Messages in AquaticLife group.

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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45382	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45383	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45384	From: Janis	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Tetre has bloat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45385	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45386	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45387	From: Katie	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45389	From: harry perry	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: What do you think?.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45390	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45392	From: harry perry	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?./O.K.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45393	From: Dayne	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45394	From: dmelton2@gmail.com	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45395	From: harry perry	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?./Deb
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45397	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45398	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45399	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45400	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45401	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45402	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45403	From: Dayne	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Lightbulb research
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45404	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45407	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions and (NEW) Humidity
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45408	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions and (NEW) Humidity
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45409	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45410	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45411	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45412	From: littlemamakt	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45413	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45416	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45418	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45419	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45420	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45421	From: harry perry	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?/Lumens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45422	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45423	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45424	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions and (NEW) Humidity
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45425	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45426	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?/Lumens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45427	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions and (NEW) Humidity
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45428	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45429	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45430	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?/Lumens
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45431	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45432	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Snails, Round Two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Snails, Round Two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45434	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45435	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Snails, Round Two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45436	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: New Goldfish Variety?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45438	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45439	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45441	From: cbhardison	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45442	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45444	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Learn to discern the bad advice from the good!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45445	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45446	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Learn to discern the bad advice from the good!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45447	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: mumble-grumble Calcium Sulfate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45449	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45450	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Learn to discern the bad advice from the good!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45451	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45452	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Snails, Round Two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45453	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45454	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45455	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45456	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45457	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Snails, Round Two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45458	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45459	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45460	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45461	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45462	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45463	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45464	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45465	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45466	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45467	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45468	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45469	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45470	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45471	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45472	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...30 - 35gal in mind
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45473	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45474	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45475	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...30 - 35gal in mind
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45476	From: Colby	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45477	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...30 - 35gal in mind
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45479	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45480	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45481	From: redlips152003	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Need Help- New to this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45482	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45483	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Help- New to this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45484	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Help- New to this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45485	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Help- New to this
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45486	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Clicking sound from heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45487	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Clicking sound from heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45488	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Clicking sound from heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Clicking sound from heater
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45490	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Another Question About Brass Wire
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45491	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Malaysian Trumpet Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45492	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Another Question About Brass Wire
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45493	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Another Question About Brass Wire
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45495	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45496	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Let There Be Light!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45497	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Milwaukee Digital Light Meter with Submersible Probe, $65
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45498	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45499	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Let There Be Light!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45500	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: A Tale of Two Flagella
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Let There Be Light!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45502	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Another Question About Brass Wire
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45503	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45505	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45506	From: amejia1976	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45507	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45508	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45509	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45511	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45514	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45515	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45516	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45517	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45518	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45520	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45521	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45522	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45523	From: Nicole	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45524	From: Wendie	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45525	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45526	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45527	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45528	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45529	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45530	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45531	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45533	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45534	From: harry perry	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45535	From: Lisa	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: NOT HAPPY!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45536	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: NOT HAPPY!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45537	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45538	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45539	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45540	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45542	From: pam andress	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45543	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45544	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45545	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45546	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45547	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45548	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45549	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45550	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45551	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45552	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45553	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45554	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45555	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45556	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Cory grab bag
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45557	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45558	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45559	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45560	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45561	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45562	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45564	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45565	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45566	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45567	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45568	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45569	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45570	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45571	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45572	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45573	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45575	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45576	From: harry perry	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45577	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45578	From: harry perry	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45579	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45580	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45581	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45584	From: harry perry	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45585	From: Lisa	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: The tank move is looming over me now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45587	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45589	From: Nicole	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45590	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: The tank move is looming over me now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45591	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45592	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: The tank move is looming over me now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45593	From: young.souls	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45594	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Cory's spawned
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45595	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Live Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45596	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45598	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45599	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45600	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45602	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45603	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45604	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45605	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45607	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45608	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45609	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45610	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45612	From: johnd	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Old school power filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45613	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Old school power filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Old school power filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45615	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45616	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45617	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45618	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Paradise fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Paradise fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45621	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45622	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45623	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45624	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45625	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45626	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45627	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45628	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45629	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45630	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45631	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45632	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45633	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45634	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45635	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45636	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45637	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45638	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45639	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45640	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: A Fish Tale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45641	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45642	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45643	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45644	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: A Fish Tale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45645	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Paradise fish/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45646	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Discus Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45647	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45648	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45649	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: A Fish Tale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45650	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45651	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45652	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: A Fish Tale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45654	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45655	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45656	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45657	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45658	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45659	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45660	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45661	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45662	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45664	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45665	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45666	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Paradise fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45667	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45668	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45669	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45670	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45671	From: William M	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45672	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45673	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45674	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45675	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45676	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45677	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45678	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45679	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Amber's Fish Wholesaler Biz (was: Re: Fish Profiles)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45680	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: One new fish didn't make it :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45681	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Amber's Fish Wholesaler Biz
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45682	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45683	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45684	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45686	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: WELL CRAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45687	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45688	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45689	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45690	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45691	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45692	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45693	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45694	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45695	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45696	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45697	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45698	From: dumasjohnj@netscape.net	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Container that hangs on tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45700	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45701	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45702	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45703	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45704	From: William M	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45705	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45706	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45707	From: William M	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45708	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45709	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45710	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45711	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45712	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45713	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45714	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45715	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Fw: Re: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45716	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45717	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45720	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45722	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45723	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45724	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45725	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45726	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45727	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45728	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45729	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45730	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45731	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45732	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: A couple tanks in Florida if you are in the area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45733	From: mymooser	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: New to Marine Life
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45734	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45735	From: harry perry	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts /Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45737	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: A couple tanks in Florida if you are in the area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45738	From: Noura	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45739	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45740	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45741	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45742	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45743	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45744	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45745	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45747	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45748	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45749	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: On the subject of HOB sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45750	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45751	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Gastromyzon Scitilus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45752	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Gastromyzon Scitilus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45753	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45754	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Gastromyzon Scitilus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45755	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45756	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45758	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45759	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Gastromyzon Scitilus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45760	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Purigen
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45762	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45763	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45764	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45765	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45766	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45767	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Gastromyzon Scitilus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45769	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45770	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45771	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45772	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45773	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45775	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45776	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Help with ram eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45777	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Charity auctions etc. RE: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45778	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45779	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45780	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45782	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45784	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45785	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45786	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45787	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45788	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45789	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45790	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45791	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45793	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45794	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45795	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45797	From: William M	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45798	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45799	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45800	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45801	From: pam andress	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45802	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Paradise fish/Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45803	From: harry perry	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45804	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45805	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45806	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45807	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45808	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45810	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45811	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45812	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45813	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45814	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45816	From: Angela Robinson	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45817	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45819	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Stop the rant guys. Back on topic please.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45820	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Spreadsheet--stocking aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45821	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45822	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45823	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45824	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: anyone want to tell me about Mystery Snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45825	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45826	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45827	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45828	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45829	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45830	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45831	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45832	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45833	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45834	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45835	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45836	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45837	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45838	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45839	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45840	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45841	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45842	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45844	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45845	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45846	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OT Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45847	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OT Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45848	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45849	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Stop the rant guys. Back on topic please.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45850	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45851	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45852	From: harry perry	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45853	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45854	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Stop the rant guys. Back on topic please.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45855	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45856	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45857	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45858	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45859	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Spreadsheet--stocking aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45860	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45861	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Black and Gold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45862	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Black and Gold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45863	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45864	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Black and Gold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45866	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45867	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: anyone want to tell me about Mystery Snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45868	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45869	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45870	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45871	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45872	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45873	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Update on the new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45875	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45876	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: more wiggling news
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45877	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Black and Gold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45878	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45879	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45880	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45881	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45882	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45883	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45884	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45885	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45886	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45887	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45888	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45889	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45890	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45891	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45892	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45893	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45894	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45895	From: William M	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45896	From: William M	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45897	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45898	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45899	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Update on the new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45900	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: more wiggling news
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45901	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45902	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45904	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45905	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45906	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45908	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45909	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45911	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: more wiggling news
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45912	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45913	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45914	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45916	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45917	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45918	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45919	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45920	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45921	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45922	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45923	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45925	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45927	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45928	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Ram wiggler developments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45929	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45930	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45931	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram wiggler developments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45932	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45933	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45934	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45935	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45936	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45937	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45938	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45939	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45940	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45941	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45942	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45943	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45944	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45945	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45946	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45947	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45948	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45949	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45950	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45951	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45952	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Water softeners kill plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45953	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Water softeners kill plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45954	From: Lisa	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45955	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45957	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45958	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45959	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45960	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45961	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45962	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45963	From: Lisa	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45965	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Some Fishy Cartoons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45966	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Mystery snails/ Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45967	From: walkswithshelties	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45968	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45971	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45972	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45973	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45974	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45975	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45976	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45977	From: john Lewis	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45978	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45980	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45981	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45982	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45983	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45984	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45985	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45986	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45987	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45989	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45990	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45991	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45992	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45993	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45994	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45997	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45998	From: walkswithshelties	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45999	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46000	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46001	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46002	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46004	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46005	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Gastromyzon socializing pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46006	From: jvpfish@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Fw: Koi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46007	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46008	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46009	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Cory behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46010	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46011	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46012	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46013	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46014	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46015	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46016	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46017	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46018	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46019	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: DIY CO2 for large tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46021	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Fw: Koi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46023	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46025	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46026	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46027	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46028	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46031	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46032	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: For Ray - wiggler question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46033	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46034	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46035	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46036	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46037	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46038	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46039	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46040	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46041	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46042	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46043	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46044	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46046	From: Lisa	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46047	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46048	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46049	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46050	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46051	From: jvpfish@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Koi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46052	From: Lisa	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46053	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Koi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46055	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46057	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46058	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46059	From: Noura	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Corys aiming High!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46060	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46061	From: johnd	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Siphon type
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46062	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Siphon type
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46063	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Siphon type
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46064	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46065	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46066	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46067	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Yelp: Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46068	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46069	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46070	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46071	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: hillstream loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46072	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Siphon type
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46073	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: More for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46074	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46075	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46076	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46077	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46078	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46080	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46082	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46083	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46084	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46085	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46087	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: They're launched
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46088	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46089	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46090	From: Noura	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46091	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46094	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46095	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46096	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46097	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46098	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46099	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46100	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46101	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46102	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46103	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46104	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Yikes!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46105	From: harry perry	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yikes!/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46106	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yikes!/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46107	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46108	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46109	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46110	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46111	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Aquaponics (was: Hydroponics)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46112	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46113	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46114	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46115	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Five day old ram picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46116	From: harry perry	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Five day old ram picture/Your picture
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46117	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46118	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yikes!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46119	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46120	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yikes!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46121	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46122	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46123	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: More questions for Ray (SORRY)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46124	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46125	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Still Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46126	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Still Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46128	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46129	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46130	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46131	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46132	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46133	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46134	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46135	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46136	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46137	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46138	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46139	From: greychildren	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: omg im a new dad!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46140	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46141	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46142	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46143	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46144	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46147	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46148	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46149	From: john Lewis	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: They
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46150	From: Noura	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Still Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46151	From: dumasjohnj@netscape.net	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Siphon type 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46152	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Siphon type 2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46154	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46155	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46156	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46158	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46159	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46160	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46161	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Still Aquaponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46162	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46163	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46164	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46165	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: FW: WIN a $250.00 Aquarium Package!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46166	From: pam andress	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: FW: WIN a $250.00 Aquarium Package!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46167	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46168	From: William M	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46169	From: amejia1976	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Water Parameters...finally
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46170	From: noura_taweel	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46171	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46173	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46174	From: amejia1976	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46175	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46176	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46177	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46178	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46179	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46183	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46184	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46185	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46186	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46187	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46189	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46190	From: noura_taweel	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46191	From: noura_taweel	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46192	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Ram fry question for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46193	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46194	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry question for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46195	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46196	From: Noura	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46197	From: Noura	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry question for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46198	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46199	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46200	From: Noura	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46201	From: pam andress	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46202	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry question for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46203	From: Noura	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry question for Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46205	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46206	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46208	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46209	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46210	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46213	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46214	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46216	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46217	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46218	From: Noura	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46219	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46220	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Fish Hatchery Visit: Ray?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46221	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Pothos Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46222	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46223	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46224	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Hatchery Visit: Ray?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46225	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46226	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: They're Plant Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46227	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Hatchery Visit: Ray?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46228	From: harry perry	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: They're Plant Tanks/Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46229	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46230	From: Noura	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46231	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46232	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46233	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46234	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46235	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46236	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46237	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46239	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46240	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46241	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46242	From: john Lewis	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46243	From: noura_taweel	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys - Photos provided
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys - Photos provided
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46247	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46249	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46250	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46252	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46253	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46257	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46258	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46259	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: FW: Coming Soon: NEW Aquarium & Pond Supply Superstore!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46262	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: OT: FEDEx to China
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46263	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46264	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46265	From: William M	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46267	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46268	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46269	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46271	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Yahoo Mail/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Yahoo Mail/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46273	From: yesjess2001	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: female betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46274	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: female betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46275	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46277	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46278	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46279	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46280	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46281	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46282	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46283	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46284	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46285	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46287	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46288	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46290	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46291	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46292	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46293	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46294	From: harry perry	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46295	From: amejia1976	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46297	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46300	From: bluefish1955	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Speaking of worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46301	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46302	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46304	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46305	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46307	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46308	From: William M	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46309	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46310	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: So Lainey, where's the baby update? ;)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46311	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46312	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46313	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Ray - here is my last update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46314	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46315	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46316	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46317	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46318	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46319	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46320	From: harry perry	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46321	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46322	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46323	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46324	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46325	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46326	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46327	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46328	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46329	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46330	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46331	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46332	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46333	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46334	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ray - here is my last update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46335	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46336	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46337	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46338	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46339	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46340	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46341	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46342	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46343	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46344	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46345	From: mattyobones	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46346	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46347	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46348	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46349	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46350	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46351	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46353	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46354	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46358	From: harry perry	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish./Shipping fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46359	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46360	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: /Cost of fish./Shipping fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46361	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46362	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46363	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish./Shipping fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46364	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46366	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46367	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46368	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46369	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46371	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46372	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46373	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46374	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46375	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Injury on cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46376	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Injury on cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46377	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46378	From: Noura	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Fish Foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46379	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46380	From: calvinator@verizon.net	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: new member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46381	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: new member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46382	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46383	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: new member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46384	From: Noura	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Plants jumping in?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46385	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46386	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: About Shipping?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46387	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46388	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46389	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46390	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46391	From: harry perry	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46392	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46393	From: harry perry	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46394	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46395	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46396	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46397	From: Noura	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46398	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46399	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46401	From: Noura	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46402	From: Noura	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46403	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46405	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46407	From: Avin Deen	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Rosy Barbs in a planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46408	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46409	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46411	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46412	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: WOW! Re: About Shipping?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46413	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46414	From: Noura	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46415	From: William M	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46416	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: OT: Lawmaker wants to ban "Ex-Lax" fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46418	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: FW: Practical Fishkeeping is back online - and on mobile
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46419	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46420	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46421	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46422	From: Noura	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Plant Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46423	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Fish Caught Evolving
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46424	From: Lisa	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Clearing up space
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46425	From: CherylE	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46426	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46427	From: pam andress	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46428	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46429	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46430	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46431	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: 3 week old ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46432	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Profiles
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46435	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46436	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46437	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46438	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46439	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46440	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46441	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46442	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46444	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46447	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46449	From: noura_taweel	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: 3 week old ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46450	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46451	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46452	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 2/5/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46453	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Questions on new tank for ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46454	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: LED lights from Marineland
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46455	From: environmom95112	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Power Compact light parts needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46456	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46457	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46458	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Home made sinking pellets
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46459	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46460	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: LED lights from Marineland
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46461	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46462	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: LED lights from Marineland
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46463	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: LED lights from Marineland
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: LED lights from Marineland
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46465	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46466	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Power Compact light parts needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46467	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46468	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46469	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46470	From: environmom95112	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46471	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46472	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46473	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Winner for Superbowl----SAINTS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46474	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46475	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46476	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Winter Storms And Power Outages
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Winner for Superbowl----SAINTS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46479	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46480	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46481	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46482	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46483	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46484	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46485	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46486	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46487	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46488	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46490	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46491	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46493	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46494	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46495	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46496	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46498	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46499	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46501	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46502	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46503	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46504	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46505	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46506	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46507	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46508	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46509	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46510	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46511	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46512	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46513	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46514	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46516	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46517	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46518	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46520	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46521	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46522	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46523	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46524	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46525	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46527	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46528	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Bill
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46529	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46530	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46531	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46532	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46533	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46535	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46536	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46537	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46538	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46539	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46540	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46541	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46542	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46544	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46545	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46548	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46549	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46550	From: Debra Melton	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46551	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Uptate on ram babies 6:30pm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46552	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46553	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46554	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46555	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Uptate on ram babies 6:30pm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46556	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Heater Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46557	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46558	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46561	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Uptate on ram babies 6:30pm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46565	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46566	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46567	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46568	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46569	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Uptate on ram babies 6:30pm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46570	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46571	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46572	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46575	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46576	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46577	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46578	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46579	From: harry perry	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46580	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46581	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46582	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46585	From: Mark Hough	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46586	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46587	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46588	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46589	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46590	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46591	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Alcohol WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46592	From: harry perry	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: For Lenny/Alcohol, the perfect food.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46593	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: For Lenny/Alcohol, the perfect food.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: For Lenny/Alcohol, the perfect food.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46598	From: harry perry	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46599	From: Joseph	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Red top zebra holding - now what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46600	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Alcohol WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46601	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra holding - now what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46602	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46603	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re; An interesting fish you'll never keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46604	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46605	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra holding - now what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46606	From: Joseph	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra holding - now what?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46607	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46608	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46609	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46611	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46612	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46613	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46615	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46616	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46617	From: Lisa	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: My sick swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46618	From: Joseph	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46619	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46620	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46621	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46622	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46623	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46624	From: Joseph	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46625	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46626	From: Noura	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46627	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46628	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46629	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46631	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46632	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46633	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France - NOW: MORE SUPER BOWL PARAD
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46635	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46636	From: harry perry	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46637	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46638	From: harry perry	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish/Steve, my suggestion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46639	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46640	From: Joseph	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46641	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Ram babies four weeks old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46642	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46643	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46644	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46645	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46646	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46647	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46648	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46649	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46650	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46651	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46652	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46654	From: Lisa	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46655	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46657	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46658	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46659	From: Noura	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46660	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46661	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46662	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46663	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46664	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46667	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46668	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46669	From: jimpat101	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Top tank support broke....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46671	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: Top tank support broke....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46673	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: Top tank support broke....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46674	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46675	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: OT: TinyURL [WAS RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46676	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46677	From: harry perry	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46678	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: TinyURL [WAS RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46679	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46681	From: Joseph	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46682	From: Joseph	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Mold growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: Mold growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46684	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46685	From: Joseph	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46686	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46687	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46688	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46689	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46690	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46691	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46692	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Mold growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46693	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46694	From: Joseph	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46695	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re, re my sick swordtail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46696	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46697	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46698	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46699	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46700	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46701	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46702	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46703	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46704	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46705	From: Joseph	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46706	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46707	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46708	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46709	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46710	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46711	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46712	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46713	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46714	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46716	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46717	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46718	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46719	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46721	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: What lives in a Cubic Foot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46722	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46723	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46724	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46725	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Proposed Times Square Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46726	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46727	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46728	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46729	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46730	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46732	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46733	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46735	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46737	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46738	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46739	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46740	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46741	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46742	From: Joseph	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again - Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46743	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater fo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46744	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46745	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46747	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46748	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again - Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46749	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46750	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46751	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46752	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46753	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46754	From: bruce cohen	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46755	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46756	From: pam andress	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46757	From: pam andress	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46758	From: pam andress	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46759	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46760	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46761	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46762	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46763	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: MTS and green hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46764	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46765	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46766	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46769	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: into and question on crabs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46770	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46771	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46772	From: William M	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46773	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Rams in 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46774	From: William M	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46775	From: harry perry	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46776	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46777	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46779	From: Christine	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46780	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46782	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46783	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46785	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46787	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46788	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46789	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46790	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46791	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46792	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46795	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46797	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46798	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46799	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46800	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46801	From: Christine	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46802	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46803	From: Christine	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46805	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46807	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46809	From: Christine	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46810	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46811	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46812	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46813	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46814	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46815	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: update on snail hatching
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46816	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46817	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46818	From: ker11306	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46819	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46820	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: The babies love daphnia!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46821	From: lioctopi1116	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46822	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46823	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46824	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46825	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46826	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46827	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46828	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: The babies love daphnia!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46829	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: The babies love daphnia!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46830	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46831	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46833	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: The babies love daphnia!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46834	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46835	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46836	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46838	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46839	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: surprise finding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46840	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46843	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46844	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46845	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46847	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46848	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46849	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/18/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46850	From: environmom95112	Date: 2/18/2010
Subject: Where to get compact fluorescent sockets?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46851	From: environmom95112	Date: 2/18/2010
Subject: Update on planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46852	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2010
Subject: Re: Update on planted tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/19/2010
Subject: Re: Where to get compact fluorescent sockets?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46854	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Rams in 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46855	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46856	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46857	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46858	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: OT: Aquarium Escape Artist
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46859	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: The Blob Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Re: The Blob Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46861	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: The Blob Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46862	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Soccer Player Buys Big Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46863	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: The Blob Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: The Blob Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46865	From: jimpat101	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46866	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46867	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Soccer Player Buys Big Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46868	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46869	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Soccer Player Buys Big Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46870	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Soccer Player Buys Big Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46871	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46872	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46874	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46875	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46876	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46878	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46879	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46881	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Aquarium Staff Feed Piranha with Chain Mail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46882	From: Jerry14	Date: 2/22/2010
Subject: Broken top brace
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46884	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/23/2010
Subject: Florida Aquarium Went Down to the Keys to Access Cold Snap Coral Dam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46885	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: The Ultimate Nano Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46886	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Social Snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46887	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Alien Species Found in Africa!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Alien Species Found in Africa!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46889	From: harry perry	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Alien Species Found in Africa!/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46890	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Social Snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46891	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Alien Species Found in Africa!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Alien Species Found in Africa!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46893	From: Noura	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46895	From: Noura	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Ram fry-Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46896	From: Noura	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46897	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46898	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46899	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Social Snails?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46900	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46901	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: redone 55 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46902	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46903	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46904	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: redone 55 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46906	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: New Ram pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46907	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46908	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46909	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46910	From: Noura	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46911	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46912	From: Noura	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46913	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46914	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: redone 55 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46915	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46916	From: Noura	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46917	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: (More) cute baby pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46918	From: Noura	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: (More) cute baby pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46919	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: (More) cute baby pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46920	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46921	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46922	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: redone 55 gallon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46924	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46925	From: Noura	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46926	From: Noura	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46927	From: Noura	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46928	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Lfe) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46929	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46930	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46931	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46932	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46933	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46934	From: Melissa	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Phase 22 heat packs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46935	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46936	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46937	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46938	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46939	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Phase 22 heat packs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46940	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46942	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Amber, do you have your surfboard ready?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46943	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46944	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46945	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46946	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46947	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46948	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46949	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46951	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46952	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46953	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46954	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46955	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46956	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46957	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46958	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46960	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46961	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46962	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46963	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46966	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid- Need a quick answer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46967	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46968	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46969	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46970	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46971	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid- Need a quick answer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46972	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid- Need a quick answer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46973	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: A.Cichlids species
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46974	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46975	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46976	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: A.Cichlids species
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46978	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46979	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46980	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: It's Raining Fish In Australia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46984	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46985	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46986	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46987	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46989	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Leak at Dubai Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46990	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46991	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46992	From: Noura	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Malawi Cichlids new photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46993	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46994	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46995	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46996	From: Noura	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46998	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46999	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47000	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47001	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47002	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47004	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47006	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47007	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47010	From: Noura	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47011	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47012	From: cobra427lady	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47013	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47014	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47015	From: bill 1433	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47016	From: bill 1433	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47018	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47019	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47020	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47021	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47022	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47023	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47025	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47028	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47030	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47031	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47032	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47033	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Chevy Fish Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: Chevy Fish Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: Chevy Fish Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47036	From: Mina	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47038	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47039	From: Mark Hough	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: Chevy Fish Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47040	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: Chevy Fish Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47041	From: Mina	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47042	From: Mina	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47043	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47044	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Compact fluorescent lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47045	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Compact fluorescent lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47046	From: Noura	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47047	From: Noura	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47048	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Compact fluorescent lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47049	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47050	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47051	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47052	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47053	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47055	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47056	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47059	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47060	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47061	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47062	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47063	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47064	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47065	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47066	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47067	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47068	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47069	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47070	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47071	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47073	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47075	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47076	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47077	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47078	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47079	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47080	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47081	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47082	From: Debra Melton	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47083	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: First Breeding of the Dwarf Cuttlefish in North America Announced
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47084	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Rain Fish in Australia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47085	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47086	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47087	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Rain Fish in Australia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47088	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47089	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Dubai Aquarium Leak Fixed/Explained
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47090	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Scales of Justice: In Zurich, Even Fish Have a Lawyer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47091	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Rain Fish in Australia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47092	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47093	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47094	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47095	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47096	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47097	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47098	From: melindas	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Hello!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47099	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47100	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47101	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: high fin banded shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47102	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47103	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: high fin banded shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47104	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47105	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47106	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47107	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47109	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47111	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47112	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47113	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47114	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Badis Badis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47115	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47116	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47117	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47118	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Badis Badis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47119	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Badis Badis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47120	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Badis Badis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47122	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47123	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47124	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Badis Badis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47125	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47126	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47127	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47128	From: Debra Melton	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47129	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47130	From: Noura	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47132	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47133	From: Noura	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47134	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47135	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47137	From: bruce cohen	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47138	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47139	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47140	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47141	From: avinvasion	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47142	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47143	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47144	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47145	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Africans food question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47146	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: MTS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47148	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47149	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47150	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47151	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47152	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: MTS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47153	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47154	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Marineland Stealth heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47155	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47156	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: MTS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47159	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47160	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47161	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47162	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47163	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47164	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47165	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47166	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47167	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Fungus again?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47168	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47169	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47170	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47171	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! Fire-Belly Toads
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! Fire-Belly Toads
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47173	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47174	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! Fire-Belly Toads
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47176	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47177	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47178	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47179	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47180	From: hamrad45	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47181	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47182	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47183	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47184	From: Noura	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47185	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47186	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47187	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms/Dearest GoldLenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47188	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47189	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47190	From: dmelton2@gmail.com	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47191	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms/Dearest GoldLenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47192	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47193	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47194	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47195	From: Noura	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Africans food question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47197	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47198	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Africans food question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47199	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47200	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47201	From: Noura	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47202	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47203	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Africans food question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47204	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms/Dearest GoldLenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47205	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47206	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47207	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47208	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47209	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Where Do Your Fish Come From?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47210	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: MTS Can Be a Serious Ailment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47211	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47212	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47213	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: MTS Can Be a Serious Ailment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47214	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Where Do Your Fish Come From?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47216	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47217	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47218	From: bkmat62	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47219	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47220	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47221	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47223	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47224	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47225	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47226	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47227	From: Noura	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Africans food question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47228	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47229	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47230	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47231	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47232	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47233	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47234	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Hybrids... So I was watching The Tonight Show just now...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47237	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47239	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47240	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47242	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47245	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47246	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47247	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47249	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47250	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hybrids... So I was watching The Tonight Show just now...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47253	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47254	From: bill 1433	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47255	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47256	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47257	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47259	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47260	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47262	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47263	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47264	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47265	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Home made foods/live foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Home made foods/live foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47267	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Home made foods/live foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47268	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47269	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Home made foods/live foods
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47270	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: 31 Aquariums From Wow to WTF!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47271	From: walkswithshelties	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Arowana Mystery
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47272	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47273	From: Joseph	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Red top zebra fry update - and other questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47275	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra fry update - and other questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47276	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra fry update - and other questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47278	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47279	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47280	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47281	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47283	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47285	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47286	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47287	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47288	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47290	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47291	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47292	From: William M	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47294	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47295	From: William M	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47296	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47297	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47299	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47300	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47301	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47303	From: Noura	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47304	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47305	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47306	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47307	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47308	From: Noura	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47310	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47311	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47312	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47313	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47314	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47315	From: William M	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47316	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47317	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47318	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47319	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47320	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47321	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47322	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47323	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47324	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47325	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47326	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47327	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47328	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47329	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47330	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47331	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47333	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47334	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47335	From: Capt. Bruce Nelson	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: animals and death
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47336	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47337	From: Noura	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47338	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47339	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: animals and death
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47340	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47341	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47342	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47343	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47344	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47345	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47346	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47348	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47349	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47350	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47351	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47352	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47353	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47354	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47355	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47356	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47359	From: Noura	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47360	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47361	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47362	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47363	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47367	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47368	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47369	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: help - about non-native fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47370	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47371	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: help - about non-native fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47373	From: harry perry	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47374	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47376	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47377	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47379	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47380	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47381	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47382	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47383	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47384	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: help - about non-native fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47385	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: help - about non-native fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47386	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47389	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47390	From: Noura	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47391	From: jimpat101	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47394	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47395	From: Noura	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47397	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47400	From: Noura	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47401	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47402	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47403	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47404	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47405	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47407	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47408	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47409	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47410	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47411	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47412	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47413	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47416	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47418	From: Noura	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47420	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47421	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47422	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47423	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47424	From: Noura	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47425	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47426	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47427	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47428	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47429	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47430	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47431	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Lumpers vs Splitters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47432	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Lumpers vs Splitters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Lumpers vs Splitters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Lumpers vs Splitters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47435	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47436	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47437	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47438	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47439	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47440	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47441	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47442	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: CAE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47443	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47444	From: Noura	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47445	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47446	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47447	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47448	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47449	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Footnote on ram parents
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47450	From: bill 1433	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Footnote on ram parents
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47451	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Footnote on ram parents
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Footnote on ram parents
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47453	From: jamesjoy000@att.net	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: pacific blue / regal tang
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47454	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47455	From: William M	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47456	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47457	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Cool Idea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Cool Idea
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47459	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47460	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47461	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47462	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47463	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47465	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47466	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Live food experiment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47467	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47468	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47470	From: Noura	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47471	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47472	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47473	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47474	From: Noura	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47475	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Thanks for all the input
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47476	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47477	From: Mina	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47478	From: William M	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47479	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47480	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47481	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47482	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47483	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47484	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47486	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47487	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47488	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47489	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47490	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47491	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47492	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47493	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Albino Frog question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47496	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47498	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47499	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47500	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47501	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47502	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47503	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47505	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47506	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47507	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47508	From: Mina	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47509	From: Mina	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47511	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47512	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47513	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47514	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47515	From: William M	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47516	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47517	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47518	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47520	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Cloudy water and testing results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47521	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47522	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47523	From: William M	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47524	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47525	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47526	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Are they compatible?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47527	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Are they compatible?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47528	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Are they compatible?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47529	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47530	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47531	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Are they compatible?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47532	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47533	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: 75 Gallon Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47534	From: William M	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47535	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47536	From: bluefish1955	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Dragon Fish - reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47537	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47538	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47539	From: Mina	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47540	From: Mina	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: found my fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47541	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47542	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: 75 Gallon Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47544	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Are they compatible?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47545	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47547	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47548	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47549	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47550	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47552	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47553	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Stocking Info / Suggestion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47554	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Stocking Info / Suggestion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47555	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: 24 hour water test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: 24 hour water test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47557	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47558	From: Mina	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47561	From: Mina	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47562	From: Noura	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47564	From: harry perry	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47565	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: 24 hour water test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47566	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47567	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: 24 hour water test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47568	From: harry perry	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47569	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47570	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47571	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47572	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: microworm culture "fragrance" OK?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47574	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: 24 hour water test results
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47575	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47576	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47577	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47578	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47579	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47581	From: Noura	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: The Tetra War
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47582	From: Noura	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47583	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47584	From: harry perry	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: OT/Lenny/again/polar bears ?????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47585	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47586	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: OT/Lenny/again/polar bears ?????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47587	From: jamesjoy000@att.net	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: microworm culture "fragrance" OK?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47589	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: OT/Lenny/again/polar bears ?????
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47590	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47591	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47592	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Can I clean the algae?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47593	From: Noura	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47594	From: Noura	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47595	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: Can I clean the algae?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47596	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: Can I clean the algae?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47598	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47599	From: Mike Whitfield	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out i
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47600	From: Noura	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47601	From: Noura	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47602	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47603	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47604	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out i
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47605	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: Conditioner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47606	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Aquarium Fire
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47607	From: hank	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47608	From: hank voss	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47609	From: Noura	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47610	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: neon tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Re: neon tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47612	From: hank	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47613	From: Noura	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Aquarium Magic Trick and more
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47615	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Magic Trick and more
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47616	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Loner Glo Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47617	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47618	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47619	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47620	From: William M	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47621	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47622	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47623	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Ammonia/nitrite spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47624	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Ammonia/nitrite spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47625	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Ammonia/nitrite spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47626	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Ammonia/nitrite spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47627	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/1/2010
Subject: What Happened to AquaticLife Today?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/1/2010
Subject: Re: What Happened to AquaticLife Today?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47629	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Nitrite Nitirate high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47631	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47632	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47633	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47634	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47636	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47637	From: Noura	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47638	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47639	From: Noura	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47640	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47641	From: northernlace1979	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: 55 gallon aquarium for sale
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47642	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47643	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47644	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47645	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47646	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47647	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47649	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47650	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47651	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47652	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47653	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47654	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47655	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47656	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47657	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question/ Dora & Lenny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47658	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47659	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47660	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47662	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47663	From: melindas	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: I think my new fish is sick....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47664	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47665	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47666	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47667	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47668	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47669	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Lenny & Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47670	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47671	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: I think my new fish is sick....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47674	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47675	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47676	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47677	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47678	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47679	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47680	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47681	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47682	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47684	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Lenny & Dora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47685	From: Noura	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47686	From: Noura	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47687	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47688	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47689	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47690	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47691	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47692	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47693	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47694	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47695	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47696	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47697	From: Noura	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47698	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Shopping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47699	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47700	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Shopping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47701	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47702	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47703	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Shopping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47705	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47707	From: Noura	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47708	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Shopping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47709	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Heterandria Fungus frustration
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47710	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47711	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47712	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47713	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47715	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47716	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47717	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47718	From: jimpat101	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: My 72 gal. bow front problems are back,,,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47719	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47720	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: My 72 gal. bow front problems are back,,,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47721	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: My 72 gal. bow front problems are back,,,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47722	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Baby rams in new homes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47723	From: Noura	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Baby rams in new homes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47724	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Baby rams in new homes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47726	From: bruce cohen	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47727	From: Noura	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47728	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47729	From: Noura	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47730	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47732	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Heterandria fungus update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47733	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47734	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47735	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47736	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47737	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47738	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47739	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47740	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47741	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47742	From: melindas	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Aquarium salt question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47743	From: William M	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47744	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47745	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47746	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47747	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47748	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47749	From: Noura	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47750	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47751	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47752	From: Noura	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47753	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47754	From: melindas	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47755	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Search Manual Online
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47756	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47757	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47758	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47759	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47761	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47762	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47763	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47764	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47766	From: Noura	Date: 4/9/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47767	From: missygreen81	Date: 4/9/2010
Subject: which fish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47768	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2010
Subject: Re: which fish??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47769	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47770	From: melindas	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47771	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47772	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47773	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47775	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47776	From: melindas	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47777	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47778	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: Ick
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: UPS Back-up power
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47780	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47781	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47782	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47783	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47784	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47785	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47786	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47787	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47789	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47790	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: sponge filter not getting dirty
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: sponge filter not getting dirty
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47792	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Minor emergency:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47793	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: sponge filter not getting dirty
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47794	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: sponge filter not getting dirty
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47795	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47797	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47798	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47799	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47800	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47801	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47802	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47803	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Dechlor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47805	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Dechlor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47806	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47807	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47808	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47809	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47810	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47811	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47812	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47813	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47814	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Dechlor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Dechlor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47816	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47817	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Dechlor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47818	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: sponge filter not getting dirty
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47819	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47820	From: melindas	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Sad Day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47821	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47822	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47823	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47824	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47825	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47826	From: melindas	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47827	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47828	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: sponge filter not getting dirty
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47829	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47830	From: William M	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47831	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47834	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47835	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47836	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47837	From: Jade	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47838	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47839	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47840	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47841	From: Jade	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47843	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: I did the HP treatment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47844	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47845	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47846	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47848	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47849	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47850	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47853	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47854	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47855	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47856	From: Jade	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47858	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47859	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47860	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47861	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47862	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: National Aquarium Gets a Facelift
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47863	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47864	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47865	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47866	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47867	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47868	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Good news
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47869	From: Jade	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47870	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: Good news
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47871	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47872	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47873	From: melindas	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Drift Wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drift Wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47875	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drift Wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47876	From: melindas	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Drift Wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47877	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Drift Wood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47878	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47879	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47880	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47881	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47882	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47884	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47885	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47886	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47887	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 4/21/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47889	From: jalee	Date: 4/21/2010
Subject: stringy poop
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47890	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2010
Subject: Re: stringy poop
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47891	From: melindas	Date: 4/22/2010
Subject: Why do I still have Ich?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/22/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47893	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47894	From: Noura	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: TUMOR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47895	From: melindas	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47896	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47897	From: K Boyle	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47900	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47901	From: Noura	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47903	From: Noura	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47904	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47905	From: Noura	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47906	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: OT: PDF Search Engine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47907	From: wdbowerman	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: compatable
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47908	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: Re: compatable
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47909	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: Re: compatable
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47911	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: 15 Tanks in 80 Square Feet
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47912	From: Noura	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47913	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47914	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47915	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: For The Ladies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47916	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47917	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: For The Ladies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47918	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: For The Ladies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47919	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: For The Ladies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47920	From: Noura	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47921	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: For The Ladies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47922	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47923	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47924	From: Noura	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47925	From: Noura	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47927	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47928	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47929	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47930	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47931	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47932	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47933	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Feeding heterandria fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47934	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47935	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47936	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47937	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47938	From: Noura	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47939	From: Noura	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47940	From: Noura	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: My DIY aquarium caves
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47941	From: William M	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47942	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47943	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47944	From: William M	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47945	From: Avin Deen	Date: 4/27/2010
Subject: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47946	From: Noura	Date: 4/27/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47947	From: avinvasion	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47948	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47949	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47951	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47952	From: avinvasion	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47953	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47954	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47955	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47957	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47958	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47960	From: Thomas S	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: spawning siblings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47961	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: spawning siblings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47962	From: Wendie	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: spawning siblings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47963	From: mattyobones	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47964	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47965	From: melindas	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Tiles as substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Tiles as substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47967	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: New tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47968	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47969	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Tiles as substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: New tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47971	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: spawning siblings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47972	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: New tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47973	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: New tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47974	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: OT: Friday Funny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47975	From: melindas	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Tiles as substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47976	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: OT: Friday Funny
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Tiles as substrate
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47978	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: New tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47979	From: avinvasion	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47980	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47982	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47983	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47984	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47985	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47986	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47990	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47991	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47992	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47993	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Aquatic Plants and the Nitrogen Cycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47994	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: [Practical Fishkeeping] Can Fish Be Vaccinated Against Whitespot?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47995	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47996	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: [Practical Fishkeeping] Can Fish Be Vaccinated Against Whitespot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47998	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: [Practical Fishkeeping] Can Fish Be Vaccinated Against Whitespot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47999	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Planted tank guide
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48000	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Planted tank guide
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48001	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48002	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Planted tank guide
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48003	From: Stephanie	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: new member intro & filter system question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48004	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: new member intro & filter system question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48005	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/3/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48006	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 5/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48008	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48009	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48010	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48011	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48012	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48014	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48015	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48016	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48017	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48018	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Lighting information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48019	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48021	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48023	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/7/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48025	From: Noura	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48027	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48028	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48029	From: Noura	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48031	From: Duke Jason Griffiths of ShadowHyrst	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48032	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48033	From: Noura	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48035	From: Duke Jason Griffiths of ShadowHyrst	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48036	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48037	From: Noura	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48038	From: Noura	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48039	From: Noura	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48040	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48041	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48042	From: William M	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48043	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48044	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48046	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48047	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48048	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48049	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48050	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48051	From: ARINDAM	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48052	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48053	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48054	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48055	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48058	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48059	From: Noura	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48060	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48061	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48062	From: Noura	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Guppies update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48063	From: environmom95112	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Dario female photo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48064	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Re: Dario female photo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48065	From: environmom95112	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Re: Dario female photo
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48066	From: Noura	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48067	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48068	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/13/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48069	From: PrairieSpirit	Date: 5/13/2010
Subject: Items to trade...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48070	From: greychildren	Date: 5/13/2010
Subject: Fish for trade not sales
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48071	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Yeast and CO2 Reactors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48072	From: Janis	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Wants to know
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48073	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Re: Yeast and CO2 Reactors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Re: Wants to know
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48075	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Re: Wants to know
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Re: Wants to know
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48077	From: Noura	Date: 5/17/2010
Subject: Cichlid Engineer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48078	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/17/2010
Subject: Re: Cichlid Engineer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48079	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2010
Subject: Re: Cichlid Engineer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48080	From: Noura	Date: 5/18/2010
Subject: Re: Cichlid Engineer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48081	From: Dustin	Date: 5/18/2010
Subject: BTA eviscerating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48082	From: Dustin	Date: 5/18/2010
Subject: BTA eviscerating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48083	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: BTA eviscerating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48084	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: BTA eviscerating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48085	From: Ray	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: BTA eviscerating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48086	From: jamesjoy000@att.net	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: BTA eviscerating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48087	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48088	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48089	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Plant Fertilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48090	From: Lisa	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Fertilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48094	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48095	From: Lisa	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48096	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48097	From: Ray	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48098	From: Ray	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Fertilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48099	From: Ray	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48100	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48101	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48102	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48103	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48104	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Fertilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48105	From: Jon	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Hi everyone ( new member here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48106	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48107	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48109	From: jaiko	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48111	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48112	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48113	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48114	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48115	From: jaiko	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48116	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48117	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48118	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48119	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Fertilizer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48120	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hi everyone ( new member here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48122	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48123	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hi everyone ( new member here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48124	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48125	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: Hi everyone ( new member here)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48126	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48127	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48128	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48129	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48130	From: Noura	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48131	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48132	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48134	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48135	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48137	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48138	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Breeding scarlet badis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48139	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding scarlet badis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48140	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding scarlet badis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48141	From: Ray	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding scarlet badis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48142	From: greychildren	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: New Pictures added
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48143	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Pictures added
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48144	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Labyrinth Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Pictures added
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Labyrinth Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48147	From: jaiko	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Pictures added
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48148	From: jaiko	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Pictures added
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48149	From: Noura	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48150	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48151	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48152	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Labyrinth Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48153	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Labyrinth Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Labyrinth Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48155	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48156	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Question:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48157	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Question:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48158	From: jaiko	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Question:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48159	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Question:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48160	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: New Plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48161	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: New Plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48162	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48163	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Question:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48164	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: New Plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48166	From: AquaticLife	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Off Topic ~ 20% Off Entire Store - Ends Today
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48167	From: Thomas Silva	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Off Topic ~ 20% Off Entire Store - Ends Today
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48168	From: Noura	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48169	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48170	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48171	From: Ray	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48172	From: Ray	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48174	From: Noura	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48176	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Euthanasia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48177	From: Noura	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48178	From: David S	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48179	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48180	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48181	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48182	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48183	From: Ray	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48184	From: Noura	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48185	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48186	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48187	From: David S	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48188	From: Clint Walker	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48189	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48190	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48191	From: greychildren	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48192	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48193	From: ackieuk2000	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: turtle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: turtle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48195	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48196	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48197	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48198	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48199	From: jaiko	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48200	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48201	From: jaiko	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48202	From: jaiko	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48203	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48205	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48206	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: ATT: Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48207	From: jaiko	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48208	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48209	From: ackieuk2000	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: turtle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48210	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: turtle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48212	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48213	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48214	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: turtle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48215	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48216	From: jaiko	Date: 5/27/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48217	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Guppy fry missing it's tailfins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy fry missing it's tailfins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48219	From: greychildren	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48220	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48221	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Lois MacGeachey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48223	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48224	From: caroline cormier	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: green water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48225	From: harry perry	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: green water/Caroline
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48226	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48228	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Moving a plant from one tank to another
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48229	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48230	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48231	From: jaiko	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48232	From: Mary Carpenter	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48233	From: David S	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48234	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48235	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48236	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a plant from one tank to another
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48239	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a plant from one tank to another
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48240	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48241	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48242	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48245	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48247	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48248	From: pam andress	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48249	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48250	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re, Guppy with no tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Re, Guppy with no tail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/31/2010
Subject: FW: Monday May 31, 2010: Reference.com On This Day - Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Fish Talk Radio Stations (Internet)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48254	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48256	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48257	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48258	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48259	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Photo problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48260	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: Photo problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: Photo problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48262	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: Photo problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48263	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: Photo problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48264	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48265	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Heterandria formosa available NC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48266	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48267	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48268	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48269	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48270	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48271	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48272	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48273	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48274	From: PrairieSpirit	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48275	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48276	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48278	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48279	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48280	From: PrairieSpirit	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48281	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48282	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Brine shrimp problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48283	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48284	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48286	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48287	From: Ray	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48288	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48289	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48290	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48291	From: William M	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48292	From: Ray	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48293	From: jamesjoy000@att.net	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48295	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Prior emails archived?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Prior emails archived?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48297	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48298	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48299	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48300	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48301	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48302	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48303	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48304	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48305	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48306	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48307	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48308	From: Rowing Julie	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: New Inhabitant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48309	From: Ray	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48310	From: William M	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48311	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48312	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48313	From: Ray	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48315	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48316	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48317	From: Ray	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48318	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48319	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48320	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48323	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48324	From: melindas	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Fungus help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48325	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48326	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48327	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48328	From: melindas	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48329	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48330	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Planted Tanks Contest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48331	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48333	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Planted Tanks Contest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48334	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48335	From: Ray	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Planted Tanks Contest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48336	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2010
Subject: Re: Planted Tanks Contest
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48337	From: Ray	Date: 6/7/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48338	From: jimpat101	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48339	From: diogenes3	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: White patches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: White patches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48342	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48343	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48344	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48345	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48346	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48348	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48349	From: greychildren	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48350	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48351	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48352	From: will davison	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48353	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Dr. Tims One and Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48354	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims One and Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48355	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims One and Only
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48356	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2010
Subject: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48358	From: Ray	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48359	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48360	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48362	From: hank	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48363	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48364	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48365	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48366	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48367	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48368	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48369	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48371	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48372	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2010
Subject: A baby! (yes just one that I can see so far).
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48379	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48382	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48383	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48384	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48387	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48390	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Moving a big ol' Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a big ol' Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48394	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Moving a big ol' Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48395	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a big ol' Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a big ol' Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48397	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48398	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 6/16/2010
Subject: A couple of questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48403	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2010
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48405	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 6/16/2010
Subject: A couple of questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48456	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 6/17/2010
Subject: Power Outage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48457	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/17/2010
Subject: Re: Power Outage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/17/2010
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48470	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/17/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48486	From: Ldyminx	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Fresh water aquascaping - best website for ideas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48489	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48490	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48500	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48502	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48506	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48507	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48508	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Prices Then and Now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48511	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48513	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48514	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48516	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: baby aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48517	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48518	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48519	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48520	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48521	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48522	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48523	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48524	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Breeding licorice gouramis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48525	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48544	From: skwirrley2	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48549	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48561	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48563	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48564	From: shrlycat	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Okay, here's a non-oil issue for ya - cory cats and a convict cichli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48569	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48573	From: skwirrley2	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48575	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48576	From: dmctjc	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48577	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48590	From: shrlycat	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48591	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48592	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48593	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48595	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Another dive spot for Mike "Deneerz" - The Great Blue Hole Of Belize
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48599	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48600	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48601	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48602	From: shrlycat	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: More info re cichlid convict and corys in same tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48603	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48604	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48605	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: More info re cichlid convict and corys in same tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48606	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48607	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48608	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Fish Can Photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48609	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Can Photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Can Photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48611	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Can Photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48612	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Can Photos
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48613	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48614	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Alien Invasion: Asian Carp Breach Great Lakes Barrier
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48615	From: graham turner	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48616	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48617	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48618	From: john Lewis	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48619	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: general question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48620	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48622	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48623	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48624	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48625	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48626	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48627	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48628	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48629	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48632	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48633	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48636	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48637	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Whale Shark Records from the United Arab Emirates between 1989-2009
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48638	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48639	From: diana_brooksnj	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: killer fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48640	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: killer fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48641	From: Prince	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: killer fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48642	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: killer fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: killer fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48644	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48645	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48646	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: FW: AHHS: Discus Question by Alan Fletcher
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48647	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48648	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: ID Gallon/Size of Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48649	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48650	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48651	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: ID Gallon/Size of Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48652	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48653	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48654	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48655	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: ID Gallon/Size of Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48656	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48657	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48658	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48659	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48660	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48661	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48662	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48664	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48665	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48666	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48667	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/30/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48668	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48669	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: San Francisco Bay Area "Planted Aquariums for Dummies 101" July 9th
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48670	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: San Francisco Bay Area Killifish Association, 7/17 ~ BBQ picnic in t
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48671	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Sacramento Aquarium Society, 7/3 "First Annual SAS Fuzzy Fish Contes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48672	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: ? SFBAAPS Meetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48673	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society, July 3rd ~ Rosario LaCorte on Chara
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48674	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Hello Northern California
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48675	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Benthic Marine Algae and Kings of Camouflage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48676	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society, July 3rd ~ Rosario LaCorte on C
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48677	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society, July 3rd ~ Rosario LaCorte on C
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48678	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: ? SFBAAPS Meetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48679	From: Joseph	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Markers on aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Markers on aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48681	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Markers on aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48682	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Markers on aquariums?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48683	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Pineconing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48684	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Pineconing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48685	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Pineconing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48686	From: Grace	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: ? SFBAAPS Meetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48687	From: Grace	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association PCCA, 7-10 7PM San Jose, CA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48688	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: 10 hideously ugly fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48689	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: 10 hideously ugly fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48690	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Festival of Fishkeeping -- UK
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48691	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Little Tiny Bits?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48692	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48693	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48694	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: 10 hideously ugly fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48695	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48696	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48697	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48698	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48700	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Happy 4th of July!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48701	From: harry perry	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Urgent requst for help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48702	From: john Lewis	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Re: Urgent requst for help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48703	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Re: Urgent requst for help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48704	From: Deb	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48705	From: harry perry	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Re: Urgent requst for help/Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48706	From: harry perry	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Re: Urgent requst for help/John
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48707	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48708	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48709	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Ready for fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48710	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48711	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48712	From: harry perry	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48713	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48714	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48715	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48716	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48717	From: William M	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: San Francisco Bay Area "Planted Aquariums for Dummies 101" July
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48718	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: July 9th, San Francisco Aquarium Society "Planted Aquariums for Dumm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48719	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48721	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48722	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48723	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48724	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48725	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48726	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready for fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48727	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: San Francisco Bay Area "Planted Aquariums for Dummies 101" July
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48728	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48729	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48730	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48731	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ready for fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48732	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48733	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48734	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ready for fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48735	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Evolution: Dreampond revisited
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48736	From: harry perry	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS/Lainey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48737	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ready for fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48738	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/8/2010
Subject: Evolution: Dreampond revisited : Nature News
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48739	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: 20-year census of Lake Tanganyika fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48740	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Large Home Tanks WAS: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48741	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Re: Large Home Tanks WAS: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48742	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: San Jose CA, 7-10 7PM, Pacific Coast Cichlid Association PCCA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48743	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: New England Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48744	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48745	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48746	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48747	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: FW: Water Quality Monitoring Aquaculture Twilight Meeting and Tour a
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48748	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48749	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48750	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48751	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48752	From: Noura	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Brown Filter Media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48753	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48754	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48755	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48756	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48757	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/16/2010
Subject: Study officially documents seahorse trade
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48758	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/17/2010
Subject: Pistol Shrimp: The Crustacean that Packs an Explosive Punch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48760	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/18/2010
Subject: Win a FREE iPad from Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48761	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/18/2010
Subject: Endangered, Threatened or Extinct Species
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48762	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2010
Subject: Re: Endangered, Threatened or Extinct Species
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48763	From: Noura	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48764	From: sirreginaldoftheblade	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Questions with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48765	From: olesonjo	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: fancy goldfish color change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48766	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Re: fancy goldfish color change
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48767	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Re: Questions with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48768	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Re: Questions with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48769	From: caroline cormier	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Aqueon Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48770	From: EM	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Re: Aqueon Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48771	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Re: Questions with New Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48772	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Re: Aqueon Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48773	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Beginner Planted Tank ( was - Re: Questions with New Tank)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48774	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Re: Aqueon Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48775	From: Noura	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48776	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48777	From: joaniee2003@yahoo.com	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48778	From: EM	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48779	From: EM	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48780	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48781	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48782	From: EM	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48783	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48784	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48785	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48786	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48787	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48788	From: caroline cormier	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: bio wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48789	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: bio wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48790	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48791	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48792	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48793	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48794	From: harry perry	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48795	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators/To Beverly and all
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48796	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48797	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48798	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48799	From: Dax Gorham	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: bio wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48800	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: bio wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48801	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48802	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: bio wheel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48803	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48804	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Giant fishes to appear in TV series
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48805	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: The world's most disgusting aquatic creatures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48806	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48807	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48808	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48809	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48810	From: Ray	Date: 7/25/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48811	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/25/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48812	From: Larry	Date: 7/25/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48813	From: Larry	Date: 7/26/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48814	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/27/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48815	From: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/27/2010
Subject: Moderators, Members List, Polls & Groups Labs Applications
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48816	From: anil abraham	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48817	From: ccdogpark@yahoo.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48818	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48819	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators, Members List, Polls & Groups Labs Applications
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48820	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators, Members List, Polls & Groups Labs Applications
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48821	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48822	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48823	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: San Jose California Fwd: [SVAS] August 7 meeting Dr. Tim Hovanec
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48824	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48825	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48826	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48827	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48828	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48829	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48830	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48831	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48832	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48833	From: JenniferP	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48834	From: harry perry	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48835	From: Dax Gorham	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48836	From: jaiko	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48837	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48838	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48839	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48841	From: april	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: live in Alabama and water test show our water is full of petroleum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48842	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48843	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: shipping out of country
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48844	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: Re: live in Alabama and water test show our water is full of petrole
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48845	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48846	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48847	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48848	From: James (Jim) Darlack	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Lots of tanks, and accessories for sale {Sterling, VA}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48849	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48850	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Re: Lots of tanks, and accessories for sale {Sterling, VA}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48851	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: UK: World's largest captive jellyfish on display
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: MARINE: Vodka Dosing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48853	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: Re: Lots of tanks, and accessories for sale {Sterling, VA}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48854	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48855	From: alambiet	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: Gourami with a sore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48856	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48857	From: Beast	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48858	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: 12 Bizarre Sexual Practices of Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48859	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48860	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: John Ciotti's "Upside Down Reef" nano tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48861	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48863	From: alambiet	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48864	From: alambiet	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48865	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48867	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48868	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48869	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48870	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48871	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48872	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48873	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48874	From: john Lewis	Date: 8/3/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48875	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/3/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48876	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/3/2010
Subject: {Off Topic} Register for Aquademics and one of your students could w
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48877	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/3/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48878	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Pictures of Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48879	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48880	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48881	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48882	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48883	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48884	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48885	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48886	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Poe's growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48887	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: Poe's growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48888	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48889	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: Poe's growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48890	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48891	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: Poe's growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48892	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48893	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48894	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48895	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48896	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48897	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48898	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48899	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48900	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48901	From: EM	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48902	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48903	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48904	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48905	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48906	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48907	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48908	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48909	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48910	From: Kiersten M	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48911	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48912	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48913	From: ariesstarfire.blue@yahoo.com	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48914	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Aquavista Unveils the World's First Clock Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48915	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48916	From: ariesstarfire.blue@yahoo.com	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48918	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Tomorrow, Saturday evening. Re: [AquaticLife] Tonight @ SVAS ~ San
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48920	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Tonight 8/6 Amano Style ~ San Francisco Aquarium Society @ S.F. CA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48921	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Dropsy {was ~ Re: Pineconing}
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48922	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Sacramento Aquarium Society, 8/7 Anthony Tu - "Keeping the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48923	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: 8/14 Pacific Coast Cichlid Association (PCCA), San Jose, CA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48924	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: 8/21 San Francisco Bay Area Killifish Association (BAKA) S.J. CA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48925	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Annual National NANFA Convention & Desert Conservation Fieldtrip (DS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48926	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: 8/20/10 IBC International Fall Show hosted by California Betta Socie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48927	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: 2010 AGA Aquatic Gardeners Convention, November 11-14, 2010, Fort La
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48928	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: 11th Annual AGA International Aquascaping Contest *Closing date is
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48931	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: MTS and electrical (over)load
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48932	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48933	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48934	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48935	From: EM	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48936	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Dublin CA ~ Koi Sitter Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48937	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: Dublin CA ~ Koi Sitter Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48938	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48939	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: Dublin CA ~ Koi Sitter Needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48940	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Tonight, Saturday 8/7 @ San Jose CA, Dr. Tim Hovanec (SVAS)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48941	From: Ray	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48942	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48943	From: Aaron Martin	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Posting Problems
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48944	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Census of Marine Life inventory released
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48945	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Problem solver: Nuisance algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48946	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Re: Problem solver: Nuisance algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48947	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: 2010 IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society, Waln
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48948	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Re: Problem solver: Nuisance algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48949	From: harry perry	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Nuisan Algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48950	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Tonight, 8/8 the San Diego Tropical Fish Society ~ Keeping Healthy F
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48951	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/9/2010
Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association (PCCA) San Jose CA, 8/14/2010, 7:3
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48952	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48953	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48954	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48955	From: Ray	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48956	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48957	From: Ray	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48958	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48959	From: Ray	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48960	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48961	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48962	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48963	From: Ray	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48964	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48965	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48966	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48967	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48968	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48969	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48970	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: HI: Maui County Council Ordinance Curbs Reef Extraction for Aquariu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48971	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies (NEC) Summer Auction - Cromw
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48972	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: 8/21& 22 ~ Warren, Ohio ~ YATFS "Whale of a Show"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48973	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: 9/3-5/10 ~ MACNA XXII ~ Orlando, FL
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48974	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: Chloramines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48975	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: Re: Chloramines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48976	From: Ray	Date: 8/14/2010
Subject: Re: Chloramines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48977	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/14/2010
Subject: Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies (NEC) Summer Auction ~ Cromw
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48978	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/14/2010
Subject: Viet Nam: Is it the end for the Mekong giant catfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48979	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/16/2010
Subject: FW: Tatnuck Pet has a Birthday!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48980	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society CBS, Walnu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48981	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Re: Chloramines
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48982	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48983	From: Ray	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48984	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48985	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: AqAdvisor.com
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48986	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: FL: Exotic fish at Pier go belly up after electrical problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48987	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Pet Fish Talk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48988	From: Ray	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48989	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society CBS, Walnu
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48990	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Re: Shipping question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48991	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Youngstown Area Tropical Fish Society (YATFS) WHALE of a SHOW ~ Warr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48992	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Anubias Design Open House
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48993	From: Brenda	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Blue and gold gourami bred
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48994	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Re: Blue and gold gourami bred
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48995	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48996	From: Ray	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Blue and gold gourami bred
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48997	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48998	From: Ray	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48999	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49000	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49001	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49002	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Youngstown Area Tropical Fish Society (YATFS) WHALE of a SHOW ~ Warr
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49003	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49004	From: Donna Camp	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49005	From: Ray	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49006	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49007	From: Eldred	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Just got abroad...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49008	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49009	From: Donna Camp	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49010	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49011	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Just got abroad...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49012	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49013	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49014	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49015	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Substrate for breeding tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49016	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49017	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49018	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49019	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49020	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49021	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: 22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49022	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49023	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49024	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49025	From: Lisa	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49026	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49027	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49028	From: William M	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Danios?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49029	From: Ray	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49030	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: 22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49031	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49032	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Seashine from Stray Light is the first commercially available LIFI p
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49034	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Seashine from Stray Light is the first commercially available LI
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49035	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Aquarium Inspiration : 70 Pictures of Decorative Fish Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49036	From: Ray	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49037	From: john Lewis	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Just got abroad...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Animal Rights Activists Focusing on Aquarium Hobby
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49039	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Novelty Aquariums as Part of the Decor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49040	From: JenniferP	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49041	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: FW: AACC10 Update, 8/13/10
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49042	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues/Hi Jennifer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49043	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49044	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: injured Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49045	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49046	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49047	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49048	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49049	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49050	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49051	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: 22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49052	From: Ray	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49053	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49054	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues/Hi Jennifer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49055	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49056	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49057	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49058	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49059	From: Ray	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49060	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish/again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49061	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49062	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49063	From: Ray	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49064	From: William M	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49065	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49066	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49068	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49069	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49070	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49071	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49072	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49073	From: Ray	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49074	From: Ray	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49075	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Just got abroad...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49076	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49077	From: EM	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49078	From: pickering	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: sick axolotl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49079	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49080	From: Noura	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49081	From: Ray	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49082	From: Ray	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49083	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49084	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49085	From: harry perry	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl/Ray /Joey
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49086	From: dogear1973	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49087	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49088	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49089	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49090	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49091	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49092	From: Noura	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49093	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49094	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49095	From: Lisa	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Danios
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49096	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2010
Subject: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49097	From: Ray	Date: 8/26/2010
Subject: Re: Danios
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49098	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/27/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49099	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/27/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49100	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49101	From: Noura	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49102	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49103	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Dr. Surgeonfish, You are needed in the OR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49104	From: William M	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49106	From: Aquatic Life	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Oops, my bad
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49107	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49108	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Sticklebacks evolve cold tolerance in three generations
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49109	From: Ray	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49110	From: JenniferP	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49111	From: 708804	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49112	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49113	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49114	From: animallover1861	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: NEW TO THE GROUP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49115	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49116	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49117	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49118	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49119	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49120	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Dr. Surgeonfish, You are needed in the OR
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49121	From: Animal Lover	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49122	From: Ray	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49123	From: Ray	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49124	From: Ray	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49125	From: Noura	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49126	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49127	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49128	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49129	From: Ray	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49130	From: Neal Robbins	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: FossilFish Link Added to Links Section
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49131	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49133	From: Aquatic Life	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: {Off Topic} Yahoo! Groups will get a face-lift!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49135	From: greychildren	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: new youtube channel open
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49136	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: new youtube channel open
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49137	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49138	From: jaiko	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: new youtube channel open
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49139	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 9/2/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49140	From: Ray	Date: 9/2/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49141	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 9/2/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49142	From: Ray	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49143	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49144	From: caroline cormier	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49145	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49146	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49147	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49148	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49149	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49150	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49151	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49152	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49153	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49154	From: Ray	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49155	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49156	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49157	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49158	From: harry perry	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49159	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49160	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths/Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49161	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49162	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49163	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49164	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49165	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49166	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49167	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49168	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49169	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49170	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49171	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49172	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49173	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49174	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49175	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49176	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49177	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49178	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Slight emergency question:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49179	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Slight emergency question:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49180	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Slight emergency question:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49181	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Slight emergency question:)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49182	From: oplc_faceter	Date: 9/7/2010
Subject: Tannins, Black Water, pH...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49183	From: Aaron Martin	Date: 9/7/2010
Subject: {Off Topic} Migration to NEW Yahoo! Groups Begins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49184	From: Ray	Date: 9/7/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49185	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49186	From: greychildren	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49187	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49188	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49189	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49190	From: barb_okla@att.net	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49191	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49192	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49193	From: john Lewis	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49194	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49195	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Bloated Gold fish in pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49196	From: William M	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49197	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49198	From: Ray	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49199	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49200	From: Ray	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49201	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Circus fish act inhumane: watchdog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49202	From: Ray	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49203	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49204	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49205	From: Ray	Date: 9/9/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49206	From: William M	Date: 9/9/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49207	From: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/10/2010
Subject: Preview the improved Yahoo! Groups
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49208	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/11/2010
Subject: NZ: Quake: Hero saved his fish after 'tidal waves' in tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49209	From: rachaelsimone30	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49210	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49211	From: Ricardo Estrada	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49212	From: rachaelsimone30	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49213	From: William M	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49214	From: Rachael M	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49215	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49216	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49217	From: Ray	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49218	From: Ray	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49219	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49220	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49221	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49222	From: Ray	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49223	From: suemfrancis	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Goldfish care in winter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49224	From: William M	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish care in winter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49225	From: barbokla	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49226	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish care in winter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49228	From: suemfrancis	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: Yellow Guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49229	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49230	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49231	From: rachaelsimone30	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49232	From: pam andress	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49233	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49234	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49235	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49236	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: VA: Smuggled Snails: Another Strange Find by U.S. Customs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49237	From: athreya	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Gold fishes & Mollies ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: Gold fishes & Mollies ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49239	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: Gold fishes & Mollies ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49240	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: Gold fishes & Mollies ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49241	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: Gold fishes & Mollies ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49242	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Japan's Frozen Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49243	From: pam andress	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49244	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/23/2010
Subject: Article on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49245	From: Wendie	Date: 9/23/2010
Subject: Re: Article on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49246	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/23/2010
Subject: Re: Article on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49247	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49248	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49249	From: john Lewis	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49251	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49253	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49254	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49255	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49256	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Axelrod and no it is not politics.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49257	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49258	From: john Lewis	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49259	From: shrlycat	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49260	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49261	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: FL: Cash prizes for catching lionfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49262	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49263	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49264	From: shrlycat	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49265	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Just thought I'd let you folks know
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49266	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/26/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49267	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/26/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49268	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/26/2010
Subject: Re: Just thought I'd let you folks know
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49269	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/26/2010
Subject: Wood eating catfish, Amazon river
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49270	From: helenwatson39	Date: 9/27/2010
Subject: for sale large plec
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49271	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/28/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49272	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/28/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49273	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 9/28/2010
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49274	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/28/2010
Subject: Re: Pet shop worker
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49276	From: Aaron	Date: 9/29/2010
Subject: LFS Employees (Unite! I know you're out there)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49277	From: shrlycat	Date: 9/30/2010
Subject: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49278	From: Ray	Date: 10/1/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49279	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 10/1/2010
Subject: Re: LFS Employees (Unite! I know you're out there)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49280	From: shrlycat	Date: 10/1/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49281	From: Ray	Date: 10/1/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49282	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49283	From: shrlycat	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49284	From: shrlycat	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49285	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49286	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49287	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49288	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2010
Subject: Thieves Steal Fish From Waikiki Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49289	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/3/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49290	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/4/2010
Subject: FW: 4th Annual WWKC Virtual Koi & Goldfish Show
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: NEC News and Events
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49292	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: North Jersey Aquarium Society Aquatic Weekend 2010
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49293	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Danbury Area Aquarium Society 25th Auction Fall 2010
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49294	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Boston Aquarium Society Annual Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49295	From: mae746	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Cuban tree frog
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49296	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Considering a new canister filter for purchase
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49297	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2010
Subject: Aquarium Test Kits Article
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49298	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2010
Subject: New study into fish schooling behaviour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49299	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2010
Subject: African butterflyfish hides genetic surprise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49300	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/10/2010
Subject: New species of pike cichlid described
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49301	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/10/2010
Subject: New Cichlid Tank Coming Together
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49302	From: Neal Robbins	Date: 10/10/2010
Subject: Link to Dinosaur Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49303	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49304	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49305	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49306	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49307	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49308	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49309	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49310	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49311	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49312	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 10/12/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49313	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/12/2010
Subject: Not So Purple After All
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49314	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not So Purple After All
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49315	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not So Purple After All
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49316	From: haecklers	Date: 10/13/2010
Subject: New Member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49317	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not So Purple After All
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49318	From: haecklers	Date: 10/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not So Purple After All
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49319	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2010
Subject: Census of Marine Life Completed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49320	From: Linda Spaulding	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: Hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49321	From: Bren Linny	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: im new what a perfect group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49322	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: Re: Hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49323	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: Re: im new what a perfect group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49324	From: john Lewis	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: Re: im new what a perfect group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49325	From: Leeann	Date: 10/19/2010
Subject: new member intro to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49326	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2010
Subject: Re: new member intro to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49327	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/19/2010
Subject: Re: new member intro to group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49328	From: LindaS	Date: 10/20/2010
Subject: Thanks for the welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49329	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/20/2010
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49330	From: haecklers	Date: 10/21/2010
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49331	From: LindaS	Date: 10/22/2010
Subject: pond with multiple fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49332	From: haecklers	Date: 10/24/2010
Subject: Re: pond with multiple fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49333	From: haecklers	Date: 10/24/2010
Subject: What to do with late-maturing froglets?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49334	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 10/24/2010
Subject: Re: What to do with late-maturing froglets?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49335	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49336	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49337	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49338	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: What to do with late-maturing froglets?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49339	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49340	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: What to do with late-maturing froglets?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49341	From: Bren Linny	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions/dwarf a.frogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49342	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49343	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49344	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/26/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49345	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49346	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49347	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49348	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49349	From: William M	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49350	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49351	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49352	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49353	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49354	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49355	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49356	From: haecklers	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions - bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49357	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49358	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49359	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions - bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49360	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49361	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49362	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49363	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49364	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49365	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49366	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49367	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49368	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49369	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49370	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49371	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49372	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49373	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49374	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49375	From: William M	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49376	From: john Lewis	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49377	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49378	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49379	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Breeder for etta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49380	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49381	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49382	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49383	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49384	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49385	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49386	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49387	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49388	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49389	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49390	From: haecklers	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49391	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49392	From: LindaS	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49393	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: BAS Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49394	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: NEC Convention Info--Mark Your Calendars
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49395	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Tropical Fish Club of Burlington (VT)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49396	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: East Coast Cichlids (NJ) Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49397	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49398	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49399	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Taxonomic Database Online
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49400	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: East Coast Cichlids (NJ) Auction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49401	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Taxonomic Database Online
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49402	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49403	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49404	From: john Lewis	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49406	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49407	From: LindaS	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49408	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49409	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49410	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49411	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49412	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49413	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49414	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49415	From: Inkmaker	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49416	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: AZOO-----Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49417	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49418	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49419	From: haecklers	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49420	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49421	From: cameu vidan	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Introduction to Characins
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49422	From: LindaS	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49423	From: elijah258@sbcglobal.net	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: breeding pygmy gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49424	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49425	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: breeding pygmy gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49426	From: ScottW	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Little tiny white worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49427	From: Mike	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Strawberry crab - a new species of crab
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49428	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49429	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49430	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49431	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49432	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49433	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49434	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49435	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49436	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49437	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49438	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49439	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49440	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49441	From: Walden	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49442	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49443	From: ScottW	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49444	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49446	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49447	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49448	From: LindaS	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49449	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Birthday Reminder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49450	From: Ray	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49451	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49452	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49453	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49454	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49455	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49456	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49457	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49458	From: haecklers	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49459	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49460	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49461	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49462	From: pam andress	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49463	From: Bren Linny	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49464	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49465	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49466	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49467	From: haecklers	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49468	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49469	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49470	From: Ray	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49471	From: Ray	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49472	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49473	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49474	From: Ray	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49475	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49476	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49477	From: LindaS	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49478	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49479	From: Majd Nazari	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49480	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49481	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49482	From: haecklers	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49483	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Nerite Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49484	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49485	From: Ray	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49486	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49487	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49488	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49489	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49490	From: Ray	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49491	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49492	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49493	From: Ray	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49494	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49495	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49496	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49497	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49498	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49499	From: Bren Linny	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy!now Bren is gonna be a mom too!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49500	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49501	From: Majd Nazari	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49502	From: haecklers	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49503	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49504	From: Jason	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49505	From: Ray	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49506	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49507	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49508	From: Jason	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49509	From: William M	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49510	From: William M	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49511	From: haecklers	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49512	From: haecklers	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49513	From: Jason	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49514	From: Jason	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49515	From: haecklers	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49516	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49517	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: New betta, sharing pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49518	From: Ray	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49519	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49520	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49521	From: haecklers	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49522	From: Ray	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49523	From: Am	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: want to buy newts in malaysia
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49524	From: haecklers	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49525	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49526	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49527	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49528	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49529	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49530	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: OT: Before You Go
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49531	From: jason graves	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: Growing a Blue Lotus indoors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49532	From: haecklers	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49533	From: duffy928542002	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: Fish that eat livebearer babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49534	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49535	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49536	From: suemfrancis	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: larch needles in pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49537	From: haecklers	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49538	From: Bren Linny	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49539	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49540	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49541	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Growing a Blue Lotus indoors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49542	From: haecklers	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49543	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49544	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49545	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: larch needles in pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49546	From: haecklers	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49547	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: larch needles in pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49548	From: Rick Duffy	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49549	From: Teddy Tolley	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: fry control
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49550	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49551	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49552	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49553	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49554	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49555	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Weird Fish of the Week
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49556	From: suemfrancis	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: larch needles in pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49557	From: haecklers	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49558	From: larisha_allen	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49559	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49560	From: harry perry	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting/Low light plant list.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49561	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49562	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49563	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Weird Fish of the Week
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49564	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49565	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2010
Subject: Re: Weird Fish of the Week
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49566	From: haecklers	Date: 11/16/2010
Subject: Bristlenose v/s Cherry Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49567	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/16/2010
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49568	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49569	From: haecklers	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49570	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49571	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49572	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: BN Pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49573	From: pam andress	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Re: BN Pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49574	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49575	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49576	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49577	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: BN Pleco babies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49578	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49579	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49580	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49581	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49582	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49583	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49584	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49585	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49586	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49587	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49588	From: vickie	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: new over the side filter won't work
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49589	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: new over the side filter won't work
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49590	From: vickie	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: new over the side filter won't work
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49591	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49592	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49593	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49594	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49595	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49596	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/20/2010
Subject: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49597	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/20/2010
Subject: Weird fish of the week: Two-headed arowana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49598	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2010
Subject: Strange new seahorse has no dorsal fin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49599	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/21/2010
Subject: Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49600	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2010
Subject: Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49601	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49602	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49603	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49604	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49605	From: Bren Linny	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49606	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49607	From: haecklers	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49608	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49609	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49610	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49611	From: haecklers	Date: 11/23/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49612	From: Noura	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: AquaClear replacement question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49613	From: Ray	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49614	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49615	From: Ray	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49616	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49617	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49618	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49619	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49620	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49621	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49622	From: jaiko	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49623	From: Ray	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49624	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49625	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49626	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49627	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49628	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: What's so special about the Mangrove killifish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49629	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Weird fish of the week: Lumpsucker
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49630	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49631	From: Noura	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49632	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49633	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49635	From: Noura	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Yellow Lab investigation!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49636	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49637	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49638	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49639	From: Patrizia	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: information fish reptiles and amphibians owners
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49640	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49641	From: Noura	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49642	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49643	From: Peter Ballantyne	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: honey gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49644	From: haecklers	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: honey gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49645	From: Noura	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49646	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/29/2010
Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49647	From: Aquatic Life Group Owner	Date: 11/29/2010
Subject: Re: Questionnaire for Pets’ Owners
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49648	From: Mike	Date: 11/29/2010
Subject: Giant Goldfish – real or fake ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49649	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/29/2010
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Giant Goldfish - real or fake ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49650	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/30/2010
Subject: Re: Giant Goldfish - real or fake ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49651	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2010
Subject: Re: Giant Goldfish - real or fake ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49652	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Rant du Jour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49653	From: judith	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49654	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49655	From: haecklers	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49656	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49657	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49658	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Lumen output question for lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49659	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49660	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49661	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49662	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49663	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49664	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49665	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Where Do You Plug it In?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49666	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49667	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49668	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49669	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49670	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49671	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49672	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49673	From: haecklers	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49674	From: llmdolphin	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49675	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49676	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49677	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49678	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49679	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49680	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49681	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49682	From: llmdolphin	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49683	From: William M	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49684	From: llmdolphin	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank/pics posted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49685	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank/pics posted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49686	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank/pics posted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49687	From: llmdolphin	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank/pics posted
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49688	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Holidays In Japan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49689	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Weird Fish of the Week
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49690	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Re: Weird Fish of the Week
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49691	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Meet Our Scientist: Mike Henley, Coral Whisperer
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49692	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Two For Christmas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49693	From: Amy Monroe	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Goldfish With Tumors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49694	From: Amy Monroe	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish With Tumors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49695	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish With Tumors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49696	From: haecklers	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish With Tumors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49697	From: Dawn Moneyhan	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Tumors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49698	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Juvenile Albino aeneus cory
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49699	From: Amy Monroe	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Tumors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49700	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Tumors
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49701	From: mister_red	Date: 12/10/2010
Subject: gold mystery snail ?????s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49702	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49703	From: haecklers	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49704	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Re: gold mystery snail ?????s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49705	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Weird Fish of the Week: Giant oarfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49706	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Caught on camera: The moment a shop tank bursts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49707	From: mister_red	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: snail worries.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49708	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49709	From: Elijah Salazar	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: snail worries
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49710	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: snail worries.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49711	From: Ray	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49712	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49713	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49714	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: A New Book : Fauna Emiratus - Part One (November 2010).
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49715	From: Aquatic Life Group Owner	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: A New Book : Fauna Emiratus - Part One (November 2010).
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49716	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: A New Book : Fauna Emiratus - Part One (November 2010).
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49717	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49718	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49719	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49720	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49721	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49722	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49723	From: haecklers	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49724	From: harry perry	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49725	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49726	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49727	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49728	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49729	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49730	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49731	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49732	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49733	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49734	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49735	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49736	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49737	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49738	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49739	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49740	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49741	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49742	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49743	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49744	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49745	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/16/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49746	From: feddersenmark	Date: 12/16/2010
Subject: New member intro & water softener?s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49747	From: Ray	Date: 12/17/2010
Subject: Re: New member intro & water softener?s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49748	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/17/2010
Subject: Re: New member intro & water softener?s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49749	From: feddersenmark	Date: 12/17/2010
Subject: Re: New member intro & water softener?s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49750	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Desktop Wallpaper: The Spectacle of Underwater Photography
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49751	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Re: New member intro & water softener?s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49752	From: Aaron Martin	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49753	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49754	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49755	From: William M	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49756	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49757	From: Melani	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: (new here ) kribensis questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49758	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Weird Fish of the Week: Tripod Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49759	From: Aaron Martin	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49760	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49761	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49762	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49763	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Help xtra pregnant guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49764	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49765	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49766	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49767	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: Help xtra pregnant guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49768	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49769	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49770	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49771	From: Aquatic Life Group Owner	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49772	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49773	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49774	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: orange dwarf cray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49775	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49776	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: ID Requests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49777	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ID Requests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49778	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ID Requests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49779	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49780	From: john Lewis	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ID Requests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49781	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49782	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49784	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49785	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49786	From: haecklers	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49787	From: haecklers	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: blue marmokrebs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49788	From: William M	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49789	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ID Requests
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49790	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49791	From: Bren Linny	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: Help xtra pregnant guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49793	From: haecklers	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: Help xtra pregnant guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49794	From: Bren Linny	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: Help xtra pregnant guppy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49795	From: teddy.tolley	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: parrotfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49796	From: William M	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: parrotfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49797	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: parrotfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49798	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: parrotfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49799	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49800	From: Ray	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: parrotfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49801	From: Teddy Tolley	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: parrotfish breeding
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49802	From: judith	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49803	From: haecklers	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49804	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49805	From: haecklers	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49806	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49807	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49808	From: Ray	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49809	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49810	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49811	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49812	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Shanghai: Santa is Now Swimming With the Fishes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49814	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Sensitive to Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49815	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49816	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49817	From: haecklers	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49818	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49819	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49820	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49821	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49822	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49823	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49824	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49825	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49826	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49827	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49828	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49829	From: Ray	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49830	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49831	From: Ray	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49832	From: Ray	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49833	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Renamed: Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49834	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49835	From: William M	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49836	From: Ray	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: Renamed: Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49837	From: haecklers	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49838	From: haecklers	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49839	From: haecklers	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Water and fry question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49840	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49841	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49842	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: Renamed: Vacuuming
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49843	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49844	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/24/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49845	From: Ray	Date: 12/24/2010
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49846	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: OT: How Reindeer Fly (BBC)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49847	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Merry Christmas to all!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49848	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Weird fish of the week: Kroyer's deep-sea angler fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49849	From: john Lewis	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49850	From: anniegurl66	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: hi!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49851	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Re: hi!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49852	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Re: hi!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49853	From: haecklers	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Re: hi!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49854	From: r22scaife@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2010
Subject: Re: Weird fish of the week: Kroyer's deep-sea angler fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49855	From: Noura	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: New Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49856	From: Noura	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: Re: [*** SPAM ***] RE: New Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49857	From: anniegurl66	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49858	From: john Lewis	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: Re: hi
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49859	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49860	From: Noura	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49861	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49863	From: haecklers	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49864	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: LED Pricing Lower?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49865	From: Noura	Date: 12/30/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49866	From: Noura	Date: 12/30/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49867	From: LindaS	Date: 12/30/2010
Subject: Snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49868	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2010
Subject: Snail lights up to deter predators
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49869	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2010
Subject: Inspirational aquariums: Iwagumi set-up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49870	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2010
Subject: Weird fish of the week: Halimeda ghost pipefish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49871	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2010
Subject: How to Crochet a Coral Reef

---

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45382	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

I hope everyone had a Happy New Year's Eve! Amber, What is that snail doing? It almost looks like something a male dog might do in the middle of the living room floor to embarrass you when you have company over. LOL (Hint... George Carlin has a routine based on this dog act... something about how he'd never leave the house. LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 10:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sharing a couple cute fish pictures Resourceful little snail picture: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg I'm pretty sure this picture is of a Male, Albino Bristle Nose Pleco. Getting nice bristles so far :) http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45383	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

Snails are everywhere. LOL. That fish is very pretty, and he sure has an interesting nose! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 10:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Sharing a couple cute fish pictures Resourceful little snail picture: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg I'm pretty sure this picture is of a Male, Albino Bristle Nose Pleco. Getting nice bristles so far :) http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45384	From: Janis	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Tetre has bloat

What can I do for him Thanks 20 gal tank, I do pwc once a week I have 9 tetras in the tank..I have lost one a few months ago to the same....Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45385	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

Happy New Year -- ALL! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45386	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Tank Decor Options

Hi, All and Happy New Year! I am getting ready to decorate my 100G tall hex and have spent some time deciding on arrangements - you all know how it goes. So far I have collected and sterilized my driftwood and rocks and I do not want to plant the tank, preferring the use of plastic plants for ease of upkeep in such a deep environment. That said, I am having a hard time finding nice very tall (38"+) plastic plants (that will not cost me my first-born child) to put in and was wondering if I could use a regular hot glue gun to make my own or will any of the chemicals in the regular glue I have leach out and harm future residents? Should I spend the extra money on special aquarium glue? I ran across this web article: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_caves.php I like that he suggests using the tank sealant but that stuff stinks to high heaven LOL Guess I will go this route but value all your suggestions.....thanks in advance! Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45387	From: Katie	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> &productId=43307-75774-ESL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none mini twist.jpg I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent to? Kate [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

I'm not sure about hot glue. It may be fine but you would have to check the packaging or contact the manufacturer of the glue sticks to see what they say. You mention plastic plants but consider going with silk... they look so much more real than most plastic plants. eBay has some cheap packages of silk plants for sale. This one, http://cgi.ebay.com/10-AQUARIUM-SILK-PLANTS-FISH-TANK-GRAVEL-LOT-NEW-NICE_W0 QQitemZ350298310329QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518f6806b9 is currently bid at $10.50 for 10 silk plants (8" to 12"). If link breaks, go to eBay and search - silk aquarium plants - and you'll find that auction and others. Another search, adding "tall" to the key words, came up with one listing but it was still only 12" tall. Aquarium safe silicone works but you would have to *build* the plants outside the tank and let the silicone cure/dry for at least 24 hours (or longer.. until you can't smell that smell you don't like). There are 2-part clear epoxies that can also be used and these dry much faster (five minutes to an hour or so) but are not flexible or forgiving if you make a mistake. With silicone, you could just pull the pieces apart, roll off the old silicone and start fresh. But with the five minute type 2-part epoxy, you could hold the pieces how you want them till it solidifies so you could be more assured of what it would look like... kind of like with the hot glue (if you find some that's aquarium safe). Like that Cichlid-Forum article shows, you could glue two 12" long strands of Anacharis and other strand plants to make a long natural looking plant. Heck, I have strands of live Anacharis longer than that since it starts on one end of my 4' tank and flows up and across the tank almost to the other end. It would get even longer in my ponds. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Decor Options Hi, All and Happy New Year! I am getting ready to decorate my 100G tall hex and have spent some time deciding on arrangements - you all know how it goes. So far I have collected and sterilized my driftwood and rocks and I do not want to plant the tank, preferring the use of plastic plants for ease of upkeep in such a deep environment. That said, I am having a hard time finding nice very tall (38"+) plastic plants (that will not cost me my first-born child) to put in and was wondering if I could use a regular hot glue gun to make my own or will any of the chemicals in the regular glue I have leach out and harm future residents? Should I spend the extra money on special aquarium glue? I ran across this web article: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_caves.php I like that he suggests using the tank sealant but that stuff stinks to high heaven LOL Guess I will go this route but value all your suggestions.....thanks in advance! Cheers, Clare ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45389	From: harry perry	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: What do you think?.

I have a plant only tank. Used to propagate clippings. I took some Jobe's plant tabs broke them in half and scattered them about the 10 gal. tank. Not in the substrate. The growth in this tank is unbelievable. The growth of the Red Lotus I posted about can be measured daily. Absolutely no algae whatsoever. Of course my next step is to put the tabs in my HOB filters. Will this hurt the fish?. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45390	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would still be plenty for a 10G tank. The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. Usually a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white is too low. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75774-LBP 7T10&lpage=none Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> mini twist.jpg I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent to? Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45391	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?.

I know most people stick plant tabs/sticks down into the substrate, near the roots of the plants they want to feed, so they do not leach too fast or too much into the water column. In a plant only tank, it may not be a problem but in a tank with fish, I don't think excessive fertilizers would be very good for the fish to be *breathing* all the time. I would definitely NOT put one in my HOB filter as the fast flowing waters could cause this to leach much faster and be even more harmful to the fish and possibly even to the nitrifying bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What do you think?. I have a plant only tank. Used to propagate clippings. I took some Jobe's plant tabs broke them in half and scattered them about the 10 gal. tank. Not in the substrate. The growth in this tank is unbelievable. The growth of the Red Lotus I posted about can be measured daily. Absolutely no algae whatsoever. Of course my next step is to put the tabs in my HOB filters. Will this hurt the fish?. Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45392	From: harry perry	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?./O.K.

I felt it would be no different then adding Flourish Excel to a tank. So I should use a cheap fish to test this?. Oh no!!!! I don't believe I said that. Harry --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What do you think?. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 2:43 PM   I know most people stick plant tabs/sticks down into the substrate, near the roots of the plants they want to feed, so they do not leach too fast or too much into the water column. In a plant only tank, it may not be a problem but in a tank with fish, I don't think excessive fertilizers would be very good for the fish to be *breathing* all the time. I would definitely NOT put one in my HOB filter as the fast flowing waters could cause this to leach much faster and be even more harmful to the fish and possibly even to the nitrifying bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:36 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] What do you think?. I have a plant only tank. Used to propagate clippings. I took some Jobe's plant tabs broke them in half and scattered them about the 10 gal. tank. Not in the substrate. The growth in this tank is unbelievable. The growth of the Red Lotus I posted about can be measured daily. Absolutely no algae whatsoever. Of course my next step is to put the tabs in my HOB filters. Will this hurt the fish?. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45393	From: Dayne	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

If the watts per gallon doesn't work any more what rule has replaced it? dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2010, at 2:38 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would still be plenty for a 10G tank. The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. Usually a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white is too low. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75774-LBP 7T10&lpage=none Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> mini twist.jpg I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent to? Kate [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45394	From: dmelton2@gmail.com	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?.

Harry: I killed a bunch of fish sticking plant tabs in a canister filter! I imagine putting them in an HOB could be just as disasterous. Deb Sent from Debs iPhone On Jan 1, 2010, at 1:35 PM, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > I have a plant only tank. Used to propagate clippings. I took some > Jobe's plant tabs broke them in half and scattered them about the 10 > gal. tank. Not in the substrate. > > The growth in this tank is unbelievable. The growth of the Red Lotus > I posted about can be measured daily. Absolutely no algae whatsoever. > > Of course my next step is to put the tabs in my HOB filters. > > Will this hurt the fish?. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45395	From: harry perry	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?./Deb

Thanks for the heads up. Harry --- On Fri, 1/1/10, dmelton2@... <dmelton2@...> wrote: From: dmelton2@... <dmelton2@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What do you think?. To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 2:46 PM   Harry: I killed a bunch of fish sticking plant tabs in a canister filter! I imagine putting them in an HOB could be just as disasterous. Deb Sent from Debs iPhone On Jan 1, 2010, at 1:35 PM, harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> wrote: > I have a plant only tank. Used to propagate clippings. I took some > Jobe's plant tabs broke them in half and scattered them about the 10 > gal. tank. Not in the substrate. > > The growth in this tank is unbelievable. The growth of the Red Lotus > I posted about can be measured daily. Absolutely no algae whatsoever. > > Of course my next step is to put the tabs in my HOB filters. > > Will this hurt the fish?. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

I haven't seen one yet... and I don't think one *rule* should exist... just like the "inch per gallon" rule should never have existed. I have a blog article with a better *set* of guidelines to replace the "inch per gallon" rule. I haven't tried to work on a better set of guidelines for lighting yet but if I do not find one soon, I may have to spend a day working on a set of guidelines. I'm still learning how all of the lighting factors come into play myself. I imagine that someone might have a lumens per gallon chart as lumens are about the only constant between all of the various light bulb types... but then the K rating would also have to be factored in... or the chart could only be based on a certain Kelvin rating. In retrospect, based on what I know today, the "watts per gallon" rule is kind of like the "inch per gallon" rule... neither of them will work except for limited situations so they should never have become *rules* in the first place since they are both so limited. For example, you could have two 40W fluorescent bulbs... one could be soft-white (2,700K with 750 lumens) and the other could be daylight (6,500K with 2,250 lumens) so the second bulb would put out three times more lumens (light) in the proper Kelvin range where the first bulb would be a poor choice for a planted tank... yet they both draw 40 watts of electricity... so how could "watts per gallon" ever have been a good rule??? I don't know! Either of these bulbs, over a 10G tank, would be measured at 4 "watts per gallon" but the second bulb would probably be way too much lighting for a 10G tank (unless it was an advanced planted tank) and the first bulb might not be enough lighting and wouldn't be the proper kind (Kelvin rating) of lighting. If you want a starting point of more reading about aquarium plant lighting, start here... http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html Make sure to read the section in red, near the top, which reads... "It is important to note that Aquarium Lighting is a complex subject, and this article has both more depth information as well as some basics (in the summary recommendations), however this is a subject that simply reading one section of this article will yield incomplete information. For this reason I recommend reading the whole article (as well as links provided) for a more thorough understanding (it may take more than one reading as well)." Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dayne Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? If the watts per gallon doesn't work any more what rule has replaced it? dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2010, at 2:38 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would still be plenty for a 10G tank. The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. Usually a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white is too low. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75774-LBP 7T10&lpage=none Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> mini twist.jpg I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent to? Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45397	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

Tough to say about the hot glue. There are many different types and formulae out there, designed for different functions. I'd go with the aquarium sealant, myself, but then I'd consider some of the taller plants like jungle vallisneria, which would easily grow to the top of your tank, and then some. If you get the right species of anacharis (elodea) it will also grow in a warm water situation to reach the top of your tank and then some. One of the larger sword plants would also do you well In this situation, and they can come to dominate the tank as well, thus reducing your need for other plants <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Decor Options Hi, All and Happy New Year! I am getting ready to decorate my 100G tall hex and have spent some time deciding on arrangements - you all know how it goes. So far I have collected and sterilized my driftwood and rocks and I do not want to plant the tank, preferring the use of plastic plants for ease of upkeep in such a deep environment. That said, I am having a hard time finding nice very tall (38"+) plastic plants (that will not cost me my first-born child) to put in and was wondering if I could use a regular hot glue gun to make my own or will any of the chemicals in the regular glue I have leach out and harm future residents? Should I spend the extra money on special aquarium glue? I ran across this web article: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_caves.php I like that he suggests using the tank sealant but that stuff stinks to high heaven LOL Guess I will go this route but value all your suggestions.....thanks in advance! Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45398	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Kate, What you are looking at it's a replacement for an incandescent bulb. While this is also known as a compact fluorescent bulb, there are those that are made specifically for aquarium usage with various color temperature ratings and CRI's. There are kits to convert your current lighting system to CFLs and also a good number of light strips and hoods already made for CFLs. If you are going to use SFL lighting, my suggestion is to buy the strip to replace your current strip, or a new hood if your current light strip is built as part of the hood. Do your homework first, to make sure the lamp you wish to use is compatible with the new strip or hood. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> &productId=43307-75774-ESL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none mini twist.jpg I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent to? Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45399	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

LOL, it's using it's foot to hold a shrimp pellet in while it safely eats it (no one can try to take it away if only his/her snail mouth can reach it right? LOL). You can see the pinkish shrimp pellet in the middle of it's foot where the mouth is ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I hope everyone had a Happy New Year's Eve! > > Amber, > > What is that snail doing? It almost looks like something a male dog might > do in the middle of the living room floor to embarrass you when you have > company over. LOL (Hint... George Carlin has a routine based on this dog > act... something about how he'd never leave the house. LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 10:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sharing a couple cute fish pictures > > Resourceful little snail picture: > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg> > > I'm pretty sure this picture is of a Male, Albino Bristle Nose Pleco. > Getting nice bristles so far :) > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45400	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: What do you think?.

Having the extra fertilizer in the water column combined with the fish wastes can often cause algae blooms from what I've ran across on planted forums. Someone else may know for sure, I may have only heard rumors ;) LOL. Amber harry perry wrote: > > I have a plant only tank. Used to propagate clippings. I took some > Jobe's plant tabs broke them in half and scattered them about the 10 > gal. tank. Not in the substrate. > > The growth in this tank is unbelievable. The growth of the Red Lotus I > posted about can be measured daily. Absolutely no algae whatsoever. > > Of course my next step is to put the tabs in my HOB filters. > > Will this hurt the fish?. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45401	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Lumens and/or lux are the measurements that should really be used, not watts, since that is not an accurate measurement across the types of bulbs that are offered for sale. For instance, a 40 watt incandescent bulb produces a different amount of light (lumens) that a 40 watt fluorescent bulb does. However watts have been always been used and the argument has been that lumens are too difficult for the average person to understand. However, if you were to ask that same person what a watt is, they could not tell you, since they really do not know that either. All they know is that for a 4' long tank the fluorescent bulbs are 40 watts, and someone told them they need 1-2 watts per gallon, so they are covered with one 40 watt fluorescent, but why the heck can they not get plants to grow. If they had been told that this group of plants needs x lumens, and that group need y lumens, they still would not know what the heck a lumen is, but their plants would grow for them. Especially now that the output of the bulb, in lumens, is normally shown on the package, unlike years ago when you only knew the wattage, unless you knew someone who knew someone who could tell you the lumens output of various bulbs. Today we have Google to help us, and there are a number of good articles out there to help you understand the concepts of aquarium lighting and plants. Your assignment is to do the research, then write us an article telling us all about your findings <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dayne Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? If the watts per gallon doesn't work any more what rule has replaced it? dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2010, at 2:38 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would still be plenty for a 10G tank. The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. Usually a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white is too low. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75774-LBP 7T10&lpage=none Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> mini twist.jpg I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent to? Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45402	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Lenny, The watt per gallon rule came into existence prior to fluorescents being available, and before anyone had hear of soft white lamps or any of that do hickey stuff. What was available was the clear incandescent bulbs, which were all the same, but it may not have worked even back then, but it was carried over into our modern world with a multitude of choices for lighting options. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? I haven't seen one yet... and I don't think one *rule* should exist... just like the "inch per gallon" rule should never have existed. I have a blog article with a better *set* of guidelines to replace the "inch per gallon" rule. I haven't tried to work on a better set of guidelines for lighting yet but if I do not find one soon, I may have to spend a day working on a set of guidelines. I'm still learning how all of the lighting factors come into play myself. I imagine that someone might have a lumens per gallon chart as lumens are about the only constant between all of the various light bulb types... but then the K rating would also have to be factored in... or the chart could only be based on a certain Kelvin rating. In retrospect, based on what I know today, the "watts per gallon" rule is kind of like the "inch per gallon" rule... neither of them will work except for limited situations so they should never have become *rules* in the first place since they are both so limited. For example, you could have two 40W fluorescent bulbs... one could be soft-white (2,700K with 750 lumens) and the other could be daylight (6,500K with 2,250 lumens) so the second bulb would put out three times more lumens (light) in the proper Kelvin range where the first bulb would be a poor choice for a planted tank... yet they both draw 40 watts of electricity... so how could "watts per gallon" ever have been a good rule??? I don't know! Either of these bulbs, over a 10G tank, would be measured at 4 "watts per gallon" but the second bulb would probably be way too much lighting for a 10G tank (unless it was an advanced planted tank) and the first bulb might not be enough lighting and wouldn't be the proper kind (Kelvin rating) of lighting. If you want a starting point of more reading about aquarium plant lighting, start here... http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html Make sure to read the section in red, near the top, which reads... "It is important to note that Aquarium Lighting is a complex subject, and this article has both more depth information as well as some basics (in the summary recommendations), however this is a subject that simply reading one section of this article will yield incomplete information. For this reason I recommend reading the whole article (as well as links provided) for a more thorough understanding (it may take more than one reading as well)." Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dayne Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? If the watts per gallon doesn't work any more what rule has replaced it? dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2010, at 2:38 PM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would still be plenty for a 10G tank. The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. Usually a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white is too low. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75774-LBP 7T10&lpage=none Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> mini twist.jpg I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent to? Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45403	From: Dayne	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Lightbulb research

Your assignment is to do the research, then write us an article telling us all about your findings <g>. I respectfully decline. <VBG> I gave up ALL research jobs when I went out on disability. dayne, shadow, rasputin,and ms lincoln, https://www.armyofwomen.org/getinvolved http://adoptaussoldier.org/ http://freerice.com/index.php Sent from my iPhone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45404	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Is seems as though it should be more a a Watts per Gallon table, now with all the different types of bulbs out there. How difficult would it be for someone who understands lighting to come up with a table? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would still be plenty for a 10G tank. The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. Usually a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white is too low. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75774-LBP 7T10&lpage=none Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> mini twist.jpg I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent to? Kate ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Deb, Watts should be thrown out as a measurement for aquarium lighting. There are so many types of bulbs that such a table as you propose would reach many pages, and be a turn off for the casual aquarium keeper. Lumens would be a more accurate measurement, and a simple table would suffice, based on tank dimensions, since tanks are sold in standard dimensions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 4:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Is seems as though it should be more a a Watts per Gallon table, now with all the different types of bulbs out there. How difficult would it be for someone who understands lighting to come up with a table? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would still be plenty for a 10G tank. The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. Usually a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white is too low. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75774-LBP 7T10&lpage=none Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katie Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> mini twist.jpg I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent to? Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Sharing a couple cute fish pictures

OOH.. OK. That was gonna be my second guess. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sharing a couple cute fish pictures LOL, it's using it's foot to hold a shrimp pellet in while it safely eats it (no one can try to take it away if only his/her snail mouth can reach it right? LOL). You can see the pinkish shrimp pellet in the middle of it's foot where the mouth is ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I hope everyone had a Happy New Year's Eve! > > Amber, > > What is that snail doing? It almost looks like something a male dog > might do in the middle of the living room floor to embarrass you when > you have company over. LOL (Hint... George Carlin has a routine based > on this dog act... something about how he'd never leave the house. > LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 10:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sharing a couple cute fish pictures > > Resourceful little snail picture: > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4232986956_ba3ac46447_b.jpg> > > I'm pretty sure this picture is of a Male, Albino Bristle Nose Pleco. > Getting nice bristles so far :) > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4232216533_8c687b9390_b.jpg> > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45407	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions and (NEW) Humidity

> Kai wrote: > > OK, I'll try fresh veggies and veggie wafers. > Replying to myself... The romaine has gone untouched except by the little bitty uninvited snails. The ones I want to feed have no interest. Not much interest in the wafers either. But I digress..... It's cold and dry here and my 55g has been losing just under 2 gallons a week to evaporation. Now that I think of it, I don't remember having my annual nose bleeds last winter so the extra moisture in the air must be helping. Ha. We all know fish tanks are good for the soul. Who'da thunk it that they'd be good for the body as well!?! :o) ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45408	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions and (NEW) Humidity

Did you try any cucumber? I've heard they prefer seedless. If it makes you feel any better my 125 gallon "evaporated" about 20 gallons in one night (onto my living room floor). My eheim filter sprung a leak and hubby noticed the sound of running water so very kindly unplugged the filter, but didn't know that the siphon would continue if he didn't take the filter intake/outtake out of the tank *sigh* but that's okay the slow leak was better than the really fast leak it had before he unplugged the filter, LOL. Just a big mess to clean up now, thankfully the filter was easy to fix. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > > Kai wrote: > > > > OK, I'll try fresh veggies and veggie wafers. > > > > Replying to myself... The romaine has gone untouched except by the > little bitty uninvited snails. The ones I want to feed have no > interest. Not much interest in the wafers either. > > But I digress..... > > It's cold and dry here and my 55g has been losing just under 2 gallons > a week to evaporation. Now that I think of it, I don't remember having > my annual nose bleeds last winter so the extra moisture in the air > must be helping. > > Ha. We all know fish tanks are good for the soul. Who'da thunk it that > they'd be good for the body as well!?! :o) > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45409	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Each type of bulb has a different light output, but CFL's are different to Fluorscents and T-whatever bulbs, so basically a watts per gallon table would not work, that's what Steve and Lenny have been arguing ;) We need a different type of table NOT based on watts at all, but based on Lumen's which is the actual light output that the bulb gives off, and which is what we need to know for the different type's of plants (low/medium/high light req), instead of the 2 watts per gallon, etc. Now someone needs to make a lumen's per gallon table ;) LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > Is seems as though it should be more a a Watts per Gallon table, now > with all the different types of bulbs out there. How difficult would > it be > for someone who understands lighting to come up with a table? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable with > modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent tubes > but not > with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. > > What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The only > aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent bases > (standard > screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you have, you would NOT > want these CFL's as that would be far too much lighting. You could use the > smaller, lower wattage candelabra type CFL's or tubular CFL, which > would be > a much lower wattage but would still be plenty for a 10G tank. > > The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably 15W of > standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and if you > have > the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, then upgrading > to two > of these CFL's would triple your previous incandescent lighting and > give you > around 3 watts per gallon of standard fluorescent lighting which would > be a > decent amount of lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page > doesn't show the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look > at the > packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. > Usually > a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white is > too low. > > http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75774-LBP > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75774-LBP> > 7T10&lpage=none > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E> > SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I > need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is > equivalent > to? > > Kate > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45410	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

Clare, Don't use silk plants. Silk will rot under water. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45411	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

Thanks for responding, Steve and Lenny - appreciate the wisdom, as usual good suggestions can be found if I just take the time to ask. I am still abit shy of real plants, Steve, since I dont think my lighting is sufficient and I am not ready to buy new, but we shall see. Ususally these do-it-myself projects have a way of costing me more in the long run LOL but I sure would like to put my creative energies to good use. I am so excited about this tank and the possibilities are endless. Will snap a few pics when its done and post them :-) Thanks again! Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45412	From: littlemamakt	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Actually, I was thinking of a DIY project. Building my own hood with something like a strip light that goes over a vanity with these bulbs. My tank is 48" x 18" x 21" and I would like to have corals eventually, so i don't want to "chance" it! It's just one of many possibilities. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kate, > > What you are looking at it's a replacement for an incandescent bulb. While > this is also known as a compact fluorescent bulb, there are those that are > made specifically for aquarium usage with various color temperature ratings > and CRI's. There are kits to convert your current lighting system to CFLs > and also a good number of light strips and hoods already made for CFLs. If > you are going to use SFL lighting, my suggestion is to buy the strip to > replace your current strip, or a new hood if your current light strip is > built as part of the hood. > > Do your homework first, to make sure the lamp you wish to use is compatible > with the new strip or hood. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E > SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> &productId=43307-75774-ESL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I > need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent > to? > > Kate >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45413	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

Thanks for your input, Ray. I more interested in plastic - I have had silk in the past and they just never seem to clean up as easily as plastic. Most of the silks do look more realistic though. I think I will go down to Michaels tomorrow and look at the artifical plants in their floral section and see what I can pull together. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Clare, Don't use silk plants. Silk will rot under water. Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

As I think about this, a single table will not work. There would probably have to be five to ten guidelines (possibly with corresponding tables) since a shallow tank (12" to 16") would need less lighting (lumens) than a medium-shallow depth tank (17" to 23") which would need less than a medium-deep tank (24" to 30") and then a deep tank (over 30") would really need specialized lighting that would shine beams down into the water to penetrate the depth (LED's, Halogen, etc.). Then you would have the various grades of plants, low-light, medium-low, medium-high and high-light needs. There would have to be some kind of matrix so that a low-light plant in a shallow tank would show very low-light needs and a high light plant in a deep tank would need extra-bright penetrating/beam-type light. All other plants and tanks would fall everywhere in between these two extremes. I'm going to keep looking around and brainstorming this concept but the problem still lies in that so much of the anecdotal evidence that exists from postings by fish keepers in the various forums does not address lumens in detail so until fish keepers start posting the total lumens on their various tanks, tank dimensions and with the various plants and what works for each type of tank, and then whether it's a low-tech tank up to a high-tech tank or somewhere in between, it's going to be hard to try and figure out a simplified chart. I may do like I did with my article, "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon, Fish Killing Rule For Freshwater Aquariums", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html, and list the above info, but first I need to figure out the proper amount of lumens that folks use on their various tanks to come up with some statistical data. So Amber (and any other readers of this thread)... please give me your tank size(s) (mainly gallons and depth) and the amount of lumens (you can include type of lighting, watts, etc... but mainly lumens) and lumen-hours (how long the lights are on) that you have over that tank and how the plants are doing... presuming they are doing well and whether it's a low-tech tank (no CO2 or added nutrients) or a medium-tech or high-tech tank (these are other factors that have to do with how much lighting one will need). I'll also compile this data on my low-tech, low-light tanks and then I'll probably start to get a feel for how a set of guidelines could read for simplicity... but with all the variables, I do not see a simple chart coming out of this. If I can get it as simple as the "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon... Rule...", I'll be happy. I might also pose this project as a new thread in a couple of planted tank forums to get more feedback as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Each type of bulb has a different light output, but CFL's are different to Fluorscents and T-whatever bulbs, so basically a watts per gallon table would not work, that's what Steve and Lenny have been arguing ;) We need a different type of table NOT based on watts at all, but based on Lumen's which is the actual light output that the bulb gives off, and which is what we need to know for the different type's of plants (low/medium/high light req), instead of the 2 watts per gallon, etc. Now someone needs to make a lumen's per gallon table ;) LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > Is seems as though it should be more a a Watts per Gallon table, now > with all the different types of bulbs out there. How difficult would > it be for someone who understands lighting to come up with a table? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable > with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent > tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. > > What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The > only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent > bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you > have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much > lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type > CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would > still be plenty for a 10G tank. > > The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably > 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and > if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, > then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous > incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of > standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of > lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show > the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the > packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. > Usually > a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white > is too low. > > http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-757 > 74-LBP > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75 > 774-LBP> > 7T10&lpage=none > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-7 > 5774-E > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-7 > 5774-E> > SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how > many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it > is equivalent to? > > Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

No they don't... at least mine haven't. I've had some silk aquarium plants in my goldfish tank for many years with no problems. I'm not saying to use standard silk plants from a craft store but silk aquarium plants seem to work fine and are much better and more realistic than their plastic counterparts. Now, maybe they're called silk aquarium plants and they are actually some kind of polyester... and we know that nothing will ever kill off the leisure suit... but they were labeled as "Silk Aquarium Plants" just like the link I provided to the eBay auction. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Decor Options Clare, Don't use silk plants. Silk will rot under water. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45416	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Kate, I'm presuming you're planning a saltwater tank since you mentioned corals??? For a reef tank (that's what they call a saltwater tank with corals), you would need a LOT more lighting than provided by standard CFL's used as replacement for incandescent light bulbs. You might be able to find CFL "spot lights" which you could then screw into a vanity strip light so the bulbs spot-light down into the tank but you will also need Actinic lighting for the corals. I'm not a SW fish tank keeper so my knowledge base is just from the several articles that I've read over the years but I know that normal CFL lighting will not work by itself on a reef tank. If you are talking about a freshwater tank, then corals do not grow in freshwater... at least not the typical corals that most folks are familiar with. There may be some kind of exotic freshwater coral somewhere in the world but it's not readily available in the aquaria trade. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlemamakt Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Actually, I was thinking of a DIY project. Building my own hood with something like a strip light that goes over a vanity with these bulbs. My tank is 48" x 18" x 21" and I would like to have corals eventually, so i don't want to "chance" it! It's just one of many possibilities. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kate, > > What you are looking at it's a replacement for an incandescent bulb. > While this is also known as a compact fluorescent bulb, there are > those that are made specifically for aquarium usage with various color > temperature ratings and CRI's. There are kits to convert your current > lighting system to CFLs and also a good number of light strips and > hoods already made for CFLs. If you are going to use SFL lighting, my > suggestion is to buy the strip to replace your current strip, or a new > hood if your current light strip is built as part of the hood. > > Do your homework first, to make sure the lamp you wish to use is > compatible with the new strip or hood. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-7 > 5774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> > &productId=43307-75774-ESL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how > many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it > is equivalent to? > > Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45417	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/1/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

Oops.. I just answered this in my answer to Ray. I'm not sure that typical silk plants found at a crafts store will work in aquariums. They likely do not use the right kinds of dyes (waterproof) and possibly the silk is a lower quality (or maybe silk *aquarium* plants are actually some kind of synthetic) but look for real silk/cloth aquarium plants like the bundle on eBay that I provided a link for earlier in this thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Decor Options Thanks for your input, Ray. I more interested in plastic - I have had silk in the past and they just never seem to clean up as easily as plastic. Most of the silks do look more realistic though. I think I will go down to Michaels tomorrow and look at the artifical plants in their floral section and see what I can pull together. Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45418	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Then, you probably would want to read the article whose link I posted earlier in this discussion. It talks about lighting in the aquarium, and it does get a bit technical, but it will help you identify what kind of lighting you would need for coral (there is a section on just that), so you can plan your fixture accordingly. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html http://tinyurl.com/yhoe3hu \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlemamakt Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Actually, I was thinking of a DIY project. Building my own hood with something like a strip light that goes over a vanity with these bulbs. My tank is 48" x 18" x 21" and I would like to have corals eventually, so i don't want to "chance" it! It's just one of many possibilities. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kate, > > What you are looking at it's a replacement for an incandescent bulb. While > this is also known as a compact fluorescent bulb, there are those that are > made specifically for aquarium usage with various color temperature ratings > and CRI's. There are kits to convert your current lighting system to CFLs > and also a good number of light strips and hoods already made for CFLs. If > you are going to use SFL lighting, my suggestion is to buy the strip to > replace your current strip, or a new hood if your current light strip is > built as part of the hood. > > Do your homework first, to make sure the lamp you wish to use is compatible > with the new strip or hood. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-75774-E > SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> &productId=43307-75774-ESL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how many I > need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it is equivalent > to? > > Kate >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45419	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Lenny, Lux is the measurement you need to consider for different depths, and it is somewhat related to lumens. Lux can be measured by an instrument that the younger among us may not have any experience with at all, the old photographic standby, the light meter. Spend the day studying the article I mentioned a few times already in this discussion (I just posted the link again in my previous message) and that may help in establishing some guidelines. I am still trudging my way through the article. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? As I think about this, a single table will not work. There would probably have to be five to ten guidelines (possibly with corresponding tables) since a shallow tank (12" to 16") would need less lighting (lumens) than a medium-shallow depth tank (17" to 23") which would need less than a medium-deep tank (24" to 30") and then a deep tank (over 30") would really need specialized lighting that would shine beams down into the water to penetrate the depth (LED's, Halogen, etc.). Then you would have the various grades of plants, low-light, medium-low, medium-high and high-light needs. There would have to be some kind of matrix so that a low-light plant in a shallow tank would show very low-light needs and a high light plant in a deep tank would need extra-bright penetrating/beam-type light. All other plants and tanks would fall everywhere in between these two extremes. I'm going to keep looking around and brainstorming this concept but the problem still lies in that so much of the anecdotal evidence that exists from postings by fish keepers in the various forums does not address lumens in detail so until fish keepers start posting the total lumens on their various tanks, tank dimensions and with the various plants and what works for each type of tank, and then whether it's a low-tech tank up to a high-tech tank or somewhere in between, it's going to be hard to try and figure out a simplified chart. I may do like I did with my article, "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon, Fish Killing Rule For Freshwater Aquariums", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html, and list the above info, but first I need to figure out the proper amount of lumens that folks use on their various tanks to come up with some statistical data. So Amber (and any other readers of this thread)... please give me your tank size(s) (mainly gallons and depth) and the amount of lumens (you can include type of lighting, watts, etc... but mainly lumens) and lumen-hours (how long the lights are on) that you have over that tank and how the plants are doing... presuming they are doing well and whether it's a low-tech tank (no CO2 or added nutrients) or a medium-tech or high-tech tank (these are other factors that have to do with how much lighting one will need). I'll also compile this data on my low-tech, low-light tanks and then I'll probably start to get a feel for how a set of guidelines could read for simplicity... but with all the variables, I do not see a simple chart coming out of this. If I can get it as simple as the "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon... Rule...", I'll be happy. I might also pose this project as a new thread in a couple of planted tank forums to get more feedback as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Each type of bulb has a different light output, but CFL's are different to Fluorscents and T-whatever bulbs, so basically a watts per gallon table would not work, that's what Steve and Lenny have been arguing ;) We need a different type of table NOT based on watts at all, but based on Lumen's which is the actual light output that the bulb gives off, and which is what we need to know for the different type's of plants (low/medium/high light req), instead of the 2 watts per gallon, etc. Now someone needs to make a lumen's per gallon table ;) LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > Is seems as though it should be more a a Watts per Gallon table, now > with all the different types of bulbs out there. How difficult would > it be for someone who understands lighting to come up with a table? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable > with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent > tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. > > What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The > only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent > bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you > have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much > lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type > CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would > still be plenty for a 10G tank. > > The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably > 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and > if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, > then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous > incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of > standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of > lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show > the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the > packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. > Usually > a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white > is too low. > > http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-757 > 74-LBP > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=7741-75 > 774-LBP> > 7T10&lpage=none > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-7 > 5774-E > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-7 > 5774-E> > SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how > many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it > is equivalent to? > > Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45420	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Lenny, From the article I keep seeming to mention in this discussion: " Most photosynthetic invertebrates should be kept with lamps in a varied Kelvin temperature that includes 6400-10,000 K (up to 20,000K in tanks deeper than 30 inches) as well as Actinic which emits a fluorescent blue light and is usually used as supplemental lighting. Not only is actinic lighting somewhat beneficial to photosynthetic invertebrates, it is also aesthetically pleasing to the eye when used to supplement "daylight" lighting." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Kate, I'm presuming you're planning a saltwater tank since you mentioned corals??? For a reef tank (that's what they call a saltwater tank with corals), you would need a LOT more lighting than provided by standard CFL's used as replacement for incandescent light bulbs. You might be able to find CFL "spot lights" which you could then screw into a vanity strip light so the bulbs spot-light down into the tank but you will also need Actinic lighting for the corals. I'm not a SW fish tank keeper so my knowledge base is just from the several articles that I've read over the years but I know that normal CFL lighting will not work by itself on a reef tank. If you are talking about a freshwater tank, then corals do not grow in freshwater... at least not the typical corals that most folks are familiar with. There may be some kind of exotic freshwater coral somewhere in the world but it's not readily available in the aquaria trade. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of littlemamakt Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 10:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Actually, I was thinking of a DIY project. Building my own hood with something like a strip light that goes over a vanity with these bulbs. My tank is 48" x 18" x 21" and I would like to have corals eventually, so i don't want to "chance" it! It's just one of many possibilities. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Kate, > > What you are looking at it's a replacement for an incandescent bulb. > While this is also known as a compact fluorescent bulb, there are > those that are made specifically for aquarium usage with various color > temperature ratings and CRI's. There are kits to convert your current > lighting system to CFLs and also a good number of light strips and > hoods already made for CFLs. If you are going to use SFL lighting, my > suggestion is to buy the strip to replace your current strip, or a new > hood if your current light strip is built as part of the hood. > > Do your homework first, to make sure the lamp you wish to use is > compatible with the new strip or hood. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail > <http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43307-7 > 5774-E SL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none> > &productId=43307-75774-ESL23TM/D/UTY&lpage=none > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how > many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it > is equivalent to? > > Kate ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45421	From: harry perry	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?/Lumens

First you need a way to measure Lumens. Meters are expensive. Harry --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 12:40 AM   As I think about this, a single table will not work. There would probably have to be five to ten guidelines (possibly with corresponding tables) since a shallow tank (12" to 16") would need less lighting (lumens) than a medium-shallow depth tank (17" to 23") which would need less than a medium-deep tank (24" to 30") and then a deep tank (over 30") would really need specialized lighting that would shine beams down into the water to penetrate the depth (LED's, Halogen, etc.). Then you would have the various grades of plants, low-light, medium-low, medium-high and high-light needs. There would have to be some kind of matrix so that a low-light plant in a shallow tank would show very low-light needs and a high light plant in a deep tank would need extra-bright penetrating/ beam-type light. All other plants and tanks would fall everywhere in between these two extremes. I'm going to keep looking around and brainstorming this concept but the problem still lies in that so much of the anecdotal evidence that exists from postings by fish keepers in the various forums does not address lumens in detail so until fish keepers start posting the total lumens on their various tanks, tank dimensions and with the various plants and what works for each type of tank, and then whether it's a low-tech tank up to a high-tech tank or somewhere in between, it's going to be hard to try and figure out a simplified chart. I may do like I did with my article, "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon, Fish Killing Rule For Freshwater Aquariums", http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2007/ 02/new-rules- guidelines- to-replace- 1-per. html, and list the above info, but first I need to figure out the proper amount of lumens that folks use on their various tanks to come up with some statistical data. So Amber (and any other readers of this thread)... please give me your tank size(s) (mainly gallons and depth) and the amount of lumens (you can include type of lighting, watts, etc... but mainly lumens) and lumen-hours (how long the lights are on) that you have over that tank and how the plants are doing... presuming they are doing well and whether it's a low-tech tank (no CO2 or added nutrients) or a medium-tech or high-tech tank (these are other factors that have to do with how much lighting one will need). I'll also compile this data on my low-tech, low-light tanks and then I'll probably start to get a feel for how a set of guidelines could read for simplicity.. . but with all the variables, I do not see a simple chart coming out of this. If I can get it as simple as the "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon... Rule...", I'll be happy. I might also pose this project as a new thread in a couple of planted tank forums to get more feedback as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Each type of bulb has a different light output, but CFL's are different to Fluorscents and T-whatever bulbs, so basically a watts per gallon table would not work, that's what Steve and Lenny have been arguing ;) We need a different type of table NOT based on watts at all, but based on Lumen's which is the actual light output that the bulb gives off, and which is what we need to know for the different type's of plants (low/medium/ high light req), instead of the 2 watts per gallon, etc. Now someone needs to make a lumen's per gallon table ;) LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > Is seems as though it should be more a a Watts per Gallon table, now > with all the different types of bulbs out there. How difficult would > it be for someone who understands lighting to come up with a table? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>> > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable > with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent > tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. > > What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The > only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent > bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you > have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much > lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type > CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would > still be plenty for a 10G tank. > > The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably > 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and > if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, > then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous > incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of > standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of > lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show > the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the > packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. > Usually > a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white > is too low. > > http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= 7741-757 > 74-LBP > <http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= 7741-75 > 774-LBP> > 7T10&lpage=none > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > <http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= 43307-7 > 5774-E > <http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= 43307-7 > 5774-E> > SL23TM/D/UTY& lpage=none> > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how > many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it > is equivalent to? > > Kate [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45422	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Yes in reading further through the responses in this thread, I see that switching to lumens make more sense with perhaps a mention of watts only as it would apply to energy conservation. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Deb, Watts should be thrown out as a measurement for aquarium lighting. There are so many types of bulbs that such a table as you propose would reach many pages, and be a turn off for the casual aquarium keeper. Lumens would be a more accurate measurement, and a simple table would suffice, based on tank dimensions, since tanks are sold in standard dimensions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Is seems as though it should be more a a Watts per Gallon table, now with all the different types of bulbs out there. How difficult would it be for someone who understands lighting to come up with a table? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45423	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

Hi CB, Lucille, Raven -- and DebR, of course (LOL) -- At one time, the now antiquated "Watts" consideration for was quite useful as a guideline for establishing how much light was produced -- when illumination by it was consistent back when incandescent lighting was used (even though it is still be used for fluorescent applications in the needed amount of illumination per gallon). But, "Watts" is not -- and never was -- a measure of actual lighting. The "Watt" is the measurement of the amount of electricity (volts x amps) needed to produce a given amount of light when a certain amount of this electricity is used; a 40 Watt (or 60, 100 Watt, etc.) bulb is expected to consisently produce a certain amount of light (lumens) for its electrical current draw, and so forth for each Wattage (current draw) rating. When this same 40 Watts is applied to a completely different form of lighting bulb/tube, that tube may be expected to possibly (probably) produce a far different output of lighting. A 40 Watt incandescent bulb can produce 505 total lumens of light (12.6 Lumens per Gallon). A 40 Watt incandescent tube can produce 2700 total lumens (67.3 Lumens per Gallon). Other, newer forms of light will produce even more lumens per amount of the same current draw (Watts) being used. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45424	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions and (NEW) Humidity

No, not yet. No cukes in the house but I'll pick some up next time I go to the market. We like them too. OH NO! A leak! It reminds me of the time the toilet tank split at my parents' house. Both hard of hearing, my mother repeatedly told my father that she heard water running. "BAH! Foolish woman!" -- until Dad strolled up the hall. Squish, squish, squish... Yes, a big mess to clean up. But the worse the misadventure, the funnier the stories about it afterward. ~Kai PS - I had a fish tank dream last night. I dreamed that I was back in the house I grew up in and we had apparently moved away but were still clearing it out for sale. I had three HUUUGE tanks in my room but no one had cared for them in a long time. They were half-evaporated, the fish were starving, some were (ahem) floating and it was an overwhelming mess. I woke up in a panic that I had been so neglectful to my fishie friends. How could I have just left them there??? Phew, I'm glad it was just a dream... > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Did you try any cucumber? I've heard they prefer seedless. > If it makes you feel any better my 125 gallon "evaporated" about 20 gallons in one night (onto my living room floor). My eheim filter sprung a leak and hubby noticed the sound of running water so very kindly unplugged the filter, but didn't know that the siphon would continue if he didn't take the filter intake/outtake out of the tank *sigh* but that's okay the slow leak was better than the really fast leak it had before he unplugged the filter, LOL. Just a big mess to clean up now, thankfully the filter was easy to fix. > > Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > OK, I'll try fresh veggies and veggie wafers. > > > > > > > Replying to myself... The romaine has gone untouched except by the little bitty uninvited snails. The ones I want to feed have no interest. Not much interest in the wafers either. > > > > But I digress..... > > > > It's cold and dry here and my 55g has been losing just under 2 gallons a week to evaporation. Now that I think of it, I don't remember having my annual nose bleeds last winter so the extra moisture in the air must be helping. > > > > Ha. We all know fish tanks are good for the soul. Who'da thunk it that they'd be good for the body as well!?! :o) > > ~Kai > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45425	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

Hi Lenny, Yes, it's these silk plants that are found in craft stores (such as Michaels) -- which Clare is intending to visit -- that I would be wary of -- and that my post was primarily meant for since members may seek them out. As you mentioned "silk" aquarium plants may be some kind of synthetic, that I don't know. I do notice that stores such as Drs Foster and Smith offer "Fabric" Plants. As they don't indicate what they're made of, I can only assume these are their "silk" plants, as opposed to their plastic plants. Any organic fiber (or any organic substance, for that matter) will decay over time though, and usually lot's faster submerged, and silk is an organic fiber. Being an animal fiber made mostly of proteins, its rate of decay is far slower than plant fiber which is made mostly of cellulose -- but I couldn't tell you exactly how long it will last, only to say that it will rot. It may last a good while, I don't know as I've never "grown" them (LOL). One other point that the hobbyist needs to consider when contemplating buying silk plants from a craft store is that many such silk plants sold there have metal (steel) stems wrapped in the fabric to bend and position the plants for display. In the aquarium, this will rust more and more as time goes by, not necessarily great for the inhabitants when multiples of these "stems" start rusting. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45426	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?/Lumens

Most bulbs list the lumens on their packaging nowadays. As \\Steve// indicated in a recent post, an underwater Lux Meter would be nice to have to measure the amount of light making it to the bottom of the tank... but I'll have to rely on anecdotal evidence from other fish keepers as to what amount of lumens works on deeper tanks versus shallower tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?/Lumens First you need a way to measure Lumens. Meters are expensive. Harry --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 12:40 AM As I think about this, a single table will not work. There would probably have to be five to ten guidelines (possibly with corresponding tables) since a shallow tank (12" to 16") would need less lighting (lumens) than a medium-shallow depth tank (17" to 23") which would need less than a medium-deep tank (24" to 30") and then a deep tank (over 30") would really need specialized lighting that would shine beams down into the water to penetrate the depth (LED's, Halogen, etc.). Then you would have the various grades of plants, low-light, medium-low, medium-high and high-light needs. There would have to be some kind of matrix so that a low-light plant in a shallow tank would show very low-light needs and a high light plant in a deep tank would need extra-bright penetrating/ beam-type light. All other plants and tanks would fall everywhere in between these two extremes. I'm going to keep looking around and brainstorming this concept but the problem still lies in that so much of the anecdotal evidence that exists from postings by fish keepers in the various forums does not address lumens in detail so until fish keepers start posting the total lumens on their various tanks, tank dimensions and with the various plants and what works for each type of tank, and then whether it's a low-tech tank up to a high-tech tank or somewhere in between, it's going to be hard to try and figure out a simplified chart. I may do like I did with my article, "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon, Fish Killing Rule For Freshwater Aquariums", http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2007/ 02/new-rules- guidelines- to-replace- 1-per. html, and list the above info, but first I need to figure out the proper amount of lumens that folks use on their various tanks to come up with some statistical data. So Amber (and any other readers of this thread)... please give me your tank size(s) (mainly gallons and depth) and the amount of lumens (you can include type of lighting, watts, etc... but mainly lumens) and lumen-hours (how long the lights are on) that you have over that tank and how the plants are doing... presuming they are doing well and whether it's a low-tech tank (no CO2 or added nutrients) or a medium-tech or high-tech tank (these are other factors that have to do with how much lighting one will need). I'll also compile this data on my low-tech, low-light tanks and then I'll probably start to get a feel for how a set of guidelines could read for simplicity.. . but with all the variables, I do not see a simple chart coming out of this. If I can get it as simple as the "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon... Rule...", I'll be happy. I might also pose this project as a new thread in a couple of planted tank forums to get more feedback as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Each type of bulb has a different light output, but CFL's are different to Fluorscents and T-whatever bulbs, so basically a watts per gallon table would not work, that's what Steve and Lenny have been arguing ;) We need a different type of table NOT based on watts at all, but based on Lumen's which is the actual light output that the bulb gives off, and which is what we need to know for the different type's of plants (low/medium/ high light req), instead of the 2 watts per gallon, etc. Now someone needs to make a lumen's per gallon table ;) LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > Is seems as though it should be more a a Watts per Gallon table, now > with all the different types of bulbs out there. How difficult would > it be for someone who understands lighting to come up with a table? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>> > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable > with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent > tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. > > What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The > only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent > bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you > have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much > lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type > CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would > still be plenty for a 10G tank. > > The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably > 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and > if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, > then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous > incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of > standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of > lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show > the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the > packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. > Usually > a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white > is too low. > > http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= > 7741-757 > 74-LBP > <http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= > 7741-75 > 774-LBP> > 7T10&lpage=none > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > <http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= > 43307-7 > 5774-E > <http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= > 43307-7 > 5774-E> > SL23TM/D/UTY& lpage=none> > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how > many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it > is equivalent to? > > Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45427	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: More Snail Questions and (NEW) Humidity

As to your P.S., if I'm not mistaken, another member of this group (I think it was this group), actually got into fish keeping this way. They moved into a house that had a tank left behind with some surviving goldfish in a half empty green water situation. While goldfish are reported to live 25-40 years, I'm wondering if they might not live forever if properly cared for. Some of them go through pure hell and somehow survive their ordeals. Unfortunately, so many others die far too young from improper care. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 7:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More Snail Questions and (NEW) Humidity No, not yet. No cukes in the house but I'll pick some up next time I go to the market. We like them too. OH NO! A leak! It reminds me of the time the toilet tank split at my parents' house. Both hard of hearing, my mother repeatedly told my father that she heard water running. "BAH! Foolish woman!" -- until Dad strolled up the hall. Squish, squish, squish... Yes, a big mess to clean up. But the worse the misadventure, the funnier the stories about it afterward. ~Kai PS - I had a fish tank dream last night. I dreamed that I was back in the house I grew up in and we had apparently moved away but were still clearing it out for sale. I had three HUUUGE tanks in my room but no one had cared for them in a long time. They were half-evaporated, the fish were starving, some were (ahem) floating and it was an overwhelming mess. I woke up in a panic that I had been so neglectful to my fishie friends. How could I have just left them there??? Phew, I'm glad it was just a dream... > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Did you try any cucumber? I've heard they prefer seedless. > If it makes you feel any better my 125 gallon "evaporated" about 20 gallons in one night (onto my living room floor). My eheim filter sprung a leak and hubby noticed the sound of running water so very kindly unplugged the filter, but didn't know that the siphon would continue if he didn't take the filter intake/outtake out of the tank *sigh* but that's okay the slow leak was better than the really fast leak it had before he unplugged the filter, LOL. Just a big mess to clean up now, thankfully the filter was easy to fix. > > Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > OK, I'll try fresh veggies and veggie wafers. > > > > > > > Replying to myself... The romaine has gone untouched except by the little bitty uninvited snails. The ones I want to feed have no interest. Not much interest in the wafers either. > > > > But I digress..... > > > > It's cold and dry here and my 55g has been losing just under 2 gallons a week to evaporation. Now that I think of it, I don't remember having my annual nose bleeds last winter so the extra moisture in the air must be helping. > > > > Ha. We all know fish tanks are good for the soul. Who'da thunk it > > that they'd be good for the body as well!?! :o) ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45428	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

Hi, Lenny: Wasn't planning on using silk from the craft store, just plastic. As far as silk goes, the ones I had in my 20G community tank did not seem to hold up as nicely as the plastic and I purchased them in my LFS, but that was some years ago, so perhaps they have improved. Should not discount them until I take another look, right? Michaels should have a great variety of plastic foliage that might work for me, even if I have to "deconstruct" something they have and reuse it; the sum of its parts being worth more than the whole kind of idea LOL Thanks and I will be posting again soon! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oops.. I just answered this in my answer to Ray. I'm not sure that typical > silk plants found at a crafts store will work in aquariums. They likely do > not use the right kinds of dyes (waterproof) and possibly the silk is a > lower quality (or maybe silk *aquarium* plants are actually some kind of > synthetic) but look for real silk/cloth aquarium plants like the bundle on > eBay that I provided a link for earlier in this thread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45429	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

Please forgive my interruption here but I believe you mentioned at the very beginning of your posting using aquarium sealer to accomplish our goal?    Please be advised that SOME (cheap plastic plants) will actually dissolve a bit using this stuff------which is safe and does work providing you allow a full 24 hours for it to "cure", and yes it does smell to high heaven,till it cures.  Then simply rise is warm water first and then place in your tank.   If your doing this on a first time bases, I suggest just a small application first to see how it takes to the brand of plastic plants you're using.  I have done this and made repairs to them using the "Azoo Real Plants and Water Wonders, both sold through Doctors Foster and Smith.     Bill --- On Sat, 1/2/10, cobra427lady <clare@...> wrote: From: cobra427lady <clare@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Decor Options To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 10:49 AM Hi, Lenny: Wasn't planning on using silk from the craft store, just plastic. As far as silk goes, the ones I had in my 20G community tank did not seem to hold up as nicely as the plastic and I purchased them in my LFS, but that was some years ago, so perhaps they have improved.  Should not discount them until I take another look, right?  Michaels should have a great variety of plastic foliage that might work for me, even if I have to "deconstruct" something they have and reuse it; the sum of its parts being worth more than the whole kind of idea  LOL Thanks and I will be posting again soon! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Oops.. I just answered this in my answer to Ray.  I'm not sure that typical > silk plants found at a crafts store will work in aquariums.  They likely do > not use the right kinds of dyes (waterproof) and possibly the silk is a > lower quality (or maybe silk *aquarium* plants are actually some kind of > synthetic) but look for real silk/cloth aquarium plants like the bundle on > eBay that I provided a link for earlier in this thread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >  > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45430	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?/Lumens

Big Al's online is offering a Milwaukee Instruments underwater LUX meter for $98.99 plus shipping. That's not outrageous, though most would say it is not inexpensive either. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?/Lumens Most bulbs list the lumens on their packaging nowadays. As \\Steve// indicated in a recent post, an underwater Lux Meter would be nice to have to measure the amount of light making it to the bottom of the tank... but I'll have to rely on anecdotal evidence from other fish keepers as to what amount of lumens works on deeper tanks versus shallower tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?/Lumens First you need a way to measure Lumens. Meters are expensive. Harry --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 12:40 AM As I think about this, a single table will not work. There would probably have to be five to ten guidelines (possibly with corresponding tables) since a shallow tank (12" to 16") would need less lighting (lumens) than a medium-shallow depth tank (17" to 23") which would need less than a medium-deep tank (24" to 30") and then a deep tank (over 30") would really need specialized lighting that would shine beams down into the water to penetrate the depth (LED's, Halogen, etc.). Then you would have the various grades of plants, low-light, medium-low, medium-high and high-light needs. There would have to be some kind of matrix so that a low-light plant in a shallow tank would show very low-light needs and a high light plant in a deep tank would need extra-bright penetrating/ beam-type light. All other plants and tanks would fall everywhere in between these two extremes. I'm going to keep looking around and brainstorming this concept but the problem still lies in that so much of the anecdotal evidence that exists from postings by fish keepers in the various forums does not address lumens in detail so until fish keepers start posting the total lumens on their various tanks, tank dimensions and with the various plants and what works for each type of tank, and then whether it's a low-tech tank up to a high-tech tank or somewhere in between, it's going to be hard to try and figure out a simplified chart. I may do like I did with my article, "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon, Fish Killing Rule For Freshwater Aquariums", http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2007/ 02/new-rules- guidelines- to-replace- 1-per. html, and list the above info, but first I need to figure out the proper amount of lumens that folks use on their various tanks to come up with some statistical data. So Amber (and any other readers of this thread)... please give me your tank size(s) (mainly gallons and depth) and the amount of lumens (you can include type of lighting, watts, etc... but mainly lumens) and lumen-hours (how long the lights are on) that you have over that tank and how the plants are doing... presuming they are doing well and whether it's a low-tech tank (no CO2 or added nutrients) or a medium-tech or high-tech tank (these are other factors that have to do with how much lighting one will need). I'll also compile this data on my low-tech, low-light tanks and then I'll probably start to get a feel for how a set of guidelines could read for simplicity.. . but with all the variables, I do not see a simple chart coming out of this. If I can get it as simple as the "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon... Rule...", I'll be happy. I might also pose this project as a new thread in a couple of planted tank forums to get more feedback as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? Each type of bulb has a different light output, but CFL's are different to Fluorscents and T-whatever bulbs, so basically a watts per gallon table would not work, that's what Steve and Lenny have been arguing ;) We need a different type of table NOT based on watts at all, but based on Lumen's which is the actual light output that the bulb gives off, and which is what we need to know for the different type's of plants (low/medium/ high light req), instead of the 2 watts per gallon, etc. Now someone needs to make a lumen's per gallon table ;) LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > Is seems as though it should be more a a Watts per Gallon table, now > with all the different types of bulbs out there. How difficult would > it be for someone who understands lighting to come up with a table? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>> > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Remember.. that old "watts per gallon" rule is no longer applicable > with modern lighting. It does still work with standard fluorescent > tubes but not with CFL's, Halogen, HO, VHO, LED, etc. > > What size tank... dimensions? What kind of fixture do you have? The > only aquarium light fixtures that I've seen that use incandescent > bases (standard screw in base) were on 10G tanks. If this is what you > have, you would NOT want these CFL's as that would be far too much > lighting. You could use the smaller, lower wattage candelabra type > CFL's or tubular CFL, which would be a much lower wattage but would > still be plenty for a 10G tank. > > The next link is to a 7W (equal to 40W of incandescent and probably > 15W of standard fluorescent lighting) tubular bulb that would work and > if you have the 10G lighting fixture that holds two tubular bulbs, > then upgrading to two of these CFL's would triple your previous > incandescent lighting and give you around 3 watts per gallon of > standard fluorescent lighting which would be a decent amount of > lighting for most plants. Unfortunately, the Lowe's page doesn't show > the Kelvin rating on this bulb so you might have to look at the > packaging and look for a K (Kelvin) rating between 5,000 and 7,500. > Usually > a daylight or bright white bulb will be in this range where soft white > is too low. > > http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= > 7741-757 > 74-LBP > <http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= > 7741-75 > 774-LBP> > 7T10&lpage=none > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of Katie > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? > > Has anyone ever used these for aquarium lights? > > <http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= > 43307-7 > 5774-E > <http://www.lowes. com/lowes/ lkn?action= productDetail& productId= > 43307-7 > 5774-E> > SL23TM/D/UTY& lpage=none> > > mini twist.jpg > > I'd like to give them a try, but I'm not sure how to calculate how > many I need. Do I go buy the actual wattage (23) or the 100 watts it > is equivalent to? > > Kate

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45431	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

approve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45432	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Snails, Round Two

I put snails into each of my Betta bowls and now two of the three are dead. I think adding a shell into each of the bowls (as recommended by another site) was the coup de gras. All the shells are out and PWCs have been performed. Fortunately, Mom's snail is still alive and well. (PHEW!) I brought home a new snail (I should have bought two) earlier today and so far so good... no obvious trauma. I dropped in a spirulina wafer but s/he hasn't found it yet. Plenty of other debris on the bottom to taste and explore. Other sites say that stray Betta food will be its primary food and you say I should offer it cukes, romaine and spirulina wafers. A little cuttlebone in the bowl is also a good idea -- and my parakeet is due for a fresh one so the snails can have the remains of his old one. What else do I need to know and do? In the other Betta Bowl, there are little clear gelatinous blobs about the size of large water droplets. With my good glasses, they seem to have little specs in them. Are they snail eggs? From the departed Mystery Snails? Or from the little bitty (horribly inbred) ones that came in on a plant several years ago? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Snails, Round Two

Those are pest snail eggs, mystery snails lay their eggs above the water and they are pink in color, so you would know ;) LOL. In a betta bowl the mystery snail would probably crawl out unless you keep the water a few inches from the top, otherwise they would lay the eggs above the water line on the side of the bowl. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > I put snails into each of my Betta bowls and now two of the three are > dead. I think adding a shell into each of the bowls (as recommended by > another site) was the coup de gras. All the shells are out and PWCs > have been performed. Fortunately, Mom's snail is still alive and well. > (PHEW!) > > I brought home a new snail (I should have bought two) earlier today > and so far so good... no obvious trauma. I dropped in a spirulina > wafer but s/he hasn't found it yet. Plenty of other debris on the > bottom to taste and explore. > > Other sites say that stray Betta food will be its primary food and you > say I should offer it cukes, romaine and spirulina wafers. A little > cuttlebone in the bowl is also a good idea -- and my parakeet is due > for a fresh one so the snails can have the remains of his old one. > What else do I need to know and do? > > In the other Betta Bowl, there are little clear gelatinous blobs about > the size of large water droplets. With my good glasses, they seem to > have little specs in them. Are they snail eggs? From the departed > Mystery Snails? Or from the little bitty (horribly inbred) ones that > came in on a plant several years ago? > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45434	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Decor Options

Great suggestions, Bill - thanks - this group is a veritable fount of information. So glad I found you all! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Please forgive my interruption here but I believe you mentioned at the > very beginning of your posting using aquarium sealer to accomplish > our goal?  >   > Please be advised that SOME (cheap plastic plants) will actually dissolve > a bit using this stuff------which is safe and does work providing you allow > a full 24 hours for it to "cure", and yes it does smell to high heaven,till it cures.  Then simply rise is warm water first and then place in your tank. >   > If your doing this on a first time bases, I suggest just a small application first to > see how it takes to the brand of plastic plants you're using.  I have done this and made repairs to them using the "Azoo Real Plants and Water Wonders, both sold through Doctors Foster and Smith. >   >   > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/2/10, cobra427lady <clare@...> wrote: > > > From: cobra427lady <clare@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Decor Options > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 10:49 AM > > > > Hi, Lenny: > Wasn't planning on using silk from the craft store, just plastic. > As far as silk goes, the ones I had in my 20G community tank did not seem to hold up as nicely as the plastic and I purchased them in my LFS, but that was some years ago, so perhaps they have improved.  Should not discount them until I take another look, right?  > Michaels should have a great variety of plastic foliage that might work for me, even if I have to "deconstruct" something they have and reuse it; the sum of its parts being worth more than the whole kind of idea  LOL > Thanks and I will be posting again soon! > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > Oops.. I just answered this in my answer to Ray.  I'm not sure that typical > > silk plants found at a crafts store will work in aquariums.  They likely do > > not use the right kinds of dyes (waterproof) and possibly the silk is a > > lower quality (or maybe silk *aquarium* plants are actually some kind of > > synthetic) but look for real silk/cloth aquarium plants like the bundle on > > eBay that I provided a link for earlier in this thread. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >  > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45435	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: Snails, Round Two

Most snails are omnivores, leaning more towards the herbivore end of the food spectrum, whereas Bettas are carnivores so their foods should be mostly meaty/protein type foods, so, while Snails may eat any missed Betta food, they also need a fully balanced diet leaning towards the herbivore end of the food spectrum. I'm not sure how big your spirulina wafers are but I imagine even one would be too big for a single snail. You should probably break it up, at least into quarters... depending on how big they are. Also, if you put down a small *plate* (plastic bottle top, aspirin bottle top, etc.) and put the food (especially the algae wafers which dissolve after a while) on that little plate so that it doesn't dissolved down into the gravel before the snail finds it. As far as the cuttle bone, don't expect to see the snail eating it so much but I imagine they will if they feel the need for more calcium. For the most part, the small piece of cuttle bone will just slowly dissolve, as needed and depending on the pH of the water to help keep the calcium carbonate level up in the bowl. Yes, the gelatinous blobs are most likely your nuisance snail eggs. Mystery and Apple snails lay their egg clutches above the water line and they are BIG clutches of hundreds of eggs and come in a couple of colors (pink, tan, etc.), depending on the species. If you hold back on feeding your Betta, they can be trained to eat the newly hatched snails but if you don't want to risk getting more of them, just scrape the egg blobs off the glass now. More than likely, they have also laid these egg blobs on the plants, decorations and any where else they were when they decided to lay eggs. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 4:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snails, Round Two I put snails into each of my Betta bowls and now two of the three are dead. I think adding a shell into each of the bowls (as recommended by another site) was the coup de gras. All the shells are out and PWCs have been performed. Fortunately, Mom's snail is still alive and well. (PHEW!) I brought home a new snail (I should have bought two) earlier today and so far so good... no obvious trauma. I dropped in a spirulina wafer but s/he hasn't found it yet. Plenty of other debris on the bottom to taste and explore. Other sites say that stray Betta food will be its primary food and you say I should offer it cukes, romaine and spirulina wafers. A little cuttlebone in the bowl is also a good idea -- and my parakeet is due for a fresh one so the snails can have the remains of his old one. What else do I need to know and do? In the other Betta Bowl, there are little clear gelatinous blobs about the size of large water droplets. With my good glasses, they seem to have little specs in them. Are they snail eggs? From the departed Mystery Snails? Or from the little bitty (horribly inbred) ones that came in on a plant several years ago? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45436	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: New Goldfish Variety?

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/pets/2009/12/30/2009-12-30_scientists_b reed_seethrough_goldfish_with_visible_heart_brain_organs.html http://tinyurl.com/yaethor Scientists breed see-through goldfish with visible heart, brain, organs: report BY Nicole Carter DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, December 30th 2009, 2:43 PM A see-through goldfish created by Japanese scientists may be a humane alternative to dissection, as well as a unique pet, the London Daily Mail reports. The new transparent breed of fish, whose heart, brain and other organs are visible through its scales and skin, is the first of its kind, according to the Mail. "You can see a live heart and other organs because the scales and skin have no pigments," Yutaka Tamaru, an associate professor at Mie University, who along with researchers at Nagoya University succeeded in making the fish, known as "ryukin." "You don't have to cut it open. You can see a tiny brain above the goldfish's black eyes," he told the Daily Mail. So how'd they do it? According to the Daily Mail report, the scientists picked pale-skinned mutant hatchery goldfish and bred them together. The fish can live up to 20 years and be as heavy as 5 pounds. . . . -----------<continued at link>---------- The photo along with the article shows what appears to be a very young ryunkin. There is a pink variety of ryunkin, ,though I've never seen it in person, or even in a photograph. I suspect that this fish may be out of that variety. Just between you and me, I think this researcher is just looking to show something came out of all those Japanese yen the government spent on his hobby, though. I don't know how such a deformed body can be used by science to study for adverse effects of whatever testing they would involve fish in. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45437	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/2/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?

Part of the article also states that the development of this see-through goldfish (although I couldn't see much in that picture) and a see-through frog (developed by another group) are being done to create humane alternatives to dissection of dead frogs, fish, pig fetuses, etc., to satisfy the PETA and PETA wanna-be groups. IMO, intentionally creating mutated animals that will live/die sub-normal lives seems far more cruel than humanely killing normal animals for the purpose of teaching biology students about anatomy, dissection, etc. I remember back in high school, doing dissections of several creatures, from a BIG grasshopper to a bullfrog and then in college dissecting a pig fetus. I was a biology major but not a medical student so I never got to do a human cadaver but I can't imagine looking at see-through mutations of normal animals ever replacing the information learned by students from doing real-life dissection of creatures. I mean seriously... would you want your doctor to be trained on see-through animals, virtual dissection and virtual surgery so that their first real cut with a scalpel is on you???... and then the doctor finds out they have a weak stomach and they have to run out the surgery room or they just faint? Real-life dissections of insects and animals and then human cadavers is what separates the queasy stomached students from the ones that don't faint at the site of a few internal organs... the future doctors and veterinarians of the world. I still remember the numbers of students that couldn't go through with the real-life dissections and these were kids who chose to take these biology lab classes. It's better to learn while the kids are young, than to spend a hundred thousand dollars (or more) on school and find out a kid can't handle a little blood and guts. Mmmmmm.. I think I'm going to fix me something to eat now... hopefully I have some left over spaghetti and meatballs with red sauce... or something else that looks like blood and guts. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Goldfish Variety? http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/pets/2009/12/30/2009-12-30_scientists_b reed_seethrough_goldfish_with_visible_heart_brain_organs.html http://tinyurl.com/yaethor Scientists breed see-through goldfish with visible heart, brain, organs: report BY Nicole Carter DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, December 30th 2009, 2:43 PM A see-through goldfish created by Japanese scientists may be a humane alternative to dissection, as well as a unique pet, the London Daily Mail reports. The new transparent breed of fish, whose heart, brain and other organs are visible through its scales and skin, is the first of its kind, according to the Mail. "You can see a live heart and other organs because the scales and skin have no pigments," Yutaka Tamaru, an associate professor at Mie University, who along with researchers at Nagoya University succeeded in making the fish, known as "ryukin." "You don't have to cut it open. You can see a tiny brain above the goldfish's black eyes," he told the Daily Mail. So how'd they do it? According to the Daily Mail report, the scientists picked pale-skinned mutant hatchery goldfish and bred them together. The fish can live up to 20 years and be as heavy as 5 pounds. . . . -----------<continued at link>---------- The photo along with the article shows what appears to be a very young ryunkin. There is a pink variety of ryunkin, ,though I've never seen it in person, or even in a photograph. I suspect that this fish may be out of that variety. Just between you and me, I think this researcher is just looking to show something came out of all those Japanese yen the government spent on his hobby, though. I don't know how such a deformed body can be used by science to study for adverse effects of whatever testing they would involve fish in. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45438	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?

Lenny, In answer to your question, " I mean seriously... would you want your doctor to be trained on see-through animals, virtual dissection and virtual surgery so that their first real cut with a scalpel is on you?", actually, I'd rather you be the first one <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Goldfish Variety? Part of the article also states that the development of this see-through goldfish (although I couldn't see much in that picture) and a see-through frog (developed by another group) are being done to create humane alternatives to dissection of dead frogs, fish, pig fetuses, etc., to satisfy the PETA and PETA wanna-be groups. IMO, intentionally creating mutated animals that will live/die sub-normal lives seems far more cruel than humanely killing normal animals for the purpose of teaching biology students about anatomy, dissection, etc. I remember back in high school, doing dissections of several creatures, from a BIG grasshopper to a bullfrog and then in college dissecting a pig fetus. I was a biology major but not a medical student so I never got to do a human cadaver but I can't imagine looking at see-through mutations of normal animals ever replacing the information learned by students from doing real-life dissection of creatures. I mean seriously... would you want your doctor to be trained on see-through animals, virtual dissection and virtual surgery so that their first real cut with a scalpel is on you???... and then the doctor finds out they have a weak stomach and they have to run out the surgery room or they just faint? Real-life dissections of insects and animals and then human cadavers is what separates the queasy stomached students from the ones that don't faint at the site of a few internal organs... the future doctors and veterinarians of the world. I still remember the numbers of students that couldn't go through with the real-life dissections and these were kids who chose to take these biology lab classes. It's better to learn while the kids are young, than to spend a hundred thousand dollars (or more) on school and find out a kid can't handle a little blood and guts. Mmmmmm.. I think I'm going to fix me something to eat now... hopefully I have some left over spaghetti and meatballs with red sauce... or something else that looks like blood and guts. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Goldfish Variety? http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/pets/2009/12/30/2009-12-30_scientists_b reed_seethrough_goldfish_with_visible_heart_brain_organs.html http://tinyurl.com/yaethor Scientists breed see-through goldfish with visible heart, brain, organs: report BY Nicole Carter DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, December 30th 2009, 2:43 PM A see-through goldfish created by Japanese scientists may be a humane alternative to dissection, as well as a unique pet, the London Daily Mail reports. The new transparent breed of fish, whose heart, brain and other organs are visible through its scales and skin, is the first of its kind, according to the Mail. "You can see a live heart and other organs because the scales and skin have no pigments," Yutaka Tamaru, an associate professor at Mie University, who along with researchers at Nagoya University succeeded in making the fish, known as "ryukin." "You don't have to cut it open. You can see a tiny brain above the goldfish's black eyes," he told the Daily Mail. So how'd they do it? According to the Daily Mail report, the scientists picked pale-skinned mutant hatchery goldfish and bred them together. The fish can live up to 20 years and be as heavy as 5 pounds. . . . -----------<continued at link>---------- The photo along with the article shows what appears to be a very young ryunkin. There is a pink variety of ryunkin, ,though I've never seen it in person, or even in a photograph. I suspect that this fish may be out of that variety. Just between you and me, I think this researcher is just looking to show something came out of all those Japanese yen the government spent on his hobby, though. I don't know how such a deformed body can be used by science to study for adverse effects of whatever testing they would involve fish in. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45439	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?

By the time someone gets into Med School, they had better be working on and with REAL flesh and bone. But for those in 9th Grade Biology Class, I think it's cruel to torture critters for something that few students actually learn anything from. Back in the stone ages when that came up in my Biology Class, we broke up into either small or large groups to dissect on our own (a few small groups -- some were scientific, others were sadistic) or watch the teacher (a large group) do it more proficiently. To see them in action in a transparent "class pet" is (theoretically) a lot more educational as well as humane. ~Kai > Steve Szabo wrote: > > Lenny, > > In answer to your question, " I mean seriously... would you want your doctor to be trained on see-through animals, virtual dissection and virtual surgery so that their first real cut with a scalpel is on you?", actually, I'd rather you be the first one <g>. > > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45440	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?

LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Goldfish Variety? Lenny, In answer to your question, " I mean seriously... would you want your doctor to be trained on see-through animals, virtual dissection and virtual surgery so that their first real cut with a scalpel is on you?", actually, I'd rather you be the first one <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Goldfish Variety? Part of the article also states that the development of this see-through goldfish (although I couldn't see much in that picture) and a see-through frog (developed by another group) are being done to create humane alternatives to dissection of dead frogs, fish, pig fetuses, etc., to satisfy the PETA and PETA wanna-be groups. IMO, intentionally creating mutated animals that will live/die sub-normal lives seems far more cruel than humanely killing normal animals for the purpose of teaching biology students about anatomy, dissection, etc. I remember back in high school, doing dissections of several creatures, from a BIG grasshopper to a bullfrog and then in college dissecting a pig fetus. I was a biology major but not a medical student so I never got to do a human cadaver but I can't imagine looking at see-through mutations of normal animals ever replacing the information learned by students from doing real-life dissection of creatures. I mean seriously... would you want your doctor to be trained on see-through animals, virtual dissection and virtual surgery so that their first real cut with a scalpel is on you???... and then the doctor finds out they have a weak stomach and they have to run out the surgery room or they just faint? Real-life dissections of insects and animals and then human cadavers is what separates the queasy stomached students from the ones that don't faint at the site of a few internal organs... the future doctors and veterinarians of the world. I still remember the numbers of students that couldn't go through with the real-life dissections and these were kids who chose to take these biology lab classes. It's better to learn while the kids are young, than to spend a hundred thousand dollars (or more) on school and find out a kid can't handle a little blood and guts. Mmmmmm.. I think I'm going to fix me something to eat now... hopefully I have some left over spaghetti and meatballs with red sauce... or something else that looks like blood and guts. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Goldfish Variety? http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/pets/2009/12/30/2009-12-30_scientists_b reed_seethrough_goldfish_with_visible_heart_brain_organs.html http://tinyurl.com/yaethor Scientists breed see-through goldfish with visible heart, brain, organs: report BY Nicole Carter DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, December 30th 2009, 2:43 PM A see-through goldfish created by Japanese scientists may be a humane alternative to dissection, as well as a unique pet, the London Daily Mail reports. The new transparent breed of fish, whose heart, brain and other organs are visible through its scales and skin, is the first of its kind, according to the Mail. "You can see a live heart and other organs because the scales and skin have no pigments," Yutaka Tamaru, an associate professor at Mie University, who along with researchers at Nagoya University succeeded in making the fish, known as "ryukin." "You don't have to cut it open. You can see a tiny brain above the goldfish's black eyes," he told the Daily Mail. So how'd they do it? According to the Daily Mail report, the scientists picked pale-skinned mutant hatchery goldfish and bred them together. The fish can live up to 20 years and be as heavy as 5 pounds. . . . -----------<continued at link>---------- The photo along with the article shows what appears to be a very young ryunkin. There is a pink variety of ryunkin, ,though I've never seen it in person, or even in a photograph. I suspect that this fish may be out of that variety. Just between you and me, I think this researcher is just looking to show something came out of all those Japanese yen the government spent on his hobby, though. I don't know how such a deformed body can be used by science to study for adverse effects of whatever testing they would involve fish in. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45441	From: cbhardison	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect. I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp. I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol. Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45442	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

According to http://www.flippersandfins.net/LionfishVolitans.htm the Lionfish is surprisingly easy to care for. But the tank in the instructions is only 20 gallons. The Lionfish needs a bigger one -- the article says 50 gallons, minimum (plus more gallons for whatever it will share its habitat with.) FYI, a 55g tank is actually only about 47 gallons filled to the brim with no decorations so in reality, a 55g only holds about 43 gallons. That having been said, as cool as a coffee table tank may be, you'd probably be better off with a tank on a standard stand -- specifically to hold all the accessories you'll want and need. Pumps and filters and skimmers and timers and all the chemicals and other (say this with your best Brooklyn accent) STUFF you'll need. The most important piece of advice I got was that in order to be a keeper of fish, you must first be a keeper of water. You are in control of their little ecosystems -- and that involves some biology and some chemistry. You don't necessarily have to understand WHY things happen but know THAT they do -- and how to encourage the good things and counteract the bad things. It's not necessarily difficult, but it is complex. Read a lot and ask a million questions. Learn to discern the bad advice from the good. ~Kai > cbhardison wrote: > > Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect. I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp. I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol. Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Goldfish Variety?

Well, then *looking* at a so-called clear fish would be less educational than looking at a picture or a computerized "virtual" anatomy which would actually be more educational as you could actually see clear images of the organs, whereas, with that mutant fish, I really couldn't see a whole lot. If using "cruel" as a baseline, it would be far less "cruel" to use pictures and virtual 3-D images, than creating mutant fish and critters. Mutant *fancy* goldfish already suffer from so many health issues due to all of the inbreeding that took place to create these mutant *fancy* goldfish and even kept under ideal conditions, many of them have lots of health issues and then they die a much earlier death than their *normal* non-mutant counterparts. I'm sure these new mutants... which are actually mutants of mutants since Ryukins were already mutant goldfish... will probably have even more health issues related to their inbreeding. There are plenty of normal goldfish that can be dissected by classrooms, without the need to create a new mutant variety. What's the difference... as far as the "cruel" baseline... between dissecting a normal feeder-type goldfish for educational purposes or buying feeder goldfish to feed to your carnivorous fish... other than it's probably not as healthy for your carnivorous fish. But... fish eating other or baby fish is a fact of nature so I don't see a problem with folks buying baby fish to feed to their pet fish, much like I don't see a problem with someone buying cute little white mice to feed to their pet snakes or other pets that might like cute little white mice on their menu. I personally like them deep fried in spicy Cajun batter or blackened... oh.. I was talking about the fish, not the cute little white mice since I haven't tried them in a recipe... yet! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Goldfish Variety? By the time someone gets into Med School, they had better be working on and with REAL flesh and bone. But for those in 9th Grade Biology Class, I think it's cruel to torture critters for something that few students actually learn anything from. Back in the stone ages when that came up in my Biology Class, we broke up into either small or large groups to dissect on our own (a few small groups -- some were scientific, others were sadistic) or watch the teacher (a large group) do it more proficiently. To see them in action in a transparent "class pet" is (theoretically) a lot more educational as well as humane. ~Kai > Steve Szabo wrote: > > Lenny, > > In answer to your question, " I mean seriously... would you want your doctor to be trained on see-through animals, virtual dissection and virtual surgery so that their first real cut with a scalpel is on you?", actually, I'd rather you be the first one <g>. > > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45444	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Learn to discern the bad advice from the good!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Kai,   There's a mouthful!   If you know how to do this please clue me in!   ol' Bill----always willing to learn! <G>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45445	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Agree with the others, you would need a larger tank than this, need a better filter than an internal filter (marine tanks need live sand, live rock, heaters and skimmers). And I’m pretty sure most fish would not appreciate being lit from below, substrate makes them feel secure which is important to their health. My sister has a purchased coffee table tank and has run it for several years with 2-3 small cool-water fish so it works for her, no heaters or lighting. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cbhardison Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect. I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp. I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol. Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45446	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Learn to discern the bad advice from the good!!!!!!!!!!!!

A smart man learns from his mistakes but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Some of life's best lessons are learned hardest. :oP ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Hey Kai, > > There's a mouthful! > > If you know how to do this please clue me in! > > ol' Bill----always willing to learn! <G> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45447	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: mumble-grumble Calcium Sulfate

You'd think the gray would have overtaken the blonde by now... When I went to my not-so-local fish store yesterday for a new snail, I completely forgot your good advice to add some cuttlebone to the bowls with the snails. Instead, some 7-day Betta Feeders caught my eye and "Oh good!" that the first ingredient is Calcium Sulfate. "CALCIUM! They need that for their shells!" So I came home with the package and looked up Calcium Sulfate. "Plaster of Paris, gypsum, sheet-rock." SHEET-ROCK????? Oh for crying out loud. I'm not putting that in my bowls! It was only $2.49 but I'm kicking myself for having made such a bad purchase. I feel DUPED. AVOID: TOP FIN "Betta 7-Day Fish Food Feeders." "Six 7-Day Feeding Blocks" that are kinda Betta-shaped and 1.2g each. And then I remembered your good advice to use cuttlebone. I have a parakeet -- and his is due to be replaced. The snails can have chunks of his old one. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Most novelty tanks are just that... novelties. Let that be my first warning. ;-) There are several issues that I've seen in forums over the years. Your proposal raises even more issues since you are talking about a saltwater, possibly even a saltwater reef tank. 1) Filtration? Normal filters are visible and generally ugly, which is why they are usually on the back or under most aquariums and then steps are taken to hide the plumbing and filters as much as possible, which isn't always an option with an all glass coffee table set-up. I guess you could do some under tank plumbing and maybe even use an advanced, high powered UGF filter, which wouldn't work with a sand substrate if that is what you wanted, but you would still need the return line, which I guess could be plumbed up from the bottom as well. I personally don't like making all them holes in the bottom of a tank in a residential setting where a leak can cause LOTS of problems. Carnivorous/predatory fish are usually much *dirtier* since they have such a high protein diet, resulting in much higher levels of dissolved organic compounds in their water, so either the tanks should be REALLY BIG to allow for LOTS of water volume for each fish or the tank should be maintained much more often than the weekly schedule for a normally stocked tropical fish tank. Since you are considering a saltwater tank, now you have the issue of a protein skimmer, which could also be plumbed internally and would have separate filtration reservoirs that would need regular maintenance. Since your preferred fish is a saltwater reef fish, you also have the likelihood of added powerhead water movement pumps which would be visible. Most of this stuff is hidden by the base or hood/canopy in a *normal* tank stand. 2) Cleaning? Since most tanks should have their gravel/substrate vacuumed at least weekly and heavily stocked tanks (or tanks with your proposed carnivores) needing even more frequent cleaning, you have the issue of the glass top of the table having to be handled more frequently which raises *accident* issues with the glass. Further, siphoning out a tank at floor level would require a powered siphon. Of course, if you have specialized under-tank filtration and plumbing, then you could plumb-in a hose that could be unrolled to a nearby sink/toilet and then use the tanks pump to pump water out the bottom of the tank and then refilled via the same hose, much like us Python users do. BTW, Python is a brand name for a cold-water faucet powered siphon and refill system. 3) Fish Stress? Fish tanks are there to be admired but there should be a limit on the amount of interaction between the fish and their external surroundings and people. With the tank being a coffee table, depending on the household activity level, this could be stressful to the fish, not to mention if the coffee table is heavily used or bumped into, further stressing the fish. Putting a reef fish in a tank without a reef might be stressful as well, although I'll admit I do not know very much about saltwater fish keeping so I can't offer an opinion on this issue. 4) Power Supply? Do you have a raised wood floor home so you can run wiring up under the coffee table? If not, then you will have to run the wiring under or across your floor. 5) Lighting? Somehow, that tank in your link is lit up nicely... is the Pyramid coffee table decoration some kind of battery operated lighting or is the tank lighting hidden by reflection from the glass top at the angle of the photo? It almost looks like the Pyramid is the lighting but then you would have the wire running across your glass coffee table unless it's battery powered and they recharge it every night. I've never seen that before so I'm not sure. It would have to be some kind of LED lighting to run off of batteries for a long period of time each day... , they could just turn it on when they have company over or want to see their fish better during certain times. If you plan on live rock/coral, then you have even more enhanced requirements for lighting... which may not be possible at all in a coffee table tank. 6) If you can overcome these obstacles, then I don't see a major reason not to try it... BUT, like in the link you provided, build the stand/tank so that the tank can be moved from the coffee table set up in the event you decide you want to later put the tank on a more *normal* stand at a later date if you grow disgruntled with the maintenance requirements of a coffee table tank. That coffee table tank is merely a wire rack shelving system like this... http://www.buyrack.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=browse&CID=1423 and then cut down to where it's only 24" or so high. 7) That table in your link uses only a 20G tank which would not be any where near large enough for most predatory fish, including your mentioned Volitan Lionfish, http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-11/fm/feature/ (LONG article about Lionfish and FREE online saltwater fish magazine), which grow to be BIG fish. Snip from that article... "As adult fish, they are considered medium sized (10-15" long with tail) and, while they are relatively inactive swimmers, they still must be housed in a fairly large aquarium (75 gallons or more)."(End snip). I'm not sure I agree with only 75G for a potential 15" fish, especially in a salt water environment. Even in a freshwater tank, a 15" fish would be pressed with only 75G of water volume and saltwater fish have even higher water quality requirements. They do say "75G or more" but I would say a minimum of 150G for this type of saltwater fish... maybe 100G would work. 8) Now... you are talking a BIG coffee table since you can't really go with a tall tank so might be looking at a 36" x 36" x 18" tall square custom tank or a 48" x 24" x 18" tall rectangular standard tank, both of which would provide around 100G of water volume. The latter tank is available on GlassCages.com, http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=41 and is called "95 Wide 4, 48 x 24 x 17 (Clear Eurobracing) $550". 9) The glass top looks to be real glass, from the green edge (and acrylic would be subject to scratching more easily) and looks to be at least 3/4" thick so it will probably weigh about a 100 lbs or so, so you have to consider having help when you have to remove the top each time you have to do tank maintenance. You might be able to go with thinner glass but I would leave that to someone with knowledge in glass table tops. 10) Last but not least, make sure you (or rather your wife, if you have one) are VERY happy with your furniture arrangement in your den since moving that coffee table will not be an easy task since it will likely weigh around 1,000+ pounds when done. My ex-wife would have gone nuts since she liked to move crap around all the time. Darn... I should have done this project just to mess with her! LOL There may be some other issues but they aren't jumping out at me right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cbhardison Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect. I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp. I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol. Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45449	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

what would be a good species, for a 20 gallon tank?  From what you just said, that sounds really small now, but the coffee table I have now, is just a chopped up folding work table, so I need something else. "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 11:19 AM According to http://www.flippersandfins.net/LionfishVolitans.htm the Lionfish is surprisingly easy to care for.  But the tank in the instructions is only 20 gallons.  The Lionfish needs a bigger one -- the article says 50 gallons, minimum (plus more gallons for whatever it will share its habitat with.)  FYI, a 55g tank is actually only about 47 gallons filled to the brim with no decorations so in reality, a 55g only holds about 43 gallons. That having been said, as cool as a coffee table tank may be, you'd probably be better off with a tank on a standard stand -- specifically to hold all the accessories you'll want and need.  Pumps and filters and skimmers and timers and all the chemicals and other (say this with your best Brooklyn accent) STUFF you'll need. The most important piece of advice I got was that in order to be a keeper of fish, you must first be a keeper of water.  You are in control of their little ecosystems -- and that involves some biology and some chemistry.  You don't necessarily have to understand WHY things happen but know THAT they do -- and how to encourage the good things and counteract the bad things.  It's not necessarily difficult, but it is complex. Read a lot and ask a million questions.  Learn to discern the bad advice from the good. ~Kai > cbhardison wrote: > > Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself.  My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect.  I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp.  I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol.  Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out? > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45450	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Learn to discern the bad advice from the good!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks! I guess that explains the bruises! Bil --- On Sun, 1/3/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Learn to discern the bad advice from the good!!!!!!!!!!!! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 1:49 PM > A smart man learns from his mistakes > but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. > > Some of life's best lessons are learned hardest. > > :oP > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hey Kai, > >  > > There's a mouthful! > >  > > If you know how to do this please clue me in! > >  > > ol' Bill----always willing to learn! <G> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45451	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

She has a coffee table aquarium?  With no lighting, how can she see the fish? "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 11:36 AM Agree with the others, you would need a larger tank than this, need a better filter than an internal filter (marine tanks need live sand, live rock, heaters and skimmers).  And I’m pretty sure most fish would not appreciate being lit from below, substrate makes them feel secure which is important to their health. My sister has a purchased coffee table tank and has run it for several years with 2-3 small cool-water fish so it works for her, no heaters or lighting.   _____  From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cbhardison Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic   Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect. I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp. I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol. Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45452	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Snails, Round Two

My long string of Bettas over the years have all done well eating TetraMin granules with the color coded green lid. Only one died of anything other than old age so I must be doing something right. :o) The Mystery Snails, however, are new to me. I'll break the spirulina into a smaller piece next time. The bowls are all bare-bottomed, each with a potted plant so that they're easy to vacuum. And offer fresh greens too. Because Mom's Betta Bowl is right under her reading lamp, it grows a lot of green algae. I assume her snail gets more than his fill of greens! :oP Mine are here on my computer desk. I'll stick the chunks of cuttlebone into the plant pots for easy care. And thanks, Amber already told me the eggs are from the pest snails. They seem to multiply in waves. They almost die out and then there's a big new batch. Looks like it's time for another baby boom. I don't dislike them but it wouldn't break my heart if they died out. Like I said, they're horribly inbred by this point. ~Kai > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" wrote: > > Most snails are omnivores, leaning more towards the herbivore end of the food spectrum, whereas Bettas are carnivores so their foods should be mostly meaty/protein type foods, so, while Snails may eat any missed Betta food, they also need a fully balanced diet leaning towards the herbivore end of the food spectrum. > > I'm not sure how big your spirulina wafers are but I imagine even one would be too big for a single snail. You should probably break it up, at least into quarters... depending on how big they are. Also, if you put down a small *plate* (plastic bottle top, aspirin bottle top, etc.) and put the food (especially the algae wafers which dissolve after a while) on that little plate so that it doesn't dissolved down into the gravel before the snail finds it. > > As far as the cuttle bone, don't expect to see the snail eating it so much but I imagine they will if they feel the need for more calcium. For the most part, the small piece of cuttle bone will just slowly dissolve, as needed and depending on the pH of the water to help keep the calcium carbonate level up in the bowl. > > Yes, the gelatinous blobs are most likely your nuisance snail eggs. Mystery and Apple snails lay their egg clutches above the water line and they are BIG clutches of hundreds of eggs and come in a couple of colors (pink, tan, etc.), depending on the species. If you hold back on feeding your Betta, they can be trained to eat the newly hatched snails but if you don't want to risk getting more of them, just scrape the egg blobs off the glass now. More than likely, they have also laid these egg blobs on the plants, decorations and any where else they were when they decided to lay eggs. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > Kai wrote: > I put snails into each of my Betta bowls and now two of the three are dead. I think adding a shell into each of the bowls (as recommended by another site) was the coup de gras. All the shells are out and PWCs have been performed. Fortunately, Mom's snail is still alive and well. (PHEW!) > > I brought home a new snail (I should have bought two) earlier today and so far so good... no obvious trauma. I dropped in a spirulina wafer but s/he hasn't found it yet. Plenty of other debris on the bottom to taste and explore. > > Other sites say that stray Betta food will be its primary food and you say I should offer it cukes, romaine and spirulina wafers. A little cuttlebone in the bowl is also a good idea -- and my parakeet is due for a fresh one so the snails can have the remains of his old one. What else do I need to know and do? > > In the other Betta Bowl, there are little clear gelatinous blobs about the size of large water droplets. With my good glasses, they seem to have little specs in them. Are they snail eggs? From the departed Mystery Snails? Or from the little bitty (horribly inbred) ones that came in on a plant several years ago? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45453	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

There is light in the room, and don’t forget, the table is glass 360 plus the top is glass. Mostly you view from above since a coffee table is so low. I’ve seen it, it’s cool. Can’t have it in a room with direct sunlight however algae does become a problem. Now that Lenny mentions it, most fish would prefer at least one side covered. Like most of us probably have the back covered with a background or the wall or something. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colby Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic She has a coffee table aquarium? With no lighting, how can she see the fish? "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> .net> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 11:36 AM Agree with the others, you would need a larger tank than this, need a better filter than an internal filter (marine tanks need live sand, live rock, heaters and skimmers). And I’m pretty sure most fish would not appreciate being lit from below, substrate makes them feel secure which is important to their health. My sister has a purchased coffee table tank and has run it for several years with 2-3 small cool-water fish so it works for her, no heaters or lighting. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cbhardison Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:38 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect. I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp. I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol. Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45454	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

There are Nano reef tanks, in the 20G range or smaller, but then they would not have BIG predatory fish in them. See my previous LONG reply and consider the classic MAN-saying... "GO BIG... OR GO HOME!"... or as Tim Allen would say... MORE POWER!!!! UGH, UGH!!! LOL If your budget (or wife, if you have one) will not allow this... then read over some/all of the articles here, http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/ but once again, lighting would be a MAJOR issue with a coffee table tank since reef tanks require such HIGH lighting levels. This is a nice chronological article with LOTS of details on a Nano Reef tank... called "Poor Man's Salt Water Nano Reef Tank". http://www.mindspear.com/reef/nanoreef/index.htm After reading through the top part of the article, scroll down to the bottom of the page and read up since the author starts with week 1 at the bottom and then put week 2 on top of that and the last edit was adding week 16. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colby Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic what would be a good species, for a 20 gallon tank?  From what you just said, that sounds really small now, but the coffee table I have now, is just a chopped up folding work table, so I need something else. "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 11:19 AM According to http://www.flippersandfins.net/LionfishVolitans.htm the Lionfish is surprisingly easy to care for.  But the tank in the instructions is only 20 gallons.  The Lionfish needs a bigger one -- the article says 50 gallons, minimum (plus more gallons for whatever it will share its habitat with.)  FYI, a 55g tank is actually only about 47 gallons filled to the brim with no decorations so in reality, a 55g only holds about 43 gallons. That having been said, as cool as a coffee table tank may be, you'd probably be better off with a tank on a standard stand -- specifically to hold all the accessories you'll want and need.  Pumps and filters and skimmers and timers and all the chemicals and other (say this with your best Brooklyn accent) STUFF you'll need. The most important piece of advice I got was that in order to be a keeper of fish, you must first be a keeper of water.  You are in control of their little ecosystems -- and that involves some biology and some chemistry.  You don't necessarily have to understand WHY things happen but know THAT they do -- and how to encourage the good things and counteract the bad things.  It's not necessarily difficult, but it is complex. Read a lot and ask a million questions.  Learn to discern the bad advice from the good. ~Kai > cbhardison wrote: > > Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself.  My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect.  I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp.  I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol.  Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45455	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

You have alot of good points, the coffee table might not be such a good idea after all.  How about cylinder aquariums?  One of the rooms I'm thinking about for an aquarium, is 106"x126", with a 35.5"x35.5" table in the center.  I know that cant help too much, but does that give you any idea how much space I might have to work with?   "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 1:04 PM Most novelty tanks are just that... novelties.  Let that be my first warning. ;-)  There are several issues that I've seen in forums over the years.  Your proposal raises even more issues since you are talking about a saltwater, possibly even a saltwater reef tank. 1) Filtration?  Normal filters are visible and generally ugly, which is why they are usually on the back or under most aquariums and then steps are taken to hide the plumbing and filters as much as possible, which isn't always an option with an all glass coffee table set-up.  I guess you could do some under tank plumbing and maybe even use an advanced, high powered UGF filter, which wouldn't work with a sand substrate if that is what you wanted, but you would still need the return line, which I guess could be plumbed up from the bottom as well.  I personally don't like making all them holes in the bottom of a tank in a residential setting where a leak can cause LOTS of problems.  Carnivorous/predatory fish are usually much *dirtier* since they have such a high protein diet, resulting in much higher levels of dissolved organic compounds in their water, so either the tanks should be REALLY BIG to allow for LOTS of water volume for each fish or the tank should be maintained much more often than the weekly schedule for a normally stocked tropical fish tank.  Since you are considering a saltwater tank, now you have the issue of a protein skimmer, which could also be plumbed internally and would have separate filtration reservoirs that would need regular maintenance.  Since your preferred fish is a saltwater reef fish, you also have the likelihood of added powerhead water movement pumps which would be visible.  Most of this stuff is hidden by the base or hood/canopy in a *normal* tank stand. 2) Cleaning?  Since most tanks should have their gravel/substrate vacuumed at least weekly and heavily stocked tanks (or tanks with your proposed carnivores) needing even more frequent cleaning, you have the issue of the glass top of the table having to be handled more frequently which raises *accident* issues with the glass.  Further, siphoning out a tank at floor level would require a powered siphon.  Of course, if you have specialized under-tank filtration and plumbing, then you could plumb-in a hose that could be unrolled to a nearby sink/toilet and then use the tanks pump to pump water out the bottom of the tank and then refilled via the same hose, much  like us Python users do. BTW, Python is a brand name for a cold-water faucet powered siphon and refill system. 3) Fish Stress?  Fish tanks are there to be admired but there should be a limit on the amount of interaction between the fish and their external surroundings and people.  With the tank being a coffee table, depending on the household activity level, this could be stressful to the fish, not to mention if the coffee table is heavily used or bumped into, further stressing the fish.  Putting a reef fish in a tank without a reef might be stressful as well, although I'll admit I do not know very much about saltwater fish keeping so I can't offer an opinion on this issue. 4) Power Supply?  Do you have a raised wood floor home so you can run wiring up under the coffee table?  If not, then you will have to run the wiring under or across your floor. 5) Lighting?  Somehow, that tank in your link is lit up nicely... is the Pyramid coffee table decoration some kind of battery operated lighting or is the tank lighting hidden by reflection from the glass top at the angle of the photo?  It almost looks like the Pyramid is the lighting but then you would have the wire running across your glass coffee table unless it's battery powered and they recharge it every night.  I've never seen that before so I'm not sure.  It would have to be some kind of LED lighting to run off of batteries for a long period of time each day... , they could just turn it on when they have company over or want to see their fish better during certain times.  If you plan on live rock/coral, then you have even more enhanced requirements for lighting... which may not be possible at all in a coffee table tank. 6) If you can overcome these obstacles, then I don't see a major reason not to try it... BUT, like in the link you provided, build the stand/tank so that the tank can be moved from the coffee table set up in the event you decide you want to later put the tank on a more *normal* stand at a later date if you grow disgruntled with the maintenance requirements of a coffee table tank.  That coffee table tank is merely a wire rack shelving system like this... http://www.buyrack.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=browse&CID=1423 and then cut down to where it's only 24" or so high. 7) That table in your link uses only a 20G tank which would not be any where near large enough for most predatory fish, including your mentioned Volitan Lionfish, http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-11/fm/feature/ (LONG article about Lionfish and FREE online saltwater fish magazine), which grow to be BIG fish.  Snip from that article... "As adult fish, they are considered medium sized (10-15" long with tail) and, while they are relatively inactive swimmers, they still must be housed in a fairly large aquarium (75 gallons or more)."(End snip).  I'm not sure I agree with only 75G for a potential 15" fish, especially in a salt water environment.  Even in a freshwater tank, a 15" fish would be pressed with only 75G of water volume and saltwater fish have even higher water quality requirements.  They do say "75G or more" but I would say a minimum of 150G for this type of saltwater fish... maybe 100G would work. 8) Now... you are talking a BIG coffee table since you can't really go with a tall tank so might be looking at a 36" x 36" x 18" tall square custom tank or a 48" x 24" x 18" tall rectangular standard tank, both of which would provide around 100G of water volume.  The latter tank is available on GlassCages.com, http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=41 and is called "95 Wide 4, 48 x 24 x 17 (Clear Eurobracing) $550".    9) The glass top looks to be real glass, from the green edge (and acrylic would be subject to scratching more easily) and looks to be at least 3/4" thick so it will probably weigh about a 100 lbs or so, so you have to consider having help when you have to remove the top each time you have to do tank maintenance.  You might be able to go with thinner glass but I would leave that to someone with knowledge in glass table tops. 10) Last but not least, make sure you (or rather your wife, if you have one) are VERY happy with your furniture arrangement in your den since moving that coffee table will not be an easy task since it will likely weigh around 1,000+ pounds when done.  My ex-wife would have gone nuts since she liked to move crap around all the time.  Darn... I should have done this project just to mess with her! LOL There may be some other issues but they aren't jumping out at me right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cbhardison Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself.  My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect.  I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp.  I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol.  Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45456	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Another point to add is that nano reefs are extremely challenging to maintain - I have heard that you need something like 50 to 65g before stability in water parameters is more easily maintained. I consider nano reef tanks to be for the highly experienced only, although I realize many people do start out with these. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 3, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > There are Nano reef tanks, in the 20G range or smaller, but then > they would > not have BIG predatory fish in them. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45457	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Snails, Round Two

I have both pond snails and red ramshorn snails (oh also Malaysian trumpet snails), they are each pests in one of my tanks ;) LOL. So I know exactly how you feel about wishing they weren't there. Every time I think I've gotten them under control a batch of babies pops up and I have a whole bunch more to get rid of all over again. Which is why I'm looking at a couple types of Botia loaches to eat the little buggers in a couple of my tanks without mystery snails in them. Oh and as far as possible foods to try, my mystery snails LOVE shrimp flavors (and yes that includes dead cherry shrimp if they happen to end up that way, saw one get eaten once), when I feed sinking shrimp pellets (I use the Omega One brand myself but there might be other types out there that are decent in quality), all my mystery snails drop to the bottom and start to search the substrate, they even dog pile up and fight each other for the shrimp pellets, LOL. You might try getting some of them, my betta also likes them too. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > My long string of Bettas over the years have all done well eating > TetraMin granules with the color coded green lid. Only one died of > anything other than old age so I must be doing something right. :o) > > The Mystery Snails, however, are new to me. I'll break the spirulina > into a smaller piece next time. The bowls are all bare-bottomed, each > with a potted plant so that they're easy to vacuum. And offer fresh > greens too. > > Because Mom's Betta Bowl is right under her reading lamp, it grows a > lot of green algae. I assume her snail gets more than his fill of > greens! :oP Mine are here on my computer desk. > > I'll stick the chunks of cuttlebone into the plant pots for easy care. > > And thanks, Amber already told me the eggs are from the pest snails. > They seem to multiply in waves. They almost die out and then there's a > big new batch. Looks like it's time for another baby boom. I don't > dislike them but it wouldn't break my heart if they died out. Like I > said, they're horribly inbred by this point. > ~Kai > > > "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" wrote: > > > > Most snails are omnivores, leaning more towards the herbivore end of > the food spectrum, whereas Bettas are carnivores so their foods should > be mostly meaty/protein type foods, so, while Snails may eat any > missed Betta food, they also need a fully balanced diet leaning > towards the herbivore end of the food spectrum. > > > > I'm not sure how big your spirulina wafers are but I imagine even > one would be too big for a single snail. You should probably break it > up, at least into quarters... depending on how big they are. Also, if > you put down a small *plate* (plastic bottle top, aspirin bottle top, > etc.) and put the food (especially the algae wafers which dissolve > after a while) on that little plate so that it doesn't dissolved down > into the gravel before the snail finds it. > > > > As far as the cuttle bone, don't expect to see the snail eating it > so much but I imagine they will if they feel the need for more > calcium. For the most part, the small piece of cuttle bone will just > slowly dissolve, as needed and depending on the pH of the water to > help keep the calcium carbonate level up in the bowl. > > > > Yes, the gelatinous blobs are most likely your nuisance snail eggs. > Mystery and Apple snails lay their egg clutches above the water line > and they are BIG clutches of hundreds of eggs and come in a couple of > colors (pink, tan, etc.), depending on the species. If you hold back > on feeding your Betta, they can be trained to eat the newly hatched > snails but if you don't want to risk getting more of them, just scrape > the egg blobs off the glass now. More than likely, they have also laid > these egg blobs on the plants, decorations and any where else they > were when they decided to lay eggs. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > > I put snails into each of my Betta bowls and now two of the three > are dead. I think adding a shell into each of the bowls (as > recommended by another site) was the coup de gras. All the shells are > out and PWCs have been performed. Fortunately, Mom's snail is still > alive and well. (PHEW!) > > > > I brought home a new snail (I should have bought two) earlier today > and so far so good... no obvious trauma. I dropped in a spirulina > wafer but s/he hasn't found it yet. Plenty of other debris on the > bottom to taste and explore. > > > > Other sites say that stray Betta food will be its primary food and > you say I should offer it cukes, romaine and spirulina wafers. A > little cuttlebone in the bowl is also a good idea -- and my parakeet > is due for a fresh one so the snails can have the remains of his old > one. What else do I need to know and do? > > > > In the other Betta Bowl, there are little clear gelatinous blobs > about the size of large water droplets. With my good glasses, they > seem to have little specs in them. Are they snail eggs? From the > departed Mystery Snails? Or from the little bitty (horribly inbred) > ones that came in on a plant several years ago? > > ~Kai > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45458	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

I think you should go visit your local Salvation Army and Goodwill stores and pick out a nice coffee table that you like. Something sturdy that doesn't wobble. And nice enough that it looks good but not so la-di-dah that you're afraid to put your drink down on it. And then get a nice fish tank on a proper stand for another part of the room. NO DIRECT SUNLIGHT! Water weighs a little more than 8 pounds per gallon so figure 160 pounds for that 20g when deciding what to put it on. For a 20-gallon tank, I recommend fish that start small and STAY small. I don't think your tank is big enough for salt water. You will need a tank, a stand, a hood (either with or without a light), a filter system (hang-on-back is fine for that size), probably a heater and you'll eventually want to add an air bubbler of some sort. You don't have to put a substrate but it looks nicer. I prefer gravel to sand because it's easier to clean. And the sky's the limit with a background and other decorations. Read Lenny's site about cycling. Set up your tank, run it with water but no fish for at least a week, and once you're sure that the water has cycled and stabilized, THEN add fish. The 1" of fish per gallon rule is probably close enough for that size tank but you're better off with less than that. And that's anticipated full size fish, not the little baby fish they'll sell you. What would *I* put in that 20g? "Community" tropical fish because they're cheap and readily available at nearly every pet store. = About a dozen Cherry and/or Golden Barbs. (Pick BRIGHT colors, no pale fish!) OR = About half a dozen Tiger Barbs. (The bigger they get, the meaner they get.) OR = About a dozen Neon Tetras plus a half dozen of another larger Tetra. (They come in a large variety of shapes, sizes and colors.) OR = About 8 matched Mollies. 6 females, 2 males. They are live bearers and have sex. One quick poke and he's done! Oh yeah and a "stick" algae eater. OR (no heater needed) "Black Velvet" Moor goldfish. 2 or 3 is max for that size because they are CHAMPION POOPERS!!! You'll have to do lots of tank maintenance to clean up after them. ~Kai > Colby wrote: > > what would be a good species, for a 20 gallon tank? From what you just said, that sounds really small now, but the coffee table I have now, is just a chopped up folding work table, so I need something else. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45459	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

I have found after getting several sizes of fish tanks that I prefer the 55 gallon or larger tanks, as once you start buying fish that are pretty/colorful/cool looking etc you find that you have no room left in your little tank and you soon have to upgrade anyways because you over bought on fish because they were just so "insert your own choice word here, LOL". I started with just a ten gallon tank, then got a 55 gallon tank and quickly over populated it and had to upgrade to a larger tank, picked up a 125 gallon tank cheaply, then bought another 55 gallon to separate my Angel fish into because they're not little Angel's at all ;) LOL. I have come to appreciate community fish (AKA peaceful fish) since starting my hobby again, I like loaches and cory catfish, and have come to like watching mystery snails and small shrimp as well. Before we suggest what kind of fish would be good for you we really should get your tap water baseline tests. Do you happen to have access to walmart nearby? You can order a master test kit on walmart.com and have it sent to the store for free for pick up (except where I live in Alaska, LOL). You'll also want something like a 5 gallon bucket (which you will put to use once you have a fish tank as well). You're going to want to know what your tap water pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates sit at before doing anything with your water for fish anyways, so it's good to know what your water baseline is before you start adding tanks and fish. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > I think you should go visit your local Salvation Army and Goodwill > stores and pick out a nice coffee table that you like. Something > sturdy that doesn't wobble. And nice enough that it looks good but not > so la-di-dah that you're afraid to put your drink down on it. > > And then get a nice fish tank on a proper stand for another part of > the room. NO DIRECT SUNLIGHT! Water weighs a little more than 8 pounds > per gallon so figure 160 pounds for that 20g when deciding what to put > it on. > > For a 20-gallon tank, I recommend fish that start small and STAY > small. I don't think your tank is big enough for salt water. > > You will need a tank, a stand, a hood (either with or without a > light), a filter system (hang-on-back is fine for that size), probably > a heater and you'll eventually want to add an air bubbler of some > sort. You don't have to put a substrate but it looks nicer. I prefer > gravel to sand because it's easier to clean. And the sky's the limit > with a background and other decorations. > > Read Lenny's site about cycling. Set up your tank, run it with water > but no fish for at least a week, and once you're sure that the water > has cycled and stabilized, THEN add fish. The 1" of fish per gallon > rule is probably close enough for that size tank but you're better off > with less than that. And that's anticipated full size fish, not the > little baby fish they'll sell you. > > What would *I* put in that 20g? "Community" tropical fish because > they're cheap and readily available at nearly every pet store. > > = About a dozen Cherry and/or Golden Barbs. (Pick BRIGHT colors, no > pale fish!) > OR > = About half a dozen Tiger Barbs. (The bigger they get, the meaner > they get.) > OR > = About a dozen Neon Tetras plus a half dozen of another larger Tetra. > (They come in a large variety of shapes, sizes and colors.) > OR > = About 8 matched Mollies. 6 females, 2 males. They are live bearers > and have sex. One quick poke and he's done! > > Oh yeah and a "stick" algae eater. > > OR (no heater needed) "Black Velvet" Moor goldfish. 2 or 3 is max for > that size because they are CHAMPION POOPERS!!! You'll have to do lots > of tank maintenance to clean up after them. > ~Kai > > > Colby wrote: > > > > what would be a good species, for a 20 gallon tank? From what you > just said, that sounds really small now, but the coffee table I have > now, is just a chopped up folding work table, so I need something else. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45460	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

I'm pretty sure you can't use tap for a reef tank, you have to use reverse osmosis as your base water to which the salt is added. My partner John is starting up a reef tank right now after five months of research, and this is what he is telling me... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Before we suggest what kind of fish would be good for you we really > should get your tap water baseline tests. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45461	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

I have seen some nice tall cylindrical reef tanks in articles and magazine ads... even one that rotates at a slow rate so you would see all sides... but they aren't cheap. ;-) There are tall square tanks that would be much less costly than a cylinder tank. At least with a taller tank on a stand, you could run your electrical wiring down from the ceiling... you might even have a ceiling light fixture in place so you can just drop down a power supply from it. Then, having both a base and a canopy, you can hide all the lighting and plumbing/filtration issues. You could even have a middle overflow tube with your live rock and coral stacked around it... if you decide to go the reef way. With saltwater tanks, you options are only limited by your wallet. Take a look at the free online magazine that I gave you the link to and I'm sure you'll find lots of other ideas, pictures and lots of information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colby Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic You have alot of good points, the coffee table might not be such a good idea after all.  How about cylinder aquariums?  One of the rooms I'm thinking about for an aquarium, is 106"x126", with a 35.5"x35.5" table in the center.  I know that cant help too much, but does that give you any idea how much space I might have to work with?   "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 1:04 PM Most novelty tanks are just that... novelties.  Let that be my first warning. ;-)  There are several issues that I've seen in forums over the years.  Your proposal raises even more issues since you are talking about a saltwater, possibly even a saltwater reef tank. 1) Filtration?  Normal filters are visible and generally ugly, which is why they are usually on the back or under most aquariums and then steps are taken to hide the plumbing and filters as much as possible, which isn't always an option with an all glass coffee table set-up.  I guess you could do some under tank plumbing and maybe even use an advanced, high powered UGF filter, which wouldn't work with a sand substrate if that is what you wanted, but you would still need the return line, which I guess could be plumbed up from the bottom as well.  I personally don't like making all them holes in the bottom of a tank in a residential setting where a leak can cause LOTS of problems.  Carnivorous/predatory fish are usually much *dirtier* since they have such a high protein diet, resulting in much higher levels of dissolved organic compounds in their water, so either the tanks should be REALLY BIG to allow for LOTS of water volume for each fish or the tank should be maintained much more often than the weekly schedule for a normally stocked tropical fish tank.  Since you are considering a saltwater tank, now you have the issue of a protein skimmer, which could also be plumbed internally and would have separate filtration reservoirs that would need regular maintenance.  Since your preferred fish is a saltwater reef fish, you also have the likelihood of added powerhead water movement pumps which would be visible.  Most of this stuff is hidden by the base or hood/canopy in a *normal* tank stand. 2) Cleaning?  Since most tanks should have their gravel/substrate vacuumed at least weekly and heavily stocked tanks (or tanks with your proposed carnivores) needing even more frequent cleaning, you have the issue of the glass top of the table having to be handled more frequently which raises *accident* issues with the glass.  Further, siphoning out a tank at floor level would require a powered siphon.  Of course, if you have specialized under-tank filtration and plumbing, then you could plumb-in a hose that could be unrolled to a nearby sink/toilet and then use the tanks pump to pump water out the bottom of the tank and then refilled via the same hose, much  like us Python users do. BTW, Python is a brand name for a cold-water faucet powered siphon and refill system. 3) Fish Stress?  Fish tanks are there to be admired but there should be a limit on the amount of interaction between the fish and their external surroundings and people.  With the tank being a coffee table, depending on the household activity level, this could be stressful to the fish, not to mention if the coffee table is heavily used or bumped into, further stressing the fish.  Putting a reef fish in a tank without a reef might be stressful as well, although I'll admit I do not know very much about saltwater fish keeping so I can't offer an opinion on this issue. 4) Power Supply?  Do you have a raised wood floor home so you can run wiring up under the coffee table?  If not, then you will have to run the wiring under or across your floor. 5) Lighting?  Somehow, that tank in your link is lit up nicely... is the Pyramid coffee table decoration some kind of battery operated lighting or is the tank lighting hidden by reflection from the glass top at the angle of the photo?  It almost looks like the Pyramid is the lighting but then you would have the wire running across your glass coffee table unless it's battery powered and they recharge it every night.  I've never seen that before so I'm not sure.  It would have to be some kind of LED lighting to run off of batteries for a long period of time each day... , they could just turn it on when they have company over or want to see their fish better during certain times.  If you plan on live rock/coral, then you have even more enhanced requirements for lighting... which may not be possible at all in a coffee table tank. 6) If you can overcome these obstacles, then I don't see a major reason not to try it... BUT, like in the link you provided, build the stand/tank so that the tank can be moved from the coffee table set up in the event you decide you want to later put the tank on a more *normal* stand at a later date if you grow disgruntled with the maintenance requirements of a coffee table tank.  That coffee table tank is merely a wire rack shelving system like this... http://www.buyrack.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=browse&CID=1423 and then cut down to where it's only 24" or so high. 7) That table in your link uses only a 20G tank which would not be any where near large enough for most predatory fish, including your mentioned Volitan Lionfish, http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-11/fm/feature/ (LONG article about Lionfish and FREE online saltwater fish magazine), which grow to be BIG fish.  Snip from that article... "As adult fish, they are considered medium sized (10-15" long with tail) and, while they are relatively inactive swimmers, they still must be housed in a fairly large aquarium (75 gallons or more)."(End snip).  I'm not sure I agree with only 75G for a potential 15" fish, especially in a salt water environment.  Even in a freshwater tank, a 15" fish would be pressed with only 75G of water volume and saltwater fish have even higher water quality requirements.  They do say "75G or more" but I would say a minimum of 150G for this type of saltwater fish... maybe 100G would work. 8) Now... you are talking a BIG coffee table since you can't really go with a tall tank so might be looking at a 36" x 36" x 18" tall square custom tank or a 48" x 24" x 18" tall rectangular standard tank, both of which would provide around 100G of water volume.  The latter tank is available on GlassCages.com, http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=41 and is called "95 Wide 4, 48 x 24 x 17 (Clear Eurobracing) $550".    9) The glass top looks to be real glass, from the green edge (and acrylic would be subject to scratching more easily) and looks to be at least 3/4" thick so it will probably weigh about a 100 lbs or so, so you have to consider having help when you have to remove the top each time you have to do tank maintenance.  You might be able to go with thinner glass but I would leave that to someone with knowledge in glass table tops. 10) Last but not least, make sure you (or rather your wife, if you have one) are VERY happy with your furniture arrangement in your den since moving that coffee table will not be an easy task since it will likely weigh around 1,000+ pounds when done.  My ex-wife would have gone nuts since she liked to move crap around all the time.  Darn... I should have done this project just to mess with her! LOL There may be some other issues but they aren't jumping out at me right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cbhardison Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 10:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself.  My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect.  I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp.  I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol.  Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45462	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Ahh I was just responding to the other posts suggestions on freshwater fish, LOL. Sorry I remember him mentioning a saltwater fish now. Honestly I would never start with a saltwater setup, I think there's a lot more thinking involved in it and if he starts with a freshwater setup and learns all the ins/outs safely I would then suggest moving up to saltwater. But this is just my suggestion. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I'm pretty sure you can't use tap for a reef tank, you have to use > reverse osmosis as your base water to which the salt is added. My > partner John is starting up a reef tank right now after five months > of research, and this is what he is telling me... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Before we suggest what kind of fish would be good for you we really > > should get your tap water baseline tests. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45463	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Funny you should mention my tap water.  Just so you know, I dont drink the water here, I'm planning on putting in a drinking filter, before I get an aquarium, so I should have access to filtered water. "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 2:24 PM I have found after getting several sizes of fish tanks that I prefer the 55 gallon or larger tanks, as once you start buying fish that are pretty/colorful/cool looking etc you find that you have no room left in your little tank and you soon have to upgrade anyways because you over bought on fish because they were just so "insert your own choice word here, LOL". I started with just a ten gallon tank, then got a 55 gallon tank and quickly over populated it and had to upgrade to a larger tank, picked up a 125 gallon tank cheaply, then bought another 55 gallon to separate my Angel fish into because they're not little Angel's at all ;) LOL. I have come to appreciate community fish (AKA peaceful fish) since starting my hobby again, I like loaches and cory catfish, and have come to like watching mystery snails and small shrimp as well. Before we suggest what kind of fish would be good for you we really should get your tap water baseline tests. Do you happen to have access to walmart nearby? You can order a master test kit on walmart.com and have it sent to the store for free for pick up (except where I live in Alaska, LOL). You'll also want something like a 5 gallon bucket (which you will put to use once you have a fish tank as well). You're going to want to know what your tap water pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates sit at before doing anything with your water for fish anyways, so it's good to know what your water baseline is before you start adding tanks and fish. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > I think you should go visit your local Salvation Army and Goodwill > stores and pick out a nice coffee table that you like. Something > sturdy that doesn't wobble. And nice enough that it looks good but not > so la-di-dah that you're afraid to put your drink down on it. > > And then get a nice fish tank on a proper stand for another part of > the room. NO DIRECT SUNLIGHT! Water weighs a little more than 8 pounds > per gallon so figure 160 pounds for that 20g when deciding what to put > it on. > > For a 20-gallon tank, I recommend fish that start small and STAY > small. I don't think your tank is big enough for salt water. > > You will need a tank, a stand, a hood (either with or without a > light), a filter system (hang-on-back is fine for that size), probably > a heater and you'll eventually want to add an air bubbler of some > sort. You don't have to put a substrate but it looks nicer. I prefer > gravel to sand because it's easier to clean. And the sky's the limit > with a background and other decorations. > > Read Lenny's site about cycling. Set up your tank, run it with water > but no fish for at least a week, and once you're sure that the water > has cycled and stabilized, THEN add fish. The 1" of fish per gallon > rule is probably close enough for that size tank but you're better off > with less than that. And that's anticipated full size fish, not the > little baby fish they'll sell you. > > What would *I* put in that 20g? "Community" tropical fish because > they're cheap and readily available at nearly every pet store. > > = About a dozen Cherry and/or Golden Barbs. (Pick BRIGHT colors, no > pale fish!) > OR > = About half a dozen Tiger Barbs. (The bigger they get, the meaner > they get.) > OR > = About a dozen Neon Tetras plus a half dozen of another larger Tetra. > (They come in a large variety of shapes, sizes and colors.) > OR > = About 8 matched Mollies. 6 females, 2 males. They are live bearers > and have sex. One quick poke and he's done! > > Oh yeah and a "stick" algae eater. > > OR (no heater needed) "Black Velvet" Moor goldfish. 2 or 3 is max for > that size because they are CHAMPION POOPERS!!! You'll have to do lots > of tank maintenance to clean up after them. > ~Kai > > > Colby wrote: > > > > what would be a good species, for a 20 gallon tank? From what you > just said, that sounds really small now, but the coffee table I have > now, is just a chopped up folding work table, so I need something else. > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45464	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Amber - I completely agree with this. I am watching what John is going through doing a reef compared to what I am going through doing fresh planted tanks, and honestly, I think it's somewhere in the range of twenty times harder! I think he's clear out of his mind attempting it. He's trying to do macro algaes and challenging corals, but still - if you don't have a ton of time for it, I think it's likely to fail. The statistics are not so good, I think 90% failure rate is what John told me. I believe it! However, a fish-only salt tank is no big deal, it's the reef tank that's so hard. So maybe a fish only salt is the way to start here... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:51 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Ahh I was just responding to the other posts suggestions on freshwater > fish, LOL. Sorry I remember him mentioning a saltwater fish now. > Honestly I would never start with a saltwater setup, I think there's a > lot more thinking involved in it and if he starts with a freshwater > setup and learns all the ins/outs safely I would then suggest > moving up > to saltwater. But this is just my suggestion. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I'm pretty sure you can't use tap for a reef tank, you have to use >> reverse osmosis as your base water to which the salt is added. My >> partner John is starting up a reef tank right now after five months >> of research, and this is what he is telling me... >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> Before we suggest what kind of fish would be good for you we really >>> should get your tap water baseline tests. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45465	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Fish only SW, is actually what I was talking about, if I do the coffee table tank, as for a reef tank, time is not an issue, as I dont need to work. "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 3:12 PM Amber - I completely agree with this. I am watching what John is going  through doing a reef compared to what I am going through doing fresh  planted tanks, and honestly, I think it's somewhere in the range of  twenty times harder! I think he's clear out of his mind attempting it. He's trying to do macro algaes and challenging corals, but still - if  you don't have a ton of time for it, I think it's likely to fail. The  statistics are not so good, I think 90% failure rate is what John  told me. I believe it! However, a fish-only salt tank is no big deal, it's the reef tank  that's so hard. So maybe a fish only salt is the way to start here... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:51 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Ahh I was just responding to the other posts suggestions on freshwater > fish, LOL. Sorry I remember him mentioning a saltwater fish now. > Honestly I would never start with a saltwater setup, I think there's a > lot more thinking involved in it and if he starts with a freshwater > setup and learns all the ins/outs safely I would then suggest  > moving up > to saltwater. But this is just my suggestion. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I'm pretty sure you can't use tap for a reef tank, you have to use >> reverse osmosis as your base water to which the salt is added. My >> partner John is starting up a reef tank right now after five months >> of research, and this is what he is telling me... >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> Before we suggest what kind of fish would be good for you we really >>> should get your tap water baseline tests. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original  > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old  > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on  > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest,  > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail  > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group  > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45466	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

OH YES! Good point! What's your tap water like? Well? City/Community water? Where are you located? (State and nearest town are enough, we don't want GPS coordinates to your house! LOL!) I'm originally from the NYC suburbs so my tap water was fluoridated and chlorinated but neutral and "tasty" to drink. Now I'm in NorthEast PA with acidic and iron-rich (and fortunately non-sulfurous) well water that we treat with an in-home system. My friends in Wyoming have very hard water so they keep African (versus South American) Cichlids. Long story short: Matching your fish to your tap water is easier than matching your tap water to your fish. ~Kai > Colby wrote: > > Funny you should mention my tap water. Just so you know, I dont drink the water here, I'm planning on putting in a drinking filter, before I get an aquarium, so I should have access to filtered water. > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I have found after getting several sizes of fish tanks that I prefer the 55 gallon or larger tanks, as once you start buying fish that are pretty/colorful/cool looking etc you find that you have no room left in your little tank and you soon have to upgrade anyways because you over bought on fish because they were just so "insert your own choice word here, LOL". I started with just a ten gallon tank, then got a 55 gallon tank and quickly over populated it and had to upgrade to a larger tank, picked up a 125 gallon tank cheaply, then bought another 55 gallon to separate my Angel fish into because they're not little Angel's at all ;) > LOL. > I have come to appreciate community fish (AKA peaceful fish) since starting my hobby again, I like loaches and cory catfish, and have come to like watching mystery snails and small shrimp as well. > > Before we suggest what kind of fish would be good for you we really should get your tap water baseline tests. Do you happen to have access to walmart nearby? You can order a master test kit on walmart.com and have it sent to the store for free for pick up (except where I live in Alaska, LOL). You'll also want something like a 5 gallon bucket (which you will put to use once you have a fish tank as well). You're going to want to know what your tap water pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates sit at before doing anything with your water for fish anyways, so it's good to know what your water baseline is before you start adding tanks and fish. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45467	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Hi Colby, One other thing you might want to consider here,Physics! If you get or build yourself a coffee table setup your water changes and general tank maintenance will make you pull your hair out! Moreover, remember one other thing, you'll only ever slightly see the sides of your beautiful addition, being mostly viewed from the top down. From your description you have the room to spare and if money is not that big of an issue, please consider a tank that is 6 foot in length and at least 125-gallon capacity. Remember one cardinal rule, fresh or salt water, the bigger the tank, the easier it is to care for. If you elect to start with salt water, do a lot of research first and second, make a trip to a large public aquarium. In their smaller display tanks you will quickly notice that all heaters, filters and general plumbing is all done via the bottom, the tanks are drilled so no piping of any kind is visible to the eye. Enjoy and keep us posted on your progress. Bill --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Colby <cbhardison@...> wrote: > From: Colby <cbhardison@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 4:35 PM > Fish only SW, is actually what I was > talking about, if I do the coffee table tank, as for a > reef tank, time is not an issue, as I dont need to work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is > the > journey that matters in the end." > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium > hobby, and very enthusiastic > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 3:12 PM > > > Amber - > > I completely agree with this. I am watching what John is > going  > through doing a reef compared to what I am going through > doing fresh  > planted tanks, and honestly, I think it's somewhere in the > range of  > twenty times harder! I think he's clear out of his mind > attempting it. > > He's trying to do macro algaes and challenging corals, but > still - if  > you don't have a ton of time for it, I think it's likely to > fail. The  > statistics are not so good, I think 90% failure rate is > what John  > told me. > > I believe it! > > However, a fish-only salt tank is no big deal, it's the > reef tank  > that's so hard. > > So maybe a fish only salt is the way to start here... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:51 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Ahh I was just responding to the other posts > suggestions on freshwater > > fish, LOL. Sorry I remember him mentioning a saltwater > fish now. > > Honestly I would never start with a saltwater setup, I > think there's a > > lot more thinking involved in it and if he starts with > a freshwater > > setup and learns all the ins/outs safely I would then > suggest  > > moving up > > to saltwater. But this is just my suggestion. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> I'm pretty sure you can't use tap for a reef tank, > you have to use > >> reverse osmosis as your base water to which the > salt is added. My > >> partner John is starting up a reef tank right now > after five months > >> of research, and this is what he is telling me... > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > >> > >>> Before we suggest what kind of fish would be > good for you we really > >>> should get your tap water baseline tests. > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45468	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

This is so important - viewing tanks from the top is no fun. At least for me, I can't really enjoy my viewing at all when looking from above. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 3, 2010, at 6:29 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Moreover, > remember one other thing, you'll only ever slightly see the sides > of your > beautiful addition, being mostly viewed from the top down. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45469	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Well, space really isnt the problem, the problem is, SUNLIGHT.  The room I have available to put it in, has a glass patio door, so it gets alot of sun.  I also have a dartboard mounted on the wall in that room, idk if that would be that big of a deal or not tho. "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 5:29 PM Hi Colby, One other thing you might want to consider here,Physics! If you get or build yourself a coffee table setup your water changes and general tank maintenance will make you pull your hair out!  Moreover, remember one other thing, you'll only ever slightly see the sides of your beautiful addition, being mostly viewed from the top down. From your description you have the room to spare and if money is not that big of an issue, please consider a tank that is 6 foot in length and at least 125-gallon capacity.  Remember one cardinal rule, fresh or salt water, the bigger the tank, the easier it is to care for.  If you elect to start with salt water, do a lot of research first and second, make a trip to a large public aquarium.  In their smaller display tanks you will quickly notice that all heaters, filters and general plumbing is all done via the bottom, the tanks are drilled so no piping of any kind is visible to the eye.  Enjoy and keep us posted on your progress. Bill --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Colby <cbhardison@...> wrote: > From: Colby <cbhardison@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 4:35 PM > Fish only SW, is actually what I was > talking about, if I do the coffee table tank, as for a > reef tank, time is not an issue, as I dont need to work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is > the > journey that matters in the end." > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium > hobby, and very enthusiastic > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 3:12 PM > > > Amber - > > I completely agree with this. I am watching what John is > going  > through doing a reef compared to what I am going through > doing fresh  > planted tanks, and honestly, I think it's somewhere in the > range of  > twenty times harder! I think he's clear out of his mind > attempting it. > > He's trying to do macro algaes and challenging corals, but > still - if  > you don't have a ton of time for it, I think it's likely to > fail. The  > statistics are not so good, I think 90% failure rate is > what John  > told me. > > I believe it! > > However, a fish-only salt tank is no big deal, it's the > reef tank  > that's so hard. > > So maybe a fish only salt is the way to start here... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:51 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Ahh I was just responding to the other posts > suggestions on freshwater > > fish, LOL. Sorry I remember him mentioning a saltwater > fish now. > > Honestly I would never start with a saltwater setup, I > think there's a > > lot more thinking involved in it and if he starts with > a freshwater > > setup and learns all the ins/outs safely I would then > suggest  > > moving up > > to saltwater. But this is just my suggestion. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> I'm pretty sure you can't use tap for a reef tank, > you have to use > >> reverse osmosis as your base water to which the > salt is added. My > >> partner John is starting up a reef tank right now > after five months > >> of research, and this is what he is telling me... > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > >> > >>> Before we suggest what kind of fish would be > good for you we really > >>> should get your tap water baseline tests. > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >       ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45470	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

I'm from Texas, you've probably never heard of the town, lol.  I'm in Vernon, and just to let you know, there arent too many humans here who even drink the town water. "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 3:41 PM OH YES!  Good point!  What's your tap water like?  Well?  City/Community water?  Where are you located?  (State and nearest town are enough, we don't want GPS coordinates to your house!  LOL!) I'm originally from the NYC suburbs so my tap water was fluoridated and chlorinated but neutral and "tasty" to drink.  Now I'm in NorthEast PA with acidic and iron-rich (and fortunately non-sulfurous) well water that we treat with an in-home system.  My friends in Wyoming have very hard water so they keep African (versus South American) Cichlids. Long story short: Matching your fish to your tap water is easier than matching your tap water to your fish. ~Kai > Colby wrote: > > Funny you should mention my tap water.  Just so you know, I dont drink the water here, I'm planning on putting in a drinking filter, before I get an aquarium, so I should have access to filtered water. > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I have found after getting several sizes of fish tanks that I prefer the 55 gallon or larger tanks, as once you start buying fish that are pretty/colorful/cool looking etc you find that you have no room left in your little tank and you soon have to upgrade anyways because you over bought on fish because they were just so "insert your own choice word here, LOL". I started with just a ten gallon tank, then got a 55 gallon tank and quickly over populated it and had to upgrade to a larger tank, picked up a 125 gallon tank cheaply, then bought another 55 gallon to separate my Angel fish into because they're not little Angel's at all ;) > LOL. > I have come to appreciate community fish (AKA peaceful fish) since starting my hobby again, I like loaches and cory catfish, and have come to like watching mystery snails and small shrimp as well. > > Before we suggest what kind of fish would be good for you we really should get your tap water baseline tests. Do you happen to have access to walmart nearby? You can order a master test kit on walmart.com and have it sent to the store for free for pick up (except where I live in Alaska, LOL). You'll also want something like a 5 gallon bucket (which you will put to use once you have a fish tank as well). You're going to want to know what your tap water pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates sit at before doing anything with your water for fish anyways, so it's good to know what your water baseline is before you start adding tanks and fish. > > Amber > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45471	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Vernon, TX. US-287. We rode that from Dallas to Amarillo one day many years ago -- so we probably went in one end and out of the other of your town. I remember the wind was SO STRONG that we had to keep steering into it to keep going straight. And I remember how bad the water tasted that night at Palo Duro State Park. No wonder you don't drink it. But your biggest problem is sunlight! Direct sunlight is a definite no-no with fish tanks. It makes the water temperature fluctuate too much. That'll kill any fish in a jiffy. Even a bright room will give you grief in terms of algae blooms. Got a nice dark nook somewhere? ~Kai > Colby wrote: > > I'm from Texas, you've probably never heard of the town, lol. I'm in Vernon, and just to let you know, there arent too many humans here who even drink the town water. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45472	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...30 - 35gal in mind

I’d be looking at a 30 – 35 gallon tank. And moving my existing tropical community into it from the 22gal I currently have.   I am willing to part with the swordtails, guppies, rasboras, glass catfish and cardinal tetras. But I am keeping my 2 bristlenose catfish.   I will also invest in a hob filter this time rather then a U/G. The U/G has given me no issues since the tank was started over 12 months ago. But now I have more room to play with.   Lenny, Amber and Bill, I am looking for an easy care species, that is… compatible with my b n catfish, does not have a restrictive/specialized diet, Not sensitive to soft or hard PH, KH water conditions, Ranges from peaceful to semi aggressive, is colourful, and above all, has personality.   I love fancy goldfish. But I know from past posts, that they require good filtration, and at least 30gal for one. Particularly the slim bodied comets and common goldies. Also being coldwater, they would need to adapt to a tropical temp in order to live with my BN, and this would have to be done gradually.   I know Bala/silver sharks can get quite big, 30cm I think. So would a 30 gal be big enough for 1, taking into account the adult size?   How about 1 red tail black shark. Or a pictus catfish maybe?   Lisa __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45473	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Colby, I've been watching this thread all day. I just looked at the link you provided and found that what you are thinking of is not what I was thinking for a coffee table aquarium. I was thinking more along the lines of those pictured here: http://www.tropicalfishstore.com/aquaticfurniture.htm Now that you are leaning to a more "normal" tank, do tend toward getting the biggest one you can afford and have room for, but, even for the room you mention, you probably want to look at something in the 50-75 gallon range to start, and learn the hobby. However, before you do this read, read, read everything you can get your hands on to increase your knowledge of the hobby, especially if you are going to keep a marine tank. There is less room for error in a marine tank than there is in a freshwater tank, at least from my perspective as a longtime freshwater hobbyist. When I got started, there were only a handful of people trying to keep marines, and they now have a much wider base of knowledge than at that time when it was thought the only way to keep marines was to live near a source of marine water. You don't mention the general area in which you live, so I can't, nor can anyone else, give you guidance to a local club that will help you out tremendously. Do a Google search to help you find one in your area. Once you have a good grasp of the basics, water chemistry, temperatures, lighting, and fish available to you, and fish you would like to keep, then, and only then start up. Anything you do not understand, or are having a problem with, feel free to ask. While we do not have many marine people here, they are here, but much of the marine side is similar enough to the freshwater side that we can easily help you with most questions, and those we do not know, we may well be able to pass along the information you need to understand. Hope you took some chemistry, at least in high school. You may want to put off the purchase of a lion fish until you have gained some experience, not so much because it is a large fish when it is an adult, but it will be the only fish you can probably keep in the tank. Also, meeting its dietary requirements may be a bit much for a novice. You can always get a tank for one later, if you decide you still want one. Remember, with proper care, most fish live a long time, especially the larger ones. The guppies you kept as a kid have an effective lifespan of 2-3 years before they deteriorate. I don't know of the lifespan of a lion fish, but it may be one of those fish you bequeath to one of your kin upon your death, hopefully many, many years from now. When you start your marine hobby, go with a fish only tank. You do not want to jump into a reef tank without some previous knowledge of keeping fishes. Fish will also be more generous when it comes to conditions not to their liking. You'll have more time to determine the problem and fix it for them than you will with corals. Corals also require pretty specific kinds of lights of a specific intensity to do well. Not all corals like the same kind of light either. Fish just need some light during the day. Also do some reading on the freshwater side. I'd feel I short changed you if I did not mention this. A lot of freshwater fish have the colors and even more interesting habits than marine fish do. Maintaining the tank will also be less expensive, just from the fact you do not need salt mixtures for your water. Whichever way you go, do not hesitate to keep asking questions until you are sure you understand what is being said. You'll hear about cycling a tank. It can be explained quite simply, but, if you really want to understand exactly what it does, I can recommend a book that talks about pretty much cycling only, but you'll need your thinking cap on and a sharp pencil and pad handy as you go through it--it does get rather difficult, especially if you are not at all inclined to science, Keep with the simple explanation whenever possible. It was brought up about knowing good information from bad. That is pretty hard for a novice to do, since, by definition, they know very little about the subject. That is why it is good to have a list like this to rely upon for help. If I say something that is wrong, believe me, I'll hear about it, and so will anyone who is on this list. And, I'll be told why I am wrong, probably in more detail than most want to read <g>. With experience, you'll be able to discern the frauds from those who know what they are talking about, and will be less likely to be taken in by poor or misinformed information. Keep in touch and let us know how it is going as well as asking questions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cbhardison Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect. I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp. I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol. Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45474	From: Colby	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Well, the darkest room I can think of other than the hallway, is my den, only window is a north facing bay window.  Plus, its got a concrete floor, so it might be better yet, if I could find room down there.   "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 6:36 PM Vernon, TX.  US-287.  We rode that from Dallas to Amarillo one day many years ago -- so we probably went in one end and out of the other of your town.  I remember the wind was SO STRONG that we had to keep steering into it to keep going straight.  And I remember how bad the water tasted that night at Palo Duro State Park.  No wonder you don't drink it. But your biggest problem is sunlight!  Direct sunlight is a definite no-no with fish tanks.  It makes the water temperature fluctuate too much.  That'll kill any fish in a jiffy.  Even a bright room will give you grief in terms of algae blooms.  Got a nice dark nook somewhere? ~Kai > Colby wrote: > > I'm from Texas, you've probably never heard of the town, lol.  I'm in Vernon, and just to let you know, there arent too many humans here who even drink the town water. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45475	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/3/2010
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...30 - 35gal in mind

I would dissuade most people from the bigger catfish, namely because they will eat anything small enough to fit in their mouth, not on purpose sometimes, just because it's their nature and it fits, LOL. Not to mention they really shouldn't be in any tanks smaller than 55 gallon due to the fact that they are fast moving and like to have their own territory, can sometimes get aggressive towards fish in their territory as well depending on the catfish. Pictus catfish for one are very sensitive to their surroundings and can be easily startled by sudden movements inside or outside their tank, and they can crash into ornaments and other fish in their hurry to get away from this unknown danger (the movement), sometimes injuring other tank inhabitants or itself in the process. These fish are not for everyone and in my own opinions from having one from a distance (parent's home), they need a lot of space to feel comfortable, and they are not pleasant to watch if they are crashing around in the tank in fear of their life. My parent's always called their spazz for this very reason ;) If you already have 2 BN pleco's that can get up to 6 inches you really shouldn't be looking at getting other bigger fish unless you're getting a tank over 55 gallons, as that would give plenty of room for your 2 existing BN pleco's, and some room for a FEW medium sized fish (medium sized being under 6 inches in my opinion), or you could get a couple schools of smaller fish, and a school a cory catfish (always one of my favorites). If you are looking for a colorful fish with a neat personality try looking at Ram's, the bolivian rams are known to be hardier, but the german ram's sure are pretty. Just make sure you get more females than males (preferably a lot more, like 1 male for 4 females), as the males get very territorial towards each other. Bolivian ram's are not quite as pretty, but they would be easier to start with, since these fish are sensitive to water parameters (they like clean water, regular water changes, very regular filter cleaning, etc), they do prefer softer water (under 7 pH) but they can be acclimated to the 7 range safely, though I feel they may not thrive so well (which is why I suggested the bolivian rams to start with, since they are hardier). Amber Lisa Lawless wrote: > > > > > I’d be looking at a 30 – 35 gallon tank. And moving my existing > tropical community into it from the 22gal I currently have. > > I am willing to part with the swordtails, guppies, rasboras, glass > catfish and cardinal tetras. But I am keeping my 2 bristlenose catfish. > > I will also invest in a hob filter this time rather then a U/G. > The U/G has given me no issues since the tank was started over 12 > months ago. But now I have more room to play with. > > Lenny, Amber and Bill, I am looking for an easy care species, that is… > compatible with my b n catfish, > does not have a restrictive/specialized diet, > Not sensitive to soft or hard PH, KH water conditions, > Ranges from peaceful to semi aggressive, > is colourful, > and above all, has personality. > > I love fancy goldfish. But I know from past posts, that they require > good filtration, and at least 30gal for one. Particularly the slim > bodied comets and common goldies. > Also being coldwater, they would need to adapt to a tropical temp in > order to live with my BN, and this would have to be done gradually. > > I know Bala/silver sharks can get quite big, 30cm I think. So would a > 30 gal be big enough for 1, taking into account the adult size? > > How about 1 red tail black shark. Or a pictus catfish maybe? > > Lisa > > __________________________________________________________ > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: > http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ > <http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45476	From: Colby	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

You might be changing my mind, for now, at least until I get a filtration system for my water.  Which species of freshwater fish would you recomend, for the optimal viewing experience?  Also, are there any books that you would recomend I read? "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 7:30 PM Colby, I've been watching this thread all day. I just looked at the link you provided and found that what you are thinking of is not what I was thinking for a coffee table aquarium. I was thinking more along the lines of those pictured here:  http://www.tropicalfishstore.com/aquaticfurniture.htm Now that you are leaning to a more "normal" tank, do tend toward getting the biggest one you can afford and have room for, but, even for the room you mention, you probably want to look at something in the 50-75 gallon range to start, and learn the hobby. However, before you do this read, read, read everything you can get your hands on to increase your knowledge of the hobby, especially if you are going to keep a marine tank. There is less room for error in a marine tank than there is in a freshwater tank, at least from my perspective as a longtime freshwater hobbyist. When I got started, there were only a handful of people trying to keep marines, and they now have a much wider base of knowledge than at that time when it was thought the only way to keep marines was to live near a source of marine water. You don't mention the general area in which you live, so I can't, nor can anyone else, give you guidance to a local club that will help you out tremendously. Do a Google search to help you find one in your area. Once you have a good grasp of the basics, water chemistry, temperatures, lighting, and fish available to you, and fish you would like to keep, then, and only then start up. Anything you do not understand, or are having a problem with, feel free to ask. While we do not have many marine people here, they are here, but much of the marine side is similar enough to the freshwater side that we can easily help you with most questions, and those we do not know, we may well be able to pass along the information you need to understand. Hope you took some chemistry, at least in high school. You may want to put off the purchase of a lion fish until you have gained some experience, not so much because it is a large fish when it is an adult, but it will be the only fish you can probably keep in the tank. Also, meeting its dietary requirements may be a bit much for a novice. You can always get a tank for one later, if you decide you still want one. Remember, with proper care, most fish live a long time, especially the larger ones. The guppies you kept as a kid have an effective lifespan of 2-3 years before they deteriorate. I don't know of the lifespan of a lion fish, but it may be one of those fish you bequeath to one of your kin upon your death, hopefully many, many years from now. When you start your marine hobby, go with a fish only tank. You do not want to jump into a reef tank without some previous knowledge of keeping fishes. Fish will also be more generous when it comes to conditions not to their liking. You'll have more time to determine the problem and fix it for them than you will with corals. Corals also require pretty specific kinds of lights of a specific intensity to do well. Not all corals like the same kind of light either. Fish just need some light during the day. Also do some reading on the freshwater side. I'd feel I short changed you if I did not mention this. A lot of freshwater fish have the colors and even more interesting habits than marine fish do. Maintaining the tank will also be less expensive, just from the fact you do not need salt mixtures for your water. Whichever way you go, do not hesitate to keep asking questions until you are sure you understand what is being said. You'll hear about cycling a tank. It can be explained quite simply, but, if you really want to understand exactly what it does, I can recommend a book that talks about pretty much cycling only, but you'll need your thinking cap on and a sharp pencil and pad handy as you go through it--it does get rather difficult, especially if you are not at all inclined to science, Keep with the simple explanation whenever possible. It was brought up about knowing good information from bad. That is pretty hard for a novice to do, since, by definition, they know very little about the subject. That is why it is good to have a list like this to rely upon for help. If I say something that is wrong, believe me, I'll hear about it, and so will anyone who is on this list. And, I'll be told why I am wrong, probably in more detail than most want to read <g>. With experience, you'll be able to discern the frauds from those who know what they are talking about, and will be less likely to be taken in by poor or misinformed information. Keep in touch and let us know how it is going as well as asking questions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cbhardison Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself.  My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect.  I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp.  I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol.  Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45477	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Colby, The book I always recommend first is the Baensch "Aquarium Atlas, Volume 1".It has a pretty good section on setting up a tank, a good, but short, section on plants, and, many, many descriptions and pictures of fish. I believe the Atlas is up to 6 volumes now, including a photo index of the 5 original volumes. The first is all you really need, however. The descriptions will give you valuable information regarding the size of the fish, pH, temperature, diet, sexual dimorphism, etc. Don't get your heart set on a particular fish though, without ascertaining that your water and the fish are compatible, and that it is locally available There is also a series of marine volumes. I would suspect that the first is as helpful as its freshwater companion, but I do not have it, so cannot affirm or deny that presumption. Perhaps someone else can. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colby Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 2:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic You might be changing my mind, for now, at least until I get a filtration system for my water.  Which species of freshwater fish would you recomend, for the optimal viewing experience?  Also, are there any books that you would recomend I read? "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is the journey that matters in the end." --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 7:30 PM Colby, I've been watching this thread all day. I just looked at the link you provided and found that what you are thinking of is not what I was thinking for a coffee table aquarium. I was thinking more along the lines of those pictured here:  http://www.tropicalfishstore.com/aquaticfurniture.htm Now that you are leaning to a more "normal" tank, do tend toward getting the biggest one you can afford and have room for, but, even for the room you mention, you probably want to look at something in the 50-75 gallon range to start, and learn the hobby. However, before you do this read, read, read everything you can get your hands on to increase your knowledge of the hobby, especially if you are going to keep a marine tank. There is less room for error in a marine tank than there is in a freshwater tank, at least from my perspective as a longtime freshwater hobbyist. When I got started, there were only a handful of people trying to keep marines, and they now have a much wider base of knowledge than at that time when it was thought the only way to keep marines was to live near a source of marine water. You don't mention the general area in which you live, so I can't, nor can anyone else, give you guidance to a local club that will help you out tremendously. Do a Google search to help you find one in your area. Once you have a good grasp of the basics, water chemistry, temperatures, lighting, and fish available to you, and fish you would like to keep, then, and only then start up. Anything you do not understand, or are having a problem with, feel free to ask. While we do not have many marine people here, they are here, but much of the marine side is similar enough to the freshwater side that we can easily help you with most questions, and those we do not know, we may well be able to pass along the information you need to understand. Hope you took some chemistry, at least in high school. You may want to put off the purchase of a lion fish until you have gained some experience, not so much because it is a large fish when it is an adult, but it will be the only fish you can probably keep in the tank. Also, meeting its dietary requirements may be a bit much for a novice. You can always get a tank for one later, if you decide you still want one. Remember, with proper care, most fish live a long time, especially the larger ones. The guppies you kept as a kid have an effective lifespan of 2-3 years before they deteriorate. I don't know of the lifespan of a lion fish, but it may be one of those fish you bequeath to one of your kin upon your death, hopefully many, many years from now. When you start your marine hobby, go with a fish only tank. You do not want to jump into a reef tank without some previous knowledge of keeping fishes. Fish will also be more generous when it comes to conditions not to their liking. You'll have more time to determine the problem and fix it for them than you will with corals. Corals also require pretty specific kinds of lights of a specific intensity to do well. Not all corals like the same kind of light either. Fish just need some light during the day. Also do some reading on the freshwater side. I'd feel I short changed you if I did not mention this. A lot of freshwater fish have the colors and even more interesting habits than marine fish do. Maintaining the tank will also be less expensive, just from the fact you do not need salt mixtures for your water. Whichever way you go, do not hesitate to keep asking questions until you are sure you understand what is being said. You'll hear about cycling a tank. It can be explained quite simply, but, if you really want to understand exactly what it does, I can recommend a book that talks about pretty much cycling only, but you'll need your thinking cap on and a sharp pencil and pad handy as you go through it--it does get rather difficult, especially if you are not at all inclined to science, Keep with the simple explanation whenever possible. It was brought up about knowing good information from bad. That is pretty hard for a novice to do, since, by definition, they know very little about the subject. That is why it is good to have a list like this to rely upon for help. If I say something that is wrong, believe me, I'll hear about it, and so will anyone who is on this list. And, I'll be told why I am wrong, probably in more detail than most want to read <g>. With experience, you'll be able to discern the frauds from those who know what they are talking about, and will be less likely to be taken in by poor or misinformed information. Keep in touch and let us know how it is going as well as asking questions. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cbhardison Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce myself.  My name is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some guppies, when I was a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got me a place big enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect.  I'll tell you right off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the volitans lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an electric eel, and maybe a sea wasp.  I plan on starting a project for my den, to build one of these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, which I thought would be kind of cool, lol.  Does anyone have any advice they could give me for starting out?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: Wanting to upsize...30 - 35gal in mind

Like Amber said, none of those BIG catfish would work in a 30G to 35G tank. You also need to measure the tank to see if it's definitely 30G to 35G and check to see if is it 30-35 U.S. Gallons or Imperial Gallons? Using a 30G (U.S.) tank and considering you are keeping your two BN Plecos, at 6" each, they would need 12G (U.S.) of water volume each (using my stocking guide formula from my blog) leaving you with only 8G of water volume to work, which isn't much. You could use the 10G tank stocking guideline and suggestions article on my blog to look over the fish you could keep... and most of those fish are compatible with a wide range of pH and hardness levels, although you should check out the individual profiles on Mongabay to make sure before buying them. It's best and easiest to stick with fish that actually prefer your type of water, rather than trying to acclimate fish that prefer a much different type of water. Do you know what your tap water baseline parameters are? I know you were supposed to have moved into a new home so giving us your water parameters will help us with suggestions. Were you going to keep the 22G tank or is this new 30G-35G going to be replacing the 22G? Another good thing, since you have one fish you are definitely going to keep... is look at the Mongabay profile on the BN Pleco and see which fish they have listed as "SC" (Suggested Companions) and then choose fish from that group. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm (Scroll down a little to the section on Bristlenose Pleco). Since your BN Plecos will be mostly bottom dwellers, you should get other fish that will inhabit the middle and upper parts of the tank so all of the fish have maximum space/territory. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 6:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Wanting to upsize...30 - 35gal in mind I’d be looking at a 30 – 35 gallon tank. And moving my existing tropical community into it from the 22gal I currently have.   I am willing to part with the swordtails, guppies, rasboras, glass catfish and cardinal tetras. But I am keeping my 2 bristlenose catfish.   I will also invest in a hob filter this time rather then a U/G. The U/G has given me no issues since the tank was started over 12 months ago. But now I have more room to play with.   Lenny, Amber and Bill, I am looking for an easy care species, that is compatible with my b n catfish, does not have a restrictive/specialized diet, Not sensitive to soft or hard PH, KH water conditions, Ranges from peaceful to semi aggressive, is colourful, and above all, has personality.   I love fancy goldfish. But I know from past posts, that they require good filtration, and at least 30gal for one. Particularly the slim bodied comets and common goldies. Also being coldwater, they would need to adapt to a tropical temp in order to live with my BN, and this would have to be done gradually.   I know Bala/silver sharks can get quite big, 30cm I think. So would a 30 gal be big enough for 1, taking into account the adult size?   How about 1 red tail black shark. Or a pictus catfish maybe?   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45479	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

You have a lot of decisions to make. :o) First, where do you want to put it? Are your main living spaces suitable? Remember, no direct sunlight! Darker is better. Or will you wind up squirreling your tank away in the dark den that sounds like you don't go there much? (Will you change your living habits to spend more time with them?) Decide how much space you're willing to dedicate to your tank and is there an outlet nearby? (There's lots of stuff to plug in.) Will you stick with your original 20g idea? Or will you pick a larger tank? I don't remember, did I say this already? A "55 gallon" tank has an actual functional capacity of about 43 gallons so tanks are not always what they claim to be. Multiply length x width x water height (all in inches) and then divide by 231 to get the actual gallon capacity of the tanks you're interested in. For a 20-30g freshwater tank, a good "hang-on-back" filter is plenty. For a 55g, I have two large HOB's -- or you could pick a canister system. Any larger, I don't know. Others will give you better advice. If you're going with fresh water, then what's your water like? As we said earlier, it's better to suit your fish to your water than vice versa. Your best resource is probably to ask a million questions of your local fish store guy. Of course he's going to want to sell you stuff so take his "product" advice with a grain of salt and research whether or not you actually need it before you buy. Chances are that whatever that local store stocks is most popular and/or successful in your area. Go browse and then research what you find and like best. If for example, Cichlids (there are a zillion varieties) are best for your local water, read all about them and decide what kind(s) you like best. (No sense in reading/researching those that aren't suitable for your water.) Whatever you decide, don't "settle." Get what you REALLY want. Get "your favorite" tank with "spectacular" fish. But also keep their habitat needs in mind. If they're bottom dwellers, pick a low tank with a large footprint instead of a tall skinny one of the same capacity. If they need flowing water, plan ahead for the necessary pumps, and tank shapes (etc.) It's best to buy in person. If you mail order, there's the added expense of shipping (and sometimes returning their empty shipper) and heaven forbid that there's a problem... dead or injured fish, not as nice as what you expected, etc. If you have your heart set on something "exotic," you might have to deal with breeders. Best found through fish clubs or breed-specific web sites? Go browsing and c'mon back with a better idea of what you want from what's available and suitable for your area. ~Kai > Colby wrote: > > You might be changing my mind, for now, at least until I get a filtration system for my water. Which species of freshwater fish would you recomend, for the optimal viewing experience? Also, are there any books that you would recomend I read? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45480	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Don't shy away from having fish shipped to you, if it's something you really want to have. I have had fish shipped to me several times because I live on an island in Alaska and my local fish store has horrid selection (not to mention the health of their fish is often a concern, and the fish are all shipped in through the airlines anyways). I figure if you're going to get a fish that's being shipped to your LFS you may as well just have it shipped directly to you, properly acclimate your new fish in your new (cycled) fish tank, and it should be just as healthy if not more healthy than the fish at your LFS. Just remember to quarantine new fish if you don't purchase them all from the same supplier/tanks. It's always good to have a 10 gallon hospital/quarantine tank on hand in case anything goes wrong or a fish doesn't look healthy and you want to separate it from the rest of your fish to treat it safely. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > You have a lot of decisions to make. :o) > > First, where do you want to put it? Are your main living spaces > suitable? Remember, no direct sunlight! Darker is better. Or will you > wind up squirreling your tank away in the dark den that sounds like > you don't go there much? (Will you change your living habits to spend > more time with them?) Decide how much space you're willing to dedicate > to your tank and is there an outlet nearby? (There's lots of stuff to > plug in.) > > Will you stick with your original 20g idea? Or will you pick a larger > tank? I don't remember, did I say this already? A "55 gallon" tank has > an actual functional capacity of about 43 gallons so tanks are not > always what they claim to be. Multiply length x width x water height > (all in inches) and then divide by 231 to get the actual gallon > capacity of the tanks you're interested in. > > For a 20-30g freshwater tank, a good "hang-on-back" filter is plenty. > For a 55g, I have two large HOB's -- or you could pick a canister > system. Any larger, I don't know. Others will give you better advice. > > If you're going with fresh water, then what's your water like? As we > said earlier, it's better to suit your fish to your water than vice > versa. Your best resource is probably to ask a million questions of > your local fish store guy. Of course he's going to want to sell you > stuff so take his "product" advice with a grain of salt and research > whether or not you actually need it before you buy. Chances are that > whatever that local store stocks is most popular and/or successful in > your area. Go browse and then research what you find and like best. If > for example, Cichlids (there are a zillion varieties) are best for > your local water, read all about them and decide what kind(s) you like > best. (No sense in reading/researching those that aren't suitable for > your water.) > > Whatever you decide, don't "settle." Get what you REALLY want. Get > "your favorite" tank with "spectacular" fish. But also keep their > habitat needs in mind. If they're bottom dwellers, pick a low tank > with a large footprint instead of a tall skinny one of the same > capacity. If they need flowing water, plan ahead for the necessary > pumps, and tank shapes (etc.) > > It's best to buy in person. If you mail order, there's the added > expense of shipping (and sometimes returning their empty shipper) and > heaven forbid that there's a problem... dead or injured fish, not as > nice as what you expected, etc. If you have your heart set on > something "exotic," you might have to deal with breeders. Best found > through fish clubs or breed-specific web sites? > > Go browsing and c'mon back with a better idea of what you want from > what's available and suitable for your area. > ~Kai > > > Colby wrote: > > > > You might be changing my mind, for now, at least until I get a > filtration system for my water. Which species of freshwater fish would > you recomend, for the optimal viewing experience? Also, are there any > books that you would recomend I read? > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45481	From: redlips152003	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Need Help- New to this

Hi. So I just acquired a pink kissing gourami about 2 weeks ago. My sisters friend had bought the fish for her in the first week of December. She had kept Puff (gouramis name) in a bowl and he didn't move or eat she then bought a 2nd pink kissing gourami who died wiht in 34 hours, she came home from college. I took the liberty of going to Pet Smart to find out what was going on (I thought they would give me the correct info). So Puff needed a filter, heater and tank all of which I bought. I got a 10 gallon tank and they allowed me to buy 1 pink kissing gourami, 1 blue dwarf gourami and 2 rainbow sharks (one albino one black). SO I set them all up etc.. and did some more research online and bought a book. Turns out I'm doing this ALL WRONG. Puff will apparently grow pretty big. I also didn't realize there was a nitrogen cycle the tank needed to go through. The 2 sharks are also agressive and though they were just babies they had already started to pick on eachother and Puff started to pick on the other 2 gouramis (flash and violet). So I decided to take all the fish I bought back to the store for their safety. Puff is already about 2 inches or so, I know I need to buy a larger tank ( I read at lesat 75 gallons). and I am working on that, I posted ADs online since I can't afford to go out and buy a new one. I haven't had to much luck yet. If anyone knows of a tank for sale in newark delaware area please let me know. I also had a few questions about the cycle. The ammiona levels are high and the PH is high. The ammonia levels are at 2.0 and the PH is high at 8.0. I have been chaning 50% of the water every other day. I also just bought ammo-lock and a PH lower. I just put some of the ammo-lock in yesterday (I still have to test the levels). The filter also gets dirty very quickly and actually stinkcs, we had the first filter in for 2.5 weeks and I just put a new one in yesterday. I put some fish water in a bucket with the old filter and put the new filter in the bucket and let it sit there and soak to get some of the bacteria on it. I don't want to kill Puff and I just don't know what else to do! Should I use the PH lower today? On the bottle of the ammo-lock it says to use it ever other day, I know it's a temporary fix- but should I use it again tomorrow? Also, once I do get a new tank. What should I do to get the cycle started? Should I buy some platies or another type of fish? Or should I use some products to help get the cycle started. I know I should use some gravel from the 10 gallont ank and etc.. Also, Puff is pretty agressive. What type of fish would I be able to mix in the new tank with him after everything gets on the right track. I really like the upside down catfish, pleco ( though I know they get huge), would a bristlenose pleco be ok in the tank? Any info you can give me would help me. Please don't send any rude e-mails, I am doing the best I can. I saved this fish from a sure death. Puff is very strong fish and surveived over 1 month in a bowl, he seems to be doing pretty well in the tank now though I know the ammonia could kill him at anytime. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45482	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic

Hi Colby, Your questions are simple but complicated to answer. The fish "type" goes to what kind of water parameters you have. For instance low pH 5.5 to 5.8, things like this are very important if you want to be successful your first time out. You should get an API Master Test kit (very cheap investment at under $25 bucks) and check your tap water and record the information. Things like the GH (general hardness, pH value) are all very important to both yourself and the fish you would like to keep. After you have these numbers,then you simply check to see which fish types match these figures. The next thing would be the actual size of the aquarium you're working with.. The 6 foot tanks I mentioned before at 125, 150-gallons or so offer many advantages as well as type of fish, Oscars for instance are just like a puppy only with fins, and sometimes every bit as naughty. They are "people" fish and will respond to you quickly. Bill --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Colby <cbhardison@...> wrote: > From: Colby <cbhardison@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and very enthusiastic > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 2:12 AM > You might be changing my mind, for > now, at least until I get a filtration system for my > water.  Which species of freshwater fish would you > recomend, for the optimal viewing experience?  Also, are > there any books that you would recomend I read? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "It is good to have an end to journey towards, but it is > the > journey that matters in the end." > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, > and very enthusiastic > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 7:30 PM > > > Colby, > > I've been watching this thread all day. I just looked at > the link you > provided and found that what you are thinking of is not > what I was thinking > for a coffee table aquarium. I was thinking more along the > lines of those > pictured here:  http://www.tropicalfishstore.com/aquaticfurniture.htm > > Now that you are leaning to a more "normal" tank, do tend > toward getting the > biggest one you can afford and have room for, but, even for > the room you > mention, you probably want to look at something in the > 50-75 gallon range to > start, and learn the hobby. However, before you do this > read, read, read > everything you can get your hands on to increase your > knowledge of the > hobby, especially if you are going to keep a marine tank. > There is less room > for error in a marine tank than there is in a freshwater > tank, at least from > my perspective as a longtime freshwater hobbyist. When I > got started, there > were only a handful of people trying to keep marines, and > they now have a > much wider base of knowledge than at that time when it was > thought the only > way to keep marines was to live near a source of marine > water. > > You don't mention the general area in which you live, so I > can't, nor can > anyone else, give you guidance to a local club that will > help you out > tremendously. Do a Google search to help you find one in > your area. > > Once you have a good grasp of the basics, water chemistry, > temperatures, > lighting, and fish available to you, and fish you would > like to keep, then, > and only then start up. Anything you do not understand, or > are having a > problem with, feel free to ask. While we do not have many > marine people > here, they are here, but much of the marine side is similar > enough to the > freshwater side that we can easily help you with most > questions, and those > we do not know, we may well be able to pass along the > information you need > to understand. Hope you took some chemistry, at least in > high school. > > You may want to put off the purchase of a lion fish until > you have gained > some experience, not so much because it is a large fish > when it is an adult, > but it will be the only fish you can probably keep in the > tank. Also, > meeting its dietary requirements may be a bit much for a > novice. You can > always get a tank for one later, if you decide you still > want one. > > Remember, with proper care, most fish live a long time, > especially the > larger ones. The guppies you kept as a kid have an > effective lifespan of 2-3 > years before they deteriorate. I don't know of the lifespan > of a lion fish, > but it may be one of those fish you bequeath to one of your > kin upon your > death, hopefully many, many years from now. > > When you start your marine hobby, go with a fish only tank. > You do not want > to jump into a reef tank without some previous knowledge of > keeping fishes. > Fish will also be more generous when it comes to conditions > not to their > liking. You'll have more time to determine the problem and > fix it for them > than you will with corals. Corals also require pretty > specific kinds of > lights of a specific intensity to do well. Not all corals > like the same kind > of light either. Fish just need some light during the day. > > Also do some reading on the freshwater side. I'd feel I > short changed you if > I did not mention this. A lot of freshwater fish have the > colors and even > more interesting habits than marine fish do. Maintaining > the tank will also > be less expensive, just from the fact you do not need salt > mixtures for your > water. > > Whichever way you go, do not hesitate to keep asking > questions until you are > sure you understand what is being said. You'll hear about > cycling a tank. It > can be explained quite simply, but, if you really want to > understand exactly > what it does, I can recommend a book that talks about > pretty much cycling > only, but you'll need your thinking cap on and a sharp > pencil and pad handy > as you go through it--it does get rather difficult, > especially if you are > not at all inclined to science, Keep with the simple > explanation whenever > possible. > > It was brought up about knowing good information from bad. > That is pretty > hard for a novice to do, since, by definition, they know > very little about > the subject. That is why it is good to have a list like > this to rely upon > for help. If I say something that is wrong, believe me, > I'll hear about it, > and so will anyone who is on this list. And, I'll be told > why I am wrong, > probably in more detail than most want to read <g>. > With experience, you'll > be able to discern the frauds from those who know what they > are talking > about, and will be less likely to be taken in by poor or > misinformed > information. > > Keep in touch and let us know how it is going as well as > asking questions. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of cbhardison > Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:38 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] sort of new to aquarium hobby, and > very enthusiastic > > Hi, I just joined last night, and I thought I'd introduce > myself.  My name > is Colby, and I'm 26 years old, and other than just some > guppies, when I was > a kid, I'm fairly new to the aquarium hobby, but I just got > me a place big > enough to really indulge in the whole aquarist aspect.  > I'll tell you right > off, I am very interested in predatory species, namely, the > volitans > lionfish, and eventually working up the papers to own an > electric eel, and > maybe a sea wasp.  I plan on starting a project for my > den, to build one of > these: www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Coffee-Table, > which I thought would > be kind of cool, lol.  Does anyone have any advice they > could give me for > starting out? > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45483	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Help- New to this

Hi Redlips, Whew... where do we start. Please don't consider any of this or any other replies as rude. We are empathetic to your issues but sometimes when you are reading an email or forum post, you cannot see what we are feeling and you only see the words. I don't do a lot of ooohing and aahhhing and I'm so sorrying type replies... more like Dragnet... "Just the facts, Maam!". ;-) First, go to my blog, http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com, and read my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you quit making this common mistake. DO NOT trash your old filter cartridges, like you've done, as that is where the overwhelming majority of your nitrifying bacteria live so when you throw it away, you are killing off all of your good bacteria which will throw your tank back into a new cycle or mini-cycle with ammonia, nitrite issues. I know the filter companies all say to change it out every 2-4 weeks but they are just trying to sell you filters and probably sell other bottled crap and medicines to get more of your money when their filter changing advice causes you other problems. While at my blog, look at the "A To Z Of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the FREE online tutorials, linked near the top of that page, which will walk you through all of the basics of fishkeeping and how to get started. These two tutorials will answer the majority of any questions you may have and cover the Nitrogen Cycle, basic water chemistry, etc. Now, to some of your specific questions. As you already know, you are having MAJOR newbie issues, everything from cycling issues to overstocking issues to incompatibility issues. If you are going to keep your 10G tank, while at my blog, look at the "10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions" article which will explain which fish are suited for a 10G tank and for the most part, no other fish, except for that list should ever be kept in a 10G tank for long term purposes. A 10G tank is a perfectly good tank for quarantining new fish and/or treating sick fish at a later date. In the interim, while looking for your new/used BIG tank, bring back all of the fish that PetsMart sold you as they should have never sold them to you when they knew you only had a 10G tank. None of your fish, except for maybe the dwarf gourami, would fit in a 10G tank and then the dwarf gourami would not have much else in with it in a 10G tank. If needed, talk to a manager to MAKE them take back all those other fish and get a refund. Now, once you are down to just the juvenile Pink Kissing Gourami, which will not be able to live long term in the 10G either, but will be OK for a short term while you find a bigger tank. (OOPS... disregard this. I just noticed that you did already bring them back. Hint... use more paragraphs in the future. ;-)) With only the one fish in the 10G, you will not have all of the filter cleaning issues, ammonia issues, nitrite issues, etc. that you are now having. If you try to keep all of the fish, you will cause serious health issues to all of the fish. The Ammo-lock product is OK but it would have been better if you got Seachem's Prime since it is a much better ammonia/nitrite neutralizing product. Especially since you have such a high pH, you cannot afford any ammonia to build up. Also, add a pinch of salt (just regular table salt) to the tank as that will help protect against nitrite poisoning. Bring back the pH down stuff and remember this general rule... 95% of the bottled crap that they sell at pet stores is just that... bottled crap. The only thing most people need is a simple and basic dechlor product. In your case, right now, get the Seachem Prime, which is a dechlorinator and also will detoxify your ammonia issues. In the future, the Top Fin Tap Water Dechlorinator is a decent product that is available at PetsMart. Do not buy any of the stress-this or slime-that type products... they are all just added chemicals that people and fish do not need. If the PetsMart will not let you switch out the Ammo-lock for Prime, then use the Ammo-lock and yes, you will have to use it as needed to keep the ammonia from becoming an issue. With a high pH, ammonia becomes VERY TOXIC. For example, with a low pH down in the 6's, you could have 4ppm of ammonia and not be toxic but with a pH of 8.0, even 0.25ppm of ammonia is toxic. You may have to do daily PWC's (25% partial water changes) as needed to keep the ammonia from building up while you finish cycling the tank. Not trashing the filters from now on will speed the cycling along much faster. For finding a new/used BIG tank, check Craigslist.org (the for sale ads and the free stuff ads) in your area and also check your local FreeCycle.org Yahoo Group for someone giving away a tank and also post a wanted ad on both of those sites. Do you have a water test kit OR are you relying on PetsMart to test your water? If using PetsMart, get ALL of the numbers from them from each time they test your water and keep a log for us/you. If you do not already have a Master Test Kit, go to Walmart.com and order either the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or the Tetratest-Laborette Master Test Kit. Either of them are under $17.00, with free shipping to your local Walmart... usually about 1/2 the price you'll pay at PetsMart. Depending on which kit you get, you will have to supplement the kit. With the API kit, you'll need to eventually add on the GH & KH Combo Test Kit. With the T-L Kit, you'll have to add on the API Nitrate test kit. The other thing you NEED to do is check your tap water baseline. See the article on my blog, "Find Your Tap Water Baseline", and you can even do this using PetsMart to test the water, if you do not have your own test kit. Just get numbers from them, not "It's good" or "It's OK" type answers. Those tell us nothing since we do not know if the PetsMart person knows what actually is good or OK. Last but not least, sign your name next time so we don't have to call you redlips. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of redlips152003 Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 8:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Help- New to this Hi. So I just acquired a pink kissing gourami about 2 weeks ago. My sisters friend had bought the fish for her in the first week of December. She had kept Puff (gouramis name) in a bowl and he didn't move or eat she then bought a 2nd pink kissing gourami who died wiht in 34 hours, she came home from college. I took the liberty of going to Pet Smart to find out what was going on (I thought they would give me the correct info). So Puff needed a filter, heater and tank all of which I bought. I got a 10 gallon tank and they allowed me to buy 1 pink kissing gourami, 1 blue dwarf gourami and 2 rainbow sharks (one albino one black). SO I set them all up etc.. and did some more research online and bought a book. Turns out I'm doing this ALL WRONG. Puff will apparently grow pretty big. I also didn't realize there was a nitrogen cycle the tank needed to go through. The 2 sharks are also agressive and though they were just babies they had already started to pick on eachother and Puff started to pick on the other 2 gouramis (flash and violet). So I decided to take all the fish I bought back to the store for their safety. Puff is already about 2 inches or so, I know I need to buy a larger tank ( I read at lesat 75 gallons). and I am working on that, I posted ADs online since I can't afford to go out and buy a new one. I haven't had to much luck yet. If anyone knows of a tank for sale in newark delaware area please let me know. I also had a few questions about the cycle. The ammiona levels are high and the PH is high. The ammonia levels are at 2.0 and the PH is high at 8.0. I have been chaning 50% of the water every other day. I also just bought ammo-lock and a PH lower. I just put some of the ammo-lock in yesterday (I still have to test the levels). The filter also gets dirty very quickly and actually stinkcs, we had the first filter in for 2.5 weeks and I just put a new one in yesterday. I put some fish water in a bucket with the old filter and put the new filter in the bucket and let it sit there and soak to get some of the bacteria on it. I don't want to kill Puff and I just don't know what else to do! Should I use the PH lower today? On the bottle of the ammo-lock it says to use it ever other day, I know it's a temporary fix- but should I use it again tomorrow? Also, once I do get a new tank. What should I do to get the cycle started? Should I buy some platies or another type of fish? Or should I use some products to help get the cycle started. I know I should use some gravel from the 10 gallont ank and etc.. Also, Puff is pretty agressive. What type of fish would I be able to mix in the new tank with him after everything gets on the right track. I really like the upside down catfish, pleco ( though I know they get huge), would a bristlenose pleco be ok in the tank? Any info you can give me would help me. Please don't send any rude e-mails, I am doing the best I can. I saved this fish from a sure death. Puff is very strong fish and surveived over 1 month in a bowl, he seems to be doing pretty well in the tank now though I know the ammonia could kill him at anytime. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45484	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Help- New to this

Besides all of Lenny's great advice I just wanted to add one thing. You might want to start doing your water changes daily, and in not so high of a volume. Try not to change out more than 20% at a time for right now, in case your tap water is very different from your tank water (which it should be since the Ammonia is so high). If you can do 2 water changes a day at 10-15% that would be even better, but do them at least an hour apart or you can overly stress your fish and that could cause more health issues. It's a good thing you started to do more research, it will save you money and heartbreak in the end, this way you hopefully shouldn't have to purchase all new fish when the old ones all died from Ammonia poisoning (a common newbie mistake which I myself made, LOL). Amber redlips152003 wrote: > > Hi. So I just acquired a pink kissing gourami about 2 weeks ago. My > sisters friend had bought the fish for her in the first week of > December. She had kept Puff (gouramis name) in a bowl and he didn't > move or eat she then bought a 2nd pink kissing gourami who died wiht > in 34 hours, she came home from college. I took the liberty of going > to Pet Smart to find out what was going on (I thought they would give > me the correct info). So Puff needed a filter, heater and tank all of > which I bought. I got a 10 gallon tank and they allowed me to buy 1 > pink kissing gourami, 1 blue dwarf gourami and 2 rainbow sharks (one > albino one black). SO I set them all up etc.. and did some more > research online and bought a book. Turns out I'm doing this ALL WRONG. > Puff will apparently grow pretty big. I also didn't realize there was > a nitrogen cycle the tank needed to go through. The 2 sharks are also > agressive and though they were just babies they had already started to > pick on eachother and Puff started to pick on the other 2 gouramis > (flash and violet). So I decided to take all the fish I bought back to > the store for their safety. Puff is already about 2 inches or so, I > know I need to buy a larger tank ( I read at lesat 75 gallons). and I > am working on that, I posted ADs online since I can't afford to go out > and buy a new one. I haven't had to much luck yet. If anyone knows of > a tank for sale in newark delaware area please let me know. > > I also had a few questions about the cycle. > > The ammiona levels are high and the PH is high. The ammonia levels are > at 2.0 and the PH is high at 8.0. I have been chaning 50% of the water > every other day. I also just bought ammo-lock and a PH lower. I just > put some of the ammo-lock in yesterday (I still have to test the > levels). The filter also gets dirty very quickly and actually stinkcs, > we had the first filter in for 2.5 weeks and I just put a new one in > yesterday. I put some fish water in a bucket with the old filter and > put the new filter in the bucket and let it sit there and soak to get > some of the bacteria on it. I don't want to kill Puff and I just don't > know what else to do! Should I use the PH lower today? On the bottle > of the ammo-lock it says to use it ever other day, I know it's a > temporary fix- but should I use it again tomorrow? > > Also, once I do get a new tank. What should I do to get the cycle > started? Should I buy some platies or another type of fish? Or should > I use some products to help get the cycle started. I know I should use > some gravel from the 10 gallont ank and etc.. > > Also, Puff is pretty agressive. What type of fish would I be able to > mix in the new tank with him after everything gets on the right track. > I really like the upside down catfish, pleco ( though I know they get > huge), would a bristlenose pleco be ok in the tank? > > Any info you can give me would help me. Please don't send any rude > e-mails, I am doing the best I can. I saved this fish from a sure > death. Puff is very strong fish and surveived over 1 month in a bowl, > he seems to be doing pretty well in the tank now though I know the > ammonia could kill him at anytime. > > Thank you. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45485	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Help- New to this

Lenny has already posted a lot of good information for you to digest. You kind of got off on the wrong foot, but now that you are reading, and managed to get the fish back to the store, you now have some time to get things right. While a 10 gallon tank can be useful, it is not really the best size to start with, but stores push it like it is. This is probably one of the reasons why many people start, but few continue. You say you have your eyes on a 75 gallon, but your budget cannot really afford a tank of that size. Two good sources of equipment are freecycle, look at www.freecycle.org to see if there is a group in your area, and join it. The freecycle groups I belong to require that you give before you ask, so you can get rid of some of the stuff you have laying around before posting for a large tank. Just watch out that you don't grab a lot of stuff that will decrease your room for a large tank <g>. The largest tank I've seen on freecycle has been 55 gallon tanks. Your mileage may vary. Craig's List is the other place to look. Unlike Freecycle, the tanks listed here will likely cost you some money. If you are paying for a tank, ask if you can see it with water in it. This is to ensure it does not leak. While a leak is not necessarily a deal breaker, it certainly would be a dealing point to reduce the cost of the tank, which you can reseal upon getting it home (not a particularly hard task, but it must be done the right way). If it is a free tank, you'll need to do a leak test yourself. Just place the tank so it is level, off the ground is better, and partially fill it with water, and wait a day--no leak, put some more water in, and repeat the process until full or a leak is discovered. If the leak test is negative--no leaks--then you are ready to set up the tank. We can get into the details of this when you are ready. You will find that most of the experienced people here will recommend a fishless cycle to get the nitrogen cycle started, but there are other ways to do this. In the meanwhile, keep reading, and post here with the questions you are bound to have. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of redlips152003 Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Help- New to this Hi. So I just acquired a pink kissing gourami about 2 weeks ago. My sisters friend had bought the fish for her in the first week of December. She had kept Puff (gouramis name) in a bowl and he didn't move or eat she then bought a 2nd pink kissing gourami who died wiht in 34 hours, she came home from college. I took the liberty of going to Pet Smart to find out what was going on (I thought they would give me the correct info). So Puff needed a filter, heater and tank all of which I bought. I got a 10 gallon tank and they allowed me to buy 1 pink kissing gourami, 1 blue dwarf gourami and 2 rainbow sharks (one albino one black). SO I set them all up etc.. and did some more research online and bought a book. Turns out I'm doing this ALL WRONG. Puff will apparently grow pretty big. I also didn't realize there was a nitrogen cycle the tank needed to go through. The 2 sharks are also agressive and though they were just babies they had already started to pick on eachother and Puff started to pick on the other 2 gouramis (flash and violet). So I decided to take all the fish I bought back to the store for their safety. Puff is already about 2 inches or so, I know I need to buy a larger tank ( I read at lesat 75 gallons). and I am working on that, I posted ADs online since I can't afford to go out and buy a new one. I haven't had to much luck yet. If anyone knows of a tank for sale in newark delaware area please let me know. I also had a few questions about the cycle. The ammiona levels are high and the PH is high. The ammonia levels are at 2.0 and the PH is high at 8.0. I have been chaning 50% of the water every other day. I also just bought ammo-lock and a PH lower. I just put some of the ammo-lock in yesterday (I still have to test the levels). The filter also gets dirty very quickly and actually stinkcs, we had the first filter in for 2.5 weeks and I just put a new one in yesterday. I put some fish water in a bucket with the old filter and put the new filter in the bucket and let it sit there and soak to get some of the bacteria on it. I don't want to kill Puff and I just don't know what else to do! Should I use the PH lower today? On the bottle of the ammo-lock it says to use it ever other day, I know it's a temporary fix- but should I use it again tomorrow? Also, once I do get a new tank. What should I do to get the cycle started? Should I buy some platies or another type of fish? Or should I use some products to help get the cycle started. I know I should use some gravel from the 10 gallont ank and etc.. Also, Puff is pretty agressive. What type of fish would I be able to mix in the new tank with him after everything gets on the right track. I really like the upside down catfish, pleco ( though I know they get huge), would a bristlenose pleco be ok in the tank? Any info you can give me would help me. Please don't send any rude e-mails, I am doing the best I can. I saved this fish from a sure death. Puff is very strong fish and surveived over 1 month in a bowl, he seems to be doing pretty well in the tank now though I know the ammonia could kill him at anytime. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45486	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Clicking sound from heater

Okay so I couldn't remember if we determined that clicking from a heater is normal, or bad. Should I buy a spare for the tank to have on hand? It's the heater that comes in the 55 gallon walmart setup kits, so perhaps it's a cheap brand and it's about to die on me? I noticed it making a clicking noise last night and this afternoon when I was walking past, it only clicks when it's turning on after having been off for a little while (light comes on and heater starts clicking right afterwards), once heater seems to be warmed up the clicking stops. Is it just the heating element clicking on? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45487	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Clicking sound from heater

Most probably Amber, but I'd give it a weary eye and in the mean time--------have a spare handy just in case! Remember, they will only ever go Kaput on Holidays, when the stores are all closed and of course, my personal favorite, in the middle of the night. Bill --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clicking sound from heater > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 5:42 PM > Okay so I couldn't remember if we > determined that clicking from a heater > is normal, or bad. Should I buy a spare for the tank to > have on hand? > It's the heater that comes in the 55 gallon walmart setup > kits, so > perhaps it's a cheap brand and it's about to die on me? > I noticed it making a clicking noise last night and this > afternoon when > I was walking past, it only clicks when it's turning on > after having > been off for a little while (light comes on and heater > starts clicking > right afterwards), once heater seems to be warmed up the > clicking stops. > Is it just the heating element clicking on? > > Amber > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45488	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Clicking sound from heater

I know Bill, I swear there's little gremlins hiding in the dark corners/cupboards that come out at night to break things, like pipes that spring a leak at 2 am inside the wall where you don't have access to the water main shut off and you have to call 911 to have the fire department come turn the water off. Or my most recent predicament, the filter intake broke off of the filter and water was pouring out of my 125 gallon tank onto the floor, or rather the canister filter was PUMPING water out onto the floor, then hubby unplugged it and gravity did the rest of the work, LOL. Nasty little gremlins I tell ya ;) LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Most probably Amber, but I'd give it a weary eye and > in the mean time--------have a spare handy just in case! > Remember, they will only ever go Kaput on Holidays, when > the stores are all closed and of course, my personal favorite, > in the middle of the night. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clicking sound from heater > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 5:42 PM > > Okay so I couldn't remember if we > > determined that clicking from a heater > > is normal, or bad. Should I buy a spare for the tank to > > have on hand? > > It's the heater that comes in the 55 gallon walmart setup > > kits, so > > perhaps it's a cheap brand and it's about to die on me? > > I noticed it making a clicking noise last night and this > > afternoon when > > I was walking past, it only clicks when it's turning on > > after having > > been off for a little while (light comes on and heater > > starts clicking > > right afterwards), once heater seems to be warmed up the > > clicking stops. > > Is it just the heating element clicking on? > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Clicking sound from heater

I think the clicking is normal on some heaters and not on others. Depends on its thermostat. Of course, this should only result in a single click as the metal strips connect to turn on a mechanical thermostat. If you are hearing multiple clicks, it could just be that the temperature is at a point where the thermostat gets *confused* as to whether it should be on or off. I just did a Google Image search and found this article that shows two heaters.. one with mechanical (metal strips) on top and the other with an electronic thermostat (circuit board). http://www.beananimal.com/articles/aquarium-heaters-what-you-need-to-know!.a spx I haven't read the rest of the article but since it had the best drawings, I would hope the rest of the article is reliable. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Clicking sound from heater Okay so I couldn't remember if we determined that clicking from a heater is normal, or bad. Should I buy a spare for the tank to have on hand? It's the heater that comes in the 55 gallon walmart setup kits, so perhaps it's a cheap brand and it's about to die on me? I noticed it making a clicking noise last night and this afternoon when I was walking past, it only clicks when it's turning on after having been off for a little while (light comes on and heater starts clicking right afterwards), once heater seems to be warmed up the clicking stops. Is it just the heating element clicking on? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45490	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Another Question About Brass Wire

I want to use some brass wire to wire together a driftwood arrangement to sink into my 100G tall hex. Any issue qith using bras wire? More questions to come, I am sure! Thanks Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45491	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Malaysian Trumpet Snails

Any advice on the aforementioned snails? I wanted to know if boiling plastic plants that came from a tank infested with Malaysian Trumpet Snails will kill off any seriously eensy weensy ones LOL As an aside, said plants have been out of the tank for at least 8 months. I know these guys are live bearers so eggs are not the issue....can the little ones live that long without water? All over the internet not one site talks about their longevity outside the aquarium....people seem to love 'em, though. I know they can be very beneficial for the planted tank, but I am using artifical plants & guess I am just not a snail person :-) Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45492	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Another Question About Brass Wire

Clare, I would not use brass wire in the aquarium since it contains the toxic metal, Copper. Many metals will dissolve in the water column over time, even though the rate of this would depend in part by the pH. Still, an old method of treating the disease -- Velvet -- was to drop a single penny into the tank and allow enough copper to dissolve from it to kill off this disease. This only took a matter of several days for a sufficient amount of ppm's of this metal to dissolve to eradicate this Protozoan (in this case, a Dinoflagellate containing chlorophyll) which shows how fast this metal can dissolve. Over the long term, and even with PWC's, eventually sufficient quantities of the metal can build up to the point of affecting the well being of higher life forms in the aquarium. While the effects will not initially be lethal to fish, if the copper level becomes high enough it will become toxic to them, and harmful to their health. Depending on the amount of brass wire you were intending to use, its toxicity to fish may not be seen until another 6 months or perhaps even a year, but as this driftwood arrangement will be a permanent part of your aquarium decor, you may even have forgotten that you used brass wire when you suddenly start having "unexplained" health issues with you fish. You would be a lot safer if you were to use heavy (12 to 15 pound) nylon monofilament fishing line to bind together your driftwood arrangement. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45493	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Another Question About Brass Wire

Brass is made by melting copper and zinc and mixing them, mostly copper... so the answer is no, do not use it. If you use a decent quality stainless steel wire, that would be OK. You can also use nylon fishing string to tie the pieces together or aquarium safe silicone to glue the pieces together but remember that over time, the driftwood will slowly decay, or you may get a pleco that actually gnaws on the wood to wear it down, so the clear nylon fishing line would probably be best and if you see it starting to loosen over time, you could use a new piece to tighten things up whereas, if the silicone starts to come loose, you will have a much harder time. I guess with the stainless steel wire, if things loosen up, you could give it an extra twist also so it would be good as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Another Question About Brass Wire I want to use some brass wire to wire together a driftwood arrangement to sink into my 100G tall hex. Any issue qith using bras wire? More questions to come, I am sure! Thanks Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails

Since the plastic plants have been out of water for eight months, you probably do not have anything to worry about. IMO, MTS are one of the more acceptable *nuisance* snails since they are not as prolific of breeders as common pond snail types. Most snails are opportunistic breeders so they really only excessively breed if there is an excessive amount of food for them to eat (same as planaria flat worms) so I kind of consider them a bellwether to remind us that we might not be vacuuming our gravel enough or maybe over feeding our fish. For folks that choose a sandy type or very small grain substrate, MTS are really good as they are burrowing snails and will keep the substrate turned so that it does not develop anaerobic pockets. They are actually as good in an unplanted tank as a planted tank since the roots of the plants will help to keep the sandy type substrate from getting compacted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Malaysian Trumpet Snails Any advice on the aforementioned snails? I wanted to know if boiling plastic plants that came from a tank infested with Malaysian Trumpet Snails will kill off any seriously eensy weensy ones LOL As an aside, said plants have been out of the tank for at least 8 months. I know these guys are live bearers so eggs are not the issue....can the little ones live that long without water? All over the internet not one site talks about their longevity outside the aquarium....people seem to love 'em, though. I know they can be very beneficial for the planted tank, but I am using artifical plants & guess I am just not a snail person :-) Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45495	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails

Clare, No doubt that boiling your plastic plants would kill any small Maylasian Trumpet Snails. I would think that at this same time, you might be left with a molten blob of plastic at the bottom of your pot which would be the remnants of these plants -- or if not totally melted, might well be quite misshapened. I believe you would do better to disinfect the plastic plants in the same manner as you would disinfect live plants for any snail hitch-hikers, but without the restricted amounts of the agents necessary to kill snails with still keeping live plants viable. -- either with bleach, alum or hydrogen peroxide. If the pigments in your plastic plants are not color-fast, you may need to limited the amount of bleach used only to that quantity meant for use with live plants though -- 1 part per 19 parts water -- although the color of most plastic plants is an integral part of the plastic and shouldn't be affected. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45496	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Let There Be Light!

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/%20Planted%20Tank%20Info/ Let There Be Light! Copyright 2000 by George and Karla Booth Note: In case you get bored before you get to the end of this article, I would like to recommend Aquarium Hobbyist Supply as a most excellent source of compact fluorescent lighting kits and supplies. The owner, Kim, has gone out of his way to develop a superb series of lighting kits to suit any need. If you are retrofitting a standard canopy or building a custom hood, AH Supply has what you need. Joe Bob sez, "Two thumbs up!" Humans have been using artificial lighting for a very long time. It is second nature for us to walk into a darkened room, feel for a light switch and light our way. Aquarists who have fish-only setups have been using lighted hoods for many years and don't spend much time struggling with the concept. Any bulb that fits in the hood and has a pleasing spectrum is suitable. Many of the aquarium specific bulbs are enhanced in the blue and red spectrum to bring out those colors in the fish. On the other hand, if you visit any of the Internet sites devoted to planted aquaria you will quickly realize that lighting is a very popular topic. You will also notice that the topic seems to be fraught with misinformation, myths, wives tales and amazing claims by lighting suppliers. So why is it that freshwater plant enthusiasts end up thinking that proper lighting is "a puzzle wrapped in an enigma"? One of the most common questions asked is "What's the best light for plants?" This question seems to get the most varied answers simply because "best" can be defined in so many ways. Are you trying to optimize intensity? Are you looking for the best spectrum for growth? Do you desire a natural appearance? Do you want to take prize-winning photos? Are energy costs critical? Is the initial expense a stumbling block? Do you have a closed hood or open top? How deep is your tank? If you don't know much about lighting terminology and technology, these can be difficult questions to answer. But, armed with a little knowledge, you can easily optimize your lighting setup to suit the needs of your tank inhabitants and your personal preferences. Lighting can seem complicated, especially when an expert starts spouting impressive sounding terms, but it is really very straightforward. The are many benefits associated with optimum lighting. If you are growing live plants, proper lighting is critical to good growth and plant health. If you are interested in photographing your aquariums, whether for contests or publication, good full spectrum lighting will make your job a lot easier. Finally, with the correct lighting, you will find that your aquarium, whether it's fish-only or fully planted, will be displayed at its best. Professionals in the "display" business, such as museums and art galleries, know that proper lighting is the number one way to showcase their collections. Our fish and plants deserve no less! Lighting Terminology Understanding the meaning of a few key terms is the first step in the search for success with lighting. Watts Bulbs come in various wattage ratings. This describes how much electrical power a bulb uses and does not describe how much light it generates. Different bulb technologies will produce differing amounts of light per watt. More technically, different types of bulbs are more efficient at converting electrical energy into light energy. For example, a typical fluorescent bulb is four times as bright as the same wattage incandescent bulb and a metal halide bulb is two times as bright as the same wattage fluorescent bulb. Even within a technology, light energy per watt will vary. All normal output 40-watt fluorescent bulbs draw 430 ma of current but vary greatly in how efficiently they convert the energy from the resulting internal arc into light. Unfortunately for the aquarist, wattage is the simplest and most common way to specify how much light is needed even though it is not an accurate measure. It is very common to see "use 2-3 watts per gallon of fluorescent light for plants". This is a very coarse rule because it doesn't take into account the efficiency of the bulbs, the type of reflector, the form factor of the tank or the type of plants being grown. But it is a good starting point because all bulbs are rated in watts. It's the least common denominator of light bulb specifications and it may be satisfactory for a lot of plant enthusiasts. Lumens Lumens are is the total amount of light that a bulb is capable of generating. This information should be readily available, either on the bulb package or from manufacturer's data sheets. It may take some digging to find it though. There are two values usually quoted for fluorescent bulbs: initial lumens and design lumens. Initial lumens describe how much light it produces when first turned on. Design lumens describe how much light it will produce for a much longer term. After an initial 20% drop in brightness, the light output will slowly decrease over the lifetime of the bulb. Lumens are somewhat misleading since they are geared towards what the human eye perceives. Human eye response is very sensitive to green light and less sensitive to the red and blue ends of the visible spectrum. Conversely, plants are more sensitive to red and blue light than green. A bulb heavily weighted to produce light in the green spectrum bands will be perceived as much brighter to the eye than bulbs that concentrate energy in other bands but plants will not be able to use much of the energy. A "Cool White" fluorescent bulb (designed to take advantage of this phenomenon) looks bright to us and has a high lumen rating but won't grow plants as well as other types of bulbs. The bottom line is that even if a bulb has a high lumen rating, it might not be suitable for aquarium lighting. The lumen rating is a better way to specify lighting than watts since it describes how much light is available. But it still falls short in that all the lumens might not reach the plants and it doesn't describe the energy bands that are generated. A bulb might have lots of lumens but much of the light might be lost because of a poor reflector design or the light might be in a part of the spectrum where plants have poor response. Lux Lux is a measure of the actual intensity of the light falling on a specified area and is a much better way to describe lighting requirements. Lux is defined as lumens per square meter. Unfortunately, since lux depends on the how the light gets from the bulb to the area, the manufacturer can't specify it - it has to be measured by the aquarist. Hobbyist luxmeters are available for under $150 and are invaluable for the serious light cognoscente. Also note that since lux are defined in terms of lumens, they also suffer from a bias towards human eye response. CRI This is the Color Rendering Index and describes how closely a light source renders colors compared to "standard" sunlight as observed by a "standard" human eye. A perfect source would score 100. Full spectrum bulbs rate in the 90s. CRI is usually specified for higher quality fluorescent bulbs but does not seem to be a valuable measure for bulbs used in planted tanks. Bulbs with a high CRI may not necessarily have the right spectrum for plants and may not be bright enough for good plant growth. Kelvin Temperature (K) or Color Temperature This describes the overall color of the light but not the spectral components. If a light source is stated as 5000K, it is the same color as a radiating black body (a physics term) heated to that temperature. Incandescent bulbs are around 2700K (reddish), "daylight" is roughly 5500K and higher color temperatures look more blue. In an aquarium setting, daylight or 5500K bulbs may look a little yellow while 6500K bulbs have a pleasing white light. Spectrum This describes the wavelengths of light that make up the light source. Visible light is a continuous band of colors ranging from violet to red (wavelengths of 380 nanometers to 700 nanometers). Sunlight and incandescent light are composed of all visible wavelengths. Fluorescent and metal halide bulbs emit only a few wavelengths ("spikes"), depending on the phosphors and rare earths used. Most fluorescent bulbs emit two strong spikes to generate a particular color temperature. A newer type of bulb called "tri-phosphor" adds a rare-earth phosphor to generate a wider spectrum of light - usually three spikes - and is strong in the green spectrum. Tri-phosphor bulbs are more expensive than other bulbs but generally give a pleasing appearance to the aquarium and are well suited for good plant growth. PAR Photosynthetic Active Radiation is the true measure of how plants respond to light. Just as lumens are keyed to human eye response, PAR is keyed to photosynthetic response. If bulbs were rated in PAR, it would be easy to select the best bulb for plant growth (but not necessarily for good appearance). Unfortunately, PAR meters are expensive and are not generally available to hobbyists and few if any bulb manufacturers supply PAR specifications. So, until someone sees the light, we are stuck with selecting the best bulb based on the other ratings. Lighting Technology Aquarists will typically use one of three types of lighting: incandescent, fluorescent or high intensity discharge. Sometimes combinations of lighting technology are used for special purposes. Also, some plant enthusiasts will augment artificial light with sunlight but, of course, sunlight is hard to control. Incandescent Incandescent lights were the original source of light for indoor aquariums. Although cheap and plentiful, they have serious drawbacks. First, they aren't very efficient - they generate a lot of heat for the lumens they produce. This fact alone makes them useful for only the smallest tanks. Secondly, although they are "full spectrum" in the sense that they generate all bands of visible light, their color temperature is only around 2700K. The result will be a reddish appearance and plants will have a sickly yellow color. "Halogen bulbs" are a newer form of incandescent lighting. These produce a whiter light than normal incandescent bulbs and can be obtained in small sizes for aquariums under 10 gallons. They still have the drawback of inefficiency and the light will still look a little yellow compared to better fluorescent lighting. One option is to use this type of lighting to highlight a specific plant or create a special effect. Amazon sword plants seem to do well when some incandescent light is available. Fluorescent Fluorescent is the most commonly used lighting for aquariums because of its efficiency, low cost and form factor (long and thin). There are many choices in fluorescent lights, which has led to a lot of confusion among aquarists. There are three categories of bulbs commonly in use today. The most familiar is the standard fluorescent bulb. These bulbs are nominally rated at 10 watts per foot - 48" 40-watt, 36" 30-watt, etc. They are often classified by their diameter in eighths of an inch. For example, a "T12" bulb is 1 1/2 inches across. Forty-watt bulbs usually come in T12 and sometimes T10 sizes but lower wattage bulbs can be anywhere from 1/2" in diameter on up. Standard bulbs can be further classified as normal output (NO), high output (HO) and very high output (VHO). NO bulbs are by far the most common and are used in most commercial aquarium hoods. The higher output bulbs draw more current and produce more light in the same space but you need special ballasts to drive them and you may need fans to cool them. One advantage of the standard NO bulbs are the wide variety available - almost any color temperature and spectrum can be obta! ined. Standard NO bulbs can be run with older-style "tar" ballasts (essentially special purpose transformers) or with more modern electronic ballasts. Higher output bulbs require specially designed electronic ballasts. An electronic ballast is preferred over a tar ballast because they are much more energy efficient (producing far less heat) and drive the bulb with a higher frequency signal (producing more lumens). You may find inexpensive shop lights for around $10 that claim "energy savings" and "electronic ballasts". You should avoid these - they save energy simply by supplying less power to the bulb and, as a consequence, the bulb will produce less lumens than it should. Also, they use a simple capacitor-inductor circuit instead of a ballast that can reduce the lifetime of your bulbs. A newer style of bulb is a true "energy saving" fluorescent bulb. It is commonly seen in a 48" long, 32-watt T8 bulb. Even though they have a lower wattage rating, they produce the same or more lumens than standard 40-watt bulbs. The bulbs themselves are more efficient and use electronic ballasts especially designed for them. This combination will lower your overall energy costs. Currently there are fewer choices available in T8 bulbs but that should change in the future - energy saving bulbs are mandated to replace standard bulbs because of their higher efficiency and manufacturers will be developing complete lines of these bulbs. The newest fluorescent bulb in the aquarium market is the "compact fluorescent" (CF) bulb. They are so named because the bulb is long and skinny and usually is folded in half. This allows you to have more light per inch - especially valuable for aquariums less than 48" long. CF bulbs are designed to use efficient electronic ballasts. Furthermore, because the tube is skinny, a very efficient reflector can be designed for them, increasing the amount of lux produced. There are fewer color choices available in CF bulbs but there is a large enough selection to satisfy the needs of most aquarists. A typical CF bulb is a 36-watt bulb that is only 17" long and 2" wide! One can easily fit four of these over a standard 75-gallon aquarium (48" long by 18" wide), giving you 2 watts per gallon. This may seem like the low end of the "2-3 watts per gallon" rule, but the CF bulbs produce more lumens per watt than standard fluorescent bulbs. Combined with an efficient reflector, this combination will produce enough light to grow even the most demanding plants. The photo shows four 55-watt CF bulbs (22" long) installed in a hood for a 100 gallon tank (60" x 18"). Note that there is still room for a small 13-watt red CF "night light" in the middle rear. These lights were obtained from a company that sells a full line of CF lights for aquarists, Aquarium Hobbyist Supply (http://www.ahsupply.com). High Intensity Discharge To get the maximum light in the least space, many aquarists turn to high intensity discharge (HID) technology. The systems used on aquariums are usually mercury vapor (MV) or metal halide (MH) lights. These lights are related to the orange sodium vapor lights seen in parking lots. All the systems use a small bulb containing a metal (sodium, mercury or halides) that is vaporized by an arc in the bulb. The vaporized metal then gives off the light we see. The small bulb is usually enclosed on a larger bulb that offers UV protection. These bulbs are very efficient and give off intense light - typical bulbs are rated at 175-watts and 250-watts. These bulbs also require special ballasts to drive them. They are very popular in reef setups and hydroponics culture. MV and MH lights are ideal for suspended hoods over large open-top aquariums. Typical applications will have two 175-watt bulbs over a 48" long tank or three 175-watt bulbs over 72" and 96" long tanks. Bulbs are available in color temperatures of 4300K and 5500K (suitable for planted tanks) and higher color temperatures more suited for reef tanks. One very nice visual side effect of this type of light is that it is close to a "point source" and will cast shadows in the tank just like real sunlight. Recommendations Without getting too involved with measurements and esoteric specifications, the old "2-3 watts per gallon" rule still holds fairly well for fluorescent bulbs and typical tank dimensions. The type of plants you grow and how densely the tank is planted will determine how efficient your light system needs to be. There are many directions you can take to improve your current lighting system. If you already have a good quality system, you might consider the age of the bulbs. Fluorescent and HID bulbs degrade with age and may lose up to 50% of their initial intensity after a year of operation. While the bulbs may have been bright enough when they were new, they may be sub-optimal now. MH bulbs will also see a spectrum shift with age, drifting toward a lower color temperature. If you have a multi-bulb set up you should change a single bulb periodically to avoid sudden changes in light intensity. If you aren't using tri-phosphor bulbs, you might consider investing in better quality bulbs as you change them. If your aquarium hood does not have a reflector, you can improve the amount of light reaching the water by either painting the inside white or lining it with silver Mylar film available at hydroponics stores. If you can fabricate a metal reflector in a W-shape or a parabolic shape, so much the better. But keep in mind that standard T12 fluorescent bulbs are fat and will block a lot of light being reflected ("restrike"). Thinner bulbs like T8 or CF permit a much better reflector. If you still have older tar ballasts, investing in electronic ballasts will improve the light output and reduce your electricity bills. If you are changing ballasts, you may want to consider the energy efficient T8 bulbs as well. If you are starting out with a commercial aquarium light hood, you may find that it is insufficient no matter how you upgrade the existing lights. A 55-gallon tank may come equipped with two 20-watt bulbs. There is no way you can enhance the output of 20-watt bulbs to provide even 2 watts per gallon! The best course of action is to consider retrofitting the hood with CF bulbs. With the proper CF retrofit kit, even a small 10-gallon aquarium can have enough light to grow the most light-loving plants. We hope that this article has made it easier for you to determine if your lighting is as good as it can be. Knowing the terminology and options available should allow you to intelligently sort through ads and data sheets to find the system components that are right for you. Next time you lift your hood and are blinded by the light, ask yourself what your plants may think. To you, the light is blinding; to the plants, light is life itself. Carefully inspect your bulbs, ballasts and reflectors to see if any changes are needed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45497	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Milwaukee Digital Light Meter with Submersible Probe, $65

customaquatic.com Digital Light Meter with Submersible Probe, Milwaukee SM700 Product #DI-MKSM700 Description: Digital light meter with submersible probe. Displays LUX or lumens with three different intensity ranges. Includes 9 volt battery. Brand: Milwaukee Shipment Dimensions: * Weight: 0.95 lb * Height: 8 in * Width: 6 in * Depth: 3 in Product # DI-MKSM700 List Price: $116.99 Our Price: $61.19 (save $55.8, 47%) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Big Al's online is offering a Milwaukee Instruments underwater LUX meter for > $98.99 plus shipping. That's not outrageous, though most would say it is not > inexpensive either. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45498	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/5/2010
Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future?

I had to go back and re-watch/listen and you're right, he does say "6,000 degrees Kelvin" (not Fahrenheit as I typed in error in my earlier reply) but then goes on to say that "the bulb's core temperature will reach... the same temperature as the surface of the sun", which is around 6,000 degrees Celsius so I'm not sure what to think now. Of course, using the below calculators, 6,000 degrees Celsius is equal to 6,273.15 degrees Kelvin so they are actually pretty close and since no one really knows the exact temperature of the surface of the sun, either answer could be completely accurate. Yes, 6,000K when used in one part of lighting terminology, refers to the Kelvin color spectrum but Kelvin is also a temperature scale, the same as Celsius and Fahrenheit, albeit, not used very often by the general public. http://www.lenntech.com/calculators/temperature/temperature.htm http://www.unit-conversion.info/temperature.html Enter 100 degrees Celsius and the calculator shows this is equal to 373.15 degrees Kelvin and/or 212 degrees Fahrenheit. Enter 6,000 degrees Celsius and you get 6,273.15 degrees Kelvin and 10,832 degrees Fahrenheit. I do believe the person in the video was talking about actual temperature, not the spectrum since he equated it to the temperature of the sun. Now, please do not confuse all of this to AlGore's recent SNAFU of the Earth's core being "several million degrees" and being the same as the Sun's temperature, since the Sun is NOT that hot and neither is the Earth, even after the so-called global warming... lol... http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/11/18/al-gore-earths-interio r-extremely-hot-several-million-degrees.... or that AlGore created the internet, since he didn't http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnFJ8cHAlco... but maybe, before he put it to the taxpayers and voters and got filthy rich off of all of us, he might have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express! http://www.usatoday.com/money/advertising/adtrack/2001-07-16-ad-track-holida y-inn-express.htm "It (the slogan) was even repeated by Al Gore in his campaign (though he apparently has never actually stayed at a Holiday Inn Express)." ;-) Sorry... I got on a Belushi-esque AlGore roll! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: notify@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notify@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron R. Martin, cmt Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:49 AM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Re: Light Bulb of the Future? 6,000 degree Kelvin, I believe is reference to Color Temperature as in Full Daylight, not actual heat temperature these seem like they would be a great replacement for Metal Halide/HQI bulbs --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > ...the video for this plasma bulb stated that the core of the plasma > bulb reached 6,000F... the same temperature as the surface of the > sun... so I'm wondering if this bulb might put out a lot of heat or > not? Or maybe it's just an atom sized speck that reaches 6,000F and > that heat never radiates out of the light bulb enclosure for it to be > a heat generating issue. > ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? > > I read that LEDs for traffic lights are having a problem. They don't > generate enough heat to keep ice melted off. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:37 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? > > > > > > That's one tiny 250W light bulb. > > I liked how they explained the "lumens per watt", with this new plasma > bulb giving out 140 lumens per watt, an LED gives out 70 lumens per > watt and a regular incandescent bulb only gives out 15 lumens per watt. > > I think LED's are going to be the light bulb of the present and near > future for most of us *normal* people, since the cost of LED's is so > cheap... but cities and big businesses will certainly benefit from > this newer technology to save on energy costs and be able to recoup > their investment at a faster rate. Several of the flashlights and > small work lights that I've gotten in the past year have multiple > LED's as their light source and the batteries last SO MUCH longer with them compared to an old fashioned flashlight bulb. > I imagine this new technology is going to come with a hefty price tag > until it becomes much more common. Look how long LED's have been around. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Steve Szabo > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Light Bulb of the Future? > > Video. > > http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13748_22-192842.html?tag=nl.e539 > > > http://tinyurl.com/8v2j8s > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45499	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Let There Be Light!

I saw the authors of this article, and could not help but wonder what happened to the Booths. Their writings appeared all over the place for a few years, then they seemingly vanished off the face of the earth. Does anyone who has been around for a while have any information? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron R. Martin, cmt Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 2:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Let There Be Light! http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/%20Planted%20Tank%20Inf o/ Let There Be Light! Copyright 2000 by George and Karla Booth Note: In case you get bored before you get to the end of this article, I would like to recommend Aquarium Hobbyist Supply as a most excellent source of compact fluorescent lighting kits and supplies. The owner, Kim, has gone out of his way to develop a superb series of lighting kits to suit any need. If you are retrofitting a standard canopy or building a custom hood, AH Supply has what you need. Joe Bob sez, "Two thumbs up!" Humans have been using artificial lighting for a very long time. It is second nature for us to walk into a darkened room, feel for a light switch and light our way. Aquarists who have fish-only setups have been using lighted hoods for many years and don't spend much time struggling with the concept. Any bulb that fits in the hood and has a pleasing spectrum is suitable. Many of the aquarium specific bulbs are enhanced in the blue and red spectrum to bring out those colors in the fish. On the other hand, if you visit any of the Internet sites devoted to planted aquaria you will quickly realize that lighting is a very popular topic. You will also notice that the topic seems to be fraught with misinformation, myths, wives tales and amazing claims by lighting suppliers. So why is it that freshwater plant enthusiasts end up thinking that proper lighting is "a puzzle wrapped in an enigma"? One of the most common questions asked is "What's the best light for plants?" This question seems to get the most varied answers simply because "best" can be defined in so many ways. Are you trying to optimize intensity? Are you looking for the best spectrum for growth? Do you desire a natural appearance? Do you want to take prize-winning photos? Are energy costs critical? Is the initial expense a stumbling block? Do you have a closed hood or open top? How deep is your tank? If you don't know much about lighting terminology and technology, these can be difficult questions to answer. But, armed with a little knowledge, you can easily optimize your lighting setup to suit the needs of your tank inhabitants and your personal preferences. Lighting can seem complicated, especially when an expert starts spouting impressive sounding terms, but it is really very straightforward. The are many benefits associated with optimum lighting. If you are growing live plants, proper lighting is critical to good growth and plant health. If you are interested in photographing your aquariums, whether for contests or publication, good full spectrum lighting will make your job a lot easier. Finally, with the correct lighting, you will find that your aquarium, whether it's fish-only or fully planted, will be displayed at its best. Professionals in the "display" business, such as museums and art galleries, know that proper lighting is the number one way to showcase their collections. Our fish and plants deserve no less! Lighting Terminology Understanding the meaning of a few key terms is the first step in the search for success with lighting. Watts Bulbs come in various wattage ratings. This describes how much electrical power a bulb uses and does not describe how much light it generates. Different bulb technologies will produce differing amounts of light per watt. More technically, different types of bulbs are more efficient at converting electrical energy into light energy. For example, a typical fluorescent bulb is four times as bright as the same wattage incandescent bulb and a metal halide bulb is two times as bright as the same wattage fluorescent bulb. Even within a technology, light energy per watt will vary. All normal output 40-watt fluorescent bulbs draw 430 ma of current but vary greatly in how efficiently they convert the energy from the resulting internal arc into light. Unfortunately for the aquarist, wattage is the simplest and most common way to specify how much light is needed even though it is not an accurate measure. It is very common to see "use 2-3 watts per gallon of fluorescent light for plants". This is a very coarse rule because it doesn't take into account the efficiency of the bulbs, the type of reflector, the form factor of the tank or the type of plants being grown. But it is a good starting point because all bulbs are rated in watts. It's the least common denominator of light bulb specifications and it may be satisfactory for a lot of plant enthusiasts. Lumens Lumens are is the total amount of light that a bulb is capable of generating. This information should be readily available, either on the bulb package or from manufacturer's data sheets. It may take some digging to find it though. There are two values usually quoted for fluorescent bulbs: initial lumens and design lumens. Initial lumens describe how much light it produces when first turned on. Design lumens describe how much light it will produce for a much longer term. After an initial 20% drop in brightness, the light output will slowly decrease over the lifetime of the bulb. Lumens are somewhat misleading since they are geared towards what the human eye perceives. Human eye response is very sensitive to green light and less sensitive to the red and blue ends of the visible spectrum. Conversely, plants are more sensitive to red and blue light than green. A bulb heavily weighted to produce light in the green spectrum bands will be perceived as much brighter to the eye than bulbs that concentrate energy in other bands but plants will not be able to use much of the energy. A "Cool White" fluorescent bulb (designed to take advantage of this phenomenon) looks bright to us and has a high lumen rating but won't grow plants as well as other types of bulbs. The bottom line is that even if a bulb has a high lumen rating, it might not be suitable for aquarium lighting. The lumen rating is a better way to specify lighting than watts since it describes how much light is available. But it still falls short in that all the lumens might not reach the plants and it doesn't describe the energy bands that are generated. A bulb might have lots of lumens but much of the light might be lost because of a poor reflector design or the light might be in a part of the spectrum where plants have poor response. Lux Lux is a measure of the actual intensity of the light falling on a specified area and is a much better way to describe lighting requirements. Lux is defined as lumens per square meter. Unfortunately, since lux depends on the how the light gets from the bulb to the area, the manufacturer can't specify it - it has to be measured by the aquarist. Hobbyist luxmeters are available for under $150 and are invaluable for the serious light cognoscente. Also note that since lux are defined in terms of lumens, they also suffer from a bias towards human eye response. CRI This is the Color Rendering Index and describes how closely a light source renders colors compared to "standard" sunlight as observed by a "standard" human eye. A perfect source would score 100. Full spectrum bulbs rate in the 90s. CRI is usually specified for higher quality fluorescent bulbs but does not seem to be a valuable measure for bulbs used in planted tanks. Bulbs with a high CRI may not necessarily have the right spectrum for plants and may not be bright enough for good plant growth. Kelvin Temperature (K) or Color Temperature This describes the overall color of the light but not the spectral components. If a light source is stated as 5000K, it is the same color as a radiating black body (a physics term) heated to that temperature. Incandescent bulbs are around 2700K (reddish), "daylight" is roughly 5500K and higher color temperatures look more blue. In an aquarium setting, daylight or 5500K bulbs may look a little yellow while 6500K bulbs have a pleasing white light. Spectrum This describes the wavelengths of light that make up the light source. Visible light is a continuous band of colors ranging from violet to red (wavelengths of 380 nanometers to 700 nanometers). Sunlight and incandescent light are composed of all visible wavelengths. Fluorescent and metal halide bulbs emit only a few wavelengths ("spikes"), depending on the phosphors and rare earths used. Most fluorescent bulbs emit two strong spikes to generate a particular color temperature. A newer type of bulb called "tri-phosphor" adds a rare-earth phosphor to generate a wider spectrum of light - usually three spikes - and is strong in the green spectrum. Tri-phosphor bulbs are more expensive than other bulbs but generally give a pleasing appearance to the aquarium and are well suited for good plant growth. PAR Photosynthetic Active Radiation is the true measure of how plants respond to light. Just as lumens are keyed to human eye response, PAR is keyed to photosynthetic response. If bulbs were rated in PAR, it would be easy to select the best bulb for plant growth (but not necessarily for good appearance). Unfortunately, PAR meters are expensive and are not generally available to hobbyists and few if any bulb manufacturers supply PAR specifications. So, until someone sees the light, we are stuck with selecting the best bulb based on the other ratings. Lighting Technology Aquarists will typically use one of three types of lighting: incandescent, fluorescent or high intensity discharge. Sometimes combinations of lighting technology are used for special purposes. Also, some plant enthusiasts will augment artificial light with sunlight but, of course, sunlight is hard to control. Incandescent Incandescent lights were the original source of light for indoor aquariums. Although cheap and plentiful, they have serious drawbacks. First, they aren't very efficient - they generate a lot of heat for the lumens they produce. This fact alone makes them useful for only the smallest tanks. Secondly, although they are "full spectrum" in the sense that they generate all bands of visible light, their color temperature is only around 2700K. The result will be a reddish appearance and plants will have a sickly yellow color. "Halogen bulbs" are a newer form of incandescent lighting. These produce a whiter light than normal incandescent bulbs and can be obtained in small sizes for aquariums under 10 gallons. They still have the drawback of inefficiency and the light will still look a little yellow compared to better fluorescent lighting. One option is to use this type of lighting to highlight a specific plant or create a special effect. Amazon sword plants seem to do well when some incandescent light is available. Fluorescent Fluorescent is the most commonly used lighting for aquariums because of its efficiency, low cost and form factor (long and thin). There are many choices in fluorescent lights, which has led to a lot of confusion among aquarists. There are three categories of bulbs commonly in use today. The most familiar is the standard fluorescent bulb. These bulbs are nominally rated at 10 watts per foot - 48" 40-watt, 36" 30-watt, etc. They are often classified by their diameter in eighths of an inch. For example, a "T12" bulb is 1 1/2 inches across. Forty-watt bulbs usually come in T12 and sometimes T10 sizes but lower wattage bulbs can be anywhere from 1/2" in diameter on up. Standard bulbs can be further classified as normal output (NO), high output (HO) and very high output (VHO). NO bulbs are by far the most common and are used in most commercial aquarium hoods. The higher output bulbs draw more current and produce more light in the same space but you need special ballasts to drive them and you may need fans to cool them. One advantage of the standard NO bulbs are the wide variety available - almost any color temperature and spectrum can be obta! ined. Standard NO bulbs can be run with older-style "tar" ballasts (essentially special purpose transformers) or with more modern electronic ballasts. Higher output bulbs require specially designed electronic ballasts. An electronic ballast is preferred over a tar ballast because they are much more energy efficient (producing far less heat) and drive the bulb with a higher frequency signal (producing more lumens). You may find inexpensive shop lights for around $10 that claim "energy savings" and "electronic ballasts". You should avoid these - they save energy simply by supplying less power to the bulb and, as a consequence, the bulb will produce less lumens than it should. Also, they use a simple capacitor-inductor circuit instead of a ballast that can reduce the lifetime of your bulbs. A newer style of bulb is a true "energy saving" fluorescent bulb. It is commonly seen in a 48" long, 32-watt T8 bulb. Even though they have a lower wattage rating, they produce the same or more lumens than standard 40-watt bulbs. The bulbs themselves are more efficient and use electronic ballasts especially designed for them. This combination will lower your overall energy costs. Currently there are fewer choices available in T8 bulbs but that should change in the future - energy saving bulbs are mandated to replace standard bulbs because of their higher efficiency and manufacturers will be developing complete lines of these bulbs. The newest fluorescent bulb in the aquarium market is the "compact fluorescent" (CF) bulb. They are so named because the bulb is long and skinny and usually is folded in half. This allows you to have more light per inch - especially valuable for aquariums less than 48" long. CF bulbs are designed to use efficient electronic ballasts. Furthermore, because the tube is skinny, a very efficient reflector can be designed for them, increasing the amount of lux produced. There are fewer color choices available in CF bulbs but there is a large enough selection to satisfy the needs of most aquarists. A typical CF bulb is a 36-watt bulb that is only 17" long and 2" wide! One can easily fit four of these over a standard 75-gallon aquarium (48" long by 18" wide), giving you 2 watts per gallon. This may seem like the low end of the "2-3 watts per gallon" rule, but the CF bulbs produce more lumens per watt than standard fluorescent bulbs. Combined with an efficient reflector, this combination will produce enough light to grow even the most demanding plants. The photo shows four 55-watt CF bulbs (22" long) installed in a hood for a 100 gallon tank (60" x 18"). Note that there is still room for a small 13-watt red CF "night light" in the middle rear. These lights were obtained from a company that sells a full line of CF lights for aquarists, Aquarium Hobbyist Supply (http://www.ahsupply.com). High Intensity Discharge To get the maximum light in the least space, many aquarists turn to high intensity discharge (HID) technology. The systems used on aquariums are usually mercury vapor (MV) or metal halide (MH) lights. These lights are related to the orange sodium vapor lights seen in parking lots. All the systems use a small bulb containing a metal (sodium, mercury or halides) that is vaporized by an arc in the bulb. The vaporized metal then gives off the light we see. The small bulb is usually enclosed on a larger bulb that offers UV protection. These bulbs are very efficient and give off intense light - typical bulbs are rated at 175-watts and 250-watts. These bulbs also require special ballasts to drive them. They are very popular in reef setups and hydroponics culture. MV and MH lights are ideal for suspended hoods over large open-top aquariums. Typical applications will have two 175-watt bulbs over a 48" long tank or three 175-watt bulbs over 72" and 96" long tanks. Bulbs are available in color temperatures of 4300K and 5500K (suitable for planted tanks) and higher color temperatures more suited for reef tanks. One very nice visual side effect of this type of light is that it is close to a "point source" and will cast shadows in the tank just like real sunlight. Recommendations Without getting too involved with measurements and esoteric specifications, the old "2-3 watts per gallon" rule still holds fairly well for fluorescent bulbs and typical tank dimensions. The type of plants you grow and how densely the tank is planted will determine how efficient your light system needs to be. There are many directions you can take to improve your current lighting system. If you already have a good quality system, you might consider the age of the bulbs. Fluorescent and HID bulbs degrade with age and may lose up to 50% of their initial intensity after a year of operation. While the bulbs may have been bright enough when they were new, they may be sub-optimal now. MH bulbs will also see a spectrum shift with age, drifting toward a lower color temperature. If you have a multi-bulb set up you should change a single bulb periodically to avoid sudden changes in light intensity. If you aren't using tri-phosphor bulbs, you might consider investing in better quality bulbs as you change them. If your aquarium hood does not have a reflector, you can improve the amount of light reaching the water by either painting the inside white or lining it with silver Mylar film available at hydroponics stores. If you can fabricate a metal reflector in a W-shape or a parabolic shape, so much the better. But keep in mind that standard T12 fluorescent bulbs are fat and will block a lot of light being reflected ("restrike"). Thinner bulbs like T8 or CF permit a much better reflector. If you still have older tar ballasts, investing in electronic ballasts will improve the light output and reduce your electricity bills. If you are changing ballasts, you may want to consider the energy efficient T8 bulbs as well. If you are starting out with a commercial aquarium light hood, you may find that it is insufficient no matter how you upgrade the existing lights. A 55-gallon tank may come equipped with two 20-watt bulbs. There is no way you can enhance the output of 20-watt bulbs to provide even 2 watts per gallon! The best course of action is to consider retrofitting the hood with CF bulbs. With the proper CF retrofit kit, even a small 10-gallon aquarium can have enough light to grow the most light-loving plants. We hope that this article has made it easier for you to determine if your lighting is as good as it can be. Knowing the terminology and options available should allow you to intelligently sort through ads and data sheets to find the system components that are right for you. Next time you lift your hood and are blinded by the light, ask yourself what your plants may think. To you, the light is blinding; to the plants, light is life itself. Carefully inspect your bulbs, ballasts and reflectors to see if any changes are needed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45500	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: A Tale of Two Flagella

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/a-tale-of-two-flagella/#more -35415 http://tinyurl.com/ybztncs [Site may require registration] January 5, 2010, 9:30 pm A Tale of Two Flagella By OLIVIA JUDSON Olivia Judson Olivia Judson on the influence of science and biology on modern life. Tags: They are the best of beings; they are the worst of beings. They are animals; they are plants. They are saviors; they are killers. They are predators; they are parasites. They are, in short, dinoflagellates - a large, diverse and eccentric group of (usually) single-celled organisms that are as celebrated as they are feared. And I hereby nominate them for Life-form of the Month: January. If you were to look at a dinoflagellate through a microscope, you might see anything from a small brown ball to an elaborate structure with whorls and spines - that depends on the species. All dinoflagellates live in water, most famously the ocean (though some live in freshwater), and many of them can swim: protruding from their outsides they have two whip-like structures known as flagella, one for moving and one for steering. (Flagella is plural: if they had only one, they'd have a flagellum.) Some dinoflagellates have eyes. Others give off light. Some, like plants, make energy from the sun; others, like animals, capture and eat their prey. Some do both. Funky. But even if you've never seen a dinoflagellate and wouldn't recognize one if it waved its flagella at you, you've probably come across them, for they impinge on our lives in two important ways, one good, one bad. Good: they make coral reefs possible. Most reef corals are associations between an animal (which makes the stony structures we think of as reef) and dinoflagellates from a lineage known as Symbiodinium. These are in the "plant" camp; they make energy from the sun. In return for shelter and some minerals, they provide their host with food: in some cases, dinoflagellates provide as much as 90 percent of the coral's nutrition. Dinoflagellates are not passed from parent to child like family diamonds; instead, baby corals get them from the water. Which coral gets what can be a flexible affair, with corals of the same species sometimes housing different dinoflagellates, and dinoflagellates of a given species being able to shack up with different corals. How corals and dinoflagellates "choose" each other is unclear, but the details of the association do matter: different dinoflagellates cause corals to grow at different speeds, and allow them to grow in water of different temperatures. In one experiment, for example, juvenile corals of the species Acropora tenuis grew twice as fast when they had dinoflagellates from a group known as Symbiodinium C1 than when they were lumbered with those from Symbiodinium D. However, corals that contain Symbiodinium D dinoflagellates are better able to cope with warmer waters. . . . ----------<continued at Link>---------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Let There Be Light!

They have a ton of stuff on TheKrib.com but I haven't seen anything recently. TheKrib.com has this page as a starting point, http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/People/Booth/ and also has a mirror of their original website http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/ which listed a link to them at http://www.frii.com/~booth/ but that page is down and *suggests* this email address mailto:booth@... I was intrigued so... a Google found this site, with the same "frii.com" and "gbooth" in the URL, http://users.frii.com/gbooth/Trains/index.htm and it's an active website about model trains and a line on the page says "Superintendent: George Booth Acquisition Supervisor: Karla Booth"... so maybe they've shifted their hobby to model trains??? Well, actually, they still seem to be involved with fish as their new home page, http://users.frii.com/gbooth/index.htm, shows the last update in Dec. 2009 and they still have a link to their Fish World page but it links back to their mirrored site on TheKrib.com mentioned above so maybe they aren't as involved in the *Fish World*. Here are their email addresses on their home page if you want to say hi... and they are still using *old school* ways of trying to avoid spam. I'm pretty sure most spam-bot, web-crawlers know how to decipher those types of stretched out email addresses and still pick them up as email addresses.. but I could be wrong. George and Karla Booth Email: gbooth at frii dot com Email: kbooth at frii dot com I just use Gmail... come and get me spam! GoldLenny@... LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Let There Be Light! I saw the authors of this article, and could not help but wonder what happened to the Booths. Their writings appeared all over the place for a few years, then they seemingly vanished off the face of the earth. Does anyone who has been around for a while have any information? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron R. Martin, cmt Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 2:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Let There Be Light! http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/%20Planted%20Tank%20Inf o/ Let There Be Light! Copyright 2000 by George and Karla Booth Note: In case you get bored before you get to the end of this article, I would like to recommend Aquarium Hobbyist Supply as a most excellent source of compact fluorescent lighting kits and supplies. The owner, Kim, has gone out of his way to develop a superb series of lighting kits to suit any need. If you are retrofitting a standard canopy or building a custom hood, AH Supply has what you need. Joe Bob sez, "Two thumbs up!" Humans have been using artificial lighting for a very long time. It is second nature for us to walk into a darkened room, feel for a light switch and light our way. Aquarists who have fish-only setups have been using lighted hoods for many years and don't spend much time struggling with the concept. Any bulb that fits in the hood and has a pleasing spectrum is suitable. Many of the aquarium specific bulbs are enhanced in the blue and red spectrum to bring out those colors in the fish. On the other hand, if you visit any of the Internet sites devoted to planted aquaria you will quickly realize that lighting is a very popular topic. You will also notice that the topic seems to be fraught with misinformation, myths, wives tales and amazing claims by lighting suppliers. So why is it that freshwater plant enthusiasts end up thinking that proper lighting is "a puzzle wrapped in an enigma"? One of the most common questions asked is "What's the best light for plants?" This question seems to get the most varied answers simply because "best" can be defined in so many ways. Are you trying to optimize intensity? Are you looking for the best spectrum for growth? Do you desire a natural appearance? Do you want to take prize-winning photos? Are energy costs critical? Is the initial expense a stumbling block? Do you have a closed hood or open top? How deep is your tank? If you don't know much about lighting terminology and technology, these can be difficult questions to answer. But, armed with a little knowledge, you can easily optimize your lighting setup to suit the needs of your tank inhabitants and your personal preferences. Lighting can seem complicated, especially when an expert starts spouting impressive sounding terms, but it is really very straightforward. The are many benefits associated with optimum lighting. If you are growing live plants, proper lighting is critical to good growth and plant health. If you are interested in photographing your aquariums, whether for contests or publication, good full spectrum lighting will make your job a lot easier. Finally, with the correct lighting, you will find that your aquarium, whether it's fish-only or fully planted, will be displayed at its best. Professionals in the "display" business, such as museums and art galleries, know that proper lighting is the number one way to showcase their collections. Our fish and plants deserve no less! Lighting Terminology Understanding the meaning of a few key terms is the first step in the search for success with lighting. Watts Bulbs come in various wattage ratings. This describes how much electrical power a bulb uses and does not describe how much light it generates. Different bulb technologies will produce differing amounts of light per watt. More technically, different types of bulbs are more efficient at converting electrical energy into light energy. For example, a typical fluorescent bulb is four times as bright as the same wattage incandescent bulb and a metal halide bulb is two times as bright as the same wattage fluorescent bulb. Even within a technology, light energy per watt will vary. All normal output 40-watt fluorescent bulbs draw 430 ma of current but vary greatly in how efficiently they convert the energy from the resulting internal arc into light. Unfortunately for the aquarist, wattage is the simplest and most common way to specify how much light is needed even though it is not an accurate measure. It is very common to see "use 2-3 watts per gallon of fluorescent light for plants". This is a very coarse rule because it doesn't take into account the efficiency of the bulbs, the type of reflector, the form factor of the tank or the type of plants being grown. But it is a good starting point because all bulbs are rated in watts. It's the least common denominator of light bulb specifications and it may be satisfactory for a lot of plant enthusiasts. Lumens Lumens are is the total amount of light that a bulb is capable of generating. This information should be readily available, either on the bulb package or from manufacturer's data sheets. It may take some digging to find it though. There are two values usually quoted for fluorescent bulbs: initial lumens and design lumens. Initial lumens describe how much light it produces when first turned on. Design lumens describe how much light it will produce for a much longer term. After an initial 20% drop in brightness, the light output will slowly decrease over the lifetime of the bulb. Lumens are somewhat misleading since they are geared towards what the human eye perceives. Human eye response is very sensitive to green light and less sensitive to the red and blue ends of the visible spectrum. Conversely, plants are more sensitive to red and blue light than green. A bulb heavily weighted to produce light in the green spectrum bands will be perceived as much brighter to the eye than bulbs that concentrate energy in other bands but plants will not be able to use much of the energy. A "Cool White" fluorescent bulb (designed to take advantage of this phenomenon) looks bright to us and has a high lumen rating but won't grow plants as well as other types of bulbs. The bottom line is that even if a bulb has a high lumen rating, it might not be suitable for aquarium lighting. The lumen rating is a better way to specify lighting than watts since it describes how much light is available. But it still falls short in that all the lumens might not reach the plants and it doesn't describe the energy bands that are generated. A bulb might have lots of lumens but much of the light might be lost because of a poor reflector design or the light might be in a part of the spectrum where plants have poor response. Lux Lux is a measure of the actual intensity of the light falling on a specified area and is a much better way to describe lighting requirements. Lux is defined as lumens per square meter. Unfortunately, since lux depends on the how the light gets from the bulb to the area, the manufacturer can't specify it - it has to be measured by the aquarist. Hobbyist luxmeters are available for under $150 and are invaluable for the serious light cognoscente. Also note that since lux are defined in terms of lumens, they also suffer from a bias towards human eye response. CRI This is the Color Rendering Index and describes how closely a light source renders colors compared to "standard" sunlight as observed by a "standard" human eye. A perfect source would score 100. Full spectrum bulbs rate in the 90s. CRI is usually specified for higher quality fluorescent bulbs but does not seem to be a valuable measure for bulbs used in planted tanks. Bulbs with a high CRI may not necessarily have the right spectrum for plants and may not be bright enough for good plant growth. Kelvin Temperature (K) or Color Temperature This describes the overall color of the light but not the spectral components. If a light source is stated as 5000K, it is the same color as a radiating black body (a physics term) heated to that temperature. Incandescent bulbs are around 2700K (reddish), "daylight" is roughly 5500K and higher color temperatures look more blue. In an aquarium setting, daylight or 5500K bulbs may look a little yellow while 6500K bulbs have a pleasing white light. Spectrum This describes the wavelengths of light that make up the light source. Visible light is a continuous band of colors ranging from violet to red (wavelengths of 380 nanometers to 700 nanometers). Sunlight and incandescent light are composed of all visible wavelengths. Fluorescent and metal halide bulbs emit only a few wavelengths ("spikes"), depending on the phosphors and rare earths used. Most fluorescent bulbs emit two strong spikes to generate a particular color temperature. A newer type of bulb called "tri-phosphor" adds a rare-earth phosphor to generate a wider spectrum of light - usually three spikes - and is strong in the green spectrum. Tri-phosphor bulbs are more expensive than other bulbs but generally give a pleasing appearance to the aquarium and are well suited for good plant growth. PAR Photosynthetic Active Radiation is the true measure of how plants respond to light. Just as lumens are keyed to human eye response, PAR is keyed to photosynthetic response. If bulbs were rated in PAR, it would be easy to select the best bulb for plant growth (but not necessarily for good appearance). Unfortunately, PAR meters are expensive and are not generally available to hobbyists and few if any bulb manufacturers supply PAR specifications. So, until someone sees the light, we are stuck with selecting the best bulb based on the other ratings. Lighting Technology Aquarists will typically use one of three types of lighting: incandescent, fluorescent or high intensity discharge. Sometimes combinations of lighting technology are used for special purposes. Also, some plant enthusiasts will augment artificial light with sunlight but, of course, sunlight is hard to control. Incandescent Incandescent lights were the original source of light for indoor aquariums. Although cheap and plentiful, they have serious drawbacks. First, they aren't very efficient - they generate a lot of heat for the lumens they produce. This fact alone makes them useful for only the smallest tanks. Secondly, although they are "full spectrum" in the sense that they generate all bands of visible light, their color temperature is only around 2700K. The result will be a reddish appearance and plants will have a sickly yellow color. "Halogen bulbs" are a newer form of incandescent lighting. These produce a whiter light than normal incandescent bulbs and can be obtained in small sizes for aquariums under 10 gallons. They still have the drawback of inefficiency and the light will still look a little yellow compared to better fluorescent lighting. One option is to use this type of lighting to highlight a specific plant or create a special effect. Amazon sword plants seem to do well when some incandescent light is available. Fluorescent Fluorescent is the most commonly used lighting for aquariums because of its efficiency, low cost and form factor (long and thin). There are many choices in fluorescent lights, which has led to a lot of confusion among aquarists. There are three categories of bulbs commonly in use today. The most familiar is the standard fluorescent bulb. These bulbs are nominally rated at 10 watts per foot - 48" 40-watt, 36" 30-watt, etc. They are often classified by their diameter in eighths of an inch. For example, a "T12" bulb is 1 1/2 inches across. Forty-watt bulbs usually come in T12 and sometimes T10 sizes but lower wattage bulbs can be anywhere from 1/2" in diameter on up. Standard bulbs can be further classified as normal output (NO), high output (HO) and very high output (VHO). NO bulbs are by far the most common and are used in most commercial aquarium hoods. The higher output bulbs draw more current and produce more light in the same space but you need special ballasts to drive them and you may need fans to cool them. One advantage of the standard NO bulbs are the wide variety available - almost any color temperature and spectrum can be obta! ined. Standard NO bulbs can be run with older-style "tar" ballasts (essentially special purpose transformers) or with more modern electronic ballasts. Higher output bulbs require specially designed electronic ballasts. An electronic ballast is preferred over a tar ballast because they are much more energy efficient (producing far less heat) and drive the bulb with a higher frequency signal (producing more lumens). You may find inexpensive shop lights for around $10 that claim "energy savings" and "electronic ballasts". You should avoid these - they save energy simply by supplying less power to the bulb and, as a consequence, the bulb will produce less lumens than it should. Also, they use a simple capacitor-inductor circuit instead of a ballast that can reduce the lifetime of your bulbs. A newer style of bulb is a true "energy saving" fluorescent bulb. It is commonly seen in a 48" long, 32-watt T8 bulb. Even though they have a lower wattage rating, they produce the same or more lumens than standard 40-watt bulbs. The bulbs themselves are more efficient and use electronic ballasts especially designed for them. This combination will lower your overall energy costs. Currently there are fewer choices available in T8 bulbs but that should change in the future - energy saving bulbs are mandated to replace standard bulbs because of their higher efficiency and manufacturers will be developing complete lines of these bulbs. The newest fluorescent bulb in the aquarium market is the "compact fluorescent" (CF) bulb. They are so named because the bulb is long and skinny and usually is folded in half. This allows you to have more light per inch - especially valuable for aquariums less than 48" long. CF bulbs are designed to use efficient electronic ballasts. Furthermore, because the tube is skinny, a very efficient reflector can be designed for them, increasing the amount of lux produced. There are fewer color choices available in CF bulbs but there is a large enough selection to satisfy the needs of most aquarists. A typical CF bulb is a 36-watt bulb that is only 17" long and 2" wide! One can easily fit four of these over a standard 75-gallon aquarium (48" long by 18" wide), giving you 2 watts per gallon. This may seem like the low end of the "2-3 watts per gallon" rule, but the CF bulbs produce more lumens per watt than standard fluorescent bulbs. Combined with an efficient reflector, this combination will produce enough light to grow even the most demanding plants. The photo shows four 55-watt CF bulbs (22" long) installed in a hood for a 100 gallon tank (60" x 18"). Note that there is still room for a small 13-watt red CF "night light" in the middle rear. These lights were obtained from a company that sells a full line of CF lights for aquarists, Aquarium Hobbyist Supply (http://www.ahsupply.com). High Intensity Discharge To get the maximum light in the least space, many aquarists turn to high intensity discharge (HID) technology. The systems used on aquariums are usually mercury vapor (MV) or metal halide (MH) lights. These lights are related to the orange sodium vapor lights seen in parking lots. All the systems use a small bulb containing a metal (sodium, mercury or halides) that is vaporized by an arc in the bulb. The vaporized metal then gives off the light we see. The small bulb is usually enclosed on a larger bulb that offers UV protection. These bulbs are very efficient and give off intense light - typical bulbs are rated at 175-watts and 250-watts. These bulbs also require special ballasts to drive them. They are very popular in reef setups and hydroponics culture. MV and MH lights are ideal for suspended hoods over large open-top aquariums. Typical applications will have two 175-watt bulbs over a 48" long tank or three 175-watt bulbs over 72" and 96" long tanks. Bulbs are available in color temperatures of 4300K and 5500K (suitable for planted tanks) and higher color temperatures more suited for reef tanks. One very nice visual side effect of this type of light is that it is close to a "point source" and will cast shadows in the tank just like real sunlight. Recommendations Without getting too involved with measurements and esoteric specifications, the old "2-3 watts per gallon" rule still holds fairly well for fluorescent bulbs and typical tank dimensions. The type of plants you grow and how densely the tank is planted will determine how efficient your light system needs to be. There are many directions you can take to improve your current lighting system. If you already have a good quality system, you might consider the age of the bulbs. Fluorescent and HID bulbs degrade with age and may lose up to 50% of their initial intensity after a year of operation. While the bulbs may have been bright enough when they were new, they may be sub-optimal now. MH bulbs will also see a spectrum shift with age, drifting toward a lower color temperature. If you have a multi-bulb set up you should change a single bulb periodically to avoid sudden changes in light intensity. If you aren't using tri-phosphor bulbs, you might consider investing in better quality bulbs as you change them. If your aquarium hood does not have a reflector, you can improve the amount of light reaching the water by either painting the inside white or lining it with silver Mylar film available at hydroponics stores. If you can fabricate a metal reflector in a W-shape or a parabolic shape, so much the better. But keep in mind that standard T12 fluorescent bulbs are fat and will block a lot of light being reflected ("restrike"). Thinner bulbs like T8 or CF permit a much better reflector. If you still have older tar ballasts, investing in electronic ballasts will improve the light output and reduce your electricity bills. If you are changing ballasts, you may want to consider the energy efficient T8 bulbs as well. If you are starting out with a commercial aquarium light hood, you may find that it is insufficient no matter how you upgrade the existing lights. A 55-gallon tank may come equipped with two 20-watt bulbs. There is no way you can enhance the output of 20-watt bulbs to provide even 2 watts per gallon! The best course of action is to consider retrofitting the hood with CF bulbs. With the proper CF retrofit kit, even a small 10-gallon aquarium can have enough light to grow the most light-loving plants. We hope that this article has made it easier for you to determine if your lighting is as good as it can be. Knowing the terminology and options available should allow you to intelligently sort through ads and data sheets to find the system components that are right for you. Next time you lift your hood and are blinded by the light, ask yourself what your plants may think. To you, the light is blinding; to the plants, light is life itself. Carefully inspect your bulbs, ballasts and reflectors to see if any changes are needed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45502	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Another Question About Brass Wire

Thanks tons, Ray and Lenny - I am so glad that I post here before I do anything major.....I figured brass would be okay since some of the airline fittings on the 40G I have are brass, but duh, they are not under water.....totally glad I asked! The filament suggestion is a great one - I am off the the hardware store yet again LOL My creative juices are really flowing with this hex tank since I have never had one so tall before and asking you guys before I make a critial mistake is way cool. You guys are brilliant! Thanks again! Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45503	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

Well, thankfully, parboiling my plastic plants did not make them melt into a nasty congealed mess - they look good as new so I guess I am safe. Though after reading Lenny's response, too, I guess a few of them would be okay - the tank I got the plants from was being torn down because of them, but now that I have read up on these MTS further last night, I realize it was because they got too much food. I think I can control this aspect better than the other tank's owner LOL so I will give them a try if they happen to show up. Since the substrate in this 100G is sand and the snails would take (away from me) the job of stirring it occasionally too so it would be like they are working for their room and board :-) On a more serious note, since I have no live plants in this tank, is the anerobic pocket issue really a concern, especially if I don't overpopulate and do my PWCs as reguarly as I now do? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

How deep were you planning on having the sand? The deeper the sand, the more likely for it to form anaerobic pockets. In non-planted tank, folks really do not need more than just enough substrate to cover the bottom glass. Anything more is just more substrate that can hold more/excess detritus. I would only keep about 1/2" to 1" in non-planted tanks and that is also what I have in my goldfish tank, where I have all the plants in clay pots. In a non-planted tank with a sand substrate, I would definitely NOT have more than 1" in the deeper sand areas and tapering down to 1/4" to 1/2" in the lower sand areas. This would make it a LOT easier to keep clean, with just a light passing over of the siphon hovering a little over the sand to suck up any surface detritus, but still give your MTS snails a little work to do to earn their room and board. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum Well, thankfully, parboiling my plastic plants did not make them melt into a nasty congealed mess - they look good as new so I guess I am safe. Though after reading Lenny's response, too, I guess a few of them would be okay - the tank I got the plants from was being torn down because of them, but now that I have read up on these MTS further last night, I realize it was because they got too much food. I think I can control this aspect better than the other tank's owner LOL so I will give them a try if they happen to show up. Since the substrate in this 100G is sand and the snails would take (away from me) the job of stirring it occasionally too so it would be like they are working for their room and board :-) On a more serious note, since I have no live plants in this tank, is the anerobic pocket issue really a concern, especially if I don't overpopulate and do my PWCs as reguarly as I now do? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45505	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

I prefer gravel to sand because it is easier to keep clean. Something to consider??? ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cobra427lady" <clare@...> wrote: > > Well, thankfully, parboiling my plastic plants did not make them melt into a nasty congealed mess - they look good as new so I guess I am safe. > Though after reading Lenny's response, too, I guess a few of them would be okay - the tank I got the plants from was being torn down because of them, but now that I have read up on these MTS further last night, I realize it was because they got too much food. I think I can control this aspect better than the other tank's owner LOL so I will give them a try if they happen to show up. > Since the substrate in this 100G is sand and the snails would take (away from me) the job of stirring it occasionally too so it would be like they are working for their room and board :-) > On a more serious note, since I have no live plants in this tank, is the anerobic pocket issue really a concern, especially if I don't overpopulate and do my PWCs as reguarly as I now do? > Thanks! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45506	From: amejia1976	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH

After following your advise Lenny I have been able to raise the pH in the 10g tank to 7.6 and reduce the Nitrate to 20ppm. This new parameters match the 75g which has been stable now for the last 32 days. I will wait another week to see how the 10g does. I also changed the filterin it; my gf kindly told me she had not changed it in well over 6 months. I just hope we can make up for our lack of experience soon. Thanks all for your help (Amber) I finally ordered the kh/gh test kits - they will be here this weekend along with a new pack of purigen (amazing) stuff) Thanks all for your help. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Even 10% PWC's might be too much right now... presuming the difference from > your tap water baseline (which is probably 7.6 pH) and your tank (which is > currently at 6.0 pH) is a 1.6 pH difference. Doing a 10% change would > immediately raise the pH by 0.16, which is too much for an immediate change. > Even a 5% change should change the pH by 0.08, which is right under the > threshold of 0.1 pH change at any specific time. > > Start with 5% daily for a week, then after a week, bump it up to 10% daily > and after another week, you should have the water pretty well > stabilized/equalized and nice and *fresh*. Test it to make sure and let us > know the numbers. > > For more info about Nitrates, you can read \\Steve's// long post about > Nitrates here... > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064 and while > \\Steve// starts off with, "There does seem to be a lot of unnecessary > concern of nitrate levels expressed by people on this list for relatively > low levels of nitrate.", your level of 160ppm is WAY above the levels which > we like to maintain, which is below 40ppm or even below 20ppm. This article > will explain that, while nitrates at your level will not kill most fish, it > is BAD for them in the long term and will shorten their lifespan. It would > be comparable to humans smoking cigarettes... so the fish are breathing > nitrates (instead of tar, nicotine, etc.) over a long period of time which > then cause many other health issues and a much shorter lifespan. > > Merry Christmas! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Raising pH > > Howdy all. > > Hope everyone is having an awesome Christmas. > > I have a 10g (US) tank with 2 emerald cory, 2 neon tetra, 2 zebra danio and > 1 chinese algea eater. > > 3 month ago I got a 70 g (US) tank. As some of you know I have had issues > with it, but it is getting better by the week. > > Now that I know that water testing and changing are IMPORTANT I have finally > started to act the fishkeeper part in my small tank. There is one issue with > it. The pH is @ 6.0, Ammonia and Nitrite are both @ 0 but my NITRATES are @ > 160. All the fish mentioned above been living in this tank for well over a > year without any obvious stress or deaths. > If I started doing 10-20% water changes per day will the Nitrate decrease > and the pH increase? I am looking to eventually move these fish to my larger > tank which is now maintaining a 7.6pH, Ammonia and Nitrite @ 0 and Nitrate @ > 10 and am pretty sure I need to get the 2 measurements closer to each other. > > Alex >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45507	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

It is about 1.5 inches deep all around - the live substrate I bought was in 20 pound bags and I put in 4 bags. I was going to scape it up higher in one area and thought my khuli loaches and peacock eel would help keep things stirred up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How deep were you planning on having the sand? The deeper the sand, the > more likely for it to form anaerobic pockets. In non-planted tank, folks > really do not need more than just enough substrate to cover the bottom > glass. Anything more is just more substrate that can hold more/excess > detritus. I would only keep about 1/2" to 1" in non-planted tanks and that > is also what I have in my goldfish tank, where I have all the plants in clay > pots. In a non-planted tank with a sand substrate, I would definitely NOT > have more than 1" in the deeper sand areas and tapering down to 1/4" to 1/2" > in the lower sand areas. This would make it a LOT easier to keep clean, > with just a light passing over of the siphon hovering a little over the sand > to suck up any surface detritus, but still give your MTS snails a little > work to do to earn their room and board. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cobra427lady > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets > Addendum > > Well, thankfully, parboiling my plastic plants did not make them melt into a > nasty congealed mess - they look good as new so I guess I am safe. > Though after reading Lenny's response, too, I guess a few of them would be > okay - the tank I got the plants from was being torn down because of them, > but now that I have read up on these MTS further last night, I realize it > was because they got too much food. I think I can control this aspect > better than the other tank's owner LOL so I will give them a try if they > happen to show up. > Since the substrate in this 100G is sand and the snails would take (away > from me) the job of stirring it occasionally too so it would be like they > are working for their room and board :-) On a more serious note, since I > have no live plants in this tank, is the anerobic pocket issue really a > concern, especially if I don't overpopulate and do my PWCs as reguarly as I > now do? > Thanks! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45508	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

Sand is already in there - plus I like the look of it. I am hoping the the khuli loaches and peackock eel destined fot he tank help me out :-) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I prefer gravel to sand because it is easier to keep clean. Something to consider??? > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cobra427lady" <clare@> wrote: > > > > Well, thankfully, parboiling my plastic plants did not make them melt into a nasty congealed mess - they look good as new so I guess I am safe. > > Though after reading Lenny's response, too, I guess a few of them would be okay - the tank I got the plants from was being torn down because of them, but now that I have read up on these MTS further last night, I realize it was because they got too much food. I think I can control this aspect better than the other tank's owner LOL so I will give them a try if they happen to show up. > > Since the substrate in this 100G is sand and the snails would take (away from me) the job of stirring it occasionally too so it would be like they are working for their room and board :-) > > On a more serious note, since I have no live plants in this tank, is the anerobic pocket issue really a concern, especially if I don't overpopulate and do my PWCs as reguarly as I now do? > > Thanks! > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45509	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

What kind of live substrate did you get? Normally that is for saltwater setups... Amber cobra427lady wrote: > > > It is about 1.5 inches deep all around - the live substrate I bought > was in 20 pound bags and I put in 4 bags. I was going to scape it up > higher in one area and thought my khuli loaches and peacock eel would > help keep things stirred up. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > How deep were you planning on having the sand? The deeper the sand, the > > more likely for it to form anaerobic pockets. In non-planted tank, folks > > really do not need more than just enough substrate to cover the bottom > > glass. Anything more is just more substrate that can hold more/excess > > detritus. I would only keep about 1/2" to 1" in non-planted tanks > and that > > is also what I have in my goldfish tank, where I have all the plants > in clay > > pots. In a non-planted tank with a sand substrate, I would > definitely NOT > > have more than 1" in the deeper sand areas and tapering down to 1/4" > to 1/2" > > in the lower sand areas. This would make it a LOT easier to keep clean, > > with just a light passing over of the siphon hovering a little over > the sand > > to suck up any surface detritus, but still give your MTS snails a little > > work to do to earn their room and board. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of cobra427lady > > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:49 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets > > Addendum > > > > Well, thankfully, parboiling my plastic plants did not make them > melt into a > > nasty congealed mess - they look good as new so I guess I am safe. > > Though after reading Lenny's response, too, I guess a few of them > would be > > okay - the tank I got the plants from was being torn down because of > them, > > but now that I have read up on these MTS further last night, I > realize it > > was because they got too much food. I think I can control this aspect > > better than the other tank's owner LOL so I will give them a try if they > > happen to show up. > > Since the substrate in this 100G is sand and the snails would take (away > > from me) the job of stirring it occasionally too so it would be like > they > > are working for their room and board :-) On a more serious note, since I > > have no live plants in this tank, is the anerobic pocket issue really a > > concern, especially if I don't overpopulate and do my PWCs as > reguarly as I > > now do? > > Thanks! > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH

Now you need test your ammonia and nitrites and monitor them over the next few days to a week and be prepared to do PWC's as needed. Even low levels of ammonia becomes toxic with higher pH levels so now that you have the tank back to normal, you have to be careful about ammonia issues. Also, add a pinch of salt per 10G which will protect against nitrite poisoning. It's not good to change out a filter cartridge since that is where the overwhelming majority of the good nitrifying bacteria live. If your 75G tank is healthy, you could rub the new filter cartridge on a dirty filter from that tank and transfer some of the good bacteria to filter for the 10G tank... or depending on what kind of filter you have on the 75G (if you have a canister filter), you could just squeeze some dirty *juice* from one of the pieces of filter media from the 75G into the reservoir of the 10G's filter. I'm not sure if I told you before, but go to my blog and go to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and take one or both of the free online fish keeping tutorials. Also read my article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you do not repeat these often made mistakes. Also look over all of the other info and links on that page. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Raising pH After following your advise Lenny I have been able to raise the pH in the 10g tank to 7.6 and reduce the Nitrate to 20ppm. This new parameters match the 75g which has been stable now for the last 32 days. I will wait another week to see how the 10g does. I also changed the filterin it; my gf kindly told me she had not changed it in well over 6 months. I just hope we can make up for our lack of experience soon. Thanks all for your help (Amber) I finally ordered the kh/gh test kits - they will be here this weekend along with a new pack of purigen (amazing) stuff) Thanks all for your help. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Even 10% PWC's might be too much right now... presuming the difference > from your tap water baseline (which is probably 7.6 pH) and your tank > (which is currently at 6.0 pH) is a 1.6 pH difference. Doing a 10% > change would immediately raise the pH by 0.16, which is too much for an immediate change. > Even a 5% change should change the pH by 0.08, which is right under > the threshold of 0.1 pH change at any specific time. > > Start with 5% daily for a week, then after a week, bump it up to 10% > daily and after another week, you should have the water pretty well > stabilized/equalized and nice and *fresh*. Test it to make sure and > let us know the numbers. > > For more info about Nitrates, you can read \\Steve's// long post about > Nitrates here... > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/13064 and while > \\Steve// starts off with, "There does seem to be a lot of unnecessary > concern of nitrate levels expressed by people on this list for > relatively low levels of nitrate.", your level of 160ppm is WAY above > the levels which we like to maintain, which is below 40ppm or even > below 20ppm. This article will explain that, while nitrates at your > level will not kill most fish, it is BAD for them in the long term and > will shorten their lifespan. It would be comparable to humans smoking > cigarettes... so the fish are breathing nitrates (instead of tar, > nicotine, etc.) over a long period of time which then cause many other health issues and a much shorter lifespan. > > Merry Christmas! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Raising pH > > Howdy all. > > Hope everyone is having an awesome Christmas. > > I have a 10g (US) tank with 2 emerald cory, 2 neon tetra, 2 zebra > danio and > 1 chinese algea eater. > > 3 month ago I got a 70 g (US) tank. As some of you know I have had > issues with it, but it is getting better by the week. > > Now that I know that water testing and changing are IMPORTANT I have > finally started to act the fishkeeper part in my small tank. There is > one issue with it. The pH is @ 6.0, Ammonia and Nitrite are both @ 0 > but my NITRATES are @ 160. All the fish mentioned above been living in > this tank for well over a year without any obvious stress or deaths. > If I started doing 10-20% water changes per day will the Nitrate > decrease and the pH increase? I am looking to eventually move these > fish to my larger tank which is now maintaining a 7.6pH, Ammonia and > Nitrite @ 0 and Nitrate @ 10 and am pretty sure I need to get the 2 measurements closer to each other. > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45511	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH

I have wondered about this: is most of the nitrifying bacteria in the filter, or the gravel? If I want to switch substrates but keep the same cycled filter, will this cause a major ammonia spike due to loss of nit bac, or will it be OK re ammonia because the filter is still there? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:23 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > It's not good to change out a filter cartridge since that is where the > overwhelming majority of the good nitrifying bacteria live. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH

In tanks with UGF filters (Under Gravel Filters), the majority is on the gravel since the water (and ammonia and nitrites) is flowing through the gravel (and any other filter media that might be in the UGF system)... but with all other filters, the nitrifying bacteria will be growing in the media of that filter system. There will be some other nitrifying bacteria living on ALL other surface areas of a tank that is exposed to the water column but since the filter system is where the majority of the water flows through on a constant basis and there is an overwhelming majority of surface area on all of the filter media, that's where they'll mostly live. If you keep your filter the same, then switching out the gravel is OK but should still be done in stages as there are lots of other life forms, both microscopic and visible, that make up the tank's ecology and you never want to disrupt it too much at any one time. When I've change gravel in the past... from pretty colored gravel to natural pea gravel, I bagged up the old gravel in sections of pantyhose and had them spread around the tank and would remove one bag a week over the course of 4-6 weeks to give the ecology a chance to grow properly in the new pea gravel. Whenever making any kind of major change to the ecology of a tank, one should test and monitor their nitrogen cycle and other water parameters... and watch the fish for signs of distress. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Raising pH I have wondered about this: is most of the nitrifying bacteria in the filter, or the gravel? If I want to switch substrates but keep the same cycled filter, will this cause a major ammonia spike due to loss of nit bac, or will it be OK re ammonia because the filter is still there? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:23 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > It's not good to change out a filter cartridge since that is where the > overwhelming majority of the good nitrifying bacteria live.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45513	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

I'm pretty sure you should not keep Kuhli Loaches and Peacock Eels in the same tanks. Kuhli's only grow to around 4" and Peacock Eels grow to around 12" to 16" and are carnivores. See the Mongabay profile here... http://fish.mongabay.com/mastacembelidae.htm scroll down to the Siamese spiny eel at the bottom which is another name for it. You will see it should only be kept with BIG fish. This profile goes into a little more detail... http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php The Kuhli's will burrow into the sand and help to keep it turned and aerated. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 7:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum Sand is already in there - plus I like the look of it. I am hoping the the khuli loaches and peackock eel destined fot he tank help me out :-) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I prefer gravel to sand because it is easier to keep clean. Something to consider??? > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cobra427lady" <clare@> wrote: > > > > Well, thankfully, parboiling my plastic plants did not make them melt into a nasty congealed mess - they look good as new so I guess I am safe. > > Though after reading Lenny's response, too, I guess a few of them would be okay - the tank I got the plants from was being torn down because of them, but now that I have read up on these MTS further last night, I realize it was because they got too much food. I think I can control this aspect better than the other tank's owner LOL so I will give them a try if they happen to show up. > > Since the substrate in this 100G is sand and the snails would take > > (away from me) the job of stirring it occasionally too so it would be like they are working for their room and board :-) On a more serious note, since I have no live plants in this tank, is the anerobic pocket issue really a concern, especially if I don't overpopulate and do my PWCs as reguarly as I now do? > > Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45514	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 1/6/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH

Actually Lenny the pH stabilized 3 days ago. Both my ammonia and nitrite have been at Oppm all along - I have tested everyday since I began doing the pwc's. I changed the filter more so bc of all the detritus buildup in it since the 10g was not being properly maintained. Started reading your blog - lots of info - Already read the faq at the krib - I feel like johnny5 needing more input... 75g so far so good. Alex Semper Fi Please forgive any spelling errors. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45515	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH

I just asked Dr. Tim this for another forum. Most is in the filter. But that does not mean there is not also a lot in the substrate and mean you don't have to worry about an ammonia spike. Most just means 51% and you might need that other 49%. That said, I have removed a filter and relied on the bacteria elsewhere in a tank to take care of ammonia. This usually happens on a hospital or quarantine tank, so low stocking. And I have a bunch of tanks, so I test daily when I do this and add bacteria from another tank at the first sign of ammonia or nitrite. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 11:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Raising pH I have wondered about this: is most of the nitrifying bacteria in the filter, or the gravel? If I want to switch substrates but keep the same cycled filter, will this cause a major ammonia spike due to loss of nit bac, or will it be OK re ammonia because the filter is still there? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:23 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > It's not good to change out a filter cartridge since that is where the > overwhelming majority of the good nitrifying bacteria live. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45516	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Raising pH

Hi Lainey,   The simple answer is both.  The bacteria live all over the tank BUT mostly in filters and where there is a lot of water movement.   I say "filters" because if you happen to be using an under gravel filter with a PF or HOB, you have a giant home for bacteria.  However, like any home it must be cleaned and properly maintained.  If care is taken care of, you will have a remarkably clear tank with some very happy inhabitants!   Under gravel filters are not filters per say.  They are really water movers.  If they are used as a "mechanical filter" you will have a very polluted tank in a very short time and most likely dead fish to boot.  This is why they are looked down upon by most people.   PWC's, filter maintenance, gravel vacuuming all are just as important using these filters as without them.  They do add great stability to a tank, especially larger ones in the 55 gallon and above range.  I had tanks up well over 10 years without problems or full tear-downs but a word of caution here, they can be abused and then you have a mess.  In answer to your question,if removing some slowly over a period of time no but if removed all at once yes. Any time you disturb a well-running and cycled tank you should have concern for "spikes" and other problems.  Changes occurring over time usually do not create a problem. After all, you wouldn't want someone coming into your home and rearranging all the furniture, would you? <g>   Bill --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Raising pH To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 11:31 PM I have wondered about this: is most of the nitrifying bacteria in the  filter, or the gravel? If I want to switch substrates but keep the same cycled filter, will  this cause a major ammonia spike due to loss of nit bac, or will it  be OK re ammonia because the filter is still there? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:23 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > It's not good to change out a filter cartridge since that is where the > overwhelming majority of the good nitrifying bacteria live. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45517	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Freshwater Live Substrate

Hi, Amber: Purchased it from CaribSea - they have live substrate sand and gravels for freshwater tanks as well as salt. It did a nice job of helping cycle out my tank - I think it was worth the little bit of extra cost involved to use it. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > What kind of live substrate did you get? Normally that is for saltwater > setups... > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45518	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

Duly noted concerns, Lenny - my fish appreciate it. I have done some research myself and spoken with the very reputable LFS. The mouth of the very docile peacock eel is extrremely narrow/small, meant for slurping up thinner bodied worms - not to say that he could not try to eat them or defend himself if annoyed once at his max size, but at 4.5" and growing very slowly I am sure I can manage him with the khulis for a while due to the size of the tank. Later on, if need be, I can certainly rehome him to the aforementioned LFS who's been around for eons & takes all kinds of large and unusual fish. Or I can move the khulis to my 40G. I now never choose a fish I cannot rehome or keep thru it's natural life once I know their individual requirements. Been there, done that, & learned the lesson with my common pleco and iridescent shark. Thanks for all your continuing great advice. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm pretty sure you should not keep Kuhli Loaches and Peacock Eels in the > same tanks. Kuhli's only grow to around 4" and Peacock Eels grow to around > 12" to 16" and are carnivores. > > See the Mongabay profile here... > http://fish.mongabay.com/mastacembelidae.htm scroll down to the Siamese > spiny eel at the bottom which is another name for it. You will see it > should only be kept with BIG fish. > > This profile goes into a little more detail... > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php > > The Kuhli's will burrow into the sand and help to keep it turned and > aerated. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cobra427lady > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 7:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets > Addendum > > > Sand is already in there - plus I like the look of it. I am hoping the the > khuli loaches and peackock eel destined fot he tank help me out :-) > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > I prefer gravel to sand because it is easier to keep clean. Something to > consider??? > > ~Kai > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate

CaribSea *live* substrate products came out quite a while back when a lot of the bottle bacteria products like Cycle, Stress-Zyme, etc., came out but all of these products (except BioSpira back then) have been proven to 1) not contain the correct bacteria and 2) not contain live bacteria, especially not live nitrifying bacteria since nitrifying bacteria NEED lots of oxygen and ammonia to live. CaribSea still has GOOD substrate products but I do not believe their *live* substrate products actually contain live nitrifying bacteria but it may contain other bacteria that live normally in our aquariums and which will eventually find their way into our aquariums without the need to add them from the start. I believe it was Ray or Harry, a while back, who wrote a nice reply, practically an article, explaining why these other so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products were actually bad to use when trying to "Cycle With Fish", since their bacteria actually added additional bioload activity to a new tank while not actually doing any of the nitrification process so they actually made things worse for the fish. Now, if using them during a "Fishless Cycle", they would probably not be as bad. Dr. Tim Hovanec, formerly the Chief Science Officer with Marineland and now owner of his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com, invented BioSpira AND holds the patent on this process, using genetic testing and replication to create the first real live nitrifying bacteria in a bottle product, while at Marineland. The product had to be kept refrigerated so it never did gain mass marketing appeal since most pet stores do not have refrigeration but it became an internet sensation, albeit with a high shipping cost since it had to be over-nighted and shipped in insulated shipping boxes. In the years following the invention of BioSpira, Dr. Tim and Marineland continued to work on an improved version that would not have to be refrigerated and finally succeeded with a product that has around a six month shelf life at room temperature AND holds patents on this product and process also. You can buy this from Dr. Tim's website above, called "The One And Only" and since Marineland was bought out by the same conglomerate that owns Tetra, Tetra also released a version of the product that they call SafeStart BUT I have seen many forum posts and surveys claiming that the Tetra product is not living up to it's advertising. Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group and while I haven't used his new product, I've seen forum posts of many others who have had good success and with the few that did not have good success, Dr. Tim immediately replace the product and the follow-up product worked as advertised since it came directly from Dr. Tim's company so it was assured that it was not exposed to temperature extremes. Usually, if the product was purchased from a retail outlet, they may have exposed the product to high heat or freezing temps which will adversely affect the live bacteria. For mail order shipments, freezing temps and high heat will also affect the product so you should still take precautions when buying and make sure the seller knows that the product has not been exposed to extreme temperatures and further, after adding the product to a new tank, dose the tank with some plain ammonia, up to 4-5ppm and then test the tank to make sure it is properly cycling the plain ammonia before adding fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater Live Substrate Hi, Amber: Purchased it from CaribSea - they have live substrate sand and gravels for freshwater tanks as well as salt. It did a nice job of helping cycle out my tank - I think it was worth the little bit of extra cost involved to use it. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > What kind of live substrate did you get? Normally that is for > saltwater setups... > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45520	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else is curious ;) http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45521	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

Good luck moving those Kuhli's later on ;) LOL. I've found that if I buy a fish that's hard to net/move later, the tank it goes into is it's final home ;) I cannot imagine trying to find one of those little guys in a tank if it really doesn't want to be found ;) I'd be pulling my hair out by the time I was done, with or without the fish in the net/bucket, LOL. Amber cobra427lady wrote: > > Duly noted concerns, Lenny - my fish appreciate it. > I have done some research myself and spoken with the very reputable > LFS. The mouth of the very docile peacock eel is extrremely > narrow/small, meant for slurping up thinner bodied worms - not to say > that he could not try to eat them or defend himself if annoyed once at > his max size, but at 4.5" and growing very slowly I am sure I can > manage him with the khulis for a while due to the size of the tank. > Later on, if need be, I can certainly rehome him to the aforementioned > LFS who's been around for eons & takes all kinds of large and unusual > fish. Or I can move the khulis to my 40G. > I now never choose a fish I cannot rehome or keep thru it's natural > life once I know their individual requirements. Been there, done that, > & learned the lesson with my common pleco and iridescent shark. > Thanks for all your continuing great advice. > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I'm pretty sure you should not keep Kuhli Loaches and Peacock Eels > in the > > same tanks. Kuhli's only grow to around 4" and Peacock Eels grow to > around > > 12" to 16" and are carnivores. > > > > See the Mongabay profile here... > > http://fish.mongabay.com/mastacembelidae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/mastacembelidae.htm> scroll down to the Siamese > > spiny eel at the bottom which is another name for it. You will see it > > should only be kept with BIG fish. > > > > This profile goes into a little more detail... > > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php > <http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php> > > > > The Kuhli's will burrow into the sand and help to keep it turned and > > aerated. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of cobra427lady > > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 7:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets > > Addendum > > > > > > Sand is already in there - plus I like the look of it. I am hoping > the the > > khuli loaches and peackock eel destined fot he tank help me out :-) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > I prefer gravel to sand because it is easier to keep clean. > Something to > > consider??? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45522	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate

Lenny - What do you know about Fritz Pet Turbo Start? This is one of the bacterial additives that needs to be refrigerated and people have told me it actually works to cycle a tank in a few days. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 7, 2010, at 2:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > CaribSea *live* substrate products came out quite a while back when > a lot of > the bottle bacteria products like Cycle, Stress-Zyme, etc., came > out but all > of these products (except BioSpira back then) have been proven to > 1) not > contain the correct bacteria and 2) not contain live bacteria, > especially > not live nitrifying bacteria since nitrifying bacteria NEED lots of > oxygen > and ammonia to live. > > CaribSea still has GOOD substrate products but I do not believe > their *live* > substrate products actually contain live nitrifying bacteria but it > may > contain other bacteria that live normally in our aquariums and > which will > eventually find their way into our aquariums without the need to > add them > from the start. I believe it was Ray or Harry, a while back, who > wrote a > nice reply, practically an article, explaining why these other so- > called > bacteria-in-a-bottle products were actually bad to use when trying > to "Cycle > With Fish", since their bacteria actually added additional bioload > activity > to a new tank while not actually doing any of the nitrification > process so > they actually made things worse for the fish. Now, if using them > during a > "Fishless Cycle", they would probably not be as bad. > > Dr. Tim Hovanec, formerly the Chief Science Officer with Marineland > and now > owner of his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com, invented > BioSpira > AND holds the patent on this process, using genetic testing and > replication > to create the first real live nitrifying bacteria in a bottle > product, while > at Marineland. The product had to be kept refrigerated so it never > did gain > mass marketing appeal since most pet stores do not have > refrigeration but it > became an internet sensation, albeit with a high shipping cost > since it had > to be over-nighted and shipped in insulated shipping boxes. > > In the years following the invention of BioSpira, Dr. Tim and > Marineland > continued to work on an improved version that would not have to be > refrigerated and finally succeeded with a product that has around a > six > month shelf life at room temperature AND holds patents on this > product and > process also. You can buy this from Dr. Tim's website above, called > "The > One And Only" and since Marineland was bought out by the same > conglomerate > that owns Tetra, Tetra also released a version of the product that > they call > SafeStart BUT I have seen many forum posts and surveys claiming > that the > Tetra product is not living up to it's advertising. Dr. Tim is > actually a > member of this group and while I haven't used his new product, I've > seen > forum posts of many others who have had good success and with the > few that > did not have good success, Dr. Tim immediately replace the product > and the > follow-up product worked as advertised since it came directly from > Dr. Tim's > company so it was assured that it was not exposed to temperature > extremes. > > Usually, if the product was purchased from a retail outlet, they > may have > exposed the product to high heat or freezing temps which will > adversely > affect the live bacteria. For mail order shipments, freezing temps > and high > heat will also affect the product so you should still take > precautions when > buying and make sure the seller knows that the product has not been > exposed > to extreme temperatures and further, after adding the product to a > new tank, > dose the tank with some plain ammonia, up to 4-5ppm and then test > the tank > to make sure it is properly cycling the plain ammonia before adding > fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cobra427lady > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater Live Substrate > > Hi, Amber: > Purchased it from CaribSea - they have live substrate sand and > gravels for > freshwater tanks as well as salt. > It did a nice job of helping cycle out my tank - I think it was > worth the > little bit of extra cost involved to use it. > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > > What kind of live substrate did you get? Normally that is for > > saltwater setups... > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45523	From: Nicole	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?

Are there any books or dvds that you really like about aquatic creatures? I'm working on a resource list. ---Nicole

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45524	From: Wendie	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

I've bought from him before and he makes nice items. I would go with #2 on the pleco caves. I've had them breed in the slate rect caves and the caves that he's made. When they want to breed, they'll do it just about anywhere. You do want to tilt the caves so the entrance is up just a tad to help keep the eggs in. The males are usually larger than the females and will allow them in and then block the entrance until the eggs are laid. I just had some breed two weeks ago but the sepra tetras got them before I realized the babies were coming out. I had noticed the female had eggs but then didn't pay attention. It would have been the 3rd or 4th generation. I've lost track as they do breed like rabbits when they start. My males spend all their time in these particular caves while my other plecos use the slate rect caves to reside in. There will always be one particular cave that the males fight over regardless of how many you have. I think there's currently 8 caves in my one tank and probaly 15 in another as the clown loaches took them over. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Pleco caves/cones/tubes Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else is curious ;) http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45525	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets Addendum

LOL ain't it the truth! Perhaps I will leave the peacock in the 40G til he's too big - at least the 40G is normal depth and smaller footprint - I can find him easier because he'll be bigger :-) Thanks for the chuckle! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Good luck moving those Kuhli's later on ;) LOL. I've found that if I buy > a fish that's hard to net/move later, the tank it goes into is it's > final home ;) I cannot imagine trying to find one of those little guys > in a tank if it really doesn't want to be found ;) I'd be pulling my > hair out by the time I was done, with or without the fish in the > net/bucket, LOL. > > Amber > > cobra427lady wrote: > > > > Duly noted concerns, Lenny - my fish appreciate it. > > I have done some research myself and spoken with the very reputable > > LFS. The mouth of the very docile peacock eel is extrremely > > narrow/small, meant for slurping up thinner bodied worms - not to say > > that he could not try to eat them or defend himself if annoyed once at > > his max size, but at 4.5" and growing very slowly I am sure I can > > manage him with the khulis for a while due to the size of the tank. > > Later on, if need be, I can certainly rehome him to the aforementioned > > LFS who's been around for eons & takes all kinds of large and unusual > > fish. Or I can move the khulis to my 40G. > > I now never choose a fish I cannot rehome or keep thru it's natural > > life once I know their individual requirements. Been there, done that, > > & learned the lesson with my common pleco and iridescent shark. > > Thanks for all your continuing great advice. > > Cheers, > > Clare > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm pretty sure you should not keep Kuhli Loaches and Peacock Eels > > in the > > > same tanks. Kuhli's only grow to around 4" and Peacock Eels grow to > > around > > > 12" to 16" and are carnivores. > > > > > > See the Mongabay profile here... > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/mastacembelidae.htm > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/mastacembelidae.htm> scroll down to the Siamese > > > spiny eel at the bottom which is another name for it. You will see it > > > should only be kept with BIG fish. > > > > > > This profile goes into a little more detail... > > > http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php > > <http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/Eels/PeacockEel.php> > > > > > > The Kuhli's will burrow into the sand and help to keep it turned and > > > aerated. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of cobra427lady > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 7:57 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Malaysian Trumpet Snails AND Anerobic Pockets > > > Addendum > > > > > > > > > Sand is already in there - plus I like the look of it. I am hoping > > the the > > > khuli loaches and peackock eel destined fot he tank help me out :-) > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I prefer gravel to sand because it is easier to keep clean. > > Something to > > > consider??? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45526	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate

Oh, well - nice report, Lenny - I must have gotten a good batch as I found it worked for me and the water tests I had done on my own and professionally, bore it out :-) Thanks for the continuing details. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > CaribSea *live* substrate products came out quite a while back when a lot of > the bottle bacteria products like Cycle, Stress-Zyme, etc., came out but all > of these products (except BioSpira back then) have been proven to 1) not > contain the correct bacteria and 2) not contain live bacteria, especially > not live nitrifying bacteria since nitrifying bacteria NEED lots of oxygen > and ammonia to live. > > CaribSea still has GOOD substrate products but I do not believe their *live* > substrate products actually contain live nitrifying bacteria but it may > contain other bacteria that live normally in our aquariums and which will > eventually find their way into our aquariums without the need to add them > from the start. I believe it was Ray or Harry, a while back, who wrote a > nice reply, practically an article, explaining why these other so-called > bacteria-in-a-bottle products were actually bad to use when trying to "Cycle > With Fish", since their bacteria actually added additional bioload activity > to a new tank while not actually doing any of the nitrification process so > they actually made things worse for the fish. Now, if using them during a > "Fishless Cycle", they would probably not be as bad. > > Dr. Tim Hovanec, formerly the Chief Science Officer with Marineland and now > owner of his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com, invented BioSpira > AND holds the patent on this process, using genetic testing and replication > to create the first real live nitrifying bacteria in a bottle product, while > at Marineland. The product had to be kept refrigerated so it never did gain > mass marketing appeal since most pet stores do not have refrigeration but it > became an internet sensation, albeit with a high shipping cost since it had > to be over-nighted and shipped in insulated shipping boxes. > > In the years following the invention of BioSpira, Dr. Tim and Marineland > continued to work on an improved version that would not have to be > refrigerated and finally succeeded with a product that has around a six > month shelf life at room temperature AND holds patents on this product and > process also. You can buy this from Dr. Tim's website above, called "The > One And Only" and since Marineland was bought out by the same conglomerate > that owns Tetra, Tetra also released a version of the product that they call > SafeStart BUT I have seen many forum posts and surveys claiming that the > Tetra product is not living up to it's advertising. Dr. Tim is actually a > member of this group and while I haven't used his new product, I've seen > forum posts of many others who have had good success and with the few that > did not have good success, Dr. Tim immediately replace the product and the > follow-up product worked as advertised since it came directly from Dr. Tim's > company so it was assured that it was not exposed to temperature extremes. > > Usually, if the product was purchased from a retail outlet, they may have > exposed the product to high heat or freezing temps which will adversely > affect the live bacteria. For mail order shipments, freezing temps and high > heat will also affect the product so you should still take precautions when > buying and make sure the seller knows that the product has not been exposed > to extreme temperatures and further, after adding the product to a new tank, > dose the tank with some plain ammonia, up to 4-5ppm and then test the tank > to make sure it is properly cycling the plain ammonia before adding fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cobra427lady > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater Live Substrate > > > Hi, Amber: > Purchased it from CaribSea - they have live substrate sand and gravels for > freshwater tanks as well as salt. > It did a nice job of helping cycle out my tank - I think it was worth the > little bit of extra cost involved to use it. > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > What kind of live substrate did you get? Normally that is for > > saltwater setups... > > > > Amber > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45527	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

The cones are for external laying of eggs on the outside of a cone. Most plecos breed in caves, with the door at substrate level. Look at the page of Cichlid Caves. I've seen where they love a 1/2 coconut shell with a cave door cut out for them. Price? Free for two of them if you buy fresh coconuts... or even free-erer if you have a nearby coconut tree up there on your island... oh wait.. they probably don't have coconut trees in Alaska. ;-) They added Java Moss to the top of this next one... looks like a Jim Croce Chia Pet now... or maybe a \\Steve// Chia Pet... when he was younger... if he only had time in a bottle. ;-) http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-decoration/87.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 4:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pleco caves/cones/tubes Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else is curious ;) http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45528	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?

Jewel of the Rift, National Geographic. You can probably watch it on You Tube. I liked it so much I bought a copy. But then I keep a lot of Cichlids. The movie does not use the names they should to describe fish and they tend to focus on the smallest fish in the lake and the biggest fish in the lake but they do show a fair spectrum of life considering the length of the movie. Oh, The "Emperor Cichlid" can be purchased as well as the shell dweller cichlid. My friend's shop happens to have both right now as well as some other shops in the country. -Mike ----Original Message----- From: Nicole <nikasmomma2001@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:09 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?   Are there any books or dvds that you really like about aquatic creatures? I'm working on a resource list. ---Nicole

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45529	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?

Nicole, Baensch "Aquarium Atlas," Vols. 1-5, but particularly Volume 1. The rest are for when you are decided you are going to have a long life in the hobby. "Fish and Invertebrate Culture, Water Management in Closed Systems," Second Edition by Stephen Spotte for those with some chemistry background (at least high school, and an interest in the nitrogen cycle and other water chemistry. Written toward the marine people, but much is applicable to FW as well. Only found used now. "Culturing Live Foods: A Step-By-Step Guide to Producing Food for Your Home Aquarium" by Michael R. Hellweg "Exotic and Tropical Fishes.19th Edition, Revised," William T. Innes. The last one that is really any good, though Innes really had nothing to do with this edition. Only found used, but fairly common. The basics are still the basics. Some fish names are out of date, but the etymology of the scientific names is given, so people can see they really mean something. Might not have any need for the section on aquarium cement (used prior to silicone and all glass tanks), but interesting historically. "Aquariology" edited by John B. Gratzek and others. There are a number of volumes covering specific topics, and a master volume containing the separate volumes. These were published in the early '90's by Tetra, and are a bit hard to find, but, back in the day, they were THE book or books to have. I believe that the separate volumes contained a bit more than their appearances in the master volume, so you might just want to pick each up as you find them. There are many others that are just as worthy to be included in anyone's library, but I'll give the others a chance to chip in also. For instance, there is a very good disease book written by veterinarians for veterinarians, but you need to have a very good science background to get through it, and, it is VERY hard to find now. I cannot lay my hands on it immediately, so I cannot give you the exact info on it. There are some very good books on various species and groups of fish as well, but not knowing exactly what you want, I stuck with fairly general books applicable to anyone with a tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicole Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)? Are there any books or dvds that you really like about aquatic creatures? I'm working on a resource list. ---Nicole

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45530	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate

Never heard of it. Are you in the USA or UK? I understand they do have another product in the UK and possibly in other countries that might not have been affected by Marineland's/Dr. Tim's patent on the process of packaging live nitrifying bacteria in the Bio-Spira product line back in the early 2000's. Well, I did a Google on the product name and I see it is a USA product and http://www.fritzpet.com/turbo-start-700/ shows that this is the same type of product as Hagen's Cycle and API's Stress-Zyme... in that it DOES NOT contain ALL of the correct nitrifying bacteria... BUT they do at least sell it as a refrigerated product with a short refrigerated shelf life. They sell a 1 oz. bottle for $9.99, which is supposedly good for 40G of water and 4 oz. for $19.99 for 150G of water. DrsFosterSmith.com is one place that sells Dr. Tim's One And Only, http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18986, for 2 oz. for $13.99 for 30G and 4 oz. for $28.49 for 60G of water. While the initial cost is a little more, this does not have to be shipped overnight or in a styrofoam cooler-type box with cold-packs, so the shipping will be MUCH LOWER so the overall price should be much lower. Of course, a local store or other websites may be less expensive than DrsFosterSmith.com... but read on since price isn't the only issue. Here's part of the product description for Turbo Start... "TURBO START #700 contains concentrated Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter nitrifying bacteria cultures...." The problem with this is that the correct nitrifying bacteria, as PROVEN in PEER REVIEWED scientific studies by Dr. Tim Hovanec, are nitrosomonas, nitrosospira and nitrospira... not the nitrobacter bacteria that was thought to be right and was used in so many of the other products that did not work as advertised. At least, with Fritz' product, they do say, "TURBO START remains viable for 3 months in a refrigerator... ...Freshwater systems started with 3 ppm ammonia can completely cycle in less than 5 days... Ammonia reduction will begin to be seen after the first 24 hours. Nitrite should be near zero within 5 days.". With Bio-Spira (and now with Dr. Tim's One And Only), you could add the product and add fish the next day and the tank would be fully cycled for a normal bioload. The reason the Fritz product wasn't fully cycling instantly is that it did not contain the proper nitrite eating bacteria so they had to rely on Mother Nature to provide them.. which will happen and does happen when "Fishless Cycling" using just plain ammonia from scratch. Apparently, they learned from Bio-Spira that by refrigerating the one correct live bacteria, that they did have, as soon as they were packaged, it would put them into a hibernative state so they would not die off immediately. This at least made the first part of the cycling process happen quickly but not the second phase. The other products like Hagen's Cycle and API's Stress-Zyme, were and still are kept on the store shelves for months and months and months and possibly years so there is NO WAY that those products had any kind of live bacteria in them... at least not live nitrifying bacteria since N-bacteria are aerobic bacteria and need plenty of oxygenated water to stay alive. All that might have been left in those bottles were anaerobic bacteria that were feeding off of the dead/decaying aerobic bacteria. All said, it doesn't appear to be as bad as the other on the shelf products that mislead so many newbies but it's not up to par with Dr. Tim's One And Only... especially if one can find Dr. Tim's products at their LFS so they would not even have the shipping charges. Dr. Tim's site has a store locator feature. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Freshwater Live Substrate Lenny - What do you know about Fritz Pet Turbo Start? This is one of the bacterial additives that needs to be refrigerated and people have told me it actually works to cycle a tank in a few days. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 7, 2010, at 2:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > CaribSea *live* substrate products came out quite a while back when a > lot of the bottle bacteria products like Cycle, Stress-Zyme, etc., > came out but all of these products (except BioSpira back then) have > been proven to > 1) not > contain the correct bacteria and 2) not contain live bacteria, > especially not live nitrifying bacteria since nitrifying bacteria NEED > lots of oxygen and ammonia to live. > > CaribSea still has GOOD substrate products but I do not believe their > *live* substrate products actually contain live nitrifying bacteria > but it may contain other bacteria that live normally in our aquariums > and which will eventually find their way into our aquariums without > the need to add them from the start. I believe it was Ray or Harry, a > while back, who wrote a nice reply, practically an article, explaining > why these other so- called bacteria-in-a-bottle products were actually > bad to use when trying to "Cycle With Fish", since their bacteria > actually added additional bioload activity to a new tank while not > actually doing any of the nitrification process so they actually made > things worse for the fish. Now, if using them during a "Fishless > Cycle", they would probably not be as bad. > > Dr. Tim Hovanec, formerly the Chief Science Officer with Marineland > and now owner of his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com, > invented BioSpira AND holds the patent on this process, using genetic > testing and replication to create the first real live nitrifying > bacteria in a bottle product, while at Marineland. The product had to > be kept refrigerated so it never did gain mass marketing appeal since > most pet stores do not have refrigeration but it became an internet > sensation, albeit with a high shipping cost since it had to be > over-nighted and shipped in insulated shipping boxes. > > In the years following the invention of BioSpira, Dr. Tim and > Marineland continued to work on an improved version that would not > have to be refrigerated and finally succeeded with a product that has > around a six month shelf life at room temperature AND holds patents on > this product and process also. You can buy this from Dr. Tim's website > above, called "The One And Only" and since Marineland was bought out > by the same conglomerate that owns Tetra, Tetra also released a > version of the product that they call SafeStart BUT I have seen many > forum posts and surveys claiming that the Tetra product is not living > up to it's advertising. Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group and > while I haven't used his new product, I've seen forum posts of many > others who have had good success and with the few that did not have > good success, Dr. Tim immediately replace the product and the > follow-up product worked as advertised since it came directly from Dr. > Tim's company so it was assured that it was not exposed to temperature > extremes. > > Usually, if the product was purchased from a retail outlet, they may > have exposed the product to high heat or freezing temps which will > adversely affect the live bacteria. For mail order shipments, freezing > temps and high heat will also affect the product so you should still > take precautions when buying and make sure the seller knows that the > product has not been exposed to extreme temperatures and further, > after adding the product to a new tank, dose the tank with some plain > ammonia, up to 4-5ppm and then test the tank to make sure it is > properly cycling the plain ammonia before adding fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater Live Substrate > > Hi, Amber: > Purchased it from CaribSea - they have live substrate sand and gravels > for freshwater tanks as well as salt. > It did a nice job of helping cycle out my tank - I think it was worth > the little bit of extra cost involved to use it. > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > > What kind of live substrate did you get? Normally that is for > > saltwater setups... > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45531	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

I actually have some caves from Rosenthal, very nice but there is a less expensive alternative. www.cichlidbreeding.com <http://www.cichlidbreeding.com/> has caves, cones and shells of about every description. Personally I’d just do a flower pot for BN, maybe cut it in half if you want to get fancy. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pleco caves/cones/tubes Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else is curious ;) http://www.rosentha <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> lpottery.com/ Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45532	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate

So, you added the CaribSea and added fish the same/next day and monitored your water and never had an ammonia or nitrite reading? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater Live Substrate Oh, well - nice report, Lenny - I must have gotten a good batch as I found it worked for me and the water tests I had done on my own and professionally, bore it out :-) Thanks for the continuing details. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > CaribSea *live* substrate products came out quite a while back when a > lot of the bottle bacteria products like Cycle, Stress-Zyme, etc., > came out but all of these products (except BioSpira back then) have > been proven to 1) not contain the correct bacteria and 2) not contain > live bacteria, especially not live nitrifying bacteria since > nitrifying bacteria NEED lots of oxygen and ammonia to live. > > CaribSea still has GOOD substrate products but I do not believe their > *live* substrate products actually contain live nitrifying bacteria > but it may contain other bacteria that live normally in our aquariums > and which will eventually find their way into our aquariums without > the need to add them from the start. I believe it was Ray or Harry, a > while back, who wrote a nice reply, practically an article, explaining > why these other so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products were actually > bad to use when trying to "Cycle With Fish", since their bacteria > actually added additional bioload activity to a new tank while not > actually doing any of the nitrification process so they actually made > things worse for the fish. Now, if using them during a "Fishless Cycle", they would probably not be as bad. > > Dr. Tim Hovanec, formerly the Chief Science Officer with Marineland > and now owner of his own company, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com, > invented BioSpira AND holds the patent on this process, using genetic > testing and replication to create the first real live nitrifying > bacteria in a bottle product, while at Marineland. The product had to > be kept refrigerated so it never did gain mass marketing appeal since > most pet stores do not have refrigeration but it became an internet > sensation, albeit with a high shipping cost since it had to be over-nighted and shipped in insulated shipping boxes. > > In the years following the invention of BioSpira, Dr. Tim and > Marineland continued to work on an improved version that would not > have to be refrigerated and finally succeeded with a product that has > around a six month shelf life at room temperature AND holds patents on > this product and process also. You can buy this from Dr. Tim's > website above, called "The One And Only" and since Marineland was > bought out by the same conglomerate that owns Tetra, Tetra also > released a version of the product that they call SafeStart BUT I have > seen many forum posts and surveys claiming that the Tetra product is > not living up to it's advertising. Dr. Tim is actually a member of > this group and while I haven't used his new product, I've seen forum > posts of many others who have had good success and with the few that > did not have good success, Dr. Tim immediately replace the product and > the follow-up product worked as advertised since it came directly from Dr. Tim's company so it was assured that it was not exposed to temperature extremes. > > Usually, if the product was purchased from a retail outlet, they may > have exposed the product to high heat or freezing temps which will > adversely affect the live bacteria. For mail order shipments, > freezing temps and high heat will also affect the product so you > should still take precautions when buying and make sure the seller > knows that the product has not been exposed to extreme temperatures > and further, after adding the product to a new tank, dose the tank > with some plain ammonia, up to 4-5ppm and then test the tank to make sure it is properly cycling the plain ammonia before adding fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cobra427lady > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Freshwater Live Substrate > > > Hi, Amber: > Purchased it from CaribSea - they have live substrate sand and gravels > for freshwater tanks as well as salt. > It did a nice job of helping cycle out my tank - I think it was worth > the little bit of extra cost involved to use it. > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > What kind of live substrate did you get? Normally that is for > > saltwater setups... > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45533	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?

Yep, it's on YouTube, Part 1 of 10 starts at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nrPdnzW6eo and they have an HQ version also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 6:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)? Jewel of the Rift, National Geographic. You can probably watch it on You Tube. I liked it so much I bought a copy. But then I keep a lot of Cichlids. The movie does not use the names they should to describe fish and they tend to focus on the smallest fish in the lake and the biggest fish in the lake but they do show a fair spectrum of life considering the length of the movie. Oh, The "Emperor Cichlid" can be purchased as well as the shell dweller cichlid. My friend's shop happens to have both right now as well as some other shops in the country. -Mike ----Original Message----- From: Nicole <nikasmomma2001@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:09 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?   Are there any books or dvds that you really like about aquatic creatures? I'm working on a resource list. ---Nicole

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45534	From: harry perry	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?

I watched it I thought it was very good and I don't have cichlids. Harry --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 9:48 PM   Yep, it's on YouTube, Part 1 of 10 starts at http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=9nrPdnzW6eo and they have an HQ version also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 6:12 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)? Jewel of the Rift, National Geographic. You can probably watch it on You Tube. I liked it so much I bought a copy. But then I keep a lot of Cichlids. The movie does not use the names they should to describe fish and they tend to focus on the smallest fish in the lake and the biggest fish in the lake but they do show a fair spectrum of life considering the length of the movie. Oh, The "Emperor Cichlid" can be purchased as well as the shell dweller cichlid. My friend's shop happens to have both right now as well as some other shops in the country. -Mike ----Original Message----- From: Nicole <nikasmomma2001@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:09 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?   Are there any books or dvds that you really like about aquatic creatures? I'm working on a resource list. ---Nicole [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45535	From: Lisa	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: NOT HAPPY!

Just having a grumble at the manufacturers who market the halogen light that I've been using for my tank. It was said to be one of the best on the market, so was quite pricey. But it's been above my tank for maybe 6 months, and it's already blown! I KNEW there were issues, when I tried to turn it on. It would always seem to take ages to actually turn on. See, what I do, is turn it off at the power point at night, then back on again in the morning. I also need to lift the light `case/fixture' that it's in, in order to take the cover glass off the tank so I can do my pwc, then rest it back on the edges of the tanks sides, while I do the actual pwc. Could it possibly be that the water might have splashed onto the casing? I don't know. But it's annoying. Should I bother getting a replacement if I'm getting a new tank that comes with the lot? Now my poor fish are in the dark for god knows how long, and so are my plants Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45536	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/7/2010
Subject: Re: NOT HAPPY!

If I recall correctly, you only have a 22G tank and are planning on a 30-35G upgrade. Neither of these sizes require advanced halogen lighting. Most halogen bulbs have a rather short life span... at least in my experience with halogen under kitchen cabinet lighting which are blowing constantly.. and then the bulbs ain't cheap to replace either. I finally found a source of bulbs on eBay where I can get them for about a dollar each (I was paying close to $5.00 each at Home Depot) when I order a dozen at a time. As soon as LED under cabinet lighting comes down a little more in price, I'll be switching over to an LED system. Also.. halogen bulbs get VERY HOT so you have to make sure that you do not touch the bulbs with your fingers (or use clean cloth gloves or a rag when putting in the bulb so you do not leave finger prints on the bulb as the oil from your finger will cause premature bulb failure... so water splashing on it will also cause this if the bulbs are exposed. They should have some kind of glass covering them but maybe not. As a suggestion, go to your local big box home improvement store or even a WalMart (I think y'all have them down under) and get an appropriate sized (maybe 2' or 3' long) fluorescent shop-light type fixture as a temporary replacement and you might just decide to make it permanent. In the USA, this type of fixture and bulbs would be less than $30.00 for a double-tube fixture. Better yet, if you plan on keeping both tanks next to each other, you could go with a 4' fixture which might even cost less than a 2' or 3' fixture. Your other option for temporary lighting is to go with a disposable stick-light, which are usually pretty cheap and you just throw away the entire fixture when the bulb burns out. These can also be used as under cabinet lighting, lighting under shelves, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] NOT HAPPY! Just having a grumble at the manufacturers who market the halogen light that I've been using for my tank. It was said to be one of the best on the market, so was quite pricey. But it's been above my tank for maybe 6 months, and it's already blown! I KNEW there were issues, when I tried to turn it on. It would always seem to take ages to actually turn on. See, what I do, is turn it off at the power point at night, then back on again in the morning. I also need to lift the light `case/fixture' that it's in, in order to take the cover glass off the tank so I can do my pwc, then rest it back on the edges of the tanks sides, while I do the actual pwc. Could it possibly be that the water might have splashed onto the casing? I don't know. But it's annoying. Should I bother getting a replacement if I'm getting a new tank that comes with the lot? Now my poor fish are in the dark for god knows how long, and so are my plants Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45537	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes and shapes for not a whole lot. I ordered a small one for my betta. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Pleco caves/cones/tubes Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else is curious ;) http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45538	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate

Sorry, Lenny, did not keep a scientific journal on the process; I found the product seemed to work as stated and I got a very much shortened cycle time before adding fish, especially due to the size of the tank. That's all I can tell you :-) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > So, you added the CaribSea and added fish the same/next day and monitored > your water and never had an ammonia or nitrite reading? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45539	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate

No problem. I wasn't looking for a scientific journal but the reason I'm asking is that you mentioned that it shortened the cycle time *before* adding fish and I want to be sure we're both on the same page. Without adding plain ammonia or fish (for their ammonia), you cannot even start the cycling process. Just adding a product (other than plain ammonia) to an empty tank WITHOUT adding fish or dosing daily with plain ammonia, having decaying detritus/food or other methods to simulate fish created ammonia, is not going to cycle a tank. You need the ammonia to start the nitrogen cycle (Ammonia>Nitrite>Nitrate...) The next thing, which seems to be a common misconception about the nitrogen cycle, is that the size of the tank doesn't make a difference. It should not take any longer to cycle a 1,000G tank as it does to cycle a 10G tank if the same methodology is being used. As I said earlier, CaribSea is still a good substrate and makes many types of unique substrates that can enhance a tank's look, BUT I do not believe that CaribSea and most of the other products mentioned earlier will do much towards creating the nitrogen cycle in an aquarium as I've read hundreds, if not thousands of forum threads about this topic and have used many of the products myself to see if they would work... but I'm open to the possibility that some of these products may have reformulated their product to take advantage of newer science, although most of the newer science is still protected by patents for several more years for the original Bio-Spira technology and probably even longer for any new Bio-Spira off-shoot technologies developed by Dr. Tim and/or Marineland/Tetra. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater Live Substrate Sorry, Lenny, did not keep a scientific journal on the process; I found the product seemed to work as stated and I got a very much shortened cycle time before adding fish, especially due to the size of the tank. That's all I can tell you :-) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > So, you added the CaribSea and added fish the same/next day and > monitored your water and never had an ammonia or nitrite reading? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45540	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Now I just need to find some coconuts ;) Very doubtful that I'm going to find a tree, perhaps one of the grocery stores has some, but I'd rather get one that's already had all the cocunut scraped from the inside (to save me all that work, LOL). Maybe the craft store will have some? I will have to go check. Thanks, I like the java moss covered ones better for some reason, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The cones are for external laying of eggs on the outside of a cone. Most > plecos breed in caves, with the door at substrate level. Look at the page > of Cichlid Caves. > > I've seen where they love a 1/2 coconut shell with a cave door cut out for > them. Price? Free for two of them if you buy fresh coconuts... or even > free-erer if you have a nearby coconut tree up there on your island... oh > wait.. they probably don't have coconut trees in Alaska. ;-) > > They added Java Moss to the top of this next one... looks like a Jim Croce > Chia Pet now... or maybe a \\Steve// Chia Pet... when he was younger... if > he only had time in a bottle. ;-) > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-decoration/87.asp > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-decoration/87.asp> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 4:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future > would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? > The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm not > worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one > later if > the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. > These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else > is curious ;) http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ > <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45541	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Come down to Mardi Gras next month. On Mardi Gras Day, Tuesday, February 16, 2010, the Krewe of Zulu http://www.kreweofzulu.com/ rolls first thing in the morning and one of their renowned throws are the infamous Zulu Coconut http://www.mardigrasdigest.com/html/zulu_coconuts.htm. Of course, it would probably be cheaper to buy one or two at your local grocery store and save the Zulu coconuts as the souvenirs/collector's items they are meant to be. I'm not sure if a crafts store will have coconut shells... not much use for them unless you guys have ig-luau's (he he.. get it... ig-luau's) up there and make DIY bikini tops out of coconut shells. ;-) There... I even got my Mardi Gras and come-visit-N'Awlins promotion in early this year! Now, if only my Saints can turn around their dismal end-of-season losing streak around and go all the way this year! GEAUX SAINTS!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 12:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pleco caves/cones/tubes Now I just need to find some coconuts ;) Very doubtful that I'm going to find a tree, perhaps one of the grocery stores has some, but I'd rather get one that's already had all the cocunut scraped from the inside (to save me all that work, LOL). Maybe the craft store will have some? I will have to go check. Thanks, I like the java moss covered ones better for some reason, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The cones are for external laying of eggs on the outside of a cone. > Most plecos breed in caves, with the door at substrate level. Look at > the page of Cichlid Caves. > > I've seen where they love a 1/2 coconut shell with a cave door cut out > for them. Price? Free for two of them if you buy fresh coconuts... or > even free-erer if you have a nearby coconut tree up there on your > island... oh wait.. they probably don't have coconut trees in Alaska. > ;-) > > They added Java Moss to the top of this next one... looks like a Jim > Croce Chia Pet now... or maybe a \\Steve// Chia Pet... when he was > younger... if he only had time in a bottle. ;-) > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-decoration/87.asp > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-decoration/87.asp> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 4:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that > someone makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in > the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? > The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm > not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new > one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. > These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone > else is curious ;) http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ > <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45542	From: pam andress	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Check out the pet stores that sell bird stuff. I have seen them for birds. Pam > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: arberglund@... > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:43:22 -0900 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > Now I just need to find some coconuts ;) Very doubtful that I'm going to > find a tree, perhaps one of the grocery stores has some, but I'd rather > get one that's already had all the cocunut scraped from the inside (to > save me all that work, LOL). Maybe the craft store will have some? I > will have to go check. > > Thanks, I like the java moss covered ones better for some reason, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > The cones are for external laying of eggs on the outside of a cone. Most > > plecos breed in caves, with the door at substrate level. Look at the page > > of Cichlid Caves. > > > > I've seen where they love a 1/2 coconut shell with a cave door cut out for > > them. Price? Free for two of them if you buy fresh coconuts... or even > > free-erer if you have a nearby coconut tree up there on your island... oh > > wait.. they probably don't have coconut trees in Alaska. ;-) > > > > They added Java Moss to the top of this next one... looks like a Jim Croce > > Chia Pet now... or maybe a \\Steve// Chia Pet... when he was younger... if > > he only had time in a bottle. ;-) > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-decoration/87.asp > > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-decoration/87.asp> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 4:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > > > Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone > > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future > > would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? > > The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm not > > worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one > > later if > > the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. > > These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else > > is curious ;) http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ > > <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> > > > > Amber > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45543	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/8/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate

You are pages ahead of me, Lenny - more so that I would ever possibly want to read :-) Thanks for being so thorough. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > No problem. I wasn't looking for a scientific journal but the reason I'm > asking is that you mentioned that it shortened the cycle time *before* > adding fish and I want to be sure we're both on the same page. > > Without adding plain ammonia or fish (for their ammonia), you cannot even > start the cycling process. Just adding a product (other than plain ammonia) > to an empty tank WITHOUT adding fish or dosing daily with plain ammonia, > having decaying detritus/food or other methods to simulate fish created > ammonia, is not going to cycle a tank. You need the ammonia to start the > nitrogen cycle (Ammonia>Nitrite>Nitrate...) > > The next thing, which seems to be a common misconception about the nitrogen > cycle, is that the size of the tank doesn't make a difference. It should > not take any longer to cycle a 1,000G tank as it does to cycle a 10G tank if > the same methodology is being used. > > As I said earlier, CaribSea is still a good substrate and makes many types > of unique substrates that can enhance a tank's look, BUT I do not believe > that CaribSea and most of the other products mentioned earlier will do much > towards creating the nitrogen cycle in an aquarium as I've read hundreds, if > not thousands of forum threads about this topic and have used many of the > products myself to see if they would work... but I'm open to the possibility > that some of these products may have reformulated their product to take > advantage of newer science, although most of the newer science is still > protected by patents for several more years for the original Bio-Spira > technology and probably even longer for any new Bio-Spira off-shoot > technologies developed by Dr. Tim and/or Marineland/Tetra. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cobra427lady > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater Live Substrate > > Sorry, Lenny, did not keep a scientific journal on the process; I found the > product seemed to work as stated and I got a very much shortened cycle time > before adding fish, especially due to the size of the tank. That's all I can > tell you :-) > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > So, you added the CaribSea and added fish the same/next day and > > monitored your water and never had an ammonia or nitrite reading? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45544	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. ~Kai > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes and shapes for not a whole lot. > > I ordered a small one for my betta. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > "Amber Berglund" wrote: > > Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? > The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm > not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else is curious ;) > http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45545	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Betta's are very curious by nature, they will inspect anything you put inside their tank (mine certainly does, LOL). He has his own canning jar for a cave and comes and goes out of it, he seems to prefer TINY caves that he can barely fit inside though, LOL. Weird little creature sometimes ;) He also has a bunch of guppy grass floating in his tank that he likes to rest on too. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > > Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP > > Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? > > I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would > be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." > > I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. > ~Kai > > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes > and shapes for not a whole lot. > > > > I ordered a small one for my betta. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > "Amber Berglund" wrote: > > > > Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that > someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's > in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer > cones for breeding? > > The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm > > not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new > one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. > These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone > else is curious ;) > > http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45546	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Freshwater Live Substrate

Clare, Lenny was trying to find out how you used your substrate, not just give advice, LOL. Did you add fish right after putting the caribsea gravel into the tank, or did you add ammonia right after, to start the cycle? If you just added gravel and water and are still waiting on fish the tank will NOT cycle at all, in fact anything living in there will quickly start to die off (bacteria will that is, without anything to feed off of). Amber cobra427lady wrote: > > You are pages ahead of me, Lenny - more so that I would ever possibly > want to read :-) Thanks for being so thorough. > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > No problem. I wasn't looking for a scientific journal but the reason I'm > > asking is that you mentioned that it shortened the cycle time *before* > > adding fish and I want to be sure we're both on the same page. > > > > Without adding plain ammonia or fish (for their ammonia), you cannot > even > > start the cycling process. Just adding a product (other than plain > ammonia) > > to an empty tank WITHOUT adding fish or dosing daily with plain ammonia, > > having decaying detritus/food or other methods to simulate fish created > > ammonia, is not going to cycle a tank. You need the ammonia to start the > > nitrogen cycle (Ammonia>Nitrite>Nitrate...) > > > > The next thing, which seems to be a common misconception about the > nitrogen > > cycle, is that the size of the tank doesn't make a difference. It should > > not take any longer to cycle a 1,000G tank as it does to cycle a 10G > tank if > > the same methodology is being used. > > > > As I said earlier, CaribSea is still a good substrate and makes many > types > > of unique substrates that can enhance a tank's look, BUT I do not > believe > > that CaribSea and most of the other products mentioned earlier will > do much > > towards creating the nitrogen cycle in an aquarium as I've read > hundreds, if > > not thousands of forum threads about this topic and have used many > of the > > products myself to see if they would work... but I'm open to the > possibility > > that some of these products may have reformulated their product to take > > advantage of newer science, although most of the newer science is still > > protected by patents for several more years for the original Bio-Spira > > technology and probably even longer for any new Bio-Spira off-shoot > > technologies developed by Dr. Tim and/or Marineland/Tetra. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of cobra427lady > > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Freshwater Live Substrate > > > > Sorry, Lenny, did not keep a scientific journal on the process; I > found the > > product seemed to work as stated and I got a very much shortened > cycle time > > before adding fish, especially due to the size of the tank. That's > all I can > > tell you :-) > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > So, you added the CaribSea and added fish the same/next day and > > > monitored your water and never had an ammonia or nitrite reading? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45547	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Well, the one I took back to Petsmart and exchanged for a more sociable betta certainly did. He went in side his castle, and hid there, all of the time. I seldom saw him, unless I lifted up the castle. The castle was for Nathaniel the Fish. Nathaniel was named for my three times great grandfather, an Irish subconstable who was very into his family's aristocratic pretensions. Nathaniel never went in the castle; it was for decoration. The cave arrived, but it's just a little too small and too light a shade of grey for Ebenezer's critter keeper. He's a pale orange-pink fish, and looks good against the cream and light blue castle and green silk plants. The new fish doesn't hide; he's always swimming around and comes immediately to get food. I picked him because he boldly looked right at me in his little betta jar, and he had built a big bubble nest. I got the cichlid stone from Drs Foster and Smith for under $10 including shipping. They come in a variety of sizes and shapes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:18 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. ~Kai > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes and > shapes for not a whole lot. > > I ordered a small one for my betta. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > "Amber Berglund" wrote: > > Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone > > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future > would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? > The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm > not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one > later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. These are > the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else is > curious ;) > http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ > > Amber > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45548	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Ha! I would never have guessed! My guys play a little hide and seek in their plants but I would never have thought to offer them a cave or castle to hide *IN.* Chow Mein is pretty aloof and only interacts a little (surprisingly non-aggressive for a crowntail) but Sweet and Sour (veiltail) is always in my face. They're right here on my computer desk and S&S always wants to see what I'm up to whenever I move around. Mom's Kala (also a crowntail) is very active. He interacts with his snail and watches every move Mom makes. ~Kai [And Amber wrote about her Bettas in caves as well.] --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Well, the one I took back to Petsmart and exchanged for a more sociable > betta certainly did. He went in side his castle, and hid there, all of the > time. I seldom saw him, unless I lifted up the castle. > > The castle was for Nathaniel the Fish. Nathaniel was named for my three > times great grandfather, an Irish subconstable who was very into his > family's aristocratic pretensions. Nathaniel never went in the castle; it > was for decoration. > > The cave arrived, but it's just a little too small and too light a shade of > grey for Ebenezer's critter keeper. He's a pale orange-pink fish, and looks > good against the cream and light blue castle and green silk plants. The > new fish doesn't hide; he's always swimming around and comes immediately to > get food. I picked him because he boldly looked right at me in his little > betta jar, and he had built a big bubble nest. > > I got the cichlid stone from Drs Foster and Smith for under $10 including > shipping. They come in a variety of sizes and shapes. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:18 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > > > Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP > > Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? > > I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would be a > plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." > > I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. > ~Kai > > > > > > "Dora Smith" wrote: > > > > I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes and > > shapes for not a whole lot. > > > > I ordered a small one for my betta. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > "Amber Berglund" wrote: > > > > Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that someone > > > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's in the future > > would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer cones for breeding? > > The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm > > not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new one > > later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. These are > > the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone else is > > curious ;) > > http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ > > > > Amber > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45549	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

He wasn't inspecting it; he was living in it, and rarely came out. He barely fit in it. I'd pick it up to make sure he was there, and there he'd be, all curled up, and very cross. I never heard of such a thing. At least you know he liked to breathe his water! What is guppy grass? The web can't seem to agree. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > Betta's are very curious by nature, they will inspect anything you put > inside their tank (mine certainly does, LOL). He has his own canning jar > for a cave and comes and goes out of it, he seems to prefer TINY caves > that he can barely fit inside though, LOL. Weird little creature > sometimes ;) He also has a bunch of guppy grass floating in his tank > that he likes to rest on too. > > Amber > > kuradi8 wrote: >> >> >> Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP >> >> Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? >> >> I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would >> be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." >> >> I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. >> ~Kai >> >> > "Dora Smith" wrote: >> > >> > I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes >> and shapes for not a whole lot. >> > >> > I ordered a small one for my betta. >> > >> > Yours, >> > Dora Smith >> > Austin, TX >> > tiggernut24@... >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> > "Amber Berglund" wrote: >> > >> > Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that >> someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's >> in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer >> cones for breeding? >> > The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm >> > not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new >> one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. >> These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone >> else is curious ;) >> > http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> >> > >> > Amber >> > >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45550	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Either http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_asearch.php or http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/ would give the info. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=174 In this case, PlantGeek had it. Not sure why APC didn't have a profile since it's a fairly common plant. That's why I still recommend PlantGeek.net along with APC searches, since PG has a larger database of plant profiles but APC is usually a better profile, when they have a profile. If you searched Google and used quotes, "guppy grass", the same PlantGeek profile was the 2nd hit on my returns. The hit above it was a forum thread on AquariaCentral with someone asking if guppy grass and java moss were the same thing and he was straightened out that they were not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 5:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes He wasn't inspecting it; he was living in it, and rarely came out. He barely fit in it. I'd pick it up to make sure he was there, and there he'd be, all curled up, and very cross. I never heard of such a thing. At least you know he liked to breathe his water! What is guppy grass? The web can't seem to agree. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > Betta's are very curious by nature, they will inspect anything you put > inside their tank (mine certainly does, LOL). He has his own canning jar > for a cave and comes and goes out of it, he seems to prefer TINY caves > that he can barely fit inside though, LOL. Weird little creature > sometimes ;) He also has a bunch of guppy grass floating in his tank > that he likes to rest on too. > > Amber > > kuradi8 wrote: >> >> >> Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP >> >> Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? >> >> I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would >> be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." >> >> I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. >> ~Kai >> >> > "Dora Smith" wrote: >> > >> > I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes >> and shapes for not a whole lot. >> > >> > I ordered a small one for my betta. >> > >> > Yours, >> > Dora Smith >> > Austin, TX >> > tiggernut24@... >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> > "Amber Berglund" wrote: >> > >> > Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that >> someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's >> in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer >> cones for breeding? >> > The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm >> > not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new >> one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. >> These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone >> else is curious ;) >> > http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> >> > >> > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45551	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

I think it's also called Naga Grass. My betta likes to shove his little body into a hollow ship I have in his tank, the hole in the side is about as wide as he is, LOL. So I think it's normal for at least some of them to like hiding in dark places. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > He wasn't inspecting it; he was living in it, and rarely came out. He > barely fit in it. I'd pick it up to make sure he was there, and there he'd > be, all curled up, and very cross. I never heard of such a thing. At > least you know he liked to breathe his water! > > What is guppy grass? The web can't seem to agree. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:52 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > > >> Betta's are very curious by nature, they will inspect anything you put >> inside their tank (mine certainly does, LOL). He has his own canning jar >> for a cave and comes and goes out of it, he seems to prefer TINY caves >> that he can barely fit inside though, LOL. Weird little creature >> sometimes ;) He also has a bunch of guppy grass floating in his tank >> that he likes to rest on too. >> >> Amber >> >> kuradi8 wrote: >> >>> Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP >>> >>> Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? >>> >>> I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would >>> be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." >>> >>> I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. >>> ~Kai >>> >>> >>>> "Dora Smith" wrote: >>>> >>>> I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes >>>> >>> and shapes for not a whole lot. >>> >>>> I ordered a small one for my betta. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Dora Smith >>>> Austin, TX >>>> tiggernut24@... >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> "Amber Berglund" wrote: >>>> >>>> Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that >>>> >>> someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's >>> in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer >>> cones for breeding? >>> >>>> The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm >>>> not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new >>>> >>> one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. >>> These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone >>> else is curious ;) >>> >>>> http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> >>> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45552	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/9/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

The "Najas" part of one of the *common* names sometimes used for this species is actually the Genus from the scientific name Najas guadalupensis, with the more common name Guppy Grass. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=174 My Betta use to like hanging out in his cave sometimes too... when he wasn't using a broad leafed plant as a hammock or generally swimming around the 10G tank. The bigger than tank, the more decorations/plants one can have but in a 1G bowl or smaller, it's probably best to just have a few stalks of Anacharis or some other fast growing, easy-to-grow plant, either in the middle or on one side, to give more water volume and swimming space. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes I think it's also called Naga Grass. My betta likes to shove his little body into a hollow ship I have in his tank, the hole in the side is about as wide as he is, LOL. So I think it's normal for at least some of them to like hiding in dark places. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > He wasn't inspecting it; he was living in it, and rarely came out. He > barely fit in it. I'd pick it up to make sure he was there, and there he'd > be, all curled up, and very cross. I never heard of such a thing. At > least you know he liked to breathe his water! > > What is guppy grass? The web can't seem to agree. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:52 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > > >> Betta's are very curious by nature, they will inspect anything you >> put inside their tank (mine certainly does, LOL). He has his own >> canning jar for a cave and comes and goes out of it, he seems to >> prefer TINY caves that he can barely fit inside though, LOL. Weird >> little creature sometimes ;) He also has a bunch of guppy grass >> floating in his tank that he likes to rest on too. >> >> Amber >> >> kuradi8 wrote: >> >>> Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP >>> >>> Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? >>> >>> I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta >>> would be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." >>> >>> I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. >>> ~Kai >>> >>> >>>> "Dora Smith" wrote: >>>> >>>> I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes >>>> >>> and shapes for not a whole lot. >>> >>>> I ordered a small one for my betta. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Dora Smith >>>> Austin, TX >>>> tiggernut24@... >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> "Amber Berglund" wrote: >>>> >>>> Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that >>>> >>> someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's >>> in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer >>> cones for breeding? >>> >>>> The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so >>>> I'm not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a >>>> new >>>> >>> one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. >>> These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case >>> anyone else is curious ;) >>> >>>> http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> >>>> >>>> Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45553	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

What's the best way to get some? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes >I think it's also called Naga Grass. > My betta likes to shove his little body into a hollow ship I have in his > tank, the hole in the side is about as wide as he is, LOL. So I think > it's normal for at least some of them to like hiding in dark places. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> He wasn't inspecting it; he was living in it, and rarely came out. He >> barely fit in it. I'd pick it up to make sure he was there, and there >> he'd >> be, all curled up, and very cross. I never heard of such a thing. At >> least you know he liked to breathe his water! >> >> What is guppy grass? The web can't seem to agree. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes >> >> >> >>> Betta's are very curious by nature, they will inspect anything you put >>> inside their tank (mine certainly does, LOL). He has his own canning jar >>> for a cave and comes and goes out of it, he seems to prefer TINY caves >>> that he can barely fit inside though, LOL. Weird little creature >>> sometimes ;) He also has a bunch of guppy grass floating in his tank >>> that he likes to rest on too. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> kuradi8 wrote: >>> >>>> Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP >>>> >>>> Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? >>>> >>>> I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would >>>> be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." >>>> >>>> I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. >>>> ~Kai >>>> >>>> >>>>> "Dora Smith" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes >>>>> >>>> and shapes for not a whole lot. >>>> >>>>> I ordered a small one for my betta. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Dora Smith >>>>> Austin, TX >>>>> tiggernut24@... >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>>> "Amber Berglund" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that >>>>> >>>> someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's >>>> in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer >>>> cones for breeding? >>>> >>>>> The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm >>>>> not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new >>>>> >>>> one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. >>>> These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone >>>> else is curious ;) >>>> >>>>> http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >>> You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >>> to >>> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >>> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >>> you >>> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >>> the >>> home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >>> which >>> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>> where >>> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >> to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >> on the home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >> replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45554	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Oh, I have PLENTY, LOL. The darn stuff grows as fast as Guppy's reproduce, no wonder it has the same common name ;) LOL. There is some also for sale on aquabid now and then. My guppy grass is invading my 55 gallon and had to move over to the betta tank to make a little more room in the 55 gallon, LOL. I also took a big clump downstairs and put it into my 55 gallon Angel fish tank, they seemed to like having more floating plants anyways. The only problem with the stuff is that it grows so fast, you have to clip it every other week at least just so it doesn't over grow the tank ;) It's pretty though. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > What's the best way to get some? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > > >> I think it's also called Naga Grass. >> My betta likes to shove his little body into a hollow ship I have in his >> tank, the hole in the side is about as wide as he is, LOL. So I think >> it's normal for at least some of them to like hiding in dark places. >> >> Amber >> >> Dora Smith wrote: >> >>> He wasn't inspecting it; he was living in it, and rarely came out. He >>> barely fit in it. I'd pick it up to make sure he was there, and there >>> he'd >>> be, all curled up, and very cross. I never heard of such a thing. At >>> least you know he liked to breathe his water! >>> >>> What is guppy grass? The web can't seem to agree. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Dora Smith >>> Austin, TX >>> tiggernut24@... >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:52 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Betta's are very curious by nature, they will inspect anything you put >>>> inside their tank (mine certainly does, LOL). He has his own canning jar >>>> for a cave and comes and goes out of it, he seems to prefer TINY caves >>>> that he can barely fit inside though, LOL. Weird little creature >>>> sometimes ;) He also has a bunch of guppy grass floating in his tank >>>> that he likes to rest on too. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> kuradi8 wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP >>>>> >>>>> Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? >>>>> >>>>> I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would >>>>> be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." >>>>> >>>>> I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. >>>>> ~Kai >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> "Dora Smith" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> and shapes for not a whole lot. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I ordered a small one for my betta. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> Dora Smith >>>>>> Austin, TX >>>>>> tiggernut24@... >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> "Amber Berglund" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's >>>>> in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer >>>>> cones for breeding? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so I'm >>>>>> not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. >>>>> These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone >>>>> else is curious ;) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Amber >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >>>> You. >>>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >>>> to >>>> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >>>> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>>> >>>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >>>> you >>>> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >>>> the >>>> home page. >>>> >>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >>>> which >>>> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>>> >>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>>> where >>>> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >>>> >>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >>> You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >>> to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >>> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >>> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >>> on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >>> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >>> replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45555	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Okay so back on topic ;) LOL. I had some small plant pots (the terra cotta kind) laying around that I had previously used to plant into in the aquarium before I switched the tank over to a Walstad setup instead. So I took those small pots and cut them in half length wise and put the halves into the fish tank to see if the pleco's like them. So far they hang around on the outside of them, but don't often go inside. Guess I will have to wait for them to really notice the caves ;) Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45556	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Cory grab bag

So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have watched their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed they offer a "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. I was considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had happened to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were with them. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45557	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag

Hey Amber - I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. The guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but efficient. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have > watched > their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed they offer a > "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. I was > considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had > happened > to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were with them. > > Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45558	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag

Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their grab bag may be exciting enough for me ;) Some day I will get some of these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras pulcher). Then I will post pictures all over, LOL ;) You're right, he's very prompt in responding, in the time it took me to post this message and the first and read your reply, he had already replied back to me, LOL. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hey Amber - > > I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. > Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from > people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these > fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. The > guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but > efficient. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have >> watched >> their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed they offer a >> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. I was >> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had >> happened >> to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were with them. >> >> Amber >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45559	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag

I wonder how the grab bag works. My understanding of the cories is that they like to school in groups of five/six or more. So if you get one of each of several different species, will they school together? Or does he send all the same species (doesn't sound like it)? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock > once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their > grab bag > may be exciting enough for me ;) > Some day I will get some of these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras > pulcher). Then I will post pictures all over, LOL ;) > You're right, he's very prompt in responding, in the time it took > me to > post this message and the first and read your reply, he had already > replied back to me, LOL. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Hey Amber - > > > > I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. > > Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from > > people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these > > fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. > The > > guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but > > efficient. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have > >> watched > >> their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed they > offer a > >> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. > I was > >> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had > >> happened > >> to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were with them. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45560	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Or decide they want to breed. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes Okay so back on topic ;) LOL. I had some small plant pots (the terra cotta kind) laying around that I had previously used to plant into in the aquarium before I switched the tank over to a Walstad setup instead. So I took those small pots and cut them in half length wise and put the halves into the fish tank to see if the pleco's like them. So far they hang around on the outside of them, but don't often go inside. Guess I will have to wait for them to really notice the caves ;) Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45561	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag

I was wondering the same thing myself. The description says: Well now is your chance to get the species you want without the need for spending a lot of $$$ ! Purchasing a grab bag may get you a single species, a few of one species and another, or a little of this and a little of that ! Grab bags are at our discretion as to what you will receive according to what we have on hand at the time. If you order more than one obviously they will send you more Cory's, they post a little tidbit about that at the bottom. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I wonder how the grab bag works. My understanding of the cories is > that they like to school in groups of five/six or more. So if you get > one of each of several different species, will they school together? > Or does he send all the same species (doesn't sound like it)? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock >> once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their >> grab bag >> may be exciting enough for me ;) >> Some day I will get some of these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras >> pulcher). Then I will post pictures all over, LOL ;) >> You're right, he's very prompt in responding, in the time it took >> me to >> post this message and the first and read your reply, he had already >> replied back to me, LOL. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Hey Amber - >>> >>> I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. >>> Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from >>> people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these >>> fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. >>> >> The >> >>> guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but >>> efficient. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have >>>> watched >>>> their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed they >>>> >> offer a >> >>>> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. >>>> >> I was >> >>>> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had >>>> happened >>>> to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were with them. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45562	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Okay so here's a pic of one of my pleco's checking out their new caves. I think this one is a female, but still not sure. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4263877210_d813f371b3_b.jpg Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > Or decide they want to breed. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > Okay so back on topic ;) LOL. > I had some small plant pots (the terra cotta kind) laying around that I > had previously used to plant into in the aquarium before I switched the > tank over to a Walstad setup instead. So I took those small pots and cut > them in half length wise and put the halves into the fish tank to see if > the pleco's like them. > So far they hang around on the outside of them, but don't often go > inside. Guess I will have to wait for them to really notice the caves ;) > > Amber > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

It looks big enough to have bristles and since there aren't any, I'd say it's a female. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes Okay so here's a pic of one of my pleco's checking out their new caves. I think this one is a female, but still not sure. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4263877210_d813f371b3_b.jpg Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > Or decide they want to breed. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > > Okay so back on topic ;) LOL. > I had some small plant pots (the terra cotta kind) laying around that > I had previously used to plant into in the aquarium before I switched > the tank over to a Walstad setup instead. So I took those small pots > and cut them in half length wise and put the halves into the fish tank > to see if the pleco's like them. > So far they hang around on the outside of them, but don't often go > inside. Guess I will have to wait for them to really notice the caves > ;) > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45564	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Very curious fish. Pretty, too. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > Okay so here's a pic of one of my pleco's checking out their new caves. > I think this one is a female, but still not sure. > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4263877210_d813f371b3_b.jpg > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: >> >> Or decide they want to breed. >> >> _____ >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:19 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes >> >> Okay so back on topic ;) LOL. >> I had some small plant pots (the terra cotta kind) laying around that I >> had previously used to plant into in the aquarium before I switched the >> tank over to a Walstad setup instead. So I took those small pots and cut >> them in half length wise and put the halves into the fish tank to see if >> the pleco's like them. >> So far they hang around on the outside of them, but don't often go >> inside. Guess I will have to wait for them to really notice the caves ;) >> >> Amber >> >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45565	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Filter for betta

I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45566	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes

Any chance of sending me some? I don't know exactly how one sends it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes > Oh, I have PLENTY, LOL. The darn stuff grows as fast as Guppy's > reproduce, no wonder it has the same common name ;) LOL. > There is some also for sale on aquabid now and then. > My guppy grass is invading my 55 gallon and had to move over to the > betta tank to make a little more room in the 55 gallon, LOL. I also took > a big clump downstairs and put it into my 55 gallon Angel fish tank, > they seemed to like having more floating plants anyways. > The only problem with the stuff is that it grows so fast, you have to > clip it every other week at least just so it doesn't over grow the tank > ;) It's pretty though. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> What's the best way to get some? >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:59 PM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes >> >> >> >>> I think it's also called Naga Grass. >>> My betta likes to shove his little body into a hollow ship I have in his >>> tank, the hole in the side is about as wide as he is, LOL. So I think >>> it's normal for at least some of them to like hiding in dark places. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Dora Smith wrote: >>> >>>> He wasn't inspecting it; he was living in it, and rarely came out. He >>>> barely fit in it. I'd pick it up to make sure he was there, and there >>>> he'd >>>> be, all curled up, and very cross. I never heard of such a thing. At >>>> least you know he liked to breathe his water! >>>> >>>> What is guppy grass? The web can't seem to agree. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Dora Smith >>>> Austin, TX >>>> tiggernut24@... >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >>>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:52 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Pleco caves/cones/tubes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Betta's are very curious by nature, they will inspect anything you put >>>>> inside their tank (mine certainly does, LOL). He has his own canning >>>>> jar >>>>> for a cave and comes and goes out of it, he seems to prefer TINY caves >>>>> that he can barely fit inside though, LOL. Weird little creature >>>>> sometimes ;) He also has a bunch of guppy grass floating in his tank >>>>> that he likes to rest on too. >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> kuradi8 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Cool, Dora! Did you get him a bicycle too??? :oP >>>>>> >>>>>> Seriously, would a Betta even want a cave? >>>>>> >>>>>> I was under the impression that the best tank decor for a Betta would >>>>>> be a plant to rest on its leaves "like a butterfly." >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm curious to hear how that cave works out for him. >>>>>> ~Kai >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Dora Smith" wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I found some "cichlid stones", which are caves in different sizes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> and shapes for not a whole lot. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I ordered a small one for my betta. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yours, >>>>>>> Dora Smith >>>>>>> Austin, TX >>>>>>> tiggernut24@... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Amber Berglund" wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Okay so I have been looking at some cones/caves on aquabid that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> someone > makes by hand. If I was planning on breeding my BN pleco's >>>>>> in the future would it matter if they have a tube or do they prefer >>>>>> cones for breeding? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> The seller has quite a few types, and even does special orders so >>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>> not worried about that part, I just don't want to have to buy a new >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> one later if the one I get now turns out to not be the right choice. >>>>>> These are the caves/cones/tubes that I was looking at, in case anyone >>>>>> else is curious ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/ <http://www.rosenthalpottery.com/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Amber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >>>>> You. >>>>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>>>> important >>>>> to >>>>> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >>>>> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>>>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >>>>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>>>> >>>>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >>>>> you >>>>> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >>>>> the >>>>> home page. >>>>> >>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >>>>> which >>>>> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>>>> >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>>>> where >>>>> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >>>>> >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>>>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >>>> You. >>>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >>>> to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >>>> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>>> >>>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >>>> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >>>> on the home page. >>>> >>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >>>> which >>>> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>>> >>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>>> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >>>> replies. >>>> >>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >>> You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >>> to >>> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >>> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >>> you >>> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >>> the >>> home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >>> which >>> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>> where >>> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >> to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >> on the home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >> replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45567	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

While it might filter some debris out of the water (mechanical filtration), it would not provide any biological filtration (nitrogen cycle) since any N-bacteria would die off when the filter is not running after a couple of hours. Of course, a 5G tank with a single male Betta and live plants really shouldn't have any nitrogen cycle issues anyhow. Why were you having to do PWC's every other day? That type of schedule might be needed on 1G sized bowls but 5G of water volume and live plants should provide enough waste dilution and waste removal so that a weekly PWC might be all that is needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45568	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

Lainey, What you probably should have done, and may still want to do, is to use a sponge filter in that tank. Sponge filters come in many sizes and are just a sponge material with a couple of tubes, one to deliver air and the other to pull water through the sponge driven by the air. You would want to set a relatively slow flow rate, as judged by the number of bubbles per a given time period. Remember, bettas come from waters that move slowly, if at all, so, we would want to recreate that, as much s possible, especially for the long finned varieties available today. The drawback is that it probably would not be any quieter than what you have now, because the air pump would be of the vibrator kind, however, the advantage is that you could make efforts quiet the noise in several different ways. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45569	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag

I was curious about this so I did a Google search to see if others had discussed what they received in their "grab bag" but it seems that this is a relatively new *item* that Corysrus.com is selling. The first appearance of "corydoras grab bag" showed up back in Sept. 2009 and were selling for $20.00 then, now $25.00 with FREE shipping. I didn't see any other forum posts about this except for this thread here. A search of Aquabid's forums found no hits either. Hmmmm.. it seems someone, somewhere would have posted what they received, the condition of the fish, etc. Make sure you read all the *warnings* about USPS Priority Mail (2-3 day), "as is", no guarantee on live arrival unless you pay for the higher priced shipping, etc. Not to say this isn't a good deal, just caveat emptor. Ooops.. I take some of the above back. I changed my Google key words and found this 2-page thread on PlanetCatfish.com from back in June 2009. http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26549 This guy got four fish in his grab bag but it seems they shoaled OK with his existing two fish so that worked out for him. I didn't read page two of the thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag I was wondering the same thing myself. The description says: Well now is your chance to get the species you want without the need for spending a lot of $$$ ! Purchasing a grab bag may get you a single species, a few of one species and another, or a little of this and a little of that ! Grab bags are at our discretion as to what you will receive according to what we have on hand at the time. If you order more than one obviously they will send you more Cory's, they post a little tidbit about that at the bottom. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I wonder how the grab bag works. My understanding of the cories is > that they like to school in groups of five/six or more. So if you get > one of each of several different species, will they school together? > Or does he send all the same species (doesn't sound like it)? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock >> once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their grab >> bag may be exciting enough for me ;) Some day I will get some of >> these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras pulcher). Then I will post >> pictures all over, LOL ;) You're right, he's very prompt in >> responding, in the time it took me to post this message and the first >> and read your reply, he had already replied back to me, LOL. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Hey Amber - >>> >>> I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. >>> Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from >>> people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these >>> fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. >>> >> The >> >>> guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but >>> efficient. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have >>>> watched their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed >>>> they >>>> >> offer a >> >>>> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. >>>> >> I was >> >>>> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had >>>> happened to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were >>>> with them. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and >> post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45570	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag

I emailed to ask if they would use my fed ex account, and they said yes. They also have a lot of reviews listed on their site as well. I will check out that link, thanks. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I was curious about this so I did a Google search to see if others had > discussed what they received in their "grab bag" but it seems that > this is a > relatively new *item* that Corysrus.com is selling. The first > appearance of > "corydoras grab bag" showed up back in Sept. 2009 and were selling for > $20.00 then, now $25.00 with FREE shipping. > > I didn't see any other forum posts about this except for this thread here. > A search of Aquabid's forums found no hits either. > > Hmmmm.. it seems someone, somewhere would have posted what they received, > the condition of the fish, etc. Make sure you read all the *warnings* > about > USPS Priority Mail (2-3 day), "as is", no guarantee on live arrival unless > you pay for the higher priced shipping, etc. Not to say this isn't a good > deal, just caveat emptor. > > Ooops.. I take some of the above back. I changed my Google key words and > found this 2-page thread on PlanetCatfish.com from back in June 2009. > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26549 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26549> > > This guy got four fish in his grab bag but it seems they shoaled OK > with his > existing two fish so that worked out for him. I didn't read page two > of the > thread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag > > I was wondering the same thing myself. The description says: > Well now is your chance to get the species you want without the need for > spending a lot of $$$ ! Purchasing a grab bag may get you a single > species, > a few of one species and another, or a little of this and a little of > that ! > Grab bags are at our discretion as to what you will receive according to > what we have on hand at the time. > > If you order more than one obviously they will send you more Cory's, they > post a little tidbit about that at the bottom. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I wonder how the grab bag works. My understanding of the cories is > > that they like to school in groups of five/six or more. So if you get > > one of each of several different species, will they school together? > > Or does he send all the same species (doesn't sound like it)? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock > >> once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their grab > >> bag may be exciting enough for me ;) Some day I will get some of > >> these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras pulcher). Then I will post > >> pictures all over, LOL ;) You're right, he's very prompt in > >> responding, in the time it took me to post this message and the first > >> and read your reply, he had already replied back to me, LOL. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >>> Hey Amber - > >>> > >>> I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. > >>> Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from > >>> people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these > >>> fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. > >>> > >> The > >> > >>> guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but > >>> efficient. > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >>> > >>> On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have > >>>> watched their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed > >>>> they > >>>> > >> offer a > >> > >>>> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. > >>>> > >> I was > >> > >>>> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had > >>>> happened to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were > >>>> with them. > >>>> > >>>> Amber > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> > >> Thank You. > >> > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > >>> > >> ((((º> > >> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >> subject)" <- > >> > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > >>> > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > >> > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > >>> > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > >>> > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and > >> post replies. > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >>> > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45571	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

Regarding air pumps and efforts to quiet them down. I placed a small air pump in my dining area and ran a long airline into the bedroom. I hear nothing but the bubbles. I never spend any time in the dining area so the pump making noise in that room does not bother me. I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon betta tank but I could not accomodate a heater and it has been too cold lately. So the angry blue and mustard betta is now in a community tank acting upset as usual :) If your local fish store does not have the sponge filters as Steve mentioned, check out ebay. There are some fairly inexpensive ones for sale on there lately. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 4:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Lainey, What you probably should have done, and may still want to do, is to use a sponge filter in that tank. Sponge filters come in many sizes and are just a sponge material with a couple of tubes, one to deliver air and the other to pull water through the sponge driven by the air. You would want to set a relatively slow flow rate, as judged by the number of bubbles per a given time period. Remember, bettas come from waters that move slowly, if at all, so, we would want to recreate that, as much s possible, especially for the long finned varieties available today. The drawback is that it probably would not be any quieter than what you have now, because the air pump would be of the vibrator kind, however, the advantage is that you could make efforts quiet the noise in several different ways. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45572	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

Mike said: "I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon Betta tank but I could not accommodate a heater and it has been too cold lately." ......... Something that I've theorized in the past, but have never actually done the experiment to test my theory, would be raising or lowering the height of the air pump as a way of heating/cooling a tank. We all know... or should know... that hot air rises so the air near the ceiling of a room is going to be noticeably warmer than the air at the floor of a room. This can be used with air pumps to partially heat/cool a small tank that is kept at mid-height in a room. If you want the water warmer, raise the air pump to up near the ceiling. If you want the water cooler, lower the air pump down to the floor. Of course, if you have baseboard heating, this would have to be considered when putting the air pump on the floor. Same with an air pump near the ceiling... you don't want the central air/heat blowing right on the air pump. In theory, this should help to slightly raise or lower the temperature of a non-heated tank so that it differs from the mid-height ambient room temperature. Monitor your tank's temperature when using this method to be sure things do not change too much, too fast. Another filter that works in small tanks and is quiet is the Hagen Elite Stingray filters that sit in the bottom of a tank. Other small internal filters would also work and be quiet and from all I've read, internal filters will also help heat up a small tank since the motor's heat is dissipated into the water. Here's an Elite 5 (for up to 5G tanks) on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280397559170&rvr_id=&crlp =1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=1afaf6921260a0aad1f631f6ff3d6606&itemid=280397 559170&ff4=263602_263622 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Regarding air pumps and efforts to quiet them down. I placed a small air pump in my dining area and ran a long airline into the bedroom. I hear nothing but the bubbles. I never spend any time in the dining area so the pump making noise in that room does not bother me. I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon betta tank but I could not accomodate a heater and it has been too cold lately. So the angry blue and mustard betta is now in a community tank acting upset as usual :) If your local fish store does not have the sponge filters as Steve mentioned, check out ebay. There are some fairly inexpensive ones for sale on there lately. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 4:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Lainey, What you probably should have done, and may still want to do, is to use a sponge filter in that tank. Sponge filters come in many sizes and are just a sponge material with a couple of tubes, one to deliver air and the other to pull water through the sponge driven by the air. You would want to set a relatively slow flow rate, as judged by the number of bubbles per a given time period. Remember, bettas come from waters that move slowly, if at all, so, we would want to recreate that, as much s possible, especially for the long finned varieties available today. The drawback is that it probably would not be any quieter than what you have now, because the air pump would be of the vibrator kind, however, the advantage is that you could make efforts quiet the noise in several different ways. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45573	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

Hi Lenny, I do that in my fishroom with my linear air pumps. Winter time I move them to the top shelf in the fish room, about 6 feet off the floor and in summer they go right on the concrete floor. In my case the little airpump for the Betta would not do anything being elevated as the house is not heated at all unless I am home. My fishroom is the warmest room in the house. This winter on several occasions I have thought about dragging my sleeping bag out to the fishroom and sleeping there. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 5:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Mike said: "I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon Betta tank but I could not accommodate a heater and it has been too cold lately." ......... Something that I've theorized in the past, but have never actually done the experiment to test my theory, would be raising or lowering the height of the air pump as a way of heating/cooling a tank. We all know... or should know... that hot air rises so the air near the ceiling of a room is going to be noticeably warmer than the air at the floor of a room. This can be used with air pumps to partially heat/cool a small tank that is kept at mid-height in a room. If you want the water warmer, raise the air pump to up near the ceiling. If you want the water cooler, lower the air pump down to the floor. Of course, if you have baseboard heating, this would have to be considered when putting the air pump on the floor. Same with an air pump near the ceiling... you don't want the central air/heat blowing right on the air pump. In theory, this should help to slightly raise or lower the temperature of a non-heated tank so that it differs from the mid-height ambient room temperature. Monitor your tank's temperature when using this method to be sure things do not change too much, too fast. Another filter that works in small tanks and is quiet is the Hagen Elite Stingray filters that sit in the bottom of a tank. Other small internal filters would also work and be quiet and from all I've read, internal filters will also help heat up a small tank since the motor's heat is dissipated into the water. Here's an Elite 5 (for up to 5G tanks) on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280397559170&rvr_id=&crlp =1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=1afaf6921260a0aad1f631f6ff3d6606&itemid=280 397 559170&ff4=263602_263622 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Regarding air pumps and efforts to quiet them down. I placed a small air pump in my dining area and ran a long airline into the bedroom. I hear nothing but the bubbles. I never spend any time in the dining area so the pump making noise in that room does not bother me. I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon betta tank but I could not accomodate a heater and it has been too cold lately. So the angry blue and mustard betta is now in a community tank acting upset as usual :) If your local fish store does not have the sponge filters as Steve mentioned, check out ebay. There are some fairly inexpensive ones for sale on there lately. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 4:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Lainey, What you probably should have done, and may still want to do, is to use a sponge filter in that tank. Sponge filters come in many sizes and are just a sponge material with a couple of tubes, one to deliver air and the other to pull water through the sponge driven by the air. You would want to set a relatively slow flow rate, as judged by the number of bubbles per a given time period. Remember, bettas come from waters that move slowly, if at all, so, we would want to recreate that, as much s possible, especially for the long finned varieties available today. The drawback is that it probably would not be any quieter than what you have now, because the air pump would be of the vibrator kind, however, the advantage is that you could make efforts quiet the noise in several different ways. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

How cold does it get in your non-heated house? Even without heat, the air temp at the top of a room would be noticeably warmer than the floor temp. Maybe you need to put a hydraulic lift under your bed so you can raise/lower it to find a comfortable room temp. ;-) I think this would work for you. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/product-review-harbor-freight-hydraulic-sci ssor-lift/ Or for the Tim Allen effect... http://www.andrewcasteel.net/skybed/ (MORE POWER!!! ARGH, ARGH!!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Hi Lenny, I do that in my fishroom with my linear air pumps. Winter time I move them to the top shelf in the fish room, about 6 feet off the floor and in summer they go right on the concrete floor. In my case the little airpump for the Betta would not do anything being elevated as the house is not heated at all unless I am home. My fishroom is the warmest room in the house. This winter on several occasions I have thought about dragging my sleeping bag out to the fishroom and sleeping there. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 5:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Mike said: "I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon Betta tank but I could not accommodate a heater and it has been too cold lately." ......... Something that I've theorized in the past, but have never actually done the experiment to test my theory, would be raising or lowering the height of the air pump as a way of heating/cooling a tank. We all know... or should know... that hot air rises so the air near the ceiling of a room is going to be noticeably warmer than the air at the floor of a room. This can be used with air pumps to partially heat/cool a small tank that is kept at mid-height in a room. If you want the water warmer, raise the air pump to up near the ceiling. If you want the water cooler, lower the air pump down to the floor. Of course, if you have baseboard heating, this would have to be considered when putting the air pump on the floor. Same with an air pump near the ceiling... you don't want the central air/heat blowing right on the air pump. In theory, this should help to slightly raise or lower the temperature of a non-heated tank so that it differs from the mid-height ambient room temperature. Monitor your tank's temperature when using this method to be sure things do not change too much, too fast. Another filter that works in small tanks and is quiet is the Hagen Elite Stingray filters that sit in the bottom of a tank. Other small internal filters would also work and be quiet and from all I've read, internal filters will also help heat up a small tank since the motor's heat is dissipated into the water. Here's an Elite 5 (for up to 5G tanks) on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280397559170&rvr_id=& crlp =1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=1afaf6921260a0aad1f631f6ff3d6606&itemid=280 397 559170&ff4=263602_263622 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Regarding air pumps and efforts to quiet them down. I placed a small air pump in my dining area and ran a long airline into the bedroom. I hear nothing but the bubbles. I never spend any time in the dining area so the pump making noise in that room does not bother me. I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon betta tank but I could not accomodate a heater and it has been too cold lately. So the angry blue and mustard betta is now in a community tank acting upset as usual :) If your local fish store does not have the sponge filters as Steve mentioned, check out ebay. There are some fairly inexpensive ones for sale on there lately. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 4:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Lainey, What you probably should have done, and may still want to do, is to use a sponge filter in that tank. Sponge filters come in many sizes and are just a sponge material with a couple of tubes, one to deliver air and the other to pull water through the sponge driven by the air. You would want to set a relatively slow flow rate, as judged by the number of bubbles per a given time period. Remember, bettas come from waters that move slowly, if at all, so, we would want to recreate that, as much s possible, especially for the long finned varieties available today. The drawback is that it probably would not be any quieter than what you have now, because the air pump would be of the vibrator kind, however, the advantage is that you could make efforts quiet the noise in several different ways. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45575	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta

LOL. I have a loft bed. Always nice and toasty up there. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 8:30 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta How cold does it get in your non-heated house? Even without heat, the air temp at the top of a room would be noticeably warmer than the floor temp. Maybe you need to put a hydraulic lift under your bed so you can raise/lower it to find a comfortable room temp. ;-) I think this would work for you. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/product-review-harbor-freight-hydraulic-sci ssor-lift/ Or for the Tim Allen effect... http://www.andrewcasteel.net/skybed/ (MORE POWER!!! ARGH, ARGH!!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Hi Lenny, I do that in my fishroom with my linear air pumps. Winter time I move them to the top shelf in the fish room, about 6 feet off the floor and in summer they go right on the concrete floor. In my case the little airpump for the Betta would not do anything being elevated as the house is not heated at all unless I am home. My fishroom is the warmest room in the house. This winter on several occasions I have thought about dragging my sleeping bag out to the fishroom and sleeping there. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 5:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Mike said: "I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon Betta tank but I could not accommodate a heater and it has been too cold lately." ......... Something that I've theorized in the past, but have never actually done the experiment to test my theory, would be raising or lowering the height of the air pump as a way of heating/cooling a tank. We all know... or should know... that hot air rises so the air near the ceiling of a room is going to be noticeably warmer than the air at the floor of a room. This can be used with air pumps to partially heat/cool a small tank that is kept at mid-height in a room. If you want the water warmer, raise the air pump to up near the ceiling. If you want the water cooler, lower the air pump down to the floor. Of course, if you have baseboard heating, this would have to be considered when putting the air pump on the floor. Same with an air pump near the ceiling... you don't want the central air/heat blowing right on the air pump. In theory, this should help to slightly raise or lower the temperature of a non-heated tank so that it differs from the mid-height ambient room temperature. Monitor your tank's temperature when using this method to be sure things do not change too much, too fast. Another filter that works in small tanks and is quiet is the Hagen Elite Stingray filters that sit in the bottom of a tank. Other small internal filters would also work and be quiet and from all I've read, internal filters will also help heat up a small tank since the motor's heat is dissipated into the water. Here's an Elite 5 (for up to 5G tanks) on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280397559170&rvr_id=& crlp =1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=1afaf6921260a0aad1f631f6ff3d6606&itemid=280 397 559170&ff4=263602_263622 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Regarding air pumps and efforts to quiet them down. I placed a small air pump in my dining area and ran a long airline into the bedroom. I hear nothing but the bubbles. I never spend any time in the dining area so the pump making noise in that room does not bother me. I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon betta tank but I could not accomodate a heater and it has been too cold lately. So the angry blue and mustard betta is now in a community tank acting upset as usual :) If your local fish store does not have the sponge filters as Steve mentioned, check out ebay. There are some fairly inexpensive ones for sale on there lately. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 4:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Lainey, What you probably should have done, and may still want to do, is to use a sponge filter in that tank. Sponge filters come in many sizes and are just a sponge material with a couple of tubes, one to deliver air and the other to pull water through the sponge driven by the air. You would want to set a relatively slow flow rate, as judged by the number of bubbles per a given time period. Remember, bettas come from waters that move slowly, if at all, so, we would want to recreate that, as much s possible, especially for the long finned varieties available today. The drawback is that it probably would not be any quieter than what you have now, because the air pump would be of the vibrator kind, however, the advantage is that you could make efforts quiet the noise in several different ways. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45576	From: harry perry	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question

Will different kinds of cories school together?. Harry --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 7:55 PM   I was curious about this so I did a Google search to see if others had discussed what they received in their "grab bag" but it seems that this is a relatively new *item* that Corysrus.com is selling. The first appearance of "corydoras grab bag" showed up back in Sept. 2009 and were selling for $20.00 then, now $25.00 with FREE shipping. I didn't see any other forum posts about this except for this thread here. A search of Aquabid's forums found no hits either. Hmmmm.. it seems someone, somewhere would have posted what they received, the condition of the fish, etc. Make sure you read all the *warnings* about USPS Priority Mail (2-3 day), "as is", no guarantee on live arrival unless you pay for the higher priced shipping, etc. Not to say this isn't a good deal, just caveat emptor. Ooops.. I take some of the above back. I changed my Google key words and found this 2-page thread on PlanetCatfish. com from back in June 2009. http://www.planetca tfish.com/ forum/viewtopic. php?f=6&t= 26549 This guy got four fish in his grab bag but it seems they shoaled OK with his existing two fish so that worked out for him. I didn't read page two of the thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag I was wondering the same thing myself. The description says: Well now is your chance to get the species you want without the need for spending a lot of $$$ ! Purchasing a grab bag may get you a single species, a few of one species and another, or a little of this and a little of that ! Grab bags are at our discretion as to what you will receive according to what we have on hand at the time. If you order more than one obviously they will send you more Cory's, they post a little tidbit about that at the bottom. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I wonder how the grab bag works. My understanding of the cories is > that they like to school in groups of five/six or more. So if you get > one of each of several different species, will they school together? > Or does he send all the same species (doesn't sound like it)? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock >> once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their grab >> bag may be exciting enough for me ;) Some day I will get some of >> these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras pulcher). Then I will post >> pictures all over, LOL ;) You're right, he's very prompt in >> responding, in the time it took me to post this message and the first >> and read your reply, he had already replied back to me, LOL. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Hey Amber - >>> >>> I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. >>> Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from >>> people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these >>> fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. >>> >> The >> >>> guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but >>> efficient. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com >>> >>> On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have >>>> watched their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed >>>> they >>>> >> offer a >> >>>> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. >>>> >> I was >> >>>> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had >>>> happened to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were >>>> with them. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and >> post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45577	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question

Typically if they look similar they will school together, but it just depends on the Cory's pretty much. Some do, some don't. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Will different kinds of cories school together?. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 7:55 PM > > > > I was curious about this so I did a Google search to see if others had > > discussed what they received in their "grab bag" but it seems that > this is a > > relatively new *item* that Corysrus.com is selling. The first > appearance of > > "corydoras grab bag" showed up back in Sept. 2009 and were selling for > > $20.00 then, now $25.00 with FREE shipping. > > I didn't see any other forum posts about this except for this thread here. > > A search of Aquabid's forums found no hits either. > > Hmmmm.. it seems someone, somewhere would have posted what they received, > > the condition of the fish, etc. Make sure you read all the *warnings* > about > > USPS Priority Mail (2-3 day), "as is", no guarantee on live arrival unless > > you pay for the higher priced shipping, etc. Not to say this isn't a good > > deal, just caveat emptor. > > Ooops.. I take some of the above back. I changed my Google key words and > > found this 2-page thread on PlanetCatfish. com from back in June 2009. > > http://www.planetca tfish.com/ forum/viewtopic. php?f=6&t= 26549 > > This guy got four fish in his grab bag but it seems they shoaled OK > with his > > existing two fish so that worked out for him. I didn't read page two > of the > > thread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag > > I was wondering the same thing myself. The description says: > > Well now is your chance to get the species you want without the need for > > spending a lot of $$$ ! Purchasing a grab bag may get you a single > species, > > a few of one species and another, or a little of this and a little of > that ! > > Grab bags are at our discretion as to what you will receive according to > > what we have on hand at the time. > > If you order more than one obviously they will send you more Cory's, they > > post a little tidbit about that at the bottom. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > I wonder how the grab bag works. My understanding of the cories is > > > that they like to school in groups of five/six or more. So if you get > > > one of each of several different species, will they school together? > > > Or does he send all the same species (doesn't sound like it)? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock > > >> once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their grab > > >> bag may be exciting enough for me ;) Some day I will get some of > > >> these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras pulcher). Then I will post > > >> pictures all over, LOL ;) You're right, he's very prompt in > > >> responding, in the time it took me to post this message and the first > > >> and read your reply, he had already replied back to me, LOL. > > >> > > >> Amber > > >> > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hey Amber - > > >>> > > >>> I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. > > >>> Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from > > >>> people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these > > >>> fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. > > >>> > > >> The > > >> > > >>> guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but > > >>> efficient. > > >>> > > >>> Lainey > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > >>> > > >>> On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have > > >>>> watched their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed > > >>>> they > > >>>> > > >> offer a > > >> > > >>>> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. > > >>>> > > >> I was > > >> > > >>>> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had > > >>>> happened to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were > > >>>> with them. > > >>>> > > >>>> Amber > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > >>> > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > >>> > > >> Thank You. > > >> > > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > >>> > > >> ((((º> > > >> > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > >>> > > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > >> subject)" <- > > >> > > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > >>> > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > >> > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > >>> > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > >>> > > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > >> > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the > > >>> > > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > >> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail > > >>> > > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > >> post replies. > > >> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > >>> > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45578	From: harry perry	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question

Oh, so it depends whether the cory is prejudice or not. Harry --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag/A question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 10:32 PM   Typically if they look similar they will school together, but it just depends on the Cory's pretty much. Some do, some don't. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Will different kinds of cories school together?. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 7:55 PM > > > > I was curious about this so I did a Google search to see if others had > > discussed what they received in their "grab bag" but it seems that > this is a > > relatively new *item* that Corysrus.com is selling. The first > appearance of > > "corydoras grab bag" showed up back in Sept. 2009 and were selling for > > $20.00 then, now $25.00 with FREE shipping. > > I didn't see any other forum posts about this except for this thread here. > > A search of Aquabid's forums found no hits either. > > Hmmmm.. it seems someone, somewhere would have posted what they received, > > the condition of the fish, etc. Make sure you read all the *warnings* > about > > USPS Priority Mail (2-3 day), "as is", no guarantee on live arrival unless > > you pay for the higher priced shipping, etc. Not to say this isn't a good > > deal, just caveat emptor. > > Ooops.. I take some of the above back. I changed my Google key words and > > found this 2-page thread on PlanetCatfish. com from back in June 2009. > > http://www.planetca tfish.com/ forum/viewtopic. php?f=6&t= 26549 > > This guy got four fish in his grab bag but it seems they shoaled OK > with his > > existing two fish so that worked out for him. I didn't read page two > of the > > thread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag > > I was wondering the same thing myself. The description says: > > Well now is your chance to get the species you want without the need for > > spending a lot of $$$ ! Purchasing a grab bag may get you a single > species, > > a few of one species and another, or a little of this and a little of > that ! > > Grab bags are at our discretion as to what you will receive according to > > what we have on hand at the time. > > If you order more than one obviously they will send you more Cory's, they > > post a little tidbit about that at the bottom. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > I wonder how the grab bag works. My understanding of the cories is > > > that they like to school in groups of five/six or more. So if you get > > > one of each of several different species, will they school together? > > > Or does he send all the same species (doesn't sound like it)? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock > > >> once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their grab > > >> bag may be exciting enough for me ;) Some day I will get some of > > >> these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras pulcher). Then I will post > > >> pictures all over, LOL ;) You're right, he's very prompt in > > >> responding, in the time it took me to post this message and the first > > >> and read your reply, he had already replied back to me, LOL. > > >> > > >> Amber > > >> > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hey Amber - > > >>> > > >>> I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. > > >>> Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from > > >>> people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these > > >>> fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. > > >>> > > >> The > > >> > > >>> guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but > > >>> efficient. > > >>> > > >>> Lainey > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > >>> > > >>> On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have > > >>>> watched their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed > > >>>> they > > >>>> > > >> offer a > > >> > > >>>> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. > > >>>> > > >> I was > > >> > > >>>> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had > > >>>> happened to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were > > >>>> with them. > > >>>> > > >>>> Amber > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > >>> > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > >>> > > >> Thank You. > > >> > > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > >>> > > >> ((((º> > > >> > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > >>> > > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > >> subject)" <- > > >> > > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > >>> > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > >> > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > >>> > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > >>> > > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > >> > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the > > >>> > > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > >> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail > > >>> > > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > >> post replies. > > >> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > >>> > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45579	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

Lenny, For several years I lived in an old farmhouse with a bunch of guys, (and women passing through <g>), where the heat was set for the lowest temperature available on the thermostat. We would go through about a half tank of oil a New England winter. We used a wood stove to keep the place warm. Occasionally the fire would effectively go out (i.e. not enough to complete die, but enough not to provide heat) and once in a while it would go out. I had a heated waterbed, so it never was bad until I had to get up on a cold morning <g>, when no one was around or awake in the middle of the night to feed the fire. Yet, we did keep several tanks at various places in the house. However, we would need to teach people that the fish in a common area of the house did not like White Russians <g>.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta How cold does it get in your non-heated house? Even without heat, the air temp at the top of a room would be noticeably warmer than the floor temp. Maybe you need to put a hydraulic lift under your bed so you can raise/lower it to find a comfortable room temp. ;-) I think this would work for you. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/product-review-harbor-freight-hydraulic-sci ssor-lift/ Or for the Tim Allen effect... http://www.andrewcasteel.net/skybed/ (MORE POWER!!! ARGH, ARGH!!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Hi Lenny, I do that in my fishroom with my linear air pumps. Winter time I move them to the top shelf in the fish room, about 6 feet off the floor and in summer they go right on the concrete floor. In my case the little airpump for the Betta would not do anything being elevated as the house is not heated at all unless I am home. My fishroom is the warmest room in the house. This winter on several occasions I have thought about dragging my sleeping bag out to the fishroom and sleeping there. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 5:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Mike said: "I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon Betta tank but I could not accommodate a heater and it has been too cold lately." ......... Something that I've theorized in the past, but have never actually done the experiment to test my theory, would be raising or lowering the height of the air pump as a way of heating/cooling a tank. We all know... or should know... that hot air rises so the air near the ceiling of a room is going to be noticeably warmer than the air at the floor of a room. This can be used with air pumps to partially heat/cool a small tank that is kept at mid-height in a room. If you want the water warmer, raise the air pump to up near the ceiling. If you want the water cooler, lower the air pump down to the floor. Of course, if you have baseboard heating, this would have to be considered when putting the air pump on the floor. Same with an air pump near the ceiling... you don't want the central air/heat blowing right on the air pump. In theory, this should help to slightly raise or lower the temperature of a non-heated tank so that it differs from the mid-height ambient room temperature. Monitor your tank's temperature when using this method to be sure things do not change too much, too fast. Another filter that works in small tanks and is quiet is the Hagen Elite Stingray filters that sit in the bottom of a tank. Other small internal filters would also work and be quiet and from all I've read, internal filters will also help heat up a small tank since the motor's heat is dissipated into the water. Here's an Elite 5 (for up to 5G tanks) on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280397559170&rvr_id=& crlp =1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=1afaf6921260a0aad1f631f6ff3d6606&itemid=280 397 559170&ff4=263602_263622 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Regarding air pumps and efforts to quiet them down. I placed a small air pump in my dining area and ran a long airline into the bedroom. I hear nothing but the bubbles. I never spend any time in the dining area so the pump making noise in that room does not bother me. I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon betta tank but I could not accomodate a heater and it has been too cold lately. So the angry blue and mustard betta is now in a community tank acting upset as usual :) If your local fish store does not have the sponge filters as Steve mentioned, check out ebay. There are some fairly inexpensive ones for sale on there lately. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 4:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Lainey, What you probably should have done, and may still want to do, is to use a sponge filter in that tank. Sponge filters come in many sizes and are just a sponge material with a couple of tubes, one to deliver air and the other to pull water through the sponge driven by the air. You would want to set a relatively slow flow rate, as judged by the number of bubbles per a given time period. Remember, bettas come from waters that move slowly, if at all, so, we would want to recreate that, as much s possible, especially for the long finned varieties available today. The drawback is that it probably would not be any quieter than what you have now, because the air pump would be of the vibrator kind, however, the advantage is that you could make efforts quiet the noise in several different ways. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45580	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question

LOL, yeah I guess you could say that ;) I have peppered cory's and albino aeneus cory's, so who knows if they would school with my current Cory's. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Oh, so it depends whether the cory is prejudice or not. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag/A question > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 10:32 PM > > > > Typically if they look similar they will school together, but it just > > depends on the Cory's pretty much. Some do, some don't. > > Amber > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > Will different kinds of cories school together?. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com > > > <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > %40yahoogroups. com> > > > Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 7:55 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I was curious about this so I did a Google search to see if others had > > > > > > discussed what they received in their "grab bag" but it seems that > > > this is a > > > > > > relatively new *item* that Corysrus.com is selling. The first > > > appearance of > > > > > > "corydoras grab bag" showed up back in Sept. 2009 and were selling for > > > > > > $20.00 then, now $25.00 with FREE shipping. > > > > > > I didn't see any other forum posts about this except for this thread > here. > > > > > > A search of Aquabid's forums found no hits either. > > > > > > Hmmmm.. it seems someone, somewhere would have posted what they > received, > > > > > > the condition of the fish, etc. Make sure you read all the *warnings* > > > about > > > > > > USPS Priority Mail (2-3 day), "as is", no guarantee on live arrival > unless > > > > > > you pay for the higher priced shipping, etc. Not to say this isn't a > good > > > > > > deal, just caveat emptor. > > > > > > Ooops.. I take some of the above back. I changed my Google key words and > > > > > > found this 2-page thread on PlanetCatfish. com from back in June 2009. > > > > > > http://www.planetca tfish.com/ forum/viewtopic. php?f=6&t= 26549 > > > > > > This guy got four fish in his grab bag but it seems they shoaled OK > > > with his > > > > > > existing two fish so that worked out for him. I didn't read page two > > > of the > > > > > > thread. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. > > > com] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:13 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag > > > > > > I was wondering the same thing myself. The description says: > > > > > > Well now is your chance to get the species you want without the need for > > > > > > spending a lot of $$$ ! Purchasing a grab bag may get you a single > > > species, > > > > > > a few of one species and another, or a little of this and a little of > > > that ! > > > > > > Grab bags are at our discretion as to what you will receive according to > > > > > > what we have on hand at the time. > > > > > > If you order more than one obviously they will send you more Cory's, > they > > > > > > post a little tidbit about that at the bottom. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > I wonder how the grab bag works. My understanding of the cories is > > > > > > > that they like to school in groups of five/six or more. So if you get > > > > > > > one of each of several different species, will they school together? > > > > > > > Or does he send all the same species (doesn't sound like it)? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock > > > > > > >> once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their grab > > > > > > >> bag may be exciting enough for me ;) Some day I will get some of > > > > > > >> these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras pulcher). Then I will post > > > > > > >> pictures all over, LOL ;) You're right, he's very prompt in > > > > > > >> responding, in the time it took me to post this message and the first > > > > > > >> and read your reply, he had already replied back to me, LOL. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Amber > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> Hey Amber - > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. > > > > > > >>> Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from > > > > > > >>> people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these > > > > > > >>> fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> The > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but > > > > > > >>> efficient. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Lainey > > > > > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have > > > > > > >>>> watched their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed > > > > > > >>>> they > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >> offer a > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>>> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >> I was > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>>> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had > > > > > > >>>> happened to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were > > > > > > >>>> with them. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Amber > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> Thank You. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> ((((º> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > > > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > > > > > >> subject)" <- > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > > > > > >> post replies. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT > > > > > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original > > > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > > subject)" > > > > > > <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail > > > option where > > > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > > > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > > > which > > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > > > where > > > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45581	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question

It's not guaranteed but often, fish that *look* alike and are schooling/shoaling fish from the same Genus will group together. I've seen this happen with various tetras and I've read lots of forum threads where other fish species from the same Genus will also do it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag/A question Will different kinds of cories school together?. Harry --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 7:55 PM I was curious about this so I did a Google search to see if others had discussed what they received in their "grab bag" but it seems that this is a relatively new *item* that Corysrus.com is selling. The first appearance of "corydoras grab bag" showed up back in Sept. 2009 and were selling for $20.00 then, now $25.00 with FREE shipping. I didn't see any other forum posts about this except for this thread here. A search of Aquabid's forums found no hits either. Hmmmm.. it seems someone, somewhere would have posted what they received, the condition of the fish, etc. Make sure you read all the *warnings* about USPS Priority Mail (2-3 day), "as is", no guarantee on live arrival unless you pay for the higher priced shipping, etc. Not to say this isn't a good deal, just caveat emptor. Ooops.. I take some of the above back. I changed my Google key words and found this 2-page thread on PlanetCatfish. com from back in June 2009. http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26549 This guy got four fish in his grab bag but it seems they shoaled OK with his existing two fish so that worked out for him. I didn't read page two of the thread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag I was wondering the same thing myself. The description says: Well now is your chance to get the species you want without the need for spending a lot of $$$ ! Purchasing a grab bag may get you a single species, a few of one species and another, or a little of this and a little of that ! Grab bags are at our discretion as to what you will receive according to what we have on hand at the time. If you order more than one obviously they will send you more Cory's, they post a little tidbit about that at the bottom. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I wonder how the grab bag works. My understanding of the cories is > that they like to school in groups of five/six or more. So if you get > one of each of several different species, will they school together? > Or does he send all the same species (doesn't sound like it)? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Well it turns out that the specific Cory that I want is only in stock >> once every 3-5 years (LOL, go figure for me). But perhaps their grab >> bag may be exciting enough for me ;) Some day I will get some of >> these cory's (5-3 also called coryadoras pulcher). Then I will post >> pictures all over, LOL ;) You're right, he's very prompt in >> responding, in the time it took me to post this message and the first >> and read your reply, he had already replied back to me, LOL. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Hey Amber - >>> >>> I ordered five corydoras agassizii from them about six months ago. >>> Not the grab bag though. There were no problems. I have ordered from >>> people with really good reputations and had problems, but with these >>> fish, they did well from the start and are still doing very well. >>> >> The >> >>> guy who owns it was prompt in responding. Not warm and fuzzy but >>> efficient. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com >>> >>> On Jan 10, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> So has any one out there ordered fish from Corysrus.com? I have >>>> watched their site for about a year now off and on, and I noticed >>>> they >>>> >> offer a >> >>>> "Cory grab bag" which is based on their current stock of course. >>>> >> I was >> >>>> considering it, but wanted to hear if anyone else out there had >>>> happened to get one of their "grab bags" and how happy they were >>>> with them. >>>> >>>> Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45582	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question

Is this Harry Reid? Sorry.. couldn't resist! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag/A question Oh, so it depends whether the cory is prejudice or not. Harry --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag/A question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 10:32 PM Typically if they look similar they will school together, but it just depends on the Cory's pretty much. Some do, some don't. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Will different kinds of cories school together?. > > Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

I didn't realize that Max let y'all live there after the festival was over. ;-) http://www.yasgurroad.com/history.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Lenny, For several years I lived in an old farmhouse with a bunch of guys, (and women passing through <g>), where the heat was set for the lowest temperature available on the thermostat. We would go through about a half tank of oil a New England winter. We used a wood stove to keep the place warm. Occasionally the fire would effectively go out (i.e. not enough to complete die, but enough not to provide heat) and once in a while it would go out. I had a heated waterbed, so it never was bad until I had to get up on a cold morning <g>, when no one was around or awake in the middle of the night to feed the fire. Yet, we did keep several tanks at various places in the house. However, we would need to teach people that the fish in a common area of the house did not like White Russians <g>.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta How cold does it get in your non-heated house? Even without heat, the air temp at the top of a room would be noticeably warmer than the floor temp. Maybe you need to put a hydraulic lift under your bed so you can raise/lower it to find a comfortable room temp. ;-) I think this would work for you. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/product-review-harbor-freight-hydraulic-sci ssor-lift/ Or for the Tim Allen effect... http://www.andrewcasteel.net/skybed/ (MORE POWER!!! ARGH, ARGH!!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Hi Lenny, I do that in my fishroom with my linear air pumps. Winter time I move them to the top shelf in the fish room, about 6 feet off the floor and in summer they go right on the concrete floor. In my case the little airpump for the Betta would not do anything being elevated as the house is not heated at all unless I am home. My fishroom is the warmest room in the house. This winter on several occasions I have thought about dragging my sleeping bag out to the fishroom and sleeping there. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 5:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Mike said: "I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon Betta tank but I could not accommodate a heater and it has been too cold lately." ......... Something that I've theorized in the past, but have never actually done the experiment to test my theory, would be raising or lowering the height of the air pump as a way of heating/cooling a tank. We all know... or should know... that hot air rises so the air near the ceiling of a room is going to be noticeably warmer than the air at the floor of a room. This can be used with air pumps to partially heat/cool a small tank that is kept at mid-height in a room. If you want the water warmer, raise the air pump to up near the ceiling. If you want the water cooler, lower the air pump down to the floor. Of course, if you have baseboard heating, this would have to be considered when putting the air pump on the floor. Same with an air pump near the ceiling... you don't want the central air/heat blowing right on the air pump. In theory, this should help to slightly raise or lower the temperature of a non-heated tank so that it differs from the mid-height ambient room temperature. Monitor your tank's temperature when using this method to be sure things do not change too much, too fast. Another filter that works in small tanks and is quiet is the Hagen Elite Stingray filters that sit in the bottom of a tank. Other small internal filters would also work and be quiet and from all I've read, internal filters will also help heat up a small tank since the motor's heat is dissipated into the water. Here's an Elite 5 (for up to 5G tanks) on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280397559170&rvr_id=& crlp =1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=1afaf6921260a0aad1f631f6ff3d6606&itemid=280 397 559170&ff4=263602_263622 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Regarding air pumps and efforts to quiet them down. I placed a small air pump in my dining area and ran a long airline into the bedroom. I hear nothing but the bubbles. I never spend any time in the dining area so the pump making noise in that room does not bother me. I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon betta tank but I could not accomodate a heater and it has been too cold lately. So the angry blue and mustard betta is now in a community tank acting upset as usual :) If your local fish store does not have the sponge filters as Steve mentioned, check out ebay. There are some fairly inexpensive ones for sale on there lately. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 4:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Lainey, What you probably should have done, and may still want to do, is to use a sponge filter in that tank. Sponge filters come in many sizes and are just a sponge material with a couple of tubes, one to deliver air and the other to pull water through the sponge driven by the air. You would want to set a relatively slow flow rate, as judged by the number of bubbles per a given time period. Remember, bettas come from waters that move slowly, if at all, so, we would want to recreate that, as much s possible, especially for the long finned varieties available today. The drawback is that it probably would not be any quieter than what you have now, because the air pump would be of the vibrator kind, however, the advantage is that you could make efforts quiet the noise in several different ways. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45584	From: harry perry	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Cory grab bag/A question/Lenny

Good one. Harry --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag/A question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 10:46 PM   Is this Harry Reid? Sorry.. couldn't resist! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:35 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag/A question Oh, so it depends whether the cory is prejudice or not. Harry --- On Sun, 1/10/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cory grab bag/A question To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 10:32 PM Typically if they look similar they will school together, but it just depends on the Cory's pretty much. Some do, some don't. Amber harry perry wrote: > > > Will different kinds of cories school together?. > > Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45585	From: Lisa	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: The tank move is looming over me now

I think I'm going to be moving my 22 this weekend. (still five days to go) So, I will need Bucket with air tight lids to put my existing water in. Newspaper to keep the plants moist. And a container of sorts to put all the plastic décor in, Towels for padding in the car And bags for the fish if the bucket don't work. The gravel is the filter medium as I have an U/G filter, so there will be the minimum amount of water left in the bottom of the tank to keep the substrate wet.(god forbid that's not too much weight to cause any cracks!) Now. I have to bring the tank downstairs. Any ideas on how to do this safely? The stairs are mostly straight, but there is a bend at the bottom which would concern me. My plan is to save as much water as I can, so that the water change is a gradual weekly process. Not a large body of new water. To reduce the stress.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45586	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

Wow... y'all really did live there after the festival. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodstock_Festival#The_festival (last paragraph in this section) "After the concert, Max Yasgur, who owned the site of the event, saw it as a victory of peace and love. He spoke of how nearly half a million people filled with possibilities of disaster, riot, looting, and catastrophe spent the three days with music and peace on their minds. He states that "if we join them, we can turn those adversities that are the problems of America today into a hope for a brighter and more peaceful future..." He was so happy, he even let \\Steve// and several of his friends live in the old farmhouse for a while.[4]" I'm impressed \\Steve//! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:53 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I didn't realize that Max let y'all live there after the festival was over. ;-) http://www.yasgurroad.com/history.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Lenny, For several years I lived in an old farmhouse with a bunch of guys, (and women passing through <g>), where the heat was set for the lowest temperature available on the thermostat. We would go through about a half tank of oil a New England winter. We used a wood stove to keep the place warm. Occasionally the fire would effectively go out (i.e. not enough to complete die, but enough not to provide heat) and once in a while it would go out. I had a heated waterbed, so it never was bad until I had to get up on a cold morning <g>, when no one was around or awake in the middle of the night to feed the fire. Yet, we did keep several tanks at various places in the house. However, we would need to teach people that the fish in a common area of the house did not like White Russians <g>.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta How cold does it get in your non-heated house? Even without heat, the air temp at the top of a room would be noticeably warmer than the floor temp. Maybe you need to put a hydraulic lift under your bed so you can raise/lower it to find a comfortable room temp. ;-) I think this would work for you. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/product-review-harbor-freight-hydraulic-sci ssor-lift/ Or for the Tim Allen effect... http://www.andrewcasteel.net/skybed/ (MORE POWER!!! ARGH, ARGH!!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Hi Lenny, I do that in my fishroom with my linear air pumps. Winter time I move them to the top shelf in the fish room, about 6 feet off the floor and in summer they go right on the concrete floor. In my case the little airpump for the Betta would not do anything being elevated as the house is not heated at all unless I am home. My fishroom is the warmest room in the house. This winter on several occasions I have thought about dragging my sleeping bag out to the fishroom and sleeping there. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 5:26 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Mike said: "I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon Betta tank but I could not accommodate a heater and it has been too cold lately." ......... Something that I've theorized in the past, but have never actually done the experiment to test my theory, would be raising or lowering the height of the air pump as a way of heating/cooling a tank. We all know... or should know... that hot air rises so the air near the ceiling of a room is going to be noticeably warmer than the air at the floor of a room. This can be used with air pumps to partially heat/cool a small tank that is kept at mid-height in a room. If you want the water warmer, raise the air pump to up near the ceiling. If you want the water cooler, lower the air pump down to the floor. Of course, if you have baseboard heating, this would have to be considered when putting the air pump on the floor. Same with an air pump near the ceiling... you don't want the central air/heat blowing right on the air pump. In theory, this should help to slightly raise or lower the temperature of a non-heated tank so that it differs from the mid-height ambient room temperature. Monitor your tank's temperature when using this method to be sure things do not change too much, too fast. Another filter that works in small tanks and is quiet is the Hagen Elite Stingray filters that sit in the bottom of a tank. Other small internal filters would also work and be quiet and from all I've read, internal filters will also help heat up a small tank since the motor's heat is dissipated into the water. Here's an Elite 5 (for up to 5G tanks) on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280397559170&rvr_id=& crlp =1_263602_263622&UA=WXI7&GUID=1afaf6921260a0aad1f631f6ff3d6606&itemid=280 397 559170&ff4=263602_263622 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Regarding air pumps and efforts to quiet them down. I placed a small air pump in my dining area and ran a long airline into the bedroom. I hear nothing but the bubbles. I never spend any time in the dining area so the pump making noise in that room does not bother me. I also had a small sponger filter in my two gallon betta tank but I could not accomodate a heater and it has been too cold lately. So the angry blue and mustard betta is now in a community tank acting upset as usual :) If your local fish store does not have the sponge filters as Steve mentioned, check out ebay. There are some fairly inexpensive ones for sale on there lately. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 4:51 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Lainey, What you probably should have done, and may still want to do, is to use a sponge filter in that tank. Sponge filters come in many sizes and are just a sponge material with a couple of tubes, one to deliver air and the other to pull water through the sponge driven by the air. You would want to set a relatively slow flow rate, as judged by the number of bubbles per a given time period. Remember, bettas come from waters that move slowly, if at all, so, we would want to recreate that, as much s possible, especially for the long finned varieties available today. The drawback is that it probably would not be any quieter than what you have now, because the air pump would be of the vibrator kind, however, the advantage is that you could make efforts quiet the noise in several different ways. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta I have a male betta in a five gallon planted tank, no other fish, and the tank is on my desk. I just put a red sea nano filter on the tank, as I was getting tired of doing WC every other day. The hum of the filter is driving me crazy, so I am wondering if I might be able to run the filter only at night when I am not likely to be sitting at my desk. Is there some reason not to do this? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45587	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

Ohhhhhhhhhh Lenny! I already have quite the reputation with my fish club friends anyway. A hydraulic lift bed would make me approach legend status =) The burning Man pics are out there if you look(Mr. Private Detective :) Ikea sells a round bed anyway, just looking for a powered lazy susan as we speak. If I bought a lift I would probably end up putting it under one of my old Mopars anyway. Um...fish content...I bought the most gorgeous Neolamprologus Leleupi from a friend of mine last night at the club auction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKj4IUPAE5k -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 6:30 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   How cold does it get in your non-heated house? Even without heat, the air temp at the top of a room would be noticeably warmer than the floor temp. Maybe you need to put a hydraulic lift under your bed so you can raise/lower it to find a comfortable room temp. ;-) I think this would work for you. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/product-review-harbor-freight-hydraulic-sci ssor-lift/ Or for the Tim Allen effect... http://www.andrewcasteel.net/skybed/ (MORE POWER!!! ARGH, ARGH!!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Hi Lenny, I do that in my fishroom with my linear air pumps. Winter time I move them to the top shelf in the fish room, about 6 feet off the floor and in summer they go right on the concrete floor. In my case the little airpump for the Betta would not do anything being elevated as the house is not heated at all unless I am home. My fishroom is the warmest room in the house. This winter on several occasions I have thought about dragging my sleeping bag out to the fishroom and sleeping there. -Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

Would these pics be back in 2003-2004? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 11:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Ohhhhhhhhhh Lenny! I already have quite the reputation with my fish club friends anyway. A hydraulic lift bed would make me approach legend status =) The burning Man pics are out there if you look(Mr. Private Detective :) Ikea sells a round bed anyway, just looking for a powered lazy susan as we speak. If I bought a lift I would probably end up putting it under one of my old Mopars anyway. Um...fish content...I bought the most gorgeous Neolamprologus Leleupi from a friend of mine last night at the club auction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKj4IUPAE5k -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 6:30 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   How cold does it get in your non-heated house? Even without heat, the air temp at the top of a room would be noticeably warmer than the floor temp. Maybe you need to put a hydraulic lift under your bed so you can raise/lower it to find a comfortable room temp. ;-) I think this would work for you. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/product-review-harbor-freight-hydraulic-sci ssor-lift/ Or for the Tim Allen effect... http://www.andrewcasteel.net/skybed/ (MORE POWER!!! ARGH, ARGH!!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Hi Lenny, I do that in my fishroom with my linear air pumps. Winter time I move them to the top shelf in the fish room, about 6 feet off the floor and in summer they go right on the concrete floor. In my case the little airpump for the Betta would not do anything being elevated as the house is not heated at all unless I am home. My fishroom is the warmest room in the house. This winter on several occasions I have thought about dragging my sleeping bag out to the fishroom and sleeping there. -Mike ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45589	From: Nicole	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)?

Thanks so much for the info, everyone! ---Nicole --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I watched it I thought it was very good and I don't have cichlids. > > Harry > > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 9:48 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Yep, it's on YouTube, Part 1 of 10 starts at > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=9nrPdnzW6eo and they have an HQ version also. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. com > > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 6:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or > > cd)? > > > > Jewel of the Rift, National Geographic. > > You can probably watch it on You Tube. I liked it so much I bought a copy. > > But then I keep a lot of Cichlids. The movie does not use the names they > > should to describe fish and they tend to focus on the smallest fish in the > > lake and the biggest fish in the lake but they do show a fair spectrum of > > life considering the length of the movie. > > > > Oh, The "Emperor Cichlid" can be purchased as well as the shell dweller > > cichlid. My friend's shop happens to have both right now as well as some > > other shops in the country. > > > > -Mike > > > > ----Original Message----- > > From: Nicole <nikasmomma2001@ yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Thu, Jan 7, 2010 3:09 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Your Favorite Aquatic Resources (books, dvd, or cd)? > > > >   > > Are there any books or dvds that you really like about aquatic creatures? > > I'm working on a resource list. > > ---Nicole > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45590	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/10/2010
Subject: Re: The tank move is looming over me now

Do a daily PWC and gravel vacuum, if needed, to remove as much detritus as possible prior to the move. When you move the plants, you could just put them in the same bucket as the fish, at least that's what I've done. Do the plants first, then the fish so the plants won't be in the way when you're netting the fish. Then siphon out most of the water into other buckets until you have just enough water to cover the gravel in the tank. Slide a wide sturdy board (or 3/4" piece of plywood) under the tank, maneuvering/holding the tank by the base only, NOT by the top edges or corners of the tank, and screw in some 1"-2" brace boards around the four sides to keep the tank to the sturdy board to keep it from sliding on that sturdy board. Then your help can carry the much lighter tank, holding the board instead of the tank, down the stairs with the person going down first holding their end of the board up high to keep the tank mostly level. Your tank should not be so big that it won't negotiate the turn without a problem... unless you have a really narrow stairway. Set this board down in your car/truck as level as possible. Once you get to the new place, have the board/tank ready to go onto the stand and unscrew the brace boards and gently slide the tank into place only maneuvering the tank by the base of the tank. DO NOT push/pull on the top edges or corners of the tank. Once it's in place, add a bucket of the water with no plants/fish in it. Check for leaks. Add the plants and more water. Add fish and fire up the filter. Keep the room darkened and the lights off for the first day. Fish are less stressed when it's dark. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 10:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The tank move is looming over me now I think I'm going to be moving my 22 this weekend. (still five days to go) So, I will need Bucket with air tight lids to put my existing water in. Newspaper to keep the plants moist. And a container of sorts to put all the plastic décor in, Towels for padding in the car And bags for the fish if the bucket don't work. The gravel is the filter medium as I have an U/G filter, so there will be the minimum amount of water left in the bottom of the tank to keep the substrate wet.(god forbid that's not too much weight to cause any cracks!) Now. I have to bring the tank downstairs. Any ideas on how to do this safely? The stairs are mostly straight, but there is a bend at the bottom which would concern me. My plan is to save as much water as I can, so that the water change is a gradual weekly process. Not a large body of new water. To reduce the stress.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45591	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for betta

I wondered if you would pursue that:) No, Last year and the year before. Of course they are nothing compared to your Mardi Gras escapades I am sure. Even the Rocky Horror Picture show photos probably pale in comparison. Some day I will make it down that way and look you up. The angry betta boy has my Dicrossus Filamentosa hiding in the plants right now. Betta bullies cichlids, NICE. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 10:07 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   Would these pics be back in 2003-2004? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 11:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Ohhhhhhhhhh Lenny! I already have quite the reputation with my fish club friends anyway. A hydraulic lift bed would make me approach legend status =) The burning Man pics are out there if you look(Mr. Private Detective :) Ikea sells a round bed anyway, just looking for a powered lazy susan as we speak. If I bought a lift I would probably end up putting it under one of my old Mopars anyway. Um...fish content...I bought the most gorgeous Neolamprologus Leleupi from a friend of mine last night at the club auction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKj4IUPAE5k -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 6:30 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta   How cold does it get in your non-heated house? Even without heat, the air temp at the top of a room would be noticeably warmer than the floor temp. Maybe you need to put a hydraulic lift under your bed so you can raise/lower it to find a comfortable room temp. ;-) I think this would work for you. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/product-review-harbor-freight-hydraulic-sci ssor-lift/ Or for the Tim Allen effect... http://www.andrewcasteel.net/skybed/ (MORE POWER!!! ARGH, ARGH!!) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Filter for betta Hi Lenny, I do that in my fishroom with my linear air pumps. Winter time I move them to the top shelf in the fish room, about 6 feet off the floor and in summer they go right on the concrete floor. In my case the little airpump for the Betta would not do anything being elevated as the house is not heated at all unless I am home. My fishroom is the warmest room in the house. This winter on several occasions I have thought about dragging my sleeping bag out to the fishroom and sleeping there. -Mike ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45592	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: The tank move is looming over me now

I’d put the web substrate in a bucket and not move it in the tank. 22G? Should not need a hand cart for that, but a hand cart is the way to go for larger tanks. How far is your trip? I’d put the plants in the buckets, and fish too. I always transport fish in a bucket with an air stone in it (fill 1/3 full only). The battery pumps are like $9 and can rest on the lid of the bucket during the trip. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 11:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The tank move is looming over me now I think I'm going to be moving my 22 this weekend. (still five days to go) So, I will need Bucket with air tight lids to put my existing water in. Newspaper to keep the plants moist. And a container of sorts to put all the plastic décor in, Towels for padding in the car And bags for the fish if the bucket don't work. The gravel is the filter medium as I have an U/G filter, so there will be the minimum amount of water left in the bottom of the tank to keep the substrate wet.(god forbid that's not too much weight to cause any cracks!) Now. I have to bring the tank downstairs. Any ideas on how to do this safely? The stairs are mostly straight, but there is a bend at the bottom which would concern me. My plan is to save as much water as I can, so that the water change is a gradual weekly process. Not a large body of new water. To reduce the stress. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45593	From: young.souls	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Live Plants

Hi, Recently I added plants to my 125 gallon that was set for 7 years. I don't have experience, but I chose some easy species to start with. I didn't use any specific products for the plants growth. After 3 weeks I noticed small clear bubbles below the leaves of the Amazon Sword, otherwise the plants look totally normal in shape and color. What is this? Is it normal? Other plants are Cabomba, and several Moss balls. The tank is mainly for Clown Loaches, Kohli Loaches (I rarely see these that I doubt they exist anymore), Rosy Barbs, Rainbowfish, and Cherry Shrimp. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45594	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Cory's spawned

So speaking of Cory's this week ;) My albino aeneus cory's spawned sometime early this morning, and seem to still be spawning. They mostly laid eggs on the side of the tank (glass) but also on a few plants and of course a powerhead ;) I doubt they will last long with my mystery snails, but so far haven't been eaten, I'm surprised. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45595	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Live Plants

Noura, Provided that these bubbles are from the plant itself, and not another source, this can be taken as a positive. Other sources can be air from airstones being trapped under the leaf, air bubbles from the return stream of a filter, and/or out gassing of the water itself when it is supersaturated with one or more gasses. This type of reaction, if from the plants, is known as pearling. Pearling occurs when the plant(s) are producing enough oxygen so that it can no longer be absorbed into the water. If this is the case,, it means your plants are healthy and happy. The bubbles will likely disappear overnight as the oxygen in the water is used for respiration by the fish, the other critters in the tank, and the bacteria. It will most likely appear again when the water again becomes saturated with oxygen, likely in the afternoon (tank time). Pearling is normally seen all over the leaves of the plant, but with the crew you have there, they may be brushing the bubbles of as they pass by the plants, or come in direct contact with the plant \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of young.souls Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Live Plants Hi, Recently I added plants to my 125 gallon that was set for 7 years. I don't have experience, but I chose some easy species to start with. I didn't use any specific products for the plants growth. After 3 weeks I noticed small clear bubbles below the leaves of the Amazon Sword, otherwise the plants look totally normal in shape and color. What is this? Is it normal? Other plants are Cabomba, and several Moss balls. The tank is mainly for Clown Loaches, Kohli Loaches (I rarely see these that I doubt they exist anymore), Rosy Barbs, Rainbowfish, and Cherry Shrimp. Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45596	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. I got some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab bag of loaches, kinda. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263735 Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. I got some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab bag of loaches, kinda. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263735 Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45598	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting a song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping on my fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women in this town are slow ;) LOL. It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play the > "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My computer > speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web but I > happened to > have the volume up a little when I went to your win. Since he's offering > free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount didn't help you much > on this > one... but at least you still get that FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > bidding at > $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't found your BM > pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how they don't end up > torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > I got > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab bag of > loaches, kinda. > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263735 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263735> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45599	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting a song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping on my fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women in this town are slow ;) LOL. It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play > the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My > computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web but > I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount > didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that > FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't > found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how > they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > I got > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab > bag of loaches, kinda. > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > 35 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > 735> > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45600	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the fish are very rare as well and I have never seen them up on aquabid), I think I got a decent deal. I've been watching his auctions for about 6 months now and they sell fairly well, and are very popular. People watch and bid at the last 2 minutes ;) LOL. There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( I'm spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS Priority > Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must have gotten > your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting a > song > that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping on my fed ex > account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women in this town are > slow > ;) LOL. > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box > from NY > to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not including > that 5 > dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play > > the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My > > computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web but > > I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount > > didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that > > FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't > > found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how > > they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > > I got > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab > > bag of loaches, kinda. > > > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637> > > 35 > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> > > 735> > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45601	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

You still get your annual dividend check in June/July... right? http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm Our crooked politicians, from Huey P. Long to Edwin Edwards to Dollar-Bill Jefferson, et al, have been stealing our State's oil money for decades down here... and LA is still flat broke where we should have money coming out the wazoo. But... slowly but surely, the crooks are all going to the BIG HOUSE... and I don't mean Heaven. ;-) I'm sure they all love their new boyfriends... oops.. I meant cell-mates, usually named Bubba or Tiny. LOL I'd trade our gang of crooks for almost any other State's gang of crooks... well, maybe not the west coast... or the north east... and definitely not Illinois. They might even beat out LA for the most crooked politicians. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the fish are very rare as well and I have never seen them up on aquabid), I think I got a decent deal. I've been watching his auctions for about 6 months now and they sell fairly well, and are very popular. People watch and bid at the last 2 minutes ;) LOL. There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( I'm spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS > Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must > have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting a > song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping on my > fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women in this > town are slow > ;) LOL. > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box > from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not > including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play > > the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My > > computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web > > but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount > > didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that > > FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't > > found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how > > they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > > I got > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab > > bag of loaches, kinda. > > > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > 7> > > 35 > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > 735> > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45602	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/11/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

Yes, we get that in the fall. I'm hoping that the seller will throw in some free fish since I'm paying for the shipping ;) LOL. Will see when I open the box. I also ordered a couple more Hydor Koralia's, this time number 3's. I want a little more circulation in my 125 gallon tank. I love these little powerheads, I cover them in mesh so they are fry/snail safe, just in case. I have to rinse them off periodically just like the filter intakes, but they work great for creating a current in the tank. I bought a few of the lower powered models this fall and they ended up in the 55 gallon tank, LOL. So this time around I'm getting them for the 125 gallon tank. They're not quite as powerful as you'd think by the rating on them, so if anyone gets them get the next size up just in case, you'll be glad you did. Also marinedepot.com is having a sale on these until the end of this month, models 1-4 I think. 20% off. http://www.marinedepot.com/Hydor_Koralia_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_UL_Fixed_Flow_Aquarium_Powerheads-Hydor_USA-HD19101-FIPHFF-vi.html Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You still get your annual dividend check in June/July... right? > http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm > <http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm> > > Our crooked politicians, from Huey P. Long to Edwin Edwards to Dollar-Bill > Jefferson, et al, have been stealing our State's oil money for decades > down > here... and LA is still flat broke where we should have money coming > out the > wazoo. But... slowly but surely, the crooks are all going to the BIG > HOUSE... and I don't mean Heaven. ;-) I'm sure they all love their new > boyfriends... oops.. I meant cell-mates, usually named Bubba or Tiny. LOL > I'd trade our gang of crooks for almost any other State's gang of > crooks... > well, maybe not the west coast... or the north east... and definitely not > Illinois. They might even beat out LA for the most crooked politicians. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the fish are > very rare as well and I have never seen them up on aquabid), I think I > got a > decent deal. I've been watching his auctions for about 6 months now > and they > sell fairly well, and are very popular. People watch and bid at the last 2 > minutes ;) LOL. > There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( I'm > spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS > > Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must > > have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting a > > song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping on my > > fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women in this > > town are slow > > ;) LOL. > > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box > > from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not > > including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play > > > the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My > > > computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web > > > but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. > > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount > > > didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that > > > FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't > > > found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how > > > they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > > > I got > > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab > > > bag of loaches, kinda. > > > > > > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637> > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> > > 7> > > > 35 > > > > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> > > > > > > 735> > > > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45603	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

Cheap Skate! Hey wait a minute I resemble that remark! Yes Amber has richer blood than I. Several of the sellers put back ground music on their auctions. LotsOofish tends to put up some good music. I did not continue bidding on items as my Cichlid club had their monthly auction on Saturday and I picked up some red cherry shrimp, blue shrimp, and some gorgeous Leleupi! I also picked up six dicrossus filamentosa and a female long fin albino ancistrus from my friend's shop. So I did spend a decent portion of my fish budget for the month. If you friend me on facebook the pics are right there :) Burning Man is a lot of fun. I have not had one political discussion while up there. Mike :) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:35 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL   Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. I got some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab bag of loaches, kinda. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263735 Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45604	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

Mike said: "my Cichlid club had their monthly auction on Saturday and I picked up some red cherry shrimp, blue shrimp, and some gorgeous Leleupi! I also picked up six dicrossus filamentosa and a female long fin albino ancistrus from my friend's shop." All I did was pick up a gorgeous blonde on Saturday. My wing-man got the long finned albino chick! ;-) The "Deenerz" that showed up at the top of the list with Google was on MySpace and it was a good looking 18 y.o. girl from Alabama... is that your TV persona now that you've been out there on the left coast for so long? I tried to friend her/you, thinking it might be your TV persona, but she replied with a big EWWWWWWWW... UR OLD!!!! LOL Not really.. I didn't really try to friend her as I rarely try to friend anybody on social networks and I really didn't think you'd make a good looking *girl* anyhow... LOL That said, a bunch of my younger cousins recently found my FB profile and started adding me and now their parents have added me, so I had to acquiesce. I made it several years with no friends and now I have five. UGH!!! Hopefully, they won't start sending me all kinds of messages and/or posting on my wall. I really don't have time for social networks. LOL I mainly have a MS and FB profile for the purposes of checking out family photos, etc., when someone has their profile or albums closed to the public. Other than that, they're too much of a pain. Give me email, Yahoo Messenger and/or Skype and that's enough. Oh yeah.. I don't text message on my phone either... that's too much work too... especially folks that try to hold a conversation via text messaging. God.. just dial the number! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL Cheap Skate! Hey wait a minute I resemble that remark! Yes Amber has richer blood than I. Several of the sellers put back ground music on their auctions. LotsOofish tends to put up some good music. I did not continue bidding on items as my Cichlid club had their monthly auction on Saturday and I picked up some red cherry shrimp, blue shrimp, and some gorgeous Leleupi! I also picked up six dicrossus filamentosa and a female long fin albino ancistrus from my friend's shop. So I did spend a decent portion of my fish budget for the month. If you friend me on facebook the pics are right there :) Burning Man is a lot of fun. I have not had one political discussion while up there. Mike :) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 8:35 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL   Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. I got some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab bag of loaches, kinda. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263735 Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45605	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

After having live in Louisana for 8 years, I am still trying to figure out who is worse.you guys or the Chicago area political machine hehehe. I have to laugh when I hear people claim that Obama is guilty of Chicago style politics. If that were the case, he would have brought Traitor Joe and the Blue dogs out behind the capitol building and beat the crap out of them until they were more cooperative and if that didn't work, he would have had Rahm take them for a walk along the Potomac to be fitted for a pair of cement shoes. That would be Chicago politics. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL You still get your annual dividend check in June/July... right? http://www.apfc. <http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm> org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm Our crooked politicians, from Huey P. Long to Edwin Edwards to Dollar-Bill Jefferson, et al, have been stealing our State's oil money for decades down here... and LA is still flat broke where we should have money coming out the wazoo. But... slowly but surely, the crooks are all going to the BIG HOUSE... and I don't mean Heaven. ;-) I'm sure they all love their new boyfriends... oops.. I meant cell-mates, usually named Bubba or Tiny. LOL I'd trade our gang of crooks for almost any other State's gang of crooks... well, maybe not the west coast... or the north east... and definitely not Illinois. They might even beat out LA for the most crooked politicians. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the fish are very rare as well and I have never seen them up on aquabid), I think I got a decent deal. I've been watching his auctions for about 6 months now and they sell fairly well, and are very popular. People watch and bid at the last 2 minutes ;) LOL. There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( I'm spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS > Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must > have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting a > song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping on my > fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women in this > town are slow > ;) LOL. > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box > from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not > including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play > > the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My > > computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web > > but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount > > didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that > > FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't > > found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how > > they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > > I got > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab > > bag of loaches, kinda. > > > http://www.aquabid. <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637> com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > <http://www.aquabid. <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > 7> > > 35 > > > <http://www.aquabid. <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid. <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > 735> > > > > Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45606	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

That's old school Chicago politics... effective, but kind of messy. Nowadays, they just bribe their opponents... oops.. I meant auction off their votes... Blago and ObamaCare should clearly show this is their new way. They learned this from LA's own, Edwin Edwards and Dollar-Bill Jefferson. ;-) And the good thing... all this bribery and money exchanging is on topic since the topic was about an auction. LOL Fish! Just in case! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL After having live in Louisana for 8 years, I am still trying to figure out who is worse.you guys or the Chicago area political machine hehehe. I have to laugh when I hear people claim that Obama is guilty of Chicago style politics. If that were the case, he would have brought Traitor Joe and the Blue dogs out behind the capitol building and beat the crap out of them until they were more cooperative and if that didn't work, he would have had Rahm take them for a walk along the Potomac to be fitted for a pair of cement shoes. That would be Chicago politics. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL You still get your annual dividend check in June/July... right? http://www.apfc. <http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm> org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm Our crooked politicians, from Huey P. Long to Edwin Edwards to Dollar-Bill Jefferson, et al, have been stealing our State's oil money for decades down here... and LA is still flat broke where we should have money coming out the wazoo. But... slowly but surely, the crooks are all going to the BIG HOUSE... and I don't mean Heaven. ;-) I'm sure they all love their new boyfriends... oops.. I meant cell-mates, usually named Bubba or Tiny. LOL I'd trade our gang of crooks for almost any other State's gang of crooks... well, maybe not the west coast... or the north east... and definitely not Illinois. They might even beat out LA for the most crooked politicians. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the fish are very rare as well and I have never seen them up on aquabid), I think I got a decent deal. I've been watching his auctions for about 6 months now and they sell fairly well, and are very popular. People watch and bid at the last 2 minutes ;) LOL. There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( I'm spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS > Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must > have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting a > song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping on my > fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women in this > town are slow > ;) LOL. > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box > from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not > including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play > > the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My > > computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web > > but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount > > didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that > > FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't > > found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how > > they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > > I got > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab > > bag of loaches, kinda. > > > http://www.aquabid. <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637> com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > <http://www.aquabid. <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > 7> > > 35 > > > <http://www.aquabid. <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid. <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > 735> > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45607	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

Here in the Poconos, the entire Luzerne County legislature has been arrested, one by one, for corruption. It's almost amusing. And where the heck are you guys putting all these new fishies??? You'd be horrified to know how overstocked (not a word, Lenny!!!) my 55g is! ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > That's old school Chicago politics... effective, but kind of messy. > Nowadays, they just bribe their opponents... oops.. I meant auction off > their votes... Blago and ObamaCare should clearly show this is their new > way. They learned this from LA's own, Edwin Edwards and Dollar-Bill > Jefferson. ;-) > > And the good thing... all this bribery and money exchanging is on topic > since the topic was about an auction. LOL > > Fish! Just in case! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > After having live in Louisana for 8 years, I am still trying to figure out > who is worse.you guys or the Chicago area political machine hehehe. I have > to laugh when I hear people claim that Obama is guilty of Chicago style > politics. If that were the case, he would have brought Traitor Joe and the > Blue dogs out behind the capitol building and beat the crap out of them > until they were more cooperative and if that didn't work, he would have had > Rahm take them for a walk along the Potomac to be fitted for a pair of > cement shoes. That would be Chicago politics. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > You still get your annual dividend check in June/July... right? > http://www.apfc. <http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm> > org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm > > Our crooked politicians, from Huey P. Long to Edwin Edwards to Dollar-Bill > Jefferson, et al, have been stealing our State's oil money for decades down > here... and LA is still flat broke where we should have money coming out the > wazoo. But... slowly but surely, the crooks are all going to the BIG > HOUSE... and I don't mean Heaven. ;-) I'm sure they all love their new > boyfriends... oops.. I meant cell-mates, usually named Bubba or Tiny. LOL > I'd trade our gang of crooks for almost any other State's gang of crooks... > well, maybe not the west coast... or the north east... and definitely not > Illinois. They might even beat out LA for the most crooked politicians. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the fish are > very rare as well and I have never seen them up on aquabid), I think I got a > decent deal. I've been watching his auctions for about 6 months now and they > sell fairly well, and are very popular. People watch and bid at the last 2 > minutes ;) LOL. > There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( I'm > spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS > > Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must > > have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to > any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting a > > song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping on my > > fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women in this > > town are slow > > ;) LOL. > > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box > > from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not > > including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always play > > > the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My > > > computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web > > > but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. > > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount > > > didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that > > > FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still haven't > > > found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how > > > they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > > > I got > > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab > > > bag of loaches, kinda. > > > > > http://www.aquabid. > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637> > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > > <http://www.aquabid. > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > 7> > > > 35 > > > > > <http://www.aquabid. > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > <http://www.aquabid. > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263> > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > > > 735> > > > > > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45608	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

I have a lightly stocked 125 gallon tank that's calling for guppy's from my 55 gallon ;) LOL. I sadly lost some of my fish earlier in the fall last year, I was bad about my filter cleaning and it went too long, I think it fouled the water, that's why I lost my rams and all of my adult hillstream loaches :( I was really mad at myself when it happened, but past is past now, learned from that mistake. I've gotten myself onto a better filter cleaning schedule, and I think I'm going to retire the eheim filter and put in a powerhead in the 125 gallon tank instead for water movement. Either that or I need to see if I can order the missing seal so the darn thing will stop leaking water all over the place. Eheim parts are so darn expensive, I could save up and get another rena xp 4 and feel better about the situation, LOL. My 55 gallon is a bit overstocked due to the guppy's and mystery snails, to compensate I've been doing PWC's every couple of days and cleaning the filter about every 5 days, which is what I think caused my cory's to spawn. Most of the snails will be gone soon as nearly all of them are "good eaten" size ;) LOL. I haven't quite decided if I want to put most of my loaches in my 55 gallon, and just put the snail eating ones in the 125 gallon with all the MTS and ramshorn snails, there are only a few pond/bladder snails left in that tank for some reason. The cory eggs are surprisingly still on the glass/sides of my 55 gallon as well, guess they're too tough to eat, or maybe they don't taste good, LOL. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Here in the Poconos, the entire Luzerne County legislature has been > arrested, one by one, for corruption. It's almost amusing. > > And where the heck are you guys putting all these new fishies??? > > You'd be horrified to know how overstocked (not a word, Lenny!!!) my > 55g is! > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > That's old school Chicago politics... effective, but kind of messy. > > Nowadays, they just bribe their opponents... oops.. I meant auction off > > their votes... Blago and ObamaCare should clearly show this is their new > > way. They learned this from LA's own, Edwin Edwards and Dollar-Bill > > Jefferson. ;-) > > > > And the good thing... all this bribery and money exchanging is on topic > > since the topic was about an auction. LOL > > > > Fish! Just in case! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > After having live in Louisana for 8 years, I am still trying to > figure out > > who is worse.you guys or the Chicago area political machine hehehe. > I have > > to laugh when I hear people claim that Obama is guilty of Chicago style > > politics. If that were the case, he would have brought Traitor Joe > and the > > Blue dogs out behind the capitol building and beat the crap out of them > > until they were more cooperative and if that didn't work, he would > have had > > Rahm take them for a walk along the Potomac to be fitted for a pair of > > cement shoes. That would be Chicago politics. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > You still get your annual dividend check in June/July... right? > > http://www.apfc. > <http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm > <http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm>> > > org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm > > > > Our crooked politicians, from Huey P. Long to Edwin Edwards to > Dollar-Bill > > Jefferson, et al, have been stealing our State's oil money for > decades down > > here... and LA is still flat broke where we should have money coming > out the > > wazoo. But... slowly but surely, the crooks are all going to the BIG > > HOUSE... and I don't mean Heaven. ;-) I'm sure they all love their new > > boyfriends... oops.. I meant cell-mates, usually named Bubba or > Tiny. LOL > > I'd trade our gang of crooks for almost any other State's gang of > crooks... > > well, maybe not the west coast... or the north east... and > definitely not > > Illinois. They might even beat out LA for the most crooked politicians. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:54 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the > fish are > > very rare as well and I have never seen them up on aquabid), I think > I got a > > decent deal. I've been watching his auctions for about 6 months now > and they > > sell fairly well, and are very popular. People watch and bid at the > last 2 > > minutes ;) LOL. > > There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( I'm > > spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS > > > Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must > > > have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably > putting a > > > song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping > on my > > > fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women in this > > > town are slow > > > ;) LOL. > > > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box > > > from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not > > > including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always > play > > > > the "Give it away now" music in the background of won auctions? My > > > > computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm surfing the web > > > > but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to > your win. > > > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX discount > > > > didn't help you much on this one... but at least you still get that > > > > FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still > haven't > > > > found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to figure out how > > > > they don't end up torching you at one of these lib-fests. ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on > wednesday. > > > > I got > > > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a grab > > > > bag of loaches, kinda. > > > > > > > http://www.aquabid. > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637>> > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > > > <http://www.aquabid. > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263>> > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > 7> > > > > 35 > > > > > > > <http://www.aquabid. > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263>> > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > <http://www.aquabid. > > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263>> > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > > > > > 735> > > > > > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45609	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

When I was younger, during Jimmy Carter's debacle, I use to jokingly say that I wished the Soviet Union would just NUKE Washington, D.C. to clean house with one big bang and then we could start over and not repeat the same mistakes that we've made with re-electing the same old/young crooks over and over... oh yeah.. and demand a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution... and no income tax! I guess nowadays, I have to wish for China to do it since I don't think a shoe bomber or underwear bomber will be able to pull off the task! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL Here in the Poconos, the entire Luzerne County legislature has been arrested, one by one, for corruption. It's almost amusing. And where the heck are you guys putting all these new fishies??? You'd be horrified to know how overstocked (not a word, Lenny!!!) my 55g is! ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > That's old school Chicago politics... effective, but kind of messy. > Nowadays, they just bribe their opponents... oops.. I meant auction > off their votes... Blago and ObamaCare should clearly show this is > their new way. They learned this from LA's own, Edwin Edwards and > Dollar-Bill Jefferson. ;-) > > And the good thing... all this bribery and money exchanging is on > topic since the topic was about an auction. LOL > > Fish! Just in case! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > After having live in Louisana for 8 years, I am still trying to figure > out who is worse.you guys or the Chicago area political machine > hehehe. I have to laugh when I hear people claim that Obama is guilty > of Chicago style politics. If that were the case, he would have > brought Traitor Joe and the Blue dogs out behind the capitol building > and beat the crap out of them until they were more cooperative and if > that didn't work, he would have had Rahm take them for a walk along > the Potomac to be fitted for a pair of cement shoes. That would be Chicago politics. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > You still get your annual dividend check in June/July... right? > http://www.apfc. > <http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm> > org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm > > Our crooked politicians, from Huey P. Long to Edwin Edwards to > Dollar-Bill Jefferson, et al, have been stealing our State's oil money > for decades down here... and LA is still flat broke where we should > have money coming out the wazoo. But... slowly but surely, the crooks > are all going to the BIG HOUSE... and I don't mean Heaven. ;-) I'm > sure they all love their new boyfriends... oops.. I meant cell-mates, > usually named Bubba or Tiny. LOL I'd trade our gang of crooks for almost any other State's gang of crooks... > well, maybe not the west coast... or the north east... and definitely > not Illinois. They might even beat out LA for the most crooked politicians. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the fish > are very rare as well and I have never seen them up on aquabid), I > think I got a decent deal. I've been watching his auctions for about 6 > months now and they sell fairly well, and are very popular. People > watch and bid at the last 2 minutes ;) LOL. > There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( I'm > spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS > > Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must > > have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to > any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting > > a song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping > > on my fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women > > in this town are slow > > ;) LOL. > > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box > > from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not > > including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always > > > play the "Give it away now" music in the background of won > > > auctions? My computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm > > > surfing the web but I happened to have the volume up a little when I went to your win. > > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX > > > discount didn't help you much on this one... but at least you > > > still get that FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still > > > haven't found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to > > > figure out how they don't end up torching you at one of these > > > lib-fests. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > > > I got > > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a > > > grab bag of loaches, kinda. > > > > > http://www.aquabid. > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > 7> > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > > <http://www.aquabid. > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > 7> > > > 35 > > > > > <http://www.aquabid. > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > <http://www.aquabid. > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > > > 735> > > > > > > Amber > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45610	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

As much as we'd love to blame the politicians, *WE THE PEOPLE* are the ones to blame for re-electing them. The "career politicians" irritate me the most. There are those who have been in office for decades upon decades. And there are a few members of Congress who are well into their 80s and 90s. Shame on the voting public for re-electing them. Also consider who goes into politics -- those who don't, won't or can't hold "real" jobs. And who gets elected? The biggest bullsh!tters of the bunch. Who loses? The unattractive, nerdy, poor speaker who knows his stuff inside-and-out. And finally, don't forget that politics is a VERY dirty business. By the time anyone gets into a position where they could actually do something, they are so beholding to those who got him there that he can't actually accomplish anything. Stepping off my soapbox now... ~Kai Isn't FISH a much more pleasant topic??? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > When I was younger, during Jimmy Carter's debacle, I use to jokingly say > that I wished the Soviet Union would just NUKE Washington, D.C. to clean > house with one big bang and then we could start over and not repeat the same > mistakes that we've made with re-electing the same old/young crooks over and > over... oh yeah.. and demand a balanced budget amendment to the > Constitution... and no income tax! > > I guess nowadays, I have to wish for China to do it since I don't think a > shoe bomber or underwear bomber will be able to pull off the task! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > Here in the Poconos, the entire Luzerne County legislature has been > arrested, one by one, for corruption. It's almost amusing. > > And where the heck are you guys putting all these new fishies??? > > You'd be horrified to know how overstocked (not a word, Lenny!!!) my 55g is! > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > That's old school Chicago politics... effective, but kind of messy. > > Nowadays, they just bribe their opponents... oops.. I meant auction > > off their votes... Blago and ObamaCare should clearly show this is > > their new way. They learned this from LA's own, Edwin Edwards and > > Dollar-Bill Jefferson. ;-) > > > > And the good thing... all this bribery and money exchanging is on > > topic since the topic was about an auction. LOL > > > > Fish! Just in case! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > After having live in Louisana for 8 years, I am still trying to figure > > out who is worse.you guys or the Chicago area political machine > > hehehe. I have to laugh when I hear people claim that Obama is guilty > > of Chicago style politics. If that were the case, he would have > > brought Traitor Joe and the Blue dogs out behind the capitol building > > and beat the crap out of them until they were more cooperative and if > > that didn't work, he would have had Rahm take them for a walk along > > the Potomac to be fitted for a pair of cement shoes. That would be > Chicago politics. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > You still get your annual dividend check in June/July... right? > > http://www.apfc. > > <http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm> > > org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm > > > > Our crooked politicians, from Huey P. Long to Edwin Edwards to > > Dollar-Bill Jefferson, et al, have been stealing our State's oil money > > for decades down here... and LA is still flat broke where we should > > have money coming out the wazoo. But... slowly but surely, the crooks > > are all going to the BIG HOUSE... and I don't mean Heaven. ;-) I'm > > sure they all love their new boyfriends... oops.. I meant cell-mates, > > usually named Bubba or Tiny. LOL I'd trade our gang of crooks for almost > any other State's gang of crooks... > > well, maybe not the west coast... or the north east... and definitely > > not Illinois. They might even beat out LA for the most crooked > politicians. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:54 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the fish > > are very rare as well and I have never seen them up on aquabid), I > > think I got a decent deal. I've been watching his auctions for about 6 > > months now and they sell fairly well, and are very popular. People > > watch and bid at the last 2 minutes ;) LOL. > > There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( I'm > > spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS > > > Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You must > > > have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably putting > > > a song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually shipping > > > on my fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail men/women > > > in this town are slow > > > ;) LOL. > > > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb box > > > from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. That's not > > > including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always > > > > play the "Give it away now" music in the background of won > > > > auctions? My computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm > > > > surfing the web but I happened to have the volume up a little when I > went to your win. > > > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX > > > > discount didn't help you much on this one... but at least you > > > > still get that FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still > > > > haven't found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to > > > > figure out how they don't end up torching you at one of these > > > > lib-fests. ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > > > > I got > > > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a > > > > grab bag of loaches, kinda. > > > > > > > http://www.aquabid. > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > 7> > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > > > <http://www.aquabid. > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > 7> > > > > 35 > > > > > > > <http://www.aquabid. > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > <http://www.aquabid. > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > > > > > 735> > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

It's still perfectly OK to blame the crooks a/k/a politicians when they lie to us in order to get elected their first time and then, even the ones that might not have lied but then refuse to listen to us once they're in office. But yes, for the ones who keep getting re-elected, then it's the ignorant voters fault.... but we still do not deserve what they try to do to us. As far as unattractive (probably even BUTT-ugly... lol), nerdy and a poor speaker... Nancy Pelosi did get elected and re-elected... I won't go so far as her knowing her stuff though. ;-) I say we feed them all to the fishes. How's that for getting back on topic. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL As much as we'd love to blame the politicians, *WE THE PEOPLE* are the ones to blame for re-electing them. The "career politicians" irritate me the most. There are those who have been in office for decades upon decades. And there are a few members of Congress who are well into their 80s and 90s. Shame on the voting public for re-electing them. Also consider who goes into politics -- those who don't, won't or can't hold "real" jobs. And who gets elected? The biggest bullsh!tters of the bunch. Who loses? The unattractive, nerdy, poor speaker who knows his stuff inside-and-out. And finally, don't forget that politics is a VERY dirty business. By the time anyone gets into a position where they could actually do something, they are so beholding to those who got him there that he can't actually accomplish anything. Stepping off my soapbox now... ~Kai Isn't FISH a much more pleasant topic??? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > When I was younger, during Jimmy Carter's debacle, I use to jokingly > say that I wished the Soviet Union would just NUKE Washington, D.C. to > clean house with one big bang and then we could start over and not > repeat the same mistakes that we've made with re-electing the same > old/young crooks over and over... oh yeah.. and demand a balanced > budget amendment to the Constitution... and no income tax! > > I guess nowadays, I have to wish for China to do it since I don't > think a shoe bomber or underwear bomber will be able to pull off the > task! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > Here in the Poconos, the entire Luzerne County legislature has been > arrested, one by one, for corruption. It's almost amusing. > > And where the heck are you guys putting all these new fishies??? > > You'd be horrified to know how overstocked (not a word, Lenny!!!) my 55g is! > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > That's old school Chicago politics... effective, but kind of messy. > > Nowadays, they just bribe their opponents... oops.. I meant auction > > off their votes... Blago and ObamaCare should clearly show this is > > their new way. They learned this from LA's own, Edwin Edwards and > > Dollar-Bill Jefferson. ;-) > > > > And the good thing... all this bribery and money exchanging is on > > topic since the topic was about an auction. LOL > > > > Fish! Just in case! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Eric Roberts > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > After having live in Louisana for 8 years, I am still trying to > > figure out who is worse.you guys or the Chicago area political > > machine hehehe. I have to laugh when I hear people claim that Obama > > is guilty of Chicago style politics. If that were the case, he > > would have brought Traitor Joe and the Blue dogs out behind the > > capitol building and beat the crap out of them until they were more > > cooperative and if that didn't work, he would have had Rahm take > > them for a walk along the Potomac to be fitted for a pair of cement > > shoes. That would be > Chicago politics. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > You still get your annual dividend check in June/July... right? > > http://www.apfc. > > <http://www.apfc.org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm> > > org/home/Content/dividend/dividend.cfm > > > > Our crooked politicians, from Huey P. Long to Edwin Edwards to > > Dollar-Bill Jefferson, et al, have been stealing our State's oil > > money for decades down here... and LA is still flat broke where we > > should have money coming out the wazoo. But... slowly but surely, > > the crooks are all going to the BIG HOUSE... and I don't mean > > Heaven. ;-) I'm sure they all love their new boyfriends... oops.. I > > meant cell-mates, usually named Bubba or Tiny. LOL I'd trade our > > gang of crooks for almost > any other State's gang of crooks... > > well, maybe not the west coast... or the north east... and > > definitely not Illinois. They might even beat out LA for the most > > crooked > politicians. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > > Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:54 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > Considering most of those fish sell for 10 or more each (2 of the > > fish are very rare as well and I have never seen them up on > > aquabid), I think I got a decent deal. I've been watching his > > auctions for about 6 months now and they sell fairly well, and are > > very popular. People watch and bid at the last 2 minutes ;) LOL. > > There was only a bonus check in 2008, didn't get one this year. :( > > I'm spending my hard earned overtime, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > I thought he advertised free shipping? Or was that just with USPS > > > Priority Mail? Wow.. you're up to about nine bucks a fish. You > > > must have gotten your Sarah Palin Alaskan oil bonus check! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > blogspot.com > > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > (Links to > > any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > The seller has music on nearly all of his auctions, probably > > > putting a song that strikes his mood at the time ;) He's actually > > > shipping on my fed ex account anyways, as I prefer that way. Mail > > > men/women in this town are slow > > > ;) LOL. > > > It's only going to cost me just shy of 25 dollars to ship a 5lb > > > box from NY to Alaska btw, Shhh, don't tell everyone ;) LOL. > > > That's not including that 5 dollars he's sending in the box ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, you have rich blood. Congrats on the win! Do they always > > > > play the "Give it away now" music in the background of won > > > > auctions? My computer speakers are off 99% of the time when I'm > > > > surfing the web but I happened to have the volume up a little > > > > when I > went to your win. > > > > Since he's offering free shipping, I'm guessing your FEDEX > > > > discount didn't help you much on this one... but at least you > > > > still get that FIVE BUCKS!!! LOL > > > > > > > > I see "Deenerzz", presuming it's our own Mike "Deenerz", stopped > > > > bidding at $22.00... what a CHEAP SKATE!!! LOL Mike, I still > > > > haven't found your BM pics though... and I'm still trying to > > > > figure out how they don't end up torching you at one of these > > > > lib-fests. ;-) > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:16 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just to share what I just won ;) LOL > > > > > > > > So I just won an auction on aquabid, fish should be here on wednesday. > > > > I got > > > > some more loaches (one of my favorites), this one is kind of a > > > > grab bag of loaches, kinda. > > > > > > > http://www.aquabid. > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632 > > 63 > > 7> > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632637 > > > <http://www.aquabid. > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632 > > 63 > > > > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > 7> > > > > 35 > > > > > > > <http://www.aquabid. > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632 > > 63 > > > > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > <http://www.aquabid. > > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&12632 > > 63 > > > > > com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishl&1263263 > > > > > > > > 735> > > > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45612	From: johnd	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Old school power filter

Old school power filter: Does anyone remember the name of the power filters that used to power out though a tube and siphon makeup water though another tube?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45613	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Old school power filter

Hi John, Two come to mind right away. First the Supreme Dyna master and the old Aqualogy "Power" series. From these there were two models, the 300 (that's gallons per hour folks) and the 600 with the same notation. These were real work horse's that could really move water through filter media. Bill --- On Tue, 1/12/10, johnd <dumasjohnj@...> wrote: > From: johnd <dumasjohnj@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Old school power filter > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 7:52 PM > Old school power filter: > Does anyone remember the name of the power filters that > used to power out though a tube and siphon makeup water > though another tube? > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Old school power filter

"Power filters" are generally also known as HOB's (Hang On Back) filters. Is this the kind you are talking about? Most HOB's that I've seen usually have much too small of a motor to do this kind of siphoning. I have seen canister filters that have enough head pressure to do this but not an HOB. I was curious so I decided to do a little Googling and did find this listed on a reputable website but this is also more of a canister filter, not a "power filter" (HOB type). http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/CleaningMachine.html And several videos about it and of it in action... http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/CleanMachinevideo.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johnd Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Old school power filter Old school power filter: Does anyone remember the name of the power filters that used to power out though a tube and siphon makeup water though another tube?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45615	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Not so, Jello fish food

Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until this week. I made it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice gooey mixture, then put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in the normal amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into the mixture, added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 minutes and put it into the fridge to solidify. Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new gelatin (5 more packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm mixture/gelatin, and heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in case it didn't get warm enough last time. Well it's still not solidifying :( I've done this before, the exact same way the only difference this time is that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that wouldn't make my jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds silly but I just cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very frustrating, I don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a waste of shrimp/food). If someone can help, please I need some at this point, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45616	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

That happened to me... actually with my last batch that I'm still using but I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. Ooops... I guess I just did. I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin thinking that would fix it but it didn't for me either. Finally, not wanting to throw this big batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big baking pan so it was about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or other healthy filler you might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for about an hour until it got to the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" thick. Then I let it cool and refrigerated the entire pan for an hour. Sliced it into 2" x 2" pieces and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put another layer of foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of pieces in the freezer and froze them for an hour. Took them out and peeled the individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all in a gallon sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a time and keep it in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge and peel off little pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. Each piece lasts me a few days and then I take another frozen chip out and repeat. The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but the bottom section was a little gooey but held together well in my tanks. When you take out the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge container and that will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side that was on the bottom. I just thought of this while I was typing this. The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until this week. I made it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice gooey mixture, then put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in the normal amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into the mixture, added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 minutes and put it into the fridge to solidify. Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new gelatin (5 more packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm mixture/gelatin, and heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in case it didn't get warm enough last time. Well it's still not solidifying :( I've done this before, the exact same way the only difference this time is that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that wouldn't make my jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds silly but I just cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very frustrating, I don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a waste of shrimp/food). If someone can help, please I need some at this point, LOL. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45617	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

My hubby's theory is that there's something in one of the new ingredients that de-activated whatever gel ingredient is used in the knox gelatin. I will go see if there's a pan clean to bake it in. Is it still a gel like consistency in the final product? Amber, who can't make jello fish food... this time at least ;) Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That happened to me... actually with my last batch that I'm still > using but > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. Ooops... I guess I > just did. > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin thinking that > would > fix it but it didn't for me either. Finally, not wanting to throw this big > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big baking pan so it was > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or other healthy filler you > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for about an hour until it got to > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" thick. Then I let it cool > and refrigerated the entire pan for an hour. Sliced it into 2" x 2" pieces > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put another > layer of > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of pieces in the > freezer and froze them for an hour. Took them out and peeled the > individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all in a gallon > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a time and > keep it > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge and peel off > little > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. Each piece lasts me a > few days and then I take another frozen chip out and repeat. > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but the bottom > section > was a little gooey but held together well in my tanks. When you take out > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge container and that > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side that was on the bottom. > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until this week. > I made > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice gooey > mixture, then > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in the normal > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into the mixture, > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 minutes and put it > into the fridge to solidify. > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new gelatin (5 more > packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm mixture/gelatin, and > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in case it didn't > get warm enough last time. > Well it's still not solidifying :( > I've done this before, the exact same way the only difference this time is > that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that wouldn't make my > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds silly but I just > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very frustrating, I > don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a waste of > shrimp/food). > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, LOL. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45618	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Paradise fish

Hello, would someone please share their experience/knowledge of Paradise fish? Asking for personal replies instead of links because my WEBTV system won't go to links anymore. Thanks, Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45619	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Mine ended up with like a film on the top since the top was exposed to the oven air and dried out more/faster than the rest, kind of like the film on home made chocolate pudding, and the rest of it did have a gel like consistency but not like Jell-O itself but once frozen and then defrosted, as needed, you can lift up the 2" x 2" square out of the little plastic container and tear off little pieces and drop them into the tank without it falling apart so it works for the purpose intended. Well.. at least mine did. Who knows about yours. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food My hubby's theory is that there's something in one of the new ingredients that de-activated whatever gel ingredient is used in the knox gelatin. I will go see if there's a pan clean to bake it in. Is it still a gel like consistency in the final product? Amber, who can't make jello fish food... this time at least ;) Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That happened to me... actually with my last batch that I'm still > using but I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. > Ooops... I guess I just did. > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin thinking that > would fix it but it didn't for me either. Finally, not wanting to > throw this big batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big > baking pan so it was about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or > other healthy filler you might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for > about an hour until it got to the texture I wanted and it was only > about 1/4" thick. Then I let it cool and refrigerated the entire pan > for an hour. Sliced it into 2" x 2" pieces and placed 6 or 8 of the > pieces on some aluminum foil, put another layer of foil, then 6 or 8 > more, etc., and then put that stack of pieces in the freezer and froze > them for an hour. Took them out and peeled the individually frozen > pieces off the foil and placed them all in a gallon sized zip-loc > freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a time and keep it in a > little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge and peel off > little pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. Each piece > lasts me a few days and then I take another frozen chip out and > repeat. > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but the bottom > section was a little gooey but held together well in my tanks. When > you take out the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge > container and that will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side > that was on the bottom. > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until this week. > I made > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice gooey > mixture, then put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin > in the normal amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin > into the mixture, added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for > 5 minutes and put it into the fridge to solidify. > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new gelatin (5 > more packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm > mixture/gelatin, and heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make > sure, just in case it didn't get warm enough last time. > Well it's still not solidifying :( > I've done this before, the exact same way the only difference this > time is that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that > wouldn't make my jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it > sounds silly but I just cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here > and it's very frustrating, I don't want to throw it all out and start > over as it's a waste of shrimp/food). > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, LOL. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45620	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Paradise fish

Just to be sure, is this a Paradise Gourami (Macropodus opercularis)? For simplicity, since you cannot open links, I'll just copy/paste info from some of my favorite profiles on these fish, below my sig. If you have any other questions, please ask away. I've kept Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) Mongabay.com - Paradise Gourami - Macropodus opercularis Paradise Fish, Paradise Gourami [Pictures] Macropodus opercularis Synonyms: Labrus opercularis, Macropodus concolor, M. filamentosus, M. venustus, Polyacanthus opercularis Physical description: An elongated fish with long fins. The coloration varies, although generally the male has a turquoise-gray to green-brown head and back. The body color is dull turquoise with numerous vertical orange stripes. The gill cover and caudal peduncle are also marked with orange. The caudal fin has an orange and turquoise marbling, while the other fins are light blue. Females are much duller in color. Size/Length: To 4" (10 cm) (although Fishbase.org shows they only reach 5-7 cm (around 3") with the males being slightly larger... but the BadmansTropicalFish profile also shows they reach 4") Similar species: None Habitat: In standing and slow-moving water in shallow areas of marshes, canals, ponds, and rice patties. Asia; China, Korea, Taiwan, Southern Vietnam, Okinawa (Japan) S: middle, top Aquarium: 20" (50 cm) or 10 gallons (38 L) is adequate for smaller fish. Full grown specimen need a larger tank with a minimum size of 24" (60 cm) or 20 gallons (75 L). Provide retreats for the female. The tank should be well-vegetated. Fish prefer large tank with lots of open swimming area. A partial cover of floating plants is beneficial to aide in bubble nest building. The Paradise Fish is an well-known jumper, so the tank should be well-covered. Water chemistry: pH 6-8 (7.0), dH 4-30 (12), 59-79°F (15-26°C). Social behavior: Young fish make excellent community fish, but adult males often cause problems. If two males are confined together in a small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons), they will fight almost as aggressively as male Betta splendens. Females may be attacked by males, even during non-spawning times. If attacks become to brutal on the female, remove her. Better results occur when several females are kept with one female. Best kept in a species tank. Suggested companions: Trichogaster, Corydoras, Botia, Angelfish, Loricarids. FOOD: Algae; flakes; live; worms, crustaceans, insects, insect larvae. A favorite meal of the Paradise fish is planeria. Sexual differences: The male is more colorful with longer fins. Breeding techniques: Breeding is fairly easy. Take a strong, established pair and place them in a tank alone. Initiate spawning by lowering the water level and increasing the temperature to 75-84°F (24-29°C). After an active courtship, the eggs float to the surface where the male collects them and spits them into the bubble nest. The bubble nest is usually built beneath a large leaf. The female should be removed at that point. The eggs, numbering as many as 1000, are guarded aggressively by the male. They hatch in 24-28 hours and are free-swimming after 3-5 days. The male should be removed. Start feeding with powdered dry foods and infusoria, and later with Artemia. Breeding potential: 5. Breeding the Paradise Fish is fairly easy. Remarks: The Paradise Fish was among the first introductions to the aquarium. It was the second tropical fish-behind the goldfish-to be imported into France (1869). There are two readily available color morphs; the black and albino variants. Difficulty of care: 4. Young Paradise Fish are excellent community fish that are hardy and easy to care for. However, adult males are a different story. They are often aggressive and pugnacious. BadmansTropicalFish.com - Macropodus opercularis Overview: Another of the so called"classic" aquarium fish the Paradisefish are a beautiful, fairly peaceful and territorial species that will defend their territory from other tank mates. Mix with the same sized fish, as they will eat smaller fish. Their beauty demands that they be given consideration, if you are willing to meet their needs. Quick stats: Listed tank sizes are the minimum Size: Up to 4 inches (10 cm) Tank: 24 inches + Strata: Top to mostly middle. PH: 6.8-8.0 Hardness: Soft to hard Temperature: 61°- 78°F (16 to 26°C) Classification: Order: Perciformes Suborder: Percoidei Family: Belontiidae Genera: Macropodus Distribution Korea, China, Taiwan and Malaysia. General Body Form: Some what long and slender, the Paradise fish fins are its distinguishing traits. The soft ray parts of the anal and dorsal fins extend to form long string like filament. The tail fin is concave with the upper and lower sections extending further out . The males are easy to identify by their thick swollen lips. Coloration: The male of this species is brilliantly colored. The sides are distinguished by their bars which are a dark Blue / Green separated by vivid Red. The head and neck area are marbled in a Brown color. The gill cover is striped in Black boarded by bright Red or Orange. The tail fin can be stunning. It is completely Red in color and with the fringes extending out make a fantastic display. The dorsal and anal fins are dark in color and fade to a red hue as they near the tail fin. The ventral fins are also red in hue and can be tipped in White. The females are considerably duller with shorter rounded fins and only the side bars are well defined. Maintenance: The Paradise fish is fairy easy to keep. They tolerate wide variations in water quality as well as temperature fluctuation's. Unfortunately they are only marginal as a community fish. They must be kept with other similar sized semi- aggressive fish . They will eat most smaller fish and rip the fins of the slower fish like the Angel. A tight-fitting cover is a must as they are accomplished jumpers. Like the Betta males will fight each other often to the death, so only keep one per tank. This species adapts readily to a wide range of foods, including small live foods, such as bloodworms, Tubifex worms, earthworms, glass worms and brine shrimp. They also accept the common flake and frozen foods. It is a good idea to supplement their diets with Spirulina based foods to provide vegetable matter. Biotope: Found in marshy areas of Korea, China, Taiwan and Malaysia. Breeding: A rise in temperature is usually enough to trigger the spawning in a well conditioned pair. This fish is an egg layer . The male will build a bubble nest to house the eggs during spawning . Like the Betta, the spawning tank must have plenty of hiding spaces like rocks caves and plants or the male may harm the female after all the eggs are laid. It is best to remove the female right after spawning. The eggs normally hatch in 24 to 36 hours. The fry start to swim the moment they are hatched . For best results the spawning tank should be shallow as the fry's labyrinth organ are not fully developed when born. The fry are very small and must be fed the finest of foods, growth is rapid. Comments: From: Amanda Date:09/16/2007 I have raised a pair of brother paradise fish from about the time they were the size of a dime. I had 3 and had to give the sister away because I won't allow inbreeding. I've got a 30 gallon tank they call home. They are beautiful fish and are fun to watch grow into the fish that they are now. They are not all that aggressive in my tank as they are with a blood parrot and a firemouth cichlid who won't bother them if they do the same in return. They like to swim tail to snout and do a little dance where they "wiggle" their bodies and show their tails by spreading them out and making the colors stand out to see who's the bigger badder brother or who gets the better spot to sleep in the night. They do tend to nip at the tails of each other but have learned to stay away from the larger fish in the tank. I would suggest them in a semi-aggressive tank for the tail nipping and the occasional chase around the tank but all in all they are a joy to have in my tank! Along with their colors they have a personality to boot! ---------------------------------------------------- From: Hayley F Date:05/04/2007 We currently have an 6-8cm male albino paradise fish in with a community of gouramis (a pearl, a golden three-spot and a red honey) along with assorted tetra, hatchetfish, bronze corys, a pitbull plec, a Chinese algae eater and a butterfly fish. The combination is working out extremely well so far. No bickering between the anabantids and no preying on the tetras. The aquarium is quite heavily planted and the anabantids often crowd around each other at the surface and have bubble blowing competitions with each other. The paradise fish is absolutely beautiful and contrasts gorgeously with the dark substrate. The larger gourami species are still quite young but we're in the process of setting up a 100 gallon community tank as an upgrade from the 30 gallon to accommodate their growth. Hopefully all will go as well as it has been, as the list of negative comments about paradise fish has left me slightly worried. Perhaps it depends on the breeding, as the other paradise fish in stock at the aquarists we bought ours from were all co-habiting peacefully, showing full colours and no signs of fin damage. They don't tend to sell very well in that store, so I've been able to observe the same fish in their setup(a very good one, a ctually) for a while now. Who knows. ------------------------------------------------------ From: Michael Jones Date:07/26/2006 I have found this fish species to be beautiful and fun to watch. Although not a community fish these fish when kept in pairs will swim around with each other chase each other and hide among the plants and rocks in the aquarium. My pair seems to eat anything from flake to frozen. This is a fantastic fish for some one looking for a colorful easy to maintain fish. ------------------------------------------------------- From: Calidon Date:07/23/2003 I Just want to tell you that Blue Paradise fish can live in water down to 45 degrees (Fahrenheit). So if it's just these fish in the aquarium and you not planning to breed them you don't need a heater as much as you need a chiller. I raise Blue Paradise fish. You can certainly tell the difference between male and female. Male are much more colorful and have huge fan-tails. Females are a drab gray mostly around the stomach area. This fish will pick a female and stay with her from the moment of mating to egg laying. Together they will keep care off the eggs. If some were to drift off from the nest they will both get them and bring them back. This is an excellent fish. I love it. If it's a good spawning there can be up to five hundred fry. It is very hard form e to sell them because I love them so much. This fish will bond with it's owner(whoever feeds it.) And a little sea salt in the water will benefit them greatly. When introducing any new fish to the aquarium especially new paradise fish, you should keep an eye on the new one to see if it's eating, especially if it's a female. The other fish may starve it to death. ---------------------------------------------------------- From: C Priest Date:03/23/2002 I find this fish agressive and a lot of ppl dont have a lot of idea about it as the pet shop told us my male would b ok wif other males and they do infact fite other fosh that look like him and eat any think in neon region .. and can jump fairly high athought they are hardy and easy to look after not really a comunity fish ! ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Date:04/16/2002 I tried getting one of these fish once when a LFS seemed to have gotten a large order of them in, bad idea, the fish went and ate the eye of a juvenile giant diano(just as big as the paradise fish) and then started chasing the others around, the store guy had them in a tank with guppys and the guppys seemed to be doing fine(then again, that many guppies its hard to see any dead ones) very peculiar fish, if you plan on getting one make sure you keep an eye on its behavior -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rosette55@... Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Paradise fish Hello, would someone please share their experience/knowledge of Paradise fish? Asking for personal replies instead of links because my WEBTV system won't go to links anymore. Thanks, Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45621	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Detailed recipe of this jello fish food and description of how exactly you combine it please? Thanks Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > My hubby's theory is that there's something in one of the new > ingredients that de-activated whatever gel ingredient is used in the > knox gelatin. > I will go see if there's a pan clean to bake it in. Is it still a gel > like consistency in the final product? > > Amber, who can't make jello fish food... this time at least ;) > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > That happened to me... actually with my last batch that I'm still > > using but > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. Ooops... I guess I > > just did. > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin thinking that > > would > > fix it but it didn't for me either. Finally, not wanting to throw this big > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big baking pan so it was > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or other healthy filler you > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for about an hour until it got to > > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" thick. Then I let it cool > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an hour. Sliced it into 2" x 2" pieces > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put another > > layer of > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of pieces in the > > freezer and froze them for an hour. Took them out and peeled the > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all in a gallon > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a time and > > keep it > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge and peel off > > little > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. Each piece lasts me a > > few days and then I take another frozen chip out and repeat. > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but the bottom > > section > > was a little gooey but held together well in my tanks. When you take out > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge container and that > > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side that was on the bottom. > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until this week. > > I made > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice gooey > > mixture, then > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in the normal > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into the mixture, > > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 minutes and put it > > into the fridge to solidify. > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new gelatin (5 more > > packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm mixture/gelatin, and > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in case it didn't > > get warm enough last time. > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > I've done this before, the exact same way the only difference this time is > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that wouldn't make my > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds silly but I just > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very frustrating, I > > don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a waste of > > shrimp/food). > > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45622	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Fish Profiles

When I go to the LFS and see some exotic new fish, I usually go home and google for fish pics to know the right name for it and read about it to see if it fits into my tnaks and water, especially that the common fish names here are often not related to the names circulated in the internet. Luck is not always on my side to find the right photo, otherwise I would spend hours googling. Are there websites that list the photos rather than Name/species? Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45623	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Here are a couple of sites that might explain it" http://www.baking911.com/howto/gelatin.htm This is about fruits but might apply: http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodcookingchemistry/a/foods-that-ruin-jell-o.htm Happy reading! ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Mine ended up with like a film on the top since the top was exposed to the > oven air and dried out more/faster than the rest, kind of like the film on > home made chocolate pudding, and the rest of it did have a gel like > consistency but not like Jell-O itself but once frozen and then defrosted, > as needed, you can lift up the 2" x 2" square out of the little plastic > container and tear off little pieces and drop them into the tank without it > falling apart so it works for the purpose intended. Well.. at least mine > did. Who knows about yours. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > My hubby's theory is that there's something in one of the new ingredients > that de-activated whatever gel ingredient is used in the knox gelatin. > I will go see if there's a pan clean to bake it in. Is it still a gel like > consistency in the final product? > > Amber, who can't make jello fish food... this time at least ;) > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > That happened to me... actually with my last batch that I'm still > > using but I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. > > Ooops... I guess I just did. > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin thinking that > > would fix it but it didn't for me either. Finally, not wanting to > > throw this big batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big > > baking pan so it was about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or > > other healthy filler you might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for > > about an hour until it got to the texture I wanted and it was only > > about 1/4" thick. Then I let it cool and refrigerated the entire pan > > for an hour. Sliced it into 2" x 2" pieces and placed 6 or 8 of the > > pieces on some aluminum foil, put another layer of foil, then 6 or 8 > > more, etc., and then put that stack of pieces in the freezer and froze > > them for an hour. Took them out and peeled the individually frozen > > pieces off the foil and placed them all in a gallon sized zip-loc > > freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a time and keep it in a > > little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge and peel off > > little pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. Each piece > > lasts me a few days and then I take another frozen chip out and > > repeat. > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but the bottom > > section was a little gooey but held together well in my tanks. When > > you take out the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge > > container and that will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side > > that was on the bottom. > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until this week. > > I made > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice gooey > > mixture, then put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin > > in the normal amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin > > into the mixture, added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for > > 5 minutes and put it into the fridge to solidify. > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new gelatin (5 > > more packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm > > mixture/gelatin, and heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make > > sure, just in case it didn't get warm enough last time. > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > I've done this before, the exact same way the only difference this > > time is that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that > > wouldn't make my jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it > > sounds silly but I just cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here > > and it's very frustrating, I don't want to throw it all out and start > > over as it's a waste of shrimp/food). > > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, LOL. > > > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45624	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Lenny and Amber,   It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish food for my Discus and have long since lost my old recipe.  But I can tell you this.    Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and probably way more than the recipe called for.  It did not harm at all to the Discus.  I got to this point from the same thing you are both describing.   And again, I fell to always doing the same thing Len just did, the baking of it.  One thing that helped me a lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and baking part way.  When the mixture was partly done and almost solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza cutter, and then freeze it.  This made the breaking apart and feeding it easier because you only worked with small squares, a little at a time and had no waste.   Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > That happened to me... actually with > my last batch that I'm still using but > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL.  > Ooops... I guess I > just did. > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin > thinking that would > fix it but it didn't for me either.  Finally, not > wanting to throw this big > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big > baking pan so it was > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or other > healthy filler you > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for about an hour > until it got to > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" > thick.  Then I let it cool > and refrigerated the entire pan for an hour.  Sliced > it into 2" x 2" pieces > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put > another layer of > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of > pieces in the > freezer and froze them for an hour.  Took them out and > peeled the > individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all > in a gallon > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a > time and keep it > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge > and peel off little > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish.  > Each piece lasts me a > few days and then I take another frozen chip out and > repeat.  > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but > the bottom section > was a little gooey but held together well in my > tanks.  When you take out > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge > container and that > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side that was > on the bottom. > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until > this week. I made > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice > gooey mixture, then > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in > the normal > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into > the mixture, > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 > minutes and put it > into the fridge to solidify. > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new > gelatin (5 more > packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm > mixture/gelatin, and > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in > case it didn't > get warm enough last time. > Well it's still not solidifying :( > I've done this before, the exact same way the only > difference this time is > that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that > wouldn't make my > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds > silly but I just > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very > frustrating, I > don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a > waste of > shrimp/food). > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, > LOL. > > Amber > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45625	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Oooooooooooooooooh, Discus! I LOVE them! I DROOL at them regularly but they are just too persnickety about how clean their tanks need to be for me. My favorite bright Siam Yellow ones happen to be on sale for half price at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ Fantasy fishkeeping... I love browsing their site. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Lenny and Amber, > > It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish food for my Discus and > have long since lost my old recipe. But I can tell you this. > > Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and probably way more than the > recipe called for. It did not harm at all to the Discus. I got to this point from the same thing you are both describing. > > And again, I fell to always doing the same thing Len just did, the baking of it. One thing that helped me a lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and baking part way. When the mixture was partly done and almost solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza cutter, and then freeze it. This made the breaking apart and feeding it easier because you only worked with small squares, a little at a time and had no waste. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > > That happened to me... actually with > > my last batch that I'm still using but > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. > > Ooops... I guess I > > just did. > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin > > thinking that would > > fix it but it didn't for me either. Finally, not > > wanting to throw this big > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big > > baking pan so it was > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or other > > healthy filler you > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for about an hour > > until it got to > > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" > > thick. Then I let it cool > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an hour. Sliced > > it into 2" x 2" pieces > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put > > another layer of > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of > > pieces in the > > freezer and froze them for an hour. Took them out and > > peeled the > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all > > in a gallon > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a > > time and keep it > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge > > and peel off little > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. > > Each piece lasts me a > > few days and then I take another frozen chip out and > > repeat. > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but > > the bottom section > > was a little gooey but held together well in my > > tanks. When you take out > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge > > container and that > > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side that was > > on the bottom. > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until > > this week. I made > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice > > gooey mixture, then > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in > > the normal > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into > > the mixture, > > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 > > minutes and put it > > into the fridge to solidify. > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new > > gelatin (5 more > > packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm > > mixture/gelatin, and > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in > > case it didn't > > get warm enough last time. > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > I've done this before, the exact same way the only > > difference this time is > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that > > wouldn't make my > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds > > silly but I just > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very > > frustrating, I > > don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a > > waste of > > shrimp/food). > > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, > > LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45626	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Hi Kai,   The biggest trick with Discus, is the one thing that is the hardest to know about or control.  The stock itself.  The "Y's and Where for's" it's just that simple.  Where did the fish come from?  Exactly, how old are they?  What have then been eating lately?  Their current tank conditions?   It's not all that hard or difficult and comes down to only two words: "Private Breeder"!  Whether it's some from the famous Jack Wattley in Florida or a good local breeder.  How much information, past selling you the fish,  are they willing to impart to you.    With the Discus, there is no such thing as too much information.  I had 3 great pairs that lived in their own 55-gallon tanks with nothing else.  I fed and cared for them, lots of water changes and some live food when I could get it and was so blessed with many fry.   To answer your question, I'll save you asking, "Well Bill, if you were doing so great with them, why did you stop"?  Simple, it was something my wife said, "Hon, do you really think other people would care for these fish as you do"?   After a lot of thought, I realized she was right and more over, the fish I was selling probably never made it past their first year.  Loving and caring for animals as we do, I realized sadly, that there really are things more important than money, so I stopped.  But remember, this all happened some 30 years ago, today it's not that difficult but you must have the room for them and above all else, sacrifice your time.  If you give into their demands you will be given back in kind with fry and a lot of Oh's and Ah's from family and friends. I still believe that they are truly the "Kings" of the aquarium hobby.   Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:13 PM Oooooooooooooooooh, Discus!  I LOVE them! I DROOL at them regularly but they are just too persnickety about how clean their tanks need to be for me.  My favorite bright Siam Yellow ones happen to be on sale for half price at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ Fantasy fishkeeping...  I love browsing their site. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Lenny and Amber, >  > It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish food for my Discus and > have long since lost my old recipe.  But I can tell you this.  >  > Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and probably way more than the > recipe called for.  It did not harm at all to the Discus.  I got to this point from the same thing you are both describing. >  > And again, I fell to always doing the same thing Len just did, the baking of it.  One thing that helped me a lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and baking part way.  When the mixture was partly done and almost solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza cutter, and then freeze it.  This made the breaking apart and feeding it easier because you only worked with small squares, a little at a time and had no waste. >  > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > > That happened to me... actually with > > my last batch that I'm still using but > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. > > Ooops... I guess I > > just did. > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin > > thinking that would > > fix it but it didn't for me either.  Finally, not > > wanting to throw this big > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big > > baking pan so it was > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or other > > healthy filler you > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for about an hour > > until it got to > > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" > > thick.  Then I let it cool > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an hour.  Sliced > > it into 2" x 2" pieces > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put > > another layer of > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of > > pieces in the > > freezer and froze them for an hour.  Took them out and > > peeled the > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all > > in a gallon > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a > > time and keep it > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge > > and peel off little > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. > > Each piece lasts me a > > few days and then I take another frozen chip out and > > repeat.  > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but > > the bottom section > > was a little gooey but held together well in my > > tanks.  When you take out > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge > > container and that > > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side that was > > on the bottom. > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until > > this week. I made > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice > > gooey mixture, then > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in > > the normal > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into > > the mixture, > > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 > > minutes and put it > > into the fridge to solidify. > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new > > gelatin (5 more > > packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm > > mixture/gelatin, and > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in > > case it didn't > > get warm enough last time. > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > I've done this before, the exact same way the only > > difference this time is > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that > > wouldn't make my > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds > > silly but I just > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very > > frustrating, I > > don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a > > waste of > > shrimp/food). > > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, > > LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45627	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

I love my Discus and I'm probably one of the worst ones on keep water changes up. I have 5. 3 ( 1 male and 2 females) are normally in a 55 gal with some BN plecos and Cardnials. The other 2 are normally in a 20 gal for breeding. Right now I have seperated the male from the female as he was really picking on her after they laid eggs. I have gotten babies from them up to two weeks and then they laid again and ate them. My mistake as I didn't know to pull the babies. I'm hoping after a good rest and time to build up strength she will be ready to have him back and get back to breeding. They whole group are just over a year old, so hopefully have a long time to keep me company. I got them from Discus Hans. Pam Hi Kai, The biggest trick with Discus, is the one thing that is the hardest to know about or control. The stock itself. The "Y's and Where for's" it's just that simple. Where did the fish come from? Exactly, how old are they? What have then been eating lately? Their current tank conditions? It's not all that hard or difficult and comes down to only two words: "Private Breeder"! Whether it's some from the famous Jack Wattley in Florida or a good local breeder. How much information, past selling you the fish, are they willing to impart to you. With the Discus, there is no such thing as too much information. I had 3 great pairs that lived in their own 55-gallon tanks with nothing else. I fed and cared for them, lots of water changes and some live food when I could get it and was so blessed with many fry. To answer your question, I'll save you asking, "Well Bill, if you were doing so great with them, why did you stop"? Simple, it was something my wife said, "Hon, do you really think other people would care for these fish as you do"? After a lot of thought, I realized she was right and more over, the fish I was selling probably never made it past their first year. Loving and caring for animals as we do, I realized sadly, that there really are things more important than money, so I stopped. But remember, this all happened some 30 years ago, today it's not that difficult but you must have the room for them and above all else, sacrifice your time. If you give into their demands you will be given back in kind with fry and a lot of Oh's and Ah's from family and friends. I still believe that they are truly the "Kings" of the aquarium hobby. Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:13 PM Oooooooooooooooooh, Discus! I LOVE them! I DROOL at them regularly but they are just too persnickety about how clean their tanks need to be for me. My favorite bright Siam Yellow ones happen to be on sale for half price at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ Fantasy fishkeeping... I love browsing their site. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Lenny and Amber, > > It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish food for my Discus and > have long since lost my old recipe. But I can tell you this. > > Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and probably way more than the > recipe called for. It did not harm at all to the Discus. I got to this point from the same thing you are both describing. > > And again, I fell to always doing the same thing Len just did, the baking of it. One thing that helped me a lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and baking part way. When the mixture was partly done and almost solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza cutter, and then freeze it. This made the breaking apart and feeding it easier because you only worked with small squares, a little at a time and had no waste. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > > That happened to me... actually with > > my last batch that I'm still using but > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. > > Ooops... I guess I > > just did. > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin > > thinking that would > > fix it but it didn't for me either. Finally, not > > wanting to throw this big > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big > > baking pan so it was > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or other > > healthy filler you > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for about an hour > > until it got to > > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" > > thick. Then I let it cool > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an hour. Sliced > > it into 2" x 2" pieces > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put > > another layer of > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of > > pieces in the > > freezer and froze them for an hour. Took them out and > > peeled the > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all > > in a gallon > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a > > time and keep it > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge > > and peel off little > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. > > Each piece lasts me a > > few days and then I take another frozen chip out and > > repeat. > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but > > the bottom section > > was a little gooey but held together well in my > > tanks. When you take out > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge > > container and that > > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side that was > > on the bottom. > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until > > this week. I made > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice > > gooey mixture, then > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in > > the normal > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into > > the mixture, > > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 > > minutes and put it > > into the fridge to solidify. > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new > > gelatin (5 more > > packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm > > mixture/gelatin, and > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in > > case it didn't > > get warm enough last time. > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > I've done this before, the exact same way the only > > difference this time is > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that > > wouldn't make my > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds > > silly but I just > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very > > frustrating, I > > don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a > > waste of > > shrimp/food). > > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, > > LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45628	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

Hi Pam,   For the Discus room is everything.  I found 55's were best as they allowed plenty of swimming room, and room also for fry, without removing from the parents.  Although power filters were used, this was only till or near spawning and then sponge filters were the rule.  Two large pieces of slate at about 10" long and 3 or 4" wide.  Two, one in each rear corner of the 55's and they were fine.  I tried other locations within the tank, to make it easier to spot size and location of fry, but all of the pairs seemed to prefer this location best.  Be careful of temperature and any changes to water conditions.   Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 1:20 PM > > I love my Discus and I'm probably one of the worst ones on > keep water changes up. I have 5. 3 ( 1 male and 2 females) > are normally in a 55 gal with some BN plecos and Cardnials. > The other 2 are normally in a 20 gal for breeding. Right now > I have seperated the male from the female as he was really > picking on her after they laid eggs. I have gotten babies > from them up to two weeks and then they laid again and ate > them. My mistake as I didn't know to pull the babies. I'm > hoping after a good rest and time to build up strength she > will be ready to have him back and get back to breeding. > They whole group are just over a year old, so hopefully have > a long time to keep me company. I got them from Discus > Hans. > > > > Pam > > >   > > > > Hi Kai, > > The biggest trick with Discus, is the one thing that is the > hardest > to know about or control.  The stock itself.  The > "Y's and Where for's" > it's just that simple.  Where did the fish come > from?  Exactly, how old > are they?  What have then been eating lately?  > Their current tank conditions? > > It's not all that hard or difficult and comes down to only > two words: > "Private Breeder"!  Whether it's some from the famous > Jack Wattley in Florida or a good local breeder.  How > much information, past selling you the fish,  are they > willing to impart to you.  > > With the Discus, there is no such thing as too much > information.  I had 3 great pairs that lived in their > own 55-gallon tanks with nothing else.  I fed and cared > for them, lots of water changes and some live food when I > could get it and was so blessed with many fry. > > To answer your question, I'll save you asking, "Well Bill, > if you were doing so great with them, why did you > stop"?  Simple, it was something my wife said, "Hon, do > you really think other people would care for these fish as > you do"? > > After a lot of thought, I realized she was right and more > over, the fish I was selling probably never made it past > their first year.  Loving and caring for animals as we > do, I realized sadly, that there really are things more > important than money, so I stopped. > > But remember, this all happened some 30 years ago, today > it's not that difficult but you must have the room for them > and above all else, sacrifice your time.  If you give > into their demands you will be given back in kind with fry > and a lot of Oh's and Ah's from family and > friends. I still believe that they are truly the "Kings" of > the aquarium hobby. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > wrote: > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:13 PM > > Oooooooooooooooooh, Discus!  I LOVE them! > > I DROOL at them regularly but they are just too persnickety > about how clean their tanks need to be for me.  My > favorite bright Siam Yellow ones happen to be on sale for > half price at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ > > Fantasy fishkeeping...  I love browsing their site. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > Lenny and Amber, > >  > > It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish food > for my Discus and > > have long since lost my old recipe.  But I can > tell you this.  > >  > > Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and > probably way more than the > > recipe called for.  It did not harm at all to the > Discus.  I got to this point from the same thing you > are both describing. > >  > > And again, I fell to always doing the same thing Len > just did, the baking of it.  One thing that helped me a > lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and baking > part way.  When the mixture was partly done and almost > solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza cutter, and > then freeze it.  This made the breaking apart and > feeding it easier because you only worked with small > squares, a little at a time and had no waste. > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish > food > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > > > That happened to me... actually with > > > my last batch that I'm still using but > > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... > LOL. > > > Ooops... I guess I > > > just did. > > > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox > gelatin > > > thinking that would > > > fix it but it didn't for me either.  > Finally, not > > > wanting to throw this big > > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a > big > > > baking pan so it was > > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or > other > > > healthy filler you > > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for > about an hour > > > until it got to > > > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" > > > thick.  Then I let it cool > > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an > hour.  Sliced > > > it into 2" x 2" pieces > > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum > foil, put > > > another layer of > > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that > stack of > > > pieces in the > > > freezer and froze them for an hour.  Took > them out and > > > peeled the > > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and > placed them all > > > in a gallon > > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen > chip at a > > > time and keep it > > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my > fridge > > > and peel off little > > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the > fish. > > > Each piece lasts me a > > > few days and then I take another frozen chip out > and > > > repeat.  > > > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and > firm but > > > the bottom section > > > was a little gooey but held together well in my > > > tanks.  When you take out > > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the > fridge > > > container and that > > > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey > side that was > > > on the bottom. > > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish > food until > > > this week. I made > > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into > a nice > > > gooey mixture, then > > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox > gelatin in > > > the normal > > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the > gelatin into > > > the mixture, > > > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up > for 5 > > > minutes and put it > > > into the fridge to solidify. > > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, > added new > > > gelatin (5 more > > > packets), boiled water and added it to the now > warm > > > mixture/gelatin, and > > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make > sure, just in > > > case it didn't > > > get warm enough last time. > > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > > I've done this before, the exact same way the > only > > > difference this time is > > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food > mixture, that > > > wouldn't make my > > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it > sounds > > > silly but I just > > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and > it's very > > > frustrating, I > > > don't want to throw it all out and start over as > it's a > > > waste of > > > shrimp/food). > > > If someone can help, please I need some at this > point, > > > LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >     >          >            >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45629	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

Well the 3 in the 55 gal have spawned a few times. They always spawn on the filter uptake tube and there is a cone right next to it. They eat the eggs that day. Maybe I'll try putting the female into the 55 gal and put the other cone in there and see what happens. Pam Hi Pam, For the Discus room is everything. I found 55's were best as they allowed plenty of swimming room, and room also for fry, without removing from the parents. Although power filters were used, this was only till or near spawning and then sponge filters were the rule. Two large pieces of slate at about 10" long and 3 or 4" wide. Two, one in each rear corner of the 55's and they were fine. I tried other locations within the tank, to make it easier to spot size and location of fry, but all of the pairs seemed to prefer this location best. Be careful of temperature and any changes to water conditions. Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 1:20 PM > > I love my Discus and I'm probably one of the worst ones on > keep water changes up. I have 5. 3 ( 1 male and 2 females) > are normally in a 55 gal with some BN plecos and Cardnials. > The other 2 are normally in a 20 gal for breeding. Right now > I have seperated the male from the female as he was really > picking on her after they laid eggs. I have gotten babies > from them up to two weeks and then they laid again and ate > them. My mistake as I didn't know to pull the babies. I'm > hoping after a good rest and time to build up strength she > will be ready to have him back and get back to breeding. > They whole group are just over a year old, so hopefully have > a long time to keep me company. I got them from Discus > Hans. > > > > Pam > > > > > > > Hi Kai, > > The biggest trick with Discus, is the one thing that is the > hardest > to know about or control. The stock itself. The > "Y's and Where for's" > it's just that simple. Where did the fish come > from? Exactly, how old > are they? What have then been eating lately? > Their current tank conditions? > > It's not all that hard or difficult and comes down to only > two words: > "Private Breeder"! Whether it's some from the famous > Jack Wattley in Florida or a good local breeder. How > much information, past selling you the fish, are they > willing to impart to you. > > With the Discus, there is no such thing as too much > information. I had 3 great pairs that lived in their > own 55-gallon tanks with nothing else. I fed and cared > for them, lots of water changes and some live food when I > could get it and was so blessed with many fry. > > To answer your question, I'll save you asking, "Well Bill, > if you were doing so great with them, why did you > stop"? Simple, it was something my wife said, "Hon, do > you really think other people would care for these fish as > you do"? > > After a lot of thought, I realized she was right and more > over, the fish I was selling probably never made it past > their first year. Loving and caring for animals as we > do, I realized sadly, that there really are things more > important than money, so I stopped. > > But remember, this all happened some 30 years ago, today > it's not that difficult but you must have the room for them > and above all else, sacrifice your time. If you give > into their demands you will be given back in kind with fry > and a lot of Oh's and Ah's from family and > friends. I still believe that they are truly the "Kings" of > the aquarium hobby. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > wrote: > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:13 PM > > Oooooooooooooooooh, Discus! I LOVE them! > > I DROOL at them regularly but they are just too persnickety > about how clean their tanks need to be for me. My > favorite bright Siam Yellow ones happen to be on sale for > half price at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ > > Fantasy fishkeeping... I love browsing their site. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > Lenny and Amber, > > > > It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish food > for my Discus and > > have long since lost my old recipe. But I can > tell you this. > > > > Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and > probably way more than the > > recipe called for. It did not harm at all to the > Discus. I got to this point from the same thing you > are both describing. > > > > And again, I fell to always doing the same thing Len > just did, the baking of it. One thing that helped me a > lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and baking > part way. When the mixture was partly done and almost > solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza cutter, and > then freeze it. This made the breaking apart and > feeding it easier because you only worked with small > squares, a little at a time and had no waste. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish > food > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > > > That happened to me... actually with > > > my last batch that I'm still using but > > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... > LOL. > > > Ooops... I guess I > > > just did. > > > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox > gelatin > > > thinking that would > > > fix it but it didn't for me either. > Finally, not > > > wanting to throw this big > > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a > big > > > baking pan so it was > > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or > other > > > healthy filler you > > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for > about an hour > > > until it got to > > > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" > > > thick. Then I let it cool > > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an > hour. Sliced > > > it into 2" x 2" pieces > > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum > foil, put > > > another layer of > > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that > stack of > > > pieces in the > > > freezer and froze them for an hour. Took > them out and > > > peeled the > > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and > placed them all > > > in a gallon > > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen > chip at a > > > time and keep it > > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my > fridge > > > and peel off little > > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the > fish. > > > Each piece lasts me a > > > few days and then I take another frozen chip out > and > > > repeat. > > > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and > firm but > > > the bottom section > > > was a little gooey but held together well in my > > > tanks. When you take out > > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the > fridge > > > container and that > > > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey > side that was > > > on the bottom. > > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish > food until > > > this week. I made > > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into > a nice > > > gooey mixture, then > > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox > gelatin in > > > the normal > > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the > gelatin into > > > the mixture, > > > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up > for 5 > > > minutes and put it > > > into the fridge to solidify. > > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, > added new > > > gelatin (5 more > > > packets), boiled water and added it to the now > warm > > > mixture/gelatin, and > > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make > sure, just in > > > case it didn't > > > get warm enough last time. > > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > > I've done this before, the exact same way the > only > > > difference this time is > > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food > mixture, that > > > wouldn't make my > > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it > sounds > > > silly but I just > > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and > it's very > > > frustrating, I > > > don't want to throw it all out and start over as > it's a > > > waste of > > > shrimp/food). > > > If someone can help, please I need some at this > point, > > > LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > �.���`�.�. , > .���`�..><((((�> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > �.���`�.�. , > .���`�..><((((�> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45630	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

Patience Girl, Patience!   In spite of your very best efforts, they will do what they will do, period.   It's best to find out just who is spawning with who.  Once you know that, put that pair in the largest tank you have available by themselves.  A few sponge filters and wait.  A new or forming pair may eat spawn after spawn, then one day you'll be walking around with a coffee and looking your tanks over and there they'll be!  This almost always happens on a day that you're never quite ready for it!  <G> Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 1:50 PM > > Well the 3 in the 55 gal have spawned a few times. They > always spawn on the filter uptake tube and there is a cone > right next to it.   They eat the eggs that > day.    Maybe I'll try putting the female into the > 55 gal and put the other cone in there and see what > happens. > > > > Pam > > > >   > > > > Hi Pam, > > For the Discus room is everything.  I found 55's were > best as they allowed plenty of swimming room, and room also > for fry, without removing from the parents.  Although > power filters were used, this was only till or near spawning > and then sponge filters were the rule.  Two large > pieces of slate at about 10" long and 3 or 4" wide.  > Two, one in each rear corner of the 55's and they were > fine.  I tried other locations within the tank, to make > it easier to spot size and location of fry, but all of the > pairs seemed to prefer this location best.  Be careful > of temperature and any changes to water conditions. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > wrote: > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 1:20 PM > > > > I love my Discus and I'm probably one of the worst > ones on > > keep water changes up. I have 5. 3 ( 1 male and 2 > females) > > are normally in a 55 gal with some BN plecos and > Cardnials. > > The other 2 are normally in a 20 gal for breeding. > Right now > > I have seperated the male from the female as he was > really > > picking on her after they laid eggs. I have gotten > babies > > from them up to two weeks and then they laid again and > ate > > them. My mistake as I didn't know to pull the babies. > I'm > > hoping after a good rest and time to build up strength > she > > will be ready to have him back and get back to > breeding. > > They whole group are just over a year old, so > hopefully have > > a long time to keep me company. I got them from > Discus > > Hans. > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > >    > > > > > > > > Hi Kai, > > > > The biggest trick with Discus, is the one thing that > is the > > hardest > > to know about or control.  The stock > itself.  The > > "Y's and Where for's" > > it's just that simple.  Where did the fish come > > from?  Exactly, how old > > are they?  What have then been eating lately? > > Their current tank conditions? > > > > It's not all that hard or difficult and comes down to > only > > two words: > > "Private Breeder"!  Whether it's some from the > famous > > Jack Wattley in Florida or a good local breeder.  > How > > much information, past selling you the fish,  are > they > > willing to impart to you.  > > > > With the Discus, there is no such thing as too much > > information.  I had 3 great pairs that lived in > their > > own 55-gallon tanks with nothing else.  I fed and > cared > > for them, lots of water changes and some live food > when I > > could get it and was so blessed with many fry. > > > > To answer your question, I'll save you asking, "Well > Bill, > > if you were doing so great with them, why did you > > stop"?  Simple, it was something my wife said, > "Hon, do > > you really think other people would care for these > fish as > > you do"? > > > > After a lot of thought, I realized she was right and > more > > over, the fish I was selling probably never made it > past > > their first year.  Loving and caring for animals > as we > > do, I realized sadly, that there really are things > more > > important than money, so I stopped. > > > > But remember, this all happened some 30 years ago, > today > > it's not that difficult but you must have the room for > them > > and above all else, sacrifice your time.  If you > give > > into their demands you will be given back in kind with > fry > > and a lot of Oh's and Ah's from family and > > friends. I still believe that they are truly the > "Kings" of > > the aquarium hobby. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > wrote: > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:13 PM > > > > Oooooooooooooooooh, Discus!  I LOVE them! > > > > I DROOL at them regularly but they are just too > persnickety > > about how clean their tanks need to be for me.  > My > > favorite bright Siam Yellow ones happen to be on sale > for > > half price at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ > > > > Fantasy fishkeeping...  I love browsing their > site. > > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > > > Lenny and Amber, > > >  > > > It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish > food > > for my Discus and > > > have long since lost my old recipe.  But I > can > > tell you this.  > > >  > > > Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and > > probably way more than the > > > recipe called for.  It did not harm at all > to the > > Discus.  I got to this point from the same thing > you > > are both describing. > > >  > > > And again, I fell to always doing the same thing > Len > > just did, the baking of it.  One thing that > helped me a > > lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and > baking > > part way.  When the mixture was partly done and > almost > > solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza > cutter, and > > then freeze it.  This made the breaking apart > and > > feeding it easier because you only worked with small > > squares, a little at a time and had no waste. > > >  > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > <GoldLenny@...> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello > fish > > food > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > > > > That happened to me... actually with > > > > my last batch that I'm still using but > > > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make > jello... > > LOL. > > > > Ooops... I guess I > > > > just did. > > > > > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more > knox > > gelatin > > > > thinking that would > > > > fix it but it didn't for me either. > > Finally, not > > > > wanting to throw this big > > > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo > into a > > big > > > > baking pan so it was > > > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal > (or > > other > > > > healthy filler you > > > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F > for > > about an hour > > > > until it got to > > > > the texture I wanted and it was only about > 1/4" > > > > thick.  Then I let it cool > > > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an > > hour.  Sliced > > > > it into 2" x 2" pieces > > > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some > aluminum > > foil, put > > > > another layer of > > > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put > that > > stack of > > > > pieces in the > > > > freezer and froze them for an hour.  > Took > > them out and > > > > peeled the > > > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and > > placed them all > > > > in a gallon > > > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one > frozen > > chip at a > > > > time and keep it > > > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container > in my > > fridge > > > > and peel off little > > > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for > the > > fish. > > > > Each piece lasts me a > > > > few days and then I take another frozen chip > out > > and > > > > repeat.  > > > > > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice > and > > firm but > > > > the bottom section > > > > was a little gooey but held together well in > my > > > > tanks.  When you take out > > > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in > the > > fridge > > > > container and that > > > > will probably help dry out the slightly > gooey > > side that was > > > > on the bottom. > > > > I just thought of this while I was typing > this. > > > > > > > > The fish still love their new baked > gel-food. > > LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > > are listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under > > Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish > food > > > > > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello > fish > > food until > > > > this week. I made > > > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender > into > > a nice > > > > gooey mixture, then > > > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added > knox > > gelatin in > > > > the normal > > > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed > the > > gelatin into > > > > the mixture, > > > > added boiling water, warmed the whole > mixture up > > for 5 > > > > minutes and put it > > > > into the fridge to solidify. > > > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > > > So today I re-heated the mixture this > afternoon, > > added new > > > > gelatin (5 more > > > > packets), boiled water and added it to the > now > > warm > > > > mixture/gelatin, and > > > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to > make > > sure, just in > > > > case it didn't > > > > get warm enough last time. > > > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > > > I've done this before, the exact same way > the > > only > > > > difference this time is > > > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food > > mixture, that > > > > wouldn't make my > > > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I > know it > > sounds > > > > silly but I just > > > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here > and > > it's very > > > > frustrating, I > > > > don't want to throw it all out and start > over as > > it's a > > > > waste of > > > > shrimp/food). > > > > If someone can help, please I need some at > this > > point, > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the > > original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking > on > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the > > > > home page.  > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single > > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on > the > > group and > > > > post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > page.  > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >    > >          > >            > >    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > >     >          >            >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45631	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

The pair in the 20 gal have laid over and over. I've been very patient. I'm loosing it though. lol The 3 in the 55 gal have just switched females. They have only laid once. The other female and that male laid a few times. I'm still being patient though. lol Pam PS So I need to walk around with some coffee? Now I know whats wrong! lol Patience Girl, Patience! In spite of your very best efforts, they will do what they will do, period. It's best to find out just who is spawning with who. Once you know that, put that pair in the largest tank you have available by themselves. A few sponge filters and wait. A new or forming pair may eat spawn after spawn, then one day you'll be walking around with a coffee and looking your tanks over and there they'll be! This almost always happens on a day that you're never quite ready for it! <G> Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45632	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

Pam? One thing you did not mention: "Have ALL of the Discus been together in the 55 by themselves at one time or another"?  Of course, with no other fish present, I hope?   Bill   PS on the coffee?  Cigarettes help too but the Discus has trouble keeping them lit under water!  We don't want to condone bad habits, do we? <g> --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 2:43 PM > > The pair in the 20 gal have laid over and over. I've been > very patient. I'm loosing it though. lol The 3 in the 55 gal > have just switched females. They have only laid once. The > other female and that male laid a few times. I'm still being > patient though. lol > > > > Pam > > PS So I need to walk around with some coffee? Now I know > whats wrong! lol > > >   > > > > Patience Girl, Patience! > > In spite of your very best efforts, they will do what they > will do, period. > > It's best to find out just who is spawning with who.  > Once you know that, > put that pair in the largest tank you have available by > themselves.  A few sponge filters and wait.  A new > or forming pair may eat spawn after spawn, then one day > you'll be walking around with a coffee and looking your > tanks over and there they'll be!  This almost always > happens on a day that you're never quite ready for it!  > <G> > > Bill > > >     >          >            >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45633	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

Yes all the Discus have been together in the 55 gal. Thats how the first two paired off and then the others. I got them when they were 2 1/2 inches. The baby BN's, mystery snails and cardnials were added over the last year. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: warrenprint@... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:00:44 -0800 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus Pam? One thing you did not mention: "Have ALL of the Discus been together in the 55 by themselves at one time or another"? Of course, with no other fish present, I hope? Bill PS on the coffee? Cigarettes help too but the Discus has trouble keeping them lit under water! We don't want to condone bad habits, do we? <g> --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 2:43 PM > > The pair in the 20 gal have laid over and over. I've been > very patient. I'm loosing it though. lol The 3 in the 55 gal > have just switched females. They have only laid once. The > other female and that male laid a few times. I'm still being > patient though. lol > > > > Pam > > PS So I need to walk around with some coffee? Now I know > whats wrong! lol > > > > > > > Patience Girl, Patience! > > In spite of your very best efforts, they will do what they > will do, period. > > It's best to find out just who is spawning with who. > Once you know that, > put that pair in the largest tank you have available by > themselves. A few sponge filters and wait. A new > or forming pair may eat spawn after spawn, then one day > you'll be walking around with a coffee and looking your > tanks over and there they'll be! This almost always > happens on a day that you're never quite ready for it! > <G> > > Bill > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45634	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Maybe "someday" I'll keep Discus. But my 55g is overfull already (No scolding allowed!) and barring a catastrophe, I figure I've got another 10-15 years before they all go to fishie-heaven. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Kai, > > The biggest trick with Discus, is the one thing that is the hardest > to know about or control. The stock itself. The "Y's and Where for's" > it's just that simple. Where did the fish come from? Exactly, how old > are they? What have then been eating lately? Their current tank conditions? > > It's not all that hard or difficult and comes down to only two words: > "Private Breeder"! Whether it's some from the famous Jack Wattley in Florida or a good local breeder. How much information, past selling you the fish, are they willing to impart to you. > > With the Discus, there is no such thing as too much information. I had 3 great pairs that lived in their own 55-gallon tanks with nothing else. I fed and cared for them, lots of water changes and some live food when I could get it and was so blessed with many fry. > > To answer your question, I'll save you asking, "Well Bill, if you were doing so great with them, why did you stop"? Simple, it was something my wife said, "Hon, do you really think other people would care for these fish as you do"? > > After a lot of thought, I realized she was right and more over, the fish I was selling probably never made it past their first year. Loving and caring for animals as we do, I realized sadly, that there really are things more important than money, so I stopped. > > But remember, this all happened some 30 years ago, today it's not that difficult but you must have the room for them and above all else, sacrifice your time. If you give into their demands you will be given back in kind with fry and a lot of Oh's and Ah's from family and > friends. I still believe that they are truly the "Kings" of the aquarium hobby. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:13 PM > > > Oooooooooooooooooh, Discus! I LOVE them! > > I DROOL at them regularly but they are just too persnickety about how clean their tanks need to be for me. My favorite bright Siam Yellow ones happen to be on sale for half price at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ > > Fantasy fishkeeping... I love browsing their site. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > Lenny and Amber, > > > > It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish food for my Discus and > > have long since lost my old recipe. But I can tell you this. > > > > Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and probably way more than the > > recipe called for. It did not harm at all to the Discus. I got to this point from the same thing you are both describing. > > > > And again, I fell to always doing the same thing Len just did, the baking of it. One thing that helped me a lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and baking part way. When the mixture was partly done and almost solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza cutter, and then freeze it. This made the breaking apart and feeding it easier because you only worked with small squares, a little at a time and had no waste. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > > > That happened to me... actually with > > > my last batch that I'm still using but > > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. > > > Ooops... I guess I > > > just did. > > > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin > > > thinking that would > > > fix it but it didn't for me either. Finally, not > > > wanting to throw this big > > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big > > > baking pan so it was > > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or other > > > healthy filler you > > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for about an hour > > > until it got to > > > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" > > > thick. Then I let it cool > > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an hour. Sliced > > > it into 2" x 2" pieces > > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put > > > another layer of > > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of > > > pieces in the > > > freezer and froze them for an hour. Took them out and > > > peeled the > > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all > > > in a gallon > > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a > > > time and keep it > > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge > > > and peel off little > > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. > > > Each piece lasts me a > > > few days and then I take another frozen chip out and > > > repeat. > > > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but > > > the bottom section > > > was a little gooey but held together well in my > > > tanks. When you take out > > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge > > > container and that > > > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side that was > > > on the bottom. > > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until > > > this week. I made > > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice > > > gooey mixture, then > > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in > > > the normal > > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into > > > the mixture, > > > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 > > > minutes and put it > > > into the fridge to solidify. > > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new > > > gelatin (5 more > > > packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm > > > mixture/gelatin, and > > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in > > > case it didn't > > > get warm enough last time. > > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > > I've done this before, the exact same way the only > > > difference this time is > > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that > > > wouldn't make my > > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds > > > silly but I just > > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very > > > frustrating, I > > > don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a > > > waste of > > > shrimp/food). > > > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, > > > LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45635	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

And you got them from "Hans Discus"? I could not find a site for him save for direct contact information for sales. I do understand from here as well as other groups that he has some fine fish though. Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 3:47 PM > > Yes all the Discus have been together in the 55 gal. Thats > how the first two paired off and then the others. I got them > when they were 2 1/2 inches. The baby BN's, mystery snails > and cardnials were added over the last year. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: warrenprint@... > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:00:44 -0800 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > >   > > > > Pam? > > One thing you did not mention: "Have ALL of the Discus been > together in > the 55 by themselves at one time or another"?  > Of course, with no other fish present, I hope? > > Bill > > PS on the coffee?  Cigarettes help too but the Discus > has trouble keeping > them lit under water!  We don't want to condone bad > habits, do we? <g> > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > wrote: > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 2:43 PM > > > > The pair in the 20 gal have laid over and over. I've > been > > very patient. I'm loosing it though. lol The 3 in the > 55 gal > > have just switched females. They have only laid once. > The > > other female and that male laid a few times. I'm still > being > > patient though. lol > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > PS So I need to walk around with some coffee? Now I > know > > whats wrong! lol > > > > > >    > > > > > > > > Patience Girl, Patience! > > > > In spite of your very best efforts, they will do what > they > > will do, period. > > > > It's best to find out just who is spawning with who. > > Once you know that, > > put that pair in the largest tank you have available > by > > themselves.  A few sponge filters and wait.  > A new > > or forming pair may eat spawn after spawn, then one > day > > you'll be walking around with a coffee and looking > your > > tanks over and there they'll be!  This almost > always > > happens on a day that you're never quite ready for it! > > > <G> > > > > Bill > > > > > >    > >          > >            > >    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > >     >          >            >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45636	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

With the Discus, there is no rush. But remember that all your learning now applies in spades with the Discus later. The bad part is that they are not the most forgiving fish you can keep, as you probably already know. You'll get there when your ready and until then, enjoy what you have. Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 3:48 PM > Maybe "someday" I'll keep > Discus.  But my 55g is overfull already (No scolding > allowed!) and barring a catastrophe, I figure I've got > another 10-15 years before they all go to fishie-heaven. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Kai, > >  > > The biggest trick with Discus, is the one thing that > is the hardest > > to know about or control.  The stock > itself.  The "Y's and Where for's" > > it's just that simple.  Where did the fish come > from?  Exactly, how old > > are they?  What have then been eating > lately?  Their current tank conditions? > >  > > It's not all that hard or difficult and comes down to > only two words: > > "Private Breeder"!  Whether it's some from the > famous Jack Wattley in Florida or a good local > breeder.  How much information, past selling you the > fish,  are they willing to impart to you.  > >  > > With the Discus, there is no such thing as too much > information.  I had 3 great pairs that lived in their > own 55-gallon tanks with nothing else.  I fed and cared > for them, lots of water changes and some live food when I > could get it and was so blessed with many fry. > >  > > To answer your question, I'll save you asking, "Well > Bill, if you were doing so great with them, why did you > stop"?  Simple, it was something my wife said, "Hon, do > you really think other people would care for these fish as > you do"? > >  > > After a lot of thought, I realized she was right and > more over, the fish I was selling probably never made it > past their first year.  Loving and caring for animals > as we do, I realized sadly, that there really are things > more important than money, so I stopped. > >  > > But remember, this all happened some 30 years ago, > today it's not that difficult but you must have the room for > them and above all else, sacrifice your time.  If you > give into their demands you will be given back in kind with > fry and a lot of Oh's and Ah's from family and > > friends.  I still believe that they are truly the > "Kings" of the aquarium hobby. > >  > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > wrote: > > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:13 PM > > > > > > Oooooooooooooooooh, Discus!  I LOVE them! > > > > I DROOL at them regularly but they are just too > persnickety about how clean their tanks need to be for > me.  My favorite bright Siam Yellow ones happen to be > on sale for half price at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ > > > > Fantasy fishkeeping...  I love browsing their > site. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Lenny and Amber, > > >  > > > It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish > food for my Discus and > > > have long since lost my old recipe.  But I > can tell you this.  > > >  > > > Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and > probably way more than the > > > recipe called for.  It did not harm at all > to the Discus.  I got to this point from the same thing > you are both describing. > > >  > > > And again, I fell to always doing the same thing > Len just did, the baking of it.  One thing that helped > me a lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and > baking part way.  When the mixture was partly done and > almost solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza > cutter, and then freeze it.  This made the breaking > apart and feeding it easier because you only worked with > small squares, a little at a time and had no waste. > > >  > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello > fish food > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > > > > That happened to me... actually with > > > > my last batch that I'm still using but > > > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make > jello... LOL. > > > > Ooops... I guess I > > > > just did. > > > > > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more > knox gelatin > > > > thinking that would > > > > fix it but it didn't for me either.  > Finally, not > > > > wanting to throw this big > > > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo > into a big > > > > baking pan so it was > > > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal > (or other > > > > healthy filler you > > > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for > about an hour > > > > until it got to > > > > the texture I wanted and it was only about > 1/4" > > > > thick.  Then I let it cool > > > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an > hour.  Sliced > > > > it into 2" x 2" pieces > > > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some > aluminum foil, put > > > > another layer of > > > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put > that stack of > > > > pieces in the > > > > freezer and froze them for an hour.  > Took them out and > > > > peeled the > > > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and > placed them all > > > > in a gallon > > > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one > frozen chip at a > > > > time and keep it > > > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container > in my fridge > > > > and peel off little > > > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the > fish. > > > > Each piece lasts me a > > > > few days and then I take another frozen chip > out and > > > > repeat.  > > > > > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice > and firm but > > > > the bottom section > > > > was a little gooey but held together well in > my > > > > tanks.  When you take out > > > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in > the fridge > > > > container and that > > > > will probably help dry out the slightly > gooey side that was > > > > on the bottom. > > > > I just thought of this while I was typing > this. > > > > > > > > The fish still love their new baked > gel-food. LOL > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are listed > > > > on the right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also > under Archives > > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish > food > > > > > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello > fish food until > > > > this week. I made > > > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender > into a nice > > > > gooey mixture, then > > > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added > knox gelatin in > > > > the normal > > > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed > the gelatin into > > > > the mixture, > > > > added boiling water, warmed the whole > mixture up for 5 > > > > minutes and put it > > > > into the fridge to solidify. > > > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > > > So today I re-heated the mixture this > afternoon, added new > > > > gelatin (5 more > > > > packets), boiled water and added it to the > now warm > > > > mixture/gelatin, and > > > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to > make sure, just in > > > > case it didn't > > > > get warm enough last time. > > > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > > > I've done this before, the exact same way > the only > > > > difference this time is > > > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food > mixture, that > > > > wouldn't make my > > > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I > know it sounds > > > > silly but I just > > > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here > and it's very > > > > frustrating, I > > > > don't want to throw it all out and start > over as it's a > > > > waste of > > > > shrimp/food). > > > > If someone can help, please I need some at > this point, > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking > on "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the > > > > home page.  > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on > the group and > > > > post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45637	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

I'm late checking mail today so I'm not sure if anyone replied yet but here are a few websites with the recipes, depending on your type of fish. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food Detailed recipe of this jello fish food and description of how exactly you combine it please? Thanks Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > My hubby's theory is that there's something in one of the new > ingredients that de-activated whatever gel ingredient is used in the > knox gelatin. > I will go see if there's a pan clean to bake it in. Is it still a gel > like consistency in the final product? > > Amber, who can't make jello fish food... this time at least ;) > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > That happened to me... actually with my last batch that I'm still > > using but I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. > > Ooops... I guess I just did. > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin thinking > > that would fix it but it didn't for me either. Finally, not wanting > > to throw this big batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a > > big baking pan so it was about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal > > (or other healthy filler you might have on hand) and baked it at > > 300F for about an hour until it got to the texture I wanted and it > > was only about 1/4" thick. Then I let it cool and refrigerated the > > entire pan for an hour. Sliced it into 2" x 2" pieces and placed 6 > > or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put another layer of foil, > > then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of pieces in the > > freezer and froze them for an hour. Took them out and peeled the > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all in a > > gallon sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a > > time and keep it in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my > > fridge and peel off little pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for > > the fish. Each piece lasts me a few days and then I take another > > frozen chip out and repeat. > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but the bottom > > section was a little gooey but held together well in my tanks. When > > you take out the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge > > container and that will probably help dry out the slightly gooey > > side that was on the bottom. > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until this week. > > I made > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice gooey > > mixture, then put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox > > gelatin in the normal amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the > > gelatin into the mixture, added boiling water, warmed the whole > > mixture up for 5 minutes and put it into the fridge to solidify. > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new gelatin > > (5 more packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm > > mixture/gelatin, and heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make > > sure, just in case it didn't get warm enough last time. > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > I've done this before, the exact same way the only difference this > > time is that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that > > wouldn't make my jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it > > sounds silly but I just cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here > > and it's very frustrating, I don't want to throw it all out and > > start over as it's a waste of shrimp/food). > > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, LOL. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45638	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

There are thousands, if not millions of different species and variants. Now, if you had the general group, like tetras or cichlids or catfish, etc... but even with that, there could be hundreds, if not thousands of each of those groups of fish. You would have better luck taking pictures of the fish and posting them in an album in this group or your own online album and asking us if we can ID it for you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles When I go to the LFS and see some exotic new fish, I usually go home and google for fish pics to know the right name for it and read about it to see if it fits into my tnaks and water, especially that the common fish names here are often not related to the names circulated in the internet. Luck is not always on my side to find the right photo, otherwise I would spend hours googling. Are there websites that list the photos rather than Name/species? Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45639	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

http://www.discus-hans-usa.com/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > And you got them from "Hans Discus"? I could not find a site > for him save for direct contact information for sales. I do understand > from here as well as other groups that he has some fine fish though. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 3:47 PM > > > > Yes all the Discus have been together in the 55 gal. Thats > > how the first two paired off and then the others. I got them > > when they were 2 1/2 inches. The baby BN's, mystery snails > > and cardnials were added over the last year. > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: warrenprint@... > > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:00:44 -0800 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam? > > > > One thing you did not mention: "Have ALL of the Discus been > > together in > > the 55 by themselves at one time or another"? > > Of course, with no other fish present, I hope? > > > > Bill > > > > PS on the coffee? Cigarettes help too but the Discus > > has trouble keeping > > them lit under water! We don't want to condone bad > > habits, do we? <g> > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 2:43 PM > > > > > > The pair in the 20 gal have laid over and over. I've > > been > > > very patient. I'm loosing it though. lol The 3 in the > > 55 gal > > > have just switched females. They have only laid once. > > The > > > other female and that male laid a few times. I'm still > > being > > > patient though. lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > PS So I need to walk around with some coffee? Now I > > know > > > whats wrong! lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patience Girl, Patience! > > > > > > In spite of your very best efforts, they will do what > > they > > > will do, period. > > > > > > It's best to find out just who is spawning with who. > > > Once you know that, > > > put that pair in the largest tank you have available > > by > > > themselves. A few sponge filters and wait. > > A new > > > or forming pair may eat spawn after spawn, then one > > day > > > you'll be walking around with a coffee and looking > > your > > > tanks over and there they'll be! This almost > > always > > > happens on a day that you're never quite ready for it! > > > > > <G> > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45640	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: A Fish Tale

Larry the Lobster and Sam the Clam were old fish-buddies. But one day a terrible tragedy befell them. CLAMBAKE! And they were delicious. So Larry the Lobster and Sam the Clam went swimming up to fish-heaven where fish-St Peter met them at the gate. "Larry the Lobster," he said. "You've been a good lobster all your life. Welcome to fish-heaven." And fish-St Peter gave him his harp, and his halo, and his wings. "But Sam the Clam," he said, "Tsk, tsk, tsk. I'm sorry, you have to go to fish-hell." So the two old friends said their goodbyes and went their separate ways. Half an eternity later, Larry the Lobster began to miss his old pal Sam the Clam so he asked fish-St Peter for a pass. Fish-St Peter thought about it for a few moments and suddenly a digital watch appeared on Larry the Lobster's arm. "OK, you have six hours. But you must keep your harp with you. It's the only thing that will protect you." Larry the Lobster thanked him excitedly and went swimming down to fish-hell. Turned out that Sam the Clam had opened up a club. There was music, there was drinking, there were half-naked lady fishes dancing on the counters! YEE-HA! PARTY TIME!!! But time passed quickly and soon Larry the Lobster's alarm rang. The two old friends said their goodbyes and Larry the Lobster went swimming back up to fish-heaven. But he wasn't making such good time because he'd had a few too many (wink, wink) Shrimp Cocktails... Larry the Lobster slipped through the gates just as fish-St Peter was closing them. "Larry the Lobster!" fish-St Peter exclaimed. "Where have you been? You almost didn't make it back in time. Is that lipstick on your collar? Is that liquor on your breath? And WHERE'S YOUR HARP???" Larry the Lobster, unsteady on his feet, looked at one claw. Nope. Not there. He turned and looked at the other. Nope, not there either. So he shrugged and he sang, "I left my haaaaaaaarp in Sam Clam's discoooooooo..." I can hear you groaning from here... ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45641	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Maybe late Buddy! BUT on the ball as ever! Thanks for those "Links". Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 4:00 PM > I'm late checking mail today so I'm > not sure if anyone replied yet but here > are a few websites with the recipes, depending on your type > of fish. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp > > http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html > > http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html > > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 > > http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > > > Detailed recipe of this jello fish food and description of > how exactly you > combine it please? Thanks > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > My hubby's theory is that there's something in one of > the new > > ingredients that de-activated whatever gel ingredient > is used in the > > knox gelatin. > > I will go see if there's a pan clean to bake it in. Is > it still a gel > > like consistency in the final product? > > > > Amber, who can't make jello fish food... this time at > least ;) > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > That happened to me... actually with my last > batch that I'm still > > > using but I didn't advertise that I couldn't make > jello... LOL. > > > Ooops... I guess I just did. > > > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox > gelatin thinking > > > that would fix it but it didn't for me either. > Finally, not wanting > > > to throw this big batch away, I poured the entire > liquid goo into a > > > big baking pan so it was about 1/2" thick, added > some plain oatmeal > > > (or other healthy filler you might have on hand) > and baked it at > > > 300F for about an hour until it got to the > texture I wanted and it > > > was only about 1/4" thick. Then I let it cool and > refrigerated the > > > entire pan for an hour. Sliced it into 2" x 2" > pieces and placed 6 > > > or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put > another layer of foil, > > > then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack > of pieces in the > > > freezer and froze them for an hour. Took them out > and peeled the > > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and > placed them all in a > > > gallon sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one > frozen chip at a > > > time and keep it in a little used 8 oz. sour > cream container in my > > > fridge and peel off little pieces of the 2" x 2" > chip as needed for > > > the fish. Each piece lasts me a few days and then > I take another > > > frozen chip out and repeat. > > > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and > firm but the bottom > > > section was a little gooey but held together well > in my tanks. When > > > you take out the frozen chip, put the baked side > down in the fridge > > > container and that will probably help dry out the > slightly gooey > > > side that was on the bottom. > > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. > LOL > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links > to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish > food until this week. > > > I made > > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into > a nice gooey > > > mixture, then put it in a pot on low, boiled > water, added knox > > > gelatin in the normal amount I've always added (5 > packets) mixed the > > > gelatin into the mixture, added boiling water, > warmed the whole > > > mixture up for 5 minutes and put it into the > fridge to solidify. > > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, > added new gelatin > > > (5 more packets), boiled water and added it to > the now warm > > > mixture/gelatin, and heated it up for 10 minutes > this time to make > > > sure, just in case it didn't get warm enough last > time. > > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > > I've done this before, the exact same way the > only difference this > > > time is that I added squash and cabbage to my > food mixture, that > > > wouldn't make my jello food not solidify would > it? LOL (I know it > > > sounds silly but I just cannot figure out what > I'm doing wrong here > > > and it's very frustrating, I don't want to throw > it all out and > > > start over as it's a waste of shrimp/food). > > > If someone can help, please I need some at this > point, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45642	From: pam andress	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

Here is his site. http://www.discus-hans-usa.com/ Pam And you got them from "Hans Discus"? I could not find a site for him save for direct contact information for sales. I do understand from here as well as other groups that he has some fine fish though. Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 3:47 PM > > Yes all the Discus have been together in the 55 gal. Thats > how the first two paired off and then the others. I got them > when they were 2 1/2 inches. The baby BN's, mystery snails > and cardnials were added over the last year. > > > > Pam > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: warrenprint@... > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:00:44 -0800 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > > > > > Pam? > > One thing you did not mention: "Have ALL of the Discus been > together in > the 55 by themselves at one time or another"? > Of course, with no other fish present, I hope? > > Bill > > PS on the coffee? Cigarettes help too but the Discus > has trouble keeping > them lit under water! We don't want to condone bad > habits, do we? <g> > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > wrote: > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 2:43 PM > > > > The pair in the 20 gal have laid over and over. I've > been > > very patient. I'm loosing it though. lol The 3 in the > 55 gal > > have just switched females. They have only laid once. > The > > other female and that male laid a few times. I'm still > being > > patient though. lol > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > PS So I need to walk around with some coffee? Now I > know > > whats wrong! lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patience Girl, Patience! > > > > In spite of your very best efforts, they will do what > they > > will do, period. > > > > It's best to find out just who is spawning with who. > > Once you know that, > > put that pair in the largest tank you have available > by > > themselves. A few sponge filters and wait. > A new > > or forming pair may eat spawn after spawn, then one > day > > you'll be walking around with a coffee and looking > your > > tanks over and there they'll be! This almost > always > > happens on a day that you're never quite ready for it! > > > <G> > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45643	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

Many Thanks for the link, I'm obliged to you. If you look closely for a bit at it's opening photo at Baltimore USA, it tells you all you need to know! Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 4:06 PM > http://www.discus-hans-usa.com/ > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > And you got them from "Hans Discus"?  I could not > find a site > > for him save for direct contact information for > sales.  I do understand > > from here as well as other groups that he has some > fine fish though. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress > <pamandress23@...> wrote: > > > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 3:47 PM > > > > > > Yes all the Discus have been together in the 55 > gal. Thats > > > how the first two paired off and then the others. > I got them > > > when they were 2 1/2 inches. The baby BN's, > mystery snails > > > and cardnials were added over the last year. > > > > > >  > > > > > > Pam > > >  > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > From: warrenprint@... > > > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:00:44 -0800 > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > > > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam? > > > > > > One thing you did not mention: "Have ALL of the > Discus been > > > together in > > > the 55 by themselves at one time or > another"?  > > > Of course, with no other fish present, I hope? > > >  > > > Bill > > >  > > > PS on the coffee?  Cigarettes help too but > the Discus > > > has trouble keeping > > > them lit under water!  We don't want to > condone bad > > > habits, do we? <g> > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, pam andress > <pamandress23@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus > > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 2:43 PM > > > > > > > > The pair in the 20 gal have laid over and > over. I've > > > been > > > > very patient. I'm loosing it though. lol The > 3 in the > > > 55 gal > > > > have just switched females. They have only > laid once. > > > The > > > > other female and that male laid a few times. > I'm still > > > being > > > > patient though. lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > PS So I need to walk around with some > coffee? Now I > > > know > > > > whats wrong! lol > > > > > > > > > > > >    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patience Girl, Patience! > > > > > > > > In spite of your very best efforts, they > will do what > > > they > > > > will do, period. > > > > > > > > It's best to find out just who is spawning > with who. > > > > Once you know that, > > > > put that pair in the largest tank you have > available > > > by > > > > themselves.  A few sponge filters and > wait. > > > A new > > > > or forming pair may eat spawn after spawn, > then one > > > day > > > > you'll be walking around with a coffee and > looking > > > your > > > > tanks over and there they'll be!  This > almost > > > always > > > > happens on a day that you're never quite > ready for it! > > > > > > > <G> > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > >    > > > >          > > > >        >     > > > >    > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that > > > is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC > > > of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> > > > i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page.  > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to > 25 posts > > > at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be able > > > to > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >      > > >          > > >            > > >    > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45644	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: A Fish Tale

LOL... Reminds me of a few Heaven's Gates / St. Peter jokes I know but they're inappropriate for the group. ;-) Permission to reprint this one on my "Fish Jokes" page on my blog? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A Fish Tale Larry the Lobster and Sam the Clam were old fish-buddies. But one day a terrible tragedy befell them. CLAMBAKE! And they were delicious. So Larry the Lobster and Sam the Clam went swimming up to fish-heaven where fish-St Peter met them at the gate. "Larry the Lobster," he said. "You've been a good lobster all your life. Welcome to fish-heaven." And fish-St Peter gave him his harp, and his halo, and his wings. "But Sam the Clam," he said, "Tsk, tsk, tsk. I'm sorry, you have to go to fish-hell." So the two old friends said their goodbyes and went their separate ways. Half an eternity later, Larry the Lobster began to miss his old pal Sam the Clam so he asked fish-St Peter for a pass. Fish-St Peter thought about it for a few moments and suddenly a digital watch appeared on Larry the Lobster's arm. "OK, you have six hours. But you must keep your harp with you. It's the only thing that will protect you." Larry the Lobster thanked him excitedly and went swimming down to fish-hell. Turned out that Sam the Clam had opened up a club. There was music, there was drinking, there were half-naked lady fishes dancing on the counters! YEE-HA! PARTY TIME!!! But time passed quickly and soon Larry the Lobster's alarm rang. The two old friends said their goodbyes and Larry the Lobster went swimming back up to fish-heaven. But he wasn't making such good time because he'd had a few too many (wink, wink) Shrimp Cocktails... Larry the Lobster slipped through the gates just as fish-St Peter was closing them. "Larry the Lobster!" fish-St Peter exclaimed. "Where have you been? You almost didn't make it back in time. Is that lipstick on your collar? Is that liquor on your breath? And WHERE'S YOUR HARP???" Larry the Lobster, unsteady on his feet, looked at one claw. Nope. Not there. He turned and looked at the other. Nope, not there either. So he shrugged and he sang, "I left my haaaaaaaarp in Sam Clam's discoooooooo..." I can hear you groaning from here... ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45645	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Paradise fish/Lenny

Thanks so much for your trouble Lenny! Exactly what I needed to know and more! Happy Fishes, Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45646	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Discus Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Kai, The best advice I can give you is to go and buy this Book! "Back to Nature Discus" by Dick Au (yes that is his real name) http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Discus-Back-Nature-Dick/dp/3980560554 He also has a book on trophy Discus which I do own but have not had a chance to read. He is a master at breeding discus as well as many many other fish. I have read several discus books and his is the easiest to read. I have been to many of his talks on discus and other fish. He is a crowd favorite at aquarium Societies all over California. He gives talks all over the country as well as judging discus overseas and in the states. "Dick Au (San Francisco, California) has been an active aquarist and discus enthusiast for over 50 years. He credits his ongoing success in raising and breeding beautiful discus to keen observation, patience, and practice rather than relying on measurements and formulae. Dick is an accomplished author. In addition to frequent articles for aquarium magazines, his discus books, “Back to Nature – Guide to Discus” and “Trophy Discus” are consider the most complete guide to discus keeping. He is a veteran speaker and show judge. Most recently, he presented a public seminar on discus keeping at the 2009 Aquarama Show in Singapore." If you can ever make it to one of his talks do so, he is a wealth of information. Sincerely, -Mike Gale To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:13 PM Oooooooooooooooooh, Discus!  I LOVE them! I DROOL at them regularly but they are just too persnickety about how clean their tanks need to be for me.  My favorite bright Siam Yellow ones happen to be on sale for half price at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ Fantasy fishkeeping...  I love browsing their site. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Lenny and Amber, >  > It's been a lot of years since I made my own fish food for my Discus and > have long since lost my old recipe.  But I can tell you this.  >  > Years ago I used Knox Gelatin, a lot of it and probably way more than the > recipe called for.  It did not harm at all to the Discus.  I got to this point from the same thing you are both describing. >  > And again, I fell to always doing the same thing Len just did, the baking of it.  One thing that helped me a lot was spreading it out flat on cookie sheets and baking part way.  When the mixture was partly done and almost solid, score it with a sharp knife or old pizza cutter, and then freeze it.  This made the breaking apart and feeding it easier because you only worked with small squares, a little at a time and had no waste. >  > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 12:33 AM > > That happened to me... actually with > > my last batch that I'm still using but > > I didn't advertise that I couldn't make jello... LOL. > > Ooops... I guess I > > just did. > > > > I did the same thing as you and added more knox gelatin > > thinking that would > > fix it but it didn't for me either.  Finally, not > > wanting to throw this big > > batch away, I poured the entire liquid goo into a big > > baking pan so it was > > about 1/2" thick, added some plain oatmeal (or other > > healthy filler you > > might have on hand) and baked it at 300F for about an hour > > until it got to > > the texture I wanted and it was only about 1/4" > > thick.  Then I let it cool > > and refrigerated the entire pan for an hour.  Sliced > > it into 2" x 2" pieces > > and placed 6 or 8 of the pieces on some aluminum foil, put > > another layer of > > foil, then 6 or 8 more, etc., and then put that stack of > > pieces in the > > freezer and froze them for an hour.  Took them out and > > peeled the > > individually frozen pieces off the foil and placed them all > > in a gallon > > sized zip-loc freezer bag and take out one frozen chip at a > > time and keep it > > in a little used 8 oz. sour cream container in my fridge > > and peel off little > > pieces of the 2" x 2" chip as needed for the fish. > > Each piece lasts me a > > few days and then I take another frozen chip out and > > repeat.  > > > > The top of the baked final product was nice and firm but > > the bottom section > > was a little gooey but held together well in my > > tanks.  When you take out > > the frozen chip, put the baked side down in the fridge > > container and that > > will probably help dry out the slightly gooey side that was > > on the bottom. > > I just thought of this while I was typing this. > > > > The fish still love their new baked gel-food. LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Not so, Jello fish food > > > > Okay so I've never had issues making jello fish food until > > this week. I made > > it on sunday, mixed it all up in the blender into a nice > > gooey mixture, then > > put it in a pot on low, boiled water, added knox gelatin in > > the normal > > amount I've always added (5 packets) mixed the gelatin into > > the mixture, > > added boiling water, warmed the whole mixture up for 5 > > minutes and put it > > into the fridge to solidify. > > Well it didn't solidify. *sigh* > > So today I re-heated the mixture this afternoon, added new > > gelatin (5 more > > packets), boiled water and added it to the now warm > > mixture/gelatin, and > > heated it up for 10 minutes this time to make sure, just in > > case it didn't > > get warm enough last time. > > Well it's still not solidifying :( > > I've done this before, the exact same way the only > > difference this time is > > that I added squash and cabbage to my food mixture, that > > wouldn't make my > > jello food not solidify would it? LOL (I know it sounds > > silly but I just > > cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here and it's very > > frustrating, I > > don't want to throw it all out and start over as it's a > > waste of > > shrimp/food). > > If someone can help, please I need some at this point, > > LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45647	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

Play some Barry White. -----Original Message----- From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 11:43 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Discus   The pair in the 20 gal have laid over and over. I've been very patient. I'm loosing it though. lol The 3 in the 55 gal have just switched females. They have only laid once. The other female and that male laid a few times. I'm still being patient though. lol Pam PS So I need to walk around with some coffee? Now I know whats wrong! lol Patience Girl, Patience! In spite of your very best efforts, they will do what they will do, period. It's best to find out just who is spawning with who. Once you know that, put that pair in the largest tank you have available by themselves. A few sponge filters and wait. A new or forming pair may eat spawn after spawn, then one day you'll be walking around with a coffee and looking your tanks over and there they'll be! This almost always happens on a day that you're never quite ready for it! <G> Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45648	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Discus

Pam, Congrats on being able to breed your Discus, even if you haven't raised any yet. By their being just a little over a year old right now, I might presume that about how long YOU'VE had them -- but not including how long it took Hans to get them up to selling size(?). On average, it generally takes about 18 months for Discus to mature, although some will reach maturity as early as around 15 months. I just haven't heard of Discus maturing at 12 months of age though. BTW, while there are other fine sources of Discus out there, you be hard-pressed to find much better than Hans' fish. I know him personally, and I know all the work he and his staff put into them both in the Netherlands and in Maryland. His fish are top-notch. Getting back to your fish, I hope you're fully aware that a 20 gallon tank is way too small for a pair of Discus -- and fry that you may be raising for several days in the same tank -- not to mention that the breeders need room to feel comfortable in rearing their spawn. This in itself may be one reason why this pair ate their fry, but please be aware that it may sometimes take as many as 20 tries before a pair settles down and gets it right on how to raise their fry without eating them. So, as you see, you DO need patience when playing around with Discus. Your "trio" of Discus in the 55 gallon may well have eaten their spawn as a result of the "odd" (third) fish being in with the pair at the time they spawned (again, they may have eaten the eggs anyway, but this is one cause for them to do so). Discus REQUIRE complete privacy when breeding and even though the presence of another Discus that they've been raised with may not appear to you as upsetting them, a third Discus (ANY other Discus) at this time is cause enough for them to eat their eggs. You need to have this male paired up only with one female at a time, in any one tank. They do not appreciate any company and will demonstrate this "lack of appreciation" by eating the spawn, as they feel pressured to. I notice you've come to realize that you needn't keep the fry with the parents for two weeks. As you've found, not only is this entirely unnecessary, but it gets increasingly riskier as time goes by for the parents to eat the fry -- often because at least one of the parents may want to breed again. IF it is only ONE of the parents that is then at thst time in the mood to spawn, and decides to eat the fry, this may well cause much friction in the relationship between these two fish often with a resultant beating up on the one parent by the other. You do not need to keep the fry with the parents any long than the major portion of (but not including) a week. I pull my Discus fry out after four (4) days -- but NO SOONER. At four days old, Discus fry are then developed quite well enough to take newly hatched brine shrimp -- which I START giving them limitedly towards the end of the second day while still with the parents. While some may not take BBS at this early age, most will be feeding on this -- AND the parents' body slime -- by the end of the third day. By the forth day, they're feeding from both sources, so with removing them at the end of the fourth day and feeding them now only on BBS in their own rearing tank on the fifth day, they will readily consume it will gusto. You may want to reconsider housing the BN Pleco in with the Discus, as it may be a disturbance, but each pair is different and your's may just tolerate this fish without being cause enough for devouring their eggs, but it's something to consider. The thought just occurred to me, only as I haven't seen any mention of it, but I hope you're maintaining your Discus at 86 o for spawning (84 o when not spawning), as these are the temperatures they require. If at all possible, try to dissuade your Discus from spawning on the filter intake, even if you have to wrap the intake with plastic plants to divert their attention from it -- and DO NOT postion a cone near a filter where the outflow back into the tank will wash the male's milt away from the breeding site as fast as he releases it -- resulting in unfertilized eggs. There are mesh overlays for the breeding cones which still allows for the parents to fan the eggs but they cannot quite reach them to eat them. This may help save the eggs to allow for development into hatching and then free-swimming -- BUT, there still no guarantee that the parents won't eat them at that stage, as they start free-swimming. It is worth a try though. If they consistenly do not hatch, it could mean that they are still not quite mature enough -- or it could mean that your water is not quite "pure" (low) enough in TDS (Total Dissolved Solids). Best results for the hatching of Discus eggs occurs when the Conductivity does not exceed much more than 90 Microseimens; most often when your GH does not exceed more than 3.5 dGH, depending on what other salts your water may contain. Keep us posted, and let us know if you feel you may need more help. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45649	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: A Fish Tale

Fine by me, but it's not an original joke. Been around for years. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > LOL... Reminds me of a few Heaven's Gates / St. Peter jokes I know but > they're inappropriate for the group. ;-) > > Permission to reprint this one on my "Fish Jokes" page on my blog? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] A Fish Tale > > Larry the Lobster and Sam the Clam were old fish-buddies. But one day a > terrible tragedy befell them. CLAMBAKE! And they were delicious. > > So Larry the Lobster and Sam the Clam went swimming up to fish-heaven where > fish-St Peter met them at the gate. "Larry the Lobster," he said. "You've > been a good lobster all your life. Welcome to fish-heaven." And fish-St > Peter gave him his harp, and his halo, and his wings. > > "But Sam the Clam," he said, "Tsk, tsk, tsk. I'm sorry, you have to go to > fish-hell." > > So the two old friends said their goodbyes and went their separate ways. > > Half an eternity later, Larry the Lobster began to miss his old pal Sam the > Clam so he asked fish-St Peter for a pass. Fish-St Peter thought about it > for a few moments and suddenly a digital watch appeared on Larry the > Lobster's arm. "OK, you have six hours. But you must keep your harp with > you. It's the only thing that will protect you." > > Larry the Lobster thanked him excitedly and went swimming down to fish-hell. > > Turned out that Sam the Clam had opened up a club. There was music, there > was drinking, there were half-naked lady fishes dancing on the counters! > YEE-HA! PARTY TIME!!! > > But time passed quickly and soon Larry the Lobster's alarm rang. The two > old friends said their goodbyes and Larry the Lobster went swimming back up > to fish-heaven. But he wasn't making such good time because he'd had a few > too many (wink, wink) Shrimp Cocktails... > > Larry the Lobster slipped through the gates just as fish-St Peter was > closing them. > > "Larry the Lobster!" fish-St Peter exclaimed. "Where have you been? You > almost didn't make it back in time. Is that lipstick on your collar? Is > that liquor on your breath? And WHERE'S YOUR HARP???" > > Larry the Lobster, unsteady on his feet, looked at one claw. Nope. Not > there. > > He turned and looked at the other. Nope, not there either. > > So he shrugged and he sang, > > "I left my haaaaaaaarp in Sam Clam's discoooooooo..." > > > > I can hear you groaning from here... > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45650	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

Okay so fish are here and I'm in the middle of acclimating them all (did PWC's first). Looks like everything arrived allive and swimming, so that's good. He did put in some free fish, from what I can tell I got at least 4 free female guppy's, black tails. (Yeah I know I have a ton of guppy's so... ooh, LOL). Oh well, free is free ;) LOL And I got 5 bucks back in shipping! ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45651	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

COOL! I'm looking forward to seeing pictures! :o) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay so fish are here and I'm in the middle of acclimating them all (did > PWC's first). > Looks like everything arrived allive and swimming, so that's good. > He did put in some free fish, from what I can tell I got at least 4 free > female guppy's, black tails. (Yeah I know I have a ton of guppy's so... > ooh, LOL). > Oh well, free is free ;) LOL > And I got 5 bucks back in shipping! ;) > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45652	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles There are thousands, if not millions of different species and variants. Now, if you had the general group, like tetras or cichlids or catfish, etc... but even with that, there could be hundreds, if not thousands of each of those groups of fish. You would have better luck taking pictures of the fish and posting them in an album in this group or your own online album and asking us if we can ID it for you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:46 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles When I go to the LFS and see some exotic new fish, I usually go home and google for fish pics to know the right name for it and read about it to see if it fits into my tnaks and water, especially that the common fish names here are often not related to the names circulated in the internet. Luck is not always on my side to find the right photo, otherwise I would spend hours googling. Are there websites that list the photos rather than Name/species? Tristan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: A Fish Tale

Well, if I get sued, I'll say, "Kai told me it was OK!" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A Fish Tale Fine by me, but it's not an original joke. Been around for years. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > LOL... Reminds me of a few Heaven's Gates / St. Peter jokes I know > but they're inappropriate for the group. ;-) > > Permission to reprint this one on my "Fish Jokes" page on my blog? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] A Fish Tale > > Larry the Lobster and Sam the Clam were old fish-buddies. But one day > a terrible tragedy befell them. CLAMBAKE! And they were delicious. > > So Larry the Lobster and Sam the Clam went swimming up to fish-heaven > where fish-St Peter met them at the gate. "Larry the Lobster," he > said. "You've been a good lobster all your life. Welcome to > fish-heaven." And fish-St Peter gave him his harp, and his halo, and his wings. > > "But Sam the Clam," he said, "Tsk, tsk, tsk. I'm sorry, you have to > go to fish-hell." > > So the two old friends said their goodbyes and went their separate ways. > > Half an eternity later, Larry the Lobster began to miss his old pal > Sam the Clam so he asked fish-St Peter for a pass. Fish-St Peter > thought about it for a few moments and suddenly a digital watch > appeared on Larry the Lobster's arm. "OK, you have six hours. But > you must keep your harp with you. It's the only thing that will protect you." > > Larry the Lobster thanked him excitedly and went swimming down to fish-hell. > > Turned out that Sam the Clam had opened up a club. There was music, > there was drinking, there were half-naked lady fishes dancing on the counters! > YEE-HA! PARTY TIME!!! > > But time passed quickly and soon Larry the Lobster's alarm rang. The > two old friends said their goodbyes and Larry the Lobster went > swimming back up to fish-heaven. But he wasn't making such good time > because he'd had a few too many (wink, wink) Shrimp Cocktails... > > Larry the Lobster slipped through the gates just as fish-St Peter was > closing them. > > "Larry the Lobster!" fish-St Peter exclaimed. "Where have you been? > You almost didn't make it back in time. Is that lipstick on your > collar? Is that liquor on your breath? And WHERE'S YOUR HARP???" > > Larry the Lobster, unsteady on his feet, looked at one claw. Nope. > Not there. > > He turned and looked at the other. Nope, not there either. > > So he shrugged and he sang, > > "I left my haaaaaaaarp in Sam Clam's discoooooooo..." > > > > I can hear you groaning from here... > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45654	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

I don't think LFS intentionally give out misinformation -- but sometimes they do. Case in point: I bought a cute little upside down catfish from Walmart a few years ago. Their fish department still has the little placard above the tank that says it's a community fish that grows to 3-4 inches. Years later, Nessie the Tank Monster is 12" long, has eaten a long succession of tank-mates, and has been identified as a "beautiful but vicious" Burmese Upside Down Catfish (Mystus leucophasis.) Yeah right, community fish. 3-4 inches. HA! ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > > > There are thousands, if not millions of different species and variants. > Now, if you had the general group, like tetras or cichlids or catfish, > etc... but even with that, there could be hundreds, if not thousands of each > of those groups of fish. > > You would have better luck taking pictures of the fish and posting them in > an album in this group or your own online album and asking us if we can ID > it for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > When I go to the LFS and see some exotic new fish, I usually go home and > google for fish pics to know the right name for it and read about it to see > if it fits into my tnaks and water, especially that the common fish names > here are often not related to the names circulated in the internet. Luck is > not always on my side to find the right photo, otherwise I would spend hours > googling. > > Are there websites that list the photos rather than Name/species? > > Tristan > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45655	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Blue rams take two

Hi Everyone - Several weeks ago my blue rams spawned and the fry were eaten as I described to the group at the time. Now they have spawned again and there are loads of eggs on their spawning rock. They are at the fanning stage, no wrigglers yet. This time I would like to move their rock out into a ten g that is all cycled and planted but no fish. Please assure me that I can do this safely: When the eggs start wriggling I should move the rock? Since the parents eat the fry, I can't move the parents. Is this OK? The fry can fend for themselves with babybrine and fry foods? I have a sponge for the HOB... Does the temp need to be higher than 78? Is there anything else for the ten g? Thank you all... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45656	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

I am seeing that for the first week the BBS will be too big for the fry to eat, so I am wondering about liquid fry food - can someone recommend a good brand of that so I can pick it up in the next couple of days? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hi Everyone - > > Several weeks ago my blue rams spawned and the fry were eaten as I > described to the group at the time. > > Now they have spawned again and there are loads of eggs on their > spawning rock. They are at the fanning stage, no wrigglers yet. > > This time I would like to move their rock out into a ten g that is > all cycled and planted but no fish. > > Please assure me that I can do this safely: > > When the eggs start wriggling I should move the rock? Since the > parents eat the fry, I can't move the parents. Is this OK? The fry > can fend for themselves with babybrine and fry foods? > > I have a sponge for the HOB... > > Does the temp need to be higher than 78? > > Is there anything else for the ten g? > > Thank you all... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45657	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Hi Lainey,   I'm afraid nobody can "assure you".  The reason is simple enough.  None of us has any idea of what they fish will do when you remove their eggs.  They may do nothing at first and then fight because they think one or the other one ate the eggs.  The very best thing is to let the parents have their own way at least at first.    If all else fails, remove the other fish from the tank without causing to much kayos if you can.  If you should still lose these eggs I would put the parents in a separate spawning tank, 10 or 20-gallon if you have one.  When they spawn again, remove both parents back to their original or community tank where you have them now.  Do this both at the same time. This is what I would do in your situation.   Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 8:34 PM Hi Everyone - Several weeks ago my blue rams spawned and the fry were eaten as I  described to the group at the time. Now they have spawned again and there are loads of eggs on their  spawning rock. They are at the fanning stage, no wrigglers yet. This time I would like to move their rock out into a ten g that is  all cycled and planted but no fish. Please assure me that I can do this safely: When the eggs start wriggling I should move the rock? Since the  parents eat the fry, I can't move the parents. Is this OK? The fry  can fend for themselves with babybrine and fry foods? I have a sponge for the HOB... Does the temp need to be higher than 78? Is there anything else for the ten g? Thank you all... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45658	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Thanks, Bill - I thought Ray advised me last time this happened that next time I should remove the rock to the ten g. I may have misunderstood, but that was what I thought was the best plan given my situation. I thought it best to leave the parents with their normal tank (37g) where they have their spawning rock, and then simply remove the rock with the eggs before the parents and other fish eat the wrigglers. It's not a practical option to remove fish from that tank as it is densely planted. If the parents fight when I remove the rock, I can separate them as I have other community tanks. My other option is simply to do nothing, but I do believe the fry will be eaten as they were before. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:54 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > I'm afraid nobody can "assure you". The reason is simple enough. > None of us > has any idea of what they fish will do when you remove their eggs. > They may do nothing at first and then fight because they think one > or the other one ate the eggs. The very best thing is to let the > parents have their own way at least at first. > > If all else fails, remove the other fish from the tank without > causing to much kayos if you can. If you should still lose these > eggs I would put the parents in a separate spawning tank, 10 or 20- > gallon if you have one. When they spawn again, remove both parents > back to their original or community tank where you have them now. > Do this both at the same time. > This is what I would do in your situation. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 8:34 PM > > Hi Everyone - > > Several weeks ago my blue rams spawned and the fry were eaten as I > described to the group at the time. > > Now they have spawned again and there are loads of eggs on their > spawning rock. They are at the fanning stage, no wrigglers yet. > > This time I would like to move their rock out into a ten g that is > all cycled and planted but no fish. > > Please assure me that I can do this safely: > > When the eggs start wriggling I should move the rock? Since the > parents eat the fry, I can't move the parents. Is this OK? The fry > can fend for themselves with babybrine and fry foods? > > I have a sponge for the HOB... > > Does the temp need to be higher than 78? > > Is there anything else for the ten g? > > Thank you all... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45659	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Just to share what I just won ;) LOL

I think I can manage pictures. Some of the new fish are TINY, LOL. I can't tell if the botia kubotai are eating any of my smaller pest snails yet or not, so far they seem to mostly be exploring the 125 gallon tank. I put most of the new hillstream loaches upstairs, I want to eventually move the ones in the 125 gallon upstairs, but they are still very small babies and I'd have to find them to catch them first ;) LOL. So all the sewellia lineolata's are in the 125 gallon tank. I put all the gastromyzin species (which are tiny, maybe an inch at the most) upstairs in my 55 gallon and I put the spotted sewellia lineolata with them. Out of all the hillstream loaches the biggest of them is the spotted sewellia lineolata, it gets up to 3.5 inches I believe, the rest don't get bigger than 2.5. The guppy's went in with all my others, since one of the gastromyzin was in with it (not sure why, must've scooped guppy's out with it when he was netting the other fish, LOL). One odd thing I noticed was that the spotted sewellia lineolata seems to really not be very shy (everything I've read about them says they are pretty shy), this one hangs out on the front glass of the tank and lets mystery snails literally walk on top of him, LOL. He's a cute little male though, I'm hoping to get more spotted sewellia's in the future but they are one of the most expensive hillstream loaches (hard to find, typically sell for $15 each). Will try to get some pictures tonight, they may not be settled into the tanks enough for me to get very good pics though. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > COOL! I'm looking forward to seeing pictures! :o) > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Okay so fish are here and I'm in the middle of acclimating them all > (did > > PWC's first). > > Looks like everything arrived allive and swimming, so that's good. > > He did put in some free fish, from what I can tell I got at least 4 > free > > female guppy's, black tails. (Yeah I know I have a ton of guppy's so... > > ooh, LOL). > > Oh well, free is free ;) LOL > > And I got 5 bucks back in shipping! ;) > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45660	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

OK then my advice is don’t buy fish at Walmart or anywhere else where they can’t provide you the name of the fish. Or if you do, don’t worry about trying to ID it because it could be anything and you will never be sure. That could be one reason the vendor cannot name the fish, it may be a hybrid. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles I don't think LFS intentionally give out misinformation -- but sometimes they do. Case in point: I bought a cute little upside down catfish from Walmart a few years ago. Their fish department still has the little placard above the tank that says it's a community fish that grows to 3-4 inches. Years later, Nessie the Tank Monster is 12" long, has eaten a long succession of tank-mates, and has been identified as a "beautiful but vicious" Burmese Upside Down Catfish (Mystus leucophasis.) Yeah right, community fish. 3-4 inches. HA! ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > > > There are thousands, if not millions of different species and variants. > Now, if you had the general group, like tetras or cichlids or catfish, > etc... but even with that, there could be hundreds, if not thousands of each > of those groups of fish. > > You would have better luck taking pictures of the fish and posting them in > an album in this group or your own online album and asking us if we can ID > it for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > When I go to the LFS and see some exotic new fish, I usually go home and > google for fish pics to know the right name for it and read about it to see > if it fits into my tnaks and water, especially that the common fish names > here are often not related to the names circulated in the internet. Luck is > not always on my side to find the right photo, otherwise I would spend hours > googling. > > Are there websites that list the photos rather than Name/species? > > Tristan > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45661	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

Sometimes the LFS just guess at the names by looking at their pictures they have on hand (such as a book or an order book with pictures). I've seen my LFS flip through their order book and "guess" at what fish they have, LOL. Makes me want to say, "Don't you know what you order before it gets here? Seems like you'd have a list of what you ordered, or a list in the boxes so you know what's in the bags when you start acclimating them" LOL Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > OK then my advice is don’t buy fish at Walmart…or anywhere else where they > can’t provide you the name of the fish. Or if you do, don’t worry about > trying to ID it because it could be anything and you will never be sure. > That could be one reason the vendor cannot name the fish, it may be a > hybrid. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles > > I don't think LFS intentionally give out misinformation -- but sometimes > they do. > > Case in point: I bought a cute little upside down catfish from Walmart > a few > years ago. Their fish department still has the little placard above > the tank > that says it's a community fish that grows to 3-4 inches. Years later, > Nessie the Tank Monster is 12" long, has eaten a long succession of > tank-mates, and has been identified as a "beautiful but vicious" Burmese > Upside Down Catfish (Mystus leucophasis.) > > Yeah right, community fish. 3-4 inches. HA! > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com, > Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > > > > > > > > > There are thousands, if not millions of different species and variants. > > Now, if you had the general group, like tetras or cichlids or catfish, > > etc... but even with that, there could be hundreds, if not thousands of > each > > of those groups of fish. > > > > You would have better luck taking pictures of the fish and posting > them in > > an album in this group or your own online album and asking us if we > can ID > > it for you. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > When I go to the LFS and see some exotic new fish, I usually go home and > > google for fish pics to know the right name for it and read about it to > see > > if it fits into my tnaks and water, especially that the common fish > names > > here are often not related to the names circulated in the internet. Luck > is > > not always on my side to find the right photo, otherwise I would spend > hours > > googling. > > > > Are there websites that list the photos rather than Name/species? > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45662	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

I used to go to the local wholesaler and there were occasionally contaminants in the tanks of wild caught fish. Those of us that went there would look specifically for the contaminants as they may have been something rare or hard to come by. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 6:56 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles Sometimes the LFS just guess at the names by looking at their pictures they have on hand (such as a book or an order book with pictures). I've seen my LFS flip through their order book and "guess" at what fish they have, LOL. Makes me want to say, "Don't you know what you order before it gets here? Seems like you'd have a list of what you ordered, or a list in the boxes so you know what's in the bags when you start acclimating them" LOL Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > OK then my advice is don’t buy fish at Walmart…or anywhere else where they > can’t provide you the name of the fish. Or if you do, don’t worry about > trying to ID it because it could be anything and you will never be sure. > That could be one reason the vendor cannot name the fish, it may be a > hybrid. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles > > I don't think LFS intentionally give out misinformation -- but sometimes > they do. > > Case in point: I bought a cute little upside down catfish from Walmart > a few > years ago. Their fish department still has the little placard above > the tank > that says it's a community fish that grows to 3-4 inches. Years later, > Nessie the Tank Monster is 12" long, has eaten a long succession of > tank-mates, and has been identified as a "beautiful but vicious" Burmese > Upside Down Catfish (Mystus leucophasis.) > > Yeah right, community fish. 3-4 inches. HA! > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com, > Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > > > > > > > > > There are thousands, if not millions of different species and variants. > > Now, if you had the general group, like tetras or cichlids or catfish, > > etc... but even with that, there could be hundreds, if not thousands of > each > > of those groups of fish. > > > > You would have better luck taking pictures of the fish and posting > them in > > an album in this group or your own online album and asking us if we > can ID > > it for you. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:46 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > When I go to the LFS and see some exotic new fish, I usually go home and > > google for fish pics to know the right name for it and read about it to > see > > if it fits into my tnaks and water, especially that the common fish > names > > here are often not related to the names circulated in the internet. Luck > is > > not always on my side to find the right photo, otherwise I would spend > hours > > googling. > > > > Are there websites that list the photos rather than Name/species? > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

I just got 2 contaminants, they show up in gastromyzon scitulus shipments, the seller called them gastromyzon zibrinus. I wish I had a local wholesaler to check out :( And don't be getting any ideas about ME being the local wholesaler ;) LOL Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > I used to go to the local wholesaler and there were occasionally > contaminants in the tanks of wild caught fish. Those of us that went > there would look specifically for the contaminants as they may have > been something rare or hard to come by. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 6:56 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles > > Sometimes the LFS just guess at the names by looking at their pictures > they have on hand (such as a book or an order book with pictures). I've > seen my LFS flip through their order book and "guess" at what fish they > have, LOL. > Makes me want to say, "Don't you know what you order before it gets > here? Seems like you'd have a list of what you ordered, or a list in > the > boxes so you know what's in the bags when you start acclimating them" > LOL > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > OK then my advice is don’t buy fish at Walmart…or anywhere else where > they > > can’t provide you the name of the fish. Or if you do, don’t worry > about > > trying to ID it because it could be anything and you will never be > sure. > > That could be one reason the vendor cannot name the fish, it may be a > > hybrid. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles > > > > I don't think LFS intentionally give out misinformation -- but > sometimes > > they do. > > > > Case in point: I bought a cute little upside down catfish from > Walmart > > a few > > years ago. Their fish department still has the little placard above > > the tank > > that says it's a community fish that grows to 3-4 inches. Years later, > > Nessie the Tank Monster is 12" long, has eaten a long succession of > > tank-mates, and has been identified as a "beautiful but vicious" > Burmese > > Upside Down Catfish (Mystus leucophasis.) > > > > Yeah right, community fish. 3-4 inches. HA! > > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com, > > Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > > > Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:05 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are thousands, if not millions of different species and > variants. > > > Now, if you had the general group, like tetras or cichlids or > catfish, > > > etc... but even with that, there could be hundreds, if not > thousands of > > each > > > of those groups of fish. > > > > > > You would have better luck taking pictures of the fish and posting > > them in > > > an album in this group or your own online album and asking us if we > > can ID > > > it for you. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:46 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > > > When I go to the LFS and see some exotic new fish, I usually go > home and > > > google for fish pics to know the right name for it and read about > it to > > see > > > if it fits into my tnaks and water, especially that the common fish > > names > > > here are often not related to the names circulated in the internet. > Luck > > is > > > not always on my side to find the right photo, otherwise I would > spend > > hours > > > googling. > > > > > > Are there websites that list the photos rather than Name/species? > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45664	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Hi again Lainey, No, not at all, Ray is right. It's just that I did not think you had that many tanks to work with.  If you remove just the rock with the eggs to a 10-gallon tank that's fine.  If the parent's still fight and you can separate by using other tanks, great.   Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 8:59 PM > Thanks, Bill - > > I thought Ray advised me last time this happened that next > time I  > should remove the rock to the ten g. I may have > misunderstood, but  > that was what I thought was the best plan given my > situation. I  > thought it best to leave the parents with their normal tank > (37g)  > where they have their spawning rock, and then simply remove > the rock  > with the eggs before the parents and other fish eat the > wrigglers.  > It's not a practical option to remove fish from that tank > as it is  > densely planted. If the parents fight when I remove the > rock, I can  > separate them as I have other community tanks. > > My other option is simply to do nothing, but I do believe > the fry  > will be eaten as they were before. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:54 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > I'm afraid nobody can "assure you".  The reason > is simple enough.    > > None of us > > has any idea of what they fish will do when you remove > their eggs.    > > They may do nothing at first and then fight because > they think one  > > or the other one ate the eggs.  The very best > thing is to let the  > > parents have their own way at least at first. > > > > If all else fails, remove the other fish from the tank > without  > > causing to much kayos if you can.  If you should > still lose these  > > eggs I would put the parents in a separate spawning > tank, 10 or 20- > > gallon if you have one.  When they spawn again, > remove both parents  > > back to their original or community tank where you > have them now.    > > Do this both at the same time. > > This is what I would do in your situation. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 8:34 PM > > > > Hi Everyone - > > > > Several weeks ago my blue rams spawned and the fry > were eaten as I > > described to the group at the time. > > > > Now they have spawned again and there are loads of > eggs on their > > spawning rock. They are at the fanning stage, no > wrigglers yet. > > > > This time I would like to move their rock out into a > ten g that is > > all cycled and planted but no fish. > > > > Please assure me that I can do this safely: > > > > When the eggs start wriggling I should move the rock? > Since the > > parents eat the fry, I can't move the parents. Is this > OK? The fry > > can fend for themselves with babybrine and fry foods? > > > > I have a sponge for the HOB... > > > > Does the temp need to be higher than 78? > > > > Is there anything else for the ten g? > > > > Thank you all... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45665	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Lainey, You would do well to heed what Bill is telling you about the parents if you were to remove the eggs. You may well end up with one member of the pair dead or at the very least severely injured. Besides, moving the eggs to an established, planted tank may seem all well and good, but the fry's well being will now depend directly on what type of substrate you're using. You've not given any kind of description of the "spawning rock" -- whether it's a flat surface or a much rounder object. Once the fry hatch they will have the tendency to fall off the rock (especially if this is a rounded surface), and onto the substrate where the physical characteristics of it will dictate their survival. Without the parents being available to retrieve them, if your gravel is large enough to permit the wrigglers to fall down between the grains, they will be lost not able to extracate themselves when it's time for them to become free-swimming. A good choice of a smaller first food would be microworms if you could gain access to a culture. San Francisco Bay brine shrimp eggs affords a much smaller BBS nauplii when first hatched, as opposed to the Utah (Salt Lake) brine shrimp. While the Ram fry still may not be able to take this immediately, it can be offered much sooner than the week you describe. In the meantime, you may want to obtain a small can of APR (Artificial Plankton & Rotifer) from your LFS or a supplier of it (such as Ken's Fish or Jehmco) in the event your LFS does not carry it. As for temperature, Rams enjoy (require) a temperature similar to that of Discus -- with a slight bit of flexibility. The fry are best raised between 83 o and 86 o F (and the adults should preferably be maintained at least at 80 o or above, except when spawning when the temperature needs to be raised. BTW, whenever removing a spawning surface with a deposit of eggs, a similar (as similar as possible) rock should (always) immediately be replaced in the location that the spawning rock was removed from, and the lights should then be turned out. Note, such rock switching should preferably only be performed in the evening after dusk. If all does not go well this time with having the parents look after them, you may want to then consider removing the eggs the next time around when you're better prepared. As for getting into any reasons why your pair may have eaten the eggs the first time, if you care to know to eliminate these possible causes, you may want to give a better description of your present set up (other fish, lighting of the tank, position of the tank regarding traffic/people walking by, etc.) . We may be better able to assist you in eliminating their causes of eating the eggs. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45666	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Paradise fish

I did not have a chance to get to this last night, so here is a bit for you to chew on. Figure on keeping one paradise fish per tank, unless you have a really large tank. It appears that the paradise fish has a radius it protects of approx. 18-24" from its "home base". So, even with a 4' tank, you may well have some problems, because the fish may not call a corner of the tank "home". I never would have determined this but for the fact I bought a shipping bag of about 50 paradise fish, males and females, and threw them in a pond for the summer. Walking around the pond, you would see a male guarding its territory every 3-4". One guy had it a bit better. He had found the bog area, which was mostly separated from the rest of the pond but for a relatively small opening to the main pond. He had that whole area as his own and guarded an area around the entrance that was about 18" in radius. The females kept out more toward the center of the pond, and when they swam by the male territories, the male would come out and display for them, as well as threaten their neighbors. The females were not as aggressive, and more likely to spend some time in a group. They definitely do not get along with goldfish. The goldfish were in the pond first, and when the paradise fish moved into the neighborhood, the goldfish were terrorized by the paradise fish, and I lost some goldfish. I had a ton to sell at the end of the season from the spawning that occurred over the summer. I also showed some of the males, and no one had ever seen paradise fish with extensions like those fish had. They were extraordinarily long for paradise fish. Over the winter, I discovered I could only keep one male per tank otherwise they would beat up each other. However, I could keep a few females together. During the summer, they were not fed, per se. Every few days, I would throw some dry food into the pond, which went largely ignored. During the winter, they were fed flake, and other dried foods, some homemade food, and a little live food. They also lost some of the vivid colors they had during their days in the pond. Need more? Just ask. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rosette55@... Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Paradise fish Hello, would someone please share their experience/knowledge of Paradise fish? Asking for personal replies instead of links because my WEBTV system won't go to links anymore. Thanks, Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45667	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

heh heh heh... I think you already know my thoughts Amber. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 7:19 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles   I just got 2 contaminants, they show up in gastromyzon scitulus shipments, the seller called them gastromyzon zibrinus. I wish I had a local wholesaler to check out :( And don't be getting any ideas about ME being the local wholesaler ;) LOL Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > I used to go to the local wholesaler and there were occasionally > contaminants in the tanks of wild caught fish. Those of us that went > there would look specifically for the contaminants as they may have > been something rare or hard to come by. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 6:56 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles > > Sometimes the LFS just guess at the names by looking at their pictures > they have on hand (such as a book or an order book with pictures). I've > seen my LFS flip through their order book and "guess" at what fish they > have, LOL. > Makes me want to say, "Don't you know what you order before it gets > here? Seems like you'd have a list of what you ordered, or a list in > the > boxes so you know what's in the bags when you start acclimating them" > LOL > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > OK then my advice is don’t buy fish at Walmart…or anywhere else where > they > > can’t provide you the name of the fish. Or if you do, don’t worry > about > > trying to ID it because it could be anything and you will never be > sure. > > That could be one reason the vendor cannot name the fish, it may be a > > hybrid. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:14 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles > > > > I don't think LFS intentionally give out misinformation -- but > sometimes > > they do. > > > > Case in point: I bought a cute little upside down catfish from > Walmart > > a few > > years ago. Their fish department still has the little placard above > > the tank > > that says it's a community fish that grows to 3-4 inches. Years later, > > Nessie the Tank Monster is 12" long, has eaten a long succession of > > tank-mates, and has been identified as a "beautiful but vicious" > Burmese > > Upside Down Catfish (Mystus leucophasis.) > > > > Yeah right, community fish. 3-4 inches. HA! > > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com, > > Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > > > Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:05 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are thousands, if not millions of different species and > variants. > > > Now, if you had the general group, like tetras or cichlids or > catfish, > > > etc... but even with that, there could be hundreds, if not > thousands of > > each > > > of those groups of fish. > > > > > > You would have better luck taking pictures of the fish and posting > > them in > > > an album in this group or your own online album and asking us if we > > can ID > > > it for you. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > blogspot.com> blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:46 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > > > > > When I go to the LFS and see some exotic new fish, I usually go > home and > > > google for fish pics to know the right name for it and read about > it to > > see > > > if it fits into my tnaks and water, especially that the common fish > > names > > > here are often not related to the names circulated in the internet. > Luck > > is > > > not always on my side to find the right photo, otherwise I would > spend > > hours > > > googling. > > > > > > Are there websites that list the photos rather than Name/species? > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45668	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Lainey, Noticing in your latest post, that you apparently have the Rams breeding in a community tank with other fish, even if the parents weren't to eat the eggs, the other fish would no doubt eat the fry when they become free swimming -- or sooner, eat the eggs depending on the size of these other fish and their ability to overwhelm the parents. As a reminder, by removing the spawning rock with eggs, you will be inviting a possible conflict between the two parents. I did also mention you should replace it with another similar rock if at all possible. You did not previously mention your future fry rearing tank as being a planted one the last time they spawn. As long as you can supply the spawn with a bare bottom in an area extending out several inches (as wide as possible) in all directions from the rock, and are prepared for possible battling between the parents with preparation to separate them fast if it becomes necessary, you may then give it a try moving this rock while its dark. You'll need to look into getting the right first foods for the fry as soon as you can, but you'll have about 7 days to obtain it before the fry will free-swim. If you have any on hand, the addition of either Kordon's Acriflavine or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus Cure to the hatching container is often a benefit in preventing extensive fungusing of the eggs. Once hatched, small PWC's can be used to remove most of it, or a carbon filter can temporarily be used until the fry free-swim. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45669	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Hi, Hi again Lainey------------------more?   What we are trying to tell you is this.  First if you must do so, move the fry under the conditions Ray has just outlined for you.  Next, the ten-gallon tank your using, put as much water from the PARENTS tank as you can spare into it.  This fry tank should be up in temperature as Ray just told you and completely stripped of everything but the rock they spawned from.  ADD a sponge filter or so if you have, and if not, buy right away.  No power filters at all.   Now for the parents, separate them ONLY if they fight, if they don't, do not move them.  Rams do not like being moved at all so only do this as a last result.  I had 9, I lost 8, all through problems with the tanks not the Rams, but what killed them was not the problem.  The problem was in moving them at all.  They just do not respond well to it and I even used a plastic container to do it and not a net.  As you know, Rams, like any Cichlid, love to eat.  That's the first clue you will get that something is wrong-------------they won't!   Anything else, please ask and good luck to you!  I'm here in PA completely green with envy, not algae!  Enjoy and please keep us posted, won't you?   Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:35 PM Lainey, You would do well to heed what Bill is telling you about the parents if you were to remove the eggs.  You may well end up with one member of the pair dead or at the very least severely injured.  Besides, moving the eggs to an established, planted tank may seem all well and good, but the fry's well being will now depend directly on what type of substrate you're using.  You've not given any kind of description of the "spawning rock" -- whether it's a flat surface or a much rounder object.  Once the fry hatch they will have the tendency to fall off the rock (especially if this is a rounded surface), and onto the substrate where the physical characteristics of it will dictate their survival.  Without the parents being available to retrieve them, if your gravel is large enough to permit the wrigglers to fall down between the grains, they will be lost not able to extracate themselves when it's time for them to become free-swimming. A good choice of a smaller first food would be microworms if you could gain access to a culture.  San Francisco Bay brine shrimp eggs affords a much smaller BBS nauplii when first hatched, as opposed to the Utah (Salt Lake) brine shrimp.  While the Ram fry still may not be able to take this immediately, it can be offered much sooner than the week you describe.  In the meantime, you may want to obtain a small can of APR (Artificial Plankton & Rotifer) from your LFS or a supplier of it (such as Ken's Fish or Jehmco) in the event your LFS does not carry it. As for temperature, Rams enjoy (require) a temperature similar to that of Discus -- with a slight bit of flexibility.  The fry are best raised between 83 o and 86 o F (and the adults should preferably be maintained at least at 80 o or above, except when spawning when the temperature needs to be raised.. BTW, whenever removing a spawning surface with a deposit of eggs, a similar (as similar as possible) rock should (always) immediately be replaced in the location that the spawning rock was removed from, and the lights should then be turned out.  Note, such rock switching should preferably only be performed in the evening after dusk.  If all does not go well this time with having the parents look after them, you may want to then consider removing the eggs the next time around when you're better prepared.  As for getting into any reasons why your pair may have eaten the eggs the first time, if you care to know to eliminate these possible causes, you may want to give a better description of your present set up (other fish, lighting of the tank, position of the tank regarding traffic/people walking by, etc.) .  We may be better able to assist you in eliminating their causes of eating the eggs.  Ray </HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45670	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

Donna, There are many reasons for this from the shop personnel not knowing their fish to someone changing the name of a fish to make it more saleable or pricier because no one has ever heard the name before. If, throughout the distribution chain, they were to use the scientific name, it would make things a lot easier for us, but, the great unwashed masses think that scientific names are just lo, like, difficult, um, to, you know, like understand. There is a volume, published every few years, that lists all the accepted, by science, common names of fish, along with the scientific name of the fish the name is applied to. However, it is really only the scientists that use this listing. If it were in wider use then it may be a bit easier to ID a fish by common name. If I may pull another thread into this discussion, someone yesterday asked about the paradise fish. I've seen in, in recent years, being sold as paradise gourami. Outside of the fact that it is not a gourami (and neither are most of those labeled so in the hobby, why change the common name from paradise fish to paradise gourami? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45671	From: William M	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

I used to work in a large pet shop where it was not uncommon to get close to 100 boxes of fish at a time. I had the invoice and would go from the invoice to the bags to make sure of which fish that I had in what tanks. Sometimes I was the only one putting the fish away and other times I would have one or two people to help me out. When I had help I would take the invoice and get the right name to the fish and tell the helper(s) which tank to float them in until I could come back to release them. On some of the wholesalers , I would request that they put the names on the bags to help make it easier to ID the fish. But by getting fish from two or more different wholesalers, we would wind up sometimes with the same fish under two or more different names.Now most large box pet shops do not hire people that know much about fish and even less about their names, which brings about much confusion. The clerks will tell somebody anything just to make a sales even is the fish in known to be a fish that should not be sold to the novice aquarist.Case in point, clerks that say that an Oscar will be alright in a 10 gallon tank and that it will only grow to the tanks size. Or even worse say that the fancy guppies will go in good with the Oscar (yes they will go into the Oscar really well). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45672	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

Hi Steve, In your first paragraph you mention changing the name of fish to make them more saleable. I had a club member at our recent auction with a fish that we returned to her as we do not allow hybrids. She told me that the store they got the fish from told her it was rare and gave it some weird name I had never even heard of. It was an Mbuna Peacock hybrid. They sounded a bit cross that he had sold them a hybrid and did not tell them it was a hybrid. Made up names. Made up fish.(hybrids) Caveat emptor. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 8:16 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles   Donna, There are many reasons for this from the shop personnel not knowing their fish to someone changing the name of a fish to make it more saleable or pricier because no one has ever heard the name before. If, throughout the distribution chain, they were to use the scientific name, it would make things a lot easier for us, but, the great unwashed masses think that scientific names are just lo, like, difficult, um, to, you know, like understand. There is a volume, published every few years, that lists all the accepted, by science, common names of fish, along with the scientific name of the fish the name is applied to. However, it is really only the scientists that use this listing. If it were in wider use then it may be a bit easier to ID a fish by common name. If I may pull another thread into this discussion, someone yesterday asked about the paradise fish. I've seen in, in recent years, being sold as paradise gourami. Outside of the fact that it is not a gourami (and neither are most of those labeled so in the hobby, why change the common name from paradise fish to paradise gourami? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45673	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Ray and Bill - 1. Can I use a bare bottom 5g for the fry? Is that too small? The ten g has tons of gravel and is planted, so not a good option. 2. If the pair fights, can I put one of them in a net brooder in the same tank they're in now? By a net brooder I mean a mesh box that hangs on the side of the tank. 3. I keep reading that the critical time for feeding is the first two or three days after they free swim. This is when they can't have the BBS. I do have the San Fran Bay brine hatching eggs. Ray, are you saying I could use these eggs for hatching and they would be small enough for this critical window when the mouths are so tiny? My closest LFS is 1.5 hrs so it would be nice if I don't have to go. I'm sure I'll have more questions later if I don't get completely overwhelmed and decide to just leave things be! Thanks for all the feedback. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 13, 2010, at 11:00 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Noticing in your latest post, that you apparently have the > Rams > breeding in a community tank with other fish, even if the parents > weren't to > eat the eggs, the other fish would no doubt eat the fry when they > become free > swimming -- or sooner, eat the eggs depending on the size of these > other > fish and their ability to overwhelm the parents. As a reminder, by > removing > the spawning rock with eggs, you will be inviting a possible > conflict between > the two parents. I did also mention you should replace it with another > similar rock if at all possible. You did not previously mention > your future > fry rearing tank as being a planted one the last time they spawn. > > As long as you can supply the spawn with a bare bottom in an area > extending > out several inches (as wide as possible) in all directions from the > rock, > and are prepared for possible battling between the parents with > preparation > to separate them fast if it becomes necessary, you may then give it > a try > moving this rock while its dark. You'll need to look into getting > the right > first foods for the fry as soon as you can, but you'll have about 7 > days to > obtain it before the fry will free-swim. If you have any on hand, the > addition of either Kordon's Acriflavine or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus > Cure to the > hatching container is often a benefit in preventing extensive > fungusing of the > eggs. Once hatched, small PWC's can be used to remove most of it, > or a carbon > filter can temporarily be used until the fry free-swim. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45674	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Yes Lainey,   You can use the 5 but remember to fill it ONLY with water from the parents tank and at the temps Ray gave you.   Moving the parents is a tough choice.  Putting them in separate tanks is best and as soon as you see a problem.  Remember what I told you moving them at all is a real train wreck!  You may get away with it and they may throw a fit, stop eating and die.  Rams are very delicate in this respect.  They just don't do well being moved but if they start fighting, you have no choice.  If you must move or separate them at all, I would move the male if it comes to it.   Bill --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 11:44 PM Ray and Bill - 1. Can I use a bare bottom 5g for the fry? Is that too small? The ten  g has tons of gravel and is planted, so not a good option. 2. If the pair fights, can I put one of them in a net brooder in the  same tank they're in now? By a net brooder I mean a mesh box that  hangs on the side of the tank. 3. I keep reading that the critical time for feeding is the first two  or three days after they free swim. This is when they can't have the  BBS. I do have the San Fran Bay brine hatching eggs. Ray, are you  saying I could use these eggs for hatching and they would be small  enough for this critical window when the mouths are so tiny? My  closest LFS is 1.5 hrs so it would be nice if I don't have to go. I'm sure I'll have more questions later if I don't get completely  overwhelmed and decide to just leave things be! Thanks for all the feedback. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 13, 2010, at 11:00 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Noticing in your latest post, that you apparently have the  > Rams > breeding in a community tank with other fish, even if the parents  > weren't to > eat the eggs, the other fish would no doubt eat the fry when they  > become free > swimming -- or sooner, eat the eggs depending on the size of these  > other > fish and their ability to overwhelm the parents. As a reminder, by  > removing > the spawning rock with eggs, you will be inviting a possible  > conflict between > the two parents. I did also mention you should replace it with another > similar rock if at all possible. You did not previously mention  > your future > fry rearing tank as being a planted one the last time they spawn. > > As long as you can supply the spawn with a bare bottom in an area  > extending > out several inches (as wide as possible) in all directions from the  > rock, > and are prepared for possible battling between the parents with  > preparation > to separate them fast if it becomes necessary, you may then give it  > a try > moving this rock while its dark. You'll need to look into getting  > the right > first foods for the fry as soon as you can, but you'll have about 7  > days to > obtain it before the fry will free-swim. If you have any on hand, the > addition of either Kordon's Acriflavine or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus  > Cure to the > hatching container is often a benefit in preventing extensive  > fungusing of the > eggs. Once hatched, small PWC's can be used to remove most of it,  > or a carbon > filter can temporarily be used until the fry free-swim. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45675	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

So no to the net brooder in the same tank? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 14, 2010, at 12:01 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Yes Lainey, > > You can use the 5 but remember to fill it ONLY with water from the > parents tank and at the temps Ray gave you. > > Moving the parents is a tough choice. Putting them in separate > tanks is best and as soon as you see a problem. Remember what I > told you moving them at all is a real train wreck! You may get > away with it and they may throw a fit, stop eating and die. Rams > are very delicate in this respect. They just don't do well being > moved but if they start fighting, you have no choice. If you must > move or separate them at all, I would move the male if it comes to it. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 11:44 PM > > Ray and Bill - > > 1. Can I use a bare bottom 5g for the fry? Is that too small? The ten > g has tons of gravel and is planted, so not a good option. > > 2. If the pair fights, can I put one of them in a net brooder in the > same tank they're in now? By a net brooder I mean a mesh box that > hangs on the side of the tank. > > 3. I keep reading that the critical time for feeding is the first two > or three days after they free swim. This is when they can't have the > BBS. I do have the San Fran Bay brine hatching eggs. Ray, are you > saying I could use these eggs for hatching and they would be small > enough for this critical window when the mouths are so tiny? My > closest LFS is 1.5 hrs so it would be nice if I don't have to go. > > I'm sure I'll have more questions later if I don't get completely > overwhelmed and decide to just leave things be! > > Thanks for all the feedback. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 13, 2010, at 11:00 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, Noticing in your latest post, that you apparently have the > > Rams > > breeding in a community tank with other fish, even if the parents > > weren't to > > eat the eggs, the other fish would no doubt eat the fry when they > > become free > > swimming -- or sooner, eat the eggs depending on the size of these > > other > > fish and their ability to overwhelm the parents. As a reminder, by > > removing > > the spawning rock with eggs, you will be inviting a possible > > conflict between > > the two parents. I did also mention you should replace it with > another > > similar rock if at all possible. You did not previously mention > > your future > > fry rearing tank as being a planted one the last time they spawn. > > > > As long as you can supply the spawn with a bare bottom in an area > > extending > > out several inches (as wide as possible) in all directions from the > > rock, > > and are prepared for possible battling between the parents with > > preparation > > to separate them fast if it becomes necessary, you may then give it > > a try > > moving this rock while its dark. You'll need to look into getting > > the right > > first foods for the fry as soon as you can, but you'll have about 7 > > days to > > obtain it before the fry will free-swim. If you have any on hand, > the > > addition of either Kordon's Acriflavine or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus > > Cure to the > > hatching container is often a benefit in preventing extensive > > fungusing of the > > eggs. Once hatched, small PWC's can be used to remove most of it, > > or a carbon > > filter can temporarily be used until the fry free-swim. Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45676	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Just thought I'd pop in a comment. I personally wouldn't put a ram into a net brooder unless it's a really big one. They like to explore and being that they'd be stuck in a little box, they'd probably "stop eating and die" as Bill puts it. They are sensitive fish. I haven't tried keeping them again since I slowly seem to lose them every time I've tried. Perhaps after I get another year or more experience under my belt ;) LOL. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > So no to the net brooder in the same tank? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 14, 2010, at 12:01 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > >> Yes Lainey, >> >> You can use the 5 but remember to fill it ONLY with water from the >> parents tank and at the temps Ray gave you. >> >> Moving the parents is a tough choice. Putting them in separate >> tanks is best and as soon as you see a problem. Remember what I >> told you moving them at all is a real train wreck! You may get >> away with it and they may throw a fit, stop eating and die. Rams >> are very delicate in this respect. They just don't do well being >> moved but if they start fighting, you have no choice. If you must >> move or separate them at all, I would move the male if it comes to it. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: >> >> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 11:44 PM >> >> Ray and Bill - >> >> 1. Can I use a bare bottom 5g for the fry? Is that too small? The ten >> g has tons of gravel and is planted, so not a good option. >> >> 2. If the pair fights, can I put one of them in a net brooder in the >> same tank they're in now? By a net brooder I mean a mesh box that >> hangs on the side of the tank. >> >> 3. I keep reading that the critical time for feeding is the first two >> or three days after they free swim. This is when they can't have the >> BBS. I do have the San Fran Bay brine hatching eggs. Ray, are you >> saying I could use these eggs for hatching and they would be small >> enough for this critical window when the mouths are so tiny? My >> closest LFS is 1.5 hrs so it would be nice if I don't have to go. >> >> I'm sure I'll have more questions later if I don't get completely >> overwhelmed and decide to just leave things be! >> >> Thanks for all the feedback. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Jan 13, 2010, at 11:00 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >> >> >>> Lainey, Noticing in your latest post, that you apparently have the >>> Rams >>> breeding in a community tank with other fish, even if the parents >>> weren't to >>> eat the eggs, the other fish would no doubt eat the fry when they >>> become free >>> swimming -- or sooner, eat the eggs depending on the size of these >>> other >>> fish and their ability to overwhelm the parents. As a reminder, by >>> removing >>> the spawning rock with eggs, you will be inviting a possible >>> conflict between >>> the two parents. I did also mention you should replace it with >>> >> another >> >>> similar rock if at all possible. You did not previously mention >>> your future >>> fry rearing tank as being a planted one the last time they spawn. >>> >>> As long as you can supply the spawn with a bare bottom in an area >>> extending >>> out several inches (as wide as possible) in all directions from the >>> rock, >>> and are prepared for possible battling between the parents with >>> preparation >>> to separate them fast if it becomes necessary, you may then give it >>> a try >>> moving this rock while its dark. You'll need to look into getting >>> the right >>> first foods for the fry as soon as you can, but you'll have about 7 >>> days to >>> obtain it before the fry will free-swim. If you have any on hand, >>> >> the >> >>> addition of either Kordon's Acriflavine or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus >>> Cure to the >>> hatching container is often a benefit in preventing extensive >>> fungusing of the >>> eggs. Once hatched, small PWC's can be used to remove most of it, >>> or a carbon >>> filter can temporarily be used until the fry free-swim. Ray</HTML> >>> >>> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >> Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >> ((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- >> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45677	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Lainey,   All I can tell you is that I would not do it.  Just how far would I go? Even one of those plastic boxes made by "Sterlite"---they even come with lids.  You easily find them at Wal-Mart for under 10 bucks.  Throw in a heater pre-set at his old tank temp and air/sponge filter and your off.   If he panics or gets caught in that mesh----well you can guess what will happen. Think of it as you would yourself is the best I can tell you. Would you want to go to Chicago right now?  This very minute? How about doing some spring-cleaning over the whole house and up-root everything?   Well Rams don't like it either.  With them it's simple, the least amount of fuss the better. They are great fish if given half a chance and you have already done more than that.  Obviously, or they would not be spawning for you.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 12:19 AM So no to the net brooder in the same tank? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 14, 2010, at 12:01 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Yes Lainey, > > You can use the 5 but remember to fill it ONLY with water from the  > parents tank and at the temps Ray gave you. > > Moving the parents is a tough choice.  Putting them in separate  > tanks is best and as soon as you see a problem.  Remember what I  > told you moving them at all is a real train wreck!  You may get  > away with it and they may throw a fit, stop eating and die.  Rams  > are very delicate in this respect.  They just don't do well being  > moved but if they start fighting, you have no choice.  If you must  > move or separate them at all, I would move the male if it comes to it. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/13/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 11:44 PM > > Ray and Bill - > > 1. Can I use a bare bottom 5g for the fry? Is that too small? The ten > g has tons of gravel and is planted, so not a good option. > > 2. If the pair fights, can I put one of them in a net brooder in the > same tank they're in now? By a net brooder I mean a mesh box that > hangs on the side of the tank. > > 3. I keep reading that the critical time for feeding is the first two > or three days after they free swim. This is when they can't have the > BBS. I do have the San Fran Bay brine hatching eggs. Ray, are you > saying I could use these eggs for hatching and they would be small > enough for this critical window when the mouths are so tiny? My > closest LFS is 1.5 hrs so it would be nice if I don't have to go. > > I'm sure I'll have more questions later if I don't get completely > overwhelmed and decide to just leave things be! > > Thanks for all the feedback. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 13, 2010, at 11:00 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, Noticing in your latest post, that you apparently have the > > Rams > > breeding in a community tank with other fish, even if the parents > > weren't to > > eat the eggs, the other fish would no doubt eat the fry when they > > become free > > swimming -- or sooner, eat the eggs depending on the size of these > > other > > fish and their ability to overwhelm the parents. As a reminder, by > > removing > > the spawning rock with eggs, you will be inviting a possible > > conflict between > > the two parents. I did also mention you should replace it with  > another > > similar rock if at all possible. You did not previously mention > > your future > > fry rearing tank as being a planted one the last time they spawn. > > > > As long as you can supply the spawn with a bare bottom in an area > > extending > > out several inches (as wide as possible) in all directions from the > > rock, > > and are prepared for possible battling between the parents with > > preparation > > to separate them fast if it becomes necessary, you may then give it > > a try > > moving this rock while its dark. You'll need to look into getting > > the right > > first foods for the fry as soon as you can, but you'll have about 7 > > days to > > obtain it before the fry will free-swim. If you have any on hand,  > the > > addition of either Kordon's Acriflavine or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus > > Cure to the > > hatching container is often a benefit in preventing extensive > > fungusing of the > > eggs. Once hatched, small PWC's can be used to remove most of it, > > or a carbon > > filter can temporarily be used until the fry free-swim. Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original  > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old  > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on  > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest,  > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail  > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group  > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45678	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Lainey, NO, the 5 gallon tank is too small. For that matter, the 10 is even small. For raising a batch of fry, at least a 20 long should be used but at least the 10 will give you a good start until you see how many (or how few) fry are being raised. While a completely bare bottom would be best, especially when it comes to ease of maintenance in keeping the bottom clean, I understand your present situation in have the tank planted. I would not want you to attempt removing all the gravel even if you could as this will probably make the water at least somewhat turbid (stirred up with debris/particles) which you want to avoid. Just (carefully) make a large clearing in the center of the tank as large as is practical for placing the spawning rock within. Use the 5 gallon (with water from the larger tank) for one of the parents if things get too hectic between them. Don't use a breeder net for holding one of them. I said that, with using the smaller San Fran Bay brine shrimp eggs, you don't need to wait a week before feeding them this. You can feed them this newly hatched BBS on the fourth day. Maybe you can have the APR shipped to you to get before 7 days. You could try Liquifry, but sparingly. What I've mostly seen with this product is that rather than the fry feeding on much of it directly (they may consume some), the product will promote infusoria which they will then feed on. Too much Liquifry can foul a tank easily. It would pay you to first call your LFS since they're that far away, but the odds of them having APR in stock is not that great if they're a smaller store -- but still worth looking into. You could also try frozen BBS after two days, which they'll pick pieces off of (you sould have a small to moderate airstone flow at all times to keep all foods suspended). Frozen BBS is made primarily by San Fran Bay (it's small). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45679	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Amber's Fish Wholesaler Biz (was: Re: Fish Profiles)

Lets see now.... what's a good name for her local fish wholesaler company, which could also be the name of the local fish society that she's planning on starting up... "Federation of Excellent Fish Hobbyists" And now she also has a FREE delivery truck to use for the biz! Just throw a magnetic sign "Fish Hobbyists" on each side, under the FedEx logo, before pulling up for a fish delivery! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles heh heh heh... I think you already know my thoughts Amber. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 7:19 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles   I just got 2 contaminants, they show up in gastromyzon scitulus shipments, the seller called them gastromyzon zibrinus. I wish I had a local wholesaler to check out :( And don't be getting any ideas about ME being the local wholesaler ;) LOL Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > I used to go to the local wholesaler and there were occasionally > contaminants in the tanks of wild caught fish. Those of us that went > there would look specifically for the contaminants as they may have > been something rare or hard to come by. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45680	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: One new fish didn't make it :(

Well one of my gastromyzon zebrinus didn't make it through the evening. I'm not sure why, but it was dead in the tank when I was watching and counting fish tails. All fish were acclimated the same, so that process wasn't goofed up. I'm thinking it just wasn't as hardy and didn't handle the shipping as well as the others. Also one of the gastromyzon zebrinus was a "freebee" in with the free guppy's that were sent, which was 5 fish total in that bag. I'm wondering if perhaps it didn't do well with so many fish in a bag, since they have such high oxygen requirements (but just a guess). The rest of the loaches were sent 2 per bag, and all did very well acclimating. And I wish to add as well, I hate trying to get sucker type fish out of plastic bags, they don't go with the water like the rest of the fish do ;) LOL I like watching the botia kubotai loaches, but wish I had gotten more with the auction, LOL. I will pick up more later, another aquabid seller sells them for $6 each for smaller ones which is (usually) a better deal than the seller I got these loaches from, but these ones are also full grown. I'm a bit bummed that I lost a fish, but I suppose it's not so terrible since the seller sent me a free one of the same type I lost. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45681	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Amber's Fish Wholesaler Biz

Oh sure and get written up for having another company logo on my van, I think I'll pass on that idea ;) LOL My hubby would kill me if I started a wholesaling company and had to get a bunch of tanks for the business ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Lets see now.... what's a good name for her local fish wholesaler company, > which could also be the name of the local fish society that she's planning > on starting up... > > "Federation of Excellent Fish Hobbyists" > > And now she also has a FREE delivery truck to use for the biz! Just > throw a > magnetic sign "Fish Hobbyists" on each side, under the FedEx logo, before > pulling up for a fish delivery! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles > > heh heh heh... > > I think you already know my thoughts Amber. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 7:19 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Profiles > > > I just got 2 contaminants, they show up in gastromyzon scitulus shipments, > the seller called them gastromyzon zibrinus. > I wish I had a local wholesaler to check out :( And don't be getting any > ideas about ME being the local wholesaler ;) LOL > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > I used to go to the local wholesaler and there were occasionally > > contaminants in the tanks of wild caught fish. Those of us that went > > there would look specifically for the contaminants as they may have > > been something rare or hard to come by. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45682	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

I don't know the size of this spawn, but if you feel there's no other alternative, you can use the 5 gallon for the eggs -- as Bill is suggesting -- provided there's not a large spawn, but it's much harder to keep a smaller container clean when feeding a fair sized batch of fry -- which may even refuse some foods at first until you find what they prefer. Even then, and after they may take BBS, as you're not yet experienced in feeding this, you're going to have the tendency to overfeed on this which will decrease the water quality of the smaller tank much faster. End note on this, I don't recommend the 5 gallon. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45683	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

OK, my friend John is saying I can use his ten g which would be completely empty and clean. So, the BEST way to proceed, if I follow correctly is: Fill the ten g with tank water, set temps to 84, set up a sponge filter, stick the rock on the floor. Will this tank be cycled if the tank water is cycled? Or could I get into ammo spikes and whatnot? Can I offer floating plants? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:21 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > I don't know the size of this spawn, but if you feel there's no other > alternative, you can use the 5 gallon for the eggs -- as Bill is > suggesting -- > provided there's not a large spawn, but it's much harder to keep a > smaller > container clean when feeding a fair sized batch of fry -- which may > even > refuse some foods at first until you find what they prefer. Even > then, and after > they may take BBS, as you're not yet experienced in feeding this, > you're > going to have the tendency to overfeed on this which will decrease > the water > quality of the smaller tank much faster. End note on this, I don't > recommend > the 5 gallon. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45684	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Rub the sponge from the filter you're going to use on this 10 gallon against the filter cartridge in your 20 gallon, really well. That will help grow some of the nitrifying bacteria onto the sponge filter for the fry. But remember you are going to need to feed this nitrifying bacteria if you do this too soon before the fry hatch. You should not get any ammonia spikes/readings until after the fry hatch and you start feeding them, I would then take the sponge filter out and rub it against your filter cartridge on your 20 gallon, no need to do this days in advance if there are no actual fish living in the tank (eggs don't do much, LOL). Floating plants would be fine I would think, can't see why not. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > OK, my friend John is saying I can use his ten g which would be > completely empty and clean. So, the BEST way to proceed, if I follow > correctly is: > > Fill the ten g with tank water, set temps to 84, set up a sponge > filter, stick the rock on the floor. > > Will this tank be cycled if the tank water is cycled? Or could I get > into ammo spikes and whatnot? > > Can I offer floating plants? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:21 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > >> I don't know the size of this spawn, but if you feel there's no other >> alternative, you can use the 5 gallon for the eggs -- as Bill is >> suggesting -- >> provided there's not a large spawn, but it's much harder to keep a >> smaller >> container clean when feeding a fair sized batch of fry -- which may >> even >> refuse some foods at first until you find what they prefer. Even >> then, and after >> they may take BBS, as you're not yet experienced in feeding this, >> you're >> going to have the tendency to overfeed on this which will decrease >> the water >> quality of the smaller tank much faster. End note on this, I don't >> recommend >> the 5 gallon. Ray</HTML> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45685	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

\\Steve//, For discussion purposes... The *why* is one name more "common" is the big question for me, Paradise Fish or Paradise Gourami? I see both names listed as common names on many profiles and/or when talking about these fish in forums, although Paradise Fish is more commonly used for a reason I theorize below. Just off the top of my head, you have fish from the Trichogaster, Trichopsis and Colisa and probably other Genera (or would that be Geni? ;-)) that are all commonly called Gourami as part of their common names, so why not from the Macropodus Genus? They are all from the Osphronemidae Family. In my readings, I thought the following is why folks more recently started calling them Gourami... if they look like a duck, quack like a duck, act like a duck, breathe surface air like a duck and build a bubble nest like a duck... then they must be a duck... oops... I mean Gourami... right? Or is the Paradise Fish more of a goose or a swan instead of a duck... like a Betta isn't a Gourami? All this said, I 100% wholeheartedly agree that it would be best to use or at least include the scientific name alongside the common name when buying, selling or sometimes even when discussing certain species of fish. In my readings, I saw several mentions that this fish was one of, if not the first fish ever imported and introduced to the *tropical* fish keeping hobby, so quite possibly, it was named without using Gourami, since the other Gourami were not in the hobby yet. Last but not least, I think it's kind of redundant to have a common name of a fish that includes "fish" as part of it's common name... like goldfish fish and Paradise Fish fish... and possibly others. The same can be said about the common names swordfish, dogfish or catfish and I understand that "fish" was added to the common name so that folks immediately realize that fish were being discussed, not swords, dogs and cats.... so I guess the same could be said about Paradise and Gold. ;-) But with the swordfish and catfish, they are generally called that because they resemble those other objects/animals (sword and whiskers) but I'm not sure about the dogfish which is actually a shark and doesn't have any features of a dog... unless it's been known to lick itself whenever company comes over. LOL In all of my scuba diving adventures, I've yet to see that happen. ;-) Paradise Fish and Goldfish do not have any *real* physical features that would lend themselves to paradise or gold (other than the color on the "original" goldfish inbreeds). Hmmmmm.. I think I've come a full 360 on this discussion, all by myself.... but my point is that the Paradise Fish and Goldfish should probably have been named Paradise Gourami and Golden Dwarf Carp (now that's an oxymoron! lol).. or something like that instead of using "fish" as part of their common names. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Donna, There are many reasons for this from the shop personnel not knowing their fish to someone changing the name of a fish to make it more saleable or pricier because no one has ever heard the name before. If, throughout the distribution chain, they were to use the scientific name, it would make things a lot easier for us, but, the great unwashed masses think that scientific names are just lo, like, difficult, um, to, you know, like understand. There is a volume, published every few years, that lists all the accepted, by science, common names of fish, along with the scientific name of the fish the name is applied to. However, it is really only the scientists that use this listing. If it were in wider use then it may be a bit easier to ID a fish by common name. If I may pull another thread into this discussion, someone yesterday asked about the paradise fish. I've seen in, in recent years, being sold as paradise gourami. Outside of the fact that it is not a gourami (and neither are most of those labeled so in the hobby, why change the common name from paradise fish to paradise gourami? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45686	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: WELL CRAP

Tonight is not my night apparently. I don't understand why the lights turning off on the tank would suddenly kill 2 of my new hillstream loaches. The ones in the 125 gallon tank are fine. I have plenty of water movement on my 55 gallon so there should be enough oxygen. They suddenly turned very pale and stopped moving and floated to the bottom of the tank. I picked one up and held it in my hand and turned it upside down and I could still see it's little heart beating, but it wasn't breathing or moving. 2 of them are still fine, not acting any different than when the lights were on, I just don't understand what happened. Just in case I stole one of the powerheads from the 125 gallon tank and moved it to this one to make sure there's enough water movement for the 2 loaches left. On a side note, the guppy's sure are having fun playing in all the new water current ;) LOL Amber, who's now lost 3 fish :(

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45687	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP

Have you ever tested your pH when the lights have been on all day and then what might happen to it when the lights go out to see how much it changes? Typically, a pH change (usually a drop) caused by the loss of photosynthesis (plants using CO2 and putting out O2) does not cause harm to fish like a pH drop caused by other factors (water quality, etc.) BUT... I guess there's always a chance. Increase surface agitation while the lights are out tonight to increase the O2 levels in the tank. This may be why most acclimation procedure lists suggest that acclimation be done with the tank's lighting off, so that the pH is already lower to start with so the fish would only have to face any change in the pH after they've been in the tank overnight since the new fish are already stressed to a certain degree already. I hope there's not any other kind of health issue involved since I noticed you did not quarantine. I wasn't going to say anything until now but... BAD AMBER!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP Tonight is not my night apparently. I don't understand why the lights turning off on the tank would suddenly kill 2 of my new hillstream loaches. The ones in the 125 gallon tank are fine. I have plenty of water movement on my 55 gallon so there should be enough oxygen. They suddenly turned very pale and stopped moving and floated to the bottom of the tank. I picked one up and held it in my hand and turned it upside down and I could still see it's little heart beating, but it wasn't breathing or moving. 2 of them are still fine, not acting any different than when the lights were on, I just don't understand what happened. Just in case I stole one of the powerheads from the 125 gallon tank and moved it to this one to make sure there's enough water movement for the 2 loaches left. On a side note, the guppy's sure are having fun playing in all the new water current ;) LOL Amber, who's now lost 3 fish :(

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45688	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP

Does a pH change happen within seconds after the lights go out? I don't have a filter for the Q tank, it died at some point and I forgot to pick up a new one from walmart. Honestly I don't like quarantining hillstream loaches in an unestablished tank, and since I didn't have one empty I had to add them to a tank with fish in it. They don't do well in brand new tanks, in fact that typically kills them faster than putting them in an established tank with an illness hiding in it. They need well established algae for their food supply. I suppose I could fill the Q tank with water and set it into the living room window to grow algae until the next time I get hillstream loaches ;) Or have hubby pee in it occasionally, LOL. I added a 4th powerhead to the tank to help increase surface agitation and made sure they were all pointed at the surface as well. 2 of them are still doing fine from what I can see. I saw the spotted sewellia swim off the front of the glass as soon as the lights went out and when I went to see where he swam I noticed he was upside down on the bottom of the tank, not looking very well. When I turned the lights on I saw he had lost all his color as well, and one of the small gastromyzon's had done the same thing. As I said I could still see one had it's heart still beating, but was not breathing :( Looks like I'll be lucky to get 2 of the gastromyzon's to live out of 4, and the spotted sewellia was short lived :( Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Have you ever tested your pH when the lights have been on all day and then > what might happen to it when the lights go out to see how much it > changes? > > Typically, a pH change (usually a drop) caused by the loss of > photosynthesis > (plants using CO2 and putting out O2) does not cause harm to fish like > a pH > drop caused by other factors (water quality, etc.) BUT... I guess there's > always a chance. Increase surface agitation while the lights are out > tonight to increase the O2 levels in the tank. > > This may be why most acclimation procedure lists suggest that > acclimation be > done with the tank's lighting off, so that the pH is already lower to > start > with so the fish would only have to face any change in the pH after > they've > been in the tank overnight since the new fish are already stressed to a > certain degree already. > > I hope there's not any other kind of health issue involved since I noticed > you did not quarantine. I wasn't going to say anything until now > but... BAD > AMBER!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > Tonight is not my night apparently. > I don't understand why the lights turning off on the tank would suddenly > kill 2 of my new hillstream loaches. > The ones in the 125 gallon tank are fine. I have plenty of water > movement on > my 55 gallon so there should be enough oxygen. They suddenly turned very > pale and stopped moving and floated to the bottom of the tank. I > picked one > up and held it in my hand and turned it upside down and I could still see > it's little heart beating, but it wasn't breathing or moving. > 2 of them are still fine, not acting any different than when the > lights were > on, I just don't understand what happened. > Just in case I stole one of the powerheads from the 125 gallon tank and > moved it to this one to make sure there's enough water movement for the > 2 loaches left. > On a side note, the guppy's sure are having fun playing in all the new > water > current ;) LOL > > Amber, who's now lost 3 fish :( > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45689	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/13/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Since your current tank is only 78F, you want to slowly raise the temp to 80F and then to 83-84F over the course of few days, NOT overnight or immediately... unless Ray or others advise differently. I haven't seen this mentioned so I thought I would throw it into the mix. Go for no more than a 2F increase per 24 hour period. The tank will not be cycled but you could squeeze some of the *dirty* juice from the filter media of their current tank so that it gets picked up by the sponge filter and that will transfer some/enough N-bacteria to the sponge filter to handle the bioload of the eggs and/or wrigglers and as the fry start to grow, the N-bacteria colonies will multiply to keep up with the increasing amounts of ammonia. Of course, you'll still have to do PWC's as needed to keep the water quality in good shape and these will come from your daily vacuuming of the bottom of the tank to remove uneaten food, dead fry, etc. Since you have limited tank space, you should also consider immediately culling a lot of the fry that do not look so good, so that the strongest looking fry have a better chance of survival. You have to take over for nature since Darwinism doesn't come into the picture as much in a fry only tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 12:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two OK, my friend John is saying I can use his ten g which would be completely empty and clean. So, the BEST way to proceed, if I follow correctly is: Fill the ten g with tank water, set temps to 84, set up a sponge filter, stick the rock on the floor. Will this tank be cycled if the tank water is cycled? Or could I get into ammo spikes and whatnot? Can I offer floating plants? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:21 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > I don't know the size of this spawn, but if you feel there's no other > alternative, you can use the 5 gallon for the eggs -- as Bill is > suggesting -- provided there's not a large spawn, but it's much harder > to keep a smaller container clean when feeding a fair sized batch of > fry -- which may even refuse some foods at first until you find what > they prefer. Even then, and after they may take BBS, as you're not yet > experienced in feeding this, you're going to have the tendency to > overfeed on this which will decrease the water quality of the smaller > tank much faster. End note on this, I don't recommend the 5 gallon. > Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45690	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP

It shouldn't happen within seconds... of course, I've never tested any of my tanks to see how fast the pH change actually takes place. Theoretically, it could happen quite quickly since the plants immediately stop using up CO2, I would think, as soon as the lights go out. In nature, the lights do not go out or come one immediately so any change in pH is done slowly as the sun rises, then reaches full daylight, then slowly sets at night. I always have my room lights on completely before I turn out my tank lights so that the tanks are still at least lit up and the plants would still be doing some photosynthesis for another hour or so and then I turn out the room lights. I know most folks do not do this and it works for most of them and as fish become acclimate to this abrupt change in lighting, it probably would not shock them as much... but for brand new fish, who may or may not have had abrupt lighting changes, this could be quite shocking (read more about shock below). Depending on the CO2, carbonic acid and other acidic levels in the tank, being produced by the fish, filters, decaying detritus, overall ecology of the tank, etc.... and the growth activity of the plants using up the CO2 during the *day*, if there are high levels of CO2 in the water that are kept low during the day when the plants are growing fast, then conversely, at night, when the lights go out, and with your bright lights and the plants sucking up the CO2 as fast as they can... and then when your lights go out, the quick sucking up of CO2 stops and it could happen quickly. It's time for another experiment with your CO2 and pH levels right before lights out and then right after lights out and every 10 minutes or so afterwards to see how much yours might be changing... if any. Of course, the SHOCK of your lights going out right away could have shocked the already stressed fish as I mentioned above. On my blog's page, Disease & Illness Diagnosis, http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht ml, I have a section about Stress and other Non-Disease health issues. Here's a snip of those sections. I haven't checked all of these links in a while so let me know if any are no longer working. Just glancing at it, I know the second one is no longer available. I see where I added the Wayback Machine's archived link of the page hoping that MSN would reconsider their decision to shut down all of their groups... but they didn't. Non-Disease Diagnosis: Are Your Fish Really Suffering From Disease? A guide to non-disease causes of illness http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm (GoldLenny) Shock diagnosis: http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw (Hailey) The original page on "Shock Diagnosis" is shut down but the original article can still be found here, on the Internet Wayback Archive, which takes a snapshot of every page on the internet and archives the pages... just in case something like this ever happens to your favorite site... so here's the new link... http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/s hock.msnw If you ever need to find a copy of one of your old favorites, if you have the URL, you can just go to the Internet Wayback Archive http://www.archive.org/web/web.php and copy/paste or type out the URL in the search field and then you should find that page. You may have to check a few of the snapshots to find one that works right. I'm not sure why this happens, but sometimes the Wayback Archive will crawl a page and pick up the background only, which happened to the two 2008 archived pages on the above link but the 2004 links worked fine. Stress Related Problems: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005 (DataGuru from TheGAB.org) http://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/stress.html (GoldLenny) http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476 (GoldLenny) http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html (GoldLenny) http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.htm (GoldLenny) http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php (GoldLenny) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP Does a pH change happen within seconds after the lights go out? I don't have a filter for the Q tank, it died at some point and I forgot to pick up a new one from walmart. Honestly I don't like quarantining hillstream loaches in an unestablished tank, and since I didn't have one empty I had to add them to a tank with fish in it. They don't do well in brand new tanks, in fact that typically kills them faster than putting them in an established tank with an illness hiding in it. They need well established algae for their food supply. I suppose I could fill the Q tank with water and set it into the living room window to grow algae until the next time I get hillstream loaches ;) Or have hubby pee in it occasionally, LOL. I added a 4th powerhead to the tank to help increase surface agitation and made sure they were all pointed at the surface as well. 2 of them are still doing fine from what I can see. I saw the spotted sewellia swim off the front of the glass as soon as the lights went out and when I went to see where he swam I noticed he was upside down on the bottom of the tank, not looking very well. When I turned the lights on I saw he had lost all his color as well, and one of the small gastromyzon's had done the same thing. As I said I could still see one had it's heart still beating, but was not breathing :( Looks like I'll be lucky to get 2 of the gastromyzon's to live out of 4, and the spotted sewellia was short lived :( Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Have you ever tested your pH when the lights have been on all day and > then what might happen to it when the lights go out to see how much it > changes? > > Typically, a pH change (usually a drop) caused by the loss of > photosynthesis (plants using CO2 and putting out O2) does not cause > harm to fish like a pH drop caused by other factors (water quality, > etc.) BUT... I guess there's always a chance. Increase surface > agitation while the lights are out tonight to increase the O2 levels > in the tank. > > This may be why most acclimation procedure lists suggest that > acclimation be done with the tank's lighting off, so that the pH is > already lower to start with so the fish would only have to face any > change in the pH after they've been in the tank overnight since the > new fish are already stressed to a certain degree already. > > I hope there's not any other kind of health issue involved since I > noticed you did not quarantine. I wasn't going to say anything until > now but... BAD AMBER!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > Tonight is not my night apparently. > I don't understand why the lights turning off on the tank would > suddenly kill 2 of my new hillstream loaches. > The ones in the 125 gallon tank are fine. I have plenty of water > movement on my 55 gallon so there should be enough oxygen. They > suddenly turned very pale and stopped moving and floated to the bottom > of the tank. I picked one up and held it in my hand and turned it > upside down and I could still see it's little heart beating, but it > wasn't breathing or moving. > 2 of them are still fine, not acting any different than when the > lights were on, I just don't understand what happened. > Just in case I stole one of the powerheads from the 125 gallon tank > and moved it to this one to make sure there's enough water movement > for the > 2 loaches left. > On a side note, the guppy's sure are having fun playing in all the new > water current ;) LOL > > Amber, who's now lost 3 fish :( > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45691	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: POP QUIZ!!!

OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, that means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before answering), no lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically correct scoring, no blaming it on the question or available answers (give the best one when the exact one you'd like isn't available), no blaming it on the alcohol (props to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no blaming it on the recreational drugs you may have done in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old age, young age, etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm (after you finish the last question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To Next Level" button) Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which you can research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge on the missed questions. We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. ;-) Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced than Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. I should have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late hour... ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply since I don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong answers. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45692	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

Oh trust me I know. I work on the profiles for Cichlid-forum updating the scientific names, etc. I don't patronize LFS much any more, because I want the scientific name AND the collection point, LOL. Although there are a couple LFS within an hour from me that have good cichlid sections. My suggestion is if you care about such things, buy from a reputable, knowledgeable vendor who you trust and can give you the name. If something just catches your eye and you must have it, don't worry about exact ID. Luckily I have two hatcheries within three hours (one way) from me and a selection of online vendors that can cover most of what I want. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Donna, There are many reasons for this from the shop personnel not knowing their fish to someone changing the name of a fish to make it more saleable or pricier because no one has ever heard the name before. If, throughout the distribution chain, they were to use the scientific name, it would make things a lot easier for us, but, the great unwashed masses think that scientific names are just lo, like, difficult, um, to, you know, like understand. There is a volume, published every few years, that lists all the accepted, by science, common names of fish, along with the scientific name of the fish the name is applied to. However, it is really only the scientists that use this listing. If it were in wider use then it may be a bit easier to ID a fish by common name. If I may pull another thread into this discussion, someone yesterday asked about the paradise fish. I've seen in, in recent years, being sold as paradise gourami. Outside of the fact that it is not a gourami (and neither are most of those labeled so in the hobby, why change the common name from paradise fish to paradise gourami? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45693	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

One thing that is lucky with African cichlids is we have one researcher active in the field (annual diving trips to Lake Malawi trips currently, and Lake Tanganyika in the past) who publishes books periodically on the fish and proposes scientific classifications for those not yet classified and changes for those with new findings in the Lake. And his findings are fairly well accepted in the hobby. He also takes into account the findings of other scientists. So we have sort of a bible to go by. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles \\Steve//, For discussion purposes... The *why* is one name more "common" is the big question for me, Paradise Fish or Paradise Gourami? I see both names listed as common names on many profiles and/or when talking about these fish in forums, although Paradise Fish is more commonly used for a reason I theorize below. Just off the top of my head, you have fish from the Trichogaster, Trichopsis and Colisa and probably other Genera (or would that be Geni? ;-)) that are all commonly called Gourami as part of their common names, so why not from the Macropodus Genus? They are all from the Osphronemidae Family. In my readings, I thought the following is why folks more recently started calling them Gourami... if they look like a duck, quack like a duck, act like a duck, breathe surface air like a duck and build a bubble nest like a duck... then they must be a duck... oops... I mean Gourami... right? Or is the Paradise Fish more of a goose or a swan instead of a duck... like a Betta isn't a Gourami? All this said, I 100% wholeheartedly agree that it would be best to use or at least include the scientific name alongside the common name when buying, selling or sometimes even when discussing certain species of fish. In my readings, I saw several mentions that this fish was one of, if not the first fish ever imported and introduced to the *tropical* fish keeping hobby, so quite possibly, it was named without using Gourami, since the other Gourami were not in the hobby yet. Last but not least, I think it's kind of redundant to have a common name of a fish that includes "fish" as part of it's common name... like goldfish fish and Paradise Fish fish... and possibly others. The same can be said about the common names swordfish, dogfish or catfish and I understand that "fish" was added to the common name so that folks immediately realize that fish were being discussed, not swords, dogs and cats.... so I guess the same could be said about Paradise and Gold. ;-) But with the swordfish and catfish, they are generally called that because they resemble those other objects/animals (sword and whiskers) but I'm not sure about the dogfish which is actually a shark and doesn't have any features of a dog... unless it's been known to lick itself whenever company comes over. LOL In all of my scuba diving adventures, I've yet to see that happen. ;-) Paradise Fish and Goldfish do not have any *real* physical features that would lend themselves to paradise or gold (other than the color on the "original" goldfish inbreeds). Hmmmmm.. I think I've come a full 360 on this discussion, all by myself.... but my point is that the Paradise Fish and Goldfish should probably have been named Paradise Gourami and Golden Dwarf Carp (now that's an oxymoron! lol).. or something like that instead of using "fish" as part of their common names. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Donna, There are many reasons for this from the shop personnel not knowing their fish to someone changing the name of a fish to make it more saleable or pricier because no one has ever heard the name before. If, throughout the distribution chain, they were to use the scientific name, it would make things a lot easier for us, but, the great unwashed masses think that scientific names are just lo, like, difficult, um, to, you know, like understand. There is a volume, published every few years, that lists all the accepted, by science, common names of fish, along with the scientific name of the fish the name is applied to. However, it is really only the scientists that use this listing. If it were in wider use then it may be a bit easier to ID a fish by common name. If I may pull another thread into this discussion, someone yesterday asked about the paradise fish. I've seen in, in recent years, being sold as paradise gourami. Outside of the fact that it is not a gourami (and neither are most of those labeled so in the hobby, why change the common name from paradise fish to paradise gourami? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45694	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

Lenny, Can't answer all your points right now, but paradise fish has been called that since the 1800's, and the paradise gourami name was first seen by myself in the late 1990's, in a shop. So, if you have nothing else, the paradise fish takes precedence over the paradise gourami moniker. I'll try for a more complete answer tonight. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles \\Steve//, For discussion purposes... The *why* is one name more "common" is the big question for me, Paradise Fish or Paradise Gourami? I see both names listed as common names on many profiles and/or when talking about these fish in forums, although Paradise Fish is more commonly used for a reason I theorize below. Just off the top of my head, you have fish from the Trichogaster, Trichopsis and Colisa and probably other Genera (or would that be Geni? ;-)) that are all commonly called Gourami as part of their common names, so why not from the Macropodus Genus? They are all from the Osphronemidae Family. In my readings, I thought the following is why folks more recently started calling them Gourami... if they look like a duck, quack like a duck, act like a duck, breathe surface air like a duck and build a bubble nest like a duck... then they must be a duck... oops... I mean Gourami... right? Or is the Paradise Fish more of a goose or a swan instead of a duck... like a Betta isn't a Gourami? All this said, I 100% wholeheartedly agree that it would be best to use or at least include the scientific name alongside the common name when buying, selling or sometimes even when discussing certain species of fish. In my readings, I saw several mentions that this fish was one of, if not the first fish ever imported and introduced to the *tropical* fish keeping hobby, so quite possibly, it was named without using Gourami, since the other Gourami were not in the hobby yet. Last but not least, I think it's kind of redundant to have a common name of a fish that includes "fish" as part of it's common name... like goldfish fish and Paradise Fish fish... and possibly others. The same can be said about the common names swordfish, dogfish or catfish and I understand that "fish" was added to the common name so that folks immediately realize that fish were being discussed, not swords, dogs and cats.... so I guess the same could be said about Paradise and Gold. ;-) But with the swordfish and catfish, they are generally called that because they resemble those other objects/animals (sword and whiskers) but I'm not sure about the dogfish which is actually a shark and doesn't have any features of a dog... unless it's been known to lick itself whenever company comes over. LOL In all of my scuba diving adventures, I've yet to see that happen. ;-) Paradise Fish and Goldfish do not have any *real* physical features that would lend themselves to paradise or gold (other than the color on the "original" goldfish inbreeds). Hmmmmm.. I think I've come a full 360 on this discussion, all by myself.... but my point is that the Paradise Fish and Goldfish should probably have been named Paradise Gourami and Golden Dwarf Carp (now that's an oxymoron! lol).. or something like that instead of using "fish" as part of their common names. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Donna, There are many reasons for this from the shop personnel not knowing their fish to someone changing the name of a fish to make it more saleable or pricier because no one has ever heard the name before. If, throughout the distribution chain, they were to use the scientific name, it would make things a lot easier for us, but, the great unwashed masses think that scientific names are just lo, like, difficult, um, to, you know, like understand. There is a volume, published every few years, that lists all the accepted, by science, common names of fish, along with the scientific name of the fish the name is applied to. However, it is really only the scientists that use this listing. If it were in wider use then it may be a bit easier to ID a fish by common name. If I may pull another thread into this discussion, someone yesterday asked about the paradise fish. I've seen in, in recent years, being sold as paradise gourami. Outside of the fact that it is not a gourami (and neither are most of those labeled so in the hobby, why change the common name from paradise fish to paradise gourami? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45695	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Lainey, Yes, fill the 10 gallon with tank (aquarium) water from your community tank -- at least half of it anyway if you can't remove it all. Raise the temperature slowly to 84 o over the next few days. The fact that the parents spawned at cooler than normal breeding temperatures indicates the eggs should be viable at 78 o, so there's not only no need to rush in boosting the temperature but raising it too fast would be detrimental. ALL water parameter adjustments/changes should be done so gradually as fish haven't evolved in nature to be able to cope with abrupt differences. Yes, set up a sponge filter and place the spawning rock on the floor of the tank. This tank will not yet be cycled, but your aquarium water will help seed the sponge filter in adequate time to create the very limited and slowly advancing cycle needed for these fry -- and you might want to rub some bacteria culture onto the sponge from your regular filter media although this not only should not be necessary, but most will probably even starve out. Still, it will ensure your sponge filter gets a good start. The point here is that the bioload caused by these fry are so minimal that it's not going to cause any parameter (ammonia, nitrite, etc.) issues yet unless you grossly overfeed them allowing for an abundance of uneaten food. At this stage in the fry's development, there is really no need for a cycle as the amount of waste they'll be producing might be equal to one half grown male guppy. As the fry grow, so will your nitrifying bacteria, at a rate sufficient to keep up with their waste -- when you perform the regular necessary PWC's that you'll need to do anyway. This is ONE of my MAJOR reasons for having you use the larger tank rather than the smaller one which would have more of a tendency to built up contaminants faster than your sponge filter could grow adequate populations of bacteria. You need to keep in mind too, that besides any ammonia and nitrites being created, fish are constantly giving off growth inhibiting hormones, which would build up twice as fast in the small tank, restricting the fry's growth. With the 10 gallon, while you need to keep up with PWCing, you don't need to remove/exchange as high of a percentage of the 10 gallon tank's volume as compared to the 5 gallon tank's volume. Half of what you will change out in the 10 gallon tank would be equal to all you would need to change out in the 5 gallon tank, if you were to use the smaller tank. In other words, if changing out 2 gallons (40% of the total) of the 5 gallon tank would be considered as necessary to keep these hormones at a minimal level, this same 2 gallons (now only 20% of the total, or half the percentage of this 40% change of the 5 gallon tank) changed out of the 10 gallon tank would not be so drastic yet would still remove the same amount of these hormones. I'm using this only as an example, but the idea here is that it's best to keep water changes for fry at a lower percentage of the tank's volume to prevent larger water differences, and the 10 gallon tank will afford you a much larger leaway in this issue without causing any undue stress on the fry from excessive water change volumes. No, you will not get ammonia spikes as there is EXTREMELY little ammonia being created from the fry in the beginning. The nitifying bacteria will grow with the fry to keep up with their demands, at a more than adequate rate. Yes, you may use floating plants -- which will be an EXTREME benefit as they'll remove much of the organic waste at a pace at least equal to the rate in which they are given off. Keep us posted as things develop. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45696	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

I'm officially a dummy. 2 wrong on the first level. (Read one too fast and I can never keep nitrate/nitrite straight.) 3 right on the second level. And all but one question were guesses. X'ed out after that. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. > > Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, that > means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before answering), no > lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically correct scoring, no > blaming it on the question or available answers (give the best one when the > exact one you'd like isn't available), no blaming it on the alcohol (props > to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no blaming it on the recreational drugs you may > have done in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old > age, young age, etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) > > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm (after you finish the last > question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To Next > Level" button) > > Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which you can > research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge on the missed > questions. > > We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. ;-) > > Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. > > Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. > > Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced than > Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. I should > have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late hour... > ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) > > I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply since I > don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong answers. :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45697	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

Nope, I know you're not a dummy so it just means you might need to refresh your memory... and/or get back to the old crawl before we walk mentality. I have this POP QUIZ link on my blog's "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page, http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-training.h tml, right under the two free online tutorials, so it might be a good time to read/browse through one or both of the free online tutorials. The other thing that I do whenever I miss one of those questions is do a Google on the topic to re-read about it. We can never stop learning! Here's a copy/paste of the section on the FREE tutorials... BEGINNERS TUTORIAL - START HERE - http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-intro.html This is one of my favorite places to send new fish keepers as they can learn about the various aspects of fish keeping by following all of the links in this tutorial. Pay particular attention to "The Nitrogen Cycle", "Fishless Cycling" (recommended), "Cycling With Fish"(not recommended but you may already be stuck with this) and Basic Water Chemistry but please read over all of the other links as well and feel free to ask lots of questions at the forums I have listed to the right, where you will usually find me or many other experienced fish keepers. And if you want to learn even more, here is another tutorial site - http://badmanstropicalfish.com/basics/basics_aquariums.html (END SNIP) Granted, some of the questions on the three quizzes have to do with "Which Genus is not a catfish?" or questions like that, which may not be necessary to really know about since the internet is so readily available... especially to those reading this email or looking at the online tutorials or quizzes BUT if one is missing some of the basic questions, then it's a good idea to take the tutorials for a refresher course. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: POP QUIZ!!! I'm officially a dummy. 2 wrong on the first level. (Read one too fast and I can never keep nitrate/nitrite straight.) 3 right on the second level. And all but one question were guesses. X'ed out after that. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. > > Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, > that means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before > answering), no lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically > correct scoring, no blaming it on the question or available answers > (give the best one when the exact one you'd like isn't available), no > blaming it on the alcohol (props to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no > blaming it on the recreational drugs you may have done in the 60's, > 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old age, young age, > etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) > > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm (after you finish the last > question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To > Next Level" button) > > Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which > you can research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge > on the missed questions. > > We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. > ;-) > > Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. > > Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. > > Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced > than Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. > I should have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late hour... > ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) > > I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply > since I don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong > answers. :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45698	From: dumasjohnj@netscape.net	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Container that hangs on tank

Container that hangs on tank When you buy a fish at the pet store they first hang a clear plastic container off the tank, add water, net the fish, unnet it into the container. The container is about the size of a small power filter. 1. What is the name they are sold as? 2. Who sells them? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45699	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank

I've seen them called "Dip And Pour" from Tom's Aquarium Supplies. Other manufacturers may have other names for them. Here's one... http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/22484/product.web I just checked PetsMart's site and they have them also, by Tom Aquarium Products but called "Dip 'N Pour". They have a picture of the actual box so that's probably the correct product name. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3523859 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dumasjohnj@... Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Container that hangs on tank Container that hangs on tank When you buy a fish at the pet store they first hang a clear plastic container off the tank, add water, net the fish, unnet it into the container. The container is about the size of a small power filter. 1. What is the name they are sold as? 2. Who sells them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45700	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP

wow, lots of links, will check them out after work, thanks Lenny. All I know is that 2 of the loaches made it through the night and the other 2 died AT lights out, within seconds. I always have my room lights on when the lights go out in the evening, plus the tank has LED night lighting so the tank should not have been very dark. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It shouldn't happen within seconds... of course, I've never tested any > of my > tanks to see how fast the pH change actually takes place. > Theoretically, it > could happen quite quickly since the plants immediately stop using up > CO2, I > would think, as soon as the lights go out. In nature, the lights do not go > out or come one immediately so any change in pH is done slowly as the sun > rises, then reaches full daylight, then slowly sets at night. I always > have > my room lights on completely before I turn out my tank lights so that the > tanks are still at least lit up and the plants would still be doing some > photosynthesis for another hour or so and then I turn out the room lights. > I know most folks do not do this and it works for most of them and as fish > become acclimate to this abrupt change in lighting, it probably would not > shock them as much... but for brand new fish, who may or may not have had > abrupt lighting changes, this could be quite shocking (read more about > shock > below). > > Depending on the CO2, carbonic acid and other acidic levels in the tank, > being produced by the fish, filters, decaying detritus, overall ecology of > the tank, etc.... and the growth activity of the plants using up the CO2 > during the *day*, if there are high levels of CO2 in the water that > are kept > low during the day when the plants are growing fast, then conversely, at > night, when the lights go out, and with your bright lights and the plants > sucking up the CO2 as fast as they can... and then when your lights go > out, > the quick sucking up of CO2 stops and it could happen quickly. It's time > for another experiment with your CO2 and pH levels right before lights out > and then right after lights out and every 10 minutes or so afterwards > to see > how much yours might be changing... if any. > > Of course, the SHOCK of your lights going out right away could have > shocked > the already stressed fish as I mentioned above. > > On my blog's page, Disease & Illness Diagnosis, > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht> > ml, I have a section about Stress and other Non-Disease health issues. > Here's a snip of those sections. I haven't checked all of these links in a > while so let me know if any are no longer working. Just glancing at it, I > know the second one is no longer available. I see where I added the > Wayback > Machine's archived link of the page hoping that MSN would reconsider their > decision to shut down all of their groups... but they didn't. > > Non-Disease Diagnosis: > > Are Your Fish Really Suffering From Disease? A guide to non-disease causes > of illness http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm> (GoldLenny) > > Shock diagnosis: http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw > <http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw> (Hailey) > > The original page on "Shock Diagnosis" is shut down but the original > article > can still be found here, on the Internet Wayback Archive, which takes a > snapshot of every page on the internet and archives the pages... just in > case something like this ever happens to your favorite site... so > here's the > new link... > http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/s > <http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/s> > hock.msnw > > If you ever need to find a copy of one of your old favorites, if you have > the URL, you can just go to the Internet Wayback Archive > http://www.archive.org/web/web.php > <http://www.archive.org/web/web.php> and copy/paste or type out the > URL in the > search field and then you should find that page. You may have to check > a few > of the snapshots to find one that works right. I'm not sure why this > happens, but sometimes the Wayback Archive will crawl a page and pick > up the > background only, which happened to the two 2008 archived pages on the > above > link but the 2004 links worked fine. > > Stress Related Problems: > > http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005 <http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005> > (DataGuru from TheGAB.org) > > http://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/stress.html > <http://www.cs.duke.edu/%7Enarten/faq/stress.html> (GoldLenny) > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476 > <http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476> > (GoldLenny) > > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html> (GoldLenny) > > http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.htm > <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.htm> > (GoldLenny) > > http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php > <http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php> (GoldLenny) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > Does a pH change happen within seconds after the lights go out? > I don't have a filter for the Q tank, it died at some point and I > forgot to > pick up a new one from walmart. Honestly I don't like quarantining > hillstream loaches in an unestablished tank, and since I didn't have one > empty I had to add them to a tank with fish in it. They don't do well in > brand new tanks, in fact that typically kills them faster than putting > them > in an established tank with an illness hiding in it. They need well > established algae for their food supply. > I suppose I could fill the Q tank with water and set it into the > living room > window to grow algae until the next time I get hillstream loaches > ;) Or have hubby pee in it occasionally, LOL. > I added a 4th powerhead to the tank to help increase surface agitation and > made sure they were all pointed at the surface as well. 2 of them are > still > doing fine from what I can see. I saw the spotted sewellia swim off the > front of the glass as soon as the lights went out and when I went to see > where he swam I noticed he was upside down on the bottom of the tank, not > looking very well. When I turned the lights on I saw he had lost all his > color as well, and one of the small gastromyzon's had done the same thing. > As I said I could still see one had it's heart still beating, but was not > breathing :( Looks like I'll be lucky to get 2 of the gastromyzon's to > live > out of 4, and the spotted sewellia was short lived :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Have you ever tested your pH when the lights have been on all day and > > then what might happen to it when the lights go out to see how much it > > changes? > > > > Typically, a pH change (usually a drop) caused by the loss of > > photosynthesis (plants using CO2 and putting out O2) does not cause > > harm to fish like a pH drop caused by other factors (water quality, > > etc.) BUT... I guess there's always a chance. Increase surface > > agitation while the lights are out tonight to increase the O2 levels > > in the tank. > > > > This may be why most acclimation procedure lists suggest that > > acclimation be done with the tank's lighting off, so that the pH is > > already lower to start with so the fish would only have to face any > > change in the pH after they've been in the tank overnight since the > > new fish are already stressed to a certain degree already. > > > > I hope there's not any other kind of health issue involved since I > > noticed you did not quarantine. I wasn't going to say anything until > > now but... BAD AMBER!!! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > > > Tonight is not my night apparently. > > I don't understand why the lights turning off on the tank would > > suddenly kill 2 of my new hillstream loaches. > > The ones in the 125 gallon tank are fine. I have plenty of water > > movement on my 55 gallon so there should be enough oxygen. They > > suddenly turned very pale and stopped moving and floated to the bottom > > of the tank. I picked one up and held it in my hand and turned it > > upside down and I could still see it's little heart beating, but it > > wasn't breathing or moving. > > 2 of them are still fine, not acting any different than when the > > lights were on, I just don't understand what happened. > > Just in case I stole one of the powerheads from the 125 gallon tank > > and moved it to this one to make sure there's enough water movement > > for the > > 2 loaches left. > > On a side note, the guppy's sure are having fun playing in all the new > > water current ;) LOL > > > > Amber, who's now lost 3 fish :( > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45701	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP

Amber,   ANY time I have new fish I never turn any lights off in the tank for just that one whole day.   I've had this happen a number of times and really can't give you the "Y" of it BUT leaving those lights on extra for the day helped.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 10:58 AM wow, lots of links, will check them out after work, thanks Lenny. All I know is that 2 of the loaches made it through the night and the other 2 died AT lights out, within seconds. I always have my room lights on when the lights go out in the evening, plus the tank has LED night lighting so the tank should not have been very dark. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It shouldn't happen within seconds... of course, I've never tested any > of my > tanks to see how fast the pH change actually takes place. > Theoretically, it > could happen quite quickly since the plants immediately stop using up > CO2, I > would think, as soon as the lights go out. In nature, the lights do not go > out or come one immediately so any change in pH is done slowly as the sun > rises, then reaches full daylight, then slowly sets at night. I always > have > my room lights on completely before I turn out my tank lights so that the > tanks are still at least lit up and the plants would still be doing some > photosynthesis for another hour or so and then I turn out the room lights.. > I know most folks do not do this and it works for most of them and as fish > become acclimate to this abrupt change in lighting, it probably would not > shock them as much... but for brand new fish, who may or may not have had > abrupt lighting changes, this could be quite shocking (read more about > shock > below). > > Depending on the CO2, carbonic acid and other acidic levels in the tank, > being produced by the fish, filters, decaying detritus, overall ecology of > the tank, etc.... and the growth activity of the plants using up the CO2 > during the *day*, if there are high levels of CO2 in the water that > are kept > low during the day when the plants are growing fast, then conversely, at > night, when the lights go out, and with your bright lights and the plants > sucking up the CO2 as fast as they can... and then when your lights go > out, > the quick sucking up of CO2 stops and it could happen quickly. It's time > for another experiment with your CO2 and pH levels right before lights out > and then right after lights out and every 10 minutes or so afterwards > to see > how much yours might be changing... if any. > > Of course, the SHOCK of your lights going out right away could have > shocked > the already stressed fish as I mentioned above. > > On my blog's page, Disease & Illness Diagnosis, > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment..ht > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht> > ml, I have a section about Stress and other Non-Disease health issues. > Here's a snip of those sections. I haven't checked all of these links in a > while so let me know if any are no longer working. Just glancing at it, I > know the second one is no longer available. I see where I added the > Wayback > Machine's archived link of the page hoping that MSN would reconsider their > decision to shut down all of their groups... but they didn't. > > Non-Disease Diagnosis: > > Are Your Fish Really Suffering From Disease? A guide to non-disease causes > of illness http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm> (GoldLenny) > > Shock diagnosis: http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw > <http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw> (Hailey) > > The original page on "Shock Diagnosis" is shut down but the original > article > can still be found here, on the Internet Wayback Archive, which takes a > snapshot of every page on the internet and archives the pages... just in > case something like this ever happens to your favorite site... so > here's the > new link... > http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/s > <http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/s> > hock.msnw > > If you ever need to find a copy of one of your old favorites, if you have > the URL, you can just go to the Internet Wayback Archive > http://www.archive.org/web/web.php > <http://www.archive.org/web/web.php> and copy/paste or type out the > URL in the > search field and then you should find that page. You may have to check > a few > of the snapshots to find one that works right. I'm not sure why this > happens, but sometimes the Wayback Archive will crawl a page and pick > up the > background only, which happened to the two 2008 archived pages on the > above > link but the 2004 links worked fine. > > Stress Related Problems: > > http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005 <http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005> > (DataGuru from TheGAB.org) > > http://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/stress.html > <http://www.cs.duke.edu/%7Enarten/faq/stress.html> (GoldLenny) > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476 > <http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476> > (GoldLenny) > > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html> (GoldLenny) > > http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.htm > <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.htm> > (GoldLenny) > > http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php > <http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php> (GoldLenny) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > Does a pH change happen within seconds after the lights go out? > I don't have a filter for the Q tank, it died at some point and I > forgot to > pick up a new one from walmart. Honestly I don't like quarantining > hillstream loaches in an unestablished tank, and since I didn't have one > empty I had to add them to a tank with fish in it. They don't do well in > brand new tanks, in fact that typically kills them faster than putting > them > in an established tank with an illness hiding in it. They need well > established algae for their food supply. > I suppose I could fill the Q tank with water and set it into the > living room > window to grow algae until the next time I get hillstream loaches > ;) Or have hubby pee in it occasionally, LOL. > I added a 4th powerhead to the tank to help increase surface agitation and > made sure they were all pointed at the surface as well. 2 of them are > still > doing fine from what I can see. I saw the spotted sewellia swim off the > front of the glass as soon as the lights went out and when I went to see > where he swam I noticed he was upside down on the bottom of the tank, not > looking very well. When I turned the lights on I saw he had lost all his > color as well, and one of the small gastromyzon's had done the same thing.. > As I said I could still see one had it's heart still beating, but was not > breathing :( Looks like I'll be lucky to get 2 of the gastromyzon's to > live > out of 4, and the spotted sewellia was short lived :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Have you ever tested your pH when the lights have been on all day and > > then what might happen to it when the lights go out to see how much it > > changes? > > > > Typically, a pH change (usually a drop) caused by the loss of > > photosynthesis (plants using CO2 and putting out O2) does not cause > > harm to fish like a pH drop caused by other factors (water quality, > > etc.) BUT... I guess there's always a chance. Increase surface > > agitation while the lights are out tonight to increase the O2 levels > > in the tank. > > > > This may be why most acclimation procedure lists suggest that > > acclimation be done with the tank's lighting off, so that the pH is > > already lower to start with so the fish would only have to face any > > change in the pH after they've been in the tank overnight since the > > new fish are already stressed to a certain degree already. > > > > I hope there's not any other kind of health issue involved since I > > noticed you did not quarantine. I wasn't going to say anything until > > now but... BAD AMBER!!! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > > > Tonight is not my night apparently. > > I don't understand why the lights turning off on the tank would > > suddenly kill 2 of my new hillstream loaches. > > The ones in the 125 gallon tank are fine. I have plenty of water > > movement on my 55 gallon so there should be enough oxygen. They > > suddenly turned very pale and stopped moving and floated to the bottom > > of the tank. I picked one up and held it in my hand and turned it > > upside down and I could still see it's little heart beating, but it > > wasn't breathing or moving. > > 2 of them are still fine, not acting any different than when the > > lights were on, I just don't understand what happened. > > Just in case I stole one of the powerheads from the 125 gallon tank > > and moved it to this one to make sure there's enough water movement > > for the > > 2 loaches left. > > On a side note, the guppy's sure are having fun playing in all the new > > water current ;) LOL > > > > Amber, who's now lost 3 fish :( > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45702	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP

Well I'm confused because I acclimated them at 12 approximately, the lights do not go out until 9pm, so they were on for 9 hours before they went off and suddenly they started to die. I have 2 left this morning. I can't find the spotted sewellia but I figure it's dead and I'm going to have to search for it. I thought I should have 3 left but I can't find the 3rd, perhaps I miss counted at some point, who knows. Either way I see 2 alive and searching for food, not sure which species but they are both gastromyzon. One male one female, hopefully the same species ;) With my luck I have one of each left, LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Amber, > > ANY time I have new fish I never turn any lights off in the tank for > just that one whole day. > > I've had this happen a number of times and really can't give you the > "Y" of > it BUT leaving those lights on extra for the day helped. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 10:58 AM > > wow, lots of links, will check them out after work, thanks Lenny. > > All I know is that 2 of the loaches made it through the night and the > other 2 died AT lights out, within seconds. > I always have my room lights on when the lights go out in the evening, > plus the tank has LED night lighting so the tank should not have been > very dark. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > It shouldn't happen within seconds... of course, I've never tested any > > of my > > tanks to see how fast the pH change actually takes place. > > Theoretically, it > > could happen quite quickly since the plants immediately stop using up > > CO2, I > > would think, as soon as the lights go out. In nature, the lights do > not go > > out or come one immediately so any change in pH is done slowly as > the sun > > rises, then reaches full daylight, then slowly sets at night. I always > > have > > my room lights on completely before I turn out my tank lights so > that the > > tanks are still at least lit up and the plants would still be doing some > > photosynthesis for another hour or so and then I turn out the room > lights.. > > I know most folks do not do this and it works for most of them and > as fish > > become acclimate to this abrupt change in lighting, it probably > would not > > shock them as much... but for brand new fish, who may or may not > have had > > abrupt lighting changes, this could be quite shocking (read more about > > shock > > below). > > > > Depending on the CO2, carbonic acid and other acidic levels in the tank, > > being produced by the fish, filters, decaying detritus, overall > ecology of > > the tank, etc.... and the growth activity of the plants using up the CO2 > > during the *day*, if there are high levels of CO2 in the water that > > are kept > > low during the day when the plants are growing fast, then conversely, at > > night, when the lights go out, and with your bright lights and the > plants > > sucking up the CO2 as fast as they can... and then when your lights go > > out, > > the quick sucking up of CO2 stops and it could happen quickly. It's time > > for another experiment with your CO2 and pH levels right before > lights out > > and then right after lights out and every 10 minutes or so afterwards > > to see > > how much yours might be changing... if any. > > > > Of course, the SHOCK of your lights going out right away could have > > shocked > > the already stressed fish as I mentioned above. > > > > On my blog's page, Disease & Illness Diagnosis, > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment..ht > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment..ht> > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatment.ht>> > > ml, I have a section about Stress and other Non-Disease health issues. > > Here's a snip of those sections. I haven't checked all of these > links in a > > while so let me know if any are no longer working. Just glancing at > it, I > > know the second one is no longer available. I see where I added the > > Wayback > > Machine's archived link of the page hoping that MSN would reconsider > their > > decision to shut down all of their groups... but they didn't. > > > > Non-Disease Diagnosis: > > > > Are Your Fish Really Suffering From Disease? A guide to non-disease > causes > > of illness http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm> > > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm>> (GoldLenny) > > > > Shock diagnosis: http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw > <http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw> > > <http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw > <http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw>> (Hailey) > > > > The original page on "Shock Diagnosis" is shut down but the original > > article > > can still be found here, on the Internet Wayback Archive, which takes a > > snapshot of every page on the internet and archives the pages... just in > > case something like this ever happens to your favorite site... so > > here's the > > new link... > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/s > <http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/s> > > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/s > <http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/s>> > > hock.msnw > > > > If you ever need to find a copy of one of your old favorites, if you > have > > the URL, you can just go to the Internet Wayback Archive > > http://www.archive.org/web/web.php <http://www.archive.org/web/web.php> > > <http://www.archive.org/web/web.php > <http://www.archive.org/web/web.php>> and copy/paste or type out the > > URL in the > > search field and then you should find that page. You may have to check > > a few > > of the snapshots to find one that works right. I'm not sure why this > > happens, but sometimes the Wayback Archive will crawl a page and pick > > up the > > background only, which happened to the two 2008 archived pages on the > > above > > link but the 2004 links worked fine. > > > > Stress Related Problems: > > > > http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005 <http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005> > <http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005 <http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005>> > > (DataGuru from TheGAB.org) > > > > http://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/stress.html > <http://www.cs.duke.edu/%7Enarten/faq/stress.html> > > <http://www.cs.duke.edu/%7Enarten/faq/stress.html > <http://www.cs.duke.edu/%7Enarten/faq/stress.html>> (GoldLenny) > > > > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476 > <http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476> > > > <http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476 > <http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476>> > > (GoldLenny) > > > > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html> > > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html>> (GoldLenny) > > > > > http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.htm > <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.htm> > > > <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.htm > <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.htm>> > > (GoldLenny) > > > > http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php > <http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php> > > <http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php > <http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php>> (GoldLenny) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > > > Does a pH change happen within seconds after the lights go out? > > I don't have a filter for the Q tank, it died at some point and I > > forgot to > > pick up a new one from walmart. Honestly I don't like quarantining > > hillstream loaches in an unestablished tank, and since I didn't have one > > empty I had to add them to a tank with fish in it. They don't do well in > > brand new tanks, in fact that typically kills them faster than putting > > them > > in an established tank with an illness hiding in it. They need well > > established algae for their food supply. > > I suppose I could fill the Q tank with water and set it into the > > living room > > window to grow algae until the next time I get hillstream loaches > > ;) Or have hubby pee in it occasionally, LOL. > > I added a 4th powerhead to the tank to help increase surface > agitation and > > made sure they were all pointed at the surface as well. 2 of them are > > still > > doing fine from what I can see. I saw the spotted sewellia swim off the > > front of the glass as soon as the lights went out and when I went to see > > where he swam I noticed he was upside down on the bottom of the > tank, not > > looking very well. When I turned the lights on I saw he had lost all his > > color as well, and one of the small gastromyzon's had done the same > thing.. > > As I said I could still see one had it's heart still beating, but > was not > > breathing :( Looks like I'll be lucky to get 2 of the gastromyzon's to > > live > > out of 4, and the spotted sewellia was short lived :( > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Have you ever tested your pH when the lights have been on all day and > > > then what might happen to it when the lights go out to see how much it > > > changes? > > > > > > Typically, a pH change (usually a drop) caused by the loss of > > > photosynthesis (plants using CO2 and putting out O2) does not cause > > > harm to fish like a pH drop caused by other factors (water quality, > > > etc.) BUT... I guess there's always a chance. Increase surface > > > agitation while the lights are out tonight to increase the O2 levels > > > in the tank. > > > > > > This may be why most acclimation procedure lists suggest that > > > acclimation be done with the tank's lighting off, so that the pH is > > > already lower to start with so the fish would only have to face any > > > change in the pH after they've been in the tank overnight since the > > > new fish are already stressed to a certain degree already. > > > > > > I hope there's not any other kind of health issue involved since I > > > noticed you did not quarantine. I wasn't going to say anything until > > > now but... BAD AMBER!!! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:15 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > > > > > Tonight is not my night apparently. > > > I don't understand why the lights turning off on the tank would > > > suddenly kill 2 of my new hillstream loaches. > > > The ones in the 125 gallon tank are fine. I have plenty of water > > > movement on my 55 gallon so there should be enough oxygen. They > > > suddenly turned very pale and stopped moving and floated to the bottom > > > of the tank. I picked one up and held it in my hand and turned it > > > upside down and I could still see it's little heart beating, but it > > > wasn't breathing or moving. > > > 2 of them are still fine, not acting any different than when the > > > lights were on, I just don't understand what happened. > > > Just in case I stole one of the powerheads from the 125 gallon tank > > > and moved it to this one to make sure there's enough water movement > > > for the > > > 2 loaches left. > > > On a side note, the guppy's sure are having fun playing in all the new > > > water current ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber, who's now lost 3 fish :( > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You.. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45703	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

Lenny did you miss the livebearer question? LOL I got 10/10 on quiz 1, I got 8/10 on quiz 2, also 8/10 on quiz 3 Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. > > Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, that > means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before answering), no > lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically correct scoring, no > blaming it on the question or available answers (give the best one > when the > exact one you'd like isn't available), no blaming it on the alcohol (props > to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no blaming it on the recreational drugs > you may > have done in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old > age, young age, etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) > > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm > <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm> (after you finish the last > question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To Next > Level" button) > > Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which > you can > research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge on the > missed > questions. > > We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. ;-) > > Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. > > Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. > > Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced than > Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. I should > have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late > hour... > ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) > > I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply since I > don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong answers. :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45704	From: William M	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

When I was breeding angelfish, I would take a "Sterlite" and put s few small holes up near the top for water to flow out. I would them put some kind of float such as Styrofoam or even an air line that is crimped to make it float just above the water line. Then I would put an air driven return (from an old air driven filter to that the water would be pumped into the box that is abut to hold the eggs. This will be doing the water changes and make sure that the water is the same temp as the tank that they are floating in (the same tank that the eggs were laid in. It might not look pretty but it works until the fry are large enough to be moved into a larger tank.You still need to do water changes in the large tank and siphon out any uneaten food or dead fry, but it is not as important as if they are in the smaller tank (5 or 10 gallon). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Lainey, >   > All I can tell you is that I would not do it.  Just how far would I go? > Even one of those plastic boxes made by "Sterlite"---they even come with lids.  You easily find them at Wal-Mart for under 10 bucks.  Throw in a heater pre-set at his old tank temp and air/sponge filter and your off. >   > If he panics or gets caught in that mesh----well you can guess what will happen. Think of it as you would yourself is the best I can tell you. > Would you want to go to Chicago right now?  This very minute? > How about doing some spring-cleaning over the whole house and up-root everything? >   > Well Rams don't like it either.  With them it's simple, the least amount of fuss the better. > They are great fish if given half a chance and you have already done more than that.  Obviously, or they would not be spawning for you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45705	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Thanks so much, Ray - Now does it make the most sense to use the mother tank water for my WCs on the fry tank? Would that be ideal? Each day I could remove a gallon or two from the ten g and refill with mother tank water? I realize this may not be necessary, but if I want to be on the safe side, would this be on the safer side rather than straight RO water? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:35 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Yes, fill the 10 gallon with tank (aquarium) water from your > community tank -- at least half of it anyway if you can't remove it > all. Raise > the temperature slowly to 84 o over the next few days. The fact > that the > parents spawned at cooler than normal breeding temperatures > indicates the eggs > should be viable at 78 o, so there's not only no need to rush in > boosting > the temperature but raising it too fast would be detrimental. ALL > water > parameter adjustments/changes should be done so gradually as fish > haven't evolved > in nature to be able to cope with abrupt differences. > > Yes, set up a sponge filter and place the spawning rock on the > floor of the > tank. This tank will not yet be cycled, but your aquarium water > will help > seed the sponge filter in adequate time to create the very limited and > slowly advancing cycle needed for these fry -- and you might want > to rub some > bacteria culture onto the sponge from your regular filter media > although this > not only should not be necessary, but most will probably even > starve out. > Still, it will ensure your sponge filter gets a good start. > > The point here is that the bioload caused by these fry are so > minimal that > it's not going to cause any parameter (ammonia, nitrite, etc.) > issues yet > unless you grossly overfeed them allowing for an abundance of > uneaten food. > At this stage in the fry's development, there is really no need for > a cycle > as the amount of waste they'll be producing might be equal to one > half grown > male guppy. As the fry grow, so will your nitrifying bacteria, at a > rate > sufficient to keep up with their waste -- when you perform the regular > necessary PWC's that you'll need to do anyway. This is ONE of my > MAJOR reasons for > having you use the larger tank rather than the smaller one which > would have > more of a tendency to built up contaminants faster than your sponge > filter > could grow adequate populations of bacteria. > > You need to keep in mind too, that besides any ammonia and nitrites > being > created, fish are constantly giving off growth inhibiting hormones, > which > would build up twice as fast in the small tank, restricting the > fry's growth. > With the 10 gallon, while you need to keep up with PWCing, you > don't need to > remove/exchange as high of a percentage of the 10 gallon tank's > volume as > compared to the 5 gallon tank's volume. Half of what you will > change out in > the 10 gallon tank would be equal to all you would need to change > out in the > 5 gallon tank, if you were to use the smaller tank. In other words, if > changing out 2 gallons (40% of the total) of the 5 gallon tank > would be > considered as necessary to keep these hormones at a minimal level, > this same 2 > gallons (now only 20% of the total, or half the percentage of this > 40% change of > the 5 gallon tank) changed out of the 10 gallon tank would not be so > drastic yet would still remove the same amount of these hormones. > I'm using this > only as an example, but the idea here is that it's best to keep water > changes for fry at a lower percentage of the tank's volume to > prevent larger water > differences, and the 10 gallon tank will afford you a much larger > leaway in > this issue without causing any undue stress on the fry from > excessive water > change volumes. > > No, you will not get ammonia spikes as there is EXTREMELY little > ammonia > being created from the fry in the beginning. The nitifying bacteria > will grow > with the fry to keep up with their demands, at a more than adequate > rate. > > Yes, you may use floating plants -- which will be an EXTREME > benefit as > they'll remove much of the organic waste at a pace at least equal > to the rate > in which they are given off. Keep us posted as things develop. Ray > > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45706	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

I don't have Rams, but my fish have babies all the time and for me, unfortunately, too many survive and I think it is because of my substrate. I have hazelnut to about walnut size rocks and the babies just hang out in between the rocks until they are too big to eat. My tank is becoming very crowded, very fast and I may have to remove my rocks and put in gravel. The babies instinct is to hide, so they will if given a place to hide. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Blue rams take two Lainey, You would do well to heed what Bill is telling you about the parents if you were to remove the eggs. You may well end up with one member of the pair dead or at the very least severely injured. Besides, moving the eggs to an established, planted tank may seem all well and good, but the fry's well being will now depend directly on what type of substrate you're using. You've not given any kind of description of the "spawning rock" -- whether it's a flat surface or a much rounder object. Once the fry hatch they will have the tendency to fall off the rock (especially if this is a rounded surface), and onto the substrate where the physical characteristics of it will dictate their survival. Without the parents being available to retrieve them, if your gravel is large enough to permit the wrigglers to fall down between the grains, they will be lost not able to extracate themselves when it's time for them to become free-swimming. A good choice of a smaller first food would be microworms if you could gain access to a culture. San Francisco Bay brine shrimp eggs affords a much smaller BBS nauplii when first hatched, as opposed to the Utah (Salt Lake) brine shrimp. While the Ram fry still may not be able to take this immediately, it can be offered much sooner than the week you describe. In the meantime, you may want to obtain a small can of APR (Artificial Plankton & Rotifer) from your LFS or a supplier of it (such as Ken's Fish or Jehmco) in the event your LFS does not carry it. As for temperature, Rams enjoy (require) a temperature similar to that of Discus -- with a slight bit of flexibility. The fry are best raised between 83 o and 86 o F (and the adults should preferably be maintained at least at 80 o or above, except when spawning when the temperature needs to be raised. BTW, whenever removing a spawning surface with a deposit of eggs, a similar (as similar as possible) rock should (always) immediately be replaced in the location that the spawning rock was removed from, and the lights should then be turned out. Note, such rock switching should preferably only be performed in the evening after dusk. If all does not go well this time with having the parents look after them, you may want to then consider removing the eggs the next time around when you're better prepared. As for getting into any reasons why your pair may have eaten the eggs the first time, if you care to know to eliminate these possible causes, you may want to give a better description of your present set up (other fish, lighting of the tank, position of the tank regarding traffic/people walking by, etc.) . We may be better able to assist you in eliminating their causes of eating the eggs. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45707	From: William M	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank

I ave some that are called "lee's" specimen cups. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I've seen them called "Dip And Pour" from Tom's Aquarium Supplies. Other > manufacturers may have other names for them. > > Here's one... > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/22484/product.web > > I just checked PetsMart's site and they have them also, by Tom Aquarium > Products but called "Dip 'N Pour". They have a picture of the actual box so > that's probably the correct product name. > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3523859 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of dumasjohnj@... > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Container that hangs on tank > > > Container that hangs on tank > > When you buy a fish at the pet store they first hang a clear plastic > container off the tank, add water, net the fish, unnet it into the > container. The container is about the size of a small power filter. > > 1. What is the name they are sold as? > > 2. Who sells them? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45708	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP

I know most acclimation instructions say to have the lights out as the room lit tank, being darker, is less stressful to new fish but I guess if you are acclimating them to a tank that is lit up, then it might be better to leave the lights on until they've grown accustomed to their new home. I turn the lights out of my tanks when introducing new fish since I believe that is the least stressful way based on all that I've read. Stressed fish like to hide out, usually, so a darker tank makes them feel like they are hiding better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP Amber,   ANY time I have new fish I never turn any lights off in the tank for just that one whole day.   I've had this happen a number of times and really can't give you the "Y" of it BUT leaving those lights on extra for the day helped.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 10:58 AM wow, lots of links, will check them out after work, thanks Lenny. All I know is that 2 of the loaches made it through the night and the other 2 died AT lights out, within seconds. I always have my room lights on when the lights go out in the evening, plus the tank has LED night lighting so the tank should not have been very dark. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It shouldn't happen within seconds... of course, I've never tested any > of my tanks to see how fast the pH change actually takes place. > Theoretically, it > could happen quite quickly since the plants immediately stop using up > CO2, I would think, as soon as the lights go out. In nature, the > lights do not go out or come one immediately so any change in pH is > done slowly as the sun rises, then reaches full daylight, then slowly > sets at night. I always have my room lights on completely before I > turn out my tank lights so that the tanks are still at least lit up > and the plants would still be doing some photosynthesis for another > hour or so and then I turn out the room lights.. > I know most folks do not do this and it works for most of them and as > fish become acclimate to this abrupt change in lighting, it probably > would not shock them as much... but for brand new fish, who may or may > not have had abrupt lighting changes, this could be quite shocking > (read more about shock below). > > Depending on the CO2, carbonic acid and other acidic levels in the > tank, being produced by the fish, filters, decaying detritus, overall > ecology of the tank, etc.... and the growth activity of the plants > using up the CO2 during the *day*, if there are high levels of CO2 in > the water that are kept low during the day when the plants are growing > fast, then conversely, at night, when the lights go out, and with your > bright lights and the plants sucking up the CO2 as fast as they can... > and then when your lights go out, the quick sucking up of CO2 stops > and it could happen quickly. It's time for another experiment with > your CO2 and pH levels right before lights out and then right after > lights out and every 10 minutes or so afterwards to see how much yours > might be changing... if any. > > Of course, the SHOCK of your lights going out right away could have > shocked the already stressed fish as I mentioned above. > > On my blog's page, Disease & Illness Diagnosis, > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatm > ent..ht > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treat > ment.ht> ml, I have a section about Stress and other Non-Disease > health issues. > Here's a snip of those sections. I haven't checked all of these links > in a while so let me know if any are no longer working. Just glancing > at it, I know the second one is no longer available. I see where I > added the Wayback Machine's archived link of the page hoping that MSN > would reconsider their decision to shut down all of their groups... > but they didn't. > > Non-Disease Diagnosis: > > Are Your Fish Really Suffering From Disease? A guide to non-disease > causes of illness http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm> (GoldLenny) > > Shock diagnosis: http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw > <http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw> (Hailey) > > The original page on "Shock Diagnosis" is shut down but the original > article can still be found here, on the Internet Wayback Archive, > which takes a snapshot of every page on the internet and archives the > pages... just in case something like this ever happens to your > favorite site... so here's the new link... > http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHe > alth/s > <http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishH > ealth/s> > hock.msnw > > If you ever need to find a copy of one of your old favorites, if you > have the URL, you can just go to the Internet Wayback Archive > http://www.archive.org/web/web.php > <http://www.archive.org/web/web.php> and copy/paste or type out the > URL in the search field and then you should find that page. You may > have to check a few of the snapshots to find one that works right. I'm > not sure why this happens, but sometimes the Wayback Archive will > crawl a page and pick up the background only, which happened to the > two 2008 archived pages on the above link but the 2004 links worked > fine. > > Stress Related Problems: > > http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005 <http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005> > (DataGuru from TheGAB.org) > > http://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/stress.html > <http://www.cs.duke.edu/%7Enarten/faq/stress.html> (GoldLenny) > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476 > <http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=247 > 6> > (GoldLenny) > > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html> (GoldLenny) > > http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.ht > m > <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.h > tm> > (GoldLenny) > > http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php > <http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php> (GoldLenny) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > Does a pH change happen within seconds after the lights go out? > I don't have a filter for the Q tank, it died at some point and I > forgot to pick up a new one from walmart. Honestly I don't like > quarantining hillstream loaches in an unestablished tank, and since I > didn't have one empty I had to add them to a tank with fish in it. > They don't do well in brand new tanks, in fact that typically kills > them faster than putting them in an established tank with an illness > hiding in it. They need well established algae for their food supply. > I suppose I could fill the Q tank with water and set it into the > living room window to grow algae until the next time I get hillstream > loaches > ;) Or have hubby pee in it occasionally, LOL. > I added a 4th powerhead to the tank to help increase surface agitation > and made sure they were all pointed at the surface as well. 2 of them > are still doing fine from what I can see. I saw the spotted sewellia > swim off the front of the glass as soon as the lights went out and > when I went to see where he swam I noticed he was upside down on the > bottom of the tank, not looking very well. When I turned the lights on > I saw he had lost all his color as well, and one of the small > gastromyzon's had done the same thing.. > As I said I could still see one had it's heart still beating, but was > not breathing :( Looks like I'll be lucky to get 2 of the > gastromyzon's to live out of 4, and the spotted sewellia was short > lived :( > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Have you ever tested your pH when the lights have been on all day > > and then what might happen to it when the lights go out to see how > > much it changes? > > > > Typically, a pH change (usually a drop) caused by the loss of > > photosynthesis (plants using CO2 and putting out O2) does not cause > > harm to fish like a pH drop caused by other factors (water quality, > > etc.) BUT... I guess there's always a chance. Increase surface > > agitation while the lights are out tonight to increase the O2 levels > > in the tank. > > > > This may be why most acclimation procedure lists suggest that > > acclimation be done with the tank's lighting off, so that the pH is > > already lower to start with so the fish would only have to face any > > change in the pH after they've been in the tank overnight since the > > new fish are already stressed to a certain degree already. > > > > I hope there's not any other kind of health issue involved since I > > noticed you did not quarantine. I wasn't going to say anything until > > now but... BAD AMBER!!! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > > > Tonight is not my night apparently. > > I don't understand why the lights turning off on the tank would > > suddenly kill 2 of my new hillstream loaches. > > The ones in the 125 gallon tank are fine. I have plenty of water > > movement on my 55 gallon so there should be enough oxygen. They > > suddenly turned very pale and stopped moving and floated to the > > bottom of the tank. I picked one up and held it in my hand and > > turned it upside down and I could still see it's little heart > > beating, but it wasn't breathing or moving. > > 2 of them are still fine, not acting any different than when the > > lights were on, I just don't understand what happened. > > Just in case I stole one of the powerheads from the 125 gallon tank > > and moved it to this one to make sure there's enough water movement > > for the > > 2 loaches left. > > On a side note, the guppy's sure are having fun playing in all the > > new water current ;) LOL > > > > Amber, who's now lost 3 fish :(

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45709	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: WELL CRAP

I turned the lights out on the 125 gallon while acclimating the botia's, but I turned it back on about a half hour after they were already in the tank and acclimated. Perhaps I should have done the same thing in the 55 gallon? The botia's are doing great. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I know most acclimation instructions say to have the lights out as the > room > lit tank, being darker, is less stressful to new fish but I guess if > you are > acclimating them to a tank that is lit up, then it might be better to > leave > the lights on until they've grown accustomed to their new home. I turn the > lights out of my tanks when introducing new fish since I believe that > is the > least stressful way based on all that I've read. Stressed fish like to > hide > out, usually, so a darker tank makes them feel like they are hiding > better. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:09 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > Amber, > > ANY time I have new fish I never turn any lights off in the tank for just > that one whole day. > > I've had this happen a number of times and really can't give you the > "Y" of > it BUT leaving those lights on extra for the day helped. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 10:58 AM > > wow, lots of links, will check them out after work, thanks Lenny. > > All I know is that 2 of the loaches made it through the night and the > other > 2 died AT lights out, within seconds. > I always have my room lights on when the lights go out in the evening, > plus > the tank has LED night lighting so the tank should not have been very > dark. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > It shouldn't happen within seconds... of course, I've never tested any > > of my tanks to see how fast the pH change actually takes place. > > Theoretically, it > > could happen quite quickly since the plants immediately stop using up > > CO2, I would think, as soon as the lights go out. In nature, the > > lights do not go out or come one immediately so any change in pH is > > done slowly as the sun rises, then reaches full daylight, then slowly > > sets at night. I always have my room lights on completely before I > > turn out my tank lights so that the tanks are still at least lit up > > and the plants would still be doing some photosynthesis for another > > hour or so and then I turn out the room lights.. > > I know most folks do not do this and it works for most of them and as > > fish become acclimate to this abrupt change in lighting, it probably > > would not shock them as much... but for brand new fish, who may or may > > not have had abrupt lighting changes, this could be quite shocking > > (read more about shock below). > > > > Depending on the CO2, carbonic acid and other acidic levels in the > > tank, being produced by the fish, filters, decaying detritus, overall > > ecology of the tank, etc.... and the growth activity of the plants > > using up the CO2 during the *day*, if there are high levels of CO2 in > > the water that are kept low during the day when the plants are growing > > fast, then conversely, at night, when the lights go out, and with your > > bright lights and the plants sucking up the CO2 as fast as they can... > > and then when your lights go out, the quick sucking up of CO2 stops > > and it could happen quickly. It's time for another experiment with > > your CO2 and pH levels right before lights out and then right after > > lights out and every 10 minutes or so afterwards to see how much yours > > might be changing... if any. > > > > Of course, the SHOCK of your lights going out right away could have > > shocked the already stressed fish as I mentioned above. > > > > On my blog's page, Disease & Illness Diagnosis, > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatm > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treatm> > > ent..ht > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treat > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/disease-illness-diagnosis-treat> > > ment.ht> ml, I have a section about Stress and other Non-Disease > > health issues. > > Here's a snip of those sections. I haven't checked all of these links > > in a while so let me know if any are no longer working. Just glancing > > at it, I know the second one is no longer available. I see where I > > added the Wayback Machine's archived link of the page hoping that MSN > > would reconsider their decision to shut down all of their groups... > > but they didn't. > > > > Non-Disease Diagnosis: > > > > Are Your Fish Really Suffering From Disease? A guide to non-disease > > causes of illness http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm> > > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm>> (GoldLenny) > > > > Shock diagnosis: http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw > <http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw> > > <http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw > <http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/shock.msnw>> (Hailey) > > > > The original page on "Shock Diagnosis" is shut down but the original > > article can still be found here, on the Internet Wayback Archive, > > which takes a snapshot of every page on the internet and archives the > > pages... just in case something like this ever happens to your > > favorite site... so here's the new link... > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHe > <http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishHe> > > alth/s > > > <http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishH > <http://web.archive.org/web/20040131193318/http://groups.msn.com/FishH> > > ealth/s> > > hock.msnw > > > > If you ever need to find a copy of one of your old favorites, if you > > have the URL, you can just go to the Internet Wayback Archive > > http://www.archive.org/web/web.php <http://www.archive.org/web/web.php> > > <http://www.archive.org/web/web.php > <http://www.archive.org/web/web.php>> and copy/paste or type out the > > URL in the search field and then you should find that page. You may > > have to check a few of the snapshots to find one that works right. I'm > > not sure why this happens, but sometimes the Wayback Archive will > > crawl a page and pick up the background only, which happened to the > > two 2008 archived pages on the above link but the 2004 links worked > > fine. > > > > Stress Related Problems: > > > > http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005 <http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005> > <http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005 <http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA005>> > > (DataGuru from TheGAB.org) > > > > http://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/stress.html > <http://www.cs.duke.edu/%7Enarten/faq/stress.html> > > <http://www.cs.duke.edu/%7Enarten/faq/stress.html > <http://www.cs.duke.edu/%7Enarten/faq/stress.html>> (GoldLenny) > > > > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476 > <http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=2476> > > > <http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=247 > <http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1791&articleid=247> > > 6> > > (GoldLenny) > > > > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html> > > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html > <http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-stress.html>> (GoldLenny) > > > > > http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.ht > <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.ht> > > m > > > <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.h > <http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/signs_of_stress_and_disease.h> > > tm> > > (GoldLenny) > > > > http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php > <http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php> > > <http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php > <http://www.algone.com/fishstress.php>> (GoldLenny) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > > > Does a pH change happen within seconds after the lights go out? > > I don't have a filter for the Q tank, it died at some point and I > > forgot to pick up a new one from walmart. Honestly I don't like > > quarantining hillstream loaches in an unestablished tank, and since I > > didn't have one empty I had to add them to a tank with fish in it. > > They don't do well in brand new tanks, in fact that typically kills > > them faster than putting them in an established tank with an illness > > hiding in it. They need well established algae for their food supply. > > I suppose I could fill the Q tank with water and set it into the > > living room window to grow algae until the next time I get hillstream > > loaches > > ;) Or have hubby pee in it occasionally, LOL. > > I added a 4th powerhead to the tank to help increase surface agitation > > and made sure they were all pointed at the surface as well. 2 of them > > are still doing fine from what I can see. I saw the spotted sewellia > > swim off the front of the glass as soon as the lights went out and > > when I went to see where he swam I noticed he was upside down on the > > bottom of the tank, not looking very well. When I turned the lights on > > I saw he had lost all his color as well, and one of the small > > gastromyzon's had done the same thing.. > > As I said I could still see one had it's heart still beating, but was > > not breathing :( Looks like I'll be lucky to get 2 of the > > gastromyzon's to live out of 4, and the spotted sewellia was short > > lived :( > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Have you ever tested your pH when the lights have been on all day > > > and then what might happen to it when the lights go out to see how > > > much it changes? > > > > > > Typically, a pH change (usually a drop) caused by the loss of > > > photosynthesis (plants using CO2 and putting out O2) does not cause > > > harm to fish like a pH drop caused by other factors (water quality, > > > etc.) BUT... I guess there's always a chance. Increase surface > > > agitation while the lights are out tonight to increase the O2 levels > > > in the tank. > > > > > > This may be why most acclimation procedure lists suggest that > > > acclimation be done with the tank's lighting off, so that the pH is > > > already lower to start with so the fish would only have to face any > > > change in the pH after they've been in the tank overnight since the > > > new fish are already stressed to a certain degree already. > > > > > > I hope there's not any other kind of health issue involved since I > > > noticed you did not quarantine. I wasn't going to say anything until > > > now but... BAD AMBER!!! ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:15 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] WELL CRAP > > > > > > Tonight is not my night apparently. > > > I don't understand why the lights turning off on the tank would > > > suddenly kill 2 of my new hillstream loaches. > > > The ones in the 125 gallon tank are fine. I have plenty of water > > > movement on my 55 gallon so there should be enough oxygen. They > > > suddenly turned very pale and stopped moving and floated to the > > > bottom of the tank. I picked one up and held it in my hand and > > > turned it upside down and I could still see it's little heart > > > beating, but it wasn't breathing or moving. > > > 2 of them are still fine, not acting any different than when the > > > lights were on, I just don't understand what happened. > > > Just in case I stole one of the powerheads from the 125 gallon tank > > > and moved it to this one to make sure there's enough water movement > > > for the > > > 2 loaches left. > > > On a side note, the guppy's sure are having fun playing in all the > > > new water current ;) LOL > > > > > > Amber, who's now lost 3 fish :( > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45710	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the intake tube? I've never used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure what that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry won't get sucked up. Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the three hour trip to the closest LFS:( Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45711	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

How thick is the sponge? does it get clocked with detritus and plant matter easily? If it has VERY small holes and is not just single cell foam (gosh I think that's what it's called), then it should be sufficient. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need > to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it > OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the > intake tube? I've never used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure > what that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus > sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS > and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry > won't get sucked up. > > Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the > three hour trip to the closest LFS:( > > Thanks very much, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45712	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

I can make the sponge as thick as I want by cutting it out. It is fine mesh type foam. It gets totally clogged and black and disgusting in a planted tank, which is good, right? I mean, there won't be much detritis in a bare fry tank, but whatever gunk there is will get clogged. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 14, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > How thick is the sponge? does it get clocked with detritus and plant > matter easily? > If it has VERY small holes and is not just single cell foam (gosh I > think that's what it's called), then it should be sufficient. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need >> to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it >> OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the >> intake tube? I've never used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure >> what that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus >> sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS >> and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry >> won't get sucked up. >> >> Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the >> three hour trip to the closest LFS:( >> >> Thanks very much, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45713	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

Hi Lainey,   Here is the sponge filter:  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3936&pcatid=3936 They are not expensive and in your case I would buy two to have on hand.  If you had one running in the parent tank now all you would need do is transfer it the the fry tank.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:34 AM I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need  to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it  OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the  intake tube? I've never  used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure  what that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus  sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS  and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry  won't get sucked up. Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the  three hour trip to the closest LFS:( Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45714	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

Yes, but so might the fry!  Check my last message just sent a minute ago.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:41 AM I can make the sponge as thick as I want by cutting it out. It is  fine mesh type foam. It gets totally clogged and black and disgusting  in a planted tank, which is good, right? I mean, there won't be much  detritis in a bare fry tank, but whatever gunk there is will get  clogged. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 14, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > How thick is the sponge? does it get clocked with detritus and plant > matter easily? > If it has VERY small holes and is not just single cell foam (gosh I > think that's what it's called), then it should be sufficient. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need >> to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it >> OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the >> intake tube? I've never used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure >> what that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus >> sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS >> and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry >> won't get sucked up. >> >> Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the >> three hour trip to the closest LFS:( >> >> Thanks very much, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original  > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old  > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on  > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest,  > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail  > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group  > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45715	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Fw: Re: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

--- On Thu, 1/14/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:52 AM > Hi Lainey, >   > Here is the sponge filter: > >  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3936&pcatid=3936 > > They are not expensive and in your case I would buy two to > have on hand.  If you had one running in the parent > tank now all you would need do is transfer it the the fry > tank. >   > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:34 AM > > > I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge > filter. Do I need  > to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, > or is it  > OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a > sponge on the  > intake tube? I've never  used a "sponge" > filter, so not quite sure  > what that is or whether I already have this set up with the > HOB plus  > sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from > the LFS  > and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so > that fry  > won't get sucked up. > > Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge > off on the  > three hour trip to the closest LFS:( > > Thanks very much, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No > E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >     (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45716	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

I just placed an overnight order with the Drs for this filter plus some feeds for the fry. Hopefully that should do it! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 14, 2010, at 11:52 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > Here is the sponge filter: > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579 > +3936&pcatid=3936 > > They are not expensive and in your case I would buy two to have on > hand. If you had one running in the parent tank now all you would > need do is transfer it the the fry tank. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:34 AM > > I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need > to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it > OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the > intake tube? I've never used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure > what that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus > sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS > and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry > won't get sucked up. > > Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the > three hour trip to the closest LFS:( > > Thanks very much, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45717	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

Now your cookin' Lady!  Lainey, I too have the misfortune of living in a town that is not the "hub" of the Tropical Fish Industry.  That said, I can't even get a half descent fish or a Hornwort plant and yes, that includes Rams!   Doctors Foster and Smith have been invaluable to me since my return to the hobby.  They have about anything you can think of and if they don't, they will apologize for it, and then go out and get it for you!  I've never had a problem or issue with them at all.   Now remember to save some time, put these new filters into the parent tank if the fry are not wigglers and free swimming, if they are, rise the new filters in the PARENT tank first and then put them into the fry tank for use.  And as Ray and I told you, use as much water for the new setup fry tank from the parent tank as possible.  Do not mix new or fresh water into their tank until later.  Ray will probably advise you best on when and how to do this for now only use the parent water if you can.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 12:00 PM > I just placed an overnight order with > the Drs for this filter plus  > some feeds for the fry. Hopefully that should do it! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 14, 2010, at 11:52 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > Here is the sponge filter: > > > >  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579 > > > +3936&pcatid=3936 > > > > They are not expensive and in your case I would buy > two to have on  > > hand.  If you had one running in the parent tank > now all you would  > > need do is transfer it the the fry tank. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with > sponge > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:34 AM > > > > I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge > filter. Do I need > > to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge > filter, or is it > > OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a > sponge on the > > intake tube? I've never  used a "sponge" filter, > so not quite sure > > what that is or whether I already have this set up > with the HOB plus > > sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam > from the LFS > > and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center > so that fry > > won't get sucked up. > > > > Please let me know if this is no good and I need to > charge off on the > > three hour trip to the closest LFS:( > > > > Thanks very much, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45718	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

GREAT JOB!!! I still remember when you were a newbie out here. ;-) Of course, I still remember when I was a newbie too, fortunately, not that many years ago. Nope. The livebearer question was easy for me. I missed the catfish question on the first quiz, which I'm not sure should be on quiz 1 anyhow. I won't say which answer I put since I don't want to clue in any of the lurkers yet. ;-) I hate their available answers for the first question. I've emailed the webmaster about changing the the numbers on that one since those are old school time frames. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! Lenny did you miss the livebearer question? LOL I got 10/10 on quiz 1, I got 8/10 on quiz 2, also 8/10 on quiz 3 Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. > > Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, > that means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before > answering), no lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically > correct scoring, no blaming it on the question or available answers > (give the best one when the exact one you'd like isn't available), no > blaming it on the alcohol (props to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no > blaming it on the recreational drugs you may have done in the 60's, > 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old age, young age, > etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) > > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm > <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm> (after you finish the > last question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance > To Next Level" button) > > Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which > you can research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge > on the missed questions. > > We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. > ;-) > > Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. > > Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. > > Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced > than Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. > I should have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on > the late hour... > ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) > > I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply > since I don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong > answers. :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45719	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank

Ahhh yes. Lee's is another manufacturer, like Tom's, that makes all sorts of miscellaneous aquarium products. I should have known they would also make the specimen containers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William M Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Container that hangs on tank I ave some that are called "lee's" specimen cups. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I've seen them called "Dip And Pour" from Tom's Aquarium Supplies. > Other manufacturers may have other names for them. > > Here's one... > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/22484/product.web > > I just checked PetsMart's site and they have them also, by Tom > Aquarium Products but called "Dip 'N Pour". They have a picture of > the actual box so that's probably the correct product name. > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3523859 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of dumasjohnj@... > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Container that hangs on tank > > > Container that hangs on tank > > When you buy a fish at the pet store they first hang a clear plastic > container off the tank, add water, net the fish, unnet it into the > container. The container is about the size of a small power filter. > > 1. What is the name they are sold as? > > 2. Who sells them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45720	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

Well, an HOB is probably more powerful than you need for a fry tank. A sponge filter is a very slow volume filter so the weak swimming fry are not stressed out by the fast water movement. If you have to use an HOB, fill the tank as much as possible so that there is NO waterfall and the water from the HOB just flows back into the water, instead of splashing. While it's still the same gallons per hour flow rate, it's less disrupting to the overall water flow in a tank. Some HOB's, like AquaClears and others, have a knob or throttle on them to slow down the flow rate. If yours doesn't have this, then as a DIY fix, you could put a cork (either cork or styrofoam), with a hole drilled through it, into the intake tube to make the intake opening smaller and then put the strainer back on and then the sponge over the strainer. This cork with a hole in it would limit the water flow into the intake tube which would serve the same purpose. You'll have to experiment. Possibly, just the sponge over the intake strainer will slow down the water intake enough. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the intake tube? I've never used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure what that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry won't get sucked up. Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the three hour trip to the closest LFS:( Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45721	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

Pores and open-cell foam. ;-) Take two points off your quiz scores. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge How thick is the sponge? does it get clocked with detritus and plant matter easily? If it has VERY small holes and is not just single cell foam (gosh I think that's what it's called), then it should be sufficient. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need > to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it > OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the > intake tube? I've never used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure what > that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus > sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS > and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry > won't get sucked up. > > Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the > three hour trip to the closest LFS:( > > Thanks very much, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45722	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

You can also make a DIY sponge/corner filter if you already have an air pump.. instead of buying one. Here's one made out of an empty fish food container. "A 5 Minute DIY Sponge Filter" http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.html And, since he uses a handful of "cycled" gravel from the mother tank, this filter is fully cycled for the fry tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge Hi Lainey,   Here is the sponge filter:  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3936&pca tid=3936 They are not expensive and in your case I would buy two to have on hand.  If you had one running in the parent tank now all you would need do is transfer it the the fry tank.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:34 AM I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the intake tube? I've never  used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure what that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry won't get sucked up. Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the three hour trip to the closest LFS:( Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45723	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Blue rams take two

Hi again Lainey, If you're maintaining your tanks properly, the aquarium water should be very close to your tap water. As you should only need to do 20% (at most) PWC's at a time, tap water would be preferable as (1) it's not a drastic change, and will be a "refresher/invigorator" to stimulate the fish since it has 0 (zero) DOC's -- dissolved organic carbons and (2) tank water will always contain some growth inhibiting hormones and nitrates which the fry don't need more of. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45724	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

Lainey, I would not entrust an HOB filter to not pull small fry up against the intake tube -- even if it's wrapped in sponge material. Some HOB's are adjustable and might be considered -- with such protection -- but otherwise, the water current pull can be too strong once they get too near the intake. You can use this filter for now though, until the fry become free-swimming, but I wouldn't advise using it afterwards. So, you still have a good 6 days to get a sponge filter -- which, BTW, operates off of an air pump. As there will be NO waste generated up until the time the fry start eating, and the very minimal amount for at least the first week, there is really no particular rush for the filter just so you get it going during the first few days of their eating to get the bacteria starting to grow. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45725	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

Scratch that HOB filter altogether since it will not be serving any further purpose after the fry start swimming (you'll be removing it then) and it will not be doing ANYTHING while the fry are in the wriggler stage since there will be nothing to filter. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45726	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge

Well crap *sniff* guess I was close ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Pores and open-cell foam. ;-) > > Take two points off your quiz scores. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:40 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sponge filter vs HOB with sponge > > How thick is the sponge? does it get clocked with detritus and plant > matter > easily? > If it has VERY small holes and is not just single cell foam (gosh I think > that's what it's called), then it should be sufficient. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > I'm not sure I'm thinking correctly about my sponge filter. Do I need > > to go to the LFS (not too L) today and get a sponge filter, or is it > > OK to use a HOB (I have a cycled one right now) with a sponge on the > > intake tube? I've never used a "sponge" filter, so not quite sure what > > that is or whether I already have this set up with the HOB plus > > sponge. I have been cutting out a chunk of spongy foam from the LFS > > and sticking the filter tube into a hole in the center so that fry > > won't get sucked up. > > > > Please let me know if this is no good and I need to charge off on the > > three hour trip to the closest LFS:( > > > > Thanks very much, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45727	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: 911

Hi, I just brought three baby clown fish (1") instead of the giant 3-4" ones I had. I examined the fish at the store but didn't notice the white spot disease under the pale lights there, I put them in a heat bag to keep them worm and brought them home. Now I'm 30 miles away and I just called the store, they told me to bring the fish so they could treat them along with theirs and if they're completely cured I can take them. Now the problem is that I can't take them back right now, they'll have to wait 36 hours here. I prepared a 2 gal tank with a heater, and filled it with water from my 34 gal. The temp is 77 , there's no filter whatsoever but I can put an airstone. Any recommendations about the heat, PWC, anything I could do to keep the fish in their best condition until they took the journey back to the store? Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45728	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

Very often they give me names that I can't find when I google them. Or they know the "family" name of the fish, or even give me a name that turns out to be related to a completely different fish. There are many intruders to this business that I can't take any of their advise for granted. Tristan > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles > > Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45729	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Loads of thanks Lenny.. I'm really encouraged to make my own fish food, but how do you know if the shrimp is "full grown"? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm late checking mail today so I'm not sure if anyone replied yet but here > are a few websites with the recipes, depending on your type of fish. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp > > http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html > > http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html > > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 > > http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > > > Detailed recipe of this jello fish food and description of how exactly you > combine it please? Thanks > > Tristan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45730	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.

Okay so still not quite sure why most of the new fish died in my 55 gallon but nothing I put in the 125 gallon died. Either way I have a couple thoughts I wanted to clear up before I have any more fish sent in. My only thoughts are perhaps the temperature change was too much, there was NO heat pack in the box that I could see, which I found a little odd, even though the fish are "cooler water" fish, I'd think 50 degree weather or cooler is just a bit TOO cool for fish that live in 60-75 degree water typically. All I know is that the bags felt very cool to the touch when I took them out of the stryo foam box. Should I have let them come up to room temps with the bags still tied up with air in them? Would it be better to leave the box of fish unopened until after work and then start the acclimation process with the tank lights out? Obviously a lunch break is not quite enough time to fully acclimate and watch the fish to see how they are acting for awhile. I knew it was rushed but I didn't want to leave the fish in the bags for too long either, I wasn't sure which was worse to do. The only way I can acclimate them sooner is to have them arrive on a tuesday (our shortest day of the week), I could then start acclimating them about 4 hours after they arrive, otherwise the rest of the week they would sit in the box until at least 5-6 pm. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45731	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Full grown shrimp (also known as prawns) will be at least a couple inches (depending on the species of shrimp), the biggest ones with the tails still attached (and heads still on) will be around 4 inches or so. The best kind of shrimp to buy for your "gel food mix" is whole shrimp with the tails and heads still attached, especially females with eggs. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > Loads of thanks Lenny.. I'm really encouraged to make my own fish > food, but how do you know if the shrimp is "full grown"? > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I'm late checking mail today so I'm not sure if anyone replied yet > but here > > are a few websites with the recipes, depending on your type of fish. > > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php> > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp> > > > > http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html > <http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html> > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html> > > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18> > > > > http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm > <http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:42 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > > > > > > Detailed recipe of this jello fish food and description of how > exactly you > > combine it please? Thanks > > > > Tristan > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45732	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: A couple tanks in Florida if you are in the area

Palm coast, Florida 500 gallon fiberglass "Fish Box". http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290391255118&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 Same seller as above 220 Gallon aquarium http://cgi.ebay.com/220-gallon-acrylic-fish-tank_W0QQitemZ290391254120QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439caae468#shId If I could get this shipped I would snap it up immediately. -Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45733	From: mymooser	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: New to Marine Life

Hi Everyone, My name is Angela. I'm new to the group, and new to marine life. I currently have two goldfish and two beta's. For Christmas I got a 16 gallon Biorb from my new mother-in-law. She also got me the Marine conversion kit. I've heard concern about these tanks, but I'm not able to return this gift as our relationship is a new sensitive one, if you know what I mean... I would like to keep one maybe two clown fish in it, along with a few cleaning shrimp or crab. Before I get the tank ready to set up and start cycling, I wanted to join this group to learn more about saltwater fish and educate myself as best I can to make my situation work out. I know that many enthusiasts here will be critical about me keeping this new tank, but if anyone can offer their help and suggestions, I would appreciate it. My goal is to make this tank work out as best and safe as possible. I would love your thoughts and educational support! -Angela

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45734	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life

I don't know much about biorbs, but I do know they are aesthetically pleasing, and I'd say go for it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "mymooser" <rumoosed@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 4:12 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New to Marine Life Hi Everyone, My name is Angela. I'm new to the group, and new to marine life. I currently have two goldfish and two beta's. For Christmas I got a 16 gallon Biorb from my new mother-in-law. She also got me the Marine conversion kit. I've heard concern about these tanks, but I'm not able to return this gift as our relationship is a new sensitive one, if you know what I mean... I would like to keep one maybe two clown fish in it, along with a few cleaning shrimp or crab. Before I get the tank ready to set up and start cycling, I wanted to join this group to learn more about saltwater fish and educate myself as best I can to make my situation work out. I know that many enthusiasts here will be critical about me keeping this new tank, but if anyone can offer their help and suggestions, I would appreciate it. My goal is to make this tank work out as best and safe as possible. I would love your thoughts and educational support! -Angela ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45735	From: harry perry	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts /Amber

Next order insist on a heat pack. Then they can wait for you and be reasonable safe. Harry --- On Thu, 1/14/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 4:11 PM   Okay so still not quite sure why most of the new fish died in my 55 gallon but nothing I put in the 125 gallon died. Either way I have a couple thoughts I wanted to clear up before I have any more fish sent in. My only thoughts are perhaps the temperature change was too much, there was NO heat pack in the box that I could see, which I found a little odd, even though the fish are "cooler water" fish, I'd think 50 degree weather or cooler is just a bit TOO cool for fish that live in 60-75 degree water typically. All I know is that the bags felt very cool to the touch when I took them out of the stryo foam box. Should I have let them come up to room temps with the bags still tied up with air in them? Would it be better to leave the box of fish unopened until after work and then start the acclimation process with the tank lights out? Obviously a lunch break is not quite enough time to fully acclimate and watch the fish to see how they are acting for awhile. I knew it was rushed but I didn't want to leave the fish in the bags for too long either, I wasn't sure which was worse to do. The only way I can acclimate them sooner is to have them arrive on a tuesday (our shortest day of the week), I could then start acclimating them about 4 hours after they arrive, otherwise the rest of the week they would sit in the box until at least 5-6 pm. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Not so, Jello fish food

Yeah, it definitely depends on the species. Down here in N'Awlins and Southern Louisiana, we have Gulf Shrimp that grow HUGE... http://www.fairtradescharters.com/cateri1.jpg OK... that was a joke pic but they do get BIG... probably 8" to 10" total length. They sort and sell them based on size and that is measured by the count per pound. GIANT Gulf Shrimp are usually in the 8-12 per pound range. JUMBO Gulf Shrimp are in the 10-15 ct. per pound range. Then you get down to normal sized shrimp in the 30 ct. range... and then the small shrimp cocktail and gumbo sized shrimp in the 70-100 ct. range. I can't find a Louisiana website that shows them next to a ruler but I did find this Texas website that shows how big just a tail on our MONSTER shrimp can get. It's the same Gulf Shrimp, just from next door in Texas. ;-) http://store.wspisp.net/texaslonghornshrimp/Detail.bok?searchpath=4045de2af7 3e84d7fa88&category=Shrimp&start=1&total=3&no=3 Here's a Louisiana page in case anyone wants to buy some. ;-) http://www.cajun-shop.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AGCG S&Product_Code=FS25&Category_Code=WFC Of course, for my fish, I buy the cheap Chinese imported shrimp that come in 1 pound frozen packages for a couple of bucks. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food Full grown shrimp (also known as prawns) will be at least a couple inches (depending on the species of shrimp), the biggest ones with the tails still attached (and heads still on) will be around 4 inches or so. The best kind of shrimp to buy for your "gel food mix" is whole shrimp with the tails and heads still attached, especially females with eggs. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > Loads of thanks Lenny.. I'm really encouraged to make my own fish > food, but how do you know if the shrimp is "full grown"? > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I'm late checking mail today so I'm not sure if anyone replied yet > but here > > are a few websites with the recipes, depending on your type of fish. > > > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php> > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp> > > > > http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html > <http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html> > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html> > > > > http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18> > > > > http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm > <http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:42 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not so, Jello fish food > > > > > > Detailed recipe of this jello fish food and description of how > exactly you > > combine it please? Thanks > > > > Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45737	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: A couple tanks in Florida if you are in the area

That 500G would make a nice pond or an indoor garage holding tank for over-wintering pond fish... and the 15 other tanks included, all for $50.00!!! I bet someone is going to snatch that up quick. That 200G acrylic looks like it has a lot of wear and tear on it so some acrylic polishing will be in order to get it looking nice again and it's set up for a an center overflow as well. I wish they had a pic of the bottom to show if there's a big hole in the bottom or if the black overflow is just for intaking at the top through the overflow slots and then returning at the bottom or that side return outlet... or if it goes out the bottom of the tank into a sump? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A couple tanks in Florida if you are in the area Palm coast, Florida 500 gallon fiberglass "Fish Box". http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290391255118&ssPageName=A DME:B:SS:US:1123 Same seller as above 220 Gallon aquarium http://cgi.ebay.com/220-gallon-acrylic-fish-tank_W0QQitemZ290391254120QQcmdZ ViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439caae468#shId If I could get this shipped I would snap it up immediately. -Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45738	From: Noura	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

I scored 8 then 6 then 7. I had to repeat quiz#2 in order to gain access to quiz#3. The species questions were mainly the ones I missed. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, that means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before answering), no lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically correct scoring, no blaming it on the question or available answers (give the best one when the exact one you'd like isn't available), no blaming it on the alcohol (props to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no blaming it on the recreational drugs you may have done in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old age, young age, etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm (after you finish the last question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To Next Level" button) Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which you can research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge on the missed questions. We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. ;-) Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced than Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. I should have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late hour... ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply since I don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong answers. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45739	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life

Angela, I just took a look at the BiOrb tanks, and they were just as I expected, a globe-like tank. That is one strike against them. If you fill them up all the way, you have very little surface area, which will limit the number of fish you can keep. If you only fill it half way, for maximum surface area, you will be limited in the number of fish you can keep. Another strike is that the smaller the volume of water, the less room you have for error. This goes double for marine fish that are, generally, much more sensitive to water quality than most of their freshwater cousins. What I would do is to trade the BiOrb in on another tank, say a 55, if you want to go marine, meanwhile thanking your MIL for helping you get a larger tank, which you really need to get properly started. A tank such as the one she presented to you will present a number of problems that, at your stage of experience, may well be beyond you capacity to handle. You can also add that, at some point in the future, when you have the experience, and you have just the place to use it as an accent, you will most certainly go for such a tank. Or something like that. I'm a guy. I really don't care <g.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mymooser Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to Marine Life Hi Everyone, My name is Angela. I'm new to the group, and new to marine life. I currently have two goldfish and two beta's. For Christmas I got a 16 gallon Biorb from my new mother-in-law. She also got me the Marine conversion kit. I've heard concern about these tanks, but I'm not able to return this gift as our relationship is a new sensitive one, if you know what I mean... I would like to keep one maybe two clown fish in it, along with a few cleaning shrimp or crab. Before I get the tank ready to set up and start cycling, I wanted to join this group to learn more about saltwater fish and educate myself as best I can to make my situation work out. I know that many enthusiasts here will be critical about me keeping this new tank, but if anyone can offer their help and suggestions, I would appreciate it. My goal is to make this tank work out as best and safe as possible. I would love your thoughts and educational support! -Angela

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45740	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

10 10 9 But there are some questions in all the quizzes where one must make a choice because none of the answers really is the correct one. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, that means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before answering), no lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically correct scoring, no blaming it on the question or available answers (give the best one when the exact one you'd like isn't available), no blaming it on the alcohol (props to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no blaming it on the recreational drugs you may have done in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old age, young age, etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm (after you finish the last question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To Next Level" button) Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which you can research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge on the missed questions. We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. ;-) Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced than Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. I should have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late hour... ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply since I don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong answers. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45741	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life

Inverts? A marine snail or shrimp? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 5:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to Marine Life I don't know much about biorbs, but I do know they are aesthetically pleasing, and I'd say go for it. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "mymooser" <rumoosed@comcast. <mailto:rumoosed%40comcast.net> net> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 4:12 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New to Marine Life Hi Everyone, My name is Angela. I'm new to the group, and new to marine life. I currently have two goldfish and two beta's. For Christmas I got a 16 gallon Biorb from my new mother-in-law. She also got me the Marine conversion kit. I've heard concern about these tanks, but I'm not able to return this gift as our relationship is a new sensitive one, if you know what I mean... I would like to keep one maybe two clown fish in it, along with a few cleaning shrimp or crab. Before I get the tank ready to set up and start cycling, I wanted to join this group to learn more about saltwater fish and educate myself as best I can to make my situation work out. I know that many enthusiasts here will be critical about me keeping this new tank, but if anyone can offer their help and suggestions, I would appreciate it. My goal is to make this tank work out as best and safe as possible. I would love your thoughts and educational support! -Angela ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45742	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

10 9 6 _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, that means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before answering), no lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically correct scoring, no blaming it on the question or available answers (give the best one when the exact one you'd like isn't available), no blaming it on the alcohol (props to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no blaming it on the recreational drugs you may have done in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old age, young age, etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) http://www.thetropi <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm> caltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm (after you finish the last question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To Next Level" button) Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which you can research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge on the missed questions. We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. ;-) Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced than Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. I should have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late hour... ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply since I don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong answers. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45743	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

Well done! I expected such excellence from you! ;-) I hope you made a note of the errant questions/answers.... to be discussed later. I know there is the first question in the first quiz that does not provide a choice that I would like but I never saw any glaring issues in the other two quizzes. Maybe that's why I missed some other answers... ooops.. I forgot, NO excuses. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! 10 10 9 But there are some questions in all the quizzes where one must make a choice because none of the answers really is the correct one. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, that means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before answering), no lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically correct scoring, no blaming it on the question or available answers (give the best one when the exact one you'd like isn't available), no blaming it on the alcohol (props to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no blaming it on the recreational drugs you may have done in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old age, young age, etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm (after you finish the last question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To Next Level" button) Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which you can research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge on the missed questions. We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. ;-) Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced than Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. I should have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late hour... ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply since I don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong answers. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45744	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

That's good if you mainly missed the species questions. While it might be nice to know that info off the top of your head, it's more important to know about water quality and tank maintenance issues. You can always look up species information, as needed. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! I scored 8 then 6 then 7. I had to repeat quiz#2 in order to gain access to quiz#3. The species questions were mainly the ones I missed. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, that means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before answering), no lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically correct scoring, no blaming it on the question or available answers (give the best one when the exact one you'd like isn't available), no blaming it on the alcohol (props to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no blaming it on the recreational drugs you may have done in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old age, young age, etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm (after you finish the last question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To Next Level" button) Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which you can research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge on the missed questions. We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. ;-) Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced than Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. I should have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late hour... ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply since I don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong answers. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45745	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

I do not think that there is any real rhyme or reason for common names of fish. Generally, each country has a name for a fish in its own language, or vernacular. Common names have many sources. They could be from the person who discovered the fish, the scientist who described the fish, the exporter, the importer, the sales person, etc. Whatever makes a fish sell, sticks. Scientific names follow a fairly strict protocol in the naming of fish. If it is a new fish, it generally sticks, at least until another taxonomist gets his hands on it and redescribes it. Sometimes this will result in a new name. If that is the case, the name then goes into a review, and if enough agree with the new name, it sticks, if not, it falls by the wayside (but never out, which can be a topic for another time).There is also a common names book used in science that is revised every few years to update, and, and maybe subtract names to match the current species names. It may be worthwhile to note that while most fish have scientific names (there are many still awaiting a description to be classified), not all named fish have common names. There is no rule that says scientists need to follow the book, but, I think the consensus is that they do to avoid confusion. As far as using the syllable or word fish in a fish's common name, live with it. Learn to deal with it. To you it may seem to be somewhat redundant, to most, it does not. Suck it up! Oh yeah, the real gourami is _Osphronemus goramy_. For those brave enough to try to keep one or two, they grow to a mere 24"+. They are also a deep bodied fish, quite ugly, so plan accordingly. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Lenny, Can't answer all your points right now, but paradise fish has been called that since the 1800's, and the paradise gourami name was first seen by myself in the late 1990's, in a shop. So, if you have nothing else, the paradise fish takes precedence over the paradise gourami moniker. I'll try for a more complete answer tonight. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles \\Steve//, For discussion purposes... The *why* is one name more "common" is the big question for me, Paradise Fish or Paradise Gourami? I see both names listed as common names on many profiles and/or when talking about these fish in forums, although Paradise Fish is more commonly used for a reason I theorize below. Just off the top of my head, you have fish from the Trichogaster, Trichopsis and Colisa and probably other Genera (or would that be Geni? ;-)) that are all commonly called Gourami as part of their common names, so why not from the Macropodus Genus? They are all from the Osphronemidae Family. In my readings, I thought the following is why folks more recently started calling them Gourami... if they look like a duck, quack like a duck, act like a duck, breathe surface air like a duck and build a bubble nest like a duck... then they must be a duck... oops... I mean Gourami... right? Or is the Paradise Fish more of a goose or a swan instead of a duck... like a Betta isn't a Gourami? All this said, I 100% wholeheartedly agree that it would be best to use or at least include the scientific name alongside the common name when buying, selling or sometimes even when discussing certain species of fish. In my readings, I saw several mentions that this fish was one of, if not the first fish ever imported and introduced to the *tropical* fish keeping hobby, so quite possibly, it was named without using Gourami, since the other Gourami were not in the hobby yet. Last but not least, I think it's kind of redundant to have a common name of a fish that includes "fish" as part of it's common name... like goldfish fish and Paradise Fish fish... and possibly others. The same can be said about the common names swordfish, dogfish or catfish and I understand that "fish" was added to the common name so that folks immediately realize that fish were being discussed, not swords, dogs and cats.... so I guess the same could be said about Paradise and Gold. ;-) But with the swordfish and catfish, they are generally called that because they resemble those other objects/animals (sword and whiskers) but I'm not sure about the dogfish which is actually a shark and doesn't have any features of a dog... unless it's been known to lick itself whenever company comes over. LOL In all of my scuba diving adventures, I've yet to see that happen. ;-) Paradise Fish and Goldfish do not have any *real* physical features that would lend themselves to paradise or gold (other than the color on the "original" goldfish inbreeds). Hmmmmm.. I think I've come a full 360 on this discussion, all by myself.... but my point is that the Paradise Fish and Goldfish should probably have been named Paradise Gourami and Golden Dwarf Carp (now that's an oxymoron! lol).. or something like that instead of using "fish" as part of their common names. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Donna, There are many reasons for this from the shop personnel not knowing their fish to someone changing the name of a fish to make it more saleable or pricier because no one has ever heard the name before. If, throughout the distribution chain, they were to use the scientific name, it would make things a lot easier for us, but, the great unwashed masses think that scientific names are just lo, like, difficult, um, to, you know, like understand. There is a volume, published every few years, that lists all the accepted, by science, common names of fish, along with the scientific name of the fish the name is applied to. However, it is really only the scientists that use this listing. If it were in wider use then it may be a bit easier to ID a fish by common name. If I may pull another thread into this discussion, someone yesterday asked about the paradise fish. I've seen in, in recent years, being sold as paradise gourami. Outside of the fact that it is not a gourami (and neither are most of those labeled so in the hobby, why change the common name from paradise fish to paradise gourami? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: 911

Are these saltwater clown fish (as in "Finding Nemo"?) or some type of freshwater fish? Since the store is going to take them back, call the store and ask them what to do so that you follow their directions in case something goes wrong and the fish do not make it, the store will be more prone to giving you a refund or store credit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 911 Hi, I just brought three baby clown fish (1") instead of the giant 3-4" ones I had. I examined the fish at the store but didn't notice the white spot disease under the pale lights there, I put them in a heat bag to keep them worm and brought them home. Now I'm 30 miles away and I just called the store, they told me to bring the fish so they could treat them along with theirs and if they're completely cured I can take them. Now the problem is that I can't take them back right now, they'll have to wait 36 hours here. I prepared a 2 gal tank with a heater, and filled it with water from my 34 gal. The temp is 77 , there's no filter whatsoever but I can put an airstone. Any recommendations about the heat, PWC, anything I could do to keep the fish in their best condition until they took the journey back to the store? Tristan ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45747	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.

I'm not sure I'd ever buy fish that have to be shipped in the middle of winter unless I knew for certain that the seller was going to do every thing possible to maintain temperature inside the shipping box.. which means styrofoam shipping box, heat packs (or cool packs in the dead of summer), etc. And that's for me down here in N'Awlins.. up there, your winters are so much worse than mine... although we did hit below freezing for three straight nights last week... BRRRRRR!!!!! So much for global warming. Temperature change is certainly one of the things that will cause a fish to go into shock and die abruptly. You should have taken the temp of the water when the fish arrived and if it was too cold, you should have notified the seller immediately for any tropical fish. Any cool water species may be able to tolerate the cooler water better. In either case, you shouldn't change their water temp by more than 1F per hour and 2F per day under normal circumstances. If they arrived and the water temp in the bags was in the 60's, this would mean a LONG time frame of slowly bringing the water temp back up so you would probably have to push the limits in that situation. Even then, I would not go more than 1F per hour, so you might have a LONG day/night ahead of you. A heat pack to keep the water at least in the 70's would have been a good addition. Did the bags have pure or mixed O2 in them or was it just plain air? If pure or mixed O2, that would give you a much longer time frame for how long the fish can stay in the bags compared to plain air filling the bag. Yes, trying to rush the acclimation during your lunch break was not a good idea. It would have been better to wait until you were off work and could do the proper testing and monitoring and slow, possibly drip acclimation, especially if there were big differences between temperature, pH and other water parameters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future. Okay so still not quite sure why most of the new fish died in my 55 gallon but nothing I put in the 125 gallon died. Either way I have a couple thoughts I wanted to clear up before I have any more fish sent in. My only thoughts are perhaps the temperature change was too much, there was NO heat pack in the box that I could see, which I found a little odd, even though the fish are "cooler water" fish, I'd think 50 degree weather or cooler is just a bit TOO cool for fish that live in 60-75 degree water typically. All I know is that the bags felt very cool to the touch when I took them out of the stryo foam box. Should I have let them come up to room temps with the bags still tied up with air in them? Would it be better to leave the box of fish unopened until after work and then start the acclimation process with the tank lights out? Obviously a lunch break is not quite enough time to fully acclimate and watch the fish to see how they are acting for awhile. I knew it was rushed but I didn't want to leave the fish in the bags for too long either, I wasn't sure which was worse to do. The only way I can acclimate them sooner is to have them arrive on a tuesday (our shortest day of the week), I could then start acclimating them about 4 hours after they arrive, otherwise the rest of the week they would sit in the box until at least 5-6 pm. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45748	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.

The bags were just filled with air, I'm not sure what the temp of the water was, but easily around 65 ish, from the feel of it. The temps have been in the 40's here, not sure about NY where it was shipped from. There actually were heat packs in the box, I found them in the very bottom under a bunch of newspaper insulation type material and a couple pieces of cardboard so I'm curious as to why the water was so cool to the touch. Next time I get them I will wait until I'm off of work and hopefully he can ship them on a monday, so that I get them tuesday (my shortest day of the week). I will also take the temp of the water when they arrive as well, so that I know how fast they can be acclimated to my temps. The fish were mostly cooler water fish (60-75ish range), except the 4 guppy's, and they were still somewhat active in the bag, so it must not have been TOO cold. The seller never responded to my emails, letting him know of the deaths. I specifically stated that I did not expect a refund or new fish, I just wanted to inform him of the situation. Perhaps he is busy with his fish orders still. I still have 3 of the gastromyzon's left today, all doing well and exploring the tank. I'm glad some of them lived. ALL the fish I put downstairs in the 125 gallon made it just fine. I really enjoy the botia kubotai's, and will be getting a few more for the group, 4 just doesn't seem quite enough to me. The new 4 sewellia lineolata's in the 125 gallon seem to have brought out the babies, I've counted at least 3 babies since adding the adults yesterday and prior to adding them I could never find the babies. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I'm not sure I'd ever buy fish that have to be shipped in the middle of > winter unless I knew for certain that the seller was going to do every > thing > possible to maintain temperature inside the shipping box.. which means > styrofoam shipping box, heat packs (or cool packs in the dead of summer), > etc. And that's for me down here in N'Awlins.. up there, your winters are > so much worse than mine... although we did hit below freezing for three > straight nights last week... BRRRRRR!!!!! So much for global warming. > > Temperature change is certainly one of the things that will cause a > fish to > go into shock and die abruptly. You should have taken the temp of the > water > when the fish arrived and if it was too cold, you should have notified the > seller immediately for any tropical fish. Any cool water species may be > able to tolerate the cooler water better. In either case, you shouldn't > change their water temp by more than 1F per hour and 2F per day under > normal > circumstances. If they arrived and the water temp in the bags was in the > 60's, this would mean a LONG time frame of slowly bringing the water temp > back up so you would probably have to push the limits in that situation. > Even then, I would not go more than 1F per hour, so you might have a LONG > day/night ahead of you. A heat pack to keep the water at least in the 70's > would have been a good addition. > > Did the bags have pure or mixed O2 in them or was it just plain air? If > pure or mixed O2, that would give you a much longer time frame for how > long > the fish can stay in the bags compared to plain air filling the bag. > > Yes, trying to rush the acclimation during your lunch break was not a good > idea. It would have been better to wait until you were off work and could > do the proper testing and monitoring and slow, possibly drip acclimation, > especially if there were big differences between temperature, pH and other > water parameters. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to > me in > the future. > > Okay so still not quite sure why most of the new fish died in my 55 gallon > but nothing I put in the 125 gallon died. Either way I have a couple > thoughts I wanted to clear up before I have any more fish sent in. > My only thoughts are perhaps the temperature change was too much, > there was > NO heat pack in the box that I could see, which I found a little odd, even > though the fish are "cooler water" fish, I'd think 50 degree weather or > cooler is just a bit TOO cool for fish that live in 60-75 degree water > typically. All I know is that the bags felt very cool to the touch when I > took them out of the stryo foam box. Should I have let them come up to > room > temps with the bags still tied up with air in them? > Would it be better to leave the box of fish unopened until after work and > then start the acclimation process with the tank lights out? > Obviously a lunch break is not quite enough time to fully acclimate and > watch the fish to see how they are acting for awhile. I knew it was rushed > but I didn't want to leave the fish in the bags for too long either, I > wasn't sure which was worse to do. The only way I can acclimate them > sooner > is to have them arrive on a tuesday (our shortest day of the week), I > could > then start acclimating them about 4 hours after they arrive, otherwise the > rest of the week they would sit in the box until at least 5-6 pm. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45749	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: On the subject of HOB sponges

I have two AquaClear filters on my tank. Is there any way to unclog a sponge once it starts to clog up? I have one sponge that will go three days after a normal cleaning and then it lifts with the water pressure to the point where the biofilter is above water and the filter basket pops the lid up. By normal cleaning, I mean a good squeezing and rubbing in removed tank water or treated tap water. I've also tried running straight hot tap water through it from the top down to flush things out the way they came in. (with the two HOB's the good bacteria should renew fairly quickly). Is it time to ditch this sponge and get a new one? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45750	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: POP QUIZ!!!

Ya gotta have excuses, no fun otherwise. Some of those species I know really NOTHING about. I'm very silo'ed. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! Well done! I expected such excellence from you! ;-) I hope you made a note of the errant questions/answers.... to be discussed later. I know there is the first question in the first quiz that does not provide a choice that I would like but I never saw any glaring issues in the other two quizzes. Maybe that's why I missed some other answers... ooops.. I forgot, NO excuses. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! 10 10 9 But there are some questions in all the quizzes where one must make a choice because none of the answers really is the correct one. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:45 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] POP QUIZ!!! OK. Lets see how everybody does on this POP QUIZ. Reporting your scores will be based on the Honor System... so Mike, that means no cheating (no Googling or other searching before answering), no lying, no fudging, no bell-curving, no politically correct scoring, no blaming it on the question or available answers (give the best one when the exact one you'd like isn't available), no blaming it on the alcohol (props to Jamie Foxx' song... lol), no blaming it on the recreational drugs you may have done in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, etc., no blaming it on old age, young age, etc. OR any other excuses. ;-) http://www.thetropi <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm> caltank.co.uk/quiz1.htm (after you finish the last question on Quiz 1, note your score and then click the "Advance To Next Level" button) Post your results for each Quiz but not your missed questions which you can research on your own to improve and/or refresh your knowledge on the missed questions. We can then discuss some of the answers that I feel are not accurate. ;-) Dang... I missed one on Quiz 1. 9 out of 10 for me on that one. Dang... I missed two on Quiz 2. 8 out of 10 for me on that one. Quiz 3. 9 out of 10, which I feel good about since it's more advanced than Quizzes 1 & 2. I'm still kicking myself for both 1 & 2's scores. I should have had 10 out of 10 on each of them but I'll blame it on the late hour... ooops.. I forgot, NO EXCUSES! ;-) I'll post my missed questions and my bad answers in a later reply since I don't want to give any of you any heads-up on the wrong answers. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45751	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Gastromyzon Scitilus

Okay so I have one new picture so far of my only Gastromyzon Scitilus. I have 2 Gastromyzon Zebrinus but they are a little camera shy, I have not gotten a photo of them yet. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45752	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Gastromyzon Scitilus

So... are you gonna name them Upper and Lower? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gastromyzon Scitilus Okay so I have one new picture so far of my only Gastromyzon Scitilus. I have 2 Gastromyzon Zebrinus but they are a little camera shy, I have not gotten a photo of them yet. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45753	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Just for Bill

Hey bill, check out this auction... Hehehe. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwmixed&1263869598 Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45754	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Gastromyzon Scitilus

Wasn't planning on it ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > So... are you gonna name them Upper and Lower? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gastromyzon Scitilus > > Okay so I have one new picture so far of my only Gastromyzon Scitilus. > I have 2 Gastromyzon Zebrinus but they are a little camera shy, I have not > gotten a photo of them yet. > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45755	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Profiles

Yeah... I'm not gonna suck it up. I'm gonna go on a crusade to end fish name redundancy. Starting today, goldfish are now officially named Dwarf Carp var. Golden, calico Dwarf Carp will be var. Calico, etc.. LOL As far as O. goramy, I've seen that one's profile on Mongabay before for the Giant Gourami, http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Osphronemus_goramy.html, and yep, you're right, they do have a face only a mother could love.... aka butt-ugly! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Giant.gourami.arp.jpg So, why is this the only "real gourami".... because of "goramy" in it's scientific name? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles I do not think that there is any real rhyme or reason for common names of fish. Generally, each country has a name for a fish in its own language, or vernacular. Common names have many sources. They could be from the person who discovered the fish, the scientist who described the fish, the exporter, the importer, the sales person, etc. Whatever makes a fish sell, sticks. Scientific names follow a fairly strict protocol in the naming of fish. If it is a new fish, it generally sticks, at least until another taxonomist gets his hands on it and redescribes it. Sometimes this will result in a new name. If that is the case, the name then goes into a review, and if enough agree with the new name, it sticks, if not, it falls by the wayside (but never out, which can be a topic for another time).There is also a common names book used in science that is revised every few years to update, and, and maybe subtract names to match the current species names. It may be worthwhile to note that while most fish have scientific names (there are many still awaiting a description to be classified), not all named fish have common names. There is no rule that says scientists need to follow the book, but, I think the consensus is that they do to avoid confusion. As far as using the syllable or word fish in a fish's common name, live with it. Learn to deal with it. To you it may seem to be somewhat redundant, to most, it does not. Suck it up! Oh yeah, the real gourami is _Osphronemus goramy_. For those brave enough to try to keep one or two, they grow to a mere 24"+. They are also a deep bodied fish, quite ugly, so plan accordingly. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Lenny, Can't answer all your points right now, but paradise fish has been called that since the 1800's, and the paradise gourami name was first seen by myself in the late 1990's, in a shop. So, if you have nothing else, the paradise fish takes precedence over the paradise gourami moniker. I'll try for a more complete answer tonight. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles \\Steve//, For discussion purposes... The *why* is one name more "common" is the big question for me, Paradise Fish or Paradise Gourami? I see both names listed as common names on many profiles and/or when talking about these fish in forums, although Paradise Fish is more commonly used for a reason I theorize below. Just off the top of my head, you have fish from the Trichogaster, Trichopsis and Colisa and probably other Genera (or would that be Geni? ;-)) that are all commonly called Gourami as part of their common names, so why not from the Macropodus Genus? They are all from the Osphronemidae Family. In my readings, I thought the following is why folks more recently started calling them Gourami... if they look like a duck, quack like a duck, act like a duck, breathe surface air like a duck and build a bubble nest like a duck... then they must be a duck... oops... I mean Gourami... right? Or is the Paradise Fish more of a goose or a swan instead of a duck... like a Betta isn't a Gourami? All this said, I 100% wholeheartedly agree that it would be best to use or at least include the scientific name alongside the common name when buying, selling or sometimes even when discussing certain species of fish. In my readings, I saw several mentions that this fish was one of, if not the first fish ever imported and introduced to the *tropical* fish keeping hobby, so quite possibly, it was named without using Gourami, since the other Gourami were not in the hobby yet. Last but not least, I think it's kind of redundant to have a common name of a fish that includes "fish" as part of it's common name... like goldfish fish and Paradise Fish fish... and possibly others. The same can be said about the common names swordfish, dogfish or catfish and I understand that "fish" was added to the common name so that folks immediately realize that fish were being discussed, not swords, dogs and cats.... so I guess the same could be said about Paradise and Gold. ;-) But with the swordfish and catfish, they are generally called that because they resemble those other objects/animals (sword and whiskers) but I'm not sure about the dogfish which is actually a shark and doesn't have any features of a dog... unless it's been known to lick itself whenever company comes over. LOL In all of my scuba diving adventures, I've yet to see that happen. ;-) Paradise Fish and Goldfish do not have any *real* physical features that would lend themselves to paradise or gold (other than the color on the "original" goldfish inbreeds). Hmmmmm.. I think I've come a full 360 on this discussion, all by myself.... but my point is that the Paradise Fish and Goldfish should probably have been named Paradise Gourami and Golden Dwarf Carp (now that's an oxymoron! lol).. or something like that instead of using "fish" as part of their common names. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Donna, There are many reasons for this from the shop personnel not knowing their fish to someone changing the name of a fish to make it more saleable or pricier because no one has ever heard the name before. If, throughout the distribution chain, they were to use the scientific name, it would make things a lot easier for us, but, the great unwashed masses think that scientific names are just lo, like, difficult, um, to, you know, like understand. There is a volume, published every few years, that lists all the accepted, by science, common names of fish, along with the scientific name of the fish the name is applied to. However, it is really only the scientists that use this listing. If it were in wider use then it may be a bit easier to ID a fish by common name. If I may pull another thread into this discussion, someone yesterday asked about the paradise fish. I've seen in, in recent years, being sold as paradise gourami. Outside of the fact that it is not a gourami (and neither are most of those labeled so in the hobby, why change the common name from paradise fish to paradise gourami? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Profiles Why can't you get the correct name from the LFS?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45756	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/14/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.

Guppies are actually cool water fish also although they do well at tropical temps also... as are several other common fish that are sold as strictly tropical fish... but they aren't... like Zebra Danios, Pearl Danios, Buenos Aires Tetras and some other barbs and tetras, most native fish, etc. http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm Isn't your upstairs tank warmer than the downstairs tank? And remember that the temp of the water when you receive them might not have been consistent during the entire shipment. Heat packs will only affect the inside of the box's ambient temperature by a certain number of degrees. They do not have thermostats where they will heat up more if the box is in colder climates and then heat up less as the box gets into not so cold climates. Presume they were in the mid-70's when shipped, then they could have gotten down into the 60's during the shipping in the cargo hold of a plane or back of a truck, then warmed up a little once on the ground in a warehouse, then to your home, etc... so the fish already have been through several temperature changes that have them stressed out so it's always best to acclimate them as best (and possibly as slowly) as possible once you get them... especially if you're not quarantining them since all of those temperature changes, especially lowering temps could easily cause an Ich outbreak. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future. The bags were just filled with air, I'm not sure what the temp of the water was, but easily around 65 ish, from the feel of it. The temps have been in the 40's here, not sure about NY where it was shipped from. There actually were heat packs in the box, I found them in the very bottom under a bunch of newspaper insulation type material and a couple pieces of cardboard so I'm curious as to why the water was so cool to the touch. Next time I get them I will wait until I'm off of work and hopefully he can ship them on a monday, so that I get them tuesday (my shortest day of the week). I will also take the temp of the water when they arrive as well, so that I know how fast they can be acclimated to my temps. The fish were mostly cooler water fish (60-75ish range), except the 4 guppy's, and they were still somewhat active in the bag, so it must not have been TOO cold. The seller never responded to my emails, letting him know of the deaths. I specifically stated that I did not expect a refund or new fish, I just wanted to inform him of the situation. Perhaps he is busy with his fish orders still. I still have 3 of the gastromyzon's left today, all doing well and exploring the tank. I'm glad some of them lived. ALL the fish I put downstairs in the 125 gallon made it just fine. I really enjoy the botia kubotai's, and will be getting a few more for the group, 4 just doesn't seem quite enough to me. The new 4 sewellia lineolata's in the 125 gallon seem to have brought out the babies, I've counted at least 3 babies since adding the adults yesterday and prior to adding them I could never find the babies. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I'm not sure I'd ever buy fish that have to be shipped in the middle > of winter unless I knew for certain that the seller was going to do > every thing possible to maintain temperature inside the shipping box.. > which means styrofoam shipping box, heat packs (or cool packs in the > dead of summer), etc. And that's for me down here in N'Awlins.. up > there, your winters are so much worse than mine... although we did hit > below freezing for three straight nights last week... BRRRRRR!!!!! So > much for global warming. > > Temperature change is certainly one of the things that will cause a > fish to go into shock and die abruptly. You should have taken the temp > of the water when the fish arrived and if it was too cold, you should > have notified the seller immediately for any tropical fish. Any cool > water species may be able to tolerate the cooler water better. In > either case, you shouldn't change their water temp by more than 1F per > hour and 2F per day under normal circumstances. If they arrived and > the water temp in the bags was in the 60's, this would mean a LONG > time frame of slowly bringing the water temp back up so you would > probably have to push the limits in that situation. > Even then, I would not go more than 1F per hour, so you might have a > LONG day/night ahead of you. A heat pack to keep the water at least in > the 70's would have been a good addition. > > Did the bags have pure or mixed O2 in them or was it just plain air? > If pure or mixed O2, that would give you a much longer time frame for > how long the fish can stay in the bags compared to plain air filling > the bag. > > Yes, trying to rush the acclimation during your lunch break was not a > good idea. It would have been better to wait until you were off work > and could do the proper testing and monitoring and slow, possibly drip > acclimation, especially if there were big differences between > temperature, pH and other water parameters. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to > me in the future. > > Okay so still not quite sure why most of the new fish died in my 55 > gallon but nothing I put in the 125 gallon died. Either way I have a > couple thoughts I wanted to clear up before I have any more fish sent in. > My only thoughts are perhaps the temperature change was too much, > there was NO heat pack in the box that I could see, which I found a > little odd, even though the fish are "cooler water" fish, I'd think 50 > degree weather or cooler is just a bit TOO cool for fish that live in > 60-75 degree water typically. All I know is that the bags felt very > cool to the touch when I took them out of the stryo foam box. Should I > have let them come up to room temps with the bags still tied up with > air in them? > Would it be better to leave the box of fish unopened until after work > and then start the acclimation process with the tank lights out? > Obviously a lunch break is not quite enough time to fully acclimate > and watch the fish to see how they are acting for awhile. I knew it > was rushed but I didn't want to leave the fish in the bags for too > long either, I wasn't sure which was worse to do. The only way I can > acclimate them sooner is to have them arrive on a tuesday (our > shortest day of the week), I could then start acclimating them about 4 > hours after they arrive, otherwise the rest of the week they would sit > in the box until at least 5-6 pm. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45757	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

Wow... that one jumped from 1.00 to 40.00 QUICK!!! This seller is a kick with his 3rd person stories (a common sales technique). I'm surprised he isn't throwing in a couple of choice closes in his monologues... oops... I meant ads. I bet he was a used car salesman in a previous life. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill Hey bill, check out this auction... Hehehe. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwmixed&1263869598 Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45758	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges

The sponges should not be getting clogged up that quickly. Maybe you aren't cleaning them enough time or your tank is too heavily stocked or the filter is getting too much plant detritus or something. You should be doing weekly tank and filter maintenance in most cases, which would mean vacuuming the gravel good, then removing a gallon or so of tank water for filter cleaning and taking the sponge and other filter media out of the filter and rinsing, squeezing, sloshing the media around in the removed water until it's pretty clean. When you take the filter media basket/holder out, and open it up, it has little pinchers on each side which should hold the sponge and other media in place so it should not float up. After cleaning the sponge, put it down into the bottom of the holder, with the holder folded open and then when you fold up the two sides, the pinchers should go into the sponge and hold it at the bottom. Same with other filter media. If you want to clean the sponge really good, like under hot tap water and squeezing over and over until it's running clear, then make sure you do NOT do any cleaning of the other filter media during that particular time so you do not kill off too many N-bacteria at one time. I just cleaned one of my AC's sponges like this today and rinsed it over and over and squeezed it under tap water over and over until the water was running through it crystal clear. Just don't do this to all your media at once, especially not in a heavily stocked tank and/or un-planted tank. You have a little more margin of error for nitrogen cycle issues in a lightly stocked tank and planted tanks. If you use the bio-stones, (I'm drawing a blank on Aquaclear's name for their media), those should just be rinsed in the removed tank water since they will go back on top and should keep the majority of the N-bacteria in them... but the sponge and filter pads will also have N-bacteria living in them. Open cell sponges should not have to be discarded for many, many years, until they are starting to fall apart. I have some that are well over five years old with no end date in sight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] On the subject of HOB sponges I have two AquaClear filters on my tank. Is there any way to unclog a sponge once it starts to clog up? I have one sponge that will go three days after a normal cleaning and then it lifts with the water pressure to the point where the biofilter is above water and the filter basket pops the lid up. By normal cleaning, I mean a good squeezing and rubbing in removed tank water or treated tap water. I've also tried running straight hot tap water through it from the top down to flush things out the way they came in. (with the two HOB's the good bacteria should renew fairly quickly). Is it time to ditch this sponge and get a new one? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45759	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Gastromyzon Scitilus

So... did you get it... or did them names fly right over your head? Or would suggested names of Uppergi and Lowergi be better hints? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gastromyzon Scitilus Wasn't planning on it ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > So... are you gonna name them Upper and Lower? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gastromyzon Scitilus > > Okay so I have one new picture so far of my only Gastromyzon Scitilus. > I have 2 Gastromyzon Zebrinus but they are a little camera shy, I have > not gotten a photo of them yet. > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg> > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45760	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Purigen

Lenny, I'm in the process of regenerating my purigen. The last step in the process directs me to use a "buffer" for FW and lists a few. Does it matter which I use so long as is a buffer? My pH is @ 7.6 Alex Semper Fi Please forgive any spelling errors. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45761	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Purigen

For Saltwater users, Purigen does not suggest this step so I took that to mean that IF you have really hard water (which Saltwater is very hard), like I do, you can probably also skip this step. For me personally, before I made this decision, I did an experiment on an empty tank filled with some of my tap water and then some of my tank's water, tested all parameters and then ran the Purigen on that empty tank for a few days and tested again to see what kind of effect it had on my hard water and it did not affect it. While your pH of 7.6 suggests you may have hard water, it's not guaranteed, so without knowing your GH level, I really can't give you any advice, other than to test the product for a few days on a non-fish tank to see how it affects your pH, like I did. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:35 AM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Purigen Lenny, I'm in the process of regenerating my purigen. The last step in the process directs me to use a "buffer" for FW and lists a few. Does it matter which I use so long as is a buffer? My pH is @ 7.6 Alex Semper Fi Please forgive any spelling errors. Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45762	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank

Dumas-etc. (name?), I've always seen these containers referred to just as "filter boxes." Your LFS could probably order one for you if you described what you were looking for. They could give you a choice of sizes and brands at this same time too, as well as prices. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45763	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911

Sorry, my fault, I meant Clown Loaches (Botia). When I contacted the store yesterday they just told me to put a heater in their bowl/tank. They're currently in the 2gal with a heater and air line, the temp is set to 80.5, they're moving well and eating and sometimes hiding behind the rock as they're supposed to. Should I perform any water changes during these remaining 24 hours as there's no filtration? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are these saltwater clown fish (as in "Finding Nemo"?) or some type of > freshwater fish? > > Since the store is going to take them back, call the store and ask them what > to do so that you follow their directions in case something goes wrong and > the fish do not make it, the store will be more prone to giving you a refund > or store credit. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 911 > > Hi, > I just brought three baby clown fish (1") instead of the giant 3-4" ones I > had. I examined the fish at the store but didn't notice the white spot > disease under the pale lights there, I put them in a heat bag to keep them > worm and brought them home. > > Now I'm 30 miles away and I just called the store, they told me to bring the > fish so they could treat them along with theirs and if they're completely > cured I can take them. Now the problem is that I can't take them back right > now, they'll have to wait 36 hours here. > > I prepared a 2 gal tank with a heater, and filled it with water from my 34 > gal. The temp is 77 , there's no filter whatsoever but I can put an > airstone. Any recommendations about the heat, PWC, anything I could do to > keep the fish in their best condition until they took the journey back to > the store? > > Tristan > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45764	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Container that hangs on tank

Hi Ray,   That's because back in our day, that's just what they were! For those not reaching back that far, Supreme and other PF's in those days had enormous filter media baskets.  When the PF's needing replacing these old filter boxes quickly saw new life as fish containers!  <g>   Bill --- On Fri, 1/15/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Container that hangs on tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 6:50 AM Dumas-etc. (name?),  I've always seen these containers referred to just as "filter boxes."  Your LFS could probably order one for you if you described what you were looking for.  They could give you a choice of sizes and brands at this same time too, as well as prices.  Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45765	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

Don't know which Bill your shooting at but if it's me?   Ya, got me-------right in the heart!   I often thought of the Fed-Ex discount you enjoy, I wouldn't buy anything LPS!   I was sorry to hear of your recent live shipment woes.   Bill --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 1:33 AM Hey bill, check out this auction... Hehehe. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwmixed&1263869598 Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45766	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

Hello Amber: Of course you know when you que up an email titled "just for Bill" everyone and their dog is going to click on the link. Thanks for sharing. Beautiful fish and the seller sounds like quite a character. Deb Lurking in Ocean Springs, MS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45767	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Gastromyzon Scitilus

I got it, upper and lower gastro intestines ;) Am I close? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > So... did you get it... or did them names fly right over your head? > > Or would suggested names of Uppergi and Lowergi be better hints? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gastromyzon Scitilus > > Wasn't planning on it ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > So... are you gonna name them Upper and Lower? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gastromyzon Scitilus > > > > Okay so I have one new picture so far of my only Gastromyzon Scitilus. > > I have 2 Gastromyzon Zebrinus but they are a little camera shy, I have > > not gotten a photo of them yet. > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg> > > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4275235821_6a08cfd7aa_b.jpg>> > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

Did you notice that those rams spawned on that oak leaf while he was taking pictures? LOL. I think my live shipment woes were my own fault and not the shippers, but I only lost 3 in the end, everything else is doing great, so I suppose that's not TOO bad. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Don't know which Bill your shooting at but if it's me? > > Ya, got me-------right in the heart! > > I often thought of the Fed-Ex discount you enjoy, I wouldn't buy > anything LPS! > > I was sorry to hear of your recent live shipment woes. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 1:33 AM > > Hey bill, check out this auction... Hehehe. > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwmixed&1263869598 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwmixed&1263869598> > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the > groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45769	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911

Do you have an air stone or something else providing water movement/agitation? You should or the water could get dangerously low O2 levels, especially at the warmer temperature. Even manual agitation every hour (at a minimum) helps. This means just dipping a cup into the water and pouring it back into the water. Since it's only a 2G tank, doing a quart sized PWC every few hours would also keep water quality up and provide additional aeration/agitation. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishy 911 Sorry, my fault, I meant Clown Loaches (Botia). When I contacted the store yesterday they just told me to put a heater in their bowl/tank. They're currently in the 2gal with a heater and air line, the temp is set to 80.5, they're moving well and eating and sometimes hiding behind the rock as they're supposed to. Should I perform any water changes during these remaining 24 hours as there's no filtration? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Are these saltwater clown fish (as in "Finding Nemo"?) or some type of > freshwater fish? > > Since the store is going to take them back, call the store and ask > them what to do so that you follow their directions in case something > goes wrong and the fish do not make it, the store will be more prone > to giving you a refund or store credit. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 911 > > Hi, > I just brought three baby clown fish (1") instead of the giant 3-4" > ones I had. I examined the fish at the store but didn't notice the > white spot disease under the pale lights there, I put them in a heat > bag to keep them worm and brought them home. > > Now I'm 30 miles away and I just called the store, they told me to > bring the fish so they could treat them along with theirs and if > they're completely cured I can take them. Now the problem is that I > can't take them back right now, they'll have to wait 36 hours here. > > I prepared a 2 gal tank with a heater, and filled it with water from > my 34 gal. The temp is 77 , there's no filter whatsoever but I can put > an airstone. Any recommendations about the heat, PWC, anything I could > do to keep the fish in their best condition until they took the > journey back to the store? > > Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45770	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

Well of course, everyone wants to make sure Bill isn't getting something really good that they might want too ;) LOL Amber Debra Melton wrote: > > Hello Amber: > > Of course you know when you que up an email titled "just for Bill" > everyone > and their dog is going to click on the link. Thanks for sharing. Beautiful > fish and the seller sounds like quite a character. > > Deb > Lurking in Ocean Springs, MS > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45771	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911

Yes, definitely do water changes if you don't add an airstone or something. Most loaches prefer higher oxygen content and can quickly suffocate if there is not enough oxygen in the water for them. I would add an airstone/air pump just to be safe. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > Sorry, my fault, I meant Clown Loaches (Botia). > When I contacted the store yesterday they just told me to put a heater > in their bowl/tank. > They're currently in the 2gal with a heater and air line, the temp is > set to 80.5, they're moving well and eating and sometimes hiding > behind the rock as they're supposed to. > Should I perform any water changes during these remaining 24 hours as > there's no filtration? > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Are these saltwater clown fish (as in "Finding Nemo"?) or some type of > > freshwater fish? > > > > Since the store is going to take them back, call the store and ask > them what > > to do so that you follow their directions in case something goes > wrong and > > the fish do not make it, the store will be more prone to giving you > a refund > > or store credit. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 911 > > > > Hi, > > I just brought three baby clown fish (1") instead of the giant 3-4" > ones I > > had. I examined the fish at the store but didn't notice the white spot > > disease under the pale lights there, I put them in a heat bag to > keep them > > worm and brought them home. > > > > Now I'm 30 miles away and I just called the store, they told me to > bring the > > fish so they could treat them along with theirs and if they're > completely > > cured I can take them. Now the problem is that I can't take them > back right > > now, they'll have to wait 36 hours here. > > > > I prepared a 2 gal tank with a heater, and filled it with water from > my 34 > > gal. The temp is 77 , there's no filter whatsoever but I can put an > > airstone. Any recommendations about the heat, PWC, anything I could > do to > > keep the fish in their best condition until they took the journey > back to > > the store? > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45772	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.

I didn't know how cool of water guppies live in, but I knew they were okay with coolish water. Either way they acclimated just fine, no deaths there. My upstairs tank can run a couple of degrees warmer in the "heat" of our summers sometimes, but typically the temps are about the same (around 77-78), I can't seem to get them any cooler than that because of my house temps being around 75. So next time I get fish should I leave the box unopened sitting in my house until I get home so the box can slowly warm up, and I have plenty of time to acclimate? Or could that cause issues since the fish are still in bags of icky water? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Guppies are actually cool water fish also although they do well at > tropical > temps also... as are several other common fish that are sold as strictly > tropical fish... but they aren't... like Zebra Danios, Pearl Danios, > Buenos > Aires Tetras and some other barbs and tetras, most native fish, etc. > http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm > <http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm> > > Isn't your upstairs tank warmer than the downstairs tank? > > And remember that the temp of the water when you receive them might > not have > been consistent during the entire shipment. Heat packs will only > affect the > inside of the box's ambient temperature by a certain number of degrees. > They do not have thermostats where they will heat up more if the box is in > colder climates and then heat up less as the box gets into not so cold > climates. Presume they were in the mid-70's when shipped, then they could > have gotten down into the 60's during the shipping in the cargo hold of a > plane or back of a truck, then warmed up a little once on the ground in a > warehouse, then to your home, etc... so the fish already have been through > several temperature changes that have them stressed out so it's always > best > to acclimate them as best (and possibly as slowly) as possible once > you get > them... especially if you're not quarantining them since all of those > temperature changes, especially lowering temps could easily cause an Ich > outbreak. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped > to me > in the future. > > The bags were just filled with air, I'm not sure what the temp of the > water > was, but easily around 65 ish, from the feel of it. > The temps have been in the 40's here, not sure about NY where it was > shipped > from. > There actually were heat packs in the box, I found them in the very bottom > under a bunch of newspaper insulation type material and a couple pieces of > cardboard so I'm curious as to why the water was so cool to the touch. > Next time I get them I will wait until I'm off of work and hopefully > he can > ship them on a monday, so that I get them tuesday (my shortest day of the > week). I will also take the temp of the water when they arrive as well, so > that I know how fast they can be acclimated to my temps. > The fish were mostly cooler water fish (60-75ish range), except the 4 > guppy's, and they were still somewhat active in the bag, so it must > not have > been TOO cold. > > The seller never responded to my emails, letting him know of the deaths. > I specifically stated that I did not expect a refund or new fish, I just > wanted to inform him of the situation. Perhaps he is busy with his fish > orders still. > I still have 3 of the gastromyzon's left today, all doing well and > exploring > the tank. I'm glad some of them lived. ALL the fish I put downstairs > in the > 125 gallon made it just fine. I really enjoy the botia kubotai's, and will > be getting a few more for the group, 4 just doesn't seem quite enough > to me. > The new 4 sewellia lineolata's in the 125 gallon seem to have brought out > the babies, I've counted at least 3 babies since adding the adults > yesterday > and prior to adding them I could never find the babies. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I'm not sure I'd ever buy fish that have to be shipped in the middle > > of winter unless I knew for certain that the seller was going to do > > every thing possible to maintain temperature inside the shipping box.. > > which means styrofoam shipping box, heat packs (or cool packs in the > > dead of summer), etc. And that's for me down here in N'Awlins.. up > > there, your winters are so much worse than mine... although we did hit > > below freezing for three straight nights last week... BRRRRRR!!!!! So > > much for global warming. > > > > Temperature change is certainly one of the things that will cause a > > fish to go into shock and die abruptly. You should have taken the temp > > of the water when the fish arrived and if it was too cold, you should > > have notified the seller immediately for any tropical fish. Any cool > > water species may be able to tolerate the cooler water better. In > > either case, you shouldn't change their water temp by more than 1F per > > hour and 2F per day under normal circumstances. If they arrived and > > the water temp in the bags was in the 60's, this would mean a LONG > > time frame of slowly bringing the water temp back up so you would > > probably have to push the limits in that situation. > > Even then, I would not go more than 1F per hour, so you might have a > > LONG day/night ahead of you. A heat pack to keep the water at least in > > the 70's would have been a good addition. > > > > Did the bags have pure or mixed O2 in them or was it just plain air? > > If pure or mixed O2, that would give you a much longer time frame for > > how long the fish can stay in the bags compared to plain air filling > > the bag. > > > > Yes, trying to rush the acclimation during your lunch break was not a > > good idea. It would have been better to wait until you were off work > > and could do the proper testing and monitoring and slow, possibly drip > > acclimation, especially if there were big differences between > > temperature, pH and other water parameters. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to > > me in the future. > > > > Okay so still not quite sure why most of the new fish died in my 55 > > gallon but nothing I put in the 125 gallon died. Either way I have a > > couple thoughts I wanted to clear up before I have any more fish > sent in. > > My only thoughts are perhaps the temperature change was too much, > > there was NO heat pack in the box that I could see, which I found a > > little odd, even though the fish are "cooler water" fish, I'd think 50 > > degree weather or cooler is just a bit TOO cool for fish that live in > > 60-75 degree water typically. All I know is that the bags felt very > > cool to the touch when I took them out of the stryo foam box. Should I > > have let them come up to room temps with the bags still tied up with > > air in them? > > Would it be better to leave the box of fish unopened until after work > > and then start the acclimation process with the tank lights out? > > Obviously a lunch break is not quite enough time to fully acclimate > > and watch the fish to see how they are acting for awhile. I knew it > > was rushed but I didn't want to leave the fish in the bags for too > > long either, I wasn't sure which was worse to do. The only way I can > > acclimate them sooner is to have them arrive on a tuesday (our > > shortest day of the week), I could then start acclimating them about 4 > > hours after they arrive, otherwise the rest of the week they would sit > > in the box until at least 5-6 pm. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45773	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911

clown loaches get huge, hope they trade them back in for you when they get bigger. Have you thought about other botia's that only get 5 inches? I just got some really cute botia kubotai's this week, very fun to watch. They only get 5-6 inches from what I've read. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > Sorry, my fault, I meant Clown Loaches (Botia). > When I contacted the store yesterday they just told me to put a heater > in their bowl/tank. > They're currently in the 2gal with a heater and air line, the temp is > set to 80.5, they're moving well and eating and sometimes hiding > behind the rock as they're supposed to. > Should I perform any water changes during these remaining 24 hours as > there's no filtration? > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Are these saltwater clown fish (as in "Finding Nemo"?) or some type of > > freshwater fish? > > > > Since the store is going to take them back, call the store and ask > them what > > to do so that you follow their directions in case something goes > wrong and > > the fish do not make it, the store will be more prone to giving you > a refund > > or store credit. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 911 > > > > Hi, > > I just brought three baby clown fish (1") instead of the giant 3-4" > ones I > > had. I examined the fish at the store but didn't notice the white spot > > disease under the pale lights there, I put them in a heat bag to > keep them > > worm and brought them home. > > > > Now I'm 30 miles away and I just called the store, they told me to > bring the > > fish so they could treat them along with theirs and if they're > completely > > cured I can take them. Now the problem is that I can't take them > back right > > now, they'll have to wait 36 hours here. > > > > I prepared a 2 gal tank with a heater, and filled it with water from > my 34 > > gal. The temp is 77 , there's no filter whatsoever but I can put an > > airstone. Any recommendations about the heat, PWC, anything I could > do to > > keep the fish in their best condition until they took the journey > back to > > the store? > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.

Since you're so interested in cool/cold water fish, you need to keep your home cooler. I keep mine at 72F. You'll just have to dress warmer around the house. As far as the fish being in the bags a few more hours, that shouldn't be as much of an issue. After all, they already spent 24 hours or more in shipping so a couple more hours won't matter as much as not being able to do a proper acclimation process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future. I didn't know how cool of water guppies live in, but I knew they were okay with coolish water. Either way they acclimated just fine, no deaths there. My upstairs tank can run a couple of degrees warmer in the "heat" of our summers sometimes, but typically the temps are about the same (around 77-78), I can't seem to get them any cooler than that because of my house temps being around 75. So next time I get fish should I leave the box unopened sitting in my house until I get home so the box can slowly warm up, and I have plenty of time to acclimate? Or could that cause issues since the fish are still in bags of icky water? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Guppies are actually cool water fish also although they do well at > tropical temps also... as are several other common fish that are sold > as strictly tropical fish... but they aren't... like Zebra Danios, > Pearl Danios, Buenos Aires Tetras and some other barbs and tetras, > most native fish, etc. > http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm > <http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/fishqa/f/coldwaterfish.htm> > > Isn't your upstairs tank warmer than the downstairs tank? > > And remember that the temp of the water when you receive them might > not have been consistent during the entire shipment. Heat packs will > only affect the inside of the box's ambient temperature by a certain > number of degrees. > They do not have thermostats where they will heat up more if the box > is in colder climates and then heat up less as the box gets into not > so cold climates. Presume they were in the mid-70's when shipped, then > they could have gotten down into the 60's during the shipping in the > cargo hold of a plane or back of a truck, then warmed up a little once > on the ground in a warehouse, then to your home, etc... so the fish > already have been through several temperature changes that have them > stressed out so it's always best to acclimate them as best (and > possibly as slowly) as possible once you get them... especially if > you're not quarantining them since all of those temperature changes, > especially lowering temps could easily cause an Ich outbreak. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped > to me in the future. > > The bags were just filled with air, I'm not sure what the temp of the > water was, but easily around 65 ish, from the feel of it. > The temps have been in the 40's here, not sure about NY where it was > shipped from. > There actually were heat packs in the box, I found them in the very > bottom under a bunch of newspaper insulation type material and a > couple pieces of cardboard so I'm curious as to why the water was so cool to the touch. > Next time I get them I will wait until I'm off of work and hopefully > he can ship them on a monday, so that I get them tuesday (my shortest > day of the week). I will also take the temp of the water when they > arrive as well, so that I know how fast they can be acclimated to my > temps. > The fish were mostly cooler water fish (60-75ish range), except the 4 > guppy's, and they were still somewhat active in the bag, so it must > not have been TOO cold. > > The seller never responded to my emails, letting him know of the deaths. > I specifically stated that I did not expect a refund or new fish, I > just wanted to inform him of the situation. Perhaps he is busy with > his fish orders still. > I still have 3 of the gastromyzon's left today, all doing well and > exploring the tank. I'm glad some of them lived. ALL the fish I put > downstairs in the > 125 gallon made it just fine. I really enjoy the botia kubotai's, and > will be getting a few more for the group, 4 just doesn't seem quite > enough to me. > The new 4 sewellia lineolata's in the 125 gallon seem to have brought > out the babies, I've counted at least 3 babies since adding the adults > yesterday and prior to adding them I could never find the babies. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I'm not sure I'd ever buy fish that have to be shipped in the middle > > of winter unless I knew for certain that the seller was going to do > > every thing possible to maintain temperature inside the shipping box.. > > which means styrofoam shipping box, heat packs (or cool packs in the > > dead of summer), etc. And that's for me down here in N'Awlins.. up > > there, your winters are so much worse than mine... although we did > > hit below freezing for three straight nights last week... > > BRRRRRR!!!!! So much for global warming. > > > > Temperature change is certainly one of the things that will cause a > > fish to go into shock and die abruptly. You should have taken the > > temp of the water when the fish arrived and if it was too cold, you > > should have notified the seller immediately for any tropical fish. > > Any cool water species may be able to tolerate the cooler water > > better. In either case, you shouldn't change their water temp by > > more than 1F per hour and 2F per day under normal circumstances. If > > they arrived and the water temp in the bags was in the 60's, this > > would mean a LONG time frame of slowly bringing the water temp back > > up so you would probably have to push the limits in that situation. > > Even then, I would not go more than 1F per hour, so you might have a > > LONG day/night ahead of you. A heat pack to keep the water at least > > in the 70's would have been a good addition. > > > > Did the bags have pure or mixed O2 in them or was it just plain air? > > If pure or mixed O2, that would give you a much longer time frame > > for how long the fish can stay in the bags compared to plain air > > filling the bag. > > > > Yes, trying to rush the acclimation during your lunch break was not > > a good idea. It would have been better to wait until you were off > > work and could do the proper testing and monitoring and slow, > > possibly drip acclimation, especially if there were big differences > > between temperature, pH and other water parameters. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped > > to me in the future. > > > > Okay so still not quite sure why most of the new fish died in my 55 > > gallon but nothing I put in the 125 gallon died. Either way I have a > > couple thoughts I wanted to clear up before I have any more fish > sent in. > > My only thoughts are perhaps the temperature change was too much, > > there was NO heat pack in the box that I could see, which I found a > > little odd, even though the fish are "cooler water" fish, I'd think > > 50 degree weather or cooler is just a bit TOO cool for fish that > > live in > > 60-75 degree water typically. All I know is that the bags felt very > > cool to the touch when I took them out of the stryo foam box. Should > > I have let them come up to room temps with the bags still tied up > > with air in them? > > Would it be better to leave the box of fish unopened until after > > work and then start the acclimation process with the tank lights out? > > Obviously a lunch break is not quite enough time to fully acclimate > > and watch the fish to see how they are acting for awhile. I knew it > > was rushed but I didn't want to leave the fish in the bags for too > > long either, I wasn't sure which was worse to do. The only way I can > > acclimate them sooner is to have them arrive on a tuesday (our > > shortest day of the week), I could then start acclimating them about > > 4 hours after they arrive, otherwise the rest of the week they would > > sit in the box until at least 5-6 pm. > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45775	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911

Yes, Clown Loaches grow to well over 12" and up to 16" and should be kept in groups of five or more although three is possible if there are no other stress factors in a tank. For a proper group of five or more, one should have a 6' long, 100G+ sized tank for long term success. Anything less will result in stunting of the fish and the higher likelihood of health issues and a premature death. They are supposed to live to over 20 years with reports of as long as 50 years. They are slow growers but I wouldn't keep them in a 34G for more than a year or two and then only if the tank was well maintained with frequent PWC's to remove/dilute the stunting hormone levels. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Fishy 911 clown loaches get huge, hope they trade them back in for you when they get bigger. Have you thought about other botia's that only get 5 inches? I just got some really cute botia kubotai's this week, very fun to watch. They only get 5-6 inches from what I've read. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > Sorry, my fault, I meant Clown Loaches (Botia). > When I contacted the store yesterday they just told me to put a heater > in their bowl/tank. > They're currently in the 2gal with a heater and air line, the temp is > set to 80.5, they're moving well and eating and sometimes hiding > behind the rock as they're supposed to. > Should I perform any water changes during these remaining 24 hours as > there's no filtration? > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Are these saltwater clown fish (as in "Finding Nemo"?) or some type > > of freshwater fish? > > > > Since the store is going to take them back, call the store and ask > them what > > to do so that you follow their directions in case something goes > wrong and > > the fish do not make it, the store will be more prone to giving you > a refund > > or store credit. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:32 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 911 > > > > Hi, > > I just brought three baby clown fish (1") instead of the giant 3-4" > ones I > > had. I examined the fish at the store but didn't notice the white > > spot disease under the pale lights there, I put them in a heat bag > > to > keep them > > worm and brought them home. > > > > Now I'm 30 miles away and I just called the store, they told me to > bring the > > fish so they could treat them along with theirs and if they're > completely > > cured I can take them. Now the problem is that I can't take them > back right > > now, they'll have to wait 36 hours here. > > > > I prepared a 2 gal tank with a heater, and filled it with water from > my 34 > > gal. The temp is 77 , there's no filter whatsoever but I can put an > > airstone. Any recommendations about the heat, PWC, anything I could > do to > > keep the fish in their best condition until they took the journey > back to > > the store? > > > > Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45776	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Help with ram eggs

I got my sponge filter and ten g, am setting up with mother tank water now, a few floating plants, light, heat to 80 and slowly rising, got the liquid foods and baby brine... NOW: as for moving the rock with the eggs on it. I can see the fry in the eggs but they are not wiggling yet. I'm thinking I may as well move the rock today. Is there some reason to wait and move the rock later? I will be on guard for a problem with the parents, and if worst comes to it, I will put the rock back to save the parents/ female. Hopefully that won't be necessary. Thanks for advice. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45777	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Charity auctions etc. RE: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill

Yes there are some entertaining sellers on aquabid. They love to make fun of themselves and each other. They have some choice photos of each other occasionally displayed in their ads. Many of them also have big hearts and will do fundraising auctions for other sellers who are in bad situation. They donate the items and shipping, and other sellers will add items on to their auctions to boost sales, progressive autions alos. Where if the dollar amounts hit certain amounts additional items are added to the action. At the end of one of these auctions the winner usually makes out very well. At the moment there are a few sellers doing Haiti auctions, I have not read the details of the auctions. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:24 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill   Wow... that one jumped from 1.00 to 40.00 QUICK!!! This seller is a kick with his 3rd person stories (a common sales technique). I'm surprised he isn't throwing in a couple of choice closes in his monologues... oops... I meant ads. I bet he was a used car salesman in a previous life. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill Hey bill, check out this auction... Hehehe. http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwmixed&1263869598 Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45778	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges

I've been cleaning the sponge and biomedia the way you described and I do the filters on different days to make sure the biofilters recharge each other if I do decide to use hot tap water on a sponge. The sponge doesn't lift the other filter media out of the basket. It lifts the entire basket to the point where it eventually pops the lid off the filter box. Of course by the time it does that the biofilter will be sitting above water (and slowly dying) and so I have to check often through the side of the filter box and make sure the sponge isn't starting to bow up in the center from water pressure. This all started about a month or so ago when the group was discussing cyanobacteria. I followed the links posted and looked at the pictures and several of them looked like patches of dark "algae" that were growing on the bottom of my tank. With the tank being 30 inches deep, I had been wondering if it was getting enough oxygen at the bottom, so I added a bubble wand and within 3 days the dark patches were gone and the filters were both popping their tops, something I've never had happen before. I cleaned the sponges thoroughly and everything seemed to return to normal until the last couple of weeks, when they started trying to float again and there really doesn't seem to be an unusual amount of detritus in them when I clean them. That's why I'm wondering if it's just time to replace them. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:24 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] On the subject of HOB sponges The sponges should not be getting clogged up that quickly. Maybe you aren't cleaning them enough time or your tank is too heavily stocked or the filter is getting too much plant detritus or something. You should be doing weekly tank and filter maintenance in most cases, which would mean vacuuming the gravel good, then removing a gallon or so of tank water for filter cleaning and taking the sponge and other filter media out of the filter and rinsing, squeezing, sloshing the media around in the removed water until it's pretty clean. When you take the filter media basket/holder out, and open it up, it has little pinchers on each side which should hold the sponge and other media in place so it should not float up. After cleaning the sponge, put it down into the bottom of the holder, with the holder folded open and then when you fold up the two sides, the pinchers should go into the sponge and hold it at the bottom. Same with other filter media. If you want to clean the sponge really good, like under hot tap water and squeezing over and over until it's running clear, then make sure you do NOT do any cleaning of the other filter media during that particular time so you do not kill off too many N-bacteria at one time. I just cleaned one of my AC's sponges like this today and rinsed it over and over and squeezed it under tap water over and over until the water was running through it crystal clear. Just don't do this to all your media at once, especially not in a heavily stocked tank and/or un-planted tank. You have a little more margin of error for nitrogen cycle issues in a lightly stocked tank and planted tanks. If you use the bio-stones, (I'm drawing a blank on Aquaclear's name for their media), those should just be rinsed in the removed tank water since they will go back on top and should keep the majority of the N-bacteria in them... but the sponge and filter pads will also have N-bacteria living in them. Open cell sponges should not have to be discarded for many, many years, until they are starting to fall apart. I have some that are well over five years old with no end date in sight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] On the subject of HOB sponges I have two AquaClear filters on my tank. Is there any way to unclog a sponge once it starts to clog up? I have one sponge that will go three days after a normal cleaning and then it lifts with the water pressure to the point where the biofilter is above water and the filter basket pops the lid up. By normal cleaning, I mean a good squeezing and rubbing in removed tank water or treated tap water. I've also tried running straight hot tap water through it from the top down to flush things out the way they came in. (with the two HOB's the good bacteria should renew fairly quickly). Is it time to ditch this sponge and get a new one? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45779	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs

Lainey, I hope you understand that you need to replace this spawning rock immediately with another very similar one if you want to keep any possible aggression between the pair to an absolute minimum. Otherwise, be prepared to move one of the pair. From your description, as it seems like the eggs are developing nicely, it's too bad that you have other fish in this tank. It might appear that the pair could well raise these fry withouit eating them, but most any fry do not stand a good chance of survival in a community tank. You may experience some aggression by them towards you when you remove their rock, so be prepared for that. You would be taking a chance of them eating the spawn if you were to remove and then replace the rock feeling that may defuse any aggression between the pair. It is possible (not definite, though) that if you were to return the rock immediately, that they would continue to care for the eggs but quite often once they're disturbed like that, it's enough to cause them to eat the eggs. I did recommend for you to remove (and replace with another) the rock just before lights out, and since they haven't eaten the eggs yet, it should be fairly safe to wait another few hours. Since you can see the fry within the eggs, there's no need for a funguscide. Again. keep us posted. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45780	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges

Hi Deb, Have you tried adding a sponge on the filter intake? It too will clog and slow down the filter flow but it is easy to see this happening. You will have to clean it probably as often as you are you cleaning the sponges in the aqua clear but at least this way it will not lift up the filters in the back of filters. I used to do this on canister intakes. It allowed me to go longer between filter maintenance. Easier for me to rinse out a sponge on the intake than to take apart the canister. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:06 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] On the subject of HOB sponges   I've been cleaning the sponge and biomedia the way you described and I do the filters on different days to make sure the biofilters recharge each other if I do decide to use hot tap water on a sponge. The sponge doesn't lift the other filter media out of the basket. It lifts the entire basket to the point where it eventually pops the lid off the filter box. Of course by the time it does that the biofilter will be sitting above water (and slowly dying) and so I have to check often through the side of the filter box and make sure the sponge isn't starting to bow up in the center from water pressure. This all started about a month or so ago when the group was discussing cyanobacteria. I followed the links posted and looked at the pictures and several of them looked like patches of dark "algae" that were growing on the bottom of my tank. With the tank being 30 inches deep, I had been wondering if it was getting enough oxygen at the bottom, so I added a bubble wand and within 3 days the dark patches were gone and the filters were both popping their tops, something I've never had happen before. I cleaned the sponges thoroughly and everything seemed to return to normal until the last couple of weeks, when they started trying to float again and there really doesn't seem to be an unusual amount of detritus in them when I clean them. That's why I'm wondering if it's just time to replace them. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:24 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] On the subject of HOB sponges The sponges should not be getting clogged up that quickly. Maybe you aren't cleaning them enough time or your tank is too heavily stocked or the filter is getting too much plant detritus or something. You should be doing weekly tank and filter maintenance in most cases, which would mean vacuuming the gravel good, then removing a gallon or so of tank water for filter cleaning and taking the sponge and other filter media out of the filter and rinsing, squeezing, sloshing the media around in the removed water until it's pretty clean. When you take the filter media basket/holder out, and open it up, it has little pinchers on each side which should hold the sponge and other media in place so it should not float up. After cleaning the sponge, put it down into the bottom of the holder, with the holder folded open and then when you fold up the two sides, the pinchers should go into the sponge and hold it at the bottom. Same with other filter media. If you want to clean the sponge really good, like under hot tap water and squeezing over and over until it's running clear, then make sure you do NOT do any cleaning of the other filter media during that particular time so you do not kill off too many N-bacteria at one time. I just cleaned one of my AC's sponges like this today and rinsed it over and over and squeezed it under tap water over and over until the water was running through it crystal clear. Just don't do this to all your media at once, especially not in a heavily stocked tank and/or un-planted tank. You have a little more margin of error for nitrogen cycle issues in a lightly stocked tank and planted tanks. If you use the bio-stones, (I'm drawing a blank on Aquaclear's name for their media), those should just be rinsed in the removed tank water since they will go back on top and should keep the majority of the N-bacteria in them... but the sponge and filter pads will also have N-bacteria living in them. Open cell sponges should not have to be discarded for many, many years, until they are starting to fall apart. I have some that are well over five years old with no end date in sight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] On the subject of HOB sponges I have two AquaClear filters on my tank. Is there any way to unclog a sponge once it starts to clog up? I have one sponge that will go three days after a normal cleaning and then it lifts with the water pressure to the point where the biofilter is above water and the filter basket pops the lid up. By normal cleaning, I mean a good squeezing and rubbing in removed tank water or treated tap water. I've also tried running straight hot tap water through it from the top down to flush things out the way they came in. (with the two HOB's the good bacteria should renew fairly quickly). Is it time to ditch this sponge and get a new one? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges

Hmmmmm... I've never seen that happen before. When I put the sponge at the bottom and then some floss pad on top of the sponge where it folds down over the sponge on each side a little and then close the sides of the media holder, when I slide that down into the reservoir, it fits pretty tight. Then I put my other bio-media and/or Purigen packet on top, just resting on top of the sponge and floss pad media. Possibly, if your sponge is getting clogged up so quickly, then the water pressure from the bottom is pushing the entire thing up and that means you might have to do more frequent scheduled cleaning of the sponge media OR you could get another block of sponge with a slightly larger pore size and put it on the bottom, then the smaller pore size on top of that and then a piece of floss pad and then not use the bio-media. The larger pore sponge would catch some of the bigger detritus/poop which would keep it from clogging up the smaller pore sponge so easily. This might get you to where you can get to once a week maintenance. Ahhhh.. something else that I saw as I read down further into your email. I was typing the above as I read each paragraph. Since this started happening after you added the air stone(s), are you allowing air bubbles to get into the intake of your filter system? These bubbles could be then building up in the sponge and causing air pockets which would be more of a cause of the media floating up than just the water not wanting to flow through the media. Move the air stones far enough away from the filter intake so bubbles do not get into the filter intake and then see if you continue to have the floating filter media issue... then if you do, it's probably just the sponge getting clogged up and you'll have to decide on one of the remedies I mentioned above. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] On the subject of HOB sponges I've been cleaning the sponge and biomedia the way you described and I do the filters on different days to make sure the biofilters recharge each other if I do decide to use hot tap water on a sponge. The sponge doesn't lift the other filter media out of the basket. It lifts the entire basket to the point where it eventually pops the lid off the filter box. Of course by the time it does that the biofilter will be sitting above water (and slowly dying) and so I have to check often through the side of the filter box and make sure the sponge isn't starting to bow up in the center from water pressure. This all started about a month or so ago when the group was discussing cyanobacteria. I followed the links posted and looked at the pictures and several of them looked like patches of dark "algae" that were growing on the bottom of my tank. With the tank being 30 inches deep, I had been wondering if it was getting enough oxygen at the bottom, so I added a bubble wand and within 3 days the dark patches were gone and the filters were both popping their tops, something I've never had happen before. I cleaned the sponges thoroughly and everything seemed to return to normal until the last couple of weeks, when they started trying to float again and there really doesn't seem to be an unusual amount of detritus in them when I clean them. That's why I'm wondering if it's just time to replace them. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:24 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] On the subject of HOB sponges The sponges should not be getting clogged up that quickly. Maybe you aren't cleaning them enough time or your tank is too heavily stocked or the filter is getting too much plant detritus or something. You should be doing weekly tank and filter maintenance in most cases, which would mean vacuuming the gravel good, then removing a gallon or so of tank water for filter cleaning and taking the sponge and other filter media out of the filter and rinsing, squeezing, sloshing the media around in the removed water until it's pretty clean. When you take the filter media basket/holder out, and open it up, it has little pinchers on each side which should hold the sponge and other media in place so it should not float up. After cleaning the sponge, put it down into the bottom of the holder, with the holder folded open and then when you fold up the two sides, the pinchers should go into the sponge and hold it at the bottom. Same with other filter media. If you want to clean the sponge really good, like under hot tap water and squeezing over and over until it's running clear, then make sure you do NOT do any cleaning of the other filter media during that particular time so you do not kill off too many N-bacteria at one time. I just cleaned one of my AC's sponges like this today and rinsed it over and over and squeezed it under tap water over and over until the water was running through it crystal clear. Just don't do this to all your media at once, especially not in a heavily stocked tank and/or un-planted tank. You have a little more margin of error for nitrogen cycle issues in a lightly stocked tank and planted tanks. If you use the bio-stones, (I'm drawing a blank on Aquaclear's name for their media), those should just be rinsed in the removed tank water since they will go back on top and should keep the majority of the N-bacteria in them... but the sponge and filter pads will also have N-bacteria living in them. Open cell sponges should not have to be discarded for many, many years, until they are starting to fall apart. I have some that are well over five years old with no end date in sight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] On the subject of HOB sponges I have two AquaClear filters on my tank. Is there any way to unclog a sponge once it starts to clog up? I have one sponge that will go three days after a normal cleaning and then it lifts with the water pressure to the point where the biofilter is above water and the filter basket pops the lid up. By normal cleaning, I mean a good squeezing and rubbing in removed tank water or treated tap water. I've also tried running straight hot tap water through it from the top down to flush things out the way they came in. (with the two HOB's the good bacteria should renew fairly quickly). Is it time to ditch this sponge and get a new one? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45782	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs

I went looking for a rock to replace yesterday, but I couldn't find a similar type. I have other non-similar rocks. I can do one of two things: abort mission or be prepared to separate the pair. I will wait for your vote Ray. I want to do what is best all the way around. I don't really want to set up a whole Ram breeding tank, thus the messy middleground. Still, I'm trying to do what is best. If you tell me to abort I will:) Otherwise, I have a 25 g community tank with same water parameters for one of the pair if that's needed. I can try replacing the not similar rock too. I got this rock at a very far away store, that's why I can't seem to replace it. Very ram-friendly! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 15, 2010, at 4:20 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, I hope you understand that you need to replace this > spawning rock > immediately with another very similar one if you want to keep any > possible > aggression between the pair to an absolute minimum. Otherwise, be > prepared > to move one of the pair. From your description, as it seems like > the eggs > are developing nicely, it's too bad that you have other fish in > this tank. It > might appear that the pair could well raise these fry withouit > eating them, > but most any fry do not stand a good chance of survival in a community > tank. > > You may experience some aggression by them towards you when you remove > their rock, so be prepared for that. You would be taking a chance > of them > eating the spawn if you were to remove and then replace the rock > feeling that may > defuse any aggression between the pair. It is possible (not definite, > though) that if you were to return the rock immediately, that they > would > continue to care for the eggs but quite often once they're > disturbed like that, > it's enough to cause them to eat the eggs. I did recommend for you > to remove > (and replace with another) the rock just before lights out, and > since they > haven't eaten the eggs yet, it should be fairly safe to wait > another few > hours. Since you can see the fry within the eggs, there's no need > for a > funguscide. Again. keep us posted. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.

Well funny thing is I don't keep the heat on upstairs at all unless its freezing outside. I have to keep the heat on for my parrots downstairs though. I lowered the temp on the thermostat in the tank and opened a window to cool the upstairs a bit more. I also have the condo right above the boiler system so I have the warmest condo without even turning my heat on lol. Amber On Jan 15, 2010 11:02 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Since you're so interested in cool/cold water fish, you need to keep your home cooler. I keep mine at 72F. You'll just have to dress warmer around the house. As far as the fish being in the bags a few more hours, that shouldn't be as much of an issue. After all, they already spent 24 hours or more in shipping so a couple more hours won't matter as much as not being able to do a proper acclimation process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under ... From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] T... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45784	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs

Very ram-friendly!  Obviously so, Lainey!  I think what Ray is trying to put you in mind of is that once you touch that rock at all, it's almost a given that you're going to invite trouble between the pair.  This goes even if you try putting in back. As for "middle ground"?  There is none.  You're either going to have the fry or not.  I'm sorry, there is no middle ground.  If you act incorrectly you may solve the problem once and for all because only one of the parents will be left alive and then you're spawning problems will be over permanently.  If you follow what Ray is telling you, you will be fine.  If not, it's anyone's guess as to what will happen next.  Rams, or any other Cichlid for that matter, are not guppies or other livebearers.  In many case's they do mate for life and so with that bound also comes the matter of raising their fry.  If disturbed, it's for sure, there will be no fry, and if really disturbed, there may be no parents either.  Use care and caution on whatever you decide but remember, you're decision may be irreversible once completed. Good Luck and keep us posted, Bill --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help with ram eggs To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 4:29 PM I went looking for a rock to replace yesterday, but I couldn't find a  similar type. I have other non-similar rocks. I can do one of two  things: abort mission or be prepared to separate the pair. I will wait for your vote Ray. I want to do what is best all the way  around. I don't really want to set up a whole Ram breeding tank, thus the  messy middleground. Still, I'm trying to do what is best. If you tell me to abort I  will:) Otherwise, I have a 25 g community tank with same water  parameters for one of the pair if that's needed. I can try replacing  the not similar rock too. I got this rock at a very far away store, that's why I can't seem to  replace it. Very ram-friendly! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 15, 2010, at 4:20 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, I hope you understand that you need to replace this  > spawning rock > immediately with another very similar one if you want to keep any  > possible > aggression between the pair to an absolute minimum. Otherwise, be  > prepared > to move one of the pair. From your description, as it seems like  > the eggs > are developing nicely, it's too bad that you have other fish in  > this tank. It > might appear that the pair could well raise these fry withouit  > eating them, > but most any fry do not stand a good chance of survival in a community > tank. > > You may experience some aggression by them towards you when you remove > their rock, so be prepared for that. You would be taking a chance  > of them > eating the spawn if you were to remove and then replace the rock  > feeling that may > defuse any aggression between the pair. It is possible (not definite, > though) that if you were to return the rock immediately, that they  > would > continue to care for the eggs but quite often once they're  > disturbed like that, > it's enough to cause them to eat the eggs. I did recommend for you  > to remove > (and replace with another) the rock just before lights out, and  > since they > haven't eaten the eggs yet, it should be fairly safe to wait  > another few > hours. Since you can see the fry within the eggs, there's no need  > for a > funguscide. Again. keep us posted. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45785	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.

Well, knowing that hot air rises, you should consider moving the parrots upstairs and the fish downstairs since that would be more of a *natural* way of keeping them and take advantage of your environment, rather than trying to fight it. Then you could still lower your thermostat downstairs and yet the upstairs should always be several degrees warmer... because the hot air from downstairs will constantly rise to the upper floor and any cool air from upstairs will always flow downstairs. This issue has always been a problem in townhouse type apartments with only one central air handler system. Even in two story homes with two separate systems, the upstairs will almost always be warmer unless they put a door at the bottom or top of the stairs to create a barrier between the two floors. You just can't beat physics... unless you have LOTS of money. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future. Well funny thing is I don't keep the heat on upstairs at all unless its freezing outside. I have to keep the heat on for my parrots downstairs though. I lowered the temp on the thermostat in the tank and opened a window to cool the upstairs a bit more. I also have the condo right above the boiler system so I have the warmest condo without even turning my heat on lol. Amber On Jan 15, 2010 11:02 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Since you're so interested in cool/cold water fish, you need to keep your home cooler. I keep mine at 72F. You'll just have to dress warmer around the house. As far as the fish being in the bags a few more hours, that shouldn't be as much of an issue. After all, they already spent 24 hours or more in shipping so a couple more hours won't matter as much as not being able to do a proper acclimation process. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under ... From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AquaticLife] T... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45786	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs

Thanks, Bill, you guys have made it very clear what the issues are. I see the pair eating some of the eggs now so I think I'll go ahead with the experiment and be prepared to move the female... Stand by for more drama... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 15, 2010, at 5:22 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Very ram-friendly! Obviously so, Lainey! I think what Ray is > trying to > put you in mind of is that once you touch that rock at all, it's > almost a given that you're going to invite trouble between the > pair. This goes even if you try putting in back. > > As for "middle ground"? There is none. You're either going to > have the fry or not. I'm sorry, there is no middle ground. If you > act incorrectly you may solve the problem once and for all because > only one of the parents will be left alive and then you're spawning > problems will be over permanently. > > If you follow what Ray is telling you, you will be fine. If not, > it's anyone's guess as to what will happen next. Rams, or any > other Cichlid for that matter, are not guppies or other > livebearers. In many case's they do mate for life and so with that > bound also comes the matter of raising their fry. If disturbed, > it's for sure, there will be no fry, and if really disturbed, there > may be no parents either. > Use care and caution on whatever you decide but remember, you're > decision may be irreversible once completed. > > Good Luck and keep us posted, > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help with ram eggs > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 4:29 PM > > I went looking for a rock to replace yesterday, but I couldn't find a > similar type. I have other non-similar rocks. I can do one of two > things: abort mission or be prepared to separate the pair. > > I will wait for your vote Ray. I want to do what is best all the way > around. > > I don't really want to set up a whole Ram breeding tank, thus the > messy middleground. > > Still, I'm trying to do what is best. If you tell me to abort I > will:) Otherwise, I have a 25 g community tank with same water > parameters for one of the pair if that's needed. I can try replacing > the not similar rock too. > > I got this rock at a very far away store, that's why I can't seem to > replace it. Very ram-friendly! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 15, 2010, at 4:20 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, I hope you understand that you need to replace this > > spawning rock > > immediately with another very similar one if you want to keep any > > possible > > aggression between the pair to an absolute minimum. Otherwise, be > > prepared > > to move one of the pair. From your description, as it seems like > > the eggs > > are developing nicely, it's too bad that you have other fish in > > this tank. It > > might appear that the pair could well raise these fry withouit > > eating them, > > but most any fry do not stand a good chance of survival in a > community > > tank. > > > > You may experience some aggression by them towards you when you > remove > > their rock, so be prepared for that. You would be taking a chance > > of them > > eating the spawn if you were to remove and then replace the rock > > feeling that may > > defuse any aggression between the pair. It is possible (not > definite, > > though) that if you were to return the rock immediately, that they > > would > > continue to care for the eggs but quite often once they're > > disturbed like that, > > it's enough to cause them to eat the eggs. I did recommend for you > > to remove > > (and replace with another) the rock just before lights out, and > > since they > > haven't eaten the eggs yet, it should be fairly safe to wait > > another few > > hours. Since you can see the fry within the eggs, there's no need > > for a > > funguscide. Again. keep us posted. Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45787	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs

Go ahead with your plan of moving the rock to the 10 gallon. Right at this time, I'd like to point out that raising the temperature in the 10 gallon without the eggs being in there would not have the gradual effect of having the eggs being subjected to this slow rise in temperature. Now, you will be subjecting the eggs to a sudden 2 o rise in temperature from 78 o in your community tank to 80 o in the 10 gallon. The object was to slowly raise the temperature of the water while the eggs are already in there -- I just wanted you to be aware of this, although fortunately, eggs are strong enough to withstand this abrupt change as it's still small yet (only 2 o difference). It's dark enough outside now to make this move -- turn the lights out right after this. BTW, I always recommend having a small night light on until you turn the lights back on in the morning. I don't know if you do this, but it's a good idea to keep in mind. At least, I hope you keep your tanks covered. If the other rock(s) you have on hand was also bought from a fish store, at least it should be safe to use without it affecting your water parameters. Use the closest sized rock to that rock you are going to remove. It's preferable if it has the same finish (worn smooth, as an example) but a slight color difference won't matter. You just don't want a stark bare bottom or empty depression in the gravel where the spawning rock was. Since you have that 25 gallon community, there's your back up for a contingency plan if things get rough. Try to keep an eye on them after lights out if you can, although I don't expect very much of a behavior change then. You will need to keep a closer eye on them first thing in the morning though, just in case one or the other acts up. The numbers and the proximity of the other inhabitants will have a decided effect on the pair if they seem agitated -- they will tend to blame the other fish (for the missing eggs) rather than each other. If you are all set up with the 10 gallon tank, and the sponge filter is in place, you can move the rock into it at any time now. Just be careful where you grab it as there may be eggs where you don't see them at first. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45788	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges

I've considered that, but decided I'd probably have to clean it a lot more often than I clean the sponges in the HOB. Cleaning the AquaClear really isn't that difficult, or hasn't been until just recently. Now I'm thinking on it, I'm probably giving the minnows way more flake food than they need. I figured the goldies would finish off anything left behind, but apparently they don't. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> Hi Deb, Have you tried adding a sponge on the filter intake? It too will clog and slow down the filter flow but it is easy to see this happening. You will have to clean it probably as often as you are you cleaning the sponges in the aqua clear but at least this way it will not lift up the filters in the back of filters. I used to do this on canister intakes. It allowed me to go longer between filter maintenance. Easier for me to rinse out a sponge on the intake than to take apart the canister. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> I've been cleaning the sponge and biomedia the way you described and I do the filters on different days to make sure the biofilters recharge each other if I do decide to use hot tap water on a sponge. The sponge doesn't lift the other filter media out of the basket. It lifts the entire basket to the point where it eventually pops the lid off the filter box. Of course by the time it does that the biofilter will be sitting above water (and slowly dying) and so I have to check often through the side of the filter box and make sure the sponge isn't starting to bow up in the center from water pressure. This all started about a month or so ago when the group was discussing cyanobacteria. I followed the links posted and looked at the pictures and several of them looked like patches of dark "algae" that were growing on the bottom of my tank. With the tank being 30 inches deep, I had been wondering if it was getting enough oxygen at the bottom, so I added a bubble wand and within 3 days the dark patches were gone and the filters were both popping their tops, something I've never had happen before. I cleaned the sponges thoroughly and everything seemed to return to normal until the last couple of weeks, when they started trying to float again and there really doesn't seem to be an unusual amount of detritus in them when I clean them. That's why I'm wondering if it's just time to replace them. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> The sponges should not be getting clogged up that quickly. Maybe you aren't cleaning them enough time or your tank is too heavily stocked or the filter is getting too much plant detritus or something. You should be doing weekly tank and filter maintenance in most cases, which would mean vacuuming the gravel good, then removing a gallon or so of tank water for filter cleaning and taking the sponge and other filter media out of the filter and rinsing, squeezing, sloshing the media around in the removed water until it's pretty clean. When you take the filter media basket/holder out, and open it up, it has little pinchers on each side which should hold the sponge and other media in place so it should not float up. After cleaning the sponge, put it down into the bottom of the holder, with the holder folded open and then when you fold up the two sides, the pinchers should go into the sponge and hold it at the bottom. Same with other filter media. If you want to clean the sponge really good, like under hot tap water and squeezing over and over until it's running clear, then make sure you do NOT do any cleaning of the other filter media during that particular time so you do not kill off too many N-bacteria at one time. I just cleaned one of my AC's sponges like this today and rinsed it over and over and squeezed it under tap water over and over until the water was running through it crystal clear. Just don't do this to all your media at once, especially not in a heavily stocked tank and/or un-planted tank. You have a little more margin of error for nitrogen cycle issues in a lightly stocked tank and planted tanks. If you use the bio-stones, (I'm drawing a blank on Aquaclear's name for their media), those should just be rinsed in the removed tank water since they will go back on top and should keep the majority of the N-bacteria in them... but the sponge and filter pads will also have N-bacteria living in them. Open cell sponges should not have to be discarded for many, many years, until they are starting to fall apart. I have some that are well over five years old with no end date in sight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager I have two AquaClear filters on my tank. Is there any way to unclog a sponge once it starts to clog up? I have one sponge that will go three days after a normal cleaning and then it lifts with the water pressure to the point where the biofilter is above water and the filter basket pops the lid up. By normal cleaning, I mean a good squeezing and rubbing in removed tank water or treated tap water. I've also tried running straight hot tap water through it from the top down to flush things out the way they came in. (with the two HOB's the good bacteria should renew fairly quickly). Is it time to ditch this sponge and get a new one? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45789	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: On the subject of HOB sponges

The air stone! D'oh! I'll move the air stone. Can't guarantee the goldfish won't put it right back, but I'll try and anchor it further away from the filter. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Hmmmmm... I've never seen that happen before. When I put the sponge at the bottom and then some floss pad on top of the sponge where it folds down over the sponge on each side a little and then close the sides of the media holder, when I slide that down into the reservoir, it fits pretty tight. Then I put my other bio-media and/or Purigen packet on top, just resting on top of the sponge and floss pad media. Possibly, if your sponge is getting clogged up so quickly, then the water pressure from the bottom is pushing the entire thing up and that means you might have to do more frequent scheduled cleaning of the sponge media OR you could get another block of sponge with a slightly larger pore size and put it on the bottom, then the smaller pore size on top of that and then a piece of floss pad and then not use the bio-media. The larger pore sponge would catch some of the bigger detritus/poop which would keep it from clogging up the smaller pore sponge so easily. This might get you to where you can get to once a week maintenance. Ahhhh.. something else that I saw as I read down further into your email. I was typing the above as I read each paragraph. Since this started happening after you added the air stone(s), are you allowing air bubbles to get into the intake of your filter system? These bubbles could be then building up in the sponge and causing air pockets which would be more of a cause of the media floating up than just the water not wanting to flow through the media. Move the air stones far enough away from the filter intake so bubbles do not get into the filter intake and then see if you continue to have the floating filter media issue... then if you do, it's probably just the sponge getting clogged up and you'll have to decide on one of the remedies I mentioned above. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager I've been cleaning the sponge and biomedia the way you described and I do the filters on different days to make sure the biofilters recharge each other if I do decide to use hot tap water on a sponge. The sponge doesn't lift the other filter media out of the basket. It lifts the entire basket to the point where it eventually pops the lid off the filter box. Of course by the time it does that the biofilter will be sitting above water (and slowly dying) and so I have to check often through the side of the filter box and make sure the sponge isn't starting to bow up in the center from water pressure. This all started about a month or so ago when the group was discussing cyanobacteria. I followed the links posted and looked at the pictures and several of them looked like patches of dark "algae" that were growing on the bottom of my tank. With the tank being 30 inches deep, I had been wondering if it was getting enough oxygen at the bottom, so I added a bubble wand and within 3 days the dark patches were gone and the filters were both popping their tops, something I've never had happen before. I cleaned the sponges thoroughly and everything seemed to return to normal until the last couple of weeks, when they started trying to float again and there really doesn't seem to be an unusual amount of detritus in them when I clean them. That's why I'm wondering if it's just time to replace them. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> The sponges should not be getting clogged up that quickly. Maybe you aren't cleaning them enough time or your tank is too heavily stocked or the filter is getting too much plant detritus or something. You should be doing weekly tank and filter maintenance in most cases, which would mean vacuuming the gravel good, then removing a gallon or so of tank water for filter cleaning and taking the sponge and other filter media out of the filter and rinsing, squeezing, sloshing the media around in the removed water until it's pretty clean. When you take the filter media basket/holder out, and open it up, it has little pinchers on each side which should hold the sponge and other media in place so it should not float up. After cleaning the sponge, put it down into the bottom of the holder, with the holder folded open and then when you fold up the two sides, the pinchers should go into the sponge and hold it at the bottom. Same with other filter media. If you want to clean the sponge really good, like under hot tap water and squeezing over and over until it's running clear, then make sure you do NOT do any cleaning of the other filter media during that particular time so you do not kill off too many N-bacteria at one time. I just cleaned one of my AC's sponges like this today and rinsed it over and over and squeezed it under tap water over and over until the water was running through it crystal clear. Just don't do this to all your media at once, especially not in a heavily stocked tank and/or un-planted tank. You have a little more margin of error for nitrogen cycle issues in a lightly stocked tank and planted tanks. If you use the bio-stones, (I'm drawing a blank on Aquaclear's name for their media), those should just be rinsed in the removed tank water since they will go back on top and should keep the majority of the N-bacteria in them... but the sponge and filter pads will also have N-bacteria living in them. Open cell sponges should not have to be discarded for many, many years, until they are starting to fall apart. I have some that are well over five years old with no end date in sight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager I have two AquaClear filters on my tank. Is there any way to unclog a sponge once it starts to clog up? I have one sponge that will go three days after a normal cleaning and then it lifts with the water pressure to the point where the biofilter is above water and the filter basket pops the lid up. By normal cleaning, I mean a good squeezing and rubbing in removed tank water or treated tap water. I've also tried running straight hot tap water through it from the top down to flush things out the way they came in. (with the two HOB's the good bacteria should renew fairly quickly). Is it time to ditch this sponge and get a new one? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45790	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs

OK, I moved the rock, and the rams seem fine. I fed them just after moving it, and they are stuffed with bloodworms which I honestly think is helping. I will turn out the lights as soon as they finish eating. They ate about half the eggs but there are still quite a few left. I matched the temps between the two tanks and now will begin raising in the fry tank... I am listening very carefully to what you are saying! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 15, 2010, at 5:56 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Go ahead with your plan of moving the rock to the 10 gallon. Right > at this > time, I'd like to point out that raising the temperature in the 10 > gallon > without the eggs being in there would not have the gradual effect > of having > the eggs being subjected to this slow rise in temperature. Now, you > will be > subjecting the eggs to a sudden 2 o rise in temperature from 78 o > in your > community tank to 80 o in the 10 gallon. The object was to slowly > raise the > temperature of the water while the eggs are already in there -- I > just wanted > you to be aware of this, although fortunately, eggs are strong > enough to > withstand this abrupt change as it's still small yet (only 2 o > difference). > > It's dark enough outside now to make this move -- turn the lights > out right > after this. BTW, I always recommend having a small night light on > until > you turn the lights back on in the morning. I don't know if you do > this, but > it's a good idea to keep in mind. At least, I hope you keep your tanks > covered. > > If the other rock(s) you have on hand was also bought from a fish > store, at > least it should be safe to use without it affecting your water > parameters. > Use the closest sized rock to that rock you are going to remove. It's > preferable if it has the same finish (worn smooth, as an example) > but a slight > color difference won't matter. You just don't want a stark bare > bottom or > empty depression in the gravel where the spawning rock was. Since > you have > that 25 gallon community, there's your back up for a contingency > plan if > things get rough. Try to keep an eye on them after lights out if > you can, > although I don't expect very much of a behavior change then. You > will need to > keep a closer eye on them first thing in the morning though, just > in case one > or the other acts up. The numbers and the proximity of the other > inhabitants > will have a decided effect on the pair if they seem agitated -- > they will > tend to blame the other fish (for the missing eggs) rather than > each other. > > If you are all set up with the 10 gallon tank, and the sponge > filter is in > place, you can move the rock into it at any time now. Just be > careful where > you grab it as there may be eggs where you don't see them at first. > Ray > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45791	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911

YES, the LFS would love to take them when they grow too big for me, in fact I mentioned in my first post that those three baby loaches came to replace the ones who got too big. Your Botia kubotai is not really available here, naaa.. that was just an excuse, true, but still is an excuse, I think I'm going to spell the truth... I FELL IN LOVE WITH CLOWN LOACHES! Blushing Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > clown loaches get huge, hope they trade them back in for you when they > get bigger. > Have you thought about other botia's that only get 5 inches? I just got > some really cute botia kubotai's this week, very fun to watch. They only > get 5-6 inches from what I've read. > > Amber > > greyclouds99 wrote: > > > > Sorry, my fault, I meant Clown Loaches (Botia). > > When I contacted the store yesterday they just told me to put a heater > > in their bowl/tank. > > They're currently in the 2gal with a heater and air line, the temp is > > set to 80.5, they're moving well and eating and sometimes hiding > > behind the rock as they're supposed to. > > Should I perform any water changes during these remaining 24 hours as > > there's no filtration? > > Tristan > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped to me in the future.

My main reason for putting these fish upstairs is that I wanted to watch them, LOL. I don't get a chance to sit and watch the 125 gallon a lot, I mostly watch the fish in my 55 gallon upstairs (and my betta/frog tank). So I wanted something neat to look at, LOL. Good news is the shipper DID respond (his emails went to my spam folder which is odd since his FIRST emails didn't, LOL), so I've been conversing with him about the issue. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, knowing that hot air rises, you should consider moving the parrots > upstairs and the fish downstairs since that would be more of a > *natural* way > of keeping them and take advantage of your environment, rather than trying > to fight it. Then you could still lower your thermostat downstairs and yet > the upstairs should always be several degrees warmer... because the > hot air > from downstairs will constantly rise to the upper floor and any cool air > from upstairs will always flow downstairs. > > This issue has always been a problem in townhouse type apartments with > only > one central air handler system. Even in two story homes with two separate > systems, the upstairs will almost always be warmer unless they put a > door at > the bottom or top of the stairs to create a barrier between the two > floors. > > You just can't beat physics... unless you have LOTS of money. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 4:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Thoughts prior to getting more fish shipped > to me in the future. > > Well funny thing is I don't keep the heat on upstairs at all unless its > freezing outside. I have to keep the heat on for my parrots downstairs > though. > I lowered the temp on the thermostat in the tank and opened a window > to cool > the upstairs a bit more. > > I also have the condo right above the boiler system so I have the warmest > condo without even turning my heat on lol. > > Amber > > On Jan 15, 2010 11:02 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > Since you're so interested in cool/cold water fish, you need to keep your > home cooler. I keep mine at 72F. You'll just have to dress warmer > around the > house. > > As far as the fish being in the bags a few more hours, that shouldn't > be as > much of an issue. After all, they already spent 24 hours or more in > shipping > so a couple more hours won't matter as much as not being able to do a > proper > acclimation process. > > Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under ... > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:01 AM To: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.comSubject > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.comSubject>: Re: [AquaticLife] T... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45793	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911

Botia kubotai's are not available HERE either, LOL. I had mine shipped in. But I also really like the smaller spotty loaches, like yoyo loaches. I couldn't get a clown loach since my LFS will not trade fish in, they will take them for free but no trades *grumble*. Amber greyclouds99 wrote: > > YES, the LFS would love to take them when they grow too big for me, in > fact I mentioned in my first post that those three baby loaches came > to replace the ones who got too big. > > Your Botia kubotai is not really available here, naaa.. that was just > an excuse, true, but still is an excuse, I think I'm going to spell > the truth... I FELL IN LOVE WITH CLOWN LOACHES! > > Blushing Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > clown loaches get huge, hope they trade them back in for you when they > > get bigger. > > Have you thought about other botia's that only get 5 inches? I just got > > some really cute botia kubotai's this week, very fun to watch. They > only > > get 5-6 inches from what I've read. > > > > Amber > > > > greyclouds99 wrote: > > > > > > Sorry, my fault, I meant Clown Loaches (Botia). > > > When I contacted the store yesterday they just told me to put a > heater > > > in their bowl/tank. > > > They're currently in the 2gal with a heater and air line, the temp is > > > set to 80.5, they're moving well and eating and sometimes hiding > > > behind the rock as they're supposed to. > > > Should I perform any water changes during these remaining 24 hours as > > > there's no filtration? > > > Tristan > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45794	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45795	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs

Since they were starting to eat the eggs, it looks like you made the right move by transferring them to the 10. Glad to here the parents are taking this well. If you put another stone it this one's place, this would have defused any tensions the pair may otherwise have had. The benefit here, with the time-element of over-night is that they now have a long time to slowly get used to the idea that the eggs are no longer present. This will become slowly obvious to them as the morning light gradually increases, which eases them off their breeding cycle. Your main concern now is the eggs and future fry. You'll need to be prepared to feed the fry after about 3 1/2 to 4 days after they hatch. Do not feed them anything until they ALL become free-swimming, which may take several hours once they start. Let us know if you need any help in hatching brine shrimp. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

LOL... Yep... they do suck. I always subscribe to the email updates so that as the packages are tracked at each transfer point, they send me an email and I usually get the email showing my package has arrived at the main New Orleans post office.... about a day after the package has already been delivered at my home! Look at the bright side... when we have guv'ment health care, they'll order an emergency dose of nitroglycerin pills for a heart condition... and it will show up after we're dead... but at least our heirs will still get the emailed delivery confirmation. Ooops... I guess that's not really a bright side. :-O Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45797	From: William M	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911

Any good pet shop would be crazy to not replace a larger clown loach with a smaller one. If you look at the prices of the different sixes of clown loach, (and the division is sometimes as small as 1/4 inch between sizes) it jumps rather fast.So they take your 6 inch loaches and give you 2 inch loaches. They sell the small loaches at say $5 each and the 6 inch ones at $30 to $50 each. Yes If your clown loaches gets too large I will gladly trade you for smaller ones. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greyclouds99" <greyclouds99@...> wrote: > > YES, the LFS would love to take them when they grow too big for me, in fact I mentioned in my first post that those three baby loaches came to replace the ones who got too big. > > > Your Botia kubotai is not really available here, naaa.. that was just an excuse, true, but still is an excuse, I think I'm going to spell the truth... I FELL IN LOVE WITH CLOWN LOACHES! > > Blushing Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > clown loaches get huge, hope they trade them back in for you when they > > get bigger. > > Have you thought about other botia's that only get 5 inches? I just got > > some really cute botia kubotai's this week, very fun to watch. They only > > get 5-6 inches from what I've read. > > > > Amber > > > > greyclouds99 wrote: > > > > > > Sorry, my fault, I meant Clown Loaches (Botia). > > > When I contacted the store yesterday they just told me to put a heater > > > in their bowl/tank. > > > They're currently in the 2gal with a heater and air line, the temp is > > > set to 80.5, they're moving well and eating and sometimes hiding > > > behind the rock as they're supposed to. > > > Should I perform any water changes during these remaining 24 hours as > > > there's no filtration? > > > Tristan > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45798	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Help with ram eggs

well, I need an air pump for hatching the brine since I didn't realize I would need to use my existing air pump for the sponge filter! but I have raised livebearers on BBS so I think I know how to do that... the parents are not even visiting the old site of the eggs and rock, they seem like they're over it already - more worried about swallowing CO2 bubbles from my CO2 diffuser, but I will be vigilant Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 15, 2010, at 7:09 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Since they were starting to eat the eggs, it looks like you made > the right > move by transferring them to the 10. Glad to here the parents are > taking > this well. If you put another stone it this one's place, this would > have > defused any tensions the pair may otherwise have had. The benefit > here, with > the time-element of over-night is that they now have a long time to > slowly get > used to the idea that the eggs are no longer present. This will become > slowly obvious to them as the morning light gradually increases, > which eases > them off their breeding cycle. > > Your main concern now is the eggs and future fry. You'll need to be > prepared to feed the fry after about 3 1/2 to 4 days after they > hatch. Do not > feed them anything until they ALL become free-swimming, which may > take several > hours once they start. Let us know if you need any help in hatching > brine > shrimp. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45799	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Amber, They are very frustrating. A friend of mine that ships fish as part of his business cannot use USPS anymore because they claim the airline they use does not allow liquids on their planes. So this has been frustrating for him as it limits his shipping options which limits his ability to sell fish. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)   Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45800	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Except that the post office is actually run by a public corporation. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) LOL... Yep... they do suck. I always subscribe to the email updates so that as the packages are tracked at each transfer point, they send me an email and I usually get the email showing my package has arrived at the main New Orleans post office.... about a day after the package has already been delivered at my home! Look at the bright side... when we have guv'ment health care, they'll order an emergency dose of nitroglycerin pills for a heart condition... and it will show up after we're dead... but at least our heirs will still get the emailed delivery confirmation. Ooops... I guess that's not really a bright side. :-O Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45801	From: pam andress	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

I have been told by my post office that they only have to scan the package as they get it in for delivering. It does not have to be scanned at any other time. Stinks! Pam LOL... Yep... they do suck. I always subscribe to the email updates so that as the packages are tracked at each transfer point, they send me an email and I usually get the email showing my package has arrived at the main New Orleans post office.... about a day after the package has already been delivered at my home! Look at the bright side... when we have guv'ment health care, they'll order an emergency dose of nitroglycerin pills for a heart condition... and it will show up after we're dead... but at least our heirs will still get the emailed delivery confirmation. Ooops... I guess that's not really a bright side. :-O Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45802	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Paradise fish/Steve

Thanks Steve! No worries i am just planning on one male, only fish in tank. I think they are beautiful but also have the advantage of tolerating lower temperatures. Happy Fishes, Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45803	From: harry perry	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the internet and other freight companies. Harry --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 6:49 PM   Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45804	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Service has gone done because they are losing money. The internet has taken away a bulk of the USPS’ business away from them. With email and online bill payment, nobody sends mail out anymore. I have a pack of stamps that I bought 2 years ago luckily I got the non-priced ones that work regardless of the postal rate :-D I have only used a few of the stamps. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45805	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

Amber, Well, you DID send him a link for some fish PORN! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill Well of course, everyone wants to make sure Bill isn't getting something really good that they might want too ;) LOL Amber Debra Melton wrote: > > Hello Amber: > > Of course you know when you que up an email titled "just for Bill" > everyone > and their dog is going to click on the link. Thanks for sharing. Beautiful > fish and the seller sounds like quite a character. > > Deb > Lurking in Ocean Springs, MS > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45806	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

Well I wasn't advertising but now ya did it, everyone is going to click that link now, if they haven't already, LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Well, you DID send him a link for some fish PORN! > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill > > Well of course, everyone wants to make sure Bill isn't getting something > really good that they might want too ;) LOL > > Amber > > Debra Melton wrote: > > > > Hello Amber: > > > > Of course you know when you que up an email titled "just for Bill" > > everyone > > and their dog is going to click on the link. Thanks for sharing. > Beautiful > > fish and the seller sounds like quite a character. > > > > Deb > > Lurking in Ocean Springs, MS > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45807	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...> For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the internet and other freight companies. Harry --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45808	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

Very true Deb. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@ <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the internet and other freight companies. Harry --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45809	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

LOL... that's so STUPID. Your friend needs to buck his way up the ladder at the USPS until he gets to a guv'ment worker that knows the real rules. It could take several layers. ;-) Just another typical guv'ment SNAFU! People have liters of booze they pack in their luggage... that they buy at the airport's duty free store... all the time. It's just people getting on the planes like the underwear bomber and shoe bomber... or those of us trying to bring our own liters of booze onto the plane for them long plane trips.. lol... that they're trying to stop.... and can't even do that. ;-) I might have to go back to my old rule/joke... "Whenever I fly, I always bring a bomb with me... what's the chances of two people having a bomb on the same plane?" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Amber, They are very frustrating. A friend of mine that ships fish as part of his business cannot use USPS anymore because they claim the airline they use does not allow liquids on their planes. So this has been frustrating for him as it limits his shipping options which limits his ability to sell fish. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)   Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45810	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Lenny I totally agree. Last I heard he had been going up the ladder trying to get results. I may seem him tomorrow and ask him if he has heard differently. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2010 10:45 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)   LOL... that's so STUPID. Your friend needs to buck his way up the ladder at the USPS until he gets to a guv'ment worker that knows the real rules. It could take several layers. ;-) Just another typical guv'ment SNAFU! People have liters of booze they pack in their luggage... that they buy at the airport's duty free store... all the time. It's just people getting on the planes like the underwear bomber and shoe bomber... or those of us trying to bring our own liters of booze onto the plane for them long plane trips.. lol... that they're trying to stop.... and can't even do that. ;-) I might have to go back to my old rule/joke... "Whenever I fly, I always bring a bomb with me... what's the chances of two people having a bomb on the same plane?" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Amber, They are very frustrating. A friend of mine that ships fish as part of his business cannot use USPS anymore because they claim the airline they use does not allow liquids on their planes. So this has been frustrating for him as it limits his shipping options which limits his ability to sell fish. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)   Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45811	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Yeah, right.... just like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, except them two are actually publicly traded whereas the USPS is NOT a public company in any way, shape or form. The USPS gets their annual guv'ment budget established and allocated from the Annual Budget Bill from Congress in Washington, D.C., including the covering of all their losses by U.S. TAXPAYERS... just like FNMA and FRMC and all of the NEW guv'ment companies like GM, Chrysler, several banks, etc., etc., etc. A REAL public corporation's losses are NOT (supposed to be) covered by the tax payers... unless they bribe their local Senator or House member... ooops.. I meant give them a nice mortgage rate or campaign contribution. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Except that the post office is actually run by a public corporation. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) LOL... Yep... they do suck. I always subscribe to the email updates so that as the packages are tracked at each transfer point, they send me an email and I usually get the email showing my package has arrived at the main New Orleans post office.... about a day after the package has already been delivered at my home! Look at the bright side... when we have guv'ment health care, they'll order an emergency dose of nitroglycerin pills for a heart condition... and it will show up after we're dead... but at least our heirs will still get the emailed delivery confirmation. Ooops... I guess that's not really a bright side. :-O Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45812	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Well, based on the email tracking that I always use, they do scan the packages at the various transfer points... I think! The problem is that the scan is not automatically uploaded into the USPS computers and the email tracking service takes its time about sending out that email. FEDEX and UPS hand held scanners are instantly uploaded to their computers. I've received those kinds of packages and then checked the website for delivery information and it's usually already there, even though I might have just signed for it. There may be a short delay but not much. Of course, they cost more too... in most cases. You know the old saying... "You get what you pay for!". Or the bumper sticker I like, "If you think health care is expensive now, just wait until it's FREE!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 7:01 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) I have been told by my post office that they only have to scan the package as they get it in for delivering. It does not have to be scanned at any other time. Stinks! Pam LOL... Yep... they do suck. I always subscribe to the email updates so that as the packages are tracked at each transfer point, they send me an email and I usually get the email showing my package has arrived at the main New Orleans post office.... about a day after the package has already been delivered at my home! Look at the bright side... when we have guv'ment health care, they'll order an emergency dose of nitroglycerin pills for a heart condition... and it will show up after we're dead... but at least our heirs will still get the emailed delivery confirmation. Ooops... I guess that's not really a bright side. :-O Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45813	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

LOL... even I didn't look at it that way. Did he have some Barry White background music playing? Or some over-dubbed moans and groans... not that I've ever seen any porn. ;-) LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill Amber, Well, you DID send him a link for some fish PORN! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill Well of course, everyone wants to make sure Bill isn't getting something really good that they might want too ;) LOL Amber Debra Melton wrote: > > Hello Amber: > > Of course you know when you que up an email titled "just for Bill" > everyone > and their dog is going to click on the link. Thanks for sharing. > Beautiful fish and the seller sounds like quite a character. > > Deb > Lurking in Ocean Springs, MS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45814	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

Very false. See my reply from a few minutes ago. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber Very true Deb. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@ <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the internet and other freight companies. Harry --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

Ummmm.. I'm not sure where you got that info from. They are housed in Federal government owned buildings and do not pay property taxes (that's a taxpayer subsidy), except for their limited number of locations that might be in retail shopping centers, their employees are covered by Federal government subsidized insurance programs, their vehicles are owned by the Federal government and have Federal government license plates on them and are exempt from State insurance laws and if they get in an accident, you have to go through a Federal government claims procedure where the Dept. Of Justice represents and defends the USPS and if you have to sue them, you have to do it in Federal Court... and I could go on and on. They are WHOLLY OWNED by the taxpayers who establishes their annual budget and finances their quarterly losses (off-budget as you'll see below). They've lost money for 11 out of the last 12 quarters. Up until recent years, they were covered by their own Federal Government Retirement program, just like Congress, and DID NOT pay Social Security, although that has changed recently with the oncoming failure of Social Security so the Feds did this to try and bolster Social Security with additional payers. Snips from a USA Today article last year... http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-03-25-postal-woes_N.htm "With the Postal Service facing budget shortfalls the subcommittee will consider a number of options to restore financial stability and examine ways for the Postal Service to continue to operate without cutting services," subcommittee chairman Stephen F. Lynch, D-Mass., said.... ...Blair also noted that Congress could consider appropriating money to help the post office. Currently the agency does not receive a taxpayer subsidy for its operations, although Congress does subsidize overseas voting and free mail for the blind. (LV adds: UMMMMM... that is taxpayer subsidized, as is the franking privileges for politicians who send mail at no charge and as stated above, the USPS gets low or no-cost rent, free lawyers, etc., all paid for by the taxpayers.) William Young, president of the National Association of Letter Carriers, stressed in his testimony that the agency is not seeking a taxpayer bailout, "but we are here to ask the Congress for help."... Lawmakers also raised questions regarding recent news reports which said Potter is paid as much as $800,000 a year. That is not correct, Potter said. He said his salary, set by Congress, is $263,575. He said the news reports were also counting his retirement fund, the cost of his security detail and a $135,000 bonus which would be paid over 10 years after he retires. The bonus is based on improved delivery rates and customer satisfaction, he said. Under the current financial conditions, Potter said, he would not be eligible for a bonus this year. Carolyn Gallagher, chairwoman of the postal governing board, said postal executives are paid only a fraction of what executives in similarly sized businesses receive. (END SNIPS) Two snips from a USPS Press Release from last year... http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2009/pr09_047.htm An independent federal agency, the U.S. Postal Service is the only delivery service that reaches every address in the nation... (snipped from the disclaimer at the bottom of the Press Release) WASHINGTON - The U.S. Postal Service ended its second quarter (Jan 1 - March 31) with a net loss of $1.9 billion, as the economic recession and longer-term financial pressures, such as the diversion of letter mail to electronic alternatives, continued to reduce mail volume and revenue. Despite aggressive actions to reduce costs and grow revenue, the Postal Service will likely face a cash shortfall of over $1.5 billion at the end of the fiscal year... ...The Postal Service continues to support H.R. 22, a House bill that would redirect a portion of the Postal Service's prior payments to the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Trust Fund to pay its share of contributions for current retiree health benefits through 2016. If enacted, the legislation would reduce the projected 2009 net loss by approximately $2 billion and help enable the Postal Service to meet its 2009 financial obligations. The bill was introduced by Rep. John McHugh (R-NY) and co-sponsored by Rep. Danny Davis (D-IL). As of today, the bill has 297 co-sponsors... (END SNIPS) From The Heritage Foundation (archives from 1989) http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg716.cfm The bipartisan budget agreement between Congress and the Bush Administration includes a proposal to remove the United States Postal Service (USPS) from the unified federal budget. By transferring the USPSs expected fiscal 1990 loss of $1.8 billion to the nether world of off-budget accounting, the government would create the illusion of reducing the deficit without having to cut spending or boost revenue. This is accounting gimmickry that simply tries to achieve deficit reduction targets by pretending that parts of the deficit do not really exist. It violates the principle of the governments unified budget: to be a thorough accounting of federal activities and outlays. Removal from the budget of any program for purposes of transitory convenience only misleads the public and undermines important principles of full disclosure. Failing the Test. There are, of course, legitimate reasons to consider conferring-off-budget status on certain government-related enterprises. Chief among them, according to the 1987 Presidents Commission on Budget Concepts, is that the enterprise be completely privately owned. The Federal National Mortgage Association is an example of an off-budget privately owned, government-sponsored enterprise. Obviously, the USPS fails this test. (END SNIP) They are a wholly owned Federal Government Agency built, paid for and continually subsidized by the taxpayers. And, as far as your thoughts about FEDEX and UPS maybe charging higher prices if the USPS wasn't around... that may or may not be true but since they base their prices slightly above (in most cases) what the Post Office charges, as they know folks will pay those higher prices, we'll never know. Unless there was a true free-market test to see if they would raise or lower their prices. Frankly, I'd rather the marketplace establish pricing for everything instead of a guv'ment agency having any say-so in the matter... like what has happened in the past (since Medicaid and Medicare) and will further happen with the EXTREME GROWTH in guv'ment healthcare. All that said, I'm not advocating the abolishment of the USPS but they DO NEED to change their business model to bring themselves into the modern ages if they want to compete with REAL private but publicly traded companies like UPS and FEDEX... or they should be allowed to go bankrupt and reorganize themselves... first by re-negotiating their ridiculously high union costs, contracts and benefits... but that won't happen before November 2010 or 2012 depending on those election cycles. Fish! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...> For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the internet and other freight companies. Harry --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45816	From: Angela Robinson	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life

Hi Lainey, Thanks for the suggestion, but I’m confused. I did a yahoo search and it brought me to sex posts .Eww! Perhaps you had the name of the group incorrect?....(I hope!) menuleaf_3Angela R. www.fairwoodbulldogs.com From: Lainey Alexander [mailto:lainealex@...] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:19 PM To: mymooser Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to Marine Life Hi Angela - I just wanted to write you privately and tell you that aquaticlife is primarily a freshwater group, so I think you need a different group to help you. Have you tried reef central forum? I think they might be able to help you more... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 14, 2010, at 5:12 PM, mymooser wrote: Hi Everyone, My name is Angela. I'm new to the group, and new to marine life. I currently have two goldfish and two beta's. For Christmas I got a 16 gallon Biorb from my new mother-in-law. She also got me the Marine conversion kit. I've heard concern about these tanks, but I'm not able to return this gift as our relationship is a new sensitive one, if you know what I mean... I would like to keep one maybe two clown fish in it, along with a few cleaning shrimp or crab. Before I get the tank ready to set up and start cycling, I wanted to join this group to learn more about saltwater fish and educate myself as best I can to make my situation work out. I know that many enthusiasts here will be critical about me keeping this new tank, but if anyone can offer their help and suggestions, I would appreciate it. My goal is to make this tank work out as best and safe as possible. I would love your thoughts and educational support! -Angela [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45817	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Of course you realize that this group is probably now being monitored for national security. You managed to pop several trigger words in there. Hmmm . . . trigger is probably one of those words, too. There goes hubby's security clearance. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) LOL... that's so STUPID. Your friend needs to buck his way up the ladder at the USPS until he gets to a guv'ment worker that knows the real rules. It could take several layers. ;-) Just another typical guv'ment SNAFU! People have liters of booze they pack in their luggage... that they buy at the airport's duty free store... all the time. It's just people getting on the planes like the underwear bomber and shoe bomber... or those of us trying to bring our own liters of booze onto the plane for them long plane trips.. lol... that they're trying to stop.... and can't even do that. ;-) I might have to go back to my old rule/joke... "Whenever I fly, I always bring a bomb with me... what's the chances of two people having a bomb on the same plane?" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Amber, They are very frustrating. A friend of mine that ships fish as part of his business cannot use USPS anymore because they claim the airline they use does not allow liquids on their planes. So this has been frustrating for him as it limits his shipping options which limits his ability to sell fish. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45818	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Well, I'm sure the Feds started monitoring this group when I joined. I haven't been known to be a sheeple since I first started voting. I've had political blogs on GeoCities, long before blogs was even a word. That's why I wear my tin-foil hat... to keep them from monitoring my thoughts before I publish them all over the internet... and prior to that... in newspaper reader replies to Op-Ed's. I guess you missed one of my previous rants where I talked about my old *joke* back in the late 70's and through current times, that I would pray every night that the Soviet Union would just NUKE the D.C. beltway to get rid of Congress, the President and all the lobbyists in one fell swoop and then we could just start over with a fresh slate of future crooks. At least none of them would have so much power compared to the so-called leaders today. Of course, I would probably have to pray that China does it nowadays since we spent down the Soviet Union during the Cold War. I don't think that the incompetent underwear or shoe bombers are ever going to be able to pull off a big feat like that.... so China, it's up to you to save us... again!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Of course you realize that this group is probably now being monitored for national security. You managed to pop several trigger words in there. Hmmm . . . trigger is probably one of those words, too. There goes hubby's security clearance. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) LOL... that's so STUPID. Your friend needs to buck his way up the ladder at the USPS until he gets to a guv'ment worker that knows the real rules. It could take several layers. ;-) Just another typical guv'ment SNAFU! People have liters of booze they pack in their luggage... that they buy at the airport's duty free store... all the time. It's just people getting on the planes like the underwear bomber and shoe bomber... or those of us trying to bring our own liters of booze onto the plane for them long plane trips.. lol... that they're trying to stop.... and can't even do that. ;-) I might have to go back to my old rule/joke... "Whenever I fly, I always bring a bomb with me... what's the chances of two people having a bomb on the same plane?" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Amber, They are very frustrating. A friend of mine that ships fish as part of his business cannot use USPS anymore because they claim the airline they use does not allow liquids on their planes. So this has been frustrating for him as it limits his shipping options which limits his ability to sell fish. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45819	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Stop the rant guys. Back on topic please.

Let's try to stay on topic. I am willing to bet our members outside the U.S. are less than fascinated with our opinions on the USPS. Thank you. -Mike, part time moderator and full time fish addict.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45820	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Spreadsheet--stocking aquariums

Some of you more experienced people might want to take a look at this and express your opinions. This has been sitting in my browser for about 2 weeks, but I have not had a chance to fully evaluate it yet, nor compare this unfinished work to the previous version. However, from what I have seen, I am not really impressed. http://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/fishsheeta7-prototype http://tinyurl.com/y8crw6x \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45821	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Which words are those? I'm sure my brother knows who funds the Post Office; he works for them. He's been telling us remarkable things, such as that under their union contract, NOONE can be laid off. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:15 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Of course you realize that this group is probably now being monitored for national security. You managed to pop several trigger words in there. Hmmm . . . trigger is probably one of those words, too. There goes hubby's security clearance. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) LOL... that's so STUPID. Your friend needs to buck his way up the ladder at the USPS until he gets to a guv'ment worker that knows the real rules. It could take several layers. ;-) Just another typical guv'ment SNAFU! People have liters of booze they pack in their luggage... that they buy at the airport's duty free store... all the time. It's just people getting on the planes like the underwear bomber and shoe bomber... or those of us trying to bring our own liters of booze onto the plane for them long plane trips.. lol... that they're trying to stop.... and can't even do that. ;-) I might have to go back to my old rule/joke... "Whenever I fly, I always bring a bomb with me... what's the chances of two people having a bomb on the same plane?" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Amber, They are very frustrating. A friend of mine that ships fish as part of his business cannot use USPS anymore because they claim the airline they use does not allow liquids on their planes. So this has been frustrating for him as it limits his shipping options which limits his ability to sell fish. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45822	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)

I wonder if the government is monitoring me, or if they long ago figured out I'm not worth it? I think that "cold war" would be an anti-trigger word, because noone who still knows that word is an imminent terroristic threat. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:06 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Well, I'm sure the Feds started monitoring this group when I joined. I haven't been known to be a sheeple since I first started voting. I've had political blogs on GeoCities, long before blogs was even a word. That's why I wear my tin-foil hat... to keep them from monitoring my thoughts before I publish them all over the internet... and prior to that... in newspaper reader replies to Op-Ed's. I guess you missed one of my previous rants where I talked about my old *joke* back in the late 70's and through current times, that I would pray every night that the Soviet Union would just NUKE the D.C. beltway to get rid of Congress, the President and all the lobbyists in one fell swoop and then we could just start over with a fresh slate of future crooks. At least none of them would have so much power compared to the so-called leaders today. Of course, I would probably have to pray that China does it nowadays since we spent down the Soviet Union during the Cold War. I don't think that the incompetent underwear or shoe bombers are ever going to be able to pull off a big feat like that.... so China, it's up to you to save us... again!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Of course you realize that this group is probably now being monitored for national security. You managed to pop several trigger words in there. Hmmm . . . trigger is probably one of those words, too. There goes hubby's security clearance. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:45 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) LOL... that's so STUPID. Your friend needs to buck his way up the ladder at the USPS until he gets to a guv'ment worker that knows the real rules. It could take several layers. ;-) Just another typical guv'ment SNAFU! People have liters of booze they pack in their luggage... that they buy at the airport's duty free store... all the time. It's just people getting on the planes like the underwear bomber and shoe bomber... or those of us trying to bring our own liters of booze onto the plane for them long plane trips.. lol... that they're trying to stop.... and can't even do that. ;-) I might have to go back to my old rule/joke... "Whenever I fly, I always bring a bomb with me... what's the chances of two people having a bomb on the same plane?" LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Amber, They are very frustrating. A friend of mine that ships fish as part of his business cannot use USPS anymore because they claim the airline they use does not allow liquids on their planes. So this has been frustrating for him as it limits his shipping options which limits his ability to sell fish. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45823	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Post Office has repeatedly told me that the tracking system is as good as the people who do the scanning. It sounds like noone scanned your packages. Scanning to prove delivery is often all done at once before the postman even leaves the post office in the morning. And of course it can't prove he delivered it to the right address. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45824	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: anyone want to tell me about Mystery Snails?

These snails look interesting. Are they plant eaters or more likely to stick to consuming algae? Please remember No Links as I can't see them with WEBTV. Thanks anyone! Happy Fishes, Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45825	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: New to Marine Life

www.reefcentral.com Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 2:15 AM, Angela Robinson wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > Thanks for the suggestion, but I�m confused. I did a yahoo search > and it > brought me to sex posts�.Eww! > > Perhaps you had the name of the group incorrect?....(I hope!) > > menuleaf_3Angela R. > > www.fairwoodbulldogs.com > > From: Lainey Alexander [mailto:lainealex@...] > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:19 PM > To: mymooser > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to Marine Life > > Hi Angela - > > I just wanted to write you privately and tell you that aquaticlife is > primarily a freshwater group, so I think you need a different group > to help > you. Have you tried reef central forum? I think they might be able > to help > you more... > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 14, 2010, at 5:12 PM, mymooser wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > My name is Angela. I'm new to the group, and new to marine life. > I currently have two goldfish and two beta's. > > For Christmas I got a 16 gallon Biorb from my new mother-in-law. > She also > got me the Marine conversion kit. > I've heard concern about these tanks, but I'm not able to return > this gift > as our relationship is a new sensitive one, if you know what I mean... > > I would like to keep one maybe two clown fish in it, along with a few > cleaning shrimp or crab. > > Before I get the tank ready to set up and start cycling, I wanted > to join > this group to learn more about saltwater fish and educate myself as > best I > can to make my situation work out. > > I know that many enthusiasts here will be critical about me keeping > this new > tank, but if anyone can offer their help and suggestions, I would > appreciate > it. > > My goal is to make this tank work out as best and safe as possible. > I would love your thoughts and educational support! > > -Angela > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45826	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Ram eggs cold

Sadly, my heater seems to have failed overnight in my ten g with the ram eggs on rock. The temp was 72 this morning. I am using a new heater now, but I'm not feeling good about the eggs - they don't look right, they're too pale. Does anyone know why these heaters are so unreliable? I have seven heaters all purchased in the past six months, and not one of them works properly. I have to set some at 87 to get 76 and some just don't work at all. I often have to use two, but even then, the thermostats are so unreliable. I have tried marineland, tetra, and a couple others. Is there a brand of heater that actually works? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45827	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

Now there's food for thought! And probably correct too!   Bill --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 11:17 PM      If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the USPS.  They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask government permission to raise prices.  Right now, the USPS is probably the only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...> For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the internet and other freight companies. Harry --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...>       Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL.  Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45828	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Hi Lainey,   I'm very sorry to hear about the eggs.  How are the parents doing?   There are a ton of good, reliable heaters, ebo jaguar to name one. Go onto Doctors and shop but regardless of name. I've always found that price is a lot, meaning you get what you pay for.  Also perhaps you might want to consider one of the new titanium heaters but they cost a bit more.   If all has gone badly this might be a good time to re-evaluate your Ram situation.  It seems like you have spent quite a bit of time working, and trying to save them.  Maybe you want to consider, if you can, a Ram tank?  If so, a 20-long as Ray suggested, would be excellent.  When they spawn again, you'll be really.  Setup the tank with a PF if you want but if you have those sponge filters and an air pump for them that's all that's necessary.  If you would like I could advise you further?   Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:22 AM > Sadly, my heater seems to have failed > overnight in my ten g with the  > ram eggs on rock. The temp was 72 this morning. I am using > a new  > heater now, but I'm not feeling good about the eggs - they > don't look  > right, they're too pale. > > Does anyone know why these heaters are so unreliable? I > have seven  > heaters all purchased in the past six months, and not one > of them  > works properly. I have to set some at 87 to get 76 and some > just  > don't work at all. I often have to use two,  but even > then, the  > thermostats are so unreliable. I have tried marineland, > tetra, and a  > couple others. > > Is there a brand of heater that actually works? > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45829	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Thanks, Bill - Let me make sure the eggs are goners and rethink this. I really don't have room for a 20g and I don't have time for another tank since I already have MTS and too many tanks as it is. But obviously the rams keep spawning, so what am I to do? I will look into these better heaters, because this is going nowhere with the cheapo ones I have. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:45 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > I'm very sorry to hear about the eggs. How are the parents doing? > > There are a ton of good, reliable heaters, ebo jaguar to name one. > Go onto Doctors and shop but regardless of name. I've always found > that price is a lot, meaning you get what you pay for. Also > perhaps you might > want to consider one of the new titanium heaters but they cost a > bit more. > > If all has gone badly this might be a good time to re-evaluate your > Ram > situation. It seems like you have spent quite a bit of time > working, and trying > to save them. Maybe you want to consider, if you can, a Ram tank? > If so, a 20-long as Ray suggested, would be excellent. When they > spawn again, you'll be really. Setup the tank with a PF if you > want but if you have those sponge filters > and an air pump for them that's all that's necessary. If you would > like I could advise you further? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:22 AM > > Sadly, my heater seems to have failed > > overnight in my ten g with the > > ram eggs on rock. The temp was 72 this morning. I am using > > a new > > heater now, but I'm not feeling good about the eggs - they > > don't look > > right, they're too pale. > > > > Does anyone know why these heaters are so unreliable? I > > have seven > > heaters all purchased in the past six months, and not one > > of them > > works properly. I have to set some at 87 to get 76 and some > > just > > don't work at all. I often have to use two, but even > > then, the > > thermostats are so unreliable. I have tried marineland, > > tetra, and a > > couple others. > > > > Is there a brand of heater that actually works? > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45830	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Oh, the ram parents are non-plussed. Obsessed with CO2 bubbles and snacks, IOW back to normal:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:45 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > I'm very sorry to hear about the eggs. How are the parents doing? > > There are a ton of good, reliable heaters, ebo jaguar to name one. > Go onto Doctors and shop but regardless of name. I've always found > that price is a lot, meaning you get what you pay for. Also > perhaps you might > want to consider one of the new titanium heaters but they cost a > bit more. > > If all has gone badly this might be a good time to re-evaluate your > Ram > situation. It seems like you have spent quite a bit of time > working, and trying > to save them. Maybe you want to consider, if you can, a Ram tank? > If so, a 20-long as Ray suggested, would be excellent. When they > spawn again, you'll be really. Setup the tank with a PF if you > want but if you have those sponge filters > and an air pump for them that's all that's necessary. If you would > like I could advise you further? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:22 AM > > Sadly, my heater seems to have failed > > overnight in my ten g with the > > ram eggs on rock. The temp was 72 this morning. I am using > > a new > > heater now, but I'm not feeling good about the eggs - they > > don't look > > right, they're too pale. > > > > Does anyone know why these heaters are so unreliable? I > > have seven > > heaters all purchased in the past six months, and not one > > of them > > works properly. I have to set some at 87 to get 76 and some > > just > > don't work at all. I often have to use two, but even > > then, the > > thermostats are so unreliable. I have tried marineland, > > tetra, and a > > couple others. > > > > Is there a brand of heater that actually works? > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45831	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Hi Lainey,    You mentioned MTS?  How many tanks and what size are they, that you do have already?  Sorry, if you mentioned before, I forgot?????   Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:48 AM > Oh, the ram parents are non-plussed. > Obsessed with CO2 bubbles and  > snacks, IOW back to normal:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:45 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > I'm very sorry to hear about the eggs.  How are > the parents doing? > > > > There are a ton of good, reliable heaters, ebo jaguar > to name one. > > Go onto Doctors and shop but regardless of name. I've > always found > > that price is a lot, meaning you get what you pay > for.  Also  > > perhaps you might > > want to consider one of the new titanium heaters but > they cost a  > > bit more. > > > > If all has gone badly this might be a good time to > re-evaluate your  > > Ram > > situation.  It seems like you have spent quite a > bit of time  > > working, and trying > > to save them.  Maybe you want to consider, if you > can, a Ram tank?    > > If so, a 20-long as Ray suggested, would be > excellent.  When they  > > spawn again, you'll be really.  Setup the tank > with a PF if you  > > want but if you have those sponge filters > > and an air pump for them that's all that's > necessary.  If you would  > > like I could advise you further? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:22 AM > > > Sadly, my heater seems to have failed > > > overnight in my ten g with the > > > ram eggs on rock. The temp was 72 this morning. I > am using > > > a new > > > heater now, but I'm not feeling good about the > eggs - they > > > don't look > > > right, they're too pale. > > > > > > Does anyone know why these heaters are so > unreliable? I > > > have seven > > > heaters all purchased in the past six months, and > not one > > > of them > > > works properly. I have to set some at 87 to get > 76 and some > > > just > > > don't work at all. I often have to use two,  > but even > > > then, the > > > thermostats are so unreliable. I have tried > marineland, > > > tetra, and a > > > couple others. > > > > > > Is there a brand of heater that actually works? > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45832	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

37 g, 20 g, 25 g, 10 g, 5 g Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 12:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > You mentioned MTS? How many tanks and what size are they, that you do > have already? Sorry, if you mentioned before, I forgot????? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:48 AM > > Oh, the ram parents are non-plussed. > > Obsessed with CO2 bubbles and > > snacks, IOW back to normal:) > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:45 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > I'm very sorry to hear about the eggs. How are > > the parents doing? > > > > > > There are a ton of good, reliable heaters, ebo jaguar > > to name one. > > > Go onto Doctors and shop but regardless of name. I've > > always found > > > that price is a lot, meaning you get what you pay > > for. Also > > > perhaps you might > > > want to consider one of the new titanium heaters but > > they cost a > > > bit more. > > > > > > If all has gone badly this might be a good time to > > re-evaluate your > > > Ram > > > situation. It seems like you have spent quite a > > bit of time > > > working, and trying > > > to save them. Maybe you want to consider, if you > > can, a Ram tank? > > > If so, a 20-long as Ray suggested, would be > > excellent. When they > > > spawn again, you'll be really. Setup the tank > > with a PF if you > > > want but if you have those sponge filters > > > and an air pump for them that's all that's > > necessary. If you would > > > like I could advise you further? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:22 AM > > > > Sadly, my heater seems to have failed > > > > overnight in my ten g with the > > > > ram eggs on rock. The temp was 72 this morning. I > > am using > > > > a new > > > > heater now, but I'm not feeling good about the > > eggs - they > > > > don't look > > > > right, they're too pale. > > > > > > > > Does anyone know why these heaters are so > > unreliable? I > > > > have seven > > > > heaters all purchased in the past six months, and > > not one > > > > of them > > > > works properly. I have to set some at 87 to get > > 76 and some > > > > just > > > > don't work at all. I often have to use two, > > but even > > > > then, the > > > > thermostats are so unreliable. I have tried > > marineland, > > > > tetra, and a > > > > couple others. > > > > > > > > Is there a brand of heater that actually works? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45833	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

And you already have fish, plant's, whatever in all? Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 12:03 PM > 37 g, 20 g, 25 g, 10 g, 5 g > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 12:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > You mentioned MTS?  How many tanks and what size > are they, that you do > > have already?  Sorry, if you mentioned before, I > forgot????? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:48 AM > > > Oh, the ram parents are non-plussed. > > > Obsessed with CO2 bubbles and > > > snacks, IOW back to normal:) > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:45 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > > > I'm very sorry to hear about the eggs.  > How are > > > the parents doing? > > > > > > > > There are a ton of good, reliable heaters, > ebo jaguar > > > to name one. > > > > Go onto Doctors and shop but regardless of > name. I've > > > always found > > > > that price is a lot, meaning you get what > you pay > > > for.  Also > > > > perhaps you might > > > > want to consider one of the new titanium > heaters but > > > they cost a > > > > bit more. > > > > > > > > If all has gone badly this might be a good > time to > > > re-evaluate your > > > > Ram > > > > situation.  It seems like you have > spent quite a > > > bit of time > > > > working, and trying > > > > to save them.  Maybe you want to > consider, if you > > > can, a Ram tank? > > > > If so, a 20-long as Ray suggested, would be > > > excellent.  When they > > > > spawn again, you'll be really.  Setup > the tank > > > with a PF if you > > > > want but if you have those sponge filters > > > > and an air pump for them that's all that's > > > necessary.  If you would > > > > like I could advise you further? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:22 > AM > > > > > Sadly, my heater seems to have failed > > > > > overnight in my ten g with the > > > > > ram eggs on rock. The temp was 72 this > morning. I > > > am using > > > > > a new > > > > > heater now, but I'm not feeling good > about the > > > eggs - they > > > > > don't look > > > > > right, they're too pale. > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know why these heaters are > so > > > unreliable? I > > > > > have seven > > > > > heaters all purchased in the past six > months, and > > > not one > > > > > of them > > > > > works properly. I have to set some at > 87 to get > > > 76 and some > > > > > just > > > > > don't work at all. I often have to use > two, > > > but even > > > > > then, the > > > > > thermostats are so unreliable. I have > tried > > > marineland, > > > > > tetra, and a > > > > > couple others. > > > > > > > > > > Is there a brand of heater that > actually works? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45834	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

...to the hilt, yes... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 12:41 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > And you already have fish, plant's, whatever in all? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 12:03 PM > > 37 g, 20 g, 25 g, 10 g, 5 g > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 12:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > You mentioned MTS? How many tanks and what size > > are they, that you do > > > have already? Sorry, if you mentioned before, I > > forgot????? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:48 AM > > > > Oh, the ram parents are non-plussed. > > > > Obsessed with CO2 bubbles and > > > > snacks, IOW back to normal:) > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:45 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > I'm very sorry to hear about the eggs. > > How are > > > > the parents doing? > > > > > > > > > > There are a ton of good, reliable heaters, > > ebo jaguar > > > > to name one. > > > > > Go onto Doctors and shop but regardless of > > name. I've > > > > always found > > > > > that price is a lot, meaning you get what > > you pay > > > > for. Also > > > > > perhaps you might > > > > > want to consider one of the new titanium > > heaters but > > > > they cost a > > > > > bit more. > > > > > > > > > > If all has gone badly this might be a good > > time to > > > > re-evaluate your > > > > > Ram > > > > > situation. It seems like you have > > spent quite a > > > > bit of time > > > > > working, and trying > > > > > to save them. Maybe you want to > > consider, if you > > > > can, a Ram tank? > > > > > If so, a 20-long as Ray suggested, would be > > > > excellent. When they > > > > > spawn again, you'll be really. Setup > > the tank > > > > with a PF if you > > > > > want but if you have those sponge filters > > > > > and an air pump for them that's all that's > > > > necessary. If you would > > > > > like I could advise you further? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:22 > > AM > > > > > > Sadly, my heater seems to have failed > > > > > > overnight in my ten g with the > > > > > > ram eggs on rock. The temp was 72 this > > morning. I > > > > am using > > > > > > a new > > > > > > heater now, but I'm not feeling good > > about the > > > > eggs - they > > > > > > don't look > > > > > > right, they're too pale. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know why these heaters are > > so > > > > unreliable? I > > > > > > have seven > > > > > > heaters all purchased in the past six > > months, and > > > > not one > > > > > > of them > > > > > > works properly. I have to set some at > > 87 to get > > > > 76 and some > > > > > > just > > > > > > don't work at all. I often have to use > > two, > > > > but even > > > > > > then, the > > > > > > thermostats are so unreliable. I have > > tried > > > > marineland, > > > > > > tetra, and a > > > > > > couple others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there a brand of heater that > > actually works? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > > > , > > .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45835	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Sorry to hear about the heater problem. When paying a fair amount of money for a name brand product we should at least except them to work properly for the first few months or so, if not longer. As your investment in a heater is your insurance that the fish will be maintained in the temperature range that's necessary for their survival, it really doesn't pay to try to save any money on them, even when they're offered by a well recognized manufacturer. This is the one item you shouldn't hestitate in laying out a few extra bucks to ensure the best quality. That said, while any heater can fail at any time, there are a few heaters that are reliably better than the rest, even though you can expect to pay $25 or more for them. These include: Eheim Jager, Visi-Therm and Rena -- all submersible heaters. The description of the eggs doesn't sound very good, but with ther slow return to normal heat they may just surprise you and continue to develop -- you'll have to wait and see. Lots of luck with them. As the pair have now spawn a couple of times now, there's every reason to expect them to spawn again in the near future. Don't give up hope. If nothing else, this experience will make you even better prepared the next time. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45836	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

I have an Eheim jager right now in a 20g set for 83 degrees and it's only able to maintain 76 - it's three months old, and it's oversized, I think it's for up to 60g. And, the room temp is 72! It's frustrating. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 12:46 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Sorry to hear about the heater problem. When paying a fair amount > of money > for a name brand product we should at least except them to work > properly > for the first few months or so, if not longer. As your investment > in a heater > is your insurance that the fish will be maintained in the > temperature range > that's necessary for their survival, it really doesn't pay to try > to save > any money on them, even when they're offered by a well recognized > manufacturer. This is the one item you shouldn't hestitate in > laying out a few extra > bucks to ensure the best quality. > > That said, while any heater can fail at any time, there are a few > heaters > that are reliably better than the rest, even though you can expect > to pay $25 > or more for them. These include: Eheim Jager, Visi-Therm and Rena > -- all > submersible heaters. The description of the eggs doesn't sound very > good, > but with ther slow return to normal heat they may just surprise you > and > continue to develop -- you'll have to wait and see. Lots of luck > with them. As > the pair have now spawn a couple of times now, there's every reason > to expect > them to spawn again in the near future. Don't give up hope. If nothing > else, this experience will make you even better prepared the next > time. Ray > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45837	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Yeah Bill, It amuses me when hobbyists mention they have MTS (and they're not referring to their snails, < g >), and their definition of "multi" is a few more than one (LOL). They don't KNOW what "MTS" can really mean!!! Judging from the behavior of the Rams though, I would not advise going into a dedicated Ram tank since it looks like they are presently becoming inattentive and all too soon becoming tired of being devoted to this chore of raising a spawn. While many pairs may display this behavior early on and become better parents at a later date, it's impossible to determine when that time might be. If raising Ram fry is a project that Lainey would like to undertake, for the present time it looks like the eggs should be removed from the parents shortly after they've spawned. Otherwise, if this is not a particular goal, and there is room for another tank, the pair could be set up in it with the expectation that for the near-term, that unless the pair does a complete turn around in their attitude successful raising of the fry by the parents will probably not be on the immediate horizon. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45838	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

But, see, my limitation is that I have had to abandon my tap water which is softened and troublesome well water, because it was killing all my plants. I am using RO now, exclusively, and everything is going swimmingly:) However, I loathe to think how I could expand my MTS with the RO because I'm certain it would involve hundred gallon jugs in the basement tubed up through drilled holes in the floor with multiple floats and pumps and so on. As it is, I can barely deal with the five gallon jugs of RO with pumps on the tops. So I may be doomed to the pitiful MTS status that I currently have. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:12 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Yeah Bill, It amuses me when hobbyists mention they have MTS (and > they're > not referring to their snails, < g >), and their definition of > "multi" is a > few more than one (LOL). They don't KNOW what "MTS" can really mean!!! > > Judging from the behavior of the Rams though, I would not advise > going into > a dedicated Ram tank since it looks like they are presently becoming > inattentive and all too soon becoming tired of being devoted to > this chore of > raising a spawn. While many pairs may display this behavior early > on and become > better parents at a later date, it's impossible to determine when > that time > might be. If raising Ram fry is a project that Lainey would like to > undertake, for the present time it looks like the eggs should be > removed from the > parents shortly after they've spawned. Otherwise, if this is not a > particular goal, and there is room for another tank, the pair could > be set up in it > with the expectation that for the near-term, that unless the pair > does a > complete turn around in their attitude successful raising of the > fry by the > parents will probably not be on the immediate horizon. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45839	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Well then, your problem is simple or complex, or both at once!   First, you have to decide on which tank you want to give to them.  Not knowing the exact sizes of what you have, I would say the longest across the front (L) and widest front to back (W) you want to give up.   Oh, I know what your going to say next!  But Bill, I don't want to give up any of my tanks!  Spoken like a true person afflicted with MTS!   Then you have only two choices left.  Forget the Rams altogether OR you buy one more tank!  JUST one.  Assuming all of these tanks are freshwater and not salt, you can combine them all into a 55-gallon. (Hint:  a 75-gallon is exactly the same measurement as a 55 only its 18 inches wider, instead of the 12 1/2 of the 55).  If you elect to go this route, remember that your actually going to GAIN in floor space by getting rid of the smaller tanks and your only buying one so you might as well fill the space up.  Also, we all know, bigger tanks are really less work and also slower for things to go wrong inside of them..   MTS in the form that you have, is exactly what I had over 30 years ago.  It is a direct result of buying to many smaller tanks and using up valuable floor space to begin with.  Am I right?  Look at it this way, in the beginning, if you got a 20-long and then a 55 do you think you would have all those other smaller tanks now? Of course not!  But then, the MTS can take a nasty turn as mine did, and go to the larger tanks right away.  6, 55's and 3-100 gallon, and about 15, 20-longs.  Here the best advise I can offer you is to stay away from all Aquarium Showrooms!   Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 12:42 PM > ...to the hilt, yes... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 12:41 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > And you already have fish, plant's, whatever in all? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 12:03 PM > > > 37 g, 20 g, 25 g, 10 g, 5 g > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 12:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > > > You mentioned MTS?  How many tanks and > what size > > > are they, that you do > > > > have already?  Sorry, if you mentioned > before, I > > > forgot????? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs > cold > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:48 > AM > > > > > Oh, the ram parents are non-plussed. > > > > > Obsessed with CO2 bubbles and > > > > > snacks, IOW back to normal:) > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:45 AM, bill 1433 > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm very sorry to hear about the > eggs. > > > How are > > > > > the parents doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a ton of good, reliable > heaters, > > > ebo jaguar > > > > > to name one. > > > > > > Go onto Doctors and shop but > regardless of > > > name. I've > > > > > always found > > > > > > that price is a lot, meaning you > get what > > > you pay > > > > > for.  Also > > > > > > perhaps you might > > > > > > want to consider one of the new > titanium > > > heaters but > > > > > they cost a > > > > > > bit more. > > > > > > > > > > > > If all has gone badly this might > be a good > > > time to > > > > > re-evaluate your > > > > > > Ram > > > > > > situation.  It seems like you > have > > > spent quite a > > > > > bit of time > > > > > > working, and trying > > > > > > to save them.  Maybe you want > to > > > consider, if you > > > > > can, a Ram tank? > > > > > > If so, a 20-long as Ray suggested, > would be > > > > > excellent.  When they > > > > > > spawn again, you'll be > really.  Setup > > > the tank > > > > > with a PF if you > > > > > > want but if you have those sponge > filters > > > > > > and an air pump for them that's > all that's > > > > > necessary.  If you would > > > > > > like I could advise you further? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey > Alexander  > > <lainealex@...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram > eggs cold > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, > 2010, 11:22 > > > AM > > > > > > > Sadly, my heater seems to > have failed > > > > > > > overnight in my ten g with > the > > > > > > > ram eggs on rock. The temp > was 72 this > > > morning. I > > > > > am using > > > > > > > a new > > > > > > > heater now, but I'm not > feeling good > > > about the > > > > > eggs - they > > > > > > > don't look > > > > > > > right, they're too pale. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know why these > heaters are > > > so > > > > > unreliable? I > > > > > > > have seven > > > > > > > heaters all purchased in the > past six > > > months, and > > > > > not one > > > > > > > of them > > > > > > > works properly. I have to set > some at > > > 87 to get > > > > > 76 and some > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > don't work at all. I often > have to use > > > two, > > > > > but even > > > > > > > then, the > > > > > > > thermostats are so > unreliable. I have > > > tried > > > > > marineland, > > > > > > > tetra, and a > > > > > > > couple others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there a brand of heater > that > > > actually works? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > message have > > > been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it > > > > > when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > & if > > > CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your HELP > > > in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups > > > emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > your > > > delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes > > > up to 25 > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > where you will > > > still be > > > > > able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group > and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45840	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Wanted to get back quick. You're carrying all the jugs of water to the tanks upstairs? Only one question? Why didn't you install the RO directly under your kitchen sink upstairs? The unit is too big for that? You have me lost here???? Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 1:20 PM > But, see, my limitation is that I > have had to abandon my tap water  > which is softened and troublesome well water, because it > was killing  > all my plants. I am using RO now, exclusively, and > everything is  > going swimmingly:) However, I loathe to think how I could > expand my  > MTS with the RO because I'm certain it would involve > hundred gallon  > jugs in the basement tubed up through drilled holes in the > floor with  > multiple floats and pumps and so on. As it is, I can barely > deal with  > the five gallon jugs of RO with pumps on the tops. > > So I may be doomed to the pitiful MTS status that I > currently have. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:12 PM, sevenspringss@... > wrote: > > > > > > > Yeah Bill, It amuses me when hobbyists mention they > have MTS (and  > > they're > > not referring to their snails, < g >), and their > definition of  > > "multi" is a > > few more than one (LOL). They don't KNOW what "MTS" > can really mean!!! > > > > Judging from the behavior of the Rams though, I would > not advise  > > going into > > a dedicated Ram tank since it looks like they are > presently becoming > > inattentive and all too soon becoming tired of being > devoted to  > > this chore of > > raising a spawn. While many pairs may display this > behavior early  > > on and become > > better parents at a later date, it's impossible to > determine when  > > that time > > might be. If raising Ram fry is a project that Lainey > would like to > > undertake, for the present time it looks like the eggs > should be  > > removed from the > > parents shortly after they've spawned. Otherwise, if > this is not a > > particular goal, and there is room for another tank, > the pair could  > > be set up in it > > with the expectation that for the near-term, that > unless the pair  > > does a > > complete turn around in their attitude successful > raising of the  > > fry by the > > parents will probably not be on the immediate horizon. > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45841	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Lainey, Eheim (Hawaiian Marine Imports) recommends a 150 Watt heater for a 60 gallon tank (not that it should require that though). If this is what you have, and it can't maintain its set temperature even in a 10 gallon tank, you should take it back to the LFS. Eheim Jager heaters are warrantied for a period of one year against defects in material and workmanship. This heater is obviously defective, unless you got water in it (they state their heaters are not submersible, probably to protect themselves against claims from leakers). You shouldn't need more than a 50 Watt heater for the 10 gallon tank, but since you need to boost it up to 84 o, a 75 Watt would be better. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45842	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

how would the heater work if not submersible? maybe mine is a different kind? mine is submersible - long tube goes into a sheath... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:39 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Eheim (Hawaiian Marine Imports) recommends a 150 Watt > heater for a > 60 gallon tank (not that it should require that though). If this is > what > you have, and it can't maintain its set temperature even in a 10 > gallon tank, > you should take it back to the LFS. Eheim Jager heaters are > warrantied for > a period of one year against defects in material and workmanship. This > heater is obviously defective, unless you got water in it (they > state their > heaters are not submersible, probably to protect themselves against > claims from > leakers). You shouldn't need more than a 50 Watt heater for the 10 > gallon > tank, but since you need to boost it up to 84 o, a 75 Watt would be > better. > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45843	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

When you say RO exclusively, I hope you're either mixing some tap or using a product like Kent's RO Right. RO water by itself will not sustain life. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold But, see, my limitation is that I have had to abandon my tap water which is softened and troublesome well water, because it was killing all my plants. I am using RO now, exclusively, and everything is going swimmingly:) However, I loathe to think how I could expand my MTS with the RO because I'm certain it would involve hundred gallon jugs in the basement tubed up through drilled holes in the floor with multiple floats and pumps and so on. As it is, I can barely deal with the five gallon jugs of RO with pumps on the tops. So I may be doomed to the pitiful MTS status that I currently have. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:12 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Yeah Bill, It amuses me when hobbyists mention they have MTS (and > they're not referring to their snails, < g >), and their definition of > "multi" is a few more than one (LOL). They don't KNOW what "MTS" can > really mean!!! > > Judging from the behavior of the Rams though, I would not advise going > into a dedicated Ram tank since it looks like they are presently > becoming inattentive and all too soon becoming tired of being devoted > to this chore of raising a spawn. While many pairs may display this > behavior early on and become better parents at a later date, it's > impossible to determine when that time might be. If raising Ram fry is > a project that Lainey would like to undertake, for the present time it > looks like the eggs should be removed from the parents shortly after > they've spawned. Otherwise, if this is not a particular goal, and > there is room for another tank, the pair could be set up in it with > the expectation that for the near-term, that unless the pair does a > complete turn around in their attitude successful raising of the fry > by the parents will probably not be on the immediate horizon. > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45844	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

I'm not saying not to use your heater as a submersible, but I note Eheim's statement on it when going to their site, unless I was misdirected. It appeared that they'd prefer the hobbyist to position their heater like the first Ebo Jagers were recommended to be used, with the control knob above water as there was a line on the tube just beneath that, indicating it being positioned there at the surface. Doesn't make any sense to me either, with their heaters being improved now to be submersible. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45845	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

Do you have a reference for that? My reference is hubby, who is a supervisor in the USPS. They used to get government money, but now they are very close to incorporating and becoming completely free of all gov. connections. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber Very false. See my reply from a few minutes ago. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber Very true Deb. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@ <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the internet and other freight companies. Harry --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45846	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OT Rant about USPS shipping ;)

But they can become very legalistic and create an atmosphere that has inspired many to either walk away in frustration or do something that gets them fired. That seems to be how they're doing at my hubby's post office. Sooorry, Mom, I'll try to stop now. :-] DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) > Which words are those? > > I'm sure my brother knows who funds the Post Office; he works for them. > He's been telling us remarkable things, such as that under their union > contract, NOONE can be laid off. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45847	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OT Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

Apparently junk food, though, as I'm sure you've read Lenny's post by now. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> Now there's food for thought! And probably correct too! Bill --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 11:17 PM If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45848	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

I guess you do have references. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:55 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber Ummmm.. I'm not sure where you got that info from. They are housed in Federal government owned buildings and do not pay property taxes (that's a taxpayer subsidy), except for their limited number of locations that might be in retail shopping centers, their employees are covered by Federal government subsidized insurance programs, their vehicles are owned by the Federal government and have Federal government license plates on them and are exempt from State insurance laws and if they get in an accident, you have to go through a Federal government claims procedure where the Dept. Of Justice represents and defends the USPS and if you have to sue them, you have to do it in Federal Court... and I could go on and on. They are WHOLLY OWNED by the taxpayers who establishes their annual budget and finances their quarterly losses (off-budget as you'll see below). They've lost money for 11 out of the last 12 quarters. Up until recent years, they were covered by their own Federal Government Retirement program, just like Congress, and DID NOT pay Social Security, although that has changed recently with the oncoming failure of Social Security so the Feds did this to try and bolster Social Security with additional payers. Snips from a USA Today article last year... http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-03-25-postal-woes_N.htm "With the Postal Service facing budget shortfalls the subcommittee will consider a number of options to restore financial stability and examine ways for the Postal Service to continue to operate without cutting services," subcommittee chairman Stephen F. Lynch, D-Mass., said.... ...Blair also noted that Congress could consider appropriating money to help the post office. Currently the agency does not receive a taxpayer subsidy for its operations, although Congress does subsidize overseas voting and free mail for the blind. (LV adds: UMMMMM... that is taxpayer subsidized, as is the franking privileges for politicians who send mail at no charge and as stated above, the USPS gets low or no-cost rent, free lawyers, etc., all paid for by the taxpayers.) William Young, president of the National Association of Letter Carriers, stressed in his testimony that the agency is not seeking a taxpayer bailout, "but we are here to ask the Congress for help."... Lawmakers also raised questions regarding recent news reports which said Potter is paid as much as $800,000 a year. That is not correct, Potter said. He said his salary, set by Congress, is $263,575. He said the news reports were also counting his retirement fund, the cost of his security detail and a $135,000 bonus which would be paid over 10 years after he retires. The bonus is based on improved delivery rates and customer satisfaction, he said. Under the current financial conditions, Potter said, he would not be eligible for a bonus this year. Carolyn Gallagher, chairwoman of the postal governing board, said postal executives are paid only a fraction of what executives in similarly sized businesses receive. (END SNIPS) Two snips from a USPS Press Release from last year... http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2009/pr09_047.htm An independent federal agency, the U.S. Postal Service is the only delivery service that reaches every address in the nation... (snipped from the disclaimer at the bottom of the Press Release) WASHINGTON - The U.S. Postal Service ended its second quarter (Jan 1 - March 31) with a net loss of $1.9 billion, as the economic recession and longer-term financial pressures, such as the diversion of letter mail to electronic alternatives, continued to reduce mail volume and revenue. Despite aggressive actions to reduce costs and grow revenue, the Postal Service will likely face a cash shortfall of over $1.5 billion at the end of the fiscal year... ...The Postal Service continues to support H.R. 22, a House bill that would redirect a portion of the Postal Service's prior payments to the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Trust Fund to pay its share of contributions for current retiree health benefits through 2016. If enacted, the legislation would reduce the projected 2009 net loss by approximately $2 billion and help enable the Postal Service to meet its 2009 financial obligations. The bill was introduced by Rep. John McHugh (R-NY) and co-sponsored by Rep. Danny Davis (D-IL). As of today, the bill has 297 co-sponsors... (END SNIPS) From The Heritage Foundation (archives from 1989) http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg716.cfm The bipartisan budget agreement between Congress and the Bush Administration includes a proposal to remove the United States Postal Service (USPS) from the unified federal budget. By transferring the USPSs expected fiscal 1990 loss of $1.8 billion to the nether world of off-budget accounting, the government would create the illusion of reducing the deficit without having to cut spending or boost revenue. This is accounting gimmickry that simply tries to achieve deficit reduction targets by pretending that parts of the deficit do not really exist. It violates the principle of the governments unified budget: to be a thorough accounting of federal activities and outlays. Removal from the budget of any program for purposes of transitory convenience only misleads the public and undermines important principles of full disclosure. Failing the Test. There are, of course, legitimate reasons to consider conferring-off-budget status on certain government-related enterprises. Chief among them, according to the 1987 Presidents Commission on Budget Concepts, is that the enterprise be completely privately owned. The Federal National Mortgage Association is an example of an off-budget privately owned, government-sponsored enterprise. Obviously, the USPS fails this test. (END SNIP) They are a wholly owned Federal Government Agency built, paid for and continually subsidized by the taxpayers. And, as far as your thoughts about FEDEX and UPS maybe charging higher prices if the USPS wasn't around... that may or may not be true but since they base their prices slightly above (in most cases) what the Post Office charges, as they know folks will pay those higher prices, we'll never know. Unless there was a true free-market test to see if they would raise or lower their prices. Frankly, I'd rather the marketplace establish pricing for everything instead of a guv'ment agency having any say-so in the matter... like what has happened in the past (since Medicaid and Medicare) and will further happen with the EXTREME GROWTH in guv'ment healthcare. All that said, I'm not advocating the abolishment of the USPS but they DO NEED to change their business model to bring themselves into the modern ages if they want to compete with REAL private but publicly traded companies like UPS and FEDEX... or they should be allowed to go bankrupt and reorganize themselves... first by re-negotiating their ridiculously high union costs, contracts and benefits... but that won't happen before November 2010 or 2012 depending on those election cycles. Fish! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...> For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the internet and other freight companies. Harry --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45849	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Stop the rant guys. Back on topic please.

Motherrrr! You ruin ALL the fuuuuun! ;-) DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 5:41 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Stop the rant guys. Back on topic please. Let's try to stay on topic. I am willing to bet our members outside the U.S. are less than fascinated with our opinions on the USPS. Thank you. -Mike, part time moderator and full time fish addict. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45850	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

The RO is on the kitchen sink, however, I like to keep enough water stored to do up to 40g worth of WCs, and since RO is slow to make, I'm constantly drawing the RO into five gallon storage jugs and setting them on the floor around the tanks (already not too attractive). That way, the unit is always making me more RO. If I needed even more RO, to feed more MTS tanks, I'm thinking that I would need to go for a much larger storage system like a 100g barrel which would not fit on my living floor where the tanks are. So it would have to go in the basement, and then get tubed up to the tanks on the floor above. Don't get me started! I don't even want to think about the logistics of this! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:36 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Wanted to get back quick. You're carrying all the jugs of water > to the tanks upstairs? > > Only one question? Why didn't you install the RO directly under > your kitchen sink upstairs? The unit is too big for that? > > You have me lost here???? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 1:20 PM > > But, see, my limitation is that I > > have had to abandon my tap water > > which is softened and troublesome well water, because it > > was killing > > all my plants. I am using RO now, exclusively, and > > everything is > > going swimmingly:) However, I loathe to think how I could > > expand my > > MTS with the RO because I'm certain it would involve > > hundred gallon > > jugs in the basement tubed up through drilled holes in the > > floor with > > multiple floats and pumps and so on. As it is, I can barely > > deal with > > the five gallon jugs of RO with pumps on the tops. > > > > So I may be doomed to the pitiful MTS status that I > > currently have. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:12 PM, sevenspringss@... > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah Bill, It amuses me when hobbyists mention they > > have MTS (and > > > they're > > > not referring to their snails, < g >), and their > > definition of > > > "multi" is a > > > few more than one (LOL). They don't KNOW what "MTS" > > can really mean!!! > > > > > > Judging from the behavior of the Rams though, I would > > not advise > > > going into > > > a dedicated Ram tank since it looks like they are > > presently becoming > > > inattentive and all too soon becoming tired of being > > devoted to > > > this chore of > > > raising a spawn. While many pairs may display this > > behavior early > > > on and become > > > better parents at a later date, it's impossible to > > determine when > > > that time > > > might be. If raising Ram fry is a project that Lainey > > would like to > > > undertake, for the present time it looks like the eggs > > should be > > > removed from the > > > parents shortly after they've spawned. Otherwise, if > > this is not a > > > particular goal, and there is room for another tank, > > the pair could > > > be set up in it > > > with the expectation that for the near-term, that > > unless the pair > > > does a > > > complete turn around in their attitude successful > > raising of the > > > fry by the > > > parents will probably not be on the immediate horizon. > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45851	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

I use the RO Right. It seems to work very well. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 2:04 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > When you say RO exclusively, I hope you're either mixing some tap > or using a > product like Kent's RO Right. RO water by itself will not sustain > life. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > But, see, my limitation is that I have had to abandon my tap water > which is > softened and troublesome well water, because it was killing all my > plants. I > am using RO now, exclusively, and everything is going swimmingly:) > However, > I loathe to think how I could expand my MTS with the RO because I'm > certain > it would involve hundred gallon jugs in the basement tubed up through > drilled holes in the floor with multiple floats and pumps and so > on. As it > is, I can barely deal with the five gallon jugs of RO with pumps on > the > tops. > > So I may be doomed to the pitiful MTS status that I currently have. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:12 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > Yeah Bill, It amuses me when hobbyists mention they have MTS (and > > they're not referring to their snails, < g >), and their > definition of > > "multi" is a few more than one (LOL). They don't KNOW what "MTS" can > > really mean!!! > > > > Judging from the behavior of the Rams though, I would not advise > going > > into a dedicated Ram tank since it looks like they are presently > > becoming inattentive and all too soon becoming tired of being > devoted > > to this chore of raising a spawn. While many pairs may display this > > behavior early on and become better parents at a later date, it's > > impossible to determine when that time might be. If raising Ram > fry is > > a project that Lainey would like to undertake, for the present > time it > > looks like the eggs should be removed from the parents shortly after > > they've spawned. Otherwise, if this is not a particular goal, and > > there is room for another tank, the pair could be set up in it with > > the expectation that for the near-term, that unless the pair does a > > complete turn around in their attitude successful raising of the fry > > by the parents will probably not be on the immediate horizon. > > Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45852	From: harry perry	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Your using the R.O. unit to remove vital minerals and then putting them back with R.O. Right. Did you ever try just using dechlorinated tap water just for your fish?. Harry --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 2:23 PM I use the RO Right. It seems to work very well. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 2:04 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > When you say RO exclusively, I hope you're either mixing some tap  > or using a > product like Kent's RO Right. RO water by itself will not sustain  > life. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the  > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year,  > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > But, see, my limitation is that I have had to abandon my tap water  > which is > softened and troublesome well water, because it was killing all my  > plants. I > am using RO now, exclusively, and everything is going swimmingly:)  > However, > I loathe to think how I could expand my MTS with the RO because I'm  > certain > it would involve hundred gallon jugs in the basement tubed up through > drilled holes in the floor with multiple floats and pumps and so  > on. As it > is, I can barely deal with the five gallon jugs of RO with pumps on  > the > tops. > > So I may be doomed to the pitiful MTS status that I currently have. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:12 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > Yeah Bill, It amuses me when hobbyists mention they have MTS (and > > they're not referring to their snails, < g >), and their  > definition of > > "multi" is a few more than one (LOL). They don't KNOW what "MTS" can > > really mean!!! > > > > Judging from the behavior of the Rams though, I would not advise  > going > > into a dedicated Ram tank since it looks like they are presently > > becoming inattentive and all too soon becoming tired of being  > devoted > > to this chore of raising a spawn. While many pairs may display this > > behavior early on and become better parents at a later date, it's > > impossible to determine when that time might be. If raising Ram  > fry is > > a project that Lainey would like to undertake, for the present  > time it > > looks like the eggs should be removed from the parents shortly after > > they've spawned. Otherwise, if this is not a particular goal, and > > there is room for another tank, the pair could be set up in it with > > the expectation that for the near-term, that unless the pair does a > > complete turn around in their attitude successful raising of the fry > > by the parents will probably not be on the immediate horizon. > > Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY  > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership"  > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest,  > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail  > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45853	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Hi Lainey, Again with a bigger tank BUT once setup, you would actually use less jugs! What concerns me more is this cut and paste from Lenny's message: "When you say RO exclusively". If you're doing this you should be mixing at least some of it. 100% RO is not good. Also your working that unit to death, should it fail-------------. There are a lot of technical aspects of this but I lack the knowledge to present it to you properly. I can tell you that all waters contain salts and electrolytes that are not only beneficial to fish but out right necessary. RO water has none of these most necessary elements. Distilled water is just as bad. Now I can tell you that I have well water and started up using Distilled only. It took Ray and others months to teach me this is wrong. Hard head here, ya know! I don't know why they can't adjust to your well water as is unless high ammonia or something but there are ways around that. Right now I can tell you my water is very soft and low pH. It bring it more in line, I use 4 tablespoons of crushed coral in the PF in a nylon sock. WC's on a 29-gallon tank twice a week at 4-gallons each on regular well water that now is 7.0 with a GH of 60 and a KH of 20. Without crushed coral, none of the above readings would apply. Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 2:23 PM > I use the RO Right. It seems to work > very well. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 2:04 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When you say RO exclusively, I hope you're either > mixing some tap  > > or using a > > product like Kent's RO Right. RO water by itself will > not sustain  > > life. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the  > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year,  > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold > > > > But, see, my limitation is that I have had to abandon > my tap water  > > which is > > softened and troublesome well water, because it was > killing all my  > > plants. I > > am using RO now, exclusively, and everything is going > swimmingly:)  > > However, > > I loathe to think how I could expand my MTS with the > RO because I'm  > > certain > > it would involve hundred gallon jugs in the basement > tubed up through > > drilled holes in the floor with multiple floats and > pumps and so  > > on. As it > > is, I can barely deal with the five gallon jugs of RO > with pumps on  > > the > > tops. > > > > So I may be doomed to the pitiful MTS status that I > currently have. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:12 PM, sevenspringss@... > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah Bill, It amuses me when hobbyists mention > they have MTS (and > > > they're not referring to their snails, < g > >), and their  > > definition of > > > "multi" is a few more than one (LOL). They don't > KNOW what "MTS" can > > > really mean!!! > > > > > > Judging from the behavior of the Rams though, I > would not advise  > > going > > > into a dedicated Ram tank since it looks like > they are presently > > > becoming inattentive and all too soon becoming > tired of being  > > devoted > > > to this chore of raising a spawn. While many > pairs may display this > > > behavior early on and become better parents at a > later date, it's > > > impossible to determine when that time might be. > If raising Ram  > > fry is > > > a project that Lainey would like to undertake, > for the present  > > time it > > > looks like the eggs should be removed from the > parents shortly after > > > they've spawned. Otherwise, if this is not a > particular goal, and > > > there is room for another tank, the pair could be > set up in it with > > > the expectation that for the near-term, that > unless the pair does a > > > complete turn around in their attitude successful > raising of the fry > > > by the parents will probably not be on the > immediate horizon. > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY  > > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership"  > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45854	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Stop the rant guys. Back on topic please.

Only fun for you insiders. Even some members inside the US are less than fascinated with opinions on the USPS. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Stop the rant guys. Back on topic please. Motherrrr! You ruin ALL the fuuuuun! ;-) DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 5:41 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Stop the rant guys. Back on topic please. Let's try to stay on topic. I am willing to bet our members outside the U.S. are less than fascinated with our opinions on the USPS. Thank you. -Mike, part time moderator and full time fish addict. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45855	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Since you're planning on putting a 100 gallon storage container in the basement <g>, why don't you just turn part of your basement into a fish room so that everything is handy (and of course, you can add more tanks -- LOL). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45856	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Fishy 911

Very true. I learned this lesson when I had to bring my Angelfish a new "wife", the 1.5" size were too small to show genders, and the 2" were unreasonably more expensive than the previous size! (about double in price). Now when I trade my big fish for smaller ones, I intentionally "buy" some small cheap equipments on the same visit, the LFS man would feel "obliged" to make me a good discount. lol Otherwise they just take my big ones and hand me the small ones with a good "GOODBYE". Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > Any good pet shop would be crazy to not replace a larger clown loach with a smaller one. If you look at the prices of the different sixes of clown loach, (and the division is sometimes as small as 1/4 inch between sizes) it jumps rather fast.So they take your 6 inch loaches and give you 2 inch loaches. They sell the small loaches at say $5 each and the 6 inch ones at $30 to $50 each. Yes If your clown loaches gets too large I will gladly trade you for smaller ones. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greyclouds99" <greyclouds99@> wrote: > > > > YES, the LFS would love to take them when they grow too big for me, in fact I mentioned in my first post that those three baby loaches came to replace the ones who got too big. > > > > > > Your Botia kubotai is not really available here, naaa.. that was just an excuse, true, but still is an excuse, I think I'm going to spell the truth... I FELL IN LOVE WITH CLOWN LOACHES! > > > > Blushing Tristan > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > clown loaches get huge, hope they trade them back in for you when they > > > get bigger. > > > Have you thought about other botia's that only get 5 inches? I just got > > > some really cute botia kubotai's this week, very fun to watch. They only > > > get 5-6 inches from what I've read. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > greyclouds99 wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry, my fault, I meant Clown Loaches (Botia). > > > > When I contacted the store yesterday they just told me to put a heater > > > > in their bowl/tank. > > > > They're currently in the 2gal with a heater and air line, the temp is > > > > set to 80.5, they're moving well and eating and sometimes hiding > > > > behind the rock as they're supposed to. > > > > Should I perform any water changes during these remaining 24 hours as > > > > there's no filtration? > > > > Tristan > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45857	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should never use pure R/O water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too hard, but since you never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may be suitable or not. Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard for the fish you like to keep, and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, you should still mix your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio of 80% (or 75%) R/O water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium water at least a minimal amount of elements. There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like a vacuum for any minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or indirectly as in through an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out the calcium in the bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. This ultra-pure water will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in the fishes' bodies through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, besides oxygen and carbon dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. Water completely devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of fry's skeletal structure, resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even sometimes deformities. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45858	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

Incorporating?!!! LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:45 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > Do you have a reference for that? My reference is hubby, who is a > supervisor in the USPS. They used to get government money, but now they > are > very close to incorporating and becoming completely free of all gov. > connections. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:55 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > > > Very false. See my reply from a few minutes ago. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > > Very true Deb. > > > > Eric > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > > > > > > If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the > USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask > government > permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the only > reason > that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@ <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the > internet and other freight companies. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > com> > > Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by > > the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish > > supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS > > the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. > > So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't > > it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if > > their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. > > I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our > > USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. > > Amber > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45859	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Spreadsheet--stocking aquariums

I like my simple stocking guidelines that doesn't take a spreadsheet or a rocket scientist to figure out. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html Proposed MINIMUM recommendations for aquariums with multiple fish. These MINIMUMS do not work when only one LARGER fish is alone in the tank... in that case, use the "Tank Size Guideline" below: Small Fish - 1 Gallon per adult size inch for fish up to 3 inches as adults. (This is the only type of fish that fits in the 1" per gallon rule. Fish that will be small even as adults.) (Also see Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking List And Suggestions ) Medium Fish - 2 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 3" to 6" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 24" to 48" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank) Medium Large Fish (including most Fancy Goldfish) - 3 Gallons per adult size inch for fish 6" to 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 48" to 80" long (6X to 8X longer than longest expected adult sized fish in the tank). Large Fish (including Oscars, Common Pleco's, Comets and Common Goldfish) - 5 Gallons per adult size inch for fish over 10" as adults. Minimum Tank Size - 80" long and UP depending on expected adult size of fish using the basis of 8X longer than the longest expected adult sized fish in the tank. Koi should really be in a large pond since most aquariums are not large enough unless you have a HUGE tank. NOTE - When measuring your fish, use their expected adult size, not the current size. Do NOT include the tail. Measure from the base of the tail, where it connects to the body or use the expected adult size found on reputable profiles and care sheets (see separate article on Profiles/Care Sheets). We are more concerned with body mass for figuring out bioload in a tank. Some fish like Angelfish, Discus, round-bodied Goldfish, etc., should probably have the length and width / height added together to come up with a more accurate comparison to long-bodied fish. (END SNIP) I guess, when he was working on this page http://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/the-fishsheets-vs-other-common- stocking-rules-, he didn't see my stocking guideline page. ;-) I also do not like his chart at the bottom of that page, which is based on his spreadsheet, where he claims, according to his spreadsheet, that you can have 13 2" tropical fish in a 10G tank. I simply do not think this will work long term under normal circumstances. That's 26 inches of fish in a 10G tank which pretty much breaks ALL of the rules... even the very liberal 1" rule. Then he has 26 2" fish in a 20G High and the same number, 26 2" fish for a 20G Long tank and those two tanks should never be considered for equal stocking levels since a 20G High tank has over 20% less surface area for gas exchange. Then he has 38 2" fish in a 29G, which is the same footprint as a 20G Long tank and I can't imagine putting 38 2" fish in a 29G tank... that would look like a goldfish feeder tank at a pet store. Hopefully, he's a member of this group and can take some of this constructive criticism and make his spreadsheet much better.... or just copy/paste my guidelines onto his home page. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 6:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Spreadsheet--stocking aquariums Some of you more experienced people might want to take a look at this and express your opinions. This has been sitting in my browser for about 2 weeks, but I have not had a chance to fully evaluate it yet, nor compare this unfinished work to the previous version. However, from what I have seen, I am not really impressed. http://sites.google.com/site/moashowmanyfish/fishsheeta7-prototype http://tinyurl.com/y8crw6x \\Steve// If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45860	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

Wouldn't matter how high they got, I still get 75% off my fed ex shipping and I'd STILL only use fed ex, LOL. Amber Eric Roberts wrote: > > Very true Deb. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > > If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to > the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask > government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably > the > only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@ <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the > internet and other freight companies. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> > > Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned > by > > the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish > > supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS > > the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. > > So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't > > it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if > > their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. > > I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our > > USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45861	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Black and Gold

Anybody have any black and gold angels? Go Saints! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45862	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Black and Gold

Amen to that!!!! GEAUX SAINTS... THEY'RE LOOKING DAMNED GOOD SO FAR!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Melton Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Black and Gold Anybody have any black and gold angels? Go Saints!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45863	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

THIS is my favorite of the USPS Federal license plates ;) If an Ambulance, a Fire truck, and a USPS vehicle are all in a hurry to get somewhere, WHO has the right of way? LOL I guessed wrong my very first time getting asked that. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Ummmm.. I'm not sure where you got that info from. > > They are housed in Federal government owned buildings and do not pay > property taxes (that's a taxpayer subsidy), except for their limited > number > of locations that might be in retail shopping centers, their employees are > covered by Federal government subsidized insurance programs, their > vehicles > are owned by the Federal government and have Federal government license > plates on them and are exempt from State insurance laws and if they get in > an accident, you have to go through a Federal government claims procedure > where the Dept. Of Justice represents and defends the USPS and if you have > to sue them, you have to do it in Federal Court... and I could go on > and on. > They are WHOLLY OWNED by the taxpayers who establishes their annual budget > and finances their quarterly losses (off-budget as you'll see below). > They've lost money for 11 out of the last 12 quarters. > > Up until recent years, they were covered by their own Federal Government > Retirement program, just like Congress, and DID NOT pay Social Security, > although that has changed recently with the oncoming failure of Social > Security so the Feds did this to try and bolster Social Security with > additional payers. > > Snips from a USA Today article last year... > http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-03-25-postal-woes_N.htm > <http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-03-25-postal-woes_N.htm> > > "With the Postal Service facing budget shortfalls the subcommittee will > consider a number of options to restore financial stability and > examine ways > for the Postal Service to continue to operate without cutting services," > subcommittee chairman Stephen F. Lynch, D-Mass., said.... > > ...Blair also noted that Congress could consider appropriating money > to help > the post office. Currently the agency does not receive a taxpayer subsidy > for its operations, although Congress does subsidize overseas voting and > free mail for the blind. (LV adds: UMMMMM... that is taxpayer > subsidized, as > is the franking privileges for politicians who send mail at no charge > and as > stated above, the USPS gets low or no-cost rent, free lawyers, etc., all > paid for by the taxpayers.) > > William Young, president of the National Association of Letter Carriers, > stressed in his testimony that the agency is not seeking a taxpayer > bailout, > "but we are here to ask the Congress for help."... > > Lawmakers also raised questions regarding recent news reports which said > Potter is paid as much as $800,000 a year. > > That is not correct, Potter said. He said his salary, set by Congress, is > $263,575. He said the news reports were also counting his retirement fund, > the cost of his security detail and a $135,000 bonus which would be paid > over 10 years after he retires. > > The bonus is based on improved delivery rates and customer > satisfaction, he > said. Under the current financial conditions, Potter said, he would not be > eligible for a bonus this year. > > Carolyn Gallagher, chairwoman of the postal governing board, said postal > executives are paid only a fraction of what executives in similarly sized > businesses receive. > (END SNIPS) > > Two snips from a USPS Press Release from last year... > http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2009/pr09_047.htm > <http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2009/pr09_047.htm> > > An independent federal agency, the U.S. Postal Service is the only > delivery > service that reaches every address in the nation... (snipped from the > disclaimer at the bottom of the Press Release) > > WASHINGTON - The U.S. Postal Service ended its second quarter (Jan 1 - > March > 31) with a net loss of $1.9 billion, as the economic recession and > longer-term financial pressures, such as the diversion of letter mail to > electronic alternatives, continued to reduce mail volume and revenue. > Despite aggressive actions to reduce costs and grow revenue, the Postal > Service will likely face a cash shortfall of over $1.5 billion at the > end of > the fiscal year... > > ...The Postal Service continues to support H.R. 22, a House bill that > would > redirect a portion of the Postal Service's prior payments to the Postal > Service Retiree Health Benefits Trust Fund to pay its share of > contributions > for current retiree health benefits through 2016. If enacted, the > legislation would reduce the projected 2009 net loss by approximately $2 > billion and help enable the Postal Service to meet its 2009 financial > obligations. The bill was introduced by Rep. John McHugh (R-NY) and > co-sponsored by Rep. Danny Davis (D-IL). As of today, the bill has 297 > co-sponsors... > (END SNIPS) > > From The Heritage Foundation (archives from 1989) > http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg716.cfm > <http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg716.cfm> > > The bipartisan budget agreement between Congress and the Bush > Administration > includes a proposal to remove the United States Postal Service (USPS) from > the unified federal budget. By transferring the USPSs expected fiscal 1990 > loss of $1.8 billion to the nether world of off-budget accounting, the > government would create the illusion of reducing the deficit without > having > to cut spending or boost revenue. > > This is accounting gimmickry that simply tries to achieve deficit > reduction > targets by pretending that parts of the deficit do not really exist. It > violates the principle of the governments unified budget: to be a thorough > accounting of federal activities and outlays. Removal from the budget > of any > program for purposes of transitory convenience only misleads the > public and > undermines important principles of full disclosure. > > Failing the Test. There are, of course, legitimate reasons to consider > conferring-off-budget status on certain government-related enterprises. > Chief among them, according to the 1987 Presidents Commission on Budget > Concepts, is that the enterprise be completely privately owned. The > Federal > National Mortgage Association is an example of an off-budget privately > owned, government-sponsored enterprise. Obviously, the USPS fails this > test. > (END SNIP) > > They are a wholly owned Federal Government Agency built, paid for and > continually subsidized by the taxpayers. > > And, as far as your thoughts about FEDEX and UPS maybe charging higher > prices if the USPS wasn't around... that may or may not be true but since > they base their prices slightly above (in most cases) what the Post Office > charges, as they know folks will pay those higher prices, we'll never > know. > Unless there was a true free-market test to see if they would raise or > lower > their prices. Frankly, I'd rather the marketplace establish pricing for > everything instead of a guv'ment agency having any say-so in the matter... > like what has happened in the past (since Medicaid and Medicare) and will > further happen with the EXTREME GROWTH in guv'ment healthcare. > > All that said, I'm not advocating the abolishment of the USPS but they DO > NEED to change their business model to bring themselves into the > modern ages > if they want to compete with REAL private but publicly traded > companies like > UPS and FEDEX... or they should be allowed to go bankrupt and reorganize > themselves... first by re-negotiating their ridiculously high union costs, > contracts and benefits... but that won't happen before November 2010 > or 2012 > depending on those election cycles. > > Fish! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > > If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to > the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask > government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the > only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the > internet and other freight companies. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned > by > > the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish > > supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS > > the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. > > So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't > > it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if > > their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. > > I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our > > USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45864	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)

Or the day before ;) Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > Post Office has repeatedly told me that the tracking system is as good as > the people who do the scanning. It sounds like noone scanned your > packages. > > Scanning to prove delivery is often all done at once before the > postman even > leaves the post office in the morning. And of course it can't prove he > delivered it to the right address. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:49 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;) > > Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by > the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish > supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS > the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. > So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't > it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if > their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. > I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our > USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45865	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Black and Gold

WHOOOO HOOOOO... THE OLD FLEA FLICKER PLAY FOR A TOUCHDOWN!!!! GEAUX SAINTS!!!! SAINTS 28 - 14 CARDINALS We could have named the Saints the Angelfish today... since they love cardinal tetras. ;-) Or is that what you meant by the Black and Gold Angels in the first place??? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Melton Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Black and Gold Anybody have any black and gold angels? Go Saints! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45866	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Believe me, it's possible! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 4:48 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Since you're planning on putting a 100 gallon storage container in the > basement <g>, why don't you just turn part of your basement into a > fish room so > that everything is handy (and of course, you can add more tanks -- > LOL). > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45867	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: anyone want to tell me about Mystery Snails?

Mystery snails are a type of apple snail, they get to about an inch and a half in diameter when full grown. They do NOT eat plants, but they will eat dead plants. They eat very little algae, but will nibble on it if nothing else is available at the time, baby mystery snails will eat algae much quicker than the adults. They are also little pigs who will eat anything that tastes good, and they will stand on top of it so other snails/fish can't eat it, LOL. They are non-aggressive and will also not eat fish fry. They also come in many colors, I have purple, magenta, and ivory myself. Let me know if you have any other questions. Amber rosette55@... wrote: > > These snails look interesting. Are they plant eaters or more likely to > stick to consuming algae? Please remember No Links as I can't see them > with WEBTV. Thanks anyone! Happy Fishes, Samantha > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45868	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Are you buying really cheap heaters? What are your house temps and what are you trying to set the heater to? If there is a big temp difference you should be getting a higher wattage heater to compensate, a cheap little 25-50 watt heater might be good if your house temps are in the 70's, but you will need more power to keep a stable temp if your house temps are (for instance) in the 60's and you want the tank temp to be in the high 70's-80's, that's a lot of work for a little heater. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Sadly, my heater seems to have failed overnight in my ten g with the > ram eggs on rock. The temp was 72 this morning. I am using a new > heater now, but I'm not feeling good about the eggs - they don't look > right, they're too pale. > > Does anyone know why these heaters are so unreliable? I have seven > heaters all purchased in the past six months, and not one of them > works properly. I have to set some at 87 to get 76 and some just > don't work at all. I often have to use two, but even then, the > thermostats are so unreliable. I have tried marineland, tetra, and a > couple others. > > Is there a brand of heater that actually works? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45869	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I can't use my tap water at all - it is softened and the softened tap water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth tap. I use RO Right. Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want to keep boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener that's the issue and the water is not potable without the softener - I have described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is lethal and there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water for myself and John. So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use the RO Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my understanding that the RO Right should correct the RO. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should never use pure > R/O > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too hard, but > since you > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may be suitable or > not. > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard for the fish > you like to keep, > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, you should > still mix > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio of 80% (or > 75%) R/O > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium water at least > a minimal > amount of elements. > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like a vacuum for > any > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or indirectly > as in through > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out the calcium in > the > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. This ultra- > pure water > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in the fishes' > bodies > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, besides > oxygen and carbon > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. Water > completely > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of fry's > skeletal structure, > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even sometimes > deformities. > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45870	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

As a private company they won't make it against their competition with THAT tracking system and employees who "forget" to scan them on their way through their station, LOL. They need someone from fed ex to go in there and show them how to do it RIGHT, LOL. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > Do you have a reference for that? My reference is hubby, who is a > supervisor in the USPS. They used to get government money, but now > they are > very close to incorporating and becoming completely free of all gov. > connections. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:55 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > > Very false. See my reply from a few minutes ago. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Eric Roberts > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > > Very true Deb. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > > If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to the > USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask > government > permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably the only > reason > that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@ <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the > internet and other freight companies. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> > > Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned by > > the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish > > supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS > > the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. > > So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't > > it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if > > their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. > > I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our > > USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45871	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

They seem to be starting to wiggle!!! I'm a nervous wreck! About twenty percent of the eggs have molded, and I don't have any mold prevention stuff, but since the wigglers are starting, is it OK if I don't worry about this? Geesh, still trying to get the temps up with TWO heaters in there. Only to 78 so far. I don't have the pump for the brine shrimp hatchery but I have liquid feed for the first few days. Ray, you said it's three days or so before they need the brine, but I don't understand when to start counting the three days. I can go get the brine shrimp pump tomorrow but it's too late tonight. YIKES. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45872	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

From what I've read you need to get those moldy eggs out of there right away or they can kill the other "wrigglers". Ray can tell you what to use for the mold, I forget how to spell it, LOL. Congrats on the wigglers though :) Hopefully at least a few make it for you. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > They seem to be starting to wiggle!!! > > I'm a nervous wreck! > > About twenty percent of the eggs have molded, and I don't have any > mold prevention stuff, but since the wigglers are starting, is it OK > if I don't worry about this? > > Geesh, still trying to get the temps up with TWO heaters in there. > Only to 78 so far. > > I don't have the pump for the brine shrimp hatchery but I have liquid > feed for the first few days. > > Ray, you said it's three days or so before they need the brine, but I > don't understand when to start counting the three days. > > I can go get the brine shrimp pump tomorrow but it's too late tonight. > > YIKES. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45873	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Update on the new fish

Okay, so sadly to say I lost at least 2 of my sewellia lineolata's that I put in my 125 gallon tank, my 3 babies are still alive though, so I know it's not something that affects just those fish. The 4 botia kubotai are doing great though, which I'm glad about. I still have my 2 gastromyzon zebrinus and 1 gastromyzon scitilus alive in my 55 gallon upstairs, and I have managed to cool the house down by 5 degrees and not upset all the birds ;) LOL Going to try to get pics of the gastromyzon's today since they are coming out of hiding more now. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

LOL.. you're like an expectant father in the waiting room. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OMG Ram eggs hatching! They seem to be starting to wiggle!!! I'm a nervous wreck! About twenty percent of the eggs have molded, and I don't have any mold prevention stuff, but since the wigglers are starting, is it OK if I don't worry about this? Geesh, still trying to get the temps up with TWO heaters in there. Only to 78 so far. I don't have the pump for the brine shrimp hatchery but I have liquid feed for the first few days. Ray, you said it's three days or so before they need the brine, but I don't understand when to start counting the three days. I can go get the brine shrimp pump tomorrow but it's too late tonight. YIKES. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45875	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

Hey Bill have you seen those Electric Blue Rams out there? SPENDY but they sure are gorgeous, you can get 10 for 150.00, way to expensive for my blood, especially for a sensitive fish, LOL. Here's an example of them in case you haven't seen them, not the seller I am talking about but it was a good picture, LOL. http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23843 Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45876	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: more wiggling news

...the blue ram wigglers are starting to wiggle off the rock onto the glass floor - I assume this is good as it gets them away from the mold on the other non-fertile eggs, is this right? how soon after they start wiggling do they need to be fed, I don't think I get that part:) ...still very nervous... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45877	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Black and Gold

Lenny I wish I was as witty as you. I didn't think about it when I was posting but the angels I've had would eat anything they could fit in their mouth. And the Saints have made mincemeat out of this team. 45-14 Angelfood!!! Deb On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > > > WHOOOO HOOOOO... THE OLD FLEA FLICKER PLAY FOR A TOUCHDOWN!!!! > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! > > SAINTS 28 - 14 CARDINALS > > We could have named the Saints the Angelfish today... since they love > cardinal tetras. ;-) Or is that what you meant by the Black and Gold Angels > in the first place??? LOL > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Debra Melton > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Black and Gold > > Anybody have any black and gold angels? Go Saints! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45878	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold

Now here's a man that thinks!   Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 4:48 PM Since you're planning on putting a 100 gallon storage container in the basement <g>,  why don't you just turn part of your basement into a fish room so that everything is handy (and of course, you can add more tanks -- LOL).  Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45879	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Hi Lainey,   Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to help.  I think you understand that by now.   BUT, I think what Ray maybe trying to get to is this.   Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets to the softening system, RO or anything else?  Just right out the pipe.  If you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test sample.  I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they were the figures that you posted before.  Make sure your testing kit is recent.  If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three good things.  First, again as Ray told you, its better for the fish.  Second, it will be way less work for you.  Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that RO by using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY are you?   Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, don't worry about it.  As you will notice, this is a very friendly and open group.  They post football scores, fish food recipes and a host of other things..  But most here know "what water problems can be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else who has.  Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something that has not even been mentioned yet.   Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > I can't use my tap water at all - it > is softened and the softened tap  > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth > tap. I  > use RO Right. > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want > to keep  > boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > that's  > the issue and the water is not potable without the softener > - I  have  > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is > lethal and  > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water > for myself  > and John. > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > the RO  > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > understanding that  > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... > wrote: > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > never use pure  > > R/O > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > hard, but  > > since you > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > be suitable or  > > not. > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > for the fish  > > you like to keep, > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > you should  > > still mix > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > of 80% (or  > > 75%) R/O > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > water at least  > > a minimal > > amount of elements. > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > a vacuum for  > > any > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > indirectly  > > as in through > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > the calcium in  > > the > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > This ultra- > > pure water > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > the fishes'  > > bodies > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > besides  > > oxygen and carbon > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > Water  > > completely > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > fry's  > > skeletal structure, > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > sometimes  > > deformities. > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45880	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Just for Bill

Yes, thanks Amber I've seen them.  Beautiful yes, bred true, I doubt it. They are created and like other "generic altered" types getting them to bred true to color or bred at all---------its a crap shoot at best.   I'll stay with the German Blues------------------at least till I get it right.  Recently had a discussion on my old all time favorites Discus but my pockets are not deep enough for those either!   Thanks for the thought,   Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Just for Bill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 6:16 PM > Hey Bill have you seen those Electric > Blue Rams out there? SPENDY but > they sure are gorgeous, you can get 10 for 150.00, way to > expensive for > my blood, especially for a sensitive fish, LOL. > Here's an example of them in case you haven't seen them, > not the seller > I am talking about but it was a good picture, LOL. > http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23843 > > Amber > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45881	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Bill - I do have the test results on my well water before my filters and softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I don't think the test results could possibly convey this in all its glory. I live in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the water while pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. The manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The sulfur stench would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with the fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so hard or whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes absolutely disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - it would be undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's radioactive! Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) Now are you on board with the RO plan? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to > help. I think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray > maybe trying to get to is this. > > Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets to > the softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the > pipe. If you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a > test sample. I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not > and if they were the figures that you posted before. Make sure > your testing kit is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you > will do three good things. First, again as Ray told you, its > better for the fish. Second, it will be way less work for you. > Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that RO by > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY > are you? > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly > and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes and a > host of other things.. But most here know "what water problems can > be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else who > has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something that > has not even been mentioned yet. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > > I can't use my tap water at all - it > > is softened and the softened tap > > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth > > tap. I > > use RO Right. > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want > > to keep > > boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > > that's > > the issue and the water is not potable without the softener > > - I have > > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is > > lethal and > > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water > > for myself > > and John. > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > > the RO > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > > understanding that > > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > > never use pure > > > R/O > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > > hard, but > > > since you > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > > be suitable or > > > not. > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > > for the fish > > > you like to keep, > > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > > you should > > > still mix > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > > of 80% (or > > > 75%) R/O > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > > water at least > > > a minimal > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > > a vacuum for > > > any > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > > indirectly > > > as in through > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > > the calcium in > > > the > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > > This ultra- > > > pure water > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > > the fishes' > > > bodies > > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > > besides > > > oxygen and carbon > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > > Water > > > completely > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > > fry's > > > skeletal structure, > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > > sometimes > > > deformities. > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45882	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Wow, I'd be thinking about digging a new well if my water was like that, LOL. Is that not possible? I know it's not cheap. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Bill - > > I do have the test results on my well water before my filters and > softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I don't think > the test results could possibly convey this in all its glory. I live > in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the water while > pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. The > manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The sulfur stench > would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with the > fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so hard or > whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes absolutely > disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - it would be > undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's radioactive! > Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) > > Now are you on board with the RO plan? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > >> Hi Lainey, >> >> Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to >> help. I think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray >> maybe trying to get to is this. >> >> Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets to >> the softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the >> pipe. If you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a >> test sample. I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not >> and if they were the figures that you posted before. Make sure >> your testing kit is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you >> will do three good things. First, again as Ray told you, its >> better for the fish. Second, it will be way less work for you. >> Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that RO by >> using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY >> are you? >> >> Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, >> don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly >> and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes and a >> host of other things.. But most here know "what water problems can >> be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else who >> has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first >> time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something that >> has not even been mentioned yet. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: >> >> >>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM >>> I can't use my tap water at all - it >>> is softened and the softened tap >>> water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth >>> tap. I >>> use RO Right. >>> >>> Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want >>> to keep >>> boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener >>> that's >>> the issue and the water is not potable without the softener >>> - I have >>> described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. >>> >>> Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is >>> lethal and >>> there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water >>> for myself >>> and John. >>> >>> So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use >>> the RO >>> Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my >>> understanding that >>> the RO Right should correct the RO. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should >>>> >>> never use pure >>> >>>> R/O >>>> water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too >>>> >>> hard, but >>> >>>> since you >>>> never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may >>>> >>> be suitable or >>> >>>> not. >>>> Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard >>>> >>> for the fish >>> >>>> you like to keep, >>>> and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, >>>> >>> you should >>> >>>> still mix >>>> your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio >>>> >>> of 80% (or >>> >>>> 75%) R/O >>>> water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium >>>> >>> water at least >>> >>>> a minimal >>>> amount of elements. >>>> >>>> There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like >>>> >>> a vacuum for >>> >>>> any >>>> minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or >>>> >>> indirectly >>> >>>> as in through >>>> an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out >>>> >>> the calcium in >>> >>>> the >>>> bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. >>>> >>> This ultra- >>> >>>> pure water >>>> will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in >>>> >>> the fishes' >>> >>>> bodies >>>> through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, >>>> >>> besides >>> >>>> oxygen and carbon >>>> dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. >>>> >>> Water >>> >>>> completely >>>> devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of >>>> >>> fry's >>> >>>> skeletal structure, >>>> resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even >>>> >>> sometimes >>> >>>> deformities. >>>> Ray</HTML> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when >>> replying, Thank You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is >>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of >>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new >>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>> , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by >>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a >>> time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to >>> read messages on the group and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45883	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I know, but there were two wells dug already on my land, one was not a good well, and apparently, getting water at all is a long shot. I'm extremely lucky to have a well anywhere on the property because the whole area around the house is bedrock. They had to dynamite for the foundation and even the propane tank! I could easily have to dig in thirty places to find another well... Instead, I work with it via sediment filters, sand filters, softeners, radon aerators and then after all that, I buy drinking water! But you'll believe me when I tell you that even after all the filters, my tap water still kills inverts in 45 minutes and plants in one week. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:40 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Wow, I'd be thinking about digging a new well if my water was like > that, > LOL. > Is that not possible? I know it's not cheap. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Bill - > > > > I do have the test results on my well water before my filters and > > softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I don't think > > the test results could possibly convey this in all its glory. I live > > in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the water while > > pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. The > > manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The sulfur stench > > would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with the > > fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so hard or > > whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes absolutely > > disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - it > would be > > undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's radioactive! > > Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) > > > > Now are you on board with the RO plan? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Lainey, > >> > >> Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to > >> help. I think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray > >> maybe trying to get to is this. > >> > >> Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets to > >> the softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the > >> pipe. If you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a > >> test sample. I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not > >> and if they were the figures that you posted before. Make sure > >> your testing kit is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you > >> will do three good things. First, again as Ray told you, its > >> better for the fish. Second, it will be way less work for you. > >> Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that RO by > >> using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY > >> are you? > >> > >> Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > >> don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly > >> and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes and a > >> host of other things.. But most here know "what water problems can > >> be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else who > >> has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first > >> time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something that > >> has not even been mentioned yet. > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > >> > >> > >>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>> Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > >>> I can't use my tap water at all - it > >>> is softened and the softened tap > >>> water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth > >>> tap. I > >>> use RO Right. > >>> > >>> Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want > >>> to keep > >>> boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > >>> that's > >>> the issue and the water is not potable without the softener > >>> - I have > >>> described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > >>> > >>> Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is > >>> lethal and > >>> there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water > >>> for myself > >>> and John. > >>> > >>> So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > >>> the RO > >>> Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > >>> understanding that > >>> the RO Right should correct the RO. > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > >>>> > >>> never use pure > >>> > >>>> R/O > >>>> water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > >>>> > >>> hard, but > >>> > >>>> since you > >>>> never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > >>>> > >>> be suitable or > >>> > >>>> not. > >>>> Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > >>>> > >>> for the fish > >>> > >>>> you like to keep, > >>>> and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > >>>> > >>> you should > >>> > >>>> still mix > >>>> your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > >>>> > >>> of 80% (or > >>> > >>>> 75%) R/O > >>>> water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > >>>> > >>> water at least > >>> > >>>> a minimal > >>>> amount of elements. > >>>> > >>>> There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > >>>> > >>> a vacuum for > >>> > >>>> any > >>>> minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > >>>> > >>> indirectly > >>> > >>>> as in through > >>>> an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > >>>> > >>> the calcium in > >>> > >>>> the > >>>> bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > >>>> > >>> This ultra- > >>> > >>>> pure water > >>>> will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > >>>> > >>> the fishes' > >>> > >>>> bodies > >>>> through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > >>>> > >>> besides > >>> > >>>> oxygen and carbon > >>>> dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > >>>> > >>> Water > >>> > >>>> completely > >>>> devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > >>>> > >>> fry's > >>> > >>>> skeletal structure, > >>>> resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > >>>> > >>> sometimes > >>> > >>>> deformities. > >>>> Ray</HTML> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > >>> replying, Thank You. > >>> ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > >>> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > >>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > >>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > >>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >>> <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > >>> , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > >>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >>> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > >>> time in a single email > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > >>> read messages on the group and post replies. > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45884	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Very glad I don't have to deal with that kind of well water. Sounds very frustrating. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I know, but there were two wells dug already on my land, one was not > a good well, and apparently, getting water at all is a long shot. I'm > extremely lucky to have a well anywhere on the property because the > whole area around the house is bedrock. They had to dynamite for the > foundation and even the propane tank! I could easily have to dig in > thirty places to find another well... > > Instead, I work with it via sediment filters, sand filters, > softeners, radon aerators and then after all that, I buy drinking water! > > But you'll believe me when I tell you that even after all the > filters, my tap water still kills inverts in 45 minutes and plants in > one week. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:40 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Wow, I'd be thinking about digging a new well if my water was like >> that, >> LOL. >> Is that not possible? I know it's not cheap. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Bill - >>> >>> I do have the test results on my well water before my filters and >>> softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I don't think >>> the test results could possibly convey this in all its glory. I live >>> in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the water while >>> pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. The >>> manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The sulfur stench >>> would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with the >>> fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so hard or >>> whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes absolutely >>> disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - it >>> >> would be >> >>> undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's radioactive! >>> Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) >>> >>> Now are you on board with the RO plan? >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi Lainey, >>>> >>>> Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to >>>> help. I think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray >>>> maybe trying to get to is this. >>>> >>>> Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets to >>>> the softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the >>>> pipe. If you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a >>>> test sample. I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not >>>> and if they were the figures that you posted before. Make sure >>>> your testing kit is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you >>>> will do three good things. First, again as Ray told you, its >>>> better for the fish. Second, it will be way less work for you. >>>> Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that RO by >>>> using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY >>>> are you? >>>> >>>> Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, >>>> don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly >>>> and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes and a >>>> host of other things.. But most here know "what water problems can >>>> be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else who >>>> has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first >>>> time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something that >>>> has not even been mentioned yet. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >>>> >> wrote: >> >>>> >>>>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM >>>>> I can't use my tap water at all - it >>>>> is softened and the softened tap >>>>> water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth >>>>> tap. I >>>>> use RO Right. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want >>>>> to keep >>>>> boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener >>>>> that's >>>>> the issue and the water is not potable without the softener >>>>> - I have >>>>> described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. >>>>> >>>>> Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is >>>>> lethal and >>>>> there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water >>>>> for myself >>>>> and John. >>>>> >>>>> So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use >>>>> the RO >>>>> Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my >>>>> understanding that >>>>> the RO Right should correct the RO. >>>>> >>>>> Lainey >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> never use pure >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> R/O >>>>>> water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> hard, but >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> since you >>>>>> never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> be suitable or >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> not. >>>>>> Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> for the fish >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> you like to keep, >>>>>> and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> you should >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> still mix >>>>>> your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> of 80% (or >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> 75%) R/O >>>>>> water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> water at least >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> a minimal >>>>>> amount of elements. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> a vacuum for >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> any >>>>>> minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> indirectly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> as in through >>>>>> an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> the calcium in >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> This ultra- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> pure water >>>>>> will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> the fishes' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> bodies >>>>>> through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> besides >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> oxygen and carbon >>>>>> dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Water >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> completely >>>>>> devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> fry's >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> skeletal structure, >>>>>> resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> sometimes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> deformities. >>>>>> Ray</HTML> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when >>>>> replying, Thank You. >>>>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is >>>>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of >>>>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new >>>>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>>>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>>>> , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>>>> >>>>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>>>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by >>>>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>>>> >>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >>>>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a >>>>> time in a single email >>>>> >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >>>>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to >>>>> read messages on the group and post replies. >>>>> >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >>>>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45885	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber

I mostly use UPS with the exception of some of the stuff I sell on ebay as it is just cheaper to go USPS. Eric -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber Wouldn't matter how high they got, I still get 75% off my fed ex shipping and I'd STILL only use fed ex, LOL. Amber Eric Roberts wrote: > > Very true Deb. > > Eric > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rant about USPS shipping ;)/0/Amber > > If it helps you feel better, not one penny of taxpayer money goes to > the USPS. They are the only self sustaining business that has to ask > government permission to raise prices. Right now, the USPS is probably > the > only reason that UPS, FedEx and DHL prices aren't sky high. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@ <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > yahoo.com> > > For what it's being used for now it could be completely eliminated by the > internet and other freight companies. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> > > Okay so you'd think the most widely used shipping company also owned > by > > the Government would have a MUCH better tracking system. I had a fish > > supply order shipped earlier this week and on the tracking site for USPS > > the system doesn't even say either of my 2 my packages even exist, LOL. > > So if it was shipped and I was given the tracking numbers WHY wouldn't > > it be in their tracking system? LOL. Fed ex would lose so much money if > > their tracking system was as crappy as the USPS tracking system is. > > I don't know about you guys down south but in the last 20+ years our > > USPS has gotten incredibly worse in their service and reliability. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45886	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Yes I was wondering what country you are from as well. US water is so highly regulated. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey Hi Lainey, Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to help. I think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray maybe trying to get to is this. Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets to the softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the pipe. If you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test sample. I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they were the figures that you posted before. Make sure your testing kit is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three good things. First, again as Ray told you, its better for the fish. Second, it will be way less work for you. Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that RO by using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY are you? Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes and a host of other things.. But most here know "what water problems can be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else who has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something that has not even been mentioned yet. Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > I can't use my tap water at all - it > is softened and the softened tap > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth > tap. I > use RO Right. > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want > to keep > boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > that's > the issue and the water is not potable without the softener > - I have > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is > lethal and > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water > for myself > and John. > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > the RO > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > understanding that > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > wrote: > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > never use pure > > R/O > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > hard, but > > since you > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > be suitable or > > not. > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > for the fish > > you like to keep, > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > you should > > still mix > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > of 80% (or > > 75%) R/O > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > water at least > > a minimal > > amount of elements. > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > a vacuum for > > any > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > indirectly > > as in through > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > the calcium in > > the > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > This ultra- > > pure water > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > the fishes' > > bodies > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > besides > > oxygen and carbon > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > Water > > completely > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > fry's > > skeletal structure, > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > sometimes > > deformities. > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45887	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

On board with the RO plan?  I am!  Moreover I did a bit of reading up on that RO stuff that your adding as conditioner for trace minerals and stuff.  The second issue is this; it or you must be doing something right or those fish would not be spawning in the first place!   I can't exactly speak for Ray but I surely would be considered old school in that I try to approach the hobby and try to achieve results in the less costly and most common sense manner possible.  I've found that things get complicated enough by themselves without adding to it. There are always exceptions to every rule as you know and I think your one of them.  But again, like the youngsters say, "Hey, you go with what works"!  Its obviously working for you so stay with what your doing.   Then there is the personal issue.  You can do what you will to me but never, ever mess with my coffee!  Lenny from group here will tell you that is a very serious matter with me!  <G>   There is a serious question that is nagging at me though, and if you can share the answer I'd appreciate it.  If the water is not potable as you say then how could anyone sell you this house in the first place OR have you lived there this long and then the water went South?  At this point in time I would be more concerned about the air you're breathing and things around you.  You know what they say, "Sometimes its what you can't see".  Reading all that you described, I also wonder about those beautiful birds you keep.   Lastly----------------------how are those fry and water temps coming along?   Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 8:33 PM > Bill - > > I do have the test results on my well water before my > filters and  > softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I > don't think  > the test results could possibly convey this in all its > glory. I live  > in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the > water while  > pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. > The  > manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The > sulfur stench  > would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with > the  > fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so > hard or  > whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes > absolutely  > disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - > it would be  > undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's > radioactive!  > Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) > > Now are you on board with the RO plan? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only > trying to  > > help.  I think you understand that by > now.   BUT, I think what Ray  > > maybe trying to get to is this. > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water > BEFORE it gets to  > > the softening system, RO or anything else?  Just > right out the  > > pipe.  If you try this, let the water run a bit > BEFORE you take a  > > test sample.  I don't remember if you tested in > this manner or not  > > and if they were the figures that you posted > before.  Make sure  > > your testing kit is recent.  If you can "mix" as > Ray mentioned you  > > will do three good things.  First, again as Ray > told you, its  > > better for the fish.  Second, it will be way less > work for you.    > > Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging > that RO by  > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in > Niagra Falls, NY  > > are you? > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here > on Group,  > > don't worry about it.  As you will notice, this > is a very friendly  > > and open group.  They post football scores, fish > food recipes and a  > > host of other things..  But most here know "what > water problems can  > > be" either they have been there themselves or know > someone else who  > > has.  Also, others many be tuning-into your > problem for the first  > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest > something that  > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > > > I can't use my tap water at all - it > > > is softened and the softened tap > > > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even > use a tenth > > > tap. I > > > use RO Right. > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but > don't want > > > to keep > > > boring people by doing this. But really, it is > the softener > > > that's > > > the issue and the water is not potable without > the softener > > > - I  have > > > described this many times, don't want to bore > everyone. > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap > water is > > > lethal and > > > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy > drinking water > > > for myself > > > and John. > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO > and I use > > > the RO > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > > > understanding that > > > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, > you should > > > never use pure > > > > R/O > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water > may be too > > > hard, but > > > > since you > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea > if it may > > > be suitable or > > > > not. > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way > too hard > > > for the fish > > > > you like to keep, > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to > R/O water, > > > you should > > > > still mix > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if > in a ratio > > > of 80% (or > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the > aquarium > > > water at least > > > > a minimal > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O > water (it like > > > a vacuum for > > > > any > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether > directly or > > > indirectly > > > > as in through > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can > leach out > > > the calcium in > > > > the > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory > system. > > > This ultra- > > > > pure water > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting > minerals in > > > the fishes' > > > > bodies > > > > through the gills where many other chemical > exchanges, > > > besides > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over > the gills. > > > Water > > > > completely > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper > growth of > > > fry's > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate > and even > > > sometimes > > > > deformities. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45888	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

On board with the RO plan?  I am!  Moreover I did a bit of reading up on that RO stuff that your adding as conditioner for trace minerals and stuff.  The second issue is this; it or you must be doing something right or those fish would not be spawning in the first place!   I can't exactly speak for Ray but I surely would be considered old school in that I try to approach the hobby and try to achieve results in the less costly and most common sense manner possible.  I've found that things get complicated enough by themselves without adding to it. There are always exceptions to every rule as you know and I think your one of them.  But again, like the youngsters say, "Hey, you go with what works"!  Its obviously working for you so stay with what your doing.   Then there is the personal issue.  You can do what you will to me but never, ever mess with my coffee!  Lenny from group here will tell you that is a very serious matter with me!  <G>   There is a serious question that is nagging at me though, and if you can share the answer I'd appreciate it.  If the water is not potable as you say then how could anyone sell you this house in the first place OR have you lived there this long and then the water went South?  At this point in time I would be more concerned about the air you're breathing and things around you.  You know what they say, "Sometimes its what you can't see".  Reading all that you described, I also wonder about those beautiful birds you keep.   Lastly----------------------how are those fry and water temps coming along?   Bill --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 8:33 PM > Bill - > > I do have the test results on my well water before my > filters and  > softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I > don't think  > the test results could possibly convey this in all its > glory. I live  > in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the > water while  > pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. > The  > manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The > sulfur stench  > would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with > the  > fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so > hard or  > whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes > absolutely  > disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - > it would be  > undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's > radioactive!  > Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) > > Now are you on board with the RO plan? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only > trying to  > > help.  I think you understand that by > now.   BUT, I think what Ray  > > maybe trying to get to is this. > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water > BEFORE it gets to  > > the softening system, RO or anything else?  Just > right out the  > > pipe.  If you try this, let the water run a bit > BEFORE you take a  > > test sample.  I don't remember if you tested in > this manner or not  > > and if they were the figures that you posted > before.  Make sure  > > your testing kit is recent.  If you can "mix" as > Ray mentioned you  > > will do three good things.  First, again as Ray > told you, its  > > better for the fish.  Second, it will be way less > work for you.    > > Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging > that RO by  > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in > Niagra Falls, NY  > > are you? > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here > on Group,  > > don't worry about it.  As you will notice, this > is a very friendly  > > and open group.  They post football scores, fish > food recipes and a  > > host of other things..  But most here know "what > water problems can  > > be" either they have been there themselves or know > someone else who  > > has.  Also, others many be tuning-into your > problem for the first  > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest > something that  > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > > > I can't use my tap water at all - it > > > is softened and the softened tap > > > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even > use a tenth > > > tap. I > > > use RO Right. > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but > don't want > > > to keep > > > boring people by doing this. But really, it is > the softener > > > that's > > > the issue and the water is not potable without > the softener > > > - I  have > > > described this many times, don't want to bore > everyone. > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap > water is > > > lethal and > > > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy > drinking water > > > for myself > > > and John. > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO > and I use > > > the RO > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > > > understanding that > > > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, > you should > > > never use pure > > > > R/O > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water > may be too > > > hard, but > > > > since you > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea > if it may > > > be suitable or > > > > not. > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way > too hard > > > for the fish > > > > you like to keep, > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to > R/O water, > > > you should > > > > still mix > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if > in a ratio > > > of 80% (or > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the > aquarium > > > water at least > > > > a minimal > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O > water (it like > > > a vacuum for > > > > any > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether > directly or > > > indirectly > > > > as in through > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can > leach out > > > the calcium in > > > > the > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory > system. > > > This ultra- > > > > pure water > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting > minerals in > > > the fishes' > > > > bodies > > > > through the gills where many other chemical > exchanges, > > > besides > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over > the gills. > > > Water > > > > completely > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper > growth of > > > fry's > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate > and even > > > sometimes > > > > deformities. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45889	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

western MA USA Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:24 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > Yes I was wondering what country you are from as well. US water is so > highly regulated. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > Hi Lainey, > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to help. I > think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray maybe > trying to > get to is this. > > Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets to the > softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the pipe. If > you try > this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test sample. I don't > remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they were the > figures > that you posted before. Make sure your testing kit is recent. If > you can > "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three good things. First, again > as Ray > told you, its better for the fish. Second, it will be way less work > for > you. Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that RO by > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY > are you? > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > don't worry > about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly and open > group. They > post football scores, fish food recipes and a host of other > things.. But > most here know "what water problems can be" either they have been > there > themselves or know someone else who has. Also, others many be > tuning-into > your problem for the first time and maybe able to offer special > help or > suggest something that has not even been mentioned yet. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > > I can't use my tap water at all - it > > is softened and the softened tap > > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth > > tap. I > > use RO Right. > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want > > to keep > > boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > > that's > > the issue and the water is not potable without the softener > > - I have > > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is > > lethal and > > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water > > for myself > > and John. > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > > the RO > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > > understanding that > > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@ > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > > never use pure > > > R/O > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > > hard, but > > > since you > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > > be suitable or > > > not. > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > > for the fish > > > you like to keep, > > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > > you should > > > still mix > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > > of 80% (or > > > 75%) R/O > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > > water at least > > > a minimal > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > > a vacuum for > > > any > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > > indirectly > > > as in through > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > > the calcium in > > > the > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > > This ultra- > > > pure water > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > > the fishes' > > > bodies > > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > > besides > > > oxygen and carbon > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > > Water > > > completely > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > > fry's > > > skeletal structure, > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > > sometimes > > > deformities. > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45890	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I bought the property and found things out the hard way trying to build a house. But to be honest, most of the wells out here where I live are similar. It's sort of a given that all hell breaks loose when you try to drink the water. Everyone I know around here has filters and so forth on their well water. I have had every test known to science run on my water and the air in my house so that nothing bad would happen to me, John or the birds, so I think I know what's going on. I have a whole house radon fan and do test the air to make sure we're not gassing ourselves. OK, wigglers are wriggling all over the rock and floor! Very nervewracking. I took my two best heaters out of my other tanks and put both of them in the ten g. The temp is up to 79. Now I'm rigging up some way to hatch the brine, I think I can do it for tomorrow. I am hoping Ray can tell me if they need to eat now or tomorrow - I can't tell if they have hatched or what the heck. They look like tadpoles. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:29 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > On board with the RO plan? I am! Moreover I did a bit of reading > up on that RO stuff that your adding as conditioner for trace > minerals and stuff. The second issue is this; it or you must be > doing something right or those fish would not be spawning in the > first place! > > I can't exactly speak for Ray but I surely would be considered old > school in that I try to approach the hobby and try to achieve > results in the less costly and most common sense manner possible. > I've found that things get complicated enough by themselves without > adding to it. There are always exceptions to every rule as you know > and I think your one of them. But again, like the youngsters say, > "Hey, you go with what works"! Its obviously working for you so > stay with what your doing. > > Then there is the personal issue. You can do what you will to me > but never, ever mess with my coffee! Lenny from group here will > tell you that is a very serious matter with me! <G> > > There is a serious question that is nagging at me though, and if > you can share the answer I'd appreciate it. If the water is not > potable as you say then how could anyone sell you this house in the > first place OR have you lived there this long and then the water > went South? At this point in time I would be more concerned about > the air you're breathing and things around you. You know what they > say, "Sometimes its what you can't see". Reading all that you > described, I also wonder about those beautiful birds you keep. > > Lastly----------------------how are those fry and water temps > coming along? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 8:33 PM > > Bill - > > > > I do have the test results on my well water before my > > filters and > > softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I > > don't think > > the test results could possibly convey this in all its > > glory. I live > > in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the > > water while > > pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. > > The > > manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The > > sulfur stench > > would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with > > the > > fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so > > hard or > > whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes > > absolutely > > disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - > > it would be > > undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's > > radioactive! > > Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) > > > > Now are you on board with the RO plan? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only > > trying to > > > help. I think you understand that by > > now. BUT, I think what Ray > > > maybe trying to get to is this. > > > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water > > BEFORE it gets to > > > the softening system, RO or anything else? Just > > right out the > > > pipe. If you try this, let the water run a bit > > BEFORE you take a > > > test sample. I don't remember if you tested in > > this manner or not > > > and if they were the figures that you posted > > before. Make sure > > > your testing kit is recent. If you can "mix" as > > Ray mentioned you > > > will do three good things. First, again as Ray > > told you, its > > > better for the fish. Second, it will be way less > > work for you. > > > Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging > > that RO by > > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in > > Niagra Falls, NY > > > are you? > > > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here > > on Group, > > > don't worry about it. As you will notice, this > > is a very friendly > > > and open group. They post football scores, fish > > food recipes and a > > > host of other things.. But most here know "what > > water problems can > > > be" either they have been there themselves or know > > someone else who > > > has. Also, others many be tuning-into your > > problem for the first > > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest > > something that > > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > > > > I can't use my tap water at all - it > > > > is softened and the softened tap > > > > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even > > use a tenth > > > > tap. I > > > > use RO Right. > > > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but > > don't want > > > > to keep > > > > boring people by doing this. But really, it is > > the softener > > > > that's > > > > the issue and the water is not potable without > > the softener > > > > - I have > > > > described this many times, don't want to bore > > everyone. > > > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap > > water is > > > > lethal and > > > > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy > > drinking water > > > > for myself > > > > and John. > > > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO > > and I use > > > > the RO > > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > > > > understanding that > > > > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, > > you should > > > > never use pure > > > > > R/O > > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water > > may be too > > > > hard, but > > > > > since you > > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea > > if it may > > > > be suitable or > > > > > not. > > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way > > too hard > > > > for the fish > > > > > you like to keep, > > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to > > R/O water, > > > > you should > > > > > still mix > > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if > > in a ratio > > > > of 80% (or > > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the > > aquarium > > > > water at least > > > > > a minimal > > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O > > water (it like > > > > a vacuum for > > > > > any > > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether > > directly or > > > > indirectly > > > > > as in through > > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can > > leach out > > > > the calcium in > > > > > the > > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory > > system. > > > > This ultra- > > > > > pure water > > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting > > minerals in > > > > the fishes' > > > > > bodies > > > > > through the gills where many other chemical > > exchanges, > > > > besides > > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over > > the gills. > > > > Water > > > > > completely > > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper > > growth of > > > > fry's > > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate > > and even > > > > sometimes > > > > > deformities. > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45891	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

What does your water authority say? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey western MA USA Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:24 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > Yes I was wondering what country you are from as well. US water is so > highly regulated. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > Hi Lainey, > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to help. I > think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray maybe > trying to > get to is this. > > Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets to the > softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the pipe. If > you try > this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test sample. I don't > remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they were the > figures > that you posted before. Make sure your testing kit is recent. If > you can > "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three good things. First, again > as Ray > told you, its better for the fish. Second, it will be way less work > for > you. Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that RO by > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY > are you? > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > don't worry > about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly and open > group. They > post football scores, fish food recipes and a host of other > things.. But > most here know "what water problems can be" either they have been > there > themselves or know someone else who has. Also, others many be > tuning-into > your problem for the first time and maybe able to offer special > help or > suggest something that has not even been mentioned yet. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > > I can't use my tap water at all - it > > is softened and the softened tap > > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth > > tap. I > > use RO Right. > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want > > to keep > > boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > > that's > > the issue and the water is not potable without the softener > > - I have > > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is > > lethal and > > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water > > for myself > > and John. > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > > the RO > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > > understanding that > > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@ > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > > never use pure > > > R/O > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > > hard, but > > > since you > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > > be suitable or > > > not. > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > > for the fish > > > you like to keep, > > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > > you should > > > still mix > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > > of 80% (or > > > 75%) R/O > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > > water at least > > > a minimal > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > > a vacuum for > > > any > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > > indirectly > > > as in through > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > > the calcium in > > > the > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > > This ultra- > > > pure water > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > > the fishes' > > > bodies > > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > > besides > > > oxygen and carbon > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > > Water > > > completely > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > > fry's > > > skeletal structure, > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > > sometimes > > > deformities. > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45892	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I know nothing about rams, but since it's late and you have no replies... I think as long as they have the big bellies and are not free swimming, they are living on the egg sac and they don't have to eat. That's true for African rift lake cichlids, I'm sure it's true for at least some other fish as well. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I bought the property and found things out the hard way trying to build a house. But to be honest, most of the wells out here where I live are similar. It's sort of a given that all hell breaks loose when you try to drink the water. Everyone I know around here has filters and so forth on their well water. I have had every test known to science run on my water and the air in my house so that nothing bad would happen to me, John or the birds, so I think I know what's going on. I have a whole house radon fan and do test the air to make sure we're not gassing ourselves. OK, wigglers are wriggling all over the rock and floor! Very nervewracking. I took my two best heaters out of my other tanks and put both of them in the ten g. The temp is up to 79. Now I'm rigging up some way to hatch the brine, I think I can do it for tomorrow. I am hoping Ray can tell me if they need to eat now or tomorrow - I can't tell if they have hatched or what the heck. They look like tadpoles. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:29 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > On board with the RO plan? I am! Moreover I did a bit of reading > up on that RO stuff that your adding as conditioner for trace > minerals and stuff. The second issue is this; it or you must be > doing something right or those fish would not be spawning in the > first place! > > I can't exactly speak for Ray but I surely would be considered old > school in that I try to approach the hobby and try to achieve > results in the less costly and most common sense manner possible. > I've found that things get complicated enough by themselves without > adding to it. There are always exceptions to every rule as you know > and I think your one of them. But again, like the youngsters say, > "Hey, you go with what works"! Its obviously working for you so > stay with what your doing. > > Then there is the personal issue. You can do what you will to me > but never, ever mess with my coffee! Lenny from group here will > tell you that is a very serious matter with me! <G> > > There is a serious question that is nagging at me though, and if > you can share the answer I'd appreciate it. If the water is not > potable as you say then how could anyone sell you this house in the > first place OR have you lived there this long and then the water > went South? At this point in time I would be more concerned about > the air you're breathing and things around you. You know what they > say, "Sometimes its what you can't see". Reading all that you > described, I also wonder about those beautiful birds you keep. > > Lastly----------------------how are those fry and water temps > coming along? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 8:33 PM > > Bill - > > > > I do have the test results on my well water before my > > filters and > > softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I > > don't think > > the test results could possibly convey this in all its > > glory. I live > > in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the > > water while > > pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. > > The > > manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The > > sulfur stench > > would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with > > the > > fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so > > hard or > > whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes > > absolutely > > disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - > > it would be > > undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's > > radioactive! > > Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) > > > > Now are you on board with the RO plan? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only > > trying to > > > help. I think you understand that by > > now. BUT, I think what Ray > > > maybe trying to get to is this. > > > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water > > BEFORE it gets to > > > the softening system, RO or anything else? Just > > right out the > > > pipe. If you try this, let the water run a bit > > BEFORE you take a > > > test sample. I don't remember if you tested in > > this manner or not > > > and if they were the figures that you posted > > before. Make sure > > > your testing kit is recent. If you can "mix" as > > Ray mentioned you > > > will do three good things. First, again as Ray > > told you, its > > > better for the fish. Second, it will be way less > > work for you. > > > Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging > > that RO by > > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in > > Niagra Falls, NY > > > are you? > > > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here > > on Group, > > > don't worry about it. As you will notice, this > > is a very friendly > > > and open group. They post football scores, fish > > food recipes and a > > > host of other things.. But most here know "what > > water problems can > > > be" either they have been there themselves or know > > someone else who > > > has. Also, others many be tuning-into your > > problem for the first > > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest > > something that > > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > > > > I can't use my tap water at all - it > > > > is softened and the softened tap > > > > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even > > use a tenth > > > > tap. I > > > > use RO Right. > > > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but > > don't want > > > > to keep > > > > boring people by doing this. But really, it is > > the softener > > > > that's > > > > the issue and the water is not potable without > > the softener > > > > - I have > > > > described this many times, don't want to bore > > everyone. > > > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap > > water is > > > > lethal and > > > > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy > > drinking water > > > > for myself > > > > and John. > > > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO > > and I use > > > > the RO > > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > > > > understanding that > > > > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, > > you should > > > > never use pure > > > > > R/O > > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water > > may be too > > > > hard, but > > > > > since you > > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea > > if it may > > > > be suitable or > > > > > not. > > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way > > too hard > > > > for the fish > > > > > you like to keep, > > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to > > R/O water, > > > > you should > > > > > still mix > > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if > > in a ratio > > > > of 80% (or > > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the > > aquarium > > > > water at least > > > > > a minimal > > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O > > water (it like > > > > a vacuum for > > > > > any > > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether > > directly or > > > > indirectly > > > > > as in through > > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can > > leach out > > > > the calcium in > > > > > the > > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory > > system. > > > > This ultra- > > > > > pure water > > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting > > minerals in > > > > the fishes' > > > > > bodies > > > > > through the gills where many other chemical > > exchanges, > > > > besides > > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over > > the gills. > > > > Water > > > > > completely > > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper > > growth of > > > > fry's > > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate > > and even > > > > sometimes > > > > > deformities. > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45893	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

They don't seem to be involved, but like I said, my water is pretty much like everyone else's where I live: you have to filter it. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 10:37 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > What does your water authority say? > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > western MA USA > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:24 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > Yes I was wondering what country you are from as well. US water > is so > > highly regulated. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to > help. I > > think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray maybe > > trying to > > get to is this. > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets > to the > > softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the pipe. If > > you try > > this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test sample. I don't > > remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they were the > > figures > > that you posted before. Make sure your testing kit is recent. If > > you can > > "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three good things. First, again > > as Ray > > told you, its better for the fish. Second, it will be way less work > > for > > you. Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that > RO by > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY > > are you? > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > > don't worry > > about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly and open > > group. They > > post football scores, fish food recipes and a host of other > > things.. But > > most here know "what water problems can be" either they have been > > there > > themselves or know someone else who has. Also, others many be > > tuning-into > > your problem for the first time and maybe able to offer special > > help or > > suggest something that has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > > > I can't use my tap water at all - it > > > is softened and the softened tap > > > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even use a tenth > > > tap. I > > > use RO Right. > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want > > > to keep > > > boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > > > that's > > > the issue and the water is not potable without the softener > > > - I have > > > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is > > > lethal and > > > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water > > > for myself > > > and John. > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > > > the RO > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > > > understanding that > > > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@ > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > > > never use pure > > > > R/O > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > > > hard, but > > > > since you > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > > > be suitable or > > > > not. > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > > > for the fish > > > > you like to keep, > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > > > you should > > > > still mix > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > > > of 80% (or > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > > > water at least > > > > a minimal > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > > > a vacuum for > > > > any > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > > > indirectly > > > > as in through > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > > > the calcium in > > > > the > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > > > This ultra- > > > > pure water > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > > > the fishes' > > > > bodies > > > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > > > besides > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > > > Water > > > > completely > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > > > fry's > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > > > sometimes > > > > deformities. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife- <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45894	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Thanks, Donna, I am proceeding on my own. I don't think they could eat yet either, they don't seem to be able to swim yet. As soon as they can swim I will start feeding, that's just common sense. It is a bit hard to monitor this, since they are not really visible to the naked eye and I have to use a flashlight and magnifying glass, and even then, I'm not real clear about what I'm looking at! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > I know nothing about rams, but since it's late and you have no > replies... > > I think as long as they have the big bellies and are not free > swimming, they > are living on the egg sac and they don't have to eat. > > That's true for African rift lake cichlids, I'm sure it's true for > at least > some other fish as well. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > I bought the property and found things out the hard way trying to > build a house. But to be honest, most of the wells out here where I > live are similar. It's sort of a given that all hell breaks loose > when you try to drink the water. Everyone I know around here has > filters and so forth on their well water. I have had every test known > to science run on my water and the air in my house so that nothing > bad would happen to me, John or the birds, so I think I know what's > going on. I have a whole house radon fan and do test the air to make > sure we're not gassing ourselves. > > OK, wigglers are wriggling all over the rock and floor! Very > nervewracking. I took my two best heaters out of my other tanks and > put both of them in the ten g. The temp is up to 79. Now I'm rigging > up some way to hatch the brine, I think I can do it for tomorrow. I > am hoping Ray can tell me if they need to eat now or tomorrow - I > can't tell if they have hatched or what the heck. They look like > tadpoles. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:29 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > On board with the RO plan? I am! Moreover I did a bit of reading > > up on that RO stuff that your adding as conditioner for trace > > minerals and stuff. The second issue is this; it or you must be > > doing something right or those fish would not be spawning in the > > first place! > > > > I can't exactly speak for Ray but I surely would be considered old > > school in that I try to approach the hobby and try to achieve > > results in the less costly and most common sense manner possible. > > I've found that things get complicated enough by themselves without > > adding to it. There are always exceptions to every rule as you know > > and I think your one of them. But again, like the youngsters say, > > "Hey, you go with what works"! Its obviously working for you so > > stay with what your doing. > > > > Then there is the personal issue. You can do what you will to me > > but never, ever mess with my coffee! Lenny from group here will > > tell you that is a very serious matter with me! <G> > > > > There is a serious question that is nagging at me though, and if > > you can share the answer I'd appreciate it. If the water is not > > potable as you say then how could anyone sell you this house in the > > first place OR have you lived there this long and then the water > > went South? At this point in time I would be more concerned about > > the air you're breathing and things around you. You know what they > > say, "Sometimes its what you can't see". Reading all that you > > described, I also wonder about those beautiful birds you keep. > > > > Lastly----------------------how are those fry and water temps > > coming along? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 8:33 PM > > > Bill - > > > > > > I do have the test results on my well water before my > > > filters and > > > softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I > > > don't think > > > the test results could possibly convey this in all its > > > glory. I live > > > in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the > > > water while > > > pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. > > > The > > > manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The > > > sulfur stench > > > would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with > > > the > > > fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so > > > hard or > > > whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes > > > absolutely > > > disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - > > > it would be > > > undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's > > > radioactive! > > > Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) > > > > > > Now are you on board with the RO plan? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only > > > trying to > > > > help. I think you understand that by > > > now. BUT, I think what Ray > > > > maybe trying to get to is this. > > > > > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water > > > BEFORE it gets to > > > > the softening system, RO or anything else? Just > > > right out the > > > > pipe. If you try this, let the water run a bit > > > BEFORE you take a > > > > test sample. I don't remember if you tested in > > > this manner or not > > > > and if they were the figures that you posted > > > before. Make sure > > > > your testing kit is recent. If you can "mix" as > > > Ray mentioned you > > > > will do three good things. First, again as Ray > > > told you, its > > > > better for the fish. Second, it will be way less > > > work for you. > > > > Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging > > > that RO by > > > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in > > > Niagra Falls, NY > > > > are you? > > > > > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here > > > on Group, > > > > don't worry about it. As you will notice, this > > > is a very friendly > > > > and open group. They post football scores, fish > > > food recipes and a > > > > host of other things.. But most here know "what > > > water problems can > > > > be" either they have been there themselves or know > > > someone else who > > > > has. Also, others many be tuning-into your > > > problem for the first > > > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest > > > something that > > > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM > > > > > I can't use my tap water at all - it > > > > > is softened and the softened tap > > > > > water kills my plants and inverts. I can't even > > > use a tenth > > > > > tap. I > > > > > use RO Right. > > > > > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but > > > don't want > > > > > to keep > > > > > boring people by doing this. But really, it is > > > the softener > > > > > that's > > > > > the issue and the water is not potable without > > > the softener > > > > > - I have > > > > > described this many times, don't want to bore > > > everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap > > > water is > > > > > lethal and > > > > > there is nothing I can do about it! I buy > > > drinking water > > > > > for myself > > > > > and John. > > > > > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO > > > and I use > > > > > the RO > > > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my > > > > > understanding that > > > > > the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, > > > you should > > > > > never use pure > > > > > > R/O > > > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water > > > may be too > > > > > hard, but > > > > > > since you > > > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea > > > if it may > > > > > be suitable or > > > > > > not. > > > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way > > > too hard > > > > > for the fish > > > > > > you like to keep, > > > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to > > > R/O water, > > > > > you should > > > > > > still mix > > > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if > > > in a ratio > > > > > of 80% (or > > > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the > > > aquarium > > > > > water at least > > > > > > a minimal > > > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O > > > water (it like > > > > > a vacuum for > > > > > > any > > > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether > > > directly or > > > > > indirectly > > > > > > as in through > > > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can > > > leach out > > > > > the calcium in > > > > > > the > > > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory > > > system. > > > > > This ultra- > > > > > > pure water > > > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting > > > minerals in > > > > > the fishes' > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > through the gills where many other chemical > > > exchanges, > > > > > besides > > > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over > > > the gills. > > > > > Water > > > > > > completely > > > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper > > > growth of > > > > > fry's > > > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate > > > and even > > > > > sometimes > > > > > > deformities. > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45895	From: William M	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

> > OK, wigglers are wriggling all over the rock and floor! Very > nervewracking. I took my two best heaters out of my other tanks and > put both of them in the ten g. The temp is up to 79. Now I'm rigging > up some way to hatch the brine, I think I can do it for tomorrow. I > am hoping Ray can tell me if they need to eat now or tomorrow - I > can't tell if they have hatched or what the heck. They look like > tadpoles. They have hatched. They are not free swimming yet, that will be in another day or so before they are free swimming and then you will need to start feeding them.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45896	From: William M	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

The eggs have hatched and are now wigglers as you call them. They are eating the nourishment in the yoke of the egg and will be free swimming in another day or two. When they are all free swimming, you will add food for them. You can put some rams horn snails to help clean up the uneaten food including dead baby brine shrimp but you still need to do partial water changes to make sure that the water conditions are the best for the growing of the baby fish. By the way, congratulations for being the grandparents of these newly hatched babies. > > OK, wigglers are wriggling all over the rock and floor! Very > nervewracking. I took my two best heaters out of my other tanks and > put both of them in the ten g. The temp is up to 79. Now I'm rigging > up some way to hatch the brine, I think I can do it for tomorrow. I > am hoping Ray can tell me if they need to eat now or tomorrow - I > can't tell if they have hatched or what the heck. They look like > tadpoles.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45897	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

Lainey -- Don't Panic! I just saw this right now (11:552 PM). Count three and a half days + after you first see the fry hatch (as wrigglers). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45898	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

Amber, I've already told Lainey what to use for this fungus not to develop -- either Kordon's Acriflavin or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus Cure -- but apparently neither one is on hand from what I'm reading. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45899	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Update on the new fish

Sorry to hear about the loss of all those new fish, Amber -- but this is a rough time of year to ship fish. Personally, I'd never even consider it as for one thing the weather is gonna tend to be colder for the most part, and then, there's no predicting any delays in shipping. Coupled to that, while heat packs may even be used, they are available for different time durations. If they are used being good for 24 hours (as an example) and it takes 36 hours to get the fish to you, well . . . you do the math. A longer duration heat pack might have ensured that the box was kept a bit warmer for a longer period of time. Well, at least you know what to expect for the next time. I hope you decide to get more of these same species that you enjoy, but when the weather improves. Lots of luck with the ones that survived. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45900	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: more wiggling news

Lainey, Yes, this is good that the fry are falling off the rock, away from the fungussing remains. This is what I was describing when I said that if you had gravel, that these falling fry would now be falling down into and between the gravel grains -- and with their struggling (wriggling) they would only tend to fall even further down into the gravel getting lost and not being able to swim out when that time came. This is the reason for having a bare bottom, so this can't happen. As this evening was the first time you saw these fry wriggling, do not feed them until Tuesday evening or perhaps even Wednesday morning -- depending on when ALL of them are swimming. You can remove the rock, with the fungussed eggs, after all the fry have fallen off but don't be too fast to remove it if there's still some fry attached to it. If that's the case, you can remove it after they're all free-swimming. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45901	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Lainey, Reading your message of 9:45 PM, your main concern here is whether your fry have hatched. If they're wriggling -- they've HATCHED. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45902	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Her water authority says . . . If she wants to avoid Montezuma's Revenge . . . Don't drink the water!!! (LOL)</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45903	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I think that kind of *well* water is actually an oxymoron. It should probably be called ill water or sick water. ;-) Gotta wonder what's feeding all them trees in that pristine forest though... and tap into that. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey Very glad I don't have to deal with that kind of well water. Sounds very frustrating. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I know, but there were two wells dug already on my land, one was not a > good well, and apparently, getting water at all is a long shot. I'm > extremely lucky to have a well anywhere on the property because the > whole area around the house is bedrock. They had to dynamite for the > foundation and even the propane tank! I could easily have to dig in > thirty places to find another well... > > Instead, I work with it via sediment filters, sand filters, softeners, > radon aerators and then after all that, I buy drinking water! > > But you'll believe me when I tell you that even after all the filters, > my tap water still kills inverts in 45 minutes and plants in one week. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:40 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Wow, I'd be thinking about digging a new well if my water was like >> that, LOL. >> Is that not possible? I know it's not cheap. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Bill - >>> >>> I do have the test results on my well water before my filters and >>> softener, but you gotta believe me, it's not potable. I don't think >>> the test results could possibly convey this in all its glory. I live >>> in a pristene forest, but the well is 300 feet and the water while >>> pure of chemicals like gasoline etc. could not be nastier. The >>> manganese, iron and hardness are through the roof. The sulfur stench >>> would be so foul that you couldn't stay in the room with the >>> fishtanks. The color is brown. It burns your skin it's so hard or >>> whatever, maybe it's the iron and mang. It tastes absolutely >>> disgusting, you can't even make a cup of coffee with it - it >>> >> would be >> >>> undrinkable. And, if you're still not impressed: it's radioactive! >>> Radon levels exceed all state safety limits:))) >>> >>> Now are you on board with the RO plan? >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 16, 2010, at 8:02 PM, bill 1433 wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi Lainey, >>>> >>>> Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to >>>> help. I think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray >>>> maybe trying to get to is this. >>>> >>>> Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets to >>>> the softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the pipe. >>>> If you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test >>>> sample. I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not and if >>>> they were the figures that you posted before. Make sure your >>>> testing kit is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you will >>>> do three good things. First, again as Ray told you, its better for >>>> the fish. Second, it will be way less work for you. >>>> Third, you will save a batch of money from re-charging that RO by >>>> using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY >>>> are you? >>>> >>>> Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, >>>> don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly >>>> and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes and a >>>> host of other things.. But most here know "what water problems can >>>> be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else who >>>> has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first >>>> time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something that >>>> has not even been mentioned yet. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >>>> >> wrote: >> >>>> >>>>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM I can't use my tap water >>>>> at all - it is softened and the softened tap water kills my plants >>>>> and inverts. I can't even use a tenth tap. I use RO Right. >>>>> >>>>> Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want to >>>>> keep boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener >>>>> that's the issue and the water is not potable without the softener >>>>> - I have >>>>> described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. >>>>> >>>>> Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is lethal >>>>> and there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water for >>>>> myself and John. >>>>> >>>>> So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use the RO >>>>> Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my understanding >>>>> that the RO Right should correct the RO. >>>>> >>>>> Lainey >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@... >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> never use pure >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> R/O >>>>>> water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> hard, but >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> since you >>>>>> never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> be suitable or >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> not. >>>>>> Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> for the fish >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> you like to keep, >>>>>> and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> you should >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> still mix >>>>>> your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> of 80% (or >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> 75%) R/O >>>>>> water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> water at least >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> a minimal >>>>>> amount of elements. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> a vacuum for >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> any >>>>>> minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> indirectly >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> as in through >>>>>> an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> the calcium in >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> This ultra- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> pure water >>>>>> will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> the fishes' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> bodies >>>>>> through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> besides >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> oxygen and carbon >>>>>> dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Water >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> completely >>>>>> devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> fry's >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> skeletal structure, >>>>>> resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> sometimes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> deformities. >>>>>> Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45904	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I seemed to have missed that part about your using Kent Marine's R/O Right, or at least it didn't register at the time. I do seem to sort of remember a mention of this by you a short time back if I'm not mistaken. Yes, this would be perfectly acceptable with R/O water in lieu of mixing it with your toxic waste dump effluent (LOL). I wouldn't really describe your situation as having a well -- you have my sympathies there. I wouldn't even know what you could use that liquid toxin for. Certainly not to shower with if it's discolored and I'd be hesitant that it might eat away my fenders if I use it to wash my car <g>. And you're saying that there are actually filters that will remove all that stuff? Wow, that's getting desperate, but I can see there's no choice. If you keep pumping it, maybe you'll get an oil gusher. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45905	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Congratulations! I have been lurking and reading your posts with interest. I hope you can post some pictures for us, I would love to see the babies and the parents. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ > > OK, wigglers are wriggling all over the rock and floor! Very > nervewracking. I took my two best heaters out of my other tanks and > put both of them in the ten g. The temp is up to 79. Now I'm rigging > up some way to hatch the brine, I think I can do it for tomorrow. I > am hoping Ray can tell me if they need to eat now or tomorrow - I > can't tell if they have hatched or what the heck. They look like > tadpoles. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45906	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I didn't think anyone else had as bad of a water source as we have down here in N'Awlins (The Great Mississippi River... after 20 other States have dumped all their junk in the water) but it seems you have worse than us up there in the Rep. of Mass. I still wonder what's feeding all them trees in your pristine forest around you. They have to be getting good water from some where and it can't just be rain, melting snow, etc. The roots of big trees search 100's of feet for good water. Or, maybe that nasty water is just being filtered really well as it permeates up through the rock bed so that it's mostly clean by the time it gets to the tree roots. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey They don't seem to be involved, but like I said, my water is pretty much like everyone else's where I live: you have to filter it. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 10:37 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > What does your water authority say? > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > western MA USA > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:24 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > Yes I was wondering what country you are from as well. US water > is so > > highly regulated. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:03 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to > help. I > > think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray maybe trying > > to get to is this. > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets > to the > > softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the pipe. If > > you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test sample. > > I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they > > were the figures that you posted before. Make sure your testing kit > > is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three good > > things. First, again as Ray told you, its better for the fish. > > Second, it will be way less work for you. Third, you will save a > > batch of money from re-charging that > RO by > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY > > are you? > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > > don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly > > and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes and a > > host of other things.. But most here know "what water problems can > > be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else who > > has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something that > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM I can't use my tap water > > > at all - it is softened and the softened tap water kills my plants > > > and inverts. I can't even use a tenth tap. I use RO Right. > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want to > > > keep boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > > > that's the issue and the water is not potable without the softener > > > - I have > > > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is lethal > > > and there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water for > > > myself and John. > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use the RO > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my understanding > > > that the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@ > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > > > never use pure > > > > R/O > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > > > hard, but > > > > since you > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > > > be suitable or > > > > not. > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > > > for the fish > > > > you like to keep, > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > > > you should > > > > still mix > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > > > of 80% (or > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > > > water at least > > > > a minimal > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > > > a vacuum for > > > > any > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > > > indirectly > > > > as in through > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > > > the calcium in > > > > the > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > > > This ultra- > > > > pure water > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > > > the fishes' > > > > bodies > > > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > > > besides > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > > > Water > > > > completely > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > > > fry's > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > > > sometimes > > > > deformities. > > > > Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45907	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Ray, Now you've got me humming... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y9dkCJYB8M Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 11:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I seemed to have missed that part about your using Kent Marine's R/O Right, or at least it didn't register at the time. I do seem to sort of remember a mention of this by you a short time back if I'm not mistaken. Yes, this would be perfectly acceptable with R/O water in lieu of mixing it with your toxic waste dump effluent (LOL). I wouldn't really describe your situation as having a well -- you have my sympathies there. I wouldn't even know what you could use that liquid toxin for. Certainly not to shower with if it's discolored and I'd be hesitant that it might eat away my fenders if I use it to wash my car <g>. And you're saying that there are actually filters that will remove all that stuff? Wow, that's getting desperate, but I can see there's no choice. If you keep pumping it, maybe you'll get an oil gusher. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45908	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

I wasn't able to get these. I am confused as to what the fungus does and whether it will kill the wigglers. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:56 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Amber, I've already told Lainey what to use for this fungus not to > develop > -- either Kordon's Acriflavin or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus Cure -- but > apparently neither one is on hand from what I'm reading. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45909	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I don't think it's at all bad for the earth, it's just minerals after all, even the radiation is coming from granite. Trees just love the stuff! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:05 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I didn't think anyone else had as bad of a water source as we have > down here > in N'Awlins (The Great Mississippi River... after 20 other States have > dumped all their junk in the water) but it seems you have worse > than us up > there in the Rep. of Mass. > > I still wonder what's feeding all them trees in your pristine > forest around > you. They have to be getting good water from some where and it > can't just > be rain, melting snow, etc. The roots of big trees search 100's of > feet for > good water. Or, maybe that nasty water is just being filtered > really well > as it permeates up through the rock bed so that it's mostly clean > by the > time it gets to the tree roots. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > They don't seem to be involved, but like I said, my water is pretty > much > like everyone else's where I live: you have to filter it. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 10:37 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > What does your water authority say? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > western MA USA > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:24 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > Yes I was wondering what country you are from as well. US water > > is so > > > highly regulated. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to > > help. I > > > think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray maybe > trying > > > to get to is this. > > > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets > > to the > > > softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the pipe. If > > > you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test > sample. > > > I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they > > > were the figures that you posted before. Make sure your testing > kit > > > is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three > good > > > things. First, again as Ray told you, its better for the fish. > > > Second, it will be way less work for you. Third, you will save a > > > batch of money from re-charging that > > RO by > > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY > > > are you? > > > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > > > don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly > > > and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes and a > > > host of other things.. But most here know "what water problems can > > > be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else > who > > > has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first > > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something > that > > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM I can't use my tap > water > > > > at all - it is softened and the softened tap water kills my > plants > > > > and inverts. I can't even use a tenth tap. I use RO Right. > > > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want to > > > > keep boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > > > > that's the issue and the water is not potable without the > softener > > > > - I have > > > > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is lethal > > > > and there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water for > > > > myself and John. > > > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > the RO > > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my understanding > > > > that the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@ > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > > > > never use pure > > > > > R/O > > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > > > > hard, but > > > > > since you > > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > > > > be suitable or > > > > > not. > > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > > > > for the fish > > > > > you like to keep, > > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > > > > you should > > > > > still mix > > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > > > > of 80% (or > > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > > > > water at least > > > > > a minimal > > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > > > > a vacuum for > > > > > any > > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > > > > indirectly > > > > > as in through > > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > > > > the calcium in > > > > > the > > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > > > > This ultra- > > > > > pure water > > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > > > > the fishes' > > > > > bodies > > > > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > > > > besides > > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > > > > Water > > > > > completely > > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > > > > fry's > > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > > > > sometimes > > > > > deformities. > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

I'm not sure if you saw Ray's reply about removing the rock with any fungussed eggs on it, after all the hatched wrigglers have fallen from and/or swam off of the rock. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OMG Ram eggs hatching! I wasn't able to get these. I am confused as to what the fungus does and whether it will kill the wigglers. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:56 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Amber, I've already told Lainey what to use for this fungus not to > develop > -- either Kordon's Acriflavin or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus Cure -- but > apparently neither one is on hand from what I'm reading. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45911	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: more wiggling news

OK, but I'm worried about the fungus and I don't want to use anything drastic (medication) at this stage when the eggs are hatching. Is the fungus OK now? Should I stop worrying about it now that the fish are hatching? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 12:15 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Yes, this is good that the fry are falling off the rock, > away from > the fungussing remains. This is what I was describing when I said > that if > you had gravel, that these falling fry would now be falling down > into and > between the gravel grains -- and with their struggling (wriggling) > they would > only tend to fall even further down into the gravel getting lost > and not > being able to swim out when that time came. This is the reason for > having a > bare bottom, so this can't happen. As this evening was the first > time you saw > these fry wriggling, do not feed them until Tuesday evening or > perhaps even > Wednesday morning -- depending on when ALL of them are swimming. > > You can remove the rock, with the fungussed eggs, after all the fry > have > fallen off but don't be too fast to remove it if there's still some > fry > attached to it. If that's the case, you can remove it after they're > all > free-swimming. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45912	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

I did see it, but in the meantime there's a lot of fungus! Not sure what to do about it... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:29 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I'm not sure if you saw Ray's reply about removing the rock with any > fungussed eggs on it, after all the hatched wrigglers have fallen from > and/or swam off of the rock. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OMG Ram eggs hatching! > > I wasn't able to get these. I am confused as to what the fungus > does and > whether it will kill the wigglers. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 11:56 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > Amber, I've already told Lainey what to use for this fungus not to > > develop > > -- either Kordon's Acriflavin or A.P.I.'s Liquid Fungus Cure -- but > > apparently neither one is on hand from what I'm reading. Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45913	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

You mentioned that it killed your aquatic plants so I just figured the trees were getting their water from another source. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I don't think it's at all bad for the earth, it's just minerals after all, even the radiation is coming from granite. Trees just love the stuff! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:05 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I didn't think anyone else had as bad of a water source as we have > down here in N'Awlins (The Great Mississippi River... after 20 other > States have dumped all their junk in the water) but it seems you have > worse than us up there in the Rep. of Mass. > > I still wonder what's feeding all them trees in your pristine forest > around you. They have to be getting good water from some where and it > can't just be rain, melting snow, etc. The roots of big trees search > 100's of feet for good water. Or, maybe that nasty water is just being > filtered really well as it permeates up through the rock bed so that > it's mostly clean by the time it gets to the tree roots. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > They don't seem to be involved, but like I said, my water is pretty > much like everyone else's where I live: you have to filter it. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 10:37 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > What does your water authority say? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > western MA USA > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:24 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > Yes I was wondering what country you are from as well. US water > > is so > > > highly regulated. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:03 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to > > help. I > > > think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray maybe > trying > > > to get to is this. > > > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets > > to the > > > softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the pipe. If > > > you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test > sample. > > > I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they > > > were the figures that you posted before. Make sure your testing > kit > > > is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three > good > > > things. First, again as Ray told you, its better for the fish. > > > Second, it will be way less work for you. Third, you will save a > > > batch of money from re-charging that > > RO by > > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra Falls, NY > > > are you? > > > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > > > don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very friendly > > > and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes and a > > > host of other things.. But most here know "what water problems can > > > be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else > who > > > has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first > > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something > that > > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM I can't use my tap > water > > > > at all - it is softened and the softened tap water kills my > plants > > > > and inverts. I can't even use a tenth tap. I use RO Right. > > > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want to > > > > keep boring people by doing this. But really, it is the softener > > > > that's the issue and the water is not potable without the > softener > > > > - I have > > > > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is lethal > > > > and there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking water for > > > > myself and John. > > > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > the RO > > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my understanding > > > > that the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@ > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > > > > never use pure > > > > > R/O > > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > > > > hard, but > > > > > since you > > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > > > > be suitable or > > > > > not. > > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > > > > for the fish > > > > > you like to keep, > > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > > > > you should > > > > > still mix > > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > > > > of 80% (or > > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > > > > water at least > > > > > a minimal > > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > > > > a vacuum for > > > > > any > > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > > > > indirectly > > > > > as in through > > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > > > > the calcium in > > > > > the > > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > > > > This ultra- > > > > > pure water > > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > > > > the fishes' > > > > > bodies > > > > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > > > > besides > > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > > > > Water > > > > > completely > > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > > > > fry's > > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > > > > sometimes > > > > > deformities. > > > > > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45914	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

No, it was the softener salt (necessary) that was killing the inverts and plants. Potassium chloride. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:52 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You mentioned that it killed your aquatic plants so I just figured > the trees > were getting their water from another source. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > I don't think it's at all bad for the earth, it's just minerals > after all, > even the radiation is coming from granite. Trees just love the stuff! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:05 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I didn't think anyone else had as bad of a water source as we have > > down here in N'Awlins (The Great Mississippi River... after 20 other > > States have dumped all their junk in the water) but it seems you > have > > worse than us up there in the Rep. of Mass. > > > > I still wonder what's feeding all them trees in your pristine forest > > around you. They have to be getting good water from some where > and it > > can't just be rain, melting snow, etc. The roots of big trees search > > 100's of feet for good water. Or, maybe that nasty water is just > being > > filtered really well as it permeates up through the rock bed so that > > it's mostly clean by the time it gets to the tree roots. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > They don't seem to be involved, but like I said, my water is pretty > > much like everyone else's where I live: you have to filter it. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 10:37 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > What does your water authority say? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > western MA USA > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:24 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > Yes I was wondering what country you are from as well. US water > > > is so > > > > highly regulated. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:03 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to > > > help. I > > > > think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray maybe > > trying > > > > to get to is this. > > > > > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets > > > to the > > > > softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the > pipe. If > > > > you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test > > sample. > > > > I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they > > > > were the figures that you posted before. Make sure your testing > > kit > > > > is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three > > good > > > > things. First, again as Ray told you, its better for the fish. > > > > Second, it will be way less work for you. Third, you will save a > > > > batch of money from re-charging that > > > RO by > > > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra > Falls, NY > > > > are you? > > > > > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > > > > don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very > friendly > > > > and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes > and a > > > > host of other things.. But most here know "what water > problems can > > > > be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else > > who > > > > has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first > > > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something > > that > > > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM I can't use my tap > > water > > > > > at all - it is softened and the softened tap water kills my > > plants > > > > > and inverts. I can't even use a tenth tap. I use RO Right. > > > > > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want to > > > > > keep boring people by doing this. But really, it is the > softener > > > > > that's the issue and the water is not potable without the > > softener > > > > > - I have > > > > > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is > lethal > > > > > and there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking > water for > > > > > myself and John. > > > > > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > > the RO > > > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my understanding > > > > > that the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@ > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > > > > > never use pure > > > > > > R/O > > > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > > > > > hard, but > > > > > > since you > > > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > > > > > be suitable or > > > > > > not. > > > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > > > > > for the fish > > > > > > you like to keep, > > > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > > > > > you should > > > > > > still mix > > > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > > > > > of 80% (or > > > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > > > > > water at least > > > > > > a minimal > > > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > > > > > a vacuum for > > > > > > any > > > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > > > > > indirectly > > > > > > as in through > > > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > > > > > the calcium in > > > > > > the > > > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > > > > > This ultra- > > > > > > pure water > > > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > > > > > the fishes' > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > > > > > besides > > > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > > > > > Water > > > > > > completely > > > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > > > > > fry's > > > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > > > > > sometimes > > > > > > deformities. > > > > > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45915	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Oohhh.. OK. So it was your filtered water that wasn't good for the plants. You know, after you're done parenting your new fry, you should set up a test with a big plastic Rubbermaid type tub and just use your plain well water, running an HOB filter system (or canister) with Purigen as the chemical filtration on it and see how it does. You could do this out in the woodshed or something so that any gases can outgas outside of your house. I'm picturing your rustic forest home with having a woodshed, workshop or some other out-building... but not an outhouse... wasn't gonna go there... LOL Run it for a day or so or more and then set up a test tank. Then take one of your hardier fish and acclimate it slowly to this new water, then move it to the test tank and see how it does. Actually, during the acclimation process, you'll see if there is ever any distress and then you could add some of your *normal* RO/RO Right water if it starts to show distress and then re-acclimate it back to the tank it came from. You may find that you still have to use some RO water to soften the well water since Purigen will not remove most of the hardness, although it might remove some, but the Purigen cleaned water would be a lot cheaper and you can cheaply and easily recharge the Purigen media over and over. After running the water through the Purigen for a day or so, test the water for hardness (GH & KH), pH, etc. and then you could just mix a certain percentage of RO water to that Purigen cleaned and outgased water to achieve the hardness level and pH level you desire. I'm not guaranteeing this would work but considering the cost of RO water (time and filters) and Kent's RO Right, it would be worth the $7.00 investment in a 100ml packet of Purigen to see how it does. It will remove any discoloration, DOC's, etc. from the well water. I have more about Purigen on my blog article about proper "Filter Cleaning And Maintenance" and like me, you can skip the 3rd step in recharging the Purigen since you have such hard water already so the only thing you would need is plain bleach and a dechlor product (like API's Tap Water Conditioner), which you would need if you get away from the full RO water anyhow... but those two products are really cheap compared to RO filters. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey No, it was the softener salt (necessary) that was killing the inverts and plants. Potassium chloride. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:52 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You mentioned that it killed your aquatic plants so I just figured the > trees were getting their water from another source. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > I don't think it's at all bad for the earth, it's just minerals after > all, even the radiation is coming from granite. Trees just love the > stuff! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:05 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > I didn't think anyone else had as bad of a water source as we have > > down here in N'Awlins (The Great Mississippi River... after 20 other > > States have dumped all their junk in the water) but it seems you > have > > worse than us up there in the Rep. of Mass. > > > > I still wonder what's feeding all them trees in your pristine forest > > around you. They have to be getting good water from some where > and it > > can't just be rain, melting snow, etc. The roots of big trees search > > 100's of feet for good water. Or, maybe that nasty water is just > being > > filtered really well as it permeates up through the rock bed so that > > it's mostly clean by the time it gets to the tree roots. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > They don't seem to be involved, but like I said, my water is pretty > > much like everyone else's where I live: you have to filter it. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 10:37 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > What does your water authority say? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:28 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > western MA USA > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 9:24 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > Yes I was wondering what country you are from as well. US water > > > is so > > > > highly regulated. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 8:03 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > > > > > Not trying to "sass" you back or anything here, only trying to > > > help. I > > > > think you understand that by now. BUT, I think what Ray maybe > > trying > > > > to get to is this. > > > > > > > > Can you give us test readings of your well water BEFORE it gets > > > to the > > > > softening system, RO or anything else? Just right out the > pipe. If > > > > you try this, let the water run a bit BEFORE you take a test > > sample. > > > > I don't remember if you tested in this manner or not and if they > > > > were the figures that you posted before. Make sure your testing > > kit > > > > is recent. If you can "mix" as Ray mentioned you will do three > > good > > > > things. First, again as Ray told you, its better for the fish. > > > > Second, it will be way less work for you. Third, you will save a > > > > batch of money from re-charging that > > > RO by > > > > using it so hard. You're not by the Love Canal in Niagra > Falls, NY > > > > are you? > > > > > > > > Now as for re-posting or double posting of things here on Group, > > > > don't worry about it. As you will notice, this is a very > friendly > > > > and open group. They post football scores, fish food recipes > and a > > > > host of other things.. But most here know "what water > problems can > > > > be" either they have been there themselves or know someone else > > who > > > > has. Also, others many be tuning-into your problem for the first > > > > time and maybe able to offer special help or suggest something > > that > > > > has not even been mentioned yet. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink > > > > <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> .net> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:46 PM I can't use my tap > > water > > > > > at all - it is softened and the softened tap water kills my > > plants > > > > > and inverts. I can't even use a tenth tap. I use RO Right. > > > > > > > > > > Also, I posted my tap parameters many times, but don't want to > > > > > keep boring people by doing this. But really, it is the > softener > > > > > that's the issue and the water is not potable without the > > softener > > > > > - I have > > > > > described this many times, don't want to bore everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Please believe me when I tell you guys, the tap water is > lethal > > > > > and there is nothing I can do about it! I buy drinking > water for > > > > > myself and John. > > > > > > > > > > So, as I keep saying, for the tanks I use the RO and I use > > the RO > > > > > Right. And it's going very well so far. It is my understanding > > > > > that the RO Right should correct the RO. > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 5:10 PM, sevenspringss@ > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding to what Harry and Bill are saying, you should > > > > > never use pure > > > > > > R/O > > > > > > water. I could suspect that your tap water may be too > > > > > hard, but > > > > > > since you > > > > > > never posted its parameters I have no idea if it may > > > > > be suitable or > > > > > > not. > > > > > > Assuming though, that the tap water is way too hard > > > > > for the fish > > > > > > you like to keep, > > > > > > and that this is the reason you turned to R/O water, > > > > > you should > > > > > > still mix > > > > > > your R/O water with your tap water even if in a ratio > > > > > of 80% (or > > > > > > 75%) R/O > > > > > > water to 20% (or 25%) tap water to give the aquarium > > > > > water at least > > > > > > a minimal > > > > > > amount of elements. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are absolutely no minerals in R/O water (it like > > > > > a vacuum for > > > > > > any > > > > > > minerals it comes in contact with, whether directly or > > > > > indirectly > > > > > > as in through > > > > > > an intermediate function). As such, it can leach out > > > > > the calcium in > > > > > > the > > > > > > bones of the fish through the osmoregulatory system. > > > > > This ultra- > > > > > > pure water > > > > > > will slowly pull out the life-supporting minerals in > > > > > the fishes' > > > > > > bodies > > > > > > through the gills where many other chemical exchanges, > > > > > besides > > > > > > oxygen and carbon > > > > > > dioxide take place as the water passes over the gills. > > > > > Water > > > > > > completely > > > > > > devoid of minerals will not allow for proper growth of > > > > > fry's > > > > > > skeletal structure, > > > > > > resulting in noticeably poorer growth rate and even > > > > > sometimes > > > > > > deformities. > > > > > > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45916	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

It won't kill the wrigglers that fall off the rock, and won't kill any that it doesn't envelope on the rock but it can kill any wrigglers that it may overgrow and suffocate. This is one main reason that Angelfish breeders turn their spawning slates around for when placing them in hatching tanks. The wrigglers will mostly then hang suspended away from the slate hanging on an attached adhesive thread with many more falling away from the slate as this fungus grows. Even the wrigglers that are still attached to the slate and surrounded by any fungused eggs will almost always have a better chance of surviving as they become free swimming. If there's any way that you could position two other rocks on the bottom at the ends of the spawning rock (being careful of the wrigglers that have fallen) and turn the rock upside down suspended between these two other rocks, that would ensure most if not all the wrigglers will survive, with many more even falling away as their free-swimming time approaches. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45917	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45918	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

So that's how they make Flowerhorns! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 1:53 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey   Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45919	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I'd complain to the water authorities, local, state or federal. I wonder if the problem might be. If you have no potable water on site, you may not be able to get a CO (Certificate of Occupancy)? Or rather they might take it away? Like condemn the property? Or they might make you dig a new well? Maybe you and your neighbors NEED to keep silent so the government doesn't start trying to "fix" things. Minerals are great for people, but I think the sulfur would kill the trees as well. It's very odd! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey So that's how they make Flowerhorns! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 1:53 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45920	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Donna, With a well, there is no water authority to complain to. You are pretty much on your own. So far as the water being potable is concerned, this may not have applied at the time the house was built, and thus not have been a concern, or, the equipment that was installed was deemed to make the water potable. The water I receive from my municipal company is deemed to be fit for human consumption, yet, I have been drinking bottled water since I have been here because the water taste does not suit us. Water being deemed potable only means that you can drink it with a reasonable expectation of it not harming you, it has nothing to do with taste or appearance. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I'd complain to the water authorities, local, state or federal. I wonder if the problem might be. If you have no potable water on site, you may not be able to get a CO (Certificate of Occupancy)? Or rather they might take it away? Like condemn the property? Or they might make you dig a new well? Maybe you and your neighbors NEED to keep silent so the government doesn't start trying to "fix" things. Minerals are great for people, but I think the sulfur would kill the trees as well. It's very odd! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey So that's how they make Flowerhorns! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 1:53 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45921	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I'm just wondering, when Lainey has sometime, she's got her hands full right now. Maybe she would consider running a test for me to determine if this stuff can go hair? Bill---Hey! It's worth a shot, right? --- On Sun, 1/17/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:53 AM > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to > see if a test > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about > all that radioactive > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . > . HaHaHaHaHa!!!!  > Ray</HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45922	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Right but a bad taste would not impact the health of fish necessarily. For example I can get the town to include my well in a sample because there are organizations charged with safety issues. But I might not like the consequences if they found my water to be unsafe. Because as you said, if you have a well you are on your own to fix it. In my town they do provide municipal water closer to town and you are required to connect if it is available. Luckily it's still FAR away from me, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey Donna, With a well, there is no water authority to complain to. You are pretty much on your own. So far as the water being potable is concerned, this may not have applied at the time the house was built, and thus not have been a concern, or, the equipment that was installed was deemed to make the water potable. The water I receive from my municipal company is deemed to be fit for human consumption, yet, I have been drinking bottled water since I have been here because the water taste does not suit us. Water being deemed potable only means that you can drink it with a reasonable expectation of it not harming you, it has nothing to do with taste or appearance. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:00 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I'd complain to the water authorities, local, state or federal. I wonder if the problem might be. If you have no potable water on site, you may not be able to get a CO (Certificate of Occupancy)? Or rather they might take it away? Like condemn the property? Or they might make you dig a new well? Maybe you and your neighbors NEED to keep silent so the government doesn't start trying to "fix" things. Minerals are great for people, but I think the sulfur would kill the trees as well. It's very odd! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey So that's how they make Flowerhorns! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 1:53 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45923	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

The other issue is that my plants don't want that well water. I am trying to create these elaborate glorious planted tanks filled with lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. According to the best experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want the RO regardless of radioactive alternatives:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a > test > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that > radioactive > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . > HaHaHaHaHa!!!! > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45924	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Well, the Radon and many other noxious elements (like Chlorine, etc.) are actually gases and will outgas during the filtration/agitation stage, which is why I suggested doing this in an out-building. She already mention that she has a Radon Aerator as part of her whole house filtration system. And if she does end up with some Frankenfish, I'm sure there's some hobbyist that will buy these new *fancy* fish and since they're *fancy*, she could charge A LOT more for them... like those Electric Blue Rams that were recently posted about out here. They seem to buy every other Frankenfish that breeders... oops... I meant in-breeders come up with. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 3:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45925	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

Hmmm... Today the fungus has engulfed all the non-wriggling eggs so there is a huge glob of it where the eggs used to be with moldy eggs inside it. Wrigglers don't seem to be too close to it, though I see one on top of the fungal cloud. I think they're OK. I would say that one fifth or so of the potential eggs hatched and the rest were infertile or got eaten by fungus. There are maybe thirty to fifty wrigglers at this point. I am hoping that by the end of the day I can get the rock out of there. Maybe I should try blowing the remaining wigglers off the rock with a turkey baster? I am afraid to turn the rock over because it is huge and with all the w's on the floor I think I would kill some. Please advise if blowing them off would be a good idea. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:45 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > It won't kill the wrigglers that fall off the rock, and won't kill > any that > it doesn't envelope on the rock but it can kill any wrigglers that > it may > overgrow and suffocate. This is one main reason that Angelfish > breeders turn > their spawning slates around for when placing them in hatching > tanks. The > wrigglers will mostly then hang suspended away from the slate > hanging on an > attached adhesive thread with many more falling away from the slate > as this > fungus grows. Even the wrigglers that are still attached to the > slate and > surrounded by any fungused eggs will almost always have a better > chance of > surviving as they become free swimming. If there's any way that you > could > position two other rocks on the bottom at the ends of the spawning > rock (being > careful of the wrigglers that have fallen) and turn the rock upside > down > suspended between these two other rocks, that would ensure most if > not all the > wrigglers will survive, with many more even falling away as their > free-swimming time approaches. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

I doubt the water authorities have much to do with private wells, especially once she has added all the filtration remedies to make it *safer*. Not so much in N'Awlins, since we get our water from the Muddy Mississippi (also heavily polluted) BUT in the rural areas down here and in Mississippi, it's common to have that rotten egg smell in the water and rusty stains on the tub and sink caused by high iron and sulphur levels in the water. Folks have been living off that stuff for hundreds of years... and shazam... y'all nordeners ain't not much no differnt than us-ons down he-ah! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I'd complain to the water authorities, local, state or federal. I wonder if the problem might be. If you have no potable water on site, you may not be able to get a CO (Certificate of Occupancy)? Or rather they might take it away? Like condemn the property? Or they might make you dig a new well? Maybe you and your neighbors NEED to keep silent so the government doesn't start trying to "fix" things. Minerals are great for people, but I think the sulfur would kill the trees as well. It's very odd! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey So that's how they make Flowerhorns! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 1:53 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45927	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: OMG Ram eggs hatching!

Yes, Using a baster to blow them off the rock would be perfectly alright. You may break away some of the fungus junk too though, but if there are no wrigglers attached to it, you could then draw the stuff up with the baster to get rid of it. If not successful today in moving those wrigglers like that, try again tomorrow. As each successive day goes by toward the free-swimming stage the wrigglers will become less and less adhesive to the rock. Remember to start the brine shrimp hatcher tomorrow, hoping the fry can handle this as a first food when they swim. If not, just try the other foods you bought. Too, once you start feeding the fry BBS, you'll need another hatcher to alternate the hatching of the shrimp as you'll need a fresh supply of it every day. The BBS doesn't last that long even though some it may survive into their second day. It's most nutritious when used within the first 6 hours of hatching as the shrimp also have egg sacks that they live off of and thats the best time to feed them to the fry. While you may not get the second feeding of the day for the fry to fall within these first 6 hours, at least this second feeding won't be too far away from the end of that period. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45928	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Ram wiggler developments

Ray, I basted the w's off the rock. All I can see now is mold. I will monitor to make sure none remain and then remove the rock. I started the brine just to be safe. What I usually do is place the uneaten brine in the refrigerator for 24 hours so that I always have some. This seems to work as I can see them swimming even in the fridge. How many times per day should I feed the fry? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 12:30 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Yes, Using a baster to blow them off the rock would be perfectly > alright. > You may break away some of the fungus junk too though, but if there > are no > wrigglers attached to it, you could then draw the stuff up with the > baster to > get rid of it. If not successful today in moving those wrigglers > like that, > try again tomorrow. As each successive day goes by toward the > free-swimming stage the wrigglers will become less and less > adhesive to the rock. > > Remember to start the brine shrimp hatcher tomorrow, hoping the fry > can > handle this as a first food when they swim. If not, just try the > other foods > you bought. Too, once you start feeding the fry BBS, you'll need > another > hatcher to alternate the hatching of the shrimp as you'll need a > fresh supply > of it every day. The BBS doesn't last that long even though some it > may > survive into their second day. It's most nutritious when used > within the first > 6 hours of hatching as the shrimp also have egg sacks that they > live off of > and thats the best time to feed them to the fry. While you may not > get the > second feeding of the day for the fry to fall within these first 6 > hours, at > least this second feeding won't be too far away from the end of that > period. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45929	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

LOL... I guess you meant "grow hair". I think, from your comment, that you're already suffering from "go hair"... or would that be already gone hair? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I'm just wondering, when Lainey has sometime, she's got her hands full right now. Maybe she would consider running a test for me to determine if this stuff can go hair? Bill---Hey! It's worth a shot, right? --- On Sun, 1/17/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:53 AM > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a > test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all > that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into > FrankenFish . . > . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45930	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Sorry, I guess to be accurate it would actually be "Grow more or any hair"   Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 12:36 PM LOL... I guess you meant "grow hair".  I think, from your comment, that you're already suffering from "go hair"... or would that be already gone hair? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I'm just wondering, when Lainey has sometime, she's got her hands full right now.  Maybe she would consider running a test for me to determine if this stuff can go hair? Bill---Hey! It's worth a shot, right? --- On Sun, 1/17/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:53 AM > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a > test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all > that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into > FrankenFish . . > . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! >  Ray ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45931	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram wiggler developments

Lainey, To me, starting the BBS this soon would be too early for me, but then, I don't refrigerate it. That's fine though, if you want to hatch then refrigerate it. At least you'll have it on hand when you need it, and you'll know ahead of time if your BBS hatching is going alright. It's best to feed the fry at least 3 times a day, but if you have the time you can feed them up to 5 times a day for best growth. Beyond five feedings a day, there is very little extra benefit. Mind you, I'm not just throwing figures at you -- these are tried and true long established principles. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45932	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Pictures

I want to send pictures but I can't find my folder called Lainey, does anyone know how I can find it? The computer tells me it's there, but then it won't let me add a photo to it. TY Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45933	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures

Lainey, which folder, the one on YOUR computer or do you have a "Lainey" folder on the group photo's page?   Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:08 PM I want to send pictures but I can't find my folder called Lainey,  does anyone know how I can find it? The computer tells me it's there,  but then it won't let me add a photo to it. TY Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45934	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures

Your photo page is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/0/list?mode=tn&order=title&start=121&count=20&dir=asc Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pictures > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:18 PM > Lainey, which folder, the one on YOUR > computer or > do you have a "Lainey" folder on the group photo's page? >   > Bill > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:08 PM > > > I want to send pictures but I can't find my folder called > Lainey,  > does anyone know how I can find it? The computer tells me > it's there,  > but then it won't let me add a photo to it. > TY > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >       > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45935	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures/Lainey

Is this it?. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:08 PM   I want to send pictures but I can't find my folder called Lainey, does anyone know how I can find it? The computer tells me it's there, but then it won't let me add a photo to it. TY Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45936	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures

let me try again... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:21 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Your photo page is here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/0/list? > mode=tn&order=title&start=121&count=20&dir=asc > > Bill > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pictures > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:18 PM > > Lainey, which folder, the one on YOUR > > computer or > > do you have a "Lainey" folder on the group photo's page? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:08 PM > > > > > > I want to send pictures but I can't find my folder called > > Lainey, > > does anyone know how I can find it? The computer tells me > > it's there, > > but then it won't let me add a photo to it. > > TY > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45937	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures

Lainey?   Make sure when you working inside of your album you click on "add" and you should be logged-in to do it.   Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pictures To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:21 PM let me try again... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:21 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Your photo page is here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/0/list? > mode=tn&order=title&start=121&count=20&dir=asc > > Bill > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pictures > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:18 PM > > Lainey, which folder, the one on YOUR > > computer or > > do you have a "Lainey" folder on the group photo's page? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:08 PM > > > > > > I want to send pictures but I can't find my folder called > > Lainey, > > does anyone know how I can find it? The computer tells me > > it's there, > > but then it won't let me add a photo to it. > > TY > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45938	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is PTs? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey The other issue is that my plants don't want that well water. I am trying to create these elaborate glorious planted tanks filled with lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. According to the best experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want the RO regardless of radioactive alternatives:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a > test > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that > radioactive > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . > HaHaHaHaHa!!!! > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45939	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Maybe it's just NJ. But my well had to be tested when I built the house for me to get a CO and they can test it randomly ongoing. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I doubt the water authorities have much to do with private wells, especially once she has added all the filtration remedies to make it *safer*. Not so much in N'Awlins, since we get our water from the Muddy Mississippi (also heavily polluted) BUT in the rural areas down here and in Mississippi, it's common to have that rotten egg smell in the water and rusty stains on the tub and sink caused by high iron and sulphur levels in the water. Folks have been living off that stuff for hundreds of years... and shazam... y'all nordeners ain't not much no differnt than us-ons down he-ah! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:00 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey I'd complain to the water authorities, local, state or federal. I wonder if the problem might be. If you have no potable water on site, you may not be able to get a CO (Certificate of Occupancy)? Or rather they might take it away? Like condemn the property? Or they might make you dig a new well? Maybe you and your neighbors NEED to keep silent so the government doesn't start trying to "fix" things. Minerals are great for people, but I think the sulfur would kill the trees as well. It's very odd! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol. <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey So that's how they make Flowerhorns! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 1:53 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a test fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that radioactive stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . HaHaHaHaHa!!!! Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45940	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

PTs I mean planted tanks. I have asked some long time aquatic plant folks like the owner of greenleaf aquarium, the owner of Pfertz, the listowners and moderators at Arizona Aquatic Plants group, and some of the people with Aquatic Gardener's Assoc - they all seem to think the plants do best or at least extremely well in RO as long as you season the RO with RO Right by Kent or Equilibrium by Seachem (or DIY if you know how to replace the minerals). Seems to be working so far, my plants are suddenly not dying, they're growing, pearling and they don't have algae - since I switched to RO. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is PTs? > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > The other issue is that my plants don't want that well water. I am > trying to create these elaborate glorious planted tanks filled with > lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. According to the best > experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want the RO regardless of > radioactive alternatives:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a > > test > > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that > > radioactive > > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . > > HaHaHaHaHa!!!! > > Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45941	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Ya, and they look good too! Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 2:39 PM > PTs I mean planted tanks. I have > asked some long time aquatic plant  > folks like the owner of greenleaf aquarium, the owner of > Pfertz, the  > listowners and moderators at Arizona Aquatic Plants group, > and some  > of the people with Aquatic Gardener's Assoc - they all seem > to think  > the plants do best or at least extremely well in RO as long > as you  > season the RO with RO Right by Kent or Equilibrium by > Seachem (or DIY  > if you know how to replace the minerals). > > Seems to be working so far, my plants are suddenly not > dying, they're  > growing, pearling and they don't have algae - since I > switched to RO. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is PTs? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > The other issue is that my plants don't want that well > water. I am > > trying to create these elaborate glorious planted > tanks filled with > > lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. According > to the best > > experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want the RO > regardless of > > radioactive alternatives:) > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@... > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with > purigen to see if a > > > test > > > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but > how about all that > > > radioactive > > > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into > FrankenFish . . . > > > HaHaHaHaHa!!!! > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY  > > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership"  > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45942	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"

Here are pictures of the saga so far - comments welcome! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ list Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45943	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"/Lainey

I saw the pictures of your tank. I also visited your bird website. Obviously you are a person who makes things work no matter what the challenge. The plants in your tank are obviously very healthy. Nice job on the tank and the birds. Harry --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures of Blue Ram "situation" To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:11 PM   Here are pictures of the saga so far - comments welcome! http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/2049115566 /pic/ list Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45944	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"

Very fine Lainey but you're not going to get off so easy! Since you have a camera and surely know of to use it, we expect more pictures of fry as they progress! <g> Very good job and I really like the BBS hatcher! Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures of Blue Ram "situation" > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:11 PM > Here are pictures of the saga so far > - comments welcome! > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ > > list > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45945	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

Cool. I didn't know you were referring to reconstituted RO. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 2:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey PTs I mean planted tanks. I have asked some long time aquatic plant folks like the owner of greenleaf aquarium, the owner of Pfertz, the listowners and moderators at Arizona Aquatic Plants group, and some of the people with Aquatic Gardener's Assoc - they all seem to think the plants do best or at least extremely well in RO as long as you season the RO with RO Right by Kent or Equilibrium by Seachem (or DIY if you know how to replace the minerals). Seems to be working so far, my plants are suddenly not dying, they're growing, pearling and they don't have algae - since I switched to RO. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is PTs? > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > The other issue is that my plants don't want that well water. I am > trying to create these elaborate glorious planted tanks filled with > lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. According to the best > experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want the RO regardless of > radioactive alternatives:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with purigen to see if a > > test > > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but how about all that > > radioactive > > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into FrankenFish . . . > > HaHaHaHaHa!!!! > > Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45946	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"/Lainey

:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 3:20 PM, harry perry wrote: > I saw the pictures of your tank. I also visited your bird website. > Obviously you are a person who makes things work no matter what the > challenge. > > The plants in your tank are obviously very healthy. > > Nice job on the tank and the birds. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures of Blue Ram "situation" > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:11 PM > > > > Here are pictures of the saga so far - comments welcome! > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/ > 2049115566 /pic/ > > list > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45947	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"

Thanks, but, let's not get ahead of ourselves - a LOT can still go wrong! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 3:21 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Very fine Lainey but you're not going to get off so easy! > > Since you have a camera and surely know of to use it, we expect > more pictures of fry as they progress! <g> > > Very good job and I really like the BBS hatcher! > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures of Blue Ram "situation" > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:11 PM > > Here are pictures of the saga so far > > - comments welcome! > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ > pic/ > > > > list > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45948	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"

Beautiful tanks! What are you going to do with all the baby Rams? Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lainey Alexander To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:11 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures of Blue Ram "situation" Here are pictures of the saga so far - comments welcome! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ list Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45949	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"

It's very sweet that everyone thinks these little guys are going to make it - I'm not sure you'd feel that way if you could see them! Even with a magnifying glass I can't really tell what I'm looking at. A mosquito fell in the tank and the wigglers are positively dwarfed by it. But assuming nothing goes wrong (umm...), and I have babies, I have no idea what I'll do with them! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Cheryl Ellison wrote: > Beautiful tanks! What are you going to do with all the baby Rams? > > Cheryl from Seattle > http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:11 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures of Blue Ram "situation" > > Here are pictures of the saga so far - comments welcome! > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ > list > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45950	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Blue Ram "situation"

If you weren't all the way up in MS, I could help you with that problem! <G> Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pictures of Blue Ram "situation" > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:22 PM > It's very sweet that everyone thinks > these little guys are going to  > make it - I'm not sure you'd feel that way if you could see > them!  > Even with a magnifying glass I can't really tell what I'm > looking at.  > A mosquito fell in the tank and the wigglers are positively > dwarfed  > by it. > > But assuming nothing goes wrong (umm...), and I have > babies, I have  > no idea what I'll do with them! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Cheryl Ellison wrote: > > > Beautiful tanks! What are you going to do with all the > baby Rams? > > > > Cheryl from Seattle > > http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lainey Alexander > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:11 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Pictures of Blue Ram > "situation" > > > > Here are pictures of the saga so far - comments > welcome! > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ > > list > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45951	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey

? Lainey, I assume with your water, you at first, had problems with plants. After you got the water to a better state, how long did it take for these tanks to long like they do now? Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:51 PM > Cool.  I didn't know you were > referring to reconstituted RO. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 2:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > PTs I mean planted tanks. I have asked some long time > aquatic plant  > folks like the owner of greenleaf aquarium, the owner of > Pfertz, the  > listowners and moderators at Arizona Aquatic Plants group, > and some  > of the people with Aquatic Gardener's Assoc - they all seem > to think  > the plants do best or at least extremely well in RO as long > as you  > season the RO with RO Right by Kent or Equilibrium by > Seachem (or DIY  > if you know how to replace the minerals). > > Seems to be working so far, my plants are suddenly not > dying, they're  > growing, pearling and they don't have algae - since I > switched to RO. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is PTs? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > The other issue is that my plants don't want that well > water. I am > > trying to create these elaborate glorious planted > tanks filled with > > lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. According > to the best > > experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want the RO > regardless of > > radioactive alternatives:) > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@... > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with > purigen to see if a > > > test > > > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but > how about all that > > > radioactive > > > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into > FrankenFish . . . > > > HaHaHaHaHa!!!! > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY  > > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership"  > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45952	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Water softeners kill plants

Actually, with five or six planted tanks, I blush to admit that I went through three rounds of dead plants before I figured out what the problem was. They died so fast I knew I had a major problem, but just no idea what it was. Finally, I tracked down a couple of other people who had the same things happening to them with inverts (shrimp and snails) dying in a matter of minutes or hours and plants dying in a matter of a week or two. We all were using potassium chloride water softeners. The PC apparently does some osmotic shock thing where the plants and inverts actually dehydrate. I then talked to some of these aquatic plant experts and they confirmed that softened water will do this and that I should switch to RO for best results. Since I already had an RO filter it wasn't too hard, and I would say it took about three days for the plants to shape up. But like I say, I lost three full rounds before I worked all of this out. I do have injected CO2 and use plenty of Pfertz fertilizer and have 3 to 4 watts per gallon compact fluorescent lights. But the reason I wanted to show the pictures is that I wonder if the rams are breeding for me because of the jungle tank environment. The only reason I even found these eggs was because I couldn't find the rams! When I went looking for them, I saw they were up to something with the rock and then I saw them actually spawning on the rock. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:27 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > ? > > Lainey, I assume with your water, you at first, had problems > with plants. After you got the water to a better state, how long > did it take for these tanks to long like they do now? > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:51 PM > > Cool. I didn't know you were > > referring to reconstituted RO. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 2:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > PTs I mean planted tanks. I have asked some long time > > aquatic plant > > folks like the owner of greenleaf aquarium, the owner of > > Pfertz, the > > listowners and moderators at Arizona Aquatic Plants group, > > and some > > of the people with Aquatic Gardener's Assoc - they all seem > > to think > > the plants do best or at least extremely well in RO as long > > as you > > season the RO with RO Right by Kent or Equilibrium by > > Seachem (or DIY > > if you know how to replace the minerals). > > > > Seems to be working so far, my plants are suddenly not > > dying, they're > > growing, pearling and they don't have algae - since I > > switched to RO. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is PTs? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > The other issue is that my plants don't want that well > > water. I am > > > trying to create these elaborate glorious planted > > tanks filled with > > > lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. According > > to the best > > > experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want the RO > > regardless of > > > radioactive alternatives:) > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@... > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with > > purigen to see if a > > > > test > > > > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but > > how about all that > > > > radioactive > > > > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into > > FrankenFish . . . > > > > HaHaHaHaHa!!!! > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > > > ((((�> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT > > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY > > > the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><� > > > ��`�.��. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > My Membership" > > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, > > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail > > > option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45953	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Water softeners kill plants

Not to be "flip" Lainey, but with Rams, it's anyone's guess as to the "Y" of it.  I've been around fish for a long time but not plants and I am only learning now about them and the positive affect, besides beauty, that they can have on an aquarium.   For instance, I mentioned to you before that I too have well water which has a slight nitrate problem.  To that end some friends have advised me to get some Hornwort and just let it float around the top of the tank.  This plant will take care of the problem.  Finding some for me is the issue!   Just the fact that you had to "find them" tells me you have a nice, well-planted and balanced tank.  What you're doing, you're doing right!  As for the Rams? You have been given a gift, enjoy, enjoy and please, lots of photo's of the little buggers as they grow along.   Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water softeners kill plants > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:40 PM > Actually, with five or six planted > tanks, I blush to admit that I  > went through three rounds of dead plants before I figured > out what  > the problem was. They died so fast I knew I had a major > problem, but  > just no idea what it was. Finally, I tracked down a couple > of other  > people who had the same things happening to them with > inverts (shrimp  > and snails) dying in a matter of minutes or hours and > plants dying in  > a matter of a week or two. We all were using potassium > chloride water  > softeners. The PC apparently does some osmotic shock thing > where the  > plants and inverts actually dehydrate. > > I then talked to some of these aquatic plant experts and > they  > confirmed that softened water will do this and that I > should switch  > to RO for best results. Since I already had an RO filter it > wasn't  > too hard, and I would say it took about three days for the > plants to  > shape up. But like I say, I lost three full rounds before I > worked  > all of this out. I do have injected CO2 and use plenty of > Pfertz  > fertilizer and have 3 to 4 watts per gallon compact > fluorescent lights. > > But the reason I wanted to show the pictures is that I > wonder if the  > rams are breeding for me because of the jungle tank > environment. The  > only reason I even found these eggs was because I couldn't > find the  > rams! When I went looking for them, I saw they were up to > something  > with the rock and then I saw them actually spawning on the > rock. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:27 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > ? > > > > Lainey, I assume with your water, you at first, had > problems > > with plants. After you got the water to a better > state, how long > > did it take for these tanks to long like they do now? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:51 PM > > > Cool.  I didn't know you were > > > referring to reconstituted RO. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 2:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > PTs I mean planted tanks. I have asked some long > time > > > aquatic plant > > > folks like the owner of greenleaf aquarium, the > owner of > > > Pfertz, the > > > listowners and moderators at Arizona Aquatic > Plants group, > > > and some > > > of the people with Aquatic Gardener's Assoc - > they all seem > > > to think > > > the plants do best or at least extremely well in > RO as long > > > as you > > > season the RO with RO Right by Kent or > Equilibrium by > > > Seachem (or DIY > > > if you know how to replace the minerals). > > > > > > Seems to be working so far, my plants are > suddenly not > > > dying, they're > > > growing, pearling and they don't have algae - > since I > > > switched to RO. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Donna Ransome > wrote: > > > > > > > Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is > PTs? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs > cold/Lainey > > > > > > > > The other issue is that my plants don't want > that well > > > water. I am > > > > trying to create these elaborate glorious > planted > > > tanks filled with > > > > lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. > According > > > to the best > > > > experts I can find on the PTs, the plants > want the RO > > > regardless of > > > > radioactive alternatives:) > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@... > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering > it with > > > purigen to see if a > > > > > test > > > > > fish will survive may be a good idea > Lenny, but > > > how about all that > > > > > radioactive > > > > > stuff that's gonna turn these animals > into > > > FrankenFish . . . > > > > > HaHaHaHaHa!!!! > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > > ((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that > > > is NOT > > > > important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY > > > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > > <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking > on "Edit > > > My Membership" > > > > on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, > > > > which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail > > > > option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on > the group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45954	From: Lisa	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: 2 things i need to raise

Okay two things I need to post . First of all, I need to let you all know that I did move my tank weekend just gone. And aside form loosing 3 or 4 of the tiny guppy fry (they couldn't have been more then a day or so old) everyone made the trip safe and well. And they all seem to be relaxed now that they're back safe in their tank. It also gave me the chance to give the tank a thorough scrub of all the debris that had settled below the U/G filter plates over the last 12 months. And to properly tape the backdrop to the back of the tank so that it no longer looks bubbly or warped lol I managed to keep half of the original tank water, only needing to replace the top half of the water. Then did a PH test to find that it was sitting at a satisfactory 7 Now, onto the second topic I needed to raise. I was looking into my tank last night. Just enjoying watching them swim about. And I noticed with one of my female guppies, that she has a lump on her left hand side, about mid way down her side. To try and describe what it looks like Its only small, about the size of a sewing pin head. It's outer layer looks like a translucent dome, and underneath it is something white. She doesn't seem to be stressed about it at this stage, is swimming normally, is not rubbing against anything, and is eating normally. Could it maybe be an injury from transport? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45955	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill

Are you having a problem with starting planted tanks. Maybe I can help. Harry --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:27 PM   ? Lainey, I assume with your water, you at first, had problems with plants. After you got the water to a better state, how long did it take for these tanks to long like they do now? Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> wrote: > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:51 PM > Cool.  I didn't know you were > referring to reconstituted RO. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 2:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > PTs I mean planted tanks. I have asked some long time > aquatic plant  > folks like the owner of greenleaf aquarium, the owner of > Pfertz, the  > listowners and moderators at Arizona Aquatic Plants group, > and some  > of the people with Aquatic Gardener's Assoc - they all seem > to think  > the plants do best or at least extremely well in RO as long > as you  > season the RO with RO Right by Kent or Equilibrium by > Seachem (or DIY  > if you know how to replace the minerals). > > Seems to be working so far, my plants are suddenly not > dying, they're  > growing, pearling and they don't have algae - since I > switched to RO. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is PTs? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com  > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > The other issue is that my plants don't want that well > water. I am > > trying to create these elaborate glorious planted > tanks filled with > > lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. According > to the best > > experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want the RO > regardless of > > radioactive alternatives: ) > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it with > purigen to see if a > > > test > > > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, but > how about all that > > > radioactive > > > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into > FrankenFish . . . > > > HaHaHaHaHa!! !! > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY  > > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership"  > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest,  > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise

It could be a number of things... from an injury if you think you had anything that would injure it in that way... or it could be a cyst or tumor starting.. which either could be completely benign... or not... or it could be a cyst from a parasite. Look at the pictures on this page (hundreds of them), mainly concentrating on cysts, tumors and parasites to see if any of them match what you have. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html The link will take a little while to open, depending on your internet speed and on how busy are the Internet Archive's servers. Once the page has fully opened, scroll down through each section... DO NOT click the links under the Quick Navigation Menu as that will just cause the page to re-load. It's faster to grab the blue bar on the side and scroll down, or use your scroll wheel on your mouse. If you click on a picture, it will open up full size in another window/tab. Once you've identified you culprit, read over all of the columns and any links but also check out here since that page is a few years old and there may be better or more modern treatments. That page was the best health and disease site on the internet for many years but something happened and Pandora let the original FishPalace.org site shut down so the page is now saved on the Internet Archives Wayback Machine but it can no longer be updated. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 2 things i need to raise Okay two things I need to post . First of all, I need to let you all know that I did move my tank weekend just gone. And aside form loosing 3 or 4 of the tiny guppy fry (they couldn't have been more then a day or so old) everyone made the trip safe and well. And they all seem to be relaxed now that they're back safe in their tank. It also gave me the chance to give the tank a thorough scrub of all the debris that had settled below the U/G filter plates over the last 12 months. And to properly tape the backdrop to the back of the tank so that it no longer looks bubbly or warped lol I managed to keep half of the original tank water, only needing to replace the top half of the water. Then did a PH test to find that it was sitting at a satisfactory 7 Now, onto the second topic I needed to raise. I was looking into my tank last night. Just enjoying watching them swim about. And I noticed with one of my female guppies, that she has a lump on her left hand side, about mid way down her side. To try and describe what it looks like.Its only small, about the size of a sewing pin head. It's outer layer looks like a translucent dome, and underneath it is something white. She doesn't seem to be stressed about it at this stage, is swimming normally, is not rubbing against anything, and is eating normally. Could it maybe be an injury from transport? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45957	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill

Hi Harry,   The story is that I have a type of black algae growth that is easy to clean off and has responded a bit to HP treatment but never really cleared up.  In other words, unlike Elvis, it has NOT left the building!  However, others have advised to use Hornwort, floating, to combat this problem.  It seems that this plant will counter-act the nitrate which is in my well water to begin with.   You and I talked some time ago about live plants and I realized even then that I did not have near the light power to support them.  Besides, I have UG filters with power heads so I doubt rooted plants would have a chance. But I thank you for your interest.   Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 6:46 PM > Are you having a problem with > starting planted tanks. Maybe I can help. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:27 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > >   > > >     >       >       >       ? > > > > Lainey, I assume with your water, you at first, had > problems > > with plants.  After you got the water to a better > state, how long > > did it take for these tanks to long like they do now? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline > .net> wrote: > > > > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonline .net> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:51 PM > > > Cool.  I didn't know you were > > > referring to reconstituted RO. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 2:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > PTs I mean planted tanks. I have asked some long time > > > aquatic plant  > > > folks like the owner of greenleaf aquarium, the owner > of > > > Pfertz, the  > > > listowners and moderators at Arizona Aquatic Plants > group, > > > and some  > > > of the people with Aquatic Gardener's Assoc - they all > seem > > > to think  > > > the plants do best or at least extremely well in RO as > long > > > as you  > > > season the RO with RO Right by Kent or Equilibrium by > > > Seachem (or DIY  > > > if you know how to replace the minerals). > > > > > > Seems to be working so far, my plants are suddenly > not > > > dying, they're  > > > growing, pearling and they don't have algae - since I > > > switched to RO. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is PTs? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com  > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > > > The other issue is that my plants don't want that > well > > > water. I am > > > > trying to create these elaborate glorious > planted > > > tanks filled with > > > > lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. > According > > > to the best > > > > experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want > the RO > > > regardless of > > > > radioactive alternatives: ) > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@ > wmconnect. com > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it > with > > > purigen to see if a > > > > > test > > > > > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, > but > > > how about all that > > > > > radioactive > > > > > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into > > > FrankenFish . . . > > > > > HaHaHaHaHa!! !! > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying,  > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..>< > > > > ((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > > is NOT  > > > > important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY  > > > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > > <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of  > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit > > > My Membership"  > > > > on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest,  > > > > which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail  > > > > option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     >       > >     >     > > > > > > >   > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45958	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise

When I had something similar on a male guppy it was a swim bladder issue, and he didn't make it, sadly...hopefully it's not that - Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 7:03 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > It could be a number of things... from an injury if you think you had > anything that would injure it in that way... or it could be a cyst > or tumor > starting.. which either could be completely benign... or not... or > it could > be a cyst from a parasite. Look at the pictures on this page > (hundreds of > them), mainly concentrating on cysts, tumors and parasites to see > if any of > them match what you have. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/ > disease. > html > > The link will take a little while to open, depending on your > internet speed > and on how busy are the Internet Archive's servers. Once the page > has fully > opened, scroll down through each section... DO NOT click the links > under the > Quick Navigation Menu as that will just cause the page to re-load. > It's > faster to grab the blue bar on the side and scroll down, or use > your scroll > wheel on your mouse. If you click on a picture, it will open up > full size > in another window/tab. > > Once you've identified you culprit, read over all of the columns > and any > links but also check out here since that page is a few years old > and there > may be better or more modern treatments. That page was the best > health and > disease site on the internet for many years but something happened and > Pandora let the original FishPalace.org site shut down so the page > is now > saved on the Internet Archives Wayback Machine but it can no longer be > updated. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 2 things i need to raise > > Okay two things I need to post . > > First of all, I need to let you all know that I did move my tank > weekend > just gone. > And aside form loosing 3 or 4 of the tiny guppy fry (they couldn't > have been > more then a day or so old) everyone made the trip safe and well. > And they > all seem to be relaxed now that they're back safe in their tank. > > It also gave me the chance to give the tank a thorough scrub of all > the > debris that had settled below the U/G filter plates over the last > 12 months. > > And to properly tape the backdrop to the back of the tank so that > it no > longer looks bubbly or warped lol > > I managed to keep half of the original tank water, only needing to > replace > the top half of the water. Then did a PH test to find that it was > sitting at > a satisfactory 7 > > Now, onto the second topic I needed to raise. > I was looking into my tank last night. Just enjoying watching them > swim > about. > And I noticed with one of my female guppies, that she has a lump on > her left > hand side, about mid way down her side. > To try and describe what it looks like.Its only small, about the > size of a > sewing pin head. It's outer layer looks like a translucent dome, and > underneath it is something white. > She doesn't seem to be stressed about it at this stage, is swimming > normally, is not rubbing against anything, and is eating normally. > > Could it maybe be an injury from transport? > > Lisa > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45959	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill/again

I can't get a decent picture of my tanks however I think they look good, all heavily planted. I don't have unlimited resources so I make do. For lighting all I'm using is the hood that came with my tank. It is fluorescent but nothing special. I only buy plants that will grow with this light. Low light plants. Your right plants will not do well with your UGF. Algae never really "leaves the building" it sits and waits for us to get lazy. Excess nitrates can be dealt with several ways. Java Moss works also more frequent PWC. I buy my plants and put them into two of my tanks and then take clippings or divisions and put them in my plant grow out tank. A 10 gal. plant only tank.In the grow out tank, I break up Jobe's plant spikes and scatter them about. In the fish tanks I feed my plants with broken pieces of spike inserted under the plants into the gravel. The grow out tank feeds my other tanks with plants. If I see I have an algae problem starting I do a PWC and transfer some plants from my grow out tank to control the algae. This way it is all pretty much self sufficient without spending a lot of money. Hope this helps. Harry --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 7:06 PM   Hi Harry,   The story is that I have a type of black algae growth that is easy to clean off and has responded a bit to HP treatment but never really cleared up.  In other words, unlike Elvis, it has NOT left the building!  However, others have advised to use Hornwort, floating, to combat this problem.  It seems that this plant will counter-act the nitrate which is in my well water to begin with.   You and I talked some time ago about live plants and I realized even then that I did not have near the light power to support them.  Besides, I have UG filters with power heads so I doubt rooted plants would have a chance. But I thank you for your interest.   Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/ Bill > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 6:46 PM > Are you having a problem with > starting planted tanks. Maybe I can help. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:27 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > >   > > >     >       >       >       ? > > > > Lainey, I assume with your water, you at first, had > problems > > with plants.  After you got the water to a better > state, how long > > did it take for these tanks to long like they do now? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e > .net> wrote: > > > > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@optonlin e .net> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 3:51 PM > > > Cool.  I didn't know you were > > > referring to reconstituted RO. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 2:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > PTs I mean planted tanks. I have asked some long time > > > aquatic plant  > > > folks like the owner of greenleaf aquarium, the owner > of > > > Pfertz, the  > > > listowners and moderators at Arizona Aquatic Plants > group, > > > and some  > > > of the people with Aquatic Gardener's Assoc - they all > seem > > > to think  > > > the plants do best or at least extremely well in RO as > long > > > as you  > > > season the RO with RO Right by Kent or Equilibrium by > > > Seachem (or DIY  > > > if you know how to replace the minerals). > > > > > > Seems to be working so far, my plants are suddenly > not > > > dying, they're  > > > growing, pearling and they don't have algae - since I > > > switched to RO. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > Really? Huh, I never heard that. What is PTs? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com  > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:20 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > > > > > > > > The other issue is that my plants don't want that > well > > > water. I am > > > > trying to create these elaborate glorious > planted > > > tanks filled with > > > > lots of rare plants that really prefer RO. > According > > > to the best > > > > experts I can find on the PTs, the plants want > the RO > > > regardless of > > > > radioactive alternatives: ) > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > On Jan 17, 2010, at 4:53 AM, sevenspringss@ > wmconnect. com > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Filling a Rubbermaid tub and filtering it > with > > > purigen to see if a > > > > > test > > > > > fish will survive may be a good idea Lenny, > but > > > how about all that > > > > > radioactive > > > > > stuff that's gonna turn these animals into > > > FrankenFish . . . > > > > > HaHaHaHaHa!! !! > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying,  > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..>< > > > > ((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > > is NOT  > > > > important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > > message MODIFY  > > > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > > <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of  > > > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit > > > My Membership"  > > > > on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest,  > > > > which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail  > > > > option where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     >       > >     >     > > > > > > >   > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45960	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill

Bill, You can still use containers for root plants. 2" clay pots or those clear zip-loc food containers if you don't want the clay pot look. Fill these clear containers with the same gravel you have in your substrate and put them directly on the UGF plate and then mound up the moved gravel around them and they should blend in pretty good and keep the roots from getting into the UGF plates and keep the fish waste inside the container for feeding the plants. You could still vacuum your gravel all around the containers without worry of harming your plant's roots. If you use the clay pots, I've seen where folks will coat the clay pot with aquarium silicone and roll it in gravel so the clay pot isn't orange and instead matches the tank's substrate. I use containers in my goldfish tank since I did not want a thick substrate to minimize the work involved in vacuuming all the goldfish poop up, so now I have about 1/2" to 1" of gravel and then 2" clay pots for plants that need a deeper substrate and the small round zip-loc food containers for other plants. If there's a will, there's a way! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill Hi Harry,   The story is that I have a type of black algae growth that is easy to clean off and has responded a bit to HP treatment but never really cleared up.  In other words, unlike Elvis, it has NOT left the building!  However, others have advised to use Hornwort, floating, to combat this problem.  It seems that this plant will counter-act the nitrate which is in my well water to begin with.   You and I talked some time ago about live plants and I realized even then that I did not have near the light power to support them.  Besides, I have UG filters with power heads so I doubt rooted plants would have a chance. But I thank you for your interest.   Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 6:46 PM Are you having a problem with > starting planted tanks. Maybe I can help. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:27 PM > > Lainey, I assume with your water, you at first, had problems > > with plants.  After you got the water to a better state, how long > > did it take for these tanks to long like they do now? > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45961	From: harry perry	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill/Lenny

If there's a will, there's a way! ;-) That's the answer. Some of my plants came from a creek down the street. What's a few extra snails. If you want a planted tank there is really nothing stopping you. Harry --- On Sun, 1/17/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 8:52 PM   Bill, You can still use containers for root plants. 2" clay pots or those clear zip-loc food containers if you don't want the clay pot look. Fill these clear containers with the same gravel you have in your substrate and put them directly on the UGF plate and then mound up the moved gravel around them and they should blend in pretty good and keep the roots from getting into the UGF plates and keep the fish waste inside the container for feeding the plants. You could still vacuum your gravel all around the containers without worry of harming your plant's roots. If you use the clay pots, I've seen where folks will coat the clay pot with aquarium silicone and roll it in gravel so the clay pot isn't orange and instead matches the tank's substrate. I use containers in my goldfish tank since I did not want a thick substrate to minimize the work involved in vacuuming all the goldfish poop up, so now I have about 1/2" to 1" of gravel and then 2" clay pots for plants that need a deeper substrate and the small round zip-loc food containers for other plants. If there's a will, there's a way! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/ Bill Hi Harry,   The story is that I have a type of black algae growth that is easy to clean off and has responded a bit to HP treatment but never really cleared up.  In other words, unlike Elvis, it has NOT left the building!  However, others have advised to use Hornwort, floating, to combat this problem.  It seems that this plant will counter-act the nitrate which is in my well water to begin with.   You and I talked some time ago about live plants and I realized even then that I did not have near the light power to support them.  Besides, I have UG filters with power heads so I doubt rooted plants would have a chance. But I thank you for your interest.   Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/ Bill > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 6:46 PM Are you having a problem with > starting planted tanks. Maybe I can help. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:27 PM > > Lainey, I assume with your water, you at first, had problems > > with plants.  After you got the water to a better state, how long > > did it take for these tanks to long like they do now? > > > > Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45962	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill

I use polyester pillows. I want a richer substrate for certain plants like crypts and vallisneria, but I need something more sand like for my cichlids to sift through. I bought fluorite and the batting for a crib quilt. (Craft store item.) I cut the polyester into squares, fold them over and stuff them with fluorite and plant roots. Then I cover with my normal substrate and/or rocks. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill Bill, You can still use containers for root plants. 2" clay pots or those clear zip-loc food containers if you don't want the clay pot look. Fill these clear containers with the same gravel you have in your substrate and put them directly on the UGF plate and then mound up the moved gravel around them and they should blend in pretty good and keep the roots from getting into the UGF plates and keep the fish waste inside the container for feeding the plants. You could still vacuum your gravel all around the containers without worry of harming your plant's roots. If you use the clay pots, I've seen where folks will coat the clay pot with aquarium silicone and roll it in gravel so the clay pot isn't orange and instead matches the tank's substrate. I use containers in my goldfish tank since I did not want a thick substrate to minimize the work involved in vacuuming all the goldfish poop up, so now I have about 1/2" to 1" of gravel and then 2" clay pots for plants that need a deeper substrate and the small round zip-loc food containers for other plants. If there's a will, there's a way! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill Hi Harry, The story is that I have a type of black algae growth that is easy to clean off and has responded a bit to HP treatment but never really cleared up. In other words, unlike Elvis, it has NOT left the building! However, others have advised to use Hornwort, floating, to combat this problem. It seems that this plant will counter-act the nitrate which is in my well water to begin with. You and I talked some time ago about live plants and I realized even then that I did not have near the light power to support them. Besides, I have UG filters with power heads so I doubt rooted plants would have a chance. But I thank you for your interest. Bill --- On Sun, 1/17/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@ <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey/Bill > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 6:46 PM Are you having a problem with > starting planted tanks. Maybe I can help. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 1/17/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@ <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@ <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram eggs cold/Lainey > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 4:27 PM > > Lainey, I assume with your water, you at first, had problems > > with plants. After you got the water to a better state, how long > > did it take for these tanks to long like they do now? > > > > Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45963	From: Lisa	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise

The link didn't work for me Lenny. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It could be a number of things... from an injury if you think you had > anything that would injure it in that way... or it could be a cyst or tumor > starting.. which either could be completely benign... or not... or it could > be a cyst from a parasite. Look at the pictures on this page (hundreds of > them), mainly concentrating on cysts, tumors and parasites to see if any of > them match what you have. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. > html > > The link will take a little while to open, depending on your internet speed > and on how busy are the Internet Archive's servers. Once the page has fully > opened, scroll down through each section... DO NOT click the links under the > Quick Navigation Menu as that will just cause the page to re-load. It's > faster to grab the blue bar on the side and scroll down, or use your scroll > wheel on your mouse. If you click on a picture, it will open up full size > in another window/tab. > > Once you've identified you culprit, read over all of the columns and any > links but also check out here since that page is a few years old and there > may be better or more modern treatments. That page was the best health and > disease site on the internet for many years but something happened and > Pandora let the original FishPalace.org site shut down so the page is now > saved on the Internet Archives Wayback Machine but it can no longer be > updated. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 2 things i need to raise > > Okay two things I need to post . > > First of all, I need to let you all know that I did move my tank weekend > just gone. > And aside form loosing 3 or 4 of the tiny guppy fry (they couldn't have been > more then a day or so old) everyone made the trip safe and well. And they > all seem to be relaxed now that they're back safe in their tank. > > It also gave me the chance to give the tank a thorough scrub of all the > debris that had settled below the U/G filter plates over the last 12 months. > > And to properly tape the backdrop to the back of the tank so that it no > longer looks bubbly or warped lol > > I managed to keep half of the original tank water, only needing to replace > the top half of the water. Then did a PH test to find that it was sitting at > a satisfactory 7 > > > Now, onto the second topic I needed to raise. > I was looking into my tank last night. Just enjoying watching them swim > about. > And I noticed with one of my female guppies, that she has a lump on her left > hand side, about mid way down her side. > To try and describe what it looks like.Its only small, about the size of a > sewing pin head. It's outer layer looks like a translucent dome, and > underneath it is something white. > She doesn't seem to be stressed about it at this stage, is swimming > normally, is not rubbing against anything, and is eating normally. > > Could it maybe be an injury from transport? > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/17/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise

It looks like either Yahoo Group's or one of our email services broke the link. Whenever you get a long link that breaks, as you can see below, the ending "html" is on another line from the rest of the URL, you can open the email, then "Edit" it to take out the spaces and characters like > until the link is whole again. If you do not have an "Edit" option, then you can always act like you are going to reply to the email and then when the reply email opens up, you can edit the original email/link/etc. and then click the link. Then just close the reply without sending it. I fixed it again below, in my original reply, but I will also include a TinyURL which you can click to bring you to the long link, if it breaks again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 2 things i need to raise The link didn't work for me Lenny. Lisa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It could be a number of things... from an injury if you think you had > anything that would injure it in that way... or it could be a cyst or > tumor starting.. which either could be completely benign... or not... > or it could be a cyst from a parasite. Look at the pictures on this > page (hundreds of them), mainly concentrating on cysts, tumors and > parasites to see if any of them match what you have. > http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html Or http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > The link will take a little while to open, depending on your internet > speed and on how busy are the Internet Archive's servers. Once the > page has fully opened, scroll down through each section... DO NOT > click the links under the Quick Navigation Menu as that will just > cause the page to re-load. It's faster to grab the blue bar on the > side and scroll down, or use your scroll wheel on your mouse. If you > click on a picture, it will open up full size in another window/tab. > > Once you've identified you culprit, read over all of the columns and > any links but also check out here since that page is a few years old > and there may be better or more modern treatments. That page was the > best health and disease site on the internet for many years but > something happened and Pandora let the original FishPalace.org site > shut down so the page is now saved on the Internet Archives Wayback > Machine but it can no longer be updated. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 2 things i need to raise > > Okay two things I need to post . > > First of all, I need to let you all know that I did move my tank > weekend just gone. > And aside form loosing 3 or 4 of the tiny guppy fry (they couldn't > have been more then a day or so old) everyone made the trip safe and > well. And they all seem to be relaxed now that they're back safe in their tank. > > It also gave me the chance to give the tank a thorough scrub of all > the debris that had settled below the U/G filter plates over the last 12 months. > > And to properly tape the backdrop to the back of the tank so that it > no longer looks bubbly or warped lol > > I managed to keep half of the original tank water, only needing to > replace the top half of the water. Then did a PH test to find that it > was sitting at a satisfactory 7 > > > Now, onto the second topic I needed to raise. > I was looking into my tank last night. Just enjoying watching them > swim about. > And I noticed with one of my female guppies, that she has a lump on > her left hand side, about mid way down her side. > To try and describe what it looks like.Its only small, about the size > of a sewing pin head. It's outer layer looks like a translucent dome, > and underneath it is something white. > She doesn't seem to be stressed about it at this stage, is swimming > normally, is not rubbing against anything, and is eating normally. > > Could it maybe be an injury from transport? > > Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45965	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Some Fishy Cartoons

http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/T/Tropical_Fish.asp http://tinyurl.com/ydoxg4k \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45966	From: rosette55@webtv.net	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Mystery snails/ Amber

Thanks Amber! Happy Fishes, Samantha

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45967	From: walkswithshelties	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

I just got this filter via Freecycle. I'm missing the original lift tubes and whatever part(s) they plugged into. When I hang a few standard-size lift tubes in the filter box, they immediately siphon out the box. This implies that I'm missing some part(s). It's an ancient, well-built monster of a power filter - I figure it's at least 25 years old, maybe more, but it easily outperforms my two Whisper power filters. I'm wondering if anyone has a manual or experience with these. I can't find anything online about them of use. With the power it displayed, I'd like to use it for a large species tank. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45968	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

You have gotten one of the very best ever! But parts could be a problem. I suggest checking ebay, craigslist. If the filter runs now give the motor a good cleaning and remember to lightly oil once in a while. This thing will give you many years of service and "filtering" that you will not believe! Use blue bond poly pads and cut your own to size from Doctors Foster and Smith also you may find regular foam blocks that will fit the box. The other thing is cleaning, with the water that this thing will filter I strongly suggest you clean it once a week without fail. Depending on the model you have it will move 350 to 600 gallons per hour. Enjoy! You have a "real" power filter. Bill --- On Mon, 1/18/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> wrote: > From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Supreme Aquamaster PME-A > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 12:07 PM > I just got this filter via Freecycle. > I'm missing the original lift tubes and whatever part(s) > they plugged into. When I hang a few standard-size lift > tubes in the filter box, they immediately siphon out the > box. This implies that I'm missing some part(s). > > It's an ancient, well-built monster of a power filter - I > figure it's at least 25 years old, maybe more, but it easily > outperforms my two Whisper power filters. I'm wondering if > anyone has a manual or experience with these. I can't find > anything online about them of use. > > With the power it displayed, I'd like to use it for a large > species tank. > > Thanks. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45969	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

Danner took over Supreme a while back, from what I remember and then Danner came out with the Skilter HOB filters that were a cheap knock-off of the Aquamaster. Try their website or contact them to see if they might have a PDF version of the owner's manual or a schematic for your model that they could just email you. You can still find some parts from a few aquarium supply websites, eBay, etc., once you know what you need. http://www.dannermfg.com/ Contact Info. DANNER MANUFACTURING, INC. 160 Oval Drive Islandia, N.Y. 11749-1489 Phone: (631) 234-5261 Fax: (631) 234-4778 e-mail: Sales@... OUR HISTORY Danner Mfg. Inc. has been in business for more than 50 years. The brand names which we manufacture and market are: PondMaster, ProLine, Supreme, Magnetic-Drive, Hampton Water Gardens, Cover-Care, Pool-Care, Spa-Care, Skilter, AquaMaster, AquaKing, SuperKing, HeetMaster, DynaMaster, Challenger, Ovation, MainStream and BioMatrix. (END SNIPS) Good luck. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Supreme Aquamaster PME-A You have gotten one of the very best ever! But parts could be a problem. I suggest checking ebay, craigslist. If the filter runs now give the motor a good cleaning and remember to lightly oil once in a while. This thing will give you many years of service and "filtering" that you will not believe! Use blue bond poly pads and cut your own to size from Doctors Foster and Smith also you may find regular foam blocks that will fit the box. The other thing is cleaning, with the water that this thing will filter I strongly suggest you clean it once a week without fail. Depending on the model you have it will move 350 to 600 gallons per hour. Enjoy! You have a "real" power filter. Bill --- On Mon, 1/18/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> wrote: > From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Supreme Aquamaster PME-A > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 12:07 PM I just got this filter via > Freecycle. > I'm missing the original lift tubes and whatever part(s) they plugged > into. When I hang a few standard-size lift tubes in the filter box, > they immediately siphon out the box. This implies that I'm missing > some part(s). > > It's an ancient, well-built monster of a power filter - I figure it's > at least 25 years old, maybe more, but it easily outperforms my two > Whisper power filters. I'm wondering if anyone has a manual or > experience with these. I can't find anything online about them of use. > > With the power it displayed, I'd like to use it for a large species > tank. > > Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

Oh yeah... I almost forgot. I did see this eBay listing with a different model but maybe the seller would scan a copy of the owner's manual and send it to you... maybe for a small PayPal payment... which would hopefully show all the same parts, except yours might be a different size... or maybe not. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=330330444789&Category=463 10&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2 If link breaks, just go to eBay.com and search for Supreme Aquamaster and you'll find this listing for this model 250 which this seller lists as NEW so there should be an owners manual in the box. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 11:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Supreme Aquamaster PME-A You have gotten one of the very best ever! But parts could be a problem. I suggest checking ebay, craigslist. If the filter runs now give the motor a good cleaning and remember to lightly oil once in a while. This thing will give you many years of service and "filtering" that you will not believe! Use blue bond poly pads and cut your own to size from Doctors Foster and Smith also you may find regular foam blocks that will fit the box. The other thing is cleaning, with the water that this thing will filter I strongly suggest you clean it once a week without fail. Depending on the model you have it will move 350 to 600 gallons per hour. Enjoy! You have a "real" power filter. Bill --- On Mon, 1/18/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> wrote: > From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Supreme Aquamaster PME-A > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 12:07 PM I just got this filter via > Freecycle. > I'm missing the original lift tubes and whatever part(s) they plugged > into. When I hang a few standard-size lift tubes in the filter box, > they immediately siphon out the box. This implies that I'm missing > some part(s). > > It's an ancient, well-built monster of a power filter - I figure it's > at least 25 years old, maybe more, but it easily outperforms my two > Whisper power filters. I'm wondering if anyone has a manual or > experience with these. I can't find anything online about them of use. > > With the power it displayed, I'd like to use it for a large species > tank. > > Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45971	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

Gregg, I think I have one of those around here still. I'll look for it and let you know what it may need. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 12:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Supreme Aquamaster PME-A You have gotten one of the very best ever! But parts could be a problem. I suggest checking ebay, craigslist. If the filter runs now give the motor a good cleaning and remember to lightly oil once in a while. This thing will give you many years of service and "filtering" that you will not believe! Use blue bond poly pads and cut your own to size from Doctors Foster and Smith also you may find regular foam blocks that will fit the box. The other thing is cleaning, with the water that this thing will filter I strongly suggest you clean it once a week without fail. Depending on the model you have it will move 350 to 600 gallons per hour. Enjoy! You have a "real" power filter. Bill --- On Mon, 1/18/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> wrote: > From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Supreme Aquamaster PME-A > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 12:07 PM > I just got this filter via Freecycle. > I'm missing the original lift tubes and whatever part(s) > they plugged into. When I hang a few standard-size lift > tubes in the filter box, they immediately siphon out the > box. This implies that I'm missing some part(s). > > It's an ancient, well-built monster of a power filter - I > figure it's at least 25 years old, maybe more, but it easily > outperforms my two Whisper power filters. I'm wondering if > anyone has a manual or experience with these. I can't find > anything online about them of use. > > With the power it displayed, I'd like to use it for a large > species tank. > > Thanks. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45972	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Yo Lainey?

You're quite up there today!  What's the latest on the "children"? Are they running you ragged? Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45973	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Ya, I just don't want to monopolize the list! Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they are both Eheims and both set for 89. However, so far so good... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > You're quite up there today! What's the latest > on the "children"? Are they running you ragged? > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45974	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an inspection. It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while your sleeping. Bill --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM > Ya, I just don't want to monopolize > the list! > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they > are both  > Eheims and both set for 89. > > However, so far so good... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > You're quite up there today!  What's the latest > > on the "children"? Are they running you ragged? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45975	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Dang... did Rocky take over Bill's brain? We know he didn't take over Bill's body... nor mine! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? You're quite up there today!  What's the latest on the "children"? Are they running you ragged? Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45976	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

I wouldn't set them at 89 but instead at 86 or whatever it was that Ray recommended. Just in case they do keep raising the temps sufficiently, you want their thermostats to shut off at the temp that Ray recommended. You might have to raise the ambient temperature (room temp) a couple of degrees to get the heaters to raise things these next few degrees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 12:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? Ya, I just don't want to monopolize the list! Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they are both Eheims and both set for 89. However, so far so good... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > You're quite up there today! What's the latest on the "children"? Are > they running you ragged? > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45977	From: john Lewis	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject:

Hello:     Turbo snails are good and blue claw hermits are good starters.  Peppermint shrimp are okay to.    Good Luck!!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45978	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and none of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New England. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > inspection. It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while > your sleeping. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM > > Ya, I just don't want to monopolize > > the list! > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they > > are both > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest > > > on the "children"? Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45979	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

OOH OK. So, apparently the thermostats are just off a few degrees... or six, if when you set them at 86, they only heated to 80 and at 89, they are only heating to 82... it sounds like the thermostat could be off by 6F to 7F, but it could also be affected by the room temp. What size heaters are these.. in watts? I realize you have two Eheim heaters but what are their wattage and these are on a 10G tank.. right? If they are both only 25 Watt heaters, that should be plenty enough to raise the water temp up 7 degrees to 85F since your room temp is 78F. Now, if your room temp was down at 68F you would likely need more than 50 Watts of heating to raise the tank temp to 85F. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and none of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New England. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an inspection. > It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while > your sleeping. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM Ya, I just don't want to > > monopolize the list! > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they are both > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest on the "children"? > > > Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45980	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

Gregg, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "standard-size" lift tubes. Which filter do your lift tubes belong to? There could be a number of reasons why the filter box is getting pumped out in seconds, not the least of which is the rated flow of the filter as Bill suggested. While slower-rated models (like the 350 GPH) use two lift tube, faster, more powerful pumps (like the 600 GPH) require up to four or five. Then, there are models which use a double-wide lift tube which really is equivilent to three normal Supreme lift tubes and so on. One other possibily is that you're missing the bottom plate that sits about 1/2" off the bottom of the filter box and holds the filter pad. This in itself would slow the flow down as the water would be drawn through it. AquaMasters and AquaKings are all I used to use many years ago on my larger tanks. Eugene Danner first produced these Aquamasters some 40 years ago, after buying out Add Life (in the 1960's), a pioneer in Power Filters. I have about 10 Add Life PF's and they were almost as good as the Supremes -- They used many of the same components including the impeller/pump & motor. Yes, they do a fantastic job, but with nearly 100 tanks it would be impossible to pay the electric bill for them so I retired most of them. I still have a number of new in-the-box Supreme filters and can snail mail you the instruction and parts/diagram list if you need it. I may have a few extra lift tubes too, although they'd be used. I wouldn't want to part out any of the parts from the new filters though. BTW, the lift tubes do not plug into anything, but hang suspended over the hanging lip of the filter. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45981	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

I think the heaters are both 100 watts. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OOH OK. So, apparently the thermostats are just off a few > degrees... or > six, if when you set them at 86, they only heated to 80 and at 89, > they are > only heating to 82... it sounds like the thermostat could be off by > 6F to > 7F, but it could also be affected by the room temp. What size > heaters are > these.. in watts? I realize you have two Eheim heaters but what are > their > wattage and these are on a 10G tank.. right? If they are both only > 25 Watt > heaters, that should be plenty enough to raise the water temp up 7 > degrees > to 85F since your room temp is 78F. Now, if your room temp was down > at 68F > you would likely need more than 50 Watts of heating to raise the > tank temp > to 85F. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and > none of > them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased > within the > past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only get 79 or > 80 in the > tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in the house to help > but I > just can't go over 78 degrees here in New England. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > inspection. > > It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while > > your sleeping. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM Ya, I just don't want to > > > monopolize the list! > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they are > both > > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest on the > "children"? > > > > Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45982	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

YO Adrian !!! <g></HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45983	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Watch that the heaters don't creep up to 89 over night. Check the temp as the last thing you do before you go to bed and adjust them down if necessary. Check the temp when you first get up also. Funny thing about heaters -- they seem to almost always stick on at night (LOL). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45984	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Lainey, I am surprised that no one yet has stepped forth with a dirty little secret about these heaters. Do not believe the numbers on the adjustment. Many of those types of heaters I have gone through just are not calibrated properly. I consider the numbers as an initial guide (some are closer than others, it probably varies by lot) and then as decoration thereafter. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and none of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New England. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > inspection. It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while > your sleeping. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM > > Ya, I just don't want to monopolize > > the list! > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they > > are both > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest > > > on the "children"? Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45985	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

A dumb remark here on my part but wouldn't to be easier to just switch with one of your good ones running in another tank? Or is this exactly what you're saying, every heater you own has messed up contacts? Please forgive, I should be doing better here, I'm on my fourth coffee! Bill --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 2:39 PM > What I tried to explain is that I > have six or seven heaters, and none  > of them have working thermostats, even though they were > purchased  > within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to > 86 I only  > get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised > the heat in  > the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here > in New  > England. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on > those heaters it  > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure > without an  > > inspection. It would do you well to keep a very close > eye on them.  > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have > Ram Omelet up  > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do > with them while  > > your sleeping. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM > > > Ya, I just don't want to monopolize > > > the list! > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even > though they > > > are both > > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > You're quite up there today!  What's > the latest > > > > on the "children"? Are they running you > ragged? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45986	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

Gregg, In addition to what Ray just told you, the lift tubes that he are talking about are about 1". That's inside diameter. I'm sorry, I forgot to include that in my first go around. Bill --- On Mon, 1/18/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Supreme Aquamaster PME-A > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 3:06 PM > > > Gregg,  I'm not exactly sure what you mean by > "standard-size" lift tubes.  > Which filter do your lift tubes belong to?  There > could be a number of > reasons why the filter box is getting pumped out in > seconds, not the least of > which is the rated flow of the filter as Bill > suggested.  While slower-rated > models (like the 350 GPH) use two lift tube, faster, more > powerful pumps (like > the 600 GPH) require up to four or five.  Then, there > are models which use > a double-wide lift tube which really is equivilent to three > normal Supreme > lift tubes and so on. > > One other possibily is that you're missing the bottom plate > that sits about > 1/2" off the bottom of the filter box and holds the filter > pad.  This in > itself would slow the flow down as the water would be drawn > through it. > > AquaMasters and AquaKings are all I used to use many years > ago on my larger > tanks.  Eugene Danner first produced these Aquamasters > some 40 years ago, > after buying out Add Life (in the 1960's), a pioneer in > Power Filters.  I > have about 10 Add Life PF's and they were almost as good as > the Supremes -- > They used many of the same components including the > impeller/pump & motor.  > Yes, they do a fantastic job, but with nearly 100 tanks it > would be impossible > to pay the electric bill for them so I retired most > of  them.  I still have > a number of new in-the-box Supreme filters and can snail > mail you the > instruction and parts/diagram list if you need it.  I > may have a few extra lift > tubes too, although they'd be used.  I wouldn't want > to part out any of the > parts from the new filters though.  BTW, the lift > tubes do not plug into > anything, but hang suspended over the hanging lip of the > filter.  Ray  > > </HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45987	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Ya-------------and he has one coming for that! Bill --- On Mon, 1/18/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 3:11 PM > > > > YO Adrian !!! > > <g></HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

There should be something on them to indicate their wattage so you can be sure. Guessing the size of a heater is not a good thing, IMO. If they are both 100W, then something is definitely wrong with them and I would be very careful with using them since their thermostats are obviously not working properly. This could result in one or both of them getting stuck in the ON position and you would have a fish fry boil on your hands. 5 Watts per gallon (50 Watts on a 10G) is usually more than sufficient for most folks to raise the tank temperature and with your room temp being 78F, you should not need more than that either... 3 Watts per gallon would probably suffice. I've never used more than two 25 Watt heaters on a 10G tank and that was raising the tank temp from a room temp of 72F up to tropical temps (around 80F). In fact, in reading my blog article on my heater experiment, a 50W heater raised a 10G tank from 72F to 82F in just 5.5 hours and then up to 84F in just another four hours so with your room temp being 78F, you shouldn't need more than 50W of heater... or two 25W heaters. Below my sig, there's a long snip from my blog article on the experiment I did on a 10G tank to show how much the temp would change with a failed heater... in either the stuck ON or stuck OFF position. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) 11/29/2006 - ~4:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I just filled the 10G with cold tap water at 64F. Room Temperature in my kitchen is 75F. It's 3:55pm CST. I'll report back in an hour or two. When it assumes room temperature, then I'll put in a heater, raise it to 80F and see how fast it cools down back to room temp also. This will also show what happens when it gets warm during the day and cooler at night in a home... usually.... to show what happens to a 10G temperature range without a heater. I know physics dictates that a 55G would take a lot longer to change temperature up or down but someone with an empty 55G would have to do that test. 11/29/2006 - ~5:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I took a temperature reading after one hour and it had already started to rise a little. One thing I thought of is that I do not have a filter running on this tank which will make the temp change more slowly then on a tank with water agitation so this experiment will actually show that an actual tank will change temperature even more quickly due to the water agitation and the constant change of water on the glass surfaces and top surface area that are exposed to the different room temperature. It's kind of how a convection oven cooks a lot faster than a regular oven because of the circulating air keeping constantly HOT air on the surface of the food instead of a slight buffer zone with a slightly lower temperature. My two hour temperature readings will be posted shortly. 11/29/2006 - ~6:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - OK. It's 5:55pm CST, two hours later and the tank has risen from 64F to 66F, two degrees Fahrenheit. From what I remember in science class a long time ago, water will cool faster than it will warm given identical applied temperature variations so if it is warming up by 1F per hour, it would cool down even faster, in the event of a failed heater stuck in the off position. The reason water cools down faster is because of evaporation when the water is warmer than the air surroundings. When water is warmer than the ambient air, water releases the heat via evaporation. This results in steam or fog when the difference is very large but there is still evaporation even when the difference is very little, which is why you get condensation on the cover glass of your tanks. Ambient air does not "evaporate" into the water, it just slowly changes raises the temperature. Whew. I can't believe I still remember some of these physics, chemistry and earth science basics. Reply: MjRyan - (quoting)"goldlenny (11/29/2006) If your temp only went down 2F in a day and a half, then your room temp was only 2F lower than your tank temp. I promise you a 10G tank will assume room temperature within a couple of hours of losing the heater. I have an empty 10G on my kitchen counter so I'll do the science right now and post my results in this thread." In the sense you talk about, your right, it isn't really important... I am NOT worried about the temp dropping. but wait until one of your heaters mal's and stays on overnight while your sleeping. Your fish will be at the top floating from the hot tub they didn't enjoy. Using a 1/2 rec. watt heater and that problem is eliminated as it wont have enough power to heat the whole tank. Good Test Lenny Back to GoldLenny posts: 11/29/2006 - ~11:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I had to run out for a few hours but I just checked the temperature at 10:55 p.m., seven hours since setting this experiment up and the temperature was up to 70F, a full SIX degrees Fahrenheit rise in seven hours. The 1F per hour rise is slowing down, as I suspected it would, as it approaches temperature equalization. I'm heading to sleep in a little while so I'll check it again in the morning. 11/30/2006 - ~7:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - Some time in the middle of the night, the tank assumed room temperature of 72F since that is what both were when I woke up this morning. I forgot to post it here first thing though. I'm now putting a 50W heater in the 10G test tank and I'll see how long it takes to raise to 80F. EDIT - I forgot I had a 10G HOB filter not being used so I just added it to the test tank too so now I'll be able to get more accurate test results on how long to heat up and cool down with a broken heater. As of 10:30 a.m. CST, the tank was 72F still (since I just put the heater in it) and I have the heater turned all the way up to the highest temperature to see how hot it will get and how fast. 11/30/2006 - 11:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - At 11:00 a.m. CST, just 1/2 hour after putting the 50W heater in the 10G tank, the temp has risen from 72F to 74F. That would be considered a huge jump if the tank had fish in it. This just gives you an idea of how fast a heater will heat up a tank. I knew once I added the filter system, things become far more dynamic over a stagnant tank. I'll report back again later in about 2 hours. Wish I would have done this on a weekend where I could monitor things hourly but it still shows just how fast a 10G tank can change temps when a heater fails. 11/30/2006 - 12:00 Noon - GoldLenny - At 12:00 noon CST, just 1.5 hours after putting the heater in the test 10G tank, the temp is up to 77F, 5 degrees F in just 1.5 hours. And the heater is still on so I'll see just how hot it will make the water before it peaks out, then I'll let it cool down again to see how fast it cools down with the filter system now running on the tank. 11/30/2006 - 4:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 4:00 p.m. CST, it's up to 82F. That's a 10F increase in 5.5 hours with the heater "stuck" on the ON position (since I have the thermostat all the way up). I'm not sure how much higher it will go but I'll check in again in a couple of hours and then turn the heater off to see how fast it cools back down to room temp. 11/30/2006 - 7:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - At 7:00 p.m., the temp was up to 84F and that is probably as high as it will get since I think that is what the 50W heater will do to a 10G tank, if I'm not mistaken. I'm going to wait until 8 p.m. to see if it goes up any higher and then turn off the heater to see how fast it cools off. The key here is that a malfunctioning heater or thermostat stuck in the ON position will heat up your tank from 72F to 84F, 12 degrees F, in just 8 hours. That's probably enough to seriously stress out most fish. 11/30/2006 - 8:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 8:00 p.m. - The temp was still at 84F, which I think is the max temp from this 50W heater in a 10G tank, so I unplugged the heater. I'll check temp every hour till I go to sleep tonight. HEATER UNPLUGGED SIMULATING HEATER FAILURE 11/30/2006 - 10:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 10:00 p.m. CST - Temp is down to 82F, so it's dropping at 1F per hour in the first two hours. 11/30/2006 - Midnight - GoldLenny - Midnight CST - Temp is down to 80F so it has been steadily dropping 1F per hour with the heater off. This means if you have a heater failure and it got stuck in the ON position, your tank would get very warm, very fast at 1.5F per hour. If the heater failed in the OFF position, your tank would cool down at the rate of 1F per hour. Either of these scenarios would be very stressful, if not catastrophic to a 10G tank. I guess I'll be looking at getting a couple of 25W heaters in the near future for my 10G tank. The larger the tank, the less volatile the temperature variation (at least according to basic laws of physics) but the value of stock in a larger tank is a lot more money so it is even more important to keep them stable as well. 12/01/2006 - 8:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - 12 hours after turning off the heater - Temp was down to 72F, 14F degrees lower than it was when the heater was turned up all the way, in just 12 hours. CONCLUSION - A malfunctioning 50W heater on a 10G tank could be catastrophic whether it fails in the ON or OFF position. Either event leaves your tank rapidly changing the temperature by 1F or more per hour, until it reaches room temperature or the maximum temperature that the heater can attain, either of which are very stressful to most fish. This type of event could lead to an Ick outbreak, a faltering immune system (causing many other health issues) and/or DEATH. Earlier in the prelude to the experiment, I talked about using two 25W heaters instead of one 50W heater and now you know why. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? I think the heaters are both 100 watts. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > OOH OK. So, apparently the thermostats are just off a few degrees... > or six, if when you set them at 86, they only heated to 80 and at 89, > they are only heating to 82... it sounds like the thermostat could be > off by 6F to 7F, but it could also be affected by the room temp. What > size heaters are these.. in watts? I realize you have two Eheim > heaters but what are their wattage and these are on a 10G tank.. > right? If they are both only > 25 Watt > heaters, that should be plenty enough to raise the water temp up 7 > degrees to 85F since your room temp is 78F. Now, if your room temp was > down at 68F you would likely need more than 50 Watts of heating to > raise the tank temp to 85F. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and none > of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased > within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only > get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in > the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New > England. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > inspection. > > It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while > > your sleeping. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM Ya, I just don't want to > > > monopolize the list! > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they are > both > > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest on the > "children"? > > > > Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45989	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

I did suggest to Lainey to bring them back to the LFS -- since they're only 3 months old, and Eheim Jager warranties them for 1 year for workmanship and materials. They sure seem defective to me, even if the calibrations are off. There should be no problem at all in boosting the temperature with two 100 Watt heaters in a 10 gallon tank (IF they're 100 Watt heaters). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45990	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

What about the thermometers that you stick on the glass - are those more reliable? That is what I am going by. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I am surprised that no one yet has stepped forth with a dirty > little secret > about these heaters. Do not believe the numbers on the adjustment. > Many of > those types of heaters I have gone through just are not calibrated > properly. > I consider the numbers as an initial guide (some are closer than > others, it > probably varies by lot) and then as decoration thereafter. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and none > of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased > within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only > get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in > the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New > England. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > > inspection. It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while > > your sleeping. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM > > > Ya, I just don't want to monopolize > > > the list! > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they > > > are both > > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest > > > > on the "children"? Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45991	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Yes, this is what I'm saying, all the heaters I own are not doing what they say on their thermostats. I took the two best in the house and put both in the fry tank. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:33 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > A dumb remark here on my part but wouldn't to be > easier to just switch with one of your good ones running > in another tank? > > Or is this exactly what you're saying, every heater > you own has messed up contacts? Please forgive, I should be > doing better here, I'm on my fourth coffee! > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 2:39 PM > > What I tried to explain is that I > > have six or seven heaters, and none > > of them have working thermostats, even though they were > > purchased > > within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to > > 86 I only > > get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised > > the heat in > > the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here > > in New > > England. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on > > those heaters it > > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure > > without an > > > inspection. It would do you well to keep a very close > > eye on them. > > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have > > Ram Omelet up > > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do > > with them while > > > your sleeping. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM > > > > Ya, I just don't want to monopolize > > > > the list! > > > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even > > though they > > > > are both > > > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's > > the latest > > > > > on the "children"? Are they running you > > ragged? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45992	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Lainey,   I think ya forgot to mention in here, "What you going by now"? On the glass works for me with a spot check of an old swimming pool thermometer------just to double check.   Bill --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 4:05 PM What about the thermometers that you stick on the glass - are those  more reliable? That is what I am going by. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I am surprised that no one yet has stepped forth with a dirty  > little secret > about these heaters. Do not believe the numbers on the adjustment.  > Many of > those types of heaters I have gone through just are not calibrated  > properly. > I consider the numbers as an initial guide (some are closer than  > others, it > probably varies by lot) and then as decoration thereafter. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com  > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and none > of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased > within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only > get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in > the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New > England. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > > inspection. It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while > > your sleeping. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...>  > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM > > > Ya, I just don't want to monopolize > > > the list! > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they > > > are both > > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest > > > > on the "children"? Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45993	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

OK, one heater is 100w and the other is 50w - and now the temp is at 84 so let me see if I can get it to stay there. The reason I am not pursuing the defective heater thing yet is because I have three brands of heaters now, and they all don't work with regard to the thermostat, so it seems like getting replacements of the same brands is not going to help. I need the Rolls Royce of heaters, whatever that is. The heaters themselves do work, just not the thermostats. I think maybe like some of you are saying, this is just the nature of the beast. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > There should be something on them to indicate their wattage so you > can be > sure. Guessing the size of a heater is not a good thing, IMO. > > If they are both 100W, then something is definitely wrong with them > and I > would be very careful with using them since their thermostats are > obviously > not working properly. This could result in one or both of them getting > stuck in the ON position and you would have a fish fry boil on your > hands. > 5 Watts per gallon (50 Watts on a 10G) is usually more than > sufficient for > most folks to raise the tank temperature and with your room temp > being 78F, > you should not need more than that either... 3 Watts per gallon would > probably suffice. I've never used more than two 25 Watt heaters on > a 10G > tank and that was raising the tank temp from a room temp of 72F up to > tropical temps (around 80F). In fact, in reading my blog article on my > heater experiment, a 50W heater raised a 10G tank from 72F to 82F > in just > 5.5 hours and then up to 84F in just another four hours so with > your room > temp being 78F, you shouldn't need more than 50W of heater... or > two 25W > heaters. > > Below my sig, there's a long snip from my blog article on the > experiment I > did on a 10G tank to show how much the temp would change with a failed > heater... in either the stuck ON or stuck OFF position. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > 11/29/2006 - ~4:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I just filled the 10G with > cold tap > water at 64F. Room Temperature in my kitchen is 75F. It's 3:55pm > CST. I'll > report back in an hour or two. When it assumes room temperature, > then I'll > put in a heater, raise it to 80F and see how fast it cools down > back to room > temp also. This will also show what happens when it gets warm > during the day > and cooler at night in a home... usually.... to show what happens > to a 10G > temperature range without a heater. I know physics dictates that a > 55G would > take a lot longer to change temperature up or down but someone with > an empty > 55G would have to do that test. > > 11/29/2006 - ~5:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I took a temperature reading > after one > hour and it had already started to rise a little. One thing I > thought of is > that I do not have a filter running on this tank which will make > the temp > change more slowly then on a tank with water agitation so this > experiment > will actually show that an actual tank will change temperature even > more > quickly due to the water agitation and the constant change of water > on the > glass surfaces and top surface area that are exposed to the > different room > temperature. It's kind of how a convection oven cooks a lot faster > than a > regular oven because of the circulating air keeping constantly HOT > air on > the surface of the food instead of a slight buffer zone with a > slightly > lower temperature. My two hour temperature readings will be posted > shortly. > > 11/29/2006 - ~6:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - OK. It's 5:55pm CST, two > hours later > and the tank has risen from 64F to 66F, two degrees Fahrenheit. > From what I > remember in science class a long time ago, water will cool faster > than it > will warm given identical applied temperature variations so if it > is warming > up by 1F per hour, it would cool down even faster, in the event of > a failed > heater stuck in the off position. > > The reason water cools down faster is because of evaporation when > the water > is warmer than the air surroundings. When water is warmer than the > ambient > air, water releases the heat via evaporation. This results in steam > or fog > when the difference is very large but there is still evaporation > even when > the difference is very little, which is why you get condensation on > the > cover glass of your tanks. Ambient air does not "evaporate" into > the water, > it just slowly changes raises the temperature. > > Whew. I can't believe I still remember some of these physics, > chemistry and > earth science basics. > > Reply: > > MjRyan - (quoting)"goldlenny (11/29/2006) If your temp only went > down 2F in > a day and a half, then your room temp was only 2F lower than your > tank temp. > I promise you a 10G tank will assume room temperature within a > couple of > hours of losing the heater. I have an empty 10G on my kitchen > counter so > I'll do the science right now and post my results in this thread." > > In the sense you talk about, your right, it isn't really > important... I am > NOT worried about the temp dropping. but wait until one of your > heaters > mal's and stays on overnight while your sleeping. Your fish will be > at the > top floating from the hot tub they didn't enjoy. Using a 1/2 rec. watt > heater and that problem is eliminated as it wont have enough power > to heat > the whole tank. > > Good Test Lenny > > Back to GoldLenny posts: > > 11/29/2006 - ~11:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I had to run out for a few > hours but > I just checked the temperature at 10:55 p.m., seven hours since > setting this > experiment up and the temperature was up to 70F, a full SIX degrees > Fahrenheit rise in seven hours. The 1F per hour rise is slowing > down, as I > suspected it would, as it approaches temperature equalization. I'm > heading > to sleep in a little while so I'll check it again in the morning. > > 11/30/2006 - ~7:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - Some time in the middle of > the night, > the tank assumed room temperature of 72F since that is what both > were when I > woke up this morning. I forgot to post it here first thing though. > I'm now > putting a 50W heater in the 10G test tank and I'll see how long it > takes to > raise to 80F. > > EDIT - I forgot I had a 10G HOB filter not being used so I just > added it to > the test tank too so now I'll be able to get more accurate test > results on > how long to heat up and cool down with a broken heater. As of 10:30 > a.m. > CST, the tank was 72F still (since I just put the heater in it) and > I have > the heater turned all the way up to the highest temperature to see > how hot > it will get and how fast. > > 11/30/2006 - 11:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - At 11:00 a.m. CST, just 1/2 > hour after > putting the 50W heater in the 10G tank, the temp has risen from 72F > to 74F. > That would be considered a huge jump if the tank had fish in it. > This just > gives you an idea of how fast a heater will heat up a tank. I knew > once I > added the filter system, things become far more dynamic over a > stagnant > tank. I'll report back again later in about 2 hours. Wish I would > have done > this on a weekend where I could monitor things hourly but it still > shows > just how fast a 10G tank can change temps when a heater fails. > > 11/30/2006 - 12:00 Noon - GoldLenny - At 12:00 noon CST, just 1.5 > hours > after putting the heater in the test 10G tank, the temp is up to > 77F, 5 > degrees F in just 1.5 hours. And the heater is still on so I'll see > just how > hot it will make the water before it peaks out, then I'll let it > cool down > again to see how fast it cools down with the filter system now > running on > the tank. > > 11/30/2006 - 4:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 4:00 p.m. CST, it's up to 82F. > That's a > 10F increase in 5.5 hours with the heater "stuck" on the ON > position (since > I have the thermostat all the way up). I'm not sure how much higher > it will > go but I'll check in again in a couple of hours and then turn the > heater off > to see how fast it cools back down to room temp. > > 11/30/2006 - 7:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - At 7:00 p.m., the temp was up > to 84F > and that is probably as high as it will get since I think that is > what the > 50W heater will do to a 10G tank, if I'm not mistaken. I'm going to > wait > until 8 p.m. to see if it goes up any higher and then turn off the > heater to > see how fast it cools off. > > The key here is that a malfunctioning heater or thermostat stuck in > the ON > position will heat up your tank from 72F to 84F, 12 degrees F, in > just 8 > hours. That's probably enough to seriously stress out most fish. > > 11/30/2006 - 8:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 8:00 p.m. - The temp was still > at 84F, > which I think is the max temp from this 50W heater in a 10G tank, so I > unplugged the heater. I'll check temp every hour till I go to sleep > tonight. > > HEATER UNPLUGGED SIMULATING HEATER FAILURE > > 11/30/2006 - 10:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 10:00 p.m. CST - Temp is down > to 82F, > so it's dropping at 1F per hour in the first two hours. > > 11/30/2006 - Midnight - GoldLenny - Midnight CST - Temp is down to > 80F so it > has been steadily dropping 1F per hour with the heater off. > > This means if you have a heater failure and it got stuck in the ON > position, > your tank would get very warm, very fast at 1.5F per hour. If the > heater > failed in the OFF position, your tank would cool down at the rate > of 1F per > hour. > > Either of these scenarios would be very stressful, if not > catastrophic to a > 10G tank. I guess I'll be looking at getting a couple of 25W > heaters in the > near future for my 10G tank. > > The larger the tank, the less volatile the temperature variation > (at least > according to basic laws of physics) but the value of stock in a > larger tank > is a lot more money so it is even more important to keep them > stable as > well. > > 12/01/2006 - 8:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - 12 hours after turning off the > heater - > Temp was down to 72F, 14F degrees lower than it was when the heater > was > turned up all the way, in just 12 hours. > > CONCLUSION - A malfunctioning 50W heater on a 10G tank could be > catastrophic > whether it fails in the ON or OFF position. Either event leaves > your tank > rapidly changing the temperature by 1F or more per hour, until it > reaches > room temperature or the maximum temperature that the heater can > attain, > either of which are very stressful to most fish. This type of event > could > lead to an Ick outbreak, a faltering immune system (causing many other > health issues) and/or DEATH. Earlier in the prelude to the > experiment, I > talked about using two 25W heaters instead of one 50W heater and > now you > know why. ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > I think the heaters are both 100 watts. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OOH OK. So, apparently the thermostats are just off a few degrees... > > or six, if when you set them at 86, they only heated to 80 and at > 89, > > they are only heating to 82... it sounds like the thermostat > could be > > off by 6F to 7F, but it could also be affected by the room temp. > What > > size heaters are these.. in watts? I realize you have two Eheim > > heaters but what are their wattage and these are on a 10G tank.. > > right? If they are both only > > 25 Watt > > heaters, that should be plenty enough to raise the water temp up 7 > > degrees to 85F since your room temp is 78F. Now, if your room > temp was > > down at 68F you would likely need more than 50 Watts of heating to > > raise the tank temp to 85F. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > > What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and > none > > of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased > > within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only > > get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in > > the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New > > England. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those > heaters it > > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > > inspection. > > > It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram > Omelet up > > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them > while > > > your sleeping. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM Ya, I just don't want to > > > > monopolize the list! > > > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they are > > both > > > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest on the > > "children"? > > > > > Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45994	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Less reliable. Just feel the glass on the outside of the tank. And then the water inside. Now, of course you can adjust the actual readings to reflect the average difference, but that is just an average, presuming a certain room temperature that you may not have. You will no longer find a mercury thermometer (whoa! Mercury is toxic!) but the red alcohol ones are pretty good (got news for ya. This type of alcohol is also toxic!). Either form would be good, hang off the side into the water (metal holder of the glass tube) or a floater (glass tube enclosed in glass with ballast at the bottom. I think the latter are more accurate, but could not prove it to you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 4:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? What about the thermometers that you stick on the glass - are those more reliable? That is what I am going by. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I am surprised that no one yet has stepped forth with a dirty > little secret > about these heaters. Do not believe the numbers on the adjustment. > Many of > those types of heaters I have gone through just are not calibrated > properly. > I consider the numbers as an initial guide (some are closer than > others, it > probably varies by lot) and then as decoration thereafter. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and none > of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased > within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only > get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in > the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New > England. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > > inspection. It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while > > your sleeping. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM > > > Ya, I just don't want to monopolize > > > the list! > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they > > > are both > > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest > > > > on the "children"? Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45995	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Are you talking about the thermo-plastic type that change colors? I have two from Marina (Brand) that seem to work OK on two of my tanks but I still use a more expensive thermometer that floats in the water, that I move from tank to tank on a regular basis to make sure the cheaper ones are still working well. If you have a friend that does A/C-heating work, ask to borrow their thermometer to check the accuracy of yours. Theirs are pretty expensive and are usually calibrated pretty accurately. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? What about the thermometers that you stick on the glass - are those more reliable? That is what I am going by. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I am surprised that no one yet has stepped forth with a dirty little > secret about these heaters. Do not believe the numbers on the > adjustment. > Many of > those types of heaters I have gone through just are not calibrated > properly. > I consider the numbers as an initial guide (some are closer than > others, it probably varies by lot) and then as decoration thereafter. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and none > of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased > within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only > get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in > the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New > England. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those heaters it > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > > inspection. It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram Omelet up > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them while > > your sleeping. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM Ya, I just don't want to > > > monopolize the list! > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they are > > > both Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest on the > > > > "children"? Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45996	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

You just need to find the sweet spot on the thermostat. The most I've ever seen them off by is a couple of degrees, where you might have to set it at 82F to have it keep the tank at 80F, or vice versa... but never off by 6-7F, or maybe down to 5F since you say it's up to 84F now. I would drop the thermostat down to 85F and monitor the tank to see if it stays put, rises or falls. If it stays put, then you will know that 85F on that thermometer will actually be 84F. If it continues to go up, then you'll have to bump the thermostat down by 1F at a time until you find the sweet spot. The light should be coming on and off as it heats the water up to the thermostat's temperature setting so if you see the light go out, then you know that the thermostat is working and even if the thermostat is set at 85, and it's only getting up to 82, then use a PermaMarker to change the 85 to 82. You'll have to do this with each of your heaters until you have them all re-calibrated. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? OK, one heater is 100w and the other is 50w - and now the temp is at 84 so let me see if I can get it to stay there. The reason I am not pursuing the defective heater thing yet is because I have three brands of heaters now, and they all don't work with regard to the thermostat, so it seems like getting replacements of the same brands is not going to help. I need the Rolls Royce of heaters, whatever that is. The heaters themselves do work, just not the thermostats. I think maybe like some of you are saying, this is just the nature of the beast. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > There should be something on them to indicate their wattage so you can > be sure. Guessing the size of a heater is not a good thing, IMO. > > If they are both 100W, then something is definitely wrong with them > and I would be very careful with using them since their thermostats > are obviously not working properly. This could result in one or both > of them getting stuck in the ON position and you would have a fish fry > boil on your hands. > 5 Watts per gallon (50 Watts on a 10G) is usually more than sufficient > for most folks to raise the tank temperature and with your room temp > being 78F, you should not need more than that either... 3 Watts per > gallon would probably suffice. I've never used more than two 25 Watt > heaters on a 10G tank and that was raising the tank temp from a room > temp of 72F up to tropical temps (around 80F). In fact, in reading my > blog article on my heater experiment, a 50W heater raised a 10G tank > from 72F to 82F in just > 5.5 hours and then up to 84F in just another four hours so with your > room temp being 78F, you shouldn't need more than 50W of heater... or > two 25W heaters. > > Below my sig, there's a long snip from my blog article on the > experiment I did on a 10G tank to show how much the temp would change > with a failed heater... in either the stuck ON or stuck OFF position. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > 11/29/2006 - ~4:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I just filled the 10G with cold > tap water at 64F. Room Temperature in my kitchen is 75F. It's 3:55pm > CST. I'll report back in an hour or two. When it assumes room > temperature, then I'll put in a heater, raise it to 80F and see how > fast it cools down back to room temp also. This will also show what > happens when it gets warm during the day and cooler at night in a > home... usually.... to show what happens to a 10G temperature range > without a heater. I know physics dictates that a 55G would take a lot > longer to change temperature up or down but someone with an empty 55G > would have to do that test. > > 11/29/2006 - ~5:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I took a temperature reading > after one hour and it had already started to rise a little. One thing > I thought of is that I do not have a filter running on this tank which > will make the temp change more slowly then on a tank with water > agitation so this experiment will actually show that an actual tank > will change temperature even more quickly due to the water agitation > and the constant change of water on the glass surfaces and top surface > area that are exposed to the different room temperature. It's kind of > how a convection oven cooks a lot faster than a regular oven because > of the circulating air keeping constantly HOT air on the surface of > the food instead of a slight buffer zone with a slightly lower > temperature. My two hour temperature readings will be posted shortly. > > 11/29/2006 - ~6:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - OK. It's 5:55pm CST, two hours > later and the tank has risen from 64F to 66F, two degrees Fahrenheit. > From what I > remember in science class a long time ago, water will cool faster than > it will warm given identical applied temperature variations so if it > is warming up by 1F per hour, it would cool down even faster, in the > event of a failed heater stuck in the off position. > > The reason water cools down faster is because of evaporation when the > water is warmer than the air surroundings. When water is warmer than > the ambient air, water releases the heat via evaporation. This results > in steam or fog when the difference is very large but there is still > evaporation even when the difference is very little, which is why you > get condensation on the cover glass of your tanks. Ambient air does > not "evaporate" into the water, it just slowly changes raises the > temperature. > > Whew. I can't believe I still remember some of these physics, > chemistry and earth science basics. > > Reply: > > MjRyan - (quoting)"goldlenny (11/29/2006) If your temp only went down > 2F in a day and a half, then your room temp was only 2F lower than > your tank temp. > I promise you a 10G tank will assume room temperature within a couple > of hours of losing the heater. I have an empty 10G on my kitchen > counter so I'll do the science right now and post my results in this > thread." > > In the sense you talk about, your right, it isn't really important... > I am NOT worried about the temp dropping. but wait until one of your > heaters mal's and stays on overnight while your sleeping. Your fish > will be at the top floating from the hot tub they didn't enjoy. Using > a 1/2 rec. watt heater and that problem is eliminated as it wont have > enough power to heat the whole tank. > > Good Test Lenny > > Back to GoldLenny posts: > > 11/29/2006 - ~11:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I had to run out for a few > hours but I just checked the temperature at 10:55 p.m., seven hours > since setting this experiment up and the temperature was up to 70F, a > full SIX degrees Fahrenheit rise in seven hours. The 1F per hour rise > is slowing down, as I suspected it would, as it approaches temperature > equalization. I'm heading to sleep in a little while so I'll check it > again in the morning. > > 11/30/2006 - ~7:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - Some time in the middle of the > night, the tank assumed room temperature of 72F since that is what > both were when I woke up this morning. I forgot to post it here first > thing though. > I'm now > putting a 50W heater in the 10G test tank and I'll see how long it > takes to raise to 80F. > > EDIT - I forgot I had a 10G HOB filter not being used so I just added > it to the test tank too so now I'll be able to get more accurate test > results on how long to heat up and cool down with a broken heater. As > of 10:30 a.m. > CST, the tank was 72F still (since I just put the heater in it) and I > have the heater turned all the way up to the highest temperature to > see how hot it will get and how fast. > > 11/30/2006 - 11:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - At 11:00 a.m. CST, just 1/2 hour > after putting the 50W heater in the 10G tank, the temp has risen from > 72F to 74F. > That would be considered a huge jump if the tank had fish in it. > This just > gives you an idea of how fast a heater will heat up a tank. I knew > once I added the filter system, things become far more dynamic over a > stagnant tank. I'll report back again later in about 2 hours. Wish I > would have done this on a weekend where I could monitor things hourly > but it still shows just how fast a 10G tank can change temps when a > heater fails. > > 11/30/2006 - 12:00 Noon - GoldLenny - At 12:00 noon CST, just 1.5 > hours after putting the heater in the test 10G tank, the temp is up to > 77F, 5 degrees F in just 1.5 hours. And the heater is still on so I'll > see just how hot it will make the water before it peaks out, then I'll > let it cool down again to see how fast it cools down with the filter > system now running on the tank. > > 11/30/2006 - 4:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 4:00 p.m. CST, it's up to 82F. > That's a > 10F increase in 5.5 hours with the heater "stuck" on the ON position > (since I have the thermostat all the way up). I'm not sure how much > higher it will go but I'll check in again in a couple of hours and > then turn the heater off to see how fast it cools back down to room > temp. > > 11/30/2006 - 7:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - At 7:00 p.m., the temp was up to > 84F and that is probably as high as it will get since I think that is > what the 50W heater will do to a 10G tank, if I'm not mistaken. I'm > going to wait until 8 p.m. to see if it goes up any higher and then > turn off the heater to see how fast it cools off. > > The key here is that a malfunctioning heater or thermostat stuck in > the ON position will heat up your tank from 72F to 84F, 12 degrees F, > in just 8 hours. That's probably enough to seriously stress out most > fish. > > 11/30/2006 - 8:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 8:00 p.m. - The temp was still at > 84F, which I think is the max temp from this 50W heater in a 10G tank, > so I unplugged the heater. I'll check temp every hour till I go to > sleep tonight. > > HEATER UNPLUGGED SIMULATING HEATER FAILURE > > 11/30/2006 - 10:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 10:00 p.m. CST - Temp is down to > 82F, so it's dropping at 1F per hour in the first two hours. > > 11/30/2006 - Midnight - GoldLenny - Midnight CST - Temp is down to 80F > so it has been steadily dropping 1F per hour with the heater off. > > This means if you have a heater failure and it got stuck in the ON > position, your tank would get very warm, very fast at 1.5F per hour. > If the heater failed in the OFF position, your tank would cool down at > the rate of 1F per hour. > > Either of these scenarios would be very stressful, if not catastrophic > to a 10G tank. I guess I'll be looking at getting a couple of 25W > heaters in the near future for my 10G tank. > > The larger the tank, the less volatile the temperature variation (at > least according to basic laws of physics) but the value of stock in a > larger tank is a lot more money so it is even more important to keep > them stable as well. > > 12/01/2006 - 8:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - 12 hours after turning off the > heater - Temp was down to 72F, 14F degrees lower than it was when the > heater was turned up all the way, in just 12 hours. > > CONCLUSION - A malfunctioning 50W heater on a 10G tank could be > catastrophic whether it fails in the ON or OFF position. Either event > leaves your tank rapidly changing the temperature by 1F or more per > hour, until it reaches room temperature or the maximum temperature > that the heater can attain, either of which are very stressful to most > fish. This type of event could lead to an Ick outbreak, a faltering > immune system (causing many other health issues) and/or DEATH. Earlier > in the prelude to the experiment, I talked about using two 25W heaters > instead of one 50W heater and now you know why. ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > I think the heaters are both 100 watts. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > OOH OK. So, apparently the thermostats are just off a few degrees... > > or six, if when you set them at 86, they only heated to 80 and at > 89, > > they are only heating to 82... it sounds like the thermostat > could be > > off by 6F to 7F, but it could also be affected by the room temp. > What > > size heaters are these.. in watts? I realize you have two Eheim > > heaters but what are their wattage and these are on a 10G tank.. > > right? If they are both only > > 25 Watt > > heaters, that should be plenty enough to raise the water temp up 7 > > degrees to 85F since your room temp is 78F. Now, if your room > temp was > > down at 68F you would likely need more than 50 Watts of heating to > > raise the tank temp to 85F. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > > What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and > none > > of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased > > within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only > > get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in > > the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New > > England. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those > heaters it > > > sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an > > inspection. > > > It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. > > > If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram > Omelet up > > > there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them > while > > > your sleeping. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM Ya, I just don't want to > > > > monopolize the list! > > > > > > > > Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) > > > > > > > > Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they are > > both > > > > Eheims and both set for 89. > > > > > > > > However, so far so good... > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > You're quite up there today! What's the latest on the > > "children"? > > > > > Are they running you ragged? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45997	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

What thermometers do you use to check the temp, out of curiosity? Mercury based thermometers are more accurate than the LCD types, but it's not a "major" difference, some can be off by a couple degrees. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > OK, one heater is 100w and the other is 50w - and now the temp is at > 84 so let me see if I can get it to stay there. > > The reason I am not pursuing the defective heater thing yet is > because I have three brands of heaters now, and they all don't work > with regard to the thermostat, so it seems like getting replacements > of the same brands is not going to help. I need the Rolls Royce of > heaters, whatever that is. > > The heaters themselves do work, just not the thermostats. > > I think maybe like some of you are saying, this is just the nature of > the beast. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> There should be something on them to indicate their wattage so you >> can be >> sure. Guessing the size of a heater is not a good thing, IMO. >> >> If they are both 100W, then something is definitely wrong with them >> and I >> would be very careful with using them since their thermostats are >> obviously >> not working properly. This could result in one or both of them getting >> stuck in the ON position and you would have a fish fry boil on your >> hands. >> 5 Watts per gallon (50 Watts on a 10G) is usually more than >> sufficient for >> most folks to raise the tank temperature and with your room temp >> being 78F, >> you should not need more than that either... 3 Watts per gallon would >> probably suffice. I've never used more than two 25 Watt heaters on >> a 10G >> tank and that was raising the tank temp from a room temp of 72F up to >> tropical temps (around 80F). In fact, in reading my blog article on my >> heater experiment, a 50W heater raised a 10G tank from 72F to 82F >> in just >> 5.5 hours and then up to 84F in just another four hours so with >> your room >> temp being 78F, you shouldn't need more than 50W of heater... or >> two 25W >> heaters. >> >> Below my sig, there's a long snip from my blog article on the >> experiment I >> did on a 10G tank to show how much the temp would change with a failed >> heater... in either the stuck ON or stuck OFF position. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> 11/29/2006 - ~4:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I just filled the 10G with >> cold tap >> water at 64F. Room Temperature in my kitchen is 75F. It's 3:55pm >> CST. I'll >> report back in an hour or two. When it assumes room temperature, >> then I'll >> put in a heater, raise it to 80F and see how fast it cools down >> back to room >> temp also. This will also show what happens when it gets warm >> during the day >> and cooler at night in a home... usually.... to show what happens >> to a 10G >> temperature range without a heater. I know physics dictates that a >> 55G would >> take a lot longer to change temperature up or down but someone with >> an empty >> 55G would have to do that test. >> >> 11/29/2006 - ~5:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I took a temperature reading >> after one >> hour and it had already started to rise a little. One thing I >> thought of is >> that I do not have a filter running on this tank which will make >> the temp >> change more slowly then on a tank with water agitation so this >> experiment >> will actually show that an actual tank will change temperature even >> more >> quickly due to the water agitation and the constant change of water >> on the >> glass surfaces and top surface area that are exposed to the >> different room >> temperature. It's kind of how a convection oven cooks a lot faster >> than a >> regular oven because of the circulating air keeping constantly HOT >> air on >> the surface of the food instead of a slight buffer zone with a >> slightly >> lower temperature. My two hour temperature readings will be posted >> shortly. >> >> 11/29/2006 - ~6:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - OK. It's 5:55pm CST, two >> hours later >> and the tank has risen from 64F to 66F, two degrees Fahrenheit. >> From what I >> remember in science class a long time ago, water will cool faster >> than it >> will warm given identical applied temperature variations so if it >> is warming >> up by 1F per hour, it would cool down even faster, in the event of >> a failed >> heater stuck in the off position. >> >> The reason water cools down faster is because of evaporation when >> the water >> is warmer than the air surroundings. When water is warmer than the >> ambient >> air, water releases the heat via evaporation. This results in steam >> or fog >> when the difference is very large but there is still evaporation >> even when >> the difference is very little, which is why you get condensation on >> the >> cover glass of your tanks. Ambient air does not "evaporate" into >> the water, >> it just slowly changes raises the temperature. >> >> Whew. I can't believe I still remember some of these physics, >> chemistry and >> earth science basics. >> >> Reply: >> >> MjRyan - (quoting)"goldlenny (11/29/2006) If your temp only went >> down 2F in >> a day and a half, then your room temp was only 2F lower than your >> tank temp. >> I promise you a 10G tank will assume room temperature within a >> couple of >> hours of losing the heater. I have an empty 10G on my kitchen >> counter so >> I'll do the science right now and post my results in this thread." >> >> In the sense you talk about, your right, it isn't really >> important... I am >> NOT worried about the temp dropping. but wait until one of your >> heaters >> mal's and stays on overnight while your sleeping. Your fish will be >> at the >> top floating from the hot tub they didn't enjoy. Using a 1/2 rec. watt >> heater and that problem is eliminated as it wont have enough power >> to heat >> the whole tank. >> >> Good Test Lenny >> >> Back to GoldLenny posts: >> >> 11/29/2006 - ~11:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - I had to run out for a few >> hours but >> I just checked the temperature at 10:55 p.m., seven hours since >> setting this >> experiment up and the temperature was up to 70F, a full SIX degrees >> Fahrenheit rise in seven hours. The 1F per hour rise is slowing >> down, as I >> suspected it would, as it approaches temperature equalization. I'm >> heading >> to sleep in a little while so I'll check it again in the morning. >> >> 11/30/2006 - ~7:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - Some time in the middle of >> the night, >> the tank assumed room temperature of 72F since that is what both >> were when I >> woke up this morning. I forgot to post it here first thing though. >> I'm now >> putting a 50W heater in the 10G test tank and I'll see how long it >> takes to >> raise to 80F. >> >> EDIT - I forgot I had a 10G HOB filter not being used so I just >> added it to >> the test tank too so now I'll be able to get more accurate test >> results on >> how long to heat up and cool down with a broken heater. As of 10:30 >> a.m. >> CST, the tank was 72F still (since I just put the heater in it) and >> I have >> the heater turned all the way up to the highest temperature to see >> how hot >> it will get and how fast. >> >> 11/30/2006 - 11:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - At 11:00 a.m. CST, just 1/2 >> hour after >> putting the 50W heater in the 10G tank, the temp has risen from 72F >> to 74F. >> That would be considered a huge jump if the tank had fish in it. >> This just >> gives you an idea of how fast a heater will heat up a tank. I knew >> once I >> added the filter system, things become far more dynamic over a >> stagnant >> tank. I'll report back again later in about 2 hours. Wish I would >> have done >> this on a weekend where I could monitor things hourly but it still >> shows >> just how fast a 10G tank can change temps when a heater fails. >> >> 11/30/2006 - 12:00 Noon - GoldLenny - At 12:00 noon CST, just 1.5 >> hours >> after putting the heater in the test 10G tank, the temp is up to >> 77F, 5 >> degrees F in just 1.5 hours. And the heater is still on so I'll see >> just how >> hot it will make the water before it peaks out, then I'll let it >> cool down >> again to see how fast it cools down with the filter system now >> running on >> the tank. >> >> 11/30/2006 - 4:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 4:00 p.m. CST, it's up to 82F. >> That's a >> 10F increase in 5.5 hours with the heater "stuck" on the ON >> position (since >> I have the thermostat all the way up). I'm not sure how much higher >> it will >> go but I'll check in again in a couple of hours and then turn the >> heater off >> to see how fast it cools back down to room temp. >> >> 11/30/2006 - 7:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - At 7:00 p.m., the temp was up >> to 84F >> and that is probably as high as it will get since I think that is >> what the >> 50W heater will do to a 10G tank, if I'm not mistaken. I'm going to >> wait >> until 8 p.m. to see if it goes up any higher and then turn off the >> heater to >> see how fast it cools off. >> >> The key here is that a malfunctioning heater or thermostat stuck in >> the ON >> position will heat up your tank from 72F to 84F, 12 degrees F, in >> just 8 >> hours. That's probably enough to seriously stress out most fish. >> >> 11/30/2006 - 8:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 8:00 p.m. - The temp was still >> at 84F, >> which I think is the max temp from this 50W heater in a 10G tank, so I >> unplugged the heater. I'll check temp every hour till I go to sleep >> tonight. >> >> HEATER UNPLUGGED SIMULATING HEATER FAILURE >> >> 11/30/2006 - 10:00 p.m. - GoldLenny - 10:00 p.m. CST - Temp is down >> to 82F, >> so it's dropping at 1F per hour in the first two hours. >> >> 11/30/2006 - Midnight - GoldLenny - Midnight CST - Temp is down to >> 80F so it >> has been steadily dropping 1F per hour with the heater off. >> >> This means if you have a heater failure and it got stuck in the ON >> position, >> your tank would get very warm, very fast at 1.5F per hour. If the >> heater >> failed in the OFF position, your tank would cool down at the rate >> of 1F per >> hour. >> >> Either of these scenarios would be very stressful, if not >> catastrophic to a >> 10G tank. I guess I'll be looking at getting a couple of 25W >> heaters in the >> near future for my 10G tank. >> >> The larger the tank, the less volatile the temperature variation >> (at least >> according to basic laws of physics) but the value of stock in a >> larger tank >> is a lot more money so it is even more important to keep them >> stable as >> well. >> >> 12/01/2006 - 8:00 a.m. - GoldLenny - 12 hours after turning off the >> heater - >> Temp was down to 72F, 14F degrees lower than it was when the heater >> was >> turned up all the way, in just 12 hours. >> >> CONCLUSION - A malfunctioning 50W heater on a 10G tank could be >> catastrophic >> whether it fails in the ON or OFF position. Either event leaves >> your tank >> rapidly changing the temperature by 1F or more per hour, until it >> reaches >> room temperature or the maximum temperature that the heater can >> attain, >> either of which are very stressful to most fish. This type of event >> could >> lead to an Ick outbreak, a faltering immune system (causing many other >> health issues) and/or DEATH. Earlier in the prelude to the >> experiment, I >> talked about using two 25W heaters instead of one 50W heater and >> now you >> know why. ;-) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:03 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? >> >> I think the heaters are both 100 watts. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >>> OOH OK. So, apparently the thermostats are just off a few degrees... >>> or six, if when you set them at 86, they only heated to 80 and at >>> >> 89, >> >>> they are only heating to 82... it sounds like the thermostat >>> >> could be >> >>> off by 6F to 7F, but it could also be affected by the room temp. >>> >> What >> >>> size heaters are these.. in watts? I realize you have two Eheim >>> heaters but what are their wattage and these are on a 10G tank.. >>> right? If they are both only >>> 25 Watt >>> heaters, that should be plenty enough to raise the water temp up 7 >>> degrees to 85F since your room temp is 78F. Now, if your room >>> >> temp was >> >>> down at 68F you would likely need more than 50 Watts of heating to >>> raise the tank temp to 85F. >>> >>> Lenny Vasbinder >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>> >> alphabetically >> >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>> Month) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:40 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? >>> >>> What I tried to explain is that I have six or seven heaters, and >>> >> none >> >>> of them have working thermostats, even though they were purchased >>> within the past five months. If I lower the thermostat to 86 I only >>> get 79 or 80 in the tank. I don't like it. I have raised the heat in >>> the house to help but I just can't go over 78 degrees here in New >>> England. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, bill 1433 wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Thank's for the report Lainey. I have no answer on those >>>> >> heaters it >> >>>> sounds like frozen contacts but I can't be sure without an >>>> >>> inspection. >>> >>>> It would do you well to keep a very close eye on them. >>>> If they should let loose; instead of fry, you'll have Ram >>>> >> Omelet up >> >>>> there! I have no advise at all on what you could do with them >>>> >> while >> >>>> your sleeping. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 1/18/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >>>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Date: Monday, January 18, 2010, 1:26 PM Ya, I just don't want to >>>>> monopolize the list! >>>>> >>>>> Wigglers still squiggling but bigger:) >>>>> >>>>> Heaters not great so only up to 82 so far even though they are >>>>> >>> both >>> >>>>> Eheims and both set for 89. >>>>> >>>>> However, so far so good... >>>>> >>>>> Lainey >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, bill 1433 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> You're quite up there today! What's the latest on the >>>>>> >>> "children"? >>> >>>>>> Are they running you ragged? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45998	From: walkswithshelties	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

Thanks, Steve. Please let me know. The lift tubes I had lying around that I used to play with the pump were about 3/4 diameter and I used 2 of them. They drained the filter box rather than acting as uplifts. I just hung them off the side of the filter box. As I said, I was just playing with it to see if it even worked...I do have the bottom plate, which the pump head apparently plugs into...unless I missed my guess - which is likely as I've never encountered one of these before. To recap, I have the filter box, the powerhead and the bottom plate. Actually, I have second box and filter plate, too. I got a "box of junk" on Freecycle and was pawing through it to see what was good, bad or just plain ugly. :-D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 45999	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

Do those intake tubes make a U shape and connect to the motor? If it does not make a U shape then it will not connect to the motor and continue sucking water through the filter system. Amber walkswithshelties wrote: > > Thanks, Steve. Please let me know. > > The lift tubes I had lying around that I used to play with the pump > were about 3/4 diameter and I used 2 of them. They drained the filter > box rather than acting as uplifts. I just hung them off the side of > the filter box. As I said, I was just playing with it to see if it > even worked...I do have the bottom plate, which the pump head > apparently plugs into...unless I missed my guess - which is likely as > I've never encountered one of these before. > > To recap, I have the filter box, the powerhead and the bottom plate. > Actually, I have second box and filter plate, too. I got a "box of > junk" on Freecycle and was pawing through it to see what was good, bad > or just plain ugly. :-D > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46000	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

In my limited experience with the "stick-on" thermometers, I've never found them to be all that accurate -- but then, maybe I didn't give them a fair try. I prefer the hang on type with alchohol, even though I've seen them vary too from one to another. What you need to do when buying these is to match a bunch of them up against each other and see where the majority of them read, and buy one of those. Sometimes there can be a few that will vary from the majority by 3 or 4 degrees in one direction or the other. The floating glass thermometers, with alchohol, are usually fairly accurate also, but they're a pain in the neck as they always seem to face any way but forward when you go to red them. In any case, it always pays to double check one type of thermometer with another just to be sure. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46001	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Thermometer photo and lotus

Here is a picture of the thermometers I am using. Also snuck in some pictures of my exploding lotus tank. Today one of the leaves went out of the water. Anyway, please let me know if these thermometers are unreliable. So far the ram wigglers are still wiggling - don't ask me how! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ list Thank you all, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46002	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Supreme Aquamaster PME-A

The intake tubes (the tubes that draw water from the aquarium into the filter box) do not connect to the motor. The motor plugs into the bottom plate and draws water from beneath the filter plate. Water then is drawn in through these intake tubes to replace this missing water, by the syphon process. It sounds like the aquarium's water level is too low if water is flowing through the intake tubes from the filter box back into the aquarium as that's just what would happen in the natural process of syphoning -- water flows from the highest level to the lowest level though these tubes and it all depends which container (aquarium or filter) has the lowest water level. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

OH.. you don't have a "stick on" thermometer like I was thinking. You have a glass enclosed thermometer that can be left floating in the tank or connected to a suction cup holder inside the tank, in either case, it's inside the tank and in the water. Those are usually pretty reliable but they are also subject to give false readings if the glass tube (containing the red alcohol mix) and the chart are not stuck together in the right place by the person putting it together at the factory. This is what I called a "stick-on" thermometer... it's actually a Liquid Crystal strip that changes colors. They also sell these at the drug store for taking one's temperature by putting the strip against your forehead. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3744+3900&pcat id=3900 Here's DFS' page of different types of thermometers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-thermometer/ps/c/3578/3 744 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thermometer photo and lotus Here is a picture of the thermometers I am using. Also snuck in some pictures of my exploding lotus tank. Today one of the leaves went out of the water. Anyway, please let me know if these thermometers are unreliable. So far the ram wigglers are still wiggling - don't ask me how! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ list Thank you all, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46004	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Re: Yo Lainey?

Ray, I would have certainly though that you, of all people, would know that you need to sneak up on those thermometers to get the reading. <g> Actually, if you do not have too much water movement in the tank, you can get them to stick to the side for a period of time lasting several days utilizing the surface tension of the water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 6:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Yo Lainey? In my limited experience with the "stick-on" thermometers, I've never found them to be all that accurate -- but then, maybe I didn't give them a fair try. I prefer the hang on type with alchohol, even though I've seen them vary too from one to another. What you need to do when buying these is to match a bunch of them up against each other and see where the majority of them read, and buy one of those. Sometimes there can be a few that will vary from the majority by 3 or 4 degrees in one direction or the other. The floating glass thermometers, with alchohol, are usually fairly accurate also, but they're a pain in the neck as they always seem to face any way but forward when you go to red them. In any case, it always pays to double check one type of thermometer with another just to be sure. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46005	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/18/2010
Subject: Gastromyzon socializing pics

Got a couple of new pics this weekend of the 2 types of Gastromyzon socializing a little bit. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2715/4286142155_d2698064f0_o.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2759/4286883396_75b46b0c6b_b.jpg Little blurry but not bad, these little guys tend to scare easily, hard to sneak up on them for a picture, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46006	From: jvpfish@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Fw: Koi

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: jvpfish@... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 13:01:25 To: Aquaticlife<aquaticlife@...> Subject: Koi one of my koi looks like she is pregnant. How do I tell? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46007	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

I'm slow, LOL You have a beautiful tank Lainey, I'm jealous at all those pretty plants ;) I can't afford a CO2 system yet, perhaps later this year. Either way my tank does pretty good, just wish my plants outcompeted my black beard algae a bit better ;) I have to trim their beards more often than I'd like to, LOL. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Here is a picture of the thermometers I am using. Also snuck in some > pictures of my exploding lotus tank. Today one of the leaves went out > of the water. > > Anyway, please let me know if these thermometers are unreliable. > > So far the ram wigglers are still wiggling - don't ask me how! > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/> > list > > Thank you all, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46008	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

Thanks, Amber. Since I have MTS, I had to stop using injected CO2 systems at a certain point due to expense and amount of room they take up, and switched over to do-it-yourself with a soda bottle, yeast and sugar mixture. I am shocked at how well it works, even with just a 50cent airstone. I know you have jumbo tanks, but you could set up three DIY CO2 systems for like a few dollars, and you might be surprised at how well this works for you. Another surprising aspect to me was how totally easy it is to do. It takes me about three minutes to prepare the mixture of sugar and yeast, then I add water, pour it in the soda bottle, screw on the top with tubing and I'm done. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I'm slow, LOL > You have a beautiful tank Lainey, I'm jealous at all those pretty > plants > ;) I can't afford a CO2 system yet, perhaps later this year. Either > way > my tank does pretty good, just wish my plants outcompeted my black > beard > algae a bit better ;) I have to trim their beards more often than I'd > like to, LOL. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> Here is a picture of the thermometers I am using. Also snuck in some >> pictures of my exploding lotus tank. Today one of the leaves went out >> of the water. >> >> Anyway, please let me know if these thermometers are unreliable. >> >> So far the ram wigglers are still wiggling - don't ask me how! >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ >> pic/ >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ >> pic/> >> list >> >> Thank you all, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46009	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Cory behavior

So after adding another powerhead to my 55 gallon tank last week I have now noticed my Cory's spawning twice in about a week and a half time frame now. I'm not sure what is causing the new behavior, but it's very interesting to watch. So far none have hatched and I'm fine with that, as I wasn't planning on breeding them, LOL. Do I have any chances on the babies surviving at all in a community tank with guppy's, shrimp, snails, and a few hillstream loaches? They seem to start right after the lights come on in the morning, and they are very active at night under the LED moon lights. Perhaps they just became sexually mature ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46010	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

Do you have a link or anything of the setup for this DIY CO2 system? I found some online awhile back, but I was told I'd need a lot of them for my 125 gallon tank and they would take up too much room in the end. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Thanks, Amber. > > Since I have MTS, I had to stop using injected CO2 systems at a > certain point due to expense and amount of room they take up, and > switched over to do-it-yourself with a soda bottle, yeast and sugar > mixture. I am shocked at how well it works, even with just a 50cent > airstone. I know you have jumbo tanks, but you could set up three DIY > CO2 systems for like a few dollars, and you might be surprised at how > well this works for you. Another surprising aspect to me was how > totally easy it is to do. It takes me about three minutes to prepare > the mixture of sugar and yeast, then I add water, pour it in the soda > bottle, screw on the top with tubing and I'm done. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I'm slow, LOL > > You have a beautiful tank Lainey, I'm jealous at all those pretty > > plants > > ;) I can't afford a CO2 system yet, perhaps later this year. Either > > way > > my tank does pretty good, just wish my plants outcompeted my black > > beard > > algae a bit better ;) I have to trim their beards more often than I'd > > like to, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Here is a picture of the thermometers I am using. Also snuck in some > >> pictures of my exploding lotus tank. Today one of the leaves went out > >> of the water. > >> > >> Anyway, please let me know if these thermometers are unreliable. > >> > >> So far the ram wigglers are still wiggling - don't ask me how! > >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/> > >> pic/ > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/> > >> pic/> > >> list > >> > >> Thank you all, > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46011	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

Amber - I took bits and pieces from different systems and came up with a system that is super easy. I can take pictures for you if you want. The only high-tech part is you need a small drill bit to drill a hole in the top of the soda bottle for pulling through the tubing. I can tell you how to do that as well. One bottle is more than enough for my ten g tanks, so I am thinking you might need one bottle for 20g. I guess maybe five or six bottles for the 125? But it's SO easy and cheap, it might be fun to try it... I pull all my airstones out at night so as not to OD the fish. People say they don't do this, but then they talk about disasters with fish dying sometimes. If you pull the stones out, you won't have a problem. You can think about it and let me know if you want details and pictures. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Do you have a link or anything of the setup for this DIY CO2 system? I > found some online awhile back, but I was told I'd need a lot of > them for > my 125 gallon tank and they would take up too much room in the end. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> Thanks, Amber. >> >> Since I have MTS, I had to stop using injected CO2 systems at a >> certain point due to expense and amount of room they take up, and >> switched over to do-it-yourself with a soda bottle, yeast and sugar >> mixture. I am shocked at how well it works, even with just a 50cent >> airstone. I know you have jumbo tanks, but you could set up three DIY >> CO2 systems for like a few dollars, and you might be surprised at how >> well this works for you. Another surprising aspect to me was how >> totally easy it is to do. It takes me about three minutes to prepare >> the mixture of sugar and yeast, then I add water, pour it in the soda >> bottle, screw on the top with tubing and I'm done. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> I'm slow, LOL >>> You have a beautiful tank Lainey, I'm jealous at all those pretty >>> plants >>> ;) I can't afford a CO2 system yet, perhaps later this year. Either >>> way >>> my tank does pretty good, just wish my plants outcompeted my black >>> beard >>> algae a bit better ;) I have to trim their beards more often than >>> I'd >>> like to, LOL. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> Here is a picture of the thermometers I am using. Also snuck in >>>> some >>>> pictures of my exploding lotus tank. Today one of the leaves >>>> went out >>>> of the water. >>>> >>>> Anyway, please let me know if these thermometers are unreliable. >>>> >>>> So far the ram wigglers are still wiggling - don't ask me how! >>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/> >>>> pic/ >>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/> >>>> pic/> >>>> list >>>> >>>> Thank you all, >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> Thank You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> ((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >>> subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >>> and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive >> individual e- >>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46012	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior

Amber, You were batting a 1,000 until you mentioned the hillstream loaches. I'm pretty sure they would enjoy those eggs. Bill --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cory behavior > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 11:16 AM > So after adding another powerhead to > my 55 gallon tank last week I have > now noticed my Cory's spawning twice in about a week and a > half time > frame now. I'm not sure what is causing the new behavior, > but it's very > interesting to watch. So far none have hatched and I'm fine > with that, > as I wasn't planning on breeding them, LOL. Do I have any > chances on the > babies surviving at all in a community tank with guppy's, > shrimp, > snails, and a few hillstream loaches? > > They seem to start right after the lights come on in the > morning, and > they are very active at night under the LED moon lights. > Perhaps they > just became sexually mature ;) > > Amber > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46013	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

As Ray described yesterday about taking a handful of these and then seeing which are the closest in range and then buying one of those I do the same thing only with the stick on jobs.  But then as I told Lainey, I have an old molded plastic over glass swimming pool thermometer to check it against that for some unknown reason, is very accurate.  Again as Ray sort of hinted at, I don't think any of these things are "hospital" accurate" but if you have already checked the range then you know where you are at so to speak. Incidentally Amber, I've been doing some FED EX homework and as near as I can tell it breaks down much like you said.  From anywhere in the Continental US to my door, overnight, about $65.00.  And also an apology to Lainey on a miss posting or typing error.  If she is in MASSACHUSETTS, then the correct abbreviation is MA NOT MS, that's for the folks in MISSISSIPPI.  Not sure which one of us on group made the mistake but I learned about it here: http://www.usps.com/ncsc/lookups/usps_abbreviations.html   Bill --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thermometer photo and lotus To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 11:08 AM I'm slow, LOL You have a beautiful tank Lainey, I'm jealous at all those pretty plants ;) I can't afford a CO2 system yet, perhaps later this year. Either way my tank does pretty good, just wish my plants outcompeted my black beard algae a bit better ;) I have to trim their beards more often than I'd like to, LOL. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Here is a picture of the thermometers I am using. Also snuck in some > pictures of my exploding lotus tank. Today one of the leaves went out > of the water. > > Anyway, please let me know if these thermometers are unreliable. > > So far the ram wigglers are still wiggling - don't ask me how! > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/> > list > > Thank you all, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46014	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

Lainey, I think we all would. I have never done well with plants and have even been known to kill the plastic ones! Bill --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thermometer photo and lotus > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 11:30 AM > Amber - > > I took bits and pieces from different systems and came up > with a  > system that is super easy. I can take pictures for you if > you want.  > The only high-tech part is you need a small drill bit to > drill a hole  > in the top of the soda bottle for pulling through the > tubing. I can  > tell you how to do that as well. > > One bottle is more than enough for my ten g tanks, so I am > thinking  > you might need one bottle for 20g. I guess maybe five or > six bottles  > for the 125? But it's SO easy and cheap, it might be fun to > try it... > > I pull all my airstones out at night so as not to OD the > fish. People  > say they don't do this, but then they talk about disasters > with fish  > dying sometimes. If you pull the stones out, you won't have > a problem. > > You can think about it and let me know if you want details > and pictures. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Do you have a link or anything of the setup for this > DIY CO2 system? I > > found some online awhile back, but I was told I'd need > a lot of  > > them for > > my 125 gallon tank and they would take up too much > room in the end. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Thanks, Amber. > >> > >> Since I have MTS, I had to stop using injected CO2 > systems at a > >> certain point due to expense and amount of room > they take up, and > >> switched over to do-it-yourself with a soda > bottle, yeast and sugar > >> mixture. I am shocked at how well it works, even > with just a 50cent > >> airstone. I know you have jumbo tanks, but you > could set up three DIY > >> CO2 systems for like a few dollars, and you might > be surprised at how > >> well this works for you. Another surprising aspect > to me was how > >> totally easy it is to do. It takes me about three > minutes to prepare > >> the mixture of sugar and yeast, then I add water, > pour it in the soda > >> bottle, screw on the top with tubing and I'm > done. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Amber Berglund > wrote: > >> > >>> I'm slow, LOL > >>> You have a beautiful tank Lainey, I'm jealous > at all those pretty > >>> plants > >>> ;) I can't afford a CO2 system yet, perhaps > later this year. Either > >>> way > >>> my tank does pretty good, just wish my plants > outcompeted my black > >>> beard > >>> algae a bit better ;) I have to trim their > beards more often than  > >>> I'd > >>> like to, LOL. > >>> > >>> Amber > >>> > >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Here is a picture of the thermometers I am > using. Also snuck in  > >>>> some > >>>> pictures of my exploding lotus tank. Today > one of the leaves  > >>>> went out > >>>> of the water. > >>>> > >>>> Anyway, please let me know if these > thermometers are unreliable. > >>>> > >>>> So far the ram wigglers are still wiggling > - don't ask me how! > >>>> > >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/> > >>>> pic/ > >>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/> > >>>> pic/> > >>>> list > >>>> > >>>> Thank you all, > >>>> > >>>> Lainey > >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http:// > >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >>>> > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have > been removed] > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below > it when replying, > >>> Thank You. > >>> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > >>> ((((º> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is NOT > >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original > >>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new subject (was re: old > >>> subject)" <- > >>> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by clicking on > >>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >>> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the > No E-Mail > >>> option where you will still be able to read > messages on the group > >>> and post replies. > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive  > >> individual e- > >>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46015	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

Wow. I will post my info if you will tell me how to kill the plastic ones! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:37 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Lainey, > > I think we all would. I have never done well with plants and > have even been known to kill the plastic ones! > > Bill > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46016	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Worms and mice in fry tank

Slightly freaked out now...since last night there are about fifty white worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You need a mag glass to see them, but once you are on that level, I would say the worms are about twice as long as the fry. No idea what that would be in cm or whatever, not visible to the naked eye - but honestly it's an outbreak. Is this OK? I just wish these babies would get off the floor. There is also something that looks like a mouse, it is white and scurries on the tank bottom. I have only seen two of the mice, and they are about the size of the fries' heads, so not too big. Reassurance appreciated! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46017	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

Just kidding Lainey, I'm not that bad-----but close! It was all goes to tank lighting, which I'm sure you will tell us about yours when you have more time, but also tank set-up.    I use powered UG filters in my 29 but not 20.  The 20 remains graveless, with a PF and running a large sponge filter.  The idea was to be just exactly where you are now with the "children".  Obviously, I never made that trip but to that end, we keep hoping.  I had a bad go around with algae and lost all but 1 ram.  I am beating the bushes now for more Rams, a lot more, that was another mistake the first time around!  Right now, I would settle for any.  Being a member here for a bit, I'm sure you have often heard of me not being able to buy fish, close around or as I like to say, within 30 miles.   Now I am contemplating on massive fish purchases and using that 20 long as a holding tank for them and then bring them over to the 29-gallon community tank a little at a time.  After all, is doesn't make any sense to start driving that distance for 2 fish does it?   Bill   --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thermometer photo and lotus > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 11:49 AM > Wow. I will post my info if you will > tell me how to kill the plastic  > ones! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:37 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > I think we all would. I have never done well with > plants and > > have even been known to kill the plastic ones! > > > > Bill > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46018	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior

They haven't even gone near them, but I left out the BN pleco's, they LOVE the eggs, LOL. I'm planning on moving those guys over to the 125 gallon at some point though, maybe after that I'll end up with baby cory's ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Amber, > > You were batting a 1,000 until you mentioned the hillstream loaches. > I'm pretty sure they would enjoy those eggs. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cory behavior > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 11:16 AM > > So after adding another powerhead to > > my 55 gallon tank last week I have > > now noticed my Cory's spawning twice in about a week and a > > half time > > frame now. I'm not sure what is causing the new behavior, > > but it's very > > interesting to watch. So far none have hatched and I'm fine > > with that, > > as I wasn't planning on breeding them, LOL. Do I have any > > chances on the > > babies surviving at all in a community tank with guppy's, > > shrimp, > > snails, and a few hillstream loaches? > > > > They seem to start right after the lights come on in the > > morning, and > > they are very active at night under the LED moon lights. > > Perhaps they > > just became sexually mature ;) > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46019	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: DIY CO2 for large tanks

Amber and Everyone - I will post my DIY CO2 details as I have time but here is a guy who uses it well for large tanks, and only two bottles: To: "apd" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com> Subject: DIY CO2 for large tanks From: "Wayne Jones" <waj at mnsi_net> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:29:47 -0500 I have a 90 gallon tank that I use DIY CO2 on with really good results. I use two 4 liter bottles in tandem and change each bottle alternately every 2 months. About the middle of the month I also add a little yeast nutrient to each bottle. The output is way more stable than you would imagine. The pH drops about .4 to .6 below my non-CO2 injection levels and in this range my plants grow very quickly. I could not get a bubble counter to work on this setup because the large volume of CO2 in the bottles causes several bubbles to be released at once making them impossible to count. I got around this by making a bubble counter out of a pop bottle filled with soapy water. The bubbles come out one at a time but you cannot leave the counter hooked up or soap bubbles will end up in your tank. I count the bubbles everyday and the bubble rate remains between 1.2 and .7 seconds per bubble over the two month period. I think this can be stabilized even more by adding yeast nutrient in week 3 and yeast energizer in week 5 but I have not been doing this for very long so I am not sure yet. Once I added yeast energizer to both bottles on the same day and the bubble count went up to .5 seconds per bubble for over a week this made me nervous so I don't do that anymore. This is not as good as pressurized to be sure but good enough for good results. The system requires weekly attention and 4 cups of sugar per month but is actually very little work. I am thinking of getting Discus though in my new 120 gallon and if I do I will switch to pressurized for a more stable system. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior

Sounds like you have a couple of h...., ummm... frisky teenagers on your hands. Time to get the shotgun out! ;-) Do you have caves for them yet? Are they using the caves? Once they do use the caves, your chances go up as they can guard the entrance, but if they are laying the eggs in open territory, they'll be hard pressed to keep the other fish/critters from enjoying their Caviar Corydoras. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cory behavior So after adding another powerhead to my 55 gallon tank last week I have now noticed my Cory's spawning twice in about a week and a half time frame now. I'm not sure what is causing the new behavior, but it's very interesting to watch. So far none have hatched and I'm fine with that, as I wasn't planning on breeding them, LOL. Do I have any chances on the babies surviving at all in a community tank with guppy's, shrimp, snails, and a few hillstream loaches? They seem to start right after the lights come on in the morning, and they are very active at night under the LED moon lights. Perhaps they just became sexually mature ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46021	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Fw: Koi

They do not get pregnant. They are egg scatterers and then the male fertilizes (with milt) the eggs outside of the female. When they are heavy with eggs, prior to scattering them, they will get a fuller belly but other health issues can also cause a swollen belly. What season are you in right now? Where are you and what zone are you in? If over-wintering, as most of the northern hemisphere is doing right now, did you follow proper procedures for preparing the fish for over-wintering outdoors? What size pond, water parameters, how many fish and types, how big, how old, how long have you had the pond, etc... the more info the better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jvpfish@... Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:07 AM To: Aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] Fw: Koi Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: jvpfish@... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 13:01:25 To: Aquaticlife<aquaticlife@...> Subject: Koi one of my koi looks like she is pregnant. How do I tell?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Thermometer photo and lotus

Here's the links I have for DIY CO2 and other info on them. To reach optimum CO2 saturation, you would need a lot but having even a couple of CO2 generators would still raise your CO2 levels a little. The Reactor is even more important for getting the most bang for your bubble. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_co2rig.htm (Simple Article on Generator) http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm (Simple Article on Reactor) http://web.archive.org/web/20080727031555/http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/d iyco2.html (All the details you could ever want on Generator and Reactor... and then some) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thermometer photo and lotus Do you have a link or anything of the setup for this DIY CO2 system? I found some online awhile back, but I was told I'd need a lot of them for my 125 gallon tank and they would take up too much room in the end. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Thanks, Amber. > > Since I have MTS, I had to stop using injected CO2 systems at a > certain point due to expense and amount of room they take up, and > switched over to do-it-yourself with a soda bottle, yeast and sugar > mixture. I am shocked at how well it works, even with just a 50cent > airstone. I know you have jumbo tanks, but you could set up three DIY > CO2 systems for like a few dollars, and you might be surprised at how > well this works for you. Another surprising aspect to me was how > totally easy it is to do. It takes me about three minutes to prepare > the mixture of sugar and yeast, then I add water, pour it in the soda > bottle, screw on the top with tubing and I'm done. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I'm slow, LOL > > You have a beautiful tank Lainey, I'm jealous at all those pretty > > plants > > ;) I can't afford a CO2 system yet, perhaps later this year. Either > > way my tank does pretty good, just wish my plants outcompeted my > > black beard algae a bit better ;) I have to trim their beards more > > often than I'd like to, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Here is a picture of the thermometers I am using. Also snuck in > >> some pictures of my exploding lotus tank. Today one of the leaves > >> went out of the water. > >> > >> Anyway, please let me know if these thermometers are unreliable. > >> > >> So far the ram wigglers are still wiggling - don't ask me how! > >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/> > >> pic/ > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/> > >> pic/> > >> list > >> > >> Thank you all, > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46023	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank

The worms could be planaria which are common to and harmless to normal fish tanks... but not sure if they would try to eat the wrigglers. Planaria are a natural part of a clean up crew and eat left over food, etc. that makes its way down into the substrate. When you start to see them on the glass sides of a tank, it means you aren't doing enough gravel vacuuming but on a bare bottomed tank, they would show up easily. They must have been growing under your rock and some eggs got transferred over with the rock. As far as the "mice"... not sure on that one. I've seen all kinds of critters in tanks over the years but have never seen a mini-water-mouse. ;-) Check out these pages of critters and things that naturally occur in our tanks and see if you can identify it and let us know. http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro.htm (page 1) http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro2.htm (page 2) http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank Slightly freaked out now...since last night there are about fifty white worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You need a mag glass to see them, but once you are on that level, I would say the worms are about twice as long as the fry. No idea what that would be in cm or whatever, not visible to the naked eye - but honestly it's an outbreak. Is this OK? I just wish these babies would get off the floor. There is also something that looks like a mouse, it is white and scurries on the tank bottom. I have only seen two of the mice, and they are about the size of the fries' heads, so not too big. Reassurance appreciated! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior

I put in several caves made out of flower pots and they use them to lounge in but don't seem inclined to lay any eggs in them, just the sides of the tank so far. Perhaps they will get it figured out eventually lol. There are 5 caves in different sizes. I wasn't sure if cory's even guard their eggs, they don't seem to be guarding them so far. As soon as I figure out the genders of my plecos I'm going to move the females down to the 125 gallon with my male albino bn pleco. If I have all males I'm going to move one to the angel fish tank I think. Will see. Amber On Jan 19, 2010 11:31 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Sounds like you have a couple of h...., ummm... frisky teenagers on your hands. Time to get the shotgun out! ;-) Do you have caves for them yet? Are they using the caves? Once they do use the caves, your chances go up as they can guard the entrance, but if they are laying the eggs in open territory, they'll be hard pressed to keep the other fish/critters from enjoying their Caviar Corydoras. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] ... So after adding another powerhead to my 55 gallon tank last week I have now noticed my Cory's spawni... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46025	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank

Thanks, Lenny - the worms look like "whiteworms". The mice look like salt water copepods, not sure what they could be in fresh. They scurry on the floor like little VW bugs. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 3:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > The worms could be planaria which are common to and harmless to > normal fish > tanks... but not sure if they would try to eat the wrigglers. > Planaria are > a natural part of a clean up crew and eat left over food, etc. that > makes > its way down into the substrate. When you start to see them on the > glass > sides of a tank, it means you aren't doing enough gravel vacuuming > but on a > bare bottomed tank, they would show up easily. They must have been > growing > under your rock and some eggs got transferred over with the rock. > > As far as the "mice"... not sure on that one. I've seen all kinds of > critters in tanks over the years but have never seen a mini-water- > mouse. ;-) > > Check out these pages of critters and things that naturally occur > in our > tanks and see if you can identify it and let us know. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http:// > www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m > icro.htm (page 1) > > http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http:// > www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m > icro2.htm (page 2) > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm > > http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml > > http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/ > pond/inde > x.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > Slightly freaked out now...since last night there are about fifty > white > worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You need a mag glass to see > them, > but once you are on that level, I would say the worms are about > twice as > long as the fry. No idea what that would be in cm or whatever, not > visible > to the naked eye - but honestly it's an outbreak. Is this OK? > > I just wish these babies would get off the floor. > > There is also something that looks like a mouse, it is white and > scurries on > the tank bottom. I have only seen two of the mice, and they are > about the > size of the fries' heads, so not too big. > > Reassurance appreciated! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..>< > ((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/ > `7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46026	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank

Mice? Any chance of getting out your digital camera and taking a film? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:11 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank Slightly freaked out now...since last night there are about fifty white worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You need a mag glass to see them, but once you are on that level, I would say the worms are about twice as long as the fry. No idea what that would be in cm or whatever, not visible to the naked eye - but honestly it's an outbreak. Is this OK? I just wish these babies would get off the floor. There is also something that looks like a mouse, it is white and scurries on the tank bottom. I have only seen two of the mice, and they are about the size of the fries' heads, so not too big. Reassurance appreciated! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46027	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank

They would not show up, you need to view through a magnifying glass. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > Mice? Any chance of getting out your digital camera and taking a film? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:11 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > Slightly freaked out now...since last night there are about fifty > white worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You need a mag glass to > see them, but once you are on that level, I would say the worms are > about twice as long as the fry. No idea what that would be in cm or > whatever, not visible to the naked eye - but honestly it's an > outbreak. Is this OK? > > I just wish these babies would get off the floor. > > There is also something that looks like a mouse, it is white and > scurries on the tank bottom. I have only seen two of the mice, and > they are about the size of the fries' heads, so not too big. > > Reassurance appreciated! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46028	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior

You know... I'm not sure if Corys do either... and they most likely do not. I had a brain fart and was thinking of certain plecos. Corys simply use the caves to shoal in if they choose but plecos are more likely to claim a cave as it's territory and defend it. I decided to Google a little to get that brain fart out of my head and Badman's site has the below snips on the respective Cory profiles. I copy/pasted a few since I wasn't sure what species of Corydoras you have. Check out Mongabay or PlanetCatfish for more details on the breeding habits of your particular species. Breeding: Adolfoi cory are open water/substratum egg scatterers. They do not guard their eggs. The eggs are sticky and will be carefully placed by the female on a flat plant leaf or stone. Typically 25 – 30 eggs are deposited. This fish is easy to spawn but ensuring the survival of the fry is more difficult. The fry must be reared on micro-cultures for the first week, water hardness must be below 6° dGH, and according to planetcatfish.com “ some breeders maintain that this species must be raised with its parents or other corydoras fry in order to learn to eat prepared foods.” Breeding: Corydoras Pygmaeus - Spawns in pairs or trios, depositing eggs one at a time on plants and glass around the tank. Courtship behavior consists of the female nudging the midsection of the male in typical cory “T” form. Females release one egg at a time which is held between the anal fins where it is fertilized by the male. The female then finds and cleans a surface in the tank where she deposits the egg. A female can produce as many as 100 eggs in a spawning cycle. Fry can be removed from the tank and raised separately from the parents. Feed liquifry initially, followed by microworms and then baby brine shrimp. Breeding: Corydoras arcuatus - One of the harder of the species to breed, Sexually mature specimens are easy to tell apart, the females have a more stout body and are less colorful. The males have a larger and more pointed Dorsal fin. Easier to sex when viewed from above. You should have a ratio of two males to each female. Courtship consists of the male touching the female with his snout and then the female will swim constantly around cleaning rocks or plant leaves in the tank. Then a male will grab the females barbals and twist his body into hers and she will release her egg pouches at the same time as the male sperm. This is repeated several times with the female taking the egg pouches and placing them at various locations throughout the tank. After spawning you can remove the parents from the tank. The eggs will hatch in about five to eight days and the young are not hard to raise and can be fed fine flake food or newly hatched brine shrimp (fresh or frozen). Growth is fairly rapid given proper conditions. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory behavior I put in several caves made out of flower pots and they use them to lounge in but don't seem inclined to lay any eggs in them, just the sides of the tank so far. Perhaps they will get it figured out eventually lol. There are 5 caves in different sizes. I wasn't sure if cory's even guard their eggs, they don't seem to be guarding them so far. As soon as I figure out the genders of my plecos I'm going to move the females down to the 125 gallon with my male albino bn pleco. If I have all males I'm going to move one to the angel fish tank I think. Will see. Amber On Jan 19, 2010 11:31 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: Sounds like you have a couple of h...., ummm... frisky teenagers on your hands. Time to get the shotgun out! ;-) Do you have caves for them yet? Are they using the caves? Once they do use the caves, your chances go up as they can guard the entrance, but if they are laying the eggs in open territory, they'll be hard pressed to keep the other fish/critters from enjoying their Caviar Corydoras. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] ... So after adding another powerhead to my 55 gallon tank last week I have now noticed my Cory's spawni...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank

You probably need to lift your rocks and vacuum under them on a regular basis so too much food doesn't build up under them. I do this with my driftwood and other decorations on a regular basis in my tanks and there's always a lot of detritus under them. Once again, you'll never get rid of all of the critters as they are natural to the ecosystem of an aquarium but you do want to limit their numbers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 2:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank Thanks, Lenny - the worms look like "whiteworms". The mice look like salt water copepods, not sure what they could be in fresh. They scurry on the floor like little VW bugs. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 3:53 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > The worms could be planaria which are common to and harmless to normal > fish tanks... but not sure if they would try to eat the wrigglers. > Planaria are > a natural part of a clean up crew and eat left over food, etc. that > makes its way down into the substrate. When you start to see them on > the glass sides of a tank, it means you aren't doing enough gravel > vacuuming but on a bare bottomed tank, they would show up easily. They > must have been growing under your rock and some eggs got transferred > over with the rock. > > As far as the "mice"... not sure on that one. I've seen all kinds of > critters in tanks over the years but have never seen a mini-water- > mouse. ;-) > > Check out these pages of critters and things that naturally occur in > our tanks and see if you can identify it and let us know. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http:// > www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m > icro.htm (page 1) > > http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http:// > www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m > icro2.htm (page 2) > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm > > http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml > > http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/ > pond/inde > x.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > Slightly freaked out now...since last night there are about fifty > white worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You need a mag glass to > see them, but once you are on that level, I would say the worms are > about twice as long as the fry. No idea what that would be in cm or > whatever, not visible to the naked eye - but honestly it's an > outbreak. Is this OK? > > I just wish these babies would get off the floor. > > There is also something that looks like a mouse, it is white and > scurries on the tank bottom. I have only seen two of the mice, and > they are about the size of the fries' heads, so not too big. > > Reassurance appreciated! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank

Lainey, At least you're not singing this song... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lYdD9DdLNY I like that version of it! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank They would not show up, you need to view through a magnifying glass. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > Mice? Any chance of getting out your digital camera and taking a film? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:11 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > Slightly freaked out now...since last night there are about fifty > white worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You need a mag glass to > see them, but once you are on that level, I would say the worms are > about twice as long as the fry. No idea what that would be in cm or > whatever, not visible to the naked eye - but honestly it's an > outbreak. Is this OK? > > I just wish these babies would get off the floor. > > There is also something that looks like a mouse, it is white and > scurries on the tank bottom. I have only seen two of the mice, and > they are about the size of the fries' heads, so not too big. > > Reassurance appreciated! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46031	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

I think the most important thing I have learned about using CO2 in planted tanks is that if the KH in the tank water is high, CO2 doesn't work well. My tap water had KH of 10 dKH and my plants did poorly. They could not absorb the CO2 properly and I kept adding more CO2 to the point where the fish started gasping for oxygen at the surface and still it wasn't enough for the plants. The plants could not pearl (produce oxygen) at any CO2 level that would be safe for fish. When I switched to RO water which has a low KH of 1 and added SeaChem Equilibrium or Kent RO Right, the CO2 began to work properly. The plants pearl easily and the fish have plenty of oxygen. So once you cross that hurdle, the DIY is pretty easy. 1. Buy a 2 litre, 1 litre or 4 litre plastic soda bottle, depending on the size of the tank. One litre works well for five and ten g tanks, 2 for twenty, then jump to 4. 2. Buy something to diffuse the CO2 into the water. Airstones work but are not too efficient as they produce large bubbles that aren't well dispersed into the water - a lot of CO2 will escape through the water surface. But they work. Microbubblers like this Rena model work very well as they break up the CO2 into tiny particles to be easily dissolved: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web Another, and probably the best way to diffuse the CO2 is with a CO2 diffuser like this: http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ co2reactor.asp I have used all of the above, and they all work. I think the diffuser is best, but certainly not necessary. 3. Buy a bunch of plastic tubing that will fit the chosen diffuser/ airstone/bubbler. Use a drill bit that fits the diameter of the tubing to drill a hole in the top of the soda bottle, and pull the tubing through the hole a little ways with pliers. The hole has to make a tight fit around the tubing. 4. Mix 2 cups of white sugar, 1/2 teaspoon baking soda (to maintain high pH), and 1 teaspoon baker's yeast. Dissolve this mixture in tepid water, stirring until it's all dissolved. Pour this into the chosen bottle and add enough tepid water to fill the bottle to 3/4. 5. Screw on the top with the tubing, attach the non-top end of the tubing to the airstone/diffuser and stick the diffuser/stone into the tank. Bubbles should come within a few hours. Make sure to position the soda bottle lower than the tank to avoid any of the yeast syrup backdrafting into the tank. I like to remove the diffuser or airstone each night to prevent a CO2 OD to the fish during the night when plants are not using CO2 to photosynthesize. DIY CO2 has been known to kill fish overnight when not removed. This mixture should last a week or two before the bubbles slow down. I think I would use four cups of sugar, 1 t baking soda and 2 t yeast for the 4 litre bottle, but I use 2 cups sugar/1/2 t BS/1 t yeast for both the 2 litre and the 1 litre and it seems to work the same. It can be really useful to have a CO2 indicator to tell you how much CO2 you have in the water, but it's not absolutely necessary: http:// www.marinedepot.com/ Red_Sea_CO2_Indicator_CO2_Indicator_Solution_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea- RS2311-FICOIS-vi.html Another way to tell what's going on is: if the plants aren't pearling there's too little CO2, and if the fish are gasping at the water surface there's too much. But usually, DIY won't get you to the point of gasping fish within a twelve hour daylight period. Here are photos of my DIY tanks and set up: http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46032	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: For Ray - wiggler question

Hi Ray - Tonight is the night you calculated the wigglers would fly - so far nothing. Should I be worried? Is there anything to do to help them get up off the floor? Should I start feeding even though they're still on the floor? I see them spinning around trying to get up, but it's not happening...I'm concerned that they have run out of food/egg sack. Also, what if they become airborne while I'm asleep? Will they be OK with no food until morning, or should I get up and check/feed in the middle of the night. Thanks so much for all your help...obviously, I need it. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46033	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior

Sorry 3 wrong guesses on type of Cory's ;) LOL. I have albino aenus cory's, but I will check mongabay and see what they say about their breeding habits, thanks. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You know... I'm not sure if Corys do either... and they most likely do > not. > I had a brain fart and was thinking of certain plecos. Corys simply > use the > caves to shoal in if they choose but plecos are more likely to claim a > cave > as it's territory and defend it. > > I decided to Google a little to get that brain fart out of my head and > Badman's site has the below snips on the respective Cory profiles. I > copy/pasted a few since I wasn't sure what species of Corydoras you have. > Check out Mongabay or PlanetCatfish for more details on the breeding > habits > of your particular species. > > Breeding: > Adolfoi cory are open water/substratum egg scatterers. They do not guard > their eggs. The eggs are sticky and will be carefully placed by the female > on a flat plant leaf or stone. Typically 25 – 30 eggs are deposited. This > fish is easy to spawn but ensuring the survival of the fry is more > difficult. The fry must be reared on micro-cultures for the first week, > water hardness must be below 6° dGH, and according to planetcatfish.com > “…some breeders maintain that this species must be raised with its parents > or other corydoras fry in order to learn to eat prepared foods.” > > Breeding: > Corydoras Pygmaeus - Spawns in pairs or trios, depositing eggs one at > a time > on plants and glass around the tank. Courtship behavior consists of the > female nudging the midsection of the male in typical cory “T” form. > Females > release one egg at a time which is held between the anal fins where it is > fertilized by the male. The female then finds and cleans a surface in the > tank where she deposits the egg. A female can produce as many as 100 > eggs in > a spawning cycle. Fry can be removed from the tank and raised separately > from the parents. Feed liquifry initially, followed by microworms and then > baby brine shrimp. > > Breeding: > Corydoras arcuatus - One of the harder of the species to breed, Sexually > mature specimens are easy to tell apart, the females have a more stout > body > and are less colorful. The males have a larger and more pointed Dorsal > fin. > Easier to sex when viewed from above. You should have a ratio of two males > to each female. Courtship consists of the male touching the female > with his > snout and then the female will swim constantly around cleaning rocks or > plant leaves in the tank. Then a male will grab the females barbals and > twist his body into hers and she will release her egg pouches at the same > time as the male sperm. This is repeated several times with the female > taking the egg pouches and placing them at various locations > throughout the > tank. After spawning you can remove the parents from the tank. The > eggs will > hatch in about five to eight days and the young are not hard to raise and > can be fed fine flake food or newly hatched brine shrimp (fresh or > frozen). > Growth is fairly rapid given proper conditions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory behavior > > I put in several caves made out of flower pots and they use them to lounge > in but don't seem inclined to lay any eggs in them, just the sides of the > tank so far. Perhaps they will get it figured out eventually lol. > There are > 5 caves in different sizes. I wasn't sure if cory's even guard their eggs, > they don't seem to be guarding them so far. > As soon as I figure out the genders of my plecos I'm going to move the > females down to the 125 gallon with my male albino bn pleco. If I have all > males I'm going to move one to the angel fish tank I think. Will see. > > Amber > > On Jan 19, 2010 11:31 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > Sounds like you have a couple of h...., ummm... frisky teenagers on your > hands. Time to get the shotgun out! ;-) > > Do you have caves for them yet? Are they using the caves? Once they do use > the caves, your chances go up as they can guard the entrance, but if they > are laying the eggs in open territory, they'll be hard pressed to keep the > other fish/critters from enjoying their Caviar Corydoras. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] ... > > So after adding another powerhead to my 55 gallon tank last week I > have now > noticed my Cory's spawni... > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46034	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Thanks Lainey, I saved this to look back at later when I have time and money to set something up. My only concern is how fast the plants will grow. Right now I have to trim up my tank, it's horridly overgrown, I think there's more plants than water (okay maybe an over exaggeration but it sure looks like it, LOL). How often do you need to trim your plants using your DIY CO2 system? Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I think the most important thing I have learned about using CO2 in > planted tanks is that if the KH in the tank water is high, CO2 > doesn't work well. My tap water had KH of 10 dKH and my plants did > poorly. They could not absorb the CO2 properly and I kept adding more > CO2 to the point where the fish started gasping for oxygen at the > surface and still it wasn't enough for the plants. The plants could > not pearl (produce oxygen) at any CO2 level that would be safe for > fish. When I switched to RO water which has a low KH of 1 and added > SeaChem Equilibrium or Kent RO Right, the CO2 began to work properly. > The plants pearl easily and the fish have plenty of oxygen. > > So once you cross that hurdle, the DIY is pretty easy. > > 1. Buy a 2 litre, 1 litre or 4 litre plastic soda bottle, depending > on the size of the tank. One litre works well for five and ten g > tanks, 2 for twenty, then jump to 4. > > 2. Buy something to diffuse the CO2 into the water. Airstones work > but are not too efficient as they produce large bubbles that aren't > well dispersed into the water - a lot of CO2 will escape through the > water surface. But they work. Microbubblers like this Rena model work > very well as they break up the CO2 into tiny particles to be easily > dissolved: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web> > > Another, and probably the best way to diffuse the CO2 is with a CO2 > diffuser like this: http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/> > co2reactor.asp I have used all of the above, and they all work. I > think the diffuser is best, but certainly not necessary. > > 3. Buy a bunch of plastic tubing that will fit the chosen diffuser/ > airstone/bubbler. Use a drill bit that fits the diameter of the > tubing to drill a hole in the top of the soda bottle, and pull the > tubing through the hole a little ways with pliers. The hole has to > make a tight fit around the tubing. > > 4. Mix 2 cups of white sugar, 1/2 teaspoon baking soda (to maintain > high pH), and 1 teaspoon baker's yeast. Dissolve this mixture in > tepid water, stirring until it's all dissolved. Pour this into the > chosen bottle and add enough tepid water to fill the bottle to 3/4. > > 5. Screw on the top with the tubing, attach the non-top end of the > tubing to the airstone/diffuser and stick the diffuser/stone into the > tank. Bubbles should come within a few hours. Make sure to position > the soda bottle lower than the tank to avoid any of the yeast syrup > backdrafting into the tank. > > I like to remove the diffuser or airstone each night to prevent a CO2 > OD to the fish during the night when plants are not using CO2 to > photosynthesize. DIY CO2 has been known to kill fish overnight when > not removed. This mixture should last a week or two before the > bubbles slow down. I think I would use four cups of sugar, 1 t baking > soda and 2 t yeast for the 4 litre bottle, but I use 2 cups sugar/1/2 > t BS/1 t yeast for both the 2 litre and the 1 litre and it seems to > work the same. > > It can be really useful to have a CO2 indicator to tell you how much > CO2 you have in the water, but it's not absolutely necessary: http:// > www.marinedepot.com/ > Red_Sea_CO2_Indicator_CO2_Indicator_Solution_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea- > RS2311-FICOIS-vi.html > > Another way to tell what's going on is: if the plants aren't pearling > there's too little CO2, and if the fish are gasping at the water > surface there's too much. But usually, DIY won't get you to the > point of gasping fish within a twelve hour daylight period. > > Here are photos of my DIY tanks and set up: http://groups.yahoo.com/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/> > group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46035	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

About once a week. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:06 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Thanks Lainey, I saved this to look back at later when I have time and > money to set something up. > My only concern is how fast the plants will grow. Right now I have to > trim up my tank, it's horridly overgrown, I think there's more plants > than water (okay maybe an over exaggeration but it sure looks like > it, LOL). > How often do you need to trim your plants using your DIY CO2 system? > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I think the most important thing I have learned about using CO2 in >> planted tanks is that if the KH in the tank water is high, CO2 >> doesn't work well. My tap water had KH of 10 dKH and my plants did >> poorly. They could not absorb the CO2 properly and I kept adding more >> CO2 to the point where the fish started gasping for oxygen at the >> surface and still it wasn't enough for the plants. The plants could >> not pearl (produce oxygen) at any CO2 level that would be safe for >> fish. When I switched to RO water which has a low KH of 1 and added >> SeaChem Equilibrium or Kent RO Right, the CO2 began to work properly. >> The plants pearl easily and the fish have plenty of oxygen. >> >> So once you cross that hurdle, the DIY is pretty easy. >> >> 1. Buy a 2 litre, 1 litre or 4 litre plastic soda bottle, depending >> on the size of the tank. One litre works well for five and ten g >> tanks, 2 for twenty, then jump to 4. >> >> 2. Buy something to diffuse the CO2 into the water. Airstones work >> but are not too efficient as they produce large bubbles that aren't >> well dispersed into the water - a lot of CO2 will escape through the >> water surface. But they work. Microbubblers like this Rena model work >> very well as they break up the CO2 into tiny particles to be easily >> dissolved: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web >> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web> >> >> Another, and probably the best way to diffuse the CO2 is with a CO2 >> diffuser like this: http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ >> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/> >> co2reactor.asp I have used all of the above, and they all work. I >> think the diffuser is best, but certainly not necessary. >> >> 3. Buy a bunch of plastic tubing that will fit the chosen diffuser/ >> airstone/bubbler. Use a drill bit that fits the diameter of the >> tubing to drill a hole in the top of the soda bottle, and pull the >> tubing through the hole a little ways with pliers. The hole has to >> make a tight fit around the tubing. >> >> 4. Mix 2 cups of white sugar, 1/2 teaspoon baking soda (to maintain >> high pH), and 1 teaspoon baker's yeast. Dissolve this mixture in >> tepid water, stirring until it's all dissolved. Pour this into the >> chosen bottle and add enough tepid water to fill the bottle to 3/4. >> >> 5. Screw on the top with the tubing, attach the non-top end of the >> tubing to the airstone/diffuser and stick the diffuser/stone into the >> tank. Bubbles should come within a few hours. Make sure to position >> the soda bottle lower than the tank to avoid any of the yeast syrup >> backdrafting into the tank. >> >> I like to remove the diffuser or airstone each night to prevent a CO2 >> OD to the fish during the night when plants are not using CO2 to >> photosynthesize. DIY CO2 has been known to kill fish overnight when >> not removed. This mixture should last a week or two before the >> bubbles slow down. I think I would use four cups of sugar, 1 t baking >> soda and 2 t yeast for the 4 litre bottle, but I use 2 cups sugar/1/2 >> t BS/1 t yeast for both the 2 litre and the 1 litre and it seems to >> work the same. >> >> It can be really useful to have a CO2 indicator to tell you how much >> CO2 you have in the water, but it's not absolutely necessary: http:// >> www.marinedepot.com/ >> Red_Sea_CO2_Indicator_CO2_Indicator_Solution_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea- >> RS2311-FICOIS-vi.html >> >> Another way to tell what's going on is: if the plants aren't pearling >> there's too little CO2, and if the fish are gasping at the water >> surface there's too much. But usually, DIY won't get you to the >> point of gasping fish within a twelve hour daylight period. >> >> Here are photos of my DIY tanks and set up: http://groups.yahoo.com/ >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/> >> group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46036	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Cory behavior

I think I know why they are spawning now, I lowered the temps a little before the hillstream loaches were shipped, then a little more after they got here, so the temp in the tank is about 2 degrees lower. I was running it at 80, it's averaging about 78 during the day. I'd like to get it down to 76 but it seems darn near impossible to keep my house cooler than 78 upstairs, even when I turn the heat down in the lower half of the unit. I get a lot of radiant heat from the boiler below my unit, it's nice to help heat the condo I suppose, but my heat costs the same regardless, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You know... I'm not sure if Corys do either... and they most likely do > not. > I had a brain fart and was thinking of certain plecos. Corys simply > use the > caves to shoal in if they choose but plecos are more likely to claim a > cave > as it's territory and defend it. > > I decided to Google a little to get that brain fart out of my head and > Badman's site has the below snips on the respective Cory profiles. I > copy/pasted a few since I wasn't sure what species of Corydoras you have. > Check out Mongabay or PlanetCatfish for more details on the breeding > habits > of your particular species. > > Breeding: > Adolfoi cory are open water/substratum egg scatterers. They do not guard > their eggs. The eggs are sticky and will be carefully placed by the female > on a flat plant leaf or stone. Typically 25 – 30 eggs are deposited. This > fish is easy to spawn but ensuring the survival of the fry is more > difficult. The fry must be reared on micro-cultures for the first week, > water hardness must be below 6° dGH, and according to planetcatfish.com > “…some breeders maintain that this species must be raised with its parents > or other corydoras fry in order to learn to eat prepared foods.” > > Breeding: > Corydoras Pygmaeus - Spawns in pairs or trios, depositing eggs one at > a time > on plants and glass around the tank. Courtship behavior consists of the > female nudging the midsection of the male in typical cory “T” form. > Females > release one egg at a time which is held between the anal fins where it is > fertilized by the male. The female then finds and cleans a surface in the > tank where she deposits the egg. A female can produce as many as 100 > eggs in > a spawning cycle. Fry can be removed from the tank and raised separately > from the parents. Feed liquifry initially, followed by microworms and then > baby brine shrimp. > > Breeding: > Corydoras arcuatus - One of the harder of the species to breed, Sexually > mature specimens are easy to tell apart, the females have a more stout > body > and are less colorful. The males have a larger and more pointed Dorsal > fin. > Easier to sex when viewed from above. You should have a ratio of two males > to each female. Courtship consists of the male touching the female > with his > snout and then the female will swim constantly around cleaning rocks or > plant leaves in the tank. Then a male will grab the females barbals and > twist his body into hers and she will release her egg pouches at the same > time as the male sperm. This is repeated several times with the female > taking the egg pouches and placing them at various locations > throughout the > tank. After spawning you can remove the parents from the tank. The > eggs will > hatch in about five to eight days and the young are not hard to raise and > can be fed fine flake food or newly hatched brine shrimp (fresh or > frozen). > Growth is fairly rapid given proper conditions. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: RE: [AquaticLife] Cory behavior > > I put in several caves made out of flower pots and they use them to lounge > in but don't seem inclined to lay any eggs in them, just the sides of the > tank so far. Perhaps they will get it figured out eventually lol. > There are > 5 caves in different sizes. I wasn't sure if cory's even guard their eggs, > they don't seem to be guarding them so far. > As soon as I figure out the genders of my plecos I'm going to move the > females down to the 125 gallon with my male albino bn pleco. If I have all > males I'm going to move one to the angel fish tank I think. Will see. > > Amber > > On Jan 19, 2010 11:31 AM, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > Sounds like you have a couple of h...., ummm... frisky teenagers on your > hands. Time to get the shotgun out! ;-) > > Do you have caves for them yet? Are they using the caves? Once they do use > the caves, your chances go up as they can guard the entrance, but if they > are laying the eggs in open territory, they'll be hard pressed to keep the > other fish/critters from enjoying their Caviar Corydoras. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] ... > > So after adding another powerhead to my 55 gallon tank last week I > have now > noticed my Cory's spawni... > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46037	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Do you throw all your plant cuttings away? I feel slightly bad throwing them away, but I'm not sure if I want to go to all the effort to sell them on aquabid.com either, LOL. Anyone need enough plants to probably fill a 55 gallon? ;) LOL Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > About once a week. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:06 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Thanks Lainey, I saved this to look back at later when I have time and > > money to set something up. > > My only concern is how fast the plants will grow. Right now I have to > > trim up my tank, it's horridly overgrown, I think there's more plants > > than water (okay maybe an over exaggeration but it sure looks like > > it, LOL). > > How often do you need to trim your plants using your DIY CO2 system? > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> I think the most important thing I have learned about using CO2 in > >> planted tanks is that if the KH in the tank water is high, CO2 > >> doesn't work well. My tap water had KH of 10 dKH and my plants did > >> poorly. They could not absorb the CO2 properly and I kept adding more > >> CO2 to the point where the fish started gasping for oxygen at the > >> surface and still it wasn't enough for the plants. The plants could > >> not pearl (produce oxygen) at any CO2 level that would be safe for > >> fish. When I switched to RO water which has a low KH of 1 and added > >> SeaChem Equilibrium or Kent RO Right, the CO2 began to work properly. > >> The plants pearl easily and the fish have plenty of oxygen. > >> > >> So once you cross that hurdle, the DIY is pretty easy. > >> > >> 1. Buy a 2 litre, 1 litre or 4 litre plastic soda bottle, depending > >> on the size of the tank. One litre works well for five and ten g > >> tanks, 2 for twenty, then jump to 4. > >> > >> 2. Buy something to diffuse the CO2 into the water. Airstones work > >> but are not too efficient as they produce large bubbles that aren't > >> well dispersed into the water - a lot of CO2 will escape through the > >> water surface. But they work. Microbubblers like this Rena model work > >> very well as they break up the CO2 into tiny particles to be easily > >> dissolved: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web> > >> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web>> > >> > >> Another, and probably the best way to diffuse the CO2 is with a CO2 > >> diffuser like this: http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/> > >> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/>> > >> co2reactor.asp I have used all of the above, and they all work. I > >> think the diffuser is best, but certainly not necessary. > >> > >> 3. Buy a bunch of plastic tubing that will fit the chosen diffuser/ > >> airstone/bubbler. Use a drill bit that fits the diameter of the > >> tubing to drill a hole in the top of the soda bottle, and pull the > >> tubing through the hole a little ways with pliers. The hole has to > >> make a tight fit around the tubing. > >> > >> 4. Mix 2 cups of white sugar, 1/2 teaspoon baking soda (to maintain > >> high pH), and 1 teaspoon baker's yeast. Dissolve this mixture in > >> tepid water, stirring until it's all dissolved. Pour this into the > >> chosen bottle and add enough tepid water to fill the bottle to 3/4. > >> > >> 5. Screw on the top with the tubing, attach the non-top end of the > >> tubing to the airstone/diffuser and stick the diffuser/stone into the > >> tank. Bubbles should come within a few hours. Make sure to position > >> the soda bottle lower than the tank to avoid any of the yeast syrup > >> backdrafting into the tank. > >> > >> I like to remove the diffuser or airstone each night to prevent a CO2 > >> OD to the fish during the night when plants are not using CO2 to > >> photosynthesize. DIY CO2 has been known to kill fish overnight when > >> not removed. This mixture should last a week or two before the > >> bubbles slow down. I think I would use four cups of sugar, 1 t baking > >> soda and 2 t yeast for the 4 litre bottle, but I use 2 cups sugar/1/2 > >> t BS/1 t yeast for both the 2 litre and the 1 litre and it seems to > >> work the same. > >> > >> It can be really useful to have a CO2 indicator to tell you how much > >> CO2 you have in the water, but it's not absolutely necessary: http:// > >> www.marinedepot.com/ > >> Red_Sea_CO2_Indicator_CO2_Indicator_Solution_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea- > >> RS2311-FICOIS-vi.html > >> > >> Another way to tell what's going on is: if the plants aren't pearling > >> there's too little CO2, and if the fish are gasping at the water > >> surface there's too much. But usually, DIY won't get you to the > >> point of gasping fish within a twelve hour daylight period. > >> > >> Here are photos of my DIY tanks and set up: > http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/> > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/>> > >> group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46038	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

So far I have been replanting them and developing my MTS, but I don't know what to do next. I feel nervous about using Planted Tank or something similar (auctions) where you get all these grading reports as a seller - what if someone slammed me for some mistake I made? I just don't like that. But I'm a half hour from the post office, so I don't know. If you could get rid of that BBA I would love to trade with you! I guess that would be best, to find someone nice to trade with... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Do you throw all your plant cuttings away? > I feel slightly bad throwing them away, but I'm not sure if I want > to go > to all the effort to sell them on aquabid.com either, LOL. > Anyone need enough plants to probably fill a 55 gallon? ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> About once a week. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:06 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> Thanks Lainey, I saved this to look back at later when I have >>> time and >>> money to set something up. >>> My only concern is how fast the plants will grow. Right now I >>> have to >>> trim up my tank, it's horridly overgrown, I think there's more >>> plants >>> than water (okay maybe an over exaggeration but it sure looks like >>> it, LOL). >>> How often do you need to trim your plants using your DIY CO2 system? >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> I think the most important thing I have learned about using CO2 in >>>> planted tanks is that if the KH in the tank water is high, CO2 >>>> doesn't work well. My tap water had KH of 10 dKH and my plants did >>>> poorly. They could not absorb the CO2 properly and I kept adding >>>> more >>>> CO2 to the point where the fish started gasping for oxygen at the >>>> surface and still it wasn't enough for the plants. The plants could >>>> not pearl (produce oxygen) at any CO2 level that would be safe for >>>> fish. When I switched to RO water which has a low KH of 1 and added >>>> SeaChem Equilibrium or Kent RO Right, the CO2 began to work >>>> properly. >>>> The plants pearl easily and the fish have plenty of oxygen. >>>> >>>> So once you cross that hurdle, the DIY is pretty easy. >>>> >>>> 1. Buy a 2 litre, 1 litre or 4 litre plastic soda bottle, depending >>>> on the size of the tank. One litre works well for five and ten g >>>> tanks, 2 for twenty, then jump to 4. >>>> >>>> 2. Buy something to diffuse the CO2 into the water. Airstones work >>>> but are not too efficient as they produce large bubbles that aren't >>>> well dispersed into the water - a lot of CO2 will escape through >>>> the >>>> water surface. But they work. Microbubblers like this Rena model >>>> work >>>> very well as they break up the CO2 into tiny particles to be easily >>>> dissolved: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web >> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web> >>>> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web >> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web>> >>>> >>>> Another, and probably the best way to diffuse the CO2 is with a CO2 >>>> diffuser like this: http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ >> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/> >>>> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ >> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/>> >>>> co2reactor.asp I have used all of the above, and they all work. I >>>> think the diffuser is best, but certainly not necessary. >>>> >>>> 3. Buy a bunch of plastic tubing that will fit the chosen diffuser/ >>>> airstone/bubbler. Use a drill bit that fits the diameter of the >>>> tubing to drill a hole in the top of the soda bottle, and pull the >>>> tubing through the hole a little ways with pliers. The hole has to >>>> make a tight fit around the tubing. >>>> >>>> 4. Mix 2 cups of white sugar, 1/2 teaspoon baking soda (to maintain >>>> high pH), and 1 teaspoon baker's yeast. Dissolve this mixture in >>>> tepid water, stirring until it's all dissolved. Pour this into the >>>> chosen bottle and add enough tepid water to fill the bottle to 3/4. >>>> >>>> 5. Screw on the top with the tubing, attach the non-top end of the >>>> tubing to the airstone/diffuser and stick the diffuser/stone >>>> into the >>>> tank. Bubbles should come within a few hours. Make sure to position >>>> the soda bottle lower than the tank to avoid any of the yeast syrup >>>> backdrafting into the tank. >>>> >>>> I like to remove the diffuser or airstone each night to prevent >>>> a CO2 >>>> OD to the fish during the night when plants are not using CO2 to >>>> photosynthesize. DIY CO2 has been known to kill fish overnight when >>>> not removed. This mixture should last a week or two before the >>>> bubbles slow down. I think I would use four cups of sugar, 1 t >>>> baking >>>> soda and 2 t yeast for the 4 litre bottle, but I use 2 cups >>>> sugar/1/2 >>>> t BS/1 t yeast for both the 2 litre and the 1 litre and it seems to >>>> work the same. >>>> >>>> It can be really useful to have a CO2 indicator to tell you how >>>> much >>>> CO2 you have in the water, but it's not absolutely necessary: >>>> http:// >>>> www.marinedepot.com/ >>>> Red_Sea_CO2_Indicator_CO2_Indicator_Solution_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea- >>>> RS2311-FICOIS-vi.html >>>> >>>> Another way to tell what's going on is: if the plants aren't >>>> pearling >>>> there's too little CO2, and if the fish are gasping at the water >>>> surface there's too much. But usually, DIY won't get you to the >>>> point of gasping fish within a twelve hour daylight period. >>>> >>>> Here are photos of my DIY tanks and set up: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/> >>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/>> >>>> group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> Thank You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> ((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >>> subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >>> and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive >> individual e- >>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46039	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Not all my plants have BBA, it's mostly just the oldest plants that're slow growing. Any baby plants I have are nice and green and healthy, which is what I'd be cutting off, I'd throw away anything with BBA on it, as I wouldn't want to share it with anyone else, LOL (horrid stuff). Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > So far I have been replanting them and developing my MTS, but I don't > know what to do next. I feel nervous about using Planted Tank or > something similar (auctions) where you get all these grading reports > as a seller - what if someone slammed me for some mistake I made? I > just don't like that. But I'm a half hour from the post office, so I > don't know. If you could get rid of that BBA I would love to trade > with you! > > I guess that would be best, to find someone nice to trade with... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Do you throw all your plant cuttings away? > > I feel slightly bad throwing them away, but I'm not sure if I want > > to go > > to all the effort to sell them on aquabid.com either, LOL. > > Anyone need enough plants to probably fill a 55 gallon? ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> About once a week. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:06 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks Lainey, I saved this to look back at later when I have > >>> time and > >>> money to set something up. > >>> My only concern is how fast the plants will grow. Right now I > >>> have to > >>> trim up my tank, it's horridly overgrown, I think there's more > >>> plants > >>> than water (okay maybe an over exaggeration but it sure looks like > >>> it, LOL). > >>> How often do you need to trim your plants using your DIY CO2 system? > >>> > >>> Amber > >>> > >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I think the most important thing I have learned about using CO2 in > >>>> planted tanks is that if the KH in the tank water is high, CO2 > >>>> doesn't work well. My tap water had KH of 10 dKH and my plants did > >>>> poorly. They could not absorb the CO2 properly and I kept adding > >>>> more > >>>> CO2 to the point where the fish started gasping for oxygen at the > >>>> surface and still it wasn't enough for the plants. The plants could > >>>> not pearl (produce oxygen) at any CO2 level that would be safe for > >>>> fish. When I switched to RO water which has a low KH of 1 and added > >>>> SeaChem Equilibrium or Kent RO Right, the CO2 began to work > >>>> properly. > >>>> The plants pearl easily and the fish have plenty of oxygen. > >>>> > >>>> So once you cross that hurdle, the DIY is pretty easy. > >>>> > >>>> 1. Buy a 2 litre, 1 litre or 4 litre plastic soda bottle, depending > >>>> on the size of the tank. One litre works well for five and ten g > >>>> tanks, 2 for twenty, then jump to 4. > >>>> > >>>> 2. Buy something to diffuse the CO2 into the water. Airstones work > >>>> but are not too efficient as they produce large bubbles that aren't > >>>> well dispersed into the water - a lot of CO2 will escape through > >>>> the > >>>> water surface. But they work. Microbubblers like this Rena model > >>>> work > >>>> very well as they break up the CO2 into tiny particles to be easily > >>>> dissolved: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web> > >> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web>> > >>>> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web> > >> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web>>> > >>>> > >>>> Another, and probably the best way to diffuse the CO2 is with a CO2 > >>>> diffuser like this: http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/> > >> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/>> > >>>> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/> > >> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/>>> > >>>> co2reactor.asp I have used all of the above, and they all work. I > >>>> think the diffuser is best, but certainly not necessary. > >>>> > >>>> 3. Buy a bunch of plastic tubing that will fit the chosen diffuser/ > >>>> airstone/bubbler. Use a drill bit that fits the diameter of the > >>>> tubing to drill a hole in the top of the soda bottle, and pull the > >>>> tubing through the hole a little ways with pliers. The hole has to > >>>> make a tight fit around the tubing. > >>>> > >>>> 4. Mix 2 cups of white sugar, 1/2 teaspoon baking soda (to maintain > >>>> high pH), and 1 teaspoon baker's yeast. Dissolve this mixture in > >>>> tepid water, stirring until it's all dissolved. Pour this into the > >>>> chosen bottle and add enough tepid water to fill the bottle to 3/4. > >>>> > >>>> 5. Screw on the top with the tubing, attach the non-top end of the > >>>> tubing to the airstone/diffuser and stick the diffuser/stone > >>>> into the > >>>> tank. Bubbles should come within a few hours. Make sure to position > >>>> the soda bottle lower than the tank to avoid any of the yeast syrup > >>>> backdrafting into the tank. > >>>> > >>>> I like to remove the diffuser or airstone each night to prevent > >>>> a CO2 > >>>> OD to the fish during the night when plants are not using CO2 to > >>>> photosynthesize. DIY CO2 has been known to kill fish overnight when > >>>> not removed. This mixture should last a week or two before the > >>>> bubbles slow down. I think I would use four cups of sugar, 1 t > >>>> baking > >>>> soda and 2 t yeast for the 4 litre bottle, but I use 2 cups > >>>> sugar/1/2 > >>>> t BS/1 t yeast for both the 2 litre and the 1 litre and it seems to > >>>> work the same. > >>>> > >>>> It can be really useful to have a CO2 indicator to tell you how > >>>> much > >>>> CO2 you have in the water, but it's not absolutely necessary: > >>>> http:// > >>>> www.marinedepot.com/ > >>>> Red_Sea_CO2_Indicator_CO2_Indicator_Solution_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea- > >>>> RS2311-FICOIS-vi.html > >>>> > >>>> Another way to tell what's going on is: if the plants aren't > >>>> pearling > >>>> there's too little CO2, and if the fish are gasping at the water > >>>> surface there's too much. But usually, DIY won't get you to the > >>>> point of gasping fish within a twelve hour daylight period. > >>>> > >>>> Here are photos of my DIY tanks and set up: > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/>> > >>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/>>> > >>>> group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list > >>>> > >>>> Lainey > >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> <http:// > >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >>>> > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> Thank You. > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > >>> ((((º> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >>> subject)" <- > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >>> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > >>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > >>> and post replies. > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > >> individual e- > >>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46040	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question

It generally takes about 3 1/2 to 4 days from the time they hatch until the time they become free-swimming, depending on the temperature. Since your temperature dipped down to 72 o at one point and needed time to come back up, it looks like it's going to be closer to 4 days (or even a bit more). As you first saw there were eggs on Saturday morning, that means that you will probably not see them free-swimming until Wednesday morning at the earliest -- and possibly later because of the set back. I doubt very much that they'll start swimming tonight. IF they do, they'll be fine until morning when you can feed them. If you're up to it, you could get up during the night to check on them. DO NOT FEED them now, and don't feed them if you only see part of them swimming. I think I mentioned it can take up to a couple of hours before they're all free-swimming when they first start to. So even if 75% of them are swimming, don't feed them yet at that time. They won't starve out to wait an extra 1/2 hour until the remaining fry are free-swimming, before being fed. Some activity, such as what you're seeing, is normal before they actually swim. Of course, the cooling off period may have affected them in properly developing their air bladder, in which case you'll need to write them off as being lost since they'll remain as belly-sliders -- although I really tend to doubt this. I only mention it as you're presently seeing them spinning around. If this continues into the latter part of tomorrow, then you'll know this is what happened. Holding off on feeding them until they're all free-swimming will prevent the late swimmers from becoming belly-sliders which, if they are otherwise developing properly, this is the purpose for waiting -- to prevent the stragglers from becoming belly-sliders which they well may if fed before they can reach the surface to fill their air bladder (note: they may not all find it necessary to do this). They shouldn't yet have depleted their egg sack even though they should being appearing thinner at this point. They will swim when they're ready, so just be patient. You may want to think about hatching more BBS if you think you'll need it for the following few days, as even though you're refrigerating it, it only survives just so long. You don't want to be caught with nothing but dead BBS when it's time to feed them. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46041	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank

Now I don't know for sure about Lainey, but I ran quick and put on another pot of coffee on! Bill --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 5:24 PM > Lainey, > > At least you're not singing this song... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lYdD9DdLNY > > I like that version of it! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > They would not show up, you need to view through a > magnifying glass. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > > > Mice? Any chance of getting out your digital camera > and taking a film? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:11 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > > > Slightly freaked out now...since last night there are > about fifty > > white worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You need > a mag glass to > > see them, but once you are on that level, I would say > the worms are > > about twice as long as the fry. No idea what that > would be in cm or > > whatever, not visible to the naked eye - but honestly > it's an > > outbreak. Is this OK? > > > > I just wish these babies would get off the floor. > > > > There is also something that looks like a mouse, it is > white and > > scurries on the tank bottom. I have only seen two of > the mice, and > > they are about the size of the fries' heads, so not > too big. > > > > Reassurance appreciated! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE > all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46042	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

While pearling is a good thing, as it lets you know your plants are doing well and are over-achieving, the O2 bubbles that you see are not the ones that will benefit the fish. It's microscopic oxygen molecules released by the plants that are saturated into the water that benefit the fish. Pearling means that the water can no longer handle any more saturated O2 so it just builds up on the plant leaves until a bubble forms and when the bubble grows to a certain size, it floats away from the plant, up to the surface and pops, release the O2 into your home... so I guess it's still a good thing, except it's good for you instead of the fish. I guess what I'm trying to clarify is that you do NOT need pearling in order to get the benefits of photosynthesis with the plants taking in CO2, fish waste, ammonia, etc., from the water and releasing O2 into the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 I think the most important thing I have learned about using CO2 in planted tanks is that if the KH in the tank water is high, CO2 doesn't work well. My tap water had KH of 10 dKH and my plants did poorly. They could not absorb the CO2 properly and I kept adding more CO2 to the point where the fish started gasping for oxygen at the surface and still it wasn't enough for the plants. The plants could not pearl (produce oxygen) at any CO2 level that would be safe for fish. When I switched to RO water which has a low KH of 1 and added SeaChem Equilibrium or Kent RO Right, the CO2 began to work properly. The plants pearl easily and the fish have plenty of oxygen. So once you cross that hurdle, the DIY is pretty easy. 1. Buy a 2 litre, 1 litre or 4 litre plastic soda bottle, depending on the size of the tank. One litre works well for five and ten g tanks, 2 for twenty, then jump to 4. 2. Buy something to diffuse the CO2 into the water. Airstones work but are not too efficient as they produce large bubbles that aren't well dispersed into the water - a lot of CO2 will escape through the water surface. But they work. Microbubblers like this Rena model work very well as they break up the CO2 into tiny particles to be easily dissolved: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web Another, and probably the best way to diffuse the CO2 is with a CO2 diffuser like this: http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ co2reactor.asp I have used all of the above, and they all work. I think the diffuser is best, but certainly not necessary. 3. Buy a bunch of plastic tubing that will fit the chosen diffuser/ airstone/bubbler. Use a drill bit that fits the diameter of the tubing to drill a hole in the top of the soda bottle, and pull the tubing through the hole a little ways with pliers. The hole has to make a tight fit around the tubing. 4. Mix 2 cups of white sugar, 1/2 teaspoon baking soda (to maintain high pH), and 1 teaspoon baker's yeast. Dissolve this mixture in tepid water, stirring until it's all dissolved. Pour this into the chosen bottle and add enough tepid water to fill the bottle to 3/4. 5. Screw on the top with the tubing, attach the non-top end of the tubing to the airstone/diffuser and stick the diffuser/stone into the tank. Bubbles should come within a few hours. Make sure to position the soda bottle lower than the tank to avoid any of the yeast syrup backdrafting into the tank. I like to remove the diffuser or airstone each night to prevent a CO2 OD to the fish during the night when plants are not using CO2 to photosynthesize. DIY CO2 has been known to kill fish overnight when not removed. This mixture should last a week or two before the bubbles slow down. I think I would use four cups of sugar, 1 t baking soda and 2 t yeast for the 4 litre bottle, but I use 2 cups sugar/1/2 t BS/1 t yeast for both the 2 litre and the 1 litre and it seems to work the same. It can be really useful to have a CO2 indicator to tell you how much CO2 you have in the water, but it's not absolutely necessary: http:// www.marinedepot.com/ Red_Sea_CO2_Indicator_CO2_Indicator_Solution_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea- RS2311-FICOIS-vi.html Another way to tell what's going on is: if the plants aren't pearling there's too little CO2, and if the fish are gasping at the water surface there's too much. But usually, DIY won't get you to the point of gasping fish within a twelve hour daylight period. Here are photos of my DIY tanks and set up: http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46043	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

If it's Hornwort you better put me back in the picture. <g> Bill --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 6:13 PM > Do you throw all your plant cuttings > away? > I feel slightly bad throwing them away, but I'm not sure if > I want to go > to all the effort to sell them on aquabid.com either, LOL. > Anyone need enough plants to probably fill a 55 gallon? ;) > LOL > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > About once a week. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:06 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > Thanks Lainey, I saved this to look back at later > when I have time and > > > money to set something up. > > > My only concern is how fast the plants will grow. > Right now I have to > > > trim up my tank, it's horridly overgrown, I think > there's more plants > > > than water (okay maybe an over exaggeration but > it sure looks like > > > it, LOL). > > > How often do you need to trim your plants using > your DIY CO2 system? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > >> > > >> I think the most important thing I have > learned about using CO2 in > > >> planted tanks is that if the KH in the tank > water is high, CO2 > > >> doesn't work well. My tap water had KH of 10 > dKH and my plants did > > >> poorly. They could not absorb the CO2 > properly and I kept adding more > > >> CO2 to the point where the fish started > gasping for oxygen at the > > >> surface and still it wasn't enough for the > plants. The plants could > > >> not pearl (produce oxygen) at any CO2 level > that would be safe for > > >> fish. When I switched to RO water which has a > low KH of 1 and added > > >> SeaChem Equilibrium or Kent RO Right, the CO2 > began to work properly. > > >> The plants pearl easily and the fish have > plenty of oxygen. > > >> > > >> So once you cross that hurdle, the DIY is > pretty easy. > > >> > > >> 1. Buy a 2 litre, 1 litre or 4 litre plastic > soda bottle, depending > > >> on the size of the tank. One litre works well > for five and ten g > > >> tanks, 2 for twenty, then jump to 4. > > >> > > >> 2. Buy something to diffuse the CO2 into the > water. Airstones work > > >> but are not too efficient as they produce > large bubbles that aren't > > >> well dispersed into the water - a lot of CO2 > will escape through the > > >> water surface. But they work. Microbubblers > like this Rena model work > > >> very well as they break up the CO2 into tiny > particles to be easily > > >> dissolved: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web> > > >> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web>> > > >> > > >> Another, and probably the best way to diffuse > the CO2 is with a CO2 > > >> diffuser like this: http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > > > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/> > > >> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > > > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/>> > > >> co2reactor.asp I have used all of the above, > and they all work. I > > >> think the diffuser is best, but certainly not > necessary. > > >> > > >> 3. Buy a bunch of plastic tubing that will > fit the chosen diffuser/ > > >> airstone/bubbler. Use a drill bit that fits > the diameter of the > > >> tubing to drill a hole in the top of the soda > bottle, and pull the > > >> tubing through the hole a little ways with > pliers. The hole has to > > >> make a tight fit around the tubing. > > >> > > >> 4. Mix 2 cups of white sugar, 1/2 teaspoon > baking soda (to maintain > > >> high pH), and 1 teaspoon baker's yeast. > Dissolve this mixture in > > >> tepid water, stirring until it's all > dissolved. Pour this into the > > >> chosen bottle and add enough tepid water to > fill the bottle to 3/4. > > >> > > >> 5. Screw on the top with the tubing, attach > the non-top end of the > > >> tubing to the airstone/diffuser and stick the > diffuser/stone into the > > >> tank. Bubbles should come within a few hours. > Make sure to position > > >> the soda bottle lower than the tank to avoid > any of the yeast syrup > > >> backdrafting into the tank. > > >> > > >> I like to remove the diffuser or airstone > each night to prevent a CO2 > > >> OD to the fish during the night when plants > are not using CO2 to > > >> photosynthesize. DIY CO2 has been known to > kill fish overnight when > > >> not removed. This mixture should last a week > or two before the > > >> bubbles slow down. I think I would use four > cups of sugar, 1 t baking > > >> soda and 2 t yeast for the 4 litre bottle, > but I use 2 cups sugar/1/2 > > >> t BS/1 t yeast for both the 2 litre and the 1 > litre and it seems to > > >> work the same. > > >> > > >> It can be really useful to have a CO2 > indicator to tell you how much > > >> CO2 you have in the water, but it's not > absolutely necessary: http:// > > >> www.marinedepot.com/ > > >> > Red_Sea_CO2_Indicator_CO2_Indicator_Solution_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea- > > >> RS2311-FICOIS-vi.html > > >> > > >> Another way to tell what's going on is: if > the plants aren't pearling > > >> there's too little CO2, and if the fish are > gasping at the water > > >> surface there's too much. But usually, DIY > won't get you to the > > >> point of gasping fish within a twelve hour > daylight period. > > >> > > >> Here are photos of my DIY tanks and set up: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/> > > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/>> > > >> > group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list > > >> > > >> Lainey > > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http:// > > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > >> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old > > > subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail > > > option where you will still be able to read > messages on the group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual e- > > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46044	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question

So, Ray, is it OK if they are belly sliders right now? Because that's what they are doing, sliding around on their bellies. I see one that is starting to swim up the side of the tank, but the rest are spinning on their sides. I have been making a new batch of BBS every 24 hours so I'll always have fresh. Thank you. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:32 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > It generally takes about 3 1/2 to 4 days from the time they hatch > until the > time they become free-swimming, depending on the temperature. Since > your > temperature dipped down to 72 o at one point and needed time to > come back up, > it looks like it's going to be closer to 4 days (or even a bit more). > > As you first saw there were eggs on Saturday morning, that means > that you > will probably not see them free-swimming until Wednesday morning at > the > earliest -- and possibly later because of the set back. I doubt > very much that > they'll start swimming tonight. IF they do, they'll be fine until > morning > when you can feed them. If you're up to it, you could get up during > the night > to check on them. > > DO NOT FEED them now, and don't feed them if you only see part of them > swimming. I think I mentioned it can take up to a couple of hours > before > they're all free-swimming when they first start to. So even if 75% > of them are > swimming, don't feed them yet at that time. They won't starve out > to wait an > extra 1/2 hour until the remaining fry are free-swimming, before > being fed. > > Some activity, such as what you're seeing, is normal before they > actually > swim. Of course, the cooling off period may have affected them in > properly > developing their air bladder, in which case you'll need to write > them off as > being lost since they'll remain as belly-sliders -- although I > really tend > to doubt this. I only mention it as you're presently seeing them > spinning > around. If this continues into the latter part of tomorrow, then > you'll know > this is what happened. > > Holding off on feeding them until they're all free-swimming will > prevent > the late swimmers from becoming belly-sliders which, if they are > otherwise > developing properly, this is the purpose for waiting -- to prevent the > stragglers from becoming belly-sliders which they well may if fed > before they can > reach the surface to fill their air bladder (note: they may not all > find it > necessary to do this). They shouldn't yet have depleted their egg > sack even > though they should being appearing thinner at this point. They will > swim > when they're ready, so just be patient. You may want to think about > hatching > more BBS if you think you'll need it for the following few days, as > even > though you're refrigerating it, it only survives just so long. You > don't want > to be caught with nothing but dead BBS when it's time to feed them. > Ray > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank

I figured Dolly and her lollipop would have gotten you UP without the need for coffee... or a little blue pill. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank Now I don't know for sure about Lainey, but I ran quick and put on another pot of coffee on! Bill --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 5:24 PM Lainey, > > At least you're not singing this song... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lYdD9DdLNY > > I like that version of it! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > They would not show up, you need to view through a magnifying glass. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > > > Mice? Any chance of getting out your digital camera > and taking a film? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:11 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > > > Slightly freaked out now...since last night there are > about fifty > > white worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You need > a mag glass to > > see them, but once you are on that level, I would say > the worms are > > about twice as long as the fry. No idea what that > would be in cm or > > whatever, not visible to the naked eye - but honestly > it's an > > outbreak. Is this OK? > > > > I just wish these babies would get off the floor. > > > > There is also something that looks like a mouse, it is > white and > > scurries on the tank bottom. I have only seen two of > the mice, and > > they are about the size of the fries' heads, so not > too big. > > > > Reassurance appreciated! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE > all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46046	From: Lisa	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise

The spot that was on my female guppie's side has cleared up. Whatever it was, and has now left what looks like a couple of missing scales. Also I noted this morning that her poo is white. I don't know if that colour is a fluke. But I'm keeping my eye on her closely for the next week. My Harlequin Rasboras, my eyesight isn't great, I have a medical visual condition but it seems like they might have a fuzz on their bodies. (velvet?) It seems to be limited to them only. But I was debating whether it's good advice to medicate a whole tank for a suspected outbreak of something that you've guessed at. Do I medicate an entire tank for something that may or may not be velvet? It's whitish in colour, and very fine. And isn't Ick goldish in colour? Also, I seem to have this black fuzz on my dwarf and large anubias plants. Both are on pieces of driftwood. Cause that seems to be the only way I can get plants to survive in my tank. The ones I've planted in the substrate have always died eventually or gone brown and slimy. But I use a dose of `Leaf zone' every week to feed them. I think my tank is going through another mini cycle, cause I'm getting a mild outbreak of green algae again. And when the tank was moved to my unit, only 50% of the original water was saved. Leaving me with having to top up the rest with new water.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46047	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Worms and mice in fry tank

THAT'S TWO!! might be a good idea to start lookin' around corner's? Bill --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 6:55 PM > I figured Dolly and her lollipop > would have gotten you UP without the need > for coffee... or a little blue pill. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:43 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > Now I don't know for sure about Lainey, but I ran quick and > put on another > pot of coffee on! > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 5:24 PM Lainey, > > > > At least you're not singing this song... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lYdD9DdLNY > > > > I like that version of it! ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to > any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 4:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry tank > > > > They would not show up, you need to view through a > magnifying glass. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > > > > > Mice? Any chance of getting out your digital > camera > > and taking a film? > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:11 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Worms and mice in fry > tank > > > > > > Slightly freaked out now...since last night there > are > > about fifty > > > white worms in the tank bottom among the fry. You > need > > a mag glass to > > > see them, but once you are on that level, I would > say > > the worms are > > > about twice as long as the fry. No idea what > that > > would be in cm or > > > whatever, not visible to the naked eye - but > honestly > > it's an > > > outbreak. Is this OK? > > > > > > I just wish these babies would get off the > floor. > > > > > > There is also something that looks like a mouse, > it is > > white and > > > scurries on the tank bottom. I have only seen two > of > > the mice, and > > > they are about the size of the fries' heads, so > not > > too big. > > > > > > Reassurance appreciated! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > replying, Thank > > > You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > ((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE > > all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking > on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" > > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on > the > > group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a time in a > > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to read messages > > on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > >       > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46048	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise

It seems the move must have stressed many of your fish out enough that their immune systems faltered so you're getting hit with various pathogens. A drop in temperature can also cause this immune system issue. Of course, parasites have nothing to do with immunity although there is some speculation that a healthy fish's slime coat will ward off or provide resistance to some external parasites. White poo is commonly caused by internal parasites. If you have a hospital tank, I would move the fish but since you now report other fish with issues, you may end up having to treat the entire tank. I know you're in Australia so I'm not sure what kind of medications are available but for me, I would use Hikari's Prazi-Pro but there are many other treatments.. some rougher than others. Prazi-Pro is very mild so it does not affect the fish compared to some other meds. Of course, if all of your fish can tolerate salt in their water (I know the guppies can), a simple salt treatment will help for the external parasites but you would still have the potential internal parasite issue. The missing scales and the thing that was on the side could both be from an injury but could also be from an external parasite. Velvet and Ich are both external parasites. Ich is actually white spots and Velvet can be golden in color. I STRONGLY suggest that you refer back to that website I gave you and read over and look at the pictures (you may have to get help with this since you have an eyesight issue) of the above issues to verify what you have and then check with your LFS, Veterinarian, etc. for what might be available. Prazi-Pro's active ingredient is Praziquantel, the medicine used for de-worming dogs... and probably cats too but I've never owned a cat so I can't be sure. Very little Prazi-Pro is needed to treat an entire tank so your Vet could probably determine the proper dosage for you and would probably just give it to you. It would probably be a fraction of a single small pill and the individual pills are just pennies each over here in the States, the last time I had to buy them... many years ago. Test your water and do PWC's as needed to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels down low enough to be safe and your mini-cycle should pass in a few days unless you lost all of your nitrifying bacteria, which isn't likely... but anything is possible. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 2 things i need to raise The spot that was on my female guppie's side has cleared up. Whatever it was, and has now left what looks like a couple of missing scales. Also I noted this morning that her poo is white. I don't know if that colour is a fluke. But I'm keeping my eye on her closely for the next week. My Harlequin Rasboras, my eyesight isn't great, I have a medical visual condition but it seems like they might have a fuzz on their bodies. (velvet?) It seems to be limited to them only. But I was debating whether it's good advice to medicate a whole tank for a suspected outbreak of something that you've guessed at. Do I medicate an entire tank for something that may or may not be velvet? It's whitish in colour, and very fine. And isn't Ick goldish in colour? Also, I seem to have this black fuzz on my dwarf and large anubias plants. Both are on pieces of driftwood. Cause that seems to be the only way I can get plants to survive in my tank. The ones I've planted in the substrate have always died eventually or gone brown and slimy. But I use a dose of `Leaf zone' every week to feed them. I think my tank is going through another mini cycle, cause I'm getting a mild outbreak of green algae again. And when the tank was moved to my unit, only 50% of the original water was saved. Leaving me with having to top up the rest with new water. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46049	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question

With the cooling off period they had, I would not expect them to swim tonight -- so, at this time, there is no need for alarm if they are moving around the bottom of the tank without free-swimming yet. Like I said though, if this persists until well into tomorrow, they just may not have developed properly to be able to swim but let's not worry about that now -- when we can't do anything about that possibility anyway. Give them time -- they're not due to free-swim yet anyhow, until tomorrow morning at the earliest since the cooling slowed down their metabolism temporarily. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46050	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question

what is the current tank temp Lainey? Bill --- On Tue, 1/19/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] For Ray - wiggler question > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 7:47 PM > > > With the cooling off period they had, I would not expect > them to swim > tonight -- so, at this time, there is no need for alarm if > they are moving around > the bottom of the tank without free-swimming yet.  > Like I said though, if > this persists until well into tomorrow, they just may not > have developed > properly to be able to swim but let's not worry about that > now -- when we can't > do anything about that possibility anyway.  Give them > time -- they're not > due to free-swim yet anyhow, until tomorrow morning at the > earliest since the > cooling slowed down their metabolism temporarily.  > Ray</HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46051	From: jvpfish@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Koi

Do koi lay eggs or live babies? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46052	From: Lisa	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise

The earliest I can probably get into my LFS is tuesday (5 days from now) Or maybe this Sunday. So i'll ask in there. I'll do day to day gravel vacs. In terms of adding salt, is it safe to use normal table or sea salt? Cause otherwise i'd have to pick some non ionised salt up. I have Rasboras Guppies, Cardenal tetras Swordtails glass catfish and a couple of B/N catfish So are they all tollerant of salt? Plus i constantly have free swimming guppy and swordtail fry of various stages of development in the tank, so would they be too young to cope?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46053	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question

84 and holding steady Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:00 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > what is the current tank temp Lainey? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 1/19/10, sevenspringss@... > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] For Ray - wiggler question > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 7:47 PM > > > > > > With the cooling off period they had, I would not expect > > them to swim > > tonight -- so, at this time, there is no need for alarm if > > they are moving around > > the bottom of the tank without free-swimming yet. > > Like I said though, if > > this persists until well into tomorrow, they just may not > > have developed > > properly to be able to swim but let's not worry about that > > now -- when we can't > > do anything about that possibility anyway. Give them > > time -- they're not > > due to free-swim yet anyhow, until tomorrow morning at the > > earliest since the > > cooling slowed down their metabolism temporarily. > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46054	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Koi

They lay eggs... but are egg scatterers, meaning they do not lay eggs in clumps or in any particular place but rather the female scatters them along plants, etc., with one or more males following behind spreading their milt on the eggs. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jvpfish@... Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:02 PM To: Aquaticlife Subject: [AquaticLife] Koi Do koi lay eggs or live babies?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46055	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: For Ray - wiggler question

OUTSTANDING, Bill --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] For Ray - wiggler question > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 8:03 PM > 84 and holding steady > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:00 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > what is the current tank temp Lainey? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 1/19/10, sevenspringss@...  > > > <sevenspringss@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <sevenspringss@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] For Ray - wiggler > question > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 7:47 PM > > > > > > > > > With the cooling off period they had, I would not > expect > > > them to swim > > > tonight -- so, at this time, there is no need for > alarm if > > > they are moving around > > > the bottom of the tank without free-swimming > yet. > > > Like I said though, if > > > this persists until well into tomorrow, they just > may not > > > have developed > > > properly to be able to swim but let's not worry > about that > > > now -- when we can't > > > do anything about that possibility anyway.  > Give them > > > time -- they're not > > > due to free-swim yet anyhow, until tomorrow > morning at the > > > earliest since the > > > cooling slowed down their metabolism > temporarily. > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > If it's Hornwort you better put me back in the picture. <g> > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 6:13 PM > > Do you throw all your plant cuttings > > away? > > I feel slightly bad throwing them away, but I'm not sure if > > I want to go > > to all the effort to sell them on aquabid.com either, LOL. > > Anyone need enough plants to probably fill a 55 gallon? ;) > > LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > About once a week. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 6:06 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks Lainey, I saved this to look back at later > > when I have time and > > > > money to set something up. > > > > My only concern is how fast the plants will grow. > > Right now I have to > > > > trim up my tank, it's horridly overgrown, I think > > there's more plants > > > > than water (okay maybe an over exaggeration but > > it sure looks like > > > > it, LOL). > > > > How often do you need to trim your plants using > > your DIY CO2 system? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I think the most important thing I have > > learned about using CO2 in > > > >> planted tanks is that if the KH in the tank > > water is high, CO2 > > > >> doesn't work well. My tap water had KH of 10 > > dKH and my plants did > > > >> poorly. They could not absorb the CO2 > > properly and I kept adding more > > > >> CO2 to the point where the fish started > > gasping for oxygen at the > > > >> surface and still it wasn't enough for the > > plants. The plants could > > > >> not pearl (produce oxygen) at any CO2 level > > that would be safe for > > > >> fish. When I switched to RO water which has a > > low KH of 1 and added > > > >> SeaChem Equilibrium or Kent RO Right, the CO2 > > began to work properly. > > > >> The plants pearl easily and the fish have > > plenty of oxygen. > > > >> > > > >> So once you cross that hurdle, the DIY is > > pretty easy. > > > >> > > > >> 1. Buy a 2 litre, 1 litre or 4 litre plastic > > soda bottle, depending > > > >> on the size of the tank. One litre works well > > for five and ten g > > > >> tanks, 2 for twenty, then jump to 4. > > > >> > > > >> 2. Buy something to diffuse the CO2 into the > > water. Airstones work > > > >> but are not too efficient as they produce > > large bubbles that aren't > > > >> well dispersed into the water - a lot of CO2 > > will escape through the > > > >> water surface. But they work. Microbubblers > > like this Rena model work > > > >> very well as they break up the CO2 into tiny > > particles to be easily > > > >> dissolved: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web> > > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web>> > > > >> <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web> > > > > > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web > <http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10435/product.web>>> > > > >> > > > >> Another, and probably the best way to diffuse > > the CO2 is with a CO2 > > > >> diffuser like this: http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/> > > > > > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/>> > > > >> <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/> > > > > > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/ > <http://www.aquatichouse.com/plants_files/>>> > > > >> co2reactor.asp I have used all of the above, > > and they all work. I > > > >> think the diffuser is best, but certainly not > > necessary. > > > >> > > > >> 3. Buy a bunch of plastic tubing that will > > fit the chosen diffuser/ > > > >> airstone/bubbler. Use a drill bit that fits > > the diameter of the > > > >> tubing to drill a hole in the top of the soda > > bottle, and pull the > > > >> tubing through the hole a little ways with > > pliers. The hole has to > > > >> make a tight fit around the tubing. > > > >> > > > >> 4. Mix 2 cups of white sugar, 1/2 teaspoon > > baking soda (to maintain > > > >> high pH), and 1 teaspoon baker's yeast. > > Dissolve this mixture in > > > >> tepid water, stirring until it's all > > dissolved. Pour this into the > > > >> chosen bottle and add enough tepid water to > > fill the bottle to 3/4. > > > >> > > > >> 5. Screw on the top with the tubing, attach > > the non-top end of the > > > >> tubing to the airstone/diffuser and stick the > > diffuser/stone into the > > > >> tank. Bubbles should come within a few hours. > > Make sure to position > > > >> the soda bottle lower than the tank to avoid > > any of the yeast syrup > > > >> backdrafting into the tank. > > > >> > > > >> I like to remove the diffuser or airstone > > each night to prevent a CO2 > > > >> OD to the fish during the night when plants > > are not using CO2 to > > > >> photosynthesize. DIY CO2 has been known to > > kill fish overnight when > > > >> not removed. This mixture should last a week > > or two before the > > > >> bubbles slow down. I think I would use four > > cups of sugar, 1 t baking > > > >> soda and 2 t yeast for the 4 litre bottle, > > but I use 2 cups sugar/1/2 > > > >> t BS/1 t yeast for both the 2 litre and the 1 > > litre and it seems to > > > >> work the same. > > > >> > > > >> It can be really useful to have a CO2 > > indicator to tell you how much > > > >> CO2 you have in the water, but it's not > > absolutely necessary: http:// > > > >> www.marinedepot.com/ > > > >> > > Red_Sea_CO2_Indicator_CO2_Indicator_Solution_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea- > > > >> RS2311-FICOIS-vi.html > > > >> > > > >> Another way to tell what's going on is: if > > the plants aren't pearling > > > >> there's too little CO2, and if the fish are > > gasping at the water > > > >> surface there's too much. But usually, DIY > > won't get you to the > > > >> point of gasping fish within a twelve hour > > daylight period. > > > >> > > > >> Here are photos of my DIY tanks and set up: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/>> > > > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/ <http://groups.yahoo.com/>>> > > > >> > > group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list > > > >> > > > >> Lainey > > > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > <http:// > > > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > >> > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > > ((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of the original > > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old > > > > subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail > > > > option where you will still be able to read > > messages on the group > > > > and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual e- > > > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46057	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/19/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise

Your catfish will be most likely to not tolerate higher levels of salt so you want to slowly start raising, starting immediately. The tetras may also not like higher salt levels... but remember this is only a short term medicinal treatment designed to save their lives so it has to be done. Other than for medicinal treatments, salt is not needed in ANY freshwater tanks except for fish that prefer a little salt. You can use the plain table salt or even iodized table salt. Save the sea salt for other reasons, if needed, not for short term medicinal reasons. Do you use any salt in the tank already? If yes, then you have to factor that into the below info. If you are starting with zero salt, then start off with 1 level teaspoon per gallon (of course, I'm talking U.S. teaspoons and U.S. gallons so you'll have to make sure your teaspoons are the same size as a U.S. teaspoon. We know your Imperial Gallons are larger so you'll have to do the math... or the simplest way to KNOW your U.S. Gallons is to measure the inside measurements for Length, Width and Height and then use this formula, L x W x H = ____ /(divided by) 231 = U.S.Gallons. Then start the first treatment of salt, removing some tank water, maybe a gallon, and adding the correct amount of salt to that gallon and mixing/stirring until it's mostly diluted, then slowly start pouring this salty water along the outside of the tank, staying away from direct contact with the fish and filter intakes. Take about 15 minutes or more to pour this about 1/2 back into the tank, then refill the gallon and stir/mix up any undissolved salt at the bottom of the mixing container and repeat pouring and adding water until you've added the salt. If you have live plants, you should remove them to a separate home for the next couple of weeks while you treat the main tank. During this time, any parasites that might be in the plant or the water you removed for the plants should die off without a fish host. After a day, and if all the fish are doing OK with the 1 teaspoon per gallon salt level, raise the level by another teaspoon per gallon (so it will now be 2 teaspoons per gallon total), using the same mixing/pouring instructions above. If the fish are all tolerating 2 teaspoons per gallon, you can increase it on the next day to a third teaspoon per gallon. IF AT ANY POINT DURING THE RAISING OF THE SALT LEVELS, THE FISH START TO SHOW DISTRESS CAUSED BY THE SALT, THEN DO NOT RAISE IT ANY HIGHER AND DO A 10% PWC OR TWO TO LOWER THE SALT LEVEL A LITTLE UNTIL THE FISH ARE NOT SHOWING MAJOR DISTRESS AND THEN LEAVE THE SALT LEVEL AT THAT LEVEL FOR THE NEXT WEEK. Here's more detailed reading about the use of salt. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml The use and non-use of salt is something that every fish keeper should know the basics of so read and re-read these article until you feel you have a basic understanding. This article, written by a Veterinarian about ponds, gives other info about the use of salt for treatment purposes but the dosages are MUCH larger since they are talking about ponds but the health information is good. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 2 things i need to raise The earliest I can probably get into my LFS is tuesday (5 days from now) Or maybe this Sunday. So i'll ask in there. I'll do day to day gravel vacs. In terms of adding salt, is it safe to use normal table or sea salt? Cause otherwise i'd have to pick some non ionised salt up. I have Rasboras Guppies, Cardenal tetras Swordtails glass catfish and a couple of B/N catfish So are they all tollerant of salt? Plus i constantly have free swimming guppy and swordtail fry of various stages of development in the tank, so would they be too young to cope?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46058	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: 2 things i need to raise

The U.S. Gallon is equivilent to 0.83268 Imperial Gallons (or 3.785 Liters). Putting it another way, the Imperial Gallon is equal to 1.201 U.S. Gallons. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46059	From: Noura	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Corys aiming High!

Hi, Is it normal for Corydoras (aeneus sp?) to aim for the surface sometimes, and sit on the heater's rubber suction cups near the top of the tank? They also behave normally most of the time, dwelling down and searching the gravel for food. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46060	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!

Hi Nora, Yes, it's perfectly normal for any Corydoras catfish to make a mad dash to the surface at any time to get a gulp of air (which they swallow and move to their stomachs to gain more oxygen). It's not very normal at all though (not that there's any cause for concern) for them to rest at a high location like that, but maybe they've learned to improvise, using that "perch" as being a much shorter distance to the surface when that need strikes them. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46061	From: johnd	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Siphon type

Does anyone make the siphon type HOB filter anymore? I always seemed to "rescue" baby live bearers from the compartment that would otherwise be a snack for the adult fish. The newer type only produces ground sushi for the filter pad.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46062	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Siphon type

John, You can put a sponge filter on the intake of a HOB filter to keep this from happening. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: johnd <dumasjohnj@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 4:46 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Siphon type   Does anyone make the siphon type HOB filter anymore? I always seemed to "rescue" baby live bearers from the compartment that would otherwise be a snack for the adult fish. The newer type only produces ground sushi for the filter pad.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46063	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Siphon type

I think we were just talking about this type of HOB in a recent thread... the Supreme Aquamaster. They are no longer made and most HOB's, at least every one I've seen in the past 10 years, has the intake tube ending right at the impeller to get maximum suction... but there are still many instances of fry getting sucked in by these impeller models and still surviving in the filter reservoir. I guess it depends on if it's a BIG HOB with lots of water flow or a smaller HOB with low water flow. In the recent thread here, I saw an eBay sale where someone had 10 new Supreme Aquamaster 250's that they were selling. I'm sure if you do an eBay.com search for Supreme Aquamaster, you will find that listing and possibly others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johnd Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Siphon type Does anyone make the siphon type HOB filter anymore? I always seemed to "rescue" baby live bearers from the compartment that would otherwise be a snack for the adult fish. The newer type only produces ground sushi for the filter pad.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46064	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of hornworth... Anyway, how would you ship that? Enid In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46065	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!

Yes it seems normal for my aeneus cory's to swim to the surface (to get a little air), then they go back down to the gravel and resume their activities. When they get air from the surface it is absorbed into their blood stream, they will do this if there isn't enough oxygen in the water, or if they just prefer the surface air. I have several powerheads and 2 small HOB's, and a rena filstar xp 4 on the tank (so it's way over filtered), so there should be plenty of oxygen in the water, not to mention it's a densely planted tank as well. But my cory's still go to the surface now and then to get air. Amber Noura wrote: > > Hi, > Is it normal for Corydoras (aeneus sp?) to aim for the surface > sometimes, and sit on the heater's rubber suction cups near the top of > the tank? They also behave normally most of the time, dwelling down > and searching the gravel for food. > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46066	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

In a box? LOL sorry couldn't resist. I have a styrofoam box from a fish shipment recently, so I would pack it into that, then add a couple heat packs (just in case), and send the box off. I only have one box handy though, and it's a decent size, otherwise I could put them in a smaller non-insulated container. I need to find someone in town that sells styrofoam that I can cut to my own size. Amber Gwydryn@... wrote: > > and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of > hornworth... > Anyway, how would you ship that? > Enid > > > In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46067	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Yelp: Ray

Hi Ray - The ram fry are fish now! They have eyes and tails. I still need a magnifier to see them, but they're moving in the right direction. First problem: they seem stuck to things, like willow moss, mulm, just whatever they are near they seem stuck to it by little threads on their bodies. I have been turkey basting them to free them. Once I turkey baste them they seem to be "free swimming" versus belly sliding, however, I'm not sure if I should feed yet. I have not seen them go to the water surface as you mentioned, and they certainly aren't too good at swimming. Mainly they are on the bottom kind of gliding around looking for food. I see them using their mouths to peck at mulm etc. I assume I should feed but just not sure since they are not up in the water column. SHOULD I FEED THEM? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46068	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray

Congrats, now it's time to see if they all grow up :) I'm excited for you Lainey :) I remember the first day I found baby sewellia lineolata's in my 125 gallon tank (hillstream loaches), I still have the babies, and they're not much bigger than they were then, but it's very neat to watch them grow up :) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Hi Ray - > > The ram fry are fish now! They have eyes and tails. I still need a > magnifier to see them, but they're moving in the right direction. > First problem: they seem stuck to things, like willow moss, mulm, > just whatever they are near they seem stuck to it by little threads > on their bodies. I have been turkey basting them to free them. Once I > turkey baste them they seem to be "free swimming" versus belly > sliding, however, I'm not sure if I should feed yet. I have not seen > them go to the water surface as you mentioned, and they certainly > aren't too good at swimming. Mainly they are on the bottom kind of > gliding around looking for food. I see them using their mouths to > peck at mulm etc. I assume I should feed but just not sure since they > are not up in the water column. SHOULD I FEED THEM? > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46069	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray

Thanks, Amber - Can you tell me how many HLs you keep in one tank? I have one in a 20g and I read that they need to be in groups, but then I read that they hate to be in groups and will fight. I just love this little guy and I want to do right by him/her. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Congrats, now it's time to see if they all grow up :) I'm excited for > you Lainey :) > I remember the first day I found baby sewellia lineolata's in my 125 > gallon tank (hillstream loaches), I still have the babies, and they're > not much bigger than they were then, but it's very neat to watch them > grow up :) > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> Hi Ray - >> >> The ram fry are fish now! They have eyes and tails. I still need a >> magnifier to see them, but they're moving in the right direction. >> First problem: they seem stuck to things, like willow moss, mulm, >> just whatever they are near they seem stuck to it by little threads >> on their bodies. I have been turkey basting them to free them. Once I >> turkey baste them they seem to be "free swimming" versus belly >> sliding, however, I'm not sure if I should feed yet. I have not seen >> them go to the water surface as you mentioned, and they certainly >> aren't too good at swimming. Mainly they are on the bottom kind of >> gliding around looking for food. I see them using their mouths to >> peck at mulm etc. I assume I should feed but just not sure since they >> are not up in the water column. SHOULD I FEED THEM? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46070	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray

Do you have an actual hillstream loach or just a loach? Hillstream loaches are fairly flat like a pleco, and they have 4 side fins that are also flat that flare out around each side of their bodies. For example, I have this type: http://www.loaches.com/species-index/sewellia-lineolata If so, then I hope you have lots of water movement for the little guy/gal, as they need LOTS to actually thrive in an aquarium. Each species seems a little different for it's social behaviors though, my sewellia's are fairly social, and the males will often "fight" for territory, but they are NOT aggressive by any means, and they can not harm each other, nor other fish. My Gastromyzon (2 types) seem less social, but they're still new to their tank, and they appear to be very young, perhaps when they get older I will see them socialize a bit more, so far the only time I see them in the same spot is if there is something "yummy" that they both want to eat ;) LOL I would say to keep them in groups but it just depends on if you can get more. I have 1 adult sewellia left, and 2 or 3 babies, so that's kind of a group ;) I only have one gastromyzon scitilus and 2 gastromyzon zebrinus, but as I said those ones don't seem to hang out at all yet. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Thanks, Amber - > > Can you tell me how many HLs you keep in one tank? I have one in a > 20g and I read that they need to be in groups, but then I read that > they hate to be in groups and will fight. > > I just love this little guy and I want to do right by him/her. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Congrats, now it's time to see if they all grow up :) I'm excited for > > you Lainey :) > > I remember the first day I found baby sewellia lineolata's in my 125 > > gallon tank (hillstream loaches), I still have the babies, and they're > > not much bigger than they were then, but it's very neat to watch them > > grow up :) > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Hi Ray - > >> > >> The ram fry are fish now! They have eyes and tails. I still need a > >> magnifier to see them, but they're moving in the right direction. > >> First problem: they seem stuck to things, like willow moss, mulm, > >> just whatever they are near they seem stuck to it by little threads > >> on their bodies. I have been turkey basting them to free them. Once I > >> turkey baste them they seem to be "free swimming" versus belly > >> sliding, however, I'm not sure if I should feed yet. I have not seen > >> them go to the water surface as you mentioned, and they certainly > >> aren't too good at swimming. Mainly they are on the bottom kind of > >> gliding around looking for food. I see them using their mouths to > >> peck at mulm etc. I assume I should feed but just not sure since they > >> are not up in the water column. SHOULD I FEED THEM? > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46071	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: hillstream loach

Amber - This is the one I have: http://www.aquarticles.com/images/ Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach-Gastromyzon.jpg I don't know the whole latin name, is this one of the ones you have? It has a little red on the fin as you can see. I can get more, just not sure if I should or if this one will be less happy with an intruder. It's pretty happy seeming so far, and yes, I have good flow for the little guy. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Do you have an actual hillstream loach or just a loach? > Hillstream loaches are fairly flat like a pleco, and they have 4 side > fins that are also flat that flare out around each side of their > bodies. > For example, I have this type: > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/sewellia-lineolata > > If so, then I hope you have lots of water movement for the little > guy/gal, as they need LOTS to actually thrive in an aquarium. > Each species seems a little different for it's social behaviors > though, > my sewellia's are fairly social, and the males will often "fight" for > territory, but they are NOT aggressive by any means, and they can not > harm each other, nor other fish. > My Gastromyzon (2 types) seem less social, but they're still new to > their tank, and they appear to be very young, perhaps when they get > older I will see them socialize a bit more, so far the only time I see > them in the same spot is if there is something "yummy" that they both > want to eat ;) LOL > I would say to keep them in groups but it just depends on if you > can get > more. I have 1 adult sewellia left, and 2 or 3 babies, so that's > kind of > a group ;) I only have one gastromyzon scitilus and 2 gastromyzon > zebrinus, but as I said those ones don't seem to hang out at all yet. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> Thanks, Amber - >> >> Can you tell me how many HLs you keep in one tank? I have one in a >> 20g and I read that they need to be in groups, but then I read that >> they hate to be in groups and will fight. >> >> I just love this little guy and I want to do right by him/her. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> Congrats, now it's time to see if they all grow up :) I'm excited >>> for >>> you Lainey :) >>> I remember the first day I found baby sewellia lineolata's in my 125 >>> gallon tank (hillstream loaches), I still have the babies, and >>> they're >>> not much bigger than they were then, but it's very neat to watch >>> them >>> grow up :) >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Ray - >>>> >>>> The ram fry are fish now! They have eyes and tails. I still need a >>>> magnifier to see them, but they're moving in the right direction. >>>> First problem: they seem stuck to things, like willow moss, mulm, >>>> just whatever they are near they seem stuck to it by little threads >>>> on their bodies. I have been turkey basting them to free them. >>>> Once I >>>> turkey baste them they seem to be "free swimming" versus belly >>>> sliding, however, I'm not sure if I should feed yet. I have not >>>> seen >>>> them go to the water surface as you mentioned, and they certainly >>>> aren't too good at swimming. Mainly they are on the bottom kind of >>>> gliding around looking for food. I see them using their mouths to >>>> peck at mulm etc. I assume I should feed but just not sure since >>>> they >>>> are not up in the water column. SHOULD I FEED THEM? >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> Thank You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> ((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >>> subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >>> and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive >> individual e- >>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46072	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Siphon type

John, While Marineland's filters have been redesigned to more modern standards, you might want to get in touch with them concerning the older style of filter intakes they've used in the past. If they no longer have stock, you could try eBay. Presently, there are a number of different model Marineland intake tubes on there, one in particular (Model #PR1254) is for Models 110B/125B filters and comes with a strainer. There are 8 available, with the eBay number being 300365478732. The same Seller also has extension tubes (with strainer) for this intake tube that fits Models 110/125/170 filters; that eBay number is 350256943046. There are 6 available. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46073	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: More for Ray

I see now that some of the ram fry are actually swimming. Some are still sort of semi-stuck on their sides. My new question is: how long should I wait to feed them? Three hours total? If some are not going to make it off the floor, I don't want to wait too long, but not sure how to tell. TY Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46074	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More for Ray

Hi Lainey,   I thought Ray said to wait until they are ALL free-swimming before feeding?    Also what did you mean "you need a magnifying glass to see them"?   Why I can see them all from here down in PA! <g>   You Go Girl, your doin' great, keep us posted.   Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] More for Ray To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 11:26 AM I see now that some of the ram fry are actually swimming. Some are  still sort of semi-stuck on their sides. My new question is: how long  should I wait to feed them? Three hours total? If some are not going  to make it off the floor, I don't want to wait too long, but not sure  how to tell. TY Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46075	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More for Ray

He did, Bill, but then he also said some might not make it, so just not sure how to decide if I need to keep waiting or if some are just not going to get off the floor. I guess I will wait three hours... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:56 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > I thought Ray said to wait until they are ALL free-swimming > before feeding? > > Also what did you mean "you need a magnifying glass to see them"? > > Why I can see them all from here down in PA! <g> > > You Go Girl, your doin' great, keep us posted. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] More for Ray > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 11:26 AM > > I see now that some of the ram fry are actually swimming. Some are > still sort of semi-stuck on their sides. My new question is: how long > should I wait to feed them? Three hours total? If some are not going > to make it off the floor, I don't want to wait too long, but not sure > how to tell. > > TY > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46076	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More for Ray

Hi Lainey, "Some", as you know, is a relative term!  This might be the hardest part of what your trying to do.  If there are "remains" and as Ray told you, there could be some, try and remove them as soon as you can.  Along with the heat issue that we told you about, keeping that tank pristine is your biggest worry.  Clean is everything.   Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More for Ray > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 11:55 AM > He did, Bill, but then he also said > some might not make it, so just  > not sure how to decide if I need to keep waiting or if some > are just  > not going to get off the floor. I guess I will wait three > hours... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:56 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > I thought Ray said to wait until they are ALL > free-swimming > > before feeding? > > > > Also what did you mean "you need a magnifying glass to > see them"? > > > > Why I can see them all from here down in PA! > <g> > > > > You Go Girl, your doin' great, keep us posted. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] More for Ray > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 11:26 AM > > > > I see now that some of the ram fry are actually > swimming. Some are > > still sort of semi-stuck on their sides. My new > question is: how long > > should I wait to feed them? Three hours total? If some > are not going > > to make it off the floor, I don't want to wait too > long, but not sure > > how to tell. > > > > TY > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46077	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray

Lainey, I remember telling you that Cichlid fry stick to surfaces, like you spawning stone (and the tank bottom, or anything else they come in contact with) until THEY are ready to free-swim. You were not supposed to "free" them from anything with your baster -- THEY will free THEMSELVES when they are developed enough to free-swim. That you've now prematurely freed them, they will still need several hours before they should be fed. DO NOT feed them yet for several hours and until you're sure that they are all up and swimming in the water column. Ray P.S.: Yes, most substrate-spawning Cichlids are attached to the spawning surface by their heads with an adhesive thread until such time as they free themselves. I also mentioned that this adhesion will lessen as each successive day went by -- so on day three, they would not be as strongly adhered to the rock as they would be on day one of their hatching.</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46078	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray

OK, this helps, I misunderstood you to think that they were only adhered during that initial stage five days ago when they were attached to the rock. Once I turkey basted them off of the rock to get them free of the mold, I thought the adhesion was broken from then on. But what you say obviously explains what I am seeing. I would say about twenty percent of them are free swimming, so I will continue to wait... Thanks again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 12:17 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, I remember telling you that Cichlid fry stick to surfaces, > like > you spawning stone (and the tank bottom, or anything else they come > in contact > with) until THEY are ready to free-swim. You were not supposed to > "free" > them from anything with your baster -- THEY will free THEMSELVES > when they > are developed enough to free-swim. That you've now prematurely > freed them, > they will still need several hours before they should be fed. DO > NOT feed > them yet for several hours and until you're sure that they are all > up and > swimming in the water column. Ray > > P.S.: Yes, most substrate-spawning Cichlids are attached to the > spawning > surface by their heads with an adhesive thread until such time as > they free > themselves. I also mentioned that this adhesion will lessen as each > successive day went by -- so on day three, they would not be as > strongly adhered to > the rock as they would be on day one of their hatching.</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46079	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

You gently wrap it in some tank-water dampened newspaper, put inside of a plastic liner and ship it on it's way. Those flat rate $4.95 USPS Priority Mail boxes (2-3 day mail.. usually 2-day) would hold a decent amount. Of course, if you're shipping in freezing weather, you might want to wrap the plastic lined newspaper in even more newspaper to insulate the plants. The larger USPS Priority Mail boxes would hold a LOT more but come with increasing shipping fees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of hornworth... Anyway, how would you ship that? Enid In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46080	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yelp: Ray

Even though you prematurely (and temporarily) have broken/interupted their adhesive bond, they were not quite ready to free-swim yet, and will still very lightly re-adhere to the bottom until they are ready to free-swim. As I also said, it could take a couple of hours from the time you see the first ones free-swimming until they are ALL free-swimming. The 20% you see free-swimming now bears this out, with still the remaining 80% needing up to another 2 hours before they too swim. DON'T feed them until they ALL swim. The first ones WON't starve. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46081	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

You can buy a BIG 4' x 8' sheet of the pink stuff styrofoam used for home insulation at your local BIG BOX home repair center. It's fairly cheap. I think they sell smaller pieces also. It's better than normal styrofoam as it's lined with plastic on one side and doesn't flake off as many of the little pellets that make up normal styrofoam. In fact, if your blade is sharp, and long enough to cut through the 3/4" thick stuff in one cut, you won't have any mess. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 In a box? LOL sorry couldn't resist. I have a styrofoam box from a fish shipment recently, so I would pack it into that, then add a couple heat packs (just in case), and send the box off. I only have one box handy though, and it's a decent size, otherwise I could put them in a smaller non-insulated container. I need to find someone in town that sells styrofoam that I can cut to my own size. Amber Gwydryn@... wrote: > > and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of > hornworth... > Anyway, how would you ship that? > Enid > > > In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46082	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Now ya see what I mean Len? I'm dying to get some of this stuff and people are throwing it away! I coulnd't come in first in a one-man foot race. Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 12:27 PM You gently wrap it in some tank-water dampened newspaper, put inside of a plastic liner and ship it on it's way.  Those flat rate $4.95 USPS Priority Mail boxes (2-3 day mail.. usually 2-day) would hold a decent amount.  Of course, if you're shipping in freezing weather, you might want to wrap the plastic lined newspaper in even more newspaper to insulate the plants.  The larger USPS Priority Mail boxes would hold a LOT more but come with increasing shipping fees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of hornworth... Anyway, how would you ship that? Enid In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,  arberglund@... writes: Got a  decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a  fist? Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46083	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Hopefully they both will have more really soon... they should... and if they and you both have PayPal accounts, the transaction would be painless... and the mailman (ooops.. politically correct term is now "Letter Carrier") would pick up the package at no charge and send it on it's merry way. The main USPS.com website section for Priority Mail will ship you a FREE starter kit of a few of the boxes. There's probably a way to buy the $4.95 "stamps" online or other fixed price postage for larger boxes so they don't even have to go to the Post Office if you choose to avoid it.... like the plague... as I do... or at least be able to buy it from a vending machine at the Post Office so you don't have to get in their typical guv'ment lines. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 Now ya see what I mean Len? I'm dying to get some of this stuff and people are throwing it away! I coulnd't come in first in a one-man foot race. Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 12:27 PM You gently wrap it in some tank-water dampened newspaper, put inside of a plastic liner and ship it on it's way.  Those flat rate $4.95 USPS Priority Mail boxes (2-3 day mail.. usually 2-day) would hold a decent amount.  Of course, if you're shipping in freezing weather, you might want to wrap the plastic lined newspaper in even more newspaper to insulate the plants.  The larger USPS Priority Mail boxes would hold a LOT more but come with increasing shipping fees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of hornworth... Anyway, how would you ship that? Enid In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,  arberglund@... writes: Got a  decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a  fist? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46084	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!

Corydoras will regularly breach the surface in order to take a gulp of air. They swallow the air and it passes to the hind gut where the blood vessels extract the oxygen; when depleted, the cory breaches the surface again for more air and the previous air is expelled. All Corydoras, along with the species in related genera Aspidoras and Brochis, and a number of other catfish such as Otocinclus need to do this. If prevented, they would literally drown, notwithstanding that the gills extract oxygen from the water as in all fish. This adaptation allows the fish to live in oxygen-poor water, such as shallow pools during the dry season. With respect to your cory sitting near the surface, Corydoras will frequently "rest" on plant leaves and objects, but only for relatively brief periods during their regular foraging for food on all surfaces in the aquarium. Some species remain on or near the substrate, others (especially the dwarf species) spend more time mid-water foraging plant leaves rather than the substrate. If this fish is respirating more than normal, it would suggest that the fish is in stress from a water quality/parameter issue, or if only in a single fish more likely an internal health issue. In my experience Corydoras do not normally remain close to the surface. Byron. -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi, > Is it normal for Corydoras (aeneus sp?) to aim for the surface sometimes, and sit on the heater's rubber suction cups near the top of the tank? They also behave normally most of the time, dwelling down and searching the gravel for food. > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46085	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Hydroponics

This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some of the nitrates. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46086	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google - aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've looked at sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a Favorites folder for the topic. Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would read them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some of the nitrates. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46087	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: They're launched

Ram fry are airborne and eating:) John says there are fifty or so... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46088	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched

Nothing wrong with that mans eye's!  Stand-By though, they may surprise you! Is John into fish too or just jumping in with extra help?   Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] They're launched To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 3:01 PM Ram fry are airborne and eating:) John says there are fifty or so... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46089	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched

Question for Ray on protocol here? Now that they are free-swimming-------and I hope, soon eating, were these fish considered born today or back from the 13th when Lainey saw the eggs? Which would be considered correct? Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] They're launched > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 3:01 PM > Ram fry are airborne and eating:) > > John says there are fifty or so... > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46090	From: Noura	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!

Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate carefully, it's normal in all three corys. But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the three developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, there's nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a white spot instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the corys have this spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, while the third has his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are symmetric and spread equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this a coloration or should I be worried? The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I don't know their age. Noura ���� [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46091	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched

John is into fish, and setting up this highly complex seagrass biotope based on six months of research. I can't even follow all the drama there - he adds one layer of sand and then waits three weeks for God knows what to happen before the next step of like adding a rock:) But I do think he's into the fresh stuff too - he told me I couldn't go out this afternoon because the ram babies' status is too delicate. I like it! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 3:31 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Nothing wrong with that mans eye's! Stand-By though, they may > surprise you! Is John into fish too or just jumping in with extra > help? > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] They're launched > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 3:01 PM > > Ram fry are airborne and eating:) > > John says there are fifty or so... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched

UH OH... I guess the answer would depend on if you're Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] They're launched Question for Ray on protocol here? Now that they are free-swimming-------and I hope, soon eating, were these fish considered born today or back from the 13th when Lainey saw the eggs? Which would be considered correct? Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] They're launched > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 3:01 PM Ram fry are airborne and > eating:) > > John says there are fifty or so... > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched

To amend my earlier answer, I've been thinking about this and would have to say their "traditional" birthday celebration, if Lainey was to honor the day, would have to be the day they hatched from the eggs a few days ago. They might not have been free swimming but they had hatched. Kind of like a baby is born and can't do much more than be a wriggler for a while but it is already born. Their free-swimming would be comparable to baby's first crawling or steps. ;-) Take pics of their fins shoved in the cake and their faces covered in icing for us next year. ;-) Oh yeah.. and their first attempt at breeding would mean they have reached teenager status. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] They're launched Question for Ray on protocol here? Now that they are free-swimming-------and I hope, soon eating, were these fish considered born today or back from the 13th when Lainey saw the eggs? Which would be considered correct? Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] They're launched > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 3:01 PM Ram fry are airborne and > eating:) > > John says there are fifty or so... > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46094	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched

One day old and you're baby sitting already! They do need watching and lots of attention for a bit. Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] They're launched > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 4:08 PM > John is into fish, and setting up > this highly complex seagrass  > biotope based on six months of research. I can't even > follow all the  > drama there - he adds one layer of sand and then waits > three weeks  > for God knows what to  happen before the next step of > like adding a  > rock:) > > But I do think he's into the fresh stuff too - he told me I > couldn't  > go out this afternoon because the ram babies' status is too > delicate.  > I like it! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 20, 2010, at 3:31 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Nothing wrong with that mans eye's!  Stand-By > though, they may  > > surprise you! Is John into fish too or just jumping in > with extra  > > help? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] They're launched > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 3:01 PM > > > > Ram fry are airborne and eating:) > > > > John says there are fifty or so... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46095	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!

The gulping for air is very helpful when the little creek or oxbow lake they get stuck in gets low on water and oxygen. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:44 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Corys aiming High! Yes it seems normal for my aeneus cory's to swim to the surface (to get a little air), then they go back down to the gravel and resume their activities. When they get air from the surface it is absorbed into their blood stream, they will do this if there isn't enough oxygen in the water, or if they just prefer the surface air. I have several powerheads and 2 small HOB's, and a rena filstar xp 4 on the tank (so it's way over filtered), so there should be plenty of oxygen in the water, not to mention it's a densely planted tank as well. But my cory's still go to the surface now and then to get air. Amber Noura wrote: > > Hi, > Is it normal for Corydoras (aeneus sp?) to aim for the surface > sometimes, and sit on the heater's rubber suction cups near the top of > the tank? They also behave normally most of the time, dwelling down > and searching the gravel for food. > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46096	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched

Great, I'm so glad to hear it. Congrats! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46097	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!

Definitely sounds like coloration. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46098	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: They're launched

Bill, Technically, they might be considered as being "born" when they hatched into wrigglers. I always date them when the eggs were first laid though, when I tag the tanks that I put them in. Mainly because I may not think of tagging the tanks at a later date, and once they're swimming for a number of days I won't remember exactly when their parents spawned. BESIDES, if I don't tag the eggs as soon as I pull them, I may not remember which pair they came from so as to write their description down. It helps to know a month down the road how many spawns of Gold Marble Angels I have being reared vs how may spawns of Koi Angels, for instance, when they both look similar at that age. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46099	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

I did that and got a lot of instructions on how to turn an aquarium tank into a hydroponic water source, but nothing about being able to keep fish in the aquarium at the same time. I guess I'll just keep flipping pages on the Google search until I see something that might work. I'd try Bing, but I never seem to get anything different there than I do on Google. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google - aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've looked at sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a Favorites folder for the topic. Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would read them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some of the nitrates. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46100	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Haven't had a chance to look it over completely, but this one looks interesting: http://www.compostguy.com/aquaponics/aquarium-aquaponics/ OR http://tinyurl.com/aquahydro01 DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google - aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've looked at sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a Favorites folder for the topic. Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would read them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some of the nitrates. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46101	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

I have no advice other than to say you may want to make sure whatever you use to treat water, feed fish etc be safe for human consumption. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:29 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics   I did that and got a lot of instructions on how to turn an aquarium tank into a hydroponic water source, but nothing about being able to keep fish in the aquarium at the same time. I guess I'll just keep flipping pages on the Google search until I see something that might work. I'd try Bing, but I never seem to get anything different there than I do on Google. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google - aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've looked at sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a Favorites folder for the topic. Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would read them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some of the nitrates. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46102	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Hah, politically correct term is wrong, they carry more than letters, I get boxes delivered through the post office all the time ;) LOL. I also avoid the post office, why doesn't everyone ship Fed Ex darnit? LOL With my discount it costs about the same as it would to ship through the post office anyways, so there's really no reason unless I have a letter or netflix to send out ;) I really don't mind sending you some plants Bill, it'd cost less than 10 dollars to ship it 2 day service to probably anywhere in the US. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Hopefully they both will have more really soon... they should... and > if they > and you both have PayPal accounts, the transaction would be > painless... and > the mailman (ooops.. politically correct term is now "Letter Carrier") > would > pick up the package at no charge and send it on it's merry way. The main > USPS.com website section for Priority Mail will ship you a FREE > starter kit > of a few of the boxes. There's probably a way to buy the $4.95 "stamps" > online or other fixed price postage for larger boxes so they don't > even have > to go to the Post Office if you choose to avoid it.... like the > plague... as > I do... or at least be able to buy it from a vending machine at the Post > Office so you don't have to get in their typical guv'ment lines. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > > Now ya see what I mean Len? I'm dying to get some of this stuff and people > are throwing it away! > > I coulnd't come in first in a one-man foot race. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 12:27 PM > > You gently wrap it in some tank-water dampened newspaper, put inside of a > plastic liner and ship it on it's way. Those flat rate $4.95 USPS Priority > Mail boxes (2-3 day mail.. usually 2-day) would hold a decent amount. Of > course, if you're shipping in freezing weather, you might want to wrap the > plastic lined newspaper in even more newspaper to insulate the plants. The > larger USPS Priority Mail boxes would hold a LOT more but come with > increasing shipping fees. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Gwydryn@... <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > > and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of > hornworth... > Anyway, how would you ship that? > Enid > > In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46103	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Ahh, I have an option for you, let me check my links. It's not a garden, but the poster used a hollow grating to put on top of one side of his fish tank so that plants could grow up from the tank and use this as support, he also put house plants on the top portion of this grate and let the roots dangle in the water (with a spider plant), I don't see any reason why you couldn't do the same with a different type of plant. Tomatoes would really like the nitrates, but you might have to "feed them" fertilizers so that might not be a good idea, as they typically require more nutrients during their "bloom" (growing the tomatoes). Would be worth it to test it out though. Darn the pictures on the link were no longer good, so I can't show you a picture of what the guy did, but I would think any type of plastic grating with holes big enough for plants, but small enough so they don't fall through should work out okay. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last > year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up > a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some > herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited > in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe > use some of the nitrates. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46104	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Yikes!

I think I mightof bit off more than I realized here...everywhere I look I see babies. Now are they going to need a twenty g grow out tank? If so, when? Gulp. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46105	From: harry perry	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yikes!/Lainey

Congratulations. You went into the fish business overnight!!!!!. Harry --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Yikes! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 6:22 PM   I think I mightof bit off more than I realized here...everywhere I look I see babies. Now are they going to need a twenty g grow out tank? If so, when? Gulp. Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46106	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yikes!/Lainey

I'll say, I'm having minor palpitations when I absorb the full impact of the sheer numbers! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 6:29 PM, harry perry wrote: > Congratulations. You went into the fish business overnight!!!!!. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Yikes! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 6:22 PM > > > > I think I mightof bit off more than I realized here...everywhere I > > look I see babies. > > Now are they going to need a twenty g grow out tank? > > If so, when? > > Gulp. > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46107	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Ah yes, very valid point Mike, dechlorinator is typically not safe for human consumption, but there is at least one brand out there that says it is safe for human consumption, so it's possible to do this. This one says it is non-toxic, even is overdosed, perhaps check it out? maybe read some reviews. Might be spendy if you buy water conditioner a lot. http://www.marinedepot.com/Kordon_Aquarium_NovAqua_Plus_Water_Conditioner_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers-Kordon_Novalek-NV33111-FIADWTTCDC-vi.html Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > I have no advice other than to say you may want to make sure whatever > you use to treat water, feed fish etc be safe for human consumption. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@... > <mailto:menagerie_manager%40prodigy.net>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 2:29 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics > > > I did that and got a lot of instructions on how to turn an > aquarium > tank into a hydroponic water source, but nothing about being able to > keep > fish in the aquarium at the same time. I guess I'll just keep flipping > pages on the Google search until I see something that might work. I'd > try > Bing, but I never seem to get anything different there than I do on > Google. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google > - > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a > Favorites folder for the topic. > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > read > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics > > This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last > year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a > hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some > herbs > or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my > home > and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some of > the > nitrates. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ------------------------------------ > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46108	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Not sure if anyone has replied to this or not. When I receive plants through the mail, or other shipping methods, a majority of them come in a padded envelope. The bags inside have little to no water and often have a wet paper towel to provide moisture for the plant. Living in the ice box as you do I understand the heat pack might be a good idea. If you are not happy with the bag try a small box, book size perhaps and put the contents in that. If you still do not want to go that way you can make a mini fish box by cutting pieces of sheet syrofoam to fit inside a small box. I have received fish in these home made fish boxes with success. Plants usually do not need the exact same level of care as fish. Hence no real need to do much more than keep them wet. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:47 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 In a box? LOL sorry couldn't resist. I have a styrofoam box from a fish shipment recently, so I would pack it into that, then add a couple heat packs (just in case), and send the box off. I only have one box handy though, and it's a decent size, otherwise I could put them in a smaller non-insulated container. I need to find someone in town that sells styrofoam that I can cut to my own size. Amber Gwydryn@... wrote: > > and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of > hornworth... > Anyway, how would you ship that? > Enid > > > In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46109	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Thank you! I was so focused on not poisoning the fish, I forgot about who'd be eating the vegetation, hehe. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- I have no advice other than to say you may want to make sure whatever you use to treat water, feed fish etc be safe for human consumption. -Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46110	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2

So if the temps here are averaging in the 40's, should I worry about a heat pack when sending plants? Also is 2 day service sufficient or do they need to go over night? Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Not sure if anyone has replied to this or not. > > When I receive plants through the mail, or other shipping methods, a > majority of them come in a padded envelope. The bags inside have little > to no water and often have a wet paper towel to provide moisture for > the plant. Living in the ice box as you do I understand the heat pack > might be a good idea. If you are not happy with the bag try a small > box, book size perhaps and put the contents in that. If you still do > not want to go that way you can make a mini fish box by cutting pieces > of sheet syrofoam to fit inside a small box. I have received fish in > these home made fish boxes with success. Plants usually do not need the > exact same level of care as fish. Hence no real need to do much more > than keep them wet. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:47 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > > In a box? LOL sorry couldn't resist. > I have a styrofoam box from a fish shipment recently, so I would pack > it > into that, then add a couple heat packs (just in case), and send the > box > off. I only have one box handy though, and it's a decent size, > otherwise > I could put them in a smaller non-insulated container. I need to find > someone in town that sells styrofoam that I can cut to my own size. > > Amber > > Gwydryn@... <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of > > hornworth... > > Anyway, how would you ship that? > > Enid > > > > > > In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, > > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > > > Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46111	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Aquaponics (was: Hydroponics)

Thanks, Amber. I was actually thinking of using my spider plant's next batch of babies as guinea pigs for this project. I'm having trouble picturing the hollow grating. Maybe if I sleep on it it'll give me some insight. I did find some YouTube videos that gave me some things to think about. And I discovered the correct term for Googling, when live fish are involved, is Aquaponics. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > Ahh, I have an option for you, let me check my links. It's not a garden, > but the poster used a hollow grating to put on top of one side of his > fish tank so that plants could grow up from the tank and use this as > support, he also put house plants on the top portion of this grate and > let the roots dangle in the water (with a spider plant), I don't see any > reason why you couldn't do the same with a different type of plant. > Tomatoes would really like the nitrates, but you might have to "feed > them" fertilizers so that might not be a good idea, as they typically > require more nutrients during their "bloom" (growing the tomatoes). > Would be worth it to test it out though. > Darn the pictures on the link were no longer good, so I can't show you a > picture of what the guy did, but I would think any type of plastic > grating with holes big enough for plants, but small enough so they don't > fall through should work out okay. > > Amber > > Menagerie_Manager wrote: >> >> This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last >> year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up >> a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some >> herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited >> in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe >> use some of the nitrates. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46112	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics

This is just an example of the grating I was talking about, apparently they call it "egg crate" http://www.capitolplastics.com/plas_para_louvers2.htm Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > Thanks, Amber. I was actually thinking of using my spider plant's next > batch of babies as guinea pigs for this project. I'm having trouble > picturing the hollow grating. Maybe if I sleep on it it'll give me some > insight. I did find some YouTube videos that gave me some things to think > about. And I discovered the correct term for Googling, when live fish are > involved, is Aquaponics. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > > > >> Ahh, I have an option for you, let me check my links. It's not a garden, >> but the poster used a hollow grating to put on top of one side of his >> fish tank so that plants could grow up from the tank and use this as >> support, he also put house plants on the top portion of this grate and >> let the roots dangle in the water (with a spider plant), I don't see any >> reason why you couldn't do the same with a different type of plant. >> Tomatoes would really like the nitrates, but you might have to "feed >> them" fertilizers so that might not be a good idea, as they typically >> require more nutrients during their "bloom" (growing the tomatoes). >> Would be worth it to test it out though. >> Darn the pictures on the link were no longer good, so I can't show you a >> picture of what the guy did, but I would think any type of plastic >> grating with holes big enough for plants, but small enough so they don't >> fall through should work out okay. >> >> Amber >> >> Menagerie_Manager wrote: >> >>> This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last >>> year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up >>> a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some >>> herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited >>> in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe >>> use some of the nitrates. >>> >>> DebR and the Three Goldfish >>> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46113	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2

I would think a single heat pack for two day shipping would be fine. Some of the plants, ok most of them, I get are from Asia and they take at least a week to arrive. Oh just in case. I have heard that breather bags and heat packs do not go well together in a sealed container. I have not had experience with a problem, it is something to look into if you are using breather bags. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:43 pm Subject: Re: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2   So if the temps here are averaging in the 40's, should I worry about a heat pack when sending plants? Also is 2 day service sufficient or do they need to go over night? Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Not sure if anyone has replied to this or not. > > When I receive plants through the mail, or other shipping methods, a > majority of them come in a padded envelope. The bags inside have little > to no water and often have a wet paper towel to provide moisture for > the plant. Living in the ice box as you do I understand the heat pack > might be a good idea. If you are not happy with the bag try a small > box, book size perhaps and put the contents in that. If you still do > not want to go that way you can make a mini fish box by cutting pieces > of sheet syrofoam to fit inside a small box. I have received fish in > these home made fish boxes with success. Plants usually do not need the > exact same level of care as fish. Hence no real need to do much more > than keep them wet. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:47 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > > In a box? LOL sorry couldn't resist. > I have a styrofoam box from a fish shipment recently, so I would pack > it > into that, then add a couple heat packs (just in case), and send the > box > off. I only have one box handy though, and it's a decent size, > otherwise > I could put them in a smaller non-insulated container. I need to find > someone in town that sells styrofoam that I can cut to my own size. > > Amber > > Gwydryn@... <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of > > hornworth... > > Anyway, how would you ship that? > > Enid > > > > > > In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, > > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > > > Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46114	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics

You can get it from Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, OSH etc. Many people use them as dividers in tanks. Some use them for Synodontis petricola breeding. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquaponics This is just an example of the grating I was talking about, apparently they call it "egg crate" http://www.capitolplastics.com/plas_para_louvers2.htm Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > Thanks, Amber. I was actually thinking of using my spider plant's next > batch of babies as guinea pigs for this project. I'm having trouble > picturing the hollow grating. Maybe if I sleep on it it'll give me some > insight. I did find some YouTube videos that gave me some things to think > about. And I discovered the correct term for Googling, when live fish are > involved, is Aquaponics. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > > > >> Ahh, I have an option for you, let me check my links. It's not a garden, >> but the poster used a hollow grating to put on top of one side of his >> fish tank so that plants could grow up from the tank and use this as >> support, he also put house plants on the top portion of this grate and >> let the roots dangle in the water (with a spider plant), I don't see any >> reason why you couldn't do the same with a different type of plant. >> Tomatoes would really like the nitrates, but you might have to "feed >> them" fertilizers so that might not be a good idea, as they typically >> require more nutrients during their "bloom" (growing the tomatoes). >> Would be worth it to test it out though. >> Darn the pictures on the link were no longer good, so I can't show you a >> picture of what the guy did, but I would think any type of plastic >> grating with holes big enough for plants, but small enough so they don't >> fall through should work out okay. >> >> Amber >> >> Menagerie_Manager wrote: >> >>> This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last >>> year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up >>> a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some >>> herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited >>> in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe >>> use some of the nitrates. >>> >>> DebR and the Three Goldfish >>> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46115	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Five day old ram picture

Here is a picture of the babies - there are eight in this photo, but probably the only visible one is the brown speck in front of the red part of the heater... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ 416356263/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46116	From: harry perry	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Five day old ram picture/Your picture

The link broke and has extra spaces typical for Yahoo. Folks can go to the home page of the group site and click on new photos. It's the first one. Harry --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Five day old ram picture To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:03 PM   Here is a picture of the babies - there are eight in this photo, but probably the only visible one is the brown speck in front of the red part of the heater... http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/AquaticLif e/photos/ album/2049115566 /pic/ 416356263/view? picmode=& mode=tn&order= ordinal&start= 1&count=20& dir=asc Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46117	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Ooops, Did not read your reply until now Lenny. I usually read email newest to oldest but today I read oldest to newest. Pardon my saying almost the same thing. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 9:27 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2   You gently wrap it in some tank-water dampened newspaper, put inside of a plastic liner and ship it on it's way. Those flat rate $4.95 USPS Priority Mail boxes (2-3 day mail.. usually 2-day) would hold a decent amount. Of course, if you're shipping in freezing weather, you might want to wrap the plastic lined newspaper in even more newspaper to insulate the plants. The larger USPS Priority Mail boxes would hold a LOT more but come with increasing shipping fees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of hornworth... Anyway, how would you ship that? Enid In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46118	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yikes!

Lainey, I figured when John said there were 50, that there would be a lot more. Since they're so small, their numbers look deceiving. A 20 Long would be best, if you continue being successful with them. You have time, so why don't you wait about two weeks to see how well they do (or how many you lose) and take it from there. At that time, if most are doing nicely, you might want to graduate to the 20 to give them proper room for growing. They'll still be kinda small yet, but you can easily hold them back if their growth-inhibiting hormones build up (from tight quarters). Watch the bottom of the tank to see if there is any excess dead BBS building up. If so, besides needing to draw it off, you need to cut back on the amount you're feeding. Can you tell us at this time just about how much you are feeding them? For starting them off, if you're feeding them BBS and they're taking it, you should feed no more than what will fit on the end of a 1" wide strip no wider than about 1/8" or less (I can't know the amount of fry that you've hatched, so I can't tell you exactly). You may even need to feed a 1" strip closer to 1/16" wide as they're first starting out. I use an old stainless steel thermometer which has the glass broken out. I dip the end into the strained BBS like it's a spoon, and come up with the end of this 1" wide piece of stainless steel covered with a slightly mounded strip (or "edge") across the tip of this stainless steel piece that extends no higher up the strip than 1/8" or less depending on the amount for fry I'm feeding, and swirl it around in the water. By "strained," I syphon the BBS through a men's muslin handkerchief (grab one from John). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46119	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics

Thanks, Mike! If I go that route, I'll know where to find it now. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> You can get it from Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, OSH etc. Many people use them as dividers in tanks. Some use them for Synodontis petricola breeding. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquaponics This is just an example of the grating I was talking about, apparently they call it "egg crate" http://www.capitolplastics.com/plas_para_louvers2.htm Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > Thanks, Amber. I was actually thinking of using my spider plant's next > batch of babies as guinea pigs for this project. I'm having trouble > picturing the hollow grating. Maybe if I sleep on it it'll give me some > insight. I did find some YouTube videos that gave me some things to think > about. And I discovered the correct term for Googling, when live fish are > involved, is Aquaponics. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > > > >> Ahh, I have an option for you, let me check my links. It's not a garden, >> but the poster used a hollow grating to put on top of one side of his >> fish tank so that plants could grow up from the tank and use this as >> support, he also put house plants on the top portion of this grate and >> let the roots dangle in the water (with a spider plant), I don't see any >> reason why you couldn't do the same with a different type of plant. >> Tomatoes would really like the nitrates, but you might have to "feed >> them" fertilizers so that might not be a good idea, as they typically >> require more nutrients during their "bloom" (growing the tomatoes). >> Would be worth it to test it out though. >> Darn the pictures on the link were no longer good, so I can't show you a >> picture of what the guy did, but I would think any type of plastic >> grating with holes big enough for plants, but small enough so they don't >> fall through should work out okay. >> >> Amber >> >> Menagerie_Manager wrote: >> >>> This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last >>> year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up >>> a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some >>> herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited >>> in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe >>> use some of the nitrates. >>> >>> DebR and the Three Goldfish >>> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46120	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Yikes!

Hi Lainey!   See, you should listen to ol'bill!  I told you that they might surprise you!  No, all is not lost yet but it is something for you to think about.  Remember when I sent you the sponge filter link?  I think you said you did get "them", I'm assuming the them is two?  If so, you're off to a good start as these can transfer to a new tank especially if you have two.   Now you asked about space?  Again, that's up to you and John.  Remember I told you about a 55 but to combine some or all or your smaller tanks into one big one?  You might want to return and re-think that now.  I do now know and understand about your RO water and the why for it.  But with this larger tank overall you will do less water hauling and work, once setup.  If you put the new tank in another place, you can use just about all the water from the other tanks so nothing will be wasted.    The only real problem you would have is to transfer those beautiful plants over to a bigger tank but also ensure that they will still have the lighting arrangements that you have now. Now for the fry, so far in a 10, if I recall?  You would next want either a 20-long or 30-gallon. The idea here is a bigger but not DEEPER tank.  Why?  Clean up for you and better control of feeding and caring for the fry.  Tanks not as deep are easier for the fry to feed from.  In deeper tanks the food tends to get away from them.  When they are big enough to be off the BBS all together and on regular food, then a larger deeper tank is fine to grow out.   Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Yikes! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 6:22 PM I think I mightof bit off more than I realized here...everywhere I  look I see babies. Now are they going to need a twenty g grow out tank? If so, when? Gulp. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46121	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics

Was it just regular plant pots sitting on top with the roots hanging through the bottoms of the pots? I've also got kind of an idea fomenting in the back of my head about maybe using the run off from the AquaClear filters so that I don't have to add another pump and siphon system. Can't quite see how that one would work, though. At least the goldfish won't outgrow this project before it gets built (if it ever does). There's no way they'll fit through the tubes I bought to make the water bridge last year, hehe. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > This is just an example of the grating I was talking about, apparently > they call it "egg crate" > http://www.capitolplastics.com/plas_para_louvers2.htm > > Amber > > Menagerie_Manager wrote: >> Thanks, Amber. I was actually thinking of using my spider plant's >> next >> batch of babies as guinea pigs for this project. I'm having trouble >> picturing the hollow grating. Maybe if I sleep on it it'll give me some >> insight. I did find some YouTube videos that gave me some things to >> think >> about. And I discovered the correct term for Googling, when live fish >> are >> involved, is Aquaponics. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >> >> >> >>> Ahh, I have an option for you, let me check my links. It's not a garden, >>> but the poster used a hollow grating to put on top of one side of his >>> fish tank so that plants could grow up from the tank and use this as >>> support, he also put house plants on the top portion of this grate and >>> let the roots dangle in the water (with a spider plant), I don't see any >>> reason why you couldn't do the same with a different type of plant. >>> Tomatoes would really like the nitrates, but you might have to "feed >>> them" fertilizers so that might not be a good idea, as they typically >>> require more nutrients during their "bloom" (growing the tomatoes). >>> Would be worth it to test it out though. >>> Darn the pictures on the link were no longer good, so I can't show you a >>> picture of what the guy did, but I would think any type of plastic >>> grating with holes big enough for plants, but small enough so they don't >>> fall through should work out okay. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Menagerie_Manager wrote: >>> >>>> This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last >>>> year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up >>>> a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some >>>> herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited >>>> in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe >>>> use some of the nitrates. >>>> >>>> DebR and the Three Goldfish >>>> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >> to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >> on the home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >> replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46122	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

ok then! Bill, next time I "deforest" the pleco's tank I'll give you a heads up and send you some of this stuff. Enid In a message dated 1/20/2010 11:28:04 A.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: You gently wrap it in some tank-water dampened newspaper, put inside of a plastic liner and ship it on it's way. Those flat rate $4.95 USPS Priority Mail boxes (2-3 day mail.. usually 2-day) would hold a decent amount. Of course, if you're shipping in freezing weather, you might want to wrap the plastic lined newspaper in even more newspaper to insulate the plants. The larger USPS Priority Mail boxes would hold a LOT more but come with increasing shipping fees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46123	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: More questions for Ray (SORRY)

Ray - I think I am feeding about the amount you say. However, I am watching them thru the mag glass and I am not convinced that they can eat the BBS. Sometimes I think I see one eating a BBS, but then I see a lot of failed attempts. Therefore, I have been following up with about two drops of liquid food by Wardley. I know two drops doesn't sound like much, but it seems like a lot because I mix it with tank water, then apply with a turkey baster and the water goes cloudy. They seem to eat this well, but of course it is polluting the water. I am doing a two g water change daily, but now am wondering should I do a four g daily? Should I do a two g twice daily? The other issue is there is a dead mosquito and a bunch of mulm on the floor plus those worms and mice and stuff - but there's no way I want to vacuum at this point, so all I can do is the WCs. I added a second nano filter to the sponge filter just to be safer. Another issue: I only run my lights eight hours a day, but this just isn't enough for the babies to get their three to five feedings. How long should I run their lights? You know by now, Ray - I couldn't be doing this without you! I don't know how to thank you, other than offering to walk you through any and all upcoming bird clutch hatchings you may have in store:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 7:38 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, I figured when John said there were 50, that there would be > a lot > more. Since they're so small, their numbers look deceiving. A 20 Long > would be best, if you continue being successful with them. You have > time, so > why don't you wait about two weeks to see how well they do (or how > many you > lose) and take it from there. At that time, if most are doing > nicely, you > might want to graduate to the 20 to give them proper room for > growing. They'll > still be kinda small yet, but you can easily hold them back if their > growth-inhibiting hormones build up (from tight quarters). > > Watch the bottom of the tank to see if there is any excess dead BBS > building up. If so, besides needing to draw it off, you need to cut > back on the > amount you're feeding. Can you tell us at this time just about how > much you > are feeding them? For starting them off, if you're feeding them BBS > and > they're taking it, you should feed no more than what will fit on > the end of a 1" > wide strip no wider than about 1/8" or less (I can't know the > amount of fry > that you've hatched, so I can't tell you exactly). You may even > need to > feed a 1" strip closer to 1/16" wide as they're first starting out. > I use an > old stainless steel thermometer which has the glass broken out. I > dip the > end into the strained BBS like it's a spoon, and come up with the > end of this > 1" wide piece of stainless steel covered with a slightly mounded > strip (or > "edge") across the tip of this stainless steel piece that extends > no higher > up the strip than 1/8" or less depending on the amount for fry I'm > feeding, > and swirl it around in the water. By "strained," I syphon the BBS > through a > men's muslin handkerchief (grab one from John). Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46124	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

One question here? Which "Bill" or Bill "who" are you talking about here. I must have missed some mails somewhere please forgive if I am not the right Bill?? And Len? It's all right, I already sent for more coffee! Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Gwydryn@... <Gwydryn@...> wrote: > From: Gwydryn@... <Gwydryn@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:41 PM > ok then! Bill, next time I "deforest" > the pleco's tank I'll give you a  > heads up and send you some of this stuff. > Enid > > > In a message dated 1/20/2010 11:28:04 A.M. Central Standard > Time,  > GoldLenny@... > writes: > > You  gently wrap it in some tank-water dampened > newspaper, put inside of  a > plastic liner and ship it on it's way. Those flat rate > $4.95 USPS  Priority > Mail boxes (2-3 day mail.. usually 2-day) would hold a > decent  amount. Of > course, if you're shipping in freezing weather, you might > want  to wrap the > plastic lined newspaper in even more newspaper to insulate > the  plants. The > larger USPS Priority Mail boxes would hold a LOT more but > come  with > increasing shipping fees. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46125	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Still Aquaponics

This is another link I found: http://norisstuff.com/aquaponics/plant-walls-gardening-and-the-science-of-aquaponics/ OR http://tinyurl.com/hydroponics01 Let me know what y'all think of it. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46126	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Still Aquaponics

On second thought, don't bother. This one didn't turn out to be what it seemed like it was going to be. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager This is another link I found: http://norisstuff.com/aquaponics/plant-walls-gardening-and-the-science-of-aquaponics/ OR http://tinyurl.com/hydroponics01 Let me know what y'all think of it. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46127	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2

I think 2-day is fine for plants. I've personally seen a 2-day package get lost in the system and it took 5-6 days and most of the plants were still fine... although there were parts of some that looked wilted beyond repair and were discarded. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: shipping plants Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 So if the temps here are averaging in the 40's, should I worry about a heat pack when sending plants? Also is 2 day service sufficient or do they need to go over night? Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > Not sure if anyone has replied to this or not. > > When I receive plants through the mail, or other shipping methods, a > majority of them come in a padded envelope. The bags inside have > little to no water and often have a wet paper towel to provide > moisture for the plant. Living in the ice box as you do I understand > the heat pack might be a good idea. If you are not happy with the bag > try a small box, book size perhaps and put the contents in that. If > you still do not want to go that way you can make a mini fish box by > cutting pieces of sheet syrofoam to fit inside a small box. I have > received fish in these home made fish boxes with success. Plants > usually do not need the exact same level of care as fish. Hence no > real need to do much more than keep them wet. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 7:47 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > > In a box? LOL sorry couldn't resist. > I have a styrofoam box from a fish shipment recently, so I would pack > it into that, then add a couple heat packs (just in case), and send > the box off. I only have one box handy though, and it's a decent size, > otherwise I could put them in a smaller non-insulated container. I > need to find someone in town that sells styrofoam that I can cut to my > own size. > > Amber > > Gwydryn@... <mailto:Gwydryn%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of > > hornworth... > > Anyway, how would you ship that? > > Enid > > > > > > In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, > > arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> writes: > > > > Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46128	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

No need to apologize... as long as you agreed with me. <G> I think it's good for two or more folks to reply with the same info as it give the reader more confidence in the first answer. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 Ooops, Did not read your reply until now Lenny. I usually read email newest to oldest but today I read oldest to newest. Pardon my saying almost the same thing. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 9:27 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2   You gently wrap it in some tank-water dampened newspaper, put inside of a plastic liner and ship it on it's way. Those flat rate $4.95 USPS Priority Mail boxes (2-3 day mail.. usually 2-day) would hold a decent amount. Of course, if you're shipping in freezing weather, you might want to wrap the plastic lined newspaper in even more newspaper to insulate the plants. The larger USPS Priority Mail boxes would hold a LOT more but come with increasing shipping fees. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gwydryn@... Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 and to think that last week I threw out a 5 gallon bucket FULL of hornworth... Anyway, how would you ship that? Enid In a message dated 1/19/2010 10:02:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: Got a decent bunch of hornwort, maybe the size of a fist? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46129	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

I thought we decided you could not dechlor your water AND eat the herbs? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics I did that and got a lot of instructions on how to turn an aquarium tank into a hydroponic water source, but nothing about being able to keep fish in the aquarium at the same time. I guess I'll just keep flipping pages on the Google search until I see something that might work. I'd try Bing, but I never seem to get anything different there than I do on Google. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google - aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've looked at sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a Favorites folder for the topic. Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would read them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:39 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some of the nitrates. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46130	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics

And we use it under our substrate to protect the bottom when we pile 200 pounds of rocks on the glass. It’s sold for lighting fixtures. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquaponics You can get it from Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, OSH etc. Many people use them as dividers in tanks. Some use them for Synodontis petricola breeding. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jan 20, 2010 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquaponics This is just an example of the grating I was talking about, apparently they call it "egg crate" http://www.capitolp <http://www.capitolplastics.com/plas_para_louvers2.htm> lastics.com/plas_para_louvers2.htm Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > Thanks, Amber. I was actually thinking of using my spider plant's next > batch of babies as guinea pigs for this project. I'm having trouble > picturing the hollow grating. Maybe if I sleep on it it'll give me some > insight. I did find some YouTube videos that gave me some things to think > about. And I discovered the correct term for Googling, when live fish are > involved, is Aquaponics. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com> > > > >> Ahh, I have an option for you, let me check my links. It's not a garden, >> but the poster used a hollow grating to put on top of one side of his >> fish tank so that plants could grow up from the tank and use this as >> support, he also put house plants on the top portion of this grate and >> let the roots dangle in the water (with a spider plant), I don't see any >> reason why you couldn't do the same with a different type of plant. >> Tomatoes would really like the nitrates, but you might have to "feed >> them" fertilizers so that might not be a good idea, as they typically >> require more nutrients during their "bloom" (growing the tomatoes). >> Would be worth it to test it out though. >> Darn the pictures on the link were no longer good, so I can't show you a >> picture of what the guy did, but I would think any type of plastic >> grating with holes big enough for plants, but small enough so they don't >> fall through should work out okay. >> >> Amber >> >> Menagerie_Manager wrote: >> >>> This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last >>> year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up >>> a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some >>> herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited >>> in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe >>> use some of the nitrates. >>> >>> DebR and the Three Goldfish >>> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46131	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

That response was sent before reading Mike's (it was Mike, wasn't it?) warning, but there's got to be something that will remove the chlorine that isn't harmful to humans. As I said in a different message, I'll be using spider plants to start, if it gets that far. I'm just kind of testing the waters right now. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> I thought we decided you could not dechlor your water AND eat the herbs? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager I did that and got a lot of instructions on how to turn an aquarium tank into a hydroponic water source, but nothing about being able to keep fish in the aquarium at the same time. I guess I'll just keep flipping pages on the Google search until I see something that might work. I'd try Bing, but I never seem to get anything different there than I do on Google. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google - aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've looked at sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a Favorites folder for the topic. Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would read them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:39 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some of the nitrates. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46132	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaponics

The guy who was doing this just squeezed the roots through the spaces in the egg crating and let the plant rest on the egg crating with the roots dangling in the water. Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > Was it just regular plant pots sitting on top with the roots hanging > through the bottoms of the pots? > > I've also got kind of an idea fomenting in the back of my head about > maybe using the run off from the AquaClear filters so that I don't have to > add another pump and siphon system. Can't quite see how that one would > work, though. > > At least the goldfish won't outgrow this project before it gets built > (if it ever does). There's no way they'll fit through the tubes I bought to > make the water bridge last year, hehe. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > > >> This is just an example of the grating I was talking about, apparently >> they call it "egg crate" >> http://www.capitolplastics.com/plas_para_louvers2.htm >> >> Amber >> >> Menagerie_Manager wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Amber. I was actually thinking of using my spider plant's >>> next >>> batch of babies as guinea pigs for this project. I'm having trouble >>> picturing the hollow grating. Maybe if I sleep on it it'll give me some >>> insight. I did find some YouTube videos that gave me some things to >>> think >>> about. And I discovered the correct term for Googling, when live fish >>> are >>> involved, is Aquaponics. >>> >>> DebR and the Three Goldfish >>> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ahh, I have an option for you, let me check my links. It's not a garden, >>>> but the poster used a hollow grating to put on top of one side of his >>>> fish tank so that plants could grow up from the tank and use this as >>>> support, he also put house plants on the top portion of this grate and >>>> let the roots dangle in the water (with a spider plant), I don't see any >>>> reason why you couldn't do the same with a different type of plant. >>>> Tomatoes would really like the nitrates, but you might have to "feed >>>> them" fertilizers so that might not be a good idea, as they typically >>>> require more nutrients during their "bloom" (growing the tomatoes). >>>> Would be worth it to test it out though. >>>> Darn the pictures on the link were no longer good, so I can't show you a >>>> picture of what the guy did, but I would think any type of plastic >>>> grating with holes big enough for plants, but small enough so they don't >>>> fall through should work out okay. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> Menagerie_Manager wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last >>>>> year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up >>>>> a hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some >>>>> herbs or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited >>>>> in my home and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe >>>>> use some of the nitrates. >>>>> >>>>> DebR and the Three Goldfish >>>>> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >>>>> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >>> You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >>> to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >>> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >>> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >>> on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >>> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >>> replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46133	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

I sent a link showing a type of dechlor that is non-toxic and says it's safe, even if overdosed upon. Novaqua I think it was called (by Kents). I can only assume that there's more than just one out there that's safe for fish that will be eaten, after-all that's what a fish farm is ;) Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > That response was sent before reading Mike's (it was Mike, wasn't it?) > warning, but there's got to be something that will remove the chlorine > that > isn't harmful to humans. As I said in a different message, I'll be using > spider plants to start, if it gets that far. I'm just kind of testing the > waters right now. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net>> > > I thought we decided you could not dechlor your water AND eat the herbs? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > I did that and got a lot of instructions on how to turn an aquarium > tank into a hydroponic water source, but nothing about being able to keep > fish in the aquarium at the same time. I guess I'll just keep flipping > pages on the Google search until I see something that might work. I'd try > Bing, but I never seem to get anything different there than I do on > Google. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google - > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a > Favorites folder for the topic. > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would read > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hydroponics > > This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last > year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a > hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some herbs > or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my home > and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some > of the > nitrates. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ------------------------------------ > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46134	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)

Lainey, I was wondering if you understood what I meant when I tried to explain how much BBS I use. It's like an 1/8" bead along the bottom edge of the thermometer, but like I said, you could probably get away with a 1/16" bead, You'll know when the fry are getting their fill of BBS when you see their bellies bulging with an orange color. If their bellies aren't bulging, they may not be able to handle it yet after all. I'm glad to see they're taking the liquifry. Good to see you using it sparingly as it can cloud the water. Quite often, when using this product the fry may not eat very much of it but it will help create infusoria and rotifers which the fish then in turn eat. After 3 or 4 days of feeding them on liquifry, they should have no trouble eating the BBS and should take off from there on. I don't think 2 drops of liquifry per feeding would be enough to foul the tank, so unless you see the water remaing cloudy between feedings, you shouldn't have to do PWC's more often than once a day. As for cleaning up the bottom, you're right, you can't syphon the debris off as you'll get fry with it. Try the turkey baster or use a length of air line tubing being careful not to get too near the fry. I don't know how high in Wattage your tank light is, but as you know, you can expect some algae if you increase the duration they're on, especially if they're moderately bright. Still, you may need to increase the lighting period to at least 12 hours -- but it really doesn't need to be that bright. No problem walking you through this -- since we both gain <g>. I raise the fish and you do all the work (LOL). Well, if all goes right, you should have a nice batch of juvies (juveniles) in a short while. You probably haven't thought too far ahead yet, but what are you going to do if the parents spawn again ??? (ROTFL). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46135	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)

Ha ha... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 9:59 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > You probably haven't > thought too far ahead yet, but what are you going to do if the > parents spawn > again ??? (ROTFL). Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46136	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Corys aiming High!

Can you post a photo of one of them with this spot? It sounds like it might be a protozoan I had on my pandas. Photo will help. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate carefully, it's normal in all three corys. > But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the three developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, there's nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a white spot instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the corys have this spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, while the third has his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are symmetric and spread equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this a coloration or should I be worried? > The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I don't know their age. > > Noura > äæÑÇ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46137	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)

A help here?  I don't know how familiar you are with Under Gravel filters but in the package there is a thing we call Rigid Line.  This piece of plastic tube is rigid, about 16 to 18" long and is used to plug into the air stones that come with the kit.   This tubing is 3/16" ID 5/16 OD and would be a great help to you in your vacuuming chores.  IF the LPS doesn't have you can find it here: http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=465     Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More questions for Ray (SORRY) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 9:59 PM Lainey,  I was wondering if you understood what I meant when I tried to explain how much BBS I use.  It's like an 1/8" bead along the bottom edge of the thermometer, but like I said, you could probably get away with a 1/16" bead,  You'll know when the fry are getting their fill of BBS when you see their bellies bulging with an orange color.  If their bellies aren't bulging, they may not be able to handle it yet after all.  I'm glad to see they're taking the liquifry.  Good to see you using it sparingly as it can cloud the water.  Quite often, when using this product the fry may not eat very much of it but it will help create infusoria and rotifers which the fish then in turn eat.  After 3 or 4 days of feeding them on liquifry, they should have no trouble eating the BBS and should take off from there on. I don't think 2 drops of liquifry per feeding would be enough to foul the tank, so unless you see the water remaing cloudy between feedings, you shouldn't have to do PWC's more often than once a day.  As for cleaning up the bottom, you're right, you can't syphon the debris off as you'll get fry with it.  Try the turkey baster or use a length of air line tubing being careful not to get too near the fry.    I don't know how high in Wattage your tank light is, but as you know, you can expect some algae if you increase the duration they're on, especially if they're moderately bright.  Still, you may need to increase the lighting period to at least 12 hours -- but it really doesn't need to be that bright..  No problem walking you through this -- since we both gain <g>.  I raise the fish and you do all the work (LOL).  Well, if all goes right, you should have a nice batch of juvies (juveniles) in a short while.  You probably haven't thought too far ahead yet, but what are you going to do if the parents spawn again ??? (ROTFL).  Ray  </HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46138	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)

Sometimes I believe you think w-a-y ahead of me!  <G>   Bill --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More questions for Ray (SORRY) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 10:06 PM Ha ha... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 9:59 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > You probably haven't > thought too far ahead yet, but what are you going to do if the  > parents spawn > again ??? (ROTFL). Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46139	From: greychildren	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: omg im a new dad!!

well me and my wife were looking at my 40g tank were we have a fire mouth and a pink convict. to my surprise they had fry's..is this common? Have i created a new species by accident? your input in this matter is appreciated. tried to take pics but there too small.. what food should i give them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46140	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)

Lainey, Please don't mind my having a little fun, maybe it's just that I'm happy for you that things are going well so far. It's a pleasure helping you through this, but we're far from being out of the woods yet. There's still a lot of work and anxiety ahead. The clouding water is something to be concerned about if it gets excessive, but only you can determine if it's really getting bad since I can't see it from this end. While two drops doesn't seem like much, it can accumulate and change the environment. If the water does look too cloudy to you, don't hesitate to make an extra PWC if you feel it needs it. I'm banking on the fry eating most of the Liquifry though, as, if they're no eating that and can't handle the BBS yet they wouldn't get enough nutrition. Fortunately, if they are eating it, it should only be for a few days. Please indicate if you see fat orange stomachs on the fry when you feed them the BBS. I'll catch up with you in the morning, but for now I have fish work to take care of. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46141	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)

OK, I will make sure to keep the pollution under control, that is something I do know how to do, thankfully. Of course WCs with a turkey baster doesn't sound like the best part of this project... But I want to be clear about this: I should feed three to five times in a twelve hour period and then NO FOOD for twelve hours? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:03 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Please don't mind my having a little fun, maybe it's just that > I'm happy for you that things are going well so far. It's a > pleasure helping > you through this, but we're far from being out of the woods yet. > There's > still a lot of work and anxiety ahead. The clouding water is > something to be > concerned about if it gets excessive, but only you can determine if > it's > really getting bad since I can't see it from this end. While two > drops doesn't > seem like much, it can accumulate and change the environment. If > the water > does look too cloudy to you, don't hesitate to make an extra PWC if > you > feel it needs it. I'm banking on the fry eating most of the > Liquifry though, > as, if they're no eating that and can't handle the BBS yet they > wouldn't get > enough nutrition. Fortunately, if they are eating it, it should > only be for > a few days. Please indicate if you see fat orange stomachs on the > fry when > you feed them the BBS. I'll catch up with you in the morning, but > for now > I have fish work to take care of. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46142	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Hmmm . . . for some reason that message was delayed a couple of hours. I just scrolled back and found it sitting unopened. I figured there had to be something. Thanks for making my search easier. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >I sent a link showing a type of dechlor that is non-toxic and says it's > safe, even if overdosed upon. Novaqua I think it was called (by Kents). > I can only assume that there's more than just one out there that's safe > for fish that will be eaten, after-all that's what a fish farm is ;) > > Amber > > Menagerie_Manager wrote: >> >> That response was sent before reading Mike's (it was Mike, wasn't it?) >> warning, but there's got to be something that will remove the chlorine >> that >> isn't harmful to humans. As I said in a different message, I'll be using >> spider plants to start, if it gets that far. I'm just kind of testing the >> waters right now. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... >> <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net>> >> >> I thought we decided you could not dechlor your water AND eat the herbs? >> >> _____ >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> On >> Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager >> >> I did that and got a lot of instructions on how to turn an aquarium >> tank into a hydroponic water source, but nothing about being able to keep >> fish in the aquarium at the same time. I guess I'll just keep flipping >> pages on the Google search until I see something that might work. I'd try >> Bing, but I never seem to get anything different there than I do on >> Google. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> >> >> I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google - >> aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've >> looked at >> sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a >> Favorites folder for the topic. >> >> Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would read >> them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com >> >> On >> Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager >> >> >> This may turn out to be a pipe dream like my water bridge project last >> year, but does anyone know of any websites that show you how to set up a >> hydroponic garden above a populated aquarium? I'd like to grow some herbs >> or maybe even tomatoes during the winter, but space is limited in my home >> and I thought above the aquarium could save space and maybe use some >> of the >> nitrates. >> >> DebR and the Three Goldfish >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) >> >> ------------------------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46143	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)

In place of the turkey baster, which would be a chore, you could use the thin rigid plastic tubing the Bill suggested. As I was emailing you about using air line tubing, I had it in mind to include this tubing also as I was picturing it in my mind, but I all too soon lost track of this intention. Thanks to Bill, he brought it up afterwards. Air line tubing will fit onto the end of this plastic tubing so you could work the tubing as a vacuum cleaner and have the attached flexible air line tubing from it drape over the side of the tank into a bucket. When working around fry like this, you always want to drain the water into a bucket first to see it you unknowingly syphoned out some fry. Yes, feed the fry within the twelve hour period and let them rest for the other twelve hour period. You may want to consider feeding them a maximum of four times a day as five times a day would mean feeding them every 2 1/2 hours. The best benefit from feeding five times a day is really had when on a 24 hour schedule, where they will chow down so much more each feeding (they won't eat as much at each feeding when they're being fed every 2 1/2 hours. Some breeders keep their fry rearing lighting on 24 hours a day and feed them every 4.8 hours (when they will eat more at each feeding); this is called "force-feeding." While it's not considered as being harmful to the fish, it will put on growth in the least amount of time, but one has to wonder if it's ever detrimental to deprive the fish of a normal lengthy sleep period. If you prefer feeding them 5 times a day, and feel up to feeding the fish every 3 hours, you could then schedule a 15+ hour day for them, with allowing for an extra 15 minutes at the end of the last feeding before dousing the lights. I'd suggest not to use your tank hood for this 15+ hours of light as you'd surely invite algae. Hatcheries are set up with ceiling lighting down the center of the isles, as four or eight foot Fluorescent shop lights, which do not impact algae as much. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46144	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: More Gastromyzon pics

So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used to the feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating the "baked gel food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's shells but they sure were having fun ;) LOL http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics

And luckily them little guys are streamlined so they don't get blown off by the currents of the snails zipping around the tank. ;-) But really, they're probably looking at each other saying, "These sure are some pretty rocks... but do you think we're feeling after-shocks from Haiti... I swear my rock just moved!" I wonder if the snails had horse tails... would they be swishing at these flies on their backs? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] More Gastromyzon pics So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used to the feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating the "baked gel food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's shells but they sure were having fun ;) LOL http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/20/2010
Subject: Re: More questions for Ray (SORRY)

When it's time to vacuum the gravel in my cherry shrimp tank and I have a fresh new batch of shrimplets running around, I put a net over the siphon tube of my Python and then siphon the bottom, trying to steer clear of the fry but at least I get the small detritus that will fit through the fine mesh and I also can siphon water a lot faster than trying to use a turkey baster. I use a slow flow rate when siphoning so that even if a shrimplet gets picked up and caught by the net, it can crawl or swim away when I turn the water valve off. Since Ray said he was going off to work on his fish, in his instructions a couple of days ago, he said to feed a minimum of three times a day but better to feed five times a day. I'm not sure where you're getting the 12 hours from. I would split the five feedings up evenly through a 24 hour day... maybe taking off six hours for sleep.. then feed every 3-4 hours. They are just like human babies and have high metabolisms and growth rates so they need to be fed smaller amounts but often. Too bad they can't wail when they're hungry.. then you'd know for sure when you hear them screaming their lungs out at 2 in the morning... and then you elbow John in the back and tell him to go feed the babies. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More questions for Ray (SORRY) OK, I will make sure to keep the pollution under control, that is something I do know how to do, thankfully. Of course WCs with a turkey baster doesn't sound like the best part of this project... But I want to be clear about this: I should feed three to five times in a twelve hour period and then NO FOOD for twelve hours? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:03 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Please don't mind my having a little fun, maybe it's just that > I'm happy for you that things are going well so far. It's a pleasure > helping you through this, but we're far from being out of the woods > yet. > There's > still a lot of work and anxiety ahead. The clouding water is something > to be concerned about if it gets excessive, but only you can determine > if it's really getting bad since I can't see it from this end. While > two drops doesn't seem like much, it can accumulate and change the > environment. If the water does look too cloudy to you, don't hesitate > to make an extra PWC if you feel it needs it. I'm banking on the fry > eating most of the Liquifry though, as, if they're no eating that and > can't handle the BBS yet they wouldn't get enough nutrition. > Fortunately, if they are eating it, it should only be for a few days. > Please indicate if you see fat orange stomachs on the fry when you > feed them the BBS. I'll catch up with you in the morning, but for now > I have fish work to take care of. Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46147	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics

Fantastic pictures! I'm sure you've told us before, but what kind of camera did you use? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used to the feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating the "baked gel food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's shells but they sure were having fun ;) LOL http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46148	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics

I think it's more like, "Just a little higher and to the right, please . . . ahhhh! That's the spot!" DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I wonder if the snails had horse tails... would they be swishing at these flies on their backs? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used to the feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating the "baked gel food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's shells but they sure were having fun ;) LOL http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46149	From: john Lewis	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: They

Hello:    That's exciting!!!  Keep up the good work.  Rams are great little cichlids.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, the "CReature") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46150	From: Noura	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Still Aquaponics

I don't know if this helps, I liked the picture! http://blizzard.rwic.und.edu/~nordlie/aquaponics/ Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46151	From: dumasjohnj@netscape.net	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Siphon type 2

I guess I will hang a clear box around my power filter intake and run siphons to make up the sucked out water; it will also act as a pre-filter, as well as saving baby fish. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46152	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

The Bill that wanr hornworth! of course! Enid In a message dated 1/20/2010 7:00:19 P.M. Central Standard Time, warrenprint@... writes: One question here? Which "Bill" or Bill "who" are you talking about here. I must have missed some mails somewhere please forgive if I am not the right Bill?? And Len? It's all right, I already sent for more coffee! Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46153	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Siphon type 2

Why not just put an open-cell sponge block over the intake strainer? Or even sliding a small pore filter media bag over the intake will work. That's what I use on my Cherry Shrimp tank. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13961 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dumasjohnj@... Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 7:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Siphon type 2 I guess I will hang a clear box around my power filter intake and run siphons to make up the sucked out water; it will also act as a pre-filter, as well as saving baby fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46154	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics

It's more like a Snail hair cut I think ;) LOL. The pleco's clean them off occasionally but they're not as gentle as the little Gastromyzon's, the pleco's tend to knock the snail about and make it close up for fear of it's life, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > And luckily them little guys are streamlined so they don't get blown > off by > the currents of the snails zipping around the tank. ;-) > > But really, they're probably looking at each other saying, "These sure are > some pretty rocks... but do you think we're feeling after-shocks from > Haiti... I swear my rock just moved!" > > I wonder if the snails had horse tails... would they be swishing at these > flies on their backs? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] More Gastromyzon pics > > So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used > to the > feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating the > "baked gel > food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's shells but they sure > were having fun ;) LOL > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg> > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg> > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg> > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg> > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46155	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics

I use a Panasonic DMC-LZ5, it's a few years old now, but takes very good pictures, has a very fast shutter speed for speedy kids/critters/etc, and those were taken with just the macro mode (not the speedy mode). Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > Fantastic pictures! I'm sure you've told us before, but what kind of > camera did you use? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used to > the feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating the > "baked gel food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's shells > but they sure were having fun ;) LOL > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg> > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg> > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg> > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg> > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46156	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Hey!  That's me!  But your mail said you just threw out a bucket full? I doubt that you could send me that much, although I'd love to have it! If you could keep me posted on your next trimming schedule, I would much appreciate it.  Contact directly off group if you would like, here again is my E address:  warrenprint@...   Thanks a bunch!   Bill --- On Thu, 1/21/10, Gwydryn@... <Gwydryn@...> wrote: From: Gwydryn@... <Gwydryn@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010, 8:51 AM The Bill that wanr hornworth! of course! Enid In a message dated 1/20/2010 7:00:19 P.M. Central Standard Time,  warrenprint@... writes: One  question here? Which "Bill" or Bill "who" are you talking about here. I  must have missed some mails somewhere please forgive if I am not the right  Bill?? And Len? It's all right, I already sent for more  coffee! Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics

Wow.. how were you able to get snail pics without using the speedy mode. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More Gastromyzon pics I use a Panasonic DMC-LZ5, it's a few years old now, but takes very good pictures, has a very fast shutter speed for speedy kids/critters/etc, and those were taken with just the macro mode (not the speedy mode). Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > Fantastic pictures! I'm sure you've told us before, but what kind of > camera did you use? > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used > to the feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating > the "baked gel food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's > shells but they sure were having fun ;) LOL > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg> > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg> > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg> > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg> > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46158	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics

Oh that's easy, I match speed with the snail, just gotta keep up ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Wow.. how were you able to get snail pics without using the speedy > mode. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More Gastromyzon pics > > I use a Panasonic DMC-LZ5, it's a few years old now, but takes very good > pictures, has a very fast shutter speed for speedy kids/critters/etc, and > those were taken with just the macro mode (not the speedy mode). > > Amber > > Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > > > Fantastic pictures! I'm sure you've told us before, but what kind of > > camera did you use? > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used > > to the feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating > > the "baked gel food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's > > shells but they sure were having fun ;) LOL > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg>> > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg> > > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg>> > > > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg> > > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg>> > > > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg> > > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg>> > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46159	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics

WOW! Are your snails that big? Or are the new fishies that small? I'd love to follow in your footsteps and create a snail tank. I LOVED the pictures of your purple snails and have wished for the space to keep a bunch of them myself. But no room. :o( ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used to > the feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating the > "baked gel food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's shells > but they sure were having fun ;) LOL > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46160	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: More Gastromyzon pics

My biggest mystery snails are about an inch and 3/4, possibly almost 2 inches. They are fully grown little pigs ;) LOL. I enjoy watching the snails, and even my dad wanted a couple after he saw mine crawling around my tanks ;) Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > WOW! Are your snails that big? Or are the new fishies that small? > > I'd love to follow in your footsteps and create a snail tank. I LOVED > the pictures of your purple snails and have wished for the space to > keep a bunch of them myself. But no room. :o( > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > So I managed to get a few cute pics of my Gastromyzon's getting used to > > the feeding habits of the tank, I'm not sure if they were eating the > > "baked gel food" or if they were just cleaning off the snail's shells > > but they sure were having fun ;) LOL > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4292573854_1b1b2eb590_b.jpg> > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4291832135_2e9686c064_b.jpg> > > > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4291838587_062d493221_b.jpg> > > > > http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg > <http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4291836051_ee52550f9b_b.jpg> > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46161	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Still Aquaponics

Thanks, Noura. It was interesting reading about the problems this guy had with his system. It gives me more things to think about before I start a project. One thing I do have to deal with is the fact that my tank is 30 inches high and I'm only 5' 1" tall. The top of the tank is chin level for me. Any system I develop needs to have a low profile and not be so heavy that I can't lift it down to clean the tank. I'm leaning towards the egg crate sheet that Amber mentioned with a low profile plastic tub on top. I could test it with spider plant babies and then maybe use it to grow herbs or even alfalfa and bean sprouts if nothing else, although I don't suppose the sprouts would use up enough nitrates to be worth the effort. Now to figure out the plumbing . . . the ideas in my head seem to be doing more fermenting than fomenting in this area. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noura" <n-taweel@...> I don't know if this helps, I liked the picture! http://blizzard.rwic.und.edu/~nordlie/aquaponics/ Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46162	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

In a message dated 1/21/2010 10:14:37 A.M. Central Standard Time, warrenprint@... writes: Hey! That's me! But your mail said you just threw out a bucket full? I doubt that you could send me that much, although I'd love to have it! If you could keep me posted on your next trimming schedule, I would much appreciate it. Contact directly off group if you would like, here again is my E address: _warrenprint@warrenpri_ (mailto:warrenprint@...) Thanks a bunch! Bi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46163	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

Dang it! I sent without a message... Anyway, as soon as the tank gets overgrown ( again) I'll let you know! Enid In a message dated 1/21/2010 10:14:37 A.M. Central Standard Time, warrenprint@... writes: Hey! That's me! But your mail said you just threw out a bucket full? I doubt that you could send me that much, although I'd love to have it! If you could keep me posted on your next trimming schedule, I would much appreciate it. Contact directly off group if you would like, here again is my E address: _warrenprint@warrenpri_ (mailto:warrenprint@...) Thanks a bunch! Bi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46164	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: Easy low-tech DIY CO2

That's much appreciated! Bill --- On Thu, 1/21/10, Gwydryn@... <Gwydryn@...> wrote: > From: Gwydryn@... <Gwydryn@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Easy low-tech DIY CO2 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010, 6:52 PM > Dang it! I sent without a message... > Anyway, as soon as the tank gets overgrown ( again) I'll > let you  know! > Enid > > > In a message dated 1/21/2010 10:14:37 A.M. Central Standard > Time,  > warrenprint@... > writes: > > Hey!  That's me!  But your mail said you just > threw out a  bucket full? > I doubt that you could send me that much, although > I'd  love to have it! > If you could keep me posted on your next trimming  > schedule, I would much > appreciate it.  Contact directly off group if  > you would like, here again is > my E address:  _warrenprint@warrenpri_ (mailto:warrenprint@...) > > > Thanks  a bunch! > > Bi > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46165	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: FW: WIN a $250.00 Aquarium Package!

Just forwarding the below to the group in case anyone who qualifies wants to try and win this. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Drs. Foster and Smith Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:23 PM To: Subject: WIN a $250.00 Aquarium Package! Attention 3rd & 4th grade teachers, students and parents: enter our aquarium essay contest and your classroom might be one of 25 winners! Having trouble viewing this email? Please view online here: http://broadcaster01.drsfostersmith.com/bin/display_msg?id=987C2F2521E16A2CC E4F2A217C13BBEB

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46166	From: pam andress	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Re: FW: WIN a $250.00 Aquarium Package!

Thanks, Lenny! I forwarded this to my school district. Pam Just forwarding the below to the group in case anyone who qualifies wants to try and win this. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Drs. Foster and Smith Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:23 PM To: Subject: WIN a $250.00 Aquarium Package! Attention 3rd & 4th grade teachers, students and parents: enter our aquarium essay contest and your classroom might be one of 25 winners! Having trouble viewing this email? Please view online here: http://broadcaster01.drsfostersmith.com/bin/display_msg?id=987C2F2521E16A2CC E4F2A217C13BBEB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46167	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/21/2010
Subject: Ram fry update

The ram babies are doing very well. They look to be double the size they were yesterday and I can see them eating just about everything they see. They are scattered all over the ten g which means I have to spray food all over the water column rather than target feeding, but it seems OK so far. I have numerous tests going on the water each day to make sure it's clean, and so far it's good. I am using the turkey baster to clean, got the dead mosquito out along with some other dubious inhabitants. No need for magnification today! And now that I can see them, they're pretty adorable:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46168	From: William M	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also need to provide light for the plants to grow. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you Google - > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've looked at > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a > Favorites folder for the topic. > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would read > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46169	From: amejia1976	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Water Parameters...finally

Hello everyone, So I finally got the gH and kH test. Below are my test results: 10g US pH 7.6 Ammo 0ppm Nitri 0ppm Nitra 20ppm gH 8 kH 6 Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been identical every week since 1/5/10 for 10g tank 75g US pH 7.6 Ammo 0ppm Nitri 0ppm Nitra 5ppm gH 9 kH 6 Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been similar since 12/8/09 with the exeption of Nitrates which were at 10ppm but are now @ 5ppm - this could be due to a 30% pwc last week. All tests were done weekly since 12/8/9 I have not yet done a water baseline test but will have one by Monday. That said, will I be able to move Emerald Corys, Zebra Danios, Chinese Algea Eater, Neon Tetras from the 10g to the 75g or should I hold off until ALL parameters match and/or give it more time to run the tests again? I would be moving each species a week apart to give time for the tank to adjust. The 75g has 2 pieces of driftwood, 7 sets of fake (plastic) plants, 300w heater, 9 guppies (5 weeks old), and 7 ghost shrimp. Both tanks are set to 78 degrees F ohhh, and to any newbies such as me - when doing pwc's MAKE SURE TO TURN OFF AND DISCONNECT ANY HEATERS OR THEY WILL BLOW - I personally vouch for this. Alex Semper Fi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46170	From: noura_taweel	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

Here are some photos of my Corys, I described the spots in my post below. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list If the link breaks, check the album "Corys" in the photo section, you'll find it easily when you choose "last modified". What do you see? A coloration or a disease? Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > Can you post a photo of one of them with this spot? It sounds like it might be a protozoan I had on my pandas. Photo will help. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate carefully, it's normal in all three corys. > > But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the three developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, there's nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a white spot instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the corys have this spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, while the third has his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are symmetric and spread equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this a coloration or should I be worried? > > The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I don't know their age. > > > > Noura > > äæÑÇ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46171	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

Are you talking about that large oval shaped grayish area right next to/below the dorsal fin? That's certainly not a parasite like Ich or Velvet, both of which show up as looking like the fish was sprinkled with something that is showing up on top of the skin. Ich looks like salt. Velvet looks more like dust, usually golden in color. Your pictures do not show anything that looks like it's above the level of the skin but only you could tell this for certain by looking at the fish from different angles. In either case, these parasites would not form symmetrical patterns but would be randomly scattered around the fish. If that oval shaped grayish area is symmetrical (on both sides of the fish), as you stated in your earlier post, then it's most certainly normal symmetrical coloration of the fish. Do you know the actual species? Knowing that would allow you to look for other photos of adult fish of the same species to see if they have similar markings. Fry and Juvi fish almost never look like what they will grow up to be... and this seems to be even more so in the catfish family. If you do not know exactly what species you bought, when buying a catfish species, you could find yourself with quite a surprise as it matures. Fortunately, with the Corydoras species, you shouldn't find yourself with a GIANT fish as I do not know of any GIANT Corydoras that are commonly available in the pet fish industry... and the one that has the common name, Giant Corydoras, http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html only grows to around 5" so it's not really a true *GIANT*, when you consider that some other catfish grow to 6 feet to 10 feet long... but when they are catching wild fish, you never know what the net might pick up along with their desired catch so there's always a chance of getting an unwanted GIANT fish species or sometimes even a rare and very expensive species if the store actually knew what they were selling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of noura_taweel Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 8:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!) Here are some photos of my Corys, I described the spots in my post below. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list If the link breaks, check the album "Corys" in the photo section, you'll find it easily when you choose "last modified". What do you see? A coloration or a disease? Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > Can you post a photo of one of them with this spot? It sounds like it might be a protozoan I had on my pandas. Photo will help. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate carefully, it's normal in all three corys. > > But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the three developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, there's nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a white spot instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the corys have this spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, while the third has his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are symmetric and spread equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this a coloration or should I be worried? > > The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I don't know their age. > > > > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally

Wow... I thought you had made the switch a long time ago. I remember giving directions on doing partial exchanges of water between the two tanks until the waters were nearly identical and then moving the fish. In either case, your water is similar enough to make the move... except you didn't list the water temperature. If that is the same in both tanks, then it should be safe to make the quick move. (oops.. I see down near the bottom that you list both at 78F... HINT: when listing parameters, it's best to list temperature with the rest of them) The only question I do have is do you have any fish in the 75G right now? What have you been doing to keep the 75G cycled... if anything? If you haven't been keeping it fishless cycled, then you should also move a proportionate part of the filter media from the 10G to the 75G when you move some of the fish... or if you are moving all of the fish, then move the entire filter from the 10G to the 75G and leave it running for 4-6 weeks while the uncycled filter that is currently on the 75G gets cycled. OR... if the filter on the 75G can handle all of the media from the 10G's filter, just put all of the media into the reservoir of the 75G's filter and that should suffice. Still check your ammonia/nitrites over the next week or two to make sure you do not get a large spike in either. Oops.. I should have read all of your email before starting my reply.. but on long posts, I usually reply paragraph by paragraph for simplicity. I see you do have some fish in the 75G so if I was you, I would move all of the fish (unless you were planning on keeping some in the 10G) and the entire filter system to the 75G and then just monitor for any possibly mini-cycle issues. As far as your heater issue.. if your heater is submersible, I find that once it's in the tank and set and calibrated and keeping the correct temperature, then it's best to put it down horizontal at the bottom behind plants/decorations so you do not have the ugly heater even showing. You can run the cord down one of the back corners. For folks setting up new tanks or breaking down a tank for re-setting up, I strongly suggest adding these types of clips http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317 to both rear corners to hold airlines and cords out of sight. There are various sizes, colors (I use black) and attachment methods but I always remove the double stick tape stuff and just use aquarium silicone or 2-part epoxy to glue them into the corners. Obviously, ignore any of the clips that require nailing or screwing in since they would not work. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Parameters...finally Hello everyone, So I finally got the gH and kH test. Below are my test results: 10g US pH 7.6 Ammo 0ppm Nitri 0ppm Nitra 20ppm gH 8 kH 6 Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been identical every week since 1/5/10 for 10g tank 75g US pH 7.6 Ammo 0ppm Nitri 0ppm Nitra 5ppm gH 9 kH 6 Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been similar since 12/8/09 with the exeption of Nitrates which were at 10ppm but are now @ 5ppm - this could be due to a 30% pwc last week. All tests were done weekly since 12/8/9 I have not yet done a water baseline test but will have one by Monday. That said, will I be able to move Emerald Corys, Zebra Danios, Chinese Algea Eater, Neon Tetras from the 10g to the 75g or should I hold off until ALL parameters match and/or give it more time to run the tests again? I would be moving each species a week apart to give time for the tank to adjust. The 75g has 2 pieces of driftwood, 7 sets of fake (plastic) plants, 300w heater, 9 guppies (5 weeks old), and 7 ghost shrimp. Both tanks are set to 78 degrees F ohhh, and to any newbies such as me - when doing pwc's MAKE SURE TO TURN OFF AND DISCONNECT ANY HEATERS OR THEY WILL BLOW - I personally vouch for this. Alex Semper Fi ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46173	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

She said they were Aeneus cory's I thought, but this is going from memory ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Are you talking about that large oval shaped grayish area right next > to/below the dorsal fin? > > That's certainly not a parasite like Ich or Velvet, both of which show > up as > looking like the fish was sprinkled with something that is showing up > on top > of the skin. Ich looks like salt. Velvet looks more like dust, usually > golden in color. Your pictures do not show anything that looks like it's > above the level of the skin but only you could tell this for certain by > looking at the fish from different angles. In either case, these parasites > would not form symmetrical patterns but would be randomly scattered around > the fish. > > If that oval shaped grayish area is symmetrical (on both sides of the > fish), > as you stated in your earlier post, then it's most certainly normal > symmetrical coloration of the fish. > > Do you know the actual species? Knowing that would allow you to look for > other photos of adult fish of the same species to see if they have similar > markings. Fry and Juvi fish almost never look like what they will grow up > to be... and this seems to be even more so in the catfish family. If > you do > not know exactly what species you bought, when buying a catfish > species, you > could find yourself with quite a surprise as it matures. Fortunately, with > the Corydoras species, you shouldn't find yourself with a GIANT fish > as I do > not know of any GIANT Corydoras that are commonly available in the pet > fish > industry... and the one that has the common name, Giant Corydoras, > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html> only grows to > around 5" so it's not really a true *GIANT*, when you consider that some > other catfish grow to 6 feet to 10 feet long... but when they are catching > wild fish, you never know what the net might pick up along with their > desired catch so there's always a chance of getting an unwanted GIANT fish > species or sometimes even a rare and very expensive species if the store > actually knew what they were selling. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of noura_taweel > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 8:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming > High!) > > Here are some photos of my Corys, I described the spots in my post below. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list> > If the link breaks, check the album "Corys" in the photo section, you'll > find it easily when you choose "last modified". > > What do you see? A coloration or a disease? > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> > wrote: > > > > Can you post a photo of one of them with this spot? It sounds like it > might be a protozoan I had on my pandas. Photo will help. > > > > Byron. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Noura" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate carefully, > it's normal in all three corys. > > > But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the > three > developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, there's > nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a white spot > instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the corys have this > spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, while the third has > his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are symmetric and spread > equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this a coloration or should I > be worried? > > > The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I > don't know > their age. > > > > > > Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46174	From: amejia1976	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally

Lenny, I was waiting to get the kH/gH test too before moving too soon and loosing more fish. As for moving the entire filter system to the 75g i am not sure how to best do this. The 10g has a HOB filter and type specific media whereas the 75g has the wet/dry filter with the overflow box, prefilter unit, Purigen, felt padding, bioballs, postfilter and pump. How do you suggest I accomplish this moving of the filter system from the 10g? Do I just move the filter media from the HOB? Where would it go in the wet/dry? Thank you bunches for your guidance. Alex Semper Fi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Wow... I thought you had made the switch a long time ago. I remember giving > directions on doing partial exchanges of water between the two tanks until > the waters were nearly identical and then moving the fish. > > In either case, your water is similar enough to make the move... except you > didn't list the water temperature. If that is the same in both tanks, then > it should be safe to make the quick move. (oops.. I see down near the > bottom that you list both at 78F... HINT: when listing parameters, it's best > to list temperature with the rest of them) > > The only question I do have is do you have any fish in the 75G right now? > What have you been doing to keep the 75G cycled... if anything? If you > haven't been keeping it fishless cycled, then you should also move a > proportionate part of the filter media from the 10G to the 75G when you move > some of the fish... or if you are moving all of the fish, then move the > entire filter from the 10G to the 75G and leave it running for 4-6 weeks > while the uncycled filter that is currently on the 75G gets cycled. OR... > if the filter on the 75G can handle all of the media from the 10G's filter, > just put all of the media into the reservoir of the 75G's filter and that > should suffice. Still check your ammonia/nitrites over the next week or two > to make sure you do not get a large spike in either. > > Oops.. I should have read all of your email before starting my reply.. but > on long posts, I usually reply paragraph by paragraph for simplicity. I see > you do have some fish in the 75G so if I was you, I would move all of the > fish (unless you were planning on keeping some in the 10G) and the entire > filter system to the 75G and then just monitor for any possibly mini-cycle > issues. > > As far as your heater issue.. if your heater is submersible, I find that > once it's in the tank and set and calibrated and keeping the correct > temperature, then it's best to put it down horizontal at the bottom behind > plants/decorations so you do not have the ugly heater even showing. You can > run the cord down one of the back corners. > > For folks setting up new tanks or breaking down a tank for re-setting up, I > strongly suggest adding these types of clips > http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317 to both rear > corners to hold airlines and cords out of sight. There are various sizes, > colors (I use black) and attachment methods but I always remove the double > stick tape stuff and just use aquarium silicone or 2-part epoxy to glue them > into the corners. Obviously, ignore any of the clips that require nailing > or screwing in since they would not work. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Parameters...finally > > Hello everyone, > > So I finally got the gH and kH test. Below are my test results: > > 10g US > pH 7.6 > Ammo 0ppm > Nitri 0ppm > Nitra 20ppm > gH 8 > kH 6 > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been identical every week > since 1/5/10 for 10g tank > > 75g US > pH 7.6 > Ammo 0ppm > Nitri 0ppm > Nitra 5ppm > gH 9 > kH 6 > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been similar since 12/8/09 > with the exeption of Nitrates which were at 10ppm but are now @ 5ppm - this > could be due to a 30% pwc last week. All tests were done weekly since 12/8/9 > > I have not yet done a water baseline test but will have one by Monday. > > That said, will I be able to move Emerald Corys, Zebra Danios, Chinese Algea > Eater, Neon Tetras from the 10g to the 75g or should I hold off until ALL > parameters match and/or give it more time to run the tests again? I would be > moving each species a week apart to give time for the tank to adjust. > > The 75g has 2 pieces of driftwood, 7 sets of fake (plastic) plants, 300w > heater, 9 guppies (5 weeks old), and 7 ghost shrimp. > > Both tanks are set to 78 degrees F > > ohhh, and to any newbies such as me - when doing pwc's MAKE SURE TO TURN OFF > AND DISCONNECT ANY HEATERS OR THEY WILL BLOW - I personally vouch for this. > > Alex > Semper Fi > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46175	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally

Is the 10 gallon a little cartridge that you slide into the filter? Self contained with carbon inside, etc? If so you can put that cartridge in the same spot you have the bioballs, if it will fit. That's where it's going to do the most "work" and seed your bioballs with the nitrifying bacteria. If it won't fit you can put the little HOB filter onto the 75 gallon tank and run it while the wet/dry filter is also running, for (as Lenny said) 3-4 weeks. Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > Lenny, > > I was waiting to get the kH/gH test too before moving too soon and > loosing more fish. > > As for moving the entire filter system to the 75g i am not sure how to > best do this. The 10g has a HOB filter and type specific media whereas > the 75g has the wet/dry filter with the overflow box, prefilter unit, > Purigen, felt padding, bioballs, postfilter and pump. How do you > suggest I accomplish this moving of the filter system from the 10g? Do > I just move the filter media from the HOB? Where would it go in the > wet/dry? > > Thank you bunches for your guidance. > > Alex > Semper Fi > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Wow... I thought you had made the switch a long time ago. I remember > giving > > directions on doing partial exchanges of water between the two tanks > until > > the waters were nearly identical and then moving the fish. > > > > In either case, your water is similar enough to make the move... > except you > > didn't list the water temperature. If that is the same in both > tanks, then > > it should be safe to make the quick move. (oops.. I see down near the > > bottom that you list both at 78F... HINT: when listing parameters, > it's best > > to list temperature with the rest of them) > > > > The only question I do have is do you have any fish in the 75G right > now? > > What have you been doing to keep the 75G cycled... if anything? If you > > haven't been keeping it fishless cycled, then you should also move a > > proportionate part of the filter media from the 10G to the 75G when > you move > > some of the fish... or if you are moving all of the fish, then move the > > entire filter from the 10G to the 75G and leave it running for 4-6 weeks > > while the uncycled filter that is currently on the 75G gets cycled. > OR... > > if the filter on the 75G can handle all of the media from the 10G's > filter, > > just put all of the media into the reservoir of the 75G's filter and > that > > should suffice. Still check your ammonia/nitrites over the next week > or two > > to make sure you do not get a large spike in either. > > > > Oops.. I should have read all of your email before starting my > reply.. but > > on long posts, I usually reply paragraph by paragraph for > simplicity. I see > > you do have some fish in the 75G so if I was you, I would move all > of the > > fish (unless you were planning on keeping some in the 10G) and the > entire > > filter system to the 75G and then just monitor for any possibly > mini-cycle > > issues. > > > > As far as your heater issue.. if your heater is submersible, I find that > > once it's in the tank and set and calibrated and keeping the correct > > temperature, then it's best to put it down horizontal at the bottom > behind > > plants/decorations so you do not have the ugly heater even showing. > You can > > run the cord down one of the back corners. > > > > For folks setting up new tanks or breaking down a tank for > re-setting up, I > > strongly suggest adding these types of clips > > http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317 > <http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317> to > both rear > > corners to hold airlines and cords out of sight. There are various > sizes, > > colors (I use black) and attachment methods but I always remove the > double > > stick tape stuff and just use aquarium silicone or 2-part epoxy to > glue them > > into the corners. Obviously, ignore any of the clips that require > nailing > > or screwing in since they would not work. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:53 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Parameters...finally > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > So I finally got the gH and kH test. Below are my test results: > > > > 10g US > > pH 7.6 > > Ammo 0ppm > > Nitri 0ppm > > Nitra 20ppm > > gH 8 > > kH 6 > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been identical every week > > since 1/5/10 for 10g tank > > > > 75g US > > pH 7.6 > > Ammo 0ppm > > Nitri 0ppm > > Nitra 5ppm > > gH 9 > > kH 6 > > > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been similar since 12/8/09 > > with the exeption of Nitrates which were at 10ppm but are now @ 5ppm > - this > > could be due to a 30% pwc last week. All tests were done weekly > since 12/8/9 > > > > I have not yet done a water baseline test but will have one by Monday. > > > > That said, will I be able to move Emerald Corys, Zebra Danios, > Chinese Algea > > Eater, Neon Tetras from the 10g to the 75g or should I hold off > until ALL > > parameters match and/or give it more time to run the tests again? I > would be > > moving each species a week apart to give time for the tank to adjust. > > > > The 75g has 2 pieces of driftwood, 7 sets of fake (plastic) plants, 300w > > heater, 9 guppies (5 weeks old), and 7 ghost shrimp. > > > > Both tanks are set to 78 degrees F > > > > ohhh, and to any newbies such as me - when doing pwc's MAKE SURE TO > TURN OFF > > AND DISCONNECT ANY HEATERS OR THEY WILL BLOW - I personally vouch > for this. > > > > Alex > > Semper Fi > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46176	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally

Oops, Lenny said 4-6 weeks, not 3-4 weeks, sorry. Guess I need to finish my coffee, LOL. Amber amejia1976 wrote: > > Lenny, > > I was waiting to get the kH/gH test too before moving too soon and > loosing more fish. > > As for moving the entire filter system to the 75g i am not sure how to > best do this. The 10g has a HOB filter and type specific media whereas > the 75g has the wet/dry filter with the overflow box, prefilter unit, > Purigen, felt padding, bioballs, postfilter and pump. How do you > suggest I accomplish this moving of the filter system from the 10g? Do > I just move the filter media from the HOB? Where would it go in the > wet/dry? > > Thank you bunches for your guidance. > > Alex > Semper Fi > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Wow... I thought you had made the switch a long time ago. I remember > giving > > directions on doing partial exchanges of water between the two tanks > until > > the waters were nearly identical and then moving the fish. > > > > In either case, your water is similar enough to make the move... > except you > > didn't list the water temperature. If that is the same in both > tanks, then > > it should be safe to make the quick move. (oops.. I see down near the > > bottom that you list both at 78F... HINT: when listing parameters, > it's best > > to list temperature with the rest of them) > > > > The only question I do have is do you have any fish in the 75G right > now? > > What have you been doing to keep the 75G cycled... if anything? If you > > haven't been keeping it fishless cycled, then you should also move a > > proportionate part of the filter media from the 10G to the 75G when > you move > > some of the fish... or if you are moving all of the fish, then move the > > entire filter from the 10G to the 75G and leave it running for 4-6 weeks > > while the uncycled filter that is currently on the 75G gets cycled. > OR... > > if the filter on the 75G can handle all of the media from the 10G's > filter, > > just put all of the media into the reservoir of the 75G's filter and > that > > should suffice. Still check your ammonia/nitrites over the next week > or two > > to make sure you do not get a large spike in either. > > > > Oops.. I should have read all of your email before starting my > reply.. but > > on long posts, I usually reply paragraph by paragraph for > simplicity. I see > > you do have some fish in the 75G so if I was you, I would move all > of the > > fish (unless you were planning on keeping some in the 10G) and the > entire > > filter system to the 75G and then just monitor for any possibly > mini-cycle > > issues. > > > > As far as your heater issue.. if your heater is submersible, I find that > > once it's in the tank and set and calibrated and keeping the correct > > temperature, then it's best to put it down horizontal at the bottom > behind > > plants/decorations so you do not have the ugly heater even showing. > You can > > run the cord down one of the back corners. > > > > For folks setting up new tanks or breaking down a tank for > re-setting up, I > > strongly suggest adding these types of clips > > http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317 > <http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317> to > both rear > > corners to hold airlines and cords out of sight. There are various > sizes, > > colors (I use black) and attachment methods but I always remove the > double > > stick tape stuff and just use aquarium silicone or 2-part epoxy to > glue them > > into the corners. Obviously, ignore any of the clips that require > nailing > > or screwing in since they would not work. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of amejia1976 > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:53 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Parameters...finally > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > So I finally got the gH and kH test. Below are my test results: > > > > 10g US > > pH 7.6 > > Ammo 0ppm > > Nitri 0ppm > > Nitra 20ppm > > gH 8 > > kH 6 > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been identical every week > > since 1/5/10 for 10g tank > > > > 75g US > > pH 7.6 > > Ammo 0ppm > > Nitri 0ppm > > Nitra 5ppm > > gH 9 > > kH 6 > > > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been similar since 12/8/09 > > with the exeption of Nitrates which were at 10ppm but are now @ 5ppm > - this > > could be due to a 30% pwc last week. All tests were done weekly > since 12/8/9 > > > > I have not yet done a water baseline test but will have one by Monday. > > > > That said, will I be able to move Emerald Corys, Zebra Danios, > Chinese Algea > > Eater, Neon Tetras from the 10g to the 75g or should I hold off > until ALL > > parameters match and/or give it more time to run the tests again? I > would be > > moving each species a week apart to give time for the tank to adjust. > > > > The 75g has 2 pieces of driftwood, 7 sets of fake (plastic) plants, 300w > > heater, 9 guppies (5 weeks old), and 7 ghost shrimp. > > > > Both tanks are set to 78 degrees F > > > > ohhh, and to any newbies such as me - when doing pwc's MAKE SURE TO > TURN OFF > > AND DISCONNECT ANY HEATERS OR THEY WILL BLOW - I personally vouch > for this. > > > > Alex > > Semper Fi > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46177	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

I think it looks like natural coloration, but without a clear close up picture, or seeing them in person it's hard to tell, as Lenny said. They definitely look natural to me though. My peppered cory's started out mostly very dark in coloration but as they matured they lighted in patches so they have a dark grey almost black color, and a lighter grey coloring, they have 3 uniform dark spots on their back with smaller spots along their sides. I need to get some pictures of them at some point, but I have to walk all the way downstairs to do it ;) LOL. Are your cory's acting differently at all? I can't compare my albino aeneus cory's, as... well they are albino and have no spots ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Are you talking about that large oval shaped grayish area right next > to/below the dorsal fin? > > That's certainly not a parasite like Ich or Velvet, both of which show > up as > looking like the fish was sprinkled with something that is showing up > on top > of the skin. Ich looks like salt. Velvet looks more like dust, usually > golden in color. Your pictures do not show anything that looks like it's > above the level of the skin but only you could tell this for certain by > looking at the fish from different angles. In either case, these parasites > would not form symmetrical patterns but would be randomly scattered around > the fish. > > If that oval shaped grayish area is symmetrical (on both sides of the > fish), > as you stated in your earlier post, then it's most certainly normal > symmetrical coloration of the fish. > > Do you know the actual species? Knowing that would allow you to look for > other photos of adult fish of the same species to see if they have similar > markings. Fry and Juvi fish almost never look like what they will grow up > to be... and this seems to be even more so in the catfish family. If > you do > not know exactly what species you bought, when buying a catfish > species, you > could find yourself with quite a surprise as it matures. Fortunately, with > the Corydoras species, you shouldn't find yourself with a GIANT fish > as I do > not know of any GIANT Corydoras that are commonly available in the pet > fish > industry... and the one that has the common name, Giant Corydoras, > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html> only grows to > around 5" so it's not really a true *GIANT*, when you consider that some > other catfish grow to 6 feet to 10 feet long... but when they are catching > wild fish, you never know what the net might pick up along with their > desired catch so there's always a chance of getting an unwanted GIANT fish > species or sometimes even a rare and very expensive species if the store > actually knew what they were selling. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of noura_taweel > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 8:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming > High!) > > Here are some photos of my Corys, I described the spots in my post below. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list> > If the link breaks, check the album "Corys" in the photo section, you'll > find it easily when you choose "last modified". > > What do you see? A coloration or a disease? > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> > wrote: > > > > Can you post a photo of one of them with this spot? It sounds like it > might be a protozoan I had on my pandas. Photo will help. > > > > Byron. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Noura" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate carefully, > it's normal in all three corys. > > > But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the > three > developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, there's > nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a white spot > instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the corys have this > spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, while the third has > his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are symmetric and spread > equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this a coloration or should I > be worried? > > > The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I > don't know > their age. > > > > > > Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46178	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally

Ya, that always works for me Amber! Coffee first! Lenny even has me on a "cup check" before I trying doing or saying anything! Can't get mad at him though, because it works! He can always tell when I'm a cup short! <G> Bill --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Parameters...finally > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 11:09 AM > Oops, Lenny said 4-6 weeks, not 3-4 > weeks, sorry. Guess I need to finish > my coffee, LOL. > > Amber > > amejia1976 wrote: > > > > Lenny, > > > > I was waiting to get the kH/gH test too before moving > too soon and > > loosing more fish. > > > > As for moving the entire filter system to the 75g i am > not sure how to > > best do this. The 10g has a HOB filter and type > specific media whereas > > the 75g has the wet/dry filter with the overflow box, > prefilter unit, > > Purigen, felt padding, bioballs, postfilter and pump. > How do you > > suggest I accomplish this moving of the filter system > from the 10g? Do > > I just move the filter media from the HOB? Where would > it go in the > > wet/dry? > > > > Thank you bunches for your guidance. > > > > Alex > > Semper Fi > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny > V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > Wow... I thought you had made the switch a long > time ago. I remember > > giving > > > directions on doing partial exchanges of water > between the two tanks > > until > > > the waters were nearly identical and then moving > the fish. > > > > > > In either case, your water is similar enough to > make the move... > > except you > > > didn't list the water temperature. If that is the > same in both > > tanks, then > > > it should be safe to make the quick move. (oops.. > I see down near the > > > bottom that you list both at 78F... HINT: when > listing parameters, > > it's best > > > to list temperature with the rest of them) > > > > > > The only question I do have is do you have any > fish in the 75G right > > now? > > > What have you been doing to keep the 75G > cycled... if anything? If you > > > haven't been keeping it fishless cycled, then you > should also move a > > > proportionate part of the filter media from the > 10G to the 75G when > > you move > > > some of the fish... or if you are moving all of > the fish, then move the > > > entire filter from the 10G to the 75G and leave > it running for 4-6 weeks > > > while the uncycled filter that is currently on > the 75G gets cycled. > > OR... > > > if the filter on the 75G can handle all of the > media from the 10G's > > filter, > > > just put all of the media into the reservoir of > the 75G's filter and > > that > > > should suffice. Still check your ammonia/nitrites > over the next week > > or two > > > to make sure you do not get a large spike in > either. > > > > > > Oops.. I should have read all of your email > before starting my > > reply.. but > > > on long posts, I usually reply paragraph by > paragraph for > > simplicity. I see > > > you do have some fish in the 75G so if I was you, > I would move all > > of the > > > fish (unless you were planning on keeping some in > the 10G) and the > > entire > > > filter system to the 75G and then just monitor > for any possibly > > mini-cycle > > > issues. > > > > > > As far as your heater issue.. if your heater is > submersible, I find that > > > once it's in the tank and set and calibrated and > keeping the correct > > > temperature, then it's best to put it down > horizontal at the bottom > > behind > > > plants/decorations so you do not have the ugly > heater even showing. > > You can > > > run the cord down one of the back corners. > > > > > > For folks setting up new tanks or breaking down a > tank for > > re-setting up, I > > > strongly suggest adding these types of clips > > > http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317 > > > <http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317> > to > > both rear > > > corners to hold airlines and cords out of sight. > There are various > > sizes, > > > colors (I use black) and attachment methods but I > always remove the > > double > > > stick tape stuff and just use aquarium silicone > or 2-part epoxy to > > glue them > > > into the corners. Obviously, ignore any of the > clips that require > > nailing > > > or screwing in since they would not work. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of amejia1976 > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:53 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water > Parameters...finally > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > So I finally got the gH and kH test. Below are my > test results: > > > > > > 10g US > > > pH 7.6 > > > Ammo 0ppm > > > Nitri 0ppm > > > Nitra 20ppm > > > gH 8 > > > kH 6 > > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have > been identical every week > > > since 1/5/10 for 10g tank > > > > > > 75g US > > > pH 7.6 > > > Ammo 0ppm > > > Nitri 0ppm > > > Nitra 5ppm > > > gH 9 > > > kH 6 > > > > > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have > been similar since 12/8/09 > > > with the exeption of Nitrates which were at 10ppm > but are now @ 5ppm > > - this > > > could be due to a 30% pwc last week. All tests > were done weekly > > since 12/8/9 > > > > > > I have not yet done a water baseline test but > will have one by Monday. > > > > > > That said, will I be able to move Emerald Corys, > Zebra Danios, > > Chinese Algea > > > Eater, Neon Tetras from the 10g to the 75g or > should I hold off > > until ALL > > > parameters match and/or give it more time to run > the tests again? I > > would be > > > moving each species a week apart to give time for > the tank to adjust. > > > > > > The 75g has 2 pieces of driftwood, 7 sets of fake > (plastic) plants, 300w > > > heater, 9 guppies (5 weeks old), and 7 ghost > shrimp. > > > > > > Both tanks are set to 78 degrees F > > > > > > ohhh, and to any newbies such as me - when doing > pwc's MAKE SURE TO > > TURN OFF > > > AND DISCONNECT ANY HEATERS OR THEY WILL BLOW - I > personally vouch > > for this. > > > > > > Alex > > > Semper Fi > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46179	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Guppy with Dropsy...

I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on my fish, but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was hanging out near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do anything. Is this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what and how to administer? I also don't have a quarantine tank. I tested the water tonight: NO2- = <0.3 NH3 = 0 NO3- = 80 PH = 7.0 GH = 7 KH = 1 The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". Obviously he died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when vacuuming the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's buried under some rocks. Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra Danios (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. Thanks for your help, Catherine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46180	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

OK. If that's what she has, then here's PlanetCatfish's profile on them with lots of pics. http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51 Clicking on each thumbnail image will expand it to full size... or starting with the first image here... http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=129, you can click on next and go through each one full size. The first image is a good size view pic and there is a lighter colored band that runs the full length of the fish starting right behind the head (near the front of the dorsal fin) and runs to the tail. This new coloration she is seeing could be the start of this band forming. The second image shows some sparkling that apparently is natural to this species of Corydoras and that sparkling is a little what Velvet might looks like if we didn't know it was actually the flash shining off of the fish. The fifth image here, http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=2127, shows a fish with a similar coloration to what Noura is possibly seeing in her fish, except for the red belly which the photographer warns is a dye injected fish to create this red belly look but the top lighter color starting under the dorsal fin is very similar to what I can see in Noura's fish. Then there's this pic... http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8699 ... a face only a mother could love... and then the mother would have to be blind. ;-) But then this one makes them look all cute again. :-D http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8808 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 9:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!) She said they were Aeneus cory's I thought, but this is going from memory ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Are you talking about that large oval shaped grayish area right next > to/below the dorsal fin? > > That's certainly not a parasite like Ich or Velvet, both of which show > up as looking like the fish was sprinkled with something that is > showing up on top of the skin. Ich looks like salt. Velvet looks more > like dust, usually golden in color. Your pictures do not show anything > that looks like it's above the level of the skin but only you could > tell this for certain by looking at the fish from different angles. In > either case, these parasites would not form symmetrical patterns but > would be randomly scattered around the fish. > > If that oval shaped grayish area is symmetrical (on both sides of the > fish), as you stated in your earlier post, then it's most certainly > normal symmetrical coloration of the fish. > > Do you know the actual species? Knowing that would allow you to look > for other photos of adult fish of the same species to see if they have > similar markings. Fry and Juvi fish almost never look like what they > will grow up to be... and this seems to be even more so in the catfish > family. If you do not know exactly what species you bought, when > buying a catfish species, you could find yourself with quite a > surprise as it matures. Fortunately, with the Corydoras species, you > shouldn't find yourself with a GIANT fish as I do not know of any > GIANT Corydoras that are commonly available in the pet fish > industry... and the one that has the common name, Giant Corydoras, > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html> only > grows to around 5" so it's not really a true *GIANT*, when you > consider that some other catfish grow to 6 feet to 10 feet long... but > when they are catching wild fish, you never know what the net might > pick up along with their desired catch so there's always a chance of > getting an unwanted GIANT fish species or sometimes even a rare and > very expensive species if the store actually knew what they were selling. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of noura_taweel > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 8:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys > aiming > High!) > > Here are some photos of my Corys, I described the spots in my post below. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/ > list> If the link breaks, check the album "Corys" in the photo > section, you'll find it easily when you choose "last modified". > > What do you see? A coloration or a disease? > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> > wrote: > > > > Can you post a photo of one of them with this spot? It sounds like > > it > might be a protozoan I had on my pandas. Photo will help. > > > > Byron. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Noura" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate > > > carefully, > it's normal in all three corys. > > > But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the > three > developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, > there's nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a > white spot instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the > corys have this spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, > while the third has his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are > symmetric and spread equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this > a coloration or should I be worried? > > > The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I > don't know > their age. > > > > > > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46181	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally

Will the HOB simply hang on the 75G? If not, then take the filter media out of the 10G's filter and put it into the beginning of the water flow going into the new filter so that all or most of the water has to flow through the 10G's filter media. Also, squeezing the 10G's filter media into this same intake stream would transfer some of the N-Bacteria into the rest of the filter media of the 75G's filter media. Since you are increasing the water volume by around 700%, you shouldn't really see any kind of measurable ammonia/nitrite issues before the N-bacteria have a chance to grow full sized colonies and then, after several weeks, you can remove the 10G's filter media... or better yet, leave it in your bigger filter so that it's always cycled and ready in case you need to set up the 10G as a quarantine or hospital tank. Then you would just have to move the media back into the HOB and have a fully cycled filter for the 10G tank. I have extra media in all of my big filters for this reason. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 9:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Parameters...finally Lenny, I was waiting to get the kH/gH test too before moving too soon and loosing more fish. As for moving the entire filter system to the 75g i am not sure how to best do this. The 10g has a HOB filter and type specific media whereas the 75g has the wet/dry filter with the overflow box, prefilter unit, Purigen, felt padding, bioballs, postfilter and pump. How do you suggest I accomplish this moving of the filter system from the 10g? Do I just move the filter media from the HOB? Where would it go in the wet/dry? Thank you bunches for your guidance. Alex Semper Fi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Wow... I thought you had made the switch a long time ago. I remember > giving directions on doing partial exchanges of water between the two > tanks until the waters were nearly identical and then moving the fish. > > In either case, your water is similar enough to make the move... > except you didn't list the water temperature. If that is the same in > both tanks, then it should be safe to make the quick move. (oops.. I > see down near the bottom that you list both at 78F... HINT: when > listing parameters, it's best to list temperature with the rest of > them) > > The only question I do have is do you have any fish in the 75G right now? > What have you been doing to keep the 75G cycled... if anything? If > you haven't been keeping it fishless cycled, then you should also move > a proportionate part of the filter media from the 10G to the 75G when > you move some of the fish... or if you are moving all of the fish, > then move the entire filter from the 10G to the 75G and leave it > running for 4-6 weeks while the uncycled filter that is currently on the 75G gets cycled. OR... > if the filter on the 75G can handle all of the media from the 10G's > filter, just put all of the media into the reservoir of the 75G's > filter and that should suffice. Still check your ammonia/nitrites > over the next week or two to make sure you do not get a large spike in either. > > Oops.. I should have read all of your email before starting my reply.. > but on long posts, I usually reply paragraph by paragraph for > simplicity. I see you do have some fish in the 75G so if I was you, I > would move all of the fish (unless you were planning on keeping some > in the 10G) and the entire filter system to the 75G and then just > monitor for any possibly mini-cycle issues. > > As far as your heater issue.. if your heater is submersible, I find > that once it's in the tank and set and calibrated and keeping the > correct temperature, then it's best to put it down horizontal at the > bottom behind plants/decorations so you do not have the ugly heater > even showing. You can run the cord down one of the back corners. > > For folks setting up new tanks or breaking down a tank for re-setting > up, I strongly suggest adding these types of clips > http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032317 to both > rear corners to hold airlines and cords out of sight. There are > various sizes, colors (I use black) and attachment methods but I > always remove the double stick tape stuff and just use aquarium > silicone or 2-part epoxy to glue them into the corners. Obviously, > ignore any of the clips that require nailing or screwing in since they > would not work. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of amejia1976 > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:53 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Water Parameters...finally > > Hello everyone, > > So I finally got the gH and kH test. Below are my test results: > > 10g US > pH 7.6 > Ammo 0ppm > Nitri 0ppm > Nitra 20ppm > gH 8 > kH 6 > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been identical every > week since 1/5/10 for 10g tank > > 75g US > pH 7.6 > Ammo 0ppm > Nitri 0ppm > Nitra 5ppm > gH 9 > kH 6 > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been similar since > 12/8/09 with the exeption of Nitrates which were at 10ppm but are now > @ 5ppm - this could be due to a 30% pwc last week. All tests were done > weekly since 12/8/9 > > I have not yet done a water baseline test but will have one by Monday. > > That said, will I be able to move Emerald Corys, Zebra Danios, Chinese > Algea Eater, Neon Tetras from the 10g to the 75g or should I hold off > until ALL parameters match and/or give it more time to run the tests > again? I would be moving each species a week apart to give time for the tank to adjust. > > The 75g has 2 pieces of driftwood, 7 sets of fake (plastic) plants, > 300w heater, 9 guppies (5 weeks old), and 7 ghost shrimp. > > Both tanks are set to 78 degrees F > > ohhh, and to any newbies such as me - when doing pwc's MAKE SURE TO > TURN OFF AND DISCONNECT ANY HEATERS OR THEY WILL BLOW - I personally vouch for this. > > Alex > Semper Fi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46182	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. The bad news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little pine cone. Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29.jpg This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back half of the fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v=0 Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top view is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning better than any other view. Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which causes the fish to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. The last I read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to what started the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with bacterial having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully treating early cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental goldfish, Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a series of 25% PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without changing the other water parameters too much, too fast. Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing fish, which could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to put out more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how fast fish can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't eat it, then it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause your nitrates to rise. Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to treat an entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle Brand makes an antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed the affected fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would give you a way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also give the sick fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. While the other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first instinct is that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. that's how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for removing a sick fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for it's life which just creates more stress and more health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on my fish, but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was hanging out near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do anything. Is this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what and how to administer? I also don't have a quarantine tank. I tested the water tonight: NO2- = <0.3 NH3 = 0 NO3- = 80 PH = 7.0 GH = 7 KH = 1 The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". Obviously he died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when vacuuming the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's buried under some rocks. Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra Danios (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. Thanks for your help, Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46183	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

Thanks Lenny! He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating net and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. Thanks so much, Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. The bad > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, when > looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little pine cone. > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29.jpg > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back half of the > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v=0 > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top view is > preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning better than any other > view. > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which causes the fish > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. The last I > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to what started > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with bacterial > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully treating early > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental goldfish, > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a series of 25% > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without changing the > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing fish, which > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to put out > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how fast fish > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't eat it, then > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause your > nitrates to rise. > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to treat an > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle Brand makes an > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed the affected > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would give you a > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also give the sick > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. While the > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first instinct is > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. that's > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for removing a sick > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for it's life > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on my fish, > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was hanging out > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do anything. Is > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what and how to > administer? > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > I tested the water tonight: > > NO2- = <0.3 > NH3 = 0 > NO3- = 80 > PH = 7.0 > GH = 7 > KH = 1 > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". Obviously he > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when vacuuming > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's buried under > some rocks. > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra Danios > (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > Thanks for your help, > Catherine > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46184	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the tank to hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're mentioning PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. Print the pages as the local stores will usually match the online prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this would be big savings but lately they are much closer in price. Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure they sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax and Lee's aquarium supplies. Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued but here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm_mmc=CSEMGoo glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-8381-DE11-B7F3 -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - Penn Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart might match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only $4.97. It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't have an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect an injured or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The breeder net can be set up in a minute. I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a sort of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has her tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. Let the male suffer being in the breeder net in those instances. LOL It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want to save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put them in the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... Thanks Lenny! He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating net and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. Thanks so much, Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. The bad > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, when > looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little pine cone. > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29.jpg > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back half of the > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v=0 > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top view is > preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning better than any other > view. > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which causes the fish > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. The last I > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to what started > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with bacterial > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully treating early > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental goldfish, > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a series of 25% > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without changing the > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing fish, which > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to put out > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how fast fish > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't eat it, then > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause your > nitrates to rise. > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to treat an > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle Brand makes an > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed the affected > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would give you a > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also give the sick > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. While the > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first instinct is > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. that's > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for removing a sick > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for it's life > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on my fish, > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was hanging out > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do anything. Is > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what and how to > administer? > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > I tested the water tonight: > > NO2- = <0.3 > NH3 = 0 > NO3- = 80 > PH = 7.0 > GH = 7 > KH = 1 > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". Obviously he > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when vacuuming > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's buried under > some rocks. > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra Danios > (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > Thanks for your help, > Catherine > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46185	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

Well I can see you're not a Cory fan ;) LOL My albino Aeneus cory's definitely have a "shimmer" to their scales and they will shine when they move around under the lighting. As far as "cute faces" this is my all time favorite, I may just have to invest in some Botia Dario's some day ;) LOL http://www.loaches.com/species-index/photos/b/Botia_dario_06.jpg/view Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. If that's what she has, then here's PlanetCatfish's profile on them > with lots of pics. > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51> > > Clicking on each thumbnail image will expand it to full size... or > starting > with the first image here... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=129, > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=129,> you can > click > on next and go through each one full size. The first image is a good size > view pic and there is a lighter colored band that runs the full length of > the fish starting right behind the head (near the front of the dorsal fin) > and runs to the tail. This new coloration she is seeing could be the start > of this band forming. > > The second image shows some sparkling that apparently is natural to this > species of Corydoras and that sparkling is a little what Velvet might > looks > like if we didn't know it was actually the flash shining off of the fish. > > The fifth image here, > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=2127, > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=2127,> shows > a fish > with a similar coloration to what Noura is possibly seeing in her fish, > except for the red belly which the photographer warns is a dye > injected fish > to create this red belly look but the top lighter color starting under the > dorsal fin is very similar to what I can see in Noura's fish. > > Then there's this pic... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8699 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8699> ... a > face only > a mother could love... and then the mother would have to be blind. ;-) > > But then this one makes them look all cute again. :-D > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8808 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8808> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 9:34 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys > aiming High!) > > She said they were Aeneus cory's I thought, but this is going from > memory ;) > LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Are you talking about that large oval shaped grayish area right next > > to/below the dorsal fin? > > > > That's certainly not a parasite like Ich or Velvet, both of which show > > up as looking like the fish was sprinkled with something that is > > showing up on top of the skin. Ich looks like salt. Velvet looks more > > like dust, usually golden in color. Your pictures do not show anything > > that looks like it's above the level of the skin but only you could > > tell this for certain by looking at the fish from different angles. In > > either case, these parasites would not form symmetrical patterns but > > would be randomly scattered around the fish. > > > > If that oval shaped grayish area is symmetrical (on both sides of the > > fish), as you stated in your earlier post, then it's most certainly > > normal symmetrical coloration of the fish. > > > > Do you know the actual species? Knowing that would allow you to look > > for other photos of adult fish of the same species to see if they have > > similar markings. Fry and Juvi fish almost never look like what they > > will grow up to be... and this seems to be even more so in the catfish > > family. If you do not know exactly what species you bought, when > > buying a catfish species, you could find yourself with quite a > > surprise as it matures. Fortunately, with the Corydoras species, you > > shouldn't find yourself with a GIANT fish as I do not know of any > > GIANT Corydoras that are commonly available in the pet fish > > industry... and the one that has the common name, Giant Corydoras, > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html> > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Corydoras%20barbatus.html>> only > > grows to around 5" so it's not really a true *GIANT*, when you > > consider that some other catfish grow to 6 feet to 10 feet long... but > > when they are catching wild fish, you never know what the net might > > pick up along with their desired catch so there's always a chance of > > getting an unwanted GIANT fish species or sometimes even a rare and > > very expensive species if the store actually knew what they were > selling. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of noura_taweel > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 8:17 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys > > aiming > > High!) > > > > Here are some photos of my Corys, I described the spots in my post > below. > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/l > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/l> > > ist > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/> > > list> If the link breaks, check the album "Corys" in the photo > > section, you'll find it easily when you choose "last modified". > > > > What do you see? A coloration or a disease? > > > > Noura > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Can you post a photo of one of them with this spot? It sounds like > > > it > > might be a protozoan I had on my pandas. Photo will help. > > > > > > Byron. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Noura" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate > > > > carefully, > > it's normal in all three corys. > > > > But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the > > three > > developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, > > there's nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a > > white spot instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the > > corys have this spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, > > while the third has his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are > > symmetric and spread equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this > > a coloration or should I be worried? > > > > The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I > > don't know > > their age. > > > > > > > > Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46186	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they didn't have breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. Gggrrrr. So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with the handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for Sunny. I will have to buy the medicated food online and hope he lives until it arrives. :( And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the "fish expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the guppy peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store about peas and dropsy!! Ridiculous. They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital tank do I need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in a big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him some antibiotic powder? Thanks... Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. It has > two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the tank to hold the > box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're mentioning PetsMart, here's > the items you are talking about. Print the pages as the local stores will > usually match the online prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this > would be big savings but lately they are much closer in price. > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure they sell them > in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax and Lee's aquarium supplies. > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued but here's > the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm_mmc=CSEMGoo > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-8381-DE11-B7F3 > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - Penn Plax > Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart might match the price > since it's on sale at Petco.com for only $4.97. > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't have an extra > tank.. even if only used short term to protect an injured or sick fish while > setting up a hospital tank. The breeder net can be set up in a minute. > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a sort of > time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has her tired out. No > point in further stressing the female fish. Let the male suffer being in > the breeder net in those instances. LOL > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want to save > some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put them in the breeder > net till they grow a little bigger. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > Thanks Lenny! > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure it's > dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating net and an > antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > Thanks so much, > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. The > bad > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, when > > looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little pine cone. > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29.jpg > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back half of > the > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v=0 > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top view is > > preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning better than any > other > > view. > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which causes the > fish > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. The > last I > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to what > started > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > bacterial > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully treating > early > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental > goldfish, > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a series > of 25% > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without changing > the > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing fish, > which > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to put > out > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how fast > fish > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't eat > it, then > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause your > > nitrates to rise. > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to treat > an > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle Brand > makes an > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed the > affected > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would give > you a > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also give > the sick > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. While > the > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first > instinct is > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. > that's > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for removing a > sick > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for it's > life > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on my > fish, > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was hanging > out > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do > anything. Is > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what and how > to > > administer? > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > NH3 = 0 > > NO3- = 80 > > PH = 7.0 > > GH = 7 > > KH = 1 > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". Obviously > he > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when > vacuuming > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's buried > under > > some rocks. > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra Danios > > (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > Thanks for your help, > > Catherine > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46187	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

Hey Lenny! Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? I vaguely remember reading something about that... Surely you'll know off the top of your head. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@...> wrote: > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they didn't have breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. Gggrrrr. > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with the handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for Sunny. I will have to buy the medicated food online and hope he lives until it arrives. :( > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the "fish expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the guppy peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store about peas and dropsy!! Ridiculous. > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital tank do I need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in a big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him some antibiotic powder? > > Thanks... > Catherine > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. It has > > two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the tank to hold the > > box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're mentioning PetsMart, here's > > the items you are talking about. Print the pages as the local stores will > > usually match the online prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this > > would be big savings but lately they are much closer in price. > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure they sell them > > in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax and Lee's aquarium supplies. > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued but here's > > the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm_mmc=CSEMGoo > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-8381-DE11-B7F3 > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - Penn Plax > > Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart might match the price > > since it's on sale at Petco.com for only $4.97. > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't have an extra > > tank.. even if only used short term to protect an injured or sick fish while > > setting up a hospital tank. The breeder net can be set up in a minute. > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a sort of > > time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has her tired out. No > > point in further stressing the female fish. Let the male suffer being in > > the breeder net in those instances. LOL > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want to save > > some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put them in the breeder > > net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure it's > > dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating net and an > > antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > Thanks so much, > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. The > > bad > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, when > > > looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little pine cone. > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29.jpg > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back half of > > the > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v=0 > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top view is > > > preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning better than any > > other > > > view. > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which causes the > > fish > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. The > > last I > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to what > > started > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > > bacterial > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully treating > > early > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental > > goldfish, > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a series > > of 25% > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without changing > > the > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing fish, > > which > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to put > > out > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how fast > > fish > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't eat > > it, then > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause your > > > nitrates to rise. > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to treat > > an > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle Brand > > makes an > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed the > > affected > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would give > > you a > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also give > > the sick > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. While > > the > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first > > instinct is > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. > > that's > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for removing a > > sick > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for it's > > life > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on my > > fish, > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was hanging > > out > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do > > anything. Is > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what and how > > to > > > administer? > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > NH3 = 0 > > > NO3- = 80 > > > PH = 7.0 > > > GH = 7 > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". Obviously > > he > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when > > vacuuming > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's buried > > under > > > some rocks. > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra Danios > > > (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46188	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/22/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

There's so much speculation about the use of Epsom salts and at one time was thought to be a cure... but it's not. It's mild enough that it can't really hurt to use it in conjunction with other more aggressive treatment but Epsom salts by itself is not going to cure dropsy, maybe just lessen the swelling a little. I guess Epsom salts would be comparable to using an ice pack to help bring down the swelling of a human's injury but if the swelling is caused by a bacterial infection, the ice might relieve some of the symptoms but only proper medication is going to help with the infection. Treating with Epsom Salts should be done in a separate tank/container and since Catherine said she didn't have this, I went with the net and medicated food.. since the fish was still eating. This article explains the use of Epsom salts. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html As far as using that 6" net, make sure you put something in the bottom of the net to keep it open so it doesn't close up. Depending on the shape of the net, something like a piece of gravel might work. You should have told the PetsMart (note that I always type PetsMart... as in K-Mart or Wal-Mart... not PetSmart... since they're not too smart.. lol) that he/she must have eaten a lot of peas since peas will help clear up constipation in fish... or in the case of the PetsMart employee, caused diarrhea of the mouth. I kept hoping Ray would show up in this thread also since he's a better medicine man than I am... although I do have VooDoo on my side down here in N'Awlins. ;-) In reading the Badman's article above, they do mention using Erythromycin in conjunction with the Epsom Salts so I'm sure the PetsMart probably has Erythromycin, usually by API and possibly from Mardel also. You don't need to purchase a whole lot to set up an H-tank. You can use a Sterilite type storage container from Big Lots or Walmart. I keep one of these on hand and store all my fish stuff in it until needed. If you have an air pump already, hen make one of these DIY corner filters if you don't have an extra filter laying around. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.html You could use your existing air pump and just put a splitter on it and run a second line to an air stone in the sponge filter or just shove the air line down the riser tube and the big bubbles actually work better than small bubbles to create lift/circulation through the sponge filter. You would need a heater though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... Hey Lenny! Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? I vaguely remember reading something about that... Surely you'll know off the top of your head. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@...> wrote: > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they didn't have breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. Gggrrrr. > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with the > handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for Sunny. I will > have to buy the medicated food online and hope he lives until it > arrives. :( > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the "fish expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the guppy peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store about peas and dropsy!! Ridiculous. > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital tank do I need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in a big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him some antibiotic powder? > > Thanks... > Catherine > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. > > It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the tank to > > hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're mentioning > > PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. Print the pages > > as the local stores will usually match the online prices. Online > > prices use to be a LOT less so this would be big savings but lately they are much closer in price. > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure they > > sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax and Lee's aquarium supplies. > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued but > > here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm_mmc > > =CSEMGoo > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-8381-D > > E11-B7F3 > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - Penn > > Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart might > > match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only $4.97. > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't have > > an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect an injured > > or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The breeder net can be set up in a minute. > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a sort > > of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has her > > tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. Let the > > male suffer being in the breeder net in those instances. LOL > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want to > > save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put them in > > the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure > > it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating net > > and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > Thanks so much, > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. > > > The > > bad > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, > > > when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little pine cone. > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29. > > jpg > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back > > > half of > > the > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v=0 > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top view > > > is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning better than > > > any > > other > > > view. > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which causes > > > the > > fish > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. > > > The > > last I > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to > > > what > > started > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > > bacterial > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully > > > treating > > early > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental > > goldfish, > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a > > > series > > of 25% > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without > > > changing > > the > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing fish, > > which > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to > > > put > > out > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how > > > fast > > fish > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't > > > eat > > it, then > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause > > > your nitrates to rise. > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to > > > treat > > an > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle Brand > > makes an > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed the > > affected > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would > > > give > > you a > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also > > > give > > the sick > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. > > > While > > the > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first > > instinct is > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. > > that's > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for removing > > > a > > sick > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for it's > > life > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on > > > my > > fish, > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was > > > hanging > > out > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do > > anything. Is > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what and > > > how > > to > > > administer? > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > NH3 = 0 > > > NO3- = 80 > > > PH = 7.0 > > > GH = 7 > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". > > > Obviously > > he > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when > > vacuuming > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's > > > buried > > under > > > some rocks. > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra Danios > > > (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , > > .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46189	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

Hi Lenny and Catherine, I've been following this thread and since it looked like you had a handle on this, I elected not to reply so Catherine could follow one person's advice and not get confused by two people offering advice. With advice already being given, coupled too with the observation that Catherine doesn't have a quarantine tank, any additional advice I could offer would be a moot point anyway since recommendations I would offer would require a separate tank. Since you guys are asking for more input though, any hope of further treatment for such a bacterial infection would require those antibiotics which are readily absorbed internally -- preferably in a hospital/quarantine tank -- not that this issue is contagious though. Best results (if not beyond help) would be had with the use of Kanamycin Sulfate (SeaChem's Kanaplex), Naladixic Acid (Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Nalagram) or Minocycline (Mardel's Maracyn II -- note: NOT plain Maracyn) with the temperature being slowly increased towards 90 o, or as close to it, even if it doesn't actually reach that. It should be needless to say that an airstone should be employed to ensure the most oxygen being available as being dissolved at this temperature. Such "cures" as peas and/or Epsom salt or best used against constipation, or in cases where it's still uncertain as to the cause of what would appear as a swim bladder issue, when in fact impaction of the intestine may bear pressure on the swim bladder which in turn might cause a fish not to be able to orient itself properly. If enough Epsom salt is enabled to directly enter the digestive system, it may help to act against the Dropsy, Pseudomonas bacteria and would help in a constipation issue but direct ingestion of Epsom salt is only realized when you can get the fish to swallow some grains of it. As can be seen from the above just any "antibiotic powder" will not address this issue, although with your source of PetsMart (or Petco, etc.) not carrying very much of these supplies anyway, as you mention, you may need to look elsewhere -- in a "real" full-service LFS -- to obtain the needed supplies -- and get better advice for future issues than what PetsMart offers. In my estimation, it's doubtful that Erythromycin would be effective in this case as for one thing, it is known not to be very absorbable internally. Quite often though, by the time one observes the manifestation of Dropsy as scales standing away from the body, much damage has already been done to the kidney's, in fact they may well even be shutting down at this stage so it should be expected that any treatment may not be effective (depending upon how advanced this is), but it's always worth a try if the medications are already on hand to administer. As not only are the nitrates somewhat elevated, but also are the nitrites to some extent, it could appear when keeping in mind that another Guppy has already been lost (possibly due to Dropsy, or?) there is a slight ongoing water issue here maybe resulting from less than ideal conditions of the gravel where excess waste and uneaten food tends to accumulate when not deep-vacuumed -- promoting the conditions for related Aeromonas and Pseudomonas bacteria to thrive in anaerobic conditions. I would suggest taking a more aggressive approach of deep cleaning the gravel if this regimen is not already in place, in efforts to prevent further outbreaks of Dropsy. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46190	From: noura_taweel	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

Hi Lenny, and thank you! Mine are Corydoras Aeneus, but none of the photos are similar to the coloration I see, or close to it, and now after about three days of observing them, it seems like it's not symmetrical anymore in two of the three corys. And it's more "white" on one than the other two, with a tiny wound-like hole, just as if the skin isn't all in the same level, I guess someone is nipping on him. The spots are not elevated at all. It's not ich or velvet, that's for sure, and the scales are clearly visible, not covered with anything. I just saw the Guppies nipping on the white spot of the cory when it was sitting still for a moment although it doesn't apear wounded or scratched, and the cory is active. Do you advise taking the corys to an isolation tank to prevent the guppies from wounding them? Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. If that's what she has, then here's PlanetCatfish's profile on them > with lots of pics. > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51 > > Clicking on each thumbnail image will expand it to full size... or starting > with the first image here... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=129, you can click > on next and go through each one full size. The first image is a good size > view pic and there is a lighter colored band that runs the full length of > the fish starting right behind the head (near the front of the dorsal fin) > and runs to the tail. This new coloration she is seeing could be the start > of this band forming. > > The second image shows some sparkling that apparently is natural to this > species of Corydoras and that sparkling is a little what Velvet might looks > like if we didn't know it was actually the flash shining off of the fish. > > The fifth image here, > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=2127, shows a fish > with a similar coloration to what Noura is possibly seeing in her fish, > except for the red belly which the photographer warns is a dye injected fish > to create this red belly look but the top lighter color starting under the > dorsal fin is very similar to what I can see in Noura's fish. > > Then there's this pic... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8699 ... a face only > a mother could love... and then the mother would have to be blind. ;-) > > But then this one makes them look all cute again. :-D > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8808 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46191	From: noura_taweel	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

Very cute, Amber! It reminds me how Clown Loaches take really weird positions, laying on their side, or updown for long periods of time. Maybe you should invest in these if you have enough room for them (100+ gallons), beautiful babyfaces too, right Lenny? Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Well I can see you're not a Cory fan ;) LOL > My albino Aeneus cory's definitely have a "shimmer" to their scales and > they will shine when they move around under the lighting. > As far as "cute faces" this is my all time favorite, I may just have to > invest in some Botia Dario's some day ;) LOL > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/photos/b/Botia_dario_06.jpg/view > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK. If that's what she has, then here's PlanetCatfish's profile on them > > with lots of pics. > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51 > > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51> > > > > Clicking on each thumbnail image will expand it to full size... or

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46192	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Ram fry question for Ray

Hi Ray - The ram babies are doing great. Eating well, growing well, and I don't appear to be losing many (any)...eek! I am not sure how to proceed about their temperature. It is 84 now, but I know at some point I need to decrease it. Can you tell me when and how to lower it? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46193	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

The "blotches" in your photos are somewhat different from those I was thinking of when I mentioned it might be protozoan. But I am not of the opinion that this is natural. You mentioned it was tan before and is now whitish, that is not normal. And none of the fish in the Planet Catfish photos have anything remotely similar to your fish. I would keep close observation on these, and I would also try to find someone with experience in fish diesease to have a look at them (live) if that is possible. Some might be able to identify whatever it is from photos, I am not at all knowledgeable in disease. The blotches I encountered appeared more like growths under the skin, there was slight but very little raising of the skin, just a cream-coloured patch that expanded sometimes quickly, sometimes hardly at all. In most of them it was along the dorsal ridge next to the dorsal fin, in one it appeared on the caudal peduncle, in another on the head. This over a period of 11 months. Some store people suggested it was the "neon tetra disease" and indeed cardinals and rummynose tetras with this disease in the stores did appear very similar. I believe it was introduced into my tank from cardinals. I lost sevferal of them along the way, but then it appeared in the corydoras. Parasitic and bacteria remedies appeared to have an effect at stopping the spread, though the infected fish (usually just one or two at a time) died, but within a couple months it would return. In the end it was (hopefully) stopped by treating the tank with quinine, after an aquatics specialist examined photos and indicated it was protozoan. So far (3 months) it has not reappeared. I'm not suggesting this is what your corys have. I would just monitor them closely. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Here are some photos of my Corys, I described the spots in my post below. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list > If the link breaks, check the album "Corys" in the photo section, you'll find it easily when you choose "last modified". > > What do you see? A coloration or a disease? > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > Can you post a photo of one of them with this spot? It sounds like it might be a protozoan I had on my pandas. Photo will help. > > > > Byron. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate carefully, it's normal in all three corys. > > > But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the three developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, there's nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a white spot instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the corys have this spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, while the third has his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are symmetric and spread equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this a coloration or should I be worried? > > > The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I don't know their age. > > > > > > Noura > > > äæÑÇ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46194	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry question for Ray

Lainey, Don't be too concerned about lowering the temperature. Rams PREFER it up in that range. You may want to lower it to 82 o in about a month if it makes YOU happy, but that's not necessary despite popular notions that they do well in more "normal" tropical temperatures even of 76 o -- 78 o. Glad to hear they're all doing well. Can you fill us in more about what's happening with them? I'm sure many are interested in just what you've decided as their light duration and how many times a day you're feeding them. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46195	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). This shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad tank, but he uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant babies up out of the water, but let the roots fall into the top of the tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-angel-tank.html Amber William M wrote: > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have > some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after > fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high > end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow > out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with > the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also > need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > Google - > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set up a > > Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > read > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46196	From: Noura	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

So far I can see that "my" blotches are "behaving" the same as "yours" :) except that they don't appear raised right now, not even slightly, but they are spreading.. Perhaps it's a change in color as Lenny referred, starting by spots and ending by covering the whole body. I wonder if I should isolate them as long as it may be contageous in case of parasite. But I don't have a ready hospital tank right now. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: amphibian_ca To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!) The "blotches" in your photos are somewhat different from those I was thinking of when I mentioned it might be protozoan. But I am not of the opinion that this is natural. You mentioned it was tan before and is now whitish, that is not normal. And none of the fish in the Planet Catfish photos have anything remotely similar to your fish. I would keep close observation on these, and I would also try to find someone with experience in fish diesease to have a look at them (live) if that is possible. Some might be able to identify whatever it is from photos, I am not at all knowledgeable in disease. The blotches I encountered appeared more like growths under the skin, there was slight but very little raising of the skin, just a cream-coloured patch that expanded sometimes quickly, sometimes hardly at all. In most of them it was along the dorsal ridge next to the dorsal fin, in one it appeared on the caudal peduncle, in another on the head. This over a period of 11 months. Some store people suggested it was the "neon tetra disease" and indeed cardinals and rummynose tetras with this disease in the stores did appear very similar. I believe it was introduced into my tank from cardinals. I lost sevferal of them along the way, but then it appeared in the corydoras. Parasitic and bacteria remedies appeared to have an effect at stopping the spread, though the infected fish (usually just one or two at a time) died, but within a couple months it would return. In the end it was (hopefully) stopped by treating the tank with quinine, after an aquatics specialist examined photos and indicated it was protozoan. So far (3 months) it has not reappeared. I'm not suggesting this is what your corys have. I would just monitor them closely. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "noura_taweel" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Here are some photos of my Corys, I described the spots in my post below. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list > If the link breaks, check the album "Corys" in the photo section, you'll find it easily when you choose "last modified". > > What do you see? A coloration or a disease? > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > Can you post a photo of one of them with this spot? It sounds like it might be a protozoan I had on my pandas. Photo will help. > > > > Byron. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for all your replies. I watched the breathing rate carefully, it's normal in all three corys. > > > But there's another issue that I would like to ask you about, the three developed a white spot on their backs over the passing 2-4 weeks, there's nothing cottony or injured, it's more like a coloration, a white spot instead of the tan colour that existed before, two of the corys have this spot on the back between the head and the dorsal fin, while the third has his spot right under the dorsal fin. The spots are symmetric and spread equally on both sides of the fish's back. Is this a coloration or should I be worried? > > > The corys are 1 1/4" and I got them about 4 months ago. But I don't know their age. > > > > > > Noura > > > ???C > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46197	From: Noura	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry question for Ray

Lainey, congratulations for your success so far. I'm wondering if the 10 gallon where the fry are is planted? Because that's what appears from the pictures, all I can see was plants and no fry :) I expected a bare-bottom tank. If it is planted, how could you observe the fry and clear the debris out of the sand or gravel? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry question for Ray Lainey, Don't be too concerned about lowering the temperature. Rams PREFER it up in that range. You may want to lower it to 82 o in about a month if it makes YOU happy, but that's not necessary despite popular notions that they do well in more "normal" tropical temperatures even of 76 o -- 78 o. Glad to hear they're all doing well. Can you fill us in more about what's happening with them? I'm sure many are interested in just what you've decided as their light duration and how many times a day you're feeding them. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46198	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

See if you can get closer up photos and as detailed as possible. I know it's not an easy task with some fish but keep trying. Maybe someone will see something they recognize. Try to take pictures of both sides since your other pictures all showed the same side. Sometimes, putting a sinking pellet type food right next to the front glass so the fish comes over and holds still while it's eating will give you a good close up shot. Using the macro setting on your camera, if you have this setting, will also help. If you don't have a macro setting, then most cameras will have a minimum distance that you must be from the subject to be in focus. As far as the guppies nipping on it when it's sitting still, I don't think that's unusual as fish will often nip at rocks, decorations, etc... thinking something might be food and a fish that is sitting still on the bottom would be treated the same way. My goldfish regularly check my pleco out to see if it's food and would also check out my Mystery Snails when I had them. Of course, possibly the guppies have better sight than we do and see something moving like some kind of worm type parasite but most of the external parasites that I know of are usually visible to the human eye, although I suppose they could start off smaller and then we don't see them till they become visible. I don't think I would remove this fish to quarantine just yet but keep an eye on it. Not all fish have exactly symmetrical patterns so it could still be simply normal coloration. If none of those photos looked like your fish, I'm wondering if you really have C. aeneus... or was it just that particular coloration that was different and you are certain of the fish's species? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of noura_taweel Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!) Hi Lenny, and thank you! Mine are Corydoras Aeneus, but none of the photos are similar to the coloration I see, or close to it, and now after about three days of observing them, it seems like it's not symmetrical anymore in two of the three corys. And it's more "white" on one than the other two, with a tiny wound-like hole, just as if the skin isn't all in the same level, I guess someone is nipping on him. The spots are not elevated at all. It's not ich or velvet, that's for sure, and the scales are clearly visible, not covered with anything. I just saw the Guppies nipping on the white spot of the cory when it was sitting still for a moment although it doesn't apear wounded or scratched, and the cory is active. Do you advise taking the corys to an isolation tank to prevent the guppies from wounding them? Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. If that's what she has, then here's PlanetCatfish's profile on > them with lots of pics. > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51 > > Clicking on each thumbnail image will expand it to full size... or > starting with the first image here... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=129, you can > click on next and go through each one full size. The first image is a > good size view pic and there is a lighter colored band that runs the > full length of the fish starting right behind the head (near the front > of the dorsal fin) and runs to the tail. This new coloration she is > seeing could be the start of this band forming. > > The second image shows some sparkling that apparently is natural to > this species of Corydoras and that sparkling is a little what Velvet > might looks like if we didn't know it was actually the flash shining off of the fish. > > The fifth image here, > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=2127, shows a > fish with a similar coloration to what Noura is possibly seeing in her > fish, except for the red belly which the photographer warns is a dye > injected fish to create this red belly look but the top lighter color > starting under the dorsal fin is very similar to what I can see in Noura's fish. > > Then there's this pic... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8699 ... a > face only a mother could love... and then the mother would have to be > blind. ;-) > > But then this one makes them look all cute again. :-D > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8808 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46199	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Substrate

Hello, What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is inpatiently waiting for your reply please! Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46200	From: Noura	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

I'll try taking closer pics tomorrow. Although the corys gave me a hard time while taking the photos I posted, they don't stop moving! and the macro needs super still objects! I'll empty my camera's memory card from the children's photos and fill it with cory photos! I hope that will make them happy :( Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!) See if you can get closer up photos and as detailed as possible. I know it's not an easy task with some fish but keep trying. Maybe someone will see something they recognize. Try to take pictures of both sides since your other pictures all showed the same side. Sometimes, putting a sinking pellet type food right next to the front glass so the fish comes over and holds still while it's eating will give you a good close up shot. Using the macro setting on your camera, if you have this setting, will also help. If you don't have a macro setting, then most cameras will have a minimum distance that you must be from the subject to be in focus. As far as the guppies nipping on it when it's sitting still, I don't think that's unusual as fish will often nip at rocks, decorations, etc... thinking something might be food and a fish that is sitting still on the bottom would be treated the same way. My goldfish regularly check my pleco out to see if it's food and would also check out my Mystery Snails when I had them. Of course, possibly the guppies have better sight than we do and see something moving like some kind of worm type parasite but most of the external parasites that I know of are usually visible to the human eye, although I suppose they could start off smaller and then we don't see them till they become visible. I don't think I would remove this fish to quarantine just yet but keep an eye on it. Not all fish have exactly symmetrical patterns so it could still be simply normal coloration. If none of those photos looked like your fish, I'm wondering if you really have C. aeneus... or was it just that particular coloration that was different and you are certain of the fish's species? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of noura_taweel Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!) Hi Lenny, and thank you! Mine are Corydoras Aeneus, but none of the photos are similar to the coloration I see, or close to it, and now after about three days of observing them, it seems like it's not symmetrical anymore in two of the three corys. And it's more "white" on one than the other two, with a tiny wound-like hole, just as if the skin isn't all in the same level, I guess someone is nipping on him. The spots are not elevated at all. It's not ich or velvet, that's for sure, and the scales are clearly visible, not covered with anything. I just saw the Guppies nipping on the white spot of the cory when it was sitting still for a moment although it doesn't apear wounded or scratched, and the cory is active. Do you advise taking the corys to an isolation tank to prevent the guppies from wounding them? Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. If that's what she has, then here's PlanetCatfish's profile on > them with lots of pics. > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51 > > Clicking on each thumbnail image will expand it to full size... or > starting with the first image here... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=129, you can > click on next and go through each one full size. The first image is a > good size view pic and there is a lighter colored band that runs the > full length of the fish starting right behind the head (near the front > of the dorsal fin) and runs to the tail. This new coloration she is > seeing could be the start of this band forming. > > The second image shows some sparkling that apparently is natural to > this species of Corydoras and that sparkling is a little what Velvet > might looks like if we didn't know it was actually the flash shining off of the fish. > > The fifth image here, > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=2127, shows a > fish with a similar coloration to what Noura is possibly seeing in her > fish, except for the red belly which the photographer warns is a dye > injected fish to create this red belly look but the top lighter color > starting under the dorsal fin is very similar to what I can see in Noura's fish. > > Then there's this pic... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8699 ... a > face only a mother could love... and then the mother would have to be > blind. ;-) > > But then this one makes them look all cute again. :-D > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8808 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46201	From: pam andress	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

That depends on what you want to do with plants and such. If you want live plants, then you will need to weigh them down or put them in pots if the gravel will not hold them in place. If you are going to use fake plants, then you may want enough so you don't see the base of them. I personally like at least 2 inches and usually go with 3 inches. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: greyclouds99@... Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:16:21 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate Hello, What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is inpatiently waiting for your reply please! Tristan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46202	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry question for Ray

Hi Noura - Thanks! I am going to respond to Ray's suggestion that I post more details about my ram fry tank but to answer your question, I loaded the tank up with floating plants, but there is nothing on the floor. There is, however, a bunch of mulm on the floor that came in with some of the plants, and I can see little buggy things living in there so I am leaving a bit of it for infusoria etc as food for the fry. I am vacuuming about half the stuff off the bottom each day. I was told that willow moss harbors lots of infusoria so I am using a good amount of that. I don't really see the fry eating the liquid diet all that well, and they struggle with the live baby brine, so I am guessing they must be feeding from the willow moss and mulm to some degree or maybe entirely. But the reason you can't see the fry is because in that picture, they're barely visible with the naked eye, a magnifying glass was needed there:) I had some baby guppies hatch today, and they are bigger than the nine day old ram babies! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 23, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Noura wrote: > Lainey, congratulations for your success so far. I'm wondering if > the 10 gallon where the fry are is planted? Because that's what > appears from the pictures, all I can see was plants and no fry :) I > expected a bare-bottom tank. > If it is planted, how could you observe the fry and clear the > debris out of the sand or gravel? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sevenspringss@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry question for Ray > > Lainey, Don't be too concerned about lowering the temperature. Rams > PREFER it up in that range. You may want to lower it to 82 o in > about a month if > it makes YOU happy, but that's not necessary despite popular > notions that > they do well in more "normal" tropical temperatures even of 76 o -- > 78 o. > Glad to hear they're all doing well. Can you fill us in more about > what's > happening with them? I'm sure many are interested in just what > you've decided > as their light duration and how many times a day you're feeding > them. Ray > </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46203	From: Noura	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry question for Ray

I can imagine what you mean when comparing the guppy fry and Ram fry. I once had Angelfish fry, and they didn't make it for more than 3 days, they spent all three days on the buttom tied all togeather to eachother and to the mulm with their tiny threads, and I kept separating them because I thought that was what kept them from being free swimmers. I think there's a photo of one of them somewhere in my computer, I took it from behind a magnifying glass, and it looked pretty good. I'll post it in the photo section when I find it. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry question for Ray Hi Noura - Thanks! I am going to respond to Ray's suggestion that I post more details about my ram fry tank but to answer your question, I loaded the tank up with floating plants, but there is nothing on the floor. There is, however, a bunch of mulm on the floor that came in with some of the plants, and I can see little buggy things living in there so I am leaving a bit of it for infusoria etc as food for the fry. I am vacuuming about half the stuff off the bottom each day. I was told that willow moss harbors lots of infusoria so I am using a good amount of that. I don't really see the fry eating the liquid diet all that well, and they struggle with the live baby brine, so I am guessing they must be feeding from the willow moss and mulm to some degree or maybe entirely. But the reason you can't see the fry is because in that picture, they're barely visible with the naked eye, a magnifying glass was needed there:) I had some baby guppies hatch today, and they are bigger than the nine day old ram babies! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 23, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Noura wrote: > Lainey, congratulations for your success so far. I'm wondering if > the 10 gallon where the fry are is planted? Because that's what > appears from the pictures, all I can see was plants and no fry :) I > expected a bare-bottom tank. > If it is planted, how could you observe the fry and clear the > debris out of the sand or gravel? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sevenspringss@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry question for Ray > > Lainey, Don't be too concerned about lowering the temperature. Rams > PREFER it up in that range. You may want to lower it to 82 o in > about a month if > it makes YOU happy, but that's not necessary despite popular > notions that > they do well in more "normal" tropical temperatures even of 76 o -- > 78 o. > Glad to hear they're all doing well. Can you fill us in more about > what's > happening with them? I'm sure many are interested in just what > you've decided > as their light duration and how many times a day you're feeding > them. Ray > </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((؛> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<؛((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

That's a seven page thread... where does the Aquaponics start... or do I have to read it all? I wanted to just save the Aquaponics page in my newly created Aquaponics Favorites folder. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). This shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad tank, but he uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant babies up out of the water, but let the roots fall into the top of the tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html Amber William M wrote: > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have > some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after > fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high > end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow > out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with > the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also > need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > Google - > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set > > up a Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > read > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46205	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

The first page just shows pictures of the egg crating I think, and later on he shows updated pictures of the growth, there's not much else to it. It was mostly an example of how someone can use the egg crating along with the glass hoods and still have a secure top on your tank and live plants growing on top ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That's a seven page thread... where does the Aquaponics start... or do I > have to read it all? I wanted to just save the Aquaponics page in my newly > created Aquaponics Favorites folder. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics > > Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). This > shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad tank, > but he > uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant babies up out > of the > water, but let the roots fall into the top of the tank. > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an> > gel-tank.html > > Amber > > William M wrote: > > > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have > > some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after > > fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high > > end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow > > out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with > > the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also > > need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > > Google - > > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > > looked at > > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set > > > up a Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > > read > > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46206	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

If you are using root plants, then you would probably need at least an inch. Don't go for much more unless you are planning lots of plants or the gravel will hold a lot of detritus which you will just have to vacuum up. I've even seen people add a divider across the tank so they can have a little deeper gravel in the back where they have their plants and then a thin layer in the front and the divider also keeps the roots from spreading into the thin gravel so you can fully vacuum the thin gravel area and leave the planted area alone, other than passing the siphon tube over the surface to pick up detritus on the surface by all of the plants. For non-planted tanks, they really need no more than 1/2" of substrate to cover the glass bottom, that way, it won't hold much detritus so it's a lot easier to vacuum and keep the water quality up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate Hello, What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is inpatiently waiting for your reply please! Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46207	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Well, the first page on that thread showed the egg crate on the bottom of the tank prior to adding gravel and the Walstad substrate. He said he used the egg crate around the outer areas of the bottom to keep the gravel in place and to hide the layers of Walstad substrate. Double check the link. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html You might be thinking of a different forum thread. I haven't ventured through the seven page forum thread since I was hoping you'd tell me which page. Guess I'll browse through it now. Oh wait.. I do see one picture on the first page, down near the bottom (4th pic from the bottom) which shows some egg crate along the back edge... the same pic that shows the pull chains for the lighting and the wiring to the lighting. The bottom pic also shows this but it's kind of washed out. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics The first page just shows pictures of the egg crating I think, and later on he shows updated pictures of the growth, there's not much else to it. It was mostly an example of how someone can use the egg crating along with the glass hoods and still have a secure top on your tank and live plants growing on top ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That's a seven page thread... where does the Aquaponics start... or do > I have to read it all? I wanted to just save the Aquaponics page in my > newly created Aquaponics Favorites folder. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics > > Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). > This shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad > tank, but he uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant > babies up out of the water, but let the roots fall into the top of the > tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html > Amber > > William M wrote: > > > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to > > have some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel > > (after fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from > > the high end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water > > does not flow out that end) and have a small pump with a hose > > connected to it with the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of > > course you will also need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > > Google - > > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > > looked at > > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set > > > up a Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us > > > would > > read > > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46208	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-angel-tank.html#post472198 or http://tinyurl.com/yl47pv5 It's not quite what I was picturing in my mind for my project, but it would be a good start and certainly cheaper and easier than a setup that requires a pump, tubing and special drainage features. I'd be concerned about my lamp, though, because the goldies seem to really enjoy splashing. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics That's a seven page thread... where does the Aquaponics start... or do I have to read it all? I wanted to just save the Aquaponics page in my newly created Aquaponics Favorites folder. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). This shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad tank, but he uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant babies up out of the water, but let the roots fall into the top of the tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html Amber William M wrote: > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have > some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after > fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high > end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow > out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with > the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also > need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > Google - > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set > > up a Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > read > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46209	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

Thanks for all the help! He's doing okay in the net - not eating much and staying near the surface though. I ordered the antibiotic food so hopefully I'll get it by Tuesday latest. I hope Sunny survives that long, and I hope he's not suffering. :( Poor little guy. In the meantime... I also think I may have too much gravel. Just read something that said I should have 1/4 inch max. Eeek. I have a couple inches at least. I thought I needed more so I could bury the plants that come in those pots. But maybe that's why my nitrates are too high, even tho I vacuum it probably collects too much debris. So I'm going to take everything out, take out most of the gravel, vacuum well, then put plants/ornaments back. I'll wait though till I get the meds and feed them to my guppy for a few days before I do the cleanup. So.... the plants in the "wool" & pots will just stick out? There's 3 of them in the forefront of tank (grass). Any suggestions on how to make them look pretty with less gravel? So much to learn still! I was doing good and now this. And I just have a 10 gallon with 6 little fish. Sheesh!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > There's so much speculation about the use of Epsom salts and at one time was > thought to be a cure... but it's not. It's mild enough that it can't really > hurt to use it in conjunction with other more aggressive treatment but Epsom > salts by itself is not going to cure dropsy, maybe just lessen the swelling > a little. > > I guess Epsom salts would be comparable to using an ice pack to help bring > down the swelling of a human's injury but if the swelling is caused by a > bacterial infection, the ice might relieve some of the symptoms but only > proper medication is going to help with the infection. > > Treating with Epsom Salts should be done in a separate tank/container and > since Catherine said she didn't have this, I went with the net and medicated > food.. since the fish was still eating. > > This article explains the use of Epsom salts. > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > As far as using that 6" net, make sure you put something in the bottom of > the net to keep it open so it doesn't close up. Depending on the shape of > the net, something like a piece of gravel might work. > > You should have told the PetsMart (note that I always type PetsMart... as in > K-Mart or Wal-Mart... not PetSmart... since they're not too smart.. lol) > that he/she must have eaten a lot of peas since peas will help clear up > constipation in fish... or in the case of the PetsMart employee, caused > diarrhea of the mouth. > > I kept hoping Ray would show up in this thread also since he's a better > medicine man than I am... although I do have VooDoo on my side down here in > N'Awlins. ;-) In reading the Badman's article above, they do mention using > Erythromycin in conjunction with the Epsom Salts so I'm sure the PetsMart > probably has Erythromycin, usually by API and possibly from Mardel also. > > You don't need to purchase a whole lot to set up an H-tank. You can use a > Sterilite type storage container from Big Lots or Walmart. I keep one of > these on hand and store all my fish stuff in it until needed. If you have > an air pump already, hen make one of these DIY corner filters if you don't > have an extra filter laying around. > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.html > You could use your existing air pump and just put a splitter on it and run a > second line to an air stone in the sponge filter or just shove the air line > down the riser tube and the big bubbles actually work better than small > bubbles to create lift/circulation through the sponge filter. > > You would need a heater though. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > Hey Lenny! > Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? > I vaguely remember reading something about that... > Surely you'll know off the top of your head. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@> > wrote: > > > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they didn't have > breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. I > called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. Gggrrrr. > > > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with the > > handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for Sunny. I will > > have to buy the medicated food online and hope he lives until it > > arrives. :( > > > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the "fish > expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the guppy peas > to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and suggested she > Google it. She said they were trained by the store about peas and dropsy!! > Ridiculous. > > > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital tank do I > need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in a big > bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him some > antibiotic powder? > > > > Thanks... > > Catherine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. > > > It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the tank to > > > hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're mentioning > > > PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. Print the pages > > > as the local stores will usually match the online prices. Online > > > prices use to be a LOT less so this would be big savings but lately they > are much closer in price. > > > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure they > > > sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax and Lee's > aquarium supplies. > > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued but > > > here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm_mmc > > > =CSEMGoo > > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-8381-D > > > E11-B7F3 > > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - Penn > > > Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart might > > > match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only $4.97. > > > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't have > > > an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect an injured > > > or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The breeder net can be > set up in a minute. > > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a sort > > > of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has her > > > tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. Let the > > > male suffer being in the breeder net in those instances. LOL > > > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want to > > > save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put them in > > > the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure > > > it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating net > > > and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > > > Thanks so much, > > > Catherine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. > > > > The > > > bad > > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, > > > > when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little pine > cone. > > > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29. > > > jpg > > > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back > > > > half of > > > the > > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v=0 > > > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top view > > > > is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning better than > > > > any > > > other > > > > view. > > > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which causes > > > > the > > > fish > > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. > > > > The > > > last I > > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to > > > > what > > > started > > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > > > bacterial > > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully > > > > treating > > > early > > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental > > > goldfish, > > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a > > > > series > > > of 25% > > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without > > > > changing > > > the > > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing fish, > > > which > > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to > > > > put > > > out > > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how > > > > fast > > > fish > > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't > > > > eat > > > it, then > > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause > > > > your nitrates to rise. > > > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to > > > > treat > > > an > > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle Brand > > > makes an > > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed the > > > affected > > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would > > > > give > > > you a > > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also > > > > give > > > the sick > > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. > > > > While > > > the > > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first > > > instinct is > > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. > > > that's > > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for removing > > > > a > > > sick > > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for it's > > > life > > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on > > > > my > > > fish, > > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was > > > > hanging > > > out > > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do > > > anything. Is > > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what and > > > > how > > > to > > > > administer? > > > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > > NH3 = 0 > > > > NO3- = 80 > > > > PH = 7.0 > > > > GH = 7 > > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". > > > > Obviously > > > he > > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when > > > vacuuming > > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's > > > > buried > > > under > > > > some rocks. > > > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra Danios > > > > (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , > > > .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > > re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , > .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46210	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

Funny, I just added this question in my post about my guppy with dropsy. I do think I have too much gravel and that's why my water isn't quite how I'd like it to be. After I take out most of it I'll put all plants in the back and keep the front clear. I may still have issues with the 3 potted grasses looking ugly tho. Maybe there's some sort of decorative hollow pot they could go in to hide the ugly plastic one they came in? If not I should invent it and get rich! :) No one steal my idea now, okay? Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > If you are using root plants, then you would probably need at least an inch. > Don't go for much more unless you are planning lots of plants or the gravel > will hold a lot of detritus which you will just have to vacuum up. I've > even seen people add a divider across the tank so they can have a little > deeper gravel in the back where they have their plants and then a thin layer > in the front and the divider also keeps the roots from spreading into the > thin gravel so you can fully vacuum the thin gravel area and leave the > planted area alone, other than passing the siphon tube over the surface to > pick up detritus on the surface by all of the plants. > > For non-planted tanks, they really need no more than 1/2" of substrate to > cover the glass bottom, that way, it won't hold much detritus so it's a lot > easier to vacuum and keep the water quality up. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 3:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > Hello, > What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel > "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > Tristan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Well, he has that shop light fixture hanging well over a foot above the tank so the splashing shouldn't be an issue... although I know mine gets me in the face sometimes at feeding time when I do open up the plexiglass cover. I think the egg crating looks to be a headache especially if you tried to move a plant. If one is going to have an open top tank like that, I'd probably go with maybe the egg crating hanging down in the water an inch and then use some other containers for the plants and just have them sitting on the submerged egg crating. The smaller square or round 1" to 1-1/2" high zip-loc food containers with lots of holes punched in them would work and maybe just using some pea gravel in the containers to hold the plants upright. Make sure you cut the egg crating so none of the *fingers* are sticking out and then sand any rough edges so the fish don't get scraped if swimming by the egg crating. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html#post472198 or http://tinyurl.com/yl47pv5 It's not quite what I was picturing in my mind for my project, but it would be a good start and certainly cheaper and easier than a setup that requires a pump, tubing and special drainage features. I'd be concerned about my lamp, though, because the goldies seem to really enjoy splashing. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics That's a seven page thread... where does the Aquaponics start... or do I have to read it all? I wanted to just save the Aquaponics page in my newly created Aquaponics Favorites folder. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). This shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad tank, but he uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant babies up out of the water, but let the roots fall into the top of the tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html Amber William M wrote: > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have > some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after > fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high > end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow > out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with > the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also > need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > Google - > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set > > up a Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > read > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46212	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

Well, I'm not sure who said 1/4" but for live plants, you would need at least an inch for most plants. If you are going to have a heavily planted tank, then it's OK to have more over the entire bottom but if you are only going to have a few plants, then I'd only go with the deeper gravel where the plants are located and then only have 1/4" to 1/2" of gravel in the non-planted areas. Before you start taking every thing apart, deal with your ill fish and worry about re-working the tank afterwards. You don't need to cause any environmental issues in the tank right now but when doing 25% PWC's, maybe twice a week or more right now, work your siphon tube down deep into the gravel and let it suck up until it's clear water, then move it to another spot, until the gavel is MUCH cleaner. You want the gravel very clean before removing any or it will cause a lot of detritus to mix into the water column. Once the gravel is very clean and you're not siphoning up much detritus, then you can look at removing some of it using a slotted spoon or spatula and lifting some up a little above the rest, let the detritus drip down and then lift it out of the tank. Turn your filter off prior to starting this also and do this slowly and you'll end up with less water clouding. Then, turn your filter back on after you've removed the desired amount of gravel to let it filter out any debris in the water column. As far as the live plants that you have, you are probably supposed to remove them from their containers. Maybe someone else can elaborate since I've never purchased any plants that came in containers. They would also spread out and probably grow better outside of the containers. Do you know what kind (species) of plants that you have? That would help us give you better direction. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... Thanks for all the help! He's doing okay in the net - not eating much and staying near the surface though. I ordered the antibiotic food so hopefully I'll get it by Tuesday latest. I hope Sunny survives that long, and I hope he's not suffering. :( Poor little guy. In the meantime... I also think I may have too much gravel. Just read something that said I should have 1/4 inch max. Eeek. I have a couple inches at least. I thought I needed more so I could bury the plants that come in those pots. But maybe that's why my nitrates are too high, even tho I vacuum it probably collects too much debris. So I'm going to take everything out, take out most of the gravel, vacuum well, then put plants/ornaments back. I'll wait though till I get the meds and feed them to my guppy for a few days before I do the cleanup. So.... the plants in the "wool" & pots will just stick out? There's 3 of them in the forefront of tank (grass). Any suggestions on how to make them look pretty with less gravel? So much to learn still! I was doing good and now this. And I just have a 10 gallon with 6 little fish. Sheesh!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > There's so much speculation about the use of Epsom salts and at one > time was thought to be a cure... but it's not. It's mild enough that > it can't really hurt to use it in conjunction with other more > aggressive treatment but Epsom salts by itself is not going to cure > dropsy, maybe just lessen the swelling a little. > > I guess Epsom salts would be comparable to using an ice pack to help > bring down the swelling of a human's injury but if the swelling is > caused by a bacterial infection, the ice might relieve some of the > symptoms but only proper medication is going to help with the infection. > > Treating with Epsom Salts should be done in a separate tank/container > and since Catherine said she didn't have this, I went with the net and > medicated food.. since the fish was still eating. > > This article explains the use of Epsom salts. > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > As far as using that 6" net, make sure you put something in the bottom > of the net to keep it open so it doesn't close up. Depending on the > shape of the net, something like a piece of gravel might work. > > You should have told the PetsMart (note that I always type PetsMart... > as in K-Mart or Wal-Mart... not PetSmart... since they're not too > smart.. lol) that he/she must have eaten a lot of peas since peas will > help clear up constipation in fish... or in the case of the PetsMart > employee, caused diarrhea of the mouth. > > I kept hoping Ray would show up in this thread also since he's a > better medicine man than I am... although I do have VooDoo on my side > down here in N'Awlins. ;-) In reading the Badman's article above, > they do mention using Erythromycin in conjunction with the Epsom Salts > so I'm sure the PetsMart probably has Erythromycin, usually by API and possibly from Mardel also. > > You don't need to purchase a whole lot to set up an H-tank. You can > use a Sterilite type storage container from Big Lots or Walmart. I > keep one of these on hand and store all my fish stuff in it until > needed. If you have an air pump already, hen make one of these DIY > corner filters if you don't have an extra filter laying around. > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.ht > ml You could use your existing air pump and just put a splitter on it > and run a second line to an air stone in the sponge filter or just > shove the air line down the riser tube and the big bubbles actually > work better than small bubbles to create lift/circulation through the > sponge filter. > > You would need a heater though. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > Hey Lenny! > Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? > I vaguely remember reading something about that... > Surely you'll know off the top of your head. > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@> > wrote: > > > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they didn't > > have > breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. > I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. Gggrrrr. > > > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with the > > handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for Sunny. I > > will have to buy the medicated food online and hope he lives until > > it arrives. :( > > > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the > > "fish > expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the guppy > peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and > suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store about peas and dropsy!! > Ridiculous. > > > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital tank > > do I > need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in a > big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him some > antibiotic powder? > > > > Thanks... > > Catherine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. > > > It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the tank > > > to hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're > > > mentioning PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. > > > Print the pages as the local stores will usually match the online > > > prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this would be big > > > savings but lately they > are much closer in price. > > > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure they > > > sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax and > > > Lee's > aquarium supplies. > > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued > > > but here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm_m > > > mc > > > =CSEMGoo > > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-8381 > > > -D > > > E11-B7F3 > > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - > > > Penn Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart > > > might match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only $4.97. > > > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't > > > have an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect an > > > injured or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The > > > breeder net can be > set up in a minute. > > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a > > > sort of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has > > > her tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. > > > Let the male suffer being in the breeder net in those instances. > > > LOL > > > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want > > > to save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put > > > them in the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure > > > it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating > > > net and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > > > Thanks so much, > > > Catherine > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. > > > > The > > > bad > > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, > > > > when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little > > > > pine > cone. > > > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29. > > > jpg > > > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back > > > > half of > > > the > > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v= > > > > 0 > > > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top > > > > view is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning > > > > better than any > > > other > > > > view. > > > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which > > > > causes the > > > fish > > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. > > > > The > > > last I > > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to > > > > what > > > started > > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > > > bacterial > > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully > > > > treating > > > early > > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental > > > goldfish, > > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a > > > > series > > > of 25% > > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without > > > > changing > > > the > > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing > > > > fish, > > > which > > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to > > > > put > > > out > > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how > > > > fast > > > fish > > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't > > > > eat > > > it, then > > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause > > > > your nitrates to rise. > > > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to > > > > treat > > > an > > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle > > > > Brand > > > makes an > > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed > > > > the > > > affected > > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would > > > > give > > > you a > > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also > > > > give > > > the sick > > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. > > > > While > > > the > > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first > > > instinct is > > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. > > > that's > > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for > > > > removing a > > > sick > > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for > > > > it's > > > life > > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on > > > > my > > > fish, > > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was > > > > hanging > > > out > > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do > > > anything. Is > > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what > > > > and how > > > to > > > > administer? > > > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > > NH3 = 0 > > > > NO3- = 80 > > > > PH = 7.0 > > > > GH = 7 > > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". > > > > Obviously > > > he > > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when > > > vacuuming > > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's > > > > buried > > > under > > > > some rocks. > > > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra > > > > Danios (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46213	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

No, the splashing shouldn't be an issue for him, but my light sits on top of the tank, and being one of the cheaper ones, doesn't accept the adapter legs for raising it up. Since I just bought the thing, I imagine hubby will pitch a fit if I start talking about getting one that hangs from the ceiling. I was kind of hoping to find something sturdier than the egg crate, too - something I could put a low profile planter on top of maybe. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Well, he has that shop light fixture hanging well over a foot above the tank so the splashing shouldn't be an issue... although I know mine gets me in the face sometimes at feeding time when I do open up the plexiglass cover. I think the egg crating looks to be a headache especially if you tried to move a plant. If one is going to have an open top tank like that, I'd probably go with maybe the egg crating hanging down in the water an inch and then use some other containers for the plants and just have them sitting on the submerged egg crating. The smaller square or round 1" to 1-1/2" high zip-loc food containers with lots of holes punched in them would work and maybe just using some pea gravel in the containers to hold the plants upright. Make sure you cut the egg crating so none of the *fingers* are sticking out and then sand any rough edges so the fish don't get scraped if swimming by the egg crating. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html#post472198 or http://tinyurl.com/yl47pv5 It's not quite what I was picturing in my mind for my project, but it would be a good start and certainly cheaper and easier than a setup that requires a pump, tubing and special drainage features. I'd be concerned about my lamp, though, because the goldies seem to really enjoy splashing. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics That's a seven page thread... where does the Aquaponics start... or do I have to read it all? I wanted to just save the Aquaponics page in my newly created Aquaponics Favorites folder. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). This shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad tank, but he uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant babies up out of the water, but let the roots fall into the top of the tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html Amber William M wrote: > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have > some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after > fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high > end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow > out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with > the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also > need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > Google - > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set > > up a Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > read > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46214	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

Tristan, Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. For reference, the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, all you would need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very thin layer, maybe 1/8-1/4". However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This complicates things a bit, but it also allows you to do some nifty stuff with the amount of gravel used. For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank not used for plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning easier, and build a small terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") where the plants would be located. You could start very low at one side of the tank, and gradually build the depth to the other side, and plants could then be spread out a bit, with varying depths of gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants are to be placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it seems the gravel has a tendency to level out over time with nothing to hold it into place. When building the terrace(s), you can hold the gravel in place by building a wall of rock or driftwood and then add the appropriate amount of gravel to the appropriate side. I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if you sit and think about it for a while. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate Hello, What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is inpatiently waiting for your reply please! Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Well the egg crate lighting material is pretty sturdy. It would easily hold as many small plants as you could fit on it. Of course, if your lights are the kind that sit on top of the tank, you would have to improvise. I'm sure there's a way to hang the lighting if you wanted but I understand if you don't want to undertake this chore... but what kind of lighting would you have used for the plants growing above the tank? If you take a picture of the top of your tank, so we could see how you have it set up now, we could probably offer some other low-cost DIY solutions. If I was into house plants, I'd probably do this Aquaponics thing also but I'm not. :-P I do have a few potted plants outside though... like Poinsettias left over from the past couple of Christmas' and other plants. One plant I've though about growing out of my goldfish tank is that vine type plant that is found in many office vases. No clue off the top of my head what it's called but I know I see it at the grocery store floral dept. all the time.. and I know it grows easily without the need for a substrate. You could take a strand of it from a friend who has a long runner, run it under the divider of the tank and then down the back or over the ends if it's long enough to start... and then let it grow, let it grow, let it grow (to the tune of "Let It Snow". It usually has a root ball but it will also send out stringer roots so they'll drop down into the water too if all you start off with is a strand of it. Any other fast growing house plants would also help to clean the water naturally but remember that PWC's are still needed even if plants are used for removing nitrates since the plants will also be using up other nutrients and minerals from the water which the fish might also need. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics No, the splashing shouldn't be an issue for him, but my light sits on top of the tank, and being one of the cheaper ones, doesn't accept the adapter legs for raising it up. Since I just bought the thing, I imagine hubby will pitch a fit if I start talking about getting one that hangs from the ceiling. I was kind of hoping to find something sturdier than the egg crate, too - something I could put a low profile planter on top of maybe. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Well, he has that shop light fixture hanging well over a foot above the tank so the splashing shouldn't be an issue... although I know mine gets me in the face sometimes at feeding time when I do open up the plexiglass cover. I think the egg crating looks to be a headache especially if you tried to move a plant. If one is going to have an open top tank like that, I'd probably go with maybe the egg crating hanging down in the water an inch and then use some other containers for the plants and just have them sitting on the submerged egg crating. The smaller square or round 1" to 1-1/2" high zip-loc food containers with lots of holes punched in them would work and maybe just using some pea gravel in the containers to hold the plants upright. Make sure you cut the egg crating so none of the *fingers* are sticking out and then sand any rough edges so the fish don't get scraped if swimming by the egg crating. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html#post472198 or http://tinyurl.com/yl47pv5 It's not quite what I was picturing in my mind for my project, but it would be a good start and certainly cheaper and easier than a setup that requires a pump, tubing and special drainage features. I'd be concerned about my lamp, though, because the goldies seem to really enjoy splashing. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics That's a seven page thread... where does the Aquaponics start... or do I have to read it all? I wanted to just save the Aquaponics page in my newly created Aquaponics Favorites folder. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). This shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad tank, but he uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant babies up out of the water, but let the roots fall into the top of the tank. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html Amber William M wrote: > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have > some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after > fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high > end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow > out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with > the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also > need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > Google - > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set > > up a Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > read > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46216	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/23/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

I use pothos in my 2 emperor 400 HOB filters and they are growinglike wildfire. I have also noticed that I can go longer between water changes without negatively effecting the water chemistry. I also have a pretty heavily planted tank. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Well the egg crate lighting material is pretty sturdy. It would easily hold as many small plants as you could fit on it. Of course, if your lights are the kind that sit on top of the tank, you would have to improvise. I'm sure there's a way to hang the lighting if you wanted but I understand if you don't want to undertake this chore... but what kind of lighting would you have used for the plants growing above the tank? If you take a picture of the top of your tank, so we could see how you have it set up now, we could probably offer some other low-cost DIY solutions. If I was into house plants, I'd probably do this Aquaponics thing also but I'm not. :-P I do have a few potted plants outside though... like Poinsettias left over from the past couple of Christmas' and other plants. One plant I've though about growing out of my goldfish tank is that vine type plant that is found in many office vases. No clue off the top of my head what it's called but I know I see it at the grocery store floral dept. all the time.. and I know it grows easily without the need for a substrate. You could take a strand of it from a friend who has a long runner, run it under the divider of the tank and then down the back or over the ends if it's long enough to start... and then let it grow, let it grow, let it grow (to the tune of "Let It Snow". It usually has a root ball but it will also send out stringer roots so they'll drop down into the water too if all you start off with is a strand of it. Any other fast growing house plants would also help to clean the water naturally but remember that PWC's are still needed even if plants are used for removing nitrates since the plants will also be using up other nutrients and minerals from the water which the fish might also need. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics No, the splashing shouldn't be an issue for him, but my light sits on top of the tank, and being one of the cheaper ones, doesn't accept the adapter legs for raising it up. Since I just bought the thing, I imagine hubby will pitch a fit if I start talking about getting one that hangs from the ceiling. I was kind of hoping to find something sturdier than the egg crate, too - something I could put a low profile planter on top of maybe. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Well, he has that shop light fixture hanging well over a foot above the tank so the splashing shouldn't be an issue... although I know mine gets me in the face sometimes at feeding time when I do open up the plexiglass cover. I think the egg crating looks to be a headache especially if you tried to move a plant. If one is going to have an open top tank like that, I'd probably go with maybe the egg crating hanging down in the water an inch and then use some other containers for the plants and just have them sitting on the submerged egg crating. The smaller square or round 1" to 1-1/2" high zip-loc food containers with lots of holes punched in them would work and maybe just using some pea gravel in the containers to hold the plants upright. Make sure you cut the egg crating so none of the *fingers* are sticking out and then sand any rough edges so the fish don't get scraped if swimming by the egg crating. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-a n> lantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html#post472198 or http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yl47pv5> com/yl47pv5 It's not quite what I was picturing in my mind for my project, but it would be a good start and certainly cheaper and easier than a setup that requires a pump, tubing and special drainage features. I'd be concerned about my lamp, though, because the goldies seem to really enjoy splashing. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics That's a seven page thread... where does the Aquaponics start... or do I have to read it all? I wanted to just save the Aquaponics page in my newly created Aquaponics Favorites folder. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). This shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad tank, but he uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant babies up out of the water, but let the roots fall into the top of the tank. http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-a n> lantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html Amber William M wrote: > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have > some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after > fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high > end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow > out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with > the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also > need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > Google - > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set > > up a Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > read > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46217	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

I'm not sure if you're checking your GH and KH but the more "life forms" you have drawing off the ecology of the tank, the faster the KH will be used up and the faster the minerals that make up your GH will diminish... as well as all of the other macro nutrients, vitamins and minerals that we can not easily test for. Yes, lots of plants will keep the nitrates from climbing as fast and possibly keep them near zero for the life of the tank but at a certain point, the KH level will get so low, the pH of the tank will crash which could kill off all of the fish. Further, the hormone levels in the tank will continually increase so if all of your fish are not full size, they will get stunted and even full size fish will feel increasing levels of stress due to feeling more overcrowded as the hormone levels rise. All this said, unless someone is doing PWC's on a regular basis, even a heavily planted tank can suffer water quality issues... often the kind that does not even show up on our tests. This is why it's good to test your tank for everything (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, etc.) on a regular basis until you *learn* your tank and it's ecology... but yes, if all of the other water parameters are staying in good shape between PWC's, the plants will keep the nitrates lower, CO2 lower and increase the O2 levels which are all better for the fish... so that could extend the time period in between PWC's... although I do not recommend it. Fresh clean water is still the best thing we can ever give our fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics I use pothos in my 2 emperor 400 HOB filters and they are growinglike wildfire. I have also noticed that I can go longer between water changes without negatively effecting the water chemistry. I also have a pretty heavily planted tank. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Well the egg crate lighting material is pretty sturdy. It would easily hold as many small plants as you could fit on it. Of course, if your lights are the kind that sit on top of the tank, you would have to improvise. I'm sure there's a way to hang the lighting if you wanted but I understand if you don't want to undertake this chore... but what kind of lighting would you have used for the plants growing above the tank? If you take a picture of the top of your tank, so we could see how you have it set up now, we could probably offer some other low-cost DIY solutions. If I was into house plants, I'd probably do this Aquaponics thing also but I'm not. :-P I do have a few potted plants outside though... like Poinsettias left over from the past couple of Christmas' and other plants. One plant I've though about growing out of my goldfish tank is that vine type plant that is found in many office vases. No clue off the top of my head what it's called but I know I see it at the grocery store floral dept. all the time.. and I know it grows easily without the need for a substrate. You could take a strand of it from a friend who has a long runner, run it under the divider of the tank and then down the back or over the ends if it's long enough to start... and then let it grow, let it grow, let it grow (to the tune of "Let It Snow". It usually has a root ball but it will also send out stringer roots so they'll drop down into the water too if all you start off with is a strand of it. Any other fast growing house plants would also help to clean the water naturally but remember that PWC's are still needed even if plants are used for removing nitrates since the plants will also be using up other nutrients and minerals from the water which the fish might also need. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics No, the splashing shouldn't be an issue for him, but my light sits on top of the tank, and being one of the cheaper ones, doesn't accept the adapter legs for raising it up. Since I just bought the thing, I imagine hubby will pitch a fit if I start talking about getting one that hangs from the ceiling. I was kind of hoping to find something sturdier than the egg crate, too - something I could put a low profile planter on top of maybe. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Well, he has that shop light fixture hanging well over a foot above the tank so the splashing shouldn't be an issue... although I know mine gets me in the face sometimes at feeding time when I do open up the plexiglass cover. I think the egg crating looks to be a headache especially if you tried to move a plant. If one is going to have an open top tank like that, I'd probably go with maybe the egg crating hanging down in the water an inch and then use some other containers for the plants and just have them sitting on the submerged egg crating. The smaller square or round 1" to 1-1/2" high zip-loc food containers with lots of holes punched in them would work and maybe just using some pea gravel in the containers to hold the plants upright. Make sure you cut the egg crating so none of the *fingers* are sticking out and then sand any rough edges so the fish don't get scraped if swimming by the egg crating. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-a n> lantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html#post472198 or http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yl47pv5> com/yl47pv5 It's not quite what I was picturing in my mind for my project, but it would be a good start and certainly cheaper and easier than a setup that requires a pump, tubing and special drainage features. I'd be concerned about my lamp, though, because the goldies seem to really enjoy splashing. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics That's a seven page thread... where does the Aquaponics start... or do I have to read it all? I wanted to just save the Aquaponics page in my newly created Aquaponics Favorites folder. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Okay I finally found my link (had to do some forum searching, lol). This shows step by step setup of this guy's natural planted Walstad tank, but he uses the egg crating on the top to hold his house plant babies up out of the water, but let the roots fall into the top of the tank. http://www.aquaticp <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-a n> lantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/62318-55g-low-tech-an gel-tank.html Amber William M wrote: > > My suggestion for an easy way to set up something like this is to have > some plastic rain gutters and fill with some aquarium gravel (after > fastening the gutter so that it will let the water flow from the high > end to the aquarium) with the top end "capped (so water does not flow > out that end) and have a small pump with a hose connected to it with > the other end run to the top of the gutter. Of course you will also > need to provide light for the plants to grow. > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I don't know of any reliable sites that I'd recommend but if you > Google - > > aquarium DIY hydroponic - I'm sure you'll find lots of info. I've > looked at > > sites before but have never done enough reading or research to set > > up a Favorites folder for the topic. > > > > Post any links you think might be good and I'm sure some of us would > read > > them to see if they are based on science or junk-science. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46218	From: Noura	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

Yeah I've seen such dividers too, they make it of pottery sometimes in the form of a natural wooden barrier. Very nice. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:54 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Substrate If you are using root plants, then you would probably need at least an inch. Don't go for much more unless you are planning lots of plants or the gravel will hold a lot of detritus which you will just have to vacuum up. I've even seen people add a divider across the tank so they can have a little deeper gravel in the back where they have their plants and then a thin layer in the front and the divider also keeps the roots from spreading into the thin gravel so you can fully vacuum the thin gravel area and leave the planted area alone, other than passing the siphon tube over the surface to pick up detritus on the surface by all of the plants. For non-planted tanks, they really need no more than 1/2" of substrate to cover the glass bottom, that way, it won't hold much detritus so it's a lot easier to vacuum and keep the water quality up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate Hello, What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is inpatiently waiting for your reply please! Tristan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46219	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Foods my Fish Like

I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food and medium color formula. Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46220	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Fish Hatchery Visit: Ray?

Missed you at Atlantis yesterday.I understand the trip was NJAS and ECC combined. I got some caudopunctatus, but not from Atlantis, from another member. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46221	From: Paula Brown	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Pothos Plants

I know that Pothos (I think that is how it is spelled!) are not aquatic plants, but has anybody ever tried them in an fish aquarium? They are such a prolific plant, root well in water, but I am just wondering if there is any chance that they would do well in a tank? In the past, I have had bamboo plants (which I know are also not aquatic), and had some of them survive for over six years, at which point they outgrew my 55 gallon tank and are now living with just their roots in water in my house. The Pothos are probably is not feasible, but I though I would pass along the question for thoughts. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46222	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Foods my Fish Like I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food and medium color formula. Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46223	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants

It looks like Pothos is what I referred to in an earlier reply in the Aquaponics thread. I don't think it would survive as an aquatic plant, just like the lucky bamboo (which isn't a true bamboo) does not do as well when more than a few inches of it's stalk is submerged... but either of these would do well growing above a tank in an Aquaponics environment. Lucky bamboo is not a fast growing plant so it would not do as much for naturally filtering the water like a fast growing plant like Pothos. Epipremnum aureum - commonly known as pothos, may not be the one I was thinking of now that I've read some website info on it. This site - http://www.plant-care.com/pothos-number-one-houseplant.html - says: "The pothos does not have a deep root system and it can very easily be kept with too much water in the soil. Under lower light levels and cooler temperatures the soil should be allowed to dry about half way down. Try not to soak the soil but water lightly around the entire pot." (END SNIP) Wikipedia says: For best results it requires medium indirect light; bright light is tolerated, but lengthy spells of direct sun will scorch the leaves. The plant prefers a temperature of between 17 to 30 °C (63 to 86 °F). Generally it only needs water when the soil begins to feel dry to the touch. This article - http://waterroots.com/pothos.htm - says: "Pothos does not have a deep root system, which makes it very susceptible to root rot. It is extremely important to water this plant that hates wet feet carefully, making sure it does not sit in waterlogged soil one too many times. As a preventive measure, always use a loose, well-draining potting soil that doesn’t take too long to dry out between waterings. Keep the soil evenly moist during the active growing season and allow it to dry out a little more in the winter months." The site also says that the Pothos is often confused with the Philodendrum but in looking at sites about Philo., it doesn't look the same to me and doesn't like wet conditions either. The plant I am thinking of and have seen in many offices actually is often *planted* in a vase of water only and seems to grow like weeds, which is contradictory to the above so I'll have to just try and get some cuttings the next time I see one of these vase plants. I did some more Googling and these links seem to list several plants that will grow with their roots in water only. http://ask.metafilter.com/22265/Growing-Plants-in-Water-Alone http://www.essortment.com/all/growinghousepl_reqi.htm http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/houseplt/msg0612320730124.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:33 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants I know that Pothos (I think that is how it is spelled!) are not aquatic plants, but has anybody ever tried them in an fish aquarium? They are such a prolific plant, root well in water, but I am just wondering if there is any chance that they would do well in a tank? In the past, I have had bamboo plants (which I know are also not aquatic), and had some of them survive for over six years, at which point they outgrew my 55 gallon tank and are now living with just their roots in water in my house. The Pothos are probably is not feasible, but I though I would pass along the question for thoughts. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46224	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Hatchery Visit: Ray?

Hi Donna, I didn't go this time as the last time I went, Peter didn't have anything I was looking for. Last time I was along for the Group trip, I had a talk with him about some of the harder to get fish I was after, which he said he would be getting in as he was interested in them himself, and that had to be at least 9 months ago or more. I checked with him for a while after that and he still was unable (or nor interested?) to get these certain fish in and I don't feel like going all the way up there and not buying anything so I sat this trip out. Glad to hear you got some caudopuntatus. There were two bags of them at the auction on Thursday night at the meeting, although I don't know who brought them in -- maybe Carlos or Joe J. Lots of luck with your fish. You missed another good meeting as Paul Loiselle gave a talk, as he does every January, and he's always interesting. You've GOT to get to one of the ECC auctions; give some thought to the one coming up on May 2nd. I know I'm not gonna miss it, but I may need to contact Ad Konings for those fish I'm after that I used to import and that have since disappeared from the hobby. See you, whenever you get to a meeting again. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46225	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants

Is pothos similar to or philodendron? An acquaintance had some philodendron growing from a screen container in a , I think, 20 gallon, that took over her bathroom, including growing down into the tub/shower enclosure. She said she needed to trim it on a regular basis so she could still have her mirrors available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 11:33 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants I know that Pothos (I think that is how it is spelled!) are not aquatic plants, but has anybody ever tried them in an fish aquarium? They are such a prolific plant, root well in water, but I am just wondering if there is any chance that they would do well in a tank? In the past, I have had bamboo plants (which I know are also not aquatic), and had some of them survive for over six years, at which point they outgrew my 55 gallon tank and are now living with just their roots in water in my house. The Pothos are probably is not feasible, but I though I would pass along the question for thoughts. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46226	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: They're Plant Tanks

An article published today in the New Haven (CT) Register: http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/01/24/life/doc4b5b8d862ebe5638571301 .txt http://tinyurl.com/y98rp7k They're plant tanks -- not fish tanks Published: Sunday, January 24, 2010 By Jim Shelton, Register Staff Click to enlarge Michael Teesdale, a biology researcher at Yale and founder of the Connecticut Aquatic Plant Association, has nine lushly planted aquariums like the one above in his Hamden home. (Peter Casolino/Register) HAMDEN - It's always a good time when Michael Teesdale and his friends get together to talk tanks. They'll order some pizzas, pull up a few empty water buckets and swap war stories about algae. They may even roll up their sleeves and snip a few sprigs of tank moss. Just, please, don't call their aquariums fish tanks. The Connecticut Aquatic Plant Association won't stand for that sort of language. "I've had people say, 'Why don't your fish tanks have any fish?'" says Teesdale, the 22-year-old founder and driving force behind the club. "Well, it's because they're PLANT tanks. Plants are beautiful, too." They are indeed. -------------<continued at link above>----------- If you live in CT, or RI or other nearby states and are interested in growing live plants, you may want to leave a comment asking for more information on this club. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46227	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Hatchery Visit: Ray?

I asked Joe J first since I got my original caudos from him, but he said he didn’t have any. Maybe it was Carlos. I got mine from Artie, but both Joe’s and Artie’s were zebra7 stock originally from Blue Chip. Question for the group. I always worry about buying fish from an auction, do you? Reasons include: They sit around all day in bags of cold water. They may not have the scientific name or collection point marked. I find it hard to paw through the bags to examine the fish I am interested in buying before the auction. I may not know the identity of the breeder, and I buy fish more on the rep of the breeder than what juveniles look like. I do like to make pre-arranged purchases and pick the fish up at auctions however. Your thoughts? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Hatchery Visit: Ray? Hi Donna, I didn't go this time as the last time I went, Peter didn't have anything I was looking for. Last time I was along for the Group trip, I had a talk with him about some of the harder to get fish I was after, which he said he would be getting in as he was interested in them himself, and that had to be at least 9 months ago or more. I checked with him for a while after that and he still was unable (or nor interested?) to get these certain fish in and I don't feel like going all the way up there and not buying anything so I sat this trip out. Glad to hear you got some caudopuntatus. There were two bags of them at the auction on Thursday night at the meeting, although I don't know who brought them in -- maybe Carlos or Joe J. Lots of luck with your fish. You missed another good meeting as Paul Loiselle gave a talk, as he does every January, and he's always interesting. You've GOT to get to one of the ECC auctions; give some thought to the one coming up on May 2nd. I know I'm not gonna miss it, but I may need to contact Ad Konings for those fish I'm after that I used to import and that have since disappeared from the hobby. See you, whenever you get to a meeting again. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46228	From: harry perry	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: They're Plant Tanks/Steve

Taking a minute to thank you for adding the Tiny Url link to your posts. When I get your messages Yahoo almost always "breaks" the regular link and they always contain extra spaces. Thanks again Harry --- On Sun, 1/24/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] They're Plant Tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 24, 2010, 12:21 PM   An article published today in the New Haven (CT) Register: http://www.nhregist er.com/articles/ 2010/01/24/ life/doc4b5b8d86 2ebe5638571301 .txt http://tinyurl. com/y98rp7k They're plant tanks -- not fish tanks Published: Sunday, January 24, 2010 By Jim Shelton, Register Staff Click to enlarge Michael Teesdale, a biology researcher at Yale and founder of the Connecticut Aquatic Plant Association, has nine lushly planted aquariums like the one above in his Hamden home. (Peter Casolino/Register) HAMDEN - It's always a good time when Michael Teesdale and his friends get together to talk tanks. They'll order some pizzas, pull up a few empty water buckets and swap war stories about algae. They may even roll up their sleeves and snip a few sprigs of tank moss. Just, please, don't call their aquariums fish tanks. The Connecticut Aquatic Plant Association won't stand for that sort of language. "I've had people say, 'Why don't your fish tanks have any fish?'" says Teesdale, the 22-year-old founder and driving force behind the club. "Well, it's because they're PLANT tanks. Plants are beautiful, too." They are indeed. ------------ -<continued at link above>------ ----- If you live in CT, or RI or other nearby states and are interested in growing live plants, you may want to leave a comment asking for more information on this club. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46229	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants

They look similar but they're not the same or similar species. I posted a longer reply earlier with info but the photos I saw of philodendron (which is the genus), did not look like pothos, which is just a common name for another genus and species. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants Is pothos similar to or philodendron? An acquaintance had some philodendron growing from a screen container in a , I think, 20 gallon, that took over her bathroom, including growing down into the tub/shower enclosure. She said she needed to trim it on a regular basis so she could still have her mirrors available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 11:33 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants I know that Pothos (I think that is how it is spelled!) are not aquatic plants, but has anybody ever tried them in an fish aquarium? They are such a prolific plant, root well in water, but I am just wondering if there is any chance that they would do well in a tank? In the past, I have had bamboo plants (which I know are also not aquatic), and had some of them survive for over six years, at which point they outgrew my 55 gallon tank and are now living with just their roots in water in my house. The Pothos are probably is not feasible, but I though I would pass along the question for thoughts. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46230	From: Noura	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!)

The spot started to slightly peel in one of the fish, could be on its own or because of guppies picking at them, should I do anything? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!) See if you can get closer up photos and as detailed as possible. I know it's not an easy task with some fish but keep trying. Maybe someone will see something they recognize. Try to take pictures of both sides since your other pictures all showed the same side. Sometimes, putting a sinking pellet type food right next to the front glass so the fish comes over and holds still while it's eating will give you a good close up shot. Using the macro setting on your camera, if you have this setting, will also help. If you don't have a macro setting, then most cameras will have a minimum distance that you must be from the subject to be in focus. As far as the guppies nipping on it when it's sitting still, I don't think that's unusual as fish will often nip at rocks, decorations, etc... thinking something might be food and a fish that is sitting still on the bottom would be treated the same way. My goldfish regularly check my pleco out to see if it's food and would also check out my Mystery Snails when I had them. Of course, possibly the guppies have better sight than we do and see something moving like some kind of worm type parasite but most of the external parasites that I know of are usually visible to the human eye, although I suppose they could start off smaller and then we don't see them till they become visible. I don't think I would remove this fish to quarantine just yet but keep an eye on it. Not all fish have exactly symmetrical patterns so it could still be simply normal coloration. If none of those photos looked like your fish, I'm wondering if you really have C. aeneus... or was it just that particular coloration that was different and you are certain of the fish's species? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of noura_taweel Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!) Hi Lenny, and thank you! Mine are Corydoras Aeneus, but none of the photos are similar to the coloration I see, or close to it, and now after about three days of observing them, it seems like it's not symmetrical anymore in two of the three corys. And it's more "white" on one than the other two, with a tiny wound-like hole, just as if the skin isn't all in the same level, I guess someone is nipping on him. The spots are not elevated at all. It's not ich or velvet, that's for sure, and the scales are clearly visible, not covered with anything. I just saw the Guppies nipping on the white spot of the cory when it was sitting still for a moment although it doesn't apear wounded or scratched, and the cory is active. Do you advise taking the corys to an isolation tank to prevent the guppies from wounding them? Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK. If that's what she has, then here's PlanetCatfish's profile on > them with lots of pics. > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51 > > Clicking on each thumbnail image will expand it to full size... or > starting with the first image here... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=129, you can > click on next and go through each one full size. The first image is a > good size view pic and there is a lighter colored band that runs the > full length of the fish starting right behind the head (near the front > of the dorsal fin) and runs to the tail. This new coloration she is > seeing could be the start of this band forming. > > The second image shows some sparkling that apparently is natural to > this species of Corydoras and that sparkling is a little what Velvet > might looks like if we didn't know it was actually the flash shining off of the fish. > > The fifth image here, > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=2127, shows a > fish with a similar coloration to what Noura is possibly seeing in her > fish, except for the red belly which the photographer warns is a dye > injected fish to create this red belly look but the top lighter color > starting under the dorsal fin is very similar to what I can see in Noura's fish. > > Then there's this pic... > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8699 ... a > face only a mother could love... and then the mother would have to be > blind. ;-) > > But then this one makes them look all cute again. :-D > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8808 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46231	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants

This is the same plant I put in my fishroom several months ago. I placed the pot in the opening of the tank which is too narrow and the bottom of the pot and roots within are in the water a couple inches at most, or sometimes not at all depending on how lax I am about water changes. It has spread up one wall, into the window sill area and I have directed several branches/vines into the tank next to it. http://www.thenewecologist.com/2009/07/top-10-natural-eco-friendly-and-anti-pollutant-houseplants/ "Devil's Ivy. Also known as the Golden Pothos and scientifically termed as Epipiremnum Aureum, the Devil’s ivy is a beautiful vine plant with leaves that are marbled and golden in color as per the name. Even if this plant is not taken care off, it thrives on and continues growing. This plant acts as an excellent natural anti-pollutant against common pollutants like benzene, formaldehyde and carbon monoxide. If kept on a top shelf, this plant climbs down as it matures. However, you should take care that this plant is not ingested in any way even by your own pet dog." -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 9:38 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants   Is pothos similar to or philodendron? An acquaintance had some philodendron growing from a screen container in a , I think, 20 gallon, that took over her bathroom, including growing down into the tub/shower enclosure. She said she needed to trim it on a regular basis so she could still have her mirrors available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 11:33 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants I know that Pothos (I think that is how it is spelled!) are not aquatic plants, but has anybody ever tried them in an fish aquarium? They are such a prolific plant, root well in water, but I am just wondering if there is any chance that they would do well in a tank? In the past, I have had bamboo plants (which I know are also not aquatic), and had some of them survive for over six years, at which point they outgrew my 55 gallon tank and are now living with just their roots in water in my house. The Pothos are probably is not feasible, but I though I would pass along the question for thoughts. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46232	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

Thanks for your inputs. I piled the gravel in the back to hold the live plants, and made a half and inch thickness at the front, but I still don't know what to put as a barrier, all the readily made ones seemed too big for the 10 gal. I'm thinking of cutting a drift wood into several small pieces and arrange them like a fence. Indeed, the gravel tends to level out with time and fish movement, that's what always happens in my 34 gal, I always make it 1" at front and 2" at the back, and it always levels out when I come to vacuum it. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Tristan, > > Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. For reference, > the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. > > If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, all you would > need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very thin layer, maybe 1/8-1/4". > However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This complicates > things a bit, but it also allows you to do some nifty stuff with the amount > of gravel used. > > For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank not used for > plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning easier, and build a small > terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") where the plants would be located. You > could start very low at one side of the tank, and gradually build the depth > to the other side, and plants could then be spread out a bit, with varying > depths of gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants are to be > placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. > > Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it seems the > gravel has a tendency to level out over time with nothing to hold it into > place. When building the terrace(s), you can hold the gravel in place by > building a wall of rock or driftwood and then add the appropriate amount of > gravel to the appropriate side. > > I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if you sit and > think about it for a while. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > Hello, > What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel > "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > Tristan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46233	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

"OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food > and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46234	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

Hi Tristan, A very old aquarium shop in San Francisco had an inexpensive way of doing this. They would get a piece of acrylic about 2 inches wide and longer than the width of the tank.They would place it in a Bow shape, inside of the bow facing the front of the tank, and on the back side they would add the substrate. This way they could have the plants in the back and an open area in the front for the fish to swim or display. You can obviously add gravel to the front if you want. If the acrylic bothers you you can place rocks in front of it, or silicone when dry and coat it with the same substrate you will be using. Get really creative and adhere some of the mesh they use for moss plants and start moss gowing on it. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: greyclouds99 <greyclouds99@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:24 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate   Thanks for your inputs. I piled the gravel in the back to hold the live plants, and made a half and inch thickness at the front, but I still don't know what to put as a barrier, all the readily made ones seemed too big for the 10 gal. I'm thinking of cutting a drift wood into several small pieces and arrange them like a fence. Indeed, the gravel tends to level out with time and fish movement, that's what always happens in my 34 gal, I always make it 1" at front and 2" at the back, and it always levels out when I come to vacuum it. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Tristan, > > Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. For reference, > the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. > > If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, all you would > need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very thin layer, maybe 1/8-1/4". > However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This complicates > things a bit, but it also allows you to do some nifty stuff with the amount > of gravel used. > > For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank not used for > plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning easier, and build a small > terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") where the plants would be located. You > could start very low at one side of the tank, and gradually build the depth > to the other side, and plants could then be spread out a bit, with varying > depths of gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants are to be > placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. > > Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it seems the > gravel has a tendency to level out over time with nothing to hold it into > place. When building the terrace(s), you can hold the gravel in place by > building a wall of rock or driftwood and then add the appropriate amount of > gravel to the appropriate side. > > I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if you sit and > think about it for a while. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > Hello, > What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel > "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > Tristan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46235	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

Kai, All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or small fish and it is a hit. Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end up going back to NLS. I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results from the food. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like   "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food > and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46236	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

I feed all my adult and juvenile fish NLS Cichlid Formula from the 5LB bucket as well. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Kai, All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or small fish and it is a hit. Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end up going back to NLS. I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results from the food. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@yahoo. <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com> com> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay. <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964> com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store. <http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html> fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food > and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46237	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Ram fry eating baby brine

The babies are finally able to eat the live baby brine shrimp. Should I feed only BBS from now on? Or should I offer powders too? Should I alternate at each feeding, or should I offer both types of food at each feeding? The babies look good today! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants

Lenny, As seen in a later post, then, it will probably grow like wildfire. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants They look similar but they're not the same or similar species. I posted a longer reply earlier with info but the photos I saw of philodendron (which is the genus), did not look like pothos, which is just a common name for another genus and species. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants Is pothos similar to or philodendron? An acquaintance had some philodendron growing from a screen container in a , I think, 20 gallon, that took over her bathroom, including growing down into the tub/shower enclosure. She said she needed to trim it on a regular basis so she could still have her mirrors available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 11:33 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants I know that Pothos (I think that is how it is spelled!) are not aquatic plants, but has anybody ever tried them in an fish aquarium? They are such a prolific plant, root well in water, but I am just wondering if there is any chance that they would do well in a tank? In the past, I have had bamboo plants (which I know are also not aquatic), and had some of them survive for over six years, at which point they outgrew my 55 gallon tank and are now living with just their roots in water in my house. The Pothos are probably is not feasible, but I though I would pass along the question for thoughts. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46239	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Only if you're SURE that ALL of the fry are able to eat BBS, should you then feed only BBS. If you're not sure, then continue feeding their first foods, along with the BBS, for several days -- or until you're sure they all can eat BBS. At that time, continue with feeding them only BBS. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46240	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

If it's determined that they all can't handle BBS yet -- or if you're unsure whether they can or not -- feed BOTH foods (powdered and BBS) during the SAME feedings (not alternating), until such time they all handle BBS. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46241	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants

They won't last long under water, but they are great on the top of the water or in the reservoir of your HOB filter. I put a couple of cuttings in each reservoir of my 2 HOB's and they are growing wild. Hydroponically speaking, Pothos do not need soil to grow and do well in water as long as the leaves are dry. I have also thought about getting some bamboo and putting them in there. The only thing you will need is a light source for the plants on the outside of the tank. I got a desk lamp with the extendable arm and found a grow bulb for it. Keep in mind that they do have wattage limitations for fire safety. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:33 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants I know that Pothos (I think that is how it is spelled!) are not aquatic plants, but has anybody ever tried them in an fish aquarium? They are such a prolific plant, root well in water, but I am just wondering if there is any chance that they would do well in a tank? In the past, I have had bamboo plants (which I know are also not aquatic), and had some of them survive for over six years, at which point they outgrew my 55 gallon tank and are now living with just their roots in water in my house. The Pothos are probably is not feasible, but I though I would pass along the question for thoughts. Paula in Monroe, Michigan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46242	From: john Lewis	Date: 1/24/2010
Subject:

Hello:    I've been able to get lots of nice fish from our club's auctions.  I'd have to say I think fish from the auctions are generally fine!    Have A Great Day!!!    John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46243	From: noura_taweel	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys - Photos provided

I just added the best 5 shots (out of about50 taken), it was a really hard mission to catch a close-up with the corys moving constantly. By the way, Lenny, putting sinking food to bring them to the front only made the situation worse! They went crazy as if they didn't eat two meals prior to this one today! And all the other folks also joined the celebration! What a starvation! Please check the photos for something you may recongnize. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > The spot started to slightly peel in one of the fish, could be on its own or because of guppies picking at them, should I do anything? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:16 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys aiming High!) > > > > See if you can get closer up photos and as detailed as possible. I know > it's not an easy task with some fish but keep trying. Maybe someone will > see something they recognize. Try to take pictures of both sides since your > other pictures all showed the same side. Sometimes, putting a sinking > pellet type food right next to the front glass so the fish comes over and > holds still while it's eating will give you a good close up shot. Using the > macro setting on your camera, if you have this setting, will also help. If > you don't have a macro setting, then most cameras will have a minimum > distance that you must be from the subject to be in focus. > > As far as the guppies nipping on it when it's sitting still, I don't think > that's unusual as fish will often nip at rocks, decorations, etc... thinking > something might be food and a fish that is sitting still on the bottom would > be treated the same way. My goldfish regularly check my pleco out to see if > it's food and would also check out my Mystery Snails when I had them. > > Of course, possibly the guppies have better sight than we do and see > something moving like some kind of worm type parasite but most of the > external parasites that I know of are usually visible to the human eye, > although I suppose they could start off smaller and then we don't see them > till they become visible. > > I don't think I would remove this fish to quarantine just yet but keep an > eye on it. Not all fish have exactly symmetrical patterns so it could still > be simply normal coloration. > > If none of those photos looked like your fish, I'm wondering if you really > have C. aeneus... or was it just that particular coloration that was > different and you are certain of the fish's species? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of noura_taweel > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys > aiming High!) > > Hi Lenny, and thank you! > Mine are Corydoras Aeneus, but none of the photos are similar to the > coloration I see, or close to it, and now after about three days of > observing them, it seems like it's not symmetrical anymore in two of the > three corys. And it's more "white" on one than the other two, with a tiny > wound-like hole, just as if the skin isn't all in the same level, I guess > someone is nipping on him. > > The spots are not elevated at all. It's not ich or velvet, that's for sure, > and the scales are clearly visible, not covered with anything. I just saw > the Guppies nipping on the white spot of the cory when it was sitting still > for a moment although it doesn't apear wounded or scratched, and the cory is > active. > Do you advise taking the corys to an isolation tank to prevent the guppies > from wounding them? > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. If that's what she has, then here's PlanetCatfish's profile on > > them with lots of pics. > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51 > > > > Clicking on each thumbnail image will expand it to full size... or > > starting with the first image here... > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=129, you can > > click on next and go through each one full size. The first image is a > > good size view pic and there is a lighter colored band that runs the > > full length of the fish starting right behind the head (near the front > > of the dorsal fin) and runs to the tail. This new coloration she is > > seeing could be the start of this band forming. > > > > The second image shows some sparkling that apparently is natural to > > this species of Corydoras and that sparkling is a little what Velvet > > might looks like if we didn't know it was actually the flash shining off > of the fish. > > > > The fifth image here, > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=2127, shows a > > fish with a similar coloration to what Noura is possibly seeing in her > > fish, except for the red belly which the photographer warns is a dye > > injected fish to create this red belly look but the top lighter color > > starting under the dorsal fin is very similar to what I can see in Noura's > fish. > > > > Then there's this pic... > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8699 ... a > > face only a mother could love... and then the mother would have to be > > blind. ;-) > > > > But then this one makes them look all cute again. :-D > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8808 > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: White spot-coloration on Corys - Photos provided

Those are better pics but I still do not see any kind of external parasite but whatever that is doesn't look good. It almost looks like some kind of issue under the skin to me. There are situations where fish will create excessive slime coat and then slough some of this off, which will appear to be that the skin is peeling. This is usually caused by some kind of water quality issue, contamination, etc., but can also be related to external parasites and even bacterial issues as well. http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/what-is-wrong-with-my-fish.html#Slim eCoat (read the entire section including causes and treatments) http://books.google.com/books?id=IPSCPpN2x3UC&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=corydoras+ sloughing+off+slime-coat&source=bl&ots=5Q55k762C9&sig=SaBpudw5JAEhJvFAKL3T6y esFVs&hl=en&ei=p5tdS8qtBoe0tgfp0-GbAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2 &ved=0CAoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false OR - http://preview.tinyurl.com/yfktlet - Google Book link about Discus Health Issues and the section about "Blue Slime Diseases", Costia, Chilodonella, etc., which are external parasites. I still am not positive that this is what you have but from your description that it is sloughing off slime-coat (or skin as you said in your previous post, "The spot started to slightly peel in one of the fish, could be on its own or because of guppies picking at them, should I do anything? Noura" Double check any treatments that you might have available to make sure they are safe at normal strength for catfish since many catfish do not handle meds as well as other fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPERBOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of noura_taweel Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys - Photos provided I just added the best 5 shots (out of about50 taken), it was a really hard mission to catch a close-up with the corys moving constantly. By the way, Lenny, putting sinking food to bring them to the front only made the situation worse! They went crazy as if they didn't eat two meals prior to this one today! And all the other folks also joined the celebration! What a starvation! Please check the photos for something you may recongnize. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/882869056/pic/list Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > The spot started to slightly peel in one of the fish, could be on its own or because of guppies picking at them, should I do anything? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:16 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : > Corys aiming High!) > > > > See if you can get closer up photos and as detailed as possible. I know > it's not an easy task with some fish but keep trying. Maybe someone will > see something they recognize. Try to take pictures of both sides since your > other pictures all showed the same side. Sometimes, putting a sinking > pellet type food right next to the front glass so the fish comes over and > holds still while it's eating will give you a good close up shot. Using the > macro setting on your camera, if you have this setting, will also help. If > you don't have a macro setting, then most cameras will have a minimum > distance that you must be from the subject to be in focus. > > As far as the guppies nipping on it when it's sitting still, I don't think > that's unusual as fish will often nip at rocks, decorations, etc... thinking > something might be food and a fish that is sitting still on the bottom would > be treated the same way. My goldfish regularly check my pleco out to see if > it's food and would also check out my Mystery Snails when I had them. > > Of course, possibly the guppies have better sight than we do and see > something moving like some kind of worm type parasite but most of the > external parasites that I know of are usually visible to the human eye, > although I suppose they could start off smaller and then we don't see them > till they become visible. > > I don't think I would remove this fish to quarantine just yet but keep an > eye on it. Not all fish have exactly symmetrical patterns so it could still > be simply normal coloration. > > If none of those photos looked like your fish, I'm wondering if you really > have C. aeneus... or was it just that particular coloration that was > different and you are certain of the fish's species? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of noura_taweel > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: White spot-coloration on Corys (was : Corys > aiming High!) > > Hi Lenny, and thank you! > Mine are Corydoras Aeneus, but none of the photos are similar to the > coloration I see, or close to it, and now after about three days of > observing them, it seems like it's not symmetrical anymore in two of the > three corys. And it's more "white" on one than the other two, with a tiny > wound-like hole, just as if the skin isn't all in the same level, I guess > someone is nipping on him. > > The spots are not elevated at all. It's not ich or velvet, that's for sure, > and the scales are clearly visible, not covered with anything. I just saw > the Guppies nipping on the white spot of the cory when it was sitting still > for a moment although it doesn't apear wounded or scratched, and the cory is > active. > Do you advise taking the corys to an isolation tank to prevent the guppies > from wounding them? > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > OK. If that's what she has, then here's PlanetCatfish's profile on > > them with lots of pics. > > > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=51 > > > > Clicking on each thumbnail image will expand it to full size... or > > starting with the first image here... > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=129, you can > > click on next and go through each one full size. The first image is a > > good size view pic and there is a lighter colored band that runs the > > full length of the fish starting right behind the head (near the front > > of the dorsal fin) and runs to the tail. This new coloration she is > > seeing could be the start of this band forming. > > > > The second image shows some sparkling that apparently is natural to > > this species of Corydoras and that sparkling is a little what Velvet > > might looks like if we didn't know it was actually the flash shining off > of the fish. > > > > The fifth image here, > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=2127, shows a > > fish with a similar coloration to what Noura is possibly seeing in her > > fish, except for the red belly which the photographer warns is a dye > > injected fish to create this red belly look but the top lighter color > > starting under the dorsal fin is very similar to what I can see in Noura's > fish. > > > > Then there's this pic... > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8699 ... a > > face only a mother could love... and then the mother would have to be > > blind. ;-) > > > > But then this one makes them look all cute again. :-D > > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=8808 > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46245	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Pothos Plants

I wish gardening websites would get a consensus on this. It seems most of the ones I read said these plants did not like a lot of water around their roots... or maybe that was just when they were planted in soil. It's interesting that this plant seems to be so environmentally active against indoor air pollution issues. I guess all plants are to some degree but this feature really seems to be stressed with regards to this plant. Sounds like FEMA should have just added a couple of these plants to each of the FEMA trailers after Katrina to handle the benzene and formaldehyde issues. I guess that would be too simple of a solution for the guv'ment. Of course, I never once saw a single media outlet suggesting these plants either so they're just as guilty. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPERBOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants This is the same plant I put in my fishroom several months ago. I placed the pot in the opening of the tank which is too narrow and the bottom of the pot and roots within are in the water a couple inches at most, or sometimes not at all depending on how lax I am about water changes. It has spread up one wall, into the window sill area and I have directed several branches/vines into the tank next to it. http://www.thenewecologist.com/2009/07/top-10-natural-eco-friendly-and-anti- pollutant-houseplants/ "Devil's Ivy. Also known as the Golden Pothos and scientifically termed as Epipiremnum Aureum, the Devil’s ivy is a beautiful vine plant with leaves that are marbled and golden in color as per the name. Even if this plant is not taken care off, it thrives on and continues growing. This plant acts as an excellent natural anti-pollutant against common pollutants like benzene, formaldehyde and carbon monoxide. If kept on a top shelf, this plant climbs down as it matures. However, you should take care that this plant is not ingested in any way even by your own pet dog." -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 9:38 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants   Is pothos similar to or philodendron? An acquaintance had some philodendron growing from a screen container in a , I think, 20 gallon, that took over her bathroom, including growing down into the tub/shower enclosure. She said she needed to trim it on a regular basis so she could still have her mirrors available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 11:33 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Pothos Plants I know that Pothos (I think that is how it is spelled!) are not aquatic plants, but has anybody ever tried them in an fish aquarium? They are such a prolific plant, root well in water, but I am just wondering if there is any chance that they would do well in a tank? In the past, I have had bamboo plants (which I know are also not aquatic), and had some of them survive for over six years, at which point they outgrew my 55 gallon tank and are now living with just their roots in water in my house. The Pothos are probably is not feasible, but I though I would pass along the question for thoughts. Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

I find that most Tetra foods have WAY TOO MUCH AND MANY fillers added to them. Look at the ingredients of your fish foods. If they start off with various flours/glutens/meals (except fish meal is OK since that just means ground up fish stuff) as their first few ingredients, they aren't the best things for your fish since fish don't really eat a whole lot of corn, wheat, etc. in their natural diets. Although they aren't cheap foods, I like the OmegaSea.net foods http://www.omegasea.net/products.html, labeled Omega One, but there are other quality foods that are similar with their limited use of fillers. Here's the ingredients for Omega One Natural Protein Formula "Freshwater Flakes" food for Tropical Fish: INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whole Herring , Whole Shrimp, Whole Krill, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, (then all the vitamins, etc.) And for Goldfish Flakes: INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Black Cod, Seafood Mix (Including Rockfish, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, As you see, "Wheat Flour" and "Wheat Gluten" are not listed until 7th and 8th ingredients on the tropical food and the 4th and 5th ingredients on the goldfish food, meaning they are no where near being primary ingredients. Compare this to the ingredients on most other non-premium and even some premium fish foods and you'll see the flours, glutens and meals listed as the primary ingredients. Even what I thought was a premium fish food a while back... Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake Food: INGREDIENTS: Fish Meal (which is OK), Corn Flour, Wheat Flour, P.D.P. (means Pre-Digested Plankton), Soy Flour, Oat Meal, Squid Meal, Fish Liver Meal, Wheat Gluten Meal, Squid Liver Meal, Fish Oil, Dried Yeast, Shrimp Meal, Laver Aquatic Plant, Krill, Wheat Germ Meal, (then all the vitamins, etc.) As you can see... A BIG DIFFERENCE with the Omega One obviously being a much better food, IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPERBOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read > ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 > My fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of > catfish food and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46247	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like

Well, they do, but my fish love them as a treat, mixed with Tiny Red Bits! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 8:02 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like I find that most Tetra foods have WAY TOO MUCH AND MANY fillers added to them. Look at the ingredients of your fish foods. If they start off with various flours/glutens/meals (except fish meal is OK since that just means ground up fish stuff) as their first few ingredients, they aren't the best things for your fish since fish don't really eat a whole lot of corn, wheat, etc. in their natural diets. Although they aren't cheap foods, I like the OmegaSea.net foods http://www.omegasea.net/products.html, labeled Omega One, but there are other quality foods that are similar with their limited use of fillers. Here's the ingredients for Omega One Natural Protein Formula "Freshwater Flakes" food for Tropical Fish: INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whole Herring , Whole Shrimp, Whole Krill, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, (then all the vitamins, etc.) And for Goldfish Flakes: INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Black Cod, Seafood Mix (Including Rockfish, & Shrimp), Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, As you see, "Wheat Flour" and "Wheat Gluten" are not listed until 7th and 8th ingredients on the tropical food and the 4th and 5th ingredients on the goldfish food, meaning they are no where near being primary ingredients. Compare this to the ingredients on most other non-premium and even some premium fish foods and you'll see the flours, glutens and meals listed as the primary ingredients. Even what I thought was a premium fish food a while back... Hagen's Nutrafin Max Goldfish Flake Food: INGREDIENTS: Fish Meal (which is OK), Corn Flour, Wheat Flour, P.D.P. (means Pre-Digested Plankton), Soy Flour, Oat Meal, Squid Meal, Fish Liver Meal, Wheat Gluten Meal, Squid Liver Meal, Fish Oil, Dried Yeast, Shrimp Meal, Laver Aquatic Plant, Krill, Wheat Germ Meal, (then all the vitamins, etc.) As you can see... A BIG DIFFERENCE with the Omega One obviously being a much better food, IMO. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPERBOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read > ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 > My fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of > catfish food and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

That's a great idea and since you don't have to use any silicone to hold it in place, someone can add this to their existing tank and then spoon out the gravel in the front until they get to their desired look. This could probably also be done if someone doesn't want an arching landscape coming all the way to the front corners by using a piece of plexiglass that only goes from end to end and then using short strips of plexiglass on each side in the front and then putting the arch so that it wedges against those short strips to keep the arch from sliding forward. I tried Googling for a webpage that shows this DIY technique (to save in my Favorites) but couldn't find anything about it. I'll have to rely on Bill's memory for this idea... uh oh... that might not work so well. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPERBOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate Hi Tristan, A very old aquarium shop in San Francisco had an inexpensive way of doing this. They would get a piece of acrylic about 2 inches wide and longer than the width of the tank.They would place it in a Bow shape, inside of the bow facing the front of the tank, and on the back side they would add the substrate. This way they could have the plants in the back and an open area in the front for the fish to swim or display. You can obviously add gravel to the front if you want. If the acrylic bothers you you can place rocks in front of it, or silicone when dry and coat it with the same substrate you will be using. Get really creative and adhere some of the mesh they use for moss plants and start moss gowing on it. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: greyclouds99 <greyclouds99@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:24 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate   Thanks for your inputs. I piled the gravel in the back to hold the live plants, and made a half and inch thickness at the front, but I still don't know what to put as a barrier, all the readily made ones seemed too big for the 10 gal. I'm thinking of cutting a drift wood into several small pieces and arrange them like a fence. Indeed, the gravel tends to level out with time and fish movement, that's what always happens in my 34 gal, I always make it 1" at front and 2" at the back, and it always levels out when I come to vacuum it. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Tristan, > > Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. For reference, > the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. > > If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, all you would > need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very thin layer, maybe 1/8-1/4". > However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This complicates > things a bit, but it also allows you to do some nifty stuff with the amount > of gravel used. > > For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank not used for > plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning easier, and build a small > terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") where the plants would be located. You > could start very low at one side of the tank, and gradually build the depth > to the other side, and plants could then be spread out a bit, with varying > depths of gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants are to be > placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. > > Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it seems the > gravel has a tendency to level out over time with nothing to hold it into > place. When building the terrace(s), you can hold the gravel in place by > building a wall of rock or driftwood and then add the appropriate amount of > gravel to the appropriate side. > > I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if you sit and > think about it for a while. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > Hello, > What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel > "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46249	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty darned good too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish on the forehead and say... "Should have had a V-8!" http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 0 New Life Spectrum® food is made with high-quality easily digestible South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish’s color. With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. All New Life Spectrum® products also contain a generous inclusion rate of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, etc.) (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Kai, All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or small fish and it is a hit. Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end up going back to NLS. I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results from the food. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like   "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food > and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46250	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

My fish prefer anything that _I_ Make, LOL. They go crazy for my gel food mixes, no matter what I put in them (the main ingredient is usually shrimp/fish, with veggies and lots of extra stuff). My snails will dogpile each other just to get to the food, and that of course leaves all the fish out, as they can't even reach the food between all the snails ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty > darned good > too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish on the forehead > and say... "Should have had a V-8!" > > http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 > <http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6> > 0 > > New Life Spectrum® food is made with high-quality easily digestible South > Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and > several > all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts > immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish’s > color. > With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied > diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, > Kelp, and > Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural > Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of > Spinach, > Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, > Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. > > All New Life Spectrum® products also contain a generous inclusion rate of > Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a > mega-dose of > this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. > > All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find anything > better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis will be > different > due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. > > Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat > Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, > Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red > Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, > Mango, > Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, etc.) > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > Kai, > > All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to > get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) > > My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta > food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. > > I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or > small fish and it is a hit. > > Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end > up going back to NLS. > > I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results > from > the food. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > > "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" > > But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, > Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley > ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface > but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. > And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin > granules > (with the green color coded cap.) > > And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin > Tropical Tablets clouding the water? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" > <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > > > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > > list: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964> > My > > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html > <http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html> Click on "Fish > > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of > catfish > food > and medium color formula. > > > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

Speaking of *your* gel foods... how did that last batch-that-wouldn't-gel finally turn out after the baking fix that I had to use? Did you ever figure out the ingredient that had them pesky enzymes that messes up the gel-effect? I'm going to stick to the recipe, instead of improvising, on my next batch. LOL Oh.. and one other thing that I missed in my previous reply... I'm wondering where NLS gets "*South* Antartic Krill" from???? Am I missing something in my recollection of World Geography? Can you really get any further south once you reach the Antarctica continent, which covers the entire South Pole of the Earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica NLS still looks like a really good food... maybe someone got overzealous in their website description of their food. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 9:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like My fish prefer anything that _I_ Make, LOL. They go crazy for my gel food mixes, no matter what I put in them (the main ingredient is usually shrimp/fish, with veggies and lots of extra stuff). My snails will dogpile each other just to get to the food, and that of course leaves all the fish out, as they can't even reach the food between all the snails ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty > darned good too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish > on the forehead and say... "Should have had a V-8!" > > http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&It > emid=6 > <http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&I > temid=6> > 0 > > New Life SpectrumR food is made with high-quality easily digestible > South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, > and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced > diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum > of your fish's color. > With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced > varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of > Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium > grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract > that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red > Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, > and Peach. > > All New Life SpectrumR products also contain a generous inclusion rate > of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a > mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. > > All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find > anything better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis > will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated > into a specific formula. > > Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, > Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta > Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, > Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, > Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, > etc.) (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > Kai, > > All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a > time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) > > My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of > "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. > > I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for > fry or small fish and it is a hit. > > Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I > end up going back to NLS. > > I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results > from the food. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > > "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" > > But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For > example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes > the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula > off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. > And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin > granules (with the green color coded cap.) > > And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with > Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" > <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first > ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I > bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has > an easy to read ingredients > list: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964> > My > > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html > <http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html> Click on "Fish > > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of > catfish food > and medium color formula. > > > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46252	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

I don't know about this garlic thing. I see a lot of fish food and stuff promoting it as good for fish. It may be, but I've yet to see a fish that would be eating it in the wild. Hey, any fishermen out there? How does a clove of garlic act as bait? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty darned good too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish on the forehead and say... "Should have had a V-8!" http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 0 New Life Spectrum® food is made with high-quality easily digestible South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish’s color. With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. All New Life Spectrum® products also contain a generous inclusion rate of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, etc.) (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Kai, All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or small fish and it is a hit. Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end up going back to NLS. I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results from the food. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like   "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food > and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46253	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

Will a regular silicone pistol work for this purpose? Is it non-toxic to fish? Brilliant idea, by the way. I came across a DIY article about making pleco caves with PVC pipes cut in half and coated with silicone and gravel, just the same way you described. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Tristan, > > A very old aquarium shop in San Francisco had an inexpensive way of > doing this. They would get a piece of acrylic about 2 inches wide and > longer than the width of the tank.They would place it in a Bow shape, > inside of the bow facing the front of the tank, and on the back side > they would add the substrate. This way they could have the plants in > the back and an open area in the front for the fish to swim or display. > You can obviously add gravel to the front if you want. If the acrylic > bothers you you can place rocks in front of it, or silicone when dry > and coat it with the same substrate you will be using. Get really > creative and adhere some of the mesh they use for moss plants and start > moss gowing on it. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: greyclouds99 <greyclouds99@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:24 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate > >   > Thanks for your inputs. I piled the gravel in the back to hold the live > plants, and made a half and inch thickness at the front, but I still > don't know what to put as a barrier, all the readily made ones seemed > too big for the 10 gal. I'm thinking of cutting a drift wood into > several small pieces and arrange them like a fence. > > Indeed, the gravel tends to level out with time and fish movement, > that's what always happens in my 34 gal, I always make it 1" at front > and 2" at the back, and it always levels out when I come to vacuum it. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" steve@ > wrote: > > > > Tristan, > > > > Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. For > reference, > > the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. > > > > If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, all > you would > > need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very thin layer, maybe > 1/8-1/4". > > However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This > complicates > > things a bit, but it also allows you to do some nifty stuff with > the amount > > of gravel used. > > > > For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank not > used for > > plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning easier, and > build a small > > terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") where the plants would be > located. You > > could start very low at one side of the tank, and gradually build > the depth > > to the other side, and plants could then be spread out a bit, with > varying > > depths of gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants are > to be > > placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. > > > > Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it > seems the > > gravel has a tendency to level out over time with nothing to hold > it into > > place. When building the terrace(s), you can hold the gravel in > place by > > building a wall of rock or driftwood and then add the appropriate > amount of > > gravel to the appropriate side. > > > > I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if you > sit and > > think about it for a while. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > > > Hello, > > What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's > fine gravel > > "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small > plants. > > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta > is > > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > > > Tristan > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46254	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

They do sell garlic juice based oil for squirting on bait for fishing at sporting goods stores and there's plenty of DIY recipes. Do a Google and you'll find thousands of hits. The other thing is that garlic is suppose to be a natural anti-parasitic by making the fish taste bad to external parasites and chasing the internals out as well. I've seen this discussed in the advanced discussion forums in the TFH forums but I'm not sure if there's any scientific study done yet. Heck, it has been working against Vampires for thousands of years. ;-) Or is that just the bad breath that one ends up with that chases Vampires away. LOL http://www.garlic-central.com/vampires.html http://www.garlic-cloves.com/garlic_and_vampires.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire#Protection For humans that eat lots of garlic, it supposedly repels mosquitoes and other biting bugs. I eat my fair share in various foods since I like spicy seasoned foods so I'm not sure if it's the hot sauce or the garlic that repels them skeeters but I know I can be outside with other people and they'll be complaining about skeeters or gnats and I'll be just fine. ;-) Here's a Tabasco commercial from a Super Bowl ad a few years ago that's pretty funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VICaWgD-76w Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like I don't know about this garlic thing. I see a lot of fish food and stuff promoting it as good for fish. It may be, but I've yet to see a fish that would be eating it in the wild. Hey, any fishermen out there? How does a clove of garlic act as bait? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty darned good too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish on the forehead and say... "Should have had a V-8!" http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 0 New Life Spectrum® food is made with high-quality easily digestible South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish’s color. With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. All New Life Spectrum® products also contain a generous inclusion rate of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, etc.) (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Kai, All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or small fish and it is a hit. Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end up going back to NLS. I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results from the food. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like   "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food > and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

Oops.. I sent that last reply too quick. Here's a Tabasco w/Garlic ad against Vampires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvzYyjlUcT0&NR=1 But this is my favorite Tabasco HOT ad. ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2XaLCWNY70&NR=1 Oops.. did I forget the "sauce" behind "HOT"? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like I don't know about this garlic thing. I see a lot of fish food and stuff promoting it as good for fish. It may be, but I've yet to see a fish that would be eating it in the wild. Hey, any fishermen out there? How does a clove of garlic act as bait? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty darned good too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish on the forehead and say... "Should have had a V-8!" http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 0 New Life Spectrum® food is made with high-quality easily digestible South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish’s color. With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. All New Life Spectrum® products also contain a generous inclusion rate of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, etc.) (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Kai, All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or small fish and it is a hit. Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end up going back to NLS. I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results from the food. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like   "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food > and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46256	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

It's best to buy Aquarium Silicone that is non-toxic to fish once it's cured but your tank would have to be broken down and dried out before doing that. The method that Mike (Deneerz) suggested could be done while the tank is full and if you read my follow-up, I think adding the side braces first would make the arch not have to be so much of an arch and it could be further back in the tank. Another thing that would work is buying some 1/8" plexiglass and using a heat gun to bend a 6" wide strip into an L so that 4" is on the bottom and 2" sticks up and that could be slide under existing gravel and the weight of the gravel would keep it in place... kind of like how the cheap metal book end holders work where the books help hold the book end in place. This would allow for a straight across divider... although the arched divider probably looks nice too and if you used the same heat gun method to bend the plexiglass in a couple of spots, the divider wouldn't be a perfect arch and would have some curves to it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 11:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate Will a regular silicone pistol work for this purpose? Is it non-toxic to fish? Brilliant idea, by the way. I came across a DIY article about making pleco caves with PVC pipes cut in half and coated with silicone and gravel, just the same way you described. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Tristan, > > A very old aquarium shop in San Francisco had an inexpensive way of > doing this. They would get a piece of acrylic about 2 inches wide and > longer than the width of the tank.They would place it in a Bow shape, > inside of the bow facing the front of the tank, and on the back side > they would add the substrate. This way they could have the plants in > the back and an open area in the front for the fish to swim or display. > You can obviously add gravel to the front if you want. If the acrylic > bothers you you can place rocks in front of it, or silicone when dry > and coat it with the same substrate you will be using. Get really > creative and adhere some of the mesh they use for moss plants and > start moss gowing on it. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: greyclouds99 <greyclouds99@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:24 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate > >  > Thanks for your inputs. I piled the gravel in the back to hold the > live plants, and made a half and inch thickness at the front, but I > still don't know what to put as a barrier, all the readily made ones > seemed too big for the 10 gal. I'm thinking of cutting a drift wood > into several small pieces and arrange them like a fence. > > Indeed, the gravel tends to level out with time and fish movement, > that's what always happens in my 34 gal, I always make it 1" at front > and 2" at the back, and it always levels out when I come to vacuum it. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" steve@ > wrote: > > > > Tristan, > > > > Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. For > reference, > the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. > > > > If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, all > you would > need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very thin > layer, maybe 1/8-1/4". > > However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This > complicates > things a bit, but it also allows you to do some nifty > stuff with the amount > of gravel used. > > > > For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank not > used for > plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning > easier, and build a small > terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") where > the plants would be located. You > could start very low at one side > of the tank, and gradually build the depth > to the other side, and > plants could then be spread out a bit, with varying > depths of > gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants are to be > > placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. > > > > Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it > seems the > gravel has a tendency to level out over time with > nothing to hold it into > place. When building the terrace(s), you > can hold the gravel in place by > building a wall of rock or > driftwood and then add the appropriate amount of > gravel to the > appropriate side. > > > > I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if you > sit and > think about it for a while. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM > To: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > > Hello, > What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 > gal? It's fine gravel > "not sand like though", and it's supposed > to hold very few small plants. > > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta > is > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > > > Tristan > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46257	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

That garlic works against vampires is an old wives' tale. Just try it on some vampire tetras (_Hydrolycus scomberoides_). [For those of you with an interest in this silliness, forget about keeping these fish, while you may come across some small ones in a store, they will grow to 4' and about 40 lbs., as well as eating you out of house and home.] You want some hot sauce? You probably want some of this. Blair's Reserve 16 Million Crystals. It rates at about 16,000,000 Scoville heat units On the other hand, the rating of your Tabasco depends on the variety, ranging from 100-600 SHU for the Sweet and Spicy Sauce to >7,000 SHU for the Habenaro Sauce. Should any member of the list meet Lenny in New Orleans, pay attention to which Tabasco he uses and how much. We'll see if he is a real man or not. FWIW, the hottest I ever had rated at about 100,000 SHU, and to say it was a touch warm is a rather large understatement. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Oops.. I sent that last reply too quick. Here's a Tabasco w/Garlic ad against Vampires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvzYyjlUcT0&NR=1 But this is my favorite Tabasco HOT ad. ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2XaLCWNY70&NR=1 Oops.. did I forget the "sauce" behind "HOT"? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like I don't know about this garlic thing. I see a lot of fish food and stuff promoting it as good for fish. It may be, but I've yet to see a fish that would be eating it in the wild. Hey, any fishermen out there? How does a clove of garlic act as bait? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty darned good too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish on the forehead and say... "Should have had a V-8!" http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 0 New Life Spectrum® food is made with high-quality easily digestible South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish’s color. With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. All New Life Spectrum® products also contain a generous inclusion rate of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, etc.) (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Kai, All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or small fish and it is a hit. Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end up going back to NLS. I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results from the food. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like   "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food > and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46258	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

perhaps it's one of those "so far south it's now north?" types of things? LOL My "gel" food worked out okay when I baked it, different texture but it still sinks and holds together, and the fish love it, so it works for me ;) I never figured out what was making it "not gel" with the gelatin, but in this next batch I'm going to try something different. I have to make more before the squash goes bad anyways, so I'll have a ton in the freezer ;) LOL Now, hopefully it's not the squash causing problems ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Speaking of *your* gel foods... how did that last batch-that-wouldn't-gel > finally turn out after the baking fix that I had to use? Did you ever > figure out the ingredient that had them pesky enzymes that messes up the > gel-effect? I'm going to stick to the recipe, instead of improvising, > on my > next batch. LOL > > Oh.. and one other thing that I missed in my previous reply... I'm > wondering > where NLS gets "*South* Antartic Krill" from???? Am I missing something in > my recollection of World Geography? Can you really get any further south > once you reach the Antarctica continent, which covers the entire South > Pole > of the Earth. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica> > > NLS still looks like a really good food... maybe someone got > overzealous in > their website description of their food. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > My fish prefer anything that _I_ Make, LOL. They go crazy for my gel food > mixes, no matter what I put in them (the main ingredient is usually > shrimp/fish, with veggies and lots of extra stuff). My snails will dogpile > each other just to get to the food, and that of course leaves all the fish > out, as they can't even reach the food between all the snails ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty > > darned good too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish > > on the forehead and say... "Should have had a V-8!" > > > > > http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&It > <http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&It> > > emid=6 > > > <http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&I > <http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&I> > > temid=6> > > 0 > > > > New Life SpectrumR food is made with high-quality easily digestible > > South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, > > and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced > > diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum > > of your fish's color. > > With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced > > varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of > > Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium > > grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract > > that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red > > Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, > > and Peach. > > > > All New Life SpectrumR products also contain a generous inclusion rate > > of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a > > mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. > > > > All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find > > anything better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis > > will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated > > into a specific formula. > > > > Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, > > Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta > > Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, > > Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, > > Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, > > etc.) (END SNIP) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > > > Kai, > > > > All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a > > time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) > > > > My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of > > "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. > > > > I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for > > fry or small fish and it is a hit. > > > > Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I > > end up going back to NLS. > > > > I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results > > from the food. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > > > > > "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" > > > > But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For > > example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes > > the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula > > off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. > > And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin > > granules (with the green color coded cap.) > > > > And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with > > Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" > > <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > > > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > > > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first > > ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I > > bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has > > an easy to read ingredients > list: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964> > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964>> > > My > > > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > > > > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > > > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html > <http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html> > > <http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html > <http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html>> Click on "Fish > > > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of > > catfish food > and medium color formula. > > > > > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and > medicated. > > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46259	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

Ahh 4 feet is nothing, try that monster (red tailed) catfish I was sold on for size ;) LOL. They really shouldn't sell you a fish that's going to grow as long as your tank is and tell you "it'll fit in your tank just great!" LOL Right... if I take everything out, decorations included ;) I'll remember not to ever eat anything Lenny cooks if he likes his food that hot, not that I'll be down in New Orleans anytime soon or anything ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > That garlic works against vampires is an old wives' tale. Just try it on > some vampire tetras (_Hydrolycus scomberoides_). [For those of you with an > interest in this silliness, forget about keeping these fish, while you may > come across some small ones in a store, they will grow to 4' and about 40 > lbs., as well as eating you out of house and home.] > > You want some hot sauce? You probably want some of this. Blair's > Reserve 16 > Million Crystals. It rates at about 16,000,000 Scoville heat units On the > other hand, the rating of your Tabasco depends on the variety, ranging > from > 100-600 SHU for the Sweet and Spicy Sauce to >7,000 SHU for the Habenaro > Sauce. > > Should any member of the list meet Lenny in New Orleans, pay attention to > which Tabasco he uses and how much. We'll see if he is a real man or not. > FWIW, the hottest I ever had rated at about 100,000 SHU, and to say it > was a > touch warm is a rather large understatement. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:31 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > Oops.. I sent that last reply too quick. > > Here's a Tabasco w/Garlic ad against Vampires. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvzYyjlUcT0&NR=1 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvzYyjlUcT0&NR=1> > > But this is my favorite Tabasco HOT ad. ;-) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2XaLCWNY70&NR=1 > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2XaLCWNY70&NR=1> > > Oops.. did I forget the "sauce" behind "HOT"? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > I don't know about this garlic thing. I see a lot of fish food and stuff > promoting it as good for fish. It may be, but I've yet to see a fish that > would be eating it in the wild. Hey, any fishermen out there? How does a > clove of garlic act as bait? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 9:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty > darned good > too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish on the forehead > and say... "Should have had a V-8!" > > http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 > <http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6> > 0 > > New Life Spectrum® food is made with high-quality easily digestible South > Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and > several > all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts > immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish’s > color. > With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied > diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, > Kelp, and > Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural > Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of > Spinach, > Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, > Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. > > All New Life Spectrum® products also contain a generous inclusion rate of > Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a > mega-dose of > this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. > > All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find anything > better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis will be > different > due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. > > Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat > Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, > Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red > Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, > Mango, > Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, etc.) (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > Kai, > > All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to > get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) > > My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta > food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. > > I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or > small fish and it is a hit. > > Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end > up going back to NLS. > > I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results > from > the food. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like > > > "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" > > But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, > Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley > ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface > but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. > And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin > granules > (with the green color coded cap.) > > And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin > Tropical Tablets clouding the water? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dora Smith" > <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Kai wrote: > > > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > > > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > > list: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964> > My > > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html > <http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html> Click on "Fish > > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of > catfish > food > and medium color formula. > > > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46260	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: Re: Foods my Fish Like

I don't know \\Steve//... I think that last link in my previous reply is HOTTER than 16,000,000 SHU. ;-) I'll admit that I actually do not eat a lot of Zatarain's brand hot sauce, instead going for the various competitors, some comparable and some MUCH HOTTER. As \\Steve// pointed out, Tabasco has tempered their hotness to appeal to a larger customer base and only came out with the Habanero Sauce within the last 10 years or so from what I remember. On a side note, our late and beloved Buddy Diliberto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_%22Buddy%22_Diliberto, a local N'Awlins sports radio and sports TV personality, who died January 5, 2005, always said that he'd wear a dress if the Saints ever made it to the Super Bowl, which prompted our local newspaper to run this story today. http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/01/post_127.html Anyhow, the reason for this tidbit segues back to hot sauce in that Buddy D was famous for NOT being able to pronounce multisyllabic words very well, so Tabasco had him star in the TV commercial for Tabasco's Habanero Sauce when it came out. It probably only played in our local markets but it was funny to see Buddy D butchering Habanero. Well... I tried to find that commercial online and can't find it so I just zipped off an email to Tabasco since they don't even have a Tabasco Channel on YouTube or even host their commercials on their own website, http://www.Tabasco.com, so they can get free advertising. They need to hire me for their P.R. department. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 3:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like That garlic works against vampires is an old wives' tale. Just try it on some vampire tetras (_Hydrolycus scomberoides_). [For those of you with an interest in this silliness, forget about keeping these fish, while you may come across some small ones in a store, they will grow to 4' and about 40 lbs., as well as eating you out of house and home.] You want some hot sauce? You probably want some of this. Blair's Reserve 16 Million Crystals. It rates at about 16,000,000 Scoville heat units On the other hand, the rating of your Tabasco depends on the variety, ranging from 100-600 SHU for the Sweet and Spicy Sauce to >7,000 SHU for the Habenaro Sauce. Should any member of the list meet Lenny in New Orleans, pay attention to which Tabasco he uses and how much. We'll see if he is a real man or not. FWIW, the hottest I ever had rated at about 100,000 SHU, and to say it was a touch warm is a rather large understatement. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Oops.. I sent that last reply too quick. Here's a Tabasco w/Garlic ad against Vampires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvzYyjlUcT0&NR=1 But this is my favorite Tabasco HOT ad. ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2XaLCWNY70&NR=1 Oops.. did I forget the "sauce" behind "HOT"? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like I don't know about this garlic thing. I see a lot of fish food and stuff promoting it as good for fish. It may be, but I've yet to see a fish that would be eating it in the wild. Hey, any fishermen out there? How does a clove of garlic act as bait? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Looking at the ingredients for NLS, it looks like they're pretty darned good too! Just watch out for NLS fed fish that smack other fish on the forehead and say... "Should have had a V-8!" http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 0 New Life Spectrum® food is made with high-quality easily digestible South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish’s color. With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied diet, New Life also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach. All New Life Spectrum® products also contain a generous inclusion rate of Garlic (Allium Sativum) with the Thera-A formulas containing a mega-dose of this natural anti-parasitic ingredient. All ingredients used are almost identical, since we cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), (various vitamins, etc.) (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like Kai, All of my fish devour New Life Spectrum. I buy it five pounds at a time to get the best price and a cool little fish bucket ;) My bettas love it. I gave some to a friend that was running out of "Betta food" and she sad her betta went nuts over the NLS. I have two mortar and pestles and grind the pellets into powder for fry or small fish and it is a hit. Every time I think I want to try a different or less expensive brand I end up going back to NLS. I do not own stock in NLS or know Pablo Teepoot, just like the results from the food. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Foods my Fish Like   "OH BOY, IT'S THE FOOD LADY! THE FOOD LADY!!!" But there are brands that they definitely prefer of others. For example, Nessie the Tank Monster spits out HBH algae wafers but likes the Wardley ones. The tinfoils will eat Turtle Bites and color formula off the surface but will ignore the cichlid food that looks identical. And my Bettas have no interest in any brand other than the TetraMin granules (with the green color coded cap.) And going off on a tangent, does anyone else have a problem with Tetramin Tropical Tablets clouding the water? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > My fish say, GIMME FOOD! GIMME FOOD! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > Kai wrote: > > I recently discovered HBH Turtle Bites and I'm impressed by their > ingredients. Lots of veggies and "real food" as the first ingredients > versus unpronounceable multi-syllabic chemicals. I bought a container > cheaper at PetsMart but this ebay auction has an easy to read ingredients > list: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230374115964 My > fish seem to like it... I give them some "as a treat." > > Otherwise, I get my fish food from these guys: > http://store.fastcommerce.com/flguppiesplus/home.html Click on "Fish > Supplies" up on the top menu bar. My guys love a 2-to-1 mix of catfish food > and medium color formula. > > Also take a look at their flakes. Carnivore, spirulina and medicated. > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: FW: Coming Soon: NEW Aquarium & Pond Supply Superstore!

I just got the below email from DrsFosterSmith.com. Thought I'd pass it on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Drs. Foster and Smith [mailto:editor@...] Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 5:46 PM To: goldlenny@... Subject: Coming Soon: NEW Aquarium & Pond Supply Superstore! Dear LENNY, Coming Early February 2010: a website dedicated exclusively to bringing you the best aquarium & pond supplies for LESS! http://www.FosterAndSmithAquatics.com ... but it still redirects back to the main DrsFosterSmith.com for now.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46262	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/25/2010
Subject: OT: FEDEx to China

http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t o-China--82632017.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp Tai Shan's Getting Fed-Ex'ed to China Wow, they really can ship anything. By CARISSA DIMARGO Updated 8:06 PM EST, Mon, Jan 25, 2010 Smithsonian Institution T-minus 10 days to departure. Tai Shan's launch date has been set (Thursday, Feb. 4), but more importantly, his travel method has been determined. And yes, he's going via Fed Ex. Nope, it's not just for that urgent last-minute gift you ordered on Amazon; D.C.'s very own Butterstick is headed back to China in a white cardboard envelope. (OK, that's all true except for the white cardboard envelope part.) The good news? While the District collectively weeps for the loss of its panda kiddo, Tai Shan will be living it up. He'll be traveling with a two-year-old female panda coming from Zoo Atlanta. Spring break!!!! Of course, once Tai Shan gets to China, it's time to get down to Serious Business. The reason he's going back to China? It's time to settle down and start breeding. Maybe someday he can tell his offspring all about the time he got mailed. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46263	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention

I’ve been meaning to forward this to the list for some time, ,but just never seemed to do so. This is where to get information about and where to register for the NEC convention the last weekend of February. \\Steve// To: Tropical Fish Hobbyist Subject: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention <http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention/> none The Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies 35th Annual Tropical Fish Convention! February 26-28, 2010 at a new location: the Crowne Plaza Hotel in Cromwell, CT! This email IS your NEC Convention Registration Flier! Unless you request us to mail you a paper flier, we will only notify you via email about the NEC Convention this year! Go to our website to Register now! Early Registration Prices END February 1st! Click here to <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Item id=96&vmcchk=1&Itemid=96> REGISTER ONLINE (and pay online) for the 35th Annual NEC Convention or Click here to <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/images/stories/2010_Forms/Registrati onForm.doc> DOWNLOAD A REGISTRATION FORM to print and mail to us along with a check. Click here to <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/index.php?option=com_content&view=ar ticle&id=57&Itemid=73> RESERVE A ROOM AT THE CROWNE PLAZA HOTEL at our special rate of $94/night plus tax. All convention information can be found on our Convention Website <http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention> www.northeastcouncil.org/convention including Speakers, Schedules, Sunday Auction forms, Registration Options, everything you need to know about the convention! Please forward this email to your local pet store and anyone you think might be interested in knowing about this great event! Please contact us if you have any questions, require additional information, or want to receive the convention flier via the US Mail. See you at the Convention! Janine Banks Convention Chair <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... (802) 372-8716 Leslie Dick Registration Chair <mailto:ldick@...> ldick@... (203)748-7800 Contact <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... if you have any questions. We will only be sending a few periodic emails between now and the end of February and your email address will only be used by the NEC. However, if you wish to unsubscribe, just send your request to <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... and we will remove you from the emails. ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46264	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China

I would guess that they can handle a box of fish OK.   Bill --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 11:10 PM http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t o-China--82632017.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp Tai Shan's Getting Fed-Ex'ed to China Wow, they really can ship anything. By CARISSA DIMARGO Updated 8:06 PM EST, Mon, Jan 25, 2010 Smithsonian Institution T-minus 10 days to departure. Tai Shan's launch date has been set (Thursday, Feb. 4), but more importantly, his travel method has been determined. And yes, he's going via Fed Ex. Nope, it's not just for that urgent last-minute gift you ordered on Amazon; D.C.'s very own Butterstick is headed back to China in a white cardboard envelope. (OK, that's all true except for the white cardboard envelope part.) The good news? While the District collectively weeps for the loss of its panda kiddo, Tai Shan will be living it up. He'll be traveling with a two-year-old female panda coming from Zoo Atlanta. Spring break!!!! Of course, once Tai Shan gets to China, it's time to get down to Serious Business. The reason he's going back to China? It's time to settle down and start breeding. Maybe someday he can tell his offspring all about the time he got mailed. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46265	From: William M	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention

I am on the conservation committee and will welcome any donations of fish for the worthwhile project. This is one way that aquarium keepers can make a difference by helping to conserve fish and their habitants. Last year we had a lady donate a lot of books for the silent auction and it helped to raise many more dollars for our conservation project.If nothing is done then we might be left wondering why we can no longer get any wild caught fish for our aquariums. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I've been meaning to forward this to the list for some time, ,but just never > seemed to do so. This is where to get information about and where to > register for the NEC convention the last weekend of February. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > To: Tropical Fish Hobbyist > Subject: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention > > > > <http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention/> none > > The Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies > > 35th Annual Tropical Fish Convention! > > February 26-28, 2010 at a new location: the Crowne Plaza Hotel > > in Cromwell, CT! > > > > This email IS your NEC Convention Registration Flier! Unless you request us > to mail you a paper flier, we will only notify you via email about the NEC > Convention this year! > > > > Go to our website to Register now! Early Registration Prices END February > 1st! > > Click here to > <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Item > id=96&vmcchk=1&Itemid=96> REGISTER ONLINE (and pay online) for the 35th > Annual NEC Convention or > > Click here to > <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/images/stories/2010_Forms/Registrati > onForm.doc> DOWNLOAD A REGISTRATION FORM to print and mail to us along with > a check. > > > > Click here to > <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/index.php?option=com_content&view=ar > ticle&id=57&Itemid=73> RESERVE A ROOM AT THE CROWNE PLAZA HOTEL at our > special rate of $94/night plus tax. > > > > All convention information can be found on our Convention Website > <http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention> > www.northeastcouncil.org/convention including Speakers, Schedules, Sunday > Auction forms, Registration Options, everything you need to know about the > convention! > > > > Please forward this email to your local pet store and anyone you think might > be interested in knowing about this great event! Please contact us if you > have any questions, require additional information, or want to receive the > convention flier via the US Mail. > > > > See you at the Convention! > > > > Janine Banks > > Convention Chair > > <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... > > (802) 372-8716 > > > > Leslie Dick > > Registration Chair > > <mailto:ldick@...> ldick@... > > (203)748-7800 > > > > Contact <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... if you have any > questions. > > We will only be sending a few periodic emails between now and the end of > February and your email address will only be used by the NEC. However, if > you wish to unsubscribe, just send your request to > <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... and we will remove you from > the emails. > > > > ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China

Well... I'm not positive about that. Panda's are warm-blooded, fish are not. Panda's have lots of hair to keep them warm, fish don't... except for the elusive and thought to be extinct http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fish _full.jpg I doubt that the cargo hold areas of FEDEX planes are climate controlled although they may have some part of the cargo hold area that can be... but I doubt they care about putting our fish in those areas. All that said, yes they can handle a box of fish OK but the shipper still needs to insulate the box and add heat packs, as needed, to insure the fish do not face the extreme colds in the upper atmosphere... or even in some ground level climates. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China I would guess that they can handle a box of fish OK.   Bill --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 11:10 PM http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t o-China--82632017.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp Tai Shan's Getting Fed-Ex'ed to China Wow, they really can ship anything. By CARISSA DIMARGO Updated 8:06 PM EST, Mon, Jan 25, 2010 Smithsonian Institution T-minus 10 days to departure. Tai Shan's launch date has been set (Thursday, Feb. 4), but more importantly, his travel method has been determined. And yes, he's going via Fed Ex. Nope, it's not just for that urgent last-minute gift you ordered on Amazon; D.C.'s very own Butterstick is headed back to China in a white cardboard envelope. (OK, that's all true except for the white cardboard envelope part.) The good news? While the District collectively weeps for the loss of its panda kiddo, Tai Shan will be living it up. He'll be traveling with a two-year-old female panda coming from Zoo Atlanta. Spring break!!!! Of course, once Tai Shan gets to China, it's time to get down to Serious Business. The reason he's going back to China? It's time to settle down and start breeding. Maybe someday he can tell his offspring all about the time he got mailed. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46267	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China

I'm sure that Panda was in a climate controlled cargo area inside a big crate of some sort while traveling most likely sedated as well. Fish don't get these luxuries ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well... I'm not positive about that. > > Panda's are warm-blooded, fish are not. > > Panda's have lots of hair to keep them warm, fish don't... except for the > elusive and thought to be extinct > http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fish > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fish> > _full.jpg > > I doubt that the cargo hold areas of FEDEX planes are climate controlled > although they may have some part of the cargo hold area that can be... > but I > doubt they care about putting our fish in those areas. > > All that said, yes they can handle a box of fish OK but the shipper still > needs to insulate the box and add heat packs, as needed, to insure the > fish > do not face the extreme colds in the upper atmosphere... or even in some > ground level climates. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > I would guess that they can handle a box of fish OK. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 11:10 PM > > http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t> > o-China--82632017.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily > > http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp> > > Tai Shan's Getting Fed-Ex'ed to China > Wow, they really can ship anything. > By CARISSA DIMARGO > Updated 8:06 PM EST, Mon, Jan 25, 2010 > > Smithsonian Institution > > T-minus 10 days to departure. Tai Shan's launch date has been set > (Thursday, > Feb. 4), but more importantly, his travel method has been determined. And > yes, he's going via Fed Ex. > > Nope, it's not just for that urgent last-minute gift you ordered on > Amazon; > D.C.'s very own Butterstick is headed back to China in a white cardboard > envelope. (OK, that's all true except for the white cardboard envelope > part.) > > The good news? While the District collectively weeps for the loss of its > panda kiddo, Tai Shan will be living it up. He'll be traveling with a > two-year-old female panda coming from Zoo Atlanta. Spring break!!!! > > Of course, once Tai Shan gets to China, it's time to get down to Serious > Business. The reason he's going back to China? It's time to settle > down and > start breeding. Maybe someday he can tell his offspring all about the time > he got mailed. > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46268	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China

Well.. the elusive and thought to be extinct hippie fish might be sedated... from smoking some algae... according to this site. LOL http://fishwrangler.wikia.com/wiki/Hippie_Fish Description: Between their peaceful personalities and algae smoking, Hippie Phish give little fight on the reel-in. Although dwindling in population, you may catch one coming up for a midnight munchie. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China I'm sure that Panda was in a climate controlled cargo area inside a big crate of some sort while traveling most likely sedated as well. Fish don't get these luxuries ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well... I'm not positive about that. > > Panda's are warm-blooded, fish are not. > > Panda's have lots of hair to keep them warm, fish don't... except for > the elusive and thought to be extinct > http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippi > e_fish > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hipp > ie_fish> > _full.jpg > > I doubt that the cargo hold areas of FEDEX planes are climate > controlled although they may have some part of the cargo hold area that can be... > but I > doubt they care about putting our fish in those areas. > > All that said, yes they can handle a box of fish OK but the shipper > still needs to insulate the box and add heat packs, as needed, to > insure the fish do not face the extreme colds in the upper > atmosphere... or even in some ground level climates. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > I would guess that they can handle a box of fish OK. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 11:10 PM > > http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed- > Exed-t > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed > -Exed-t> o-China--82632017.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily > > http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp> > > Tai Shan's Getting Fed-Ex'ed to China > Wow, they really can ship anything. > By CARISSA DIMARGO > Updated 8:06 PM EST, Mon, Jan 25, 2010 > > Smithsonian Institution > > T-minus 10 days to departure. Tai Shan's launch date has been set > (Thursday, Feb. 4), but more importantly, his travel method has been > determined. And yes, he's going via Fed Ex. > > Nope, it's not just for that urgent last-minute gift you ordered on > Amazon; D.C.'s very own Butterstick is headed back to China in a white > cardboard envelope. (OK, that's all true except for the white > cardboard envelope > part.) > > The good news? While the District collectively weeps for the loss of > its panda kiddo, Tai Shan will be living it up. He'll be traveling > with a two-year-old female panda coming from Zoo Atlanta. Spring break!!!! > > Of course, once Tai Shan gets to China, it's time to get down to > Serious Business. The reason he's going back to China? It's time to > settle down and start breeding. Maybe someday he can tell his > offspring all about the time he got mailed. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46269	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Sorry for the long delay in replying. Life got busy and I've been fighting a bug since the day after Christmas. For some reason, YahooGroups is not giving me access to the Aquatic Life photo pages. Well it does for about a minute and then pops me out of the group. My KH wants to sit near zero without plants, so maybe adding them is not such a great idea. I've even put cuttlebone in the filter and haven't seen much of a change in readings, so I would need to keep up the water changes anyway just to keep the pH from crashing, as it does tend to sink some between weekly changes. Well darn! My discretionary money will probably be going for a TNR project on our neighborhood feral cat colony anyway. I thought it was just the mom and pop of the kitten I raised last summer, but now there are at least six other cats living outdoors within a two house radius of us. None of them resemble "my" ferals in any way. While I DO appreciate the fact that I haven't seen a wild rat in over a year, I don't like the idea of finding dead and dying kittens when the group outgrows local resources. I was just lucky to find Mufasa while he was still healthy enough to save. Soooo I guess I'll play with aquaponics some other time, although I might try Eric's HOB idea with a baby spider plant or two, just for the fun of it. Ooooh! YahooGroups finally let me in long enough to upload my pics. I'm still open to suggestions on aquaponics setups. I just may not find the time or money to do it real soon. And I need to figure out how to keep the GH and KH up, too. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/699297662/pic/list My folder is DebR's Goldfish. Yes, that's a Christmas tree still up on Jan 25th. I like looking at it in the evening when there aren't any frantic holiday preparations to distract me. It comes down this week, though. :-( DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure if you're checking your GH and KH but the more "life forms" you have drawing off the ecology of the tank, the faster the KH will be used up and the faster the minerals that make up your GH will diminish... as well as all of the other macro nutrients, vitamins and minerals that we can not easily test for. Yes, lots of plants will keep the nitrates from climbing as fast and possibly keep them near zero for the life of the tank but at a certain point, the KH level will get so low, the pH of the tank will crash which could kill off all of the fish. Further, the hormone levels in the tank will continually increase so if all of your fish are not full size, they will get stunted and even full size fish will feel increasing levels of stress due to feeling more overcrowded as the hormone levels rise. All this said, unless someone is doing PWC's on a regular basis, even a heavily planted tank can suffer water quality issues... often the kind that does not even show up on our tests. This is why it's good to test your tank for everything (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, etc.) on a regular basis until you *learn* your tank and it's ecology... but yes, if all of the other water parameters are staying in good shape between PWC's, the plants will keep the nitrates lower, CO2 lower and increase the O2 levels which are all better for the fish... so that could extend the time period in between PWC's... although I do not recommend it. Fresh clean water is still the best thing we can ever give our fish. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts I use pothos in my 2 emperor 400 HOB filters and they are growinglike wildfire. I have also noticed that I can go longer between water changes without negatively effecting the water chemistry. I also have a pretty heavily planted tank. Eric

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46270	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

What browser are you using? I use IE8 and rarely have problems although when trying a message search on Yahoo Groups it will often give poor and incomplete results but never any problems with the photo pages. I just use an advanced Google search to search the messages of the particular group I'm searching. Did you break up the cuttlebone into pieces? A whole one would work some but breaking it up gives a lot more surface area for the water to go through and around to help it dissolve. Also, what is your pH? Lower pH water (acidic) will cause it to dissolve at a slightly faster rate than higher pH water (basic). Depending on your filter system, you could put the pieces in the end flow of your water before it returns to the tank or you might have to put it in the reservoir of an HOB filter. I was wondering about the Christmas tree... but next time, turn off Jingle Bell Rock while you're snapping photos. ;-) If your pH is staying stable, it could be a false reading on your KH level. You would have to get it double checked to be more certain of the level. There are also other easy ways to raise the KH dosing with Baking Soda but the *natural* way of using cuttlebone or crushed coral and letting it dissolve as needed is simpler. Here's a simple baking soda calculator and info. Read ALL of the links too. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Sorry for the long delay in replying. Life got busy and I've been fighting a bug since the day after Christmas. For some reason, YahooGroups is not giving me access to the Aquatic Life photo pages. Well it does for about a minute and then pops me out of the group. My KH wants to sit near zero without plants, so maybe adding them is not such a great idea. I've even put cuttlebone in the filter and haven't seen much of a change in readings, so I would need to keep up the water changes anyway just to keep the pH from crashing, as it does tend to sink some between weekly changes. Well darn! My discretionary money will probably be going for a TNR project on our neighborhood feral cat colony anyway. I thought it was just the mom and pop of the kitten I raised last summer, but now there are at least six other cats living outdoors within a two house radius of us. None of them resemble "my" ferals in any way. While I DO appreciate the fact that I haven't seen a wild rat in over a year, I don't like the idea of finding dead and dying kittens when the group outgrows local resources. I was just lucky to find Mufasa while he was still healthy enough to save. Soooo I guess I'll play with aquaponics some other time, although I might try Eric's HOB idea with a baby spider plant or two, just for the fun of it. Ooooh! YahooGroups finally let me in long enough to upload my pics. I'm still open to suggestions on aquaponics setups. I just may not find the time or money to do it real soon. And I need to figure out how to keep the GH and KH up, too. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/699297662/pic/list My folder is DebR's Goldfish. Yes, that's a Christmas tree still up on Jan 25th. I like looking at it in the evening when there aren't any frantic holiday preparations to distract me. It comes down this week, though. :-( DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure if you're checking your GH and KH but the more "life forms" you have drawing off the ecology of the tank, the faster the KH will be used up and the faster the minerals that make up your GH will diminish... as well as all of the other macro nutrients, vitamins and minerals that we can not easily test for. Yes, lots of plants will keep the nitrates from climbing as fast and possibly keep them near zero for the life of the tank but at a certain point, the KH level will get so low, the pH of the tank will crash which could kill off all of the fish. Further, the hormone levels in the tank will continually increase so if all of your fish are not full size, they will get stunted and even full size fish will feel increasing levels of stress due to feeling more overcrowded as the hormone levels rise. All this said, unless someone is doing PWC's on a regular basis, even a heavily planted tank can suffer water quality issues... often the kind that does not even show up on our tests. This is why it's good to test your tank for everything (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, etc.) on a regular basis until you *learn* your tank and it's ecology... but yes, if all of the other water parameters are staying in good shape between PWC's, the plants will keep the nitrates lower, CO2 lower and increase the O2 levels which are all better for the fish... so that could extend the time period in between PWC's... although I do not recommend it. Fresh clean water is still the best thing we can ever give our fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts I use pothos in my 2 emperor 400 HOB filters and they are growinglike wildfire. I have also noticed that I can go longer between water changes without negatively effecting the water chemistry. I also have a pretty heavily planted tank. Eric

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46271	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Yahoo Mail/Lenny

Hi Len,   You just sent this in a message a while ago:  "What browser are you using?  I use IE8 and rarely have problems although when trying a message search on Yahoo Groups it will often give poor and incomplete results but never any problems with the photo pages.  I just use an advanced Goggle search to search the messages of the particular group I'm searching". Can you tell us how you set this up?  I was on group the other day trying to research an old thread and did not fair out too well.  This would have helped a lot.  We discussed this before, but I should have asked you the "How" part then.   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46272	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Yahoo Mail/Lenny

Well, there's a couple of ways to do this. If you go to a regular Google page http://www.Google.com, then click on Advanced Search (link right next to search field), then down near the bottom of that page, the last field says, "Search within a site or domain:", so in that field, type or copy/paste http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife, which is the main URL for the AquaticLife group (other groups may vary and even the AL group sometimes will add a "pet" right behind the http:// but I leave the "pet" or "tech" or whatever out of the URL since that is not the main URL and might limit your search results). Then above that, in the other fields, fill in your search terms and limiters if any are used. If you'll remember this next step, you can just use a regular Google search and also type your key words in a regular Google search field, followed by "site:(URL)" (excluding quotation marks and parenthesis... see next paragraph), and get the same results. The search for the word - Lenny - in the AquaticLife group would look like this... Lenny site:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Once you get your search returns, which will be limited to only webpages that have "Lenny" on them in the "AquaticLife" group ONLY, you can click on "Show Options" link to sort the search results by date, etc. OR you may just see the topic that you were looking for in the search returns on the Google page and you can just click on that. I have my Google searches set up to show 50 results per page and usually anything I might be looking for will be on that first page of hits. Eventually, Yahoo will get their Groups search feature working again and this will not be needed but until then, there's Google. It's been a known issue for over a year now so no telling when they'll get it working right. I guess other search engines have this same capability but I feel that Google is the best and so do many others. You can follow Yahoo Group's issues by reading the Group's Blog at http://wwww.YGroupsBlog.com and you can subscribe to get emails of any new blogs. This is what I do to see what they might be up to since I own/moderate a few groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:15 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Yahoo Mail/Lenny Hi Len,   You just sent this in a message a while ago:  "What browser are you using?  I use IE8 and rarely have problems although when trying a message search on Yahoo Groups it will often give poor and incomplete results but never any problems with the photo pages.  I just use an advanced Goggle search to search the messages of the particular group I'm searching". Can you tell us how you set this up?  I was on group the other day trying to research an old thread and did not fair out too well.  This would have helped a lot.  We discussed this before, but I should have asked you the "How" part then.   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46273	From: yesjess2001	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: female betta help

Hi everyone, I usually just lurk...and this is a very helpful group! When I bought a male betta a year ago they were giving a female away for free. Long story short, after he tried to kill her, he remained in the 10 gal, and she was put in the commnity 55 gal. In the past month or so, her abdomen has become tremendously engorged with what I presume are eggs. Previously, she would fill up a little, but the situation would resolve itself. Is there anything I can do for her, or is she a goner? TIA Donna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46274	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: female betta help

Hi Donna, you might want to look over this site on info about constipation in Betta's (in particular), they are prone to this issue from over feeding. http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/constipation.php Check the pictures and see if your betta looks like those ones. She shouldn't be filling up with eggs, as I have never had a female betta do that when kept in a community tank, but I'm sure there are exceptions to this ;) LOL. If your betta is constipated we can give you a few ideas to help her out. First of all feed her less, or give the whole tank much smaller meals just do them more often throughout the day, and try not to feed your betta. This is common with betta's that are kept with other fish as they have a VERY small stomach and it's very easy to over feed them, compared to other fish. The easiest way to treat constipation is first of all, if you can isolate your female betta in the tank (perhaps use one of those breeder net/cups that hang on the side of the tank) that way you can make sure she's not over eating with the other fish when you feed the rest of the tank, and then give her a day or so to empty out her system a bit, then feed her some insides of squished/mashed peas, you may have to wiggle it on the end of a toothpick or something to get her to notice it and eat it, as my betta is very picky about whether his food moves or not ;) LOL. Amber yesjess2001 wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I usually just lurk...and this is a very helpful group! > > When I bought a male betta a year ago they were giving a female away > for free. Long story short, after he tried to kill her, he remained in > the 10 gal, and she was put in the commnity 55 gal. In the past month > or so, her abdomen has become tremendously engorged with what I > presume are eggs. Previously, she would fill up a little, but the > situation would resolve itself. Is there anything I can do for her, or > is she a goner? > > TIA > > Donna > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46275	From: greyclouds99	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

I was actually asking about using the silicone to glue the gravel on Mike's bow, my friend. would a powerful hair drier replace the heat gun? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's best to buy Aquarium Silicone that is non-toxic to fish once it's cured > but your tank would have to be broken down and dried out before doing that. > The method that Mike (Deneerz) suggested could be done while the tank is > full and if you read my follow-up, I think adding the side braces first > would make the arch not have to be so much of an arch and it could be > further back in the tank. > > Another thing that would work is buying some 1/8" plexiglass and using a > heat gun to bend a 6" wide strip into an L so that 4" is on the bottom and > 2" sticks up and that could be slide under existing gravel and the weight of > the gravel would keep it in place... kind of like how the cheap metal book > end holders work where the books help hold the book end in place. This > would allow for a straight across divider... although the arched divider > probably looks nice too and if you used the same heat gun method to bend the > plexiglass in a couple of spots, the divider wouldn't be a perfect arch and > would have some curves to it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 11:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate > > Will a regular silicone pistol work for this purpose? Is it non-toxic to > fish? > > Brilliant idea, by the way. > I came across a DIY article about making pleco caves with PVC pipes cut in > half and coated with silicone and gravel, just the same way you described. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Tristan, > > > > A very old aquarium shop in San Francisco had an inexpensive way of > > doing this. They would get a piece of acrylic about 2 inches wide and > > longer than the width of the tank.They would place it in a Bow shape, > > inside of the bow facing the front of the tank, and on the back side > > they would add the substrate. This way they could have the plants in > > the back and an open area in the front for the fish to swim or display. > > You can obviously add gravel to the front if you want. If the acrylic > > bothers you you can place rocks in front of it, or silicone when dry > > and coat it with the same substrate you will be using. Get really > > creative and adhere some of the mesh they use for moss plants and > > start moss gowing on it. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: greyclouds99 <greyclouds99@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:24 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate > > > >  > > Thanks for your inputs. I piled the gravel in the back to hold the > > live plants, and made a half and inch thickness at the front, but I > > still don't know what to put as a barrier, all the readily made ones > > seemed too big for the 10 gal. I'm thinking of cutting a drift wood > > into several small pieces and arrange them like a fence. > > > > Indeed, the gravel tends to level out with time and fish movement, > > that's what always happens in my 34 gal, I always make it 1" at front > > and 2" at the back, and it always levels out when I come to vacuum it. > > > > Tristan > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" steve@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Tristan, > > > > > > Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. For > > reference, > the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. > > > > > > If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, all > > you would > need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very thin > > layer, maybe 1/8-1/4". > > > However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This > > complicates > things a bit, but it also allows you to do some nifty > > stuff with the amount > of gravel used. > > > > > > For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank not > > used for > plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning > > easier, and build a small > terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") where > > the plants would be located. You > could start very low at one side > > of the tank, and gradually build the depth > to the other side, and > > plants could then be spread out a bit, with varying > depths of > > gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants are to be > > > placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. > > > > > > Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it > > seems the > gravel has a tendency to level out over time with > > nothing to hold it into > place. When building the terrace(s), you > > can hold the gravel in place by > building a wall of rock or > > driftwood and then add the appropriate amount of > gravel to the > > appropriate side. > > > > > > I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if you > > sit and > think about it for a while. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM > To: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > > > Hello, > What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 > > gal? It's fine gravel > "not sand like though", and it's supposed > > to hold very few small plants. > > > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta > > is > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46276	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

Well, if you just make the bow, it would bend into a bow without a problem and no heat needed. If you wanted to add some other curves into the bow, you would need the heat. I'm not sure if a hair dryer would work. Heat guns put out a lot hotter temps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_gun but I guess you could try. Does the user of the hair dryer have Phyllis Diller hair? That might tell you if their hair dryer is powerful enough. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate I was actually asking about using the silicone to glue the gravel on Mike's bow, my friend. would a powerful hair drier replace the heat gun? Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's best to buy Aquarium Silicone that is non-toxic to fish once it's > cured but your tank would have to be broken down and dried out before doing that. > The method that Mike (Deneerz) suggested could be done while the tank > is full and if you read my follow-up, I think adding the side braces > first would make the arch not have to be so much of an arch and it > could be further back in the tank. > > Another thing that would work is buying some 1/8" plexiglass and using > a heat gun to bend a 6" wide strip into an L so that 4" is on the > bottom and 2" sticks up and that could be slide under existing gravel > and the weight of the gravel would keep it in place... kind of like > how the cheap metal book end holders work where the books help hold > the book end in place. This would allow for a straight across > divider... although the arched divider probably looks nice too and if > you used the same heat gun method to bend the plexiglass in a couple > of spots, the divider wouldn't be a perfect arch and would have some curves to it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 11:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate > > Will a regular silicone pistol work for this purpose? Is it non-toxic > to fish? > > Brilliant idea, by the way. > I came across a DIY article about making pleco caves with PVC pipes > cut in half and coated with silicone and gravel, just the same way you described. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Hi Tristan, > > > > A very old aquarium shop in San Francisco had an inexpensive way of > > doing this. They would get a piece of acrylic about 2 inches wide > > and longer than the width of the tank.They would place it in a Bow > > shape, inside of the bow facing the front of the tank, and on the > > back side they would add the substrate. This way they could have the > > plants in the back and an open area in the front for the fish to swim or display. > > You can obviously add gravel to the front if you want. If the > > acrylic bothers you you can place rocks in front of it, or silicone > > when dry and coat it with the same substrate you will be using. Get > > really creative and adhere some of the mesh they use for moss plants > > and start moss gowing on it. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: greyclouds99 <greyclouds99@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:24 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate > > > > Â > > Thanks for your inputs. I piled the gravel in the back to hold the > > live plants, and made a half and inch thickness at the front, but I > > still don't know what to put as a barrier, all the readily made ones > > seemed too big for the 10 gal. I'm thinking of cutting a drift wood > > into several small pieces and arrange them like a fence. > > > > Indeed, the gravel tends to level out with time and fish movement, > > that's what always happens in my 34 gal, I always make it 1" at > > front and 2" at the back, and it always levels out when I come to vacuum it. > > > > Tristan > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" steve@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Tristan, > > > > > > Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. > > For reference, > the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. > > > > > > If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, > > all you would > need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very > > thin layer, maybe 1/8-1/4". > > > However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This > > complicates > things a bit, but it also allows you to do some > > nifty stuff with the amount > of gravel used. > > > > > > For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank > > not used for > plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning > > easier, and build a small > terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") > > where the plants would be located. You > could start very low at > > one side of the tank, and gradually build the depth > to the > > other side, and plants could then be spread out a bit, with varying > > > depths of gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants > > are to be > placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. > > > > > > Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it > > seems the > gravel has a tendency to level out over time with > > nothing to hold it into > place. When building the terrace(s), > > you can hold the gravel in place by > building a wall of rock or > > driftwood and then add the appropriate amount of > gravel to the > > appropriate side. > > > > > > I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if > > you sit and > think about it for a while. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM > To: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > > > Hello, > What would be the ideal substrate thickness > > for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel > "not sand like though", and it's > > supposed to hold very few small plants. > > > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my > > Betta is > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > > > > > Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46277	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

Come one Lenny, you surprise me. I was certain I was going to be just typing the same thing as you and that it was already on your page ;) I should set up one sometime to take pics of it. Too many water changes to do in the mean time. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:34 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate   That's a great idea and since you don't have to use any silicone to hold it in place, someone can add this to their existing tank and then spoon out the gravel in the front until they get to their desired look. This could probably also be done if someone doesn't want an arching landscape coming all the way to the front corners by using a piece of plexiglass that only goes from end to end and then using short strips of plexiglass on each side in the front and then putting the arch so that it wedges against those short strips to keep the arch from sliding forward. I tried Googling for a webpage that shows this DIY technique (to save in my Favorites) but couldn't find anything about it. I'll have to rely on Bill's memory for this idea... uh oh... that might not work so well. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPERBOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINT? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate Hi Tristan, A very old aquarium shop in San Francisco had an inexpensive way of doing this. They would get a piece of acrylic about 2 inches wide and longer than the width of the tank.They would place it in a Bow shape, inside of the bow facing the front of the tank, and on the back side they would add the substrate. This way they could have the plants in the back and an open area in the front for the fish to swim or display. You can obviously add gravel to the front if you want. If the acrylic bothers you you can place rocks in front of it, or silicone when dry and coat it with the same substrate you will be using. Get really creative and adhere some of the mesh they use for moss plants and start moss gowing on it. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: greyclouds99 <greyclouds99@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:24 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate   Thanks for your inputs. I piled the gravel in the back to hold the live plants, and made a half and inch thickness at the front, but I still don't know what to put as a barrier, all the readily made ones seemed too big for the 10 gal. I'm thinking of cutting a drift wood into several small pieces and arrange them like a fence. Indeed, the gravel tends to level out with time and fish movement, that's what always happens in my 34 gal, I always make it 1" at front and 2" at the back, and it always levels out when I come to vacuum it. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Tristan, > > Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. For reference, > the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. > > If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, all you would > need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very thin layer, maybe 1/8-1/4". > However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This complicates > things a bit, but it also allows you to do some nifty stuff with the amount > of gravel used. > > For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank not used for > plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning easier, and build a small > terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") where the plants would be located. You > could start very low at one side of the tank, and gradually build the depth > to the other side, and plants could then be spread out a bit, with varying > depths of gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants are to be > placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. > > Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it seems the > gravel has a tendency to level out over time with nothing to hold it into > place. When building the terrace(s), you can hold the gravel in place by > building a wall of rock or driftwood and then add the appropriate amount of > gravel to the appropriate side. > > I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if you sit and > think about it for a while. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > Hello, > What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's fine gravel > "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small plants. > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta is > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46278	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate

I am almost positive Lenny answered this one but just in case... The pistol or gun will work fine but make very certain you have Aquarium safe silicone sealer. Almost every kind of I have seen in the hardware stores has an mildew inhibitor or other ingredients deadly to our fish. There was a particulat one I used to recommend as being safe as I used it but now will not recommend as I have not bought it in years and do not know the current ingredients. Some of the online fish retailers sell it in tube form for the pistol or gun. http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCatalog/ctl3684/cp18273/si1378883/cl1/allglass_silicone_sealant_10_oz_clear?&query=silicone&queryType=0&hits=12&offset=0 http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/211961/product.web http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3963 I should buy some of this stuff, I have a few glass tanks to reseal. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: greyclouds99 <greyclouds99@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 25, 2010 9:02 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate   Will a regular silicone pistol work for this purpose? Is it non-toxic to fish? Brilliant idea, by the way. I came across a DIY article about making pleco caves with PVC pipes cut in half and coated with silicone and gravel, just the same way you described. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi Tristan, > > A very old aquarium shop in San Francisco had an inexpensive way of > doing this. They would get a piece of acrylic about 2 inches wide and > longer than the width of the tank.They would place it in a Bow shape, > inside of the bow facing the front of the tank, and on the back side > they would add the substrate. This way they could have the plants in > the back and an open area in the front for the fish to swim or display. > You can obviously add gravel to the front if you want. If the acrylic > bothers you you can place rocks in front of it, or silicone when dry > and coat it with the same substrate you will be using. Get really > creative and adhere some of the mesh they use for moss plants and start > moss gowing on it. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: greyclouds99 <greyclouds99@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, Jan 24, 2010 1:24 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Substrate > >   > Thanks for your inputs. I piled the gravel in the back to hold the live > plants, and made a half and inch thickness at the front, but I still > don't know what to put as a barrier, all the readily made ones seemed > too big for the 10 gal. I'm thinking of cutting a drift wood into > several small pieces and arrange them like a fence. > > Indeed, the gravel tends to level out with time and fish movement, > that's what always happens in my 34 gal, I always make it 1" at front > and 2" at the back, and it always levels out when I come to vacuum it. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" steve@ > wrote: > > > > Tristan, > > > > Sounds like you are talking about #1 gravel or, perhaps, #2. For > reference, > > the normal size sold for aquariums is #3. > > > > If you just wanted something to cover the bottom of the tank, all > you would > > need would be enough to cover the bottom, a very thin layer, maybe > 1/8-1/4". > > However, you mention you wish to use some plants as well. This > complicates > > things a bit, but it also allows you to do some nifty stuff with > the amount > > of gravel used. > > > > For instance, you could just barely cover he area of the tank not > used for > > plants with a minimum of gravel, to make cleaning easier, and > build a small > > terrace with deeper gravel (1-2") where the plants would be > located. You > > could start very low at one side of the tank, and gradually build > the depth > > to the other side, and plants could then be spread out a bit, with > varying > > depths of gravel. You could even mound the gravel where plants are > to be > > placed, with very little gravel elsewhere. > > > > Frankly, I have found the terracing idea to work the best, a it > seems the > > gravel has a tendency to level out over time with nothing to hold > it into > > place. When building the terrace(s), you can hold the gravel in > place by > > building a wall of rock or driftwood and then add the appropriate > amount of > > gravel to the appropriate side. > > > > I'm sure you probably could come up with some other ideas, if you > sit and > > think about it for a while. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:16 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate > > > > Hello, > > What would be the ideal substrate thickness for a 10 gal? It's > fine gravel > > "not sand like though", and it's supposed to hold very few small > plants. > > The tank is for a betta. I'm setting it up right now and my Betta > is > > inpatiently waiting for your reply please! > > > > Tristan > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46279	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China

Amber, You might want to read the story. Tai Shan does not leave until February 4. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China I'm sure that Panda was in a climate controlled cargo area inside a big crate of some sort while traveling most likely sedated as well. Fish don't get these luxuries ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well... I'm not positive about that. > > Panda's are warm-blooded, fish are not. > > Panda's have lots of hair to keep them warm, fish don't... except for the > elusive and thought to be extinct > http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fish > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fis h> > _full.jpg > > I doubt that the cargo hold areas of FEDEX planes are climate controlled > although they may have some part of the cargo hold area that can be... > but I > doubt they care about putting our fish in those areas. > > All that said, yes they can handle a box of fish OK but the shipper still > needs to insulate the box and add heat packs, as needed, to insure the > fish > do not face the extreme colds in the upper atmosphere... or even in some > ground level climates. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > I would guess that they can handle a box of fish OK. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 11:10 PM > > http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed- t> > o-China--82632017.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily > > http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp> > > Tai Shan's Getting Fed-Ex'ed to China > Wow, they really can ship anything. > By CARISSA DIMARGO > Updated 8:06 PM EST, Mon, Jan 25, 2010 > > Smithsonian Institution > > T-minus 10 days to departure. Tai Shan's launch date has been set > (Thursday, > Feb. 4), but more importantly, his travel method has been determined. And > yes, he's going via Fed Ex. > > Nope, it's not just for that urgent last-minute gift you ordered on > Amazon; > D.C.'s very own Butterstick is headed back to China in a white cardboard > envelope. (OK, that's all true except for the white cardboard envelope > part.) > > The good news? While the District collectively weeps for the loss of its > panda kiddo, Tai Shan will be living it up. He'll be traveling with a > two-year-old female panda coming from Zoo Atlanta. Spring break!!!! > > Of course, once Tai Shan gets to China, it's time to get down to Serious > Business. The reason he's going back to China? It's time to settle > down and > start breeding. Maybe someday he can tell his offspring all about the time > he got mailed. > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46280	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China

I saw that after I sent my post, either way it still stands that they will ship the animal much different than live fish would be shipped ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > You might want to read the story. Tai Shan does not leave until > February 4. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > I'm sure that Panda was in a climate controlled cargo area inside a big > crate of some sort while traveling most likely sedated as well. Fish > don't get these luxuries ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well... I'm not positive about that. > > > > Panda's are warm-blooded, fish are not. > > > > Panda's have lots of hair to keep them warm, fish don't... except > for the > > elusive and thought to be extinct > > > http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fish > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fish> > > > > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fis > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fis> > h> > > _full.jpg > > > > I doubt that the cargo hold areas of FEDEX planes are climate controlled > > although they may have some part of the cargo hold area that can be... > > but I > > doubt they care about putting our fish in those areas. > > > > All that said, yes they can handle a box of fish OK but the shipper > still > > needs to insulate the box and add heat packs, as needed, to insure the > > fish > > do not face the extreme colds in the upper atmosphere... or even in some > > ground level climates. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > > > I would guess that they can handle a box of fish OK. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 11:10 PM > > > > > http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t> > > > > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed- > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-> > t> > > o-China--82632017.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp> > <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp>> > > > > Tai Shan's Getting Fed-Ex'ed to China > > Wow, they really can ship anything. > > By CARISSA DIMARGO > > Updated 8:06 PM EST, Mon, Jan 25, 2010 > > > > Smithsonian Institution > > > > T-minus 10 days to departure. Tai Shan's launch date has been set > > (Thursday, > > Feb. 4), but more importantly, his travel method has been > determined. And > > yes, he's going via Fed Ex. > > > > Nope, it's not just for that urgent last-minute gift you ordered on > > Amazon; > > D.C.'s very own Butterstick is headed back to China in a white cardboard > > envelope. (OK, that's all true except for the white cardboard envelope > > part.) > > > > The good news? While the District collectively weeps for the loss of its > > panda kiddo, Tai Shan will be living it up. He'll be traveling with a > > two-year-old female panda coming from Zoo Atlanta. Spring break!!!! > > > > Of course, once Tai Shan gets to China, it's time to get down to Serious > > Business. The reason he's going back to China? It's time to settle > > down and > > start breeding. Maybe someday he can tell his offspring all about > the time > > he got mailed. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46281	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China

You betcha!  THAT animal will go 1st all the way! With a minimum of at least two handlers and of course, it's own personal on-board vet!   Bill --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 10:07 PM I saw that after I sent my post, either way it still stands that they will ship the animal much different than live fish would be shipped ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > You might want to read the story. Tai Shan does not leave until > February 4. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > I'm sure that Panda was in a climate controlled cargo area inside a big > crate of some sort while traveling most likely sedated as well. Fish > don't get these luxuries ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well... I'm not positive about that. > > > > Panda's are warm-blooded, fish are not. > > > > Panda's have lots of hair to keep them warm, fish don't... except > for the > > elusive and thought to be extinct > > > http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fish > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fish> > > > > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fis > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippie_fis> > h> > > _full.jpg > > > > I doubt that the cargo hold areas of FEDEX planes are climate controlled > > although they may have some part of the cargo hold area that can be... > > but I > > doubt they care about putting our fish in those areas. > > > > All that said, yes they can handle a box of fish OK but the shipper > still > > needs to insulate the box and add heat packs, as needed, to insure the > > fish > > do not face the extreme colds in the upper atmosphere... or even in some > > ground level climates. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of bill 1433 > > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:05 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > > > I would guess that they can handle a box of fish OK. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> > > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com> <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 11:10 PM > > > > > http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-t> > > > > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed- > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed-Exed-> > t> > > o-China--82632017.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp> > <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp>> > > > > Tai Shan's Getting Fed-Ex'ed to China > > Wow, they really can ship anything. > > By CARISSA DIMARGO > > Updated 8:06 PM EST, Mon, Jan 25, 2010 > > > > Smithsonian Institution > > > > T-minus 10 days to departure. Tai Shan's launch date has been set > > (Thursday, > > Feb. 4), but more importantly, his travel method has been > determined. And > > yes, he's going via Fed Ex. > > > > Nope, it's not just for that urgent last-minute gift you ordered on > > Amazon; > > D.C.'s very own Butterstick is headed back to China in a white cardboard > > envelope. (OK, that's all true except for the white cardboard envelope > > part.) > > > > The good news? While the District collectively weeps for the loss of its > > panda kiddo, Tai Shan will be living it up. He'll be traveling with a > > two-year-old female panda coming from Zoo Atlanta. Spring break!!!! > > > > Of course, once Tai Shan gets to China, it's time to get down to Serious > > Business. The reason he's going back to China? It's time to settle > > down and > > start breeding. Maybe someday he can tell his offspring all about > the time > > he got mailed. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46282	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT: FEDEx to China

Oh I have seen Hippie fishing first hand at Burning Man. Also Hipster fishing. Usually this involves a can of Pabst Blue Ribbon beer (a Hipster favorite) on a fishing line on rod and reel. When the young hipster sees the can it must be reeled in at the appropriate speed to keep them from catching the beer and for maximum embarrassment. Chasing a bad beer to be trendy is no excuse for bad taste in beer. Or the same method is used to catch a Raver. Just use a glow stick. I laughed til my sides hurt the first time I saw that happen. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Jan 26, 2010 10:01 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China   Well.. the elusive and thought to be extinct hippie fish might be sedated... from smoking some algae... according to this site. LOL http://fishwrangler.wikia.com/wiki/Hippie_Fish Description: Between their peaceful personalities and algae smoking, Hippie Phish give little fight on the reel-in. Although dwindling in population, you may catch one coming up for a midnight munchie. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China I'm sure that Panda was in a climate controlled cargo area inside a big crate of some sort while traveling most likely sedated as well. Fish don't get these luxuries ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well... I'm not positive about that. > > Panda's are warm-blooded, fish are not. > > Panda's have lots of hair to keep them warm, fish don't... except for > the elusive and thought to be extinct > http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hippi > e_fish > <http://www.danielroper.com/danielroper.com/Fish%20Wrangler_files/hipp > ie_fish> > _full.jpg > > I doubt that the cargo hold areas of FEDEX planes are climate > controlled although they may have some part of the cargo hold area that can be... > but I > doubt they care about putting our fish in those areas. > > All that said, yes they can handle a box of fish OK but the shipper > still needs to insulate the box and add heat packs, as needed, to > insure the fish do not face the extreme colds in the upper > atmosphere... or even in some ground level climates. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:05 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > > I would guess that they can handle a box of fish OK. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: FEDEx to China > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 11:10 PM > > http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed- > Exed-t > <http://www.nbcwashington.com/around-town/events/Tai-Shans-Getting-Fed > -Exed-t> o-China--82632017.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily > > http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp <http://tinyurl.com/yeq9acp> > > Tai Shan's Getting Fed-Ex'ed to China > Wow, they really can ship anything. > By CARISSA DIMARGO > Updated 8:06 PM EST, Mon, Jan 25, 2010 > > Smithsonian Institution > > T-minus 10 days to departure. Tai Shan's launch date has been set > (Thursday, Feb. 4), but more importantly, his travel method has been > determined. And yes, he's going via Fed Ex. > > Nope, it's not just for that urgent last-minute gift you ordered on > Amazon; D.C.'s very own Butterstick is headed back to China in a white > cardboard envelope. (OK, that's all true except for the white > cardboard envelope > part.) > > The good news? While the District collectively weeps for the loss of > its panda kiddo, Tai Shan will be living it up. He'll be traveling > with a two-year-old female panda coming from Zoo Atlanta. Spring break!!!! > > Of course, once Tai Shan gets to China, it's time to get down to > Serious Business. The reason he's going back to China? It's time to > settle down and start breeding. Maybe someday he can tell his > offspring all about the time he got mailed. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46283	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

Thanks everyone for your help. Sunny died yesterday. :( He lasted quite a few days and it really sucks because if PetsMart (I've adopted Lenny's spelling - it's very apropos) had the antibiotic food in stock maybe he would have gotten better (I had to order it online and it didn't arrive yet). At least I'll have the food on hand in case any of the other fish ever need it. I hope no one else gets sick! I am going to rearrange plants and keep them in the back and have less gravel in the front. Hopefully that will help my water quality (I'll follow Lenny's instructions). I guess there's a reason the 2 guppies died as Gus has popped out a couple more fry - AGAIN. >:/ It seems the platies are taking over... Thanks! Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, I'm not sure who said 1/4" but for live plants, you would need at > least an inch for most plants. If you are going to have a heavily planted > tank, then it's OK to have more over the entire bottom but if you are only > going to have a few plants, then I'd only go with the deeper gravel where > the plants are located and then only have 1/4" to 1/2" of gravel in the > non-planted areas. > > Before you start taking every thing apart, deal with your ill fish and worry > about re-working the tank afterwards. You don't need to cause any > environmental issues in the tank right now but when doing 25% PWC's, maybe > twice a week or more right now, work your siphon tube down deep into the > gravel and let it suck up until it's clear water, then move it to another > spot, until the gavel is MUCH cleaner. You want the gravel very clean > before removing any or it will cause a lot of detritus to mix into the water > column. Once the gravel is very clean and you're not siphoning up much > detritus, then you can look at removing some of it using a slotted spoon or > spatula and lifting some up a little above the rest, let the detritus drip > down and then lift it out of the tank. Turn your filter off prior to > starting this also and do this slowly and you'll end up with less water > clouding. Then, turn your filter back on after you've removed the desired > amount of gravel to let it filter out any debris in the water column. > > As far as the live plants that you have, you are probably supposed to remove > them from their containers. Maybe someone else can elaborate since I've > never purchased any plants that came in containers. They would also spread > out and probably grow better outside of the containers. > > Do you know what kind (species) of plants that you have? That would help us > give you better direction. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > Thanks for all the help! > > He's doing okay in the net - not eating much and staying near the surface > though. I ordered the antibiotic food so hopefully I'll get it by Tuesday > latest. I hope Sunny survives that long, and I hope he's not suffering. :( > Poor little guy. > > In the meantime... I also think I may have too much gravel. Just read > something that said I should have 1/4 inch max. Eeek. I have a couple inches > at least. I thought I needed more so I could bury the plants that come in > those pots. But maybe that's why my nitrates are too high, even tho I vacuum > it probably collects too much debris. > > So I'm going to take everything out, take out most of the gravel, vacuum > well, then put plants/ornaments back. I'll wait though till I get the meds > and feed them to my guppy for a few days before I do the cleanup. > > So.... the plants in the "wool" & pots will just stick out? There's 3 of > them in the forefront of tank (grass). Any suggestions on how to make them > look pretty with less gravel? > > So much to learn still! I was doing good and now this. And I just have a 10 > gallon with 6 little fish. Sheesh!! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > There's so much speculation about the use of Epsom salts and at one > > time was thought to be a cure... but it's not. It's mild enough that > > it can't really hurt to use it in conjunction with other more > > aggressive treatment but Epsom salts by itself is not going to cure > > dropsy, maybe just lessen the swelling a little. > > > > I guess Epsom salts would be comparable to using an ice pack to help > > bring down the swelling of a human's injury but if the swelling is > > caused by a bacterial infection, the ice might relieve some of the > > symptoms but only proper medication is going to help with the infection. > > > > Treating with Epsom Salts should be done in a separate tank/container > > and since Catherine said she didn't have this, I went with the net and > > medicated food.. since the fish was still eating. > > > > This article explains the use of Epsom salts. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > > > As far as using that 6" net, make sure you put something in the bottom > > of the net to keep it open so it doesn't close up. Depending on the > > shape of the net, something like a piece of gravel might work. > > > > You should have told the PetsMart (note that I always type PetsMart... > > as in K-Mart or Wal-Mart... not PetSmart... since they're not too > > smart.. lol) that he/she must have eaten a lot of peas since peas will > > help clear up constipation in fish... or in the case of the PetsMart > > employee, caused diarrhea of the mouth. > > > > I kept hoping Ray would show up in this thread also since he's a > > better medicine man than I am... although I do have VooDoo on my side > > down here in N'Awlins. ;-) In reading the Badman's article above, > > they do mention using Erythromycin in conjunction with the Epsom Salts > > so I'm sure the PetsMart probably has Erythromycin, usually by API and > possibly from Mardel also. > > > > You don't need to purchase a whole lot to set up an H-tank. You can > > use a Sterilite type storage container from Big Lots or Walmart. I > > keep one of these on hand and store all my fish stuff in it until > > needed. If you have an air pump already, hen make one of these DIY > > corner filters if you don't have an extra filter laying around. > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.ht > > ml You could use your existing air pump and just put a splitter on it > > and run a second line to an air stone in the sponge filter or just > > shove the air line down the riser tube and the big bubbles actually > > work better than small bubbles to create lift/circulation through the > > sponge filter. > > > > You would need a heater though. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > Hey Lenny! > > Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? > > I vaguely remember reading something about that... > > Surely you'll know off the top of your head. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they didn't > > > have > > breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. > > I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. > Gggrrrr. > > > > > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with the > > > handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for Sunny. I > > > will have to buy the medicated food online and hope he lives until > > > it arrives. :( > > > > > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the > > > "fish > > expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the guppy > > peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and > > suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store about > peas and dropsy!! > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital tank > > > do I > > need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in a > > big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him some > > antibiotic powder? > > > > > > Thanks... > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. > > > > It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the tank > > > > to hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're > > > > mentioning PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. > > > > Print the pages as the local stores will usually match the online > > > > prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this would be big > > > > savings but lately they > > are much closer in price. > > > > > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > > > > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure they > > > > sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax and > > > > Lee's > > aquarium supplies. > > > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued > > > > but here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm_m > > > > mc > > > > =CSEMGoo > > > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-8381 > > > > -D > > > > E11-B7F3 > > > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - > > > > Penn Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart > > > > might match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only $4.97. > > > > > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't > > > > have an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect an > > > > injured or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The > > > > breeder net can be > > set up in a minute. > > > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a > > > > sort of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has > > > > her tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. > > > > Let the male suffer being in the breeder net in those instances. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want > > > > to save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put > > > > them in the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure > > > > it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating > > > > net and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. > > > > > The > > > > bad > > > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, > > > > > when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little > > > > > pine > > cone. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29. > > > > jpg > > > > > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back > > > > > half of > > > > the > > > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v= > > > > > 0 > > > > > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top > > > > > view is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning > > > > > better than any > > > > other > > > > > view. > > > > > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which > > > > > causes the > > > > fish > > > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. > > > > > The > > > > last I > > > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to > > > > > what > > > > started > > > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > > > > bacterial > > > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully > > > > > treating > > > > early > > > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental > > > > goldfish, > > > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a > > > > > series > > > > of 25% > > > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without > > > > > changing > > > > the > > > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing > > > > > fish, > > > > which > > > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to > > > > > put > > > > out > > > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how > > > > > fast > > > > fish > > > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't > > > > > eat > > > > it, then > > > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause > > > > > your nitrates to rise. > > > > > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to > > > > > treat > > > > an > > > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle > > > > > Brand > > > > makes an > > > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed > > > > > the > > > > affected > > > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would > > > > > give > > > > you a > > > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also > > > > > give > > > > the sick > > > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. > > > > > While > > > > the > > > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first > > > > instinct is > > > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. > > > > that's > > > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for > > > > > removing a > > > > sick > > > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for > > > > > it's > > > > life > > > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on > > > > > my > > > > fish, > > > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was > > > > > hanging > > > > out > > > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do > > > > anything. Is > > > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what > > > > > and how > > > > to > > > > > administer? > > > > > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > > > NH3 = 0 > > > > > NO3- = 80 > > > > > PH = 7.0 > > > > > GH = 7 > > > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". > > > > > Obviously > > > > he > > > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when > > > > vacuuming > > > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's > > > > > buried > > > > under > > > > > some rocks. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra > > > > > Danios (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > > Catherine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46284	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

p.s. The plants in pots are some type of grass - not Guppy Grass. It looks Ike a little clump of garden grass. They're in the planting "felt", and all that is in a plastic pot. Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, I'm not sure who said 1/4" but for live plants, you would need at > least an inch for most plants. If you are going to have a heavily planted > tank, then it's OK to have more over the entire bottom but if you are only > going to have a few plants, then I'd only go with the deeper gravel where > the plants are located and then only have 1/4" to 1/2" of gravel in the > non-planted areas. > > Before you start taking every thing apart, deal with your ill fish and worry > about re-working the tank afterwards. You don't need to cause any > environmental issues in the tank right now but when doing 25% PWC's, maybe > twice a week or more right now, work your siphon tube down deep into the > gravel and let it suck up until it's clear water, then move it to another > spot, until the gavel is MUCH cleaner. You want the gravel very clean > before removing any or it will cause a lot of detritus to mix into the water > column. Once the gravel is very clean and you're not siphoning up much > detritus, then you can look at removing some of it using a slotted spoon or > spatula and lifting some up a little above the rest, let the detritus drip > down and then lift it out of the tank. Turn your filter off prior to > starting this also and do this slowly and you'll end up with less water > clouding. Then, turn your filter back on after you've removed the desired > amount of gravel to let it filter out any debris in the water column. > > As far as the live plants that you have, you are probably supposed to remove > them from their containers. Maybe someone else can elaborate since I've > never purchased any plants that came in containers. They would also spread > out and probably grow better outside of the containers. > > Do you know what kind (species) of plants that you have? That would help us > give you better direction. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > Thanks for all the help! > > He's doing okay in the net - not eating much and staying near the surface > though. I ordered the antibiotic food so hopefully I'll get it by Tuesday > latest. I hope Sunny survives that long, and I hope he's not suffering. :( > Poor little guy. > > In the meantime... I also think I may have too much gravel. Just read > something that said I should have 1/4 inch max. Eeek. I have a couple inches > at least. I thought I needed more so I could bury the plants that come in > those pots. But maybe that's why my nitrates are too high, even tho I vacuum > it probably collects too much debris. > > So I'm going to take everything out, take out most of the gravel, vacuum > well, then put plants/ornaments back. I'll wait though till I get the meds > and feed them to my guppy for a few days before I do the cleanup. > > So.... the plants in the "wool" & pots will just stick out? There's 3 of > them in the forefront of tank (grass). Any suggestions on how to make them > look pretty with less gravel? > > So much to learn still! I was doing good and now this. And I just have a 10 > gallon with 6 little fish. Sheesh!! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > There's so much speculation about the use of Epsom salts and at one > > time was thought to be a cure... but it's not. It's mild enough that > > it can't really hurt to use it in conjunction with other more > > aggressive treatment but Epsom salts by itself is not going to cure > > dropsy, maybe just lessen the swelling a little. > > > > I guess Epsom salts would be comparable to using an ice pack to help > > bring down the swelling of a human's injury but if the swelling is > > caused by a bacterial infection, the ice might relieve some of the > > symptoms but only proper medication is going to help with the infection. > > > > Treating with Epsom Salts should be done in a separate tank/container > > and since Catherine said she didn't have this, I went with the net and > > medicated food.. since the fish was still eating. > > > > This article explains the use of Epsom salts. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > > > As far as using that 6" net, make sure you put something in the bottom > > of the net to keep it open so it doesn't close up. Depending on the > > shape of the net, something like a piece of gravel might work. > > > > You should have told the PetsMart (note that I always type PetsMart... > > as in K-Mart or Wal-Mart... not PetSmart... since they're not too > > smart.. lol) that he/she must have eaten a lot of peas since peas will > > help clear up constipation in fish... or in the case of the PetsMart > > employee, caused diarrhea of the mouth. > > > > I kept hoping Ray would show up in this thread also since he's a > > better medicine man than I am... although I do have VooDoo on my side > > down here in N'Awlins. ;-) In reading the Badman's article above, > > they do mention using Erythromycin in conjunction with the Epsom Salts > > so I'm sure the PetsMart probably has Erythromycin, usually by API and > possibly from Mardel also. > > > > You don't need to purchase a whole lot to set up an H-tank. You can > > use a Sterilite type storage container from Big Lots or Walmart. I > > keep one of these on hand and store all my fish stuff in it until > > needed. If you have an air pump already, hen make one of these DIY > > corner filters if you don't have an extra filter laying around. > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.ht > > ml You could use your existing air pump and just put a splitter on it > > and run a second line to an air stone in the sponge filter or just > > shove the air line down the riser tube and the big bubbles actually > > work better than small bubbles to create lift/circulation through the > > sponge filter. > > > > You would need a heater though. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > Hey Lenny! > > Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? > > I vaguely remember reading something about that... > > Surely you'll know off the top of your head. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they didn't > > > have > > breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. > > I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. > Gggrrrr. > > > > > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with the > > > handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for Sunny. I > > > will have to buy the medicated food online and hope he lives until > > > it arrives. :( > > > > > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the > > > "fish > > expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the guppy > > peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and > > suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store about > peas and dropsy!! > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital tank > > > do I > > need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in a > > big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him some > > antibiotic powder? > > > > > > Thanks... > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. > > > > It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the tank > > > > to hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're > > > > mentioning PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. > > > > Print the pages as the local stores will usually match the online > > > > prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this would be big > > > > savings but lately they > > are much closer in price. > > > > > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > > > > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure they > > > > sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax and > > > > Lee's > > aquarium supplies. > > > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued > > > > but here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm_m > > > > mc > > > > =CSEMGoo > > > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-8381 > > > > -D > > > > E11-B7F3 > > > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - > > > > Penn Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart > > > > might match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only $4.97. > > > > > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't > > > > have an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect an > > > > injured or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The > > > > breeder net can be > > set up in a minute. > > > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a > > > > sort of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has > > > > her tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. > > > > Let the male suffer being in the breeder net in those instances. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want > > > > to save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put > > > > them in the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure > > > > it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating > > > > net and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. > > > > > The > > > > bad > > > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy IF, > > > > > when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a little > > > > > pine > > cone. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29. > > > > jpg > > > > > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back > > > > > half of > > > > the > > > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?v= > > > > > 0 > > > > > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top > > > > > view is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning > > > > > better than any > > > > other > > > > > view. > > > > > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which > > > > > causes the > > > > fish > > > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. > > > > > The > > > > last I > > > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as to > > > > > what > > > > started > > > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > > > > bacterial > > > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully > > > > > treating > > > > early > > > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger ornamental > > > > goldfish, > > > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a > > > > > series > > > > of 25% > > > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without > > > > > changing > > > > the > > > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing > > > > > fish, > > > > which > > > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them to > > > > > put > > > > out > > > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised how > > > > > fast > > > > fish > > > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they didn't > > > > > eat > > > > it, then > > > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would cause > > > > > your nitrates to rise. > > > > > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea to > > > > > treat > > > > an > > > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle > > > > > Brand > > > > makes an > > > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed > > > > > the > > > > affected > > > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets would > > > > > give > > > > you a > > > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also > > > > > give > > > > the sick > > > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. > > > > > While > > > > the > > > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's first > > > > instinct is > > > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. > > > > that's > > > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for > > > > > removing a > > > > sick > > > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for > > > > > it's > > > > life > > > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye on > > > > > my > > > > fish, > > > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was > > > > > hanging > > > > out > > > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to do > > > > anything. Is > > > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what > > > > > and how > > > > to > > > > > administer? > > > > > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > > > NH3 = 0 > > > > > NO3- = 80 > > > > > PH = 7.0 > > > > > GH = 7 > > > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". > > > > > Obviously > > > > he > > > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up when > > > > vacuuming > > > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's > > > > > buried > > > > under > > > > > some rocks. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra > > > > > Danios (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > > Catherine >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46285	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention

Hi William, Would love to go to the convention. I was reading the speaker line up earlier and "Wow" you guys have some great speakers. I went on a Florida fish(farm) collecting trip with Gary Bagnall last year. What a great guy! I actually have a week off in February but it is before the NEC. I will see if I can plan for next years. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: William M <dreammaker2623@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Jan 26, 2010 8:08 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention   I am on the conservation committee and will welcome any donations of fish for the worthwhile project. This is one way that aquarium keepers can make a difference by helping to conserve fish and their habitants. Last year we had a lady donate a lot of books for the silent auction and it helped to raise many more dollars for our conservation project.If nothing is done then we might be left wondering why we can no longer get any wild caught fish for our aquariums. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I've been meaning to forward this to the list for some time, ,but just never > seemed to do so. This is where to get information about and where to > register for the NEC convention the last weekend of February. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > To: Tropical Fish Hobbyist > Subject: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention > > > > <http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention/> none > > The Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies > > 35th Annual Tropical Fish Convention! > > February 26-28, 2010 at a new location: the Crowne Plaza Hotel > > in Cromwell, CT! > > > > This email IS your NEC Convention Registration Flier! Unless you request us > to mail you a paper flier, we will only notify you via email about the NEC > Convention this year! > > > > Go to our website to Register now! Early Registration Prices END February > 1st! > > Click here to > <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/index.php?option=com_virtuemar t&Item > id=96&vmcchk=1&Itemid=96> REGISTER ONLINE (and pay online) for the 35th > Annual NEC Convention or > > Click here to > <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/images/stories/2010_Forms/Regi strati > onForm.doc> DOWNLOAD A REGISTRATION FORM to print and mail to us along with > a check. > > > > Click here to > <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/index.php?option=com_content&a mp;view=ar > ticle&id=57&Itemid=73> RESERVE A ROOM AT THE CROWNE PLAZA HOTEL at our > special rate of $94/night plus tax. > > > > All convention information can be found on our Convention Website > <http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention> > www.northeastcouncil.org/convention including Speakers, Schedules, Sunday > Auction forms, Registration Options, everything you need to know about the > convention! > > > > Please forward this email to your local pet store and anyone you think might > be interested in knowing about this great event! Please contact us if you > have any questions, require additional information, or want to receive the > convention flier via the US Mail. > > > > See you at the Convention! > > > > Janine Banks > > Convention Chair > > <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... > > (802) 372-8716 > > > > Leslie Dick > > Registration Chair > > <mailto:ldick@...> ldick@... > > (203)748-7800 > > > > Contact <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... if you have any > questions. > > We will only be sending a few periodic emails between now and the end of > February and your email address will only be used by the NEC. However, if > you wish to unsubscribe, just send your request to > <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... and we will remove you from > the emails. > > > > ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´ ¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46286	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

Sorry about Sunny. At least the anti-bacterial food has a reasonably long shelf life so you could hang on to it or bring it back to your local PetsMart so they'll at least have one bottle on hand for the next customer. Did you get this grass and other containerized plants at PetsMart? My PetsMart sells plants but they're all planted in pea gravel and my LFS is the same way, except for Anacharis, Hornwort and other floating plants which are simply left floating in the various sump tanks under their bigger display tanks. It seems like the plants would be better for your tank's ecology if they were planted in the substrate if they are the types of plants that are supposed to spread out across the bottom. Some plants are fine to stay in containers but spreading plants need to be let loose to spread. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... p.s. The plants in pots are some type of grass - not Guppy Grass. It looks Ike a little clump of garden grass. They're in the planting "felt", and all that is in a plastic pot. Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, I'm not sure who said 1/4" but for live plants, you would need > at least an inch for most plants. If you are going to have a heavily > planted tank, then it's OK to have more over the entire bottom but if > you are only going to have a few plants, then I'd only go with the > deeper gravel where the plants are located and then only have 1/4" to > 1/2" of gravel in the non-planted areas. > > Before you start taking every thing apart, deal with your ill fish and > worry about re-working the tank afterwards. You don't need to cause > any environmental issues in the tank right now but when doing 25% > PWC's, maybe twice a week or more right now, work your siphon tube > down deep into the gravel and let it suck up until it's clear water, > then move it to another spot, until the gavel is MUCH cleaner. You > want the gravel very clean before removing any or it will cause a lot > of detritus to mix into the water column. Once the gravel is very > clean and you're not siphoning up much detritus, then you can look at > removing some of it using a slotted spoon or spatula and lifting some > up a little above the rest, let the detritus drip down and then lift > it out of the tank. Turn your filter off prior to starting this also > and do this slowly and you'll end up with less water clouding. Then, > turn your filter back on after you've removed the desired amount of gravel to let it filter out any debris in the water column. > > As far as the live plants that you have, you are probably supposed to > remove them from their containers. Maybe someone else can elaborate > since I've never purchased any plants that came in containers. They > would also spread out and probably grow better outside of the containers. > > Do you know what kind (species) of plants that you have? That would > help us give you better direction. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > Thanks for all the help! > > He's doing okay in the net - not eating much and staying near the > surface though. I ordered the antibiotic food so hopefully I'll get it > by Tuesday latest. I hope Sunny survives that long, and I hope he's > not suffering. :( Poor little guy. > > In the meantime... I also think I may have too much gravel. Just read > something that said I should have 1/4 inch max. Eeek. I have a couple > inches at least. I thought I needed more so I could bury the plants > that come in those pots. But maybe that's why my nitrates are too > high, even tho I vacuum it probably collects too much debris. > > So I'm going to take everything out, take out most of the gravel, > vacuum well, then put plants/ornaments back. I'll wait though till I > get the meds and feed them to my guppy for a few days before I do the cleanup. > > So.... the plants in the "wool" & pots will just stick out? There's 3 > of them in the forefront of tank (grass). Any suggestions on how to > make them look pretty with less gravel? > > So much to learn still! I was doing good and now this. And I just have > a 10 gallon with 6 little fish. Sheesh!! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > There's so much speculation about the use of Epsom salts and at one > > time was thought to be a cure... but it's not. It's mild enough > > that it can't really hurt to use it in conjunction with other more > > aggressive treatment but Epsom salts by itself is not going to cure > > dropsy, maybe just lessen the swelling a little. > > > > I guess Epsom salts would be comparable to using an ice pack to help > > bring down the swelling of a human's injury but if the swelling is > > caused by a bacterial infection, the ice might relieve some of the > > symptoms but only proper medication is going to help with the infection. > > > > Treating with Epsom Salts should be done in a separate > > tank/container and since Catherine said she didn't have this, I went > > with the net and medicated food.. since the fish was still eating. > > > > This article explains the use of Epsom salts. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > > > As far as using that 6" net, make sure you put something in the > > bottom of the net to keep it open so it doesn't close up. Depending > > on the shape of the net, something like a piece of gravel might work. > > > > You should have told the PetsMart (note that I always type PetsMart... > > as in K-Mart or Wal-Mart... not PetSmart... since they're not too > > smart.. lol) that he/she must have eaten a lot of peas since peas > > will help clear up constipation in fish... or in the case of the > > PetsMart employee, caused diarrhea of the mouth. > > > > I kept hoping Ray would show up in this thread also since he's a > > better medicine man than I am... although I do have VooDoo on my > > side down here in N'Awlins. ;-) In reading the Badman's article > > above, they do mention using Erythromycin in conjunction with the > > Epsom Salts so I'm sure the PetsMart probably has Erythromycin, > > usually by API and > possibly from Mardel also. > > > > You don't need to purchase a whole lot to set up an H-tank. You can > > use a Sterilite type storage container from Big Lots or Walmart. I > > keep one of these on hand and store all my fish stuff in it until > > needed. If you have an air pump already, hen make one of these DIY > > corner filters if you don't have an extra filter laying around. > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter. > > ht ml You could use your existing air pump and just put a splitter > > on it and run a second line to an air stone in the sponge filter or > > just shove the air line down the riser tube and the big bubbles > > actually work better than small bubbles to create lift/circulation > > through the sponge filter. > > > > You would need a heater though. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > Hey Lenny! > > Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? > > I vaguely remember reading something about that... > > Surely you'll know off the top of your head. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they > > > didn't have > > breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. > > I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. > Gggrrrr. > > > > > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with > > > the handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for > > > Sunny. I will have to buy the medicated food online and hope he > > > lives until it arrives. :( > > > > > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the > > > "fish > > expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the > > guppy peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and > > suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store > > about > peas and dropsy!! > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital > > > tank do I > > need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in > > a big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him > > some antibiotic powder? > > > > > > Thanks... > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. > > > > It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the > > > > tank to hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're > > > > mentioning PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. > > > > Print the pages as the local stores will usually match the > > > > online prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this would > > > > be big savings but lately they > > are much closer in price. > > > > > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > > > > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure > > > > they sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax > > > > and Lee's > > aquarium supplies. > > > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued > > > > but here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm > > > > _m > > > > mc > > > > =CSEMGoo > > > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-83 > > > > 81 > > > > -D > > > > E11-B7F3 > > > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - > > > > Penn Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart > > > > might match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only $4.97. > > > > > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't > > > > have an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect an > > > > injured or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The > > > > breeder net can be > > set up in a minute. > > > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a > > > > sort of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has > > > > her tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. > > > > Let the male suffer being in the breeder net in those instances. > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want > > > > to save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put > > > > them in the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure > > > > it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating > > > > net and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. > > > > > The > > > > bad > > > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy > > > > > IF, when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a > > > > > little pine > > cone. > > > > > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29. > > > > jpg > > > > > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back > > > > > half of > > > > the > > > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg? > > > > > v= > > > > > 0 > > > > > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top > > > > > view is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning > > > > > better than any > > > > other > > > > > view. > > > > > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which > > > > > causes the > > > > fish > > > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. > > > > > The > > > > last I > > > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as > > > > > to what > > > > started > > > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > > > > bacterial > > > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully > > > > > treating > > > > early > > > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger > > > > > ornamental > > > > goldfish, > > > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a > > > > > series > > > > of 25% > > > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without > > > > > changing > > > > the > > > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing > > > > > fish, > > > > which > > > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them > > > > > to put > > > > out > > > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised > > > > > how fast > > > > fish > > > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they > > > > > didn't eat > > > > it, then > > > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would > > > > > cause your nitrates to rise. > > > > > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea > > > > > to treat > > > > an > > > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle > > > > > Brand > > > > makes an > > > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed > > > > > the > > > > affected > > > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets > > > > > would give > > > > you a > > > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also > > > > > give > > > > the sick > > > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. > > > > > While > > > > the > > > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's > > > > > first > > > > instinct is > > > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a predator.. > > > > that's > > > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for > > > > > removing a > > > > sick > > > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for > > > > > it's > > > > life > > > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > > > > > articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye > > > > > on my > > > > fish, > > > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was > > > > > hanging > > > > out > > > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to > > > > > do > > > > anything. Is > > > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what > > > > > and how > > > > to > > > > > administer? > > > > > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > > > NH3 = 0 > > > > > NO3- = 80 > > > > > PH = 7.0 > > > > > GH = 7 > > > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". > > > > > Obviously > > > > he > > > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up > > > > > when > > > > vacuuming > > > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's > > > > > buried > > > > under > > > > > some rocks. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra > > > > > Danios (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46287	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/26/2010
Subject: Re: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention

Mike, Actually, it is pretty early this year, though this date is more in line with the time they used to have it many years ago. This is also a change in venue. The first change in about 10 years. So, it is an earlier date and a new hotel. We'll have to see how it goes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention Hi William, Would love to go to the convention. I was reading the speaker line up earlier and "Wow" you guys have some great speakers. I went on a Florida fish(farm) collecting trip with Gary Bagnall last year. What a great guy! I actually have a week off in February but it is before the NEC. I will see if I can plan for next years. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: William M <dreammaker2623@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Jan 26, 2010 8:08 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: FW: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention I am on the conservation committee and will welcome any donations of fish for the worthwhile project. This is one way that aquarium keepers can make a difference by helping to conserve fish and their habitants. Last year we had a lady donate a lot of books for the silent auction and it helped to raise many more dollars for our conservation project.If nothing is done then we might be left wondering why we can no longer get any wild caught fish for our aquariums. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I've been meaning to forward this to the list for some time, ,but just never > seemed to do so. This is where to get information about and where to > register for the NEC convention the last weekend of February. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > To: Tropical Fish Hobbyist > Subject: This IS Your Registration Flier-NEC Convention > > > > <http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention/> none > > The Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies > > 35th Annual Tropical Fish Convention! > > February 26-28, 2010 at a new location: the Crowne Plaza Hotel > > in Cromwell, CT! > > > > This email IS your NEC Convention Registration Flier! Unless you request us > to mail you a paper flier, we will only notify you via email about the NEC > Convention this year! > > > > Go to our website to Register now! Early Registration Prices END February > 1st! > > Click here to > <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/index.php?option=com_virtuemar t&Item > id=96&vmcchk=1&Itemid=96> REGISTER ONLINE (and pay online) for the 35th > Annual NEC Convention or > > Click here to > <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/images/stories/2010_Forms/Regi strati > onForm.doc> DOWNLOAD A REGISTRATION FORM to print and mail to us along with > a check. > > > > Click here to > <http://northeastcouncil.org/convention/index.php?option=com_content&a mp;view=ar > ticle&id=57&Itemid=73> RESERVE A ROOM AT THE CROWNE PLAZA HOTEL at our > special rate of $94/night plus tax. > > > > All convention information can be found on our Convention Website > <http://www.northeastcouncil.org/convention> > www.northeastcouncil.org/convention including Speakers, Schedules, Sunday > Auction forms, Registration Options, everything you need to know about the > convention! > > > > Please forward this email to your local pet store and anyone you think might > be interested in knowing about this great event! Please contact us if you > have any questions, require additional information, or want to receive the > convention flier via the US Mail. > > > > See you at the Convention! > > > > Janine Banks > > Convention Chair > > <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... > > (802) 372-8716 > > > > Leslie Dick > > Registration Chair > > <mailto:ldick@...> ldick@... > > (203)748-7800 > > > > Contact <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... if you have any > questions. > > We will only be sending a few periodic emails between now and the end of > February and your email address will only be used by the NEC. However, if > you wish to unsubscribe, just send your request to > <mailto:dbanks@...> dbanks@... and we will remove you from > the emails. > > > > ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´ ¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46288	From: cat.rose	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

The potted plant is a "Micro Sword" plant that I ordered from Drs. Foster & Smith LiveAquaria.com. I can take it out of the pot, and maybe try to remove some of the planting "felt" and then place them in the substrate. Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Sorry about Sunny. At least the anti-bacterial food has a reasonably long > shelf life so you could hang on to it or bring it back to your local > PetsMart so they'll at least have one bottle on hand for the next customer. > > Did you get this grass and other containerized plants at PetsMart? My > PetsMart sells plants but they're all planted in pea gravel and my LFS is > the same way, except for Anacharis, Hornwort and other floating plants which > are simply left floating in the various sump tanks under their bigger > display tanks. > > It seems like the plants would be better for your tank's ecology if they > were planted in the substrate if they are the types of plants that are > supposed to spread out across the bottom. Some plants are fine to stay in > containers but spreading plants need to be let loose to spread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > p.s. The plants in pots are some type of grass - not Guppy Grass. It looks > Ike a little clump of garden grass. They're in the planting "felt", and all > that is in a plastic pot. > > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@ > wrote: > > > > Well, I'm not sure who said 1/4" but for live plants, you would need > > at least an inch for most plants. If you are going to have a heavily > > planted tank, then it's OK to have more over the entire bottom but if > > you are only going to have a few plants, then I'd only go with the > > deeper gravel where the plants are located and then only have 1/4" to > > 1/2" of gravel in the non-planted areas. > > > > Before you start taking every thing apart, deal with your ill fish and > > worry about re-working the tank afterwards. You don't need to cause > > any environmental issues in the tank right now but when doing 25% > > PWC's, maybe twice a week or more right now, work your siphon tube > > down deep into the gravel and let it suck up until it's clear water, > > then move it to another spot, until the gavel is MUCH cleaner. You > > want the gravel very clean before removing any or it will cause a lot > > of detritus to mix into the water column. Once the gravel is very > > clean and you're not siphoning up much detritus, then you can look at > > removing some of it using a slotted spoon or spatula and lifting some > > up a little above the rest, let the detritus drip down and then lift > > it out of the tank. Turn your filter off prior to starting this also > > and do this slowly and you'll end up with less water clouding. Then, > > turn your filter back on after you've removed the desired amount of gravel > to let it filter out any debris in the water column. > > > > As far as the live plants that you have, you are probably supposed to > > remove them from their containers. Maybe someone else can elaborate > > since I've never purchased any plants that came in containers. They > > would also spread out and probably grow better outside of the containers. > > > > Do you know what kind (species) of plants that you have? That would > > help us give you better direction. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > Thanks for all the help! > > > > He's doing okay in the net - not eating much and staying near the > > surface though. I ordered the antibiotic food so hopefully I'll get it > > by Tuesday latest. I hope Sunny survives that long, and I hope he's > > not suffering. :( Poor little guy. > > > > In the meantime... I also think I may have too much gravel. Just read > > something that said I should have 1/4 inch max. Eeek. I have a couple > > inches at least. I thought I needed more so I could bury the plants > > that come in those pots. But maybe that's why my nitrates are too > > high, even tho I vacuum it probably collects too much debris. > > > > So I'm going to take everything out, take out most of the gravel, > > vacuum well, then put plants/ornaments back. I'll wait though till I > > get the meds and feed them to my guppy for a few days before I do the > cleanup. > > > > So.... the plants in the "wool" & pots will just stick out? There's 3 > > of them in the forefront of tank (grass). Any suggestions on how to > > make them look pretty with less gravel? > > > > So much to learn still! I was doing good and now this. And I just have > > a 10 gallon with 6 little fish. Sheesh!! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > There's so much speculation about the use of Epsom salts and at one > > > time was thought to be a cure... but it's not. It's mild enough > > > that it can't really hurt to use it in conjunction with other more > > > aggressive treatment but Epsom salts by itself is not going to cure > > > dropsy, maybe just lessen the swelling a little. > > > > > > I guess Epsom salts would be comparable to using an ice pack to help > > > bring down the swelling of a human's injury but if the swelling is > > > caused by a bacterial infection, the ice might relieve some of the > > > symptoms but only proper medication is going to help with the infection. > > > > > > Treating with Epsom Salts should be done in a separate > > > tank/container and since Catherine said she didn't have this, I went > > > with the net and medicated food.. since the fish was still eating. > > > > > > This article explains the use of Epsom salts. > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > > > > > As far as using that 6" net, make sure you put something in the > > > bottom of the net to keep it open so it doesn't close up. Depending > > > on the shape of the net, something like a piece of gravel might work. > > > > > > You should have told the PetsMart (note that I always type PetsMart... > > > as in K-Mart or Wal-Mart... not PetSmart... since they're not too > > > smart.. lol) that he/she must have eaten a lot of peas since peas > > > will help clear up constipation in fish... or in the case of the > > > PetsMart employee, caused diarrhea of the mouth. > > > > > > I kept hoping Ray would show up in this thread also since he's a > > > better medicine man than I am... although I do have VooDoo on my > > > side down here in N'Awlins. ;-) In reading the Badman's article > > > above, they do mention using Erythromycin in conjunction with the > > > Epsom Salts so I'm sure the PetsMart probably has Erythromycin, > > > usually by API and > > possibly from Mardel also. > > > > > > You don't need to purchase a whole lot to set up an H-tank. You can > > > use a Sterilite type storage container from Big Lots or Walmart. I > > > keep one of these on hand and store all my fish stuff in it until > > > needed. If you have an air pump already, hen make one of these DIY > > > corner filters if you don't have an extra filter laying around. > > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter. > > > ht ml You could use your existing air pump and just put a splitter > > > on it and run a second line to an air stone in the sponge filter or > > > just shove the air line down the riser tube and the big bubbles > > > actually work better than small bubbles to create lift/circulation > > > through the sponge filter. > > > > > > You would need a heater though. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:46 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > Hey Lenny! > > > Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? > > > I vaguely remember reading something about that... > > > Surely you'll know off the top of your head. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they > > > > didn't have > > > breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. > > > I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. > > Gggrrrr. > > > > > > > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with > > > > the handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for > > > > Sunny. I will have to buy the medicated food online and hope he > > > > lives until it arrives. :( > > > > > > > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the > > > > "fish > > > expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the > > > guppy peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and > > > suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store > > > about > > peas and dropsy!! > > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital > > > > tank do I > > > need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in > > > a big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him > > > some antibiotic powder? > > > > > > > > Thanks... > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. > > > > > It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the > > > > > tank to hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're > > > > > mentioning PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. > > > > > Print the pages as the local stores will usually match the > > > > > online prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this would > > > > > be big savings but lately they > > > are much closer in price. > > > > > > > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > > > > > > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure > > > > > they sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax > > > > > and Lee's > > > aquarium supplies. > > > > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued > > > > > but here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm > > > > > _m > > > > > mc > > > > > =CSEMGoo > > > > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-83 > > > > > 81 > > > > > -D > > > > > E11-B7F3 > > > > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - > > > > > Penn Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart > > > > > might match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only > $4.97. > > > > > > > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't > > > > > have an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect an > > > > > injured or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The > > > > > breeder net can be > > > set up in a minute. > > > > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a > > > > > sort of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has > > > > > her tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. > > > > > Let the male suffer being in the breeder net in those instances. > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want > > > > > to save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put > > > > > them in the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > > > > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure > > > > > it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating > > > > > net and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. > > > > > > The > > > > > bad > > > > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy > > > > > > IF, when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a > > > > > > little pine > > > cone. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29. > > > > > jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back > > > > > > half of > > > > > the > > > > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg? > > > > > > v= > > > > > > 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top > > > > > > view is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning > > > > > > better than any > > > > > other > > > > > > view. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which > > > > > > causes the > > > > > fish > > > > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. > > > > > > The > > > > > last I > > > > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as > > > > > > to what > > > > > started > > > > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > > > > > bacterial > > > > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully > > > > > > treating > > > > > early > > > > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger > > > > > > ornamental > > > > > goldfish, > > > > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a > > > > > > series > > > > > of 25% > > > > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without > > > > > > changing > > > > > the > > > > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing > > > > > > fish, > > > > > which > > > > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them > > > > > > to put > > > > > out > > > > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised > > > > > > how fast > > > > > fish > > > > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they > > > > > > didn't eat > > > > > it, then > > > > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would > > > > > > cause your nitrates to rise. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea > > > > > > to treat > > > > > an > > > > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle > > > > > > Brand > > > > > makes an > > > > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed > > > > > > the > > > > > affected > > > > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets > > > > > > would give > > > > > you a > > > > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also > > > > > > give > > > > > the sick > > > > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. > > > > > > While > > > > > the > > > > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's > > > > > > first > > > > > instinct is > > > > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a > predator.. > > > > > that's > > > > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for > > > > > > removing a > > > > > sick > > > > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for > > > > > > it's > > > > > life > > > > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > > > > > > articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye > > > > > > on my > > > > > fish, > > > > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was > > > > > > hanging > > > > > out > > > > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to > > > > > > do > > > > > anything. Is > > > > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what > > > > > > and how > > > > > to > > > > > > administer? > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > > > > NH3 = 0 > > > > > > NO3- = 80 > > > > > > PH = 7.0 > > > > > > GH = 7 > > > > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". > > > > > > Obviously > > > > > he > > > > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up > > > > > > when > > > > > vacuuming > > > > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's > > > > > > buried > > > > > under > > > > > > some rocks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra > > > > > > Danios (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > > > Catherine > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

OK. Here's the LiveAquaria.com page on it. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+805&pcatid=805 Micro Sword (Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae) QUICK STATS Care Level: Easy Lighting: Moderate Placement: Foreground Water Conditions: 70-83° F, KH 4-8, pH 6.8-7.5 Propogation: Runners Max. Size: 4" Color Form: Green Supplements: High Quality Aquarium Fertilizer Origin: Farm Raised, USA Family: Apiaceae The Micro Sword, sometimes called Copragrass, is a great plant for beginners and seasoned aquarium keepers alike. An attractive bottom covering plant with long light green grass-like leaves, it will spread out in thick carpet of grass. The Micro Sword will make an excellent spawning medium, as well as a great foreground plant. This species is amphibious, and will thrive either partially or fully submersed. The Micro Sword can be housed in water from 70°-83°F, with a neutral pH. This species appreciates a soft substrate that is rich in fertilizer. Provide the plant with moderate lighting of 2 watts per gallon or more, in the color temperature of 5000 to 7000 Kelvin. The Micro Sword propagates from the many runners that will branch off the root area. It grows exceptionally fast, and will quickly cover the bottom of the tank. (END SNIP) I don't like how they say "This species is amphibious" as that often indicates a bog plant that does not actually do very well under water all the time, however, other reputable plant sites say it is an aquatic plant but that it needs a nutrient rich substrate and moderate lighting. I'm not sure if your tank is up to that task so you'll probably have to add a small piece of plant fertilizer stick/tab under the plant. If the felt is actually fibrous cloth/material, I think others have recommended leaving that alone and just planting it so you do not damage the roots trying to get it off. It sounds like this plant will, if given the right environment, grow well and spread out along the front of your tank, since most folks use it as a foreground plant since it doesn't grow very tall (2" to 4" at most) In the future, just like with fish, read up on what the plants requirements are and make sure your tank is up to the task. LiveAquaria is usually pretty decent about posting legitimate info about their fish and plants although they do sometimes show their maximum size as smaller than they might really get and therefore, they list the tank size as smaller than what might really be needed. Recommended reading... http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Lilaeopsis.html http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=253 http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/48215-lila eopsis-novae-zelandiae-lilaeopsis-brasiliensis.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... The potted plant is a "Micro Sword" plant that I ordered from Drs. Foster & Smith LiveAquaria.com. I can take it out of the pot, and maybe try to remove some of the planting "felt" and then place them in the substrate. Catherine --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Sorry about Sunny. At least the anti-bacterial food has a reasonably long > shelf life so you could hang on to it or bring it back to your local > PetsMart so they'll at least have one bottle on hand for the next customer. > > Did you get this grass and other containerized plants at PetsMart? My > PetsMart sells plants but they're all planted in pea gravel and my LFS is > the same way, except for Anacharis, Hornwort and other floating plants which > are simply left floating in the various sump tanks under their bigger > display tanks. > > It seems like the plants would be better for your tank's ecology if they > were planted in the substrate if they are the types of plants that are > supposed to spread out across the bottom. Some plants are fine to stay in > containers but spreading plants need to be let loose to spread. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > p.s. The plants in pots are some type of grass - not Guppy Grass. It looks > Ike a little clump of garden grass. They're in the planting "felt", and all > that is in a plastic pot. > > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" GoldLenny@ > wrote: > > > > Well, I'm not sure who said 1/4" but for live plants, you would need > > at least an inch for most plants. If you are going to have a heavily > > planted tank, then it's OK to have more over the entire bottom but if > > you are only going to have a few plants, then I'd only go with the > > deeper gravel where the plants are located and then only have 1/4" to > > 1/2" of gravel in the non-planted areas. > > > > Before you start taking every thing apart, deal with your ill fish and > > worry about re-working the tank afterwards. You don't need to cause > > any environmental issues in the tank right now but when doing 25% > > PWC's, maybe twice a week or more right now, work your siphon tube > > down deep into the gravel and let it suck up until it's clear water, > > then move it to another spot, until the gavel is MUCH cleaner. You > > want the gravel very clean before removing any or it will cause a lot > > of detritus to mix into the water column. Once the gravel is very > > clean and you're not siphoning up much detritus, then you can look at > > removing some of it using a slotted spoon or spatula and lifting some > > up a little above the rest, let the detritus drip down and then lift > > it out of the tank. Turn your filter off prior to starting this also > > and do this slowly and you'll end up with less water clouding. Then, > > turn your filter back on after you've removed the desired amount of gravel > to let it filter out any debris in the water column. > > > > As far as the live plants that you have, you are probably supposed to > > remove them from their containers. Maybe someone else can elaborate > > since I've never purchased any plants that came in containers. They > > would also spread out and probably grow better outside of the containers. > > > > Do you know what kind (species) of plants that you have? That would > > help us give you better direction. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > Thanks for all the help! > > > > He's doing okay in the net - not eating much and staying near the > > surface though. I ordered the antibiotic food so hopefully I'll get it > > by Tuesday latest. I hope Sunny survives that long, and I hope he's > > not suffering. :( Poor little guy. > > > > In the meantime... I also think I may have too much gravel. Just read > > something that said I should have 1/4 inch max. Eeek. I have a couple > > inches at least. I thought I needed more so I could bury the plants > > that come in those pots. But maybe that's why my nitrates are too > > high, even tho I vacuum it probably collects too much debris. > > > > So I'm going to take everything out, take out most of the gravel, > > vacuum well, then put plants/ornaments back. I'll wait though till I > > get the meds and feed them to my guppy for a few days before I do the > cleanup. > > > > So.... the plants in the "wool" & pots will just stick out? There's 3 > > of them in the forefront of tank (grass). Any suggestions on how to > > make them look pretty with less gravel? > > > > So much to learn still! I was doing good and now this. And I just have > > a 10 gallon with 6 little fish. Sheesh!! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > There's so much speculation about the use of Epsom salts and at one > > > time was thought to be a cure... but it's not. It's mild enough > > > that it can't really hurt to use it in conjunction with other more > > > aggressive treatment but Epsom salts by itself is not going to cure > > > dropsy, maybe just lessen the swelling a little. > > > > > > I guess Epsom salts would be comparable to using an ice pack to help > > > bring down the swelling of a human's injury but if the swelling is > > > caused by a bacterial infection, the ice might relieve some of the > > > symptoms but only proper medication is going to help with the infection. > > > > > > Treating with Epsom Salts should be done in a separate > > > tank/container and since Catherine said she didn't have this, I went > > > with the net and medicated food.. since the fish was still eating. > > > > > > This article explains the use of Epsom salts. > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > > > > > As far as using that 6" net, make sure you put something in the > > > bottom of the net to keep it open so it doesn't close up. Depending > > > on the shape of the net, something like a piece of gravel might work. > > > > > > You should have told the PetsMart (note that I always type PetsMart... > > > as in K-Mart or Wal-Mart... not PetSmart... since they're not too > > > smart.. lol) that he/she must have eaten a lot of peas since peas > > > will help clear up constipation in fish... or in the case of the > > > PetsMart employee, caused diarrhea of the mouth. > > > > > > I kept hoping Ray would show up in this thread also since he's a > > > better medicine man than I am... although I do have VooDoo on my > > > side down here in N'Awlins. ;-) In reading the Badman's article > > > above, they do mention using Erythromycin in conjunction with the > > > Epsom Salts so I'm sure the PetsMart probably has Erythromycin, > > > usually by API and > > possibly from Mardel also. > > > > > > You don't need to purchase a whole lot to set up an H-tank. You can > > > use a Sterilite type storage container from Big Lots or Walmart. I > > > keep one of these on hand and store all my fish stuff in it until > > > needed. If you have an air pump already, hen make one of these DIY > > > corner filters if you don't have an extra filter laying around. > > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter. > > > ht ml You could use your existing air pump and just put a splitter > > > on it and run a second line to an air stone in the sponge filter or > > > just shove the air line down the riser tube and the big bubbles > > > actually work better than small bubbles to create lift/circulation > > > through the sponge filter. > > > > > > You would need a heater though. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:46 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > Hey Lenny! > > > Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? > > > I vaguely remember reading something about that... > > > Surely you'll know off the top of your head. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cat.rose" <catrosemail-peace@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they > > > > didn't have > > > breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic pellets. > > > I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. > > Gggrrrr. > > > > > > > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with > > > > the handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for > > > > Sunny. I will have to buy the medicated food online and hope he > > > > lives until it arrives. :( > > > > > > > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with the > > > > "fish > > > expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the > > > guppy peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was and > > > suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store > > > about > > peas and dropsy!! > > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital > > > > tank do I > > > need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy in > > > a big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give him > > > some antibiotic powder? > > > > > > > > Thanks... > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell them. > > > > > It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the > > > > > tank to hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're > > > > > mentioning PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. > > > > > Print the pages as the local stores will usually match the > > > > > online prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this would > > > > > be big savings but lately they > > > are much closer in price. > > > > > > > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > > > > > > > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure > > > > > they sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax > > > > > and Lee's > > > aquarium supplies. > > > > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was discontinued > > > > > but here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm > > > > > _m > > > > > mc > > > > > =CSEMGoo > > > > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-83 > > > > > 81 > > > > > -D > > > > > E11-B7F3 > > > > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for - > > > > > Penn Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that PetsMart > > > > > might match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only > $4.97. > > > > > > > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't > > > > > have an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect an > > > > > injured or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The > > > > > breeder net can be > > > set up in a minute. > > > > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as a > > > > > sort of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing has > > > > > her tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. > > > > > Let the male suffer being in the breeder net in those instances. > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you want > > > > > to save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and put > > > > > them in the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > > > > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% sure > > > > > it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that floating > > > > > net and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen overnight. > > > > > > The > > > > > bad > > > > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy > > > > > > IF, when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a > > > > > > little pine > > > cone. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29. > > > > > jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the back > > > > > > half of > > > > > the > > > > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg? > > > > > > v= > > > > > > 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top > > > > > > view is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning > > > > > > better than any > > > > > other > > > > > > view. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which > > > > > > causes the > > > > > fish > > > > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking out. > > > > > > The > > > > > last I > > > > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as > > > > > > to what > > > > > started > > > > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic with > > > > > bacterial > > > > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were successfully > > > > > > treating > > > > > early > > > > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger > > > > > > ornamental > > > > > goldfish, > > > > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do a > > > > > > series > > > > > of 25% > > > > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them without > > > > > > changing > > > > > the > > > > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing > > > > > > fish, > > > > > which > > > > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing them > > > > > > to put > > > > > out > > > > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised > > > > > > how fast > > > > > fish > > > > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they > > > > > > didn't eat > > > > > it, then > > > > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would > > > > > > cause your nitrates to rise. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good idea > > > > > > to treat > > > > > an > > > > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle > > > > > > Brand > > > > > makes an > > > > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot feed > > > > > > the > > > > > affected > > > > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets > > > > > > would give > > > > > you a > > > > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would also > > > > > > give > > > > > the sick > > > > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other fish. > > > > > > While > > > > > the > > > > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's > > > > > > first > > > > > instinct is > > > > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a > predator.. > > > > > that's > > > > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for > > > > > > removing a > > > > > sick > > > > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear for > > > > > > it's > > > > > life > > > > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > > > > > > articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > right > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > Year, > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good eye > > > > > > on my > > > > > fish, > > > > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was > > > > > > hanging > > > > > out > > > > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to > > > > > > do > > > > > anything. Is > > > > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so what > > > > > > and how > > > > > to > > > > > > administer? > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > > > > NH3 = 0 > > > > > > NO3- = 80 > > > > > > PH = 7.0 > > > > > > GH = 7 > > > > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". > > > > > > Obviously > > > > > he > > > > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up > > > > > > when > > > > > vacuuming > > > > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing he's > > > > > > buried > > > > > under > > > > > > some rocks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra > > > > > > Danios (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > > > Catherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46290	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy with Dropsy...

I bought some of that same plant (not from the same place but that's not important, LOL), I found that it does not grow very fast if you do not give it fertilizer tabs, and mine has not spread out across the bottom of my tank at all, but it's in a nice little clump and it's gotten "bushy" compared to when I first got it, so it's growing well, just not "fast" like that page says it will. Perhaps that's with very high lighting and lots of added fertilizers? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. Here's the LiveAquaria.com page on it. > > http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+805&pcatid=805 > <http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=768+805&pcatid=805> > > Micro Sword (Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae) > > QUICK STATS > Care Level: Easy > Lighting: Moderate > Placement: Foreground > Water Conditions: 70-83° F, KH 4-8, pH 6.8-7.5 > Propogation: Runners > Max. Size: 4" > Color Form: Green > Supplements: High Quality Aquarium Fertilizer > Origin: Farm Raised, USA > Family: Apiaceae > > The Micro Sword, sometimes called Copragrass, is a great plant for > beginners > and seasoned aquarium keepers alike. An attractive bottom covering plant > with long light green grass-like leaves, it will spread out in thick > carpet > of grass. The Micro Sword will make an excellent spawning medium, as > well as > a great foreground plant. This species is amphibious, and will thrive > either > partially or fully submersed. > The Micro Sword can be housed in water from 70°-83°F, with a neutral pH. > This species appreciates a soft substrate that is rich in fertilizer. > Provide the plant with moderate lighting of 2 watts per gallon or more, in > the color temperature of 5000 to 7000 Kelvin. > > The Micro Sword propagates from the many runners that will branch off the > root area. It grows exceptionally fast, and will quickly cover the > bottom of > the tank. > (END SNIP) > > I don't like how they say "This species is amphibious" as that often > indicates a bog plant that does not actually do very well under water all > the time, however, other reputable plant sites say it is an aquatic plant > but that it needs a nutrient rich substrate and moderate lighting. I'm not > sure if your tank is up to that task so you'll probably have to add a > small > piece of plant fertilizer stick/tab under the plant. > > If the felt is actually fibrous cloth/material, I think others have > recommended leaving that alone and just planting it so you do not > damage the > roots trying to get it off. > > It sounds like this plant will, if given the right environment, grow well > and spread out along the front of your tank, since most folks use it as a > foreground plant since it doesn't grow very tall (2" to 4" at most) > > In the future, just like with fish, read up on what the plants > requirements > are and make sure your tank is up to the task. LiveAquaria is usually > pretty decent about posting legitimate info about their fish and plants > although they do sometimes show their maximum size as smaller than they > might really get and therefore, they list the tank size as smaller > than what > might really be needed. > > Recommended reading... > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Lilaeopsis.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Lilaeopsis.html> > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=253 > <http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=253> > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/48215-lila > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/48215-lila> > eopsis-novae-zelandiae-lilaeopsis-brasiliensis.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of cat.rose > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 3:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > The potted plant is a "Micro Sword" plant that I ordered from Drs. > Foster & Smith LiveAquaria.com. I can take it out of the pot, and > maybe try > to remove some of the planting "felt" and then place them in the > substrate. > > Catherine > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Sorry about Sunny. At least the anti-bacterial food has a reasonably > long > > shelf life so you could hang on to it or bring it back to your local > > PetsMart so they'll at least have one bottle on hand for the next > customer. > > > > Did you get this grass and other containerized plants at PetsMart? My > > PetsMart sells plants but they're all planted in pea gravel and my LFS > is > > the same way, except for Anacharis, Hornwort and other floating plants > which > > are simply left floating in the various sump tanks under their bigger > > display tanks. > > > > It seems like the plants would be better for your tank's ecology if > they > > were planted in the substrate if they are the types of plants that are > > supposed to spread out across the bottom. Some plants are fine to > stay in > > containers but spreading plants need to be let loose to spread. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > On > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > p.s. The plants in pots are some type of grass - not Guppy Grass. It > looks > > Ike a little clump of garden grass. They're in the planting "felt", > and all > > that is in a plastic pot. > > > > Catherine > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > GoldLenny@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Well, I'm not sure who said 1/4" but for live plants, you would need > > > at least an inch for most plants. If you are going to have a > heavily > > > planted tank, then it's OK to have more over the entire bottom but > if > > > you are only going to have a few plants, then I'd only go with the > > > deeper gravel where the plants are located and then only have 1/4" > to > > > 1/2" of gravel in the non-planted areas. > > > > > > Before you start taking every thing apart, deal with your ill fish > and > > > worry about re-working the tank afterwards. You don't need to cause > > > any environmental issues in the tank right now but when doing 25% > > > PWC's, maybe twice a week or more right now, work your siphon tube > > > down deep into the gravel and let it suck up until it's clear water, > > > then move it to another spot, until the gavel is MUCH cleaner. You > > > want the gravel very clean before removing any or it will cause a > lot > > > of detritus to mix into the water column. Once the gravel is very > > > clean and you're not siphoning up much detritus, then you can look > at > > > removing some of it using a slotted spoon or spatula and lifting > some > > > up a little above the rest, let the detritus drip down and then lift > > > it out of the tank. Turn your filter off prior to starting this > also > > > and do this slowly and you'll end up with less water clouding. > Then, > > > turn your filter back on after you've removed the desired amount of > gravel > > to let it filter out any debris in the water column. > > > > > > As far as the live plants that you have, you are probably supposed > to > > > remove them from their containers. Maybe someone else can elaborate > > > since I've never purchased any plants that came in containers. They > > > would also spread out and probably grow better outside of the > containers. > > > > > > Do you know what kind (species) of plants that you have? That would > > > help us give you better direction. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > Thanks for all the help! > > > > > > He's doing okay in the net - not eating much and staying near the > > > surface though. I ordered the antibiotic food so hopefully I'll get > it > > > by Tuesday latest. I hope Sunny survives that long, and I hope he's > > > not suffering. :( Poor little guy. > > > > > > In the meantime... I also think I may have too much gravel. Just > read > > > something that said I should have 1/4 inch max. Eeek. I have a > couple > > > inches at least. I thought I needed more so I could bury the plants > > > that come in those pots. But maybe that's why my nitrates are too > > > high, even tho I vacuum it probably collects too much debris. > > > > > > So I'm going to take everything out, take out most of the gravel, > > > vacuum well, then put plants/ornaments back. I'll wait though till I > > > get the meds and feed them to my guppy for a few days before I do > the > > cleanup. > > > > > > So.... the plants in the "wool" & pots will just stick out? There's > 3 > > > of them in the forefront of tank (grass). Any suggestions on how to > > > make them look pretty with less gravel? > > > > > > So much to learn still! I was doing good and now this. And I just > have > > > a 10 gallon with 6 little fish. Sheesh!! > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > There's so much speculation about the use of Epsom salts and at > one > > > > time was thought to be a cure... but it's not. It's mild enough > > > > that it can't really hurt to use it in conjunction with other more > > > > aggressive treatment but Epsom salts by itself is not going to > cure > > > > dropsy, maybe just lessen the swelling a little. > > > > > > > > I guess Epsom salts would be comparable to using an ice pack to > help > > > > bring down the swelling of a human's injury but if the swelling is > > > > caused by a bacterial infection, the ice might relieve some of the > > > > symptoms but only proper medication is going to help with the > infection. > > > > > > > > Treating with Epsom Salts should be done in a separate > > > > tank/container and since Catherine said she didn't have this, I > went > > > > with the net and medicated food.. since the fish was still eating. > > > > > > > > This article explains the use of Epsom salts. > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html> > > > > > > > > As far as using that 6" net, make sure you put something in the > > > > bottom of the net to keep it open so it doesn't close up. > Depending > > > > on the shape of the net, something like a piece of gravel might > work. > > > > > > > > You should have told the PetsMart (note that I always type > PetsMart... > > > > as in K-Mart or Wal-Mart... not PetSmart... since they're not too > > > > smart.. lol) that he/she must have eaten a lot of peas since peas > > > > will help clear up constipation in fish... or in the case of the > > > > PetsMart employee, caused diarrhea of the mouth. > > > > > > > > I kept hoping Ray would show up in this thread also since he's a > > > > better medicine man than I am... although I do have VooDoo on my > > > > side down here in N'Awlins. ;-) In reading the Badman's article > > > > above, they do mention using Erythromycin in conjunction with the > > > > Epsom Salts so I'm sure the PetsMart probably has Erythromycin, > > > > usually by API and > > > possibly from Mardel also. > > > > > > > > You don't need to purchase a whole lot to set up an H-tank. You > can > > > > use a Sterilite type storage container from Big Lots or Walmart. > I > > > > keep one of these on hand and store all my fish stuff in it until > > > > needed. If you have an air pump already, hen make one of these > DIY > > > > corner filters if you don't have an extra filter laying around. > > > > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter. > <http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.> > > > > ht ml You could use your existing air pump and just put a splitter > > > > on it and run a second line to an air stone in the sponge filter > or > > > > just shove the air line down the riser tube and the big bubbles > > > > actually work better than small bubbles to create lift/circulation > > > > through the sponge filter. > > > > > > > > You would need a heater though. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 7:46 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > Hey Lenny! > > > > Can't Catherine use epsom salts for dropsy? > > > > I vaguely remember reading something about that... > > > > Surely you'll know off the top of your head. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "cat.rose" > <catrosemail-peace@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well, I'm a bit frustrated. >:\ I went to PetSmart and they > > > > > didn't have > > > > breeder nets or hanging tanks, and were out of the antibiotic > pellets. > > > > I called another PetSmart and 3 LFS and NO ONE had these products. > > > Gggrrrr. > > > > > > > > > > So I bought a 6" net and propped it in a corner of the tank with > > > > > the handle sticking out of the lid for a makeshift space for > > > > > Sunny. I will have to buy the medicated food online and hope he > > > > > lives until it arrives. :( > > > > > > > > > > And to top it off I had a rather disturbing conversation with > the > > > > > "fish > > > > expert" at PetSmart who told me all I needed to do was feed the > > > > guppy peas to treat dropsy!! I explained to her what dropsy was > and > > > > suggested she Google it. She said they were trained by the store > > > > about > > > peas and dropsy!! > > > > Ridiculous. > > > > > > > > > > They did have antibiotic powder available. To set up a hospital > > > > > tank do I > > > > need to purchase filter, air pump, heater or can I put the guppy > in > > > > a big bowl with some of my tank's water for a few days and give > him > > > > some antibiotic powder? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks... > > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > <GoldLenny@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not usually a floating net, although they probably sell > them. > > > > > > It has two bendable tin strips that fold over the top of the > > > > > > tank to hold the box-framed net inside the tank. Since you're > > > > > > mentioning PetsMart, here's the items you are talking about. > > > > > > Print the pages as the local stores will usually match the > > > > > > online prices. Online prices use to be a LOT less so this > would > > > > > > be big savings but lately they > > > > are much closer in price. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jungle Anti-Bacteria Food - > > > > > > http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420 > <http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753420> > > > > > > > > > > > > I couldn't find the Breeder Net on PetsMart.com but I'm sure > > > > > > they sell them in the stores. Here are the ones from PennPlax > > > > > > and Lee's > > > > aquarium supplies. > > > > > > Well, the one for Lee's at another online site was > discontinued > > > > > > but here's the one from PennPlax at Petco.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm > <http://www.petco.com/product/13623/Penn-Plax-Net-Breeder.aspx?cm> > > > > > > _m > > > > > > mc > > > > > > =CSEMGoo > > > > > > > glebase-_-Fish-_-Penn%20Plax-_-47325&mr:trackingCode=1701EC15-83 > > > > > > 81 > > > > > > -D > > > > > > E11-B7F3 > > > > > > -0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA > > > > > > > > > > > > Presuming the link will break, go to Petco.com and search for > - > > > > > > Penn Plax Net Breeder. Print the page as I'm sure that > PetsMart > > > > > > might match the price since it's on sale at Petco.com for only > > $4.97. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a good item to have on hand especially if someone doesn't > > > > > > have an extra tank.. even if only used short term to protect > an > > > > > > injured or sick fish while setting up a hospital tank. The > > > > > > breeder net can be > > > > set up in a minute. > > > > > > I've also used it for putting the harassing male fish into as > a > > > > > > sort of time-out to give the female fish a rest when chasing > has > > > > > > her tired out. No point in further stressing the female fish. > > > > > > Let the male suffer being in the breeder net in those > instances. > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > It's also good if (rather, when) your fish have fry and you > want > > > > > > to save some of them from being eaten, you can net them and > put > > > > > > them in the breeder net till they grow a little bigger. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any > articles > > > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Lenny! > > > > > > > > > > > > He definitely looks like those pictures, so I'm almost 100% > sure > > > > > > it's dropsy. I'll go to PetSmart tonight and get that > floating > > > > > > net and an antibiotic fish food. Will also do some more PWC. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > > > Catherine > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. The good news is that dropsy doesn't just happen > overnight. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > news is that your description sounds like it could be dropsy > > > > > > > IF, when looking at the fish from the top, it looks like a > > > > > > > little pine > > > > cone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a decent picture of a small goldfish with dropsy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29. > <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Fish_Dropsy_%28Top%29.> > > > > > > jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This picture of a guppy shows some signs of dropsy in the > back > > > > > > > half of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > fish but usually it happens to the entire fish. > > > > > > > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg? > <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2243205104_c98c952727.jpg?> > > > > > > > v= > > > > > > > 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there a chance of taking a photo of your fish... this top > > > > > > > view is preferred since it shows the degree of pine coning > > > > > > > better than any > > > > > > other > > > > > > > view. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dropsy is theorized to be caused by a kidney disorder which > > > > > > > causes the > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > to retain water and swell up until the scales are sticking > out. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > last I > > > > > > > read a lot about the disease, there were several theories as > > > > > > > to what > > > > > > started > > > > > > > the kidney disorder.. ranging from bacterial to parasitic > with > > > > > > bacterial > > > > > > > having the most weight since some fish vets were > successfully > > > > > > > treating > > > > > > early > > > > > > > cases of dropsy with shots of antibiotics (in larger > > > > > > > ornamental > > > > > > goldfish, > > > > > > > Koi, etc... not so much with guppies). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since your nitrates are kind of high (80ppm), you should do > a > > > > > > > series > > > > > > of 25% > > > > > > > PWC's, maybe one every few hours to slowly lower them > without > > > > > > > changing > > > > > > the > > > > > > > other water parameters too much, too fast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your higher nitrates could be caused by the suddenly missing > > > > > > > fish, > > > > > > which > > > > > > > could have died and been eaten by the other fish causing > them > > > > > > > to put > > > > > > out > > > > > > > more fish waste, raising your nitrates. You'd be surprised > > > > > > > how fast > > > > > > fish > > > > > > > can pick apart one of their recent friends. ;-) If they > > > > > > > didn't eat > > > > > > it, then > > > > > > > it could be hidden and decomposing, either of which would > > > > > > > cause your nitrates to rise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you do not have a quarantine tank, it's not a good > idea > > > > > > > to treat > > > > > > an > > > > > > > entire tank when only one fish is showing symptoms. Jungle > > > > > > > Brand > > > > > > makes an > > > > > > > antibiotic fish food that is pretty good if you can spot > feed > > > > > > > the > > > > > > affected > > > > > > > fish. Maybe getting one of the hang-in-tank breeder nets > > > > > > > would give > > > > > > you a > > > > > > > way of isolating the sick fish during feedings. It would > also > > > > > > > give > > > > > > the sick > > > > > > > fish from peace of mind from being harassed by the other > fish. > > > > > > > While > > > > > > the > > > > > > > other fish may not be harassing it anyhow, the sick fish's > > > > > > > first > > > > > > instinct is > > > > > > > that it will be subject to harassment or being eaten by a > > predator.. > > > > > > that's > > > > > > > how things happen in nature.. which is another reason for > > > > > > > removing a > > > > > > sick > > > > > > > fish to a quarantine tank so that it doesn't have to fear > for > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > life > > > > > > > which just creates more stress and more health issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any > > > > > > > articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > > > right > > > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > > > > Year, > > > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] > > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of cat.rose > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:49 AM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy with Dropsy... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure my guppy has dropsy. I keep a pretty good > eye > > > > > > > on my > > > > > > fish, > > > > > > > but it seemed to just happen. [:-/] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He's a bit bloated and his scales are all raised, and he was > > > > > > > hanging > > > > > > out > > > > > > > near the top of the tank. He did eat tonight tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read that when it gets to this point it may be too late to > > > > > > > do > > > > > > anything. Is > > > > > > > this true or should I give some kind of antibiotic? If so > what > > > > > > > and how > > > > > > to > > > > > > > administer? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also don't have a quarantine tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tested the water tonight: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NO2- = <0.3 > > > > > > > NH3 = 0 > > > > > > > NO3- = 80 > > > > > > > PH = 7.0 > > > > > > > GH = 7 > > > > > > > KH = 1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other weird thing is my other guppy has "gone missing". > > > > > > > Obviously > > > > > > he > > > > > > > died but I can't find his body! I know I didn't suck him up > > > > > > > when > > > > > > vacuuming > > > > > > > the rocks cuz I triple-checked the bucket. I'm supposing > he's > > > > > > > buried > > > > > > under > > > > > > > some rocks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe he had dropsy too? I also have 3 platies, and 2 Zebra > > > > > > > Danios (glo-fish). They all seem fine so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help, > > > > > > > Catherine > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46291	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an auction for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, I do occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46292	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

Well, I can answer this one! Mine are gorging on bloodworms as we speak, as they have been doing for months, and as everyone is well aware, they are breeding for me on the dread bloodworm diet:) I give them lots of other types of foods, but bloodworms is a favorite which they receive about four times weekly. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an > auction > for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. Does > anyone > know if this is true? > If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, > I do > occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. > > Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46293	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

Hmm, good to know, thanks Lainey. I wonder where that rumor got started now ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Well, I can answer this one! > > Mine are gorging on bloodworms as we speak, as they have been doing > for months, and as everyone is well aware, they are breeding for me > on the dread bloodworm diet:) > > I give them lots of other types of foods, but bloodworms is a > favorite which they receive about four times weekly. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an >> auction >> for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. Does >> anyone >> know if this is true? >> If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, >> I do >> occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. >> >> Amber >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46294	From: harry perry	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true/Amber

Evidently there are different worms called bloodworms. One of them might cause problems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_worm I suspect the bloodworms used for salt water fishing is not what you are feeding your fish. Nothing is simple in this hobby. Harry --- On Wed, 1/27/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 6:01 PM   Hmm, good to know, thanks Lainey. I wonder where that rumor got started now ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Well, I can answer this one! > > Mine are gorging on bloodworms as we speak, as they have been doing > for months, and as everyone is well aware, they are breeding for me > on the dread bloodworm diet:) > > I give them lots of other types of foods, but bloodworms is a > favorite which they receive about four times weekly. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an >> auction >> for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. Does >> anyone >> know if this is true? >> If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, >> I do >> occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. >> >> Amber >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46295	From: amejia1976	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally

Here is my baseline based on Lenny's blog instructions out of the tap and pre declor ph @7.6 Ammo @ 0 Nitri & Nitra @ 0 gh @ 7 kh @ 6 After declor Ammo remained @ 0 48 hrs later ph @7.6 Ammo @ .25 Nitri & Nitra @ 0 gh and kh @ 7 So if I am not mistaken my water is a bit hard? I need to lower my pH a tad bit to make it more livable or the conditions I have are on the ideal side? As for the difference in Nitrate between my large (5ppm) and my small (20ppm) would this be a factor I need to compensate for or can I just move from one tank to the other without aclamating? All other parameters are identical; including temp. Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <AMejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > So I finally got the gH and kH test. Below are my test results: > > 10g US > pH 7.6 > Ammo 0ppm > Nitri 0ppm > Nitra 20ppm > gH 8 > kH 6 > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been identical every week since 1/5/10 for 10g tank > > 75g US > pH 7.6 > Ammo 0ppm > Nitri 0ppm > Nitra 5ppm > gH 9 > kH 6 > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been similar since 12/8/09 with the exeption of Nitrates which were at 10ppm but are now @ 5ppm - this could be due to a 30% pwc last week. All tests were done weekly since 12/8/9 > > I have not yet done a water baseline test but will have one by Monday. > > That said, will I be able to move Emerald Corys, Zebra Danios, Chinese Algea Eater, Neon Tetras from the 10g to the 75g or should I hold off until ALL parameters match and/or give it more time to run the tests again? I would be moving each species a week apart to give time for the tank to adjust. > > The 75g has 2 pieces of driftwood, 7 sets of fake (plastic) plants, 300w heater, 9 guppies (5 weeks old), and 7 ghost shrimp. > > Both tanks are set to 78 degrees F > > ohhh, and to any newbies such as me - when doing pwc's MAKE SURE TO TURN OFF AND DISCONNECT ANY HEATERS OR THEY WILL BLOW - I personally vouch for this. > > Alex > Semper Fi >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

Unless it's the type of blood worms (freeze dried??.. but I'm sure you're rehydrating them... right?), I don't see how this could be accurate. In their natural environment, insects, insect larvae, etc. are part of their mostly carnivorous diet. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Microgeophagus_ramirezi.html FOOD: Live; Artemia , bloodworms, glassworms, small insects, insect larvae, Tubifex; pellets; occasionally flakes. (END SNIP) LOTS of reading in the collection of 41 posts about Rams at TheKrib.com. http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an auction for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, I do occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46297	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

I know it is not good for African Lake Malawi mbuna too fatty. There are better sources of protein for them, and they don’t need a lot of protein anyway. Maybe someone extrapolated the mbuna rule to rams, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true Hmm, good to know, thanks Lainey. I wonder where that rumor got started now ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Well, I can answer this one! > > Mine are gorging on bloodworms as we speak, as they have been doing > for months, and as everyone is well aware, they are breeding for me > on the dread bloodworm diet:) > > I give them lots of other types of foods, but bloodworms is a > favorite which they receive about four times weekly. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an >> auction >> for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. Does >> anyone >> know if this is true? >> If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, >> I do >> occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. >> >> Amber >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

Well, since you're the first person to have ever posted about it, that I've read... the rumor obviously started with you. YOU'RE IT!!! Now you have to go find someone else to blame it on and tag them. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true Hmm, good to know, thanks Lainey. I wonder where that rumor got started now ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Well, I can answer this one! > > Mine are gorging on bloodworms as we speak, as they have been doing > for months, and as everyone is well aware, they are breeding for me on > the dread bloodworm diet:) > > I give them lots of other types of foods, but bloodworms is a favorite > which they receive about four times weekly. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an >> auction for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. >> Does anyone know if this is true? >> If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, I >> do occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. >> >> Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46299	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Water Parameters...finally

Your GH and KH of 7 dH and pH of 7.6 are fine for most fish. In fact, it's best if you just go with fish that like your water parameters instead of trying to change your water parameters to match fish... unless you absolutely have to have a certain species that will not do well in your baseline water. If you look at the profiles/care sheets for each of your species on Mongabay.com, you'll likely find that they'll do fine at a 7.6 pH. There are exceptions. In comparing your baseline numbers to your tank numbers, it's good that your pH is stabile but something is causing your GH (General Hardness) to rise from 6-7 to 8-9. Do you have any rocks, additives, etc. that are leaching hardness into your tank's water? Your KH going down slightly is normal as all of the living things in a tank will use up some of the carbonates over time constantly causing the KH to go lower in between PWC's. I'm not sure why your Ammonia reading did not change immediately upon adding your dechlor but since it went up to 0.25ppm after 48 hours, this would lead me to believe that your tap water is sanitized using Chloramine (made up of Chlorine and Ammonia) so that after using a basic dechlor, there will be a slight amount of residual ammonia. 0.25 to 0.5ppm is not uncommon and when doing a 25% PWC, will cause no problems in a properly cycled tank as the incoming water and it's residual ammonia will almost immediately be converted through the nitrogen cycle of the running filter(s) or used by plants, etc. As far as the nitrate level difference between the two tanks, I would do a couple of 25% PWC's on each tank so that the water parameters are in even better condition and more closely matched and then make your move.. although with low nitrates in both tanks, as they are, if you've recently done your PWC's, you could make the change now. The biggest things that would cause shock issues with a no acclimation move would be the pH and/or temperature and those are both the same, per your information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Water Parameters...finally Here is my baseline based on Lenny's blog instructions out of the tap and pre declor ph @7.6 Ammo @ 0 Nitri & Nitra @ 0 gh @ 7 kh @ 6 After declor Ammo remained @ 0 48 hrs later ph @7.6 Ammo @ .25 Nitri & Nitra @ 0 gh and kh @ 7 So if I am not mistaken my water is a bit hard? I need to lower my pH a tad bit to make it more livable or the conditions I have are on the ideal side? As for the difference in Nitrate between my large (5ppm) and my small (20ppm) would this be a factor I need to compensate for or can I just move from one tank to the other without aclamating? All other parameters are identical; including temp. Alex --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <AMejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > So I finally got the gH and kH test. Below are my test results: > > 10g US > pH 7.6 > Ammo 0ppm > Nitri 0ppm > Nitra 20ppm > gH 8 > kH 6 > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been identical every > week since 1/5/10 for 10g tank > > 75g US > pH 7.6 > Ammo 0ppm > Nitri 0ppm > Nitra 5ppm > gH 9 > kH 6 > > Other than gH/kH the rest of the results have been similar since > 12/8/09 with the exeption of Nitrates which were at 10ppm but are now > @ 5ppm - this could be due to a 30% pwc last week. All tests were done > weekly since 12/8/9 > > I have not yet done a water baseline test but will have one by Monday. > > That said, will I be able to move Emerald Corys, Zebra Danios, Chinese Algea Eater, Neon Tetras from the 10g to the 75g or should I hold off until ALL parameters match and/or give it more time to run the tests again? I would be moving each species a week apart to give time for the tank to adjust. > > The 75g has 2 pieces of driftwood, 7 sets of fake (plastic) plants, 300w heater, 9 guppies (5 weeks old), and 7 ghost shrimp. > > Both tanks are set to 78 degrees F > > ohhh, and to any newbies such as me - when doing pwc's MAKE SURE TO TURN OFF AND DISCONNECT ANY HEATERS OR THEY WILL BLOW - I personally vouch for this. > > Alex > Semper Fi > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46300	From: bluefish1955	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Speaking of worms

I am looking for some ideas to research a worm I found in one of my tanks two days ago. It is a plant only tank with a few MTS and possibly nerite snails in it (hitchhikers). I recently purchased a batch of plants online and dumped them in this grow out tank. The "worm" is about 1 1/2 inches long, a nice light tan color (crayola crayons might call is flesh colored). It is kind of shaped like a ribbon, the "skin" looks smooth, and what I would guess is the head looks like a black dot (about the size of a pin head). It undulates through the water and while I watched it, it was all over the tank. I saw it around 6 pm and the tank lights were on. My husband saw it too. I say that because I haven't seen it again. The tank has a hob filter hanging on it and I have not seen anything like it in the filter media. Anybody have any guesses as to what it is? Or, where to look for pictures? I have googled all kinds of strings of words and have seen enough pictures to make me light headed. It is not a tape worm, not a peanut worm, or anything that has hair, antenna, or color striation. The tank is and has always been freshwater. Any help appreciated. Deb Ocean Springs, MS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46301	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms

1-1/2" is a little longer than I've ever seen in my tanks but check out photos of Planaria and see if this is what you are seeing. Also see this recent post out here http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46023 which includes the below info. Check out these pages of critters and things that naturally occur in our tanks and see if you can identify it and let us know. The third link is more about worms so check it out first. http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro.htm (page 1) http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro2.htm (page 2) http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bluefish1955 Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Speaking of worms I am looking for some ideas to research a worm I found in one of my tanks two days ago. It is a plant only tank with a few MTS and possibly nerite snails in it (hitchhikers). I recently purchased a batch of plants online and dumped them in this grow out tank. The "worm" is about 1 1/2 inches long, a nice light tan color (crayola crayons might call is flesh colored). It is kind of shaped like a ribbon, the "skin" looks smooth, and what I would guess is the head looks like a black dot (about the size of a pin head). It undulates through the water and while I watched it, it was all over the tank. I saw it around 6 pm and the tank lights were on. My husband saw it too. I say that because I haven't seen it again. The tank has a hob filter hanging on it and I have not seen anything like it in the filter media. Anybody have any guesses as to what it is? Or, where to look for pictures? I have googled all kinds of strings of words and have seen enough pictures to make me light headed. It is not a tape worm, not a peanut worm, or anything that has hair, antenna, or color striation. The tank is and has always been freshwater. Any help appreciated. Deb Ocean Springs, MS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46302	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms

Thanks Lenny: The first two links are not in the archives. I've looked through the others and don't see it. If I can catch the bugger I'll put it under the microscope and get a picture to post. Thanks for your help. Deb On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > > > 1-1/2" is a little longer than I've ever seen in my tanks but check out > photos of Planaria and see if this is what you are seeing. Also see this > recent post out here > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46023 which > includes the below info. > > Check out these pages of critters and things that naturally occur in our > tanks and see if you can identify it and let us know. The third link is > more about worms so check it out first. > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m > icro.htm > (page 1) > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m > icro2.htm > (page 2) > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm > > http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml > > > http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde > x.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bluefish1955 > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Speaking of worms > > I am looking for some ideas to research a worm I found in one of my tanks > two days ago. It is a plant only tank with a few MTS and possibly nerite > snails in it (hitchhikers). I recently purchased a batch of plants online > and dumped them in this grow out tank. > > The "worm" is about 1 1/2 inches long, a nice light tan color (crayola > crayons might call is flesh colored). It is kind of shaped like a ribbon, > the "skin" looks smooth, and what I would guess is the head looks like a > black dot (about the size of a pin head). It undulates through the water > and while I watched it, it was all over the tank. I saw it around 6 pm and > the tank lights were on. My husband saw it too. I say that because I > haven't seen it again. The tank has a hob filter hanging on it and I have > not seen anything like it in the filter media. > > Anybody have any guesses as to what it is? Or, where to look for pictures? > I have googled all kinds of strings of words and have seen enough pictures > to make me light headed. It is not a tape worm, not a peanut worm, or > anything that has hair, antenna, or color striation. The tank is and has > always been freshwater. > > Any help appreciated. > > Deb > Ocean Springs, MS > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46303	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms

I'm not sure what you mean by "not in the archives" but if the link broke, that could be why they did not open properly. Looking at your reply below, I see the first link broke twice, first after the "p" with the next part of the link being "ages/m" and then the next part of the link being "icro.htm". I'm going to include TinyURL's this time but it's still a good idea for folks to learn how to spot a broken link and how to fix it. If you click reply to the email, when it opens, just move the cursor down and remove any spaces, characters (>), etc. until the link is put back together... kind of like Humpty Dumpty... so the first link should have ended as .org/pages/micro.htm and the second link should have ended as .org/pages/micro2.htm and the last link should have ended as /pond/index.html Most links will end with either .htm or .html except for a link to a photograph which might then end in .jpg or .gif, etc. You know the biblical saying... give a man a fixed link and he'll surf for a day, teach a man to fix links and he'll surf the net forever... or something like that. ;-) Anyhow... here's the TinyURL's. http://tinyurl.com/micro-page1 http://tinyurl.com/micro-page2 http://tinyurl.com/pond-critters Did you look at images of Planaria??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debra Melton Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Speaking of worms Thanks Lenny: The first two links are not in the archives. I've looked through the others and don't see it. If I can catch the bugger I'll put it under the microscope and get a picture to post. Thanks for your help. Deb On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... > wrote: > > > 1-1/2" is a little longer than I've ever seen in my tanks but check > out photos of Planaria and see if this is what you are seeing. Also > see this recent post out here > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46023 which > includes the below info. > > Check out these pages of critters and things that naturally occur in > our tanks and see if you can identify it and let us know. The third > link is more about worms so check it out first. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070523055718/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro.htm > (page 1) > > http://web.archive.org/web/20060716164019/http://www.menunkatuck.org/pages/m icro2.htm > (page 2) > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm > > http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Tank_critters.shtml > > http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.html?http://microscopy-uk.org.uk/pond/inde x.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of bluefish1955 > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Speaking of worms > > I am looking for some ideas to research a worm I found in one of my > tanks two days ago. It is a plant only tank with a few MTS and > possibly nerite snails in it (hitchhikers). I recently purchased a > batch of plants online and dumped them in this grow out tank. > > The "worm" is about 1 1/2 inches long, a nice light tan color (crayola > crayons might call is flesh colored). It is kind of shaped like a > ribbon, the "skin" looks smooth, and what I would guess is the head > looks like a black dot (about the size of a pin head). It undulates > through the water and while I watched it, it was all over the tank. I > saw it around 6 pm and the tank lights were on. My husband saw it too. > I say that because I haven't seen it again. The tank has a hob filter > hanging on it and I have not seen anything like it in the filter media. > > Anybody have any guesses as to what it is? Or, where to look for pictures? > I have googled all kinds of strings of words and have seen enough > pictures to make me light headed. It is not a tape worm, not a peanut > worm, or anything that has hair, antenna, or color striation. The tank > is and has always been freshwater. > > Any help appreciated. > > Deb > Ocean Springs, MS > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46304	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

I use the frozen blood worms, I try not to buy freeze dried as often as possible ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Unless it's the type of blood worms (freeze dried??.. but I'm sure you're > rehydrating them... right?), I don't see how this could be accurate. In > their natural environment, insects, insect larvae, etc. are part of their > mostly carnivorous diet. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Microgeophagus_ramirezi.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Microgeophagus_ramirezi.html> > > FOOD: Live; Artemia , bloodworms, glassworms, small insects, insect > larvae, > Tubifex; pellets; occasionally flakes. (END SNIP) > > LOTS of reading in the collection of 41 posts about Rams at TheKrib.com. > > http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true > > Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an > auction for > German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. Does anyone > know if > this is true? > If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, I do > occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46305	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

Oh I can do that, I'll send a link with the (closed) auction ;) http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/closed.cgi?view_closed_item&fwmixed1264561247 This is the cut and paste from the auction of the seller's words (so you don't have to skim through it all to find it, LOL) ***************"Lastly, I am going to tell you one other thing before I wrap this up. If you feed these Rams frozen bloodworms they WILL DIE. Maybe not the first time you do it but bloodworms WILL KILL these Rams so if you plan on feeding them bloodworms then don't even bother bidding on my Rams." ***************Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, since you're the first person to have ever posted about it, that > I've > read... the rumor obviously started with you. > > YOU'RE IT!!! > > Now you have to go find someone else to blame it on and tag them. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's > true > > Hmm, good to know, thanks Lainey. > I wonder where that rumor got started now ;) > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Well, I can answer this one! > > > > Mine are gorging on bloodworms as we speak, as they have been doing > > for months, and as everyone is well aware, they are breeding for me on > > the dread bloodworm diet:) > > > > I give them lots of other types of foods, but bloodworms is a favorite > > which they receive about four times weekly. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an > >> auction for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. > >> Does anyone know if this is true? > >> If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, I > >> do occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. > >> > >> Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46306	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

Well.. what he is saying could be said about anything... since everything eventually dies. For example, "If you eat, you will die!"... but... "If you don't eat, you'll just die faster!" ;-) The same thing could be said about a so-called healthy vegetable diet compared to a much tastier T-bone and hamburger diet. MEAT! MEAT! MEAT! MEAT! MEAT! (Sorry... got caught up in my cheerleading! LOL) Basically, all life forms start to die from the day they are born. There are thousands of fish keepers that have fed their Rams various forms of bloodworms without ever saying or even implying that the bloodworms directly killed the Rams. I'm not saying that one should feed them bloodworms as their primary diet but as part of a varied diet, I do not see how they would contribute to the death of a carnivorous or omnivorous fish. First, he mentions "frozen bloodworms" but later just mentions bloodworms so you should probably write him and ask. Or is it just a particular brand or what? Or is it just his Rams? And... at the end of your email, make sure you tag him with "YOU'RE IT!", so you can get that monkey off your back. LOL Or... better yet, you could just write him and say "YOU LIE!" Sorry... got caught up while watching the SOTU. I've only screamed it a few times so far tonight. (My regards to Congressman Joe Wilson (R-SC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgce06Yw2ro ;-)) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true Oh I can do that, I'll send a link with the (closed) auction ;) http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/closed.cgi?view_closed_item&fwmixed12 64561247 This is the cut and paste from the auction of the seller's words (so you don't have to skim through it all to find it, LOL) *************** "Lastly, I am going to tell you one other thing before I wrap this up. If you feed these Rams frozen bloodworms they WILL DIE. Maybe not the first time you do it but bloodworms WILL KILL these Rams so if you plan on feeding them bloodworms then don't even bother bidding on my Rams." *************** Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well, since you're the first person to have ever posted about it, that > I've read... the rumor obviously started with you. > > YOU'RE IT!!! > > Now you have to go find someone else to blame it on and tag them. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if > it's true > > Hmm, good to know, thanks Lainey. > I wonder where that rumor got started now ;) > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Well, I can answer this one! > > > > Mine are gorging on bloodworms as we speak, as they have been doing > > for months, and as everyone is well aware, they are breeding for me > > on the dread bloodworm diet:) > > > > I give them lots of other types of foods, but bloodworms is a > > favorite which they receive about four times weekly. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an > >> auction for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. > >> Does anyone know if this is true? > >> If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, > >> I do occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. > >> > >> Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46307	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

I would ask but the seller has a temper and refuses to answer emails that upset him, LOL. I'd probably not get an answer, even if he read it ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well.. what he is saying could be said about anything... since everything > eventually dies. > > For example, "If you eat, you will die!"... but... "If you don't eat, > you'll > just die faster!" ;-) > > The same thing could be said about a so-called healthy vegetable diet > compared to a much tastier T-bone and hamburger diet. MEAT! MEAT! MEAT! > MEAT! MEAT! (Sorry... got caught up in my cheerleading! LOL) > > Basically, all life forms start to die from the day they are born. > > There are thousands of fish keepers that have fed their Rams various forms > of bloodworms without ever saying or even implying that the bloodworms > directly killed the Rams. I'm not saying that one should feed them > bloodworms as their primary diet but as part of a varied diet, I do > not see > how they would contribute to the death of a carnivorous or omnivorous > fish. > > First, he mentions "frozen bloodworms" but later just mentions > bloodworms so > you should probably write him and ask. Or is it just a particular brand or > what? Or is it just his Rams? And... at the end of your email, make sure > you tag him with "YOU'RE IT!", so you can get that monkey off your back. > LOL > > Or... better yet, you could just write him and say "YOU LIE!" Sorry... got > caught up while watching the SOTU. I've only screamed it a few times > so far > tonight. (My regards to Congressman Joe Wilson (R-SC) > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgce06Yw2ro > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgce06Yw2ro> ;-)) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's > true > > Oh I can do that, I'll send a link with the (closed) auction ;) > http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/closed.cgi?view_closed_item&fwmixed12 > <http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/closed.cgi?view_closed_item&fwmixed12> > 64561247 > > This is the cut and paste from the auction of the seller's words (so you > don't have to skim through it all to find it, LOL) > > *************** > > "Lastly, I am going to tell you one other thing before I wrap this up. If > you feed these Rams frozen bloodworms they WILL DIE. Maybe not the first > time you do it but bloodworms WILL KILL these Rams so if you plan on > feeding > them bloodworms then don't even bother bidding on my Rams." > > *************** > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well, since you're the first person to have ever posted about it, that > > I've read... the rumor obviously started with you. > > > > YOU'RE IT!!! > > > > Now you have to go find someone else to blame it on and tag them. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:02 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if > > it's true > > > > Hmm, good to know, thanks Lainey. > > I wonder where that rumor got started now ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Well, I can answer this one! > > > > > > Mine are gorging on bloodworms as we speak, as they have been doing > > > for months, and as everyone is well aware, they are breeding for me > > > on the dread bloodworm diet:) > > > > > > I give them lots of other types of foods, but bloodworms is a > > > favorite which they receive about four times weekly. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an > > >> auction for German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. > > >> Does anyone know if this is true? > > >> If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, > > >> I do occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. > > >> > > >> Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46308	From: William M	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

It could also be that he had a package of black worms that had been thawed and refrozen a time or more which would make them bad to feed to any fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I use the frozen blood worms, I try not to buy freeze dried as often as > possible ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Unless it's the type of blood worms (freeze dried??.. but I'm sure you're > > rehydrating them... right?), I don't see how this could be accurate. In > > their natural environment, insects, insect larvae, etc. are part of their > > mostly carnivorous diet. > > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Microgeophagus_ramirezi.html > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Microgeophagus_ramirezi.html> > > > > FOOD: Live; Artemia , bloodworms, glassworms, small insects, insect > > larvae, > > Tubifex; pellets; occasionally flakes. (END SNIP) > > > > LOTS of reading in the collection of 41 posts about Rams at TheKrib.com. > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true > > > > Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an > > auction for > > German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. Does anyone > > know if > > this is true? > > If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this summer, I do > > occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. > > > > Amber > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46309	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/27/2010
Subject: Re: Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if it's true

Properly frozen and packaged in an air tight container, as long as the perishable item remains cold it should be able to be refrozen, it will possibly cause some freezer burn later on if kept frozen for a long time of course. I'm not sure if worms freeze the same as fish, but it shouldn't be too different. It is safe for humans to eat seafood that has been flash frozen and vacuum packed, if it has thawed and is still cold to the touch (such as during shipment in warm weather) you can safely either cook it and eat it, or you can refreeze it. As I said, as long as it is still cold, and has not gotten to room/outside temperatures, also the vacuum seal has to still be sealed, if there is air in the bag then the seafood would no longer be good. Can you tell what my last job was before Fed Ex? LOL, Yes I shipped frozen seafood out of Alaska to the rest of the US for the fancy dinner parties and such ;) Amber William M wrote: > > It could also be that he had a package of black worms that had been > thawed and refrozen a time or more which would make them bad to feed > to any fish. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I use the frozen blood worms, I try not to buy freeze dried as often as > > possible ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Unless it's the type of blood worms (freeze dried??.. but I'm sure > you're > > > rehydrating them... right?), I don't see how this could be > accurate. In > > > their natural environment, insects, insect larvae, etc. are part > of their > > > mostly carnivorous diet. > > > > > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Microgeophagus_ramirezi.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Microgeophagus_ramirezi.html> > > > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Microgeophagus_ramirezi.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Microgeophagus_ramirezi.html>> > > > > > > FOOD: Live; Artemia , bloodworms, glassworms, small insects, insect > > > larvae, > > > Tubifex; pellets; occasionally flakes. (END SNIP) > > > > > > LOTS of reading in the collection of 41 posts about Rams at > TheKrib.com. > > > > > > http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html> > > > <http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/P-ramirezi.html>> > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:56 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heard a rumor about Ram's, want to see if > it's true > > > > > > Okay so I read on an aquabid.com auction that Ram's (this was an > > > auction for > > > German blue rams), will die if you feed them bloodworms. Does anyone > > > know if > > > this is true? > > > If so, that could be the reason why I slowly lost mine this > summer, I do > > > occasionally feed my tanks blood worms as a treat. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46310	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: So Lainey, where's the baby update? ;)

So haven't heard anything about your babies this week, everything going good with those little Rams? I noticed the 9 day old pic in your folder, they grow fast it looks like :) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46311	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Again, my apologies for the delayed reply. I'm using Firefox right now. I switched to it when Upromise couldn't work on IE8 and Microsoft wouldn't let me go back to IE7. Upromise now works with IE8 and I tried to return to that last week, but it kept crashing on me. I may give it another go eventually. I broke the cuttlebone into chucks and put it on top of the biofilter in the HOB, but got very little change in KH. I had forgotten about the baking soda method. Thanks for reminding me. The pH gradually drops between PWCs. I'm doing well if I can keep it at 6.5. The GH is pretty constant around 160 ppm or slightly less. Ammonia and nitrites have been zero since last winter. Nitrates and pH are the only reasons for PWCs. The tank has no living plants in it, but it does have a very nice crop of algae on the plastic plants and on the glass. It wasn't Jingle Bell Rock. It was the wassail. That stuff gets better with age! ;-) Actually, I put that pic in, because I was thinking of moving the tank in front of that window and using that as the light source for the aquaponics if/when I ever get a round tuit. Using the flash makes it difficult to see how much light comes from the window. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> What browser are you using? I use IE8 and rarely have problems although when trying a message search on Yahoo Groups it will often give poor and incomplete results but never any problems with the photo pages. I just use an advanced Google search to search the messages of the particular group I'm searching. Did you break up the cuttlebone into pieces? A whole one would work some but breaking it up gives a lot more surface area for the water to go through and around to help it dissolve. Also, what is your pH? Lower pH water (acidic) will cause it to dissolve at a slightly faster rate than higher pH water (basic). Depending on your filter system, you could put the pieces in the end flow of your water before it returns to the tank or you might have to put it in the reservoir of an HOB filter. I was wondering about the Christmas tree... but next time, turn off Jingle Bell Rock while you're snapping photos. ;-) If your pH is staying stable, it could be a false reading on your KH level. You would have to get it double checked to be more certain of the level. There are also other easy ways to raise the KH dosing with Baking Soda but the *natural* way of using cuttlebone or crushed coral and letting it dissolve as needed is simpler. Here's a simple baking soda calculator and info. Read ALL of the links too. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sorry for the long delay in replying. Life got busy and I've been fighting a bug since the day after Christmas. For some reason, YahooGroups is not giving me access to the Aquatic Life photo pages. Well it does for about a minute and then pops me out of the group. My KH wants to sit near zero without plants, so maybe adding them is not such a great idea. I've even put cuttlebone in the filter and haven't seen much of a change in readings, so I would need to keep up the water changes anyway just to keep the pH from crashing, as it does tend to sink some between weekly changes. Well darn! My discretionary money will probably be going for a TNR project on our neighborhood feral cat colony anyway. I thought it was just the mom and pop of the kitten I raised last summer, but now there are at least six other cats living outdoors within a two house radius of us. None of them resemble "my" ferals in any way. While I DO appreciate the fact that I haven't seen a wild rat in over a year, I don't like the idea of finding dead and dying kittens when the group outgrows local resources. I was just lucky to find Mufasa while he was still healthy enough to save. Soooo I guess I'll play with aquaponics some other time, although I might try Eric's HOB idea with a baby spider plant or two, just for the fun of it. Ooooh! YahooGroups finally let me in long enough to upload my pics. I'm still open to suggestions on aquaponics setups. I just may not find the time or money to do it real soon. And I need to figure out how to keep the GH and KH up, too. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/699297662/pic/list My folder is DebR's Goldfish. Yes, that's a Christmas tree still up on Jan 25th. I like looking at it in the evening when there aren't any frantic holiday preparations to distract me. It comes down this week, though. :-( DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure if you're checking your GH and KH but the more "life forms" you have drawing off the ecology of the tank, the faster the KH will be used up and the faster the minerals that make up your GH will diminish... as well as all of the other macro nutrients, vitamins and minerals that we can not easily test for. Yes, lots of plants will keep the nitrates from climbing as fast and possibly keep them near zero for the life of the tank but at a certain point, the KH level will get so low, the pH of the tank will crash which could kill off all of the fish. Further, the hormone levels in the tank will continually increase so if all of your fish are not full size, they will get stunted and even full size fish will feel increasing levels of stress due to feeling more overcrowded as the hormone levels rise. All this said, unless someone is doing PWC's on a regular basis, even a heavily planted tank can suffer water quality issues... often the kind that does not even show up on our tests. This is why it's good to test your tank for everything (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, etc.) on a regular basis until you *learn* your tank and it's ecology... but yes, if all of the other water parameters are staying in good shape between PWC's, the plants will keep the nitrates lower, CO2 lower and increase the O2 levels which are all better for the fish... so that could extend the time period in between PWC's... although I do not recommend it. Fresh clean water is still the best thing we can ever give our fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46312	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them since Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you asked about feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any as you just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able to get? I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any further thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need something larger. While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you might want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" longer (at 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & surface), allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. Second to that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 3/4" H) if you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that your pair could well spawn again within another week. You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them BBS, or if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you got back to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How about your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in on your decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46313	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Ray - here is my last update

Hi Ray - Did you miss this post from the 21st? I wrote this at your request for details. Maybe you missed it? I have new pics from today, but it takes a while for them to get approved, will write when they do... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com Begin forwarded message: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Date: January 24, 2010 1:21:31 AM EST > To: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Ram fry update - day nine > >> Since the ram fry became free swimming, I have been feeding them >> four times daily. I just can't tell what they are eating, if >> anything, that I feed. I offer two to three drops of wardley >> liquid fry food, and a tiny smidge of live baby brine. I see a lot >> of brine swimming around after I feed, so I think the babies are >> having trouble eating them. I have made an effort to keep lots of >> floating plants like willow moss plus lots of mulm in the tank to >> harbor insuforia and other small edibles in case the fry will eat >> those things better than the foods I am offering. They do seem >> hungry and they hunt for food, but I just have no idea what >> they're eating. The only reason I know they're eating is the fact >> that they are getting bigger and they're still alive. Today I >> started offering Hikari First Bites powder and I did see them >> going up to the surface and eating that so I think I'll start >> switching over from the liquid fry to the First Bites now. >> >> Temp is 84. >> >> I am using an Azoo sponge filter and also a Red Sea nano filter >> with a sponge on the intake. >> >> I keep a bright light on over the tank for eight hours a day, but >> they are near a window and exposed to light for twelve, so I feed >> throughout a twelve hour period. >> >> I have been vacuuming with a turkey baster and airline hose once >> per day and replacing 2 to 3 out of ten gallons water each day. I >> have to put the discard water into a white bowl and then net out >> the fry that get in there. Then, I have to warm up the RO >> replacement water. The cleaning is my least favorite part of this >> chore-wise. >> >> But overall, it's pretty fun so far! >> >> Today's pictures in new photos or here at the bottom of the page >> (and on the second page): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ >> AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Jan 23, 2010, at 12:50 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >> >>> Lainey, Don't be too concerned about lowering the temperature. Rams >>> PREFER it up in that range. You may want to lower it to 82 o in >>> about a month if >>> it makes YOU happy, but that's not necessary despite popular >>> notions that >>> they do well in more "normal" tropical temperatures even of 76 o >>> -- 78 o. >>> Glad to hear they're all doing well. Can you fill us in more >>> about what's >>> happening with them? I'm sure many are interested in just what >>> you've decided >>> as their light duration and how many times a day you're feeding >>> them. Ray >>> </HTML> >>> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46314	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little guys) - I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this for you. They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use small amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, they are huge now:) I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How soon do you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males begin to fight? I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the rock - I'm not even checking in there! Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: http:// groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list? mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them since > Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you > asked about > feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any > as you > just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able > to get? > I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any > further > thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need > something > larger. > > While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you > might > want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" > longer (at > 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & > surface), > allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. > Second to > that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > 3/4" H) if > you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that > your > pair could well spawn again within another week. > > You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them > BBS, or > if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you > got back > to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How > about > your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in > on your > decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46315	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see things going well for you. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little guys) - > > I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you > missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this for you. > > They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use small > amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, they > are huge now:) > > I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How soon do > you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon > before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males begin > to fight? > > I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... > > Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the rock - > I'm not even checking in there! > > Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: http:// > groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list? > mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > >> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them since >> Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you >> asked about >> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any >> as you >> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able >> to get? >> I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any >> further >> thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need >> something >> larger. >> >> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you >> might >> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" >> longer (at >> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & >> surface), >> allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. >> Second to >> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 >> 3/4" H) if >> you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that >> your >> pair could well spawn again within another week. >> >> You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them >> BBS, or >> if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you >> got back >> to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How >> about >> your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in >> on your >> decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46316	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Thanks, Amber. Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? :) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see things going > well for > you. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little guys) - > > > > I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you > > missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this > for you. > > > > They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use small > > amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, they > > are huge now:) > > > > I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How > soon do > > you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon > > before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males begin > > to fight? > > > > I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... > > > > Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the rock - > > I'm not even checking in there! > > > > Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: http:// > > groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list? > > mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them > since > >> Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you > >> asked about > >> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any > >> as you > >> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able > >> to get? > >> I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any > >> further > >> thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need > >> something > >> larger. > >> > >> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you > >> might > >> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" > >> longer (at > >> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & > >> surface), > >> allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. > >> Second to > >> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > >> 3/4" H) if > >> you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that > >> your > >> pair could well spawn again within another week. > >> > >> You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them > >> BBS, or > >> if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you > >> got back > >> to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How > >> about > >> your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in > >> on your > >> decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46317	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the poor little things, I'm not sure what they don't like about my tanks but they don't like them long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the past have slowly died over time. *sniff* I do love them though. The longest I've had one live in one of my tanks was about 3 months. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Thanks, Amber. > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? > > :) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see things going >> well for >> you. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little guys) - >>> >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you >>> missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this >>> >> for you. >> >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use small >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, they >>> are huge now:) >>> >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How >>> >> soon do >> >>> you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males begin >>> to fight? >>> >>> I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... >>> >>> Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the rock - >>> I'm not even checking in there! >>> >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: http:// >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list? >>> mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them >>>> >> since >> >>>> Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you >>>> asked about >>>> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any >>>> as you >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able >>>> to get? >>>> I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any >>>> further >>>> thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need >>>> something >>>> larger. >>>> >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you >>>> might >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" >>>> longer (at >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & >>>> surface), >>>> allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. >>>> Second to >>>> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 >>>> 3/4" H) if >>>> you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that >>>> your >>>> pair could well spawn again within another week. >>>> >>>> You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them >>>> BBS, or >>>> if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you >>>> got back >>>> to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How >>>> about >>>> your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in >>>> on your >>>> decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46318	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Amber, Did you know that blue rams are short-lived? I have read that they are kind of like annual plants in the wild, or bi-ennials. They live one to two years. So, if you get them as adults, they might only live three months max anyways. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the poor little things, > I'm > not sure what they don't like about my tanks but they don't like them > long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the past have slowly died > over time. *sniff* > I do love them though. The longest I've had one live in one of my > tanks > was about 3 months. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? > > > > :) > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see things going > >> well for > >> you. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little > guys) - > >>> > >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you > >>> missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this > >>> > >> for you. > >> > >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use > small > >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, > they > >>> are huge now:) > >>> > >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How > >>> > >> soon do > >> > >>> you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon > >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males > begin > >>> to fight? > >>> > >>> I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... > >>> > >>> Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the > rock - > >>> I'm not even checking in there! > >>> > >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: > http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ > list? > >>> mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them > >>>> > >> since > >> > >>>> Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you > >>>> asked about > >>>> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to > get any > >>>> as you > >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able > >>>> to get? > >>>> I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any > >>>> further > >>>> thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need > >>>> something > >>>> larger. > >>>> > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you > >>>> might > >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only > another 6" > >>>> longer (at > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area > (bottom & > >>>> surface), > >>>> allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. > >>>> Second to > >>>> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > >>>> 3/4" H) if > >>>> you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you > that > >>>> your > >>>> pair could well spawn again within another week. > >>>> > >>>> You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them > >>>> BBS, or > >>>> if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither > have you > >>>> got back > >>>> to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How > >>>> about > >>>> your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill > us in > >>>> on your > >>>> decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> > >> Thank You. > >> > >>> ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > >>> > >> ((((�> > >> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >> subject)" <- > >> > >>> <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > >>> > >> ��`�.��. > >> > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > >>> > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > >>> > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > >> and post replies. > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > >>> > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46319	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Hold it!  Hold it!   Amber, are you trying to say that you have worse luck than I do with Rams?   That's not fair or possible!  My record so far, covering 18 months.  Out of 12 German Rams purchased within this time period, one lonely female left!    Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely you have other fish left to keep you occupied?  Yes I do!  In that same 29-gallon tank I have 1 albino Cory cat and 1 Neon Tetra!  Oh yes, in my 20-gallon long?  Zero!  Zip!  Na-Da!   I forgot to mention Amber, that 55-gallon we talked about?  Why get it, I have nothing to put in it! Now I know what your thinking! Bill, why don't you just buy more Rams? Hey, no problem Amber, where? The cost of the flight would put the cost of the fish right out of my reach, even if I were standing on a chair to reach it! Take it easy and always remember: "If it can go wrong, it will happen to "Bill" --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 PM Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the poor little things, I'm not sure what they don't like about my tanks but they don't like them long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the past have slowly died over time. *sniff* I do love them though. The longest I've had one live in one of my tanks was about 3 months. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Thanks, Amber. > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? > > :) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > >    >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see things going  >> well for >> you. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>      >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little guys) - >>> >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you >>> missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this  >>>        >> for you. >>      >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use small >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, they >>> are huge now:) >>> >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How  >>>        >> soon do >>      >>> you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males begin >>> to fight? >>> >>> I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... >>> >>> Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the rock - >>> I'm not even checking in there! >>> >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: http:// >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list? >>> mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >>> >>> >>>        >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them  >>>>          >> since >>      >>>> Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you >>>> asked about >>>> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any >>>> as you >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able >>>> to get? >>>> I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any >>>> further >>>> thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need >>>> something >>>> larger. >>>> >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you >>>> might >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" >>>> longer (at >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & >>>> surface), >>>> allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. >>>> Second to >>>> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 >>>> 3/4" H) if >>>> you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that >>>> your >>>> pair could well spawn again within another week. >>>> >>>> You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them >>>> BBS, or >>>> if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you >>>> got back >>>> to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How >>>> about >>>> your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in >>>> on your >>>> decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> >>>> >>>> >>>>          >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  >>>        >> Thank You. >>      >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>>        >> ((((º> >>      >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  >>>        >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original  >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old  >> subject)" <- >>      >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>>        >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>      >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  >>>        >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on  >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>      >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the  >>>        >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>      >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail  >>>        >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group  >> and post replies. >>      >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual  >>>        >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>      >>> >>> >>>        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >    ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46320	From: harry perry	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

I've been dealing with Mark for years. Good prices healthy fish. You really should check this out. I don't get anything out of this. I know you will be pleased like hundreds of other folks you trust him. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ Mark is also a past president of the International Betta Congress and a member of this group. Harry --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:03 PM   Hold it!  Hold it!   Amber, are you trying to say that you have worse luck than I do with Rams?   That's not fair or possible!  My record so far, covering 18 months.  Out of 12 German Rams purchased within this time period, one lonely female left!    Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely you have other fish left to keep you occupied?  Yes I do!  In that same 29-gallon tank I have 1 albino Cory cat and 1 Neon Tetra!  Oh yes, in my 20-gallon long?  Zero!  Zip!  Na-Da!   I forgot to mention Amber, that 55-gallon we talked about?  Why get it, I have nothing to put in it! Now I know what your thinking! Bill, why don't you just buy more Rams? Hey, no problem Amber, where? The cost of the flight would put the cost of the fish right out of my reach, even if I were standing on a chair to reach it! Take it easy and always remember: "If it can go wrong, it will happen to "Bill" --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 PM Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the poor little things, I'm not sure what they don't like about my tanks but they don't like them long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the past have slowly died over time. *sniff* I do love them though. The longest I've had one live in one of my tanks was about 3 months. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Thanks, Amber. > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? > > :) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > >    >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see things going  >> well for >> you. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>      >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little guys) - >>> >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you >>> missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this  >>>        >> for you. >>      >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use small >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, they >>> are huge now:) >>> >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How  >>>        >> soon do >>      >>> you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males begin >>> to fight? >>> >>> I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... >>> >>> Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the rock - >>> I'm not even checking in there! >>> >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: http:// >>> groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ photos/album/ 2049115566/ pic/list? >>> mode=tn&order= ordinal&start= 21&count= 20&dir=asc >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com >>> >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com wrote: >>> >>> >>>        >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them  >>>>          >> since >>      >>>> Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you >>>> asked about >>>> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any >>>> as you >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able >>>> to get? >>>> I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any >>>> further >>>> thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need >>>> something >>>> larger. >>>> >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you >>>> might >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" >>>> longer (at >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & >>>> surface), >>>> allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. >>>> Second to >>>> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 >>>> 3/4" H) if >>>> you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that >>>> your >>>> pair could well spawn again within another week. >>>> >>>> You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them >>>> BBS, or >>>> if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you >>>> got back >>>> to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How >>>> about >>>> your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in >>>> on your >>>> decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> >>>> >>>> >>>>          >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  >>>        >> Thank You. >>      >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>>        >> ((((º> >>      >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  >>>        >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original  >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old  >> subject)" <- >>      >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>>        >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>      >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  >>>        >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on  >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>      >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the  >>>        >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>      >>> Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail  >>>        >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group  >> and post replies. >>      >>> Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual  >>>        >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>      >>> >>> >>>        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >    ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46321	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms

Try Googling "leech". I have one in my pleco's tank ( at least I think it's one) I believe came in with plants. I know it's a leech because it has attached to me once when I was pulling out hornworth. I haven't seen it in a while, so any guess is good about it's wereabouts. Enid In a message dated 1/27/2010 7:29:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, dmelton2@... writes: I am looking for some ideas to research a worm I found in one of my tanks two days ago. It is a plant only tank with a few MTS and possibly nerite snails in it (hitchhikers)I am looking for some ideas to research a worm I found in one of my tanks two days The "worm" is about 1 1/2 inches long, a nice light tan color (crayola crayons might call is flesh colored). It is kind of shaped like a ribbon, the "skin" looks smooth, and what I would guess is the head looks like a black dot (about the size of a pin head). It undulates through the water and while I watched it, it was all over the tank. I saw it around 6 pm and the tank lights were on. My husband saw it too. I say that because I haven't seen it again. The tank has a hob filter hanging on it and I have not seen anything like it in the filter media. Anybody have any guesses as to what it is? Or, where to look for pictures? I have googled all kinds of strings of words and have seen enough pictures to make me light headed. It is not a tape worm, not a peanut worm, or anything that has hair, antenna, or color striation. The tank is and has always been freshwater. Any help appreciated. Deb Ocean Springs, MS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46322	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Thanks Harry, I do know of Mark and the quality of his products.  Unfortunately for me, quantity is the problem.  The cost would be out of this world.  We are not talking about six fish here.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:32 PM > I've been dealing with Mark for > years. Good prices healthy fish. You really should check > this out. I don't get anything out of this. I know you will > be pleased like hundreds of other folks you trust him. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > Mark is also a past president of the International Betta > Congress and a member of this group. > > Harry > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:03 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > >   > > >     >       >       >       Hold it!  Hold it! > >   > > Amber, are you trying to say that you have worse luck than > I do with Rams? > >   > > That's not fair or possible!  My record so far, covering > 18 months.  Out of 12 German Rams purchased within this > time period, one lonely female left!  > >   > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely you have other fish > left to keep you occupied?  Yes I do!  In that same > 29-gallon tank I have 1 albino Cory cat and 1 Neon > Tetra!  Oh yes, in my 20-gallon long?  Zero!  > Zip!  Na-Da! > >   > > I forgot to mention Amber, that 55-gallon we talked > about?  Why get it, I have nothing to put in it!  > Now I know what your thinking! > > Bill, why don't you just buy more Rams?  > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > > The cost of the flight would put the cost of the fish right > out of > > my reach, even if I were standing on a chair to reach it! > > > > Take it easy and always remember:  "If it can go > wrong, it will happen > > to "Bill" > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > com> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 PM > > > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the poor little > things, I'm > > not sure what they don't like about my tanks but they don't > like them > > long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the past have > slowly died > > over time. *sniff* > > I do love them though. The longest I've had one live in one > of my tanks > > was about 3 months. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? > > > > > > :) > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >    > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see > things going  > > >> well for > > >> you. > > >> > > >> Amber > > >> > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > >>      > > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest > in the little guys) - > > >>> > > >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do > like. Ray, I think you > > >>> missed my post explaining my "system" so > far...I reposted this  > > >>>        > > >> for you. > > >>      > > >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and the First > Bites now. I use small > > >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You will see > in the pictures, they > > >>> are huge now:) > > >>> > > >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to > the cause. How  > > >>>        > > >> soon do > > >>      > > >>> you think they will need it? Also, can you > please tell me how soon > > >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age > will the males begin > > >>> to fight? > > >>> > > >>> I can't figure out what to do with them yet > long term... > > >>> > > >>> Believe me, the parents are back at it in the > bushes with the rock - > > >>> I'm not even checking in there! > > >>> > > >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or > in new photos: http:// > > >>> groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ > photos/album/ 2049115566/ pic/list? > > >>> mode=tn&order= ordinal&start= > 21&count= 20&dir=asc > > >>> > > >>> Lainey > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > >>> > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@ > wmconnect. com wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>        > > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? > Haven't heard much on them  > > >>>>          > > >> since > > >>      > > >>>> Sunday, and then you only said they were > eating BBS. Noticed you > > >>>> asked about > > >>>> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware > you were able to get any > > >>>> as you > > >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of > powdered food were you able > > >>>> to get? > > >>>> I presume they must be growing at least a > bit. Have you given any > > >>>> further > > >>>> thought about getting a larger tank for > theM? They'll soon need > > >>>> something > > >>>> larger. > > >>>> > > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, > if you have the room you > > >>>> might > > >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank > which is only another 6" > > >>>> longer (at > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have > the most area (bottom & > > >>>> surface), > > >>>> allowing for greater room to grow and > maximum gasous exchange. > > >>>> Second to > > >>>> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at > 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > >>>> you didn't want to go with the extra > width. I would remind you that > > >>>> your > > >>>> pair could well spawn again within another > week. > > >>>> > > >>>> You haven't indicated to us what you've > decided when feeding them > > >>>> BBS, or > > >>>> if they were all near a uniform size to > accept it. Neither have you > > >>>> got back > > >>>> to us concerning how many feedings per day > you've decided on. How > > >>>> about > > >>>> your methods for cleaning off the bottom > debris? Please fill us in > > >>>> on your > > >>>> decisions and how things are going. Ray > </HTML> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>          > > >>> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > >>> > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below > it when replying,  > > >>>        > > >> Thank You. > > >>      > > >>> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > >>>        > > >> ((((º> > > >>      > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is NOT  > > >>>        > > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the original  > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > >> subject)" <- > > >>      > > >>> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > >>>        > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > >>      > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > >>> > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of  > > >>>        > > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option > by clicking on  > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > >>      > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the  > > >>>        > > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in > a single email > > >>      > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail  > > >>>        > > >> option where you will still be able to read > messages on the group  > > >> and post replies. > > >>      > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual  > > >>>        > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >>      > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>        > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You.. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to > receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time > in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the > No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to > receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >    > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive > the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No > E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     >       > >     >     > > > > > > >   > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46323	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Hydroponics

Well the cuttlebone will not work instantly. This is why it's a good media to use as it will slowly dissolved and slowly raise the KH level (or just maintain it depending on how much you use) and you really don't have to monitor it once you get to the level that you desire. The key is adding a little more of it to your filter until you start to see a slight rise in KH and then take some out if it starts to rise too fast. Once you find the right amount, then it's just a matter of adding a little more new pieces as the older stuff dissolves. If you wanted quicker changes that are more work to monitor but more precise in the changes, then the baking soda works but even it has to be changed slowly, as the article with the calculator advises. Then, with each PWC, you'll have to dose the incoming water with the correct amount of baking soda to raise the KH of the incoming water to be equal to or possibly a little higher than the tank if you wanted to raise it a little more. I like the cuttlebone (others like using crushed coral) for letting it dissolve slowly and naturally as needed since it will dissolve at a faster rate as the pH lowers and then as the pH slowly rises, it will dissolve slower. Baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate whereas cuttlebone is calcium carbonate so it will also add a little calcium to your water. Even though you already have medium hard water, the added calcium is OK... and with Goldfish, the added calcium and carbonate are both good. BE WARNED that if you move the tank in front of the window, you'll increase your likelihood of getting a LOT of algae in the tank. This can be mitigated if you cover the back and two sides of the tank so the tank does not get any outside lighting.... and the top also, so you'll probably want to use some kind of black trays for holding your hydroponics instead of the lighting egg crate material. Natural sunlight will cause an algae outbreak faster than anything else. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Hydroponics Again, my apologies for the delayed reply. I'm using Firefox right now. I switched to it when Upromise couldn't work on IE8 and Microsoft wouldn't let me go back to IE7. Upromise now works with IE8 and I tried to return to that last week, but it kept crashing on me. I may give it another go eventually. I broke the cuttlebone into chucks and put it on top of the biofilter in the HOB, but got very little change in KH. I had forgotten about the baking soda method. Thanks for reminding me. The pH gradually drops between PWCs. I'm doing well if I can keep it at 6.5. The GH is pretty constant around 160 ppm or slightly less. Ammonia and nitrites have been zero since last winter. Nitrates and pH are the only reasons for PWCs. The tank has no living plants in it, but it does have a very nice crop of algae on the plastic plants and on the glass. It wasn't Jingle Bell Rock. It was the wassail. That stuff gets better with age! ;-) Actually, I put that pic in, because I was thinking of moving the tank in front of that window and using that as the light source for the aquaponics if/when I ever get a round tuit. Using the flash makes it difficult to see how much light comes from the window. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> What browser are you using? I use IE8 and rarely have problems although when trying a message search on Yahoo Groups it will often give poor and incomplete results but never any problems with the photo pages. I just use an advanced Google search to search the messages of the particular group I'm searching. Did you break up the cuttlebone into pieces? A whole one would work some but breaking it up gives a lot more surface area for the water to go through and around to help it dissolve. Also, what is your pH? Lower pH water (acidic) will cause it to dissolve at a slightly faster rate than higher pH water (basic). Depending on your filter system, you could put the pieces in the end flow of your water before it returns to the tank or you might have to put it in the reservoir of an HOB filter. I was wondering about the Christmas tree... but next time, turn off Jingle Bell Rock while you're snapping photos. ;-) If your pH is staying stable, it could be a false reading on your KH level. You would have to get it double checked to be more certain of the level. There are also other easy ways to raise the KH dosing with Baking Soda but the *natural* way of using cuttlebone or crushed coral and letting it dissolve as needed is simpler. Here's a simple baking soda calculator and info. Read ALL of the links too. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sorry for the long delay in replying. Life got busy and I've been fighting a bug since the day after Christmas. For some reason, YahooGroups is not giving me access to the Aquatic Life photo pages. Well it does for about a minute and then pops me out of the group. My KH wants to sit near zero without plants, so maybe adding them is not such a great idea. I've even put cuttlebone in the filter and haven't seen much of a change in readings, so I would need to keep up the water changes anyway just to keep the pH from crashing, as it does tend to sink some between weekly changes. Well darn! My discretionary money will probably be going for a TNR project on our neighborhood feral cat colony anyway. I thought it was just the mom and pop of the kitten I raised last summer, but now there are at least six other cats living outdoors within a two house radius of us. None of them resemble "my" ferals in any way. While I DO appreciate the fact that I haven't seen a wild rat in over a year, I don't like the idea of finding dead and dying kittens when the group outgrows local resources. I was just lucky to find Mufasa while he was still healthy enough to save. Soooo I guess I'll play with aquaponics some other time, although I might try Eric's HOB idea with a baby spider plant or two, just for the fun of it. Ooooh! YahooGroups finally let me in long enough to upload my pics. I'm still open to suggestions on aquaponics setups. I just may not find the time or money to do it real soon. And I need to figure out how to keep the GH and KH up, too. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/699297662/pic/list My folder is DebR's Goldfish. Yes, that's a Christmas tree still up on Jan 25th. I like looking at it in the evening when there aren't any frantic holiday preparations to distract me. It comes down this week, though. :-( DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I'm not sure if you're checking your GH and KH but the more "life forms" you have drawing off the ecology of the tank, the faster the KH will be used up and the faster the minerals that make up your GH will diminish... as well as all of the other macro nutrients, vitamins and minerals that we can not easily test for. Yes, lots of plants will keep the nitrates from climbing as fast and possibly keep them near zero for the life of the tank but at a certain point, the KH level will get so low, the pH of the tank will crash which could kill off all of the fish. Further, the hormone levels in the tank will continually increase so if all of your fish are not full size, they will get stunted and even full size fish will feel increasing levels of stress due to feeling more overcrowded as the hormone levels rise. All this said, unless someone is doing PWC's on a regular basis, even a heavily planted tank can suffer water quality issues... often the kind that does not even show up on our tests. This is why it's good to test your tank for everything (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH, etc.) on a regular basis until you *learn* your tank and it's ecology... but yes, if all of the other water parameters are staying in good shape between PWC's, the plants will keep the nitrates lower, CO2 lower and increase the O2 levels which are all better for the fish... so that could extend the time period in between PWC's... although I do not recommend it. Fresh clean water is still the best thing we can ever give our fish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46324	From: Debra Melton	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms

Thanks for the tip. I've looked at lots and lots of planeria and "wormy" things the past few days. The leech pictures come the closest to what we saw. I am going to try and catch it and get a picture. Hubby wants to keep it. OMG I don't know why, it's not like he can grill it on the big green egg. Lenny thanks for the tiny urls (some of us need a little extra help) figuring these things out. : ) Deb On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 5:59 PM, <Gwydryn@...> wrote: > > > Try Googling "leech". I have one in my pleco's tank ( at least I think it's > > one) I believe came in with plants. I know it's a leech because it has > attached to me once when I was pulling out hornworth. I haven't seen it in > a > while, so any guess is good about it's wereabouts. > Enid > > > In a message dated 1/27/2010 7:29:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, > dmelton2@... <dmelton2%40gmail.com> writes: > > I am looking for some ideas to research a worm I found in one of my tanks > two days ago. It is a plant only tank with a few MTS and possibly nerite > snails in it (hitchhikers)I am looking for some ideas to research a worm I > found in one of my tanks two days > > The "worm" is about 1 1/2 inches long, a nice light tan color (crayola > crayons might call is flesh colored). It is kind of shaped like a ribbon, > the > "skin" looks smooth, and what I would guess is the head looks like a black > dot (about the size of a pin head). It undulates through the water and > while I watched it, it was all over the tank. I saw it around 6 pm and the > tank > lights were on. My husband saw it too. I say that because I haven't seen > it again. The tank has a hob filter hanging on it and I have not seen > anything like it in the filter media. > > Anybody have any guesses as to what it is? Or, where to look for pictures? > I have googled all kinds of strings of words and have seen enough pictures > to make me light headed. It is not a tape worm, not a peanut worm, or > anything that has hair, antenna, or color striation. The tank is and has > always > been freshwater. > > Any help appreciated. > > Deb > Ocean Springs, MS > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46325	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms

I chose to keep mine as I understand they can also live off the stuff we miss when vacuuming. The times I have seen it it's been hanging on the hornworth and it's quick to attach to my hand if I move too close. Fortunately lil Dracula is easy to remove and off it goes back in the tank. Enid In a message dated 1/28/2010 7:03:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, dmelton2@... writes: Thanks for the tip. I've looked at lots and lots of planeria and "wormy" things the past few days. The leech pictures come the closest to what we saw. I am going to try and catch it and get a picture. Hubby wants to keep it. OMG I don't know why, it's not like he can grill it on the big green egg. Lenny thanks for the tiny urls (some of us need a little extra help) figuring these things out. : ) Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46326	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms

I wonder how hard it is to have leeches in your aquarium. When I ahd otos, I was bringing home rocks from the creek with algae to feed them, and they were covered with little things I thought must be leeches. I got rid of them before I handled them or put them in the aquarium. But if there were just one or two and someone didn't know to be careful, I suppose they could end up with them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gwydryn@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Speaking of worms I chose to keep mine as I understand they can also live off the stuff we miss when vacuuming. The times I have seen it it's been hanging on the hornworth and it's quick to attach to my hand if I move too close. Fortunately lil Dracula is easy to remove and off it goes back in the tank. Enid In a message dated 1/28/2010 7:03:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, dmelton2@... writes: Thanks for the tip. I've looked at lots and lots of planeria and "wormy" things the past few days. The leech pictures come the closest to what we saw. I am going to try and catch it and get a picture. Hubby wants to keep it. OMG I don't know why, it's not like he can grill it on the big green egg. Lenny thanks for the tiny urls (some of us need a little extra help) figuring these things out. : ) Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46327	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Well if I get anything to breed for me I'll send you fish, but I won't have a very great selection like a fish store or wholesaler would ;) LOL. All I can offer is plants, would you like a nice Plant tank in that 55 gallon? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hold it! Hold it! > > Amber, are you trying to say that you have worse luck than I do with Rams? > > That's not fair or possible! My record so far, covering 18 months. Out > of 12 German Rams purchased within this time period, one lonely female > left! > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely you have other fish left to > keep you occupied? Yes I do! In that same 29-gallon tank I have 1 > albino Cory cat and 1 Neon Tetra! Oh yes, in my 20-gallon long? Zero! > Zip! Na-Da! > > I forgot to mention Amber, that 55-gallon we talked about? Why get it, > I have nothing to put in it! Now I know what your thinking! > Bill, why don't you just buy more Rams? > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > The cost of the flight would put the cost of the fish right out of > my reach, even if I were standing on a chair to reach it! > > Take it easy and always remember: "If it can go wrong, it will happen > to "Bill" > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 PM > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the poor little things, I'm > not sure what they don't like about my tanks but they don't like them > long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the past have slowly died > over time. *sniff* > I do love them though. The longest I've had one live in one of my tanks > was about 3 months. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? > > > > :) > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see things going > >> well for > >> you. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little guys) - > >>> > >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you > >>> missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this > >>> > >> for you. > >> > >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use small > >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, they > >>> are huge now:) > >>> > >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How > >>> > >> soon do > >> > >>> you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon > >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males begin > >>> to fight? > >>> > >>> I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... > >>> > >>> Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the rock - > >>> I'm not even checking in there! > >>> > >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list? > >>> mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >>> > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them > >>>> > >> since > >> > >>>> Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you > >>>> asked about > >>>> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any > >>>> as you > >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able > >>>> to get? > >>>> I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any > >>>> further > >>>> thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need > >>>> something > >>>> larger. > >>>> > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you > >>>> might > >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" > >>>> longer (at > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & > >>>> surface), > >>>> allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. > >>>> Second to > >>>> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > >>>> 3/4" H) if > >>>> you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that > >>>> your > >>>> pair could well spawn again within another week. > >>>> > >>>> You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them > >>>> BBS, or > >>>> if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you > >>>> got back > >>>> to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How > >>>> about > >>>> your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in > >>>> on your > >>>> decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> > >> Thank You. > >> > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > >>> > >> ((((º> > >> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >> subject)" <- > >> > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > >>> > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > >> > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > >>> > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > >>> > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > >> and post replies. > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >>> > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You.. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46328	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Speaking of worms

Planaria will attach itself to your skin, they have a little "hook" on one end and you actually have to pull them off of your skin (and it can hurt a little bit, like a tiny leech would). Amber Gwydryn@... wrote: > > Try Googling "leech". I have one in my pleco's tank ( at least I think > it's > one) I believe came in with plants. I know it's a leech because it has > attached to me once when I was pulling out hornworth. I haven't seen > it in a > while, so any guess is good about it's wereabouts. > Enid > > > In a message dated 1/27/2010 7:29:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, > dmelton2@... <mailto:dmelton2%40gmail.com> writes: > > I am looking for some ideas to research a worm I found in one of my tanks > two days ago. It is a plant only tank with a few MTS and possibly nerite > snails in it (hitchhikers)I am looking for some ideas to research a > worm I > found in one of my tanks two days > > The "worm" is about 1 1/2 inches long, a nice light tan color (crayola > crayons might call is flesh colored). It is kind of shaped like a > ribbon, the > "skin" looks smooth, and what I would guess is the head looks like a > black > dot (about the size of a pin head). It undulates through the water and > while I watched it, it was all over the tank. I saw it around 6 pm and > the tank > lights were on. My husband saw it too. I say that because I haven't seen > it again. The tank has a hob filter hanging on it and I have not seen > anything like it in the filter media. > > Anybody have any guesses as to what it is? Or, where to look for > pictures? > I have googled all kinds of strings of words and have seen enough > pictures > to make me light headed. It is not a tape worm, not a peanut worm, or > anything that has hair, antenna, or color striation. The tank is and > has always > been freshwater. > > Any help appreciated. > > Deb > Ocean Springs, MS > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46329	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Check aquabid for sellers with auctions that include the shipping price, there are plenty that include the shipping in the auction total, so you don't have to pay extra on top of the fish. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Thanks Harry, > > I do know of Mark and the quality of his products. Unfortunately for > me, quantity is the problem. The cost would be out of this world. We > are not talking about six fish here. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:32 PM > > I've been dealing with Mark for > > years. Good prices healthy fish. You really should check > > this out. I don't get anything out of this. I know you will > > be pleased like hundreds of other folks you trust him. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > > > Mark is also a past president of the International Betta > > Congress and a member of this group. > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > wrote: > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold it! Hold it! > > > >  > > > > Amber, are you trying to say that you have worse luck than > > I do with Rams? > > > >  > > > > That's not fair or possible! My record so far, covering > > 18 months. Out of 12 German Rams purchased within this > > time period, one lonely female left! > > > >  > > > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely you have other fish > > left to keep you occupied? Yes I do! In that same > > 29-gallon tank I have 1 albino Cory cat and 1 Neon > > Tetra! Oh yes, in my 20-gallon long? Zero! > > Zip! Na-Da! > > > >  > > > > I forgot to mention Amber, that 55-gallon we talked > > about? Why get it, I have nothing to put in it! > > Now I know what your thinking! > > > > Bill, why don't you just buy more Rams? > > > > > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > > > > The cost of the flight would put the cost of the fish right > > out of > > > > my reach, even if I were standing on a chair to reach it! > > > > > > > > Take it easy and always remember: "If it can go > > wrong, it will happen > > > > to "Bill" > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 PM > > > > > > > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the poor little > > things, I'm > > > > not sure what they don't like about my tanks but they don't > > like them > > > > long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the past have > > slowly died > > > > over time. *sniff* > > > > I do love them though. The longest I've had one live in one > > of my tanks > > > > was about 3 months. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > > > > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see > > things going > > > > >> well for > > > > >> you. > > > > >> > > > > >> Amber > > > > >> > > > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > >>    > > > > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest > > in the little guys) - > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do > > like. Ray, I think you > > > > >>> missed my post explaining my "system" so > > far...I reposted this > > > > >>>     > > > > >> for you. > > > > >>    > > > > >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and the First > > Bites now. I use small > > > > >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You will see > > in the pictures, they > > > > >>> are huge now:) > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to > > the cause. How > > > > >>>     > > > > >> soon do > > > > >>    > > > > >>> you think they will need it? Also, can you > > please tell me how soon > > > > >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age > > will the males begin > > > > >>> to fight? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I can't figure out what to do with them yet > > long term... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Believe me, the parents are back at it in the > > bushes with the rock - > > > > >>> I'm not even checking in there! > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or > > in new photos: http:// > > > > >>> groups.yahoo. com/group/ AquaticLife/ > > photos/album/ 2049115566/ pic/list? > > > > >>> mode=tn&order= ordinal&start= > > 21&count= 20&dir=asc > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Lainey > > > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@ > > wmconnect. com wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>>     > > > > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? > > Haven't heard much on them > > > > >>>>      > > > > >> since > > > > >>    > > > > >>>> Sunday, and then you only said they were > > eating BBS. Noticed you > > > > >>>> asked about > > > > >>>> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware > > you were able to get any > > > > >>>> as you > > > > >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of > > powdered food were you able > > > > >>>> to get? > > > > >>>> I presume they must be growing at least a > > bit. Have you given any > > > > >>>> further > > > > >>>> thought about getting a larger tank for > > theM? They'll soon need > > > > >>>> something > > > > >>>> larger. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, > > if you have the room you > > > > >>>> might > > > > >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank > > which is only another 6" > > > > >>>> longer (at > > > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have > > the most area (bottom & > > > > >>>> surface), > > > > >>>> allowing for greater room to grow and > > maximum gasous exchange. > > > > >>>> Second to > > > > >>>> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at > > 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > > > >>>> you didn't want to go with the extra > > width. I would remind you that > > > > >>>> your > > > > >>>> pair could well spawn again within another > > week. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> You haven't indicated to us what you've > > decided when feeding them > > > > >>>> BBS, or > > > > >>>> if they were all near a uniform size to > > accept it. Neither have you > > > > >>>> got back > > > > >>>> to us concerning how many feedings per day > > you've decided on. How > > > > >>>> about > > > > >>>> your methods for cleaning off the bottom > > debris? Please fill us in > > > > >>>> on your > > > > >>>> decisions and how things are going. Ray > > </HTML> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>      > > > > >>> > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below > > it when replying, > > > > >>>     > > > > >> Thank You. > > > > >>    > > > > >>> > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > > > > >>>     > > > > >> ((((º> > > > > >>    > > > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > > TEXT that is NOT > > > > >>>     > > > > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > > of the original > > > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old > > > > >> subject)" <- > > > > >>    > > > > >>> > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > >>>     > > > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > >>    > > > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > >>>     > > > > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option > > by clicking on > > > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > >>    > > > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > to receive the > > > > >>>     > > > > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in > > a single email > > > > >>    > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > for the No E-Mail > > > > >>>     > > > > >> option where you will still be able to read > > messages on the group > > > > >> and post replies. > > > > >>    > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > to receive individual > > > > >>>     > > > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >>    > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You.. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to > > receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time > > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the > > No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to > > receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive > > the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No > > E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46330	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Your a good sport Amber.  Plants?  I'm still indifferent to them with the power heads and all.  I just got word from a friend that he has just gotten sight of some Hornwort, and remembering my fix, grabbed them and they will be fourth coming.   On the Rams?  If you have been following your mail lately, nothing much needs to be said. Lainey is right about the age or life span BUT that is only if your positive of their birth date. If they Rams you buy look very close to the pictures of them you see on the Internet, it's almost a given that they are adults and near the end of their life span.  But also, you can not mix Rams of any sort of appreciable size difference.  If you have full grown ones, maybe 3 and then put in ANY smaller Ram, male or female makes no difference, those fish will be dead in one or two weeks.  This is an old cichlid rule that much applies to Rams. The reasoning behind it is simple, the big fish out compete the smaller for food.  BUT Rams are delicate fish!  Once bullied and thrown off of their fed they will languish and die.  Smaller fish like Neon Tetra's make good tank mates but not much else.  They are difficult and very demanding but Lainey, because of her server water conditions and having to resort to RO water, has met half of thier demands already.   Bill     --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:50 PM Well if I get anything to breed for me I'll send you fish, but I won't have a very great selection like a fish store or wholesaler would ;) LOL. All I can offer is plants, would you like a nice Plant tank in that 55 gallon? LOL Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hold it! Hold it! > > Amber, are you trying to say that you have worse luck than I do with Rams? > > That's not fair or possible! My record so far, covering 18 months. Out > of 12 German Rams purchased within this time period, one lonely female > left! > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely you have other fish left to > keep you occupied? Yes I do! In that same 29-gallon tank I have 1 > albino Cory cat and 1 Neon Tetra! Oh yes, in my 20-gallon long? Zero! > Zip! Na-Da! > > I forgot to mention Amber, that 55-gallon we talked about? Why get it, > I have nothing to put in it! Now I know what your thinking! > Bill, why don't you just buy more Rams? > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > The cost of the flight would put the cost of the fish right out of > my reach, even if I were standing on a chair to reach it! > > Take it easy and always remember: "If it can go wrong, it will happen > to "Bill" > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 PM > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the poor little things, I'm > not sure what they don't like about my tanks but they don't like them > long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the past have slowly died > over time. *sniff* > I do love them though. The longest I've had one live in one of my tanks > was about 3 months. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? > > > > :) > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see things going > >> well for > >> you. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little guys) - > >>> > >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you > >>> missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this > >>> > >> for you. > >> > >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use small > >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, they > >>> are huge now:) > >>> > >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How > >>> > >> soon do > >> > >>> you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon > >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males begin > >>> to fight? > >>> > >>> I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... > >>> > >>> Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the rock - > >>> I'm not even checking in there! > >>> > >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list? > >>> mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >>> > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them > >>>> > >> since > >> > >>>> Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you > >>>> asked about > >>>> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any > >>>> as you > >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able > >>>> to get? > >>>> I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any > >>>> further > >>>> thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need > >>>> something > >>>> larger. > >>>> > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you > >>>> might > >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" > >>>> longer (at > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & > >>>> surface), > >>>> allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. > >>>> Second to > >>>> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > >>>> 3/4" H) if > >>>> you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that > >>>> your > >>>> pair could well spawn again within another week. > >>>> > >>>> You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them > >>>> BBS, or > >>>> if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you > >>>> got back > >>>> to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How > >>>> about > >>>> your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in > >>>> on your > >>>> decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> > >> Thank You. > >> > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > >>> > >> ((((º> > >> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >> subject)" <- > >> > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > >>> > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > >> > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > >>> > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > >>> > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > >> and post replies. > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >>> > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You.. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46331	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

All of the Ram's I got last year had full adult coloring, so it sounds like they were fully grown and that may be why they didn't live very long for me. I've been tempted to try them again, I just don't want to waste money having fish sent to me that just die soon after ;) (I just did that once this month already, LOL) Good to hear you got your Hornwort, I just threw half a 5 gallon bucket away yesterday ;) (hornwort mixed with guppy grass). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Your a good sport Amber. Plants? I'm still indifferent to them with > the power heads and all. I just got word from a friend that he has > just gotten sight of some Hornwort, and remembering my fix, grabbed > them and they will be fourth coming. > > On the Rams? If you have been following your mail lately, nothing much > needs to be said. > Lainey is right about the age or life span BUT that is only if your > positive of their birth date. > If they Rams you buy look very close to the pictures of them you see > on the Internet, it's almost a given that they are adults and near the > end of their life span. But also, you can not mix Rams of any sort of > appreciable size difference. If you have full grown ones, maybe 3 and > then put in ANY smaller Ram, male or female makes no difference, those > fish will be dead in one or two weeks. This is an old cichlid rule > that much applies to Rams. > > The reasoning behind it is simple, the big fish out compete the > smaller for food. BUT Rams are delicate fish! Once bullied and thrown > off of their fed they will languish and die. Smaller fish like Neon > Tetra's make good tank mates but not much else. They are difficult and > very demanding but Lainey, because of her server water conditions and > having to resort to RO water, has met half of thier demands already. > > Bill > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:50 PM > > Well if I get anything to breed for me I'll send you fish, but I won't > have a very great selection like a fish store or wholesaler would ;) LOL. > All I can offer is plants, would you like a nice Plant tank in that 55 > gallon? LOL > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hold it! Hold it! > > > > Amber, are you trying to say that you have worse luck than I do with > Rams? > > > > That's not fair or possible! My record so far, covering 18 months. Out > > of 12 German Rams purchased within this time period, one lonely female > > left! > > > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely you have other fish left to > > keep you occupied? Yes I do! In that same 29-gallon tank I have 1 > > albino Cory cat and 1 Neon Tetra! Oh yes, in my 20-gallon long? Zero! > > Zip! Na-Da! > > > > I forgot to mention Amber, that 55-gallon we talked about? Why get it, > > I have nothing to put in it! Now I know what your thinking! > > Bill, why don't you just buy more Rams? > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > > The cost of the flight would put the cost of the fish right out of > > my reach, even if I were standing on a chair to reach it! > > > > Take it easy and always remember: "If it can go wrong, it will happen > > to "Bill" > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 PM > > > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the poor little things, I'm > > not sure what they don't like about my tanks but they don't like them > > long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the past have slowly died > > over time. *sniff* > > I do love them though. The longest I've had one live in one of my tanks > > was about 3 months. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty baby rams? > > > > > > :) > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, glad to see things going > > >> well for > > >> you. > > >> > > >> Amber > > >> > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for your interest in the little guys) - > > >>> > > >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which they do like. Ray, I think you > > >>> missed my post explaining my "system" so far...I reposted this > > >>> > > >> for you. > > >> > > >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and the First Bites now. I use small > > >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You will see in the pictures, they > > >>> are huge now:) > > >>> > > >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to donate to the cause. How > > >>> > > >> soon do > > >> > > >>> you think they will need it? Also, can you please tell me how soon > > >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? At what age will the males begin > > >>> to fight? > > >>> > > >>> I can't figure out what to do with them yet long term... > > >>> > > >>> Believe me, the parents are back at it in the bushes with the rock - > > >>> I'm not even checking in there! > > >>> > > >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day 15", or in new photos: http:// > > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list? > > >>> mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc > > >>> > > >>> Lainey > > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > >>> > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry doing? Haven't heard much on them > > >>>> > > >> since > > >> > > >>>> Sunday, and then you only said they were eating BBS. Noticed you > > >>>> asked about > > >>>> feeding them powdered food. I wasn't aware you were able to get any > > >>>> as you > > >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What kind of powdered food were you able > > >>>> to get? > > >>>> I presume they must be growing at least a bit. Have you given any > > >>>> further > > >>>> thought about getting a larger tank for theM? They'll soon need > > >>>> something > > >>>> larger. > > >>>> > > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon Long tank, if you have the room you > > >>>> might > > >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon Breeder tank which is only another 6" > > >>>> longer (at > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this would have the most area (bottom & > > >>>> surface), > > >>>> allowing for greater room to grow and maximum gasous exchange. > > >>>> Second to > > >>>> that would be a regular 30 Gallon Long (at 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > >>>> you didn't want to go with the extra width. I would remind you that > > >>>> your > > >>>> pair could well spawn again within another week. > > >>>> > > >>>> You haven't indicated to us what you've decided when feeding them > > >>>> BBS, or > > >>>> if they were all near a uniform size to accept it. Neither have you > > >>>> got back > > >>>> to us concerning how many feedings per day you've decided on. How > > >>>> about > > >>>> your methods for cleaning off the bottom debris? Please fill us in > > >>>> on your > > >>>> decisions and how things are going. Ray </HTML> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ------------------------------------ > > >>> > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > >>> > > >> Thank You. > > >> > > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > >>> > > >> ((((º> > > >> > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > >>> > > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > >> subject)" <- > > >> > > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > >>> > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > >> > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > >>> > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > >>> > > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > >> > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > > >>> > > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > >> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > >>> > > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > >> and post replies. > > >> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > >>> > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You.. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You.. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46332	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Hi Amber, Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this.  First, Aquabid does not have enough.  Remember from my message just sent?  Re-read what I sent Harry.  It's not just the quality here but most definitely the quantity. You are buying these fish, however great they are, sight un-seen.  You can't go back again next month and order more unless the seller will swear, that they are from the same spawn.  Size and timing are everything here.  Unless of course if you just say no to single fish all together and only deal with pairs, which can be dangerous and very expensive. I suspect this is where much of the Internet Lore on Rams comes from and why people have such a hard time with them.  But then if they were really easy, what would we learn and what fun would we have learning it? --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:52 PM > Check aquabid for sellers with > auctions that include the shipping price, > there are plenty that include the shipping in the auction > total, so you > don't have to pay extra on top of the fish. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Thanks Harry, > > > > I do know of Mark and the quality of his products. > Unfortunately for > > me, quantity is the problem. The cost would be out of > this world. We > > are not talking about six fish here. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > brine/Cost of fish. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:32 PM > > > I've been dealing with Mark for > > > years. Good prices healthy fish. You really > should check > > > this out. I don't get anything out of this. I > know you will > > > be pleased like hundreds of other folks you trust > him. > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > > > > > Mark is also a past president of the > International Betta > > > Congress and a member of this group. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > brine > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold it! Hold it! > > > > > >  > > > > > > Amber, are you trying to say that you have worse > luck than > > > I do with Rams? > > > > > >  > > > > > > That's not fair or possible! My record so far, > covering > > > 18 months. Out of 12 German Rams purchased > within this > > > time period, one lonely female left! > > > > > >  > > > > > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely you have > other fish > > > left to keep you occupied? Yes I do! In that > same > > > 29-gallon tank I have 1 albino Cory cat and 1 > Neon > > > Tetra! Oh yes, in my 20-gallon long? Zero! > > > Zip! Na-Da! > > > > > >  > > > > > > I forgot to mention Amber, that 55-gallon we > talked > > > about? Why get it, I have nothing to put in > it! > > > Now I know what your thinking! > > > > > > Bill, why don't you just buy more Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > > > > > > The cost of the flight would put the cost of the > fish right > > > out of > > > > > > my reach, even if I were standing on a chair to > reach it! > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it easy and always remember: "If it can go > > > wrong, it will happen > > > > > > to "Bill" > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@gmail. > > > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > brine > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the > poor little > > > things, I'm > > > > > > not sure what they don't like about my tanks but > they don't > > > like them > > > > > > long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the > past have > > > slowly died > > > > > > over time. *sniff* > > > > > > I do love them though. The longest I've had one > live in one > > > of my tanks > > > > > > was about 3 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty > baby rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, > glad to see > > > things going > > > > > > >> well for > > > > > > >> you. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Amber > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for > your interest > > > in the little guys) - > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which > they do > > > like. Ray, I think you > > > > > > >>> missed my post explaining my > "system" so > > > far...I reposted this > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> for you. > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and > the First > > > Bites now. I use small > > > > > > >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You > will see > > > in the pictures, they > > > > > > >>> are huge now:) > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to > donate to > > > the cause. How > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> soon do > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> you think they will need it? Also, > can you > > > please tell me how soon > > > > > > >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? > At what age > > > will the males begin > > > > > > >>> to fight? > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> I can't figure out what to do with > them yet > > > long term... > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Believe me, the parents are back at > it in the > > > bushes with the rock - > > > > > > >>> I'm not even checking in there! > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day > 15", or > > > in new photos: http:// > > > > > > >>> groups.yahoo. com/group/ > AquaticLife/ > > > photos/album/ 2049115566/ pic/list? > > > > > > >>> mode=tn&order= > ordinal&start= > > > 21&count= 20&dir=asc > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Lainey > > > > > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, > sevenspringss@ > > > wmconnect. com wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry > doing? > > > Haven't heard much on them > > > > > > >>>>      > > > > > > >> since > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>>> Sunday, and then you only said > they were > > > eating BBS. Noticed you > > > > > > >>>> asked about > > > > > > >>>> feeding them powdered food. I > wasn't aware > > > you were able to get any > > > > > > >>>> as you > > > > > > >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What > kind of > > > powdered food were you able > > > > > > >>>> to get? > > > > > > >>>> I presume they must be growing > at least a > > > bit. Have you given any > > > > > > >>>> further > > > > > > >>>> thought about getting a larger > tank for > > > theM? They'll soon need > > > > > > >>>> something > > > > > > >>>> larger. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon > Long tank, > > > if you have the room you > > > > > > >>>> might > > > > > > >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon > Breeder tank > > > which is only another 6" > > > > > > >>>> longer (at > > > > > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this > would have > > > the most area (bottom & > > > > > > >>>> surface), > > > > > > >>>> allowing for greater room to > grow and > > > maximum gasous exchange. > > > > > > >>>> Second to > > > > > > >>>> that would be a regular 30 > Gallon Long (at > > > 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > > > > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > > > > > >>>> you didn't want to go with the > extra > > > width. I would remind you that > > > > > > >>>> your > > > > > > >>>> pair could well spawn again > within another > > > week. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> You haven't indicated to us what > you've > > > decided when feeding them > > > > > > >>>> BBS, or > > > > > > >>>> if they were all near a uniform > size to > > > accept it. Neither have you > > > > > > >>>> got back > > > > > > >>>> to us concerning how many > feedings per day > > > you've decided on. How > > > > > > >>>> about > > > > > > >>>> your methods for cleaning off > the bottom > > > debris? Please fill us in > > > > > > >>>> on your > > > > > > >>>> decisions and how things are > going. Ray > > > </HTML> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>>      > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message > have been > > > removed] > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> ------------ --------- --------- > ------ > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING below > > > it when replying, > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> Thank You. > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..>< > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> ((((º> > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all > > > TEXT that is NOT > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC > > > of the original > > > > > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old > > > > > > >> subject)" <- > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your > HELP in this > > > matter. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery option > > > by clicking on > > > > > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- > digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at > a time in > > > a single email > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> option where you will still be able to > read > > > messages on the group > > > > > > >> and post replies. > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > replying, Thank You.. > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that > > > is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou > ps.com to > > > receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a time > > > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou > ps.com for the > > > No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou > ps.com to > > > receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to > receive > > > the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for > the No > > > E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to > receive > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46333	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/28/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal on some of her babies ;) hehe. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, Aquabid does not > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? Re-read what I sent > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most definitely the > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great they are, sight > un-seen. > > You can't go back again next month and order more unless the seller > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size and timing are > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no to single fish > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be dangerous and very > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the Internet Lore on Rams > comes from and why people have such a hard time with them. But then if > they were really easy, what would we learn and what fun would we have > learning it? > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:52 PM > > Check aquabid for sellers with > > auctions that include the shipping price, > > there are plenty that include the shipping in the auction > > total, so you > > don't have to pay extra on top of the fish. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Harry, > > > > > > I do know of Mark and the quality of his products. > > Unfortunately for > > > me, quantity is the problem. The cost would be out of > > this world. We > > > are not talking about six fish here. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:32 PM > > > > I've been dealing with Mark for > > > > years. Good prices healthy fish. You really > > should check > > > > this out. I don't get anything out of this. I > > know you will > > > > be pleased like hundreds of other folks you trust > > him. > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > > > > > > > > Mark is also a past president of the > > International Betta > > > > Congress and a member of this group. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > > brine > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold it! Hold it! > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Amber, are you trying to say that you have worse > > luck than > > > > I do with Rams? > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > That's not fair or possible! My record so far, > > covering > > > > 18 months. Out of 12 German Rams purchased > > within this > > > > time period, one lonely female left! > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely you have > > other fish > > > > left to keep you occupied? Yes I do! In that > > same > > > > 29-gallon tank I have 1 albino Cory cat and 1 > > Neon > > > > Tetra! Oh yes, in my 20-gallon long? Zero! > > > > Zip! Na-Da! > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > I forgot to mention Amber, that 55-gallon we > > talked > > > > about? Why get it, I have nothing to put in > > it! > > > > Now I know what your thinking! > > > > > > > > Bill, why don't you just buy more Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > > > > > > > > The cost of the flight would put the cost of the > > fish right > > > > out of > > > > > > > > my reach, even if I were standing on a chair to > > reach it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it easy and always remember: "If it can go > > > > wrong, it will happen > > > > > > > > to "Bill" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > > com> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > > brine > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't kill the > > poor little > > > > things, I'm > > > > > > > > not sure what they don't like about my tanks but > > they don't > > > > like them > > > > > > > > long term. All the blue Ram's I've bought in the > > past have > > > > slowly died > > > > > > > > over time. *sniff* > > > > > > > > I do love them though. The longest I've had one > > live in one > > > > of my tanks > > > > > > > > was about 3 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, would you like me to send you fifty > > baby rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber Berglund > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) Congrats, > > glad to see > > > > things going > > > > > > > > >> well for > > > > > > > > >> you. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Amber > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank you for > > your interest > > > > in the little guys) - > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> I have First Bites by Hikari, which > > they do > > > > like. Ray, I think you > > > > > > > > >>> missed my post explaining my > > "system" so > > > > far...I reposted this > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> for you. > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> They seem to be eating the BBS and > > the First > > > > Bites now. I use small > > > > > > > > >>> amounts of each at each feeding. You > > will see > > > > in the pictures, they > > > > > > > > >>> are huge now:) > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> I have a 20g that John is willing to > > donate to > > > > the cause. How > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> soon do > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> you think they will need it? Also, > > can you > > > > please tell me how soon > > > > > > > > >>> before they would outgrow the 20g? > > At what age > > > > will the males begin > > > > > > > > >>> to fight? > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> I can't figure out what to do with > > them yet > > > > long term... > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> Believe me, the parents are back at > > it in the > > > > bushes with the rock - > > > > > > > > >>> I'm not even checking in there! > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> Here are pictures under "ram fry day > > 15", or > > > > in new photos: http:// > > > > > > > > >>> groups.yahoo. com/group/ > > AquaticLife/ > > > > photos/album/ 2049115566/ pic/list? > > > > > > > > >>> mode=tn&order= > > ordinal&start= > > > > 21&count= 20&dir=asc > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> Lainey > > > > > > > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 PM, > > sevenspringss@ > > > > wmconnect. com wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the Ram fry > > doing? > > > > Haven't heard much on them > > > > > > > > >>>>      > > > > > > > > >> since > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>>> Sunday, and then you only said > > they were > > > > eating BBS. Noticed you > > > > > > > > >>>> asked about > > > > > > > > >>>> feeding them powdered food. I > > wasn't aware > > > > you were able to get any > > > > > > > > >>>> as you > > > > > > > > >>>> just mentioned Liquifry. What > > kind of > > > > powdered food were you able > > > > > > > > >>>> to get? > > > > > > > > >>>> I presume they must be growing > > at least a > > > > bit. Have you given any > > > > > > > > >>>> further > > > > > > > > >>>> thought about getting a larger > > tank for > > > > theM? They'll soon need > > > > > > > > >>>> something > > > > > > > > >>>> larger. > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 Gallon > > Long tank, > > > > if you have the room you > > > > > > > > >>>> might > > > > > > > > >>>> want to consider a 30 Gallon > > Breeder tank > > > > which is only another 6" > > > > > > > > >>>> longer (at > > > > > > > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), since this > > would have > > > > the most area (bottom & > > > > > > > > >>>> surface), > > > > > > > > >>>> allowing for greater room to > > grow and > > > > maximum gasous exchange. > > > > > > > > >>>> Second to > > > > > > > > >>>> that would be a regular 30 > > Gallon Long (at > > > > 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > > > > > > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > > > > > > > >>>> you didn't want to go with the > > extra > > > > width. I would remind you that > > > > > > > > >>>> your > > > > > > > > >>>> pair could well spawn again > > within another > > > > week. > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> You haven't indicated to us what > > you've > > > > decided when feeding them > > > > > > > > >>>> BBS, or > > > > > > > > >>>> if they were all near a uniform > > size to > > > > accept it. Neither have you > > > > > > > > >>>> got back > > > > > > > > >>>> to us concerning how many > > feedings per day > > > > you've decided on. How > > > > > > > > >>>> about > > > > > > > > >>>> your methods for cleaning off > > the bottom > > > > debris? Please fill us in > > > > > > > > >>>> on your > > > > > > > > >>>> decisions and how things are > > going. Ray > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>      > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message > > have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> ------------ --------- --------- > > ------ > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING below > > > > it when replying, > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> Thank You. > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..>< > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> ((((º> > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all > > > > TEXT that is NOT > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING > > the TOPIC > > > > of the original > > > > > > > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old > > > > > > > > >> subject)" <- > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your > > HELP in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery option > > > > by clicking on > > > > > > > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- > > digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > to receive the > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at > > a time in > > > > a single email > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > > nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > for the No E-Mail > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> option where you will still be able to > > read > > > > messages on the group > > > > > > > > >> and post replies. > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > > normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > to receive individual > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > > TEXT that > > > > is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > > the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead > > > > of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou > > ps.com to > > > > receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > > at a time > > > > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou > > ps.com for the > > > > No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read > > > > messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou > > ps.com to > > > > receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to > > receive > > > > the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for > > the No > > > > E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to > > receive > > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46334	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ray - here is my last update

Hi Lainey, Yes, I saw your post from the 21st, but that was before this past Sunday (1/24). I didn't recall seeing anything since the 24th except for your feeding the adults bloodworms 4 times a week. Yes, I noticed you submitted your photos for approval at 2:47 PM yesterday, which I saw and approved at 3:54 PM, although I believe not before another moderator may have already approved them sooner than I by the time I saw them. Your fry are apparently growing. Instead of the air line hose for cleaning the bottom, a length of rigid plastic tubing connected to this air line is so much more controllable in directing where to place it. You'll probably still syphon up fry that don't know enough to get out of the way, but not as many. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46335	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine

Lainey, Glad to hear the fry have taken to "First Bites," and that you thought enough ahead to supply them with this. They should do well on this food. Great too, that John has donated a 20 Long to the "cause." While you could wait until such time that it becomes obvious they need more room, it's never too soon to supply fry with adequate (or even more than adequate) growing space. As soon as you can set the 20 Long up and find it convenient to move the fry would not be too soon to move them at the stage they're now at. You will soon notice -- the larger the tank they're being grown out in, the faster they will grow. When in such a large group, although the males may squabble as they get bigger -- and they will -- there will be too many of them for any particular male to take the brunt of any aggression and as a result it will be all spread out among the group. Besides, there will be no room for any particular male to set up a territory to defend as his own, to cause him to behave with much aggression. They will learn to tolerate each other as a necessity of living in this group environment, so you needn't be very concerned about it. Yes, long term will necessitate making some future plans for this bunch, and you may need to expand to a larger tank at that time, but you'll also need to consider parting with enough of them at that time so as not to have them crowded. I noticed Bill (Warrenprint) on here seems to be very interested in Blue Rams; you may want to consider offering him some when the time comes to thin them out. Also, you should approach your LFS to ask if they'd like to buy some, even though they probably wouldn't take too many at any one time. A monetary return from the LFS would be best, but even if they gave you credit towards fish supplies, you'd still be ahead of the game. Since they probably couldn't take as many as you'd have extras of, it might be a good idea to offer some for free as a way of giving the rest adequate room to grow, rather than stunting them all, and such generous gestures are usually met with the same. From what you're describing of the pair, it sounds like they're getting ready to spawn again. Better get that 10 gallon ready for the next batch (LOL) -- looks like you have a Ram factory there <g>. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46336	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Hi Amber,   Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction.  I'm not sure if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, when I said I was very much interested in them.  Not knowing me as long as you or the rest of the group do, she may have just passed it off as a joke or missed the post entirely.  We both know that is incorrect, as I do often joke and kid around here, and do have a sense of humor, but I never joke about Rams!   Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of prep work; obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve any success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not air.  She may just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish club, she hasn't really said what she plans to do with them. If she keeps giving those parents those bloodworms, she's going to have another spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this morning.   I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber.  This mail should have arrived last night as we were talking back and fourth?  For some Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this mornings mail? What can you do?  Sorry for the delay in answering you.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM > Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal > on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > Aquabid does not > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > Re-read what I sent > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > definitely the > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > they are, sight > > un-seen. > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > unless the seller > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > and timing are > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > to single fish > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > dangerous and very > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > Internet Lore on Rams > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > them. But then if > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > fun would we have > > learning it? > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > brine/Cost of fish. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:52 PM > > > Check aquabid for sellers with > > > auctions that include the shipping price, > > > there are plenty that include the shipping in the > auction > > > total, so you > > > don't have to pay extra on top of the fish. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Harry, > > > > > > > > I do know of Mark and the quality of his > products. > > > Unfortunately for > > > > me, quantity is the problem. The cost would > be out of > > > this world. We > > > > are not talking about six fish here. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > eating baby > > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:32 > PM > > > > > I've been dealing with Mark for > > > > > years. Good prices healthy fish. You > really > > > should check > > > > > this out. I don't get anything out of > this. I > > > know you will > > > > > be pleased like hundreds of other folks > you trust > > > him. > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > > > > > > > > > > Mark is also a past president of the > > > International Betta > > > > > Congress and a member of this group. > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > eating baby > > > brine > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:03 > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold it! Hold it! > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > Amber, are you trying to say that you > have worse > > > luck than > > > > > I do with Rams? > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > That's not fair or possible! My > record so far, > > > covering > > > > > 18 months. Out of 12 German Rams > purchased > > > within this > > > > > time period, one lonely female left! > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely > you have > > > other fish > > > > > left to keep you occupied? Yes I > do! In that > > > same > > > > > 29-gallon tank I have 1 albino Cory cat > and 1 > > > Neon > > > > > Tetra! Oh yes, in my 20-gallon > long? Zero! > > > > > Zip! Na-Da! > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > I forgot to mention Amber, that > 55-gallon we > > > talked > > > > > about? Why get it, I have nothing to > put in > > > it! > > > > > Now I know what your thinking! > > > > > > > > > > Bill, why don't you just buy more > Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > > > > > > > > > > The cost of the flight would put the > cost of the > > > fish right > > > > > out of > > > > > > > > > > my reach, even if I were standing on a > chair to > > > reach it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it easy and always remember: "If > it can go > > > > > wrong, it will happen > > > > > > > > > > to "Bill" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > <arberglund@gmail. > > > com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > eating baby > > > brine > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't > kill the > > > poor little > > > > > things, I'm > > > > > > > > > > not sure what they don't like about my > tanks but > > > they don't > > > > > like them > > > > > > > > > > long term. All the blue Ram's I've > bought in the > > > past have > > > > > slowly died > > > > > > > > > > over time. *sniff* > > > > > > > > > > I do love them though. The longest I've > had one > > > live in one > > > > > of my tanks > > > > > > > > > > was about 3 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, would you like me to send you > fifty > > > baby rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber > Berglund > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) > Congrats, > > > glad to see > > > > > things going > > > > > > > > > > >> well for > > > > > > > > > > >> you. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Amber > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank > you for > > > your interest > > > > > in the little guys) - > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have First Bites by > Hikari, which > > > they do > > > > > like. Ray, I think you > > > > > > > > > > >>> missed my post explaining > my > > > "system" so > > > > > far...I reposted this > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> for you. > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> They seem to be eating the > BBS and > > > the First > > > > > Bites now. I use small > > > > > > > > > > >>> amounts of each at each > feeding. You > > > will see > > > > > in the pictures, they > > > > > > > > > > >>> are huge now:) > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have a 20g that John is > willing to > > > donate to > > > > > the cause. How > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> soon do > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> you think they will need > it? Also, > > > can you > > > > > please tell me how soon > > > > > > > > > > >>> before they would outgrow > the 20g? > > > At what age > > > > > will the males begin > > > > > > > > > > >>> to fight? > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> I can't figure out what to > do with > > > them yet > > > > > long term... > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> Believe me, the parents > are back at > > > it in the > > > > > bushes with the rock - > > > > > > > > > > >>> I'm not even checking in > there! > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> Here are pictures under > "ram fry day > > > 15", or > > > > > in new photos: http:// > > > > > > > > > > >>> groups.yahoo. com/group/ > > > AquaticLife/ > > > > > photos/album/ 2049115566/ pic/list? > > > > > > > > > > >>> mode=tn&order= > > > ordinal&start= > > > > > 21&count= 20&dir=asc > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> Lainey > > > > > > > > > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 > PM, > > > sevenspringss@ > > > > > wmconnect. com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the > Ram fry > > > doing? > > > > > Haven't heard much on them > > > > > > > > > > >>>>      > > > > > > > > > > >> since > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Sunday, and then you > only said > > > they were > > > > > eating BBS. Noticed you > > > > > > > > > > >>>> asked about > > > > > > > > > > >>>> feeding them powdered > food. I > > > wasn't aware > > > > > you were able to get any > > > > > > > > > > >>>> as you > > > > > > > > > > >>>> just mentioned > Liquifry. What > > > kind of > > > > > powdered food were you able > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to get? > > > > > > > > > > >>>> I presume they must be > growing > > > at least a > > > > > bit. Have you given any > > > > > > > > > > >>>> further > > > > > > > > > > >>>> thought about getting > a larger > > > tank for > > > > > theM? They'll soon need > > > > > > > > > > >>>> something > > > > > > > > > > >>>> larger. > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 > Gallon > > > Long tank, > > > > > if you have the room you > > > > > > > > > > >>>> might > > > > > > > > > > >>>> want to consider a 30 > Gallon > > > Breeder tank > > > > > which is only another 6" > > > > > > > > > > >>>> longer (at > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), > since this > > > would have > > > > > the most area (bottom & > > > > > > > > > > >>>> surface), > > > > > > > > > > >>>> allowing for greater > room to > > > grow and > > > > > maximum gasous exchange. > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Second to > > > > > > > > > > >>>> that would be a > regular 30 > > > Gallon Long (at > > > > > 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > > > > > > > > > >>>> you didn't want to go > with the > > > extra > > > > > width. I would remind you that > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your > > > > > > > > > > >>>> pair could well spawn > again > > > within another > > > > > week. > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> You haven't indicated > to us what > > > you've > > > > > decided when feeding them > > > > > > > > > > >>>> BBS, or > > > > > > > > > > >>>> if they were all near > a uniform > > > size to > > > > > accept it. Neither have you > > > > > > > > > > >>>> got back > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to us concerning how > many > > > feedings per day > > > > > you've decided on. How > > > > > > > > > > >>>> about > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your methods for > cleaning off > > > the bottom > > > > > debris? Please fill us in > > > > > > > > > > >>>> on your > > > > > > > > > > >>>> decisions and how > things are > > > going. Ray > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>      > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this > message > > > have been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> ------------ --------- > --------- > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> Please, DELETE this line > and > > > EVERYTHING below > > > > > it when replying, > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..>< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> ((((º> > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to > a post, > > > DELETE all > > > > > TEXT that is NOT > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> important to the reply & > if CHANGING > > > the TOPIC > > > > > of the original > > > > > > > > > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > > > i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old > > > > > > > > > > >> subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> We Thank You in Advance > for Your > > > HELP in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> If you do not want all of > the groups > > > emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> unsubscribing, you can change > your > > > delivery option > > > > > by clicking on > > > > > > > > > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- > > > digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > to receive the > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> digest, which includes up to > 25 posts at > > > a time in > > > > > a single email > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > > > nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > for the No E-Mail > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> option where you will still be > able to > > > read > > > > > messages on the group > > > > > > > > > > >> and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > > > normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > to receive individual > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it when > > > > > replying, Thank You.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all > > > TEXT that > > > > > is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING > > > the TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > HELP in > > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups emails, > > > instead > > > > > of unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- > digest@yahoogrou > > > ps.com to > > > > > receive the digest, which includes up > to 25 posts > > > at a time > > > > > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > nomail@yahoogrou > > > ps.com for the > > > > > No E-Mail option where you will still > be able to > > > read > > > > > messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > normal@yahoogrou > > > ps.com to > > > > > receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou > ps.com to > > > receive > > > > > the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou > ps.com for > > > the No > > > > > E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages > > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou > ps.com to > > > receive > > > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46337	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Actually, if sellers/shippers use the newer "breather bags", instead of the older plastic bags, they won't need oxygen and it's better for the fish as the bags can then be filled up with ALL water instead of only a little water. This helps to dilute any nitrogenous compounds during shipping and the bags are made with a material that allows gaseous exchange through the *plastic* so the O2 levels will stay higher in the bag full of just water. Kordon makes the bags and I'm sure others may as well. Here's a review of them: http://www.petfish.net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php KensFish.com sells them: http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplie.html (1/4 down page) You can also get heat packs from KensFish. This place also sells them but KensFish has better prices, even on 50 compared to only 10 below: http://www.theaquaticdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8in&chan nelid=FROOG Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. Hi Amber,   Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction.  I'm not sure if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, when I said I was very much interested in them.  Not knowing me as long as you or the rest of the group do, she may have just passed it off as a joke or missed the post entirely.  We both know that is incorrect, as I do often joke and kid around here, and do have a sense of humor, but I never joke about Rams!   Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of prep work; obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve any success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not air.  She may just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish club, she hasn't really said what she plans to do with them. If she keeps giving those parents those bloodworms, she's going to have another spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this morning.   I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber.  This mail should have arrived last night as we were talking back and fourth?  For some Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this mornings mail? What can you do?  Sorry for the delay in answering you.   Bill --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM Maybe Lainey will cut you a > good deal on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > Aquabid does not > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > Re-read what I sent > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > definitely the > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > they are, sight > > un-seen. > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > unless the seller > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > and timing are > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > to single fish > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > dangerous and very > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > Internet Lore on Rams > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > them. But then if > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > fun would we have > > learning it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46338	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

While we are on this topic, are the bag buddies safe for most fish as well? It says they promote slime coat but does not say how, which makes me wonder. http://www.petfish.net/reviews/bag_buddies.php Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Actually, if sellers/shippers use the newer "breather bags", instead > of the > older plastic bags, they won't need oxygen and it's better for the fish as > the bags can then be filled up with ALL water instead of only a little > water. This helps to dilute any nitrogenous compounds during shipping and > the bags are made with a material that allows gaseous exchange through the > *plastic* so the O2 levels will stay higher in the bag full of just water. > Kordon makes the bags and I'm sure others may as well. > > Here's a review of them: > http://www.petfish.net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php > <http://www.petfish.net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php> > > KensFish.com sells them: > > http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplie.html > <http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplie.html> (1/4 down page) > > You can also get heat packs from KensFish. > > This place also sells them but KensFish has better prices, even on 50 > compared to only 10 below: > > http://www.theaquaticdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8in&chan > <http://www.theaquaticdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8in&chan> > nelid=FROOG > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > Hi Amber, > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction. I'm not sure > if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, when I said > I was > very much interested in them. Not knowing me as long as you or the rest of > the group do, she may have just passed it off as a joke or missed the post > entirely. We both know that is incorrect, as I do often joke and kid > around > here, and do have a sense of humor, but I never joke about Rams! > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of prep > work; > obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve any success at all, > oxygen for the bag itself not air. She may just be looking into her LPS or > perhaps a local fish club, she hasn't really said what she plans to do > with > them. If she keeps giving those parents those bloodworms, she's going to > have another spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this morning. > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This mail should have arrived last > night as we were talking back and fourth? For some Yahoo mail reason, it > showed up in this mornings mail? > What can you do? Sorry for the delay in answering you. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM Maybe Lainey will cut you a > > good deal on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > > Aquabid does not > > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > > Re-read what I sent > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > > definitely the > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > > they are, sight > > > un-seen. > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > > unless the seller > > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > > and timing are > > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > > to single fish > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > > dangerous and very > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > > them. But then if > > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > > fun would we have > > > learning it? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46339	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

It's okay Bill, just admit you fell asleep at the computer before you hit "send" LOL. The fish I have had sent to me this last year were not in breather bags, in fact I'm not sure I've had any fish sent to me in breather bags (I'm not sure about Pam, she mentioned them but I think she was out of them at the time, it's been too long for me to remember the details). So I'm not sure if people were somehow putting oxygen into the bags instead of just the air in the room, I never asked, LOL. Perhaps with all the links Lenny sent this morning Lainey might actually be interested in shipping her fish out some day, perhaps not this batch but keep your hopes up Bill, it looks like she will have babies again in the near future ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction. I'm not sure > if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, when I said > I was very much interested in them. Not knowing me as long as you or > the rest of the group do, she may have just passed it off as a joke or > missed the post entirely. We both know that is incorrect, as I do > often joke and kid around here, and do have a sense of humor, but I > never joke about Rams! > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of prep > work; obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve any > success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not air. She may just be > looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish club, she hasn't really > said what she plans to do with them. If she keeps giving those parents > those bloodworms, she's going to have another spawn shortly, as Ray > mentioned this morning. > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This mail should have arrived > last night as we were talking back and fourth? For some Yahoo mail > reason, it showed up in this mornings mail? > What can you do? Sorry for the delay in answering you. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM > > Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal > > on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > > Aquabid does not > > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > > Re-read what I sent > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > > definitely the > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > > they are, sight > > > un-seen. > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > > unless the seller > > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > > and timing are > > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > > to single fish > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > > dangerous and very > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > > them. But then if > > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > > fun would we have > > > learning it? > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:52 PM > > > > Check aquabid for sellers with > > > > auctions that include the shipping price, > > > > there are plenty that include the shipping in the > > auction > > > > total, so you > > > > don't have to pay extra on top of the fish. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Harry, > > > > > > > > > > I do know of Mark and the quality of his > > products. > > > > Unfortunately for > > > > > me, quantity is the problem. The cost would > > be out of > > > > this world. We > > > > > are not talking about six fish here. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > > eating baby > > > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:32 > > PM > > > > > > I've been dealing with Mark for > > > > > > years. Good prices healthy fish. You > > really > > > > should check > > > > > > this out. I don't get anything out of > > this. I > > > > know you will > > > > > > be pleased like hundreds of other folks > > you trust > > > > him. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark is also a past president of the > > > > International Betta > > > > > > Congress and a member of this group. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > > eating baby > > > > brine > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:03 > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold it! Hold it! > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, are you trying to say that you > > have worse > > > > luck than > > > > > > I do with Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not fair or possible! My > > record so far, > > > > covering > > > > > > 18 months. Out of 12 German Rams > > purchased > > > > within this > > > > > > time period, one lonely female left! > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely > > you have > > > > other fish > > > > > > left to keep you occupied? Yes I > > do! In that > > > > same > > > > > > 29-gallon tank I have 1 albino Cory cat > > and 1 > > > > Neon > > > > > > Tetra! Oh yes, in my 20-gallon > > long? Zero! > > > > > > Zip! Na-Da! > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot to mention Amber, that > > 55-gallon we > > > > talked > > > > > > about? Why get it, I have nothing to > > put in > > > > it! > > > > > > Now I know what your thinking! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, why don't you just buy more > > Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > > > > > > > > > > > > The cost of the flight would put the > > cost of the > > > > fish right > > > > > > out of > > > > > > > > > > > > my reach, even if I were standing on a > > chair to > > > > reach it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it easy and always remember: "If > > it can go > > > > > > wrong, it will happen > > > > > > > > > > > > to "Bill" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund > > > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > > > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > > eating baby > > > > brine > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't > > kill the > > > > poor little > > > > > > things, I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what they don't like about my > > tanks but > > > > they don't > > > > > > like them > > > > > > > > > > > > long term. All the blue Ram's I've > > bought in the > > > > past have > > > > > > slowly died > > > > > > > > > > > > over time. *sniff* > > > > > > > > > > > > I do love them though. The longest I've > > had one > > > > live in one > > > > > > of my tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > was about 3 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, would you like me to send you > > fifty > > > > baby rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber > > Berglund > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) > > Congrats, > > > > glad to see > > > > > > things going > > > > > > > > > > > > >> well for > > > > > > > > > > > > >> you. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank > > you for > > > > your interest > > > > > > in the little guys) - > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have First Bites by > > Hikari, which > > > > they do > > > > > > like. Ray, I think you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> missed my post explaining > > my > > > > "system" so > > > > > > far...I reposted this > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> They seem to be eating the > > BBS and > > > > the First > > > > > > Bites now. I use small > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> amounts of each at each > > feeding. You > > > > will see > > > > > > in the pictures, they > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> are huge now:) > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have a 20g that John is > > willing to > > > > donate to > > > > > > the cause. How > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> soon do > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> you think they will need > > it? Also, > > > > can you > > > > > > please tell me how soon > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> before they would outgrow > > the 20g? > > > > At what age > > > > > > will the males begin > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> to fight? > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I can't figure out what to > > do with > > > > them yet > > > > > > long term... > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Believe me, the parents > > are back at > > > > it in the > > > > > > bushes with the rock - > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I'm not even checking in > > there! > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Here are pictures under > > "ram fry day > > > > 15", or > > > > > > in new photos: http:// > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> groups.yahoo. com/group/ > > > > AquaticLife/ > > > > > > photos/album/ 2049115566/ pic/list? > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> mode=tn&order= > > > > ordinal&start= > > > > > > 21&count= 20&dir=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 > > PM, > > > > sevenspringss@ > > > > > > wmconnect. com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the > > Ram fry > > > > doing? > > > > > > Haven't heard much on them > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>      > > > > > > > > > > > > >> since > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Sunday, and then you > > only said > > > > they were > > > > > > eating BBS. Noticed you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> asked about > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> feeding them powdered > > food. I > > > > wasn't aware > > > > > > you were able to get any > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> as you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> just mentioned > > Liquifry. What > > > > kind of > > > > > > powdered food were you able > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to get? > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> I presume they must be > > growing > > > > at least a > > > > > > bit. Have you given any > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> further > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> thought about getting > > a larger > > > > tank for > > > > > > theM? They'll soon need > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> something > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> larger. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 > > Gallon > > > > Long tank, > > > > > > if you have the room you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> might > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> want to consider a 30 > > Gallon > > > > Breeder tank > > > > > > which is only another 6" > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> longer (at > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), > > since this > > > > would have > > > > > > the most area (bottom & > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> surface), > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> allowing for greater > > room to > > > > grow and > > > > > > maximum gasous exchange. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Second to > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> that would be a > > regular 30 > > > > Gallon Long (at > > > > > > 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> you didn't want to go > > with the > > > > extra > > > > > > width. I would remind you that > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> pair could well spawn > > again > > > > within another > > > > > > week. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> You haven't indicated > > to us what > > > > you've > > > > > > decided when feeding them > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> BBS, or > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> if they were all near > > a uniform > > > > size to > > > > > > accept it. Neither have you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> got back > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to us concerning how > > many > > > > feedings per day > > > > > > you've decided on. How > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> about > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your methods for > > cleaning off > > > > the bottom > > > > > > debris? Please fill us in > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> on your > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> decisions and how > > things are > > > > going. Ray > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>      > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this > > message > > > > have been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> ------------ --------- > > --------- > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Please, DELETE this line > > and > > > > EVERYTHING below > > > > > > it when replying, > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..>< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ((((º> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to > > a post, > > > > DELETE all > > > > > > TEXT that is NOT > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> important to the reply & > > if CHANGING > > > > the TOPIC > > > > > > of the original > > > > > > > > > > > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > > > i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old > > > > > > > > > > > > >> subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> We Thank You in Advance > > for Your > > > > HELP in this > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> If you do not want all of > > the groups > > > > emails, > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > > > delivery option > > > > > > by clicking on > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- > > > > digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > to receive the > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> digest, which includes up to > > 25 posts at > > > > a time in > > > > > > a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > > > > nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > for the No E-Mail > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read > > > > > > messages on the group > > > > > > > > > > > > >> and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > > > > normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > to receive individual > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > > have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all > > > > TEXT that > > > > > > is NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING > > > > the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > > HELP in > > > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups emails, > > > > instead > > > > > > of unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- > > digest@yahoogrou > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > receive the digest, which includes up > > to 25 posts > > > > at a time > > > > > > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > nomail@yahoogrou > > > > ps.com for the > > > > > > No E-Mail option where you will still > > be able to > > > > read > > > > > > messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > normal@yahoogrou > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou > > ps.com to > > > > receive > > > > > > the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a > > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou > > ps.com for > > > > the No > > > > > > E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages > > > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou > > ps.com to > > > > receive > > > > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46340	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Hey Bill - Ya, I haven't been sure if you really want to try again with Rams or not...also, it was my understanding that the Rams don't do well (die?) in your setup? I thought maybe it's something about your water, not sure. I am still figuring out what to do about my babies, but will certainly be thinking about RAOKs as my primary distribution method, should I get that far. Also, I don't think I want to ship, though I'm sure someone could help me through that process, I just cringe when I think about it... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:08 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Amber, > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction. I'm > not sure > if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, when I > said I was very much interested in them. Not knowing me as long as > you or the rest of the group do, she may have just passed it off as > a joke or missed the post entirely. We both know that is > incorrect, as I do often joke and kid around here, and do have a > sense of humor, but I never joke about Rams! > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of > prep work; obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve > any success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not air. She may > just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish club, she > hasn't really said what she plans to do with them. If she keeps > giving those parents those bloodworms, she's going to have another > spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this morning. > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This mail should have > arrived last night as we were talking back and fourth? For some > Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this mornings mail? > What can you do? Sorry for the delay in answering you. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM > > Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal > > on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > > Aquabid does not > > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > > Re-read what I sent > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > > definitely the > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > > they are, sight > > > un-seen. > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > > unless the seller > > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > > and timing are > > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > > to single fish > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > > dangerous and very > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > > them. But then if > > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > > fun would we have > > > learning it? > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:52 PM > > > > Check aquabid for sellers with > > > > auctions that include the shipping price, > > > > there are plenty that include the shipping in the > > auction > > > > total, so you > > > > don't have to pay extra on top of the fish. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Harry, > > > > > > > > > > I do know of Mark and the quality of his > > products. > > > > Unfortunately for > > > > > me, quantity is the problem. The cost would > > be out of > > > > this world. We > > > > > are not talking about six fish here. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@... > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > > eating baby > > > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:32 > > PM > > > > > > I've been dealing with Mark for > > > > > > years. Good prices healthy fish. You > > really > > > > should check > > > > > > this out. I don't get anything out of > > this. I > > > > know you will > > > > > > be pleased like hundreds of other folks > > you trust > > > > him. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark is also a past president of the > > > > International Betta > > > > > > Congress and a member of this group. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > > eating baby > > > > brine > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 6:03 > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold it!� Hold it! > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, are you trying to say that you > > have worse > > > > luck than > > > > > > I do with Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not fair or possible!� My > > record so far, > > > > covering > > > > > > 18 months.� Out of 12 German Rams > > purchased > > > > within this > > > > > > time period, one lonely female left!� > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill but surely > > you have > > > > other fish > > > > > > left to keep you occupied?� Yes I > > do!� In that > > > > same > > > > > > 29-gallon tank I have 1 albino Cory cat > > and 1 > > > > Neon > > > > > > Tetra!� Oh yes, in my 20-gallon > > long?� Zero!� > > > > > > Zip!� Na-Da! > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot to mention Amber, that > > 55-gallon we > > > > talked > > > > > > about?� Why get it, I have nothing to > > put in > > > > it! > > > > > > Now I know what your thinking! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, why don't you just buy more > > Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, where? > > > > > > > > > > > > The cost of the flight would put the > > cost of the > > > > fish right > > > > > > out of > > > > > > > > > > > > my reach, even if I were standing on a > > chair to > > > > reach it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it easy and always remember: "If > > it can go > > > > > > wrong, it will happen > > > > > > > > > > > > to "Bill" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund > > > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > > > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > > eating baby > > > > brine > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 5:41 > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'd be interested if I didn't > > kill the > > > > poor little > > > > > > things, I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what they don't like about my > > tanks but > > > > they don't > > > > > > like them > > > > > > > > > > > > long term. All the blue Ram's I've > > bought in the > > > > past have > > > > > > slowly died > > > > > > > > > > > > over time. *sniff* > > > > > > > > > > > > I do love them though. The longest I've > > had one > > > > live in one > > > > > > of my tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > was about 3 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, would you like me to send you > > fifty > > > > baby rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Amber > > Berglund > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >� � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing fast :) > > Congrats, > > > > glad to see > > > > > > things going� > > > > > > > > > > > > >> well for > > > > > > > > > > > > >> you. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hi Ray (and Amber, thank > > you for > > > > your interest > > > > > > in the little guys) - > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have First Bites by > > Hikari, which > > > > they do > > > > > > like. Ray, I think you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> missed my post explaining > > my > > > > "system" so > > > > > > far...I reposted this� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> They seem to be eating the > > BBS and > > > > the First > > > > > > Bites now. I use small > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> amounts of each at each > > feeding. You > > > > will see > > > > > > in the pictures, they > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> are huge now:) > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have a 20g that John is > > willing to > > > > donate to > > > > > > the cause. How� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> soon do > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> you think they will need > > it? Also, > > > > can you > > > > > > please tell me how soon > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> before they would outgrow > > the 20g? > > > > At what age > > > > > > will the males begin > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> to fight? > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I can't figure out what to > > do with > > > > them yet > > > > > > long term... > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Believe me, the parents > > are back at > > > > it in the > > > > > > bushes with the rock - > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I'm not even checking in > > there! > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Here are pictures under > > "ram fry day > > > > 15", or > > > > > > in new photos: http:// > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> groups.yahoo. com/group/ > > > > AquaticLife/ > > > > > > photos/album/ 2049115566/ pic/list? > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> mode=tn&order= > > > > ordinal&start= > > > > > > 21&count= 20&dir=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:25 > > PM, > > > > sevenspringss@ > > > > > > wmconnect. com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Hi Lainey, How are the > > Ram fry > > > > doing? > > > > > > Haven't heard much on them� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>� � � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> since > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Sunday, and then you > > only said > > > > they were > > > > > > eating BBS. Noticed you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> asked about > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> feeding them powdered > > food. I > > > > wasn't aware > > > > > > you were able to get any > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> as you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> just mentioned > > Liquifry. What > > > > kind of > > > > > > powdered food were you able > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to get? > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> I presume they must be > > growing > > > > at least a > > > > > > bit. Have you given any > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> further > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> thought about getting > > a larger > > > > tank for > > > > > > theM? They'll soon need > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> something > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> larger. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> While I mentioned a 20 > > Gallon > > > > Long tank, > > > > > > if you have the room you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> might > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> want to consider a 30 > > Gallon > > > > Breeder tank > > > > > > which is only another 6" > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> longer (at > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W x 12"H), > > since this > > > > would have > > > > > > the most area (bottom & > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> surface), > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> allowing for greater > > room to > > > > grow and > > > > > > maximum gasous exchange. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Second to > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> that would be a > > regular 30 > > > > Gallon Long (at > > > > > > 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> you didn't want to go > > with the > > > > extra > > > > > > width. I would remind you that > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> pair could well spawn > > again > > > > within another > > > > > > week. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> You haven't indicated > > to us what > > > > you've > > > > > > decided when feeding them > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> BBS, or > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> if they were all near > > a uniform > > > > size to > > > > > > accept it. Neither have you > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> got back > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to us concerning how > > many > > > > feedings per day > > > > > > you've decided on. How > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> about > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your methods for > > cleaning off > > > > the bottom > > > > > > debris? Please fill us in > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> on your > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> decisions and how > > things are > > > > going. Ray > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>� � � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this > > message > > > > have been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> ------------ --------- > > --------- > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Please, DELETE this line > > and > > > > EVERYTHING below > > > > > > it when replying,� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > > > > > > ��.������`��.��. , > > > > .������`��..>< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ((((��> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to > > a post, > > > > DELETE all > > > > > > TEXT that is NOT� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> important to the reply & > > if CHANGING > > > > the TOPIC > > > > > > of the original� > > > > > > > > > > > > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> > > > > i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old� > > > > > > > > > > > > >> subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > > > > > > , > > .������`��..<��((((><�� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ����`��.����. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> We Thank You in Advance > > for Your > > > > HELP in this > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> If you do not want all of > > the groups > > > > emails, > > > > > > instead of� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > > > delivery option > > > > > > by clicking on� > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- > > > > digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > to receive the� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> digest, which includes up to > > 25 posts at > > > > a time in > > > > > > a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > > > > nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > for the No E-Mail� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read > > > > > > messages on the group� > > > > > > > > > > > > >> and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email aquaticlife- > > > > normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > to receive individual� > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > > have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > > > > > > ��.������`��.��. , > > > > > > > > .������`��..><((((��> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all > > > > TEXT that > > > > > > is NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING > > > > the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. > > > > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > > HELP in > > > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups emails, > > > > instead > > > > > > of unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page.� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- > > digest@yahoogrou > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > receive the digest, which includes up > > to 25 posts > > > > at a time > > > > > > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > nomail@yahoogrou > > > > ps.com for the > > > > > > No E-Mail option where you will still > > be able to > > > > read > > > > > > messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > normal@yahoogrou > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > receive individual e-mails..Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >� � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > > > > > > ��.������`��.��. , > > > > > > > > .������`��..><((((��> > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. > > > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page.� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou > > ps.com to > > > > receive > > > > > > the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a > > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou > > ps.com for > > > > the No > > > > > > E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages > > > > > > on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou > > ps.com to > > > > receive > > > > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > > > , > > .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46341	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Inbreeding

Hi Everyone - I am not sure how bad it is to allow fish like Rams, in particular, to inbreed? If my babies go out to other homes and breed to one another, isn't that going to be a problem for their babies? I'm not a big fan of inbreeding in general, so am wondering where my responsibility lies with these Ram fry. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46342	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Hi Lainey, With me it's not a matter of "trying again" it's a "since" type of thing. A bit of history on Bill?  Although I have been out of the hobby for some time, I would probably be considered by many as old school, going back to the 70's.  At that time I was raising and breeding Discus and did so for almost 10 years, so it's not as though I'm really new to all of this.  I'm just new to some of the products and technology that has come on the seen since that time. My tank setup was not as much an issue but complications with my well water were, not near as bad as yours but a large pH difference from 7.0.  In addition I have spent the last 18 months on the gathering and studying of the Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi and meeting people who share their experience of keeping these fish.  Like so many things it has been a difficult road to travel, in that today with the Internet and so many articles and so-called facts and "experts", it took quite a bit of time in separating these so called "facts" from the reality of things.   Most of my study and concussions thereof are all now founded on facts and experience rather than the here-say information and speculation of others. On the matter of shipping or helping out others, you certainly have my ear on that point and I hope you will keep me in mind.  But if you would rather not I certainly understand.  Even so, "being a new Mom" is never easy and sometimes just the parting with new fry is a problem.  I know in my early beginnings, it was like that for me.  But be advised, just as Ray told you, you will have more and soon, if not already!(maybe check their rock).  Rams are quite prolific once they have settled down to parenting.  And I do believe the Rams have selected you to be their "spokes-person" and have definitely settled down to parenting so sooner or later you're going to have to make some choices. Bill --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:11 AM > Hey Bill - > > Ya, I haven't been sure if you really want to try again > with Rams or  > not...also, it was my understanding that the Rams don't do > well  > (die?) in your setup? I thought maybe it's something about > your  > water, not sure. > > I am still figuring out what to do about my babies, but > will  > certainly be thinking about RAOKs as my primary > distribution method,  > should I get that far. > > Also, I don't think I want to ship, though I'm sure someone > could  > help me through that process, I just cringe when I think > about it... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:08 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Amber, > > > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my > direction.  I'm  > > not sure > > if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or > not, when I  > > said I was very much interested in them.  Not > knowing me as long as  > > you or the rest of the group do, she may have just > passed it off as  > > a joke or missed the post entirely.  We both know > that is  > > incorrect, as I do often joke and kid around here, and > do have a  > > sense of humor, but I never joke about Rams! > > > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish > requires a lot of  > > prep work; obtaining a suitable container and in order > to achieve  > > any success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not > air.  She may  > > just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish > club, she  > > hasn't really said what she plans to do with them. If > she keeps  > > giving those parents those bloodworms, she's going to > have another  > > spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this morning. > > > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber.  This > mail should have  > > arrived last night as we were talking back and > fourth?  For some  > > Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this mornings > mail? > > What can you do?  Sorry for the delay in > answering you. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > brine/Cost of fish. > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM > > > Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal > > > on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw > this. First, > > > Aquabid does not > > > > have enough. Remember from my message just > sent? > > > Re-read what I sent > > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but > most > > > definitely the > > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however > great > > > they are, sight > > > > un-seen. > > > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order > more > > > unless the seller > > > > will swear, that they are from the same > spawn. Size > > > and timing are > > > > everything here. Unless of course if you > just say no > > > to single fish > > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which > can be > > > dangerous and very > > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of > the > > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > > comes from and why people have such a hard > time with > > > them. But then if > > > > they were really easy, what would we learn > and what > > > fun would we have > > > > learning it? > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > eating baby > > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:52 > PM > > > > > Check aquabid for sellers with > > > > > auctions that include the shipping > price, > > > > > there are plenty that include the > shipping in the > > > auction > > > > > total, so you > > > > > don't have to pay extra on top of the > fish. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Harry, > > > > > > > > > > > > I do know of Mark and the quality > of his > > > products. > > > > > Unfortunately for > > > > > > me, quantity is the problem. The > cost would > > > be out of > > > > > this world. We > > > > > > are not talking about six fish > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry > <harryfisherman@... > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Ram fry > > > eating baby > > > > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, > 2010, 6:32 > > > PM > > > > > > > I've been dealing with Mark > for > > > > > > > years. Good prices healthy > fish. You > > > really > > > > > should check > > > > > > > this out. I don't get > anything out of > > > this. I > > > > > know you will > > > > > > > be pleased like hundreds of > other folks > > > you trust > > > > > him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark is also a past president > of the > > > > > International Betta > > > > > > > Congress and a member of this > group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill > 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Ram fry > > > eating baby > > > > > brine > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, > 2010, 6:03 > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold it! Hold it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, are you trying to say > that you > > > have worse > > > > > luck than > > > > > > > I do with Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not fair or > possible! My > > > record so far, > > > > > covering > > > > > > > 18 months. Out of 12 German > Rams > > > purchased > > > > > within this > > > > > > > time period, one lonely > female left! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill > but surely > > > you have > > > > > other fish > > > > > > > left to keep you occupied? > Yes I > > > do! In that > > > > > same > > > > > > > 29-gallon tank I have 1 > albino Cory cat > > > and 1 > > > > > Neon > > > > > > > Tetra! Oh yes, in my > 20-gallon > > > long? Zero! > > > > > > > Zip! Na-Da! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot to mention Amber, > that > > > 55-gallon we > > > > > talked > > > > > > > about? Why get it, I have > nothing to > > > put in > > > > > it! > > > > > > > Now I know what your > thinking! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, why don't you just buy > more > > > Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, > where? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The cost of the flight would > put the > > > cost of the > > > > > fish right > > > > > > > out of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my reach, even if I were > standing on a > > > chair to > > > > > reach it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it easy and always > remember: "If > > > it can go > > > > > > > wrong, it will happen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to "Bill" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber > Berglund > > > > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > > > > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > > com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > Ram fry > > > eating baby > > > > > brine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, > 2010, 5:41 > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'd be interested if > I didn't > > > kill the > > > > > poor little > > > > > > > things, I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what they don't like > about my > > > tanks but > > > > > they don't > > > > > > > like them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > long term. All the blue Ram's > I've > > > bought in the > > > > > past have > > > > > > > slowly died > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over time. *sniff* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do love them though. The > longest I've > > > had one > > > > > live in one > > > > > > > of my tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was about 3 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, would you like me > to send you > > > fifty > > > > > baby rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 > PM, Amber > > > Berglund > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing > fast :) > > > Congrats, > > > > > glad to see > > > > > > > things going > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> well for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Lainey Alexander > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hi Ray (and > Amber, thank > > > you for > > > > > your interest > > > > > > > in the little guys) - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have First > Bites by > > > Hikari, which > > > > > they do > > > > > > > like. Ray, I think you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> missed my post > explaining > > > my > > > > > "system" so > > > > > > > far...I reposted this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> They seem to be > eating the > > > BBS and > > > > > the First > > > > > > > Bites now. I use small > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> amounts of each > at each > > > feeding. You > > > > > will see > > > > > > > in the pictures, they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> are huge now:) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have a 20g > that John is > > > willing to > > > > > donate to > > > > > > > the cause. How > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> soon do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> you think they > will need > > > it? Also, > > > > > can you > > > > > > > please tell me how soon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> before they > would outgrow > > > the 20g? > > > > > At what age > > > > > > > will the males begin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> to fight? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I can't figure > out what to > > > do with > > > > > them yet > > > > > > > long term... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Believe me, the > parents > > > are back at > > > > > it in the > > > > > > > bushes with the rock - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I'm not even > checking in > > > there! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Here are > pictures under > > > "ram fry day > > > > > 15", or > > > > > > > in new photos: http:// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> groups.yahoo. > com/group/ > > > > > AquaticLife/ > > > > > > > photos/album/ 2049115566/ > pic/list? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > mode=tn&order= > > > > > ordinal&start= > > > > > > > 21&count= 20&dir=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, > at 2:25 > > > PM, > > > > > sevenspringss@ > > > > > > > wmconnect. com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Hi Lainey, > How are the > > > Ram fry > > > > > doing? > > > > > > > Haven't heard much on them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>    >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> since > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Sunday, and > then you > > > only said > > > > > they were > > > > > > > eating BBS. Noticed you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> asked about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> feeding them > powdered > > > food. I > > > > > wasn't aware > > > > > > > you were able to get any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> as you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> just > mentioned > > > Liquifry. What > > > > > kind of > > > > > > > powdered food were you able > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to get? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> I presume > they must be > > > growing > > > > > at least a > > > > > > > bit. Have you given any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> further > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> thought > about getting > > > a larger > > > > > tank for > > > > > > > theM? They'll soon need > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> something > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> larger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> While I > mentioned a 20 > > > Gallon > > > > > Long tank, > > > > > > > if you have the room you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> might > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> want to > consider a 30 > > > Gallon > > > > > Breeder tank > > > > > > > which is only another 6" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> longer (at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W > x 12"H), > > > since this > > > > > would have > > > > > > > the most area (bottom & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> surface), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> allowing for > greater > > > room to > > > > > grow and > > > > > > > maximum gasous exchange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Second to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> that would > be a > > > regular 30 > > > > > Gallon Long (at > > > > > > > 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> you didn't > want to go > > > with the > > > > > extra > > > > > > > width. I would remind you > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> pair could > well spawn > > > again > > > > > within another > > > > > > > week. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> You haven't > indicated > > > to us what > > > > > you've > > > > > > > decided when feeding them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> BBS, or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> if they were > all near > > > a uniform > > > > > size to > > > > > > > accept it. Neither have you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> got back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to us > concerning how > > > many > > > > > feedings per day > > > > > > > you've decided on. How > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your methods > for > > > cleaning off > > > > > the bottom > > > > > > > debris? Please fill us in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> on your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> decisions > and how > > > things are > > > > > going. Ray > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>    >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text > portions of this > > > message > > > > > have been > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> ------------ > --------- > > > --------- > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Please, DELETE > this line > > > and > > > > > EVERYTHING below > > > > > > > it when replying, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > > > > > .·´¯`·..>< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ((((º> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> PLEASE, when you > REPLY to > > > a post, > > > > > DELETE all > > > > > > > TEXT that is NOT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> important to the > reply & > > > if CHANGING > > > > > the TOPIC > > > > > > > of the original > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> > > > > > i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> We Thank You in > Advance > > > for Your > > > > > HELP in this > > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> If you do not > want all of > > > the groups > > > > > emails, > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> unsubscribing, you > can change > > > your > > > > > delivery option > > > > > > > by clicking on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "Edit My Membership" > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or e-mail > aquaticlife- > > > > > digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > to receive the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> digest, which > includes up to > > > 25 posts at > > > > > a time in > > > > > > > a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email > aquaticlife- > > > > > nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> option where you > will still be > > > able to > > > > > read > > > > > > > messages on the group > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email > aquaticlife- > > > > > normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > to receive individual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>    > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>     > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of > this message > > > have been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- > --------- > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line > and > > > EVERYTHING > > > > > below it when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY > to a post, > > > DELETE all > > > > > TEXT that > > > > > > > is NOT important to the reply > & if > > > CHANGING > > > > > the TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance > for Your > > > HELP in > > > > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all > of the > > > groups emails, > > > > > instead > > > > > > > of unsubscribing, you can > change your > > > delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- > > > digest@yahoogrou > > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > > receive the digest, which > includes up > > > to 25 posts > > > > > at a time > > > > > > > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > > nomail@yahoogrou > > > > > ps.com for the > > > > > > > No E-Mail option where you > will still > > > be able to > > > > > read > > > > > > > messages on the group and > post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > > normal@yahoogrou > > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > > receive individual > e-mails..Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- > --------- > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it > > > > > when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > & if > > > CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your HELP > > > in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups > > > emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > your > > > delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- > digest@yahoogrou > > > ps.com to > > > > > receive > > > > > > > the digest, which includes up > to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a > > > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > nomail@yahoogrou > > > ps.com for > > > > > the No > > > > > > > E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages > > > > > > > on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > normal@yahoogrou > > > ps.com to > > > > > receive > > > > > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > message have > > > been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it > > > > > when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > & if > > > CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your HELP > > > in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups > > > emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > your > > > delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes > > > up to 25 > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > where you will > > > still be > > > > > able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group > and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46343	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

So, am I understanding you that you have cleared up your water issues and are ready for Rams? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:35 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > With me it's not a matter of "trying again" it's a "since" type of > thing. > A bit of history on Bill? Although I have been out of the hobby > for some time, I would probably be considered by many as old > school, going back to the 70's. At that time I was raising and > breeding Discus and did so for almost 10 years, so it's not as > though I'm really new to all of this. I'm just new to some of the > products and technology that has come on the seen since that time. > > My tank setup was not as much an issue but complications with my > well water were, not near as bad as yours but a large pH difference > from 7.0. In addition I have spent the last 18 months on the > gathering and studying of the Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi and meeting > people who share their experience of keeping these fish. Like so > many things it has been a difficult road to travel, in that today > with the Internet and so many articles and so-called facts and > "experts", it took quite a bit of time in separating these so > called "facts" from the reality of things. Most of my study and > concussions thereof are all now founded on facts and experience > rather than the here-say information and speculation of others. > > On the matter of shipping or helping out others, you certainly have > my ear on that point and I hope you will keep me in mind. But if > you would rather not I certainly understand. Even so, "being a new > Mom" is never easy and sometimes just the parting with new fry is a > problem. I know in my early beginnings, it was like that for me. > But be advised, just as Ray told you, you will have more and soon, > if not already!(maybe check their rock). Rams are quite prolific > once they have settled down to parenting. And I do believe the > Rams have selected you to be their "spokes-person" and have > definitely settled down to parenting so sooner or later you're > going to have to make some choices. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:11 AM > > Hey Bill - > > > > Ya, I haven't been sure if you really want to try again > > with Rams or > > not...also, it was my understanding that the Rams don't do > > well > > (die?) in your setup? I thought maybe it's something about > > your > > water, not sure. > > > > I am still figuring out what to do about my babies, but > > will > > certainly be thinking about RAOKs as my primary > > distribution method, > > should I get that far. > > > > Also, I don't think I want to ship, though I'm sure someone > > could > > help me through that process, I just cringe when I think > > about it... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:08 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my > > direction. I'm > > > not sure > > > if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or > > not, when I > > > said I was very much interested in them. Not > > knowing me as long as > > > you or the rest of the group do, she may have just > > passed it off as > > > a joke or missed the post entirely. We both know > > that is > > > incorrect, as I do often joke and kid around here, and > > do have a > > > sense of humor, but I never joke about Rams! > > > > > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish > > requires a lot of > > > prep work; obtaining a suitable container and in order > > to achieve > > > any success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not > > air. She may > > > just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish > > club, she > > > hasn't really said what she plans to do with them. If > > she keeps > > > giving those parents those bloodworms, she's going to > > have another > > > spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this morning. > > > > > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This > > mail should have > > > arrived last night as we were talking back and > > fourth? For some > > > Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this mornings > > mail? > > > What can you do? Sorry for the delay in > > answering you. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM > > > > Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal > > > > on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw > > this. First, > > > > Aquabid does not > > > > > have enough. Remember from my message just > > sent? > > > > Re-read what I sent > > > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but > > most > > > > definitely the > > > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however > > great > > > > they are, sight > > > > > un-seen. > > > > > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order > > more > > > > unless the seller > > > > > will swear, that they are from the same > > spawn. Size > > > > and timing are > > > > > everything here. Unless of course if you > > just say no > > > > to single fish > > > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which > > can be > > > > dangerous and very > > > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of > > the > > > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > > > comes from and why people have such a hard > > time with > > > > them. But then if > > > > > they were really easy, what would we learn > > and what > > > > fun would we have > > > > > learning it? > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > > eating baby > > > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:52 > > PM > > > > > > Check aquabid for sellers with > > > > > > auctions that include the shipping > > price, > > > > > > there are plenty that include the > > shipping in the > > > > auction > > > > > > total, so you > > > > > > don't have to pay extra on top of the > > fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Harry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do know of Mark and the quality > > of his > > > > products. > > > > > > Unfortunately for > > > > > > > me, quantity is the problem. The > > cost would > > > > be out of > > > > > > this world. We > > > > > > > are not talking about six fish > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry > > <harryfisherman@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Ram fry > > > > eating baby > > > > > > brine/Cost of fish. > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, > > 2010, 6:32 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > I've been dealing with Mark > > for > > > > > > > > years. Good prices healthy > > fish. You > > > > really > > > > > > should check > > > > > > > > this out. I don't get > > anything out of > > > > this. I > > > > > > know you will > > > > > > > > be pleased like hundreds of > > other folks > > > > you trust > > > > > > him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark is also a past president > > of the > > > > > > International Betta > > > > > > > > Congress and a member of this > > group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill > > 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Ram fry > > > > eating baby > > > > > > brine > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, > > 2010, 6:03 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold it!� Hold it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, are you trying to say > > that you > > > > have worse > > > > > > luck than > > > > > > > > I do with Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not fair or > > possible!� My > > > > record so far, > > > > > > covering > > > > > > > > 18 months.� Out of 12 German > > Rams > > > > purchased > > > > > > within this > > > > > > > > time period, one lonely > > female left!� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill > > but surely > > > > you have > > > > > > other fish > > > > > > > > left to keep you occupied?� > > Yes I > > > > do!� In that > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > 29-gallon tank I have 1 > > albino Cory cat > > > > and 1 > > > > > > Neon > > > > > > > > Tetra!� Oh yes, in my > > 20-gallon > > > > long?� Zero!� > > > > > > > > Zip!� Na-Da! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot to mention Amber, > > that > > > > 55-gallon we > > > > > > talked > > > > > > > > about?� Why get it, I have > > nothing to > > > > put in > > > > > > it! > > > > > > > > Now I know what your > > thinking! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, why don't you just buy > > more > > > > Rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, no problem Amber, > > where? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The cost of the flight would > > put the > > > > cost of the > > > > > > fish right > > > > > > > > out of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my reach, even if I were > > standing on a > > > > chair to > > > > > > reach it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take it easy and always > > remember: "If > > > > it can go > > > > > > > > wrong, it will happen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to "Bill" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber > > Berglund > > > > > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > > > > > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund > > > > <arberglund@gmail. > > > > > > com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > Ram fry > > > > eating baby > > > > > > brine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > > com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, > > 2010, 5:41 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I'd be interested if > > I didn't > > > > kill the > > > > > > poor little > > > > > > > > things, I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what they don't like > > about my > > > > tanks but > > > > > > they don't > > > > > > > > like them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > long term. All the blue Ram's > > I've > > > > bought in the > > > > > > past have > > > > > > > > slowly died > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over time. *sniff* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do love them though. The > > longest I've > > > > had one > > > > > > live in one > > > > > > > > of my tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was about 3 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, would you like me > > to send you > > > > fifty > > > > > > baby rams? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 > > PM, Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >� � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Wow, they're growing > > fast :) > > > > Congrats, > > > > > > glad to see > > > > > > > > things going� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> well for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Lainey Alexander > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Hi Ray (and > > Amber, thank > > > > you for > > > > > > your interest > > > > > > > > in the little guys) - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have First > > Bites by > > > > Hikari, which > > > > > > they do > > > > > > > > like. Ray, I think you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> missed my post > > explaining > > > > my > > > > > > "system" so > > > > > > > > far...I reposted this� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> They seem to be > > eating the > > > > BBS and > > > > > > the First > > > > > > > > Bites now. I use small > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> amounts of each > > at each > > > > feeding. You > > > > > > will see > > > > > > > > in the pictures, they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> are huge now:) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I have a 20g > > that John is > > > > willing to > > > > > > donate to > > > > > > > > the cause. How� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> soon do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> you think they > > will need > > > > it? Also, > > > > > > can you > > > > > > > > please tell me how soon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> before they > > would outgrow > > > > the 20g? > > > > > > At what age > > > > > > > > will the males begin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> to fight? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I can't figure > > out what to > > > > do with > > > > > > them yet > > > > > > > > long term... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Believe me, the > > parents > > > > are back at > > > > > > it in the > > > > > > > > bushes with the rock - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I'm not even > > checking in > > > > there! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Here are > > pictures under > > > > "ram fry day > > > > > > 15", or > > > > > > > > in new photos: http:// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> groups.yahoo. > > com/group/ > > > > > > AquaticLife/ > > > > > > > > photos/album/ 2049115566/ > > pic/list? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > mode=tn&order= > > > > > > ordinal&start= > > > > > > > > 21&count= 20&dir=asc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Lainey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Jan 28, 2010, > > at 2:25 > > > > PM, > > > > > > sevenspringss@ > > > > > > > > wmconnect. com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Hi Lainey, > > How are the > > > > Ram fry > > > > > > doing? > > > > > > > > Haven't heard much on them� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>� � � � > > � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> since > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Sunday, and > > then you > > > > only said > > > > > > they were > > > > > > > > eating BBS. Noticed you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> asked about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> feeding them > > powdered > > > > food. I > > > > > > wasn't aware > > > > > > > > you were able to get any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> as you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> just > > mentioned > > > > Liquifry. What > > > > > > kind of > > > > > > > > powdered food were you able > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to get? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> I presume > > they must be > > > > growing > > > > > > at least a > > > > > > > > bit. Have you given any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> further > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> thought > > about getting > > > > a larger > > > > > > tank for > > > > > > > > theM? They'll soon need > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> something > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> larger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> While I > > mentioned a 20 > > > > Gallon > > > > > > Long tank, > > > > > > > > if you have the room you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> might > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> want to > > consider a 30 > > > > Gallon > > > > > > Breeder tank > > > > > > > > which is only another 6" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> longer (at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 36"L x 18"W > > x 12"H), > > > > since this > > > > > > would have > > > > > > > > the most area (bottom & > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> surface), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> allowing for > > greater > > > > room to > > > > > > grow and > > > > > > > > maximum gasous exchange. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Second to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> that would > > be a > > > > regular 30 > > > > > > Gallon Long (at > > > > > > > > 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> 3/4" H) if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> you didn't > > want to go > > > > with the > > > > > > extra > > > > > > > > width. I would remind you > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> pair could > > well spawn > > > > again > > > > > > within another > > > > > > > > week. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> You haven't > > indicated > > > > to us what > > > > > > you've > > > > > > > > decided when feeding them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> BBS, or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> if they were > > all near > > > > a uniform > > > > > > size to > > > > > > > > accept it. Neither have you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> got back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> to us > > concerning how > > > > many > > > > > > feedings per day > > > > > > > > you've decided on. How > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> your methods > > for > > > > cleaning off > > > > > > the bottom > > > > > > > > debris? Please fill us in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> on your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> decisions > > and how > > > > things are > > > > > > going. Ray > > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>� � � � > > � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text > > portions of this > > > > message > > > > > > have been > > > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> ------------ > > --------- > > > > --------- > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Please, DELETE > > this line > > > > and > > > > > > EVERYTHING below > > > > > > > > it when replying,� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > > > > > > > > ��.������`��.��. > > , > > > > > > .������`��..>< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ((((��> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> PLEASE, when you > > REPLY to > > > > a post, > > > > > > DELETE all > > > > > > > > TEXT that is NOT� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> important to the > > reply & > > > > if CHANGING > > > > > > the TOPIC > > > > > > > > of the original� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> > > > > > > i.e. "new > > > > > > > > subject (was re: old� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > > > > > > > > , > > > > .������`��..<��((((><�� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > ����`��.����. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> We Thank You in > > Advance > > > > for Your > > > > > > HELP in this > > > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> If you do not > > want all of > > > > the groups > > > > > > emails, > > > > > > > > instead of� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> unsubscribing, you > > can change > > > > your > > > > > > delivery option > > > > > > > > by clicking on� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "Edit My Membership" > > on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or e-mail > > aquaticlife- > > > > > > digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > > to receive the� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> digest, which > > includes up to > > > > 25 posts at > > > > > > a time in > > > > > > > > a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email > > aquaticlife- > > > > > > nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> option where you > > will still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > messages on the group� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Or email > > aquaticlife- > > > > > > normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > > > > > > to receive individual� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>� � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>� � � � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of > > this message > > > > have been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- > > --------- > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line > > and > > > > EVERYTHING > > > > > > below it when > > > > > > > > replying, Thank You.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > > > > > > > > ��.������`��.��. > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > .������`��..><((((��> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY > > to a post, > > > > DELETE all > > > > > > TEXT that > > > > > > > > is NOT important to the reply > > & if > > > > CHANGING > > > > > > the TOPIC of > > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance > > for Your > > > > HELP in > > > > > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all > > of the > > > > groups emails, > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > of unsubscribing, you can > > change your > > > > delivery > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > home > > > > > > page.� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- > > > > digest@yahoogrou > > > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > > > receive the digest, which > > includes up > > > > to 25 posts > > > > > > at a time > > > > > > > > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > > > nomail@yahoogrou > > > > > > ps.com for the > > > > > > > > No E-Mail option where you > > will still > > > > be able to > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > messages on the group and > > post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > > > normal@yahoogrou > > > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > > > receive individual > > e-mails..Yahoo! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >� � � > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- > > --------- > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > > > > > > > > ��.������`��.��. > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > .������`��..><((((��> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > > & if > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > > Your HELP > > > > in this > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups > > > > emails, > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > > > delivery > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > home > > > > > > page.� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- > > digest@yahoogrou > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > receive > > > > > > > > the digest, which includes up > > to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a > > > > > > > > single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > nomail@yahoogrou > > > > ps.com for > > > > > > the No > > > > > > > > E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages > > > > > > > > on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- > > normal@yahoogrou > > > > ps.com to > > > > > > receive > > > > > > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this > > message have > > > > been > > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > > > > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > > & if > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > > > > > , > > > > .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > > Your HELP > > > > in this > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups > > > > emails, > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > > > delivery > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > home > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes > > > > up to 25 > > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will > > > > still be > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > read messages on the group > > and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > > > , > > .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46344	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Bill - I know practically nothing about Rams, but so far, the one thing I feel pretty sure about is that they prefer a planted type tank. My reason is that mine spend most of their time in and among the bushes, and they get super stressed when I chop the plants down or remove a bunch of plants. When I say stressed I mean anxious swimming patterns, darting and losing their color...for whatever that's worth! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > So, am I understanding you that you have cleared up your water issues > and are ready for Rams? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:35 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > >> Hi Lainey, >> >> With me it's not a matter of "trying again" it's a "since" type of >> thing. >> A bit of history on Bill? Although I have been out of the hobby >> for some time, I would probably be considered by many as old >> school, going back to the 70's. At that time I was raising and >> breeding Discus and did so for almost 10 years, so it's not as >> though I'm really new to all of this. I'm just new to some of the >> products and technology that has come on the seen since that time. >> >> My tank setup was not as much an issue but complications with my >> well water were, not near as bad as yours but a large pH difference >> from 7.0. In addition I have spent the last 18 months on the >> gathering and studying of the Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi and meeting >> people who share their experience of keeping these fish. Like so >> many things it has been a difficult road to travel, in that today >> with the Internet and so many articles and so-called facts and >> "experts", it took quite a bit of time in separating these so >> called "facts" from the reality of things. Most of my study and >> concussions thereof are all now founded on facts and experience >> rather than the here-say information and speculation of others. >> >> On the matter of shipping or helping out others, you certainly have >> my ear on that point and I hope you will keep me in mind. But if >> you would rather not I certainly understand. Even so, "being a new >> Mom" is never easy and sometimes just the parting with new fry is a >> problem. I know in my early beginnings, it was like that for me. >> But be advised, just as Ray told you, you will have more and soon, >> if not already!(maybe check their rock). Rams are quite prolific >> once they have settled down to parenting. And I do believe the >> Rams have selected you to be their "spokes-person" and have >> definitely settled down to parenting so sooner or later you're >> going to have to make some choices. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >> wrote: >> >>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:11 AM >>> Hey Bill - >>> >>> Ya, I haven't been sure if you really want to try again >>> with Rams or >>> not...also, it was my understanding that the Rams don't do >>> well >>> (die?) in your setup? I thought maybe it's something about >>> your >>> water, not sure. >>> >>> I am still figuring out what to do about my babies, but >>> will >>> certainly be thinking about RAOKs as my primary >>> distribution method, >>> should I get that far. >>> >>> Also, I don't think I want to ship, though I'm sure someone >>> could >>> help me through that process, I just cringe when I think >>> about it... >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:08 AM, bill 1433 wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Amber, >>>> >>>> Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my >>> direction. I'm >>>> not sure >>>> if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or >>> not, when I >>>> said I was very much interested in them. Not >>> knowing me as long as >>>> you or the rest of the group do, she may have just >>> passed it off as >>>> a joke or missed the post entirely. We both know >>> that is >>>> incorrect, as I do often joke and kid around here, and >>> do have a >>>> sense of humor, but I never joke about Rams! >>>> >>>> Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish >>> requires a lot of >>>> prep work; obtaining a suitable container and in order >>> to achieve >>>> any success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not >>> air. She may >>>> just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish >>> club, she >>>> hasn't really said what she plans to do with them. If >>> she keeps >>>> giving those parents those bloodworms, she's going to >>> have another >>>> spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this morning. >>>> >>>> I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This >>> mail should have >>>> arrived last night as we were talking back and >>> fourth? For some >>>> Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this mornings >>> mail? >>>> What can you do? Sorry for the delay in >>> answering you. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby >>> brine/Cost of fish. >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM >>>>> Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal >>>>> on some of her babies ;) hehe. >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> bill 1433 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Amber, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw >>> this. First, >>>>> Aquabid does not >>>>>> have enough. Remember from my message just >>> sent? >>>>> Re-read what I sent >>>>>> Harry. It's not just the quality here but >>> most >>>>> definitely the >>>>>> quantity. You are buying these fish, however >>> great >>>>> they are, sight >>>>>> un-seen. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can't go back again next month and order >>> more >>>>> unless the seller >>>>>> will swear, that they are from the same >>> spawn. Size >>>>> and timing are >>>>>> everything here. Unless of course if you >>> just say no >>>>> to single fish >>>>>> all together and only deal with pairs, which >>> can be >>>>> dangerous and very >>>>>> expensive. I suspect this is where much of >>> the >>>>> Internet Lore on Rams >>>>>> comes from and why people have such a hard >>> time with >>>>> them. But then if >>>>>> they were really easy, what would we learn >>> and what >>>>> fun would we have >>>>>> learning it? >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry >>> eating baby >>>>> brine/Cost of fish. >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:52 >>> PM >>>>>>> Check aquabid for sellers with >>>>>>> auctions that include the shipping >>> price, >>>>>>> there are plenty that include the >>> shipping in the >>>>> auction >>>>>>> total, so you >>>>>>> don't have to pay extra on top of the >>> fish. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Amber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> bill 1433 wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Harry, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do know of Mark and the quality >>> of his >>>>> products. >>>>>>> Unfortunately for >>>>>>>> me, quantity is the problem. The >>> cost would >>>>> be out of >>>>>>> this world. We >>>>>>>> are not talking about six fish >>> here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry >>> <harryfisherman@... >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] >>> Ram fry >>>>> eating baby >>>>>>> brine/Cost of fish. >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, >>> 2010, 6:32 >>>>> PM >>>>>>>>> I've been dealing with Mark >>> for >>>>>>>>> years. Good prices healthy >>> fish. You >>>>> really >>>>>>> should check >>>>>>>>> this out. I don't get >>> anything out of >>>>> this. I >>>>>>> know you will >>>>>>>>> be pleased like hundreds of >>> other folks >>>>> you trust >>>>>>> him. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> >>>>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mark is also a past president >>> of the >>>>>>> International Betta >>>>>>>>> Congress and a member of this >>> group. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill >>> 1433 <warrenprint@... >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] >>> Ram fry >>>>> eating baby >>>>>>> brine >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, >>> 2010, 6:03 >>>>> PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hold it! Hold it! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Amber, are you trying to say >>> that you >>>>> have worse >>>>>>> luck than >>>>>>>>> I do with Rams? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's not fair or >>> possible! My >>>>> record so far, >>>>>>> covering >>>>>>>>> 18 months. Out of 12 German >>> Rams >>>>> purchased >>>>>>> within this >>>>>>>>> time period, one lonely >>> female left! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill >>> but surely >>>>> you have >>>>>>> other fish >>>>>>>>> left to keep you occupied? >>> Yes I >>>>> do! In that >>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> 29-gallon tank I have 1 >>> albino Cory cat >>>>> and 1 >>>>>>> Neon >>>>>>>>> Tetra! Oh yes, in my >>> 20-gallon >>>>> long? Zero! >>>>>>>>> Zip! Na-Da! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I forgot to mention Amber, >>> that >>>>> 55-gallon we >>>>>>> talked >>>>>>>>> about? Why get it, I have >>> nothing to >>>>> put in >>>>>>> it! >>>>>>>>> Now I know what your >>> thinking! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bill, why don't you just buy >>> more >>>>> Rams? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hey, no problem Amber, >>> where? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The cost of the flight would >>> put the >>>>> cost of the >>>>>>> fish right >>>>>>>>> out of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> my reach, even if I were >>> standing on a >>>>> chair to >>>>>>> reach it! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Take it easy and always >>> remember: "If >>>>> it can go >>>>>>>>> wrong, it will happen >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to "Bill" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber >>> Berglund >>>>>>> <arberglund@gmail. >>>>>>>>> com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund >>>>> <arberglund@gmail. >>>>>>> com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] >>> Ram fry >>>>> eating baby >>>>>>> brine >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. >>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, >>> 2010, 5:41 >>>>> PM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Actually I'd be interested if >>> I didn't >>>>> kill the >>>>>>> poor little >>>>>>>>> things, I'm >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> not sure what they don't like >>> about my >>>>> tanks but >>>>>>> they don't >>>>>>>>> like them >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> long term. All the blue Ram's >>> I've >>>>> bought in the >>>>>>> past have >>>>>>>>> slowly died >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> over time. *sniff* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do love them though. The >>> longest I've >>>>> had one >>>>>>> live in one >>>>>>>>> of my tanks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> was about 3 months. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Amber >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Amber. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Now, would you like me >>> to send you >>>>> fifty >>>>>>> baby rams? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Lainey >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 >>> PM, Amber >>>>> Berglund >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>    >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Wow, they're growing >>> fast :) >>>>> Congrats, >>>>>>> glad to see >>>>>>>>> things going >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> well for >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Amber >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Lainey Alexander >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Ray (and >>> Amber, thank >>>>> you for >>>>>>> your interest >>>>>>>>> in the little guys) - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have First >>> Bites by >>>>> Hikari, which >>>>>>> they do >>>>>>>>> like. Ray, I think you >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> missed my post >>> explaining >>>>> my >>>>>>> "system" so >>>>>>>>> far...I reposted this >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> for you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> They seem to be >>> eating the >>>>> BBS and >>>>>>> the First >>>>>>>>> Bites now. I use small >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> amounts of each >>> at each >>>>> feeding. You >>>>>>> will see >>>>>>>>> in the pictures, they >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> are huge now:) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a 20g >>> that John is >>>>> willing to >>>>>>> donate to >>>>>>>>> the cause. How >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> soon do >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> you think they >>> will need >>>>> it? Also, >>>>>>> can you >>>>>>>>> please tell me how soon >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> before they >>> would outgrow >>>>> the 20g? >>>>>>> At what age >>>>>>>>> will the males begin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to fight? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I can't figure >>> out what to >>>>> do with >>>>>>> them yet >>>>>>>>> long term... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Believe me, the >>> parents >>>>> are back at >>>>>>> it in the >>>>>>>>> bushes with the rock - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not even >>> checking in >>>>> there! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Here are >>> pictures under >>>>> "ram fry day >>>>>>> 15", or >>>>>>>>> in new photos: http:// >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> groups.yahoo. >>> com/group/ >>>>>>> AquaticLife/ >>>>>>>>> photos/album/ 2049115566/ >>> pic/list? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> mode=tn&order= >>>>>>> ordinal&start= >>>>>>>>> 21&count= 20&dir=asc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Lainey >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2010, >>> at 2:25 >>>>> PM, >>>>>>> sevenspringss@ >>>>>>>>> wmconnect. com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lainey, >>> How are the >>>>> Ram fry >>>>>>> doing? >>>>>>>>> Haven't heard much on them >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>     >>>   >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sunday, and >>> then you >>>>> only said >>>>>>> they were >>>>>>>>> eating BBS. Noticed you >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked about >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> feeding them >>> powdered >>>>> food. I >>>>>>> wasn't aware >>>>>>>>> you were able to get any >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> as you >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>> mentioned >>>>> Liquifry. What >>>>>>> kind of >>>>>>>>> powdered food were you able >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to get? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I presume >>> they must be >>>>> growing >>>>>>> at least a >>>>>>>>> bit. Have you given any >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> further >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thought >>> about getting >>>>> a larger >>>>>>> tank for >>>>>>>>> theM? They'll soon need >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> larger. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> While I >>> mentioned a 20 >>>>> Gallon >>>>>>> Long tank, >>>>>>>>> if you have the room you >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to >>> consider a 30 >>>>> Gallon >>>>>>> Breeder tank >>>>>>>>> which is only another 6" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> longer (at >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 36"L x 18"W >>> x 12"H), >>>>> since this >>>>>>> would have >>>>>>>>> the most area (bottom & >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> surface), >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> allowing for >>> greater >>>>> room to >>>>>>> grow and >>>>>>>>> maximum gasous exchange. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Second to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that would >>> be a >>>>> regular 30 >>>>>>> Gallon Long (at >>>>>>>>> 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3/4" H) if >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> you didn't >>> want to go >>>>> with the >>>>>>> extra >>>>>>>>> width. I would remind you >>> that >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> pair could >>> well spawn >>>>> again >>>>>>> within another >>>>>>>>> week. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You haven't >>> indicated >>>>> to us what >>>>>>> you've >>>>>>>>> decided when feeding them >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> BBS, or >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if they were >>> all near >>>>> a uniform >>>>>>> size to >>>>>>>>> accept it. Neither have you >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> got back >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to us >>> concerning how >>>>> many >>>>>>> feedings per day >>>>>>>>> you've decided on. How >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> your methods >>> for >>>>> cleaning off >>>>>>> the bottom >>>>>>>>> debris? Please fill us in >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> on your >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> decisions >>> and how >>>>> things are >>>>>>> going. Ray >>>>>>>>> </HTML> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>     >>>   >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [Non-text >>> portions of this >>>>> message >>>>>>> have been >>>>>>>>> removed] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ >>> --------- >>>>> --------- >>>>>>> ------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE >>> this line >>>>> and >>>>>>> EVERYTHING below >>>>>>>>> it when replying, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank You. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>> , >>>>>>> .·´¯`·..>< >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ((((º> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you >>> REPLY to >>>>> a post, >>>>>>> DELETE all >>>>>>>>> TEXT that is NOT >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> important to the >>> reply & >>>>> if CHANGING >>>>>>> the TOPIC >>>>>>>>> of the original >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> message MODIFY the >>> SUBJECT >>>>> LINE -> >>>>>>> i.e. "new >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> subject)" <- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>>>>>>>> , >>>>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We Thank You in >>> Advance >>>>> for Your >>>>>>> HELP in this >>>>>>>>> matter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you do not >>> want all of >>>>> the groups >>>>>>> emails, >>>>>>>>> instead of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you >>> can change >>>>> your >>>>>>> delivery option >>>>>>>>> by clicking on >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Edit My Membership" >>> on the >>>>> home page. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail >>> aquaticlife- >>>>>>> digest@yahoogrou ps.com >>>>>>>>> to receive the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> digest, which >>> includes up to >>>>> 25 posts at >>>>>>> a time in >>>>>>>>> a single email >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email >>> aquaticlife- >>>>>>> nomail@yahoogrou ps.com >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> option where you >>> will still be >>>>> able to >>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>> messages on the group >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> and post replies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email >>> aquaticlife- >>>>>>> normal@yahoogrou ps.com >>>>>>>>> to receive individual >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> e-mails.Yahoo! >>> Groups Links >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>     >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>      >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of >>> this message >>>>> have been >>>>>>> removed] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------ --------- >>> --------- >>>>> ------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line >>> and >>>>> EVERYTHING >>>>>>> below it when >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>> , >>>>>>>>> >>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY >>> to a post, >>>>> DELETE all >>>>>>> TEXT that >>>>>>>>> is NOT important to the reply >>> & if >>>>> CHANGING >>>>>>> the TOPIC of >>>>>>>>> the original message MODIFY >>> the SUBJECT >>>>> LINE >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old >>> subject)" <- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance >>> for Your >>>>> HELP in >>>>>>> this matter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you do not want all >>> of the >>>>> groups emails, >>>>>>> instead >>>>>>>>> of unsubscribing, you can >>> change your >>>>> delivery >>>>>>> option by >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My >>> Membership" on the >>>>> home >>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- >>>>> digest@yahoogrou >>>>>>> ps.com to >>>>>>>>> receive the digest, which >>> includes up >>>>> to 25 posts >>>>>>> at a time >>>>>>>>> in a single email >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- >>>>> nomail@yahoogrou >>>>>>> ps.com for the >>>>>>>>> No E-Mail option where you >>> will still >>>>> be able to >>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>> messages on the group and >>> post >>>>> replies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- >>>>> normal@yahoogrou >>>>>>> ps.com to >>>>>>>>> receive individual >>> e-mails..Yahoo! >>>>> Groups Links >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>    >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------ --------- >>> --------- >>>>> ------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line and >>> EVERYTHING >>>>> below it >>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>> , >>>>>>>>> >>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a >>> post, >>>>> DELETE all TEXT >>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the reply >>> & if >>>>> CHANGING the >>>>>>> TOPIC of >>>>>>>>> the original message MODIFY >>> the SUBJECT >>>>> LINE >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old >>> subject)" <- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance for >>> Your HELP >>>>> in this >>>>>>> matter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all of the >>> groups >>>>> emails, >>>>>>> instead of >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can change >>> your >>>>> delivery >>>>>>> option by >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My >>> Membership" on the >>>>> home >>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- >>> digest@yahoogrou >>>>> ps.com to >>>>>>> receive >>>>>>>>> the digest, which includes up >>> to 25 >>>>> posts at a >>>>>>> time in a >>>>>>>>> single email >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- >>> nomail@yahoogrou >>>>> ps.com for >>>>>>> the No >>>>>>>>> E-Mail option where you will >>> still be >>>>> able to >>>>>>> read messages >>>>>>>>> on the group and post >>> replies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- >>> normal@yahoogrou >>>>> ps.com to >>>>>>> receive >>>>>>>>> individual e-mails.Yahoo! >>> Groups Links >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this >>> message have >>>>> been >>>>>>> removed] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line and >>> EVERYTHING >>>>> below it >>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >>>>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a >>> post, >>>>> DELETE all TEXT >>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the reply >>> & if >>>>> CHANGING the >>>>>>> TOPIC of >>>>>>>>> the original message MODIFY >>> the SUBJECT >>>>> LINE >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old >>> subject)" <- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>>>>>>>> , >>>>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance for >>> Your HELP >>>>> in this >>>>>>> matter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all of the >>> groups >>>>> emails, >>>>>>> instead of >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can change >>> your >>>>> delivery >>>>>>> option by >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My >>> Membership" on the >>>>> home >>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>>>> to receive the digest, which >>> includes >>>>> up to 25 >>>>>>> posts at a >>>>>>>>> time in a single email >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail option >>> where you will >>>>> still be >>>>>>> able to >>>>>>>>> read messages on the group >>> and post >>>>> replies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>>>> to receive individual >>> e-mails.Yahoo! >>>>> Groups >>>>>>> Links >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING >>> below it >>>>> when >>>>>>> replying, Thank You. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , >>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, >>> DELETE all TEXT >>>>> that is >>>>>>> NOT important to the reply & if >>> CHANGING the >>>>> TOPIC of >>>>>>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT >>> LINE >>>>> -> i.e. "new >>>>>>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>>>>>> , >>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP >>> in this >>>>> matter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you do not want all of the groups >>> emails, >>>>> instead of >>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can change your >>> delivery >>>>> option by >>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >>> home >>>>> page. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> to receive the digest, which includes >>> up to 25 >>>>> posts at a >>>>>>> time in a single email >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> for the No E-Mail option where you will >>> still be >>>>> able to >>>>>>> read messages on the group and post >>> replies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> >>>>>>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46345	From: mattyobones	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > Don't forget they also need at least 80 to 82 degree water. > Bill - > > I know practically nothing about Rams, but so far, the one thing I > feel pretty sure about is that they prefer a planted type tank. My > reason is that mine spend most of their time in and among the bushes, > and they get super stressed when I chop the plants down or remove a > bunch of plants. When I say stressed I mean anxious swimming > patterns, darting and losing their color...for whatever that's worth! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > So, am I understanding you that you have cleared up your water issues > > and are ready for Rams? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:35 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > >> Hi Lainey, > >> > >> With me it's not a matter of "trying again" it's a "since" type of > >> thing. > >> A bit of history on Bill? Although I have been out of the hobby > >> for some time, I would probably be considered by many as old > >> school, going back to the 70's. At that time I was raising and > >> breeding Discus and did so for almost 10 years, so it's not as > >> though I'm really new to all of this. I'm just new to some of the > >> products and technology that has come on the seen since that time. > >> > >> My tank setup was not as much an issue but complications with my > >> well water were, not near as bad as yours but a large pH difference > >> from 7.0. In addition I have spent the last 18 months on the > >> gathering and studying of the Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi and meeting > >> people who share their experience of keeping these fish. Like so > >> many things it has been a difficult road to travel, in that today > >> with the Internet and so many articles and so-called facts and > >> "experts", it took quite a bit of time in separating these so > >> called "facts" from the reality of things. Most of my study and > >> concussions thereof are all now founded on facts and experience > >> rather than the here-say information and speculation of others. > >> > >> On the matter of shipping or helping out others, you certainly have > >> my ear on that point and I hope you will keep me in mind. But if > >> you would rather not I certainly understand. Even so, "being a new > >> Mom" is never easy and sometimes just the parting with new fry is a > >> problem. I know in my early beginnings, it was like that for me. > >> But be advised, just as Ray told you, you will have more and soon, > >> if not already!(maybe check their rock). Rams are quite prolific > >> once they have settled down to parenting. And I do believe the > >> Rams have selected you to be their "spokes-person" and have > >> definitely settled down to parenting so sooner or later you're > >> going to have to make some choices. > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>> Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:11 AM > >>> Hey Bill - > >>> > >>> Ya, I haven't been sure if you really want to try again > >>> with Rams or > >>> not...also, it was my understanding that the Rams don't do > >>> well > >>> (die?) in your setup? I thought maybe it's something about > >>> your > >>> water, not sure. > >>> > >>> I am still figuring out what to do about my babies, but > >>> will > >>> certainly be thinking about RAOKs as my primary > >>> distribution method, > >>> should I get that far. > >>> > >>> Also, I don't think I want to ship, though I'm sure someone > >>> could > >>> help me through that process, I just cringe when I think > >>> about it... > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:08 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Amber, > >>>> > >>>> Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my > >>> direction. I'm > >>>> not sure > >>>> if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or > >>> not, when I > >>>> said I was very much interested in them. Not > >>> knowing me as long as > >>>> you or the rest of the group do, she may have just > >>> passed it off as > >>>> a joke or missed the post entirely. We both know > >>> that is > >>>> incorrect, as I do often joke and kid around here, and > >>> do have a > >>>> sense of humor, but I never joke about Rams! > >>>> > >>>> Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish > >>> requires a lot of > >>>> prep work; obtaining a suitable container and in order > >>> to achieve > >>>> any success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not > >>> air. She may > >>>> just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish > >>> club, she > >>>> hasn't really said what she plans to do with them. If > >>> she keeps > >>>> giving those parents those bloodworms, she's going to > >>> have another > >>>> spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this morning. > >>>> > >>>> I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This > >>> mail should have > >>>> arrived last night as we were talking back and > >>> fourth? For some > >>>> Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this mornings > >>> mail? > >>>> What can you do? Sorry for the delay in > >>> answering you. > >>>> > >>>> Bill > >>>> > >>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > >>> brine/Cost of fish. > >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM > >>>>> Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal > >>>>> on some of her babies ;) hehe. > >>>>> > >>>>> Amber > >>>>> > >>>>> bill 1433 wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Amber, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw > >>> this. First, > >>>>> Aquabid does not > >>>>>> have enough. Remember from my message just > >>> sent? > >>>>> Re-read what I sent > >>>>>> Harry. It's not just the quality here but > >>> most > >>>>> definitely the > >>>>>> quantity. You are buying these fish, however > >>> great > >>>>> they are, sight > >>>>>> un-seen. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You can't go back again next month and order > >>> more > >>>>> unless the seller > >>>>>> will swear, that they are from the same > >>> spawn. Size > >>>>> and timing are > >>>>>> everything here. Unless of course if you > >>> just say no > >>>>> to single fish > >>>>>> all together and only deal with pairs, which > >>> can be > >>>>> dangerous and very > >>>>>> expensive. I suspect this is where much of > >>> the > >>>>> Internet Lore on Rams > >>>>>> comes from and why people have such a hard > >>> time with > >>>>> them. But then if > >>>>>> they were really easy, what would we learn > >>> and what > >>>>> fun would we have > >>>>>> learning it? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > >>> eating baby > >>>>> brine/Cost of fish. > >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 9:52 > >>> PM > >>>>>>> Check aquabid for sellers with > >>>>>>> auctions that include the shipping > >>> price, > >>>>>>> there are plenty that include the > >>> shipping in the > >>>>> auction > >>>>>>> total, so you > >>>>>>> don't have to pay extra on top of the > >>> fish. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Amber > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> bill 1433 wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks Harry, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I do know of Mark and the quality > >>> of his > >>>>> products. > >>>>>>> Unfortunately for > >>>>>>>> me, quantity is the problem. The > >>> cost would > >>>>> be out of > >>>>>>> this world. We > >>>>>>>> are not talking about six fish > >>> here. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Bill > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry perry > >>> <harryfisherman@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: harry perry <harryfisherman@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > >>> Ram fry > >>>>> eating baby > >>>>>>> brine/Cost of fish. > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, > >>> 2010, 6:32 > >>>>> PM > >>>>>>>>> I've been dealing with Mark > >>> for > >>>>>>>>> years. Good prices healthy > >>> fish. You > >>>>> really > >>>>>>> should check > >>>>>>>>> this out. I don't get > >>> anything out of > >>>>> this. I > >>>>>>> know you will > >>>>>>>>> be pleased like hundreds of > >>> other folks > >>>>> you trust > >>>>>>> him. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > >>>>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Mark is also a past president > >>> of the > >>>>>>> International Betta > >>>>>>>>> Congress and a member of this > >>> group. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, bill > >>> 1433 <warrenprint@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > >>>>>>> > >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > >>> Ram fry > >>>>> eating baby > >>>>>>> brine > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, > >>> 2010, 6:03 > >>>>> PM > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hold it! Hold it! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Amber, are you trying to say > >>> that you > >>>>> have worse > >>>>>>> luck than > >>>>>>>>> I do with Rams? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> That's not fair or > >>> possible! My > >>>>> record so far, > >>>>>>> covering > >>>>>>>>> 18 months. Out of 12 German > >>> Rams > >>>>> purchased > >>>>>>> within this > >>>>>>>>> time period, one lonely > >>> female left! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Ok, ok, you say, sorry Bill > >>> but surely > >>>>> you have > >>>>>>> other fish > >>>>>>>>> left to keep you occupied? > >>> Yes I > >>>>> do! In that > >>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>>> 29-gallon tank I have 1 > >>> albino Cory cat > >>>>> and 1 > >>>>>>> Neon > >>>>>>>>> Tetra! Oh yes, in my > >>> 20-gallon > >>>>> long? Zero! > >>>>>>>>> Zip! Na-Da! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I forgot to mention Amber, > >>> that > >>>>> 55-gallon we > >>>>>>> talked > >>>>>>>>> about? Why get it, I have > >>> nothing to > >>>>> put in > >>>>>>> it! > >>>>>>>>> Now I know what your > >>> thinking! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Bill, why don't you just buy > >>> more > >>>>> Rams? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hey, no problem Amber, > >>> where? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> The cost of the flight would > >>> put the > >>>>> cost of the > >>>>>>> fish right > >>>>>>>>> out of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> my reach, even if I were > >>> standing on a > >>>>> chair to > >>>>>>> reach it! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Take it easy and always > >>> remember: "If > >>>>> it can go > >>>>>>>>> wrong, it will happen > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> to "Bill" > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber > >>> Berglund > >>>>>>> <arberglund@gmail. > >>>>>>>>> com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund > >>>>> <arberglund@gmail. > >>>>>>> com> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > >>> Ram fry > >>>>> eating baby > >>>>>>> brine > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > >>> com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, > >>> 2010, 5:41 > >>>>> PM > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Actually I'd be interested if > >>> I didn't > >>>>> kill the > >>>>>>> poor little > >>>>>>>>> things, I'm > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> not sure what they don't like > >>> about my > >>>>> tanks but > >>>>>>> they don't > >>>>>>>>> like them > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> long term. All the blue Ram's > >>> I've > >>>>> bought in the > >>>>>>> past have > >>>>>>>>> slowly died > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> over time. *sniff* > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I do love them though. The > >>> longest I've > >>>>> had one > >>>>>>> live in one > >>>>>>>>> of my tanks > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> was about 3 months. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Amber > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Amber. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Now, would you like me > >>> to send you > >>>>> fifty > >>>>>>> baby rams? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> :) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Lainey > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 5:35 > >>> PM, Amber > >>>>> Berglund > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>    > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Wow, they're growing > >>> fast :) > >>>>> Congrats, > >>>>>>> glad to see > >>>>>>>>> things going > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> well for > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Amber > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Lainey Alexander > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Ray (and > >>> Amber, thank > >>>>> you for > >>>>>>> your interest > >>>>>>>>> in the little guys) - > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have First > >>> Bites by > >>>>> Hikari, which > >>>>>>> they do > >>>>>>>>> like. Ray, I think you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> missed my post > >>> explaining > >>>>> my > >>>>>>> "system" so > >>>>>>>>> far...I reposted this > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> for you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> They seem to be > >>> eating the > >>>>> BBS and > >>>>>>> the First > >>>>>>>>> Bites now. I use small > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> amounts of each > >>> at each > >>>>> feeding. You > >>>>>>> will see > >>>>>>>>> in the pictures, they > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> are huge now:) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a 20g > >>> that John is > >>>>> willing to > >>>>>>> donate to > >>>>>>>>> the cause. How > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> soon do > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> you think they > >>> will need > >>>>> it? Also, > >>>>>>> can you > >>>>>>>>> please tell me how soon > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> before they > >>> would outgrow > >>>>> the 20g? > >>>>>>> At what age > >>>>>>>>> will the males begin > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> to fight? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I can't figure > >>> out what to > >>>>> do with > >>>>>>> them yet > >>>>>>>>> long term... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Believe me, the > >>> parents > >>>>> are back at > >>>>>>> it in the > >>>>>>>>> bushes with the rock - > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not even > >>> checking in > >>>>> there! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Here are > >>> pictures under > >>>>> "ram fry day > >>>>>>> 15", or > >>>>>>>>> in new photos: http:// > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> groups.yahoo. > >>> com/group/ > >>>>>>> AquaticLife/ > >>>>>>>>> photos/album/ 2049115566/ > >>> pic/list? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> mode=tn&order= > >>>>>>> ordinal&start= > >>>>>>>>> 21&count= 20&dir=asc > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Lainey > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2010, > >>> at 2:25 > >>>>> PM, > >>>>>>> sevenspringss@ > >>>>>>>>> wmconnect. com wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lainey, > >>> How are the > >>>>> Ram fry > >>>>>>> doing? > >>>>>>>>> Haven't heard much on them > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> since > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sunday, and > >>> then you > >>>>> only said > >>>>>>> they were > >>>>>>>>> eating BBS. Noticed you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked about > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> feeding them > >>> powdered > >>>>> food. I > >>>>>>> wasn't aware > >>>>>>>>> you were able to get any > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> as you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> just > >>> mentioned > >>>>> Liquifry. What > >>>>>>> kind of > >>>>>>>>> powdered food were you able > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to get? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I presume > >>> they must be > >>>>> growing > >>>>>>> at least a > >>>>>>>>> bit. Have you given any > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> further > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> thought > >>> about getting > >>>>> a larger > >>>>>>> tank for > >>>>>>>>> theM? They'll soon need > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> something > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> larger. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While I > >>> mentioned a 20 > >>>>> Gallon > >>>>>>> Long tank, > >>>>>>>>> if you have the room you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> might > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to > >>> consider a 30 > >>>>> Gallon > >>>>>>> Breeder tank > >>>>>>>>> which is only another 6" > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> longer (at > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 36"L x 18"W > >>> x 12"H), > >>>>> since this > >>>>>>> would have > >>>>>>>>> the most area (bottom & > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> surface), > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> allowing for > >>> greater > >>>>> room to > >>>>>>> grow and > >>>>>>>>> maximum gasous exchange. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Second to > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that would > >>> be a > >>>>> regular 30 > >>>>>>> Gallon Long (at > >>>>>>>>> 36" L x 12 5/8" W x 16 > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3/4" H) if > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> you didn't > >>> want to go > >>>>> with the > >>>>>>> extra > >>>>>>>>> width. I would remind you > >>> that > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> your > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> pair could > >>> well spawn > >>>>> again > >>>>>>> within another > >>>>>>>>> week. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You haven't > >>> indicated > >>>>> to us what > >>>>>>> you've > >>>>>>>>> decided when feeding them > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> BBS, or > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> if they were > >>> all near > >>>>> a uniform > >>>>>>> size to > >>>>>>>>> accept it. Neither have you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> got back > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to us > >>> concerning how > >>>>> many > >>>>>>> feedings per day > >>>>>>>>> you've decided on. How > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> about > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> your methods > >>> for > >>>>> cleaning off > >>>>>>> the bottom > >>>>>>>>> debris? Please fill us in > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on your > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> decisions > >>> and how > >>>>> things are > >>>>>>> going. Ray > >>>>>>>>> </HTML> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [Non-text > >>> portions of this > >>>>> message > >>>>>>> have been > >>>>>>>>> removed] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ > >>> --------- > >>>>> --------- > >>>>>>> ------ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE > >>> this line > >>>>> and > >>>>>>> EVERYTHING below > >>>>>>>>> it when replying, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thank You. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>> , > >>>>>>> .·´¯`·..>< > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ((((º> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you > >>> REPLY to > >>>>> a post, > >>>>>>> DELETE all > >>>>>>>>> TEXT that is NOT > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> important to the > >>> reply & > >>>>> if CHANGING > >>>>>>> the TOPIC > >>>>>>>>> of the original > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> message MODIFY the > >>> SUBJECT > >>>>> LINE -> > >>>>>>> i.e. "new > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> subject)" <- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>>>>>> , > >>>>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > >>> Advance > >>>>> for Your > >>>>>>> HELP in this > >>>>>>>>> matter. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> If you do not > >>> want all of > >>>>> the groups > >>>>>>> emails, > >>>>>>>>> instead of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you > >>> can change > >>>>> your > >>>>>>> delivery option > >>>>>>>>> by clicking on > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> "Edit My Membership" > >>> on the > >>>>> home page. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > >>> aquaticlife- > >>>>>>> digest@yahoogrou ps.com > >>>>>>>>> to receive the > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> digest, which > >>> includes up to > >>>>> 25 posts at > >>>>>>> a time in > >>>>>>>>> a single email > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email > >>> aquaticlife- > >>>>>>> nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> option where you > >>> will still be > >>>>> able to > >>>>>>> read > >>>>>>>>> messages on the group > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> and post replies. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email > >>> aquaticlife- > >>>>>>> normal@yahoogrou ps.com > >>>>>>>>> to receive individual > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> e-mails.Yahoo! > >>> Groups Links > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>      > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of > >>> this message > >>>>> have been > >>>>>>> removed] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ------------ --------- > >>> --------- > >>>>> ------ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line > >>> and > >>>>> EVERYTHING > >>>>>>> below it when > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You.. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>> , > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY > >>> to a post, > >>>>> DELETE all > >>>>>>> TEXT that > >>>>>>>>> is NOT important to the reply > >>> & if > >>>>> CHANGING > >>>>>>> the TOPIC of > >>>>>>>>> the original message MODIFY > >>> the SUBJECT > >>>>> LINE > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > >>> subject)" <- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>>>>>> , > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance > >>> for Your > >>>>> HELP in > >>>>>>> this matter. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> If you do not want all > >>> of the > >>>>> groups emails, > >>>>>>> instead > >>>>>>>>> of unsubscribing, you can > >>> change your > >>>>> delivery > >>>>>>> option by > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > >>> Membership" on the > >>>>> home > >>>>>>> page. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- > >>>>> digest@yahoogrou > >>>>>>> ps.com to > >>>>>>>>> receive the digest, which > >>> includes up > >>>>> to 25 posts > >>>>>>> at a time > >>>>>>>>> in a single email > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > >>>>> nomail@yahoogrou > >>>>>>> ps.com for the > >>>>>>>>> No E-Mail option where you > >>> will still > >>>>> be able to > >>>>>>> read > >>>>>>>>> messages on the group and > >>> post > >>>>> replies. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > >>>>> normal@yahoogrou > >>>>>>> ps.com to > >>>>>>>>> receive individual > >>> e-mails..Yahoo! > >>>>> Groups Links > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>    > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ------------ --------- > >>> --------- > >>>>> ------ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line and > >>> EVERYTHING > >>>>> below it > >>>>>>> when > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>> , > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > >>> post, > >>>>> DELETE all TEXT > >>>>>>> that is > >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the reply > >>> & if > >>>>> CHANGING the > >>>>>>> TOPIC of > >>>>>>>>> the original message MODIFY > >>> the SUBJECT > >>>>> LINE > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > >>> subject)" <- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>>>>>> , > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance for > >>> Your HELP > >>>>> in this > >>>>>>> matter. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all of the > >>> groups > >>>>> emails, > >>>>>>> instead of > >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can change > >>> your > >>>>> delivery > >>>>>>> option by > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > >>> Membership" on the > >>>>> home > >>>>>>> page. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife- > >>> digest@yahoogrou > >>>>> ps.com to > >>>>>>> receive > >>>>>>>>> the digest, which includes up > >>> to 25 > >>>>> posts at a > >>>>>>> time in a > >>>>>>>>> single email > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > >>> nomail@yahoogrou > >>>>> ps.com for > >>>>>>> the No > >>>>>>>>> E-Mail option where you will > >>> still be > >>>>> able to > >>>>>>> read messages > >>>>>>>>> on the group and post > >>> replies. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > >>> normal@yahoogrou > >>>>> ps.com to > >>>>>>> receive > >>>>>>>>> individual e-mails.Yahoo! > >>> Groups Links > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this > >>> message have > >>>>> been > >>>>>>> removed] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line and > >>> EVERYTHING > >>>>> below it > >>>>>>> when > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > >>>>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > >>> post, > >>>>> DELETE all TEXT > >>>>>>> that is > >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the reply > >>> & if > >>>>> CHANGING the > >>>>>>> TOPIC of > >>>>>>>>> the original message MODIFY > >>> the SUBJECT > >>>>> LINE > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > >>> subject)" <- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>>>>>> , > >>>>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance for > >>> Your HELP > >>>>> in this > >>>>>>> matter. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all of the > >>> groups > >>>>> emails, > >>>>>>> instead of > >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can change > >>> your > >>>>> delivery > >>>>>>> option by > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > >>> Membership" on the > >>>>> home > >>>>>>> page. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> to receive the digest, which > >>> includes > >>>>> up to 25 > >>>>>>> posts at a > >>>>>>>>> time in a single email > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail option > >>> where you will > >>>>> still be > >>>>>>> able to > >>>>>>>>> read messages on the group > >>> and post > >>>>> replies. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> to receive individual > >>> e-mails.Yahoo! > >>>>> Groups > >>>>>>> Links > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------------ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > >>> below it > >>>>> when > >>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > >>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > >>> DELETE all TEXT > >>>>> that is > >>>>>>> NOT important to the reply & if > >>> CHANGING the > >>>>> TOPIC of > >>>>>>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > >>> LINE > >>>>> -> i.e. "new > >>>>>>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>>>> , > >>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > >>> in this > >>>>> matter. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you do not want all of the groups > >>> emails, > >>>>> instead of > >>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can change your > >>> delivery > >>>>> option by > >>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > >>> home > >>>>> page. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> to receive the digest, which includes > >>> up to 25 > >>>>> posts at a > >>>>>>> time in a single email > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> for the No E-Mail option where you will > >>> still be > >>>>> able to > >>>>>>> read messages on the group and post > >>> replies. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > >>> Groups > >>>>> Links > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------ > >>>>> > >>>>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > >>> when > >>>>> replying, Thank You. > >>>>> > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > >>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > >>> that is > >>>>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > >>> TOPIC of > >>>>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > >>> -> i.e. "new > >>>>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >>>>> > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>> , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > >>> matter. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, > >>> instead of > >>>>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > >>> option by > >>>>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > >>> page. > >>>>> > >>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > >>> posts at a > >>>>> time in a single email > >>>>> > >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > >>> able to > >>>>> read messages on the group and post replies. > >>>>> > >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > >>> Links > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > >>> replying, Thank You. > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > >>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > >>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > >>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>> , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > >>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >>> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > >>> time in a single email > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > >>> read messages on the group and post replies. > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46346	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Hi Lainey, Please forgive here, as I'm going to answer you're 12:44 posting and you're latest of 12:50 together. I am not an expert on Rams either but I have learned some valuable things about them.  I did not clear up the water issues, I learned about them.  My well has a pH of 5.5 to 5.8 all the time.  It also has absolutely no hardness readings at all!  No GH and No KH.  These are perfect conditions for Rams but every time I tried to get Rams they would die, usually within 2 weeks.  The reason was the tremendous change in water parameters.  I had already checked and double-checked my water-baseline but in my enthusiasm to get the Rams, I neglected to check THEIR water parameters in the stores where I was buying them, and most importantly, to do this BEFORE I attempted to acclimate them or even mix their waters together. What happened was that the pH was too great an adjustment for them or any other fish for that matter.  With this in mind, I deliberately changed the parameters to a more neutral tank with a GH of 85 and a KH of 20.  This is accomplished through the use of crushed coral. The second problem is size, it is not a good idea to place Rams or any other Cichlid of different sizes together in the same tank.  The smaller fish gets stressed from the larger ones chasing them away from the food, eventually they give up all together go to the darkest place in the tank they can find and die.  Again, a lesson I learned the hard way.  Maybe in some cases with larger tanks it could be done but I would not recommend it. This ties-in directly to your second message about plants. Yes it's true I have no live plants (perhaps sometime later when you have more time, you can give us some idea of your lighting arrangements you must be doing this along time to have such beautifully planted tanks) but do have an abundance of plastic ones as well as some very nice large clay caves from Doctors which I just purchased.  Rams, like the Discus, are timed by nature and would prefer a tank with a lot of hiding places.  But more important than that is change.  Rams do not like change of any kind.  They don't like their tank being re-arranged or too many things being moved in it once they are settled into it, and worse, they themselves  don't like being moved either. Bill --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 12:50 PM > Bill - > > I know practically nothing about Rams, but so far, the one > thing I  > feel pretty sure about is that they prefer a planted type > tank. My  > reason is that mine spend most of their time in and among > the bushes,  > and they get super stressed when I chop the plants down or > remove a  > bunch of plants. When I say stressed I mean anxious > swimming  > patterns, darting and losing their color...for whatever > that's worth! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > So, am I understanding you that you have cleared up > your water issues > > and are ready for Rams? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:35 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > >> Hi Lainey, > >> > >> With me it's not a matter of "trying again" it's a > "since" type of > >> thing. > >> A bit of history on Bill?  Although I have > been out of the hobby > >> for some time, I would probably be considered by > many as old > >> school, going back to the 70's.  At that time > I was raising and > >> breeding Discus and did so for almost 10 years, so > it's not as > >> though I'm really new to all of this.  I'm > just new to some of the > >> products and technology that has come on the seen > since that time. > >> > >> My tank setup was not as much an issue but > complications with my > >> well water were, not near as bad as yours but a > large pH difference > >> from 7.0.  In addition I have spent the last > 18 months on the > >> gathering and studying of the Mikrogeophagus > Ramirezi and meeting > >> people who share their experience of keeping these > fish.  Like so > >> many things it has been a difficult road to > travel, in that today > >> with the Internet and so many articles and > so-called facts and > >> "experts", it took quite a bit of time in > separating these so > >> called "facts" from the reality of > things.   Most of my study and > >> concussions thereof are all now founded on facts > and experience > >> rather than the here-say information and > speculation of others. > >> > >> On the matter of shipping or helping out others, > you certainly have > >> my ear on that point and I hope you will keep me > in mind.  But if > >> you would rather not I certainly understand.  > Even so, "being a new > >> Mom" is never easy and sometimes just the parting > with new fry is a > >> problem.  I know in my early beginnings, it > was like that for me. > >> But be advised, just as Ray told you, you will > have more and soon, > >> if not already!(maybe check their rock).  > Rams are quite prolific > >> once they have settled down to parenting.  > And I do believe the > >> Rams have selected you to be their "spokes-person" > and have > >> definitely settled down to parenting so sooner or > later you're > >> going to have to make some choices. > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...>  > > >> wrote: > >> > >>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > brine/Cost of fish. > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>> Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:11 AM > >>> Hey Bill - > >>> > >>> Ya, I haven't been sure if you really want to > try again > >>> with Rams or > >>> not...also, it was my understanding that the > Rams don't do > >>> well > >>> (die?) in your setup? I thought maybe it's > something about > >>> your > >>> water, not sure. > >>> > >>> I am still figuring out what to do about my > babies, but > >>> will > >>> certainly be thinking about RAOKs as my > primary > >>> distribution method, > >>> should I get that far. > >>> > >>> Also, I don't think I want to ship, though I'm > sure someone > >>> could > >>> help me through that process, I just cringe > when I think > >>> about it... > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:08 AM, bill 1433 > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Amber, > >>>> > >>>> Up to this point, she has made no such > offer in my > >>> direction.  I'm > >>>> not sure > >>>> if she thought I was kidding about her > Rams before or > >>> not, when I > >>>> said I was very much interested in > them.  Not > >>> knowing me as long as > >>>> you or the rest of the group do, she may > have just > >>> passed it off as > >>>> a joke or missed the post entirely.  > We both know > >>> that is > >>>> incorrect, as I do often joke and kid > around here, and > >>> do have a > >>>> sense of humor, but I never joke about > Rams! > >>>> > >>>> Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping > fish > >>> requires a lot of > >>>> prep work; obtaining a suitable container > and in order > >>> to achieve > >>>> any success at all, oxygen for the bag > itself not > >>> air.  She may > >>>> just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a > local fish > >>> club, she > >>>> hasn't really said what she plans to do > with them. If > >>> she keeps > >>>> giving those parents those bloodworms, > she's going to > >>> have another > >>>> spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this > morning. > >>>> > >>>> I'm asking your forgiveness here > Amber.  This > >>> mail should have > >>>> arrived last night as we were talking back > and > >>> fourth?  For some > >>>> Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this > mornings > >>> mail? > >>>> What can you do?  Sorry for the delay > in > >>> answering you. > >>>> > >>>> Bill > >>>> > >>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > eating baby > >>> brine/Cost of fish. > >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, > 10:35 PM > >>>>> Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal > >>>>> on some of her babies ;) hehe. > >>>>> > >>>>> Amber > >>>>> > >>>>> bill 1433 wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Amber, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sorry just sent you a mail before > I saw > >>> this. First, > >>>>> Aquabid does not > >>>>>> have enough. Remember from my > message just > >>> sent? > >>>>> Re-read what I sent > >>>>>> Harry. It's not just the quality > here but > >>> most > >>>>> definitely the > >>>>>> quantity. You are buying these > fish, however > >>> great > >>>>> they are, sight > >>>>>> un-seen. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You can't go back again next month > and order > >>> more > >>>>> unless the seller > >>>>>> will swear, that they are from the > same > >>> spawn. Size > >>>>> and timing are > >>>>>> everything here. Unless of course > if you > >>> just say no > >>>>> to single fish > >>>>>> all together and only deal with > pairs, which > >>> can be > >>>>> dangerous and very > >>>>>> expensive. I suspect this is where > much of > >>> the > >>>>> Internet Lore on Rams > >>>>>> comes from and why people have > such a hard > >>> time with > >>>>> them. But then if > >>>>>> they were really easy, what would > we learn > >>> and what > >>>>> fun would we have > >>>>>> learning it? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber > Berglund <arberglund@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram > fry > >>> eating baby > >>>>> brine/Cost of fish. > >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, > 2010, 9:52 > >>> PM > >>>>>>> Check aquabid for sellers > with > >>>>>>> auctions that include the > shipping > >>> price, > >>>>>>> there are plenty that include > the > >>> shipping in the > >>>>> auction > >>>>>>> total, so you > >>>>>>> don't have to pay extra on top > of the > >>> fish. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Amber > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> bill 1433 wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks Harry, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I do know of Mark and the > quality > >>> of his > >>>>> products. > >>>>>>> Unfortunately for > >>>>>>>> me, quantity is the > problem. The > >>> cost would > >>>>> be out of > >>>>>>> this world. We > >>>>>>>> are not talking about six > fish > >>> here. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Bill > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry > perry > >>> <harryfisherman@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: harry perry > <harryfisherman@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > >>> Ram fry > >>>>> eating baby > >>>>>>> brine/Cost of fish. > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, > January 28, > >>> 2010, 6:32 > >>>>> PM > >>>>>>>>> I've been dealing with > Mark > >>> for > >>>>>>>>> years. Good prices > healthy > >>> fish. You > >>>>> really > >>>>>>> should check > >>>>>>>>> this out. I don't get > >>> anything out of > >>>>> this. I > >>>>>>> know you will > >>>>>>>>> be pleased like > hundreds of > >>> other folks > >>>>> you trust > >>>>>>> him. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > >>>>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Mark is also a past > president > >>> of the > >>>>>>> International Betta > >>>>>>>>> Congress and a member > of this > >>> group. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Harry > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, > bill > >>> 1433 <warrenprint@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > >>>>> > >>>>>> > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > >>>>>>> > >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > >>> Ram fry > >>>>> eating baby > >>>>>>> brine > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, > January 28, > >>> 2010, 6:03 > >>>>> PM > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hold it! Hold it! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Amber, are you trying > to say > >>> that you > >>>>> have worse > >>>>>>> luck than > >>>>>>>>> I do with Rams? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> That's not fair or > >>> possible! My > >>>>> record so far, > >>>>>>> covering > >>>>>>>>> 18 months. Out of 12 > German > >>> Rams > >>>>> purchased > >>>>>>> within this > >>>>>>>>> time period, one > lonely > >>> female left! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Ok, ok, you say, sorry > Bill > >>> but surely > >>>>> you have > >>>>>>> other fish > >>>>>>>>> left to keep you > occupied? > >>> Yes I > >>>>> do! In that > >>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>>> 29-gallon tank I have > 1 > >>> albino Cory cat > >>>>> and 1 > >>>>>>> Neon > >>>>>>>>> Tetra! Oh yes, in > my > >>> 20-gallon > >>>>> long? Zero! > >>>>>>>>> Zip! Na-Da! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>  > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I forgot to mention > Amber, > >>> that > >>>>> 55-gallon we > >>>>>>> talked > >>>>>>>>> about? Why get it, I > have > >>> nothing to > >>>>> put in > >>>>>>> it! > >>>>>>>>> Now I know what your > >>> thinking! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Bill, why don't you > just buy > >>> more > >>>>> Rams? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hey, no problem > Amber, > >>> where? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> The cost of the flight > would > >>> put the > >>>>> cost of the > >>>>>>> fish right > >>>>>>>>> out of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> my reach, even if I > were > >>> standing on a > >>>>> chair to > >>>>>>> reach it! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Take it easy and > always > >>> remember: "If > >>>>> it can go > >>>>>>>>> wrong, it will happen > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> to "Bill" > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, > Amber > >>> Berglund > >>>>>>> <arberglund@gmail. > >>>>>>>>> com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund > >>>>> <arberglund@gmail. > >>>>>>> com> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > >>> Ram fry > >>>>> eating baby > >>>>>>> brine > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. > >>> com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, > January 28, > >>> 2010, 5:41 > >>>>> PM > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Actually I'd be > interested if > >>> I didn't > >>>>> kill the > >>>>>>> poor little > >>>>>>>>> things, I'm > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> not sure what they > don't like > >>> about my > >>>>> tanks but > >>>>>>> they don't > >>>>>>>>> like them > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> long term. All the > blue Ram's > >>> I've > >>>>> bought in the > >>>>>>> past have > >>>>>>>>> slowly died > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> over time. *sniff* > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I do love them though. > The > >>> longest I've > >>>>> had one > >>>>>>> live in one > >>>>>>>>> of my tanks > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> was about 3 months. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Amber > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Lainey Alexander > wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Amber. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Now, would you > like me > >>> to send you > >>>>> fifty > >>>>>>> baby rams? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> :) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Lainey > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2010, > at 5:35 > >>> PM, Amber > >>>>> Berglund > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>    > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Wow, they're > growing > >>> fast :) > >>>>> Congrats, > >>>>>>> glad to see > >>>>>>>>> things going > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> well for > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Amber > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Lainey > Alexander > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Ray > (and > >>> Amber, thank > >>>>> you for > >>>>>>> your interest > >>>>>>>>> in the little guys) - > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have > First > >>> Bites by > >>>>> Hikari, which > >>>>>>> they do > >>>>>>>>> like. Ray, I think > you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> missed my > post > >>> explaining > >>>>> my > >>>>>>> "system" so > >>>>>>>>> far...I reposted > this > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> for you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> They seem > to be > >>> eating the > >>>>> BBS and > >>>>>>> the First > >>>>>>>>> Bites now. I use > small > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> amounts of > each > >>> at each > >>>>> feeding. You > >>>>>>> will see > >>>>>>>>> in the pictures, they > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> are huge > now:) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a > 20g > >>> that John is > >>>>> willing to > >>>>>>> donate to > >>>>>>>>> the cause. How > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> soon do > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> you think > they > >>> will need > >>>>> it? Also, > >>>>>>> can you > >>>>>>>>> please tell me how > soon > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> before > they > >>> would outgrow > >>>>> the 20g? > >>>>>>> At what age > >>>>>>>>> will the males begin > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> to fight? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I can't > figure > >>> out what to > >>>>> do with > >>>>>>> them yet > >>>>>>>>> long term... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Believe > me, the > >>> parents > >>>>> are back at > >>>>>>> it in the > >>>>>>>>> bushes with the rock > - > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not > even > >>> checking in > >>>>> there! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Here are > >>> pictures under > >>>>> "ram fry day > >>>>>>> 15", or > >>>>>>>>> in new photos: > http:// > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > groups.yahoo. > >>> com/group/ > >>>>>>> AquaticLife/ > >>>>>>>>> photos/album/ > 2049115566/ > >>> pic/list? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>> mode=tn&order= > >>>>>>> ordinal&start= > >>>>>>>>> 21&count= > 20&dir=asc > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Lainey > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, > 2010, > >>> at 2:25 > >>>>> PM, > >>>>>>> sevenspringss@ > >>>>>>>>> wmconnect. com wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi > Lainey, > >>> How are the > >>>>> Ram fry > >>>>>>> doing? > >>>>>>>>> Haven't heard much on > them > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>   >   > >>>   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> since > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Sunday, and > >>> then you > >>>>> only said > >>>>>>> they were > >>>>>>>>> eating BBS. Noticed > you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked > about > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > feeding them > >>> powdered > >>>>> food. I > >>>>>>> wasn't aware > >>>>>>>>> you were able to get > any > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> as > you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> just > >>> mentioned > >>>>> Liquifry. What > >>>>>>> kind of > >>>>>>>>> powdered food were you > able > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > get? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I > presume > >>> they must be > >>>>> growing > >>>>>>> at least a > >>>>>>>>> bit. Have you given > any > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > further > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > thought > >>> about getting > >>>>> a larger > >>>>>>> tank for > >>>>>>>>> theM? They'll soon > need > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > something > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > larger. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While > I > >>> mentioned a 20 > >>>>> Gallon > >>>>>>> Long tank, > >>>>>>>>> if you have the room > you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> might > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> want > to > >>> consider a 30 > >>>>> Gallon > >>>>>>> Breeder tank > >>>>>>>>> which is only another > 6" > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> longer > (at > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 36"L x > 18"W > >>> x 12"H), > >>>>> since this > >>>>>>> would have > >>>>>>>>> the most area (bottom > & > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > surface), > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > allowing for > >>> greater > >>>>> room to > >>>>>>> grow and > >>>>>>>>> maximum gasous > exchange. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Second > to > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that > would > >>> be a > >>>>> regular 30 > >>>>>>> Gallon Long (at > >>>>>>>>> 36" L x 12 5/8" W x > 16 > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3/4" > H) if > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> you > didn't > >>> want to go > >>>>> with the > >>>>>>> extra > >>>>>>>>> width. I would remind > you > >>> that > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> your > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> pair > could > >>> well spawn > >>>>> again > >>>>>>> within another > >>>>>>>>> week. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You > haven't > >>> indicated > >>>>> to us what > >>>>>>> you've > >>>>>>>>> decided when feeding > them > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> BBS, > or > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> if > they were > >>> all near > >>>>> a uniform > >>>>>>> size to > >>>>>>>>> accept it. Neither > have you > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> got > back > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to us > >>> concerning how > >>>>> many > >>>>>>> feedings per day > >>>>>>>>> you've decided on. > How > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> about > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> your > methods > >>> for > >>>>> cleaning off > >>>>>>> the bottom > >>>>>>>>> debris? Please fill us > in > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on > your > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > decisions > >>> and how > >>>>> things are > >>>>>>> going. Ray > >>>>>>>>> </HTML> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>   >   > >>>   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [Non-text > >>> portions of this > >>>>> message > >>>>>>> have been > >>>>>>>>> removed] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------ > >>> --------- > >>>>> --------- > >>>>>>> ------ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Please, > DELETE > >>> this line > >>>>> and > >>>>>>> EVERYTHING below > >>>>>>>>> it when replying, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thank You. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>> , > >>>>>>> .·´¯`·..>< > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ((((º> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, > when you > >>> REPLY to > >>>>> a post, > >>>>>>> DELETE all > >>>>>>>>> TEXT that is NOT > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> important to > the > >>> reply & > >>>>> if CHANGING > >>>>>>> the TOPIC > >>>>>>>>> of the original > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> message MODIFY > the > >>> SUBJECT > >>>>> LINE -> > >>>>>>> i.e. "new > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: > old > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> subject)" > <- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>>>>>> , > >>>>> > .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> We Thank > You in > >>> Advance > >>>>> for Your > >>>>>>> HELP in this > >>>>>>>>> matter. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> If you do > not > >>> want all of > >>>>> the groups > >>>>>>> emails, > >>>>>>>>> instead of > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, > you > >>> can change > >>>>> your > >>>>>>> delivery option > >>>>>>>>> by clicking on > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> "Edit My > Membership" > >>> on the > >>>>> home page. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > >>> aquaticlife- > >>>>>>> digest@yahoogrou ps.com > >>>>>>>>> to receive the > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> digest, which > >>> includes up to > >>>>> 25 posts at > >>>>>>> a time in > >>>>>>>>> a single email > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email > >>> aquaticlife- > >>>>>>> nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> option where > you > >>> will still be > >>>>> able to > >>>>>>> read > >>>>>>>>> messages on the > group > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> and post > replies. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email > >>> aquaticlife- > >>>>>>> normal@yahoogrou ps.com > >>>>>>>>> to receive > individual > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > e-mails.Yahoo! > >>> Groups Links > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>     > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>    >   > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions > of > >>> this message > >>>>> have been > >>>>>>> removed] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ------------ > --------- > >>> --------- > >>>>> ------ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE > this line > >>> and > >>>>> EVERYTHING > >>>>>>> below it when > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You.. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>> , > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you > REPLY > >>> to a post, > >>>>> DELETE all > >>>>>>> TEXT that > >>>>>>>>> is NOT important to > the reply > >>> & if > >>>>> CHANGING > >>>>>>> the TOPIC of > >>>>>>>>> the original message > MODIFY > >>> the SUBJECT > >>>>> LINE > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > >>> subject)" <- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>>>>>> , > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > Advance > >>> for Your > >>>>> HELP in > >>>>>>> this matter. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> If you do not want > all > >>> of the > >>>>> groups emails, > >>>>>>> instead > >>>>>>>>> of unsubscribing, you > can > >>> change your > >>>>> delivery > >>>>>>> option by > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > >>> Membership" on the > >>>>> home > >>>>>>> page. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > aquaticlife- > >>>>> digest@yahoogrou > >>>>>>> ps.com to > >>>>>>>>> receive the digest, > which > >>> includes up > >>>>> to 25 posts > >>>>>>> at a time > >>>>>>>>> in a single email > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Or email > aquaticlife- > >>>>> nomail@yahoogrou > >>>>>>> ps.com for the > >>>>>>>>> No E-Mail option where > you > >>> will still > >>>>> be able to > >>>>>>> read > >>>>>>>>> messages on the group > and > >>> post > >>>>> replies. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Or email > aquaticlife- > >>>>> normal@yahoogrou > >>>>>>> ps.com to > >>>>>>>>> receive individual > >>> e-mails..Yahoo! > >>>>> Groups Links > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>    > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ------------ > --------- > >>> --------- > >>>>> ------ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this > line and > >>> EVERYTHING > >>>>> below it > >>>>>>> when > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>> , > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY > to a > >>> post, > >>>>> DELETE all TEXT > >>>>>>> that is > >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the > reply > >>> & if > >>>>> CHANGING the > >>>>>>> TOPIC of > >>>>>>>>> the original message > MODIFY > >>> the SUBJECT > >>>>> LINE > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > >>> subject)" <- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>>>>>> , > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > Advance for > >>> Your HELP > >>>>> in this > >>>>>>> matter. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all > of the > >>> groups > >>>>> emails, > >>>>>>> instead of > >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can > change > >>> your > >>>>> delivery > >>>>>>> option by > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > >>> Membership" on the > >>>>> home > >>>>>>> page. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > aquaticlife- > >>> digest@yahoogrou > >>>>> ps.com to > >>>>>>> receive > >>>>>>>>> the digest, which > includes up > >>> to 25 > >>>>> posts at a > >>>>>>> time in a > >>>>>>>>> single email > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > >>> nomail@yahoogrou > >>>>> ps.com for > >>>>>>> the No > >>>>>>>>> E-Mail option where > you will > >>> still be > >>>>> able to > >>>>>>> read messages > >>>>>>>>> on the group and post > >>> replies. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > >>> normal@yahoogrou > >>>>> ps.com to > >>>>>>> receive > >>>>>>>>> individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > >>> Groups Links > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of > this > >>> message have > >>>>> been > >>>>>>> removed] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this > line and > >>> EVERYTHING > >>>>> below it > >>>>>>> when > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > >>>>>>> > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY > to a > >>> post, > >>>>> DELETE all TEXT > >>>>>>> that is > >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the > reply > >>> & if > >>>>> CHANGING the > >>>>>>> TOPIC of > >>>>>>>>> the original message > MODIFY > >>> the SUBJECT > >>>>> LINE > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > >>> subject)" <- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>>>>>>>> , > >>>>> > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > Advance for > >>> Your HELP > >>>>> in this > >>>>>>> matter. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all > of the > >>> groups > >>>>> emails, > >>>>>>> instead of > >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can > change > >>> your > >>>>> delivery > >>>>>>> option by > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > >>> Membership" on the > >>>>> home > >>>>>>> page. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> to receive the digest, > which > >>> includes > >>>>> up to 25 > >>>>>>> posts at a > >>>>>>>>> time in a single > email > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail > option > >>> where you will > >>>>> still be > >>>>>>> able to > >>>>>>>>> read messages on the > group > >>> and post > >>>>> replies. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>>>>>> to receive individual > >>> e-mails.Yahoo! 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> Groups > >>> Links > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below > it when > >>> replying, Thank You. > >>> > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that is > >>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC of > >>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > >>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >>> > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>> , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > >>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > >>> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > >>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > >>> time in a single email > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > >>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still > be able to > >>> read messages on the group and post replies. > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > >>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46347	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Hmmm. I don't think my Rams would be able to adjust too easily to your water, Bill:( My pH is 6.4 but my GH is only 5 and my KH is only 1!!! This is all due to the RO and RO Right, but actually, this is the preferred water param for most of my plants. I'm using compact flouros at 3 to 4.4 WPG for 8 hours per day on the plants, but the most important thing for them seems to be the injected CO2. I don't think you can do most of the difficult plants without the injected CO2. But the easier ones would do fine with even 2WPG and no CO2. I do use fertilizers in the water column and as root tabs. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:33 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > Please forgive here, as I'm going to answer you're 12:44 posting > and you're latest of 12:50 together. > > I am not an expert on Rams either but I have learned some valuable > things about them. I did not clear up the water issues, I learned > about them. My well has a pH of 5.5 to 5.8 all the time. It also > has absolutely no hardness readings at all! No GH and No KH. > These are perfect conditions for Rams but every time I tried to get > Rams they would die, usually within 2 weeks. The reason was the > tremendous change in water parameters. I had already checked and > double-checked my water-baseline but in my enthusiasm to get the > Rams, I neglected to check THEIR water parameters in the stores > where I was buying them, and most importantly, to do this BEFORE I > attempted to acclimate them or even mix their waters together. > What happened was that the pH was too great an adjustment for them > or any other fish for that matter. With this in mind, I > deliberately changed the parameters to a more neutral tank with a > GH of 85 and a KH of 20. This is accomplished through the use of > crushed coral. > > The second problem is size, it is not a good idea to place Rams or > any other Cichlid of different sizes together in the same tank. > The smaller fish gets stressed from the larger ones chasing them > away from the food, eventually they give up all together go to the > darkest place in the tank they can find and die. Again, a lesson I > learned the hard way. Maybe in some cases with larger tanks it > could be done but I would not recommend it. This ties-in directly > to your second message about plants. > > Yes it's true I have no live plants (perhaps sometime later when > you have more time, you can give us some idea of your lighting > arrangements you must be doing this along time to have such > beautifully planted tanks) but do have an abundance of plastic ones > as well as some very nice large clay caves from Doctors which I > just purchased. Rams, like the Discus, are timed by nature and > would prefer a tank with a lot of hiding places. But more > important than that is change. Rams do not like change of any > kind. They don't like their tank being re-arranged or too many > things being moved in it once they are settled into it, and worse, > they themselves don't like being moved either. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 12:50 PM > > Bill - > > > > I know practically nothing about Rams, but so far, the one > > thing I > > feel pretty sure about is that they prefer a planted type > > tank. My > > reason is that mine spend most of their time in and among > > the bushes, > > and they get super stressed when I chop the plants down or > > remove a > > bunch of plants. When I say stressed I mean anxious > > swimming > > patterns, darting and losing their color...for whatever > > that's worth! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > So, am I understanding you that you have cleared up > > your water issues > > > and are ready for Rams? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:35 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Lainey, > > >> > > >> With me it's not a matter of "trying again" it's a > > "since" type of > > >> thing. > > >> A bit of history on Bill? Although I have > > been out of the hobby > > >> for some time, I would probably be considered by > > many as old > > >> school, going back to the 70's. At that time > > I was raising and > > >> breeding Discus and did so for almost 10 years, so > > it's not as > > >> though I'm really new to all of this. I'm > > just new to some of the > > >> products and technology that has come on the seen > > since that time. > > >> > > >> My tank setup was not as much an issue but > > complications with my > > >> well water were, not near as bad as yours but a > > large pH difference > > >> from 7.0. In addition I have spent the last > > 18 months on the > > >> gathering and studying of the Mikrogeophagus > > Ramirezi and meeting > > >> people who share their experience of keeping these > > fish. Like so > > >> many things it has been a difficult road to > > travel, in that today > > >> with the Internet and so many articles and > > so-called facts and > > >> "experts", it took quite a bit of time in > > separating these so > > >> called "facts" from the reality of > > things. Most of my study and > > >> concussions thereof are all now founded on facts > > and experience > > >> rather than the here-say information and > > speculation of others. > > >> > > >> On the matter of shipping or helping out others, > > you certainly have > > >> my ear on that point and I hope you will keep me > > in mind. But if > > >> you would rather not I certainly understand. > > Even so, "being a new > > >> Mom" is never easy and sometimes just the parting > > with new fry is a > > >> problem. I know in my early beginnings, it > > was like that for me. > > >> But be advised, just as Ray told you, you will > > have more and soon, > > >> if not already!(maybe check their rock). > > Rams are quite prolific > > >> once they have settled down to parenting. > > And I do believe the > > >> Rams have selected you to be their "spokes-person" > > and have > > >> definitely settled down to parenting so sooner or > > later you're > > >> going to have to make some choices. > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > > brine/Cost of fish. > > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>> Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:11 AM > > >>> Hey Bill - > > >>> > > >>> Ya, I haven't been sure if you really want to > > try again > > >>> with Rams or > > >>> not...also, it was my understanding that the > > Rams don't do > > >>> well > > >>> (die?) in your setup? I thought maybe it's > > something about > > >>> your > > >>> water, not sure. > > >>> > > >>> I am still figuring out what to do about my > > babies, but > > >>> will > > >>> certainly be thinking about RAOKs as my > > primary > > >>> distribution method, > > >>> should I get that far. > > >>> > > >>> Also, I don't think I want to ship, though I'm > > sure someone > > >>> could > > >>> help me through that process, I just cringe > > when I think > > >>> about it... > > >>> > > >>> Lainey > > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > >>> > > >>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:08 AM, bill 1433 > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Hi Amber, > > >>>> > > >>>> Up to this point, she has made no such > > offer in my > > >>> direction. I'm > > >>>> not sure > > >>>> if she thought I was kidding about her > > Rams before or > > >>> not, when I > > >>>> said I was very much interested in > > them. Not > > >>> knowing me as long as > > >>>> you or the rest of the group do, she may > > have just > > >>> passed it off as > > >>>> a joke or missed the post entirely. > > We both know > > >>> that is > > >>>> incorrect, as I do often joke and kid > > around here, and > > >>> do have a > > >>>> sense of humor, but I never joke about > > Rams! > > >>>> > > >>>> Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping > > fish > > >>> requires a lot of > > >>>> prep work; obtaining a suitable container > > and in order > > >>> to achieve > > >>>> any success at all, oxygen for the bag > > itself not > > >>> air. She may > > >>>> just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a > > local fish > > >>> club, she > > >>>> hasn't really said what she plans to do > > with them. If > > >>> she keeps > > >>>> giving those parents those bloodworms, > > she's going to > > >>> have another > > >>>> spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this > > morning. > > >>>> > > >>>> I'm asking your forgiveness here > > Amber. This > > >>> mail should have > > >>>> arrived last night as we were talking back > > and > > >>> fourth? For some > > >>>> Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this > > mornings > > >>> mail? > > >>>> What can you do? Sorry for the delay > > in > > >>> answering you. > > >>>> > > >>>> Bill > > >>>> > > >>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > > eating baby > > >>> brine/Cost of fish. > > >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, > > 10:35 PM > > >>>>> Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal > > >>>>> on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Amber > > >>>>> > > >>>>> bill 1433 wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi Amber, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Sorry just sent you a mail before > > I saw > > >>> this. First, > > >>>>> Aquabid does not > > >>>>>> have enough. Remember from my > > message just > > >>> sent? > > >>>>> Re-read what I sent > > >>>>>> Harry. It's not just the quality > > here but > > >>> most > > >>>>> definitely the > > >>>>>> quantity. You are buying these > > fish, however > > >>> great > > >>>>> they are, sight > > >>>>>> un-seen. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> You can't go back again next month > > and order > > >>> more > > >>>>> unless the seller > > >>>>>> will swear, that they are from the > > same > > >>> spawn. Size > > >>>>> and timing are > > >>>>>> everything here. Unless of course > > if you > > >>> just say no > > >>>>> to single fish > > >>>>>> all together and only deal with > > pairs, which > > >>> can be > > >>>>> dangerous and very > > >>>>>> expensive. I suspect this is where > > much of > > >>> the > > >>>>> Internet Lore on Rams > > >>>>>> comes from and why people have > > such a hard > > >>> time with > > >>>>> them. But then if > > >>>>>> they were really easy, what would > > we learn > > >>> and what > > >>>>> fun would we have > > >>>>>> learning it? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram > > fry > > >>> eating baby > > >>>>> brine/Cost of fish. > > >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, > > 2010, 9:52 > > >>> PM > > >>>>>>> Check aquabid for sellers > > with > > >>>>>>> auctions that include the > > shipping > > >>> price, > > >>>>>>> there are plenty that include > > the > > >>> shipping in the > > >>>>> auction > > >>>>>>> total, so you > > >>>>>>> don't have to pay extra on top > > of the > > >>> fish. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Amber > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> bill 1433 wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Thanks Harry, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I do know of Mark and the > > quality > > >>> of his > > >>>>> products. > > >>>>>>> Unfortunately for > > >>>>>>>> me, quantity is the > > problem. The > > >>> cost would > > >>>>> be out of > > >>>>>>> this world. We > > >>>>>>>> are not talking about six > > fish > > >>> here. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Bill > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry > > perry > > >>> <harryfisherman@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> From: harry perry > > <harryfisherman@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > >>> Ram fry > > >>>>> eating baby > > >>>>>>> brine/Cost of fish. > > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, > > January 28, > > >>> 2010, 6:32 > > >>>>> PM > > >>>>>>>>> I've been dealing with > > Mark > > >>> for > > >>>>>>>>> years. Good prices > > healthy > > >>> fish. You > > >>>>> really > > >>>>>>> should check > > >>>>>>>>> this out. I don't get > > >>> anything out of > > >>>>> this. I > > >>>>>>> know you will > > >>>>>>>>> be pleased like > > hundreds of > > >>> other folks > > >>>>> you trust > > >>>>>>> him. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > >>>>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Mark is also a past > > president > > >>> of the > > >>>>>>> International Betta > > >>>>>>>>> Congress and a member > > of this > > >>> group. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Harry > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, > > bill > > >>> 1433 <warrenprint@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > >>> Ram fry > > >>>>> eating baby > > >>>>>>> brine > > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, > > January 28, > > >>> 2010, 6:03 > > >>>>> PM > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Hold it!� Hold it! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Amber, are you trying > > to say > > >>> that you > > >>>>> have worse > > >>>>>>> luck than > > >>>>>>>>> I do with Rams? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> That's not fair or > > >>> possible!� My > > >>>>> record so far, > > >>>>>>> covering > > >>>>>>>>> 18 months.� Out of 12 > > German > > >>> Rams > > >>>>> purchased > > >>>>>>> within this > > >>>>>>>>> time period, one > > lonely > > >>> female left!� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Ok, ok, you say, sorry > > Bill > > >>> but surely > > >>>>> you have > > >>>>>>> other fish > > >>>>>>>>> left to keep you > > occupied?� > > >>> Yes I > > >>>>> do!� In that > > >>>>>>> same > > >>>>>>>>> 29-gallon tank I have > > 1 > > >>> albino Cory cat > > >>>>> and 1 > > >>>>>>> Neon > > >>>>>>>>> Tetra!� Oh yes, in > > my > > >>> 20-gallon > > >>>>> long?� Zero!� > > >>>>>>>>> Zip!� Na-Da! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I forgot to mention > > Amber, > > >>> that > > >>>>> 55-gallon we > > >>>>>>> talked > > >>>>>>>>> about?� Why get it, I > > have > > >>> nothing to > > >>>>> put in > > >>>>>>> it! > > >>>>>>>>> Now I know what your > > >>> thinking! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Bill, why don't you > > just buy > > >>> more > > >>>>> Rams? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Hey, no problem > > Amber, > > >>> where? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> The cost of the flight > > would > > >>> put the > > >>>>> cost of the > > >>>>>>> fish right > > >>>>>>>>> out of > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> my reach, even if I > > were > > >>> standing on a > > >>>>> chair to > > >>>>>>> reach it! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Take it easy and > > always > > >>> remember: "If > > >>>>> it can go > > >>>>>>>>> wrong, it will happen > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> to "Bill" > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, > > Amber > > >>> Berglund > > >>>>>>> <arberglund@gmail. > > >>>>>>>>> com> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund > > >>>>> <arberglund@gmail. > > >>>>>>> com> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > >>> Ram fry > > >>>>> eating baby > > >>>>>>> brine > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. > > >>> com > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, > > January 28, > > >>> 2010, 5:41 > > >>>>> PM > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Actually I'd be > > interested if > > >>> I didn't > > >>>>> kill the > > >>>>>>> poor little > > >>>>>>>>> things, I'm > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> not sure what they > > don't like > > >>> about my > > >>>>> tanks but > > >>>>>>> they don't > > >>>>>>>>> like them > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> long term. All the > > blue Ram's > > >>> I've > > >>>>> bought in the > > >>>>>>> past have > > >>>>>>>>> slowly died > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> over time. *sniff* > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I do love them though. > > The > > >>> longest I've > > >>>>> had one > > >>>>>>> live in one > > >>>>>>>>> of my tanks > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> was about 3 months. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Amber > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Lainey Alexander > > wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Amber. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Now, would you > > like me > > >>> to send you > > >>>>> fifty > > >>>>>>> baby rams? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> :) > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Lainey > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2010, > > at 5:35 > > >>> PM, Amber > > >>>>> Berglund > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Wow, they're > > growing > > >>> fast :) > > >>>>> Congrats, > > >>>>>>> glad to see > > >>>>>>>>> things going� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> well for > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> you. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Amber > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lainey > > Alexander > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Ray > > (and > > >>> Amber, thank > > >>>>> you for > > >>>>>>> your interest > > >>>>>>>>> in the little guys) - > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have > > First > > >>> Bites by > > >>>>> Hikari, which > > >>>>>>> they do > > >>>>>>>>> like. Ray, I think > > you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> missed my > > post > > >>> explaining > > >>>>> my > > >>>>>>> "system" so > > >>>>>>>>> far...I reposted > > this� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> for you. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> They seem > > to be > > >>> eating the > > >>>>> BBS and > > >>>>>>> the First > > >>>>>>>>> Bites now. I use > > small > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> amounts of > > each > > >>> at each > > >>>>> feeding. You > > >>>>>>> will see > > >>>>>>>>> in the pictures, they > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> are huge > > now:) > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a > > 20g > > >>> that John is > > >>>>> willing to > > >>>>>>> donate to > > >>>>>>>>> the cause. How� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> soon do > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> you think > > they > > >>> will need > > >>>>> it? Also, > > >>>>>>> can you > > >>>>>>>>> please tell me how > > soon > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> before > > they > > >>> would outgrow > > >>>>> the 20g? > > >>>>>>> At what age > > >>>>>>>>> will the males begin > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to fight? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I can't > > figure > > >>> out what to > > >>>>> do with > > >>>>>>> them yet > > >>>>>>>>> long term... > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Believe > > me, the > > >>> parents > > >>>>> are back at > > >>>>>>> it in the > > >>>>>>>>> bushes with the rock > > - > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not > > even > > >>> checking in > > >>>>> there! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Here are > > >>> pictures under > > >>>>> "ram fry day > > >>>>>>> 15", or > > >>>>>>>>> in new photos: > > http:// > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > groups.yahoo. > > >>> com/group/ > > >>>>>>> AquaticLife/ > > >>>>>>>>> photos/album/ > > 2049115566/ > > >>> pic/list? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> mode=tn&order= > > >>>>>>> ordinal&start= > > >>>>>>>>> 21&count= > > 20&dir=asc > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Lainey > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, > > 2010, > > >>> at 2:25 > > >>>>> PM, > > >>>>>>> sevenspringss@ > > >>>>>>>>> wmconnect. com wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi > > Lainey, > > >>> How are the > > >>>>> Ram fry > > >>>>>>> doing? > > >>>>>>>>> Haven't heard much on > > them� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> � � > > � � > > >>> � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> since > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Sunday, and > > >>> then you > > >>>>> only said > > >>>>>>> they were > > >>>>>>>>> eating BBS. Noticed > > you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked > > about > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > feeding them > > >>> powdered > > >>>>> food. I > > >>>>>>> wasn't aware > > >>>>>>>>> you were able to get > > any > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> as > > you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> just > > >>> mentioned > > >>>>> Liquifry. What > > >>>>>>> kind of > > >>>>>>>>> powdered food were you > > able > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > get? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I > > presume > > >>> they must be > > >>>>> growing > > >>>>>>> at least a > > >>>>>>>>> bit. Have you given > > any > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > further > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > thought > > >>> about getting > > >>>>> a larger > > >>>>>>> tank for > > >>>>>>>>> theM? They'll soon > > need > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > something > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > larger. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While > > I > > >>> mentioned a 20 > > >>>>> Gallon > > >>>>>>> Long tank, > > >>>>>>>>> if you have the room > > you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> might > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> want > > to > > >>> consider a 30 > > >>>>> Gallon > > >>>>>>> Breeder tank > > >>>>>>>>> which is only another > > 6" > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> longer > > (at > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 36"L x > > 18"W > > >>> x 12"H), > > >>>>> since this > > >>>>>>> would have > > >>>>>>>>> the most area (bottom > > & > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > surface), > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > allowing for > > >>> greater > > >>>>> room to > > >>>>>>> grow and > > >>>>>>>>> maximum gasous > > exchange. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Second > > to > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that > > would > > >>> be a > > >>>>> regular 30 > > >>>>>>> Gallon Long (at > > >>>>>>>>> 36" L x 12 5/8" W x > > 16 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3/4" > > H) if > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> you > > didn't > > >>> want to go > > >>>>> with the > > >>>>>>> extra > > >>>>>>>>> width. I would remind > > you > > >>> that > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> your > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> pair > > could > > >>> well spawn > > >>>>> again > > >>>>>>> within another > > >>>>>>>>> week. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You > > haven't > > >>> indicated > > >>>>> to us what > > >>>>>>> you've > > >>>>>>>>> decided when feeding > > them > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> BBS, > > or > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> if > > they were > > >>> all near > > >>>>> a uniform > > >>>>>>> size to > > >>>>>>>>> accept it. Neither > > have you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> got > > back > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to us > > >>> concerning how > > >>>>> many > > >>>>>>> feedings per day > > >>>>>>>>> you've decided on. > > How > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> about > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> your > > methods > > >>> for > > >>>>> cleaning off > > >>>>>>> the bottom > > >>>>>>>>> debris? Please fill us > > in > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on > > your > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > decisions > > >>> and how > > >>>>> things are > > >>>>>>> going. Ray > > >>>>>>>>> </HTML> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> � � > > � � > > >>> � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [Non-text > > >>> portions of this > > >>>>> message > > >>>>>>> have been > > >>>>>>>>> removed] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > ------------ > > >>> --------- > > >>>>> --------- > > >>>>>>> ------ > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Please, > > DELETE > > >>> this line > > >>>>> and > > >>>>>>> EVERYTHING below > > >>>>>>>>> it when replying,� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thank You. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > > >>>>>>>>> > > ��.������`��.��. > > >>> , > > >>>>>>> .������`��..>< > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> ((((��> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, > > when you > > >>> REPLY to > > >>>>> a post, > > >>>>>>> DELETE all > > >>>>>>>>> TEXT that is NOT� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> important to > > the > > >>> reply & > > >>>>> if CHANGING > > >>>>>>> the TOPIC > > >>>>>>>>> of the original� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> message MODIFY > > the > > >>> SUBJECT > > >>>>> LINE -> > > >>>>>>> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: > > old� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> subject)" > > <- > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > > >>>>>>>>> , > > >>>>> > > .������`��..<��((((><�� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> ����`��.����. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> We Thank > > You in > > >>> Advance > > >>>>> for Your > > >>>>>>> HELP in this > > >>>>>>>>> matter. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> If you do > > not > > >>> want all of > > >>>>> the groups > > >>>>>>> emails, > > >>>>>>>>> instead of� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, > > you > > >>> can change > > >>>>> your > > >>>>>>> delivery option > > >>>>>>>>> by clicking on� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> "Edit My > > Membership" > > >>> on the > > >>>>> home page. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > > >>> aquaticlife- > > >>>>>>> digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > >>>>>>>>> to receive the� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> digest, which > > >>> includes up to > > >>>>> 25 posts at > > >>>>>>> a time in > > >>>>>>>>> a single email > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email > > >>> aquaticlife- > > >>>>>>> nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> option where > > you > > >>> will still be > > >>>>> able to > > >>>>>>> read > > >>>>>>>>> messages on the > > group� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> and post > > replies. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email > > >>> aquaticlife- > > >>>>>>> normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > >>>>>>>>> to receive > > individual� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > >>> Groups Links > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> � � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> � � � > > � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions > > of > > >>> this message > > >>>>> have been > > >>>>>>> removed] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> ------------ > > --------- > > >>> --------- > > >>>>> ------ > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE > > this line > > >>> and > > >>>>> EVERYTHING > > >>>>>>> below it when > > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You.. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > > >>>>>>>>> > > ��.������`��.��. > > >>> , > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > .������`��..><((((��> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you > > REPLY > > >>> to a post, > > >>>>> DELETE all > > >>>>>>> TEXT that > > >>>>>>>>> is NOT important to > > the reply > > >>> & if > > >>>>> CHANGING > > >>>>>>> the TOPIC of > > >>>>>>>>> the original message > > MODIFY > > >>> the SUBJECT > > >>>>> LINE > > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > > >>> subject)" <- > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > > >>>>>>>>> , > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > > Advance > > >>> for Your > > >>>>> HELP in > > >>>>>>> this matter. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> If you do not want > > all > > >>> of the > > >>>>> groups emails, > > >>>>>>> instead > > >>>>>>>>> of unsubscribing, you > > can > > >>> change your > > >>>>> delivery > > >>>>>>> option by > > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > > >>> Membership" on the > > >>>>> home > > >>>>>>> page.� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > > aquaticlife- > > >>>>> digest@yahoogrou > > >>>>>>> ps.com to > > >>>>>>>>> receive the digest, > > which > > >>> includes up > > >>>>> to 25 posts > > >>>>>>> at a time > > >>>>>>>>> in a single email > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Or email > > aquaticlife- > > >>>>> nomail@yahoogrou > > >>>>>>> ps.com for the > > >>>>>>>>> No E-Mail option where > > you > > >>> will still > > >>>>> be able to > > >>>>>>> read > > >>>>>>>>> messages on the group > > and > > >>> post > > >>>>> replies. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Or email > > aquaticlife- > > >>>>> normal@yahoogrou > > >>>>>>> ps.com to > > >>>>>>>>> receive individual > > >>> e-mails..Yahoo! > > >>>>> Groups Links > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> � � � > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> ------------ > > --------- > > >>> --------- > > >>>>> ------ > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this > > line and > > >>> EVERYTHING > > >>>>> below it > > >>>>>>> when > > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ������`��.����.><((((��>.������`��.����.������`��.��><((((��> > > >>>>>>>>> > > ��.������`��.��. > > >>> , > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > .������`��..><((((��> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY > > to a > > >>> post, > > >>>>> DELETE all TEXT > > >>>>>>> that is > > >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the > > reply > > >>> & if > > >>>>> CHANGING the > > >>>>>>> TOPIC of > > >>>>>>>>> the original message > > MODIFY > > >>> the SUBJECT > > >>>>> LINE > > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > > >>> subject)" <- > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <��((((><.������`��.����.������`��.��<��((((><��.������`��.��. > > >>>>>>>>> , > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > .������`��..<��((((><������`��.����. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > > Advance for > > >>> Your HELP > > >>>>> in this > > >>>>>>> matter. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all > > of the > > >>> groups > > >>>>> emails, > > >>>>>>> instead of > > >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can > > change > > >>> your > > >>>>> delivery > > >>>>>>> option by > > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > > >>> Membership" on the > > >>>>> home > > >>>>>>> page.� > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > > aquaticlife- > > >>> digest@yahoogrou > > >>>>> ps.com to > > >>>>>>> receive > > >>>>>>>>> the digest, which > > includes up > > >>> to 25 > > >>>>> posts at a > > >>>>>>> time in a > > >>>>>>>>> single email > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > > >>> nomail@yahoogrou > > >>>>> ps.com for > > >>>>>>> the No > > >>>>>>>>> E-Mail option where > > you will > > >>> still be > > >>>>> able to > > >>>>>>> read messages > > >>>>>>>>> on the group and post > > >>> replies. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > > >>> normal@yahoogrou > > >>>>> ps.com to > > >>>>>>> receive > > >>>>>>>>> individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > >>> Groups Links > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of > > this > > >>> message have > > >>>>> been > > >>>>>>> removed] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>> ------------------------------------ > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this > > line and > > >>> EVERYTHING > > >>>>> below it > > >>>>>>> when > > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > >>>>>>>>> �.���`�.�. , > > >>>>>>> > > .���`�..><((((�> > > >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY > > to a > > >>> post, > > >>>>> DELETE all TEXT > > >>>>>>> that is > > >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the > > reply > > >>> & if > > >>>>> CHANGING the > > >>>>>>> TOPIC of > > >>>>>>>>> the original message > > MODIFY > > >>> the SUBJECT > > >>>>> LINE > > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > > >>> subject)" <- > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > >>>>>>>>> , > > >>>>> > > .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > > Advance for > > >>> Your HELP > > >>>>> in this > > >>>>>>> matter. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all > > of the > > >>> groups > > >>>>> emails, > > >>>>>>> instead of > > >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can > > change > > >>> your > > >>>>> delivery > > >>>>>>> option by > > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > > >>> Membership" on the > > >>>>> home > > >>>>>>> page. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> to receive the digest, > > which > > >>> includes > > >>>>> up to 25 > > >>>>>>> posts at a > > >>>>>>>>> time in a single > > email > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail > > option > > >>> where you will > > >>>>> still be > > >>>>>>> able to > > >>>>>>>>> read messages on the > > group > > >>> and post > > >>>>> replies. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> to receive individual > > >>> e-mails.Yahoo! > > >>>>> Groups > > >>>>>>> Links > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > ------------------------------------ > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > >>> below it > > >>>>> when > > >>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > >>>>>>> �.���`�.�. , > > >>>>> .���`�..><((((�> > > >>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, > > >>> DELETE all TEXT > > >>>>> that is > > >>>>>>> NOT important to the reply > > & if > > >>> CHANGING the > > >>>>> TOPIC of > > >>>>>>> the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > >>> LINE > > >>>>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>> subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > >>>>>>> , > > >>> .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > >>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance for > > Your HELP > > >>> in this > > >>>>> matter. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> If you do not want all of the > > groups > > >>> emails, > > >>>>> instead of > > >>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > >>> delivery > > >>>>> option by > > >>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > >>> home > > >>>>> page. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> to receive the digest, which > > includes > > >>> up to 25 > > >>>>> posts at a > > >>>>>>> time in a single email > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> for the No E-Mail option where > > you will > > >>> still be > > >>>>> able to > > >>>>>>> read messages on the group and > > post > > >>> replies. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > >>> Groups > > >>>>> Links > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ------------------------------------ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING below it > > >>> when > > >>>>> replying, Thank You. > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > >>>>> �.���`�.�. , > > >>> .���`�..><((((�> > > >>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > >>> that is > > >>>>> NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > >>> TOPIC of > > >>>>> the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE > > >>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > >>>>> , > > .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > >>>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > >>> matter. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > >>> instead of > > >>>>> unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > >>> option by > > >>>>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > > the home > > >>> page. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > >>> posts at a > > >>>>> time in a single email > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> for the No E-Mail option where you > > will still be > > >>> able to > > >>>>> read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > >>> Links > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ------------------------------------ > > >>> > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below > > it when > > >>> replying, Thank You. > > >>> > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > >>> �.���`�.�. , > > .���`�..><((((�> > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > > TEXT that is > > >>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > > the TOPIC of > > >>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > >>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > >>> > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > >>> , > > .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > >>> > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > >>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > >>> > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > >>> time in a single email > > >>> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still > > be able to > > >>> read messages on the group and post replies. > > >>> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > > > ((((�> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old > > > subject)" <- > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><� > > > ��`�.��. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail > > > option where you will still be able to read messages > > on the group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e- > > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46348	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

I'm not sure about that either, the numbers are close but that's your call.  In any event I would use all of your water first and only add a small amount of my own to fill a smaller tank only until they settle down.  It's the "change" part that is difficult but anything done slowly is fine, slowly is the key with Rams.   Bill --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 2:36 PM Hmmm. I don't think my Rams would be able to adjust too easily to your  water, Bill:( My pH is 6.4 but my GH is only 5 and my KH is only 1!!! This is all due to the RO and RO Right, but actually, this is the  preferred water param for most of my plants. I'm using compact  flouros at 3 to 4.4 WPG for 8 hours per day on the plants, but the  most important thing for them seems to be the injected CO2. I don't  think you can do most of the difficult plants without the injected  CO2. But the easier ones would do fine with even 2WPG and no CO2. I do use fertilizers in the water column and as root tabs. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:33 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > Please forgive here, as I'm going to answer you're 12:44 posting  > and you're latest of 12:50 together. > > I am not an expert on Rams either but I have learned some valuable  > things about them.  I did not clear up the water issues, I learned  > about them.  My well has a pH of 5.5 to 5.8 all the time.  It also  > has absolutely no hardness readings at all!  No GH and No KH.    > These are perfect conditions for Rams but every time I tried to get  > Rams they would die, usually within 2 weeks.  The reason was the  > tremendous change in water parameters.  I had already checked and  > double-checked my water-baseline but in my enthusiasm to get the  > Rams, I neglected to check THEIR water parameters in the stores  > where I was buying them, and most importantly, to do this BEFORE I  > attempted to acclimate them or even mix their waters together. > What happened was that the pH was too great an adjustment for them  > or any other fish for that matter.  With this in mind, I  > deliberately changed the parameters to a more neutral tank with a  > GH of 85 and a KH of 20.  This is accomplished through the use of  > crushed coral. > > The second problem is size, it is not a good idea to place Rams or  > any other Cichlid of different sizes together in the same tank.    > The smaller fish gets stressed from the larger ones chasing them  > away from the food, eventually they give up all together go to the  > darkest place in the tank they can find and die.  Again, a lesson I  > learned the hard way.  Maybe in some cases with larger tanks it  > could be done but I would not recommend it. This ties-in directly  > to your second message about plants. > > Yes it's true I have no live plants (perhaps sometime later when  > you have more time, you can give us some idea of your lighting  > arrangements you must be doing this along time to have such  > beautifully planted tanks) but do have an abundance of plastic ones  > as well as some very nice large clay caves from Doctors which I  > just purchased.  Rams, like the Discus, are timed by nature and  > would prefer a tank with a lot of hiding places.  But more  > important than that is change.  Rams do not like change of any  > kind.  They don't like their tank being re-arranged or too many  > things being moved in it once they are settled into it, and worse,  > they themselves  don't like being moved either. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 12:50 PM > > Bill - > > > > I know practically nothing about Rams, but so far, the one > > thing I > > feel pretty sure about is that they prefer a planted type > > tank. My > > reason is that mine spend most of their time in and among > > the bushes, > > and they get super stressed when I chop the plants down or > > remove a > > bunch of plants. When I say stressed I mean anxious > > swimming > > patterns, darting and losing their color...for whatever > > that's worth! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > So, am I understanding you that you have cleared up > > your water issues > > > and are ready for Rams? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 12:35 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Lainey, > > >> > > >> With me it's not a matter of "trying again" it's a > > "since" type of > > >> thing. > > >> A bit of history on Bill?  Although I have > > been out of the hobby > > >> for some time, I would probably be considered by > > many as old > > >> school, going back to the 70's.  At that time > > I was raising and > > >> breeding Discus and did so for almost 10 years, so > > it's not as > > >> though I'm really new to all of this.  I'm > > just new to some of the > > >> products and technology that has come on the seen > > since that time. > > >> > > >> My tank setup was not as much an issue but > > complications with my > > >> well water were, not near as bad as yours but a > > large pH difference > > >> from 7.0.  In addition I have spent the last > > 18 months on the > > >> gathering and studying of the Mikrogeophagus > > Ramirezi and meeting > > >> people who share their experience of keeping these > > fish.  Like so > > >> many things it has been a difficult road to > > travel, in that today > > >> with the Internet and so many articles and > > so-called facts and > > >> "experts", it took quite a bit of time in > > separating these so > > >> called "facts" from the reality of > > things.   Most of my study and > > >> concussions thereof are all now founded on facts > > and experience > > >> rather than the here-say information and > > speculation of others. > > >> > > >> On the matter of shipping or helping out others, > > you certainly have > > >> my ear on that point and I hope you will keep me > > in mind.  But if > > >> you would rather not I certainly understand. > > Even so, "being a new > > >> Mom" is never easy and sometimes just the parting > > with new fry is a > > >> problem.  I know in my early beginnings, it > > was like that for me. > > >> But be advised, just as Ray told you, you will > > have more and soon, > > >> if not already!(maybe check their rock). > > Rams are quite prolific > > >> once they have settled down to parenting. > > And I do believe the > > >> Rams have selected you to be their "spokes-person" > > and have > > >> definitely settled down to parenting so sooner or > > later you're > > >> going to have to make some choices. > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby > > brine/Cost of fish. > > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>> Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:11 AM > > >>> Hey Bill - > > >>> > > >>> Ya, I haven't been sure if you really want to > > try again > > >>> with Rams or > > >>> not...also, it was my understanding that the > > Rams don't do > > >>> well > > >>> (die?) in your setup? I thought maybe it's > > something about > > >>> your > > >>> water, not sure. > > >>> > > >>> I am still figuring out what to do about my > > babies, but > > >>> will > > >>> certainly be thinking about RAOKs as my > > primary > > >>> distribution method, > > >>> should I get that far. > > >>> > > >>> Also, I don't think I want to ship, though I'm > > sure someone > > >>> could > > >>> help me through that process, I just cringe > > when I think > > >>> about it... > > >>> > > >>> Lainey > > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > >>> > > >>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:08 AM, bill 1433 > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Hi Amber, > > >>>> > > >>>> Up to this point, she has made no such > > offer in my > > >>> direction.  I'm > > >>>> not sure > > >>>> if she thought I was kidding about her > > Rams before or > > >>> not, when I > > >>>> said I was very much interested in > > them.  Not > > >>> knowing me as long as > > >>>> you or the rest of the group do, she may > > have just > > >>> passed it off as > > >>>> a joke or missed the post entirely. > > We both know > > >>> that is > > >>>> incorrect, as I do often joke and kid > > around here, and > > >>> do have a > > >>>> sense of humor, but I never joke about > > Rams! > > >>>> > > >>>> Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping > > fish > > >>> requires a lot of > > >>>> prep work; obtaining a suitable container > > and in order > > >>> to achieve > > >>>> any success at all, oxygen for the bag > > itself not > > >>> air.  She may > > >>>> just be looking into her LPS or perhaps a > > local fish > > >>> club, she > > >>>> hasn't really said what she plans to do > > with them. If > > >>> she keeps > > >>>> giving those parents those bloodworms, > > she's going to > > >>> have another > > >>>> spawn shortly, as Ray mentioned this > > morning. > > >>>> > > >>>> I'm asking your forgiveness here > > Amber.  This > > >>> mail should have > > >>>> arrived last night as we were talking back > > and > > >>> fourth?  For some > > >>>> Yahoo mail reason, it showed up in this > > mornings > > >>> mail? > > >>>> What can you do?  Sorry for the delay > > in > > >>> answering you. > > >>>> > > >>>> Bill > > >>>> > > >>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry > > eating baby > > >>> brine/Cost of fish. > > >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, > > 10:35 PM > > >>>>> Maybe Lainey will cut you a good deal > > >>>>> on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Amber > > >>>>> > > >>>>> bill 1433 wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi Amber, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Sorry just sent you a mail before > > I saw > > >>> this. First, > > >>>>> Aquabid does not > > >>>>>> have enough. Remember from my > > message just > > >>> sent? > > >>>>> Re-read what I sent > > >>>>>> Harry. It's not just the quality > > here but > > >>> most > > >>>>> definitely the > > >>>>>> quantity. You are buying these > > fish, however > > >>> great > > >>>>> they are, sight > > >>>>>> un-seen. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> You can't go back again next month > > and order > > >>> more > > >>>>> unless the seller > > >>>>>> will swear, that they are from the > > same > > >>> spawn. Size > > >>>>> and timing are > > >>>>>> everything here. Unless of course > > if you > > >>> just say no > > >>>>> to single fish > > >>>>>> all together and only deal with > > pairs, which > > >>> can be > > >>>>> dangerous and very > > >>>>>> expensive. I suspect this is where > > much of > > >>> the > > >>>>> Internet Lore on Rams > > >>>>>> comes from and why people have > > such a hard > > >>> time with > > >>>>> them. But then if > > >>>>>> they were really easy, what would > > we learn > > >>> and what > > >>>>> fun would we have > > >>>>>> learning it? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber > > Berglund <arberglund@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram > > fry > > >>> eating baby > > >>>>> brine/Cost of fish. > > >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 28, > > 2010, 9:52 > > >>> PM > > >>>>>>> Check aquabid for sellers > > with > > >>>>>>> auctions that include the > > shipping > > >>> price, > > >>>>>>> there are plenty that include > > the > > >>> shipping in the > > >>>>> auction > > >>>>>>> total, so you > > >>>>>>> don't have to pay extra on top > > of the > > >>> fish. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Amber > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> bill 1433 wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Thanks Harry, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I do know of Mark and the > > quality > > >>> of his > > >>>>> products. > > >>>>>>> Unfortunately for > > >>>>>>>> me, quantity is the > > problem. The > > >>> cost would > > >>>>> be out of > > >>>>>>> this world. We > > >>>>>>>> are not talking about six > > fish > > >>> here. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Bill > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, harry > > perry > > >>> <harryfisherman@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> From: harry perry > > <harryfisherman@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > <mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com>> > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > >>> Ram fry > > >>>>> eating baby > > >>>>>>> brine/Cost of fish. > > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, > > January 28, > > >>> 2010, 6:32 > > >>>>> PM > > >>>>>>>>> I've been dealing with > > Mark > > >>> for > > >>>>>>>>> years. Good prices > > healthy > > >>> fish. You > > >>>>> really > > >>>>>>> should check > > >>>>>>>>> this out. I don't get > > >>> anything out of > > >>>>> this. I > > >>>>>>> know you will > > >>>>>>>>> be pleased like > > hundreds of > > >>> other folks > > >>>>> you trust > > >>>>>>> him. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/> > > >>>>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/ > > >>>>>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anubiasdesign/>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Mark is also a past > > president > > >>> of the > > >>>>>>> International Betta > > >>>>>>>>> Congress and a member > > of this > > >>> group. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Harry > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, > > bill > > >>> 1433 <warrenprint@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:warrenprint%40yahoo.com>> > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > >>> Ram fry > > >>>>> eating baby > > >>>>>>> brine > > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, > > January 28, > > >>> 2010, 6:03 > > >>>>> PM > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>  > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Hold it! Hold it! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>  > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Amber, are you trying > > to say > > >>> that you > > >>>>> have worse > > >>>>>>> luck than > > >>>>>>>>> I do with Rams? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>  > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> That's not fair or > > >>> possible! My > > >>>>> record so far, > > >>>>>>> covering > > >>>>>>>>> 18 months. Out of 12 > > German > > >>> Rams > > >>>>> purchased > > >>>>>>> within this > > >>>>>>>>> time period, one > > lonely > > >>> female left! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>  > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Ok, ok, you say, sorry > > Bill > > >>> but surely > > >>>>> you have > > >>>>>>> other fish > > >>>>>>>>> left to keep you > > occupied? > > >>> Yes I > > >>>>> do! In that > > >>>>>>> same > > >>>>>>>>> 29-gallon tank I have > > 1 > > >>> albino Cory cat > > >>>>> and 1 > > >>>>>>> Neon > > >>>>>>>>> Tetra! Oh yes, in > > my > > >>> 20-gallon > > >>>>> long? Zero! > > >>>>>>>>> Zip! Na-Da! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>  > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I forgot to mention > > Amber, > > >>> that > > >>>>> 55-gallon we > > >>>>>>> talked > > >>>>>>>>> about? Why get it, I > > have > > >>> nothing to > > >>>>> put in > > >>>>>>> it! > > >>>>>>>>> Now I know what your > > >>> thinking! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Bill, why don't you > > just buy > > >>> more > > >>>>> Rams? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Hey, no problem > > Amber, > > >>> where? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> The cost of the flight > > would > > >>> put the > > >>>>> cost of the > > >>>>>>> fish right > > >>>>>>>>> out of > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> my reach, even if I > > were > > >>> standing on a > > >>>>> chair to > > >>>>>>> reach it! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Take it easy and > > always > > >>> remember: "If > > >>>>> it can go > > >>>>>>>>> wrong, it will happen > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> to "Bill" > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, > > Amber > > >>> Berglund > > >>>>>>> <arberglund@gmail. > > >>>>>>>>> com> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> From: Amber Berglund > > >>>>> <arberglund@gmail. > > >>>>>>> com> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > >>> Ram fry > > >>>>> eating baby > > >>>>>>> brine > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. > > >>> com > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, > > January 28, > > >>> 2010, 5:41 > > >>>>> PM > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Actually I'd be > > interested if > > >>> I didn't > > >>>>> kill the > > >>>>>>> poor little > > >>>>>>>>> things, I'm > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> not sure what they > > don't like > > >>> about my > > >>>>> tanks but > > >>>>>>> they don't > > >>>>>>>>> like them > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> long term. All the > > blue Ram's > > >>> I've > > >>>>> bought in the > > >>>>>>> past have > > >>>>>>>>> slowly died > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> over time. *sniff* > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I do love them though. > > The > > >>> longest I've > > >>>>> had one > > >>>>>>> live in one > > >>>>>>>>> of my tanks > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> was about 3 months. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Amber > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Lainey Alexander > > wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Amber. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Now, would you > > like me > > >>> to send you > > >>>>> fifty > > >>>>>>> baby rams? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> :) > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Lainey > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2010, > > at 5:35 > > >>> PM, Amber > > >>>>> Berglund > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>    > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Wow, they're > > growing > > >>> fast :) > > >>>>> Congrats, > > >>>>>>> glad to see > > >>>>>>>>> things going > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> well for > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> you. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Amber > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Lainey > > Alexander > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Ray > > (and > > >>> Amber, thank > > >>>>> you for > > >>>>>>> your interest > > >>>>>>>>> in the little guys) - > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have > > First > > >>> Bites by > > >>>>> Hikari, which > > >>>>>>> they do > > >>>>>>>>> like. Ray, I think > > you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> missed my > > post > > >>> explaining > > >>>>> my > > >>>>>>> "system" so > > >>>>>>>>> far...I reposted > > this > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> for you. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> They seem > > to be > > >>> eating the > > >>>>> BBS and > > >>>>>>> the First > > >>>>>>>>> Bites now. I use > > small > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> amounts of > > each > > >>> at each > > >>>>> feeding. You > > >>>>>>> will see > > >>>>>>>>> in the pictures, they > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> are huge > > now:) > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a > > 20g > > >>> that John is > > >>>>> willing to > > >>>>>>> donate to > > >>>>>>>>> the cause. How > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> soon do > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> you think > > they > > >>> will need > > >>>>> it? Also, > > >>>>>>> can you > > >>>>>>>>> please tell me how > > soon > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> before > > they > > >>> would outgrow > > >>>>> the 20g? > > >>>>>>> At what age > > >>>>>>>>> will the males begin > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to fight? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I can't > > figure > > >>> out what to > > >>>>> do with > > >>>>>>> them yet > > >>>>>>>>> long term... > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Believe > > me, the > > >>> parents > > >>>>> are back at > > >>>>>>> it in the > > >>>>>>>>> bushes with the rock > > - > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not > > even > > >>> checking in > > >>>>> there! > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Here are > > >>> pictures under > > >>>>> "ram fry day > > >>>>>>> 15", or > > >>>>>>>>> in new photos: > > http:// > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > groups.yahoo. > > >>> com/group/ > > >>>>>>> AquaticLife/ > > >>>>>>>>> photos/album/ > > 2049115566/ > > >>> pic/list? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> mode=tn&order= > > >>>>>>> ordinal&start= > > >>>>>>>>> 21&count= > > 20&dir=asc > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Lainey > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, > > 2010, > > >>> at 2:25 > > >>>>> PM, > > >>>>>>> sevenspringss@ > > >>>>>>>>> wmconnect. com wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi > > Lainey, > > >>> How are the > > >>>>> Ram fry > > >>>>>>> doing? > > >>>>>>>>> Haven't heard much on > > them > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>   > >   > > >>>   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> since > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Sunday, and > > >>> then you > > >>>>> only said > > >>>>>>> they were > > >>>>>>>>> eating BBS. Noticed > > you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked > > about > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > feeding them > > >>> powdered > > >>>>> food. I > > >>>>>>> wasn't aware > > >>>>>>>>> you were able to get > > any > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> as > > you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> just > > >>> mentioned > > >>>>> Liquifry. What > > >>>>>>> kind of > > >>>>>>>>> powdered food were you > > able > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > get? > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I > > presume > > >>> they must be > > >>>>> growing > > >>>>>>> at least a > > >>>>>>>>> bit. Have you given > > any > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > further > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > thought > > >>> about getting > > >>>>> a larger > > >>>>>>> tank for > > >>>>>>>>> theM? They'll soon > > need > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > something > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > larger. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> While > > I > > >>> mentioned a 20 > > >>>>> Gallon > > >>>>>>> Long tank, > > >>>>>>>>> if you have the room > > you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> might > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> want > > to > > >>> consider a 30 > > >>>>> Gallon > > >>>>>>> Breeder tank > > >>>>>>>>> which is only another > > 6" > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> longer > > (at > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 36"L x > > 18"W > > >>> x 12"H), > > >>>>> since this > > >>>>>>> would have > > >>>>>>>>> the most area (bottom > > & > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > surface), > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > allowing for > > >>> greater > > >>>>> room to > > >>>>>>> grow and > > >>>>>>>>> maximum gasous > > exchange. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Second > > to > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that > > would > > >>> be a > > >>>>> regular 30 > > >>>>>>> Gallon Long (at > > >>>>>>>>> 36" L x 12 5/8" W x > > 16 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3/4" > > H) if > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> you > > didn't > > >>> want to go > > >>>>> with the > > >>>>>>> extra > > >>>>>>>>> width. I would remind > > you > > >>> that > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> your > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> pair > > could > > >>> well spawn > > >>>>> again > > >>>>>>> within another > > >>>>>>>>> week. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You > > haven't > > >>> indicated > > >>>>> to us what > > >>>>>>> you've > > >>>>>>>>> decided when feeding > > them > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> BBS, > > or > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> if > > they were > > >>> all near > > >>>>> a uniform > > >>>>>>> size to > > >>>>>>>>> accept it. Neither > > have you > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> got > > back > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to us > > >>> concerning how > > >>>>> many > > >>>>>>> feedings per day > > >>>>>>>>> you've decided on. > > How > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> about > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> your > > methods > > >>> for > > >>>>> cleaning off > > >>>>>>> the bottom > > >>>>>>>>> debris? Please fill us > > in > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> on > > your > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > decisions > > >>> and how > > >>>>> things are > > >>>>>>> going. Ray > > >>>>>>>>> </HTML> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>   > >   > > >>>   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [Non-text > > >>> portions of this > > >>>>> message > > >>>>>>> have been > > >>>>>>>>> removed] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > ------------ > > >>> --------- > > >>>>> --------- > > >>>>>>> ------ > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Please, > > DELETE > > >>> this line > > >>>>> and > > >>>>>>> EVERYTHING below > > >>>>>>>>> it when replying, > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thank You. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > >>>>>>>>> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>> , > > >>>>>>> .·´¯`·..>< > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> ((((º> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, > > when you > > >>> REPLY to > > >>>>> a post, > > >>>>>>> DELETE all > > >>>>>>>>> TEXT that is NOT > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> important to > > the > > >>> reply & > > >>>>> if CHANGING > > >>>>>>> the TOPIC > > >>>>>>>>> of the original > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> message MODIFY > > the > > >>> SUBJECT > > >>>>> LINE -> > > >>>>>>> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: > > old > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> subject)" > > <- > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>>>>>>>> , > > >>>>> > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> We Thank > > You in > > >>> Advance > > >>>>> for Your > > >>>>>>> HELP in this > > >>>>>>>>> matter. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> If you do > > not > > >>> want all of > > >>>>> the groups > > >>>>>>> emails, > > >>>>>>>>> instead of > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, > > you > > >>> can change > > >>>>> your > > >>>>>>> delivery option > > >>>>>>>>> by clicking on > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> "Edit My > > Membership" > > >>> on the > > >>>>> home page. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > > >>> aquaticlife- > > >>>>>>> digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > >>>>>>>>> to receive the > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> digest, which > > >>> includes up to > > >>>>> 25 posts at > > >>>>>>> a time in > > >>>>>>>>> a single email > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email > > >>> aquaticlife- > > >>>>>>> nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> option where > > you > > >>> will still be > > >>>>> able to > > >>>>>>> read > > >>>>>>>>> messages on the > > group > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> and post > > replies. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or email > > >>> aquaticlife- > > >>>>>>> normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > >>>>>>>>> to receive > > individual > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > >>> Groups Links > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>     > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>    > >   > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions > > of > > >>> this message > > >>>>> have been > > >>>>>>> removed] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> ------------ > > --------- > > >>> --------- > > >>>>> ------ > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE > > this line > > >>> and > > >>>>> EVERYTHING > > >>>>>>> below it when > > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You.. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > >>>>>>>>> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>> , > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you > > REPLY > > >>> to a post, > > >>>>> DELETE all > > >>>>>>> TEXT that > > >>>>>>>>> is NOT important to > > the reply > > >>> & if > > >>>>> CHANGING > > >>>>>>> the TOPIC of > > >>>>>>>>> the original message > > MODIFY > > >>> the SUBJECT > > >>>>> LINE > > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > > >>> subject)" <- > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>>>>>>>> , > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > > Advance > > >>> for Your > > >>>>> HELP in > > >>>>>>> this matter. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> If you do not want > > all > > >>> of the > > >>>>> groups emails, > > >>>>>>> instead > > >>>>>>>>> of unsubscribing, you > > can > > >>> change your > > >>>>> delivery > > >>>>>>> option by > > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > > >>> Membership" on the > > >>>>> home > > >>>>>>> page. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > > aquaticlife- > > >>>>> digest@yahoogrou > > >>>>>>> ps.com to > > >>>>>>>>> receive the digest, > > which > > >>> includes up > > >>>>> to 25 posts > > >>>>>>> at a time > > >>>>>>>>> in a single email > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Or email > > aquaticlife- > > >>>>> nomail@yahoogrou > > >>>>>>> ps.com for the > > >>>>>>>>> No E-Mail option where > > you > > >>> will still > > >>>>> be able to > > >>>>>>> read > > >>>>>>>>> messages on the group > > and > > >>> post > > >>>>> replies. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Or email > > aquaticlife- > > >>>>> normal@yahoogrou > > >>>>>>> ps.com to > > >>>>>>>>> receive individual > > >>> e-mails..Yahoo! > > >>>>> Groups Links > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>    > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> ------------ > > --------- > > >>> --------- > > >>>>> ------ > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this > > line and > > >>> EVERYTHING > > >>>>> below it > > >>>>>>> when > > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > >>>>>>>>> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>> , > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY > > to a > > >>> post, > > >>>>> DELETE all TEXT > > >>>>>>> that is > > >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the > > reply > > >>> & if > > >>>>> CHANGING the > > >>>>>>> TOPIC of > > >>>>>>>>> the original message > > MODIFY > > >>> the SUBJECT > > >>>>> LINE > > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > > >>> subject)" <- > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>>>>>>>> , > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > > Advance for > > >>> Your HELP > > >>>>> in this > > >>>>>>> matter. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all > > of the > > >>> groups > > >>>>> emails, > > >>>>>>> instead of > > >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can > > change > > >>> your > > >>>>> delivery > > >>>>>>> option by > > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > > >>> Membership" on the > > >>>>> home > > >>>>>>> page. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail > > aquaticlife- > > >>> digest@yahoogrou > > >>>>> ps.com to > > >>>>>>> receive > > >>>>>>>>> the digest, which > > includes up > > >>> to 25 > > >>>>> posts at a > > >>>>>>> time in a > > >>>>>>>>> single email > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > > >>> nomail@yahoogrou > > >>>>> ps.com for > > >>>>>>> the No > > >>>>>>>>> E-Mail option where > > you will > > >>> still be > > >>>>> able to > > >>>>>>> read messages > > >>>>>>>>> on the group and post > > >>> replies. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife- > > >>> normal@yahoogrou > > >>>>> ps.com to > > >>>>>>> receive > > >>>>>>>>> individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > >>> Groups Links > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of > > this > > >>> message have > > >>>>> been > > >>>>>>> removed] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>> ------------------------------------ > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Please, DELETE this > > line and > > >>> EVERYTHING > > >>>>> below it > > >>>>>>> when > > >>>>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > >>>>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > >>>>>>> > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > >>>>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY > > to a > > >>> post, > > >>>>> DELETE all TEXT > > >>>>>>> that is > > >>>>>>>>> NOT important to the > > reply > > >>> & if > > >>>>> CHANGING the > > >>>>>>> TOPIC of > > >>>>>>>>> the original message > > MODIFY > > >>> the SUBJECT > > >>>>> LINE > > >>>>>>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>>>> subject (was re: old > > >>> subject)" <- > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>>>>>>>> , > > >>>>> > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > >>>>>>>>> We Thank You in > > Advance for > > >>> Your HELP > > >>>>> in this > > >>>>>>> matter. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> If you do not want all > > of the > > >>> groups > > >>>>> emails, > > >>>>>>> instead of > > >>>>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can > > change > > >>> your > > >>>>> delivery > > >>>>>>> option by > > >>>>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > > >>> Membership" on the > > >>>>> home > > >>>>>>> page. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> to receive the digest, > > which > > >>> includes > > >>>>> up to 25 > > >>>>>>> posts at a > > >>>>>>>>> time in a single > > email > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> for the No E-Mail > > option > > >>> where you will > > >>>>> still be > > >>>>>>> able to > > >>>>>>>>> read messages on the > > group > > >>> and post > > >>>>> replies. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> to receive individual > > >>> e-mails.Yahoo! > > >>>>> Groups > > >>>>>>> Links > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > ------------------------------------ > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > >>> below it > > >>>>> when > > >>>>>>> replying, Thank You. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > >>>>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > >>>>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > >>>>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, > > >>> DELETE all TEXT > > >>>>> that is > > >>>>>>> NOT important to the reply > > & if > > >>> CHANGING the > > >>>>> TOPIC of > > >>>>>>> the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > >>> LINE > > >>>>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>>>> subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>>>>>> , > > >>> .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > >>>>>>> We Thank You in Advance for > > Your HELP > > >>> in this > > >>>>> matter. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> If you do not want all of the > > groups > > >>> emails, > > >>>>> instead of > > >>>>>>> unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > >>> delivery > > >>>>> option by > > >>>>>>> clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > >>> home > > >>>>> page. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> to receive the digest, which > > includes > > >>> up to 25 > > >>>>> posts at a > > >>>>>>> time in a single email > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> for the No E-Mail option where > > you will > > >>> still be > > >>>>> able to > > >>>>>>> read messages on the group and > > post > > >>> replies. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > >>> Groups > > >>>>> Links > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ------------------------------------ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING below it > > >>> when > > >>>>> replying, Thank You. > > >>>>> > > >>> > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > >>>>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > >>> .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > >>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > >>> that is > > >>>>> NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > >>> TOPIC of > > >>>>> the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE > > >>> -> i.e. "new > > >>>>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > >>>>> > > >>> > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>>>> , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > >>>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > >>> matter. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > >>> instead of > > >>>>> unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > >>> option by > > >>>>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > > the home > > >>> page. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > >>> posts at a > > >>>>> time in a single email > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> for the No E-Mail option where you > > will still be > > >>> able to > > >>>>> read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > >>> Links > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ------------------------------------ > > >>> > > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below > > it when > > >>> replying, Thank You. > > >>> > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > >>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > > TEXT that is > > >>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > > the TOPIC of > > >>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > >>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > >>> > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > >>> , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > >>> > > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > >>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > >>> > > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > >>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > >>> time in a single email > > >>> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > >>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still > > be able to > > >>> read messages on the group and post replies. > > >>> > > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > >>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > > ((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old > > > subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail > > > option where you will still be able to read messages > > on the group > > > and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e- > > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46349	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Bill - You said KH of 20 and GH of 85, right? - I think that's really different from my GH of 5 and KH of 1. My Rummynose Tetras go pale when I switch the GH or KH more than just a few degrees. I have heard that they dehydrate in some way from these swings of GH and KH. I would think it would take a couple weeks to acclimate my rams to your params, but I certainly don't know much about this. Maybe someone else will chime in:)) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:49 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > the numbers are close but that's your > call. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46350	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

or maybe we are using different measuring scales for the GH and KH? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:49 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > the numbers are close but that's your > call. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46351	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Lainey, Without you naming the test kit your using its hard to properly evaluate your numbers. Mine are translated actual degree's of hardness. But if this old head of mine remembers. Your KH value (or drop reading of 1) would translate to 20. The real value is 18. something but most for clarity usually round that figure off to a whole number. Your KH value would then also be 20. Rounding again and multiplying your 5, by the 20 would result in a value of 100. Does that help you, the values are not much different.  Also when I spoke of topping a smaller tank, I did mean with distilled water.  I assumed you knew this because it would be very close to your RO water or as close as I could get from here.   Bill --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 2:53 PM > Bill - > > You said KH of 20 and GH of 85, right? - I think that's > really  > different from my GH of 5 and KH of 1. My Rummynose Tetras > go pale  > when I switch the GH or KH more than just a few degrees. I > have heard  > that they dehydrate in some way from these swings of GH and > KH. I  > would think it would take a couple weeks to acclimate my > rams to your  > params, but I certainly don't know much about this. Maybe > someone  > else will chime in:)) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:49 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > the numbers are close but that's your > > call. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46352	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

I consider any other additives just like additives in a tank... and try to avoid them. There should be no reason to promote slime coat in an otherwise healthy fish. They do it enough for themselves. With breather bags that are full of water, the fish will not be getting tossed around as much since the water will not be sloshing as much so they shouldn't get banged into the sides of the bag (which is probably resting against foam or cardboard) nearly as much. If I was shipping fish, I'd probably do a LOT of research on this topic, reading dozens of forum threads about breather bags and whether additives are needed or wanted. Here's my initial thoughts about Bag Buddies... Here's the MSDS on "Bag Buddies" from Jungle. It's a PDF file but it doesn't say what's in a "Bag Buddies" pill so it's not much help. http://www.clubjungle.com/uploads/msds/Bag%20Buddies.pdf According to Jungle, Bag Buddies will: Reduce stress in fish Promote slime coat Remove chlorine and harmful metals in the water Add beneficial Electrolytes Add oxygen to the water Reduce ammonia buildup (END SNIP) Reduce stress??? Does the Bag Buddies have THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) in it? Or valium? Promoting slime coat is usually done with salt being added to a product so that really isn't needed either but if the pre-shipping tank did have a pinch of salt per 10G in it to start, the sodium would promote a little slime coat and the chloride improves gill function, if needed, so a pinch of salt per 10G is OK for all fish as far as I know. No more than that amount is really needed unless for treatment purposes and then much higher levels would be called for. There should be no need to remove chlorine and/or harmful metals in the water if you are using tank water to ship the fish in... which is what should be used... and the tank should have a series of PWC's done on it to make sure the water is always in optimal condition, so that step isn't necessary. Add beneficial Electrolytes??? Well, the series of PWC's in a tank, prior to shipping should have the electrolyte level already up there since they come from with our tap water anyhow. Add oxygen to the water? They must have some Hydrogen Peroxide in them, which is what is used in ponds during really hot summer days when O2 levels might get really low and the fish are gasping for air... but with Breather Bags, this isn't necessary. Reduce ammonia buildup? Well, that might be a good thing for a long shipping times, especially if one has higher pH water. I would probably go with something like Prime or AmQuel as my dechlor product in my shipping tanks and then the ammonia reducer would already be in the fish's water without subjecting them to increased levels of these chemicals just during shipping. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. While we are on this topic, are the bag buddies safe for most fish as well? It says they promote slime coat but does not say how, which makes me wonder. http://www.petfish.net/reviews/bag_buddies.php Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Actually, if sellers/shippers use the newer "breather bags", instead > of the older plastic bags, they won't need oxygen and it's better for > the fish as the bags can then be filled up with ALL water instead of > only a little water. This helps to dilute any nitrogenous compounds > during shipping and the bags are made with a material that allows > gaseous exchange through the > *plastic* so the O2 levels will stay higher in the bag full of just water. > Kordon makes the bags and I'm sure others may as well. > > Here's a review of them: > http://www.petfish.net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php > <http://www.petfish.net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php> > > KensFish.com sells them: > > http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplie.html > <http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplie.html> (1/4 down page) > > You can also get heat packs from KensFish. > > This place also sells them but KensFish has better prices, even on 50 > compared to only 10 below: > > http://www.theaquaticdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8i > n&chan > <http://www.theaquaticdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8 > in&chan> > nelid=FROOG > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > Hi Amber, > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction. I'm not > sure if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, when I > said I was very much interested in them. Not knowing me as long as you > or the rest of the group do, she may have just passed it off as a joke > or missed the post entirely. We both know that is incorrect, as I do > often joke and kid around here, and do have a sense of humor, but I > never joke about Rams! > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of prep > work; obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve any > success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not air. She may just be > looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish club, she hasn't really > said what she plans to do with them. If she keeps giving those parents > those bloodworms, she's going to have another spawn shortly, as Ray > mentioned this morning. > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This mail should have arrived > last night as we were talking back and fourth? For some Yahoo mail > reason, it showed up in this mornings mail? > What can you do? Sorry for the delay in answering you. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM Maybe Lainey will cut you > > a good deal on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > > Aquabid does not > > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > > Re-read what I sent > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > > definitely the > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > > they are, sight > > > un-seen. > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > > unless the seller > > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > > and timing are > > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > > to single fish > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > > dangerous and very > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > > them. But then if > > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > > fun would we have > > > learning it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46353	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

not sure about that but certainly the same formula, I'm looking for it now. Bill --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 2:55 PM > or maybe we are using different > measuring scales for the GH and KH? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:49 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > the numbers are close but that's your > > call. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46354	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

I'm using API test kits... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 3:09 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Lainey, > > Without you naming the test kit your using its hard to properly > evaluate your numbers. Mine are translated actual degree's of > hardness. But if this old head of mine remembers. Your KH value (or > drop reading of 1) would translate to 20. The real value is 18. > something but most for clarity usually round that figure off to a > whole number. Your KH value would then also be 20. Rounding again > and multiplying your 5, by the 20 would result in a value of 100. > Does that help you, the values are not much different. Also when I > spoke of topping a smaller tank, I did mean with distilled water. > I assumed you knew this because it would be very close to your RO > water or as close as I could get from here. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 2:53 PM > > Bill - > > > > You said KH of 20 and GH of 85, right? - I think that's > > really > > different from my GH of 5 and KH of 1. My Rummynose Tetras > > go pale > > when I switch the GH or KH more than just a few degrees. I > > have heard > > that they dehydrate in some way from these swings of GH and > > KH. I > > would think it would take a couple weeks to acclimate my > > rams to your > > params, but I certainly don't know much about this. Maybe > > someone > > else will chime in:)) > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:49 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > the numbers are close but that's your > > > call. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46355	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

Just name them Bubba and Betty Jo and give them both Mullets and they'll be fine. ;-) I think Ray and others can chime in with more info on this. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Inbreeding Hi Everyone - I am not sure how bad it is to allow fish like Rams, in particular, to inbreed? If my babies go out to other homes and breed to one another, isn't that going to be a problem for their babies? I'm not a big fan of inbreeding in general, so am wondering where my responsibility lies with these Ram fry. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46356	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Y'all are both forgetting to add the ppm and/or dH to your test result numbers. Bill is likely using ppm and Lainey is likely using dH. 1 dH = 17.9 ppm... or for simplicity, at our lower levels, using 1 dH = apx. 20ppm so Bill's KH would be equal to 1 dH and his GH would be equal to 4-5 dH... so they are actually very close. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 1:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. Bill - You said KH of 20 and GH of 85, right? - I think that's really different from my GH of 5 and KH of 1. My Rummynose Tetras go pale when I switch the GH or KH more than just a few degrees. I have heard that they dehydrate in some way from these swings of GH and KH. I would think it would take a couple weeks to acclimate my rams to your params, but I certainly don't know much about this. Maybe someone else will chime in:)) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:49 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > the numbers are close but that's your > call.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Yep. See my reply that I just sent right before this one. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. or maybe we are using different measuring scales for the GH and KH? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:49 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > the numbers are close but that's your > call. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46358	From: harry perry	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish./Shipping fish.

I know a few breeders that won't feed the fish to be shipped 3 days before shipment for obvious reasons. Harry --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 3:11 PM   I consider any other additives just like additives in a tank... and try to avoid them. There should be no reason to promote slime coat in an otherwise healthy fish. They do it enough for themselves. With breather bags that are full of water, the fish will not be getting tossed around as much since the water will not be sloshing as much so they shouldn't get banged into the sides of the bag (which is probably resting against foam or cardboard) nearly as much. If I was shipping fish, I'd probably do a LOT of research on this topic, reading dozens of forum threads about breather bags and whether additives are needed or wanted. Here's my initial thoughts about Bag Buddies... Here's the MSDS on "Bag Buddies" from Jungle. It's a PDF file but it doesn't say what's in a "Bag Buddies" pill so it's not much help. http://www.clubjung le.com/uploads/ msds/Bag% 20Buddies. pdf According to Jungle, Bag Buddies will: Reduce stress in fish Promote slime coat Remove chlorine and harmful metals in the water Add beneficial Electrolytes Add oxygen to the water Reduce ammonia buildup (END SNIP) Reduce stress??? Does the Bag Buddies have THC (delta-9-tetrahydro cannabinol) in it? Or valium? Promoting slime coat is usually done with salt being added to a product so that really isn't needed either but if the pre-shipping tank did have a pinch of salt per 10G in it to start, the sodium would promote a little slime coat and the chloride improves gill function, if needed, so a pinch of salt per 10G is OK for all fish as far as I know. No more than that amount is really needed unless for treatment purposes and then much higher levels would be called for. There should be no need to remove chlorine and/or harmful metals in the water if you are using tank water to ship the fish in... which is what should be used... and the tank should have a series of PWC's done on it to make sure the water is always in optimal condition, so that step isn't necessary. Add beneficial Electrolytes? ?? Well, the series of PWC's in a tank, prior to shipping should have the electrolyte level already up there since they come from with our tap water anyhow. Add oxygen to the water? They must have some Hydrogen Peroxide in them, which is what is used in ponds during really hot summer days when O2 levels might get really low and the fish are gasping for air... but with Breather Bags, this isn't necessary. Reduce ammonia buildup? Well, that might be a good thing for a long shipping times, especially if one has higher pH water. I would probably go with something like Prime or AmQuel as my dechlor product in my shipping tanks and then the ammonia reducer would already be in the fish's water without subjecting them to increased levels of these chemicals just during shipping. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. While we are on this topic, are the bag buddies safe for most fish as well? It says they promote slime coat but does not say how, which makes me wonder. http://www.petfish. net/reviews/ bag_buddies. php Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Actually, if sellers/shippers use the newer "breather bags", instead > of the older plastic bags, they won't need oxygen and it's better for > the fish as the bags can then be filled up with ALL water instead of > only a little water. This helps to dilute any nitrogenous compounds > during shipping and the bags are made with a material that allows > gaseous exchange through the > *plastic* so the O2 levels will stay higher in the bag full of just water. > Kordon makes the bags and I'm sure others may as well. > > Here's a review of them: > http://www.petfish. net/reviews/ Breather_ Bags.php > <http://www.petfish. net/reviews/ Breather_ Bags.php> > > KensFish.com sells them: > > http://www.kensfish .com/shippingsup plie.html > <http://www.kensfish .com/shippingsup plie.html> (1/4 down page) > > You can also get heat packs from KensFish. > > This place also sells them but KensFish has better prices, even on 50 > compared to only 10 below: > > http://www.theaquat icdepot.com/ kobrba55x8in. html?productid= kobrba55x8i > n&chan > <http://www.theaquat icdepot.com/ kobrba55x8in. html?productid= kobrba55x8 > in&chan> > nelid=FROOG > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > Hi Amber, > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction. I'm not > sure if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, when I > said I was very much interested in them. Not knowing me as long as you > or the rest of the group do, she may have just passed it off as a joke > or missed the post entirely. We both know that is incorrect, as I do > often joke and kid around here, and do have a sense of humor, but I > never joke about Rams! > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of prep > work; obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve any > success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not air. She may just be > looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish club, she hasn't really > said what she plans to do with them. If she keeps giving those parents > those bloodworms, she's going to have another spawn shortly, as Ray > mentioned this morning. > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This mail should have arrived > last night as we were talking back and fourth? For some Yahoo mail > reason, it showed up in this mornings mail? > What can you do? Sorry for the delay in answering you. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM Maybe Lainey will cut you > > a good deal on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > > Aquabid does not > > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > > Re-read what I sent > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > > definitely the > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > > they are, sight > > > un-seen. > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > > unless the seller > > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > > and timing are > > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > > to single fish > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > > dangerous and very > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > > them. But then if > > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > > fun would we have > > > learning it? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46359	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Bill, Your KH and GH are NOT measured in degrees! You are measuring in ppm (PARTS PER MILLION). Your KH at 20 ppm is equivilent to 1.1 degrees of Temporary Hardness and your GH at 85 ppm is equivilent to 5 degrees General Hardness. Essentially IDENTICAL to Lainey's water parameters. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46360	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: /Cost of fish./Shipping fish.

I agree, this is the best way to do it to keep ammo levels down. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 4:14 PM, harry perry wrote: > I know a few breeders that won't feed the fish to be shipped 3 days > before shipment for obvious reasons. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 1/29/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 3:11 PM > > > > I consider any other additives just like additives in a tank... and > try to > > avoid them. There should be no reason to promote slime coat in an > otherwise > > healthy fish. They do it enough for themselves. With breather bags > that > > are full of water, the fish will not be getting tossed around as > much since > > the water will not be sloshing as much so they shouldn't get banged > into the > > sides of the bag (which is probably resting against foam or cardboard) > > nearly as much. > > If I was shipping fish, I'd probably do a LOT of research on this > topic, > > reading dozens of forum threads about breather bags and whether > additives > > are needed or wanted. > > Here's my initial thoughts about Bag Buddies... > > Here's the MSDS on "Bag Buddies" from Jungle. It's a PDF file but it > > doesn't say what's in a "Bag Buddies" pill so it's not much help. > > http://www.clubjung le.com/uploads/ msds/Bag% 20Buddies. pdf > > According to Jungle, Bag Buddies will: > > Reduce stress in fish > > Promote slime coat > > Remove chlorine and harmful metals in the water > > Add beneficial Electrolytes > > Add oxygen to the water > > Reduce ammonia buildup > > (END SNIP) > > Reduce stress??? Does the Bag Buddies have THC > > (delta-9-tetrahydro cannabinol) in it? Or valium? > > Promoting slime coat is usually done with salt being added to a > product so > > that really isn't needed either but if the pre-shipping tank did > have a > > pinch of salt per 10G in it to start, the sodium would promote a > little > > slime coat and the chloride improves gill function, if needed, so a > pinch of > > salt per 10G is OK for all fish as far as I know. No more than that > amount > > is really needed unless for treatment purposes and then much higher > levels > > would be called for. > > There should be no need to remove chlorine and/or harmful metals in > the > > water if you are using tank water to ship the fish in... which is what > > should be used... and the tank should have a series of PWC's done > on it to > > make sure the water is always in optimal condition, so that step isn't > > necessary. > > Add beneficial Electrolytes? ?? Well, the series of PWC's in a > tank, prior > > to shipping should have the electrolyte level already up there > since they > > come from with our tap water anyhow. > > Add oxygen to the water? They must have some Hydrogen Peroxide in > them, > > which is what is used in ponds during really hot summer days when > O2 levels > > might get really low and the fish are gasping for air... but with > Breather > > Bags, this isn't necessary. > > Reduce ammonia buildup? Well, that might be a good thing for a long > > shipping times, especially if one has higher pH water. I would > probably go > > with something like Prime or AmQuel as my dechlor product in my > shipping > > tanks and then the ammonia reducer would already be in the fish's > water > > without subjecting them to increased levels of these chemicals just > during > > shipping. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:09 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > While we are on this topic, are the bag buddies safe for most fish > as well? > > It says they promote slime coat but does not say how, which makes > me wonder. > > http://www.petfish. net/reviews/ bag_buddies. php > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Actually, if sellers/shippers use the newer "breather bags", instead > > > of the older plastic bags, they won't need oxygen and it's better > for > > > the fish as the bags can then be filled up with ALL water instead of > > > only a little water. This helps to dilute any nitrogenous compounds > > > during shipping and the bags are made with a material that allows > > > gaseous exchange through the > > > *plastic* so the O2 levels will stay higher in the bag full of > just water. > > > Kordon makes the bags and I'm sure others may as well. > > > > > > Here's a review of them: > > > http://www.petfish. net/reviews/ Breather_ Bags.php > > > <http://www.petfish. net/reviews/ Breather_ Bags.php> > > > > > > KensFish.com sells them: > > > > > > http://www.kensfish .com/shippingsup plie.html > > > <http://www.kensfish .com/shippingsup plie.html> (1/4 down page) > > > > > > You can also get heat packs from KensFish. > > > > > > This place also sells them but KensFish has better prices, even > on 50 > > > compared to only 10 below: > > > > > > http://www.theaquat icdepot.com/ kobrba55x8in. html?productid= > kobrba55x8i > > > n&chan > > > <http://www.theaquat icdepot.com/ kobrba55x8in. html?productid= > kobrba55x8 > > > in&chan> > > > nelid=FROOG > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles > referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO > DAT SAY > > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > > > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:08 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife % > 40yahoogroups. com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction. I'm > not > > > sure if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, > when I > > > said I was very much interested in them. Not knowing me as long > as you > > > or the rest of the group do, she may have just passed it off as a > joke > > > or missed the post entirely. We both know that is incorrect, as I do > > > often joke and kid around here, and do have a sense of humor, but I > > > never joke about Rams! > > > > > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of > prep > > > work; obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve any > > > success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not air. She may just be > > > looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish club, she hasn't really > > > said what she plans to do with them. If she keeps giving those > parents > > > those bloodworms, she's going to have another spawn shortly, as Ray > > > mentioned this morning. > > > > > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This mail should have > arrived > > > last night as we were talking back and fourth? For some Yahoo mail > > > reason, it showed up in this mornings mail? > > > What can you do? Sorry for the delay in answering you. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglund% 40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM Maybe Lainey will > cut you > > > > a good deal on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > > > > Aquabid does not > > > > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > > > > Re-read what I sent > > > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > > > > definitely the > > > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > > > > they are, sight > > > > > un-seen. > > > > > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > > > > unless the seller > > > > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > > > > and timing are > > > > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > > > > to single fish > > > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > > > > dangerous and very > > > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > > > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > > > > them. But then if > > > > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > > > > fun would we have > > > > > learning it? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46361	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

Hi Ray, Thanks a lot. I had the right math but wrong explanation of it. Or in other words. I knew where I was going------------ but not how to get there!   Bill --- On Fri, 1/29/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 4:16 PM > Bill,  Your KH and GH are NOT > measured in degrees!   You are measuring in > ppm (PARTS PER MILLION).  Your KH at 20 ppm is > equivilent to 1.1 degrees of > Temporary Hardness and your GH at 85 ppm is equivilent to 5 > degrees General > Hardness.  Essentially IDENTICAL to Lainey's water > parameters.  Ray</HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46362	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

Lenny and Lainey, There is ABSOLUTELTY nothing wrong with inbreeding to a small controlled degree. After all, this is how mutations that we consider as enhancements are "fixed" as a strain -- and is also how strains are continued without weakening when two or more parallel lines of similarly (related) "fixed" lines of genes are simultaneously bred along side each other and periodically crossed with each other at pre-determined intervals. Line breeding -- the best method we can use to continue a developed strain of any mutation we have "fixed" to permanently carry on the same traits (such as long-fins and/or color patterns, etc.) without allowing degradation of the genetic make-up of the species -- is essentially controlled inbreeding to retain those certain traits long-term without having any weakening effects. In line breeding, two (or more) lines of one strain, having the same genetic make-up of a mutation (brothers and sisters of the same spawn) are bred (inbred) side by side as cousins -- meaning pairs from the same spawn, after maturing, are bred with their progeny and their progeny's progeny being bred together to keep the same traits without any of these very similarly genetically produced subsequent generations being crossed to any of the original pairs' siblings' progeny's progeny -- for no more than 5 generations (or sooner), at which time at the fifth generation level of each separate line's progeny, the fish from one parallel line of cousins is then crossed to the similar parallel line of cousins -- now re-strengthening the strain with keeping the very similar genetic make-up of both parallel strains. A certain amount of controlled inbreeding is what goes into line breeding and is the way that Albino Swordtails are continued, Crown-Tail Bettas are continued and Veiltail and/or Koi Angels are continued without losing the mutation, yet without weakening the strain. Additional vigor may be periodically "injected" into a strain by breeding to the environmentally found evolved to be strongest possible gene pool for the species, wild type fish, which then is to be line bred again to bring out the enhancement of the strain that is being bred for. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46363	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish./Shipping fish.

Harry, Lenny, Some shippers include a small square of PolyFilter in the fish bag to absorb what little ammonia might be given off during shipping. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46364	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

Ray - In breeding and linebreeding is something I know a fair amount about in birds, and overall I have to say it's pretty disastrous in birds. Maybe in nature all the riff raff gets culled out of a linebred or inbred cross, but it's almost impossible to do effective culling in birds since most of the problems are invisible and show up later in life as propensity to blindness or tumors etc. So I am trying to learn fresh about this in fish, but am coming in with a strong prejudice with regard to these hidden traits that cause terrible disease and suffering in linebred or inbred birds - none of which stops breeders from proceeding in order to produce all kinds of exotic mutations that fetch a fortune on the open market. Is it different in fish? What about people getting my ram fry and having them breed? IOW what about sibling crosses? These are the worst in birds, though the parent/offspring crosses are plenty bad too. Thanks for enlightening me on this... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 5:05 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lenny and Lainey, There is ABSOLUTELTY nothing wrong with > inbreeding to a > small controlled degree. After all, this is how mutations that we > consider > as enhancements are "fixed" as a strain -- and is also how strains are > continued without weakening when two or more parallel lines of > similarly > (related) "fixed" lines of genes are simultaneously bred along side > each other and > periodically crossed with each other at pre-determined intervals. > > Line breeding -- the best method we can use to continue a developed > strain > of any mutation we have "fixed" to permanently carry on the same > traits > (such as long-fins and/or color patterns, etc.) without allowing > degradation of > the genetic make-up of the species -- is essentially controlled > inbreeding > to retain those certain traits long-term without having any weakening > effects. In line breeding, two (or more) lines of one strain, > having the same > genetic make-up of a mutation (brothers and sisters of the same > spawn) are bred > (inbred) side by side as cousins -- meaning pairs from the same > spawn, after > maturing, are bred with their progeny and their progeny's progeny > being > bred together to keep the same traits without any of these very > similarly > genetically produced subsequent generations being crossed to any of > the original > pairs' siblings' progeny's progeny -- for no more than 5 > generations (or > sooner), at which time at the fifth generation level of each > separate line's > progeny, the fish from one parallel line of cousins is then crossed > to the > similar parallel line of cousins -- now re-strengthening the strain > with > keeping the very similar genetic make-up of both parallel strains. > > A certain amount of controlled inbreeding is what goes into line > breeding > and is the way that Albino Swordtails are continued, Crown-Tail > Bettas are > continued and Veiltail and/or Koi Angels are continued without > losing the > mutation, yet without weakening the strain. Additional vigor may be > periodically "injected" into a strain by breeding to the > environmentally found evolved > to be strongest possible gene pool for the species, wild type fish, > which > then is to be line bred again to bring out the enhancement of the > strain that > is being bred for. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

Dat der is wut I tole my purty lil sister, while pickin' Deliverance on my banjo an' chawin' on some tobacca! Just kidding.. I don't have a sister... but the rest is true! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Inbreeding Lenny and Lainey, There is ABSOLUTELTY nothing wrong with inbreeding to a small controlled degree. After all, this is how mutations that we consider as enhancements are "fixed" as a strain -- and is also how strains are continued without weakening when two or more parallel lines of similarly (related) "fixed" lines of genes are simultaneously bred along side each other and periodically crossed with each other at pre-determined intervals. Line breeding -- the best method we can use to continue a developed strain of any mutation we have "fixed" to permanently carry on the same traits (such as long-fins and/or color patterns, etc.) without allowing degradation of the genetic make-up of the species -- is essentially controlled inbreeding to retain those certain traits long-term without having any weakening effects. In line breeding, two (or more) lines of one strain, having the same genetic make-up of a mutation (brothers and sisters of the same spawn) are bred (inbred) side by side as cousins -- meaning pairs from the same spawn, after maturing, are bred with their progeny and their progeny's progeny being bred together to keep the same traits without any of these very similarly genetically produced subsequent generations being crossed to any of the original pairs' siblings' progeny's progeny -- for no more than 5 generations (or sooner), at which time at the fifth generation level of each separate line's progeny, the fish from one parallel line of cousins is then crossed to the similar parallel line of cousins -- now re-strengthening the strain with keeping the very similar genetic make-up of both parallel strains. A certain amount of controlled inbreeding is what goes into line breeding and is the way that Albino Swordtails are continued, Crown-Tail Bettas are continued and Veiltail and/or Koi Angels are continued without losing the mutation, yet without weakening the strain. Additional vigor may be periodically "injected" into a strain by breeding to the environmentally found evolved to be strongest possible gene pool for the species, wild type fish, which then is to be line bred again to bring out the enhancement of the strain that is being bred for. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46366	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

I can only assume that inbreeding and linebreeding in fish is similar to rats/rodents. You can inbreed and linebreed rats and most rodents without causing health issues (unless the line carries health issues, which is another matter entirely). Breeding 2 healthy siblings together because they have desirable traits would give you healthy babies. I did a lot of research the last few years on breeding rats (particularly dalmation patterns and dumbo ears). I'm sure in the wild siblings of fish will breed together, it's bound to happen now and then ;) Just my two cents, as I am still new to breeding fish, but I know a lot about breeding rats/rodents and in particular my Sun Conures (which I have stopped breeding due to not having time to hand feed the babies). Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Ray - > > In breeding and linebreeding is something I know a fair amount about > in birds, and overall I have to say it's pretty disastrous in birds. > Maybe in nature all the riff raff gets culled out of a linebred or > inbred cross, but it's almost impossible to do effective culling in > birds since most of the problems are invisible and show up later in > life as propensity to blindness or tumors etc. > > So I am trying to learn fresh about this in fish, but am coming in > with a strong prejudice with regard to these hidden traits that cause > terrible disease and suffering in linebred or inbred birds - none of > which stops breeders from proceeding in order to produce all kinds of > exotic mutations that fetch a fortune on the open market. > > Is it different in fish? > > What about people getting my ram fry and having them breed? IOW what > about sibling crosses? These are the worst in birds, though the > parent/offspring crosses are plenty bad too. > > Thanks for enlightening me on this... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 5:05 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > >> Lenny and Lainey, There is ABSOLUTELTY nothing wrong with >> inbreeding to a >> small controlled degree. After all, this is how mutations that we >> consider >> as enhancements are "fixed" as a strain -- and is also how strains are >> continued without weakening when two or more parallel lines of >> similarly >> (related) "fixed" lines of genes are simultaneously bred along side >> each other and >> periodically crossed with each other at pre-determined intervals. >> >> Line breeding -- the best method we can use to continue a developed >> strain >> of any mutation we have "fixed" to permanently carry on the same >> traits >> (such as long-fins and/or color patterns, etc.) without allowing >> degradation of >> the genetic make-up of the species -- is essentially controlled >> inbreeding >> to retain those certain traits long-term without having any weakening >> effects. In line breeding, two (or more) lines of one strain, >> having the same >> genetic make-up of a mutation (brothers and sisters of the same >> spawn) are bred >> (inbred) side by side as cousins -- meaning pairs from the same >> spawn, after >> maturing, are bred with their progeny and their progeny's progeny >> being >> bred together to keep the same traits without any of these very >> similarly >> genetically produced subsequent generations being crossed to any of >> the original >> pairs' siblings' progeny's progeny -- for no more than 5 >> generations (or >> sooner), at which time at the fifth generation level of each >> separate line's >> progeny, the fish from one parallel line of cousins is then crossed >> to the >> similar parallel line of cousins -- now re-strengthening the strain >> with >> keeping the very similar genetic make-up of both parallel strains. >> >> A certain amount of controlled inbreeding is what goes into line >> breeding >> and is the way that Albino Swordtails are continued, Crown-Tail >> Bettas are >> continued and Veiltail and/or Koi Angels are continued without >> losing the >> mutation, yet without weakening the strain. Additional vigor may be >> periodically "injected" into a strain by breeding to the >> environmentally found evolved >> to be strongest possible gene pool for the species, wild type fish, >> which >> then is to be line bred again to bring out the enhancement of the >> strain that >> is being bred for. Ray </HTML> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46367	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

Lainey, I can understand your pejudice regarding inbreeding, especially as concerns a more highly evolved organism (such as birds). Then too, I don't know how far (how many generations) some bird breeders allow this inbreeding to go on. Naturally, the more that inbreeding is allowed to go on, the more concentrated will be any detrimental trait (if any) of the species, and the weaker the line of breeding will become as it is further removed from the genetic make-up of the species into a small gene-pool of its own. The detrimental effects of inbreeding will be expotentially manifested as the evolution of the species being inbred increases. That is to say, the higher evolved the organism, the more readily will become apparent the effects of inbreeding whether as an improvement or as a degradation of the species -- and quite often the concentrations of the genes of higher life forms will see the bad effects of such breeding as a result. The higher the life form. the sooner you'll see the results of the inbred concentrations of the genes. Birds are so much more advanced in the evolution of animals than are fish, and poor genetic make-up is soon seen from too much inbreeding of them. Yet, a certain amount of inbreeding goes into keeping each of the separate "strains," or Breeds of dogs. We wouldn't have all these separate dog breeds if it weren't for inbreeding (fixing of the certain traits we've developed in them) -- and, if we bred dogs indiscriminately, we wouldn't have all these different breeds of dogs (Collies, German Shepards, Golden Retrievers, etc.). But when too much inbreeding goes on, like in these puppy mills, the young can wind up with all sorts of defects such as hip displasia. The same goes for fish. If we didn't inbreed, at least limitedly in a controlled manner, we would not have Red Swordtails, Black Mollies, Hi-Fin Platies, Half-Moon Bettas or Albino Paradise Fish. If we want to continue lines of man-made strains of our tropical and gold fish, we need to continue their lines via at least some inbreeding to retain their traits. Even race horses are sometimes inbred when breeding a daughter back to the stallion that fathered her, to help carry on that stallion's traits if he was proven to be a more consisent winner. Inbreeding cannot be carried on for very long in horses though, any more than it can be carried on in humans -- which is why cousin to cousin marriages are discouraged. We know what had happened within some European monarchy when too close of marriages were carried out for too long; some sons and daughters developed madness. But here we're talking about the most highly evolved organism yet. You'd be hard-pressed to find such deterioration of genes in much lower life forms with inbreeding. As a "for instance," future queen bees and the drones (males) that mate with her all come from the save hive -- and all have the same genetic make up (even if the males have only half the compliment). Getting back to birds, while it may be impossible to see beforehand the defects that inbreeding may result in, I could guess right off hand that usually such defects are already the result of too much inbreeding before the unknowing breeder attempts inbreeding of them further. Indiscriminate inbreeding in birds (or fish) -- which is what I suspect on those occasions with the tumors and/or blindness you describe -- is at least or worse than indiscriminate outbreeding of dogs (in one wanted to retain the purebreds). Now, as for people getting your Ram fry, and their breeding these Ram siblings, as long as they are not breeding for more than the fifth generation (and as long as there are no defects in their genetic make-up -- which admittedly is next to impossible to know -- either way), no harm will be done and no deterioration of the organism will be manifested. For all YOU know, your pair MAY BE brother & sister! In fact, their parents and grandparents may have been bred as siblings to each other as successive generations without your knowing it. As long as there is no defective gene material within an organism's make-up, theoretically inbreeding can continue almost ad infinitum -- at least in the relatively short term of things. There is an African Killiefish (Scriptaphyosemion calibaricus -- now renamed, liberiensis) in the hobby that was first imported in the 1930's. This species is still in the hobby today -- As a result of continually breeding this SAME gene pool WITHOUT ANY new influx of new genetic material, AND there are NO DEFECTS in its genetic make-up. The number of generations that this same small closely related, captively-bred and limited gene-pooled fish has been continually bred since the 1930's is indeterminable and yet it's still going strong! I hope this allays some of your fears. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46368	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

I thought bag buddies actually WAS a little like valium. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. I consider any other additives just like additives in a tank... and try to avoid them. There should be no reason to promote slime coat in an otherwise healthy fish. They do it enough for themselves. With breather bags that are full of water, the fish will not be getting tossed around as much since the water will not be sloshing as much so they shouldn't get banged into the sides of the bag (which is probably resting against foam or cardboard) nearly as much. If I was shipping fish, I'd probably do a LOT of research on this topic, reading dozens of forum threads about breather bags and whether additives are needed or wanted. Here's my initial thoughts about Bag Buddies... Here's the MSDS on "Bag Buddies" from Jungle. It's a PDF file but it doesn't say what's in a "Bag Buddies" pill so it's not much help. http://www.clubjung <http://www.clubjungle.com/uploads/msds/Bag%20Buddies.pdf> le.com/uploads/msds/Bag%20Buddies.pdf According to Jungle, Bag Buddies will: Reduce stress in fish Promote slime coat Remove chlorine and harmful metals in the water Add beneficial Electrolytes Add oxygen to the water Reduce ammonia buildup (END SNIP) Reduce stress??? Does the Bag Buddies have THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) in it? Or valium? Promoting slime coat is usually done with salt being added to a product so that really isn't needed either but if the pre-shipping tank did have a pinch of salt per 10G in it to start, the sodium would promote a little slime coat and the chloride improves gill function, if needed, so a pinch of salt per 10G is OK for all fish as far as I know. No more than that amount is really needed unless for treatment purposes and then much higher levels would be called for. There should be no need to remove chlorine and/or harmful metals in the water if you are using tank water to ship the fish in... which is what should be used... and the tank should have a series of PWC's done on it to make sure the water is always in optimal condition, so that step isn't necessary. Add beneficial Electrolytes??? Well, the series of PWC's in a tank, prior to shipping should have the electrolyte level already up there since they come from with our tap water anyhow. Add oxygen to the water? They must have some Hydrogen Peroxide in them, which is what is used in ponds during really hot summer days when O2 levels might get really low and the fish are gasping for air... but with Breather Bags, this isn't necessary. Reduce ammonia buildup? Well, that might be a good thing for a long shipping times, especially if one has higher pH water. I would probably go with something like Prime or AmQuel as my dechlor product in my shipping tanks and then the ammonia reducer would already be in the fish's water without subjecting them to increased levels of these chemicals just during shipping. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. While we are on this topic, are the bag buddies safe for most fish as well? It says they promote slime coat but does not say how, which makes me wonder. http://www.petfish. <http://www.petfish.net/reviews/bag_buddies.php> net/reviews/bag_buddies.php Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Actually, if sellers/shippers use the newer "breather bags", instead > of the older plastic bags, they won't need oxygen and it's better for > the fish as the bags can then be filled up with ALL water instead of > only a little water. This helps to dilute any nitrogenous compounds > during shipping and the bags are made with a material that allows > gaseous exchange through the > *plastic* so the O2 levels will stay higher in the bag full of just water. > Kordon makes the bags and I'm sure others may as well. > > Here's a review of them: > http://www.petfish. <http://www.petfish.net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php> net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php > <http://www.petfish. <http://www.petfish.net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php> net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php> > > KensFish.com sells them: > > http://www.kensfish <http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplie.html> .com/shippingsupplie.html > <http://www.kensfish <http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplie.html> .com/shippingsupplie.html> (1/4 down page) > > You can also get heat packs from KensFish. > > This place also sells them but KensFish has better prices, even on 50 > compared to only 10 below: > > http://www.theaquat <http://www.theaquaticdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8i> icdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8i > n&chan > <http://www.theaquat <http://www.theaquaticdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8> icdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8 > in&chan> > nelid=FROOG > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > Hi Amber, > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction. I'm not > sure if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, when I > said I was very much interested in them. Not knowing me as long as you > or the rest of the group do, she may have just passed it off as a joke > or missed the post entirely. We both know that is incorrect, as I do > often joke and kid around here, and do have a sense of humor, but I > never joke about Rams! > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of prep > work; obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve any > success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not air. She may just be > looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish club, she hasn't really > said what she plans to do with them. If she keeps giving those parents > those bloodworms, she's going to have another spawn shortly, as Ray > mentioned this morning. > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This mail should have arrived > last night as we were talking back and fourth? For some Yahoo mail > reason, it showed up in this mornings mail? > What can you do? Sorry for the delay in answering you. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM Maybe Lainey will cut you > > a good deal on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > > Aquabid does not > > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > > Re-read what I sent > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > > definitely the > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > > they are, sight > > > un-seen. > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > > unless the seller > > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > > and timing are > > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > > to single fish > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > > dangerous and very > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > > them. But then if > > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > > fun would we have > > > learning it? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46369	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

I agree with Ray. Although inbreeding can reveal defects already present, it does not cause defects. At least breeding related fish you know the problems and can select them out. Outcrossing introduces a completely unknown set of defects with a completely unknowable outcome. It has been discovered that what we all grew up thinking is just not true. So no, with fish breeding siblings and parent/offspring is fine, even desirable. Without even trying I've bred 100s of fry and only 2 deformities from my very first clutch. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 5:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Inbreeding Ray - In breeding and linebreeding is something I know a fair amount about in birds, and overall I have to say it's pretty disastrous in birds. Maybe in nature all the riff raff gets culled out of a linebred or inbred cross, but it's almost impossible to do effective culling in birds since most of the problems are invisible and show up later in life as propensity to blindness or tumors etc. So I am trying to learn fresh about this in fish, but am coming in with a strong prejudice with regard to these hidden traits that cause terrible disease and suffering in linebred or inbred birds - none of which stops breeders from proceeding in order to produce all kinds of exotic mutations that fetch a fortune on the open market. Is it different in fish? What about people getting my ram fry and having them breed? IOW what about sibling crosses? These are the worst in birds, though the parent/offspring crosses are plenty bad too. Thanks for enlightening me on this... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 5:05 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lenny and Lainey, There is ABSOLUTELTY nothing wrong with > inbreeding to a > small controlled degree. After all, this is how mutations that we > consider > as enhancements are "fixed" as a strain -- and is also how strains are > continued without weakening when two or more parallel lines of > similarly > (related) "fixed" lines of genes are simultaneously bred along side > each other and > periodically crossed with each other at pre-determined intervals. > > Line breeding -- the best method we can use to continue a developed > strain > of any mutation we have "fixed" to permanently carry on the same > traits > (such as long-fins and/or color patterns, etc.) without allowing > degradation of > the genetic make-up of the species -- is essentially controlled > inbreeding > to retain those certain traits long-term without having any weakening > effects. In line breeding, two (or more) lines of one strain, > having the same > genetic make-up of a mutation (brothers and sisters of the same > spawn) are bred > (inbred) side by side as cousins -- meaning pairs from the same > spawn, after > maturing, are bred with their progeny and their progeny's progeny > being > bred together to keep the same traits without any of these very > similarly > genetically produced subsequent generations being crossed to any of > the original > pairs' siblings' progeny's progeny -- for no more than 5 > generations (or > sooner), at which time at the fifth generation level of each > separate line's > progeny, the fish from one parallel line of cousins is then crossed > to the > similar parallel line of cousins -- now re-strengthening the strain > with > keeping the very similar genetic make-up of both parallel strains. > > A certain amount of controlled inbreeding is what goes into line > breeding > and is the way that Albino Swordtails are continued, Crown-Tail > Bettas are > continued and Veiltail and/or Koi Angels are continued without > losing the > mutation, yet without weakening the strain. Additional vigor may be > periodically "injected" into a strain by breeding to the > environmentally found evolved > to be strongest possible gene pool for the species, wild type fish, > which > then is to be line bred again to bring out the enhancement of the > strain that > is being bred for. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish.

I can see the headlines now... "Drug dealer arrested in front of PetsMart pushing Bag Buddies with the street name of Buzz Buddies". Sub-title, "Cheech and Chong contribute to his legal defense fund". LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. I thought bag buddies actually WAS a little like valium. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. I consider any other additives just like additives in a tank... and try to avoid them. There should be no reason to promote slime coat in an otherwise healthy fish. They do it enough for themselves. With breather bags that are full of water, the fish will not be getting tossed around as much since the water will not be sloshing as much so they shouldn't get banged into the sides of the bag (which is probably resting against foam or cardboard) nearly as much. If I was shipping fish, I'd probably do a LOT of research on this topic, reading dozens of forum threads about breather bags and whether additives are needed or wanted. Here's my initial thoughts about Bag Buddies... Here's the MSDS on "Bag Buddies" from Jungle. It's a PDF file but it doesn't say what's in a "Bag Buddies" pill so it's not much help. http://www.clubjung <http://www.clubjungle.com/uploads/msds/Bag%20Buddies.pdf> le.com/uploads/msds/Bag%20Buddies.pdf According to Jungle, Bag Buddies will: Reduce stress in fish Promote slime coat Remove chlorine and harmful metals in the water Add beneficial Electrolytes Add oxygen to the water Reduce ammonia buildup (END SNIP) Reduce stress??? Does the Bag Buddies have THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) in it? Or valium? Promoting slime coat is usually done with salt being added to a product so that really isn't needed either but if the pre-shipping tank did have a pinch of salt per 10G in it to start, the sodium would promote a little slime coat and the chloride improves gill function, if needed, so a pinch of salt per 10G is OK for all fish as far as I know. No more than that amount is really needed unless for treatment purposes and then much higher levels would be called for. There should be no need to remove chlorine and/or harmful metals in the water if you are using tank water to ship the fish in... which is what should be used... and the tank should have a series of PWC's done on it to make sure the water is always in optimal condition, so that step isn't necessary. Add beneficial Electrolytes??? Well, the series of PWC's in a tank, prior to shipping should have the electrolyte level already up there since they come from with our tap water anyhow. Add oxygen to the water? They must have some Hydrogen Peroxide in them, which is what is used in ponds during really hot summer days when O2 levels might get really low and the fish are gasping for air... but with Breather Bags, this isn't necessary. Reduce ammonia buildup? Well, that might be a good thing for a long shipping times, especially if one has higher pH water. I would probably go with something like Prime or AmQuel as my dechlor product in my shipping tanks and then the ammonia reducer would already be in the fish's water without subjecting them to increased levels of these chemicals just during shipping. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. While we are on this topic, are the bag buddies safe for most fish as well? It says they promote slime coat but does not say how, which makes me wonder. http://www.petfish. <http://www.petfish.net/reviews/bag_buddies.php> net/reviews/bag_buddies.php Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Actually, if sellers/shippers use the newer "breather bags", instead > of the older plastic bags, they won't need oxygen and it's better for > the fish as the bags can then be filled up with ALL water instead of > only a little water. This helps to dilute any nitrogenous compounds > during shipping and the bags are made with a material that allows > gaseous exchange through the > *plastic* so the O2 levels will stay higher in the bag full of just water. > Kordon makes the bags and I'm sure others may as well. > > Here's a review of them: > http://www.petfish. <http://www.petfish.net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php> net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php > <http://www.petfish. > <http://www.petfish.net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php> net/reviews/Breather_Bags.php> > > KensFish.com sells them: > > http://www.kensfish <http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplie.html> .com/shippingsupplie.html > <http://www.kensfish <http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplie.html> .com/shippingsupplie.html> (1/4 down page) > > You can also get heat packs from KensFish. > > This place also sells them but KensFish has better prices, even on 50 > compared to only 10 below: > > http://www.theaquat <http://www.theaquaticdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8i> icdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8i > n&chan > <http://www.theaquat <http://www.theaquaticdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8> icdepot.com/kobrba55x8in.html?productid=kobrba55x8 > in&chan> > nelid=FROOG > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:08 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > Hi Amber, > > Up to this point, she has made no such offer in my direction. I'm not > sure if she thought I was kidding about her Rams before or not, when I > said I was very much interested in them. Not knowing me as long as you > or the rest of the group do, she may have just passed it off as a joke > or missed the post entirely. We both know that is incorrect, as I do > often joke and kid around here, and do have a sense of humor, but I > never joke about Rams! > > Also she is a very busy Lady and shipping fish requires a lot of prep > work; obtaining a suitable container and in order to achieve any > success at all, oxygen for the bag itself not air. She may just be > looking into her LPS or perhaps a local fish club, she hasn't really > said what she plans to do with them. If she keeps giving those parents > those bloodworms, she's going to have another spawn shortly, as Ray > mentioned this morning. > > I'm asking your forgiveness here Amber. This mail should have arrived > last night as we were talking back and fourth? For some Yahoo mail > reason, it showed up in this mornings mail? > What can you do? Sorry for the delay in answering you. > > Bill > > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@gmail. > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> com > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry eating baby brine/Cost of fish. > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:35 PM Maybe Lainey will cut you > > a good deal on some of her babies ;) hehe. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Sorry just sent you a mail before I saw this. First, > > Aquabid does not > > > have enough. Remember from my message just sent? > > Re-read what I sent > > > Harry. It's not just the quality here but most > > definitely the > > > quantity. You are buying these fish, however great > > they are, sight > > > un-seen. > > > > > > You can't go back again next month and order more > > unless the seller > > > will swear, that they are from the same spawn. Size > > and timing are > > > everything here. Unless of course if you just say no > > to single fish > > > all together and only deal with pairs, which can be > > dangerous and very > > > expensive. I suspect this is where much of the > > Internet Lore on Rams > > > comes from and why people have such a hard time with > > them. But then if > > > they were really easy, what would we learn and what > > fun would we have > > > learning it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46371	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

Ray, I very much appreciate all this information. I think the key for me is the lower life form aspect of fish, if you will, compared to birds. I have heard all these justifications for linebreeding birds - about how you can't create problems that aren't already there genetically and so forth, and I know they are true. But, the problem with birds is that they look and seem fine for about a year or more, during which time the breeders sell them as perfectly healthy. The problems crop up way later, in the form of diseases and so on, and no one ever knows it was from the breeding (except the breeder who doesn't admit it). The reason I know this is true is that I have done it probably hundreds of times myself and I do pay close attention throughout the lifespan of the birds, which for me is about eight years. When you see cataracts showing up in one line, at four years old, over and over and over, well, that tells you something. Or, for example, I have an aviary full of birds from a "friend" who linebreeds, and every single one of them has gone bald in adolescence (this will be permanent now) and I have taken them in to live out their lives here as a favor to my "friend". That's one aviary where I can't place my own birds because it's full of unwanted stock. And there was no reason for them to have been produced in the first place. Obviously, I could go on and on. So I would probably have to see it to believe it with my own eyes in fish, that it is different. I would watch for diseases that crop up and shorten lifespans in certain lines, etc. But I am totally transferring my experience from the birds, and so my mind, if not open, is at least ajar when it comes to fish. I think for me, with my Rams, I will probably trade out some babies for some "new blood" at the fancy LFS where I got the parents, who I realize may well be siblings after all. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 6:47 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, I can understand your pejudice regarding inbreeding, > especially as > concerns a more highly evolved organism (such as birds). Then too, > I don't > know how far (how many generations) some bird breeders allow this > inbreeding to go on. Naturally, the more that inbreeding is allowed > to go on, the > more concentrated will be any detrimental trait (if any) of the > species, and > the weaker the line of breeding will become as it is further > removed from the > genetic make-up of the species into a small gene-pool of its own. > > The detrimental effects of inbreeding will be expotentially > manifested as > the evolution of the species being inbred increases. That is to > say, the > higher evolved the organism, the more readily will become apparent > the effects > of inbreeding whether as an improvement or as a degradation of the > species > -- and quite often the concentrations of the genes of higher life > forms will > see the bad effects of such breeding as a result. The higher the > life form. > the sooner you'll see the results of the inbred concentrations of the > genes. Birds are so much more advanced in the evolution of animals > than are > fish, and poor genetic make-up is soon seen from too much > inbreeding of them. > > Yet, a certain amount of inbreeding goes into keeping each of the > separate > "strains," or Breeds of dogs. We wouldn't have all these separate dog > breeds if it weren't for inbreeding (fixing of the certain traits > we've developed > in them) -- and, if we bred dogs indiscriminately, we wouldn't have > all > these different breeds of dogs (Collies, German Shepards, Golden > Retrievers, > etc.). But when too much inbreeding goes on, like in these puppy > mills, the > young can wind up with all sorts of defects such as hip displasia. > > The same goes for fish. If we didn't inbreed, at least limitedly in a > controlled manner, we would not have Red Swordtails, Black Mollies, > Hi-Fin > Platies, Half-Moon Bettas or Albino Paradise Fish. If we want to > continue lines > of man-made strains of our tropical and gold fish, we need to > continue their > lines via at least some inbreeding to retain their traits. > > Even race horses are sometimes inbred when breeding a daughter back > to the > stallion that fathered her, to help carry on that stallion's traits > if he > was proven to be a more consisent winner. Inbreeding cannot be > carried on for > very long in horses though, any more than it can be carried on in > humans -- > which is why cousin to cousin marriages are discouraged. We know > what had > happened within some European monarchy when too close of marriages > were > carried out for too long; some sons and daughters developed > madness. But here > we're talking about the most highly evolved organism yet. You'd be > hard-pressed to find such deterioration of genes in much lower life > forms with > inbreeding. As a "for instance," future queen bees and the drones > (males) that > mate with her all come from the save hive -- and all have the same > genetic > make up (even if the males have only half the compliment). > > Getting back to birds, while it may be impossible to see beforehand > the > defects that inbreeding may result in, I could guess right off hand > that > usually such defects are already the result of too much inbreeding > before the > unknowing breeder attempts inbreeding of them further. Indiscriminate > inbreeding in birds (or fish) -- which is what I suspect on those > occasions with the > tumors and/or blindness you describe -- is at least or worse than > indiscriminate outbreeding of dogs (in one wanted to retain the > purebreds). > > Now, as for people getting your Ram fry, and their breeding these Ram > siblings, as long as they are not breeding for more than the fifth > generation > (and as long as there are no defects in their genetic make-up -- which > admittedly is next to impossible to know -- either way), no harm > will be done and no > deterioration of the organism will be manifested. For all YOU know, > your > pair MAY BE brother & sister! In fact, their parents and > grandparents may > have been bred as siblings to each other as successive generations > without > your knowing it. As long as there is no defective gene material > within an > organism's make-up, theoretically inbreeding can continue almost ad > infinitum -- > at least in the relatively short term of things. There is an African > Killiefish (Scriptaphyosemion calibaricus -- now renamed, > liberiensis) in the > hobby that was first imported in the 1930's. This species is still > in the > hobby today -- As a result of continually breeding this SAME gene > pool WITHOUT > ANY new influx of new genetic material, AND there are NO DEFECTS in > its > genetic make-up. The number of generations that this same small > closely related, > captively-bred and limited gene-pooled fish has been continually > bred since > the 1930's is indeterminable and yet it's still going strong! I > hope this > allays some of your fears. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46372	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

I have never seen a parrot go bald without plucking it's own feather's out (usually due to trauma of some sort, whether caused on purpose or not). I have also never heard of parrot's going bald either, except for plucking in certain areas of their body. How odd. I would never inbreed/linebreed my parrots anyways, but interesting to know. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Ray, > > I very much appreciate all this information. I think the key for me > is the lower life form aspect of fish, if you will, compared to > birds. I have heard all these justifications for linebreeding birds - > about how you can't create problems that aren't already there > genetically and so forth, and I know they are true. But, the problem > with birds is that they look and seem fine for about a year or more, > during which time the breeders sell them as perfectly healthy. The > problems crop up way later, in the form of diseases and so on, and no > one ever knows it was from the breeding (except the breeder who > doesn't admit it). The reason I know this is true is that I have done > it probably hundreds of times myself and I do pay close attention > throughout the lifespan of the birds, which for me is about eight > years. When you see cataracts showing up in one line, at four years > old, over and over and over, well, that tells you something. Or, for > example, I have an aviary full of birds from a "friend" who > linebreeds, and every single one of them has gone bald in adolescence > (this will be permanent now) and I have taken them in to live out > their lives here as a favor to my "friend". That's one aviary where I > can't place my own birds because it's full of unwanted stock. And > there was no reason for them to have been produced in the first > place. Obviously, I could go on and on. > > So I would probably have to see it to believe it with my own eyes in > fish, that it is different. I would watch for diseases that crop up > and shorten lifespans in certain lines, etc. But I am totally > transferring my experience from the birds, and so my mind, if not > open, is at least ajar when it comes to fish. > > I think for me, with my Rams, I will probably trade out some babies > for some "new blood" at the fancy LFS where I got the parents, who I > realize may well be siblings after all. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 6:47 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > >> Lainey, I can understand your pejudice regarding inbreeding, >> especially as >> concerns a more highly evolved organism (such as birds). Then too, >> I don't >> know how far (how many generations) some bird breeders allow this >> inbreeding to go on. Naturally, the more that inbreeding is allowed >> to go on, the >> more concentrated will be any detrimental trait (if any) of the >> species, and >> the weaker the line of breeding will become as it is further >> removed from the >> genetic make-up of the species into a small gene-pool of its own. >> >> The detrimental effects of inbreeding will be expotentially >> manifested as >> the evolution of the species being inbred increases. That is to >> say, the >> higher evolved the organism, the more readily will become apparent >> the effects >> of inbreeding whether as an improvement or as a degradation of the >> species >> -- and quite often the concentrations of the genes of higher life >> forms will >> see the bad effects of such breeding as a result. The higher the >> life form. >> the sooner you'll see the results of the inbred concentrations of the >> genes. Birds are so much more advanced in the evolution of animals >> than are >> fish, and poor genetic make-up is soon seen from too much >> inbreeding of them. >> >> Yet, a certain amount of inbreeding goes into keeping each of the >> separate >> "strains," or Breeds of dogs. We wouldn't have all these separate dog >> breeds if it weren't for inbreeding (fixing of the certain traits >> we've developed >> in them) -- and, if we bred dogs indiscriminately, we wouldn't have >> all >> these different breeds of dogs (Collies, German Shepards, Golden >> Retrievers, >> etc.). But when too much inbreeding goes on, like in these puppy >> mills, the >> young can wind up with all sorts of defects such as hip displasia. >> >> The same goes for fish. If we didn't inbreed, at least limitedly in a >> controlled manner, we would not have Red Swordtails, Black Mollies, >> Hi-Fin >> Platies, Half-Moon Bettas or Albino Paradise Fish. If we want to >> continue lines >> of man-made strains of our tropical and gold fish, we need to >> continue their >> lines via at least some inbreeding to retain their traits. >> >> Even race horses are sometimes inbred when breeding a daughter back >> to the >> stallion that fathered her, to help carry on that stallion's traits >> if he >> was proven to be a more consisent winner. Inbreeding cannot be >> carried on for >> very long in horses though, any more than it can be carried on in >> humans -- >> which is why cousin to cousin marriages are discouraged. We know >> what had >> happened within some European monarchy when too close of marriages >> were >> carried out for too long; some sons and daughters developed >> madness. But here >> we're talking about the most highly evolved organism yet. You'd be >> hard-pressed to find such deterioration of genes in much lower life >> forms with >> inbreeding. As a "for instance," future queen bees and the drones >> (males) that >> mate with her all come from the save hive -- and all have the same >> genetic >> make up (even if the males have only half the compliment). >> >> Getting back to birds, while it may be impossible to see beforehand >> the >> defects that inbreeding may result in, I could guess right off hand >> that >> usually such defects are already the result of too much inbreeding >> before the >> unknowing breeder attempts inbreeding of them further. Indiscriminate >> inbreeding in birds (or fish) -- which is what I suspect on those >> occasions with the >> tumors and/or blindness you describe -- is at least or worse than >> indiscriminate outbreeding of dogs (in one wanted to retain the >> purebreds). >> >> Now, as for people getting your Ram fry, and their breeding these Ram >> siblings, as long as they are not breeding for more than the fifth >> generation >> (and as long as there are no defects in their genetic make-up -- which >> admittedly is next to impossible to know -- either way), no harm >> will be done and no >> deterioration of the organism will be manifested. For all YOU know, >> your >> pair MAY BE brother & sister! In fact, their parents and >> grandparents may >> have been bred as siblings to each other as successive generations >> without >> your knowing it. As long as there is no defective gene material >> within an >> organism's make-up, theoretically inbreeding can continue almost ad >> infinitum -- >> at least in the relatively short term of things. There is an African >> Killiefish (Scriptaphyosemion calibaricus -- now renamed, >> liberiensis) in the >> hobby that was first imported in the 1930's. This species is still >> in the >> hobby today -- As a result of continually breeding this SAME gene >> pool WITHOUT >> ANY new influx of new genetic material, AND there are NO DEFECTS in >> its >> genetic make-up. The number of generations that this same small >> closely related, >> captively-bred and limited gene-pooled fish has been continually >> bred since >> the 1930's is indeterminable and yet it's still going strong! I >> hope this >> allays some of your fears. Ray</HTML> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46373	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

I breed finches, Amber. Balding is common in finches. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I have never seen a parrot go bald without plucking it's own feather's > out (usually due to trauma of some sort, whether caused on purpose or > not). I have also never heard of parrot's going bald either, except > for > plucking in certain areas of their body. How odd. > I would never inbreed/linebreed my parrots anyways, but interesting to > know. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Ray, > > > > I very much appreciate all this information. I think the key for me > > is the lower life form aspect of fish, if you will, compared to > > birds. I have heard all these justifications for linebreeding > birds - > > about how you can't create problems that aren't already there > > genetically and so forth, and I know they are true. But, the problem > > with birds is that they look and seem fine for about a year or more, > > during which time the breeders sell them as perfectly healthy. The > > problems crop up way later, in the form of diseases and so on, > and no > > one ever knows it was from the breeding (except the breeder who > > doesn't admit it). The reason I know this is true is that I have > done > > it probably hundreds of times myself and I do pay close attention > > throughout the lifespan of the birds, which for me is about eight > > years. When you see cataracts showing up in one line, at four years > > old, over and over and over, well, that tells you something. Or, for > > example, I have an aviary full of birds from a "friend" who > > linebreeds, and every single one of them has gone bald in > adolescence > > (this will be permanent now) and I have taken them in to live out > > their lives here as a favor to my "friend". That's one aviary > where I > > can't place my own birds because it's full of unwanted stock. And > > there was no reason for them to have been produced in the first > > place. Obviously, I could go on and on. > > > > So I would probably have to see it to believe it with my own eyes in > > fish, that it is different. I would watch for diseases that crop up > > and shorten lifespans in certain lines, etc. But I am totally > > transferring my experience from the birds, and so my mind, if not > > open, is at least ajar when it comes to fish. > > > > I think for me, with my Rams, I will probably trade out some babies > > for some "new blood" at the fancy LFS where I got the parents, who I > > realize may well be siblings after all. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 6:47 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > >> Lainey, I can understand your pejudice regarding inbreeding, > >> especially as > >> concerns a more highly evolved organism (such as birds). Then too, > >> I don't > >> know how far (how many generations) some bird breeders allow this > >> inbreeding to go on. Naturally, the more that inbreeding is allowed > >> to go on, the > >> more concentrated will be any detrimental trait (if any) of the > >> species, and > >> the weaker the line of breeding will become as it is further > >> removed from the > >> genetic make-up of the species into a small gene-pool of its own. > >> > >> The detrimental effects of inbreeding will be expotentially > >> manifested as > >> the evolution of the species being inbred increases. That is to > >> say, the > >> higher evolved the organism, the more readily will become apparent > >> the effects > >> of inbreeding whether as an improvement or as a degradation of the > >> species > >> -- and quite often the concentrations of the genes of higher life > >> forms will > >> see the bad effects of such breeding as a result. The higher the > >> life form. > >> the sooner you'll see the results of the inbred concentrations > of the > >> genes. Birds are so much more advanced in the evolution of animals > >> than are > >> fish, and poor genetic make-up is soon seen from too much > >> inbreeding of them. > >> > >> Yet, a certain amount of inbreeding goes into keeping each of the > >> separate > >> "strains," or Breeds of dogs. We wouldn't have all these > separate dog > >> breeds if it weren't for inbreeding (fixing of the certain traits > >> we've developed > >> in them) -- and, if we bred dogs indiscriminately, we wouldn't have > >> all > >> these different breeds of dogs (Collies, German Shepards, Golden > >> Retrievers, > >> etc.). But when too much inbreeding goes on, like in these puppy > >> mills, the > >> young can wind up with all sorts of defects such as hip displasia. > >> > >> The same goes for fish. If we didn't inbreed, at least limitedly > in a > >> controlled manner, we would not have Red Swordtails, Black Mollies, > >> Hi-Fin > >> Platies, Half-Moon Bettas or Albino Paradise Fish. If we want to > >> continue lines > >> of man-made strains of our tropical and gold fish, we need to > >> continue their > >> lines via at least some inbreeding to retain their traits. > >> > >> Even race horses are sometimes inbred when breeding a daughter back > >> to the > >> stallion that fathered her, to help carry on that stallion's traits > >> if he > >> was proven to be a more consisent winner. Inbreeding cannot be > >> carried on for > >> very long in horses though, any more than it can be carried on in > >> humans -- > >> which is why cousin to cousin marriages are discouraged. We know > >> what had > >> happened within some European monarchy when too close of marriages > >> were > >> carried out for too long; some sons and daughters developed > >> madness. But here > >> we're talking about the most highly evolved organism yet. You'd be > >> hard-pressed to find such deterioration of genes in much lower life > >> forms with > >> inbreeding. As a "for instance," future queen bees and the drones > >> (males) that > >> mate with her all come from the save hive -- and all have the same > >> genetic > >> make up (even if the males have only half the compliment). > >> > >> Getting back to birds, while it may be impossible to see beforehand > >> the > >> defects that inbreeding may result in, I could guess right off hand > >> that > >> usually such defects are already the result of too much inbreeding > >> before the > >> unknowing breeder attempts inbreeding of them further. > Indiscriminate > >> inbreeding in birds (or fish) -- which is what I suspect on those > >> occasions with the > >> tumors and/or blindness you describe -- is at least or worse than > >> indiscriminate outbreeding of dogs (in one wanted to retain the > >> purebreds). > >> > >> Now, as for people getting your Ram fry, and their breeding > these Ram > >> siblings, as long as they are not breeding for more than the fifth > >> generation > >> (and as long as there are no defects in their genetic make-up -- > which > >> admittedly is next to impossible to know -- either way), no harm > >> will be done and no > >> deterioration of the organism will be manifested. For all YOU know, > >> your > >> pair MAY BE brother & sister! In fact, their parents and > >> grandparents may > >> have been bred as siblings to each other as successive generations > >> without > >> your knowing it. As long as there is no defective gene material > >> within an > >> organism's make-up, theoretically inbreeding can continue almost ad > >> infinitum -- > >> at least in the relatively short term of things. There is an > African > >> Killiefish (Scriptaphyosemion calibaricus -- now renamed, > >> liberiensis) in the > >> hobby that was first imported in the 1930's. This species is still > >> in the > >> hobby today -- As a result of continually breeding this SAME gene > >> pool WITHOUT > >> ANY new influx of new genetic material, AND there are NO DEFECTS in > >> its > >> genetic make-up. The number of generations that this same small > >> closely related, > >> captively-bred and limited gene-pooled fish has been continually > >> bred since > >> the 1930's is indeterminable and yet it's still going strong! I > >> hope this > >> allays some of your fears. Ray</HTML> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46374	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

OH! well that makes more sense, LOL. I have Sun Conures myself (small parrots, noisy little guys too). Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I breed finches, Amber. Balding is common in finches. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> I have never seen a parrot go bald without plucking it's own feather's >> out (usually due to trauma of some sort, whether caused on purpose or >> not). I have also never heard of parrot's going bald either, except >> for >> plucking in certain areas of their body. How odd. >> I would never inbreed/linebreed my parrots anyways, but interesting to >> know. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Ray, >>> >>> I very much appreciate all this information. I think the key for me >>> is the lower life form aspect of fish, if you will, compared to >>> birds. I have heard all these justifications for linebreeding >>> >> birds - >> >>> about how you can't create problems that aren't already there >>> genetically and so forth, and I know they are true. But, the problem >>> with birds is that they look and seem fine for about a year or more, >>> during which time the breeders sell them as perfectly healthy. The >>> problems crop up way later, in the form of diseases and so on, >>> >> and no >> >>> one ever knows it was from the breeding (except the breeder who >>> doesn't admit it). The reason I know this is true is that I have >>> >> done >> >>> it probably hundreds of times myself and I do pay close attention >>> throughout the lifespan of the birds, which for me is about eight >>> years. When you see cataracts showing up in one line, at four years >>> old, over and over and over, well, that tells you something. Or, for >>> example, I have an aviary full of birds from a "friend" who >>> linebreeds, and every single one of them has gone bald in >>> >> adolescence >> >>> (this will be permanent now) and I have taken them in to live out >>> their lives here as a favor to my "friend". That's one aviary >>> >> where I >> >>> can't place my own birds because it's full of unwanted stock. And >>> there was no reason for them to have been produced in the first >>> place. Obviously, I could go on and on. >>> >>> So I would probably have to see it to believe it with my own eyes in >>> fish, that it is different. I would watch for diseases that crop up >>> and shorten lifespans in certain lines, etc. But I am totally >>> transferring my experience from the birds, and so my mind, if not >>> open, is at least ajar when it comes to fish. >>> >>> I think for me, with my Rams, I will probably trade out some babies >>> for some "new blood" at the fancy LFS where I got the parents, who I >>> realize may well be siblings after all. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 6:47 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Lainey, I can understand your pejudice regarding inbreeding, >>>> especially as >>>> concerns a more highly evolved organism (such as birds). Then too, >>>> I don't >>>> know how far (how many generations) some bird breeders allow this >>>> inbreeding to go on. Naturally, the more that inbreeding is allowed >>>> to go on, the >>>> more concentrated will be any detrimental trait (if any) of the >>>> species, and >>>> the weaker the line of breeding will become as it is further >>>> removed from the >>>> genetic make-up of the species into a small gene-pool of its own. >>>> >>>> The detrimental effects of inbreeding will be expotentially >>>> manifested as >>>> the evolution of the species being inbred increases. That is to >>>> say, the >>>> higher evolved the organism, the more readily will become apparent >>>> the effects >>>> of inbreeding whether as an improvement or as a degradation of the >>>> species >>>> -- and quite often the concentrations of the genes of higher life >>>> forms will >>>> see the bad effects of such breeding as a result. The higher the >>>> life form. >>>> the sooner you'll see the results of the inbred concentrations >>>> >> of the >> >>>> genes. Birds are so much more advanced in the evolution of animals >>>> than are >>>> fish, and poor genetic make-up is soon seen from too much >>>> inbreeding of them. >>>> >>>> Yet, a certain amount of inbreeding goes into keeping each of the >>>> separate >>>> "strains," or Breeds of dogs. We wouldn't have all these >>>> >> separate dog >> >>>> breeds if it weren't for inbreeding (fixing of the certain traits >>>> we've developed >>>> in them) -- and, if we bred dogs indiscriminately, we wouldn't have >>>> all >>>> these different breeds of dogs (Collies, German Shepards, Golden >>>> Retrievers, >>>> etc.). But when too much inbreeding goes on, like in these puppy >>>> mills, the >>>> young can wind up with all sorts of defects such as hip displasia. >>>> >>>> The same goes for fish. If we didn't inbreed, at least limitedly >>>> >> in a >> >>>> controlled manner, we would not have Red Swordtails, Black Mollies, >>>> Hi-Fin >>>> Platies, Half-Moon Bettas or Albino Paradise Fish. If we want to >>>> continue lines >>>> of man-made strains of our tropical and gold fish, we need to >>>> continue their >>>> lines via at least some inbreeding to retain their traits. >>>> >>>> Even race horses are sometimes inbred when breeding a daughter back >>>> to the >>>> stallion that fathered her, to help carry on that stallion's traits >>>> if he >>>> was proven to be a more consisent winner. Inbreeding cannot be >>>> carried on for >>>> very long in horses though, any more than it can be carried on in >>>> humans -- >>>> which is why cousin to cousin marriages are discouraged. We know >>>> what had >>>> happened within some European monarchy when too close of marriages >>>> were >>>> carried out for too long; some sons and daughters developed >>>> madness. But here >>>> we're talking about the most highly evolved organism yet. You'd be >>>> hard-pressed to find such deterioration of genes in much lower life >>>> forms with >>>> inbreeding. As a "for instance," future queen bees and the drones >>>> (males) that >>>> mate with her all come from the save hive -- and all have the same >>>> genetic >>>> make up (even if the males have only half the compliment). >>>> >>>> Getting back to birds, while it may be impossible to see beforehand >>>> the >>>> defects that inbreeding may result in, I could guess right off hand >>>> that >>>> usually such defects are already the result of too much inbreeding >>>> before the >>>> unknowing breeder attempts inbreeding of them further. >>>> >> Indiscriminate >> >>>> inbreeding in birds (or fish) -- which is what I suspect on those >>>> occasions with the >>>> tumors and/or blindness you describe -- is at least or worse than >>>> indiscriminate outbreeding of dogs (in one wanted to retain the >>>> purebreds). >>>> >>>> Now, as for people getting your Ram fry, and their breeding >>>> >> these Ram >> >>>> siblings, as long as they are not breeding for more than the fifth >>>> generation >>>> (and as long as there are no defects in their genetic make-up -- >>>> >> which >> >>>> admittedly is next to impossible to know -- either way), no harm >>>> will be done and no >>>> deterioration of the organism will be manifested. For all YOU know, >>>> your >>>> pair MAY BE brother & sister! In fact, their parents and >>>> grandparents may >>>> have been bred as siblings to each other as successive generations >>>> without >>>> your knowing it. As long as there is no defective gene material >>>> within an >>>> organism's make-up, theoretically inbreeding can continue almost ad >>>> infinitum -- >>>> at least in the relatively short term of things. There is an >>>> >> African >> >>>> Killiefish (Scriptaphyosemion calibaricus -- now renamed, >>>> liberiensis) in the >>>> hobby that was first imported in the 1930's. This species is still >>>> in the >>>> hobby today -- As a result of continually breeding this SAME gene >>>> pool WITHOUT >>>> ANY new influx of new genetic material, AND there are NO DEFECTS in >>>> its >>>> genetic make-up. The number of generations that this same small >>>> closely related, >>>> captively-bred and limited gene-pooled fish has been continually >>>> bred since >>>> the 1930's is indeterminable and yet it's still going strong! I >>>> hope this >>>> allays some of your fears. Ray</HTML> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46375	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Injury on cory

I think one of my albino aeneus cory's injured itself on one of the tank ornaments, has some red lines along one side of it's body. I was thinking I should add a little salt to the tank to help promote healing, will that be bad for my mystery snails/cherry shrimp? I know cory's don't like salt, but I figured a little bit would help it heal faster. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46376	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/29/2010
Subject: Re: Injury on cory

Not really. A little salt does very little, other than when used to protect against nitrite poisoning. This is a common mistake that many newbie's make by adding a little salt to their water all the time. It simply doesn't do any good and may cause more harm than good for fish that have osmoregulatory issues related to the salt. I would just keep water quality up by doing more frequent PWC's for the next week or two... maybe daily or as often as you can... unless you can catch the little guy and move him to a treatment tank and then I'd probably just go with Melafix and still just keep an eye on the injury. A minor injury is just that... a minor injury. A healthy fish will be able to heal itself without any problems. The biggest concern is keeping down any chance of infection by keeping the water clean. Of course, red lines can also be caused by other things. If they are nearly straight where it looks like it side-swiped something, that is probably an injury like you suspect but other red-lining can be caused by bacterial issues so keep an eye on the *injury*. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Injury on cory I think one of my albino aeneus cory's injured itself on one of the tank ornaments, has some red lines along one side of it's body. I was thinking I should add a little salt to the tank to help promote healing, will that be bad for my mystery snails/cherry shrimp? I know cory's don't like salt, but I figured a little bit would help it heal faster. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46377	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

Lainey, I pretty much concur with what Ray has said here about breeding closely related fish. Such breeding does have its drawbacks, as you indicate in your experience with birds, with certain varieties of fish being more "fragile" than other varieties of the same species. In nature, some of these varieties would not survive, perhaps not survive to the age of breeding, or, perhaps, not survive long enough to produce many young to carry on their traits. For example, black mollies are more prone to developing melanoma, a cancer, which shortens their lifespan. Most fancy goldfish cannot survive the lower temperatures within the normal goldfish's range. When you start to concentrate genes, you not only concentrate those you want, but those you do not wish to have that are likely to cause deformities, or poorer health. Serious breeders will try to alleviate this by using various methods. One is out-crossing to fish that are not, apparently, related to the strain under development or being maintained. Back-crossing is also used, breeding father to daughter, for example. They may also keep two or more lines exhibiting the same desirable characteristics, and cross those from time to time, in the effort to remove undesirable genes. Of course, during the whole process, there is extensive culling going on. The culls are those fish that do not strongly exhibit the traits being bred for, those that show deformities, and those that just show a general weakness. Some of these culls are saleable, while others are just food for other fish. A breeder and a fish such as an oscar can become very good buddies <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 11:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Inbreeding Hi Everyone - I am not sure how bad it is to allow fish like Rams, in particular, to inbreed? If my babies go out to other homes and breed to one another, isn't that going to be a problem for their babies? I'm not a big fan of inbreeding in general, so am wondering where my responsibility lies with these Ram fry. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46378	From: Noura	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Fish Foods

Hi, I have a variety of fish foods, and a variety of fish! Now the delimma if figure out what to feed to whom, and how many times aweek. Your help is needed here. Fish speices in the community tanks: Tank1 : I feed these ONCE aday: Angels, Tetra, Zebra Danio, CAE, and 2 guest Clown Loaches soon to go back to their loving owner ( about 3 weeks from now). Tank2: I feed these 2-3 times aday: Betta, small corydoras, and guppy fry (not so 'fry' anymore). Foods: Blood worms (freezedried), whole Shrimp (freezedried), sinking sardine pellets, Tubifex cubes(freezedried), Flake food (Ingredients: High class fish meal, plant astaxanthin, animal proteins, soya meal, cereals, fish oil, multi vitamins and trace element), floating granules that I don't know what they contain exactly but they're supposed to be high quality and for all tropical fish, Green Peas (frozen fresh). I occasionally throw finely chopped letuce, but with no mollies around there isn't huge enthusiasm about this treat. There are no FROZEN fish foods here, neither live foods, only freeze dried. You see I have been buying all sorts of foods except for those addressing a single species (like cichlids, goldfish, etc..) thinking that it would be better to feed my fish varient foods. I have a feeling that I'm too crowded with protein rich foods, and don't know how often should I use them. I'm also considering making my own homemade vegetable rich fish food, but don't know how much gelatin do I need.. have bulk powdered gelatin and I don't want to keep trying different amounts and throwing spoiled fish meals in the trash. Any advise? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46379	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

Try Green cheek conures. The "quiet Conure". I breed normal, yellow sided, and pineapples. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jan 29, 2010 6:36 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Inbreeding   OH! well that makes more sense, LOL. I have Sun Conures myself (small parrots, noisy little guys too). Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I breed finches, Amber. Balding is common in finches. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> I have never seen a parrot go bald without plucking it's own feather's >> out (usually due to trauma of some sort, whether caused on purpose or >> not). I have also never heard of parrot's going bald either, except >> for >> plucking in certain areas of their body. How odd. >> I would never inbreed/linebreed my parrots anyways, but interesting to >> know. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Ray, >>> >>> I very much appreciate all this information. I think the key for me >>> is the lower life form aspect of fish, if you will, compared to >>> birds. I have heard all these justifications for linebreeding >>> >> birds - >> >>> about how you can't create problems that aren't already there >>> genetically and so forth, and I know they are true. But, the problem >>> with birds is that they look and seem fine for about a year or more, >>> during which time the breeders sell them as perfectly healthy. The >>> problems crop up way later, in the form of diseases and so on, >>> >> and no >> >>> one ever knows it was from the breeding (except the breeder who >>> doesn't admit it). The reason I know this is true is that I have >>> >> done >> >>> it probably hundreds of times myself and I do pay close attention >>> throughout the lifespan of the birds, which for me is about eight >>> years. When you see cataracts showing up in one line, at four years >>> old, over and over and over, well, that tells you something. Or, for >>> example, I have an aviary full of birds from a "friend" who >>> linebreeds, and every single one of them has gone bald in >>> >> adolescence >> >>> (this will be permanent now) and I have taken them in to live out >>> their lives here as a favor to my "friend". That's one aviary >>> >> where I >> >>> can't place my own birds because it's full of unwanted stock. And >>> there was no reason for them to have been produced in the first >>> place. Obviously, I could go on and on. >>> >>> So I would probably have to see it to believe it with my own eyes in >>> fish, that it is different. I would watch for diseases that crop up >>> and shorten lifespans in certain lines, etc. But I am totally >>> transferring my experience from the birds, and so my mind, if not >>> open, is at least ajar when it comes to fish. >>> >>> I think for me, with my Rams, I will probably trade out some babies >>> for some "new blood" at the fancy LFS where I got the parents, who I >>> realize may well be siblings after all. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 6:47 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Lainey, I can understand your pejudice regarding inbreeding, >>>> especially as >>>> concerns a more highly evolved organism (such as birds). Then too, >>>> I don't >>>> know how far (how many generations) some bird breeders allow this >>>> inbreeding to go on. Naturally, the more that inbreeding is allowed >>>> to go on, the >>>> more concentrated will be any detrimental trait (if any) of the >>>> species, and >>>> the weaker the line of breeding will become as it is further >>>> removed from the >>>> genetic make-up of the species into a small gene-pool of its own. >>>> >>>> The detrimental effects of inbreeding will be expotentially >>>> manifested as >>>> the evolution of the species being inbred increases. That is to >>>> say, the >>>> higher evolved the organism, the more readily will become apparent >>>> the effects >>>> of inbreeding whether as an improvement or as a degradation of the >>>> species >>>> -- and quite often the concentrations of the genes of higher life >>>> forms will >>>> see the bad effects of such breeding as a result. The higher the >>>> life form. >>>> the sooner you'll see the results of the inbred concentrations >>>> >> of the >> >>>> genes. Birds are so much more advanced in the evolution of animals >>>> than are >>>> fish, and poor genetic make-up is soon seen from too much >>>> inbreeding of them. >>>> >>>> Yet, a certain amount of inbreeding goes into keeping each of the >>>> separate >>>> "strains," or Breeds of dogs. We wouldn't have all these >>>> >> separate dog >> >>>> breeds if it weren't for inbreeding (fixing of the certain traits >>>> we've developed >>>> in them) -- and, if we bred dogs indiscriminately, we wouldn't have >>>> all >>>> these different breeds of dogs (Collies, German Shepards, Golden >>>> Retrievers, >>>> etc.). But when too much inbreeding goes on, like in these puppy >>>> mills, the >>>> young can wind up with all sorts of defects such as hip displasia. >>>> >>>> The same goes for fish. If we didn't inbreed, at least limitedly >>>> >> in a >> >>>> controlled manner, we would not have Red Swordtails, Black Mollies, >>>> Hi-Fin >>>> Platies, Half-Moon Bettas or Albino Paradise Fish. If we want to >>>> continue lines >>>> of man-made strains of our tropical and gold fish, we need to >>>> continue their >>>> lines via at least some inbreeding to retain their traits. >>>> >>>> Even race horses are sometimes inbred when breeding a daughter back >>>> to the >>>> stallion that fathered her, to help carry on that stallion's traits >>>> if he >>>> was proven to be a more consisent winner. Inbreeding cannot be >>>> carried on for >>>> very long in horses though, any more than it can be carried on in >>>> humans -- >>>> which is why cousin to cousin marriages are discouraged. We know >>>> what had >>>> happened within some European monarchy when too close of marriages >>>> were >>>> carried out for too long; some sons and daughters developed >>>> madness. But here >>>> we're talking about the most highly evolved organism yet. You'd be >>>> hard-pressed to find such deterioration of genes in much lower life >>>> forms with >>>> inbreeding. As a "for instance," future queen bees and the drones >>>> (males) that >>>> mate with her all come from the save hive -- and all have the same >>>> genetic >>>> make up (even if the males have only half the compliment). >>>> >>>> Getting back to birds, while it may be impossible to see beforehand >>>> the >>>> defects that inbreeding may result in, I could guess right off hand >>>> that >>>> usually such defects are already the result of too much inbreeding >>>> before the >>>> unknowing breeder attempts inbreeding of them further. >>>> >> Indiscriminate >> >>>> inbreeding in birds (or fish) -- which is what I suspect on those >>>> occasions with the >>>> tumors and/or blindness you describe -- is at least or worse than >>>> indiscriminate outbreeding of dogs (in one wanted to retain the >>>> purebreds). >>>> >>>> Now, as for people getting your Ram fry, and their breeding >>>> >> these Ram >> >>>> siblings, as long as they are not breeding for more than the fifth >>>> generation >>>> (and as long as there are no defects in their genetic make-up -- >>>> >> which >> >>>> admittedly is next to impossible to know -- either way), no harm >>>> will be done and no >>>> deterioration of the organism will be manifested. For all YOU know, >>>> your >>>> pair MAY BE brother & sister! In fact, their parents and >>>> grandparents may >>>> have been bred as siblings to each other as successive generations >>>> without >>>> your knowing it. As long as there is no defective gene material >>>> within an >>>> organism's make-up, theoretically inbreeding can continue almost ad >>>> infinitum -- >>>> at least in the relatively short term of things. There is an >>>> >> African >> >>>> Killiefish (Scriptaphyosemion calibaricus -- now renamed, >>>> liberiensis) in the >>>> hobby that was first imported in the 1930's. This species is still >>>> in the >>>> hobby today -- As a result of continually breeding this SAME gene >>>> pool WITHOUT >>>> ANY new influx of new genetic material, AND there are NO DEFECTS in >>>> its >>>> genetic make-up. The number of generations that this same small >>>> closely related, >>>> captively-bred and limited gene-pooled fish has been continually >>>> bred since >>>> the 1930's is indeterminable and yet it's still going strong! I >>>> hope this >>>> allays some of your fears. Ray</HTML> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46380	From: calvinator@verizon.net	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: new member

I'm new to the list. Currently we do not have any aquatic life, but have owned an empty 90gal for many years. Just not been able to set it up. I've kept a variety of specimens during my earlier years. Guppies to Frontosa to Achilles Tang(not for very long). Looking to set this 90gal up as a primarily a plant tank with maybe some corys and Cardinal tetras. Looking for ideas and suggestions from those who have been there and done that. I have 2 light fixtures that each hold 4 compact florescents (21" bulbs, I think). Basically have nothing else. Looking for info on filtration, CO2, substrate, hardy plants species, anything that you think my help success. Thanks Calvin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46381	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: new member

Welcome to AquaticLife! What is the pH of your tap water, those species like it pretty soft I think. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of calvinator@... Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new member I'm new to the list. Currently we do not have any aquatic life, but have owned an empty 90gal for many years. Just not been able to set it up. I've kept a variety of specimens during my earlier years. Guppies to Frontosa to Achilles Tang(not for very long). Looking to set this 90gal up as a primarily a plant tank with maybe some corys and Cardinal tetras. Looking for ideas and suggestions from those who have been there and done that. I have 2 light fixtures that each hold 4 compact florescents (21" bulbs, I think). Basically have nothing else. Looking for info on filtration, CO2, substrate, hardy plants species, anything that you think my help success. Thanks Calvin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46382	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Inbreeding

Just lurking but wnated to chime in that I agree with Ray, too. And, after all, this is how my albino blue-eyed long-finned bristlenose pleco came to be. We'll see how he/she grows up. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Lenny and Lainey, There is ABSOLUTELTY nothing wrong with inbreeding to a > small controlled degree. After all, this is how mutations that we consider > as enhancements are "fixed" as a strain --

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46383	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: new member

Welcome back Calvin. I've had bad luck with tanks that have been stored for years. Even with bleaching and salt baths the tanks seem to have become "killer" tanks, and I cannot keep a thing in them. However, your mileage may vary, so give it a try before you run out and buy a new tank based on my experience alone. Just be a bit cautious with using the old tank. If you appear to be having the same problem, don't waste your time, as I did, just go out and get yourself a new tank, maybe an even larger one <g>. You might want to spend some time perusing and searching the archives, at least as well as Yahoo lets you, since you can find many threads on just the topics you wish more information on. Feel free to ask any questions you like and you'll probably get better responses than you will to such a general post as you have placed here. Your first step is to check the tank for leaks that may have developed while it was in storage. Set the tank up in a level area where leaking water will not be harmful. Fill the tank about 25% full, and let it sit for a time. Fill it to the half way mark and let it sit, and so on to determine if it has any leaks. If it does, you will need to either reseal the tank or get a new one, depending on your mood <g>. and your talents. If it does not leak, add some bleach to the water and let it sit at least overnight for the bleach to do its thing, and then empty and thoroughly rinse the tank. If there are dirty spots, wash thoroughly with water and bleach, then follow up with a salt and water mixture. You'll probably find it necessary to clean the outside of the tank as well. Stay away from household cleansers that contain detergent, soap, and/or ammonia. Having said that, you might want to use a window cleaner to clean the outside of the tank. To do so, spray the cleaner on a paper towel or cloth, and then clean the outside of the glass. Do be careful that none of the cleanser gets to the inside of the tank. I have found this method to be very useful to clean water spotting and such from the outside of tanks. Once you are done with all this cleaning, it is time to move the tank to its permanent location, and commence the setup phase. If you are going to have a planted tank, i.e. more than a cursory planting, the choice of your substrate is more important. Others here have more experience with this than I do, and I'll let them feel free to hop in here with their helpful hints, or you can start a new thread with this topic. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of calvinator@... Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new member I'm new to the list. Currently we do not have any aquatic life, but have owned an empty 90gal for many years. Just not been able to set it up. I've kept a variety of specimens during my earlier years. Guppies to Frontosa to Achilles Tang(not for very long). Looking to set this 90gal up as a primarily a plant tank with maybe some corys and Cardinal tetras. Looking for ideas and suggestions from those who have been there and done that. I have 2 light fixtures that each hold 4 compact florescents (21" bulbs, I think). Basically have nothing else. Looking for info on filtration, CO2, substrate, hardy plants species, anything that you think my help success. Thanks Calvin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46384	From: Noura	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Plants jumping in?

Hi, I just purchased some small live plants, they're still in the bag, I added some water from the tank and put the bag on top of the tank hood (where it's warm enough). Should I do anything other than washing under tap water before letting them "jump in" into the gravel? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46385	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in?

Jump in? When they do this, can you please shoot a movie and put it on You tube. LOL! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noura" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants jumping in? Hi, I just purchased some small live plants, they're still in the bag, I added some water from the tank and put the bag on top of the tank hood (where it's warm enough). Should I do anything other than washing under tap water before letting them "jump in" into the gravel? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46386	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: About Shipping?

I'd like to know all about shipping live fish. How is it done?  What size and type of box is needed? What size of fish?  How many in each bag?  How many bags to a box?  What is used in bags Oxygen or Plain Air.  How much water to each bag? Finally the Best and most reasonable?- Fed Ex overnight price US, about $70.00 per box?   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46387	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?

What size and type of box is needed? Corrugated, big enough to accommodate the bags. Lining that is Styrofoam like a cooler. What size of fish? Depends on whether you sold juveniles or sexed fish, etc. How many in each bag? Depends on the fish. One/bag for aggressive fish like Pseudotropheus demasoni. How many bags to a box? I’ve had one and I’ve had eight. Depends on the above answers. What is used in bags Oxygen or Plain Air. Professionals use oxygen, hobbyists use air. How much water to each bag? Depends on the bag. Breather bag, fill it up. Regular bag 1/3 water and double bag. Finally the Best and most reasonable?- Fed Ex overnight price US, about $70.00 per box? Air cargo with buyer picking up at the airport. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:15 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? I'd like to know all about shipping live fish. How is it done? What size and type of box is needed? What size of fish? How many in each bag? How many bags to a box? What is used in bags Oxygen or Plain Air. How much water to each bag? Finally the Best and most reasonable?- Fed Ex overnight price US, about $70.00 per box? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46388	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in?

OK, now I have this mental image of plants in small bags working themselves to the edge of the hood kind of like the fish on Finding Nemo. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noura" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants jumping in? Hi, I just purchased some small live plants, they're still in the bag, I added some water from the tank and put the bag on top of the tank hood (where it's warm enough). Should I do anything other than washing under tap water before letting them "jump in" into the gravel? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46389	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?

I'd like ot know where are good places to order fish from. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:14 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? I'd like to know all about shipping live fish. How is it done? What size and type of box is needed? What size of fish? How many in each bag? How many bags to a box? What is used in bags Oxygen or Plain Air. How much water to each bag? Finally the Best and most reasonable?- Fed Ex overnight price US, about $70.00 per box? Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46390	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?

Hi Dora, Right now we're just trying to figure how to get them here alive. Bill --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 4:35 PM > I'd like ot know where are good > places to order fish from. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@...> > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:14 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > > > I'd like to know all about shipping live fish. > How is it done? What size and type of box is needed? > What size of fish? How many in each bag? How many bags > to a box? What is used in bags Oxygen or Plain Air. How > much water to each > bag?  Finally the Best and most reasonable?- Fed Ex > overnight price US, > about $70.00 per box? > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46391	From: harry perry	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?/Bill

Where do you live?. Harry --- On Sat, 1/30/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 5:01 PM   Hi Dora, Right now we're just trying to figure how to get them here alive. Bill --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 4:35 PM > I'd like ot know where are good > places to order fish from. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:14 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > > > I'd like to know all about shipping live fish. > How is it done? What size and type of box is needed? > What size of fish? How many in each bag? How many bags > to a box? What is used in bags Oxygen or Plain Air. How > much water to each > bag?  Finally the Best and most reasonable?- Fed Ex > overnight price US, > about $70.00 per box? > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46392	From: bill 1433	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?/Bill

Northeastern PA Bill --- On Sat, 1/30/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping?/Bill > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 5:09 PM > Where do you live?. > > Harry > > --- On Sat, 1/30/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 5:01 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > >   > > >     >       >       >       Hi Dora, > > > > Right now we're just trying to figure how to get them > > here alive. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ > yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 4:35 PM > > > I'd like ot know where are good > > > places to order fish from. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > > > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:14 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > > > > > > > > > I'd like to know all about shipping live fish. > > > How is it done? What size and type of box is needed? > > > What size of fish? How many in each bag? How many > bags > > > to a box? What is used in bags Oxygen or Plain Air. > How > > > much water to each > > > bag?  Finally the Best and most reasonable?- Fed > Ex > > > overnight price US, > > > about $70.00 per box? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     >       > >     >     > > > > > > >   > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46393	From: harry perry	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?/Bill

I live in Harleysville Pa.. Harry --- On Sat, 1/30/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping?/Bill To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 5:13 PM   Northeastern PA Bill --- On Sat, 1/30/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> wrote: > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping?/Bill > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 5:09 PM > Where do you live?. > > Harry > > --- On Sat, 1/30/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > wrote: > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 5:01 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > >   > > >     >       >       >       Hi Dora, > > > > Right now we're just trying to figure how to get them > > here alive. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ > yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 4:35 PM > > > I'd like ot know where are good > > > places to order fish from. > > > > > > Yours, > > > Dora Smith > > > Austin, TX > > > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > > > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:14 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > > > > > > > > > I'd like to know all about shipping live fish. > > > How is it done? What size and type of box is needed? > > > What size of fish? How many in each bag? How many > bags > > > to a box? What is used in bags Oxygen or Plain Air. > How > > > much water to each > > > bag?  Finally the Best and most reasonable?- Fed > Ex > > > overnight price US, > > > about $70.00 per box? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > > NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group > and > > > post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     >       > >     >     > > > > > > >   > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46394	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?/Bill

I live in Austin. I want a kind of tetra the fish shops around here don't carry. Plus the danios in the city seem to ahve been hit by an epidemic of something. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping?/Bill Where do you live?. Harry --- On Sat, 1/30/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 5:01 PM Hi Dora, Right now we're just trying to figure how to get them here alive. Bill --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@ yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 4:35 PM > I'd like ot know where are good > places to order fish from. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@ yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bill 1433" <warrenprint@ yahoo.com> > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:14 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] About Shipping? > > > I'd like to know all about shipping live fish. > How is it done? What size and type of box is needed? > What size of fish? How many in each bag? How many bags > to a box? What is used in bags Oxygen or Plain Air. How > much water to each > bag? Finally the Best and most reasonable?- Fed Ex > overnight price US, > about $70.00 per box? > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46395	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?

I don't know if he sells fish. But I just got 24 japanese trap door snails from mr_bullfrogs_aquatic_critters (eBay seller name). Shipping was included in the price and he sent me big snails, they are all doing good so far ( 3 gays after arrival) and thou they are going to be in the pond, I'm enjoying them in the 55 gal. for now. As big as my mystery snails... golf ball sized. Enid Oh yes, his website is www.mrbullfrog.com In a message dated 1/30/2010 3:52:36 P.M. Central Standard Time, tiggernut24@... writes: I'd like ot know where are good places to order fish from. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46396	From: Gwydryn@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?

OMG! talk about a Freudian slip! Enid I don't know if they are gay! In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:27:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, Gwydryn@... writes: 3 gays after arrival) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46397	From: Noura	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in

NO WAY! That's exactly what I was visualizing when I chose this expression in the title! Funnier than that, is the fact that several people made jokes about the poor plants but no one actually told me what to do with them! You know they're still in the bag, but now floating IN the tank because I turn the lights off at night which makes the hood top cold. NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION GUYS! It's Sunday! [Should I do anything other than washing under tap water before letting them "jump in" into the gravel?] Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants jumping in? OK, now I have this mental image of plants in small bags working themselves to the edge of the hood kind of like the fish on Finding Nemo. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noura" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants jumping in? Hi, I just purchased some small live plants, they're still in the bag, I added some water from the tank and put the bag on top of the tank hood (where it's warm enough). Should I do anything other than washing under tap water before letting them "jump in" into the gravel? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46398	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in

I you want to ensure they will not bring snails, there are chemical dips you want to use. I don’t know the ingredients or proportions off the top of my head, Ray usually chimes in. Some people actually quarantine plants. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants jumping in NO WAY! That's exactly what I was visualizing when I chose this expression in the title! Funnier than that, is the fact that several people made jokes about the poor plants but no one actually told me what to do with them! You know they're still in the bag, but now floating IN the tank because I turn the lights off at night which makes the hood top cold. NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION GUYS! It's Sunday! [Should I do anything other than washing under tap water before letting them "jump in" into the gravel?] Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Menagerie_Manager To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants jumping in? OK, now I have this mental image of plants in small bags working themselves to the edge of the hood kind of like the fish on Finding Nemo. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noura" <n-taweel@scs- <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> net.org> To: <AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants jumping in? Hi, I just purchased some small live plants, they're still in the bag, I added some water from the tank and put the bag on top of the tank hood (where it's warm enough). Should I do anything other than washing under tap water before letting them "jump in" into the gravel? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46399	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in

Hi Noura, I'll start this off by saying -- To ensure your plants don't carry in snails to your tank (unless you don't mind having them), soak the plants in a solution of Alum (Aulminum Sulfate) which you should be able to find in the pickling and spice section of your market. Alum is by far the safest agent you can use for disinfecting plants of what are sometimes viewed as pests. Use 1 to 2 Tablespoons of Alum per gallon and allow the plants to soak at least overnight -- or up into the following day if you still see any activity of these intruders. Rinse them well after removing them. The next safest plant disinfecting agent you can use it Potassium Permanganate, an oxidizer which will kill off most any bacteria, fungus, and/or other small organism. A warning though -- as this is a purple dye medication, it will stain anything it comes in contact with, including your clothes, your rugs or your hands so you need to be careful of spilling it or getting it on your hands. You may not even be able to find it in your LFS, but if you can, with no certain measurement add enough to the water in your disinfecting container to turn the water a DARK pink, and let the plants soak for 20 minutes. Rinse them well after removing them. An extremely effect way of disinfecting plants is to use regular chlorine bleach (bottled most often at 5% solution), adding 1 part of this bottled chlorine solution to 19 parts of water. Before going any further, I need to tell you that not all plants will tolerate this bath equally, and a few may not tolerate it at all. In general, plants are allowed to soak in this solution for between 2 and 3 minutes -- with tougher-leaved plants such as Anubias or Sagittaria easily tolerating the 3 minutes, and medium-leaved plants needing to be removed closer to the 2 minute limit. Some more delicate leaved plants such as Vallisneria or Anacharis may not tolerate much more than a minute -- if at all! I would not trust Crytps to this solution for any length of time either. A bucket of fresh water containing a dechlorinator should be kept on hand and used immediately for the plants as soon as they're removed. Whenever using this chlorine solution for disinfecting plants, NEVER allow the roots to be immersed. Then, rinse them well after removing As I'll be away for several hours now, maybe someone else can add to any further inquiries you may have on this as I won't be available for the rest of the morning here (next 3 hours) in Eastern U.S.A. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46400	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods

Fry get 4-5 small feedings a day. Juvis get 3-4 feedings a day. I feed my adult fish twice a day, occasionally once a day or even skipping an entire day but most of the time, twice a day. If you have all stages of fish in a single tank, then you have to feed the fry five times a day and depending on how much the larger fish are going after the fry food, you may have to just feed enough so the fry get their fair share and just consider these feedings as the juvi and adult fishes normal feedings and do not feed them any other foods the rest of the day. You could also try feeding the adults first so they are not as hungry when you feed the fry for two of their meals so the fry are at least getting a better chance at food for two meals. You should consider growing some of your own live foods since you don't have those options... I know... as if you don't have enough to do already! :-P http://fish.mongabay.com/food.htm (top area lists common live foods for fish and further down lists some DIY micro foods for feeding your fry) http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html (info on culturing your own worms) These next three articles have links to culturing most other live foods. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/live-food.htm http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishfood/ http://www.algone.com/livefood.php Here are some DIY Gel Food Recipes. Stick to the recipes as some other fruits and veggies will cause the gelatin to NOT gel as Amber and I have recently learned. LOL http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php Here's some articles that someone else recently posted about using unflavored gelatin and also some foods that will mess up Jello but these are mostly fruits but I'm sure some veggies do the same thing. http://www.baking911.com/howto/gelatin.htm http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodcookingchemistry/a/foods-that-ruin-jell-o. htm Other fresh foods that can be used are things like green pea *meat* (pinch the skin and let the two halves fall into the water), sliced and blanching Zucchini, cucumber, broccoli florets, etc. I've seen posts of folks feeding their goldfish all sorts of fruits and veggies and many other omnivores and herbivores and I'm sure some carnivores would also like these types of foods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Hi, I have a variety of fish foods, and a variety of fish! Now the delimma if figure out what to feed to whom, and how many times aweek. Your help is needed here. Fish speices in the community tanks: Tank1 : I feed these ONCE aday: Angels, Tetra, Zebra Danio, CAE, and 2 guest Clown Loaches soon to go back to their loving owner ( about 3 weeks from now). Tank2: I feed these 2-3 times aday: Betta, small corydoras, and guppy fry (not so 'fry' anymore). Foods: Blood worms (freezedried), whole Shrimp (freezedried), sinking sardine pellets, Tubifex cubes(freezedried), Flake food (Ingredients: High class fish meal, plant astaxanthin, animal proteins, soya meal, cereals, fish oil, multi vitamins and trace element), floating granules that I don't know what they contain exactly but they're supposed to be high quality and for all tropical fish, Green Peas (frozen fresh). I occasionally throw finely chopped letuce, but with no mollies around there isn't huge enthusiasm about this treat. There are no FROZEN fish foods here, neither live foods, only freeze dried. You see I have been buying all sorts of foods except for those addressing a single species (like cichlids, goldfish, etc..) thinking that it would be better to feed my fish varient foods. I have a feeling that I'm too crowded with protein rich foods, and don't know how often should I use them. I'm also considering making my own homemade vegetable rich fish food, but don't know how much gelatin do I need.. have bulk powdered gelatin and I don't want to keep trying different amounts and throwing spoiled fish meals in the trash. Any advise? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46401	From: Noura	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods

Thanks Lenny, these are tons of practical information. The big tank contains mostly juvis, with one exception : Tetras. The guppy tank contains juvis and some fry, only one adult Betta. If I'm feeding one tank 18 meals/ week, how many of these should consist of Veggies, Protein-rich frozen foods, and Flakes (which I mentioned their ingredients earlier)?? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Fry get 4-5 small feedings a day. Juvis get 3-4 feedings a day. I feed my adult fish twice a day, occasionally once a day or even skipping an entire day but most of the time, twice a day. If you have all stages of fish in a single tank, then you have to feed the fry five times a day and depending on how much the larger fish are going after the fry food, you may have to just feed enough so the fry get their fair share and just consider these feedings as the juvi and adult fishes normal feedings and do not feed them any other foods the rest of the day. You could also try feeding the adults first so they are not as hungry when you feed the fry for two of their meals so the fry are at least getting a better chance at food for two meals. You should consider growing some of your own live foods since you don't have those options... I know... as if you don't have enough to do already! :-P http://fish.mongabay.com/food.htm (top area lists common live foods for fish and further down lists some DIY micro foods for feeding your fry) http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html (info on culturing your own worms) These next three articles have links to culturing most other live foods. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/live-food.htm http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishfood/ http://www.algone.com/livefood.php Here are some DIY Gel Food Recipes. Stick to the recipes as some other fruits and veggies will cause the gelatin to NOT gel as Amber and I have recently learned. LOL http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php Here's some articles that someone else recently posted about using unflavored gelatin and also some foods that will mess up Jello but these are mostly fruits but I'm sure some veggies do the same thing. http://www.baking911.com/howto/gelatin.htm http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodcookingchemistry/a/foods-that-ruin-jell-o. htm Other fresh foods that can be used are things like green pea *meat* (pinch the skin and let the two halves fall into the water), sliced and blanching Zucchini, cucumber, broccoli florets, etc. I've seen posts of folks feeding their goldfish all sorts of fruits and veggies and many other omnivores and herbivores and I'm sure some carnivores would also like these types of foods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Hi, I have a variety of fish foods, and a variety of fish! Now the delimma if figure out what to feed to whom, and how many times aweek. Your help is needed here. Fish speices in the community tanks: Tank1 : I feed these ONCE aday: Angels, Tetra, Zebra Danio, CAE, and 2 guest Clown Loaches soon to go back to their loving owner ( about 3 weeks from now). Tank2: I feed these 2-3 times aday: Betta, small corydoras, and guppy fry (not so 'fry' anymore). Foods: Blood worms (freezedried), whole Shrimp (freezedried), sinking sardine pellets, Tubifex cubes(freezedried), Flake food (Ingredients: High class fish meal, plant astaxanthin, animal proteins, soya meal, cereals, fish oil, multi vitamins and trace element), floating granules that I don't know what they contain exactly but they're supposed to be high quality and for all tropical fish, Green Peas (frozen fresh). I occasionally throw finely chopped letuce, but with no mollies around there isn't huge enthusiasm about this treat. There are no FROZEN fish foods here, neither live foods, only freeze dried. You see I have been buying all sorts of foods except for those addressing a single species (like cichlids, goldfish, etc..) thinking that it would be better to feed my fish varient foods. I have a feeling that I'm too crowded with protein rich foods, and don't know how often should I use them. I'm also considering making my own homemade vegetable rich fish food, but don't know how much gelatin do I need.. have bulk powdered gelatin and I don't want to keep trying different amounts and throwing spoiled fish meals in the trash. Any advise? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46402	From: Noura	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in

Thanks Ray, I appreciate the detailed info. In fact, I was told that one of these plants that I've bought IS CRYPTS! So I'll go with Potassium Permenganat. Can you please identify one the plants in this photo: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3357/3440766650_e229516263_o.jpg The one with wide green leaves at the left, which is sticking out of the tank, I think it's one of the species I bought, only mine is much much smaller! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Plants jumping in Hi Noura, I'll start this off by saying -- To ensure your plants don't carry in snails to your tank (unless you don't mind having them), soak the plants in a solution of Alum (Aulminum Sulfate) which you should be able to find in the pickling and spice section of your market. Alum is by far the safest agent you can use for disinfecting plants of what are sometimes viewed as pests. Use 1 to 2 Tablespoons of Alum per gallon and allow the plants to soak at least overnight -- or up into the following day if you still see any activity of these intruders. Rinse them well after removing them. The next safest plant disinfecting agent you can use it Potassium Permanganate, an oxidizer which will kill off most any bacteria, fungus, and/or other small organism. A warning though -- as this is a purple dye medication, it will stain anything it comes in contact with, including your clothes, your rugs or your hands so you need to be careful of spilling it or getting it on your hands. You may not even be able to find it in your LFS, but if you can, with no certain measurement add enough to the water in your disinfecting container to turn the water a DARK pink, and let the plants soak for 20 minutes. Rinse them well after removing them. An extremely effect way of disinfecting plants is to use regular chlorine bleach (bottled most often at 5% solution), adding 1 part of this bottled chlorine solution to 19 parts of water. Before going any further, I need to tell you that not all plants will tolerate this bath equally, and a few may not tolerate it at all. In general, plants are allowed to soak in this solution for between 2 and 3 minutes -- with tougher-leaved plants such as Anubias or Sagittaria easily tolerating the 3 minutes, and medium-leaved plants needing to be removed closer to the 2 minute limit. Some more delicate leaved plants such as Vallisneria or Anacharis may not tolerate much more than a minute -- if at all! I would not trust Crytps to this solution for any length of time either. A bucket of fresh water containing a dechlorinator should be kept on hand and used immediately for the plants as soon as they're removed. Whenever using this chlorine solution for disinfecting plants, NEVER allow the roots to be immersed. Then, rinse them well after removing As I'll be away for several hours now, maybe someone else can add to any further inquiries you may have on this as I won't be available for the rest of the morning here (next 3 hours) in Eastern U.S.A. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46403	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Plants jumping in

Noura, The plant that you include a link for is not only sticking out of the tank but it's growing completely out of the water if you take a closer look. At first glance, it resembles Cryptocoryne longicauda, but growing emergent as it is, it could be any similar species of bog plant. Some of our aquarium plants often grow both submerged and emerged in the wild, and C. longicauda is one of them -- which does extremely well as a bog plant, BTW. Quite commonly though, many aquarium plants' leaves can change shape dramatically when they do grow above water and I'm not really sure of C. longicauda's habit (appearance) when grown as a bog plant. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46404	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods

That depends on the fish and whether they are carnivores, omnivores, herbivores or limnivores. On the Mongabay page about foods, further down on that page, it gives a breakdown on percentages of protein, etc. You should probably find/make a decent food with 30-40% protein base and then feed protein snacks (worms, etc.) to your carnivorous fish (Betta for example) and fruit/veggie snacks to your omnivorous/herbivorous fish. If you don't know the primary suggested diets of each of your fish, look at the Mongabay profiles on each species and it will tell you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Thanks Lenny, these are tons of practical information. The big tank contains mostly juvis, with one exception : Tetras. The guppy tank contains juvis and some fry, only one adult Betta. If I'm feeding one tank 18 meals/ week, how many of these should consist of Veggies, Protein-rich frozen foods, and Flakes (which I mentioned their ingredients earlier)?? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Fry get 4-5 small feedings a day. Juvis get 3-4 feedings a day. I feed my adult fish twice a day, occasionally once a day or even skipping an entire day but most of the time, twice a day. If you have all stages of fish in a single tank, then you have to feed the fry five times a day and depending on how much the larger fish are going after the fry food, you may have to just feed enough so the fry get their fair share and just consider these feedings as the juvi and adult fishes normal feedings and do not feed them any other foods the rest of the day. You could also try feeding the adults first so they are not as hungry when you feed the fry for two of their meals so the fry are at least getting a better chance at food for two meals. You should consider growing some of your own live foods since you don't have those options... I know... as if you don't have enough to do already! :-P http://fish.mongabay.com/food.htm (top area lists common live foods for fish and further down lists some DIY micro foods for feeding your fry) http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html (info on culturing your own worms) These next three articles have links to culturing most other live foods. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/live-food.htm http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishfood/ http://www.algone.com/livefood.php Here are some DIY Gel Food Recipes. Stick to the recipes as some other fruits and veggies will cause the gelatin to NOT gel as Amber and I have recently learned. LOL http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php Here's some articles that someone else recently posted about using unflavored gelatin and also some foods that will mess up Jello but these are mostly fruits but I'm sure some veggies do the same thing. http://www.baking911.com/howto/gelatin.htm http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodcookingchemistry/a/foods-that-ruin-jell-o. htm Other fresh foods that can be used are things like green pea *meat* (pinch the skin and let the two halves fall into the water), sliced and blanching Zucchini, cucumber, broccoli florets, etc. I've seen posts of folks feeding their goldfish all sorts of fruits and veggies and many other omnivores and herbivores and I'm sure some carnivores would also like these types of foods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Hi, I have a variety of fish foods, and a variety of fish! Now the delimma if figure out what to feed to whom, and how many times aweek. Your help is needed here. Fish speices in the community tanks: Tank1 : I feed these ONCE aday: Angels, Tetra, Zebra Danio, CAE, and 2 guest Clown Loaches soon to go back to their loving owner ( about 3 weeks from now). Tank2: I feed these 2-3 times aday: Betta, small corydoras, and guppy fry (not so 'fry' anymore). Foods: Blood worms (freezedried), whole Shrimp (freezedried), sinking sardine pellets, Tubifex cubes(freezedried), Flake food (Ingredients: High class fish meal, plant astaxanthin, animal proteins, soya meal, cereals, fish oil, multi vitamins and trace element), floating granules that I don't know what they contain exactly but they're supposed to be high quality and for all tropical fish, Green Peas (frozen fresh). I occasionally throw finely chopped letuce, but with no mollies around there isn't huge enthusiasm about this treat. There are no FROZEN fish foods here, neither live foods, only freeze dried. You see I have been buying all sorts of foods except for those addressing a single species (like cichlids, goldfish, etc..) thinking that it would be better to feed my fish varient foods. I have a feeling that I'm too crowded with protein rich foods, and don't know how often should I use them. I'm also considering making my own homemade vegetable rich fish food, but don't know how much gelatin do I need.. have bulk powdered gelatin and I don't want to keep trying different amounts and throwing spoiled fish meals in the trash. Any advise? Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46405	From: Dora Smith	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods

New Life Spectrum and Ocean Nutrition Formula One flakes both have more protein than that. Does that mean feed fewer worms? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:17 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods That depends on the fish and whether they are carnivores, omnivores, herbivores or limnivores. On the Mongabay page about foods, further down on that page, it gives a breakdown on percentages of protein, etc. You should probably find/make a decent food with 30-40% protein base and then feed protein snacks (worms, etc.) to your carnivorous fish (Betta for example) and fruit/veggie snacks to your omnivorous/herbivorous fish. If you don't know the primary suggested diets of each of your fish, look at the Mongabay profiles on each species and it will tell you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Thanks Lenny, these are tons of practical information. The big tank contains mostly juvis, with one exception : Tetras. The guppy tank contains juvis and some fry, only one adult Betta. If I'm feeding one tank 18 meals/ week, how many of these should consist of Veggies, Protein-rich frozen foods, and Flakes (which I mentioned their ingredients earlier)?? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Fry get 4-5 small feedings a day. Juvis get 3-4 feedings a day. I feed my adult fish twice a day, occasionally once a day or even skipping an entire day but most of the time, twice a day. If you have all stages of fish in a single tank, then you have to feed the fry five times a day and depending on how much the larger fish are going after the fry food, you may have to just feed enough so the fry get their fair share and just consider these feedings as the juvi and adult fishes normal feedings and do not feed them any other foods the rest of the day. You could also try feeding the adults first so they are not as hungry when you feed the fry for two of their meals so the fry are at least getting a better chance at food for two meals. You should consider growing some of your own live foods since you don't have those options... I know... as if you don't have enough to do already! :-P http://fish.mongabay.com/food.htm (top area lists common live foods for fish and further down lists some DIY micro foods for feeding your fry) http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html (info on culturing your own worms) These next three articles have links to culturing most other live foods. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/live-food.htm http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishfood/ http://www.algone.com/livefood.php Here are some DIY Gel Food Recipes. Stick to the recipes as some other fruits and veggies will cause the gelatin to NOT gel as Amber and I have recently learned. LOL http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php Here's some articles that someone else recently posted about using unflavored gelatin and also some foods that will mess up Jello but these are mostly fruits but I'm sure some veggies do the same thing. http://www.baking911.com/howto/gelatin.htm http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodcookingchemistry/a/foods-that-ruin-jell-o. htm Other fresh foods that can be used are things like green pea *meat* (pinch the skin and let the two halves fall into the water), sliced and blanching Zucchini, cucumber, broccoli florets, etc. I've seen posts of folks feeding their goldfish all sorts of fruits and veggies and many other omnivores and herbivores and I'm sure some carnivores would also like these types of foods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Hi, I have a variety of fish foods, and a variety of fish! Now the delimma if figure out what to feed to whom, and how many times aweek. Your help is needed here. Fish speices in the community tanks: Tank1 : I feed these ONCE aday: Angels, Tetra, Zebra Danio, CAE, and 2 guest Clown Loaches soon to go back to their loving owner ( about 3 weeks from now). Tank2: I feed these 2-3 times aday: Betta, small corydoras, and guppy fry (not so 'fry' anymore). Foods: Blood worms (freezedried), whole Shrimp (freezedried), sinking sardine pellets, Tubifex cubes(freezedried), Flake food (Ingredients: High class fish meal, plant astaxanthin, animal proteins, soya meal, cereals, fish oil, multi vitamins and trace element), floating granules that I don't know what they contain exactly but they're supposed to be high quality and for all tropical fish, Green Peas (frozen fresh). I occasionally throw finely chopped letuce, but with no mollies around there isn't huge enthusiasm about this treat. There are no FROZEN fish foods here, neither live foods, only freeze dried. You see I have been buying all sorts of foods except for those addressing a single species (like cichlids, goldfish, etc..) thinking that it would be better to feed my fish varient foods. I have a feeling that I'm too crowded with protein rich foods, and don't know how often should I use them. I'm also considering making my own homemade vegetable rich fish food, but don't know how much gelatin do I need.. have bulk powdered gelatin and I don't want to keep trying different amounts and throwing spoiled fish meals in the trash. Any advise? Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 1/31/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Foods

It depends on the fish and whether they are carnivores, herbivores or omnivores. If you look at the Mongabay page that I linked to earlier, it shows more details on the percentages of proteins for each type of fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods New Life Spectrum and Ocean Nutrition Formula One flakes both have more protein than that. Does that mean feed fewer worms? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:17 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods That depends on the fish and whether they are carnivores, omnivores, herbivores or limnivores. On the Mongabay page about foods, further down on that page, it gives a breakdown on percentages of protein, etc. You should probably find/make a decent food with 30-40% protein base and then feed protein snacks (worms, etc.) to your carnivorous fish (Betta for example) and fruit/veggie snacks to your omnivorous/herbivorous fish. If you don't know the primary suggested diets of each of your fish, look at the Mongabay profiles on each species and it will tell you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Thanks Lenny, these are tons of practical information. The big tank contains mostly juvis, with one exception : Tetras. The guppy tank contains juvis and some fry, only one adult Betta. If I'm feeding one tank 18 meals/ week, how many of these should consist of Veggies, Protein-rich frozen foods, and Flakes (which I mentioned their ingredients earlier)?? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Fry get 4-5 small feedings a day. Juvis get 3-4 feedings a day. I feed my adult fish twice a day, occasionally once a day or even skipping an entire day but most of the time, twice a day. If you have all stages of fish in a single tank, then you have to feed the fry five times a day and depending on how much the larger fish are going after the fry food, you may have to just feed enough so the fry get their fair share and just consider these feedings as the juvi and adult fishes normal feedings and do not feed them any other foods the rest of the day. You could also try feeding the adults first so they are not as hungry when you feed the fry for two of their meals so the fry are at least getting a better chance at food for two meals. You should consider growing some of your own live foods since you don't have those options... I know... as if you don't have enough to do already! :-P http://fish.mongabay.com/food.htm (top area lists common live foods for fish and further down lists some DIY micro foods for feeding your fry) http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html (info on culturing your own worms) These next three articles have links to culturing most other live foods. http://www.sydneycichlid.com/live-food.htm http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishfood/ http://www.algone.com/livefood.php Here are some DIY Gel Food Recipes. Stick to the recipes as some other fruits and veggies will cause the gelatin to NOT gel as Amber and I have recently learned. LOL http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=18 http://www.thekrib.com/Food/paste.html http://www.sydneycichlid.com/cichlid-food-frozen.htm http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GelFood.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/food_recipes.php Here's some articles that someone else recently posted about using unflavored gelatin and also some foods that will mess up Jello but these are mostly fruits but I'm sure some veggies do the same thing. http://www.baking911.com/howto/gelatin.htm http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodcookingchemistry/a/foods-that-ruin-jell-o. htm Other fresh foods that can be used are things like green pea *meat* (pinch the skin and let the two halves fall into the water), sliced and blanching Zucchini, cucumber, broccoli florets, etc. I've seen posts of folks feeding their goldfish all sorts of fruits and veggies and many other omnivores and herbivores and I'm sure some carnivores would also like these types of foods. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Foods Hi, I have a variety of fish foods, and a variety of fish! Now the delimma if figure out what to feed to whom, and how many times aweek. Your help is needed here. Fish speices in the community tanks: Tank1 : I feed these ONCE aday: Angels, Tetra, Zebra Danio, CAE, and 2 guest Clown Loaches soon to go back to their loving owner ( about 3 weeks from now). Tank2: I feed these 2-3 times aday: Betta, small corydoras, and guppy fry (not so 'fry' anymore). Foods: Blood worms (freezedried), whole Shrimp (freezedried), sinking sardine pellets, Tubifex cubes(freezedried), Flake food (Ingredients: High class fish meal, plant astaxanthin, animal proteins, soya meal, cereals, fish oil, multi vitamins and trace element), floating granules that I don't know what they contain exactly but they're supposed to be high quality and for all tropical fish, Green Peas (frozen fresh). I occasionally throw finely chopped letuce, but with no mollies around there isn't huge enthusiasm about this treat. There are no FROZEN fish foods here, neither live foods, only freeze dried. You see I have been buying all sorts of foods except for those addressing a single species (like cichlids, goldfish, etc..) thinking that it would be better to feed my fish varient foods. I have a feeling that I'm too crowded with protein rich foods, and don't know how often should I use them. I'm also considering making my own homemade vegetable rich fish food, but don't know how much gelatin do I need.. have bulk powdered gelatin and I don't want to keep trying different amounts and throwing spoiled fish meals in the trash. Any advise? Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46407	From: Avin Deen	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Rosy Barbs in a planted aquarium

Dear all I set up a planted tank a few months ago and till now I had 7 cherry barbs, 8 black neons and 1 false siamensis. I noticed a lot of brown growth on the anubias which were rendering it very ugly. I read on the internet that Rosy barbs are good at getting rid of them and i went ahead and got about 6 of them. Now I am beginning to feel that they don't fit in. They are too boisterous and keep zapping about the tank disturbing the tranquil atmosphere which prevailed earlier. I wanted to know your opinions as to whether to retain them or give them away to someone with a fish-only set up. Would they end up damaging my plants? And are they really good at getting rid of the brown fuzzy growth on my anubias. Please help Avin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46408	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: About Shipping?

Bill, I'll start with the basics -- the shipping box -- and go from there. The "regular" size commercial shipping box consists of a styrofoam inner box within a corregated cardboard outer box and measures about 9" high by 18" square, maybe a little larger when the cardboard box is included. I said "regular" as this is the size mostly used for the majority of smaller community type fish used by most of the Florida fish farms and many of the Asian exporter farms. Other, slighly smaller and somewhat larger sizes are used by these firms as well as by exporters of wild fishes (of different sizes) from South America and Africa. You can make up a similar box of your own by using a size corregated box of your choosing and going to home depot and buying a sheet of 1/2" (or preferably thicker, in this current weather) thick styrofoam, cutting it to size to fit your box -- but usually you can get them free from your LFS which just throws them out after receiving them from their wholesalers containing the fish they order every week. Even if you have to pay a couple of bucks, it's worth it. Best success is had when filling the bags with pure oxygen after the water and fish are added to the bags, but you can just use air provided you pack the bags more loosely with fish. The thickness of these plastic bags depends on what kinds of fish you're shipping. Normally, a 3 mil (.003") thick bag is sufficient for the most heaviest duty of shipping fish -- which would be meant for Cichlids and Catfish (any fish having spiney fin rays). While 4 mil bags may be used, if a 3 mil bag doesn't prevent a fish's spines from puncturing the bag, a 4 mil (.004") won't prevent it either -- and these bags would be used for larger Cichlids and Catfish. A 4 mil bag is much more difficult to close in a manner that would not allow some leakage; as it is, you need to take extra precautions with closing 3 mil bags. Various size bags are available, up to and including the size that will completely fit your fish box -- A BOX-BAG -- which is what most fish farms use for larger quantities of "bread & butter" fish (Tetras, Barbs, Livebearers, etc.). Other certain sizes are used accordingly, depend on what fish you're shipping. When I used to receive Rift Lake Cichlids from Pierre Brichard or Peter Davies, they would ship them in box bags, but they were sedated. Otherwise, without sedation, the more aggressive species (noteably, such as Ps. elongatus) would be chewing the tails off each other if packed in groups. So when I shipped them out across the country, I'd pack them individually in tubular 6" x 22" 3-mil bags, allowing for needed twisting and closing of the end before placing in the box. Depending on the size of the order, I might not use a "standard" sized box, but might use something a bit larger, although a standard box would fit 3 levels of 5 bags each (for 15 fish), crossed alternately; we are talking about up to 6" fish here. When I received fish from Germany, they were either of West African varieties (such as Anomalochromis thomasi -- "dwarf African-Butterfly Cichlid," known then as Pelmatochromis thomasi) which weren't as aggressive or they were juvenile Rift Lake Cichlids such as Julidochromis ornatus which were not found in Brichard's collecting range (Burundi), but were only collected by the Germans who had licenses to fish from countries on the opposite side of the Lake (Zaire), until he started expanding later on. These shipments that I received from Aquarium Hamburg and Aquarium Frankfort were bagged probably 4 larger bags to the box, as I recall. I'm getting away from the actual subject at hand, but am trying to demonstrate how various sized bags may be used and/or needed depending upon the circumstance. Not that you're shipping adult Rift Lake Cichids, but the main trick here in not having them puncture the bag is to first get them into the bag without incident (without them being too excited or nervous, and thrashing about). This is easily done by dropping them ("slipping" them) in head first into the bag with water as gently as possible. Once they're in, they seldom make a commotion, although the closed box is better insurance of their calming down since there's no light to make them excited. With all smaller fish, a 2 mil (.002") thick bag is plenty adequate. You could use either two 8" x 18" bags containing perhaps up to a dozen 3/4" fish each or four 6" x 12" bags containing about 6 fish each -- again, preferably with oxygen, but that should be "loose" enough to go with plain air. Bags are to be filled about 1/3 (or less) with water and 2/3 with air. When using oxygen, you only need 1/4 bag of water, then 3/4 bag of oxygen, making sure that the fish are covered with at least one and a half times their height (with fins extended) in water -- more, if using plain air. The bags are "sealed" by tightly twisting the ends, and then doubling this twist back on itself, after either the air (don't "breathe" into the bag) or oxygen is added (capture) and wrapped tightly with strong rubber bands -- using TWO rubber bands in case one breaks enroute. These bags are then each inverted into a second bag of the same size and that bag is then sealed using two rubber bands. Unless you know that the shipment will arrive the same day at the other end within hours, DO NOT stand the bags up, but lay them down horizontally to expose as much water surface to the air or oxygen as possible. A strong hint -- when bagging smaller fish of 3/4" or less, it's adviseable to first eliminate the bottom corners of the bag either by wrapping these corners with small rubber bands or with black plastic electrician's tape. This will prevent small fish from getting stuck in these corners where they almost always find a way of getting into otherwise. Usually, when inverting the bag inside the second one and sealing it, it will usually close up these corners anyway, but you can't always count on it. I've seen some hobbyist just tying this twisted bag end in a knot, pulling it tightly, but I wouldn't trust it for shipping; that's used mostly for fish placed in same-day auctions. Before placing these bags into the box, it's preferable to use a box liner -- large plastic bag filling out the entire box -- which will catch any seepage' especially important if using the U.S. Mail or Fed-Ex. Crumpled newspaper or styrofoam peanuts may be used to fill out any unused space within the box liner, which will hold all bags in place to prevent their movement, as well as add further insulation. In cooler weather it's important to use heat packs, which I believe can be obtained from Home Depot -- unless the shipment is going by air freight DIRECTLY to the receives terminal, and not making a connecting flight. Even then, unless this is a short flight taking no more than several hours only, like from LGA or JFK (New York) or EWR (Newark) to ORD (O'Hare, Chicago), a heat pack is recommended in cooler weather. This would be especially important if shipping from BOS (Boston) to LAX (Los Angeles) or SFO (San Francisco), and even the shorter flights when the weather gets colder ( as in Winter-time). These heat packs come in various time durations, like 24 hours, or 36 hours, etc. There are special thin semi-stretchable "breathable" bags available for shipping fish, which are thin enough yet strong enough to allow for atmospheric gasious exchanges through the plastic as through a membrane without leaking water. These are to be filled up completely with water, leaving absolutely no air in the bag before sealing. They are then placed in the box with either dry crumpled newspaper between each bag, or styrofoam pellets -- as they can't be allowed to contact each other. To allow them to be in contact with each other is to prevent some of the gas exchanging process as the contact surfaces cannot "breathe." Wet surfaces that they come in contact with will also prevent full gas exchanging. These bags are sealed with a heat-sealing device -- not cheap, but when used on a regular basis pays for itself in time. I don't particularly like these bags for larger fish, even though the bags do come in all sizes. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46409	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Stinky!

As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my Betta bowls. I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their water smelled foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did their bowls get so STINKY? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46410	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the snails and then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove waste from the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each week. If these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should probably be doing 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water parameters are close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a lot different, then you might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my Betta bowls. I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their water smelled foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did their bowls get so STINKY? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46411	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're worse than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my mystery snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed their water will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon your gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, if it's really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the snails and > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove waste > from > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > week. If > these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should probably be doing > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > parameters are > close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a lot different, then you > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my Betta > bowls. > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their water > smelled > foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did their bowls get so > STINKY? > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46412	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: WOW! Re: About Shipping?

Ray, thanks so much for the information.  I only hope others   in the group both enjoyed and saved it for future reference as I did!   Thanks Again, Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46413	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad of bubble-gum? ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're worse > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my mystery > snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed their water > will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon your > gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, if it's > really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the snails and > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove waste > > from > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > week. If > > these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should probably be doing > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > parameters are > > close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a lot different, then you > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my Betta > > bowls. > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their water > > smelled > > foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did their bowls get so > > STINKY? > > ~Kai > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46414	From: Noura	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

I thought that snails are hermaphrodite (both male and female), like worms. I don't think it needs two of them to lay eggs. So your "isolation" plan will probably not work! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: kuradi8 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 2:19 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad of bubble-gum? ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're worse > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my mystery > snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed their water > will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon your > gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, if it's > really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the snails and > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove waste > > from > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > week. If > > these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should probably be doing > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > parameters are > > close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a lot different, then you > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my Betta > > bowls. > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their water > > smelled > > foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did their bowls get so > > STINKY? > > ~Kai > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46415	From: William M	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Unlike most snails that have both sexes in each animal, the mystery snail have separate sexes in each animal. Plus most snails that do have both sexes in each animal will need to have a partner so that both will become "pregnant" during a mating. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > I thought that snails are hermaphrodite (both male and female), like worms. I don't think it needs two of them to lay eggs. So your "isolation" plan will probably not work! > > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46416	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Most snails are asexual (can change sexes depending on need) or hermaphrodites (can breed with themselves) but there are several species that are more highly evolved and are sexed either male or female. Mystery snails (part of and including the Apple Snail family) are one of the sexed snails. http://www.applesnail.net has a page showing how to tell the difference between a male and female. Sounds like the common names of those first mentioned snails should be changed to San Francisco Snails or French Quarter Snails. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! I thought that snails are hermaphrodite (both male and female), like worms. I don't think it needs two of them to lay eggs. So your "isolation" plan will probably not work! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: kuradi8 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 2:19 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad of bubble-gum? ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're worse > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my mystery > snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed their water > will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon your > gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, if it's > really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the snails and > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove waste > > from > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > week. If > > these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should probably be doing > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > parameters are > > close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a lot different, then you > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of kuradi8 > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my Betta > > bowls. > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their water > > smelled > > foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did their bowls get so > > STINKY? > > ~Kai > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/1/2010
Subject: OT: Lawmaker wants to ban "Ex-Lax" fish

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/strange/lawmaker-wants-to-ban-ex-lax-fish http://tinyurl.com/yacevdw Lawmaker wants to ban "Ex-Lax" fish Hawaiian Butterfish can tear up your stomach Updated: Friday, 29 Jan 2010, 10:51 AM CST Published : Friday, 29 Jan 2010, 10:50 AM CST State Representative James Tokioka did some research and drafted a bill that prohibits catching, selling or even possessing walu in Hawaii. "I talked [to] many people who sell fish, some of the hotel who [buys] fish, they are aware of it and they're not buying it anymore," said Rep. Tokioka. Tokioka said people have shared their nightmares of severe diarrhea after consuming a large portion of the fish. The oily walu or Escolar contains a high-level of wax esters in its tissue that are beneficial to its deep-sea survival, but can be unkind to humans. "I've never had it, but the people that I've talked to said you can't control it," said Rep. Tokioka. Native Hawaiians called the fish Maku'u or exploding intestines. It is banned in Japan and Italy. --------<Continued at link>-------- Didn't Exploding Intestines open for Green Day? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46418	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: FW: Practical Fishkeeping is back online - and on mobile

Wow... after they came under a serious cyber-attack several months ago, I didn't know if they were ever coming back. Glad to see they finally made it back online. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Practical Fishkeeping [mailto:PFK@...] Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 4:30 AM To: GoldLenny Subject: Practical Fishkeeping is back online - and on mobile (SNIPPED) http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46419	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: (no subject)

Did anyone see this article? It's a pretty good explanation of the type of evolution that happened in the African Rift Lakes. And why we like to maintain the newly evolved groups separately by collection point. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35184122/ns/technology_and_science-science/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46420	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: (no subject)

I saw something similar on TV in which the show explained that if a storm moves the rocks around and leaves an unprotected swatch of lake-bottom, the fish won't cross it. If a single species of fish get separated, they each interbreed with other different fish that stumble into their space and become very different. This is especially true of the smaller fish. The species are all very dynamic and constantly changing. Mother Nature is a pretty remarkable thing. :o) ~Kai > Donna Ransome wrote: > > Did anyone see this article? It's a pretty good explanation of the type of evolution that happened in the African Rift Lakes. And why we like to maintain the newly evolved groups separately by collection point. > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35184122/ns/technology_and_science-science/ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46421	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Re: (unknown)

There are species of West African crater lake Cichlid species which have been documented recently, as presently evolving into different species, taking advantage of specific niches of their environment specializing in certain feeding situations. Basically, they are still identified as being one species but two distinct forms of it as seen by their mouth structure. They do not interbreed in nature as they occupy different levels of their environment but can still readily interbreed in captivity with their offspring manifesting characteristics of one or the other parent -- but not an intermediate form containing features of both. I recall they were described in the monthly magazine, "Cichlid News" (published by Aquatic Promotions) a good number of years ago now. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46422	From: Noura	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Plant Profiles

Hi, These are photos of the plants I recently purchased. Please help me identify them. Plant1 Plant2 Plant3 (only the plant on the right), the other ones are sets from plants 1 and 2. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46423	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Fish Caught Evolving

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35184122/ns/technology_and_science-science/ http://tinyurl.com/ybeyoyt Fish caught evolving into three different species Finding suggests there may be many new kinds of fish we don't know about By Emily Sohn updated 12:42 p.m. ET, Mon., Feb. 1, 2010 The King demoiselle is not just one type of fish, but three distinct groups that recently split from each other, according to a new study. By essentially catching one species in the process of turning into three, the study suggests that conservation efforts might be failing a variety of species that have yet to be identified. "This work, along with others, is starting to show that there is a lot more biodiversity in the oceans then we previously thought," said Joshua Drew, a marine conservation biologist at the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago. "We really are in a situation where we are losing things before we even know they exist." --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46424	From: Lisa	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Clearing up space

I took my rasboras and glass catfish into my LFS yesterday to clear up some space in my tank for the growing swordtail and guppy fry. It's amazing, I didn't realize how many fry are actually in there. Seems like since I took the rasboras and GC out, that the fry have come out of hiding. I still have my BN catfish (never giving him up) and the cardinal tetras as well and the guppies and swords.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46425	From: CherylE	Date: 2/2/2010
Subject: Platy's still having babies!

How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46426	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

Female platys can drop fry for up to 6 months after mating. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46427	From: pam andress	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

T To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: steve@... Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 04:44:02 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Female platys can drop fry for up to 6 months after mating. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46428	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Profiles

Plant 1 is an Echinodorus [not sure exactly which species], plant 2 is Cryptocoryne lutea and plant 3 is Echinodorus bleheri. Echinodorus (swords) are sometimes hard to identify because when purchased they may have the emersed leaf form, and it can vary significantly from the submersed form that the plant will have in the aquarium. I'm fairly certain #3 is E. bleheri, and if so, the leaves will have much longer blades once the new aquatic leaves emerge and the existing leaves will yellow and should then be cut off. This is why I'm not certain on plant #1; I have bought more than one plant looking something like this and they have developed into 3 or 4 completely different species underwater. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi, > These are photos of the plants I recently purchased. Please help me identify them. > Plant1 > Plant2 > Plant3 (only the plant on the right), the other ones are sets from plants 1 and 2. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46429	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less than a year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males from the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or sisters. ;-) What size tank do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46430	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

Oops.. I meant to include this link for more info. Scroll down to the bottom for the profiles on a couple of Platy species. Under "Sex" and "Breeding", you'll find most of your answers... as well as all of the great info in the rest of the profiles. http://fish.mongabay.com/poeciliidae.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46431	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: 3 week old ram fry

Here are a couple of photos of the babies at three weeks. They are doing very well. They have become fairly jumpy, and dart away when I approach. I did not realize that they would become so high-strung. The plants are dense in their tank, so they have lots of cover. See photos in new photos or here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list I am planning their next tank... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46432	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Sorry I've been on my week vacation and haven't been paying attention to email like I normally do. I don't normally time my snails, as they can lay eggs any time, sometimes they will hold onto the male's sperm and wait until it's a "good time" to lay eggs. So you never really know. When you notice your female climbing out of the top of your destop aquariums (hope you have a good lid on them, LOL), you will know that she is ready to lay eggs. I had an open top aquarium and used to lose females every now and then, I have since covered the top so they can't "jump out" LOL. Once the female lays her eggs it takes about 2 weeks or so for them to hatch. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. > > These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted > plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. > Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first > time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. > > Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I > think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I > think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad > of bubble-gum? > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're > worse > > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my mystery > > snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed their water > > will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. > > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon your > > gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, if it's > > really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the > snails and > > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove > waste > > > from > > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > > week. If > > > these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should probably > be doing > > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > > parameters are > > > close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a lot different, > then you > > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my Betta > > > bowls. > > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their water > > > smelled > > > foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did their bowls get so > > > STINKY? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Profiles

plant 1 and 2 both look like Cryptocoryne's to me, and the last one (plant 3) looks like a sword. Amber Noura wrote: > > Hi, > These are photos of the plants I recently purchased. Please help me > identify them. > Plant1 > Plant2 > Plant3 (only the plant on the right), the other ones are sets from > plants 1 and 2. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1806651824/pic/list> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

So.. did you hang out on the white sand South Alaska beaches all week long working on your tan? Oh wait... that's not white sand.. it's SNOW! At least there's always that spray on tan stuff... or are tanning beds a big thing up there? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Sorry I've been on my week vacation and haven't been paying attention to email like I normally do. I don't normally time my snails, as they can lay eggs any time, sometimes they will hold onto the male's sperm and wait until it's a "good time" to lay eggs. So you never really know. When you notice your female climbing out of the top of your destop aquariums (hope you have a good lid on them, LOL), you will know that she is ready to lay eggs. I had an open top aquarium and used to lose females every now and then, I have since covered the top so they can't "jump out" LOL. Once the female lays her eggs it takes about 2 weeks or so for them to hatch. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. > > These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted > plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. > Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first > time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. > > Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I > think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I > think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad > of bubble-gum? > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're > worse > > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my > > mystery snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed > > their water will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. > > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon > > your gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, > > if it's really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the > snails and > > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove > waste > > > from > > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > > week. If these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should > > > probably > be doing > > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > > parameters are close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a > > > lot different, > then you > > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my > > > Betta bowls. > > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their > > > water smelled foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did > > > their bowls get so STINKY? > > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46435	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject:

Hello:     I used Hikari first bites (the powdered one) for part of the food the last time I raised some Meeki Firemouths (Thoricthys meeki) and it worked real well.  I will use it again.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, the "Creature") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46436	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re:

Hi John, I noticed that your last few replies came to the group without the subject line filled in with the same subject that you were replying about. If you clear out the subject line, your reply ends up starting a new thread and the person you were replying to may never realize you were replying to them with information. It's also a great idea to include at least a snip of the thread you were replying to so a new reader to the thread would know what you are talking about. I usually leave the full thread or at least the past several replies so there is continuity to the new reader who only gets replies via their email instead of going to the group to read messages. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:          Hello:     I used Hikari first bites (the powdered one) for part of the food the last time I raised some Meeki Firemouths (Thoricthys meeki) and it worked real well.  I will use it again.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, the "Creature") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46437	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

90 gallons. I have some neon tetra's, glow light tetra's, guppies, platy's, a 3 spot gourami, a bristle nose pleco and a cory. I am so afraid that my tank is going to end up overstocked, in fact it probably already is with all the new babies. What does everyone do with all their babies? Do you give them to the LFS? Should I get a fish that will eat them, (I know that sounds terrible, because they are all so cute) but I am worried. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less than a year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males from the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or sisters. ;-) What size tank do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46438	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

Hi Cheryl - I do think it's a good idea to have a baby-eating fish on hand like my hungry male betta. My LFS throws injured small-type fish into one of those tanks with really big fish and it's over instantly. At first I was horrified, but soon realized how silly that is. We can't possibly keep all these babies! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 3, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Cheryl Ellison wrote: > 90 gallons. I have some neon tetra's, glow light tetra's, guppies, > platy's, a 3 spot gourami, a bristle nose pleco and a cory. I am so > afraid that my tank is going to end up overstocked, in fact it > probably already is with all the new babies. What does everyone do > with all their babies? Do you give them to the LFS? Should I get a > fish that will eat them, (I know that sounds terrible, because they > are all so cute) but I am worried. > > Cheryl from Seattle > http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! > > They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less > than a > year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males > from > the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or > sisters. ;-) > > What size tank do you have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of CherylE > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! > > How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I > bought them > at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both > females > and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just > spotted three > more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born > are about > 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate > already? I > can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are > four of > them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My > guppies > are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with > fish soon. > > Cheryl > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46439	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

Your other fish should already be feasting on the newborn fry, including their parents unless you have a well planted tank where the fry will instinctively hide. I don't think you should have many problems with overstocking but if you do, you would need to cull out the fry that do not look good (pretty) to you and especially any that have deformities. If you have a lot, you can freeze them and use them in some DIY fish gelfood in the near future. Most LFS will not take livebearers since they probably already have so many themselves but you can ask. If you do want to limit the breeding, then get a second tank and segregate the females into that tank and keep only the adult males in the big tank. The adult males are the prettiest anyhow... for most species in the animal kingdom... except for us men. :-( Whenever you need more platys, throw a few of your males in the female tank and let the festivities begin! :-P What kind of Corydoras sp. do you have? There are dozens, if not hundreds of species ranging in size from less than an inch to 4"-5". As far as I know, all Corydoras should be kept in groups, some of at least three or more, most preferring five or more. Having one by itself it kind of stressful to a shoaling fish. Since you have a big tank, work on getting him some friends, preferably of the same species but often they'll shoal with other similar Corydoras species. Here's more info on them, including profiles on many of the more common species. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm The BN Pleco and 3-spot Gourami are OK to keep by themselves. Your tetras should be kept in schools of six or more. Possibly, the two species will school together if you have less than six of each but your tank is large enough for a nice big school of each.. maybe 10 of each. The bigger the school, the more likely the fish will school and you'll get to see them swim around in unison. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! 90 gallons. I have some neon tetra's, glow light tetra's, guppies, platy's, a 3 spot gourami, a bristle nose pleco and a cory. I am so afraid that my tank is going to end up overstocked, in fact it probably already is with all the new babies. What does everyone do with all their babies? Do you give them to the LFS? Should I get a fish that will eat them, (I know that sounds terrible, because they are all so cute) but I am worried. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less than a year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males from the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or sisters. ;-) What size tank do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46440	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Lenny, Her, get a tan? At this time of year? Have your forgotten that there is no sunlight up there at this time of the year? This is why there are no ground hogs in Alaska Each year the ground hogs would come out of their dens and, not seeing their shadows would declare that spring was almost here. Spring, on the other hand, would not show with a reasonable time causing upset to the populace thus causing them to go out and shoot to kill any ground hog they saw. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! So.. did you hang out on the white sand South Alaska beaches all week long working on your tan? Oh wait... that's not white sand.. it's SNOW! At least there's always that spray on tan stuff... or are tanning beds a big thing up there? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Sorry I've been on my week vacation and haven't been paying attention to email like I normally do. I don't normally time my snails, as they can lay eggs any time, sometimes they will hold onto the male's sperm and wait until it's a "good time" to lay eggs. So you never really know. When you notice your female climbing out of the top of your destop aquariums (hope you have a good lid on them, LOL), you will know that she is ready to lay eggs. I had an open top aquarium and used to lose females every now and then, I have since covered the top so they can't "jump out" LOL. Once the female lays her eggs it takes about 2 weeks or so for them to hatch. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. > > These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted > plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. > Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first > time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. > > Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I > think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I > think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad > of bubble-gum? > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're > worse > > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my > > mystery snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed > > their water will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. > > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon > > your gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, > > if it's really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the > snails and > > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove > waste > > > from > > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > > week. If these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should > > > probably > be doing > > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > > parameters are close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a > > > lot different, > then you > > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my > > > Betta bowls. > > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their > > > water smelled foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did > > > their bowls get so STINKY? > > > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46441	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Dang... I forgot that Alaska has six months of night this time of the year. I guess the tanning spray and beds are a big thing up there. But if she hasn't been tanning out on the South Alaska beaches... why hasn't she been doing her emails? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Lenny, Her, get a tan? At this time of year? Have your forgotten that there is no sunlight up there at this time of the year? This is why there are no ground hogs in Alaska Each year the ground hogs would come out of their dens and, not seeing their shadows would declare that spring was almost here. Spring, on the other hand, would not show with a reasonable time causing upset to the populace thus causing them to go out and shoot to kill any ground hog they saw. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! So.. did you hang out on the white sand South Alaska beaches all week long working on your tan? Oh wait... that's not white sand.. it's SNOW! At least there's always that spray on tan stuff... or are tanning beds a big thing up there? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Sorry I've been on my week vacation and haven't been paying attention to email like I normally do. I don't normally time my snails, as they can lay eggs any time, sometimes they will hold onto the male's sperm and wait until it's a "good time" to lay eggs. So you never really know. When you notice your female climbing out of the top of your destop aquariums (hope you have a good lid on them, LOL), you will know that she is ready to lay eggs. I had an open top aquarium and used to lose females every now and then, I have since covered the top so they can't "jump out" LOL. Once the female lays her eggs it takes about 2 weeks or so for them to hatch. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. > > These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted > plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. > Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first > time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. > > Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I > think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I > think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad > of bubble-gum? > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're > worse > > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my > > mystery snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed > > their water will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. > > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon > > your gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, > > if it's really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the > snails and > > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove > waste > > > from > > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > > week. If these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should > > > probably > be doing > > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > > parameters are close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a > > > lot different, > then you > > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my > > > Betta bowls. > > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their > > > water smelled foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did > > > their bowls get so STINKY? > > > ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46442	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

My eyes have been glued to a new game I just bought, I've beaten it nearly twice already, LOL. It's nice to vegg out now and then and not have to think about anything "important" except water changes and filter cleanings, not to mention feeding the fish ;) And yes tanning spray and beds are a big thing up here, but we don't get 6 months of night, we just get shorter days (about 8 hours of sunlight this time of year). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Dang... I forgot that Alaska has six months of night this time of the > year. > I guess the tanning spray and beds are a big thing up there. > > But if she hasn't been tanning out on the South Alaska beaches... why > hasn't > she been doing her emails? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! > > Lenny, > > Her, get a tan? At this time of year? Have your forgotten that there is no > sunlight up there at this time of the year? > > This is why there are no ground hogs in Alaska Each year the ground hogs > would come out of their dens and, not seeing their shadows would declare > that spring was almost here. Spring, on the other hand, would not show > with > a reasonable time causing upset to the populace thus causing them to > go out > and shoot to kill any ground hog they saw. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! > > So.. did you hang out on the white sand South Alaska beaches all week long > working on your tan? Oh wait... that's not white sand.. it's SNOW! At > least there's always that spray on tan stuff... or are tanning beds a big > thing up there? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! > > Sorry I've been on my week vacation and haven't been paying attention to > email like I normally do. > I don't normally time my snails, as they can lay eggs any time, sometimes > they will hold onto the male's sperm and wait until it's a "good time" to > lay eggs. So you never really know. When you notice your female > climbing out > of the top of your destop aquariums (hope you have a good lid on them, > LOL), > you will know that she is ready to lay eggs. I had an open top > aquarium and > used to lose females every now and then, I have since covered the top so > they can't "jump out" LOL. Once the female lays her eggs it takes about 2 > weeks or so for them to hatch. > > Amber > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. > > > > These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted > > plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. > > Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first > > time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. > > > > Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I > > think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I > > think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad > > of bubble-gum? > > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're > > worse > > > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > > > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my > > > mystery snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed > > > their water will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water > changes. > > > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon > > > your gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, > > > if it's really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high > heaven. > > > > > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the > > snails and > > > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove > > waste > > > > from > > > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > > > week. If these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should > > > > probably > > be doing > > > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > > > parameters are close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a > > > > lot different, > > then you > > > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > > SAY DEY > > > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my > > > > Betta bowls. > > > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their > > > > water smelled foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did > > > > their bowls get so STINKY? > > > > ~Kai > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46443	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/3/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

You hear that \\Steve//... she's so use to six months of darkness, this time of year, that she thinks that they actually have sunlight for eight hours. Be gentle when you break the news to her that the sun that she is seeing is on that dang picture box thingy. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! My eyes have been glued to a new game I just bought, I've beaten it nearly twice already, LOL. It's nice to vegg out now and then and not have to think about anything "important" except water changes and filter cleanings, not to mention feeding the fish ;) And yes tanning spray and beds are a big thing up here, but we don't get 6 months of night, we just get shorter days (about 8 hours of sunlight this time of year). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Dang... I forgot that Alaska has six months of night this time of the > year. > I guess the tanning spray and beds are a big thing up there. > > But if she hasn't been tanning out on the South Alaska beaches... why > hasn't she been doing her emails? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! > > Lenny, > > Her, get a tan? At this time of year? Have your forgotten that there > is no sunlight up there at this time of the year? > > This is why there are no ground hogs in Alaska Each year the ground > hogs would come out of their dens and, not seeing their shadows would > declare that spring was almost here. Spring, on the other hand, would > not show with a reasonable time causing upset to the populace thus > causing them to go out and shoot to kill any ground hog they saw. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! > > So.. did you hang out on the white sand South Alaska beaches all week > long working on your tan? Oh wait... that's not white sand.. it's > SNOW! At least there's always that spray on tan stuff... or are > tanning beds a big thing up there? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! > > Sorry I've been on my week vacation and haven't been paying attention > to email like I normally do. > I don't normally time my snails, as they can lay eggs any time, > sometimes they will hold onto the male's sperm and wait until it's a > "good time" to lay eggs. So you never really know. When you notice > your female climbing out of the top of your destop aquariums (hope you > have a good lid on them, LOL), you will know that she is ready to lay > eggs. I had an open top aquarium and used to lose females every now > and then, I have since covered the top so they can't "jump out" LOL. > Once the female lays her eggs it takes about 2 weeks or so for them to > hatch. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46444	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Lenny, Frozen fingers from laying on the beach. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Dang... I forgot that Alaska has six months of night this time of the year. I guess the tanning spray and beds are a big thing up there. But if she hasn't been tanning out on the South Alaska beaches... why hasn't she been doing her emails? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Lenny, Her, get a tan? At this time of year? Have your forgotten that there is no sunlight up there at this time of the year? This is why there are no ground hogs in Alaska Each year the ground hogs would come out of their dens and, not seeing their shadows would declare that spring was almost here. Spring, on the other hand, would not show with a reasonable time causing upset to the populace thus causing them to go out and shoot to kill any ground hog they saw. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! So.. did you hang out on the white sand South Alaska beaches all week long working on your tan? Oh wait... that's not white sand.. it's SNOW! At least there's always that spray on tan stuff... or are tanning beds a big thing up there? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Sorry I've been on my week vacation and haven't been paying attention to email like I normally do. I don't normally time my snails, as they can lay eggs any time, sometimes they will hold onto the male's sperm and wait until it's a "good time" to lay eggs. So you never really know. When you notice your female climbing out of the top of your destop aquariums (hope you have a good lid on them, LOL), you will know that she is ready to lay eggs. I had an open top aquarium and used to lose females every now and then, I have since covered the top so they can't "jump out" LOL. Once the female lays her eggs it takes about 2 weeks or so for them to hatch. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. > > These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted > plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. > Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first > time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. > > Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I > think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I > think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad > of bubble-gum? > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're > worse > > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my > > mystery snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed > > their water will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. > > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon > > your gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, > > if it's really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the > snails and > > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove > waste > > > from > > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > > week. If these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should > > > probably > be doing > > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > > parameters are close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a > > > lot different, > then you > > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my > > > Betta bowls. > > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their > > > water smelled foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did > > > their bowls get so STINKY? > > > ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

Amber, Don’t you go confusing the moon with the sun, now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! My eyes have been glued to a new game I just bought, I've beaten it nearly twice already, LOL. It's nice to vegg out now and then and not have to think about anything "important" except water changes and filter cleanings, not to mention feeding the fish ;) And yes tanning spray and beds are a big thing up here, but we don't get 6 months of night, we just get shorter days (about 8 hours of sunlight this time of year). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Dang... I forgot that Alaska has six months of night this time of the > year. > I guess the tanning spray and beds are a big thing up there. > > But if she hasn't been tanning out on the South Alaska beaches... why > hasn't > she been doing her emails? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! > > Lenny, > > Her, get a tan? At this time of year? Have your forgotten that there is no > sunlight up there at this time of the year? > > This is why there are no ground hogs in Alaska Each year the ground hogs > would come out of their dens and, not seeing their shadows would declare > that spring was almost here. Spring, on the other hand, would not show > with > a reasonable time causing upset to the populace thus causing them to > go out > and shoot to kill any ground hog they saw. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! > > So.. did you hang out on the white sand South Alaska beaches all week long > working on your tan? Oh wait... that's not white sand.. it's SNOW! At > least there's always that spray on tan stuff... or are tanning beds a big > thing up there? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! > > Sorry I've been on my week vacation and haven't been paying attention to > email like I normally do. > I don't normally time my snails, as they can lay eggs any time, sometimes > they will hold onto the male's sperm and wait until it's a "good time" to > lay eggs. So you never really know. When you notice your female > climbing out > of the top of your destop aquariums (hope you have a good lid on them, > LOL), > you will know that she is ready to lay eggs. I had an open top > aquarium and > used to lose females every now and then, I have since covered the top so > they can't "jump out" LOL. Once the female lays her eggs it takes about 2 > weeks or so for them to hatch. > > Amber > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. > > > > These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted > > plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. > > Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first > > time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. > > > > Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I > > think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I > > think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad > > of bubble-gum? > > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're > > worse > > > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > > > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my > > > mystery snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed > > > their water will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water > changes. > > > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon > > > your gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, > > > if it's really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high > heaven. > > > > > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the > > snails and > > > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove > > waste > > > > from > > > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > > > week. If these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should > > > > probably > > be doing > > > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > > > parameters are close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a > > > > lot different, > > then you > > > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > > SAY DEY > > > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my > > > > Betta bowls. > > > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their > > > > water smelled foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did > > > > their bowls get so STINKY? > > > > ~Kai > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46446	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Stinky!

That's why you're the Dr. House of computers. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Lenny, Frozen fingers from laying on the beach. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Dang... I forgot that Alaska has six months of night this time of the year. I guess the tanning spray and beds are a big thing up there. But if she hasn't been tanning out on the South Alaska beaches... why hasn't she been doing her emails? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Lenny, Her, get a tan? At this time of year? Have your forgotten that there is no sunlight up there at this time of the year? This is why there are no ground hogs in Alaska Each year the ground hogs would come out of their dens and, not seeing their shadows would declare that spring was almost here. Spring, on the other hand, would not show with a reasonable time causing upset to the populace thus causing them to go out and shoot to kill any ground hog they saw. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! So.. did you hang out on the white sand South Alaska beaches all week long working on your tan? Oh wait... that's not white sand.. it's SNOW! At least there's always that spray on tan stuff... or are tanning beds a big thing up there? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Stinky! Sorry I've been on my week vacation and haven't been paying attention to email like I normally do. I don't normally time my snails, as they can lay eggs any time, sometimes they will hold onto the male's sperm and wait until it's a "good time" to lay eggs. So you never really know. When you notice your female climbing out of the top of your destop aquariums (hope you have a good lid on them, LOL), you will know that she is ready to lay eggs. I had an open top aquarium and used to lose females every now and then, I have since covered the top so they can't "jump out" LOL. Once the female lays her eggs it takes about 2 weeks or so for them to hatch. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > Yes, Lenny, they're alive and well. > > These guys are in desktop aquariums with bare floors and potted > plants. I run the plants under water to get the poop out of the pots. > Yeah, the tank bottoms get pretty mungy but wow, this was the first > time they smelled so badly. XoP Yuck. > > Thanks, Amber. You're a huge help with these cute little snails. I > think I saw two of them having sex. I think I gave Mom the male and I > think I kept the female. How long might it be before she lays her wad > of bubble-gum? > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Snails are little pigs, they eat a lot and poop even more, they're > worse > > than Pleco's I think ;) LOL. > > I have to do more water changes in my 55 gallon that I raise my > > mystery snails in because they are such little pigs, as you noticed > > their water will smell very badly if you don't keep up on the water changes. > > The water will smell more like poop than water ;) When you siphon > > your gravel it should come out looking pretty dark from their poop, > > if it's really black you'll need to do more water changes more often. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Well... are the snails alive? A dead snail will stink to high heaven. > > > > > > Next, you doubled the bioload in each bowl when you added the > snails and > > > then the snails are eating the algae which was helping to remove > waste > > > from > > > the water so you will need to increase your PWC's that you do each > > > week. If these bowls are less than a few gallons each, you should > > > probably > be doing > > > 25% to 50% PWC's 2-3 times a week or more, IF your tap water > > > parameters are close to your bowl water parameters. If they are a > > > lot different, > then you > > > might have to do less than 25% PWC's and then do them daily. > > > > > > Are you vacuuming the gravel... if you have any? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > > > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stinky! > > > > > > As I've already told you, I have a mystery snail in each of my > > > Betta bowls. > > > I usually do a 25-33-ish% PWC once a week and this time their > > > water smelled foul. Rotten. What's going on in there? Why did > > > their bowls get so STINKY? > > > ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46447	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

I didn't know catfish needed to live in groups? Mine is a spotted looking little guy. I forgot that I also have zebra danios. I have six each of the tetra's, when I first got them they all stuck together like glue, but now they hang out all over the tank by themselves, the only time I see them all back together is first thing in the morning before I turn on the lights, they all huddle in the corner. My tank is planted and it would be almost impossible to catch a fish in there, especially the babies. I guess I will just wait and see what happens. I do have a female betta in there, but she decided she likes living in the sump which is located just behind the tank, I use to get her out and put her back in the main tank but she just jumps back into the sump so I have left her there. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Your other fish should already be feasting on the newborn fry, including their parents unless you have a well planted tank where the fry will instinctively hide. I don't think you should have many problems with overstocking but if you do, you would need to cull out the fry that do not look good (pretty) to you and especially any that have deformities. If you have a lot, you can freeze them and use them in some DIY fish gelfood in the near future. Most LFS will not take livebearers since they probably already have so many themselves but you can ask. If you do want to limit the breeding, then get a second tank and segregate the females into that tank and keep only the adult males in the big tank. The adult males are the prettiest anyhow... for most species in the animal kingdom... except for us men. :-( Whenever you need more platys, throw a few of your males in the female tank and let the festivities begin! :-P What kind of Corydoras sp. do you have? There are dozens, if not hundreds of species ranging in size from less than an inch to 4"-5". As far as I know, all Corydoras should be kept in groups, some of at least three or more, most preferring five or more. Having one by itself it kind of stressful to a shoaling fish. Since you have a big tank, work on getting him some friends, preferably of the same species but often they'll shoal with other similar Corydoras species. Here's more info on them, including profiles on many of the more common species. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm The BN Pleco and 3-spot Gourami are OK to keep by themselves. Your tetras should be kept in schools of six or more. Possibly, the two species will school together if you have less than six of each but your tank is large enough for a nice big school of each.. maybe 10 of each. The bigger the school, the more likely the fish will school and you'll get to see them swim around in unison. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! 90 gallons. I have some neon tetra's, glow light tetra's, guppies, platy's, a 3 spot gourami, a bristle nose pleco and a cory. I am so afraid that my tank is going to end up overstocked, in fact it probably already is with all the new babies. What does everyone do with all their babies? Do you give them to the LFS? Should I get a fish that will eat them, (I know that sounds terrible, because they are all so cute) but I am worried. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less than a year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males from the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or sisters. ;-) What size tank do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46448	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

Well, not all catfish... just Corydoras and possibly other species. Your BN Pleco is also a catfish but they do not need to be in groups. Zebra danio's are another fish that should be in schools of six or more. Sometimes, when schooling fish start to feel really comfortable in their surroundings, they'll quit schooling as often unless they get startled... probably what you are seeing when the lights come on. Are you turning on a room light first so they have a while of normal room lighting before the bright tank lights come on? I wonder if your much larger Gourami (at least it should be much larger) is chasing the Betta? Labyrinth fish are usually territorial and since they are both surface breathers, the upper areas become part of *their* territory. Of course, in a tank your size, you should have enough room for both of them unless you have a LOT of floating plants that limit the actual areas where the fish can surface for air. In that case, the Gourami could be chasing the Betta away so it escapes to the sump. If you do have a lot of floating plants or plants that are growing up to the surface, try to create several open stagnant areas for the labyrinth fish to be able to surface and breathe. If the Gourami is a male, it would also want a stagnant surface area for building a bubble nest to attract a female... never realizing that it's efforts will be in vain... kind of like how male bettas in bowls will build a bubble nest hoping that a female somehow parachutes into their bowl. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! I didn't know catfish needed to live in groups? Mine is a spotted looking little guy. I forgot that I also have zebra danios. I have six each of the tetra's, when I first got them they all stuck together like glue, but now they hang out all over the tank by themselves, the only time I see them all back together is first thing in the morning before I turn on the lights, they all huddle in the corner. My tank is planted and it would be almost impossible to catch a fish in there, especially the babies. I guess I will just wait and see what happens. I do have a female betta in there, but she decided she likes living in the sump which is located just behind the tank, I use to get her out and put her back in the main tank but she just jumps back into the sump so I have left her there. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Your other fish should already be feasting on the newborn fry, including their parents unless you have a well planted tank where the fry will instinctively hide. I don't think you should have many problems with overstocking but if you do, you would need to cull out the fry that do not look good (pretty) to you and especially any that have deformities. If you have a lot, you can freeze them and use them in some DIY fish gelfood in the near future. Most LFS will not take livebearers since they probably already have so many themselves but you can ask. If you do want to limit the breeding, then get a second tank and segregate the females into that tank and keep only the adult males in the big tank. The adult males are the prettiest anyhow... for most species in the animal kingdom... except for us men. :-( Whenever you need more platys, throw a few of your males in the female tank and let the festivities begin! :-P What kind of Corydoras sp. do you have? There are dozens, if not hundreds of species ranging in size from less than an inch to 4"-5". As far as I know, all Corydoras should be kept in groups, some of at least three or more, most preferring five or more. Having one by itself it kind of stressful to a shoaling fish. Since you have a big tank, work on getting him some friends, preferably of the same species but often they'll shoal with other similar Corydoras species. Here's more info on them, including profiles on many of the more common species. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm The BN Pleco and 3-spot Gourami are OK to keep by themselves. Your tetras should be kept in schools of six or more. Possibly, the two species will school together if you have less than six of each but your tank is large enough for a nice big school of each.. maybe 10 of each. The bigger the school, the more likely the fish will school and you'll get to see them swim around in unison. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! 90 gallons. I have some neon tetra's, glow light tetra's, guppies, platy's, a 3 spot gourami, a bristle nose pleco and a cory. I am so afraid that my tank is going to end up overstocked, in fact it probably already is with all the new babies. What does everyone do with all their babies? Do you give them to the LFS? Should I get a fish that will eat them, (I know that sounds terrible, because they are all so cute) but I am worried. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less than a year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males from the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or sisters. ;-) What size tank do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46449	From: noura_taweel	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: 3 week old ram fry

Thanks for the update Lainey, your babies sure look great and nice, you really did a good job bringing them this far, especially for a first-timer :) Keep us posted Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Here are a couple of photos of the babies at three weeks. They are > doing very well. They have become fairly jumpy, and dart away when I > approach. I did not realize that they would become so high-strung. > The plants are dense in their tank, so they have lots of cover. > > See photos in new photos or here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ > AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/list > > I am planning their next tank... > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46450	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

I do have 6 zebra danios. As far as the betta, she hasn't spent more than 1 minute in the main tank, I don't think the other fish have even seen her, the first time I put her in the tank, she swam straight up to the over flow and jump through, then I would catch her, throw her back in the main tank and she just immediately heads back over to the sump, I finally gave up. And actually, the tetra's are all grouped together before the lights are turned on, it's like there sleeping corner of the tank, I usually have the room lights on for about 1/2 hour before turning on the tank lights and once the room lights go on they start to disperse. I don't have any floating plants, I have lots of surface area. And yes, the gourami is really big, but so far very easy going. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Well, not all catfish... just Corydoras and possibly other species. Your BN Pleco is also a catfish but they do not need to be in groups. Zebra danio's are another fish that should be in schools of six or more. Sometimes, when schooling fish start to feel really comfortable in their surroundings, they'll quit schooling as often unless they get startled... probably what you are seeing when the lights come on. Are you turning on a room light first so they have a while of normal room lighting before the bright tank lights come on? I wonder if your much larger Gourami (at least it should be much larger) is chasing the Betta? Labyrinth fish are usually territorial and since they are both surface breathers, the upper areas become part of *their* territory. Of course, in a tank your size, you should have enough room for both of them unless you have a LOT of floating plants that limit the actual areas where the fish can surface for air. In that case, the Gourami could be chasing the Betta away so it escapes to the sump. If you do have a lot of floating plants or plants that are growing up to the surface, try to create several open stagnant areas for the labyrinth fish to be able to surface and breathe. If the Gourami is a male, it would also want a stagnant surface area for building a bubble nest to attract a female... never realizing that it's efforts will be in vain... kind of like how male bettas in bowls will build a bubble nest hoping that a female somehow parachutes into their bowl. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! I didn't know catfish needed to live in groups? Mine is a spotted looking little guy. I forgot that I also have zebra danios. I have six each of the tetra's, when I first got them they all stuck together like glue, but now they hang out all over the tank by themselves, the only time I see them all back together is first thing in the morning before I turn on the lights, they all huddle in the corner. My tank is planted and it would be almost impossible to catch a fish in there, especially the babies. I guess I will just wait and see what happens. I do have a female betta in there, but she decided she likes living in the sump which is located just behind the tank, I use to get her out and put her back in the main tank but she just jumps back into the sump so I have left her there. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Your other fish should already be feasting on the newborn fry, including their parents unless you have a well planted tank where the fry will instinctively hide. I don't think you should have many problems with overstocking but if you do, you would need to cull out the fry that do not look good (pretty) to you and especially any that have deformities. If you have a lot, you can freeze them and use them in some DIY fish gelfood in the near future. Most LFS will not take livebearers since they probably already have so many themselves but you can ask. If you do want to limit the breeding, then get a second tank and segregate the females into that tank and keep only the adult males in the big tank. The adult males are the prettiest anyhow... for most species in the animal kingdom... except for us men. :-( Whenever you need more platys, throw a few of your males in the female tank and let the festivities begin! :-P What kind of Corydoras sp. do you have? There are dozens, if not hundreds of species ranging in size from less than an inch to 4"-5". As far as I know, all Corydoras should be kept in groups, some of at least three or more, most preferring five or more. Having one by itself it kind of stressful to a shoaling fish. Since you have a big tank, work on getting him some friends, preferably of the same species but often they'll shoal with other similar Corydoras species. Here's more info on them, including profiles on many of the more common species. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm The BN Pleco and 3-spot Gourami are OK to keep by themselves. Your tetras should be kept in schools of six or more. Possibly, the two species will school together if you have less than six of each but your tank is large enough for a nice big school of each.. maybe 10 of each. The bigger the school, the more likely the fish will school and you'll get to see them swim around in unison. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! 90 gallons. I have some neon tetra's, glow light tetra's, guppies, platy's, a 3 spot gourami, a bristle nose pleco and a cory. I am so afraid that my tank is going to end up overstocked, in fact it probably already is with all the new babies. What does everyone do with all their babies? Do you give them to the LFS? Should I get a fish that will eat them, (I know that sounds terrible, because they are all so cute) but I am worried. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less than a year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males from the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or sisters. ;-) What size tank do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46451	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/4/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

OK.. Since one of your earlier posts was about your fear that your tank was getting overstocked, from what I've read so far, you are doing fine.... BUT... how many Platy fry do you have? If they number in the hundreds and are not being eaten by larger fish, then you could have a problem unless you cull some of them on your own... mainly the females since those would lead to more issues. Since you only have one decent sized fish, the 3-spot Gourami (grows to around 6" long) which will hopefully become a better fry eater in the future since you don't have a lot of plants for the fry to hide in. Some of your other adult fish, including other adult Platys will also eat some of the fry. If you just cut back normal feeding for a day or two after a new batch of fry are born and see how things go if you feel you have too many fry that are surviving... or just net a bunch of them as I mentioned earlier and freeze them for later use as food or as one of the ingredients in a DIY gel food. You could also net some and put them in the sump for potential food for your agoraphobic female Betta. Maybe you could name her Agora. ;-) As far as your tetra's, I must have misread earlier but I now see that they huddle when the lights are out but free swim without schooling when the lights are on. This is probably instinctive where they huddle in a corner to feel safer at night since they can't see any predators coming but then during the day, when they see that all is safe, they all go their separate way as they feel safe. You could test this by tapping on the glass to startle them and they will probably rush together as a school. Don't do this often as it can be considered stressful to some fish but I've done this test on my schooling fish in the past to show folks. Of course, if you've used tapping as a training tool, this will not work. For example, if you tap three times on my goldfish tank, they'll both come running for food since this is how I alert them that I am about to feed them so they'll be ready to gobble up all the food. So far, I haven't caught them doing any Karaoke to Tony Orlando and Dawn but I think they've been working on a re-write... "Tap three times on acrylic when you feed ussssssss... Twice on the top, if the answer is noooooooo". I bet you were thinking, "Tie a yellow ribbon 'round the Anacharis stalk..." LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! I do have 6 zebra danios. As far as the betta, she hasn't spent more than 1 minute in the main tank, I don't think the other fish have even seen her, the first time I put her in the tank, she swam straight up to the over flow and jump through, then I would catch her, throw her back in the main tank and she just immediately heads back over to the sump, I finally gave up. And actually, the tetra's are all grouped together before the lights are turned on, it's like there sleeping corner of the tank, I usually have the room lights on for about 1/2 hour before turning on the tank lights and once the room lights go on they start to disperse. I don't have any floating plants, I have lots of surface area. And yes, the gourami is really big, but so far very easy going. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Well, not all catfish... just Corydoras and possibly other species. Your BN Pleco is also a catfish but they do not need to be in groups. Zebra danio's are another fish that should be in schools of six or more. Sometimes, when schooling fish start to feel really comfortable in their surroundings, they'll quit schooling as often unless they get startled... probably what you are seeing when the lights come on. Are you turning on a room light first so they have a while of normal room lighting before the bright tank lights come on? I wonder if your much larger Gourami (at least it should be much larger) is chasing the Betta? Labyrinth fish are usually territorial and since they are both surface breathers, the upper areas become part of *their* territory. Of course, in a tank your size, you should have enough room for both of them unless you have a LOT of floating plants that limit the actual areas where the fish can surface for air. In that case, the Gourami could be chasing the Betta away so it escapes to the sump. If you do have a lot of floating plants or plants that are growing up to the surface, try to create several open stagnant areas for the labyrinth fish to be able to surface and breathe. If the Gourami is a male, it would also want a stagnant surface area for building a bubble nest to attract a female... never realizing that it's efforts will be in vain... kind of like how male bettas in bowls will build a bubble nest hoping that a female somehow parachutes into their bowl. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! I didn't know catfish needed to live in groups? Mine is a spotted looking little guy. I forgot that I also have zebra danios. I have six each of the tetra's, when I first got them they all stuck together like glue, but now they hang out all over the tank by themselves, the only time I see them all back together is first thing in the morning before I turn on the lights, they all huddle in the corner. My tank is planted and it would be almost impossible to catch a fish in there, especially the babies. I guess I will just wait and see what happens. I do have a female betta in there, but she decided she likes living in the sump which is located just behind the tank, I use to get her out and put her back in the main tank but she just jumps back into the sump so I have left her there. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Your other fish should already be feasting on the newborn fry, including their parents unless you have a well planted tank where the fry will instinctively hide. I don't think you should have many problems with overstocking but if you do, you would need to cull out the fry that do not look good (pretty) to you and especially any that have deformities. If you have a lot, you can freeze them and use them in some DIY fish gelfood in the near future. Most LFS will not take livebearers since they probably already have so many themselves but you can ask. If you do want to limit the breeding, then get a second tank and segregate the females into that tank and keep only the adult males in the big tank. The adult males are the prettiest anyhow... for most species in the animal kingdom... except for us men. :-( Whenever you need more platys, throw a few of your males in the female tank and let the festivities begin! :-P What kind of Corydoras sp. do you have? There are dozens, if not hundreds of species ranging in size from less than an inch to 4"-5". As far as I know, all Corydoras should be kept in groups, some of at least three or more, most preferring five or more. Having one by itself it kind of stressful to a shoaling fish. Since you have a big tank, work on getting him some friends, preferably of the same species but often they'll shoal with other similar Corydoras species. Here's more info on them, including profiles on many of the more common species. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm The BN Pleco and 3-spot Gourami are OK to keep by themselves. Your tetras should be kept in schools of six or more. Possibly, the two species will school together if you have less than six of each but your tank is large enough for a nice big school of each.. maybe 10 of each. The bigger the school, the more likely the fish will school and you'll get to see them swim around in unison. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! 90 gallons. I have some neon tetra's, glow light tetra's, guppies, platy's, a 3 spot gourami, a bristle nose pleco and a cory. I am so afraid that my tank is going to end up overstocked, in fact it probably already is with all the new babies. What does everyone do with all their babies? Do you give them to the LFS? Should I get a fish that will eat them, (I know that sounds terrible, because they are all so cute) but I am worried. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less than a year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males from the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or sisters. ;-) What size tank do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46452	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 2/5/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

LOL, you had me humming that song all day, argh! I have no idea how many babies are in there, it seems like every time I look in there I see more. They hide between the rocks, I don't have gravel, I have rocks on the bottom. The guppies are at it too, babies everywhere! I'm just not going to worry about it anymore, what happens, happens. Do guppies get more attractive and colorful as they age? My babies are all kind of bland looking. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! OK.. Since one of your earlier posts was about your fear that your tank was getting overstocked, from what I've read so far, you are doing fine.... BUT... how many Platy fry do you have? If they number in the hundreds and are not being eaten by larger fish, then you could have a problem unless you cull some of them on your own... mainly the females since those would lead to more issues. Since you only have one decent sized fish, the 3-spot Gourami (grows to around 6" long) which will hopefully become a better fry eater in the future since you don't have a lot of plants for the fry to hide in. Some of your other adult fish, including other adult Platys will also eat some of the fry. If you just cut back normal feeding for a day or two after a new batch of fry are born and see how things go if you feel you have too many fry that are surviving... or just net a bunch of them as I mentioned earlier and freeze them for later use as food or as one of the ingredients in a DIY gel food. You could also net some and put them in the sump for potential food for your agoraphobic female Betta. Maybe you could name her Agora. ;-) As far as your tetra's, I must have misread earlier but I now see that they huddle when the lights are out but free swim without schooling when the lights are on. This is probably instinctive where they huddle in a corner to feel safer at night since they can't see any predators coming but then during the day, when they see that all is safe, they all go their separate way as they feel safe. You could test this by tapping on the glass to startle them and they will probably rush together as a school. Don't do this often as it can be considered stressful to some fish but I've done this test on my schooling fish in the past to show folks. Of course, if you've used tapping as a training tool, this will not work. For example, if you tap three times on my goldfish tank, they'll both come running for food since this is how I alert them that I am about to feed them so they'll be ready to gobble up all the food. So far, I haven't caught them doing any Karaoke to Tony Orlando and Dawn but I think they've been working on a re-write... "Tap three times on acrylic when you feed ussssssss... Twice on the top, if the answer is noooooooo". I bet you were thinking, "Tie a yellow ribbon 'round the Anacharis stalk..." LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! I do have 6 zebra danios. As far as the betta, she hasn't spent more than 1 minute in the main tank, I don't think the other fish have even seen her, the first time I put her in the tank, she swam straight up to the over flow and jump through, then I would catch her, throw her back in the main tank and she just immediately heads back over to the sump, I finally gave up. And actually, the tetra's are all grouped together before the lights are turned on, it's like there sleeping corner of the tank, I usually have the room lights on for about 1/2 hour before turning on the tank lights and once the room lights go on they start to disperse. I don't have any floating plants, I have lots of surface area. And yes, the gourami is really big, but so far very easy going. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Well, not all catfish... just Corydoras and possibly other species. Your BN Pleco is also a catfish but they do not need to be in groups. Zebra danio's are another fish that should be in schools of six or more. Sometimes, when schooling fish start to feel really comfortable in their surroundings, they'll quit schooling as often unless they get startled... probably what you are seeing when the lights come on. Are you turning on a room light first so they have a while of normal room lighting before the bright tank lights come on? I wonder if your much larger Gourami (at least it should be much larger) is chasing the Betta? Labyrinth fish are usually territorial and since they are both surface breathers, the upper areas become part of *their* territory. Of course, in a tank your size, you should have enough room for both of them unless you have a LOT of floating plants that limit the actual areas where the fish can surface for air. In that case, the Gourami could be chasing the Betta away so it escapes to the sump. If you do have a lot of floating plants or plants that are growing up to the surface, try to create several open stagnant areas for the labyrinth fish to be able to surface and breathe. If the Gourami is a male, it would also want a stagnant surface area for building a bubble nest to attract a female... never realizing that it's efforts will be in vain... kind of like how male bettas in bowls will build a bubble nest hoping that a female somehow parachutes into their bowl. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! I didn't know catfish needed to live in groups? Mine is a spotted looking little guy. I forgot that I also have zebra danios. I have six each of the tetra's, when I first got them they all stuck together like glue, but now they hang out all over the tank by themselves, the only time I see them all back together is first thing in the morning before I turn on the lights, they all huddle in the corner. My tank is planted and it would be almost impossible to catch a fish in there, especially the babies. I guess I will just wait and see what happens. I do have a female betta in there, but she decided she likes living in the sump which is located just behind the tank, I use to get her out and put her back in the main tank but she just jumps back into the sump so I have left her there. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Your other fish should already be feasting on the newborn fry, including their parents unless you have a well planted tank where the fry will instinctively hide. I don't think you should have many problems with overstocking but if you do, you would need to cull out the fry that do not look good (pretty) to you and especially any that have deformities. If you have a lot, you can freeze them and use them in some DIY fish gelfood in the near future. Most LFS will not take livebearers since they probably already have so many themselves but you can ask. If you do want to limit the breeding, then get a second tank and segregate the females into that tank and keep only the adult males in the big tank. The adult males are the prettiest anyhow... for most species in the animal kingdom... except for us men. :-( Whenever you need more platys, throw a few of your males in the female tank and let the festivities begin! :-P What kind of Corydoras sp. do you have? There are dozens, if not hundreds of species ranging in size from less than an inch to 4"-5". As far as I know, all Corydoras should be kept in groups, some of at least three or more, most preferring five or more. Having one by itself it kind of stressful to a shoaling fish. Since you have a big tank, work on getting him some friends, preferably of the same species but often they'll shoal with other similar Corydoras species. Here's more info on them, including profiles on many of the more common species. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm The BN Pleco and 3-spot Gourami are OK to keep by themselves. Your tetras should be kept in schools of six or more. Possibly, the two species will school together if you have less than six of each but your tank is large enough for a nice big school of each.. maybe 10 of each. The bigger the school, the more likely the fish will school and you'll get to see them swim around in unison. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! 90 gallons. I have some neon tetra's, glow light tetra's, guppies, platy's, a 3 spot gourami, a bristle nose pleco and a cory. I am so afraid that my tank is going to end up overstocked, in fact it probably already is with all the new babies. What does everyone do with all their babies? Do you give them to the LFS? Should I get a fish that will eat them, (I know that sounds terrible, because they are all so cute) but I am worried. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less than a year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males from the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or sisters. ;-) What size tank do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46453	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Questions on new tank for ram fry

So now I have a 20g long for my ram fry but need to set it up. I want to add substrate so that I can have plants in there. If I move all my filters and sponges from the current 10g, will it be OK to provide fresh new substrate in addition and the biofilter will still be established, or will the new substrate screw things up somehow? May I have permission to downgrade from once per day WCs to maybe twice a week for WCs in the 20? :) Should I start adding regular adult flake and frozen foods to the live baby brine and First Bites? The fry are 3.5 weeks now... Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46454	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: LED lights from Marineland

Marineland has come out with these relatively inexpensive LED lights that are for use in both fresh, planted and marine tanks. I think the one for a 20g is $100 or so and lasts for three to five years with no light changes required. They look totally amazing, they are very streamlined and svelt, and are selling fast. Does anyone know if they work well? They are only one watt per bulb, so they save on electric, but I can't seem to understand how the one watt LED compares to other lighting. They supposedly have deep penetrating capacity for corals and plants. Here is a link for them: http://allmypetsupplies.com/p-5151- marineland-led-aquarium-lights.aspx Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46455	From: environmom95112	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Power Compact light parts needed

My straight pin power compact plugs rusted! Does anyone know where I could get replacements? And in the future, how can I keep them from rusting again? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46456	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry

Yes, moving all of your filters and media from the 10G to the 20G will transfer nearly all of the good Nitrifying bacteria. Just do the filter/media change at the same time as you move the fish, either right before or right after. Do not leave the filters on either tank without fish for more than an hour or so or the N-bacteria will start to die off due to lack of ammonia. No you do not have permission to downgrade your PWC's. ;-) Why??? Because the fry are growing rapidly and will continue to grow at a very fast rate in their first year so the bioload on the 20G is already much more than what the bioload was on the 10G when the fry were first hatching. As you can already see, the fry are 10X to 100X larger than they were when first free swimming. Technically speaking, a proper water volume for each fry would be the same amount of water volume needed as if they were fully grown adults (amount varies depending on species)... but we know this isn't practical for most folks so a smaller tank is used with more frequent PWC's to mimic a larger water volume. The PWC's will also remove/dilute the growth inhibiting hormones from the water so that your fry do not suffer from stunting. Have you been testing your water for all of the normal tests like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH? It would be nice if we had test kits for hormone levels, etc., but we just have to acknowledge that these hormones exist as has been scientifically proven in studies done for food-fish aquaculture programs. These multi-million dollar enterprises and multi-billion dollar industries have done the testing for us and learned that they have to have a constant flow of fresh water going into the ponds and/or large and expensive filtration systems capable of removing the hormones or the food-fish would be stunted and unsalable. Ray and others can comment on the feeding since I've never raised ram fry before. If I ever do, I'm hoping to remember much of this thread since they have given some very detailed info to all of us so far. I've also saved the thread in my Favorites folder for breeding Rams or for sending others back to this thread in the future. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions on new tank for ram fry So now I have a 20g long for my ram fry but need to set it up. I want to add substrate so that I can have plants in there. If I move all my filters and sponges from the current 10g, will it be OK to provide fresh new substrate in addition and the biofilter will still be established, or will the new substrate screw things up somehow? May I have permission to downgrade from once per day WCs to maybe twice a week for WCs in the 20? :) Should I start adding regular adult flake and frozen foods to the live baby brine and First Bites? The fry are 3.5 weeks now... Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46457	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry

Hi Lainey,   My vote would be why make a hard job harder?  Keep the floating plants you have in the 10 and incorporate them in the 20 long but no gravel or rooted plants yet. Wait about 3 months when the fry can live, without issue, with a regular PF.   You and I both know that you can vacuum the bottom of a bare tank in about 5 minutes. Right now YOU and those PWC's are the primary mechanical filtration or should be.  If your running a PF in there without the fry getting caught in it, your getting away with murder.  We thought you were using only sponge filters?  If this is so, simply move them to the 20 long.  Although it's been a while, you have not mentioned the tanks temperature?  Still at 82o I hope?   Bill --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions on new tank for ram fry To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 11:16 AM So now I have a 20g long for my ram fry but need to set it up. I want to add substrate so that I can have plants in there. If I move  all my filters and sponges from the current 10g, will it be OK to  provide fresh new substrate in addition and the biofilter will still  be established, or will the new substrate screw things up somehow? May I have permission to downgrade from once per day WCs to maybe  twice a week for WCs in the 20? :) Should I start adding regular adult flake and frozen foods to the  live baby brine and First Bites? The fry are 3.5 weeks now... Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46458	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Home made sinking pellets

Full of questions today... Does anyone know how to make sinking pellets? What makes them sink? If not, then, if I were to make the regular frozen fish food with gelatin, would this be OK for ground feeders like hillstream loaches and cory catfish? IOW would it reach them in sufficient quantities? I have trouble keeping track of what the ground feeders get when I feed frozen, whereas with the commercial sinking pellets I can see them eating. However, I can't find a sinking pellet with ingredients that I like as I prefer not to feed ethoxyquin and colorants and MSG, which most of them contain to some degree. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46459	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry

I have two filters but one is a HOB covered with a sponge on the intake. So there's a sponge filter and a HOB with sponge. Temps still 84. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 12:25 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > My vote would be why make a hard job harder? Keep the floating > plants you have in the 10 and incorporate them in the 20 long but > no gravel or rooted plants yet. Wait about 3 months when the fry > can live, without issue, with a regular PF. > > You and I both know that you can vacuum the bottom of a bare tank > in about 5 minutes. Right now YOU and those PWC's are the primary > mechanical filtration or should be. If your running a PF in there > without the fry getting caught in it, your getting away with > murder. We thought you were using only sponge filters? If this is > so, simply move them to the 20 long. Although it's been a while, > you have not mentioned the tanks temperature? Still at 82o I hope? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions on new tank for ram fry > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 11:16 AM > > So now I have a 20g long for my ram fry but need to set it up. > > I want to add substrate so that I can have plants in there. If I move > all my filters and sponges from the current 10g, will it be OK to > provide fresh new substrate in addition and the biofilter will still > be established, or will the new substrate screw things up somehow? > > May I have permission to downgrade from once per day WCs to maybe > twice a week for WCs in the 20? :) > > Should I start adding regular adult flake and frozen foods to the > live baby brine and First Bites? > > The fry are 3.5 weeks now... > > Thank you! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46460	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: LED lights from Marineland

Lainey, In the description it states that the output is 80 lumens per watt (or LED, in this case). It looks like there are 16 LED's giving a white light--6000K, which would give you 1280 lumens. To make this calculation easier, it states later on that the fixture is good for low light loving plants in FW, and lists some. \\Steve// PS. Not Gouldian finches, but zebras presented in this video that you may or may not have seen yet. They are "playing" Les Paul guitars (which may or may not mean anything to you, but they are highly thought of guitarrs). http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/willgompertz/2010/02/40_wild_birds_p lay_a_gibson_le.html http://tinyurl.com/ycvpel9 scs -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] LED lights from Marineland Marineland has come out with these relatively inexpensive LED lights that are for use in both fresh, planted and marine tanks. I think the one for a 20g is $100 or so and lasts for three to five years with no light changes required. They look totally amazing, they are very streamlined and svelt, and are selling fast. Does anyone know if they work well? They are only one watt per bulb, so they save on electric, but I can't seem to understand how the one watt LED compares to other lighting. They supposedly have deep penetrating capacity for corals and plants. Here is a link for them: http://allmypetsupplies.com/p-5151- marineland-led-aquarium-lights.aspx Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46461	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry

Your batting a 1000 Lady! Keep in the good work! Bill----with a smile and a lot of snow! --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions on new tank for ram fry > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 12:25 PM > I have two filters but one is a HOB > covered with a sponge on the  > intake. So there's a sponge filter and a HOB with sponge. > > Temps still 84. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 12:25 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > > > My vote would be why make a hard job harder?  > Keep the floating  > > plants you have in the 10 and incorporate them in the > 20 long but  > > no gravel or rooted plants yet.  Wait about 3 > months when the fry  > > can live, without issue, with a regular PF. > > > > You and I both know that you can vacuum the bottom of > a bare tank  > > in about 5 minutes. Right now YOU and those PWC's are > the primary  > > mechanical filtration or should be.  If your > running a PF in there  > > without the fry getting caught in it, your getting > away with  > > murder.  We thought you were using only sponge > filters?  If this is  > > so, simply move them to the 20 long.  Although > it's been a while,  > > you have not mentioned the tanks temperature?  > Still at 82o I hope? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions on new tank for ram > fry > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 11:16 AM > > > > So now I have a 20g long for my ram fry but need to > set it up. > > > > I want to add substrate so that I can have plants in > there. If I move > > all my filters and sponges from the current 10g, will > it be OK to > > provide fresh new substrate in addition and the > biofilter will still > > be established, or will the new substrate screw things > up somehow? > > > > May I have permission to downgrade from once per day > WCs to maybe > > twice a week for WCs in the 20? :) > > > > Should I start adding regular adult flake and frozen > foods to the > > live baby brine and First Bites? > > > > The fry are 3.5 weeks now... > > > > Thank you! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46462	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: LED lights from Marineland

I saw this zebra finch guitar thing! Too amazing! So I don't think the LEDs would work for high light planted tanks then, too bad, they are really nice... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 12:31 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > In the description it states that the output is 80 lumens per watt > (or LED, > in this case). It looks like there are 16 LED's giving a white > light--6000K, > which would give you 1280 lumens. To make this calculation easier, > it states > later on that the fixture is good for low light loving plants in > FW, and > lists some. > > \\Steve// > > PS. Not Gouldian finches, but zebras presented in this video that > you may or > may not have seen yet. They are "playing" Les Paul guitars (which > may or may > not mean anything to you, but they are highly thought of guitarrs). > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/willgompertz/ > 2010/02/40_wild_birds_p > lay_a_gibson_le.html > > http://tinyurl.com/ycvpel9 > > scs > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] LED lights from Marineland > > Marineland has come out with these relatively inexpensive LED lights > that are for use in both fresh, planted and marine tanks. I think the > one for a 20g is $100 or so and lasts for three to five years with no > light changes required. They look totally amazing, they are very > streamlined and svelt, and are selling fast. Does anyone know if they > work well? They are only one watt per bulb, so they save on electric, > but I can't seem to understand how the one watt LED compares to other > lighting. They supposedly have deep penetrating capacity for corals > and plants. > > Here is a link for them: http://allmypetsupplies.com/p-5151- > marineland-led-aquarium-lights.aspx > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46463	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: LED lights from Marineland

There are LED arrays that will work for High Light loving plants, However, your budget may not be enough to afford them quite yet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] LED lights from Marineland I saw this zebra finch guitar thing! Too amazing! So I don't think the LEDs would work for high light planted tanks then, too bad, they are really nice... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 12:31 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > In the description it states that the output is 80 lumens per watt > (or LED, > in this case). It looks like there are 16 LED's giving a white > light--6000K, > which would give you 1280 lumens. To make this calculation easier, > it states > later on that the fixture is good for low light loving plants in > FW, and > lists some. > > \\Steve// > > PS. Not Gouldian finches, but zebras presented in this video that > you may or > may not have seen yet. They are "playing" Les Paul guitars (which > may or may > not mean anything to you, but they are highly thought of guitarrs). > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/willgompertz/ > 2010/02/40_wild_birds_p > lay_a_gibson_le.html > > http://tinyurl.com/ycvpel9 > > scs > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:23 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] LED lights from Marineland > > Marineland has come out with these relatively inexpensive LED lights > that are for use in both fresh, planted and marine tanks. I think the > one for a 20g is $100 or so and lasts for three to five years with no > light changes required. They look totally amazing, they are very > streamlined and svelt, and are selling fast. Does anyone know if they > work well? They are only one watt per bulb, so they save on electric, > but I can't seem to understand how the one watt LED compares to other > lighting. They supposedly have deep penetrating capacity for corals > and plants. > > Here is a link for them: http://allmypetsupplies.com/p-5151- > marineland-led-aquarium-lights.aspx > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: LED lights from Marineland

Like the description says, it's mostly for a fish only marine tank or a low-light FW planted tank (or fish only, I imagine). If your tank has low-light plants, it sounds like it would be fine... but read on! The middle strip of blue (possibly actinic) LED's will not do as much for plants since it's more for bringing out the fluorescent colors in SW fish and corals but I'm sure it might help a little. Some of the below links say these lights would be suitable as moonlighting and the fixture even has a separate on/off switch for the blue LED's... possibly for that purpose. LED lighting is definitely the future of aquarium lighting and they have quite extensive (and expensive) systems for reef tanks so this could be the beginning of the lower prices that should happen as LED becomes more commonplace. Since you mentioned around $100.00, I'm guessing you're interested in the 18" fixture (expandable legs to 24" tank for $116.95) and that fixture has only 12 LED's with 4 of the 12 being the blue (possibly actinic) LED's so you only have 8 one watt LED bulbs. I know that sounds low but each LED bulb does put out 80 lumens, per the web page although other pages only say 75 lumens, so you would have a total of up to 640 lumens of lighting in the 6,000K spectrum (I don't like how they called it "6K" instead of 6,000K but I'm sure they meant 6,000K). That is NOT very much light. A single 18", 15W, 6,500K (Daylight), T-8 fluorescent tube like this http://www.servicelighting.com/EiKo-15522-F15T8-D-T8-Straight-Linear-Fluores cent-Light-Bulb puts out 700 lumens (other more expensive bulbs could put out more lumens). This would be a light bulb suitable for a 10G tank with low to medium low light plants. A double tube fixture would be suitable for a 20G tank and would have 1,400 lumens. Replacement bulbs, every six months would be just a few dollars each at WalMart so after three years, your bulb cost would be $18.00 for a single bulb strip to $36.00 for a double bulb strip. I don't like how they say, "This is has similar light intensity of a twin tube strip light but uses less energy." since the above paragraph clearly refutes this statement since even the cheapest 18" 6,000K range single fluorescent tube would have at least 700 lumens so the 18" fixture isn't close to the lumen output of a double tube fluorescent fixture. I'd do more Googling and reading in planted tank forums to see what other users say about Marineland's venture into this lighting system and whether this lighting is doing what the advertising page claims. I tried to find this lighting on DrsFosterSmith.com but they didn't have it. I trust their product descriptions more than most other sites. I did find this page which has the SAME lighting at a MUCH lower price than the site you found... just $89.99 for the 18" fixture. That's almost $30.00 less!!! ;-) http://www.petsolutions.com/Marineland-LED-Aquarium-Lights+I47432990+C1.aspx MarineDepot.com also has this at a lower price than your link. http://www.marinedepot.com/Marineland_Double_Bright_LED_Light_Fixture_Flexib le_Mount_LED_Light_Fixtures-Instant_Ocean-AS32990-FILTFILDFX-vi.html and has a nice description but they say the smallest fixture only has nine bulbs (6 white, 3 blue) instead of 12 as in the other ads so I'm not sure which is correct. MarineDepot.com is a reputable and well known website. Two different sites that I looked at had an image of the smallest fixture with only nine bulbs, not 12 so I'm not sure what to think about that. Only six white LED's would be even less lumens than the eight that I figured on with my above comparison to standard fluorescent tubes. This site also shows a clear image with only nine bulbs total. http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Co de=ML-32991&Category_Code=ma-led&Store_Code=PA BUT the best price is still at the PetSolutions.com link in the above paragraph and they have this in their description, "There are three models an 18"L with 12 LED's, a 24"L with 18 LED's and a 36"L with 24 LED's.", so at least they shouldn't be able to push off a nine LED model on you for the $89.99 price. ;-) Now... all this said, Marineland may still be a good company but it's a lot different than the Marineland company that existed just a few years ago and built a pretty good reputation for innovative and reasonably reputable products in the past. They were bought out by the same conglomerate that owns Tetra... United Pet Group, http://www.unitedpetgroup.com/, which is owned by yet another conglomerate, http://www.spectrumbrands.com/. I'm not saying either Marineland or any of these parent conglomerates are good or bad... just that Marineland is not the same company as they were a few years ago. We know that their Chief Science Officer, Dr. Tim Hovanec, left Marineland during this merger/acquisition and formed http://DrTimsAquatics.com so I'm not sure how much other brain-drain Marineland suffered during the merger... but losing Dr. Tim was a HUGE brain drain on the company. He is the inventor of the Bio-Wheel, Bio-Spira (the patented first real live and correct nitrifying bacteria in a bottle), now called "Dr. Tim's One And Only" on his website but Tetra also sells their version since Marineland was co-owner of the patent. He also has several other patents to his credit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] LED lights from Marineland Marineland has come out with these relatively inexpensive LED lights that are for use in both fresh, planted and marine tanks. I think the one for a 20g is $100 or so and lasts for three to five years with no light changes required. They look totally amazing, they are very streamlined and svelt, and are selling fast. Does anyone know if they work well? They are only one watt per bulb, so they save on electric, but I can't seem to understand how the one watt LED compares to other lighting. They supposedly have deep penetrating capacity for corals and plants. Here is a link for them: http://allmypetsupplies.com/p-5151-marineland-led-aquarium-lights.aspx Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46465	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry

Lainey, Adding substrate to this 20 gallon will only serve to make cleaning of the bottom so much more difficult -- Have you given any thought to that part of your maintenance? It's so much easier to syphon off a bare bottom. If you must have rooted plants in this tank right now, why don't you consider clay flowerpots for them? You never mentioned anything about "All my filters" before this. A power filter having a sponge wrapped around the intake is not the same thing as a sponge filter which has so much less water drawing capacity. You're lucky that when your fry were smaller that they weren't sucked up against this power filter sponge where they wouldn't have escaped. At the size your fry are at now, we know that they are much more than double the size they first were several weeks ago, yet the 20 gallon tank is only twice as large in capacity than the 10 gallon. Each fry really has less water to itself, for its size, than it did when it was first free-swimming. I cannot recommend reducing the PWC's -- for just the same reasons that Lenny gives. I don't know what you have in mind for frozen foods for the fry, but if you're thinking about adding regular flake food to their diet, you'll need to grind it up a bit between your fingers before feeding it; they probably wouldn't be able to handle whole flakes yet. If you do start feeding crushed flake, do so sparingly at first as it too (just as with freeze-dried foods) will absorb some moisture even if it's not nearly as much as these other different foods I'm mentioning, and can have adverse effects on fry (causing deaths) until they get use to it. Best results are had when you mix foods at first (BBS and crushed flake), using only half the normal amount of each, until you can wean them onto the larger foods. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46466	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Power Compact light parts needed

Try here. http://ahsupply.com/ They have lots of DIY aquarium lighting stuff.. mostly lighting kits but they have a parts page with a phone number. "A H Supply stocks a complete line of replacement parts for our Bright Kits. Please call to order 1-585-657-4794". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of environmom95112 Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Compact light parts needed My straight pin power compact plugs rusted! Does anyone know where I could get replacements? And in the future, how can I keep them from rusting again? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46467	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets

The various batches of DIY gel-foods that I've made over the years sinks. It's not as hard as the pellets or thins or discs that are commonly sold for bottom feeders... but since I messed up my last batch of gel food and had to bake it to get it to harden, I guess I could have baked it even more until it was completely hard instead of taking it out while it was still gel like. The problem would be making the right shapes that you might want. With my gel food, while it was still soft enough, I cut it into the 2" x 2" squares and then freeze them. Then I take one square out at a time and keep it in a little plastic container in my fridge and pinch/peel off pieces to feed the fish as needed. It's the HARD discs that smaller fish can't eat and it gives the bottom feeders time to find the food and then hang around on top of it gnawing on it and/or eating it as it slowly dissolves. I guess if you baked (low temperature since you are really just trying to evaporate all the water out) the gel food and then once it hardened, broke it into pieces, that would also work. Just start off with a 1/4" to 1/2" thick liquid layer and bake at low temp until it's a hard thin layer of food. I put aluminum foil down on the baking pan and then cut the sections when I took it out the oven and then stuck the entire pan into my freezer. Once it was frozen, I was able to snap the sections apart since they were already scored. You could try doing this in 1/2" squares which would make a nice sized wafer/thin for the bottom feeders... not as pretty as a round thin/crisp but I don't think the fish care if their food is round or square. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets Full of questions today... Does anyone know how to make sinking pellets? What makes them sink? If not, then, if I were to make the regular frozen fish food with gelatin, would this be OK for ground feeders like hillstream loaches and cory catfish? IOW would it reach them in sufficient quantities? I have trouble keeping track of what the ground feeders get when I feed frozen, whereas with the commercial sinking pellets I can see them eating. However, I can't find a sinking pellet with ingredients that I like as I prefer not to feed ethoxyquin and colorants and MSG, which most of them contain to some degree. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46468	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry

yes and they seem good... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Have you been testing your water for all of the normal tests like > ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46469	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets

Thank you, Lenny, this is helpful. I am going to try it. Can you or others direct me to some very good quality recipes? Also, what about a high quality vitamin/mineral supplement to add to DIY foods? Thanks again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > The various batches of DIY gel-foods that I've made over the years > sinks. > It's not as hard as the pellets or thins or discs that are commonly > sold for > bottom feeders... but since I messed up my last batch of gel food > and had to > bake it to get it to harden, I guess I could have baked it even > more until > it was completely hard instead of taking it out while it was still > gel like. > The problem would be making the right shapes that you might want. > With my > gel food, while it was still soft enough, I cut it into the 2" x 2" > squares > and then freeze them. Then I take one square out at a time and keep > it in a > little plastic container in my fridge and pinch/peel off pieces to > feed the > fish as needed. > > It's the HARD discs that smaller fish can't eat and it gives the > bottom > feeders time to find the food and then hang around on top of it > gnawing on > it and/or eating it as it slowly dissolves. I guess if you baked (low > temperature since you are really just trying to evaporate all the > water out) > the gel food and then once it hardened, broke it into pieces, that > would > also work. Just start off with a 1/4" to 1/2" thick liquid layer > and bake > at low temp until it's a hard thin layer of food. I put aluminum > foil down > on the baking pan and then cut the sections when I took it out the > oven and > then stuck the entire pan into my freezer. Once it was frozen, I > was able > to snap the sections apart since they were already scored. You > could try > doing this in 1/2" squares which would make a nice sized wafer/thin > for the > bottom feeders... not as pretty as a round thin/crisp but I don't > think the > fish care if their food is round or square. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > Full of questions today... > > Does anyone know how to make sinking pellets? What makes them sink? > > If not, then, if I were to make the regular frozen fish food with > gelatin, > would this be OK for ground feeders like hillstream loaches and cory > catfish? IOW would it reach them in sufficient quantities? I have > trouble > keeping track of what the ground feeders get when I feed frozen, > whereas > with the commercial sinking pellets I can see them eating. However, > I can't > find a sinking pellet with ingredients that I like as I prefer not > to feed > ethoxyquin and colorants and MSG, which most of them contain to > some degree. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46470	From: environmom95112	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Newbie questions on planted tanks

Hi there, I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted tank to be successful. Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46471	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets

You must not read all the posts out here. ;-) I know.. most people don't. We just had a thread on this topic in the past week or so. Thread starts here: http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46378 My first reply with links to DIY foods in the middle of this reply: http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46400 Oh yeah.. this site was down when I posted that reply last week so I left the link out but it's back up now. http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets Thank you, Lenny, this is helpful. I am going to try it. Can you or others direct me to some very good quality recipes? Also, what about a high quality vitamin/mineral supplement to add to DIY foods? Thanks again, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > The various batches of DIY gel-foods that I've made over the years > sinks. > It's not as hard as the pellets or thins or discs that are commonly > sold for bottom feeders... but since I messed up my last batch of gel > food and had to bake it to get it to harden, I guess I could have > baked it even more until it was completely hard instead of taking it > out while it was still gel like. > The problem would be making the right shapes that you might want. > With my > gel food, while it was still soft enough, I cut it into the 2" x 2" > squares > and then freeze them. Then I take one square out at a time and keep it > in a little plastic container in my fridge and pinch/peel off pieces > to feed the fish as needed. > > It's the HARD discs that smaller fish can't eat and it gives the > bottom feeders time to find the food and then hang around on top of it > gnawing on it and/or eating it as it slowly dissolves. I guess if you > baked (low temperature since you are really just trying to evaporate > all the water out) the gel food and then once it hardened, broke it > into pieces, that would also work. Just start off with a 1/4" to 1/2" > thick liquid layer and bake at low temp until it's a hard thin layer > of food. I put aluminum foil down on the baking pan and then cut the > sections when I took it out the oven and then stuck the entire pan > into my freezer. Once it was frozen, I was able to snap the sections > apart since they were already scored. You could try doing this in 1/2" > squares which would make a nice sized wafer/thin for the bottom > feeders... not as pretty as a round thin/crisp but I don't think the > fish care if their food is round or square. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:24 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > Full of questions today... > > Does anyone know how to make sinking pellets? What makes them sink? > > If not, then, if I were to make the regular frozen fish food with > gelatin, would this be OK for ground feeders like hillstream loaches > and cory catfish? IOW would it reach them in sufficient quantities? I > have trouble keeping track of what the ground feeders get when I feed > frozen, whereas with the commercial sinking pellets I can see them > eating. However, I can't find a sinking pellet with ingredients that I > like as I prefer not to feed ethoxyquin and colorants and MSG, which > most of them contain to some degree. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46472	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets

Sorry, Lenny - I have my own yahoo group and I hate having to repeat myself. The truth is, I did read this thread, which is what got me thinking to DIY my foods, but I did not follow the links as I wasn't far enough along in my thinking... Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You must not read all the posts out here. ;-) I know.. most people > don't. > We just had a thread on this topic in the past week or so. > > Thread starts here: > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46378 > > My first reply with links to DIY foods in the middle of this reply: > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46400 > > Oh yeah.. this site was down when I posted that reply last week so > I left > the link out but it's back up now. > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > Thank you, Lenny, this is helpful. I am going to try it. > > Can you or others direct me to some very good quality recipes? > > Also, what about a high quality vitamin/mineral supplement to add > to DIY > foods? > > Thanks again, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > The various batches of DIY gel-foods that I've made over the years > > sinks. > > It's not as hard as the pellets or thins or discs that are commonly > > sold for bottom feeders... but since I messed up my last batch of > gel > > food and had to bake it to get it to harden, I guess I could have > > baked it even more until it was completely hard instead of taking it > > out while it was still gel like. > > The problem would be making the right shapes that you might want. > > With my > > gel food, while it was still soft enough, I cut it into the 2" x 2" > > squares > > and then freeze them. Then I take one square out at a time and > keep it > > in a little plastic container in my fridge and pinch/peel off pieces > > to feed the fish as needed. > > > > It's the HARD discs that smaller fish can't eat and it gives the > > bottom feeders time to find the food and then hang around on top > of it > > gnawing on it and/or eating it as it slowly dissolves. I guess if > you > > baked (low temperature since you are really just trying to evaporate > > all the water out) the gel food and then once it hardened, broke it > > into pieces, that would also work. Just start off with a 1/4" to > 1/2" > > thick liquid layer and bake at low temp until it's a hard thin layer > > of food. I put aluminum foil down on the baking pan and then cut the > > sections when I took it out the oven and then stuck the entire pan > > into my freezer. Once it was frozen, I was able to snap the sections > > apart since they were already scored. You could try doing this in > 1/2" > > squares which would make a nice sized wafer/thin for the bottom > > feeders... not as pretty as a round thin/crisp but I don't think the > > fish care if their food is round or square. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO > DAT SAY > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:24 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > > > Full of questions today... > > > > Does anyone know how to make sinking pellets? What makes them sink? > > > > If not, then, if I were to make the regular frozen fish food with > > gelatin, would this be OK for ground feeders like hillstream loaches > > and cory catfish? IOW would it reach them in sufficient > quantities? I > > have trouble keeping track of what the ground feeders get when I > feed > > frozen, whereas with the commercial sinking pellets I can see them > > eating. However, I can't find a sinking pellet with ingredients > that I > > like as I prefer not to feed ethoxyquin and colorants and MSG, which > > most of them contain to some degree. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46473	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Winner for Superbowl----SAINTS

Hey Lenny, Got my New Orleans tee-shirt ready for the big party tomorrow. You heard it first here----SAINTS WIN!!!!!!. Seems like a lock now that all the TV people and announcers are saying that Manning and the Colts have already won the game. Those clowns haven't picked a winner in years. The Margaritas are chilling and the Shrimp are on the Barbie. Go Saints!!! My 50 gallon sprung a leak a couple of weeks ago but still has water covering the gravel. I want to transfer the gravel to a new tank . Do I need to wash it before I move it? Will it still contain any good bacteria that could speed up the cycling process? The canister filter has the water still in it but guessing that I probably need to start from scratch here. Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46474	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets

That's why I started my blog a few years back to create "articles" for my most common replies so I can just point someone to that reply instead of retyping the same thing over and over. I need to do an article on the DIY foods, growing our own foods, etc... sort of compiling stuff that is already spread out all over the net already... with some of my own personal info included. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets Sorry, Lenny - I have my own yahoo group and I hate having to repeat myself. The truth is, I did read this thread, which is what got me thinking to DIY my foods, but I did not follow the links as I wasn't far enough along in my thinking... Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You must not read all the posts out here. ;-) I know.. most people > don't. > We just had a thread on this topic in the past week or so. > > Thread starts here: > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46378 > > My first reply with links to DIY foods in the middle of this reply: > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46400 > > Oh yeah.. this site was down when I posted that reply last week so I > left the link out but it's back up now. > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > Thank you, Lenny, this is helpful. I am going to try it. > > Can you or others direct me to some very good quality recipes? > > Also, what about a high quality vitamin/mineral supplement to add to > DIY foods? > > Thanks again, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > The various batches of DIY gel-foods that I've made over the years > > sinks. > > It's not as hard as the pellets or thins or discs that are commonly > > sold for bottom feeders... but since I messed up my last batch of > gel > > food and had to bake it to get it to harden, I guess I could have > > baked it even more until it was completely hard instead of taking it > > out while it was still gel like. > > The problem would be making the right shapes that you might want. > > With my > > gel food, while it was still soft enough, I cut it into the 2" x 2" > > squares > > and then freeze them. Then I take one square out at a time and > keep it > > in a little plastic container in my fridge and pinch/peel off pieces > > to feed the fish as needed. > > > > It's the HARD discs that smaller fish can't eat and it gives the > > bottom feeders time to find the food and then hang around on top > of it > > gnawing on it and/or eating it as it slowly dissolves. I guess if > you > > baked (low temperature since you are really just trying to evaporate > > all the water out) the gel food and then once it hardened, broke it > > into pieces, that would also work. Just start off with a 1/4" to > 1/2" > > thick liquid layer and bake at low temp until it's a hard thin layer > > of food. I put aluminum foil down on the baking pan and then cut the > > sections when I took it out the oven and then stuck the entire pan > > into my freezer. Once it was frozen, I was able to snap the sections > > apart since they were already scored. You could try doing this in > 1/2" > > squares which would make a nice sized wafer/thin for the bottom > > feeders... not as pretty as a round thin/crisp but I don't think the > > fish care if their food is round or square. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO > DAT SAY > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:24 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > > > Full of questions today... > > > > Does anyone know how to make sinking pellets? What makes them sink? > > > > If not, then, if I were to make the regular frozen fish food with > > gelatin, would this be OK for ground feeders like hillstream loaches > > and cory catfish? IOW would it reach them in sufficient > quantities? I > > have trouble keeping track of what the ground feeders get when I > feed > > frozen, whereas with the commercial sinking pellets I can see them > > eating. However, I can't find a sinking pellet with ingredients > that I > > like as I prefer not to feed ethoxyquin and colorants and MSG, which > > most of them contain to some degree. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46475	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Questions on new tank for ram fry

Hi Ray - Actually, I wrote about the two filters a couple of times, but you must have missed those posts. I am using a red sea nano filter with a sponge on the intake and it is such a gentle, tiny filter, I guess I got away with it - all part of my intense beginner's luck:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 1:20 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > You never mentioned anything about "All my filters" before this. A > power > filter having a sponge wrapped around the intake is not the same > thing as a > sponge filter which has so much less water drawing capacity. You're > lucky > that when your fry were smaller that they weren't sucked up against > this power > filter sponge where they wouldn't have escaped. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46476	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets

Ya, I have done this for my list too, but I don't know what is more work, repeating myself or writing all the articles and then directing people to them! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > That's why I started my blog a few years back to create "articles" > for my > most common replies so I can just point someone to that reply > instead of > retyping the same thing over and over. I need to do an article on > the DIY > foods, growing our own foods, etc... sort of compiling stuff that > is already > spread out all over the net already... with some of my own personal > info > included. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > Sorry, Lenny - > > I have my own yahoo group and I hate having to repeat myself. The > truth is, > I did read this thread, which is what got me thinking to DIY my > foods, but I > did not follow the links as I wasn't far enough along in my > thinking... > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You must not read all the posts out here. ;-) I know.. most people > > don't. > > We just had a thread on this topic in the past week or so. > > > > Thread starts here: > > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46378 > > > > My first reply with links to DIY foods in the middle of this reply: > > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46400 > > > > Oh yeah.. this site was down when I posted that reply last week so I > > left the link out but it's back up now. > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO > DAT SAY > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > > > Thank you, Lenny, this is helpful. I am going to try it. > > > > Can you or others direct me to some very good quality recipes? > > > > Also, what about a high quality vitamin/mineral supplement to add to > > DIY foods? > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > The various batches of DIY gel-foods that I've made over the years > > > sinks. > > > It's not as hard as the pellets or thins or discs that are > commonly > > > sold for bottom feeders... but since I messed up my last batch of > > gel > > > food and had to bake it to get it to harden, I guess I could have > > > baked it even more until it was completely hard instead of > taking it > > > out while it was still gel like. > > > The problem would be making the right shapes that you might want. > > > With my > > > gel food, while it was still soft enough, I cut it into the 2" > x 2" > > > squares > > > and then freeze them. Then I take one square out at a time and > > keep it > > > in a little plastic container in my fridge and pinch/peel off > pieces > > > to feed the fish as needed. > > > > > > It's the HARD discs that smaller fish can't eat and it gives the > > > bottom feeders time to find the food and then hang around on top > > of it > > > gnawing on it and/or eating it as it slowly dissolves. I guess if > > you > > > baked (low temperature since you are really just trying to > evaporate > > > all the water out) the gel food and then once it hardened, > broke it > > > into pieces, that would also work. Just start off with a 1/4" to > > 1/2" > > > thick liquid layer and bake at low temp until it's a hard thin > layer > > > of food. I put aluminum foil down on the baking pan and then > cut the > > > sections when I took it out the oven and then stuck the entire pan > > > into my freezer. Once it was frozen, I was able to snap the > sections > > > apart since they were already scored. You could try doing this in > > 1/2" > > > squares which would make a nice sized wafer/thin for the bottom > > > feeders... not as pretty as a round thin/crisp but I don't > think the > > > fish care if their food is round or square. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO > > DAT SAY > > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:24 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > > > > > Full of questions today... > > > > > > Does anyone know how to make sinking pellets? What makes them > sink? > > > > > > If not, then, if I were to make the regular frozen fish food with > > > gelatin, would this be OK for ground feeders like hillstream > loaches > > > and cory catfish? IOW would it reach them in sufficient > > quantities? I > > > have trouble keeping track of what the ground feeders get when I > > feed > > > frozen, whereas with the commercial sinking pellets I can see them > > > eating. However, I can't find a sinking pellet with ingredients > > that I > > > like as I prefer not to feed ethoxyquin and colorants and MSG, > which > > > most of them contain to some degree. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46477	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Winter Storms And Power Outages

There are around 500,000 folks without power due to the heavy snows right now. I know this won't help for folks already without power but for those who might ever face a no power situation... like I did for 14 days during/after Hurricane Katrina... here's my blog article about dealing with power outages. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/power-outage-how-me-and-my-fish.html (half way down the page, there are links to several other articles about dealing with cold weather power outages) For folks in these current storms or possibly facing a power outage, but hoping they at least have oil or gas heating, you can heat up water in 1L or 2L bottles and float them in your tanks to maintain water temperature. There's no formula for this since every tank and room temperature is different so you'll have to check the water temp FREQUENTLY and add/remove heating bottles as needed. Also, wrapping the tanks in insulation material, blankets, etc., will help retain heat better. Even if you can't get the entire tank's temperature as high as you'd like, the water closest to the hot water bottles will be warmer and the fish will likely seek out those warmer spots so you might have to weigh down a bottle with gravel so it will sit on the bottom for the bottom dwellers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46478	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Winner for Superbowl----SAINTS

WHO DAT!!! ('nuff said in answer to paragraph one! LOL) You might as well wash the gravel good before you reuse it. It's probably going to stink to high heaven when you disturb it anyhow. Without aerated water in a tank, the detritus in the gravel will only feed anaerobic (BAD) bacteria and all of your good aerobic nitrifying bacteria will have died off due to lack of oxygenated water. Without fish as a source of ammonia, this can also happen but there is usually enough detritus in the substrate that will continue to break down and provide ammonia for a while after removing the fish but the tank would still have to have some kind of water flow, otherwise it becomes stagnant. Wash it good using hot/boiling water to kill off all bacteria. DO NOT use bleach. It would be OK to pour hydrogen peroxide over it, after draining most of the water, if you really wanted to be sure all the bacteria is dead. Then a simple rinse and it's OK to use since HP more easily rinses away and any residual amounts would not be a problem once the tank is filled back up anyhow. As far as the canister... DEFINITELY take it outside to clean it. Even after a day of not running, it turns into a toxic cesspool. You should be able to just clean all the filter media good and reuse it. For Hurricane Gustav (2008), I had a generator and ran one filter system on each tank and used it on the HOB instead of the canister and even after only one day of no power, I opened it in the house and it stunk to high heaven. Next time, I'll keep the canister running and float the bio-wheel and filter cartridges of the HOB (after cleaning them) in the tank to keep them viable for N-bacteria. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Winner for Superbowl----SAINTS Hey Lenny, Got my New Orleans tee-shirt ready for the big party tomorrow. You heard it first here----SAINTS WIN!!!!!!. Seems like a lock now that all the TV people and announcers are saying that Manning and the Colts have already won the game. Those clowns haven't picked a winner in years. The Margaritas are chilling and the Shrimp are on the Barbie. Go Saints!!! My 50 gallon sprung a leak a couple of weeks ago but still has water covering the gravel. I want to transfer the gravel to a new tank . Do I need to wash it before I move it? Will it still contain any good bacteria that could speed up the cycling process? The canister filter has the water still in it but guessing that I probably need to start from scratch here. Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46479	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Home made sinking pellets

Many of my blog articles start off with simply copy/pasting one of my long replies from a forum and then editing it a little to clean it up. You'll see forum banter in most of my blog articles. I figure readers will be more assured if other folks are chiming in on the creation of the article and most of the forums that have articles usually do it this way also with one person being the main article writer but then they open the article up for comments from other forum members to give other tips or ideas that the author can then incorporate into the article. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets Ya, I have done this for my list too, but I don't know what is more work, repeating myself or writing all the articles and then directing people to them! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > That's why I started my blog a few years back to create "articles" > for my > most common replies so I can just point someone to that reply instead > of retyping the same thing over and over. I need to do an article on > the DIY foods, growing our own foods, etc... sort of compiling stuff > that is already spread out all over the net already... with some of my > own personal info included. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > Sorry, Lenny - > > I have my own yahoo group and I hate having to repeat myself. The > truth is, I did read this thread, which is what got me thinking to DIY > my foods, but I did not follow the links as I wasn't far enough along > in my thinking... > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You must not read all the posts out here. ;-) I know.. most people > > don't. > > We just had a thread on this topic in the past week or so. > > > > Thread starts here: > > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46378 > > > > My first reply with links to DIY foods in the middle of this reply: > > http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/46400 > > > > Oh yeah.. this site was down when I posted that reply last week so I > > left the link out but it's back up now. > > > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-fish-food/112.asp > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO > DAT SAY > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > > > Thank you, Lenny, this is helpful. I am going to try it. > > > > Can you or others direct me to some very good quality recipes? > > > > Also, what about a high quality vitamin/mineral supplement to add to > > DIY foods? > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > The various batches of DIY gel-foods that I've made over the years > > > sinks. > > > It's not as hard as the pellets or thins or discs that are > commonly > > > sold for bottom feeders... but since I messed up my last batch of > > gel > > > food and had to bake it to get it to harden, I guess I could have > > > baked it even more until it was completely hard instead of > taking it > > > out while it was still gel like. > > > The problem would be making the right shapes that you might want. > > > With my > > > gel food, while it was still soft enough, I cut it into the 2" > x 2" > > > squares > > > and then freeze them. Then I take one square out at a time and > > keep it > > > in a little plastic container in my fridge and pinch/peel off > pieces > > > to feed the fish as needed. > > > > > > It's the HARD discs that smaller fish can't eat and it gives the > > > bottom feeders time to find the food and then hang around on top > > of it > > > gnawing on it and/or eating it as it slowly dissolves. I guess if > > you > > > baked (low temperature since you are really just trying to > evaporate > > > all the water out) the gel food and then once it hardened, > broke it > > > into pieces, that would also work. Just start off with a 1/4" to > > 1/2" > > > thick liquid layer and bake at low temp until it's a hard thin > layer > > > of food. I put aluminum foil down on the baking pan and then > cut the > > > sections when I took it out the oven and then stuck the entire pan > > > into my freezer. Once it was frozen, I was able to snap the > sections > > > apart since they were already scored. You could try doing this in > > 1/2" > > > squares which would make a nice sized wafer/thin for the bottom > > > feeders... not as pretty as a round thin/crisp but I don't > think the > > > fish care if their food is round or square. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO > > DAT SAY > > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:24 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made sinking pellets > > > > > > Full of questions today... > > > > > > Does anyone know how to make sinking pellets? What makes them > sink? > > > > > > If not, then, if I were to make the regular frozen fish food with > > > gelatin, would this be OK for ground feeders like hillstream > loaches > > > and cory catfish? IOW would it reach them in sufficient > > quantities? I > > > have trouble keeping track of what the ground feeders get when I > > feed > > > frozen, whereas with the commercial sinking pellets I can see them > > > eating. However, I can't find a sinking pellet with ingredients > > that I > > > like as I prefer not to feed ethoxyquin and colorants and MSG, > which > > > most of them contain to some degree. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46480	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

I am not an expert, but have set up six planted tanks in the past six months. I can tell you that any and all of your questions should be answered at the Planted Tank Forum: www.plantedtank.net Some plants need CO2 and some don't but all of them prefer it. It gets complicated pretty fast. There is a DIY thread at PT which might interest you re low cost solutions. I guess the best answer is that you can do it whatever way you want to, spending as much or as little as you want to. There are pros and cons to each method. Low cost plants are available as "random acts of kindness" or RAOKs in the swap and shop section of the PT forum. Best wishes, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 2:50 PM, environmom95112 wrote: > Hi there, > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my > set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It > has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few > plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want > them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared > FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have > dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and > flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not > do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does > not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not > spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted > tank to be successful. > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish > store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to > renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46481	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

Hi Lainey, I've been over to the site you mention and enjoyed learning and looking at these tanks and their setups but have a question, in general? Temperature?  Doesn't temperature matter or are all planted tanks the same and they just don't mention it in their "setup sections"? Maybe that's why I have such bad luck with plants.   Bill --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie questions on planted tanks > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 5:15 PM > I am not an expert, but have set up > six planted tanks in the past six  > months. I can tell  you that any and all of your > questions should be  > answered at the Planted Tank Forum: www.plantedtank.net > > Some plants need CO2 and some don't but all of them prefer > it. It  > gets complicated pretty fast. There is a DIY thread at PT > which might  > interest you re low cost solutions. > > I guess the best answer is that you can do it whatever way > you want  > to, spending as much or as little as you want to. There are > pros and  > cons to each method. > > Low cost plants are available as "random acts of kindness" > or RAOKs  > in the swap and shop section of the PT forum. > > Best wishes, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 2:50 PM, environmom95112 wrote: > > > Hi there, > > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish > for over 30 years. > > > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat > confused. Here's my  > > set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a > couple years. It  > > has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of > driftwood, and a few  > > plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power > compact, single bulb. > > > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and > now I want  > > them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should > have prepared  > > FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the > fish have  > > dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. > > > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between > laterite and  > > flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my > plants did not  > > do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem > Flourite, but does  > > not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I > would rather not  > > spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I > want my planted  > > tank to be successful. > > > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the > local fish  > > store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a > break to  > > renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a > budget! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46482	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

Hi Bill - Each plant has its own temperature preferences, same as fish. You have to explore profiles for the individual plants. Usually, they tolerate a broad range like 65 to 85 degrees. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 5:36 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > I've been over to the site you mention and enjoyed learning > and looking at these tanks and their setups but have a question, in > general? > > Temperature? Doesn't temperature matter or are all planted > tanks the same and they just don't mention it in their "setup > sections"? > Maybe that's why I have such bad luck with plants. > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Newbie questions on planted tanks > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 5:15 PM > > I am not an expert, but have set up > > six planted tanks in the past six > > months. I can tell you that any and all of your > > questions should be > > answered at the Planted Tank Forum: www.plantedtank.net > > > > Some plants need CO2 and some don't but all of them prefer > > it. It > > gets complicated pretty fast. There is a DIY thread at PT > > which might > > interest you re low cost solutions. > > > > I guess the best answer is that you can do it whatever way > > you want > > to, spending as much or as little as you want to. There are > > pros and > > cons to each method. > > > > Low cost plants are available as "random acts of kindness" > > or RAOKs > > in the swap and shop section of the PT forum. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 2:50 PM, environmom95112 wrote: > > > > > Hi there, > > > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish > > for over 30 years. > > > > > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat > > confused. Here's my > > > set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a > > couple years. It > > > has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of > > driftwood, and a few > > > plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power > > compact, single bulb. > > > > > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and > > now I want > > > them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should > > have prepared > > > FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the > > fish have > > > dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. > > > > > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between > > laterite and > > > flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my > > plants did not > > > do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem > > Flourite, but does > > > not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > > > > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I > > would rather not > > > spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I > > want my planted > > > tank to be successful. > > > > > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the > > local fish > > > store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > > > > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a > > break to > > > renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a > > budget! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46483	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Help please Ray

Sorry to be so high maintenance today, everyone. One of the ram babies got sick, and I culled it - but I am concerned about what may have been wrong. It was swimming badly, sideways etc. and had definite white fungus fuzz on its fin-tips. I don't see anything on any of the others, but obviously, something could be wrong. Please advise. Am wondering about raising temps and salt? Temps are 84 and water parameters look good re all contaminants and nothing weird has been happening - I water change daily as everyone now knows. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46484	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Lainey, Just the one? All others eating and other wise doing ok? Bill --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 5:59 PM > Sorry to be so high maintenance > today, everyone. > > One of the ram babies got sick, and I culled it - but I am > concerned  > about what may have been wrong. It was swimming badly, > sideways etc.  > and had definite white fungus fuzz on its fin-tips. I don't > see  > anything on any of the others, but obviously, something > could be wrong. > > Please advise. > > Am wondering about raising temps and salt? Temps are 84 and > water  > parameters look good re all contaminants and nothing weird > has been  > happening - I water change daily as everyone now knows. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46485	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

As far as I can tell with my mag glass, yes. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 6:18 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Lainey, > > Just the one? All others eating and other wise > doing ok? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 5:59 PM > > Sorry to be so high maintenance > > today, everyone. > > > > One of the ram babies got sick, and I culled it - but I am > > concerned > > about what may have been wrong. It was swimming badly, > > sideways etc. > > and had definite white fungus fuzz on its fin-tips. I don't > > see > > anything on any of the others, but obviously, something > > could be wrong. > > > > Please advise. > > > > Am wondering about raising temps and salt? Temps are 84 and > > water > > parameters look good re all contaminants and nothing weird > > has been > > happening - I water change daily as everyone now knows. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46486	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Oh dear, another one seems to have the white fuzz on the fins:((( It seems fungal, not like the dots of ich. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Sorry to be so high maintenance today, everyone. > > One of the ram babies got sick, and I culled it - but I am concerned > about what may have been wrong. It was swimming badly, sideways etc. > and had definite white fungus fuzz on its fin-tips. I don't see > anything on any of the others, but obviously, something could be > wrong. > > Please advise. > > Am wondering about raising temps and salt? Temps are 84 and water > parameters look good re all contaminants and nothing weird has been > happening - I water change daily as everyone now knows. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46487	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

I think the babies are goners - there are several swimming badly now, and I see a couple puffs of fuzz here and there. And I think some have already died. Oh no! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Sorry to be so high maintenance today, everyone. > > One of the ram babies got sick, and I culled it - but I am concerned > about what may have been wrong. It was swimming badly, sideways etc. > and had definite white fungus fuzz on its fin-tips. I don't see > anything on any of the others, but obviously, something could be > wrong. > > Please advise. > > Am wondering about raising temps and salt? Temps are 84 and water > parameters look good re all contaminants and nothing weird has been > happening - I water change daily as everyone now knows. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46488	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

I know a lot of our members are up in the northeast so I hope all is OK with them. I saw Bill posting so I know he's still OK with the weather... knock on wood! OK.. first, what are the actual numbers for your water tests? That's the first thing that should be checked to make certain it's not a water quality issue since water quality is then number one cause of fish health issues. Give us your normal baseline numbers compared to your tank results so we can see if anything sets off any alarms. If you've been keeping a log, let us know those numbers too. It could also just be increasing hormone numbers, which we can't test for, that are causing the fish stress and causing them to succumb to things that they might otherwise be able to ward off... although at such a young age, their immune systems are weakened. What kind of meds do you have on hand? I remember Ray talking to you about getting an anti-fungal, probably Methylene Blue, while the fry were still eggs but I don't recall if you ever got it. In the interim, increase your PWC's even more. Fresh clean water is one of the best medicines we can ever give our fish.... just like clean air (or O2) to a human who was stuck in a bad air situation. Have you double checked your water temperature with a known-good thermometer just to make sure it's not a water temp issue setting things off. I remember you had some heater issues early on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray I think the babies are goners - there are several swimming badly now, and I see a couple puffs of fuzz here and there. And I think some have already died. Oh no! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Sorry to be so high maintenance today, everyone. > > One of the ram babies got sick, and I culled it - but I am concerned > about what may have been wrong. It was swimming badly, sideways etc. > and had definite white fungus fuzz on its fin-tips. I don't see > anything on any of the others, but obviously, something could be > wrong. > > Please advise. > > Am wondering about raising temps and salt? Temps are 84 and water > parameters look good re all contaminants and nothing weird has been > happening - I water change daily as everyone now knows. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46489	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Instructions for Methylene Blue can be found on this page... scroll down just a little to the Methylene Blue section. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray I think the babies are goners - there are several swimming badly now, and I see a couple puffs of fuzz here and there. And I think some have already died. Oh no! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Sorry to be so high maintenance today, everyone. > > One of the ram babies got sick, and I culled it - but I am concerned > about what may have been wrong. It was swimming badly, sideways etc. > and had definite white fungus fuzz on its fin-tips. I don't see > anything on any of the others, but obviously, something could be > wrong. > > Please advise. > > Am wondering about raising temps and salt? Temps are 84 and water > parameters look good re all contaminants and nothing weird has been > happening - I water change daily as everyone now knows. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46490	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

I got absolutely no snow, south of me (Jersey Shore, etc.) got 10 inches. Not sure of Ray's geography (other than NJ), but my shore forum buddies seem to be enjoying the storm. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray I know a lot of our members are up in the northeast so I hope all is OK with them. I saw Bill posting so I know he's still OK with the weather... knock on wood! OK.. first, what are the actual numbers for your water tests? That's the first thing that should be checked to make certain it's not a water quality issue since water quality is then number one cause of fish health issues. Give us your normal baseline numbers compared to your tank results so we can see if anything sets off any alarms. If you've been keeping a log, let us know those numbers too. It could also just be increasing hormone numbers, which we can't test for, that are causing the fish stress and causing them to succumb to things that they might otherwise be able to ward off... although at such a young age, their immune systems are weakened. What kind of meds do you have on hand? I remember Ray talking to you about getting an anti-fungal, probably Methylene Blue, while the fry were still eggs but I don't recall if you ever got it. In the interim, increase your PWC's even more. Fresh clean water is one of the best medicines we can ever give our fish.... just like clean air (or O2) to a human who was stuck in a bad air situation. Have you double checked your water temperature with a known-good thermometer just to make sure it's not a water temp issue setting things off. I remember you had some heater issues early on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray I think the babies are goners - there are several swimming badly now, and I see a couple puffs of fuzz here and there. And I think some have already died. Oh no! Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Sorry to be so high maintenance today, everyone. > > One of the ram babies got sick, and I culled it - but I am concerned > about what may have been wrong. It was swimming badly, sideways etc. > and had definite white fungus fuzz on its fin-tips. I don't see > anything on any of the others, but obviously, something could be > wrong. > > Please advise. > > Am wondering about raising temps and salt? Temps are 84 and water > parameters look good re all contaminants and nothing weird has been > happening - I water change daily as everyone now knows. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46491	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

You mention having some plants now; if they have been growing fine all along nothing more may be necessary, although depending upon the type of plants, you may reqquire additional nutrient fertilization. CO2 is not necessary for the vast majority of plants, nor is high light especially without the added CO2. Flourite is an enriched substrate gravel that will slowly over time release nutrients when in contact with plant roots. It is a comprehensive nutrient base. Unlike laterite which is iron clay and not recommended on its own nor with gravel. Sufficient iron can be added (if needed for your plants) through liquid comprehensive fertilizers and/or substrate fertilizers. Various plants have different needs, so I can advise further when I know the types (species) of plants. I have maintained successful planted aquaria for 20 years with regular dark gravel and liquid fertilzer once or twice a week. What type of bulb do you have (Daylight, Warm White, Cool White...) and what wattage? And what species of plants? Your answers to these questions will help. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "environmom95112" <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > Hi there, > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted tank to be successful. > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46492	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

What are the dimensions of your tank? There are 20G long tanks and 20G tall tanks so that makes a HUGE difference in how your lighting will work. Next, you mention having a single CFL. What is the wattage? Yes, you messed up with your impulse buying of plants.. just like folks do with fish. Some plants are very high maintenance and need HIGH lighting and special substrates and CO2 injection (called a high tech planted tank) where others plants need very little maintenance, normal lighting, regular gravel substrate and NO CO2 injection (other than the CO2 that comes from the fish respiration and other ecological/biological activity in the tank (decaying detritus, CO2 from good bacteria, etc.)... called a low-tech tank. Then there are other *types* of planted tanks such as a Walstad "Natural" tank which is low-tech other than having a special substrate. You need to ID the plants that you have. Hopefully, you have either common names or better yet, scientific names for each species. If you don't, take photos and post them online (or here in the group's photos section) and we'll try to ID them for you. Unless you are wanting to have a high tech tank, you should stick with a low tech tank... which is what I and many others have, although if you want certain plants, you may have to go with a high tech tank. Go to my blog article, "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank!", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html and read over the info and check out all of the linked articles covering in detail the things I talked about above and come back here and give us the answers to the questions I asked. The article will also answer many of your other questions... especially about where to buy lower cost plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of environmom95112 Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie questions on planted tanks Hi there, I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted tank to be successful. Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46493	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Hi Lainey, Wghat have you done differently, if anything? Don't raise the temperature any more than it is. You may get ready to add salt -- 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. Do you have any medications on hand -- and if so, what are they? Did you ever get Acriflavine (or Liquid Fungus Cure, by API)? If so, you could add this as per instructions. Have you switched them over yet to the 20 gallon tank? As I believe this was a used tank that John gave you, if it was previously used for freshwater, did you sterilize (bleach) it first? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46494	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46495	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

I think it was my fault, Ray. A week ago I accidentally unplugged their heater without realizing it and the temps dropped ten degrees over a nine hour period. I brought the temps back up slowly, but I think that did them in. They seemed fine, and I didn't think about it again, but I bet that is what lowered their immunity - totally my mistake. I have no meds and only sea salt and it's late at night, but I don't think they're going to make it, there really aren't that many in there and some are sick for sure... I'm sad. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 9:29 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Hi Lainey, Wghat have you done differently, if anything? Don't > raise the > temperature any more than it is. You may get ready to add salt -- 1 > Tablespoon per 5 gallons. Do you have any medications on hand -- > and if so, what > are they? Did you ever get Acriflavine (or Liquid Fungus Cure, by > API)? If > so, you could add this as per instructions. Have you switched them > over yet > to the 20 gallon tank? As I believe this was a used tank that John > gave > you, if it was previously used for freshwater, did you sterilize > (bleach) it > first? Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46496	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Have not been affected by the storm, but only just now saw these posts as I had logged off before dinner and was preoccupied with hatchery duties. Sorry to hear about this sudden turn of events. As Lenny says, make a partial water change -- then, if you have no fungal medications (Furan II would be ideal if you had it), add the salt for now. A word of advice, it always pays for a hobbyist to keep on hand at least the bare basic medications in their "medicine chest" to be kept in the fridge for long-term effectiveness. If you never need them, at least it's cheap insurance and if you do need them you have them readily available. Diseases rarely ever occur when it's most convenient for us. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Platy's still having babies!

Are you still humming? LOL Most fry are pretty bland until they start to mature. And then, the males will almost always have more color and look much prettier than the females. It's a nature thing... like the male Peacock has the pretty tail, the male Baboon has the silver back or the red butt... and us human males.. well.. we're just butts in general. :-D I think I mentioned about keeping the males of your livebearers in your display tank and moving the females to another tank for future breeding or even culling most of the females for use in a DIY fish food... if your other tank mates keep falling down on the job and not eating enough of the fry. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! LOL, you had me humming that song all day, argh! I have no idea how many babies are in there, it seems like every time I look in there I see more. They hide between the rocks, I don't have gravel, I have rocks on the bottom. The guppies are at it too, babies everywhere! I'm just not going to worry about it anymore, what happens, happens. Do guppies get more attractive and colorful as they age? My babies are all kind of bland looking. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:06 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! OK.. Since one of your earlier posts was about your fear that your tank was getting overstocked, from what I've read so far, you are doing fine.... BUT... how many Platy fry do you have? If they number in the hundreds and are not being eaten by larger fish, then you could have a problem unless you cull some of them on your own... mainly the females since those would lead to more issues. Since you only have one decent sized fish, the 3-spot Gourami (grows to around 6" long) which will hopefully become a better fry eater in the future since you don't have a lot of plants for the fry to hide in. Some of your other adult fish, including other adult Platys will also eat some of the fry. If you just cut back normal feeding for a day or two after a new batch of fry are born and see how things go if you feel you have too many fry that are surviving... or just net a bunch of them as I mentioned earlier and freeze them for later use as food or as one of the ingredients in a DIY gel food. You could also net some and put them in the sump for potential food for your agoraphobic female Betta. Maybe you could name her Agora. ;-) As far as your tetra's, I must have misread earlier but I now see that they huddle when the lights are out but free swim without schooling when the lights are on. This is probably instinctive where they huddle in a corner to feel safer at night since they can't see any predators coming but then during the day, when they see that all is safe, they all go their separate way as they feel safe. You could test this by tapping on the glass to startle them and they will probably rush together as a school. Don't do this often as it can be considered stressful to some fish but I've done this test on my schooling fish in the past to show folks. Of course, if you've used tapping as a training tool, this will not work. For example, if you tap three times on my goldfish tank, they'll both come running for food since this is how I alert them that I am about to feed them so they'll be ready to gobble up all the food. So far, I haven't caught them doing any Karaoke to Tony Orlando and Dawn but I think they've been working on a re-write... "Tap three times on acrylic when you feed ussssssss... Twice on the top, if the answer is noooooooo". I bet you were thinking, "Tie a yellow ribbon 'round the Anacharis stalk..." LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! I do have 6 zebra danios. As far as the betta, she hasn't spent more than 1 minute in the main tank, I don't think the other fish have even seen her, the first time I put her in the tank, she swam straight up to the over flow and jump through, then I would catch her, throw her back in the main tank and she just immediately heads back over to the sump, I finally gave up. And actually, the tetra's are all grouped together before the lights are turned on, it's like there sleeping corner of the tank, I usually have the room lights on for about 1/2 hour before turning on the tank lights and once the room lights go on they start to disperse. I don't have any floating plants, I have lots of surface area. And yes, the gourami is really big, but so far very easy going. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Well, not all catfish... just Corydoras and possibly other species. Your BN Pleco is also a catfish but they do not need to be in groups. Zebra danio's are another fish that should be in schools of six or more. Sometimes, when schooling fish start to feel really comfortable in their surroundings, they'll quit schooling as often unless they get startled... probably what you are seeing when the lights come on. Are you turning on a room light first so they have a while of normal room lighting before the bright tank lights come on? I wonder if your much larger Gourami (at least it should be much larger) is chasing the Betta? Labyrinth fish are usually territorial and since they are both surface breathers, the upper areas become part of *their* territory. Of course, in a tank your size, you should have enough room for both of them unless you have a LOT of floating plants that limit the actual areas where the fish can surface for air. In that case, the Gourami could be chasing the Betta away so it escapes to the sump. If you do have a lot of floating plants or plants that are growing up to the surface, try to create several open stagnant areas for the labyrinth fish to be able to surface and breathe. If the Gourami is a male, it would also want a stagnant surface area for building a bubble nest to attract a female... never realizing that it's efforts will be in vain... kind of like how male bettas in bowls will build a bubble nest hoping that a female somehow parachutes into their bowl. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! I didn't know catfish needed to live in groups? Mine is a spotted looking little guy. I forgot that I also have zebra danios. I have six each of the tetra's, when I first got them they all stuck together like glue, but now they hang out all over the tank by themselves, the only time I see them all back together is first thing in the morning before I turn on the lights, they all huddle in the corner. My tank is planted and it would be almost impossible to catch a fish in there, especially the babies. I guess I will just wait and see what happens. I do have a female betta in there, but she decided she likes living in the sump which is located just behind the tank, I use to get her out and put her back in the main tank but she just jumps back into the sump so I have left her there. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! Your other fish should already be feasting on the newborn fry, including their parents unless you have a well planted tank where the fry will instinctively hide. I don't think you should have many problems with overstocking but if you do, you would need to cull out the fry that do not look good (pretty) to you and especially any that have deformities. If you have a lot, you can freeze them and use them in some DIY fish gelfood in the near future. Most LFS will not take livebearers since they probably already have so many themselves but you can ask. If you do want to limit the breeding, then get a second tank and segregate the females into that tank and keep only the adult males in the big tank. The adult males are the prettiest anyhow... for most species in the animal kingdom... except for us men. :-( Whenever you need more platys, throw a few of your males in the female tank and let the festivities begin! :-P What kind of Corydoras sp. do you have? There are dozens, if not hundreds of species ranging in size from less than an inch to 4"-5". As far as I know, all Corydoras should be kept in groups, some of at least three or more, most preferring five or more. Having one by itself it kind of stressful to a shoaling fish. Since you have a big tank, work on getting him some friends, preferably of the same species but often they'll shoal with other similar Corydoras species. Here's more info on them, including profiles on many of the more common species. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm The BN Pleco and 3-spot Gourami are OK to keep by themselves. Your tetras should be kept in schools of six or more. Possibly, the two species will school together if you have less than six of each but your tank is large enough for a nice big school of each.. maybe 10 of each. The bigger the school, the more likely the fish will school and you'll get to see them swim around in unison. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheryl Ellison Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! 90 gallons. I have some neon tetra's, glow light tetra's, guppies, platy's, a 3 spot gourami, a bristle nose pleco and a cory. I am so afraid that my tank is going to end up overstocked, in fact it probably already is with all the new babies. What does everyone do with all their babies? Do you give them to the LFS? Should I get a fish that will eat them, (I know that sounds terrible, because they are all so cute) but I am worried. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! They reach sexual maturity in a year or less.... most of them less than a year. Even four to six months is common. Likely, some of the males from the first batch back in August are now mating with mom and/or sisters. ;-) What size tank do you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Platy's still having babies! How is it possible that my Platy's are still having babies? I bought them at the end of August, 2 females, and yes they are definitely both females and they have been having babies ever since I got them, I just spotted three more little tiny guys in my tank. The first batch that were born are about 1/3rd the size of the adults, could they be old enough to mate already? I can't tell what sex they are yet, they won't stay still, there are four of them and who knows how many others are lurking in the crevices. My guppies are also having babies like crazy, I am going to be overrun with fish soon. Cheryl

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46498	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Should I try with the sea salt? I have nothing else other than tea tree oil which is know is uncharted to some degree. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 9:40 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Have not been affected by the storm, but only just now saw these > posts as I > had logged off before dinner and was preoccupied with hatchery duties. > Sorry to hear about this sudden turn of events. As Lenny says, make > a partial > water change -- then, if you have no fungal medications (Furan II > would be > ideal if you had it), add the salt for now. A word of advice, it > always pays > for a hobbyist to keep on hand at least the bare basic medications > in their > "medicine chest" to be kept in the fridge for long-term > effectiveness. If > you never need them, at least it's cheap insurance and if you do > need them > you have them readily available. Diseases rarely ever occur when > it's most > convenient for us. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46499	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Lainey, Now that you mention it, yes that 10 o drop in temperature could very well be the cause, in fact I'd go so far as to say it was the cause. You may lose a few more, so be prepared for that, but you still may find that you have some stronger ones surviving this. Raising the temperature beyond 84 o will serve no further purpose at this time. Add the amount of salt I recommended, and then tomorrow, add this same amount again unless you can get to a store for meds. While it may seem contradictory, fish eggs can be much more resistant to such fluctuation than can developed fish, which was the reason I told you to slowly raise the temperature when you had the heater problem in their egg stage. Eggs are very adherant to life and will cling on in the face on adversities. Unless they are subjected to conditions far out of their range for living, they will usually resume development after things are restored. They can't develop any fish diseases, except for fungusing, but that's mainly after the egg dies. Developed fish are subjected to any one of adverse conditions in their environment and when their immune system is compromised they'll contract any number of different diseases. Keep us posted on how things go along. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46500	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

The tea tree oil is probably not going to help. Melafix's active ingredient is Melaleuca (tea tree oil) but it is mainly promoted as an antibacterial. Their sister medication, Pimafix is promoted as an antifungal but the active ingredient is Pimenta Racemosa which is a West Indian Bay Tree extract. See if your sea salt says what percentage of it is sodium-chloride (normal salt). You could start off with it but divide that dose (1 tablespoon per 5G per Ray) in half and dilute that half in some tank water and then slowly pour it back into the tank, avoiding direct contact with the filter intake and the fish. After several hours, if the fish are not showing major stress from the salt, add the other half dose of salt. Whenever you do PWC's, you'll be removing an equal percentage of the salt so you'll have to re-dose the incoming refill water with the appropriate amount of salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray Should I try with the sea salt? I have nothing else other than tea tree oil which is know is uncharted to some degree. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 9:40 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Have not been affected by the storm, but only just now saw these posts > as I had logged off before dinner and was preoccupied with hatchery > duties. > Sorry to hear about this sudden turn of events. As Lenny says, make a > partial water change -- then, if you have no fungal medications (Furan > II would be ideal if you had it), add the salt for now. A word of > advice, it always pays for a hobbyist to keep on hand at least the > bare basic medications in their "medicine chest" to be kept in the > fridge for long-term effectiveness. If you never need them, at least > it's cheap insurance and if you do need them you have them readily > available. Diseases rarely ever occur when it's most convenient for > us. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46501	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Ray is in North Jersey, but I am not sure of the town name. We got 30+ inches in my area and, I understand, Colesville, MD got 40". We have been losing power off and one starting last night, and just got electricity back again, after a 5 1/2 hour outage. Still hundreds of thousands without power down here. Oh yeah, more snow Tuesday night & Wednesday. Schools already announcing closures for Monday. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray I got absolutely no snow, south of me (Jersey Shore, etc.) got 10 inches. Not sure of Ray's geography (other than NJ), but my shore forum buddies seem to be enjoying the storm. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray I know a lot of our members are up in the northeast so I hope all is OK with them. I saw Bill posting so I know he's still OK with the weather... knock on wood! OK.. first, what are the actual numbers for your water tests? That's the first thing that should be checked to make certain it's not a water quality issue since water quality is then number one cause of fish health issues. Give us your normal baseline numbers compared to your tank results so we can see if anything sets off any alarms. If you've been keeping a log, let us know those numbers too. It could also just be increasing hormone numbers, which we can't test for, that are causing the fish stress and causing them to succumb to things that they might otherwise be able to ward off... although at such a young age, their immune systems are weakened. What kind of meds do you have on hand? I remember Ray talking to you about getting an anti-fungal, probably Methylene Blue, while the fry were still eggs but I don't recall if you ever got it. In the interim, increase your PWC's even more. Fresh clean water is one of the best medicines we can ever give our fish.... just like clean air (or O2) to a human who was stuck in a bad air situation. Have you double checked your water temperature with a known-good thermometer just to make sure it's not a water temp issue setting things off. I remember you had some heater issues early on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray I think the babies are goners - there are several swimming badly now, and I see a couple puffs of fuzz here and there. And I think some have already died. Oh no! Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Sorry to be so high maintenance today, everyone. > > One of the ram babies got sick, and I culled it - but I am concerned > about what may have been wrong. It was swimming badly, sideways etc. > and had definite white fungus fuzz on its fin-tips. I don't see > anything on any of the others, but obviously, something could be > wrong. > > Please advise. > > Am wondering about raising temps and salt? Temps are 84 and water > parameters look good re all contaminants and nothing weird has been > happening - I water change daily as everyone now knows. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46502	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

OK, thanks I will proceed. I knew it was awful when I realized what had happened with the temperature, but then they seemed fine so I figured it was OK after all. But I have read that the fluctuations will lower immunity. Some do not have the fungus but I'm not too hopeful as many seem off. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 10:01 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Now that you mention it, yes that 10 o drop in temperature > could > very well be the cause, in fact I'd go so far as to say it was the > cause. > You may lose a few more, so be prepared for that, but you still may > find that > you have some stronger ones surviving this. Raising the temperature > beyond > 84 o will serve no further purpose at this time. Add the amount of > salt I > recommended, and then tomorrow, add this same amount again unless > you can get > to a store for meds. > > While it may seem contradictory, fish eggs can be much more > resistant to > such fluctuation than can developed fish, which was the reason I > told you to > slowly raise the temperature when you had the heater problem in > their egg > stage. Eggs are very adherant to life and will cling on in the face on > adversities. Unless they are subjected to conditions far out of > their range for > living, they will usually resume development after things are > restored. They > can't develop any fish diseases, except for fungusing, but that's > mainly > after the egg dies. Developed fish are subjected to any one of adverse > conditions in their environment and when their immune system is > compromised they'll > contract any number of different diseases. Keep us posted on how > things go > along. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46503	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Hopefully, you'll at least be able to save the strongest ones. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46504	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Yes, Sea Salt is okay. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46505	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

OK another issue - salt will kill the plants and this could cause pollution so I am pulling out the plants but this will cause stress as they are so shy and jumpy. I don't have plastic plants so what should I do? Would it be better to leave the plants and not do the salt and let them stay calmer? John thinks I have eleven that are not sick right now, so please advise as to what is better - plants and stress or salt? Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 11:12 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Yes, Sea Salt is okay. </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46506	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Most of you all must be asleep by now, but in case anyone is up, I am leaning away from the salt because as I pull out the plants the babies are getting stuck in them and then really freaking out... I am wondering if the best course is simply to let the strongest survive, if there is even a chance of that. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 11:14 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > OK another issue - salt will kill the plants and this could cause > pollution so I am pulling out the plants but this will cause stress > as they are so shy and jumpy. I don't have plastic plants so what > should I do? Would it be better to leave the plants and not do the > salt and let them stay calmer? > > John thinks I have eleven that are not sick right now, so please > advise as to what is better - plants and stress or salt? > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 11:12 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > >> Yes, Sea Salt is okay. </HTML> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46507	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Most aquatic plants will easily survive the 1 Tablespoon per 5 Gallons I recommended -- this is equivilent to 2/3 teaspoon per gallon. Many plants tolerate up to a 0.3% salt solution -- or 2.4 teaspoons of salt per gallon, so you still have a wide margin of safety even for less tolerant plants. The amount of salt I recommended is minimal even if you prefer not to add more tomorrow. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46508	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46509	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Why would you think you have another issue? This amount of salt WILL NOT kill your plants. There's absolutely no reason to remove them. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46510	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/6/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

OK, I was under the impression that any salt will kill aquatic plants, my misunderstanding. I have administered two tablespoons of sea salt to the ten gallon fry tank. We'll see what happens overnight now... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:25 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Why would you think you have another issue? This amount of salt > WILL NOT > kill your plants. There's absolutely no reason to remove them. Ray</ > HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46511	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Lainey, The amount of salt you will be adding is not likely to do too much damage to the plants. I'd not really worry about it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray Most of you all must be asleep by now, but in case anyone is up, I am leaning away from the salt because as I pull out the plants the babies are getting stuck in them and then really freaking out... I am wondering if the best course is simply to let the strongest survive, if there is even a chance of that. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 11:14 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > OK another issue - salt will kill the plants and this could cause > pollution so I am pulling out the plants but this will cause stress > as they are so shy and jumpy. I don't have plastic plants so what > should I do? Would it be better to leave the plants and not do the > salt and let them stay calmer? > > John thinks I have eleven that are not sick right now, so please > advise as to what is better - plants and stress or salt? > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 11:12 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > >> Yes, Sea Salt is okay. </HTML> >> > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46512	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2

Well, I prepared the 2 Litre bottle of low-tech CO2 DIY for my 34 gal planted tank, just the way it was explanied earlier in the group. I went out of home for a few hours, and when I got back the tank was completely dry and the fish were gasping in the remaining 1/4" of water! The floor and carpets were all covered in water. The water had "climbed" up in the CO2 line and found its way out of the loose bottle's lid. I admit the guilt of loosening it to allow the CO2 out until I got back, I was "careful" not to cause a CO2 poisoning while I was out! I was lucky that I only lost a heater and one fish who died because he landed on a high spot of gravel, may he rest in peace! So guys, when you do such DIY projects, do them the right way and stay around watching for any possible problems, you may not be as lucky as I was, and lose all your fish. Most of the fish went back to normal activity right after adding 2" of water, although there was a 6 degrees drop in temperature as I had to add a rescue bucket of cold conditioned water. It's been about 36 hours now, and all the fish look fine. Of course I had to fill 100% fresh warmed conditioned water. The parameters now are: NO3 10, NO2 0, GH 10, KH 6, pH 8 Should I watch for anything now? It seems like the tank is not having a mini-cycle, I guess? Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46513	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help please Ray

Just wave the babies away from where you are working. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help please Ray Most of you all must be asleep by now, but in case anyone is up, I am leaning away from the salt because as I pull out the plants the babies are getting stuck in them and then really freaking out... I am wondering if the best course is simply to let the strongest survive, if there is even a chance of that. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 6, 2010, at 11:14 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > OK another issue - salt will kill the plants and this could cause > pollution so I am pulling out the plants but this will cause stress > as they are so shy and jumpy. I don't have plastic plants so what > should I do? Would it be better to leave the plants and not do the > salt and let them stay calmer? > > John thinks I have eleven that are not sick right now, so please > advise as to what is better - plants and stress or salt? > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 6, 2010, at 11:12 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > >> Yes, Sea Salt is okay. </HTML> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46514	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta?

Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2

Wow... I've never seen this type of problem posted before... at least not with a CO2 system. I've seen it with air pumps when the air pump failed or lost power. They sell anti-siphon valves for this purpose with all of the air pump supplies. You didn't post your ammonia readings. That would be the first thing to check for the beginning of a cycling issue. Also keep an eye on overall health issues, Ich, etc., due to the stress and then the abrupt water temperature change. I'm still trying to picture what happened though to cause the start of the siphon out through the CO2 line. Did you use one of the links that I posted about setting up the DIY CO2 system? If so, let me know which one so I can re-read it and if there is a problem, alert the author so they can fix any problems in the article. I guess, it would best to install an anti-siphon valve on any air line going into a tank, just like we do for the air lines from our air pumps... or we should if the air pump is down below the tank. If the CO2 bottle or air pump was above the tank, then it would not need an anti-siphon valve since there could be no siphon effect. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2 Well, I prepared the 2 Litre bottle of low-tech CO2 DIY for my 34 gal planted tank, just the way it was explanied earlier in the group. I went out of home for a few hours, and when I got back the tank was completely dry and the fish were gasping in the remaining 1/4" of water! The floor and carpets were all covered in water. The water had "climbed" up in the CO2 line and found its way out of the loose bottle's lid. I admit the guilt of loosening it to allow the CO2 out until I got back, I was "careful" not to cause a CO2 poisoning while I was out! I was lucky that I only lost a heater and one fish who died because he landed on a high spot of gravel, may he rest in peace! So guys, when you do such DIY projects, do them the right way and stay around watching for any possible problems, you may not be as lucky as I was, and lose all your fish. Most of the fish went back to normal activity right after adding 2" of water, although there was a 6 degrees drop in temperature as I had to add a rescue bucket of cold conditioned water. It's been about 36 hours now, and all the fish look fine. Of course I had to fill 100% fresh warmed conditioned water. The parameters now are: NO3 10, NO2 0, GH 10, KH 6, pH 8 Should I watch for anything now? It seems like the tank is not having a mini-cycle, I guess? Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46516	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta?

Yes. Keep it at a 50% dose or less to start with and on recurring treatments. API, the maker of Melafix, actually makes a product called Bettafix which is the same active ingredient except only 10% of the strength of Melafix. This 10% seems to have no adverse effects on the fish but also doesn't seem strong enough to have any effect on any bacteria, IMO, which is why I use the normal Melafix and just use a 50% dose when treating labyrinth fish. API also makes a pond version of Melafix which is three times stronger than regular Melafix. The best bargain for folks with lots of fish, that like Melafix, is buying the pond size and then using a 1/3 dose for regular fish and then a 1/6 dose for labyrinth fish but the smallest pond Melafix is a quart sized bottle so it would last most folks forever. The best bargain for average fish keepers is the 16 oz. bottle of regular Melafix and then using 50% doses for labyrinth fish but don't add the full 50% dose at one time. Split it up and add part, then wait an hour and add the other part. This gives the fish a chance to get use to the medication and breathing the smell. The reason that some labyrinth fish have issues with Melafix is due to the smell. Since Melafix has such a strong sweet smell to it, this smell also lingers right above the surface of the water and Melafix also causes some foaming as well. When the labyrinth fish surfaces to take a breath, it takes in this Melafix flavored air and possibly comes up in a foamy area. I guess this would be akin to a human breathing in smokey air or trying to breathe in foamy rough water while swimming (That's why I never try to do laps in my hot tub! And the flip turns are harder to do with all the funky seating arrangements too! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46517	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta/Lenny

"That's why I never try to do laps in my hot tub! And the flip turns are harder to do with all the funky seating arrangements too! LOL)" So, your in the hot tub by yourself?. Harry --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:15 AM   Yes. Keep it at a 50% dose or less to start with and on recurring treatments. API, the maker of Melafix, actually makes a product called Bettafix which is the same active ingredient except only 10% of the strength of Melafix. This 10% seems to have no adverse effects on the fish but also doesn't seem strong enough to have any effect on any bacteria, IMO, which is why I use the normal Melafix and just use a 50% dose when treating labyrinth fish. API also makes a pond version of Melafix which is three times stronger than regular Melafix. The best bargain for folks with lots of fish, that like Melafix, is buying the pond size and then using a 1/3 dose for regular fish and then a 1/6 dose for labyrinth fish but the smallest pond Melafix is a quart sized bottle so it would last most folks forever. The best bargain for average fish keepers is the 16 oz. bottle of regular Melafix and then using 50% doses for labyrinth fish but don't add the full 50% dose at one time. Split it up and add part, then wait an hour and add the other part. This gives the fish a chance to get use to the medication and breathing the smell. The reason that some labyrinth fish have issues with Melafix is due to the smell. Since Melafix has such a strong sweet smell to it, this smell also lingers right above the surface of the water and Melafix also causes some foaming as well. When the labyrinth fish surfaces to take a breath, it takes in this Melafix flavored air and possibly comes up in a foamy area. I guess this would be akin to a human breathing in smokey air or trying to breathe in foamy rough water while swimming (That's why I never try to do laps in my hot tub! And the flip turns are harder to do with all the funky seating arrangements too! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46518	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2

Tristan - I think you are saying that somehow a siphon got created with the CO2 line - I've never heard of that before, how awful. But just to clarify: 1. The CO2 bottle has to be set well below the tank so that the sugar liquid in the bottle doesn't get into the tank. 2. The liquid in the CO2 bottle has to be filled only about 3/4 of the way. 3. The cap has to be well sealed on the CO2 bottle. 4. You need to pull the CO2 airstone or diffuser out of the tank overnight to prevent overdosing as plants do not need CO2 at night since they are not photosynthesizing and there can be a fatal OD to the fish for that reason. And I would add, you always want to check the equipment to make sure there is air (CO2) in the line rather than liquid after each time that you have it in the tank and starting up. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 6:39 AM, greyclouds99 wrote: > > Well, I prepared the 2 Litre bottle of low-tech CO2 DIY for my 34 > gal planted tank, just the way it was explanied earlier in the > group. I went out of home for a few hours, and when I got back the > tank was completely dry and the fish were gasping in the remaining > 1/4" of water! The floor and carpets were all covered in water. The > water had "climbed" up in the CO2 line and found its way out of the > loose bottle's lid. I admit the guilt of loosening it to allow the > CO2 out until I got back, I was "careful" not to cause a CO2 > poisoning while I was out! > I was lucky that I only lost a heater and one fish who died because > he landed on a high spot of gravel, may he rest in peace! > > So guys, when you do such DIY projects, do them the right way and > stay around watching for any possible problems, you may not be as > lucky as I was, and lose all your fish. > Most of the fish went back to normal activity right after adding 2" > of water, although there was a 6 degrees drop in temperature as I > had to add a rescue bucket of cold conditioned water. > It's been about 36 hours now, and all the fish look fine. Of course > I had to fill 100% fresh warmed conditioned water. The parameters > now are: > > NO3 10, NO2 0, GH 10, KH 6, pH 8 > > Should I watch for anything now? It seems like the tank is not > having a mini-cycle, I guess? > > Tristan > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta/Lenny

LOL... well, that's another reason I don't do laps but I wasn't going to say that was my reason... I was trying to stay on topic about the side-breathing in the foamy water... but now that you've brought it up. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 10:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta/Lenny "That's why I never try to do laps in my hot tub! And the flip turns are harder to do with all the funky seating arrangements too! LOL)" So, your in the hot tub by yourself?. Harry --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:15 AM   Yes. Keep it at a 50% dose or less to start with and on recurring treatments. API, the maker of Melafix, actually makes a product called Bettafix which is the same active ingredient except only 10% of the strength of Melafix. This 10% seems to have no adverse effects on the fish but also doesn't seem strong enough to have any effect on any bacteria, IMO, which is why I use the normal Melafix and just use a 50% dose when treating labyrinth fish. API also makes a pond version of Melafix which is three times stronger than regular Melafix. The best bargain for folks with lots of fish, that like Melafix, is buying the pond size and then using a 1/3 dose for regular fish and then a 1/6 dose for labyrinth fish but the smallest pond Melafix is a quart sized bottle so it would last most folks forever. The best bargain for average fish keepers is the 16 oz. bottle of regular Melafix and then using 50% doses for labyrinth fish but don't add the full 50% dose at one time. Split it up and add part, then wait an hour and add the other part. This gives the fish a chance to get use to the medication and breathing the smell. The reason that some labyrinth fish have issues with Melafix is due to the smell. Since Melafix has such a strong sweet smell to it, this smell also lingers right above the surface of the water and Melafix also causes some foaming as well. When the labyrinth fish surfaces to take a breath, it takes in this Melafix flavored air and possibly comes up in a foamy area. I guess this would be akin to a human breathing in smokey air or trying to breathe in foamy rough water while swimming (That's why I never try to do laps in my hot tub! And the flip turns are harder to do with all the funky seating arrangements too! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46520	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2

I do think it is recommended to use a check-valve in the CO2 line - I need to do that right away! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I guess, it would best to install an anti-siphon valve on any air > line going > into a tank, just like we do for the air lines from our air > pumps... or we > should if the air pump is down below the tank. If the CO2 bottle or > air > pump was above the tank, then it would not need an anti-siphon > valve since > there could be no siphon effect. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46521	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a

That's about what I thought once I added it. The smell is already strong enough to bother my asthma. It must be one of those evergreen trees. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta? Yes. Keep it at a 50% dose or less to start with and on recurring treatments. API, the maker of Melafix, actually makes a product called Bettafix which is the same active ingredient except only 10% of the strength of Melafix. This 10% seems to have no adverse effects on the fish but also doesn't seem strong enough to have any effect on any bacteria, IMO, which is why I use the normal Melafix and just use a 50% dose when treating labyrinth fish. API also makes a pond version of Melafix which is three times stronger than regular Melafix. The best bargain for folks with lots of fish, that like Melafix, is buying the pond size and then using a 1/3 dose for regular fish and then a 1/6 dose for labyrinth fish but the smallest pond Melafix is a quart sized bottle so it would last most folks forever. The best bargain for average fish keepers is the 16 oz. bottle of regular Melafix and then using 50% doses for labyrinth fish but don't add the full 50% dose at one time. Split it up and add part, then wait an hour and add the other part. This gives the fish a chance to get use to the medication and breathing the smell. The reason that some labyrinth fish have issues with Melafix is due to the smell. Since Melafix has such a strong sweet smell to it, this smell also lingers right above the surface of the water and Melafix also causes some foaming as well. When the labyrinth fish surfaces to take a breath, it takes in this Melafix flavored air and possibly comes up in a foamy area. I guess this would be akin to a human breathing in smokey air or trying to breathe in foamy rough water while swimming (That's why I never try to do laps in my hot tub! And the flip turns are harder to do with all the funky seating arrangements too! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Do you use a half dose of melafix for a betta? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46522	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Ram fry update

I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should I add two more now at noon? All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 10ppm. Thank you all for all your help. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46523	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2

Lenny, He said that he loosened the cap on the bottle. My guess is that this caused a net negative pressure in the system, creating the siphon. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 10:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2 Wow... I've never seen this type of problem posted before... at least not with a CO2 system. I've seen it with air pumps when the air pump failed or lost power. They sell anti-siphon valves for this purpose with all of the air pump supplies. You didn't post your ammonia readings. That would be the first thing to check for the beginning of a cycling issue. Also keep an eye on overall health issues, Ich, etc., due to the stress and then the abrupt water temperature change. I'm still trying to picture what happened though to cause the start of the siphon out through the CO2 line. Did you use one of the links that I posted about setting up the DIY CO2 system? If so, let me know which one so I can re-read it and if there is a problem, alert the author so they can fix any problems in the article. I guess, it would best to install an anti-siphon valve on any air line going into a tank, just like we do for the air lines from our air pumps... or we should if the air pump is down below the tank. If the CO2 bottle or air pump was above the tank, then it would not need an anti-siphon valve since there could be no siphon effect. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2 Well, I prepared the 2 Litre bottle of low-tech CO2 DIY for my 34 gal planted tank, just the way it was explanied earlier in the group. I went out of home for a few hours, and when I got back the tank was completely dry and the fish were gasping in the remaining 1/4" of water! The floor and carpets were all covered in water. The water had "climbed" up in the CO2 line and found its way out of the loose bottle's lid. I admit the guilt of loosening it to allow the CO2 out until I got back, I was "careful" not to cause a CO2 poisoning while I was out! I was lucky that I only lost a heater and one fish who died because he landed on a high spot of gravel, may he rest in peace! So guys, when you do such DIY projects, do them the right way and stay around watching for any possible problems, you may not be as lucky as I was, and lose all your fish. Most of the fish went back to normal activity right after adding 2" of water, although there was a 6 degrees drop in temperature as I had to add a rescue bucket of cold conditioned water. It's been about 36 hours now, and all the fish look fine. Of course I had to fill 100% fresh warmed conditioned water. The parameters now are: NO3 10, NO2 0, GH 10, KH 6, pH 8 Should I watch for anything now? It seems like the tank is not having a mini-cycle, I guess? Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46524	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Hi Lainey,   How are you getting "nitrates 10ppm" using RO water? Should be Zero, no?   Bill --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight  or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any  sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very  active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be  missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should  I add two more now at noon? All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0,  nitrates 10ppm. Thank you all for all your help. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46525	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Pfertz fertilizer - just a dash for the plants. If I don't use the ferts the plants don't do well and that causes other issues, I have found. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:03 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey, > > How are you getting "nitrates 10ppm" using RO water? > Should be Zero, no? > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM > > I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight > or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any > sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very > active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be > missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. > > I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should > I add two more now at noon? > > All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, > nitrates 10ppm. > > Thank you all for all your help. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46526	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Fish in the water. Nitrates are the end number of the nitrogen cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update Hi Lainey,   How are you getting "nitrates 10ppm" using RO water? Should be Zero, no?   Bill --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should I add two more now at noon? All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 10ppm. Thank you all for all your help. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46527	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors

Actually, we would like to see all the fry survive but then the question becomes what is a manageable number?. Years ago I breed dwarf Gouramis. My first attempt was a dismal failure. I got it right the second time and out of approx. 50 fry 35 survived. As they start to grow you start thinking about the logistics of raising an additional 35 fish. I kept a few and gave the rest to my LFS. Just something to think about. The survivors are probably the strongest and healthiest fish. Good breeding stock. Harry --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM   I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should I add two more now at noon? All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 10ppm. Thank you all for all your help. Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46528	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Bill

It's only RO water when it is added. It doesn't stay that way for long because of the fish and plants. Harry --- On Sun, 2/7/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 12:03 PM   Hi Lainey,   How are you getting "nitrates 10ppm" using RO water? Should be Zero, no?   Bill --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight  or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any  sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very  active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be  missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should  I add two more now at noon? All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0,  nitrates 10ppm. Thank you all for all your help. Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46529	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors

Do I have reason to hope that these remainders will survive now? With finches, when you have a pediatric bacterial or fungal outbreak the mortality is almost always 100% unless you intervene with drastic antimicrobials. I don't know anything about fish pediatrics, so not sure what to expect... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:19 PM, harry perry wrote: > Actually, we would like to see all the fry survive but then the > question becomes what is a manageable number?. > > Years ago I breed dwarf Gouramis. My first attempt was a dismal > failure. I got it right the second time and out of approx. 50 fry > 35 survived. As they start to grow you start thinking about the > logistics of raising an additional 35 fish. I kept a few and gave > the rest to my LFS. Just something to think about. The survivors > are probably the strongest and healthiest fish. Good breeding stock. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM > > > > I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight > > or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any > > sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very > > active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be > > missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. > > I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should > > I add two more now at noon? > > All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, > > nitrates 10ppm. > > Thank you all for all your help. > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46530	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors/again

Why not?. You seem to be a caring intelligent person. Make it happen. Water changes. Strengthen their immune system with the D.I.Y. food we talked about. Stay on top of your water testing. As they grow and become stronger you have more options. They could be moved again. Away from the problem tank. A new 10 gal. is cheap and would do while they are still small. The impossible just takes a little longer to achieve. Harry --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 12:22 PM   Do I have reason to hope that these remainders will survive now? With finches, when you have a pediatric bacterial or fungal outbreak the mortality is almost always 100% unless you intervene with drastic antimicrobials. I don't know anything about fish pediatrics, so not sure what to expect... Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:19 PM, harry perry wrote: > Actually, we would like to see all the fry survive but then the > question becomes what is a manageable number?. > > Years ago I breed dwarf Gouramis. My first attempt was a dismal > failure. I got it right the second time and out of approx. 50 fry > 35 survived. As they start to grow you start thinking about the > logistics of raising an additional 35 fish. I kept a few and gave > the rest to my LFS. Just something to think about. The survivors > are probably the strongest and healthiest fish. Good breeding stock. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM > > > > I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight > > or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any > > sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very > > active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be > > missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. > > I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should > > I add two more now at noon? > > All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, > > nitrates 10ppm. > > Thank you all for all your help. > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46531	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Lainey, You may not need to add any more salt, depending upon how the fry now look -- but as you say, you can't get near them with a magnifying glass now to tell. A good indication that shows if they're feeling better is if they are all eating readily. If no more have died since last night, and the rest appear much livelier, it looks like they'll pull through. Still, a physical check on any remaining fungus would be my final criteria, if you can study them all using more time to do this. Not knowing what types of plants you've added, I would not want to recommend an additional dose of salt, only to have some showing negative effects from it, but aside from the plants, I would go ahead with a final dose of anothef Tablespoon per 5 gallons if you're unsure or are unable to check close enough for fungus. As you see, it all hinges around whether some still have any fungus, so you might want to make a special effort in checking for it. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46532	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46533	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors

If they're acting better and eating, they should continue to improve, especially if not carrying any more fungus on them. That's very unfortunate about the Finches, but fish disease cures are most often just that -- provided they are heading in the right direction from here on in -- which should be seen in a lack of the disease manifestation as well as in the fish's demeanor. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46534	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors

With fish, it's usually the weakest fish that will succumb first and then up the ladder if nothing is done. If something is done to stop the pathogen, then the hardier fish will likely survive and actually become stronger since they will have a stronger resistance to this pathogen in the future. I'm not sure why it's not the same for finches. BTW.. is the proper word "pediatric"? I thought that was reserved for humans (babies, infants, etc.). I don't know what the correct word would be for other species but I've never heard any veterinarian that I've used over the years ever refer to pediatric care when dealing with litters of puppies. Wikipedia... not that it's the arbiter of the English language... does agree with me though. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatrics Of course, many folks care for and love their pets as if they were children... I know my dog gets better health care than I provide for myself.. so maybe pediatrics is the correct term. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors Do I have reason to hope that these remainders will survive now? With finches, when you have a pediatric bacterial or fungal outbreak the mortality is almost always 100% unless you intervene with drastic antimicrobials. I don't know anything about fish pediatrics, so not sure what to expect... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:19 PM, harry perry wrote: > Actually, we would like to see all the fry survive but then the > question becomes what is a manageable number?. > > Years ago I breed dwarf Gouramis. My first attempt was a dismal > failure. I got it right the second time and out of approx. 50 fry > 35 survived. As they start to grow you start thinking about the > logistics of raising an additional 35 fish. I kept a few and gave the > rest to my LFS. Just something to think about. The survivors are > probably the strongest and healthiest fish. Good breeding stock. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM > > > > I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight > > or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any > > sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very > > active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be > > missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. > > I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should > > I add two more now at noon? > > All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, > > nitrates 10ppm. > > Thank you all for all your help. > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46535	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

OK, just spent fifteen minutes examining as you were writing this, Ray. The babies look fantastic now, unbelievably, and are eating wildly. However, I see something white on one of the babies' heads. I can't be sure it's fungus, but I think so. That fish looks fine, but there does seem to be one tiny tuft on the head. I am leaning toward one more dose of salt and so be it I guess for the plants. Last night I tried to remove the plants and two fish got caught up in the plants and died, though John says they were dying already so not sure - there is lots of moss and tangled floating stuff. The plants cost me fifty dollars, but hopefully some will make it. (I don't know why the moss was so pricey but that alone was $30.) Anyway, I think I have to do one more round of sea salt, after a PWC in an hour. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, You may not need to add any more salt, depending upon how > the fry > now look -- but as you say, you can't get near them with a > magnifying glass > now to tell. A good indication that shows if they're feeling better > is if > they are all eating readily. If no more have died since last night, > and the > rest appear much livelier, it looks like they'll pull through. > Still, a > physical check on any remaining fungus would be my final criteria, > if you can > study them all using more time to do this. > > Not knowing what types of plants you've added, I would not want to > recommend an additional dose of salt, only to have some showing > negative effects > from it, but aside from the plants, I would go ahead with a final > dose of > anothef Tablespoon per 5 gallons if you're unsure or are unable to > check close > enough for fungus. As you see, it all hinges around whether some > still have > any fungus, so you might want to make a special effort in checking > for it. > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46536	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors

Ya, my vet calls it pediatric in the case of birds, and I use it as kind of a joke:) I think the finches are more vulnerable because they are being fed regurgitated food and also because they are living in tiny nests in proximity to their droppings - IOW once the microbes get into the ecosystem of the nest, there's not any getting away from it. But I'm sure it's the same with skanky unchanged water in a fishtank too. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 2:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > With fish, it's usually the weakest fish that will succumb first > and then up > the ladder if nothing is done. If something is done to stop the > pathogen, > then the hardier fish will likely survive and actually become > stronger since > they will have a stronger resistance to this pathogen in the future. > > I'm not sure why it's not the same for finches. > > BTW.. is the proper word "pediatric"? I thought that was reserved for > humans (babies, infants, etc.). I don't know what the correct word > would be > for other species but I've never heard any veterinarian that I've > used over > the years ever refer to pediatric care when dealing with litters of > puppies. > Wikipedia... not that it's the arbiter of the English language... > does agree > with me though. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatrics Of course, > many folks care for and love their pets as if they were children... > I know > my dog gets better health care than I provide for myself.. so maybe > pediatrics is the correct term. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors > > Do I have reason to hope that these remainders will survive now? > > With finches, when you have a pediatric bacterial or fungal > outbreak the > mortality is almost always 100% unless you intervene with drastic > antimicrobials. I don't know anything about fish pediatrics, so not > sure > what to expect... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:19 PM, harry perry wrote: > > > Actually, we would like to see all the fry survive but then the > > question becomes what is a manageable number?. > > > > Years ago I breed dwarf Gouramis. My first attempt was a dismal > > failure. I got it right the second time and out of approx. 50 fry > > 35 survived. As they start to grow you start thinking about the > > logistics of raising an additional 35 fish. I kept a few and gave > the > > rest to my LFS. Just something to think about. The survivors are > > probably the strongest and healthiest fish. Good breeding stock. > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM > > > > > > > > I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about > eight > > > > or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any > > > > sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very > > > > active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be > > > > missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. > > > > I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should > > > > I add two more now at noon? > > > > All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, > > > > nitrates 10ppm. > > > > Thank you all for all your help. > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY > to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING > the TOPIC > of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46537	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors/Lenny

The correct term is piscatoryatrics. Actually I just made that up. Harry --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 2:10 PM   With fish, it's usually the weakest fish that will succumb first and then up the ladder if nothing is done. If something is done to stop the pathogen, then the hardier fish will likely survive and actually become stronger since they will have a stronger resistance to this pathogen in the future. I'm not sure why it's not the same for finches. BTW.. is the proper word "pediatric"? I thought that was reserved for humans (babies, infants, etc.). I don't know what the correct word would be for other species but I've never heard any veterinarian that I've used over the years ever refer to pediatric care when dealing with litters of puppies. Wikipedia... not that it's the arbiter of the English language... does agree with me though. LOL http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Pediatrics Of course, many folks care for and love their pets as if they were children... I know my dog gets better health care than I provide for myself.. so maybe pediatrics is the correct term. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors Do I have reason to hope that these remainders will survive now? With finches, when you have a pediatric bacterial or fungal outbreak the mortality is almost always 100% unless you intervene with drastic antimicrobials. I don't know anything about fish pediatrics, so not sure what to expect... Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:19 PM, harry perry wrote: > Actually, we would like to see all the fry survive but then the > question becomes what is a manageable number?. > > Years ago I breed dwarf Gouramis. My first attempt was a dismal > failure. I got it right the second time and out of approx. 50 fry > 35 survived. As they start to grow you start thinking about the > logistics of raising an additional 35 fish. I kept a few and gave the > rest to my LFS. Just something to think about. The survivors are > probably the strongest and healthiest fish. Good breeding stock. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM > > > > I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight > > or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any > > sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very > > active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be > > missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. > > I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should > > I add two more now at noon? > > All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, > > nitrates 10ppm. > > Thank you all for all your help. > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46538	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2

Lenny, I did the system following the "Lainey way" that was posted here in the group "with pictures". Lainey, I did it exactly the way you mentioned it below, well except for the fatal mistake of loosening the cap. I would not dare to try this CO2 system ever again, I know my wife won't allow it! Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Tristan - > > I think you are saying that somehow a siphon got created with the CO2 > line - I've never heard of that before, how awful. > > But just to clarify: > > 1. The CO2 bottle has to be set well below the tank so that the sugar > liquid in the bottle doesn't get into the tank. > > 2. The liquid in the CO2 bottle has to be filled only about 3/4 of > the way. > > 3. The cap has to be well sealed on the CO2 bottle. > > 4. You need to pull the CO2 airstone or diffuser out of the tank > overnight to prevent overdosing as plants do not need CO2 at night > since they are not photosynthesizing and there can be a fatal OD to > the fish for that reason. > > And I would add, you always want to check the equipment to make sure > there is air (CO2) in the line rather than liquid after each time > that you have it in the tank and starting up. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 6:39 AM, greyclouds99 wrote: > > > > > Well, I prepared the 2 Litre bottle of low-tech CO2 DIY for my 34 > > gal planted tank, just the way it was explanied earlier in the > > group. I went out of home for a few hours, and when I got back the > > tank was completely dry and the fish were gasping in the remaining > > 1/4" of water! The floor and carpets were all covered in water. The > > water had "climbed" up in the CO2 line and found its way out of the > > loose bottle's lid. I admit the guilt of loosening it to allow the > > CO2 out until I got back, I was "careful" not to cause a CO2 > > poisoning while I was out! > > I was lucky that I only lost a heater and one fish who died because > > he landed on a high spot of gravel, may he rest in peace! > > > > So guys, when you do such DIY projects, do them the right way and > > stay around watching for any possible problems, you may not be as > > lucky as I was, and lose all your fish. > > Most of the fish went back to normal activity right after adding 2" > > of water, although there was a 6 degrees drop in temperature as I > > had to add a rescue bucket of cold conditioned water. > > It's been about 36 hours now, and all the fish look fine. Of course > > I had to fill 100% fresh warmed conditioned water. The parameters > > now are: > > > > NO3 10, NO2 0, GH 10, KH 6, pH 8 > > > > Should I watch for anything now? It seems like the tank is not > > having a mini-cycle, I guess? > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46539	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2

I'm just really sorry this happened, and I hope it wasn't somehow my bad directions? I have been using that system on several tanks with no trouble, and I know a lot of other people who are too, but maybe I should have stressed the cap tightening. I just never heard it could cause a syphon. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:46 PM, greyclouds99 wrote: > Lenny, I did the system following the "Lainey way" that was posted > here in the group "with pictures". > Lainey, I did it exactly the way you mentioned it below, well > except for the fatal mistake of loosening the cap. I would not dare > to try this CO2 system ever again, I know my wife won't allow it! > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Tristan - > > > > I think you are saying that somehow a siphon got created with the > CO2 > > line - I've never heard of that before, how awful. > > > > But just to clarify: > > > > 1. The CO2 bottle has to be set well below the tank so that the > sugar > > liquid in the bottle doesn't get into the tank. > > > > 2. The liquid in the CO2 bottle has to be filled only about 3/4 of > > the way. > > > > 3. The cap has to be well sealed on the CO2 bottle. > > > > 4. You need to pull the CO2 airstone or diffuser out of the tank > > overnight to prevent overdosing as plants do not need CO2 at night > > since they are not photosynthesizing and there can be a fatal OD to > > the fish for that reason. > > > > And I would add, you always want to check the equipment to make sure > > there is air (CO2) in the line rather than liquid after each time > > that you have it in the tank and starting up. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 6:39 AM, greyclouds99 wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, I prepared the 2 Litre bottle of low-tech CO2 DIY for my 34 > > > gal planted tank, just the way it was explanied earlier in the > > > group. I went out of home for a few hours, and when I got back the > > > tank was completely dry and the fish were gasping in the remaining > > > 1/4" of water! The floor and carpets were all covered in water. > The > > > water had "climbed" up in the CO2 line and found its way out of > the > > > loose bottle's lid. I admit the guilt of loosening it to allow the > > > CO2 out until I got back, I was "careful" not to cause a CO2 > > > poisoning while I was out! > > > I was lucky that I only lost a heater and one fish who died > because > > > he landed on a high spot of gravel, may he rest in peace! > > > > > > So guys, when you do such DIY projects, do them the right way and > > > stay around watching for any possible problems, you may not be as > > > lucky as I was, and lose all your fish. > > > Most of the fish went back to normal activity right after > adding 2" > > > of water, although there was a 6 degrees drop in temperature as I > > > had to add a rescue bucket of cold conditioned water. > > > It's been about 36 hours now, and all the fish look fine. Of > course > > > I had to fill 100% fresh warmed conditioned water. The parameters > > > now are: > > > > > > NO3 10, NO2 0, GH 10, KH 6, pH 8 > > > > > > Should I watch for anything now? It seems like the tank is not > > > having a mini-cycle, I guess? > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46540	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Lainey, Remember -- if you do a partial water change, you'll first have to figure the amount of salt to replace when losing it with the removed water, as Lenny indicated earlier. I'm not sure if you caught that though, so to clarify, if you remove 25% of the water you'll be removing 1/2 Tablespoon of salt which needs to be replaced. Then, you can add the next 2 Tablespoons for the 10 gallons which you're intending to do. Incidentally, since you mentioned "Moss," if you happen to have Java Moss, this is descibed as being one of the best brackish tolerant plants you could have in an aquarium. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46541	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

It's willow moss... I plan to take out two gallons. I was just going to add a total of 2 tablespoons after that, figuring a little less than a total of 4T would be a good idea. Is this good? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 2:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Remember -- if you do a partial water change, you'll first > have to > figure the amount of salt to replace when losing it with the > removed water, > as Lenny indicated earlier. I'm not sure if you caught that though, > so to > clarify, if you remove 25% of the water you'll be removing 1/2 > Tablespoon of > salt which needs to be replaced. Then, you can add the next 2 > Tablespoons > for the 10 gallons which you're intending to do. > > Incidentally, since you mentioned "Moss," if you happen to have > Java Moss, > this is descibed as being one of the best brackish tolerant plants > you could > have in an aquarium. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46542	From: harry perry	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

Sugar and yeast combine to form alcohol. If this gets into your tank the results could be a disaster. Always use a check valve. Harry --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW-TECH DIY CO2 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 2:43 PM I'm just really sorry this happened, and I hope it wasn't somehow my  bad directions? I have been using that system on several tanks with  no trouble, and I know a lot of other people who are too, but maybe I  should have stressed the cap tightening. I just never heard it could  cause a syphon. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:46 PM, greyclouds99 wrote: > Lenny, I did the system following the "Lainey way" that was posted  > here in the group "with pictures". > Lainey, I did it exactly the way you mentioned it below, well  > except for the fatal mistake of loosening the cap. I would not dare  > to try this CO2 system ever again, I know my wife won't allow it! > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander  > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Tristan - > > > > I think you are saying that somehow a siphon got created with the  > CO2 > > line - I've never heard of that before, how awful. > > > > But just to clarify: > > > > 1. The CO2 bottle has to be set well below the tank so that the  > sugar > > liquid in the bottle doesn't get into the tank. > > > > 2. The liquid in the CO2 bottle has to be filled only about 3/4 of > > the way. > > > > 3. The cap has to be well sealed on the CO2 bottle. > > > > 4. You need to pull the CO2 airstone or diffuser out of the tank > > overnight to prevent overdosing as plants do not need CO2 at night > > since they are not photosynthesizing and there can be a fatal OD to > > the fish for that reason. > > > > And I would add, you always want to check the equipment to make sure > > there is air (CO2) in the line rather than liquid after each time > > that you have it in the tank and starting up. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 6:39 AM, greyclouds99 wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, I prepared the 2 Litre bottle of low-tech CO2 DIY for my 34 > > > gal planted tank, just the way it was explanied earlier in the > > > group. I went out of home for a few hours, and when I got back the > > > tank was completely dry and the fish were gasping in the remaining > > > 1/4" of water! The floor and carpets were all covered in water.  > The > > > water had "climbed" up in the CO2 line and found its way out of  > the > > > loose bottle's lid. I admit the guilt of loosening it to allow the > > > CO2 out until I got back, I was "careful" not to cause a CO2 > > > poisoning while I was out! > > > I was lucky that I only lost a heater and one fish who died  > because > > > he landed on a high spot of gravel, may he rest in peace! > > > > > > So guys, when you do such DIY projects, do them the right way and > > > stay around watching for any possible problems, you may not be as > > > lucky as I was, and lose all your fish. > > > Most of the fish went back to normal activity right after  > adding 2" > > > of water, although there was a 6 degrees drop in temperature as I > > > had to add a rescue bucket of cold conditioned water. > > > It's been about 36 hours now, and all the fish look fine. Of  > course > > > I had to fill 100% fresh warmed conditioned water. The parameters > > > now are: > > > > > > NO3 10, NO2 0, GH 10, KH 6, pH 8 > > > > > > Should I watch for anything now? It seems like the tank is not > > > having a mini-cycle, I guess? > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Were all of these brand new plants or plants that you transferred from your other tanks? If they were new, they could also brought in some kind of pathogen. Many of us quarantine new plants, even after sanitizing them, just to make sure any fish pathogens die off without a host. I'm not sure how many doses of salt that you have done or what level of salinity you are up to but salt is NOT like other medicines where it loses its strength after a certain period and has to be re-dosed. Salt builds up and is only removed by doing PWC's with unsalted water. Most other meds can be removed by PWC's and chemical filtration (carbon, etc.) I kind of remember you doing an initial dose of 1 tablespoon per 5G and then doing a second dose of the same amount. Since a tablespoon is equal to 3 teaspoons, you would be up to 6 teaspoons per 5G or 12 teaspoons per 10G which would be a 0.12% salinity level. 0.1% is usually sufficient for many milder pathogens (and still mild enough for most plants) although sometimes, folks have to raise it up to 0.2% and then 0.3% or more for some hardy pathogens and these higher levels will usually become more detrimental to more plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update OK, just spent fifteen minutes examining as you were writing this, Ray. The babies look fantastic now, unbelievably, and are eating wildly. However, I see something white on one of the babies' heads. I can't be sure it's fungus, but I think so. That fish looks fine, but there does seem to be one tiny tuft on the head. I am leaning toward one more dose of salt and so be it I guess for the plants. Last night I tried to remove the plants and two fish got caught up in the plants and died, though John says they were dying already so not sure - there is lots of moss and tangled floating stuff. The plants cost me fifty dollars, but hopefully some will make it. (I don't know why the moss was so pricey but that alone was $30.) Anyway, I think I have to do one more round of sea salt, after a PWC in an hour. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, You may not need to add any more salt, depending upon how the > fry now look -- but as you say, you can't get near them with a > magnifying glass now to tell. A good indication that shows if they're > feeling better is if they are all eating readily. If no more have died > since last night, and the rest appear much livelier, it looks like > they'll pull through. > Still, a > physical check on any remaining fungus would be my final criteria, if > you can study them all using more time to do this. > > Not knowing what types of plants you've added, I would not want to > recommend an additional dose of salt, only to have some showing > negative effects from it, but aside from the plants, I would go ahead > with a final dose of anothef Tablespoon per 5 gallons if you're unsure > or are unable to check close enough for fungus. As you see, it all > hinges around whether some still have any fungus, so you might want to > make a special effort in checking for it. > Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46544	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

John has just informed me that the Red Sea diffusers I am using have a built-in check valve. Not sure if other diffusers do, but certainly airstones don't come with them. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 3:10 PM, harry perry wrote: > Sugar and yeast combine to form alcohol. If this gets into your > tank the results could be a disaster. Always use a check valve. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW- > TECH DIY CO2 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 2:43 PM > > I'm just really sorry this happened, and I hope it wasn't somehow my > bad directions? I have been using that system on several tanks with > no trouble, and I know a lot of other people who are too, but maybe I > should have stressed the cap tightening. I just never heard it could > cause a syphon. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:46 PM, greyclouds99 wrote: > > > Lenny, I did the system following the "Lainey way" that was posted > > here in the group "with pictures". > > Lainey, I did it exactly the way you mentioned it below, well > > except for the fatal mistake of loosening the cap. I would not dare > > to try this CO2 system ever again, I know my wife won't allow it! > > > > Tristan > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > Tristan - > > > > > > I think you are saying that somehow a siphon got created with the > > CO2 > > > line - I've never heard of that before, how awful. > > > > > > But just to clarify: > > > > > > 1. The CO2 bottle has to be set well below the tank so that the > > sugar > > > liquid in the bottle doesn't get into the tank. > > > > > > 2. The liquid in the CO2 bottle has to be filled only about 3/4 of > > > the way. > > > > > > 3. The cap has to be well sealed on the CO2 bottle. > > > > > > 4. You need to pull the CO2 airstone or diffuser out of the tank > > > overnight to prevent overdosing as plants do not need CO2 at night > > > since they are not photosynthesizing and there can be a fatal > OD to > > > the fish for that reason. > > > > > > And I would add, you always want to check the equipment to make > sure > > > there is air (CO2) in the line rather than liquid after each time > > > that you have it in the tank and starting up. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 6:39 AM, greyclouds99 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I prepared the 2 Litre bottle of low-tech CO2 DIY for > my 34 > > > > gal planted tank, just the way it was explanied earlier in the > > > > group. I went out of home for a few hours, and when I got > back the > > > > tank was completely dry and the fish were gasping in the > remaining > > > > 1/4" of water! The floor and carpets were all covered in water. > > The > > > > water had "climbed" up in the CO2 line and found its way out of > > the > > > > loose bottle's lid. I admit the guilt of loosening it to > allow the > > > > CO2 out until I got back, I was "careful" not to cause a CO2 > > > > poisoning while I was out! > > > > I was lucky that I only lost a heater and one fish who died > > because > > > > he landed on a high spot of gravel, may he rest in peace! > > > > > > > > So guys, when you do such DIY projects, do them the right way > and > > > > stay around watching for any possible problems, you may not > be as > > > > lucky as I was, and lose all your fish. > > > > Most of the fish went back to normal activity right after > > adding 2" > > > > of water, although there was a 6 degrees drop in temperature > as I > > > > had to add a rescue bucket of cold conditioned water. > > > > It's been about 36 hours now, and all the fish look fine. Of > > course > > > > I had to fill 100% fresh warmed conditioned water. The > parameters > > > > now are: > > > > > > > > NO3 10, NO2 0, GH 10, KH 6, pH 8 > > > > > > > > Should I watch for anything now? It seems like the tank is not > > > > having a mini-cycle, I guess? > > > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46545	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors

That "skanky unchanged water" is why we stress frequent PWC's so often! ;-) The PWC in and of itself will remove a percentage of the waterborne pathogens with the removed water... and if vacuuming the gravel in such a tank, also removes the bad bacteria that thrives down in the deeper recesses of skanky gravel. I guess the younger folks out here are Googling to see what "skanky" is right now... while us folks who were alive in the 70's know exactly what it is. LOL Here is Marina's "Hot For Words" explanation of the history and origin. ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzEmVNB0YeA (If you watch Bill O'Reilly on a regular basis, you'll recognize this internet celebrity) While at her YouTube page, check out her other vids for some *GOOD LEARNIN*!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors Ya, my vet calls it pediatric in the case of birds, and I use it as kind of a joke:) I think the finches are more vulnerable because they are being fed regurgitated food and also because they are living in tiny nests in proximity to their droppings - IOW once the microbes get into the ecosystem of the nest, there's not any getting away from it. But I'm sure it's the same with skanky unchanged water in a fishtank too. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 2:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > With fish, it's usually the weakest fish that will succumb first and > then up the ladder if nothing is done. If something is done to stop > the pathogen, then the hardier fish will likely survive and actually > become stronger since they will have a stronger resistance to this > pathogen in the future. > > I'm not sure why it's not the same for finches. > > BTW.. is the proper word "pediatric"? I thought that was reserved for > humans (babies, infants, etc.). I don't know what the correct word > would be for other species but I've never heard any veterinarian that > I've used over the years ever refer to pediatric care when dealing > with litters of puppies. > Wikipedia... not that it's the arbiter of the English language... > does agree > with me though. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatrics Of course, > many folks care for and love their pets as if they were children... > I know > my dog gets better health care than I provide for myself.. so maybe > pediatrics is the correct term. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors > > Do I have reason to hope that these remainders will survive now? > > With finches, when you have a pediatric bacterial or fungal outbreak > the mortality is almost always 100% unless you intervene with drastic > antimicrobials. I don't know anything about fish pediatrics, so not > sure what to expect... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:19 PM, harry perry wrote: > > > Actually, we would like to see all the fry survive but then the > > question becomes what is a manageable number?. > > > > Years ago I breed dwarf Gouramis. My first attempt was a dismal > > failure. I got it right the second time and out of approx. 50 fry > > 35 survived. As they start to grow you start thinking about the > > logistics of raising an additional 35 fish. I kept a few and gave > the > > rest to my LFS. Just something to think about. The survivors are > > probably the strongest and healthiest fish. Good breeding stock. > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM > > > > > > > > I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about > eight > > > > or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any > > > > sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very > > > > active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be > > > > missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. > > > > I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should > > > > I add two more now at noon? > > > > All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, > > > > nitrates 10ppm. > > > > Thank you all for all your help. > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors/Lenny

Did you Google to be sure? You must have since it's not showing up but I decided to do a little Googling of similar made up words and found "pisceatrics" with only one hit on Google... but it was for a different yet quite novel use as a reply to a forum post. "Pisceatric treatment! Sure! Instead of saying I'm going fishing, I'll say I'm going for pisceatric treatment! Or...I'm seeking treatment for my addiction. Hey, it's America. Isn't everyone being treated for some kind of addiction? We'll all fit right in. We can start a Twelve Depth Program! DonInDenver" http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Utah_Fishing_Forum_C55/Flaming_Gorge,_Fis h_Lake,_Lake_Powell_Fish_Report_F95/I_hate_lake_trout!_P350213/gforum.cgi?do =post_view_threaded;post=351080 Sounds like DonInDenver has a good sense of humor and quick wit about him! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors/Lenny The correct term is piscatoryatrics. Actually I just made that up. Harry --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 2:10 PM With fish, it's usually the weakest fish that will succumb first and then up the ladder if nothing is done. If something is done to stop the pathogen, then the hardier fish will likely survive and actually become stronger since they will have a stronger resistance to this pathogen in the future. I'm not sure why it's not the same for finches. BTW.. is the proper word "pediatric"? I thought that was reserved for humans (babies, infants, etc.). I don't know what the correct word would be for other species but I've never heard any veterinarian that I've used over the years ever refer to pediatric care when dealing with litters of puppies. Wikipedia... not that it's the arbiter of the English language... does agree with me though. LOL http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Pediatrics Of course, many folks care for and love their pets as if they were children... I know my dog gets better health care than I provide for myself.. so maybe pediatrics is the correct term. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors Do I have reason to hope that these remainders will survive now? With finches, when you have a pediatric bacterial or fungal outbreak the mortality is almost always 100% unless you intervene with drastic antimicrobials. I don't know anything about fish pediatrics, so not sure what to expect... Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:19 PM, harry perry wrote: > Actually, we would like to see all the fry survive but then the > question becomes what is a manageable number?. > > Years ago I breed dwarf Gouramis. My first attempt was a dismal > failure. I got it right the second time and out of approx. 50 fry > 35 survived. As they start to grow you start thinking about the > logistics of raising an additional 35 fish. I kept a few and gave the > rest to my LFS. Just something to think about. The survivors are > probably the strongest and healthiest fish. Good breeding stock. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM > > > > I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about eight > > or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any > > sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very > > active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be > > missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. > > I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should > > I add two more now at noon? > > All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, > > nitrates 10ppm. > > Thank you all for all your help. > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46547	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

NO... when removing only 2G, only a 10% PWC, you would not be removing 4 tablespoons of salt.. or did 4T mean 4 teaspoons? I always spell it out since folks constantly mess up on translating the abbreviations for those measurements. Since you would only be removing 10% of the salt that you previously dosed, you should only replace that amount with the incoming water. Then if you are going to raise the level of salt once again, do so as a full tank treatment so you can keep track of how many teaspoons per gallon or tablespoons per 5G that you've been adding. I like teaspoons per gallon as it translates into 0.1%, 0.2%, etc. and is based on 1 to 10 dosing for simplicity. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update It's willow moss... I plan to take out two gallons. I was just going to add a total of 2 tablespoons after that, figuring a little less than a total of 4T would be a good idea. Is this good? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 2:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Remember -- if you do a partial water change, you'll first > have to figure the amount of salt to replace when losing it with the > removed water, as Lenny indicated earlier. I'm not sure if you caught > that though, so to clarify, if you remove 25% of the water you'll be > removing 1/2 Tablespoon of salt which needs to be replaced. Then, you > can add the next 2 Tablespoons for the 10 gallons which you're > intending to do. > > Incidentally, since you mentioned "Moss," if you happen to have Java > Moss, this is descibed as being one of the best brackish tolerant > plants you could have in an aquarium. Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46548	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

The other thing I'm wondering is if Tristan had the air line shoved down into the liquid instead of just barely into the bottle to only allow the generated CO2 gas to enter the air line? If the line did get down into the liquid and some of the liquid traveled up the line, then when he loosened the bottle cap, that liquid would have drained down back into the bottle and with it, it would have started pulling some of the tank water up the air line and once that water made it over the top of the tank, the siphon would have gotten started. If the line was only getting CO2 gas into it, then I'm still confused how the siphon got started. Of course, the same can be said for air pumps that fail or when the power goes out... how does the water travel up the tube, from inside the tank, to get over the top of the tank in the first place to start the siphon? Or possibly a failing air pump or an air pump that loses power could cause the motor/piston to reverse somehow which would draw some of the water up the line and that might be all it needs to get started.... but then how does that equate with the bottle of CO2 mix? Or.... maybe the cooling air contracts in the line and sucks up some of the water. That would be likely with either the air pump failure but still not sure about the CO2 bottle with the cap loosened... unless when the CO2 mix started cooling, it created a vacuum from the contraction and that pulled the cap down just enough to seal it and then it started sucking water into the line and then as the water started filling up the CO2 bottle, that released the slight vacuum that had temporarily closed the bottle top and then the water could start overflowing the bottle as it drained the tank. OK... anyone who understands what I just tried to explain... let me know if you think I'm on the correct track. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle John has just informed me that the Red Sea diffusers I am using have a built-in check valve. Not sure if other diffusers do, but certainly airstones don't come with them. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 3:10 PM, harry perry wrote: > Sugar and yeast combine to form alcohol. If this gets into your tank > the results could be a disaster. Always use a check valve. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What they don't tell you about a LOW- > TECH DIY CO2 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 2:43 PM > > I'm just really sorry this happened, and I hope it wasn't somehow my > bad directions? I have been using that system on several tanks with no > trouble, and I know a lot of other people who are too, but maybe I > should have stressed the cap tightening. I just never heard it could > cause a syphon. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:46 PM, greyclouds99 wrote: > > > Lenny, I did the system following the "Lainey way" that was posted > > here in the group "with pictures". > > Lainey, I did it exactly the way you mentioned it below, well except > > for the fatal mistake of loosening the cap. I would not dare to try > > this CO2 system ever again, I know my wife won't allow it! > > > > Tristan > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Tristan - > > > > > > I think you are saying that somehow a siphon got created with the > > CO2 > > > line - I've never heard of that before, how awful. > > > > > > But just to clarify: > > > > > > 1. The CO2 bottle has to be set well below the tank so that the > > sugar > > > liquid in the bottle doesn't get into the tank. > > > > > > 2. The liquid in the CO2 bottle has to be filled only about 3/4 of > > > the way. > > > > > > 3. The cap has to be well sealed on the CO2 bottle. > > > > > > 4. You need to pull the CO2 airstone or diffuser out of the tank > > > overnight to prevent overdosing as plants do not need CO2 at night > > > since they are not photosynthesizing and there can be a fatal > OD to > > > the fish for that reason. > > > > > > And I would add, you always want to check the equipment to make > sure > > > there is air (CO2) in the line rather than liquid after each time > > > that you have it in the tank and starting up. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 6:39 AM, greyclouds99 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I prepared the 2 Litre bottle of low-tech CO2 DIY for > my 34 > > > > gal planted tank, just the way it was explanied earlier in the > > > > group. I went out of home for a few hours, and when I got > back the > > > > tank was completely dry and the fish were gasping in the > remaining > > > > 1/4" of water! The floor and carpets were all covered in water. > > The > > > > water had "climbed" up in the CO2 line and found its way out of > > the > > > > loose bottle's lid. I admit the guilt of loosening it to > allow the > > > > CO2 out until I got back, I was "careful" not to cause a CO2 > > > > poisoning while I was out! > > > > I was lucky that I only lost a heater and one fish who died > > because > > > > he landed on a high spot of gravel, may he rest in peace! > > > > > > > > So guys, when you do such DIY projects, do them the right way > and > > > > stay around watching for any possible problems, you may not > be as > > > > lucky as I was, and lose all your fish. > > > > Most of the fish went back to normal activity right after > > adding 2" > > > > of water, although there was a 6 degrees drop in temperature > as I > > > > had to add a rescue bucket of cold conditioned water. > > > > It's been about 36 hours now, and all the fish look fine. Of > > course > > > > I had to fill 100% fresh warmed conditioned water. The > parameters > > > > now are: > > > > > > > > NO3 10, NO2 0, GH 10, KH 6, pH 8 > > > > > > > > Should I watch for anything now? It seems like the tank is not > > > > having a mini-cycle, I guess? > > > > > > > > Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46549	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

No, I know this Lenny. I was meant to add two T yesterday and two more T today - I just thought I'd leave out the little extra amount that would be needed from doing a two g WC as it would go a little easier on the plants. I'll add the little extra later if Ray tells me to:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > NO... when removing only 2G, only a 10% PWC, you would not be > removing 4 > tablespoons of salt.. or did 4T mean 4 teaspoons? I always spell it > out > since folks constantly mess up on translating the abbreviations for > those > measurements. Since you would only be removing 10% of the salt that > you > previously dosed, you should only replace that amount with the > incoming > water. Then if you are going to raise the level of salt once again, > do so > as a full tank treatment so you can keep track of how many > teaspoons per > gallon or tablespoons per 5G that you've been adding. I like > teaspoons per > gallon as it translates into 0.1%, 0.2%, etc. and is based on 1 to > 10 dosing > for simplicity. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > > It's willow moss... > > I plan to take out two gallons. I was just going to add a total of 2 > tablespoons after that, figuring a little less than a total of 4T > would be a > good idea. > > Is this good? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 2:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Remember -- if you do a partial water change, you'll first > > have to figure the amount of salt to replace when losing it with the > > removed water, as Lenny indicated earlier. I'm not sure if you > caught > > that though, so to clarify, if you remove 25% of the water you'll be > > removing 1/2 Tablespoon of salt which needs to be replaced. Then, > you > > can add the next 2 Tablespoons for the 10 gallons which you're > > intending to do. > > > > Incidentally, since you mentioned "Moss," if you happen to have Java > > Moss, this is descibed as being one of the best brackish tolerant > > plants you could have in an aquarium. Ray </HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46550	From: Debra Melton	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors

Hmmmm, Skanky a picture IS worth a thousand words. ; ) Deb Who Dat OS, MS On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > That "skanky unchanged water" is why we stress frequent PWC's so often! ;-) > The PWC in and of itself will remove a percentage of the waterborne > pathogens with the removed water... and if vacuuming the gravel in such a > tank, also removes the bad bacteria that thrives down in the deeper > recesses > of skanky gravel. > > I guess the younger folks out here are Googling to see what "skanky" is > right now... while us folks who were alive in the 70's know exactly what it > is. LOL > > Here is Marina's "Hot For Words" explanation of the history and origin. ;-) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzEmVNB0YeA (If you watch Bill O'Reilly on > a > regular basis, you'll recognize this internet celebrity) While at her > YouTube page, check out her other vids for some *GOOD LEARNIN*!!! ;-) > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors > > Ya, my vet calls it pediatric in the case of birds, and I use it as kind of > a joke:) > > I think the finches are more vulnerable because they are being fed > regurgitated food and also because they are living in tiny nests in > proximity to their droppings - IOW once the microbes get into the ecosystem > of the nest, there's not any getting away from it. But I'm sure it's the > same with skanky unchanged water in a fishtank too. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 2:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > With fish, it's usually the weakest fish that will succumb first and > > then up the ladder if nothing is done. If something is done to stop > > the pathogen, then the hardier fish will likely survive and actually > > become stronger since they will have a stronger resistance to this > > pathogen in the future. > > > > I'm not sure why it's not the same for finches. > > > > BTW.. is the proper word "pediatric"? I thought that was reserved for > > humans (babies, infants, etc.). I don't know what the correct word > > would be for other species but I've never heard any veterinarian that > > I've used over the years ever refer to pediatric care when dealing > > with litters of puppies. > > Wikipedia... not that it's the arbiter of the English language... > > does agree > > with me though. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatrics Of course, > > many folks care for and love their pets as if they were children... > > I know > > my dog gets better health care than I provide for myself.. so maybe > > pediatrics is the correct term. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY > > DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update/Lainey, survivors > > > > Do I have reason to hope that these remainders will survive now? > > > > With finches, when you have a pediatric bacterial or fungal outbreak > > the mortality is almost always 100% unless you intervene with drastic > > antimicrobials. I don't know anything about fish pediatrics, so not > > sure what to expect... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 12:19 PM, harry perry wrote: > > > > > Actually, we would like to see all the fry survive but then the > > > question becomes what is a manageable number?. > > > > > > Years ago I breed dwarf Gouramis. My first attempt was a dismal > > > failure. I got it right the second time and out of approx. 50 fry > > > 35 survived. As they start to grow you start thinking about the > > > logistics of raising an additional 35 fish. I kept a few and gave > > the > > > rest to my LFS. Just something to think about. The survivors are > > > probably the strongest and healthiest fish. Good breeding stock. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...<lainealex%40earthlink.net> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...<lainealex%40earthlink.net> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:47 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > I think there are about nine or ten babies left - I think about > > eight > > > > > > or nine died. I have removed all the ones that died. I can't see any > > > > > > sick ones or any fuzz on the ones that remain, and they seem very > > > > > > active and alert. They don't tolerate the mag glass now, so I may be > > > > > > missing some fuzz, but I know that at least six don't have any fuzz. > > > > > > I applied 2 tablespoons of sea salt last night at 1:30 am, so should > > > > > > I add two more now at noon? > > > > > > All water params look good. pH 6, gH 5, KH 1, ammo 0, nitrites 0, > > > > > > nitrates 10ppm. > > > > > > Thank you all for all your help. > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46551	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Uptate on ram babies 6:30pm

I see about twelve babies and they all look great. I can't find any tufts of fungus. They are eating voraciously and darting all around looking ferocious. I am thinking the sea salt may have been very helpful. I did end up doing a total of 4T per 10g. Thanks so much everyone for all the help, I really am surprised and pleased that I still have some good-looking little guys left. Y'all enjoy the Game now... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46552	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants

Lenny mentioned sanitizing new plants. How is this done? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 12:13:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update Were all of these brand new plants or plants that you transferred from your other tanks? If they were new, they could also brought in some kind of pathogen. Many of us quarantine new plants, even after sanitizing them, just to make sure any fish pathogens die off without a host. I'm not sure how many doses of salt that you have done or what level of salinity you are up to but salt is NOT like other medicines where it loses its strength after a certain period and has to be re-dosed. Salt builds up and is only removed by doing PWC's with unsalted water. Most other meds can be removed by PWC's and chemical filtration (carbon, etc.) I kind of remember you doing an initial dose of 1 tablespoon per 5G and then doing a second dose of the same amount. Since a tablespoon is equal to 3 teaspoons, you would be up to 6 teaspoons per 5G or 12 teaspoons per 10G which would be a 0.12% salinity level. 0.1% is usually sufficient for many milder pathogens (and still mild enough for most plants) although sometimes, folks have to raise it up to 0.2% and then 0.3% or more for some hardy pathogens and these higher levels will usually become more detrimental to more plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update OK, just spent fifteen minutes examining as you were writing this, Ray. The babies look fantastic now, unbelievably, and are eating wildly. However, I see something white on one of the babies' heads. I can't be sure it's fungus, but I think so. That fish looks fine, but there does seem to be one tiny tuft on the head. I am leaning toward one more dose of salt and so be it I guess for the plants. Last night I tried to remove the plants and two fish got caught up in the plants and died, though John says they were dying already so not sure - there is lots of moss and tangled floating stuff. The plants cost me fifty dollars, but hopefully some will make it. (I don't know why the moss was so pricey but that alone was $30.) Anyway, I think I have to do one more round of sea salt, after a PWC in an hour. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, You may not need to add any more salt, depending upon how the > fry now look -- but as you say, you can't get near them with a > magnifying glass now to tell. A good indication that shows if they're > feeling better is if they are all eating readily. If no more have died > since last night, and the rest appear much livelier, it looks like > they'll pull through. > Still, a > physical check on any remaining fungus would be my final criteria, if > you can study them all using more time to do this. > > Not knowing what types of plants you've added, I would not want to > recommend an additional dose of salt, only to have some showing > negative effects from it, but aside from the plants, I would go ahead > with a final dose of anothef Tablespoon per 5 gallons if you're unsure > or are unable to check close enough for fungus. As you see, it all > hinges around whether some still have any fungus, so you might want to > make a special effort in checking for it. > Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46553	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is quite striking. This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a color picture of the fish on page 3) at: http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46554	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Hi Lainey, On the salt removed with your PWC, I just assumed that you'd go ahead and do it and that you didn't need further input from me. As you'll note, I'm not always up on line 100% of the time to continually oversee what's happening here, in fact I was busy watching the Superbowl Game all evening. Anytime you're recommended to to a certain doseage of any agent for the purpose of counteracting a disease, the stated doseage for acting against the disease should be of first concern, otherwise there's little purpose for such recommendations. This 10% difference in salt one way or the other is not going to make a hugh difference in the whole scheme of things but could have been the difference between success and failure of treating a more resistant strain of a pathogen when using medications needing more precise doses. Still, even with salt, it's in the best interest in the fish's treatment to use the maximum amounts allowable when still taking into consideration the effects of it on plants. Your 2 gallon water change would have meant that you removed 20% of the water, and with it, 20% of the initial 2 Tablespoon salt dose for a total, of 0.2 (or 1/5) of a Tablespoon. Not a whole lot but every bit helps in treating a disease, and this difference is not going to add very much addition stress on the plants that already have or haven't been playing on the plants already. I guess you never did find out what kind(s) of plants you have, since I never heard any more from my suggestion that you may have Java Moss (?) -- a highly resistant species towards salt. Ray. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46555	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/7/2010
Subject: Re: Uptate on ram babies 6:30pm

Glad to see that you have 12 fry that pulled through this disaster. Since you may have been tempted to try to keep them all anyway, at least what you have now should be the strongest of the bunch and you will not be as crowded with them. With care, you should be better able to raise what you have left without their becoming too large of a bioload and without them stunting each other as a possible result. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46556	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Heater Size

Hi, As I mentioned before, I lost my heater due to the CO2 system disaster. I've been using my spare 100W heater, and it's keeping the temp nice and steady for me, although these are the coldest days of winter. The broken heater was 150w and 2" longer than this 100w heater. Do I need to switch to a higher heater's capacity for my 34 gal? Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46557	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

Now that is one handsome fish! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 9:32 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep   In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is quite striking. This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a color picture of the fish on page 3) at: http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46558	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size

Tristan, Sorry to hear about that CO2 - cap disaster, even though you lost only one fish. If your 100 Watt spare heater is keeping your temp nice and steady, even in these coldest days of Winter, why would you consider getting one with a higher heating capacity? -- Unless this spare heater is working "overtime" (remaining on most of the time). Your 150 Watt heater may just have been more than what was needed as that would have given you almost 5 Watts per gallon. As it is now, your spare heater is giving you almost exactly 3 Watts per gallon. I guess it really comes down to what temperature you keep the room at -- and what you consider as your temperature being kept "nice and steady." Three Watts per gallon will raise the temperature 7.5 o above the ambient temperature. It sounds like you may be keeping the room at least at 72 o, as your spare heater should be able to maintain a temperature as high as 79.5 o. A 77 o or 78 o temperature would be fine, if that's what you consider "nice and steady." Still, this is not allowing much room for leeway, and probably wouldn't allow for you to be able to raise the temperature much more in case you ever needed to treat for Ich. Since you're contemplating buying another heater at this time, I would suggest your purchasing TWO 75 Watt heaters which will give you plenty of margin and at the same time give you plenty of safety in not overheating in case of one sticking on and in maintaining at least a moderate temperature if one fails completely. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants

See my blog article on "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank". A quarter way down the page has the info on sanitizing plants and a few links for even more info. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 6:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants Lenny mentioned sanitizing new plants. How is this done? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 12:13:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update Were all of these brand new plants or plants that you transferred from your other tanks? If they were new, they could also brought in some kind of pathogen. Many of us quarantine new plants, even after sanitizing them, just to make sure any fish pathogens die off without a host. I'm not sure how many doses of salt that you have done or what level of salinity you are up to but salt is NOT like other medicines where it loses its strength after a certain period and has to be re-dosed. Salt builds up and is only removed by doing PWC's with unsalted water. Most other meds can be removed by PWC's and chemical filtration (carbon, etc.) I kind of remember you doing an initial dose of 1 tablespoon per 5G and then doing a second dose of the same amount. Since a tablespoon is equal to 3 teaspoons, you would be up to 6 teaspoons per 5G or 12 teaspoons per 10G which would be a 0.12% salinity level. 0.1% is usually sufficient for many milder pathogens (and still mild enough for most plants) although sometimes, folks have to raise it up to 0.2% and then 0.3% or more for some hardy pathogens and these higher levels will usually become more detrimental to more plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update OK, just spent fifteen minutes examining as you were writing this, Ray. The babies look fantastic now, unbelievably, and are eating wildly. However, I see something white on one of the babies' heads. I can't be sure it's fungus, but I think so. That fish looks fine, but there does seem to be one tiny tuft on the head. I am leaning toward one more dose of salt and so be it I guess for the plants. Last night I tried to remove the plants and two fish got caught up in the plants and died, though John says they were dying already so not sure - there is lots of moss and tangled floating stuff. The plants cost me fifty dollars, but hopefully some will make it. (I don't know why the moss was so pricey but that alone was $30.) Anyway, I think I have to do one more round of sea salt, after a PWC in an hour. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, You may not need to add any more salt, depending upon how the > fry now look -- but as you say, you can't get near them with a > magnifying glass now to tell. A good indication that shows if they're > feeling better is if they are all eating readily. If no more have died > since last night, and the rest appear much livelier, it looks like > they'll pull through. > Still, a > physical check on any remaining fungus would be my final criteria, if > you can study them all using more time to do this. > > Not knowing what types of plants you've added, I would not want to > recommend an additional dose of salt, only to have some showing > negative effects from it, but aside from the plants, I would go ahead > with a final dose of anothef Tablespoon per 5 gallons if you're unsure > or are unable to check close enough for fungus. As you see, it all > hinges around whether some still have any fungus, so you might want to > make a special effort in checking for it. > Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

Yeah.... well us Saints FANS have an "antifreeze agent" in our bodily fluids right now too. It's called ALCOHOL!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY WAS GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? NOT DEM COLTS!!!! WHO DAT!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is quite striking. This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a color picture of the fish on page 3) at: http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46561	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46562	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Uptate on ram babies 6:30pm

God works in mysterious ways. ;-) AMEN! BTW... "AMEN!" was the headline for our Saints Super Bowl win, on our local newspaper, the Times-Picayune. How'd you like that segue! LOL OK... time to go lick the hair of the dog that bit me... Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 1:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Uptate on ram babies 6:30pm Glad to see that you have 12 fry that pulled through this disaster. Since you may have been tempted to try to keep them all anyway, at least what you have now should be the strongest of the bunch and you will not be as crowded with them. With care, you should be better able to raise what you have left without their becoming too large of a bioload and without them stunting each other as a possible result. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size

It depends on what your normal room temperatures are like and what temperature you want to keep the tank at. It doesn't matter what the outside temps are like. If you keep your home at 72F year round and you want you tank at 78F, then your 100W heater should be fine, since you have nearly three watts per gallon. If your room temp gets down into the 60's, you may want to increase your wattage... but if you do that, keep the 100W that you currently have and just add a 2nd heater of 50W (or a 2nd 100W if your room temp ever gets down into the low 60's) so that you have redundancy in the event either heater ever fails. Here's a snip from TheKrib's Beginner FAQ's about heaters... http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-hardware.html#essentials Heaters If you are keeping tropical fish, you will need a heater. A heater insures that a tank doesn't get too cool, and that the temperature stays steady during the course of the day, even when the room cools off (e.g., at night). For many tropical fish, a temperature of 78F is ideal. There are two main heater types. Submersible heaters stay completely below the water. A second, more traditional style, has a partially submerged glass tube (which contains the heating coils), but leaves the controls above the water. Submersible heaters are the better design, as they can be placed horizontally along the tank's bottom. This helps keep tank temperature uniform (heat rises), and prevents the heater from becoming exposed while doing partial water changes. With the traditional design, one must remember to unplug the heater before doing water changes; if the heater is accidentally left on while the coil is above the water, the tube gets hot and may crack when you fill the tank back up with water. If your room is never more than 8-10F degrees cooler than your target tank temperature, a heater of roughly 2.5 Watts per gallon will suffice. If the differential is higher, up to 5 Watts (or more) per gallon may be necessary. Remember, the heater needs to keep the tank at its target temperature, even when the room is at its coldest point; the tank's temperature should not fluctuate. Heaters (especially cheap ones) will fail. Most often the contact that actually turns the heater on and off gets permanently stuck, either in the on or off position. In the former case, your tank can get VERY hot, especially if the heater is larger than your tank actually requires. To minimize potential problems, avoid heaters larger than the optimal size for your tank. To prevent winter disasters, use two smaller heaters in parallel rather than one large one. That way if one fails, the consequences won't be as disastrous. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heater Size Hi, As I mentioned before, I lost my heater due to the CO2 system disaster. I've been using my spare 100W heater, and it's keeping the temp nice and steady for me, although these are the coldest days of winter. The broken heater was 150w and 2" longer than this 100w heater. Do I need to switch to a higher heater's capacity for my 34 gal? Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46564	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

Hmmmmm... I wonder if Mike says the same thing when he looks in a mirror? ;-) I was thinking, "A face only a mother could love" when I saw the close-up of the fish's face. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep Now that is one handsome fish! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 9:32 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep   In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is quite striking. This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a color picture of the fish on page 3) at: http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46565	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

Lenny, Unlike the fish I was talking about, simply adding alcohol to your bodily fluids will not mean you are immune to freezing. You would probably be aware of this if you had temperatures that ever got below the freezing point of water. Also, keep in mind that salt water has a lower freezing point temperature than freshwater does. Consider, too, that the fish is found at depths of a mile or more below the surface, which enough alcohol consumption may cause you to at least think of trying, and your chance of survival is even less. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep Yeah.... well us Saints FANS have an "antifreeze agent" in our bodily fluids right now too. It's called ALCOHOL!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY WAS GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? NOT DEM COLTS!!!! WHO DAT!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is quite striking. This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a color picture of the fish on page 3) at: http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46566	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete pass. For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on the human body still stands. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46567	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

You must not have been down here for Mardi Gras in one of the few years where we actually had freezing temperatures. We still have the same number of almost nude folks and flashing girls all around the French Quarter and other mostly adult areas of Mardi Gras, relying solely on alcohol heating! At least that's what I relied on while roaming the streets in my barrel... and nothing else on under the barrel! LOL Lots of shocked faces by the tourists who were brave enough to kneel down and look through the 25 cents peep hole... and I usually made enough money for my next drink! LOL ;-) I KNOW... I KNOW.. TMFI!!!! Thank God there was no internet back then... but if anyone still has any photos of "the crazy guy in the barrel" from their Mardi Gras vacations in the 80's, let me know since I lost all my old pics from the May 1995 spring flooding caused by our local politicians! As further evidence that alcohol heating works, have you ever tried to freeze a bottle of Stoli? Can't be done... at least not with conventional home freezers. ;-) Lemon Drop shots are my recommended use of this very chilled Stoli! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep Lenny, Unlike the fish I was talking about, simply adding alcohol to your bodily fluids will not mean you are immune to freezing. You would probably be aware of this if you had temperatures that ever got below the freezing point of water. Also, keep in mind that salt water has a lower freezing point temperature than freshwater does. Consider, too, that the fish is found at depths of a mile or more below the surface, which enough alcohol consumption may cause you to at least think of trying, and your chance of survival is even less. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep Yeah.... well us Saints FANS have an "antifreeze agent" in our bodily fluids right now too. It's called ALCOHOL!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY WAS GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? NOT DEM COLTS!!!! WHO DAT!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is quite striking. This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a color picture of the fish on page 3) at: http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46568	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

The plants are willow moss, anacharis and Brazilian pennywort. I removed half of the willow moss just in case. How long should I continue leaving the salt in the tank? IE with daily water changes of 2g I will be adding a little salt daily until I stop and just let the WCs clear the water. I am assuming I should not move the fish into their new tank now, right? When should I move them? They seem good today, no more death and no more fuzz, but I haven't spent the time with the mag glass yet... Thank you, Ray. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 8, 2010, at 1:52 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > I guess you never did find out what kind(s) of plants you have, since > I never heard any more from my suggestion that you may have Java > Moss (?) > -- a highly resistant species towards salt. Ray. </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46569	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Uptate on ram babies 6:30pm

Well, last night I saw twenty:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 8, 2010, at 2:04 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Glad to see that you have 12 fry that pulled through this disaster. > Since > you may have been tempted to try to keep them all anyway, at least > what you > have now should be the strongest of the bunch and you will not be > as crowded > with them. With care, you should be better able to raise what you have > left without their becoming too large of a bioload and without them > stunting > each other as a possible result. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46570	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your *allegation* (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth as being a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal line, the score happens and the play is then dead for anything else that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are talking about but I'll go and read some of the sports articles and recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of the Colts. If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks that can't tell what he's even saying... http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from an unbiased source http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't be a hater \\Steve//! LOL BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... way below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government thinking when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete pass. For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on the human body still stands. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46571	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants

Lenny, that link is not working for me - it says it does not exist. Anyone else having this issue or is it just my silly computer? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 6:58:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants See my blog article on "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank". A quarter way down the page has the info on sanitizing plants and a few links for even more info. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 6:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants Lenny mentioned sanitizing new plants. How is this done? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 12:13:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update Were all of these brand new plants or plants that you transferred from your other tanks? If they were new, they could also brought in some kind of pathogen. Many of us quarantine new plants, even after sanitizing them, just to make sure any fish pathogens die off without a host. I'm not sure how many doses of salt that you have done or what level of salinity you are up to but salt is NOT like other medicines where it loses its strength after a certain period and has to be re-dosed. Salt builds up and is only removed by doing PWC's with unsalted water. Most other meds can be removed by PWC's and chemical filtration (carbon, etc.) I kind of remember you doing an initial dose of 1 tablespoon per 5G and then doing a second dose of the same amount. Since a tablespoon is equal to 3 teaspoons, you would be up to 6 teaspoons per 5G or 12 teaspoons per 10G which would be a 0.12% salinity level. 0.1% is usually sufficient for many milder pathogens (and still mild enough for most plants) although sometimes, folks have to raise it up to 0.2% and then 0.3% or more for some hardy pathogens and these higher levels will usually become more detrimental to more plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update OK, just spent fifteen minutes examining as you were writing this, Ray. The babies look fantastic now, unbelievably, and are eating wildly. However, I see something white on one of the babies' heads. I can't be sure it's fungus, but I think so. That fish looks fine, but there does seem to be one tiny tuft on the head. I am leaning toward one more dose of salt and so be it I guess for the plants. Last night I tried to remove the plants and two fish got caught up in the plants and died, though John says they were dying already so not sure - there is lots of moss and tangled floating stuff. The plants cost me fifty dollars, but hopefully some will make it. (I don't know why the moss was so pricey but that alone was $30.) Anyway, I think I have to do one more round of sea salt, after a PWC in an hour. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, You may not need to add any more salt, depending upon how the > fry now look -- but as you say, you can't get near them with a > magnifying glass now to tell. A good indication that shows if they're > feeling better is if they are all eating readily. If no more have died > since last night, and the rest appear much livelier, it looks like > they'll pull through. > Still, a > physical check on any remaining fungus would be my final criteria, if > you can study them all using more time to do this. > > Not knowing what types of plants you've added, I would not want to > recommend an additional dose of salt, only to have some showing > negative effects from it, but aside from the plants, I would go ahead > with a final dose of anothef Tablespoon per 5 gallons if you're unsure > or are unable to check close enough for fungus. As you see, it all > hinges around whether some still have any fungus, so you might want to > make a special effort in checking for it. > Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46572	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did not have control of the ball before going out of bounds. As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either team, nor any player on both teams. Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David Letterman was one of the best. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your *allegation* (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth as being a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal line, the score happens and the play is then dead for anything else that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are talking about but I'll go and read some of the sports articles and recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of the Colts. If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks that can't tell what he's even saying... http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from an unbiased source http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't be a hater \\Steve//! LOL BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... way below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government thinking when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete pass. For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on the human body still stands. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants

Yahoo Group's are infamous for breaking links... some that aren't even very long. As you can see below your reply, it broke my link at "tank." and moved the "html" to the next line. This is why I include the note in my sig about going to my main blog and finding the article. Here's the link again and since I'm replying to you directly, it should not break the link... of course, you do use Yahoo for your email so who knows. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Laurie Alaimo [mailto:environmom95112@...] Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants Lenny, that link is not working for me - it says it does not exist. Anyone else having this issue or is it just my silly computer? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 6:58:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants See my blog article on "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank". A quarter way down the page has the info on sanitizing plants and a few links for even more info. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 6:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants Lenny mentioned sanitizing new plants. How is this done? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 12:13:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update Were all of these brand new plants or plants that you transferred from your other tanks? If they were new, they could also brought in some kind of pathogen. Many of us quarantine new plants, even after sanitizing them, just to make sure any fish pathogens die off without a host. I'm not sure how many doses of salt that you have done or what level of salinity you are up to but salt is NOT like other medicines where it loses its strength after a certain period and has to be re-dosed. Salt builds up and is only removed by doing PWC's with unsalted water. Most other meds can be removed by PWC's and chemical filtration (carbon, etc.) I kind of remember you doing an initial dose of 1 tablespoon per 5G and then doing a second dose of the same amount. Since a tablespoon is equal to 3 teaspoons, you would be up to 6 teaspoons per 5G or 12 teaspoons per 10G which would be a 0.12% salinity level. 0.1% is usually sufficient for many milder pathogens (and still mild enough for most plants) although sometimes, folks have to raise it up to 0.2% and then 0.3% or more for some hardy pathogens and these higher levels will usually become more detrimental to more plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update OK, just spent fifteen minutes examining as you were writing this, Ray. The babies look fantastic now, unbelievably, and are eating wildly. However, I see something white on one of the babies' heads. I can't be sure it's fungus, but I think so. That fish looks fine, but there does seem to be one tiny tuft on the head. I am leaning toward one more dose of salt and so be it I guess for the plants. Last night I tried to remove the plants and two fish got caught up in the plants and died, though John says they were dying already so not sure - there is lots of moss and tangled floating stuff. The plants cost me fifty dollars, but hopefully some will make it. (I don't know why the moss was so pricey but that alone was $30.) Anyway, I think I have to do one more round of sea salt, after a PWC in an hour. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, You may not need to add any more salt, depending upon how the > fry now look -- but as you say, you can't get near them with a > magnifying glass now to tell. A good indication that shows if they're > feeling better is if they are all eating readily. If no more have died > since last night, and the rest appear much livelier, it looks like > they'll pull through. > Still, a > physical check on any remaining fungus would be my final criteria, if > you can study them all using more time to do this. > > Not knowing what types of plants you've added, I would not want to > recommend an additional dose of salt, only to have some showing > negative effects from it, but aside from the plants, I would go ahead > with a final dose of anothef Tablespoon per 5 gallons if you're unsure > or are unable to check close enough for fungus. As you see, it all > hinges around whether some still have any fungus, so you might want to > make a special effort in checking for it. > Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's incomplete... but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but that isn't correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came back into the end zone until he was hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the ball hits the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play simply made a bad call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey.com recap, I think this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! WHO DAT!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did not have control of the ball before going out of bounds. As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either team, nor any player on both teams. Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David Letterman was one of the best. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your *allegation* (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth as being a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal line, the score happens and the play is then dead for anything else that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are talking about but I'll go and read some of the sports articles and recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of the Colts. If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks that can't tell what he's even saying... http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from an unbiased source http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't be a hater \\Steve//! LOL BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... way below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government thinking when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete pass. For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on the human body still stands. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46575	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants

Laurie, Since Lenny does not often use one of the link compression sites (TinyURL, bit.ly, etc.) to produce shorter links, his links often wrap with parts on two or more lines. Until this happens, you will need to copy the whole link and paste it into your browser's address bar. Depending on the browser/format of the link, not all of it may appear in the address bar, making it necessary to copy each line of the link separately and rejoining them in the address bar of your browser. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants Lenny, that link is not working for me - it says it does not exist. Anyone else having this issue or is it just my silly computer? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 6:58:00 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants See my blog article on "Planted Tank - So You Want A Planted Tank". A quarter way down the page has the info on sanitizing plants and a few links for even more info. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 6:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update - sanitizing new plants Lenny mentioned sanitizing new plants. How is this done? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 12:13:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update Were all of these brand new plants or plants that you transferred from your other tanks? If they were new, they could also brought in some kind of pathogen. Many of us quarantine new plants, even after sanitizing them, just to make sure any fish pathogens die off without a host. I'm not sure how many doses of salt that you have done or what level of salinity you are up to but salt is NOT like other medicines where it loses its strength after a certain period and has to be re-dosed. Salt builds up and is only removed by doing PWC's with unsalted water. Most other meds can be removed by PWC's and chemical filtration (carbon, etc.) I kind of remember you doing an initial dose of 1 tablespoon per 5G and then doing a second dose of the same amount. Since a tablespoon is equal to 3 teaspoons, you would be up to 6 teaspoons per 5G or 12 teaspoons per 10G which would be a 0.12% salinity level. 0.1% is usually sufficient for many milder pathogens (and still mild enough for most plants) although sometimes, folks have to raise it up to 0.2% and then 0.3% or more for some hardy pathogens and these higher levels will usually become more detrimental to more plants. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry update OK, just spent fifteen minutes examining as you were writing this, Ray. The babies look fantastic now, unbelievably, and are eating wildly. However, I see something white on one of the babies' heads. I can't be sure it's fungus, but I think so. That fish looks fine, but there does seem to be one tiny tuft on the head. I am leaning toward one more dose of salt and so be it I guess for the plants. Last night I tried to remove the plants and two fish got caught up in the plants and died, though John says they were dying already so not sure - there is lots of moss and tangled floating stuff. The plants cost me fifty dollars, but hopefully some will make it. (I don't know why the moss was so pricey but that alone was $30.) Anyway, I think I have to do one more round of sea salt, after a PWC in an hour. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 7, 2010, at 1:58 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, You may not need to add any more salt, depending upon how the > fry now look -- but as you say, you can't get near them with a > magnifying glass now to tell. A good indication that shows if they're > feeling better is if they are all eating readily. If no more have died > since last night, and the rest appear much livelier, it looks like > they'll pull through. > Still, a > physical check on any remaining fungus would be my final criteria, if > you can study them all using more time to do this. > > Not knowing what types of plants you've added, I would not want to > recommend an additional dose of salt, only to have some showing > negative effects from it, but aside from the plants, I would go ahead > with a final dose of anothef Tablespoon per 5 gallons if you're unsure > or are unable to check close enough for fungus. As you see, it all > hinges around whether some still have any fungus, so you might want to > make a special effort in checking for it. > Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46576	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

Lenny, Both videos show that his hands left the bal while going over the plane. If that is a score, then merely the act of putting the ball over the plane would be considered a score, which it is not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's incomplete... but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but that isn't correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came back into the end zone until he was hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the ball hits the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play simply made a bad call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey.com recap, I think this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! WHO DAT!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did not have control of the ball before going out of bounds. As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either team, nor any player on both teams. Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David Letterman was one of the best. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your *allegation* (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth as being a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal line, the score happens and the play is then dead for anything else that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are talking about but I'll go and read some of the sports articles and recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of the Colts. If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks that can't tell what he's even saying... http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from an unbiased source http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't be a hater \\Steve//! LOL BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... way below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government thinking when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete pass. For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on the human body still stands. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46577	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Lainey, They sound good but just to make sure, check them over for any fungus. I doubt that they would have any, from your description of their behavior, but it's always good to be sure. If they check out good, you can start removing the salt just by making your regular water changes and not adding any more salt in. Over the course of a week, most of it will be gone and what's left will be further reduced/removed via subsequent PWC's. No, don't change the fry over to the 20 gallon tank yet. No need to rush this process anyway since you only have 20 of them. BTW, is this a 20 Long or 20 HIGH, and is this a new or used tank that John gave you? If it's a used tank, and unless he used it for marine fish, it's best to chlorine bleach it first before use, rinsing it out thoroughly before setting it up. I use up to a cup of 5% bleach for 20 gallons and let it stand overnight, but even 1/2 to 3/4 cup will usually suffice since the duration of exposure is extended. You can move the fry after about a week, at which time if you disinfect the 20 gallon now, it will have any of its residue bleach dissipate long before then after you rinse it well. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46578	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

OK... look at the 12 second YouTube and right near the end of the vid, right before the Colts player kicks the ball out of his hands, he has full control of the ball, grasped firmly between his two hands and his arms are extended over the goal line and the ball is well over the goal line, even if only for a split second. Apparently, this is what some of the commentators (in the longer vid) are talking about with the "second act" when he does have possession for just a moment as he reaches it over the plane of the goal line, even for just a split second before the Colts player's leg then knocks it out. No matter what, the initial ruling on the field was overruled and the only way this can be done is with incontrovertible evidence by the review booth.... which apparently there was... unless the Zebras were closeted WHO DATS!!! ;-) BTW... how are them Redskins looking for next year? Or have y'all voted to rename them the "North American Indigenous People Skins" yet? :-P Or, are you a Patriots fan since you mentioned being a Celtics fan? I did find this forum post/article about the call. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/07/league-defends-decision-on-t wo-point-play/?related=1 The ninth paragraph says this... "Again, that's not what the rule says. It says that if the player is going to the ground in the act of catching a pass, he must maintain control after he touches the ground. Not during, but after. In other words, he must keep the ball until he comes to rest.", with the word "after" in italics but since Lance Moore was on the ground, this was certainly "after he touches the ground" but this forum poster insists that "he must keep the ball until he comes to rest" but the rule doesn't say that... only that "he must maintain control after he touches the ground", leaning on the concept that the ground can't cause a fumble and "touching the ground" would be with knee, thigh, elbow, shoulder or full body. Hands and feet are allowed to touch the ground without the play being dead. All said, even if the play had not stood, the Saints would still have been up by five points and the Colts still would have needed a touchdown... which then never got, so the Saints would have won it 29-17. Now, if the Saints only won by one or two points, then that two-point conversion might be more controversial today but I'm not finding a lot of Indy coaches or players laying any kind of blame on that call. I'm gonna convert you to a Who Dat yet. ;-) WHO DAT!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, Both videos show that his hands left the bal while going over the plane. If that is a score, then merely the act of putting the ball over the plane would be considered a score, which it is not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's incomplete... but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but that isn't correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came back into the end zone until he was hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the ball hits the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play simply made a bad call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey.com recap, I think this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! WHO DAT!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did not have control of the ball before going out of bounds. As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either team, nor any player on both teams. Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David Letterman was one of the best. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your *allegation* (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth as being a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal line, the score happens and the play is then dead for anything else that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are talking about but I'll go and read some of the sports articles and recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of the Colts. If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks that can't tell what he's even saying... http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from an unbiased source http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't be a hater \\Steve//! LOL BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... way below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government thinking when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete pass. For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on the human body still stands. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46579	From: harry perry	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny

Did anyone go to work in N.O. today?. Harry --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 12:48 PM   Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's incomplete.. . but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but that isn't correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=BlHyGAw4ffY A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came back into the end zone until he was hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the ball hits the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play simply made a bad call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey. com recap, I think this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... http://www.northjer sey.com/sports/ 83782442_ Super_Bowl_ recap.html "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! WHO DAT!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did not have control of the ball before going out of bounds. As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either team, nor any player on both teams. Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David Letterman was one of the best. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your *allegation* (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth as being a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal line, the score happens and the play is then dead for anything else that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are talking about but I'll go and read some of the sports articles and recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of the Colts. If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a- co-hol" http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks that can't tell what he's even saying... http://www.azlyrics .com/lyrics/ jamiefoxx/ blameitonthealco hol.html) Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" http://www.whodatna tion.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from an unbiased source http://www.northjer sey.com/sports/ 83782442_ Super_Bowl_ recap.html and they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't be a hater \\Steve//! LOL BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... way below expectations. .. and what the heck was the Federal government thinking when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news coverage of the current administration' s follies... or rather lack thereof. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete pass. For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on the human body still stands. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML> ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><( (((:>.74/ `7.88.74/ `7.8><((( (:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><(( ((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/ `7.88.74/ `7.8<:((( (><8.74/` 7.8. , .74/`7..<:(( ((><74/`7. 88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46580	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

The plants came from Petco, so many did not have labels, but some are Amazon Swords, crypts, and java ferns. The others I am not sure of. I bought SeaChem Flourite. I removed my aquarium gravel and replaced with flourite. My question now is, is this tanks now going to have to cycle again? I have a fluval which has been running for years on this tank. This should keep the bacteria numbers OK, right? As I said, in this 20 gallon tank there are only 2 Cardinals and a glass cat. The light is a corallife power compact. The tank is not a show tank, which is longer and narrower I think. This is the standard 20. Another thing. I tested my water from the tap and it is very hard. I have peat moss for outdoor gardening. Can I use that to soften the water? I have all the supplies to make my own CO2 bottle. How can I test the CO2 level in the tank? Thanks to everyone on this list who is so free with their knowledge! You guys are awesome! ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 5:43:46 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks You mention having some plants now; if they have been growing fine all along nothing more may be necessary, although depending upon the type of plants, you may reqquire additional nutrient fertilization. CO2 is not necessary for the vast majority of plants, nor is high light especially without the added CO2. Flourite is an enriched substrate gravel that will slowly over time release nutrients when in contact with plant roots. It is a comprehensive nutrient base. Unlike laterite which is iron clay and not recommended on its own nor with gravel. Sufficient iron can be added (if needed for your plants) through liquid comprehensive fertilizers and/or substrate fertilizers. Various plants have different needs, so I can advise further when I know the types (species) of plants. I have maintained successful planted aquaria for 20 years with regular dark gravel and liquid fertilzer once or twice a week. What type of bulb do you have (Daylight, Warm White, Cool White...) and what wattage? And what species of plants? Your answers to these questions will help. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "environmom95112" <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > Hi there, > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted tank to be successful. > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget! > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46581	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry update

Ray - I can't see any fungus today. The 20 is long and it is new because John needs his other 20 after all... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 8, 2010, at 2:02 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, They sound good but just to make sure, check them over for any > fungus. I doubt that they would have any, from your description of > their > behavior, but it's always good to be sure. If they check out good, > you can start > removing the salt just by making your regular water changes and not > adding > any more salt in. Over the course of a week, most of it will be > gone and > what's left will be further reduced/removed via subsequent PWC's. > > No, don't change the fry over to the 20 gallon tank yet. No need to > rush > this process anyway since you only have 20 of them. BTW, is this a > 20 Long > or 20 HIGH, and is this a new or used tank that John gave you? If > it's a > used tank, and unless he used it for marine fish, it's best to > chlorine bleach > it first before use, rinsing it out thoroughly before setting it > up. I use > up to a cup of 5% bleach for 20 gallons and let it stand overnight, > but even > 1/2 to 3/4 cup will usually suffice since the duration of exposure is > extended. > > You can move the fry after about a week, at which time if you > disinfect the > 20 gallon now, it will have any of its residue bleach dissipate > long before > then after you rinse it well. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46582	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

As I mentioned, the only team I am a fan of is the Boston Celtics. If it was the Patriots in the super bowl, I might show prejudice toward them, but I am no fan. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee OK... look at the 12 second YouTube and right near the end of the vid, right before the Colts player kicks the ball out of his hands, he has full control of the ball, grasped firmly between his two hands and his arms are extended over the goal line and the ball is well over the goal line, even if only for a split second. Apparently, this is what some of the commentators (in the longer vid) are talking about with the "second act" when he does have possession for just a moment as he reaches it over the plane of the goal line, even for just a split second before the Colts player's leg then knocks it out. No matter what, the initial ruling on the field was overruled and the only way this can be done is with incontrovertible evidence by the review booth.... which apparently there was... unless the Zebras were closeted WHO DATS!!! ;-) BTW... how are them Redskins looking for next year? Or have y'all voted to rename them the "North American Indigenous People Skins" yet? :-P Or, are you a Patriots fan since you mentioned being a Celtics fan? I did find this forum post/article about the call. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/07/league-defends-decision-on-t wo-point-play/?related=1 The ninth paragraph says this... "Again, that's not what the rule says. It says that if the player is going to the ground in the act of catching a pass, he must maintain control after he touches the ground. Not during, but after. In other words, he must keep the ball until he comes to rest.", with the word "after" in italics but since Lance Moore was on the ground, this was certainly "after he touches the ground" but this forum poster insists that "he must keep the ball until he comes to rest" but the rule doesn't say that... only that "he must maintain control after he touches the ground", leaning on the concept that the ground can't cause a fumble and "touching the ground" would be with knee, thigh, elbow, shoulder or full body. Hands and feet are allowed to touch the ground without the play being dead. All said, even if the play had not stood, the Saints would still have been up by five points and the Colts still would have needed a touchdown... which then never got, so the Saints would have won it 29-17. Now, if the Saints only won by one or two points, then that two-point conversion might be more controversial today but I'm not finding a lot of Indy coaches or players laying any kind of blame on that call. I'm gonna convert you to a Who Dat yet. ;-) WHO DAT!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, Both videos show that his hands left the bal while going over the plane. If that is a score, then merely the act of putting the ball over the plane would be considered a score, which it is not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's incomplete... but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but that isn't correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came back into the end zone until he was hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the ball hits the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play simply made a bad call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey.com recap, I think this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! WHO DAT!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did not have control of the ball before going out of bounds. As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either team, nor any player on both teams. Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David Letterman was one of the best. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your *allegation* (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth as being a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal line, the score happens and the play is then dead for anything else that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are talking about but I'll go and read some of the sports articles and recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of the Colts. If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks that can't tell what he's even saying... http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from an unbiased source http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't be a hater \\Steve//! LOL BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... way below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government thinking when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete pass. For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on the human body still stands. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46583	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny

LOL... probably 50% or so. I've worked a little today but haven't had many calls or emails from customers. I just saw Sheppard Smith was on Fox News Channel and he was down on Bourbon Street and there were a LOT of people still down there... nothing like last night which was probably more crowded than any Mardi Gras that I've seen. Mostly it was just folks (yes, probably 100,000 or so) celebrating but you know there always has to be the slimy criminal type to try and ruin a good thing. I heard on the news today that there was a stabbing and a couple of people shot in the leg down in the F.Q. last night, but no wholesale rioting like some other cities when they win national sports championships. New Orleanians are pretty good partiers without destroying stuff, turning over cars, lighting dumpsters on fires, etc... probably from decades of having Mardi Gras. The other thing could be those criminal incidents could be isolated incidents involving people who had issues with each other prior to being in the crowds... or in response to another criminal act... like someone trying to pick-pocket or purse snatch or a drug deal gone bad. In my 16 years as a P.I. down here, EVERY case I handled involving tourist-victims of crime in the French Quarter were folks who were doing thing they shouldn't have been doing in the first place. My most memorable case was a business man down here for a Super Bowl, of all things, and he sued his hotel when he got robbed and beat up on their property (his room)... but failed to mention that it was because the two *entertainers* he *hired* rolled him after he fell asleep and their *manager* came in and finished the beat-down job when he woke up and resisted their "rolling*. What's that Beretta song? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SivUT1x7j18 (There's another one for Lainey to hum all day.. lol) You know, I liked that TV show, probably in re-runs when I was younger but I never realized that was Sammy Davis, Jr., who sang the song until I just now Googled it to find the YouTube. WHO DAT!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny Did anyone go to work in N.O. today?. Harry --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 12:48 PM Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's incomplete.. . but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but that isn't correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came back into the end zone until he was hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the ball hits the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play simply made a bad call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey. com recap, I think this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... http://www.northjer sey.com/sports/ 83782442_ Super_Bowl_ recap.html "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! WHO DAT!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did not have control of the ball before going out of bounds. As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either team, nor any player on both teams. Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David Letterman was one of the best. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46584	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

Be careful as big-box pet stores will often sell bog plants as aquatic plants. One that I often see in my local PetsMart is called Mondo Grass and it's not a true aquatic plant and usually dies after a few weeks to a month or so. BEFORE buying in the future, either plants or fish, check out the plants/fish, look for common names and scientific names (ask a manager if they aren't labeled) and then follow the links, in my Planted Tank article, to aquatic plant profile sites and read up on their care, lighting, etc. or to one of the fish profile sites I have listed on that blog article. If you can give us the measurements, Length x Width x Height, we can confirm the volume for you. Or you can do the math yourself... L x W x H = ____ divided by 231 = ____ U. S. Gallons. Inside measurements will give you more precise volume. Once you know for certain that it's a 20G, then the measurements will confirm if it's a tall tank or not. What are your numbers for your tap water test results? Or better yet, do the 48 hour baseline test that I explain on my blog article, "Find Your Tap / Source Water Baseline", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml (once again, if Yahoo breaks the link, go to the link in my sig and the title of the article will be in the list (Labels) on the right side). Some plants do fine with hard water, some others do not. It's better for you to buy fish and plants that like your water rather than getting into the work of dealing with water chemistry issues. I have higher pH, moderately hard water and I have lots of plants that do just fine or even thrive in my water. As to your answer about peat, yes, you can use it and it's best to make a batch of peat tea in a large garbage can and then slowly start adding some of the peat tea water to your tank when you do PWC's by mixing a certain percentage with your tap water with each PWC. Start with 9 parts tap, 1 part peat tea, then work it up until your tank is measuring where you want it and then you'll know the correct mixture on future mixes. You'll have to constantly be testing before and after each PWC, which isn't a bad thing when starting out anyhow, then constantly run chemical filtration (carbon or Purigen or other chemical media) or learn to like the tea colored water which the tannins in peat (or driftwood) will release into the water... which is also fine and many folks keep these natural "Black Water Biotope" tanks. Now you know why I suggest going with fish and plants that like your water. ;-) Here's an article about CO2 and testing it... and it's actually one of the articles on Chuck's Planted Tank pages which I have a link to on my Planted Tank blog. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks The plants came from Petco, so many did not have labels, but some are Amazon Swords, crypts, and java ferns. The others I am not sure of. I bought SeaChem Flourite. I removed my aquarium gravel and replaced with flourite. My question now is, is this tanks now going to have to cycle again? I have a fluval which has been running for years on this tank. This should keep the bacteria numbers OK, right? As I said, in this 20 gallon tank there are only 2 Cardinals and a glass cat. The light is a corallife power compact. The tank is not a show tank, which is longer and narrower I think. This is the standard 20. Another thing. I tested my water from the tap and it is very hard. I have peat moss for outdoor gardening. Can I use that to soften the water? I have all the supplies to make my own CO2 bottle. How can I test the CO2 level in the tank? Thanks to everyone on this list who is so free with their knowledge! You guys are awesome! ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 5:43:46 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks You mention having some plants now; if they have been growing fine all along nothing more may be necessary, although depending upon the type of plants, you may reqquire additional nutrient fertilization. CO2 is not necessary for the vast majority of plants, nor is high light especially without the added CO2. Flourite is an enriched substrate gravel that will slowly over time release nutrients when in contact with plant roots. It is a comprehensive nutrient base. Unlike laterite which is iron clay and not recommended on its own nor with gravel. Sufficient iron can be added (if needed for your plants) through liquid comprehensive fertilizers and/or substrate fertilizers. Various plants have different needs, so I can advise further when I know the types (species) of plants. I have maintained successful planted aquaria for 20 years with regular dark gravel and liquid fertilzer once or twice a week. What type of bulb do you have (Daylight, Warm White, Cool White...) and what wattage? And what species of plants? Your answers to these questions will help. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "environmom95112" <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > Hi there, > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted tank to be successful. > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget! > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46585	From: Mark Hough	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

Hey now! Watch what you say about my Dreadskins... LOL. By the way, it was only 2 points not a factor in the game... But what I would like to know....??? Is when the Colts were trying to score and the Offensive Wide Receiver clearly held, but the N.O. back intercepted the ball anyway, I saw the official gesture that it was an interception and pointed in the direction to be Saints ball. But after they picked up the falg and called the Offensive interference penalty it only resulted in a loss of yards and replay the down. Shouldn't that have been Saints ball? Again, it's a moot point because it didn't matter, but I'm just curious as to why it wasn't a turnover???? Mark - Zone 7 On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > OK... look at the 12 second YouTube and right near the end of the vid, > right > before the Colts player kicks the ball out of his hands, he has full > control > of the ball, grasped firmly between his two hands and his arms are extended > over the goal line and the ball is well over the goal line, even if only > for > a split second. Apparently, this is what some of the commentators (in the > longer vid) are talking about with the "second act" when he does have > possession for just a moment as he reaches it over the plane of the goal > line, even for just a split second before the Colts player's leg then > knocks > it out. > > No matter what, the initial ruling on the field was overruled and the only > way this can be done is with incontrovertible evidence by the review > booth.... which apparently there was... unless the Zebras were closeted WHO > DATS!!! ;-) > > BTW... how are them Redskins looking for next year? Or have y'all voted to > rename them the "North American Indigenous People Skins" yet? :-P Or, are > you a Patriots fan since you mentioned being a Celtics fan? > > I did find this forum post/article about the call. > > http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/07/league-defends-decision-on-t > wo-point-play/?related=1 > > The ninth paragraph says this... > > "Again, that's not what the rule says. It says that if the player is going > to the ground in the act of catching a pass, he must maintain control after > he touches the ground. Not during, but after. In other words, he must keep > the ball until he comes to rest.", with the word "after" in italics but > since Lance Moore was on the ground, this was certainly "after he touches > the ground" but this forum poster insists that "he must keep the ball until > he comes to rest" but the rule doesn't say that... only that "he must > maintain control after he touches the ground", leaning on the concept that > the ground can't cause a fumble and "touching the ground" would be with > knee, thigh, elbow, shoulder or full body. Hands and feet are allowed to > touch the ground without the play being dead. > > All said, even if the play had not stood, the Saints would still have been > up by five points and the Colts still would have needed a touchdown... > which > then never got, so the Saints would have won it 29-17. Now, if the Saints > only won by one or two points, then that two-point conversion might be more > controversial today but I'm not finding a lot of Indy coaches or players > laying any kind of blame on that call. > > I'm gonna convert you to a Who Dat yet. ;-) > > > WHO DAT!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, > > Both videos show that his hands left the bal while going over the plane. If > that is a score, then merely the act of putting the ball over the plane > would be considered a score, which it is not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to > crossing > the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain control of the > ball and if they do not have control as they cross the plane of the > out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's incomplete... but Lance > Moore > had control of the ball as the ball crossed the plane of the goal line and > only lost the ball as he was hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips > were already down inside the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball > back into the end zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as > soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the > goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since > the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. > Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second mark, > one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but that isn't > correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) > > This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY > > A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks only > two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D > > Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal > line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the ball > crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player maintains > control of the ball after that or even loses the ball completely once the > plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING two-point conversion catch, he > did have control of the ball as it came back into the end zone until he was > hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts > player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the ball > hits > the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play simply made a bad > call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) > > In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey.com recap, I think this > paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... > http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html > > "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the Colts > to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." > > DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! > > WHO DAT!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball > only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the > opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did > not > have control of the ball before going out of bounds. > > As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an > impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either > team, > nor any player on both teams. > > Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David > Letterman was one of the best. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your *allegation* > (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but was > challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth as being > a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball all > the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they would on > other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal line, the > score happens and the play is then dead for anything else that might > happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember the play you > are > talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of our scores. We only > had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat > which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 > yard pass to Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an > out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point conversion > mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are talking about but > I'll go and read some of the sports articles and recaps to make sure I > didn't miss anything. > > Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB > record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception and > run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the final nail > in > the coffin of the Colts. > > If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks that > can't tell what he's even saying... > http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) > > Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" > http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from an > unbiased source > http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and they > don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't be a hater > \\Steve//! LOL > > BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... way > below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government thinking > when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and it > was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news > coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown > pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From > the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the > ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete > pass. > > For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints > won, > let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I > watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were > not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter > to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I > can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question > when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport > I > give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my > team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. > > And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on > the > human body still stands. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, > the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in > the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46586	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

Mark, It is not the points that matter to the players. Had that play been called the other way, it could have been enough for the Colts to get on top of the Saints, with a different outcome to the game. The psychological impact could have made the difference. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Hey now! Watch what you say about my Dreadskins... LOL. By the way, it was only 2 points not a factor in the game... But what I would like to know....??? Is when the Colts were trying to score and the Offensive Wide Receiver clearly held, but the N.O. back intercepted the ball anyway, I saw the official gesture that it was an interception and pointed in the direction to be Saints ball. But after they picked up the falg and called the Offensive interference penalty it only resulted in a loss of yards and replay the down. Shouldn't that have been Saints ball? Again, it's a moot point because it didn't matter, but I'm just curious as to why it wasn't a turnover???? Mark - Zone 7 On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > OK... look at the 12 second YouTube and right near the end of the vid, > right > before the Colts player kicks the ball out of his hands, he has full > control > of the ball, grasped firmly between his two hands and his arms are extended > over the goal line and the ball is well over the goal line, even if only > for > a split second. Apparently, this is what some of the commentators (in the > longer vid) are talking about with the "second act" when he does have > possession for just a moment as he reaches it over the plane of the goal > line, even for just a split second before the Colts player's leg then > knocks > it out. > > No matter what, the initial ruling on the field was overruled and the only > way this can be done is with incontrovertible evidence by the review > booth.... which apparently there was... unless the Zebras were closeted WHO > DATS!!! ;-) > > BTW... how are them Redskins looking for next year? Or have y'all voted to > rename them the "North American Indigenous People Skins" yet? :-P Or, are > you a Patriots fan since you mentioned being a Celtics fan? > > I did find this forum post/article about the call. > > http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/07/league-defends-decision-on-t > wo-point-play/?related=1 > > The ninth paragraph says this... > > "Again, that's not what the rule says. It says that if the player is going > to the ground in the act of catching a pass, he must maintain control after > he touches the ground. Not during, but after. In other words, he must keep > the ball until he comes to rest.", with the word "after" in italics but > since Lance Moore was on the ground, this was certainly "after he touches > the ground" but this forum poster insists that "he must keep the ball until > he comes to rest" but the rule doesn't say that... only that "he must > maintain control after he touches the ground", leaning on the concept that > the ground can't cause a fumble and "touching the ground" would be with > knee, thigh, elbow, shoulder or full body. Hands and feet are allowed to > touch the ground without the play being dead. > > All said, even if the play had not stood, the Saints would still have been > up by five points and the Colts still would have needed a touchdown... > which > then never got, so the Saints would have won it 29-17. Now, if the Saints > only won by one or two points, then that two-point conversion might be more > controversial today but I'm not finding a lot of Indy coaches or players > laying any kind of blame on that call. > > I'm gonna convert you to a Who Dat yet. ;-) > > > WHO DAT!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, > > Both videos show that his hands left the bal while going over the plane. If > that is a score, then merely the act of putting the ball over the plane > would be considered a score, which it is not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to > crossing > the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain control of the > ball and if they do not have control as they cross the plane of the > out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's incomplete... but Lance > Moore > had control of the ball as the ball crossed the plane of the goal line and > only lost the ball as he was hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips > were already down inside the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball > back into the end zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as > soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the > goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since > the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. > Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second mark, > one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but that isn't > correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) > > This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY > > A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks only > two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D > > Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal > line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the ball > crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player maintains > control of the ball after that or even loses the ball completely once the > plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING two-point conversion catch, he > did have control of the ball as it came back into the end zone until he was > hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts > player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the ball > hits > the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play simply made a bad > call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) > > In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey.com recap, I think this > paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... > http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html > > "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the Colts > to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." > > DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! > > WHO DAT!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball > only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the > opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did > not > have control of the ball before going out of bounds. > > As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an > impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either > team, > nor any player on both teams. > > Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David > Letterman was one of the best. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your *allegation* > (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but was > challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth as being > a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball all > the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they would on > other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal line, the > score happens and the play is then dead for anything else that might > happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember the play you > are > talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of our scores. We only > had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat > which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 > yard pass to Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an > out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point conversion > mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are talking about but > I'll go and read some of the sports articles and recaps to make sure I > didn't miss anything. > > Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB > record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception and > run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the final nail > in > the coffin of the Colts. > > If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks that > can't tell what he's even saying... > http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) > > Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" > http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from an > unbiased source > http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and they > don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't be a hater > \\Steve//! LOL > > BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... way > below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government thinking > when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and it > was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news > coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that touchdown > pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From > the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of the > ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an incomplete > pass. > > For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the Saints > won, > let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is the only game I > watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, which I thought were > not up to snuff this year. I did not have a favored team. It did not matter > to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season so I > can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question > when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport > I > give more than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my > team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. > > And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities on > the > human body still stands. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish > You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, > the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early down in > the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46587	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

You: "What kind of plant is this?" Petco Employee: "Green." You: "What kind of light does this plant require?" Petco Employee: "On." \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks The plants came from Petco, so many did not have labels, but some are Amazon Swords, crypts, and java ferns. The others I am not sure of. I bought SeaChem Flourite. I removed my aquarium gravel and replaced with flourite. My question now is, is this tanks now going to have to cycle again? I have a fluval which has been running for years on this tank. This should keep the bacteria numbers OK, right? As I said, in this 20 gallon tank there are only 2 Cardinals and a glass cat. The light is a corallife power compact. The tank is not a show tank, which is longer and narrower I think. This is the standard 20. Another thing. I tested my water from the tap and it is very hard. I have peat moss for outdoor gardening. Can I use that to soften the water? I have all the supplies to make my own CO2 bottle. How can I test the CO2 level in the tank? Thanks to everyone on this list who is so free with their knowledge! You guys are awesome! ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 5:43:46 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks You mention having some plants now; if they have been growing fine all along nothing more may be necessary, although depending upon the type of plants, you may reqquire additional nutrient fertilization. CO2 is not necessary for the vast majority of plants, nor is high light especially without the added CO2. Flourite is an enriched substrate gravel that will slowly over time release nutrients when in contact with plant roots. It is a comprehensive nutrient base. Unlike laterite which is iron clay and not recommended on its own nor with gravel. Sufficient iron can be added (if needed for your plants) through liquid comprehensive fertilizers and/or substrate fertilizers. Various plants have different needs, so I can advise further when I know the types (species) of plants. I have maintained successful planted aquaria for 20 years with regular dark gravel and liquid fertilzer once or twice a week. What type of bulb do you have (Daylight, Warm White, Cool White...) and what wattage? And what species of plants? Your answers to these questions will help. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "environmom95112" <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > Hi there, > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted tank to be successful. > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46588	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

Alcohol lowers your body temperature and would cause you to get hypothermia even faster than a sober person would ;) Keep that in mind if you ever venture up to Alaska Lenny ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You must not have been down here for Mardi Gras in one of the few years > where we actually had freezing temperatures. We still have the same number > of almost nude folks and flashing girls all around the French Quarter and > other mostly adult areas of Mardi Gras, relying solely on alcohol heating! > At least that's what I relied on while roaming the streets in my barrel... > and nothing else on under the barrel! LOL Lots of shocked faces by the > tourists who were brave enough to kneel down and look through the 25 cents > peep hole... and I usually made enough money for my next drink! LOL ;-) I > KNOW... I KNOW.. TMFI!!!! > > Thank God there was no internet back then... but if anyone still has any > photos of "the crazy guy in the barrel" from their Mardi Gras vacations in > the 80's, let me know since I lost all my old pics from the May 1995 > spring > flooding caused by our local politicians! > > As further evidence that alcohol heating works, have you ever tried to > freeze a bottle of Stoli? Can't be done... at least not with conventional > home freezers. ;-) Lemon Drop shots are my recommended use of this very > chilled Stoli! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > Lenny, > > Unlike the fish I was talking about, simply adding alcohol to your bodily > fluids will not mean you are immune to freezing. You would probably be > aware > of this if you had temperatures that ever got below the freezing point of > water. Also, keep in mind that salt water has a lower freezing point > temperature than freshwater does. Consider, too, that the fish is found at > depths of a mile or more below the surface, which enough alcohol > consumption > may cause you to at least think of trying, and your chance of survival is > even less. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > Yeah.... well us Saints FANS have an "antifreeze agent" in our bodily > fluids > right now too. It's called ALCOHOL!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY WAS GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? NOT DEM COLTS!!!! > > WHO DAT!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly described > fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, this is a > fish > you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into shortly, I am only > bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is quite striking. > > This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in > their > bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in waters of > Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as you can see, > even > if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult to mimic the > conditions > they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. Beside the color, there is > another > interesting feature of the fish, a single barbell projecting straight out > from its lower jaw. > > If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a color > picture of the fish on page 3) at: > http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf > <http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf> > > http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu <http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu> > > Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New > Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish Genus > Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46589	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

Petco must train a lot of stores ;) LOL. How about this one: You: "Does it need special gravel?" Petco Employee: "Yes, this really expensive kind we have over here... And while you're at it you should get these fertilizers too" ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > You: "What kind of plant is this?" > > Petco Employee: "Green." > > You: "What kind of light does this plant require?" > > Petco Employee: "On." > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks > > The plants came from Petco, so many did not have labels, but some are > Amazon > Swords, crypts, and java ferns. The others I am not sure of. > > I bought SeaChem Flourite. I removed my aquarium gravel and replaced with > flourite. My question now is, is this tanks now going to have to cycle > again? I have a fluval which has been running for years on this tank. This > should keep the bacteria numbers OK, right? As I said, in this 20 gallon > tank there are only 2 Cardinals and a glass cat. > > The light is a corallife power compact. The tank is not a show tank, which > is longer and narrower I think. This is the standard 20. > > Another thing. I tested my water from the tap and it is very hard. I have > peat moss for outdoor gardening. Can I use that to soften the water? > > I have all the supplies to make my own CO2 bottle. How can I test the CO2 > level in the tank? > > Thanks to everyone on this list who is so free with their knowledge! You > guys are awesome! > > ~ Laurie > > ________________________________ > From: amphibian_ca <bhosking@... <mailto:bhosking%40shaw.ca>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 5:43:46 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks > > You mention having some plants now; if they have been growing fine all > along > nothing more may be necessary, although depending upon the type of plants, > you may reqquire additional nutrient fertilization. CO2 is not necessary > for the vast majority of plants, nor is high light especially without the > added CO2. > > Flourite is an enriched substrate gravel that will slowly over time > release > nutrients when in contact with plant roots. It is a comprehensive nutrient > base. Unlike laterite which is iron clay and not recommended on its > own nor > with gravel. Sufficient iron can be added (if needed for your plants) > through liquid comprehensive fertilizers and/or substrate fertilizers. > Various plants have different needs, so I can advise further when I > know the > types (species) of plants. I have maintained successful planted > aquaria for > 20 years with regular dark gravel and liquid fertilzer once or twice a > week. > > What type of bulb do you have (Daylight, Warm White, Cool White...) > and what > wattage? And what species of plants? Your answers to these questions will > help. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "environmom95112" > <environmom95112@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi there, > > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. > > > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my > set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It has > about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few plants. > Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. > > > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them to > thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but it was > a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 cardinals and a > glass cat. > > > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and > flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do > well. > I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not say to add > gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not spend > my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted tank to be > successful. > > > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? I > paid 5 dollars a piece! > > > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to renew my > hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget! > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46590	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny

Lenny, A couple of things you might want to look at from the reputable Miami Herald: Super Bowl was great - and so was the game http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/dave-barry/story/1468541.html http://tinyurl.com/yhkhbgn POST-SUPER-BOWL MOMENT http://blogs.herald.com/dave_barrys_blog/2010/02/postsuperbowl-moment.html http://tinyurl.com/ycmyna4 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny LOL... probably 50% or so. I've worked a little today but haven't had many calls or emails from customers. I just saw Sheppard Smith was on Fox News Channel and he was down on Bourbon Street and there were a LOT of people still down there... nothing like last night which was probably more crowded than any Mardi Gras that I've seen. Mostly it was just folks (yes, probably 100,000 or so) celebrating but you know there always has to be the slimy criminal type to try and ruin a good thing. I heard on the news today that there was a stabbing and a couple of people shot in the leg down in the F.Q. last night, but no wholesale rioting like some other cities when they win national sports championships. New Orleanians are pretty good partiers without destroying stuff, turning over cars, lighting dumpsters on fires, etc... probably from decades of having Mardi Gras. The other thing could be those criminal incidents could be isolated incidents involving people who had issues with each other prior to being in the crowds... or in response to another criminal act... like someone trying to pick-pocket or purse snatch or a drug deal gone bad. In my 16 years as a P.I. down here, EVERY case I handled involving tourist-victims of crime in the French Quarter were folks who were doing thing they shouldn't have been doing in the first place. My most memorable case was a business man down here for a Super Bowl, of all things, and he sued his hotel when he got robbed and beat up on their property (his room)... but failed to mention that it was because the two *entertainers* he *hired* rolled him after he fell asleep and their *manager* came in and finished the beat-down job when he woke up and resisted their "rolling*. What's that Beretta song? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SivUT1x7j18 (There's another one for Lainey to hum all day.. lol) You know, I liked that TV show, probably in re-runs when I was younger but I never realized that was Sammy Davis, Jr., who sang the song until I just now Googled it to find the YouTube. WHO DAT!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny Did anyone go to work in N.O. today?. Harry --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 12:48 PM Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's incomplete.. . but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but that isn't correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came back into the end zone until he was hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the ball hits the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play simply made a bad call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey. com recap, I think this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... http://www.northjer sey.com/sports/ 83782442_ Super_Bowl_ recap.html "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! WHO DAT!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when the player did not have control of the ball before going out of bounds. As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor either team, nor any player on both teams. Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David Letterman was one of the best. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46591	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Alcohol WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

Amber, Don't forget that alcohol is also a preservative. Many fish specimens are preserved in alcohol. If you are a reader of fish descriptions, you will note they usually refer to the coloration in alcohol, since most of the authors have never seen the fish live. If they do see the fish live, that color description will also be included. A good example of the preservative value of alcohol in humans can be found here: http://www.altmanphoto.com/keith_richards_portrait.jpg (1969) http://tinyurl.com/2m87cc http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_01/Pirates170507_468x399.jpg (with Johnny Depp, ~ 2007) http://tinyurl.com/ybfdqw7 Of course, it does not work so well for everyone, Keith Richards is probably one of the better examples. You might say what about his drug usage? Well, I have heard that the heroin was just used as a hangover cure, Lenny, have you ever tried that? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep Alcohol lowers your body temperature and would cause you to get hypothermia even faster than a sober person would ;) Keep that in mind if you ever venture up to Alaska Lenny ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You must not have been down here for Mardi Gras in one of the few years > where we actually had freezing temperatures. We still have the same number > of almost nude folks and flashing girls all around the French Quarter and > other mostly adult areas of Mardi Gras, relying solely on alcohol heating! > At least that's what I relied on while roaming the streets in my barrel... > and nothing else on under the barrel! LOL Lots of shocked faces by the > tourists who were brave enough to kneel down and look through the 25 cents > peep hole... and I usually made enough money for my next drink! LOL ;-) I > KNOW... I KNOW.. TMFI!!!! > > Thank God there was no internet back then... but if anyone still has any > photos of "the crazy guy in the barrel" from their Mardi Gras vacations in > the 80's, let me know since I lost all my old pics from the May 1995 > spring > flooding caused by our local politicians! > > As further evidence that alcohol heating works, have you ever tried to > freeze a bottle of Stoli? Can't be done... at least not with conventional > home freezers. ;-) Lemon Drop shots are my recommended use of this very > chilled Stoli! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > Lenny, > > Unlike the fish I was talking about, simply adding alcohol to your bodily > fluids will not mean you are immune to freezing. You would probably be > aware > of this if you had temperatures that ever got below the freezing point of > water. Also, keep in mind that salt water has a lower freezing point > temperature than freshwater does. Consider, too, that the fish is found at > depths of a mile or more below the surface, which enough alcohol > consumption > may cause you to at least think of trying, and your chance of survival is > even less. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > Yeah.... well us Saints FANS have an "antifreeze agent" in our bodily > fluids > right now too. It's called ALCOHOL!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY WAS GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? NOT DEM COLTS!!!! > > WHO DAT!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly described > fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, this is a > fish > you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into shortly, I am only > bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is quite striking. > > This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in > their > bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in waters of > Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as you can see, > even > if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult to mimic the > conditions > they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. Beside the color, there is > another > interesting feature of the fish, a single barbell projecting straight out > from its lower jaw. > > If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a color > picture of the fish on page 3) at: > http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf > <http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf> > > http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu <http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu> > > Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New > Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish Genus > Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46592	From: harry perry	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: For Lenny/Alcohol, the perfect food.

It kills germs. It thins the blood so there is no need for high blood pressure or cholesterol medicine. It's a preservative. However the trick is to drink in excess quickly so as to preserve your liver all at once in stead of destroying it a little at a time. When I used to drink I told this to my doctor. He shook his head and said "I'm really wasting my time with you aren't I?." No sense of humor I guess. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46593	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: For Lenny/Alcohol, the perfect food.

It's in the eye, or tummy of the beholder Harry!   Bill --- On Mon, 2/8/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] For Lenny/Alcohol, the perfect food. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 7:28 PM It kills germs. It thins the blood so there is no need for high blood pressure or cholesterol medicine. It's a preservative. However the trick is to drink in excess quickly so as to preserve your liver all at once in stead of destroying it a little at a time. When I used to drink I told this to my doctor. He shook his head and said "I'm really wasting my time with you aren't I?." No sense of humor I guess. Harry       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46594	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

Yeah.. I remember that play but I think the N.O. defender ended up dropping the ball.. right? Here's a snip about that play but it doesn't mention what looked like an interception either... http://nwitimes.com/sports/football/professional/article_bb7acf16-686b-51f4- 8dfa-06a4d7b5b1d1.html "Following Porter's heroics Manning ran the Colts down to the 3-yard line, but an offensive pass interference call on Pierre Garcon made it first-and-goal from the 13 led to hurried plays and an incomplete pass on fourth-and-goal from the 5." I can't find any other "bad call" or controversy issues related to the call so I think the N.O. defender must have dropped the ball due to the offensive pass interference. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Hey now! Watch what you say about my Dreadskins... LOL. By the way, it was only 2 points not a factor in the game... But what I would like to know....??? Is when the Colts were trying to score and the Offensive Wide Receiver clearly held, but the N.O. back intercepted the ball anyway, I saw the official gesture that it was an interception and pointed in the direction to be Saints ball. But after they picked up the falg and called the Offensive interference penalty it only resulted in a loss of yards and replay the down. Shouldn't that have been Saints ball? Again, it's a moot point because it didn't matter, but I'm just curious as to why it wasn't a turnover???? Mark - Zone 7 On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > OK... look at the 12 second YouTube and right near the end of the vid, > right before the Colts player kicks the ball out of his hands, he has > full control of the ball, grasped firmly between his two hands and his > arms are extended over the goal line and the ball is well over the > goal line, even if only for a split second. Apparently, this is what > some of the commentators (in the longer vid) are talking about with > the "second act" when he does have possession for just a moment as he > reaches it over the plane of the goal line, even for just a split > second before the Colts player's leg then knocks it out. > > No matter what, the initial ruling on the field was overruled and the > only way this can be done is with incontrovertible evidence by the > review booth.... which apparently there was... unless the Zebras were > closeted WHO DATS!!! ;-) > > BTW... how are them Redskins looking for next year? Or have y'all > voted to rename them the "North American Indigenous People Skins" yet? > :-P Or, are you a Patriots fan since you mentioned being a Celtics fan? > > I did find this forum post/article about the call. > > http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/07/league-defends-decisio > n-on-t > wo-point-play/?related=1 > > The ninth paragraph says this... > > "Again, that's not what the rule says. It says that if the player is > going to the ground in the act of catching a pass, he must maintain > control after he touches the ground. Not during, but after. In other > words, he must keep the ball until he comes to rest.", with the word > "after" in italics but since Lance Moore was on the ground, this was > certainly "after he touches the ground" but this forum poster insists > that "he must keep the ball until he comes to rest" but the rule > doesn't say that... only that "he must maintain control after he > touches the ground", leaning on the concept that the ground can't > cause a fumble and "touching the ground" would be with knee, thigh, > elbow, shoulder or full body. Hands and feet are allowed to touch the ground without the play being dead. > > All said, even if the play had not stood, the Saints would still have > been up by five points and the Colts still would have needed a touchdown... > which > then never got, so the Saints would have won it 29-17. Now, if the > Saints only won by one or two points, then that two-point conversion > might be more controversial today but I'm not finding a lot of Indy > coaches or players laying any kind of blame on that call. > > I'm gonna convert you to a Who Dat yet. ;-) > > > WHO DAT!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, > > Both videos show that his hands left the bal while going over the > plane. If that is a score, then merely the act of putting the ball > over the plane would be considered a score, which it is not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to > crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain > control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the > plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's > incomplete... but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball > crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was > hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside > the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end > zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as soon as even > a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of the goal > line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was moot since > the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. > Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second > mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but > that isn't correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) > > This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY > > A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks > only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D > > Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a > goal line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as > the ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the > player maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball > completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING > two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came > back into the end zone until he was hitting the ground (the ground > can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts player kicked the ball out of > his hands (inadvertently) before the ball hits the ground. That ref > who was standing right over the play simply made a bad call as the > challenge showed!!! ;-) > > In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey.com recap, I think > this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... > http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html > > "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the > Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." > > DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! > > WHO DAT!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the > ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen > calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when > the player did not have control of the ball before going out of > bounds. > > As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to > an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor > either team, nor any player on both teams. > > Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David > Letterman was one of the best. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your > *allegation* > (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but > was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth > as being a score since a player does not have to have full control of > the ball all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, > like they would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of > the goal line, the score happens and the play is then dead for > anything else that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I > don't remember the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best > recollection of our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one > was a pass to Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a > touchdown (around 20+ yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to > Shockey which took place across the middle, nowhere near an > out-of-bounds area.. which was followed up by that two-point > conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking this is the play you are > talking about but I'll go and read some of the sports articles and > recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. > > Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB > record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception > and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the > final nail in the coffin of the Colts. > > If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks > that can't tell what he's even saying... > http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) > > Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" > http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from > an unbiased source > http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and > they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't > be a hater \\Steve//! LOL > > BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... > way below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government > thinking when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super > Bowl... and it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback > for CBS' news coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that > touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a > touchdown. From the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had > full control of the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have > been ruled an incomplete pass. > > For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the > Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is > the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, > which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a > favored team. It did not matter to me who won. I pay just enough > attention during the football season so I can maybe give a halfway > intelligent answer or ask an appropriate question when dealing with > customers. The same goes for many sports. The only sport I give more > than a casual attentiveness to is professional basketball, and my team > is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. > > And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities > on the human body still stands. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In > fact, the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week > early down in the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? > Ray</HTML> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , > .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , > .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail > aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.co > m>to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > Or email > aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email > aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.co > m>to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , > .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , > .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail > aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.co > m>to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > Or email > aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email > aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.co > m>to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , > .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , > .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail > aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.co > m>to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single email > > Or email > aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email > aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.co > m>to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46595	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: For Lenny/Alcohol, the perfect food.

LOL. I use to joke with friends about how everyone should raise the BAC (Blood Alcohol Content) to at least 2.0 on a regular basis since we all know that alcohol kills germs so this would kill all the germs in our bodies on a regular basis. You forgot that it's also an antidepressant since you forget about any problems you may have and then you kill off a certain number of brain cells so those bad memories never come back. LOL And for those folks who think I or others might have a drinking problem... remember this T-Shirt/sign... "I don't have a drinking problem. I drink. I get drunk. I fall down. No problem!" ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 6:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] For Lenny/Alcohol, the perfect food. It's in the eye, or tummy of the beholder Harry!   Bill --- On Mon, 2/8/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] For Lenny/Alcohol, the perfect food. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 7:28 PM It kills germs. It thins the blood so there is no need for high blood pressure or cholesterol medicine. It's a preservative. However the trick is to drink in excess quickly so as to preserve your liver all at once in stead of destroying it a little at a time. When I used to drink I told this to my doctor. He shook his head and said "I'm really wasting my time with you aren't I?." No sense of humor I guess. Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee

They would have needed a touchdown either way, to get back into the game so I'm not sure the psyche issue is really an issue. If it made the difference between needing a field goal or touchdown, that certainly could have contributed to a psyche issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Mark, It is not the points that matter to the players. Had that play been called the other way, it could have been enough for the Colts to get on top of the Saints, with a different outcome to the game. The psychological impact could have made the difference. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Hey now! Watch what you say about my Dreadskins... LOL. By the way, it was only 2 points not a factor in the game... But what I would like to know....??? Is when the Colts were trying to score and the Offensive Wide Receiver clearly held, but the N.O. back intercepted the ball anyway, I saw the official gesture that it was an interception and pointed in the direction to be Saints ball. But after they picked up the falg and called the Offensive interference penalty it only resulted in a loss of yards and replay the down. Shouldn't that have been Saints ball? Again, it's a moot point because it didn't matter, but I'm just curious as to why it wasn't a turnover???? Mark - Zone 7 On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > OK... look at the 12 second YouTube and right near the end of the vid, > right before the Colts player kicks the ball out of his hands, he has > full control of the ball, grasped firmly between his two hands and his > arms are extended > over the goal line and the ball is well over the goal line, even if > only for a split second. Apparently, this is what some of the > commentators (in the longer vid) are talking about with the "second > act" when he does have possession for just a moment as he reaches it > over the plane of the goal line, even for just a split second before > the Colts player's leg then knocks it out. > > No matter what, the initial ruling on the field was overruled and the > only way this can be done is with incontrovertible evidence by the > review booth.... which apparently there was... unless the Zebras were > closeted WHO > DATS!!! ;-) > > BTW... how are them Redskins looking for next year? Or have y'all > voted to rename them the "North American Indigenous People Skins" yet? > :-P Or, are you a Patriots fan since you mentioned being a Celtics fan? > > I did find this forum post/article about the call. > > http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/07/league-defends-decision-on-t > wo-point-play/?related=1 > > The ninth paragraph says this... > > "Again, that's not what the rule says. It says that if the player is > going to the ground in the act of catching a pass, he must maintain > control after > he touches the ground. Not during, but after. In other words, he must > keep the ball until he comes to rest.", with the word "after" in > italics but since Lance Moore was on the ground, this was certainly > "after he touches the ground" but this forum poster insists that "he > must keep the ball until > he comes to rest" but the rule doesn't say that... only that "he must > maintain control after he touches the ground", leaning on the concept > that the ground can't cause a fumble and "touching the ground" would > be with knee, thigh, elbow, shoulder or full body. Hands and feet are > allowed to touch the ground without the play being dead. > > All said, even if the play had not stood, the Saints would still have > been up by five points and the Colts still would have needed a touchdown... > which > then never got, so the Saints would have won it 29-17. Now, if the > Saints only won by one or two points, then that two-point conversion > might be more > controversial today but I'm not finding a lot of Indy coaches or > players laying any kind of blame on that call. > > I'm gonna convert you to a Who Dat yet. ;-) > > > WHO DAT!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, > > Both videos show that his hands left the bal while going over the plane. If > that is a score, then merely the act of putting the ball over the > plane would be considered a score, which it is not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to > crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain > control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the > plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's > incomplete... but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball > crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was > hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside > the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end > zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as > soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of > the goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was > moot since > the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. > Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second > mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but > that isn't > correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) > > This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHyGAw4ffY > > A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks > only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D > > Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal > line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the > ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player > maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball > completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING > two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came > back into the end zone until he was > hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts > player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the > ball hits the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play > simply made a bad > call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) > > In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey.com recap, I think > this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... > http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html > > "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the > Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." > > DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! > > WHO DAT!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the > ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen > calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when > the player did not have control of the ball before going out of > bounds. > > As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to > an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor > either team, nor any player on both teams. > > Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David > Letterman was one of the best. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your > *allegation* > (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but > was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth > as being > a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball > all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they > would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal > line, the score happens and the play is then dead for anything else > that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember > the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of > our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to > Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ > yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to Shockey which took place > across the middle, nowhere near an out-of-bounds area.. which was > followed up by that two-point conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking > this is the play you are talking about but I'll go and read some of > the sports articles and recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. > > Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB > record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception > and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the > final nail in the coffin of the Colts. > > If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a-co-hol" > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks > that can't tell what he's even saying... > http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jamiefoxx/blameitonthealcohol.html) > > Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" > http://www.whodatnation.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from > an unbiased source > http://www.northjersey.com/sports/83782442_Super_Bowl_recap.html and > they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't > be a hater > \\Steve//! LOL > > BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... > way below expectations... and what the heck was the Federal government thinking > when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and > it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news > coverage of the current administration's follies... or rather lack thereof. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that > touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From > the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of > the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an > incomplete pass. > > For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the > Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is > the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, > which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a > favored team. It did not matter > to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season > so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate > question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. > The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is > professional basketball, and my > team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. > > And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities > on the human body still stands. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > Of sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, > the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early > down in > the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

I don't know about that. It sure makes girls look hotter! LOL You know the old saying... the more I drink, the better they look! Works for guys and girls. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep Alcohol lowers your body temperature and would cause you to get hypothermia even faster than a sober person would ;) Keep that in mind if you ever venture up to Alaska Lenny ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You must not have been down here for Mardi Gras in one of the few > years where we actually had freezing temperatures. We still have the > same number of almost nude folks and flashing girls all around the > French Quarter and other mostly adult areas of Mardi Gras, relying solely on alcohol heating! > At least that's what I relied on while roaming the streets in my barrel... > and nothing else on under the barrel! LOL Lots of shocked faces by the > tourists who were brave enough to kneel down and look through the 25 > cents peep hole... and I usually made enough money for my next drink! > LOL ;-) I KNOW... I KNOW.. TMFI!!!! > > Thank God there was no internet back then... but if anyone still has > any photos of "the crazy guy in the barrel" from their Mardi Gras > vacations in the 80's, let me know since I lost all my old pics from > the May 1995 spring flooding caused by our local politicians! > > As further evidence that alcohol heating works, have you ever tried to > freeze a bottle of Stoli? Can't be done... at least not with > conventional home freezers. ;-) Lemon Drop shots are my recommended > use of this very chilled Stoli! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > Lenny, > > Unlike the fish I was talking about, simply adding alcohol to your > bodily fluids will not mean you are immune to freezing. You would > probably be aware of this if you had temperatures that ever got below > the freezing point of water. Also, keep in mind that salt water has a > lower freezing point temperature than freshwater does. Consider, too, > that the fish is found at depths of a mile or more below the surface, > which enough alcohol consumption may cause you to at least think of > trying, and your chance of survival is even less. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > Yeah.... well us Saints FANS have an "antifreeze agent" in our bodily > fluids right now too. It's called ALCOHOL!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY WAS GONNA > BEAT DEM SAINTS? NOT DEM COLTS!!!! > > WHO DAT!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly > described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, > this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into > shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is > quite striking. > > This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in > their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in > waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as > you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult > to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. > Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a > single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. > > If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a > color picture of the fish on page 3) at: > http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf > <http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf> > > http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu <http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu> > > Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New > Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish > Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46598	From: harry perry	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: OT, Superbowl WIN/Lenny

I think they wanted the win really bad. Probably tired of all the abuse for the past 40 years. Harry --- On Mon, 2/8/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 8:43 PM   They would have needed a touchdown either way, to get back into the game so I'm not sure the psyche issue is really an issue. If it made the difference between needing a field goal or touchdown, that certainly could have contributed to a psyche issue. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Mark, It is not the points that matter to the players. Had that play been called the other way, it could have been enough for the Colts to get on top of the Saints, with a different outcome to the game. The psychological impact could have made the difference. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mark Hough Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:54 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting Fish You'll Never Kee Hey now! Watch what you say about my Dreadskins.. . LOL. By the way, it was only 2 points not a factor in the game... But what I would like to know....??? Is when the Colts were trying to score and the Offensive Wide Receiver clearly held, but the N.O. back intercepted the ball anyway, I saw the official gesture that it was an interception and pointed in the direction to be Saints ball. But after they picked up the falg and called the Offensive interference penalty it only resulted in a loss of yards and replay the down. Shouldn't that have been Saints ball? Again, it's a moot point because it didn't matter, but I'm just curious as to why it wasn't a turnover???? Mark - Zone 7 On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com>wrote: > > > OK... look at the 12 second YouTube and right near the end of the vid, > right before the Colts player kicks the ball out of his hands, he has > full control of the ball, grasped firmly between his two hands and his > arms are extended > over the goal line and the ball is well over the goal line, even if > only for a split second. Apparently, this is what some of the > commentators (in the longer vid) are talking about with the "second > act" when he does have possession for just a moment as he reaches it > over the plane of the goal line, even for just a split second before > the Colts player's leg then knocks it out. > > No matter what, the initial ruling on the field was overruled and the > only way this can be done is with incontrovertible evidence by the > review booth.... which apparently there was... unless the Zebras were > closeted WHO > DATS!!! ;-) > > BTW... how are them Redskins looking for next year? Or have y'all > voted to rename them the "North American Indigenous People Skins" yet? > :-P Or, are you a Patriots fan since you mentioned being a Celtics fan? > > I did find this forum post/article about the call. > > http://profootballt alk.nbcsports. com/2010/ 02/07/league- defends-decision -on-t > wo-point-play/ ?related= 1 > > The ninth paragraph says this... > > "Again, that's not what the rule says. It says that if the player is > going to the ground in the act of catching a pass, he must maintain > control after > he touches the ground. Not during, but after. In other words, he must > keep the ball until he comes to rest.", with the word "after" in > italics but since Lance Moore was on the ground, this was certainly > "after he touches the ground" but this forum poster insists that "he > must keep the ball until > he comes to rest" but the rule doesn't say that... only that "he must > maintain control after he touches the ground", leaning on the concept > that the ground can't cause a fumble and "touching the ground" would > be with knee, thigh, elbow, shoulder or full body. Hands and feet are > allowed to touch the ground without the play being dead. > > All said, even if the play had not stood, the Saints would still have > been up by five points and the Colts still would have needed a touchdown... > which > then never got, so the Saints would have won it 29-17. Now, if the > Saints only won by one or two points, then that two-point conversion > might be more > controversial today but I'm not finding a lot of Indy coaches or > players laying any kind of blame on that call. > > I'm gonna convert you to a Who Dat yet. ;-) > > > WHO DAT!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, > > Both videos show that his hands left the bal while going over the plane. If > that is a score, then merely the act of putting the ball over the > plane would be considered a score, which it is not. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Right... but I think you are still comparing going out of bounds to > crossing the goal line. When going out of bounds, they must maintain > control of the ball and if they do not have control as they cross the > plane of the out-of-bounds line or the goal line, then it's > incomplete.. . but Lance Moore had control of the ball as the ball > crossed the plane of the goal line and only lost the ball as he was > hitting the ground. Since his knees and hips were already down inside > the end zone, all he had to do was pull the ball back into the end > zone, which he did, while being tackled and instantly, as > soon as even a part of the ball crossed the start of the white line of > the goal line, it was a score. Anything that happened after that was > moot since > the score happened as soon as the ball crossed the start of the white line. > Here's a couple of YouTubes showing the AMAZING catch!!! > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=TV0l9VqG1NM (at around the 40 second > mark, one of the announcers says "He has to take it to the ground" but > that isn't > correct when crossing the plane of the goal line.) > > This second 12 second vid shows things more clearly. > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=BlHyGAw4ffY > > A picture speaks a thousand words... a video (in this case) speaks > only two... WHO DAT!!!! :-D > > Back to the play... it's kind of like when a running back leaps over a goal > line pile-up sticking the ball out in front of him... as soon as the > ball crosses the plane, it's a score regardless of whether the player > maintains control of the ball after that or even loses the ball > completely once the plane is broken. In the case of the AMAZING > two-point conversion catch, he did have control of the ball as it came > back into the end zone until he was > hitting the ground (the ground can't cause a fumble) or when the Colts > player kicked the ball out of his hands (inadvertently) before the > ball hits the ground. That ref who was standing right over the play > simply made a bad > call as the challenge showed!!! ;-) > > In either case, referring back to that NorthJersey. com recap, I think > this paragraph, second from the bottom, says it all... > http://www.northjer sey.com/sports/ 83782442_ Super_Bowl_ recap.html > > "KEY STAT: The underrated New Orleans' defense holds Manning and the > Colts to a measly seven points in the final three quarters." > > DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! DE-FENSE!!! > > WHO DAT!!! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Then it must have been the conversion. If that is the rule, that the > ball only has to pass across the plane, it must be new. I've seen > calls go the opposite way, just as the original call on this one, when > the player did not have control of the ball before going out of > bounds. > > As for jumping on the bandwagon, why? I'm as close as you can get to > an impartial observer to this game as you can get. I did not favor > either team, nor any player on both teams. > > Of the commercials, the one with Jay Leno, Oprah Winfrey, and David > Letterman was one of the best. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Which call? The only play I recall that half-way fits your > *allegation* > (:-P) was the 2-point conversion that was originally ruled no good but > was challenged by Coach Sean Payton and overturned by the review booth > as being > a score since a player does not have to have full control of the ball > all the way to the ground when crossing into the end zone, like they > would on other plays. As soon as the ball broke the plane of the goal > line, the score happens and the play is then dead for anything else > that might happen.. such as a fumble or bobble... but I don't remember > the play you are talking about at all. Here's my best recollection of > our scores. We only had two offensive touchdowns, one was a pass to > Pierre Thomas in the flat which he ran in for a touchdown (around 20+ > yards) and the other was a 2 yard pass to Shockey which took place > across the middle, nowhere near an out-of-bounds area.. which was > followed up by that two-point conversion mentioned above. I'm thinking > this is the play you are talking about but I'll go and read some of > the sports articles and recaps to make sure I didn't miss anything. > > Nine points were from our PERFECT (and young) kicker, who set a new SB > record. The other seven points was from the Tracy Porter interception > and run back for 74 yards to make it 31-17 and pretty much put the > final nail in the coffin of the Colts. > > If I'm wrong, I'll just "Blame it on the A-a-a-a-al-a- co-hol" > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rfjtpp90lu8 (and for most of us folks > that can't tell what he's even saying... > http://www.azlyrics .com/lyrics/ jamiefoxx/ blameitonthealco hol.html) > > Don't be a hater \\Steve//! ;-) Just join the "WHO DAT NATION" > http://www.whodatna tion.com/ and enjoy the ride!!! Here's a recap from > an unbiased source > http://www.northjer sey.com/sports/ 83782442_ Super_Bowl_ recap.html and > they don't mention your *alleged* play either... so I repeat... don't > be a hater > \\Steve//! LOL > > BTW... I agree with your assessment of the advertising this year.... > way below expectations. .. and what the heck was the Federal government thinking > when spending $2.5 million on a Census ad during the Super Bowl... and > it was a pathetic ad at that??? Oh yeah.... it's payback for CBS' news > coverage of the current administration' s follies... or rather lack thereof. > ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > I think the Saints got a lucky call from the officials on that > touchdown pass where they originally ruled was NG, then ruled it as a touchdown. From > the replay, it looked like the Saints player never had full control of > the ball. and ended up out of bounds. It should have been ruled an > incomplete pass. > > For those of you who think I am just spouting a line because the > Saints won, let me just state that I am not a football fan. This is > the only game I watch at all, and it is usually for the commercials, > which I thought were not up to snuff this year. I did not have a > favored team. It did not matter > to me who won. I pay just enough attention during the football season > so I can maybe give a halfway intelligent answer or ask an appropriate > question when dealing with customers. The same goes for many sports. > The only sport I give more than a casual attentiveness to is > professional basketball, and my > team is the Boston Celtics during feast or famine. > > And, Lenny, what I said about alcohol and its antifreeze capabilities > on the human body still stands. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com <sevenspringss% 40wmconnect. com> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <AquaticLife% 40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT, Superbowl WIN: Was -- An Interesting > Fish You'll Never Kee > > Lenny, I understand that the parties have been going on all night! In fact, > the way it looks, Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras) is starting a week early > down in > the French Quarter. When will you be going (LOL)? Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46599	From: Joseph	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Red top zebra holding - now what?

Hi! I've been "lurking" here for some time, and getting my daily "fix" of how the ram fry are doing. Now...I need some advice! We're new to mouth brooders, and it appears that our female red top zebra (I'm not good with scientific names, but I believe it's Metriaclima pyrsonotos). She is in a tank with a number of other cichlids, similar sizes and larger. I've tried searching online and get differing opinions. Should I leave her in the tank (with the male and others...she's the only zebra female in the tank), or move her to her own tank. We have around 40 tanks and have lots of fry of many types...but this is a first for us. Any advice? Thanks! Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46600	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Alcohol WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never

\\Steve// said: "Of course, it does not work so well for everyone, Keith Richards is probably one of the better examples. You might say what about his drug usage? Well, I have heard that the heroin was just used as a hangover cure, Lenny, have you ever tried that?" My reply: The only heroine I've ever done was Wonder Woman... one drunken Halloween! Oh yeah... maybe Cat Woman too... but not the same Halloween. I'm not *that* kind of guy! ;-) I wonder what any new members are saying or thinking about my Super Bowl off-shoot threads? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Alcohol WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep Amber, Don't forget that alcohol is also a preservative. Many fish specimens are preserved in alcohol. If you are a reader of fish descriptions, you will note they usually refer to the coloration in alcohol, since most of the authors have never seen the fish live. If they do see the fish live, that color description will also be included. A good example of the preservative value of alcohol in humans can be found here: http://www.altmanphoto.com/keith_richards_portrait.jpg (1969) http://tinyurl.com/2m87cc http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_01/Pirates170507_468x399.jpg (with Johnny Depp, ~ 2007) http://tinyurl.com/ybfdqw7 Of course, it does not work so well for everyone, Keith Richards is probably one of the better examples. You might say what about his drug usage? Well, I have heard that the heroin was just used as a hangover cure, Lenny, have you ever tried that? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep Alcohol lowers your body temperature and would cause you to get hypothermia even faster than a sober person would ;) Keep that in mind if you ever venture up to Alaska Lenny ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You must not have been down here for Mardi Gras in one of the few > years where we actually had freezing temperatures. We still have the > same number of almost nude folks and flashing girls all around the > French Quarter and other mostly adult areas of Mardi Gras, relying solely on alcohol heating! > At least that's what I relied on while roaming the streets in my barrel... > and nothing else on under the barrel! LOL Lots of shocked faces by the > tourists who were brave enough to kneel down and look through the 25 > cents peep hole... and I usually made enough money for my next drink! > LOL ;-) I KNOW... I KNOW.. TMFI!!!! > > Thank God there was no internet back then... but if anyone still has > any photos of "the crazy guy in the barrel" from their Mardi Gras > vacations in the 80's, let me know since I lost all my old pics from > the May 1995 spring flooding caused by our local politicians! > > As further evidence that alcohol heating works, have you ever tried to > freeze a bottle of Stoli? Can't be done... at least not with > conventional home freezers. ;-) Lemon Drop shots are my recommended > use of this very chilled Stoli! ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > Lenny, > > Unlike the fish I was talking about, simply adding alcohol to your > bodily fluids will not mean you are immune to freezing. You would > probably be aware of this if you had temperatures that ever got below > the freezing point of water. Also, keep in mind that salt water has a > lower freezing point temperature than freshwater does. Consider, too, > that the fish is found at depths of a mile or more below the surface, > which enough alcohol consumption may cause you to at least think of > trying, and your chance of survival is even less. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > Yeah.... well us Saints FANS have an "antifreeze agent" in our bodily > fluids right now too. It's called ALCOHOL!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY WAS GONNA > BEAT DEM SAINTS? NOT DEM COLTS!!!! > > WHO DAT!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly > described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, > this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into > shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is > quite striking. > > This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in > their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in > waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as > you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult > to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. > Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a > single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. > > If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a > color picture of the fish on page 3) at: > http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf > <http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf> > > http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu <http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu> > > Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New > Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish > Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46601	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra holding - now what?

Do you want to save the fry? I ask because if she is the only zebra female then the fry are likely hybrids. If yes, then you can leave her in the tank as long as she is not being harassed. These mouthbrooders hold for about 28 days. A good time to remove her if you want to save fry is day 18. Then you can let her spit the babies or strip her. Do not leave her with the babies more than 48 hours however, or she will start to eat them. : ( A first time mom often becomes confused and swallows the eggs in about a week, but she will improve with experience. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 8:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Red top zebra holding - now what? Hi! I've been "lurking" here for some time, and getting my daily "fix" of how the ram fry are doing. Now...I need some advice! We're new to mouth brooders, and it appears that our female red top zebra (I'm not good with scientific names, but I believe it's Metriaclima pyrsonotos). She is in a tank with a number of other cichlids, similar sizes and larger. I've tried searching online and get differing opinions. Should I leave her in the tank (with the male and others...she's the only zebra female in the tank), or move her to her own tank. We have around 40 tanks and have lots of fry of many types...but this is a first for us. Any advice? Thanks! Joe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46602	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

With those plants you will not need CO2. On the cycle, that won't be an issue either; a couple small fish is not much of an ammonia source, and you had the filter media, plus the plants that grab the ammonia (and change it to ammonium) for their nitrogen. Peat will soften and acidify water, but as I have never used this I will leave it for those who have to answer better. Flourite will benefit the swords and crypts. The Java Fern you may know should be rooted on wood or rock, not in the substrate. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > The plants came from Petco, so many did not have labels, but some are Amazon Swords, crypts, and java ferns. The others I am not sure of. > > I bought SeaChem Flourite. I removed my aquarium gravel and replaced with flourite. My question now is, is this tanks now going to have to cycle again? I have a fluval which has been running for years on this tank. This should keep the bacteria numbers OK, right? As I said, in this 20 gallon tank there are only 2 Cardinals and a glass cat. > > The light is a corallife power compact. The tank is not a show tank, which is longer and narrower I think. This is the standard 20. > > Another thing. I tested my water from the tap and it is very hard. I have peat moss for outdoor gardening. Can I use that to soften the water? > > I have all the supplies to make my own CO2 bottle. How can I test the CO2 level in the tank? > > Thanks to everyone on this list who is so free with their knowledge! You guys are awesome! > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 5:43:46 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks > > You mention having some plants now; if they have been growing fine all along nothing more may be necessary, although depending upon the type of plants, you may reqquire additional nutrient fertilization. CO2 is not necessary for the vast majority of plants, nor is high light especially without the added CO2. > > Flourite is an enriched substrate gravel that will slowly over time release nutrients when in contact with plant roots. It is a comprehensive nutrient base. Unlike laterite which is iron clay and not recommended on its own nor with gravel. Sufficient iron can be added (if needed for your plants) through liquid comprehensive fertilizers and/or substrate fertilizers. Various plants have different needs, so I can advise further when I know the types (species) of plants. I have maintained successful planted aquaria for 20 years with regular dark gravel and liquid fertilzer once or twice a week. > > What type of bulb do you have (Daylight, Warm White, Cool White...) and what wattage? And what species of plants? Your answers to these questions will help. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "environmom95112" <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > Hi there, > > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. > > > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. > > > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. > > > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted tank to be successful. > > > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget! > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46603	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re; An interesting fish you'll never keep

Very interesting species indeed.   Lisa   __________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and for free at PLUS7. www.tv.yahoo.com.au/plus7 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46604	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

Actually mom turns her head when she sees me ;) My facebook page has a rather skeery pic of me at the moment. Speaking of facebook I just set up pages for two of the aquarium societies I belong to. http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjpz9r6 http://preview.tinyurl.com/ylgf659 Both are Non profits so I am not trying to sell anything :) -Mike Congrats to the Saints on their long over due Super Bowl victory! -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 7:33 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep   Hmmmmm... I wonder if Mike says the same thing when he looks in a mirror? ;-) I was thinking, "A face only a mother could love" when I saw the close-up of the fish's face. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep Now that is one handsome fish! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2010 9:32 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep   In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is quite striking. This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a color picture of the fish on page 3) at: http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia 2009:705-713. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46605	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra holding - now what?

Joe, If you leave this female in the tank with the rest of the Cichlids, you'll probably get a few fry that will find refuge in rock crevices or under rock ledges where the adults can't find them, but to save the majority of them you'd need to remove this female to a tank of her own -- in one fast move so as not to subject her to any prolonged experience of being trapped (netted) and out of water (this, to reduce her tendency of spitting the eggs out and possibly not picking them up). Incubation takes about 3 weeks, at which time she'll release the fry for short periods to forage -- or she could eat them if disturbed or felt threatened. Some hobbyists "strip" the fry from the female's mouth at around two weeks just as they're becoming fully developed, to prevent this latter possibility. I note she's the only female Zebra in the tank, however, if she's the only Zebra representative of her species in the tank she obviously must have mated with a male of another species. I don't know though, if this is so, but if this follows through please be aware that Mbuna hybrids are not well sought after so you may have difficulty in selling the fry after raising them -- if they're a mix of species. And . . . if they are hybrids, you need to tell the buyer (store owner?) of their heritage to make his buyers aware of just what they are so that they are not resold as "Zebras," further diluting and mixing the gene pool of the species if they are bred by a new owner. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46606	From: Joseph	Date: 2/8/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra holding - now what?

Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear up several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We bought her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we set out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After some recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of other cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on spawning (isn't that so often the way?). We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this is new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find her then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the tank, that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are the fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, we would certainly mention that. Thanks again! Joe & Tami --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Joe, If you leave this female in the tank with the rest of the Cichlids, > you'll probably get a few fry that will find refuge in rock crevices or under > rock ledges where the adults can't find them, but to save the majority of > them you'd need to remove this female to a tank of her own -- in one fast > move so as not to subject her to any prolonged experience of being trapped > (netted) and out of water (this, to reduce her tendency of spitting the eggs out > and possibly not picking them up). Incubation takes about 3 weeks, at > which time she'll release the fry for short periods to forage -- or she could > eat them if disturbed or felt threatened. Some hobbyists "strip" the fry from > the female's mouth at around two weeks just as they're becoming fully > developed, to prevent this latter possibility. > > I note she's the only female Zebra in the tank, however, if she's the only > Zebra representative of her species in the tank she obviously must have > mated with a male of another species. I don't know though, if this is so, but > if this follows through please be aware that Mbuna hybrids are not well > sought after so you may have difficulty in selling the fry after raising them -- > if they're a mix of species. And . . . if they are hybrids, you need to > tell the buyer (store owner?) of their heritage to make his buyers aware of > just what they are so that they are not resold as "Zebras," further diluting > and mixing the gene pool of the species if they are bred by a new owner. Ray > </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46607	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size

My lowest room temp is 68, I keep my tanks at 79-80, I don't know at what temp do I need raise in case of (ich), but I suppose it's not way above this range. I don't like putting two heaters in one tank, they don't look nice, they take space, and I already have an internal power filter ruining the scene although it's "compact shaped". so if I'm going with the (one heater) choice, do I need to get a 150W instead? I need to buy a spare heater anyway, to keep on hand in case of heater failure, or broken heater glass. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It depends on what your normal room temperatures are like and what > temperature you want to keep the tank at. It doesn't matter what the > outside temps are like. If you keep your home at 72F year round and you > want you tank at 78F, then your 100W heater should be fine, since you have > nearly three watts per gallon. If your room temp gets down into the 60's, > you may want to increase your wattage... but if you do that, keep the 100W > that you currently have and just add a 2nd heater of 50W (or a 2nd 100W if > your room temp ever gets down into the low 60's) so that you have redundancy > in the event either heater ever fails. > > Here's a snip from TheKrib's Beginner FAQ's about heaters... > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-hardware.html#essentials > > Heaters > > If you are keeping tropical fish, you will need a heater. A heater insures > that a tank doesn't get too cool, and that the temperature stays steady > during the course of the day, even when the room cools off (e.g., at night). > For many tropical fish, a temperature of 78F is ideal. > There are two main heater types. Submersible heaters stay completely below > the water. A second, more traditional style, has a partially submerged glass > tube (which contains the heating coils), but leaves the controls above the > water. Submersible heaters are the better design, as they can be placed > horizontally along the tank's bottom. This helps keep tank temperature > uniform (heat rises), and prevents the heater from becoming exposed while > doing partial water changes. With the traditional design, one must remember > to unplug the heater before doing water changes; if the heater is > accidentally left on while the coil is above the water, the tube gets hot > and may crack when you fill the tank back up with water. > > If your room is never more than 8-10F degrees cooler than your target tank > temperature, a heater of roughly 2.5 Watts per gallon will suffice. If the > differential is higher, up to 5 Watts (or more) per gallon may be necessary. > Remember, the heater needs to keep the tank at its target temperature, even > when the room is at its coldest point; the tank's temperature should not > fluctuate. > > Heaters (especially cheap ones) will fail. Most often the contact that > actually turns the heater on and off gets permanently stuck, either in the > on or off position. In the former case, your tank can get VERY hot, > especially if the heater is larger than your tank actually requires. To > minimize potential problems, avoid heaters larger than the optimal size for > your tank. To prevent winter disasters, use two smaller heaters in parallel > rather than one large one. That way if one fails, the consequences won't be > as disastrous. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT, WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heater Size > > Hi, > As I mentioned before, I lost my heater due to the CO2 system disaster. > I've been using my spare 100W heater, and it's keeping the temp nice and > steady for me, although these are the coldest days of winter. The broken > heater was 150w and 2" longer than this 100w heater. > > Do I need to switch to a higher heater's capacity for my 34 gal? > > Tristan >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46608	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep

Forward this post to Steven Spilburg, he shouldn't need to made any modifications to use that fish in a horror movie! Tristan - Hoping not to see nightmares tonight! > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] An Interesting Fish You'll Never Keep > > > > In my readings within the last week or so, I ran across a newly > > described fish, _Pogonophyrne stewarti_. Since, as I said in my title, > > this is a fish you will never keep, and the reasons why, I'll get into > > shortly, I am only bothering to mention it because of its looks. It is > > quite striking. > > > > This fish is one of a group of fish that have an "antifreeze" agent in > > their bodily fluids to keep them from freezing since they live in > > waters of Antarctica's ocean at a depth of 1696-1738 meters. So, as > > you can see, even if you had a marine tank, it would be most difficult > > to mimic the conditions they live in. The fish is about 7.75" SL. > > Beside the color, there is another interesting feature of the fish, a > > single barbell projecting straight out from its lower jaw. > > > > If you are truly curious, you can find the complete article (with a > > color picture of the fish on page 3) at: > > http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf > > <http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/54_Eakin_et_al2009.pdf> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu <http://tinyurl.com/ykwarhu> > > > > Eakin, Richard R., Joseph T. Eastman, and Thomas J. Near. 2009. "A New > > Species and a Molecular Phylogenetic Analysis of the Antarctic Fish > > Genus Pogonophryne (Notothenioidei: Artedidraconidae)". Copeia > 2009:705-713. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46609	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

NO , I didn't lower the line down to the liquid in the bottle, it was about 1" below the cap, and the bottle was only 3/4 full. I don't know a lot about physics, but as you worked your brain so hard to figure out what happened, I worked my memory so hard to, and just remembered shaking the bottle slightly before loosening the cap and going out of home, to see if the materials are producing gas. Probably,the dashing CO2 up to the air stone and then the sudden stop of CO2 supply started the siphon. and the loose cap caused the tank water to poor to the floor. If that's what happened, then I was really lucky to loosen that cap, if I didn't do so, the water filling the bottle would have caused a backwards siphon bringing alcohol formed in the bottle up to the tank water, poisoning the fish and probably killing them all, especially that the mixture had been reacting for 24 hours before I installed the system. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The other thing I'm wondering is if Tristan had the air line shoved down > into the liquid instead of just barely into the bottle to only allow the > generated CO2 gas to enter the air line? If the line did get down into the > liquid and some of the liquid traveled up the line, then when he loosened > the bottle cap, that liquid would have drained down back into the bottle and > with it, it would have started pulling some of the tank water up the air > line and once that water made it over the top of the tank, the siphon would > have gotten started. > > If the line was only getting CO2 gas into it, then I'm still confused how > the siphon got started. > > Of course, the same can be said for air pumps that fail or when the power > goes out... how does the water travel up the tube, from inside the tank, to > get over the top of the tank in the first place to start the siphon? Or > possibly a failing air pump or an air pump that loses power could cause the > motor/piston to reverse somehow which would draw some of the water up the > line and that might be all it needs to get started.... but then how does > that equate with the bottle of CO2 mix? > > Or.... maybe the cooling air contracts in the line and sucks up some of the > water. That would be likely with either the air pump failure but still not > sure about the CO2 bottle with the cap loosened... unless when the CO2 mix > started cooling, it created a vacuum from the contraction and that pulled > the cap down just enough to seal it and then it started sucking water into > the line and then as the water started filling up the CO2 bottle, that > released the slight vacuum that had temporarily closed the bottle top and > then the water could start overflowing the bottle as it drained the tank. > > OK... anyone who understands what I just tried to explain... let me know if > you think I'm on the correct track. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size

For treatment of Ich, the tank's temperature would need to be raised to at least 82F, which dramatically increases the speed of the life-cycle of Ich at 82F so that the salt or medication can treat/kill the parasite when it's in the free swimming stage and some studies show the parasite will not even reproduce at the higher 86F temperature which might be the needed treatment for folks without access to medications and who have fish that are intolerant of salt. This article and included links explains Ich and treatment in more detail. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php Since you do not want to go with the suggested dual-heater system, your 100W heater should be sufficient for normal situations but you should follow through with your idea of having a stand-by backup heater in case of failure or the need to raise the temperature of your tank for treatment of Ich, etc. Another 100W heater would suffice. Since you don't like the distractions of appliances showing up in the background of your tank... and since you are going to buy another heater anyhow, you might want to consider the Rena Smart Heater that can be used with most HOB filters and it slips over the intake tube of the HOB so there's one less thing in the background. You mention "internal power filter" so I'm not sure if that's an HOB or one of the fully submerged internal filters... but if it's an HOB, often called a "power filter", then the Smart Heater might be an option for you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heater Size My lowest room temp is 68, I keep my tanks at 79-80, I don't know at what temp do I need raise in case of (ich), but I suppose it's not way above this range. I don't like putting two heaters in one tank, they don't look nice, they take space, and I already have an internal power filter ruining the scene although it's "compact shaped". so if I'm going with the (one heater) choice, do I need to get a 150W instead? I need to buy a spare heater anyway, to keep on hand in case of heater failure, or broken heater glass. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It depends on what your normal room temperatures are like and what > temperature you want to keep the tank at. It doesn't matter what the > outside temps are like. If you keep your home at 72F year round and > you want you tank at 78F, then your 100W heater should be fine, since > you have nearly three watts per gallon. If your room temp gets down > into the 60's, you may want to increase your wattage... but if you do > that, keep the 100W that you currently have and just add a 2nd heater > of 50W (or a 2nd 100W if your room temp ever gets down into the low > 60's) so that you have redundancy in the event either heater ever fails. > > Here's a snip from TheKrib's Beginner FAQ's about heaters... > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-hardware.html#essentials > > Heaters > > If you are keeping tropical fish, you will need a heater. A heater > insures that a tank doesn't get too cool, and that the temperature > stays steady during the course of the day, even when the room cools off (e.g., at night). > For many tropical fish, a temperature of 78F is ideal. > There are two main heater types. Submersible heaters stay completely > below the water. A second, more traditional style, has a partially > submerged glass tube (which contains the heating coils), but leaves > the controls above the water. Submersible heaters are the better > design, as they can be placed horizontally along the tank's bottom. > This helps keep tank temperature uniform (heat rises), and prevents > the heater from becoming exposed while doing partial water changes. > With the traditional design, one must remember to unplug the heater > before doing water changes; if the heater is accidentally left on > while the coil is above the water, the tube gets hot and may crack when you fill the tank back up with water. > > If your room is never more than 8-10F degrees cooler than your target > tank temperature, a heater of roughly 2.5 Watts per gallon will > suffice. If the differential is higher, up to 5 Watts (or more) per gallon may be necessary. > Remember, the heater needs to keep the tank at its target temperature, > even when the room is at its coldest point; the tank's temperature > should not fluctuate. > > Heaters (especially cheap ones) will fail. Most often the contact that > actually turns the heater on and off gets permanently stuck, either in > the on or off position. In the former case, your tank can get VERY > hot, especially if the heater is larger than your tank actually > requires. To minimize potential problems, avoid heaters larger than > the optimal size for your tank. To prevent winter disasters, use two > smaller heaters in parallel rather than one large one. That way if one > fails, the consequences won't be as disastrous. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT, WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heater Size > > Hi, > As I mentioned before, I lost my heater due to the CO2 system disaster. > I've been using my spare 100W heater, and it's keeping the temp nice > and steady for me, although these are the coldest days of winter. The > broken heater was 150w and 2" longer than this 100w heater. > > Do I need to switch to a higher heater's capacity for my 34 gal? > > Tristan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46611	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

Now I really feel offended by my stupidity, even for someone who doesn't know a lot about physics. The bottle was on the floor and the tank's stand is about 3' high, it can't take the "alcohol" solution UP. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greyclouds99" <greyclouds99@...> wrote: > > > > NO , I didn't lower the line down to the liquid in the bottle, it was about 1" below the cap, and the bottle was only 3/4 full. > I don't know a lot about physics, but as you worked your brain so hard to figure out what happened, I worked my memory so hard to, and just remembered shaking the bottle slightly before loosening the cap and going out of home, to see if the materials are producing gas. Probably,the dashing CO2 up to the air stone and then the sudden stop of CO2 supply started the siphon. and the loose cap caused the tank water to poor to the floor. > If that's what happened, then I was really lucky to loosen that cap, if I didn't do so, the water filling the bottle would have caused a backwards siphon bringing alcohol formed in the bottle up to the tank water, poisoning the fish and probably killing them all, especially that the mixture had been reacting for 24 hours before I installed the system. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > The other thing I'm wondering is if Tristan had the air line shoved down > > into the liquid instead of just barely into the bottle to only allow the > > generated CO2 gas to enter the air line? If the line did get down into the > > liquid and some of the liquid traveled up the line, then when he loosened > > the bottle cap, that liquid would have drained down back into the bottle and > > with it, it would have started pulling some of the tank water up the air > > line and once that water made it over the top of the tank, the siphon would > > have gotten started. > > > > If the line was only getting CO2 gas into it, then I'm still confused how > > the siphon got started. > > > > Of course, the same can be said for air pumps that fail or when the power > > goes out... how does the water travel up the tube, from inside the tank, to > > get over the top of the tank in the first place to start the siphon? Or > > possibly a failing air pump or an air pump that loses power could cause the > > motor/piston to reverse somehow which would draw some of the water up the > > line and that might be all it needs to get started.... but then how does > > that equate with the bottle of CO2 mix? > > > > Or.... maybe the cooling air contracts in the line and sucks up some of the > > water. That would be likely with either the air pump failure but still not > > sure about the CO2 bottle with the cap loosened... unless when the CO2 mix > > started cooling, it created a vacuum from the contraction and that pulled > > the cap down just enough to seal it and then it started sucking water into > > the line and then as the water started filling up the CO2 bottle, that > > released the slight vacuum that had temporarily closed the bottle top and > > then the water could start overflowing the bottle as it drained the tank. > > > > OK... anyone who understands what I just tried to explain... let me know if > > you think I'm on the correct track. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT SAY DEY > > GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46612	From: greyclouds99	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size

My power filter is fully submerged. I can't use a "Hang on the back" filter unless I changed the wooden hood on my tank. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > For treatment of Ich, the tank's temperature would need to be raised to at > least 82F, which dramatically increases the speed of the life-cycle of Ich > at 82F so that the salt or medication can treat/kill the parasite when it's > in the free swimming stage and some studies show the parasite will not even > reproduce at the higher 86F temperature which might be the needed treatment > for folks without access to medications and who have fish that are > intolerant of salt. This article and included links explains Ich and > treatment in more detail. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php > > Since you do not want to go with the suggested dual-heater system, your 100W > heater should be sufficient for normal situations but you should follow > through with your idea of having a stand-by backup heater in case of failure > or the need to raise the temperature of your tank for treatment of Ich, etc. > Another 100W heater would suffice. > > Since you don't like the distractions of appliances showing up in the > background of your tank... and since you are going to buy another heater > anyhow, you might want to consider the Rena Smart Heater that can be used > with most HOB filters and it slips over the intake tube of the HOB so > there's one less thing in the background. You mention "internal power > filter" so I'm not sure if that's an HOB or one of the fully submerged > internal filters... but if it's an HOB, often called a "power filter", then > the Smart Heater might be an option for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heater Size > > My lowest room temp is 68, I keep my tanks at 79-80, I don't know at what > temp do I need raise in case of (ich), but I suppose it's not way above this > range. > > I don't like putting two heaters in one tank, they don't look nice, they > take space, and I already have an internal power filter ruining the scene > although it's "compact shaped". so if I'm going with the (one heater) > choice, do I need to get a 150W instead? > > I need to buy a spare heater anyway, to keep on hand in case of heater > failure, or broken heater glass. > > > Tristan > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > It depends on what your normal room temperatures are like and

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46613	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

Well.. if the air line was down into the liquid and the bottle was capped, the pressure from the chemical reaction creating CO2 gas would have pushed the mixture up into the tank. This is why I verified that the opening to the air line was only in the gas area of the bottle. Since it was, I'm still scratching my head as to how the siphon ever started and think one of my theories (below in this thread) must be the cause but the exact actions by you would have to be duplicated to see which one caused it. I'm leaning towards the loosened bottle cap being sucked back down as the mixture started cooling off when you released the pressure and then as it further cooled off, the contracting liquid started sucking water from the tank into the air line until it sucked enough to where the water made it over the top of the tank and then once that water started flowing down into the bottle (from gravity), it continued sucking more water like a normal siphon effect would do. Then, as the tank's water started filling the 2-liter bottle, the bottle cap was no longer sucked down and the liquid was able to flow out of the 2-liter bottle and then it continued to siphon the tank until almost empty. This is only a theory and I don't care to test it myself but maybe someone with a tank in a basement or fish room (with non-damageable flooring) can duplicate this theory to see if it's likely. Mike Deenerz... are you up for this? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 7:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle Now I really feel offended by my stupidity, even for someone who doesn't know a lot about physics. The bottle was on the floor and the tank's stand is about 3' high, it can't take the "alcohol" solution UP. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greyclouds99" <greyclouds99@...> wrote: > > > > NO , I didn't lower the line down to the liquid in the bottle, it was about 1" below the cap, and the bottle was only 3/4 full. > I don't know a lot about physics, but as you worked your brain so hard to figure out what happened, I worked my memory so hard to, and just remembered shaking the bottle slightly before loosening the cap and going out of home, to see if the materials are producing gas. Probably,the dashing CO2 up to the air stone and then the sudden stop of CO2 supply started the siphon. and the loose cap caused the tank water to poor to the floor. > If that's what happened, then I was really lucky to loosen that cap, if I didn't do so, the water filling the bottle would have caused a backwards siphon bringing alcohol formed in the bottle up to the tank water, poisoning the fish and probably killing them all, especially that the mixture had been reacting for 24 hours before I installed the system. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > The other thing I'm wondering is if Tristan had the air line shoved > > down into the liquid instead of just barely into the bottle to only > > allow the generated CO2 gas to enter the air line? If the line did > > get down into the liquid and some of the liquid traveled up the > > line, then when he loosened the bottle cap, that liquid would have > > drained down back into the bottle and with it, it would have started > > pulling some of the tank water up the air line and once that water made it over the top of the tank, the siphon would > > have gotten started. > > > > If the line was only getting CO2 gas into it, then I'm still > > confused how the siphon got started. > > > > Of course, the same can be said for air pumps that fail or when the > > power goes out... how does the water travel up the tube, from inside > > the tank, to get over the top of the tank in the first place to > > start the siphon? Or possibly a failing air pump or an air pump > > that loses power could cause the motor/piston to reverse somehow > > which would draw some of the water up the line and that might be all > > it needs to get started.... but then how does that equate with the bottle of CO2 mix? > > > > Or.... maybe the cooling air contracts in the line and sucks up some > > of the water. That would be likely with either the air pump failure > > but still not sure about the CO2 bottle with the cap loosened... > > unless when the CO2 mix started cooling, it created a vacuum from > > the contraction and that pulled the cap down just enough to seal it > > and then it started sucking water into the line and then as the > > water started filling up the CO2 bottle, that released the slight > > vacuum that had temporarily closed the bottle top and then the water could start overflowing the bottle as it drained the tank. > > > > OK... anyone who understands what I just tried to explain... let me > > know if you think I'm on the correct track. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > > SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Heater Size

Since you don't like all the appliances showing up in your tank, you should look at one day adding a sump tank to your system. Besides adding water volume to your entire system, it would also be where you could put the filter, heater, CO2 (with your wife's permission, of course! ;-)), etc. and then the only thing you would have in your tank would be the overflow siphon box (up in one of the top rear corners of the tank) and the returning water line in the other top rear corner of the tank. I'm presuming you have some kinds of cut-outs in your wooden hood or that you could make small cut-outs at least to accommodate those things. Your other option, should your current filter ever die on you is to go with an external canister filter and they do sell in-line heaters that could be plumbed into the returning water line of the canister filter so that you would only have the lift tube for the filter and then the returning line from the filter... one could be hidden in a back corner, extending to the bottom and the other could be hidden in a top corner on the other end of the tank. For your smaller tank, the Rena Filstar XP-1 would work fine (and is an affordably priced and good and efficient filter system) and add another gallon of water volume from the filter's reservoir and also add additional water volume since you would be removing your internal filter from the tank. All you would need is 1" cut-outs on each end of the back of the wooden hood to run this suggestion. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 7:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heater Size My power filter is fully submerged. I can't use a "Hang on the back" filter unless I changed the wooden hood on my tank. Tristan --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > For treatment of Ich, the tank's temperature would need to be raised > to at least 82F, which dramatically increases the speed of the > life-cycle of Ich at 82F so that the salt or medication can treat/kill > the parasite when it's in the free swimming stage and some studies > show the parasite will not even reproduce at the higher 86F > temperature which might be the needed treatment for folks without > access to medications and who have fish that are intolerant of salt. > This article and included links explains Ich and treatment in more > detail. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php > > Since you do not want to go with the suggested dual-heater system, > your 100W heater should be sufficient for normal situations but you > should follow through with your idea of having a stand-by backup > heater in case of failure or the need to raise the temperature of your tank for treatment of Ich, etc. > Another 100W heater would suffice. > > Since you don't like the distractions of appliances showing up in the > background of your tank... and since you are going to buy another > heater anyhow, you might want to consider the Rena Smart Heater that > can be used with most HOB filters and it slips over the intake tube of > the HOB so there's one less thing in the background. You mention > "internal power filter" so I'm not sure if that's an HOB or one of the > fully submerged internal filters... but if it's an HOB, often called a > "power filter", then the Smart Heater might be an option for you. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heater Size > > My lowest room temp is 68, I keep my tanks at 79-80, I don't know at > what temp do I need raise in case of (ich), but I suppose it's not way > above this range. > > I don't like putting two heaters in one tank, they don't look nice, > they take space, and I already have an internal power filter ruining > the scene although it's "compact shaped". so if I'm going with the > (one heater) choice, do I need to get a 150W instead? > > I need to buy a spare heater anyway, to keep on hand in case of heater > failure, or broken heater glass. > > > Tristan > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > It depends on what your normal room temperatures are like and ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46615	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

I found this while I was searching for DIY CO2 setups. They mention using a check valve so that water doesn't drain out of your tank in a siphon effect (like what happened). Perhaps you should check it out and see if you can make one of their home made check valves for your system so you won't have this problem again? http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/14453-diy-co2-guide-pictures-recipes.html Hope it helps. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well.. if the air line was down into the liquid and the bottle was capped, > the pressure from the chemical reaction creating CO2 gas would have pushed > the mixture up into the tank. This is why I verified that the opening to > the air line was only in the gas area of the bottle. Since it was, I'm > still scratching my head as to how the siphon ever started and think > one of > my theories (below in this thread) must be the cause but the exact actions > by you would have to be duplicated to see which one caused it. I'm leaning > towards the loosened bottle cap being sucked back down as the mixture > started cooling off when you released the pressure and then as it further > cooled off, the contracting liquid started sucking water from the tank > into > the air line until it sucked enough to where the water made it over > the top > of the tank and then once that water started flowing down into the bottle > (from gravity), it continued sucking more water like a normal siphon > effect > would do. Then, as the tank's water started filling the 2-liter > bottle, the > bottle cap was no longer sucked down and the liquid was able to flow > out of > the 2-liter bottle and then it continued to siphon the tank until almost > empty. > > This is only a theory and I don't care to test it myself but maybe someone > with a tank in a basement or fish room (with non-damageable flooring) can > duplicate this theory to see if it's likely. Mike Deenerz... are you > up for > this? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 7:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle > > Now I really feel offended by my stupidity, even for someone who doesn't > know a lot about physics. The bottle was on the floor and the tank's stand > is about 3' high, it can't take the "alcohol" solution UP. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "greyclouds99" > <greyclouds99@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > NO , I didn't lower the line down to the liquid in the bottle, it was > about 1" below the cap, and the bottle was only 3/4 full. > > I don't know a lot about physics, but as you worked your brain so > hard to > figure out what happened, I worked my memory so hard to, and just > remembered > shaking the bottle slightly before loosening the cap and going out of > home, > to see if the materials are producing gas. Probably,the dashing CO2 up to > the air stone and then the sudden stop of CO2 supply started the > siphon. and > the loose cap caused the tank water to poor to the floor. > > If that's what happened, then I was really lucky to loosen that cap, > if I > didn't do so, the water filling the bottle would have caused a backwards > siphon bringing alcohol formed in the bottle up to the tank water, > poisoning > the fish and probably killing them all, especially that the mixture > had been > reacting for 24 hours before I installed the system. > > > > Tristan > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > > > The other thing I'm wondering is if Tristan had the air line shoved > > > down into the liquid instead of just barely into the bottle to only > > > allow the generated CO2 gas to enter the air line? If the line did > > > get down into the liquid and some of the liquid traveled up the > > > line, then when he loosened the bottle cap, that liquid would have > > > drained down back into the bottle and with it, it would have started > > > pulling some of the tank water up the air line and once that water > made > it over the top of the tank, the siphon would > > > have gotten started. > > > > > > If the line was only getting CO2 gas into it, then I'm still > > > confused how the siphon got started. > > > > > > Of course, the same can be said for air pumps that fail or when the > > > power goes out... how does the water travel up the tube, from inside > > > the tank, to get over the top of the tank in the first place to > > > start the siphon? Or possibly a failing air pump or an air pump > > > that loses power could cause the motor/piston to reverse somehow > > > which would draw some of the water up the line and that might be all > > > it needs to get started.... but then how does that equate with the > bottle of CO2 mix? > > > > > > Or.... maybe the cooling air contracts in the line and sucks up some > > > of the water. That would be likely with either the air pump failure > > > but still not sure about the CO2 bottle with the cap loosened... > > > unless when the CO2 mix started cooling, it created a vacuum from > > > the contraction and that pulled the cap down just enough to seal it > > > and then it started sucking water into the line and then as the > > > water started filling up the CO2 bottle, that released the slight > > > vacuum that had temporarily closed the bottle top and then the water > could start overflowing the bottle as it drained the tank. > > > > > > OK... anyone who understands what I just tried to explain... let me > > > know if you think I'm on the correct track. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > > > SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46616	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

The anti-siphon "check valves" are pretty cheap... just a couple of dollars for a brass one if I remember correctly. I think I'd have to just buy one but then I was looking at the article and right above and below the 2nd picture, I see that they did was use a plastic check valve and a syringe to make a "DIY bubble counter & yeast strainer" but they mention that "some plastic check valves do not work" and that "CO2 will degrade a plastic check valve" so I think using a brass one would be better. Good article though... with lots of follow-up posts and replies (16 pages)... it's in my Favorites folder now and I'll read more of it as the day goes by. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 1:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle I found this while I was searching for DIY CO2 setups. They mention using a check valve so that water doesn't drain out of your tank in a siphon effect (like what happened). Perhaps you should check it out and see if you can make one of their home made check valves for your system so you won't have this problem again? http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/14453-diy- co2-guide-pictures-recipes.html Hope it helps. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Well.. if the air line was down into the liquid and the bottle was > capped, the pressure from the chemical reaction creating CO2 gas would > have pushed the mixture up into the tank. This is why I verified that > the opening to the air line was only in the gas area of the bottle. > Since it was, I'm still scratching my head as to how the siphon ever > started and think one of my theories (below in this thread) must be > the cause but the exact actions by you would have to be duplicated to > see which one caused it. I'm leaning towards the loosened bottle cap > being sucked back down as the mixture started cooling off when you > released the pressure and then as it further cooled off, the > contracting liquid started sucking water from the tank into the air > line until it sucked enough to where the water made it over the top of > the tank and then once that water started flowing down into the bottle > (from gravity), it continued sucking more water like a normal siphon > effect would do. Then, as the tank's water started filling the 2-liter > bottle, the bottle cap was no longer sucked down and the liquid was > able to flow out of the 2-liter bottle and then it continued to siphon > the tank until almost empty. > > This is only a theory and I don't care to test it myself but maybe > someone with a tank in a basement or fish room (with non-damageable > flooring) can duplicate this theory to see if it's likely. Mike > Deenerz... are you up for this? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 7:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle > > Now I really feel offended by my stupidity, even for someone who > doesn't know a lot about physics. The bottle was on the floor and the > tank's stand is about 3' high, it can't take the "alcohol" solution UP. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "greyclouds99" > <greyclouds99@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > NO , I didn't lower the line down to the liquid in the bottle, it > > was > about 1" below the cap, and the bottle was only 3/4 full. > > I don't know a lot about physics, but as you worked your brain so > hard to > figure out what happened, I worked my memory so hard to, and just > remembered shaking the bottle slightly before loosening the cap and > going out of home, to see if the materials are producing gas. > Probably,the dashing CO2 up to the air stone and then the sudden stop > of CO2 supply started the siphon. and the loose cap caused the tank > water to poor to the floor. > > If that's what happened, then I was really lucky to loosen that cap, > if I > didn't do so, the water filling the bottle would have caused a > backwards siphon bringing alcohol formed in the bottle up to the tank > water, poisoning the fish and probably killing them all, especially > that the mixture had been reacting for 24 hours before I installed the > system. > > > > Tristan > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > > > The other thing I'm wondering is if Tristan had the air line > > > shoved down into the liquid instead of just barely into the bottle > > > to only allow the generated CO2 gas to enter the air line? If the > > > line did get down into the liquid and some of the liquid traveled > > > up the line, then when he loosened the bottle cap, that liquid > > > would have drained down back into the bottle and with it, it would > > > have started pulling some of the tank water up the air line and > > > once that water > made > it over the top of the tank, the siphon would > > > have gotten started. > > > > > > If the line was only getting CO2 gas into it, then I'm still > > > confused how the siphon got started. > > > > > > Of course, the same can be said for air pumps that fail or when > > > the power goes out... how does the water travel up the tube, from > > > inside the tank, to get over the top of the tank in the first > > > place to start the siphon? Or possibly a failing air pump or an > > > air pump that loses power could cause the motor/piston to reverse > > > somehow which would draw some of the water up the line and that > > > might be all it needs to get started.... but then how does that > > > equate with the > bottle of CO2 mix? > > > > > > Or.... maybe the cooling air contracts in the line and sucks up > > > some of the water. That would be likely with either the air pump > > > failure but still not sure about the CO2 bottle with the cap loosened... > > > unless when the CO2 mix started cooling, it created a vacuum from > > > the contraction and that pulled the cap down just enough to seal > > > it and then it started sucking water into the line and then as the > > > water started filling up the CO2 bottle, that released the slight > > > vacuum that had temporarily closed the bottle top and then the > > > water > could start overflowing the bottle as it drained the tank. > > > > > > OK... anyone who understands what I just tried to explain... let > > > me know if you think I'm on the correct track. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > > > SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46617	From: Lisa	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: My sick swordtail

My little male pineapple swordtail, who I have raised and cared for from fryhood is sick I think. He's very listless, hiding a lot and seems to be breathing hard. I have also noticed that he's trying to get as close to the filter's outward flow of bubbles as possible. So if he's not `hugging the bubbles' he's hiding amongst the roots of one of my silk plants at the bottom of the tank. Two weeks ago. I treated the whole tank with a suspected outbreak of velvet, using `multi cure' And I've had him in an isolation box within the tank for 24 hours to monitor him. He seemed fine in the box, but after I released him last night, was not so good again. Being a swordtail, the only male in the tank, and one I have raised myself, I would hate to see him die or suffer. What can I do? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46618	From: Joseph	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Red Top Zebra again

Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear up several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We bought her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we set out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After some recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of other cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on spawning (isn't that so often the way?). We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this is new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find her then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the tank, that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are the fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, we would certainly mention that. Thanks again! Joe & Tami

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46619	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

I don't have the same kinds of cichlids that you do, but I can give my own experience with egg laying Angel fish. My Angel's have only successfuly had fry hatch once, and that was when they were in my large 125 gallon tank with a bunch of other community fish. Ever since I moved them to their own 55 gallon tank to themselves last year (to hopefully keep them happier and the other fish happier since they're nasty little guys, hehe), they have laid eggs several times since then but they have never hatched since the very first time, and that first time they ate all their babies right after they had hatched. It sounds like your cichlids also seem to enjoy their larger tank as mine did, perhaps that is the reason they laid eggs, or perhaps they feel more comfortable with other fish around. It's hard to tell sometimes without trial and error. I believe someone else posted that you could remove the female while she's holding babies she may spit them out really quick (so you would need to be very fast while scooping her out, probably with a cup rather than a net as the babies would go through the net), or she may swallow them as well if they are free swimming already. Also moving her to her own "different" tank may stress her out as well and cause her to eat the babies. Basically it comes down to whether you want the mom happy and healthy or you want all her babies (as many as possible to live), if you're okay with only "some" living by hiding in the tank then I would suggest leaving her there. At least a few should survive as long as the parents don't suddenly decide to eat the babies. When you bought these fish the first time did the seller tell you their tank setup they had for breeding them? Perhaps they were doing something differently that was causing the fish to spawn a lot more often? Amber Joseph wrote: > > Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear up > several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We bought > her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we set > out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite > aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After some > recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of other > cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in > the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on > spawning (isn't that so often the way?). > > We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this is > new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to > save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week > ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find her > then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the tank, > that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this > point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are the > fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any > fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't > 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, we > would certainly mention that. > > Thanks again! > > Joe & Tami > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46620	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France

http://dailyfun4u.blogspot.com/2010/02/aquarium-telephone-booth-in-france.ht ml http://tinyurl.com/yhwfql9 An ordinary phone booth was transformed into an aquarium by artists Benoit Deseille and Benedetto Bufalino as part of the Lyon Light Festival in France. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46621	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France

Gosh better not be Dr. Who's booth ;) I bet they needed a lot of sealant to make that an aquarium though, I've never seen a phone booth that holds water myself but us Alaskans seem to think that phone booth's don't need doors (who'd have thought of it? LOL). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > http://dailyfun4u.blogspot.com/2010/02/aquarium-telephone-booth-in-france.ht > <http://dailyfun4u.blogspot.com/2010/02/aquarium-telephone-booth-in-france.ht> > ml > > http://tinyurl.com/yhwfql9 <http://tinyurl.com/yhwfql9> > > An ordinary phone booth was transformed into an aquarium by artists Benoit > Deseille and Benedetto Bufalino as part of the Lyon Light Festival in > France. > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46622	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

These are mouth brooders and it doesn't work the same way. The eggs are picked up immediately as they are laid. An experienced mom will probably not spit the eggs in the net. As long as the other fish are not harassing her in the main tank it's fine to leave her there for 18 days. Then either move her to a maternity tank and strip the babies from her mouth, or let her spit naturally. At 18 days the fry should be free-swimming. She will eat the babies after a day or two following spitting them out, so remove her as well. Mbuna parental care lasts only until the babies are spit, after that the parents will eat them. I do have survivor fry in my main tank, but it is not one-two from every clutch...it is just one-two every couple of months. All the adult fish will eat the babies if possible. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red Top Zebra again I don't have the same kinds of cichlids that you do, but I can give my own experience with egg laying Angel fish. My Angel's have only successfuly had fry hatch once, and that was when they were in my large 125 gallon tank with a bunch of other community fish. Ever since I moved them to their own 55 gallon tank to themselves last year (to hopefully keep them happier and the other fish happier since they're nasty little guys, hehe), they have laid eggs several times since then but they have never hatched since the very first time, and that first time they ate all their babies right after they had hatched. It sounds like your cichlids also seem to enjoy their larger tank as mine did, perhaps that is the reason they laid eggs, or perhaps they feel more comfortable with other fish around. It's hard to tell sometimes without trial and error. I believe someone else posted that you could remove the female while she's holding babies she may spit them out really quick (so you would need to be very fast while scooping her out, probably with a cup rather than a net as the babies would go through the net), or she may swallow them as well if they are free swimming already. Also moving her to her own "different" tank may stress her out as well and cause her to eat the babies. Basically it comes down to whether you want the mom happy and healthy or you want all her babies (as many as possible to live), if you're okay with only "some" living by hiding in the tank then I would suggest leaving her there. At least a few should survive as long as the parents don't suddenly decide to eat the babies. When you bought these fish the first time did the seller tell you their tank setup they had for breeding them? Perhaps they were doing something differently that was causing the fish to spawn a lot more often? Amber Joseph wrote: > > Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear up > several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We bought > her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we set > out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite > aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After some > recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of other > cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in > the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on > spawning (isn't that so often the way?). > > We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this is > new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to > save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week > ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find her > then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the tank, > that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this > point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are the > fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any > fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't > 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, we > would certainly mention that. > > Thanks again! > > Joe & Tami > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46623	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

I was aware of them being mouth brooders, I was following the post and what had been said by Ray and a couple other people. If the person doesn't know how to strip the babies from their mouth then they may need info or help though, I've already saw people posting about stripping the eggs from the mom, just no one said HOW to do it ;) Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > These are mouth brooders and it doesn't work the same way. The eggs are > picked up immediately as they are laid. An experienced mom will probably > not spit the eggs in the net. > > As long as the other fish are not harassing her in the main tank it's fine > to leave her there for 18 days. Then either move her to a maternity tank > and strip the babies from her mouth, or let her spit naturally. At 18 days > the fry should be free-swimming. > > She will eat the babies after a day or two following spitting them out, so > remove her as well. Mbuna parental care lasts only until the babies are > spit, after that the parents will eat them. > > I do have survivor fry in my main tank, but it is not one-two from every > clutch...it is just one-two every couple of months. All the adult fish > will > eat the babies if possible. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red Top Zebra again > > I don't have the same kinds of cichlids that you do, but I can give my > own experience with egg laying Angel fish. My Angel's have only > successfuly had fry hatch once, and that was when they were in my large > 125 gallon tank with a bunch of other community fish. Ever since I moved > them to their own 55 gallon tank to themselves last year (to hopefully > keep them happier and the other fish happier since they're nasty little > guys, hehe), they have laid eggs several times since then but they have > never hatched since the very first time, and that first time they ate > all their babies right after they had hatched. It sounds like your > cichlids also seem to enjoy their larger tank as mine did, perhaps that > is the reason they laid eggs, or perhaps they feel more comfortable with > other fish around. It's hard to tell sometimes without trial and error. > I believe someone else posted that you could remove the female while > she's holding babies she may spit them out really quick (so you would > need to be very fast while scooping her out, probably with a cup rather > than a net as the babies would go through the net), or she may swallow > them as well if they are free swimming already. Also moving her to her > own "different" tank may stress her out as well and cause her to eat the > babies. Basically it comes down to whether you want the mom happy and > healthy or you want all her babies (as many as possible to live), if > you're okay with only "some" living by hiding in the tank then I would > suggest leaving her there. At least a few should survive as long as the > parents don't suddenly decide to eat the babies. > When you bought these fish the first time did the seller tell you their > tank setup they had for breeding them? Perhaps they were doing something > differently that was causing the fish to spawn a lot more often? > > Amber > > Joseph wrote: > > > > Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear up > > several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We bought > > her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we set > > out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite > > aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After some > > recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of other > > cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in > > the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on > > spawning (isn't that so often the way?). > > > > We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this is > > new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to > > save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week > > ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find her > > then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the tank, > > that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this > > point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are the > > fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any > > fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't > > 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, we > > would certainly mention that. > > > > Thanks again! > > > > Joe & Tami > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46624	From: Joseph	Date: 2/9/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

I am aware that they're mouth brooders and I've heard of people stripping them - but we have NO idea how to do it. What I'm really getting at is that we'd like to try to save as many babies as possible, and since I don't know how long she's been holding, I'm wondering if we should try to move her right away, or wait longer. Any thoughts? Joe & Tami --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I was aware of them being mouth brooders, I was following the post and > what had been said by Ray and a couple other people. > If the person doesn't know how to strip the babies from their mouth then > they may need info or help though, I've already saw people posting about > stripping the eggs from the mom, just no one said HOW to do it ;) > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > These are mouth brooders and it doesn't work the same way. The eggs are > > picked up immediately as they are laid. An experienced mom will probably > > not spit the eggs in the net. > > > > As long as the other fish are not harassing her in the main tank it's fine > > to leave her there for 18 days. Then either move her to a maternity tank > > and strip the babies from her mouth, or let her spit naturally. At 18 days > > the fry should be free-swimming. > > > > She will eat the babies after a day or two following spitting them out, so > > remove her as well. Mbuna parental care lasts only until the babies are > > spit, after that the parents will eat them. > > > > I do have survivor fry in my main tank, but it is not one-two from every > > clutch...it is just one-two every couple of months. All the adult fish > > will > > eat the babies if possible. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red Top Zebra again > > > > I don't have the same kinds of cichlids that you do, but I can give my > > own experience with egg laying Angel fish. My Angel's have only > > successfuly had fry hatch once, and that was when they were in my large > > 125 gallon tank with a bunch of other community fish. Ever since I moved > > them to their own 55 gallon tank to themselves last year (to hopefully > > keep them happier and the other fish happier since they're nasty little > > guys, hehe), they have laid eggs several times since then but they have > > never hatched since the very first time, and that first time they ate > > all their babies right after they had hatched. It sounds like your > > cichlids also seem to enjoy their larger tank as mine did, perhaps that > > is the reason they laid eggs, or perhaps they feel more comfortable with > > other fish around. It's hard to tell sometimes without trial and error. > > I believe someone else posted that you could remove the female while > > she's holding babies she may spit them out really quick (so you would > > need to be very fast while scooping her out, probably with a cup rather > > than a net as the babies would go through the net), or she may swallow > > them as well if they are free swimming already. Also moving her to her > > own "different" tank may stress her out as well and cause her to eat the > > babies. Basically it comes down to whether you want the mom happy and > > healthy or you want all her babies (as many as possible to live), if > > you're okay with only "some" living by hiding in the tank then I would > > suggest leaving her there. At least a few should survive as long as the > > parents don't suddenly decide to eat the babies. > > When you bought these fish the first time did the seller tell you their > > tank setup they had for breeding them? Perhaps they were doing something > > differently that was causing the fish to spawn a lot more often? > > > > Amber > > > > Joseph wrote: > > > > > > Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear up > > > several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We bought > > > her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we set > > > out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite > > > aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After some > > > recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of other > > > cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in > > > the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on > > > spawning (isn't that so often the way?). > > > > > > We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this is > > > new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to > > > save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week > > > ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find her > > > then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the tank, > > > that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this > > > point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are the > > > fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any > > > fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't > > > 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, we > > > would certainly mention that. > > > > > > Thanks again! > > > > > > Joe & Tami > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46625	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject:

Hello:    A good mom (usually not a first timer) will most likely keep the eggs in her buccal cavity even after being moved.  I see the bigger problem in catching her out because I don't think I've ever been more frustrated than when try to move Mbunna from a tank.  They are smart little buggers that know every nook and crannie to hide in while you're getting the net hung up on everything in the tank trying to catch them.  Everyone who keeps Africans knows what I'm talking about!  Is it worth removing lots of cage "furniture" in order to catch them?  That's the question at hand.    If it is worthwhile to move her so she can have the babies and them have a better chance at survival then by all means do so.  If she does by some chance spit out the eggs into the net (usually they won't) then the eggs can remain in the net and be suspended over the flow from an airstone which acts like the mother turning them over in her mouth to allow better oxygen flow over the eggs and chances are they will hatch.  I've had to do this a couple times and others I know have done it as well.  Depending on the shape the eggs are in this method can prove successful in hatching them.  It doesn't always work but it certainly is worth the try in the event this happens.    Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!!    The "Creature" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46626	From: Noura	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.

http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-of-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl.com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ---------------------------<continued at link>---------------------------- \\Steve// Reply to sender | Reply to group Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 3 a.. New Links 2 Visit Your Group Start a New Topic Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/` [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46627	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

If you have a spare tank, want to save the babies, and she has been holding at least 7 days then you might want to move her. She is unlikely to be overly stressed by being alone in a tank. Stripping is not necessary to save maximum babies, you can just remove her once she spits them. If you don’t know how long she has been holding I would not strip since the babies could still be undeveloped. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again I am aware that they're mouth brooders and I've heard of people stripping them - but we have NO idea how to do it. What I'm really getting at is that we'd like to try to save as many babies as possible, and since I don't know how long she's been holding, I'm wondering if we should try to move her right away, or wait longer. Any thoughts? Joe & Tami --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I was aware of them being mouth brooders, I was following the post and > what had been said by Ray and a couple other people. > If the person doesn't know how to strip the babies from their mouth then > they may need info or help though, I've already saw people posting about > stripping the eggs from the mom, just no one said HOW to do it ;) > > Amber > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > These are mouth brooders and it doesn't work the same way. The eggs are > > picked up immediately as they are laid. An experienced mom will probably > > not spit the eggs in the net. > > > > As long as the other fish are not harassing her in the main tank it's fine > > to leave her there for 18 days. Then either move her to a maternity tank > > and strip the babies from her mouth, or let her spit naturally. At 18 days > > the fry should be free-swimming. > > > > She will eat the babies after a day or two following spitting them out, so > > remove her as well. Mbuna parental care lasts only until the babies are > > spit, after that the parents will eat them. > > > > I do have survivor fry in my main tank, but it is not one-two from every > > clutch...it is just one-two every couple of months. All the adult fish > > will > > eat the babies if possible. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:24 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red Top Zebra again > > > > I don't have the same kinds of cichlids that you do, but I can give my > > own experience with egg laying Angel fish. My Angel's have only > > successfuly had fry hatch once, and that was when they were in my large > > 125 gallon tank with a bunch of other community fish. Ever since I moved > > them to their own 55 gallon tank to themselves last year (to hopefully > > keep them happier and the other fish happier since they're nasty little > > guys, hehe), they have laid eggs several times since then but they have > > never hatched since the very first time, and that first time they ate > > all their babies right after they had hatched. It sounds like your > > cichlids also seem to enjoy their larger tank as mine did, perhaps that > > is the reason they laid eggs, or perhaps they feel more comfortable with > > other fish around. It's hard to tell sometimes without trial and error. > > I believe someone else posted that you could remove the female while > > she's holding babies she may spit them out really quick (so you would > > need to be very fast while scooping her out, probably with a cup rather > > than a net as the babies would go through the net), or she may swallow > > them as well if they are free swimming already. Also moving her to her > > own "different" tank may stress her out as well and cause her to eat the > > babies. Basically it comes down to whether you want the mom happy and > > healthy or you want all her babies (as many as possible to live), if > > you're okay with only "some" living by hiding in the tank then I would > > suggest leaving her there. At least a few should survive as long as the > > parents don't suddenly decide to eat the babies. > > When you bought these fish the first time did the seller tell you their > > tank setup they had for breeding them? Perhaps they were doing something > > differently that was causing the fish to spawn a lot more often? > > > > Amber > > > > Joseph wrote: > > > > > > Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear up > > > several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We bought > > > her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we set > > > out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite > > > aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After some > > > recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of other > > > cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in > > > the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on > > > spawning (isn't that so often the way?). > > > > > > We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this is > > > new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to > > > save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week > > > ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find her > > > then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the tank, > > > that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this > > > point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are the > > > fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any > > > fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't > > > 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, we > > > would certainly mention that. > > > > > > Thanks again! > > > > > > Joe & Tami > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46628	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re:

Just resign yourself to removing all the rocks in the tank, LOL. I have 250 pounds in my 125G. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello: A good mom (usually not a first timer) will most likely keep the eggs in her buccal cavity even after being moved. I see the bigger problem in catching her out because I don't think I've ever been more frustrated than when try to move Mbunna from a tank. They are smart little buggers that know every nook and crannie to hide in while you're getting the net hung up on everything in the tank trying to catch them. Everyone who keeps Africans knows what I'm talking about! Is it worth removing lots of cage "furniture" in order to catch them? That's the question at hand. If it is worthwhile to move her so she can have the babies and them have a better chance at survival then by all means do so. If she does by some chance spit out the eggs into the net (usually they won't) then the eggs can remain in the net and be suspended over the flow from an airstone which acts like the mother turning them over in her mouth to allow better oxygen flow over the eggs and chances are they will hatch. I've had to do this a couple times and others I know have done it as well. Depending on the shape the eggs are in this method can prove successful in hatching them. It doesn't always work but it certainly is worth the try in the event this happens. Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!! The "Creature" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46629	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail

To aid you in answering my below questions, see my blog article, "Sick Fish Questionnaire" and give us as much info as possible. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html Do you know what the active ingredients are in "multi cure"? What is it supposed to treat? Did you continue the treatment as directed? Is there a brand name? I found this on the net but wanted to make sure... "AquaMaster" - http://www.petsupersavers.com.au/?page=139&item=1795&product_search=&dosearc h= AQUAMASTER MULTI CURE MULTI CURE Treatment for Common Aquarium Diseases Broad spectrum medication for treatment of most common diseases in freshwater aquarium fish. including White Spot, Fungus and Fin Rot. (END SNIP) I realize they may not list the ingredients down in AU and maybe Ray will recognize a known medication that purports to treat all three things listed but the first thing that comes to my mind would be salt. I hope they aren't selling bottles of brine water. ;-) While waiting to hear from Ray, how did you decide that it was a "suspected outbreak of Velvet" and on using this medication for treatment? Velvet is pretty easy to diagnose since it makes the fish look like it was sprinkled with goldish colored sparkly dust. Is this what your fish had? What directions did you follow with the above medication? I would put him back in the isolation box. He's probably still sick, possibly a secondary infection from the parasite issue, and this is why he is hiding. It's natural for sick fish to hide. But the isolation box near the bubbles. Do you add salt to your tank already? If not, add a pinch of salt per 10G for now, while trying to figure out what is wrong, to temporarily aid in gill function, if there might be a parasite issue with his gills. Also, what other fish do you have in the tank... so we will know what the best whole-tank treatment to proceed with since I know you do not have an H-tank available. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 4:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My sick swordtail My little male pineapple swordtail, who I have raised and cared for from fryhood.is sick.I think. He's very listless, hiding a lot and seems to be breathing hard. I have also noticed that he's trying to get as close to the filter's outward flow of bubbles as possible. So if he's not `hugging the bubbles' he's hiding amongst the roots of one of my silk plants at the bottom of the tank. Two weeks ago. I treated the whole tank with a suspected outbreak of velvet, using `multi cure' And I've had him in an isolation box within the tank for 24 hours to monitor him. He seemed fine in the box, but after I released him last night, was not so good again. Being a swordtail, the only male in the tank, and one I have raised myself, I would hate to see him die or suffer. What can I do? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France

Well, at least they have goldfish and at least one Koi in the "tank" since it's an outdoor "tank" and from the looks of how folks are dressed in the 3rd pic, it's pretty cold. I hope they fishless cycled the tank before putting all of them goldfish and Koi in it. Gravel vacuuming is sure gonna be a pain! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Telephone Booth In France http://dailyfun4u.blogspot.com/2010/02/aquarium-telephone-booth-in-france.ht ml http://tinyurl.com/yhwfql9 An ordinary phone booth was transformed into an aquarium by artists Benoit Deseille and Benedetto Bufalino as part of the Lyon Light Festival in France. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46631	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.

Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticles.com/?5-Fish-Species-Beginners-Make-the-Mistake-of-Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl.com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl.com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ---------------------------<continued at link>---------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46632	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France

Lenny, Such trivial concerns you raise in your reply. The real question is: "Do the fish have the proper change to make a call?" \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Telephone Booth In France Well, at least they have goldfish and at least one Koi in the "tank" since it's an outdoor "tank" and from the looks of how folks are dressed in the 3rd pic, it's pretty cold. I hope they fishless cycled the tank before putting all of them goldfish and Koi in it. Gravel vacuuming is sure gonna be a pain! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Telephone Booth In France http://dailyfun4u.blogspot.com/2010/02/aquarium-telephone-booth-in-france.ht ml http://tinyurl.com/yhwfql9 An ordinary phone booth was transformed into an aquarium by artists Benoit Deseille and Benedetto Bufalino as part of the Lyon Light Festival in France. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46633	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.

They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected name in the narrative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticles.com/?5-Fish-Species-Beginners-Make-the-Mistake-of-Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl.com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl.com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ---------------------------<continued at link>---------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46634	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Telephone Booth In France - NOW: MORE SUPER BOWL PARAD

I think the answer is yes.... at least that would explain the call I had earlier where all I could hear was, "glub, blub, blub, glub, glub"... so it could have been a Goldfish calling. ;-) Although, my first thought was that it was one of my hung over friends who have been imbibing non-stop since Sunday, all the way through the WORLD'S LARGEST SUPER SUPER SUPER Super Bowl Parade that we had in N'Awlins last night! ;-) How ya like that segue! ;-) http://www.nola.com/superbowl/index.ssf/2010/02/super_bowl_champion_saints_s et.html Pics - http://photos.nola.com/4500/gallery/new_orleans_saints_parade/index.html 10 minute vid - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ead6pi1eDnY I was impressed that someone actually went home last night and edited all of their video footage into this 10 minute YouTube video showing all of the floats... too bad they weren't at the end of the parade, which lasted six hours and Coach Sean Payton got off of his float and ran through the crowd the last few blocks, carrying the Lombardi Trophy This local news channel video has some aerial footage of the crowd size. http://www.wdsu.com/video/22518829/index.html Make sure you play all the vids and definitely catch the U. S. Marine Corps (pronounced "Core", not "Corpse"... for those who follow U. S. Politics... LOL) playing "Halftime (lets get Crunk)! I'm actually working on the lyrics for a song... "Corpse Man" to the music of The Beatles "Tax Man" which I'll post on my political blog when it's done. ;-) Now I just have to work on my B.O. voice imitation so I can do a YouTube. LOL WHO DAT!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Telephone Booth In France Lenny, Such trivial concerns you raise in your reply. The real question is: "Do the fish have the proper change to make a call?" \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Telephone Booth In France Well, at least they have goldfish and at least one Koi in the "tank" since it's an outdoor "tank" and from the looks of how folks are dressed in the 3rd pic, it's pretty cold. I hope they fishless cycled the tank before putting all of them goldfish and Koi in it. Gravel vacuuming is sure gonna be a pain! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Telephone Booth In France http://dailyfun4u.blogspot.com/2010/02/aquarium-telephone-booth-in-france.ht ml http://tinyurl.com/yhwfql9 An ordinary phone booth was transformed into an aquarium by artists Benoit Deseille and Benedetto Bufalino as part of the Lyon Light Festival in France. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46635	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.

Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as well. Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and any other fish in the tank. And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected name in the narrative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticles.com/?5-Fish-Species-Beginners-Make-the-Mistake-of-Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl.com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl.com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ---------------------------<continued at link>---------------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46636	From: harry perry	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. Harry --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM   Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as well. Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and any other fish in the tank. And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected name in the narrative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46637	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Harry, The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they have for sale. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. Harry --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as well. Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and any other fish in the tank. And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected name in the narrative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46638	From: harry perry	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish/Steve, my suggestion

Groups like this one are a part of researching fish. I'm a member of all the groups I could find. I simple ask a question in the groups and put the information together with what I can find on the web and an accurate profile usually emerges. Harry --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 4:41 PM   Harry, The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they have for sale. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. Harry --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as well. Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and any other fish in the tank. And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected name in the narrative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46639	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

If I can replicate it yes. Concrete floor, has water on it semi frequently anyway. Of course it would be an empty tank of water. I can kill fish easy without a co2 yeast bath :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 7:15 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle   Well.. if the air line was down into the liquid and the bottle was capped, the pressure from the chemical reaction creating CO2 gas would have pushed the mixture up into the tank. This is why I verified that the opening to the air line was only in the gas area of the bottle. Since it was, I'm still scratching my head as to how the siphon ever started and think one of my theories (below in this thread) must be the cause but the exact actions by you would have to be duplicated to see which one caused it. I'm leaning towards the loosened bottle cap being sucked back down as the mixture started cooling off when you released the pressure and then as it further cooled off, the contracting liquid started sucking water from the tank into the air line until it sucked enough to where the water made it over the top of the tank and then once that water started flowing down into the bottle (from gravity), it continued sucking more water like a normal siphon effect would do. Then, as the tank's water started filling the 2-liter bottle, the bottle cap was no longer sucked down and the liquid was able to flow out of the 2-liter bottle and then it continued to siphon the tank until almost empty. This is only a theory and I don't care to test it myself but maybe someone with a tank in a basement or fish room (with non-damageable flooring) can duplicate this theory to see if it's likely. Mike Deenerz... are you up for this? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 7:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle Now I really feel offended by my stupidity, even for someone who doesn't know a lot about physics. The bottle was on the floor and the tank's stand is about 3' high, it can't take the "alcohol" solution UP. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greyclouds99" <greyclouds99@...> wrote: > > > > NO , I didn't lower the line down to the liquid in the bottle, it was about 1" below the cap, and the bottle was only 3/4 full. > I don't know a lot about physics, but as you worked your brain so hard to figure out what happened, I worked my memory so hard to, and just remembered shaking the bottle slightly before loosening the cap and going out of home, to see if the materials are producing gas. Probably,the dashing CO2 up to the air stone and then the sudden stop of CO2 supply started the siphon. and the loose cap caused the tank water to poor to the floor. > If that's what happened, then I was really lucky to loosen that cap, if I didn't do so, the water filling the bottle would have caused a backwards siphon bringing alcohol formed in the bottle up to the tank water, poisoning the fish and probably killing them all, especially that the mixture had been reacting for 24 hours before I installed the system. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > The other thing I'm wondering is if Tristan had the air line shoved > > down into the liquid instead of just barely into the bottle to only > > allow the generated CO2 gas to enter the air line? If the line did > > get down into the liquid and some of the liquid traveled up the > > line, then when he loosened the bottle cap, that liquid would have > > drained down back into the bottle and with it, it would have started > > pulling some of the tank water up the air line and once that water made it over the top of the tank, the siphon would > > have gotten started. > > > > If the line was only getting CO2 gas into it, then I'm still > > confused how the siphon got started. > > > > Of course, the same can be said for air pumps that fail or when the > > power goes out... how does the water travel up the tube, from inside > > the tank, to get over the top of the tank in the first place to > > start the siphon? Or possibly a failing air pump or an air pump > > that loses power could cause the motor/piston to reverse somehow > > which would draw some of the water up the line and that might be all > > it needs to get started.... but then how does that equate with the bottle of CO2 mix? > > > > Or.... maybe the cooling air contracts in the line and sucks up some > > of the water. That would be likely with either the air pump failure > > but still not sure about the CO2 bottle with the cap loosened... > > unless when the CO2 mix started cooling, it created a vacuum from > > the contraction and that pulled the cap down just enough to seal it > > and then it started sucking water into the line and then as the > > water started filling up the CO2 bottle, that released the slight > > vacuum that had temporarily closed the bottle top and then the water could start overflowing the bottle as it drained the tank. > > > > OK... anyone who understands what I just tried to explain... let me > > know if you think I'm on the correct track. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > > SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46640	From: Joseph	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Steve, Your experience, it seems to me, reiterates something I've seen in this and other forums many times. There is anecdotal evidence to support almost any opinion about many fish. I've never kept paradise in a 2500+ gallon pond, but I have kept them in community tanks (although I don't currently). I've had males that barely stopped short of killing themselves smashing into their own reflection in the glass, and others who lived quite peacefully with a variety of other fish. I'm most certainly in agreement with several of your points. Many websites have such minimal (or inaccurate) information as to be useless (or worse). And far too many employees at the LPS know almost nothing about the fish they are selling. Any of us who have kept fish for any period of time know that research, experience, and experimentation all play important roles in successfully keeping fish. Finally - whether or not the list of fish that newbies shouldn't keep is complete or accurate, it's point is well taken - that there are many fish to be found in the LPS that newbies (and old hands) should stay away from. Joe --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they have for sale. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as > > well. > > > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale > > Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected > > name in the narrative. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > Noura, > > > > The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews > > the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available > > domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this > > link is valid: > > > > http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin > > g&id=3252112 > > > > http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying > > > > Hi, > > Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of > > opening the page. > > > > Thanks > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying/ > > > > http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr > > > > 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > > 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance > > > > Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that > > are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why > > these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not > > suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish > > store, > > lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A > > few > > of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more > > advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not > > suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . > > . > > > > ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- > > > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46641	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Ram babies four weeks old

Here are some pictures of the babies at one month. They seem to have recovered from their fungal catastrophe and are active and feeding well. See new photos or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/ album/2049115566/pic/list? mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46642	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

You know, after two years, I"m still having the best luck with danios and xray (pristella) tetras, and that's what I've got in my 20 gallon, LOL! Got a little gold tetra who's two years old, too. Don't think I have anything else that's lasted that long. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "harry perry" <harryfisherman@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 2:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. Harry --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as well. Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and any other fish in the tank. And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected name in the narrative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46643	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Joe, That is far from a complete list. The reason I relate the pond experience is that it establishes an idea of the size of the territory that a male will call home. If we use a 3 foot diameter circle, actually more like a half circle, since all the male territories ranged around the edge of the pond, but it would be safe to assume if there were an object in the body of water that could be defined as "home base", we can then start to theorize what size tank may be needed to safely house two males. There are a few things to keep in mind, however. First, the pond did not really recreate the ecology of their home waters, and a tank would be even less representative, at least in some ways, though the tank can also be made to feel more like home with appropriate plantings and décor. Second, I did not mention the "king" of the pond, who established his territory in an arm of the pond constructed as a bog area with a fairly small opening to the main pond. He controlled the entrance way as well as utilizing most of the bog area as his own. However, I did not ever see him go all the way to the end of the arm, which I also found interesting. As for the experience you relate, refer to my last message where I mention that the fish often do not read the literature to know how they should be behaving, and different fish have different "fishalities". You were fortunate to find those fish who could live in closer quarters than one may normally expect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish Steve, Your experience, it seems to me, reiterates something I've seen in this and other forums many times. There is anecdotal evidence to support almost any opinion about many fish. I've never kept paradise in a 2500+ gallon pond, but I have kept them in community tanks (although I don't currently). I've had males that barely stopped short of killing themselves smashing into their own reflection in the glass, and others who lived quite peacefully with a variety of other fish. I'm most certainly in agreement with several of your points. Many websites have such minimal (or inaccurate) information as to be useless (or worse). And far too many employees at the LPS know almost nothing about the fish they are selling. Any of us who have kept fish for any period of time know that research, experience, and experimentation all play important roles in successfully keeping fish. Finally - whether or not the list of fish that newbies shouldn't keep is complete or accurate, it's point is well taken - that there are many fish to be found in the LPS that newbies (and old hands) should stay away from. Joe --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they have for sale. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as > > well. > > > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale > > Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected > > name in the narrative. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > Noura, > > > > The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews > > the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available > > domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this > > link is valid: > > > > http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin > > g&id=3252112 > > > > http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying > > > > Hi, > > Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of > > opening the page. > > > > Thanks > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying/ > > > > http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr > > > > 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > > 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance > > > > Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that > > are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why > > these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not > > suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish > > store, > > lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A > > few > > of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more > > advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not > > suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . > > . > > > > ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- > > > > \\Steve// > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46644	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

How does Mongabay's profile do? Other than using a common name "Paradise Gourami". http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html Social behavior: Young fish make excellent community fish, but adult males often cause problems. If two males are confined together in a small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons), they will fight almost as aggressively as male Betta splendens. Females may be attacked by males, even during non-spawning times. If attacks become too brutal on the female, remove her. Better results occur when several females are kept with one female. Best kept in a species tank. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Harry, The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they have for sale. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. Harry --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as well. Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and any other fish in the tank. And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected name in the narrative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46645	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Lenny, Even as young fish, which I started with in the pond, they are aggressive. See my other comments on territory. It pretty much rules out anything less than a 55 as a minimum. In the pond, the females pretty much hung around in the center, unless they were shopping for a male. At the end of the season, I pulled some for showing, and found that the others could not live together at all, so they were brought to auctions, pulling them from the pond as needed, almost into November, which, as mot new Englanders know, is not very warm weather. However, as I had discovered with other fish, the cooler temperatures can easily be withstood by the fish, even if it is outside the reported range. More than once I froze my [deleted] off harvesting fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish How does Mongabay's profile do? Other than using a common name "Paradise Gourami". http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html Social behavior: Young fish make excellent community fish, but adult males often cause problems. If two males are confined together in a small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons), they will fight almost as aggressively as male Betta splendens. Females may be attacked by males, even during non-spawning times. If attacks become too brutal on the female, remove her. Better results occur when several females are kept with one female. Best kept in a species tank. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Harry, The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they have for sale. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. Harry --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as well. Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and any other fish in the tank. And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected name in the narrative. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46646	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Steve, What temp ranges can the paradise fish handle? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish   Joe, That is far from a complete list. The reason I relate the pond experience is that it establishes an idea of the size of the territory that a male will call home. If we use a 3 foot diameter circle, actually more like a half circle, since all the male territories ranged around the edge of the pond, but it would be safe to assume if there were an object in the body of water that could be defined as "home base", we can then start to theorize what size tank may be needed to safely house two males. There are a few things to keep in mind, however. First, the pond did not really recreate the ecology of their home waters, and a tank would be even less representative, at least in some ways, though the tank can also be made to feel more like home with appropriate plantings and décor. Second, I did not mention the "king" of the pond, who established his territory in an arm of the pond constructed as a bog area with a fairly small opening to the main pond. He controlled the entrance way as well as utilizing most of the bog area as his own. However, I did not ever see him go all the way to the end of the arm, which I also found interesting. As for the experience you relate, refer to my last message where I mention that the fish often do not read the literature to know how they should be behaving, and different fish have different "fishalities". You were fortunate to find those fish who could live in closer quarters than one may normally expect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish Steve, Your experience, it seems to me, reiterates something I've seen in this and other forums many times. There is anecdotal evidence to support almost any opinion about many fish. I've never kept paradise in a 2500+ gallon pond, but I have kept them in community tanks (although I don't currently). I've had males that barely stopped short of killing themselves smashing into their own reflection in the glass, and others who lived quite peacefully with a variety of other fish. I'm most certainly in agreement with several of your points. Many websites have such minimal (or inaccurate) information as to be useless (or worse). And far too many employees at the LPS know almost nothing about the fish they are selling. Any of us who have kept fish for any period of time know that research, experience, and experimentation all play important roles in successfully keeping fish. Finally - whether or not the list of fish that newbies shouldn't keep is complete or accurate, it's point is well taken - that there are many fish to be found in the LPS that newbies (and old hands) should stay away from. Joe --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they have for sale. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as > > well. > > > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale > > Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected > > name in the narrative. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > Noura, > > > > The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews > > the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available > > domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this > > link is valid: > > > > http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin > > g&id=3252112 > > > > http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying > > > > Hi, > > Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of > > opening the page. > > > > Thanks > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying/ > > > > http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr > > > > 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > > 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance > > > > Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that > > are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why > > these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not > > suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish > > store, > > lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A > > few > > of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more > > advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not > > suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . > > . > > > > ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- > > > > \\Steve// > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46647	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Well it says "if kept in a small tank" IMO these fish sound aggressive no matter what size tank they are kept in... but that's just from reading what others have said about them ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > How does Mongabay's profile do? Other than using a common name "Paradise > Gourami". > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html> > > Social behavior: Young fish make excellent community fish, but adult males > often cause problems. If two males are confined together in a small tank > (Under 30" or 30 gallons), they will fight almost as aggressively as male > Betta splendens. Females may be attacked by males, even during > non-spawning > times. If attacks become too brutal on the female, remove her. Better > results occur when several females are kept with one female. Best kept > in a > species tank. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read > their > descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a > test, > I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 > sites > that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior > of the > fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The > other > site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in > tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were > aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are > aggressive > to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression > amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and > none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise > fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a > small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than > one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish > who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of > this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are > clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they > have > for sale. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research > what you > think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and > find > a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will > raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This > means > a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as > to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There > are way > too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep > dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. > Anyone > can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the > neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that > is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is > true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to > become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the > fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good > beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I > expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will > lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as > > well. > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are > another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise > fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for > "Bale > > Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected > > name in the narrative. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > Noura, > > The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews > > the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available > > domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found > this > > link is valid: > > http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- > Mistake-of- > Buyin > > g&id=3252112 > > http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- > mistake-o > > f-buying > > Hi, > > Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of > > opening the page. > > Thanks > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- > mistake-o > > f-buying/ > > http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr > > 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > > 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance > > Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that > > are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why > > these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not > > suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish > > store, > > lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A > > few > > of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more > > advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not > > suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . > > . > > ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- > --------- > --- > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46648	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

I do not recall the temperature of the water exactly, when I made the last harvest (25+ years of notes disappeared in a divorce) but I recall it was less than 50°F. Fishbase.org lists the temperature range as being 16°C - 26°C (approximately 60°F to 79°F). they can handle temperatures higher than that, though. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish Steve, What temp ranges can the paradise fish handle? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish Joe, That is far from a complete list. The reason I relate the pond experience is that it establishes an idea of the size of the territory that a male will call home. If we use a 3 foot diameter circle, actually more like a half circle, since all the male territories ranged around the edge of the pond, but it would be safe to assume if there were an object in the body of water that could be defined as "home base", we can then start to theorize what size tank may be needed to safely house two males. There are a few things to keep in mind, however. First, the pond did not really recreate the ecology of their home waters, and a tank would be even less representative, at least in some ways, though the tank can also be made to feel more like home with appropriate plantings and décor. Second, I did not mention the "king" of the pond, who established his territory in an arm of the pond constructed as a bog area with a fairly small opening to the main pond. He controlled the entrance way as well as utilizing most of the bog area as his own. However, I did not ever see him go all the way to the end of the arm, which I also found interesting. As for the experience you relate, refer to my last message where I mention that the fish often do not read the literature to know how they should be behaving, and different fish have different "fishalities". You were fortunate to find those fish who could live in closer quarters than one may normally expect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish Steve, Your experience, it seems to me, reiterates something I've seen in this and other forums many times. There is anecdotal evidence to support almost any opinion about many fish. I've never kept paradise in a 2500+ gallon pond, but I have kept them in community tanks (although I don't currently). I've had males that barely stopped short of killing themselves smashing into their own reflection in the glass, and others who lived quite peacefully with a variety of other fish. I'm most certainly in agreement with several of your points. Many websites have such minimal (or inaccurate) information as to be useless (or worse). And far too many employees at the LPS know almost nothing about the fish they are selling. Any of us who have kept fish for any period of time know that research, experience, and experimentation all play important roles in successfully keeping fish. Finally - whether or not the list of fish that newbies shouldn't keep is complete or accurate, it's point is well taken - that there are many fish to be found in the LPS that newbies (and old hands) should stay away from. Joe --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they have for sale. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as > > well. > > > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale > > Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected > > name in the narrative. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > Noura, > > > > The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews > > the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available > > domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this > > link is valid: > > > > http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin > > g&id=3252112 > > > > http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying > > > > Hi, > > Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of > > opening the page. > > > > Thanks > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying/ > > > > http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr > > > > 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > > 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance > > > > Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that > > are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why > > these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not > > suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish > > store, > > lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A > > few > > of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more > > advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not > > suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . > > . > > > > ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- > > > > \\Steve// > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46649	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: USB Mini Aquarium

What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46650	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

Wow that ebay ad is horrible, more errors than I'd care to start listing ;) And that 2nd ad has barely any info at all, so it's hard to say what's wrong except there's not enough info, LOL. My biggest concern was the air pump, it only works for 20 seconds every 4.5 minutes... that seems like not enough to keep the water oxygenated to me... Not to mention that it doesn't seem to have any mechanical filtration. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has > now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing > the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) > tomorrow > because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in > the DC > Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able > to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of > snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. > > Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium > can be > found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in > store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump > <http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump> > _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 > > http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx <http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx> > > If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via > Micro Center via mail order at their website. > http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 > <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783> > > http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv <http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46651	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

I recall seeing those on ebay about a year ago. I was a bit intrigued about the USB aspect of it for about 30 seconds. I think if I wanted to raise a couple Malyasian trumpet snails it might be of some use. But then a cup of water can do the same. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 8:58 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Wow that ebay ad is horrible, more errors than I'd care to start listing ;) And that 2nd ad has barely any info at all, so it's hard to say what's wrong except there's not enough info, LOL. My biggest concern was the air pump, it only works for 20 seconds every 4.5 minutes... that seems like not enough to keep the water oxygenated to me... Not to mention that it doesn't seem to have any mechanical filtration. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has > now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing > the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) > tomorrow > because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in > the DC > Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able > to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of > snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. > > Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium > can be > found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in > store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump > <http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air- Pump> > _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1 ee3 > > http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx <http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx> > > If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via > Micro Center via mail order at their website. > http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 > <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=03157 83> > > http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv <http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv> > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46652	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Thanks Steve. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 8:19 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish   I do not recall the temperature of the water exactly, when I made the last harvest (25+ years of notes disappeared in a divorce) but I recall it was less than 50°F. Fishbase.org lists the temperature range as being 16°C - 26°C (approximately 60°F to 79°F). they can handle temperatures higher than that, though. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish Steve, What temp ranges can the paradise fish handle? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish Joe, That is far from a complete list. The reason I relate the pond experience is that it establishes an idea of the size of the territory that a male will call home. If we use a 3 foot diameter circle, actually more like a half circle, since all the male territories ranged around the edge of the pond, but it would be safe to assume if there were an object in the body of water that could be defined as "home base", we can then start to theorize what size tank may be needed to safely house two males. There are a few things to keep in mind, however. First, the pond did not really recreate the ecology of their home waters, and a tank would be even less representative, at least in some ways, though the tank can also be made to feel more like home with appropriate plantings and décor. Second, I did not mention the "king" of the pond, who established his territory in an arm of the pond constructed as a bog area with a fairly small opening to the main pond. He controlled the entrance way as well as utilizing most of the bog area as his own. However, I did not ever see him go all the way to the end of the arm, which I also found interesting. As for the experience you relate, refer to my last message where I mention that the fish often do not read the literature to know how they should be behaving, and different fish have different "fishalities". You were fortunate to find those fish who could live in closer quarters than one may normally expect. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: beginners fish Steve, Your experience, it seems to me, reiterates something I've seen in this and other forums many times. There is anecdotal evidence to support almost any opinion about many fish. I've never kept paradise in a 2500+ gallon pond, but I have kept them in community tanks (although I don't currently). I've had males that barely stopped short of killing themselves smashing into their own reflection in the glass, and others who lived quite peacefully with a variety of other fish. I'm most certainly in agreement with several of your points. Many websites have such minimal (or inaccurate) information as to be useless (or worse). And far too many employees at the LPS know almost nothing about the fish they are selling. Any of us who have kept fish for any period of time know that research, experience, and experimentation all play important roles in successfully keeping fish. Finally - whether or not the list of fish that newbies shouldn't keep is complete or accurate, it's point is well taken - that there are many fish to be found in the LPS that newbies (and old hands) should stay away from. Joe --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they have for sale. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size etc. and find a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they will raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. Anyone can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the tank as > > well. > > > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for "Bale > > Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the corrected > > name in the narrative. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > Noura, > > > > The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews > > the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available > > domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this > > link is valid: > > > > http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- Mistake-of- Buyin > > g&id=3252112 > > > > http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying > > > > Hi, > > Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of > > opening the page. > > > > Thanks > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying/ > > > > http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr > > > > 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > > 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance > > > > Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that > > are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why > > these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not > > suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish > > store, > > lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A > > few > > of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more > > advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not > > suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . > > . > > > > ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- --------- --- > > > > \\Steve// > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46653	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle

We'll be looking forward to Dr. Mikenstein's experiment results. ;-) Did you understand Igor's theories... oops.. I meant my theories? :P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle If I can replicate it yes. Concrete floor, has water on it semi frequently anyway. Of course it would be an empty tank of water. I can kill fish easy without a co2 yeast bath :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 7:15 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle   Well.. if the air line was down into the liquid and the bottle was capped, the pressure from the chemical reaction creating CO2 gas would have pushed the mixture up into the tank. This is why I verified that the opening to the air line was only in the gas area of the bottle. Since it was, I'm still scratching my head as to how the siphon ever started and think one of my theories (below in this thread) must be the cause but the exact actions by you would have to be duplicated to see which one caused it. I'm leaning towards the loosened bottle cap being sucked back down as the mixture started cooling off when you released the pressure and then as it further cooled off, the contracting liquid started sucking water from the tank into the air line until it sucked enough to where the water made it over the top of the tank and then once that water started flowing down into the bottle (from gravity), it continued sucking more water like a normal siphon effect would do. Then, as the tank's water started filling the 2-liter bottle, the bottle cap was no longer sucked down and the liquid was able to flow out of the 2-liter bottle and then it continued to siphon the tank until almost empty. This is only a theory and I don't care to test it myself but maybe someone with a tank in a basement or fish room (with non-damageable flooring) can duplicate this theory to see if it's likely. Mike Deenerz... are you up for this? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greyclouds99 Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 7:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: LOW-TECH DIY CO2/Contents of CO2 bottle Now I really feel offended by my stupidity, even for someone who doesn't know a lot about physics. The bottle was on the floor and the tank's stand is about 3' high, it can't take the "alcohol" solution UP. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "greyclouds99" <greyclouds99@...> wrote: > > > > NO , I didn't lower the line down to the liquid in the bottle, it was about 1" below the cap, and the bottle was only 3/4 full. > I don't know a lot about physics, but as you worked your brain so hard to figure out what happened, I worked my memory so hard to, and just remembered shaking the bottle slightly before loosening the cap and going out of home, to see if the materials are producing gas. Probably,the dashing CO2 up to the air stone and then the sudden stop of CO2 supply started the siphon. and the loose cap caused the tank water to poor to the floor. > If that's what happened, then I was really lucky to loosen that cap, if I didn't do so, the water filling the bottle would have caused a backwards siphon bringing alcohol formed in the bottle up to the tank water, poisoning the fish and probably killing them all, especially that the mixture had been reacting for 24 hours before I installed the system. > > Tristan > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > The other thing I'm wondering is if Tristan had the air line shoved > > down into the liquid instead of just barely into the bottle to only > > allow the generated CO2 gas to enter the air line? If the line did > > get down into the liquid and some of the liquid traveled up the > > line, then when he loosened the bottle cap, that liquid would have > > drained down back into the bottle and with it, it would have started > > pulling some of the tank water up the air line and once that water made it over the top of the tank, the siphon would > > have gotten started. > > > > If the line was only getting CO2 gas into it, then I'm still > > confused how the siphon got started. > > > > Of course, the same can be said for air pumps that fail or when the > > power goes out... how does the water travel up the tube, from inside > > the tank, to get over the top of the tank in the first place to > > start the siphon? Or possibly a failing air pump or an air pump > > that loses power could cause the motor/piston to reverse somehow > > which would draw some of the water up the line and that might be all > > it needs to get started.... but then how does that equate with the bottle of CO2 mix? > > > > Or.... maybe the cooling air contracts in the line and sucks up some > > of the water. That would be likely with either the air pump failure > > but still not sure about the CO2 bottle with the cap loosened... > > unless when the CO2 mix started cooling, it created a vacuum from > > the contraction and that pulled the cap down just enough to seal it > > and then it started sucking water into the line and then as the > > water started filling up the CO2 bottle, that released the slight > > vacuum that had temporarily closed the bottle top and then the water could start overflowing the bottle as it drained the tank. > > > > OK... anyone who understands what I just tried to explain... let me > > know if you think I'm on the correct track. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > GEAUX SAINTS!!!! AFTER 43 YEARS, FINALLY SUPER BOWL BOUND! WHO DAT > > SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT, WHO DAT? ;-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46654	From: Lisa	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail

Hi Lenny. Yes that is the same multi cure I used. I went to my lfs and explained to him the exact symptoms displayed on the Rasboras (the original culprits) And he handed me the multi cure, directed me to use 8ml for my size tank, and change the water after 3 days. If needed, repeat again until symptoms cleared I didn't repeat the dose a second time, because what ever it had been had apparently cleared up. 2 days later, I took the rasboras to my lfs for store cred. A day or so before I got the medication I added a tsp of salt to the tank. At this point I had 2 Glass catfish (both gone) 4 – 5 Harliquin rasboras (all gone) I still have approx 4 cardinal tetras 2 BN catfish 1 male and 4 adult female guppies + fry 1 male and 2 adult swordtails + fry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46655	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Well, Mongabay does say "in a small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons)" which is better than just saying "small" since "small" is so subjective. I agree that even a 30G may be too small for two adult males from what \\Steve// says but another member said his/hers (can't remember) lived happily together... but those dang fish never read what we say anyhow so it's best to err on the side of caution. :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Well it says "if kept in a small tank" IMO these fish sound aggressive no matter what size tank they are kept in... but that's just from reading what others have said about them ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > How does Mongabay's profile do? Other than using a common name > "Paradise Gourami". > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html> > > Social behavior: Young fish make excellent community fish, but adult > males often cause problems. If two males are confined together in a > small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons), they will fight almost as > aggressively as male Betta splendens. Females may be attacked by > males, even during non-spawning times. If attacks become too brutal on > the female, remove her. Better results occur when several females are > kept with one female. Best kept in a species tank. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read > their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just > as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at > the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from > omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less > aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and > stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than > 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to > conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all > fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there > aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward > the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the > addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included > goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the > attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the > fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is > none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, > though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they > have for sale. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research > what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size > etc. and find a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they > will raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This > means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and > provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many > responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and > on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks > to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with > great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. > Anyone > can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the > neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, > even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults > or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a > wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that > is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is > true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it > requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to > become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them > in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they > grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are > many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the > fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good > beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than > they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the > beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, > and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard > for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft > acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 > and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I > expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a > female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will > lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who > will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the > tank as > > well. > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are > another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They > sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise > fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are > not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of > > buying. > > They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for > "Bale > > Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the > corrected > > name in the narrative. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of > > buying. > > Noura, > > The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain > renews > > the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of > available > > domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found > this > > link is valid: > > http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- > Mistake-of- > Buyin > > g&id=3252112 > > http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of > > buying. > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner > s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying > > Hi, > > Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able > of > > opening the page. > > Thanks > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner > s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying/ > > http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr > > 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > > 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance > > Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but > that > > are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons > why > > these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are > not > > suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish > > store, > > lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. > A > > few > > of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for > more > > advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are > not > > suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . > > . > > ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- > --------- > --- > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46656	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/10/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

As far as the weather, I heard AlGore complaining, "It's all Phil's fault!!!". I think he was referring to Punxsutawney Phil who saw his shadow on Groundhog's Day (2/2) and therefore, six more weeks of winter... after all, it can't possibly be related to global warming, could it? As far as the subject at hand, I did the math and that is a HUGE 1.3 liter "tank" (around 1/3rd U.S. Gallons) so it's barely big enough for even a single nano fish... much less the "less than 5 fish" recommended. Now... the big question \\Steve//... why are you surfing Australia's eBay? Last I heard, they can't sell Russian mail-order brides from Australia's eBay either... you have a better chance on Craigslist. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46657	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

Lenny, I first saw it on Micro Center's site. It had a whopping 3.25 line description, so I went looking for more info, which was found on eBay Australia. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium As far as the weather, I heard AlGore complaining, "It's all Phil's fault!!!". I think he was referring to Punxsutawney Phil who saw his shadow on Groundhog's Day (2/2) and therefore, six more weeks of winter... after all, it can't possibly be related to global warming, could it? As far as the subject at hand, I did the math and that is a HUGE 1.3 liter "tank" (around 1/3rd U.S. Gallons) so it's barely big enough for even a single nano fish... much less the "less than 5 fish" recommended. Now... the big question \\Steve//... why are you surfing Australia's eBay? Last I heard, they can't sell Russian mail-order brides from Australia's eBay either... you have a better chance on Craigslist. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46658	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

Lenny, Some us search all English speaking countries on ebay for books or in my case car parts and books. Once you set your ebay account up to do that you tend to get an overwhelming amount of possibly auctions of interest. But why am I telling you this, you already know more about ebay than Steve and I. We would never have looked for mail order brides on ebay and here you know all about it ;) Guess you are still looking to celebrate your super bowl by getting a new Mrs. Lenny to the house =) -Mike who is off to look for a grill for his 67 Dart convertible on New Zealand ebay... -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 10:57 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium   As far as the weather, I heard AlGore complaining, "It's all Phil's fault!!!". I think he was referring to Punxsutawney Phil who saw his shadow on Groundhog's Day (2/2) and therefore, six more weeks of winter... after all, it can't possibly be related to global warming, could it? As far as the subject at hand, I did the math and that is a HUGE 1.3 liter "tank" (around 1/3rd U.S. Gallons) so it's barely big enough for even a single nano fish... much less the "less than 5 fish" recommended. Now... the big question \\Steve//... why are you surfing Australia's eBay? Last I heard, they can't sell Russian mail-order brides from Australia's eBay either... you have a better chance on Craigslist. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1 ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46659	From: Noura	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying.

Thank you Steve, this one opened right. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. Noura, The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain renews the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of available domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found this link is valid: http://ezinearticles.com/?5-Fish-Species-Beginners-Make-the-Mistake-of-Buyin g&id=3252112 http://tinyurl.com/ya2u239 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying Hi, Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able of opening the page. Thanks Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. http://articleproman.com/2009/12/5-fish-species-beginners-make-the-mistake-o f-buying/ http://tinyurl.com/yzvmwvr 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but that are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons why these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are not suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish store, lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. A few of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for more advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are not suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . . ---------------------------<continued at link>---------------------------- \\Steve// Reply to sender | Reply to group Messages in this topic (6) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 2 a.. New Photos 4 a.. New Links 1 Visit Your Group Start a New Topic Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46660	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Yay, I feel like I can chime in here. A few posts back, someone mentioned not placing bettas together. Well, I have raised them and could not part with my babies, so had a tank full of gorgeous bettas! They were all raised together, so got along great. I can tell you that was one beautiful aquarium. I guess those guys never took the time to read either;) ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 10:39:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Well, Mongabay does say "in a small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons)" which is better than just saying "small" since "small" is so subjective. I agree that even a 30G may be too small for two adult males from what \\Steve// says but another member said his/hers (can't remember) lived happily together... but those dang fish never read what we say anyhow so it's best to err on the side of caution. :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Well it says "if kept in a small tank" IMO these fish sound aggressive no matter what size tank they are kept in... but that's just from reading what others have said about them ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > How does Mongabay's profile do? Other than using a common name > "Paradise Gourami". > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html> > > Social behavior: Young fish make excellent community fish, but adult > males often cause problems. If two males are confined together in a > small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons), they will fight almost as > aggressively as male Betta splendens. Females may be attacked by > males, even during non-spawning times. If attacks become too brutal on > the female, remove her. Better results occur when several females are > kept with one female. Best kept in a species tank. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read > their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just > as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at > the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from > omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less > aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and > stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than > 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to > conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all > fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there > aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward > the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the > addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included > goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the > attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the > fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is > none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, > though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they > have for sale. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research > what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size > etc. and find a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they > will raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This > means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and > provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many > responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and > on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks > to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with > great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. > Anyone > can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the > neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, > even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults > or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a > wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that > is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is > true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it > requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to > become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them > in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they > grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are > many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the > fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good > beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than > they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the > beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, > and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard > for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft > acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 > and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I > expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a > female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will > lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who > will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the > tank as > > well. > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are > another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They > sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise > fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are > not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of > > buying. > > They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for > "Bale > > Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the > corrected > > name in the narrative. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of > > buying. > > Noura, > > The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain > renews > > the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of > available > > domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found > this > > link is valid: > > http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- > Mistake-of- > Buyin > > g&id=3252112 > > http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of > > buying. > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner > s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying > > Hi, > > Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able > of > > opening the page. > > Thanks > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner > s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying/ > > http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr > > 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > > 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance > > Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but > that > > are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons > why > > these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are > not > > suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish > > store, > > lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. > A > > few > > of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for > more > > advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are > not > > suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . > > . > > ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- > --------- > --- > > \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46661	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail

Lisa & Lenny, Noted your posts from yesterday on this subject, but I had been pre-occupied by a double-whammy blizzard (two storms combining into one) here in northeast U.S.A. LOTS of snow removal during the occasional lulls as it would have been extremely difficult to remove if I let it all go until today. Then, I was really bushed afterwards so never got up on line. Let's see if we can get to the bottom of this situation now. For starters, the "www.petsupersaver.com" link that was supplied is very misleading as: (1). It describes the "Multi-Cure Treatment for Common Aquarium Diseases" as a "Broad-Spectrum medication," which would appear to refer to some kind of an antibiotic. Even though it contains agents that may be bacticides, they are not antimicrobials having been derived from bacteria or molds, such as Streptomycin, Penicillin or Erythromycin nor are they antimicrobial chemical derivitives such as Nitrofurazone or Furazolidone -- but are instead all dye medications. Aqua Master (Aristopet) Multi-Cure contains Malachite Green, Methylene Blue and Acriflavin, in that order. (2). It is advertised by Aristopet to be effective against White Spot (Ich), Velvet Disease and fungal diseases (but not fin-rot). As its primary ingredients are directed towards curing Ich, it is not as effective in treating Velvet, and Methylene Blue has little if any effect against Velvet. One of the the best (if not, THE best) medication for treating Velvet is Acriflavin, but as this is the third ingredient, and as there are no percentages of ingredients listed by Aristopet, it's anybody's guess as to how much Acriflavin is included and Malachite Green is not very effective against Velvet. As a result, it can be used against this disease but it needs to be continued for a longer period. It can't be increased in dosage though, just in attempts to increase the available Acriflavin as Malachite Green is dangerous to overdose with, even though there is no such danger when using plain Acriflavin. It might be best, and I'd recommend, to try to obtain a medication containing primarily Acriflavin, as is available from several aquatic medication sources here in the States -- IF this disease has been properly diagnosed as being Velvet. Otherwise, if this is know to be this disease, and if a more specific medication against Velvet can't be found it just needs a long duration of treatment with this medication, as per Aqua Master's directions for it. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46662	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail

Lisa, If you can't find a better medication containing primarily Acriflavin, and will be redosing with your same (Multi-Cure) medication, don't forget to add the salt back in even if it's only the 1 teaspoon full for this whole tank. Velvet does not like salt and even though this may not necessarily kill of the disease, it will make it harder on this microbe. The African annual Killiefish group, Nothobranchius, seem exceptionally susceptible to Velvet, but when just a token amount of salt is used -- such as what you've added -- these fish do not contract this disease to begin with. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46663	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

Laurie, If you read the literature, you would find your experience to be typical. When you raise a number of male fry together, they tend not to show aggression toward one another. However, were you to take some out of the tank for as little as a week, then place them back into the original tank, the results would be typical behavior, with the both groups show aggression toward each other. Also, your next group could just show the aggressive tendencies toward each other if raised together from a very young age, in which case you would need to separate them. Or, you may have a few aggressive fish that need to be separated out. The behavior you are witnessing, however, is more the norm, unless you are breeding for aggressiveness. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Yay, I feel like I can chime in here. A few posts back, someone mentioned not placing bettas together. Well, I have raised them and could not part with my babies, so had a tank full of gorgeous bettas! They were all raised together, so got along great. I can tell you that was one beautiful aquarium. I guess those guys never took the time to read either;) ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 10:39:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Well, Mongabay does say "in a small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons)" which is better than just saying "small" since "small" is so subjective. I agree that even a 30G may be too small for two adult males from what \\Steve// says but another member said his/hers (can't remember) lived happily together... but those dang fish never read what we say anyhow so it's best to err on the side of caution. :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Well it says "if kept in a small tank" IMO these fish sound aggressive no matter what size tank they are kept in... but that's just from reading what others have said about them ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > How does Mongabay's profile do? Other than using a common name > "Paradise Gourami". > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html> > > Social behavior: Young fish make excellent community fish, but adult > males often cause problems. If two males are confined together in a > small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons), they will fight almost as > aggressively as male Betta splendens. Females may be attacked by > males, even during non-spawning times. If attacks become too brutal on > the female, remove her. Better results occur when several females are > kept with one female. Best kept in a species tank. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read > their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just > as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at > the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from > omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less > aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and > stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than > 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to > conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all > fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there > aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward > the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the > addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included > goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the > attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the > fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is > none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, > though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they > have for sale. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research > what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size > etc. and find a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they > will raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This > means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and > provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many > responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and > on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks > to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with > great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. > Anyone > can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the > neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, > even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults > or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a > wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that > is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is > true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it > requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to > become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them > in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they > grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are > many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the > fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good > beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than > they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the > beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, > and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard > for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft > acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 > and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I > expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a > female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will > lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who > will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the > tank as > > well. > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are > another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They > sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise > fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are > not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > \\Steve// > -----<snip>-----

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46664	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: beginners fish

This is a known situation... where male Bettas who are from the same hatch and grow up together in the same tank will not fight... but if you separated them for even a short time and then try to put them back together... they seem to forget all about being brothers and nature takes over. Of course, I'm sure there are exceptions to this as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 6:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Yay, I feel like I can chime in here. A few posts back, someone mentioned not placing bettas together. Well, I have raised them and could not part with my babies, so had a tank full of gorgeous bettas! They were all raised together, so got along great. I can tell you that was one beautiful aquarium. I guess those guys never took the time to read either;) ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 10:39:32 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Well, Mongabay does say "in a small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons)" which is better than just saying "small" since "small" is so subjective. I agree that even a 30G may be too small for two adult males from what \\Steve// says but another member said his/hers (can't remember) lived happily together... but those dang fish never read what we say anyhow so it's best to err on the side of caution. :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] beginners fish Well it says "if kept in a small tank" IMO these fish sound aggressive no matter what size tank they are kept in... but that's just from reading what others have said about them ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > How does Mongabay's profile do? Other than using a common name > "Paradise Gourami". > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Macropodus_opercularis.html> > > Social behavior: Young fish make excellent community fish, but adult > males often cause problems. If two males are confined together in a > small tank (Under 30" or 30 gallons), they will fight almost as > aggressively as male Betta splendens. Females may be attacked by > males, even during non-spawning times. If attacks become too brutal on > the female, remove her. Better results occur when several females are > kept with one female. Best kept in a species tank. > (END SNIP) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > Harry, > > The problem we have with your suggestion is that the fish seldom read > their descriptions and how they are supposed to behave, eat, etc. Just > as a test, I Googled "paradise fish" (with the quotes), and looked at > the first 4 sites that came up. Three of the sites suffered from > omissions of behavior of the fish, making them seem to be less > aggressive than they really are. The other site came right out and > stated that they were not aggressive when kept in tanks of more than > 40 liters. Also stated on the sites was that they were aggressive to > conspecific males, which is also not true. They are aggressive to all > fish, though the level of aggression does vary. > > I kept paradise fish in a 2500+ gallon pond. Not only was there > aggression amongst males of the species, they were aggressive toward > the females, and none of the fish that were in the pond before the > addition of the paradise fish survived the season. These included > goldfish, green swordtails, and a small koi. I did witness some of the > attacks and even saw where more than one male paradise fish was > involved in some of those. > > Each male claimed a territory of 2-3 feet in diameter. And woe to the > fish who ignored that border line, or even came close to it. There is > none of this fully covered in any of the literature I have read, > though there are clues to this behavior if you read enough. > > And we all know how much the pet store clerks know about the fish they > have for sale. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] beginners fish > > There are pros and cons to keeping all fish. The key is to research > what you think you would like as to care, water conditions, adult size > etc. and find a match. > > If beginners want a fish that they can just throw in a tank and they > will raise themselves, there aren't any available. > > With any animal we keep we are responsible for their well being. This > means a commitment to research what is best for their well being and > provide it. > > If I mentioned keeping seahorses I'm sure there would be many > responses as to large tanks, the difficulty of marine tanks and on and > on. There are way too many myths in this hobby. I could direct folks > to a group that keep dwarf seahorses in 10 gal. marine tanks with > great success. > > An expert is simple a person who hangs out on the Internet for hours. > Anyone > can be an expert with access to the web. > > Harry > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of buying. > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:10 PM > > Actually, I have a problem with two of the fish listed. First, the > neon > > tetra. If purchased as a young , small, fish, it can be problematic, > even > > for experienced fishkeepers. However, if they are purchased as adults > or > > near adults, they are far more adaptable to water conditions provided. > > The other is the clown loach. The lead reason here is that it is a > wild > > caught fish. OK, big deal. Most neons are wild caught also, yet that > is not > > cited as a reason not to keep them is you are a novice. Yes, it is > true that > > they will grow to a foot or more. However, the amount of time it > requires > > for them to grow to that extent is longer than it should take one to > become > > an expert The problem not mentioned here is that you need to keep them > in > > groups. Three should be enough, but, the more the merrier. As they > grow, > > you'll start having larger and larger tanks, or the sense to re-home them. > > As Lenny has pointed out, with his example of the goldfish, there are > many > > other fish that should be avoided if you are just starting out. Of the > fish > > you commonly see in the stores, one that is commonly sold as a good > beginner > > fish is any of the varieties of molly. While they are easier now than > they > > have been in the past, they are still a fish that is hard for the > beginner > > to keep properly. Like most livebearers, they do better in hard water. > > (Marine) Salt content helps them as well. They are mainly vegetarians, > and > > need, like goldfish, a diet high in vegetable matter. > > Rams are another fish not suitable for beginners. They are even hard > for > > experts. They are very sensitive to water conditions, and need soft > acidic > > water. In the wild, they have been found in water nearing a pH of 4.0 > and > > extraordinarily soft. They are very sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. > > Gouramis are another tough fish for the novice, mainly due to their > > aggressiveness to conspecifics (others of the same species). Sure, I > expect > > people here will say I am wrong, that their gouramis are as sweet as pie. > > That can be true for individual fish, or if the other fish is a > female, or > > if you just happened to hit upon the certain kind of décor that will > lessen > > the aggressive tendencies of this fish, but, there will be those who > will > > speak of the gouramis as being aggressive toward every fish in the > tank as > > well. > > Paradise fish, or, as they are often labeled in the store today, are > another > > fish often sold as a beginner fish because they are tough fish. They > sure > > are. They are not fussy about anything, except maybe other paradise > fish and > > any other fish in the tank. > > And the list can go on. I'll let others make comments of fish that are > not > > good to start with, but are commonly sold as such. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:28 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of > > buying. > > They forgot Goldfish... and many others. ;-) And they have a typo for > "Bale > > Shark" [sic], which should be Bala Shark.. but they do have the > corrected > > name in the narrative. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of > > buying. > > Noura, > > The domain name has expired. Unless the person who had that domain > renews > > the registration in a few days, it will go back into the pool of > available > > domain names. I just did a quick Google on the article title and found > this > > link is valid: > > http://ezinearticle s.com/?5- Fish-Species- Beginners- Make-the- > Mistake-of- > Buyin > > g&id=3252112 > > http://tinyurl. com/ya2u239 > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake > of > > buying. > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner > s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying > > Hi, > > Can someone please paste this article into a group post, I'm not able > of > > opening the page. > > Thanks > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve Szabo > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of > > buying. > > http://articleproma n.com/2009/ 12/5-fish- species-beginner > s-make-the- mistake-o > > f-buying/ > > http://tinyurl. com/yzvmwvr > > 5 fish species beginners make the mistake of buying. > > 04.12.2009 | Author: rokebahmed | Posted in Finance > > Below you will find info on fish species that beginners often buy but > that > > are unsuitable for most beginners aquarists. There are many reasons > why > > these fish are commonly bought by beginners even though they truly are > not > > suitable for this including but not limited to bad advice in the fish > > store, > > lack of knowledge or simply because the fish looks good in the store. > A > > few > > of the fish I mention in this article make great aquarium fish for > more > > advanced aquarists but are not suited for beginners. Some species are > not > > suitable pet fish period and you should never ever buy these species. . . > > . > > ------------ --------- ------<continued at link>------- --------- > --------- > --- > > \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46665	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Lenny, Some us search all English speaking countries on ebay for books or in my case car parts and books. Once you set your ebay account up to do that you tend to get an overwhelming amount of possibly auctions of interest. But why am I telling you this, you already know more about ebay than Steve and I. We would never have looked for mail order brides on ebay and here you know all about it ;) Guess you are still looking to celebrate your super bowl by getting a new Mrs. Lenny to the house =) -Mike who is off to look for a grill for his 67 Dart convertible on New Zealand ebay... -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 10:57 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium   As far as the weather, I heard AlGore complaining, "It's all Phil's fault!!!". I think he was referring to Punxsutawney Phil who saw his shadow on Groundhog's Day (2/2) and therefore, six more weeks of winter... after all, it can't possibly be related to global warming, could it? As far as the subject at hand, I did the math and that is a HUGE 1.3 liter "tank" (around 1/3rd U.S. Gallons) so it's barely big enough for even a single nano fish... much less the "less than 5 fish" recommended. Now... the big question \\Steve//... why are you surfing Australia's eBay? Last I heard, they can't sell Russian mail-order brides from Australia's eBay either... you have a better chance on Craigslist. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1 ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46666	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail

Maybe it wasn't fully cleared up... if the fish is back to acting just like it was before you used the medication. If the fish is acting differently than before, let us know. If the same, then double check the instructions for your size tank, per the directions on the bottle and start a 2nd round of treatment.... and you may have to do a 3rd round since the time between the first round and now has been more than a day. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My sick swordtail Hi Lenny. Yes that is the same multi cure I used. I went to my lfs and explained to him the exact symptoms displayed on the Rasboras (the original culprits) And he handed me the multi cure, directed me to use 8ml for my size tank, and change the water after 3 days. If needed, repeat again until symptoms cleared I didn't repeat the dose a second time, because what ever it had been had apparently cleared up. 2 days later, I took the rasboras to my lfs for store cred. A day or so before I got the medication I added a tsp of salt to the tank. At this point I had 2 Glass catfish (both gone) 4 - 5 Harliquin rasboras (all gone) I still have. approx 4 cardinal tetras 2 BN catfish 1 male and 4 adult female guppies + fry 1 male and 2 adult swordtails + fry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46667	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

Hi \\Steve//   How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet again, with long links.   I noticed you use, http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx   Can you teach the rest of use how to use it?   Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to learn.   Bill --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:34 PM What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46668	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

I got it! Just go here: http://tinyurl.com/ Paste the long one in and it converts for you. Bill --- On Thu, 2/11/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 10:01 AM > Hi \\Steve// >   > How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet > again, with long links. >   > I noticed you use, http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx >   > Can you teach the rest of use how to use it? >   > Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to > learn. >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:34 PM > > > What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal > Government has > now announced they will close for the fourth day this week > (now surpassing > the record set today for number of days closed that was set > today) tomorrow > because of the amount of snow we have received in a few > days here in the DC > Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they > are still able > to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for > the amount of > snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. > > Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This > mini-aquarium can be > found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is > available for in > store pickup. They will also ship, but no international > rates are listed. > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump > _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 > > http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx > > If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can > also be had via > Micro Center via mail order at their website. > http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 > > http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >       > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46669	From: jimpat101	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Top tank support broke....

Need some help...The support on the top of the tank broke at the back. This is the support that holds up the two glass panels on either side. It is a 72 gal. bow front tank. Is it possible to fix it? I can take a picture and post it if that would help.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46670	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

I'm pretty sure \\Steve// uses Firefox as his browser and FF has a plug-in for TinyURL so it's easy to make a TinyURL when needed by clicking a button on the browser. I have FF also but still use Internet Explorer 8 (IE8) as my primary browser and IE8 does not have this TinyURL available so I have to make TinyURL's the long way (read on below for this method) NOTE: While plug-ins are really nice and there are hundreds, if not thousands of them available to FF users (and other browsers besides IE), each plug-in comes with certain security risks and some recent ones used by FF users actually contained trojans (malware that hides inside of another program like the "Trojan Horse" type scenario). I'm sure the TinyURL plug-in, IF created and maintained by the TinyURL people, is probably a good plug-in but be careful of other plug-ins with FF. I limit my own version of FF to only a few plug-ins, including the TinyURL, No-Scripts, Adobe Flash and a couple of others that I can't recall. I've seen other users who have dozens of plug-ins and these likely negate any of the security reasons that they may have started using FF. Mozilla reports that they have increased their own security screenings of all current and any new plug-ins to try and prevent this vulnerability in the future. Now... to answer your question. Go to http://www.TinyURL.com When on a page with a link that is LOOOONNNNGGGGGG, you can right click on the link and choose "Copy Shortcut" (or use the Edit Menu or use a Keyboard shortcut) or you can use your cursor to highlight the long link and then copy it and then paste the long link into the field provided on the TinyURL page and then click the "Make TinyURL" button. If it's a link that you will be giving out often, before clicking the "Make TinyURL" button, you can add your own final word(s) in the "Custom Alias (optional)" field right below. I've actually been planning on doing this for all of my blog articles so each of them would have their own Custom TinyURL with only one or two key words identifying the article.... but I haven't done it yet. It's on the list though. Depending on your computer's security settings, you may get a pop-up warning asking if you want to allow TinyURL access to your clipboard. You can either allow or disallow this. If you allow it, it will automatically copy the NEW TinyURL that you created to your clipboard and then you can paste it into the email or posting that you were working on. If you don't allow it, you can still copy the NEW TinyURL link from the TinyURL webpage and paste it to your work. For security purposes, since when you receive a TinyURL, you DO NOT know where it's going to bring you, I enable the Preview Feature http://tinyurl.com/preview.php so that whenever I click a TinyURL, it brings me to the TinyURL webpage and shows me the hidden LONG link so then I can choose to click the "Go To This Page" button if it looks like a legitimate website. Scammers and malware purveyors will use TinyURL's (ShortURL's, Bit.ly's, etc.) to hide the name of their real website so that users might click the TinyURL and end up on a nefarious website which might have one or more drive-by malware infections so that folks with insecure computers/browsers/software will get infected just by visiting an infected website. Of all of the various websites that offer similar features to TinyURL, TinyURL is the only one that offers this Preview Feature so it's the only one that I use. I rarely click on a shortened URL's from one of the other websites offering this shortening service since you would have no clue to where it's bringing you. I'm sure \\Steve// will add other helpful info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Hi \\Steve//   How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet again, with long links.   I noticed you use, http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx   Can you teach the rest of use how to use it?   Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to learn.   Bill --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:34 PM What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46671	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

Oops.. one more thing to add to my previous reply. While looking around the TinyURL website, I did see where they have a way of adding a TinyURL button to the Favorites Bar in IE. I did not show my Favorites bar in the past since it just added another toolbar to IE8 and I don't like a lot of toolbars or menu bars but I went ahead and did some maneuvering of other buttons, hiding words, etc. in order to add the TinyURL button to my browser's toolbar without adding another toolbar layer so hopefully, as I remember to use it, I'll be using TinyURL's more frequently in the future.... Although I still think it's important for folks to learn how to fix broken links... as the old Bible based saying goes... "Give a man a TinyURL and he'll surf for a day, teach a man to fix broken links and he'll surf for the rest of his life!" AMEN! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Hi \\Steve//   How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet again, with long links.   I noticed you use, http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx   Can you teach the rest of use how to use it?   Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to learn.   Bill --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:34 PM What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: Top tank support broke....

Are you talking about the middle brace that connects the front and back of the aquarium? OR... is it the back framing section itself that broke? A picture would be most helpful. In either case, yes, it can be fixed and I and I'm sure others will offer you some DIY fixes once we know exactly what broke and where and how badly it is broken. I'm presuming you have fish in the tank also... right? Let us know since that will affect any directions that I may give. A fix is usually available in either case, just let us know. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Top tank support broke.... Need some help...The support on the top of the tank broke at the back. This is the support that holds up the two glass panels on either side. It is a 72 gal. bow front tank. Is it possible to fix it? I can take a picture and post it if that would help.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46673	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: Top tank support broke....

Thanks, it's good to hear that there is a fix. It's the brace that holds the glass doors up. It cracked off the back lip of the top that it is attached to. I'll post a picture after work tonight. Yes, there are fish in the tank.. Jim In a message dated 2/11/2010 10:03:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Are you talking about the middle brace that connects the front and back of the aquarium? OR... is it the back framing section itself that broke? A picture would be most helpful. In either case, yes, it can be fixed and I and I'm sure others will offer you some DIY fixes once we know exactly what broke and where and how badly it is broken. I'm presuming you have fish in the tank also... right? Let us know since that will affect any directions that I may give. A fix is usually available in either case, just let us know. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:06 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Top tank support broke.... Need some help...The support on the top of the tank broke at the back. This is the support that holds up the two glass panels on either side. It is a 72 gal. bow front tank. Is it possible to fix it? I can take a picture and post it if that would help.. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46674	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: My sick swordtail

Lisa, After reading Lenny's most recent reply to you and then scrolling down to reread the part of your thread that he was responding to, I'm reminded that you have Glass Catfish and Ancistrus (Bushy-Nose) Catfish -- both scaleless. It surprises me very much that your LFS sold you this Multi-Cure medication without ever asking you if you had any catfish (or loaches, etc.) since these fish are often killed by Malachite Green when it's used at normal dosage. We always recommend that whenever using this dye medication with scaleless fish, that it be used at no more than half-strength. I don't know how effective the Acriflavin in it would be against Velvet if used at half-strength though. This is all the more reason to try to find an Acriflavin-based medication if you could -- and then since this is also a dye medication -- to use this at 3/4 strength since you still need to even be careful of this with scaleless fish even though it's not nearly as toxic to these fish as is Malachite Green. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46675	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: OT: TinyURL [WAS RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium]

TinyURL is a way to reduce the size of your links and prevent the wrapping of them onto another line, which many e-mail readers cannot handle properly as a full link, causing the end user to copy and paste the whole link to get to the referred site. I am under the impression that TinyURL was the first of these services. Now there are others that provide the same service, such as http://www.bit.ly I've been using TinyURL for years now, and have not really tried any of the others. For those of you who may not understand the acronyms I use, I'll try to remember to list them here for you: URL is short for Uniform Resource Locator. This is a way we use to refer to the web address of a site. For example, www.yahoo.com is a URL. A more complete version of it would be http://www.Yahoo.com WWW is simply a server name, or, more correctly a resource name. It is an acronym for World Wide Web. Other resource names are also used. For example www.landoctor.com will take you to my company's web site, while mail.landoctor.com plus a slash and a directory name brings you to the mail server's web mail application for those granted access to it and so.landoctor.com brings you to another server hosting an application for our customers. HTTP means Hypertext Transfer Protocol which is the method used to get the web pages to your browser. HTTPS is the same but it uses SSL to encrypt the communication. SSL stands for Secure Sockets Layer, a method to encrypt the traffic passing between two computers to make it harder for someone to interpret the data passing through the Internet they may capture. TinyURL provides two methods to create the shortened URL. The first is what I will call the normal way, which includes the URL for TinyURL followed by a slash and a cryptic code. The entire URL is only 25 characters long. The other method is the Preview mode, which, when clicked, brings you to the TinyURL site and presents the full URL of the page that the code represents. You can then go to that page from there, if you wish. I normally use Firefox as my browser of choice. For those of you who use Firefox, there is an add-on that allows you to create a TinyURL with a single click of a button, and a paste into an e-mail. Just go to Tools on your menu bar, and select add-ons. When the window opens, search for TinyURL. There are a few that will be listed. The one I use is TinyURL Generator. Select it and install it, and you are done, and can create a TinyURL from any page you have open and is the focus of your browser. If you are using IE, go to http://tinyurl.com/#toolbar and follow the directions to add a button for TinyURL to your Internet Explorer. Everyone should be using IE8 by now, so you will need to right click on the link and select add to favorites, then select the favorites bar so the button is always available to you. When you click on the button, you will be taken to the TinyURL site to finish creating the TinyURL to use, which you will then copy and paste to your e-mail. Any computer running XP or later as your Operating System (OS) will support IE8. It can be downloaded from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/results.aspx?freetext=IE+8&displaylang =en&stype=s_basic TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/ylyktzv Just select the version appropriate for the OS you are running. If you are running an earlier OS than XP, you should replace your computer with one running Windows 7. I'd suggest the lowest version you get is Windows 7 Professional, skipping the home versions entirely, especially if you have a home network. The reason I suggest a new machine other than just a new OS is that there is no direct upgrade path from an OS other than Vista plus a machine running an OS prior to XP is not likely to have enough CPU power and/or memory to run Windows 7 adequately. Those with XP machines should run the Windows 7 Advisor software to see how your machine stacks up for Windows 7. That software can also be found at the Microsoft download site, you can use the link above, and just type in Windows 7 Advisor in the search box to find the software. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Hi \\Steve//   How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet again, with long links.   I noticed you use, http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx   Can you teach the rest of use how to use it?   Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to learn.   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46676	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

Lenny, Those two Firefox add-ons registered a false positive during the Mozilla check. Mozilla has now upgraded their process to help prevent this kind of scare in the future. For everyone, don't just rely on one anti-virus software package to catch any and all malware. At regular intervals, use an online scanner from a different vendor than you’ A/V software to scan your machine for malware. The real penalty in using add-ons to your browsers is the penalty exacted in memory usage and browser speed. See my post just finished prior to this one, about the add-ons available for TinyURL. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium I'm pretty sure \\Steve// uses Firefox as his browser and FF has a plug-in for TinyURL so it's easy to make a TinyURL when needed by clicking a button on the browser. I have FF also but still use Internet Explorer 8 (IE8) as my primary browser and IE8 does not have this TinyURL available so I have to make TinyURL's the long way (read on below for this method) NOTE: While plug-ins are really nice and there are hundreds, if not thousands of them available to FF users (and other browsers besides IE), each plug-in comes with certain security risks and some recent ones used by FF users actually contained trojans (malware that hides inside of another program like the "Trojan Horse" type scenario). I'm sure the TinyURL plug-in, IF created and maintained by the TinyURL people, is probably a good plug-in but be careful of other plug-ins with FF. I limit my own version of FF to only a few plug-ins, including the TinyURL, No-Scripts, Adobe Flash and a couple of others that I can't recall. I've seen other users who have dozens of plug-ins and these likely negate any of the security reasons that they may have started using FF. Mozilla reports that they have increased their own security screenings of all current and any new plug-ins to try and prevent this vulnerability in the future. Now... to answer your question. Go to http://www.TinyURL.com When on a page with a link that is LOOOONNNNGGGGGG, you can right click on the link and choose "Copy Shortcut" (or use the Edit Menu or use a Keyboard shortcut) or you can use your cursor to highlight the long link and then copy it and then paste the long link into the field provided on the TinyURL page and then click the "Make TinyURL" button. If it's a link that you will be giving out often, before clicking the "Make TinyURL" button, you can add your own final word(s) in the "Custom Alias (optional)" field right below. I've actually been planning on doing this for all of my blog articles so each of them would have their own Custom TinyURL with only one or two key words identifying the article.... but I haven't done it yet. It's on the list though. Depending on your computer's security settings, you may get a pop-up warning asking if you want to allow TinyURL access to your clipboard. You can either allow or disallow this. If you allow it, it will automatically copy the NEW TinyURL that you created to your clipboard and then you can paste it into the email or posting that you were working on. If you don't allow it, you can still copy the NEW TinyURL link from the TinyURL webpage and paste it to your work. For security purposes, since when you receive a TinyURL, you DO NOT know where it's going to bring you, I enable the Preview Feature http://tinyurl.com/preview.php so that whenever I click a TinyURL, it brings me to the TinyURL webpage and shows me the hidden LONG link so then I can choose to click the "Go To This Page" button if it looks like a legitimate website. Scammers and malware purveyors will use TinyURL's (ShortURL's, Bit.ly's, etc.) to hide the name of their real website so that users might click the TinyURL and end up on a nefarious website which might have one or more drive-by malware infections so that folks with insecure computers/browsers/software will get infected just by visiting an infected website. Of all of the various websites that offer similar features to TinyURL, TinyURL is the only one that offers this Preview Feature so it's the only one that I use. I rarely click on a shortened URL's from one of the other websites offering this shortening service since you would have no clue to where it's bringing you. I'm sure \\Steve// will add other helpful info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Hi \\Steve//   How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet again, with long links.   I noticed you use, http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx   Can you teach the rest of use how to use it?   Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to learn.   Bill --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:34 PM What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46677	From: harry perry	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny

Where exactly is that verse located in the bible?. Harry --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 10:54 AM   Oops.. one more thing to add to my previous reply. While looking around the TinyURL website, I did see where they have a way of adding a TinyURL button to the Favorites Bar in IE. I did not show my Favorites bar in the past since it just added another toolbar to IE8 and I don't like a lot of toolbars or menu bars but I went ahead and did some maneuvering of other buttons, hiding words, etc. in order to add the TinyURL button to my browser's toolbar without adding another toolbar layer so hopefully, as I remember to use it, I'll be using TinyURL's more frequently in the future.... Although I still think it's important for folks to learn how to fix broken links... as the old Bible based saying goes... "Give a man a TinyURL and he'll surf for a day, teach a man to fix broken links and he'll surf for the rest of his life!" AMEN! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Hi \\Steve//   How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet again, with long links.   I noticed you use, http://tinyurl. com/yj2vaqx   Can you teach the rest of use how to use it?   Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to learn.   Bill --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:34 PM What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay. com.au/iFish- Mini-Tropical- Fish-Aquarium- Tank-w-USB- Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541 539QQcmdZViewIte mQQptZAU_ Pet_Supplies? hash=item33595c1 ee3 http://tinyurl. com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcen ter.com/single_ product_results. phtml?product_ id=0315783 http://tinyurl. com/ydqgmcv \\Steve// ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46678	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: TinyURL [WAS RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium]

And after those first few internet definitions (which I agree, folks should know), I'm sure many are seeing the new acronym, HUH, which, in this case, stands for.... HUH??? Often accompanied by a bald spot on the top of one's head from the associated scratching that goes along with HUH??? LOL Other instances of the acronym, HUH, can be found here... http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/HUH I'm leaving out V.P. Joe Biden's explanation of a URL but if you Google, "Website Number", you should find it. Ooops.. I guess I just gave his explanation. ;-) And, on being fair and balanced, Pres. Bush referred to "internets" and Senator Stevens (R-AK) referred to the internet "as a series a tubes". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 1:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: OT: TinyURL [WAS RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium] TinyURL is a way to reduce the size of your links and prevent the wrapping of them onto another line, which many e-mail readers cannot handle properly as a full link, causing the end user to copy and paste the whole link to get to the referred site. I am under the impression that TinyURL was the first of these services. Now there are others that provide the same service, such as http://www.bit.ly I've been using TinyURL for years now, and have not really tried any of the others. For those of you who may not understand the acronyms I use, I'll try to remember to list them here for you: URL is short for Uniform Resource Locator. This is a way we use to refer to the web address of a site. For example, www.yahoo.com is a URL. A more complete version of it would be http://www.Yahoo.com WWW is simply a server name, or, more correctly a resource name. It is an acronym for World Wide Web. Other resource names are also used. For example www.landoctor.com will take you to my company's web site, while mail.landoctor.com plus a slash and a directory name brings you to the mail server's web mail application for those granted access to it and so.landoctor.com brings you to another server hosting an application for our customers. HTTP means Hypertext Transfer Protocol which is the method used to get the web pages to your browser. HTTPS is the same but it uses SSL to encrypt the communication. SSL stands for Secure Sockets Layer, a method to encrypt the traffic passing between two computers to make it harder for someone to interpret the data passing through the Internet they may capture. TinyURL provides two methods to create the shortened URL. The first is what I will call the normal way, which includes the URL for TinyURL followed by a slash and a cryptic code. The entire URL is only 25 characters long. The other method is the Preview mode, which, when clicked, brings you to the TinyURL site and presents the full URL of the page that the code represents. You can then go to that page from there, if you wish. I normally use Firefox as my browser of choice. For those of you who use Firefox, there is an add-on that allows you to create a TinyURL with a single click of a button, and a paste into an e-mail. Just go to Tools on your menu bar, and select add-ons. When the window opens, search for TinyURL. There are a few that will be listed. The one I use is TinyURL Generator. Select it and install it, and you are done, and can create a TinyURL from any page you have open and is the focus of your browser. If you are using IE, go to http://tinyurl.com/#toolbar and follow the directions to add a button for TinyURL to your Internet Explorer. Everyone should be using IE8 by now, so you will need to right click on the link and select add to favorites, then select the favorites bar so the button is always available to you. When you click on the button, you will be taken to the TinyURL site to finish creating the TinyURL to use, which you will then copy and paste to your e-mail. Any computer running XP or later as your Operating System (OS) will support IE8. It can be downloaded from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/results.aspx?freetext=IE+8&displaylang =en&stype=s_basic TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/ylyktzv Just select the version appropriate for the OS you are running. If you are running an earlier OS than XP, you should replace your computer with one running Windows 7. I'd suggest the lowest version you get is Windows 7 Professional, skipping the home versions entirely, especially if you have a home network. The reason I suggest a new machine other than just a new OS is that there is no direct upgrade path from an OS other than Vista plus a machine running an OS prior to XP is not likely to have enough CPU power and/or memory to run Windows 7 adequately. Those with XP machines should run the Windows 7 Advisor software to see how your machine stacks up for Windows 7. That software can also be found at the Microsoft download site, you can use the link above, and just type in Windows 7 Advisor in the search box to find the software. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Hi \\Steve//   How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet again, with long links.   I noticed you use, http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx   Can you teach the rest of use how to use it?   Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to learn.   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46679	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium

I hadn't heard of the "false positive" report so I just did a Google and I see where Mozilla/Firefox is recanting their earlier announcement that they were real trojans and are now calling them false positives but according to Mozilla's blog, updated on 02/09, one of the add-ons is being called a false positive but the other one is still classified as a trojan. I need to keep up with reading my computer security newsletters. I'm a few weeks behind. :-P Thanks for the update but I still stand by my assertion that the more 3rd party applications that one runs on their browser, the more likely hackers will find holes to attack. The same thing is happening with iPhone and other smart-phone apps. http://blog.mozilla.com/addons/2010/02/09/update-on-the-amo-security-issue/ - "Last week, we disclosed two instances of suspected malware in experimental add-ons on AMO. Since that disclosure, we’ve worked with security experts and add-on developers to determine that the suspected trojan in Version 4.0 of Sothink Video Downloader was a false positive and the extension does not include malware. The same investigation also confirmed that the Master Filer extension included a valid instance of a trojan." The original report of the trojans, on 2/4, is here: http://blog.mozilla.com/addons/2010/02/04/please-read-security-issue-on-amo/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 1:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Lenny, Those two Firefox add-ons registered a false positive during the Mozilla check. Mozilla has now upgraded their process to help prevent this kind of scare in the future. For everyone, don't just rely on one anti-virus software package to catch any and all malware. At regular intervals, use an online scanner from a different vendor than you’ A/V software to scan your machine for malware. The real penalty in using add-ons to your browsers is the penalty exacted in memory usage and browser speed. See my post just finished prior to this one, about the add-ons available for TinyURL. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium I'm pretty sure \\Steve// uses Firefox as his browser and FF has a plug-in for TinyURL so it's easy to make a TinyURL when needed by clicking a button on the browser. I have FF also but still use Internet Explorer 8 (IE8) as my primary browser and IE8 does not have this TinyURL available so I have to make TinyURL's the long way (read on below for this method) NOTE: While plug-ins are really nice and there are hundreds, if not thousands of them available to FF users (and other browsers besides IE), each plug-in comes with certain security risks and some recent ones used by FF users actually contained trojans (malware that hides inside of another program like the "Trojan Horse" type scenario). I'm sure the TinyURL plug-in, IF created and maintained by the TinyURL people, is probably a good plug-in but be careful of other plug-ins with FF. I limit my own version of FF to only a few plug-ins, including the TinyURL, No-Scripts, Adobe Flash and a couple of others that I can't recall. I've seen other users who have dozens of plug-ins and these likely negate any of the security reasons that they may have started using FF. Mozilla reports that they have increased their own security screenings of all current and any new plug-ins to try and prevent this vulnerability in the future. Now... to answer your question. Go to http://www.TinyURL.com When on a page with a link that is LOOOONNNNGGGGGG, you can right click on the link and choose "Copy Shortcut" (or use the Edit Menu or use a Keyboard shortcut) or you can use your cursor to highlight the long link and then copy it and then paste the long link into the field provided on the TinyURL page and then click the "Make TinyURL" button. If it's a link that you will be giving out often, before clicking the "Make TinyURL" button, you can add your own final word(s) in the "Custom Alias (optional)" field right below. I've actually been planning on doing this for all of my blog articles so each of them would have their own Custom TinyURL with only one or two key words identifying the article.... but I haven't done it yet. It's on the list though. Depending on your computer's security settings, you may get a pop-up warning asking if you want to allow TinyURL access to your clipboard. You can either allow or disallow this. If you allow it, it will automatically copy the NEW TinyURL that you created to your clipboard and then you can paste it into the email or posting that you were working on. If you don't allow it, you can still copy the NEW TinyURL link from the TinyURL webpage and paste it to your work. For security purposes, since when you receive a TinyURL, you DO NOT know where it's going to bring you, I enable the Preview Feature http://tinyurl.com/preview.php so that whenever I click a TinyURL, it brings me to the TinyURL webpage and shows me the hidden LONG link so then I can choose to click the "Go To This Page" button if it looks like a legitimate website. Scammers and malware purveyors will use TinyURL's (ShortURL's, Bit.ly's, etc.) to hide the name of their real website so that users might click the TinyURL and end up on a nefarious website which might have one or more drive-by malware infections so that folks with insecure computers/browsers/software will get infected just by visiting an infected website. Of all of the various websites that offer similar features to TinyURL, TinyURL is the only one that offers this Preview Feature so it's the only one that I use. I rarely click on a shortened URL's from one of the other websites offering this shortening service since you would have no clue to where it's bringing you. I'm sure \\Steve// will add other helpful info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Hi \\Steve//   How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet again, with long links.   I noticed you use, http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx   Can you teach the rest of use how to use it?   Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to learn.   Bill --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:34 PM What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/iFish-Mini-Tropical-Fish-Aquarium-Tank-w-USB-Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541539QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Pet_Supplies?hash=item33595c1ee3 http://tinyurl.com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0315783 http://tinyurl.com/ydqgmcv \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny

Lenny 1:1 in the new unabridged, unverified, new-world-order non-Bible. ;-) LOL But.. in my defense, I didn't say it was a Bible verse, only a "Bible based saying"... but I was wrong about that too. :-\. Further research on the original saying reveals it is actually a proverb, either Chinese or Indian, depending on the source, most leaning towards Chinese proverbs. I'm not the only person who has made this mis-assumption. I guess many of us less-than-theologians presumed the fish proverb was related to Jesus' "fish" verses and his other Biblical teaching verses. This Catholic forum has some other funny uses of the proverb when someone was asking the same question about the origin of the saying/proverb. LOL http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=19760 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny Where exactly is that verse located in the bible?. Harry --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 10:54 AM Oops.. one more thing to add to my previous reply. While looking around the TinyURL website, I did see where they have a way of adding a TinyURL button to the Favorites Bar in IE. I did not show my Favorites bar in the past since it just added another toolbar to IE8 and I don't like a lot of toolbars or menu bars but I went ahead and did some maneuvering of other buttons, hiding words, etc. in order to add the TinyURL button to my browser's toolbar without adding another toolbar layer so hopefully, as I remember to use it, I'll be using TinyURL's more frequently in the future.... Although I still think it's important for folks to learn how to fix broken links... as the old Bible based saying goes... "Give a man a TinyURL and he'll surf for a day, teach a man to fix broken links and he'll surf for the rest of his life!" AMEN! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium Hi \\Steve//   How about a favor?  It seems Yahoo is having trouble, yet again, with long links.   I noticed you use, http://tinyurl. com/yj2vaqx   Can you teach the rest of use how to use it?   Thanks for the extra help,I'm sure we would all like to learn.   Bill --- On Wed, 2/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 11:34 PM What better way to spend yet another day snowed-in. Federal Government has now announced they will close for the fourth day this week (now surpassing the record set today for number of days closed that was set today) tomorrow because of the amount of snow we have received in a few days here in the DC Metro area. (More than 40" here). Never fear, however, they are still able to spend your tax dollars. We have also set a record for the amount of snowfall in a winter, set back in 1899. Back to the subject at hand, a USB mini aquarium. This mini-aquarium can be found on eBay Australia, with a full description and is available for in store pickup. They will also ship, but no international rates are listed. http://cgi.ebay. com.au/iFish- Mini-Tropical- Fish-Aquarium- Tank-w-USB- Air-Pump _W0QQitemZ220542541 539QQcmdZViewIte mQQptZAU_ Pet_Supplies? hash=item33595c1 ee3 http://tinyurl. com/yj2vaqx If Australia is a bit out of your normal travels, it can also be had via Micro Center via mail order at their website. http://www.microcen ter.com/single_ product_results. phtml?product_ id=0315783 http://tinyurl. com/ydqgmcv \\Steve// ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46681	From: Joseph	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

Well...following the general consensus here, tonight I moved the female. It actually went pretty smoothly. Among the the various rocks & caves, many of our cichlid tanks include PVC pipes as hiding places. The female zebra had a favorite spot in a 10" long, 3" PVC pipe near the front of the tank. I did a small amount of rearrangement of rocks on 1 end, the slipped 2 large nets into the tank. When she went into her "cave," I put a net at each end and lifted the pipe to the surface, and transferred the whole thing into a 1 gallon container with water from the tank. She's now settled into her own tank, and seems no worse for it. As best I can tell, she's still holding. Any further advice on what to watch for next would be most appreciated. Joe --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > If you have a spare tank, want to save the babies, and she has been holding > at least 7 days then you might want to move her. She is unlikely to be > overly stressed by being alone in a tank. > > > > Stripping is not necessary to save maximum babies, you can just remove her > once she spits them. If you don't know how long she has been holding I > would not strip since the babies could still be undeveloped. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Joseph > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again > > > > > > I am aware that they're mouth brooders and I've heard of people stripping > them - but we have NO idea how to do it. What I'm really getting at is that > we'd like to try to save as many babies as possible, and since I don't know > how long she's been holding, I'm wondering if we should try to move her > right away, or wait longer. Any thoughts? > > Joe & Tami > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > I was aware of them being mouth brooders, I was following the post and > > what had been said by Ray and a couple other people. > > If the person doesn't know how to strip the babies from their mouth then > > they may need info or help though, I've already saw people posting about > > stripping the eggs from the mom, just no one said HOW to do it ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > These are mouth brooders and it doesn't work the same way. The eggs are > > > picked up immediately as they are laid. An experienced mom will probably > > > not spit the eggs in the net. > > > > > > As long as the other fish are not harassing her in the main tank it's > fine > > > to leave her there for 18 days. Then either move her to a maternity tank > > > and strip the babies from her mouth, or let her spit naturally. At 18 > days > > > the fry should be free-swimming. > > > > > > She will eat the babies after a day or two following spitting them out, > so > > > remove her as well. Mbuna parental care lasts only until the babies are > > > spit, after that the parents will eat them. > > > > > > I do have survivor fry in my main tank, but it is not one-two from every > > > clutch...it is just one-two every couple of months. All the adult fish > > > will > > > eat the babies if possible. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:24 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red Top Zebra again > > > > > > I don't have the same kinds of cichlids that you do, but I can give my > > > own experience with egg laying Angel fish. My Angel's have only > > > successfuly had fry hatch once, and that was when they were in my large > > > 125 gallon tank with a bunch of other community fish. Ever since I moved > > > them to their own 55 gallon tank to themselves last year (to hopefully > > > keep them happier and the other fish happier since they're nasty little > > > guys, hehe), they have laid eggs several times since then but they have > > > never hatched since the very first time, and that first time they ate > > > all their babies right after they had hatched. It sounds like your > > > cichlids also seem to enjoy their larger tank as mine did, perhaps that > > > is the reason they laid eggs, or perhaps they feel more comfortable with > > > other fish around. It's hard to tell sometimes without trial and error. > > > I believe someone else posted that you could remove the female while > > > she's holding babies she may spit them out really quick (so you would > > > need to be very fast while scooping her out, probably with a cup rather > > > than a net as the babies would go through the net), or she may swallow > > > them as well if they are free swimming already. Also moving her to her > > > own "different" tank may stress her out as well and cause her to eat the > > > babies. Basically it comes down to whether you want the mom happy and > > > healthy or you want all her babies (as many as possible to live), if > > > you're okay with only "some" living by hiding in the tank then I would > > > suggest leaving her there. At least a few should survive as long as the > > > parents don't suddenly decide to eat the babies. > > > When you bought these fish the first time did the seller tell you their > > > tank setup they had for breeding them? Perhaps they were doing something > > > differently that was causing the fish to spawn a lot more often? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Joseph wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear up > > > > several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We bought > > > > her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we set > > > > out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite > > > > aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After some > > > > recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of other > > > > cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in > > > > the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on > > > > spawning (isn't that so often the way?). > > > > > > > > We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this is > > > > new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to > > > > save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week > > > > ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find her > > > > then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the tank, > > > > that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this > > > > point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are the > > > > fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any > > > > fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't > > > > 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, we > > > > would certainly mention that. > > > > > > > > Thanks again! > > > > > > > > Joe & Tami > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46682	From: Joseph	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Mold growth

I'm not entirely certain this is aquarium related, but I thought that if it is, someone in this group might be able to help. First, some background. We have approximately 40 aquariums throughout 2 floors and the basement of our home. About 25 of the 40 are in the basement. Over the last few weeks, we've been experiencing the growth of what seems to be mold and/mildew in areas throughout the house, primarily around windows and on ceilings. We have 2 dehumidifiers in use, 1 in the basement and 1 on the first floor. We have NO problem in the basement, but we do have difficulty in several rooms on the first and second floors. It does not necessarily seem to be in rooms where there are tanks. We're in Wisconsin, where the humidity outside is very dry this time of year. We did NOT see the problem during the summer, when the humidity outside was higher (but the house wasn't closed up, as it is now). Does anyone have any thoughts, experience with this, or ideas on what we can do? We're concerned both about the safety, and about damage to our home. Thanks! Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/11/2010
Subject: Re: Mold growth

I'm down in New Orleans where, due to the HIGH humidity, mold and mildew is a constant issue and after Katrina, we had more mold and wild, wacky and colorful molds than one could ever want to see. Some of the stuff would pass as art work. I'm sure if you Google Image Search - Hurricane Katrina Mold - you'll likely find thousands of photos, posted by homeowners, of the various outrageous mold growth created by the heat and humidity and closed up homes flooded but drained homes following Katrina. I'm certainly not an expert but I read tons and tons of info about mold in the months and year after Katrina since my company was involved in gutting out, sanitizing and rebuilding dozens of the flooded homes down here. I also attended several seminars put on by various government agencies and even a mold-remediation industry source, which was really trying to create hysteria to try and promote mold-remediation work for companies that specialized in this overblown industry, IMO. FEMA put out instructional white papers on what steps were sufficient for basic mold remediation, which was a basis for much of my reading. You can probably still find these papers/articles on FEMA's website. While some folks went overboard and hired major mold remediation companies to come in and "sand blast", using baking soda instead of sand, all of the gutted insides of their homes, FEMA directives and insurance companies only required us to use a commercial bleach with mildewcide and then spraying down the gutted interior to kill off the mold and disinfect the framing prior to starting the rebuilding process. The reason... mold and mildew will not grow if there is no source of moisture for them to grow, so as long as there is not a new flood, water leak, etc., the mold/mildew will not live. Even if homes are overly treated for mold/mildew, if there is a new flood or source of water, the mold is coming back, regardless of how many chemicals you sprayed on the stuff in the past. Technically, the dead mold/mildew could have simply been encapsulated by the new drywall and I'm sure many folks probably did just that but I did follow FEMA's guidelines for at least killing off any mold/mildew growing on the frame of a home prior to starting the rebuilding process. Encapsulation is a common technique used for many environmental issues, including lead based paint and asbestos. It's easier and less harmful to just encapsulate the stuff than it is to try and remove it which creates a BIG risk of making the harmful elements airborne where they become a bigger risk than if they are stagnant and encapsulated on or in a wall. All that said... What you are likely seeing is a direct result of high humidity inside your home (possibly due to the tanks but other reasons could also be a cause) and when this warm moist air, inside your home, comes close to your windows or other less insulated areas of your home, the warm air condenses on the colder surface and the condensation then creates a perfect breeding ground for mold. This is common down here in New Orleans, where as an older city without much of a winter, most homes are under-insulated and insulated windows are uncommon as well, since when they were built, most did not have any kind of modern air-conditioning so there was no cold air to keep in either. Some simple fixes for the problem areas are adjusting your window dressings (open the blinds, drapes, etc., so that there is more air circulation through the window well area. In fact, if you were to aim a fan at a window well, you will likely see NO condensation compared to if the air in the window well is more stagnant. We get lots of window condensation on the insides of older un-insulated windows and I've shown home owners that if they crack their blinds a little to allow for the air to circulate, most of the excessive condensation will go away and if they raise the blinds and open the drapes completely, it almost disappears completely. Considering that you are having some negative effects of high humidity in your home, if all of your tanks are NOT snugly covered, they should be, and this will substantially reduce the amount of humidity in your home. I've compared tanks, side-by-side, with one tank covered except for the openings needed for filtration, etc., and the other tank left completely uncovered and the uncovered tank will experience FAR MORE evaporation than a covered tank where the water will evaporate but then it condenses on the cover and drips back into the tank. I'm talking about an inch or more of water a week will disappear from an uncovered tank due to evaporation. Of course, I run my central air conditioning much of the year so the air in my home is dehumidified by the A/C system and this promotes a higher evaporation rate but a warmer home will also promote a higher evaporation rate until the air reaches a certain humidity and then the evaporation will slow down. You don't really have to worry so much about your health as mold and mildew is everywhere and the dangerous molds are very rare and are usually confined to and caused by inside the wall leaks that go on for extended periods of time, not from seasonal molds that come and go. Much of the fear-mongering about mold has been overblown. Proof of my thoughts are that I'm typing this email reply after spending hundreds of LONG days and nights inside of completely molded over homes and I'm still alive and never suffered any more health effects (colds, sinus issues, upper respiratory infections, etc.) than I have during any other year prior to Katrina. I've always had mild to moderate sinus issues and took generic Claritin on a daily basis prior to Karina and this is all I took during the months and years after Katrina, although I did have a 2-week long more serious upper respiratory issue during the winter of 2007 but I've had those kinds of issues, on occasion, all my life, so I can't attribute that particular incident to Katrina molds. While there certainly are legitimate cases of dangerous mold involving some homes, most of the hysteria is over blown by trial lawyers advertising for clients when it was a BIG fad type case to get into... before other types of cases came along, that you might see on TV nowadays... like Pharmaceuticals, Mesothelioma, 18-Wheeler accidents, etc... with the latest being Toyota. Although all of these types of cases have legitimate claims, the constant barrage of advertising makes them seem much worse to the viewing audience. Check out the below links, but don't allow certain words to overly worry you, since these pages are dealing with MAJOR mold/mildew issues from flooding, hurricanes, etc., not from the kind of issues you are seeing. Further, recognize that government agencies are going to err on the side of caution, oftentimes to the Nth degree, compared to what might really be necessary but here are a few sources of information. Also check out information put out by the insurance industry. http://www.fema.gov/rebuild/recover/mold.shtm http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=13146 http://www.fema.gov/pdf/rebuild/recover/fema_mold_brochure_english.pdf (PDF file) So much more to say but I'll await the replies of others and any other questions by you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold growth I'm not entirely certain this is aquarium related, but I thought that if it is, someone in this group might be able to help. First, some background. We have approximately 40 aquariums throughout 2 floors and the basement of our home. About 25 of the 40 are in the basement. Over the last few weeks, we've been experiencing the growth of what seems to be mold and/mildew in areas throughout the house, primarily around windows and on ceilings. We have 2 dehumidifiers in use, 1 in the basement and 1 on the first floor. We have NO problem in the basement, but we do have difficulty in several rooms on the first and second floors. It does not necessarily seem to be in rooms where there are tanks. We're in Wisconsin, where the humidity outside is very dry this time of year. We did NOT see the problem during the summer, when the humidity outside was higher (but the house wasn't closed up, as it is now). Does anyone have any thoughts, experience with this, or ideas on what we can do? We're concerned both about the safety, and about damage to our home. Thanks! Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46684	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

The new tank is cycled, right? She should have a pile of small rocks so she feels comfortable that her babies will have hiding places once spit. Helps prevent her holding too long. Just check every morning for babies. When you see them, return her to the main tank. Decide what you want to feed the fry and purchase it. They will live on crushed adult food, or thrive on a fry food like New Life Spectrum Grow. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again Well...following the general consensus here, tonight I moved the female. It actually went pretty smoothly. Among the the various rocks & caves, many of our cichlid tanks include PVC pipes as hiding places. The female zebra had a favorite spot in a 10" long, 3" PVC pipe near the front of the tank. I did a small amount of rearrangement of rocks on 1 end, the slipped 2 large nets into the tank. When she went into her "cave," I put a net at each end and lifted the pipe to the surface, and transferred the whole thing into a 1 gallon container with water from the tank. She's now settled into her own tank, and seems no worse for it. As best I can tell, she's still holding. Any further advice on what to watch for next would be most appreciated. Joe --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > If you have a spare tank, want to save the babies, and she has been holding > at least 7 days then you might want to move her. She is unlikely to be > overly stressed by being alone in a tank. > > > > Stripping is not necessary to save maximum babies, you can just remove her > once she spits them. If you don't know how long she has been holding I > would not strip since the babies could still be undeveloped. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Joseph > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again > > > > > > I am aware that they're mouth brooders and I've heard of people stripping > them - but we have NO idea how to do it. What I'm really getting at is that > we'd like to try to save as many babies as possible, and since I don't know > how long she's been holding, I'm wondering if we should try to move her > right away, or wait longer. Any thoughts? > > Joe & Tami > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > I was aware of them being mouth brooders, I was following the post and > > what had been said by Ray and a couple other people. > > If the person doesn't know how to strip the babies from their mouth then > > they may need info or help though, I've already saw people posting about > > stripping the eggs from the mom, just no one said HOW to do it ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > These are mouth brooders and it doesn't work the same way. The eggs are > > > picked up immediately as they are laid. An experienced mom will probably > > > not spit the eggs in the net. > > > > > > As long as the other fish are not harassing her in the main tank it's > fine > > > to leave her there for 18 days. Then either move her to a maternity tank > > > and strip the babies from her mouth, or let her spit naturally. At 18 > days > > > the fry should be free-swimming. > > > > > > She will eat the babies after a day or two following spitting them out, > so > > > remove her as well. Mbuna parental care lasts only until the babies are > > > spit, after that the parents will eat them. > > > > > > I do have survivor fry in my main tank, but it is not one-two from every > > > clutch...it is just one-two every couple of months. All the adult fish > > > will > > > eat the babies if possible. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:24 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red Top Zebra again > > > > > > I don't have the same kinds of cichlids that you do, but I can give my > > > own experience with egg laying Angel fish. My Angel's have only > > > successfuly had fry hatch once, and that was when they were in my large > > > 125 gallon tank with a bunch of other community fish. Ever since I moved > > > them to their own 55 gallon tank to themselves last year (to hopefully > > > keep them happier and the other fish happier since they're nasty little > > > guys, hehe), they have laid eggs several times since then but they have > > > never hatched since the very first time, and that first time they ate > > > all their babies right after they had hatched. It sounds like your > > > cichlids also seem to enjoy their larger tank as mine did, perhaps that > > > is the reason they laid eggs, or perhaps they feel more comfortable with > > > other fish around. It's hard to tell sometimes without trial and error. > > > I believe someone else posted that you could remove the female while > > > she's holding babies she may spit them out really quick (so you would > > > need to be very fast while scooping her out, probably with a cup rather > > > than a net as the babies would go through the net), or she may swallow > > > them as well if they are free swimming already. Also moving her to her > > > own "different" tank may stress her out as well and cause her to eat the > > > babies. Basically it comes down to whether you want the mom happy and > > > healthy or you want all her babies (as many as possible to live), if > > > you're okay with only "some" living by hiding in the tank then I would > > > suggest leaving her there. At least a few should survive as long as the > > > parents don't suddenly decide to eat the babies. > > > When you bought these fish the first time did the seller tell you their > > > tank setup they had for breeding them? Perhaps they were doing something > > > differently that was causing the fish to spawn a lot more often? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Joseph wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear up > > > > several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We bought > > > > her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we set > > > > out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite > > > > aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After some > > > > recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of other > > > > cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in > > > > the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on > > > > spawning (isn't that so often the way?). > > > > > > > > We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this is > > > > new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to > > > > save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week > > > > ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find her > > > > then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the tank, > > > > that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this > > > > point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are the > > > > fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any > > > > fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't > > > > 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, we > > > > would certainly mention that. > > > > > > > > Thanks again! > > > > > > > > Joe & Tami > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > digest@yahoogroups. <mailto:digest%40yahoogroups.com> com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > nomail@yahoogroups. <mailto:nomail%40yahoogroups.com> com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > normal@yahoogroups. <mailto:normal%40yahoogroups.com> com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46685	From: Joseph	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

Thanks for the tips. Yes, the new tank is cycled. In fact, it's an "old" tank that was just vacated by other cichlids. We have several appropriate food choices that we're using with other fry. We currently have both striped and pink convicts (we know the opinion some people hold of convicts, but we're very fond of them and have 1 large tank of "rescued" convicts), parrots, jewels, and firemouths. Thanks again! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > The new tank is cycled, right? She should have a pile of small rocks so she > feels comfortable that her babies will have hiding places once spit. Helps > prevent her holding too long. > > > > Just check every morning for babies. When you see them, return her to the > main tank. Decide what you want to feed the fry and purchase it. They will > live on crushed adult food, or thrive on a fry food like New Life Spectrum > Grow. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Joseph > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again > > > > > > Well...following the general consensus here, tonight I moved the female. It > actually went pretty smoothly. Among the the various rocks & caves, many of > our cichlid tanks include PVC pipes as hiding places. The female zebra had a > favorite spot in a 10" long, 3" PVC pipe near the front of the tank. I did a > small amount of rearrangement of rocks on 1 end, the slipped 2 large nets > into the tank. When she went into her "cave," I put a net at each end and > lifted the pipe to the surface, and transferred the whole thing into a 1 > gallon container with water from the tank. She's now settled into her own > tank, and seems no worse for it. As best I can tell, she's still holding. > > Any further advice on what to watch for next would be most appreciated. > > Joe > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, > Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > If you have a spare tank, want to save the babies, and she has been > holding > > at least 7 days then you might want to move her. She is unlikely to be > > overly stressed by being alone in a tank. > > > > > > > > Stripping is not necessary to save maximum babies, you can just remove her > > once she spits them. If you don't know how long she has been holding I > > would not strip since the babies could still be undeveloped. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Joseph > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again > > > > > > > > > > > > I am aware that they're mouth brooders and I've heard of people stripping > > them - but we have NO idea how to do it. What I'm really getting at is > that > > we'd like to try to save as many babies as possible, and since I don't > know > > how long she's been holding, I'm wondering if we should try to move her > > right away, or wait longer. Any thoughts? > > > > Joe & Tami > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com, > > Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > I was aware of them being mouth brooders, I was following the post and > > > what had been said by Ray and a couple other people. > > > If the person doesn't know how to strip the babies from their mouth then > > > > they may need info or help though, I've already saw people posting about > > > > stripping the eggs from the mom, just no one said HOW to do it ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > > > > These are mouth brooders and it doesn't work the same way. The eggs > are > > > > picked up immediately as they are laid. An experienced mom will > probably > > > > not spit the eggs in the net. > > > > > > > > As long as the other fish are not harassing her in the main tank it's > > fine > > > > to leave her there for 18 days. Then either move her to a maternity > tank > > > > and strip the babies from her mouth, or let her spit naturally. At 18 > > days > > > > the fry should be free-swimming. > > > > > > > > She will eat the babies after a day or two following spitting them > out, > > so > > > > remove her as well. Mbuna parental care lasts only until the babies > are > > > > spit, after that the parents will eat them. > > > > > > > > I do have survivor fry in my main tank, but it is not one-two from > every > > > > clutch...it is just one-two every couple of months. All the adult fish > > > > > will > > > > eat the babies if possible. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:24 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Red Top Zebra again > > > > > > > > I don't have the same kinds of cichlids that you do, but I can give my > > > > own experience with egg laying Angel fish. My Angel's have only > > > > successfuly had fry hatch once, and that was when they were in my > large > > > > 125 gallon tank with a bunch of other community fish. Ever since I > moved > > > > them to their own 55 gallon tank to themselves last year (to hopefully > > > > keep them happier and the other fish happier since they're nasty > little > > > > guys, hehe), they have laid eggs several times since then but they > have > > > > never hatched since the very first time, and that first time they ate > > > > all their babies right after they had hatched. It sounds like your > > > > cichlids also seem to enjoy their larger tank as mine did, perhaps > that > > > > is the reason they laid eggs, or perhaps they feel more comfortable > with > > > > other fish around. It's hard to tell sometimes without trial and > error. > > > > I believe someone else posted that you could remove the female while > > > > she's holding babies she may spit them out really quick (so you would > > > > need to be very fast while scooping her out, probably with a cup > rather > > > > than a net as the babies would go through the net), or she may swallow > > > > them as well if they are free swimming already. Also moving her to her > > > > own "different" tank may stress her out as well and cause her to eat > the > > > > babies. Basically it comes down to whether you want the mom happy and > > > > healthy or you want all her babies (as many as possible to live), if > > > > you're okay with only "some" living by hiding in the tank then I would > > > > suggest leaving her there. At least a few should survive as long as > the > > > > parents don't suddenly decide to eat the babies. > > > > When you bought these fish the first time did the seller tell you > their > > > > tank setup they had for breeding them? Perhaps they were doing > something > > > > differently that was causing the fish to spawn a lot more often? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Joseph wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to you both for the quick responses. I guess I should clear > up > > > > > several things. First, this female is NOT a first time mom. We > bought > > > > > her and a male who had spawned several times before. Initially we > set > > > > > out to get them to spawn, but without success. The male was quite > > > > > aggressive toward her, and we eventually had to rescue her. After > some > > > > > recovery time, we moved her into a larger tank with a number of > other > > > > > cichlids. We later added the male to the tank. They've been in > > > > > the tank together now for about six months. We had given up on > > > > > spawning (isn't that so often the way?). > > > > > > > > > > We just noticed today that she seems to be holding, but since this > is > > > > > new for us, I'm not at all sure how long it's been. We would like to > > > > > save the fry if at all possible. We had guests here just over a week > > > > > ago who were interested in the zebras, and we were unable to find > her > > > > > then to show them. Since there are numerous hiding places in the > tank, > > > > > that wasn't unusual. What do you think is our best chance at this > > > > > point - to try to move her right away, or wait? At what point are > the > > > > > fry viable on their own? For what it's worth, we've never sold any > > > > > fish and keep them purely for ourselves and our kids. Since we can't > > > > > 100% sure of parentage, if we would ever sell/give any of the fry, > we > > > > > would certainly mention that. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again! > > > > > > > > > > Joe & Tami > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important > > to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > > the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > digest@yahoogroups. <mailto:digest%40yahoogroups.com> com > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > nomail@yahoogroups. <mailto:nomail%40yahoogroups.com> com > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > > > where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > normal@yahoogroups. <mailto:normal%40yahoogroups.com> com > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46686	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny

Lenny, Maybe that "biblical" verse you've quoted was actually from Confucius (or was it, confusion?), or maybe from Charlie Chan. You know -- the Chinese-American detective which a bunch of movies were made about, going back some 50 years ago and which occasionally come up as reruns on late night TV. Or maybe it was Chairman Mao who said that ! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46687	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny

Gentlemen!   Although the legendary character was played by Warner Oland (1931 - 1938), Sidney Toler (1938 - 1947), Roland Winters (1947 - 1949).  It is probably Sidney Toler with whom you are thinking.  Also it should be noted that not one of the three actors mentioned was in fact actually Chinese!   Bill --- On Fri, 2/12/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:44 AM Lenny,  Maybe that "biblical" verse you've quoted was actually from Confucius (or was it, confusion?), or maybe from Charlie Chan.  You know -- the Chinese-American detective which a bunch of movies were made about, going back some 50 years ago and which occasionally come up as reruns on late night TV. Or maybe it was Chairman Mao who said that !  Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46688	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

If you have a spare tank (hospital/quarantine tank), as every hobbyist should, you could move the female to that tank after she spits out the fry -- with some rocks and her PVC cave for comfort -- and condition her up again on good foods for about a week before placing her back in the main tank. You should then move the fry from the 1 gallon tank to at least a 10 gallon (preferably even a 30, or at least a 20) to raise them as they won't do well in that small tank for very long. Even as it is, you'll probably need to do PWC's every other day while the female is in that small tank, as she's really overcrowding a 1 gallon tank -- at the very least, a 5 gallon tank would be much better for her since she may be in isolation for another 2 or 3 weeks. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46689	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny

Yep. I posted a reply last night acknowledging that it was a proverb, not a Bible verse. But, now that you mention Confucius, do you remember any of your favorite Confucius sayings... AS A KID??? This one popped into my head immediately. Confucius say: He who go to bed with itchy hiney, wake up with smelly finger. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny Lenny, Maybe that "biblical" verse you've quoted was actually from Confucius (or was it, confusion?), or maybe from Charlie Chan. You know -- the Chinese-American detective which a bunch of movies were made about, going back some 50 years ago and which occasionally come up as reruns on late night TV. Or maybe it was Chairman Mao who said that ! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46690	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny

That's what made them great actors!!! Unlike some of the actors who tried to portray a native New Orleanian and I do not believe even one had pulled it off accurately. They usually WAY overdo it with a southern accent and we do not have a southern accent in New Orleans. It's actually closer to New York due to the similar backgrounds of multiple immigrant/language influence on the accents of both cities. Of course, we're nicer down here but the accents similar. A "Get out of here" down here might be an excited reply to something that was said whereas in New York, they actually mean "GET OUT OF HERE!!!!". LOL WHO DAT!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny Gentlemen!   Although the legendary character was played by Warner Oland (1931 - 1938), Sidney Toler (1938 - 1947), Roland Winters (1947 - 1949).  It is probably Sidney Toler with whom you are thinking.  Also it should be noted that not one of the three actors mentioned was in fact actually Chinese!   Bill --- On Fri, 2/12/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:44 AM Lenny,  Maybe that "biblical" verse you've quoted was actually from Confucius (or was it, confusion?), or maybe from Charlie Chan.  You know -- the Chinese-American detective which a bunch of movies were made about, going back some 50 years ago and which occasionally come up as reruns on late night TV. Or maybe it was Chairman Mao who said that !  Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46691	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny

OR?   Forget About It!   Bill --- On Fri, 2/12/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 10:20 AM That's what made them great actors!!!  Unlike some of the actors who tried to portray a native New Orleanian and I do not believe even one had pulled it off accurately.  They usually WAY overdo it with a southern accent and we do not have a southern accent in New Orleans.  It's actually closer to New York due to the similar backgrounds of multiple immigrant/language influence on the accents of both cities.  Of course, we're nicer down here but the accents similar.  A "Get out of here" down here might be an excited reply to something that was said whereas in New York, they actually mean "GET OUT OF HERE!!!!".  LOL WHO DAT!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!!  SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!!  WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT?  WHO DAT?  NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny Gentlemen!   Although the legendary character was played by Warner Oland (1931 - 1938), Sidney Toler (1938 - 1947), Roland Winters (1947 - 1949).  It is probably Sidney Toler with whom you are thinking.  Also it should be noted that not one of the three actors mentioned was in fact actually Chinese!   Bill --- On Fri, 2/12/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] USB Mini Aquarium/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:44 AM Lenny,  Maybe that "biblical" verse you've quoted was actually from Confucius (or was it, confusion?), or maybe from Charlie Chan.  You know -- the Chinese-American detective which a bunch of movies were made about, going back some 50 years ago and which occasionally come up as reruns on late night TV. Or maybe it was Chairman Mao who said that !  Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46692	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Mold growth

You might have to do some detectvie work on this. Sometimes it's a plumbing leak, and if it's ceilings, problem could be a leak in the roof. I think that holes in the roof don't necessarily leak to directly under the hole. Also consider the possiliby of plumbing leaks. You can do some real detective work with food coloring. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph" <jlv_rt@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:23 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mold growth I'm not entirely certain this is aquarium related, but I thought that if it is, someone in this group might be able to help. First, some background. We have approximately 40 aquariums throughout 2 floors and the basement of our home. About 25 of the 40 are in the basement. Over the last few weeks, we've been experiencing the growth of what seems to be mold and/mildew in areas throughout the house, primarily around windows and on ceilings. We have 2 dehumidifiers in use, 1 in the basement and 1 on the first floor. We have NO problem in the basement, but we do have difficulty in several rooms on the first and second floors. It does not necessarily seem to be in rooms where there are tanks. We're in Wisconsin, where the humidity outside is very dry this time of year. We did NOT see the problem during the summer, when the humidity outside was higher (but the house wasn't closed up, as it is now). Does anyone have any thoughts, experience with this, or ideas on what we can do? We're concerned both about the safety, and about damage to our home. Thanks! Joe ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46693	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in Ebenezer's 2 gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the low 70's after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to keep it at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's cooler, I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 when I first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is warmer than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of time on the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper levels and sometimes sleeping on his heater. Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the smaller tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where it would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window where the tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom on the bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic tank, but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. So now atleast he has light. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46694	From: Joseph	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

I guess I didn't state some of that very clearly. The female is actually in a 10 gallon tank. We have a 1 gallon container that we just use for transport. We have 4 tanks (two 10-gallon, one 20-gallon, and one 30-gallon) that we use as quarantine tanks. We learned the hard way about failing to quarantine EVERY new fish. We're also in the process of setting up a new (to us) 135-gallon tank, which will result in some "shifting," so we anticipate having 2 open tanks - a 55 and a 40. If only we had a bigger basement! I appreciate all the advice and comments. I've kept fish for many years, but never had any success spawning cichlids (I was more of a livebearer and gourami person) until the last couple of years. Maybe something in the water? We use VERY few chemicals, really preferring to have the fish acclimate to our conditions, rather than trying to continually change the water chemistry. Thanks again - and the thoughts from this group are ALWAYS welcome! Joe & Tami --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > If you have a spare tank (hospital/quarantine tank), as every hobbyist > should, you could move the female to that tank after she spits out the fry -- > with some rocks and her PVC cave for comfort -- and condition her up again on > good foods for about a week before placing her back in the main tank. You > should then move the fry from the 1 gallon tank to at least a 10 gallon > (preferably even a 30, or at least a 20) to raise them as they won't do well in > that small tank for very long. Even as it is, you'll probably need to do > PWC's every other day while the female is in that small tank, as she's really > overcrowding a 1 gallon tank -- at the very least, a 5 gallon tank would be > much better for her since she may be in isolation for another 2 or 3 weeks. > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46695	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re, re my sick swordtail

I stated that i no longer have the glass catfish or the rasboras. But it must have not been posted.   Thanks guys. I'll have a closer look and see if the multi cure has malicite green.   Lisa   __________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and for free at PLUS7. www.tv.yahoo.com.au/plus7 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46696	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in Ebenezer's 2 > gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the > temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the low 70's > after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to keep it > at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's > cooler, > I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm > surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 when I > first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. > > The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is > warmer > than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of > time on > the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper > levels and > sometimes sleeping on his heater. > > Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the smaller > tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt > heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. > > Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed > together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where it > would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window where the > tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom on the > bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic > tank, > but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. So now > atleast he has light. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46697	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

For a 2G tank, even the 10W heater is overkill so apparently it's not really working properly. If it's under warranty, bring it back to the store. Heck, I didn't even know they had 10W heaters. The smallest I've ever purchased was a 25W heater. All that said, any QUALITY heater, 10W or higher, should keep the 2G tank at a constant temperature. 10W = 5W per gallon and that would be able to raise the tank temperature at least 15 degrees F over the ambient temperature. As long as the thermostat is working properly, the heater will turn off when it reaches the pre-set temperature. I'm still confused about the water in the tank being so cold though, with the room temp being in the high 70's to 80F. If you must keep the 2G tank in the window well area, I would just aim a small fan at the window well, so it's constantly circulating the warmer room air into the window well area, therefore no matter what the temperature is outside, the window well area will be the same temperature as the rest of the room. As long as the room temperature is kept in the high 70's to 80F, technically you don't even need a tank heater since the water will remain near room temperature. The little fan that would keep the window well at the same temp as the rest of the room would suffice and be more accurate and less costly than running a heater. Since you keep his water on the bathroom floor, and I'm presuming this is standing water that you have outgassing to be used for a future PWC, I would put that water into an area of the room so it's at a normal room temperature, as close as possible to the tank's temperature, instead of leaving it on the bathroom floor. A bathroom is usually a place that gets affected by hair spray, Lysol, other cleaners, etc., so it's not a great place to keep a fish or fish water. If the holding tank is closed, it's probably better but then if it's so cold in there, you would still have to take the holding tank into a warmer area of the home to be brought up to room temperature before using it for a PWC or you would be subjecting the Betta to too much of a temperature change with each PWC. Since cold air settles down near the floor as the warm air rises, you should put the holding tank up higher, at least level with how high his tank sits in the room, or higher if needed, until the holding tank stays around the same temp as the actual tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in > Ebenezer's 2 gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little > smaller.) But the temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid > 60's to the low 70's after I change it. The house is very warm - my > housemate tries to keep it at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's > in the window where it's cooler, I guess. The water for his tank lives > on the bathroom floor where I'm surprised it's only in the mid 60's, > and actually it was around 70 when I first put it in the tank. I do > have two thermometers in the tank. > > The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is > warmer than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair > amount of time on the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found > in the upper levels and sometimes sleeping on his heater. > > Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the > smaller tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the > ten watt heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. > > Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed > together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where > it would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window > where the tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the > livingroom on the bookcase where the routers are when he was in the > smaller all plastic tank, but it is dark there because my housemates > are allergic to light. So now atleast he has light. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46698	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall

Fish thinks it's working too; I found him asleep on top of it wedged behind the cord again! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:33 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? For a 2G tank, even the 10W heater is overkill so apparently it's not really working properly. If it's under warranty, bring it back to the store. Heck, I didn't even know they had 10W heaters. The smallest I've ever purchased was a 25W heater. All that said, any QUALITY heater, 10W or higher, should keep the 2G tank at a constant temperature. 10W = 5W per gallon and that would be able to raise the tank temperature at least 15 degrees F over the ambient temperature. As long as the thermostat is working properly, the heater will turn off when it reaches the pre-set temperature. I'm still confused about the water in the tank being so cold though, with the room temp being in the high 70's to 80F. If you must keep the 2G tank in the window well area, I would just aim a small fan at the window well, so it's constantly circulating the warmer room air into the window well area, therefore no matter what the temperature is outside, the window well area will be the same temperature as the rest of the room. As long as the room temperature is kept in the high 70's to 80F, technically you don't even need a tank heater since the water will remain near room temperature. The little fan that would keep the window well at the same temp as the rest of the room would suffice and be more accurate and less costly than running a heater. Since you keep his water on the bathroom floor, and I'm presuming this is standing water that you have outgassing to be used for a future PWC, I would put that water into an area of the room so it's at a normal room temperature, as close as possible to the tank's temperature, instead of leaving it on the bathroom floor. A bathroom is usually a place that gets affected by hair spray, Lysol, other cleaners, etc., so it's not a great place to keep a fish or fish water. If the holding tank is closed, it's probably better but then if it's so cold in there, you would still have to take the holding tank into a warmer area of the home to be brought up to room temperature before using it for a PWC or you would be subjecting the Betta to too much of a temperature change with each PWC. Since cold air settles down near the floor as the warm air rises, you should put the holding tank up higher, at least level with how high his tank sits in the room, or higher if needed, until the holding tank stays around the same temp as the actual tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in > Ebenezer's 2 gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little > smaller.) But the temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid > 60's to the low 70's after I change it. The house is very warm - my > housemate tries to keep it at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's > in the window where it's cooler, I guess. The water for his tank lives > on the bathroom floor where I'm surprised it's only in the mid 60's, > and actually it was around 70 when I first put it in the tank. I do > have two thermometers in the tank. > > The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is > warmer than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair > amount of time on the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found > in the upper levels and sometimes sleeping on his heater. > > Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the > smaller tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the > ten watt heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. > > Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed > together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where > it would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window > where the tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the > livingroom on the bookcase where the routers are when he was in the > smaller all plastic tank, but it is dark there because my housemates > are allergic to light. So now atleast he has light. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46699	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in awhile? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too > much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each > day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out > of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day > as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and > take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank > (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be > able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in Ebenezer's 2 >> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the low 70's >> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to keep it >> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >> cooler, >> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 when I >> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >> >> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >> warmer >> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >> time on >> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >> levels and >> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >> >> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the smaller >> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >> >> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where it >> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window where the >> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom on the >> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >> tank, >> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. So now >> atleast he has light. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46700	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall

It is warm to the touch. I got it from Fosters and Smith, be a pain in the neck to send it back. Noone around here carries 10 watt heaters. Do you really want to know how often I clean my bathroom with actual cleaners? Nooooooo. LOL. I'm a very low maintenance female. I don't use any spray stuff. No hairspray, lysol, any of that. At most a couple of squirts in the toilet. I do bring in buckets of water and set them in the bathroom to warm up and outgas, but the betta's water is prepared ahead of time and kept in gallon bottles by the bathtub. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:33 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? For a 2G tank, even the 10W heater is overkill so apparently it's not really working properly. If it's under warranty, bring it back to the store. Heck, I didn't even know they had 10W heaters. The smallest I've ever purchased was a 25W heater. All that said, any QUALITY heater, 10W or higher, should keep the 2G tank at a constant temperature. 10W = 5W per gallon and that would be able to raise the tank temperature at least 15 degrees F over the ambient temperature. As long as the thermostat is working properly, the heater will turn off when it reaches the pre-set temperature. I'm still confused about the water in the tank being so cold though, with the room temp being in the high 70's to 80F. If you must keep the 2G tank in the window well area, I would just aim a small fan at the window well, so it's constantly circulating the warmer room air into the window well area, therefore no matter what the temperature is outside, the window well area will be the same temperature as the rest of the room. As long as the room temperature is kept in the high 70's to 80F, technically you don't even need a tank heater since the water will remain near room temperature. The little fan that would keep the window well at the same temp as the rest of the room would suffice and be more accurate and less costly than running a heater. Since you keep his water on the bathroom floor, and I'm presuming this is standing water that you have outgassing to be used for a future PWC, I would put that water into an area of the room so it's at a normal room temperature, as close as possible to the tank's temperature, instead of leaving it on the bathroom floor. A bathroom is usually a place that gets affected by hair spray, Lysol, other cleaners, etc., so it's not a great place to keep a fish or fish water. If the holding tank is closed, it's probably better but then if it's so cold in there, you would still have to take the holding tank into a warmer area of the home to be brought up to room temperature before using it for a PWC or you would be subjecting the Betta to too much of a temperature change with each PWC. Since cold air settles down near the floor as the warm air rises, you should put the holding tank up higher, at least level with how high his tank sits in the room, or higher if needed, until the holding tank stays around the same temp as the actual tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in > Ebenezer's 2 gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little > smaller.) But the temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid > 60's to the low 70's after I change it. The house is very warm - my > housemate tries to keep it at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's > in the window where it's cooler, I guess. The water for his tank lives > on the bathroom floor where I'm surprised it's only in the mid 60's, > and actually it was around 70 when I first put it in the tank. I do > have two thermometers in the tank. > > The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is > warmer than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair > amount of time on the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found > in the upper levels and sometimes sleeping on his heater. > > Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the > smaller tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the > ten watt heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. > > Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed > together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where > it would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window > where the tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the > livingroom on the bookcase where the routers are when he was in the > smaller all plastic tank, but it is dark there because my housemates > are allergic to light. So now atleast he has light. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46701	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

I didn't mean light's not important, I just meant that the heating issues were more important than light, he would still live without sunlight for quite some time I'm sure, even if he wanted to see it ;) And yes I thought it was a 25 watt heater, so perhaps upgrading might help. What brand of heater is it? Amber Dora Smith wrote: > Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt > heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. > > Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in > awhile? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? > > > >> I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too >> much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each >> day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out >> of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day >> as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and >> take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank >> (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be >> able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. >> >> Amber >> >> Dora Smith wrote: >> >>> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in Ebenezer's 2 >>> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >>> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the low 70's >>> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to keep it >>> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >>> cooler, >>> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >>> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 when I >>> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >>> >>> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >>> warmer >>> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >>> time on >>> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >>> levels and >>> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >>> >>> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the smaller >>> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >>> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >>> >>> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >>> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where it >>> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window where the >>> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom on the >>> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >>> tank, >>> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. So now >>> atleast he has light. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Dora Smith >>> Austin, TX >>> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46702	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A 10W heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is plenty of heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should the heater ever get stuck in the ON position where it would easily heat the tank to 15 degrees F over room temperature, which, if the room temp is in the high 70's, would raise the water temp up into the 90's which would kill most home kept tropical fish, although a Betta might survive this since it could breathe surface air since the water would not be holding much O2 at that temperature. You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so I would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site and I do not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary manufacturer's pages. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd ) They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo but these do NOT have thermostats so they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees over room temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in awhile? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too > much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each > day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out > of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day > as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and > take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank > (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be > able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in Ebenezer's 2 >> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the low 70's >> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to keep it >> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >> cooler, >> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 when I >> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >> >> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >> warmer >> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >> time on >> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >> levels and >> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >> >> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the smaller >> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >> >> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where it >> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window where the >> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom on the >> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >> tank, >> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. So now >> atleast he has light. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46703	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323 This one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:04 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A 10W heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is plenty of heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should the heater ever get stuck in the ON position where it would easily heat the tank to 15 degrees F over room temperature, which, if the room temp is in the high 70's, would raise the water temp up into the 90's which would kill most home kept tropical fish, although a Betta might survive this since it could breathe surface air since the water would not be holding much O2 at that temperature. You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so I would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site and I do not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary manufacturer's pages. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd ) They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo but these do NOT have thermostats so they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees over room temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in awhile? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too > much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each > day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out > of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day > as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and > take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank > (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be > able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in Ebenezer's 2 >> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the low 70's >> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to keep it >> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >> cooler, >> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 when I >> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >> >> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >> warmer >> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >> time on >> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >> levels and >> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >> >> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the smaller >> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >> >> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where it >> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window where the >> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom on the >> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >> tank, >> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. So now >> atleast he has light. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46704	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

One of the marineland or stealth ones. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >I didn't mean light's not important, I just meant that the heating > issues were more important than light, he would still live without > sunlight for quite some time I'm sure, even if he wanted to see it ;) > And yes I thought it was a 25 watt heater, so perhaps upgrading might > help. What brand of heater is it? > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt >> heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. >> >> Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in >> awhile? >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >> >> >> >>> I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too >>> much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each >>> day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out >>> of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day >>> as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and >>> take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank >>> (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be >>> able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Dora Smith wrote: >>> >>>> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in Ebenezer's >>>> 2 >>>> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >>>> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the low >>>> 70's >>>> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to keep >>>> it >>>> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >>>> cooler, >>>> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >>>> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 when >>>> I >>>> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >>>> >>>> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >>>> warmer >>>> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >>>> time on >>>> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >>>> levels and >>>> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >>>> >>>> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the >>>> smaller >>>> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >>>> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >>>> >>>> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >>>> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where >>>> it >>>> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window where >>>> the >>>> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom on >>>> the >>>> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >>>> tank, >>>> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. So >>>> now >>>> atleast he has light. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Dora Smith >>>> Austin, TX >>>> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >>> You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >>> to >>> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >>> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >>> you >>> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >>> the >>> home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >>> which >>> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>> where >>> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >> to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >> on the home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >> replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46705	From: Joseph	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

We have fry! This evening, we discovered a small number of fry. I didn't really know what to expect, but they're MUCH larger than I'd have expected. There don't seem to be very many...I'm thinking maybe 15-20...but they're hiding so it's difficult to tell. It seems that the mother may still be holding some...we still see the chewing motion and it looks like something black and moving in her mouth. Would that be possible? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph" <jlv_rt@...> wrote: > > I guess I didn't state some of that very clearly. The female is actually in a 10 gallon tank. We have a 1 gallon container that we just use for transport. We have 4 tanks (two 10-gallon, one 20-gallon, and one 30-gallon) that we use as quarantine tanks. We learned the hard way about failing to quarantine EVERY new fish. We're also in the process of setting up a new (to us) 135-gallon tank, which will result in some "shifting," so we anticipate having 2 open tanks - a 55 and a 40. If only we had a bigger basement! > > I appreciate all the advice and comments. I've kept fish for many years, but never had any success spawning cichlids (I was more of a livebearer and gourami person) until the last couple of years. Maybe something in the water? We use VERY few chemicals, really preferring to have the fish acclimate to our conditions, rather than trying to continually change the water chemistry. > > Thanks again - and the thoughts from this group are ALWAYS welcome! > > Joe & Tami > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > If you have a spare tank (hospital/quarantine tank), as every hobbyist > > should, you could move the female to that tank after she spits out the fry -- > > with some rocks and her PVC cave for comfort -- and condition her up again on > > good foods for about a week before placing her back in the main tank. You > > should then move the fry from the 1 gallon tank to at least a 10 gallon > > (preferably even a 30, or at least a 20) to raise them as they won't do well in > > that small tank for very long. Even as it is, you'll probably need to do > > PWC's every other day while the female is in that small tank, as she's really > > overcrowding a 1 gallon tank -- at the very least, a 5 gallon tank would be > > much better for her since she may be in isolation for another 2 or 3 weeks. > > Ray</HTML> > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46706	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 2/12/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

I have zero experience with that particular mouthbrooder, but the ones I had ( Tilapia) mozambica, would spit out the fry and call them back in by a color change to come hide in mom's mouth. Maybe she is still protective of them, give her 24 hours. Enid ________________________________ From: Joseph <jlv_rt@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 13, 2010 12:12:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again   We have fry! This evening, we discovered a small number of fry. I didn't really know what to expect, but they're MUCH larger than I'd have expected. There don't seem to be very many...I'm thinking maybe 15-20...but they're hiding so it's difficult to tell. It seems that the mother may still be holding some...we still see the chewing motion and it looks like something black and moving in her mouth. Would that be possible? --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Joseph" <jlv_rt@...> wrote: > > I guess I didn't state some of that very clearly. The female is actually in a 10 gallon tank. We have a 1 gallon container that we just use for transport. We have 4 tanks (two 10-gallon, one 20-gallon, and one 30-gallon) that we use as quarantine tanks. We learned the hard way about failing to quarantine EVERY new fish. We're also in the process of setting up a new (to us) 135-gallon tank, which will result in some "shifting," so we anticipate having 2 open tanks - a 55 and a 40. If only we had a bigger basement! > > I appreciate all the advice and comments. I've kept fish for many years, but never had any success spawning cichlids (I was more of a livebearer and gourami person) until the last couple of years. Maybe something in the water? We use VERY few chemicals, really preferring to have the fish acclimate to our conditions, rather than trying to continually change the water chemistry. > > Thanks again - and the thoughts from this group are ALWAYS welcome! > > Joe & Tami > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > If you have a spare tank (hospital/quarantin e tank), as every hobbyist > > should, you could move the female to that tank after she spits out the fry -- > > with some rocks and her PVC cave for comfort -- and condition her up again on > > good foods for about a week before placing her back in the main tank. You > > should then move the fry from the 1 gallon tank to at least a 10 gallon > > (preferably even a 30, or at least a 20) to raise them as they won't do well in > > that small tank for very long. Even as it is, you'll probably need to do > > PWC's every other day while the female is in that small tank, as she's really > > overcrowding a 1 gallon tank -- at the very least, a 5 gallon tank would be > > much better for her since she may be in isolation for another 2 or 3 weeks. > > Ray</HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46707	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

Yes she still may be holding some, and yes she will scoop up the ones that are already out when you come near. Agree to wait 24 hours or maybe even 48 hours. Sometimes you end up having to strip what’s left anyway. Mbuna fry are the size of a grain of rice. 20 is a good number. If they have no yolk sac they can eat immediately. In fact feeding might encourage the mother to spit the rest and then you can grab her. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again We have fry! This evening, we discovered a small number of fry. I didn't really know what to expect, but they're MUCH larger than I'd have expected. There don't seem to be very many...I'm thinking maybe 15-20...but they're hiding so it's difficult to tell. It seems that the mother may still be holding some...we still see the chewing motion and it looks like something black and moving in her mouth. Would that be possible? --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Joseph" <jlv_rt@...> wrote: > > I guess I didn't state some of that very clearly. The female is actually in a 10 gallon tank. We have a 1 gallon container that we just use for transport. We have 4 tanks (two 10-gallon, one 20-gallon, and one 30-gallon) that we use as quarantine tanks. We learned the hard way about failing to quarantine EVERY new fish. We're also in the process of setting up a new (to us) 135-gallon tank, which will result in some "shifting," so we anticipate having 2 open tanks - a 55 and a 40. If only we had a bigger basement! > > I appreciate all the advice and comments. I've kept fish for many years, but never had any success spawning cichlids (I was more of a livebearer and gourami person) until the last couple of years. Maybe something in the water? We use VERY few chemicals, really preferring to have the fish acclimate to our conditions, rather than trying to continually change the water chemistry. > > Thanks again - and the thoughts from this group are ALWAYS welcome! > > Joe & Tami > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > If you have a spare tank (hospital/quarantine tank), as every hobbyist > > should, you could move the female to that tank after she spits out the fry -- > > with some rocks and her PVC cave for comfort -- and condition her up again on > > good foods for about a week before placing her back in the main tank. You > > should then move the fry from the 1 gallon tank to at least a 10 gallon > > (preferably even a 30, or at least a 20) to raise them as they won't do well in > > that small tank for very long. Even as it is, you'll probably need to do > > PWC's every other day while the female is in that small tank, as she's really > > overcrowding a 1 gallon tank -- at the very least, a 5 gallon tank would be > > much better for her since she may be in isolation for another 2 or 3 weeks. > > Ray</HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46708	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

Congratulations by the way! : ) _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 1:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again We have fry! This evening, we discovered a small number of fry. I didn't really know what to expect, but they're MUCH larger than I'd have expected. There don't seem to be very many...I'm thinking maybe 15-20...but they're hiding so it's difficult to tell. It seems that the mother may still be holding some...we still see the chewing motion and it looks like something black and moving in her mouth. Would that be possible? --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Joseph" <jlv_rt@...> wrote: > > I guess I didn't state some of that very clearly. The female is actually in a 10 gallon tank. We have a 1 gallon container that we just use for transport. We have 4 tanks (two 10-gallon, one 20-gallon, and one 30-gallon) that we use as quarantine tanks. We learned the hard way about failing to quarantine EVERY new fish. We're also in the process of setting up a new (to us) 135-gallon tank, which will result in some "shifting," so we anticipate having 2 open tanks - a 55 and a 40. If only we had a bigger basement! > > I appreciate all the advice and comments. I've kept fish for many years, but never had any success spawning cichlids (I was more of a livebearer and gourami person) until the last couple of years. Maybe something in the water? We use VERY few chemicals, really preferring to have the fish acclimate to our conditions, rather than trying to continually change the water chemistry. > > Thanks again - and the thoughts from this group are ALWAYS welcome! > > Joe & Tami > > --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > If you have a spare tank (hospital/quarantine tank), as every hobbyist > > should, you could move the female to that tank after she spits out the fry -- > > with some rocks and her PVC cave for comfort -- and condition her up again on > > good foods for about a week before placing her back in the main tank. You > > should then move the fry from the 1 gallon tank to at least a 10 gallon > > (preferably even a 30, or at least a 20) to raise them as they won't do well in > > that small tank for very long. Even as it is, you'll probably need to do > > PWC's every other day while the female is in that small tank, as she's really > > overcrowding a 1 gallon tank -- at the very least, a 5 gallon tank would be > > much better for her since she may be in isolation for another 2 or 3 weeks. > > Ray</HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46709	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again

Okay, that's a lot better -- using the 10 gallon tank for the female. The number of fry you see (15 -- 20), added to a number that she is apparently still holding is not unusual and is more like the norm. Mbuna can average anywhere between 20 to 25 fry, up to 60 or sometimes 80 fry but this depends on the size of the female and the size of the species in general. The larger Malawi mouthbrooders (Utaka) that roam in open water over sand may have up to 150 to 180 or so fry, but this still isn't a large number when considering similar sized substrate spawners will produce up to 4 or 5 times many. The difference is in the much larger size of the eggs, and subsequently the larger size of the fry when they first become free-swimming. As they're more advanced in size, and are being protected from predators at the first signs of danger by having the female parent holding them in her mouth for an extended period, they don't need to produce as many to continue the species. One couldn't expect the female to hold many more fry in her mouth anyway, unless it was first thought that they were much smaller. Finding additional room to entertain one's MTS (multi tank syndrome) is often the major drawback to expansion, even though many of us may find we never have enough tanks (LOL). Your plans for a 135 gallon sounds nice when considering it will make a great looking aquarium for the display of many more of these same kinds of fish. One other thing you may want to consider though, since you've now found that these fish will spawn for you under the conditions you're providing for them, is to possibly set up two or three somewhat smaller (60 -- 75 gallons, for instance) single-species-only tanks in place of a 135 gallon if you have any particular favorites -- and if you'd enjoy breeding these particular favorites. In this way, you'd know that in these tanks, there could no longer exist the possibility of them interbreeding. Good to see you restricting the use of chemicals. There are too many unneeded chemical products available in the aquarium hobby, and although there are a few that are beneficial, most of them can cause more harm than good and are just money-makers for some of these manufacturers, benefitting them at your expense. Mother Nature is not dumping all kinds of bottled junk in the lakes and rivers where these fish are found so that should tell you something (fish never evolved as a result of having chemical additives in their environment). Congrats on your new spawning, and continued good luck with them. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46710	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

Hmmmm.. didn't realize Marineland made that one. It doesn't actually have a thermostat but is pre-set at 78F so it should bring the water up to 78F and with 10W heater for a 2G tank, it should be able to keep the water at 78F as long as the room temp (or rather window well temp) is at least 63F. If the window well temp is less than 63F, then the heater will not be able to bring the bowl up to 78F. You need to measure the window well temp or use a fan positioned in a warmer section of the room to blow air towards the window well area so that the window well area is closer or equal to the room temp... then the heater should be able to do it's job properly. If it still isn't, then you could have a faulty heater. You could test it on a gallon of water positioned in the room where the temp is at least 70F and see if the heater raises the gallon of water to 78F. If it doesn't, then this would confirm that the heater is not working properly and you could contact F&S about having them send you a return shipping label (pre-paid by them) so you can return the heater for another one. If the replacement doesn't work either, then I'd try other brands or just use the fan idea that I gave you earlier to keep the window well area close to or equal to the 78F room temp in the first place and then you wouldn't even need a heater. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323 This one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:04 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A 10W heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is plenty of heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should the heater ever get stuck in the ON position where it would easily heat the tank to 15 degrees F over room temperature, which, if the room temp is in the high 70's, would raise the water temp up into the 90's which would kill most home kept tropical fish, although a Betta might survive this since it could breathe surface air since the water would not be holding much O2 at that temperature. You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so I would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site and I do not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary manufacturer's pages. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd ) They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo but these do NOT have thermostats so they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees over room temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in awhile? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too > much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each > day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out > of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day > as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and > take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank > (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be > able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in Ebenezer's 2 >> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the low 70's >> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to keep it >> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >> cooler, >> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 when I >> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >> >> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >> warmer >> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >> time on >> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >> levels and >> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >> >> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the smaller >> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >> >> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where it >> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window where the >> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom on the >> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >> tank, >> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. So now >> atleast he has light. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46711	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

I don't see how a fan blowing air across the room is going to sufficiently heat a window that is constantly losing heat... Seems like it would circulate the air in the room but wouldn't warm the window up too much, unless it's perhaps a double paned window (all of mine are cheap old single pane windows that lose a lot of heat). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Hmmmm.. didn't realize Marineland made that one. It doesn't actually > have a > thermostat but is pre-set at 78F so it should bring the water up to > 78F and > with 10W heater for a 2G tank, it should be able to keep the water at > 78F as > long as the room temp (or rather window well temp) is at least 63F. If the > window well temp is less than 63F, then the heater will not be able to > bring > the bowl up to 78F. You need to measure the window well temp or use a fan > positioned in a warmer section of the room to blow air towards the window > well area so that the window well area is closer or equal to the room > temp... then the heater should be able to do it's job properly. If it > still > isn't, then you could have a faulty heater. You could test it on a gallon > of water positioned in the room where the temp is at least 70F and see if > the heater raises the gallon of water to 78F. If it doesn't, then this > would confirm that the heater is not working properly and you could > contact > F&S about having them send you a return shipping label (pre-paid by > them) so > you can return the heater for another one. If the replacement doesn't work > either, then I'd try other brands or just use the fan idea that I gave you > earlier to keep the window well area close to or equal to the 78F room > temp > in the first place and then you wouldn't even need a heater. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? > > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323> > > This one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:04 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 > gallon? > > NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A 10W > heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is > plenty of > heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should the > heater ever > get stuck in the ON position where it would easily heat the tank to 15 > degrees F over room temperature, which, if the room temp is in the high > 70's, would raise the water temp up into the 90's which would kill > most home > kept tropical fish, although a Betta might survive this since it could > breathe surface air since the water would not be holding much O2 at that > temperature. > > You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so I > would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site and > I do > not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary manufacturer's pages. > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357> > 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd > <http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd> ) > > They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1> > 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo > <http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo> but these do NOT have > thermostats so they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees over > room temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what you > have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? > > Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt > heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. > > Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in > awhile? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? > > >I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too > > much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each > > day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out > > of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day > > as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and > > take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank > > (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be > > able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. > > > > Amber > > > > Dora Smith wrote: > >> > >> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in > Ebenezer's 2 > >> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the > >> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the > low 70's > >> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to > keep it > >> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's > >> cooler, > >> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm > >> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 > when I > >> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. > >> > >> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is > >> warmer > >> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of > >> time on > >> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper > >> levels and > >> sometimes sleeping on his heater. > >> > >> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the > smaller > >> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt > >> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. > >> > >> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed > >> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room > where it > >> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window > where the > >> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom > on the > >> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic > >> tank, > >> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. > So now > >> atleast he has light. > >> > >> Yours, > >> Dora Smith > >> Austin, TX > >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46712	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon?

Well, without air circulation, there can and will be stagnant areas of air in a room, especially like in a window well where the air adjacent to the window will be heated up or cooled down, depending on the outside temperature. Those areas are a much different temperature than other areas of a room... but with air circulation, it constantly mixes all of the various temperatures in a room to keep the entire room closer to an average temperature, whatever that may be. It's the same thing that a ceiling fan, on low speed, does by circulating the warmer air that rises back down to the rest of the room. On higher speeds, the moving air will actually cause us to feel cooler due to evaporation of the sweat off of our skin but at low speeds, it simply causes the entire room, floor to ceiling, to have a more average temperature. The same thing happens in our tanks. If there was no water movement, the water right around the heater would heat up and the heater would shut off, leaving the rest of the tank much cooler but by having the water moving around in the tank, the heater is heating up the water as it moves around so that the entire tank is heated up, not just the water adjacent to the heater. Insulated (double-pane) windows would not be as much of an issue with the window well being a lot cooler than the rest of the room due to the window's insulating capabilities but it will still be a little cooler than the air next to a fully insulated wall. I'm surprised you all don't have double-paned windows as part of the general construction of your igloos.... oops.. I meant homes. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? I don't see how a fan blowing air across the room is going to sufficiently heat a window that is constantly losing heat... Seems like it would circulate the air in the room but wouldn't warm the window up too much, unless it's perhaps a double paned window (all of mine are cheap old single pane windows that lose a lot of heat). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Hmmmm.. didn't realize Marineland made that one. It doesn't actually > have a thermostat but is pre-set at 78F so it should bring the water > up to 78F and with 10W heater for a 2G tank, it should be able to keep > the water at 78F as long as the room temp (or rather window well temp) > is at least 63F. If the window well temp is less than 63F, then the > heater will not be able to bring the bowl up to 78F. You need to > measure the window well temp or use a fan positioned in a warmer > section of the room to blow air towards the window well area so that > the window well area is closer or equal to the room temp... then the > heater should be able to do it's job properly. If it still isn't, then > you could have a faulty heater. You could test it on a gallon of water > positioned in the room where the temp is at least 70F and see if the > heater raises the gallon of water to 78F. If it doesn't, then this > would confirm that the heater is not working properly and you could > contact F&S about having them send you a return shipping label > (pre-paid by > them) so > you can return the heater for another one. If the replacement doesn't > work either, then I'd try other brands or just use the fan idea that I > gave you earlier to keep the window well area close to or equal to the > 78F room temp in the first place and then you wouldn't even need a > heater. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? > > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid= > 21323 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid > =21323> > > This one. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:04 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 > gallon? > > NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A > 10W heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is > plenty of heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should > the heater ever get stuck in the ON position where it would easily > heat the tank to 15 degrees F over room temperature, which, if the > room temp is in the high 70's, would raise the water temp up into the > 90's which would kill most home kept tropical fish, although a Betta > might survive this since it could breathe surface air since the water > would not be holding much O2 at that temperature. > > You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so > I would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site > and I do not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary > manufacturer's pages. > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps > /c/357 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/p > s/c/357> > 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd > <http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd> ) > > They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+ > 3743+1 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578 > +3743+1> > 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo > <http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo> but these do NOT have thermostats so > they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees over room > temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what you > have? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? > > Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 > watt heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. > > Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in > awhile? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? > > >I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating > >too much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn > >on each day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would > >move him out of the window as the temperature is bound to change > >throughout the day as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get > >a 50 watt heater and take out the heater you have in there and use > >it for the smaller tank (if/when you move him into that one again). > >A 50 watt heater would be able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. > > > > Amber > > > > Dora Smith wrote: > >> > >> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in > Ebenezer's 2 > >> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But > >> the temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to > >> the > low 70's > >> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to > keep it > >> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where > >> it's cooler, I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom > >> floor where I'm surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually > >> it was around 70 > when I > >> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. > >> > >> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top > >> is warmer than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a > >> fair amount of time on the bottom, especially at night, is now to > >> be found in the upper levels and sometimes sleeping on his heater. > >> > >> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the > smaller > >> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten > >> watt heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. > >> > >> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those > >> siliconed together things and there's no proper place to put it in > >> my room > where it > >> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window > where the > >> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom > on the > >> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all > >> plastic tank, but it is dark there because my housemates are > >> allergic to light. > So now > >> atleast he has light. > >> > >> Yours, > >> Dora Smith > >> Austin, TX > >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46713	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall

Well, when I got home tonight, one thermometer read 80 and the other 78, so I'm watching to see if it stays at that temperature. If it does then probably the heater isn't enough for the tank close to the window. It may have helped that last night I closed the window. It was open a crack because you close it and the latch comes down and keeps it from closing all the way. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? Hmmmm.. didn't realize Marineland made that one. It doesn't actually have a thermostat but is pre-set at 78F so it should bring the water up to 78F and with 10W heater for a 2G tank, it should be able to keep the water at 78F as long as the room temp (or rather window well temp) is at least 63F. If the window well temp is less than 63F, then the heater will not be able to bring the bowl up to 78F. You need to measure the window well temp or use a fan positioned in a warmer section of the room to blow air towards the window well area so that the window well area is closer or equal to the room temp... then the heater should be able to do it's job properly. If it still isn't, then you could have a faulty heater. You could test it on a gallon of water positioned in the room where the temp is at least 70F and see if the heater raises the gallon of water to 78F. If it doesn't, then this would confirm that the heater is not working properly and you could contact F&S about having them send you a return shipping label (pre-paid by them) so you can return the heater for another one. If the replacement doesn't work either, then I'd try other brands or just use the fan idea that I gave you earlier to keep the window well area close to or equal to the 78F room temp in the first place and then you wouldn't even need a heater. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323 This one. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:04 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A 10W heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is plenty of heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should the heater ever get stuck in the ON position where it would easily heat the tank to 15 degrees F over room temperature, which, if the room temp is in the high 70's, would raise the water temp up into the 90's which would kill most home kept tropical fish, although a Betta might survive this since it could breathe surface air since the water would not be holding much O2 at that temperature. You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so I would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site and I do not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary manufacturer's pages. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd ) They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo but these do NOT have thermostats so they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees over room temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what you have? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in awhile? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too > much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on each > day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out > of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day > as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and > take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank > (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be > able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in Ebenezer's 2 >> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the low 70's >> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to keep it >> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >> cooler, >> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 when I >> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >> >> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >> warmer >> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >> time on >> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >> levels and >> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >> >> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the smaller >> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >> >> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room where it >> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window where the >> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom on the >> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >> tank, >> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. So now >> atleast he has light. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46714	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall

Fan isn't going to happen. The housemates would go through the roof. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >I don't see how a fan blowing air across the room is going to > sufficiently heat a window that is constantly losing heat... Seems like > it would circulate the air in the room but wouldn't warm the window up > too much, unless it's perhaps a double paned window (all of mine are > cheap old single pane windows that lose a lot of heat). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> Hmmmm.. didn't realize Marineland made that one. It doesn't actually >> have a >> thermostat but is pre-set at 78F so it should bring the water up to >> 78F and >> with 10W heater for a 2G tank, it should be able to keep the water at >> 78F as >> long as the room temp (or rather window well temp) is at least 63F. If >> the >> window well temp is less than 63F, then the heater will not be able to >> bring >> the bowl up to 78F. You need to measure the window well temp or use a fan >> positioned in a warmer section of the room to blow air towards the window >> well area so that the window well area is closer or equal to the room >> temp... then the heater should be able to do it's job properly. If it >> still >> isn't, then you could have a faulty heater. You could test it on a gallon >> of water positioned in the room where the temp is at least 70F and see if >> the heater raises the gallon of water to 78F. If it doesn't, then this >> would confirm that the heater is not working properly and you could >> contact >> F&S about having them send you a return shipping label (pre-paid by >> them) so >> you can return the heater for another one. If the replacement doesn't >> work >> either, then I'd try other brands or just use the fan idea that I gave >> you >> earlier to keep the window well area close to or equal to the 78F room >> temp >> in the first place and then you wouldn't even need a heater. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >> >> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323 >> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323> >> >> This one. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:04 PM >> Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 >> gallon? >> >> NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A 10W >> heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is >> plenty of >> heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should the >> heater ever >> get stuck in the ON position where it would easily heat the tank to 15 >> degrees F over room temperature, which, if the room temp is in the high >> 70's, would raise the water temp up into the 90's which would kill >> most home >> kept tropical fish, although a Betta might survive this since it could >> breathe surface air since the water would not be holding much O2 at that >> temperature. >> >> You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so I >> would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site and >> I do >> not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary manufacturer's pages. >> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357 >> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357> >> 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd >> <http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd> ) >> >> They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, >> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1 >> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1> >> 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo >> <http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo> but these do NOT have >> thermostats so they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees over >> room temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what you >> have? >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >> >> Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt >> heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. >> >> Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in >> awhile? >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >> >> >I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too >> > much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on >> > each >> > day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out >> > of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day >> > as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and >> > take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank >> > (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be >> > able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. >> > >> > Amber >> > >> > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> >> >> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in >> Ebenezer's 2 >> >> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >> >> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the >> low 70's >> >> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to >> keep it >> >> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >> >> cooler, >> >> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >> >> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 >> when I >> >> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >> >> >> >> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >> >> warmer >> >> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >> >> time on >> >> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >> >> levels and >> >> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >> >> >> >> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the >> smaller >> >> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >> >> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >> >> >> >> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >> >> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room >> where it >> >> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window >> where the >> >> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom >> on the >> >> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >> >> tank, >> >> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. >> So now >> >> atleast he has light. >> >> >> >> Yours, >> >> Dora Smith >> >> Austin, TX >> >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46715	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall

To have a small desktop type fan, oscillating type, but probably better if the oscillation is turned off/locked and aimed at the window well would cause issues with your roomies? It's time for you to go postal on them... or U. of AL professor on them... whichever you prefer. >:-}> You other option is to move his tank to a less temperature volatile area of the house. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 7:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? Fan isn't going to happen. The housemates would go through the roof. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >I don't see how a fan blowing air across the room is going to > sufficiently heat a window that is constantly losing heat... Seems like > it would circulate the air in the room but wouldn't warm the window up > too much, unless it's perhaps a double paned window (all of mine are > cheap old single pane windows that lose a lot of heat). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> Hmmmm.. didn't realize Marineland made that one. It doesn't actually >> have a >> thermostat but is pre-set at 78F so it should bring the water up to >> 78F and >> with 10W heater for a 2G tank, it should be able to keep the water at >> 78F as >> long as the room temp (or rather window well temp) is at least 63F. If >> the >> window well temp is less than 63F, then the heater will not be able to >> bring >> the bowl up to 78F. You need to measure the window well temp or use a fan >> positioned in a warmer section of the room to blow air towards the window >> well area so that the window well area is closer or equal to the room >> temp... then the heater should be able to do it's job properly. If it >> still >> isn't, then you could have a faulty heater. You could test it on a gallon >> of water positioned in the room where the temp is at least 70F and see if >> the heater raises the gallon of water to 78F. If it doesn't, then this >> would confirm that the heater is not working properly and you could >> contact >> F&S about having them send you a return shipping label (pre-paid by >> them) so >> you can return the heater for another one. If the replacement doesn't >> work >> either, then I'd try other brands or just use the fan idea that I gave >> you >> earlier to keep the window well area close to or equal to the 78F room >> temp >> in the first place and then you wouldn't even need a heater. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >> >> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323 >> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323 > >> >> This one. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:04 PM >> Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 >> gallon? >> >> NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A 10W >> heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is >> plenty of >> heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should the >> heater ever >> get stuck in the ON position where it would easily heat the tank to 15 >> degrees F over room temperature, which, if the room temp is in the high >> 70's, would raise the water temp up into the 90's which would kill >> most home >> kept tropical fish, although a Betta might survive this since it could >> breathe surface air since the water would not be holding much O2 at that >> temperature. >> >> You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so I >> would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site and >> I do >> not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary manufacturer's pages. >> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357 >> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/35 7> >> 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd >> <http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd> ) >> >> They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, >> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1 >> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+ 1> >> 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo >> <http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo> but these do NOT have >> thermostats so they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees over >> room temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what you >> have? >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >> >> Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt >> heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. >> >> Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in >> awhile? >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >> >> >I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too >> > much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on >> > each >> > day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out >> > of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day >> > as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and >> > take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank >> > (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be >> > able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. >> > >> > Amber >> > >> > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> >> >> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in >> Ebenezer's 2 >> >> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >> >> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the >> low 70's >> >> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to >> keep it >> >> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >> >> cooler, >> >> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >> >> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 >> when I >> >> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >> >> >> >> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >> >> warmer >> >> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >> >> time on >> >> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >> >> levels and >> >> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >> >> >> >> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the >> smaller >> >> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >> >> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >> >> >> >> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >> >> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room >> where it >> >> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window >> where the >> >> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom >> on the >> >> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >> >> tank, >> >> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. >> So now >> >> atleast he has light. >> >> >> >> Yours, >> >> Dora Smith >> >> Austin, TX >> >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46716	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/13/2010
Subject: Filter for new ram fry tank

I have the filter here called oxygen 2: http://www.aquacave.com/azoo- oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html# Should I use this for my new 20 long when I transfer the babies into it? Or should I switch over to a hang on back after a week or so? Will this sponge filter be enough for a 20 long? I also have a nano red sea filter, but that's definitely not enough filtration, so was thinking to switch to a HOB after a week or two of using BOTH the sponge filter by Azoo and the HOB to set up the biofilter in the 20long. Thanks for any recommendations... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46717	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank

Lainey, Your Oxygen 2 filter is not familiar to me (and your link brings up a page on my 'puter that says "The page cannot be found"). In any case, if you are presently using this filter, yes you'll first need a method of maintaining a cycle in your 20 gallon when you switch everything over and this sponge filter would be just the thing until another filter can get established; it will not be good for long-term though as the fish continue to grow. These fry should be large enough by now to be able to safely use an HOB filter with them, and I see nothing wrong with using one as you'll need a better filter set up to handle the increasing bioload. This HOB filter will not be cycled in a week's time though, so you'll need to keep both filters running for a longer while. If you were transferring a portion of filter media directly from an established filter into this new HOB filter, it would dramatically speed up things, but with this older one being a sponge filter about all you can do would be to squeeze it out into the HOB which wouldn't be practical as this would not remain solely within the HOB although these bacteria will be widely dispersed throughout the water column for continued colonization. Ray. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46718	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank

I have been lurking on this list and the frequent comments on broken links has puzzled me for ages :-) Ray and others, can you not edit your received messages and repair the broken links? I just did this with Lainey's message and got: http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html Anyway, thanks for all the useful information that I have found (and continue to find) here. My fish also thank you! I am new to fish-keeping and have had a Jewel Trigon 190 aquarium since May 2009, with live plants and 5 Cherry Barbs 2 Bleeding Heart Tetras 4 Corys: 1 Julii, 1 Sterbei, 1 Panda and 1 Bronze 2 Dwarf gold Gourami 10 King Blue Tetras 3 Platies 5 Mollies 1 Molly fry ------------------ On 14 Feb, in article <17372.1cabb0ed.38a94fdf@...>, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Lainey, Your Oxygen 2 filter is not familiar to me (and your link > brings up a page on my 'puter that says "The page cannot be > found"). -- Tricia

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46719	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank

Tricia, Ray does his work online, and I do not believe it is possible for him to edit messages online that are not his. Also, he, among others, are not the most computer literate people around and they do not know all the fine points of broken and wrapped links. The real problem, however, is not with those who are not very literate with computers, but Yahoo!. There is no reason the links should break as they do here. You'd think by now they would have fixed the problem. However, links wrapping is an artifact with how e-mail is handled going through servers. There is no one way to post a link that will wrap and make it readable/clickable in all e-mail readers. This is why URL shortening has come into favor. I was requested the other day to write something up explaining how to use these services, though the only one I use is TinyURL. When I post a link, I'll post both the full URL as well as a TinyURL for the reader. While I have seen TinyURLs get broken by Yahoo! it has been nowhere as often as full URL's. Unfortunately, we cannot presume that all have our level of computer knowledge, realize that there are people out there who have less knowledge than us, who do not have 20mbps connections, and may (gasp) still use dial-up. It is the same with fishkeeping. We have those who are brand new at the hobby, and those who have been involved for many, many years. Those of us who can be considered experts need to be mindful of those who are just beginning, and use the language appropriate for beginners. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tricia Garner Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filter for new ram fry tank I have been lurking on this list and the frequent comments on broken links has puzzled me for ages :-) Ray and others, can you not edit your received messages and repair the broken links? I just did this with Lainey's message and got: http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html Anyway, thanks for all the useful information that I have found (and continue to find) here. My fish also thank you! I am new to fish-keeping and have had a Jewel Trigon 190 aquarium since May 2009, with live plants and 5 Cherry Barbs 2 Bleeding Heart Tetras 4 Corys: 1 Julii, 1 Sterbei, 1 Panda and 1 Bronze 2 Dwarf gold Gourami 10 King Blue Tetras 3 Platies 5 Mollies 1 Molly fry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.

The following article should serve as a warning to all. When you have wiring around your tank, you should always create drip loops to prevent the water from reaching the electrical equipment or outlet. To create a drip loop is simple, one only needs to put an open loop in the electrical cord coming from the tank. This way, should water creep up the electrical cord. For whatever reason. It will drip off the lowest point of the loop, harmlessly to the floor or a device set up to capture the water before it reaches the floor. http://www.danapointtimes.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01ar ticleid=1233&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20%25Y&cntnt01returnid=51 http://tinyurl.com/ybbub5x Two Rescued in Dana Point House Fire February 12, 2010 By Andrea Swayne Two people were rescued from the second floor balcony of a single family home on the 34000 block of Camino El Molino in Dana Point this evening. Orange County firefighters responded to calls from neighbors reporting the blaze shortly after 7 p.m. They arrived to find Jenny and Jim Green out on the second story balcony of their home as thick black smoke poured from the house. "I had fallen asleep while watching TV upstairs and the smoke alarm woke me up," said Jenny. "I saw smoke pouring up the stairs so I went into the bedroom and woke my husband up and we went out on the balcony." "When we arrived on scene we saw to occupants out on the balcony so we immediately effected a rescue by throwing a 35 foot ladder up to the balcony, said firefighter Gerry Zeledon. "My engineer and I assisted the two occupants down the ladder." According to Zeladon the blaze was a two alarm fire resulting in roughly 40 firefighters on scene. "From what I saw inside, there was significant damage to both floors of the home," he said. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46721	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: What lives in a Cubic Foot

From this month's National Geographic Magazine comes this article, "Cubic Foot" showing what lives in a cubic foot. The two cubic feet that you would be most interested to view, are the one from a coral reef, and the freshwater one. There is a short article, and tons of photos. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/cubic-foot/wilson-text http://tinyurl.com/yg8adls \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46722	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank

Nice group of fish you have there, my only comments are: that Bleeding Heart Tetras like to be in a school and if you were to get at least 3 or 4 more of them it would make your current 2 bleeding hearts much happier. I have 6 and love to watch them school around my 125 gallon tank together, they are very pretty fish. Also your cory's, normally people keep at least 3 of each type, as they like to be kept with their own kinds, they may group together just fine though, if they LOOK similar. I'm also amazed you have so few fish in such a large tank, typically people fill it pretty fast ;) LOL. Amber Tricia Garner wrote: > > I have been lurking on this list and the frequent comments on broken > links has puzzled me for ages :-) > > Ray and others, can you not edit your received messages and repair > the broken links? I just did this with Lainey's message and got: > http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html > <http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html> > > Anyway, thanks for all the useful information that I have found (and > continue to find) here. My fish also thank you! > > I am new to fish-keeping and have had a Jewel Trigon 190 aquarium > since May 2009, with live plants and > > 5 Cherry Barbs > 2 Bleeding Heart Tetras > 4 Corys: 1 Julii, 1 Sterbei, 1 Panda and 1 Bronze > 2 Dwarf gold Gourami > 10 King Blue Tetras > 3 Platies > 5 Mollies > 1 Molly fry > > ------------------ > > On 14 Feb, in article <17372.1cabb0ed.38a94fdf@... > <mailto:17372.1cabb0ed.38a94fdf%40wmconnect.com>>, > <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > wrote: > > Lainey, Your Oxygen 2 filter is not familiar to me (and your link > > brings up a page on my 'puter that says "The page cannot be > > found"). > > -- > > Tricia > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46723	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gall

Your housemates have a lot of rules ;) What temperature do you want your betta tank to be at? Does it fluctuate more than 2 degrees on your thermometers? It should be warmer near the heater and cooler away from it unless you have a little sponge filter in there to help circulate the water to keep it an even temperature. With that heater being "pre set" at 78, your tank water should be very near that temp, and since it is, I'm wondering why you're worried that it's not working... does the temp drop through the day? Amber Dora Smith wrote: > Fan isn't going to happen. The housemates would go through the roof. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:19 PM > Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? > > > >> I don't see how a fan blowing air across the room is going to >> sufficiently heat a window that is constantly losing heat... Seems like >> it would circulate the air in the room but wouldn't warm the window up >> too much, unless it's perhaps a double paned window (all of mine are >> cheap old single pane windows that lose a lot of heat). >> >> Amber >> >> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >>> Hmmmm.. didn't realize Marineland made that one. It doesn't actually >>> have a >>> thermostat but is pre-set at 78F so it should bring the water up to >>> 78F and >>> with 10W heater for a 2G tank, it should be able to keep the water at >>> 78F as >>> long as the room temp (or rather window well temp) is at least 63F. If >>> the >>> window well temp is less than 63F, then the heater will not be able to >>> bring >>> the bowl up to 78F. You need to measure the window well temp or use a fan >>> positioned in a warmer section of the room to blow air towards the window >>> well area so that the window well area is closer or equal to the room >>> temp... then the heater should be able to do it's job properly. If it >>> still >>> isn't, then you could have a faulty heater. You could test it on a gallon >>> of water positioned in the room where the temp is at least 70F and see if >>> the heater raises the gallon of water to 78F. If it doesn't, then this >>> would confirm that the heater is not working properly and you could >>> contact >>> F&S about having them send you a return shipping label (pre-paid by >>> them) so >>> you can return the heater for another one. If the replacement doesn't >>> work >>> either, then I'd try other brands or just use the fan idea that I gave >>> you >>> earlier to keep the window well area close to or equal to the 78F room >>> temp >>> in the first place and then you wouldn't even need a heater. >>> >>> Lenny Vasbinder >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >>> >>> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? >>> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >>> Behalf Of Dora Smith >>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >>> >>> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323 >>> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323> >>> >>> This one. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Dora Smith >>> Austin, TX >>> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >>> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:04 PM >>> Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 >>> gallon? >>> >>> NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A 10W >>> heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is >>> plenty of >>> heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should the >>> heater ever >>> get stuck in the ON position where it would easily heat the tank to 15 >>> degrees F over room temperature, which, if the room temp is in the high >>> 70's, would raise the water temp up into the 90's which would kill >>> most home >>> kept tropical fish, although a Betta might survive this since it could >>> breathe surface air since the water would not be holding much O2 at that >>> temperature. >>> >>> You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so I >>> would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site and >>> I do >>> not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary manufacturer's pages. >>> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357 >>> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357> >>> 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd >>> <http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd> ) >>> >>> They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, >>> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1 >>> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1> >>> 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo >>> <http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo> but these do NOT have >>> thermostats so they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees over >>> room temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what you >>> have? >>> >>> Lenny Vasbinder >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >>> >>> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? >>> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >>> Behalf Of Dora Smith >>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >>> >>> Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 watt >>> heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. >>> >>> Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in >>> awhile? >>> >>> Yours, >>> Dora Smith >>> Austin, TX >>> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... >>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >>> >>> >>>> I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating too >>>> much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on >>>> each >>>> day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out >>>> of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day >>>> as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and >>>> take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank >>>> (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be >>>> able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt heater. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> Dora Smith wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in >>>>> >>> Ebenezer's 2 >>> >>>>> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But the >>>>> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the >>>>> >>> low 70's >>> >>>>> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to >>>>> >>> keep it >>> >>>>> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >>>>> cooler, >>>>> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >>>>> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 >>>>> >>> when I >>> >>>>> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >>>>> >>>>> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >>>>> warmer >>>>> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >>>>> time on >>>>> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >>>>> levels and >>>>> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >>>>> >>>>> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the >>>>> >>> smaller >>> >>>>> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten watt >>>>> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >>>>> >>>>> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >>>>> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room >>>>> >>> where it >>> >>>>> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window >>>>> >>> where the >>> >>>>> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom >>>>> >>> on the >>> >>>>> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >>>>> tank, >>>>> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. >>>>> >>> So now >>> >>>>> atleast he has light. >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> Dora Smith >>>>> Austin, TX >>>>> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>>>> >>> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46724	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot

I've always liked Darter's, I once thought about buying some off of aquabid, but figured they were too "cold water" for any of my tanks. But some of them sure are pretty colorful. Neat article, thanks. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > From this month's National Geographic Magazine comes this article, "Cubic > Foot" showing what lives in a cubic foot. The two cubic feet that you > would > be most interested to view, are the one from a coral reef, and the > freshwater one. There is a short article, and tons of photos. > > http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/cubic-foot/wilson-text > <http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/cubic-foot/wilson-text> > > http://tinyurl.com/yg8adls <http://tinyurl.com/yg8adls> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46725	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Proposed Times Square Aquarium

Now, you will have a reason to go to Times Square New Year's Eve. Someone has proposed a deal which will bring a public aquarium to Times Square. I mean, who really cares about some crystal ball dropping, counting down the seconds until the new year is here? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704140104575057650820646726.ht ml?KEYWORDS=Times+Square+aquarium http://tinyurl.com/ye2m88e Deal May Bring Aquarium to Times Square by ANTON TROIANOVSKI New York's Times Square may be getting a new tenant: a seven-story aquarium. News Hub: Deal May Bring Aquarium to Times Square 3:46 A developer has signed a preliminary deal to bring a 600,000-gallon aquarium to a Times Square office building. WSJ's Anton Troianovski has more on the $100 million project. Jerry Shefsky, a Toronto-based developer, said on Wednesday that he has signed a preliminary agreement with the landlord of an office tower on the western edge of Times Square to go forward with the $100 million project. He would install tanks featuring sharks, rays, penguins, otters, and other animals in the bottom floors of the 40-story building, known as 11 Times Square, hoping to attract some of the 35 million people who pass through Manhattan's major crossroads every year. Mr. Shefsky, 76 years old, has built aquariums and shopping centers around the world. He cautioned in an interview that the lease agreement for 11 Times Square isn't yet final. But he said he may start building out the space as early as this April with the hope of opening the aquarium in September 2011. A deal with Mr. Shefsky would be a long-awaited bit of good news for the developer of 11 Times Square, SJP Properties Inc., and its major financial backer, a real-estate fund managed by Prudential Financial Inc. SJP, led by New Jersey developer Steven Pozycki, broke ground on the tower in 2007 without having first secured a tenant, hoping that the hot Manhattan office market would bring sky-high rents as the building neared completion. But the market turned-New York City office rents plummeted 20% in 2009, according to Reis Inc.-and SJP's empty tower on the corner of 42nd Street and 8th Avenue has become a symbol of commercial-property woes. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46726	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank

Hello \\Steve// (and Tricia), \\Steve//, you have encompassed everything that I could have said to explain my situation to Tricia, and I now trust -- with your most appreciated help -- that she may more fully understand all the logistics behind my logistics in managing my limited resources dealing with such simple problems as she sees them. I do indeed work online, as you guessed, and cannot edit messages that are not mine -- just as you stated. I have no choice in this matter at the current time as my 'puter will not allow for an alternate approach. I'm now in the process of replacing this computer, which should be completed within two weeks or less, and which will again give me complete access to the Groupsite for editing and posting from that venue, as I had always done (and preferred) up until recently; this "reinstatement" of full functions can't come too soon as it will better help serve my needs in moderating also -- but ya do what ya gotta do, with whatcha got! Too, some people are more fortunate in getting to learn (and/or -- be SHOWN) better skills at this 'puter game, and I unfortunately am not one of them despite my attempts to learn 'puter skills on my own (and I'm not about to go to school for this). So yes, my computer literacy is admittedly not up to many others' who may have had the benefit of being taught some of this. After all, let's face it, while the OS may be able to guide one through much of the basics, you cannot learn all there is to know about these machines by trial and error just by yourself. It just doesn't come automatically, like part of one's innate skills of growing up (walking, talking, etc.) as a person, as we're dealing with a completely alien "thinking" machine that's not necessarily programmed to our way of thinking. Your last paragraph says a bundle -- There are those of us who may know a considerable amount more about fish than do most beginners such as Tricia, yet she might know considerably more about computers. Both of us NEED to be mindful of the other's shortfalls and not just assume that everyone should be at the same level of knowledge in both areas. As moderators here on this Group, we sure don't look upon beginners in the fish hobby as people who should automatically know as much as us about fish. It would serve no purpose if we did -- and this Forum/Groupsite would not even be needed then, if that were the case. Many thanks again for clarifying an alternate situation, Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46727	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

Okay so I have a ton of egg batches on my 125 gallon tank, but the female snails crawl up so high to lay the eggs on the lighting hood that the babies don't make it to the water after they hatch. What should I do if I want to scrape the egg batch off and hatch them in... say a bowl? Any tips helpful :) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46728	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot

Cubic's Athlete's Foot, Cubic's Toenail Fungus, Cubic's Toe Cheese, Cubic's Hammer Toe, Cubic's Mosaic Warts, Cubic's corn... and many other things live in and on Cubic's foot. Oh yeah... and don't forget Cubic Frankentoe, which is the picturesque end result of the above. This was a question... right??? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What lives in a Cubic Foot From this month's National Geographic Magazine comes this article, "Cubic Foot" showing what lives in a cubic foot. The two cubic feet that you would be most interested to view, are the one from a coral reef, and the freshwater one. There is a short article, and tons of photos. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/cubic-foot/wilson-text http://tinyurl.com/yg8adls \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46729	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank

"Both of us NEED to be mindful of the others shortfalls and not just assume that everyone should be at the same level of knowledge in both areas".   Very Well Said Ray!  BUT-----------------------------------------------   Leave us not forget, IF everyone WAS at the same levels------------ We wouldn't need one another for HELP!   Bill------where its always a good day, when I learn something new! --- On Sun, 2/14/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filter for new ram fry tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 1:23 PM Hello \\Steve// (and Tricia),  \\Steve//, you have encompassed everything that I could have said to explain my situation to Tricia, and I now trust -- with your most appreciated help -- that she may more fully understand all the logistics behind my logistics in managing my limited resources dealing with such simple problems as she sees them.  I do indeed work online, as you guessed, and cannot edit messages that are not mine -- just as you stated.  I have no choice in this matter at the current time as my 'puter will not allow for an alternate approach.  I'm now in the process of replacing this computer, which should be completed within two weeks or less, and which will again give me complete access to the Groupsite for editing and posting from that venue, as I had always done (and preferred) up until recently; this "reinstatement" of full functions can't come too soon as it will better help serve my needs in moderating also -- but ya do what ya gotta do, with whatcha got!  Too, some people are more fortunate in getting to learn (and/or -- be SHOWN) better skills at this 'puter game, and I unfortunately am not one of them despite my attempts to learn 'puter skills on my own (and I'm not about to go to school for this).  So yes, my computer literacy is admittedly not up to many others' who may have had the benefit of being taught some of this.  After all, let's face it, while the OS may be able to guide one through much of the basics, you cannot learn all there is to know about these machines by trial and error just by yourself.  It just doesn't come automatically, like part of one's innate skills of growing up (walking, talking, etc.) as a person, as we're dealing with a completely alien "thinking" machine that's not necessarily programmed to our way of thinking.  Your last paragraph says a bundle -- There are those of us who may know a considerable amount more about fish than do most beginners such as Tricia, yet she might know considerably more about computers.  Both of us NEED to be mindful of the other's shortfalls and not just assume that everyone should be at the same level of knowledge in both areas.  As moderators here on this Group, we sure don't look upon beginners in the fish hobby as people who should automatically know as much as us about fish.  It would serve no purpose if we did -- and this Forum/Groupsite would not even be needed then, if that were the case.    Many thanks again for clarifying an alternate situation,  Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46730	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank

Tricia, Your current selection of fish, up to this point, for your 190 gallon tank appears to happily be modestly conservative both in species and in numbers -- with possible considerations by you of what Amber has added to this thread. Your mention of having King Blue Tetras (and TEN of them) interests me as these are not regular "run-of-the-mill" Tetras but a species a bit out of the ordinary that many hobbyists do not consider. Your taste for something just a bit more unusual is duely noted, and at this same time might I recommend adding a small grouping of either Congo Tetras or a somewhat similar (to your King Blue) and distinctive fish, the Rainbow "Emporer" Tetra (Nematobrycon lacortei) which I know you'd be equally pleased with. Glad you've found (and are finding) our information to be useful. If there's anything in particular you'd like to know concerning your fish, please don't hesitate to ask; we're here to help. Much luck with continued success in your fishkeeping hobby. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)

The "190" is liters, not gallons... in case you were thinking otherwise. That's about 50G so it's still a decent sized tank but the 32 fish pretty much fill it up! ;-) I agree with topping off the school of Bleeding Heart Tetras... just make sure to quarantine the new fish first! http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/trigon.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filter for new ram fry tank Nice group of fish you have there, my only comments are: that Bleeding Heart Tetras like to be in a school and if you were to get at least 3 or 4 more of them it would make your current 2 bleeding hearts much happier. I have 6 and love to watch them school around my 125 gallon tank together, they are very pretty fish. Also your cory's, normally people keep at least 3 of each type, as they like to be kept with their own kinds, they may group together just fine though, if they LOOK similar. I'm also amazed you have so few fish in such a large tank, typically people fill it pretty fast ;) LOL. Amber Tricia Garner wrote: > > I have been lurking on this list and the frequent comments on broken > links has puzzled me for ages :-) > > Ray and others, can you not edit your received messages and repair the > broken links? I just did this with Lainey's message and got: > http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html > <http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html> > > Anyway, thanks for all the useful information that I have found (and > continue to find) here. My fish also thank you! > > I am new to fish-keeping and have had a Jewel Trigon 190 aquarium > since May 2009, with live plants and > > 5 Cherry Barbs > 2 Bleeding Heart Tetras > 4 Corys: 1 Julii, 1 Sterbei, 1 Panda and 1 Bronze > 2 Dwarf gold Gourami > 10 King Blue Tetras > 3 Platies > 5 Mollies > 1 Molly fry > > ------------------ > > On 14 Feb, in article <17372.1cabb0ed.38a94fdf@... > <mailto:17372.1cabb0ed.38a94fdf%40wmconnect.com>>, > <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > wrote: > > Lainey, Your Oxygen 2 filter is not familiar to me (and your link > > brings up a page on my 'puter that says "The page cannot be found"). > > -- > > Tricia

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46732	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank

Oh, I missed the liters, thought it was gallons, LOL. thanks for clearing that up Lenny. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The "190" is liters, not gallons... in case you were thinking otherwise. > That's about 50G so it's still a decent sized tank but the 32 fish pretty > much fill it up! ;-) I agree with topping off the school of Bleeding Heart > Tetras... just make sure to quarantine the new fish first! > > http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/trigon.htm > <http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/trigon.htm> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filter for new ram fry tank > > Nice group of fish you have there, my only comments are: that Bleeding > Heart > Tetras like to be in a school and if you were to get at least 3 or > 4 more of them it would make your current 2 bleeding hearts much > happier. I > have 6 and love to watch them school around my 125 gallon tank together, > they are very pretty fish. Also your cory's, normally people keep at > least 3 > of each type, as they like to be kept with their own kinds, they may group > together just fine though, if they LOOK similar. > I'm also amazed you have so few fish in such a large tank, typically > people > fill it pretty fast ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Tricia Garner wrote: > > > > I have been lurking on this list and the frequent comments on broken > > links has puzzled me for ages :-) > > > > Ray and others, can you not edit your received messages and repair the > > broken links? I just did this with Lainey's message and got: > > http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html > <http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html> > > <http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html > <http://www.aquacave.com/azoo-oxygen-sponge-filters-12.html>> > > > > Anyway, thanks for all the useful information that I have found (and > > continue to find) here. My fish also thank you! > > > > I am new to fish-keeping and have had a Jewel Trigon 190 aquarium > > since May 2009, with live plants and > > > > 5 Cherry Barbs > > 2 Bleeding Heart Tetras > > 4 Corys: 1 Julii, 1 Sterbei, 1 Panda and 1 Bronze > > 2 Dwarf gold Gourami > > 10 King Blue Tetras > > 3 Platies > > 5 Mollies > > 1 Molly fry > > > > ------------------ > > > > On 14 Feb, in article <17372.1cabb0ed.38a94fdf@... > <mailto:17372.1cabb0ed.38a94fdf%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:17372.1cabb0ed.38a94fdf%40wmconnect.com>>, > > <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > wrote: > > > Lainey, Your Oxygen 2 filter is not familiar to me (and your link > > > brings up a page on my 'puter that says "The page cannot be found"). > > > > -- > > > > Tricia > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46733	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

Raise the water level closer to the egg clusters. Do you have a tight enough fitting cover on the tank to keep the humidity level up in the air space between the water and the egg clusters? http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding Where's Pam? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs Okay so I have a ton of egg batches on my 125 gallon tank, but the female snails crawl up so high to lay the eggs on the lighting hood that the babies don't make it to the water after they hatch. What should I do if I want to scrape the egg batch off and hatch them in... say a bowl? Any tips helpful :) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46734	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank

Bill said: "Both of us NEED to be mindful of the others shortfalls" I thought that was why some men bought Corvettes? My first car was a Pinto! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filter for new ram fry tank "Both of us NEED to be mindful of the others shortfalls and not just assume that everyone should be at the same level of knowledge in both areas".   Very Well Said Ray!  BUT-----------------------------------------------   Leave us not forget, IF everyone WAS at the same levels------------ We wouldn't need one another for HELP!   Bill------where its always a good day, when I learn something new! --- On Sun, 2/14/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filter for new ram fry tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 1:23 PM Hello \\Steve// (and Tricia),  \\Steve//, you have encompassed everything that I could have said to explain my situation to Tricia, and I now trust -- with your most appreciated help -- that she may more fully understand all the logistics behind my logistics in managing my limited resources dealing with such simple problems as she sees them.  I do indeed work online, as you guessed, and cannot edit messages that are not mine -- just as you stated.  I have no choice in this matter at the current time as my 'puter will not allow for an alternate approach.  I'm now in the process of replacing this computer, which should be completed within two weeks or less, and which will again give me complete access to the Groupsite for editing and posting from that venue, as I had always done (and preferred) up until recently; this "reinstatement" of full functions can't come too soon as it will better help serve my needs in moderating also -- but ya do what ya gotta do, with whatcha got!  Too, some people are more fortunate in getting to learn (and/or -- be SHOWN) better skills at this 'puter game, and I unfortunately am not one of them despite my attempts to learn 'puter skills on my own (and I'm not about to go to school for this).  So yes, my computer literacy is admittedly not up to many others' who may have had the benefit of being taught some of this.  After all, let's face it, while the OS may be able to guide one through much of the basics, you cannot learn all there is to know about these machines by trial and error just by yourself.  It just doesn't come automatically, like part of one's innate skills of growing up (walking, talking, etc.) as a person, as we're dealing with a completely alien "thinking" machine that's not necessarily programmed to our way of thinking.  Your last paragraph says a bundle -- There are those of us who may know a considerable amount more about fish than do most beginners such as Tricia, yet she might know considerably more about computers.  Both of us NEED to be mindful of the other's shortfalls and not just assume that everyone should be at the same level of knowledge in both areas.  As moderators here on this Group, we sure don't look upon beginners in the fish hobby as people who should automatically know as much as us about fish.  It would serve no purpose if we did -- and this Forum/Groupsite would not even be needed then, if that were the case. Many thanks again for clarifying an alternate situation,  Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46735	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

I can't raise the water level, they are climbing up INTO the wooden built hood which is a big open space above the tank with the lights inside, there's nothing covering the top of the actual tank except that. It's something home made that the previous owner built. It's a large wooden box that sits over all the filter intakes/outtakes (with cut outs) and has a flip open front door for PWC's and such. So these females are climbing a foot or so up out of the water, and no there's not enough humidity to reach that far. That's why I need to remove the egg clusters and hatch them somewhere else myself. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Raise the water level closer to the egg clusters. Do you have a tight > enough fitting cover on the tank to keep the humidity level up in the air > space between the water and the egg clusters? > > http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding> > > Where's Pam? :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs > > Okay so I have a ton of egg batches on my 125 gallon tank, but the female > snails crawl up so high to lay the eggs on the lighting hood that the > babies > don't make it to the water after they hatch. What should I do if I want to > scrape the egg batch off and hatch them in... say a bowl? > Any tips helpful :) > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46736	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Filter for new ram fry tank

It's 190 liters. Juwel tanks are a European made tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Filter for new ram fry tank Tricia, Your current selection of fish, up to this point, for your 190 gallon tank appears to happily be modestly conservative both in species and in numbers -- with possible considerations by you of what Amber has added to this thread. Your mention of having King Blue Tetras (and TEN of them) interests me as these are not regular "run-of-the-mill" Tetras but a species a bit out of the ordinary that many hobbyists do not consider. Your taste for something just a bit more unusual is duely noted, and at this same time might I recommend adding a small grouping of either Congo Tetras or a somewhat similar (to your King Blue) and distinctive fish, the Rainbow "Emporer" Tetra (Nematobrycon lacortei) which I know you'd be equally pleased with. Glad you've found (and are finding) our information to be useful. If there's anything in particular you'd like to know concerning your fish, please don't hesitate to ask; we're here to help. Much luck with continued success in your fishkeeping hobby. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46737	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot

Lenny, The only thing you forgot was Rubik's Cube (or is it Rubik's Cubic?) -- HaHaHaHa. For those not familiar with this "game," it was a hand-held 3-D mechanical puzzle (about 3" in each dimension) that was invented in the Spring of 1974. The object was to realign all the individual small panels on all 6 faces of the cube after you mixed them up, and it was no easy chore in doing so. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46738	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot

Lenny, And, don't forget the time Cubic thought he was really cupid and shot himself with an arrow in the foot leading to that tetanus thing and the gangrene he developed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What lives in a Cubic Foot Cubic's Athlete's Foot, Cubic's Toenail Fungus, Cubic's Toe Cheese, Cubic's Hammer Toe, Cubic's Mosaic Warts, Cubic's corn... and many other things live in and on Cubic's foot. Oh yeah... and don't forget Cubic Frankentoe, which is the picturesque end result of the above. This was a question... right??? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What lives in a Cubic Foot From this month's National Geographic Magazine comes this article, "Cubic Foot" showing what lives in a cubic foot. The two cubic feet that you would be most interested to view, are the one from a coral reef, and the freshwater one. There is a short article, and tons of photos. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/cubic-foot/wilson-text http://tinyurl.com/yg8adls \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46739	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

What about a couple of pieces of custom cut plexiglass, or this stuff http://tinyurl.com/yhr9uf2 from Lowe's/Home Depot, to cover the tank and separate the tank from the hood. http://www.lowes.com/pd_163816-337-R-A12-242G-U_4294859086_4 294937087?productId=1039427&pl=1¤tURL=/pl_Fluorescent% 2BAccessories_4294859086_4294937087_?Va=74 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs I can't raise the water level, they are climbing up INTO the wooden built hood which is a big open space above the tank with the lights inside, there's nothing covering the top of the actual tank except that. It's something home made that the previous owner built. It's a large wooden box that sits over all the filter intakes/outtakes (with cut outs) and has a flip open front door for PWC's and such. So these females are climbing a foot or so up out of the water, and no there's not enough humidity to reach that far. That's why I need to remove the egg clusters and hatch them somewhere else myself. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Raise the water level closer to the egg clusters. Do you have a tight > enough fitting cover on the tank to keep the humidity level up in the > air space between the water and the egg clusters? > > http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding> > > Where's Pam? :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs > > Okay so I have a ton of egg batches on my 125 gallon tank, but the > female snails crawl up so high to lay the eggs on the lighting hood > that the babies don't make it to the water after they hatch. What > should I do if I want to scrape the egg batch off and hatch them in... > say a bowl? > Any tips helpful :) > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46740	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)

OOPS -- missed this "Liters" measurement of Tricia's 190. Just caught your post now, Lenny, that it's not "gallons," but instead a 190 Liter -- or, 50.19 U.S. Gallons. Still, a nice size tank, but not as sparsely stock as I had first thought. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46741	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

The previous owner also sawed off the lip that normally goes around the edge of tanks (to set the hoods onto if you get one of the all glass hoods), so there is no lip to set anything on, as the hood sits on the edge of the aquarium, all the way around. I would have to glue an edge around the tank, and honestly this is all too much work when the tank already has a solid hood, I just want to know how to hatch my snail eggs ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What about a couple of pieces of custom cut plexiglass, or this stuff > http://tinyurl.com/yhr9uf2 <http://tinyurl.com/yhr9uf2> from > Lowe's/Home Depot, to cover the tank and > separate the tank from the hood. > > http://www.lowes.com/pd_163816-337-R-A12-242G-U_4294859086_4 > <http://www.lowes.com/pd_163816-337-R-A12-242G-U_4294859086_4> > 294937087?productId=1039427&pl=1¤tURL=/pl_Fluorescent% > 2BAccessories_4294859086_4294937087_?Va=74 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs > > I can't raise the water level, they are climbing up INTO the wooden built > hood which is a big open space above the tank with the lights inside, > there's nothing covering the top of the actual tank except that. > It's something home made that the previous owner built. It's a large > wooden > box that sits over all the filter intakes/outtakes (with cut > outs) and has a flip open front door for PWC's and such. So these females > are climbing a foot or so up out of the water, and no there's not enough > humidity to reach that far. That's why I need to remove the egg > clusters and > hatch them somewhere else myself. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Raise the water level closer to the egg clusters. Do you have a tight > > enough fitting cover on the tank to keep the humidity level up in the > > air space between the water and the egg clusters? > > > > http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding> > > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding>> > > > > Where's Pam? :-P > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs > > > > Okay so I have a ton of egg batches on my 125 gallon tank, but the > > female snails crawl up so high to lay the eggs on the lighting hood > > that the babies don't make it to the water after they hatch. What > > should I do if I want to scrape the egg batch off and hatch them in... > > say a bowl? > > Any tips helpful :) > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46742	From: Joseph	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again - Update

Yesterday we saw the female spitting out fry, and it appeared she was no longer holding. We saw our chance, and moved her back into the original tank. She seems to be doing quite well there, and is now eating well and holding her own with her tankmates. We then turned our attention to the fry. They are, as I've said before, much bigger than I expected. They are very dark in color...almost completely black. They're staying mostly out of side...hiding under the edges of things and keeping to the bottom. We've been able to count 22. My only concern is that I haven't seen them eat at all...they just appear to want to stay out of site. Any thoughts? Thanks for all the advice and suggestions! Joe & Tami --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Okay, that's a lot better -- using the 10 gallon tank for the female. The > number of fry you see (15 -- 20), added to a number that she is apparently > still holding is not unusual and is more like the norm. Mbuna can average > anywhere between 20 to 25 fry, up to 60 or sometimes 80 fry but this depends > on the size of the female and the size of the species in general. The larger > Malawi mouthbrooders (Utaka) that roam in open water over sand may have up > to 150 to 180 or so fry, but this still isn't a large number when > considering similar sized substrate spawners will produce up to 4 or 5 times many. > > The difference is in the much larger size of the eggs, and subsequently the > larger size of the fry when they first become free-swimming. As they're > more advanced in size, and are being protected from predators at the first > signs of danger by having the female parent holding them in her mouth for an > extended period, they don't need to produce as many to continue the species. > One couldn't expect the female to hold many more fry in her mouth anyway, > unless it was first thought that they were much smaller. > > Finding additional room to entertain one's MTS (multi tank syndrome) is > often the major drawback to expansion, even though many of us may find we never > have enough tanks (LOL). Your plans for a 135 gallon sounds nice when > considering it will make a great looking aquarium for the display of many more > of these same kinds of fish. One other thing you may want to consider > though, since you've now found that these fish will spawn for you under the > conditions you're providing for them, is to possibly set up two or three somewhat > smaller (60 -- 75 gallons, for instance) single-species-only tanks in place > of a 135 gallon if you have any particular favorites -- and if you'd enjoy > breeding these particular favorites. In this way, you'd know that in these > tanks, there could no longer exist the possibility of them interbreeding. > > Good to see you restricting the use of chemicals. There are too many > unneeded chemical products available in the aquarium hobby, and although there > are a few that are beneficial, most of them can cause more harm than good and > are just money-makers for some of these manufacturers, benefitting them at > your expense. Mother Nature is not dumping all kinds of bottled junk in the > lakes and rivers where these fish are found so that should tell you > something (fish never evolved as a result of having chemical additives in their > environment). > > Congrats on your new spawning, and continued good luck with them. Ray > </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46743	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater fo

Well, actually it was only 72 last night. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:45 AM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? > Your housemates have a lot of rules ;) > What temperature do you want your betta tank to be at? Does it fluctuate > more than 2 degrees on your thermometers? > It should be warmer near the heater and cooler away from it unless you > have a little sponge filter in there to help circulate the water to keep > it an even temperature. > With that heater being "pre set" at 78, your tank water should be very > near that temp, and since it is, I'm wondering why you're worried that > it's not working... does the temp drop through the day? > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> Fan isn't going to happen. The housemates would go through the roof. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 2:19 PM >> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 >> gallon? >> >> >> >>> I don't see how a fan blowing air across the room is going to >>> sufficiently heat a window that is constantly losing heat... Seems like >>> it would circulate the air in the room but wouldn't warm the window up >>> too much, unless it's perhaps a double paned window (all of mine are >>> cheap old single pane windows that lose a lot of heat). >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>> >>>> Hmmmm.. didn't realize Marineland made that one. It doesn't actually >>>> have a >>>> thermostat but is pre-set at 78F so it should bring the water up to >>>> 78F and >>>> with 10W heater for a 2G tank, it should be able to keep the water at >>>> 78F as >>>> long as the room temp (or rather window well temp) is at least 63F. If >>>> the >>>> window well temp is less than 63F, then the heater will not be able to >>>> bring >>>> the bowl up to 78F. You need to measure the window well temp or use a >>>> fan >>>> positioned in a warmer section of the room to blow air towards the >>>> window >>>> well area so that the window well area is closer or equal to the room >>>> temp... then the heater should be able to do it's job properly. If it >>>> still >>>> isn't, then you could have a faulty heater. You could test it on a >>>> gallon >>>> of water positioned in the room where the temp is at least 70F and see >>>> if >>>> the heater raises the gallon of water to 78F. If it doesn't, then this >>>> would confirm that the heater is not working properly and you could >>>> contact >>>> F&S about having them send you a return shipping label (pre-paid by >>>> them) so >>>> you can return the heater for another one. If the replacement doesn't >>>> work >>>> either, then I'd try other brands or just use the fan idea that I gave >>>> you >>>> earlier to keep the window well area close to or equal to the 78F room >>>> temp >>>> in the first place and then you wouldn't even need a heater. >>>> >>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >>>> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >>>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >>>> right >>>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>> Month) >>>> >>>> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM >>>> SAINTS? >>>> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >>>> Behalf Of Dora Smith >>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 10:11 PM >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >>>> >>>> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323 >>>> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21323> >>>> >>>> This one. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Dora Smith >>>> Austin, TX >>>> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >>>> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >>>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 9:04 PM >>>> Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 >>>> gallon? >>>> >>>> NO. You do not need a bigger heater, just one that works properly. A >>>> 10W >>>> heater, as I stated in my earlier post, is 5W per gallon which is >>>> plenty of >>>> heat for most home heating situations and is overkill should the >>>> heater ever >>>> get stuck in the ON position where it would easily heat the tank to 15 >>>> degrees F over room temperature, which, if the room temp is in the high >>>> 70's, would raise the water temp up into the 90's which would kill >>>> most home >>>> kept tropical fish, although a Betta might survive this since it could >>>> breathe surface air since the water would not be holding much O2 at >>>> that >>>> temperature. >>>> >>>> You say, in another reply, that you got if from DrsFosterSmith.com, so >>>> I >>>> would contact them about returning it. I just looked at their site and >>>> I do >>>> not see a 10W heater listed on any of the primary manufacturer's pages. >>>> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357 >>>> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-heater/ps/c/357> >>>> 8/3743 (Hey \\Steve//... http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd >>>> <http://tinyurl.com/yhrncsd> ) >>>> >>>> They do have this mini-heater, in either 7.5W or 15W size, >>>> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1 >>>> <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+1> >>>> 2087&pcatid=12087 or http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo >>>> <http://tinyurl.com/ylot4zo> but these do NOT have >>>> thermostats so they'll simply raise the small tank by a few degrees >>>> over >>>> room temperature, whatever the room temp happens to be. Is this what >>>> you >>>> have? >>>> >>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >>>> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >>>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >>>> right >>>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>> Month) >>>> >>>> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM >>>> SAINTS? >>>> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >>>> Behalf Of Dora Smith >>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:47 PM >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >>>> >>>> Well, it's a 10 watt heater, so I guess you're suggesting I try a 25 >>>> watt >>>> heater. I can certainly give it a try come payday. >>>> >>>> Maybe it's the human in me, but don't bettas like to see light once in >>>> awhile? >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Dora Smith >>>> Austin, TX >>>> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@... >>>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >>>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:56 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Do I need a bigger heater for my 2 gallon? >>>> >>>> >>>>> I would be less worried about light than the water temps fluccating >>>>> too >>>>> much, you can always get a little book light to clip on and turn on >>>>> each >>>>> day to add a little light to his little tank too. I would move him out >>>>> of the window as the temperature is bound to change throughout the day >>>>> as the temps outside vary. Or you could just get a 50 watt heater and >>>>> take out the heater you have in there and use it for the smaller tank >>>>> (if/when you move him into that one again). A 50 watt heater would be >>>>> able to handle the temp difference better than a little 25 watt >>>>> heater. >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> Dora Smith wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have a 10 watt Marineland heater from Fosters and Smith in >>>>>> >>>> Ebenezer's 2 >>>> >>>>>> gallon winter tank. (His not winter tank is a little smaller.) But >>>>>> the >>>>>> temperature takes a full day to warm up from the mid 60's to the >>>>>> >>>> low 70's >>>> >>>>>> after I change it. The house is very warm - my housemate tries to >>>>>> >>>> keep it >>>> >>>>>> at 80 and in the kitchen it's 76 - but he's in the window where it's >>>>>> cooler, >>>>>> I guess. The water for his tank lives on the bathroom floor where I'm >>>>>> surprised it's only in the mid 60's, and actually it was around 70 >>>>>> >>>> when I >>>> >>>>>> first put it in the tank. I do have two thermometers in the tank. >>>>>> >>>>>> The water in the tank isn't evenly warm, either. The water on top is >>>>>> warmer >>>>>> than the water on the bottom, and a fish who spends a fair amount of >>>>>> time on >>>>>> the bottom, especially at night, is now to be found in the upper >>>>>> levels and >>>>>> sometimes sleeping on his heater. >>>>>> >>>>>> Should I get a 25 watt heater? Or put fish nd heater back in the >>>>>> >>>> smaller >>>> >>>>>> tank? I thought it had to be a minimum of two gallons for the ten >>>>>> watt >>>>>> heater, but the package said only maximum three gallons. >>>>>> >>>>>> Reason he's in the window is the glass tank is one of those siliconed >>>>>> together things and there's no proper place to put it in my room >>>>>> >>>> where it >>>> >>>>>> would have proper support on the bottom. My room by the window >>>>>> >>>> where the >>>> >>>>>> tanks live is often chilly at night so I put him in the livingroom >>>>>> >>>> on the >>>> >>>>>> bookcase where the routers are when he was in the smaller all plastic >>>>>> tank, >>>>>> but it is dark there because my housemates are allergic to light. >>>>>> >>>> So now >>>> >>>>>> atleast he has light. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> Dora Smith >>>>>> Austin, TX >>>>>> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>>>>> >>>> <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >>> You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >>> to >>> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >>> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >>> you >>> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >>> the >>> home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, >>> which >>> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >>> where >>> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >> to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" >> on the home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option >> where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post >> replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46744	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot

OUCH!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What lives in a Cubic Foot Lenny, And, don't forget the time Cubic thought he was really cupid and shot himself with an arrow in the foot leading to that tetanus thing and the gangrene he developed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What lives in a Cubic Foot Cubic's Athlete's Foot, Cubic's Toenail Fungus, Cubic's Toe Cheese, Cubic's Hammer Toe, Cubic's Mosaic Warts, Cubic's corn... and many other things live in and on Cubic's foot. Oh yeah... and don't forget Cubic Frankentoe, which is the picturesque end result of the above. This was a question... right??? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What lives in a Cubic Foot From this month's National Geographic Magazine comes this article, "Cubic Foot" showing what lives in a cubic foot. The two cubic feet that you would be most interested to view, are the one from a coral reef, and the freshwater one. There is a short article, and tons of photos. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/cubic-foot/wilson-text http://tinyurl.com/yg8adls \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46745	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot

I think Cubic's Rube would have been the best reply. ;-) It is "Correct Ray Day".... right? LOL Happy Valentine's Day to all the ladies out here.... and to the not-so-lady-like even more! ;-) Mike.... That doesn't mean some of your TG friends out there in San Francisco! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What lives in a Cubic Foot Lenny, The only thing you forgot was Rubik's Cube (or is it Rubik's Cubic?) -- HaHaHaHa. For those not familiar with this "game," it was a hand-held 3-D mechanical puzzle (about 3" in each dimension) that was invented in the Spring of 1974. The object was to realign all the individual small panels on all 6 faces of the cube after you mixed them up, and it was no easy chore in doing so. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46746	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

Well, a single piece of plexiglass, cut to fit so it sits on the top of the frame and then the wooden hood should sit over both the plexiglass and the tank frame... if this is what you have. If the hood has a front door that opens for feeding, etc., you could then cut out a piece of the plexiglass and hinge it so you can open it to feed the fish. A picture speaks a thousand words! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs The previous owner also sawed off the lip that normally goes around the edge of tanks (to set the hoods onto if you get one of the all glass hoods), so there is no lip to set anything on, as the hood sits on the edge of the aquarium, all the way around. I would have to glue an edge around the tank, and honestly this is all too much work when the tank already has a solid hood, I just want to know how to hatch my snail eggs ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What about a couple of pieces of custom cut plexiglass, or this stuff > http://tinyurl.com/yhr9uf2 <http://tinyurl.com/yhr9uf2> from > Lowe's/Home Depot, to cover the tank and > separate the tank from the hood. > > http://www.lowes.com/pd_163816-337-R-A12-242G-U_4294859086_4 > <http://www.lowes.com/pd_163816-337-R-A12-242G-U_4294859086_4> > 294937087?productId=1039427&pl=1¤tURL=/pl_Fluorescent% > 2BAccessories_4294859086_4294937087_?Va=74 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs > > I can't raise the water level, they are climbing up INTO the wooden built > hood which is a big open space above the tank with the lights inside, > there's nothing covering the top of the actual tank except that. > It's something home made that the previous owner built. It's a large > wooden > box that sits over all the filter intakes/outtakes (with cut > outs) and has a flip open front door for PWC's and such. So these females > are climbing a foot or so up out of the water, and no there's not enough > humidity to reach that far. That's why I need to remove the egg > clusters and > hatch them somewhere else myself. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Raise the water level closer to the egg clusters. Do you have a tight > > enough fitting cover on the tank to keep the humidity level up in the > > air space between the water and the egg clusters? > > > > http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding> > > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding > <http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding>> > > > > Where's Pam? :-P > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:30 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs > > > > Okay so I have a ton of egg batches on my 125 gallon tank, but the > > female snails crawl up so high to lay the eggs on the lighting hood > > that the babies don't make it to the water after they hatch. What > > should I do if I want to scrape the egg batch off and hatch them in... > > say a bowl? > > Any tips helpful :) > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46747	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)

Sorry, folks - I should have stated that the tank measurement is in litres. I think the stocking level is about right; having been mindful of all the comments on the list I am keen not to overstock with new fish, especially if we get the odd fry here and there. I know (have read) that Bleeding Heart Tetras and Corys are usually kept in greater numbers but so far ours seem very happy. We had five King Blue Tetras to start with, having fallen in love with them at the local aquatic centre, but they did not school so we got another five. Guess what - they still don't school! If we had the space I would love to have more tanks and have larger groups of fewer species in each but there are so many gorgeous fish I would soon be in the grip of MTS - that's the multiple tank syndrome definition, not Malaysian Trumpet Snails as we have loads of them already :-) Also I do apologise if my remarks about fixing broken links was seen as criticism. I was not suggesting anyone was not computer literate. Being self-taught myself I am only too well aware of my own shortcomings in regard to computing, but was curious to know what 'modern' email systems these days don't allow simple editing of incoming messages. My own preferred email program is as old as the hills but does allow it, and I have never used online email - as a mailing list junkie I would find it far too much hassle... Once again, I apologise for any offence caused and do assure you it was unintentional. Best wishes, -- Tricia

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46748	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Red Top Zebra again - Update

Takes a couple of days for them to figure out that debris in the water is food. Sometimes I will mix it with tank water and use a syringe (for feeding small animals) to squirt the food at them. They do notice the water turbulence and it gets their attention for the food. Are you feeding sinking pellets? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Red Top Zebra again - Update Yesterday we saw the female spitting out fry, and it appeared she was no longer holding. We saw our chance, and moved her back into the original tank. She seems to be doing quite well there, and is now eating well and holding her own with her tankmates. We then turned our attention to the fry. They are, as I've said before, much bigger than I expected. They are very dark in color...almost completely black. They're staying mostly out of side...hiding under the edges of things and keeping to the bottom. We've been able to count 22. My only concern is that I haven't seen them eat at all...they just appear to want to stay out of site. Any thoughts? Thanks for all the advice and suggestions! Joe & Tami --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Okay, that's a lot better -- using the 10 gallon tank for the female. The > number of fry you see (15 -- 20), added to a number that she is apparently > still holding is not unusual and is more like the norm. Mbuna can average > anywhere between 20 to 25 fry, up to 60 or sometimes 80 fry but this depends > on the size of the female and the size of the species in general. The larger > Malawi mouthbrooders (Utaka) that roam in open water over sand may have up > to 150 to 180 or so fry, but this still isn't a large number when > considering similar sized substrate spawners will produce up to 4 or 5 times many. > > The difference is in the much larger size of the eggs, and subsequently the > larger size of the fry when they first become free-swimming. As they're > more advanced in size, and are being protected from predators at the first > signs of danger by having the female parent holding them in her mouth for an > extended period, they don't need to produce as many to continue the species. > One couldn't expect the female to hold many more fry in her mouth anyway, > unless it was first thought that they were much smaller. > > Finding additional room to entertain one's MTS (multi tank syndrome) is > often the major drawback to expansion, even though many of us may find we never > have enough tanks (LOL). Your plans for a 135 gallon sounds nice when > considering it will make a great looking aquarium for the display of many more > of these same kinds of fish. One other thing you may want to consider > though, since you've now found that these fish will spawn for you under the > conditions you're providing for them, is to possibly set up two or three somewhat > smaller (60 -- 75 gallons, for instance) single-species-only tanks in place > of a 135 gallon if you have any particular favorites -- and if you'd enjoy > breeding these particular favorites. In this way, you'd know that in these > tanks, there could no longer exist the possibility of them interbreeding. > > Good to see you restricting the use of chemicals. There are too many > unneeded chemical products available in the aquarium hobby, and although there > are a few that are beneficial, most of them can cause more harm than good and > are just money-makers for some of these manufacturers, benefitting them at > your expense. Mother Nature is not dumping all kinds of bottled junk in the > lakes and rivers where these fish are found so that should tell you > something (fish never evolved as a result of having chemical additives in their > environment). > > Congrats on your new spawning, and continued good luck with them. Ray > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46749	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.

Not quite following - are these pumps suspended over the side of the aquarium? If so, loops in the cords wouldn't ahve stopped water from creeping up into the pump. However that is possible. Water is supposed to be in the pump. ???? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:57 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks. The following article should serve as a warning to all. When you have wiring around your tank, you should always create drip loops to prevent the water from reaching the electrical equipment or outlet. To create a drip loop is simple, one only needs to put an open loop in the electrical cord coming from the tank. This way, should water creep up the electrical cord. For whatever reason. It will drip off the lowest point of the loop, harmlessly to the floor or a device set up to capture the water before it reaches the floor. http://www.danapointtimes.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01ar ticleid=1233&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20%25Y&cntnt01returnid=51 http://tinyurl.com/ybbub5x Two Rescued in Dana Point House Fire February 12, 2010 By Andrea Swayne Two people were rescued from the second floor balcony of a single family home on the 34000 block of Camino El Molino in Dana Point this evening. Orange County firefighters responded to calls from neighbors reporting the blaze shortly after 7 p.m. They arrived to find Jenny and Jim Green out on the second story balcony of their home as thick black smoke poured from the house. "I had fallen asleep while watching TV upstairs and the smoke alarm woke me up," said Jenny. "I saw smoke pouring up the stairs so I went into the bedroom and woke my husband up and we went out on the balcony." "When we arrived on scene we saw to occupants out on the balcony so we immediately effected a rescue by throwing a 35 foot ladder up to the balcony, said firefighter Gerry Zeledon. "My engineer and I assisted the two occupants down the ladder." According to Zeladon the blaze was a two alarm fire resulting in roughly 40 firefighters on scene. "From what I saw inside, there was significant damage to both floors of the home," he said. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46750	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)

Hi Tricia, Well, we got that part figured out about your tank being in liters, even though it was nice for a short while to think of you tank as being nearly 4 times as large <g>. Thanks for posting with the explanation, but -- don't sweat the small stuff. No offense taken here. Watch out that, that MTS doesn't sneak up on you. Those snails can get out of hand . . . or, is it that other syndrome I was trying to warn you about (LOL). Best, Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46751	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)

Tricia, Most e-mail readers do allow the editing of messages, but it can be a pain in the backside to do so, depending on your reader. You can tell if a person is working online when you receive a message that is a reply to another message. The RE: appears after the list name in brackets, while the people who work offline will have the RE: prior to the list name in brackets. Those who are working online do not see the list name in the subject line. However, after the first reply, it can get somewhat confusing. There is no need to apologize. All you did was to give an excuse to, hopefully, politely point out the various skill levels of the people populating this list and the fact that if a person is working online, they cannot edit an e-mail that is not their own. Personally, I'll simply copy and paste the link to the browser's address bar, and edit there. I do note that you have a UK address, and probably a UK accent <g>. (This is another thing those who are working online do not see--the full e-mail address of the person they are replying to, nor is the full address available when you are reading messages online.) You may note that fish we talk about here in the US may not be as common in the UK, as the king blue tetras you speak of are not very common here at all, a Ray mentioned. One could go through their whole life here and never see one in a shop. Europe as a whole get fish that we never see here in the US. One of the reasons is that you guys over there are not as squeamish paying a high price for your fish as are the people in the US. There are other reasons as well, such as people traveling to the areas where the fish are and bringing them back with them, raising and breeding them \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tricia Garner Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank) Sorry, folks - I should have stated that the tank measurement is in litres. I think the stocking level is about right; having been mindful of all the comments on the list I am keen not to overstock with new fish, especially if we get the odd fry here and there. I know (have read) that Bleeding Heart Tetras and Corys are usually kept in greater numbers but so far ours seem very happy. We had five King Blue Tetras to start with, having fallen in love with them at the local aquatic centre, but they did not school so we got another five. Guess what - they still don't school! If we had the space I would love to have more tanks and have larger groups of fewer species in each but there are so many gorgeous fish I would soon be in the grip of MTS - that's the multiple tank syndrome definition, not Malaysian Trumpet Snails as we have loads of them already :-) Also I do apologise if my remarks about fixing broken links was seen as criticism. I was not suggesting anyone was not computer literate. Being self-taught myself I am only too well aware of my own shortcomings in regard to computing, but was curious to know what 'modern' email systems these days don't allow simple editing of incoming messages. My own preferred email program is as old as the hills but does allow it, and I have never used online email - as a mailing list junkie I would find it far too much hassle... Once again, I apologise for any offence caused and do assure you it was unintentional. Best wishes, -- Tricia ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46752	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.

Dora, Doesn't matter where the pumps are, just getting water into an outlet could mean trouble. However, and I am just guessing here, much of the marine aquaria equipment is placed on the floor or a low shelf beneath the water level. In freshwater aquaria, nearly all pumps outside the tank are below water level. The only exception I can immediately are the old Supreme AquaMaster filters, where the pump was above the filter, which placed it above water level. The submersible pumps are designed to be placed underwater, but without the drip loop the water can still reach the outlet, should the water start following the electrical cord. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks. Not quite following - are these pumps suspended over the side of the aquarium? If so, loops in the cords wouldn't ahve stopped water from creeping up into the pump. However that is possible. Water is supposed to be in the pump. ???? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:57 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks. The following article should serve as a warning to all. When you have wiring around your tank, you should always create drip loops to prevent the water from reaching the electrical equipment or outlet. To create a drip loop is simple, one only needs to put an open loop in the electrical cord coming from the tank. This way, should water creep up the electrical cord. For whatever reason. It will drip off the lowest point of the loop, harmlessly to the floor or a device set up to capture the water before it reaches the floor. http://www.danapointtimes.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01ar ticleid=1233&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20%25Y&cntnt01returnid=51 http://tinyurl.com/ybbub5x Two Rescued in Dana Point House Fire February 12, 2010 By Andrea Swayne Two people were rescued from the second floor balcony of a single family home on the 34000 block of Camino El Molino in Dana Point this evening. Orange County firefighters responded to calls from neighbors reporting the blaze shortly after 7 p.m. They arrived to find Jenny and Jim Green out on the second story balcony of their home as thick black smoke poured from the house. "I had fallen asleep while watching TV upstairs and the smoke alarm woke me up," said Jenny. "I saw smoke pouring up the stairs so I went into the bedroom and woke my husband up and we went out on the balcony." "When we arrived on scene we saw to occupants out on the balcony so we immediately effected a rescue by throwing a 35 foot ladder up to the balcony, said firefighter Gerry Zeledon. "My engineer and I assisted the two occupants down the ladder." According to Zeladon the blaze was a two alarm fire resulting in roughly 40 firefighters on scene. "From what I saw inside, there was significant damage to both floors of the home," he said. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46753	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.

Won't GFI or GFFI outlets prevent the possibility of fire? Sorry if I missed this already being answered...I've been a bit rushed with the posts. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Dora, > > Doesn't matter where the pumps are, just getting water into an > outlet could > mean trouble. However, and I am just guessing here, much of the marine > aquaria equipment is placed on the floor or a low shelf beneath the > water > level. In freshwater aquaria, nearly all pumps outside the tank are > below > water level. The only exception I can immediately are the old Supreme > AquaMaster filters, where the pump was above the filter, which > placed it > above water level. The submersible pumps are designed to be placed > underwater, but without the drip loop the water can still reach the > outlet, > should the water start following the electrical cord. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your > Tanks. > > Not quite following - are these pumps suspended over the side of the > aquarium? If so, loops in the cords wouldn't ahve stopped water from > creeping up into the pump. However that is possible. Water is > supposed to > > be in the pump. ???? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:57 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your > Tanks. > > The following article should serve as a warning to all. When you > have wiring > around your tank, you should always create drip loops to prevent > the water > from reaching the electrical equipment or outlet. To create a drip > loop is > simple, one only needs to put an open loop in the electrical cord > coming > from the tank. This way, should water creep up the electrical cord. > For > whatever reason. It will drip off the lowest point of the loop, > harmlessly > to the floor or a device set up to capture the water before it > reaches the > floor. > > http://www.danapointtimes.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail, > 0&cntnt01ar > ticleid=1233&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20% > 25Y&cntnt01returnid=51 > > http://tinyurl.com/ybbub5x > > Two Rescued in Dana Point House Fire > > February 12, 2010 > > By Andrea Swayne > > Two people were rescued from the second floor balcony of a single > family > home on the 34000 block of Camino El Molino in Dana Point this > evening. > > Orange County firefighters responded to calls from neighbors > reporting the > blaze shortly after 7 p.m. They arrived to find Jenny and Jim Green > out on > the second story balcony of their home as thick black smoke poured > from the > house. > > "I had fallen asleep while watching TV upstairs and the smoke alarm > woke me > up," said Jenny. "I saw smoke pouring up the stairs so I went into the > bedroom and woke my husband up and we went out on the balcony." > > "When we arrived on scene we saw to occupants out on the balcony so we > immediately effected a rescue by throwing a 35 foot ladder up to the > balcony, said firefighter Gerry Zeledon. "My engineer and I > assisted the two > occupants down the ladder." > > According to Zeladon the blaze was a two alarm fire resulting in > roughly 40 > firefighters on scene. "From what I saw inside, there was > significant damage > to both floors of the home," he said. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46754	From: bruce cohen	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.

gfi will not prevent a fire if  it all ready has the  elements fried.  but  When  i am doing my daily maintenance is that all of my electrical cords are wiped down as well as looking for any drips or  water  on the floor any thing that could start afire or cause a fall is what I am trying to prevent slips . --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 4:56 PM Won't GFI or GFFI outlets prevent the possibility of fire? Sorry if I  missed this already being answered...I've been a bit rushed with the  posts. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46755	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.

Possibly... depending on how the water got into the electrical system in the first place. While a GFCI would have tripped upon the water causing a short in the circuit, the wiring behind the GFCI would still be live, unless the GFCI was actually in the circuit breaker box, rather than just the wall outlet. If enough water was somehow flowing down the wiring into the wall outlet, even if the GFCI tripped, if the water was enough to flood the outlet box in the wall and/or all of the insulation in the wall, etc., then it could still have led to a short inside the wall. Really, this (aquarium related fire) is such a rare occasion and far more often, the electrical fires in homes are caused by normal every day appliances being faulty, than from aquariums and their related appliances.... or even more so from just a poor wiring job done in the first place when wiring the home, circuit breaker box and outlets. I wish I would have had my camera with me in every home we gutted after Katrina and some of the *unique* wiring jobs that we found inside of walls as we gutted homes... as well as the loose wires we found where they were supposed to be screwed down tightly to the outlets, circuit breakers, etc. You could see the burning inside circuit wall outlet boxes and circuit breaker boxes caused by the arcing over time and fortunately a fire never happened but they certainly could have. So... sleep soundly tonight, after checking the batteries in your smoke alarm... and keep a hammer near your aquarium so that IF there is an electrical fire inside of the wall behind your aquarium, just smash the back glass of the aquarium and let the flood of water put it out... didn't anyone else see "The Towering Inferno" (original version... I'm not sure if the remake used the same method to quash the fire)? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks. Won't GFI or GFFI outlets prevent the possibility of fire? Sorry if I missed this already being answered...I've been a bit rushed with the posts. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Dora, > > Doesn't matter where the pumps are, just getting water into an outlet > could mean trouble. However, and I am just guessing here, much of the > marine aquaria equipment is placed on the floor or a low shelf beneath > the water level. In freshwater aquaria, nearly all pumps outside the > tank are below water level. The only exception I can immediately are > the old Supreme AquaMaster filters, where the pump was above the > filter, which placed it above water level. The submersible pumps are > designed to be placed underwater, but without the drip loop the water > can still reach the outlet, should the water start following the > electrical cord. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your > Tanks. > > Not quite following - are these pumps suspended over the side of the > aquarium? If so, loops in the cords wouldn't ahve stopped water from > creeping up into the pump. However that is possible. Water is supposed > to > > be in the pump. ???? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:57 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your > Tanks. > > The following article should serve as a warning to all. When you have > wiring around your tank, you should always create drip loops to > prevent the water from reaching the electrical equipment or outlet. To > create a drip loop is simple, one only needs to put an open loop in > the electrical cord coming from the tank. This way, should water creep > up the electrical cord. > For > whatever reason. It will drip off the lowest point of the loop, > harmlessly to the floor or a device set up to capture the water before > it reaches the floor. > > http://www.danapointtimes.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail, > 0&cntnt01ar > ticleid=1233&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20% > 25Y&cntnt01returnid=51 > > http://tinyurl.com/ybbub5x > > Two Rescued in Dana Point House Fire > > February 12, 2010 > > By Andrea Swayne > > Two people were rescued from the second floor balcony of a single > family home on the 34000 block of Camino El Molino in Dana Point this > evening. > > Orange County firefighters responded to calls from neighbors reporting > the blaze shortly after 7 p.m. They arrived to find Jenny and Jim > Green out on the second story balcony of their home as thick black > smoke poured from the house. > > "I had fallen asleep while watching TV upstairs and the smoke alarm > woke me up," said Jenny. "I saw smoke pouring up the stairs so I went > into the bedroom and woke my husband up and we went out on the > balcony." > > "When we arrived on scene we saw to occupants out on the balcony so we > immediately effected a rescue by throwing a 35 foot ladder up to the > balcony, said firefighter Gerry Zeledon. "My engineer and I assisted > the two occupants down the ladder." > > According to Zeladon the blaze was a two alarm fire resulting in > roughly 40 firefighters on scene. "From what I saw inside, there was > significant damage to both floors of the home," he said. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46756	From: pam andress	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

Take a piece of styrofoam and set the clutch on it. Then float in your tank. They need the humidity of the tank to hatch. Don't make the styro too big. They need to reach the water as soon as possible after hatching. You can also watch the clutch and check it daily. If it is real soft, you can take it off. It will fall apart and rinse it in the water breaking it up and releasing the babies. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:29:56 -0900 Subject: [AquaticLife] Hatching your mystery snail eggs Okay so I have a ton of egg batches on my 125 gallon tank, but the female snails crawl up so high to lay the eggs on the lighting hood that the babies don't make it to the water after they hatch. What should I do if I want to scrape the egg batch off and hatch them in... say a bowl? Any tips helpful :) Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46757	From: pam andress	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

I'm here. I just answered in another email. Pam Raise the water level closer to the egg clusters. Do you have a tight enough fitting cover on the tank to keep the humidity level up in the air space between the water and the egg clusters? http://applesnail.net/content/care.php#breeding Where's Pam? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) Okay so I have a ton of egg batches on my 125 gallon tank, but the female snails crawl up so high to lay the eggs on the lighting hood that the babies don't make it to the water after they hatch. What should I do if I want to scrape the egg batch off and hatch them in... say a bowl? Any tips helpful :) Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46758	From: pam andress	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

Try the float method. If that doesn't work, then we can try something else. Pam > > I can't raise the water level, they are climbing up INTO the wooden > built hood which is a big open space above the tank with the lights > inside, there's nothing covering the top of the actual tank except that. > It's something home made that the previous owner built. It's a large > wooden box that sits over all the filter intakes/outtakes (with cut > outs) and has a flip open front door for PWC's and such. So these > females are climbing a foot or so up out of the water, and no there's > not enough humidity to reach that far. That's why I need to remove the > egg clusters and hatch them somewhere else myself. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Raise the water level closer to the egg clusters. Do you have a tight > > enough fitting cover on the tank to keep the humidity level up in the air > > space between the water and the egg clusters? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46759	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hatching your mystery snail eggs

Thanks Pam, I will find some styrofoam and try floating the eggs. Amber pam andress wrote: > > > Try the float method. If that doesn't work, then we can try something > else. > > Pam > > > > > I can't raise the water level, they are climbing up INTO the wooden > > built hood which is a big open space above the tank with the lights > > inside, there's nothing covering the top of the actual tank except > that. > > It's something home made that the previous owner built. It's a large > > wooden box that sits over all the filter intakes/outtakes (with cut > > outs) and has a flip open front door for PWC's and such. So these > > females are climbing a foot or so up out of the water, and no there's > > not enough humidity to reach that far. That's why I need to remove the > > egg clusters and hatch them somewhere else myself. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Raise the water level closer to the egg clusters. Do you have a tight > > > enough fitting cover on the tank to keep the humidity level up in > the air > > > space between the water and the egg clusters? > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46760	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks.

If the water shorts after the breaker, yes, if the water shorts the circuit before the breaker, no. After means that the current has already gone past the breaker. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your Tanks. Won't GFI or GFFI outlets prevent the possibility of fire? Sorry if I missed this already being answered...I've been a bit rushed with the posts. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Dora, > > Doesn't matter where the pumps are, just getting water into an > outlet could > mean trouble. However, and I am just guessing here, much of the marine > aquaria equipment is placed on the floor or a low shelf beneath the > water > level. In freshwater aquaria, nearly all pumps outside the tank are > below > water level. The only exception I can immediately are the old Supreme > AquaMaster filters, where the pump was above the filter, which > placed it > above water level. The submersible pumps are designed to be placed > underwater, but without the drip loop the water can still reach the > outlet, > should the water start following the electrical cord. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your > Tanks. > > Not quite following - are these pumps suspended over the side of the > aquarium? If so, loops in the cords wouldn't ahve stopped water from > creeping up into the pump. However that is possible. Water is > supposed to > > be in the pump. ???? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:57 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Warning About Electrical Wiring Around Your > Tanks. > > The following article should serve as a warning to all. When you > have wiring > around your tank, you should always create drip loops to prevent > the water > from reaching the electrical equipment or outlet. To create a drip > loop is > simple, one only needs to put an open loop in the electrical cord > coming > from the tank. This way, should water creep up the electrical cord. > For > whatever reason. It will drip off the lowest point of the loop, > harmlessly > to the floor or a device set up to capture the water before it > reaches the > floor. > > http://www.danapointtimes.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail, > 0&cntnt01ar > ticleid=1233&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20% > 25Y&cntnt01returnid=51 > > http://tinyurl.com/ybbub5x > > Two Rescued in Dana Point House Fire > > February 12, 2010 > > By Andrea Swayne > > Two people were rescued from the second floor balcony of a single > family > home on the 34000 block of Camino El Molino in Dana Point this > evening. > > Orange County firefighters responded to calls from neighbors > reporting the > blaze shortly after 7 p.m. They arrived to find Jenny and Jim Green > out on > the second story balcony of their home as thick black smoke poured > from the > house. > > "I had fallen asleep while watching TV upstairs and the smoke alarm > woke me > up," said Jenny. "I saw smoke pouring up the stairs so I went into the > bedroom and woke my husband up and we went out on the balcony." > > "When we arrived on scene we saw to occupants out on the balcony so we > immediately effected a rescue by throwing a 35 foot ladder up to the > balcony, said firefighter Gerry Zeledon. "My engineer and I > assisted the two > occupants down the ladder." > > According to Zeladon the blaze was a two alarm fire resulting in > roughly 40 > firefighters on scene. "From what I saw inside, there was > significant damage > to both floors of the home," he said. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46761	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/14/2010
Subject: Re: What lives in a Cubic Foot

Thanks for not leaving them out Lenny! They said they cannot wait for Mardi Gras ;) Fish content. Anyone here able to see Chuck Rambo's Dwarf Cichlid talk last night at the PCCA? I saw the first half and then got a phone call and missed the last half. -Mike PS. Yes Lenny, I sent it twice :( -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 1:09 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] What lives in a Cubic Foot   I think Cubic's Rube would have been the best reply. ;-) It is "Correct Ray Day".... right? LOL Happy Valentine's Day to all the ladies out here.... and to the not-so-lady-like even more! ;-) Mike.... That doesn't mean some of your TG friends out there in San Francisco! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] What lives in a Cubic Foot Lenny, The only thing you forgot was Rubik's Cube (or is it Rubik's Cubic?) -- HaHaHaHa. For those not familiar with this "game," it was a hand-held 3-D mechanical puzzle (about 3" in each dimension) that was invented in the Spring of 1974. The object was to realign all the individual small panels on all 6 faces of the cube after you mixed them up, and it was no easy chore in doing so. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46762	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Tricia's Tank (was: Filter for new ram fry tank)

Steve, thanks for the explanation of how to tell if a person is working offline or online. I can see what you mean about it getting confusing after the first reply! It gets worse, because some years ago the author of my email program produced a patch to remove all the advertising stuff at the end of Yahoo mails and it also removes the 'Re'... I had forgotten that those working online will not be able to see the full address, and should have mentioned that I am in the UK - and yes, I do have a UK accent! Quite clearly there are some fish which are more readily available in the USA than here, and vice versa. The king blue tetras were quite new to our supplier when we saw them but not horribly expensive. We (my husband Alan and me) are not anxious to spend shed loads of money on delicate fish at this stage in the hobby! That said, I do look wistfully at the marine tanks when we visit the nearby aquatic centre. So many fish and so little time! Regards, -- Tricia Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46763	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: MTS and green hair algae

Hi Ray et al, I'm just about resisting getting more tanks but the Malaysian Trumpet Snails are already out of hand! Is there a recommended way to control them? The other problem which has recently surfaced is green hair algae. It isn't too bad as I keep removing as much as possible, but I am concerned about it taking over. We felt the light was too low so put some reflectors on and pruned the overgrown plants. It was after that when the algae appeared. I guess we shouldn't have done both things at once, but at least we can now see the fish! They still have plenty of hiding places, though. -- Tricia If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46764	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae

Hi Tricia, Your Malaysian Trumpet Snail problem is not as easily solved as some other snail infestations due to their harder shell as they grow. Of course, most snails will secumb to chemical products that will kill them but such additives are always to be avoided whenever possible. Usually, such fish as Weather (Dojo) Loaches, and Clown Loaches will at least eat the smaller ones but even these notorious snail eaters have problems with the larger ones. You could try floating a lettuce leaf overnight, using a new piece each time to avoid their decay. You can remove this leaf in the morning with whatever snails have attached to it. Once you get the larger ones out of there, the Loaches should eventually take care of the much smaller one, and it's these that you need to be most concerned about as even though you can physically remove all the larger ones by hand if it really comes down to it, it's the newly hatched and smaller ones that will reinfest your tank if you don't have fish in there to eliminate them at that stage. As Clown Loaches can grow large (12" or more), it's best to make some kind of a pre-arrangement with your LFS to do trade ins when yours get too big. Now as for the green hair algae, for starters Malaysian Trumpet Snails will consume this, but of course cannot be expected to when it gets out of balance. Test for your tap water parameters to get it's base readings. Allowing it to sit overnight to off-gas before making your tests is usually the way to go, although here we are mianly looking for your nitrate level of it, if any. Assuming there's no ammonia or nitrite in this water, or very minute amounts -- and your nitrate is minimal -- I would recommend started a regimen of larger and more frequent water changes as a start in helping to starve out this algae until your plants can once again take over that chore -- but we don't want to feed this algae if your tap water contains nutrients. Again, as with the snail problem, there are fish which will eat this -- among them are the "dwarf" Plecos (Bushy-nosed Ancistrus catfish). Fortunately, if no other methods work, such as reducing your lighting, etc., this is one algae that will be eliminated with the use of Seachem's Flourish Excel (a plant food -- "Liquid Carbon"). By dosing the tank every other day for up to a week (or often much less), you'll see this algae die off, at which point it should be easily removable and shouldn't return. A caveat here though -- more delicate leved plants such as Vallisneria, Cabomba or even many Crypts will melt when this is used. If and when you do decide to use it -- having established it's safe for your plants (as it would be for most since that's it's main purpose) -- add it early in the morning to avoid the light-less hours of the night when you plants will only add to the CO2 level instead of using it. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46765	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae

There are much smaller loaches that eat MTS, look for any type of loach with "Botia" in it's scientific name, from what I've read all Botia's enjoy eating snails. You don't have to get the big clown loaches to have them eat your MTS. I have 4 Botia Kubotia and I've noticed they are eating some of my MTS in my 125 gallon tank. Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Tricia, Your Malaysian Trumpet Snail problem is not as easily > solved as > some other snail infestations due to their harder shell as they grow. Of > course, most snails will secumb to chemical products that will kill > them but > such additives are always to be avoided whenever possible. Usually, such > fish as Weather (Dojo) Loaches, and Clown Loaches will at least eat the > smaller ones but even these notorious snail eaters have problems with > the larger > ones. You could try floating a lettuce leaf overnight, using a new piece > each time to avoid their decay. You can remove this leaf in the > morning with > whatever snails have attached to it. > > Once you get the larger ones out of there, the Loaches should eventually > take care of the much smaller one, and it's these that you need to be > most > concerned about as even though you can physically remove all the > larger ones by > hand if it really comes down to it, it's the newly hatched and smaller > ones > that will reinfest your tank if you don't have fish in there to eliminate > them at that stage. > > As Clown Loaches can grow large (12" or more), it's best to make some > kind > of a pre-arrangement with your LFS to do trade ins when yours get too big. > > Now as for the green hair algae, for starters Malaysian Trumpet Snails > will > consume this, but of course cannot be expected to when it gets out of > balance. Test for your tap water parameters to get it's base readings. > Allowing > it to sit overnight to off-gas before making your tests is usually the > way > to go, although here we are mianly looking for your nitrate level of > it, if > any. Assuming there's no ammonia or nitrite in this water, or very minute > amounts -- and your nitrate is minimal -- I would recommend started a > regimen > of larger and more frequent water changes as a start in helping to starve > out this algae until your plants can once again take over that chore > -- but > we don't want to feed this algae if your tap water contains nutrients. > > Again, as with the snail problem, there are fish which will eat this -- > among them are the "dwarf" Plecos (Bushy-nosed Ancistrus catfish). > Fortunately, if no other methods work, such as reducing your lighting, > etc., this is > one algae that will be eliminated with the use of Seachem's Flourish > Excel (a > plant food -- "Liquid Carbon"). By dosing the tank every other day for up > to a week (or often much less), you'll see this algae die off, at > which point > it should be easily removable and shouldn't return. A caveat here though > -- more delicate leved plants such as Vallisneria, Cabomba or even many > Crypts will melt when this is used. If and when you do decide to use > it -- > having established it's safe for your plants (as it would be for most > since > that's it's main purpose) -- add it early in the morning to avoid the > light-less > hours of the night when you plants will only add to the CO2 level > instead of > using it. Ray </HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46766	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae

If prearranged with your LFS for trading in as the fish grows, its size in one's tank is only determined by one's scheduling in returning it, and the size it's allowed to grow to by the owner. If the tank will support it, a larger Loach will take care of larger MTS's, which can be an important point if being over-run by larger snails. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46767	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae

Anacharis is also sensitive to Seachem's Flourish Excel. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 6:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] MTS and green hair algae Hi Tricia, Your Malaysian Trumpet Snail problem is not as easily solved as some other snail infestations due to their harder shell as they grow. Of course, most snails will secumb to chemical products that will kill them but such additives are always to be avoided whenever possible. Usually, such fish as Weather (Dojo) Loaches, and Clown Loaches will at least eat the smaller ones but even these notorious snail eaters have problems with the larger ones. You could try floating a lettuce leaf overnight, using a new piece each time to avoid their decay. You can remove this leaf in the morning with whatever snails have attached to it. Once you get the larger ones out of there, the Loaches should eventually take care of the much smaller one, and it's these that you need to be most concerned about as even though you can physically remove all the larger ones by hand if it really comes down to it, it's the newly hatched and smaller ones that will reinfest your tank if you don't have fish in there to eliminate them at that stage. As Clown Loaches can grow large (12" or more), it's best to make some kind of a pre-arrangement with your LFS to do trade ins when yours get too big. Now as for the green hair algae, for starters Malaysian Trumpet Snails will consume this, but of course cannot be expected to when it gets out of balance. Test for your tap water parameters to get it's base readings. Allowing it to sit overnight to off-gas before making your tests is usually the way to go, although here we are mianly looking for your nitrate level of it, if any. Assuming there's no ammonia or nitrite in this water, or very minute amounts -- and your nitrate is minimal -- I would recommend started a regimen of larger and more frequent water changes as a start in helping to starve out this algae until your plants can once again take over that chore -- but we don't want to feed this algae if your tap water contains nutrients. Again, as with the snail problem, there are fish which will eat this -- among them are the "dwarf" Plecos (Bushy-nosed Ancistrus catfish). Fortunately, if no other methods work, such as reducing your lighting, etc., this is one algae that will be eliminated with the use of Seachem's Flourish Excel (a plant food -- "Liquid Carbon"). By dosing the tank every other day for up to a week (or often much less), you'll see this algae die off, at which point it should be easily removable and shouldn't return. A caveat here though -- more delicate leved plants such as Vallisneria, Cabomba or even many Crypts will melt when this is used. If and when you do decide to use it -- having established it's safe for your plants (as it would be for most since that's it's main purpose) -- add it early in the morning to avoid the light-less hours of the night when you plants will only add to the CO2 level instead of using it. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46768	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae

I agree there, just wish all LFS's traded in fish... Mine will take it for free but not give you anything in return, LOL (what a great deal for them there). Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > If prearranged with your LFS for trading in as the fish grows, its > size in > one's tank is only determined by one's scheduling in returning it, and > the > size it's allowed to grow to by the owner. If the tank will support it, a > larger Loach will take care of larger MTS's, which can be an important > point > if being over-run by larger snails. Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46769	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: into and question on crabs

Hi, my name is Amanda. I have a small tank that we set up for my daughter this year (more for me, but dont tell her that) and she wanted this crab from Walmart, so now we have this crab that we were told was a fiddler crab but today there is a patch of weird egg looking things on the top of my tank, a cluster of at least 30 and they are pinksih/ skin colored. Just wondering if anyone could help me identify these eggs and figure out what i need to do with them. They are outside the water on the top lid of the tank. i researched a little on fiddler crab eggs and it says they carry them on their bodies and then release them in the water so now im thinking it might be a different type of crab. Any ideas? Thanks!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46770	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: into and question on crabs UPDATE

ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46771	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs above the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily take over your entire tank if they all survive. Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can be found at: www.applesnail.net Amber ker11306 wrote: > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of > my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw one > about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We do > have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about that > laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it never > crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? lol > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46772	From: William M	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs

Do you have any mystery snails in the tank? if so then they are probably mystery snails eggs. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ker11306" <ker11306@...> wrote: > > Hi, my name is Amanda. I have a small tank that we set up for my daughter this year (more for me, but dont tell her that) and she wanted this crab from Walmart, so now we have this crab that we were told was a fiddler crab but today there is a patch of weird egg looking things on the top of my tank, a cluster of at least 30 and they are pinksih/ skin colored. Just wondering if anyone could help me identify these eggs and figure out what i need to do with them. They are outside the water on the top lid of the tank. i researched a little on fiddler crab eggs and it says they carry them on their bodies and then release them in the water so now im thinking it might be a different type of crab. Any ideas? Thanks!! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46773	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Rams in 20 long

Phew - I moved the babies into the 20 long. I did everything to maintain the temperature during the transfer at 84. I transfered 24 healthy fry. But now, I am traumatized from the last incident where the temps dropped and twenty babies died a week later. Should I expect half of these ones to die next week due to the stress of the transfer? They have their sponge filter from the ten gallon tank and all the water and plants came with them. Plus they have an AquaClear HOB in addition to the sponge. I'm nervous! Also, I'm wondering about introducing frozen foods but worried they will spoil if uneaten - is it time to start frozen now? Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46774	From: William M	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae

Most people that have an overabundance of snails are usually overfeeding their fishes. If you feed ore sparingly and do gravel cleaning with your more frequent water changes the snail problem will probably lessen. Another choice is to get some Assassin snails (Anetoma helena) which are snails that need both sexes to breed and then they do not breed very fast. If they run out of snails they will eat other foods that other snails will eat.Or you could try to find some dwarf crawfish (Cambarellus species) that are not plant eaters but will eat small snails. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I agree there, just wish all LFS's traded in fish... Mine will take it > for free but not give you anything in return, LOL (what a great deal for > them there). > > Amber > > sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > If prearranged with your LFS for trading in as the fish grows, its > > size in > > one's tank is only determined by one's scheduling in returning it, and > > the > > size it's allowed to grow to by the owner. If the tank will support it, a > > larger Loach will take care of larger MTS's, which can be an important > > point > > if being over-run by larger snails. Ray</HTML> > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46775	From: harry perry	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long/Lainey

You said plants in your post. The fry tank would be much easier to keep clean without gravel. Harry --- On Mon, 2/15/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 6:36 PM   Phew - I moved the babies into the 20 long. I did everything to maintain the temperature during the transfer at 84. I transfered 24 healthy fry. But now, I am traumatized from the last incident where the temps dropped and twenty babies died a week later. Should I expect half of these ones to die next week due to the stress of the transfer? They have their sponge filter from the ten gallon tank and all the water and plants came with them. Plus they have an AquaClear HOB in addition to the sponge. I'm nervous! Also, I'm wondering about introducing frozen foods but worried they will spoil if uneaten - is it time to start frozen now? Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46776	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long/Lainey

No gravel, floating plants. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 15, 2010, at 6:48 PM, harry perry wrote: > You said plants in your post. The fry tank would be much easier to > keep clean without gravel. > > Harry > > --- On Mon, 2/15/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 6:36 PM > > > > Phew - > > I moved the babies into the 20 long. I did everything to maintain the > > temperature during the transfer at 84. I transfered 24 healthy fry. > > But now, I am traumatized from the last incident where the temps > > dropped and twenty babies died a week later. Should I expect half of > > these ones to die next week due to the stress of the transfer? > > They have their sponge filter from the ten gallon tank and all the > > water and plants came with them. Plus they have an AquaClear HOB in > > addition to the sponge. > > I'm nervous! > > Also, I'm wondering about introducing frozen foods but worried they > > will spoil if uneaten - is it time to start frozen now? > > Thanks very much, > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46777	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

I'm concerned about your "Fiddler Crab" since they are a saltwater/brackish water crab with dozens of species that *look* like a common Fiddler Crab. As far as I know, there are no true freshwater crabs although I'm sure there may be some out there... just not very common. The other thing about Fiddler Crabs is that they are amphibious or rather semi-terrestrial so they need rocks or something to climb up on to get out of the water. I'm not sure of any really good and reliable profiles on them yet so I would suggest starter reading with these articles. http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab If you concur that your crab is one of these saltwater/brackish water species, then you should return it to the pet store ASAP so that it does not die in your aquarium since long term exposure to freshwater will cause them harm... or start eating your fish while it is alive since they are mostly carnivorous. They are mostly scavengers that will look for a dead fish or shrimp but I'm sure they'll go after live fish if they get hungry enough. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] into and question on crabs UPDATE If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs above the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily take over your entire tank if they all survive. Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can be found at: www.applesnail.net Amber ker11306 wrote: > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of > my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw one > about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We do > have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about that > laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it never > crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? lol >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46778	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long

If you made the switch in under an hour, then the water should have maintained it's temperature. Did you happen to test it with a thermometer to see if it did? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long Phew - I moved the babies into the 20 long. I did everything to maintain the temperature during the transfer at 84. I transfered 24 healthy fry. But now, I am traumatized from the last incident where the temps dropped and twenty babies died a week later. Should I expect half of these ones to die next week due to the stress of the transfer? They have their sponge filter from the ten gallon tank and all the water and plants came with them. Plus they have an AquaClear HOB in addition to the sponge. I'm nervous! Also, I'm wondering about introducing frozen foods but worried they will spoil if uneaten - is it time to start frozen now? Thanks very much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46779	From: Christine	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Brackish?

What is the best formula for creating brackish water? How do you test it? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46780	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the eggs are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very helpful. Thanks!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs above > the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually > hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more snails > then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay as many > as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily take over > your entire tank if they all survive. > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can be > found at: > www.applesnail.net > > Amber > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of > > my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw one > > about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We do > > have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about that > > laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it never > > crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? lol > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46781	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?

Well, brackish water would not be good for the rest of your fish nor your Mystery Snail. If you want to set up a brackish tank, then you will be limited to the fish that you keep however there are many that are available. What else do you have in the tank right now besides the crab and the snail? I have some good websites with info on setting up a brackish water biotope but I'll wait to hear back from you about your other fish and whether you are willing to part with all of them in order to maintain a brackish water tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brackish? What is the best formula for creating brackish water? How do you test it? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46782	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long

Yes, I used two thermometers and actually warmed up my RO replacement water to the proper temperature. I know the temperature stayed near 84 the whole time, which was under an hour. What I'm asking is, would just the stress of the transfer, catching with a net, chasing them around, getting a new tank - would that type of stress be enough to kill a bunch of them? For example, I caught all the ones I could see, then drained the ten gallon down to about one gallon and realized there were two more fish in there. So those two got even more stressed out than the others, but none of them were too happy with the netting. They're very nervous in general. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 15, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > If you made the switch in under an hour, then the water should have > maintained it's temperature. Did you happen to test it with a > thermometer > to see if it did? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long > > Phew - > > I moved the babies into the 20 long. I did everything to maintain the > temperature during the transfer at 84. I transfered 24 healthy fry. > > But now, I am traumatized from the last incident where the temps > dropped and > twenty babies died a week later. Should I expect half of these ones > to die > next week due to the stress of the transfer? > > They have their sponge filter from the ten gallon tank and all the > water and > plants came with them. Plus they have an AquaClear HOB in addition > to the > sponge. > > I'm nervous! > > Also, I'm wondering about introducing frozen foods but worried they > will > spoil if uneaten - is it time to start frozen now? > > Thanks very much, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46783	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

i do think it is a fiddler crab and being that it was from walmart and they do not have the crabs anymore i doubt they will take it back. I could get some salt for the water, but then i have to find fish that can tolerate it too. Right now i have one snail and one small angel fish. We do have a rock that he can get out of the water which she does often. I think i have i mild mannered crab because she does not mess with the fish even a dead before i got it out, she just walked right over it and didnt mess with it. The lady at petco said that because they were raised for aquariums they most likely never have had to kill fish to get food and would most likely starve before they did that, the females anyways. Thats just what she said and theres no telling whether she knows what shes talking about or not. At this point, i guess i could find some fish that can tolerate some salt and see if i can have them all together. It has been a month since we have had him in freshwater, not sure if adding salt at this point would be harder on the crabs system then trying to tolerate the freshwater, Ill have to do some research ... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm concerned about your "Fiddler Crab" since they are a saltwater/brackish > water crab with dozens of species that *look* like a common Fiddler Crab. > > As far as I know, there are no true freshwater crabs although I'm sure there > may be some out there... just not very common. The other thing about > Fiddler Crabs is that they are amphibious or rather semi-terrestrial so they > need rocks or something to climb up on to get out of the water. I'm not > sure of any really good and reliable profiles on them yet so I would suggest > starter reading with these articles. > http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm and > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab > > If you concur that your crab is one of these saltwater/brackish water > species, then you should return it to the pet store ASAP so that it does not > die in your aquarium since long term exposure to freshwater will cause them > harm... or start eating your fish while it is alive since they are mostly > carnivorous. They are mostly scavengers that will look for a dead fish or > shrimp but I'm sure they'll go after live fish if they get hungry enough. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] into and question on crabs UPDATE > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs above the > water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually hatch in > about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more snails then I would > reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay as many as 200-600 > eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily take over your entire tank > if they all survive. > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can be found > at: > www.applesnail.net > > Amber > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of > > my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw one > > about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We do > > have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about that > > laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it never > > crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? lol > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46784	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

Female Mystery Snails can carry sperm from a previous mating for up to six months and lay several clutches of fertilized eggs from that previous mating so there's always the chance that the eggs are fertilized. I see in another post that you have an Angelfish, the snail and the fiddler crab so you have to decide on whether you want the snail or not since the snail is not compatible with your other two. Neither Angelfish nor Mystery Snails will tolerate brackish water conditions needed as a minimum for the crab. What size tank do you have? What are your baseline water parameters? Not right out the tap but after the tap water has been allowed to sit out at room temp for 24 to 48 hours to see what it is like after it outgasses any gasses that are in the water when it's in the pipes. See my blog article on "Find your tap/source water baseline". If you are intent on keeping all three species that you have, you could get a 10G tank set-up, at WalMart, for a relatively low cost, which would include the tank, filter and lighting... and possibly some accessories. You shouldn't need a heater since saltwater/brackish water will usually be colder than tropical/room temperatures anyhow. Then you could set that up as a brackish water biotope with some land mass, the crab and even add some fish like guppies or mollies which do well in brackish water. You would have to slowly acclimate them from freshwater to brackish water but once they are acclimated, they should be fine... and then the crab will help to keep down the population of the guppies/mollies... or just get all males so you don't have the issue and maintenance headaches of overcrowding a 10G with lots of babies. Here's a couple of GOOD articles on starting up a brackish tank/biotope. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_cen_america_estuary.htm http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_Biotop e.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ker11306 Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the eggs are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very helpful. Thanks!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs above > the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually > hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more > snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay > as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily > take over your entire tank if they all survive. > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can be > found at: > www.applesnail.net > > Amber > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of > > my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw > > one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We > > do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about > > that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it > > never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? > > lol > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46785	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

Fiddler crabs also need a higher pH and calcium content in the water so their shells do not deteriorate (same with your mystery snail), but I don't think your snail will tolerate as much salt as the fiddler crab will need, so one is going to have to go. You might be toward the end of your fiddler crabs lifespan if it has been in freshwater for more than a month, websites state that they can't normally survive more than a few weeks in freshwater before they weaken and die. Is your crab still active and eating the food you give it? Has it shed it's shell at all? Amber ker11306 wrote: > > i do think it is a fiddler crab and being that it was from walmart and > they do not have the crabs anymore i doubt they will take it back. I > could get some salt for the water, but then i have to find fish that > can tolerate it too. Right now i have one snail and one small angel > fish. We do have a rock that he can get out of the water which she > does often. I think i have i mild mannered crab because she does not > mess with the fish even a dead before i got it out, she just walked > right over it and didnt mess with it. The lady at petco said that > because they were raised for aquariums they most likely never have had > to kill fish to get food and would most likely starve before they did > that, the females anyways. Thats just what she said and theres no > telling whether she knows what shes talking about or not. At this > point, i guess i could find some fish that can tolerate some salt and > see if i can have them all together. It has been a month since we have > had him in freshwater, not sure if adding salt at this point would be > harder on the crabs system then trying to tolerate the freshwater, Ill > have to do some research ... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > I'm concerned about your "Fiddler Crab" since they are a > saltwater/brackish > > water crab with dozens of species that *look* like a common Fiddler > Crab. > > > > As far as I know, there are no true freshwater crabs although I'm > sure there > > may be some out there... just not very common. The other thing about > > Fiddler Crabs is that they are amphibious or rather semi-terrestrial > so they > > need rocks or something to climb up on to get out of the water. I'm not > > sure of any really good and reliable profiles on them yet so I would > suggest > > starter reading with these articles. > > http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm > <http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm> and > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab> > > > > If you concur that your crab is one of these saltwater/brackish water > > species, then you should return it to the pet store ASAP so that it > does not > > die in your aquarium since long term exposure to freshwater will > cause them > > harm... or start eating your fish while it is alive since they are > mostly > > carnivorous. They are mostly scavengers that will look for a dead > fish or > > shrimp but I'm sure they'll go after live fish if they get hungry > enough. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:21 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] into and question on crabs UPDATE > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > above the > > water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually > hatch in > > about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more snails then > I would > > reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay as many as 200-600 > > eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily take over your > entire tank > > if they all survive. > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can > be found > > at: > > www.applesnail.net > > > > Amber > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of > > > my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw one > > > about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We do > > > have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about > that > > > laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it never > > > crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? lol > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46786	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long

Well, there's always the chance but fish are netted and moved all the time without massive losses. It's usually the acclimation procedure done by the folks moving the fish that cause far more stress than the netting itself. Since you worked hard to have their water parameters identical, you should be fine. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long Yes, I used two thermometers and actually warmed up my RO replacement water to the proper temperature. I know the temperature stayed near 84 the whole time, which was under an hour. What I'm asking is, would just the stress of the transfer, catching with a net, chasing them around, getting a new tank - would that type of stress be enough to kill a bunch of them? For example, I caught all the ones I could see, then drained the ten gallon down to about one gallon and realized there were two more fish in there. So those two got even more stressed out than the others, but none of them were too happy with the netting. They're very nervous in general. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 15, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > If you made the switch in under an hour, then the water should have > maintained it's temperature. Did you happen to test it with a > thermometer to see if it did? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long > > Phew - > > I moved the babies into the 20 long. I did everything to maintain the > temperature during the transfer at 84. I transfered 24 healthy fry. > > But now, I am traumatized from the last incident where the temps > dropped and twenty babies died a week later. Should I expect half of > these ones to die next week due to the stress of the transfer? > > They have their sponge filter from the ten gallon tank and all the > water and plants came with them. Plus they have an AquaClear HOB in > addition to the sponge. > > I'm nervous! > > Also, I'm wondering about introducing frozen foods but worried they > will spoil if uneaten - is it time to start frozen now? > > Thanks very much, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46787	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Ramshorn snail

I have one lone ramshorn snail in my 37 gallon tank - he came in on a plant as a baby. Now he's about an inch or more. I really like him, but I am reading unfavorable information about them, like that they eat plants and carry flukes. Is this just an all around bad snail to have in a planted tank? Or can I keep the little guy:) Thanks for feedback... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46788	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

Fiddler shrimp like temps between 75-85F, from the sites I found... perhaps cooler would be fine too, but they are found near the shore where it should be warmer. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Female Mystery Snails can carry sperm from a previous mating for up to six > months and lay several clutches of fertilized eggs from that previous > mating > so there's always the chance that the eggs are fertilized. > > I see in another post that you have an Angelfish, the snail and the > fiddler > crab so you have to decide on whether you want the snail or not since the > snail is not compatible with your other two. Neither Angelfish nor Mystery > Snails will tolerate brackish water conditions needed as a minimum for the > crab. > > What size tank do you have? > > What are your baseline water parameters? Not right out the tap but after > the tap water has been allowed to sit out at room temp for 24 to 48 > hours to > see what it is like after it outgasses any gasses that are in the > water when > it's in the pipes. See my blog article on "Find your tap/source water > baseline". > > If you are intent on keeping all three species that you have, you > could get > a 10G tank set-up, at WalMart, for a relatively low cost, which would > include the tank, filter and lighting... and possibly some > accessories. You > shouldn't need a heater since saltwater/brackish water will usually be > colder than tropical/room temperatures anyhow. Then you could set that up > as a brackish water biotope with some land mass, the crab and even add > some > fish like guppies or mollies which do well in brackish water. You would > have to slowly acclimate them from freshwater to brackish water but once > they are acclimated, they should be fine... and then the crab will help to > keep down the population of the guppies/mollies... or just get all > males so > you don't have the issue and maintenance headaches of overcrowding a 10G > with lots of babies. > > Here's a couple of GOOD articles on starting up a brackish tank/biotope. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html> > > http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_cen_america_estuary.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_cen_america_estuary.htm> > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_Biotop > <http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_Biotop> > e.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of ker11306 > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the eggs > are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very helpful. > Thanks!! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs above > > the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually > > hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more > > snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay > > as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily > > take over your entire tank if they all survive. > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can be > > found at: > > www.applesnail.net > > > > Amber > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of > > > my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw > > > one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We > > > do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about > > > that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it > > > never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? > > > lol > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46789	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

MAKE THEM TAKE IT BACK!!! I typed in all caps as that may be what you need to do to... SCREAM AT THEM... to make them take it back. Or, if you want another tank, MAKE THEM GIVE YOU A DISCOUNT on a 10G complete tank set up. ;-) It may take a little acting to act outraged that they would sell a saltwater species as a freshwater species but it can be done. Remember that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If it was me, I might even drop PeTA and contacting them about picketing the store. LOL I would never actually do that but sometimes, it's the thought that counts. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ker11306 Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE i do think it is a fiddler crab and being that it was from walmart and they do not have the crabs anymore i doubt they will take it back. I could get some salt for the water, but then i have to find fish that can tolerate it too. Right now i have one snail and one small angel fish. We do have a rock that he can get out of the water which she does often. I think i have i mild mannered crab because she does not mess with the fish even a dead before i got it out, she just walked right over it and didnt mess with it. The lady at petco said that because they were raised for aquariums they most likely never have had to kill fish to get food and would most likely starve before they did that, the females anyways. Thats just what she said and theres no telling whether she knows what shes talking about or not. At this point, i guess i could find some fish that can tolerate some salt and see if i can have them all together. It has been a month since we have had him in freshwater, not sure if adding salt at this point would be harder on the crabs system then trying to tolerate the freshwater, Ill have to do some research ... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I'm concerned about your "Fiddler Crab" since they are a > saltwater/brackish water crab with dozens of species that *look* like a common Fiddler Crab. > > As far as I know, there are no true freshwater crabs although I'm sure > there may be some out there... just not very common. The other thing > about Fiddler Crabs is that they are amphibious or rather > semi-terrestrial so they need rocks or something to climb up on to get > out of the water. I'm not sure of any really good and reliable > profiles on them yet so I would suggest starter reading with these articles. > http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm and > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab > > If you concur that your crab is one of these saltwater/brackish water > species, then you should return it to the pet store ASAP so that it > does not die in your aquarium since long term exposure to freshwater > will cause them harm... or start eating your fish while it is alive > since they are mostly carnivorous. They are mostly scavengers that > will look for a dead fish or shrimp but I'm sure they'll go after live fish if they get hungry enough. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] into and question on crabs UPDATE > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs above > the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually > hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more > snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay > as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily > take over your entire tank if they all survive. > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can be > found > at: > www.applesnail.net > > Amber > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of > > my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw > > one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We > > do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about > > that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it > > never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? > > lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46790	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?

It was actually someone else who asked about setting up a brackish tank, i am the one with the snail and crab (also one angelfish in with them) and i have already researched a few good sites on making my tank brackish for my crab but im assuming my angelfish wont tolerate it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, brackish water would not be good for the rest of your fish nor your > Mystery Snail. > > If you want to set up a brackish tank, then you will be limited to the fish > that you keep however there are many that are available. > > What else do you have in the tank right now besides the crab and the snail? > > I have some good websites with info on setting up a brackish water biotope > but I'll wait to hear back from you about your other fish and whether you > are willing to part with all of them in order to maintain a brackish water > tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Christine > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Brackish? > > What is the best formula for creating brackish water? How do you test it? > Thanks! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46791	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

im leaning towards not setting up a brackish tank because like someone posted, being that i have had the crab for a month in freshwater i dont think she will last much longer and im not sure she could tolerate the switch or it might be too late. She does still move around but she is not as active as she was and mostly stays out of the water on the rock or buried under the gravel under the rock and doesnt eat as much but still eats some. It was only $3.00 for the crab so im not worried about the money back for it but it is worth throwing a fit about because its sad that the crab has to die and i already have other fish, so i shouldnt have to choose but on the other hand i should have researched it before i bought but when they are in the tank with the other fish it is kind of deceiving. Really cool little crab though :( wish i knew whether she could tolerate the switch to brackish and would survive before i get rid of my others to try it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Fiddler crabs also need a higher pH and calcium content in the water so > their shells do not deteriorate (same with your mystery snail), but I > don't think your snail will tolerate as much salt as the fiddler crab > will need, so one is going to have to go. > You might be toward the end of your fiddler crabs lifespan if it has > been in freshwater for more than a month, websites state that they can't > normally survive more than a few weeks in freshwater before they weaken > and die. > Is your crab still active and eating the food you give it? Has it shed > it's shell at all? > > Amber > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > i do think it is a fiddler crab and being that it was from walmart and > > they do not have the crabs anymore i doubt they will take it back. I > > could get some salt for the water, but then i have to find fish that > > can tolerate it too. Right now i have one snail and one small angel > > fish. We do have a rock that he can get out of the water which she > > does often. I think i have i mild mannered crab because she does not > > mess with the fish even a dead before i got it out, she just walked > > right over it and didnt mess with it. The lady at petco said that > > because they were raised for aquariums they most likely never have had > > to kill fish to get food and would most likely starve before they did > > that, the females anyways. Thats just what she said and theres no > > telling whether she knows what shes talking about or not. At this > > point, i guess i could find some fish that can tolerate some salt and > > see if i can have them all together. It has been a month since we have > > had him in freshwater, not sure if adding salt at this point would be > > harder on the crabs system then trying to tolerate the freshwater, Ill > > have to do some research ... > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm concerned about your "Fiddler Crab" since they are a > > saltwater/brackish > > > water crab with dozens of species that *look* like a common Fiddler > > Crab. > > > > > > As far as I know, there are no true freshwater crabs although I'm > > sure there > > > may be some out there... just not very common. The other thing about > > > Fiddler Crabs is that they are amphibious or rather semi-terrestrial > > so they > > > need rocks or something to climb up on to get out of the water. I'm not > > > sure of any really good and reliable profiles on them yet so I would > > suggest > > > starter reading with these articles. > > > http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm > > <http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm> and > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab> > > > > > > If you concur that your crab is one of these saltwater/brackish water > > > species, then you should return it to the pet store ASAP so that it > > does not > > > die in your aquarium since long term exposure to freshwater will > > cause them > > > harm... or start eating your fish while it is alive since they are > > mostly > > > carnivorous. They are mostly scavengers that will look for a dead > > fish or > > > shrimp but I'm sure they'll go after live fish if they get hungry > > enough. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > > SAINTS? > > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] into and question on crabs UPDATE > > > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > above the > > > water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually > > hatch in > > > about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more snails then > > I would > > > reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay as many as 200-600 > > > eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily take over your > > entire tank > > > if they all survive. > > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can > > be found > > > at: > > > www.applesnail.net > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood of > > > > my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i saw one > > > > about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look like! We do > > > > have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never thought about > > that > > > > laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it never > > > > crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? lol > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46792	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail

Hmmmmm... that's strange that it hasn't reproduced. Do you have loaches or other fish that eat snails and maybe just decided to leave him alone... kind of like the snake that lets a feeder mouse live or an Oscar that befriends a feeder goldfish? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail I have one lone ramshorn snail in my 37 gallon tank - he came in on a plant as a baby. Now he's about an inch or more. I really like him, but I am reading unfavorable information about them, like that they eat plants and carry flukes. Is this just an all around bad snail to have in a planted tank? Or can I keep the little guy:) Thanks for feedback... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46793	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

Looks like we're both having typitis attacks. You typed "Fiddler shrimp", which I imagine a shrimp could play four fiddles if it chose to... and further down, I typed "you have to decide on whether you want the snail or not..." but I meant to type crab since the snail and Angelfish are compatible but the crab is not compatible with either of them. As far as the temperatures, I'm sure it depends on the species. Fiddler crabs are found on many coastlines up and down the east and left coast of America and I'm sure in many other climates and only the regions near the equator would provide those kinds of temps year round. Even the Gulf Of Mexico gets pretty darned cold during the winter... even more so along the coast where the shallower waters are more affected by the surface temperatures. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE Fiddler shrimp like temps between 75-85F, from the sites I found... perhaps cooler would be fine too, but they are found near the shore where it should be warmer. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Female Mystery Snails can carry sperm from a previous mating for up to > six months and lay several clutches of fertilized eggs from that > previous mating so there's always the chance that the eggs are > fertilized. > > I see in another post that you have an Angelfish, the snail and the > fiddler crab so you have to decide on whether you want the snail or > not since the snail is not compatible with your other two. Neither > Angelfish nor Mystery Snails will tolerate brackish water conditions > needed as a minimum for the crab. > > What size tank do you have? > > What are your baseline water parameters? Not right out the tap but > after the tap water has been allowed to sit out at room temp for 24 to > 48 hours to see what it is like after it outgasses any gasses that are > in the water when it's in the pipes. See my blog article on "Find your > tap/source water baseline". > > If you are intent on keeping all three species that you have, you > could get a 10G tank set-up, at WalMart, for a relatively low cost, > which would include the tank, filter and lighting... and possibly some > accessories. You shouldn't need a heater since saltwater/brackish > water will usually be colder than tropical/room temperatures anyhow. > Then you could set that up as a brackish water biotope with some land > mass, the crab and even add some fish like guppies or mollies which do > well in brackish water. You would have to slowly acclimate them from > freshwater to brackish water but once they are acclimated, they should > be fine... and then the crab will help to keep down the population of > the guppies/mollies... or just get all males so you don't have the > issue and maintenance headaches of overcrowding a 10G with lots of > babies. > > Here's a couple of GOOD articles on starting up a brackish tank/biotope. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html> > > http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_cen_america_estuary.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_cen_america_estuary.htm> > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_ > Biotop > <http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish > _Biotop> > e.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of ker11306 > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the > eggs are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very helpful. > Thanks!! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > above the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They > > usually hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch > > more snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They > > can lay as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and > > can easily take over your entire tank if they all survive. > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can > > be found at: > > www.applesnail.net > > > > Amber > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood > > > of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i > > > saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look > > > like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never > > > thought about that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of > > > the water so it never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? > > > lol > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46794	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?

Oops.. my bad! ;-) It's not often that we get dual threads talking about brackish water issues. Hopefully, they are also reading your thread where I posted the links for starting up a brackish tank which fully answers their question. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ker11306 Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brackish? It was actually someone else who asked about setting up a brackish tank, i am the one with the snail and crab (also one angelfish in with them) and i have already researched a few good sites on making my tank brackish for my crab but im assuming my angelfish wont tolerate it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well, brackish water would not be good for the rest of your fish nor > your Mystery Snail. > > If you want to set up a brackish tank, then you will be limited to the > fish that you keep however there are many that are available. > > What else do you have in the tank right now besides the crab and the snail? > > I have some good websites with info on setting up a brackish water > biotope but I'll wait to hear back from you about your other fish and > whether you are willing to part with all of them in order to maintain > a brackish water tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Christine > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Brackish? > > What is the best formula for creating brackish water? How do you test it? > Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46795	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail

He's not in with snail eaters, maybe the male ram, but I doubt it. Lots of pond snails are fine. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 15, 2010, at 11:27 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Hmmmmm... that's strange that it hasn't reproduced. Do you have > loaches or > other fish that eat snails and maybe just decided to leave him > alone... kind > of like the snake that lets a feeder mouse live or an Oscar that > befriends a > feeder goldfish? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail > > I have one lone ramshorn snail in my 37 gallon tank - he came in on > a plant > as a baby. Now he's about an inch or more. I really like him, but I am > reading unfavorable information about them, like that they eat > plants and > carry flukes. > > Is this just an all around bad snail to have in a planted tank? Or > can I > keep the little guy:) > > Thanks for feedback... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

It's not so much you getting your money back but to teach the Walmart manager or dept. head a LESSON TO NOT order or accept these critters as it is almost a guaranteed early death to the critters. If you just want to set up a temporary home for him/her (does it have a big claw on one side?), you could set it up and then slowly start adding salt to the water until it's up in the brackish water range and if it seems to be doing better, then you could decide to upgrade to a normal tank. Do you have any extra filter systems or an air pump where you could make a simple DIY sponge filter so you could set up his/her temporary home at little or no cost to you? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ker11306 Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE im leaning towards not setting up a brackish tank because like someone posted, being that i have had the crab for a month in freshwater i dont think she will last much longer and im not sure she could tolerate the switch or it might be too late. She does still move around but she is not as active as she was and mostly stays out of the water on the rock or buried under the gravel under the rock and doesnt eat as much but still eats some. It was only $3.00 for the crab so im not worried about the money back for it but it is worth throwing a fit about because its sad that the crab has to die and i already have other fish, so i shouldnt have to choose but on the other hand i should have researched it before i bought but when they are in the tank with the other fish it is kind of deceiving. Really cool little crab though :( wish i knew whether she could tolerate the switch to brackish and would survive before i get rid of my others to try it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Fiddler crabs also need a higher pH and calcium content in the water > so their shells do not deteriorate (same with your mystery snail), but > I don't think your snail will tolerate as much salt as the fiddler > crab will need, so one is going to have to go. > You might be toward the end of your fiddler crabs lifespan if it has > been in freshwater for more than a month, websites state that they > can't normally survive more than a few weeks in freshwater before they > weaken and die. > Is your crab still active and eating the food you give it? Has it shed > it's shell at all? > > Amber > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > i do think it is a fiddler crab and being that it was from walmart > > and they do not have the crabs anymore i doubt they will take it > > back. I could get some salt for the water, but then i have to find > > fish that can tolerate it too. Right now i have one snail and one > > small angel fish. We do have a rock that he can get out of the water > > which she does often. I think i have i mild mannered crab because > > she does not mess with the fish even a dead before i got it out, she > > just walked right over it and didnt mess with it. The lady at petco > > said that because they were raised for aquariums they most likely > > never have had to kill fish to get food and would most likely starve > > before they did that, the females anyways. Thats just what she said > > and theres no telling whether she knows what shes talking about or > > not. At this point, i guess i could find some fish that can tolerate > > some salt and see if i can have them all together. It has been a > > month since we have had him in freshwater, not sure if adding salt > > at this point would be harder on the crabs system then trying to > > tolerate the freshwater, Ill have to do some research ... > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm concerned about your "Fiddler Crab" since they are a > > saltwater/brackish > > > water crab with dozens of species that *look* like a common > > > Fiddler > > Crab. > > > > > > As far as I know, there are no true freshwater crabs although I'm > > sure there > > > may be some out there... just not very common. The other thing > > > about Fiddler Crabs is that they are amphibious or rather > > > semi-terrestrial > > so they > > > need rocks or something to climb up on to get out of the water. > > > I'm not sure of any really good and reliable profiles on them yet > > > so I would > > suggest > > > starter reading with these articles. > > > http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm > > <http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm> and > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab> > > > > > > If you concur that your crab is one of these saltwater/brackish > > > water species, then you should return it to the pet store ASAP so > > > that it > > does not > > > die in your aquarium since long term exposure to freshwater will > > cause them > > > harm... or start eating your fish while it is alive since they are > > mostly > > > carnivorous. They are mostly scavengers that will look for a dead > > fish or > > > shrimp but I'm sure they'll go after live fish if they get hungry > > enough. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > > SAINTS? > > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:21 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] into and question on crabs UPDATE > > > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > above the > > > water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually > > hatch in > > > about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more snails > > > then > > I would > > > reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay as many as > > > 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily take > > > over your > > entire tank > > > if they all survive. > > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) > > > can > > be found > > > at: > > > www.applesnail.net > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the > > > > hood of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this > > > > group i saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what > > > > they look like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would > > > > have never thought about > > that > > > > laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it > > > > never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail > > > > eggs? lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46797	From: ker11306	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

i have an air pump, like one that makes bubbles in the tank but i do not have an extra filter system. Im thinking its a female crab, she does NOT have the big claw on one side. Could i set up a temporary tank with just an air pump or would i have to have a filtration system? I might be able to get ahold of an old filter system easier then buying a whole new setup, even a 10 gallon i think is $50 or so and then theres a chance that the crab doesnt make it. :/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's not so much you getting your money back but to teach the Walmart > manager or dept. head a LESSON TO NOT order or accept these critters as it > is almost a guaranteed early death to the critters. > > If you just want to set up a temporary home for him/her (does it have a big > claw on one side?), you could set it up and then slowly start adding salt to > the water until it's up in the brackish water range and if it seems to be > doing better, then you could decide to upgrade to a normal tank. > > Do you have any extra filter systems or an air pump where you could make a > simple DIY sponge filter so you could set up his/her temporary home at > little or no cost to you? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ker11306 > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > im leaning towards not setting up a brackish tank because like someone > posted, being that i have had the crab for a month in freshwater i dont > think she will last much longer and im not sure she could tolerate the > switch or it might be too late. She does still move around but she is not as > active as she was and mostly stays out of the water on the rock or buried > under the gravel under the rock and doesnt eat as much but still eats some. > > It was only $3.00 for the crab so im not worried about the money back for it > but it is worth throwing a fit about because its sad that the crab has to > die and i already have other fish, so i shouldnt have to choose but on the > other hand i should have researched it before i bought but when they are in > the tank with the other fish it is kind of deceiving. Really cool little > crab though :( wish i knew whether she could tolerate the switch to brackish > and would survive before i get rid of my others to try it. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > Fiddler crabs also need a higher pH and calcium content in the water > > so their shells do not deteriorate (same with your mystery snail), but > > I don't think your snail will tolerate as much salt as the fiddler > > crab will need, so one is going to have to go. > > You might be toward the end of your fiddler crabs lifespan if it has > > been in freshwater for more than a month, websites state that they > > can't normally survive more than a few weeks in freshwater before they > > weaken and die. > > Is your crab still active and eating the food you give it? Has it shed > > it's shell at all? > > > > Amber > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > i do think it is a fiddler crab and being that it was from walmart > > > and they do not have the crabs anymore i doubt they will take it > > > back. I could get some salt for the water, but then i have to find > > > fish that can tolerate it too. Right now i have one snail and one > > > small angel fish. We do have a rock that he can get out of the water > > > which she does often. I think i have i mild mannered crab because > > > she does not mess with the fish even a dead before i got it out, she > > > just walked right over it and didnt mess with it. The lady at petco > > > said that because they were raised for aquariums they most likely > > > never have had to kill fish to get food and would most likely starve > > > before they did that, the females anyways. Thats just what she said > > > and theres no telling whether she knows what shes talking about or > > > not. At this point, i guess i could find some fish that can tolerate > > > some salt and see if i can have them all together. It has been a > > > month since we have had him in freshwater, not sure if adding salt > > > at this point would be harder on the crabs system then trying to > > > tolerate the freshwater, Ill have to do some research ... > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm concerned about your "Fiddler Crab" since they are a > > > saltwater/brackish > > > > water crab with dozens of species that *look* like a common > > > > Fiddler > > > Crab. > > > > > > > > As far as I know, there are no true freshwater crabs although I'm > > > sure there > > > > may be some out there... just not very common. The other thing > > > > about Fiddler Crabs is that they are amphibious or rather > > > > semi-terrestrial > > > so they > > > > need rocks or something to climb up on to get out of the water. > > > > I'm not sure of any really good and reliable profiles on them yet > > > > so I would > > > suggest > > > > starter reading with these articles. > > > > http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm > > > <http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm> and > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab> > > > > > > > > If you concur that your crab is one of these saltwater/brackish > > > > water species, then you should return it to the pet store ASAP so > > > > that it > > > does not > > > > die in your aquarium since long term exposure to freshwater will > > > cause them > > > > harm... or start eating your fish while it is alive since they are > > > mostly > > > > carnivorous. They are mostly scavengers that will look for a dead > > > fish or > > > > shrimp but I'm sure they'll go after live fish if they get hungry > > > enough. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > > > SAINTS? > > > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:21 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] into and question on crabs UPDATE > > > > > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > > above the > > > > water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually > > > hatch in > > > > about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more snails > > > > then > > > I would > > > > reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay as many as > > > > 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily take > > > > over your > > > entire tank > > > > if they all survive. > > > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) > > > > can > > > be found > > > > at: > > > > www.applesnail.net > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the > > > > > hood of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this > > > > > group i saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what > > > > > they look like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would > > > > > have never thought about > > > that > > > > > laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it > > > > > never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail > > > > > eggs? lol >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46798	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/15/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

Well, if you have an air pump, you have a simple filtration system... along with a few other items you have laying around... and some of the gravel from the existing tank. Here's a DIY filter you can make in 5 minutes. If you don't have sponge or filter media, just fill up the little plastic container with gravel. If you don't have the lift tube, just put the air stone down in the bottom of the plastic container and let the bubbles float up through the gravel and that will create enough circulation of water through the gravel to create a biological filter and circulation so you don't have nitrogen cycle issues and the bubbles popping on the surface will help to keep the water oxygenated. You'll still have to vacuum/siphon up waste from the bottom. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Davies_Sponge_Filter.html Walmart sells plain 10G tanks for around $10.00 but any kind of decent sized container that holds water will work. I use a Sterilite semi-clear storage box for my emergency tank and when I'm not using it as a temporary H-tank or Q-tank, I store all my fish supplies in it. It holds around 10G of water with several inches above so I don't have to fill it up all the way. I'm thinking something that holds at least a gallon of water, preferably 2G or more, would be sufficient as a temporary home while the Fiddler is still small, while you bring up the salt level over the next week and then see how it's doing before you invest the money for it's own tank set up. A 10G would be needed, at least, for a long term home. Here's a snip from the BadmansTropicalFish.com link I gave you earlier... BUT YOUR FIDDLER CRAB MAY NOT NEED THIS MUCH SALT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU EVENTUALLY ADD OTHER FISH TO THE BRACKISH TANK. READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE FOR OTHER BRACKISH SALT MIXTURES. Salt: All of the fish listed above migrate down the estuary to the ocean when they are several years old, so you will have to mimic this the best of your ability. Buy all of your inhabitants young and start this tank with around 2 tablespoons of marine salt per gallon of water. Every 6 months, add an additional tablespoon of salt per gallon of water during water changes. Stop when you are adding about 7 tablespoons of salt per gallon of water or when your hydrometer measures a reading of 1.020-1.025. This should take about 3-4 years and they should not be rushed into full marine water. Keep in mind NOT to add the salt directly to the tank. (END SNIP) The Marine Salt will also add the other minerals to give you HARD water which the crab will need. I would start off with one teaspoon per gallon the first day, then add another teaspoon per gallon per day which would bring you up to the two tablespoons (six teaspoons) per gallon after six days. Then you can follow the above directions for the long term. Remember that salt does not evaporate so before you do tank maintenance, top off the tank with fresh water (dechlored) and then remove a percentage of the water and replace it with water containing the same salt mixture. KEEP A CHART OR LOG OF HOW MUCH SALT PER GALLON YOU ARE ADDING SO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TEASPOONS PER GALLON YOU HAVE ON ANY GIVEN DAY. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ker11306 Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE i have an air pump, like one that makes bubbles in the tank but i do not have an extra filter system. Im thinking its a female crab, she does NOT have the big claw on one side. Could i set up a temporary tank with just an air pump or would i have to have a filtration system? I might be able to get ahold of an old filter system easier then buying a whole new setup, even a 10 gallon i think is $50 or so and then theres a chance that the crab doesnt make it. :/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It's not so much you getting your money back but to teach the Walmart > manager or dept. head a LESSON TO NOT order or accept these critters > as it is almost a guaranteed early death to the critters. > > If you just want to set up a temporary home for him/her (does it have > a big claw on one side?), you could set it up and then slowly start > adding salt to the water until it's up in the brackish water range and > if it seems to be doing better, then you could decide to upgrade to a normal tank. > > Do you have any extra filter systems or an air pump where you could > make a simple DIY sponge filter so you could set up his/her temporary > home at little or no cost to you? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of ker11306 > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > im leaning towards not setting up a brackish tank because like someone > posted, being that i have had the crab for a month in freshwater i > dont think she will last much longer and im not sure she could > tolerate the switch or it might be too late. She does still move > around but she is not as active as she was and mostly stays out of the > water on the rock or buried under the gravel under the rock and doesnt eat as much but still eats some. > > It was only $3.00 for the crab so im not worried about the money back > for it but it is worth throwing a fit about because its sad that the > crab has to die and i already have other fish, so i shouldnt have to > choose but on the other hand i should have researched it before i > bought but when they are in the tank with the other fish it is kind of > deceiving. Really cool little crab though :( wish i knew whether she > could tolerate the switch to brackish and would survive before i get rid of my others to try it. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > Fiddler crabs also need a higher pH and calcium content in the water > > so their shells do not deteriorate (same with your mystery snail), > > but I don't think your snail will tolerate as much salt as the > > fiddler crab will need, so one is going to have to go. > > You might be toward the end of your fiddler crabs lifespan if it has > > been in freshwater for more than a month, websites state that they > > can't normally survive more than a few weeks in freshwater before > > they weaken and die. > > Is your crab still active and eating the food you give it? Has it > > shed it's shell at all? > > > > Amber > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > i do think it is a fiddler crab and being that it was from walmart > > > and they do not have the crabs anymore i doubt they will take it > > > back. I could get some salt for the water, but then i have to find > > > fish that can tolerate it too. Right now i have one snail and one > > > small angel fish. We do have a rock that he can get out of the > > > water which she does often. I think i have i mild mannered crab > > > because she does not mess with the fish even a dead before i got > > > it out, she just walked right over it and didnt mess with it. The > > > lady at petco said that because they were raised for aquariums > > > they most likely never have had to kill fish to get food and would > > > most likely starve before they did that, the females anyways. > > > Thats just what she said and theres no telling whether she knows > > > what shes talking about or not. At this point, i guess i could > > > find some fish that can tolerate some salt and see if i can have > > > them all together. It has been a month since we have had him in > > > freshwater, not sure if adding salt at this point would be harder > > > on the crabs system then trying to tolerate the freshwater, Ill have to do some research ... > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > > <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm concerned about your "Fiddler Crab" since they are a > > > saltwater/brackish > > > > water crab with dozens of species that *look* like a common > > > > Fiddler > > > Crab. > > > > > > > > As far as I know, there are no true freshwater crabs although > > > > I'm > > > sure there > > > > may be some out there... just not very common. The other thing > > > > about Fiddler Crabs is that they are amphibious or rather > > > > semi-terrestrial > > > so they > > > > need rocks or something to climb up on to get out of the water. > > > > I'm not sure of any really good and reliable profiles on them > > > > yet so I would > > > suggest > > > > starter reading with these articles. > > > > http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm > > > <http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/rarespecies/a/fiddlercrabs.htm> > > > and > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab> > > > > > > > > If you concur that your crab is one of these saltwater/brackish > > > > water species, then you should return it to the pet store ASAP > > > > so that it > > > does not > > > > die in your aquarium since long term exposure to freshwater will > > > cause them > > > > harm... or start eating your fish while it is alive since they > > > > are > > > mostly > > > > carnivorous. They are mostly scavengers that will look for a > > > > dead > > > fish or > > > > shrimp but I'm sure they'll go after live fish if they get > > > > hungry > > > enough. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > > > Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT > > > > DEM > > > SAINTS? > > > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:21 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] into and question on crabs UPDATE > > > > > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > > above the > > > > water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They usually > > > hatch in > > > > about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch more snails > > > > then > > > I would > > > > reccommend removing the snail clutch. They can lay as many as > > > > 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and can easily take > > > > over your > > > entire tank > > > > if they all survive. > > > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) > > > > can > > > be found > > > > at: > > > > www.applesnail.net > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the > > > > > hood of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this > > > > > group i saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what > > > > > they look like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would > > > > > have never thought about > > > that > > > > > laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of the water so it > > > > > never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail > > > > > eggs? lol > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46799	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail

Ramshorn Snails DO NOT eat plants but POND SNAILS are NOTORIOUS plant eaters. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46800	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

IF you were to set up a brackish water tank for this crab, or even a temporary container to house the crab in until better arrangements (or return to the store) can be made, you would need to do this slowly so as not to shock the critter. By "slowly," this is meant to add the needed salt over a period of at least 4 days (preferably a week) -- with 3 days being the absolute minumum (for a stronger animal not having been exposed to freshwater this long, and that would be rushing it. But then, it's hard to say if you even have another week to work with her. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46801	From: Christine	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Brackish?

My husband was interested in purchasing a couple of figure 8 puffers. I do realize my fish choices will be somewhat limited. What about plants? Can they still grow in brackish water? Thanks again for your help.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46802	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail

My ramshorns were always smaller than that. Are you sure it's a ramshorn? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail Hmmmmm... that's strange that it hasn't reproduced. Do you have loaches or other fish that eat snails and maybe just decided to leave him alone... kind of like the snake that lets a feeder mouse live or an Oscar that befriends a feeder goldfish? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail I have one lone ramshorn snail in my 37 gallon tank - he came in on a plant as a baby. Now he's about an inch or more. I really like him, but I am reading unfavorable information about them, like that they eat plants and carry flukes. Is this just an all around bad snail to have in a planted tank? Or can I keep the little guy:) Thanks for feedback... Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46803	From: Christine	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Brackish?

I forgot to mention that right now I have a 20 gal high inhabited by a couple of rainbow tetras and two dwarf gouramis. I have it planted with wisteria, a water lotus, and what I think is ludwegia. I'm thinking another tank for the puffers. I wasn't sure how much salt my other fish woould tolerate or how much the puffers would need. Do they need full saltwater as they mature? The fish were about 2-3 inches long at the pet store.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?

Just in case you missed the links I posted in the other thread, here they are again... including some brackish plants. There are quite a few fish that are available, however, maybe not as many with your Puffers. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_cen_america_estuary.htm http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_Biotop e.html OR - http://tinyurl.com/yhhv9l5 http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=16+1944&aid=3299 There are plants listed in the above articles. Here's a website that sells some that they claim to be brackish water survivable plants. Note in the BadmansTropicalFish.com article that more plants will survive at the lower salt levels but will not survive as the water comes closer to actual Salt Water salinity levels. http://www.aquariumplants.com/Brackish_Water_Plants_s/22.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Brackish? My husband was interested in purchasing a couple of figure 8 puffers. I do realize my fish choices will be somewhat limited. What about plants? Can they still grow in brackish water? Thanks again for your help.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46805	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?

Your freshwater fish would not survive in brackish water, even at the lowest brackish water salinity levels of 6 teaspoons of marine salt per gallon. Some brackish fish need even higher salinity levels. Some common freshwater fish that do well in brackish tanks are livebearers like guppies and mollies which are often found in full salt water in the wild. Figure 8 puffers do NOT like full saltwater. Some good profiles/care sheets on Figure 8 Puffers. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article84.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Tetraodon_biocellus.html http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/puf-fig8.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brackish? I forgot to mention that right now I have a 20 gal high inhabited by a couple of rainbow tetras and two dwarf gouramis. I have it planted with wisteria, a water lotus, and what I think is ludwegia. I'm thinking another tank for the puffers. I wasn't sure how much salt my other fish woould tolerate or how much the puffers would need. Do they need full saltwater as they mature? The fish were about 2-3 inches long at the pet store.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46806	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?

I just noticed a typo on the Mongabay profile about the size. Figure 8's do not grow to 8", only to around 3". I guess someone was typing too many 8's that day. Fishbase.org http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=25175 confirms they only grow to around 8cm so maybe that's where the typo occurred. These are usually really good profiles and my first choice for information since they have the profiles broken down into sections and have the suggested companions section which most other profiles/care sheets do not have. Fishbase.org profiles are also a very reliable source but they are written more for academia and are not as user friendly. You have to click LOTS of links under "More Information" to find all of the information contained within the profile. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brackish? I forgot to mention that right now I have a 20 gal high inhabited by a couple of rainbow tetras and two dwarf gouramis. I have it planted with wisteria, a water lotus, and what I think is ludwegia. I'm thinking another tank for the puffers. I wasn't sure how much salt my other fish woould tolerate or how much the puffers would need. Do they need full saltwater as they mature? The fish were about 2-3 inches long at the pet store. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46807	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

Ok, I'm going to jump in on this one. My brother used to live in a "riverfront" property in Jacksonville, Florida and we spent an afternoon checking out the fiddlers in the backyard. The river in question is the Saint John river.  It is freshwater and the fiddler crab commuty was quite crowded, in fact, our post digging project almost got scraped because everytime we dug we came out with the little guys, some intact, some not so much... So, what I'm saying is thet yes, there are freshies and there are brackish. Just make sure you identify yours correctly. Saltwater crabs last less than a week in freshwater, some less than a day ( I speak from experience), carefull you don't kill it with salt. Enid ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 10:35:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE   Looks like we're both having typitis attacks. You typed "Fiddler shrimp", which I imagine a shrimp could play four fiddles if it chose to... and further down, I typed "you have to decide on whether you want the snail or not..." but I meant to type crab since the snail and Angelfish are compatible but the crab is not compatible with either of them. As far as the temperatures, I'm sure it depends on the species. Fiddler crabs are found on many coastlines up and down the east and left coast of America and I'm sure in many other climates and only the regions near the equator would provide those kinds of temps year round. Even the Gulf Of Mexico gets pretty darned cold during the winter... even more so along the coast where the shallower waters are more affected by the surface temperatures. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE Fiddler shrimp like temps between 75-85F, from the sites I found... perhaps cooler would be fine too, but they are found near the shore where it should be warmer. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Female Mystery Snails can carry sperm from a previous mating for up to > six months and lay several clutches of fertilized eggs from that > previous mating so there's always the chance that the eggs are > fertilized. > > I see in another post that you have an Angelfish, the snail and the > fiddler crab so you have to decide on whether you want the snail or > not since the snail is not compatible with your other two. Neither > Angelfish nor Mystery Snails will tolerate brackish water conditions > needed as a minimum for the crab. > > What size tank do you have? > > What are your baseline water parameters? Not right out the tap but > after the tap water has been allowed to sit out at room temp for 24 to > 48 hours to see what it is like after it outgasses any gasses that are > in the water when it's in the pipes. See my blog article on "Find your > tap/source water baseline". > > If you are intent on keeping all three species that you have, you > could get a 10G tank set-up, at WalMart, for a relatively low cost, > which would include the tank, filter and lighting... and possibly some > accessories. You shouldn't need a heater since saltwater/brackish > water will usually be colder than tropical/room temperatures anyhow. > Then you could set that up as a brackish water biotope with some land > mass, the crab and even add some fish like guppies or mollies which do > well in brackish water. You would have to slowly acclimate them from > freshwater to brackish water but once they are acclimated, they should > be fine... and then the crab will help to keep down the population of > the guppies/mollies. .. or just get all males so you don't have the > issue and maintenance headaches of overcrowding a 10G with lots of > babies. > > Here's a couple of GOOD articles on starting up a brackish tank/biotope. > > http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html > <http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html> > > http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm > <http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm> > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_ > Biotop > <http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish > _Biotop> > e.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf Of ker11306 > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the > eggs are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very helpful. > Thanks!! > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@ ...> wrote: > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > above the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They > > usually hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch > > more snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They > > can lay as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and > > can easily take over your entire tank if they all survive. > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can > > be found at: > > www.applesnail. net > > > > Amber > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood > > > of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i > > > saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look > > > like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never > > > thought about that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of > > > the water so it never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need info on snail eggs? > > > lol > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46808	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

How close to the coast? Many freshwater rivers are brackish due to salt water creep from oceans (or the Gulf of Mexico in my case). Even the GREAT Mississippi River has a lot of salt water creep, especially during slow flowing times of the year... and slow flowing in the Mississippi is still quite fast compared to most other rivers. They had some great aerial photos showing this a few years back, before Katrina, and you could see the blue-green Gulf of Mexico water creeping up WAY INLAND almost up to New Orleans, which is quite a ways up river from the Gulf. Storms and hurricanes will also push saltwater further inland. INTERESTING!!!! I was looking for info on how brackish the St. Johns River gets and Wikipedia says it's a north flowing river in North America which is quite rare. Rivers in the Northern Hemisphere flow to the south and rivers in the Southern Hemisphere flow to the north so the St. John's River is the exception to the rule. Here's what the article says about salt water intrusion... "As distance between the mouth of the St. Johns and the middle and upper basins increases, the salinity in the river gradually decreases. Marine water measures at 35 parts per thousand (ppt) or more while fresh water measures below 2 ppt. What ranges in between is characterized as brackish water. Near the center of Jacksonville, average measures have been collected at 11.40 ppt. Farther south at the Buckman Bridge, joining the south side of Jacksonville to Orange Park, it decreases to 2.9 ppt and falls again to 0.81 ppt at the Shands Bridge near Green Cove Springs.[76][77]" (END SNIP) I'm not saying there aren't fresh water fiddler crabs but the overwhelming majority of the fiddler crabs available in stores are the common salt water variety found in close proximity to salt water... like Jacksonville, FL. Nice city BTW. It reminded me a lot of New Orleans when I went there a while back. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Enid Rodriguez Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE Ok, I'm going to jump in on this one. My brother used to live in a "riverfront" property in Jacksonville, Florida and we spent an afternoon checking out the fiddlers in the backyard. The river in question is the Saint John river.  It is freshwater and the fiddler crab commuty was quite crowded, in fact, our post digging project almost got scraped because everytime we dug we came out with the little guys, some intact, some not so much... So, what I'm saying is thet yes, there are freshies and there are brackish. Just make sure you identify yours correctly. Saltwater crabs last less than a week in freshwater, some less than a day ( I speak from experience), carefull you don't kill it with salt. Enid ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 10:35:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE   Looks like we're both having typitis attacks. You typed "Fiddler shrimp", which I imagine a shrimp could play four fiddles if it chose to... and further down, I typed "you have to decide on whether you want the snail or not..." but I meant to type crab since the snail and Angelfish are compatible but the crab is not compatible with either of them. As far as the temperatures, I'm sure it depends on the species. Fiddler crabs are found on many coastlines up and down the east and left coast of America and I'm sure in many other climates and only the regions near the equator would provide those kinds of temps year round. Even the Gulf Of Mexico gets pretty darned cold during the winter... even more so along the coast where the shallower waters are more affected by the surface temperatures. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE Fiddler shrimp like temps between 75-85F, from the sites I found... perhaps cooler would be fine too, but they are found near the shore where it should be warmer. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Female Mystery Snails can carry sperm from a previous mating for up to > six months and lay several clutches of fertilized eggs from that > previous mating so there's always the chance that the eggs are > fertilized. > > I see in another post that you have an Angelfish, the snail and the > fiddler crab so you have to decide on whether you want the snail or > not since the snail is not compatible with your other two. Neither > Angelfish nor Mystery Snails will tolerate brackish water conditions > needed as a minimum for the crab. > > What size tank do you have? > > What are your baseline water parameters? Not right out the tap but > after the tap water has been allowed to sit out at room temp for 24 to > 48 hours to see what it is like after it outgasses any gasses that are > in the water when it's in the pipes. See my blog article on "Find your > tap/source water baseline". > > If you are intent on keeping all three species that you have, you > could get a 10G tank set-up, at WalMart, for a relatively low cost, > which would include the tank, filter and lighting... and possibly some > accessories. You shouldn't need a heater since saltwater/brackish > water will usually be colder than tropical/room temperatures anyhow. > Then you could set that up as a brackish water biotope with some land > mass, the crab and even add some fish like guppies or mollies which do > well in brackish water. You would have to slowly acclimate them from > freshwater to brackish water but once they are acclimated, they should > be fine... and then the crab will help to keep down the population of > the guppies/mollies. .. or just get all males so you don't have the > issue and maintenance headaches of overcrowding a 10G with lots of > babies. > > Here's a couple of GOOD articles on starting up a brackish tank/biotope. > > http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html > <http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html> > > http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm > <http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm> > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_ > Biotop > <http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish > _Biotop> > e.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of ker11306 > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the > eggs are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very helpful. > Thanks!! > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > ...> wrote: > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > above the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They > > usually hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch > > more snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They > > can lay as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and > > can easily take over your entire tank if they all survive. > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can > > be found at: > > www.applesnail. net > > > > Amber > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood > > > of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i > > > saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look > > > like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never > > > thought about that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of > > > the water so it never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need > > > info on snail eggs? > > > lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46809	From: Christine	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Brackish?

I have another novice fish keeper question. What is the difference between marine and aquarium salt? I usually add a little aquarium salt to my tank when I do a water change. Something my Dad always did. Is this a common practice? My fish seem to be healthy and thriving.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46810	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?

Aquarium salt is just plain salt (Sodium Chloride) and if you've been buying it from your fish or pet store, you've been getting ripped! There is no need to add salt to the water for freshwater fish although a pinch per 10G is OK to use and will not cause osmoregulatory issues. Higher levels of salt such as the dosages in the directions of many packages of "Aquarium Salt" is MUCH MORE than should be used on a daily basis and causes the fish's osmoregulatory system to be overworked trying to regulate the salty water out of the fish. It was common practice in the old days before more was known about the osmoregulatory system, the nitrogen cycle, etc. I have a section on my blog's page about fish health and disease with several articles about why we should NOT be using salt in our freshwater aquariums. Next time you need to buy some, get some plain table salt from your local grocery or buy Kosher Salt which will not have any additives or preservatives... but for the temporary use of salt that we use in freshwater situations such as treating diseases/parasites, the low level of additives in plain table salt will not harm our fish. Start doing your PWC's (partial water changes) with just plain freshwater to slowly wean your fish off of salt. If you have mostly livebearers, they do fine in salty water but the majority if other freshwater fish simply do not need it and it can actually be harmful to them. Marine Salt is made from evaporating sea water (or can be man-made using a mixture of compounds to simulate Marine Salt). Marine Salt usually contains only around 35% actual Sodium Chloride (common table salt) with other "salts" and minerals making up the rest of the mix. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brackish? I have another novice fish keeper question. What is the difference between marine and aquarium salt? I usually add a little aquarium salt to my tank when I do a water change. Something my Dad always did. Is this a common practice? My fish seem to be healthy and thriving.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46811	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail

Oh yes. Apparently there are smaller varieties that are more common and then this one inch or more variety which is somewhat different. That's why I have wondered about the plants since the literature says the larger ones will eat your plants - Ray thinks not... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:07 AM, Donna Ransome wrote: > My ramshorns were always smaller than that. Are you sure it's a > ramshorn? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail > > Hmmmmm... that's strange that it hasn't reproduced. Do you have > loaches or > other fish that eat snails and maybe just decided to leave him > alone... kind > of like the snake that lets a feeder mouse live or an Oscar that > befriends a > feeder goldfish? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail > > I have one lone ramshorn snail in my 37 gallon tank - he came in on > a plant > as a baby. Now he's about an inch or more. I really like him, but I am > reading unfavorable information about them, like that they eat > plants and > carry flukes. > > Is this just an all around bad snail to have in a planted tank? Or > can I > keep the little guy:) > > Thanks for feedback... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46812	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae

I had a thought last night, just wanted to see if my thought was correct or not. I agree that larger Loaches will take care of larger MTS, now my thought is... If clown loaches grow very slowly you would actually need to buy older clown loaches from your LFS and trade them in fairly often so they don't get health issues, but that seems a little cruel to me (to keep an over sized fish in a smaller tank), but I suppose if it's kept to a short time frame it would work. I would think if you're buying the smaller clown loaches and raising them to (say 4 inches), then give them back, that they aren't large enough to eat the full grown MTS. But this is just my guess. Why not buy one of the smaller botia loaches and let it grow to full size (which range from 4-6 inches depending on which loach you were to get)? Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > If prearranged with your LFS for trading in as the fish grows, its > size in > one's tank is only determined by one's scheduling in returning it, and > the > size it's allowed to grow to by the owner. If the tank will support it, a > larger Loach will take care of larger MTS's, which can be an important > point > if being over-run by larger snails. Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46813	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail

I could have sworn my smaller ones eat my plants, but it's hard to tell when I have both pond (bladder) snails and Ramshorn snails... Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Oh yes. Apparently there are smaller varieties that are more common > and then this one inch or more variety which is somewhat different. > That's why I have wondered about the plants since the literature says > the larger ones will eat your plants - Ray thinks not... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:07 AM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > >> My ramshorns were always smaller than that. Are you sure it's a >> ramshorn? >> >> _____ >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:28 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail >> >> Hmmmmm... that's strange that it hasn't reproduced. Do you have >> loaches or >> other fish that eat snails and maybe just decided to leave him >> alone... kind >> of like the snake that lets a feeder mouse live or an Oscar that >> befriends a >> feeder goldfish? >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM >> SAINTS? >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com] >> On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:24 PM >> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail >> >> I have one lone ramshorn snail in my 37 gallon tank - he came in on >> a plant >> as a baby. Now he's about an inch or more. I really like him, but I am >> reading unfavorable information about them, like that they eat >> plants and >> carry flukes. >> >> Is this just an all around bad snail to have in a planted tank? Or >> can I >> keep the little guy:) >> >> Thanks for feedback... >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> dsgouldians.com >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46814	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail

The wiki says they eat delicate plants. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramshorn_snail Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Oh yes. Apparently there are smaller varieties that are more common > and then this one inch or more variety which is somewhat different. > That's why I have wondered about the plants since the literature says > the larger ones will eat your plants - Ray thinks not... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:07 AM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > >> My ramshorns were always smaller than that. Are you sure it's a >> ramshorn? >> >> _____ >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:28 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail >> >> Hmmmmm... that's strange that it hasn't reproduced. Do you have >> loaches or >> other fish that eat snails and maybe just decided to leave him >> alone... kind >> of like the snake that lets a feeder mouse live or an Oscar that >> befriends a >> feeder goldfish? >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM >> SAINTS? >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com] >> On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:24 PM >> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail >> >> I have one lone ramshorn snail in my 37 gallon tank - he came in on >> a plant >> as a baby. Now he's about an inch or more. I really like him, but I am >> reading unfavorable information about them, like that they eat >> plants and >> carry flukes. >> >> Is this just an all around bad snail to have in a planted tank? Or >> can I >> keep the little guy:) >> >> Thanks for feedback... >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> dsgouldians.com >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46815	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: update on snail hatching

So of course I ask about hatching my snail eggs and today I wake up to 3 new egg batches on my 55 gallon tank, LOL. Guess I don't need to worry anymore ;) Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46816	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail

Do you have one of these snails Lainey? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marisa_cornuarietis Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Oh yes. Apparently there are smaller varieties that are more common > and then this one inch or more variety which is somewhat different. > That's why I have wondered about the plants since the literature says > the larger ones will eat your plants - Ray thinks not... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:07 AM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > >> My ramshorns were always smaller than that. Are you sure it's a >> ramshorn? >> >> _____ >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:28 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail >> >> Hmmmmm... that's strange that it hasn't reproduced. Do you have >> loaches or >> other fish that eat snails and maybe just decided to leave him >> alone... kind >> of like the snake that lets a feeder mouse live or an Oscar that >> befriends a >> feeder goldfish? >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM >> SAINTS? >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com] >> On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:24 PM >> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail >> >> I have one lone ramshorn snail in my 37 gallon tank - he came in on >> a plant >> as a baby. Now he's about an inch or more. I really like him, but I am >> reading unfavorable information about them, like that they eat >> plants and >> carry flukes. >> >> Is this just an all around bad snail to have in a planted tank? Or >> can I >> keep the little guy:) >> >> Thanks for feedback... >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> dsgouldians.com >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46817	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ramshorn snail

No, I don't think so. Amber. His shell is coiled, but he is chocolate brown. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 16, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Do you have one of these snails Lainey? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marisa_cornuarietis > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Oh yes. Apparently there are smaller varieties that are more common > > and then this one inch or more variety which is somewhat different. > > That's why I have wondered about the plants since the literature > says > > the larger ones will eat your plants - Ray thinks not... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:07 AM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > > > > >> My ramshorns were always smaller than that. Are you sure it's a > >> ramshorn? > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >> Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > >> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:28 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail > >> > >> Hmmmmm... that's strange that it hasn't reproduced. Do you have > >> loaches or > >> other fish that eat snails and maybe just decided to leave him > >> alone... kind > >> of like the snake that lets a feeder mouse live or an Oscar that > >> befriends a > >> feeder goldfish? > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> blogspot.com > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > >> right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > >> SAINTS? > >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> yahoogroups.com] > >> On > >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:24 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ramshorn snail > >> > >> I have one lone ramshorn snail in my 37 gallon tank - he came in on > >> a plant > >> as a baby. Now he's about an inch or more. I really like him, > but I am > >> reading unfavorable information about them, like that they eat > >> plants and > >> carry flukes. > >> > >> Is this just an all around bad snail to have in a planted tank? Or > >> can I > >> keep the little guy:) > >> > >> Thanks for feedback... > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> dsgouldians.com > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46818	From: ker11306	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

well even if the crab could tolerate freshwater, she still isnt acting the way she used to. She used to walk around the tank and check things out and look for things on the bottom of the tank now its just under the rock, WAY under the rock or on top of it and out of the water. She never walks around, not during the day at least. She knows when i feed the angelfish and she comes to the top of the rock and catches the food that comes to the edge of the rock and then she goes back down, she doesnt seem to like the crab pellets i got, she eats the flakes. She has not shed her shell yet, not sure how long before they do that but she has turned darker brownish color then she was when we got her. Its hard to tell if shes ok or not because i dont know what they normally do and she already seems to not fit the normal profile of a fiddler. The fish store people also told me that she would grab the angelfish and she didnt even grab the dead one that we had a few weeks ago died a few days after we got it. But if she were not tolerating the freshwater, then that would explain the lack of activity. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How close to the coast? Many freshwater rivers are brackish due to salt > water creep from oceans (or the Gulf of Mexico in my case). Even the GREAT > Mississippi River has a lot of salt water creep, especially during slow > flowing times of the year... and slow flowing in the Mississippi is still > quite fast compared to most other rivers. They had some great aerial photos > showing this a few years back, before Katrina, and you could see the > blue-green Gulf of Mexico water creeping up WAY INLAND almost up to New > Orleans, which is quite a ways up river from the Gulf. Storms and > hurricanes will also push saltwater further inland. > > INTERESTING!!!! I was looking for info on how brackish the St. Johns River > gets and Wikipedia says it's a north flowing river in North America which is > quite rare. Rivers in the Northern Hemisphere flow to the south and rivers > in the Southern Hemisphere flow to the north so the St. John's River is the > exception to the rule. Here's what the article says about salt water > intrusion... > > "As distance between the mouth of the St. Johns and the middle and upper > basins increases, the salinity in the river gradually decreases. Marine > water measures at 35 parts per thousand (ppt) or more while fresh water > measures below 2 ppt. What ranges in between is characterized as brackish > water. Near the center of Jacksonville, average measures have been collected > at 11.40 ppt. Farther south at the Buckman Bridge, joining the south side of > Jacksonville to Orange Park, it decreases to 2.9 ppt and falls again to 0.81 > ppt at the Shands Bridge near Green Cove Springs.[76][77]" > (END SNIP) > > I'm not saying there aren't fresh water fiddler crabs but the overwhelming > majority of the fiddler crabs available in stores are the common salt water > variety found in close proximity to salt water... like Jacksonville, FL. > Nice city BTW. It reminded me a lot of New Orleans when I went there a > while back. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Enid Rodriguez > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > Ok, I'm going to jump in on this one. My brother used to live in a > "riverfront" property in Jacksonville, Florida and we spent an afternoon > checking out the fiddlers in the backyard. The river in question is the > Saint John river.  It is freshwater and the fiddler crab commuty was quite > crowded, in fact, our post digging project almost got scraped because > everytime we dug we came out with the little guys, some intact, some not so > much... > So, what I'm saying is thet yes, there are freshies and there are brackish. > Just make sure you identify yours correctly. Saltwater crabs last less than > a week in freshwater, some less than a day ( I speak from experience), > carefull you don't kill it with salt. > Enid > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 10:35:39 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > >   > Looks like we're both having typitis attacks. You typed "Fiddler shrimp", > which I imagine a shrimp could play four fiddles if it chose to... and > further down, I typed "you have to decide on whether you want the snail or > not..." but I meant to type crab since the snail and Angelfish are > compatible but the crab is not compatible with either of them. > > As far as the temperatures, I'm sure it depends on the species. Fiddler > crabs are found on many coastlines up and down the east and left coast of > America and I'm sure in many other climates and only the regions near the > equator would provide those kinds of temps year round. Even the Gulf Of > Mexico gets pretty darned cold during the winter... even more so along the > coast where the shallower waters are more affected by the surface > temperatures. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > Fiddler shrimp like temps between 75-85F, from the sites I found... > perhaps cooler would be fine too, but they are found near the shore where it > should be warmer. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Female Mystery Snails can carry sperm from a previous mating for up to > > six months and lay several clutches of fertilized eggs from that > > previous mating so there's always the chance that the eggs are > > fertilized. > > > > I see in another post that you have an Angelfish, the snail and the > > fiddler crab so you have to decide on whether you want the snail or > > not since the snail is not compatible with your other two. Neither > > Angelfish nor Mystery Snails will tolerate brackish water conditions > > needed as a minimum for the crab. > > > > What size tank do you have? > > > > What are your baseline water parameters? Not right out the tap but > > after the tap water has been allowed to sit out at room temp for 24 to > > 48 hours to see what it is like after it outgasses any gasses that are > > in the water when it's in the pipes. See my blog article on "Find your > > tap/source water baseline". > > > > If you are intent on keeping all three species that you have, you > > could get a 10G tank set-up, at WalMart, for a relatively low cost, > > which would include the tank, filter and lighting... and possibly some > > accessories. You shouldn't need a heater since saltwater/brackish > > water will usually be colder than tropical/room temperatures anyhow. > > Then you could set that up as a brackish water biotope with some land > > mass, the crab and even add some fish like guppies or mollies which do > > well in brackish water. You would have to slowly acclimate them from > > freshwater to brackish water but once they are acclimated, they should > > be fine... and then the crab will help to keep down the population of > > the guppies/mollies. .. or just get all males so you don't have the > > issue and maintenance headaches of overcrowding a 10G with lots of > > babies. > > > > Here's a couple of GOOD articles on starting up a brackish tank/biotope. > > > > http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html > > <http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html> > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm > > <http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm> > > > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_ > > Biotop > > <http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish > > _Biotop> > > e.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > > Of ker11306 > > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > > com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > > > awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the > > eggs are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very > helpful. > > Thanks!! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > ...> wrote: > > > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > > above the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They > > > usually hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch > > > more snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They > > > can lay as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and > > > can easily take over your entire tank if they all survive. > > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can > > > be found at: > > > www.applesnail. net > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood > > > > of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i > > > > saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look > > > > like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never > > > > thought about that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of > > > > the water so it never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need > > > > info > on snail eggs? > > > > lol >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46819	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and green hair algae

We went to the store today and came away with two botias and three ottos. Not expecting them to cope with all the snails or algae, but hoping they will be part of the regimen. The hair algae appeared after I pruned the rampant vallisneria and cabomba along with adding reflectors to the lights, as I mentioned before. I plan to let the plants grow back (but not to quite the level they were before) in the hope that will help slow the algae down... I don't mind some MTS, but if I can reduce the population by using the lettuce leaf trick along with the loaches hopefully munching on the new 'hatchings' it should help. Will report back in due course :-) Thanks for all the suggestions, Tricia There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't. ----------------- On 16 Feb, in article <4B7AC4A1.3060604@...>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > I had a thought last night, just wanted to see if my thought was > correct or not. I agree that larger Loaches will take care of > larger MTS, now my thought is... If clown loaches grow very slowly > you would actually need to buy older clown loaches from your LFS > and trade them in fairly often so they don't get health issues, > but that seems a little cruel to me (to keep an over sized fish in > a smaller tank), but I suppose if it's kept to a short time frame > it would work. I would think if you're buying the smaller clown > loaches and raising them to (say 4 inches), then give them back, > that they aren't large enough to eat the full grown MTS. But this > is just my guess. Why not buy one of the smaller botia loaches and > let it grow to full size (which range from 4-6 inches depending on > which loach you were to get)? > Amber > sevenspringss@... wrote: > > If prearranged with your LFS for trading in as the fish grows, > > its size in one's tank is only determined by one's scheduling in > > returning it, and the size it's allowed to grow to by the owner. > > If the tank will support it, a larger Loach will take care of > > larger MTS's, which can be an important point if being over-run > > by larger snails. Ray</HTML> --

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46820	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: The babies love daphnia!

I tried frozen daphnia for the ram fry tonight and it was a huge hit. I feel that this will round out their diet nicely with the baby brine shrimp. None seem to have perished from the transfer to the 20 long. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46821	From: lioctopi1116	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Rocky visits my pond

Hello Fish Folk. I have 20+ koi in my backyard (3500 gal pond) here in a mildly rural part of Long Island. It's currently netted with aerator for an air patch. The other night I noticed a HUGE (I mean HUGE! Never saw it before) racoon wobbling through my yard and toward my pond then disappear in the darkness. No way was I going out to see where it went. The next day I went out to find his footprints heading across the pond, investigating the hole in the ice/snow along the way. Can anyone give me an idea on how to deter him from coming back, say, in the spring when the net is off? I'm sure he has a conscious note in his head where to find fresh fish for dinner now. I managed to deter a young snowy egret from frequenting with a statue that I move religiously. Now this? I don't want to use traps because there are cats and a harmless oppossum around my yard. I really don't think a statue will do much for her (assuming the size means it's a she), she's probably already taken. Help! }(((>~~* .·:*¨~MóNi'~¨*:·. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46822	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

There are safe-catch traps that you can use and if/when you catch a cat or opossum, just release it, until you catch the raccoon. But remember, where there is one, there are usually more. I bet Raccoon Stew makes for good eatin' this time of year! ;-) Here's a recipe... http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1948,149173-240206,00.html Other than trapping, you can use other methods to dissuade visits by ground predators. A 12" to 24" high wall around the pond, right at the waters edge, will deter most ground predators. They might get up on the wall but they won't be able to reach down into the water. This will also deter many short legged birds but long legged birds will still stand in the shallow waters. Technically, the best thing for a pond is to have the entire pond lined with a vertical wall under water, at least a foot or two deep so there aren't any shallow areas at all... but if the pond is already built and has shallow areas, then that area could be netted and the wall put up around the rest of the perimeter of the pond. Those garden stones that are designed to be stacked work well and look nice. You could even put potted plants along the wall to make it more decorative. Other methods that I haven't tried include spreading canine urine around the perimeter of the pond which would deter most ground based predators. They also sell a synthetic wolf or fox urine for this purpose. I've read that burying dog pooh all around the perimeter will also work. Like most things, a multi-layered defense is probably best. I hope everyone had a Happy Mardi Gras!!! Ooops... I forgot... the rest of y'all don't have Mardi Gras! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lioctopi1116 Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond Hello Fish Folk. I have 20+ koi in my backyard (3500 gal pond) here in a mildly rural part of Long Island. It's currently netted with aerator for an air patch. The other night I noticed a HUGE (I mean HUGE! Never saw it before) racoon wobbling through my yard and toward my pond then disappear in the darkness. No way was I going out to see where it went. The next day I went out to find his footprints heading across the pond, investigating the hole in the ice/snow along the way. Can anyone give me an idea on how to deter him from coming back, say, in the spring when the net is off? I'm sure he has a conscious note in his head where to find fresh fish for dinner now. I managed to deter a young snowy egret from frequenting with a statue that I move religiously. Now this? I don't want to use traps because there are cats and a harmless oppossum around my yard. I really don't think a statue will do much for her (assuming the size means it's a she), she's probably already taken. Help! }(((>~~* .·:*¨~MóNi'~¨*:·.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46823	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

The sooner you get her into that temporary home and start slowly adding marine salt, a teaspoon per gallon per day for the next six days, the better her chances of survival. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ker11306 Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE well even if the crab could tolerate freshwater, she still isnt acting the way she used to. She used to walk around the tank and check things out and look for things on the bottom of the tank now its just under the rock, WAY under the rock or on top of it and out of the water. She never walks around, not during the day at least. She knows when i feed the angelfish and she comes to the top of the rock and catches the food that comes to the edge of the rock and then she goes back down, she doesnt seem to like the crab pellets i got, she eats the flakes. She has not shed her shell yet, not sure how long before they do that but she has turned darker brownish color then she was when we got her. Its hard to tell if shes ok or not because i dont know what they normally do and she already seems to not fit the normal profile of a fiddler. The fish store people also told me that she would grab the angelfish and she didnt even grab the dead one that we had a few weeks ago died a few days after we got it. But if she were not tolerating the freshwater, then that would explain the lack of activity. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > How close to the coast? Many freshwater rivers are brackish due to > salt water creep from oceans (or the Gulf of Mexico in my case). Even > the GREAT Mississippi River has a lot of salt water creep, especially > during slow flowing times of the year... and slow flowing in the > Mississippi is still quite fast compared to most other rivers. They > had some great aerial photos showing this a few years back, before > Katrina, and you could see the blue-green Gulf of Mexico water > creeping up WAY INLAND almost up to New Orleans, which is quite a ways > up river from the Gulf. Storms and hurricanes will also push saltwater further inland. > > INTERESTING!!!! I was looking for info on how brackish the St. Johns > River gets and Wikipedia says it's a north flowing river in North > America which is quite rare. Rivers in the Northern Hemisphere flow > to the south and rivers in the Southern Hemisphere flow to the north > so the St. John's River is the exception to the rule. Here's what the > article says about salt water intrusion... > > "As distance between the mouth of the St. Johns and the middle and > upper basins increases, the salinity in the river gradually decreases. > Marine water measures at 35 parts per thousand (ppt) or more while > fresh water measures below 2 ppt. What ranges in between is > characterized as brackish water. Near the center of Jacksonville, > average measures have been collected at 11.40 ppt. Farther south at > the Buckman Bridge, joining the south side of Jacksonville to Orange > Park, it decreases to 2.9 ppt and falls again to 0.81 ppt at the Shands Bridge near Green Cove Springs.[76][77]" > (END SNIP) > > I'm not saying there aren't fresh water fiddler crabs but the > overwhelming majority of the fiddler crabs available in stores are the > common salt water variety found in close proximity to salt water... like Jacksonville, FL. > Nice city BTW. It reminded me a lot of New Orleans when I went there > a while back. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Enid Rodriguez > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > Ok, I'm going to jump in on this one. My brother used to live in a > "riverfront" property in Jacksonville, Florida and we spent an > afternoon checking out the fiddlers in the backyard. The river in > question is the Saint John river.  It is freshwater and the fiddler > crab commuty was quite crowded, in fact, our post digging project > almost got scraped because everytime we dug we came out with the > little guys, some intact, some not so much... > So, what I'm saying is thet yes, there are freshies and there are brackish. > Just make sure you identify yours correctly. Saltwater crabs last less > than a week in freshwater, some less than a day ( I speak from > experience), carefull you don't kill it with salt. > Enid > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 10:35:39 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > >   > Looks like we're both having typitis attacks. You typed "Fiddler > shrimp", which I imagine a shrimp could play four fiddles if it chose > to... and further down, I typed "you have to decide on whether you > want the snail or not..." but I meant to type crab since the snail and > Angelfish are compatible but the crab is not compatible with either of them. > > As far as the temperatures, I'm sure it depends on the species. > Fiddler crabs are found on many coastlines up and down the east and > left coast of America and I'm sure in many other climates and only the > regions near the equator would provide those kinds of temps year > round. Even the Gulf Of Mexico gets pretty darned cold during the > winter... even more so along the coast where the shallower waters are > more affected by the surface temperatures. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > Fiddler shrimp like temps between 75-85F, from the sites I found... > perhaps cooler would be fine too, but they are found near the shore > where it should be warmer. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Female Mystery Snails can carry sperm from a previous mating for up > > to six months and lay several clutches of fertilized eggs from that > > previous mating so there's always the chance that the eggs are > > fertilized. > > > > I see in another post that you have an Angelfish, the snail and the > > fiddler crab so you have to decide on whether you want the snail or > > not since the snail is not compatible with your other two. Neither > > Angelfish nor Mystery Snails will tolerate brackish water conditions > > needed as a minimum for the crab. > > > > What size tank do you have? > > > > What are your baseline water parameters? Not right out the tap but > > after the tap water has been allowed to sit out at room temp for 24 > > to > > 48 hours to see what it is like after it outgasses any gasses that > > are in the water when it's in the pipes. See my blog article on > > "Find your tap/source water baseline". > > > > If you are intent on keeping all three species that you have, you > > could get a 10G tank set-up, at WalMart, for a relatively low cost, > > which would include the tank, filter and lighting... and possibly > > some accessories. You shouldn't need a heater since > > saltwater/brackish water will usually be colder than tropical/room temperatures anyhow. > > Then you could set that up as a brackish water biotope with some > > land mass, the crab and even add some fish like guppies or mollies > > which do well in brackish water. You would have to slowly acclimate > > them from freshwater to brackish water but once they are acclimated, > > they should be fine... and then the crab will help to keep down the > > population of the guppies/mollies. .. or just get all males so you > > don't have the issue and maintenance headaches of overcrowding a 10G > > with lots of babies. > > > > Here's a couple of GOOD articles on starting up a brackish tank/biotope. > > > > http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html > > <http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html> > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm > > <http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm> > > > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackis > > h_ > > Biotop > > <http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Bracki > > sh > > _Biotop> > > e.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife@ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > > Of ker11306 > > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > > com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > > > awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the > > eggs are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very > helpful. > > Thanks!! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife > > %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > > above the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They > > > usually hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a > > > bunch more snails then I would reccommend removing the snail > > > clutch. They can lay as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg > > > clutches, and can easily take over your entire tank if they all survive. > > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) > > > can be found at: > > > www.applesnail. net > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the > > > > hood of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this > > > > group i saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what > > > > they look like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would > > > > have never thought about that laying eggs and i have never seen > > > > it up out of the water so it never crossed my mind. So im > > > > thinking now i need info > on snail eggs? > > > > lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46824	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

He was in the city itself, we saw many a freshwater turtle cruising thru and caught both the florida mystery snail and conger eels ( not really an eel, actually a salamander). We fenced in the yard to keep my them 5 year old nephew from going in to explore the wetland. (because the "go forth and find out" gene runs strong in the family). Also plenty of crappy, catfish and mosquito fish in there. No longer in Jax, thou, I prefer the boonies and live in the panhandle of Florida, 4 hours from NO. Enid ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 8:44:08 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE   How close to the coast? Many freshwater rivers are brackish due to salt water creep from oceans (or the Gulf of Mexico in my case). Even the GREAT Mississippi River has a lot of salt water creep, especially during slow flowing times of the year... and slow flowing in the Mississippi is still quite fast compared to most other rivers. They had some great aerial photos showing this a few years back, before Katrina, and you could see the blue-green Gulf of Mexico water creeping up WAY INLAND almost up to New Orleans, which is quite a ways up river from the Gulf. Storms and hurricanes will also push saltwater further inland. INTERESTING! !!! I was looking for info on how brackish the St. Johns River gets and Wikipedia says it's a north flowing river in North America which is quite rare. Rivers in the Northern Hemisphere flow to the south and rivers in the Southern Hemisphere flow to the north so the St. John's River is the exception to the rule. Here's what the article says about salt water intrusion... "As distance between the mouth of the St. Johns and the middle and upper basins increases, the salinity in the river gradually decreases. Marine water measures at 35 parts per thousand (ppt) or more while fresh water measures below 2 ppt. What ranges in between is characterized as brackish water. Near the center of Jacksonville, average measures have been collected at 11.40 ppt. Farther south at the Buckman Bridge, joining the south side of Jacksonville to Orange Park, it decreases to 2.9 ppt and falls again to 0.81 ppt at the Shands Bridge near Green Cove Springs.[76] [77]" (END SNIP) I'm not saying there aren't fresh water fiddler crabs but the overwhelming majority of the fiddler crabs available in stores are the common salt water variety found in close proximity to salt water... like Jacksonville, FL. Nice city BTW. It reminded me a lot of New Orleans when I went there a while back. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Enid Rodriguez Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:39 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE Ok, I'm going to jump in on this one. My brother used to live in a "riverfront" property in Jacksonville, Florida and we spent an afternoon checking out the fiddlers in the backyard. The river in question is the Saint John river.  It is freshwater and the fiddler crab commuty was quite crowded, in fact, our post digging project almost got scraped because everytime we dug we came out with the little guys, some intact, some not so much... So, what I'm saying is thet yes, there are freshies and there are brackish. Just make sure you identify yours correctly. Saltwater crabs last less than a week in freshwater, some less than a day ( I speak from experience), carefull you don't kill it with salt. Enid ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 10:35:39 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE   Looks like we're both having typitis attacks. You typed "Fiddler shrimp", which I imagine a shrimp could play four fiddles if it chose to... and further down, I typed "you have to decide on whether you want the snail or not..." but I meant to type crab since the snail and Angelfish are compatible but the crab is not compatible with either of them. As far as the temperatures, I'm sure it depends on the species. Fiddler crabs are found on many coastlines up and down the east and left coast of America and I'm sure in many other climates and only the regions near the equator would provide those kinds of temps year round. Even the Gulf Of Mexico gets pretty darned cold during the winter... even more so along the coast where the shallower waters are more affected by the surface temperatures. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE Fiddler shrimp like temps between 75-85F, from the sites I found... perhaps cooler would be fine too, but they are found near the shore where it should be warmer. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Female Mystery Snails can carry sperm from a previous mating for up to > six months and lay several clutches of fertilized eggs from that > previous mating so there's always the chance that the eggs are > fertilized. > > I see in another post that you have an Angelfish, the snail and the > fiddler crab so you have to decide on whether you want the snail or > not since the snail is not compatible with your other two. Neither > Angelfish nor Mystery Snails will tolerate brackish water conditions > needed as a minimum for the crab. > > What size tank do you have? > > What are your baseline water parameters? Not right out the tap but > after the tap water has been allowed to sit out at room temp for 24 to > 48 hours to see what it is like after it outgasses any gasses that are > in the water when it's in the pipes. See my blog article on "Find your > tap/source water baseline". > > If you are intent on keeping all three species that you have, you > could get a 10G tank set-up, at WalMart, for a relatively low cost, > which would include the tank, filter and lighting... and possibly some > accessories. You shouldn't need a heater since saltwater/brackish > water will usually be colder than tropical/room temperatures anyhow. > Then you could set that up as a brackish water biotope with some land > mass, the crab and even add some fish like guppies or mollies which do > well in brackish water. You would have to slowly acclimate them from > freshwater to brackish water but once they are acclimated, they should > be fine... and then the crab will help to keep down the population of > the guppies/mollies. .. or just get all males so you don't have the > issue and maintenance headaches of overcrowding a 10G with lots of > babies. > > Here's a couple of GOOD articles on starting up a brackish tank/biotope. > > http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html > <http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html> > > http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm > <http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm> > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_ > Biotop > <http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish > _Biotop> > e.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > Of ker11306 > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the > eggs are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very helpful. > Thanks!! > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > ...> wrote: > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > above the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They > > usually hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch > > more snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They > > can lay as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and > > can easily take over your entire tank if they all survive. > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can > > be found at: > > www.applesnail. net > > > > Amber > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood > > > of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i > > > saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look > > > like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never > > > thought about that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of > > > the water so it never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need > > > info on snail eggs? > > > lol [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46825	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE

she could be getting ready to molt, which would explain her hiding. makr\e sure she has a safe cave were nobody else can get into. Enid ________________________________ From: ker11306 <ker11306@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 12:38:27 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE   well even if the crab could tolerate freshwater, she still isnt acting the way she used to. She used to walk around the tank and check things out and look for things on the bottom of the tank now its just under the rock, WAY under the rock or on top of it and out of the water. She never walks around, not during the day at least. She knows when i feed the angelfish and she comes to the top of the rock and catches the food that comes to the edge of the rock and then she goes back down, she doesnt seem to like the crab pellets i got, she eats the flakes. She has not shed her shell yet, not sure how long before they do that but she has turned darker brownish color then she was when we got her. Its hard to tell if shes ok or not because i dont know what they normally do and she already seems to not fit the normal profile of a fiddler. The fish store people also told me that she would grab the angelfish and she didnt even grab the dead one that we had a few weeks ago died a few days after we got it. But if she were not tolerating the freshwater, then that would explain the lack of activity. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > How close to the coast? Many freshwater rivers are brackish due to salt > water creep from oceans (or the Gulf of Mexico in my case). Even the GREAT > Mississippi River has a lot of salt water creep, especially during slow > flowing times of the year... and slow flowing in the Mississippi is still > quite fast compared to most other rivers. They had some great aerial photos > showing this a few years back, before Katrina, and you could see the > blue-green Gulf of Mexico water creeping up WAY INLAND almost up to New > Orleans, which is quite a ways up river from the Gulf. Storms and > hurricanes will also push saltwater further inland. > > INTERESTING! !!! I was looking for info on how brackish the St. Johns River > gets and Wikipedia says it's a north flowing river in North America which is > quite rare. Rivers in the Northern Hemisphere flow to the south and rivers > in the Southern Hemisphere flow to the north so the St. John's River is the > exception to the rule. Here's what the article says about salt water > intrusion... > > "As distance between the mouth of the St. Johns and the middle and upper > basins increases, the salinity in the river gradually decreases. Marine > water measures at 35 parts per thousand (ppt) or more while fresh water > measures below 2 ppt. What ranges in between is characterized as brackish > water. Near the center of Jacksonville, average measures have been collected > at 11.40 ppt. Farther south at the Buckman Bridge, joining the south side of > Jacksonville to Orange Park, it decreases to 2.9 ppt and falls again to 0.81 > ppt at the Shands Bridge near Green Cove Springs.[76] [77]" > (END SNIP) > > I'm not saying there aren't fresh water fiddler crabs but the overwhelming > majority of the fiddler crabs available in stores are the common salt water > variety found in close proximity to salt water... like Jacksonville, FL. > Nice city BTW. It reminded me a lot of New Orleans when I went there a > while back. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of Enid Rodriguez > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > Ok, I'm going to jump in on this one. My brother used to live in a > "riverfront" property in Jacksonville, Florida and we spent an afternoon > checking out the fiddlers in the backyard. The river in question is the > Saint John river.  It is freshwater and the fiddler crab commuty was quite > crowded, in fact, our post digging project almost got scraped because > everytime we dug we came out with the little guys, some intact, some not so > much... > So, what I'm saying is thet yes, there are freshies and there are brackish. > Just make sure you identify yours correctly. Saltwater crabs last less than > a week in freshwater, some less than a day ( I speak from experience), > carefull you don't kill it with salt. > Enid > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@. ..> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 10:35:39 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > >   > Looks like we're both having typitis attacks. You typed "Fiddler shrimp", > which I imagine a shrimp could play four fiddles if it chose to... and > further down, I typed "you have to decide on whether you want the snail or > not..." but I meant to type crab since the snail and Angelfish are > compatible but the crab is not compatible with either of them. > > As far as the temperatures, I'm sure it depends on the species. Fiddler > crabs are found on many coastlines up and down the east and left coast of > America and I'm sure in many other climates and only the regions near the > equator would provide those kinds of temps year round. Even the Gulf Of > Mexico gets pretty darned cold during the winter... even more so along the > coast where the shallower waters are more affected by the surface > temperatures. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > Fiddler shrimp like temps between 75-85F, from the sites I found... > perhaps cooler would be fine too, but they are found near the shore where it > should be warmer. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Female Mystery Snails can carry sperm from a previous mating for up to > > six months and lay several clutches of fertilized eggs from that > > previous mating so there's always the chance that the eggs are > > fertilized. > > > > I see in another post that you have an Angelfish, the snail and the > > fiddler crab so you have to decide on whether you want the snail or > > not since the snail is not compatible with your other two. Neither > > Angelfish nor Mystery Snails will tolerate brackish water conditions > > needed as a minimum for the crab. > > > > What size tank do you have? > > > > What are your baseline water parameters? Not right out the tap but > > after the tap water has been allowed to sit out at room temp for 24 to > > 48 hours to see what it is like after it outgasses any gasses that are > > in the water when it's in the pipes. See my blog article on "Find your > > tap/source water baseline". > > > > If you are intent on keeping all three species that you have, you > > could get a 10G tank set-up, at WalMart, for a relatively low cost, > > which would include the tank, filter and lighting... and possibly some > > accessories. You shouldn't need a heater since saltwater/brackish > > water will usually be colder than tropical/room temperatures anyhow. > > Then you could set that up as a brackish water biotope with some land > > mass, the crab and even add some fish like guppies or mollies which do > > well in brackish water. You would have to slowly acclimate them from > > freshwater to brackish water but once they are acclimated, they should > > be fine... and then the crab will help to keep down the population of > > the guppies/mollies. .. or just get all males so you don't have the > > issue and maintenance headaches of overcrowding a 10G with lots of > > babies. > > > > Here's a couple of GOOD articles on starting up a brackish tank/biotope. > > > > http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html > > <http://badmanstropi calfish.com/ brackish/ brackish. html> > > > > http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm > > <http://fish. mongabay. com/biotope_ cen_america_ estuary.htm> > > > > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish_ > > Biotop > > <http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Gordon&Stuart_Brackish > > _Biotop> > > e.html > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com <http://GoldLenny. > > blogspot. com> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:AquaticLife @ > > yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>] On Behalf > > Of ker11306 > > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:36 PM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. > > com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: into and question on crabs UPDATE > > > > awesome thanks! I only have one snail in there so im not sure if the > > eggs are fertilized or not. I looked at that website and it was very > helpful. > > Thanks!! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > ...> wrote: > > > > > > If you have a (commonly called) Mystery Snail, they do lay eggs > > > above the water line, they are usually a white-pinkish color. They > > > usually hatch in about 2 weeks (I think). If you don't want a bunch > > > more snails then I would reccommend removing the snail clutch. They > > > can lay as many as 200-600 eggs/babies in those egg clutches, and > > > can easily take over your entire tank if they all survive. > > > Lots of info on mystery snails (they are a type of Apple Snail) can > > > be found at: > > > www.applesnail. net > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ker11306 wrote: > > > > > > > > ok, i just posted a question about possible crab eggs on the hood > > > > of my tank. Well after reading some of the posts on this group i > > > > saw one about snail eggs, i googled it and thats what they look > > > > like! We do have a big yellow shelled snail! I would have never > > > > thought about that laying eggs and i have never seen it up out of > > > > the water so it never crossed my mind. So im thinking now i need > > > > info > on snail eggs? > > > > lol > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46826	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Brackish?

Christine, I've been meaning to chime in on this, but just have not had the time to do justice to the subject. Some of this stuff has already been covered, but will be iterated here once more, and I apologize for that, but it is probably better to have repeated than for me to try to remember exactly what has been covered previously. 1. Brackish water is simply a transitional water, normally found where fresh water meets marine water. It is the salt content that defines the water as being brackish, less salt than marine, but more salt than fresh. When you measure the amount of salt, you are really measuring the specific gravity. You can use a hydrometer or a refractometer to determine the specific gravity, which should be between 1.003 and 1.015. 2. Brackish fish can live in fresh water or marine water for short periods of time with no ill effects. However, most fresh water fish and most marine fish cannot live in brackish water for even short periods without showing ill effects of doing so. 3. Very few plants will grow in brackish water. If you do want live plants, research this topic very well prior to making your choices. Most of these plants will need a transition period to become used to the brackish water. They have spent their entire lives in fresh and need some time to get used to the salt. There are a couple of ways to pursue this. You can place the plants in your tank filled with fresh water and then slowly raise the salt level over a period of weeks or months to give them time to adjust to the salt, If you are in a hurry to get the fish in, you can set up a second tank just to be used for adjusting the plants to the salted water. 4. The salinity of the water over time does not matter very much. Letting it rise and fall by using water changes with varying amounts of salt in the replacement water, or even using fresh water would be an easy way to accomplish this. This will emulate the changes the fish would experience in the wild. Just try not to exceed the extreme I stipulated above. 5. You can and should use a good quality marine salt mix though table salt can be used in a pinch. They contain several different kinds of salts, not just the sodium chloride that makes up table salt. A good marine mix also contains trace elements which are important to the life and health of the fish over time, and may also help the plants you have if any. 6. Since you are dealing with a salt environment, make sure all the equipment you use in and around the tank is marine grade to try to avoid any corrosion issues. 7. The puffers you mentioned earlier can be trouble. These guys have teeth. They know how to use those teeth. Other fishes may not survive with them intact. The puffers need something to keep those teeth of theirs worn down. The can be excellent snail eaters, and this will help them control the growth of their teeth. As usual, try to fully research any fish you would like to add to your tank first. 8. There are many fish available that live in brackish water. Take a look at the livebearers. Take a look at this listing on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_brackish_aquarium_fish_species, http://tinyurl.com/yfftfrv or, checkout this listing, http://www.aquariumfish.net/indexes/brackish.htm A favorite of mine is the Anablebs spp. They are also called the four eyed fish, since they do, in effect, have four eyes. They, and the Jenynsia, a freshwater fish, are unique in the they are left handed or right handed when it comes to reproduction. The male's gonopodium angles to the right or the left, and need a compatible female with which to mate. I.e., a left handed male needs to mate with a right handed female. The badman's site has a good page on starting a brackish tank along with some stocking suggestions. You might want to have a peek at http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brackish? I have another novice fish keeper question. What is the difference between marine and aquarium salt? I usually add a little aquarium salt to my tank when I do a water change. Something my Dad always did. Is this a common practice? My fish seem to be healthy and thriving.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46827	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

Aside from all the good info that Lenny has provided, I have a 3200 gallon pond and there's no way I could ever house 20 full size koi in my pond. When they get full size, they can reach nearly 3' long. Your koi must only be about a foot long (or less) right now, I'm betting, but as they grow (and they can grow up to 6" in a season), they're going to be way too crowded. Getting back to the racoon problem, you haven't gone into any more detail, but I'd like to add that koi pond should never be built in any manner that has gently sloping sides that makes it easier for any bird or racoon to gain access to the fish. Racoons don't really like to wade too far into the water anyway, so steeply inclined sides helps prevent them from reaching the fish. Besides, such a pond should be at least 3' deep, not only to allow for the fish to stay out of reach near the bottom, but to allow for adequate depth in your latitude when the pond freezes over. My pond has one small section that is 6' deep, with much of the rest of it being 5' deep, and yes, there's a smaller section that is 2 1/2" deep (a water lily shelf) but it has near vertical sides and no predator can gradually walk out into it or stand in it -- unless we're talking about a grizzley! There are shelters ("tunnels"), called "Koi Kastles" that can be bought that are placed on the bottom and provide the fish with shelter in that they can hide away from predators at the first sight of them. These "Kastles" are manufactured both as having a solid covering or a mess-type covering so that you can still see if they're there. You could even build your own such shelters which the fish will learn to use, simply by using large paving stones or garden walkway slates as the roofs set on top of cinder blocks. Koi will learn fast, what these predators are -- and will seek shelter when the do appear -- but these fish unfortunately often must first learn about them from experiencing attacks on themselves (with their narrow escape) that result in their seeing some of their pond mates being taken by these marauders. Keep us posted on this as the ice recedes. Cold water temperatures will have the fish acting lethargically until it warms up more in April, and they can make for easy prey before that time. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46828	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: The babies love daphnia!

You could try frozen Mysis Shrimp as an alternative. It has lots of protein (from the right sources) and caroteins. Feed it sparingly at first until the fish get used to it, as you don't want excesses it it (or any food) lying about the bottom of the aquarium uneaten for any length of time. As with any other frozen foods, I always prefer Hikari brand as they ensure the freshest and cleanest products as they go in to the quick-freeze process. Do not attempt to feed the fish any frozen bloodworms yet though, as this food is still too large for them to handle it yet. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46829	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: The babies love daphnia!

I do have Hikari, Ray, and I did try the mysis tonight but it was way too big and they didn't eat it. So I went with the daphnia which was the perfect size for their mouths. Is daphnia not such a good option then? They really aren't taking to any flakes yet. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 16, 2010, at 11:18 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > You could try frozen Mysis Shrimp as an alternative. It has lots of > protein (from the right sources) and caroteins. Feed it sparingly > at first until > the fish get used to it, as you don't want excesses it it (or any > food) > lying about the bottom of the aquarium uneaten for any length of > time. As with > any other frozen foods, I always prefer Hikari brand as they ensure > the > freshest and cleanest products as they go in to the quick-freeze > process. Do > not attempt to feed the fish any frozen bloodworms yet though, as > this food > is still too large for them to handle it yet. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46830	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

How about humane traps and a good scaring before release? I'm sure others will have better wisdom on this. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "lioctopi1116" <lioctopi1116@...> Hello Fish Folk. I have 20+ koi in my backyard (3500 gal pond) here in a mildly rural part of Long Island. It's currently netted with aerator for an air patch. The other night I noticed a HUGE (I mean HUGE! Never saw it before) racoon wobbling through my yard and toward my pond then disappear in the darkness. No way was I going out to see where it went. The next day I went out to find his footprints heading across the pond, investigating the hole in the ice/snow along the way. Can anyone give me an idea on how to deter him from coming back, say, in the spring when the net is off? I'm sure he has a conscious note in his head where to find fresh fish for dinner now. I managed to deter a young snowy egret from frequenting with a statue that I move religiously. Now this? I don't want to use traps because there are cats and a harmless oppossum around my yard. I really don't think a statue will do much for her (assuming the size means it's a she), she's probably already taken. Help! }(((>~~* .·:*¨~MóNi'~¨*:·.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46831	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

Hello, Like others mentioned, a humane trap is the way to go. Just be careful around the possums and the racoons. I do believe they can carry rabies. I know, you weren't planning on putting your hand in their mouth anyway ;) Most cats, mine being the exception, are smart enough to not get caught in the same trap twice. Got skunks? Cause you may end up with them in the trap. I have one living under my house and the darn thing will not get in the trap! What shape is the pond? Round, square, kidney etc.. How many square feet? You may want to try covering it with a net at night although a racoon may chew through the net. Very wise not chasing after it in the dark. I used to get them on my front porch every night and I thought it was fun to throw open the screen door and surprise them. Then one night I had one that stood up on it's hind legs and looked like it was almost four feet tall! I quietly closed the metal screen door and locked it They may come by and wash their food in the pond. They do this in the cat's waterbowl and it really is a foul mess! -Mike http://www.holoweb.com/cannon/racoon.htm -----Original Message----- From: lioctopi1116 <lioctopi1116@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2010 2:22 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond   Hello Fish Folk. I have 20+ koi in my backyard (3500 gal pond) here in a mildly rural part of Long Island. It's currently netted with aerator for an air patch. The other night I noticed a HUGE (I mean HUGE! Never saw it before) racoon wobbling through my yard and toward my pond then disappear in the darkness. No way was I going out to see where it went. The next day I went out to find his footprints heading across the pond, investigating the hole in the ice/snow along the way. Can anyone give me an idea on how to deter him from coming back, say, in the spring when the net is off? I'm sure he has a conscious note in his head where to find fresh fish for dinner now. I managed to deter a young snowy egret from frequenting with a statue that I move religiously. Now this? I don't want to use traps because there are cats and a harmless oppossum around my yard. I really don't think a statue will do much for her (assuming the size means it's a she), she's probably already taken. Help! }(((>~~* .·:*¨~MóNi'~¨*:·. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/16/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

Good catch Ray! Guess I was still over the .10 when I replied earlier. LOL I did just get in from Mardi Gras'ing all day. I concur that one should have 300G per Koi if they are mixed in size and 500G per Koi for large fish... 20"+. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond Aside from all the good info that Lenny has provided, I have a 3200 gallon pond and there's no way I could ever house 20 full size koi in my pond. When they get full size, they can reach nearly 3' long. Your koi must only be about a foot long (or less) right now, I'm betting, but as they grow (and they can grow up to 6" in a season), they're going to be way too crowded. Getting back to the racoon problem, you haven't gone into any more detail, but I'd like to add that koi pond should never be built in any manner that has gently sloping sides that makes it easier for any bird or racoon to gain access to the fish. Racoons don't really like to wade too far into the water anyway, so steeply inclined sides helps prevent them from reaching the fish. Besides, such a pond should be at least 3' deep, not only to allow for the fish to stay out of reach near the bottom, but to allow for adequate depth in your latitude when the pond freezes over. My pond has one small section that is 6' deep, with much of the rest of it being 5' deep, and yes, there's a smaller section that is 2 1/2" deep (a water lily shelf) but it has near vertical sides and no predator can gradually walk out into it or stand in it -- unless we're talking about a grizzley! There are shelters ("tunnels"), called "Koi Kastles" that can be bought that are placed on the bottom and provide the fish with shelter in that they can hide away from predators at the first sight of them. These "Kastles" are manufactured both as having a solid covering or a mess-type covering so that you can still see if they're there. You could even build your own such shelters which the fish will learn to use, simply by using large paving stones or garden walkway slates as the roofs set on top of cinder blocks. Koi will learn fast, what these predators are -- and will seek shelter when the do appear -- but these fish unfortunately often must first learn about them from experiencing attacks on themselves (with their narrow escape) that result in their seeing some of their pond mates being taken by these marauders. Keep us posted on this as the ice recedes. Cold water temperatures will have the fish acting lethargically until it warms up more in April, and they can make for easy prey before that time. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46833	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: The babies love daphnia!

Hi Lainey, I had suggested frozen Mysis as it's soft and easily picked apart (besides having the nutritional benefits I mentioned). But if the fish aren't going for it yet there's no sense using it. No too many years ago, Daphnia used to have the reputation of having a lot of "shell," with the result that too frequent feedings of it could act as a laxative -- besides this portion of it not being especially nutritious, but I think it has gotten a bad rapp. Lately, more and more hobbyists are back to using it although many people are still on the fence about this "shell" controversy thing of this food. Fifty years ago or more, the more ambitious hobbists used to go out collecting this live food in bucket-fulls, freeze much of it, and keep a good portion alive for feedings of it over an extended period of time just as it was collected, or until it started to die out -- AND, these hobbyists found that there was nothing like live food -- including DAPHNIA -- that promoted the growth and breeding of their fish over any other foods (with prepared foods, such as "Gordon's Formula" coming in second). BTW, once added to an aquarium (and unlike live Brine shrimp), any uneaten live Daphnia will stay alive until it is eaten. Still, it has always been of even greater benefit to offer the fish a variety of different foods -- which is why I recommended trying Mysis Shrimp -- BUT, a good alternative food that can be used (which is about the same size as the Daphnia) is frozen Cyclops if you can find it. As with many other foods new to the fish, they may not take to it immediately but need to have it put in front of them a few times -- so if you do see it, get a small portion of it to begin with. Sometimes, a new food needs to be mixed in with the old food for a number of feedings before it's recognized as "food." Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46834	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

YO Lenny, I'm surprised that you did not ask if Adrian was also visiting her pond < g >. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46835	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

What do you do about the herons? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond Aside from all the good info that Lenny has provided, I have a 3200 gallon pond and there's no way I could ever house 20 full size koi in my pond. When they get full size, they can reach nearly 3' long. Your koi must only be about a foot long (or less) right now, I'm betting, but as they grow (and they can grow up to 6" in a season), they're going to be way too crowded. Getting back to the racoon problem, you haven't gone into any more detail, but I'd like to add that koi pond should never be built in any manner that has gently sloping sides that makes it easier for any bird or racoon to gain access to the fish. Racoons don't really like to wade too far into the water anyway, so steeply inclined sides helps prevent them from reaching the fish. Besides, such a pond should be at least 3' deep, not only to allow for the fish to stay out of reach near the bottom, but to allow for adequate depth in your latitude when the pond freezes over. My pond has one small section that is 6' deep, with much of the rest of it being 5' deep, and yes, there's a smaller section that is 2 1/2" deep (a water lily shelf) but it has near vertical sides and no predator can gradually walk out into it or stand in it -- unless we're talking about a grizzley! There are shelters ("tunnels"), called "Koi Kastles" that can be bought that are placed on the bottom and provide the fish with shelter in that they can hide away from predators at the first sight of them. These "Kastles" are manufactured both as having a solid covering or a mess-type covering so that you can still see if they're there. You could even build your own such shelters which the fish will learn to use, simply by using large paving stones or garden walkway slates as the roofs set on top of cinder blocks. Koi will learn fast, what these predators are -- and will seek shelter when the do appear -- but these fish unfortunately often must first learn about them from experiencing attacks on themselves (with their narrow escape) that result in their seeing some of their pond mates being taken by these marauders. Keep us posted on this as the ice recedes. Cold water temperatures will have the fish acting lethargically until it warms up more in April, and they can make for easy prey before that time. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46836	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

That's cuz I immediately recognized the subject as... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNRH7_Kd5Yc Besides... Rocky Balboa likes eating raw eggs and chasing chickens... not Koi! His preferred fish is YO-YO (Adrian) loaches. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond YO Lenny, I'm surprised that you did not ask if Adrian was also visiting her pond < g >. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46837	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

Netting or just nylon fishing lines at various intervals above and around the pond, a fake Heron, moved around regularly so the real Heron thinks another Heron has already staked out the territory, a Scare-Crow spitting device, which also would work for the Raccoons in non-freezing weather. The deep pond also works for Heron's since they don't like water they cannot wade into or at least see that it's shallow before landing... or the BEST thing for keeping critters away from a pond... a real live barking dog to chase everything out of his back yard... although raccoons can be formidable foes if they get cornered or decide to put up a fight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 6:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond What do you do about the herons? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond Aside from all the good info that Lenny has provided, I have a 3200 gallon pond and there's no way I could ever house 20 full size koi in my pond. When they get full size, they can reach nearly 3' long. Your koi must only be about a foot long (or less) right now, I'm betting, but as they grow (and they can grow up to 6" in a season), they're going to be way too crowded. Getting back to the racoon problem, you haven't gone into any more detail, but I'd like to add that koi pond should never be built in any manner that has gently sloping sides that makes it easier for any bird or racoon to gain access to the fish. Racoons don't really like to wade too far into the water anyway, so steeply inclined sides helps prevent them from reaching the fish. Besides, such a pond should be at least 3' deep, not only to allow for the fish to stay out of reach near the bottom, but to allow for adequate depth in your latitude when the pond freezes over. My pond has one small section that is 6' deep, with much of the rest of it being 5' deep, and yes, there's a smaller section that is 2 1/2" deep (a water lily shelf) but it has near vertical sides and no predator can gradually walk out into it or stand in it -- unless we're talking about a grizzley! There are shelters ("tunnels"), called "Koi Kastles" that can be bought that are placed on the bottom and provide the fish with shelter in that they can hide away from predators at the first sight of them. These "Kastles" are manufactured both as having a solid covering or a mess-type covering so that you can still see if they're there. You could even build your own such shelters which the fish will learn to use, simply by using large paving stones or garden walkway slates as the roofs set on top of cinder blocks. Koi will learn fast, what these predators are -- and will seek shelter when the do appear -- but these fish unfortunately often must first learn about them from experiencing attacks on themselves (with their narrow escape) that result in their seeing some of their pond mates being taken by these marauders. Keep us posted on this as the ice recedes. Cold water temperatures will have the fish acting lethargically until it warms up more in April, and they can make for easy prey before that time. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46838	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

There are a number of things you can do about Herons. First of all, to make it as difficult as possible for a Heron to wade part way into your pond, the pond sides should never taper off from ground level at a shallow more horizontal angle, but instead be built as closer to a verticle angle as practical even if they're only at a 45 o angle (or even a 30 o angle rather than a 15 o angle). Best dissuader from wading is when the sides are built more closer even to a 60 o angle rather than a 45 o angle if you don't particularly want the sides dropping straight down. Then, the depth at the bottom of the sides should already be at least 2' (even 3' is better) to prevent wading as these bird's legs aren't that long. This is not always desirable to some pond owners as they may prefer at least one side to slope in more gently, but then this only allows for birds to walk into the pond as far as they can, to wait in ambush until some suspecting fish swims into shallower water. Shallower (6" to 12" deep) bog areas are often desired, to include some of the multitude of bog plants that will dress up the perimeters of the pond, but these areas needn't be completely open to the pond proper, where smaller fish may get into them, but can be partially walled off while still allowing to be part of the pond and having a common water connection. Water lilies can be supported on built up areas in the somewhat deeper areas. The general behavior of Herons though, is to first land near the ponds edge and then walk into the pond from there. They don't just land in the water as a duck would. As such, the pond owner can place a number of short (6" to 8" high) verticle pegs into the ground about a foot away from the pond's edge and string a piece of strong (but thin) monofilament nylon fishing line between these uprights at that height. After landing near the pond's edge and as the Heron approaches the pond, it will hit its legs on this nearly invisible line which will generally startle it enough so that it takes off in fright (often not returning) as Herons' legs are very sensitive. Another method that can be used to dissuade Heron's from sticking around long even (and especially) when the pond's edge slopes off more gently, is to carve a wooden fish as near to real as possible, paint it orange so the bord can't miss it and place two eye hooks into the bottom of this "decoy" -- one near the head and one near the tail. Then string (again using monofilament) equal length pieces of fishing line from each eye hook, tying them together in a "V" away from the decoy's body. This eliminates trying to find that certain center of bouyancy in this decoy, while ensuring this decoy will tend to float in a horizontal position. Then, tie another much longer piece of fishing line -- and it should be fairly heavy, like 12 to 15 lb. test -- to the center joint of these two pieces of fishing line, allowing for about 10' to 15' of this line. A small weight, just heavy enough to keep the decoy submerged (but not much heavier than that) should be tied on this line to keep the decoy about a half a foot under the surface. The remainder of this length of line should be kept loose at the bootom and tied to a cinder block or something unmoveable. As the Heron picks up this decoy and desides to fly off with it, it will get yanked out of its mouth after it's about 10' in the air -- which is usually enough to "persuade" it not to return. An older trick, but one that needs to frequently be repositioned, is to place a dummy Heron near the pond. Heron's don't like confronting others of their own kind for food competition when scouting out a new pond for their exploration and will usually bypass a pond when they see another Heron already occupying this territory. If the dummy Heron is kept in one spot too long though, the real bird soon catches wise, which is why it must be relocated frequently -- and must look real to begin with. There are gadgets on the market, such as what's called a "Scarecrow," which is nothing more than an obviously fake-bird-shaped pond ornament (about the height of a Heron) that's placed in the ground near the pond, but facing along the edge of the pond, not at the pond. It operates (battery operated) as an electric eye and is triggered by the motion of any animal or bird that walks in front of it. It not only flashes a light and makes sound (siren), but as it's hooked up to your outside water faucet with a hose, it also sprays the intruder at the same time. I'm sure there may be other methods to be used against Herons, but these are all that come to my mind at the moment. Of course, a Rotweiler (real one -- not a dummy -- LOL) is usually a good deterent. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46839	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: surprise finding

A few days ago I was doing some minor winter maintenance on our pond set up outside. Now this past winter, we had some pretty dang cold weather and it froze over MANY TIMES. We ended up setting up a way to keep a hole in the ice. My parner and I were sure that we had lost some of the fishes listed below but SURPRISE. This past year we had introduced a few Dojos and a 2 Hifin Banded Sharks. Well, while doing the maintenace I spotted 2 Dojos and 1 of the Banded Sharks. Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46840	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

I was wondering about Bullwinkle, myself. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> YO Lenny, I'm surprised that you did not ask if Adrian was also visiting her pond < g >. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46841	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

I guess I'm the only Beatles fan. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond I was wondering about Bullwinkle, myself. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> YO Lenny, I'm surprised that you did not ask if Adrian was also visiting her pond < g >. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding

What size pond? Do you have any goldfish or Koi in the pond or just the below mentioned fish? Those Hi-fin Banded *Sharks* grow HUGE, even bigger than Koi... and they're not really "sharks", I'm sure you know. When will retailers/wholesalers quit calling freshwater fish "sharks" just to try and appeal to newbie fish keepers? While they look OK as juveniles, they grow up to be quite ugly and lose their "Hi-Fin" as well. http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinus.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ygzgjuy Be careful about doing water changes that change the temperatures right now since, depending on your region, the water should still be pretty cold right now. I'm not sure what you used for keeping a hole in the frozen over pond but the DIY floating light bulb fixture is the best thing that I've seen for keeping a hole in the ice at a low cost without causing circulation of the water so the thermoclines stay intact for the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Rattie Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:25 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] surprise finding A few days ago I was doing some minor winter maintenance on our pond set up outside. Now this past winter, we had some pretty dang cold weather and it froze over MANY TIMES. We ended up setting up a way to keep a hole in the ice. My parner and I were sure that we had lost some of the fishes listed below but SURPRISE. This past year we had introduced a few Dojos and a 2 Hifin Banded Sharks. Well, while doing the maintenace I spotted 2 Dojos and 1 of the Banded Sharks. Richard

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46843	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding

Also I don't like that tank size requirement on that site for EITHER goldfish or this "shark", seems drastically under sized to me. 10-30 gallons perhaps as a baby ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What size pond? Do you have any goldfish or Koi in the pond or just the > below mentioned fish? > > Those Hi-fin Banded *Sharks* grow HUGE, even bigger than Koi... and > they're > not really "sharks", I'm sure you know. When will retailers/wholesalers > quit calling freshwater fish "sharks" just to try and appeal to newbie > fish > keepers? While they look OK as juveniles, they grow up to be quite > ugly and > lose their "Hi-Fin" as well. > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinus.html > <http://www.csupomona.edu/%7Ejskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinus.html> > OR > http://tinyurl.com/ygzgjuy <http://tinyurl.com/ygzgjuy> > > Be careful about doing water changes that change the temperatures > right now > since, depending on your region, the water should still be pretty cold > right > now. > > I'm not sure what you used for keeping a hole in the frozen over pond but > the DIY floating light bulb fixture is the best thing that I've seen for > keeping a hole in the ice at a low cost without causing circulation of the > water so the thermoclines stay intact for the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Richard Rattie > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:25 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] surprise finding > > A few days ago I was doing some minor winter maintenance on our pond > set up > outside. > > Now this past winter, we had some pretty dang cold weather and it > froze over > MANY TIMES. We ended up setting up a way to keep a hole in the ice. > > My parner and I were sure that we had lost some of the fishes listed below > but SURPRISE. > > This past year we had introduced a few Dojos and a 2 Hifin Banded Sharks. > Well, while doing the maintenace I spotted 2 Dojos and 1 of the Banded > Sharks. > > Richard > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46844	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit outa my... fish tank ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I guess I'm the only Beatles fan. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond > > I was wondering about Bullwinkle, myself. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > YO Lenny, I'm surprised that you did not ask if Adrian was also visiting > her pond < g >. Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46845	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding

You're right, they grow up quite ugly ;) Growing to over 3 feet is quite large, but I thought some Koi got bigger than that? Perhaps I'm wrong I have never looked at owning Koi since I don't have a giant outdoor swimming pool (I mean pond, LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What size pond? Do you have any goldfish or Koi in the pond or just the > below mentioned fish? > > Those Hi-fin Banded *Sharks* grow HUGE, even bigger than Koi... and > they're > not really "sharks", I'm sure you know. When will retailers/wholesalers > quit calling freshwater fish "sharks" just to try and appeal to newbie > fish > keepers? While they look OK as juveniles, they grow up to be quite > ugly and > lose their "Hi-Fin" as well. > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinus.html > <http://www.csupomona.edu/%7Ejskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinus.html> > OR > http://tinyurl.com/ygzgjuy <http://tinyurl.com/ygzgjuy> > > Be careful about doing water changes that change the temperatures > right now > since, depending on your region, the water should still be pretty cold > right > now. > > I'm not sure what you used for keeping a hole in the frozen over pond but > the DIY floating light bulb fixture is the best thing that I've seen for > keeping a hole in the ice at a low cost without causing circulation of the > water so the thermoclines stay intact for the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Richard Rattie > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:25 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] surprise finding > > A few days ago I was doing some minor winter maintenance on our pond > set up > outside. > > Now this past winter, we had some pretty dang cold weather and it > froze over > MANY TIMES. We ended up setting up a way to keep a hole in the ice. > > My parner and I were sure that we had lost some of the fishes listed below > but SURPRISE. > > This past year we had introduced a few Dojos and a 2 Hifin Banded Sharks. > Well, while doing the maintenace I spotted 2 Dojos and 1 of the Banded > Sharks. > > Richard > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46846	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding

I had to go back and re-read the page since I recognized this author as a responsible writer in the past. The author says, "... Stocking levels for Goldfish (10-30 gallons per fish for juvenile forms) might apply..." does say "for juvenile" which is OK as long as folks know it (or goldfish) get MUCH larger and the article covers that early on (2nd paragraph) and then again in BOLD before the Conclusion section and then reiterates it again in the Conclusion. There are several authors that have articles on CSUPomona.edu and so far, they all seem to be responsible with their articles and usually have plenty of references. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] surprise finding Also I don't like that tank size requirement on that site for EITHER goldfish or this "shark", seems drastically under sized to me. 10-30 gallons perhaps as a baby ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What size pond? Do you have any goldfish or Koi in the pond or just > the below mentioned fish? > > Those Hi-fin Banded *Sharks* grow HUGE, even bigger than Koi... and > they're not really "sharks", I'm sure you know. When will > retailers/wholesalers quit calling freshwater fish "sharks" just to > try and appeal to newbie fish keepers? While they look OK as > juveniles, they grow up to be quite ugly and lose their "Hi-Fin" as > well. > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinus.h > tml > <http://www.csupomona.edu/%7Ejskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinu > s.html> > OR > http://tinyurl.com/ygzgjuy <http://tinyurl.com/ygzgjuy> > > Be careful about doing water changes that change the temperatures > right now since, depending on your region, the water should still be > pretty cold right now. > > I'm not sure what you used for keeping a hole in the frozen over pond > but the DIY floating light bulb fixture is the best thing that I've > seen for keeping a hole in the ice at a low cost without causing > circulation of the water so the thermoclines stay intact for the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Richard Rattie > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:25 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] surprise finding > > A few days ago I was doing some minor winter maintenance on our pond > set up outside. > > Now this past winter, we had some pretty dang cold weather and it > froze over MANY TIMES. We ended up setting up a way to keep a hole in > the ice. > > My parner and I were sure that we had lost some of the fishes listed > below but SURPRISE. > > This past year we had introduced a few Dojos and a 2 Hifin Banded Sharks. > Well, while doing the maintenace I spotted 2 Dojos and 1 of the Banded > Sharks. > > Richard

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46847	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: surprise finding

They both grow to around 3' to 40" but the Hi-Fin Banded *Shark* has a bigger body, as far as I know, although they are both from the Cypriniformes Order so they're like 2nd or 3rd cousins... also known as brothers and sisters if from the South!! Yee-Hawwwww!!! ;-) Unlike Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer... all the other fish in the pond sing this little jeer to the Hi-Fin Banded *Shark*... U - G - L - Y, you ain't got no alibi, You're UGLY, you're UGLY, you're UGLY, UGLY, UGLY. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] surprise finding You're right, they grow up quite ugly ;) Growing to over 3 feet is quite large, but I thought some Koi got bigger than that? Perhaps I'm wrong I have never looked at owning Koi since I don't have a giant outdoor swimming pool (I mean pond, LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What size pond? Do you have any goldfish or Koi in the pond or just > the below mentioned fish? > > Those Hi-fin Banded *Sharks* grow HUGE, even bigger than Koi... and > they're not really "sharks", I'm sure you know. When will > retailers/wholesalers quit calling freshwater fish "sharks" just to > try and appeal to newbie fish keepers? While they look OK as > juveniles, they grow up to be quite ugly and lose their "Hi-Fin" as > well. > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinus.h > tml > <http://www.csupomona.edu/%7Ejskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinu > s.html> > OR > http://tinyurl.com/ygzgjuy <http://tinyurl.com/ygzgjuy> > > Be careful about doing water changes that change the temperatures > right now since, depending on your region, the water should still be > pretty cold right now. > > I'm not sure what you used for keeping a hole in the frozen over pond > but the DIY floating light bulb fixture is the best thing that I've > seen for keeping a hole in the ice at a low cost without causing > circulation of the water so the thermoclines stay intact for the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Richard Rattie > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:25 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] surprise finding > > A few days ago I was doing some minor winter maintenance on our pond > set up outside. > > Now this past winter, we had some pretty dang cold weather and it > froze over MANY TIMES. We ended up setting up a way to keep a hole in > the ice. > > My parner and I were sure that we had lost some of the fishes listed > below but SURPRISE. > > This past year we had introduced a few Dojos and a 2 Hifin Banded Sharks. > Well, while doing the maintenace I spotted 2 Dojos and 1 of the Banded > Sharks. > > Richard

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46848	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 2/17/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

Oh no you're not Lenny - I got the reference right off the bat. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:18:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond I guess I'm the only Beatles fan. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rocky visits my pond I was wondering about Bullwinkle, myself. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> YO Lenny, I'm surprised that you did not ask if Adrian was also visiting her pond < g >. Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46849	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/18/2010
Subject: Re: Rocky visits my pond

Raccoons are very clever and crafty -- and are not fooled by decoy monsters or deterred and driven away easily. Now that they know you have a sushi buffet, they will be most likely become regular visitors. Unfortunately, they are considered pests and will probably be destroyed instead of relocated. Relocation isn't as simple as trapping and transporting. "Humane" animal control agencies have to be sure the critters are healthy enough to be released -- and most just don't have the funding to do that. They have more pressing financial needs. Sorry, I don't have advice to offer. Other have given you helpful hints to try. I doubt many of them will work for long. You'll have a tough time staying a step ahead of those furry banditos. ~Kai Greenvale North Bellmore briefly Huntington/Centerport Long Beach transplanted to the Poconos "lioctopi1116" wrote: > > > Hello Fish Folk. > > I have 20+ koi in my backyard (3500 gal pond) here in a mildly rural > part of Long Island. It's currently netted with aerator for an air > patch. The other night I noticed a HUGE (I mean HUGE! Never saw it > before) racoon wobbling through my yard and toward my pond then > disappear in the darkness. No way was I going out to see where it went. > The next day I went out to find his footprints heading across the pond, > investigating the hole in the ice/snow along the way. Can anyone give me > an idea on how to deter him from coming back, say, in the spring when > the net is off? I'm sure he has a conscious note in his head where to > find fresh fish for dinner now. I managed to deter a young snowy egret > from frequenting with a statue that I move religiously. Now this? I > don't want to use traps because there are cats and a harmless oppossum > around my yard. I really don't think a statue will do much for her > (assuming the size means it's a she), she's probably already taken. > Help! > > }(((>~~* > > .·:*¨~MóNi'~¨*:·. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46850	From: environmom95112	Date: 2/18/2010
Subject: Where to get compact fluorescent sockets?

I have 3 coralife compact fluorescent fixtures - only 1 is in working condition. I tried to take the bulb out but it is stuck - rusted? The tank is covered with glass, so no moisture is affecting this fixture. 1, a double, had the bulbs rusted in. I cannot get them out. The other has no power. Bought 2 new bulbs thinking that was the problem but no, that is not the problem. Actually, this one is NOT a Coralife - it is one that came with a small tank from Tropical Fish International. My questions: 1) is this typical of these fixtures? 2) Where is the best place to purchase waterproof sockets? I found some on the Internet for about $18. a piece. I need at least 2, probably 3 because when this current bulb goes out, I probably will not be able to remove it. I paid a lot of money for these lights, I would like to continue to use them. Hopefully with the waterproof sockets, I will no longer have problems removing bulbs.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46851	From: environmom95112	Date: 2/18/2010
Subject: Update on planted tank

Well, I had asked a bunch of questions when I impulsively bought some plants from my LFS. You guys were great in answering my questions, and I can say that my fish are so happy, the plants have sent out many new leaves, I joined some great online groups that you turned me on to, I even bought some Amano shrimp that are very happy, and I have been spending hours reading about the new ideas in aquarium society! Just wanted to say a huge THANKS to all of you! You are awesome:)))

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46852	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/18/2010
Subject: Re: Update on planted tank

No applause, just money! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of environmom95112 Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Update on planted tank Well, I had asked a bunch of questions when I impulsively bought some plants from my LFS. You guys were great in answering my questions, and I can say that my fish are so happy, the plants have sent out many new leaves, I joined some great online groups that you turned me on to, I even bought some Amano shrimp that are very happy, and I have been spending hours reading about the new ideas in aquarium society! Just wanted to say a huge THANKS to all of you! You are awesome:)))

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46853	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/19/2010
Subject: Re: Where to get compact fluorescent sockets?

I have never owned these... but instead of buying waterproof sockets, there is a grease-type product, called Dielectric Grease (usually silicone) that can be applied to the male pins which would probably keep them from getting stuck. Here's one product available at Ace Hardware and a couple of boating forum threads about the various products to further confirm that this type of product would work in this situation. It's only $5.00 and would last you forever if only used on the pins for these lights but you might find other uses around the house or workshop as well. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3506555&CAWELAID=3238 81576 OR http://tinyurl.com/yg6jtbj http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/008910.html http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/002410.html As far as replacement parts, try... http://ahsupply.com/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of environmom95112 Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Where to get compact fluorescent sockets? I have 3 coralife compact fluorescent fixtures - only 1 is in working condition. I tried to take the bulb out but it is stuck - rusted? The tank is covered with glass, so no moisture is affecting this fixture. 1, a double, had the bulbs rusted in. I cannot get them out. The other has no power. Bought 2 new bulbs thinking that was the problem but no, that is not the problem. Actually, this one is NOT a Coralife - it is one that came with a small tank from Tropical Fish International. My questions: 1) is this typical of these fixtures? 2) Where is the best place to purchase waterproof sockets? I found some on the Internet for about $18. a piece. I need at least 2, probably 3 because when this current bulb goes out, I probably will not be able to remove it. I paid a lot of money for these lights, I would like to continue to use them. Hopefully with the waterproof sockets, I will no longer have problems removing bulbs.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46854	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Rams in 20 long

I am trying to make future plans for my baby rams now, they are almost six weeks and pretty large. If I were to keep the 20 long permanently, would it be possible to keep more than one male/female pair of the rams in that tank? If so, how badly would they fight? And if so, how many could I keep and of what sexes? Thank you... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46855	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long

Lainey,   Assuming you still have the 22 fry? A 55 would be the smallest tank to make this move. As they continue to grow for you, you must now take their ADULT size into consideration.  A 55 well planted, just like a parents tank will do you well.  Bear in mind though, that you will still have to check that "spawning rock" occasionally!   Bill --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 12:09 PM I am trying to make future plans for my baby rams now, they are  almost six weeks and pretty large. If I were to keep the 20 long  permanently, would it be possible to keep more than one male/female  pair of the rams in that tank? If so, how badly would they fight? And  if so, how many could I keep and of what sexes? Thank you... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46856	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long

I won't have a 55, so either they have to go, or I can keep a very small number in the 20 long. My question really is, how many could I keep permanently in the 20 long? Two? Zero? Three? And, what would be the best sex ratio? A larger tank just isn't going to be happening any time soon... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 20, 2010, at 1:16 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Lainey, > > Assuming you still have the 22 fry? > A 55 would be the smallest tank to make this move. > As they continue to grow for you, you must now take their ADULT > size into consideration. A 55 well planted, just like a parents tank > will do you well. Bear in mind though, that you will still have to > check that "spawning rock" occasionally! > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 12:09 PM > > I am trying to make future plans for my baby rams now, they are > almost six weeks and pretty large. If I were to keep the 20 long > permanently, would it be possible to keep more than one male/female > pair of the rams in that tank? If so, how badly would they fight? And > if so, how many could I keep and of what sexes? > > Thank you... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46857	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Re: Rams in 20 long

Lainey,   I can only speak now from my own experience and your remarks of the past. You said before that you did not want to "keep" Rams.  That being the case, and your NOT going to breed either more or again, your choice is simple.    Pick the biggest and best of six males and raise them up in the 20 long.  They may spar a bit but probably not, as you've taken away their reason too------no females!   On the other hand, if you do wish to raise and spawn, then a ratio of 3 or 4 females to each male will work best.  BUT------------- Once they pair, and they will, fights will break out and you will be forced to separate them.  A lone spawning pair of Rams in a 20-long is about all that will coexist together.  If a pair is "out-of-cycle" or has simply stopped spawning, they will exist all together for a time or until they start spawning again. Now you can keep what you have and the way you have it for a time.  Meaning a bare tank with only your floating plants but you will have to watch carefully for fights.  Under your current set up, without up turned flower pots or rocks, picking or staking out a territory will be difficult because there is none.  In a large group of Rams it's easy to pick out your pair, the male and female usually stay together or close by one another.  Incidentally, this is exactly how the fighting starts.  Another male will attempt to get to close to a given female.   Bill --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 1:16 PM > I won't have a 55, so either they > have to go, or I can keep a very  > small number in the 20 long. My question really is, how > many could I  > keep permanently in the 20 long? Two? Zero? Three? And, > what would be  > the best sex ratio? > > A larger tank just isn't going to be happening any time > soon... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 20, 2010, at 1:16 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > Assuming you still have the 22 fry? > > A 55 would be the smallest tank to make this move. > > As they continue to grow for you, you must now take > their ADULT > > size into consideration.  A 55 well planted, just > like a parents tank > > will do you well.  Bear in mind though, that you > will still have to > > check that "spawning rock" occasionally! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rams in 20 long > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 12:09 PM > > > > I am trying to make future plans for my baby rams now, > they are > > almost six weeks and pretty large. If I were to keep > the 20 long > > permanently, would it be possible to keep more than > one male/female > > pair of the rams in that tank? If so, how badly would > they fight? And > > if so, how many could I keep and of what sexes? > > > > Thank you... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying,  > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT  > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original  > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old  > > subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of  > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on  > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest,  > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail  > > option where you will still be able to read messages > on the group  > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46858	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: OT: Aquarium Escape Artist

You've heard of aquarium escape artists. You know, the missing fish that may be found in time, or, worse, days, weeks, months later, or not at all. This one is a bit different. http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_life/2010-02-19/599791050078.html http://tinyurl.com/yjoauwy Escape Artist Takes on Melbourne Aquarium 2010-02-19 11:4055 A year-round attraction for locals and tourists alike, the Melbourne Aquarium boasts a large number of exotic and local species. But today the crowds aren't here to see fish. [Cosentino, Escape Artist/Magician]: "Wish me luck and I'll see you on the other side." They're here to see the Aussie escape artist known as "Cosentino" attempt a dangerous underwater escape. [Jesse Habener, Aspiring Magician]: "We're diehard fans of the guy, and he's brilliant at what he does." Clamped into 60 kilogram concrete boots, chains and five padlocks, he's lowered into the water. Handcuffs on and one last gasp of air, before trying to escape. [Adam Cosentino, Cosentino's Brother]: "He wants to push the boundaries, he loves the adrenalin, he loves the feeling, it's like going sky diving or something like that, he enjoys that ruch." With only one breath, Cosentino is underwater longer than expected. But after a suspenseful three minutes and 39 seconds, he's free. To hold his breath for so long, he says it's important to keep a lowered heart rate and to stay calm. [Cosentino, Magician/Escape Artist]: "The worst thing that you can do as an escape artist is panic, I had to be as calm as possible. I knew it was a possibility that things would get caught, I'd be slowed up, so I had to basically just be calm." Something easier said than done for his mother Rosemary. [Rosemary Cosentino, Cosentino's Mother]: "My heart is still racing so fast, I've got tears in my eyes, I was getting really worried." --------<Continued at link>-------- Watch the video. The article is just a rehash. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46859	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: The Blob Fish

http://themiddleclassguy.blogspot.com/2010/02/blob-fish.html http://tinyurl.com/yj4jnc7 Don't be lazy. Follow the link to read the two paragraphs and see the picture. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46860	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/20/2010
Subject: Re: The Blob Fish

LMAO. I don't know this blogger but I like how he ended his blog... "It looks like Joe Biden". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Blob Fish http://themiddleclassguy.blogspot.com/2010/02/blob-fish.html http://tinyurl.com/yj4jnc7 Don't be lazy. Follow the link to read the two paragraphs and see the picture. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46861	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: The Blob Fish

At first the remark at the end of the story, "It looks like Joe Biden", might cause some to take offense.   But after studying the picture further I must agree.   Around the eyes mostly, I think.  Wouldn't you agree \\Steve//?   Bill --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] The Blob Fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:54 AM > http://themiddleclassguy.blogspot.com/2010/02/blob-fish.html > > http://tinyurl.com/yj4jnc7 > > Don't be lazy. Follow the link to read the two paragraphs > and see the > picture. > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46862	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Soccer Player Buys Big Tank

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on-a -fish-tank http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu FOOTBALLER WHO SPENT £100,000 ON A FISH TANK Tuesday February 16, 2010 By Chris Riches FOOTBALLER Stephen Ireland’s extravagant tastes have often been the subject of jibes from fans. Now he has splashed out £100,000 on Britain’s biggest domestic fish tank. The Manchester City midfielder, 23, is regularly lampooned for his bizarre fashion, including a Range Rover with pink alloy wheels and a garish £264,000 Bentley for his girlfriend. Now the Irish star has had a 6,000-litre aquarium installed during an interior refit of his £5million mansion. It is made from plastic, not glass, so it can withstand a hit from an errant ball flying off the nearby pool table, which has been customised with “Ireland” printed on the baize. It is home to 500 exotic fish including yellow tangs, wrasses and pineapple fish, and also contains half a ton of coral shipped in from Fiji. The custom-built acrylic tank is also fitted with Wi-fi and a high-tech computer system so that the £70,000-a-week footballer and his girlfriend Jessica Lawlor, 24, can control it via their mobiles and the internet. Ireland, who has been fascinated by exotic fish since he was a child, described the tank, the centrepiece of the lobby of his home in Prestbury, Cheshire, as “immaculate”. He said: “It’s a breathtaking tank. When ­people come to the door and see the tank, their first reaction is ‘wow’. “There’s a lot more to it than just glass and water. It’s very complicated with the pumps and water system we have. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve// 100,000 British pounds = 154 650 U.S. dollars 6000 liters = 1,585.03231 US gallons

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46863	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: The Blob Fish

I seldom state political opinions in public. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Blob Fish At first the remark at the end of the story, "It looks like Joe Biden", might cause some to take offense.   But after studying the picture further I must agree.   Around the eyes mostly, I think.  Wouldn't you agree \\Steve//?   Bill --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] The Blob Fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:54 AM > http://themiddleclassguy.blogspot.com/2010/02/blob-fish.html > > http://tinyurl.com/yj4jnc7 > > Don't be lazy. Follow the link to read the two paragraphs > and see the > picture. > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46864	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: The Blob Fish

It didn't offend me... it might offend the fish though. The fish doesn't have bad hair plugs for one! ;-) Oh... and read the longer article that is linked in the short blog article. The longer article has another pic and lots more info... and no comparison to Joe Biden so the fish shouldn't be offended in that article. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Blob Fish At first the remark at the end of the story, "It looks like Joe Biden", might cause some to take offense.   But after studying the picture further I must agree.   Around the eyes mostly, I think.  Wouldn't you agree \\Steve//?   Bill --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] The Blob Fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:54 AM > http://themiddleclassguy.blogspot.com/2010/02/blob-fish.html > > http://tinyurl.com/yj4jnc7 > > Don't be lazy. Follow the link to read the two paragraphs and see the > picture. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46865	From: jimpat101	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Broken top brace.......

I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS to be fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. It's a 72 gal. bow front. I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46866	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/218926 118/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc OR http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun Above link is to your photo. I'm presuming that is the center top brace that connects the top front and back of the frame? If yes, then yes, it should be repaired. It's not a big load bearing part of the tank but without it, the rear of the tank could bow and eventually cause stress cracks in the glass, if it's glass. If it's acrylic, it's less likely to break but could bow even more. To repair, clean the top surfaces of the outside tank frame and the brace. Then take two thin strips of plastic (maybe 1/4" or however wide the lip is on the tank frame) or even L-shaped strips to go from the tank frame to the brace. Have about 1" to 2" of this plastic repair strip on the tank frame and the brace. Use a 2-part epoxy to glue the strip or L-shaped strip down onto the top of the frame and brace. You can use duct tape or other reasonable strong tape (maybe strapping tape) to tape from the front of the tank to the rear of the tank to hold the brace in place before applying the glued strips in place and for the short time it will take for the epoxy to set. Be careful to NOT use too much epoxy so that when you squeeze the pieces together, extra epoxy will not drip into the tank. Maybe floating a styrofoam plate below the area to be repaired will work as a safety *net* for any thing you may drop. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS to be fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. It's a 72 gal. bow front. I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46867	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Soccer Player Buys Big Tank

Why do the fish need Wifi and a fancy stereo system? ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on-a > <http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on-a> > -fish-tank > > http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu <http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu> > > FOOTBALLER WHO SPENT £100,000 ON A FISH TANK > > Tuesday February 16, 2010 > By Chris Riches > > FOOTBALLER Stephen Ireland’s extravagant tastes have often been the > subject > of jibes from fans. > > Now he has splashed out £100,000 on Britain’s biggest domestic fish tank. > > The Manchester City midfielder, 23, is regularly lampooned for his bizarre > fashion, including a Range Rover with pink alloy wheels and a garish > £264,000 Bentley for his girlfriend. > > Now the Irish star has had a 6,000-litre aquarium installed during an > interior refit of his £5million mansion. > > It is made from plastic, not glass, so it can withstand a hit from an > errant > ball flying off the nearby pool table, which has been customised with > “Ireland” printed on the baize. > > It is home to 500 exotic fish including yellow tangs, wrasses and > pineapple > fish, and also contains half a ton of coral shipped in from Fiji. > > The custom-built acrylic tank is also fitted with Wi-fi and a high-tech > computer system so that the £70,000-a-week footballer and his girlfriend > Jessica Lawlor, 24, can control it via their mobiles and the internet. > > Ireland, who has been fascinated by exotic fish since he was a child, > described the tank, the centrepiece of the lobby of his home in Prestbury, > Cheshire, as “immaculate”. He said: “It’s a breathtaking tank. When > ­people > come to the door and see the tank, their first reaction is ‘wow’. > > “There’s a lot more to it than just glass and water. It’s very complicated > with the pumps and water system we have. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > > 100,000 British pounds = 154 650 U.S. dollars > 6000 liters = 1,585.03231 US gallons > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46868	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......

Do they make any tanks with clear center braces? All of mine have brown/black plastic as the center braces, and I don't know about anyone else, but brown/black does not let light through ;) LOL. I've already considered replacing the center brace on my 55 gallon with a clear one, but decided it was too much work in the end ;) On my 125 gallon tank the previous owner already cut out the black center bracing and replaced it with glass (or possibly very thick acrylic but I'm pretty sure it's glass). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/218926 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/218926> > 118/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun> > > Above link is to your photo. > > I'm presuming that is the center top brace that connects the top front and > back of the frame? If yes, then yes, it should be repaired. It's not a big > load bearing part of the tank but without it, the rear of the tank > could bow > and eventually cause stress cracks in the glass, if it's glass. If it's > acrylic, it's less likely to break but could bow even more. > > To repair, clean the top surfaces of the outside tank frame and the brace. > Then take two thin strips of plastic (maybe 1/4" or however wide the > lip is > on the tank frame) or even L-shaped strips to go from the tank frame > to the > brace. Have about 1" to 2" of this plastic repair strip on the tank frame > and the brace. Use a 2-part epoxy to glue the strip or L-shaped strip down > onto the top of the frame and brace. You can use duct tape or other > reasonable strong tape (maybe strapping tape) to tape from the front > of the > tank to the rear of the tank to hold the brace in place before > applying the > glued strips in place and for the short time it will take for the epoxy to > set. Be careful to NOT use too much epoxy so that when you squeeze the > pieces together, extra epoxy will not drip into the tank. Maybe floating a > styrofoam plate below the area to be repaired will work as a safety *net* > for any thing you may drop. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of jimpat101 > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS to be > fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. It's a > 72 gal. bow front. > I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. > > Thanks, > Jim > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46869	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Soccer Player Buys Big Tank

Amber, Amber, You want him to deny them access to the web? The ability to download and listen to Phish? Watching fish, and Phish, videos with the sound that comes with them? Maybe they will actually read some of the literature so they know how they are supposed to act in our tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank Why do the fish need Wifi and a fancy stereo system? ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on-a > <http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on- a> > -fish-tank > > http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu <http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu> > > FOOTBALLER WHO SPENT £100,000 ON A FISH TANK > > Tuesday February 16, 2010 > By Chris Riches > > FOOTBALLER Stephen Ireland’s extravagant tastes have often been the > subject > of jibes from fans. > > Now he has splashed out £100,000 on Britain’s biggest domestic fish tank. > > The Manchester City midfielder, 23, is regularly lampooned for his bizarre > fashion, including a Range Rover with pink alloy wheels and a garish > £264,000 Bentley for his girlfriend. > > Now the Irish star has had a 6,000-litre aquarium installed during an > interior refit of his £5million mansion. > > It is made from plastic, not glass, so it can withstand a hit from an > errant > ball flying off the nearby pool table, which has been customised with > “Ireland” printed on the baize. > > It is home to 500 exotic fish including yellow tangs, wrasses and > pineapple > fish, and also contains half a ton of coral shipped in from Fiji. > > The custom-built acrylic tank is also fitted with Wi-fi and a high-tech > computer system so that the £70,000-a-week footballer and his girlfriend > Jessica Lawlor, 24, can control it via their mobiles and the internet. > > Ireland, who has been fascinated by exotic fish since he was a child, > described the tank, the centrepiece of the lobby of his home in Prestbury, > Cheshire, as “immaculate”. He said: “It’s a breathtaking tank. When > ­people > come to the door and see the tank, their first reaction is ‘wow’. > > “There’s a lot more to it than just glass and water. It’s very complicated > with the pumps and water system we have. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > > 100,000 British pounds = 154 650 U.S. dollars > 6000 liters = 1,585.03231 US gallons > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46870	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Soccer Player Buys Big Tank

And for watching "Finding Nemo" on YouTube. ;-) In case they're reading this, here's the link to Part 1 of 10ish... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lltAkrISrM The YouTuber also has "A Bug's Life" if the fish want a change of scenery. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank Amber, Amber, You want him to deny them access to the web? The ability to download and listen to Phish? Watching fish, and Phish, videos with the sound that comes with them? Maybe they will actually read some of the literature so they know how they are supposed to act in our tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank Why do the fish need Wifi and a fancy stereo system? ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on-a > <http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on- a> > -fish-tank > > http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu <http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu> > > FOOTBALLER WHO SPENT £100,000 ON A FISH TANK > > Tuesday February 16, 2010 > By Chris Riches > > FOOTBALLER Stephen Ireland’s extravagant tastes have often been the > subject of jibes from fans. > > Now he has splashed out £100,000 on Britain’s biggest domestic fish tank. > > The Manchester City midfielder, 23, is regularly lampooned for his > bizarre fashion, including a Range Rover with pink alloy wheels and a > garish £264,000 Bentley for his girlfriend. > > Now the Irish star has had a 6,000-litre aquarium installed during an > interior refit of his £5million mansion. > > It is made from plastic, not glass, so it can withstand a hit from an > errant ball flying off the nearby pool table, which has been > customised with “Ireland” printed on the baize. > > It is home to 500 exotic fish including yellow tangs, wrasses and > pineapple fish, and also contains half a ton of coral shipped in from > Fiji. > > The custom-built acrylic tank is also fitted with Wi-fi and a > high-tech computer system so that the £70,000-a-week footballer and > his girlfriend Jessica Lawlor, 24, can control it via their mobiles and the internet. > > Ireland, who has been fascinated by exotic fish since he was a child, > described the tank, the centrepiece of the lobby of his home in > Prestbury, Cheshire, as “immaculate”. He said: “It’s a breathtaking > tank. When ­people come to the door and see the tank, their first > reaction is ‘wow’. > > “There’s a lot more to it than just glass and water. It’s very > complicated with the pumps and water system we have. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > > 100,000 British pounds = 154 650 U.S. dollars 6000 liters = > 1,585.03231 US gallons

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46871	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......

You could do it with a strip of 1/8" thick plexiglass and the 2-part epoxy. And.. since you'd be surgically removing the black center-brace, using tin snips (not a saw) so you don't have any plastic falling into the tank. You could leave an inch of black on each end, connected to the front and back, so the plexiglass would have more to glue to than just the 1/4" lip. You don't need thick acrylic, just a 1/8" thick strip, maybe an inch or two wide, at the most, of plexiglass/acrylic would do. It's not a major load bearing section... just something to keep the front/back from bowing when the tank is filled with water. I wouldn't use glass. Hopefully the previous owner used plexiglass. Glass could break too easily and send lots of dangerous shards down into the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... Do they make any tanks with clear center braces? All of mine have brown/black plastic as the center braces, and I don't know about anyone else, but brown/black does not let light through ;) LOL. I've already considered replacing the center brace on my 55 gallon with a clear one, but decided it was too much work in the end ;) On my 125 gallon tank the previous owner already cut out the black center bracing and replaced it with glass (or possibly very thick acrylic but I'm pretty sure it's glass). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/218926 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/21892 6> > 118/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun> > > Above link is to your photo. > > I'm presuming that is the center top brace that connects the top front and > back of the frame? If yes, then yes, it should be repaired. It's not a big > load bearing part of the tank but without it, the rear of the tank > could bow > and eventually cause stress cracks in the glass, if it's glass. If it's > acrylic, it's less likely to break but could bow even more. > > To repair, clean the top surfaces of the outside tank frame and the brace. > Then take two thin strips of plastic (maybe 1/4" or however wide the > lip is > on the tank frame) or even L-shaped strips to go from the tank frame > to the > brace. Have about 1" to 2" of this plastic repair strip on the tank frame > and the brace. Use a 2-part epoxy to glue the strip or L-shaped strip down > onto the top of the frame and brace. You can use duct tape or other > reasonable strong tape (maybe strapping tape) to tape from the front > of the > tank to the rear of the tank to hold the brace in place before > applying the > glued strips in place and for the short time it will take for the epoxy to > set. Be careful to NOT use too much epoxy so that when you squeeze the > pieces together, extra epoxy will not drip into the tank. Maybe floating a > styrofoam plate below the area to be repaired will work as a safety *net* > for any thing you may drop. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of jimpat101 > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:32 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS to be > fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. It's a > 72 gal. bow front. > I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. > > Thanks, > Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46872	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......

I'm pretty sure it's glass, but I don't have a hood that rests on the center brace, so besides setting cleaning equipment up there nothing is usually sitting on the brace. But I suppose accidents do happen, I will just remember to be extra careful around the center bracing. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You could do it with a strip of 1/8" thick plexiglass and the 2-part > epoxy. > And.. since you'd be surgically removing the black center-brace, using tin > snips (not a saw) so you don't have any plastic falling into the tank. You > could leave an inch of black on each end, connected to the front and back, > so the plexiglass would have more to glue to than just the 1/4" lip. > > You don't need thick acrylic, just a 1/8" thick strip, maybe an inch > or two > wide, at the most, of plexiglass/acrylic would do. It's not a major load > bearing section... just something to keep the front/back from bowing when > the tank is filled with water. I wouldn't use glass. Hopefully the > previous owner used plexiglass. Glass could break too easily and send lots > of dangerous shards down into the tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > Do they make any tanks with clear center braces? All of mine have > brown/black plastic as the center braces, and I don't know about anyone > else, but brown/black does not let light through ;) LOL. > I've already considered replacing the center brace on my 55 gallon with a > clear one, but decided it was too much work in the end ;) On my 125 gallon > tank the previous owner already cut out the black center bracing and > replaced it with glass (or possibly very thick acrylic but I'm pretty sure > it's glass). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/218926 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/218926> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/21892 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/21892> > 6> > > 118/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun> > <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun>> > > > > Above link is to your photo. > > > > I'm presuming that is the center top brace that connects the top > front and > > back of the frame? If yes, then yes, it should be repaired. It's not > a big > > load bearing part of the tank but without it, the rear of the tank > > could bow > > and eventually cause stress cracks in the glass, if it's glass. If it's > > acrylic, it's less likely to break but could bow even more. > > > > To repair, clean the top surfaces of the outside tank frame and the > brace. > > Then take two thin strips of plastic (maybe 1/4" or however wide the > > lip is > > on the tank frame) or even L-shaped strips to go from the tank frame > > to the > > brace. Have about 1" to 2" of this plastic repair strip on the tank > frame > > and the brace. Use a 2-part epoxy to glue the strip or L-shaped > strip down > > onto the top of the frame and brace. You can use duct tape or other > > reasonable strong tape (maybe strapping tape) to tape from the front > > of the > > tank to the rear of the tank to hold the brace in place before > > applying the > > glued strips in place and for the short time it will take for the > epoxy to > > set. Be careful to NOT use too much epoxy so that when you squeeze the > > pieces together, extra epoxy will not drip into the tank. Maybe > floating a > > styrofoam plate below the area to be repaired will work as a safety > *net* > > for any thing you may drop. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of jimpat101 > > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:32 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > > > I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS to be > > fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. > It's a > > 72 gal. bow front. > > I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. > > > > Thanks, > > Jim > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46873	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......

You should get some of that clear packaging tape and tape both sides of the *glass* just in case it is glass. At least that way, should it ever break, the tape should keep lots (if not all) of pieces of glass out of the tank. I'm wondering if the previous owner had hi-temp Halogen lighting... wasn't it a saltwater tank before?... and the lighting possibly melted the plastic brace so instead of using plexiglass, he use real glass since the plexiglass would have been almost as susceptible to melting... except black plastic would soak up the heat where the clear plexiglass would at least let the light through so it would absorb less heat... but it still might be affected depending on how hot it got. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... I'm pretty sure it's glass, but I don't have a hood that rests on the center brace, so besides setting cleaning equipment up there nothing is usually sitting on the brace. But I suppose accidents do happen, I will just remember to be extra careful around the center bracing. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You could do it with a strip of 1/8" thick plexiglass and the 2-part > epoxy. > And.. since you'd be surgically removing the black center-brace, using > tin snips (not a saw) so you don't have any plastic falling into the > tank. You could leave an inch of black on each end, connected to the > front and back, so the plexiglass would have more to glue to than just the 1/4" lip. > > You don't need thick acrylic, just a 1/8" thick strip, maybe an inch > or two wide, at the most, of plexiglass/acrylic would do. It's not a > major load bearing section... just something to keep the front/back > from bowing when the tank is filled with water. I wouldn't use glass. > Hopefully the previous owner used plexiglass. Glass could break too > easily and send lots of dangerous shards down into the tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > Do they make any tanks with clear center braces? All of mine have > brown/black plastic as the center braces, and I don't know about > anyone else, but brown/black does not let light through ;) LOL. > I've already considered replacing the center brace on my 55 gallon > with a clear one, but decided it was too much work in the end ;) On my > 125 gallon tank the previous owner already cut out the black center > bracing and replaced it with glass (or possibly very thick acrylic but > I'm pretty sure it's glass). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/ > 218926 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > /218926> > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > /21892 > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > /21892> > 6> > > 118/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun> > <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun>> > > > > Above link is to your photo. > > > > I'm presuming that is the center top brace that connects the top > front and > > back of the frame? If yes, then yes, it should be repaired. It's not > a big > > load bearing part of the tank but without it, the rear of the tank > > could bow and eventually cause stress cracks in the glass, if it's > > glass. If it's acrylic, it's less likely to break but could bow even > > more. > > > > To repair, clean the top surfaces of the outside tank frame and the > brace. > > Then take two thin strips of plastic (maybe 1/4" or however wide the > > lip is on the tank frame) or even L-shaped strips to go from the > > tank frame to the brace. Have about 1" to 2" of this plastic repair > > strip on the tank > frame > > and the brace. Use a 2-part epoxy to glue the strip or L-shaped > strip down > > onto the top of the frame and brace. You can use duct tape or other > > reasonable strong tape (maybe strapping tape) to tape from the front > > of the tank to the rear of the tank to hold the brace in place > > before applying the glued strips in place and for the short time it > > will take for the > epoxy to > > set. Be careful to NOT use too much epoxy so that when you squeeze > > the pieces together, extra epoxy will not drip into the tank. Maybe > floating a > > styrofoam plate below the area to be repaired will work as a safety > *net* > > for any thing you may drop. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of jimpat101 > > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:32 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > > > I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS to > > be fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. > It's a > > 72 gal. bow front. > > I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. > > > > Thanks, > > Jim > > -------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46874	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......

They had a metal halide light in it before they switched to the CFL lighting, so it's possible that it melted the black brace and that's why they replaced it. Or perhaps it was just blocking too much light. Yes it was a saltwater tank before. I will find some clear packaging tape to use, thanks for the tip. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You should get some of that clear packaging tape and tape both sides > of the > *glass* just in case it is glass. At least that way, should it ever break, > the tape should keep lots (if not all) of pieces of glass out of the tank. > I'm wondering if the previous owner had hi-temp Halogen lighting... wasn't > it a saltwater tank before?... and the lighting possibly melted the > plastic > brace so instead of using plexiglass, he use real glass since the > plexiglass > would have been almost as susceptible to melting... except black plastic > would soak up the heat where the clear plexiglass would at least let the > light through so it would absorb less heat... but it still might be > affected > depending on how hot it got. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > I'm pretty sure it's glass, but I don't have a hood that rests on the > center > brace, so besides setting cleaning equipment up there nothing is usually > sitting on the brace. But I suppose accidents do happen, I will just > remember to be extra careful around the center bracing. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You could do it with a strip of 1/8" thick plexiglass and the 2-part > > epoxy. > > And.. since you'd be surgically removing the black center-brace, using > > tin snips (not a saw) so you don't have any plastic falling into the > > tank. You could leave an inch of black on each end, connected to the > > front and back, so the plexiglass would have more to glue to than > just the > 1/4" lip. > > > > You don't need thick acrylic, just a 1/8" thick strip, maybe an inch > > or two wide, at the most, of plexiglass/acrylic would do. It's not a > > major load bearing section... just something to keep the front/back > > from bowing when the tank is filled with water. I wouldn't use glass. > > Hopefully the previous owner used plexiglass. Glass could break too > > easily and send lots of dangerous shards down into the tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > > > Do they make any tanks with clear center braces? All of mine have > > brown/black plastic as the center braces, and I don't know about > > anyone else, but brown/black does not let light through ;) LOL. > > I've already considered replacing the center brace on my 55 gallon > > with a clear one, but decided it was too much work in the end ;) On my > > 125 gallon tank the previous owner already cut out the black center > > bracing and replaced it with glass (or possibly very thick acrylic but > > I'm pretty sure it's glass). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/> > > 218926 > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic> > > /218926> > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic> > > /21892 > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic> > > /21892> > > 6> > > > 118/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > > > > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun> > <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun> > <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun>>> > > > > > > Above link is to your photo. > > > > > > I'm presuming that is the center top brace that connects the top > > front and > > > back of the frame? If yes, then yes, it should be repaired. It's not > > a big > > > load bearing part of the tank but without it, the rear of the tank > > > could bow and eventually cause stress cracks in the glass, if it's > > > glass. If it's acrylic, it's less likely to break but could bow even > > > more. > > > > > > To repair, clean the top surfaces of the outside tank frame and the > > brace. > > > Then take two thin strips of plastic (maybe 1/4" or however wide the > > > lip is on the tank frame) or even L-shaped strips to go from the > > > tank frame to the brace. Have about 1" to 2" of this plastic repair > > > strip on the tank > > frame > > > and the brace. Use a 2-part epoxy to glue the strip or L-shaped > > strip down > > > onto the top of the frame and brace. You can use duct tape or other > > > reasonable strong tape (maybe strapping tape) to tape from the front > > > of the tank to the rear of the tank to hold the brace in place > > > before applying the glued strips in place and for the short time it > > > will take for the > > epoxy to > > > set. Be careful to NOT use too much epoxy so that when you squeeze > > > the pieces together, extra epoxy will not drip into the tank. Maybe > > floating a > > > styrofoam plate below the area to be repaired will work as a safety > > *net* > > > for any thing you may drop. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > > SAINTS? > > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of jimpat101 > > > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:32 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > > > > > I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS to > > > be fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. > > It's a > > > 72 gal. bow front. > > > I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Jim > > > > > > ------- > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46875	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank

It's his money. Maybe he's the one who cares about the sound. Personally, it makes no sense whatever to me to spend more than $50 on a sound system. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank And for watching "Finding Nemo" on YouTube. ;-) In case they're reading this, here's the link to Part 1 of 10ish... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lltAkrISrM The YouTuber also has "A Bug's Life" if the fish want a change of scenery. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank Amber, Amber, You want him to deny them access to the web? The ability to download and listen to Phish? Watching fish, and Phish, videos with the sound that comes with them? Maybe they will actually read some of the literature so they know how they are supposed to act in our tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank Why do the fish need Wifi and a fancy stereo system? ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on-a > <http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on- a> > -fish-tank > > http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu <http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu> > > FOOTBALLER WHO SPENT £100,000 ON A FISH TANK > > Tuesday February 16, 2010 > By Chris Riches > > FOOTBALLER Stephen Ireland's extravagant tastes have often been the > subject of jibes from fans. > > Now he has splashed out £100,000 on Britain's biggest domestic fish tank. > > The Manchester City midfielder, 23, is regularly lampooned for his > bizarre fashion, including a Range Rover with pink alloy wheels and a > garish £264,000 Bentley for his girlfriend. > > Now the Irish star has had a 6,000-litre aquarium installed during an > interior refit of his £5million mansion. > > It is made from plastic, not glass, so it can withstand a hit from an > errant ball flying off the nearby pool table, which has been > customised with "Ireland" printed on the baize. > > It is home to 500 exotic fish including yellow tangs, wrasses and > pineapple fish, and also contains half a ton of coral shipped in from > Fiji. > > The custom-built acrylic tank is also fitted with Wi-fi and a > high-tech computer system so that the £70,000-a-week footballer and > his girlfriend Jessica Lawlor, 24, can control it via their mobiles and the internet. > > Ireland, who has been fascinated by exotic fish since he was a child, > described the tank, the centrepiece of the lobby of his home in > Prestbury, Cheshire, as "immaculate". He said: "It's a breathtaking > tank. When ­people come to the door and see the tank, their first > reaction is 'wow'. > > "There's a lot more to it than just glass and water. It's very > complicated with the pumps and water system we have. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > > 100,000 British pounds = 154 650 U.S. dollars 6000 liters = > 1,585.03231 US gallons ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46876	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......

Lenny, Yes, the tank is glass...I do like your idea, tomorrow I'll go to Home Depot and get some plastic and cut them into "L" brackets to bond the back to the brace using 2 part epoxy to bring it all together. I'll be doing a 20% change and when the water's out I'll duct tape the tank from front to back to "pull" it all together. It should work. The break wasn't caused by the light (heat), we were sitting there one night and it just "popped".... Thanks for the idea and I'll post my results... Jim In a message dated 2/21/2010 9:57:53 A.M. Central America Standard T, GoldLenny@... writes: _http://groups.http://grohttp://groups.<Whttp://grhttp://groups.<Whttp://gro u_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/218926) 118/view?picmode=&mode=tn&<WBR>order=or&<WBR>st&count=co&dir=asc OR _http://tinyurl.http://tiny_ (http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun) Above link is to your photo. I'm presuming that is the center top brace that connects the top front and back of the frame? If yes, then yes, it should be repaired. It's not a big load bearing part of the tank but without it, the rear of the tank could bow and eventually cause stress cracks in the glass, if it's glass. If it's acrylic, it's less likely to break but could bow even more. To repair, clean the top surfaces of the outside tank frame and the brace. Then take two thin strips of plastic (maybe 1/4" or however wide the lip is on the tank frame) or even L-shaped strips to go from the tank frame to the brace. Have about 1" to 2" of this plastic repair strip on the tank frame and the brace. Use a 2-part epoxy to glue the strip or L-shaped strip down onto the top of the frame and brace. You can use duct tape or other reasonable strong tape (maybe strapping tape) to tape from the front of the tank to the rear of the tank to hold the brace in place before applying the glued strips in place and for the short time it will take for the epoxy to set. Be careful to NOT use too much epoxy so that when you squeeze the pieces together, extra epoxy will not drip into the tank. Maybe floating a styrofoam plate below the area to be repaired will work as a safety *net* for any thing you may drop. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS to be fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. It's a 72 gal. bow front. I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46877	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......

For others reading this thread, if they ever have a tank where they will be putting hi-temp lighting (Halogen, Metal Halide, etc.) over the tank, wrap the center brace in aluminum foil (maybe even a couple of layers) which should work to insulate the plastic by reflecting most of the heat away from the plastic. Possibly, just painting it white with a high temp white paint might work also since the white would reflect most of the heat causing light... but foil would probably be the best thing to use on the black plastic and this could be added even after the tank is filled up with water and fish. There could be some long term oxidation of the aluminum foil so this should be checked from time to time but if folks are using a basic dechlor product that treats heavy metals as well, the chelating compound should bind with any aluminum molecules that might drip off into the water from any condensation on the underside of the foil. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... They had a metal halide light in it before they switched to the CFL lighting, so it's possible that it melted the black brace and that's why they replaced it. Or perhaps it was just blocking too much light. Yes it was a saltwater tank before. I will find some clear packaging tape to use, thanks for the tip. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You should get some of that clear packaging tape and tape both sides > of the > *glass* just in case it is glass. At least that way, should it ever > break, the tape should keep lots (if not all) of pieces of glass out of the tank. > I'm wondering if the previous owner had hi-temp Halogen lighting... > wasn't it a saltwater tank before?... and the lighting possibly melted > the plastic brace so instead of using plexiglass, he use real glass > since the plexiglass would have been almost as susceptible to > melting... except black plastic would soak up the heat where the clear > plexiglass would at least let the light through so it would absorb > less heat... but it still might be affected depending on how hot it > got. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > I'm pretty sure it's glass, but I don't have a hood that rests on the > center brace, so besides setting cleaning equipment up there nothing > is usually sitting on the brace. But I suppose accidents do happen, I > will just remember to be extra careful around the center bracing. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You could do it with a strip of 1/8" thick plexiglass and the 2-part > > epoxy. > > And.. since you'd be surgically removing the black center-brace, > > using tin snips (not a saw) so you don't have any plastic falling > > into the tank. You could leave an inch of black on each end, > > connected to the front and back, so the plexiglass would have more > > to glue to than > just the > 1/4" lip. > > > > You don't need thick acrylic, just a 1/8" thick strip, maybe an inch > > or two wide, at the most, of plexiglass/acrylic would do. It's not a > > major load bearing section... just something to keep the front/back > > from bowing when the tank is filled with water. I wouldn't use glass. > > Hopefully the previous owner used plexiglass. Glass could break too > > easily and send lots of dangerous shards down into the tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > > > Do they make any tanks with clear center braces? All of mine have > > brown/black plastic as the center braces, and I don't know about > > anyone else, but brown/black does not let light through ;) LOL. > > I've already considered replacing the center brace on my 55 gallon > > with a clear one, but decided it was too much work in the end ;) On > > my > > 125 gallon tank the previous owner already cut out the black center > > bracing and replaced it with glass (or possibly very thick acrylic > > but I'm pretty sure it's glass). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > /> > > 218926 > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > > > > /218926> > > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > > > > /21892 > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic > > > > /21892> > > 6> > > > 118/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > > > > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun> > <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun> > <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun <http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun>>> > > > > > > Above link is to your photo. > > > > > > I'm presuming that is the center top brace that connects the top > > front and > > > back of the frame? If yes, then yes, it should be repaired. It's > > > not > > a big > > > load bearing part of the tank but without it, the rear of the tank > > > could bow and eventually cause stress cracks in the glass, if it's > > > glass. If it's acrylic, it's less likely to break but could bow > > > even more. > > > > > > To repair, clean the top surfaces of the outside tank frame and > > > the > > brace. > > > Then take two thin strips of plastic (maybe 1/4" or however wide > > > the lip is on the tank frame) or even L-shaped strips to go from > > > the tank frame to the brace. Have about 1" to 2" of this plastic > > > repair strip on the tank > > frame > > > and the brace. Use a 2-part epoxy to glue the strip or L-shaped > > strip down > > > onto the top of the frame and brace. You can use duct tape or > > > other reasonable strong tape (maybe strapping tape) to tape from > > > the front of the tank to the rear of the tank to hold the brace in > > > place before applying the glued strips in place and for the short > > > time it will take for the > > epoxy to > > > set. Be careful to NOT use too much epoxy so that when you squeeze > > > the pieces together, extra epoxy will not drip into the tank. > > > Maybe > > floating a > > > styrofoam plate below the area to be repaired will work as a > > > safety > > *net* > > > for any thing you may drop. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > > SAINTS? > > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of jimpat101 > > > Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:32 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... > > > > > > I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS > > > to be fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. > > It's a > > > 72 gal. bow front. > > > I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46878	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank

If that is the case, you are cheating yourself from a pleasant aural time while you are listening to something. We have already been cheated by the music industry with the frequency limits placed on digital music. They claim that one cannot hear the frequencies outside of the range they have chosen, but the physical aspect of hearing is not only with the ears, but in feeling the vibrations outside the audible range. One CAN hear the difference between a quality vinyl pressing and a CD. The sound system that came with my car probably has a value approaching $1000, if it was an after-market system. Up to a certain point, the old saw, "You get what you pay for" holds true when it comes to audio. There is a certain point where you reach diminishing returns. Would I pay $5000 for a system? Yes, I would. Would I pay $10,000? Well, I certainly would need to think hard about that, so I could only say maybe yes, maybe no. The same applies to your aquarium equipment. Up to a certain point, the more you pay the better equipment you will have, with fewer failures and replacements to be made. The Eugene Danner, Inc. company had a very good reputation for excellent equipment. Generally, the only pieces that ever retired were due to a parts availability problem. After the Danners were no longer involved in the company and it had been sold, parts for some equipment became unavailable or very hard to find. Much of the equipment we see in the market today is no longer made domestically as companies have gone overseas for less expensive labor and parts costs, to bolster their profit margins. Speaking of Supreme's products, I certainly hope that my 2 piston DynaMaster will still work and I can get gaskets for it when I next have enough tanks to use it with. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 5:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank It's his money. Maybe he's the one who cares about the sound. Personally, it makes no sense whatever to me to spend more than $50 on a sound system. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank And for watching "Finding Nemo" on YouTube. ;-) In case they're reading this, here's the link to Part 1 of 10ish... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lltAkrISrM The YouTuber also has "A Bug's Life" if the fish want a change of scenery. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank Amber, Amber, You want him to deny them access to the web? The ability to download and listen to Phish? Watching fish, and Phish, videos with the sound that comes with them? Maybe they will actually read some of the literature so they know how they are supposed to act in our tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank Why do the fish need Wifi and a fancy stereo system? ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on-a > <http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on- a> > -fish-tank > > http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu <http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu> > > FOOTBALLER WHO SPENT £100,000 ON A FISH TANK > > Tuesday February 16, 2010 > By Chris Riches > > FOOTBALLER Stephen Ireland's extravagant tastes have often been the > subject of jibes from fans. > > Now he has splashed out £100,000 on Britain's biggest domestic fish tank. > > The Manchester City midfielder, 23, is regularly lampooned for his > bizarre fashion, including a Range Rover with pink alloy wheels and a > garish £264,000 Bentley for his girlfriend. > > Now the Irish star has had a 6,000-litre aquarium installed during an > interior refit of his £5million mansion. > > It is made from plastic, not glass, so it can withstand a hit from an > errant ball flying off the nearby pool table, which has been > customised with "Ireland" printed on the baize. > > It is home to 500 exotic fish including yellow tangs, wrasses and > pineapple fish, and also contains half a ton of coral shipped in from > Fiji. > > The custom-built acrylic tank is also fitted with Wi-fi and a > high-tech computer system so that the £70,000-a-week footballer and > his girlfriend Jessica Lawlor, 24, can control it via their mobiles and the internet. > > Ireland, who has been fascinated by exotic fish since he was a child, > described the tank, the centrepiece of the lobby of his home in > Prestbury, Cheshire, as "immaculate". He said: "It's a breathtaking > tank. When ­people come to the door and see the tank, their first > reaction is 'wow'. > > "There's a lot more to it than just glass and water. It's very > complicated with the pumps and water system we have. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > > 100,000 British pounds = 154 650 U.S. dollars 6000 liters = > 1,585.03231 US gallons

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46879	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank

I do believe I'll live with it, Steve. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank If that is the case, you are cheating yourself from a pleasant aural time while you are listening to something. We have already been cheated by the music industry with the frequency limits placed on digital music. They claim that one cannot hear the frequencies outside of the range they have chosen, but the physical aspect of hearing is not only with the ears, but in feeling the vibrations outside the audible range. One CAN hear the difference between a quality vinyl pressing and a CD. The sound system that came with my car probably has a value approaching $1000, if it was an after-market system. Up to a certain point, the old saw, "You get what you pay for" holds true when it comes to audio. There is a certain point where you reach diminishing returns. Would I pay $5000 for a system? Yes, I would. Would I pay $10,000? Well, I certainly would need to think hard about that, so I could only say maybe yes, maybe no. The same applies to your aquarium equipment. Up to a certain point, the more you pay the better equipment you will have, with fewer failures and replacements to be made. The Eugene Danner, Inc. company had a very good reputation for excellent equipment. Generally, the only pieces that ever retired were due to a parts availability problem. After the Danners were no longer involved in the company and it had been sold, parts for some equipment became unavailable or very hard to find. Much of the equipment we see in the market today is no longer made domestically as companies have gone overseas for less expensive labor and parts costs, to bolster their profit margins. Speaking of Supreme's products, I certainly hope that my 2 piston DynaMaster will still work and I can get gaskets for it when I next have enough tanks to use it with. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 5:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank It's his money. Maybe he's the one who cares about the sound. Personally, it makes no sense whatever to me to spend more than $50 on a sound system. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank And for watching "Finding Nemo" on YouTube. ;-) In case they're reading this, here's the link to Part 1 of 10ish... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lltAkrISrM The YouTuber also has "A Bug's Life" if the fish want a change of scenery. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank Amber, Amber, You want him to deny them access to the web? The ability to download and listen to Phish? Watching fish, and Phish, videos with the sound that comes with them? Maybe they will actually read some of the literature so they know how they are supposed to act in our tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Soccer Player Buys Big Tank Why do the fish need Wifi and a fancy stereo system? ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on-a > <http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158367/Footballer-who-spent-100-000-on- a> > -fish-tank > > http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu <http://tinyurl.com/y9763tu> > > FOOTBALLER WHO SPENT £100,000 ON A FISH TANK > > Tuesday February 16, 2010 > By Chris Riches > > FOOTBALLER Stephen Ireland's extravagant tastes have often been the > subject of jibes from fans. > > Now he has splashed out £100,000 on Britain's biggest domestic fish tank. > > The Manchester City midfielder, 23, is regularly lampooned for his > bizarre fashion, including a Range Rover with pink alloy wheels and a > garish £264,000 Bentley for his girlfriend. > > Now the Irish star has had a 6,000-litre aquarium installed during an > interior refit of his £5million mansion. > > It is made from plastic, not glass, so it can withstand a hit from an > errant ball flying off the nearby pool table, which has been > customised with "Ireland" printed on the baize. > > It is home to 500 exotic fish including yellow tangs, wrasses and > pineapple fish, and also contains half a ton of coral shipped in from > Fiji. > > The custom-built acrylic tank is also fitted with Wi-fi and a > high-tech computer system so that the £70,000-a-week footballer and > his girlfriend Jessica Lawlor, 24, can control it via their mobiles and the internet. > > Ireland, who has been fascinated by exotic fish since he was a child, > described the tank, the centrepiece of the lobby of his home in > Prestbury, Cheshire, as "immaculate". He said: "It's a breathtaking > tank. When ­people come to the door and see the tank, their first > reaction is 'wow'. > > "There's a lot more to it than just glass and water. It's very > complicated with the pumps and water system we have. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > > 100,000 British pounds = 154 650 U.S. dollars 6000 liters = > 1,585.03231 US gallons ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46880	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace.......

Wow... I've seen lots of posts over the years about the broken/melted/missing center braces but I've never seen one just break for no reason. While you're at it, you might as well reinforce the same area on the other end of the brace. It could be a lot defect during the molding process for the plastic tank framing. Better to be safe than sorry since you'll have all the materials out and ready. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Jpateson@... [mailto:Jpateson@...] Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... Lenny, Yes, the tank is glass...I do like your idea, tomorrow I'll go to Home Depot and get some plastic and cut them into "L" brackets to bond the back to the brace using 2 part epoxy to bring it all together. I'll be doing a 20% change and when the water's out I'll duct tape the tank from front to back to "pull" it all together. It should work. The break wasn't caused by the light (heat), we were sitting there one night and it just "popped".... Thanks for the idea and I'll post my results... Jim In a message dated 2/21/2010 9:57:53 A.M. Central America Standard T, GoldLenny@... writes: _http://groups.http://grohttp://groups.<Whttp://grhttp://groups.<Whttp://gro u_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/21892 6) 118/view?picmode=&mode=tn&<WBR>order=or&<WBR>st&count=co&dir=asc OR _http://tinyurl.http://tiny_ (http://tinyurl.com/ylmlvun) Above link is to your photo. I'm presuming that is the center top brace that connects the top front and back of the frame? If yes, then yes, it should be repaired. It's not a big load bearing part of the tank but without it, the rear of the tank could bow and eventually cause stress cracks in the glass, if it's glass. If it's acrylic, it's less likely to break but could bow even more. To repair, clean the top surfaces of the outside tank frame and the brace. Then take two thin strips of plastic (maybe 1/4" or however wide the lip is on the tank frame) or even L-shaped strips to go from the tank frame to the brace. Have about 1" to 2" of this plastic repair strip on the tank frame and the brace. Use a 2-part epoxy to glue the strip or L-shaped strip down onto the top of the frame and brace. You can use duct tape or other reasonable strong tape (maybe strapping tape) to tape from the front of the tank to the rear of the tank to hold the brace in place before applying the glued strips in place and for the short time it will take for the epoxy to set. Be careful to NOT use too much epoxy so that when you squeeze the pieces together, extra epoxy will not drip into the tank. Maybe floating a styrofoam plate below the area to be repaired will work as a safety *net* for any thing you may drop. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:32 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace....... I'm starting to worry about this. The guy at the LFS said it HAS to be fixed or the tank will leak, it that true? I have posted a picture. It's a 72 gal. bow front. I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts about this or how to fix it.. Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46881	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/21/2010
Subject: Aquarium Staff Feed Piranha with Chain Mail

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cornwall/8527071.stm http://tinyurl.com/yj6m3nb Page last updated at 15:06 GMT, Sunday, 21 February 2010 Aquarium staff use chain mail gloves to feed piranha Piranha fish in Newquay's Blue Reef Aquairum [sic] Gloves are used to feed the fish to make staff feel "more secure" Staff at an aquarium in Cornwall are using a chain mail glove to feed their latest residents. The shoal of red-bellied piranha fish are settling in at Newquay's Blue Reef Aquarium after being made homeless from another aquarium. As well as the metal gauntlet, staff are using long-handled pincers to feed the fish. The aquarium said the glove and pincers made staff feel "feel that little bit more secure" during feeding time. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46882	From: Jerry14	Date: 2/22/2010
Subject: Broken top brace

I have followed the thread but don't know about using 2 part epoxy where it will contact water. Is there a special type of epoxy? Jerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/22/2010
Subject: Re: Broken top brace

They use clear epoxy to actually seal the seams of acrylic tanks during the building process. It's also used often in DIY aquarium projects for everything from decorations on up. Here's a snip from one of Chuck's DIY projects (a Paludarium)... http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/46g_construct.htm (2nd material listed) 2 Part Epoxy : I used a product labeled "Everfix Epoxy Resin", sold in a package of two 1 pint cans. The label reads "Multi-Purpose resin for fiberglassing, molding, laminating and repairing". I purchased it at my local Home Depot. Others have had good success using... (END SNIP) I haven't checked out every brand out there but most two-part epoxies should dry to a solid and water-tight seal within five minutes or so. Yes, you can't use it underwater or where it will come into contact with the fish while it's curing/hardening but once it's cured, it should be fine. They even sell two-part epoxy paints and sealers for concrete ponds. Don't ask me who "they" are but "they" are every where and "they" know every thing! ;-) I've used this type... http://www.devcon.com/products/products.cfm?familyID=175 for small jobs like decorations. The two-parts come in a dual-syringe tool for squirting out equal but small amounts of the two parts which are then mixed and used quickly. Most hardware and big-box stores will sell this brand as well as other brands. The MSDS sheets are available on the page as PDF documents. I guess, if someone wants to err on the side of caution, look for something on the packaging that says it is safe for "potable water" which is the common term used for products that are safe for coming into contact with water and food items for human consumption but most of these small packages will not have all of these safety designations.... but look for "NSF 61" designation, based on the next section. Here's a snip from a DIY project on GARF.org, which is a saltwater reef related website... http://www.garf.org/140.gallon.html#MATERIAL This is absolutely the most important part of any plywood fish tank made, and the least researched by the vast majority of aquarium DIY people. A tank coating that doesn't poison fish. The only sealer/coating that is qualified for use in an aquarium is a TWO PART EPOXY FOR POTABLE WATER TANKS. This coating is used to seal the interior of several thousand gallon community drinking water tanks, as a coating for holding tanks in fish farms and as a liner for large public aquariums. These coatings are NSF 61/USDA/ANSI/AWWA and FDA certified and approved. Further, epoxy coatings are highly resistant to salts and corrosion and are recommended for marine use. Some brand name coatings that can be used are: ----- carbolene brand "891" epoxy with color choices one of which is "4753"grey ----- ----- dupont brand "epoxide hs tank lining"------- ----- sherwin williams brand "tank clad hs epoxy"----- ----- rustoleum brand "9200" system epoxy with color choices one of which is "9271" dunes tan------- These epoxies contain no solvents or volatile organic compounds and are usually composed of 100% solids. Additionally, solvents and thinners are not recommended for use with this epoxy because they would defeat the purpose of using a non-toxic coating. There are other manufacturers of epoxy and many of them have nsf 61 approved epoxy for potable water. Further, if one finds an epoxy that is not recommended for use with potable water, not nsf 61 certified, I suggest against using it. (END SNIP) In conclusion, since this repair will not actually be under water, ever, unless the tank is overflowing (:-\), I think any 2-part epoxy would work and as I stated earlier, I've used the small dual-syringe products and didn't look for any "potable water" designation on them and I'm looking at the decoration in my goldfish tank right now and my fish have been living with that decoration for over five years so far. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry14 Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Broken top brace I have followed the thread but don't know about using 2 part epoxy where it will contact water. Is there a special type of epoxy? Jerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46884	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/23/2010
Subject: Florida Aquarium Went Down to the Keys to Access Cold Snap Coral Dam

http://www.zandavisitor.com/newsarticle-3046-Florida_Aquarium_Went_Down_to_t he_Keys_to_Access_Cold_Snap_Coral_Damage http://tinyurl.com/ya7urmk Florida Aquarium Went Down to the Keys to Access Cold Snap Coral Damage Mon, 2/22/2010 - 2:15 PM By Tom Wagner Tampa, FL - Florida is the home to the most extensive shallow coral reef formations in North America. From the Florida Keys to the Dry Tortugas, these coral reefs have been under increasingly destructive influences over the years to dredging, ship groundings and illegal collecting. As if that wasn't enough of an uphill battle, the recent cold snap in January may have killed everything in waters less than 10 feet deep. Surveys continue to be done by trained scuba divers to assess the damage, but difficult conditions and visibility make the gathering of data difficult at best. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46885	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: The Ultimate Nano Aquarium

http://www.rdmag.com/News/Feeds/2010/02/materials-nano-aquarium-opens-up-a-n ew-realm-of-research-int/ http://tinyurl.com/ye3o4dq Nano-aquarium opens up a new realm of research into microorganisms Posted In: Materials By ResearchSEA Tuesday, February 23, 2010 A microchip fabricated with femtosecond lasers at RIKEN allows the rare observation of microalgae behavior Microalgae are photosynthetic organisms that appeared on Earth more than three billion years ago. Diatoms, Euglena and other members of this family typically inhabit in the sea or fresh water, and possess a very simple, unicellular form. Some of them are even able to move using tiny appendages known as flagella. Perhaps the easiest and simplest example for use in scientific experiments for school children, algae are also in high demand for next-generation industrial research and development as a raw material for the production of biofuel. At RIKEN, researchers are unraveling a variety of hidden functions of single-cell, flagellated algae that swim in fresh water using a newly developed 'nano-aquarium'. Far from an ordinary fish tank for ornamental purposes, the nano-aquarium is actually a tiny microchip; a glass plate just five square millimeters in size embedded with flow channels and micro-devices. The algae, which normally swim around at lightning speed, move within the tightly controlled channels, and sometimes are given physical stimuli using a movable micro-needle in order to observe their response. Such nano-manipulation techniques provide great assistance for analyzing the detailed mechanisms of algae using RIKEN's cutting-edge optical microscopes, opening up a new realm of biological and evolutional research on these ancient microorganisms. --------<Continued at link>-------- No need to worry about MTS with these babies. You could have thousands of them. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46886	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Social Snails?

I had a snail in each of my two Betta tanks and Mom's too. The ones in my two side by side tanks would climb on the glass and face each other as close as they could. One of those two died yesterday. I have nothing more than gut feeling to go by -- but I think it was of LONELINESS. I think he needed and wanted the physical touch and companionship of another snail. The long distance relationship just didn't cut it. I had wanted to get each of them companions last week but the selection at the pet store was unhealthy and sad. I took my remaining snail and added it to Mom's Betta tank. I hope the two snails will be happy together. They found each other nearly immediately and had a good time checking each other out. So Amber, what do you think about my theory that snails are social creatures and don't like to be alone in a tank? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46887	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Alien Species Found in Africa!

http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2010/february/aliens_impact.htm http://tinyurl.com/y8td2wo Impact of nature's invading aliens measured for first time A large grove of eucalypts on the Kariega river dwarfs this vehicle Invasive Alien Species, ranging from disease and plants, to rats and goats, are one of the top three threats to life on this planet, according to a new publication coordinated by the Global Invasive Species Programme (GISP), of which IUCN is a partner. Most countries have made international commitments to tackle this threat, but only half have introduced relevant legislation and even fewer are taking adequate action on the ground. The publication, "Global indicators of biological invasion: species numbers, biodiversity impact and policy responses", looked at 57 countries and found that, on average, there are 50 non-indigenous species per country which have a negative impact on biodiversity. The number of invasive alien species ranged from nine in Equatorial Guinea to 222 in New Zealand. A total of 542 species were documented as invasive aliens, including 316 plants, 101 marine organisms, 44 freshwater fish, 43 mammal, 23 bird and 15 amphibian species. According to Prof. Melodie McGeoch, lead author on the publication and member of the Centre for Invasion Biology, these numbers are a significant underestimate. "We showed that regions with low development status and little investment in research have lower than expected numbers of invasive aliens". An increase in the number and spread of alien species, which adversely affect the habitats they invade, is nonetheless attributed to a substantial rise in international trade over the past 25 years. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Alien Species Found in Africa!

While I appreciate the want to keep non-indigenous species from spreading (although I do not think it's possible to stop the spread due to modern human global transportation), I'm not sure I agree with the statement in the third paragraph, "Invasive Alien Species ... are one of the top three threats to life on this planet ...". That's a little over the top, IMO... and the kind of alarmist statements associated with the global cooling... oops.. I meant global warming... oops... I meant climate change folk's threats of gloom and doom for the past 40 years... which we now know is all based on falsified data... or would that accurately be called science-fiction? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Alien Species Found in Africa! http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2010/february/aliens_impact.htm http://tinyurl.com/y8td2wo Impact of nature's invading aliens measured for first time A large grove of eucalypts on the Kariega river dwarfs this vehicle Invasive Alien Species, ranging from disease and plants, to rats and goats, are one of the top three threats to life on this planet, according to a new publication coordinated by the Global Invasive Species Programme (GISP), of which IUCN is a partner. Most countries have made international commitments to tackle this threat, but only half have introduced relevant legislation and even fewer are taking adequate action on the ground. The publication, "Global indicators of biological invasion: species numbers, biodiversity impact and policy responses", looked at 57 countries and found that, on average, there are 50 non-indigenous species per country which have a negative impact on biodiversity. The number of invasive alien species ranged from nine in Equatorial Guinea to 222 in New Zealand. A total of 542 species were documented as invasive aliens, including 316 plants, 101 marine organisms, 44 freshwater fish, 43 mammal, 23 bird and 15 amphibian species. According to Prof. Melodie McGeoch, lead author on the publication and member of the Centre for Invasion Biology, these numbers are a significant underestimate. "We showed that regions with low development status and little investment in research have lower than expected numbers of invasive aliens". An increase in the number and spread of alien species, which adversely affect the habitats they invade, is nonetheless attributed to a substantial rise in international trade over the past 25 years. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46889	From: harry perry	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Alien Species Found in Africa!/Lenny

So then you don't believe the world will end on Dec. 21, 2012?. It's no big deal. The world has ended many times in my life time and it didn't even hurt. And with only 4 shopping days left till Christmas Walmart will never allow it to happen. Harry --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Alien Species Found in Africa! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:04 PM   While I appreciate the want to keep non-indigenous species from spreading (although I do not think it's possible to stop the spread due to modern human global transportation) , I'm not sure I agree with the statement in the third paragraph, "Invasive Alien Species ... are one of the top three threats to life on this planet ...". That's a little over the top, IMO... and the kind of alarmist statements associated with the global cooling... oops.. I meant global warming... oops... I meant climate change folk's threats of gloom and doom for the past 40 years... which we now know is all based on falsified data... or would that accurately be called science-fiction? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Alien Species Found in Africa! http://www.sciencei nafrica.co. za/2010/february /aliens_impact. htm http://tinyurl. com/y8td2wo Impact of nature's invading aliens measured for first time A large grove of eucalypts on the Kariega river dwarfs this vehicle Invasive Alien Species, ranging from disease and plants, to rats and goats, are one of the top three threats to life on this planet, according to a new publication coordinated by the Global Invasive Species Programme (GISP), of which IUCN is a partner. Most countries have made international commitments to tackle this threat, but only half have introduced relevant legislation and even fewer are taking adequate action on the ground. The publication, "Global indicators of biological invasion: species numbers, biodiversity impact and policy responses", looked at 57 countries and found that, on average, there are 50 non-indigenous species per country which have a negative impact on biodiversity. The number of invasive alien species ranged from nine in Equatorial Guinea to 222 in New Zealand. A total of 542 species were documented as invasive aliens, including 316 plants, 101 marine organisms, 44 freshwater fish, 43 mammal, 23 bird and 15 amphibian species. According to Prof. Melodie McGeoch, lead author on the publication and member of the Centre for Invasion Biology, these numbers are a significant underestimate. "We showed that regions with low development status and little investment in research have lower than expected numbers of invasive aliens". An increase in the number and spread of alien species, which adversely affect the habitats they invade, is nonetheless attributed to a substantial rise in international trade over the past 25 years. --------<Continued at link>------- - \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46890	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Social Snails?

Well, I don't have any lonely snails that I can tell, I don't have any single snails in tanks at least ;) LOL. I have noticed that adult mystery snails seem to randomly die, and they easily starve to death. Especially if they close up their shell and stop eating for over a week and just "float around the tank". I lose a snail at least once a month though, and since I have plenty more after I lose one I don't mind when I lose a snail ;). I do notice that when they die whatever killed them doesn't affect my other snails because one out of 25+ snails definitely seems like a fluke, not an illness going around. Were there any holes in the dead snails shell? Are you sure it was dead? Did it smell really bad and just hang out of the shell when you poked at it? Sometimes when they "rest" they appear to be dead, but if you poke or prod them a bit they will suck back into their shell and close their "trap door" for safety. If you didn't poke and prod to make sure it was dead you could have possibly thrown away a "resting" snail, instead of a dead one. Always make sure to check your snails with the smell test first, if they don't smell then poke and prod them a bit and see if they move at all, if you get no movement it could just be a "freshly" dead snail that hasn't started to smell, but they tend to smell pretty quickly once they are dead. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > I had a snail in each of my two Betta tanks and Mom's too. The ones in > my two side by side tanks would climb on the glass and face each other > as close as they could. One of those two died yesterday. I have > nothing more than gut feeling to go by -- but I think it was of > LONELINESS. I think he needed and wanted the physical touch and > companionship of another snail. The long distance relationship just > didn't cut it. I had wanted to get each of them companions last week > but the selection at the pet store was unhealthy and sad. > > I took my remaining snail and added it to Mom's Betta tank. I hope the > two snails will be happy together. They found each other nearly > immediately and had a good time checking each other out. > > So Amber, what do you think about my theory that snails are social > creatures and don't like to be alone in a tank? > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46891	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Alien Species Found in Africa!

Lenny, I do not know if it is one of the three, but it certainly is an important threat to native species. Most introduces species have no natural predators within their introduced range, and thus can easily out compete other species within their niche. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Alien Species Found in Africa! While I appreciate the want to keep non-indigenous species from spreading (although I do not think it's possible to stop the spread due to modern human global transportation), I'm not sure I agree with the statement in the third paragraph, "Invasive Alien Species ... are one of the top three threats to life on this planet ...". That's a little over the top, IMO... and the kind of alarmist statements associated with the global cooling... oops.. I meant global warming... oops... I meant climate change folk's threats of gloom and doom for the past 40 years... which we now know is all based on falsified data... or would that accurately be called science-fiction? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Alien Species Found in Africa! http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2010/february/aliens_impact.htm http://tinyurl.com/y8td2wo Impact of nature's invading aliens measured for first time A large grove of eucalypts on the Kariega river dwarfs this vehicle Invasive Alien Species, ranging from disease and plants, to rats and goats, are one of the top three threats to life on this planet, according to a new publication coordinated by the Global Invasive Species Programme (GISP), of which IUCN is a partner. Most countries have made international commitments to tackle this threat, but only half have introduced relevant legislation and even fewer are taking adequate action on the ground. The publication, "Global indicators of biological invasion: species numbers, biodiversity impact and policy responses", looked at 57 countries and found that, on average, there are 50 non-indigenous species per country which have a negative impact on biodiversity. The number of invasive alien species ranged from nine in Equatorial Guinea to 222 in New Zealand. A total of 542 species were documented as invasive aliens, including 316 plants, 101 marine organisms, 44 freshwater fish, 43 mammal, 23 bird and 15 amphibian species. According to Prof. Melodie McGeoch, lead author on the publication and member of the Centre for Invasion Biology, these numbers are a significant underestimate. "We showed that regions with low development status and little investment in research have lower than expected numbers of invasive aliens". An increase in the number and spread of alien species, which adversely affect the habitats they invade, is nonetheless attributed to a substantial rise in international trade over the past 25 years. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Re: Alien Species Found in Africa!

I agree.. non-indigenous species are certainly a threat to other species and there's nothing wrong with taking reasonable measures to control the spread (unfortunately, politicians do not do things very reasonable when ever they do try to do anything)... but non-indigenous species are not any where near the top three threats to life on Earth, IMO. I've been contemplating the top three threats and my best guestimate would be... 1) A BIG asteroid or comet hitting the earth 2) Global Nuclear Annihilation 3) A man-made pathogen-gone-wild, probably done by accident. Other than the number one item above, I think man-made things would complete the top 100 list with "natural" events starting up after that. I'm not sure Non-indigenous species would even make my top 100 list. ;-) Now, everybody can sleep well tonight thinking about that BIG asteroid or comet that's gonna take us all out! Mwahhhh-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Alien Species Found in Africa! Lenny, I do not know if it is one of the three, but it certainly is an important threat to native species. Most introduces species have no natural predators within their introduced range, and thus can easily out compete other species within their niche. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Alien Species Found in Africa! While I appreciate the want to keep non-indigenous species from spreading (although I do not think it's possible to stop the spread due to modern human global transportation), I'm not sure I agree with the statement in the third paragraph, "Invasive Alien Species ... are one of the top three threats to life on this planet ...". That's a little over the top, IMO... and the kind of alarmist statements associated with the global cooling... oops.. I meant global warming... oops... I meant climate change folk's threats of gloom and doom for the past 40 years... which we now know is all based on falsified data... or would that accurately be called science-fiction? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Alien Species Found in Africa! http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2010/february/aliens_impact.htm http://tinyurl.com/y8td2wo Impact of nature's invading aliens measured for first time A large grove of eucalypts on the Kariega river dwarfs this vehicle Invasive Alien Species, ranging from disease and plants, to rats and goats, are one of the top three threats to life on this planet, according to a new publication coordinated by the Global Invasive Species Programme (GISP), of which IUCN is a partner. Most countries have made international commitments to tackle this threat, but only half have introduced relevant legislation and even fewer are taking adequate action on the ground. The publication, "Global indicators of biological invasion: species numbers, biodiversity impact and policy responses", looked at 57 countries and found that, on average, there are 50 non-indigenous species per country which have a negative impact on biodiversity. The number of invasive alien species ranged from nine in Equatorial Guinea to 222 in New Zealand. A total of 542 species were documented as invasive aliens, including 316 plants, 101 marine organisms, 44 freshwater fish, 43 mammal, 23 bird and 15 amphibian species. According to Prof. Melodie McGeoch, lead author on the publication and member of the Centre for Invasion Biology, these numbers are a significant underestimate. "We showed that regions with low development status and little investment in research have lower than expected numbers of invasive aliens". An increase in the number and spread of alien species, which adversely affect the habitats they invade, is nonetheless attributed to a substantial rise in international trade over the past 25 years. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46893	From: Noura	Date: 2/24/2010
Subject: Kenyi Cichlid

Hi to everyone, I bought two pairs of baby Kenyi Cichlids, I suppose, which I'm planning to move to a separate species tank (under construction right now), but I had to buy them before it's ready because it's very rare to find cichlid juvis here, so it was a catch! An internet search left me a bit puzzled, as the photos of the mature yellow males are slightly different in color from the juvis I have. I posted photos of the two differently colored cichlids that I bought, but I'm not quite sure if they are males "yellow" and females "blue", or are these two different species "Kenyi for blue is confirmed", but I don't know about the yellow ones. They are less than 1" currently (tail not included). Can you please check these photos and confirm the species? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list Thanks guys Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46894	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

The males are yellow with stripes but usually not very dark stripes, paler yellow as juvis and then get brighter yellow as they mature. The females are blue with the black stripes, usually paler blue as juvis. I glanced at your pictures, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list?m ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc OR http://tinyurl.com/yfndt7l and yours seem to fit the above descriptions so far. Here's a couple of good profiles and care sheets for them for general information to start with. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m_lombardoi.php http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pseudotropheus_lombardoi.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Kenyi Cichlid Hi to everyone, I bought two pairs of baby Kenyi Cichlids, I suppose, which I'm planning to move to a separate species tank (under construction right now), but I had to buy them before it's ready because it's very rare to find cichlid juvis here, so it was a catch! An internet search left me a bit puzzled, as the photos of the mature yellow males are slightly different in color from the juvis I have. I posted photos of the two differently colored cichlids that I bought, but I'm not quite sure if they are males "yellow" and females "blue", or are these two different species "Kenyi for blue is confirmed", but I don't know about the yellow ones. They are less than 1" currently (tail not included). Can you please check these photos and confirm the species? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list Thanks guys Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46895	From: Noura	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Ram fry-Lainey

Hi Lainey, I'm eager to read ram fry update. I think that many people here love them as their own fry-babies! lol, as we've been following them since they were just eggs! Hope all is fine with them in their new larger tank. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46896	From: Noura	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Thanks Lenny I was suspecting the yellow ones to be "Electric Yellow Cichlid", but when I googled for more images of this one, I noticed the dark line on the dorsal fin. so it's more likely that what I have is Kenyi males. Most sites indicate that they are herbivores, but from what I noticed during the 3 days since I brought them , is that they eat meaty and worm foods with great voracity. Still, does what I read mean that they may accpet protein foods but vegetarian foods are needed for best health? Of course, once they are in their own tank I can better control their diet. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The males are yellow with stripes but usually not very dark stripes, paler > yellow as juvis and then get brighter yellow as they mature. The females > are blue with the black stripes, usually paler blue as juvis. I glanced at > your pictures, > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list?m > ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc OR http://tinyurl.com/yfndt7l and > yours seem to fit the above descriptions so far. > > Here's a couple of good profiles and care sheets for them for general > information to start with. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m_lombardoi.php > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pseudotropheus_lombardoi.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Kenyi Cichlid > > Hi to everyone, > I bought two pairs of baby Kenyi Cichlids, I suppose, which I'm planning to > move to a separate species tank (under construction right now), but I had to > buy them before it's ready because it's very rare to find cichlid juvis > here, so it was a catch! > > An internet search left me a bit puzzled, as the photos of the mature yellow > males are slightly different in color from the juvis I have. > > I posted photos of the two differently colored cichlids that I bought, but > I'm not quite sure if they are males "yellow" and females "blue", or are > these two different species "Kenyi for blue is confirmed", but I don't know > about the yellow ones. They are less than 1" currently (tail not included). > Can you please check these photos and confirm the species? > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list > Thanks guys > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46897	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Kenyi are some of the most aggressive mbuna from Lake Malawi. The females are blue with bars and mature males are yellow as Lenny said. However, a one inch male should not be mature. Male juveniles look just like females. Could they have been hormoned to cause the early mature color? Mbuna are harem breeders, so you will have a problem with an aggressive male and only one female. You will need 6-7 more females (no more males) and a 75G tank (48" x 18") or larger to keep kenyi successfully when mature. The gallons are not important, but the length (especially) and width of the tank is important. You may have unhealthy aggression in a smaller tank such as a 48" x 12" size. In a 48 x 18 tank you can also have other species of mbuna, but the large tank and large number of females will allow success with kenyi. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Kenyi Cichlid The males are yellow with stripes but usually not very dark stripes, paler yellow as juvis and then get brighter yellow as they mature. The females are blue with the black stripes, usually paler blue as juvis. I glanced at your pictures, http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list? m> yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list?m ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfndt7l> com/yfndt7l and yours seem to fit the above descriptions so far. Here's a couple of good profiles and care sheets for them for general information to start with. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m_lombardoi.php> forum.com/articles/m_lombardoi.php http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pseudotropheus_lombardoi.html> mongabay.com/species/Pseudotropheus_lombardoi.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:47 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Kenyi Cichlid Hi to everyone, I bought two pairs of baby Kenyi Cichlids, I suppose, which I'm planning to move to a separate species tank (under construction right now), but I had to buy them before it's ready because it's very rare to find cichlid juvis here, so it was a catch! An internet search left me a bit puzzled, as the photos of the mature yellow males are slightly different in color from the juvis I have. I posted photos of the two differently colored cichlids that I bought, but I'm not quite sure if they are males "yellow" and females "blue", or are these two different species "Kenyi for blue is confirmed", but I don't know about the yellow ones. They are less than 1" currently (tail not included). Can you please check these photos and confirm the species? http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list> yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list Thanks guys Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46898	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Yes don’t overfeed protein, mbuna have a long gut like cows meant for digestion of algae. Vege foods, even exclusively are safest to avoid digestion problems. Look for ingredients like spirulina (algae) which has more than enough protein on it’s own. If your food contains protein, krill (lean and aquatic) is best. Protein should be less than half their diet I feed a food that is 34% protein. Bloodworms for example are suspected of causing mbuna deaths. Yes they will eat whatever you give them with no regard to their health, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Kenyi Cichlid Thanks Lenny I was suspecting the yellow ones to be "Electric Yellow Cichlid", but when I googled for more images of this one, I noticed the dark line on the dorsal fin. so it's more likely that what I have is Kenyi males. Most sites indicate that they are herbivores, but from what I noticed during the 3 days since I brought them , is that they eat meaty and worm foods with great voracity. Still, does what I read mean that they may accpet protein foods but vegetarian foods are needed for best health? Of course, once they are in their own tank I can better control their diet. Noura --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The males are yellow with stripes but usually not very dark stripes, paler > yellow as juvis and then get brighter yellow as they mature. The females > are blue with the black stripes, usually paler blue as juvis. I glanced at > your pictures, > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list? m> yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list?m > ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfndt7l> com/yfndt7l and > yours seem to fit the above descriptions so far. > > Here's a couple of good profiles and care sheets for them for general > information to start with. > > http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m_lombardoi.php> forum.com/articles/m_lombardoi.php > > http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pseudotropheus_lombardoi.html> mongabay.com/species/Pseudotropheus_lombardoi.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Kenyi Cichlid > > Hi to everyone, > I bought two pairs of baby Kenyi Cichlids, I suppose, which I'm planning to > move to a separate species tank (under construction right now), but I had to > buy them before it's ready because it's very rare to find cichlid juvis > here, so it was a catch! > > An internet search left me a bit puzzled, as the photos of the mature yellow > males are slightly different in color from the juvis I have. > > I posted photos of the two differently colored cichlids that I bought, but > I'm not quite sure if they are males "yellow" and females "blue", or are > these two different species "Kenyi for blue is confirmed", but I don't know > about the yellow ones. They are less than 1" currently (tail not included). > Can you please check these photos and confirm the species? > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list> yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list > Thanks guys > Noura > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46899	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Social Snails?

Yeah, he was really dead. He hadn't been acting right for a few days and then that was it. When I put my other snail into Mom's tank, they were literally all over each other in a matter of moments. And I noticed in the pet store that they tended to all congregate in big clumps -- so gut feeling says they're social creatures. I've offered them romaine and cukes as you suggested but I've never seen any evidence that they've eaten either. They push the spirulina wafers around so I assume (hope) they're eating them. On a completely different note: Nessie the Tank Monster (upside down catfish) used to be The Queen of my 55g but now that the tinfoils have gotten big, they intimidate her -- especially at feeding time. So now I feed Nessie by hand. I hold wafer after wafer for her and she literally takes them out of my fingers -- so that she doesn't have to fight the pushy faster tinfoils for ones that float down. ~Kai > Amber wrote: > > Well, I don't have any lonely snails that I can tell, I don't have any single snails in tanks at least ;) LOL. > I have noticed that adult mystery snails seem to randomly die, and they easily starve to death. Especially if they close up their shell and stop eating for over a week and just "float around the tank". I lose a snail at least once a month though, and since I have plenty more after I lose one I don't mind when I lose a snail ;). > I do notice that when they die whatever killed them doesn't affect my other snails because one out of 25+ snails definitely seems like a fluke, not an illness going around. Were there any holes in the dead snails shell? Are you sure it was dead? Did it smell really bad and just hang out of the shell when you poked at it? > Sometimes when they "rest" they appear to be dead, but if you poke or prod them a bit they will suck back into their shell and close their "trap door" for safety. If you didn't poke and prod to make sure it was dead you could have possibly thrown away a "resting" snail, instead of a dead one. Always make sure to check your snails with the smell test first, if they don't smell then poke and prod them a bit and see if they move at all, if you get no movement it could just be a "freshly" dead snail that hasn't started to smell, but they tend to smell pretty quickly once they are dead. > > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I had a snail in each of my two Betta tanks and Mom's too. The ones in my two side by side tanks would climb on the glass and face each other as close as they could. One of those two died yesterday. I have nothing more than gut feeling to go by -- but I think it was of LONELINESS. I think he needed and wanted the physical touch and companionship of another snail. The long distance relationship just didn't cut it. I had wanted to get each of them companions last week but the selection at the pet store was unhealthy and sad. > > > > I took my remaining snail and added it to Mom's Betta tank. I hope the two snails will be happy together. They found each other nearly immediately and had a good time checking each other out. > > > > So Amber, what do you think about my theory that snails are social creatures and don't like to be alone in a tank? > > ~Kai > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46900	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Noura, Just as you first suspected, I am STILL suspecting that your yellow juveniles are Electric Yellow Labs (a morph of Labidochromis coeruleus). As Donna states, the juveniles of almost all Mbuna species are colored like the female parent, with a few exceptions, and those are usually because the adult males and females are the same color -- as would be found in Red Zebras (Metriaclima estherae) and YELLOW LABS (Labidochromis coeruleus), which incidentally have the dark band through the dorsal fin as you describe.. While it's still possible that your yellow juveniles may have been hormone injected, again as Donna suggests (and a practice that is prevalant with Far Eastern fish breeders), I have not yet heard of any Rift Lake Cichlids being so injected. At the size you mention (less than 1") for these fish, there's no way that these juvies would naturally exhibit the coloration of an adult male. You may still have two different species here. BTW, Pseudotropheus lombardoi (Ps. "kenyi") attain a size of 5" when fully grown. They are one of the more aggressive Malawi Cichlids, as Donna points out, and while I used to import them, I never maintained this species long-term (only as there are at least 230 Mbuna species known to exist). My experience with those aggressive Mbuna which I did maintain long-term to breed was that they need a minimum of at least a 36" long tank -- and preferably one of 18" in width as they mature. The 48" that Donna mentions may be necessary for this species though, quite possibly also as a result of their full size they will reach in addition to their temperament, but certainly no smaller than the 36" under any circumstances -- and then -- with a good deal of rockwork. To try to maintain aggressive adult Mbuna species in anything smaller is to invite the death of the females in short time. As has been stated, the more aggressive Mbuna preferably need on average about 7 or 8 females to the two males (that you MAY have), again requiring the larger tank if only because of their size. This ratio is needed to disperse the aggression of the males between all the females so that no one female in particular will get the brunt of this behavior -- and I would point out that this behavior does not need for the fish reaching full size, but as they continue to grow and approach maturity at less than half grown. Only in the context of being more complete in maintaining Mbuna, for the benefit of other readers, some of the less aggressive Mbuna -- such as the Electric Yellow Lab -- may be kept in 30" long tank (still, with rockwork -- to provide retreats for the females), but only for such mellower Cichlids. Watch that diet you're currently providing as too much protein will promote Malawi Bloat. Spirulina flakes and algae wafers should be offered, although you could include Romaine lettuce attached on a food clamp and other veggies as long as you remove them after a short while before they start to decay. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46901	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: redone 55 gallon

I have started to revamp my 55 gallon aquarium. I have upgraded my lights from 30 watts to 64 watts. That would give me about 1 and a 1/3 watts per gallon if I am correct. I have put some plants in the aquarium. I have put ancharis, hornwort, cambodia, java fern, jungle vals in already. I am wanting to put more. The fish in the tank are 4 rainbowfish, 4 mollies, 2 platties, 1 common pleco(will trade in when larger). I am wanting to add 2 large angelfish and 2 bristlenose plecos to replace the common pleco. Would this setup work with the lighting that I have? Would I need to fertilize? What about running an airstone? What about running aquarium salt with the plants? I am doing 30% water changes weekly. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46902	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey

Noura - John has abducted my camera for his new seagrass biotope tank which apparently requires photos to be sent to friends in Indonesia/Hawaii etc daily. I will try and get some pictures later today. I wasn't sure how interested everyone was/is, so trying not to be one of those people who spew their baby pictures all over the internet:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Noura wrote: > Hi Lainey, > I'm eager to read ram fry update. I think that many people here > love them as their own fry-babies! lol, as we've been following > them since they were just eggs! Hope all is fine with them in their > new larger tank. > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46903	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey

There are a lot of people on this group that like baby pictures! UPDATES ARE WELCOMED! Think of it like your favorite Soap Opera! We like keeping up with things, and since no one has asked lately? How are the parents? Any NEW spawns? Bill --- On Thu, 2/25/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry-Lainey > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, February 25, 2010, 11:13 AM > Noura - > > John has abducted my camera for his new seagrass biotope > tank which  > apparently requires photos to be sent to friends in > Indonesia/Hawaii  > etc daily. I will try and get some pictures later today. I > wasn't  > sure how interested everyone was/is, so trying not to be > one of those  > people who spew their baby pictures all over the > internet:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Noura wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > I'm eager to read ram fry update. I think that many > people here  > > love them as their own fry-babies! lol, as we've been > following  > > them since they were just eggs! Hope all is fine with > them in their  > > new larger tank. > > > > Noura > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46904	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey

At least over the internet, I can hit the delete key :-D It's tougher when I get stuck with someone in person that doesn't know when to stop showing their baby pics. They don't even pick up the tell-tale body language of a person checking their watch... which is akin to the delete key in real life. ;-) Just kidding though... since this is a fish group, I'm sure most folks take a peek at any new pics you post. I know I do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry-Lainey Noura - John has abducted my camera for his new seagrass biotope tank which apparently requires photos to be sent to friends in Indonesia/Hawaii etc daily. I will try and get some pictures later today. I wasn't sure how interested everyone was/is, so trying not to be one of those people who spew their baby pictures all over the internet:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Noura wrote: > Hi Lainey, > I'm eager to read ram fry update. I think that many people here love > them as their own fry-babies! lol, as we've been following them since > they were just eggs! Hope all is fine with them in their new larger > tank. > > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46905	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: redone 55 gallon

What kind of lighting? Do you know the lumens of each bulb/tube? Watts is no longer a viable standard for aquarium lighting.. or much other lighting for that matter. Lumens is probably the best standard to use nowadays. If it's standard fluorescent tubes, even then the lumens rating can vary wildly between equal wattage tubes. I've seen the same wattage tubes have lumen ratings from 750 lumens to 2,550 lumens for the same wattage yet the 2,550 lumen tubes would be putting out around 3.5 times more light. There's no need to use aquarium salt... unless it's being used to treat a specific issue... a pinch per 10G for nitrogen cycle (nitrite poisoning prevention) issues up to much higher levels for the treatment of certain bacteria or parasites. It's simply not needed as a maintenance additive, regardless of some of the advertising that might be printed on the boxes at the pet stores... and then if you did need salt, DON'T get aquarium salt, just get plain table salt at about 1/10th the price. It's the same thing... Sodium Chloride (NaCl). Your proposed new fish (Angelfish and BN Plecos) do not need salt in their water... although your current livebearers do like a little salt in their water but depending on your source water parameters, your source water may be fine for them already. What are your tap/source water parameters after the 48 hour baseline testing? If you have hard water, then there's no need to add salt even for the livebearers. If you have soft water, your Angelfish and BN Plecos will like that better but the livebearers will not like it as much. Have you thought about getting rid of the livebearers and rainbow fish or were you intent on keeping them all? Do you know what species of rainbow fish that you have? http://badmanstropicalfish.com/rainbow.html The two Angelfish and two BN Plecos already do a pretty good job of filling up the bioload of a 55G, although you could handle a nice school of small schooling fish as well. As far as fertilizing, you'll have to wait and see. It would depend on how your plants are doing with the natural fertilizer they will be getting from your fish... and how many plants you have and how well they are growing with your current lighting. You generally do not need an airstone in most tanks that are planted and have adequate filtration. While airstones do provide some utilitarian duties, they are mostly decorative in most tanks that have adequate filtration and circulation. Planted tanks do not need them as a general rule since you want to limit the amount of surface agitation in a planted tank so that more CO2 stays in the water for use by the plants. Surface agitation would allow more CO2 to outgas from the water which may not be as good for the plants if you have low levels of CO2 already. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of friendtoallfish Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] redone 55 gallon I have started to revamp my 55 gallon aquarium. I have upgraded my lights from 30 watts to 64 watts. That would give me about 1 and a 1/3 watts per gallon if I am correct. I have put some plants in the aquarium. I have put ancharis, hornwort, cambodia, java fern, jungle vals in already. I am wanting to put more. The fish in the tank are 4 rainbowfish, 4 mollies, 2 platties, 1 common pleco(will trade in when larger). I am wanting to add 2 large angelfish and 2 bristlenose plecos to replace the common pleco. Would this setup work with the lighting that I have? Would I need to fertilize? What about running an airstone? What about running aquarium salt with the plants? I am doing 30% water changes weekly. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46906	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: New Ram pictures

Here are some six week photos of the babies, and also a couple of mom and dad with their rock. Are they spawning again? Um, I'm not checking... The babies are deliciously happy with their new 20 long, exploring and charging around all day long. One of them is a bit smaller than the others but they all seem very robust. Thanks for all of your support and interest! See new photos or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/ album/2049115566/pic/list? mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46907	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey

I take peeks at new photo's people post too, even if it's something I don't know about ;) LOL. Speaking of baby pics, I may have some BN pleco's breeding in the future, the male has now "claimed" his cave and occasionally I see the females checking it out, but they're a little younger than the albino male, so perhaps they're not quite "ready" ;) Your babies are looking really nice Lainey, can see their stripes and everything. Are the males starting to get any color yet? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > At least over the internet, I can hit the delete key :-D It's tougher when > I get stuck with someone in person that doesn't know when to stop showing > their baby pics. They don't even pick up the tell-tale body language of a > person checking their watch... which is akin to the delete key in real > life. > ;-) > > Just kidding though... since this is a fish group, I'm sure most folks > take > a peek at any new pics you post. I know I do. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry-Lainey > > Noura - > > John has abducted my camera for his new seagrass biotope tank which > apparently requires photos to be sent to friends in Indonesia/Hawaii etc > daily. I will try and get some pictures later today. I wasn't sure how > interested everyone was/is, so trying not to be one of those people > who spew > their baby pictures all over the internet:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Noura wrote: > > > Hi Lainey, > > I'm eager to read ram fry update. I think that many people here love > > them as their own fry-babies! lol, as we've been following them since > > they were just eggs! Hope all is fine with them in their new larger > > tank. > > > > Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46908	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey

well, there are dashes of red on fins and the eyes are turning red...but mainly it is those bold black stripes I see now... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 25, 2010, at 5:10 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I take peeks at new photo's people post too, even if it's something I > don't know about ;) LOL. > Speaking of baby pics, I may have some BN pleco's breeding in the > future, the male has now "claimed" his cave and occasionally I see the > females checking it out, but they're a little younger than the albino > male, so perhaps they're not quite "ready" ;) > Your babies are looking really nice Lainey, can see their stripes and > everything. Are the males starting to get any color yet? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> At least over the internet, I can hit the delete key :-D It's >> tougher when >> I get stuck with someone in person that doesn't know when to stop >> showing >> their baby pics. They don't even pick up the tell-tale body >> language of a >> person checking their watch... which is akin to the delete key in >> real >> life. >> ;-) >> >> Just kidding though... since this is a fish group, I'm sure most >> folks >> take >> a peek at any new pics you post. I know I do. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// >> GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM >> SAINTS? >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:14 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >> 40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry-Lainey >> >> Noura - >> >> John has abducted my camera for his new seagrass biotope tank which >> apparently requires photos to be sent to friends in Indonesia/ >> Hawaii etc >> daily. I will try and get some pictures later today. I wasn't sure >> how >> interested everyone was/is, so trying not to be one of those people >> who spew >> their baby pictures all over the internet:) >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Noura wrote: >> >>> Hi Lainey, >>> I'm eager to read ram fry update. I think that many people here love >>> them as their own fry-babies! lol, as we've been following them >>> since >>> they were just eggs! Hope all is fine with them in their new larger >>> tank. >>> >>> Noura >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46909	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

A hybrid between yellow labs and red zebra looks like a yellow lab without the dorsal stripe. Maybe that's a possibility. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Kenyi Cichlid Noura, Just as you first suspected, I am STILL suspecting that your yellow juveniles are Electric Yellow Labs (a morph of Labidochromis coeruleus). As Donna states, the juveniles of almost all Mbuna species are colored like the female parent, with a few exceptions, and those are usually because the adult males and females are the same color -- as would be found in Red Zebras (Metriaclima estherae) and YELLOW LABS (Labidochromis coeruleus), which incidentally have the dark band through the dorsal fin as you describe.. While it's still possible that your yellow juveniles may have been hormone injected, again as Donna suggests (and a practice that is prevalant with Far Eastern fish breeders), I have not yet heard of any Rift Lake Cichlids being so injected. At the size you mention (less than 1") for these fish, there's no way that these juvies would naturally exhibit the coloration of an adult male. You may still have two different species here. BTW, Pseudotropheus lombardoi (Ps. "kenyi") attain a size of 5" when fully grown. They are one of the more aggressive Malawi Cichlids, as Donna points out, and while I used to import them, I never maintained this species long-term (only as there are at least 230 Mbuna species known to exist). My experience with those aggressive Mbuna which I did maintain long-term to breed was that they need a minimum of at least a 36" long tank -- and preferably one of 18" in width as they mature. The 48" that Donna mentions may be necessary for this species though, quite possibly also as a result of their full size they will reach in addition to their temperament, but certainly no smaller than the 36" under any circumstances -- and then -- with a good deal of rockwork. To try to maintain aggressive adult Mbuna species in anything smaller is to invite the death of the females in short time. As has been stated, the more aggressive Mbuna preferably need on average about 7 or 8 females to the two males (that you MAY have), again requiring the larger tank if only because of their size. This ratio is needed to disperse the aggression of the males between all the females so that no one female in particular will get the brunt of this behavior -- and I would point out that this behavior does not need for the fish reaching full size, but as they continue to grow and approach maturity at less than half grown. Only in the context of being more complete in maintaining Mbuna, for the benefit of other readers, some of the less aggressive Mbuna -- such as the Electric Yellow Lab -- may be kept in 30" long tank (still, with rockwork -- to provide retreats for the females), but only for such mellower Cichlids. Watch that diet you're currently providing as too much protein will promote Malawi Bloat. Spirulina flakes and algae wafers should be offered, although you could include Romaine lettuce attached on a food clamp and other veggies as long as you remove them after a short while before they start to decay. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46910	From: Noura	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey

I didn't expect them to grow that big in such a short time. Really good work Lainey, you're a true "mom" :) Keep us updated. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lainey Alexander To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry-Lainey well, there are dashes of red on fins and the eyes are turning red...but mainly it is those bold black stripes I see now... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 25, 2010, at 5:10 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I take peeks at new photo's people post too, even if it's something I > don't know about ;) LOL. > Speaking of baby pics, I may have some BN pleco's breeding in the > future, the male has now "claimed" his cave and occasionally I see the > females checking it out, but they're a little younger than the albino > male, so perhaps they're not quite "ready" ;) > Your babies are looking really nice Lainey, can see their stripes and > everything. Are the males starting to get any color yet? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> At least over the internet, I can hit the delete key :-D It's >> tougher when >> I get stuck with someone in person that doesn't know when to stop >> showing >> their baby pics. They don't even pick up the tell-tale body >> language of a >> person checking their watch... which is akin to the delete key in >> real >> life. >> ;-) >> >> Just kidding though... since this is a fish group, I'm sure most >> folks >> take >> a peek at any new pics you post. I know I do. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// >> GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM >> SAINTS? >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:14 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >> 40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry-Lainey >> >> Noura - >> >> John has abducted my camera for his new seagrass biotope tank which >> apparently requires photos to be sent to friends in Indonesia/ >> Hawaii etc >> daily. I will try and get some pictures later today. I wasn't sure >> how >> interested everyone was/is, so trying not to be one of those people >> who spew >> their baby pictures all over the internet:) >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Noura wrote: >> >>> Hi Lainey, >>> I'm eager to read ram fry update. I think that many people here love >>> them as their own fry-babies! lol, as we've been following them >>> since >>> they were just eggs! Hope all is fine with them in their new larger >>> tank. >>> >>> Noura >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((?> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46911	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/25/2010
Subject: Re: Ram fry-Lainey

Well, they eat a *lot*. Four times a day they seem absolutely starving and devour bloodworms, brine shrimp, mysis, flakes, daphnia, and pieces of plants:) Thanks for the confidence... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 25, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Noura wrote: > I didn't expect them to grow that big in such a short time. Really > good work Lainey, you're a true "mom" :) Keep us updated. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:15 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry-Lainey > > well, there are dashes of red on fins and the eyes are turning > red...but mainly it is those bold black stripes I see now... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Feb 25, 2010, at 5:10 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I take peeks at new photo's people post too, even if it's > something I > > don't know about ;) LOL. > > Speaking of baby pics, I may have some BN pleco's breeding in the > > future, the male has now "claimed" his cave and occasionally I > see the > > females checking it out, but they're a little younger than the > albino > > male, so perhaps they're not quite "ready" ;) > > Your babies are looking really nice Lainey, can see their stripes > and > > everything. Are the males starting to get any color yet? > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >> At least over the internet, I can hit the delete key :-D It's > >> tougher when > >> I get stuck with someone in person that doesn't know when to stop > >> showing > >> their baby pics. They don't even pick up the tell-tale body > >> language of a > >> person checking their watch... which is akin to the delete key in > >> real > >> life. > >> ;-) > >> > >> Just kidding though... since this is a fish group, I'm sure most > >> folks > >> take > >> a peek at any new pics you post. I know I do. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// > >> GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > >> right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > >> SAINTS? > >> WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:14 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > >> 40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram fry-Lainey > >> > >> Noura - > >> > >> John has abducted my camera for his new seagrass biotope tank which > >> apparently requires photos to be sent to friends in Indonesia/ > >> Hawaii etc > >> daily. I will try and get some pictures later today. I wasn't sure > >> how > >> interested everyone was/is, so trying not to be one of those people > >> who spew > >> their baby pictures all over the internet:) > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Noura wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Lainey, > >>> I'm eager to read ram fry update. I think that many people here > love > >>> them as their own fry-babies! lol, as we've been following them > >>> since > >>> they were just eggs! Hope all is fine with them in their new > larger > >>> tank. > >>> > >>> Noura > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((?>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((?> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > > ((((?> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <?((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<?((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<?((((><� > > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46912	From: Noura	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

I believe now that the yellow cichlids I have are Electric Yellow Labs, as Ray considered more probable, because I had a better look today and noticed the black band on one of them as it was spreading his dorsal fin. Does the Electric Yellow Lab do okey with the agressive Kenyi? As for the food, I do have "Cichlid Flakes" containing spirulina, and a total of 30% "min" Crude Protein, 10% "max" Crude Fiber. The tag on the container says: Fish meal, dried yeast, shrimp meal, wheat gluten, soya meal, algae astaxanthin, multi vitamins and trace mineral. Is this a good food for everyday feeding along with occasional fresh green vegetables? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:10 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Kenyi Cichlid Yes don’t overfeed protein, mbuna have a long gut like cows meant for digestion of algae. Vege foods, even exclusively are safest to avoid digestion problems. Look for ingredients like spirulina (algae) which has more than enough protein on it’s own. If your food contains protein, krill (lean and aquatic) is best. Protein should be less than half their diet I feed a food that is 34% protein. Bloodworms for example are suspected of causing mbuna deaths. Yes they will eat whatever you give them with no regard to their health, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Kenyi Cichlid Thanks Lenny I was suspecting the yellow ones to be "Electric Yellow Cichlid", but when I googled for more images of this one, I noticed the dark line on the dorsal fin. so it's more likely that what I have is Kenyi males. Most sites indicate that they are herbivores, but from what I noticed during the 3 days since I brought them , is that they eat meaty and worm foods with great voracity. Still, does what I read mean that they may accpet protein foods but vegetarian foods are needed for best health? Of course, once they are in their own tank I can better control their diet. Noura --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > The males are yellow with stripes but usually not very dark stripes, paler > yellow as juvis and then get brighter yellow as they mature. The females > are blue with the black stripes, usually paler blue as juvis. I glanced at > your pictures, > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list? m> yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list?m > ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfndt7l> com/yfndt7l and > yours seem to fit the above descriptions so far. > > Here's a couple of good profiles and care sheets for them for general > information to start with. > > http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/m_lombardoi.php> forum.com/articles/m_lombardoi.php > > http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Pseudotropheus_lombardoi.html> mongabay.com/species/Pseudotropheus_lombardoi.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Kenyi Cichlid > > Hi to everyone, > I bought two pairs of baby Kenyi Cichlids, I suppose, which I'm planning to > move to a separate species tank (under construction right now), but I had to > buy them before it's ready because it's very rare to find cichlid juvis > here, so it was a catch! > > An internet search left me a bit puzzled, as the photos of the mature yellow > males are slightly different in color from the juvis I have. > > I posted photos of the two differently colored cichlids that I bought, but > I'm not quite sure if they are males "yellow" and females "blue", or are > these two different species "Kenyi for blue is confirmed", but I don't know > about the yellow ones. They are less than 1" currently (tail not included). > Can you please check these photos and confirm the species? > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list> yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list > Thanks guys > Noura > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46913	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46914	From: friendtoallfish	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: redone 55 gallon

Thanks Lenny. That was alot of information. What kind of lighting? Do you know the lumens of each bulb/tube? I went with shop lights. I don't know the lumens for the bulbs but they say 4100k. What are your tap/source > water parameters after the 48 hour baseline testing? Not sure what that means. Does that mean to test my tap water then leave it for 48 hours and test the same water that was tested before again? Have you thought > about getting rid of the livebearers and rainbow fish or were you intent on > keeping them all? Do you know what species of rainbow fish that you have? I have thought about putting the rainbows in another tank but haven't decided about that yet. I have Austrailian rainbowfish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What kind of lighting? Do you know the lumens of each bulb/tube? Watts is > no longer a viable standard for aquarium lighting.. or much other lighting > for that matter. Lumens is probably the best standard to use nowadays. If > it's standard fluorescent tubes, even then the lumens rating can vary wildly > between equal wattage tubes. I've seen the same wattage tubes have lumen > ratings from 750 lumens to 2,550 lumens for the same wattage yet the 2,550 > lumen tubes would be putting out around 3.5 times more light. > > There's no need to use aquarium salt... unless it's being used to treat a > specific issue... a pinch per 10G for nitrogen cycle (nitrite poisoning > prevention) issues up to much higher levels for the treatment of certain > bacteria or parasites. It's simply not needed as a maintenance additive, > regardless of some of the advertising that might be printed on the boxes at > the pet stores... and then if you did need salt, DON'T get aquarium salt, > just get plain table salt at about 1/10th the price. It's the same thing... > Sodium Chloride (NaCl). Your proposed new fish (Angelfish and BN Plecos) do > not need salt in their water... although your current livebearers do like a > little salt in their water but depending on your source water parameters, > your source water may be fine for them already. What are your tap/source > water parameters after the 48 hour baseline testing? > > If you have hard water, then there's no need to add salt even for the > livebearers. If you have soft water, your Angelfish and BN Plecos will like > that better but the livebearers will not like it as much. Have you thought > about getting rid of the livebearers and rainbow fish or were you intent on > keeping them all? Do you know what species of rainbow fish that you have? > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/rainbow.html The two Angelfish and two BN > Plecos already do a pretty good job of filling up the bioload of a 55G, > although you could handle a nice school of small schooling fish as well. > > As far as fertilizing, you'll have to wait and see. It would depend on how > your plants are doing with the natural fertilizer they will be getting from > your fish... and how many plants you have and how well they are growing with > your current lighting. > > You generally do not need an airstone in most tanks that are planted and > have adequate filtration. While airstones do provide some utilitarian > duties, they are mostly decorative in most tanks that have adequate > filtration and circulation. Planted tanks do not need them as a general > rule since you want to limit the amount of surface agitation in a planted > tank so that more CO2 stays in the water for use by the plants. Surface > agitation would allow more CO2 to outgas from the water which may not be as > good for the plants if you have low levels of CO2 already. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of friendtoallfish > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] redone 55 gallon > > I have started to revamp my 55 gallon aquarium. I have upgraded my lights > from 30 watts to 64 watts. That would give me about 1 and a 1/3 watts per > gallon if I am correct. I have put some plants in the aquarium. I have put > ancharis, hornwort, cambodia, java fern, jungle vals in already. I am > wanting to put more. The fish in the tank are 4 rainbowfish, 4 mollies, 2 > platties, 1 common pleco(will trade in when larger). I am wanting to add 2 > large angelfish and 2 bristlenose plecos to replace the common pleco. Would > this setup work with the lighting that I have? Would I need to fertilize? > What about running an airstone? What about running aquarium salt with the > plants? I am doing 30% water changes weekly. Thanks >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46915	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Also tank size will make a difference, not sure we know the size of the tank yet? For example, a 48" x 18" tank with 1m:7f of each species, (kenyi and lab) would work although the yellow male kenyi and the yellow male lab might fight. But those two fish as individuals in a 30" tank I would expect not to work when the fish mature in about 8 months. The food sounds decent given your difficulty in obtaining supplies. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46916	From: Noura	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Kenyi Cichlid

I've ordered a cutom-made a 34" x 14" tall. It's already built and only needs rock decorations and a few electronic equipments. ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Also tank size will make a difference, not sure we know the size of the tank yet? For example, a 48" x 18" tank with 1m:7f of each species, (kenyi and lab) would work although the yellow male kenyi and the yellow male lab might fight. But those two fish as individuals in a 30" tank I would expect not to work when the fish mature in about 8 months. The food sounds decent given your difficulty in obtaining supplies. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46917	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: (More) cute baby pictures

Just after I said I didn't want to spew too many baby pictures onto the internet, I had to post another one of my babies with their mouths stuffed with bloodworms. At one point all 24 babies had a bloodworm hanging out of their mouths. The bloodworms are as long as they are:) New photos or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/ 2049115566/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46918	From: Noura	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: (More) cute baby pictures

They seem to show more coloration than the previous pics, so cute, they remind me of my guppy fry grabbing pieces of raw chicken liver almost as large as themselves and running away to the corners to keep their loot far from "danger". Are you starting to feed them some color-inhancing food? What kind of ram are their parents? Blue German? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lainey Alexander To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:46 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] (More) cute baby pictures Just after I said I didn't want to spew too many baby pictures onto the internet, I had to post another one of my babies with their mouths stuffed with bloodworms. At one point all 24 babies had a bloodworm hanging out of their mouths. The bloodworms are as long as they are:) New photos or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/ 2049115566/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46919	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: (More) cute baby pictures

I think it's just the light, they do have lots of striping and some color tone in various lights. Also, I got a fancy light for them yesterday, maybe it's that. I'm not feeding anything to enhance color, but I think the way they're pigging out it might happen in spite of what I'm feeding. I was told the parents are Blue rams, and that German Blue doesn't really exist anymore, so I don't know... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Feb 26, 2010, at 7:14 PM, Noura wrote: > They seem to show more coloration than the previous pics, so cute, > they remind me of my guppy fry grabbing pieces of raw chicken liver > almost as large as themselves and running away to the corners to > keep their loot far from "danger". > Are you starting to feed them some color-inhancing food? > What kind of ram are their parents? Blue German? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:46 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] (More) cute baby pictures > > Just after I said I didn't want to spew too many baby pictures onto > the internet, I had to post another one of my babies with their > mouths stuffed with bloodworms. At one point all 24 babies had a > bloodworm hanging out of their mouths. The bloodworms are as long as > they are:) > > New photos or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/ > 2049115566/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46920	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject:

Hello Everyone:    I have raised a few P. Kennyi and the males start turning yellow very young (within a month).  They show some barring but very faint.  If the babies have the dark border on the dorsal fin and are yellow they are Labidochromis.   Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, the "Creature") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46921	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Uh oh, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:Kenyi Cichlid I've ordered a cutom-made a 34" x 14" tall. It's already built and only needs rock decorations and a few electronic equipments. ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Also tank size will make a difference, not sure we know the size of the tank yet? For example, a 48" x 18" tank with 1m:7f of each species, (kenyi and lab) would work although the yellow male kenyi and the yellow male lab might fight. But those two fish as individuals in a 30" tank I would expect not to work when the fish mature in about 8 months. The food sounds decent given your difficulty in obtaining supplies. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46922	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

John, I'm not sure if it's your email client (program) that is stripping the subject line... or if you are doing it manually but please try to make sure the subject line includes the topic you were replying to or your post ends up starting a new thread instead of going into the thread which you were replying to. I've added "Kenyi Cichlid" to the subject line of my reply so hopefully this reply will go into the proper thread but I'm not sure if it will. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 6:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re:       Hello Everyone:    I have raised a few P. Kennyi and the males start turning yellow very young (within a month).  They show some barring but very faint.  If the babies have the dark border on the dorsal fin and are yellow they are Labidochromis.   Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, the "Creature") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46923	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject: Re: redone 55 gallon

OK. The shop light fixture is fine but you should probably change out those 4,100K soft-white type bulbs and go with a daylight type bulb in the 6,500K to 8,000K range. Check the brands ands prices and try to get the most lumens for the buck. Walmart SuperCenters have a decent selection at good prices as do most big-box stores. The packaging for the bulbs should list the lumens if they are not printed directly on the bulb... which apparently yours do not have. If you do not have use for your 4,100K bulbs for any other reason, you could change out just one of them (or half if you have more than two tubes) to the higher spectrum bulb and save the extra 4,100K tube and then 6-9 months from now, buy another higher spectrum bulb and put that and the saved tube in. Hopefully you'll have other uses for the used tubes until they burn out completely but after 6-9 months, fluorescent tubes should be changed out when used for plants but they are still OK for general lighting. Go to my blog and read my article about "Find Your Tap/Source Water Baseline" for details on doing the testing necessary to know this good to know information. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml OR http://tinyurl.com/tap-water-baseline According to Mongabay, one of the premiere sites for fish profiles and care sheets, the Australian Rainbowfish http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Melanotaenia_fluviatilis.html grows to around 4" and should be kept in schools of six or more so that's a pretty big chunk of bioload as well. Trying to keep these, two angelfish, two BN Plecos and your other fish would be an overload for a 55G. As you will see in the Suggested Companions section of the above profile, your livebearers are suitable companions for them since they also like harder and higher pH water whereas your Angelfish and BN Plecos would prefer lower pH and softer water... although both groups would probably do fine in neutral range pH and medium water hardness. This is why knowing your tap water parameters is so important and then try to keep fish that like your tap water in the first place so you don't have to worry about the water harming the fish over the long term. Once we know that, then you can decide on how to mix things up but if you have another tank, that would be your best option, regardless of your water parameters, just to split up the bioload of all your fish which is too large for a single 55G tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of friendtoallfish Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 6:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: redone 55 gallon Thanks Lenny. That was alot of information. What kind of lighting? Do you know the lumens of each bulb/tube? I went with shop lights. I don't know the lumens for the bulbs but they say 4100k. What are your tap/source > water parameters after the 48 hour baseline testing? Not sure what that means. Does that mean to test my tap water then leave it for 48 hours and test the same water that was tested before again? Have you thought > about getting rid of the livebearers and rainbow fish or were you > intent on keeping them all? Do you know what species of rainbow fish that you have? I have thought about putting the rainbows in another tank but haven't decided about that yet. I have Austrailian rainbowfish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > What kind of lighting? Do you know the lumens of each bulb/tube? > Watts is no longer a viable standard for aquarium lighting.. or much > other lighting for that matter. Lumens is probably the best standard > to use nowadays. If it's standard fluorescent tubes, even then the > lumens rating can vary wildly between equal wattage tubes. I've seen > the same wattage tubes have lumen ratings from 750 lumens to 2,550 > lumens for the same wattage yet the 2,550 lumen tubes would be putting out around 3.5 times more light. > > There's no need to use aquarium salt... unless it's being used to > treat a specific issue... a pinch per 10G for nitrogen cycle (nitrite > poisoning > prevention) issues up to much higher levels for the treatment of > certain bacteria or parasites. It's simply not needed as a > maintenance additive, regardless of some of the advertising that might > be printed on the boxes at the pet stores... and then if you did need > salt, DON'T get aquarium salt, just get plain table salt at about 1/10th the price. It's the same thing... > Sodium Chloride (NaCl). Your proposed new fish (Angelfish and BN > Plecos) do not need salt in their water... although your current > livebearers do like a little salt in their water but depending on your > source water parameters, your source water may be fine for them > already. What are your tap/source water parameters after the 48 hour baseline testing? > > If you have hard water, then there's no need to add salt even for the > livebearers. If you have soft water, your Angelfish and BN Plecos > will like that better but the livebearers will not like it as much. > Have you thought about getting rid of the livebearers and rainbow fish > or were you intent on keeping them all? Do you know what species of rainbow fish that you have? > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/rainbow.html The two Angelfish and two > BN Plecos already do a pretty good job of filling up the bioload of a > 55G, although you could handle a nice school of small schooling fish as well. > > As far as fertilizing, you'll have to wait and see. It would depend > on how your plants are doing with the natural fertilizer they will be > getting from your fish... and how many plants you have and how well > they are growing with your current lighting. > > You generally do not need an airstone in most tanks that are planted > and have adequate filtration. While airstones do provide some > utilitarian duties, they are mostly decorative in most tanks that have > adequate filtration and circulation. Planted tanks do not need them > as a general rule since you want to limit the amount of surface > agitation in a planted tank so that more CO2 stays in the water for > use by the plants. Surface agitation would allow more CO2 to outgas > from the water which may not be as good for the plants if you have low levels of CO2 already. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of friendtoallfish > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] redone 55 gallon > > I have started to revamp my 55 gallon aquarium. I have upgraded my > lights from 30 watts to 64 watts. That would give me about 1 and a 1/3 > watts per gallon if I am correct. I have put some plants in the > aquarium. I have put ancharis, hornwort, cambodia, java fern, jungle > vals in already. I am wanting to put more. The fish in the tank are 4 > rainbowfish, 4 mollies, 2 platties, 1 common pleco(will trade in when > larger). I am wanting to add 2 large angelfish and 2 bristlenose > plecos to replace the common pleco. Would this setup work with the lighting that I have? Would I need to fertilize? > What about running an airstone? What about running aquarium salt with > the plants? I am doing 30% water changes weekly. Thanks >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46924	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/26/2010
Subject:

Hello Lainey:    Yep, I'm sure most of us are interested in how the baby Rams are doing and will be for a while yet.  Though breeding this species is not impossible it is not as commonplace as many other species so the notes and pics that you show as you raise these great little cichlids could prove invaluable to others down the road.  Keep the notes and pics coming.  I am keeping track and I know others are as well.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, the "Creature") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46925	From: Noura	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

I guess they really are Yellow Labs, due to the black (now only dark) band. But as Ray referred, they are Yellow labs not Electric Yellow, I didn't even know that Yellow exist without being "electric". Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: john Lewis To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:40 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello Everyone: I have raised a few P. Kennyi and the males start turning yellow very young (within a month). They show some barring but very faint. If the babies have the dark border on the dorsal fin and are yellow they are Labidochromis. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, the "Creature") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46926	From: Noura	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

I didn't know it was that small to get such reaction! lol ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 3:05 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re:Kenyi Cichlid Uh oh, LOL. _____ - [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46927	From: Noura	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46928	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Lfe) Kenyi Cichlid

Noura, Yes, the two different species may interbreed, producing hybrids which are not generally valued as (1) most hobbyist want to maintain and are interested in only certain species (as a specific species, not a hybrid), and (2) while hybrids may have been bred from two different species and may even breed among themselves, some may become infertile after the second or third generation and not be able to further reproduce even though this possibility is variable -- depending on the species involved and how closely related they are. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46929	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Noura, Can you return the two Ps. kenyi and trade them for two Yellow Labs, and purchase several more of these Yellow Labs? As P. kenyi get to be a larger species (5 + "), the males of this species will stake out a much larger territory than will Yellow Labs, for instance, and will make life difficult for the smaller species in a 34" long tank. The height of an Mbuna tank is not as much of a concern, it's the bottom area that they need. A tank of only Yellow Labs would work well in your size tank, besides your not having to be concerned with hybrids. Then, when your Yellow Labs breed, you could readily sell them to your LFS or anyone else without having them rejected. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46930	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Noura, The common name used for this morph of Labidochromis coeruleus varies within the hobby, depending on who's using it and the person(s) that are being spoken to, as to their specific usage. The name of this fish we are discussing is referring to this certain color morph of this species, found at a specific location in Lake Malawi, to differentiate from the more common form of this species, and it's primarily the color that is used to identify and separate this morph from others of the species. The Species name (description) -- "coeruleus" -- is a Latin word (from "coerulea," with "coeruleum" as the adjective and "coeruleus -- or "caeruleus," [either/or] as a derivitive) meaning "blue," so actually this Yellow Labidochromis coeruleus is an anomoly since we are talking about a fish that is normally found as being blue. As the various species of Lake Malawi are isolated around the lake to different areas, quite often natural morphs or varieties of these species develop at these certain isolated locations. Such is the case with this fish. It may be called Yellow Lab, Lemon Yellow Lab, Electric Yellow Lab or even Lion's Cove Yellow Lab, referring to the specific location that it has evolved at, but it's the word "Yellow" that keeps it separate from the normal blue Labidochromis coerules. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46931	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject:

hello:    It Does. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46932	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re:

Hello John Lewis, What does what? There is no Subject line here, nor is there a previous message that you may be replying to, to continue this thread. Your comment is left up in the air. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46933	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46934	From: Melissa	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Phase 22 heat packs

Have any of you guys tried these? I personally am a reptile breeder, previous reptile species were able to tolerate shipping in such cold temps as the heat packs I used made the box stay pretty dag warm. The problem is with the species I work with now (crested geckos), they do not do well at a higher temp so using the normal shipping methods do not work with them. You have a small window for shipping with these guys, normally when temps are above 84 degrees you will find that crested gecko breeders are not shipping their animals, or some who do use ice packs. These new packs, phase 22, are reuseable and rechargeable. The problem is trying to get them to maintain their temps. I have over the last 2 days ran 2 tests with them, one in the freezer where the internal temp of the box went from 73 at the start (the heat pack was heated to 109 degrees), till 9 degrees by the end of the experiment (it ran from 5pm to 10am as that is normally the time frame of when reptiles are shipped). The next experiment was done in a room that was 50 degrees, the heat pack was heated to 134 degrees, internal temp of the box was 76 degrees, and by morning the temp was 59 degrees, much more manageable as these guys need temps between 60-78 to be comfy. I am running one more test tonight but I was wondering if any one on here has had great sucess with these packs? I understand it works off of the heat energy it is provided, hence why it went to 9 degrees in the freezer. So many of us reptile breeders are scratching out heads on how to get it to maintain a temp inbetween 65-75 degrees (ideal temps for cool temp reptiles/amphibians). So any advice you have would be fantastic! Melissa www.sublimereptiles.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46935	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

This is the perfect solution Ray! On Cichlid-forum I have learned that even a 48" tank, unless it is also 18" deep (front to back) is too small for kenyi to be compatible with a male and females. 48x12 too small. 48x18 is the smallest size that will have high odds of success for kenyi. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Kenyi Cichlid Noura, Can you return the two Ps. kenyi and trade them for two Yellow Labs, and purchase several more of these Yellow Labs? As P. kenyi get to be a larger species (5 + "), the males of this species will stake out a much larger territory than will Yellow Labs, for instance, and will make life difficult for the smaller species in a 34" long tank. The height of an Mbuna tank is not as much of a concern, it's the bottom area that they need. A tank of only Yellow Labs would work well in your size tank, besides your not having to be concerned with hybrids. Then, when your Yellow Labs breed, you could readily sell them to your LFS or anyone else without having them rejected. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46936	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

I have never seen the spelling with the "o" Ray so I learned something. I think the "caeruleus" is the more common and the one Ad Konings uses in his books. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Kenyi Cichlid Noura, The common name used for this morph of Labidochromis coeruleus varies within the hobby, depending on who's using it and the person(s) that are being spoken to, as to their specific usage. The name of this fish we are discussing is referring to this certain color morph of this species, found at a specific location in Lake Malawi, to differentiate from the more common form of this species, and it's primarily the color that is used to identify and separate this morph from others of the species. The Species name (description) -- "coeruleus" -- is a Latin word (from "coerulea," with "coeruleum" as the adjective and "coeruleus -- or "caeruleus," [either/or] as a derivitive) meaning "blue," so actually this Yellow Labidochromis coeruleus is an anomoly since we are talking about a fish that is normally found as being blue. As the various species of Lake Malawi are isolated around the lake to different areas, quite often natural morphs or varieties of these species develop at these certain isolated locations. Such is the case with this fish. It may be called Yellow Lab, Lemon Yellow Lab, Electric Yellow Lab or even Lion's Cove Yellow Lab, referring to the specific location that it has evolved at, but it's the word "Yellow" that keeps it separate from the normal blue Labidochromis coerules. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46937	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Background and Explanation Perhaps the most common hybrid in the hobby is Labidochromis caeruleus and metriaclima estherae. So separate genus can't be relied on in all cases as your best protection against crossbreeding. Also the assignment to genus in mbuna and Malawi cichlids is based #1 on fish feeding behavior and associated development of the teeth as opposed to other physiological and genetic differences. The reason all mouthbrooders can crossbreed has to do with the method of fertilization as I understand it. Females lays an egg or two on a surface while circling with the male who is releasing milt into the water. She scoops up the eggs and milt in her mouth as they continue to circle and repeat the process. So.the only compatability required is that the milt of any male has to be capable of fertilizing the eggs of any female. And it pretty much is. Also scientists theorize that all Malawi cichlids may be descended from a single or a very small number of species originating in the rivers surrounding the lake.that the lake was formed during an earthquake and when the rift flooded the riverine species populated the lake. All subsequent cichlid evolution occurred as geological obstacles isolated pockets of fish.for example during a long drought cycle the water level dropped and rocks that were underwater before now isolate a group. That group evolves to feed on what is available in their new world be it algae or plankton or substrate organisms or smaller fish. Specifics for Kenyi and Labs While I agree if you have the correct ratio of males to females cross breeding between a metriaclima lombardoi (kenyi) and labidochromis caeruleus (yellow lab) is MUCH less likely but still possible, if you do not have enough females for the male cross breeding between any mbuna is almost guaranteed. The males WILL breed with any available female, but will breed with his own species if available. One of the problems is.a single female kenyi, once holding eggs, is not available. The male can breed with multiple females a day (harem breeders), and the females hold for 28 days. That's why we recommend at least 4 females for a "peaceful" male like the yellow lab and at least 7 females for an aggressive male like the kenyi. Two other things that make cross breeding more likely between species: similar appearance (kenyi male and yellow lab are both yellow) and the more aggressive male can easily "defeat" the less aggressive male and take over both sets of females. All that said.if you have enough kenyi females I would not worry about crossbreeding with labs in a 48" x 18" or larger tank. The two males may fight (since they are both yellow), but the kenyi will try to stick to kenyi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi> .org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus> .org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46938	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject:

Hello:    Interbreeding between Rift Lake cichlids is actually fairly common in the home aquarium. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46939	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: Phase 22 heat packs

Like all heating (or cooling), your success with a product will depend upon the quality and capability of the insulation, and the temperature outside the insulation as compared with the desired temperature inside of the insulation. Your testing is simply showing you what the limits are for your particular configuration you are using. You will either need more heat packs, a better quality or more insulation, or a different product that is better at maintaining the heat levels desired. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melissa Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Phase 22 heat packs Have any of you guys tried these? I personally am a reptile breeder, previous reptile species were able to tolerate shipping in such cold temps as the heat packs I used made the box stay pretty dag warm. The problem is with the species I work with now (crested geckos), they do not do well at a higher temp so using the normal shipping methods do not work with them. You have a small window for shipping with these guys, normally when temps are above 84 degrees you will find that crested gecko breeders are not shipping their animals, or some who do use ice packs. These new packs, phase 22, are reuseable and rechargeable. The problem is trying to get them to maintain their temps. I have over the last 2 days ran 2 tests with them, one in the freezer where the internal temp of the box went from 73 at the start (the heat pack was heated to 109 degrees), till 9 degrees by the end of the experiment (it ran from 5pm to 10am as that is normally the time frame of when reptiles are shipped). The next experiment was done in a room that was 50 degrees, the heat pack was heated to 134 degrees, internal temp of the box was 76 degrees, and by morning the temp was 59 degrees, much more manageable as these guys need temps between 60-78 to be comfy. I am running one more test tonight but I was wondering if any one on here has had great sucess with these packs? I understand it works off of the heat energy it is provided, hence why it went to 9 degrees in the freezer. So many of us reptile breeders are scratching out heads on how to get it to maintain a temp inbetween 65-75 degrees (ideal temps for cool temp reptiles/amphibians). So any advice you have would be fantastic! Melissa www.sublimereptiles.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46940	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46941	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genus' under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl.com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46942	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Amber, do you have your surfboard ready?

For the Tsunami waves from the earthquake in Chile last night? They say the Tsunami will reach the southern part of Alaska later today. Hang ten baby!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46943	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46944	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Nothing came through Ray. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46945	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Cichlids of Lake Malawi are all related Haplochromines -- some more closely related than others, and some more distantly related -- but all having evolved rather "quickly" in their evolution from one or a few common ancestors, they can and will interbreed as the opportunity presents itself. There have even been such "distantly-related" Genera from Lake Malawi as Aulonocara (a Utaka) and Labeotropheus (an Mbuna) that have successfully bred together in captivity. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46946	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Having already evolved still many eons ago, even though established as separate species in a rather fast manner back then -- the more time that they have been their own species, the more established they have become as rtheir own species. They are not all "hybrids" as you put it but are now individually (but a bit more closely-related species than what normally evolve over a longer period of time) SPECIES. It's only the faster time-element in their evolution that allows for their ability for interbreeding more readily in captivity by man in the aquarium. They DO NOT interbreed in nature even though they have the opportunity to do so, being in proximity of each other in the same areas, but each has their own niche and physical area of habitation. Besides, as long as they have available to them, both sexes of the same species, they will not find the necessity to take the opportunity to interbreed with another species. What you are saying essentially is that while we (Humans) have evolved from apes as a different species, that we are just "hybrids" and that we should readily breed with Chimps because of that. Your thinking is flawed in this line of speciation. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46947	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re:

Does what? Remind you of the babe? DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "john Lewis" <creatureproductions@...> hello: It Does.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46948	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject:

Hello:    Basically a 70 gallon tank or better.  P. kennyi are unfortunately fairly aggressive and if yellow coloring is desired Labidochromis is the better choice.  Another thing that I have done with aggressive africans mixed with moderate or even mellow species is to be sure there is lots of rockwork in the tank to provide a labyrinth for fish to "get away."  (Out of sight, out of mind.)  We have to remember that every piece of cage furniture that is added to the tank increases the amount of both living and exploring possibilities for our fish.  Lots of rocks strategically placed creates lots of habitat to both explore and get away from  "enemies."    Another trick is to add "dither" fish to the tank.  These fish attract the attention of the predators who then lighten up on tankmates.  With all that in mind it is easier to get less aggressive species.    Hope this helps.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, the "Creature") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46949	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject:

Sorry:    I thought the message I was answering would move with the answer.  It was in relation to the rift lake cichlids being yellow without being "Electric Yellow."  I said that they can be yellow without being electric.  There are lots of yellow rift lake m'bunas.    Sorry, My bad. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

As far as your last paragraph and some other possible assumptions, remember that "The Theory Of Evolution" is just that... a theory, it's not scientifically proven yet and possibly never will be. Even with all the DNA testing available today, there is no scientific way to prove the theory. I personally do not believe that humans evolved from chimpanzees but instead were created as a separate species altogether. Nobody has actually found "the missing link" or it would actually be many links that would have to exist, at least in fossil form that could be DNA tested to show that humans evolved from chimps. I don't have a problem believing that humans have changed a little from the first humans on earth and I think more of that "evolution" is due to inbreeding and ecological/environmental adaptation rather than evolving from one species into another... just like fancy goldfish did not evolve from common goldfish but were selectively inbred to create the various *birth defects* that we call fancy features today. This would explain Phyllis Diller and Don King hair... wouldn't it? I do believe that some fish species will also change due to their environments, especially colors, spots, stripes, etc. This kind of change falls more in line with Darwin's theory of evolution for survival of the fittest, rather than for the creation of new species by evolution of another species into a completely different species. It sounds like this is what happened to the Rift Lake cichlids if they truly have *evolved* from a more common ancestry. Now, all that said, the fact that these Rift Lake cichlids can cross-Genera breed so easily means they may be more of color variants and morphs rather than distinctive species with many different Genera... or they have been mis-classified into many different Genera where they should be in the same Genus. This kind of EASY cross-Genera breeding simply does not exist in the rest of the animal kingdom. Now, for Rift Lake fish that have been classified within the same Genus, that kind of species-cross-breeding is more likely and falls more in line with the rest of the animal kingdom like dogs, cats, etc., but the two species that started this thread were classified in completely different Genera and from what others have posted, many other Genera from the Rift Lakes can also easily inter-breed which falls outside of the norm of the rest of the animal kingdom's classification system. Here's the Wiki page on Mammal Hybrids and there are only a relatively few common instances of cross-genera hybridization, when compared to the total number of Genera in the Mammal Class, where this happens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mammal_hybrids Something seems to be wrong with the classification of some fish species, like these Rift Lake Cichlids, for them to be so able to cross-Genera hybridize so easily. Maybe they should have been classified like dogs, as sub-species of Canis Lupus where they would all be sub-species of a more common Genus and Species. This same thing is done with cats, horses, etc. I'm not sure why they decided to make so many different Genera for fish that are so closely related. Whew.... that should give the Cichlid aficionados something to think about... or rather beat their heads into the walls about. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Having already evolved still many eons ago, even though established as separate species in a rather fast manner back then -- the more time that they have been their own species, the more established they have become as rtheir own species. They are not all "hybrids" as you put it but are now individually (but a bit more closely-related species than what normally evolve over a longer period of time) SPECIES. It's only the faster time-element in their evolution that allows for their ability for interbreeding more readily in captivity by man in the aquarium. They DO NOT interbreed in nature even though they have the opportunity to do so, being in proximity of each other in the same areas, but each has their own niche and physical area of habitation. Besides, as long as they have available to them, both sexes of the same species, they will not find the necessity to take the opportunity to interbreed with another species. What you are saying essentially is that while we (Humans) have evolved from apes as a different species, that we are just "hybrids" and that we should readily breed with Chimps because of that. Your thinking is flawed in this line of speciation. Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46951	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

What happened was the geography changed. A long drought cycle lowered the lake, cutting off the various groups from one another and isolating them. They could not swim up and down the coast (land projections and rocks) and they could not swim across the lake (first deep water hap predators and then such deep water that it was a very long swim with no food). Each evolved separately. Cichlid aficionados like me are paranoid about hybridization because this separate evolution is so unique and something worth being preserved. We still have a chance to have a slice of the lake in our tanks.and we want to preserve that option. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genus' under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m> com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfft674> com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU> com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi> .org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus> .org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46952	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

But see my last post in reply to Ray. The EASY cross-genera breeding simply isn't normal... so either the classification of the various Rift Lake species was done too zealously to create a bunch of new Genera instead of having them as species and sub-species within the same or only a few Genera or something else is wrong. It's simply not normal within the classification of the rest of the animal kingdom for this EASY cross-Genera breeding to be taking place with Rift Lake cichlids and any other fish/species that easily cross-Genera breed. As a matter of fact, there could even be problems with the relatively few cross-Genera breedings that do take place in the rest of the animal kingdom where, possibly, those species were mis-classified into separate Genera instead of possibly being within the same Genera and then being species and sub-species. The General rule is that cross-Genera breeding shouldn't happen which is why it's such a spectacle or anomaly when it does happen. If it is happening so commonly with these cichlids, then there's probably something wrong in the classification, IMO. I don't frequent the specialized Cichlid forums that often since I don't keep them but is this type of discussion ever discussed in those forums? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid What happened was the geography changed. A long drought cycle lowered the lake, cutting off the various groups from one another and isolating them. They could not swim up and down the coast (land projections and rocks) and they could not swim across the lake (first deep water hap predators and then such deep water that it was a very long swim with no food). Each evolved separately. Cichlid aficionados like me are paranoid about hybridization because this separate evolution is so unique and something worth being preserved. We still have a chance to have a slice of the lake in our tanks.and we want to preserve that option. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genus' under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m> com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfft674> com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU> com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi> .org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus> .org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46953	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

There was an article, recently published in Copiea, that gave the results of a study of two species whose populations over lapped and hybridization between the species. The study covered several different species in several locations. I'm not home right now, but when I make it back, I can look it up easily, as it was in one of the last few issues. The article is interesting, but many may find it boring with all the tables ad such and the technical language scientists are wont to use. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genus' under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl.com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46954	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Lenny, It was once believed that cross species hybridization would not occur, and, if it did, would lead to animals that were sterile. This idea has become sterile itself. It has been shown that the closer the species are related, the more likely they are to interbreed and not produce sterile offspring. When I look up the article I referenced earlier, it will show, if you read it, that some of what I am saying right now is true. The rest, well, you'll need to take my word on it, unless you have the time to track down the rest of the references. While I know it has been said that closely related species populations do not hybridize in the wild, I do not know if anyone has really shown whether that is true or not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid But see my last post in reply to Ray. The EASY cross-genera breeding simply isn't normal... so either the classification of the various Rift Lake species was done too zealously to create a bunch of new Genera instead of having them as species and sub-species within the same or only a few Genera or something else is wrong. It's simply not normal within the classification of the rest of the animal kingdom for this EASY cross-Genera breeding to be taking place with Rift Lake cichlids and any other fish/species that easily cross-Genera breed. As a matter of fact, there could even be problems with the relatively few cross-Genera breedings that do take place in the rest of the animal kingdom where, possibly, those species were mis-classified into separate Genera instead of possibly being within the same Genera and then being species and sub-species. The General rule is that cross-Genera breeding shouldn't happen which is why it's such a spectacle or anomaly when it does happen. If it is happening so commonly with these cichlids, then there's probably something wrong in the classification, IMO. I don't frequent the specialized Cichlid forums that often since I don't keep them but is this type of discussion ever discussed in those forums? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid What happened was the geography changed. A long drought cycle lowered the lake, cutting off the various groups from one another and isolating them. They could not swim up and down the coast (land projections and rocks) and they could not swim across the lake (first deep water hap predators and then such deep water that it was a very long swim with no food). Each evolved separately. Cichlid aficionados like me are paranoid about hybridization because this separate evolution is so unique and something worth being preserved. We still have a chance to have a slice of the lake in our tanks.and we want to preserve that option. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genus' under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m> com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfft674> com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU> com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi> .org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus> .org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46955	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

It seems I've seen "Copiea" before but I just Googled "copiea" and nothing of substance came up... such as a parent website... other than some older references to articles/abstracts published in Copiea. There does seem to be a Copiea channel on Metacafe, which have some *interesting* videos listed but nothing about fish... unless you consider the old joke about the blind man walking by the fish market actually being about fish. LOL (I'm not posting that link! You'll have to find that one on your own. ;-)) Here's a couple of links to OLD articles/abstracts, about actual fish, published in Copiea, apparently back in the 40's and 60's and republished or used in these scientific article abstracts. Systematics and Evolution of Lower Central American Cichlids ... Copiea 1966 (1966), pp. 773-802 http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1055790397904619 Threatened Fishes of The World: <Emphasis Type="Italic">Notropis ... Copiea 1947: 97-102. http://www.springerlink.com/index/N8120P8745115335.pdf So \\Steve//... what is Copiea? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid There was an article, recently published in Copiea, that gave the results of a study of two species whose populations over lapped and hybridization between the species. The study covered several different species in several locations. I'm not home right now, but when I make it back, I can look it up easily, as it was in one of the last few issues. The article is interesting, but many may find it boring with all the tables ad such and the technical language scientists are wont to use. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genera under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl.com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46956	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Lenny, I'll take the first part of your reply separately, and get back to reading the rest of your comments later, but I just want to get back to this first subject as soon as I can. I never said that we humans are decended from chimps, even if I did alude to the fact we are related. As higher primates, both us and chimps have branched off from a common ancester way back in time. Further, it was not us directly (as Homo sapiens) that branched off from this common earlier ancestor at the time when the chimps' ancestor (Paranthropus aethiopicus) branched off from this same predecessor, but one of our earlier ancestors (like an ancestor of Australopithicus afarensis) that we've continued to evolve from through subsequent improvements (such as Homo habilis, H. erectus, H. heidelbergensis and H. floresiensis). A common ancestor would have been way back in time, even before the development of any of the anthropoid species I mentioned above. Going back further in time, we have Sahelanthropus tchadensis at 7 million years ago as one of our earliest ancestors, followed by Orrorin tugenensis, then Aripithecus kadabba, A. ramidus and Australopithicus amamensis before Au. afarenis came on the scene at 3.5 million years ago as our first ancestors. Still, as we go back further in time, there reaches a point where chimpanzees, gorillas, bonabos and orangutans all branched off from a much earlier ancestor -- much as Malawi Cichlids have done in their early development -- the difference being that they developed as different species at a much faster rate than other fishes. Yet, they are all separate and distinct species, YET EVOLVING -- just as we are continually evolving. They're capable of breeding together as two different species, creating a hybrid of them both as they're related way back in time by a common ancestor. They seldom hybridize in nature as any species inately, by instinct, breed amonst themselves -- but when they do hybridize the resultant offspring (if not infertile) will almost always not survive UNLESS this hybrid is an improvement in survival of the shared envirornment of these two species, even though this is not the normal route of a species' evolving. Most often however, in the wild, the resultant offspring will prove to be inferior to the two species involved and will quickly fall by the wayside. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46957	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

It is discussed endlessly, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid But see my last post in reply to Ray. The EASY cross-genera breeding simply isn't normal... so either the classification of the various Rift Lake species was done too zealously to create a bunch of new Genera instead of having them as species and sub-species within the same or only a few Genera or something else is wrong. It's simply not normal within the classification of the rest of the animal kingdom for this EASY cross-Genera breeding to be taking place with Rift Lake cichlids and any other fish/species that easily cross-Genera breed. As a matter of fact, there could even be problems with the relatively few cross-Genera breedings that do take place in the rest of the animal kingdom where, possibly, those species were mis-classified into separate Genera instead of possibly being within the same Genera and then being species and sub-species. The General rule is that cross-Genera breeding shouldn't happen which is why it's such a spectacle or anomaly when it does happen. If it is happening so commonly with these cichlids, then there's probably something wrong in the classification, IMO. I don't frequent the specialized Cichlid forums that often since I don't keep them but is this type of discussion ever discussed in those forums? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid What happened was the geography changed. A long drought cycle lowered the lake, cutting off the various groups from one another and isolating them. They could not swim up and down the coast (land projections and rocks) and they could not swim across the lake (first deep water hap predators and then such deep water that it was a very long swim with no food). Each evolved separately. Cichlid aficionados like me are paranoid about hybridization because this separate evolution is so unique and something worth being preserved. We still have a chance to have a slice of the lake in our tanks.and we want to preserve that option. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genus' under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m> com/qy7t3m> com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfft674> com/yfft674> com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU> com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU> com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi> .org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi> .org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus> .org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus> .org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46958	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

I have several of Ad Konings books on Malawi and one on Tangs. Are you looking for something specific? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid It seems I've seen "Copiea" before but I just Googled "copiea" and nothing of substance came up... such as a parent website... other than some older references to articles/abstracts published in Copiea. There does seem to be a Copiea channel on Metacafe, which have some *interesting* videos listed but nothing about fish... unless you consider the old joke about the blind man walking by the fish market actually being about fish. LOL (I'm not posting that link! You'll have to find that one on your own. ;-)) Here's a couple of links to OLD articles/abstracts, about actual fish, published in Copiea, apparently back in the 40's and 60's and republished or used in these scientific article abstracts. Systematics and Evolution of Lower Central American Cichlids ... Copiea 1966 (1966), pp. 773-802 http://linkinghub. <http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1055790397904619> elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1055790397904619 Threatened Fishes of The World: <Emphasis Type="Italic">Notropis ... Copiea 1947: 97-102. http://www.springer <http://www.springerlink.com/index/N8120P8745115335.pdf> link.com/index/N8120P8745115335.pdf So \\Steve//... what is Copiea? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid There was an article, recently published in Copiea, that gave the results of a study of two species whose populations over lapped and hybridization between the species. The study covered several different species in several locations. I'm not home right now, but when I make it back, I can look it up easily, as it was in one of the last few issues. The article is interesting, but many may find it boring with all the tables ad such and the technical language scientists are wont to use. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genera under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m> com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfft674> com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU> com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi> .org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus> .org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

\\Steve// said: "While I know it has been said that closely related species populations do not hybridize in the wild, I do not know if anyone has really shown whether that is true or not." That's what I'm saying in a LOT more words. How would modern man know if these so-called different Genera and Species of Rift Lake cichlids aren't really just a bunch of hybrids of only a couple of species in the first place and then the same-looking hybrids started hanging around each other and breeding to create more of the same looking hybrids... as is done by most species in the animal kingdom, including with us humans (white, black, english, spanish, jocks, geeks, etc., etc. almost always hang out with people that *look* the same as they do) with exceptions occurring often enough that a new mix happens and is kind of a social outcast since it's *different* but then finds other hybrids just like him/her (I'm still talking about fish here) and they start hanging out together and breeding to create more of the same-looking group of hybrids, only to be found by modern man thousands of years later who decides they are all separate Genus and Species when they really are just a bunch of mutts that looked alike and started to hang out and breed with each other... and there's nothing wrong with mutts... which, IMO is best memorialized by Bill Murray in Stripes! (START SNIP) "John Winger: Cut it out! Cut it out! Cut it out! What the hell's the matter with you? Stupid! We're all very different people. We're not Watusi. We're not Spartans. We're Americans, with a capital 'A', huh? You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog. We're mutts! Here's proof: his nose is cold! But there's no animal that's more faithful, that's more loyal, more loveable than the mutt. Who saw "Old Yeller?" Who cried when Old Yeller got shot at the end? [raises his hand] John Winger: *sarcastically* Nobody cried when Old Yeller got shot? I'm sure. [hands are reluctantly raised] John Winger: I cried my eyes out. So we're all dogfaces, we're all very, very different, but there is one thing that we all have in common: we were all stupid enough to enlist in the Army. We're mutants. There's something wrong with us, something very, very wrong with us. Something seriously wrong with us - we're soldiers. But we're American soldiers! We've been kicking ass for 200 years! We're 10 and 1! Now we don't have to worry about whether or not we practiced. We don't have to worry about whether Captain Stillman wants to have us hung. All we have to do is to be the great American fighting soldier that is inside each one of us. Now do what I do, and say what I say. And make me proud." (END SNIP) Now I feel the need to start marching and chanting... "Boom, chucka, lucka, lucka... All of the above can be seen in Part 8 of 12 starting at the 6:50 minute mark here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYtBSOfMSMg and at the beginning of Part 9 of 12 here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RigrzPsL9c God, I love that movie!!!! LOL Sorry... I went off on one of my well-referenced tangents again! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, It was once believed that cross species hybridization would not occur, and, if it did, would lead to animals that were sterile. This idea has become sterile itself. It has been shown that the closer the species are related, the more likely they are to interbreed and not produce sterile offspring. When I look up the article I referenced earlier, it will show, if you read it, that some of what I am saying right now is true. The rest, well, you'll need to take my word on it, unless you have the time to track down the rest of the references. While I know it has been said that closely related species populations do not hybridize in the wild, I do not know if anyone has really shown whether that is true or not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 9:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid But see my last post in reply to Ray. The EASY cross-genera breeding simply isn't normal... so either the classification of the various Rift Lake species was done too zealously to create a bunch of new Genera instead of having them as species and sub-species within the same or only a few Genera or something else is wrong. It's simply not normal within the classification of the rest of the animal kingdom for this EASY cross-Genera breeding to be taking place with Rift Lake cichlids and any other fish/species that easily cross-Genera breed. As a matter of fact, there could even be problems with the relatively few cross-Genera breedings that do take place in the rest of the animal kingdom where, possibly, those species were mis-classified into separate Genera instead of possibly being within the same Genera and then being species and sub-species. The General rule is that cross-Genera breeding shouldn't happen which is why it's such a spectacle or anomaly when it does happen. If it is happening so commonly with these cichlids, then there's probably something wrong in the classification, IMO. I don't frequent the specialized Cichlid forums that often since I don't keep them but is this type of discussion ever discussed in those forums? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid What happened was the geography changed. A long drought cycle lowered the lake, cutting off the various groups from one another and isolating them. They could not swim up and down the coast (land projections and rocks) and they could not swim across the lake (first deep water hap predators and then such deep water that it was a very long swim with no food). Each evolved separately. Cichlid aficionados like me are paranoid about hybridization because this separate evolution is so unique and something worth being preserved. We still have a chance to have a slice of the lake in our tanks.and we want to preserve that option. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genus' under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m> com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfft674> com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU> com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi> .org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus> .org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46960	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Ray, As \\Steve// mentioned in a previous post, how do we know they seldom hybridize in nature or if they did hybridize hundreds of years ago? There is still the issue that cross-Genera breeding is VERY rare in ALL of nature but for some reason these fish are able to so easily break this rule? I have a feeling that one day in the future, some scientist or a group of them are going to re-classify all of these different Genera, that so easily inter-breed, into one Genera, which would then explain why they inter-breed so easily and it wouldn't be trashing the principle that cross-Genera breeding is not supposed to happen. As far as the rest of your post about the *evolution* or changing of humans... two words... Adam & Eve.... OK.. two words and a symbol! I don't believe the theory of evolution about man having evolved from some type of ape or other lower life form. ;-) You said, in an earlier reply and I chose not to reply to it at the time, but I'll bring it up now, "What you are saying essentially is that while we (Humans) have evolved from apes as a different species, that we are just "hybrids" and that we should readily breed with Chimps because of that. Your thinking is flawed in this line of speciation." I'm not sure where you thought that I thought that humans evolved from apes, etc., as I do not believe I ever said or even implied that since it's something I simply do not believe. I'm an "Intelligent Design" kind of guy and because of this Intelligent Design, rampant cross-genera breeding isn't supposed to happen! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, I'll take the first part of your reply separately, and get back to reading the rest of your comments later, but I just want to get back to this first subject as soon as I can. I never said that we humans are decended from chimps, even if I did alude to the fact we are related. As higher primates, both us and chimps have branched off from a common ancester way back in time. Further, it was not us directly (as Homo sapiens) that branched off from this common earlier ancestor at the time when the chimps' ancestor (Paranthropus aethiopicus) branched off from this same predecessor, but one of our earlier ancestors (like an ancestor of Australopithicus afarensis) that we've continued to evolve from through subsequent improvements (such as Homo habilis, H. erectus, H. heidelbergensis and H. floresiensis). A common ancestor would have been way back in time, even before the development of any of the anthropoid species I mentioned above. Going back further in time, we have Sahelanthropus tchadensis at 7 million years ago as one of our earliest ancestors, followed by Orrorin tugenensis, then Aripithecus kadabba, A. ramidus and Australopithicus amamensis before Au. afarenis came on the scene at 3.5 million years ago as our first ancestors. Still, as we go back further in time, there reaches a point where chimpanzees, gorillas, bonabos and orangutans all branched off from a much earlier ancestor -- much as Malawi Cichlids have done in their early development -- the difference being that they developed as different species at a much faster rate than other fishes. Yet, they are all separate and distinct species, YET EVOLVING -- just as we are continually evolving. They're capable of breeding together as two different species, creating a hybrid of them both as they're related way back in time by a common ancestor. They seldom hybridize in nature as any species inately, by instinct, breed amonst themselves -- but when they do hybridize the resultant offspring (if not infertile) will almost always not survive UNLESS this hybrid is an improvement in survival of the shared envirornment of these two species, even though this is not the normal route of a species' evolving. Most often however, in the wild, the resultant offspring will prove to be inferior to the two species involved and will quickly fall by the wayside. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46961	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

I was looking for the Copiea article that \\Steve// mentioned below my reply. Apparently, Copiea isn't online. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I have several of Ad Konings books on Malawi and one on Tangs. Are you looking for something specific? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid It seems I've seen "Copiea" before but I just Googled "copiea" and nothing of substance came up... such as a parent website... other than some older references to articles/abstracts published in Copiea. There does seem to be a Copiea channel on Metacafe, which have some *interesting* videos listed but nothing about fish... unless you consider the old joke about the blind man walking by the fish market actually being about fish. LOL (I'm not posting that link! You'll have to find that one on your own. ;-)) Here's a couple of links to OLD articles/abstracts, about actual fish, published in Copiea, apparently back in the 40's and 60's and republished or used in these scientific article abstracts. Systematics and Evolution of Lower Central American Cichlids ... Copiea 1966 (1966), pp. 773-802 http://linkinghub. <http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1055790397904619> elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1055790397904619 Threatened Fishes of The World: <Emphasis Type="Italic">Notropis ... Copiea 1947: 97-102. http://www.springer <http://www.springerlink.com/index/N8120P8745115335.pdf> link.com/index/N8120P8745115335.pdf So \\Steve//... what is Copiea? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid There was an article, recently published in Copiea, that gave the results of a study of two species whose populations over lapped and hybridization between the species. The study covered several different species in several locations. I'm not home right now, but when I make it back, I can look it up easily, as it was in one of the last few issues. The article is interesting, but many may find it boring with all the tables ad such and the technical language scientists are wont to use. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genera under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m> com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/yfft674> com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU> com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi> .org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus> .org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46962	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Copeia, some issues, can be found at www.asihonline.org. Some articles may be available without being a member of ASIH, others not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid It seems I've seen "Copiea" before but I just Googled "copiea" and nothing of substance came up... such as a parent website... other than some older references to articles/abstracts published in Copiea. There does seem to be a Copiea channel on Metacafe, which have some *interesting* videos listed but nothing about fish... unless you consider the old joke about the blind man walking by the fish market actually being about fish. LOL (I'm not posting that link! You'll have to find that one on your own. ;-)) Here's a couple of links to OLD articles/abstracts, about actual fish, published in Copiea, apparently back in the 40's and 60's and republished or used in these scientific article abstracts. Systematics and Evolution of Lower Central American Cichlids ... Copiea 1966 (1966), pp. 773-802 http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1055790397904619 Threatened Fishes of The World: <Emphasis Type="Italic">Notropis ... Copiea 1947: 97-102. http://www.springerlink.com/index/N8120P8745115335.pdf So \\Steve//... what is Copiea? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid There was an article, recently published in Copiea, that gave the results of a study of two species whose populations over lapped and hybridization between the species. The study covered several different species in several locations. I'm not home right now, but when I make it back, I can look it up easily, as it was in one of the last few issues. The article is interesting, but many may find it boring with all the tables ad such and the technical language scientists are wont to use. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genera under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl.com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46963	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Okay Lenny, now back to the second part of your post. To begin with, all species, and I'm talking about any animal (fish,, bird, mammal, etc.) -- including Malawi Cichlids -- have a natural propensity in preferring to breed first and foremost within their species, or putting it another way, with another similar living entity as close to their genetic make up as their own -- even going so far with some lower species as to have the innate instinct to prefer their own morph if at all possible, but that preference may be variable depending on the choice of availability. Lower animals, such as more closely related fish such as are Malawi Cichlids, are know to occasionally cross-breed in the wild, but this behavior is far from being wanton as it seems you are suggesting. It it were, there would no longer be any separate species that we could identify as such, if they've been interbreeding since the time they've been evolving. The comparatively fewer times that they may hybridize, the resultant young are not an improvement enough to overtake either of the two parent species, in the environment in which they need to compete in but are most often inferior to both parent species. As they show no improvement and there is no benefit over either of the parent species in surviving any better and procreating a new species having the genetic make-up of both partent species, but only being shown to be less successful, these hybrid most often perish -- either by being eaten, or out-competed by the true-species' spawns of fry that they need to survive with. At those rare times when such hybrids prove to be assets and improvements in survival and adaptation to their environment even more so than either parent species, they will in time displace at least one or perhaps both of their parent species in that environment as then, the parent species will have been out-competed. This is one method of evolution, even if it's not nearly the most prevalent. By far, the most normal process of evolution occurs when a mutation within the species proves to be an improvement over the species it sprang out of and continued to be an improvement in out-performing its predecessors in their environment. After all, this is how we developed. In the artificial environment of the aquarium where two closely related species are confined without the opposite sex of their own species, there then is no longer much choice in breeding except to breed with a related species if there is an individual of this other species available for breeding, since their similar, if not same, genetic relationship makes this possible. But as this does occur in the artificial environment of the aquarium, being confined together by the hand of man, this of course is not natural nor could it be any further removed from the wild environment. Even though many Malawi Cichlids may look superficially similar, the identification of separate species is not only made by appearance (shape, size, color and pattern), but skeletal structure and dentition play a MAJOR role in distinguishing a species. Further, a species teeth (shape, size, etc.) denotes the specific environment they evolved in and the specific niche they've filled in it, in their feeding habits. The fact that these somewhat closely related fish can interbreed readily when maintained artificially by the hobbyist in confined conditions cannot be compared to hibridization in higher animals, since the lower on the scale of evolution an animal (such as a fish) is, the easier this possibility becomes. Even Goldfish and Koi will interbreed when set up in a pond together, yet we have to agree they are two different (but related) species. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46964	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/27/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Ahhh.. you changed the spelling on me in your latest reply. In your first reply you had "CopIEa" and this time "CopEIa". Maybe that's why I ended up at the link to the fish market joke vids. ;-) Also, your link didn't work for me, but I do see http://www.asihcopeiaonline.org which I presume to be and looks to be the same place. Looking at the Archives link, it looks like the issues from 2000 to present are available but earlier issues need an ASIH membership at JSTOR. Only article abstracts are available to everyone though but it looks like some full articles are as well. I looked at each of the four issues for 2009 and the index but didn't see any articles that might shed some light on this topic. Of course, some of their article names might leave some scratching their heads and saying "What does that mean?". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Copeia, some issues, can be found at www.asihonline.org. Some articles may be available without being a member of ASIH, others not. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid It seems I've seen "Copiea" before but I just Googled "copiea" and nothing of substance came up... such as a parent website... other than some older references to articles/abstracts published in Copiea. There does seem to be a Copiea channel on Metacafe, which have some *interesting* videos listed but nothing about fish... unless you consider the old joke about the blind man walking by the fish market actually being about fish. LOL (I'm not posting that link! You'll have to find that one on your own. ;-)) Here's a couple of links to OLD articles/abstracts, about actual fish, published in Copiea, apparently back in the 40's and 60's and republished or used in these scientific article abstracts. Systematics and Evolution of Lower Central American Cichlids ... Copiea 1966 (1966), pp. 773-802 http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1055790397904619 Threatened Fishes of The World: <Emphasis Type="Italic">Notropis ... Copiea 1947: 97-102. http://www.springerlink.com/index/N8120P8745115335.pdf So \\Steve//... what is Copiea? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid There was an article, recently published in Copiea, that gave the results of a study of two species whose populations over lapped and hybridization between the species. The study covered several different species in several locations. I'm not home right now, but when I make it back, I can look it up easily, as it was in one of the last few issues. The article is interesting, but many may find it boring with all the tables ad such and the technical language scientists are wont to use. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid If that's the case... and I'm guessing this is another scientific working theory since nobody has been around for the thousands of years that I'm guessing you are talking about... then really all of the so-called pure species coming out of the rift lakes are actually just hybrids themselves so I'm not sure why cichlid aficionados are so paranoid about hybridization? If they can inter-breed so easily in the wild, then there will be a constant supply of *new* species being found but they are really just hybrids of two or more previously classified species. I realize that the species will tend to congregate together and breed within their own species for the most part but you know there's always gonna be the few guys and gals that get a Tiger streak in them and decide to "take a walk on the wild side".... and voila'... a new species! ;-) Either that... or there shouldn't be so many different Genera under the Cichlidae Family since the general rule is that it's far more difficult for species to breed when outside of the same Genus. It happens on occasion with Goldfish and Koi (both from the Cyprinidae Family but a different Genus) and also rarely with a False Killer Whale and a Dolphin (both from the Delphinidae Family but a different Genus), etc. but it doesn't happen with very many species outside of their own Genus. Of course, there's an exception to every rule which explains this constantly changing species... http://tinyurl.com/qy7t3m OR http://tinyurl.com/yfft674 So.. now how many of you are humming this tune? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1P1tpz5XiU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All cichlids in the rift lakes come from a common ancestor in each lake. Epochally speaking, this speciation has occurred over a very short period of time, so many of the fish are still fairly closely related, and thus find it easy to breed with another that is not of their species. In other areas, where speciation has happened over a longer period of time, it is less likely for this to happen, though it can and will, given the proper circumstances, with some species. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Cross breeding within the same Genus is very possible. Cross breeding within the same Family is MUCH less likely but still possible. I've read conflicting posts from people as to whether you have mixed fish or not so you might want to wait a little longer to see how the juvis develop further so you will be more certain if you have one or two species. While I do not rely on Wikipedia very often for specific fish information, they are one page that does list the scientific hierarchy of the various animals that they have pages on. In your case.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maylandia_lombardoi Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Subfamily: Pseudocrenilabrinae Genus: Maylandia (disputed) Species: M. lombardoi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labidochromis_caeruleus Order: Perciformes Family: Cichlidae Genus: Labidochromis Species: L. caeruleus As you see, both fish are from the same Family (Cichlidae) but different Genus', although the Genus of the Kenyi is still being debated, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it would be moved into the Labidochromis Genus. Since they are from the same Family, there is always a chance they can cross breed but it's not as likely than if they were from the same Genus. Hopefully, your males will also be Pseudo./Maylandia lombardoi and you won't have to worry about things as much... except for tank size! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Is mating between speicies possible in African Cichlids? To be more specific, is there any possibility that these two species I have will breed? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46965	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Just in answer to your last sentence since it's getting late... Yes, Koi and goldfish will cross-Genera breed but you don't see a lot of other cross-Genera breeding in the Cyprinidae Family. I suspect, based on my thoughts today, that these fish maybe should be in the same Genus since their offspring often resort to looking more like a common carp rather than either of the parents anyhow which brings up the possibility that maybe some man-made cross breeding was done hundreds or thousands of years ago to create Koi and goldfish in the first place. ;-) For there to be so much cross-Genera breeding in the Cichlidae family, in the Rift Lake fish, is what leads me to think that there might have been some overzealous creation of too many Genera during the classification. They should have probably used less Genera and then relied on species and sub-species which then would fit more within the guidelines of limited or preferably NO cross-Genera breeding. It doesn't mean that these fish wouldn't hybridize either in nature or in aquaria but it just means that when there is a cross-Genera hybrid, it would be an anomaly rather than an expectation.... or that possibly there was a mistake in the creation of separate Genera for the two fish in the first place. My initial post way back at the beginning of this topic was that cross-Genera breeding shouldn't happen at all but I understand man can and will make mistakes at classifying fish from time to time but the two species (lab's and kenyi's) and apparently many other Rift Lake species have such dramatically different Genera, and yet, according to so many follow-up posts, that for them to so easily cross-Genera breed still seems like a BIG mistake in classifying them to me. Even if many of these fish were re-classified into the same Genus, attempts should still be made to keep them from hybridizing just like with the Koi and goldfish example above. In closing, the good thing is that for rookies that do inadvertently cross-breed fish, whether Koi and goldfish or Rift Lake cichlids, they generally will not be selling or trading the offspring so the bigger risk still lies with nature or even more so with wholesalers and breeders who do not take precautions, rather than worrying about the lone hobbyist such as Noura or any other hobbyist who does not have plans to go into the fish breeding business even if at the hobby level. Now, if Noura is thinking about breeding these fish to sell their offspring, then much more care should be taken to insure they are properly identified. Good night John-boy. Good night ma. Good night pa. Good night Ray. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Okay Lenny, now back to the second part of your post. To begin with, all species, and I'm talking about any animal (fish,, bird, mammal, etc.) -- including Malawi Cichlids -- have a natural propensity in preferring to breed first and foremost within their species, or putting it another way, with another similar living entity as close to their genetic make up as their own -- even going so far with some lower species as to have the innate instinct to prefer their own morph if at all possible, but that preference may be variable depending on the choice of availability. Lower animals, such as more closely related fish such as are Malawi Cichlids, are know to occasionally cross-breed in the wild, but this behavior is far from being wanton as it seems you are suggesting. It it were, there would no longer be any separate species that we could identify as such, if they've been interbreeding since the time they've been evolving. The comparatively fewer times that they may hybridize, the resultant young are not an improvement enough to overtake either of the two parent species, in the environment in which they need to compete in but are most often inferior to both parent species. As they show no improvement and there is no benefit over either of the parent species in surviving any better and procreating a new species having the genetic make-up of both partent species, but only being shown to be less successful, these hybrid most often perish -- either by being eaten, or out-competed by the true-species' spawns of fry that they need to survive with. At those rare times when such hybrids prove to be assets and improvements in survival and adaptation to their environment even more so than either parent species, they will in time displace at least one or perhaps both of their parent species in that environment as then, the parent species will have been out-competed. This is one method of evolution, even if it's not nearly the most prevalent. By far, the most normal process of evolution occurs when a mutation within the species proves to be an improvement over the species it sprang out of and continued to be an improvement in out-performing its predecessors in their environment. After all, this is how we developed. In the artificial environment of the aquarium where two closely related species are confined without the opposite sex of their own species, there then is no longer much choice in breeding except to breed with a related species if there is an individual of this other species available for breeding, since their similar, if not same, genetic relationship makes this possible. But as this does occur in the artificial environment of the aquarium, being confined together by the hand of man, this of course is not natural nor could it be any further removed from the wild environment. Even though many Malawi Cichlids may look superficially similar, the identification of separate species is not only made by appearance (shape, size, color and pattern), but skeletal structure and dentition play a MAJOR role in distinguishing a species. Further, a species teeth (shape, size, etc.) denotes the specific environment they evolved in and the specific niche they've filled in it, in their feeding habits. The fact that these somewhat closely related fish can interbreed readily when maintained artificially by the hobbyist in confined conditions cannot be compared to hibridization in higher animals, since the lower on the scale of evolution an animal (such as a fish) is, the easier this possibility becomes. Even Goldfish and Koi will interbreed when set up in a pond together, yet we have to agree they are two different (but related) species. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46966	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid- Need a quick answer

Yes I can trade them. How many Yellow Labs can I home per square foot of the tank's bottom? I'm asking for a general rule of thumb. I admit that I'll trade them with a heavy heart, because I loved those magnificent bright blue babies, but would also hate to see them turn into big bullies monsters later, and cause me and their mates only misory. The LFS has only these two species as babies, and it's really rare to see this small size of any African Cichlids here, I always find 3"+ . Thanks for the advise Ray. I hope someone can reply to how many Yellow Labs can I get soon. I'm going to the fish store TODAY before it runs out of those Labs. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Kenyi Cichlid Noura, Can you return the two Ps. kenyi and trade them for two Yellow Labs, and purchase several more of these Yellow Labs? As P. kenyi get to be a larger species (5 + "), the males of this species will stake out a much larger territory than will Yellow Labs, for instance, and will make life difficult for the smaller species in a 34" long tank. The height of an Mbuna tank is not as much of a concern, it's the bottom area that they need. A tank of only Yellow Labs would work well in your size tank, besides your not having to be concerned with hybrids. Then, when your Yellow Labs breed, you could readily sell them to your LFS or anyone else without having them rejected. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46967	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

"Now, if Noura is thinking about breeding these fish to sell their offspring, then much more care should be taken to insure they are properly identified." oh no, no no no, I'm not dreaming of that, the whole thing is that I always wanted an African Cichlid tank, and since I will have a species tank it will be very interesting to watch them breed, and if the offspring survived and grew then I'll think about what to do with them. It's the pleasure of following the breeding stages what I'm hoping to get. Anyway, i just came back from the LFS that sold me the four baby cichlids, he didn't take the Kenyis back, my timing was wrong since he was lifting four dead oscars from their tank when I came in, they were dead because a customer gave him a sick oscar probably. I couldn't have chosen a worst timing even if I tried! So I bought two more Yellow Labs, and I'm planning to give the two Kenyis for free to another LFS as soon as they start showing agression or get bigger. Till then , I'll have the 4 Labs and 2 Kenyi's in the 34" new tank with rocks and caves, and enjoy the temporary blue-yellow view. Is that a reasonable idea? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Just in answer to your last sentence since it's getting late... Yes, Koi and goldfish will cross-Genera breed but you don't see a lot of other cross-Genera breeding in the Cyprinidae Family. I suspect, based on my thoughts today, that these fish maybe should be in the same Genus since their offspring often resort to looking more like a common carp rather than either of the parents anyhow which brings up the possibility that maybe some man-made cross breeding was done hundreds or thousands of years ago to create Koi and goldfish in the first place. ;-) For there to be so much cross-Genera breeding in the Cichlidae family, in the Rift Lake fish, is what leads me to think that there might have been some overzealous creation of too many Genera during the classification. They should have probably used less Genera and then relied on species and sub-species which then would fit more within the guidelines of limited or preferably NO cross-Genera breeding. It doesn't mean that these fish wouldn't hybridize either in nature or in aquaria but it just means that when there is a cross-Genera hybrid, it would be an anomaly rather than an expectation.... or that possibly there was a mistake in the creation of separate Genera for the two fish in the first place. My initial post way back at the beginning of this topic was that cross-Genera breeding shouldn't happen at all but I understand man can and will make mistakes at classifying fish from time to time but the two species (lab's and kenyi's) and apparently many other Rift Lake species have such dramatically different Genera, and yet, according to so many follow-up posts, that for them to so easily cross-Genera breed still seems like a BIG mistake in classifying them to me. Even if many of these fish were re-classified into the same Genus, attempts should still be made to keep them from hybridizing just like with the Koi and goldfish example above. In closing, the good thing is that for rookies that do inadvertently cross-breed fish, whether Koi and goldfish or Rift Lake cichlids, they generally will not be selling or trading the offspring so the bigger risk still lies with nature or even more so with wholesalers and breeders who do not take precautions, rather than worrying about the lone hobbyist such as Noura or any other hobbyist who does not have plans to go into the fish breeding business even if at the hobby level. Now, if Noura is thinking about breeding these fish to sell their offspring, then much more care should be taken to insure they are properly identified. Good night John-boy. Good night ma. Good night pa. Good night Ray. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Okay Lenny, now back to the second part of your post. To begin with, all species, and I'm talking about any animal (fish,, bird, mammal, etc.) -- including Malawi Cichlids -- have a natural propensity in preferring to breed first and foremost within their species, or putting it another way, with another similar living entity as close to their genetic make up as their own -- even going so far with some lower species as to have the innate instinct to prefer their own morph if at all possible, but that preference may be variable depending on the choice of availability. Lower animals, such as more closely related fish such as are Malawi Cichlids, are know to occasionally cross-breed in the wild, but this behavior is far from being wanton as it seems you are suggesting. It it were, there would no longer be any separate species that we could identify as such, if they've been interbreeding since the time they've been evolving. The comparatively fewer times that they may hybridize, the resultant young are not an improvement enough to overtake either of the two parent species, in the environment in which they need to compete in but are most often inferior to both parent species. As they show no improvement and there is no benefit over either of the parent species in surviving any better and procreating a new species having the genetic make-up of both partent species, but only being shown to be less successful, these hybrid most often perish -- either by being eaten, or out-competed by the true-species' spawns of fry that they need to survive with. At those rare times when such hybrids prove to be assets and improvements in survival and adaptation to their environment even more so than either parent species, they will in time displace at least one or perhaps both of their parent species in that environment as then, the parent species will have been out-competed. This is one method of evolution, even if it's not nearly the most prevalent. By far, the most normal process of evolution occurs when a mutation within the species proves to be an improvement over the species it sprang out of and continued to be an improvement in out-performing its predecessors in their environment. After all, this is how we developed. In the artificial environment of the aquarium where two closely related species are confined without the opposite sex of their own species, there then is no longer much choice in breeding except to breed with a related species if there is an individual of this other species available for breeding, since their similar, if not same, genetic relationship makes this possible. But as this does occur in the artificial environment of the aquarium, being confined together by the hand of man, this of course is not natural nor could it be any further removed from the wild environment. Even though many Malawi Cichlids may look superficially similar, the identification of separate species is not only made by appearance (shape, size, color and pattern), but skeletal structure and dentition play a MAJOR role in distinguishing a species. Further, a species teeth (shape, size, etc.) denotes the specific environment they evolved in and the specific niche they've filled in it, in their feeding habits. The fact that these somewhat closely related fish can interbreed readily when maintained artificially by the hobbyist in confined conditions cannot be compared to hibridization in higher animals, since the lower on the scale of evolution an animal (such as a fish) is, the easier this possibility becomes. Even Goldfish and Koi will interbreed when set up in a pond together, yet we have to agree they are two different (but related) species. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46968	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Sorry I meant 34"X14" LONG. Forgive my poor English! ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:41 PM Subject: Re:Kenyi Cichlid I've ordered a cutom-made a 34" x 14" tall. It's already built and only needs rock decorations and a few electronic equipments. ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Also tank size will make a difference, not sure we know the size of the tank yet? For example, a 48" x 18" tank with 1m:7f of each species, (kenyi and lab) would work although the yellow male kenyi and the yellow male lab might fight. But those two fish as individuals in a 30" tank I would expect not to work when the fish mature in about 8 months. The food sounds decent given your difficulty in obtaining supplies. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46969	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Lenny, When it comes to taxonomy, there are two groups--the lumpers and the splitters. The lumpers like to take two or more species and place them together as one species. The splitters are those who make fine distinctions and would take the species created by the lumpers and make them into two or more species. Now that many of them are doing DNA studies, taxonomy is changing, as they use the results of DNA testing to determine species. However, I do not know, nor have I seen, any definition of what differences in DNA would determine exactly when to erect a species grouping of fish, or any animal. There is also a relatively new school of thought about all this, known as cladistics, which is supposed to help, and what this does is to use various characteristics to place fish in a hierarchy showing relationships between species of the same genus, and, though I have not seen it, larger groupings (genus, etc.). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Ray, As \\Steve// mentioned in a previous post, how do we know they seldom hybridize in nature or if they did hybridize hundreds of years ago? There is still the issue that cross-Genera breeding is VERY rare in ALL of nature but for some reason these fish are able to so easily break this rule? I have a feeling that one day in the future, some scientist or a group of them are going to re-classify all of these different Genera, that so easily inter-breed, into one Genera, which would then explain why they inter-breed so easily and it wouldn't be trashing the principle that cross-Genera breeding is not supposed to happen. As far as the rest of your post about the *evolution* or changing of humans... two words... Adam & Eve.... OK.. two words and a symbol! I don't believe the theory of evolution about man having evolved from some type of ape or other lower life form. ;-) You said, in an earlier reply and I chose not to reply to it at the time, but I'll bring it up now, "What you are saying essentially is that while we (Humans) have evolved from apes as a different species, that we are just "hybrids" and that we should readily breed with Chimps because of that. Your thinking is flawed in this line of speciation." I'm not sure where you thought that I thought that humans evolved from apes, etc., as I do not believe I ever said or even implied that since it's something I simply do not believe. I'm an "Intelligent Design" kind of guy and because of this Intelligent Design, rampant cross-genera breeding isn't supposed to happen! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, I'll take the first part of your reply separately, and get back to reading the rest of your comments later, but I just want to get back to this first subject as soon as I can. I never said that we humans are decended from chimps, even if I did alude to the fact we are related. As higher primates, both us and chimps have branched off from a common ancester way back in time. Further, it was not us directly (as Homo sapiens) that branched off from this common earlier ancestor at the time when the chimps' ancestor (Paranthropus aethiopicus) branched off from this same predecessor, but one of our earlier ancestors (like an ancestor of Australopithicus afarensis) that we've continued to evolve from through subsequent improvements (such as Homo habilis, H. erectus, H. heidelbergensis and H. floresiensis). A common ancestor would have been way back in time, even before the development of any of the anthropoid species I mentioned above. Going back further in time, we have Sahelanthropus tchadensis at 7 million years ago as one of our earliest ancestors, followed by Orrorin tugenensis, then Aripithecus kadabba, A. ramidus and Australopithicus amamensis before Au. afarenis came on the scene at 3.5 million years ago as our first ancestors. Still, as we go back further in time, there reaches a point where chimpanzees, gorillas, bonabos and orangutans all branched off from a much earlier ancestor -- much as Malawi Cichlids have done in their early development -- the difference being that they developed as different species at a much faster rate than other fishes. Yet, they are all separate and distinct species, YET EVOLVING -- just as we are continually evolving. They're capable of breeding together as two different species, creating a hybrid of them both as they're related way back in time by a common ancestor. They seldom hybridize in nature as any species inately, by instinct, breed amonst themselves -- but when they do hybridize the resultant offspring (if not infertile) will almost always not survive UNLESS this hybrid is an improvement in survival of the shared envirornment of these two species, even though this is not the normal route of a species' evolving. Most often however, in the wild, the resultant offspring will prove to be inferior to the two species involved and will quickly fall by the wayside. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46970	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Ray, The study I mentioned earlier, and hopefully will be able to look up when I get home later today, is centered on overlapping populations of fish. From the little readings I have done on rift lake cichlids, it seems that there is not much overlapping of similar species, which would drastically decrease the opportunity for cross breeding by these fish. Also, for interbreeding in the wild, at least some of the cues of males and females would need to be present in both participants for them to even be inclined to breed., By this, I mean external characteristics, such as egg spots, and other color cues, and similar courtship behaviors. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Okay Lenny, now back to the second part of your post. To begin with, all species, and I'm talking about any animal (fish,, bird, mammal, etc.) -- including Malawi Cichlids -- have a natural propensity in preferring to breed first and foremost within their species, or putting it another way, with another similar living entity as close to their genetic make up as their own -- even going so far with some lower species as to have the innate instinct to prefer their own morph if at all possible, but that preference may be variable depending on the choice of availability. Lower animals, such as more closely related fish such as are Malawi Cichlids, are know to occasionally cross-breed in the wild, but this behavior is far from being wanton as it seems you are suggesting. It it were, there would no longer be any separate species that we could identify as such, if they've been interbreeding since the time they've been evolving. The comparatively fewer times that they may hybridize, the resultant young are not an improvement enough to overtake either of the two parent species, in the environment in which they need to compete in but are most often inferior to both parent species. As they show no improvement and there is no benefit over either of the parent species in surviving any better and procreating a new species having the genetic make-up of both partent species, but only being shown to be less successful, these hybrid most often perish -- either by being eaten, or out-competed by the true-species' spawns of fry that they need to survive with. At those rare times when such hybrids prove to be assets and improvements in survival and adaptation to their environment even more so than either parent species, they will in time displace at least one or perhaps both of their parent species in that environment as then, the parent species will have been out-competed. This is one method of evolution, even if it's not nearly the most prevalent. By far, the most normal process of evolution occurs when a mutation within the species proves to be an improvement over the species it sprang out of and continued to be an improvement in out-performing its predecessors in their environment. After all, this is how we developed. In the artificial environment of the aquarium where two closely related species are confined without the opposite sex of their own species, there then is no longer much choice in breeding except to breed with a related species if there is an individual of this other species available for breeding, since their similar, if not same, genetic relationship makes this possible. But as this does occur in the artificial environment of the aquarium, being confined together by the hand of man, this of course is not natural nor could it be any further removed from the wild environment. Even though many Malawi Cichlids may look superficially similar, the identification of separate species is not only made by appearance (shape, size, color and pattern), but skeletal structure and dentition play a MAJOR role in distinguishing a species. Further, a species teeth (shape, size, etc.) denotes the specific environment they evolved in and the specific niche they've filled in it, in their feeding habits. The fact that these somewhat closely related fish can interbreed readily when maintained artificially by the hobbyist in confined conditions cannot be compared to hibridization in higher animals, since the lower on the scale of evolution an animal (such as a fish) is, the easier this possibility becomes. Even Goldfish and Koi will interbreed when set up in a pond together, yet we have to agree they are two different (but related) species. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46971	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid- Need a quick answer

Labs like to be in groups of 5 and that should work in a 34" tank. You might want to get some extras if they are babies in case you have too many males as they mature. While having only one male for labs is less critical than for kenyi, you also would not want 5 males. In a 34" tank you will probably be better off with only one. I'd get 9-10 of them and return extra males and possibly females as they mature so you end up with 5. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Kenyi Cichlid- Need a quick answer Yes I can trade them. How many Yellow Labs can I home per square foot of the tank's bottom? I'm asking for a general rule of thumb. I admit that I'll trade them with a heavy heart, because I loved those magnificent bright blue babies, but would also hate to see them turn into big bullies monsters later, and cause me and their mates only misory. The LFS has only these two species as babies, and it's really rare to see this small size of any African Cichlids here, I always find 3"+ . Thanks for the advise Ray. I hope someone can reply to how many Yellow Labs can I get soon. I'm going to the fish store TODAY before it runs out of those Labs. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re:Kenyi Cichlid Noura, Can you return the two Ps. kenyi and trade them for two Yellow Labs, and purchase several more of these Yellow Labs? As P. kenyi get to be a larger species (5 + "), the males of this species will stake out a much larger territory than will Yellow Labs, for instance, and will make life difficult for the smaller species in a 34" long tank. The height of an Mbuna tank is not as much of a concern, it's the bottom area that they need. A tank of only Yellow Labs would work well in your size tank, besides your not having to be concerned with hybrids. Then, when your Yellow Labs breed, you could readily sell them to your LFS or anyone else without having them rejected. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46972	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid- Need a quick answer

Hi Noura, You should still have time to get to your LFS, but please keep in mind that it was difficult for us to answer much sooner as, while it's probably about 3:57 PM by you, it's only 8:57 AM here by me (and 7:57 AM by Lenny). As females are not territorial, and as you would eventually hope to preferably wind up with more females than males, you don't need to be concerned so much with the bottom area but instead the tank volume's capacity to maintain these fish. Males of Yellow Labs can reach about 4" and females about 3", so adding the maximum lengths of the 2 males and 5 females you might want as coexisting well, this would come to about 23 inches of fish. Then you need to consider that these fish are slightly high-bodied (they're not just long fish as are Zebra Danios for instance) but this should still work well in your tank, depending on its height -- and I've already worked it out mathematically before suggesting this. We know your tank is 34" long x 14" wide. What we don't know is the height, but at 16" high this tank would hold 33 gallons (32.97 gallons), which these fish would be fine in with adequate room to spare. If on the other hand you've gone much more conservative and had it built at only 12" high, it will hold nearly 25 gallons (24.72 gallons) -- but these volumes are maxed out to the very top, which you'd never fill you tank to. Still, even at 12" high you should be able to handle 7 Yellow Labs. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46973	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: A.Cichlids species

Hi, I came across this page about cichlids, it contains about all African Cichlid species in one page, in illustrated pictures. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/african_cichlid_genus_gallery.php Lenny, I think it's worth adding to your comprehensive fish blog. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46974	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

OK. Are you sure you bought two more Yellow labs? I thought you originally thought that the yellow fish you bought were male Kenyi's... or has your LFS conceded they are Yellow Lab's? If you bought two more male Kenyi's they you have even more problems.... same if they are male Yellow Lab's. You may have missed it earlier but either Ray or Donna posted about having one male and MANY females (I think 4 females if you have Lab's and 7 females if you have Kenyi's) per male. Having a bunch of males and only a couple of females will definitely lead to fighting. If you weren't thinking about getting rid of any of the potential baby fish, you could enjoy your mutts but if you are considering trading or selling some then you should take precautions to make sure you have pure males and females of whichever species you go with. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid "Now, if Noura is thinking about breeding these fish to sell their offspring, then much more care should be taken to insure they are properly identified." oh no, no no no, I'm not dreaming of that, the whole thing is that I always wanted an African Cichlid tank, and since I will have a species tank it will be very interesting to watch them breed, and if the offspring survived and grew then I'll think about what to do with them. It's the pleasure of following the breeding stages what I'm hoping to get. Anyway, i just came back from the LFS that sold me the four baby cichlids, he didn't take the Kenyis back, my timing was wrong since he was lifting four dead oscars from their tank when I came in, they were dead because a customer gave him a sick oscar probably. I couldn't have chosen a worst timing even if I tried! So I bought two more Yellow Labs, and I'm planning to give the two Kenyis for free to another LFS as soon as they start showing agression or get bigger. Till then , I'll have the 4 Labs and 2 Kenyi's in the 34" new tank with rocks and caves, and enjoy the temporary blue-yellow view. Is that a reasonable idea? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Just in answer to your last sentence since it's getting late... Yes, Koi and goldfish will cross-Genera breed but you don't see a lot of other cross-Genera breeding in the Cyprinidae Family. I suspect, based on my thoughts today, that these fish maybe should be in the same Genus since their offspring often resort to looking more like a common carp rather than either of the parents anyhow which brings up the possibility that maybe some man-made cross breeding was done hundreds or thousands of years ago to create Koi and goldfish in the first place. ;-) For there to be so much cross-Genera breeding in the Cichlidae family, in the Rift Lake fish, is what leads me to think that there might have been some overzealous creation of too many Genera during the classification. They should have probably used less Genera and then relied on species and sub-species which then would fit more within the guidelines of limited or preferably NO cross-Genera breeding. It doesn't mean that these fish wouldn't hybridize either in nature or in aquaria but it just means that when there is a cross-Genera hybrid, it would be an anomaly rather than an expectation.... or that possibly there was a mistake in the creation of separate Genera for the two fish in the first place. My initial post way back at the beginning of this topic was that cross-Genera breeding shouldn't happen at all but I understand man can and will make mistakes at classifying fish from time to time but the two species (lab's and kenyi's) and apparently many other Rift Lake species have such dramatically different Genera, and yet, according to so many follow-up posts, that for them to so easily cross-Genera breed still seems like a BIG mistake in classifying them to me. Even if many of these fish were re-classified into the same Genus, attempts should still be made to keep them from hybridizing just like with the Koi and goldfish example above. In closing, the good thing is that for rookies that do inadvertently cross-breed fish, whether Koi and goldfish or Rift Lake cichlids, they generally will not be selling or trading the offspring so the bigger risk still lies with nature or even more so with wholesalers and breeders who do not take precautions, rather than worrying about the lone hobbyist such as Noura or any other hobbyist who does not have plans to go into the fish breeding business even if at the hobby level. Now, if Noura is thinking about breeding these fish to sell their offspring, then much more care should be taken to insure they are properly identified. Good night John-boy. Good night ma. Good night pa. Good night Ray. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Okay Lenny, now back to the second part of your post. To begin with, all species, and I'm talking about any animal (fish,, bird, mammal, etc.) -- including Malawi Cichlids -- have a natural propensity in preferring to breed first and foremost within their species, or putting it another way, with another similar living entity as close to their genetic make up as their own -- even going so far with some lower species as to have the innate instinct to prefer their own morph if at all possible, but that preference may be variable depending on the choice of availability. Lower animals, such as more closely related fish such as are Malawi Cichlids, are know to occasionally cross-breed in the wild, but this behavior is far from being wanton as it seems you are suggesting. It it were, there would no longer be any separate species that we could identify as such, if they've been interbreeding since the time they've been evolving. The comparatively fewer times that they may hybridize, the resultant young are not an improvement enough to overtake either of the two parent species, in the environment in which they need to compete in but are most often inferior to both parent species. As they show no improvement and there is no benefit over either of the parent species in surviving any better and procreating a new species having the genetic make-up of both partent species, but only being shown to be less successful, these hybrid most often perish -- either by being eaten, or out-competed by the true-species' spawns of fry that they need to survive with. At those rare times when such hybrids prove to be assets and improvements in survival and adaptation to their environment even more so than either parent species, they will in time displace at least one or perhaps both of their parent species in that environment as then, the parent species will have been out-competed. This is one method of evolution, even if it's not nearly the most prevalent. By far, the most normal process of evolution occurs when a mutation within the species proves to be an improvement over the species it sprang out of and continued to be an improvement in out-performing its predecessors in their environment. After all, this is how we developed. In the artificial environment of the aquarium where two closely related species are confined without the opposite sex of their own species, there then is no longer much choice in breeding except to breed with a related species if there is an individual of this other species available for breeding, since their similar, if not same, genetic relationship makes this possible. But as this does occur in the artificial environment of the aquarium, being confined together by the hand of man, this of course is not natural nor could it be any further removed from the wild environment. Even though many Malawi Cichlids may look superficially similar, the identification of separate species is not only made by appearance (shape, size, color and pattern), but skeletal structure and dentition play a MAJOR role in distinguishing a species. Further, a species teeth (shape, size, etc.) denotes the specific environment they evolved in and the specific niche they've filled in it, in their feeding habits. The fact that these somewhat closely related fish can interbreed readily when maintained artificially by the hobbyist in confined conditions cannot be compared to hibridization in higher animals, since the lower on the scale of evolution an animal (such as a fish) is, the easier this possibility becomes. Even Goldfish and Koi will interbreed when set up in a pond together, yet we have to agree they are two different (but related) species. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46975	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

It's the 34" x 14" footprint that is the main thing to know when dealing with territorial fish and how many you can have, although how tall a tank is also helps with knowing the total water volume. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Re:Kenyi Cichlid Sorry I meant 34"X14" LONG. Forgive my poor English! ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:41 PM Subject: Re:Kenyi Cichlid I've ordered a cutom-made a 34" x 14" tall. It's already built and only needs rock decorations and a few electronic equipments. ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Also tank size will make a difference, not sure we know the size of the tank yet? For example, a 48" x 18" tank with 1m:7f of each species, (kenyi and lab) would work although the yellow male kenyi and the yellow male lab might fight. But those two fish as individuals in a 30" tank I would expect not to work when the fish mature in about 8 months. The food sounds decent given your difficulty in obtaining supplies. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Noura, In general, the most aggression by such Cichlids as Ps. kenyi is directed towards conspecifics, and then that behavior is primarily directed by the males towards the females. There is still enough aggression left over in its behavior though, to chase away other males of its species as well as any heterospecifics that might venture too close to its territory. Of course, this would include the less aggressive Yellow Labs which wouldn't be able to defend themselves as well. You don't know though, whether either of your Ps. kenyi are males though, and females of even more aggressive species are not that "mean-tempered" as compared to the males of their species. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -----------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46976	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

I'm fine with the splitters creating distinct species and sub-species but the lumpers should probably win out when it comes to creating new Genera since individual species that easily cross-breed with another species should be in the same Genus, so they do not violate the general rule of NO cross-Genera breeding. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, When it comes to taxonomy, there are two groups--the lumpers and the splitters. The lumpers like to take two or more species and place them together as one species. The splitters are those who make fine distinctions and would take the species created by the lumpers and make them into two or more species. Now that many of them are doing DNA studies, taxonomy is changing, as they use the results of DNA testing to determine species. However, I do not know, nor have I seen, any definition of what differences in DNA would determine exactly when to erect a species grouping of fish, or any animal. There is also a relatively new school of thought about all this, known as cladistics, which is supposed to help, and what this does is to use various characteristics to place fish in a hierarchy showing relationships between species of the same genus, and, though I have not seen it, larger groupings (genus, etc.). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Ray, As \\Steve// mentioned in a previous post, how do we know they seldom hybridize in nature or if they did hybridize hundreds of years ago? There is still the issue that cross-Genera breeding is VERY rare in ALL of nature but for some reason these fish are able to so easily break this rule? I have a feeling that one day in the future, some scientist or a group of them are going to re-classify all of these different Genera, that so easily inter-breed, into one Genera, which would then explain why they inter-breed so easily and it wouldn't be trashing the principle that cross-Genera breeding is not supposed to happen. As far as the rest of your post about the *evolution* or changing of humans... two words... Adam & Eve.... OK.. two words and a symbol! I don't believe the theory of evolution about man having evolved from some type of ape or other lower life form. ;-) You said, in an earlier reply and I chose not to reply to it at the time, but I'll bring it up now, "What you are saying essentially is that while we (Humans) have evolved from apes as a different species, that we are just "hybrids" and that we should readily breed with Chimps because of that. Your thinking is flawed in this line of speciation." I'm not sure where you thought that I thought that humans evolved from apes, etc., as I do not believe I ever said or even implied that since it's something I simply do not believe. I'm an "Intelligent Design" kind of guy and because of this Intelligent Design, rampant cross-genera breeding isn't supposed to happen! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, I'll take the first part of your reply separately, and get back to reading the rest of your comments later, but I just want to get back to this first subject as soon as I can. I never said that we humans are decended from chimps, even if I did alude to the fact we are related. As higher primates, both us and chimps have branched off from a common ancester way back in time. Further, it was not us directly (as Homo sapiens) that branched off from this common earlier ancestor at the time when the chimps' ancestor (Paranthropus aethiopicus) branched off from this same predecessor, but one of our earlier ancestors (like an ancestor of Australopithicus afarensis) that we've continued to evolve from through subsequent improvements (such as Homo habilis, H. erectus, H. heidelbergensis and H. floresiensis). A common ancestor would have been way back in time, even before the development of any of the anthropoid species I mentioned above. Going back further in time, we have Sahelanthropus tchadensis at 7 million years ago as one of our earliest ancestors, followed by Orrorin tugenensis, then Aripithecus kadabba, A. ramidus and Australopithicus amamensis before Au. afarenis came on the scene at 3.5 million years ago as our first ancestors. Still, as we go back further in time, there reaches a point where chimpanzees, gorillas, bonabos and orangutans all branched off from a much earlier ancestor -- much as Malawi Cichlids have done in their early development -- the difference being that they developed as different species at a much faster rate than other fishes. Yet, they are all separate and distinct species, YET EVOLVING -- just as we are continually evolving. They're capable of breeding together as two different species, creating a hybrid of them both as they're related way back in time by a common ancestor. They seldom hybridize in nature as any species inately, by instinct, breed amonst themselves -- but when they do hybridize the resultant offspring (if not infertile) will almost always not survive UNLESS this hybrid is an improvement in survival of the shared envirornment of these two species, even though this is not the normal route of a species' evolving. Most often however, in the wild, the resultant offspring will prove to be inferior to the two species involved and will quickly fall by the wayside. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: A.Cichlids species

I know about the good cichlid-forum.com website and regularly refer folks to specific information on that site. The problem with that page you are looking at is that they are trying to help folks shopping for new fish but only show photos of adult fish and unfortunately, juvenile fish often do not have the same coloration as adult fish. Also, stressed fish will often show much less coloration than they will once they have been acclimated into a new and stabile home which further hampers clear and concise knowledge of what species you may be buying at a store who has not taken the efforts to clearly identify their stock. This is something I like about the PlanetCatfish site where they have dozens of photos of each species on their profile pages, when available, so that folks can see the VAST differences that often exist between a baby, juvi and adult fish and the differences between males and females at the various stages, when the photos are available. This is the only real way of helping someone make sure they are buying what they think they are buying... and even it's not fail-proof since often, juvenile fish will be more generic in their looks and are more easily confused with another species if not identified properly from the breeding stage. If they are wild caught, this is even less likely to happen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A.Cichlids species Hi, I came across this page about cichlids, it contains about all African Cichlid species in one page, in illustrated pictures. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/african_cichlid_genus_gallery.php Lenny, I think it's worth adding to your comprehensive fish blog. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46978	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

You would have to have one genus for all mouthbrooders then, regardless of lake or continent. LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I'm fine with the splitters creating distinct species and sub-species but the lumpers should probably win out when it comes to creating new Genera since individual species that easily cross-breed with another species should be in the same Genus, so they do not violate the general rule of NO cross-Genera breeding. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:58 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, When it comes to taxonomy, there are two groups--the lumpers and the splitters. The lumpers like to take two or more species and place them together as one species. The splitters are those who make fine distinctions and would take the species created by the lumpers and make them into two or more species. Now that many of them are doing DNA studies, taxonomy is changing, as they use the results of DNA testing to determine species. However, I do not know, nor have I seen, any definition of what differences in DNA would determine exactly when to erect a species grouping of fish, or any animal. There is also a relatively new school of thought about all this, known as cladistics, which is supposed to help, and what this does is to use various characteristics to place fish in a hierarchy showing relationships between species of the same genus, and, though I have not seen it, larger groupings (genus, etc.). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:21 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Ray, As \\Steve// mentioned in a previous post, how do we know they seldom hybridize in nature or if they did hybridize hundreds of years ago? There is still the issue that cross-Genera breeding is VERY rare in ALL of nature but for some reason these fish are able to so easily break this rule? I have a feeling that one day in the future, some scientist or a group of them are going to re-classify all of these different Genera, that so easily inter-breed, into one Genera, which would then explain why they inter-breed so easily and it wouldn't be trashing the principle that cross-Genera breeding is not supposed to happen. As far as the rest of your post about the *evolution* or changing of humans... two words... Adam & Eve.... OK.. two words and a symbol! I don't believe the theory of evolution about man having evolved from some type of ape or other lower life form. ;-) You said, in an earlier reply and I chose not to reply to it at the time, but I'll bring it up now, "What you are saying essentially is that while we (Humans) have evolved from apes as a different species, that we are just "hybrids" and that we should readily breed with Chimps because of that. Your thinking is flawed in this line of speciation." I'm not sure where you thought that I thought that humans evolved from apes, etc., as I do not believe I ever said or even implied that since it's something I simply do not believe. I'm an "Intelligent Design" kind of guy and because of this Intelligent Design, rampant cross-genera breeding isn't supposed to happen! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, I'll take the first part of your reply separately, and get back to reading the rest of your comments later, but I just want to get back to this first subject as soon as I can. I never said that we humans are decended from chimps, even if I did alude to the fact we are related. As higher primates, both us and chimps have branched off from a common ancester way back in time. Further, it was not us directly (as Homo sapiens) that branched off from this common earlier ancestor at the time when the chimps' ancestor (Paranthropus aethiopicus) branched off from this same predecessor, but one of our earlier ancestors (like an ancestor of Australopithicus afarensis) that we've continued to evolve from through subsequent improvements (such as Homo habilis, H. erectus, H. heidelbergensis and H. floresiensis). A common ancestor would have been way back in time, even before the development of any of the anthropoid species I mentioned above. Going back further in time, we have Sahelanthropus tchadensis at 7 million years ago as one of our earliest ancestors, followed by Orrorin tugenensis, then Aripithecus kadabba, A. ramidus and Australopithicus amamensis before Au. afarenis came on the scene at 3.5 million years ago as our first ancestors. Still, as we go back further in time, there reaches a point where chimpanzees, gorillas, bonabos and orangutans all branched off from a much earlier ancestor -- much as Malawi Cichlids have done in their early development -- the difference being that they developed as different species at a much faster rate than other fishes. Yet, they are all separate and distinct species, YET EVOLVING -- just as we are continually evolving. They're capable of breeding together as two different species, creating a hybrid of them both as they're related way back in time by a common ancestor. They seldom hybridize in nature as any species inately, by instinct, breed amonst themselves -- but when they do hybridize the resultant offspring (if not infertile) will almost always not survive UNLESS this hybrid is an improvement in survival of the shared envirornment of these two species, even though this is not the normal route of a species' evolving. Most often however, in the wild, the resultant offspring will prove to be inferior to the two species involved and will quickly fall by the wayside. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46979	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Konings has this to say: In the lake males are rarely seen displaying to females of different species. As Steve mentioned, many populations of mbuna species are virtually isolated by inhospitable barriers. Rock-dwelling Malawi cichlids (mbuna like Noura's labs and kenyi) use colors and color patterns for mate identification, and less commonly shape or behavior. The male can also release a species-specific scent upon encounter with a mate which the female uses to confirm the male is of her species. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Ray, The study I mentioned earlier, and hopefully will be able to look up when I get home later today, is centered on overlapping populations of fish. From the little readings I have done on rift lake cichlids, it seems that there is not much overlapping of similar species, which would drastically decrease the opportunity for cross breeding by these fish. Also, for interbreeding in the wild, at least some of the cues of males and females would need to be present in both participants for them to even be inclined to breed., By this, I mean external characteristics, such as egg spots, and other color cues, and similar courtship behaviors. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:47 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Okay Lenny, now back to the second part of your post. To begin with, all species, and I'm talking about any animal (fish,, bird, mammal, etc.) -- including Malawi Cichlids -- have a natural propensity in preferring to breed first and foremost within their species, or putting it another way, with another similar living entity as close to their genetic make up as their own -- even going so far with some lower species as to have the innate instinct to prefer their own morph if at all possible, but that preference may be variable depending on the choice of availability. Lower animals, such as more closely related fish such as are Malawi Cichlids, are know to occasionally cross-breed in the wild, but this behavior is far from being wanton as it seems you are suggesting. It it were, there would no longer be any separate species that we could identify as such, if they've been interbreeding since the time they've been evolving. The comparatively fewer times that they may hybridize, the resultant young are not an improvement enough to overtake either of the two parent species, in the environment in which they need to compete in but are most often inferior to both parent species. As they show no improvement and there is no benefit over either of the parent species in surviving any better and procreating a new species having the genetic make-up of both partent species, but only being shown to be less successful, these hybrid most often perish -- either by being eaten, or out-competed by the true-species' spawns of fry that they need to survive with. At those rare times when such hybrids prove to be assets and improvements in survival and adaptation to their environment even more so than either parent species, they will in time displace at least one or perhaps both of their parent species in that environment as then, the parent species will have been out-competed. This is one method of evolution, even if it's not nearly the most prevalent. By far, the most normal process of evolution occurs when a mutation within the species proves to be an improvement over the species it sprang out of and continued to be an improvement in out-performing its predecessors in their environment. After all, this is how we developed. In the artificial environment of the aquarium where two closely related species are confined without the opposite sex of their own species, there then is no longer much choice in breeding except to breed with a related species if there is an individual of this other species available for breeding, since their similar, if not same, genetic relationship makes this possible. But as this does occur in the artificial environment of the aquarium, being confined together by the hand of man, this of course is not natural nor could it be any further removed from the wild environment. Even though many Malawi Cichlids may look superficially similar, the identification of separate species is not only made by appearance (shape, size, color and pattern), but skeletal structure and dentition play a MAJOR role in distinguishing a species. Further, a species teeth (shape, size, etc.) denotes the specific environment they evolved in and the specific niche they've filled in it, in their feeding habits. The fact that these somewhat closely related fish can interbreed readily when maintained artificially by the hobbyist in confined conditions cannot be compared to hibridization in higher animals, since the lower on the scale of evolution an animal (such as a fish) is, the easier this possibility becomes. Even Goldfish and Koi will interbreed when set up in a pond together, yet we have to agree they are two different (but related) species. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46980	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Why? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 9:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid You would have to have one genus for all mouthbrooders then, regardless of lake or continent. LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I'm fine with the splitters creating distinct species and sub-species but the lumpers should probably win out when it comes to creating new Genera since individual species that easily cross-breed with another species should be in the same Genus, so they do not violate the general rule of NO cross-Genera breeding. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:58 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, When it comes to taxonomy, there are two groups--the lumpers and the splitters. The lumpers like to take two or more species and place them together as one species. The splitters are those who make fine distinctions and would take the species created by the lumpers and make them into two or more species. Now that many of them are doing DNA studies, taxonomy is changing, as they use the results of DNA testing to determine species. However, I do not know, nor have I seen, any definition of what differences in DNA would determine exactly when to erect a species grouping of fish, or any animal. There is also a relatively new school of thought about all this, known as cladistics, which is supposed to help, and what this does is to use various characteristics to place fish in a hierarchy showing relationships between species of the same genus, and, though I have not seen it, larger groupings (genus, etc.). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:21 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Ray, As \\Steve// mentioned in a previous post, how do we know they seldom hybridize in nature or if they did hybridize hundreds of years ago? There is still the issue that cross-Genera breeding is VERY rare in ALL of nature but for some reason these fish are able to so easily break this rule? I have a feeling that one day in the future, some scientist or a group of them are going to re-classify all of these different Genera, that so easily inter-breed, into one Genera, which would then explain why they inter-breed so easily and it wouldn't be trashing the principle that cross-Genera breeding is not supposed to happen. As far as the rest of your post about the *evolution* or changing of humans... two words... Adam & Eve.... OK.. two words and a symbol! I don't believe the theory of evolution about man having evolved from some type of ape or other lower life form. ;-) You said, in an earlier reply and I chose not to reply to it at the time, but I'll bring it up now, "What you are saying essentially is that while we (Humans) have evolved from apes as a different species, that we are just "hybrids" and that we should readily breed with Chimps because of that. Your thinking is flawed in this line of speciation." I'm not sure where you thought that I thought that humans evolved from apes, etc., as I do not believe I ever said or even implied that since it's something I simply do not believe. I'm an "Intelligent Design" kind of guy and because of this Intelligent Design, rampant cross-genera breeding isn't supposed to happen! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, I'll take the first part of your reply separately, and get back to reading the rest of your comments later, but I just want to get back to this first subject as soon as I can. I never said that we humans are decended from chimps, even if I did alude to the fact we are related. As higher primates, both us and chimps have branched off from a common ancester way back in time. Further, it was not us directly (as Homo sapiens) that branched off from this common earlier ancestor at the time when the chimps' ancestor (Paranthropus aethiopicus) branched off from this same predecessor, but one of our earlier ancestors (like an ancestor of Australopithicus afarensis) that we've continued to evolve from through subsequent improvements (such as Homo habilis, H. erectus, H. heidelbergensis and H. floresiensis). A common ancestor would have been way back in time, even before the development of any of the anthropoid species I mentioned above. Going back further in time, we have Sahelanthropus tchadensis at 7 million years ago as one of our earliest ancestors, followed by Orrorin tugenensis, then Aripithecus kadabba, A. ramidus and Australopithicus amamensis before Au. afarenis came on the scene at 3.5 million years ago as our first ancestors. Still, as we go back further in time, there reaches a point where chimpanzees, gorillas, bonabos and orangutans all branched off from a much earlier ancestor -- much as Malawi Cichlids have done in their early development -- the difference being that they developed as different species at a much faster rate than other fishes. Yet, they are all separate and distinct species, YET EVOLVING -- just as we are continually evolving. They're capable of breeding together as two different species, creating a hybrid of them both as they're related way back in time by a common ancestor. They seldom hybridize in nature as any species inately, by instinct, breed amonst themselves -- but when they do hybridize the resultant offspring (if not infertile) will almost always not survive UNLESS this hybrid is an improvement in survival of the shared envirornment of these two species, even though this is not the normal route of a species' evolving. Most often however, in the wild, the resultant offspring will prove to be inferior to the two species involved and will quickly fall by the wayside. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46982	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46983	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: It's Raining Fish In Australia

I couldn't let \\Steve// have all the fun with posting weird news stories about fish so here's mine that I just saw on The Drudge Report. http://www.news.com.au/national/its-raining-fish-in-the-northern-territory-r eport/story-e6frfkvr-1225835295781 OR http://tinyurl.com/yztzsno Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46984	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Because they can pretty much all cross breed. Definitely including all mbuna in Lake Malawi. And even across cichlid types, like peacock/mbuna and peacock/hap. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Why? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 9:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid You would have to have one genus for all mouthbrooders then, regardless of lake or continent. LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I'm fine with the splitters creating distinct species and sub-species but the lumpers should probably win out when it comes to creating new Genera since individual species that easily cross-breed with another species should be in the same Genus, so they do not violate the general rule of NO cross-Genera breeding. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:58 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, When it comes to taxonomy, there are two groups--the lumpers and the splitters. The lumpers like to take two or more species and place them together as one species. The splitters are those who make fine distinctions and would take the species created by the lumpers and make them into two or more species. Now that many of them are doing DNA studies, taxonomy is changing, as they use the results of DNA testing to determine species. However, I do not know, nor have I seen, any definition of what differences in DNA would determine exactly when to erect a species grouping of fish, or any animal. There is also a relatively new school of thought about all this, known as cladistics, which is supposed to help, and what this does is to use various characteristics to place fish in a hierarchy showing relationships between species of the same genus, and, though I have not seen it, larger groupings (genus, etc.). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:21 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Ray, As \\Steve// mentioned in a previous post, how do we know they seldom hybridize in nature or if they did hybridize hundreds of years ago? There is still the issue that cross-Genera breeding is VERY rare in ALL of nature but for some reason these fish are able to so easily break this rule? I have a feeling that one day in the future, some scientist or a group of them are going to re-classify all of these different Genera, that so easily inter-breed, into one Genera, which would then explain why they inter-breed so easily and it wouldn't be trashing the principle that cross-Genera breeding is not supposed to happen. As far as the rest of your post about the *evolution* or changing of humans... two words... Adam & Eve.... OK.. two words and a symbol! I don't believe the theory of evolution about man having evolved from some type of ape or other lower life form. ;-) You said, in an earlier reply and I chose not to reply to it at the time, but I'll bring it up now, "What you are saying essentially is that while we (Humans) have evolved from apes as a different species, that we are just "hybrids" and that we should readily breed with Chimps because of that. Your thinking is flawed in this line of speciation." I'm not sure where you thought that I thought that humans evolved from apes, etc., as I do not believe I ever said or even implied that since it's something I simply do not believe. I'm an "Intelligent Design" kind of guy and because of this Intelligent Design, rampant cross-genera breeding isn't supposed to happen! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, I'll take the first part of your reply separately, and get back to reading the rest of your comments later, but I just want to get back to this first subject as soon as I can. I never said that we humans are decended from chimps, even if I did alude to the fact we are related. As higher primates, both us and chimps have branched off from a common ancester way back in time. Further, it was not us directly (as Homo sapiens) that branched off from this common earlier ancestor at the time when the chimps' ancestor (Paranthropus aethiopicus) branched off from this same predecessor, but one of our earlier ancestors (like an ancestor of Australopithicus afarensis) that we've continued to evolve from through subsequent improvements (such as Homo habilis, H. erectus, H. heidelbergensis and H. floresiensis). A common ancestor would have been way back in time, even before the development of any of the anthropoid species I mentioned above. Going back further in time, we have Sahelanthropus tchadensis at 7 million years ago as one of our earliest ancestors, followed by Orrorin tugenensis, then Aripithecus kadabba, A. ramidus and Australopithicus amamensis before Au. afarenis came on the scene at 3.5 million years ago as our first ancestors. Still, as we go back further in time, there reaches a point where chimpanzees, gorillas, bonabos and orangutans all branched off from a much earlier ancestor -- much as Malawi Cichlids have done in their early development -- the difference being that they developed as different species at a much faster rate than other fishes. Yet, they are all separate and distinct species, YET EVOLVING -- just as we are continually evolving. They're capable of breeding together as two different species, creating a hybrid of them both as they're related way back in time by a common ancestor. They seldom hybridize in nature as any species inately, by instinct, breed amonst themselves -- but when they do hybridize the resultant offspring (if not infertile) will almost always not survive UNLESS this hybrid is an improvement in survival of the shared envirornment of these two species, even though this is not the normal route of a species' evolving. Most often however, in the wild, the resultant offspring will prove to be inferior to the two species involved and will quickly fall by the wayside. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46985	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46986	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

So, ALL or most mouth brooding cichlids can all inter-breed, regardless of Genus? Sounds like another mis-use of Genera then. According to the general rules with the rest of the animal kingdom, if species can easily mix breed, then they should be in the same Genus. There are instances of these Genera errors in the rest of the animal kingdom but it seems to really be overblown when it comes to cichlids... possibly the result of "too many cooks in the kitchen". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Because they can pretty much all cross breed. Definitely including all mbuna in Lake Malawi. And even across cichlid types, like peacock/mbuna and peacock/hap. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Why? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 9:43 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid You would have to have one genus for all mouthbrooders then, regardless of lake or continent. LOL! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:00 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I'm fine with the splitters creating distinct species and sub-species but the lumpers should probably win out when it comes to creating new Genera since individual species that easily cross-breed with another species should be in the same Genus, so they do not violate the general rule of NO cross-Genera breeding. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:58 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, When it comes to taxonomy, there are two groups--the lumpers and the splitters. The lumpers like to take two or more species and place them together as one species. The splitters are those who make fine distinctions and would take the species created by the lumpers and make them into two or more species. Now that many of them are doing DNA studies, taxonomy is changing, as they use the results of DNA testing to determine species. However, I do not know, nor have I seen, any definition of what differences in DNA would determine exactly when to erect a species grouping of fish, or any animal. There is also a relatively new school of thought about all this, known as cladistics, which is supposed to help, and what this does is to use various characteristics to place fish in a hierarchy showing relationships between species of the same genus, and, though I have not seen it, larger groupings (genus, etc.). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:21 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Ray, As \\Steve// mentioned in a previous post, how do we know they seldom hybridize in nature or if they did hybridize hundreds of years ago? There is still the issue that cross-Genera breeding is VERY rare in ALL of nature but for some reason these fish are able to so easily break this rule? I have a feeling that one day in the future, some scientist or a group of them are going to re-classify all of these different Genera, that so easily inter-breed, into one Genera, which would then explain why they inter-breed so easily and it wouldn't be trashing the principle that cross-Genera breeding is not supposed to happen. As far as the rest of your post about the *evolution* or changing of humans... two words... Adam & Eve.... OK.. two words and a symbol! I don't believe the theory of evolution about man having evolved from some type of ape or other lower life form. ;-) You said, in an earlier reply and I chose not to reply to it at the time, but I'll bring it up now, "What you are saying essentially is that while we (Humans) have evolved from apes as a different species, that we are just "hybrids" and that we should readily breed with Chimps because of that. Your thinking is flawed in this line of speciation." I'm not sure where you thought that I thought that humans evolved from apes, etc., as I do not believe I ever said or even implied that since it's something I simply do not believe. I'm an "Intelligent Design" kind of guy and because of this Intelligent Design, rampant cross-genera breeding isn't supposed to happen! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:17 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, I'll take the first part of your reply separately, and get back to reading the rest of your comments later, but I just want to get back to this first subject as soon as I can. I never said that we humans are decended from chimps, even if I did alude to the fact we are related. As higher primates, both us and chimps have branched off from a common ancester way back in time. Further, it was not us directly (as Homo sapiens) that branched off from this common earlier ancestor at the time when the chimps' ancestor (Paranthropus aethiopicus) branched off from this same predecessor, but one of our earlier ancestors (like an ancestor of Australopithicus afarensis) that we've continued to evolve from through subsequent improvements (such as Homo habilis, H. erectus, H. heidelbergensis and H. floresiensis). A common ancestor would have been way back in time, even before the development of any of the anthropoid species I mentioned above. Going back further in time, we have Sahelanthropus tchadensis at 7 million years ago as one of our earliest ancestors, followed by Orrorin tugenensis, then Aripithecus kadabba, A. ramidus and Australopithicus amamensis before Au. afarenis came on the scene at 3.5 million years ago as our first ancestors. Still, as we go back further in time, there reaches a point where chimpanzees, gorillas, bonabos and orangutans all branched off from a much earlier ancestor -- much as Malawi Cichlids have done in their early development -- the difference being that they developed as different species at a much faster rate than other fishes. Yet, they are all separate and distinct species, YET EVOLVING -- just as we are continually evolving. They're capable of breeding together as two different species, creating a hybrid of them both as they're related way back in time by a common ancestor. They seldom hybridize in nature as any species inately, by instinct, breed amonst themselves -- but when they do hybridize the resultant offspring (if not infertile) will almost always not survive UNLESS this hybrid is an improvement in survival of the shared envirornment of these two species, even though this is not the normal route of a species' evolving. Most often however, in the wild, the resultant offspring will prove to be inferior to the two species involved and will quickly fall by the wayside. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46987	From: Noura	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

The "Yellow Labs" are now confirmed to be just that. So I'm sure now that I have 2 Kenyis and 4 Yellow Labs, all juvies. I've been looking at both species photos on the internet for more than 4 hours, including fry and juvies photos. The guy at the LFS only knows that they are "Cichlids", and that they are agressive and not suitable for a community tank. I want juvies, not adult cichlids, to start with. I neither want "ready big" fish, or even afford their prices. What I'm forced to deal with, is that fact that juvies from both species can't be sexed yet. As for "choosing " Kenyis, I bought them first just because they were the only available species that came in juvies' size, along with the Labs. So I really don't mind ending up with another African Cichlid species. And from what I've been reading all day long, Yellow Labs are very nice A.Cichlids, and relatively non-aggressive fish. So hopefully I won't end up running, all day long, between my two occasionly fighting children , and my bunch of constantly fighting cichlids! Of course, I'm up and ready to give the Kenyies for free to any LFS that will take them, especially if they started to pale and turn out to be "males". Or even give away any excess Lab males that will cause trouble, as soon as they DO cause trouble. The good thing is that it's not rare to find Yellow Labs available in the LFSs here, so I can buy adult ones later on, when mine become adults themselves, to reach the desired minimum male:female ratio for my 34"X14"X14" African tank. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:51 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid OK. Are you sure you bought two more Yellow labs? I thought you originally thought that the yellow fish you bought were male Kenyi's... or has your LFS conceded they are Yellow Lab's? If you bought two more male Kenyi's they you have even more problems.... same if they are male Yellow Lab's. You may have missed it earlier but either Ray or Donna posted about having one male and MANY females (I think 4 females if you have Lab's and 7 females if you have Kenyi's) per male. Having a bunch of males and only a couple of females will definitely lead to fighting. If you weren't thinking about getting rid of any of the potential baby fish, you could enjoy your mutts but if you are considering trading or selling some then you should take precautions to make sure you have pure males and females of whichever species you go with. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid "Now, if Noura is thinking about breeding these fish to sell their offspring, then much more care should be taken to insure they are properly identified." oh no, no no no, I'm not dreaming of that, the whole thing is that I always wanted an African Cichlid tank, and since I will have a species tank it will be very interesting to watch them breed, and if the offspring survived and grew then I'll think about what to do with them. It's the pleasure of following the breeding stages what I'm hoping to get. Anyway, i just came back from the LFS that sold me the four baby cichlids, he didn't take the Kenyis back, my timing was wrong since he was lifting four dead oscars from their tank when I came in, they were dead because a customer gave him a sick oscar probably. I couldn't have chosen a worst timing even if I tried! So I bought two more Yellow Labs, and I'm planning to give the two Kenyis for free to another LFS as soon as they start showing agression or get bigger. Till then , I'll have the 4 Labs and 2 Kenyi's in the 34" new tank with rocks and caves, and enjoy the temporary blue-yellow view. Is that a reasonable idea? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid . Good night Ray. ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46989	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Leak at Dubai Aquarium

Hah! You think you got problems when one of your tanks springs a leak, look at this article. This leak dwarfs any that you may have. http://business.maktoob.com/20090000439946/Leak_at_Dubai_Aquarium_floods_mal l/Article.htm http://tinyurl.com/yg53y5e [The leak has been fixed, and mall and aquarium have reopened.] Leak at Dubai Aquarium floods mall Feb 25, 2010 at 13:12 View count (5354) By Rajiv Sekhri and Peter Harrison 33,000 sea creatures -in Dubai Mall * GALLERY: Dubai mall shut down * VIDEO: A day at Dubai Aquarium DUBAI - Dubai Aquarium, one of the world's biggest, sprung a leak and flooded Dubai Mall on Thursday, prompting an evacuation and closure of a part of the shopping centre - another setback to the emirate's tallest-and-biggest spectacles. "A leakage was noticed at one of the panel joints of the Dubai Aquarium ... and was immediately fixed by the aquarium's maintenance team," a statement released by Dubai Mall said late on Thursday afternoon. By 6 p.m., the delivery area under Dubai Mall, next to the parking lot, was flooded with about half a foot of water. Dozens of workers were pumping water into tens of sewage trucks. Officials did not comment on the damage, refusing even to comment on whether the leak in the aquarium had caused the flood. A Dubai Mall management official, who refused to disclose his name, told Maktoob News that the Dubai Aquarium & Underwater Zoo, dubbed an "indoor ocean", was shut until further notice. Earlier, security officers had said the aquarium was closed for maintenance. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46990	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46991	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 2/28/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different breeds should probably have different species names under their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. They could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed like dogs and cats do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46992	From: Noura	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Malawi Cichlids new photos

Hi, here are some new photos of my "yellow" Malawi Cichlid juvies, for better identification. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/list Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46993	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Hi Noura, Just FYI, your tank holds 28.84 gallons. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46994	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) versus wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not given a scientific name. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different breeds should probably have different species names under their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. They could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed like dogs and cats do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46995	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Just because it's possible for fish of different Genera (or different Species) to interbreed, does not automatically mean that they should all belong to one Genera (or to one Species). The lower one goes on the evolutionary scale, the greater the possibilty for related organisms to interbreed. The possiblity of breeding does not define what a Genera or Species is, even though in higher animals we do not expect different Genera to interbreed since the higher an organism is on the evolutionary scale, the more distantly related are any of their same Genera species. Yet, we know that by the hand of man, Zebras and Horses can successfully interbreed and of course Horses and Donkey's can be bred to produce (infertile) Mules. Similarly, we can cross breed Lions and Tigers in captivity. As for Dogs -- they are are one species regardless of the variety (Morph!) -- Canis lupus familiaris, the domesticated Grey Wolf. If it's felt that not all Dogs (and Cats) are man-made selectively-bred morphs (note: they are not cross-breeds in the sense that a morph (pedigree) is produced from two different species, as man's domesticated Dog is all one species regardless of its variety), what other force could have bred the predecessor Dogs (Grey Wolves) for the specific traits that they (Dogs) were specifically bred for? They (Grey Wolves) certainly did not selectively self breed specifically for certain traits in the wild, as for one thing, Canis lupus familiaris did not (nor has not) existed as a wild organism and only became its own morph of Canis lupus (Grey Wolf) when man domesticated this animal (Grey Wolf). For actual cross-BREEDS (hybrids) of the domestic Dog to have ever developed, Canis Lupus would have had to interbreed with either Canis latrans (Coyote), Vulpes vulpes (Red Fox), Urocyon cineroargentus (Grey Fox), Lycaon pictus (African Wild Dog) or Canis lupus dingo (Australian Wild Dog -- the "Dingo"). While it's possible that Grey Wolves and Coyotes could have bred in the wild, they are known enemies of each other, both competing for the same foods. The Coyote being a much smaller animal is often killed on sight by Wolves if it even ventures near a Wolf kill, so cross-breeding between these two species in the wild is not very probable. Actually, the domestic Dog morph names ARE very similar to what has been suggested here in this thread (which is not too far wrong) -- in the SAME MANNER that yet different varieties of morphs of fish species are named. In this case, it is correct to use Canis lupus familiaris Chihuahua -- with no latinizing of the morph name used. This does show that we are talking about all one Species ("familiaris") though, when referring to the various Dog morphs. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46996	From: Noura	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Thanks Ray, for some reason I imagined it would make more "gallons". Since you're volunteering to do the math, here's something to consult you about. I'm placing this new tank on a suitable wooden desk, hard and stable, but the best display solution is to put it side by side next to my 6 gallon guppy fry tank, which leaves about 3.5" of the tank's length unsupported. but the tank's side will be completely "leaning" on the wall. To help you imagine the situation, there are 3.5 inches of space between the desk and the wall, and the tank's bottom will be the "bridge" between them. This 3.5" doesn't hold any rock work or heavy decorations. Is it okey to keep it hanging out? It's 1/4" thick glass. As I said, as for the view, it is much better this way than to make the two tanks in L shape. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Hi Noura, Just FYI, your tank holds 28.84 gallons. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid

Well, I could agree with that but they give a sub-species scientific name to ALL dogs as a group (Canis lupus familiaris) without going any further for all of the different breeds. They say that all domestic dogs are descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, but if they are all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then they shouldn't have given the sub-species of familiaris. If they aren't all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then each should have their own sub-species designation. The more I read about all this, my eyes are about to spew blood. LOL I think many of these so-called experts might be in the same league as AlGore. Too many of them probably consider Darwin's Theory of Evolution as pure fact, which it isn't and even Darwin admitted it later in his life, but if a scientist believes a theory to be a fact and then bases their studies on that theory, all of their research is even further flawed. They ALL need to go back to the K.I.S.S. system... and now I'm beginning to think it should be Keep It Simple, Stupid! instead of Keep It Simple, Scientists! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) versus wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not given a scientific name. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different breeds should probably have different species names under their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. They could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed like dogs and cats do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46998	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

I'm going to bet that Ray will say that all sides (the rim around the edge of the tank) should all be equally supported. You don't want that tank tipping over if that desk falls over ;) LOL. Amber Noura wrote: > > Thanks Ray, for some reason I imagined it would make more "gallons". > Since you're volunteering to do the math, here's something to consult > you about. > I'm placing this new tank on a suitable wooden desk, hard and stable, > but the best display solution is to put it side by side next to my 6 > gallon guppy fry tank, which leaves about 3.5" of the tank's length > unsupported. but the tank's side will be completely "leaning" on the > wall. To help you imagine the situation, there are 3.5 inches of space > between the desk and the wall, and the tank's bottom will be the > "bridge" between them. > > This 3.5" doesn't hold any rock work or heavy decorations. Is it okey > to keep it hanging out? It's 1/4" thick glass. > As I said, as for the view, it is much better this way than to make > the two tanks in L shape. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > Hi Noura, Just FYI, your tank holds 28.84 gallons. Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 46999	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

The smaller tank would be less likely to have problems with some of it hanging off the edge, than the larger tank. I WOULD NOT have a 30G tank without it being fully supported. Further, there would be less water to clean up if the smaller tank starts to leak. ;-) IF you have no other choice then to use your proposed set up, then you should get a piece of at least 5/8" plywood or 1/2" hard wood (Oak) boarding and put that down first and then put the tank on top of that. The 3.5" of hard wood would be sticking out off of the table but would be providing additional support to the bottom of the tank and since only around 10% of the wood would be sticking out off the edge, the tanks weight would hold it firmly to the desk for the other 90% of the wood. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Kenyi Cichlid Thanks Ray, for some reason I imagined it would make more "gallons". Since you're volunteering to do the math, here's something to consult you about. I'm placing this new tank on a suitable wooden desk, hard and stable, but the best display solution is to put it side by side next to my 6 gallon guppy fry tank, which leaves about 3.5" of the tank's length unsupported. but the tank's side will be completely "leaning" on the wall. To help you imagine the situation, there are 3.5 inches of space between the desk and the wall, and the tank's bottom will be the "bridge" between them. This 3.5" doesn't hold any rock work or heavy decorations. Is it okey to keep it hanging out? It's 1/4" thick glass. As I said, as for the view, it is much better this way than to make the two tanks in L shape. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Hi Noura, Just FYI, your tank holds 28.84 gallons. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47000	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

I would agree with Amber. Tanks are made to have even support all around the entire frame. I worry about having even my 20G fully supported on a large sturdy desk with no other tank and no heavy décor. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Kenyi Cichlid I'm going to bet that Ray will say that all sides (the rim around the edge of the tank) should all be equally supported. You don't want that tank tipping over if that desk falls over ;) LOL. Amber Noura wrote: > > Thanks Ray, for some reason I imagined it would make more "gallons". > Since you're volunteering to do the math, here's something to consult > you about. > I'm placing this new tank on a suitable wooden desk, hard and stable, > but the best display solution is to put it side by side next to my 6 > gallon guppy fry tank, which leaves about 3.5" of the tank's length > unsupported. but the tank's side will be completely "leaning" on the > wall. To help you imagine the situation, there are 3.5 inches of space > between the desk and the wall, and the tank's bottom will be the > "bridge" between them. > > This 3.5" doesn't hold any rock work or heavy decorations. Is it okey > to keep it hanging out? It's 1/4" thick glass. > As I said, as for the view, it is much better this way than to make > the two tanks in L shape. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > Hi Noura, Just FYI, your tank holds 28.84 gallons. Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47001	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/1/2010
Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichli

I broke this off into a new thread, which one of us should have done a long time ago. A different color pattern on a fish does not make a new subspecies. The same would be true with a dog. The different breeds (read varieties) do not make a subspecies because they are still the same underneath. Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species. I'll look up that reference on close populations of different species hybridizing in the wild later tonight. My supper is ready now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Well, I could agree with that but they give a sub-species scientific name to ALL dogs as a group (Canis lupus familiaris) without going any further for all of the different breeds. They say that all domestic dogs are descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, but if they are all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then they shouldn't have given the sub-species of familiaris. If they aren't all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then each should have their own sub-species designation. The more I read about all this, my eyes are about to spew blood. LOL I think many of these so-called experts might be in the same league as AlGore. Too many of them probably consider Darwin's Theory of Evolution as pure fact, which it isn't and even Darwin admitted it later in his life, but if a scientist believes a theory to be a fact and then bases their studies on that theory, all of their research is even further flawed. They ALL need to go back to the K.I.S.S. system... and now I'm beginning to think it should be Keep It Simple, Stupid! instead of Keep It Simple, Scientists! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) versus wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not given a scientific name. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different breeds should probably have different species names under their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. They could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed like dogs and cats do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47002	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Noura, The water in your tank will weigh almost 240 pounds, and that doesn't include the weight of the tank. I wouldn't leave any of the bottom unsupported even if if didn't spring a leak (presently!). Slightly more than 24 pounds of water and tank will be left unsupported if you did this, presenting a constant cantilever-force strain on the integrity of the tank's construction. With the tank side (end) butted right up against the wall, this should help in decreasing any downward force, but it's always best to support a tank completely from the bottom. Houses and their walls have a way of shifting (or "breathing") throughout different seasons, with variations of temperature and humidity. If a gap of only 1/32" occurs between the wall and the end of your tank, that end of your tank will be completely on its own as far as being supported. I would not want to see any of the seams fail on you in a year or two from now. If you can't relocate your 6 gallon fry tank, I'd suggest buying a piece of 3/4" plywood (preferably "marine-grade," as it's waterproof) the same width of your desk and 3.75" longer to accomodate the full length of the tank as a full-length support. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47003	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf? Is common man really that evil/Frankenstein-ish to take a perfectly normal looking creature and turn it into something so far removed? I could understand if it was an anomaly, rather than the norm. Even fancy goldfish still look somewhat like a goldfish but with the inbred birth defects. And cats still mostly look the same but there are so many varieties of dogs that I find it hard to believe they are all man-made from the gray wolf. Further, \\Steve// said, "Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species" (when talking about domestic dogs), but if that was the benchmark or even one of them, then these cichlids would easily fall under that same benchmark as they look FAR CLOSER to each other than the various breeds of dogs compare to a gray wolf. I can see German Shepherds, Huskies, etc., being close descendants and possibly man-made breeds from a gray wolf but the stretch to the outer extremes of many common dog breeds leave me wondering. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I broke this off into a new thread, which one of us should have done a long time ago. A different color pattern on a fish does not make a new subspecies. The same would be true with a dog. The different breeds (read varieties) do not make a subspecies because they are still the same underneath. Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species. I'll look up that reference on close populations of different species hybridizing in the wild later tonight. My supper is ready now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Well, I could agree with that but they give a sub-species scientific name to ALL dogs as a group (Canis lupus familiaris) without going any further for all of the different breeds. They say that all domestic dogs are descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, but if they are all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then they shouldn't have given the sub-species of familiaris. If they aren't all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then each should have their own sub-species designation. The more I read about all this, my eyes are about to spew blood. LOL I think many of these so-called experts might be in the same league as AlGore. Too many of them probably consider Darwin's Theory of Evolution as pure fact, which it isn't and even Darwin admitted it later in his life, but if a scientist believes a theory to be a fact and then bases their studies on that theory, all of their research is even further flawed. They ALL need to go back to the K.I.S.S. system... and now I'm beginning to think it should be Keep It Simple, Stupid! instead of Keep It Simple, Scientists! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) versus wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not given a scientific name. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different breeds should probably have different species names under their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. They could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed like dogs and cats do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47004	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

Here is the abstract for the article I mentioned: Copeia Article: pp. 758-773 | Full Text | PDF (461K) Patterns of Natural Hybridization in Darters (Percidae: Etheostomatinae) Benjamin P. Keck1 and Thomas J. Near2 Hybridization is an evolutionarily important process with varied outcomes that depend on interacting factors of time since common ancestry, behavioral differences, and environmental conditions. Hybridization is relatively common in teleost fishes, and patterns from naturally occurring hybrids and experimental interspecific crosses provide insight into the evolution of reproductive barriers that lead to speciation. It has been several decades since records of hybrid darter specimens (Percidae: Etheostomatinae) have been collected and analyzed. We assembled a dataset of 252 reported natural hybrids from museum collections and literature reports that comprise 67 unique hybrid combinations involving 63 darter species. Frequencies of unique hybrid combinations decrease with phylogenetic distance and are lower between species with different egg deposition behaviors. Large range size and egg burying reproductive behavior were characteristics of the species most frequently identified as a parental species of hybrid specimens. Evidence of genetic introgression was not consistently predicted by the frequency of records for a particular hybrid combination. This dataset likely underestimates the amount of hybridization that has occurred among darter species, because of the relatively narrow evolutionary time frame during which specimens have been collected and identified. Received: January 9, 2009; Accepted: June 9, 2009 DOI: 10.1643/CI-09-008 Associate Editor: D. Buth. 1 Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut 06520; E-mail: benjamin.keck@.... Send reprint requests to this address. 2 Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology and Peabody Museum of Natural History, Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut 06520; E-mail: thomas.near@.... It is found in 2009, No. 4, December 29. You can find it at http://www.asihcopeiaonline.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1643%2 FCI-09-008 http://tinyurl.com/yd2fqaq but you need to be a subscriber to access it. Check with your local library to see if they can get a copy for you. The article itself is 16 pages. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf? Is common man really that evil/Frankenstein-ish to take a perfectly normal looking creature and turn it into something so far removed? I could understand if it was an anomaly, rather than the norm. Even fancy goldfish still look somewhat like a goldfish but with the inbred birth defects. And cats still mostly look the same but there are so many varieties of dogs that I find it hard to believe they are all man-made from the gray wolf. Further, \\Steve// said, "Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species" (when talking about domestic dogs), but if that was the benchmark or even one of them, then these cichlids would easily fall under that same benchmark as they look FAR CLOSER to each other than the various breeds of dogs compare to a gray wolf. I can see German Shepherds, Huskies, etc., being close descendants and possibly man-made breeds from a gray wolf but the stretch to the outer extremes of many common dog breeds leave me wondering. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I broke this off into a new thread, which one of us should have done a long time ago. A different color pattern on a fish does not make a new subspecies. The same would be true with a dog. The different breeds (read varieties) do not make a subspecies because they are still the same underneath. Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species. I'll look up that reference on close populations of different species hybridizing in the wild later tonight. My supper is ready now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Well, I could agree with that but they give a sub-species scientific name to ALL dogs as a group (Canis lupus familiaris) without going any further for all of the different breeds. They say that all domestic dogs are descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, but if they are all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then they shouldn't have given the sub-species of familiaris. If they aren't all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then each should have their own sub-species designation. The more I read about all this, my eyes are about to spew blood. LOL I think many of these so-called experts might be in the same league as AlGore. Too many of them probably consider Darwin's Theory of Evolution as pure fact, which it isn't and even Darwin admitted it later in his life, but if a scientist believes a theory to be a fact and then bases their studies on that theory, all of their research is even further flawed. They ALL need to go back to the K.I.S.S. system... and now I'm beginning to think it should be Keep It Simple, Stupid! instead of Keep It Simple, Scientists! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) versus wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not given a scientific name. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different breeds should probably have different species names under their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. They could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed like dogs and cats do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47005	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

That article is talking about crosses/hybrids within the same Genus, Etheostomatinae, not cross-Genera breeding. I think we all agree that inter-Genus breeding/hybridization is easily done but cross-Genera breeding/hybridization still *should NOT* be easily done and should be an exception, rather than a norm when it happens. For that reason, I stand by my earlier assertions that there likely has been overzealous use of different and/or new Genera for species that should probably have been within the same Genus... and possibly, even when a otherwise rare cross-Genera hybrid happens anywhere else in the animal kingdom, there could also be human error where one of these species were mis-classified into the wrong Genus. I think I'm going to send this thread to the Nobel Committee for consideration. Heck, if AlGore can get one for his global warming theories based on junk science, I can get one for my theories based on real science! Besides, I could use the million bucks more than him. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Here is the abstract for the article I mentioned: Copeia Article: pp. 758-773 | Full Text | PDF (461K) Patterns of Natural Hybridization in Darters (Percidae: Etheostomatinae) Benjamin P. Keck1 and Thomas J. Near2 Hybridization is an evolutionarily important process with varied outcomes that depend on interacting factors of time since common ancestry, behavioral differences, and environmental conditions. Hybridization is relatively common in teleost fishes, and patterns from naturally occurring hybrids and experimental interspecific crosses provide insight into the evolution of reproductive barriers that lead to speciation. It has been several decades since records of hybrid darter specimens (Percidae: Etheostomatinae) have been collected and analyzed. We assembled a dataset of 252 reported natural hybrids from museum collections and literature reports that comprise 67 unique hybrid combinations involving 63 darter species. Frequencies of unique hybrid combinations decrease with phylogenetic distance and are lower between species with different egg deposition behaviors. Large range size and egg burying reproductive behavior were characteristics of the species most frequently identified as a parental species of hybrid specimens. Evidence of genetic introgression was not consistently predicted by the frequency of records for a particular hybrid combination. This dataset likely underestimates the amount of hybridization that has occurred among darter species, because of the relatively narrow evolutionary time frame during which specimens have been collected and identified. Received: January 9, 2009; Accepted: June 9, 2009 DOI: 10.1643/CI-09-008 Associate Editor: D. Buth. 1 Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut 06520; E-mail: benjamin.keck@.... Send reprint requests to this address. 2 Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology and Peabody Museum of Natural History, Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut 06520; E-mail: thomas.near@.... It is found in 2009, No. 4, December 29. You can find it at http://www.asihcopeiaonline.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1643%2 FCI-09-008 http://tinyurl.com/yd2fqaq but you need to be a subscriber to access it. Check with your local library to see if they can get a copy for you. The article itself is 16 pages. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf? Is common man really that evil/Frankenstein-ish to take a perfectly normal looking creature and turn it into something so far removed? I could understand if it was an anomaly, rather than the norm. Even fancy goldfish still look somewhat like a goldfish but with the inbred birth defects. And cats still mostly look the same but there are so many varieties of dogs that I find it hard to believe they are all man-made from the gray wolf. Further, \\Steve// said, "Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species" (when talking about domestic dogs), but if that was the benchmark or even one of them, then these cichlids would easily fall under that same benchmark as they look FAR CLOSER to each other than the various breeds of dogs compare to a gray wolf. I can see German Shepherds, Huskies, etc., being close descendants and possibly man-made breeds from a gray wolf but the stretch to the outer extremes of many common dog breeds leave me wondering. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I broke this off into a new thread, which one of us should have done a long time ago. A different color pattern on a fish does not make a new subspecies. The same would be true with a dog. The different breeds (read varieties) do not make a subspecies because they are still the same underneath. Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species. I'll look up that reference on close populations of different species hybridizing in the wild later tonight. My supper is ready now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Well, I could agree with that but they give a sub-species scientific name to ALL dogs as a group (Canis lupus familiaris) without going any further for all of the different breeds. They say that all domestic dogs are descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, but if they are all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then they shouldn't have given the sub-species of familiaris. If they aren't all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then each should have their own sub-species designation. The more I read about all this, my eyes are about to spew blood. LOL I think many of these so-called experts might be in the same league as AlGore. Too many of them probably consider Darwin's Theory of Evolution as pure fact, which it isn't and even Darwin admitted it later in his life, but if a scientist believes a theory to be a fact and then bases their studies on that theory, all of their research is even further flawed. They ALL need to go back to the K.I.S.S. system... and now I'm beginning to think it should be Keep It Simple, Stupid! instead of Keep It Simple, Scientists! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) versus wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not given a scientific name. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different breeds should probably have different species names under their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. They could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed like dogs and cats do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47006	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

Wolves are not the only wild "dogs" (canines) in the world, there are others that could have possibly been the first "domestic" version of dogs in various parts of the world. Breed something and inbreed it long enough and I can imagine it looking very different, look at movies like "The Hills have Eyes" LOL. ;) (Just kidding there). I can just see it as possible to have gotten the different breeds of dogs from various wild "dogs" that now have set looks from having evolved long past their domesticated versions and no longer look alike. Just thought I'd add a thought to this on-going conversation ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a > Dachshund or a > Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf? Is > common man really that evil/Frankenstein-ish to take a perfectly normal > looking creature and turn it into something so far removed? I could > understand if it was an anomaly, rather than the norm. > > Even fancy goldfish still look somewhat like a goldfish but with the > inbred > birth defects. > > And cats still mostly look the same but there are so many varieties of > dogs > that I find it hard to believe they are all man-made from the gray wolf. > > Further, \\Steve// said, "Not enough vital differences to declare a valid > subspecies or, even, species" (when talking about domestic dogs), but if > that was the benchmark or even one of them, then these cichlids would > easily > fall under that same benchmark as they look FAR CLOSER to each other than > the various breeds of dogs compare to a gray wolf. I can see German > Shepherds, Huskies, etc., being close descendants and possibly man-made > breeds from a gray wolf but the stretch to the outer extremes of many > common > dog breeds leave me wondering. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi > Cichlid > > I broke this off into a new thread, which one of us should have done a > long > time ago. > > A different color pattern on a fish does not make a new subspecies. > The same > would be true with a dog. The different breeds (read varieties) do not > make > a subspecies because they are still the same underneath. Not enough vital > differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species. > > I'll look up that reference on close populations of different species > hybridizing in the wild later tonight. My supper is ready now. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > Well, I could agree with that but they give a sub-species scientific > name to > ALL dogs as a group (Canis lupus familiaris) without going any further for > all of the different breeds. They say that all domestic dogs are > descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, but if they are all man-made > hybrids/inbreds/etc., then they shouldn't have given the sub-species of > familiaris. If they aren't all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then each > should have their own sub-species designation. The more I read about all > this, my eyes are about to spew blood. LOL I think many of these so-called > experts might be in the same league as AlGore. Too many of them probably > consider Darwin's Theory of Evolution as pure fact, which it isn't and > even > Darwin admitted it later in his life, but if a scientist believes a theory > to be a fact and then bases their studies on that theory, all of their > research is even further flawed. > > They ALL need to go back to the K.I.S.S. system... and now I'm > beginning to > think it should be Keep It Simple, Stupid! instead of Keep It Simple, > Scientists! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:09 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) versus > wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not given a > scientific name. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different > Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to > understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to > create so > many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same > Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. > > As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper > scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of > what > is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different > breeds should probably have different species names under their respective > Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua > or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis > lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if > not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts > say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis > lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single > sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the > inbred > morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single > scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the > fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with > specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. > I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or > cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly > even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. > They > could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus > saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate > sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed > like dogs > and cats do. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake > annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same > behavior > year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one > Lenny! > > But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would > still > want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So > having > the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate > it. > > It's been a fun discussion! > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? > Sounds > like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous > creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly > classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of > classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and > eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right > twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me > to be > a taxonomist? :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any > articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new > behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only > females > observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and > realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an > overzealous > use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is > that any > animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal > should not > be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those > rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in > classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should > likely have > been in the same Genera. > > We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit > they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and > attempts to > hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same > applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong > Genera. > We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are > CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in > the first place... or did they make the mistake in the > re-classification... > or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? > > It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... > and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can > breed > with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and > sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If > two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake > was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same > Genera. > > If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would > know > that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish > separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could > mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different > Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, > it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera > breed. > You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco > hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. > > All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple > Scientists!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply > are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wmconnect.com > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these > Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) > that I > described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different > Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the > wild. > > Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy > bottoms > as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as > Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no > need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They > prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is > -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, > belong > to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- > as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and > invertibrates > found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as > that's life > to them. > The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across > sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one > rocky > area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. > > Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own > rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically > non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their > evolution. > If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, > but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only > in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several > square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the > size of the Lake. > Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square > miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one > large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a > certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these > somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another > species > as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. > The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would > tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47007	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

Lenny, Actually, some of the data used shows crosses between genera, which is rare, but it does occur in the wild. You really need to find a copy of the article. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid That article is talking about crosses/hybrids within the same Genus, Etheostomatinae, not cross-Genera breeding. I think we all agree that inter-Genus breeding/hybridization is easily done but cross-Genera breeding/hybridization still *should NOT* be easily done and should be an exception, rather than a norm when it happens. For that reason, I stand by my earlier assertions that there likely has been overzealous use of different and/or new Genera for species that should probably have been within the same Genus... and possibly, even when a otherwise rare cross-Genera hybrid happens anywhere else in the animal kingdom, there could also be human error where one of these species were mis-classified into the wrong Genus. I think I'm going to send this thread to the Nobel Committee for consideration. Heck, if AlGore can get one for his global warming theories based on junk science, I can get one for my theories based on real science! Besides, I could use the million bucks more than him. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Here is the abstract for the article I mentioned: Copeia Article: pp. 758-773 | Full Text | PDF (461K) Patterns of Natural Hybridization in Darters (Percidae: Etheostomatinae) Benjamin P. Keck1 and Thomas J. Near2 Hybridization is an evolutionarily important process with varied outcomes that depend on interacting factors of time since common ancestry, behavioral differences, and environmental conditions. Hybridization is relatively common in teleost fishes, and patterns from naturally occurring hybrids and experimental interspecific crosses provide insight into the evolution of reproductive barriers that lead to speciation. It has been several decades since records of hybrid darter specimens (Percidae: Etheostomatinae) have been collected and analyzed. We assembled a dataset of 252 reported natural hybrids from museum collections and literature reports that comprise 67 unique hybrid combinations involving 63 darter species. Frequencies of unique hybrid combinations decrease with phylogenetic distance and are lower between species with different egg deposition behaviors. Large range size and egg burying reproductive behavior were characteristics of the species most frequently identified as a parental species of hybrid specimens. Evidence of genetic introgression was not consistently predicted by the frequency of records for a particular hybrid combination. This dataset likely underestimates the amount of hybridization that has occurred among darter species, because of the relatively narrow evolutionary time frame during which specimens have been collected and identified. Received: January 9, 2009; Accepted: June 9, 2009 DOI: 10.1643/CI-09-008 Associate Editor: D. Buth. 1 Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut 06520; E-mail: benjamin.keck@.... Send reprint requests to this address. 2 Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology and Peabody Museum of Natural History, Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut 06520; E-mail: thomas.near@.... It is found in 2009, No. 4, December 29. You can find it at http://www.asihcopeiaonline.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1643%2 FCI-09-008 http://tinyurl.com/yd2fqaq but you need to be a subscriber to access it. Check with your local library to see if they can get a copy for you. The article itself is 16 pages. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf? Is common man really that evil/Frankenstein-ish to take a perfectly normal looking creature and turn it into something so far removed? I could understand if it was an anomaly, rather than the norm. Even fancy goldfish still look somewhat like a goldfish but with the inbred birth defects. And cats still mostly look the same but there are so many varieties of dogs that I find it hard to believe they are all man-made from the gray wolf. Further, \\Steve// said, "Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species" (when talking about domestic dogs), but if that was the benchmark or even one of them, then these cichlids would easily fall under that same benchmark as they look FAR CLOSER to each other than the various breeds of dogs compare to a gray wolf. I can see German Shepherds, Huskies, etc., being close descendants and possibly man-made breeds from a gray wolf but the stretch to the outer extremes of many common dog breeds leave me wondering. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I broke this off into a new thread, which one of us should have done a long time ago. A different color pattern on a fish does not make a new subspecies. The same would be true with a dog. The different breeds (read varieties) do not make a subspecies because they are still the same underneath. Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species. I'll look up that reference on close populations of different species hybridizing in the wild later tonight. My supper is ready now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Well, I could agree with that but they give a sub-species scientific name to ALL dogs as a group (Canis lupus familiaris) without going any further for all of the different breeds. They say that all domestic dogs are descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, but if they are all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then they shouldn't have given the sub-species of familiaris. If they aren't all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then each should have their own sub-species designation. The more I read about all this, my eyes are about to spew blood. LOL I think many of these so-called experts might be in the same league as AlGore. Too many of them probably consider Darwin's Theory of Evolution as pure fact, which it isn't and even Darwin admitted it later in his life, but if a scientist believes a theory to be a fact and then bases their studies on that theory, all of their research is even further flawed. They ALL need to go back to the K.I.S.S. system... and now I'm beginning to think it should be Keep It Simple, Stupid! instead of Keep It Simple, Scientists! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) versus wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not given a scientific name. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different breeds should probably have different species names under their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. They could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed like dogs and cats do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47008	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

Correct. Gray Wolves are not the only original canine (*dog*), there are many others under Canidae Family, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canidae and even many species under the Canis Genus, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canis ... but the Gray Wolf is the only species called Canis lupus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf and then the so-called experts have determined that ALL other domestic dogs (hundreds of different breeds) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog are classified as THE SAME sub-species Canis lupus familiaris. If they were to say that some domestic dogs are cross breeds of different species under the Canis Genus, then I might be more inclined to believe it but since the ONLY species in the hierarchy of the domestic dog, Canis lupus familiaris, is the Gray Wolf, Canis lupus, I simply have a hard time believing that Weiner Dog's, Shit-tzu's and those butt-ugly Chinese chihuahua looking dogs with almost no hair and scraggly teeth are ALL inbreeds of gray wolves, gone wrong. Like I said earlier, a German Shepherd and a Husky, yes, they are similar enough to make me believe that but these other domestic dogs are obviously either separate sub-species or hybrids or inbreeds of other species, not just of gray wolves. After all, all of these domestic dogs have been around long before Chernobyl or other man-made radioactive disasters... unless a large group of wolves decided to set up breeding grounds over a natural radioactive field causing massive birth defects and then all these deformed dogs started inbreeding with more exposure to the radioactive field and then you get these abnormal looking *domestic dogs* as direct descendants of the gray wolf. Of course, I'm being sarcastic with this paragraph since I don't believe this could have happened... but if others think it could have, nominate me for my theories here... http://nobelprize.org/ Don't make me nominate myself using an alias. ;-) Oh yeah.. don't do it this week either since they are celebrating International Woman's Day and last time I checked, I didn't qualify during that week. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Wolves are not the only wild "dogs" (canines) in the world, there are others that could have possibly been the first "domestic" version of dogs in various parts of the world. Breed something and inbreed it long enough and I can imagine it looking very different, look at movies like "The Hills have Eyes" LOL. ;) (Just kidding there). I can just see it as possible to have gotten the different breeds of dogs from various wild "dogs" that now have set looks from having evolved long past their domesticated versions and no longer look alike. Just thought I'd add a thought to this on-going conversation ;) LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a > Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds > from a gray wolf? Is common man really that evil/Frankenstein-ish to > take a perfectly normal looking creature and turn it into something so > far removed? I could understand if it was an anomaly, rather than the > norm. > > Even fancy goldfish still look somewhat like a goldfish but with the > inbred birth defects. > > And cats still mostly look the same but there are so many varieties of > dogs that I find it hard to believe they are all man-made from the > gray wolf. > > Further, \\Steve// said, "Not enough vital differences to declare a > valid subspecies or, even, species" (when talking about domestic > dogs), but if that was the benchmark or even one of them, then these > cichlids would easily fall under that same benchmark as they look FAR > CLOSER to each other than the various breeds of dogs compare to a gray > wolf. I can see German Shepherds, Huskies, etc., being close > descendants and possibly man-made breeds from a gray wolf but the > stretch to the outer extremes of many common dog breeds leave me > wondering. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi > Cichlid > > I broke this off into a new thread, which one of us should have done a > long time ago. > > A different color pattern on a fish does not make a new subspecies. > The same > would be true with a dog. The different breeds (read varieties) do not > make a subspecies because they are still the same underneath. Not > enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, > species. > > I'll look up that reference on close populations of different species > hybridizing in the wild later tonight. My supper is ready now. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > Well, I could agree with that but they give a sub-species scientific > name to ALL dogs as a group (Canis lupus familiaris) without going any > further for all of the different breeds. They say that all domestic > dogs are descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, but if they are > all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then they shouldn't have given the > sub-species of familiaris. If they aren't all man-made > hybrids/inbreds/etc., then each should have their own sub-species > designation. The more I read about all this, my eyes are about to spew > blood. LOL I think many of these so-called experts might be in the > same league as AlGore. Too many of them probably consider Darwin's > Theory of Evolution as pure fact, which it isn't and even Darwin > admitted it later in his life, but if a scientist believes a theory to > be a fact and then bases their studies on that theory, all of their > research is even further flawed. > > They ALL need to go back to the K.I.S.S. system... and now I'm > beginning to think it should be Keep It Simple, Stupid! instead of > Keep It Simple, Scientists! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:09 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) > versus wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not > given a scientific name. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different > Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to > understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to > create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall > under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. > > As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper > scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of > what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of > different breeds should probably have different species names under > their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic > dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a > Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a > ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of > different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all > domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, > and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single > sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the > inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a > single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct > since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally > bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm > in any offspring. > I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs > or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or > possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. > They > could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis > lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them > separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily > inter-breed like dogs and cats do. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake > annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same > behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are > a tough one Lenny! > > But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would > still want to preserve the individual populations as they have > evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify > them so I appreciate it. > > It's been a fun discussion! > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? > Sounds > like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by > overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts > to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock > theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as > possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped > clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would > that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above > reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes > new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had > only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish > spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an > overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The > simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera > from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when > it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, > it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in > separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. > > We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to > admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and > attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) > so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new > Genera or wrong Genera. > We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are > CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes > in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the > re-classification... > or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? > > It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... > and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can > breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different > species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's > simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to > inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need > to be reclassified into the same Genera. > > If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would > know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep > those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which > fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish > come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks > mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do > sometimes cross-Genera breed. > You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a > Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. > > All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple > Scientists!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. > <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > wmconnect.com > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid > > I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of > these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x > Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two > fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to > breed with each other in the wild. > > Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy > bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants > such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. > They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there > for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where > they know where it is > -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, > belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the > rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the > algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from > their food source as that's life to them. > The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out > across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel > from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. > > Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their > own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically > non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their > evolution. > If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the > Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are > found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an > area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule > when compared to the size of the Lake. > Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many > square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species > inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be > found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any > interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't > need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the > opportunity to breed within their own species. > The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior > would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47009	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

Awwww... don't be a hater \\Steve//. You have to come up with your whacked-out theory and get your own Nobel Prize. ;-) I'm even working on an AlGore-esque email address to submit my nomination under so it might carry more weight. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Lenny, Actually, some of the data used shows crosses between genera, which is rare, but it does occur in the wild. You really need to find a copy of the article. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid That article is talking about crosses/hybrids within the same Genus, Etheostomatinae, not cross-Genera breeding. I think we all agree that inter-Genus breeding/hybridization is easily done but cross-Genera breeding/hybridization still *should NOT* be easily done and should be an exception, rather than a norm when it happens. For that reason, I stand by my earlier assertions that there likely has been overzealous use of different and/or new Genera for species that should probably have been within the same Genus... and possibly, even when a otherwise rare cross-Genera hybrid happens anywhere else in the animal kingdom, there could also be human error where one of these species were mis-classified into the wrong Genus. I think I'm going to send this thread to the Nobel Committee for consideration. Heck, if AlGore can get one for his global warming theories based on junk science, I can get one for my theories based on real science! Besides, I could use the million bucks more than him. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Here is the abstract for the article I mentioned: Copeia Article: pp. 758-773 | Full Text | PDF (461K) Patterns of Natural Hybridization in Darters (Percidae: Etheostomatinae) Benjamin P. Keck1 and Thomas J. Near2 Hybridization is an evolutionarily important process with varied outcomes that depend on interacting factors of time since common ancestry, behavioral differences, and environmental conditions. Hybridization is relatively common in teleost fishes, and patterns from naturally occurring hybrids and experimental interspecific crosses provide insight into the evolution of reproductive barriers that lead to speciation. It has been several decades since records of hybrid darter specimens (Percidae: Etheostomatinae) have been collected and analyzed. We assembled a dataset of 252 reported natural hybrids from museum collections and literature reports that comprise 67 unique hybrid combinations involving 63 darter species. Frequencies of unique hybrid combinations decrease with phylogenetic distance and are lower between species with different egg deposition behaviors. Large range size and egg burying reproductive behavior were characteristics of the species most frequently identified as a parental species of hybrid specimens. Evidence of genetic introgression was not consistently predicted by the frequency of records for a particular hybrid combination. This dataset likely underestimates the amount of hybridization that has occurred among darter species, because of the relatively narrow evolutionary time frame during which specimens have been collected and identified. Received: January 9, 2009; Accepted: June 9, 2009 DOI: 10.1643/CI-09-008 Associate Editor: D. Buth. 1 Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut 06520; E-mail: benjamin.keck@.... Send reprint requests to this address. 2 Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology and Peabody Museum of Natural History, Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut 06520; E-mail: thomas.near@.... It is found in 2009, No. 4, December 29. You can find it at http://www.asihcopeiaonline.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1643%2 FCI-09-008 http://tinyurl.com/yd2fqaq but you need to be a subscriber to access it. Check with your local library to see if they can get a copy for you. The article itself is 16 pages. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf? Is common man really that evil/Frankenstein-ish to take a perfectly normal looking creature and turn it into something so far removed? I could understand if it was an anomaly, rather than the norm. Even fancy goldfish still look somewhat like a goldfish but with the inbred birth defects. And cats still mostly look the same but there are so many varieties of dogs that I find it hard to believe they are all man-made from the gray wolf. Further, \\Steve// said, "Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species" (when talking about domestic dogs), but if that was the benchmark or even one of them, then these cichlids would easily fall under that same benchmark as they look FAR CLOSER to each other than the various breeds of dogs compare to a gray wolf. I can see German Shepherds, Huskies, etc., being close descendants and possibly man-made breeds from a gray wolf but the stretch to the outer extremes of many common dog breeds leave me wondering. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I broke this off into a new thread, which one of us should have done a long time ago. A different color pattern on a fish does not make a new subspecies. The same would be true with a dog. The different breeds (read varieties) do not make a subspecies because they are still the same underneath. Not enough vital differences to declare a valid subspecies or, even, species. I'll look up that reference on close populations of different species hybridizing in the wild later tonight. My supper is ready now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Well, I could agree with that but they give a sub-species scientific name to ALL dogs as a group (Canis lupus familiaris) without going any further for all of the different breeds. They say that all domestic dogs are descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, but if they are all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then they shouldn't have given the sub-species of familiaris. If they aren't all man-made hybrids/inbreds/etc., then each should have their own sub-species designation. The more I read about all this, my eyes are about to spew blood. LOL I think many of these so-called experts might be in the same league as AlGore. Too many of them probably consider Darwin's Theory of Evolution as pure fact, which it isn't and even Darwin admitted it later in his life, but if a scientist believes a theory to be a fact and then bases their studies on that theory, all of their research is even further flawed. They ALL need to go back to the K.I.S.S. system... and now I'm beginning to think it should be Keep It Simple, Stupid! instead of Keep It Simple, Scientists! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I thought the difference was domestic animals (no scientific name) versus wild animals. For example man-made hybrid cichlids are not given a scientific name. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I agree with having separate species names, just not all the different Genera for fish that easily inter-breed. To me, it's too simple to understand that and I'm not sure why so-called scientists want to create so many different Genera for fish that should probably fall under the same Genera... if in fact, they do inter-breed so easily. As a furtherance of my belief that each species should have a proper scientific name, and on the completely opposite end of the spectrum of what is happening to these cichlids, the domestic dogs and cats of different breeds should probably have different species names under their respective Genera and they don't. For example, all domestic dogs, whether a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard or a German Shepherd or a Dachshund, all fall under Canis lupus familiaris, which is a ridiculous scientific name for the dozens (if not hundreds) of different recognized breeds of domestic dogs. The experts say that all domesticated dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, and presumably are all just morphs that fall into the single sub-species, Canis lupus familiaris. This would be akin to all of the inbred morphs/birth defects of fancy goldfish that all fall under a single scientific name but in that case, I believe they are correct since all the fancy goldfish are inbred fish where man intentionally bred fish with specific birth defects until the defect became the norm in any offspring. I'm not sure that the different dogs and cats were all man-made morphs or cross-breeds so I believe the scientists were under-zealous (or possibly even lazy) in that instance of lumping them all into the same species. They could have been given names like Canis lupus Chihuahuaus or Canis lupus saintbernardus or something like that instead of not giving them separate sub-specie names... same with the cichlids that easily inter-breed like dogs and cats do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I guess you know if the classification is correct if you dive the lake annually for 10-20 more years and you continue to observe the same behavior year after year and you don't find out anything new. You are a tough one Lenny! But you know what? Even if there was one genus in Lake Malawi I would still want to preserve the individual populations as they have evolved. So having the separate species names just helps me identify them so I appreciate it. It's been a fun discussion! _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid So... how do you ever know if or when the classification is correct? Sounds like Konings is one of those that are creating the problems by overzealous creation of new or wrong Genera before having enough facts to properly classify a species. It sounds like the "stopped clock theory of classification". Keep classifying as many and as often as possible and eventually you'll get a few right... like even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Of course, I could be wrong... would that qualify me to be a taxonomist? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Konings changes his classifications from book to book as he observes new behaviors. For example he had a Melanochromis 'brown' that had only females observed. During a subsequent trip he observed the fish spawning and realized they were Metriaclima sp. Chinyankwazi females. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:08 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid All of this seems to support my assertion that there has been an overzealous use of making up too many Genera for these fish. The simple fact is that any animal (or human) that is a different Genera from another animal should not be able to cross-breed. It's rare when it happens in Mammals and in those rare cases where it has happened, it's likely due to human error in classifying the two species in separate Genera where they should likely have been in the same Genera. We all know that scientists (and most folks for that matter) HATE to admit they made a mistake (thus all the problems with climate-gate and attempts to hide or destroy data by those who support climate change) so the same applies to when they mis-classify a species in a new Genera or wrong Genera. We all know that, especially as far as fish are concerned, they are CONSTANTLY re-classifying fish species which proves they made mistakes in the first place... or did they make the mistake in the re-classification... or are both of them wrong and the right one has yet to surface? It would be a LOT easier for hobbyists to understand their fish species... and for the scientific community to classify if they put fish that can breed with each other in the same Genera and then used different species and sub-species like what is done with dogs, cats, etc. It's simple enough. If two fish have different Genera and are able to inter-breed, then a mistake was made and one or both of the fish need to be reclassified into the same Genera. If this was done, then hobbyists who buy fish in the same Genera would know that their fish might inter-breed and could take steps to keep those fish separate and on the same thought process, would know which fish they could mix and not have to worry about hybrids when the fish come from different Genera. Out of all of the fish species that folks mix up in their ponds, it's only the Koi and goldfish that can and do sometimes cross-Genera breed. You never see a goldfish-white cloud mountain minnow hybrid or a Koi-Pleco hybrid because those fish are in separate Genera and can't inter-breed. All of this falls under the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Scientists!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid I would only like to add, for those not well familiar with many of these Malawi Cichlids, that unlike the hybrid (Aulonocara x Labeotropheus) that I described as having been bred in captivity, two fish of such different Genera would never have that opportunity to breed with each other in the wild. Aulonocara (or, the "Peacock" group of Utaka) occur ONLY over sandy bottoms as that's were they get their food -- from nibbling plants such as Valisneria and sifting through the fine sand for other foods. They have no need to wander onto rocky areas as there is nothing there for them. They prefer to stay where they can search for food, where they know where it is -- throughout the sandy stretches. Labeotropheus, on the other hand, belong to that group called Mbuna, which are ONLY found within the rocky areas -- as that's were they get there food from nibbling the algae and invertibrates found in the algae. They do not wander from their food source as that's life to them. The sandy areas act as barriers to them as they won't venture out across sandy bottoms. It's for this reason that Mbunas won't travel from one rocky area to another as this barrier prevents such travel. Only in severe stormy situations might some Mbuna be swept from their own rocky area to another, but this is extremely seldom (practically non-existant), although it has happened over the course of their evolution. If it were prevalent, the same species would be found all around the Lake, but as it is, many species and most morphs of those species are found only in certain locations around the lake, sometimes only in an area of several square miles at the very most -- which is miniscule when compared to the size of the Lake. Many of these rocky areas as well as the sandy areas can be many square miles each, though. As there may be half a dozen species inhabiting one large rocky area, each has its own niche and may be found only within a certain band of depth. While there is seldom any interaction between these somewhat diverse species, too, they don't need to breed with another species as they don't lack for the opportunity to breed within their own species. The species specific coloration, signals, hormone scent and behavior would tend to prevent hybridization anyway. Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47010	From: Noura	Date: 3/2/2010
Subject: Re: Kenyi Cichlid

Lenny, Ray: Thanks for the useful ideas. I baught a 18 millimeter thick board (3/4"), about 2" wider than the tank, and slightly longer, I don't know what you call it but here we call it "Lateih", it looks quite hard, it's coated with "fermeka - a thin plastic layer" on both sides, and I isolated the uncoated thickness by two layers of transparent wide tape "I didn't want to create any thickness arount the edges that would affect the tank's level and support". I have also put a waterproof plastic cover all over the desk, right below the "tableclothe". I thought it will insure that no water will get trapped under the tank causing the wooden desk to rot and crack down. God forbid! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Kenyi Cichlid Noura, The water in your tank will weigh almost 240 pounds, and that doesn't include the weight of the tank. I wouldn't leave any of the bottom unsupported even if if didn't spring a leak (presently!). Slightly more than 24 pounds of water and tank will be left unsupported if you did this, presenting a constant cantilever-force strain on the integrity of the tank's construction. With the tank side (end) butted right up against the wall, this should help in decreasing any downward force, but it's always best to support a tank completely from the bottom. Houses and their walls have a way of shifting (or "breathing") throughout different seasons, with variations of temperature and humidity. If a gap of only 1/32" occurs between the wall and the end of your tank, that end of your tank will be completely on its own as far as being supported. I would not want to see any of the seams fail on you in a year or two from now. If you can't relocate your 6 gallon fry tank, I'd suggest buying a piece of 3/4" plywood (preferably "marine-grade," as it's waterproof) the same width of your desk and 3.75" longer to accomodate the full length of the tank as a full-length support. Ray </HTML> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (23) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 5 a.. New Photos 7 Visit Your Group Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47011	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: It's Not Easy Being Green

Changing the subject from what has dominated the list for the last couple of weeks... My 55g has turned to pea soup. Again. Ugh. It was very green last Thanksgiving. Then I had a Christmas Miracle and it cleared up all by itself. Now it's very green again. I can only assume that it's the angle of the sun. And now we have highly reflective snow on the ground so despite our usually gray and dreary days, it's too much UV bouncing around. The tank already has automotive window tinting on both of the short ends and a stick-on backing. What's next? Shortening the time that the lights are on? Down to what? (They're on a timer.) Oh, my poor fishies... living in a swamp. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47012	From: cobra427lady	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichli

In my ever so humble opinion, Lenny just single handedly caused Gregor Mendel and Charles Darwin to roll over in their graves :-) This is why I so love lurking this group.....there is always a chuckle posted by someone. Respectfully, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47013	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

Kai, What direction window exposure is the tank getting, and how many hours of direct sun (if any)? A southern exposure will of course give you the most outdoor light, whether diffused or direct. You may need to either install a solid background on the tank (and remove the auto window tinting), or install a shade or Venetian blinds on the window. With too much external natural lighting, cutting down on the artificial aquarium illumination may not be enough to control your algae, depending on the direction and the amount of this external light; the reflected light off of the snow only adds to this problem, as you've mentioned. Keep in mind too though that besides lighting, algae also needs nutrients to flourish. Perhaps you're overfeeding and/or you may not have enough live plants in the tank to outcompete the algae for food. Then too, you should check your tap water for nitrate. Also checking it for it's ammonia content as part of its chloramine addition would tell you if you're adding more nutrients (and how much) each time you make PWC's. By this, you can see that doing additional PWC's in attempts to remove this algae may not be the best route to go if it means you're just "feeding" the algae from your water supply. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47014	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

How long are the lights on for? How much lighting, lumens, watts, kind? Water parameters? Stocking levels? Tank maintenance and filter maintenance schedule? Lightly, mediumly (is that a word..lol.. I guess it would be moderately now that I think about it but thought I'd leave the "mediumly" in for comedic relief) or heavily planted? More input please. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 9:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] It's Not Easy Being Green Changing the subject from what has dominated the list for the last couple of weeks... My 55g has turned to pea soup. Again. Ugh. It was very green last Thanksgiving. Then I had a Christmas Miracle and it cleared up all by itself. Now it's very green again. I can only assume that it's the angle of the sun. And now we have highly reflective snow on the ground so despite our usually gray and dreary days, it's too much UV bouncing around. The tank already has automotive window tinting on both of the short ends and a stick-on backing. What's next? Shortening the time that the lights are on? Down to what? (They're on a timer.) Oh, my poor fishies... living in a swamp. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47015	From: bill 1433	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

You didn't say, but if the fish are OK and eating just increase your WC's a bit and don't panic.  Your right about the sunlight plus your tank lights, cut to 8 hours, if you haven't already.  Try blocking some of those natural UV's.   Bill --- On Wed, 3/3/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] It's Not Easy Being Green To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 10:59 AM Changing the subject from what has dominated the list for the last couple of weeks... My 55g has turned to pea soup.  Again.  Ugh. It was very green last Thanksgiving.  Then I had a Christmas Miracle and it cleared up all by itself.  Now it's very green again. I can only assume that it's the angle of the sun.  And now we have highly reflective snow on the ground so despite our usually gray and dreary days, it's too much UV bouncing around. The tank already has automotive window tinting on both of the short ends and a stick-on backing.  What's next?  Shortening the time that the lights are on?  Down to what?  (They're on a timer.) Oh, my poor fishies... living in a swamp. ~Kai ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47016	From: bill 1433	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

Hi Clare,   Although the comic-relief is often appreciated we sometime give good fish advice too.  Don't change that channel, and stay tuned!   Bill --- On Wed, 3/3/10, cobra427lady <clare@...> wrote: From: cobra427lady <clare@...> Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 11:09 AM In my ever so humble opinion, Lenny just single handedly caused Gregor Mendel and Charles Darwin to roll over in their graves :-)  This is why I so love lurking this group.....there is always a chuckle posted by someone. Respectfully, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf?  ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47017	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

Edu-tainment at it's finest! ;-) (Edu-tainment sounded better than Enter-cation... lol) But.... you didn't answer the question. LOL And Darwin should be rolling over in his grave after leaving us such a mess with so much elementary education being taught based on his Theory Of Evolution (AND so many people believing it to be scientific fact instead of realizing it's simply a theory... even though "Theory" is in the title), which in his later days, Darwin admitted, after a lifetime of research, he had no proof of it actually being true. This is akin to teaching the Flat Earth Theory without firmly advising that IT'S NOT TRUE!!! ;-) At least Mendel's work was substantiated by real science and is not just a theory. So... did you submit me for a Nobel Prize yet? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid In my ever so humble opinion, Lenny just single handedly caused Gregor Mendel and Charles Darwin to roll over in their graves :-) This is why I so love lurking this group.....there is always a chuckle posted by someone. Respectfully, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47018	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

The tank faces a windowless west wall. The southern side is a full room away from the living room window (translucent white lace drapes) and the northern side is only about 6 feet from the dining room slider (no covering at all.) Both north and south ends of the tank have window tinting. No direct sunlight, indirect only. There are no live plants in that tank because the tinfoils think they're a salad bar. Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and pH is always very close to neutral. We have well water so there's no chlorination or fluoridation. There hasn't been any change in their feeding or eating habits. I added a 2nd HOB filter after the Thanksgiving bloom and have stuck to my twice a month vacuuming/PWC pattern. I'm 90% sure that the problem is too much reflected sunlight from the snow, which will probably be with us 'til April. I guess my question is if there's anything I can do other than wait out the bloom. I don't want to cover the tank or put up darkening drapes. In general, I don't think it's particularly bright in that area of the house. Neither of the rooms are bright enough to read in without turning on a good reading lamp. But apparently it's bright enough to cultivate algae. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Kai, What direction window exposure is the tank getting, and how many hours of direct sun (if any)? A southern exposure will of course give you the most outdoor light, whether diffused or direct. You may need to either install a solid background on the tank (and remove the auto window tinting), or install a shade or Venetian blinds on the window. With too much external natural lighting, cutting down on the artificial aquarium illumination may not be enough to control your algae, depending on the direction and the amount of this external light; the reflected light off of the snow only adds to this problem, as you've mentioned. > > Keep in mind too though that besides lighting, algae also needs nutrients to flourish. Perhaps you're overfeeding and/or you may not have enough live plants in the tank to outcompete the algae for food. Then too, you should check your tap water for nitrate. Also checking it for it's ammonia content as part of its chloramine addition would tell you if you're adding more nutrients (and how much) each time you make PWC's. By this, you can see that doing additional PWC's in attempts to remove this algae may not be the best route to go if it means you're just "feeding" the algae from your water supply. > Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47019	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

The lights are usually on from 10am to 10pm. I'll cut that back even though it cuts into our "viewing time." They are two plain ol' 15w 18" fluorescents -- most likely the ones marked "aquarium" from Walmart. I vacuum* the tank twice a month on the 1st and 15th and take out a total of two or three 5-ish gallon bucketfuls of water. I'm still figuring out a good filter maintenance pattern since I added the 2nd HOB a few months ago. I cleaned them both last time and worried that I might have upset the water chemistry so this time, I just did one and I'll do the other on the 15th. They each have two "blue" cartridge filters and two mesh bio filters. *Available in 3 sizes, I cannot praise these vacuums highly enough: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 As I said, there are no live plants in that tank. There are two 4" disk bubblers that are quite aggressive. And (no scolding, Lenny) the tank is admittedly overstocked. But everyone seems to be healthy and happy despite the crowding and recent swamp-like conditions. I'm sure that the algae will be temporary. It just looks so ugly... ~Kai > Bill wrote: > > You didn't say, but if the fish are OK and eating just increase your WC's a bit and don't panic.  Your right about the sunlight plus your tank lights, cut to 8 hours, if you haven't already.  Try blocking some of those natural UV's. >   > Bill > Lenny wrote: > How long are the lights on for? How much lighting, lumens, watts, kind? Water parameters? Stocking levels? Tank maintenance and filter maintenance schedule? Lightly, mediumly (is that a word..lol.. I guess it would be moderately now that I think about it but thought I'd leave the "mediumly" in for comedic relief) or heavily planted? More input please. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder > > Kai wrote: > > > Changing the subject from what has dominated the list for the last couple of weeks... > > My 55g has turned to pea soup.  Again.  Ugh. > > It was very green last Thanksgiving.  Then I had a Christmas Miracle and it cleared up all by itself.  Now it's very green again. > > I can only assume that it's the angle of the sun.  And now we have highly reflective snow on the ground so despite our usually gray and dreary days, it's too much UV bouncing around. > > The tank already has automotive window tinting on both of the short ends and a stick-on backing.  What's next?  Shortening the time that the lights are on?  Down to what?  (They're on a timer.) > > Oh, my poor fishies... living in a swamp. > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47020	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

My tanks are in a room with lots of windows as well. Only one tank gets direct sunlight on only one end. The interesting thing is that end is not the greenest it is the opposite end which gets reflected sunlight. Also my tanks always have more algae in the winter. I have a passive solar house with heat-gaining tile/concrete floors and a stone chimney/wall opposite the windows. In the summer the roof overhang is designed to block the sun only a sliver enters the room. This is because the angle of the sun is higher in the summer. But in the winter the angle of the sun is lower and comes all the way into the room and hits the entire floor and opposite wall. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 12:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's Not Easy Being Green The tank faces a windowless west wall. The southern side is a full room away from the living room window (translucent white lace drapes) and the northern side is only about 6 feet from the dining room slider (no covering at all.) Both north and south ends of the tank have window tinting. No direct sunlight, indirect only. There are no live plants in that tank because the tinfoils think they're a salad bar. Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and pH is always very close to neutral. We have well water so there's no chlorination or fluoridation. There hasn't been any change in their feeding or eating habits. I added a 2nd HOB filter after the Thanksgiving bloom and have stuck to my twice a month vacuuming/PWC pattern. I'm 90% sure that the problem is too much reflected sunlight from the snow, which will probably be with us 'til April. I guess my question is if there's anything I can do other than wait out the bloom. I don't want to cover the tank or put up darkening drapes. In general, I don't think it's particularly bright in that area of the house. Neither of the rooms are bright enough to read in without turning on a good reading lamp. But apparently it's bright enough to cultivate algae. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Kai, What direction window exposure is the tank getting, and how many hours of direct sun (if any)? A southern exposure will of course give you the most outdoor light, whether diffused or direct. You may need to either install a solid background on the tank (and remove the auto window tinting), or install a shade or Venetian blinds on the window. With too much external natural lighting, cutting down on the artificial aquarium illumination may not be enough to control your algae, depending on the direction and the amount of this external light; the reflected light off of the snow only adds to this problem, as you've mentioned. > > Keep in mind too though that besides lighting, algae also needs nutrients to flourish. Perhaps you're overfeeding and/or you may not have enough live plants in the tank to outcompete the algae for food. Then too, you should check your tap water for nitrate. Also checking it for it's ammonia content as part of its chloramine addition would tell you if you're adding more nutrients (and how much) each time you make PWC's. By this, you can see that doing additional PWC's in attempts to remove this algae may not be the best route to go if it means you're just "feeding" the algae from your water supply. > Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47021	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

My house was designed similarly. The big eaves keep the summer sun out but allow light in during the winters. I'm sure if we put heat-retaining tiles down instead of carpeting and made changes to our drapery, it could be passive solar. But our winter weather is usually overcast and dreary -- and I can't say anything good about the insulating properties of the 30 year old picture window. We need to win Lotto to fix that. Despite the gray drearies outside, the snow really bounces UV around. I've adjusted the timer to cut the lights from 12 to 5 hours. 4 to 9 instead of 10 to 10. Hopefully, that will help. I don't think the green water is harmful to the fish, just ugly to us. Thanks to all for the kick in the pants I needed to adjust their lights. And while I was down there, I reorganized all the STUFF in the cabinet so it wouldn't avalanche out every time I opened the doors. ~Kai > Donna wrote: > > My tanks are in a room with lots of windows as well. Only one tank gets direct sunlight on only one end. The interesting thing is that end is not the greenest it is the opposite end which gets reflected sunlight. > > Also my tanks always have more algae in the winter. I have a passive solar house with heat-gaining tile/concrete floors and a stone chimney/wall opposite the windows. In the summer the roof overhang is designed to block the sun only a sliver enters the room. This is because the angle of the sun is higher in the summer. > > But in the winter the angle of the sun is lower and comes all the way into the room and hits the entire floor and opposite wall. > > > > _____ > > > > Kai wrote: > > The tank faces a windowless west wall. The southern side is a full room away from the living room window (translucent white lace drapes) and the northern side is only about 6 feet from the dining room slider (no covering at all.) Both north and south ends of the tank have window tinting. No direct sunlight, indirect only. > > There are no live plants in that tank because the tinfoils think they're a salad bar. Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and pH is always very close to neutral. We have well water so there's no chlorination or fluoridation. > > There hasn't been any change in their feeding or eating habits. I added a 2nd HOB filter after the Thanksgiving bloom and have stuck to my twice a month vacuuming/PWC pattern. > > I'm 90% sure that the problem is too much reflected sunlight from the snow, which will probably be with us 'til April. I guess my question is if there's anything I can do other than wait out the bloom. I don't want to cover the tank or put up darkening drapes. In general, I don't think it's particularly bright in that area of the house. Neither of the rooms are bright enough to read in without turning on a good reading lamp. But apparently it's bright enough to cultivate algae. > ~Kai > > > Ray wrote: > > > > Kai, What direction window exposure is the tank getting, and how many hours of direct sun (if any)? A southern exposure will of course give you > the most outdoor light, whether diffused or direct. You may need to either > install a solid background on the tank (and remove the auto window tinting), > or install a shade or Venetian blinds on the window. With too much external > natural lighting, cutting down on the artificial aquarium illumination may > not be enough to control your algae, depending on the direction and the > amount of this external light; the reflected light off of the snow only adds > to this problem, as you've mentioned. > > > > Keep in mind too though that besides lighting, algae also needs nutrients > to flourish. Perhaps you're overfeeding and/or you may not have enough live > plants in the tank to outcompete the algae for food. Then too, you should > check your tap water for nitrate. Also checking it for it's ammonia content > as part of its chloramine addition would tell you if you're adding more > nutrients (and how much) each time you make PWC's. By this, you can see that > doing additional PWC's in attempts to remove this algae may not be the best > route to go if it means you're just "feeding" the algae from your water > supply. > > Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47022	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

What is your nitrate and phosphate? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's Not Easy Being Green My house was designed similarly. The big eaves keep the summer sun out but allow light in during the winters. I'm sure if we put heat-retaining tiles down instead of carpeting and made changes to our drapery, it could be passive solar. But our winter weather is usually overcast and dreary -- and I can't say anything good about the insulating properties of the 30 year old picture window. We need to win Lotto to fix that. Despite the gray drearies outside, the snow really bounces UV around. I've adjusted the timer to cut the lights from 12 to 5 hours. 4 to 9 instead of 10 to 10. Hopefully, that will help. I don't think the green water is harmful to the fish, just ugly to us. Thanks to all for the kick in the pants I needed to adjust their lights. And while I was down there, I reorganized all the STUFF in the cabinet so it wouldn't avalanche out every time I opened the doors. ~Kai > Donna wrote: > > My tanks are in a room with lots of windows as well. Only one tank gets direct sunlight on only one end. The interesting thing is that end is not the greenest it is the opposite end which gets reflected sunlight. > > Also my tanks always have more algae in the winter. I have a passive solar house with heat-gaining tile/concrete floors and a stone chimney/wall opposite the windows. In the summer the roof overhang is designed to block the sun only a sliver enters the room. This is because the angle of the sun is higher in the summer. > > But in the winter the angle of the sun is lower and comes all the way into the room and hits the entire floor and opposite wall. > > > > _____ > > > > Kai wrote: > > The tank faces a windowless west wall. The southern side is a full room away from the living room window (translucent white lace drapes) and the northern side is only about 6 feet from the dining room slider (no covering at all.) Both north and south ends of the tank have window tinting. No direct sunlight, indirect only. > > There are no live plants in that tank because the tinfoils think they're a salad bar. Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and pH is always very close to neutral. We have well water so there's no chlorination or fluoridation. > > There hasn't been any change in their feeding or eating habits. I added a 2nd HOB filter after the Thanksgiving bloom and have stuck to my twice a month vacuuming/PWC pattern. > > I'm 90% sure that the problem is too much reflected sunlight from the snow, which will probably be with us 'til April. I guess my question is if there's anything I can do other than wait out the bloom. I don't want to cover the tank or put up darkening drapes. In general, I don't think it's particularly bright in that area of the house. Neither of the rooms are bright enough to read in without turning on a good reading lamp. But apparently it's bright enough to cultivate algae. > ~Kai > > > Ray wrote: > > > > Kai, What direction window exposure is the tank getting, and how many hours of direct sun (if any)? A southern exposure will of course give you > the most outdoor light, whether diffused or direct. You may need to either > install a solid background on the tank (and remove the auto window tinting), > or install a shade or Venetian blinds on the window. With too much external > natural lighting, cutting down on the artificial aquarium illumination may > not be enough to control your algae, depending on the direction and the > amount of this external light; the reflected light off of the snow only adds > to this problem, as you've mentioned. > > > > Keep in mind too though that besides lighting, algae also needs nutrients > to flourish. Perhaps you're overfeeding and/or you may not have enough live > plants in the tank to outcompete the algae for food. Then too, you should > check your tap water for nitrate. Also checking it for it's ammonia content > as part of its chloramine addition would tell you if you're adding more > nutrients (and how much) each time you make PWC's. By this, you can see that > doing additional PWC's in attempts to remove this algae may not be the best > route to go if it means you're just "feeding" the algae from your water > supply. > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47023	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

Kai, Your 12 hours of aquarium lighting are too much even if you had less indirect lighting coming in from the outside. While you may have gotten away with having your tank lights on from 10 AM to 10 PM previously, this much duration is to invite algae especially since you have no plants to use up the nutrients -- and you've GOT to have moderately high nitRATE, even though you only gave us your ammonia and nitRITE readings when I questioned your nitRATE. As you mentioned that your tank is overstocked, I'm sure your nitRATE has been building up as a result of their waste and its conversion by your both filters' nitrifying bacteria -- ESPECIALLY since you're not doing adequate PWC's. Two 5 gallon buckets (10 gallons) or even three (15 gallons) -- BTW, which is it? -- even two weeks arenot nearly enough, to be able to remove all your nitRATE that can be built up from an overstocked tank without plants to use up these nutrients. Please give us the results of your nitRATE test. If you don't have that kit, I'd advise your getting one. A 10 gallon water change is equal to an 18% partial water change; a 15 gallon water change is equal to a 27% PWC. This is NOT ENOUGH to properly maintain an normally stocked tank, let alone an overstocked tank. A 27% PWC (or more, for an overstocked tank) should be done EACH week. I'm glad to see you cut back on the lighting duration. By temporarily replacing the auto window tinting on the north end of the tank, it may help a bit, but I'd guess there's still a good amount of snow-reflected light entering the front of the tank from that north window, added to the diffused light from the sky as the sunlight bounces off the atmosphere. You're right, in that this suspended algae in itself (as a living organism) is not harmful to the fish. The danger comes if this much algae (described as "pea soup") suddenly crashes -- all at once (and it can) -- and the bacteria bloom as a result of it depletes the oxygen. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

You mentioned your nitrites, do you test your nitrAtes regularly? They might be higher than the algae is growing to help eat up the nitrates since you have no live plants in the tank. I would recommend increasing your PWC's to at least 1 time a week and clean each filter once a week as well, since you have an overstocked tank you should have fairly high nitrates, the algae bloom is actually a very good thing since the nitrates could harm your fish if they get too high and the algae is helping to get rid of the excess as best as it can. WC's will help lower your nitrates and should help slowly get rid of the algae bloom in your water column. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > The lights are usually on from 10am to 10pm. I'll cut that back even > though it cuts into our "viewing time." They are two plain ol' 15w 18" > fluorescents -- most likely the ones marked "aquarium" from Walmart. > > I vacuum* the tank twice a month on the 1st and 15th and take out a > total of two or three 5-ish gallon bucketfuls of water. I'm still > figuring out a good filter maintenance pattern since I added the 2nd > HOB a few months ago. I cleaned them both last time and worried that I > might have upset the water chemistry so this time, I just did one and > I'll do the other on the 15th. They each have two "blue" cartridge > filters and two mesh bio filters. > > *Available in 3 sizes, I cannot praise these vacuums highly enough: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 > <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247> > > As I said, there are no live plants in that tank. There are two 4" > disk bubblers that are quite aggressive. And (no scolding, Lenny) the > tank is admittedly overstocked. But everyone seems to be healthy and > happy despite the crowding and recent swamp-like conditions. > > I'm sure that the algae will be temporary. It just looks so ugly... > ~Kai > > > Bill wrote: > > > > You didn't say, but if the fish are OK and eating just increase your > WC's a bit and don't panic. Your right about the sunlight plus your > tank lights, cut to 8 hours, if you haven't already. Try blocking some > of those natural UV's. > > > > Bill > > > Lenny wrote: > > > How long are the lights on for? How much lighting, lumens, watts, > kind? Water parameters? Stocking levels? Tank maintenance and filter > maintenance schedule? Lightly, mediumly (is that a word..lol.. I guess > it would be moderately now that I think about it but thought I'd leave > the "mediumly" in for comedic relief) or heavily planted? More input > please. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Changing the subject from what has dominated the list for the last > couple of weeks... > > > > My 55g has turned to pea soup. Again. Ugh. > > > > It was very green last Thanksgiving. Then I had a Christmas Miracle > and it cleared up all by itself. Now it's very green again. > > > > I can only assume that it's the angle of the sun. And now we have > highly reflective snow on the ground so despite our usually gray and > dreary days, it's too much UV bouncing around. > > > > The tank already has automotive window tinting on both of the short > ends and a stick-on backing. What's next? Shortening the time that the > lights are on? Down to what? (They're on a timer.) > > > > Oh, my poor fishies... living in a swamp. > > ~Kai > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47025	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

No clue. PH = always close to neutral, ammonia = always 0 despite the overcrowding, nitrites = always 0 too. Those are the only tests I have. This particular tank has been up and running for 3 (or is it 4?) years already. I had algae problems with my old 20g but that was closer to the window and probably got hit by direct sunlight. This is the first winter that the 55g has gone green. We didn't have snow yet for Thanksgiving's bloom but it's very reflective outside now. ~Kai > Donna wrote: > > What is your nitrate and phosphate? > > > > _____ > > Kai wrote: > > My house was designed similarly. The big eaves keep the summer sun out but > allow light in during the winters. I'm sure if we put heat-retaining tiles > down instead of carpeting and made changes to our drapery, it could be > passive solar. But our winter weather is usually overcast and dreary -- and > I can't say anything good about the insulating properties of the 30 year old > picture window. We need to win Lotto to fix that. > > Despite the gray drearies outside, the snow really bounces UV around. I've > adjusted the timer to cut the lights from 12 to 5 hours. 4 to 9 instead of > 10 to 10. Hopefully, that will help. > > I don't think the green water is harmful to the fish, just ugly to us. > Thanks to all for the kick in the pants I needed to adjust their lights. And > while I was down there, I reorganized all the STUFF in the cabinet so it > wouldn't avalanche out every time I opened the doors. > ~Kai > > > Donna wrote: > > > > My tanks are in a room with lots of windows as well. Only one tank gets > direct sunlight on only one end. The interesting thing is that end is not > the greenest it is the opposite end which gets reflected sunlight. > > > > Also my tanks always have more algae in the winter. I have a passive solar > house with heat-gaining tile/concrete floors and a stone chimney/wall > opposite the windows. In the summer the roof overhang is designed to block > the sun only a sliver enters the room. This is because the angle of the sun > is higher in the summer. > > > > But in the winter the angle of the sun is lower and comes all the way into > the room and hits the entire floor and opposite wall. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > The tank faces a windowless west wall. The southern side is a full room > away from the living room window (translucent white lace drapes) and the > northern side is only about 6 feet from the dining room slider (no covering > at all.) Both north and south ends of the tank have window tinting. No > direct sunlight, indirect only. > > > > There are no live plants in that tank because the tinfoils think they're a > salad bar. Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and pH is always very close to > neutral. We have well water so there's no chlorination or fluoridation. > > > > There hasn't been any change in their feeding or eating habits. I added a > 2nd HOB filter after the Thanksgiving bloom and have stuck to my twice a > month vacuuming/PWC pattern. > > > > I'm 90% sure that the problem is too much reflected sunlight from the > snow, which will probably be with us 'til April. I guess my question is if > there's anything I can do other than wait out the bloom. I don't want to > cover the tank or put up darkening drapes. In general, I don't think it's > particularly bright in that area of the house. Neither of the rooms are > bright enough to read in without turning on a good reading lamp. But > apparently it's bright enough to cultivate algae. > > ~Kai > > > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > > > Kai, What direction window exposure is the tank getting, and how many > hours of direct sun (if any)? A southern exposure will of course give you > > the most outdoor light, whether diffused or direct. You may need to either > > install a solid background on the tank (and remove the auto window > tinting), > > or install a shade or Venetian blinds on the window. With too much > external > > natural lighting, cutting down on the artificial aquarium illumination may > > not be enough to control your algae, depending on the direction and the > > amount of this external light; the reflected light off of the snow only > adds > > to this problem, as you've mentioned. > > > > > > Keep in mind too though that besides lighting, algae also needs > nutrients > > to flourish. Perhaps you're overfeeding and/or you may not have enough > live > > plants in the tank to outcompete the algae for food. Then too, you should > > check your tap water for nitrate. Also checking it for it's ammonia > content > > as part of its chloramine addition would tell you if you're adding more > > nutrients (and how much) each time you make PWC's. By this, you can see > that > > doing additional PWC's in attempts to remove this algae may not be the > best > > route to go if it means you're just "feeding" the algae from your water > > supply. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

Do you have a test for Nitrate? That is the end compound of the nitrogen cycle so, while it's good and expected that the Ammonia and Nitrite are both 0.0ppm, it's the Nitrate level that will continue to climb and is controlled by doing PWC's and by live plants. If you haven't been testing your Nitrates or do not have that test, that very well could be the problem. Knowing your tap water baseline parameters and tank parameters for all of the common tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH and KH) will also help to isolate the problem. Have the fish grown much or have you added any more fish since November? This is a common event where folks have a maintenance schedule that is working but they do no compensate for things as the fish grow or if fish are added. As soon as the bioload gets larger, the previous maintenance schedule will probably no longer work and will have to be accelerated to equal the increased size of the bioload. If all of the above are fine and it is the ambient external lighting, then you either need to reduce your tank lighting dramatically or block out more of the ambient external lighting... with the latter being favored since we know that sunlight is a MAJOR problem with algae blooms in most tanks that have exposure to sunlight. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's Not Easy Being Green The tank faces a windowless west wall. The southern side is a full room away from the living room window (translucent white lace drapes) and the northern side is only about 6 feet from the dining room slider (no covering at all.) Both north and south ends of the tank have window tinting. No direct sunlight, indirect only. There are no live plants in that tank because the tinfoils think they're a salad bar. Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and pH is always very close to neutral. We have well water so there's no chlorination or fluoridation. There hasn't been any change in their feeding or eating habits. I added a 2nd HOB filter after the Thanksgiving bloom and have stuck to my twice a month vacuuming/PWC pattern. I'm 90% sure that the problem is too much reflected sunlight from the snow, which will probably be with us 'til April. I guess my question is if there's anything I can do other than wait out the bloom. I don't want to cover the tank or put up darkening drapes. In general, I don't think it's particularly bright in that area of the house. Neither of the rooms are bright enough to read in without turning on a good reading lamp. But apparently it's bright enough to cultivate algae. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Kai, What direction window exposure is the tank getting, and how many hours of direct sun (if any)? A southern exposure will of course give you the most outdoor light, whether diffused or direct. You may need to either install a solid background on the tank (and remove the auto window tinting), or install a shade or Venetian blinds on the window. With too much external natural lighting, cutting down on the artificial aquarium illumination may not be enough to control your algae, depending on the direction and the amount of this external light; the reflected light off of the snow only adds to this problem, as you've mentioned. > > Keep in mind too though that besides lighting, algae also needs > nutrients to flourish. Perhaps you're overfeeding and/or you may not > have enough live plants in the tank to outcompete the algae for food. > Then too, you should check your tap water for nitrate. Also checking > it for it's ammonia content as part of its chloramine addition would > tell you if you're adding more nutrients (and how much) each time you > make PWC's. By this, you can see that doing additional PWC's in > attempts to remove this algae may not be the best route to go if it means you're just "feeding" the algae from your water supply. > Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47027	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

Well, your lighting and bioload are likely to be a big part of your problem with 12 hours of sustained lighting on an overstocked tank. Even on a heavily planted tank, that would be a LOT of lighting in many cases. But the algae would still need a food source so it's either the nitrates or phosphates that are likely feeding the algae. While most aquarists should have a nitrate test kit, I don't recommend getting a phosphate test kit unless there are algae issues and nitrogenous compounds aren't the cause. Nitrates are the end product of the nitrogen cycle but can also come from tap water or well water. Phosphates can also come from the source water but also are in most fish foods so they end up in the fish waste also. As far as your filter maintenance, it should be *properly* done on at least a weekly to bi-weekly basis, depending on the bioload of the tank. Full bioload should be at least weekly. Light bioload can be pushed to every two weeks. It might have to be done more frequently than weekly if an overstocked tank... since you brought that up. ;-) Remember that the filter is there to suck up fish poo and other detritus and catch it in the filter media BUT if you leave that detritus in the filter media, it starts to break down and dissolves back into the water defeating the whole purpose of filtration. One of my online fish friends compares it to flushing your toilet at home... how long do you leave the waste in the toilet before flushing it? Why should the fish have to swim around in their own waste for such long periods of time before removing it from their tank and flushing it down the drain when you clean the filter media. Technically, in a non-planted tank, you almost CAN'T properly clean your filter media too often as long as you take precautions to not completely kill the nitrifying bacteria. For the best water quality, removing the fish waste daily or even as it's done would be the best thing but most aquarists do not have the time to do that kind of schedule. You can find more information about proper filter cleaning on my blog page about "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning Recommendations", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/notice-this-article-is-very-important. html OR http://tinyurl.com/Filter-Maintenance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 1:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's Not Easy Being Green The lights are usually on from 10am to 10pm. I'll cut that back even though it cuts into our "viewing time." They are two plain ol' 15w 18" fluorescents -- most likely the ones marked "aquarium" from Walmart. I vacuum* the tank twice a month on the 1st and 15th and take out a total of two or three 5-ish gallon bucketfuls of water. I'm still figuring out a good filter maintenance pattern since I added the 2nd HOB a few months ago. I cleaned them both last time and worried that I might have upset the water chemistry so this time, I just did one and I'll do the other on the 15th. They each have two "blue" cartridge filters and two mesh bio filters. *Available in 3 sizes, I cannot praise these vacuums highly enough: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 As I said, there are no live plants in that tank. There are two 4" disk bubblers that are quite aggressive. And (no scolding, Lenny) the tank is admittedly overstocked. But everyone seems to be healthy and happy despite the crowding and recent swamp-like conditions. I'm sure that the algae will be temporary. It just looks so ugly... ~Kai > Bill wrote: > > You didn't say, but if the fish are OK and eating just increase your WC's a bit and don't panic.  Your right about the sunlight plus your tank lights, cut to 8 hours, if you haven't already.  Try blocking some of those natural UV's. >   > Bill > Lenny wrote: > How long are the lights on for? How much lighting, lumens, watts, > kind? Water parameters? Stocking levels? Tank maintenance and filter > maintenance schedule? Lightly, mediumly (is that a word..lol.. I guess > it would be moderately now that I think about it but thought I'd leave > the "mediumly" in for comedic relief) or heavily planted? More input > please. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder > > Kai wrote: > > > Changing the subject from what has dominated the list for the last couple of weeks... > > My 55g has turned to pea soup.  Again.  Ugh. > > It was very green last Thanksgiving.  Then I had a Christmas Miracle and it cleared up all by itself.  Now it's very green again. > > I can only assume that it's the angle of the sun.  And now we have highly reflective snow on the ground so despite our usually gray and dreary days, it's too much UV bouncing around. > > The tank already has automotive window tinting on both of the short > ends and a stick-on backing.  What's next?  Shortening the time that > the lights are on?  Down to what?  (They're on a timer.) > > Oh, my poor fishies... living in a swamp. > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47028	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

Normally, it's best to slowly change things so you could have dropped the lighting to 10 hours for a week, then 8 hours, then 6 hours, etc... but since you do not have live plants, it shouldn't affect things as much although the fish might wonder what the hell happened to the Sun? Or they might think Amber fish-napped their tank and brought them up to Alaska where we know there is no sunlight at all during the winter months.... right \\Steve//? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's Not Easy Being Green My house was designed similarly. The big eaves keep the summer sun out but allow light in during the winters. I'm sure if we put heat-retaining tiles down instead of carpeting and made changes to our drapery, it could be passive solar. But our winter weather is usually overcast and dreary -- and I can't say anything good about the insulating properties of the 30 year old picture window. We need to win Lotto to fix that. Despite the gray drearies outside, the snow really bounces UV around. I've adjusted the timer to cut the lights from 12 to 5 hours. 4 to 9 instead of 10 to 10. Hopefully, that will help. I don't think the green water is harmful to the fish, just ugly to us. Thanks to all for the kick in the pants I needed to adjust their lights. And while I was down there, I reorganized all the STUFF in the cabinet so it wouldn't avalanche out every time I opened the doors. ~Kai > Donna wrote: > > My tanks are in a room with lots of windows as well. Only one tank gets direct sunlight on only one end. The interesting thing is that end is not the greenest it is the opposite end which gets reflected sunlight. > > Also my tanks always have more algae in the winter. I have a passive solar house with heat-gaining tile/concrete floors and a stone chimney/wall opposite the windows. In the summer the roof overhang is designed to block the sun only a sliver enters the room. This is because the angle of the sun is higher in the summer. > > But in the winter the angle of the sun is lower and comes all the way into the room and hits the entire floor and opposite wall. > > > > _____ > > > > Kai wrote: > > The tank faces a windowless west wall. The southern side is a full room away from the living room window (translucent white lace drapes) and the northern side is only about 6 feet from the dining room slider (no covering at all.) Both north and south ends of the tank have window tinting. No direct sunlight, indirect only. > > There are no live plants in that tank because the tinfoils think they're a salad bar. Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and pH is always very close to neutral. We have well water so there's no chlorination or fluoridation. > > There hasn't been any change in their feeding or eating habits. I added a 2nd HOB filter after the Thanksgiving bloom and have stuck to my twice a month vacuuming/PWC pattern. > > I'm 90% sure that the problem is too much reflected sunlight from the snow, which will probably be with us 'til April. I guess my question is if there's anything I can do other than wait out the bloom. I don't want to cover the tank or put up darkening drapes. In general, I don't think it's particularly bright in that area of the house. Neither of the rooms are bright enough to read in without turning on a good reading lamp. But apparently it's bright enough to cultivate algae. > ~Kai > > > Ray wrote: > > > > Kai, What direction window exposure is the tank getting, and how > > many hours of direct sun (if any)? A southern exposure will of > > course give you > the most outdoor light, whether diffused or direct. You may need to > either install a solid background on the tank (and remove the auto > window tinting), or install a shade or Venetian blinds on the window. > With too much external natural lighting, cutting down on the > artificial aquarium illumination may not be enough to control your > algae, depending on the direction and the amount of this external > light; the reflected light off of the snow only adds to this problem, as you've mentioned. > > > > Keep in mind too though that besides lighting, algae also needs > > nutrients > to flourish. Perhaps you're overfeeding and/or you may not have enough > live plants in the tank to outcompete the algae for food. Then too, > you should check your tap water for nitrate. Also checking it for it's > ammonia content as part of its chloramine addition would tell you if > you're adding more nutrients (and how much) each time you make PWC's. > By this, you can see that doing additional PWC's in attempts to remove > this algae may not be the best route to go if it means you're just > "feeding" the algae from your water supply. > > Ray > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47029	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

Thanks for bringing that point up Amber. I failed to mention it in earlier replies. Yes, algae is God's way of trying to save the fish from pollution levels. Algae is also a bellwether or reminder that we may not be maintaining our tanks properly and/or that things have gotten out of balance. Since the conditions that created the algae came on slowly, you need to slowly change things back to normal as part of your algae abatement. This is why algaecides are NOT good since they would kill off all the algae at once without finding the cause and fixing the cause first. It would also add another chemical to the tank which is not needed. Ray brought up the fact that algae also adds to the bioload and dying/dead algae is even worse and can cause other problems so don't do anything too dramatic without thinking things through first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: It's Not Easy Being Green You mentioned your nitrites, do you test your nitrAtes regularly? They might be higher than the algae is growing to help eat up the nitrates since you have no live plants in the tank. I would recommend increasing your PWC's to at least 1 time a week and clean each filter once a week as well, since you have an overstocked tank you should have fairly high nitrates, the algae bloom is actually a very good thing since the nitrates could harm your fish if they get too high and the algae is helping to get rid of the excess as best as it can. WC's will help lower your nitrates and should help slowly get rid of the algae bloom in your water column. Amber kuradi8 wrote: > > The lights are usually on from 10am to 10pm. I'll cut that back even > though it cuts into our "viewing time." They are two plain ol' 15w 18" > fluorescents -- most likely the ones marked "aquarium" from Walmart. > > I vacuum* the tank twice a month on the 1st and 15th and take out a > total of two or three 5-ish gallon bucketfuls of water. I'm still > figuring out a good filter maintenance pattern since I added the 2nd > HOB a few months ago. I cleaned them both last time and worried that I > might have upset the water chemistry so this time, I just did one and > I'll do the other on the 15th. They each have two "blue" cartridge > filters and two mesh bio filters. > > *Available in 3 sizes, I cannot praise these vacuums highly enough: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 > <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247> > > As I said, there are no live plants in that tank. There are two 4" > disk bubblers that are quite aggressive. And (no scolding, Lenny) the > tank is admittedly overstocked. But everyone seems to be healthy and > happy despite the crowding and recent swamp-like conditions. > > I'm sure that the algae will be temporary. It just looks so ugly... > ~Kai > > > Bill wrote: > > > > You didn't say, but if the fish are OK and eating just increase your > WC's a bit and don't panic. Your right about the sunlight plus your > tank lights, cut to 8 hours, if you haven't already. Try blocking some > of those natural UV's. > > > > Bill > > > Lenny wrote: > > > How long are the lights on for? How much lighting, lumens, watts, > kind? Water parameters? Stocking levels? Tank maintenance and filter > maintenance schedule? Lightly, mediumly (is that a word..lol.. I guess > it would be moderately now that I think about it but thought I'd leave > the "mediumly" in for comedic relief) or heavily planted? More input > please. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Changing the subject from what has dominated the list for the last > couple of weeks... > > > > My 55g has turned to pea soup. Again. Ugh. > > > > It was very green last Thanksgiving. Then I had a Christmas Miracle > and it cleared up all by itself. Now it's very green again. > > > > I can only assume that it's the angle of the sun. And now we have > highly reflective snow on the ground so despite our usually gray and > dreary days, it's too much UV bouncing around. > > > > The tank already has automotive window tinting on both of the short > ends and a stick-on backing. What's next? Shortening the time that the > lights are on? Down to what? (They're on a timer.) > > > > Oh, my poor fishies... living in a swamp. > > ~Kai > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47030	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

Yep, Amber does not need to worry about sun I the winter, just the vampires coming around for a winter vacation where they can party "day" and night, without having to worry about finding their way back to the coffin before the sun rises. You know, I was thinking of her the other day while flipping through a recent Drs. Foster & Smith catalog. I'll save those musings, however, for another thread. But, back to Kai's problem. It seems to me that it may be a nitrate issue as others have been saying. A water change twice a month simply cannot handle the amount of nitrate and other waste build-up, especially in a tank that is admittedly over stocked. A weekly water change of at least 25% should be done. Filter maintenance should be done when necessary, when the flow from the filter starts to decrease. Getting them on an every other cycle would, indeed, be helpful in maintaining colonies of useful bacteria housed within the filters. Without any plants, lighting should be for viewing pleasure, since the ambient light should be enough for the fish. If you are not around during the daylight hours, the lights should be left off. You can set a time to turn the lights on at, or just before, dusk, so they are certain to be lit when you return to the old homestead after a hard day doing whatever you do during the day. A basic water test kit should be assembled to include tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and temperature. As you go further with the hobby, there are other test kits you may wish to add to your collection, like those for hardness (GH & KH), which can correlate to pH, phosphates, if you seem to have water that is high in phosphates, oxygen, etc. Other than the hardness kits, others are generally superfluous, and used for curiosity only. Having a baseline run on your tap water is extremely useful, and this should be tested at different times of the year, especially if you are on a municipal system, as water sources can change. If you are using well water, the baseline may change somewhat over the course of the year, but the changes will be much more subtle. The baseline should have a series of three tests done. First test is done immediately, second test is done 24 hours later, and the third, after 48 hours. (The times are approximations--if it happens to be an hour less or 3 hours more, it does not make that much difference, but try to be fairly close in your timing.) When the tank is first started, measure at least daily. Once the cycle has been established, you can gradually back off on the testing to once a week, and then monthly, though always be ready to test should something appear to be wrong with your tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 6:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: It's Not Easy Being Green Normally, it's best to slowly change things so you could have dropped the lighting to 10 hours for a week, then 8 hours, then 6 hours, etc... but since you do not have live plants, it shouldn't affect things as much although the fish might wonder what the hell happened to the Sun? Or they might think Amber fish-napped their tank and brought them up to Alaska where we know there is no sunlight at all during the winter months.... right \\Steve//? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: It's Not Easy Being Green My house was designed similarly. The big eaves keep the summer sun out but allow light in during the winters. I'm sure if we put heat-retaining tiles down instead of carpeting and made changes to our drapery, it could be passive solar. But our winter weather is usually overcast and dreary -- and I can't say anything good about the insulating properties of the 30 year old picture window. We need to win Lotto to fix that. Despite the gray drearies outside, the snow really bounces UV around. I've adjusted the timer to cut the lights from 12 to 5 hours. 4 to 9 instead of 10 to 10. Hopefully, that will help. I don't think the green water is harmful to the fish, just ugly to us. Thanks to all for the kick in the pants I needed to adjust their lights. And while I was down there, I reorganized all the STUFF in the cabinet so it wouldn't avalanche out every time I opened the doors. ~Kai > Donna wrote: > > My tanks are in a room with lots of windows as well. Only one tank gets direct sunlight on only one end. The interesting thing is that end is not the greenest.it is the opposite end which gets reflected sunlight. > > Also my tanks always have more algae in the winter. I have a passive solar house with heat-gaining tile/concrete floors and a stone chimney/wall opposite the windows. In the summer the roof overhang is designed to block the sun.only a sliver enters the room. This is because the angle of the sun is higher in the summer. > > But in the winter the angle of the sun is lower and comes all the way into the room and hits the entire floor and opposite wall. > > > > _____ > > > > Kai wrote: > > The tank faces a windowless west wall. The southern side is a full room away from the living room window (translucent white lace drapes) and the northern side is only about 6 feet from the dining room slider (no covering at all.) Both north and south ends of the tank have window tinting. No direct sunlight, indirect only. > > There are no live plants in that tank because the tinfoils think they're a salad bar. Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and pH is always very close to neutral. We have well water so there's no chlorination or fluoridation. > > There hasn't been any change in their feeding or eating habits. I added a 2nd HOB filter after the Thanksgiving bloom and have stuck to my twice a month vacuuming/PWC pattern. > > I'm 90% sure that the problem is too much reflected sunlight from the snow, which will probably be with us 'til April. I guess my question is if there's anything I can do other than wait out the bloom. I don't want to cover the tank or put up darkening drapes. In general, I don't think it's particularly bright in that area of the house. Neither of the rooms are bright enough to read in without turning on a good reading lamp. But apparently it's bright enough to cultivate algae. > ~Kai > > > Ray wrote: > > > > Kai, What direction window exposure is the tank getting, and how > > many hours of direct sun (if any)? A southern exposure will of > > course give you > the most outdoor light, whether diffused or direct. You may need to > either install a solid background on the tank (and remove the auto > window tinting), or install a shade or Venetian blinds on the window. > With too much external natural lighting, cutting down on the > artificial aquarium illumination may not be enough to control your > algae, depending on the direction and the amount of this external > light; the reflected light off of the snow only adds to this problem, as you've mentioned. > > > > Keep in mind too though that besides lighting, algae also needs > > nutrients > to flourish. Perhaps you're overfeeding and/or you may not have enough > live plants in the tank to outcompete the algae for food. Then too, > you should check your tap water for nitrate. Also checking it for it's > ammonia content as part of its chloramine addition would tell you if > you're adding more nutrients (and how much) each time you make PWC's. > By this, you can see that doing additional PWC's in attempts to remove > this algae may not be the best route to go if it means you're just > "feeding" the algae from your water supply. > > Ray > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47031	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: It's Not Easy Being Green

I read up on nitrates and phosphates and basically, if I have an algae bloom, that's telling me I'm having nitrate and phosphate issues. I don't need a test kit to tell me they're out of whack cos that's what the algae is telling me. [wink] The sites told me to feed the fish less and clean the tank more. OK. I'll up it to once a week and follow Lenny's guidelines for filter maintenance. As for light, that tank has had 12 hours of light a day since it was new 4 years ago (I had a 20g for nearly 20 years before) and the UV light will be reduced when the snow goes away. I think the "snow light" far outweighs the artificial light so what I do with the timer really won't matter too much but I suppose every little bit helps. Then I'll bring them back to normal. In increments sounds like a good plan. Looks like I just need a little patience and some more diligence. Thanks, everyone for your help! ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Thanks for bringing that point up Amber. I failed to mention it in earlier > replies. Yes, algae is God's way of trying to save the fish from pollution > levels. Algae is also a bellwether or reminder that we may not be > maintaining our tanks properly and/or that things have gotten out of > balance. Since the conditions that created the algae came on slowly, you > need to slowly change things back to normal as part of your algae abatement. > This is why algaecides are NOT good since they would kill off all the algae > at once without finding the cause and fixing the cause first. It would also > add another chemical to the tank which is not needed. > > Ray brought up the fact that algae also adds to the bioload and dying/dead > algae is even worse and can cause other problems so don't do anything too > dramatic without thinking things through first. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 3:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: It's Not Easy Being Green > > You mentioned your nitrites, do you test your nitrAtes regularly? They might > be higher than the algae is growing to help eat up the nitrates since you > have no live plants in the tank. > I would recommend increasing your PWC's to at least 1 time a week and clean > each filter once a week as well, since you have an overstocked tank you > should have fairly high nitrates, the algae bloom is actually a very good > thing since the nitrates could harm your fish if they get too high and the > algae is helping to get rid of the excess as best as it can. WC's will help > lower your nitrates and should help slowly get rid of the algae bloom in > your water column. > > Amber > > kuradi8 wrote: > > > > The lights are usually on from 10am to 10pm. I'll cut that back even > > though it cuts into our "viewing time." They are two plain ol' 15w 18" > > fluorescents -- most likely the ones marked "aquarium" from Walmart. > > > > I vacuum* the tank twice a month on the 1st and 15th and take out a > > total of two or three 5-ish gallon bucketfuls of water. I'm still > > figuring out a good filter maintenance pattern since I added the 2nd > > HOB a few months ago. I cleaned them both last time and worried that I > > might have upset the water chemistry so this time, I just did one and > > I'll do the other on the 15th. They each have two "blue" cartridge > > filters and two mesh bio filters. > > > > *Available in 3 sizes, I cannot praise these vacuums highly enough: > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247 > > <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220460202247> > > > > As I said, there are no live plants in that tank. There are two 4" > > disk bubblers that are quite aggressive. And (no scolding, Lenny) the > > tank is admittedly overstocked. But everyone seems to be healthy and > > happy despite the crowding and recent swamp-like conditions. > > > > I'm sure that the algae will be temporary. It just looks so ugly... > > ~Kai > > > > > Bill wrote: > > > > > > You didn't say, but if the fish are OK and eating just increase your > > WC's a bit and don't panic. Your right about the sunlight plus your > > tank lights, cut to 8 hours, if you haven't already. Try blocking some > > of those natural UV's. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > Lenny wrote: > > > > > How long are the lights on for? How much lighting, lumens, watts, > > kind? Water parameters? Stocking levels? Tank maintenance and filter > > maintenance schedule? Lightly, mediumly (is that a word..lol.. I guess > > it would be moderately now that I think about it but thought I'd leave > > the "mediumly" in for comedic relief) or heavily planted? More input > > please. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > Changing the subject from what has dominated the list for the last > > couple of weeks... > > > > > > My 55g has turned to pea soup. Again. Ugh. > > > > > > It was very green last Thanksgiving. Then I had a Christmas Miracle > > and it cleared up all by itself. Now it's very green again. > > > > > > I can only assume that it's the angle of the sun. And now we have > > highly reflective snow on the ground so despite our usually gray and > > dreary days, it's too much UV bouncing around. > > > > > > The tank already has automotive window tinting on both of the short > > ends and a stick-on backing. What's next? Shortening the time that the > > lights are on? Down to what? (They're on a timer.) > > > > > > Oh, my poor fishies... living in a swamp. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47032	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Re: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Ci

Lenny, Back on topic and back to the dogs. Have you heard about the DNA testing for dogs? It is trying to become a big time business in the dog field, to identify the breed, or combination of breeds, your dog is. Sounds pretty cool, no? Well, there is one little teensy, itty-bitty problem with the test. It does not work. Only a couple of breeds can be identified this way, and it is doubtful that it works 100% of the time. If, as you argue, the different breeds were separate species, or, at least, subspecies, then the evidence would be there in the DNA, with the differences between the breeds clearly, if not strikingly, apparent. The DNA evidence is simply not there to make this kind of breakdown. One point of interest, however, is that a few breeds can be identified with some sort of consistency. After having a few days to let this rattle around in my head (and some do think there is a lot of room in there to rattle things around) that there is another Canine species, or a related Canid involved in those lines, which may be why they stand out, to a certain extent, from other breeds. DNA testing is becoming less expensive to perform, as well as easier. When it reaches a certain price/ ease of use point, we will see a wide spread use of it in taxonomy. What kind of an effect this will have on our hobby would need to be seen as it happens. There may be some groups of fish that will have their classification changed radically while there will be others that remain virtually unchanged. Another point I'd like to touch upon is your insistence that inter-genus hybridization cannot occur. The same used to be said about inter-specific breeding, which has proven to be false. From that paper I sent along the info on, it is shown that inter-genus breeding does happen, albeit rarely, in the wild. Whether or not those that survived were sterile or not was not covered, but, the fact remains that some fry did hatch and survive to some point in their lifecycle. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 12:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid Edu-tainment at it's finest! ;-) (Edu-tainment sounded better than Enter-cation... lol) But.... you didn't answer the question. LOL And Darwin should be rolling over in his grave after leaving us such a mess with so much elementary education being taught based on his Theory Of Evolution (AND so many people believing it to be scientific fact instead of realizing it's simply a theory... even though "Theory" is in the title), which in his later days, Darwin admitted, after a lifetime of research, he had no proof of it actually being true. This is akin to teaching the Flat Earth Theory without firmly advising that IT'S NOT TRUE!!! ;-) At least Mendel's work was substantiated by real science and is not just a theory. So... did you submit me for a Nobel Prize yet? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Hybridization WAS: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: (Aquatic Life) Kenyi Cichlid In my ever so humble opinion, Lenny just single handedly caused Gregor Mendel and Charles Darwin to roll over in their graves :-) This is why I so love lurking this group.....there is always a chuckle posted by someone. Respectfully, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > True... but do you really think that both a St. Bernard and a Dachshund or a Bull Mastiff and a Shit-tzu are all man-made inbreeds from a gray wolf?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47033	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/3/2010
Subject: Chevy Fish Tank

http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2010/03/car-turned-into-fish-tank-aquarium. html http://tinyurl.com/ylq8fuo Car turned into fish tank. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: Chevy Fish Tank

There seems to be two different fish tank cars... one car is white with no decals and the other has decals or a mural. Further, the top few pics show what appear to be a couple of different tropical fish while the bottom pics show goldfish. Something's fishy in Siam! Well... maybe not. I did some homework and found this image of the "Chevy Fish Tank" with a different set of decals or mural on it. http://myfoodpress.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/chevyfishtank.jpg Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chevy Fish Tank http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2010/03/car-turned-into-fish-tank-aquarium. html http://tinyurl.com/ylq8fuo Car turned into fish tank. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47035	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: Chevy Fish Tank

Oh \\Steve//... more importantly than my last reply. You failed to mention that some folks might NOT want to check out other blog articles on that site (hint, hint... two links up from the "Car turned into a fish tank aquarium" link and the bottom link in the March Archives section. I was afraid to click on the link two links down from the "Car... Tank..." link). LOL Don't worry folks.. the worst... or would that be the best article on my fish blog would be my Fish Jokes page and some of the things said by kids. Oh yeah... where did I get them jokes from again? Hmmmmm... maybe \\Steve// remembers. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chevy Fish Tank http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2010/03/car-turned-into-fish-tank-aquarium. html http://tinyurl.com/ylq8fuo Car turned into fish tank. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47036	From: Mina	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: hello

hello thank you for letting me join. here is a little about me an my fish. my name is stefanie i live in northwest ohio. i have a ten gal tank with a placumus named plato 3 mystery snails named loki. ivory an blue, a red betta named mr fish. 2 small fan tail gold fish named stripe an spot. an a dragon fish named dragon. i havent had fish in about 10 years. my mom died after xmas 2008 an a a few months ago i ended up with her placacums that was 5 or 6 years old an i accedently killed him. an i couldnt take looking at an empty tank soi got some new fish. well its nice meeting you all stefanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47037	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: hello

Hi Stefanie and welcome to the group. Your 10G tank isn't big enough for all of the fish/critters that you have. You would be OK with the Betta and the three Mystery Snails but that would be about all you should be keeping in the 10G tank. The goldfish definitely need a MUCH larger tank and aren't really compatible with your other tropical fish since goldfish are cool water fish, not tropical fish. If they are fancy goldfish, you could get a 4' long 55G tank for them two. If they are common goldfish, then at least a 6' long 100G+ tank would be advised... or better yet, a pond. The Plecostomus, which is what I believe you mean, comes in many species/sizes and unfortunately some of the most commonly available species and often called "Common Plecos" grow WAY TOO BIG for your tank. There are 3+ species sold as common plecos and they all grow to over 18" long and need a BIG tank. There are smaller species of plecos like a Clown Pleco which only grows to around 3.5" to 5" that might do OK in a 10g but it is a wide bodied fish and would pretty much need all 10G so you couldn't have any other fish. Since you are back new into fish keeping, check out my blog article "A To Z Of Fish Keeping..." http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-training.h tml OR http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping and near the top of that page, you'll see two free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping since a LOT has changed in the past 10 years. We know so much more about the science of fish keeping that was not known even 10 years ago. Also, while at my blog, check out the 10 gallon stocking suggestions article, although based on your fish/critters that you already have, I kind of gave you what would be acceptable to keep but if you ever want to change things up, you'll see you have many, many options for long term success with a 10G tank. http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mina Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 2:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hello hello thank you for letting me join. here is a little about me an my fish. my name is stefanie i live in northwest ohio. i have a ten gal tank with a placumus named plato 3 mystery snails named loki. ivory an blue, a red betta named mr fish. 2 small fan tail gold fish named stripe an spot. an a dragon fish named dragon. i havent had fish in about 10 years. my mom died after xmas 2008 an a a few months ago i ended up with her placacums that was 5 or 6 years old an i accedently killed him. an i couldnt take looking at an empty tank soi got some new fish. well its nice meeting you all stefanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47038	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: hello

Hello Stefanie:    Welcome to the group.  There are a lot of great people here.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, the "Creature") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47039	From: Mark Hough	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: Chevy Fish Tank

Ron Jeremy is still around??? Speaking of his pic, is the subject above him a dude? On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:57 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > Oh \\Steve//... more importantly than my last reply. You failed to mention > that some folks might NOT want to check out other blog articles on that > site > (hint, hint... two links up from the "Car turned into a fish tank aquarium" > link and the bottom link in the March Archives section. I was afraid to > click on the link two links down from the "Car... Tank..." link). LOL > > Don't worry folks.. the worst... or would that be the best article on my > fish blog would be my Fish Jokes page and some of the things said by kids. > Oh yeah... where did I get them jokes from again? Hmmmmm... maybe \\Steve// > remembers. ;-) > > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Chevy Fish Tank > > > http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2010/03/car-turned-into-fish-tank-aquarium. > html > > http://tinyurl.com/ylq8fuo > > Car turned into fish tank. > > \\Steve// > > > -- http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47040	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/4/2010
Subject: Re: Chevy Fish Tank

Yes, Ron and several other adult industry stars were recently featured as spokespeople for PETA to spay and neuter your pets. "Too much sex can be a bad thing," or something like that. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark Hough <mhough6229@...> wrote: > > Ron Jeremy is still around??? Speaking of his pic, is the subject above him > a dude? > > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:57 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...>wrote: > > > > > > > Oh \\Steve//... more importantly than my last reply. You failed to mention > > that some folks might NOT want to check out other blog articles on that > > site > > (hint, hint... two links up from the "Car turned into a fish tank aquarium" > > link and the bottom link in the March Archives section. I was afraid to > > click on the link two links down from the "Car... Tank..." link). LOL > > > > Don't worry folks.. the worst... or would that be the best article on my > > fish blog would be my Fish Jokes page and some of the things said by kids. > > Oh yeah... where did I get them jokes from again? Hmmmmm... maybe \\Steve// > > remembers. ;-) > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Chevy Fish Tank > > > > > > http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2010/03/car-turned-into-fish-tank-aquarium. > > html > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ylq8fuo > > > > Car turned into fish tank. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 > > Mark Hough > > I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if > there really is a doG. > I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47041	From: Mina	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: hello

thank you for the welcome --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> wrote: > >      Hello Stefanie: >    Welcome to the group.  There are a lot of great people here. >    Have a Great Day!!! >    John (aka, the "Creature") > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47042	From: Mina	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: hello

thank you for the advice. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Hi Stefanie and welcome to the group. > > Your 10G tank isn't big enough for all of the fish/critters that you have. > You would be OK with the Betta and the three Mystery Snails but that would > be about all you should be keeping in the 10G tank. > > The goldfish definitely need a MUCH larger tank and aren't really compatible > with your other tropical fish since goldfish are cool water fish, not > tropical fish. If they are fancy goldfish, you could get a 4' long 55G tank > for them two. If they are common goldfish, then at least a 6' long 100G+ > tank would be advised... or better yet, a pond. > > The Plecostomus, which is what I believe you mean, comes in many > species/sizes and unfortunately some of the most commonly available species > and often called "Common Plecos" grow WAY TOO BIG for your tank. There are > 3+ species sold as common plecos and they all grow to over 18" long and need > a BIG tank. There are smaller species of plecos like a Clown Pleco which > only grows to around 3.5" to 5" that might do OK in a 10g but it is a wide > bodied fish and would pretty much need all 10G so you couldn't have any > other fish. > > Since you are back new into fish keeping, check out my blog article "A To Z > Of Fish Keeping..." > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-training.h > tml OR http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping and near the top of that > page, you'll see two free online tutorials that will walk you through all of > the basics of fish keeping since a LOT has changed in the past 10 years. We > know so much more about the science of fish keeping that was not known even > 10 years ago. > > Also, while at my blog, check out the 10 gallon stocking suggestions > article, although based on your fish/critters that you already have, I kind > of gave you what would be acceptable to keep but if you ever want to change > things up, you'll see you have many, many options for long term success with > a 10G tank. http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mina > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 2:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] hello > > hello thank you for letting me join. here is a little about me an my fish. > my name is stefanie i live in northwest ohio. i have a ten gal tank with a > placumus named plato 3 mystery snails named loki. ivory an blue, a red > betta named mr fish. 2 small fan tail gold fish named stripe an spot. an a > dragon fish named dragon. i havent had fish in about 10 years. my mom > died after xmas 2008 an a a few months ago i ended up with her placacums > that was 5 or 6 years old an i accedently killed him. an i couldnt take > looking at an empty tank soi got some new fish. > > well its nice meeting you all > > stefanie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47043	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Male Endler's pale

I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is there, but extremely faint. He acts normal, other than the coloring. Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot of this fish. Thanks for any insight - Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47044	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Compact fluorescent lighting question

For a fresh water planted tank, are Coralife 50/50 compact fluorescent bulbs a good choice? My LFS has them on clearance :) ~ Laurie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47045	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Compact fluorescent lighting question

The 50/50 bulbs are mostly designed for saltwater tanks, one of the bulbs is a white spectrum (usually 1000kelvin), and the 2nd bulb is actinic (blue lighting to simulate the lighting in the ocean). Those blue bulbs will usually cause you get a lot of algae growth, so it's not really a good lighting for a freshwater planted tank (or even just a freshwater tank). Amber Laurie Alaimo wrote: > > For a fresh water planted tank, are Coralife 50/50 compact fluorescent > bulbs a good choice? My LFS has them on clearance :) > > ~ Laurie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47046	From: Noura	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Clown Loach

My Clown Loach (1.5") has been laying on its side more than usual since three days (all the clown loaches that I had spent some times laying on their side or in upside-down funny positions without having any health problems), its breathing is rapid, and I saw some bloody red spot under the skin in the mouth and "chin" area, its anus is red too but I didn't examine the other two loaches to see if the red anus is normal or not. It's in a hospital tank now, waiting your suggestions. Thanks. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47047	From: Noura	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because there were some colorless females among the descendants. At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lainey Alexander To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is there, but extremely faint. He acts normal, other than the coloring. Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot of this fish. Thanks for any insight - Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47048	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Compact fluorescent lighting question

Yeah... http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3794 says: Full-spectrum lamps enhance color and clarity in freshwater, marine, and reef aquariums. Lamp phosphors are 50% 6000°K natural daylight and 50% Actinic 03 blue. (END SNIP) Since a single tube has both spectrums, you would have to running the Actinic lighting full time with your daylight lighting which would not be ideal, regardless to what the advertising says. If you had a light fixture that allowed for separate controls of bulbs and you had one bulb that was daylight and one bulb that was actinic, then you could leave the actinic off except for a few hours at night if you wanted to use it for moonlighting for viewing any nocturnal species but you wouldn't want to leave it on for long periods of time since they are mainly for saltwater tanks to enhance the fluorescent coloration of SW fish and corals. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Compact fluorescent lighting question The 50/50 bulbs are mostly designed for saltwater tanks, one of the bulbs is a white spectrum (usually 1000kelvin), and the 2nd bulb is actinic (blue lighting to simulate the lighting in the ocean). Those blue bulbs will usually cause you get a lot of algae growth, so it's not really a good lighting for a freshwater planted tank (or even just a freshwater tank). Amber Laurie Alaimo wrote: > > For a fresh water planted tank, are Coralife 50/50 compact fluorescent > bulbs a good choice? My LFS has them on clearance :) > > ~ Laurie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47049	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

Endler's is just a genetic code in their genetics that tells the developing fish (in the mother before they are born) what that particular guppy's traits will be. It's like having red hair in humans, not every human has red hair, but some humans carry the genes for red hair and when you combine those genes with someone else who carries the red hair gene you will have red haired children (even if both parents do not actually HAVE red hair, they carry the gene). So both of your parent guppies carried the gene for Endler's (just a shape and coloring difference from "normal" guppies). Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the body type/colors they desire). I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. Amber Noura wrote: > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > there, but extremely faint. > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > of this fish. > > Thanks for any insight - > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47050	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

Also here's an article about Endler's guppies. http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/Endlers_Livebearer.html They state that they are not "normal" guppies but a different type of fish, but I agree with Lenny... if they can interbreed so easily they are definitely related more than just a little bit (genetically speaking) ;) Amber Noura wrote: > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > there, but extremely faint. > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > of this fish. > > Thanks for any insight - > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47051	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

Does your endler compare to the pictures on this link: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YjQIfAzTfZo/SPOITDMKFFI/AAAAAAAAASQ/0eY9HPOy66Q/s1600-h/elbsmallfig.jpg I've never had endler's livebearers, but I do have lots of guppies and I can easily say that some males are pale in color (on their body) where other males are brightly colored on their bodies, and then I have other males with black bodies, and silver bodies, so it just depends on the genetics combined. If these are hybrid guppy/endler's then it's a possibility that it took after the endler's in size/shape but took after the regular guppy for coloration and just has a pale body. But this is just a guess without seeing the fish in person ;) LOL. If the fish is still acting normal (eating, foraging, chasing the girls) I wouldn't worry too much but maybe keep an eye on him and see how he's doing for a week or so. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > there, but extremely faint. > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > of this fish. > > Thanks for any insight - > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47052	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

Oh and I forgot to add, if you got these from a fish store there's a chance that they were kept with "regular" guppies and somehow interbred before you bought them, and now you're seeing the hybrid babies. They easily breed with regular guppies, according to almost any site you read about them ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > there, but extremely faint. > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > of this fish. > > Thanks for any insight - > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47053	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

WHOA there! As someone who kept and bred Endler's and took the time to make sure I only bought pure lines I need to step in here and address a potential misconception. They were discovered in the wild in Venzuela in that color form. Not line bred to a specific look and named after the breeder. Here is is a wiki link(I don't like wikipedia but it works for this) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endler%27s_livebearer The link also gives the real name for the fish, but most of us still refer to them as Endler's. If anyone here does choose to keep them PLEASE do not hybridize them with guppies. If you choose to please do not sell them as Endler's or Wingei's, sell them as guppies please. Many of us want to continue with the wild form free from hybridizing with guppies. -Mike G. -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 7:33 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale . Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the body type/colors they desire). I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. Amber Noura wrote: > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > there, but extremely faint. > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > of this fish. > > Thanks for any insight - > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47054	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Leaking Rena XP 4

So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 canister filter? I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this week (had a HOB die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last week, but the HOB is not there this week so I now know it's the Rena XP 4 that's slowly dripping around the "lid" of the canister). These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm wondering how/why it may be doing this. It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about half way through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was barely dirty, so it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. I clean it every week like all my other filters. I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 that I use on my 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have on my 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the manufacturing process? If so I'd think I would have noticed the leak a long time ago, these are around a year old now. Any ideas? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47055	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

I already fixed my statement, but I can't take back my first email Mike, if you see my most recent replies I linked a site that talked about Dr. Endler and where he and another Dr originally found these guppies (living along side normal wild guppies). Sorry for any confusion guys/gals, been a long day of training new-hires at work and my brain is mush ;) LOL. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > WHOA there! > > As someone who kept and bred Endler's and took the time to make sure I > only bought pure lines I need to step in here and address a potential > misconception. > > They were discovered in the wild in Venzuela in that color form. Not > line bred to a specific look and named after the breeder. > Here is is a wiki link(I don't like wikipedia but it works for this) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endler%27s_livebearer > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endler%27s_livebearer> > > The link also gives the real name for the fish, but most of us still > refer to them as Endler's. > > If anyone here does choose to keep them PLEASE do not hybridize them > with guppies. If you choose to please do not sell them as Endler's or > Wingei's, sell them as guppies please. Many of us want to continue with > the wild form free from hybridizing with guppies. > > -Mike G. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 7:33 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > . Endler's are just > guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably > bred them special for many generations just so they could have their > own > special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs > together > for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the > body type/colors they desire). > I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene > (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails > that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both > parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, > and > > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color > and > > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a > LFS > > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in > colour > > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lainey Alexander > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > > there, but extremely faint. > > > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > > of this fish. > > > > Thanks for any insight - > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47056	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4

When you do maintenance, make sure you wipe the top of the plastic canister and also check for any debris on the rubber seal on the motor housing where it sits on top of the canister. If some debris ends up breaking the seal between the rubber seal and the plastic top of the canister, it can leak. I've never had that happen on either of my Rena's but I don't have an XP-4 but they are built the same except the XP-4 is taller and has a bigger motor. The reason it might not be happening right away is that the water is flowing back up to the tank easily when the filter media is clean but as it clogs up, there is some back pressure building up inside the canister and that puts more pressure on any possible areas that might be prone to leak. Use a flashlight and look around the lip of the motor housing to see if you can see where the leak is coming from so you will know where to look on the top of the canister or on the rubber seal. Hopefully it's not damaged and just some kind of debris. If the top of the plastic canister lip is dinged, you could probably fill that in with some epoxy and then sand it down to be even with the rest of the lip. If it's the rubber seal that's damaged, you can buy a new one from Rena. I've never looked at mine closely, other than to check for debris so it may even be an O-ring shoved up into the motor housing that sits down onto the canister lip. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 canister filter? I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this week (had a HOB die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last week, but the HOB is not there this week so I now know it's the Rena XP 4 that's slowly dripping around the "lid" of the canister). These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm wondering how/why it may be doing this. It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about half way through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was barely dirty, so it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. I clean it every week like all my other filters. I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 that I use on my 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have on my 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the manufacturing process? If so I'd think I would have noticed the leak a long time ago, these are around a year old now. Any ideas? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4

Thanks Lenny I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm not so tired, see if I can find any debris blocking the seal, or anything else that may be out of place in the motor part of the "lid". Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > When you do maintenance, make sure you wipe the top of the plastic > canister > and also check for any debris on the rubber seal on the motor housing > where > it sits on top of the canister. If some debris ends up breaking the seal > between the rubber seal and the plastic top of the canister, it can leak. > I've never had that happen on either of my Rena's but I don't have an XP-4 > but they are built the same except the XP-4 is taller and has a bigger > motor. The reason it might not be happening right away is that the > water is > flowing back up to the tank easily when the filter media is clean but > as it > clogs up, there is some back pressure building up inside the canister and > that puts more pressure on any possible areas that might be prone to leak. > Use a flashlight and look around the lip of the motor housing to see > if you > can see where the leak is coming from so you will know where to look > on the > top of the canister or on the rubber seal. Hopefully it's not damaged and > just some kind of debris. If the top of the plastic canister lip is > dinged, > you could probably fill that in with some epoxy and then sand it down > to be > even with the rest of the lip. If it's the rubber seal that's damaged, you > can buy a new one from Rena. I've never looked at mine closely, other than > to check for debris so it may even be an O-ring shoved up into the motor > housing that sits down onto the canister lip. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 canister filter? > I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this week (had a HOB > die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last week, but the HOB is > not there this week so I now know it's the Rena XP 4 that's slowly > dripping > around the "lid" of the canister). > These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm wondering > how/why it may be doing this. > It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about half way > through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was barely > dirty, so > it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. I clean it every week like > all my other filters. > I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 that I use > on my > 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have on my > 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the > manufacturing > process? If so I'd think I would have noticed the leak a long time ago, > these are around a year old now. > > Any ideas? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47058	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4

One other thing. Make sure all four clamps are clipped in properly. I'm not sure if you've ever noticed but they can come un-hinged from the canister bottom where they snap into little C-holders and then they won't clamp down properly and that one corner will leak since it's not holding down the motor housing as tightly as the other clamps. Report back with what was wrong and your results so I'll know if these suggestions worked. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 Thanks Lenny I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm not so tired, see if I can find any debris blocking the seal, or anything else that may be out of place in the motor part of the "lid". Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > When you do maintenance, make sure you wipe the top of the plastic > canister and also check for any debris on the rubber seal on the motor > housing where it sits on top of the canister. If some debris ends up > breaking the seal between the rubber seal and the plastic top of the > canister, it can leak. > I've never had that happen on either of my Rena's but I don't have an > XP-4 but they are built the same except the XP-4 is taller and has a > bigger motor. The reason it might not be happening right away is that > the water is flowing back up to the tank easily when the filter media > is clean but as it clogs up, there is some back pressure building up > inside the canister and that puts more pressure on any possible areas > that might be prone to leak. > Use a flashlight and look around the lip of the motor housing to see > if you can see where the leak is coming from so you will know where to > look on the top of the canister or on the rubber seal. Hopefully it's > not damaged and just some kind of debris. If the top of the plastic > canister lip is dinged, you could probably fill that in with some > epoxy and then sand it down to be even with the rest of the lip. If > it's the rubber seal that's damaged, you can buy a new one from Rena. > I've never looked at mine closely, other than to check for debris so > it may even be an O-ring shoved up into the motor housing that sits > down onto the canister lip. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 canister filter? > I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this week (had a > HOB die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last week, but > the HOB is not there this week so I now know it's the Rena XP 4 that's > slowly dripping around the "lid" of the canister). > These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm > wondering how/why it may be doing this. > It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about half way > through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was barely > dirty, so it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. I clean it > every week like all my other filters. > I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 that I use > on my > 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have on my > 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the > manufacturing process? If so I'd think I would have noticed the leak a > long time ago, these are around a year old now. > > Any ideas? > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47059	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4

The drips are occurring at the clips and it's dripping onto the floor from the bottom of each clip (at least 2 clips were dripping but it was a large puddle so I assume all 4 were dripping at some point), but all 4 clips are pushed in correctly, the drip is happening around the edge, and appeared to only be on one side when I was checking the canister filter over before I opened it and started cleaning it. *salutes* Yes Sir! will report back in, in the next 24-48 hours max ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > One other thing. Make sure all four clamps are clipped in properly. I'm > not sure if you've ever noticed but they can come un-hinged from the > canister bottom where they snap into little C-holders and then they won't > clamp down properly and that one corner will leak since it's not holding > down the motor housing as tightly as the other clamps. > > Report back with what was wrong and your results so I'll know if these > suggestions worked. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > Thanks Lenny I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm not so tired, see if > I can > find any debris blocking the seal, or anything else that may be out of > place > in the motor part of the "lid". > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > When you do maintenance, make sure you wipe the top of the plastic > > canister and also check for any debris on the rubber seal on the motor > > housing where it sits on top of the canister. If some debris ends up > > breaking the seal between the rubber seal and the plastic top of the > > canister, it can leak. > > I've never had that happen on either of my Rena's but I don't have an > > XP-4 but they are built the same except the XP-4 is taller and has a > > bigger motor. The reason it might not be happening right away is that > > the water is flowing back up to the tank easily when the filter media > > is clean but as it clogs up, there is some back pressure building up > > inside the canister and that puts more pressure on any possible areas > > that might be prone to leak. > > Use a flashlight and look around the lip of the motor housing to see > > if you can see where the leak is coming from so you will know where to > > look on the top of the canister or on the rubber seal. Hopefully it's > > not damaged and just some kind of debris. If the top of the plastic > > canister lip is dinged, you could probably fill that in with some > > epoxy and then sand it down to be even with the rest of the lip. If > > it's the rubber seal that's damaged, you can buy a new one from Rena. > > I've never looked at mine closely, other than to check for debris so > > it may even be an O-ring shoved up into the motor housing that sits > > down onto the canister lip. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 canister filter? > > I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this week (had a > > HOB die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last week, but > > the HOB is not there this week so I now know it's the Rena XP 4 that's > > slowly dripping around the "lid" of the canister). > > These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm > > wondering how/why it may be doing this. > > It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about half way > > through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was barely > > dirty, so it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. I clean it > > every week like all my other filters. > > I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 that I use > > on my > > 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have on my > > 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the > > manufacturing process? If so I'd think I would have noticed the leak a > > long time ago, these are around a year old now. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47060	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

Hi Amber, Sorry, when I wrote that I had not seen your replies. I try to make it a consitent habit to read my newest mail first so I do not reply to something that has already been answered, but it appears this time I goofed and read oldest to newest first. You did post some good information :) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 8:21 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale   I already fixed my statement, but I can't take back my first email Mike, if you see my most recent replies I linked a site that talked about Dr. Endler and where he and another Dr originally found these guppies (living along side normal wild guppies). Sorry for any confusion guys/gals, been a long day of training new-hires at work and my brain is mush ;) LOL. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > WHOA there! > > As someone who kept and bred Endler's and took the time to make sure I > only bought pure lines I need to step in here and address a potential > misconception. > > They were discovered in the wild in Venzuela in that color form. Not > line bred to a specific look and named after the breeder. > Here is is a wiki link(I don't like wikipedia but it works for this) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endler%27s_livebearer > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endler%27s_livebearer> > > The link also gives the real name for the fish, but most of us still > refer to them as Endler's. > > If anyone here does choose to keep them PLEASE do not hybridize them > with guppies. If you choose to please do not sell them as Endler's or > Wingei's, sell them as guppies please. Many of us want to continue with > the wild form free from hybridizing with guppies. > > -Mike G. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 7:33 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > . Endler's are just > guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably > bred them special for many generations just so they could have their > own > special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs > together > for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the > body type/colors they desire). > I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene > (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails > that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both > parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, > and > > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color > and > > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a > LFS > > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in > colour > > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lainey Alexander > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > > there, but extremely faint. > > > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > > of this fish. > > > > Thanks for any insight - > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47061	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

See, the problem is that this fish used to be brightly colored, and now is basically a pale yellowish color with no markings. None of the other male Endler's are doing this paling thing, but they were normal looking Endler's in the first place. So I guess my question is whether this fish is pale because he's a goofed up hybrid, or because something else is wrong with him. IOW could there be a genetic situation where a fish that is brightly colored becomes colorless over time? Or if he becomes colorless, does it mean something is wrong, like he's sick in some way? He doesn't act or seem sick at all, so I am perplexed. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 5, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Does your endler compare to the pictures on this link: > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YjQIfAzTfZo/SPOITDMKFFI/AAAAAAAAASQ/ > 0eY9HPOy66Q/s1600-h/elbsmallfig.jpg > I've never had endler's livebearers, but I do have lots of guppies > and I > can easily say that some males are pale in color (on their body) where > other males are brightly colored on their bodies, and then I have > other > males with black bodies, and silver bodies, so it just depends on the > genetics combined. If these are hybrid guppy/endler's then it's a > possibility that it took after the endler's in size/shape but took > after > the regular guppy for coloration and just has a pale body. But this is > just a guess without seeing the fish in person ;) LOL. If the fish is > still acting normal (eating, foraging, chasing the girls) I wouldn't > worry too much but maybe keep an eye on him and see how he's doing > for a > week or so. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is >> some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but >> is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the >> Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same >> markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - >> although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. >> >> Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and >> now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is >> there, but extremely faint. >> >> He acts normal, other than the coloring. >> >> Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? >> >> I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture >> later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot >> of this fish. >> >> Thanks for any insight - >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47062	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/5/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

The only "paling" I've heard of is with tattooed/dyed fish, they pale over time, and I've seen a few types of tetras that seem to pale over time, but I'm not sure if they were "painted" (tattooed with dye). Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > See, the problem is that this fish used to be brightly colored, and > now is basically a pale yellowish color with no markings. None of the > other male Endler's are doing this paling thing, but they were normal > looking Endler's in the first place. > > So I guess my question is whether this fish is pale because he's a > goofed up hybrid, or because something else is wrong with him. > > IOW could there be a genetic situation where a fish that is brightly > colored becomes colorless over time? Or if he becomes colorless, does > it mean something is wrong, like he's sick in some way? He doesn't > act or seem sick at all, so I am perplexed. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 5, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Does your endler compare to the pictures on this link: > > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YjQIfAzTfZo/SPOITDMKFFI/AAAAAAAAASQ/ > <http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YjQIfAzTfZo/SPOITDMKFFI/AAAAAAAAASQ/> > > 0eY9HPOy66Q/s1600-h/elbsmallfig.jpg > > I've never had endler's livebearers, but I do have lots of guppies > > and I > > can easily say that some males are pale in color (on their body) where > > other males are brightly colored on their bodies, and then I have > > other > > males with black bodies, and silver bodies, so it just depends on the > > genetics combined. If these are hybrid guppy/endler's then it's a > > possibility that it took after the endler's in size/shape but took > > after > > the regular guppy for coloration and just has a pale body. But this is > > just a guess without seeing the fish in person ;) LOL. If the fish is > > still acting normal (eating, foraging, chasing the girls) I wouldn't > > worry too much but maybe keep an eye on him and see how he's doing > > for a > > week or so. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > >> some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > >> is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > >> Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > >> markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > >> although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > >> > >> Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > >> now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > >> there, but extremely faint. > >> > >> He acts normal, other than the coloring. > >> > >> Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > >> > >> I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > >> later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > >> of this fish. > >> > >> Thanks for any insight - > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47063	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

When I saw what I thought were " undesired mutations", I stopped putting the pregnant females in hatcheries, thus all the fry got eaten, and when Summer came and the heat killed a lot of my guppies, I kept only the prettiest males in the guppy tank and transferred all the rest to my 20G, where they died of old age eventually and none of their offspring survived the Angels voracity! Then I baught three females from the LFS to insert "fresh" genes into the coming fry. Now I don't get any Endler's-like guppies anymore. Bottom line, Mike, you don't have to worry about any of my "Hybrids" reaching your tanks :) Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale WHOA there! As someone who kept and bred Endler's and took the time to make sure I only bought pure lines I need to step in here and address a potential misconception. They were discovered in the wild in Venzuela in that color form. Not line bred to a specific look and named after the breeder. Here is is a wiki link(I don't like wikipedia but it works for this) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endler%27s_livebearer The link also gives the real name for the fish, but most of us still refer to them as Endler's. If anyone here does choose to keep them PLEASE do not hybridize them with guppies. If you choose to please do not sell them as Endler's or Wingei's, sell them as guppies please. Many of us want to continue with the wild form free from hybridizing with guppies. -Mike G. -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 7:33 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale . Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the body type/colors they desire). I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. Amber Noura wrote: > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > there, but extremely faint. > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > of this fish. > > Thanks for any insight - > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47064	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

Any inputs? ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 12:34 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach My Clown Loach (1.5") has been laying on its side more than usual since three days (all the clown loaches that I had spent some times laying on their side or in upside-down funny positions without having any health problems), its breathing is rapid, and I saw some bloody red spot under the skin in the mouth and "chin" area, its anus is red too but I didn't examine the other two loaches to see if the red anus is normal or not. It's in a hospital tank now, waiting your suggestions. Thanks. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47065	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

Hi Noura, I would be happy to have your guppies. :) I actually keep some in a few tanks. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2010 12:58 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale   When I saw what I thought were " undesired mutations", I stopped putting the pregnant females in hatcheries, thus all the fry got eaten, and when Summer came and the heat killed a lot of my guppies, I kept only the prettiest males in the guppy tank and transferred all the rest to my 20G, where they died of old age eventually and none of their offspring survived the Angels voracity! Then I baught three females from the LFS to insert "fresh" genes into the coming fry. Now I don't get any Endler's-like guppies anymore. Bottom line, Mike, you don't have to worry about any of my "Hybrids" reaching your tanks :) Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale WHOA there! As someone who kept and bred Endler's and took the time to make sure I only bought pure lines I need to step in here and address a potential misconception. They were discovered in the wild in Venzuela in that color form. Not line bred to a specific look and named after the breeder. Here is is a wiki link(I don't like wikipedia but it works for this) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endler%27s_livebearer The link also gives the real name for the fish, but most of us still refer to them as Endler's. If anyone here does choose to keep them PLEASE do not hybridize them with guppies. If you choose to please do not sell them as Endler's or Wingei's, sell them as guppies please. Many of us want to continue with the wild form free from hybridizing with guppies. -Mike G. -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 7:33 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale . Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the body type/colors they desire). I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. Amber Noura wrote: > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > there, but extremely faint. > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > of this fish. > > Thanks for any insight - > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47066	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

Amber said, "Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the body type/colors they desire)." Not true. They are found in the wild in Venezuela, first discovered in 1937 by Franklyn F. Bond, then again in 1975 by John A. Endler. It has finally been described, and given the name _Poecilia wingei_ (Poeser, Kempkes & Isbrücker, 2005). You can read the description here: http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm It is suspected to be very closely related to the guppy (_Poecilia reticulate_), but there are some differences. The color pattern in guppies is very variable. The color pattern of Endler's is stable. Endler's will bear young every 23-24 days, guppies, on the other hand, will give birth ever 27-28 days. It easily breeds with the guppy, and, unfortunately, this is the fish you see in most shops when it is available. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale Endler's is just a genetic code in their genetics that tells the developing fish (in the mother before they are born) what that particular guppy's traits will be. It's like having red hair in humans, not every human has red hair, but some humans carry the genes for red hair and when you combine those genes with someone else who carries the red hair gene you will have red haired children (even if both parents do not actually HAVE red hair, they carry the gene). So both of your parent guppies carried the gene for Endler's (just a shape and coloring difference from "normal" guppies). Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the body type/colors they desire). I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. Amber Noura wrote: > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > there, but extremely faint. > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > of this fish. > > Thanks for any insight - > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47067	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

They are truly a real joy. if I had to keep only ONE species in my tanks, I would probably choose Guppies for their lovely peaceful tempers, their sociable qualities "not just to eachothers but also to us humans!), their funny presence, and for the fun and ease of breeding them. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale Hi Noura, I would be happy to have your guppies. :) I actually keep some in a few tanks. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2010 12:58 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale When I saw what I thought were " undesired mutations", I stopped putting the pregnant females in hatcheries, thus all the fry got eaten, and when Summer came and the heat killed a lot of my guppies, I kept only the prettiest males in the guppy tank and transferred all the rest to my 20G, where they died of old age eventually and none of their offspring survived the Angels voracity! Then I baught three females from the LFS to insert "fresh" genes into the coming fry. Now I don't get any Endler's-like guppies anymore. Bottom line, Mike, you don't have to worry about any of my "Hybrids" reaching your tanks :) Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale WHOA there! As someone who kept and bred Endler's and took the time to make sure I only bought pure lines I need to step in here and address a potential misconception. They were discovered in the wild in Venzuela in that color form. Not line bred to a specific look and named after the breeder. Here is is a wiki link(I don't like wikipedia but it works for this) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endler%27s_livebearer The link also gives the real name for the fish, but most of us still refer to them as Endler's. If anyone here does choose to keep them PLEASE do not hybridize them with guppies. If you choose to please do not sell them as Endler's or Wingei's, sell them as guppies please. Many of us want to continue with the wild form free from hybridizing with guppies. -Mike G. -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 7:33 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale . Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the body type/colors they desire). I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. Amber Noura wrote: > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > there, but extremely faint. > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > of this fish. > > Thanks for any insight - > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47068	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

I just found out that the second clown loach (also 1.5") has red gills, really red, but not swollen, without any other odd spots-symptoms on other parts of its body. It's swimming and eating and breathing normally.This one is still in the community tank with the third totally healthy-looking clown loach. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Any inputs? ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 12:34 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach My Clown Loach (1.5") has been laying on its side more than usual since three days (all the clown loaches that I had spent some times laying on their side or in upside-down funny positions without having any health problems), its breathing is rapid, and I saw some bloody red spot under the skin in the mouth and "chin" area, its anus is red too but I didn't examine the other two loaches to see if the red anus is normal or not. It's in a hospital tank now, waiting your suggestions. Thanks. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47069	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

Noura, Do you see any red streaking in the fins? What are your water parameters? Without being able to see the fish, your description sounds as though these fish may have a hemorrhagic septicemia condition, that would induce a red anal area (especially if this area is now swollen), as well as bloody red spotting under the skin. This is caused by poor water conditions that are high in ammonia or nitrite, or even in situations of much higher nitrate. If this is of a viral origin, there is no know cure for it, however it is often a bacterial issue caused by any number of different aeromonas sp. bacteria. As the manifestation of this condition is virtually the same in either case, it's prudent to proceed with a treatment. I know your sources for antibiotics are limited, but hopefully you're able to locate one of the more basic bacticides. ONLY AFTER performing sufficient PWC's so as to reduce your waste build-ups, administer either Erythromycin or Tetracycle (Note: use Oxytetracycline if your pH is above 7.5), as per directions on the container -- usually, 1 tablet or capsule per 10 gallons). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47070	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Brownish plants

Hi, Here's another problem that I'm facing in my 20G, and since I'm new to live plants, I have no idea what this is. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list Please check this photos and examine that brown stuff on my plants, is it algae? It's also on a rock that used to get green algae sometimes before. There two things that changed in the tank in the last couple of weeks, first I fixed an aluminum paper on the inside of the hood, right above the bulbs to get more light into the tank. And second, I used Methylin Blue (sp?) 5 drops/20G everyday for a week then stopped when I saw the brown stuff thinking that the plants were poisoned of the Methylin, but apparently it's something ON the leaves, not IN them, it comes out when rubbed with the fingers. I know brown Alage comes when there's little light, and green when there's too much light and/or nutrients/Nitrates. Did the chemical addition cause any inbalance in the tank? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47071	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

Noura, Without knowing how much lighting this tank is receiving, I can only venture a guess that it's most probably brown "algae" (diatoms) that you're seeing on these plants unless there are other unknown circumstances involved which would indicate otherwise. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47072	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

If the brownish stuff rubs off of the plant leaves, it's likely Diatoms (also called Brown Algae although it's not really an algae species). Diatoms are more common in newly set up tanks but can appear at other times as well, usually depending on the source water. For some general tips on what plant discolorations mean, as it pertains to nutrient deficiencies, check out these pages. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/nutrient-deficiency.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants Hi, Here's another problem that I'm facing in my 20G, and since I'm new to live plants, I have no idea what this is. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list Please check this photos and examine that brown stuff on my plants, is it algae? It's also on a rock that used to get green algae sometimes before. There two things that changed in the tank in the last couple of weeks, first I fixed an aluminum paper on the inside of the hood, right above the bulbs to get more light into the tank. And second, I used Methylin Blue (sp?) 5 drops/20G everyday for a week then stopped when I saw the brown stuff thinking that the plants were poisoned of the Methylin, but apparently it's something ON the leaves, not IN them, it comes out when rubbed with the fingers. I know brown Alage comes when there's little light, and green when there's too much light and/or nutrients/Nitrates. Did the chemical addition cause any inbalance in the tank? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47073	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

The poor fellow died a couple of hours ago, but I'm concerned about his tankmate, althought not showing anything weird other than the reddish gills. Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 I was planning on a 25% PWC today or tomorrow anyway. There were no red steakings in the fins of the dead loach, I uploaded a few clear photos, they will appear shortly when a moderator approves them "I thought you were a moderator yourself (?)". You'll see the red spots in the lower head and anal areas, there's a red line starting from the anus and going about 1/5" inside the body. As for the medications, I couldn't find Oxytetracycline, but can get Erythromycin. Should I now hospitalize the other clown loach and treat with Erythromycin? its gills are now less red in color, more like pink, still not swollen. Thanks for your help Noura . ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Noura, Do you see any red streaking in the fins? What are your water parameters? Without being able to see the fish, your description sounds as though these fish may have a hemorrhagic septicemia condition, that would induce a red anal area (especially if this area is now swollen), as well as bloody red spotting under the skin. This is caused by poor water conditions that are high in ammonia or nitrite, or even in situations of much higher nitrate. If this is of a viral origin, there is no know cure for it, however it is often a bacterial issue caused by any number of different aeromonas sp. bacteria. As the manifestation of this condition is virtually the same in either case, it's prudent to proceed with a treatment. I know your sources for antibiotics are limited, but hopefully you're able to locate one of the more basic bacticides. ONLY AFTER performing sufficient PWC's so as to reduce your waste build-ups, administer either Erythromycin or Tetracycle (Note: use Oxytetracycline if your pH is above 7.5), as per directions on the container -- usually, 1 tablet or capsule per 10 gallons). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

Has your water always been so hard and high pH? I don't recall seeing these kinds of numbers from you in the past. With such high pH water, you ABSOLUTELY need an ammonia test or better yet, one of the Seachem Ammonia Alert monitors in each of your tanks since even a very low level of ammonia becomes toxic at such a high pH. Next, if this is your normal baseline water parameters, you need to be more discerning about which kind of fish that you keep and ONLY keep fish that prefer your water parameters. This could be a reason for many of your fish health problems... trying to keep fish that simply cannot tolerate such hard water and high pH levels. Plant choices also need to be more thought out since you have a limited choice of plants that do OK with your water parameters. While many fish and plants can acclimate to a broad range of water parameters, that doesn't mean they can acclimate to the extremes of water parameters that you are showing right now. Clown loaches do not belong in such hard and high pH water, preferring a low to neutral pH. They should also be kept in a much larger tank. Even the Mongabay profile/care sheet suggests at least a 36", 35-45 gallon tank as a minimum starting tank for smaller species. My suggestion is at least a 6' long 100G+ tank for the minimum of three fish but five is recommended. I have included the Mongabay link and text below my sig in case you can't open the link. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Clown Loach, Tiger Loach, Clown Botia Botia macracanthus | Pictures Synonyms: Cobitis macracanthus Physical description: Moderately elongated and laterally compressed, the Clown Loach has an arched back. It has a straight body profile, a large head, and a mouth that faces downward. Four pairs of barbels surround its mouth. The Clown Loach has a small spine by its eyes, that often gets entangled in net mesh. The body coloration is orange, but paler at times when weak or frightened. Three broad, transverse black bands. The first, runs through the eye; the second starts in front of the dorsal fin and runs down to the belly; the third begins on the dorsal fin and extends to the anal fin. The caudal, pectoral, and anal fins are all red in color. Size/Length: To 20" (51 cm) in nature, usually not more than 12" (30 cm) in captivity. Similar species: None S: bottom; middle Habitat: Inhabits both flowing and still parts of rivers and lakes in Southeast Asia; Sumatra, Borneo, and Indonesia. Aquarium: A 36" (90 cm) or 35-45 gallon (132-170 L) tank is sufficient for small fish. When these fish reach 5" (13 cm), they should be moved to a considerably larger tank measuring at least 48" (122 cm). Provide numerous hiding places with caves, driftwood, and roots. A fine gravel bottom is needed for this fish burrows. The tank should be well-planted and have muted lighting. Water chemistry: pH 5-7.5 (7.0); 5-15 dH (8); 75-86°F (24-30°C) Social behavior: A good community fish to combine with medium to large sized species. The Clown Loach should be kept in schools of five or more fish as smaller groups do poorly. Clown Loaches are nocturnal and shy when first introduced, but soon become friendly towards their owner. Suggested companions: Cichlasomines , Trichogaster, Barbus, Loricarids. FOOD: Tablets; live; worms, snails, crustaceans, insect larvae; occasionally algae. SEX: The female is larger and has a thinner tail. Mature males have a more arched back and a wider tail spread. Breeding techniques: Not bred in captivity; most likely because they have probably never reached sexual maturity in an aquarium. In nature, the Clown Loach spawns during the rainy season in foaming, fast-flowing streams, spring fed creeks, and rivers. The fry move down to slower moving and estuaries of the same rivers, to grow up. Rumors of spawnings in captivity have not been proven. In Southeast Asian fish farms, some have claimed success by using hormone injections. Breeding potential: 10. No details about successful spawnings in an aquarium have been substantiated. Remarks: This fish makes clicking noises when frightened or trying to scare off other fish. The Clown Loach is sensitive to chemicals in the water and some medications. The Clown Loach is eaten in the countries where they come from and are said to taste good. This species grows very slowly. The Clown Loach's colors may fade when frightened, acclimating to a new tank, or ill. Its colors naturally fade with age. Difficulty of care: 5. The Clown Loach requires regular partial water changes to thrive and is susceptible disease. Live foods are required by this Loach. Do not keep the Clown Loach in small tanks. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach The poor fellow died a couple of hours ago, but I'm concerned about his tankmate, althought not showing anything weird other than the reddish gills. Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 I was planning on a 25% PWC today or tomorrow anyway. There were no red steakings in the fins of the dead loach, I uploaded a few clear photos, they will appear shortly when a moderator approves them "I thought you were a moderator yourself (?)". You'll see the red spots in the lower head and anal areas, there's a red line starting from the anus and going about 1/5" inside the body. As for the medications, I couldn't find Oxytetracycline, but can get Erythromycin. Should I now hospitalize the other clown loach and treat with Erythromycin? its gills are now less red in color, more like pink, still not swollen. Thanks for your help Noura . ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Noura, Do you see any red streaking in the fins? What are your water parameters? Without being able to see the fish, your description sounds as though these fish may have a hemorrhagic septicemia condition, that would induce a red anal area (especially if this area is now swollen), as well as bloody red spotting under the skin. This is caused by poor water conditions that are high in ammonia or nitrite, or even in situations of much higher nitrate. If this is of a viral origin, there is no know cure for it, however it is often a bacterial issue caused by any number of different aeromonas sp. bacteria. As the manifestation of this condition is virtually the same in either case, it's prudent to proceed with a treatment. I know your sources for antibiotics are limited, but hopefully you're able to locate one of the more basic bacticides. ONLY AFTER performing sufficient PWC's so as to reduce your waste build-ups, administer either Erythromycin or Tetracycle (Note: use Oxytetracycline if your pH is above 7.5), as per directions on the container -- usually, 1 tablet or capsule per 10 gallons). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47075	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

There are two fluorescent 24" bulbs: 1. White, 18 watts, 1090 lumins. 2. Pink, aquarium special, 20 watts. This is the same lighting kind that I've been using for the last year, "only with renewing the bulbs", and I never had this problem except when I added that alluminium sheet, and used the Methylin Blue. The 20G is bow front, its height is 20". I have posted photos but the moderators didn't approve them yet. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants Noura, Without knowing how much lighting this tank is receiving, I can only venture a guess that it's most probably brown "algae" (diatoms) that you're seeing on these plants unless there are other unknown circumstances involved which would indicate otherwise. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47076	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

Also try www.loaches.com <http://www.loaches.com/> for clown and other loaches. You will see that a group of six in a 72” tank with pH less than 7.5 is ideal for them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Has your water always been so hard and high pH? I don't recall seeing these kinds of numbers from you in the past. With such high pH water, you ABSOLUTELY need an ammonia test or better yet, one of the Seachem Ammonia Alert monitors in each of your tanks since even a very low level of ammonia becomes toxic at such a high pH. Next, if this is your normal baseline water parameters, you need to be more discerning about which kind of fish that you keep and ONLY keep fish that prefer your water parameters. This could be a reason for many of your fish health problems... trying to keep fish that simply cannot tolerate such hard water and high pH levels. Plant choices also need to be more thought out since you have a limited choice of plants that do OK with your water parameters. While many fish and plants can acclimate to a broad range of water parameters, that doesn't mean they can acclimate to the extremes of water parameters that you are showing right now. Clown loaches do not belong in such hard and high pH water, preferring a low to neutral pH. They should also be kept in a much larger tank. Even the Mongabay profile/care sheet suggests at least a 36", 35-45 gallon tank as a minimum starting tank for smaller species. My suggestion is at least a 6' long 100G+ tank for the minimum of three fish but five is recommended. I have included the Mongabay link and text below my sig in case you can't open the link. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html> mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Clown Loach, Tiger Loach, Clown Botia Botia macracanthus | Pictures Synonyms: Cobitis macracanthus Physical description: Moderately elongated and laterally compressed, the Clown Loach has an arched back. It has a straight body profile, a large head, and a mouth that faces downward. Four pairs of barbels surround its mouth. The Clown Loach has a small spine by its eyes, that often gets entangled in net mesh. The body coloration is orange, but paler at times when weak or frightened. Three broad, transverse black bands. The first, runs through the eye; the second starts in front of the dorsal fin and runs down to the belly; the third begins on the dorsal fin and extends to the anal fin. The caudal, pectoral, and anal fins are all red in color. Size/Length: To 20" (51 cm) in nature, usually not more than 12" (30 cm) in captivity. Similar species: None S: bottom; middle Habitat: Inhabits both flowing and still parts of rivers and lakes in Southeast Asia; Sumatra, Borneo, and Indonesia. Aquarium: A 36" (90 cm) or 35-45 gallon (132-170 L) tank is sufficient for small fish. When these fish reach 5" (13 cm), they should be moved to a considerably larger tank measuring at least 48" (122 cm). Provide numerous hiding places with caves, driftwood, and roots. A fine gravel bottom is needed for this fish burrows. The tank should be well-planted and have muted lighting. Water chemistry: pH 5-7.5 (7.0); 5-15 dH (8); 75-86°F (24-30°C) Social behavior: A good community fish to combine with medium to large sized species. The Clown Loach should be kept in schools of five or more fish as smaller groups do poorly. Clown Loaches are nocturnal and shy when first introduced, but soon become friendly towards their owner. Suggested companions: Cichlasomines , Trichogaster, Barbus, Loricarids. FOOD: Tablets; live; worms, snails, crustaceans, insect larvae; occasionally algae. SEX: The female is larger and has a thinner tail. Mature males have a more arched back and a wider tail spread. Breeding techniques: Not bred in captivity; most likely because they have probably never reached sexual maturity in an aquarium. In nature, the Clown Loach spawns during the rainy season in foaming, fast-flowing streams, spring fed creeks, and rivers. The fry move down to slower moving and estuaries of the same rivers, to grow up. Rumors of spawnings in captivity have not been proven. In Southeast Asian fish farms, some have claimed success by using hormone injections. Breeding potential: 10. No details about successful spawnings in an aquarium have been substantiated. Remarks: This fish makes clicking noises when frightened or trying to scare off other fish. The Clown Loach is sensitive to chemicals in the water and some medications. The Clown Loach is eaten in the countries where they come from and are said to taste good. This species grows very slowly. The Clown Loach's colors may fade when frightened, acclimating to a new tank, or ill. Its colors naturally fade with age. Difficulty of care: 5. The Clown Loach requires regular partial water changes to thrive and is susceptible disease. Live foods are required by this Loach. Do not keep the Clown Loach in small tanks. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach The poor fellow died a couple of hours ago, but I'm concerned about his tankmate, althought not showing anything weird other than the reddish gills. Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 I was planning on a 25% PWC today or tomorrow anyway. There were no red steakings in the fins of the dead loach, I uploaded a few clear photos, they will appear shortly when a moderator approves them "I thought you were a moderator yourself (?)". You'll see the red spots in the lower head and anal areas, there's a red line starting from the anus and going about 1/5" inside the body. As for the medications, I couldn't find Oxytetracycline, but can get Erythromycin. Should I now hospitalize the other clown loach and treat with Erythromycin? its gills are now less red in color, more like pink, still not swollen. Thanks for your help Noura . ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Noura, Do you see any red streaking in the fins? What are your water parameters? Without being able to see the fish, your description sounds as though these fish may have a hemorrhagic septicemia condition, that would induce a red anal area (especially if this area is now swollen), as well as bloody red spotting under the skin. This is caused by poor water conditions that are high in ammonia or nitrite, or even in situations of much higher nitrate. If this is of a viral origin, there is no know cure for it, however it is often a bacterial issue caused by any number of different aeromonas sp. bacteria. As the manifestation of this condition is virtually the same in either case, it's prudent to proceed with a treatment. I know your sources for antibiotics are limited, but hopefully you're able to locate one of the more basic bacticides. ONLY AFTER performing sufficient PWC's so as to reduce your waste build-ups, administer either Erythromycin or Tetracycle (Note: use Oxytetracycline if your pH is above 7.5), as per directions on the container -- usually, 1 tablet or capsule per 10 gallons). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47077	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

There's something interesting about these "algae", note the photo #1, the anubias nana leaves that are shaded by other leaves DID NOT have that brown stuff. there's one leave that has brown stuff on half of it, and the other half in the shade is clear. Does this indicate what this stuff is not growing due to lack of light? But in the link you provided, it says that it may occur if the lighting period is extended, does it mean that the newly added aluminium sheet reflector must go away? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 6:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants If the brownish stuff rubs off of the plant leaves, it's likely Diatoms (also called Brown Algae although it's not really an algae species). Diatoms are more common in newly set up tanks but can appear at other times as well, usually depending on the source water. For some general tips on what plant discolorations mean, as it pertains to nutrient deficiencies, check out these pages. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/nutrient-deficiency.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants Hi, Here's another problem that I'm facing in my 20G, and since I'm new to live plants, I have no idea what this is. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list Please check this photos and examine that brown stuff on my plants, is it algae? It's also on a rock that used to get green algae sometimes before. There two things that changed in the tank in the last couple of weeks, first I fixed an aluminum paper on the inside of the hood, right above the bulbs to get more light into the tank. And second, I used Methylin Blue (sp?) 5 drops/20G everyday for a week then stopped when I saw the brown stuff thinking that the plants were poisoned of the Methylin, but apparently it's something ON the leaves, not IN them, it comes out when rubbed with the fingers. I know brown Alage comes when there's little light, and green when there's too much light and/or nutrients/Nitrates. Did the chemical addition cause any inbalance in the tank? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47078	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

Noura - Anubias are notorious for growing brown and green algae when NOT in shade. I have some in shade with no algae, but those in light are always covered. What works for me is to pull them out every ten days to two weeks and soak them in a solution of water with 3% hydrogen peroxide in it. I use 4ml HP per gallon of water, and soak for several hours. Somehow that seems to kill the algae and keep it under control. Easier would be if I would simply put them all in the shade! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 6, 2010, at 1:36 PM, Noura wrote: > There's something interesting about these "algae", note the photo > #1, the anubias nana leaves that are shaded by other leaves DID NOT > have that brown stuff. there's one leave that has brown stuff on > half of it, and the other half in the shade is clear. Does this > indicate what this stuff is not growing due to lack of light? But > in the link you provided, it says that it may occur if the lighting > period is extended, does it mean that the newly added aluminium > sheet reflector must go away? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 6:03 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants > > If the brownish stuff rubs off of the plant leaves, it's likely > Diatoms > (also called Brown Algae although it's not really an algae species). > Diatoms are more common in newly set up tanks but can appear at > other times > as well, usually depending on the source water. > > For some general tips on what plant discolorations mean, as it > pertains to > nutrient deficiencies, check out these pages. > > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm > > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/nutrient-deficiency.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants > > Hi, > Here's another problem that I'm facing in my 20G, and since I'm new > to live > plants, I have no idea what this is. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/ > pic/list > > Please check this photos and examine that brown stuff on my plants, > is it > algae? It's also on a rock that used to get green algae sometimes > before. > There two things that changed in the tank in the last couple of > weeks, first > I fixed an aluminum paper on the inside of the hood, right above > the bulbs > to get more light into the tank. And second, I used Methylin Blue > (sp?) 5 > drops/20G everyday for a week then stopped when I saw the brown stuff > thinking that the plants were poisoned of the Methylin, but > apparently it's > something ON the leaves, not IN them, it comes out when rubbed with > the > fingers. I know brown Alage comes when there's little light, and > green when > there's too much light and/or nutrients/Nitrates. Did the chemical > addition > cause any inbalance in the tank? > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..>< > ((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/ > `7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47079	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

Thanks for the tip, Lainey. Is Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants Noura - Anubias are notorious for growing brown and green algae when NOT in shade. I have some in shade with no algae, but those in light are always covered. What works for me is to pull them out every ten days to two weeks and soak them in a solution of water with 3% hydrogen peroxide in it. I use 4ml HP per gallon of water, and soak for several hours. Somehow that seems to kill the algae and keep it under control. Easier would be if I would simply put them all in the shade! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47080	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

Ya. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 6, 2010, at 3:05 PM, Noura wrote: > Thanks for the tip, Lainey. Is Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants > > > Noura - > > Anubias are notorious for growing brown and green algae when NOT in > shade. I have some in shade with no algae, but those in light are > always covered. > > What works for me is to pull them out every ten days to two weeks and > soak them in a solution of water with 3% hydrogen peroxide in it. I > use 4ml HP per gallon of water, and soak for several hours. Somehow > that seems to kill the algae and keep it under control. Easier would > be if I would simply put them all in the shade! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.· > ´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((؛> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .· > ´¯`·..<؛((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47081	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

I don't like using medications arbitrarily, nor treating either unnecessarily or for something unknown but with one fish dead already I think the other fish showing the same symptoms should be treated. I don't see any other suggestions coming forth and time is slipping by while your 2nd Loach manifests these same symptoms. I think it prudent to treat this animal ASAP with the Erythromycin you can obtain, and trust this condition has been caught in time. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47082	From: Debra Melton	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

Hi Noura: I have a 20 gallon tall tank that had issues with green water and algae until I switched to 15 watt Daylight SHO lights. Now with 2 SHO's in the plants are growing like weeds without any algae problems at all. This same tank went through the brown diatoms when it was first set up but again it cleared up with the SHO lights. Deb OS, MS 2010/3/6 Noura <n-taweel@...> > Thanks for the tip, Lainey. Is Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants > > > Noura - > > Anubias are notorious for growing brown and green algae when NOT in > shade. I have some in shade with no algae, but those in light are > always covered. > > What works for me is to pull them out every ten days to two weeks and > soak them in a solution of water with 3% hydrogen peroxide in it. I > use 4ml HP per gallon of water, and soak for several hours. Somehow > that seems to kill the algae and keep it under control. Easier would > be if I would simply put them all in the shade! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((؛> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<؛((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Debra L. Melton, Network Director Saints 2010 Superbowl Champions! Geaux Saints!!! To be part of our community response to homelessness - Click here: http://www.oslbihn org and donate $50, $150, $250 and you can help homeless families with children staying at Rebekah's House with food, shelter, and case management services aimed at getting the families into permanent housing. Ocean Springs - Long Beach Interfaith Hospitality Network PO Box 8562 | Biloxi, MS 39535 | 228-388-3061 Voice Mail 228-760-2981 Cell Phone [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47083	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: First Breeding of the Dwarf Cuttlefish in North America Announced

Often one sees talk here of using a cuttlebone to help maintain a specific hardness in the aquarium. It appears that now one may no longer need to go out and purchase the cuttlebone, but merely raise and breed the fish itself for an unending supply of this bone. Not only that, but fish raised beyond your own needs could be sold http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatfishblog/2010/02/24/first-breeding-of-the- dwarf-cuttlefish-in-north-america-announced/ http://tinyurl.com/ybrb9zx First Breeding of the Dwarf Cuttlefish in North America Announced Hello, Frank Indiviglio here. California's Steinhart Aquarium (a "must see, by the way") has become the first American aquarium to breed the dwarf cuttlefish (Sepia bandensis), and the first anywhere to do so on a large scale. Marine hobbyists have reason to celebrate, as this smallest of the world's cuttlefishes, the only one that can reasonably be expected to do well in home aquariums, has until now been in short supply (large cuttlefish species require a great deal of room, and are not practical inhabitants for most home or even public aquariums). Lessons learned at Steinhart may someday help to establish breeding populations of this most fascinating Cephalopod among private aquarists. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47084	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Rain Fish in Australia

http://www.news.com.au/national/its-raining-fish-in-the-northern-territory-r eport/story-e6frfkvr-1225835295781 http://tinyurl.com/yztzsno It's raining fish in the Northern Territory - report * From: Northern Territory News * February 28, 2010 4:28PM WHILE the Top End and Central Australia have been battered by torrential rains, a Territory town has reportedly had fish falling from the sky. The freak phenomena happened not once, but twice, on Thursday and Friday afternoon about 6pm at Lajamanu, about 550km southwest of Katherine, The Northern Territory News reports. Christine Balmer, who took the photos of the fish on the ground and in a bucket, said she had to pinch herself when she was told "hundreds and hundreds" of small white fish had fallen from the sky. "It rained fish in Lajamanu on Thursday and Friday night," she said, "They fell from the sky everywhere. "Locals were picking them up off the footy oval and on the ground everywhere. Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar. End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar. "These fish were alive when they hit the ground." Mrs Balmer, the aged care co-ordinator at the Lajamanu Aged Care Centre, said her family interstate thought she had lost the plot when she told them about the event. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47085	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

My only thoughts on this were; my botia kubotai's often lounge on the gravel, and I've often paused and walked over to make sure they're still alive since they weren't swimming, and then I'd scare them away by walking up to the tank (movement). One of my smaller botia kubotai likes to lay on it's side more than the others, but is still seen foraging for food and socializing with the other botia kubotai's, it just lays down a lot more often I've noticed. I've also seen lots of pics of various types of loaches on loaches.com that have red around their mouth/barbells, but I never noticed red around the anus area. Do these pictures in the following link have red on them like your clown loach or is yours worse? http://www.loaches.com/articles/images/clown-loach-coloration-marking-variations/?searchterm=clown%20loach If the link breaks you can just go directly to www.loaches.com and in the search field type in clown loach and it'll show you all their clown loach pages with info. Have you tested your water parameters to see if anything is off? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate for starters. Amber Noura wrote: > > Any inputs? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 12:34 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > My Clown Loach (1.5") has been laying on its side more than usual > since three days (all the clown loaches that I had spent some times > laying on their side or in upside-down funny positions without having > any health problems), its breathing is rapid, and I saw some bloody > red spot under the skin in the mouth and "chin" area, its anus is red > too but I didn't examine the other two loaches to see if the red anus > is normal or not. It's in a hospital tank now, waiting your > suggestions. Thanks. > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47086	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

This is now the second time I wish I could just go back and delete my first email, ugh... Slightly frustrating since I already corrected myself in a more recent post on this topic (in fact right after I sent my first email on this topic, LOL). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber said, "Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone > with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations > just so > they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed > different > types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until > they finally get the body type/colors they desire)." > > Not true. They are found in the wild in Venezuela, first discovered in > 1937 > by Franklyn F. Bond, then again in 1975 by John A. Endler. It has finally > been described, and given the name _Poecilia wingei_ (Poeser, Kempkes & > Isbrücker, 2005). You can read the description here: > http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf > <http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf> > > http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm <http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm> > > It is suspected to be very closely related to the guppy (_Poecilia > reticulate_), but there are some differences. The color pattern in guppies > is very variable. The color pattern of Endler's is stable. Endler's will > bear young every 23-24 days, guppies, on the other hand, will give birth > ever 27-28 days. It easily breeds with the guppy, and, unfortunately, this > is the fish you see in most shops when it is available. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > Endler's is just a genetic code in their genetics that tells the > developing fish (in the mother before they are born) what that > particular guppy's traits will be. It's like having red hair in humans, > not every human has red hair, but some humans carry the genes for red > hair and when you combine those genes with someone else who carries the > red hair gene you will have red haired children (even if both parents do > not actually HAVE red hair, they carry the gene). > So both of your parent guppies carried the gene for Endler's (just a > shape and coloring difference from "normal" guppies). Endler's are just > guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably > bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own > special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together > for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the > body type/colors they desire). > I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene > (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails > that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both > parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lainey Alexander > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > > there, but extremely faint. > > > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > > of this fish. > > > > Thanks for any insight - > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47087	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Rain Fish in Australia

I posted this a week or so ago and even boasted that I was beating \\Steve// to a whacky fish story in my post. LOL Somehow, it made one of the stories on The Drudge Report... not sure why it made The Drudge Report unless there was a rumor that maybe AlGore was trying to blame it on climate change. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Fish in Australia http://www.news.com.au/national/its-raining-fish-in-the-northern-territory-r eport/story-e6frfkvr-1225835295781 http://tinyurl.com/yztzsno It's raining fish in the Northern Territory - report * From: Northern Territory News * February 28, 2010 4:28PM WHILE the Top End and Central Australia have been battered by torrential rains, a Territory town has reportedly had fish falling from the sky. The freak phenomena happened not once, but twice, on Thursday and Friday afternoon about 6pm at Lajamanu, about 550km southwest of Katherine, The Northern Territory News reports. Christine Balmer, who took the photos of the fish on the ground and in a bucket, said she had to pinch herself when she was told "hundreds and hundreds" of small white fish had fallen from the sky. "It rained fish in Lajamanu on Thursday and Friday night," she said, "They fell from the sky everywhere. "Locals were picking them up off the footy oval and on the ground everywhere. Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar. End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar. "These fish were alive when they hit the ground." Mrs Balmer, the aged care co-ordinator at the Lajamanu Aged Care Centre, said her family interstate thought she had lost the plot when she told them about the event. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47088	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

> Amber said, "Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and > someone with the name Endler probably bred them special for many > generations just so they could have their own special "breed" (much > like people breed different types of dogs together for many > generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the body > type/colors they desire)." That's not correct Amber. See below. While we're lashing you with a wet noodle, I figured I'd get in on the fun! :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale This is now the second time I wish I could just go back and delete my first email, ugh... Slightly frustrating since I already corrected myself in a more recent post on this topic (in fact right after I sent my first email on this topic, LOL). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Not true. They are found in the wild in Venezuela, first discovered in > 1937 > by Franklyn F. Bond, then again in 1975 by John A. Endler. It has > finally been described, and given the name _Poecilia wingei_ (Poeser, > Kempkes & Isbrücker, 2005). You can read the description here: > http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf > <http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf> > > http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm <http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm> > > It is suspected to be very closely related to the guppy (_Poecilia > reticulate_), but there are some differences. The color pattern in > guppies is very variable. The color pattern of Endler's is stable. > Endler's will bear young every 23-24 days, guppies, on the other hand, > will give birth ever 27-28 days. It easily breeds with the guppy, and, > unfortunately, this is the fish you see in most shops when it is available. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > Endler's is just a genetic code in their genetics that tells the > developing fish (in the mother before they are born) what that > particular guppy's traits will be. It's like having red hair in > humans, not every human has red hair, but some humans carry the genes > for red hair and when you combine those genes with someone else who > carries the red hair gene you will have red haired children (even if > both parents do not actually HAVE red hair, they carry the gene). > So both of your parent guppies carried the gene for Endler's (just a > shape and coloring difference from "normal" guppies). Endler's are > just guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler > probably bred them special for many generations just so they could > have their own special "breed" (much like people breed different types > of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until > they finally get the body type/colors they desire). > I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" > gene (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split > tails that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), > both parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, > > and saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some > > photos, they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" > > guppies bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and > > their offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed > > to be "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too > > because there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color > > and tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed > > with their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies > > from a LFS have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in > > colour with different very bright colored spots such as orange, > > phosphoric green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lainey Alexander > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them > > is some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, > > but is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > > there, but extremely faint. > > > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a > > picture later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a > > clear shot of this fish. > > > > Thanks for any insight - > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47089	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Dubai Aquarium Leak Fixed/Explained

http://www.sahilonline.org/english/news.php?catID=gulfnews&nid=7561 http://tinyurl.com/yl7ehmh Leak in Dubai Mall's aquarium rectified S.O. News Service, Friday, 05 March 2010 - 03:01:49 IST Dubai: Improper application of acrylic cement or a pressure-induced structural problem on the panel may have caused the rear left side of the shark-filled aquarium at Dubai Mall to leak on February 25, sources told XPRESS. Specialist teams from Australia and Japan were called to check the problem at the aquarium, whose size earned it an entry in the Guinness World Records when it first opened in November 2008. The leak was detected around 11.45am on Thursday on the left-hand side of the tank near the entrance of the walk-through tunnel, sending shoppers scampering to higher ground and prompting the mall management to shut down nearby boutiques. The aquarium reopened on Friday, but the area where the leak occurred remained closed till a week later, covered by huge posters showing colourful marine life. Witnesses said the water seeped through signature apparel shops nearby. The mall management has stated, however, that none of the more than 33,000 aquatic animals inside nor the aquarium environment were affected as the leak occurred in the upper portion. Sources said the leak, which was plugged by around 2pm, may have been exacerbated by the high pressure build-up in the aquarium which holds 10 million litres of water. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47090	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Scales of Justice: In Zurich, Even Fish Have a Lawyer

Pay attention here people. There are groups in this country that are working toward this becoming the case in the good old USA, as well as many other places in the world. They feel that animals, now classified as property for domesticated animals, should be given the same rights as you and me. While this is not the purpose of this list, you can simply have a peek at pet-law here on Yahoo! to find out some stuff about this move in this country, as well as some activities elsewhere. This list concentrated mostly on dogs, but other animals are coming under inspection as well as efforts step up in those areas. Please be warned that this is a high traffic list, should you join, but you can become adept at deleting or skipping over messages not of interest to you. Now, on to the article. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703915204575103520836794314.ht ml?mod=googlenews_wsj http://tinyurl.com/yz2wqsz Scales of Justice: In Zurich, Even Fish Have a Lawyer On Sunday, Swiss Vote on National Bill To Appoint Public Defenders for Animals By DEBORAH BALL ZURICH-Last month, Antoine Goetschel went to court here in defense of an unusual client: a 22-pound pike that had fought a fisherman for 10 minutes before surrendering. Mr. Goetschel is the official animal lawyer for the Swiss canton of Zurich, a sort of public defender who represents the interests of pets, farm animals and wildlife. He wound up with the pike as a client when animal-welfare groups filed a complaint alleging animal cruelty in the fish's epic battle with an amateur angler. The case emerged after a local newspaper photo showed the fisherman proudly showing off the four-foot-long fish-a scene that, to Mr. Goetschel, was reminiscent of a safari hunter with his foot perched on the head of a dead lion. "It is this Hemingway thinking," he says. "Why should this be legal when other animals have to be slaughtered in a humane way?" Mr. Goetschel is the only official animal lawyer in Switzerland, but that may be about to change. On Sunday, the Swiss will vote on a referendum that would compel all of Switzerland's cantons to hire animal lawyers. The rationale: If people accused of mistreating animals can hire lawyers, the victims of such abuse are also entitled to representation. The Swiss government is urging voters to reject the referendum, arguing the money should instead go to uncovering animal abuse. Switzerland's farm lobby is against the proposal and argues that farmers are already closely monitored by state veterinarians. To make their case, the referendum's supporters have thrown the spotlight on Mr. Goetschel, a voluble 51-year-old attorney and descendant of composer Sergei Rachmaninoff who has held the Zurich post since 2007 and who represented the pike. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47091	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Rain Fish in Australia

Lenny, You may have beaten me to the post, but it has been sitting in my browser for some time. I've been going through all the open tabs today to clean it up, and now just have some Flixxy things to watch, after this playlist is over--the Mardi Gras one I told you about. After that, I have some webinars to listen to about backups, a site called AMSER, Applied Math and Science Education Repository, and some concerts, to whit: Steve Miller at the Beacon Theater, NYC, May, 1976; Neil Young, Shoreline Ampitheater, Mountain View, CA November, 1991; John Fogerty & Grateful Dead, Golden Gate Park, San Francisco, November, 1991; and Grateful Dead Fillmore West, January 1966. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Rain Fish in Australia I posted this a week or so ago and even boasted that I was beating \\Steve// to a whacky fish story in my post. LOL Somehow, it made one of the stories on The Drudge Report... not sure why it made The Drudge Report unless there was a rumor that maybe AlGore was trying to blame it on climate change. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rain Fish in Australia http://www.news.com.au/national/its-raining-fish-in-the-northern-territory-r eport/story-e6frfkvr-1225835295781 http://tinyurl.com/yztzsno It's raining fish in the Northern Territory - report * From: Northern Territory News * February 28, 2010 4:28PM WHILE the Top End and Central Australia have been battered by torrential rains, a Territory town has reportedly had fish falling from the sky. The freak phenomena happened not once, but twice, on Thursday and Friday afternoon about 6pm at Lajamanu, about 550km southwest of Katherine, The Northern Territory News reports. Christine Balmer, who took the photos of the fish on the ground and in a bucket, said she had to pinch herself when she was told "hundreds and hundreds" of small white fish had fallen from the sky. "It rained fish in Lajamanu on Thursday and Friday night," she said, "They fell from the sky everywhere. "Locals were picking them up off the footy oval and on the ground everywhere. Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar. End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar. "These fish were alive when they hit the ground." Mrs Balmer, the aged care co-ordinator at the Lajamanu Aged Care Centre, said her family interstate thought she had lost the plot when she told them about the event. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47092	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

Amber, Yes, I saw the other posts later, but you have to admit, mine was more thorough, right? Want more info? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale This is now the second time I wish I could just go back and delete my first email, ugh... Slightly frustrating since I already corrected myself in a more recent post on this topic (in fact right after I sent my first email on this topic, LOL). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber said, "Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone > with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations > just so > they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed > different > types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until > they finally get the body type/colors they desire)." > > Not true. They are found in the wild in Venezuela, first discovered in > 1937 > by Franklyn F. Bond, then again in 1975 by John A. Endler. It has finally > been described, and given the name _Poecilia wingei_ (Poeser, Kempkes & > Isbrücker, 2005). You can read the description here: > http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf > <http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf> > > http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm <http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm> > > It is suspected to be very closely related to the guppy (_Poecilia > reticulate_), but there are some differences. The color pattern in guppies > is very variable. The color pattern of Endler's is stable. Endler's will > bear young every 23-24 days, guppies, on the other hand, will give birth > ever 27-28 days. It easily breeds with the guppy, and, unfortunately, this > is the fish you see in most shops when it is available. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > Endler's is just a genetic code in their genetics that tells the > developing fish (in the mother before they are born) what that > particular guppy's traits will be. It's like having red hair in humans, > not every human has red hair, but some humans carry the genes for red > hair and when you combine those genes with someone else who carries the > red hair gene you will have red haired children (even if both parents do > not actually HAVE red hair, they carry the gene). > So both of your parent guppies carried the gene for Endler's (just a > shape and coloring difference from "normal" guppies). Endler's are just > guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably > bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own > special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together > for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the > body type/colors they desire). > I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene > (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails > that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both > parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lainey Alexander > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > > there, but extremely faint. > > > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > > of this fish. > > > > Thanks for any insight - > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47093	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

:P that's all I gotta say to this topic now ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Amber said, "Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and > > someone with the name Endler probably bred them special for many > > generations just so they could have their own special "breed" (much > > like people breed different types of dogs together for many > > generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the body > > type/colors they desire)." > > That's not correct Amber. See below. > > While we're lashing you with a wet noodle, I figured I'd get in on the > fun! > :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > This is now the second time I wish I could just go back and delete my > first > email, ugh... Slightly frustrating since I already corrected myself in a > more recent post on this topic (in fact right after I sent my first > email on > this topic, LOL). > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > Not true. They are found in the wild in Venezuela, first discovered in > > 1937 > > by Franklyn F. Bond, then again in 1975 by John A. Endler. It has > > finally been described, and given the name _Poecilia wingei_ (Poeser, > > Kempkes & Isbrücker, 2005). You can read the description here: > > http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf > <http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf> > > <http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf > <http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf>> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm <http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm> > <http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm <http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm>> > > > > It is suspected to be very closely related to the guppy (_Poecilia > > reticulate_), but there are some differences. The color pattern in > > guppies is very variable. The color pattern of Endler's is stable. > > Endler's will bear young every 23-24 days, guppies, on the other hand, > > will give birth ever 27-28 days. It easily breeds with the guppy, and, > > unfortunately, this is the fish you see in most shops when it is > available. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > > > Endler's is just a genetic code in their genetics that tells the > > developing fish (in the mother before they are born) what that > > particular guppy's traits will be. It's like having red hair in > > humans, not every human has red hair, but some humans carry the genes > > for red hair and when you combine those genes with someone else who > > carries the red hair gene you will have red haired children (even if > > both parents do not actually HAVE red hair, they carry the gene). > > So both of your parent guppies carried the gene for Endler's (just a > > shape and coloring difference from "normal" guppies). Endler's are > > just guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler > > probably bred them special for many generations just so they could > > have their own special "breed" (much like people breed different types > > of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until > > they finally get the body type/colors they desire). > > I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" > > gene (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split > > tails that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), > > both parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. > > > > Amber > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, > > > and saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some > > > photos, they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" > > > guppies bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and > > > their offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed > > > to be "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too > > > because there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > > > > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color > > > and tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed > > > with their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies > > > from a LFS have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > > > > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in > > > colour with different very bright colored spots such as orange, > > > phosphoric green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lainey Alexander > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > > > > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them > > > is some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, > > > but is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > > > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > > > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > > > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > > > > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > > > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > > > there, but extremely faint. > > > > > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > > > > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > > > > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a > > > picture later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a > > > clear shot of this fish. > > > > > > Thanks for any insight - > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47094	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Male Endler's pale

Yes I admit that the .pdf file had a lot of info on it. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Yes, I saw the other posts later, but you have to admit, mine was more > thorough, right? Want more info? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 6:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > This is now the second time I wish I could just go back and delete my > first email, ugh... Slightly frustrating since I already corrected > myself in a more recent post on this topic (in fact right after I sent > my first email on this topic, LOL). > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Amber said, "Endler's are just guppies with special coloring and someone > > with the name Endler probably bred them special for many generations > > just so > > they could have their own special "breed" (much like people breed > > different > > types of dogs together for many generations, with some outcrossing until > > they finally get the body type/colors they desire)." > > > > Not true. They are found in the wild in Venezuela, first discovered in > > 1937 > > by Franklyn F. Bond, then again in 1975 by John A. Endler. It has > finally > > been described, and given the name _Poecilia wingei_ (Poeser, Kempkes & > > Isbrücker, 2005). You can read the description here: > > http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf > <http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf> > > <http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf > <http://www.goodeids.com/docs/POESER_2005_WINGEI.pdf>> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm <http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm> > <http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm <http://tinyurl.com/ykvwqpm>> > > > > It is suspected to be very closely related to the guppy (_Poecilia > > reticulate_), but there are some differences. The color pattern in > guppies > > is very variable. The color pattern of Endler's is stable. Endler's will > > bear young every 23-24 days, guppies, on the other hand, will give birth > > ever 27-28 days. It easily breeds with the guppy, and, > unfortunately, this > > is the fish you see in most shops when it is available. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > > > Endler's is just a genetic code in their genetics that tells the > > developing fish (in the mother before they are born) what that > > particular guppy's traits will be. It's like having red hair in humans, > > not every human has red hair, but some humans carry the genes for red > > hair and when you combine those genes with someone else who carries the > > red hair gene you will have red haired children (even if both parents do > > not actually HAVE red hair, they carry the gene). > > So both of your parent guppies carried the gene for Endler's (just a > > shape and coloring difference from "normal" guppies). Endler's are just > > guppies with special coloring and someone with the name Endler probably > > bred them special for many generations just so they could have their own > > special "breed" (much like people breed different types of dogs together > > for many generations, with some outcrossing until they finally get the > > body type/colors they desire). > > I have some guppies in my current tank that carry the "split tail" gene > > (also called lyretail) and some of my babies have colorful split tails > > that look funny (because they're not very uniform in shape), both > > parents just happened to carry the gene for lyretail. > > > > Amber > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > I haven't heard of Endler's Livebearers before, so I googled them, and > > > saw different photos of them. I immediately recognized some photos, > > > they were exactly what I had two years ago when my "regular" guppies > > > bred with their own offspring, all the original guppies and their > > > offspring looked like guppies, but several male fry developed to be > > > "Endlers", and I believe there were some Endler's females too because > > > there were some colorless females among the descendants. > > > > > > At that time I thought that the strain is loosing the "good" color and > > > tail's size qualities because I allowed the parents to breed with > > > their own offspring. so now I'm just wondering, can guppies from a LFS > > > have Endler's offsprings in the second generation? > > > > > > Btw, my suspected-to-be Endler's livebearer males were beige in colour > > > with different very bright colored spots such as orange, phosphoric > > > green, yellow, dark black. and colorless tails. > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Lainey Alexander > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:10 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Male Endler's pale > > > > > > I have a school of five Endler's Livebearer males, and one of them is > > > some kind of large, odd looking hybrid. He looks like a female, but > > > is not a female. He's probably twice the size of the rest of the > > > Endler's and certainly is not an Endler's but has many of the same > > > markings so probably is part Endler's and part some other guppy - > > > although he is a lot larger than a normal guppy male. > > > > > > Anyway, this fish used to be quite colorful as Endler's can be, and > > > now is consistently pale like a female guppy. The male coloring is > > > there, but extremely faint. > > > > > > He acts normal, other than the coloring. > > > > > > Is he just an unhealthy mutant? What does this paleness mean? > > > > > > I don't have my camera at the moment but if needed can take a picture > > > later although I doubt my camera will be able to manage a clear shot > > > of this fish. > > > > > > Thanks for any insight - > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>>> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47095	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

Hi Lenny, Yes, everytime i posted my aquarium water and baseline water parameters, there were such high levels of hardness and pH. I don't know much about how far a fish can go in acclimating to our water, but fish bought from our LFSs do thrive in this water somehow, even Angelfish and soft water fish. I had Clown Loaches for more than two years, and this is the first time that I lost one of this species, even the first time that one of them gets sick. I usually trade them at the fish store when they grow to about 3"-4" long , and get baby ones instead, I've done that twice , trading 3 loaches each time. So maybe they did acclimate to our water hardness? As for the ammonia.. I have no access to a test kit or instant indicators at the moment, unfortunatly. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 6:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Has your water always been so hard and high pH? I don't recall seeing these kinds of numbers from you in the past. With such high pH water, you ABSOLUTELY need an ammonia test or better yet, one of the Seachem Ammonia Alert monitors in each of your tanks since even a very low level of ammonia becomes toxic at such a high pH. Next, if this is your normal baseline water parameters, you need to be more discerning about which kind of fish that you keep and ONLY keep fish that prefer your water parameters. This could be a reason for many of your fish health problems... trying to keep fish that simply cannot tolerate such hard water and high pH levels. Plant choices also need to be more thought out since you have a limited choice of plants that do OK with your water parameters. While many fish and plants can acclimate to a broad range of water parameters, that doesn't mean they can acclimate to the extremes of water parameters that you are showing right now. Clown loaches do not belong in such hard and high pH water, preferring a low to neutral pH. They should also be kept in a much larger tank. Even the Mongabay profile/care sheet suggests at least a 36", 35-45 gallon tank as a minimum starting tank for smaller species. My suggestion is at least a 6' long 100G+ tank for the minimum of three fish but five is recommended. I have included the Mongabay link and text below my sig in case you can't open the link. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Clown Loach, Tiger Loach, Clown Botia Botia macracanthus | Pictures Synonyms: Cobitis macracanthus Physical description: Moderately elongated and laterally compressed, the Clown Loach has an arched back. It has a straight body profile, a large head, and a mouth that faces downward. Four pairs of barbels surround its mouth. The Clown Loach has a small spine by its eyes, that often gets entangled in net mesh. The body coloration is orange, but paler at times when weak or frightened. Three broad, transverse black bands. The first, runs through the eye; the second starts in front of the dorsal fin and runs down to the belly; the third begins on the dorsal fin and extends to the anal fin. The caudal, pectoral, and anal fins are all red in color. Size/Length: To 20" (51 cm) in nature, usually not more than 12" (30 cm) in captivity. Similar species: None S: bottom; middle Habitat: Inhabits both flowing and still parts of rivers and lakes in Southeast Asia; Sumatra, Borneo, and Indonesia. Aquarium: A 36" (90 cm) or 35-45 gallon (132-170 L) tank is sufficient for small fish. When these fish reach 5" (13 cm), they should be moved to a considerably larger tank measuring at least 48" (122 cm). Provide numerous hiding places with caves, driftwood, and roots. A fine gravel bottom is needed for this fish burrows. The tank should be well-planted and have muted lighting. Water chemistry: pH 5-7.5 (7.0); 5-15 dH (8); 75-86°F (24-30°C) Social behavior: A good community fish to combine with medium to large sized species. The Clown Loach should be kept in schools of five or more fish as smaller groups do poorly. Clown Loaches are nocturnal and shy when first introduced, but soon become friendly towards their owner. Suggested companions: Cichlasomines , Trichogaster, Barbus, Loricarids. FOOD: Tablets; live; worms, snails, crustaceans, insect larvae; occasionally algae. SEX: The female is larger and has a thinner tail. Mature males have a more arched back and a wider tail spread. Breeding techniques: Not bred in captivity; most likely because they have probably never reached sexual maturity in an aquarium. In nature, the Clown Loach spawns during the rainy season in foaming, fast-flowing streams, spring fed creeks, and rivers. The fry move down to slower moving and estuaries of the same rivers, to grow up. Rumors of spawnings in captivity have not been proven. In Southeast Asian fish farms, some have claimed success by using hormone injections. Breeding potential: 10. No details about successful spawnings in an aquarium have been substantiated. Remarks: This fish makes clicking noises when frightened or trying to scare off other fish. The Clown Loach is sensitive to chemicals in the water and some medications. The Clown Loach is eaten in the countries where they come from and are said to taste good. This species grows very slowly. The Clown Loach's colors may fade when frightened, acclimating to a new tank, or ill. Its colors naturally fade with age. Difficulty of care: 5. The Clown Loach requires regular partial water changes to thrive and is susceptible disease. Live foods are required by this Loach. Do not keep the Clown Loach in small tanks. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach The poor fellow died a couple of hours ago, but I'm concerned about his tankmate, althought not showing anything weird other than the reddish gills. Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 I was planning on a 25% PWC today or tomorrow anyway. There were no red steakings in the fins of the dead loach, I uploaded a few clear photos, they will appear shortly when a moderator approves them "I thought you were a moderator yourself (?)". You'll see the red spots in the lower head and anal areas, there's a red line starting from the anus and going about 1/5" inside the body. As for the medications, I couldn't find Oxytetracycline, but can get Erythromycin. Should I now hospitalize the other clown loach and treat with Erythromycin? its gills are now less red in color, more like pink, still not swollen. Thanks for your help Noura . ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Noura, Do you see any red streaking in the fins? What are your water parameters? Without being able to see the fish, your description sounds as though these fish may have a hemorrhagic septicemia condition, that would induce a red anal area (especially if this area is now swollen), as well as bloody red spotting under the skin. This is caused by poor water conditions that are high in ammonia or nitrite, or even in situations of much higher nitrate. If this is of a viral origin, there is no know cure for it, however it is often a bacterial issue caused by any number of different aeromonas sp. bacteria. As the manifestation of this condition is virtually the same in either case, it's prudent to proceed with a treatment. I know your sources for antibiotics are limited, but hopefully you're able to locate one of the more basic bacticides. ONLY AFTER performing sufficient PWC's so as to reduce your waste build-ups, administer either Erythromycin or Tetracycle (Note: use Oxytetracycline if your pH is above 7.5), as per directions on the container -- usually, 1 tablet or capsule per 10 gallons). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47096	From: Noura	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

Hi Deb, What were you using before the two SHO 15w lights? ----- Original Message ----- From: Debra Melton To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants Hi Noura: I have a 20 gallon tall tank that had issues with green water and algae until I switched to 15 watt Daylight SHO lights. Now with 2 SHO's in the plants are growing like weeds without any algae problems at all. This same tank went through the brown diatoms when it was first set up but again it cleared up with the SHO lights. Deb OS, MS 2010/3/6 Noura <n-taweel@...> > Thanks for the tip, Lainey. Is Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants > > > Noura - > > Anubias are notorious for growing brown and green algae when NOT in > shade. I have some in shade with no algae, but those in light are > always covered. > > What works for me is to pull them out every ten days to two weeks and > soak them in a solution of water with 3% hydrogen peroxide in it. I > use 4ml HP per gallon of water, and soak for several hours. Somehow > that seems to kill the algae and keep it under control. Easier would > be if I would simply put them all in the shade! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((؛> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<؛((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Debra L. Melton, Network Director Saints 2010 Superbowl Champions! Geaux Saints!!! To be part of our community response to homelessness - Click here: http://www.oslbihn org and donate $50, $150, $250 and you can help homeless families with children staying at Rebekah's House with food, shelter, and case management services aimed at getting the families into permanent housing. Ocean Springs - Long Beach Interfaith Hospitality Network PO Box 8562 | Biloxi, MS 39535 | 228-388-3061 Voice Mail 228-760-2981 Cell Phone [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47097	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/6/2010
Subject: Re: Clown Loach

You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 12:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Hi Lenny, Yes, everytime i posted my aquarium water and baseline water parameters, there were such high levels of hardness and pH. I don't know much about how far a fish can go in acclimating to our water, but fish bought from our LFSs do thrive in this water somehow, even Angelfish and soft water fish. I had Clown Loaches for more than two years, and this is the first time that I lost one of this species, even the first time that one of them gets sick. I usually trade them at the fish store when they grow to about 3"-4" long , and get baby ones instead, I've done that twice , trading 3 loaches each time. So maybe they did acclimate to our water hardness? As for the ammonia.. I have no access to a test kit or instant indicators at the moment, unfortunatly. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 6:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Has your water always been so hard and high pH? I don't recall seeing these kinds of numbers from you in the past. With such high pH water, you ABSOLUTELY need an ammonia test or better yet, one of the Seachem Ammonia Alert monitors in each of your tanks since even a very low level of ammonia becomes toxic at such a high pH. Next, if this is your normal baseline water parameters, you need to be more discerning about which kind of fish that you keep and ONLY keep fish that prefer your water parameters. This could be a reason for many of your fish health problems... trying to keep fish that simply cannot tolerate such hard water and high pH levels. Plant choices also need to be more thought out since you have a limited choice of plants that do OK with your water parameters. While many fish and plants can acclimate to a broad range of water parameters, that doesn't mean they can acclimate to the extremes of water parameters that you are showing right now. Clown loaches do not belong in such hard and high pH water, preferring a low to neutral pH. They should also be kept in a much larger tank. Even the Mongabay profile/care sheet suggests at least a 36", 35-45 gallon tank as a minimum starting tank for smaller species. My suggestion is at least a 6' long 100G+ tank for the minimum of three fish but five is recommended. I have included the Mongabay link and text below my sig in case you can't open the link. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Clown Loach, Tiger Loach, Clown Botia Botia macracanthus | Pictures Synonyms: Cobitis macracanthus Physical description: Moderately elongated and laterally compressed, the Clown Loach has an arched back. It has a straight body profile, a large head, and a mouth that faces downward. Four pairs of barbels surround its mouth. The Clown Loach has a small spine by its eyes, that often gets entangled in net mesh. The body coloration is orange, but paler at times when weak or frightened. Three broad, transverse black bands. The first, runs through the eye; the second starts in front of the dorsal fin and runs down to the belly; the third begins on the dorsal fin and extends to the anal fin. The caudal, pectoral, and anal fins are all red in color. Size/Length: To 20" (51 cm) in nature, usually not more than 12" (30 cm) in captivity. Similar species: None S: bottom; middle Habitat: Inhabits both flowing and still parts of rivers and lakes in Southeast Asia; Sumatra, Borneo, and Indonesia. Aquarium: A 36" (90 cm) or 35-45 gallon (132-170 L) tank is sufficient for small fish. When these fish reach 5" (13 cm), they should be moved to a considerably larger tank measuring at least 48" (122 cm). Provide numerous hiding places with caves, driftwood, and roots. A fine gravel bottom is needed for this fish burrows. The tank should be well-planted and have muted lighting. Water chemistry: pH 5-7.5 (7.0); 5-15 dH (8); 75-86°F (24-30°C) Social behavior: A good community fish to combine with medium to large sized species. The Clown Loach should be kept in schools of five or more fish as smaller groups do poorly. Clown Loaches are nocturnal and shy when first introduced, but soon become friendly towards their owner. Suggested companions: Cichlasomines , Trichogaster, Barbus, Loricarids. FOOD: Tablets; live; worms, snails, crustaceans, insect larvae; occasionally algae. SEX: The female is larger and has a thinner tail. Mature males have a more arched back and a wider tail spread. Breeding techniques: Not bred in captivity; most likely because they have probably never reached sexual maturity in an aquarium. In nature, the Clown Loach spawns during the rainy season in foaming, fast-flowing streams, spring fed creeks, and rivers. The fry move down to slower moving and estuaries of the same rivers, to grow up. Rumors of spawnings in captivity have not been proven. In Southeast Asian fish farms, some have claimed success by using hormone injections. Breeding potential: 10. No details about successful spawnings in an aquarium have been substantiated. Remarks: This fish makes clicking noises when frightened or trying to scare off other fish. The Clown Loach is sensitive to chemicals in the water and some medications. The Clown Loach is eaten in the countries where they come from and are said to taste good. This species grows very slowly. The Clown Loach's colors may fade when frightened, acclimating to a new tank, or ill. Its colors naturally fade with age. Difficulty of care: 5. The Clown Loach requires regular partial water changes to thrive and is susceptible disease. Live foods are required by this Loach. Do not keep the Clown Loach in small tanks. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:38 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach The poor fellow died a couple of hours ago, but I'm concerned about his tankmate, althought not showing anything weird other than the reddish gills. Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 I was planning on a 25% PWC today or tomorrow anyway. There were no red steakings in the fins of the dead loach, I uploaded a few clear photos, they will appear shortly when a moderator approves them "I thought you were a moderator yourself (?)". You'll see the red spots in the lower head and anal areas, there's a red line starting from the anus and going about 1/5" inside the body. As for the medications, I couldn't find Oxytetracycline, but can get Erythromycin. Should I now hospitalize the other clown loach and treat with Erythromycin? its gills are now less red in color, more like pink, still not swollen. Thanks for your help Noura . ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach Noura, Do you see any red streaking in the fins? What are your water parameters? Without being able to see the fish, your description sounds as though these fish may have a hemorrhagic septicemia condition, that would induce a red anal area (especially if this area is now swollen), as well as bloody red spotting under the skin. This is caused by poor water conditions that are high in ammonia or nitrite, or even in situations of much higher nitrate. If this is of a viral origin, there is no know cure for it, however it is often a bacterial issue caused by any number of different aeromonas sp. bacteria. As the manifestation of this condition is virtually the same in either case, it's prudent to proceed with a treatment. I know your sources for antibiotics are limited, but hopefully you're able to locate one of the more basic bacticides. ONLY AFTER performing sufficient PWC's so as to reduce your waste build-ups, administer either Erythromycin or Tetracycle (Note: use Oxytetracycline if your pH is above 7.5), as per directions on the container -- usually, 1 tablet or capsule per 10 gallons). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47098	From: melindas	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Hello!

Hi guys! My name is Melinda and I have 3 ACFs and some fish. I'm planning on getting some firebelly toads today or tomorrow but I don't know if the sand I put in their tank (sand for marine tanks) is ok. Does anyone know?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47099	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello!

I've never kept them, but over the years, from reading other threads in many different forums, I have these three sites in my Favorites folder as good resources. Remember, when sites give conflicting information, especially about required tank size, always go with the biggest tank suggested. http://www.amphibian.co.uk/bombina.html http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/firebelliedtoad.html http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Bombina_orie ntalis.html OR http://tinyurl.com/yzdtbgb First, you should make sure of the scientific name of what you are about to buy as there are several species that have "Fire Bellied Toad" as part of their common names and each of them have different needs. Your tank should be a Paludarium (combination land and water). Were you planning on putting sand in the bottom of the water area or as the land area? As far as your reference to "Marine sand", there really isn't any such thing. There are dozens of types of sand and depending on the area of the ocean or coast where the sand is harvested, would determine the type of sand. Also, "Marine" connotes saltwater so you wouldn't really want sand from a saltwater source since these toads are from freshwater habitats. When using sand in aquariums, it's a good idea for you to actually feel the sand and rub several different choices between your fingers and find the smoothest one you can find... especially if you are going to have soft bodied fish or critters that like to burrow in the sand. I'm not sure if these toads burrow or not but the above links should give you that information. I know most, if not all of these toads hibernate in the wild so I'm not sure how the home hobbyist could mimic the true environment that would allow the toads to hibernate but I would suspect that not hibernating would cause potential health or lifespan issues over the long term. I'm not sure if this theory is discussed in the above articles but it's something to consider. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello! Hi guys! My name is Melinda and I have 3 ACFs and some fish. I'm planning on getting some firebelly toads today or tomorrow but I don't know if the sand I put in their tank (sand for marine tanks) is ok. Does anyone know?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47100	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

Hello:    Fire-belly Toads (genus Bombina) are very susceptible to dessication so anything that was in a saltwater tank I would not use.  I have kept them on standard gravel and in a forest-type palludarium with a large water area shared with Tropical fish and Newts (That was kinda fun and I'll probably do that again).  No matter how you choose to keep them just remember that they really like to have some sort of dry land area to retire to.  They also require live foods (like crickets, mealworrms, fruit flies, and various aquatic worms like tubifex and bloodworms) and will not (at least none of mine did) take any pelleted or flake food unlike African Dwarf Underwater frogs (genus Hymenochirus), Af. Clawed Frogs (genus Xenopus), and Surinam Toads (genus Pipa) which all will sample pelleted of some flake foods.  the difference is that the latter three are all strictly aquatic frogs whereas Bombina is really only a semi-aquatic genus of frogs.  they are beautifully colored, however, and well worth the effort.  Once comfortable in their new homes the males will actually call at night and they have really cute little squeeky voices (not obnoxious like the White's Treefrogs that inhabit my writing room).  When Frankie gets to calling (usually around 11 P.M. and 10 A.M.) his raucous croaking definitely lets you know he's in the room.    One thing that works well with them is a planted tank that includes duckweed and lillies.  they love to perch on the lillies making escape into the water easy.  They can pop their eyes and nostrils out from under the cover of duckweed and be very hard to spot because their bright green dorsal blends right in.  The nice thing about aquariums, when they are floating on the water it's easy to see the bright red of their venter which derives their name.    They are great frogs with lots of personality that are actually fairly easy to keep once established.  I have kept numerous aquatic amphibians so if there are any questions just let em fly.  I hope this info helps.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47101	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: high fin banded shark

does anyone know a source to purchase a few high fin banded sharks? I would like to have 3 for my 180 gallon tank with the plan to transfer them into the outdoor pond when they are large enough. thanks betti [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47102	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

It hasn't been in a tank and is brand new from the pet store. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753224 ________________________________ From: john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 10:54:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" Hello: Fire-belly Toads (genus Bombina) are very susceptible to dessication so anything that was in a saltwater tank I would not use. I have kept them on standard gravel and in a forest-type palludarium with a large water area shared with Tropical fish and Newts (That was kinda fun and I'll probably do that again). No matter how you choose to keep them just remember that they really like to have some sort of dry land area to retire to. They also require live foods (like crickets, mealworrms, fruit flies, and various aquatic worms like tubifex and bloodworms) and will not (at least none of mine did) take any pelleted or flake food unlike African Dwarf Underwater frogs (genus Hymenochirus) , Af. Clawed Frogs (genus Xenopus), and Surinam Toads (genus Pipa) which all will sample pelleted of some flake foods. the difference is that the latter three are all strictly aquatic frogs whereas Bombina is really only a semi-aquatic genus of frogs. they are beautifully colored, however, and well worth the effort. Once comfortable in their new homes the males will actually call at night and they have really cute little squeeky voices (not obnoxious like the White's Treefrogs that inhabit my writing room). When Frankie gets to calling (usually around 11 P.M. and 10 A.M.) his raucous croaking definitely lets you know he's in the room. One thing that works well with them is a planted tank that includes duckweed and lillies. they love to perch on the lillies making escape into the water easy. They can pop their eyes and nostrils out from under the cover of duckweed and be very hard to spot because their bright green dorsal blends right in. The nice thing about aquariums, when they are floating on the water it's easy to see the bright red of their venter which derives their name. They are great frogs with lots of personality that are actually fairly easy to keep once established. I have kept numerous aquatic amphibians so if there are any questions just let em fly. I hope this info helps. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47103	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: high fin banded shark

Hello:    I knosw that here in florida they appear regularly in stores and most of the larger farms have them.  I would think you could order them from your local tropical Fish Store and they should be able to get them.  they may be seasonal  (I'm not sure).  If you can't find any just holler and i'll check with our local farm to see about availability (your store would have to order them though).    Have a Great Day!!!   Spawn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47104	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark

thanks. I saw one mail order place in CA. I will ask my local fish store though. thanks for the suggestion. betti ----- Original Message ----- From: john Lewis Date: Sunday, March 7, 2010 1:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] high fin banded shark To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Hello: > I knosw that here in florida they appear regularly in stores > and most of the larger farms have them. I would think you could > order them from your local tropical Fish Store and they should > be able to get them. they may be seasonal (I'm not sure). If > you can't find any just holler and i'll check with our local > farm to see about availability (your store would have to order > them though). > Have a Great Day!!! > Spawn > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47105	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

The only problem with it is that the sand is more alkaline based which is good for saltwater tanks in order to keep the ph high.  Frogs are not comfortable for the most part under higher ph condtions.  they prefer neutral to slightly acidic conditions.  I would shy away from the Carib Sea sand.  It's great for saltwater (I use it myself) but probably not the best choice for amphibians.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 1:29:15 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"   It hasn't been in a tank and is brand new from the pet store. http://www.petsmart .com/product/ index.jsp? productId= 2753224 ____________ _________ _________ __ From: john Lewis <creatureproductions @...> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 10:54:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" Hello: Fire-belly Toads (genus Bombina) are very susceptible to dessication so anything that was in a saltwater tank I would not use. I have kept them on standard gravel and in a forest-type palludarium with a large water area shared with Tropical fish and Newts (That was kinda fun and I'll probably do that again). No matter how you choose to keep them just remember that they really like to have some sort of dry land area to retire to. They also require live foods (like crickets, mealworrms, fruit flies, and various aquatic worms like tubifex and bloodworms) and will not (at least none of mine did) take any pelleted or flake food unlike African Dwarf Underwater frogs (genus Hymenochirus) , Af. Clawed Frogs (genus Xenopus), and Surinam Toads (genus Pipa) which all will sample pelleted of some flake foods. the difference is that the latter three are all strictly aquatic frogs whereas Bombina is really only a semi-aquatic genus of frogs. they are beautifully colored, however, and well worth the effort. Once comfortable in their new homes the males will actually call at night and they have really cute little squeeky voices (not obnoxious like the White's Treefrogs that inhabit my writing room). When Frankie gets to calling (usually around 11 P.M. and 10 A.M.) his raucous croaking definitely lets you know he's in the room. One thing that works well with them is a planted tank that includes duckweed and lillies. they love to perch on the lillies making escape into the water easy. They can pop their eyes and nostrils out from under the cover of duckweed and be very hard to spot because their bright green dorsal blends right in. The nice thing about aquariums, when they are floating on the water it's easy to see the bright red of their venter which derives their name. They are great frogs with lots of personality that are actually fairly easy to keep once established. I have kept numerous aquatic amphibians so if there are any questions just let em fly. I hope this info helps. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47106	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark

If they are available your local pet store can order them with a future order.    Good Luck!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: "betti@..." <betti@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 2:13:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] high fin banded shark   thanks. I saw one mail order place in CA. I will ask my local fish store though. thanks for the suggestion. betti ----- Original Message ----- From: john Lewis Date: Sunday, March 7, 2010 1:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] high fin banded shark To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Hello: > I knosw that here in florida they appear regularly in stores > and most of the larger farms have them. I would think you could > order them from your local tropical Fish Store and they should > be able to get them. they may be seasonal (I'm not sure). If > you can't find any just holler and i'll check with our local > farm to see about availability (your store would have to order > them though). > Have a Great Day!!! > Spawn > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47107	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

Ok I understand ^^ I'll work to take the sand out that's currently in there, but I just wanted to make sure it wont kill them on the spot. ________________________________ From: john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 12:30:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"   The only problem with it is that the sand is more alkaline based which is good for saltwater tanks in order to keep the ph high. Frogs are not comfortable for the most part under higher ph condtions. they prefer neutral to slightly acidic conditions. I would shy away from the Carib Sea sand. It's great for saltwater (I use it myself) but probably not the best choice for amphibians.   Have a Great Day!!!   John (aka, "Spawn") ____________ _________ _________ __ From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 1:29:15 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"  It hasn't been in a tank and is brand new from the pet store. http://www.petsmart .com/product/ index.jsp? productId= 2753224 ____________ _________ _________ __ From: john Lewis <creatureproduction s @...> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 10:54:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" Hello: Fire-belly Toads (genus Bombina) are very susceptible to dessication so anything that was in a saltwater tank I would not use. I have kept them on standard gravel and in a forest-type palludarium with a large water area shared with Tropical fish and Newts (That was kinda fun and I'll probably do that again). No matter how you choose to keep them just remember that they really like to have some sort of dry land area to retire to. They also require live foods (like crickets, mealworrms, fruit flies, and various aquatic worms like tubifex and bloodworms) and will not (at least none of mine did) take any pelleted or flake food unlike African Dwarf Underwater frogs (genus Hymenochirus) , Af. Clawed Frogs (genus Xenopus), and Surinam Toads (genus Pipa) which all will sample pelleted of some flake foods. the difference is that the latter three are all strictly aquatic frogs whereas Bombina is really only a semi-aquatic genus of frogs. they are beautifully colored, however, and well worth the effort. Once comfortable in their new homes the males will actually call at night and they have really cute little squeeky voices (not obnoxious like the White's Treefrogs that inhabit my writing room). When Frankie gets to calling (usually around 11 P.M. and 10 A.M.) his raucous croaking definitely lets you know he's in the room. One thing that works well with them is a planted tank that includes duckweed and lillies. they love to perch on the lillies making escape into the water easy. They can pop their eyes and nostrils out from under the cover of duckweed and be very hard to spot because their bright green dorsal blends right in. The nice thing about aquariums, when they are floating on the water it's easy to see the bright red of their venter which derives their name. They are great frogs with lots of personality that are actually fairly easy to keep once established. I have kept numerous aquatic amphibians so if there are any questions just let em fly. I hope this info helps. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark

It seems there was a member in this group... or possibly one of the pond/goldfish/koi groups that I belong to that was trying to get rid of some recently since they get so large. I hope you have a BIG pond. Hopefully they'll see your message and reply. You could also go to the group's home page and do a search of the Messages to see what comes up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of betti@... Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] high fin banded shark does anyone know a source to purchase a few high fin banded sharks? I would like to have 3 for my 180 gallon tank with the plan to transfer them into the outdoor pond when they are large enough. thanks betti

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47109	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark

Segrest Farms sells them. http://www.segrestfarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.search Catalog Search Results: 1 - 6 of 6 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- SKU Common Name Scientific Name 1 36207 SHARK CHINESE HIFIN JBO Myxocyprinus asiaticus asiaticus 2 36205 SHARK CHINESE HIFIN LRG Myxocyprinus asiaticus asiaticus 3 36204 SHARK CHINESE HIFIN M/L Myxocyprinus asiaticus asiaticus 4 36203 SHARK CHINESE HIFIN MED Myxocyprinus asiaticus asiaticus 5 36201 SHARK CHINESE HIFIN REG Myxocyprinus asiaticus asiaticus 6 36200 SHARK CHINESE HIFIN SML Myxocyprinus asiaticus Go to their Locate A Pet Shop page to see if a store in your area already deals with Segrest and if they do, they can just order some with their next order so you won't get charged any large shipping fees. http://www.segrestfarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=petshop.locator Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of betti@... Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 1:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] high fin banded shark thanks. I saw one mail order place in CA. I will ask my local fish store though. thanks for the suggestion. betti ----- Original Message ----- From: john Lewis Date: Sunday, March 7, 2010 1:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] high fin banded shark To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Hello: > I knosw that here in florida they appear regularly in stores and > most of the larger farms have them. I would think you could order > them from your local tropical Fish Store and they should be able to > get them. they may be seasonal (I'm not sure). If you can't find > any just holler and i'll check with our local farm to see about > availability (your store would have to order them though). > Have a Great Day!!! > Spawn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

Not all sands will affect the pH. It depends on the type. Sands that are rich in crushed coral will leach but silica sands will not. You still have to be worried about the sand being too rough on soft bodied critters though. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melinda spicer Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 1:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" Ok I understand ^^ I'll work to take the sand out that's currently in there, but I just wanted to make sure it wont kill them on the spot. ________________________________ From: john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 12:30:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"   The only problem with it is that the sand is more alkaline based which is good for saltwater tanks in order to keep the ph high. Frogs are not comfortable for the most part under higher ph condtions. they prefer neutral to slightly acidic conditions. I would shy away from the Carib Sea sand. It's great for saltwater (I use it myself) but probably not the best choice for amphibians.   Have a Great Day!!!   John (aka, "Spawn") ____________ _________ _________ __ From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 1:29:15 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"  It hasn't been in a tank and is brand new from the pet store. http://www.petsmart .com/product/ index.jsp? productId= 2753224 ____________ _________ _________ __ From: john Lewis <creatureproduction s @...> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 10:54:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" Hello: Fire-belly Toads (genus Bombina) are very susceptible to dessication so anything that was in a saltwater tank I would not use. I have kept them on standard gravel and in a forest-type palludarium with a large water area shared with Tropical fish and Newts (That was kinda fun and I'll probably do that again). No matter how you choose to keep them just remember that they really like to have some sort of dry land area to retire to. They also require live foods (like crickets, mealworrms, fruit flies, and various aquatic worms like tubifex and bloodworms) and will not (at least none of mine did) take any pelleted or flake food unlike African Dwarf Underwater frogs (genus Hymenochirus) , Af. Clawed Frogs (genus Xenopus), and Surinam Toads (genus Pipa) which all will sample pelleted of some flake foods. the difference is that the latter three are all strictly aquatic frogs whereas Bombina is really only a semi-aquatic genus of frogs. they are beautifully colored, however, and well worth the effort. Once comfortable in their new homes the males will actually call at night and they have really cute little squeeky voices (not obnoxious like the White's Treefrogs that inhabit my writing room). When Frankie gets to calling (usually around 11 P.M. and 10 A.M.) his raucous croaking definitely lets you know he's in the room. One thing that works well with them is a planted tank that includes duckweed and lillies. they love to perch on the lillies making escape into the water easy. They can pop their eyes and nostrils out from under the cover of duckweed and be very hard to spot because their bright green dorsal blends right in. The nice thing about aquariums, when they are floating on the water it's easy to see the bright red of their venter which derives their name. They are great frogs with lots of personality that are actually fairly easy to keep once established. I have kept numerous aquatic amphibians so if there are any questions just let em fly. I hope this info helps. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn")

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47111	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Help with missing fish

I have an enormous female guppy that John calls the Great White Shark. She is in a tank with other grass guppies plus a few dwarf cory catfish. No other fish. Today I can't find her, and I have been looking for two hours. My question is, do I need to break down the tank which contains probably fifty plants? I have thrashed through all the plants with my hand and I can't feel her. There are no rocks or driftwood she could be under. I have checked all around the floor with a flashlight. She's just too huge to not be somewhere! Can anyone speculate as to what could have happened? If she's in the tank dead and I don't find her will she cause a terrible pollution spike? Is it realistic that the other guppies could have completely eaten her corpse? I thought I saw her yesterday but I could have been mistaken. Thanks for help, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47112	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

Hello Melinda:    It probably wouldn't but it might be safer if you kept them in something until the change is made.  They are small animals and absorb everything through their skin.    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 2:44:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"   Ok I understand ^^ I'll work to take the sand out that's currently in there, but I just wanted to make sure it wont kill them on the spot. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: john Lewis <creatureproductions @...> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 12:30:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"   The only problem with it is that the sand is more alkaline based which is good for saltwater tanks in order to keep the ph high. Frogs are not comfortable for the most part under higher ph condtions. they prefer neutral to slightly acidic conditions. I would shy away from the Carib Sea sand. It's great for saltwater (I use it myself) but probably not the best choice for amphibians.   Have a Great Day!!!   John (aka, "Spawn") ____________ _________ _________ __ From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@ yahoo.com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 1:29:15 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"  It hasn't been in a tank and is brand new from the pet store. http://www.petsmart .com/product/ index.jsp? productId= 2753224 ____________ _________ _________ __ From: john Lewis <creatureproduction s @...> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 10:54:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" Hello: Fire-belly Toads (genus Bombina) are very susceptible to dessication so anything that was in a saltwater tank I would not use. I have kept them on standard gravel and in a forest-type palludarium with a large water area shared with Tropical fish and Newts (That was kinda fun and I'll probably do that again). No matter how you choose to keep them just remember that they really like to have some sort of dry land area to retire to. They also require live foods (like crickets, mealworrms, fruit flies, and various aquatic worms like tubifex and bloodworms) and will not (at least none of mine did) take any pelleted or flake food unlike African Dwarf Underwater frogs (genus Hymenochirus) , Af. Clawed Frogs (genus Xenopus), and Surinam Toads (genus Pipa) which all will sample pelleted of some flake foods. the difference is that the latter three are all strictly aquatic frogs whereas Bombina is really only a semi-aquatic genus of frogs. they are beautifully colored, however, and well worth the effort. Once comfortable in their new homes the males will actually call at night and they have really cute little squeeky voices (not obnoxious like the White's Treefrogs that inhabit my writing room). When Frankie gets to calling (usually around 11 P.M. and 10 A.M.) his raucous croaking definitely lets you know he's in the room. One thing that works well with them is a planted tank that includes duckweed and lillies. they love to perch on the lillies making escape into the water easy. They can pop their eyes and nostrils out from under the cover of duckweed and be very hard to spot because their bright green dorsal blends right in. The nice thing about aquariums, when they are floating on the water it's easy to see the bright red of their venter which derives their name. They are great frogs with lots of personality that are actually fairly easy to keep once established. I have kept numerous aquatic amphibians so if there are any questions just let em fly. I hope this info helps. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47113	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

Are there any types of snails in that tank or only fish? Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I have an enormous female guppy that John calls the Great White > Shark. She is in a tank with other grass guppies plus a few dwarf > cory catfish. No other fish. > > Today I can't find her, and I have been looking for two hours. > > My question is, do I need to break down the tank which contains > probably fifty plants? I have thrashed through all the plants with my > hand and I can't feel her. There are no rocks or driftwood she could > be under. I have checked all around the floor with a flashlight. > > She's just too huge to not be somewhere! > > Can anyone speculate as to what could have happened? > > If she's in the tank dead and I don't find her will she cause a > terrible pollution spike? > > Is it realistic that the other guppies could have completely eaten > her corpse? I thought I saw her yesterday but I could have been > mistaken. > > Thanks for help, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47114	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Badis Badis

_____ Hi Lenny, Steve and Group I just added some BadidBadis fish to my tank that currently has Featherfins and Cories in it. I'm wondering what I should feed them. Some sources say that they only eat live food while others recommend flake and frozen. Any suggestions as to what they will eat? I also put in some Amano shrimps but oddly enough, I can't seem to see any of them anymore. Found a couple of dead ones, about 6 of 40 but have no idea if they are still alive .I know that they can't just disappear but unless the Cories ate them, I know that they were too big to fit in the Featherfins mouth. Any ideas as to where they are or were? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47115	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

Depending on how many fish you have and their sizes, a dead fish could be consumed in a day or two without too much of a problem. I'd cut out feeding for a day just to make sure. Also, do filter maintenance http://tinyurl.com/Filter-Maintenance since, often, a dead fish will end up stuck to the filter intake strainer where the other fish will snack on it and pieces might get sucked into the filter... or if you do not have strainers on your intake tubes, the entire fish could be sucked up into that tube. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with missing fish I have an enormous female guppy that John calls the Great White Shark. She is in a tank with other grass guppies plus a few dwarf cory catfish. No other fish. Today I can't find her, and I have been looking for two hours. My question is, do I need to break down the tank which contains probably fifty plants? I have thrashed through all the plants with my hand and I can't feel her. There are no rocks or driftwood she could be under. I have checked all around the floor with a flashlight. She's just too huge to not be somewhere! Can anyone speculate as to what could have happened? If she's in the tank dead and I don't find her will she cause a terrible pollution spike? Is it realistic that the other guppies could have completely eaten her corpse? I thought I saw her yesterday but I could have been mistaken. Thanks for help, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47116	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

There are three red cherry shrimp plus the dwarf cories plus a school of guppies, and some very small pond snails. But I would have noticed if there was a corpse congregation because I tend to do a head count twice a day. I could have missed checking for the GWS for a few days and just figured she was there, but I always count the shrimp and cories. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 7, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Are there any types of snails in that tank or only fish? > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I have an enormous female guppy that John calls the Great White >> Shark. She is in a tank with other grass guppies plus a few dwarf >> cory catfish. No other fish. >> >> Today I can't find her, and I have been looking for two hours. >> >> My question is, do I need to break down the tank which contains >> probably fifty plants? I have thrashed through all the plants with my >> hand and I can't feel her. There are no rocks or driftwood she could >> be under. I have checked all around the floor with a flashlight. >> >> She's just too huge to not be somewhere! >> >> Can anyone speculate as to what could have happened? >> >> If she's in the tank dead and I don't find her will she cause a >> terrible pollution spike? >> >> Is it realistic that the other guppies could have completely eaten >> her corpse? I thought I saw her yesterday but I could have been >> mistaken. >> >> Thanks for help, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47117	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms

I sort of recently, a few weeks, added a new goldfish to my others. It has been with my other 4 very cheap feeder, but absolutely loved goldfish. I noticed something hanging out of it's rear a few days ago. I researched and believe it to be nematoda. Since then I have given it regular salt baths, two on two different days. I used 4 tsp of table salt to one gallon of water as per About.com. I was not able to get out to get aquarium salt at the store. I am aware that some are released during the salt baths. I had put the fish back in the tank with the others. However, I gave it it's 3rd bath today for about 20 minutes and have isolated it a fish bowl for now. 1) How do I save this fish? Can it be returned. 2) How do I know if my other fish are infected. What should I do? 3) My darn cat sometimes likes to drink the goldfish water. I am trying ways to stop her. Can she be infected? Thanks for your help. Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47118	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Badis Badis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47119	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Badis Badis

Badis badis prefer live food, there's no two ways about that. As you had 40 of them in the tank, and as they may have nearly been small enough to have been eaten by the Featherfins (Congo Tetras?), I may assume they're still moderately small. At a juvenile size, these fish will readily eat newly hatched BBS (baby brine shrimp). If they are larger, they may take a good quality (Hikari) frozen blood worms. Don't expect them to take flake food though. Live black worms would be greedily accepted by the larger Badis, although depending upon the size of these worms they may need to be at least partially chopped to a suitable size. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47120	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Badis Badis

Shrimp will often molt when first put into a new tank so you may find empty shells that some people mistake for dead shrimp. While molting, they will try to hide as best as possible since they are far more vulnerable to predation when they lose their old hard shell until the new shell hardens up. In fact, it's a good idea to create a few little shrimp caves that just they can get into so they can hide in the cave while molting. When they are in the un-protected stage, it would be easy for even small fish to pick away at them until they are gone. As far as the Badis badis, here are a few good profiles/care sheets with food recommendations. The FishBase profile has a More Information section where you can click on links for things like Diet, Food Items, etc. and this info is based on actual dissection and inspection of the fish's stomach in wild caught specimens. The Mongabay profile will probably have the same info in their "Food" section, as well as lots of other good care info. http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Speciessummary.php?id=11016 http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Badis_badis.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Badis Badis _____ Hi Lenny, Steve and Group I just added some BadidBadis fish to my tank that currently has Featherfins and Cories in it. I'm wondering what I should feed them. Some sources say that they only eat live food while others recommend flake and frozen. Any suggestions as to what they will eat? I also put in some Amano shrimps but oddly enough, I can't seem to see any of them anymore. Found a couple of dead ones, about 6 of 40 but have no idea if they are still alive .I know that they can't just disappear but unless the Cories ate them, I know that they were too big to fit in the Featherfins mouth. Any ideas as to where they are or were? Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms

Yes, your other fish could be infested so you need to keep an eye on them. If you can get some PraziPro from Hikari, you could safely treat your entire tank and that will kill off internal worms, flukes, etc. Buy the smallest bottle you can since you only need a little bit to treat a lot of water. It's the same medicine they use for de-worming cats and dogs. It's very safe and it's one of the only medications that I use for pre-treating ALL of my newly purchased fish while they are in quarantine... which is something all fish keepers should do (quarantine) any newly purchased fish for several weeks before adding them to our main tanks. I'm not sure how effective a salt bath is going to be on internal worms, although adding salt to the main tank at 1 teaspoon per gallon (slowly raised to that level in 1/3rd doses over 24 hours) will help to kill off any free swimming worms that might get pooped out... but if you get the PraziPro, the salt would not be needed and the PraziPro is much easier on the fish than salt. You were wise to NOT buy aquarium salt since it's just a BIG rip-off. It's the same thing as plain table salt... NaCl... Sodium Chloride. It's a shame that pet stores even sell the stuff to customers when they could have boxes of Kosher salt, Morton's or even Generic on the shelf next to the so-called Aquarium Salt to inform their customers of this rip-off.. or just not even carry the so-called Aquarium Salt products. I'm not sure if worms that live in goldfish are transferrable to your cat. Most pathogens from one Family in the animal kingdom usually are not a pathogen to another Family but there are some that cross over. It would depend on the exact species of worm but you may want to check with your vet about doing a preventive worm treatment. You should also keep a cover on your tank to prevent the fish from drinking out of the tank in the future, for it's own safety and to minimize stress on the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms I sort of recently, a few weeks, added a new goldfish to my others. It has been with my other 4 very cheap feeder, but absolutely loved goldfish. I noticed something hanging out of it's rear a few days ago. I researched and believe it to be nematoda. Since then I have given it regular salt baths, two on two different days. I used 4 tsp of table salt to one gallon of water as per About.com. I was not able to get out to get aquarium salt at the store. I am aware that some are released during the salt baths. I had put the fish back in the tank with the others. However, I gave it it's 3rd bath today for about 20 minutes and have isolated it a fish bowl for now. 1) How do I save this fish? Can it be returned. 2) How do I know if my other fish are infected. What should I do? 3) My darn cat sometimes likes to drink the goldfish water. I am trying ways to stop her. Can she be infected? Thanks for your help. Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47122	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

I actually haven't bought them yet, but I took out 95% of the sand and replaced it with gravel and am planning on buying them tomorrow afternoon. On Sun Mar 7th, 2010 5:06 PM MST john Lewis wrote: >     Hello Melinda: >   It probably wouldn't but it might be safer if you kept them in something until the change is made.  They are small animals and absorb everything through their skin. >   John (aka, "Spawn") > > > > >________________________________ >From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 2:44:03 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" > >  >Ok I understand ^^ I'll work to take the sand out that's currently in there, but I just wanted to make sure it wont kill them on the spot. > >____________ _________ _________ __ >From: john Lewis <creatureproductions @...> >To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 12:30:19 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" > >  The only problem with it is that the sand is more alkaline based which is good for saltwater tanks in order to keep the ph high. Frogs are not comfortable for the most part under higher ph condtions. they prefer neutral to slightly acidic conditions. I would shy away from the Carib Sea sand. It's great for saltwater (I use it myself) but probably not the best choice for amphibians. >  Have a Great Day!!! >  John (aka, "Spawn") > >____________ _________ _________ __ >From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@ yahoo.com> >To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 1:29:15 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" > > >It hasn't been in a tank and is brand new from the pet store. > >http://www.petsmart .com/product/ index.jsp? productId= 2753224 > >____________ _________ _________ __ >From: john Lewis <creatureproduction s @...> >To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 10:54:37 AM >Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" > >Hello: >Fire-belly Toads (genus Bombina) are very susceptible to dessication so anything that was in a saltwater tank I would not use. I have kept them on standard gravel and in a forest-type palludarium with a large water area shared with Tropical fish and Newts (That was kinda fun and I'll probably do that again). No matter how you choose to keep them just remember that they really like to have some sort of dry land area to retire to. They also require live foods (like crickets, mealworrms, fruit flies, and various aquatic worms like tubifex and bloodworms) and will not (at least none of mine did) take any pelleted or flake food unlike African Dwarf Underwater frogs (genus Hymenochirus) , Af. Clawed Frogs (genus Xenopus), and Surinam Toads (genus Pipa) which all will sample pelleted of some flake foods. the difference is that the latter three are all strictly aquatic frogs whereas Bombina is really only a semi-aquatic genus of frogs. they are >beautifully colored, however, and well worth the effort. Once comfortable in their new homes the males will actually call at night and they have really cute little squeeky voices (not obnoxious like the White's Treefrogs that inhabit my writing room). When Frankie gets to calling (usually around 11 P.M. and 10 A.M.) his raucous croaking definitely lets you know he's in the room. >One thing that works well with them is a planted tank that includes duckweed and lillies. they love to perch on the lillies making escape into the water easy. They can pop their eyes and nostrils out from under the cover of duckweed and be very hard to spot because their bright green dorsal blends right in. The nice thing about aquariums, when they are floating on the water it's easy to see the bright red of their venter which derives their name. >They are great frogs with lots of personality that are actually fairly easy to keep once established. I have kept numerous aquatic amphibians so if there are any questions just let em fly. I hope this info helps. >Have a Great Day!!! >John (aka, "Spawn") > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47123	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

Lainey, Jumpers can disappear. There are stories out there where fish have jumped not to be found for days, weeks, months, and, even years after the fact. Also, as large as your female may have been, as she becomes desiccated, assuming a jump, the size of the body becomes much less. and, therefore, harder to spot. If she had died in the tank, the corys could have eaten enough of the body to make it hard to find in the tank. I would tend to think the other guppies did not partake simply because the structure of their mouth makes it difficult for them to eat except at the surface. Not impossible, but difficult. The old open siphon trick could have led to the body becoming one with the filter. By this time, you probably would not recognize a body of a fish that size in the filter, even with a close inspection of the filter and media in the filter. You do not need to worry about ammonia from the description of your tank given. The plants, along with the established filter should be able to handle it without a blip. I know it is tough to lose a fish and not be able to find a body, but it inevitably happens to a certain percentage of fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with missing fish I have an enormous female guppy that John calls the Great White Shark. She is in a tank with other grass guppies plus a few dwarf cory catfish. No other fish. Today I can't find her, and I have been looking for two hours. My question is, do I need to break down the tank which contains probably fifty plants? I have thrashed through all the plants with my hand and I can't feel her. There are no rocks or driftwood she could be under. I have checked all around the floor with a flashlight. She's just too huge to not be somewhere! Can anyone speculate as to what could have happened? If she's in the tank dead and I don't find her will she cause a terrible pollution spike? Is it realistic that the other guppies could have completely eaten her corpse? I thought I saw her yesterday but I could have been mistaken. Thanks for help, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47124	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Badis Badis

Badis (Dario) generally do best in a species tank that is heavily planted. While they may survive in their current home, they will not thrive. They do need live food to do well as well. While some may adapt to a prepared food diet, the do seem to do better with live foods. The motion created by the live foods is a trigger for them to eat. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Badis Badis _____ Hi Lenny, Steve and Group I just added some BadidBadis fish to my tank that currently has Featherfins and Cories in it. I'm wondering what I should feed them. Some sources say that they only eat live food while others recommend flake and frozen. Any suggestions as to what they will eat? I also put in some Amano shrimps but oddly enough, I can't seem to see any of them anymore. Found a couple of dead ones, about 6 of 40 but have no idea if they are still alive .I know that they can't just disappear but unless the Cories ate them, I know that they were too big to fit in the Featherfins mouth. Any ideas as to where they are or were? Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47125	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

This happened to me last Monday, I lost one of my bigish fish and would be impossible to not find the body in 29g tank. After a few hours of looking I kninda just said " I bet it's behind my tank" sure enough it was on the floor. It was pretty gross and freaked me out for some reason. On Sun Mar 7th, 2010 9:20 PM MST Steve Szabo wrote: >Lainey, > >Jumpers can disappear. There are stories out there where fish have jumped >not to be found for days, weeks, months, and, even years after the fact. >Also, as large as your female may have been, as she becomes desiccated, >assuming a jump, the size of the body becomes much less. and, therefore, >harder to spot. > >If she had died in the tank, the corys could have eaten enough of the body >to make it hard to find in the tank. I would tend to think the other guppies >did not partake simply because the structure of their mouth makes it >difficult for them to eat except at the surface. Not impossible, but >difficult. > >The old open siphon trick could have led to the body becoming one with the >filter. By this time, you probably would not recognize a body of a fish that >size in the filter, even with a close inspection of the filter and media in >the filter. > >You do not need to worry about ammonia from the description of your tank >given. The plants, along with the established filter should be able to >handle it without a blip. > >I know it is tough to lose a fish and not be able to find a body, but it >inevitably happens to a certain percentage of fish. > >\\Steve// > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:13 PM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with missing fish > >I have an enormous female guppy that John calls the Great White >Shark. She is in a tank with other grass guppies plus a few dwarf >cory catfish. No other fish. > >Today I can't find her, and I have been looking for two hours. > >My question is, do I need to break down the tank which contains >probably fifty plants? I have thrashed through all the plants with my >hand and I can't feel her. There are no rocks or driftwood she could >be under. I have checked all around the floor with a flashlight. > >She's just too huge to not be somewhere! > >Can anyone speculate as to what could have happened? > >If she's in the tank dead and I don't find her will she cause a >terrible pollution spike? > >Is it realistic that the other guppies could have completely eaten >her corpse? I thought I saw her yesterday but I could have been >mistaken. > >Thanks for help, > > >Lainey >http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47126	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

I guess I should start asking if a tank is covered whenever this question comes up... and it comes up often in various forums. I just presume folks keep their tanks covered as tightly as possible with cutouts for filters, hoses, etc. Yes, there's still a chance a fish could make it out through a cut-out but it's far less likely to happen. I've never had a fish jump out of one of my covered tanks.... not even when doing tank maintenance and the cover is off. I'm guessing they've learned, through reverse-Pavlovian training, that if they jump, they're not only NOT gonna get a treat but they're gonna end up with a headache when they hit the cover so they just don't do it any more. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melinda spicer Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:28 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Help with missing fish This happened to me last Monday, I lost one of my bigish fish and would be impossible to not find the body in 29g tank. After a few hours of looking I kninda just said " I bet it's behind my tank" sure enough it was on the floor. It was pretty gross and freaked me out for some reason. On Sun Mar 7th, 2010 9:20 PM MST Steve Szabo wrote: >Lainey, > >Jumpers can disappear. There are stories out there where fish have >jumped not to be found for days, weeks, months, and, even years after the fact. >Also, as large as your female may have been, as she becomes desiccated, >assuming a jump, the size of the body becomes much less. and, >therefore, harder to spot. > >If she had died in the tank, the corys could have eaten enough of the >body to make it hard to find in the tank. I would tend to think the >other guppies did not partake simply because the structure of their >mouth makes it difficult for them to eat except at the surface. Not >impossible, but difficult. > >The old open siphon trick could have led to the body becoming one with >the filter. By this time, you probably would not recognize a body of a >fish that size in the filter, even with a close inspection of the >filter and media in the filter. > >You do not need to worry about ammonia from the description of your >tank given. The plants, along with the established filter should be >able to handle it without a blip. > >I know it is tough to lose a fish and not be able to find a body, but >it inevitably happens to a certain percentage of fish. > >\\Steve// > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] >On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:13 PM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with missing fish > >I have an enormous female guppy that John calls the Great White Shark. >She is in a tank with other grass guppies plus a few dwarf cory >catfish. No other fish. > >Today I can't find her, and I have been looking for two hours. > >My question is, do I need to break down the tank which contains >probably fifty plants? I have thrashed through all the plants with my >hand and I can't feel her. There are no rocks or driftwood she could >be under. I have checked all around the floor with a flashlight. > >She's just too huge to not be somewhere! > >Can anyone speculate as to what could have happened? > >If she's in the tank dead and I don't find her will she cause a >terrible pollution spike? > >Is it realistic that the other guppies could have completely eaten her >corpse? I thought I saw her yesterday but I could have been mistaken. > >Thanks for help, > > >Lainey >http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47127	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/7/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

This happened to me last Monday, I lost one of my bigish fish and would be impossible to not find the body in 29g tank. After a few hours of looking I kninda just said " I bet it's behind my tank" sure enough it was on the floor. It was pretty gross and freaked me out for some reason. On Sun Mar 7th, 2010 9:20 PM MST Steve Szabo wrote: >Lainey, > >Jumpers can disappear. There are stories out there where fish have jumped >not to be found for days, weeks, months, and, even years after the fact. >Also, as large as your female may have been, as she becomes desiccated, >assuming a jump, the size of the body becomes much less. and, therefore, >harder to spot. > >If she had died in the tank, the corys could have eaten enough of the body >to make it hard to find in the tank. I would tend to think the other guppies >did not partake simply because the structure of their mouth makes it >difficult for them to eat except at the surface. Not impossible, but >difficult. > >The old open siphon trick could have led to the body becoming one with the >filter. By this time, you probably would not recognize a body of a fish that >size in the filter, even with a close inspection of the filter and media in >the filter. > >You do not need to worry about ammonia from the description of your tank >given. The plants, along with the established filter should be able to >handle it without a blip. > >I know it is tough to lose a fish and not be able to find a body, but it >inevitably happens to a certain percentage of fish. > >\\Steve// > > >-----Original Message----- >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:13 PM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] Help with missing fish > >I have an enormous female guppy that John calls the Great White >Shark. She is in a tank with other grass guppies plus a few dwarf >cory catfish. No other fish. > >Today I can't find her, and I have been looking for two hours. > >My question is, do I need to break down the tank which contains >probably fifty plants? I have thrashed through all the plants with my >hand and I can't feel her. There are no rocks or driftwood she could >be under. I have checked all around the floor with a flashlight. > >She's just too huge to not be somewhere! > >Can anyone speculate as to what could have happened? > >If she's in the tank dead and I don't find her will she cause a >terrible pollution spike? > >Is it realistic that the other guppies could have completely eaten >her corpse? I thought I saw her yesterday but I could have been >mistaken. > >Thanks for help, > > >Lainey >http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47128	From: Debra Melton	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Brownish plants

First the lights that came with the aquarium hood (I think they were about 15 watts), then 25 watt aquarium light bulbs, I even tried the dual lights (half blue, half pink (I think they were more for saltwater set-ups). Deb On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Hi Deb, > What were you using before the two SHO 15w lights? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Debra Melton > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:02 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants > > Hi Noura: > > I have a 20 gallon tall tank that had issues with green water and algae > until I switched to 15 watt Daylight SHO lights. Now with 2 SHO's in the > plants are growing like weeds without any algae problems at all. This same > tank went through the brown diatoms when it was first set up but again it > cleared up with the SHO lights. > > Deb > OS, MS > > 2010/3/6 Noura <n-taweel@... <n-taweel%40scs-net.org>> > > > Thanks for the tip, Lainey. Is Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...<lainealex%40earthlink.net> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Brownish plants > > > > > > Noura - > > > > Anubias are notorious for growing brown and green algae when NOT in > > shade. I have some in shade with no algae, but those in light are > > always covered. > > > > What works for me is to pull them out every ten days to two weeks and > > soak them in a solution of water with 3% hydrogen peroxide in it. I > > use 4ml HP per gallon of water, and soak for several hours. Somehow > > that seems to kill the algae and keep it under control. Easier would > > be if I would simply put them all in the shade! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((؛> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<؛((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > -- > Debra L. Melton, Network Director > Saints 2010 Superbowl Champions! > Geaux Saints!!! > > To be part of our community response to homelessness - Click here: > http://www.oslbihn org and donate $50, $150, $250 and you can help > homeless families with children staying at Rebekah's House with food, > shelter, and case management services aimed at getting the families into > permanent housing. > > Ocean Springs - Long Beach Interfaith Hospitality Network > PO Box 8562 | Biloxi, MS 39535 | 228-388-3061 Voice Mail > 228-760-2981 Cell Phone > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Debra L. Melton, Network Director Saints 2010 Superbowl Champions! Geaux Saints!!! To be part of our community response to homelessness - Click here: http://www.oslbihn org and donate $50, $150, $250 and you can help homeless families with children staying at Rebekah's House with food, shelter, and case management services aimed at getting the families into permanent housing. Ocean Springs - Long Beach Interfaith Hospitality Network PO Box 8562 | Biloxi, MS 39535 | 228-388-3061 Voice Mail 228-760-2981 Cell Phone [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47129	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

Hello Melinda:     Well, enjoy them.  Remember they do need a place to get out of the water or they will drown.  They're lots of fun.  I think you'll like them.    Any questions after you get them just ask.    Have a Great Week!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 8:43:22 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"   I actually haven't bought them yet, but I took out 95% of the sand and replaced it with gravel and am planning on buying them tomorrow afternoon. On Sun Mar 7th, 2010 5:06 PM MST john Lewis wrote: >     Hello Melinda: >   It probably wouldn't but it might be safer if you kept them in something until the change is made.  They are small animals and absorb everything through their skin. >   John (aka, "Spawn") > > > > >___________ _________ _________ ___ >From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@ yahoo.com> >To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 2:44:03 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" > >  >Ok I understand ^^ I'll work to take the sand out that's currently in there, but I just wanted to make sure it wont kill them on the spot. > >___________ _ _________ _________ __ >From: john Lewis <creatureproduction s @...> >To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 12:30:19 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" > >  The only problem with it is that the sand is more alkaline based which is good for saltwater tanks in order to keep the ph high. Frogs are not comfortable for the most part under higher ph condtions. they prefer neutral to slightly acidic conditions. I would shy away from the Carib Sea sand. It's great for saltwater (I use it myself) but probably not the best choice for amphibians. >  Have a Great Day!!! >  John (aka, "Spawn") > >___________ _ _________ _________ __ >From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@ yahoo.com> >To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 1:29:15 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" > > >It hasn't been in a tank and is brand new from the pet store. > >http://www.petsmart .com/product/ index.jsp? productId= 2753224 > >___________ _ _________ _________ __ >From: john Lewis <creatureproduction s @...> >To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com >Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 10:54:37 AM >Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads" > >Hello: >Fire-belly Toads (genus Bombina) are very susceptible to dessication so anything that was in a saltwater tank I would not use. I have kept them on standard gravel and in a forest-type palludarium with a large water area shared with Tropical fish and Newts (That was kinda fun and I'll probably do that again). No matter how you choose to keep them just remember that they really like to have some sort of dry land area to retire to. They also require live foods (like crickets, mealworrms, fruit flies, and various aquatic worms like tubifex and bloodworms) and will not (at least none of mine did) take any pelleted or flake food unlike African Dwarf Underwater frogs (genus Hymenochirus) , Af. Clawed Frogs (genus Xenopus), and Surinam Toads (genus Pipa) which all will sample pelleted of some flake foods. the difference is that the latter three are all strictly aquatic frogs whereas Bombina is really only a semi-aquatic genus of frogs. they are >beautifully colored, however, and well worth the effort. Once comfortable in their new homes the males will actually call at night and they have really cute little squeeky voices (not obnoxious like the White's Treefrogs that inhabit my writing room). When Frankie gets to calling (usually around 11 P.M. and 10 A.M.) his raucous croaking definitely lets you know he's in the room. >One thing that works well with them is a planted tank that includes duckweed and lillies. they love to perch on the lillies making escape into the water easy. They can pop their eyes and nostrils out from under the cover of duckweed and be very hard to spot because their bright green dorsal blends right in. The nice thing about aquariums, when they are floating on the water it's easy to see the bright red of their venter which derives their name. >They are great frogs with lots of personality that are actually fairly easy to keep once established. I have kept numerous aquatic amphibians so if there are any questions just let em fly. I hope this info helps. >Have a Great Day!!! >John (aka, "Spawn") > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47130	From: Noura	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47131	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47132	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Peat moss will slowly lower the pH of your water, but you have to be careful doing things like this (watch your water pH carefully so it doesn't go too low, and also your incoming water will be a much higher pH than the tank water, so you will have to do smaller PWC's). Driftwood will slightly lower the pH as it degrades (from what I've heard/read) but I'm not positive about that. Besides guppies there are some other livebearers that you could get, I believe swordtails like slightly higher pH, as well as Mollies and Platties. I can't name any other's off the top of my head (besides the one you already know, rift lake cichlids), will do some more looking around to see if there are any others that are good for community tanks. Amber Noura wrote: > > Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. > > Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do > well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for > sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert > aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your > minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my > tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. > just KIDDING! > > Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 > > Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the > fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something > that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say > to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than > the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know > you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if > BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. > I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no > different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't > driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a > percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G > doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that > was raised by the shells? > > I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so > bear with me please! > > and .. Thanks! > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not > staying > at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of > keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live > would be > the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. > While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not > usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even > living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for > fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years > http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans.> Yes, some fish will show negative > effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects > right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health > issues and a shortened lifespan. > > I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put > things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from > breathing > and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we > are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and > feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under > water > or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and > breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing > issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term > conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long > term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is > slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not > thrive > and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be > comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to > live in another type of environment. > > As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing > effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, > controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert > monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter > maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight > ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test > for with > our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH > levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites > explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in > more > detail. > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > > http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html> > > On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at > various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and > lower > water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same > ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% > (nearly > 200 times more toxic). > > This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. > > "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia > (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the > toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp > result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its > toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you > have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it > being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." > > I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff > from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since > they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try > to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html.> > These are > suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can > easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe > at all > times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do > not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into > effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are > fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l > (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I > suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where > otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely > affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies > also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as > good as > the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the > SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I > have a > blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia > alerts side > by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test > <http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test> > > Hope this helps. > > Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, > which I > believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider > moving > all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the > future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can > have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many > "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > > The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to > the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Current water parameters: > Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed > about > 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" > Nitrite: 0 > I don't have ammonia test kit. > GH: 10-16 > KH: 10-15 > pH: 8.4 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47133	From: Noura	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47134	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Per Diana over at aquaticplantcentral.com forums; Put a nylon stocking of peat moss in your filter. Small tank, a tablespoon or two. Medium size tank 1/4-1/2 cup. Larger tank a cup or more." If you want to make it into a tea you would just make hot water (boiling would work better), use that same nylon stocking trick with peat moss inside of it and soak it in the boiling water for at least several hours for it to soak into the water and make a brownish looking water. Overnight works better according to a lot of posts on that same forums. Here is the link to this same topic discussion in the forums and what other people had to say about it: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-making-peat-tea-help.html Amber Noura wrote: > > I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific > site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making > and using it? > > The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than > raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it > would > be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. > The RO > water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other > chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute > things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. > > Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release > tannins > which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make > Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat > Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. > > This fish database search site, > http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search > <http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search> OR > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec> > ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced > Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search > button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G > tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only > one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 > pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. > Putting > the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, > any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although > there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the > search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but > there > were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just > guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also > need > brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I > also > noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. > > If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four > pages of results. > > Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your > kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby > and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water > compatible for these fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. > > Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do > well in > a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, > but I'm > counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) > to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to > have only > African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. > Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! > > Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 > > Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the > fish to > suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be > added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 > level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 > pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH > by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as > easy, I would like to give it a try. > I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no > different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't > driftwood. BUT, > on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken > (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, > maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? > > I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so > bear with > me please! > > and .. Thanks! > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not > staying > at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of > keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would > be > the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. > While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not > usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even > living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for > fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years > http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans.> Yes, some fish will show negative > effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects > right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health > issues and a shortened lifespan. > > I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put > things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from > breathing > and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we > are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and > feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under > water > or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and > breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing > issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term > conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long > term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is > slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not > thrive > and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be > comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to > live in another type of environment. > > As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing > effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, > controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert > monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter > maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight > ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for > with > our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH > levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites > explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in > more > detail. > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > > http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html> > > On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at > various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and > lower > water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same > ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% > (nearly > 200 times more toxic). > > This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. > > "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia > (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the > toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp > result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its > toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you > have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it > being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." > > I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff > from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since > they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try > to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html.> > These are > suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can > easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at > all > times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do > not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into > effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are > fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l > (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I > suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where > otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely > affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies > also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good > as > the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the > SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have > a > blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts > side > by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test > <http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test> > > Hope this helps. > > Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which > I > believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider > moving > all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the > future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can > have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many > "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > > The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to > the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Current water parameters: > Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed > about > 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" > Nitrite: 0 > I don't have ammonia test kit. > GH: 10-16 > KH: 10-15 > pH: 8.4 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47135	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a couple of forum threads. http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4 af1b3490 OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki ng-peat-tea-help.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

That's fine in some situations but for a more controlled level of pH and KH levels, using the Peat Tea or RO water and then mixing controlled amounts of each to reach the desired pH and KH is much more accurate. I also have the same link as you as well as a couple of others, including making the big garbage can at a time so it's always ready to mix the appropriate amount of Peat Tea water with tap water during PWC's so that the tank stays more consistent. As mentioned before, it's always a LOT easier to just keep fish that like one's tap water but I understand why some folks might choose to get into the water chemistry adventure. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Per Diana over at aquaticplantcentral.com forums; Put a nylon stocking of peat moss in your filter. Small tank, a tablespoon or two. Medium size tank 1/4-1/2 cup. Larger tank a cup or more." If you want to make it into a tea you would just make hot water (boiling would work better), use that same nylon stocking trick with peat moss inside of it and soak it in the boiling water for at least several hours for it to soak into the water and make a brownish looking water. Overnight works better according to a lot of posts on that same forums. Here is the link to this same topic discussion in the forums and what other people had to say about it: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki ng-peat-tea-help.html Amber Noura wrote: > > I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific > site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making > and using it? > > The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do > than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of > doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and > the tap water. > The RO > water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other > chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute > things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. > > Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release > tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You > could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then > use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a > consistently lower pH level. > > This fish database search site, > http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search > <http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search> OR > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=inde > x_spec > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=ind > ex_spec> ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In > the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and > click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out > in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in > those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH > and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you > might want to check that out. > Putting > the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most > part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard > water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that > showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift > Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and > most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the > Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to > do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt > Water fish listed in the search results. > > If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the > four pages of results. > > Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having > your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in > the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make > their water compatible for these fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. > > Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do > well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for > sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert > aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your > minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my > tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. > Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! > > Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 > > Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the > fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something > that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say > to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than > the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know > you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if > BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. > I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no > different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't > driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a > percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G > doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that > was raised by the shells? > > I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so > bear with me please! > > and .. Thanks! > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not > staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term > effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive > versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when > discussing long term success. > While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will > not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for > them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term > effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live > for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans.> Yes, some fish will show negative > effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative > effects right away but instead show long term effects by having > multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. > > I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to > put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from > breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing > us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly > polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe > either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions > and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term > effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although > there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect > some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone > density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), > etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up > with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be > comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one > environment, to live in another type of environment. > > As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing > effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate > level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or > alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when > doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. > Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels > we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated > by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like > yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to > pH and water temperature in more detail. > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > > http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html> > > On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at > various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and > lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas > the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature > is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). > > This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. > > "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and > ammonia > (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of > the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and > higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being > present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia > toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia > can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." > > I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish > stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you > ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as > well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia > Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html.> > These are > suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you > can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are > safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in > the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free > ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off > the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to > alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l > (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like > yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia > problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high > enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please > note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but > NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other > products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert > lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article > where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by > side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test > <http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test> > > Hope this helps. > > Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, > which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to > consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change > things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind > of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page > which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different > tank sizes. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > > The above quick reference page has several good articles and also > links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Current water parameters: > Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed > about > 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" > Nitrite: 0 > I don't have ammonia test kit. > GH: 10-16 > KH: 10-15 > pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47137	From: bruce cohen	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: high fin banded shark

try liveaquaria.com  they have them   on the site i dont know if they have them in stock ________________________________ From: "betti@..." <betti@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 9:35:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] high fin banded shark   does anyone know a source to purchase a few high fin banded sharks? I would like to have 3 for my 180 gallon tank with the plan to transfer them into the outdoor pond when they are large enough. thanks betti [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47138	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Note that if your pH is already 8.4 crushed coral and limestone won't do much. They will increase your pH a little if your starting place is much lower. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans.> com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru. <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib. <http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html> com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem. <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html.> com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test> com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47139	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Noura, There are many kinds of wood used for aquarium decoration, some will add tannins to the water at a much faster or slower rate than others, and some may not release tannins at all. The nitrogen cycle will lower your pH faster than most driftwood. As others have mentioned, it can be dangerous to play with your pH. As the buffering capability of the water is neutralized by whatever your choice is, you get closer to that area where the pH can collapse, which, of course, will cause you problems big time. There are quite a few smaller fish that will do well in a high pH like yours. In your neck of the woods there is a killie that will do well in your water. I cannot remember its name for the life of me. As Amber has mentioned, nearly all the livebearers like hard, alkaline water. They come in all sizes, and some have interesting color, some have interesting behaviors, and some are just plain weird. You'll need to do your research both to determine if a fish is right for your situation, and, probably more important, available to you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47140	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Noura, Many of the Australian and New Guinean Rainbowfishes tolerate a wide range of pH and do well in hard alkaline water: even the Madagascar Rainbows enjoy high alkaline conditions. Some, such as Melanotaenia boesemani coming from the alkaline Ajamaru Lakes in the extreme western part of New Guinea (once known as Irian Jaya) prefer a pH in excess of 8.0. There are still others that do prefer more moderate alkaline conditions or even somewhat acidic conditions, so before diving into them ask us here first. Stay away from the Red Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus), also coming from the same alkaline lake region (Lake Sentani), as it can get aggressive. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47141	From: avinvasion	Date: 3/8/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

How to count fish accurately? I have 17 black neons in my tank -i had 18 and one had jumped out last week and since then, i often get paranoid. Most of the time i am able to count about 16 and i assume 17 are there. But this morning I was able to count only about 14.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47142	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

Take a digital picture of the entire tank from an angle where the camera is near gravel level and looking up.. or other angles that might show the best angle for counting your fish. Then, on your computer, view the photos enlarged for detail and count the fish. At least they'll be staying still in the picture. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avinvasion Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help with missing fish How to count fish accurately? I have 17 black neons in my tank -i had 18 and one had jumped out last week and since then, i often get paranoid. Most of the time i am able to count about 16 and i assume 17 are there. But this morning I was able to count only about 14.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47143	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

\\Steve//, You're probably thinking of the killifish Aphanius mento, that's endemic to the Orontes River drainage in Syria.</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47144	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. NO PEAT FOR ME! Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a couple of forum threads. http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4 af1b3490 OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki ng-peat-tea-help.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47145	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Africans food question

Hi, Due to some unexpected complications, I had to delay moving the new Malawi Cichlids to their own tank for ten additional days. So now they're are in the 20g community tank with 3Tetras (adults and juvies), 2Clown Loaches (juvies), and 3Zebra Danios (adults). So far it's a peaceful environment as the cichlids are still 1" . My question is about their nutrition IN that community tank. Here's what I'm doing please correct anything that you find wrong: *I put a piece of cucumber or lettuce all day long, attached by the "algae scrubber magnet piece", and take it out by the end of the day. I noticed that all the Kenyis and yellow labs are snaking on it during the day, as well as the Clown Loaches "they make clicking sounds with every bite". * I'm minimizing the dried worms feeding "blood worms and tubifex" to one meal/3 days, and using balanced quality flakes + Spirulina Flakes for regular feedings TWICE ADAY. * about once aweek , I'm throwing tiny pieces of raw cow/beef meat. And every fish in that tank goes crazy for it. * about once a week I'm throwing in crushed egg white (hard boiled). I'll write a different post about their dietary schedule when they're in their own cichlid tank. Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47146	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: MTS

A real MTS (Multi Tank Syndrome) freak, and he's just a hobbyst! http://sheneskillies.com/paka/shene_files/Fishrooms.html Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47147	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

It's not possible if you want to maintain a consistently lower pH. Putting some peat moss in a filter media bag in one of your filters will work but still has to be constantly tested and maintained. For example, if you add a cup of peat moss to the tank today, at a certain point, it will not be working as well as it did when you first put it in... but you would presumably still be doing your weekly PWC's with your source/tap water at the higher pH so the pH of the tank would start climbing due to the PWC's and the peat moss not working as well... so then you would have to add more peat moss which would then lower the pH again but then as it wears out and you do PWC's, the pH would start to climb again. This constant lowering and raising of your pH is not good for the health of many fish. As mentioned earlier in this thread, getting an RO filter system and making RO water would work but is a LOT more expensive than making Peat Moss Tea (although it's a fancier way of doing things) and the maintenance of the tanks would be the same with adding a certain percentage of your tap water and RO water with the incoming water with each PWC and this would maintain a target pH and GH level in the tank. Once again, this is why we urge folks to just keep fish that *like* the tap water parameters in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. NO PEAT FOR ME! Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a couple of forum threads. http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4 af1b3490 OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki ng-peat-tea-help.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47148	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

OK. Something else I just thought about, that I've seen advertised but haven't ever used or even read much about is a product put out by API called a Water Softener Pillow, which goes in a filter reservoir. From glancing at the FosterAndSmith page, it works using an ion exchange resin which can be recharged over and over using a brine water solution so that's a good thing. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3984+4 048&pcatid=4048 OR http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2 In case you can't open the site, here's some info from the site... * Rechargeable filter media effectively reduces general hardness in freshwater aquariums * Reduces aquarium GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium * Use Water Softener Pillow to replicate natural soft water conditions in the home aquarium Achieve ideal general hardness level in your freshwater aquarium. API Water Softener Pillow effectively reduces GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Helps protect sensitive soft water tropical fish from hard water. Also eliminates white, crusty mineral deposits on aquarium surfaces. Great for planted aquariums and aquariums housing angelfish, neon tetras, South American cichlids or any freshwater fish from soft water environments. Rechargeable resin may be successfully used multiple times to replicates natural, soft water conditions in the home aquarium. Safe for delicate tropical fish. Small ready-to-use pouch is for aquariums up to 20 gallons. API Water Softening Pillow Benefits: Scientifically proven to reduce GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Also removes heavy metals and reduces white crusty minerals on aquarium surface. API Water Softener Pillow can be reused after it is recharged in a salt solution. When to Use: When starting or maintaining an aquarium or when testing indicates water hardness above the desired level. Directions for Use: Rinse pouch under tap water. Place pouch in path of water flow in the aquarium filter. Activity of the pillow lasts 48 hours. After 48 hours, recharging is necessary. To Recharge: Dissolve 3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in 7 oz of tap water. Rinse pouch in tap water, then soak in salt solution for 2 hours. Place back in filter - there is no need to rinse. When not in use, store Water Softer Pillow in recharging solution. Do not let pillow dry out. Replace when Water Softener Pillow ceases to function properly after recharging. Testimonial By: Testimonial: Karen C Archer, FL I bought the product and I have only had to use it twice in my 55 gal tank to get the water hardness GH down from very hard 300 ppm to soft 75 ppm. Now, I can gradually lower the pH with the confidence the pH will be more stable as it is lowered. I was concerned that the salt used in the refreshing of the pillow would affect the Corys in my large 125 tank since, I have read Corys cannot tolerate any salt. I contacted the manufacture of the Water Softening Pillow and asked the question. I was told salt does not get into the tank water, it is the salt ions that does the softening. I really like this product! (END SNIP) I'm not sure how much it lowers the GH in just 48 hours BUT, based on that Testimonial, that seems like it could be too much, too fast, so I would only run it in the tank for an hour or two at a time, then test the pH and GH and give the fish time to acclimate for a few hours so their osmoregulatory system can stabilize. Then repeat the process again. I wouldn't want to lower the pH by more than 0.1 to 0.2 at a time or even per day so you could use this over a week or so to give the fish a chance to slowly acclimate down from your 8.4 pH and hard water to a lower GH and presumably lower pH. You should also test the KH levels to make sure they are being maintained to at least 4-7 dH of KH so you do not risk a total pH crash. Once you have your tanks down to where you want them. Then it's just a matter of using a container to hold some of your tap water before each PWC and run that through the filter pillow, using an extra filter system with only the Pillow in it, to lower your tap water down to the tank's GH and pH levels before doing PWC's from that softened water. This system, just like the RO or Peat Moss Tea would require lots of testing in the beginning but eventually you'll learn how long to run the tap water through a freshly recharged Pillow so that it's down to the GH and pH you are looking for and then you could test it to make sure before doing your PWC. If you accidentally softened it too much, you could just add a little more tap water to the mix. If you didn't soften it enough, then you could run the filter a little longer or just use the water as long as the GH and pH is close enough to your soft water tanks. I'm not sure how many times it can be recharged but based on my own experience with other rechargeable filter media products (Purigen and zeolite), they lose some efficiency with each recharge and eventually, after many recharges, become ineffective and would have to be replaced. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. NO PEAT FOR ME! Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a couple of forum threads. http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4 af1b3490 OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki ng-peat-tea-help.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47149	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

Hi I was just wondering how much they usually chafe colors? Yesterday I bought a green one and a brown one knowing they change color, but today the brown one is now pretty green. Also I bought 22 small crickets yesterday how many and how offten should I feed my frogs?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47150	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Help with missing fish

Clean the tank - when I can't find them over time, usually a couple are dead and decomposing in the back of the tank. On the other hand, usually a couple hide. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "avinvasion" <avinvasion@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:56 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Help with missing fish How to count fish accurately? I have 17 black neons in my tank -i had 18 and one had jumped out last week and since then, i often get paranoid. Most of the time i am able to count about 16 and i assume 17 are there. But this morning I was able to count only about 14. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47151	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Why not use one of those in a bucket of tap water to see how it affects the tap water first, then use that tap water for a PWC to slowly lower the GH (and consequently the pH)? Just a thought. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. Something else I just thought about, that I've seen advertised but > haven't ever used or even read much about is a product put out by API > called > a Water Softener Pillow, which goes in a filter reservoir. From > glancing at > the FosterAndSmith page, it works using an ion exchange resin which can be > recharged over and over using a brine water solution so that's a good > thing. > > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3984+4 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3984+4> > 048&pcatid=4048 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2 <http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2> > > In case you can't open the site, here's some info from the site... > > * Rechargeable filter media effectively reduces general hardness in > freshwater aquariums > * Reduces aquarium GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and > magnesium > * Use Water Softener Pillow to replicate natural soft water conditions in > the home aquarium > > Achieve ideal general hardness level in your freshwater aquarium. API > Water > Softener Pillow effectively reduces GH (general hardness) by lowering > calcium and magnesium. Helps protect sensitive soft water tropical > fish from > hard water. Also eliminates white, crusty mineral deposits on aquarium > surfaces. Great for planted aquariums and aquariums housing angelfish, > neon > tetras, South American cichlids or any freshwater fish from soft water > environments. Rechargeable resin may be successfully used multiple > times to > replicates natural, soft water conditions in the home aquarium. Safe for > delicate tropical fish. > > Small ready-to-use pouch is for aquariums up to 20 gallons. > > API Water Softening Pillow > Benefits: Scientifically proven to reduce GH (general hardness) by > lowering > calcium and magnesium. Also removes heavy metals and reduces white crusty > minerals on aquarium surface. API Water Softener Pillow can be reused > after > it is recharged in a salt solution. > When to Use: > When starting or maintaining an aquarium or when testing indicates water > hardness above the desired level. > > Directions for Use: > Rinse pouch under tap water. Place pouch in path of water flow in the > aquarium filter. Activity of the pillow lasts 48 hours. After 48 hours, > recharging is necessary. > > To Recharge: > Dissolve 3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in 7 oz of tap water. Rinse > pouch in > tap water, then soak in salt solution for 2 hours. Place back in filter - > there is no need to rinse. When not in use, store Water Softer Pillow in > recharging solution. Do not let pillow dry out. Replace when Water > Softener > Pillow ceases to function properly after recharging. > > Testimonial By: Testimonial: > Karen C > Archer, FL > I bought the product and I have only had to use it twice in my 55 gal > tank to get the water hardness GH down from very hard 300 ppm to soft 75 > ppm. Now, I can gradually lower the pH with the confidence the pH will be > more stable as it is lowered. I was concerned that the salt used in the > refreshing of the pillow would affect the Corys in my large 125 tank > since, > I have read Corys cannot tolerate any salt. I contacted the manufacture of > the Water Softening Pillow and asked the question. I was told salt > does not > get into the tank water, it is the salt ions that does the softening. I > really like this product! > > > (END SNIP) > > I'm not sure how much it lowers the GH in just 48 hours BUT, based on that > Testimonial, that seems like it could be too much, too fast, so I > would only > run it in the tank for an hour or two at a time, then test the pH and > GH and > give the fish time to acclimate for a few hours so their osmoregulatory > system can stabilize. Then repeat the process again. I wouldn't want to > lower the pH by more than 0.1 to 0.2 at a time or even per day so you > could > use this over a week or so to give the fish a chance to slowly acclimate > down from your 8.4 pH and hard water to a lower GH and presumably > lower pH. > You should also test the KH levels to make sure they are being > maintained to > at least 4-7 dH of KH so you do not risk a total pH crash. > > Once you have your tanks down to where you want them. Then it's just a > matter of using a container to hold some of your tap water before each PWC > and run that through the filter pillow, using an extra filter system with > only the Pillow in it, to lower your tap water down to the tank's GH > and pH > levels before doing PWC's from that softened water. > > This system, just like the RO or Peat Moss Tea would require lots of > testing > in the beginning but eventually you'll learn how long to run the tap water > through a freshly recharged Pillow so that it's down to the GH and pH you > are looking for and then you could test it to make sure before doing your > PWC. If you accidentally softened it too much, you could just add a little > more tap water to the mix. If you didn't soften it enough, then you could > run the filter a little longer or just use the water as long as the GH and > pH is close enough to your soft water tanks. > > I'm not sure how many times it can be recharged but based on my own > experience with other rechargeable filter media products (Purigen and > zeolite), they lose some efficiency with each recharge and eventually, > after > many recharges, become ineffective and would have to be replaced. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" > ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. > > NO PEAT FOR ME! > > Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that tank > and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a couple > of forum threads. > > http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html > <http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html> > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4 > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4> > af1b3490 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr <http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr> > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki> > ng-peat-tea-help.html > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly <http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly> > > To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a more > advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page > that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? > > The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than > raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it > would > be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The > RO > water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other > chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute > things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. > > Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release > tannins > which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make > Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat > Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. > > This fish database search site, > http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search > <http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search> OR > > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec> > ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced > Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search > button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G > tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only > one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 > pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. > Putting > the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, > any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although > there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the > search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but > there > were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just > guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also > need > brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I > also > noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. > > If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four > pages of results. > > Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your > kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby > and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water > compatible for these fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. > > Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well > in > a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but > I'm > counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) > to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have > only > African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. > Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! > > Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 > > Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish > to > suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be > added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 > level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 > pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH > by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as > easy, I would like to give it a try. > I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no > different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. > BUT, > on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken > (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, > maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? > > I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear > with > me please! > > and .. Thanks! > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not > staying > at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of > keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would > be > the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. > While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not > usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even > living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for > fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years > http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans.> Yes, some fish will show negative > effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects > right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health > issues and a shortened lifespan. > > I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put > things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from > breathing > and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we > are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and > feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under > water > or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and > breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing > issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term > conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long > term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is > slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not > thrive > and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be > comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to > live in another type of environment. > > As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing > effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, > controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert > monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter > maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight > ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for > with > our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH > levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites > explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in > more > detail. > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > > http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html> > > On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at > various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and > lower > water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same > ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% > (nearly > 200 times more toxic). > > This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. > > "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia > (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the > toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp > result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its > toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you > have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it > being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." > > I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff > from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since > they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try > to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html.> > These are > suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can > easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at > all > times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do > not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into > effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are > fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l > (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I > suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where > otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely > affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies > also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good > as > the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the > SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have > a > blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts > side > by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test > <http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test> > > Hope this helps. > > Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which > I > believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider > moving > all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the > future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can > have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many > "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > > The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to > the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Current water parameters: > Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed > about > 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" > Nitrite: 0 > I don't have ammonia test kit. > GH: 10-16 > KH: 10-15 > pH: 8.4 > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47152	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: MTS

Looks like fun to me (on a grand scale!!!   AAAAAHHHHH!!!).  That many tanks are a lot of work.  I like between 6-10 tanks myself (total).  I can usually keep what i want at the time in that amount of space.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 8:50:28 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] MTS   A real MTS (Multi Tank Syndrome) freak, and he's just a hobbyst! http://sheneskillie s.com/paka/ shene_files/ Fishrooms. html Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47153	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"

Hello Melinda:    they usually don't change much in color once they settle in.  the amount of crickets you offered are easily enough for 2-3 days.  About obce every other week they should be dusted lightly to add some extra vitamins and minerals.  Mealworms (standard, not superworms) can be added in a shallow dish (to prevent them from burrowing into the substrate) for a treat.  the frogs will quickly learn to go to the bowl for food.  the fire-belly toads you have are the Oriental Fire-belly toad (Bombina orientalis).    Enjoy them!!!    John ________________________________ From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 9:24:31 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! "Fire-Belly Toads"   Hi I was just wondering how much they usually chafe colors? Yesterday I bought a green one and a brown one knowing they change color, but today the brown one is now pretty green. Also I bought 22 small crickets yesterday how many and how offten should I feed my frogs? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47154	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Marineland Stealth heaters

Hello Group, I bought a new Stealth 250 heater for one of my tanks and have had no heating from it and all I get from Marineland is to let it sit in the water for 24 hours. Is it just me or is this company a joke? Sam in Chicago [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47155	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Good point! That would work better and then slowly lower the GH and pH of the targeted tank with each small PWC. I missed that since I was replying to the instructions and testimonial and urging any potential users of this product to NOT use it full time in a tank to drastically change things too much, too fast. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Why not use one of those in a bucket of tap water to see how it affects the tap water first, then use that tap water for a PWC to slowly lower the GH (and consequently the pH)? Just a thought. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. Something else I just thought about, that I've seen advertised but > haven't ever used or even read much about is a product put out by API > called a Water Softener Pillow, which goes in a filter reservoir. From > glancing at the FosterAndSmith page, it works using an ion exchange > resin which can be recharged over and over using a brine water > solution so that's a good thing. > > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+ > 3984+4 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578 > +3984+4> > 048&pcatid=4048 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2 <http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2> > > In case you can't open the site, here's some info from the site... > > * Rechargeable filter media effectively reduces general hardness in > freshwater aquariums > * Reduces aquarium GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and > magnesium > * Use Water Softener Pillow to replicate natural soft water conditions > in the home aquarium > > Achieve ideal general hardness level in your freshwater aquarium. API > Water Softener Pillow effectively reduces GH (general hardness) by > lowering calcium and magnesium. Helps protect sensitive soft water > tropical fish from hard water. Also eliminates white, crusty mineral > deposits on aquarium surfaces. Great for planted aquariums and > aquariums housing angelfish, neon tetras, South American cichlids or > any freshwater fish from soft water environments. Rechargeable resin > may be successfully used multiple times to replicates natural, soft > water conditions in the home aquarium. Safe for delicate tropical > fish. > > Small ready-to-use pouch is for aquariums up to 20 gallons. > > API Water Softening Pillow > Benefits: Scientifically proven to reduce GH (general hardness) by > lowering calcium and magnesium. Also removes heavy metals and reduces > white crusty minerals on aquarium surface. API Water Softener Pillow > can be reused after it is recharged in a salt solution. > When to Use: > When starting or maintaining an aquarium or when testing indicates > water hardness above the desired level. > > Directions for Use: > Rinse pouch under tap water. Place pouch in path of water flow in the > aquarium filter. Activity of the pillow lasts 48 hours. After 48 > hours, recharging is necessary. > > To Recharge: > Dissolve 3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in 7 oz of tap water. Rinse > pouch in tap water, then soak in salt solution for 2 hours. Place back > in filter - there is no need to rinse. When not in use, store Water > Softer Pillow in recharging solution. Do not let pillow dry out. > Replace when Water Softener Pillow ceases to function properly after > recharging. > > Testimonial By: Testimonial: > Karen C > Archer, FL > I bought the product and I have only had to use it twice in my 55 gal > tank to get the water hardness GH down from very hard 300 ppm to soft > 75 ppm. Now, I can gradually lower the pH with the confidence the pH > will be more stable as it is lowered. I was concerned that the salt > used in the refreshing of the pillow would affect the Corys in my > large 125 tank since, I have read Corys cannot tolerate any salt. I > contacted the manufacture of the Water Softening Pillow and asked the > question. I was told salt does not get into the tank water, it is the > salt ions that does the softening. I really like this product! > > > (END SNIP) > > I'm not sure how much it lowers the GH in just 48 hours BUT, based on > that Testimonial, that seems like it could be too much, too fast, so I > would only run it in the tank for an hour or two at a time, then test > the pH and GH and give the fish time to acclimate for a few hours so > their osmoregulatory system can stabilize. Then repeat the process > again. I wouldn't want to lower the pH by more than 0.1 to 0.2 at a > time or even per day so you could use this over a week or so to give > the fish a chance to slowly acclimate down from your 8.4 pH and hard > water to a lower GH and presumably lower pH. > You should also test the KH levels to make sure they are being > maintained to at least 4-7 dH of KH so you do not risk a total pH > crash. > > Once you have your tanks down to where you want them. Then it's just a > matter of using a container to hold some of your tap water before each > PWC and run that through the filter pillow, using an extra filter > system with only the Pillow in it, to lower your tap water down to the > tank's GH and pH levels before doing PWC's from that softened water. > > This system, just like the RO or Peat Moss Tea would require lots of > testing in the beginning but eventually you'll learn how long to run > the tap water through a freshly recharged Pillow so that it's down to > the GH and pH you are looking for and then you could test it to make > sure before doing your PWC. If you accidentally softened it too much, > you could just add a little more tap water to the mix. If you didn't > soften it enough, then you could run the filter a little longer or > just use the water as long as the GH and pH is close enough to your > soft water tanks. > > I'm not sure how many times it can be recharged but based on my own > experience with other rechargeable filter media products (Purigen and > zeolite), they lose some efficiency with each recharge and eventually, > after many recharges, become ineffective and would have to be > replaced. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" > ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. > > NO PEAT FOR ME! > > Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that > tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a > couple of forum threads. > > http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html > <http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html> > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b > 932ac4 > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37 > b932ac4> > af1b3490 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr <http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr> > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/5735 > 1-maki > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/573 > 51-maki> > ng-peat-tea-help.html > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly <http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly> > > To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a > more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific > site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? > > The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do > than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of > doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and > the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or > very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap > water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO > filters are not cheap though. > > Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release > tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You > could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then > use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a > consistently lower pH level. > > This fish database search site, > http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search > <http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search> OR > > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=inde > x_spec > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=ind > ex_spec> ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In > the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and > click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out > in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in > those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH > and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you > might want to check that out. > Putting > the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most > part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard > water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that > showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift > Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and > most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the > Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to > do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt > Water fish listed in the search results. > > If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the > four pages of results. > > Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having > your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in > the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make > their water compatible for these fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. > > Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do > well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for > sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert > aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your > minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my > tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. > Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! > > Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 > > Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the > fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something > that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say > to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than > the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know > you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if > BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. > I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no > different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. > BUT, > on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of > broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm > thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? > > I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so > bear with me please! > > and .. Thanks! > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not > staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term > effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive > versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when > discussing long term success. > While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will > not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for > them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term > effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live > for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans.> Yes, some fish will show negative > effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative > effects right away but instead show long term effects by having > multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. > > I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to > put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from > breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing > us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly > polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe > either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions > and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term > effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although > there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect > some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone > density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), > etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up > with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be > comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one > environment, to live in another type of environment. > > As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing > effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate > level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or > alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when > doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. > Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels > we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated > by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like > yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to > pH and water temperature in more detail. > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > > http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html> > > On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at > various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and > lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas > the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature > is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). > > This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. > > "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and > ammonia > (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of > the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and > higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being > present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia > toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia > can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." > > I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish > stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you > ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as > well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia > Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html.> > These are > suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you > can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are > safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in > the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free > ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off > the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to > alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l > (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like > yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia > problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high > enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please > note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but > NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other > products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert > lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article > where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by > side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test > <http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test> > > Hope this helps. > > Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, > which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to > consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change > things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind > of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page > which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different > tank sizes. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > > The above quick reference page has several good articles and also > links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Current water parameters: > Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed > about > 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" > Nitrite: 0 > I don't have ammonia test kit. > GH: 10-16 > KH: 10-15 > pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47156	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

What does "neck of the woods" mean? you know I'm not an English native speaker. :) and , you're totally right about playing with the pH, and that's what I tried to avoid when I inquired about easy and permanent methods of lowering the pH. How do you know if a certain piece of wood will release Tannins or not? would putting it in a bucket for a week or so and test the pH before and after work? About that nitrogen cycle, since it's happeing ALL THE TIME in a cycled tank, how will it change my pH anyway? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Noura, There are many kinds of wood used for aquarium decoration, some will add tannins to the water at a much faster or slower rate than others, and some may not release tannins at all. The nitrogen cycle will lower your pH faster than most driftwood. As others have mentioned, it can be dangerous to play with your pH. As the buffering capability of the water is neutralized by whatever your choice is, you get closer to that area where the pH can collapse, which, of course, will cause you problems big time. There are quite a few smaller fish that will do well in a high pH like yours. In your neck of the woods there is a killie that will do well in your water. I cannot remember its name for the life of me. As Amber has mentioned, nearly all the livebearers like hard, alkaline water. They come in all sizes, and some have interesting color, some have interesting behaviors, and some are just plain weird. You'll need to do your research both to determine if a fish is right for your situation, and, probably more important, available to you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47157	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: MTS

Yeah... that's no longer a hobby. That's a full time job. John, On a side note... based on yesterday's news out of Washington... are you Rahm's daddy? LOL Sorry... couldn't resist. I hope you saw today's post about the Fire Bellied Toads also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] MTS    Looks like fun to me (on a grand scale!!!   AAAAAHHHHH!!!).  That many tanks are a lot of work.  I like between 6-10 tanks myself (total).  I can usually keep what i want at the time in that amount of space.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 8:50:28 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] MTS   A real MTS (Multi Tank Syndrome) freak, and he's just a hobbyst! http://sheneskillies.com/paka/shene_files/Fishrooms.html Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47158	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters

Hmmmmm... second major complaint I've heard about Marineland since it's been taken over by the same group that owns Tetra. They used to be a pretty good company when Dr. Tim was the Chief Science Officer but he left during the takeover and formed his own company and I'm sure Marineland suffered other brain-drain issues as well. That's certainly not a very logical answer for them to give you. Is the light coming on showing that it is supposed to be working? Is your thermometer accurate? Do you have another heater in the tank and maybe there hasn't been a need for the Stealth to come on? Is it still under warranty? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters Hello Group, I bought a new Stealth 250 heater for one of my tanks and have had no heating from it and all I get from Marineland is to let it sit in the water for 24 hours. Is it just me or is this company a joke? Sam in Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47159	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters

Well, I got a 10 watt for my little 2 gallon, same brand, a month ago, and it variously woudln't work and heated teh tank to 86, and it's preset to 78. I wondered if that model wasn't reliable and that's why they appear to have discontinued it. Marineland and Stealth - same thing? have always been reliable. I don't know; maybe they suddenly sold out to China? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters Hello Group, I bought a new Stealth 250 heater for one of my tanks and have had no heating from it and all I get from Marineland is to let it sit in the water for 24 hours. Is it just me or is this company a joke? Sam in Chicago [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47160	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

one more thing.. when the water softens, does the pH go down with it too? why? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I love it! looks easy and affordable, I'm interested in softening the water a little even if not accompanied with pH decrease, because plants in general don't thrive in my tanks, I guess due to the hardness. But I didn't understand how long will one package last in a 20G. and when you "wash" it to recharge do you use just salty water prepared at home, or a special salt water solution? I understood the purpose of first using the "pillow" for replacing water in pwc's only, but eventually you'll put the pillow in the tank, right? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] OK. Something else I just thought about, that I've seen advertised but haven't ever used or even read much about is a product put out by API called a Water Softener Pillow, which goes in a filter reservoir. From glancing at the FosterAndSmith page, it works using an ion exchange resin which can be recharged over and over using a brine water solution so that's a good thing. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3984+4 048&pcatid=4048 OR http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2 In case you can't open the site, here's some info from the site... * Rechargeable filter media effectively reduces general hardness in freshwater aquariums * Reduces aquarium GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium * Use Water Softener Pillow to replicate natural soft water conditions in the home aquarium Achieve ideal general hardness level in your freshwater aquarium. API Water Softener Pillow effectively reduces GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Helps protect sensitive soft water tropical fish from hard water. Also eliminates white, crusty mineral deposits on aquarium surfaces. Great for planted aquariums and aquariums housing angelfish, neon tetras, South American cichlids or any freshwater fish from soft water environments. Rechargeable resin may be successfully used multiple times to replicates natural, soft water conditions in the home aquarium. Safe for delicate tropical fish. Small ready-to-use pouch is for aquariums up to 20 gallons. API Water Softening Pillow Benefits: Scientifically proven to reduce GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Also removes heavy metals and reduces white crusty minerals on aquarium surface. API Water Softener Pillow can be reused after it is recharged in a salt solution. When to Use: When starting or maintaining an aquarium or when testing indicates water hardness above the desired level. Directions for Use: Rinse pouch under tap water. Place pouch in path of water flow in the aquarium filter. Activity of the pillow lasts 48 hours. After 48 hours, recharging is necessary. To Recharge: Dissolve 3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in 7 oz of tap water. Rinse pouch in tap water, then soak in salt solution for 2 hours. Place back in filter - there is no need to rinse. When not in use, store Water Softer Pillow in recharging solution. Do not let pillow dry out. Replace when Water Softener Pillow ceases to function properly after recharging. Testimonial By: Testimonial: Karen C Archer, FL I bought the product and I have only had to use it twice in my 55 gal tank to get the water hardness GH down from very hard 300 ppm to soft 75 ppm. Now, I can gradually lower the pH with the confidence the pH will be more stable as it is lowered. I was concerned that the salt used in the refreshing of the pillow would affect the Corys in my large 125 tank since, I have read Corys cannot tolerate any salt. I contacted the manufacture of the Water Softening Pillow and asked the question. I was told salt does not get into the tank water, it is the salt ions that does the softening. I really like this product! (END SNIP) I'm not sure how much it lowers the GH in just 48 hours BUT, based on that Testimonial, that seems like it could be too much, too fast, so I would only run it in the tank for an hour or two at a time, then test the pH and GH and give the fish time to acclimate for a few hours so their osmoregulatory system can stabilize. Then repeat the process again. I wouldn't want to lower the pH by more than 0.1 to 0.2 at a time or even per day so you could use this over a week or so to give the fish a chance to slowly acclimate down from your 8.4 pH and hard water to a lower GH and presumably lower pH. You should also test the KH levels to make sure they are being maintained to at least 4-7 dH of KH so you do not risk a total pH crash. Once you have your tanks down to where you want them. Then it's just a matter of using a container to hold some of your tap water before each PWC and run that through the filter pillow, using an extra filter system with only the Pillow in it, to lower your tap water down to the tank's GH and pH levels before doing PWC's from that softened water. This system, just like the RO or Peat Moss Tea would require lots of testing in the beginning but eventually you'll learn how long to run the tap water through a freshly recharged Pillow so that it's down to the GH and pH you are looking for and then you could test it to make sure before doing your PWC. If you accidentally softened it too much, you could just add a little more tap water to the mix. If you didn't soften it enough, then you could run the filter a little longer or just use the water as long as the GH and pH is close enough to your soft water tanks. I'm not sure how many times it can be recharged but based on my own experience with other rechargeable filter media products (Purigen and zeolite), they lose some efficiency with each recharge and eventually, after many recharges, become ineffective and would have to be replaced. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. NO PEAT FOR ME! Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a couple of forum threads. http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4 af1b3490 OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki ng-peat-tea-help.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47161	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

I love it! looks easy and affordable, I'm interested in softening the water a little even if not accompanied with pH decrease, because plants in general don't thrive in my tanks, I guess due to the hardness. But I didn't understand how long will one package last in a 20G. and when you "wash" it to recharge do you use just salty water prepared at home, or a special salt water solution? I understood the purpose of first using the "pillow" for replacing water in pwc's only, but eventually you'll put the pillow in the tank, right? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] OK. Something else I just thought about, that I've seen advertised but haven't ever used or even read much about is a product put out by API called a Water Softener Pillow, which goes in a filter reservoir. From glancing at the FosterAndSmith page, it works using an ion exchange resin which can be recharged over and over using a brine water solution so that's a good thing. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3984+4 048&pcatid=4048 OR http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2 In case you can't open the site, here's some info from the site... * Rechargeable filter media effectively reduces general hardness in freshwater aquariums * Reduces aquarium GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium * Use Water Softener Pillow to replicate natural soft water conditions in the home aquarium Achieve ideal general hardness level in your freshwater aquarium. API Water Softener Pillow effectively reduces GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Helps protect sensitive soft water tropical fish from hard water. Also eliminates white, crusty mineral deposits on aquarium surfaces. Great for planted aquariums and aquariums housing angelfish, neon tetras, South American cichlids or any freshwater fish from soft water environments. Rechargeable resin may be successfully used multiple times to replicates natural, soft water conditions in the home aquarium. Safe for delicate tropical fish. Small ready-to-use pouch is for aquariums up to 20 gallons. API Water Softening Pillow Benefits: Scientifically proven to reduce GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Also removes heavy metals and reduces white crusty minerals on aquarium surface. API Water Softener Pillow can be reused after it is recharged in a salt solution. When to Use: When starting or maintaining an aquarium or when testing indicates water hardness above the desired level. Directions for Use: Rinse pouch under tap water. Place pouch in path of water flow in the aquarium filter. Activity of the pillow lasts 48 hours. After 48 hours, recharging is necessary. To Recharge: Dissolve 3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in 7 oz of tap water. Rinse pouch in tap water, then soak in salt solution for 2 hours. Place back in filter - there is no need to rinse. When not in use, store Water Softer Pillow in recharging solution. Do not let pillow dry out. Replace when Water Softener Pillow ceases to function properly after recharging. Testimonial By: Testimonial: Karen C Archer, FL I bought the product and I have only had to use it twice in my 55 gal tank to get the water hardness GH down from very hard 300 ppm to soft 75 ppm. Now, I can gradually lower the pH with the confidence the pH will be more stable as it is lowered. I was concerned that the salt used in the refreshing of the pillow would affect the Corys in my large 125 tank since, I have read Corys cannot tolerate any salt. I contacted the manufacture of the Water Softening Pillow and asked the question. I was told salt does not get into the tank water, it is the salt ions that does the softening. I really like this product! (END SNIP) I'm not sure how much it lowers the GH in just 48 hours BUT, based on that Testimonial, that seems like it could be too much, too fast, so I would only run it in the tank for an hour or two at a time, then test the pH and GH and give the fish time to acclimate for a few hours so their osmoregulatory system can stabilize. Then repeat the process again. I wouldn't want to lower the pH by more than 0.1 to 0.2 at a time or even per day so you could use this over a week or so to give the fish a chance to slowly acclimate down from your 8.4 pH and hard water to a lower GH and presumably lower pH. You should also test the KH levels to make sure they are being maintained to at least 4-7 dH of KH so you do not risk a total pH crash. Once you have your tanks down to where you want them. Then it's just a matter of using a container to hold some of your tap water before each PWC and run that through the filter pillow, using an extra filter system with only the Pillow in it, to lower your tap water down to the tank's GH and pH levels before doing PWC's from that softened water. This system, just like the RO or Peat Moss Tea would require lots of testing in the beginning but eventually you'll learn how long to run the tap water through a freshly recharged Pillow so that it's down to the GH and pH you are looking for and then you could test it to make sure before doing your PWC. If you accidentally softened it too much, you could just add a little more tap water to the mix. If you didn't soften it enough, then you could run the filter a little longer or just use the water as long as the GH and pH is close enough to your soft water tanks. I'm not sure how many times it can be recharged but based on my own experience with other rechargeable filter media products (Purigen and zeolite), they lose some efficiency with each recharge and eventually, after many recharges, become ineffective and would have to be replaced. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. NO PEAT FOR ME! Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a couple of forum threads. http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4 af1b3490 OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki ng-peat-tea-help.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47162	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

lol. "my neck of the woods" means "my area of town/state/country/etc." or woods if one actually lived in the woods, which could very well be likely with \\Steve//. We'd have to ask him the age-old question about bears and trees to find out for sure. LOL Yes, soaking the driftwood first will show you if it's releasing tannins since it would color the water tannish to brownish color. If you test the water before and after, I'm almost certain the pH would be much lower. The nitrogen cycle and the overall ecology of a tank will lower the pH in ALL tanks unless there is something in the tank to constantly be adding buffers back to the tank like crushed coral, cuttlebone, etc. All life forms on earth are carbon based and use carbon as part of their living so the KH (Carbonate Hardness) level will constantly be lowering and as the KH goes lower, the pH will also go lower. Further, as part of life, the fish put out CO2 when they breathe and when it's mixed with water, it's acidic, urine is acidic, dying microbes (including the bacteria that make up the nitrifying bacteria) put out carbonic acid as they break down and also the nitrifying bacteria put out CO2 as they breathe to live. All of these various acids will lower the pH. This is just another reason why it's important to do frequent and regular PWC's so we are constantly replenishing the KH and other essential minerals and macro nutrients to feed the overall ecology of our tanks. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] What does "neck of the woods" mean? you know I'm not an English native speaker. :) and , you're totally right about playing with the pH, and that's what I tried to avoid when I inquired about easy and permanent methods of lowering the pH. How do you know if a certain piece of wood will release Tannins or not? would putting it in a bucket for a week or so and test the pH before and after work? About that nitrogen cycle, since it's happeing ALL THE TIME in a cycled tank, how will it change my pH anyway? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Noura, There are many kinds of wood used for aquarium decoration, some will add tannins to the water at a much faster or slower rate than others, and some may not release tannins at all. The nitrogen cycle will lower your pH faster than most driftwood. As others have mentioned, it can be dangerous to play with your pH. As the buffering capability of the water is neutralized by whatever your choice is, you get closer to that area where the pH can collapse, which, of course, will cause you problems big time. There are quite a few smaller fish that will do well in a high pH like yours. In your neck of the woods there is a killie that will do well in your water. I cannot remember its name for the life of me. As Amber has mentioned, nearly all the livebearers like hard, alkaline water. They come in all sizes, and some have interesting color, some have interesting behaviors, and some are just plain weird. You'll need to do your research both to determine if a fish is right for your situation, and, probably more important, available to you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47163	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters

Nope. They sold out to Tetra... which is just as bad... and maybe even worse, since not everything from China is bad. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters Well, I got a 10 watt for my little 2 gallon, same brand, a month ago, and it variously woudln't work and heated teh tank to 86, and it's preset to 78. I wondered if that model wasn't reliable and that's why they appear to have discontinued it. Marineland and Stealth - same thing? have always been reliable. I don't know; maybe they suddenly sold out to China? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters Hello Group, I bought a new Stealth 250 heater for one of my tanks and have had no heating from it and all I get from Marineland is to let it sit in the water for 24 hours. Is it just me or is this company a joke? Sam in Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47164	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

It probably will but it's not guaranteed to do so. One of those Peat Moss Tea articles discussed this a little. Fish that come from and prefer low pH levels might also like these waters due to low levels of TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) which is usually consistent with a low pH since GH and KH levels pretty much determine the pH level but all three are inter-dependent on each other. Yes, re-read my original post about the Pillow and the instructions. It just takes a Brine salt water solution (I think they said 3 tablespoons of salt in 7 oz. of water) and soaking the Pillow for a couple of hours to recharge it. Normal, regular table salt will work fine. If you use the Pillow on your tap water and lower the GH and probably the pH ahead of time, there would be no need to use the Pillow in your tank. For folks that do not have an extra filter system and tub to use to run their tap water through the Pillow for a couple of hours or so first, then they would have to add it to their tank's filter but would have to follow my warnings about lowering things too much, too fast. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 1:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish one more thing.. when the water softens, does the pH go down with it too? why? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I love it! looks easy and affordable, I'm interested in softening the water a little even if not accompanied with pH decrease, because plants in general don't thrive in my tanks, I guess due to the hardness. But I didn't understand how long will one package last in a 20G. and when you "wash" it to recharge do you use just salty water prepared at home, or a special salt water solution? I understood the purpose of first using the "pillow" for replacing water in pwc's only, but eventually you'll put the pillow in the tank, right? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] OK. Something else I just thought about, that I've seen advertised but haven't ever used or even read much about is a product put out by API called a Water Softener Pillow, which goes in a filter reservoir. From glancing at the FosterAndSmith page, it works using an ion exchange resin which can be recharged over and over using a brine water solution so that's a good thing. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3984+4 048&pcatid=4048 OR http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2 In case you can't open the site, here's some info from the site... * Rechargeable filter media effectively reduces general hardness in freshwater aquariums * Reduces aquarium GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium * Use Water Softener Pillow to replicate natural soft water conditions in the home aquarium Achieve ideal general hardness level in your freshwater aquarium. API Water Softener Pillow effectively reduces GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Helps protect sensitive soft water tropical fish from hard water. Also eliminates white, crusty mineral deposits on aquarium surfaces. Great for planted aquariums and aquariums housing angelfish, neon tetras, South American cichlids or any freshwater fish from soft water environments. Rechargeable resin may be successfully used multiple times to replicates natural, soft water conditions in the home aquarium. Safe for delicate tropical fish. Small ready-to-use pouch is for aquariums up to 20 gallons. API Water Softening Pillow Benefits: Scientifically proven to reduce GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Also removes heavy metals and reduces white crusty minerals on aquarium surface. API Water Softener Pillow can be reused after it is recharged in a salt solution. When to Use: When starting or maintaining an aquarium or when testing indicates water hardness above the desired level. Directions for Use: Rinse pouch under tap water. Place pouch in path of water flow in the aquarium filter. Activity of the pillow lasts 48 hours. After 48 hours, recharging is necessary. To Recharge: Dissolve 3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in 7 oz of tap water. Rinse pouch in tap water, then soak in salt solution for 2 hours. Place back in filter - there is no need to rinse. When not in use, store Water Softer Pillow in recharging solution. Do not let pillow dry out. Replace when Water Softener Pillow ceases to function properly after recharging. Testimonial By: Testimonial: Karen C Archer, FL I bought the product and I have only had to use it twice in my 55 gal tank to get the water hardness GH down from very hard 300 ppm to soft 75 ppm. Now, I can gradually lower the pH with the confidence the pH will be more stable as it is lowered. I was concerned that the salt used in the refreshing of the pillow would affect the Corys in my large 125 tank since, I have read Corys cannot tolerate any salt. I contacted the manufacture of the Water Softening Pillow and asked the question. I was told salt does not get into the tank water, it is the salt ions that does the softening. I really like this product! (END SNIP) I'm not sure how much it lowers the GH in just 48 hours BUT, based on that Testimonial, that seems like it could be too much, too fast, so I would only run it in the tank for an hour or two at a time, then test the pH and GH and give the fish time to acclimate for a few hours so their osmoregulatory system can stabilize. Then repeat the process again. I wouldn't want to lower the pH by more than 0.1 to 0.2 at a time or even per day so you could use this over a week or so to give the fish a chance to slowly acclimate down from your 8.4 pH and hard water to a lower GH and presumably lower pH. You should also test the KH levels to make sure they are being maintained to at least 4-7 dH of KH so you do not risk a total pH crash. Once you have your tanks down to where you want them. Then it's just a matter of using a container to hold some of your tap water before each PWC and run that through the filter pillow, using an extra filter system with only the Pillow in it, to lower your tap water down to the tank's GH and pH levels before doing PWC's from that softened water. This system, just like the RO or Peat Moss Tea would require lots of testing in the beginning but eventually you'll learn how long to run the tap water through a freshly recharged Pillow so that it's down to the GH and pH you are looking for and then you could test it to make sure before doing your PWC. If you accidentally softened it too much, you could just add a little more tap water to the mix. If you didn't soften it enough, then you could run the filter a little longer or just use the water as long as the GH and pH is close enough to your soft water tanks. I'm not sure how many times it can be recharged but based on my own experience with other rechargeable filter media products (Purigen and zeolite), they lose some efficiency with each recharge and eventually, after many recharges, become ineffective and would have to be replaced. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. NO PEAT FOR ME! Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a couple of forum threads. http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4 af1b3490 OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki ng-peat-tea-help.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47165	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

On the other hand, read these paragraphs, they say that these "softening pillows" release Na ions to replace Ca and Mg ions, and that fish won't appreciate that extra sodium. Won't this Sodium also "hurt" the plants as it resembles putting salt "NaCl sodium chloride" in the water? http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html [Typical home water softeners soften water using a technique known as ``ion exchange''. That is, they remove calcium and magnesium ions by replacing them with sodium ions. Although this does technically make water softer, most fish won't notice the difference. That is, fish that prefer soft water don't like sodium either, and for them such water softeners don't help at all. Thus, home water softeners are not an appropriate way to soften water for aquarium use. Fish stores also market ``water softening pillows''. They use the same ion-exchange principle. One ``recharges'' the pillow by soaking it in a salt water solution, then places it in the tank where the sodium ions are released into the water and replaced by calcium and magnesium ions. After a few hours or days, the pillow (along with the calcium and magnesium) are removed, and the pillow recharged. The pillows sold in stores are too small to work well in practice, and shouldn't be used for the same reason cited above.] End of quote. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Good point! That would work better and then slowly lower the GH and pH of the targeted tank with each small PWC. I missed that since I was replying to the instructions and testimonial and urging any potential users of this product to NOT use it full time in a tank to drastically change things too much, too fast. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Why not use one of those in a bucket of tap water to see how it affects the tap water first, then use that tap water for a PWC to slowly lower the GH (and consequently the pH)? Just a thought. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. Something else I just thought about, that I've seen advertised but > haven't ever used or even read much about is a product put out by API > called a Water Softener Pillow, which goes in a filter reservoir. From > glancing at the FosterAndSmith page, it works using an ion exchange > resin which can be recharged over and over using a brine water > solution so that's a good thing. > > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+ > 3984+4 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578 > +3984+4> > 048&pcatid=4048 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2 <http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2> > > In case you can't open the site, here's some info from the site... > > * Rechargeable filter media effectively reduces general hardness in > freshwater aquariums > * Reduces aquarium GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and > magnesium > * Use Water Softener Pillow to replicate natural soft water conditions > in the home aquarium > > Achieve ideal general hardness level in your freshwater aquarium. API > Water Softener Pillow effectively reduces GH (general hardness) by > lowering calcium and magnesium. Helps protect sensitive soft water > tropical fish from hard water. Also eliminates white, crusty mineral > deposits on aquarium surfaces. Great for planted aquariums and > aquariums housing angelfish, neon tetras, South American cichlids or > any freshwater fish from soft water environments. Rechargeable resin > may be successfully used multiple times to replicates natural, soft > water conditions in the home aquarium. Safe for delicate tropical > fish. > > Small ready-to-use pouch is for aquariums up to 20 gallons. > > API Water Softening Pillow > Benefits: Scientifically proven to reduce GH (general hardness) by > lowering calcium and magnesium. Also removes heavy metals and reduces > white crusty minerals on aquarium surface. API Water Softener Pillow > can be reused after it is recharged in a salt solution. > When to Use: > When starting or maintaining an aquarium or when testing indicates > water hardness above the desired level. > > Directions for Use: > Rinse pouch under tap water. Place pouch in path of water flow in the > aquarium filter. Activity of the pillow lasts 48 hours. After 48 > hours, recharging is necessary. > > To Recharge: > Dissolve 3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in 7 oz of tap water. Rinse > pouch in tap water, then soak in salt solution for 2 hours. Place back > in filter - there is no need to rinse. When not in use, store Water > Softer Pillow in recharging solution. Do not let pillow dry out. > Replace when Water Softener Pillow ceases to function properly after > recharging. > > Testimonial By: Testimonial: > Karen C > Archer, FL > I bought the product and I have only had to use it twice in my 55 gal > tank to get the water hardness GH down from very hard 300 ppm to soft > 75 ppm. Now, I can gradually lower the pH with the confidence the pH > will be more stable as it is lowered. I was concerned that the salt > used in the refreshing of the pillow would affect the Corys in my > large 125 tank since, I have read Corys cannot tolerate any salt. I > contacted the manufacture of the Water Softening Pillow and asked the > question. I was told salt does not get into the tank water, it is the > salt ions that does the softening. I really like this product! > > > (END SNIP) > > I'm not sure how much it lowers the GH in just 48 hours BUT, based on > that Testimonial, that seems like it could be too much, too fast, so I > would only run it in the tank for an hour or two at a time, then test > the pH and GH and give the fish time to acclimate for a few hours so > their osmoregulatory system can stabilize. Then repeat the process > again. I wouldn't want to lower the pH by more than 0.1 to 0.2 at a > time or even per day so you could use this over a week or so to give > the fish a chance to slowly acclimate down from your 8.4 pH and hard > water to a lower GH and presumably lower pH. > You should also test the KH levels to make sure they are being > maintained to at least 4-7 dH of KH so you do not risk a total pH > crash. > > Once you have your tanks down to where you want them. Then it's just a > matter of using a container to hold some of your tap water before each > PWC and run that through the filter pillow, using an extra filter > system with only the Pillow in it, to lower your tap water down to the > tank's GH and pH levels before doing PWC's from that softened water. > > This system, just like the RO or Peat Moss Tea would require lots of > testing in the beginning but eventually you'll learn how long to run > the tap water through a freshly recharged Pillow so that it's down to > the GH and pH you are looking for and then you could test it to make > sure before doing your PWC. If you accidentally softened it too much, > you could just add a little more tap water to the mix. If you didn't > soften it enough, then you could run the filter a little longer or > just use the water as long as the GH and pH is close enough to your > soft water tanks. > > I'm not sure how many times it can be recharged but based on my own > experience with other rechargeable filter media products (Purigen and > zeolite), they lose some efficiency with each recharge and eventually, > after many recharges, become ineffective and would have to be > replaced. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" > ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. > > NO PEAT FOR ME! > > Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that > tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a > couple of forum threads. > > http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html > <http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html> > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b > 932ac4 > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37 > b932ac4> > af1b3490 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr <http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr> > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/5735 > 1-maki > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/573 > 51-maki> > ng-peat-tea-help.html > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly <http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly> > > To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a > more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific > site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? > > The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do > than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of > doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and > the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or > very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap > water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO > filters are not cheap though. > > Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release > tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You > could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then > use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a > consistently lower pH level. > > This fish database search site, > http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search > <http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search> OR > > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=inde > x_spec > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=ind > ex_spec> ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In > the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and > click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out > in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in > those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH > and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you > might want to check that out. > Putting > the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most > part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard > water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that > showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift > Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and > most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the > Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to > do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt > Water fish listed in the search results. > > If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the > four pages of results. > > Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having > your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in > the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make > their water compatible for these fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. > > Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do > well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for > sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert > aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your > minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my > tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. > Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! > > Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 > > Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the > fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something > that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say > to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than > the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know > you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if > BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. > I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no > different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. > BUT, > on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of > broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm > thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? > > I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so > bear with me please! > > and .. Thanks! > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not > staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term > effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive > versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when > discussing long term success. > While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will > not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for > them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term > effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live > for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans.> Yes, some fish will show negative > effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative > effects right away but instead show long term effects by having > multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. > > I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to > put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from > breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing > us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly > polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe > either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions > and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term > effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although > there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect > some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone > density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), > etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up > with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be > comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one > environment, to live in another type of environment. > > As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing > effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate > level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or > alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when > doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. > Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels > we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated > by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like > yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to > pH and water temperature in more detail. > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > > http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html> > > On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at > various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and > lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas > the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature > is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). > > This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. > > "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and > ammonia > (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of > the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and > higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being > present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia > toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia > can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." > > I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish > stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you > ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as > well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia > Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html.> > These are > suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you > can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are > safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in > the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free > ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off > the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to > alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l > (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like > yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia > problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high > enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please > note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but > NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other > products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert > lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article > where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by > side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test > <http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test> > > Hope this helps. > > Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, > which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to > consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change > things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind > of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page > which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different > tank sizes. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > > The above quick reference page has several good articles and also > links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Current water parameters: > Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed > about > 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" > Nitrite: 0 > I don't have ammonia test kit. > GH: 10-16 > KH: 10-15 > pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47166	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

That article that you referenced is a "mirror" site of TheKrib.com's website and part of the tutorial which I reference all the time and on my A to Z of fish keeping page. http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html (or click on the Contents link and take the entire tutorial from start to end and become an expert beginner. ;-)) Read the part about "Salinity" as well as the part you referenced. Yes, the Pillows do work on the same principle of a home water softening unit so they do add a little Na (Sodium... not Salt which would be NaCl) to the water. Sodium is not the same as salt but I do understand the concern as to how a higher sodium level might affect the fish. All that said, we use LOTS of products in our tanks that have various forms of sodium in it... from our dechlor products which the primary ingredient is Sodium Thiosulphate and many folks add Baking Soda to raise their KH level and Baking Soda is Sodium Bicarbonate... and of course Salt when treating for many health issues. Many medications also have Sodium as part of their chemical compound. Sodium is used in many chemical compounds as it is like a binder to hold the chemicals together since it's such a common element on earth. There probably are some kind of resins that will also remove sodium but I haven't seen them advertised. I just got done doing some Googling and this same question and discussion came up on an Orchid forum and while I don't keep Orchids, I know someone who does and they are quite zealous about their Orchid plants. Here's the Orchid thread. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/orchids/msg1016490619949.html I also found a scientific article prepared by Harvard University for NASA (USA's Space Program) but I would imagine that is out of most of our price range. LOL Here is the abstract. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1963Sci...141.1038P Ion-Exchange Removal of Sodium Chloride from Water with Calcium Hydroxide as Recoverable Regenerant Popper, Karel; Bouthilet, Robert J.; Slamecka, Vladimir Science, Volume 141, Issue 3585, pp. 1038-1039 A mixture of cation- and anion-exchange resins, in proportions corresponding to their particular exchange properties and charged with calcium hydroxide, removes seawater salts from solution exchanging calcium hydroxide for the sodium chloride. The regenerant is recoverable. A portion of it may be used again without handling. (END OF ABSTRACT) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 1:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish On the other hand, read these paragraphs, they say that these "softening pillows" release Na ions to replace Ca and Mg ions, and that fish won't appreciate that extra sodium. Won't this Sodium also "hurt" the plants as it resembles putting salt "NaCl sodium chloride" in the water? http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html [Typical home water softeners soften water using a technique known as ``ion exchange''. That is, they remove calcium and magnesium ions by replacing them with sodium ions. Although this does technically make water softer, most fish won't notice the difference. That is, fish that prefer soft water don't like sodium either, and for them such water softeners don't help at all. Thus, home water softeners are not an appropriate way to soften water for aquarium use. Fish stores also market ``water softening pillows''. They use the same ion-exchange principle. One ``recharges'' the pillow by soaking it in a salt water solution, then places it in the tank where the sodium ions are released into the water and replaced by calcium and magnesium ions. After a few hours or days, the pillow (along with the calcium and magnesium) are removed, and the pillow recharged. The pillows sold in stores are too small to work well in practice, and shouldn't be used for the same reason cited above.] End of quote. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Good point! That would work better and then slowly lower the GH and pH of the targeted tank with each small PWC. I missed that since I was replying to the instructions and testimonial and urging any potential users of this product to NOT use it full time in a tank to drastically change things too much, too fast. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Why not use one of those in a bucket of tap water to see how it affects the tap water first, then use that tap water for a PWC to slowly lower the GH (and consequently the pH)? Just a thought. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK. Something else I just thought about, that I've seen advertised but > haven't ever used or even read much about is a product put out by API > called a Water Softener Pillow, which goes in a filter reservoir. From > glancing at the FosterAndSmith page, it works using an ion exchange > resin which can be recharged over and over using a brine water > solution so that's a good thing. > > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+ > 3984+4 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578 > +3984+4> > 048&pcatid=4048 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2 <http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2> > > In case you can't open the site, here's some info from the site... > > * Rechargeable filter media effectively reduces general hardness in > freshwater aquariums > * Reduces aquarium GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and > magnesium > * Use Water Softener Pillow to replicate natural soft water conditions > in the home aquarium > > Achieve ideal general hardness level in your freshwater aquarium. API > Water Softener Pillow effectively reduces GH (general hardness) by > lowering calcium and magnesium. Helps protect sensitive soft water > tropical fish from hard water. Also eliminates white, crusty mineral > deposits on aquarium surfaces. Great for planted aquariums and > aquariums housing angelfish, neon tetras, South American cichlids or > any freshwater fish from soft water environments. Rechargeable resin > may be successfully used multiple times to replicates natural, soft > water conditions in the home aquarium. Safe for delicate tropical > fish. > > Small ready-to-use pouch is for aquariums up to 20 gallons. > > API Water Softening Pillow > Benefits: Scientifically proven to reduce GH (general hardness) by > lowering calcium and magnesium. Also removes heavy metals and reduces > white crusty minerals on aquarium surface. API Water Softener Pillow > can be reused after it is recharged in a salt solution. > When to Use: > When starting or maintaining an aquarium or when testing indicates > water hardness above the desired level. > > Directions for Use: > Rinse pouch under tap water. Place pouch in path of water flow in the > aquarium filter. Activity of the pillow lasts 48 hours. After 48 > hours, recharging is necessary. > > To Recharge: > Dissolve 3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in 7 oz of tap water. Rinse > pouch in tap water, then soak in salt solution for 2 hours. Place back > in filter - there is no need to rinse. When not in use, store Water > Softer Pillow in recharging solution. Do not let pillow dry out. > Replace when Water Softener Pillow ceases to function properly after > recharging. > > Testimonial By: Testimonial: > Karen C > Archer, FL > I bought the product and I have only had to use it twice in my 55 gal > tank to get the water hardness GH down from very hard 300 ppm to soft > 75 ppm. Now, I can gradually lower the pH with the confidence the pH > will be more stable as it is lowered. I was concerned that the salt > used in the refreshing of the pillow would affect the Corys in my > large 125 tank since, I have read Corys cannot tolerate any salt. I > contacted the manufacture of the Water Softening Pillow and asked the > question. I was told salt does not get into the tank water, it is the > salt ions that does the softening. I really like this product! > > > (END SNIP) > > I'm not sure how much it lowers the GH in just 48 hours BUT, based on > that Testimonial, that seems like it could be too much, too fast, so I > would only run it in the tank for an hour or two at a time, then test > the pH and GH and give the fish time to acclimate for a few hours so > their osmoregulatory system can stabilize. Then repeat the process > again. I wouldn't want to lower the pH by more than 0.1 to 0.2 at a > time or even per day so you could use this over a week or so to give > the fish a chance to slowly acclimate down from your 8.4 pH and hard > water to a lower GH and presumably lower pH. > You should also test the KH levels to make sure they are being > maintained to at least 4-7 dH of KH so you do not risk a total pH > crash. > > Once you have your tanks down to where you want them. Then it's just a > matter of using a container to hold some of your tap water before each > PWC and run that through the filter pillow, using an extra filter > system with only the Pillow in it, to lower your tap water down to the > tank's GH and pH levels before doing PWC's from that softened water. > > This system, just like the RO or Peat Moss Tea would require lots of > testing in the beginning but eventually you'll learn how long to run > the tap water through a freshly recharged Pillow so that it's down to > the GH and pH you are looking for and then you could test it to make > sure before doing your PWC. If you accidentally softened it too much, > you could just add a little more tap water to the mix. If you didn't > soften it enough, then you could run the filter a little longer or > just use the water as long as the GH and pH is close enough to your > soft water tanks. > > I'm not sure how many times it can be recharged but based on my own > experience with other rechargeable filter media products (Purigen and > zeolite), they lose some efficiency with each recharge and eventually, > after many recharges, become ineffective and would have to be > replaced. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" > ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. > > NO PEAT FOR ME! > > Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that > tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a > couple of forum threads. > > http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html > <http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html> > > http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b > 932ac4 > <http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37 > b932ac4> > af1b3490 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr <http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr> > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/5735 > 1-maki > <http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/573 > 51-maki> > ng-peat-tea-help.html > > OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly <http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly> > > To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a > more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific > site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? > > The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do > than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of > doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and > the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or > very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap > water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO > filters are not cheap though. > > Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release > tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You > could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then > use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a > consistently lower pH level. > > This fish database search site, > http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search > <http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search> OR > > http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=inde > x_spec > <http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=ind > ex_spec> ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In > the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and > click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out > in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in > those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH > and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you > might want to check that out. > Putting > the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most > part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard > water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that > showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift > Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and > most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the > Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to > do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt > Water fish listed in the search results. > > If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the > four pages of results. > > Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having > your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in > the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make > their water compatible for these fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] > > Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. > > Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do > well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for > sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert > aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your > minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my > tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. > Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! > > Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 > > Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the > fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something > that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say > to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than > the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know > you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if > BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. > I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no > different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. > BUT, > on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of > broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm > thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? > > I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so > bear with me please! > > and .. Thanks! > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach > > You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not > staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term > effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive > versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when > discussing long term success. > While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will > not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for > them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term > effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live > for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans.> Yes, some fish will show negative > effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative > effects right away but instead show long term effects by having > multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. > > I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to > put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from > breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing > us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly > polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe > either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions > and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term > effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although > there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect > some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone > density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), > etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up > with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be > comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one > environment, to live in another type of environment. > > As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing > effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate > level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or > alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when > doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. > Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels > we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated > by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like > yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to > pH and water temperature in more detail. > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html > <http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html> > > http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html > <http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html> > > On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at > various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and > lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas > the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature > is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). > > This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. > > "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and > ammonia > (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of > the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and > higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being > present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia > toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia > can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." > > I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish > stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you > ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as > well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia > Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html.> > These are > suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you > can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are > safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in > the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free > ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off > the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to > alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l > (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like > yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia > problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high > enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please > note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but > NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other > products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert > lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article > where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by > side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test > <http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test> > > Hope this helps. > > Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, > which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to > consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change > things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind > of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page > which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different > tank sizes. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php> > > The above quick reference page has several good articles and also > links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Current water parameters: > Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed > about > 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" > Nitrite: 0 > I don't have ammonia test kit. > GH: 10-16 > KH: 10-15 > pH: 8.4 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47167	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Fungus again?

CB (fancy goldfish) has a small white cotton-looking spot on the dorsal edge of her tail about half way down it's length. I'm searching the archives to see what finally worked for that a year and a half ago, but haven't found it yet. I'd hate to have her lose her gorgeous tail again. From what I can see on online fish disease website pics, it does look more like fungus, but I wouldn't rule out bacteria. Right now, I've had salt in the aquarium for about a week at 2 teaspoons per gallon. It doesn't seem to be helping, but I hesitate to increase the concentration, because CB reacted badly to it last time and, also, because she(he?) is a little piggy and is already fighting the fat pads on her tumtum that occasionally want her to float upside down. I'm trying to limit her food, but sometimes she steals the other's before they can get it. Ammonia: 0ppm Nitrites: 0ppm Nitrates: 40ppm (yes, it's time for a PWC) pH: 6.5 GH: 0ppm KH: ~140ppm DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47168	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters

Eyes rolling - then our marineland stealth heaters are really tetra? Sigh. OK, now where do we go for actual reliable heaters? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters Nope. They sold out to Tetra... which is just as bad... and maybe even worse, since not everything from China is bad. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters Well, I got a 10 watt for my little 2 gallon, same brand, a month ago, and it variously woudln't work and heated teh tank to 86, and it's preset to 78. I wondered if that model wasn't reliable and that's why they appear to have discontinued it. Marineland and Stealth - same thing? have always been reliable. I don't know; maybe they suddenly sold out to China? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Palermo" <skywavebe@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters Hello Group, I bought a new Stealth 250 heater for one of my tanks and have had no heating from it and all I get from Marineland is to let it sit in the water for 24 hours. Is it just me or is this company a joke? Sam in Chicago ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47169	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters

Hello:    Marineland is a great company.  I've used their products for years.  If it doesn't go on it could be the water is the temp you're set at or higher or...the heater doesn't work in which case I would take it back to where you got it and trade for another. they can return it to the distributor as defective.    good luck!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 11:30:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters   Hello Group, I bought a new Stealth 250 heater for one of my tanks and have had no heating from it and all I get from Marineland is to let it sit in the water for 24 hours. Is it just me or is this company a joke? Sam in Chicago [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47170	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters

Marineland WAS a great company. See my previous post. Marineland is but a shell of what it was just five years ago when they lost so much of their talent after they were acquired by a large conglomerate. It's owned by a conglomerate called Spectrum Brands but United Pet Group and Spectrum Brands filed for bankruptcy last year. Here is Spectrum Brands Wikipedia page for more info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_Brands You can Google 'United Pet Group Bankruptcy' for more specifics. Here is Marineland's "Four Decades Of Innovation" page http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/Heritage/default.aspx?id=1912 but you'll notice that their innovation stopped in 2005 when they merged with Spectrum Brands and that is when their Chief Science Officer, Dr. Tim Hovanec, left them and he now owns the former Marineland science and laboratory building in Moorpark, CA... formerly the headquarters of Marineland... where he now runs http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com I hope they come back to being a great company once again but they probably won't as long as they are owned by a large conglomerate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 4:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters      Hello:    Marineland is a great company.  I've used their products for years.  If it doesn't go on it could be the water is the temp you're set at or higher or...the heater doesn't work in which case I would take it back to where you got it and trade for another. they can return it to the distributor as defective.    good luck!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 11:30:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters   Hello Group, I bought a new Stealth 250 heater for one of my tanks and have had no heating from it and all I get from Marineland is to let it sit in the water for 24 hours. Is it just me or is this company a joke? Sam in Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47171	From: melinda spicer	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! Fire-Belly Toads

Do they mate like ACFs do? One was hugging the other and croaking. So I guess I know which is a boy and which is a girl.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47172	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! Fire-Belly Toads

Or they could be practicing "Don't ask, don't tell". LOL For most frogs/toads, the male is usually much smaller than the female. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melinda spicer Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:58 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! Fire-Belly Toads Do they mate like ACFs do? One was hugging the other and croaking. So I guess I know which is a boy and which is a girl.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47173	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Stealth heaters

We know. Problem is that tehy were sold out to the company that makes cheap heaters that don't work, and we're suddenly having problems with their heaters. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "john Lewis" <creatureproductions@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters Hello: Marineland is a great company. I've used their products for years. If it doesn't go on it could be the water is the temp you're set at or higher or...the heater doesn't work in which case I would take it back to where you got it and trade for another. they can return it to the distributor as defective. good luck!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Sam Palermo <skywavebe@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 11:30:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Stealth heaters Hello Group, I bought a new Stealth 250 heater for one of my tanks and have had no heating from it and all I get from Marineland is to let it sit in the water for 24 hours. Is it just me or is this company a joke? Sam in Chicago [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47174	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hello! Fire-Belly Toads

Yep, that would be the boy.  They sometimes get frisky after a good feeding but it doesn't always leasd to egglaying (though it is season for them).  I wouldn't expect it this early after you got them but you never know.  Keep an eye on them.  they lay the eggs in large jelly-like clusters.   Good Luck!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: melinda spicer <melindaspicer@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 6:57:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hello! Fire-Belly Toads   Do they mate like ACFs do? One was hugging the other and croaking. So I guess I know which is a boy and which is a girl. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?

Is it definitely fuzzy/cottony? Could it be a waxy looking polyp or cyst looking thing? If it's definitely fuzzy/cotton, then if the salt isn't working, you'll need to up the ante of medications. What anti-fungal medications do you have on hand? What anti-bacterial medications do you have on hand? Here's your old thread, "Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?", from December 2008... but it's kind of convoluted because you started your thread within another thread's topic, instead of as a new topic. http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/33969 Here's the last post in the thread so you could work back from here. http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/34312 If you read down through this message, you'll see the previous reply messages as part of the long post which should give you the info you are looking for BUT, here is a snip of one of Ray's replies that will probably give you the info you are looking for... > > I do see references made to "white stuff" on the fish and more > > recently, "cottony stuff" on the caudal and dorsal bases on both CB > > and Raven -- which to me strongly indicates the manifestation of > > Fungus on these fish. If Columnaris is involved, and mouth "fungus" > > as one of these forms can take on this appearance when first > > starting, I haven't seen anything pointing towards that -- except > > for "white stuff," but bodily Columnaris is rarely that localized -- > > any whiteness as a result of this disease would be more generally > > spread. Its the "cottony" appearance that pinpoints it right back to > > Fungus when associated with localized areas. > > > > Fortunately, these terrific medications (Nitrofurazone and > > Furadolizone) cover all bases and are greatly anti-fungal as well as > > being great broad-spectrum anti-biotics. Aside only from Triple- > > Sulfa (a primarily gram-negative antibiotic), I know of no better > > medication for treating Columnaris, even though Oxytetracycline > would > > be as equal, and at the same pH and hardness values -- up to pH 8.0 > > in hard water. But, these two medications (Triple-Sulfa and > > Oxytetracycline) are not without their drawbacks of eradicating > your > > nitrifying bacteria. I won't rule out Oxolinic Acid as a good > > treatment against Columnaris either. Note; if the pH is over 8.0, > > you want to go to Triple-Sulfa, if the water is high in calcium and > > magnesium (which it often accompanies), Nitrofurans lose their > > potency above pH 8.0 as they bind up with these elements. > > > > For strictly fungal infections, while the two afore-mentioned > > medications will act on this, the two 'zones' (Nitrofurazone and > > Furadolizone) in combination are more effective than either one of > > these -- and not being directly derived from bacteria culturing as a > > product of them (as are many of the meds in the > Penacyllin/Kanamycin, > > etc. families) they are said not to interfere with the nitrifying > > bacteria cultures. Ray > > (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus again? CB (fancy goldfish) has a small white cotton-looking spot on the dorsal edge of her tail about half way down it's length. I'm searching the archives to see what finally worked for that a year and a half ago, but haven't found it yet. I'd hate to have her lose her gorgeous tail again. From what I can see on online fish disease website pics, it does look more like fungus, but I wouldn't rule out bacteria. Right now, I've had salt in the aquarium for about a week at 2 teaspoons per gallon. It doesn't seem to be helping, but I hesitate to increase the concentration, because CB reacted badly to it last time and, also, because she(he?) is a little piggy and is already fighting the fat pads on her tumtum that occasionally want her to float upside down. I'm trying to limit her food, but sometimes she steals the other's before they can get it. Ammonia: 0ppm Nitrites: 0ppm Nitrates: 40ppm (yes, it's time for a PWC) pH: 6.5 GH: 0ppm KH: ~140ppm DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47176	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Noura, Actually, I wondered as I wrote that, if you would be familiar with the idiom. It means "in your area". That is a universal problem when you learn a language not your own. Unless you are around native speakers quite a bit, you do not learn the various idiomatic expressions and slang in common use, or, at least, known, by the native speaker. I presume that your language is Arabic, and, if I were to learn that language, I would be at the same disadvantage with those who natively speak it. At least you are not too embarrassed to ask the meaning of something you do not understand. If there were an easy and permanent way to alter pH and maintain it at a certain level, we would not keep harping on the point of NOT trying to adjust the pH because, especially the way you wish to go. To lower the pH, you need to neutralize some of the buffer that is keeping the pH where it is. Neutralize or remove too much of the buffer, and you suffer a pH crash, where the pH of the water rushes to a very low level. No living aquatic animal or plant can handle a rapid drop in pH because they simply do not have the time to adjust to the lowering pH. Even if the reduction in pH was done slowly, some animals will not survive below a certain pH. They may not die right away, but they would show signs of distress, and die much sooner than they would otherwise, given all other things are equal. No matter how you approach the solution, it is going to require time, perhaps more money than you would like to spend, and time. Even at that, you may not be successful at maintaining the pH you would like. As far as driftwood goes, a piece placed in water similar to your tank water will give you a clue as to its propensity to release tannins, judged by discoloration of the water by it compared to clear water as it was before the driftwood was added. The only real way to test is to clean the sucker up, dry it out again, and stick it into your tank. It is a slow process. Acidification of the water is a natural byproduct of the nitrogen cycle. Insufficient water changes will allow the water to gradually turn acidic.. Sufficient water changes will keep this process in check.. Maybe, one of these days, I'll be sufficiently inspired, moved, or trying to avoid real work to write up a post explaining this fairly ignored part of the cycle. The speed at which this happens (the water becoming acidic) will depend on your maintenance of the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] What does "neck of the woods" mean? you know I'm not an English native speaker. :) and , you're totally right about playing with the pH, and that's what I tried to avoid when I inquired about easy and permanent methods of lowering the pH. How do you know if a certain piece of wood will release Tannins or not? would putting it in a bucket for a week or so and test the pH before and after work? About that nitrogen cycle, since it's happeing ALL THE TIME in a cycled tank, how will it change my pH anyway? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Noura, There are many kinds of wood used for aquarium decoration, some will add tannins to the water at a much faster or slower rate than others, and some may not release tannins at all. The nitrogen cycle will lower your pH faster than most driftwood. As others have mentioned, it can be dangerous to play with your pH. As the buffering capability of the water is neutralized by whatever your choice is, you get closer to that area where the pH can collapse, which, of course, will cause you problems big time. There are quite a few smaller fish that will do well in a high pH like yours. In your neck of the woods there is a killie that will do well in your water. I cannot remember its name for the life of me. As Amber has mentioned, nearly all the livebearers like hard, alkaline water. They come in all sizes, and some have interesting color, some have interesting behaviors, and some are just plain weird. You'll need to do your research both to determine if a fish is right for your situation, and, probably more important, available to you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47177	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/9/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

\\Steve//, See my reply to Noura. You never answered those age-old questions about bears or trees in the woods. ;-) Inquiring minds want to know! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Noura, Actually, I wondered as I wrote that, if you would be familiar with the idiom. It means "in your area". That is a universal problem when you learn a language not your own. Unless you are around native speakers quite a bit, you do not learn the various idiomatic expressions and slang in common use, or, at least, known, by the native speaker. I presume that your language is Arabic, and, if I were to learn that language, I would be at the same disadvantage with those who natively speak it. At least you are not too embarrassed to ask the meaning of something you do not understand. If there were an easy and permanent way to alter pH and maintain it at a certain level, we would not keep harping on the point of NOT trying to adjust the pH because, especially the way you wish to go. To lower the pH, you need to neutralize some of the buffer that is keeping the pH where it is. Neutralize or remove too much of the buffer, and you suffer a pH crash, where the pH of the water rushes to a very low level. No living aquatic animal or plant can handle a rapid drop in pH because they simply do not have the time to adjust to the lowering pH. Even if the reduction in pH was done slowly, some animals will not survive below a certain pH. They may not die right away, but they would show signs of distress, and die much sooner than they would otherwise, given all other things are equal. No matter how you approach the solution, it is going to require time, perhaps more money than you would like to spend, and time. Even at that, you may not be successful at maintaining the pH you would like. As far as driftwood goes, a piece placed in water similar to your tank water will give you a clue as to its propensity to release tannins, judged by discoloration of the water by it compared to clear water as it was before the driftwood was added. The only real way to test is to clean the sucker up, dry it out again, and stick it into your tank. It is a slow process. Acidification of the water is a natural byproduct of the nitrogen cycle. Insufficient water changes will allow the water to gradually turn acidic.. Sufficient water changes will keep this process in check.. Maybe, one of these days, I'll be sufficiently inspired, moved, or trying to avoid real work to write up a post explaining this fairly ignored part of the cycle. The speed at which this happens (the water becoming acidic) will depend on your maintenance of the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] What does "neck of the woods" mean? you know I'm not an English native speaker. :) and , you're totally right about playing with the pH, and that's what I tried to avoid when I inquired about easy and permanent methods of lowering the pH. How do you know if a certain piece of wood will release Tannins or not? would putting it in a bucket for a week or so and test the pH before and after work? About that nitrogen cycle, since it's happeing ALL THE TIME in a cycled tank, how will it change my pH anyway? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Noura, There are many kinds of wood used for aquarium decoration, some will add tannins to the water at a much faster or slower rate than others, and some may not release tannins at all. The nitrogen cycle will lower your pH faster than most driftwood. As others have mentioned, it can be dangerous to play with your pH. As the buffering capability of the water is neutralized by whatever your choice is, you get closer to that area where the pH can collapse, which, of course, will cause you problems big time. There are quite a few smaller fish that will do well in a high pH like yours. In your neck of the woods there is a killie that will do well in your water. I cannot remember its name for the life of me. As Amber has mentioned, nearly all the livebearers like hard, alkaline water. They come in all sizes, and some have interesting color, some have interesting behaviors, and some are just plain weird. You'll need to do your research both to determine if a fish is right for your situation, and, probably more important, available to you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47178	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach]

Lenny, I have not lived in the woods for far too long. Rhetorical questions really do not need to be answered. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] \\Steve//, See my reply to Noura. You never answered those age-old questions about bears or trees in the woods. ;-) Inquiring minds want to know! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Noura, Actually, I wondered as I wrote that, if you would be familiar with the idiom. It means "in your area". That is a universal problem when you learn a language not your own. Unless you are around native speakers quite a bit, you do not learn the various idiomatic expressions and slang in common use, or, at least, known, by the native speaker. I presume that your language is Arabic, and, if I were to learn that language, I would be at the same disadvantage with those who natively speak it. At least you are not too embarrassed to ask the meaning of something you do not understand. If there were an easy and permanent way to alter pH and maintain it at a certain level, we would not keep harping on the point of NOT trying to adjust the pH because, especially the way you wish to go. To lower the pH, you need to neutralize some of the buffer that is keeping the pH where it is. Neutralize or remove too much of the buffer, and you suffer a pH crash, where the pH of the water rushes to a very low level. No living aquatic animal or plant can handle a rapid drop in pH because they simply do not have the time to adjust to the lowering pH. Even if the reduction in pH was done slowly, some animals will not survive below a certain pH. They may not die right away, but they would show signs of distress, and die much sooner than they would otherwise, given all other things are equal. No matter how you approach the solution, it is going to require time, perhaps more money than you would like to spend, and time. Even at that, you may not be successful at maintaining the pH you would like. As far as driftwood goes, a piece placed in water similar to your tank water will give you a clue as to its propensity to release tannins, judged by discoloration of the water by it compared to clear water as it was before the driftwood was added. The only real way to test is to clean the sucker up, dry it out again, and stick it into your tank. It is a slow process. Acidification of the water is a natural byproduct of the nitrogen cycle. Insufficient water changes will allow the water to gradually turn acidic.. Sufficient water changes will keep this process in check.. Maybe, one of these days, I'll be sufficiently inspired, moved, or trying to avoid real work to write up a post explaining this fairly ignored part of the cycle. The speed at which this happens (the water becoming acidic) will depend on your maintenance of the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] What does "neck of the woods" mean? you know I'm not an English native speaker. :) and , you're totally right about playing with the pH, and that's what I tried to avoid when I inquired about easy and permanent methods of lowering the pH. How do you know if a certain piece of wood will release Tannins or not? would putting it in a bucket for a week or so and test the pH before and after work? About that nitrogen cycle, since it's happeing ALL THE TIME in a cycled tank, how will it change my pH anyway? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Noura, There are many kinds of wood used for aquarium decoration, some will add tannins to the water at a much faster or slower rate than others, and some may not release tannins at all. The nitrogen cycle will lower your pH faster than most driftwood. As others have mentioned, it can be dangerous to play with your pH. As the buffering capability of the water is neutralized by whatever your choice is, you get closer to that area where the pH can collapse, which, of course, will cause you problems big time. There are quite a few smaller fish that will do well in a high pH like yours. In your neck of the woods there is a killie that will do well in your water. I cannot remember its name for the life of me. As Amber has mentioned, nearly all the livebearers like hard, alkaline water. They come in all sizes, and some have interesting color, some have interesting behaviors, and some are just plain weird. You'll need to do your research both to determine if a fish is right for your situation, and, probably more important, available to you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47179	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

Noura, There is no guarantee that the ph will be lowered as hardness is reduced, just as hard water may not have a higher pH than soft water. Often enough hard water has a high pH and soft water has a low pH to make the statement that pH is dependent on hardness, but, as with most rules" there are exceptions. Again, blowing through this stuff quickly, without looking things up, but I do recall that there is a lake in Africa that has hard water, but the pH is acidic. I believe its name starts with an "N". \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish one more thing.. when the water softens, does the pH go down with it too? why? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I love it! looks easy and affordable, I'm interested in softening the water a little even if not accompanied with pH decrease, because plants in general don't thrive in my tanks, I guess due to the hardness. But I didn't understand how long will one package last in a 20G. and when you "wash" it to recharge do you use just salty water prepared at home, or a special salt water solution? I understood the purpose of first using the "pillow" for replacing water in pwc's only, but eventually you'll put the pillow in the tank, right? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] OK. Something else I just thought about, that I've seen advertised but haven't ever used or even read much about is a product put out by API called a Water Softener Pillow, which goes in a filter reservoir. From glancing at the FosterAndSmith page, it works using an ion exchange resin which can be recharged over and over using a brine water solution so that's a good thing. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3984+4 048&pcatid=4048 OR http://tinyurl.com/yjfw7n2 In case you can't open the site, here's some info from the site... * Rechargeable filter media effectively reduces general hardness in freshwater aquariums * Reduces aquarium GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium * Use Water Softener Pillow to replicate natural soft water conditions in the home aquarium Achieve ideal general hardness level in your freshwater aquarium. API Water Softener Pillow effectively reduces GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Helps protect sensitive soft water tropical fish from hard water. Also eliminates white, crusty mineral deposits on aquarium surfaces. Great for planted aquariums and aquariums housing angelfish, neon tetras, South American cichlids or any freshwater fish from soft water environments. Rechargeable resin may be successfully used multiple times to replicates natural, soft water conditions in the home aquarium. Safe for delicate tropical fish. Small ready-to-use pouch is for aquariums up to 20 gallons. API Water Softening Pillow Benefits: Scientifically proven to reduce GH (general hardness) by lowering calcium and magnesium. Also removes heavy metals and reduces white crusty minerals on aquarium surface. API Water Softener Pillow can be reused after it is recharged in a salt solution. When to Use: When starting or maintaining an aquarium or when testing indicates water hardness above the desired level. Directions for Use: Rinse pouch under tap water. Place pouch in path of water flow in the aquarium filter. Activity of the pillow lasts 48 hours. After 48 hours, recharging is necessary. To Recharge: Dissolve 3 tablespoon of aquarium salt in 7 oz of tap water. Rinse pouch in tap water, then soak in salt solution for 2 hours. Place back in filter - there is no need to rinse. When not in use, store Water Softer Pillow in recharging solution. Do not let pillow dry out. Replace when Water Softener Pillow ceases to function properly after recharging. Testimonial By: Testimonial: Karen C Archer, FL I bought the product and I have only had to use it twice in my 55 gal tank to get the water hardness GH down from very hard 300 ppm to soft 75 ppm. Now, I can gradually lower the pH with the confidence the pH will be more stable as it is lowered. I was concerned that the salt used in the refreshing of the pillow would affect the Corys in my large 125 tank since, I have read Corys cannot tolerate any salt. I contacted the manufacture of the Water Softening Pillow and asked the question. I was told salt does not get into the tank water, it is the salt ions that does the softening. I really like this product! (END SNIP) I'm not sure how much it lowers the GH in just 48 hours BUT, based on that Testimonial, that seems like it could be too much, too fast, so I would only run it in the tank for an hour or two at a time, then test the pH and GH and give the fish time to acclimate for a few hours so their osmoregulatory system can stabilize. Then repeat the process again. I wouldn't want to lower the pH by more than 0.1 to 0.2 at a time or even per day so you could use this over a week or so to give the fish a chance to slowly acclimate down from your 8.4 pH and hard water to a lower GH and presumably lower pH. You should also test the KH levels to make sure they are being maintained to at least 4-7 dH of KH so you do not risk a total pH crash. Once you have your tanks down to where you want them. Then it's just a matter of using a container to hold some of your tap water before each PWC and run that through the filter pillow, using an extra filter system with only the Pillow in it, to lower your tap water down to the tank's GH and pH levels before doing PWC's from that softened water. This system, just like the RO or Peat Moss Tea would require lots of testing in the beginning but eventually you'll learn how long to run the tap water through a freshly recharged Pillow so that it's down to the GH and pH you are looking for and then you could test it to make sure before doing your PWC. If you accidentally softened it too much, you could just add a little more tap water to the mix. If you didn't soften it enough, then you could run the filter a little longer or just use the water as long as the GH and pH is close enough to your soft water tanks. I'm not sure how many times it can be recharged but based on my own experience with other rechargeable filter media products (Purigen and zeolite), they lose some efficiency with each recharge and eventually, after many recharges, become ineffective and would have to be replaced. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Good Lord! That 's not what I meant by asking about "permanent" and "easy" ways to lower the pH! That's too delicate and even hard to do. NO PEAT FOR ME! Please suggest only doable and "permanent" methods that stay in that tank and don't need to check and measure and prepare all the time. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:21 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] There are many ways to make Peat Moss Tea. Here's an article and a couple of forum threads. http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=18416&sid=58ea6734a934c3a37b932ac4 af1b3490 OR http://tinyurl.com/yl44mkr http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57351-maki ng-peat-tea-help.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ykhqdly To remove the tea coloring from your tank, you can run carbon or a more advanced chemical filtration media like Purigen. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] I haven't heard of "Peat Moss tea" before. Is there a specific site/page that you found best for comprehensive information on making and using it? The website you mentioned is opening here. Thanks. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Bringing down and keeping down the pH is a LOT harder to safely do than raising the pH. I guess the simplest and most assured way of doing it would be with using a mix of RO (Reverse Osmosis) water and the tap water. The RO water would have around a neutral pH and no or very little GH or other chemical levels. Then mixing this with the tap water, it would dilute things based on the percentage of mix. RO filters are not cheap though. Other things that can be done is using driftwood, which will release tannins which are acidic and will lower the pH but not the GH. You could also make Peat Moss tea (big garbage cans at a time) and then use a mix of that Peat Moss tea and your tap water to have a consistently lower pH level. This fish database search site, http://tinyurl.com/FishGeeks-Database-Search OR http://www.aquaria.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=database&file=index_spec ies can be used to find fish that like your 8.4 pH water. In the Advanced Search section, simply type in 8.4 in the pH field and click the search button. Of course, not all of the fish would work out in your 20G and 28G tanks... like the Goldfish would not work out in those smaller tanks. Only one page of hits came up using the 8.4 pH and the 10 GH but using just 8.4 pH, four pages of hits came up so you might want to check that out. Putting the 10 GH probably limited the search results too much. For the most part, any water with a pH of 8.4 is usually going to be very hard water although there are probably exceptions. Most of the fish that showed up in the search results were cichlids... and probably Rift Lake Cichlids... but there were some fish like Gobies and Puffers and most livebearers, not just guppies prefer harder water. Many of the Gobies and Puffers would also need brackish water but that's easier to do with your already hard water. I also noticed some obvious Salt Water fish listed in the search results. If you can't use the site, let me know and I'll copy paste all of the four pages of results. Just so you know, there are probably some people drooling over having your kind of water since these Rift Lake Cichlids are very popular in the hobby and most people have to go through all kinds of work to make their water compatible for these fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish [was:Clown Loach] Lenny, thanks for the very helpful and comprehensive post. Is there any other fish species that fit in 20G and 28G tanks and do well in a hard alkaline water? I will do a thorough research later for sure, but I'm counting on your experiences (all of you -expert aquarists- in this group) to suggest a few examples that come to your minds, I don't want to have only African Cichlids and guppies in my tanks. I was thinking of.. let's say.. Discus, for the future? naaa.. just KIDDING! Keep in mind these parameters, pH 8.2 - 8.4, GH 10-16 Another question comes to my mind, I know it's better to change the fish to suit your water, not the opposite, but if there's something that can be added permanently to the tank to lower the pH, let's say to the 7.8 -8 level, so the water will be about 5 times less hard than the original 8.4 pH. then why not? so is there such additions? I know you can RAISE you pH by adding crushed corals and lime stones, so if BRINGING DOWN the pH is as easy, I would like to give it a try. I already have a piece of driftwood in the 20G, but the pH there is no different than the pH in the 6G guppy tank where there isn't driftwood. BUT, on the other hand, the 20 gallon's gravel contains a percentage of broken (not totally crushed) sea shells, while the 6 G doesn't. So I'm thinking, maybe the driftwood just lowered the pH that was raised by the shells? I know that I'm asking you guys to do a lot of head scratching. so bear with me please! and .. Thanks! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Clown Loach You can't compare the fish at the LFS since they presumably are not staying at the fish store very long so you never see the long term effects of keeping them in water which they do not thrive. Thrive versus live would be the comparative terms to keep in mind when discussing long term success. While the fish may seem to acclimate and live in the water, they will not usually thrive unless the water is the best kind of water for them. Even living a couple of years isn't enough time to see long term effects for fish, like your Clown Loaches, that are supposed to live for over 20 years http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans. Yes, some fish will show negative effects right away whereas other fish may not show any negative effects right away but instead show long term effects by having multiple health issues and a shortened lifespan. I'm trying to think of an analogy for land animals (and us humans), to put things in perspective, and I guess it would be like taking us from breathing and thriving in our normal air and environment and removing us to where we are breathing a different air-mix (maybe even slightly polluted air) and feeling different pressures on our bodies... maybe either living under water or in space without optimal air conditions and drinking recycled water and breathing recycled air. Short term effects might be minimal (breathing issues, nausea, etc.) although there are instances where even short term conditions adversely affect some people a LOT more than others... but long term effects cause bone density issues, lung disease (presuming the air is slightly polluted), etc., so while we might live, we probably do not thrive and end up with other health issues and a shorter lifespan. This would be comparable to forcing a fish, that normally thrives in one environment, to live in another type of environment. As far as the ammonia, it's probably not an issue since you are seeing effects of the nitrogen cycle with a constantly climbing nitrate level, controlled by PWC's and live plants, but without such a test or alert monitor, even the slightest mistake on your part, like when doing filter maintenance, can cause catastrophic issues for your fish. Even a slight ammonia level of only 0.25ppm (one of the lowest levels we can test for with our kits) to 0.5ppm, which might easily tolerated by fish at lower pH levels, becomes toxic at higher pH levels like yours. These two websites explain ammonia toxicity, as it relates to pH and water temperature in more detail. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html On the second link, the first chart compares the same ammonia level at various temperatures and pH levels and how at the lower pH levels and lower water temperatures, the ammonia percentage is only 0.13% whereas the same ammonia level at the higher pH and higher water temperature is 20.3% (nearly 200 times more toxic). This first paragraph, from the first link, puts it in better perspective. "Ammonia comes in two forms Ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic and ammonia (NH3) which is toxic. Both pH and water temperature affect how much of the toxic form of ammonia is present in your water. Higher pH and higher temp result in a higher proportion of the total ammonia being present in its toxic form (NH3). pH has the largest effect on ammonia toxicity. So if you have low pH and low temps, higher total ammonia can be present without it being as toxic as at higher pH and temps." I believe you have a friend outside of Syria that can send you fish stuff from time to time.. or maybe your LFS will get these in if you ask, since they would be good for many of his/her other customers as well. If so, try to get them to get you a bunch of the SeaChem Ammonia Alerts http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html. These are suction cup mounted little plastic cards that go in the tank where you can easily see the color card and know that your ammonia levels are safe at all times. They last over a year and are fairly low priced in the USA. They do not give you actual numbers and only test free ammonia so they take into effect the various pH levels when giving off the color alerts and they are fairly sensitive and change colors to alert you to as little as 0.02 mg/l (ppm) of free ammonia. For folks with really high pH water, like yours, I suggest these alerts to give early warning of ammonia problems where otherwise they wouldn't know until the levels are high enough to adversely affect the fish, which could be too late. Please note that other companies also make ammonia alert type products but NONE of them are nearly as good as the SeaChem product. The other products only last 4-6 weeks each where the SeaChem Ammonia Alert lasts for over a year at a comparable price. I have a blog article where I compared the SeaChem and the Mardel ammonia alerts side by side. http://tinyurl.com/Ammonia-Alert-Test Hope this helps. Your water parameters are more ideal for African Rift Lake Cichlids, which I believe you just started keeping anyhow so you might want to consider moving all of your tanks towards these species as you change things around in the future. A good place to start, to see what kind of fish set-ups you can have in your various tanks, is this next page which gives many "cookie-cutter" suggestions for stocking of different tank sizes. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/quick_reference_list.php The above quick reference page has several good articles and also links to the various cookie-cutter set-ups for different sized tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Current water parameters: Nitrates : between 10 and 25, closer to 25 "The last PWC was performed about 3 days ago, and the one before it about a week ago" Nitrite: 0 I don't have ammonia test kit. GH: 10-16 KH: 10-15 pH: 8.4

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47180	From: hamrad45	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in the mouth? Thanks for your time, Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47181	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

Most stuff that doesn't break down in water (slowly or fast) is safe to use in an aquarium as long as it has been properly disintected. Since legos are plastic you cannot boil them or wash them in the dishwasher on sanitary mode (they would probably melt, but not sure if the dishwasher gets hot enough, boiling will most likely melt them though). You could use a bleach dip (something similar to what people do with new plants to disinfect them), you could even let it soak longer than plants do just to be safe if you wanted to. I'm not sure I'd want to look at legos in my aquarium though, LOL. You can also use aquarium silicone and boil nice looking river stones/rocks and then glue them together in a nice pile so there are nooks and crannys for smaller fish. That way the silicone would hold it all together but it's prettier to look at than lego blocks ;) Amber hamrad45 wrote: > > I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the > fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and > even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was > wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be > safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in > the mouth? > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47182	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

I forgot to say that anything siliconed together would have to sit and wait for the silicone to harden, I forget off the top of my head how long that takes but I know it's awhile (overnight at least I think, maybe 24 hours to cure?). So if you want something quicker you could use the legos, I just wanted to give you another option in case you didn't want to look at legos every day (inside the aquarium sure is safer than the floor though, right? LOL). Amber hamrad45 wrote: > > I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the > fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and > even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was > wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be > safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in > the mouth? > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47183	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

Cons: The pointy corners could cause injuries. You may have issues with trying to get the air out of all of the pieces. As algae grows all over it, it will no longer be the colorful object that you built. It would probably look cheesy after a while since most aquarists start off with buying the fake colored plastic plants, castle, sunken ship, bubbling treasure chest or alligator mouth, mermaid and fluorescent gravel, but then as they learn more about their hobby and see "natural" looking tanks, they realize that they really want their aquarium to look more natural and switch over to pea gravel or other natural substrate, live plants, driftwood, natural rocks, etc.. Pros... if there are any to be found... lol http://de-classic-space.com/photo/fish/DSC07473es.jpg http://www.divermag.com/online/articles/80/1/A-Picture-Speaks-a-Thousand-Wor ds/Page1.html OR http://tinyurl.com/yfqapuo http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38697&st=0 http://blog.bigbeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lego4.jpg And, while they are probably safe as far as chemical leaching issues, I'm not so sure of your comment about them being safe for kids to put in their mouths.... there are MANY instances of kids choking on Lego blocks... but of course, it's one of them things in life that help decide who wins the next Darwy... my name for a Darwin Award, "Honoring those who improve the species...by accidentally removing themselves from it!"... of course, it's not the kids who should be punished. http://www.darwinawards.com/ (Plenty of stories of real-life mishaps that helped cleanse the gene pool). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hamrad45 Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in the mouth? Thanks for your time, Tom

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47184	From: Noura	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

I believe you should also "soak" the siliconed work for a day or so after allowing it to harden and before putting in in the tank, someone told me it will leach some toxins or acidic stuff that will affect your tank water. I'm not sure, but better safe than sorry! Besides, what are you planning to do to keep the lego structures from floating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I forgot to say that anything siliconed together would have to sit and wait for the silicone to harden, I forget off the top of my head how long that takes but I know it's awhile (overnight at least I think, maybe 24 hours to cure?). So if you want something quicker you could use the legos, I just wanted to give you another option in case you didn't want to look at legos every day (inside the aquarium sure is safer than the floor though, right? LOL). Amber hamrad45 wrote: > > I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the > fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and > even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was > wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be > safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in > the mouth? > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47185	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

Wow - what an idea! I might give that one a try. Atleast for Ebenezer the Fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? >I forgot to say that anything siliconed together would have to sit and > wait for the silicone to harden, I forget off the top of my head how > long that takes but I know it's awhile (overnight at least I think, > maybe 24 hours to cure?). So if you want something quicker you could use > the legos, I just wanted to give you another option in case you didn't > want to look at legos every day (inside the aquarium sure is safer than > the floor though, right? LOL). > > Amber > > hamrad45 wrote: >> >> I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the >> fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and >> even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was >> wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be >> safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in >> the mouth? >> >> Thanks for your time, >> >> Tom >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47186	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

Just make sure those nice lokoing river rocks aren't limestone. You can test it with acid toilet bowl cleaner; carbonate rocks will fizz. All the rocks around here are limestone. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? > Most stuff that doesn't break down in water (slowly or fast) is safe to > use in an aquarium as long as it has been properly disintected. Since > legos are plastic you cannot boil them or wash them in the dishwasher on > sanitary mode (they would probably melt, but not sure if the dishwasher > gets hot enough, boiling will most likely melt them though). You could > use a bleach dip (something similar to what people do with new plants to > disinfect them), you could even let it soak longer than plants do just > to be safe if you wanted to. > I'm not sure I'd want to look at legos in my aquarium though, LOL. You > can also use aquarium silicone and boil nice looking river stones/rocks > and then glue them together in a nice pile so there are nooks and > crannys for smaller fish. That way the silicone would hold it all > together but it's prettier to look at than lego blocks ;) > > Amber > > hamrad45 wrote: >> >> I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the >> fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and >> even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was >> wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be >> safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in >> the mouth? >> >> Thanks for your time, >> >> Tom >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47187	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms/Dearest GoldLenny

Hello GoldLenny, Thank you so much for your great advice. Unfortunately, after asking my expert family member, I realized I was treating my poor beloved goldfish for nothing more than "regular poop". He died shortly after my post to you. I have since replaced 'him' as my tank was just not complete anymore. I do thank you for your advice on PraziPro as I have written it down for future reference if needed. I am working on my last of three tank to keep it away from my cat. Thanks for your help. Joanie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, your other fish could be infested so you need to keep an eye on them. > If you can get some PraziPro from Hikari, you could safely treat your entire > tank and that will kill off internal worms, flukes, etc. Buy the smallest > bottle you can since you only need a little bit to treat a lot of water. > It's the same medicine they use for de-worming cats and dogs. It's very > safe and it's one of the only medications that I use for pre-treating ALL of > my newly purchased fish while they are in quarantine... which is something > all fish keepers should do (quarantine) any newly purchased fish for several > weeks before adding them to our main tanks. > > I'm not sure how effective a salt bath is going to be on internal worms, > although adding salt to the main tank at 1 teaspoon per gallon (slowly > raised to that level in 1/3rd doses over 24 hours) will help to kill off any > free swimming worms that might get pooped out... but if you get the > PraziPro, the salt would not be needed and the PraziPro is much easier on > the fish than salt. You were wise to NOT buy aquarium salt since it's just > a BIG rip-off. It's the same thing as plain table salt... NaCl... Sodium > Chloride. It's a shame that pet stores even sell the stuff to customers > when they could have boxes of Kosher salt, Morton's or even Generic on the > shelf next to the so-called Aquarium Salt to inform their customers of this > rip-off.. or just not even carry the so-called Aquarium Salt products. > > I'm not sure if worms that live in goldfish are transferrable to your cat. > Most pathogens from one Family in the animal kingdom usually are not a > pathogen to another Family but there are some that cross over. It would > depend on the exact species of worm but you may want to check with your vet > about doing a preventive worm treatment. > > You should also keep a cover on your tank to prevent the fish from drinking > out of the tank in the future, for it's own safety and to minimize stress on > the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms > > I sort of recently, a few weeks, added a new goldfish to my others. > > It has been with my other 4 very cheap feeder, but absolutely loved > goldfish. > > I noticed something hanging out of it's rear a few days ago. > > I researched and believe it to be nematoda. > > Since then I have given it regular salt baths, two on two different days. I > used 4 tsp of table salt to one gallon of water as per About.com. I was not > able to get out to get aquarium salt at the store. > > I am aware that some are released during the salt baths. > I had put the fish back in the tank with the others. > > However, I gave it it's 3rd bath today for about 20 minutes and have > isolated it a fish bowl for now. > > 1) How do I save this fish? Can it be returned. > 2) How do I know if my other fish are infected. What should I do? > 3) My darn cat sometimes likes to drink the goldfish water. I am trying ways > to stop her. Can she be infected? > > Thanks for your help. > Joanie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47188	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

I have had lego’s in my aquarium (accidentally, but they ended up being in there for a long time), they are safe. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hamrad45 Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in the mouth? Thanks for your time, Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47189	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

I did not find I had to do this. I have 3 tanks with in-tank backgrounds siliconed in. 24 hours to dry, fill and it was fine to add fish immediately. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I believe you should also "soak" the siliconed work for a day or so after allowing it to harden and before putting in in the tank, someone told me it will leach some toxins or acidic stuff that will affect your tank water. I'm not sure, but better safe than sorry! Besides, what are you planning to do to keep the lego structures from floating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I forgot to say that anything siliconed together would have to sit and wait for the silicone to harden, I forget off the top of my head how long that takes but I know it's awhile (overnight at least I think, maybe 24 hours to cure?). So if you want something quicker you could use the legos, I just wanted to give you another option in case you didn't want to look at legos every day (inside the aquarium sure is safer than the floor though, right? LOL). Amber hamrad45 wrote: > > I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the > fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and > even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was > wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be > safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in > the mouth? > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47190	From: dmelton2@gmail.com	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

Tom, I use hamster tubes for my Dragon fish. I covered the tubes with rocks. One of these days I will silicone pea gravel to the top so it blends in better. Yeah, one of these days when I find some "spare" time. Sent from Debs mobile phone On Mar 10, 2010, at 9:16 AM, "hamrad45" <hamrad@...> wrote: > I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the > fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and > even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was > wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it > be safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put > in the mouth? > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47191	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms/Dearest GoldLenny

Well.. a Goldfish's poop will usually be kind of thick and the same color as their last meal. If they ate a lot, yes a long poop can come out and hang on for a while. If it wasn't the color of their food, then there are ways of diagnosing fish poop to help determine what might be wrong... and since he died, I would suspect something was indeed wrong. A Goldfish's poop should NOT look like a nematode so I would suspect it either did have worms or that the poop was thin and white from other internal parasite issues so you may still have a problem in your tank. Here's some pages on how to help diagnose a goldfish's health (and other fish too) from how their poop looks. http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/fecal_disorders.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms/Dearest GoldLenny Hello GoldLenny, Thank you so much for your great advice. Unfortunately, after asking my expert family member, I realized I was treating my poor beloved goldfish for nothing more than "regular poop". He died shortly after my post to you. I have since replaced 'him' as my tank was just not complete anymore. I do thank you for your advice on PraziPro as I have written it down for future reference if needed. I am working on my last of three tank to keep it away from my cat. Thanks for your help. Joanie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes, your other fish could be infested so you need to keep an eye on them. > If you can get some PraziPro from Hikari, you could safely treat your > entire tank and that will kill off internal worms, flukes, etc. Buy > the smallest bottle you can since you only need a little bit to treat a lot of water. > It's the same medicine they use for de-worming cats and dogs. It's > very safe and it's one of the only medications that I use for > pre-treating ALL of my newly purchased fish while they are in > quarantine... which is something all fish keepers should do > (quarantine) any newly purchased fish for several weeks before adding them to our main tanks. > > I'm not sure how effective a salt bath is going to be on internal > worms, although adding salt to the main tank at 1 teaspoon per gallon > (slowly raised to that level in 1/3rd doses over 24 hours) will help > to kill off any free swimming worms that might get pooped out... but > if you get the PraziPro, the salt would not be needed and the PraziPro > is much easier on the fish than salt. You were wise to NOT buy > aquarium salt since it's just a BIG rip-off. It's the same thing as > plain table salt... NaCl... Sodium Chloride. It's a shame that pet > stores even sell the stuff to customers when they could have boxes of > Kosher salt, Morton's or even Generic on the shelf next to the > so-called Aquarium Salt to inform their customers of this rip-off.. or just not even carry the so-called Aquarium Salt products. > > I'm not sure if worms that live in goldfish are transferrable to your cat. > Most pathogens from one Family in the animal kingdom usually are not a > pathogen to another Family but there are some that cross over. It > would depend on the exact species of worm but you may want to check > with your vet about doing a preventive worm treatment. > > You should also keep a cover on your tank to prevent the fish from > drinking out of the tank in the future, for it's own safety and to > minimize stress on the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms > > I sort of recently, a few weeks, added a new goldfish to my others. > > It has been with my other 4 very cheap feeder, but absolutely loved > goldfish. > > I noticed something hanging out of it's rear a few days ago. > > I researched and believe it to be nematoda. > > Since then I have given it regular salt baths, two on two different > days. I used 4 tsp of table salt to one gallon of water as per > About.com. I was not able to get out to get aquarium salt at the store. > > I am aware that some are released during the salt baths. > I had put the fish back in the tank with the others. > > However, I gave it it's 3rd bath today for about 20 minutes and have > isolated it a fish bowl for now. > > 1) How do I save this fish? Can it be returned. > 2) How do I know if my other fish are infected. What should I do? > 3) My darn cat sometimes likes to drink the goldfish water. I am > trying ways to stop her. Can she be infected? > > Thanks for your help. > Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47192	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

Noura, If the silicone is marked as safe for aquarium use, the silicone does not have to be soaked to leach anything out. If it is not marked as safe, then you could soak it for years and still kill your fish when they are placed in the water with that silicone. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I believe you should also "soak" the siliconed work for a day or so after allowing it to harden and before putting in in the tank, someone told me it will leach some toxins or acidic stuff that will affect your tank water. I'm not sure, but better safe than sorry! Besides, what are you planning to do to keep the lego structures from floating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I forgot to say that anything siliconed together would have to sit and wait for the silicone to harden, I forget off the top of my head how long that takes but I know it's awhile (overnight at least I think, maybe 24 hours to cure?). So if you want something quicker you could use the legos, I just wanted to give you another option in case you didn't want to look at legos every day (inside the aquarium sure is safer than the floor though, right? LOL). Amber hamrad45 wrote: > > I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the > fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and > even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was > wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be > safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in > the mouth? > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47193	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?

Lenny, Thank you very much for digging out that past post of mine to DebR -- and CB, Lucille and Raven -- I don't know if I could have found it any faster, even though I was thinking of putting in a search. Failing that, I was just about to make a much abbreviated reply recommending the use of the Furan II, as it contains the very medications needed that I initially mentioned for treating this fungus. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47194	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/10/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

Hi Noura, While you don't need to soak your tank for 24 hours after repairing it with silicone sealant, depending on the conditions you've encountered when using the sealant, it may be advisable to give the tank a good rinsing -- or at the very most allow it to soak for a brief time if you feel safer in doing so. Silicone sealant is advertised to cure in 24 hours -- at 77 o, and at 50% humidity -- AND at a bead thickness of 1/8". Somewhat lower room temperatures or a higher humidity may prolong the curing time by an hour or two, but it's decidedly the thickness of the bead that is layed down that may require a much longer curing time if it's any heavier. If you make this repair outdoors (where it's advisable because of the fumes), the curing time may very well be extended if the overnight temperature drops. Actually, I find it both nearly impossible and impractical in all but the most minor applications to even attempt to lay down such a thin bead as in doing so -- while you may get the sealant way into the very corner of the joint with an 1/8" bead, you will not be allowing for it's spread out onto the adjoining glass panes where an enduring seal will be ensured. There have been occasions when I've set up a sealed tank for use after 24 hours of repairing it, but then I always give the tank a quick rinse. You will not got any toxins out of the sealant regardless of taking this precaution or not, but you could be subjecting the aquarium water to a drop in pH if you were not to take this added measure. As a natural process of curing, silicone sealant gives off acetic acid, which is evidenced by the strong smell you get from this product when using it. A repair not yet cured will still be releasing this acetic acid, especially if any materially thicker bead is layed down. Most often, I find I'm laying down a bead of approximately 1/4" thick at the very joint of the corner, with feathering it out onto the both glass panes to at least 1/4" (or up to 1/2") wide. The width has little bearing on the curing time and this ensures a better seal long-term. Even when taking care in trying to lay down as uniform bead as I can though, I know it may vary in thickness as I'm not a machine. I'll use a thin surgical glove and my index finger to run as uniform of a bead as I can, after first laying the bead down with the calking gun. For one thing, my fingertip cannot get within 1/8" of the very corner of the joint even when pressing into the corner, as it's about 1/2" wide, so I know even while I'm making a "U" channel that the thickness at that extreme point is at least 1/4". As such, if I have the time I allow for 48 hours for a complete cure. There's no need for a rinse at that time (there's very little smell even left then). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47195	From: Noura	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Africans food question

Hi, Due to some unexpected complications, I had to delay moving the new Malawi Cichlids to their own tank for ten additional days. So now they're are in the 20g community tank with 3Tetras (adults and juvies), 2Clown Loaches (juvies), and 3Zebra Danios (adults). So far it's a peaceful environment as the cichlids are still 1" . My question is about their nutrition IN that community tank. Here's what I'm doing please correct anything that you find wrong: *I put a piece of cucumber or lettuce all day long, attached by the "algae scrubber magnet piece", and take it out by the end of the day. I noticed that all the Kenyis and yellow labs are snaking on it during the day, as well as the Clown Loaches "they make clicking sounds with every bite". * I'm minimizing the dried worms feeding "blood worms and tubifex" to one meal/3 days, and using balanced quality flakes + Spirulina Flakes for regular feedings TWICE ADAY. * about once aweek , I'm throwing tiny pieces of raw cow/beef meat. And every fish in that tank goes crazy for it. * about once a week I'm throwing in crushed egg white (hard boiled). I'll write a different post about their dietary schedule when they're in their own cichlid tank. Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47196	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?

I just used an Google Advanced search with Deb's signature line, the key words, fuzzy and cotton and then specified to only search the website yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife and Google found three hits, all in the same thread. It took about a minute or two. ;-) I rarely use the search field in Yahoo Groups since it doesn't seem to work very well when I've tried using it in the past. According to the YahooGroups official blog, they have supposedly fixed the search function but I like Google and their advanced search form when looking for info on a specific site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus again? Lenny, Thank you very much for digging out that past post of mine to DebR -- and CB, Lucille and Raven -- I don't know if I could have found it any faster, even though I was thinking of putting in a search. Failing that, I was just about to make a much abbreviated reply recommending the use of the Furan II, as it contains the very medications needed that I initially mentioned for treating this fungus. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47197	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

I just use the smell test. If it's no longer putting out any smell, then it's cured. If it's still putting out a strong smell, then it's not. As a general rule, I wait 48 hours to be sure and have waited 72 hours when I had to use thicker globs of silicone on some decorations or other home repairs. The smell test is the final arbiter.... isn't it with most things in life? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? Hi Noura, While you don't need to soak your tank for 24 hours after repairing it with silicone sealant, depending on the conditions you've encountered when using the sealant, it may be advisable to give the tank a good rinsing -- or at the very most allow it to soak for a brief time if you feel safer in doing so. Silicone sealant is advertised to cure in 24 hours -- at 77 o, and at 50% humidity -- AND at a bead thickness of 1/8". Somewhat lower room temperatures or a higher humidity may prolong the curing time by an hour or two, but it's decidedly the thickness of the bead that is layed down that may require a much longer curing time if it's any heavier. If you make this repair outdoors (where it's advisable because of the fumes), the curing time may very well be extended if the overnight temperature drops. Actually, I find it both nearly impossible and impractical in all but the most minor applications to even attempt to lay down such a thin bead as in doing so -- while you may get the sealant way into the very corner of the joint with an 1/8" bead, you will not be allowing for it's spread out onto the adjoining glass panes where an enduring seal will be ensured. There have been occasions when I've set up a sealed tank for use after 24 hours of repairing it, but then I always give the tank a quick rinse. You will not got any toxins out of the sealant regardless of taking this precaution or not, but you could be subjecting the aquarium water to a drop in pH if you were not to take this added measure. As a natural process of curing, silicone sealant gives off acetic acid, which is evidenced by the strong smell you get from this product when using it. A repair not yet cured will still be releasing this acetic acid, especially if any materially thicker bead is layed down. Most often, I find I'm laying down a bead of approximately 1/4" thick at the very joint of the corner, with feathering it out onto the both glass panes to at least 1/4" (or up to 1/2") wide. The width has little bearing on the curing time and this ensures a better seal long-term. Even when taking care in trying to lay down as uniform bead as I can though, I know it may vary in thickness as I'm not a machine. I'll use a thin surgical glove and my index finger to run as uniform of a bead as I can, after first laying the bead down with the calking gun. For one thing, my fingertip cannot get within 1/8" of the very corner of the joint even when pressing into the corner, as it's about 1/2" wide, so I know even while I'm making a "U" channel that the thickness at that extreme point is at least 1/4". As such, if I have the time I allow for 48 hours for a complete cure. There's no need for a rinse at that time (there's very little smell even left then). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47198	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Africans food question

I'd eliminate the last three items and feed a general purpose herbivore food with 34% protein or less. Even though many of your mbuna are omnivores. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:49 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Africans food question Hi, Due to some unexpected complications, I had to delay moving the new Malawi Cichlids to their own tank for ten additional days. So now they're are in the 20g community tank with 3Tetras (adults and juvies), 2Clown Loaches (juvies), and 3Zebra Danios (adults). So far it's a peaceful environment as the cichlids are still 1" . My question is about their nutrition IN that community tank. Here's what I'm doing please correct anything that you find wrong: *I put a piece of cucumber or lettuce all day long, attached by the "algae scrubber magnet piece", and take it out by the end of the day. I noticed that all the Kenyis and yellow labs are snaking on it during the day, as well as the Clown Loaches "they make clicking sounds with every bite". * I'm minimizing the dried worms feeding "blood worms and tubifex" to one meal/3 days, and using balanced quality flakes + Spirulina Flakes for regular feedings TWICE ADAY. * about once aweek , I'm throwing tiny pieces of raw cow/beef meat. And every fish in that tank goes crazy for it. * about once a week I'm throwing in crushed egg white (hard boiled). I'll write a different post about their dietary schedule when they're in their own cichlid tank. Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47199	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

\\Steve//, There's a crater lake in the Cameroons, named Lake Nyos, which is know for its hard yet acidic water -- which you may be thinking of (?). Due to its high content of calcium carbonates (making the water hard), and the carbonic acid being built up from a chemical reaction with this and the natural process of decay turning the water acid, every once in a while it undergoes limnic (degassing) eruptions when the Lake overturns -- releasing hugh amounts of carbon dioxide in a sudden explosion. When this happened in 1986, it asphyxiated all living organisms within a 15 mile radeius, including 1800 people and their livestock. Maybe it's best for hobbyists not to try to duplicate such water < g >; as this combination is usually an anomoly, it's not nice to fool Mother Nature (LOL). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47200	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

Ray, That is the one. I knew it began with an "N". It is a rather interesting place. Now, do I have enough time to take my lesson on driving a Zamboni? http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/03/10/automobiles/1247467204943/how-to-d rive-a-zamboni.html?th&emc=th http://tinyurl.com/yjw9c64 (May require registration to use the site.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish \\Steve//, There's a crater lake in the Cameroons, named Lake Nyos, which is know for its hard yet acidic water -- which you may be thinking of (?). Due to its high content of calcium carbonates (making the water hard), and the carbonic acid being built up from a chemical reaction with this and the natural process of decay turning the water acid, every once in a while it undergoes limnic (degassing) eruptions when the Lake overturns -- releasing hugh amounts of carbon dioxide in a sudden explosion. When this happened in 1986, it asphyxiated all living organisms within a 15 mile radeius, including 1800 people and their livestock. Maybe it's best for hobbyists not to try to duplicate such water < g >; as this combination is usually an anomoly, it's not nice to fool Mother Nature (LOL). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47201	From: Noura	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

Hi Steve, when I custome-made my 6G two years ago, they sure used aquarium-safe silicone, at least I know that no fish died or got sick within months of setting that tank. But I clearly remember the tank's manufacturer telling me to soak fishlessly (is that a word??) for a day, then get rid of the water and fill again with fish, maybe he was just being over cautious. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? Noura, If the silicone is marked as safe for aquarium use, the silicone does not have to be soaked to leach anything out. If it is not marked as safe, then you could soak it for years and still kill your fish when they are placed in the water with that silicone. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I believe you should also "soak" the siliconed work for a day or so after allowing it to harden and before putting in in the tank, someone told me it will leach some toxins or acidic stuff that will affect your tank water. I'm not sure, but better safe than sorry! Besides, what are you planning to do to keep the lego structures from floating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I forgot to say that anything siliconed together would have to sit and wait for the silicone to harden, I forget off the top of my head how long that takes but I know it's awhile (overnight at least I think, maybe 24 hours to cure?). So if you want something quicker you could use the legos, I just wanted to give you another option in case you didn't want to look at legos every day (inside the aquarium sure is safer than the floor though, right? LOL). Amber hamrad45 wrote: > > I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the > fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and > even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was > wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be > safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in > the mouth? > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47202	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

\\Steve//, Wouldn't you be better off with driving a Lamborghini? Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47203	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Africans food question

I'd certainly skip that raw cow/beef meat for these fish, and they don't need the crushed hard-boiled egg white either. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47204	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms/Dearest GoldLenny

Lenny, Thank you so much for those three sites which I have saved for future reference. Oh my, I thought I killed my fish with the salt baths???? Oh my, again, now I need to keep a very close eye on the fish in the tank he was in. Thank you SO MUCH for your help and advice! Joanie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Well.. a Goldfish's poop will usually be kind of thick and the same color as > their last meal. If they ate a lot, yes a long poop can come out and hang > on for a while. If it wasn't the color of their food, then there are ways > of diagnosing fish poop to help determine what might be wrong... and since > he died, I would suspect something was indeed wrong. A Goldfish's poop > should NOT look like a nematode so I would suspect it either did have worms > or that the poop was thin and white from other internal parasite issues so > you may still have a problem in your tank. > > Here's some pages on how to help diagnose a goldfish's health (and other > fish too) from how their poop looks. > > http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 > > http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/fecal_disorders.html > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms/Dearest GoldLenny > > Hello GoldLenny, > Thank you so much for your great advice. > Unfortunately, after asking my expert family member, I realized I was > treating my poor beloved goldfish for nothing more than "regular poop". He > died shortly after my post to you. I have since replaced 'him' as my tank > was just not complete anymore. > > I do thank you for your advice on PraziPro as I have written it down for > future reference if needed. > > I am working on my last of three tank to keep it away from my cat. > Thanks for your help. > Joanie > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Yes, your other fish could be infested so you need to keep an eye on them. > > If you can get some PraziPro from Hikari, you could safely treat your > > entire tank and that will kill off internal worms, flukes, etc. Buy > > the smallest bottle you can since you only need a little bit to treat a > lot of water. > > It's the same medicine they use for de-worming cats and dogs. It's > > very safe and it's one of the only medications that I use for > > pre-treating ALL of my newly purchased fish while they are in > > quarantine... which is something all fish keepers should do > > (quarantine) any newly purchased fish for several weeks before adding them > to our main tanks. > > > > I'm not sure how effective a salt bath is going to be on internal > > worms, although adding salt to the main tank at 1 teaspoon per gallon > > (slowly raised to that level in 1/3rd doses over 24 hours) will help > > to kill off any free swimming worms that might get pooped out... but > > if you get the PraziPro, the salt would not be needed and the PraziPro > > is much easier on the fish than salt. You were wise to NOT buy > > aquarium salt since it's just a BIG rip-off. It's the same thing as > > plain table salt... NaCl... Sodium Chloride. It's a shame that pet > > stores even sell the stuff to customers when they could have boxes of > > Kosher salt, Morton's or even Generic on the shelf next to the > > so-called Aquarium Salt to inform their customers of this rip-off.. or > just not even carry the so-called Aquarium Salt products. > > > > I'm not sure if worms that live in goldfish are transferrable to your cat. > > Most pathogens from one Family in the animal kingdom usually are not a > > pathogen to another Family but there are some that cross over. It > > would depend on the exact species of worm but you may want to check > > with your vet about doing a preventive worm treatment. > > > > You should also keep a cover on your tank to prevent the fish from > > drinking out of the tank in the future, for it's own safety and to > > minimize stress on the fish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ > > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish with Nematoda/Worms > > > > I sort of recently, a few weeks, added a new goldfish to my others. > > > > It has been with my other 4 very cheap feeder, but absolutely loved > > goldfish. > > > > I noticed something hanging out of it's rear a few days ago. > > > > I researched and believe it to be nematoda. > > > > Since then I have given it regular salt baths, two on two different > > days. I used 4 tsp of table salt to one gallon of water as per > > About.com. I was not able to get out to get aquarium salt at the store. > > > > I am aware that some are released during the salt baths. > > I had put the fish back in the tank with the others. > > > > However, I gave it it's 3rd bath today for about 20 minutes and have > > isolated it a fish bowl for now. > > > > 1) How do I save this fish? Can it be returned. > > 2) How do I know if my other fish are infected. What should I do? > > 3) My darn cat sometimes likes to drink the goldfish water. I am > > trying ways to stop her. Can she be infected? > > > > Thanks for your help. > > Joanie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47205	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

Ray, Unfortunately, the dealer across town doesn't like me coming around and drooling over the cars in the showroom. (They have Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Maseratis there.) Now, let me check to see if I won Wednesday's Powerball drawing . . . . . . nope, oh well, guess I'll not be going over there this weekend with a suitcase full of $100 bills. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hard Water Fish \\Steve//, Wouldn't you be better off with driving a Lamborghini? Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47206	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/11/2010
Subject: Re: Lego: Good in an aquarium?

Or, maybe, they just wanted to be sure it was not a leaker. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? Hi Steve, when I custome-made my 6G two years ago, they sure used aquarium-safe silicone, at least I know that no fish died or got sick within months of setting that tank. But I clearly remember the tank's manufacturer telling me to soak fishlessly (is that a word??) for a day, then get rid of the water and fill again with fish, maybe he was just being over cautious. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? Noura, If the silicone is marked as safe for aquarium use, the silicone does not have to be soaked to leach anything out. If it is not marked as safe, then you could soak it for years and still kill your fish when they are placed in the water with that silicone. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I believe you should also "soak" the siliconed work for a day or so after allowing it to harden and before putting in in the tank, someone told me it will leach some toxins or acidic stuff that will affect your tank water. I'm not sure, but better safe than sorry! Besides, what are you planning to do to keep the lego structures from floating? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lego: Good in an aquarium? I forgot to say that anything siliconed together would have to sit and wait for the silicone to harden, I forget off the top of my head how long that takes but I know it's awhile (overnight at least I think, maybe 24 hours to cure?). So if you want something quicker you could use the legos, I just wanted to give you another option in case you didn't want to look at legos every day (inside the aquarium sure is safer than the floor though, right? LOL). Amber hamrad45 wrote: > > I need to build something in my aquarium to provide places for the > fish to hide. I went to the pet store and looked at their pieces and > even the $30+ did not provide many places for fish to hide. I was > wondering if I could build something with Lego blocks and would it be > safe for the fish since they are suppose to safe for kids to put in > the mouth? > > Thanks for your time, > > Tom > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47207	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Hard Water Fish

\\Steve//, Yeah, I can understand the dealership not wanting you inspected their cars -- especially with your sitting in them. All that dribbling form the mouth may stain the upholstery < g >. Better luck next time with the Powerball ! Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47208	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/35787995/ns/today-today_pets_and_animals/ http://tinyurl.com/yalh3la Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old Named after football player Dick Butkus, fish is a celebrity in his own right TODAY staff and wire updated 9:08 a.m. ET, Wed., March. 10, 2010 NEW YORK - It sounds awfully fishy, but a New York City pet shop owner swears it's the truth. Buttkiss, the black pacu he owns, is 43 years old and weighs 20 pounds. A pacu is a breed that's related to the piranha - and this pacu has lived twice as long as the average member of his species. Steve Gruebel, owner of the Cameo Pet Shop in Queens, N.Y., said he got Buttkiss in 1967 when the fish was just a wee little thing, and he sold him a year later when Buttkiss was 2 inches long. Buttkiss was returned to the pet shop in 1970 when he outgrew the buyer's tank. Now 23 inches long, Buttkiss eats a steady diet of 25 goldfish every other day and lives in a 75-gallon tank that isn't much longer than he is: just 4 feet. Gruebel said he's afraid to transfer him to a bigger tank because he may not survive the changing environment. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47209	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Where Do Your Fish Come From?

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/detail.asp?id=8439 http://tinyurl.com/yzcd5p9 Four arrested for aquarium fish smuggling in Phuket PHUKET TOWN: Four residents of a Sea Gypsy community in Rawai were arrested yesterday for smuggling protected marine species. The suspects, 34-year-old Pichit Bangjak and three minors, were arrested at 11am in a pickup truck parked along Thepkrasattri Road in Rassada, near the Phuket Highways Department Office. A search of foam coolers in the bed of the truck uncovered 250 aquarium fish, 300 corals and 20 sea fans ready for transport in plastic bags and other types of packaging. The value of the items was estimated in excess of 200,000 baht. The arrests followed a report that men in a truck would be loading protected species onto a Bangkok-bound tour bus leaving the Phuket Bus Terminal in Phuket Town at 10:50am. The operation was led jointly by Phuket Marine and Coastal Resources Conservation Center director Paitoon Panchaipum and Phuket Marine Police deputy inspector Lt Natthapong Preugtharathikul. The officers followed the P2 company bus out of the station to Rassada, where the men were waiting to flag down the vehicle and load the containers into the storage hold. The victims confessed to transporting the items, but insisted the marine life did not belong them. They were simply hired to transport the fish and coral to Bangkok, they said. All four suspects were taken to Phuket City Police Station for questioning and charged with possession of protected species without permission. Police will try to expand the investigation and bring more fish and coral smugglers to justice. Mr Paitoon said there are still 28 fishing boats operating illegally in the waters off Phuket collecting aquarium fish and transporting them to Bangkok, where there is still high demand for them by aquarium supply stores. Each of the vessels has a crew of seven or eight men, he said. -----Comments at end of story----- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47210	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: MTS Can Be a Serious Ailment

http://sheneskillies.com/paka/shene_files/Fishrooms.html http://tinyurl.com/yhqbxm6 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47211	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed

http://www.thestar.com/mobile/news/article/774940 http://tinyurl.com/ybb5hy5 Store owners suspect vandal after hundreds of fish die March 4, 2010 21:03:00 Carmen Chai Staff Reporter The first indication that something was wrong was the smell of bleach. By the time employees of the exotic fish store reached the wall of 70 tanks, hundreds of fish, including small sharks and rare shrimp, were dead. "It smelled like a public pool," said Adam Gharavi, co-owner of Indoor Jungle at 1285 Kennedy Rd. "And for the rest of the day, the fish kept dying and there was nothing we could do. We watched our money go down the drain." Gharavi said he is certain it wasn't an equipment malfunction and believes a chemical or bleach was poured into the central system, which filters and heats 400 tanks holding more than 5,000 fish. He said the vandal, who attacked on Wednesday afternoon, went for the store's most expensive fish and 200 pieces of rare coral. Small bamboo sharks, lion fish and hundreds of rare shrimps were among the 700 exotic fish killed, along with endangered corals imported from Australia, Indonesia, Singapore and the Caribbean. "We know whoever did this had some knowledge of how fish tanks work and what the fish need to survive," Gharavi said. He estimated the damage in the tens of thousands of dollars. "That wall was the first to go, but they weren't trying to kill just a few tanks." Customers alerted store employees at about 1 p.m. about a strong smell of bleach coming from the tanks. Gharavi said the store had thriving business since it opened five months ago in a competitive neighbourhood. It is one of about a dozen fish stores along Kennedy Rd. between Steeles Ave. E. and Eglinton Ave. E., but Gharavi said his location is "bigger than other stores in space and the amount of fish we have is so much more." "Well, had," he added. "A lot of people see us as a threat. We're four young guys who live and breathe this business. We treat it not like a job but our lives and we've been doing considerably well," Ghavari said. Bruce Rosenberg, manager of Big Al's Aquarium just steps away, said the neighbourhood is supportive and friendly. "There's no disharmony at all. We've coexisted for years and we know the more different stores you have in the area, the more people come so everyone benefits," he said. --------<Continued at link>-------- There are a number of comments on this story, as well as the story again, at: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=38921701 http://tinyurl.com/ybzp8pr \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47212	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed

\\Steve//, I'm guessing you must have read all or most of the comments, that you've included as links, relating to this tragedy? I noted in your link to addtional comments, just before you signed off, the quote that was included in the news story by "The Star" newspaper of Canada where the OSPCA (Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) stated they could not get involved because "The case would not fall under animal cruelty because fish are non-vertebrates. The further describe "vertebrate"as, "according to the Act, "animal" means a live non-human vertebrate." Are these people INSANE? Their very description is THE REASON why they should get involved. Anyone remotely familiar with fish KNOWS that fish ARE vertebrates (they are not "non-vertebrates"). I think these people need to go back to school , and I'm not talking about the university that they graduated from, but SEVENTH GRADE SCIENCE. A "vertebrate" is an animal (ANY animal) with a backbone, having it's spinal cord encased by it, and fish fall into that category -- they always DID. There are five known classes of vertebrates: mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and FISH. Albeit, fish are aquatic vertebrates, but they ARE vertebrates non the less -- and they ARE animals. I believe even sharks are vertebrates but because their backbone is made up of cartilage instead of bone, they are included as "fish." Corals would not be included of course, even though they're animals, and as such wouldn't come under their jurisdiction. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47213	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: MTS Can Be a Serious Ailment

\\Steve//, Not sure if you've noticed -- but Noura posted the exact same link under her Subject title, "MTS". I'm not sure you know this guy, but he's fairly local to us, living in Pittsburg, PA. This is Bill Shenefelt who's quite well know across the country (and in Europe as well, and apparently now even getting known in Syria < g >) in Killiefish circles; he raised mostly Killiefish, hence the small size of most of his tanks. This amount of tanks may be considered as MTS, but it's far from being unusual in this hobby. In adding up the figures, I note he has 167 tanks (including some "critter keepers"), with about 3425 total gallons. Critter keepers are nothing more than molded plastic containers of about 2.5 gallons that are generally used for smaller animals, but are put to use as inexpensive aquariums by many Killiefish enthusiasts. We have a guy in one of our local aquarium societies here in north Jersey. coming from Catskill, NY, who has 300 thirty gallon tanks. He cleans 10 tanks a day to keep up his schedule of maintaining all 300 tanks each month in those 30 days -- then starts all over again (he's never done). Heck, Rosario was running about 150 good sized tanks when he was still in Elizabeth, NJ, but now that he's retired (and 82 years old), he weeded them down to only 75. I'm running over 3000 gallons myself, but not as many tanks (somewhere near 90) as many of mine are 50's, and on up to 125 gallons, but that nothing; I could use more tanks if only I had the room. Jeff Rapps (a Cichlid breeder and dealer) is running 10,000 gallons, and many other ACAers have almost the same types of set ups. Yeah, admittedly, this is not the more usual leisurely accomodation of just a community tank with with few extra smaller tanks on commercial stands found in many hobbyists' living rooms, but then, these guys really get into it (LOL). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47214	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old

\\Steve//, From what Joe Ferdenzi has said, Cameo Pet Shop is one of the oldest shops in the country. He used to go there when he was a kid. I've been meaning to get out there myself, as Joe said that walking into this place is like taking a trip back in time. They still have all the old stainless steel framed aquariums from 65 years ago. UH OH, a 20 pound, 23" fish in a 75 gallon tank (???). Don't tell that to Lenny < g >. According to his theory, this fish could not have attained this size, let alone live, in a tank any smaller than 10 x this size -- or at least 750 gallons < G >. Ha Ha Ha Ha, Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47215	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Where Do Your Fish Come From?

I only have one thing to say... Phuket! is not a place that I ever expect to visit. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 5:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Where Do Your Fish Come From? http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/detail.asp?id=8439 http://tinyurl.com/yzcd5p9 Four arrested for aquarium fish smuggling in Phuket PHUKET TOWN: Four residents of a Sea Gypsy community in Rawai were arrested yesterday for smuggling protected marine species. The suspects, 34-year-old Pichit Bangjak and three minors, were arrested at 11am in a pickup truck parked along Thepkrasattri Road in Rassada, near the Phuket Highways Department Office. A search of foam coolers in the bed of the truck uncovered 250 aquarium fish, 300 corals and 20 sea fans ready for transport in plastic bags and other types of packaging. The value of the items was estimated in excess of 200,000 baht. The arrests followed a report that men in a truck would be loading protected species onto a Bangkok-bound tour bus leaving the Phuket Bus Terminal in Phuket Town at 10:50am. The operation was led jointly by Phuket Marine and Coastal Resources Conservation Center director Paitoon Panchaipum and Phuket Marine Police deputy inspector Lt Natthapong Preugtharathikul. The officers followed the P2 company bus out of the station to Rassada, where the men were waiting to flag down the vehicle and load the containers into the storage hold. The victims confessed to transporting the items, but insisted the marine life did not belong them. They were simply hired to transport the fish and coral to Bangkok, they said. All four suspects were taken to Phuket City Police Station for questioning and charged with possession of protected species without permission. Police will try to expand the investigation and bring more fish and coral smugglers to justice. Mr Paitoon said there are still 28 fishing boats operating illegally in the waters off Phuket collecting aquarium fish and transporting them to Bangkok, where there is still high demand for them by aquarium supply stores. Each of the vessels has a crew of seven or eight men, he said. -----Comments at end of story----- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47216	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed

They sell small chlorine tablets, not much larger than a Tums type lozenge, that can be placed in Central A/C drain pans to keep the algae and mulm from building up and clogging a drain line. All it would take is for some sicko to toss one of these into a tank that is part of a central filter system and the tablet would dissolve and contaminate the entire system. It doesn't take much chlorine to kill fish. It's a shame that the stores have to worry about this kind of threat but there's a lot of whacko's/sicko's out there nowadays. Hopefully they have security cameras that might show someone accessing the front panel of a tank. Of course, a disgruntled employee would have access to the back area and main filter system. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 5:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed http://www.thestar.com/mobile/news/article/774940 http://tinyurl.com/ybb5hy5 Store owners suspect vandal after hundreds of fish die March 4, 2010 21:03:00 Carmen Chai Staff Reporter The first indication that something was wrong was the smell of bleach. By the time employees of the exotic fish store reached the wall of 70 tanks, hundreds of fish, including small sharks and rare shrimp, were dead. "It smelled like a public pool," said Adam Gharavi, co-owner of Indoor Jungle at 1285 Kennedy Rd. "And for the rest of the day, the fish kept dying and there was nothing we could do. We watched our money go down the drain." Gharavi said he is certain it wasn't an equipment malfunction and believes a chemical or bleach was poured into the central system, which filters and heats 400 tanks holding more than 5,000 fish. He said the vandal, who attacked on Wednesday afternoon, went for the store's most expensive fish and 200 pieces of rare coral. Small bamboo sharks, lion fish and hundreds of rare shrimps were among the 700 exotic fish killed, along with endangered corals imported from Australia, Indonesia, Singapore and the Caribbean. "We know whoever did this had some knowledge of how fish tanks work and what the fish need to survive," Gharavi said. He estimated the damage in the tens of thousands of dollars. "That wall was the first to go, but they weren't trying to kill just a few tanks." Customers alerted store employees at about 1 p.m. about a strong smell of bleach coming from the tanks. Gharavi said the store had thriving business since it opened five months ago in a competitive neighbourhood. It is one of about a dozen fish stores along Kennedy Rd. between Steeles Ave. E. and Eglinton Ave. E., but Gharavi said his location is "bigger than other stores in space and the amount of fish we have is so much more." "Well, had," he added. "A lot of people see us as a threat. We're four young guys who live and breathe this business. We treat it not like a job but our lives and we've been doing considerably well," Ghavari said. Bruce Rosenberg, manager of Big Al's Aquarium just steps away, said the neighbourhood is supportive and friendly. "There's no disharmony at all. We've coexisted for years and we know the more different stores you have in the area, the more people come so everyone benefits," he said. --------<Continued at link>-------- There are a number of comments on this story, as well as the story again, at: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=38921701 http://tinyurl.com/ybzp8pr \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47217	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old

Well, it wouldn't have in a typical 75G home aquarium. I'm presuming this tank is on a central filtering system which then, technically, increases the water volume to hundreds if not thousands of gallons for dilution of hormones, etc., and if not on a central system, I'm sure they could have added a sump tank to his system to increase the water volume for dilution of pollution. I see a MUCH larger planted tank directly under his tank, where they could house the heater, filtration, etc., since he could easily damage anything in his tank. He would also eat all of the plants since they are herbivores in the wild although he seems to be doing OK on his goldfish diet. Hopefully, they gut-load the goldfish with lots of plant based foods. Of course, if a home aquarist didn't mind creating a system of constantly inflowing fresh water on a daily basis with the older/dirty water flowing out the other end of the tank via an overflow valve, that would work also. This has been done on an experimental basis with Oscars in 10G tanks and the Oscars grew to normal size. All that said, it's still not right to keep such a large fish in a small tank for so long. Now, the owner uses the excuse that moving the fish might cause more harm than keeping him in the undersized tank but if the fish was in the proper sized tank from the beginning... which is what I advocate all the time, this catch-22 issue would not have existed. I'm not sure that a 750G aquarium would be needed but considering a 36" Koi should have at least 300G to 500G per fish, a LARGE bodied fish like a Pacu could certainly need 750G or more. Further, the fish is seriously stunted, barely over half it's attainable size at 23" and an estimated 20 pounds. Pacu's should grow to around 36" although the Black Pacu can be slightly smaller than a Red Pacu (Red Bellied Pacu). We also discussed this out here back in October 2009 based on these links... http://www.pawnation.com/2009/10/01/buttkiss-the-41-year-old-pacu/ http://mobile.gothamist.com/2009/09/24/same_fish_in_queens_petshop_for_41.ph p OR http://tinyurl.com/yjhsyhx Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old \\Steve//, From what Joe Ferdenzi has said, Cameo Pet Shop is one of the oldest shops in the country. He used to go there when he was a kid. I've been meaning to get out there myself, as Joe said that walking into this place is like taking a trip back in time. They still have all the old stainless steel framed aquariums from 65 years ago. UH OH, a 20 pound, 23" fish in a 75 gallon tank (???). Don't tell that to Lenny < g >. According to his theory, this fish could not have attained this size, let alone live, in a tank any smaller than 10 x this size -- or at least 750 gallons < G >. Ha Ha Ha Ha, Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47218	From: bkmat62	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4

Another thing that you may wish to clean is the the filter tubing. I have had a similar experience with another manufacturer's canister filter and found that cleaning the tubing resolved the problem. I believe that the additional resistance to flow in the tube returning the filtered water to the aquarium resulted in increased internal filter pressure and a leak. Try cleaning the tubing, it can't hurt and may solve your problem. Bob --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > The drips are occurring at the clips and it's dripping onto the floor > from the bottom of each clip (at least 2 clips were dripping but it was > a large puddle so I assume all 4 were dripping at some point), but all 4 > clips are pushed in correctly, the drip is happening around the edge, > and appeared to only be on one side when I was checking the canister > filter over before I opened it and started cleaning it. > *salutes* Yes Sir! will report back in, in the next 24-48 hours max ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > One other thing. Make sure all four clamps are clipped in properly. I'm > > not sure if you've ever noticed but they can come un-hinged from the > > canister bottom where they snap into little C-holders and then they won't > > clamp down properly and that one corner will leak since it's not holding > > down the motor housing as tightly as the other clamps. > > > > Report back with what was wrong and your results so I'll know if these > > suggestions worked. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:50 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > Thanks Lenny I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm not so tired, see if > > I can > > find any debris blocking the seal, or anything else that may be out of > > place > > in the motor part of the "lid". > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > When you do maintenance, make sure you wipe the top of the plastic > > > canister and also check for any debris on the rubber seal on the motor > > > housing where it sits on top of the canister. If some debris ends up > > > breaking the seal between the rubber seal and the plastic top of the > > > canister, it can leak. > > > I've never had that happen on either of my Rena's but I don't have an > > > XP-4 but they are built the same except the XP-4 is taller and has a > > > bigger motor. The reason it might not be happening right away is that > > > the water is flowing back up to the tank easily when the filter media > > > is clean but as it clogs up, there is some back pressure building up > > > inside the canister and that puts more pressure on any possible areas > > > that might be prone to leak. > > > Use a flashlight and look around the lip of the motor housing to see > > > if you can see where the leak is coming from so you will know where to > > > look on the top of the canister or on the rubber seal. Hopefully it's > > > not damaged and just some kind of debris. If the top of the plastic > > > canister lip is dinged, you could probably fill that in with some > > > epoxy and then sand it down to be even with the rest of the lip. If > > > it's the rubber seal that's damaged, you can buy a new one from Rena. > > > I've never looked at mine closely, other than to check for debris so > > > it may even be an O-ring shoved up into the motor housing that sits > > > down onto the canister lip. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:27 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > > > So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 canister filter? > > > I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this week (had a > > > HOB die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last week, but > > > the HOB is not there this week so I now know it's the Rena XP 4 that's > > > slowly dripping around the "lid" of the canister). > > > These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm > > > wondering how/why it may be doing this. > > > It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about half way > > > through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was barely > > > dirty, so it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. I clean it > > > every week like all my other filters. > > > I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 that I use > > > on my > > > 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have on my > > > 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the > > > manufacturing process? If so I'd think I would have noticed the leak a > > > long time ago, these are around a year old now. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47219	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4

I actually had a screen cover over the intake filter and I'm pretty sure that's what helped cause the leaking, I removed it so the flow of water could be un-obstructed into the filter and have experienced no leaking since then (and since cleaning the filter on last friday), when I open it up tonight to clean it I'm going to take a closer peek to see if there are any other obstructions. I've noticed since removing the cover over the intake that ALL the fish are acting oddly, they are hovering near the surface (even my Severum), I'm not sure why they would be doing this, I haven't changed anything else in my routine. The filters were cleaned a week ago (due for another cleaning of course), did a PWC last week as well. I have a "bubble wand" in the tank so there should be more than plenty of oxygen (not to mention 2 powerheads and 2 canister filters). I did have to remove a HOB from the tank a little over a week ago though (the motor seems to have died, I need to inspect it closer too). I suppose it's possible that the HOB had most of the nitrifying bacteria and I lost too much when I removed the HOB. The fish didn't start this odd behavior until just a few days ago. I will have to test the water tonight to see what my pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates are at right at this exact moment, I didn't do that yet this week when the odd behavior started (between work and jury duty it hasn't been a fun week, lol). Amber bkmat62 wrote: > > Another thing that you may wish to clean is the the filter tubing. I > have had a similar experience with another manufacturer's canister > filter and found that cleaning the tubing resolved the problem. I > believe that the additional resistance to flow in the tube returning > the filtered water to the aquarium resulted in increased internal > filter pressure and a leak. Try cleaning the tubing, it can't hurt and > may solve your problem. > > Bob > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > The drips are occurring at the clips and it's dripping onto the floor > > from the bottom of each clip (at least 2 clips were dripping but it was > > a large puddle so I assume all 4 were dripping at some point), but > all 4 > > clips are pushed in correctly, the drip is happening around the edge, > > and appeared to only be on one side when I was checking the canister > > filter over before I opened it and started cleaning it. > > *salutes* Yes Sir! will report back in, in the next 24-48 hours max ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > One other thing. Make sure all four clamps are clipped in > properly. I'm > > > not sure if you've ever noticed but they can come un-hinged from the > > > canister bottom where they snap into little C-holders and then > they won't > > > clamp down properly and that one corner will leak since it's not > holding > > > down the motor housing as tightly as the other clamps. > > > > > > Report back with what was wrong and your results so I'll know if these > > > suggestions worked. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:50 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > > > Thanks Lenny I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm not so tired, see if > > > I can > > > find any debris blocking the seal, or anything else that may be > out of > > > place > > > in the motor part of the "lid". > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > When you do maintenance, make sure you wipe the top of the plastic > > > > canister and also check for any debris on the rubber seal on the > motor > > > > housing where it sits on top of the canister. If some debris ends up > > > > breaking the seal between the rubber seal and the plastic top of the > > > > canister, it can leak. > > > > I've never had that happen on either of my Rena's but I don't > have an > > > > XP-4 but they are built the same except the XP-4 is taller and has a > > > > bigger motor. The reason it might not be happening right away is > that > > > > the water is flowing back up to the tank easily when the filter > media > > > > is clean but as it clogs up, there is some back pressure building up > > > > inside the canister and that puts more pressure on any possible > areas > > > > that might be prone to leak. > > > > Use a flashlight and look around the lip of the motor housing to see > > > > if you can see where the leak is coming from so you will know > where to > > > > look on the top of the canister or on the rubber seal. Hopefully > it's > > > > not damaged and just some kind of debris. If the top of the plastic > > > > canister lip is dinged, you could probably fill that in with some > > > > epoxy and then sand it down to be even with the rest of the lip. If > > > > it's the rubber seal that's damaged, you can buy a new one from > Rena. > > > > I've never looked at mine closely, other than to check for debris so > > > > it may even be an O-ring shoved up into the motor housing that sits > > > > down onto the canister lip. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > > > > > So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 canister > filter? > > > > I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this week > (had a > > > > HOB die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last week, but > > > > the HOB is not there this week so I now know it's the Rena XP 4 > that's > > > > slowly dripping around the "lid" of the canister). > > > > These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm > > > > wondering how/why it may be doing this. > > > > It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about > half way > > > > through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was barely > > > > dirty, so it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. I clean it > > > > every week like all my other filters. > > > > I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 that > I use > > > > on my > > > > 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have on my > > > > 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the > > > > manufacturing process? If so I'd think I would have noticed the > leak a > > > > long time ago, these are around a year old now. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47220	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Floating Food

What do you think of these ingredients as fish food? I usually mix 2 parts of sinking food to 1 part of floating food (by weight) and this would be the (new?) floating food. Ingredients fish meal, soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten meal, soya oil, coconut oil, wheat, calcium carbonate, raisins, coconut, papaya, apricot, banana, sweet potato, pineapple, apple, spinach, broccoli, carrots, dates, dicalcium phosphate, l-lysine, choline chloride, natural and artificial flavors, dl methionine. Guaranteed Analysis Minimum Crude Protein-38% Minimum Crude Fat- 9% Maximum Crude Fiber- 2.5% Maximum Moisture-10% A piece of me likes that there are so many actual fruits and veggies, and that there are very few chemicals. Who eats the floating food? Primarily my tinfoils, and my pl*co too. You'll probably ask so this is their primary sinking food and they seem to LOVE it: INGREDIENTS: Marine & Plant Protein Products, Fish Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Blood Meal, Liquid Fish Soluble, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pellet Binder, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridox no Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), Thiamine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Zinc Sulfate, Manganous Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodate. GUARANTEED ANALYSIS Crude Protein 40% Min. Crude Fat 9% Min. Crude Fiber 4% Max ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47221	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old

Lenny, You KNOW I'm kidding! I had already thought about all the things you're just now saying here, including the fact that while he's large, he's still stunted if he were only 1/4 of his present age. Couldn't resist the joshing though, as sometimes the volumes of water given for a fish seem like overkill -- but the members here do need to take these recommendations seriously if they want to properly maintain their fish. The "overkill" probably comes from realizing that, just as you're saying, fish can be kept in small quarters than are recommended provided adequate water changing is done (note, I didn't say PWC -- "partial," as it may take a constant flow). Hobbyists should never try to tempt fate in this manner though, as they'll sooner or later fail at it. BTW, I also read where they did that same experiment (Oscar in a 10 gallon tank) with trout, and they grew to a normal size, not that one should attempt it in the home aquarium. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

I don't think the first food is one of the better foods since the first four ingredients are "meals", which I consider to just be fillers... although fish meal isn't necessarily a bad thing as it simply means ground up fish stuff (usually leftovers after the main meat has been filleted off the carcass). I don't know of ANY fish in the wild that gets soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten... or for that matter, many of those other things, but at least many of the other ingredients would be complimentary ingredients for herbivores but the corn meals, soybean meals and corn gluten meals are usually the ingredients found in the cheapest of fish foods like Tetra or Store Brand foods. The second food sounds a little better although it would be nice if they expanded on the "Marine & Plant Protein Products". Here's the ingredients for General Freshwater Flakes for an Omega One Fish Food and for a New Life Spectrum (NLS) fish food. Omega One FW Flakes - http://omegasea.net/freshwater_flakes.html Guaranteed Analysis Min. Crude Protein..41% Min. Crude Fat...11% Max. Crude Fiber...2% Max. Moisture.... 8.5% Max Ash.......8% Min. Phosphorus..(.5%) Min. Omega 3 .... 2% Min. Omega 6......1% INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, Whole Krill, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), Ethoxyquin (Preservative). NLS - http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 0 All ingredients (for all of NLS foods) used are almost identical, since we cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL Alphatocophero ( E ), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Choline Chloride. (END SNIPS) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Floating Food What do you think of these ingredients as fish food? I usually mix 2 parts of sinking food to 1 part of floating food (by weight) and this would be the (new?) floating food. Ingredients fish meal, soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten meal, soya oil, coconut oil, wheat, calcium carbonate, raisins, coconut, papaya, apricot, banana, sweet potato, pineapple, apple, spinach, broccoli, carrots, dates, dicalcium phosphate, l-lysine, choline chloride, natural and artificial flavors, dl methionine. Guaranteed Analysis Minimum Crude Protein-38% Minimum Crude Fat- 9% Maximum Crude Fiber- 2.5% Maximum Moisture-10% A piece of me likes that there are so many actual fruits and veggies, and that there are very few chemicals. Who eats the floating food? Primarily my tinfoils, and my pl*co too. You'll probably ask so this is their primary sinking food and they seem to LOVE it: INGREDIENTS: Marine & Plant Protein Products, Fish Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Blood Meal, Liquid Fish Soluble, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pellet Binder, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridox no Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), Thiamine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Zinc Sulfate, Manganous Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodate. GUARANTEED ANALYSIS Crude Protein 40% Min. Crude Fat 9% Min. Crude Fiber 4% Max ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47223	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

OK, then it's not such a good thing. No flakes. They don't do flakes well. Pellets. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't think the first food is one of the better foods since the first four > ingredients are "meals", which I consider to just be fillers... although > fish meal isn't necessarily a bad thing as it simply means ground up fish > stuff (usually leftovers after the main meat has been filleted off the > carcass). I don't know of ANY fish in the wild that gets soybean meal, corn > meal, corn gluten... or for that matter, many of those other things, but at > least many of the other ingredients would be complimentary ingredients for > herbivores but the corn meals, soybean meals and corn gluten meals are > usually the ingredients found in the cheapest of fish foods like Tetra or > Store Brand foods. The second food sounds a little better although it would > be nice if they expanded on the "Marine & Plant Protein Products". > > Here's the ingredients for General Freshwater Flakes for an Omega One Fish > Food and for a New Life Spectrum (NLS) fish food. > > Omega One FW Flakes - http://omegasea.net/freshwater_flakes.html > > Guaranteed Analysis > Min. Crude Protein..41% > Min. Crude Fat...11% > Max. Crude Fiber...2% > Max. Moisture.... 8.5% > Max Ash.......8% > Min. Phosphorus..(.5%) > Min. Omega 3 .... 2% > Min. Omega 6......1% > > INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whole Herring, Whole Shrimp, > Whole Krill, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, > L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, > Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 > Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, > Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), > Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > > > NLS - > http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 > 0 > > All ingredients (for all of NLS foods) used are almost identical, since we > cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude > analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients incorporated > into a specific formula. > > Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat > Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, > Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red > Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, > Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal-Sterol > (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL Alphatocophero ( E ), Riboflavin > Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine > Hydrochloride, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Ethylenediamine > dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese > Sulfate, Choline Chloride. > (END SNIPS) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > What do you think of these ingredients as fish food? > > I usually mix 2 parts of sinking food to 1 part of floating food (by weight) > and this would be the (new?) floating food. > > > Ingredients > fish meal, soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten meal, soya oil, coconut oil, > wheat, calcium carbonate, raisins, coconut, papaya, apricot, banana, sweet > potato, pineapple, apple, spinach, broccoli, carrots, dates, dicalcium > phosphate, l-lysine, choline chloride, natural and artificial flavors, dl > methionine. > > Guaranteed Analysis > Minimum Crude Protein-38% > Minimum Crude Fat- 9% > Maximum Crude Fiber- 2.5% > Maximum Moisture-10% > > > A piece of me likes that there are so many actual fruits and veggies, and > that there are very few chemicals. > > Who eats the floating food? Primarily my tinfoils, and my pl*co too. > > > You'll probably ask so this is their primary sinking food and they seem to > LOVE it: > > INGREDIENTS: > Marine & Plant Protein Products, Fish Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Blood > Meal, Liquid Fish Soluble, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pellet Binder, Dicalcium > Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, > Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridox no > Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, > L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), Thiamine > Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Zinc Sulfate, > Manganous Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodate. > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS > Crude Protein 40% Min. > Crude Fat 9% Min. > Crude Fiber 4% Max > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47224	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old

Yeah. I know you were kidding (you put plenty of <g> and LOL's and HaHa's) but I still like to drive home proper tank sizes to any new members who may be lurking. It's just so much easier on the fish and the fish keeper to start off with the right sized tank since most fish should grow to nearly full size in the first 1-3 years. I can't imagine someone starting off knowing they will be changing tanks ever few months as the fish grows... if they know better to start with. I read a summary of the trout experiment where they had the fish living in clear tubes with a constant flow of water through the tube, at varying rates, so the fish was constantly swimming at various speeds just like it would in the wild but it was only a tube a few feet long so the fish still stayed in place for observation purposes. I've also read studies for the aquaculture industry where they used the same number of fry (hundreds) in several ponds with varying flow rates of fresh water into each pond until they found the minimum amount of fresh water flowing into the pond that they could use and still get adequate growth out of the fish so they would yield maximum food value for the lowest cost possible. Note that they are just trying to grow the fish to a decent size so they could harvest the fish and get fish filets off of them. They weren't trying to grow them to full size and didn't care if they lived a full life once they reached a certain size. I don't have a problem with this since it's for feeding us and other folks, not for pets. Same with chickens, cows, etc. Mmmmm.. too bad it's Lent or I'd have to go out and buy some baby milk fed veal... but instead I have to eat FISH!!! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Not a fish tale! Pet pacu Buttkiss is 43 years old Lenny, You KNOW I'm kidding! I had already thought about all the things you're just now saying here, including the fact that while he's large, he's still stunted if he were only 1/4 of his present age. Couldn't resist the joshing though, as sometimes the volumes of water given for a fish seem like overkill -- but the members here do need to take these recommendations seriously if they want to properly maintain their fish. The "overkill" probably comes from realizing that, just as you're saying, fish can be kept in small quarters than are recommended provided adequate water changing is done (note, I didn't say PWC -- "partial," as it may take a constant flow). Hobbyists should never try to tempt fate in this manner though, as they'll sooner or later fail at it. BTW, I also read where they did that same experiment (Oscar in a 10 gallon tank) with trout, and they grew to a normal size, not that one should attempt it in the home aquarium. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47225	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Both of the brands I gave links to have all types of foods from flakes to pellets to discs and from floating to sinking types. They also have various formulas for different types of fish that should be on a certain type of diet. I just used the General FW Flakes ingredients for comparison. The other fish foods will have different percentages of primary ingredients. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 3:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Floating Food OK, then it's not such a good thing. No flakes. They don't do flakes well. Pellets. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't think the first food is one of the better foods since the > first four ingredients are "meals", which I consider to just be > fillers... although fish meal isn't necessarily a bad thing as it > simply means ground up fish stuff (usually leftovers after the main > meat has been filleted off the carcass). I don't know of ANY fish in > the wild that gets soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten... or for that > matter, many of those other things, but at least many of the other > ingredients would be complimentary ingredients for herbivores but the > corn meals, soybean meals and corn gluten meals are usually the > ingredients found in the cheapest of fish foods like Tetra or Store > Brand foods. The second food sounds a little better although it would be nice if they expanded on the "Marine & Plant Protein Products". > > Here's the ingredients for General Freshwater Flakes for an Omega One > Fish Food and for a New Life Spectrum (NLS) fish food. > > Omega One FW Flakes - http://omegasea.net/freshwater_flakes.html > > Guaranteed Analysis > Min. Crude Protein..41% > Min. Crude Fat...11% > Max. Crude Fiber...2% > Max. Moisture.... 8.5% > Max Ash.......8% > Min. Phosphorus..(.5%) > Min. Omega 3 .... 2% > Min. Omega 6......1% > > INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whole Herring, Whole > Shrimp, Whole Krill, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, > Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and > Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E > Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic > Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), > Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > > > NLS - > http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 0 OR http://tinyurl.com/yzlge85 > > All ingredients (for all NLS foods) used are almost identical, > since we cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, > the crude analysis will be different due to the percentage of > ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. > > Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, > Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta > Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, > Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, > Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, > D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL > Alphatocophero ( E ), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, > Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, > L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, > Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Choline Chloride. > (END SNIPS) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > What do you think of these ingredients as fish food? > > I usually mix 2 parts of sinking food to 1 part of floating food (by > weight) and this would be the (new?) floating food. > > > Ingredients > fish meal, soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten meal, soya oil, > coconut oil, wheat, calcium carbonate, raisins, coconut, papaya, > apricot, banana, sweet potato, pineapple, apple, spinach, broccoli, > carrots, dates, dicalcium phosphate, l-lysine, choline chloride, > natural and artificial flavors, dl methionine. > > Guaranteed Analysis > Minimum Crude Protein-38% > Minimum Crude Fat- 9% > Maximum Crude Fiber- 2.5% > Maximum Moisture-10% > > > A piece of me likes that there are so many actual fruits and veggies, > and that there are very few chemicals. > > Who eats the floating food? Primarily my tinfoils, and my pl*co too. > > > You'll probably ask so this is their primary sinking food and they > seem to LOVE it: > > INGREDIENTS: > Marine & Plant Protein Products, Fish Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, > Blood Meal, Liquid Fish Soluble, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pellet Binder, > Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 > Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, > Pyridox no Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, > L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), Thiamine > Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Zinc Sulfate, > Manganous Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodate. > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS > Crude Protein 40% Min. > Crude Fat 9% Min. > Crude Fiber 4% Max > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47226	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Lenny - I just made DIY fishfood for the first time (still washing up) and I used a recipe that called for hard boiled eggs (along with lots of fish, spirulina, vegetables and so forth). What do you think about whole chicken eggs as an ingredient for fishfood? It's a little bit of a stretch isn't it? But I'm sure it makes a good complete protein. Somehow, I feel more comfortable with lots of fish and seaweeds rather than soy, grains, eggs and other land-based foods. But I am a novice with this, so not sure... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 12, 2010, at 4:02 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I don't think the first food is one of the better foods since the > first four > ingredients are "meals", which I consider to just be fillers... > although > fish meal isn't necessarily a bad thing as it simply means ground > up fish > stuff (usually leftovers after the main meat has been filleted off the > carcass). I don't know of ANY fish in the wild that gets soybean > meal, corn > meal, corn gluten... or for that matter, many of those other > things, but at > least many of the other ingredients would be complimentary > ingredients for > herbivores but the corn meals, soybean meals and corn gluten meals are > usually the ingredients found in the cheapest of fish foods like > Tetra or > Store Brand foods. The second food sounds a little better although > it would > be nice if they expanded on the "Marine & Plant Protein Products". > > Here's the ingredients for General Freshwater Flakes for an Omega > One Fish > Food and for a New Life Spectrum (NLS) fish food. > > Omega One FW Flakes - http://omegasea.net/freshwater_flakes.html > > Guaranteed Analysis > Min. Crude Protein..41% > Min. Crude Fat...11% > Max. Crude Fiber...2% > Max. Moisture.... 8.5% > Max Ash.......8% > Min. Phosphorus..(.5%) > Min. Omega 3 .... 2% > Min. Omega 6......1% > > INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whole Herring, Whole > Shrimp, > Whole Krill, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, > Astaxanthin, > L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and > Artificial Colors, > Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, > Vitamin B12 > Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, > Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), > Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > > NLS - > http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php? > option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 > 0 > > All ingredients (for all of NLS foods) used are almost identical, > since we > cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude > analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients > incorporated > into a specific formula. > > Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring > Meal, Wheat > Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, > Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red > Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, > Apricot, Mango, > Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal- > Sterol > (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL Alphatocophero ( E ), > Riboflavin > Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, > Pyridoxine > Hydrochloride, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Ethylenediamine > dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, > Manganese > Sulfate, Choline Chloride. > (END SNIPS) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > What do you think of these ingredients as fish food? > > I usually mix 2 parts of sinking food to 1 part of floating food > (by weight) > and this would be the (new?) floating food. > > Ingredients > fish meal, soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten meal, soya oil, > coconut oil, > wheat, calcium carbonate, raisins, coconut, papaya, apricot, > banana, sweet > potato, pineapple, apple, spinach, broccoli, carrots, dates, dicalcium > phosphate, l-lysine, choline chloride, natural and artificial > flavors, dl > methionine. > > Guaranteed Analysis > Minimum Crude Protein-38% > Minimum Crude Fat- 9% > Maximum Crude Fiber- 2.5% > Maximum Moisture-10% > > A piece of me likes that there are so many actual fruits and > veggies, and > that there are very few chemicals. > > Who eats the floating food? Primarily my tinfoils, and my pl*co too. > > You'll probably ask so this is their primary sinking food and they > seem to > LOVE it: > > INGREDIENTS: > Marine & Plant Protein Products, Fish Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, > Blood > Meal, Liquid Fish Soluble, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pellet Binder, > Dicalcium > Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 > Supplement, > Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridox no > Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, > L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), Thiamine > Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Zinc Sulfate, > Manganous Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodate. > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS > Crude Protein 40% Min. > Crude Fat 9% Min. > Crude Fiber 4% Max > ~Kai > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47227	From: Noura	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Africans food question

Does this advise apply for the other fish (Zebra Danios, Tetras, and Clown Loaches) when I take the cichlids to their own tank? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Africans food question I'd certainly skip that raw cow/beef meat for these fish, and they don't need the crushed hard-boiled egg white either. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47228	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

The first 8 ingredients aren’t too hot IMO. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 3:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Floating Food What do you think of these ingredients as fish food? I usually mix 2 parts of sinking food to 1 part of floating food (by weight) and this would be the (new?) floating food. Ingredients fish meal, soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten meal, soya oil, coconut oil, wheat, calcium carbonate, raisins, coconut, papaya, apricot, banana, sweet potato, pineapple, apple, spinach, broccoli, carrots, dates, dicalcium phosphate, l-lysine, choline chloride, natural and artificial flavors, dl methionine. Guaranteed Analysis Minimum Crude Protein-38% Minimum Crude Fat- 9% Maximum Crude Fiber- 2.5% Maximum Moisture-10% A piece of me likes that there are so many actual fruits and veggies, and that there are very few chemicals. Who eats the floating food? Primarily my tinfoils, and my pl*co too. You'll probably ask so this is their primary sinking food and they seem to LOVE it: INGREDIENTS: Marine & Plant Protein Products, Fish Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, Blood Meal, Liquid Fish Soluble, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pellet Binder, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridox no Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), Thiamine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Zinc Sulfate, Manganous Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodate. GUARANTEED ANALYSIS Crude Protein 40% Min. Crude Fat 9% Min. Crude Fiber 4% Max ~Kai [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47229	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

I believe egg yolks are too high in protein (or something else, I can't remember now), I just remember being told that you should only use the egg whites for fish food (on this group, about oh... a year ago now, lol). No clue who said it now though... Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Lenny - > > I just made DIY fishfood for the first time (still washing up) and I > used a recipe that called for hard boiled eggs (along with lots of > fish, spirulina, vegetables and so forth). What do you think about > whole chicken eggs as an ingredient for fishfood? It's a little bit > of a stretch isn't it? But I'm sure it makes a good complete protein. > Somehow, I feel more comfortable with lots of fish and seaweeds > rather than soy, grains, eggs and other land-based foods. > > But I am a novice with this, so not sure... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 4:02 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> I don't think the first food is one of the better foods since the >> first four >> ingredients are "meals", which I consider to just be fillers... >> although >> fish meal isn't necessarily a bad thing as it simply means ground >> up fish >> stuff (usually leftovers after the main meat has been filleted off the >> carcass). I don't know of ANY fish in the wild that gets soybean >> meal, corn >> meal, corn gluten... or for that matter, many of those other >> things, but at >> least many of the other ingredients would be complimentary >> ingredients for >> herbivores but the corn meals, soybean meals and corn gluten meals are >> usually the ingredients found in the cheapest of fish foods like >> Tetra or >> Store Brand foods. The second food sounds a little better although >> it would >> be nice if they expanded on the "Marine & Plant Protein Products". >> >> Here's the ingredients for General Freshwater Flakes for an Omega >> One Fish >> Food and for a New Life Spectrum (NLS) fish food. >> >> Omega One FW Flakes - http://omegasea.net/freshwater_flakes.html >> >> Guaranteed Analysis >> Min. Crude Protein..41% >> Min. Crude Fat...11% >> Max. Crude Fiber...2% >> Max. Moisture.... 8.5% >> Max Ash.......8% >> Min. Phosphorus..(.5%) >> Min. Omega 3 .... 2% >> Min. Omega 6......1% >> >> INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whole Herring, Whole >> Shrimp, >> Whole Krill, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, >> Astaxanthin, >> L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and >> Artificial Colors, >> Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, >> Vitamin B12 >> Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, >> Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), >> Ethoxyquin (Preservative). >> >> NLS - >> http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php? >> option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 >> 0 >> >> All ingredients (for all of NLS foods) used are almost identical, >> since we >> cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the crude >> analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients >> incorporated >> into a specific formula. >> >> Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring >> Meal, Wheat >> Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, >> Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red >> Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, >> Apricot, Mango, >> Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal- >> Sterol >> (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL Alphatocophero ( E ), >> Riboflavin >> Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, >> Pyridoxine >> Hydrochloride, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Ethylenediamine >> dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, >> Manganese >> Sulfate, Choline Chloride. >> (END SNIPS) >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of kuradi8 >> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:21 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Floating Food >> >> What do you think of these ingredients as fish food? >> >> I usually mix 2 parts of sinking food to 1 part of floating food >> (by weight) >> and this would be the (new?) floating food. >> >> Ingredients >> fish meal, soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten meal, soya oil, >> coconut oil, >> wheat, calcium carbonate, raisins, coconut, papaya, apricot, >> banana, sweet >> potato, pineapple, apple, spinach, broccoli, carrots, dates, dicalcium >> phosphate, l-lysine, choline chloride, natural and artificial >> flavors, dl >> methionine. >> >> Guaranteed Analysis >> Minimum Crude Protein-38% >> Minimum Crude Fat- 9% >> Maximum Crude Fiber- 2.5% >> Maximum Moisture-10% >> >> A piece of me likes that there are so many actual fruits and >> veggies, and >> that there are very few chemicals. >> >> Who eats the floating food? Primarily my tinfoils, and my pl*co too. >> >> You'll probably ask so this is their primary sinking food and they >> seem to >> LOVE it: >> >> INGREDIENTS: >> Marine & Plant Protein Products, Fish Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, >> Blood >> Meal, Liquid Fish Soluble, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pellet Binder, >> Dicalcium >> Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 >> Supplement, >> Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridox no >> Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, >> L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), Thiamine >> Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Zinc Sulfate, >> Manganous Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodate. >> >> GUARANTEED ANALYSIS >> Crude Protein 40% Min. >> Crude Fat 9% Min. >> Crude Fiber 4% Max >> ~Kai >> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47230	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed

Ray, I think, from your comments, you have a bit to learn about the AR (animal rights) people. First, their goals have absolutely nothing to do with what they say in public. They really want to do away with animals and all human use and contact with them. They would have all humanity to become vegan like most of them are, but are willing to settle for vegetarianism for the time being. The wealthiest and the one doing most of the damage right now is the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS). I'm sure that if you watch cable, you have seen their begging ads. Here is a piece entitled "7 Things You Didn't Know about HSUS" http://www.consumerfreedom.com/article_detail.cfm/a/184-7-things-you-didnt-k now-about-hsus http://tinyurl.com/yfpkc9z they plan and participate in "raids" of breeders who they say are running "puppy mills" and abusing their dogs. They even video tape these raids to show that these are really evil people, but normally the tapes they release do not show what they are claiming, and, on the rare occasions that the tapes do, you can place a bet that it was staged, and not representative of the true conditions found. They then dump the collected dogs on a local group, or groups, and go off in search of their next publicity stunt. These dogs are then so sickly and in such sad shape, that most of them are adopted out within days of the raid, when, in reality, they should be held as evidence for the trial which almost never happens, because there never were any charges filed, or if they were, they were dismissed, and the people are now out their dogs. There are tons of stories like this out there. I can go on and on about this. So, where does the money HSUS raises go? To lobbying. Take California, for instance. A law was put into effect by a referendum vote. Among other things, it goes against years of animal husbandry experience, and scientific research, creating standards that will actually lessen the yield of animals for the farmers. Take for example the plight of egg producers in California. Within the next few years, they need to give their laying hens more space than is now necessary for optimum health and egg production. This means that new structures will need to be built that will contain less chickens, and lower production and raise the cost of eggs. There is a lot more stuff going on as well. But let it be sufficient to say they have the dogs and cats well in hand, and are now going after farm animals. They are also beginning to focus on reptiles, and the baby eating constrictor snakes, especially in Florida. They are also beginning to focus on exotic birds and exotic animals, such as lions and tigers. Fish cannot be too far behind. Remember the talk about HB669 here last year? I am sure you know something about PeTA. Can't hardly miss them with their publicity seeking stunts. Most people think they are nuts. You can consider HSUS to be PeTA in suits. Fortunately, the tide seems to be turning. It is slow and painful, but it does seem to be turning. The recent RICO lawsuit filed by Feld Entertainment could go a long way in giving impetus to the turning. Feld Entertainment is the company that owns, among other things, Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey Circus. Late last year, a lawsuit brought against Feld and the circus was dismissed after a 9 year battle. Basically, the judge ruled that the main witness (plaintiff) was a paid plaintiff, receiving more than $190,000 over the years, and that his testimony could not be trusted. The suit was originally brought by the Animal Protection Institute, and joined by a number of other groups, among them the ASPCA, The Fund for Animals (which was merges with HSUS a couple of years after the lawsuit started), and The Animal Welfare Institute. The list of people and groups being sued by Feld is: * The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS); * The Fund for Animals (which merged with HSUS in 2004); * Jonathan Lovvorn, an attorney employed by HSUS; * Kimberly Ockene, an attorney employed by HSUS; * The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA); * The Animal Welfare Institute; * The Animal Protection Institute (d/b/a/ Born Free USA); * Tom Rider (a discredited witness in a recently dismissed lawsuit against Feld, who a judge ruled was paid at least $190,000 for his testimony); * Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal (the outside law firm which handled that lawsuit against Feld); * Katherine Meyer (of Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal); * Eric Glitzenstein (of Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal); * Howard Crystal (of Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal); and * The Wildlife Advocacy Project (a nonprofit organization founded and managed by Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal, which was used as a pass-through vehicle to allow animal rights groups to pay Tom Rider for his discredited testimony against Feld). This is the gist of the suit: "[D]efendants have perpetrated and continue to perpetrate multiple schemes to permanently ban Asian elephants in circuses, to defraud FEI of money and property and/or to unjustly enrich themselves, with the ultimate objective of banning Asian elephants in all forms of entertainment and captivity. To carry out these schemes, defendants conspired to conduct and conducted the Enterprise through a pattern of, among other things, bribery and illegal gratuity payments (in violation of both state and federal law), obstruction of justice, mail fraud, wire fraud and money laundering." You can read the filing at: http://humanewatch.org/images/uploads/2010-02-16_Feld_RICO.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ye9t3aj I could throw a lot more links at you about the AR movement, but, if you are interested, take a look at http://humanewatch.org/ http://www.consumerfreedom.com/ and, for the other side: http://www.humanesociety.org http://www.aspca.org \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hundreds of expensive tropical fish killed \\Steve//, I'm guessing you must have read all or most of the comments, that you've included as links, relating to this tragedy? I noted in your link to addtional comments, just before you signed off, the quote that was included in the news story by "The Star" newspaper of Canada where the OSPCA (Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) stated they could not get involved because "The case would not fall under animal cruelty because fish are non-vertebrates. The further describe "vertebrate"as, "according to the Act, "animal" means a live non-human vertebrate." Are these people INSANE? Their very description is THE REASON why they should get involved. Anyone remotely familiar with fish KNOWS that fish ARE vertebrates (they are not "non-vertebrates"). I think these people need to go back to school , and I'm not talking about the university that they graduated from, but SEVENTH GRADE SCIENCE. A "vertebrate" is an animal (ANY animal) with a backbone, having it's spinal cord encased by it, and fish fall into that category -- they always DID. There are five known classes of vertebrates: mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and FISH. Albeit, fish are aquatic vertebrates, but they ARE vertebrates non the less -- and they ARE animals. I believe even sharks are vertebrates but because their backbone is made up of cartilage instead of bone, they are included as "fish." Corals would not be included of course, even though they're animals, and as such wouldn't come under their jurisdiction. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47231	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Well, the fish were spitting out little hunks of eggwhite, and I read Ray saying eggwhite is pretty useless. So, I think I'll skip it next time. The Ram babies were the only ones who really really loved my cooking:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:05 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I believe egg yolks are too high in protein (or something else, I > can't > remember now), I just remember being told that you should only use the > egg whites for fish food (on this group, about oh... a year ago now, > lol). No clue who said it now though... > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Lenny - > > > > I just made DIY fishfood for the first time (still washing up) and I > > used a recipe that called for hard boiled eggs (along with lots of > > fish, spirulina, vegetables and so forth). What do you think about > > whole chicken eggs as an ingredient for fishfood? It's a little bit > > of a stretch isn't it? But I'm sure it makes a good complete > protein. > > Somehow, I feel more comfortable with lots of fish and seaweeds > > rather than soy, grains, eggs and other land-based foods. > > > > But I am a novice with this, so not sure... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 4:02 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > >> I don't think the first food is one of the better foods since the > >> first four > >> ingredients are "meals", which I consider to just be fillers... > >> although > >> fish meal isn't necessarily a bad thing as it simply means ground > >> up fish > >> stuff (usually leftovers after the main meat has been filleted > off the > >> carcass). I don't know of ANY fish in the wild that gets soybean > >> meal, corn > >> meal, corn gluten... or for that matter, many of those other > >> things, but at > >> least many of the other ingredients would be complimentary > >> ingredients for > >> herbivores but the corn meals, soybean meals and corn gluten > meals are > >> usually the ingredients found in the cheapest of fish foods like > >> Tetra or > >> Store Brand foods. The second food sounds a little better although > >> it would > >> be nice if they expanded on the "Marine & Plant Protein Products". > >> > >> Here's the ingredients for General Freshwater Flakes for an Omega > >> One Fish > >> Food and for a New Life Spectrum (NLS) fish food. > >> > >> Omega One FW Flakes - http://omegasea.net/freshwater_flakes.html > >> > >> Guaranteed Analysis > >> Min. Crude Protein..41% > >> Min. Crude Fat...11% > >> Max. Crude Fiber...2% > >> Max. Moisture.... 8.5% > >> Max Ash.......8% > >> Min. Phosphorus..(.5%) > >> Min. Omega 3 .... 2% > >> Min. Omega 6......1% > >> > >> INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whole Herring, Whole > >> Shrimp, > >> Whole Krill, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, > >> Astaxanthin, > >> L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and > >> Artificial Colors, > >> Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, > >> Vitamin B12 > >> Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, > Biotin, > >> Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), > >> Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > >> > >> NLS - > >> http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php? > >> option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 > >> 0 > >> > >> All ingredients (for all of NLS foods) used are almost identical, > >> since we > >> cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, the > crude > >> analysis will be different due to the percentage of ingredients > >> incorporated > >> into a specific formula. > >> > >> Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring > >> Meal, Wheat > >> Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta > Carotene, > >> Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, > Broccoli, Red > >> Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, > >> Apricot, Mango, > >> Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal- > >> Sterol > >> (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL Alphatocophero ( E ), > >> Riboflavin > >> Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, > >> Pyridoxine > >> Hydrochloride, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), > Ethylenediamine > >> dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, > >> Manganese > >> Sulfate, Choline Chloride. > >> (END SNIPS) > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > >> right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >> Behalf Of kuradi8 > >> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:21 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > >> > >> What do you think of these ingredients as fish food? > >> > >> I usually mix 2 parts of sinking food to 1 part of floating food > >> (by weight) > >> and this would be the (new?) floating food. > >> > >> Ingredients > >> fish meal, soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten meal, soya oil, > >> coconut oil, > >> wheat, calcium carbonate, raisins, coconut, papaya, apricot, > >> banana, sweet > >> potato, pineapple, apple, spinach, broccoli, carrots, dates, > dicalcium > >> phosphate, l-lysine, choline chloride, natural and artificial > >> flavors, dl > >> methionine. > >> > >> Guaranteed Analysis > >> Minimum Crude Protein-38% > >> Minimum Crude Fat- 9% > >> Maximum Crude Fiber- 2.5% > >> Maximum Moisture-10% > >> > >> A piece of me likes that there are so many actual fruits and > >> veggies, and > >> that there are very few chemicals. > >> > >> Who eats the floating food? Primarily my tinfoils, and my pl*co > too. > >> > >> You'll probably ask so this is their primary sinking food and they > >> seem to > >> LOVE it: > >> > >> INGREDIENTS: > >> Marine & Plant Protein Products, Fish Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, > >> Blood > >> Meal, Liquid Fish Soluble, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pellet Binder, > >> Dicalcium > >> Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 > >> Supplement, > >> Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridox no > >> Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, > >> L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), > Thiamine > >> Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Zinc > Sulfate, > >> Manganous Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium > Iodate. > >> > >> GUARANTEED ANALYSIS > >> Crude Protein 40% Min. > >> Crude Fat 9% Min. > >> Crude Fiber 4% Max > >> ~Kai > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47232	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

I've never used hard boiled eggs in any of my DIY recipes but I know that crumbled hard boiled eggs are used as a fish fry food since they are high in protein so I'm sure it's fine as an ingredient in DIY fish food for adults. At least it's cheap. Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken eggs. Scroll down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html Here's the snip from that section that talks about hard boiled egg crumbles for fish fry. HERE ARE A FEW BUILDING BLOCK INGREDIENTS: AMINO ACIDS: An amino acid is any molecule that contains both amines (organic compounds that contain nitrogen as the key atom. Structurally amines resemble ammonia) and Carboxylic acids (organic acids characterized by the presence of a carboxyl group). Amino acids are used as the basic components of proteins. The net protein utilization is profoundly affected by the limiting amino acid content or protein quality (the essential amino acid found in the smallest quantity in the foodstuff), and somewhat affected by salvage of essential amino acids in the body. It is therefore a good idea to mix foodstuffs that have different weaknesses in their essential amino acid distributions. This limits the loss of nitrogen through deamination and increases overall net protein utilization. Eggs (whether fish or even chicken) have the highest protein quality of any source. Which makes hard boiled egg crumbles an excellent food source for fry. DL-methionine is an essential amino acid for producing the “Lionhead” feature in goldfish. Methionine is one of eight essential amino acids. High levels of methionine can be found in the vegetable proteins of spinach, green peas, garlic, and Vegetable protein extract which is used in many commercial foods such as Sanyu Koi and Goldfish Food. DL-methionine can also be found in whole fish meal. Other essential Amino acids include (essential meaning amino acids that cannot be produced within the fish’ body from other nutrients and proteins): Arginine, Histidine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine + Cystine3, Phenylalanine + Tryosine4, Threonine, Tryptophan, and Valine. Other quality sources of usable amino acids include: Whole fish meal (salmon is best), Cylcops, fish roe, squid meal, and even spirulina algae. Bottom line; Not all protein sources are equal. An analogy used at a pet food seminar I attended was this: You can achieve the protein analysis on many pet foods with a used pair of leather shoes, but leather shoes contain little usable proteins. Another point as to grain or plant sources (Spirulina does NOT fall into this category), is that proteins in cereal grains and other plant concentrates do not contain complete amino acid profiles and usually are deficient in the essential amino acids lysine and methionine. (END SNIP) Read the entire article for more information especially explaining how there are different types of fish meals that are used in our fish foods, with one of them being much better than the other. Most fish foods do not state whether they are whole fish meal or fish meal from leftover parts after processing the fish fillets... which obviously isn't as good as whole fish meal. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Lenny - I just made DIY fishfood for the first time (still washing up) and I used a recipe that called for hard boiled eggs (along with lots of fish, spirulina, vegetables and so forth). What do you think about whole chicken eggs as an ingredient for fishfood? It's a little bit of a stretch isn't it? But I'm sure it makes a good complete protein. Somehow, I feel more comfortable with lots of fish and seaweeds rather than soy, grains, eggs and other land-based foods. But I am a novice with this, so not sure... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 12, 2010, at 4:02 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I don't think the first food is one of the better foods since the > first four ingredients are "meals", which I consider to just be > fillers... > although > fish meal isn't necessarily a bad thing as it simply means ground up > fish stuff (usually leftovers after the main meat has been filleted > off the carcass). I don't know of ANY fish in the wild that gets > soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten... or for that matter, many of > those other things, but at least many of the other ingredients would > be complimentary ingredients for herbivores but the corn meals, > soybean meals and corn gluten meals are usually the ingredients found > in the cheapest of fish foods like Tetra or Store Brand foods. The > second food sounds a little better although it would be nice if they > expanded on the "Marine & Plant Protein Products". > > Here's the ingredients for General Freshwater Flakes for an Omega One > Fish Food and for a New Life Spectrum (NLS) fish food. > > Omega One FW Flakes - http://omegasea.net/freshwater_flakes.html > > Guaranteed Analysis > Min. Crude Protein..41% > Min. Crude Fat...11% > Max. Crude Fiber...2% > Max. Moisture.... 8.5% > Max Ash.......8% > Min. Phosphorus..(.5%) > Min. Omega 3 .... 2% > Min. Omega 6......1% > > INGREDIENTS: Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whole Herring, Whole > Shrimp, Whole Krill, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Lecithin, > Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and > Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E > Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic > Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative), > Ethoxyquin (Preservative). > > NLS - > http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php? > option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=6 > 0 > > All ingredients (for all of NLS foods) used are almost identical, > since we cannot find anything better than what we are using. However, > the crude analysis will be different due to the percentage of > ingredients incorporated into a specific formula. > > Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, > Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta > Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, > Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, > Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, > D-Activated Animal- Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL > Alphatocophero ( E ), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, > Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, > L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, > Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, > Choline Chloride. > (END SNIPS) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > What do you think of these ingredients as fish food? > > I usually mix 2 parts of sinking food to 1 part of floating food (by > weight) and this would be the (new?) floating food. > > Ingredients > fish meal, soybean meal, corn meal, corn gluten meal, soya oil, > coconut oil, wheat, calcium carbonate, raisins, coconut, papaya, > apricot, banana, sweet potato, pineapple, apple, spinach, broccoli, > carrots, dates, dicalcium phosphate, l-lysine, choline chloride, > natural and artificial flavors, dl methionine. > > Guaranteed Analysis > Minimum Crude Protein-38% > Minimum Crude Fat- 9% > Maximum Crude Fiber- 2.5% > Maximum Moisture-10% > > A piece of me likes that there are so many actual fruits and veggies, > and that there are very few chemicals. > > Who eats the floating food? Primarily my tinfoils, and my pl*co too. > > You'll probably ask so this is their primary sinking food and they > seem to LOVE it: > > INGREDIENTS: > Marine & Plant Protein Products, Fish Meal, Soy Lecithin, Fish Oil, > Blood Meal, Liquid Fish Soluble, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pellet Binder, > Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 > Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, > Pyridox no Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, > L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), Thiamine > Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Zinc Sulfate, > Manganous Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodate. > > GUARANTEED ANALYSIS > Crude Protein 40% Min. > Crude Fat 9% Min. > Crude Fiber 4% Max > ~Kai > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47233	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4

Hmmmm.. interesting that it could be related to the intake rather then the return. I should have thought about the intake being a reason since Rena does have the throttle valve that can be put in prior to the returning water to slow down the water flow back into the tank, which would also slow down the intake water. I guess the pump must be on the back end of the water flow from the reservoir so that it assists with pumping water back up into the tank rather than pulling water down into the filter reservoir. I'll have to examine the motor housing and the way the lines come into it when I do filter maintenance on my Rena Canisters this weekend. But it still seems like it would be the returning water pressure that would have to build up for a leak to form, not the suction. I'll have to think about this more. Since you first reported the leak.. I guess a week or so ago, and I suggested doing filter maintenance and removing the motor housing (top) and checking for debris on the O-ring/Rubber seal area or on the top lip of the reservoir housing, have you done that... or is the only thing that you've done is remove the additional intake screening? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:50 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Leaking Rena XP 4 I actually had a screen cover over the intake filter and I'm pretty sure that's what helped cause the leaking, I removed it so the flow of water could be un-obstructed into the filter and have experienced no leaking since then (and since cleaning the filter on last friday), when I open it up tonight to clean it I'm going to take a closer peek to see if there are any other obstructions. I've noticed since removing the cover over the intake that ALL the fish are acting oddly, they are hovering near the surface (even my Severum), I'm not sure why they would be doing this, I haven't changed anything else in my routine. The filters were cleaned a week ago (due for another cleaning of course), did a PWC last week as well. I have a "bubble wand" in the tank so there should be more than plenty of oxygen (not to mention 2 powerheads and 2 canister filters). I did have to remove a HOB from the tank a little over a week ago though (the motor seems to have died, I need to inspect it closer too). I suppose it's possible that the HOB had most of the nitrifying bacteria and I lost too much when I removed the HOB. The fish didn't start this odd behavior until just a few days ago. I will have to test the water tonight to see what my pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates are at right at this exact moment, I didn't do that yet this week when the odd behavior started (between work and jury duty it hasn't been a fun week, lol). Amber bkmat62 wrote: > > Another thing that you may wish to clean is the the filter tubing. I > have had a similar experience with another manufacturer's canister > filter and found that cleaning the tubing resolved the problem. I > believe that the additional resistance to flow in the tube returning > the filtered water to the aquarium resulted in increased internal > filter pressure and a leak. Try cleaning the tubing, it can't hurt and > may solve your problem. > > Bob > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > The drips are occurring at the clips and it's dripping onto the > > floor from the bottom of each clip (at least 2 clips were dripping > > but it was a large puddle so I assume all 4 were dripping at some > > point), but > all 4 > > clips are pushed in correctly, the drip is happening around the > > edge, and appeared to only be on one side when I was checking the > > canister filter over before I opened it and started cleaning it. > > *salutes* Yes Sir! will report back in, in the next 24-48 hours max > > ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > One other thing. Make sure all four clamps are clipped in > properly. I'm > > > not sure if you've ever noticed but they can come un-hinged from > > > the canister bottom where they snap into little C-holders and then > they won't > > > clamp down properly and that one corner will leak since it's not > holding > > > down the motor housing as tightly as the other clamps. > > > > > > Report back with what was wrong and your results so I'll know if > > > these suggestions worked. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:50 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > > > Thanks Lenny I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm not so tired, see > > > if I can find any debris blocking the seal, or anything else that > > > may be > out of > > > place > > > in the motor part of the "lid". > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > When you do maintenance, make sure you wipe the top of the > > > > plastic canister and also check for any debris on the rubber > > > > seal on the > motor > > > > housing where it sits on top of the canister. If some debris > > > > ends up breaking the seal between the rubber seal and the > > > > plastic top of the canister, it can leak. > > > > I've never had that happen on either of my Rena's but I don't > have an > > > > XP-4 but they are built the same except the XP-4 is taller and > > > > has a bigger motor. The reason it might not be happening right > > > > away is > that > > > > the water is flowing back up to the tank easily when the filter > media > > > > is clean but as it clogs up, there is some back pressure > > > > building up inside the canister and that puts more pressure on > > > > any possible > areas > > > > that might be prone to leak. > > > > Use a flashlight and look around the lip of the motor housing to > > > > see if you can see where the leak is coming from so you will > > > > know > where to > > > > look on the top of the canister or on the rubber seal. Hopefully > it's > > > > not damaged and just some kind of debris. If the top of the > > > > plastic canister lip is dinged, you could probably fill that in > > > > with some epoxy and then sand it down to be even with the rest > > > > of the lip. If it's the rubber seal that's damaged, you can buy > > > > a new one from > Rena. > > > > I've never looked at mine closely, other than to check for > > > > debris so it may even be an O-ring shoved up into the motor > > > > housing that sits down onto the canister lip. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:27 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > > > > > So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 canister > filter? > > > > I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this week > (had a > > > > HOB die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last week, > > > > but the HOB is not there this week so I now know it's the Rena > > > > XP 4 > that's > > > > slowly dripping around the "lid" of the canister). > > > > These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm > > > > wondering how/why it may be doing this. > > > > It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about > half way > > > > through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was > > > > barely dirty, so it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. > > > > I clean it every week like all my other filters. > > > > I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 that > I use > > > > on my > > > > 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have on > > > > my > > > > 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the > > > > manufacturing process? If so I'd think I would have noticed the > leak a > > > > long time ago, these are around a year old now. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > > the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47234	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4

I didn't get a chance to open it up this week. Jury duty caused me to get behind at work so I had to work long hours the rest of the week *sigh* glad it's over now though. I did a PWC tonight on my tanks, planning on cleaning the filters tomorrow afternoon/morning. There have been no leaks since last week when I cleaned the filter and put it all back together, and only 2 or 3 days ago I took the cover off the intake filter (I should call it the snail protector, LOL). I don't mind if the filter sucks up some platy and guppy fry (at this point the darn things are expendable, very expendable, LOL). Want me to look for anything particular while cleaning the filters tomorrow? I've had 2 dead fish so far this week.... and one bleeding heart seems to be suffering from dropsy for some strange reason (this was before my PWC). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Hmmmm.. interesting that it could be related to the intake rather then the > return. I should have thought about the intake being a reason since Rena > does have the throttle valve that can be put in prior to the returning > water > to slow down the water flow back into the tank, which would also slow down > the intake water. I guess the pump must be on the back end of the water > flow from the reservoir so that it assists with pumping water back up into > the tank rather than pulling water down into the filter reservoir. I'll > have to examine the motor housing and the way the lines come into it > when I > do filter maintenance on my Rena Canisters this weekend. But it still > seems > like it would be the returning water pressure that would have to build up > for a leak to form, not the suction. I'll have to think about this more. > > Since you first reported the leak.. I guess a week or so ago, and I > suggested doing filter maintenance and removing the motor housing > (top) and > checking for debris on the O-ring/Rubber seal area or on the top lip > of the > reservoir housing, have you done that... or is the only thing that you've > done is remove the additional intake screening? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:50 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Leaking Rena XP 4 > > I actually had a screen cover over the intake filter and I'm pretty sure > that's what helped cause the leaking, I removed it so the flow of water > could be un-obstructed into the filter and have experienced no leaking > since > then (and since cleaning the filter on last friday), when I open it up > tonight to clean it I'm going to take a closer peek to see if there > are any > other obstructions. > > I've noticed since removing the cover over the intake that ALL the > fish are > acting oddly, they are hovering near the surface (even my Severum), > I'm not > sure why they would be doing this, I haven't changed anything else in my > routine. The filters were cleaned a week ago (due for another cleaning of > course), did a PWC last week as well. I have a "bubble wand" > in the tank so there should be more than plenty of oxygen (not to > mention 2 > powerheads and 2 canister filters). I did have to remove a HOB from > the tank > a little over a week ago though (the motor seems to have died, I need to > inspect it closer too). I suppose it's possible that the HOB had most > of the > nitrifying bacteria and I lost too much when I removed the HOB. The fish > didn't start this odd behavior until just a few days ago. > I will have to test the water tonight to see what my pH, ammonia, nitrite, > and nitrates are at right at this exact moment, I didn't do that yet this > week when the odd behavior started (between work and jury duty it hasn't > been a fun week, lol). > > Amber > > bkmat62 wrote: > > > > Another thing that you may wish to clean is the the filter tubing. I > > have had a similar experience with another manufacturer's canister > > filter and found that cleaning the tubing resolved the problem. I > > believe that the additional resistance to flow in the tube returning > > the filtered water to the aquarium resulted in increased internal > > filter pressure and a leak. Try cleaning the tubing, it can't hurt and > > may solve your problem. > > > > Bob > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > The drips are occurring at the clips and it's dripping onto the > > > floor from the bottom of each clip (at least 2 clips were dripping > > > but it was a large puddle so I assume all 4 were dripping at some > > > point), but > > all 4 > > > clips are pushed in correctly, the drip is happening around the > > > edge, and appeared to only be on one side when I was checking the > > > canister filter over before I opened it and started cleaning it. > > > *salutes* Yes Sir! will report back in, in the next 24-48 hours max > > > ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > One other thing. Make sure all four clamps are clipped in > > properly. I'm > > > > not sure if you've ever noticed but they can come un-hinged from > > > > the canister bottom where they snap into little C-holders and then > > they won't > > > > clamp down properly and that one corner will leak since it's not > > holding > > > > down the motor housing as tightly as the other clamps. > > > > > > > > Report back with what was wrong and your results so I'll know if > > > > these suggestions worked. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:50 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > > > > > Thanks Lenny I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm not so tired, see > > > > if I can find any debris blocking the seal, or anything else that > > > > may be > > out of > > > > place > > > > in the motor part of the "lid". > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > When you do maintenance, make sure you wipe the top of the > > > > > plastic canister and also check for any debris on the rubber > > > > > seal on the > > motor > > > > > housing where it sits on top of the canister. If some debris > > > > > ends up breaking the seal between the rubber seal and the > > > > > plastic top of the canister, it can leak. > > > > > I've never had that happen on either of my Rena's but I don't > > have an > > > > > XP-4 but they are built the same except the XP-4 is taller and > > > > > has a bigger motor. The reason it might not be happening right > > > > > away is > > that > > > > > the water is flowing back up to the tank easily when the filter > > media > > > > > is clean but as it clogs up, there is some back pressure > > > > > building up inside the canister and that puts more pressure on > > > > > any possible > > areas > > > > > that might be prone to leak. > > > > > Use a flashlight and look around the lip of the motor housing to > > > > > see if you can see where the leak is coming from so you will > > > > > know > > where to > > > > > look on the top of the canister or on the rubber seal. Hopefully > > it's > > > > > not damaged and just some kind of debris. If the top of the > > > > > plastic canister lip is dinged, you could probably fill that in > > > > > with some epoxy and then sand it down to be even with the rest > > > > > of the lip. If it's the rubber seal that's damaged, you can buy > > > > > a new one from > > Rena. > > > > > I've never looked at mine closely, other than to check for > > > > > debris so it may even be an O-ring shoved up into the motor > > > > > housing that sits down onto the canister lip. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:27 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > > > > > > > So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 canister > > filter? > > > > > I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this week > > (had a > > > > > HOB die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last week, > > > > > but the HOB is not there this week so I now know it's the Rena > > > > > XP 4 > > that's > > > > > slowly dripping around the "lid" of the canister). > > > > > These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm > > > > > wondering how/why it may be doing this. > > > > > It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about > > half way > > > > > through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was > > > > > barely dirty, so it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. > > > > > I clean it every week like all my other filters. > > > > > I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 that > > I use > > > > > on my > > > > > 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have on > > > > > my > > > > > 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the > > > > > manufacturing process? If so I'd think I would have noticed the > > leak a > > > > > long time ago, these are around a year old now. > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > > > the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > > digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option > > > > where > > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > > > > individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47235	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Hybrids... So I was watching The Tonight Show just now...

Jay Leno did a joke about hybrids and mentioned the Cama (Camel and Llama), another hybrid (I forget which one) and then the Buselo... a mix between Gary Busey and a Buffalo. LOL Now that was one butt-ugly hybrid. Anyhow... based on our recent long discussion about hybrids and cross-Genera hybridization, I decided to read about the Cama, Camel and Llama and while the Camel and Llama are from the same Family (Camelidae), they are from different Genera but scientists were able to create a Cama by artificial insemination of a female Llama with a male Camel but a female Camel was not able to be artificially inseminated by a male Llama. A Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cama_(animal) ended with the below closing paragraph and while I haven't checked it out for accuracy, it makes sense and shows that DNA will likely massively change the way animals are classified in the future and how many current species will be re-classified based on their DNA. "Despite approximately 2-3 million years of evolutionary separation, both Old World and New World camelids have by chance maintained the same number of chromosomes, seventy-four, making this extraordinary cross-breeding between not only distinct species, but distinct genera, much easier and more likely to produce fertile offspring." (END SNIP) While I learned in college that cross-Genera breeding was unlikely, it seems that it really depends on the DNA chromosonal match rather than the Genus of the species since the Genus is a made up scientific name based on man's interpretation of the species by physical examination whereas DNA is based on pure science with less chance of a man's interpretation to muck things up. I suspect that all of these cross-Genera hybrids are actually more closely related than man originally thought and the DNA sequencing will likely prove things beyond a reasonable doubt. One of the references mentioned in the Cama Wiki article was this one, "Top 10 Hybrid Animals", http://www.hemmy.net/2006/06/19/top-10-hybrid-animals/ (which \\Steve// can use in his weird news stories) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47236	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Leaking Rena XP 4

OK. Well if no leaks have happened since you did filter maintenance after the leak started, I would suspect some kind of detritus getting caught in the seal, rather than a restriction of either the intake or return lines or even the filter media getting clogged up. I've read online accounts of folks running their Rena canister filters for a LONG time, until the water was barely flowing through them any longer and theirs did not leak. Of course, I politely explained to them that waiting that long to clean their filters was defeating the entire purpose of running a filter in the first place... kind of like... why use a toilet if you're not gonna flush it and instead just keep using the toilet till it's overflowing with waste??? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Leaking Rena XP 4 I didn't get a chance to open it up this week. Jury duty caused me to get behind at work so I had to work long hours the rest of the week *sigh* glad it's over now though. I did a PWC tonight on my tanks, planning on cleaning the filters tomorrow afternoon/morning. There have been no leaks since last week when I cleaned the filter and put it all back together, and only 2 or 3 days ago I took the cover off the intake filter (I should call it the snail protector, LOL). I don't mind if the filter sucks up some platy and guppy fry (at this point the darn things are expendable, very expendable, LOL). Want me to look for anything particular while cleaning the filters tomorrow? I've had 2 dead fish so far this week.... and one bleeding heart seems to be suffering from dropsy for some strange reason (this was before my PWC). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Hmmmm.. interesting that it could be related to the intake rather then > the return. I should have thought about the intake being a reason > since Rena does have the throttle valve that can be put in prior to > the returning water to slow down the water flow back into the tank, > which would also slow down the intake water. I guess the pump must be > on the back end of the water flow from the reservoir so that it > assists with pumping water back up into the tank rather than pulling > water down into the filter reservoir. I'll have to examine the motor > housing and the way the lines come into it when I do filter > maintenance on my Rena Canisters this weekend. But it still seems like > it would be the returning water pressure that would have to build up > for a leak to form, not the suction. I'll have to think about this more. > > Since you first reported the leak.. I guess a week or so ago, and I > suggested doing filter maintenance and removing the motor housing > (top) and > checking for debris on the O-ring/Rubber seal area or on the top lip > of the reservoir housing, have you done that... or is the only thing > that you've done is remove the additional intake screening? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:50 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Leaking Rena XP 4 > > I actually had a screen cover over the intake filter and I'm pretty > sure that's what helped cause the leaking, I removed it so the flow of > water could be un-obstructed into the filter and have experienced no > leaking since then (and since cleaning the filter on last friday), > when I open it up tonight to clean it I'm going to take a closer peek > to see if there are any other obstructions. > > I've noticed since removing the cover over the intake that ALL the > fish are acting oddly, they are hovering near the surface (even my > Severum), I'm not sure why they would be doing this, I haven't changed > anything else in my routine. The filters were cleaned a week ago (due > for another cleaning of course), did a PWC last week as well. I have a > "bubble wand" > in the tank so there should be more than plenty of oxygen (not to > mention 2 powerheads and 2 canister filters). I did have to remove a > HOB from the tank a little over a week ago though (the motor seems to > have died, I need to inspect it closer too). I suppose it's possible > that the HOB had most of the nitrifying bacteria and I lost too much > when I removed the HOB. The fish didn't start this odd behavior until > just a few days ago. > I will have to test the water tonight to see what my pH, ammonia, > nitrite, and nitrates are at right at this exact moment, I didn't do > that yet this week when the odd behavior started (between work and > jury duty it hasn't been a fun week, lol). > > Amber > > bkmat62 wrote: > > > > Another thing that you may wish to clean is the the filter tubing. I > > have had a similar experience with another manufacturer's canister > > filter and found that cleaning the tubing resolved the problem. I > > believe that the additional resistance to flow in the tube returning > > the filtered water to the aquarium resulted in increased internal > > filter pressure and a leak. Try cleaning the tubing, it can't hurt > > and may solve your problem. > > > > Bob > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > The drips are occurring at the clips and it's dripping onto the > > > floor from the bottom of each clip (at least 2 clips were dripping > > > but it was a large puddle so I assume all 4 were dripping at some > > > point), but > > all 4 > > > clips are pushed in correctly, the drip is happening around the > > > edge, and appeared to only be on one side when I was checking the > > > canister filter over before I opened it and started cleaning it. > > > *salutes* Yes Sir! will report back in, in the next 24-48 hours > > > max > > > ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > One other thing. Make sure all four clamps are clipped in > > properly. I'm > > > > not sure if you've ever noticed but they can come un-hinged from > > > > the canister bottom where they snap into little C-holders and > > > > then > > they won't > > > > clamp down properly and that one corner will leak since it's not > > holding > > > > down the motor housing as tightly as the other clamps. > > > > > > > > Report back with what was wrong and your results so I'll know if > > > > these suggestions worked. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > > > > the > > right > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:50 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > > > > > Thanks Lenny I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm not so tired, > > > > see if I can find any debris blocking the seal, or anything else > > > > that may be > > out of > > > > place > > > > in the motor part of the "lid". > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > When you do maintenance, make sure you wipe the top of the > > > > > plastic canister and also check for any debris on the rubber > > > > > seal on the > > motor > > > > > housing where it sits on top of the canister. If some debris > > > > > ends up breaking the seal between the rubber seal and the > > > > > plastic top of the canister, it can leak. > > > > > I've never had that happen on either of my Rena's but I don't > > have an > > > > > XP-4 but they are built the same except the XP-4 is taller and > > > > > has a bigger motor. The reason it might not be happening right > > > > > away is > > that > > > > > the water is flowing back up to the tank easily when the > > > > > filter > > media > > > > > is clean but as it clogs up, there is some back pressure > > > > > building up inside the canister and that puts more pressure on > > > > > any possible > > areas > > > > > that might be prone to leak. > > > > > Use a flashlight and look around the lip of the motor housing > > > > > to see if you can see where the leak is coming from so you > > > > > will know > > where to > > > > > look on the top of the canister or on the rubber seal. > > > > > Hopefully > > it's > > > > > not damaged and just some kind of debris. If the top of the > > > > > plastic canister lip is dinged, you could probably fill that > > > > > in with some epoxy and then sand it down to be even with the > > > > > rest of the lip. If it's the rubber seal that's damaged, you > > > > > can buy a new one from > > Rena. > > > > > I've never looked at mine closely, other than to check for > > > > > debris so it may even be an O-ring shoved up into the motor > > > > > housing that sits down onto the canister lip. > > > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels > > > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > > Berglund > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 10:27 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaking Rena XP 4 > > > > > > > > > > So does anyone else out there have a leaky Rena XP 1-4 > > > > > canister > > filter? > > > > > I noticed a puddle around my tank last week and again this > > > > > week > > (had a > > > > > HOB die and thought that was the cause of the puddle last > > > > > week, but the HOB is not there this week so I now know it's > > > > > the Rena XP 4 > > that's > > > > > slowly dripping around the "lid" of the canister). > > > > > These have a built in seal and it shouldn't be dripping so I'm > > > > > wondering how/why it may be doing this. > > > > > It's not a steady leak just a drip, it seems to appear about > > half way > > > > > through the week and when I just cleaned the filter it was > > > > > barely dirty, so it's not clogged inside from detritus and such. > > > > > I clean it every week like all my other filters. > > > > > I have 2 of these filters and they're both xp 4's, my xp 4 > > > > > that > > I use > > > > > on my > > > > > 55 gallon tank upstairs has never leaked, only the one I have > > > > > on my > > > > > 125 gallon tank seems to have issues, maybe it's a flaw in the > > > > > manufacturing process? If so I'd think I would have noticed > > > > > the > > leak a > > > > > long time ago, these are around a year old now. > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47237	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the eggs in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken eggs. > Scroll > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/12/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? I've read through that article a few times over the years but never really noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is high in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent source of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, hard boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina powder, and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then add corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not get to hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored gelatin powder. *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from whole squid. * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent (Ich), you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish food at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to about ½ teaspoon (or less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but since this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. (END SNIP) Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more precise measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many other DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this guys website in general since his information is very accurate in most of his other articles. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the eggs in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken eggs. > Scroll > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47239	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Lenny - At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these percentages to suit your fish food requirements: INGREDIENT BASIC GOLDFISH CARNIVORE Whole Salmon 25% 20% 30% Peas 25% 25% 15% Egg 20% 15% 25% Brine shrimp 15% 15% 15% Spirulina Powder 10% 15% 5% Wheat Germ 0% 5% 0% Squid 0% 0% 5% Fish Oil 2% 2% 2% Corn Starch or Gelatin 3% 3% 3% Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? > I've > read through that article a few times over the years but never > really noted > it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more closely > and saw > this half-hearted recipe. > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is > high in > DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent source of > carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, hard > boiled > egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina powder, and > fish oil > (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then add corn starch > to the > paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small strips of foil (or > even wax > paper if your dehydrator does not get to hot). Make sure you leave > room for > air circulation. > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored gelatin > powder. > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from whole > squid. > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent > (Ich), you > can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish food at > a rate > of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to about � > teaspoon (or > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but > since this > already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of this and > decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > (END SNIP) > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > should > not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more precise > measurements > and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many other DIY fish > foods > are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this guys website in > general > since his information is very accurate in most of his other articles. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the > eggs in > it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken eggs. > > Scroll > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47240	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Oh, sorry, Lenny, the chart did not load onto the email, but anyway, I used that chart. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Lenny - > > At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is > this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > INGREDIENT > BASIC > GOLDFISH > CARNIVORE > Whole Salmon > 25% > 20% > 30% > Peas > 25% > 25% > 15% > Egg > 20% > 15% > 25% > Brine shrimp > 15% > 15% > 15% > Spirulina Powder > 10% > 15% > 5% > Wheat Germ > 0% > 5% > 0% > Squid > 0% > 0% > 5% > Fish Oil > 2% > 2% > 2% > Corn Starch or Gelatin > 3% > 3% > 3% > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? >> I've >> read through that article a few times over the years but never >> really noted >> it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more closely >> and saw >> this half-hearted recipe. >> >> HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: >> >> You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is >> high in >> DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent >> source of >> carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, hard >> boiled >> egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina powder, and >> fish oil >> (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then add corn starch >> to the >> paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small strips of foil (or >> even wax >> paper if your dehydrator does not get to hot). Make sure you leave >> room for >> air circulation. >> >> *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored >> gelatin >> powder. >> >> *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. >> >> *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the >> spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for >> carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from >> whole >> squid. >> >> * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent >> (Ich), you >> can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish food at >> a rate >> of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to about ½ >> teaspoon (or >> less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) >> >> For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but >> since this >> already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of this >> and >> decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. >> (END SNIP) >> >> Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg >> should >> not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more precise >> measurements >> and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many other DIY fish >> foods >> are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this guys website in >> general >> since his information is very accurate in most of his other articles. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food >> >> Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the >> eggs in >> it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >>> Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken eggs. >>> Scroll >>> down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". >>> >>> http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47241	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is supposed to be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part of the recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None of the other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding that much egg to the recipe, if any. Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What kind of fish? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Lenny - At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these percentages to suit your fish food requirements: INGREDIENT BASIC GOLDFISH CARNIVORE Whole Salmon 25% 20% 30% Peas 25% 25% 15% Egg 20% 15% 25% Brine shrimp 15% 15% 15% Spirulina Powder 10% 15% 5% Wheat Germ 0% 5% 0% Squid 0% 0% 5% Fish Oil 2% 2% 2% Corn Starch or Gelatin 3% 3% 3% Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? > I've > read through that article a few times over the years but never really > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is high > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent source > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, hard > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina powder, > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then add > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not get to > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored gelatin > powder. > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from whole > squid. > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent (Ich), > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish food > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to about ½ > teaspoon (or > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but since > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > (END SNIP) > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more precise > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many other > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this guys > website in general since his information is very accurate in most of > his other articles. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the eggs > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken eggs. > > Scroll > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47242	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Well, my cory catfish, ottos, blue rams, hillstream loaches, sparkling gouramis and celestial pearl danios ate it well. But the rummy nose tetras wouldn't touch it, and I consider them an indicator species for stuff like good food:) plus my guppies and endlers weren't wild for it, which they should have been since they will eat anything. I mean I guess it was OK, but it wasn't like when I feed frozen bloodworms or frozen brine, where they all simply lose their minds. And, they all spat out the little pieces of eggwhite - even the catfish passed over those. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by > Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is supposed > to be > Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. > > I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part of the > recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big > batch of > food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None of the other > recipes > that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding that much egg to the > recipe, if any. > > Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What > kind of > fish? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Lenny - > > At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is > this > chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > INGREDIENT > BASIC > GOLDFISH > CARNIVORE > Whole Salmon > 25% > 20% > 30% > Peas > 25% > 25% > 15% > Egg > 20% > 15% > 25% > Brine shrimp > 15% > 15% > 15% > Spirulina Powder > 10% > 15% > 5% > Wheat Germ > 0% > 5% > 0% > Squid > 0% > 0% > 5% > Fish Oil > 2% > 2% > 2% > Corn Starch or Gelatin > 3% > 3% > 3% > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? > > I've > > read through that article a few times over the years but never > really > > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is > high > > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent > source > > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, > hard > > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina > powder, > > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then add > > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small > > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not get to > > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored > gelatin > > powder. > > > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the > > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for > > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from > whole > > squid. > > > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent > (Ich), > > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish food > > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to > about � > > teaspoon (or > > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but > since > > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > > (END SNIP) > > > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more > precise > > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many > other > > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this guys > > website in general since his information is very accurate in most of > > his other articles. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the > eggs > > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken > eggs. > > > Scroll > > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

I was able to figure out what the figures that you posted meant. It says, under Ingredients, BASIC, GOLDFISH, CARNIVORE as the three categories and under each ingredient, it lists three percentages applicable to each of the categories. At least that's how I interpreted it without looking at the site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Oh, sorry, Lenny, the chart did not load onto the email, but anyway, I used that chart. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Lenny - > > At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is > this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > INGREDIENT > BASIC > GOLDFISH > CARNIVORE > Whole Salmon > 25% > 20% > 30% > Peas > 25% > 25% > 15% > Egg > 20% > 15% > 25% > Brine shrimp > 15% > 15% > 15% > Spirulina Powder > 10% > 15% > 5% > Wheat Germ > 0% > 5% > 0% > Squid > 0% > 0% > 5% > Fish Oil > 2% > 2% > 2% > Corn Starch or Gelatin > 3% > 3% > 3% > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? >> I've >> read through that article a few times over the years but never really >> noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more >> closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. >> >> HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: >> >> You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is >> high in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent >> source of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen >> peas, hard boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or >> spirulina powder, and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this >> mixture then add corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this >> paste on small strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator >> does not get to hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. >> >> *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored >> gelatin powder. >> >> *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. >> >> *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the >> spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for >> carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from >> whole squid. >> >> * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent >> (Ich), you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried >> fish food at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes >> to about ½ teaspoon (or >> less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) >> >> For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but >> since this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount >> of this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. >> (END SNIP) >> >> Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg >> should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more >> precise measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the >> many other DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like >> this guys website in general since his information is very accurate >> in most of his other articles. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food >> >> Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the >> eggs in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >>> Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken eggs. >>> Scroll >>> down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". >>> >>> http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together until it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. I'm guessing that you didn't blend everything together in a blender? Did you do the gel food or did you use a dehydrator? I guess my last batch was a combination of gel and dehydrator since something I added cause the gelatin to NOT work so I had to bake the mess to get most of the liquid out and it turned out OK and more like a gel food after I baked it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Well, my cory catfish, ottos, blue rams, hillstream loaches, sparkling gouramis and celestial pearl danios ate it well. But the rummy nose tetras wouldn't touch it, and I consider them an indicator species for stuff like good food:) plus my guppies and endlers weren't wild for it, which they should have been since they will eat anything. I mean I guess it was OK, but it wasn't like when I feed frozen bloodworms or frozen brine, where they all simply lose their minds. And, they all spat out the little pieces of eggwhite - even the catfish passed over those. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by > Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is supposed to > be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. > > I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part of the > recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big > batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None of the > other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding that > much egg to the recipe, if any. > > Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What kind > of fish? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Lenny - > > At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is > this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > INGREDIENT > BASIC > GOLDFISH > CARNIVORE > Whole Salmon > 25% > 20% > 30% > Peas > 25% > 25% > 15% > Egg > 20% > 15% > 25% > Brine shrimp > 15% > 15% > 15% > Spirulina Powder > 10% > 15% > 5% > Wheat Germ > 0% > 5% > 0% > Squid > 0% > 0% > 5% > Fish Oil > 2% > 2% > 2% > Corn Starch or Gelatin > 3% > 3% > 3% > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? > > I've > > read through that article a few times over the years but never > really > > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is > high > > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent > source > > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, > hard > > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina > powder, > > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then add > > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small > > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not get to > > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored > gelatin > > powder. > > > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the > > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for > > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from > whole > > squid. > > > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent > (Ich), > > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish food > > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to > about ½ > > teaspoon (or > > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but > since > > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > > (END SNIP) > > > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more > precise > > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many > other > > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this guys > > website in general since his information is very accurate in most of > > his other articles. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the > eggs > > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken > eggs. > > > Scroll > > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47245	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

One thing you must do when you are making your own foods is to think of the food in fish terms (dog terms, cat terms, whatever) and not in human terms. Since we were talking here about eggs, primarily, realize that we as humans are being dissuaded from eating eggs, especially the yolk, for the problems that people have controlling their cholesterol (however, my doctor, who knows my diet, almost had a heart attack when he saw my cholesterol was below the range that a healthy person should have--I am usually a source of constant amazement for him). Egg yolks tend to increase the cholesterol level, the whites are relatively innocuous in comparison, hence the people ordering egg white sandwiches. However, for fish, especially fry, egg yolks are a very good food because of all the nutrition they supply. You need to look at other foods in the same manner. Goldfish are more vegetarian than omnivores, though, like most fish, they will not turn down a meal. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is supposed to be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part of the recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None of the other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding that much egg to the recipe, if any. Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What kind of fish? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Lenny - At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these percentages to suit your fish food requirements: INGREDIENT BASIC GOLDFISH CARNIVORE Whole Salmon 25% 20% 30% Peas 25% 25% 15% Egg 20% 15% 25% Brine shrimp 15% 15% 15% Spirulina Powder 10% 15% 5% Wheat Germ 0% 5% 0% Squid 0% 0% 5% Fish Oil 2% 2% 2% Corn Starch or Gelatin 3% 3% 3% Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? > I've > read through that article a few times over the years but never really > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is high > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent source > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, hard > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina powder, > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then add > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not get to > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored gelatin > powder. > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from whole > squid. > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent (Ich), > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish food > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to about ½ > teaspoon (or > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but since > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > (END SNIP) > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more precise > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many other > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this guys > website in general since his information is very accurate in most of > his other articles. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the eggs > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken eggs. > > Scroll > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47246	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of food, doesn't it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do they actually eat? There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > until it's > one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47247	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

You know, I did try to blend it, but I used a food processor. I'm not sure everything blended. Do you think a FP is not as good as a blender? I was scared of having to clean the blender. I made the gel food, and the gel part came out great. John is trying it out on his marine snails now... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > until it's > one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. I'm > guessing > that you didn't blend everything together in a blender? Did you do > the gel > food or did you use a dehydrator? I guess my last batch was a > combination > of gel and dehydrator since something I added cause the gelatin to > NOT work > so I had to bake the mess to get most of the liquid out and it > turned out OK > and more like a gel food after I baked it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Well, my cory catfish, ottos, blue rams, hillstream loaches, sparkling > gouramis and celestial pearl danios ate it well. But the rummy nose > tetras > wouldn't touch it, and I consider them an indicator species for > stuff like > good food:) plus my guppies and endlers weren't wild for it, which > they > should have been since they will eat anything. I mean I guess it > was OK, > but it wasn't like when I feed frozen bloodworms or frozen brine, > where they > all simply lose their minds. And, they all spat out the little > pieces of > eggwhite - even the catfish passed over those. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by > > Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is > supposed to > > be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. > > > > I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part > of the > > recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big > > batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None > of the > > other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding that > > much egg to the recipe, if any. > > > > Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What > kind > > of fish? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > Lenny - > > > > At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ > > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is > > this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > > > INGREDIENT > > BASIC > > GOLDFISH > > CARNIVORE > > Whole Salmon > > 25% > > 20% > > 30% > > Peas > > 25% > > 25% > > 15% > > Egg > > 20% > > 15% > > 25% > > Brine shrimp > > 15% > > 15% > > 15% > > Spirulina Powder > > 10% > > 15% > > 5% > > Wheat Germ > > 0% > > 5% > > 0% > > Squid > > 0% > > 0% > > 5% > > Fish Oil > > 2% > > 2% > > 2% > > Corn Starch or Gelatin > > 3% > > 3% > > 3% > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel > food? > > > I've > > > read through that article a few times over the years but never > > really > > > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > > > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > > > > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > > > > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is > > high > > > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent > > source > > > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, > > hard > > > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina > > powder, > > > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture > then add > > > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small > > > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not > get to > > > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > > > > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored > > gelatin > > > powder. > > > > > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > > > > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease > the > > > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too > for > > > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from > > whole > > > squid. > > > > > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent > > (Ich), > > > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish > food > > > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to > > about � > > > teaspoon (or > > > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > > > > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but > > since > > > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > > > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > > > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more > > precise > > > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many > > other > > > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this > guys > > > website in general since his information is very accurate in > most of > > > his other articles. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the > > eggs > > > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken > > eggs. > > > > Scroll > > > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block > Ingredients". > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47248	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

That's the purpose of making a gel food so the gelatin holds the muck together while the smaller fish bite pieces off. I peel/break off little pieces (pinky nail size) off of a 2" square that I defrost as needed. My goldfish just inhale the entire pinky nail sized piece and then chew it up for a moment before going for the next piece. I feed each of them two mouthfuls at each feeding, a few times a day and this amount limits the amount of poop that comes out. Overfeeding goldfish just causes the food to go right through their system and out the other end so fast that they don't really absorb any nutrition from it. Here are some goldfish poop pics and when you see a goldfish with a 2" or 6" long strand of poop hanging from it's butt, that means the owner is feeding WAY TOO MUCH at each feeding and most of the food is just being wasted, literally... as waste. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 I use to be a regular contributor to the site and I think they still have a few of my articles hosted on the site, but they kicked me off a while back when I regularly explained that their "Goldfish Care Sheet" was more of a "Goldfish Kill Sheet" since they are a goldfish site that still recommends only 10G per goldfish. The moderators refuse to admit that their care sheet is grossly understating the amount of water volume needed per goldfish... but their members do have LOTS of health issues because of this recommendation so they have gotten pretty good at trying to help sick goldfish so you can learn a lot from their health forums... on what not to do in the first place. I choose to try and prevent fish from getting sick in the first place... and that starts with a proper sized tank and proper tank maintenance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of food, doesn't it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do they actually eat? There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together until > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47249	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

OK, so the gelatin is the key, thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > That's the purpose of making a gel food so the gelatin holds the muck > together while the smaller fish bite pieces off. I peel/break off > little > pieces (pinky nail size) off of a 2" square that I defrost as > needed. My > goldfish just inhale the entire pinky nail sized piece and then > chew it up > for a moment before going for the next piece. I feed each of them two > mouthfuls at each feeding, a few times a day and this amount limits > the > amount of poop that comes out. Overfeeding goldfish just causes the > food to > go right through their system and out the other end so fast that > they don't > really absorb any nutrition from it. Here are some goldfish poop > pics and > when you see a goldfish with a 2" or 6" long strand of poop hanging > from > it's butt, that means the owner is feeding WAY TOO MUCH at each > feeding and > most of the food is just being wasted, literally... as waste. > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 > > I use to be a regular contributor to the site and I think they > still have a > few of my articles hosted on the site, but they kicked me off a > while back > when I regularly explained that their "Goldfish Care Sheet" was > more of a > "Goldfish Kill Sheet" since they are a goldfish site that still > recommends > only 10G per goldfish. The moderators refuse to admit that their > care sheet > is grossly understating the amount of water volume needed per > goldfish... > but their members do have LOTS of health issues because of this > recommendation so they have gotten pretty good at trying to help sick > goldfish so you can learn a lot from their health forums... on what > not to > do in the first place. I choose to try and prevent fish from > getting sick > in the first place... and that starts with a proper sized tank and > proper > tank maintenance. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of food, > doesn't > it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do they > actually eat? > There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > until > > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47250	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

I use a blender when I make mine. I think cleaning a food processor is more work than cleaning a blender since the blender fits in the dishwasher easier... of course, that could be from my expertise at cleaning blenders after making so many batches of frozen margueritas, daiquiris and other adult beverages over the years down here so it was just a matter of rinsing it out between batches. Besides... you really don't need a food processor when you're so busy making blenders full of adult beverages. ;-) If you have a FP blade that would do more blending rather than just slicing and chopping, that might work better for you next time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food You know, I did try to blend it, but I used a food processor. I'm not sure everything blended. Do you think a FP is not as good as a blender? I was scared of having to clean the blender. I made the gel food, and the gel part came out great. John is trying it out on his marine snails now... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together until > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. > I'm guessing that you didn't blend everything together in a blender? > Did you do the gel food or did you use a dehydrator? I guess my last > batch was a combination of gel and dehydrator since something I added > cause the gelatin to NOT work so I had to bake the mess to get most of > the liquid out and it turned out OK and more like a gel food after I > baked it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Well, my cory catfish, ottos, blue rams, hillstream loaches, sparkling > gouramis and celestial pearl danios ate it well. But the rummy nose > tetras wouldn't touch it, and I consider them an indicator species for > stuff like good food:) plus my guppies and endlers weren't wild for > it, which they should have been since they will eat anything. I mean I > guess it was OK, but it wasn't like when I feed frozen bloodworms or > frozen brine, where they all simply lose their minds. And, they all > spat out the little pieces of eggwhite - even the catfish passed over > those. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by > > Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is > supposed to > > be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. > > > > I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part > of the > > recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big > > batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None > of the > > other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding that > > much egg to the recipe, if any. > > > > Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What > kind > > of fish? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > Lenny - > > > > At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ > > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is > > this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > > > INGREDIENT > > BASIC > > GOLDFISH > > CARNIVORE > > Whole Salmon > > 25% > > 20% > > 30% > > Peas > > 25% > > 25% > > 15% > > Egg > > 20% > > 15% > > 25% > > Brine shrimp > > 15% > > 15% > > 15% > > Spirulina Powder > > 10% > > 15% > > 5% > > Wheat Germ > > 0% > > 5% > > 0% > > Squid > > 0% > > 0% > > 5% > > Fish Oil > > 2% > > 2% > > 2% > > Corn Starch or Gelatin > > 3% > > 3% > > 3% > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel > food? > > > I've > > > read through that article a few times over the years but never > > really > > > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > > > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > > > > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > > > > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is > > high > > > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent > > source > > > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, > > hard > > > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina > > powder, > > > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture > then add > > > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small > > > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not > get to > > > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > > > > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored > > gelatin > > > powder. > > > > > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > > > > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease > the > > > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too > for > > > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from > > whole > > > squid. > > > > > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent > > (Ich), > > > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish > food > > > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to > > about ½ > > > teaspoon (or > > > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > > > > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but > > since > > > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > > > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > > > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more > > precise > > > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many > > other > > > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this > guys > > > website in general since his information is very accurate in > most of > > > his other articles. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the > > eggs > > > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken > > eggs. > > > > Scroll > > > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block > Ingredients". > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47251	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hybrids... So I was watching The Tonight Show just now...

Speaking of hybrids, here is one I sent around last week, but not here, since it really is not fish related. "Global warming be damned! Hell hath frozen over!!! Both Porsche and Ferrari have built hybrid concept cars that are on the show circuit. http://www.smartplanet.com/business/blog/intelligent-energy/hyperfastmiling- in-the-latest-supercars/135/ http://tinyurl.com/y8j3tfz" Both cars can reach insanely high speeds insanely fast. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hybrids... So I was watching The Tonight Show just now... Jay Leno did a joke about hybrids and mentioned the Cama (Camel and Llama), another hybrid (I forget which one) and then the Buselo... a mix between Gary Busey and a Buffalo. LOL Now that was one butt-ugly hybrid. Anyhow... based on our recent long discussion about hybrids and cross-Genera hybridization, I decided to read about the Cama, Camel and Llama and while the Camel and Llama are from the same Family (Camelidae), they are from different Genera but scientists were able to create a Cama by artificial insemination of a female Llama with a male Camel but a female Camel was not able to be artificially inseminated by a male Llama. A Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cama_(animal) ended with the below closing paragraph and while I haven't checked it out for accuracy, it makes sense and shows that DNA will likely massively change the way animals are classified in the future and how many current species will be re-classified based on their DNA. "Despite approximately 2-3 million years of evolutionary separation, both Old World and New World camelids have by chance maintained the same number of chromosomes, seventy-four, making this extraordinary cross-breeding between not only distinct species, but distinct genera, much easier and more likely to produce fertile offspring." (END SNIP) While I learned in college that cross-Genera breeding was unlikely, it seems that it really depends on the DNA chromosonal match rather than the Genus of the species since the Genus is a made up scientific name based on man's interpretation of the species by physical examination whereas DNA is based on pure science with less chance of a man's interpretation to muck things up. I suspect that all of these cross-Genera hybrids are actually more closely related than man originally thought and the DNA sequencing will likely prove things beyond a reasonable doubt. One of the references mentioned in the Cama Wiki article was this one, "Top 10 Hybrid Animals", http://www.hemmy.net/2006/06/19/top-10-hybrid-animals/ (which \\Steve// can use in his weird news stories) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

I should elaborate on the 2" square. It's only about 1/4" thick when I pour the muck into a pan to harden. Then I cut it into 2" x 2" squares and freeze the pan. Then break the pan at the 2" marks and store the 2" squares in a double thick zip loc freezer bag. Yes, I've had some friends ask if what that "green stuff" was in the baggie in my freezer. When I explain, it's never what they first thought it might be... or would that be hoped it might be. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food OK, so the gelatin is the key, thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > That's the purpose of making a gel food so the gelatin holds the muck > together while the smaller fish bite pieces off. I peel/break off > little pieces (pinky nail size) off of a 2" square that I defrost as > needed. My goldfish just inhale the entire pinky nail sized piece and > then chew it up for a moment before going for the next piece. I feed > each of them two mouthfuls at each feeding, a few times a day and this > amount limits the amount of poop that comes out. Overfeeding goldfish > just causes the food to go right through their system and out the > other end so fast that they don't really absorb any nutrition from it. > Here are some goldfish poop pics and when you see a goldfish with a 2" > or 6" long strand of poop hanging from it's butt, that means the owner > is feeding WAY TOO MUCH at each feeding and most of the food is just > being wasted, literally... as waste. > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 > > I use to be a regular contributor to the site and I think they still > have a few of my articles hosted on the site, but they kicked me off a > while back when I regularly explained that their "Goldfish Care Sheet" > was more of a "Goldfish Kill Sheet" since they are a goldfish site > that still recommends only 10G per goldfish. The moderators refuse to > admit that their care sheet is grossly understating the amount of > water volume needed per goldfish... > but their members do have LOTS of health issues because of this > recommendation so they have gotten pretty good at trying to help sick > goldfish so you can learn a lot from their health forums... on what > not to do in the first place. I choose to try and prevent fish from > getting sick in the first place... and that starts with a proper sized > tank and proper tank maintenance. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of food, > doesn't it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do they > actually eat? > There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > until > > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47253	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

\\Steve// <file:///\\steve\> said Goldfish are more vegetarian than omnivores, though, like most fish, they will not turn down a meal. So are mbuna. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Floating Food One thing you must do when you are making your own foods is to think of the food in fish terms (dog terms, cat terms, whatever) and not in human terms. Since we were talking here about eggs, primarily, realize that we as humans are being dissuaded from eating eggs, especially the yolk, for the problems that people have controlling their cholesterol (however, my doctor, who knows my diet, almost had a heart attack when he saw my cholesterol was below the range that a healthy person should have--I am usually a source of constant amazement for him). Egg yolks tend to increase the cholesterol level, the whites are relatively innocuous in comparison, hence the people ordering egg white sandwiches. However, for fish, especially fry, egg yolks are a very good food because of all the nutrition they supply. You need to look at other foods in the same manner. Goldfish are more vegetarian than omnivores, though, like most fish, they will not turn down a meal. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:10 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is supposed to be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part of the recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None of the other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding that much egg to the recipe, if any. Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What kind of fish? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Lenny - At this link http://americanaqua <http://americanaquariumproducts.com/> riumproducts.com/ Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these percentages to suit your fish food requirements: INGREDIENT BASIC GOLDFISH CARNIVORE Whole Salmon 25% 20% 30% Peas 25% 25% 15% Egg 20% 15% 25% Brine shrimp 15% 15% 15% Spirulina Powder 10% 15% 5% Wheat Germ 0% 5% 0% Squid 0% 0% 5% Fish Oil 2% 2% 2% Corn Starch or Gelatin 3% 3% 3% Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? > I've > read through that article a few times over the years but never really > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is high > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent source > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, hard > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina powder, > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then add > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not get to > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored gelatin > powder. > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from whole > squid. > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent (Ich), > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish food > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to about ½ > teaspoon (or > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but since > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > (END SNIP) > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more precise > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many other > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this guys > website in general since his information is very accurate in most of > his other articles. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the eggs > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken eggs. > > Scroll > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > > > http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html> aquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47254	From: bill 1433	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

If ya "flash freeze" the stuff a bit and then score it with an old pizza cutter the job goes much faster and neater.   Bill --- On Sat, 3/13/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Floating Food To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 12:25 PM I should elaborate on the 2" square.  It's only about 1/4" thick when I pour the muck into a pan to harden.  Then I cut it into 2" x 2" squares and freeze the pan.  Then break the pan at the 2" marks and store the 2" squares in a double thick zip loc freezer bag.  Yes, I've had some friends ask if what that "green stuff" was in the baggie in my freezer.  When I explain, it's never what they first thought it might be... or would that be hoped it might be.  LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food OK, so the gelatin is the key, thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > That's the purpose of making a gel food so the gelatin holds the muck > together while the smaller fish bite pieces off. I peel/break off > little pieces (pinky nail size) off of a 2" square that I defrost as > needed. My goldfish just inhale the entire pinky nail sized piece and > then chew it up for a moment before going for the next piece. I feed > each of them two mouthfuls at each feeding, a few times a day and this > amount limits the amount of poop that comes out. Overfeeding goldfish > just causes the food to go right through their system and out the > other end so fast that they don't really absorb any nutrition from it. > Here are some goldfish poop pics and when you see a goldfish with a 2" > or 6" long strand of poop hanging from it's butt, that means the owner > is feeding WAY TOO MUCH at each feeding and most of the food is just > being wasted, literally... as waste. > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 > > I use to be a regular contributor to the site and I think they still > have a few of my articles hosted on the site, but they kicked me off a > while back when I regularly explained that their "Goldfish Care Sheet" > was more of a "Goldfish Kill Sheet" since they are a goldfish site > that still recommends only 10G per goldfish. The moderators refuse to > admit that their care sheet is grossly understating the amount of > water volume needed per goldfish... > but their members do have LOTS of health issues because of this > recommendation so they have gotten pretty good at trying to help sick > goldfish so you can learn a lot from their health forums... on what > not to do in the first place. I choose to try and prevent fish from > getting sick in the first place... and that starts with a proper sized > tank and proper tank maintenance. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of food, > doesn't it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do they > actually eat? > There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > until > > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47255	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

so do you think I need to use my blender as opposed to a food processor? I'm going to make another batch this afternoon... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > That's the purpose of making a gel food so the gelatin holds the muck > together while the smaller fish bite pieces off. I peel/break off > little > pieces (pinky nail size) off of a 2" square that I defrost as > needed. My > goldfish just inhale the entire pinky nail sized piece and then > chew it up > for a moment before going for the next piece. I feed each of them two > mouthfuls at each feeding, a few times a day and this amount limits > the > amount of poop that comes out. Overfeeding goldfish just causes the > food to > go right through their system and out the other end so fast that > they don't > really absorb any nutrition from it. Here are some goldfish poop > pics and > when you see a goldfish with a 2" or 6" long strand of poop hanging > from > it's butt, that means the owner is feeding WAY TOO MUCH at each > feeding and > most of the food is just being wasted, literally... as waste. > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 > > I use to be a regular contributor to the site and I think they > still have a > few of my articles hosted on the site, but they kicked me off a > while back > when I regularly explained that their "Goldfish Care Sheet" was > more of a > "Goldfish Kill Sheet" since they are a goldfish site that still > recommends > only 10G per goldfish. The moderators refuse to admit that their > care sheet > is grossly understating the amount of water volume needed per > goldfish... > but their members do have LOTS of health issues because of this > recommendation so they have gotten pretty good at trying to help sick > goldfish so you can learn a lot from their health forums... on what > not to > do in the first place. I choose to try and prevent fish from > getting sick > in the first place... and that starts with a proper sized tank and > proper > tank maintenance. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of food, > doesn't > it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do they > actually eat? > There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > until > > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47256	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

I clean both appliances by loading hot water and dish soap and running. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Floating Food I use a blender when I make mine. I think cleaning a food processor is more work than cleaning a blender since the blender fits in the dishwasher easier... of course, that could be from my expertise at cleaning blenders after making so many batches of frozen margueritas, daiquiris and other adult beverages over the years down here so it was just a matter of rinsing it out between batches. Besides... you really don't need a food processor when you're so busy making blenders full of adult beverages. ;-) If you have a FP blade that would do more blending rather than just slicing and chopping, that might work better for you next time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:35 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food You know, I did try to blend it, but I used a food processor. I'm not sure everything blended. Do you think a FP is not as good as a blender? I was scared of having to clean the blender. I made the gel food, and the gel part came out great. John is trying it out on his marine snails now... Lainey http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together until > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. > I'm guessing that you didn't blend everything together in a blender? > Did you do the gel food or did you use a dehydrator? I guess my last > batch was a combination of gel and dehydrator since something I added > cause the gelatin to NOT work so I had to bake the mess to get most of > the liquid out and it turned out OK and more like a gel food after I > baked it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Well, my cory catfish, ottos, blue rams, hillstream loaches, sparkling > gouramis and celestial pearl danios ate it well. But the rummy nose > tetras wouldn't touch it, and I consider them an indicator species for > stuff like good food:) plus my guppies and endlers weren't wild for > it, which they should have been since they will eat anything. I mean I > guess it was OK, but it wasn't like when I feed frozen bloodworms or > frozen brine, where they all simply lose their minds. And, they all > spat out the little pieces of eggwhite - even the catfish passed over > those. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by > > Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is > supposed to > > be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. > > > > I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part > of the > > recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big > > batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None > of the > > other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding that > > much egg to the recipe, if any. > > > > Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What > kind > > of fish? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > Lenny - > > > > At this link http://americanaqua <http://americanaquariumproducts.com/> riumproducts.com/ > > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is > > this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > > > INGREDIENT > > BASIC > > GOLDFISH > > CARNIVORE > > Whole Salmon > > 25% > > 20% > > 30% > > Peas > > 25% > > 25% > > 15% > > Egg > > 20% > > 15% > > 25% > > Brine shrimp > > 15% > > 15% > > 15% > > Spirulina Powder > > 10% > > 15% > > 5% > > Wheat Germ > > 0% > > 5% > > 0% > > Squid > > 0% > > 0% > > 5% > > Fish Oil > > 2% > > 2% > > 2% > > Corn Starch or Gelatin > > 3% > > 3% > > 3% > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel > food? > > > I've > > > read through that article a few times over the years but never > > really > > > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > > > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > > > > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > > > > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is > > high > > > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent > > source > > > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, > > hard > > > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina > > powder, > > > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture > then add > > > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small > > > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not > get to > > > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > > > > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored > > gelatin > > > powder. > > > > > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > > > > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease > the > > > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too > for > > > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from > > whole > > > squid. > > > > > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent > > (Ich), > > > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish > food > > > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to > > about ½ > > > teaspoon (or > > > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > > > > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but > > since > > > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > > > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > > > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more > > precise > > > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many > > other > > > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this > guys > > > website in general since his information is very accurate in > most of > > > his other articles. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the > > eggs > > > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> dsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken > > eggs. > > > > Scroll > > > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block > Ingredients". > > > > > > > > http://www.american <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html> aquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47257	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Oh, well, I'll see what happens with the FP again today - no dishwasher here! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 12:32 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > I clean both appliances by loading hot water and dish soap and > running. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > I use a blender when I make mine. I think cleaning a food processor > is more > work than cleaning a blender since the blender fits in the dishwasher > easier... of course, that could be from my expertise at cleaning > blenders > after making so many batches of frozen margueritas, daiquiris and > other > adult beverages over the years down here so it was just a matter of > rinsing > it out between batches. Besides... you really don't need a food > processor > when you're so busy making blenders full of adult beverages. ;-) > > If you have a FP blade that would do more blending rather than just > slicing > and chopping, that might work better for you next time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > You know, I did try to blend it, but I used a food processor. I'm > not sure > everything blended. Do you think a FP is not as good as a blender? > I was > scared of having to clean the blender. > > I made the gel food, and the gel part came out great. > > John is trying it out on his marine snails now... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > until > > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. > > I'm guessing that you didn't blend everything together in a blender? > > Did you do the gel food or did you use a dehydrator? I guess my last > > batch was a combination of gel and dehydrator since something I > added > > cause the gelatin to NOT work so I had to bake the mess to get > most of > > the liquid out and it turned out OK and more like a gel food after I > > baked it. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com > (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:13 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > Well, my cory catfish, ottos, blue rams, hillstream loaches, > sparkling > > gouramis and celestial pearl danios ate it well. But the rummy nose > > tetras wouldn't touch it, and I consider them an indicator > species for > > stuff like good food:) plus my guppies and endlers weren't wild for > > it, which they should have been since they will eat anything. I > mean I > > guess it was OK, but it wasn't like when I feed frozen bloodworms or > > frozen brine, where they all simply lose their minds. And, they all > > spat out the little pieces of eggwhite - even the catfish passed > over > > those. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by > > > Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is > > supposed to > > > be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not > sure. > > > > > > I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part > > of the > > > recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big > > > batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None > > of the > > > other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding > that > > > much egg to the recipe, if any. > > > > > > Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What > > kind > > > of fish? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > > > Lenny - > > > > > > At this link http://americanaqua <http:// > americanaquariumproducts.com/> > riumproducts.com/ > > > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, > there is > > > this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > > > > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > > > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > > > > > INGREDIENT > > > BASIC > > > GOLDFISH > > > CARNIVORE > > > Whole Salmon > > > 25% > > > 20% > > > 30% > > > Peas > > > 25% > > > 25% > > > 15% > > > Egg > > > 20% > > > 15% > > > 25% > > > Brine shrimp > > > 15% > > > 15% > > > 15% > > > Spirulina Powder > > > 10% > > > 15% > > > 5% > > > Wheat Germ > > > 0% > > > 5% > > > 0% > > > Squid > > > 0% > > > 0% > > > 5% > > > Fish Oil > > > 2% > > > 2% > > > 2% > > > Corn Starch or Gelatin > > > 3% > > > 3% > > > 3% > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel > > food? > > > > I've > > > > read through that article a few times over the years but never > > > really > > > > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it > more > > > > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > > > > > > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > > > > > > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding > that is > > > high > > > > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent > > > source > > > > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen > peas, > > > hard > > > > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina > > > powder, > > > > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture > > then add > > > > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on > small > > > > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not > > get to > > > > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > > > > > > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored > > > gelatin > > > > powder. > > > > > > > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > > > > > > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease > > the > > > > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too > > for > > > > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from > > > whole > > > > squid. > > > > > > > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent > > > (Ich), > > > > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish > > food > > > > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to > > > about � > > > > teaspoon (or > > > > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/ > freezing) > > > > > > > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but > > > since > > > > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the > amount of > > > > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard > boiled egg > > > > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more > > > precise > > > > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many > > > other > > > > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this > > guys > > > > website in general since his information is very accurate in > > most of > > > > his other articles. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > > > > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had > the > > > eggs > > > > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslan <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > dsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken > > > eggs. > > > > > Scroll > > > > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block > > Ingredients". > > > > > > > > > > http://www.american > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html> > aquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47258	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

If your FP isn't finely blending the stuff up completely, then I'd use the blender. That way, the eggs, if you're going to use one or more again, will be completely ground up with the other stuff and the fish can't pick/spit it out... kind of like the spaghetti sauce advertisements that claim that there are two servings of vegetables in every serving and the kid won't feed it to the dog like he did with the broccoli. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food so do you think I need to use my blender as opposed to a food processor? I'm going to make another batch this afternoon... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > That's the purpose of making a gel food so the gelatin holds the muck > together while the smaller fish bite pieces off. I peel/break off > little pieces (pinky nail size) off of a 2" square that I defrost as > needed. My goldfish just inhale the entire pinky nail sized piece and > then chew it up for a moment before going for the next piece. I feed > each of them two mouthfuls at each feeding, a few times a day and this > amount limits the amount of poop that comes out. Overfeeding goldfish > just causes the food to go right through their system and out the > other end so fast that they don't really absorb any nutrition from it. > Here are some goldfish poop pics and when you see a goldfish with a 2" > or 6" long strand of poop hanging from it's butt, that means the owner > is feeding WAY TOO MUCH at each feeding and most of the food is just > being wasted, literally... as waste. > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 > > I use to be a regular contributor to the site and I think they still > have a few of my articles hosted on the site, but they kicked me off a > while back when I regularly explained that their "Goldfish Care Sheet" > was more of a "Goldfish Kill Sheet" since they are a goldfish site > that still recommends only 10G per goldfish. The moderators refuse to > admit that their care sheet is grossly understating the amount of > water volume needed per goldfish... > but their members do have LOTS of health issues because of this > recommendation so they have gotten pretty good at trying to help sick > goldfish so you can learn a lot from their health forums... on what > not to do in the first place. I choose to try and prevent fish from > getting sick in the first place... and that starts with a proper sized > tank and proper tank maintenance. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:39 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of food, > doesn't it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do they > actually eat? > There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > until > > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47259	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

I think I'll skip the egg this time and add more salmon/shrimp. I don't want anything in there the kids would be feeding to the dogs, however well blended:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > If your FP isn't finely blending the stuff up completely, then I'd > use the > blender. That way, the eggs, if you're going to use one or more > again, will > be completely ground up with the other stuff and the fish can't > pick/spit it > out... kind of like the spaghetti sauce advertisements that claim > that there > are two servings of vegetables in every serving and the kid won't > feed it to > the dog like he did with the broccoli. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > so do you think I need to use my blender as opposed to a food > processor? I'm > going to make another batch this afternoon... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That's the purpose of making a gel food so the gelatin holds the > muck > > together while the smaller fish bite pieces off. I peel/break off > > little pieces (pinky nail size) off of a 2" square that I defrost as > > needed. My goldfish just inhale the entire pinky nail sized piece > and > > then chew it up for a moment before going for the next piece. I feed > > each of them two mouthfuls at each feeding, a few times a day and > this > > amount limits the amount of poop that comes out. Overfeeding > goldfish > > just causes the food to go right through their system and out the > > other end so fast that they don't really absorb any nutrition > from it. > > Here are some goldfish poop pics and when you see a goldfish with > a 2" > > or 6" long strand of poop hanging from it's butt, that means the > owner > > is feeding WAY TOO MUCH at each feeding and most of the food is just > > being wasted, literally... as waste. > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 > > > > I use to be a regular contributor to the site and I think they still > > have a few of my articles hosted on the site, but they kicked me > off a > > while back when I regularly explained that their "Goldfish Care > Sheet" > > was more of a "Goldfish Kill Sheet" since they are a goldfish site > > that still recommends only 10G per goldfish. The moderators > refuse to > > admit that their care sheet is grossly understating the amount of > > water volume needed per goldfish... > > but their members do have LOTS of health issues because of this > > recommendation so they have gotten pretty good at trying to help > sick > > goldfish so you can learn a lot from their health forums... on what > > not to do in the first place. I choose to try and prevent fish from > > getting sick in the first place... and that starts with a proper > sized > > tank and proper tank maintenance. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of food, > > doesn't it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do > they > > actually eat? > > There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > > until > > > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable > pieces. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47260	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Oh and Mom told me my gel food didn't solidify because of the squash... Now don't ask me how she knew this, I didn't ask for specifics, LOL. I hope she wasn't trying to feed me squash jello as a kid though ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together until > it's > one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. I'm > guessing > that you didn't blend everything together in a blender? Did you do the gel > food or did you use a dehydrator? I guess my last batch was a combination > of gel and dehydrator since something I added cause the gelatin to NOT > work > so I had to bake the mess to get most of the liquid out and it turned > out OK > and more like a gel food after I baked it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Well, my cory catfish, ottos, blue rams, hillstream loaches, sparkling > gouramis and celestial pearl danios ate it well. But the rummy nose tetras > wouldn't touch it, and I consider them an indicator species for stuff like > good food:) plus my guppies and endlers weren't wild for it, which they > should have been since they will eat anything. I mean I guess it was OK, > but it wasn't like when I feed frozen bloodworms or frozen brine, > where they > all simply lose their minds. And, they all spat out the little pieces of > eggwhite - even the catfish passed over those. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by > > Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is supposed to > > be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. > > > > I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part of the > > recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a big > > batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None of the > > other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest adding that > > much egg to the recipe, if any. > > > > Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What kind > > of fish? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > Lenny - > > > > At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ > <http://americanaquariumproducts.com/> > > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is > > this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > > > INGREDIENT > > BASIC > > GOLDFISH > > CARNIVORE > > Whole Salmon > > 25% > > 20% > > 30% > > Peas > > 25% > > 25% > > 15% > > Egg > > 20% > > 15% > > 25% > > Brine shrimp > > 15% > > 15% > > 15% > > Spirulina Powder > > 10% > > 15% > > 5% > > Wheat Germ > > 0% > > 5% > > 0% > > Squid > > 0% > > 0% > > 5% > > Fish Oil > > 2% > > 2% > > 2% > > Corn Starch or Gelatin > > 3% > > 3% > > 3% > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? > > > I've > > > read through that article a few times over the years but never > > really > > > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > > > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > > > > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > > > > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is > > high > > > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent > > source > > > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, > > hard > > > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina > > powder, > > > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then add > > > corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on small > > > strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does not get to > > > hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > > > > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored > > gelatin > > > powder. > > > > > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > > > > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease the > > > spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added too for > > > carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is removed from > > whole > > > squid. > > > > > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent > > (Ich), > > > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish food > > > at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes to > > about ½ > > > teaspoon (or > > > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > > > > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but > > since > > > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > > > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > > > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more > > precise > > > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many > > other > > > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this guys > > > website in general since his information is very accurate in most of > > > his other articles. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the > > eggs > > > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken > > eggs. > > > > Scroll > > > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Do you still have all of the other DIY recipe links that I posted a while back? You'll get other, possibly better ideas from those sites as well. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food I think I'll skip the egg this time and add more salmon/shrimp. I don't want anything in there the kids would be feeding to the dogs, however well blended:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > If your FP isn't finely blending the stuff up completely, then I'd use > the blender. That way, the eggs, if you're going to use one or more > again, will be completely ground up with the other stuff and the fish > can't pick/spit it out... kind of like the spaghetti sauce > advertisement that claim that there are two servings of vegetables in > every serving and the kid won't feed it to the dog like he did with > the broccoli. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:10 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > so do you think I need to use my blender as opposed to a food > processor? I'm going to make another batch this afternoon... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > That's the purpose of making a gel food so the gelatin holds the > muck > > together while the smaller fish bite pieces off. I peel/break off > > little pieces (pinky nail size) off of a 2" square that I defrost as > > needed. My goldfish just inhale the entire pinky nail sized piece > and > > then chew it up for a moment before going for the next piece. I feed > > each of them two mouthfuls at each feeding, a few times a day and > this > > amount limits the amount of poop that comes out. Overfeeding > goldfish > > just causes the food to go right through their system and out the > > other end so fast that they don't really absorb any nutrition > from it. > > Here are some goldfish poop pics and when you see a goldfish with > a 2" > > or 6" long strand of poop hanging from it's butt, that means the > owner > > is feeding WAY TOO MUCH at each feeding and most of the food is just > > being wasted, literally... as waste. > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 > > > > I use to be a regular contributor to the site and I think they still > > have a few of my articles hosted on the site, but they kicked me > off a > > while back when I regularly explained that their "Goldfish Care > Sheet" > > was more of a "Goldfish Kill Sheet" since they are a goldfish site > > that still recommends only 10G per goldfish. The moderators > refuse to > > admit that their care sheet is grossly understating the amount of > > water volume needed per goldfish... > > but their members do have LOTS of health issues because of this > > recommendation so they have gotten pretty good at trying to help > sick > > goldfish so you can learn a lot from their health forums... on what > > not to do in the first place. I choose to try and prevent fish from > > getting sick in the first place... and that starts with a proper > sized > > tank and proper tank maintenance. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:39 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of food, > > doesn't it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do > they > > actually eat? > > There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > > until > > > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable > pieces. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47262	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

And you thought the yellow jello was lemon and banana flavored. ;-) Ask her how she knows. I'm curious. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food Oh and Mom told me my gel food didn't solidify because of the squash... Now don't ask me how she knew this, I didn't ask for specifics, LOL. I hope she wasn't trying to feed me squash jello as a kid though ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together until > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable pieces. > I'm guessing that you didn't blend everything together in a blender? > Did you do the gel food or did you use a dehydrator? I guess my last > batch was a combination of gel and dehydrator since something I added > cause the gelatin to NOT work so I had to bake the mess to get most of > the liquid out and it turned out OK and more like a gel food after I > baked it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:13 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > Well, my cory catfish, ottos, blue rams, hillstream loaches, sparkling > gouramis and celestial pearl danios ate it well. But the rummy nose > tetras wouldn't touch it, and I consider them an indicator species for > stuff like good food:) plus my guppies and endlers weren't wild for > it, which they should have been since they will eat anything. I mean I > guess it was OK, but it wasn't like when I feed frozen bloodworms or > frozen brine, where they all simply lose their minds. And, they all > spat out the little pieces of eggwhite - even the catfish passed over > those. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Ahhhh OK. It seems like he should have separated the categories by > > Herbivore, Omnivore and Carnivore. I guess the "Basic" is supposed > > to be Omnivore but then a Goldfish is also an Omnivore so I'm not sure. > > > > I'm not sure about using 15% to 25% of hard boiled eggs as part of > > the recipe either. I thought it was just one hard boiled egg in a > > big batch of food, not the larger percentage he has indicated. None > > of the other recipes that I have saved in my favorites suggest > > adding that much egg to the recipe, if any. > > > > Did you say that your carnivorous fish do not like the food? What > > kind of fish? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:54 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > Lenny - > > > > At this link http://americanaquariumproducts.com/ > <http://americanaquariumproducts.com/> > > Quality_Fish_Food.html - right below the part you snipped, there is > > this chart which is what I used. I used the carnivore category:) > > > > Here are basic percentages, please note that you can change these > > percentages to suit your fish food requirements: > > > > INGREDIENT > > BASIC > > GOLDFISH > > CARNIVORE > > Whole Salmon > > 25% > > 20% > > 30% > > Peas > > 25% > > 25% > > 15% > > Egg > > 20% > > 15% > > 25% > > Brine shrimp > > 15% > > 15% > > 15% > > Spirulina Powder > > 10% > > 15% > > 5% > > Wheat Germ > > 0% > > 5% > > 0% > > Squid > > 0% > > 0% > > 5% > > Fish Oil > > 2% > > 2% > > 2% > > Corn Starch or Gelatin > > 3% > > 3% > > 3% > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:49 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > So you did this one with the dehydrator or did you make a Gel food? > > > I've > > > read through that article a few times over the years but never > > really > > > noted it as a DIY fish food recipe site. I just looked at it more > > > closely and saw this half-hearted recipe. > > > > > > HOMEMADE FISH FOOD: > > > > > > You can make your own supplement for general fish feeding that is > > high > > > in DL-methionine; Start with whole salmon which is an excellent > > source > > > of carotene for color (frozen or even canned works), frozen peas, > > hard > > > boiled egg, frozen or FD brine shrimp, duck weed or spirulina > > powder, > > > and fish oil (cod liver oil works fine). Blend this mixture then > > > add corn starch to the paste to dehydrate. Spread this paste on > > > small strips of foil (or even wax paper if your dehydrator does > > > not get to hot). Make sure you leave room for air circulation. > > > > > > *For a frozen food, substitute the corn starch with unflavored > > gelatin > > > powder. > > > > > > *For goldfish and koi, add wheat germ powder. > > > > > > *For more carnivorous fish increase the whole fish and decrease > > > the spirulina powder or duckweed. Calamari (squid) can be added > > > too for carnivorous fish, but make sure that all the ink is > > > removed from > > whole > > > squid. > > > > > > * For better attraction (smell) as well as a parasite repellent > > (Ich), > > > you can add garlic powder to each batch of frozen or dried fish > > > food at a rate of less than 1% of the prepared batch, this comes > > > to > > about ½ > > > teaspoon (or > > > less) per one cup batch of wet fish food (before drying/freezing) > > > > > > For spirulina powder, Spirulina 20 Flake can be substituted, but > > since > > > this already a complete diet for many fish, I double the amount of > > > this and decrease other ingredients by comparable amounts. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > Considering all of the other ingredients, a single hard boiled egg > > > should not matter.. but I don't like that he doesn't list more > > precise > > > measurements and leaves too much to speculation. One of the many > > other > > > DIY fish foods are easier to make, IMO, although I do like this > > > guys website in general since his information is very accurate in > > > most of his other articles. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:22 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > > > Yes, this is the article with the recipe that I used that had the > > eggs > > > in it. My fish were not thrilled, so I need to modify... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Here's what one reputable site says about hard boiled chicken > > eggs. > > > > Scroll > > > > down to the section, "Here Are A Few Building Block Ingredients". > > > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html > <http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47263	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Floating Food

Ya, I'm going over those now. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Do you still have all of the other DIY recipe links that I posted a > while > back? You'll get other, possibly better ideas from those sites as > well. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > I think I'll skip the egg this time and add more salmon/shrimp. I > don't want > anything in there the kids would be feeding to the dogs, however well > blended:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If your FP isn't finely blending the stuff up completely, then > I'd use > > the blender. That way, the eggs, if you're going to use one or more > > again, will be completely ground up with the other stuff and the > fish > > can't pick/spit it out... kind of like the spaghetti sauce > > advertisement that claim that there are two servings of > vegetables in > > every serving and the kid won't feed it to the dog like he did with > > the broccoli. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:10 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > so do you think I need to use my blender as opposed to a food > > processor? I'm going to make another batch this afternoon... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > That's the purpose of making a gel food so the gelatin holds the > > muck > > > together while the smaller fish bite pieces off. I peel/break off > > > little pieces (pinky nail size) off of a 2" square that I > defrost as > > > needed. My goldfish just inhale the entire pinky nail sized piece > > and > > > then chew it up for a moment before going for the next piece. I > feed > > > each of them two mouthfuls at each feeding, a few times a day and > > this > > > amount limits the amount of poop that comes out. Overfeeding > > goldfish > > > just causes the food to go right through their system and out the > > > other end so fast that they don't really absorb any nutrition > > from it. > > > Here are some goldfish poop pics and when you see a goldfish with > > a 2" > > > or 6" long strand of poop hanging from it's butt, that means the > > owner > > > is feeding WAY TOO MUCH at each feeding and most of the food is > just > > > being wasted, literally... as waste. > > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2364 > > > > > > I use to be a regular contributor to the site and I think they > still > > > have a few of my articles hosted on the site, but they kicked me > > off a > > > while back when I regularly explained that their "Goldfish Care > > Sheet" > > > was more of a "Goldfish Kill Sheet" since they are a goldfish site > > > that still recommends only 10G per goldfish. The moderators > > refuse to > > > admit that their care sheet is grossly understating the amount of > > > water volume needed per goldfish... > > > but their members do have LOTS of health issues because of this > > > recommendation so they have gotten pretty good at trying to help > > sick > > > goldfish so you can learn a lot from their health forums... on > what > > > not to do in the first place. I choose to try and prevent fish > from > > > getting sick in the first place... and that starts with a proper > > sized > > > tank and proper tank maintenance. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:39 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Floating Food > > > > > > I'm confused about this part too: when you serve this type of > food, > > > doesn't it just turn into a cloud of nothing in the tank? What do > > they > > > actually eat? > > > There are no little pieces or chunks that they eat? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > When I make my DIY gel food batches, I blend everything together > > > until > > > > it's one big green slimy goo so there is no distinguishable > > pieces. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47264	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?

Thanks, Lenny and Ray, for replying. I'm sorry I take so long to get back. We just found out a couple of days ago that hubby's long shot application for a supervisor position at the Durango Post Office actually went through and he leaves for Colorado in a week and two days. We have two acres of land near Pagosa Springs, but there's nothing on it, yet, so we're looking at a year or more with him out there and me here in Michigan getting the house ready to sell in an area that has a 15% or more unemployment rate. The spot on CB's tail is slightly smaller, so I think I'll give the salt until after hubby leaves town. After that, I'll have all kinds of free time to work on the problem, but not so much money, because hubby will be renting a room for $500 a month. If I can get rid of that spot, I will probably start looking to re-home the entire tank. I can't see the tank doing well on a three day cross-country journey. I can't see the fish doing well either in a plastic tub with a lid on it, and getting filtration only overnight when the camper is hooked up to electricity in a campgrounds. I suppose it would beat being flushed down the toilet (JK!). Right now my head is spinning too much to sort out the info in Ray's old message. I never thought to google for the posts. I'll have to keep that one in mind. I did, however, find my own archive of old emails from a backup save done when my last CPU was acting up, so I have a lot of reading to do, now. I'll let you all know how things are going next week, or sooner if things get worse. Thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> I just used an Google Advanced search with Deb's signature line, the key words, fuzzy and cotton and then specified to only search the website yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife and Google found three hits, all in the same thread. It took about a minute or two. ;-) I rarely use the search field in Yahoo Groups since it doesn't seem to work very well when I've tried using it in the past. According to the YahooGroups official blog, they have supposedly fixed the search function but I like Google and their advanced search form when looking for info on a specific site. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@... Lenny, Thank you very much for digging out that past post of mine to DebR -- and CB, Lucille and Raven -- I don't know if I could have found it any faster, even though I was thinking of putting in a search. Failing that, I was just about to make a much abbreviated reply recommending the use of the Furan II, as it contains the very medications needed that I initially mentioned for treating this fungus. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47265	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Home made foods/live foods

Well, my latest DIY recipe was a big success - cut out the eggs and cut back on the spirulina and peas, added more fish and used carrots and zucchini. Everyone pigged out except my dwarf puffer and my pair of scarlet badis. No surprise there as these two species only eat frozen brine or bloodworms for me. I would like to grow livefood for my micro fish like the scarlet badis and puffer but I feel like baby brine, which I know how to grow, is just too tiny. Does anyone know how hard or unpleasant it is to try and grow microworms? Or grindel worms? I think white worms would be too big for nano fish. Should I purchase the book Culturing Live Foods? Or is it not that hard? Does anyone know where to buy cultures? There was a culture guy called killer-aquatics on aquabid or ebay but he seems disreputable... Thanks! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47266	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Home made foods/live foods

I don't think you need a book. Here's some websites and the instructions all seem pretty simple. If you have a local fish club, you can often get starter cultures from fell hobbyists. Some LFS also will sell you some live worms and then you can use them as a culture for repeated growing. It sounds like the Micro Worms might be what you are looking for... for your "micro fish". ;-) http://www.sydneycichlid.com/live-food.htm http://fish.mongabay.com/food.htm http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishfood/commonlivefood.php http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishfood/culturingmicroworms.php http://www.killi.net/feeding/live/cultured/worms/ (Micro, Vinegar, Grindal, White, Earth) This next website used to sell cultures over the net but have since shut down. The site is only available on the Internet Archives Wayback Machine at this link, for informational purposes. http://web.archive.org/web/20070202015209/http://members.aol.com/larval1/cri tters.htm OR http://tinyurl.com/Members-AOL-Critters-For-Sale If you can't find a local source, I'm sure there are folks on Aquabid OR maybe even out here in this group that could mail you a culture. I don't grow any or I'd be happy to mail you some. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made foods/live foods Well, my latest DIY recipe was a big success - cut out the eggs and cut back on the spirulina and peas, added more fish and used carrots and zucchini. Everyone pigged out except my dwarf puffer and my pair of scarlet badis. No surprise there as these two species only eat frozen brine or bloodworms for me. I would like to grow livefood for my micro fish like the scarlet badis and puffer but I feel like baby brine, which I know how to grow, is just too tiny. Does anyone know how hard or unpleasant it is to try and grow microworms? Or grindel worms? I think white worms would be too big for nano fish. Should I purchase the book Culturing Live Foods? Or is it not that hard? Does anyone know where to buy cultures? There was a culture guy called killer-aquatics on aquabid or ebay but he seems disreputable... Thanks! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47267	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/13/2010
Subject: Re: Home made foods/live foods

Thanks, Lenny. I will ask at Planted Tank if anyone has any to sell... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I don't think you need a book. Here's some websites and the > instructions > all seem pretty simple. If you have a local fish club, you can > often get > starter cultures from fell hobbyists. Some LFS also will sell you > some live > worms and then you can use them as a culture for repeated growing. It > sounds like the Micro Worms might be what you are looking for... > for your > "micro fish". ;-) > > http://www.sydneycichlid.com/live-food.htm > > http://fish.mongabay.com/food.htm > > http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html > > http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishfood/commonlivefood.php > > http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishfood/culturingmicroworms.php > > http://www.killi.net/feeding/live/cultured/worms/ (Micro, Vinegar, > Grindal, > White, Earth) > > This next website used to sell cultures over the net but have since > shut > down. The site is only available on the Internet Archives Wayback > Machine > at this link, for informational purposes. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070202015209/http://members.aol.com/ > larval1/cri > tters.htm > > OR http://tinyurl.com/Members-AOL-Critters-For-Sale > > If you can't find a local source, I'm sure there are folks on > Aquabid OR > maybe even out here in this group that could mail you a culture. I > don't > grow any or I'd be happy to mail you some. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Home made foods/live foods > > Well, my latest DIY recipe was a big success - cut out the eggs and > cut back > on the spirulina and peas, added more fish and used carrots and > zucchini. > Everyone pigged out except my dwarf puffer and my pair of scarlet > badis. No > surprise there as these two species only eat frozen brine or > bloodworms for > me. > > I would like to grow livefood for my micro fish like the scarlet > badis and > puffer but I feel like baby brine, which I know how to grow, is > just too > tiny. Does anyone know how hard or unpleasant it is to try and grow > microworms? Or grindel worms? I think white worms would be too big > for nano > fish. > > Should I purchase the book Culturing Live Foods? Or is it not that > hard? > > Does anyone know where to buy cultures? > > There was a culture guy called killer-aquatics on aquabid or ebay > but he > seems disreputable... > > Thanks! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47268	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus again?

Deb(R), Congrats to your hubby on getting that promotion. Wishing you guys the best of luck and prosperity in the future in Colorado (and hoping you can sell your house in reasonable amount of time). As for your fish and a journey to another location with you, there's no need for them to be fed for 3 days as they'll survive otherwise; I'd recommend your considering bring them along with you. You could bring along an extra pail of water to make PWC's each day and buy a battery-operated air pump for the trip. At night just plug in your house current air pump at the motels you'll be stopping at along the way. To simplify my archived statement in one sentence, treat the fungus with Furan II, or any other medication (such as Jungle's Fungus Eliminator) containing Nitrofurazone. and Furazolidone. Salt is always detrimental to this type of fungal growth (depending on the amount used) even though it can take longer. Sounds like it has reached a turning point though, so hopefully this will cure in short time. Ray.</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47269	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Home made foods/live foods

Lainey, I feed my Badis badis newly hatched BBS; it's bnot too small for them since they have small mouths anyway, although I do supplement it with chopped blackworms. Microworms are easily raised and not really unpleasant at all (I'm raising them presently). The size of their container will depend on how many fish you're going to feed with them. To give you an idea though, I use a plastic shoebox and fill the bottom with a minimum layer (perhaps about 1/4" thick) of plain uncooked quick oats (oatmeal), no apples & cinnamon needed < g >, with just enough water to make a thin paste. To that, I mix in a sparse teaspoon of sugar and about 1/2 teaspoon of yeast, then add some microworms to it from my previous batch, and cover it. Within a week, the microworms will be seen crawling about a third of the way up the sides on the container. You can just scrape them off with a piece of cardboard and feed them to the fish. They will be free of having any oatmeal on them, so you don't need to be concerned about polluting the tank with the cereal. As you see the culture start dwindling down after a couple of weeks, you'll know that you'll need to start a new culture in a second container so that you can continue them. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47270	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: 31 Aquariums From Wow to WTF!

http://webecoist.com/2010/02/25/31-aquariums-from-wow-to-wtf-pics/ http://tinyurl.com/ycxf8re No doubt you have already seen some of these, they have been floating around on the web for some time, but others, are new, at least to me. Some pretty strange ideas here, not all healthy for the fish. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47271	From: walkswithshelties	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Arowana Mystery

Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47272	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg

Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM   Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47273	From: Joseph	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Red top zebra fry update - and other questions

Good morning! I have a couple of questions for the group (I've really appreciated the help in the past). First, a quick update. Some of you may remember my questions previously about our red top zebra spawning. The fry are doing wonderfully! We still have approximately 25 (I don't believe we've lost any!). They seem bigger every day, eat voraciously, and are definitely our new "favorite" fry! Another thank you to all of you who posted ideas and suggestions. Now...a couple of questions. (1) We so far haven't put the female red top zebra mother back with the father. She is in the new 135 gallon community cichlid tank, but he is still in the "old" tank. Does anyone have thoughts on how/when to add him back to the group? Our primary concern is keeping her safe. The tank does have a number of rocks, caves, etc. for hiding. Any thoughts? (2) We have 2 small groups of gouramis (something new for us), and we're considering trying to join the 2 groups. Group 1 (and I apologize for using popular names...it's all I know) consists of 2 blue gouramis (both about 5 inches), 1 kissing gourami (about 5 inches), and 1 gold gourami (about 4 inches). Group 2 is 5 opaline gouramis which have just their quarantine period and are now ready to move into a "regular" tank. I'm hoping someone out there has experience with fish like these and can tell me - are they likely to do OK together, or will the smaller fish be injured by the larger ones? Is there anything I can do to make the transition easier? Again - thanks for all your help! Joe (& Tami)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47274	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg

NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM   Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47275	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra fry update - and other questions

As long as you have 4 or more red top zebra (Metriaclima prysonotos?) females in the tank you can add the male any time. Always better to add fish to an established tank in groups rather than adding one fish. If you do not have that many females of that species, I would acquire them and quarantine them and add them to the tank with the father all at once. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Red top zebra fry update - and other questions Good morning! I have a couple of questions for the group (I've really appreciated the help in the past). First, a quick update. Some of you may remember my questions previously about our red top zebra spawning. The fry are doing wonderfully! We still have approximately 25 (I don't believe we've lost any!). They seem bigger every day, eat voraciously, and are definitely our new "favorite" fry! Another thank you to all of you who posted ideas and suggestions. Now...a couple of questions. (1) We so far haven't put the female red top zebra mother back with the father. She is in the new 135 gallon community cichlid tank, but he is still in the "old" tank. Does anyone have thoughts on how/when to add him back to the group? Our primary concern is keeping her safe. The tank does have a number of rocks, caves, etc. for hiding. Any thoughts? (2) We have 2 small groups of gouramis (something new for us), and we're considering trying to join the 2 groups. Group 1 (and I apologize for using popular names...it's all I know) consists of 2 blue gouramis (both about 5 inches), 1 kissing gourami (about 5 inches), and 1 gold gourami (about 4 inches). Group 2 is 5 opaline gouramis which have just their quarantine period and are now ready to move into a "regular" tank. I'm hoping someone out there has experience with fish like these and can tell me - are they likely to do OK together, or will the smaller fish be injured by the larger ones? Is there anything I can do to make the transition easier? Again - thanks for all your help! Joe (& Tami) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47276	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree

Greg posted: The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the fish hanging at the surface. It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. What do you think?. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM   NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM   Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Red top zebra fry update - and other questions

What size tank do you have for the Gourami's? From my count, you have nine of them so you would need a BIG tank, well planted... at least 15G per Gourami for eight of them and at least 60G for the other one (see below), not a deep tank so there is plenty of surface area for all of the males to have space for a territory. You should have at least two females for each male to minimize fighting. More than likely, the blue, gold and opaline gourami's are all the same species, also called 3-spot Gourami, Trichogaster trichopterus, with different color variants and patterns BUT the Kissing Gourami is a completely different species, Helostoma temmincki and grows MUCH larger than the 6" 3-spot Gourami. It grows to 12"+. I'm not sure how mixing these two will work out as it will depend on the temperament of the lone Kissing Gourami and your mix of males and females for the 3-spot Gourami's. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Trichogaster%20trichopterus.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Helostoma_temmincki.html Neither of these are Suggested Companions of each other. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 12:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Red top zebra fry update - and other questions As long as you have 4 or more red top zebra (Metriaclima prysonotos?) females in the tank you can add the male any time. Always better to add fish to an established tank in groups rather than adding one fish. If you do not have that many females of that species, I would acquire them and quarantine them and add them to the tank with the father all at once. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 12:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Red top zebra fry update - and other questions Good morning! I have a couple of questions for the group (I've really appreciated the help in the past). First, a quick update. Some of you may remember my questions previously about our red top zebra spawning. The fry are doing wonderfully! We still have approximately 25 (I don't believe we've lost any!). They seem bigger every day, eat voraciously, and are definitely our new "favorite" fry! Another thank you to all of you who posted ideas and suggestions. Now...a couple of questions. (1) We so far haven't put the female red top zebra mother back with the father. She is in the new 135 gallon community cichlid tank, but he is still in the "old" tank. Does anyone have thoughts on how/when to add him back to the group? Our primary concern is keeping her safe. The tank does have a number of rocks, caves, etc. for hiding. Any thoughts? (2) We have 2 small groups of gouramis (something new for us), and we're considering trying to join the 2 groups. Group 1 (and I apologize for using popular names...it's all I know) consists of 2 blue gouramis (both about 5 inches), 1 kissing gourami (about 5 inches), and 1 gold gourami (about 4 inches). Group 2 is 5 opaline gouramis which have just their quarantine period and are now ready to move into a "regular" tank. I'm hoping someone out there has experience with fish like these and can tell me - are they likely to do OK together, or will the smaller fish be injured by the larger ones? Is there anything I can do to make the transition easier? Again - thanks for all your help! Joe (& Tami)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47278	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree

Harry, An arowana hanging at the surface is not a good clue to nitrite poisoning or any other factor that may cause a fish to hang at the surface. That is their nature, to be at the surface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree Greg posted: The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the fish hanging at the surface. It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. What do you think?. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47279	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve

A fish hanging at the surface gasping for air is a pretty good indication that something is wrong. Wouldn't you agree/. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:47 PM   Harry, An arowana hanging at the surface is not a good clue to nitrite poisoning or any other factor that may cause a fish to hang at the surface. That is their nature, to be at the surface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:00 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree Greg posted: The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the fish hanging at the surface. It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. What do you think?. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47280	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Animal Rights & Fish

Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live-sushi_p.html?f= most-commented-grub-7d5 http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47281	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree

There's not enough history on the tank which is why I said we need more info... the more, the merrier. Something else I just thought of is with the high levels of protein being fed to the fish, which is it's normal diet, I wonder if a layer of oils might not have formed on the surface, preventing proper gas exchange, resulting in low O2 levels in the water and elevated CO2 and other potentially toxic gases as you mentioned. It's why I have this "sick fish" questionnaire on my blog.. to try and elicit as much info as possible from the start. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html We understand that if you are having a problem, especially one resulting is sick fish, you want help as soon as possible. In order to give you answers as quickly as we can, we need you to provide answers to as many of the questions below as possible, especially test readings. It would be best if you cut and paste this entire set of questions into your first post, in one of the forums listed on the right of this page, to be sure you answer each inquiry. Test readings (in numbers) for: Ammonia: Nitrite: Nitrate: pH: GH: KH: Temperature: Also post your tap water baseline numbers if known. If not known, now would be a good time to start finding out what they are. See my article on this page http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml Tank size: Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): Water change amount and when the last one was done: Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: How long the tank has been set up: Water or filter additives or pH adjusters used: Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants some common examples are: Fish behavior- separating from school hiding breathing rapidly hanging at surface sitting on bottom having difficulty swimming scraping body on ornaments/plants/gravel Fish appearance- pale or different in color (describe) raised spots/tufts of cottony material/cloudy patches on skin fins fraying chunks missing from fins open sores bent spine Tank appearance- whitish cloudy water greenish cloudy water excessive algae (specify color) We'll try to help as best we can. (END SNIP) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree Greg posted: The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the fish hanging at the surface. It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. What do you think?. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM   NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM   Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47282	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve

Actually, I was just reading more on them, since they aren't a typical aquarium species due to the fact that they grow so large (3' to 4') so they would need a 500G+ sized tank for long term care... but they actually can and do gulp air at the surface, into their swim bladder, and this helps them to get sufficient O2 levels, I'm presuming to facilitate their high metabolism. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve A fish hanging at the surface gasping for air is a pretty good indication that something is wrong. Wouldn't you agree/. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:47 PM Harry, An arowana hanging at the surface is not a good clue to nitrite poisoning or any other factor that may cause a fish to hang at the surface. That is their nature, to be at the surface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:00 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree Greg posted: The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the fish hanging at the surface. It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. What do you think?. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47283	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again

What Greg could do is check for all the symptoms of Nitrite poisoning since gasping for air is natural to this fish. (LOL) Fish gasp for breath at the water surface Fish hang near water outlets Fish is listless Tan or brown gills Rapid gill movement Then I think we all would agree some maintenance is in order. Water changes and UGF maintenance. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 3:07 PM   Actually, I was just reading more on them, since they aren't a typical aquarium species due to the fact that they grow so large (3' to 4') so they would need a 500G+ sized tank for long term care... but they actually can and do gulp air at the surface, into their swim bladder, and this helps them to get sufficient O2 levels, I'm presuming to facilitate their high metabolism. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree/Steve A fish hanging at the surface gasping for air is a pretty good indication that something is wrong. Wouldn't you agree/. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:47 PM Harry, An arowana hanging at the surface is not a good clue to nitrite poisoning or any other factor that may cause a fish to hang at the surface. That is their nature, to be at the surface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:00 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree Greg posted: The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the fish hanging at the surface. It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. What do you think?. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47284	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again

I'm not sure he saved the fish for necropsy or even better external examination... it died already. He also mentioned, in his first post, "I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances.... The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury....", which implies that he has had previous Arowana's that died suddenly under mysterious circumstances. Until he posts back with more info, we can only speculate. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again What Greg could do is check for all the symptoms of Nitrite poisoning since gasping for air is natural to this fish. (LOL) Fish gasp for breath at the water surface Fish hang near water outlets Fish is listless Tan or brown gills Rapid gill movement Then I think we all would agree some maintenance is in order. Water changes and UGF maintenance. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 3:07 PM   Actually, I was just reading more on them, since they aren't a typical aquarium species due to the fact that they grow so large (3' to 4') so they would need a 500G+ sized tank for long term care... but they actually can and do gulp air at the surface, into their swim bladder, and this helps them to get sufficient O2 levels, I'm presuming to facilitate their high metabolism. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree/Steve A fish hanging at the surface gasping for air is a pretty good indication that something is wrong. Wouldn't you agree/. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:47 PM Harry, An arowana hanging at the surface is not a good clue to nitrite poisoning or any other factor that may cause a fish to hang at the surface. That is their nature, to be at the surface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:00 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree Greg posted: The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the fish hanging at the surface. It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. What do you think?. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47285	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again

Harry, As blenny has pointed out (for your original reply to me), hanging at eh surface (as I said) is not a bad sign for an arowana, neither is gasping for air, unless it is very frequent. Rapid gill movement will indicate a problem, but for an arowana, it may just be a lack of oxygen content in the water, and not nitrite poisoning. Your other symptoms: Fish hanging near water outlets--see above about oxygen requirements. Fish is listless--arowanas spend a lot of time just hanging in a location. Tan or brown gills--now we are talking about something. Definitely an indication something is wrong. What the fishkeeper really needs to look for is aberrant behavior, behavior that is not the norm for the fish. The only aberrant behavior noted by Greg was that the fish did not eat the previous day, and he shrugged it off as he thought the offering might have been too large, which, apparently, was already on his mind when he placed the cricket in the tank. My feeling is that we are probably looking at a problem that may be caused by the UGF he is using in his tank. UGF's were originally sold as a relatively carefree filtration method, which they are not. It was years before I learned that one should clean the mulm that would collect from under the filters. Mulm is supposed to be inert, and generally is, but it can also affect the water flow through the filter, so one may not be getting the filtering that one expects when the filter is fresh. There are also "dead" spots, where the water flow is not enough, or absent, and these areas can be friendly to the growth of anaerobic bacteria, which is not good for the health of the tank. Let us wait for Greg to reply to the numerous comments that have already been posted and we can take it from there, depending on his comments and answers to the questions that have been asked. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 3:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again What Greg could do is check for all the symptoms of Nitrite poisoning since gasping for air is natural to this fish. (LOL) Fish gasp for breath at the water surface Fish hang near water outlets Fish is listless Tan or brown gills Rapid gill movement Then I think we all would agree some maintenance is in order. Water changes and UGF maintenance. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 3:07 PM Actually, I was just reading more on them, since they aren't a typical aquarium species due to the fact that they grow so large (3' to 4') so they would need a 500G+ sized tank for long term care... but they actually can and do gulp air at the surface, into their swim bladder, and this helps them to get sufficient O2 levels, I'm presuming to facilitate their high metabolism. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:51 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree/Steve A fish hanging at the surface gasping for air is a pretty good indication that something is wrong. Wouldn't you agree/. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:47 PM Harry, An arowana hanging at the surface is not a good clue to nitrite poisoning or any other factor that may cause a fish to hang at the surface. That is their nature, to be at the surface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:00 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree Greg posted: The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the fish hanging at the surface. It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. What do you think?. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47286	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live-sushi_p.html?f= most-commented-grub-7d5 http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47287	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Deb, Why waste the time for the cleaver? When placed in boiling water they die instantly. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live-sushi_p.html?f= most-commented-grub-7d5 http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47288	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Is this true? I always thought it took a few seconds of agony - no? I would be most relieved to find out it is instant. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Deb, > > Why waste the time for the cleaver? When placed in boiling water > they die > instantly. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish > > I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding > humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed > humanely > before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver > through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has > a brain > and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being > eaten > alive by humans. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > Ray, > > Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR > (Animal > Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably > too many > words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a > read of this > article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". > http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live- > sushi_p.html?f= > most-commented-grub-7d5 > http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 > > How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in > restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) > that are > eventually prepared for someone's meal? > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47289	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

What about crawfish? We boil them by the 50 pound sack (hundreds) at a time. Should I have to take a needle to the brain of each of the hundreds of crawfish before I can boil them? Crabs are also boiled by the dozens at a time... maybe even hundreds at a time for some restaurants this time of year down here (Lent). Many restaurants boil hundreds of pounds of crawfish at a time. I *guess* that with lobsters, usually being boiled one or a few at a time, this extra step could be taken but I'm sure some restaurants might even boil lobsters at a high volume if it's one of their main menu items. Cracking the shell of the head would likely allow guts/brain matter to escape into the water during the boiling process and that might mean that the water has to be changed more frequently and then the big pot brought back to a boil again, which is time consuming for a BIG pot of water. I've never worked in a kitchen for a restaurant that had lobster on the menu so I'm not sure exactly how they do things in the back but I'm guessing if they have enough volume, they keep the pot boiling or near boiling at all times during rush hours. I guess for me, that it boils down to this. Pets should be treated humanely, food should be killed and eaten regardless of how it is killed. Of course, some cultures eat live food items so all of the above would be moot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 5:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live-sushi_p.html?f= most-commented-grub-7d5 http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47290	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Thanks for telling us that - I had wondered, but I honestly thought that lobsters must be boiled alive. I thought that surely tehy'd sometimes be killed first if they could be, and after all these years. What is the reason for boiling them alive, anyhow? They don't cook if they're dead? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live-sushi_p.html?f= most-commented-grub-7d5 http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47291	From: harry perry	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish/Lenny

This is always a touchy subject. You could try to separate pets from food animals but then the Hawaiians at one time raised dogs for food. Gouramis are raised for food in some cultures. Eels are actually quite good and good for you. Of course the folks in New Orleans will eat anything if you put enough hot sauce on it. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:00 PM   What about crawfish? We boil them by the 50 pound sack (hundreds) at a time. Should I have to take a needle to the brain of each of the hundreds of crawfish before I can boil them? Crabs are also boiled by the dozens at a time... maybe even hundreds at a time for some restaurants this time of year down here (Lent). Many restaurants boil hundreds of pounds of crawfish at a time. I *guess* that with lobsters, usually being boiled one or a few at a time, this extra step could be taken but I'm sure some restaurants might even boil lobsters at a high volume if it's one of their main menu items. Cracking the shell of the head would likely allow guts/brain matter to escape into the water during the boiling process and that might mean that the water has to be changed more frequently and then the big pot brought back to a boil again, which is time consuming for a BIG pot of water. I've never worked in a kitchen for a restaurant that had lobster on the menu so I'm not sure exactly how they do things in the back but I'm guessing if they have enough volume, they keep the pot boiling or near boiling at all times during rush hours. I guess for me, that it boils down to this. Pets should be treated humanely, food should be killed and eaten regardless of how it is killed. Of course, some cultures eat live food items so all of the above would be moot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 5:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com> Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork. grubstreet. com/2010/ 03/aspca_ crashes_the_ live-sushi_ p.html?f= most-commented- grub-7d5 http://tinyurl. com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47292	From: William M	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree

My thoughts are with the crickets, where did he get them from? Were they sprayed with anything? It could be poisoning of the fish due to poisoning of the food source. Also what other fish are in the tank that the arowana was in. If he had large cichlids they ;may have killed the fish with out leaving any marks. Was he feeding any other foods that might have impacted --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > There's not enough history on the tank which is why I said we need more > info... the more, the merrier. Something else I just thought of is with the > high levels of protein being fed to the fish, which is it's normal diet, I > wonder if a layer of oils might not have formed on the surface, preventing > proper gas exchange, resulting in low O2 levels in the water and elevated > CO2 and other potentially toxic gases as you mentioned. > > It's why I have this "sick fish" questionnaire on my blog.. to try and > elicit as much info as possible from the start. > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html > > We understand that if you are having a problem, especially one resulting is > sick fish, you want help as soon as possible. In order to give you answers > as quickly as we can, we need you to provide answers to as many of the > questions below as possible, especially test readings. > > It would be best if you cut and paste this entire set of questions into your > first post, in one of the forums listed on the right of this page, to be > sure you answer each inquiry. > > Test readings (in numbers) for: > Ammonia: > Nitrite: > Nitrate: > pH: > GH: > KH: > Temperature: > > Also post your tap water baseline numbers if known. If not known, now would > be a good time to start finding out what they are. See my article on this > page > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht > ml > > Tank size: > Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): > Water change amount and when the last one was done: > Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: > How long the tank has been set up: > Water or filter additives or pH adjusters used: > Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: > > Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd > behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants some > common examples are: > Fish behavior- > separating from school > hiding > breathing rapidly > hanging at surface > sitting on bottom > having difficulty swimming > scraping body on ornaments/plants/gravel > > Fish appearance- > pale or different in color (describe) > raised spots/tufts of cottony material/cloudy patches on skin > fins fraying > chunks missing from fins > open sores > bent spine > > Tank appearance- > whitish cloudy water > greenish cloudy water > excessive algae (specify color) > > We'll try to help as best we can. > (END SNIP) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree > > Greg posted: > > The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to > > yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets > > a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 > > gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been > > doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up > > for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. > > So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 > hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the > fish hanging at the surface. > > It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. > What do you think?. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating > Nitrite > > instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your > > fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) > > of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel > > and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your > > bio-filtration can handle. > > > > Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? > > > > Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure > > things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On > > Behalf Of harry perry > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg > > > > Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a > > fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in > > minutes and then expel from the surface. > > > > Harry > > > > --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: > > > > From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM > > > >   > > > > Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... > > > > I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get > > it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe > > something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. > > > > The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to > > yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets > > a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 > > gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been > > doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up > > for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. > > > > Water tests show: > > > > pH: 7.2 > > > > Ammonia: 0 > > > > NO2: 5 ppm > > > > The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or > > injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the > > last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the > > cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large > > for it to eat. > > > > I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches > > to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank > > setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what > > happened. > > > > Any insight on this loss appreciated. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > > of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47293	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish/Lenny

Yep. I think I might even try some hot sauce on my corn flakes as a midnight snack tonight. ;-) If the dogs were being raised for food, I doubt that they would also be pets. This adds a whole new meaning to when it's time to wok the dog. Do they serve wiener dogs on a bun? Is German shepherd served with sauerkraut? LOL OK.. enough of my lame jokes. :-P I know this happens on some smaller family farms where the kids might adopt a particular food animal as a pet and then the family has to make the financial decision whether to keep it as a pet or consider it as the commodity it was intended. When you look at the family farm and the dilemma that occurs when one of the kids adopt one of the farm animals as a pet, I think this reinforces my argument that if it's a pet, it's treated humanely and money is spent on a veterinarian when it's time, if it's a food item, then efficiency and cost effectiveness in killing and cooking it comes into play. The bigger the food item, like with a cow, then a bullet to the brain might be cost effective and efficient but as the food item gets smaller, then individually killing the food item first becomes cost prohibitive. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish/Lenny This is always a touchy subject. You could try to separate pets from food animals but then the Hawaiians at one time raised dogs for food. Gouramis are raised for food in some cultures. Eels are actually quite good and good for you. Of course the folks in New Orleans will eat anything if you put enough hot sauce on it. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:00 PM What about crawfish? We boil them by the 50 pound sack (hundreds) at a time. Should I have to take a needle to the brain of each of the hundreds of crawfish before I can boil them? Crabs are also boiled by the dozens at a time... maybe even hundreds at a time for some restaurants this time of year down here (Lent). Many restaurants boil hundreds of pounds of crawfish at a time. I *guess* that with lobsters, usually being boiled one or a few at a time, this extra step could be taken but I'm sure some restaurants might even boil lobsters at a high volume if it's one of their main menu items. Cracking the shell of the head would likely allow guts/brain matter to escape into the water during the boiling process and that might mean that the water has to be changed more frequently and then the big pot brought back to a boil again, which is time consuming for a BIG pot of water. I've never worked in a kitchen for a restaurant that had lobster on the menu so I'm not sure exactly how they do things in the back but I'm guessing if they have enough volume, they keep the pot boiling or near boiling at all times during rush hours. I guess for me, that it boils down to this. Pets should be treated humanely, food should be killed and eaten regardless of how it is killed. Of course, some cultures eat live food items so all of the above would be moot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 5:29 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@familyszabo. com> Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork. grubstreet. com/2010/ 03/aspca_ crashes_the_ live-sushi_ p.html?f= most-commented- grub-7d5 http://tinyurl. com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47294	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Lainey, This is what I have been told, and, having boiled my share of lobsters, it appears to be so. However, I've never been cooked in that manner, so I cannot talk from true experience. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Is this true? I always thought it took a few seconds of agony - no? I would be most relieved to find out it is instant. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Deb, > > Why waste the time for the cleaver? When placed in boiling water > they die > instantly. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish > > I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding > humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed > humanely > before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver > through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has > a brain > and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being > eaten > alive by humans. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > Ray, > > Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR > (Animal > Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably > too many > words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a > read of this > article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". > http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live- > sushi_p.html?f= > most-commented-grub-7d5 > http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 > > How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in > restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) > that are > eventually prepared for someone's meal? > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47295	From: William M	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

That couple extra seconds could be more misery for the lobsters than just putting it into the boiling water. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> wrote: > > I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding > humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely > before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver > through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain > and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten > alive by humans. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > Ray, > > Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal > Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many > words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this > article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". > http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live-sushi_p.html?f= > most-commented-grub-7d5 > http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 > > How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in > restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are > eventually prepared for someone's meal? > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47296	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

All this talk is making me hungry, and I just finished dinner. We tried something new, pork chops in a balsamic vinegar sauce. She said it was quite good. Animals used for food should be killed quickly, which is a humane manner. To do otherwise would not enhance the taste of the meat from them, if you get my drift, as the release of adrenalin and other chemicals by the animal would instigate a change in taste. It is the same should you need to euthanize a fish. The old flush down the toilet is not enough. Using an anesthetic (M-222, is it?) or placing them in a bag of water that is placed in the freezer are but two ways of properly ending the life of a fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish What about crawfish? We boil them by the 50 pound sack (hundreds) at a time. Should I have to take a needle to the brain of each of the hundreds of crawfish before I can boil them? Crabs are also boiled by the dozens at a time... maybe even hundreds at a time for some restaurants this time of year down here (Lent). Many restaurants boil hundreds of pounds of crawfish at a time. I *guess* that with lobsters, usually being boiled one or a few at a time, this extra step could be taken but I'm sure some restaurants might even boil lobsters at a high volume if it's one of their main menu items. Cracking the shell of the head would likely allow guts/brain matter to escape into the water during the boiling process and that might mean that the water has to be changed more frequently and then the big pot brought back to a boil again, which is time consuming for a BIG pot of water. I've never worked in a kitchen for a restaurant that had lobster on the menu so I'm not sure exactly how they do things in the back but I'm guessing if they have enough volume, they keep the pot boiling or near boiling at all times during rush hours. I guess for me, that it boils down to this. Pets should be treated humanely, food should be killed and eaten regardless of how it is killed. Of course, some cultures eat live food items so all of the above would be moot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 5:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live-sushi_p.html?f= most-commented-grub-7d5 http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47297	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

The meat spoils immediately upon death without cooking it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Thanks for telling us that - I had wondered, but I honestly thought that lobsters must be boiled alive. I thought that surely tehy'd sometimes be killed first if they could be, and after all these years. What is the reason for boiling them alive, anyhow? They don't cook if they're dead? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live-sushi_p.html?f= most-commented-grub-7d5 http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47298	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/14/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

I know with boiled crawfish, we can tell the dead ones that were boiled from the live ones that were boiled. The live ones curl their tails, the dead ones are limp. We don't eat the dead ones since we don't know how long they were dead before being boiled. I'm not sure it spoils immediately but the tail meat doesn't last long after they die before it starts to turn into mush when it's cooked. Something about enzymes that are released or created upon dying. This "patent" probably is trying to address this issue with crawfish tail meat. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3852500.html PRESERVATION OF CRAWFISH MEAT WITH HEPATO-PANCREATIC CRAWFISH DISTILLATE United States Patent 3852500 This invention relates to preserving the flavor of and increasing the storage life of crustacean meat. This invention is directed in particular to a process for the preservation of crawfish meat comprising heating hepato-pancreatic material of the crawfish at a temperature and pressure such as to cause continuous distillation, collecting a distillate material of about 50 to 70 percent by weight based on the initial material charge, and subjecting crawfish meat with a sufficient amount of said distillate material to allow for preservation of the meat under refrigerated conditions, and to a composition so preserved which has taste qualities substantially similar to fresh meat. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish The meat spoils immediately upon death without cooking it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Thanks for telling us that - I had wondered, but I honestly thought that lobsters must be boiled alive. I thought that surely tehy'd sometimes be killed first if they could be, and after all these years. What is the reason for boiling them alive, anyhow? They don't cook if they're dead? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Ray, Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR (Animal Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live-sushi_p.html?f= most-commented-grub-7d5 http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that are eventually prepared for someone's meal? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47299	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Yes, I'd like to know how they verify that the animal doesn't suffer. Is it kind of the same way they used to "verify" that infants didn't feel surgery and therefore required no anesthesia and any crying or kicking they did was purely reflexive? That made doctors, and in turn, parents feel a bit better, but it didn't help the babies at all. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> Is this true? I always thought it took a few seconds of agony - no? I would be most relieved to find out it is instant. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Deb, > > Why waste the time for the cleaver? When placed in boiling water > they die instantly. > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47300	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

I guess the question is whether the priority should be human sensitivity, profit and convenience or the welfare of the animals involved. My priority is the individual animals. Human health and survival does not require most of the suffering that other species go through before they get to the dinner table. For me, I go with the verse in the Bible that says a righteous person considers the suffering of his beasts. When a person takes possession of an animal (or commissions others to do so for their benefit), they become responsible for it's welfare and for minimizing any suffering it goes through. I'm getting very close to becoming a vegetarian, because I'm not satisfied that animals *have* to suffer the way they do in the food industry in order to keep me healthy. As for cultures that eat live food and such: being a citizen of the USA, I vote for humane laws and representatives whenever I can. I leave it to everyone else to sew their own harvests, reap their own karmas, or send around whatever they want to come around. OK, I'm off my high horse, now. He was starting to look like he needed a rest. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> What about crawfish? We boil them by the 50 pound sack (hundreds) at a time. Should I have to take a needle to the brain of each of the hundreds of crawfish before I can boil them? Crabs are also boiled by the dozens at a time... maybe even hundreds at a time for some restaurants this time of year down here (Lent). Many restaurants boil hundreds of pounds of crawfish at a time. I *guess* that with lobsters, usually being boiled one or a few at a time, this extra step could be taken but I'm sure some restaurants might even boil lobsters at a high volume if it's one of their main menu items. Cracking the shell of the head would likely allow guts/brain matter to escape into the water during the boiling process and that might mean that the water has to be changed more frequently and then the big pot brought back to a boil again, which is time consuming for a BIG pot of water. I've never worked in a kitchen for a restaurant that had lobster on the menu so I'm not sure exactly how they do things in the back but I'm guessing if they have enough volume, they keep the pot boiling or near boiling at all times during rush hours. I guess for me, that it boils down to this. Pets should be treated humanely, food should be killed and eaten regardless of how it is killed. Of course, some cultures eat live food items so all of the above would be moot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47301	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

I saw it done by a cook on PBS. They only reason they are boiled alive is that they have to be cooked immediately upon death and so it adds steps for those doing the cooking. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> > Thanks for telling us that - I had wondered, but I honestly thought that > lobsters must be boiled alive. I thought that surely tehy'd sometimes be > killed first if they could be, and after all these years. > > What is the reason for boiling them alive, anyhow? They don't cook if > they're dead? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> > > I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding > humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed > humanely > before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver > through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has a > brain > and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten > alive by humans. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47302	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

DebR said: "For me, I go with the verse in the Bible that says a righteous person considers the suffering of his beasts." Do you know the passage? I like to read the entirety of Bible chapters as individual verses can be and are used out of context all of the time. I did a Google of a couple of my favorite Bible websites and nothing exact popped up. I did find some references, such as yours above, that included "unnecessary suffering" but there are countless Bible passages that clearly show God giving man dominion for using animals for all the conveniences of life, from using animals to do the work (such as Ox in the field and Donkeys for hauling or even carrying man) to using animals for clothing, food, etc. While this article is not from my Church, it goes through much of what you may be having questions about with LOTS of specific Bible verses where you can go read the entire chapter, instead of a singular verse. http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/AnimalRightsandtheBible.htm Further searching and reading found this one which is probably on point for your reference. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12%3A10&version=KJV Proverbs 12:10 is closest to what you said. "A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." But when you read ALL of Proverbs 12, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12&version=KJV, it is more about showing examples of wickedness (or evil). If you don't like reading King James Version, at the top of the page, you can choose the Bible translation of your choice and click Update. For example, Proverbs 12:7 - 11 of the New International Version says: 7 Sinners are destroyed and taken away. But the houses of godly people stand firm. 8 A man is praised for how wise he is. But people hate those who have twisted minds. 9 Being nobody and having a servant is better than pretending to be somebody and having no food. 10 Those who do what is right take good care of their animals. But the kindest acts of those who do wrong are mean. 11 Anyone who farms his land will have plenty of food. But a person who chases dreams has no sense. 12 Those who do what is wrong want to steal from others. But those who do what is right bear good fruit because of their deep roots. 13 A sinner is trapped by his sinful talk. But a godly person escapes trouble. So, when taken in context of all of Proverbs 12 and all of the Bible, the reference you made is not really about animal rights at all, except to say that a man who doesn't take care of their animals would be considered cruel and in those cases, we have laws that cover what is animal cruelty and killing an animal for food is not cruel. Lastly, what happens if the AR people get their way, will the FVR (Fruits and Vegetable Rights) folks be next and use the groundwork of the overzealous AR folks as a way of stopping us from eating fruits and veggies? I bet the Vegans and Vegetarians would be outraged by them FVR folks much like ND (normal diet) folks are outraged by the AR folks. To put this back in the context of fish keeping. When dealing with your pet goldfish and/or other pets, using salt or other medications to try and help cure a health issue could be considered cruel by someone else who knows that using some medications or higher doses of salt on freshwater fish causes them pain but it's the lesser of two evils (pains) in that, if we did not use certain medications, the disease would overtake the fish and make it suffer even more. Same, when deciding when to euthanize a really sick pet to end it's suffering, or not, and allowing it to die naturally... which is the lesser of two evils in that case? Is using a sharp knife to sever the head and spine or a hammer to the head of a dying fish any more inhumane than freezing it or putting it down via chemicals? Many argue that using the chemical method, usually based on clove oil, is the least inhumane method but what if someone doesn't have access to clove oil? Should they then allow the fish to suffer and die naturally or should they use one of the other methods I just mentioned? Now... using the logic or illogic in the above paragraph... As far as the boiling lobsters and/or crawfish while still alive, I think it was you that stated that some chefs (or at least one chef on PBS a/k/a far left television) used a cleaver to the brain of the lobster but what if they miss the right spot (lobsters have very tiny brains) and the lobster then thrashes around seriously injured and possibly partially paralyzed but it doesn't die, wouldn't it have been better to drop it into the pot of boiling water where it would have died instantly or within a couple of seconds at most? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I guess the question is whether the priority should be human sensitivity, profit and convenience or the welfare of the animals involved. My priority is the individual animals. Human health and survival does not require most of the suffering that other species go through before they get to the dinner table. For me, I go with the verse in the Bible that says a righteous person considers the suffering of his beasts. When a person takes possession of an animal (or commissions others to do so for their benefit), they become responsible for it's welfare and for minimizing any suffering it goes through. I'm getting very close to becoming a vegetarian, because I'm not satisfied that animals *have* to suffer the way they do in the food industry in order to keep me healthy. As for cultures that eat live food and such: being a citizen of the USA, I vote for humane laws and representatives whenever I can. I leave it to everyone else to sew their own harvests, reap their own karmas, or send around whatever they want to come around. OK, I'm off my high horse, now. He was starting to look like he needed a rest. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> What about crawfish? We boil them by the 50 pound sack (hundreds) at a time. Should I have to take a needle to the brain of each of the hundreds of crawfish before I can boil them? Crabs are also boiled by the dozens at a time... maybe even hundreds at a time for some restaurants this time of year down here (Lent). Many restaurants boil hundreds of pounds of crawfish at a time. I *guess* that with lobsters, usually being boiled one or a few at a time, this extra step could be taken but I'm sure some restaurants might even boil lobsters at a high volume if it's one of their main menu items. Cracking the shell of the head would likely allow guts/brain matter to escape into the water during the boiling process and that might mean that the water has to be changed more frequently and then the big pot brought back to a boil again, which is time consuming for a BIG pot of water. I've never worked in a kitchen for a restaurant that had lobster on the menu so I'm not sure exactly how they do things in the back but I'm guessing if they have enough volume, they keep the pot boiling or near boiling at all times during rush hours. I guess for me, that it boils down to this. Pets should be treated humanely, food should be killed and eaten regardless of how it is killed. Of course, some cultures eat live food items so all of the above would be moot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47303	From: Noura	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

I don't have information about this, but logically speaking, it is probably NOT instant deatj. It may resemble throwing one of us -humans- in an active volcano's LAVA, even if "Head First" , you may die in a second, bu do you think it will be painless, would you choose that for a death? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Is this true? I always thought it took a few seconds of agony - no? I would be most relieved to find out it is instant. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Deb, > > Why waste the time for the cleaver? When placed in boiling water > they die > instantly. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish > > I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding > humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed > humanely > before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver > through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has > a brain > and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being > eaten > alive by humans. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > Ray, > > Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR > (Animal > Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably > too many > words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a > read of this > article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". > http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live- > sushi_p.html?f= > most-commented-grub-7d5 > http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 > > How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in > restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) > that are > eventually prepared for someone's meal? > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((؛> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<؛((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((؛> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<؛((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47304	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Noura and all, This question falls into the closing of my last reply (the long one a little while ago) where it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils (or pains in this case). For example, some people will jump from a tall burning building falling hundreds of feet to a certain death, rather than die by fire or committing suicide by some other means (i.e. - slitting one's own throat, shooting themselves if a gun is available, etc.). Certainly, the long fall must be agonizingly slow (but at least it's not painful based on my own skydiving experiences, as long as the chute opens) before the rather instant death. It boils (pardon the pun... lol) down to what means are available and what method one chooses to finalize the act... and I'm back to killing the lobster with this paragraph. I'm not so sure that using a cleaver to the "brain" of a lobster is any more humane than boiling it since us mere humans will likely miss the "brain" more often than hitting it. According to this site, it's a little speck, smaller than the lobster's eyeballs. http://www.osl.gc.ca/homard/en/espece-anat-int.html When we miss, I'm sure that lobster will suffer more than the couple of seconds it might suffer when being boiled. One of DebR's earlier statements, "NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans.", but a lobster is not being eaten alive... at least not in the context of this thread since we are talking about boiling them. But what about TV shows like Fear Factor and Survivor where the contestants do eat live things like the hissing cockroaches, etc.? Are they inhumane? And now that opens a new debate about why do these same animals that supposedly have rights when it comes to humans, do NOT have rights when it comes to other animals eating them alive.. for real? Dang... all of this is making me hungry for boiled crawfish again! It's that time of year where we pinch a lot of tails and suck a lot of heads down here in N'Awlins! ;-) Reference: Attendees of crawfish boils are encouraged to "suck the head" of a crawfish by separating the abdomen of the crustacean and sucking out the abdominal fat/juices. The practice is known by the common phrase, "Pinch the tail, suck the head." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajun_cuisine I think I'll stand by my earlier statement. Pets should be treated humanely. Food items should be raised and killed efficiently and cost effectively. If someone chooses to pay more for a food item that is raised less efficiently, like free range chickens, and then killed more humanely, that is their choice but their choices should not be forced down the throats of the rest of us... pardon the pun again. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I don't have information about this, but logically speaking, it is probably NOT instant deatj. It may resemble throwing one of us -humans- in an active volcano's LAVA, even if "Head First" , you may die in a second, bu do you think it will be painless, would you choose that for a death? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Is this true? I always thought it took a few seconds of agony - no? I would be most relieved to find out it is instant. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Deb, > > Why waste the time for the cleaver? When placed in boiling water they > die instantly. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish > > I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding > humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed > humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put > a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING > that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer > through being eaten alive by humans. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Ray, > > Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR > (Animal > Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too > many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a > read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". > http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live- > sushi_p.html?f= > most-commented-grub-7d5 > http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 > > How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in > restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that > are eventually prepared for someone's meal? > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47305	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Another consideration is whether and how other animals "feel" pain. If we were to plunge ourselves into the waters the best lobsters come from, we would go "YEOW! That's cold!" If we were to stay in that water long enough, we would die because the water is simply too cold for our bodies to cope with. However, we would not feel any pain. On the other hand, if we were to jump into a pot of boiling liquid, we would feel pain, at least for a second or two, before it overwhelmed us, causing a loss of consciousness, and eventually death. But hey, that is us. To transfer this to an animal is not wise. Their nervous system and physiology is different than ours. I have seen nothing that indicates that lobsters have pain receptors. The hissing or squealing sound that may be heard when placing some lobsters in boiling water is not a sound of distress, but a sound of air escaping from the carapace. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Noura and all, This question falls into the closing of my last reply (the long one a little while ago) where it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils (or pains in this case). For example, some people will jump from a tall burning building falling hundreds of feet to a certain death, rather than die by fire or committing suicide by some other means (i.e. - slitting one's own throat, shooting themselves if a gun is available, etc.). Certainly, the long fall must be agonizingly slow (but at least it's not painful based on my own skydiving experiences, as long as the chute opens) before the rather instant death. It boils (pardon the pun... lol) down to what means are available and what method one chooses to finalize the act... and I'm back to killing the lobster with this paragraph. I'm not so sure that using a cleaver to the "brain" of a lobster is any more humane than boiling it since us mere humans will likely miss the "brain" more often than hitting it. According to this site, it's a little speck, smaller than the lobster's eyeballs. http://www.osl.gc.ca/homard/en/espece-anat-int.html When we miss, I'm sure that lobster will suffer more than the couple of seconds it might suffer when being boiled. One of DebR's earlier statements, "NOTHING that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being eaten alive by humans.", but a lobster is not being eaten alive... at least not in the context of this thread since we are talking about boiling them. But what about TV shows like Fear Factor and Survivor where the contestants do eat live things like the hissing cockroaches, etc.? Are they inhumane? And now that opens a new debate about why do these same animals that supposedly have rights when it comes to humans, do NOT have rights when it comes to other animals eating them alive.. for real? Dang... all of this is making me hungry for boiled crawfish again! It's that time of year where we pinch a lot of tails and suck a lot of heads down here in N'Awlins! ;-) Reference: Attendees of crawfish boils are encouraged to "suck the head" of a crawfish by separating the abdomen of the crustacean and sucking out the abdominal fat/juices. The practice is known by the common phrase, "Pinch the tail, suck the head." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajun_cuisine I think I'll stand by my earlier statement. Pets should be treated humanely. Food items should be raised and killed efficiently and cost effectively. If someone chooses to pay more for a food item that is raised less efficiently, like free range chickens, and then killed more humanely, that is their choice but their choices should not be forced down the throats of the rest of us... pardon the pun again. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I don't have information about this, but logically speaking, it is probably NOT instant deatj. It may resemble throwing one of us -humans- in an active volcano's LAVA, even if "Head First" , you may die in a second, bu do you think it will be painless, would you choose that for a death? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Is this true? I always thought it took a few seconds of agony - no? I would be most relieved to find out it is instant. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Deb, > > Why waste the time for the cleaver? When placed in boiling water they > die instantly. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish > > I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding > humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed > humanely before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put > a cleaver through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING > that has a brain and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer > through being eaten alive by humans. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Ray, > > Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR > (Animal > Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably too > many words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a > read of this article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". > http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live- > sushi_p.html?f= > most-commented-grub-7d5 > http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 > > How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in > restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) that > are eventually prepared for someone's meal? > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47306	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare

Lenny, I have tried to stay out of this but I need to make this statement. Not directed at you but people living under the fallacy that animals have rights. Animals do NOT have rights. The U.S. bill of rights makes no mention of animals having rights. Many people anthropomorphize human qualities and traits upon animals but that does not make them human and does not bestow rights upon them. With rights come responsibilities. There are laws for animal welfare, enforcing existing laws are already difficult enough with a government filled with legislators whose job it is to create bills, pass laws, and all the other life limiting things they do. Much of the time in the U.S. people become outraged over something in the news and the cry is heard "There oughta be a law!" and some dunderheaded politician goes out and makes up this "Law". Great another law on the books that law enforcement has to not only be aware of but try and enforce with limited resources and man power. I am on a couple other animal related yahoo groups where the main topics tend to be PeTA the pet killers and the HSUS the sanitary public image of PeTA with a fat bank account from well meaning people that want to help animals. Too bad most of that money goes right back into advertising to get more money. They robbed money from your own state after Katrina. I believe your attorney general went after them. Supporting either of these groups will remove pets from our lives permanently. They have a record of progress in this area as well as quotable comments about doing just this. "One Generation and out" is one they use. Meaning, one generation after they outlaw pet breeding we will no longer have these pets in our lives. Supporting them when it comes to how to put down a mud bug is the same as supporting them when it comes to mandatory sterilization of our animals. Support the laws on the books, enforcing them is difficult enough, more laws will not solve perceived animal welfare problems. -Mike "And now that opens a new debate about why do these same animals that supposedly have rights when it comes to humans, do NOT have rights when it comes to other animals eating them alive.. for real?" Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digesomes to other animals eating them alive.. for real?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47307	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates), they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains"). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger," if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds). Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous," since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element), they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray . </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47308	From: Noura	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: CAE

Hi, Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If yes, is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock with the CAE choice until further notice! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47309	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare

I concur. And the biggest reason to stop these AR groups is that they also believe that we should not be keeping fish in tanks in our homes so anyone who has fish tanks should not support Animal Rights. If some folks think I am bad about stressing such large tanks now (and I'm no where near as *bad* as the amount of space these fish get in nature), just think how BIG of a tank you would need if the AR folks made up the rules. We'd all be felons! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal welfare Lenny, I have tried to stay out of this but I need to make this statement. Not directed at you but people living under the fallacy that animals have rights. Animals do NOT have rights. The U.S. bill of rights makes no mention of animals having rights. Many people anthropomorphize human qualities and traits upon animals but that does not make them human and does not bestow rights upon them. With rights come responsibilities. There are laws for animal welfare, enforcing existing laws are already difficult enough with a government filled with legislators whose job it is to create bills, pass laws, and all the other life limiting things they do. Much of the time in the U.S. people become outraged over something in the news and the cry is heard "There oughta be a law!" and some dunderheaded politician goes out and makes up this "Law". Great another law on the books that law enforcement has to not only be aware of but try and enforce with limited resources and man power. I am on a couple other animal related yahoo groups where the main topics tend to be PeTA the pet killers and the HSUS the sanitary public image of PeTA with a fat bank account from well meaning people that want to help animals. Too bad most of that money goes right back into advertising to get more money. They robbed money from your own state after Katrina. I believe your attorney general went after them. Supporting either of these groups will remove pets from our lives permanently. They have a record of progress in this area as well as quotable comments about doing just this. "One Generation and out" is one they use. Meaning, one generation after they outlaw pet breeding we will no longer have these pets in our lives. Supporting them when it comes to how to put down a mud bug is the same as supporting them when it comes to mandatory sterilization of our animals. Support the laws on the books, enforcing them is difficult enough, more laws will not solve perceived animal welfare problems. -Mike "And now that opens a new debate about why do these same animals that supposedly have rights when it comes to humans, do NOT have rights when it comes to other animals eating them alive.. for real?"

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47310	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted,(instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish   Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray . </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47311	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish

Actually, the question is if it is really possible to kill a lobster before cooking it. Not a convoluted philosophical question, folks. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:56 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I guess the question is whether the priority should be human sensitivity, profit and convenience or the welfare of the animals involved. My priority is the individual animals. Human health and survival does not require most of the suffering that other species go through before they get to the dinner table. For me, I go with the verse in the Bible that says a righteous person considers the suffering of his beasts. When a person takes possession of an animal (or commissions others to do so for their benefit), they become responsible for it's welfare and for minimizing any suffering it goes through. I'm getting very close to becoming a vegetarian, because I'm not satisfied that animals *have* to suffer the way they do in the food industry in order to keep me healthy. As for cultures that eat live food and such: being a citizen of the USA, I vote for humane laws and representatives whenever I can. I leave it to everyone else to sew their own harvests, reap their own karmas, or send around whatever they want to come around. OK, I'm off my high horse, now. He was starting to look like he needed a rest. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> What about crawfish? We boil them by the 50 pound sack (hundreds) at a time. Should I have to take a needle to the brain of each of the hundreds of crawfish before I can boil them? Crabs are also boiled by the dozens at a time... maybe even hundreds at a time for some restaurants this time of year down here (Lent). Many restaurants boil hundreds of pounds of crawfish at a time. I *guess* that with lobsters, usually being boiled one or a few at a time, this extra step could be taken but I'm sure some restaurants might even boil lobsters at a high volume if it's one of their main menu items. Cracking the shell of the head would likely allow guts/brain matter to escape into the water during the boiling process and that might mean that the water has to be changed more frequently and then the big pot brought back to a boil again, which is time consuming for a BIG pot of water. I've never worked in a kitchen for a restaurant that had lobster on the menu so I'm not sure exactly how they do things in the back but I'm guessing if they have enough volume, they keep the pot boiling or near boiling at all times during rush hours. I guess for me, that it boils down to this. Pets should be treated humanely, food should be killed and eaten regardless of how it is killed. Of course, some cultures eat live food items so all of the above would be moot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47312	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted,(instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray . </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47313	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Hellow Enid, I can equate myself with your experience of seeing chickens that are still quite mobile after having their heads removed. My father used to raise chickens during the War in the 1940's, and I remember well how the chickens which he used to chop the heads off of would still run around the yard for a while after this as a result of muscular reflex (no conscious thought as the brain was disconnected). I still often wondered how they apparently were able to balance or know to stand upright on the ground (kind of odd, I thought), although I don't seem to rermember them flapping their wings -- but this part is immaterial. This still has nothing to do with their feeling pain when the axe first hiot and cut into their neck -- and possibly for a few seconds afterwards as their brain quickly used up what remaining oxygen was left in those cells, until they finally died off. You can't tell me that live tissue dies immediately when dispatched that way. Even electrocution must be felt in the initial milliseconds that it first hits, and I'm not just stating that as a result of the muscle spasms observed. Sure, they're obviously brain dead after that initial few milliseconds but that doesn't negate the fact that they must feel that initial jolt until their brains die. That's like criminals on death row being executed by electrocution -- while we may assume that they usually die "instantly," we have no way of ever knowing as there's no chance for discussing the matter with the deceased afterwards. As for slitting the chickens throats afterwards, there obviously is no pain when done after electrocution (killing) of the brain. It would be futile in attempting to use a cleavor on the brain of a lobster, as it's no easy target to hit, so we can eliminate that method of killing the animal. As for eating a crayfish that did not have it's tail curled up, unless you knew that this animal was alive and kicking right before throwing it into the boiling water, as you said, there would be no way of knowing how long it was dead, so I wouldn't eat it either if there's no way of knowing how long it was dead. That wouldn't necessarily mean it was spoiled though -- if it had been killed immediately before being thrown in the boiling water, if it was alive up until that point. I can understand the difference between the flavors of frozen vs live lobsters, but again, this is a preference we have for eating the animal -- but not having anything to do with any amount of, or lack of, any cruelty deemed as being given the animal in question. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47314	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare

Have to agree Mike, Animals have absolutely NO rights -- they were never even given any "rights" to start with, never had any "rights" and never will have any "rights," as we understand them to be. They are not citizens, are not included under the Bill of Rights, they cannot vote, they are not expected to serve in the military and they do not have the obligation to serve on a jury. It all comes down to some of us wanting to treat them in a kindly manner in providing any of them under our care with conditions best suited for their well being and not treat them cruelly. There would be no point in keeping our aquarium fish if we delighted in treating them cruelly. That might be considered as being a sadist if we did. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47315	From: William M	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

When I die ,I would rather it be from an accident like an airplane crash or car crash which will be fast rather than from an illness that takes a long time like cancer and causes long term pain and suffering. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > I don't have information about this, but logically speaking, it is probably > NOT instant deatj. It may resemble throwing one of us -humans- in an active > volcano's LAVA, even if "Head First" , you may die in a second, bu do you > think it will be painless, would you choose that for a death? > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:50 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish > > > Is this true? I always thought it took a few seconds of agony - no? I > would be most relieved to find out it is instant. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 14, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Deb, > > > > Why waste the time for the cleaver? When placed in boiling water > > they die > > instantly. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish > > > > I have no problem at all with true animal rights groups demanding > > humane treatment for all species. Lobsters and crab CAN be killed > > humanely > > before boiling. It takes maybe a couple extra seconds to put a cleaver > > through the brain before tossing them in the pot. NOTHING that has > > a brain > > and central nervous system should EVER have to suffer through being > > eaten > > alive by humans. > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> > > Ray, > > > > Last week you mentioned that there was not any activity by the AR > > (Animal > > Rights) people being taken against fish. I told you, in probably > > too many > > words, that it was coming. Well, it may be finally here. Have a > > read of this > > article "ASPCA Crashes the Live-Sushi Party at Uo". > > http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2010/03/aspca_crashes_the_live- > > sushi_p.html?f= > > most-commented-grub-7d5 > > http://tinyurl.com/yh7nk78 > > > > How long may it be before there are complaints about the tanks in > > restaurants, especially those that keep live fish (and lobsters) > > that are > > eventually prepared for someone's meal? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > > option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47316	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish   Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray . </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47317	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

Hi Noura, Unless you have a real algae problem that needs to be taken care of, and that can't be handled in any other way, I would not put one in your Malawi tank. Not because of any pH incompatability, as I don't recall your water being that extreme (or is it?), but because when the CAE gets big enough to want to change its diet to fish slime -- and starts attacking your Mbuna -- they may not take kindly to this behavior and unlike other fish may retaliate. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47318	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

A chicken running around with its head cut off! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <sevenspringss@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hellow Enid, I can equate myself with your experience of seeing chickens that are still quite mobile after having their heads removed. My father used to raise chickens during the War in the 1940's, and I remember well how the chickens which he used to chop the heads off of would still run around the yard for a while after this as a result of muscular reflex (no conscious thought as the brain was disconnected). I still often wondered how they apparently were able to balance or know to stand upright on the ground (kind of odd, I thought), although I don't seem to rermember them flapping their wings -- but this part is immaterial. This still has nothing to do with their feeling pain when the axe first hiot and cut into their neck -- and possibly for a few seconds afterwards as their brain quickly used up what remaining oxygen was left in those cells, until they finally died off. You can't tell me that live tissue dies immediately when dispatched that way. Even electrocution must be felt in the initial milliseconds that it first hits, and I'm not just stating that as a result of the muscle spasms observed. Sure, they're obviously brain dead after that initial few milliseconds but that doesn't negate the fact that they must feel that initial jolt until their brains die. That's like criminals on death row being executed by electrocution -- while we may assume that they usually die "instantly," we have no way of ever knowing as there's no chance for discussing the matter with the deceased afterwards. As for slitting the chickens throats afterwards, there obviously is no pain when done after electrocution (killing) of the brain. It would be futile in attempting to use a cleavor on the brain of a lobster, as it's no easy target to hit, so we can eliminate that method of killing the animal. As for eating a crayfish that did not have it's tail curled up, unless you knew that this animal was alive and kicking right before throwing it into the boiling water, as you said, there would be no way of knowing how long it was dead, so I wouldn't eat it either if there's no way of knowing how long it was dead. That wouldn't necessarily mean it was spoiled though -- if it had been killed immediately before being thrown in the boiling water, if it was alive up until that point. I can understand the difference between the flavors of frozen vs live lobsters, but again, this is a preference we have for eating the animal -- but not having anything to do with any amount of, or lack of, any cruelty deemed as being given the animal in question. </HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47319	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

How fresh does it have to be cooked? I mean, does it really lose flavor if you kill the animal five minutes before you cook it? How do you kill them, anyway? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray . </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47320	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kindness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray . </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47321	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve/again

When reading that part of Gregg's (walkswithshelties) post, stating "I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances," I take that to mean that he just lost another one recently under these same unexplained conditions -- in addition to this one he has just lost now. I may be mistaken, but that's my impression of his statement. Anyway, I've seen a number of reports indicating that Arowanas do not tolerate very much nitrite in their environment -- even though I can't support this in my experiences with this species (and I've had a few of them in my younger years that I've grown up to at least 39", housed with Arapaimas (up to 42" "babies") of equal or larger sizes all creating good amounts of waste. This does seem quite sudden however, with the only warning sign being the refusal to eat (on the previous day?). Could just be that the nitrite level of your 5 ppm may have been more than the fish could tolerate, even though other species can handle more. As Lenny says though, without knowing more about this tank, it's hard to diagnose just what happened -- or if it was the nitrite, how it could elevate so fast. As there was no mention of what kind of Arowana this was, I will just mention that Black Arowanas (Osteoglossum ferreirai) are more sensitive than Silver Arowanas when it comes to their water requirements. At 5", any of these fish are not all that sturdy in adapting to a new environment. Much better success would be had by starting with one about (or nearly) double the size of these fish, although I realize they're not cheap at that size in today's market. I also noticed that Gregg grew one up to 12" in about 2 years (if I remember reading right). There is something wrong in this picture (not sure what -- if water conditions, food, or . . . ?) as these fish should easily get to 12" well within the year. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47322	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

According to Google, you humanely kill a lobster by slicing its head-thorax in half, beginning an inch or two behind the eyes. You have to do that anyway if you want to bake or roast or grill the lobster. Apparently it can be dangerous to boil a live lobster, and the meat is tougher than if the lobster is dead before you put it in the water. I don't think that the lobster lacks a central nervous system - particularly since it has a spinal cord. I did a year of advanced biology in college. Anything more advanced than a flatworm has a central nervous system. A lobster is a crustacean. What's it thrashing its tail in the boiling water for if it can't feel pain? http://homecooking.about.com/od/seafood/a/lobsterkill.htm http://www.cooking-lobster.com/cooking-lobster/lobster-killing.html I thought that before freezing an animal to death you had to anesthetize it with alka seltzer. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray . </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.` ..`.><((( (> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..` .<((((><. `.. , .`..<((((><` .. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47323	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" long so they're not really compatible with your situation. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae themselves. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php First paragraph from above link... "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the proteins and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire day but rather skip a meal from time to time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi, Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If yes, is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock with the CAE choice until further notice! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47324	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve

Arowanas are surface dwellers rarely visiting the water bottom. ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 14, 2010 2:50:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/Lenny, I disagree/Steve   A fish hanging at the surface gasping for air is a pretty good indication that something is wrong. Wouldn't you agree/. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@familyszabo. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 2:47 PM   Harry, An arowana hanging at the surface is not a good clue to nitrite poisoning or any other factor that may cause a fish to hang at the surface. That is their nature, to be at the surface. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:00 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg/ Lenny, I disagree Greg posted: The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. So, the Nitrite level would have to have build up to a lethal dose in 12 hours. Also there would have been sysptoms of Nitrite poisoning like the fish hanging at the surface. It was stated that the fish had a good appitite up until yesterday. What do you think?. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 1:24 PM NO2 (and I presume you mean NO2- with the minus sign indicating Nitrite instead of Nitrogen Dioxide) levels of 5ppm is likely what is killing your fish. It sounds like your tank isn't properly "cycled" (The Nitrogen Cycle) of you are having other issues like a severe mulm build up in your gravel and UGF that is decaying and putting out more ammonia>nitrite than your bio-filtration can handle. Do you have a Nitrate (NO3-) test kit? Other water parameters like GH and KH are also helpful when trying to figure things out. The more, the merrier when it comes to information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery/Greg Letha gas can build up under an under gravel filter. It can be released by a fish rooting around or digging. The gas will kill all the inhabitants in minutes and then expel from the surface. Harry --- On Sun, 3/14/10, walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> wrote: From: walkswithshelties <greggb57@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Arowana Mystery To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 9:53 AM Maybe Arowanas just don't thrive in this part of the country... I just lost another Arowana under mysterious circumstances. I just don't get it. If I'm doing something wrong, I sure can't figure it out. Maybe something in the information below will stand out to someone in the group. The Arowana was about 5 inches long and in apparent good health. Up to yesterday, it had a very good appetite, eating up to a dozen small crickets a day. It ignored small mealworms, glass shrimp and baby guppies in the 55 gallon setup. The setup has a power filter and an UG filter. I have been doing small, partial water changes twice a week and used RO water to make up for evaporation. Temperature was kept constant at 78F. Water tests show: pH: 7.2 Ammonia: 0 NO2: 5 ppm The fish died suddenly. There were no marks or external signs of disease or injury. I found it floating on the surface head up, a few hours after the last time I had dropped a large cricket in to feed it. (It ignored the cricket, which at the time I ascribed to the cricket perhaps being too large for it to eat. I had no problem keeping Arowana in MO, where I grew one from about 5 inches to about 12 inches over two year's time. I'll probably just convert the tank setup for another, "less touchy" species if I can't figure out what happened. Any insight on this loss appreciated. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47325	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

I'm pretty sure the Bible passage is in Proverbs. My browser is down due to a loading program or I'd go to the Bible Gateway website and find it. The quote, as I remember it is, "A righteous man considers the suffering of his beasts." Can't remember which version of the Bible it is. If it is in Proverbs, there usually isn't much context for them. Yes, I agree the Bible gives us the right to use animals for our benefit. It's the unnecessary suffering that we aren't given the right to inflict. Just because it's cheaper, easier, and more convenient to kill an animal in a certain way, that doesn't excuse us from sparing it unnecessary suffering. OK, I see that you went to the Bible Gateway website. I agree that the context is about the difference between the wicked and the righteous. The passage groups inhumanity to animals with the wicked. I'm not talking about whether it's ok to kill and eat animals. I just don't think we have the right to kill them in any way we see fit. (On a side note, since we're in the Old Testament, I don't think the eating of crustaceans is Kosher, anyway, hehe) I agree with most of the rest of what you said. TRUE animal rights activists (not the twits who have usurped the moniker) are concerned with humaneness or UNNECESSARY suffering and death. Some suffering and death is unavoidable even when you're placing the animal's health and long term welfare on the highest level. I stick my dog and cats with needles once a year to prevent a host of diseases that would cause much more suffering than a needle stick. My dog wears a choke collar outside to prevent her from running off and getting hit by a car. She doesn't like hitting the end of the leash, but there's no other that way I can stop her half-whippet legs from taking off after a cat that she thinks needs making friends with. That's what I mean by considering the animal's suffering: Is it necessary? Is there a more humane way? Is my or the animal's wellbeing dependent on it? If I thought eating meat was wrong, I'd have become a vegetarian a long time ago. It's the things that I'm discovering about the meat industry, as it is today, that makes me want to have no part in supporting it. In most cases there is no consideration for anything but the profit line. They're not even concerned for the people who buy and eat the meat. They only care as it relates to the fines they'd pay if caught breaking an FDA regulation. Back on a more aquatic level, yes, it would probably take training to be able to hit the brain every time on a crustacean. That's why I won't be eating any soon. The chef on TV actually started behind the head and split the head in half. It took a second or less to make the cut. Also, I'd hit a fish on the head with a hammer or behead it before I'd ever put it in a freezer to kill it. My m-i-l's vet told her that she could humanely euthanize birds or rodents by putting them in a box and placing them in the freezer. I took that advice once and used it on a pet rat that was dying of pneumonia. It was a Saturday night and the vet's office didn't open until Monday morning. I kind of liked the idea that he would just slow down and drift away. What actually happened was horrible and I found the evidence of it the next morning when I opened the freezer and found him out of the box and two shelves down, frozen to the shelf, with blood from his lungs everywhere. Maybe a fish's or bird's metabolism works differently and they might actually just go to sleep and not wake up. I just don't plan on finding out for myself. Well I think we've beaten this subject about to death and that not very humane. Oh yeah, if vegetables ever develop brains and nervous systems, I'll advocate for them, also, hehe. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> DebR said: "For me, I go with the verse in the Bible that says a righteous person considers the suffering of his beasts." Do you know the passage? I like to read the entirety of Bible chapters as individual verses can be and are used out of context all of the time. I did a Google of a couple of my favorite Bible websites and nothing exact popped up. I did find some references, such as yours above, that included "unnecessary suffering" but there are countless Bible passages that clearly show God giving man dominion for using animals for all the conveniences of life, from using animals to do the work (such as Ox in the field and Donkeys for hauling or even carrying man) to using animals for clothing, food, etc. While this article is not from my Church, it goes through much of what you may be having questions about with LOTS of specific Bible verses where you can go read the entire chapter, instead of a singular verse. http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/AnimalRightsandtheBible.htm Further searching and reading found this one which is probably on point for your reference. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12%3A10&version=KJV Proverbs 12:10 is closest to what you said. "A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." But when you read ALL of Proverbs 12, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12&version=KJV, it is more about showing examples of wickedness (or evil). If you don't like reading King James Version, at the top of the page, you can choose the Bible translation of your choice and click Update. For example, Proverbs 12:7 - 11 of the New International Version says: 7 Sinners are destroyed and taken away. But the houses of godly people stand firm. 8 A man is praised for how wise he is. But people hate those who have twisted minds. 9 Being nobody and having a servant is better than pretending to be somebody and having no food. 10 Those who do what is right take good care of their animals. But the kindest acts of those who do wrong are mean. 11 Anyone who farms his land will have plenty of food. But a person who chases dreams has no sense. 12 Those who do what is wrong want to steal from others. But those who do what is right bear good fruit because of their deep roots. 13 A sinner is trapped by his sinful talk. But a godly person escapes trouble. So, when taken in context of all of Proverbs 12 and all of the Bible, the reference you made is not really about animal rights at all, except to say that a man who doesn't take care of their animals would be considered cruel and in those cases, we have laws that cover what is animal cruelty and killing an animal for food is not cruel. Lastly, what happens if the AR people get their way, will the FVR (Fruits and Vegetable Rights) folks be next and use the groundwork of the overzealous AR folks as a way of stopping us from eating fruits and veggies? I bet the Vegans and Vegetarians would be outraged by them FVR folks much like ND (normal diet) folks are outraged by the AR folks. To put this back in the context of fish keeping. When dealing with your pet goldfish and/or other pets, using salt or other medications to try and help cure a health issue could be considered cruel by someone else who knows that using some medications or higher doses of salt on freshwater fish causes them pain but it's the lesser of two evils (pains) in that, if we did not use certain medications, the disease would overtake the fish and make it suffer even more. Same, when deciding when to euthanize a really sick pet to end it's suffering, or not, and allowing it to die naturally... which is the lesser of two evils in that case? Is using a sharp knife to sever the head and spine or a hammer to the head of a dying fish any more inhumane than freezing it or putting it down via chemicals? Many argue that using the chemical method, usually based on clove oil, is the least inhumane method but what if someone doesn't have access to clove oil? Should they then allow the fish to suffer and die naturally or should they use one of the other methods I just mentioned? Now... using the logic or illogic in the above paragraph... As far as the boiling lobsters and/or crawfish while still alive, I think it was you that stated that some chefs (or at least one chef on PBS a/k/a far left television) used a cleaver to the brain of the lobster but what if they miss the right spot (lobsters have very tiny brains) and the lobster then thrashes around seriously injured and possibly partially paralyzed but it doesn't die, wouldn't it have been better to drop it into the pot of boiling water where it would have died instantly or within a couple of seconds at most? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47326	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare

If rights are only ascribed by human legal systems, then animals have only the rights we want to give them. By this reasoning, treating other people as chattel, would be fine, as long as there's no law against it. If there IS a God or gods, then we'd better align our legal systems to produce the stewardship to which we've been entrusted. If there's NO higher power, then it seems to me that we're of no more value and have no more innate rights than any other thing in existence, and ascribing rights is just a matter of who has the power. Either way, I don't see how a society's permitting inhumane treatment of animals would be ok. At the very least there's growing evidence that cruelty to animals is a precursor to violence against other humans. There's a difference between rights and equal rights, though. I believe animals do have the right to be treated humanely by humans whenever possible, for our own welfare as well as theirs. What happens in the wild is hardly relevent, though, unless we want to irradicate all goverments and go back to living on that level, too. This would of course lead to bullies taking over and physically weaker people gathering together in groups for mutual protection and next thing you know we'd have those durned laws governing civilized behavior again. Do not adjust your computer. I now return you to your regularly scheduled aquarium group. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47327	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Ugh, could have done without the mental image of the rat... eww... Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > I'm pretty sure the Bible passage is in Proverbs. My browser is down > due to a loading program or I'd go to the Bible Gateway website and > find it. > The quote, as I remember it is, "A righteous man considers the > suffering of > his beasts." Can't remember which version of the Bible it is. If it is in > Proverbs, there usually isn't much context for them. Yes, I agree the > Bible > gives us the right to use animals for our benefit. It's the unnecessary > suffering that we aren't given the right to inflict. Just because it's > cheaper, easier, and more convenient to kill an animal in a certain way, > that doesn't excuse us from sparing it unnecessary suffering. > > OK, I see that you went to the Bible Gateway website. I agree that the > context is about the difference between the wicked and the righteous. The > passage groups inhumanity to animals with the wicked. I'm not talking > about > whether it's ok to kill and eat animals. I just don't think we have the > right to kill them in any way we see fit. (On a side note, since we're in > the Old Testament, I don't think the eating of crustaceans is Kosher, > anyway, hehe) > > I agree with most of the rest of what you said. TRUE animal rights > activists (not the twits who have usurped the moniker) are concerned with > humaneness or UNNECESSARY suffering and death. Some suffering and > death is > unavoidable even when you're placing the animal's health and long term > welfare on the highest level. I stick my dog and cats with needles once a > year to prevent a host of diseases that would cause much more > suffering than > a needle stick. My dog wears a choke collar outside to prevent her from > running off and getting hit by a car. She doesn't like hitting the end of > the leash, but there's no other that way I can stop her half-whippet legs > from taking off after a cat that she thinks needs making friends with. > > That's what I mean by considering the animal's suffering: Is it > necessary? Is there a more humane way? Is my or the animal's wellbeing > dependent on it? If I thought eating meat was wrong, I'd have become a > vegetarian a long time ago. It's the things that I'm discovering about > the > meat industry, as it is today, that makes me want to have no part in > supporting it. In most cases there is no consideration for anything > but the > profit line. They're not even concerned for the people who buy and eat > the > meat. They only care as it relates to the fines they'd pay if caught > breaking an FDA regulation. > > Back on a more aquatic level, yes, it would probably take training to > be able to hit the brain every time on a crustacean. That's why I > won't be > eating any soon. The chef on TV actually started behind the head and > split > the head in half. It took a second or less to make the cut. > > Also, I'd hit a fish on the head with a hammer or behead it before I'd > ever put it in a freezer to kill it. My m-i-l's vet told her that she > could > humanely euthanize birds or rodents by putting them in a box and placing > them in the freezer. I took that advice once and used it on a pet rat > that > was dying of pneumonia. It was a Saturday night and the vet's office > didn't > open until Monday morning. I kind of liked the idea that he would just > slow down and drift away. What actually happened was horrible and I found > the evidence of it the next morning when I opened the freezer and > found him > out of the box and two shelves down, frozen to the shelf, with blood from > his lungs everywhere. Maybe a fish's or bird's metabolism works > differently > and they might actually just go to sleep and not wake up. I just don't > plan > on finding out for myself. > > Well I think we've beaten this subject about to death and that not very > humane. Oh yeah, if vegetables ever develop brains and nervous systems, > I'll advocate for them, also, hehe. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > DebR said: "For me, I go with the verse in the Bible that says a righteous > person considers the suffering of his beasts." > > Do you know the passage? I like to read the entirety of Bible chapters as > individual verses can be and are used out of context all of the time. > > I did a Google of a couple of my favorite Bible websites and nothing exact > popped up. > > I did find some references, such as yours above, that included > "unnecessary > suffering" but there are countless Bible passages that clearly show God > giving man dominion for using animals for all the conveniences of > life, from > using animals to do the work (such as Ox in the field and Donkeys for > hauling or even carrying man) to using animals for clothing, food, etc. > > While this article is not from my Church, it goes through much of what you > may be having questions about with LOTS of specific Bible verses where you > can go read the entire chapter, instead of a singular verse. > > http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/AnimalRightsandtheBible.htm > <http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/AnimalRightsandtheBible.htm> > > Further searching and reading found this one which is probably on > point for > your reference. > > http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12%3A10&version=KJV > <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12%3A10&version=KJV> > > Proverbs 12:10 is closest to what you said. > > "A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender > mercies of > the wicked are cruel." > > But when you read ALL of Proverbs 12, > http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12&version=KJV, > <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12&version=KJV,> > it is > more about showing examples of wickedness (or evil). > > If you don't like reading King James Version, at the top of the page, you > can choose the Bible translation of your choice and click Update. For > example, Proverbs 12:7 - 11 of the New International Version says: > > 7 Sinners are destroyed and taken away. > But the houses of godly people stand firm. > 8 A man is praised for how wise he is. > But people hate those who have twisted minds. > 9 Being nobody and having a servant > is better than pretending to be somebody and having no food. > 10 Those who do what is right take good care of their animals. > But the kindest acts of those who do wrong are mean. > 11 Anyone who farms his land will have plenty of food. > But a person who chases dreams has no sense. > 12 Those who do what is wrong want to steal from others. > But those who do what is right bear good fruit because of their deep > roots. > 13 A sinner is trapped by his sinful talk. > But a godly person escapes trouble. > > So, when taken in context of all of Proverbs 12 and all of the Bible, the > reference you made is not really about animal rights at all, except to say > that a man who doesn't take care of their animals would be considered > cruel > and in those cases, we have laws that cover what is animal cruelty and > killing an animal for food is not cruel. > > Lastly, what happens if the AR people get their way, will the FVR (Fruits > and Vegetable Rights) folks be next and use the groundwork of the > overzealous AR folks as a way of stopping us from eating fruits and > veggies? > I bet the Vegans and Vegetarians would be outraged by them FVR folks much > like ND (normal diet) folks are outraged by the AR folks. > > To put this back in the context of fish keeping. When dealing with > your pet > goldfish and/or other pets, using salt or other medications to try and > help > cure a health issue could be considered cruel by someone else who > knows that > using some medications or higher doses of salt on freshwater fish causes > them pain but it's the lesser of two evils (pains) in that, if we did not > use certain medications, the disease would overtake the fish and make it > suffer even more. Same, when deciding when to euthanize a really sick pet > to end it's suffering, or not, and allowing it to die naturally... > which is > the lesser of two evils in that case? Is using a sharp knife to sever the > head and spine or a hammer to the head of a dying fish any more inhumane > than freezing it or putting it down via chemicals? Many argue that using > the chemical method, usually based on clove oil, is the least inhumane > method but what if someone doesn't have access to clove oil? Should they > then allow the fish to suffer and die naturally or should they use one of > the other methods I just mentioned? > > Now... using the logic or illogic in the above paragraph... As far as the > boiling lobsters and/or crawfish while still alive, I think it was you > that > stated that some chefs (or at least one chef on PBS a/k/a far left > television) used a cleaver to the brain of the lobster but what if > they miss > the right spot (lobsters have very tiny brains) and the lobster then > thrashes around seriously injured and possibly partially paralyzed but it > doesn't die, wouldn't it have been better to drop it into the pot of > boiling > water where it would have died instantly or within a couple of seconds at > most? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47328	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish

Oh, Jeez, that's it. I'm done with this discussion. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:27 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I'm pretty sure the Bible passage is in Proverbs. My browser is down due to a loading program or I'd go to the Bible Gateway website and find it. The quote, as I remember it is, "A righteous man considers the suffering of his beasts." Can't remember which version of the Bible it is. If it is in Proverbs, there usually isn't much context for them. Yes, I agree the Bible gives us the right to use animals for our benefit. It's the unnecessary suffering that we aren't given the right to inflict. Just because it's cheaper, easier, and more convenient to kill an animal in a certain way, that doesn't excuse us from sparing it unnecessary suffering. OK, I see that you went to the Bible Gateway website. I agree that the context is about the difference between the wicked and the righteous. The passage groups inhumanity to animals with the wicked. I'm not talking about whether it's ok to kill and eat animals. I just don't think we have the right to kill them in any way we see fit. (On a side note, since we're in the Old Testament, I don't think the eating of crustaceans is Kosher, anyway, hehe) I agree with most of the rest of what you said. TRUE animal rights activists (not the twits who have usurped the moniker) are concerned with humaneness or UNNECESSARY suffering and death. Some suffering and death is unavoidable even when you're placing the animal's health and long term welfare on the highest level. I stick my dog and cats with needles once a year to prevent a host of diseases that would cause much more suffering than a needle stick. My dog wears a choke collar outside to prevent her from running off and getting hit by a car. She doesn't like hitting the end of the leash, but there's no other that way I can stop her half-whippet legs from taking off after a cat that she thinks needs making friends with. That's what I mean by considering the animal's suffering: Is it necessary? Is there a more humane way? Is my or the animal's wellbeing dependent on it? If I thought eating meat was wrong, I'd have become a vegetarian a long time ago. It's the things that I'm discovering about the meat industry, as it is today, that makes me want to have no part in supporting it. In most cases there is no consideration for anything but the profit line. They're not even concerned for the people who buy and eat the meat. They only care as it relates to the fines they'd pay if caught breaking an FDA regulation. Back on a more aquatic level, yes, it would probably take training to be able to hit the brain every time on a crustacean. That's why I won't be eating any soon. The chef on TV actually started behind the head and split the head in half. It took a second or less to make the cut. Also, I'd hit a fish on the head with a hammer or behead it before I'd ever put it in a freezer to kill it. My m-i-l's vet told her that she could humanely euthanize birds or rodents by putting them in a box and placing them in the freezer. I took that advice once and used it on a pet rat that was dying of pneumonia. It was a Saturday night and the vet's office didn't open until Monday morning. I kind of liked the idea that he would just slow down and drift away. What actually happened was horrible and I found the evidence of it the next morning when I opened the freezer and found him out of the box and two shelves down, frozen to the shelf, with blood from his lungs everywhere. Maybe a fish's or bird's metabolism works differently and they might actually just go to sleep and not wake up. I just don't plan on finding out for myself. Well I think we've beaten this subject about to death and that not very humane. Oh yeah, if vegetables ever develop brains and nervous systems, I'll advocate for them, also, hehe. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> DebR said: "For me, I go with the verse in the Bible that says a righteous person considers the suffering of his beasts." Do you know the passage? I like to read the entirety of Bible chapters as individual verses can be and are used out of context all of the time. I did a Google of a couple of my favorite Bible websites and nothing exact popped up. I did find some references, such as yours above, that included "unnecessary suffering" but there are countless Bible passages that clearly show God giving man dominion for using animals for all the conveniences of life, from using animals to do the work (such as Ox in the field and Donkeys for hauling or even carrying man) to using animals for clothing, food, etc. While this article is not from my Church, it goes through much of what you may be having questions about with LOTS of specific Bible verses where you can go read the entire chapter, instead of a singular verse. http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/AnimalRightsandtheBible.htm Further searching and reading found this one which is probably on point for your reference. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12%3A10&version=KJV Proverbs 12:10 is closest to what you said. "A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." But when you read ALL of Proverbs 12, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12&version=KJV, it is more about showing examples of wickedness (or evil). If you don't like reading King James Version, at the top of the page, you can choose the Bible translation of your choice and click Update. For example, Proverbs 12:7 - 11 of the New International Version says: 7 Sinners are destroyed and taken away. But the houses of godly people stand firm. 8 A man is praised for how wise he is. But people hate those who have twisted minds. 9 Being nobody and having a servant is better than pretending to be somebody and having no food. 10 Those who do what is right take good care of their animals. But the kindest acts of those who do wrong are mean. 11 Anyone who farms his land will have plenty of food. But a person who chases dreams has no sense. 12 Those who do what is wrong want to steal from others. But those who do what is right bear good fruit because of their deep roots. 13 A sinner is trapped by his sinful talk. But a godly person escapes trouble. So, when taken in context of all of Proverbs 12 and all of the Bible, the reference you made is not really about animal rights at all, except to say that a man who doesn't take care of their animals would be considered cruel and in those cases, we have laws that cover what is animal cruelty and killing an animal for food is not cruel. Lastly, what happens if the AR people get their way, will the FVR (Fruits and Vegetable Rights) folks be next and use the groundwork of the overzealous AR folks as a way of stopping us from eating fruits and veggies? I bet the Vegans and Vegetarians would be outraged by them FVR folks much like ND (normal diet) folks are outraged by the AR folks. To put this back in the context of fish keeping. When dealing with your pet goldfish and/or other pets, using salt or other medications to try and help cure a health issue could be considered cruel by someone else who knows that using some medications or higher doses of salt on freshwater fish causes them pain but it's the lesser of two evils (pains) in that, if we did not use certain medications, the disease would overtake the fish and make it suffer even more. Same, when deciding when to euthanize a really sick pet to end it's suffering, or not, and allowing it to die naturally... which is the lesser of two evils in that case? Is using a sharp knife to sever the head and spine or a hammer to the head of a dying fish any more inhumane than freezing it or putting it down via chemicals? Many argue that using the chemical method, usually based on clove oil, is the least inhumane method but what if someone doesn't have access to clove oil? Should they then allow the fish to suffer and die naturally or should they use one of the other methods I just mentioned? Now... using the logic or illogic in the above paragraph... As far as the boiling lobsters and/or crawfish while still alive, I think it was you that stated that some chefs (or at least one chef on PBS a/k/a far left television) used a cleaver to the brain of the lobster but what if they miss the right spot (lobsters have very tiny brains) and the lobster then thrashes around seriously injured and possibly partially paralyzed but it doesn't die, wouldn't it have been better to drop it into the pot of boiling water where it would have died instantly or within a couple of seconds at most? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47329	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Wow! this is great! I hope it catches on! Thanks for posting that! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kindness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47330	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare

We have animal welfare and property laws in effect for animals. No need to confuse things by trying to create rights for them. Where would it stop. Ants? Single cell creatures? Microbes? Is there going to be a minimum level of cellular activity? Owners have rights. My animals are my property, not my companions. Wild creatures are protected by laws as well. I am not legally allowed to go catch every fish in a lake, river, or stream. Nor hunt an animal to non sustainable levels. The skunks and raccoons under my house are protected as are my neighbors cats. "Either way, I don't see how a society's permitting inhumane treatment of animals would be ok. " It is not OK. That is why we have animal welfare laws, and property owners laws. Giving them rights is not like waving a magic wand which will cure all of the wrongs. Enforcement of laws we already have is the answer. Even with these laws there are already too much abuse of property owners by people who would take animals away from us. The violence towards animals=violence toward people, serial killers, has NOT been proven. One only need to go back to the third reich to see this easily disproven. Animals given rights and protections above humans. Allocating rights to animals will only further the goals of people who are determined to take them away from us. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 1:39 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal welfare If rights are only ascribed by human legal systems, then animals have only the rights we want to give them. By this reasoning, treating other people as chattel, would be fine, as long as there's no law against it. If there IS a God or gods, then we'd better align our legal systems to produce the stewardship to which we've been entrusted. If there's NO higher power, then it seems to me that we're of no more value and have no more innate rights than any other thing in existence, and ascribing rights is just a matter of who has the power. Either way, I don't see how a society's permitting inhumane treatment of animals would be ok. At the very least there's growing evidence that cruelty to animals is a precursor to violence against other humans. There's a difference between rights and equal rights, though. I believe animals do have the right to be treated humanely by humans whenever possible, for our own welfare as well as theirs. What happens in the wild is hardly relevent, though, unless we want to irradicate all goverments and go back to living on that level, too. This would of course lead to bullies taking over and physically weaker people gathering together in groups for mutual protection and next thing you know we'd have those durned laws governing civilized behavior again. Do not adjust your computer. I now return you to your regularly scheduled aquarium group. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47331	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal & Fish

Fish farms have been stunning fish for decades. -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 1:45 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Wow! this is great! I hope it catches on! Thanks for posting that! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kindness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

DebR, OMG.. how inhumane, cruel and sadistic of you to use a choke collar. You probably have the kind with the inverted spikes that dig into it's neck too.. don't you... you wicked, evil human!!! You should get a nice faux leather, faux fur lined 7-point harness system for your dog so that when it takes off after it's arch-enemy, the cat, you can hold it back and the jolt is dispersed over the entire harness instead of clamping down and choking the life out of it and preventing it from breathing. Yes... I'm being sarcastic but if you join sides with the AR folks, that's what they'll expect of you. After all, you just said it yourself. DebR said, "That's what I mean by considering the animal's suffering: Is it necessary? Is there a more humane way? ..." and yes, the faux leather, faux fur lined, 7-point harness system is more humane than a choke collar. Not nearly as cost effective or efficient at doing what you need done... stopping the dog from dragging you down the street... but it's not about you.. it's about the rights of the animal... NOT!!! You said it yourself... "unnecessary suffering"... not *all* suffering. All that said, it's perfectly fine to boil lobster, crawfish, crabs, shrimp, veggies and anything else you want to eat. God said it, I believe it, that settles it! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Ugh, could have done without the mental image of the rat... eww... Amber Menagerie_Manager wrote: > > I'm pretty sure the Bible passage is in Proverbs. My browser is down > due to a loading program or I'd go to the Bible Gateway website and > find it. > The quote, as I remember it is, "A righteous man considers the > suffering of his beasts." Can't remember which version of the Bible it > is. If it is in Proverbs, there usually isn't much context for them. > Yes, I agree the Bible gives us the right to use animals for our > benefit. It's the unnecessary suffering that we aren't given the right > to inflict. Just because it's cheaper, easier, and more convenient to > kill an animal in a certain way, that doesn't excuse us from sparing > it unnecessary suffering. > > OK, I see that you went to the Bible Gateway website. I agree that the > context is about the difference between the wicked and the righteous. > The passage groups inhumanity to animals with the wicked. I'm not > talking about whether it's ok to kill and eat animals. I just don't > think we have the right to kill them in any way we see fit. (On a side > note, since we're in the Old Testament, I don't think the eating of > crustaceans is Kosher, anyway, hehe) > > I agree with most of the rest of what you said. TRUE animal rights > activists (not the twits who have usurped the moniker) are concerned > with humaneness or UNNECESSARY suffering and death. Some suffering and > death is unavoidable even when you're placing the animal's health and > long term welfare on the highest level. I stick my dog and cats with > needles once a year to prevent a host of diseases that would cause > much more suffering than a needle stick. My dog wears a choke collar > outside to prevent her from running off and getting hit by a car. She > doesn't like hitting the end of the leash, but there's no other that > way I can stop her half-whippet legs from taking off after a cat that > she thinks needs making friends with. > > That's what I mean by considering the animal's suffering: Is it > necessary? Is there a more humane way? Is my or the animal's wellbeing > dependent on it? If I thought eating meat was wrong, I'd have become a > vegetarian a long time ago. It's the things that I'm discovering about > the meat industry, as it is today, that makes me want to have no part > in supporting it. In most cases there is no consideration for anything > but the profit line. They're not even concerned for the people who buy > and eat the meat. They only care as it relates to the fines they'd pay > if caught breaking an FDA regulation. > > Back on a more aquatic level, yes, it would probably take training to > be able to hit the brain every time on a crustacean. That's why I > won't be eating any soon. The chef on TV actually started behind the > head and split the head in half. It took a second or less to make the > cut. > > Also, I'd hit a fish on the head with a hammer or behead it before I'd > ever put it in a freezer to kill it. My m-i-l's vet told her that she > could humanely euthanize birds or rodents by putting them in a box and > placing them in the freezer. I took that advice once and used it on a > pet rat that was dying of pneumonia. It was a Saturday night and the > vet's office didn't open until Monday morning. I kind of liked the > idea that he would just slow down and drift away. What actually > happened was horrible and I found the evidence of it the next morning > when I opened the freezer and found him out of the box and two shelves > down, frozen to the shelf, with blood from his lungs everywhere. Maybe > a fish's or bird's metabolism works differently and they might > actually just go to sleep and not wake up. I just don't plan on > finding out for myself. > > Well I think we've beaten this subject about to death and that not > very humane. Oh yeah, if vegetables ever develop brains and nervous > systems, I'll advocate for them, also, hehe. > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > > DebR said: "For me, I go with the verse in the Bible that says a > righteous person considers the suffering of his beasts." > > Do you know the passage? I like to read the entirety of Bible chapters > as individual verses can be and are used out of context all of the time. > > I did a Google of a couple of my favorite Bible websites and nothing > exact popped up. > > I did find some references, such as yours above, that included > "unnecessary suffering" but there are countless Bible passages that > clearly show God giving man dominion for using animals for all the > conveniences of life, from using animals to do the work (such as Ox in > the field and Donkeys for hauling or even carrying man) to using > animals for clothing, food, etc. > > While this article is not from my Church, it goes through much of what > you may be having questions about with LOTS of specific Bible verses > where you can go read the entire chapter, instead of a singular verse. > > http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/AnimalRightsandtheBible.ht > m > <http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/AnimalRightsandtheBible.h > tm> > > Further searching and reading found this one which is probably on > point for your reference. > > http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12%3A10&version=K > JV > <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12%3A10&version= > KJV> > > Proverbs 12:10 is closest to what you said. > > "A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender > mercies of the wicked are cruel." > > But when you read ALL of Proverbs 12, > http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12&version=KJV, > <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+12&version=KJV,> > it is > more about showing examples of wickedness (or evil). > > If you don't like reading King James Version, at the top of the page, > you can choose the Bible translation of your choice and click Update. > For example, Proverbs 12:7 - 11 of the New International Version says: > > 7 Sinners are destroyed and taken away. > But the houses of godly people stand firm. > 8 A man is praised for how wise he is. > But people hate those who have twisted minds. > 9 Being nobody and having a servant > is better than pretending to be somebody and having no food. > 10 Those who do what is right take good care of their animals. > But the kindest acts of those who do wrong are mean. > 11 Anyone who farms his land will have plenty of food. > But a person who chases dreams has no sense. > 12 Those who do what is wrong want to steal from others. > But those who do what is right bear good fruit because of their deep > roots. > 13 A sinner is trapped by his sinful talk. > But a godly person escapes trouble. > > So, when taken in context of all of Proverbs 12 and all of the Bible, > the reference you made is not really about animal rights at all, > except to say that a man who doesn't take care of their animals would > be considered cruel and in those cases, we have laws that cover what > is animal cruelty and killing an animal for food is not cruel. > > Lastly, what happens if the AR people get their way, will the FVR > (Fruits and Vegetable Rights) folks be next and use the groundwork of > the overzealous AR folks as a way of stopping us from eating fruits > and veggies? > I bet the Vegans and Vegetarians would be outraged by them FVR folks > much like ND (normal diet) folks are outraged by the AR folks. > > To put this back in the context of fish keeping. When dealing with > your pet goldfish and/or other pets, using salt or other medications > to try and help cure a health issue could be considered cruel by > someone else who knows that using some medications or higher doses of > salt on freshwater fish causes them pain but it's the lesser of two > evils (pains) in that, if we did not use certain medications, the > disease would overtake the fish and make it suffer even more. Same, > when deciding when to euthanize a really sick pet to end it's > suffering, or not, and allowing it to die naturally... > which is > the lesser of two evils in that case? Is using a sharp knife to sever > the head and spine or a hammer to the head of a dying fish any more > inhumane than freezing it or putting it down via chemicals? Many argue > that using the chemical method, usually based on clove oil, is the > least inhumane method but what if someone doesn't have access to clove > oil? Should they then allow the fish to suffer and die naturally or > should they use one of the other methods I just mentioned? > > Now... using the logic or illogic in the above paragraph... As far as > the boiling lobsters and/or crawfish while still alive, I think it was > you that stated that some chefs (or at least one chef on PBS a/k/a far > left > television) used a cleaver to the brain of the lobster but what if > they miss the right spot (lobsters have very tiny brains) and the > lobster then thrashes around seriously injured and possibly partially > paralyzed but it doesn't die, wouldn't it have been better to drop it > into the pot of boiling water where it would have died instantly or > within a couple of seconds at most? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47333	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

That article is BUNK!!! "While crabs remain silent when boiled alive, they shed their claws and legs as a defence mechanism and, because of this, are often put in fresh water and drowned for eight hours as an alternative." That is pure BS. I've boiled hundreds of crabs over the years and all of the claws and legs are still on them when they come out the crab boil and I've never sunk them in fresh water for 8 hours to drown them first. If they'll outrageously lie about crabs, they cannot be believed about anything else in the article. I seriously doubt that a lobster lives for three minutes in a boiling pot of water. Maybe a few seconds but not minutes. And I know crabs do not live for four to five minutes. They die in a few seconds also. That article is all about trying to sell that stupid machine.. and even the machine says it takes 5 to 7 seconds to kill the lobster. Dropping them head first into boiling water is quicker. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 12:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kind ness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47334	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal welfare

Before so many crooked politicians corrupted our legal system, we had the Declaration Of Independence, which said, in part, "that all men... are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness..." Fish! I'm pretty sure that eating freshly boiled lobster, crawfish, crabs and shrimp falls under that "Pursuit of Happiness" part... as long as there's an ice cold beer served with them. ;-) Fish! (wait.. the above paragraph was about aquaticlife.. lol) As far as treating other people as chattel, that happens all throughout the Bible, all throughout the world and even in the USA in our early years before and after we became our own country. Even Proverbs 12, which we referenced earlier, mentions in verse 9, "Better to be a nobody and yet have a servant than pretend to be somebody and have no food." Fish! Now, when the USA was formed, our forefathers wrote in the Declaration of Independence that "All men are created equal" and this was the law until a certain political party, and it wasn't the evil Republicans, it was the Northern States that, in Article 1 of the Constitution, made it so that "slaves" were only to be considered only 60% so that the Southern States would have a lower census count for political representation in Congress. "Constitutional Structure and Slavery - The word slavery did not appear in the Constitution until the Thirteenth Amendment abolished human bondage in 1865. Nevertheless, the Constitution explicitly protected slavery in five clauses. The three-fifths clause (Art. I, sec. 2) gave slave states representation in Congress based on 60 percent of their slaves;..." This was but one of the things that led to the Civil War and ultimately, President Abe Lincoln, a Republican, being elected and "As president he is best remembered for leading the Union through the Civil War and freeing Confederate slaves with the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation;" "Abraham Lincoln - Political Party: Whig (1832-1854), Republican (1854-1864), National Union (1864-1865)" You'll rarely find that being taught in schools today as the Democrats have corrupted the system to make African Americans think it's the evil Republicans that supported slavery. Fish! As far as animal rights, NO, animals do not have any rights but humans do have a right to own animals and with that right, comes certain responsibilities as to taking care of their animals. Fish! Now.. as far as eradicating all governments... I'm all for that.. at least over-bearing and corrupt governments... starting with Washington, D.C. and then stripping away the powers they have stolen in the past 200+ years until they are back to a small federal government as intended by our Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Heck... after we throw the bums out of office, we can throw them in the Boston Harbor and feed them to the... Fish! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal welfare If rights are only ascribed by human legal systems, then animals have only the rights we want to give them. By this reasoning, treating other people as chattel, would be fine, as long as there's no law against it. If there IS a God or gods, then we'd better align our legal systems to produce the stewardship to which we've been entrusted. If there's NO higher power, then it seems to me that we're of no more value and have no more innate rights than any other thing in existence, and ascribing rights is just a matter of who has the power. Either way, I don't see how a society's permitting inhumane treatment of animals would be ok. At the very least there's growing evidence that cruelty to animals is a precursor to violence against other humans. There's a difference between rights and equal rights, though. I believe animals do have the right to be treated humanely by humans whenever possible, for our own welfare as well as theirs. What happens in the wild is hardly relevent, though, unless we want to irradicate all goverments and go back to living on that level, too. This would of course lead to bullies taking over and physically weaker people gathering together in groups for mutual protection and next thing you know we'd have those durned laws governing civilized behavior again. Do not adjust your computer. I now return you to your regularly scheduled aquarium group. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47335	From: Capt. Bruce Nelson	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: animals and death

Does anyone here Really think it matters to an animal how it is killed? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47336	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal & Fish

Do you meant stunting? ;-) Because we know they've been doing that too! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal & Fish Fish farms have been stunning fish for decades. -----Original Message----- From: Menagerie_Manager <menagerie_manager@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 1:45 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Wow! this is great! I hope it catches on! Thanks for posting that! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kind ness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47337	From: Noura	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

Ray and Lenny, Hi! In a reply to Ray,I don't have a real Algae problem, as my nitrates are often 10-25 with sometimes 50 (when let the week pass without my 2 PWCs). But I like the way my CAE cleans the surfaces of the 20G, especially where my magnet scrubber can't reach. I'm wondering if the Mbunas will actually "clean" the rocks, and not only eat the algae thread leaving their "source" untouched in an unpleasant scene. The "aggression" issue was what I was actually inquiring about, I usually don't keep my Golden CAEs until they're longer than 3-3.5", which makes a great deal for both me and the LFS, assuming that the CAE will be sold to be re-homed in an appropriate tank's size. So, keeping in mind that the CAE won't stay here until it's longer than 3.5", do you think that a 2-3" CAE will show aggression towards other fish "Malawi Cichlids here"? I was actually expecting a reply that the Mbunas are the ones who will likely start the aggression, not just sit and wait until they are attacked themselves. Finally, I was looking at the CAE profiles, and found out that my tanks parameters are not the "ideal" ones for this species, but they are not that far away from it (maybe?). The 20G parameters during last year ranged in these numbers, as my "fisheis paper notebook" shows: pH 8-8.2-8.4 (often 8.2) GH 10-15 (often the color is closer to10) KH 12 - 16 (often closer to16) There are not parameters for the 28G new cichlid tank, as it's not cycled yet. But I don't think the parameters will be different, as these numbers are very close to my tap water's parameters. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" long so they're not really compatible with your situation. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae themselves. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php First paragraph from above link... "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the proteins and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire day but rather skip a meal from time to time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi, Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If yes, is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock with the CAE choice until further notice! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47338	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

I agree with Ray. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi Noura, Unless you have a real algae problem that needs to be taken care of, and that can't be handled in any other way, I would not put one in your Malawi tank. Not because of any pH incompatability, as I don't recall your water being that extreme (or is it?), but because when the CAE gets big enough to want to change its diet to fish slime -- and starts attacking your Mbuna -- they may not take kindly to this behavior and unlike other fish may retaliate. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47339	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: animals and death

As it is being killed, YES, absolutely. DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Capt. Bruce Nelson" <capt_bruce1@...> Does anyone here Really think it matters to an animal how it is killed?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47340	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

A lobster that is dead or near dead prior to being cooked ends up with a mushy tail and claw meat. The meat of a lobster spoils VERY fast compared to other animals. They are killed by the thermal shock. Lobsters are interesting creatures. They can live for days if kept cool/cold and wet, with no need to be submerged in water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish How fresh does it have to be cooked? I mean, does it really lose flavor if you kill the animal five minutes before you cook it? How do you kill them, anyway? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47341	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

The supposed shrieking, or screaming, as some have said, has nothing to do with the death. It is merely air that has been captured between the shell of the lobster and its body. One can pull the lobster from the pot immediately after submerging it and it is either stunned or already dead. The type of thought behind the gizmo in the article you cite is nothing more than people thinking that all animals feel pain the way we do and attribute their human characteristics onto animals. Research tends to shoe that lobsters do not feel pain. The nervous system they have is rather rudimentary, and the brain is nothing more than a ganglia of nerves, and not developed like in mammals and other animals further along the evolutionary trail. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kindness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47342	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the grocery store that does not take care of heavy metals. Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts and a couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly affected, when the lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his mouth at the surface (looking up), gasping for air. There is plenty of circulation and also a bubble wand in the tank. Nitrate = 10 ppm Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 ppm at most I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's on the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was running my fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the intakes of the canister filters to help increase oxygen if that may be low somehow... but there should be plenty of water movement. If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's been over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad there's not a test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is there? lol If I've been using another water conditioner for removing just chlorine and the LFS finally gets more of the right water conditioner in stock, should I dose the tank for the missed PWC's or do something different? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47343	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

iI would increase the aeration as much as reasonably possible. I know Amquel Plus depletes or utilizes the oxygen which limits what is available to the fish, if this brand does something similar you may want to increase that surface agitation. Or... The emergency brand may not take care of Chloramines and you may have them in your water. In which case you need to deal with the Chloramines ASAP. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:26 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the grocery store that does not take care of heavy metals. Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts and a couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly affected, when the lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his mouth at the surface (looking up), gasping for air. There is plenty of circulation and also a bubble wand in the tank. Nitrate = 10 ppm Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 ppm at most I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's on the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was running my fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the intakes of the canister filters to help increase oxygen if that may be low somehow... but there should be plenty of water movement. If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's been over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad there's not a test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is there? lol If I've been using another water conditioner for removing just chlorine and the LFS finally gets more of the right water conditioner in stock, should I dose the tank for the missed PWC's or do something different? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47344	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

My water company only uses chlorine right now, they have a plan to add ammonia to the water supply but that's in the future, they haven't changed that yet. I increased the water flow as much as possible and lowered the water level so that the canister filters are pushing water at the surface. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > iI would increase the aeration as much as reasonably possible. > > I know Amquel Plus depletes or utilizes the oxygen which limits what is > available to the fish, if this brand does something similar you may > want to increase that surface agitation. > > Or... > > The emergency brand may not take care of Chloramines and you may have > them in your water. In which case you need to deal with the Chloramines > ASAP. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:26 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both > chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the grocery > store that does not take care of heavy metals. > Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be > "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts and a > couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly affected, when the > lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his mouth at the surface > (looking up), gasping for air. There is plenty of circulation and also > a > bubble wand in the tank. > Nitrate = 10 ppm > Nitrite = 0 > Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 ppm at > most > > I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. > Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's on > the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was running my > fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the intakes of the > canister filters to help increase oxygen if that may be low somehow... > but there should be plenty of water movement. > If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's been > over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad there's not a > test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is there? lol > If I've been using another water conditioner for removing just chlorine > and the LFS finally gets more of the right water conditioner in stock, > should I dose the tank for the missed PWC's or do something different? > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47345	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Dora, This is how to properly grill a lobster: Grilling Par-boil lobsters in boiling water for 5 minutes. Remove the lobsters and immediately put into a large pot/bowl of cold water to stop the cooking. (You can drain the lobsters and store in the refrigerator if you do not plan to grill them right away.) Using a sharp knife, slice the lobster down the middle (easiest to cut legs side up). Remove the black vein from the tail, the greenish tomalley from the body and the sand sac located near the head. Baste the lobster meat with some oil or melted butter. Grill the lobsters flesh side down for 5 to 6 minutes, or until the flesh is just beginning to look opaque. Turn the lobsters over, baste with more oil and continue to cook for 4 to 5 minutes longer, or until the lobsters are cooked through. From http://www.lobster.um.maine.edu/index.php?page=22 As you can see, the lobster is already dead, and partially cooked (takes about 15-20 minutes for a chicken lobster, a bit longer for larger lobsters) prior to the splitting of the body. I did not know this, as I have never grilled a lobster. I prefer to boil them in a pot, after steaming the clams, with salt, onion, carrot, celery added, along with a bit of parsley for some flavor. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish According to Google, you humanely kill a lobster by slicing its head-thorax in half, beginning an inch or two behind the eyes. You have to do that anyway if you want to bake or roast or grill the lobster. Apparently it can be dangerous to boil a live lobster, and the meat is tougher than if the lobster is dead before you put it in the water. I don't think that the lobster lacks a central nervous system - particularly since it has a spinal cord. I did a year of advanced biology in college. Anything more advanced than a flatworm has a central nervous system. A lobster is a crustacean. What's it thrashing its tail in the boiling water for if it can't feel pain? http://homecooking.about.com/od/seafood/a/lobsterkill.htm http://www.cooking-lobster.com/cooking-lobster/lobster-killing.html I thought that before freezing an animal to death you had to anesthetize it with alka seltzer. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47346	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Ray, I've been doing some surfing to try to determine what science believes in answer to whether a lobster can feel pain. It seems that the unequivocal answer to that question is: "flip a coin, heads no pain, tails pain". However, it is agreed that they have a very simple nervous system, and no real brain. Those who believe that they do not feel pain use this as their main argument along with the fact that no pain receptors, as we currently understand them, have been found. Those who hold that they do feel pain are all over the map as to why they do. Some say that there are opiate receptors as part of the nervous system, others say they react to a painful stimulus, and so on. However, it does seem that most of those feeling pain people are looking at pain in a human sense or the reaction to a stimulus effect. It would be like if you hit your thumb with a hammer, you have a specific response, hitting the lobster's "toe" with the hammer would elicit a response, but is it pain, or simply a response to the stimulus that tells the lobster to move and not pain at all? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates), they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains"). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger," if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds). Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous," since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element), they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Is it time for this yet? I know \\Steve// is ready for this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWTLx1Ndns Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish The supposed shrieking, or screaming, as some have said, has nothing to do with the death. It is merely air that has been captured between the shell of the lobster and its body. One can pull the lobster from the pot immediately after submerging it and it is either stunned or already dead. The type of thought behind the gizmo in the article you cite is nothing more than people thinking that all animals feel pain the way we do and attribute their human characteristics onto animals. Research tends to shoe that lobsters do not feel pain. The nervous system they have is rather rudimentary, and the brain is nothing more than a ganglia of nerves, and not developed like in mammals and other animals further along the evolutionary trail. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kind ness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47348	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

I think heavy metals would affect them more in the long term, not what you are seeing. To me, this sounds more like a chlorine in the water issue, to where the stuff didn't work at all or wasn't as effective as it should be. Could be why you're getting the ammonia as well if the minute level of chlorine is starting to kill your nitrifying bacteria. How much of a PWC did you do? If I recall correctly, your pH is down close to 7.0 so the ammonia shouldn't be affecting them like it would if you had a much higher pH, over 8.0. Get some real dechlor ASAP and increase the agitation a LOT to help outgas the chlorine. Also, add a pinch of salt per 10G, diluted first and then poured into the tank. This will help with gill function and the potential nitrite issue you may soon see. DO NOT do any more PWC's until you get a real dechlor or figure out the problem if it's not the emergency dechlor. What brand did you buy? Was there a date on the package? Did you follow the instructions properly? If you were using API before, the other brands might need 10X more of a dose to treat the same amount that API does. Does the dechlor have any other chemical in it where it claims to do other things like slime coat, stress relief, etc? It's almost never a good idea to add all of them other chemicals to our tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the grocery store that does not take care of heavy metals. Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts and a couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly affected, when the lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his mouth at the surface (looking up), gasping for air. There is plenty of circulation and also a bubble wand in the tank. Nitrate = 10 ppm Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 ppm at most I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's on the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was running my fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the intakes of the canister filters to help increase oxygen if that may be low somehow... but there should be plenty of water movement. If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's been over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad there's not a test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is there? lol If I've been using another water conditioner for removing just chlorine and the LFS finally gets more of the right water conditioner in stock, should I dose the tank for the missed PWC's or do something different? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47349	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

Double check with them. They have been known to just switch over without warning folks since they don't have to according to the EPA/DEQ. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? My water company only uses chlorine right now, they have a plan to add ammonia to the water supply but that's in the future, they haven't changed that yet. I increased the water flow as much as possible and lowered the water level so that the canister filters are pushing water at the surface. Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > iI would increase the aeration as much as reasonably possible. > > I know Amquel Plus depletes or utilizes the oxygen which limits what > is available to the fish, if this brand does something similar you may > want to increase that surface agitation. > > Or... > > The emergency brand may not take care of Chloramines and you may have > them in your water. In which case you need to deal with the > Chloramines ASAP. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:26 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both > chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the grocery > store that does not take care of heavy metals. > Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be > "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts and a > couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly affected, when > the lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his mouth at the > surface (looking up), gasping for air. There is plenty of circulation > and also a bubble wand in the tank. > Nitrate = 10 ppm > Nitrite = 0 > Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 ppm at > most > > I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. > Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's on > the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was running > my fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the intakes of > the canister filters to help increase oxygen if that may be low somehow... > but there should be plenty of water movement. > If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's been > over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad there's not a > test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is there? lol If I've > been using another water conditioner for removing just chlorine and > the LFS finally gets more of the right water conditioner in stock, > should I dose the tank for the missed PWC's or do something different? > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47350	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/15/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

Your pH and hardness levels are at the upper end of what CAE's have been found in, in the wild... and actually even higher than the highest pH that they are found in the wild. Since pH is a logarithmic scale a difference of one pH unit is equivalent to a ten-fold difference in hydrogen ion concentration. This means that an 8.0 pH is 10 times higher than 7.0 and 100 times higher than 6.0. It's not just a little different. There *preferred* levels are in brackets, which means your pH is MUCH higher than what they prefer, a full point on the pH scale from 7.2 and even higher than their highest level of 8.0 in the wild. Mongabay says: Water chemistry: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 5-20 dH (10), 75-82°F (24-28°C) Since you only plan to keep it short term, it may do OK but it would probably like to be in a different kind of water (lower pH) if it had a choice. They are often found in gravel bottomed streams in the wild so this likely is a reason for the broad range of pH levels in the wild as the pH of the water will change depending on the type of bottom area that it is flowing over. Remember that in the wild, when a fish is temporarily in water that it may not prefer (higher or lower temp, higher or lower pH, etc.), it can usually swim to another area of water that it does prefer. They can't do this in our aquariums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Ray and Lenny, Hi! In a reply to Ray,I don't have a real Algae problem, as my nitrates are often 10-25 with sometimes 50 (when let the week pass without my 2 PWCs). But I like the way my CAE cleans the surfaces of the 20G, especially where my magnet scrubber can't reach. I'm wondering if the Mbunas will actually "clean" the rocks, and not only eat the algae thread leaving their "source" untouched in an unpleasant scene. The "aggression" issue was what I was actually inquiring about, I usually don't keep my Golden CAEs until they're longer than 3-3.5", which makes a great deal for both me and the LFS, assuming that the CAE will be sold to be re-homed in an appropriate tank's size. So, keeping in mind that the CAE won't stay here until it's longer than 3.5", do you think that a 2-3" CAE will show aggression towards other fish "Malawi Cichlids here"? I was actually expecting a reply that the Mbunas are the ones who will likely start the aggression, not just sit and wait until they are attacked themselves. Finally, I was looking at the CAE profiles, and found out that my tanks parameters are not the "ideal" ones for this species, but they are not that far away from it (maybe?). The 20G parameters during last year ranged in these numbers, as my "fisheis paper notebook" shows: pH 8-8.2-8.4 (often 8.2) GH 10-15 (often the color is closer to10) KH 12 - 16 (often closer to16) There are not parameters for the 28G new cichlid tank, as it's not cycled yet. But I don't think the parameters will be different, as these numbers are very close to my tap water's parameters. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" long so they're not really compatible with your situation. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae themselves. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php First paragraph from above link... "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the proteins and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire day but rather skip a meal from time to time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi, Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If yes, is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock with the CAE choice until further notice! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47351	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Yuh, right, maybe. Uh-huh. Perhaps. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish The supposed shrieking, or screaming, as some have said, has nothing to do with the death. It is merely air that has been captured between the shell of the lobster and its body. One can pull the lobster from the pot immediately after submerging it and it is either stunned or already dead. The type of thought behind the gizmo in the article you cite is nothing more than people thinking that all animals feel pain the way we do and attribute their human characteristics onto animals. Research tends to shoe that lobsters do not feel pain. The nervous system they have is rather rudimentary, and the brain is nothing more than a ganglia of nerves, and not developed like in mammals and other animals further along the evolutionary trail. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kindness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47352	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Then why do they thrash around for five minutes? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish A lobster that is dead or near dead prior to being cooked ends up with a mushy tail and claw meat. The meat of a lobster spoils VERY fast compared to other animals. They are killed by the thermal shock. Lobsters are interesting creatures. They can live for days if kept cool/cold and wet, with no need to be submerged in water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish How fresh does it have to be cooked? I mean, does it really lose flavor if you kill the animal five minutes before you cook it? How do you kill them, anyway? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47353	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

\\Steve//, I appreciate the somewhat detailed response to my post, and welcome any insight shedding more light on this subject. Since, as you say, the answer to the question of whether lobsters can feel pain is "unquestionably" found in the flip of a coin, of course still leaves this subject up in the air -- with two different schools of thought. I can understand the beliefs and arguments of both camps, but as this scenario exposed here shows there is still further room for debate, this then still remains ambiguous. Since there is room for either possibility, it would then have to remain feasible that there's the chance that they can feel pain. If I recall right in college classes, any animal having a nerve cluster capable of originating signals (stimuli) from their neuron bundle (brain? -- even a rudimentary one) to control their bodily functions, including those of mobility via muscle reaction to these signals, is likewise capable of receiving stimuli by this neuron bundle from external sources in this environment that they and their nervous system evolved in. Of course, having rudimentary nervous system would dictate that the oganism has no conscious thought -- and may not perceive "pain" in the same way as more highly evolved organisms do -- but that neuron bundle is still receiving stimuli that is adverse to their well being in what we would interprete as "pain" if we were experiencing adverse stimuli detrimental to us -- a difference that we would be "conscious" of it. This (having no "conscious" thought) is not to diminish the notion that this organism is still receiving "pain," or discomforting stimulus signals to its neuron bundle in varying degrees regardless of how primitive or how advanced that neuron bundle has evolved to. Now, I not about to suggest that lobsters should not be boiled, nor was I ever meaning to intimate that. I would only want to point out that while we do boil lobsters, that there remains the possibility that as we do this that we may be subjecting them to pain as we do it -- whether or not we choose to acknowledge it. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47354	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

:) Guess I picked the right post to read. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Wow! this is great! I hope it catches on! Thanks for posting that! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kindness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47355	From: Menagerie_Manager	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Hehe. I've tried harness systems. They don't work with a determined dog. (I've never used pinch or spiked, but would if the other choice was to kill the dog to prevent it attacking). Plus, a lot of so called faux fur is actually dog or cat fur from China, taken is extremely inhumane ways. They'll call it faux rabbit or leopard or some other species that it isn't. The concern for me wasn't being dragged down the street. It was for her getting hit by a car. The cats are never in any danger, although they don't know that. Daisy is a nurturer to all living things. My niece now has the kitten that I found in the garage last summer and she says he thinks he's a dog. I think as far as the "AR" issue we're very close to being in agreement. To cut through the semantics, I'll agree that animals have no rights, but I maintain that humans DO have the responsibility, obligation even, to be humane. I also maintain that the more vocal groups that call themselves animal rights activists have a really skewed idea of what's best for the individual animals. In fact their motives are extremely FISHY. There! Back on topic! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> DebR, OMG.. how inhumane, cruel and sadistic of you to use a choke collar. You probably have the kind with the inverted spikes that dig into it's neck too.. don't you... you wicked, evil human!!! You should get a nice faux leather, faux fur lined 7-point harness system for your dog so that when it takes off after it's arch-enemy, the cat, you can hold it back and the jolt is dispersed over the entire harness instead of clamping down and choking the life out of it and preventing it from breathing. Yes... I'm being sarcastic but if you join sides with the AR folks, that's what they'll expect of you. After all, you just said it yourself. DebR said, "That's what I mean by considering the animal's suffering: Is it necessary? Is there a more humane way? ..." and yes, the faux leather, faux fur lined, 7-point harness system is more humane than a choke collar. Not nearly as cost effective or efficient at doing what you need done... stopping the dog from dragging you down the street... but it's not about you.. it's about the rights of the animal... NOT!!! You said it yourself... "unnecessary suffering"... not *all* suffering. All that said, it's perfectly fine to boil lobster, crawfish, crabs, shrimp, veggies and anything else you want to eat. God said it, I believe it, that settles it! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47356	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

Lenny, A rock lobster is a poor imitation of a real "Maine" lobster I use Maine in quotes, because that lobster inhabits waters from MA north into Canadian waters. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Is it time for this yet? I know \\Steve// is ready for this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWTLx1Ndns Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish The supposed shrieking, or screaming, as some have said, has nothing to do with the death. It is merely air that has been captured between the shell of the lobster and its body. One can pull the lobster from the pot immediately after submerging it and it is either stunned or already dead. The type of thought behind the gizmo in the article you cite is nothing more than people thinking that all animals feel pain the way we do and attribute their human characteristics onto animals. Research tends to shoe that lobsters do not feel pain. The nervous system they have is rather rudimentary, and the brain is nothing more than a ganglia of nerves, and not developed like in mammals and other animals further along the evolutionary trail. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kind ness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

I've already debunked that article as mostly false information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish :) Guess I picked the right post to read. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Wow! this is great! I hope it catches on! Thanks for posting that! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kind ness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47358	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Animal Rights & Fish

I was talking about the music as a send off from this topic. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Lenny, A rock lobster is a poor imitation of a real "Maine" lobster I use Maine in quotes, because that lobster inhabits waters from MA north into Canadian waters. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Is it time for this yet? I know \\Steve// is ready for this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWTLx1Ndns Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish The supposed shrieking, or screaming, as some have said, has nothing to do with the death. It is merely air that has been captured between the shell of the lobster and its body. One can pull the lobster from the pot immediately after submerging it and it is either stunned or already dead. The type of thought behind the gizmo in the article you cite is nothing more than people thinking that all animals feel pain the way we do and attribute their human characteristics onto animals. Research tends to shoe that lobsters do not feel pain. The nervous system they have is rather rudimentary, and the brain is nothing more than a ganglia of nerves, and not developed like in mammals and other animals further along the evolutionary trail. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 1:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kind ness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish You cannot cut the head off, you see, a lobster has a cefalotorax. In other words, head/chest is fused, you would have to tear off the tail and leave the rest of the animal in agony.... to me that sounds a lot more awful than boiling. Oh yeah, and you loose the "sweetness" of the meat when it's not cooked fresh. Enid ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 10:22:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Enid, exactly what happens to the flavor if you first cut off the lobster's head, then boil it? Have you tried this? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@ yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enid Rodriguez" <gwydryn2000@ yahoo.com> To: <AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish ok, I feel the need to come out and jump in on this one; First off, *I* am a food inspector USDA in a chicken slaughter plant and have been so for 20 years. (waiting for the screams of horror to subside) As far as pain and all that, I have seen chickens, no head, eviscerated, plucked that are STILL flapping it's wings when it gets to me, which is about 10 minutes after it has been killed. (eeek! eek! the horror! and all that) Also have gotten plenty of hearts beating strongly while I'm holding it in my gloved hand ( also 10 minutes after killing). Chickens are electrocuted, (instant brain death) then have their throats sliced to bleed out. So the stuff I get to see is all part of automatic response. Part of the muscle contraction is caused by build up of lactic acid in the muscle ( no blood to clear this up), so a series of muscle cramps occur. Has NOTHING to do with pain, as the animal has been dead. It happens in all animals to a bigger or lesser degree. As far as taking a cleaver to a lobster in an attempt to brain it, well, like Lenny said, you are more likely to hit it's stomach and spill all that savory content ( lobsters ARE scavengers) in the boiling water than actually killing it. Properly boiling it will result in death by temperature shock which is pretty much instant, and it's more sanitary for the consumer. As someone who has dived and spear fished lobster, I can tell you that if you don't cook the lobster right away you might as well have left it in the sea. (no, not the boston lobster, the caribbean rock lobster-nobody can pay me enough to get in water that cold) Now I have eaten lobster that were caught and frozen, THEN cooked. The flavor is lacking. Much better when boiled alive. Just my experience. I'm also with Lenny on the fact that in shrimp and crawfish; if the tail ain't curling, I ain't eating it, no telling how long it's been dead before it got cooked. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: "sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com" <sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:00:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Hi Y'all, I'm just now getting in on this discussion of the animal rights & fish, as all northern New Jersey, portions of Southern New York State and at least Western Connecticut was without electrical power due to a "nor'easter" (of hurricane force) hit this area. I was without power since 4:00 AM yesterday (Sunday) and just got it back late last night. Still 127,000 homes w/o power this morning in NJ. Didn't get up on line last night as I was busy mopping up the upstairs bathroom floor's puddles that resulted from my roof now leaking through the attic (even as it's still raining today) from shingles being torn off, but some people here are a lot worse off. In addressing your opening of this thread \\Steve//, as a reply to mine, I appreciate the response and find it quite interesting. From the link you provided, it's good to see that the aspca here in this country is at least a bit more vigilant that it's CASPCA counterpart in Canada. I would though, like to comment on their conclusions. While Octupi and Squid may be considered Mollusks (and this may be another example of mis-identifiication of putting them in the same Phylum with clams, snails and other shelled invertibrates) , they do in fact have a central nervous system, and a quite highly developed one at that -- which I'm sure many here are well aware of, having an interest in aquatic animals in general. The Octopus is known to be highly intelligent and does have a highly developed brain; it's said to be at least equal to that of birds -- and of them, it would be closer to Parrots and similar birds which are obviously highly intelligent, as just about everyone is aware (they are no "bird-brains" ). Looks like the ASPCA is missing the boat here. As for lobsters and crabs (and crayfish), they are crustaceans, although I don't think that link went into this. Now, in responding to some others' remarks, while I'm not a "tree-hugger, " if we want to address the issue of animal cruelty and it's related pain in killing them for food, then I can see it as no other definition than YES when we suddenly plunge Lobsters, and Crayfish into boiling water. Nothing dies "instantly," as there must elapse some time in the natural procession of time in accomplishing this, even though that time may be very small -- even much less than a minute for a large Lobster (milliseconds if someone is shot in the brain, but as long as any minute oxygen content remaining in the brain cells keeps sustaining them, after the brain shuts the heart down -- also taking at least milliseconds) . Even if it's 20 (or 10?) seconds for a large Lobster, during that time of extreme pain, I'm sure it must undergo extreme agony for however developed its nervous system is -- and while I can't say how much actual pain that would be (going on their lower state of nervous system development when compared to ours), most any animal having a central nervous system with a brain will experience pain as a result of these intense neuron stimuli; it is part & parcel to their having neuron sensors leading to a central brain, along with their capabilities of sending out signals from their brains to activate their muscles. Would anyone here like to be dumped into a pot of boiling water? Our deaths would not be "instantaneous, " since it takes at least several seconds (or more?) for us to completely die during which time it would not be pleasant -- even though we cannot compare it to much lower animals. Even while it has been brought up that Lobsters, Crayfish and Crabs "need" to be cooked by plunging them in boiling water because they will "spoil" otherwise, I don't buy the notion that they would spoil upon dying via other methods than boiling with having enzymes released when they are killed. If this were the case, why wouldn't these enzymes be released when we boil them (?) -- after all, we're still killing them -- and while boiling may kill them within seconds, so might other methods such as hitting them on the head with a hammer (as they do with large marine game fish when they want to "dispatch" them in short time), which at least renders them unconscious via concussion before (or as) they are actually killed. This "enzyme release" can't then have anything to do with how long (in seconds -- or milliseconds) it takes for a Lobster to die if both methods take the same amount of time, and it can't be because because these enzymes would have more time to spread through the meat if not boiled because it takes about 13 minutes to fully cook a one pound hard shelled Lobster (and an additional minute for each 1/4 pound); with softer shelled Lobsters taking 3 minutes less for the first pound. An average size Crayfish can take about 7 minutes to cook, with pounders needing 12 minutes. Much smaller crawdads might take from 2 to 5 minutes to cook, depending upon their size. I believe that the only answer here is convenience in time expenditure for us, as no one is going to stand around killing 50 Crawdads one by one by bopping them on the head -- nor would the average cook consider using a hammer on the head of Lobster to first render them unconcious, more often as (beside from the obvious time-element) , they most probably don't realize they are subjecting these animals to any cruelty -- but which they actually are! Ray ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47359	From: Noura	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

Hi Lenny, I do prefer to have fish that actually "like" my water, but I'm very limited in options here, that's why I opened a long thread last week about changing your water hardness. btw, if someone was wondering on what I have decided about that, I have a multiple steps plan (changing the shell gravel with pure gravel, testing all the rocks to eliminate the limestones, trying and testing different pieces of driftwood, and finally giving a thought about that expensive RO system and see how much will it cost here and how practical will it be to use it for PWCs). Back to the Algae eater, as I said I'm limited in options, I thought the CAE suits my conditions, other than the size, as I was apparently looking into a different CAE profile from what you were looking at. I don't know which is more reliable. http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/100056.asp here it says : pH 6-8.4 , Hardness 5-25 , Temp 74-82 That's how assumed that my water quality is not pointing to heaven away from the preferred condition of the CAE :) Anyway, I'll keep looking for algae eaters that most sites "agree" are suitable for me, again, other than the size which is solved by exchanging fish, or giving them away if necessary. Thanks for your help Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:44 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE Your pH and hardness levels are at the upper end of what CAE's have been found in, in the wild... and actually even higher than the highest pH that they are found in the wild. Since pH is a logarithmic scale a difference of one pH unit is equivalent to a ten-fold difference in hydrogen ion concentration. This means that an 8.0 pH is 10 times higher than 7.0 and 100 times higher than 6.0. It's not just a little different. There *preferred* levels are in brackets, which means your pH is MUCH higher than what they prefer, a full point on the pH scale from 7.2 and even higher than their highest level of 8.0 in the wild. Mongabay says: Water chemistry: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 5-20 dH (10), 75-82°F (24-28°C) Since you only plan to keep it short term, it may do OK but it would probably like to be in a different kind of water (lower pH) if it had a choice. They are often found in gravel bottomed streams in the wild so this likely is a reason for the broad range of pH levels in the wild as the pH of the water will change depending on the type of bottom area that it is flowing over. Remember that in the wild, when a fish is temporarily in water that it may not prefer (higher or lower temp, higher or lower pH, etc.), it can usually swim to another area of water that it does prefer. They can't do this in our aquariums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Ray and Lenny, Hi! In a reply to Ray,I don't have a real Algae problem, as my nitrates are often 10-25 with sometimes 50 (when let the week pass without my 2 PWCs). But I like the way my CAE cleans the surfaces of the 20G, especially where my magnet scrubber can't reach. I'm wondering if the Mbunas will actually "clean" the rocks, and not only eat the algae thread leaving their "source" untouched in an unpleasant scene. The "aggression" issue was what I was actually inquiring about, I usually don't keep my Golden CAEs until they're longer than 3-3.5", which makes a great deal for both me and the LFS, assuming that the CAE will be sold to be re-homed in an appropriate tank's size. So, keeping in mind that the CAE won't stay here until it's longer than 3.5", do you think that a 2-3" CAE will show aggression towards other fish "Malawi Cichlids here"? I was actually expecting a reply that the Mbunas are the ones who will likely start the aggression, not just sit and wait until they are attacked themselves. Finally, I was looking at the CAE profiles, and found out that my tanks parameters are not the "ideal" ones for this species, but they are not that far away from it (maybe?). The 20G parameters during last year ranged in these numbers, as my "fisheis paper notebook" shows: pH 8-8.2-8.4 (often 8.2) GH 10-15 (often the color is closer to10) KH 12 - 16 (often closer to16) There are not parameters for the 28G new cichlid tank, as it's not cycled yet. But I don't think the parameters will be different, as these numbers are very close to my tap water's parameters. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" long so they're not really compatible with your situation. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae themselves. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php First paragraph from above link... "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the proteins and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire day but rather skip a meal from time to time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi, Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If yes, is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock with the CAE choice until further notice! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47360	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

I checked the water report for last year, it hadn't changed (yet), they still say they are planning to add ammonia to the system this year (2010) but it doesn't say when. The water conditioner I was using was made by Wardley's, I won't do another PWC without water conditioner that I know works. I was using an API brand (stress coat) before, but was trying to find something in town that takes care of both heavy metals and chlorine without adding anything else (I don't think fish need aloe). And yes my pH in the 125 gallon tank is 7, in my 55 gallon it's usually just a tad higher at 7.1-7.2. It's easier to keep the GH up in the 55 gallon, in the 125 gallon the plants use up the GH faster, and with the HOB now gone I had to move my crushed coral into the rena xp 4. I'm going to rearrange a little in the eheim and add a little crushed coral to that filter as well to keep the GH stable. I will check the date on the wardley's water conditioner really quick. I could not find any expiration date on the bottle anywhere. I used it per the instructions which say use 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water change. It's supposed to treat chlorine and chloramine only (no heavy metals). I suppose it's possible that I could have slightly overdosed or under dosed, but not drastically, since I use the python to remove water and don't measure the amount of water I take out exactly. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Double check with them. They have been known to just switch over without > warning folks since they don't have to according to the EPA/DEQ. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:43 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > My water company only uses chlorine right now, they have a plan to add > ammonia to the water supply but that's in the future, they haven't changed > that yet. > I increased the water flow as much as possible and lowered the water level > so that the canister filters are pushing water at the surface. > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > iI would increase the aeration as much as reasonably possible. > > > > I know Amquel Plus depletes or utilizes the oxygen which limits what > > is available to the fish, if this brand does something similar you may > > want to increase that surface agitation. > > > > Or... > > > > The emergency brand may not take care of Chloramines and you may have > > them in your water. In which case you need to deal with the > > Chloramines ASAP. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:26 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > > > I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both > > chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the grocery > > store that does not take care of heavy metals. > > Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be > > "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts and a > > couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly affected, when > > the lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his mouth at the > > surface (looking up), gasping for air. There is plenty of circulation > > and also a bubble wand in the tank. > > Nitrate = 10 ppm > > Nitrite = 0 > > Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 ppm at > > most > > > > I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. > > Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's on > > the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was running > > my fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the intakes of > > the canister filters to help increase oxygen if that may be low > somehow... > > but there should be plenty of water movement. > > If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's been > > over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad there's not a > > test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is there? lol If I've > > been using another water conditioner for removing just chlorine and > > the LFS finally gets more of the right water conditioner in stock, > > should I dose the tank for the missed PWC's or do something different? > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47361	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less than liquid" LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to see > what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run are on > a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not sure if they > test every water supply or not. > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and lead in > the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I figured this > way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat heavy > metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and would > therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47362	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: test kits

Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not sure if they test every water supply or not. According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and lead in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I figured this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat heavy metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and would therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47363	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish

I'm afraid I simply don't think it's false information, Lenny. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:50 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish I've already debunked that article as mostly false information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish :) Guess I picked the right post to read. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Menagerie_Manager" <menagerie_manager@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Animal Rights & Fish Wow! this is great! I hope it catches on! Thanks for posting that! DebR and the Three Goldfish (CB, Lucille, and Raven) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1230020/How-kill-lobster-kind ness.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47364	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

AquariumLife.net is usually pretty good for profiles but they are not the best source and never a first source for me unless they are the only site with a profile on a species, which is doubtful. I do trust most of what they say and I even used many of their profiles as a starting point for building my Life Span article http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans for our fish but many of their lifespans were also incorrect. That said, I would rely on Fishbase.org's profiles (which most of Mongabay's profiles are based on, except they put the Fishbase info into more coherent and easier to read format since Fishbase has info contained in MANY different links on each of their profiles. Fishbase.org is the ONLY internet site that I know of that ONLY has true scientific data on their profiles, not subject to interpretations, theories or changes from amateur home aquarium hobbyists. For example, when you see a link for Diet on Fishbase, the diet is based on several dissections of wild caught fish and examinations of their stomach contents to see what they actually eat in the wild. The top four sites I use for profiles are http://fish.Mongabay.com (or http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm and put a bullet in the Advanced section for Mongabay Fish), http://www.TheKrib.com, http://www.BadmansTropicalfish.com and then use http://www.Fishbase.org to verify things if these three sites give contradictory information. Remember what I said earlier, that while CAE's may be found in very hard, high pH water at times, according to Mongabay, they are mostly found in 7.2 pH and 10 GH water. Since they live in streams, the water parameters change throughout the year based on rainfall, etc., so they DO NOT live in super hard, very high pH water all year round... only during certain periods. Other than your Mbuna cichlids, I'm not sure how many "algae eater" type fish you will find that like your water. Most of the true algae eating fish come from softer, lower pH waters than what you have. I decided to do some Googling for - hard water algae eater aquarium - and found this... 7. Nerite Snails (from http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php) These snails (Neritina spp.) are among the most beautiful available in the aquarium trade these days. It is not just the beauty of their shell patterns that makes them so desirable, but also their appetite for algae. It is known that Zebra Neritinas eat the hard to clean Green Spot algae and the carpet-like Green Beard algae. These snails will not do well for long in pH lower than 7 since they need alkaline and hard water conditions to keep their shells healthy. When reproducing they will often spread hundreds of hard white eggs all over the decoration and equipment, which can be difficult to remove. Loaches and some Cichlids will eat these snails. They grows to about 3 cm. Cover the tank, since Neritinas are known for their ability to leave the tank. More info about Zebra Nerite Snails can be found in the Gallery section. http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php This LONG article from a Salt Water website has lots of info on Nerite snails. The reason you will find more info in salt water forums is because Nerites do better in salt water but can also live in fresh water but will not breed in fresh water. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm Here's another long article about Nerite Snails. http://www.shrimpdiaries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning- green-algae-tanks/ OR http://tinyurl.com/ylp8992 Other searching found this thread on PlecoFanatics.com and they never did come to a consensus of any plecos that do well long term in hard, high pH water. http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177 This article from a site I consider pretty reputable, http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm, will give you info on your Malawi cichlids as well as info about possible algae eaters that will do OK with them in the last paragraph. They mention Common Pleco's, which get really BIG so you would have the same trade-in issue but also the Ancistrus sp.... a/k/a Bristle Nose Pleco. As you will see in the above article from PlecoFanatics, either of these fish will have to be slowly acclimated over a several week period to your hard water. If you get either of these fish, acclimate them first to a tank with around 7.0 pH water (which you'll have to mix your tap and distilled or other water to get to 7.0) and then do 10% PWC's with your tap water once or twice a week until the pH has raised to your main tank's pH and then you could move the pleco into your main Malawi tank. The article does mention keeping CAE's in with Malawi cichlids as long as you trade them in often since, as CAE's mature, they do not eat as much algae and instead may go after other fish instead. Maybe Donna R. will chime in with other thoughts or you could search around on http://Cichlid-Forum.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi Lenny, I do prefer to have fish that actually "like" my water, but I'm very limited in options here, that's why I opened a long thread last week about changing your water hardness. btw, if someone was wondering on what I have decided about that, I have a multiple steps plan (changing the shell gravel with pure gravel, testing all the rocks to eliminate the limestones, trying and testing different pieces of driftwood, and finally giving a thought about that expensive RO system and see how much will it cost here and how practical will it be to use it for PWCs). Back to the Algae eater, as I said I'm limited in options, I thought the CAE suits my conditions, other than the size, as I was apparently looking into a different CAE profile from what you were looking at. I don't know which is more reliable. http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/10005 6.asp here it says : pH 6-8.4 , Hardness 5-25 , Temp 74-82 That's how assumed that my water quality is not pointing to heaven away from the preferred condition of the CAE :) Anyway, I'll keep looking for algae eaters that most sites "agree" are suitable for me, again, other than the size which is solved by exchanging fish, or giving them away if necessary. Thanks for your help Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:44 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE Your pH and hardness levels are at the upper end of what CAE's have been found in, in the wild... and actually even higher than the highest pH that they are found in the wild. Since pH is a logarithmic scale a difference of one pH unit is equivalent to a ten-fold difference in hydrogen ion concentration. This means that an 8.0 pH is 10 times higher than 7.0 and 100 times higher than 6.0. It's not just a little different. There *preferred* levels are in brackets, which means your pH is MUCH higher than what they prefer, a full point on the pH scale from 7.2 and even higher than their highest level of 8.0 in the wild. Mongabay says: Water chemistry: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 5-20 dH (10), 75-82°F (24-28°C) Since you only plan to keep it short term, it may do OK but it would probably like to be in a different kind of water (lower pH) if it had a choice. They are often found in gravel bottomed streams in the wild so this likely is a reason for the broad range of pH levels in the wild as the pH of the water will change depending on the type of bottom area that it is flowing over. Remember that in the wild, when a fish is temporarily in water that it may not prefer (higher or lower temp, higher or lower pH, etc.), it can usually swim to another area of water that it does prefer. They can't do this in our aquariums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Ray and Lenny, Hi! In a reply to Ray,I don't have a real Algae problem, as my nitrates are often 10-25 with sometimes 50 (when let the week pass without my 2 PWCs). But I like the way my CAE cleans the surfaces of the 20G, especially where my magnet scrubber can't reach. I'm wondering if the Mbunas will actually "clean" the rocks, and not only eat the algae thread leaving their "source" untouched in an unpleasant scene. The "aggression" issue was what I was actually inquiring about, I usually don't keep my Golden CAEs until they're longer than 3-3.5", which makes a great deal for both me and the LFS, assuming that the CAE will be sold to be re-homed in an appropriate tank's size. So, keeping in mind that the CAE won't stay here until it's longer than 3.5", do you think that a 2-3" CAE will show aggression towards other fish "Malawi Cichlids here"? I was actually expecting a reply that the Mbunas are the ones who will likely start the aggression, not just sit and wait until they are attacked themselves. Finally, I was looking at the CAE profiles, and found out that my tanks parameters are not the "ideal" ones for this species, but they are not that far away from it (maybe?). The 20G parameters during last year ranged in these numbers, as my "fisheis paper notebook" shows: pH 8-8.2-8.4 (often 8.2) GH 10-15 (often the color is closer to10) KH 12 - 16 (often closer to16) There are not parameters for the 28G new cichlid tank, as it's not cycled yet. But I don't think the parameters will be different, as these numbers are very close to my tap water's parameters. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" long so they're not really compatible with your situation. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae themselves. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php First paragraph from above link... "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the proteins and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire day but rather skip a meal from time to time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi, Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If yes, is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock with the CAE choice until further notice! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47365	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

You might want to call them. If you look at my blog article about "Chlorine - Chloramine Information" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html, you'll see that my local water report only lists chlorine content and doesn't mention chloramine at all but after I emailed them, they explained that the EPA/DEQ only requires them to list the chlorine level so they don't even bother to mention the ammonia/chloramine level in the water. Baseline testing your water again, after adding a dechlor, to see if there is an ammonia reading of around 0.5ppm, will usually confirm if chloramine is now being used. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? I checked the water report for last year, it hadn't changed (yet), they still say they are planning to add ammonia to the system this year (2010) but it doesn't say when. The water conditioner I was using was made by Wardley's, I won't do another PWC without water conditioner that I know works. I was using an API brand (stress coat) before, but was trying to find something in town that takes care of both heavy metals and chlorine without adding anything else (I don't think fish need aloe). And yes my pH in the 125 gallon tank is 7, in my 55 gallon it's usually just a tad higher at 7.1-7.2. It's easier to keep the GH up in the 55 gallon, in the 125 gallon the plants use up the GH faster, and with the HOB now gone I had to move my crushed coral into the rena xp 4. I'm going to rearrange a little in the eheim and add a little crushed coral to that filter as well to keep the GH stable. I will check the date on the wardley's water conditioner really quick. I could not find any expiration date on the bottle anywhere. I used it per the instructions which say use 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water change. It's supposed to treat chlorine and chloramine only (no heavy metals). I suppose it's possible that I could have slightly overdosed or under dosed, but not drastically, since I use the python to remove water and don't measure the amount of water I take out exactly. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Double check with them. They have been known to just switch over > without warning folks since they don't have to according to the EPA/DEQ. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:43 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > My water company only uses chlorine right now, they have a plan to add > ammonia to the water supply but that's in the future, they haven't > changed that yet. > I increased the water flow as much as possible and lowered the water > level so that the canister filters are pushing water at the surface. > > Amber > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > iI would increase the aeration as much as reasonably possible. > > > > I know Amquel Plus depletes or utilizes the oxygen which limits what > > is available to the fish, if this brand does something similar you > > may want to increase that surface agitation. > > > > Or... > > > > The emergency brand may not take care of Chloramines and you may > > have them in your water. In which case you need to deal with the > > Chloramines ASAP. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:26 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > > > I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both > > chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the > > grocery store that does not take care of heavy metals. > > Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be > > "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts and > > a couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly affected, > > when the lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his mouth at > > the surface (looking up), gasping for air. There is plenty of > > circulation and also a bubble wand in the tank. > > Nitrate = 10 ppm > > Nitrite = 0 > > Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 ppm > > at most > > > > I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. > > Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's > > on the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was > > running my fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the > > intakes of the canister filters to help increase oxygen if that may > > be low > somehow... > > but there should be plenty of water movement. > > If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's > > been over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad > > there's not a test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is > > there? lol If I've been using another water conditioner for removing > > just chlorine and the LFS finally gets more of the right water > > conditioner in stock, should I dose the tank for the missed PWC's or do something different? > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47366	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best price you will find for a smaller container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next best price for me down here. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less than liquid" LOL. Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to see > what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run are on > a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not sure if they > test every water supply or not. > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and lead in > the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I figured this > way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat heavy > metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and would > therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47367	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

I emailed them last year already and spoke to the manager in charge, not sure if you remember all that. I'm gonna try not to snap, it's been "one of those days" LOL. I can email them again and see if they've done any changes, but with how our city is run, I highly doubt they've spent ANY money on fixing what they already do ;) LOL. Now if it was free to change it; they would have already gone and changed it all ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You might want to call them. If you look at my blog article about > "Chlorine > - Chloramine Information" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html, > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.html,> > you'll see that my local water report only lists chlorine content and > doesn't mention chloramine at all but after I emailed them, they explained > that the EPA/DEQ only requires them to list the chlorine level so they > don't > even bother to mention the ammonia/chloramine level in the water. > > Baseline testing your water again, after adding a dechlor, to see if there > is an ammonia reading of around 0.5ppm, will usually confirm if chloramine > is now being used. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > I checked the water report for last year, it hadn't changed (yet), they > still say they are planning to add ammonia to the system this year > (2010) but it doesn't say when. > The water conditioner I was using was made by Wardley's, I won't do > another > PWC without water conditioner that I know works. I was using an API brand > (stress coat) before, but was trying to find something in town that takes > care of both heavy metals and chlorine without adding anything else (I > don't > think fish need aloe). > And yes my pH in the 125 gallon tank is 7, in my 55 gallon it's > usually just > a tad higher at 7.1-7.2. It's easier to keep the GH up in the 55 > gallon, in > the 125 gallon the plants use up the GH faster, and with the HOB now > gone I > had to move my crushed coral into the rena xp 4. I'm going to rearrange a > little in the eheim and add a little crushed coral to that filter as > well to > keep the GH stable. > I will check the date on the wardley's water conditioner really quick. I > could not find any expiration date on the bottle anywhere. I used it > per the > instructions which say use 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water > change. It's > supposed to treat chlorine and chloramine only (no heavy metals). I > suppose > it's possible that I could have slightly overdosed or under dosed, but not > drastically, since I use the python to remove water and don't measure the > amount of water I take out exactly. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Double check with them. They have been known to just switch over > > without warning folks since they don't have to according to the EPA/DEQ. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:43 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > > > My water company only uses chlorine right now, they have a plan to add > > ammonia to the water supply but that's in the future, they haven't > > changed that yet. > > I increased the water flow as much as possible and lowered the water > > level so that the canister filters are pushing water at the surface. > > > > Amber > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > iI would increase the aeration as much as reasonably possible. > > > > > > I know Amquel Plus depletes or utilizes the oxygen which limits what > > > is available to the fish, if this brand does something similar you > > > may want to increase that surface agitation. > > > > > > Or... > > > > > > The emergency brand may not take care of Chloramines and you may > > > have them in your water. In which case you need to deal with the > > > Chloramines ASAP. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:26 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > > > > > I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both > > > chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the > > > grocery store that does not take care of heavy metals. > > > Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be > > > "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts and > > > a couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly affected, > > > when the lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his mouth at > > > the surface (looking up), gasping for air. There is plenty of > > > circulation and also a bubble wand in the tank. > > > Nitrate = 10 ppm > > > Nitrite = 0 > > > Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 ppm > > > at most > > > > > > I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. > > > Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's > > > on the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was > > > running my fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the > > > intakes of the canister filters to help increase oxygen if that may > > > be low > > somehow... > > > but there should be plenty of water movement. > > > If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's > > > been over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad > > > there's not a test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is > > > there? lol If I've been using another water conditioner for removing > > > just chlorine and the LFS finally gets more of the right water > > > conditioner in stock, should I dose the tank for the missed PWC's > or do > something different? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47368	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

my LFS got some nerite snails in... they're slowly killing them in their 6.5 pH water... and ignore my advice of course ;) LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > AquariumLife.net is usually pretty good for profiles but they are not the > best source and never a first source for me unless they are the only site > with a profile on a species, which is doubtful. I do trust most of what > they say and I even used many of their profiles as a starting point for > building my Life Span article http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans> for our fish > but many of their lifespans were also incorrect. > > That said, I would rely on Fishbase.org's profiles (which most of > Mongabay's > profiles are based on, except they put the Fishbase info into more > coherent > and easier to read format since Fishbase has info contained in MANY > different links on each of their profiles. Fishbase.org is the ONLY > internet site that I know of that ONLY has true scientific data on their > profiles, not subject to interpretations, theories or changes from amateur > home aquarium hobbyists. For example, when you see a link for Diet on > Fishbase, the diet is based on several dissections of wild caught fish and > examinations of their stomach contents to see what they actually eat > in the > wild. The top four sites I use for profiles are > http://fish.Mongabay.com <http://fish.Mongabay.com> > (or http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm > <http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm> and put a bullet in the Advanced > section for Mongabay Fish), http://www.TheKrib.com, > <http://www.TheKrib.com,> > http://www.BadmansTropicalfish.com > <http://www.BadmansTropicalfish.com> and then use > http://www.Fishbase.org <http://www.Fishbase.org> to > verify things if these three sites give contradictory information. > > Remember what I said earlier, that while CAE's may be found in very hard, > high pH water at times, according to Mongabay, they are mostly found > in 7.2 > pH and 10 GH water. Since they live in streams, the water parameters > change > throughout the year based on rainfall, etc., so they DO NOT live in super > hard, very high pH water all year round... only during certain periods. > > Other than your Mbuna cichlids, I'm not sure how many "algae eater" type > fish you will find that like your water. Most of the true algae eating > fish > come from softer, lower pH waters than what you have. > > I decided to do some Googling for - hard water algae eater aquarium - and > found this... > > 7. Nerite Snails (from > http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php>) > These snails (Neritina spp.) are among the most beautiful available in the > aquarium trade these days. It is not just the beauty of their shell > patterns > that makes them so desirable, but also their appetite for algae. It is > known > that Zebra Neritinas eat the hard to clean Green Spot algae and the > carpet-like Green Beard algae. These snails will not do well for long > in pH > lower than 7 since they need alkaline and hard water conditions to keep > their shells healthy. When reproducing they will often spread hundreds of > hard white eggs all over the decoration and equipment, which can be > difficult to remove. Loaches and some Cichlids will eat these snails. They > grows to about 3 cm. Cover the tank, since Neritinas are known for their > ability to leave the tank. More info about Zebra Nerite Snails can be > found > in the Gallery section. > http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php> > > This LONG article from a Salt Water website has lots of info on Nerite > snails. The reason you will find more info in salt water forums is because > Nerites do better in salt water but can also live in fresh water but will > not breed in fresh water. > http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm > <http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm> > > Here's another long article about Nerite Snails. > http://www.shrimpdiaries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning- > <http://www.shrimpdiaries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning-> > green-algae-tanks/ > OR http://tinyurl.com/ylp8992 <http://tinyurl.com/ylp8992> > > Other searching found this thread on PlecoFanatics.com and they never did > come to a consensus of any plecos that do well long term in hard, high pH > water. > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177 > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177> > > This article from a site I consider pretty reputable, > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm, > <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm,> will give you info on your > Malawi cichlids as well as info about possible algae eaters that will > do OK > with them in the last paragraph. They mention Common Pleco's, which get > really BIG so you would have the same trade-in issue but also the > Ancistrus > sp.... a/k/a Bristle Nose Pleco. As you will see in the above article from > PlecoFanatics, either of these fish will have to be slowly acclimated > over a > several week period to your hard water. If you get either of these fish, > acclimate them first to a tank with around 7.0 pH water (which you'll have > to mix your tap and distilled or other water to get to 7.0) and then > do 10% > PWC's with your tap water once or twice a week until the pH has raised to > your main tank's pH and then you could move the pleco into your main > Malawi > tank. The article does mention keeping CAE's in with Malawi cichlids as > long as you trade them in often since, as CAE's mature, they do not eat as > much algae and instead may go after other fish instead. > > Maybe Donna R. will chime in with other thoughts or you could search > around > on http://Cichlid-Forum.com <http://Cichlid-Forum.com> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Hi Lenny, > I do prefer to have fish that actually "like" my water, but I'm very > limited > in options here, that's why I opened a long thread last week about > changing > your water hardness. btw, if someone was wondering on what I have decided > about that, I have a multiple steps plan (changing the shell gravel with > pure gravel, testing all the rocks to eliminate the limestones, trying and > testing different pieces of driftwood, and finally giving a thought about > that expensive RO system and see how much will it cost here and how > practical will it be to use it for PWCs). > > Back to the Algae eater, as I said I'm limited in options, I thought > the CAE > suits my conditions, other than the size, as I was apparently looking > into a > different CAE profile from what you were looking at. I don't know which is > more reliable. > > http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/10005 > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/10005> > 6.asp > here it says : pH 6-8.4 , Hardness 5-25 , Temp 74-82 That's how > assumed that > my water quality is not pointing to heaven away from the preferred > condition > of the CAE :) > > Anyway, I'll keep looking for algae eaters that most sites "agree" are > suitable for me, again, other than the size which is solved by exchanging > fish, or giving them away if necessary. > > Thanks for your help > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Your pH and hardness levels are at the upper end of what CAE's have been > found in, in the wild... and actually even higher than the highest pH that > they are found in the wild. Since pH is a logarithmic scale a difference > of > one pH unit is equivalent to a ten-fold difference in hydrogen ion > concentration. This means that an 8.0 pH is 10 times higher than 7.0 and > 100 times higher than 6.0. It's not just a little different. > > There *preferred* levels are in brackets, which means your pH is MUCH > higher > than what they prefer, a full point on the pH scale from 7.2 and even > higher > than their highest level of 8.0 in the wild. > > Mongabay says: Water chemistry: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 5-20 dH (10), 75-82°F > (24-28°C) > > Since you only plan to keep it short term, it may do OK but it would > probably like to be in a different kind of water (lower pH) if it had a > choice. > > They are often found in gravel bottomed streams in the wild so this likely > is a reason for the broad range of pH levels in the wild as the pH of the > water will change depending on the type of bottom area that it is flowing > over. Remember that in the wild, when a fish is temporarily in water that > it may not prefer (higher or lower temp, higher or lower pH, etc.), it can > usually swim to another area of water that it does prefer. They can't do > this in our aquariums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Ray and Lenny, Hi! > In a reply to Ray,I don't have a real Algae problem, as my nitrates are > often 10-25 with sometimes 50 (when let the week pass without my 2 PWCs). > But I like the way my CAE cleans the surfaces of the 20G, especially where > my magnet scrubber can't reach. I'm wondering if the Mbunas will actually > "clean" the rocks, and not only eat the algae thread leaving their > "source" > untouched in an unpleasant scene. > > The "aggression" issue was what I was actually inquiring about, I usually > don't keep my Golden CAEs until they're longer than 3-3.5", which makes a > great deal for both me and the LFS, assuming that the CAE will be sold to > be > re-homed in an appropriate tank's size. > So, keeping in mind that the CAE won't stay here until it's longer than > 3.5", do you think that a 2-3" CAE will show aggression towards other fish > "Malawi Cichlids here"? I was actually expecting a reply that the Mbunas > are > the ones who will likely start the aggression, not just sit and wait until > they are attacked themselves. > > Finally, I was looking at the CAE profiles, and found out that my tanks > parameters are not the "ideal" ones for this species, but they are not > that > far away from it (maybe?). The 20G parameters during last year ranged in > these numbers, as my "fisheis paper notebook" shows: > > pH 8-8.2-8.4 (often 8.2) > GH 10-15 (often the color is closer to10) KH 12 - 16 (often closer to16) > > There are not parameters for the 28G new cichlid tank, as it's not cycled > yet. But I don't think the parameters will be different, as these numbers > are very close to my tap water's parameters. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:48 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" > long so they're not really compatible with your situation. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> > > Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your > smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae > themselves. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php> > > First paragraph from above link... > > "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the > hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna > have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the > proteins > and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates > use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with > only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good > idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows > them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing > this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." > > With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire day > but > rather skip a meal from time to time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Hi, > Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If > yes, > is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? > BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I > was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of > AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of > eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock > with > the CAE choice until further notice! > > Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47369	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: help - about non-native fish

I am looking for a particular webpage and someone MIGHT be able to help me on this list as I have not been able to find it. I got it from this group I do believe. I have developed a fascination with populations of tropical fish that have been dumped, etc. that have been found in the US waterways aka non native fish. NOT THAT I AM in favor of doing this but I found the reading interesting. Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47370	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Ram babies at nine weeks

I'm not sure I can call them babies anymore, but here are four new pictures in new photos. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47371	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

I would still call them or send them an email. A year is a LONG time. AFIK, it's no major issue to change over from chlorine to chloramine disinfection. It's just a matter of changing the chemical that goes into the dispenser and adjusting the dosage valve. Maybe some other minor retrofitting is required but I can't imagine it's very much or more cities would have resisted making the change. Further, the below website snip says that chloramine is cheaper than the other EPA approved disinfectants. Chlorine is no longer EPA approved. In the past, utility companies changed over on a regular basis, at will, without ever telling anyone and it was usually the fish keepers that first noticed the problem when their fish started dying or suffering from respiratory issues since many of the dechlor products in use back then did not treat chloramines. I tried to find definitive info on what it takes for a utility to convert from chlorine to chloramine but couldn't find anything definite. I did find this site and this next snip. http://www.chloramine.org/ (Citizens Concerned About Chloramine) On February 2, 2004, without any public discussion or consent and without adequate notification, chloramine, (a combination of chlorine and ammonia) was added to the Hetch Hetchy water supply by the San Francisco Public Utilities Commission (SFPUC). (The SFPUC distributes water to the San Francisco peninsula, from San Francisco in the North to Sunnyvale in the South.) Chloramine replaced chlorine, a long-used, well-tolerated and extensively studied water disinfectant. The SFPUC claims that chloramine is more effective than chlorine in getting rid of pathogens and lowering possible carcinogens in the water, i.e. trihalomethanes. Although the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) now requires utilities like the SFPUC to lower the levels of trihalomethanes, the EPA never mandated the use of chloramine. There are other alternatives. Chloramine is an attractive choice because it is easy to make and one of the least expensive disinfectants in a list of 15 EPA options. (END SNIP) Remember that the above group is out of the San Francisco Bay Area of California so consider their political persuasion before believing everything on their site. (No offense Mike Deenerz! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? I emailed them last year already and spoke to the manager in charge, not sure if you remember all that. I'm gonna try not to snap, it's been "one of those days" LOL. I can email them again and see if they've done any changes, but with how our city is run, I highly doubt they've spent ANY money on fixing what they already do ;) LOL. Now if it was free to change it; they would have already gone and changed it all ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You might want to call them. If you look at my blog article about > "Chlorine > - Chloramine Information" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information. > html, > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information > .html,> you'll see that my local water report only lists chlorine > content and doesn't mention chloramine at all but after I emailed > them, they explained that the EPA/DEQ only requires them to list the > chlorine level so they don't even bother to mention the > ammonia/chloramine level in the water. > > Baseline testing your water again, after adding a dechlor, to see if > there is an ammonia reading of around 0.5ppm, will usually confirm if > chloramine is now being used. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:15 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > I checked the water report for last year, it hadn't changed (yet), > they still say they are planning to add ammonia to the system this > year > (2010) but it doesn't say when. > The water conditioner I was using was made by Wardley's, I won't do > another PWC without water conditioner that I know works. I was using > an API brand (stress coat) before, but was trying to find something in > town that takes care of both heavy metals and chlorine without adding > anything else (I don't think fish need aloe). > And yes my pH in the 125 gallon tank is 7, in my 55 gallon it's > usually just a tad higher at 7.1-7.2. It's easier to keep the GH up in > the 55 gallon, in the 125 gallon the plants use up the GH faster, and > with the HOB now gone I had to move my crushed coral into the rena xp > 4. I'm going to rearrange a little in the eheim and add a little > crushed coral to that filter as well to keep the GH stable. > I will check the date on the wardley's water conditioner really quick. > I could not find any expiration date on the bottle anywhere. I used it > per the instructions which say use 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of > water change. It's supposed to treat chlorine and chloramine only (no > heavy metals). I suppose it's possible that I could have slightly > overdosed or under dosed, but not drastically, since I use the python > to remove water and don't measure the amount of water I take out > exactly. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Double check with them. They have been known to just switch over > > without warning folks since they don't have to according to the EPA/DEQ. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:43 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > > > My water company only uses chlorine right now, they have a plan to > > add ammonia to the water supply but that's in the future, they > > haven't changed that yet. > > I increased the water flow as much as possible and lowered the water > > level so that the canister filters are pushing water at the surface. > > > > Amber > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > iI would increase the aeration as much as reasonably possible. > > > > > > I know Amquel Plus depletes or utilizes the oxygen which limits > > > what is available to the fish, if this brand does something > > > similar you may want to increase that surface agitation. > > > > > > Or... > > > > > > The emergency brand may not take care of Chloramines and you may > > > have them in your water. In which case you need to deal with the > > > Chloramines ASAP. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:26 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > > > > > I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both > > > chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the > > > grocery store that does not take care of heavy metals. > > > Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be > > > "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts > > > and a couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly > > > affected, when the lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his > > > mouth at the surface (looking up), gasping for air. There is > > > plenty of circulation and also a bubble wand in the tank. > > > Nitrate = 10 ppm > > > Nitrite = 0 > > > Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 > > > ppm at most > > > > > > I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. > > > Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's > > > on the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was > > > running my fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the > > > intakes of the canister filters to help increase oxygen if that > > > may be low > > somehow... > > > but there should be plenty of water movement. > > > If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's > > > been over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad > > > there's not a test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is > > > there? lol If I've been using another water conditioner for > > > removing just chlorine and the LFS finally gets more of the right > > > water conditioner in stock, should I dose the tank for the missed > > > PWC's > or do > something different? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47372	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: help - about non-native fish

Yeah, we've discussed this often out here. If you want to find the old threads, I suggest using an Advanced Google Search and typing in "non-native" in the search word section and then down near the bottom, enter the website to search as - yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife - and this will find every post in AquaticLife that talks about "non-native". Here are some links I have in my Favorites folder. http://www.myfwc.com/WILDLIFEHABITATS/Nonnative_FW_Prohibited.htm http://nis.gsmfc.org/introduction.shtm TinyURL for the next link: http://tinyurl.com/yjdvzbe This BIG database is sortable in many ways so my link is saved for one of the sortings that I did. The link below the LONG link that will likely be broken is to the main website for the database. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.aspx?State=&County=&Group=Fishes& Genus=&Species=&ComName=&Status=&FMB=&pathway=&Sortby=%5BGroup%5D,Genus,Spec ies,SubSpecies&Size=50&nativeexotic=&HUCNumber=&Page=1 http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/default.aspx http://www.nisbase.org/nisbase/index.jsp And then there is NANFA, North American Native Fish Association, which has it's own website and forums here... http://www.nanfa.org/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Rattie Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:47 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] help - about non-native fish I am looking for a particular webpage and someone MIGHT be able to help me on this list as I have not been able to find it. I got it from this group I do believe. I have developed a fascination with populations of tropical fish that have been dumped, etc. that have been found in the US waterways aka non native fish. NOT THAT I AM in favor of doing this but I found the reading interesting. Richard

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47373	From: harry perry	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks/Lainey

Nice job, they're growing great. Harry --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 5:56 PM   I'm not sure I can call them babies anymore, but here are four new pictures in new photos. Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47374	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well with mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have exited one way or another. The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a 20G with mbuna I’d say, is a bristlenose pleco. I’ve had about 60/40 success ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, and if they get carried away “tasting” them, well, you can imagine. IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite marks in it. They don’t make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE AquariumLife.net is usually pretty good for profiles but they are not the best source and never a first source for me unless they are the only site with a profile on a species, which is doubtful. I do trust most of what they say and I even used many of their profiles as a starting point for building my Life Span article http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans> com/Fish-Lifespans for our fish but many of their lifespans were also incorrect. That said, I would rely on Fishbase.org's profiles (which most of Mongabay's profiles are based on, except they put the Fishbase info into more coherent and easier to read format since Fishbase has info contained in MANY different links on each of their profiles. Fishbase.org is the ONLY internet site that I know of that ONLY has true scientific data on their profiles, not subject to interpretations, theories or changes from amateur home aquarium hobbyists. For example, when you see a link for Diet on Fishbase, the diet is based on several dissections of wild caught fish and examinations of their stomach contents to see what they actually eat in the wild. The top four sites I use for profiles are http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com (or http://www.mongabay <http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm> .com/search.htm and put a bullet in the Advanced section for Mongabay Fish), http://www.TheKrib. <http://www.TheKrib.com,> com, http://www.BadmansT <http://www.BadmansTropicalfish.com> ropicalfish.com and then use http://www.Fishbase <http://www.Fishbase.org> .org to verify things if these three sites give contradictory information. Remember what I said earlier, that while CAE's may be found in very hard, high pH water at times, according to Mongabay, they are mostly found in 7.2 pH and 10 GH water. Since they live in streams, the water parameters change throughout the year based on rainfall, etc., so they DO NOT live in super hard, very high pH water all year round... only during certain periods. Other than your Mbuna cichlids, I'm not sure how many "algae eater" type fish you will find that like your water. Most of the true algae eating fish come from softer, lower pH waters than what you have. I decided to do some Googling for - hard water algae eater aquarium - and found this... 7. Nerite Snails (from http://www.aquahobb <http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php> y.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php) These snails (Neritina spp.) are among the most beautiful available in the aquarium trade these days. It is not just the beauty of their shell patterns that makes them so desirable, but also their appetite for algae. It is known that Zebra Neritinas eat the hard to clean Green Spot algae and the carpet-like Green Beard algae. These snails will not do well for long in pH lower than 7 since they need alkaline and hard water conditions to keep their shells healthy. When reproducing they will often spread hundreds of hard white eggs all over the decoration and equipment, which can be difficult to remove. Loaches and some Cichlids will eat these snails. They grows to about 3 cm. Cover the tank, since Neritinas are known for their ability to leave the tank. More info about Zebra Nerite Snails can be found in the Gallery section. http://www.aquahobb <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php> y.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php This LONG article from a Salt Water website has lots of info on Nerite snails. The reason you will find more info in salt water forums is because Nerites do better in salt water but can also live in fresh water but will not breed in fresh water. http://www.advanced <http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm> aquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm Here's another long article about Nerite Snails. http://www.shrimpdi <http://www.shrimpdiaries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning -> aries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning- green-algae-tanks/ OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/ylp8992> com/ylp8992 Other searching found this thread on PlecoFanatics.com and they never did come to a consensus of any plecos that do well long term in hard, high pH water. http://www.plecofan <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177> atics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177 This article from a site I consider pretty reputable, http://www.thetropi <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm,> caltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm, will give you info on your Malawi cichlids as well as info about possible algae eaters that will do OK with them in the last paragraph. They mention Common Pleco's, which get really BIG so you would have the same trade-in issue but also the Ancistrus sp.... a/k/a Bristle Nose Pleco. As you will see in the above article from PlecoFanatics, either of these fish will have to be slowly acclimated over a several week period to your hard water. If you get either of these fish, acclimate them first to a tank with around 7.0 pH water (which you'll have to mix your tap and distilled or other water to get to 7.0) and then do 10% PWC's with your tap water once or twice a week until the pH has raised to your main tank's pH and then you could move the pleco into your main Malawi tank. The article does mention keeping CAE's in with Malawi cichlids as long as you trade them in often since, as CAE's mature, they do not eat as much algae and instead may go after other fish instead. Maybe Donna R. will chime in with other thoughts or you could search around on http://Cichlid- <http://Cichlid-Forum.com> Forum.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:19 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi Lenny, I do prefer to have fish that actually "like" my water, but I'm very limited in options here, that's why I opened a long thread last week about changing your water hardness. btw, if someone was wondering on what I have decided about that, I have a multiple steps plan (changing the shell gravel with pure gravel, testing all the rocks to eliminate the limestones, trying and testing different pieces of driftwood, and finally giving a thought about that expensive RO system and see how much will it cost here and how practical will it be to use it for PWCs). Back to the Algae eater, as I said I'm limited in options, I thought the CAE suits my conditions, other than the size, as I was apparently looking into a different CAE profile from what you were looking at. I don't know which is more reliable. http://www.aquarium <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/1000 5> life.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/10005 6.asp here it says : pH 6-8.4 , Hardness 5-25 , Temp 74-82 That's how assumed that my water quality is not pointing to heaven away from the preferred condition of the CAE :) Anyway, I'll keep looking for algae eaters that most sites "agree" are suitable for me, again, other than the size which is solved by exchanging fish, or giving them away if necessary. Thanks for your help Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:44 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE Your pH and hardness levels are at the upper end of what CAE's have been found in, in the wild... and actually even higher than the highest pH that they are found in the wild. Since pH is a logarithmic scale a difference of one pH unit is equivalent to a ten-fold difference in hydrogen ion concentration. This means that an 8.0 pH is 10 times higher than 7.0 and 100 times higher than 6.0. It's not just a little different. There *preferred* levels are in brackets, which means your pH is MUCH higher than what they prefer, a full point on the pH scale from 7.2 and even higher than their highest level of 8.0 in the wild. Mongabay says: Water chemistry: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 5-20 dH (10), 75-82°F (24-28°C) Since you only plan to keep it short term, it may do OK but it would probably like to be in a different kind of water (lower pH) if it had a choice. They are often found in gravel bottomed streams in the wild so this likely is a reason for the broad range of pH levels in the wild as the pH of the water will change depending on the type of bottom area that it is flowing over. Remember that in the wild, when a fish is temporarily in water that it may not prefer (higher or lower temp, higher or lower pH, etc.), it can usually swim to another area of water that it does prefer. They can't do this in our aquariums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Ray and Lenny, Hi! In a reply to Ray,I don't have a real Algae problem, as my nitrates are often 10-25 with sometimes 50 (when let the week pass without my 2 PWCs). But I like the way my CAE cleans the surfaces of the 20G, especially where my magnet scrubber can't reach. I'm wondering if the Mbunas will actually "clean" the rocks, and not only eat the algae thread leaving their "source" untouched in an unpleasant scene. The "aggression" issue was what I was actually inquiring about, I usually don't keep my Golden CAEs until they're longer than 3-3.5", which makes a great deal for both me and the LFS, assuming that the CAE will be sold to be re-homed in an appropriate tank's size. So, keeping in mind that the CAE won't stay here until it's longer than 3.5", do you think that a 2-3" CAE will show aggression towards other fish "Malawi Cichlids here"? I was actually expecting a reply that the Mbunas are the ones who will likely start the aggression, not just sit and wait until they are attacked themselves. Finally, I was looking at the CAE profiles, and found out that my tanks parameters are not the "ideal" ones for this species, but they are not that far away from it (maybe?). The 20G parameters during last year ranged in these numbers, as my "fisheis paper notebook" shows: pH 8-8.2-8.4 (often 8.2) GH 10-15 (often the color is closer to10) KH 12 - 16 (often closer to16) There are not parameters for the 28G new cichlid tank, as it's not cycled yet. But I don't think the parameters will be different, as these numbers are very close to my tap water's parameters. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" long so they're not really compatible with your situation. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae themselves. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php> forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php First paragraph from above link... "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the proteins and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire day but rather skip a meal from time to time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi, Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If yes, is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock with the CAE choice until further notice! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47375	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

The eyes or the bristles? If the bristles, then a female might do better. If the eyes, why BN eyes and not other fish eyes... or are they that aggressive towards all other fishes eyes? I agree that the 20G or even the planned 34g or 38G (I forget which one she has planned) will not be the best situation for either the cichlids or anything else in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well with mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have exited one way or another. The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a 20G with mbuna I’d say, is a bristlenose pleco. I’ve had about 60/40 success ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, and if they get carried away “tasting” them, well, you can imagine. IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite marks in it. They don’t make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE AquariumLife.net is usually pretty good for profiles but they are not the best source and never a first source for me unless they are the only site with a profile on a species, which is doubtful. I do trust most of what they say and I even used many of their profiles as a starting point for building my Life Span article http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans> com/Fish-Lifespans for our fish but many of their lifespans were also incorrect. That said, I would rely on Fishbase.org's profiles (which most of Mongabay's profiles are based on, except they put the Fishbase info into more coherent and easier to read format since Fishbase has info contained in MANY different links on each of their profiles. Fishbase.org is the ONLY internet site that I know of that ONLY has true scientific data on their profiles, not subject to interpretations, theories or changes from amateur home aquarium hobbyists. For example, when you see a link for Diet on Fishbase, the diet is based on several dissections of wild caught fish and examinations of their stomach contents to see what they actually eat in the wild. The top four sites I use for profiles are http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com (or http://www.mongabay <http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm> .com/search.htm and put a bullet in the Advanced section for Mongabay Fish), http://www.TheKrib. <http://www.TheKrib.com,> com, http://www.BadmansT <http://www.BadmansTropicalfish.com> ropicalfish.com and then use http://www.Fishbase <http://www.Fishbase.org> .org to verify things if these three sites give contradictory information. Remember what I said earlier, that while CAE's may be found in very hard, high pH water at times, according to Mongabay, they are mostly found in 7.2 pH and 10 GH water. Since they live in streams, the water parameters change throughout the year based on rainfall, etc., so they DO NOT live in super hard, very high pH water all year round... only during certain periods. Other than your Mbuna cichlids, I'm not sure how many "algae eater" type fish you will find that like your water. Most of the true algae eating fish come from softer, lower pH waters than what you have. I decided to do some Googling for - hard water algae eater aquarium - and found this... 7. Nerite Snails (from http://www.aquahobb <http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php> y.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php) These snails (Neritina spp.) are among the most beautiful available in the aquarium trade these days. It is not just the beauty of their shell patterns that makes them so desirable, but also their appetite for algae. It is known that Zebra Neritinas eat the hard to clean Green Spot algae and the carpet-like Green Beard algae. These snails will not do well for long in pH lower than 7 since they need alkaline and hard water conditions to keep their shells healthy. When reproducing they will often spread hundreds of hard white eggs all over the decoration and equipment, which can be difficult to remove. Loaches and some Cichlids will eat these snails. They grows to about 3 cm. Cover the tank, since Neritinas are known for their ability to leave the tank. More info about Zebra Nerite Snails can be found in the Gallery section. http://www.aquahobb <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php> y.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php This LONG article from a Salt Water website has lots of info on Nerite snails. The reason you will find more info in salt water forums is because Nerites do better in salt water but can also live in fresh water but will not breed in fresh water. http://www.advanced <http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm> aquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm Here's another long article about Nerite Snails. http://www.shrimpdi <http://www.shrimpdiaries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning -> aries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning- green-algae-tanks/ OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/ylp8992> com/ylp8992 Other searching found this thread on PlecoFanatics.com and they never did come to a consensus of any plecos that do well long term in hard, high pH water. http://www.plecofan <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177> atics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177 This article from a site I consider pretty reputable, http://www.thetropi <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm,> caltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm, will give you info on your Malawi cichlids as well as info about possible algae eaters that will do OK with them in the last paragraph. They mention Common Pleco's, which get really BIG so you would have the same trade-in issue but also the Ancistrus sp.... a/k/a Bristle Nose Pleco. As you will see in the above article from PlecoFanatics, either of these fish will have to be slowly acclimated over a several week period to your hard water. If you get either of these fish, acclimate them first to a tank with around 7.0 pH water (which you'll have to mix your tap and distilled or other water to get to 7.0) and then do 10% PWC's with your tap water once or twice a week until the pH has raised to your main tank's pH and then you could move the pleco into your main Malawi tank. The article does mention keeping CAE's in with Malawi cichlids as long as you trade them in often since, as CAE's mature, they do not eat as much algae and instead may go after other fish instead. Maybe Donna R. will chime in with other thoughts or you could search around on http://Cichlid- <http://Cichlid-Forum.com> Forum.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:19 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi Lenny, I do prefer to have fish that actually "like" my water, but I'm very limited in options here, that's why I opened a long thread last week about changing your water hardness. btw, if someone was wondering on what I have decided about that, I have a multiple steps plan (changing the shell gravel with pure gravel, testing all the rocks to eliminate the limestones, trying and testing different pieces of driftwood, and finally giving a thought about that expensive RO system and see how much will it cost here and how practical will it be to use it for PWCs). Back to the Algae eater, as I said I'm limited in options, I thought the CAE suits my conditions, other than the size, as I was apparently looking into a different CAE profile from what you were looking at. I don't know which is more reliable. http://www.aquarium <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/1000 5> life.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/10005 6.asp here it says : pH 6-8.4 , Hardness 5-25 , Temp 74-82 That's how assumed that my water quality is not pointing to heaven away from the preferred condition of the CAE :) Anyway, I'll keep looking for algae eaters that most sites "agree" are suitable for me, again, other than the size which is solved by exchanging fish, or giving them away if necessary. Thanks for your help Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:44 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE Your pH and hardness levels are at the upper end of what CAE's have been found in, in the wild... and actually even higher than the highest pH that they are found in the wild. Since pH is a logarithmic scale a difference of one pH unit is equivalent to a ten-fold difference in hydrogen ion concentration. This means that an 8.0 pH is 10 times higher than 7.0 and 100 times higher than 6.0. It's not just a little different. There *preferred* levels are in brackets, which means your pH is MUCH higher than what they prefer, a full point on the pH scale from 7.2 and even higher than their highest level of 8.0 in the wild. Mongabay says: Water chemistry: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 5-20 dH (10), 75-82°F (24-28°C) Since you only plan to keep it short term, it may do OK but it would probably like to be in a different kind of water (lower pH) if it had a choice. They are often found in gravel bottomed streams in the wild so this likely is a reason for the broad range of pH levels in the wild as the pH of the water will change depending on the type of bottom area that it is flowing over. Remember that in the wild, when a fish is temporarily in water that it may not prefer (higher or lower temp, higher or lower pH, etc.), it can usually swim to another area of water that it does prefer. They can't do this in our aquariums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Ray and Lenny, Hi! In a reply to Ray,I don't have a real Algae problem, as my nitrates are often 10-25 with sometimes 50 (when let the week pass without my 2 PWCs). But I like the way my CAE cleans the surfaces of the 20G, especially where my magnet scrubber can't reach. I'm wondering if the Mbunas will actually "clean" the rocks, and not only eat the algae thread leaving their "source" untouched in an unpleasant scene. The "aggression" issue was what I was actually inquiring about, I usually don't keep my Golden CAEs until they're longer than 3-3.5", which makes a great deal for both me and the LFS, assuming that the CAE will be sold to be re-homed in an appropriate tank's size. So, keeping in mind that the CAE won't stay here until it's longer than 3.5", do you think that a 2-3" CAE will show aggression towards other fish "Malawi Cichlids here"? I was actually expecting a reply that the Mbunas are the ones who will likely start the aggression, not just sit and wait until they are attacked themselves. Finally, I was looking at the CAE profiles, and found out that my tanks parameters are not the "ideal" ones for this species, but they are not that far away from it (maybe?). The 20G parameters during last year ranged in these numbers, as my "fisheis paper notebook" shows: pH 8-8.2-8.4 (often 8.2) GH 10-15 (often the color is closer to10) KH 12 - 16 (often closer to16) There are not parameters for the 28G new cichlid tank, as it's not cycled yet. But I don't think the parameters will be different, as these numbers are very close to my tap water's parameters. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" long so they're not really compatible with your situation. http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae themselves. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php> forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php First paragraph from above link... "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the proteins and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire day but rather skip a meal from time to time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi, Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If yes, is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock with the CAE choice until further notice! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47376	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the cart). Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but they are > usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor products. Some BIG pond > owners will buy them for treating thousands of gallons at a time. IMO, > API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best price you will find for a smaller > container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. bottle would last > you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should buy it and time it for > when you are buying something else online, like from > http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> Top > Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly > other sources) is the next best price for me down here. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less than > liquid" LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to see > > what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run are on > > a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not sure if they > > test every water supply or not. > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and lead in > > the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I figured this > > way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat heavy > > metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and would > > therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47377	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

It's probably the little speck of color that's different on the fish and they focus on it. My parrots used to try to preen of my moles for me (very gracious of them huh? LOL). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > The eyes or the bristles? If the bristles, then a female might do better. > If the eyes, why BN eyes and not other fish eyes... or are they that > aggressive towards all other fishes eyes? > > I agree that the 20G or even the planned 34g or 38G (I forget which > one she > has planned) will not be the best situation for either the cichlids or > anything else in the tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, > die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do > well with > mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have > exited one way or another. > > The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for > a 20G > with mbuna I’d say, is a bristlenose pleco. I’ve had about 60/40 success > ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, > and if they get carried away “tasting” them, well, you can imagine. > > IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite > marks in it. They don’t make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > AquariumLife.net is usually pretty good for profiles but they are not the > best source and never a first source for me unless they are the only site > with a profile on a species, which is doubtful. I do trust most of > what they > say and I even used many of their profiles as a starting point for > building > my Life Span article http://tinyurl. > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans > <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans>> com/Fish-Lifespans for our fish > but many > of their lifespans were also incorrect. > > That said, I would rely on Fishbase.org's profiles (which most of > Mongabay's > profiles are based on, except they put the Fishbase info into more > coherent > and easier to read format since Fishbase has info contained in MANY > different links on each of their profiles. Fishbase.org is the ONLY > internet > site that I know of that ONLY has true scientific data on their profiles, > not subject to interpretations, theories or changes from amateur home > aquarium hobbyists. For example, when you see a link for Diet on Fishbase, > the diet is based on several dissections of wild caught fish and > examinations of their stomach contents to see what they actually eat > in the > wild. The top four sites I use for profiles are http://fish. > <http://fish.Mongabay.com <http://fish.Mongabay.com>> Mongabay.com > (or http://www.mongabay <http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm > <http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm>> .com/search.htm > and put a bullet in the Advanced section for Mongabay Fish), > http://www.TheKrib. <http://www.TheKrib.com, > <http://www.TheKrib.com,>> com, http://www.BadmansT > <http://www.BadmansTropicalfish.com > <http://www.BadmansTropicalfish.com>> ropicalfish.com and then use > http://www.Fishbase <http://www.Fishbase.org > <http://www.Fishbase.org>> .org to verify things if these > three sites give contradictory information. > > Remember what I said earlier, that while CAE's may be found in very hard, > high pH water at times, according to Mongabay, they are mostly found > in 7.2 > pH and 10 GH water. Since they live in streams, the water parameters > change > throughout the year based on rainfall, etc., so they DO NOT live in super > hard, very high pH water all year round... only during certain periods. > > Other than your Mbuna cichlids, I'm not sure how many "algae eater" type > fish you will find that like your water. Most of the true algae eating > fish > come from softer, lower pH waters than what you have. > > I decided to do some Googling for - hard water algae eater aquarium - and > found this... > > 7. Nerite Snails (from > http://www.aquahobb > <http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php>> > y.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php) > These snails (Neritina spp.) are among the most beautiful available in the > aquarium trade these days. It is not just the beauty of their shell > patterns > that makes them so desirable, but also their appetite for algae. It is > known > that Zebra Neritinas eat the hard to clean Green Spot algae and the > carpet-like Green Beard algae. These snails will not do well for long > in pH > lower than 7 since they need alkaline and hard water conditions to keep > their shells healthy. When reproducing they will often spread hundreds of > hard white eggs all over the decoration and equipment, which can be > difficult to remove. Loaches and some Cichlids will eat these snails. They > grows to about 3 cm. Cover the tank, since Neritinas are known for their > ability to leave the tank. More info about Zebra Nerite Snails can be > found > in the Gallery section. > http://www.aquahobb > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php > <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php>> > y.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php > > This LONG article from a Salt Water website has lots of info on Nerite > snails. The reason you will find more info in salt water forums is because > Nerites do better in salt water but can also live in fresh water but will > not breed in fresh water. > http://www.advanced > <http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm > <http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm>> > aquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm > > Here's another long article about Nerite Snails. > http://www.shrimpdi > <http://www.shrimpdiaries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning > <http://www.shrimpdiaries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning> > -> aries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning- > green-algae-tanks/ > OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/ylp8992 > <http://tinyurl.com/ylp8992>> com/ylp8992 > > Other searching found this thread on PlecoFanatics.com and they never did > come to a consensus of any plecos that do well long term in hard, high pH > water. > http://www.plecofan > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177 > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177>> > atics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177 > > This article from a site I consider pretty reputable, http://www.thetropi > <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm, > <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm,>> > caltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm, will give you info on your Malawi cichlids > as well > as info about possible algae eaters that will do OK with them in the last > paragraph. They mention Common Pleco's, which get really BIG so you would > have the same trade-in issue but also the Ancistrus sp.... a/k/a Bristle > Nose Pleco. As you will see in the above article from PlecoFanatics, > either > of these fish will have to be slowly acclimated over a several week period > to your hard water. If you get either of these fish, acclimate them > first to > a tank with around 7.0 pH water (which you'll have to mix your tap and > distilled or other water to get to 7.0) and then do 10% PWC's with > your tap > water once or twice a week until the pH has raised to your main tank's pH > and then you could move the pleco into your main Malawi tank. The article > does mention keeping CAE's in with Malawi cichlids as long as you > trade them > in often since, as CAE's mature, they do not eat as much algae and instead > may go after other fish instead. > > Maybe Donna R. will chime in with other thoughts or you could search > around > on http://Cichlid- <http://Cichlid-Forum.com > <http://Cichlid-Forum.com>> Forum.com > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Hi Lenny, > I do prefer to have fish that actually "like" my water, but I'm very > limited > in options here, that's why I opened a long thread last week about > changing > your water hardness. btw, if someone was wondering on what I have decided > about that, I have a multiple steps plan (changing the shell gravel with > pure gravel, testing all the rocks to eliminate the limestones, trying and > testing different pieces of driftwood, and finally giving a thought about > that expensive RO system and see how much will it cost here and how > practical will it be to use it for PWCs). > > Back to the Algae eater, as I said I'm limited in options, I thought > the CAE > suits my conditions, other than the size, as I was apparently looking > into a > different CAE profile from what you were looking at. I don't know which is > more reliable. > > http://www.aquarium > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/1000 > <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/1000> > 5> life.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/10005 > 6.asp > here it says : pH 6-8.4 , Hardness 5-25 , Temp 74-82 That's how > assumed that > my water quality is not pointing to heaven away from the preferred > condition > of the CAE :) > > Anyway, I'll keep looking for algae eaters that most sites "agree" are > suitable for me, again, other than the size which is solved by exchanging > fish, or giving them away if necessary. > > Thanks for your help > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:44 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Your pH and hardness levels are at the upper end of what CAE's have been > found in, in the wild... and actually even higher than the highest pH that > they are found in the wild. Since pH is a logarithmic scale a > difference of > one pH unit is equivalent to a ten-fold difference in hydrogen ion > concentration. This means that an 8.0 pH is 10 times higher than 7.0 > and 100 > times higher than 6.0. It's not just a little different. > > There *preferred* levels are in brackets, which means your pH is MUCH > higher > than what they prefer, a full point on the pH scale from 7.2 and even > higher > than their highest level of 8.0 in the wild. > > Mongabay says: Water chemistry: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 5-20 dH (10), 75-82°F > (24-28°C) > > Since you only plan to keep it short term, it may do OK but it would > probably like to be in a different kind of water (lower pH) if it had a > choice. > > They are often found in gravel bottomed streams in the wild so this likely > is a reason for the broad range of pH levels in the wild as the pH of the > water will change depending on the type of bottom area that it is flowing > over. Remember that in the wild, when a fish is temporarily in water > that it > may not prefer (higher or lower temp, higher or lower pH, etc.), it can > usually swim to another area of water that it does prefer. They can't do > this in our aquariums. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Ray and Lenny, Hi! > In a reply to Ray,I don't have a real Algae problem, as my nitrates are > often 10-25 with sometimes 50 (when let the week pass without my 2 PWCs). > But I like the way my CAE cleans the surfaces of the 20G, especially where > my magnet scrubber can't reach. I'm wondering if the Mbunas will actually > "clean" the rocks, and not only eat the algae thread leaving their > "source" > untouched in an unpleasant scene. > > The "aggression" issue was what I was actually inquiring about, I usually > don't keep my Golden CAEs until they're longer than 3-3.5", which makes a > great deal for both me and the LFS, assuming that the CAE will be sold > to be > re-homed in an appropriate tank's size. > So, keeping in mind that the CAE won't stay here until it's longer than > 3.5", do you think that a 2-3" CAE will show aggression towards other fish > "Malawi Cichlids here"? I was actually expecting a reply that the > Mbunas are > the ones who will likely start the aggression, not just sit and wait until > they are attacked themselves. > > Finally, I was looking at the CAE profiles, and found out that my tanks > parameters are not the "ideal" ones for this species, but they are not > that > far away from it (maybe?). The 20G parameters during last year ranged in > these numbers, as my "fisheis paper notebook" shows: > > pH 8-8.2-8.4 (often 8.2) > GH 10-15 (often the color is closer to10) KH 12 - 16 (often closer to16) > > There are not parameters for the 28G new cichlid tank, as it's not cycled > yet. But I don't think the parameters will be different, as these numbers > are very close to my tap water's parameters. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:48 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" > long so they're not really compatible with your situation. > > http://fish. > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html>> > mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > > Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your > smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae > themselves. > > http://www.cichlid- > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php > <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php>> > forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php > > First paragraph from above link... > > "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the > hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna > have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the > proteins > and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates > use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with > only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good > idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows > them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing > this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." > > With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire > day but > rather skip a meal from time to time. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Hi, > Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If > yes, > is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? > BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I > was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of > AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of > eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock > with > the CAE choice until further notice! > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47378	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. Most of the other products do not list their dosage. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_Dechlor inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idProduct=K M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein skimming. (END SNIP) For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. bottle of API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats 10G". -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the cart). Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but they > are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor products. Some > BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands of gallons at a > time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best price you will find > for a smaller container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, like > from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > best price for me down here. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > than liquid" LOL. > > Amber > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not sure > > if they test every water supply or not. > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and lead > > in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I figured > > this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat heavy > > metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and would > > therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47379	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

how many teaspoons are in a ml? lol, sorry had to ask ;) I'm assuming that Kent marine dechlor is liquid since it's labeled in oz's. I was going to order a gallon of another type of dechlor on there but the shipping was horrible after I added it (it cost more than the dechlor to ship it, so not worth it IMO) lol. That's why I was asking about a powdered dechlor that treats heavy metals. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on sale > for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_Dechlor > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_Dechlor> > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idProduct=K > M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat heavy > metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or marine > aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. Does not > contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein skimming. > (END SNIP) > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > bottle of > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better price > per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API where they > say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats 10G". > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > trying to > order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already placing an order > through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap water conditioner, > only the stress coat (it shows the regular API product online but it's not > in stock if you try to add it to the cart). > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but they > > are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor products. Some > > BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands of gallons at a > > time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best price you will find > > for a smaller container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, like > > from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > best price for me down here. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not sure > > > if they test every water supply or not. > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and lead > > > in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I figured > > > this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat heavy > > > metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and would > > > therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47380	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

What do you think about this product? http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm placing a different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on sale > for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_Dechlor > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_Dechlor> > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idProduct=K > M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat heavy > metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or marine > aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. Does not > contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein skimming. > (END SNIP) > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > bottle of > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better price > per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API where they > say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats 10G". > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > trying to > order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already placing an order > through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap water conditioner, > only the stress coat (it shows the regular API product online but it's not > in stock if you try to add it to the cart). > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but they > > are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor products. Some > > BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands of gallons at a > > time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best price you will find > > for a smaller container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, like > > from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > best price for me down here. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not sure > > > if they test every water supply or not. > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and lead > > > in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I figured > > > this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat heavy > > > metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and would > > > therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47381	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

The eyes. Pleco eyes protrude. I don’t know why they don’t bother the bristles, but I have all females. One of mine that was killed was in a yellow lab fry tank. I think the pleco’s that survive join the tank when all are juveniles, have very shallow hiding places tight to the top and bottom of the fish to protect those eyes and are savvy enough to duck in when the mbuna become too pesky. The last part is probably the deciding factor. The mbuna do nip at anything that protrudes on anyone. Just curious, but once damage has been done then they can’t seem to stop. Yes, people do report finding their pleco next day with sockets instead of eyes, eewwww. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE The eyes or the bristles? If the bristles, then a female might do better. If the eyes, why BN eyes and not other fish eyes... or are they that aggressive towards all other fishes eyes? I agree that the 20G or even the planned 34g or 38G (I forget which one she has planned) will not be the best situation for either the cichlids or anything else in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:06 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well with mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have exited one way or another. The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a 20G with mbuna I’d say, is a bristlenose pleco. I’ve had about 60/40 success ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, and if they get carried away “tasting” them, well, you can imagine. IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite marks in it. They don’t make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. _____ From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE AquariumLife.net is usually pretty good for profiles but they are not the best source and never a first source for me unless they are the only site with a profile on a species, which is doubtful. I do trust most of what they say and I even used many of their profiles as a starting point for building my Life Span article http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Lifespans> com/Fish-Lifespans> com/Fish-Lifespans for our fish but many of their lifespans were also incorrect. That said, I would rely on Fishbase.org's profiles (which most of Mongabay's profiles are based on, except they put the Fishbase info into more coherent and easier to read format since Fishbase has info contained in MANY different links on each of their profiles. Fishbase.org is the ONLY internet site that I know of that ONLY has true scientific data on their profiles, not subject to interpretations, theories or changes from amateur home aquarium hobbyists. For example, when you see a link for Diet on Fishbase, the diet is based on several dissections of wild caught fish and examinations of their stomach contents to see what they actually eat in the wild. The top four sites I use for profiles are http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com> Mongabay.com (or http://www.mongabay <http://www.mongabay <http://www.mongabay.com/search.htm> .com/search.htm> .com/search.htm and put a bullet in the Advanced section for Mongabay Fish), http://www.TheKrib. <http://www.TheKrib. <http://www.TheKrib.com,> com,> com, http://www.BadmansT <http://www.BadmansT <http://www.BadmansTropicalfish.com> ropicalfish.com> ropicalfish.com and then use http://www.Fishbase <http://www.Fishbase <http://www.Fishbase.org> .org> .org to verify things if these three sites give contradictory information. Remember what I said earlier, that while CAE's may be found in very hard, high pH water at times, according to Mongabay, they are mostly found in 7.2 pH and 10 GH water. Since they live in streams, the water parameters change throughout the year based on rainfall, etc., so they DO NOT live in super hard, very high pH water all year round... only during certain periods. Other than your Mbuna cichlids, I'm not sure how many "algae eater" type fish you will find that like your water. Most of the true algae eating fish come from softer, lower pH waters than what you have. I decided to do some Googling for - hard water algae eater aquarium - and found this... 7. Nerite Snails (from http://www.aquahobb <http://www.aquahobb <http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php> y.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php> y.com/articles/e_algae_eaters.php) These snails (Neritina spp.) are among the most beautiful available in the aquarium trade these days. It is not just the beauty of their shell patterns that makes them so desirable, but also their appetite for algae. It is known that Zebra Neritinas eat the hard to clean Green Spot algae and the carpet-like Green Beard algae. These snails will not do well for long in pH lower than 7 since they need alkaline and hard water conditions to keep their shells healthy. When reproducing they will often spread hundreds of hard white eggs all over the decoration and equipment, which can be difficult to remove. Loaches and some Cichlids will eat these snails. They grows to about 3 cm. Cover the tank, since Neritinas are known for their ability to leave the tank. More info about Zebra Nerite Snails can be found in the Gallery section. http://www.aquahobb <http://www.aquahobb <http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php> y.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php> y.com/gallery/e_Neritina_zebra.php This LONG article from a Salt Water website has lots of info on Nerite snails. The reason you will find more info in salt water forums is because Nerites do better in salt water but can also live in fresh water but will not breed in fresh water. http://www.advanced <http://www.advanced <http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm> aquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm> aquarist.com/issues/sept2003/invert.htm Here's another long article about Nerite Snails. http://www.shrimpdi <http://www.shrimpdi <http://www.shrimpdiaries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning > aries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning -> aries.com/the-effectiveness-of-nerite-snails-in-cleaning- green-algae-tanks/ OR http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/ylp8992> com/ylp8992> com/ylp8992 Other searching found this thread on PlecoFanatics.com and they never did come to a consensus of any plecos that do well long term in hard, high pH water. http://www.plecofan <http://www.plecofan <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177> atics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177> atics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7177 This article from a site I consider pretty reputable, http://www.thetropi <http://www.thetropi <http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm,> caltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm,> caltank.co.uk/mbuna3.htm, will give you info on your Malawi cichlids as well as info about possible algae eaters that will do OK with them in the last paragraph. They mention Common Pleco's, which get really BIG so you would have the same trade-in issue but also the Ancistrus sp.... a/k/a Bristle Nose Pleco. As you will see in the above article from PlecoFanatics, either of these fish will have to be slowly acclimated over a several week period to your hard water. If you get either of these fish, acclimate them first to a tank with around 7.0 pH water (which you'll have to mix your tap and distilled or other water to get to 7.0) and then do 10% PWC's with your tap water once or twice a week until the pH has raised to your main tank's pH and then you could move the pleco into your main Malawi tank. The article does mention keeping CAE's in with Malawi cichlids as long as you trade them in often since, as CAE's mature, they do not eat as much algae and instead may go after other fish instead. Maybe Donna R. will chime in with other thoughts or you could search around on http://Cichlid- <http://Cichlid- <http://Cichlid-Forum.com> Forum.com> Forum.com Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:19 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi Lenny, I do prefer to have fish that actually "like" my water, but I'm very limited in options here, that's why I opened a long thread last week about changing your water hardness. btw, if someone was wondering on what I have decided about that, I have a multiple steps plan (changing the shell gravel with pure gravel, testing all the rocks to eliminate the limestones, trying and testing different pieces of driftwood, and finally giving a thought about that expensive RO system and see how much will it cost here and how practical will it be to use it for PWCs). Back to the Algae eater, as I said I'm limited in options, I thought the CAE suits my conditions, other than the size, as I was apparently looking into a different CAE profile from what you were looking at. I don't know which is more reliable. http://www.aquarium <http://www.aquarium <http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/1000 > life.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/1000 5> life.net/profiles/asian-loaches/chinese-algae-eater/10005 6.asp here it says : pH 6-8.4 , Hardness 5-25 , Temp 74-82 That's how assumed that my water quality is not pointing to heaven away from the preferred condition of the CAE :) Anyway, I'll keep looking for algae eaters that most sites "agree" are suitable for me, again, other than the size which is solved by exchanging fish, or giving them away if necessary. Thanks for your help Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:44 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE Your pH and hardness levels are at the upper end of what CAE's have been found in, in the wild... and actually even higher than the highest pH that they are found in the wild. Since pH is a logarithmic scale a difference of one pH unit is equivalent to a ten-fold difference in hydrogen ion concentration. This means that an 8.0 pH is 10 times higher than 7.0 and 100 times higher than 6.0. It's not just a little different. There *preferred* levels are in brackets, which means your pH is MUCH higher than what they prefer, a full point on the pH scale from 7.2 and even higher than their highest level of 8.0 in the wild. Mongabay says: Water chemistry: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 5-20 dH (10), 75-82°F (24-28°C) Since you only plan to keep it short term, it may do OK but it would probably like to be in a different kind of water (lower pH) if it had a choice. They are often found in gravel bottomed streams in the wild so this likely is a reason for the broad range of pH levels in the wild as the pH of the water will change depending on the type of bottom area that it is flowing over. Remember that in the wild, when a fish is temporarily in water that it may not prefer (higher or lower temp, higher or lower pH, etc.), it can usually swim to another area of water that it does prefer. They can't do this in our aquariums. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Ray and Lenny, Hi! In a reply to Ray,I don't have a real Algae problem, as my nitrates are often 10-25 with sometimes 50 (when let the week pass without my 2 PWCs). But I like the way my CAE cleans the surfaces of the 20G, especially where my magnet scrubber can't reach. I'm wondering if the Mbunas will actually "clean" the rocks, and not only eat the algae thread leaving their "source" untouched in an unpleasant scene. The "aggression" issue was what I was actually inquiring about, I usually don't keep my Golden CAEs until they're longer than 3-3.5", which makes a great deal for both me and the LFS, assuming that the CAE will be sold to be re-homed in an appropriate tank's size. So, keeping in mind that the CAE won't stay here until it's longer than 3.5", do you think that a 2-3" CAE will show aggression towards other fish "Malawi Cichlids here"? I was actually expecting a reply that the Mbunas are the ones who will likely start the aggression, not just sit and wait until they are attacked themselves. Finally, I was looking at the CAE profiles, and found out that my tanks parameters are not the "ideal" ones for this species, but they are not that far away from it (maybe?). The 20G parameters during last year ranged in these numbers, as my "fisheis paper notebook" shows: pH 8-8.2-8.4 (often 8.2) GH 10-15 (often the color is closer to10) KH 12 - 16 (often closer to16) There are not parameters for the 28G new cichlid tank, as it's not cycled yet. But I don't think the parameters will be different, as these numbers are very close to my tap water's parameters. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:48 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE CAE's don't really like your very hard, high pH water and they grow to 11" long so they're not really compatible with your situation. http://fish. <http://fish. <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Malawi Mbuna cichlids will graze on algae so if you cut back on your smorgasbord of food a little, they will likely start to eat the algae themselves. http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid- <http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php> forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php> forum.com/articles/feeding_mbuna.php First paragraph from above link... "Foremost, Mbuna are algae-grazing cichlids. In the wild, they spend the hours of the day scraping algae found covering the rocky substrate. Mbuna have long intestines (4x their body length) designed to extract the proteins and carbohydrates from the hard-to-digest algae. Cows and other ungulates use several stomachs to digest grass. Mbuna, on the other hand, do it with only one stomach and a very long intestine. For this reason, it is a good idea to occasionally fast your fish (give them a day off) as this allows them to purge their intestines on a regular basis. Use caution when doing this because hungry Cichlids are aggressive cichlids." With yours being juvis, I probably wouldn't fast them for an entire day but rather skip a meal from time to time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:35 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi, Can I put a 2" CAE (Chinese Algae Eater) in a Malawi Cichlids tank? If yes, is it OK to keep the CAE when the Cichlids become adults? BTW, I didn't find a SAE anywhere , and I've been serching for it since I was advised to put it in my 20G community tank by you - members of AquaticLife. I could neither find Cherry Shrimp for the same purpose of eating Algae off the glass, driftwood, and rocks. So I guess I'm stock with the CAE choice until further notice! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife- <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47382	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

Their search function seems a little buggy on amazon, I'm now finding other API products when I didn't the first search, lol. Does it matter if I buy the pond version versus the aquarium dechlor? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on sale > for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_Dechlor > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_Dechlor> > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idProduct=K > M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat heavy > metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or marine > aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. Does not > contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein skimming. > (END SNIP) > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > bottle of > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better price > per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API where they > say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats 10G". > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > trying to > order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already placing an order > through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap water conditioner, > only the stress coat (it shows the regular API product online but it's not > in stock if you try to add it to the cart). > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but they > > are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor products. Some > > BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands of gallons at a > > time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best price you will find > > for a smaller container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, like > > from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > best price for me down here. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not sure > > > if they test every water supply or not. > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and lead > > > in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I figured > > > this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat heavy > > > metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and would > > > therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47383	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in water or cycling filters?

I emailed again asking if there's been any changes to our water (including implementing the changes they are planning). Will keep you posted if they've done anything. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I would still call them or send them an email. A year is a LONG time. > > AFIK, it's no major issue to change over from chlorine to chloramine > disinfection. It's just a matter of changing the chemical that goes into > the dispenser and adjusting the dosage valve. Maybe some other minor > retrofitting is required but I can't imagine it's very much or more cities > would have resisted making the change. Further, the below website snip > says > that chloramine is cheaper than the other EPA approved disinfectants. > Chlorine is no longer EPA approved. > > In the past, utility companies changed over on a regular basis, at will, > without ever telling anyone and it was usually the fish keepers that first > noticed the problem when their fish started dying or suffering from > respiratory issues since many of the dechlor products in use back then did > not treat chloramines. > > I tried to find definitive info on what it takes for a utility to convert > from chlorine to chloramine but couldn't find anything definite. I did > find > this site and this next snip. > > http://www.chloramine.org/ <http://www.chloramine.org/> (Citizens > Concerned About Chloramine) > > On February 2, 2004, without any public discussion or consent and without > adequate notification, chloramine, (a combination of chlorine and ammonia) > was added to the Hetch Hetchy water supply by the San Francisco Public > Utilities Commission (SFPUC). (The SFPUC distributes water to the San > Francisco peninsula, from San Francisco in the North to Sunnyvale in the > South.) Chloramine replaced chlorine, a long-used, well-tolerated and > extensively studied water disinfectant. > > The SFPUC claims that chloramine is more effective than chlorine in > getting > rid of pathogens and lowering possible carcinogens in the water, i.e. > trihalomethanes. Although the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) now > requires utilities like the SFPUC to lower the levels of trihalomethanes, > the EPA never mandated the use of chloramine. There are other > alternatives. > Chloramine is an attractive choice because it is easy to make and one > of the > least expensive disinfectants in a list of 15 EPA options. > (END SNIP) > > Remember that the above group is out of the San Francisco Bay Area of > California so consider their political persuasion before believing > everything on their site. (No offense Mike Deenerz! LOL) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > I emailed them last year already and spoke to the manager in charge, not > sure if you remember all that. I'm gonna try not to snap, it's been > "one of > those days" LOL. > I can email them again and see if they've done any changes, but with > how our > city is run, I highly doubt they've spent ANY money on fixing what they > already do ;) LOL. > Now if it was free to change it; they would have already gone and > changed it > all ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > You might want to call them. If you look at my blog article about > > "Chlorine > > - Chloramine Information" > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information.> > > html, > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/chlorine-chloramine-information> > > .html,> you'll see that my local water report only lists chlorine > > content and doesn't mention chloramine at all but after I emailed > > them, they explained that the EPA/DEQ only requires them to list the > > chlorine level so they don't even bother to mention the > > ammonia/chloramine level in the water. > > > > Baseline testing your water again, after adding a dechlor, to see if > > there is an ammonia reading of around 0.5ppm, will usually confirm if > > chloramine is now being used. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > > > I checked the water report for last year, it hadn't changed (yet), > > they still say they are planning to add ammonia to the system this > > year > > (2010) but it doesn't say when. > > The water conditioner I was using was made by Wardley's, I won't do > > another PWC without water conditioner that I know works. I was using > > an API brand (stress coat) before, but was trying to find something in > > town that takes care of both heavy metals and chlorine without adding > > anything else (I don't think fish need aloe). > > And yes my pH in the 125 gallon tank is 7, in my 55 gallon it's > > usually just a tad higher at 7.1-7.2. It's easier to keep the GH up in > > the 55 gallon, in the 125 gallon the plants use up the GH faster, and > > with the HOB now gone I had to move my crushed coral into the rena xp > > 4. I'm going to rearrange a little in the eheim and add a little > > crushed coral to that filter as well to keep the GH stable. > > I will check the date on the wardley's water conditioner really quick. > > I could not find any expiration date on the bottle anywhere. I used it > > per the instructions which say use 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of > > water change. It's supposed to treat chlorine and chloramine only (no > > heavy metals). I suppose it's possible that I could have slightly > > overdosed or under dosed, but not drastically, since I use the python > > to remove water and don't measure the amount of water I take out > > exactly. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Double check with them. They have been known to just switch over > > > without warning folks since they don't have to according to the > EPA/DEQ. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:43 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > > > > > My water company only uses chlorine right now, they have a plan to > > > add ammonia to the water supply but that's in the future, they > > > haven't changed that yet. > > > I increased the water flow as much as possible and lowered the water > > > level so that the canister filters are pushing water at the surface. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > iI would increase the aeration as much as reasonably possible. > > > > > > > > I know Amquel Plus depletes or utilizes the oxygen which limits > > > > what is available to the fish, if this brand does something > > > > similar you may want to increase that surface agitation. > > > > > > > > Or... > > > > > > > > The emergency brand may not take care of Chloramines and you may > > > > have them in your water. In which case you need to deal with the > > > > Chloramines ASAP. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 6:26 pm > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heavy metals in water or cycling filters? > > > > > > > > I ran out of my normal water conditioner that takes care of both > > > > chlorine and heavy metals, I used an emergency brand from the > > > > grocery store that does not take care of heavy metals. > > > > Would this cause fish to hover near the surface and appear to be > > > > "breathing" heavily? I've also lost a couple of bleeding hearts > > > > and a couple platy's/guppy's. My severum seems to be badly > > > > affected, when the lights go out at night "he" is hanging with his > > > > mouth at the surface (looking up), gasping for air. There is > > > > plenty of circulation and also a bubble wand in the tank. > > > > Nitrate = 10 ppm > > > > Nitrite = 0 > > > > Ammonia = Looked every so slightly tinted green, so possibly .5 > > > > ppm at most > > > > > > > > I have cleaned both filters this weekend and did a PWC like normal. > > > > Also I must mention that a little over a week ago one of the HOB's > > > > on the tank died suddenly, and I also lost a powerhead that was > > > > running my fluidized bed filter. I also removed the covers on the > > > > intakes of the canister filters to help increase oxygen if that > > > > may be low > > > somehow... > > > > but there should be plenty of water movement. > > > > If my tank is in a cycle wouldn't I see nitrite's by now if it's > > > > been over a week since I lost the HOB's cycled media? Too bad > > > > there's not a test for heavy metals that you can buy cheap, or is > > > > there? lol If I've been using another water conditioner for > > > > removing just chlorine and the LFS finally gets more of the right > > > > water conditioner in stock, should I dose the tank for the missed > > > > PWC's > > or do > > something different? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47384	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: help - about non-native fish

Not that many, because most can't make it here. There was somethign about gambusia, but they were actually native fish. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Rattie" <rick2646@...> To: <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:47 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] help - about non-native fish I am looking for a particular webpage and someone MIGHT be able to help me on this list as I have not been able to find it. I got it from this group I do believe. I have developed a fascination with populations of tropical fish that have been dumped, etc. that have been found in the US waterways aka non native fish. NOT THAT I AM in favor of doing this but I found the reading interesting. Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47385	From: Richard Rattie	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: help - about non-native fish

THANK YOU The link I was looking for was the third one! Yeah, we've discussed this often out here. If you want to find the old threads, I suggest using an Advanced Google Search and typing in "non-native" in the search word section and then down near the bottom, enter the website to search as - yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife - and this will find every post in AquaticLife that talks about "non-native". Here are some links I have in my Favorites folder. http://www.myfwc.com/WILDLIFEHABITATS/Nonnative_FW_Prohibited.htm http://nis.gsmfc.org/introduction.shtm TinyURL for the next link: http://tinyurl.com/yjdvzbe This BIG database is sortable in many ways so my link is saved for one of the sortings that I did. The link below the LONG link that will likely be broken is to the main website for the database. http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/SpeciesList.aspx?State=&County=&Group=Fishes& Genus=&Species=&ComName=&Status=&FMB=&pathway=&Sortby=%5BGroup%5D,Genus,Spec ies,SubSpecies&Size=50&nativeexotic=&HUCNumber=&Page=1 http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/default.aspx http://www.nisbase.org/nisbase/index.jsp And then there is NANFA, North American Native Fish Association, which has it's own website and forums here... http://www.nanfa.org/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47386	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

It's not how many teaspoons that are in a ml but rather how many ml in a teaspoon. A ml is a pretty small measurement.. made up of 20 drops. A teaspoon is equal to 4.92ml (rounded up to 5ml for simplicity or around 100 drops. Apx. 1/5th of a teaspoon is equal to 1ml. You do not need a gallon of dechlor, although it may be a MUCH better price per gallon. That would last you about 10 years and would likely expire before you could ever use it all. Even a 16 oz. bottle of API should last you well over a year. The reason the gallon jug cost so much for shipping is that a gallon weighs around 8 pounds or so, where the 16 oz. bottle weighs around a pound. Also, the gallon jug doesn't fit in one of the pre-formatted shipping boxes that USPS and other carriers give their best pricing on. The 16 oz. bottles of most aquarium dechlors have one of the best prices per oz. while still not giving the average fish keeper so much product that it would expire before it can all be used. Now, for folks with fish rooms, they can buy it by the quart or possibly even the gallon and not have issues. Yes, most dechlors are going to be in liquid form except for the bulk products primarily sold for pond owners with BIG swimming pool sized ponds... not the mini-ponds that most folks have. For mini-ponds, the 16 oz. or quart sized bottles will last a LONG time also. Most ponds to not have to get as many PWC's as our aquariums because God does a lot of them for us pond keepers... when it rains. ;-) I had three goldfish mini-ponds (less than 1,000G each) of my own for many years with my last house until I got rid of the witch.... oops.. I mean ex-wife... and I still take care of seasonal to monthly maintenance for several more for customers nowadays and none of them need or buy their chemicals in bulk form. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits how many teaspoons are in a ml? lol, sorry had to ask ;) I'm assuming that Kent marine dechlor is liquid since it's labeled in oz's. I was going to order a gallon of another type of dechlor on there but the shipping was horrible after I added it (it cost more than the dechlor to ship it, so not worth it IMO) lol. That's why I was asking about a powdered dechlor that treats heavy metals. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on > sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > echlor > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > Dechlor> > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idPro > duct=K M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat > heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or > marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein skimming. > (END SNIP) > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > bottle of > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better > price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API > where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats 10G". > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap > water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API > product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the > cart). > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but > > they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands > > of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best > > price you will find for a smaller container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, > > like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > best price for me down here. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not > > > sure if they test every water supply or not. > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and > > > lead in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I > > > figured this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat > > > heavy metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and > > > would therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47387	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

That one costs more than the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's (or what API's 16 oz. bottle would cost). 32 oz. of Kent's from Marine Depot would only cost around $18.00 where the PondCare product cost $24.00 for 32 oz. I'm still not sure you need that much at a time unless you are seriously overdosing your tanks with dechlor. If I recall correctly, you have around 250G of tanks.. right? If you do 25% PWC's on each tank, once a week, that's around 65G of water, each week, that you should be treating. Since the 16 oz. (473ml) bottle of API or Kent's will treat 65G of water with 6.5ml of dechlor, the 473ml bottle should provide enough dechlor for 73 weekly PWC's (of 65G worth of water each time). A 32 oz. supply should last you almost three years (146 weeks) if you choose to go that route. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits What do you think about this product? http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B 000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm placing a different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on > sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > echlor > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > Dechlor> > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idPro > duct=K M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat > heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or > marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein skimming. > (END SNIP) > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > bottle of > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better > price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API > where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats 10G". > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap > water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API > product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the > cart). > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but > > they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands > > of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best > > price you will find for a smaller container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, > > like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > best price for me down here. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not > > > sure if they test every water supply or not. > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and > > > lead in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I > > > figured this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat > > > heavy metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and > > > would therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47388	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/16/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

Oops.. something I just noticed while looking at this product again is that it has a dosage listed under the product description and it says "one ounce treats 600 gallons". Since an ounce has around 30ml in it, then 1ml of this product is treating 20G of water so it's actually twice as concentrated as API or the Kent product so this one is actually a much better deal BUT... now that means that this 32 oz. bottle should last you around SIX YEARS and I don't know what the shelf life is on these chemicals. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits What do you think about this product? http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B 000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm placing a different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on > sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > echlor > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > Dechlor> > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idPro > duct=K M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat > heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or > marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein skimming. > (END SNIP) > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > bottle of > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better > price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API > where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats 10G". > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap > water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API > product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the > cart). > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but > > they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands > > of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best > > price you will find for a smaller container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, > > like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > best price for me down here. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not > > > sure if they test every water supply or not. > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and > > > lead in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I > > > figured this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat > > > heavy metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and > > > would therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47389	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

If it is just dechor and EDTA, the shelf life is pretty much infinite, assuming normal room temperatures. Other ingredients added, your guess is as good as mine. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits Oops.. something I just noticed while looking at this product again is that it has a dosage listed under the product description and it says "one ounce treats 600 gallons". Since an ounce has around 30ml in it, then 1ml of this product is treating 20G of water so it's actually twice as concentrated as API or the Kent product so this one is actually a much better deal BUT... now that means that this 32 oz. bottle should last you around SIX YEARS and I don't know what the shelf life is on these chemicals. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits What do you think about this product? http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B 000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm placing a different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on > sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > echlor > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > Dechlor> > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idPro > duct=K M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat > heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or > marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein skimming. > (END SNIP) > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > bottle of > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better > price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API > where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats 10G". > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap > water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API > product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the > cart). > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but > > they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands > > of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best > > price you will find for a smaller container for home use. In your case, a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, > > like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > best price for me down here. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not > > > sure if they test every water supply or not. > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and > > > lead in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I > > > figured this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat > > > heavy metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and > > > would therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47390	From: Noura	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

Hi Donna, Will a Nerite snail be OK alone in a tank? If it will only eat green algae then I wouldn't dare put more than one per tank, otherwise they may starve to death as there isn't an excessive algae growth in any of my tanks. btw, I never saw a BN pleco in the LFSs before, anyway I don't like any pleco that has the hard "skin" as the common pleco does, it causes some mess and terror when it moves at night, especially when it's 3"+ (which it usually reaches in no time based on my previous experience). Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well with mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have exited one way or another. The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a 20G with mbuna I’d say, is a bristlenose pleco. I’ve had about 60/40 success ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, and if they get carried away “tasting” them, well, you can imagine. IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite marks in it. They don’t make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47391	From: jimpat101	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....

It doesn't look good... The plastic rim is now cracking in the front after my fix. Where can I order a new one? Any ideas? I fixed the back and now the front is starting to crack....has anyone replaced one? is it hard? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47392	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....

I think I remember your past post but wanted to be sure. Do you have photos uploaded to the group or your own photo album online? Do you mean the plastic frame that covers the glass on the top? Why is it cracking? In the past, I've seen them crack when someone used high-powered HOT lighting like Halogen, Metal Halide, etc., but not for any other reason. While trying to figure out the cause, I would lower the water volume by several inches to relieve some of the pressure on the glass/frame so you don't find yourself with a disaster on your hands. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a new top for my 72g. bow front..... It doesn't look good... The plastic rim is now cracking in the front after my fix. Where can I order a new one? Any ideas? I fixed the back and now the front is starting to crack....has anyone replaced one? is it hard? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

That's why Pleco's can survive in an aggressive cichlid tank... because they have the armor plating and spiny bones in their fins. While a common pleco would have to be traded in every few months to six months, a BN pleco only grows to 5" to 6" so you might be able to keep it much longer or even forever if the rest of the tank's bioload isn't too heavy. Clown Pleco's are even smaller but I haven't found any evidence that they would be able to do well in your hard, high pH water. At least there is some anecdotal evidence of the Common and BN plecos surviving in your type of water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi Donna, Will a Nerite snail be OK alone in a tank? If it will only eat green algae then I wouldn't dare put more than one per tank, otherwise they may starve to death as there isn't an excessive algae growth in any of my tanks. btw, I never saw a BN pleco in the LFSs before, anyway I don't like any pleco that has the hard "skin" as the common pleco does, it causes some mess and terror when it moves at night, especially when it's 3"+ (which it usually reaches in no time based on my previous experience). Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well with mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have exited one way or another. The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a 20G with mbuna I'd say, is a bristlenose pleco. I've had about 60/40 success ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, and if they get carried away "tasting" them, well, you can imagine. IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite marks in it. They don't make a clean sweep like the bristlenose.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47394	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

There's also "ruberlip pleco's" (they grow to 5" I believe, I was doing research on them) my LFS had some of those in stock... mine all died with my water changing incident (practically right after I added them to the tank), I had done the PWC only a day before I bought the new fish. I'm not getting any more new fish until I can figure out either what's going on or when the new water conditioner gets here and I find out if that was the problem. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That's why Pleco's can survive in an aggressive cichlid tank... > because they > have the armor plating and spiny bones in their fins. > > While a common pleco would have to be traded in every few months to six > months, a BN pleco only grows to 5" to 6" so you might be able to keep it > much longer or even forever if the rest of the tank's bioload isn't too > heavy. > > Clown Pleco's are even smaller but I haven't found any evidence that they > would be able to do well in your hard, high pH water. At least there is > some anecdotal evidence of the Common and BN plecos surviving in your type > of water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Hi Donna, > Will a Nerite snail be OK alone in a tank? If it will only eat green algae > then I wouldn't dare put more than one per tank, otherwise they may starve > to death as there isn't an excessive algae growth in any of my tanks. > > btw, I never saw a BN pleco in the LFSs before, anyway I don't like any > pleco that has the hard "skin" as the common pleco does, it causes > some mess > and terror when it moves at night, especially when it's 3"+ (which it > usually reaches in no time based on my previous experience). > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donna Ransome > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:06 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, > die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well > with > mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have > exited one way or another. > > The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a > 20G > with mbuna I'd say, is a bristlenose pleco. I've had about 60/40 success > ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, > and if they get carried away "tasting" them, well, you can imagine. > > IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite > marks in it. They don't make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47395	From: Noura	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks

Not babies at all, they look amazing Lainey. How many of them survived eventually? btw, that folder needs some "trimming" as there are lots of almsot repeated photos or photos that show "nothing" when the fry were too small. Limiting the number of photos by half will make an excellent reference forlder for Rams breeding and fry growth. Keep up posted, and let us know when your "babies" start forming couples! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lainey Alexander To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks I'm not sure I can call them babies anymore, but here are four new pictures in new photos. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

As usual, with catfish and cichlids (and many other fish), it's best to KNOW their scientific name. I've seen the "rubber lip pleco" name thrown around from time to time and according to PlanetCatfish.com, the most extensive source of good info on catfish on the web, they list only the common names http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/common_names.php?letter=r, Rubber Pleco and Rubber Nose Pleco. Other websites show the Rubber Lip Pleco is *mis-named" and should be the *more* common name of Bulldog Pleco or Rubber Nose Pleco, Chaetostoma sp. aff. milesi or an L number, either L187a or L187b. Rubber Nose or Bulldog Pleco - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=407 Rubber or Chubby Pleco is a much larger and different looking pleco - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=82 PlecoFanatics says the Rubber Lip is the Rubber Nose or Bulldog http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9154 On the PlanetCatfish page, you can click on a link for "Search all of PlanetCatfish for info" and it came up with 21 hits of discussions of the scientific name C. ... milesi. I do not see any reference to their preferred water parameters on the profiles so maybe one of the 21 forum discussions will give more info. They are also less available than BN plecos or common plecos and Noura can't even find BN's over there. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE There's also "ruberlip pleco's" (they grow to 5" I believe, I was doing research on them) my LFS had some of those in stock... mine all died with my water changing incident (practically right after I added them to the tank), I had done the PWC only a day before I bought the new fish. I'm not getting any more new fish until I can figure out either what's going on or when the new water conditioner gets here and I find out if that was the problem. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That's why Pleco's can survive in an aggressive cichlid tank... > because they > have the armor plating and spiny bones in their fins. > > While a common pleco would have to be traded in every few months to > six months, a BN pleco only grows to 5" to 6" so you might be able to > keep it much longer or even forever if the rest of the tank's bioload > isn't too heavy. > > Clown Pleco's are even smaller but I haven't found any evidence that > they would be able to do well in your hard, high pH water. At least > there is some anecdotal evidence of the Common and BN plecos surviving > in your type of water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Hi Donna, > Will a Nerite snail be OK alone in a tank? If it will only eat green > algae then I wouldn't dare put more than one per tank, otherwise they > may starve to death as there isn't an excessive algae growth in any of my tanks. > > btw, I never saw a BN pleco in the LFSs before, anyway I don't like > any pleco that has the hard "skin" as the common pleco does, it causes > some mess and terror when it moves at night, especially when it's 3"+ > (which it usually reaches in no time based on my previous experience). > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donna Ransome > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:06 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green > algae, die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not > do well with mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in > my mbuna tank have exited one way or another. > > The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for > a 20G with mbuna I'd say, is a bristlenose pleco. I've had about 60/40 > success ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated > by the eyes, and if they get carried away "tasting" them, well, you > can imagine. > > IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little > bite marks in it. They don't make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47397	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....

Lenny, I have posted a picture of the back crack I had in photo's. I have since fixed that with a 1/4" piece of Laxax glued to the frame, now the front is starting to show cracks. I have been told by a LFS that on bow front tanks since the major amount of pressure is on the bosed out part of the glass that they have seen this before and the plastic "rim" should be replaced every 5 yrs.... I'm wondering if I should replace the whole tank at this point. Thanks, Jim In a message dated 3/17/2010 11:03:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I think I remember your past post but wanted to be sure. Do you have photos uploaded to the group or your own photo album online? Do you mean the plastic frame that covers the glass on the top? Why is it cracking? In the past, I've seen them crack when someone used high-powered HOT lighting like Halogen, Metal Halide, etc., but not for any other reason. While trying to figure out the cause, I would lower the water volume by several inches to relieve some of the pressure on the glass/frame so you don't find yourself with a disaster on your hands. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:11 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a new top for my 72g. bow front..... It doesn't look good... The plastic rim is now cracking in the front after my fix. Where can I order a new one? Any ideas? I fixed the back and now the front is starting to crack....has anyone replaced one? is it hard? Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47398	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....

OK. I found your photo album named "Tank Brace" here... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1054139461/pic/list I remember suggestion L shaped plastic or plexiglass reinforcements epoxied in to secure the center brace. Now, onto the new cracks. Where are they located? Or better yet, can you take several photos (different angles, etc.) showing them? I'm sure the frame can be reinforced and if done with the same color plastic or clear plexiglass, it should be fairly inconspicuous. Absent repairing/reinforcing the frame top, you would have to track down the manufacturer of the tank to find the part or you could try a tank maker like http://www.GlassCages.com to see if they have the top frame section and then decide if you want to repair or replace the tank. My thoughts would be on repairing the tank. In all my years of actively participating in many different online forums, I've never seen this topic before so I'm not sure about this being common but I did a Google of - bow front aquarium frame cracking - and there are many hits. Here's one forum thread with photos. http://www.aquaboards.com/viewtopic.php?id=7923 In the interim, I stand by my earlier warning of lowering your water level by several inches or more (you might even have to extend your filter intakes) until things are reinforced. Is your stand sufficient for the tank? That's something else that could cause stress cracks to form, if the tank is sagging in the middle or something like that. If that is a possibility, then a disaster could happen at any time on a glass tank. Is this one glass or acrylic? Acrylic would be a little more forgiving and might even show signs of stress fissures without cracking like glass would do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jpateson@... Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a new top for my 72g. bow front..... Lenny, I have posted a picture of the back crack I had in photo's. I have since fixed that with a 1/4" piece of Laxax glued to the frame, now the front is starting to show cracks. I have been told by a LFS that on bow front tanks since the major amount of pressure is on the bosed out part of the glass that they have seen this before and the plastic "rim" should be replaced every 5 yrs.... I'm wondering if I should replace the whole tank at this point. Thanks, Jim In a message dated 3/17/2010 11:03:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I think I remember your past post but wanted to be sure. Do you have photos uploaded to the group or your own photo album online? Do you mean the plastic frame that covers the glass on the top? Why is it cracking? In the past, I've seen them crack when someone used high-powered HOT lighting like Halogen, Metal Halide, etc., but not for any other reason. While trying to figure out the cause, I would lower the water volume by several inches to relieve some of the pressure on the glass/frame so you don't find yourself with a disaster on your hands. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:11 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a new top for my 72g. bow front..... It doesn't look good... The plastic rim is now cracking in the front after my fix. Where can I order a new one? Any ideas? I fixed the back and now the front is starting to crack....has anyone replaced one? is it hard? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47399	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....

Oh.. one other good thread with some other good info. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/30648-splitting-46g-bf -center-brace-what.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ygd8kxh Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jpateson@... Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a new top for my 72g. bow front..... Lenny, I have posted a picture of the back crack I had in photo's. I have since fixed that with a 1/4" piece of Laxax glued to the frame, now the front is starting to show cracks. I have been told by a LFS that on bow front tanks since the major amount of pressure is on the bosed out part of the glass that they have seen this before and the plastic "rim" should be replaced every 5 yrs.... I'm wondering if I should replace the whole tank at this point. Thanks, Jim In a message dated 3/17/2010 11:03:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I think I remember your past post but wanted to be sure. Do you have photos uploaded to the group or your own photo album online? Do you mean the plastic frame that covers the glass on the top? Why is it cracking? In the past, I've seen them crack when someone used high-powered HOT lighting like Halogen, Metal Halide, etc., but not for any other reason. While trying to figure out the cause, I would lower the water volume by several inches to relieve some of the pressure on the glass/frame so you don't find yourself with a disaster on your hands. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:11 AM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a new top for my 72g. bow front..... It doesn't look good... The plastic rim is now cracking in the front after my fix. Where can I order a new one? Any ideas? I fixed the back and now the front is starting to crack....has anyone replaced one? is it hard? Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47400	From: Noura	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

Amber, I live in Syria, and not even in the capital Damascus, but in a smallish city on the mediteranian. The only plecos and algae eaters that I found during the last 3 years are Common Plecos (olive green and albino) and the CAE (mainly the golden type). Besides, even the pet stores in Damascus don't have much wider choice (BTW, there are rarely stores dedicated to trade in only fish and aquarium supplies, they wouldn't be able to make a living out of it :) they also trade all kinds of pets from turtles to monkeys) And it's not even like living in Alaska, because here the wholesales companies will not send you a fish or two or even ten, assuming that the wanted item is available in the first place. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE There's also "ruberlip pleco's" (they grow to 5" I believe, I was doing research on them) my LFS had some of those in stock... mine all died with my water changing incident (practically right after I added them to the tank), I had done the PWC only a day before I bought the new fish. I'm not getting any more new fish until I can figure out either what's going on or when the new water conditioner gets here and I find out if that was the problem. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That's why Pleco's can survive in an aggressive cichlid tank... > because they > have the armor plating and spiny bones in their fins. > > While a common pleco would have to be traded in every few months to six > months, a BN pleco only grows to 5" to 6" so you might be able to keep it > much longer or even forever if the rest of the tank's bioload isn't too > heavy. > > Clown Pleco's are even smaller but I haven't found any evidence that they > would be able to do well in your hard, high pH water. At least there is > some anecdotal evidence of the Common and BN plecos surviving in your type > of water. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > Hi Donna, > Will a Nerite snail be OK alone in a tank? If it will only eat green algae > then I wouldn't dare put more than one per tank, otherwise they may starve > to death as there isn't an excessive algae growth in any of my tanks. > > btw, I never saw a BN pleco in the LFSs before, anyway I don't like any > pleco that has the hard "skin" as the common pleco does, it causes > some mess > and terror when it moves at night, especially when it's 3"+ (which it > usually reaches in no time based on my previous experience). > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donna Ransome > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:06 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, > die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well > with > mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have > exited one way or another. > > The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a > 20G > with mbuna I'd say, is a bristlenose pleco. I've had about 60/40 success > ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, > and if they get carried away "tasting" them, well, you can imagine. > > IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite > marks in it. They don't make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47401	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

Well I was surprised to even see them at my LFS, considering they normally only order the common sailfin pleco that gets gigantic. That's why I bought a few of them, but they didn't even live 12 hours... They were dead before morning. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > As usual, with catfish and cichlids (and many other fish), it's best > to KNOW > their scientific name. I've seen the "rubber lip pleco" name thrown around > from time to time and according to PlanetCatfish.com, the most extensive > source of good info on catfish on the web, they list only the common names > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/common_names.php?letter=r, > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/common_names.php?letter=r,> > Rubber Pleco > and Rubber Nose Pleco. Other websites show the Rubber Lip Pleco is > *mis-named" and should be the *more* common name of Bulldog Pleco or > Rubber > Nose Pleco, Chaetostoma sp. aff. milesi or an L number, either L187a or > L187b. > > Rubber Nose or Bulldog Pleco - > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=407 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=407> > > Rubber or Chubby Pleco is a much larger and different looking pleco - > http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=82 > <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=82> > > PlecoFanatics says the Rubber Lip is the Rubber Nose or Bulldog > http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9154 > <http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9154> > > On the PlanetCatfish page, you can click on a link for "Search all of > PlanetCatfish for info" and it came up with 21 hits of discussions of the > scientific name C. ... milesi. > > I do not see any reference to their preferred water parameters on the > profiles so maybe one of the 21 forum discussions will give more info. > > They are also less available than BN plecos or common plecos and Noura > can't > even find BN's over there. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > There's also "ruberlip pleco's" (they grow to 5" I believe, I was doing > research on them) my LFS had some of those in stock... mine all died > with my > water changing incident (practically right after I added them to the > tank), > I had done the PWC only a day before I bought the new fish. > I'm not getting any more new fish until I can figure out either what's > going > on or when the new water conditioner gets here and I find out if that was > the problem. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > That's why Pleco's can survive in an aggressive cichlid tank... > > because they > > have the armor plating and spiny bones in their fins. > > > > While a common pleco would have to be traded in every few months to > > six months, a BN pleco only grows to 5" to 6" so you might be able to > > keep it much longer or even forever if the rest of the tank's bioload > > isn't too heavy. > > > > Clown Pleco's are even smaller but I haven't found any evidence that > > they would be able to do well in your hard, high pH water. At least > > there is some anecdotal evidence of the Common and BN plecos surviving > > in your type of water. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:45 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > > > Hi Donna, > > Will a Nerite snail be OK alone in a tank? If it will only eat green > > algae then I wouldn't dare put more than one per tank, otherwise they > > may starve to death as there isn't an excessive algae growth in any > of my > tanks. > > > > btw, I never saw a BN pleco in the LFSs before, anyway I don't like > > any pleco that has the hard "skin" as the common pleco does, it causes > > some mess and terror when it moves at night, especially when it's 3"+ > > (which it usually reaches in no time based on my previous experience). > > > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Donna Ransome > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:06 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE > > > > I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green > > algae, die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not > > do well with mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in > > my mbuna tank have exited one way or another. > > > > The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for > > a 20G with mbuna I'd say, is a bristlenose pleco. I've had about 60/40 > > success ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated > > by the eyes, and if they get carried away "tasting" them, well, you > > can imagine. > > > > IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little > > bite marks in it. They don't make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47402	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

I can't ship fish here in Alaska through regular online fish companies either, I can only order from breeders and personal orders sent to me on my own fed ex account. All big fish companies say that the shipping takes 2 days because that's our overnight commit date, regardless if it gets in before that or not they won't ship to me (even without a guarantee). So I tend to be limited to what breeders/aquabid sellers are selling, or what my LFS has in stock (which isn't much because they're a very small LFS, LOL). I sympathize with you though, I know how hard it is to get fish or even fish products when your LFS does not have them in stock. Amber Noura wrote: > Amber, I live in Syria, and not even in the capital Damascus, but in a > smallish city on the mediteranian. The only plecos and algae eaters that I > found during the last 3 years are Common Plecos (olive green and albino) and > the CAE (mainly the golden type). > Besides, even the pet stores in Damascus don't have much wider choice (BTW, > there are rarely stores dedicated to trade in only fish and aquarium > supplies, they wouldn't be able to make a living out of it :) they also > trade all kinds of pets from turtles to monkeys) > > And it's not even like living in Alaska, because here the wholesales > companies will not send you a fish or two or even ten, assuming that the > wanted item is available in the first place. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE > > > There's also "ruberlip pleco's" (they grow to 5" I believe, I was doing > research on them) my LFS had some of those in stock... mine all died > with my water changing incident (practically right after I added them to > the tank), I had done the PWC only a day before I bought the new fish. > I'm not getting any more new fish until I can figure out either what's > going on or when the new water conditioner gets here and I find out if > that was the problem. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> That's why Pleco's can survive in an aggressive cichlid tank... >> because they >> have the armor plating and spiny bones in their fins. >> >> While a common pleco would have to be traded in every few months to six >> months, a BN pleco only grows to 5" to 6" so you might be able to keep it >> much longer or even forever if the rest of the tank's bioload isn't too >> heavy. >> >> Clown Pleco's are even smaller but I haven't found any evidence that they >> would be able to do well in your hard, high pH water. At least there is >> some anecdotal evidence of the Common and BN plecos surviving in your type >> of water. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Noura >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:45 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE >> >> Hi Donna, >> Will a Nerite snail be OK alone in a tank? If it will only eat green algae >> then I wouldn't dare put more than one per tank, otherwise they may starve >> to death as there isn't an excessive algae growth in any of my tanks. >> >> btw, I never saw a BN pleco in the LFSs before, anyway I don't like any >> pleco that has the hard "skin" as the common pleco does, it causes >> some mess >> and terror when it moves at night, especially when it's 3"+ (which it >> usually reaches in no time based on my previous experience). >> >> Noura >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Donna Ransome >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:06 AM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE >> >> I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, >> die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well >> with >> mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have >> exited one way or another. >> >> The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a >> 20G >> with mbuna I'd say, is a bristlenose pleco. I've had about 60/40 success >> ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, >> and if they get carried away "tasting" them, well, you can imagine. >> >> IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite >> marks in it. They don't make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47403	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

Any opinions on this brand at marinedepot? It says it's safe for human consumption even (or rather on creatures that will be eaten). http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartRow=19183670&isKit=0&child=NV33156 Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That one costs more than the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's (or what API's 16 oz. > bottle would cost). 32 oz. of Kent's from Marine Depot would only cost > around $18.00 where the PondCare product cost $24.00 for 32 oz. > > I'm still not sure you need that much at a time unless you are seriously > overdosing your tanks with dechlor. > > If I recall correctly, you have around 250G of tanks.. right? If you > do 25% > PWC's on each tank, once a week, that's around 65G of water, each > week, that > you should be treating. Since the 16 oz. (473ml) bottle of API or Kent's > will treat 65G of water with 6.5ml of dechlor, the 473ml bottle should > provide enough dechlor for 73 weekly PWC's (of 65G worth of water each > time). A 32 oz. supply should last you almost three years (146 weeks) if > you choose to go that route. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > What do you think about this product? > http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B> > 000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 > It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm placing a > different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on > > sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D> > > echlor > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > Dechlor> > > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idPro > > duct=K M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>> > > > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat > > heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>> > > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or > > marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. > > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein > skimming. > > (END SNIP) > > > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > > bottle of > > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better > > price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API > > where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats > 10G". > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap > > water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API > > product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the > > cart). > > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but > > > they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands > > > of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best > > > price you will find for a smaller container for home use. In your > case, > a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, > > > like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>>> > > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > > best price for me down here. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not > > > > sure if they test every water supply or not. > > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and > > > > lead in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I > > > > figured this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat > > > > heavy metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and > > > > would therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47404	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

I have 2 x 55 gallon tanks, 2 x 10 gallons (one is plant only though and doesn't get a PWC every week), and I have the big tank 125 gallons. Should I get more than a 16 oz bottle or should that last me a year or more with all my tanks even if I did more than 1x25% PWC every week? Some weeks I will do 2 PWC's on the big tank, and my very overcrowded 55 gallon upstairs with all those darn guppies. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That one costs more than the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's (or what API's 16 oz. > bottle would cost). 32 oz. of Kent's from Marine Depot would only cost > around $18.00 where the PondCare product cost $24.00 for 32 oz. > > I'm still not sure you need that much at a time unless you are seriously > overdosing your tanks with dechlor. > > If I recall correctly, you have around 250G of tanks.. right? If you > do 25% > PWC's on each tank, once a week, that's around 65G of water, each > week, that > you should be treating. Since the 16 oz. (473ml) bottle of API or Kent's > will treat 65G of water with 6.5ml of dechlor, the 473ml bottle should > provide enough dechlor for 73 weekly PWC's (of 65G worth of water each > time). A 32 oz. supply should last you almost three years (146 weeks) if > you choose to go that route. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > What do you think about this product? > http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B> > 000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 > It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm placing a > different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on > > sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D> > > echlor > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > Dechlor> > > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idPro > > duct=K M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>> > > > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat > > heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>> > > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or > > marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. > > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein > skimming. > > (END SNIP) > > > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > > bottle of > > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better > > price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API > > where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats > 10G". > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap > > water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API > > product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the > > cart). > > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but > > > they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands > > > of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best > > > price you will find for a smaller container for home use. In your > case, > a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, > > > like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>>> > > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > > best price for me down here. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not > > > > sure if they test every water supply or not. > > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and > > > > lead in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I > > > > figured this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat > > > > heavy metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and > > > > would therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47405	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks

Thanks, Noura - I have twenty two babies. I think there were around fifty that hatched... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Noura wrote: > Not babies at all, they look amazing Lainey. > How many of them survived eventually? > btw, that folder needs some "trimming" as there are lots of almsot > repeated photos or photos that show "nothing" when the fry were too > small. > Limiting the number of photos by half will make an excellent > reference forlder for Rams breeding and fry growth. > > Keep up posted, and let us know when your "babies" start forming > couples! > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:56 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks > > I'm not sure I can call them babies anymore, but here are four new > pictures in new photos. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47406	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

It's not just a basic dechlor and heavy metal treatment. It has all the slime-this and stress-that stuff added to it. It also supposedly has some kind of buffering agent in it to stabilize the pH, blah, blah, blah. Last but not least, it needs 5ml per 10G where the Kent's and/or API needs only 1ml per 10G, so it's only 20% as effective as API or Kent's... which means it's FIVE TIMES more expensive. In case you missed my earlier follow-up reply, that PondCare stuff on Amazon.com is actually double the concentration of either API or Kent's so it's probably the best bargain that you've asked about so far... if you are ordering other stuff so you can bundle it for shipping efficiency. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits Any opinions on this brand at marinedepot? It says it's safe for human consumption even (or rather on creatures that will be eaten). http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartRow=1918 3670&isKit=0&child=NV33156 Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > That one costs more than the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's (or what API's 16 oz. > bottle would cost). 32 oz. of Kent's from Marine Depot would only cost > around $18.00 where the PondCare product cost $24.00 for 32 oz. > > I'm still not sure you need that much at a time unless you are seriously > overdosing your tanks with dechlor. > > If I recall correctly, you have around 250G of tanks.. right? If you > do 25% > PWC's on each tank, once a week, that's around 65G of water, each > week, that > you should be treating. Since the 16 oz. (473ml) bottle of API or Kent's > will treat 65G of water with 6.5ml of dechlor, the 473ml bottle should > provide enough dechlor for 73 weekly PWC's (of 65G worth of water each > time). A 32 oz. supply should last you almost three years (146 weeks) if > you choose to go that route. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > What do you think about this product? > http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/ B> > 000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 > It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm placing a > different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on > > sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to API's. > > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D> > > echlor > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > Dechlor> > > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idPro > > duct=K M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>> > > > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat > > heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>> > > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or > > marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. > > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with protein > skimming. > > (END SNIP) > > > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > > bottle of > > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better > > price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API > > where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml treats > 10G". > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap > > water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API > > product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the > > cart). > > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but > > > they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands > > > of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best > > > price you will find for a smaller container for home use. In your > case, > a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, > > > like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>>> > > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > > best price for me down here. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not > > > > sure if they test every water supply or not. > > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and > > > > lead in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I > > > > figured this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat > > > > heavy metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and > > > > would therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47407	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

A nerite snail will be OK alone in a tank if there are no aggressive fish in it not OK with mbuna or Tangs IME. One per 10G is recommended if you have algae. Not just any green algae, but only the soft green algae. It will not eat hair or spot algae for instance. BN pleco’s stay small at around 4”, but I believe they are armored. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi Donna, Will a Nerite snail be OK alone in a tank? If it will only eat green algae then I wouldn't dare put more than one per tank, otherwise they may starve to death as there isn't an excessive algae growth in any of my tanks. btw, I never saw a BN pleco in the LFSs before, anyway I don't like any pleco that has the hard "skin" as the common pleco does, it causes some mess and terror when it moves at night, especially when it's 3"+ (which it usually reaches in no time based on my previous experience). Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well with mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have exited one way or another. The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a 20G with mbuna I’d say, is a bristlenose pleco. I’ve had about 60/40 success ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, and if they get carried away “tasting” them, well, you can imagine. IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite marks in it. They don’t make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47408	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

Okay so I'm going to get some of the kent's off of marinedepot. For now I bought a bottle of stress coat from the LFS (they only carry stress coat btw, I've asked if they would get other kinds and was told no). Should I dose a little of the stress coat for the heavy metals or would a couple PWC's not be enough heavy metals to worry about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It's not just a basic dechlor and heavy metal treatment. It has all the > slime-this and stress-that stuff added to it. It also supposedly has some > kind of buffering agent in it to stabilize the pH, blah, blah, blah. Last > but not least, it needs 5ml per 10G where the Kent's and/or API needs only > 1ml per 10G, so it's only 20% as effective as API or Kent's... which means > it's FIVE TIMES more expensive. > > In case you missed my earlier follow-up reply, that PondCare stuff on > Amazon.com is actually double the concentration of either API or Kent's so > it's probably the best bargain that you've asked about so far... if > you are > ordering other stuff so you can bundle it for shipping efficiency. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > Any opinions on this brand at marinedepot? It says it's safe for human > consumption even (or rather on creatures that will be eaten). > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartRow=1918 > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartRow=1918> > 3670&isKit=0&child=NV33156 > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > That one costs more than the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's (or what API's > 16 oz. > > bottle would cost). 32 oz. of Kent's from Marine Depot would only cost > > around $18.00 where the PondCare product cost $24.00 for 32 oz. > > > > I'm still not sure you need that much at a time unless you are seriously > > overdosing your tanks with dechlor. > > > > If I recall correctly, you have around 250G of tanks.. right? If you > > do 25% > > PWC's on each tank, once a week, that's around 65G of water, each > > week, that > > you should be treating. Since the 16 oz. (473ml) bottle of API or Kent's > > will treat 65G of water with 6.5ml of dechlor, the 473ml bottle should > > provide enough dechlor for 73 weekly PWC's (of 65G worth of water each > > time). A 32 oz. supply should last you almost three years (146 weeks) if > > you choose to go that route. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > What do you think about this product? > > > http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/B> > > > > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/ > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinator/dp/> > B> > > 000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 > > It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm > placing a > > different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 (on > > > sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best bargain at > > > MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration equal to > API's. > > > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D>> > > > echlor > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_>> > > > Dechlor> > > > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&idPro > > > duct=K M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>>> > > > > > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually treat > > > heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > > > > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>> > > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>>> > > > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater or > > > marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. > > > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with > protein > > skimming. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > > > bottle of > > > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much better > > > price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the description of API > > > where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where it should be "1ml > treats > > 10G". > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > > > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > > > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > > > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) tap > > > water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular API > > > product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to the > > > cart). > > > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA but > > > > they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating thousands > > > > of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner is the best > > > > price you will find for a smaller container for home use. In your > > case, > > a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you should > > > > buy it and time it for when you are buying something else online, > > > > like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>>> > > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>> > > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com>>>> > > > > Top Fin brand (from PetsMart and possibly other sources) is the next > > > > best price for me down here. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:43 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > > > > > Oops, darn spell check didn't catch my typo because it was spelled > > > > correctly, lol. I meant to type "seems like powder would WEIGH less > > > > than liquid" LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > Okay I'm ordering a copper test kit and a lead test kit, I want to > > > > > see what heavy metals my water really has. The tests that they run > > > > > are on a different water supply (the report online), so I'm not > > > > > sure if they test every water supply or not. > > > > > According to the reports there are trace amounts of copper and > > > > > lead in the water supply. The test kits aren't too expensive so I > > > > > figured this way I'd know exactly how much is in my water. > > > > > Are there any powdered water conditioners out there that treat > > > > > heavy metals? Seems like powder would way less than a liquid and > > > > > would therefor be cheaper for shipping prices ;) hehe. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > > > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > > > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47409	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47410	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Steve, Thank you for making us aware of this. I am going to unsubscribe because of their association with the HSUS. Also going to share it with people on other groups and my Facebook account. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 8:18 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47411	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47412	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

I guess you could do a one-time 1/2 dosing of your entire tank with the Stress-Coat. Since you've only done a couple of PWC's no more than 50% of the tank's water should be water that wasn't treated properly. Of course, if, in the past, you have been overdosing your former dechlor product, there should have been extra EDTA molecules floating around waiting for some heavy metals to chelate with, so more than likely, it's not related to heavy metals. Usually fish do not show immediate signs of heavy metal poisoning where inverts might show a faster response to it, especially copper. In the *wild* (after man has polluted it), fish live long lives in heavily polluted waters with lots of heavy metals and the gov't has to post warnings about NOT consuming fish from those waters due to having high mercury levels, etc., which is why I do not think your recent health issue was related to heavy metal issues but still believe it was related to chlorine/chloramine issues and possibly the stuff you bought not working right. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits Okay so I'm going to get some of the kent's off of marinedepot. For now I bought a bottle of stress coat from the LFS (they only carry stress coat btw, I've asked if they would get other kinds and was told no). Should I dose a little of the stress coat for the heavy metals or would a couple PWC's not be enough heavy metals to worry about? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It's not just a basic dechlor and heavy metal treatment. It has all > the slime-this and stress-that stuff added to it. It also supposedly > has some kind of buffering agent in it to stabilize the pH, blah, > blah, blah. Last but not least, it needs 5ml per 10G where the Kent's > and/or API needs only 1ml per 10G, so it's only 20% as effective as > API or Kent's... which means it's FIVE TIMES more expensive. > > In case you missed my earlier follow-up reply, that PondCare stuff on > Amazon.com is actually double the concentration of either API or > Kent's so it's probably the best bargain that you've asked about so > far... if you are ordering other stuff so you can bundle it for > shipping efficiency. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > Any opinions on this brand at marinedepot? It says it's safe for human > consumption even (or rather on creatures that will be eaten). > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartRo > w=1918 > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartR > ow=1918> > 3670&isKit=0&child=NV33156 > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > That one costs more than the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's (or what API's > 16 oz. > > bottle would cost). 32 oz. of Kent's from Marine Depot would only > > cost around $18.00 where the PondCare product cost $24.00 for 32 oz. > > > > I'm still not sure you need that much at a time unless you are > > seriously overdosing your tanks with dechlor. > > > > If I recall correctly, you have around 250G of tanks.. right? If you > > do 25% PWC's on each tank, once a week, that's around 65G of water, > > each week, that you should be treating. Since the 16 oz. (473ml) > > bottle of API or Kent's will treat 65G of water with 6.5ml of > > dechlor, the 473ml bottle should provide enough dechlor for 73 > > weekly PWC's (of 65G worth of water each time). A 32 oz. supply > > should last you almost three years (146 weeks) if you choose to go > > that route. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > What do you think about this product? > > > http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinato > r/dp/B > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinat > or/dp/B> > > > > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinat > or/dp/ > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinat > or/dp/> > B> > > 000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 > > It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm > placing a > > different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 > > > (on sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best > > > bargain at MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration > > > equal to > API's. > > > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > D> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > D > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > D>> > > > echlor > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > >> > > > Dechlor> > > > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&i > > > dPro duct=K > > > M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>>> > > > > > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually > > > treat heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > > > > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>> > > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>>> > > > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater > > > or marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. > > > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with > protein > > skimming. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > > > bottle of > > > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much > > > better price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the > > > description of API where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where > > > it should be "1ml > treats > > 10G". > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > > > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > > > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > > > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) > > > tap water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular > > > API product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to > > > the cart). > > > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA > > > > but they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating > > > > thousands of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner > > > > is the best price you will find for a smaller container for home > > > > use. In your > > case, > > a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you > > > > should buy it and time it for when you are buying something else > > > > online, like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > <http://www.FosterA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47413	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Hi Lenny, Early last year I started to receive smail mail from the HSUS. As I am adamantly against their practices I was angered to end up on their mailing list. Now I think I have an idea how it happened. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 9:31 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47414	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

See my previous LONG reply, which puts things in perspective. You of all people should KNOW to check things out before reacting abruptly to something in an email.... OR are you still waiting for your nine million dollars from that deceased politician's nephew in Nigeria? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Steve, Thank you for making us aware of this. I am going to unsubscribe because of their association with the HSUS. Also going to share it with people on other groups and my Facebook account. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 8:18 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47415	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Possibly... and DFS has admitted to this screw up. I also get their catalogs but have never received crap from HSUS, etc. so it wasn't everybody that ended up in this situation. I'm presuming that DFS will confirm what their customers are saying and no longer do this. This also happens when you (or anyone) signs up for eNewsletters where there are boxes to check about NOT sharing info with 3rd parties, etc. I ALWAYS check off these boxes to limit my info to the organization that I am giving the info to and for it to be NOT given out. I realize human errors will still occur. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Hi Lenny, Early last year I started to receive smail mail from the HSUS. As I am adamantly against their practices I was angered to end up on their mailing list. Now I think I have an idea how it happened. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 9:31 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47416	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/17/2010
Subject: Re: test kits

I was just covering all my bases ;) I'm still waiting to hear back from the manager of the local water company. Will let you know if they've changed anything. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I guess you could do a one-time 1/2 dosing of your entire tank with the > Stress-Coat. Since you've only done a couple of PWC's no more than 50% of > the tank's water should be water that wasn't treated properly. Of course, > if, in the past, you have been overdosing your former dechlor product, > there > should have been extra EDTA molecules floating around waiting for some > heavy > metals to chelate with, so more than likely, it's not related to heavy > metals. Usually fish do not show immediate signs of heavy metal poisoning > where inverts might show a faster response to it, especially copper. > > In the *wild* (after man has polluted it), fish live long lives in heavily > polluted waters with lots of heavy metals and the gov't has to post > warnings > about NOT consuming fish from those waters due to having high mercury > levels, etc., which is why I do not think your recent health issue was > related to heavy metal issues but still believe it was related to > chlorine/chloramine issues and possibly the stuff you bought not working > right. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > Okay so I'm going to get some of the kent's off of marinedepot. For now I > bought a bottle of stress coat from the LFS (they only carry stress coat > btw, I've asked if they would get other kinds and was told no). > Should I dose a little of the stress coat for the heavy metals or would a > couple PWC's not be enough heavy metals to worry about? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > It's not just a basic dechlor and heavy metal treatment. It has all > > the slime-this and stress-that stuff added to it. It also supposedly > > has some kind of buffering agent in it to stabilize the pH, blah, > > blah, blah. Last but not least, it needs 5ml per 10G where the Kent's > > and/or API needs only 1ml per 10G, so it's only 20% as effective as > > API or Kent's... which means it's FIVE TIMES more expensive. > > > > In case you missed my earlier follow-up reply, that PondCare stuff on > > Amazon.com is actually double the concentration of either API or > > Kent's so it's probably the best bargain that you've asked about so > > far... if you are ordering other stuff so you can bundle it for > > shipping efficiency. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > Any opinions on this brand at marinedepot? It says it's safe for human > > consumption even (or rather on creatures that will be eaten). > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartRo > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartRo> > > w=1918 > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartR > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=NV33111&idCartR> > > ow=1918> > > 3670&isKit=0&child=NV33156 > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > That one costs more than the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's (or what API's > > 16 oz. > > > bottle would cost). 32 oz. of Kent's from Marine Depot would only > > > cost around $18.00 where the PondCare product cost $24.00 for 32 oz. > > > > > > I'm still not sure you need that much at a time unless you are > > > seriously overdosing your tanks with dechlor. > > > > > > If I recall correctly, you have around 250G of tanks.. right? If you > > > do 25% PWC's on each tank, once a week, that's around 65G of water, > > > each week, that you should be treating. Since the 16 oz. (473ml) > > > bottle of API or Kent's will treat 65G of water with 6.5ml of > > > dechlor, the 473ml bottle should provide enough dechlor for 73 > > > weekly PWC's (of 65G worth of water each time). A 32 oz. supply > > > should last you almost three years (146 weeks) if you choose to go > > > that route. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:09 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > > > What do you think about this product? > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinato > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinato> > > r/dp/B > > > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinat > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinat> > > or/dp/B> > > > > > > > > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinat > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinat> > > or/dp/ > > > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinat > <http://www.amazon.com/PondCare-Chlorine-Heavy-Neutralizer-Dechlorinat> > > or/dp/> > > B> > > > 000V7GQX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1268791655&sr=8-2 > > > It's the only API product I could find on amazon.com. (where I'm > > placing a > > > different order but I could add dechlor to the cart too). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > It looks like the Kent Marine Pro-Dechlorinator, 16 oz. for $8.99 > > > > (on sale for $1.00 off the $9.99 regular price) is the best > > > > bargain at MarineDepot.com. 1ml treats 10G so it's a concentration > > > > equal to > > API's. > > > > Most of the other products do not list their dosage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_D> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > D> > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > D > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > D>> > > > > echlor > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_ > <http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?category=Kent_Marine_Pro_> > > >> > > > > Dechlor> > > > > inator_Tap_Water_Chlorine_Chloramine_Removers&vendor=Kent_Marine&i > > > > dPro duct=K > > > > M3421&IdCategory=FIADWTTCDC&child=KM3423&tab=1&size=16%20oz. > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>>> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>> > > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h> > <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h <http://tinyurl.com/yhjb46h>>>> > > > > > > > > MarineDepot's description doesn't say it but it does actually > > > > treat heavy metals as well, per Kent's own website... > > > > > > > > http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>> > > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>>> > > > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>> > > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm> > > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm > <http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-pro-dechlorinator.htm>>>> > > > > KENT MARINE PRO-DECHLORINATOR can be used directly in freshwater > > > > or marine aquariums to neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy > metals. > > > > Does not contain a slime coat protector that can interfere with > > protein > > > skimming. > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > For some reason, it looks like MarineDepot only carries the 4 oz. > > > > bottle of > > > > API's TWC for $3.79, so the 16 oz. bottle of Kent's is a much > > > > better price per oz. They also have a SERIOUS typo on the > > > > description of API where they say "one teaspoon treats 10G" where > > > > it should be "1ml > > treats > > > 10G". > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber > > > > Berglund > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:12 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: test kits > > > > > > > > I don't shop from places that ship expensive to Alaska... > > > > thatfishplace.com would be a better choice than DFS for me. I was > > > > trying to order something off of marinedepot.com since I'm already > > > > placing an order through them, but they don't have API's (regular) > > > > tap water conditioner, only the stress coat (it shows the regular > > > > API product online but it's not in stock if you try to add it to > > > > the cart). > > > > Any suggestions from marinedepot? LOL > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, they sell powdered Sodium Thiosulphate and powdered EDTA > > > > > but they are usually sold in LARGER containers than our dechlor > > > > > products. Some BIG pond owners will buy them for treating > > > > > thousands of gallons at a time. IMO, API's Tap Water Conditioner > > > > > is the best price you will find for a smaller container for home > > > > > use. In your > > > case, > > > a 16 oz. to 32 oz. > > > > > bottle would last you a LONG time... a year or more.. so you > > > > > should buy it and time it for when you are buying something else > > > > > online, like from http://www.FosterAndSmith.com > <http://www.FosterAndSmith.com> > > <http://www.FosterA > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47417	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Lenny, Your long winded explanation ends up saying exactly what the short snip I provided says. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47418	From: Noura	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks Thanks, Noura - I have twenty two babies. I think there were around fifty that hatched... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Noura wrote: > Not babies at all, they look amazing Lainey. > How many of them survived eventually? > btw, that folder needs some "trimming" as there are lots of almsot > repeated photos or photos that show "nothing" when the fry were too > small. > Limiting the number of photos by half will make an excellent > reference forlder for Rams breeding and fry growth. > > Keep up posted, and let us know when your "babies" start forming > couples! > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:56 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks > > I'm not sure I can call them babies anymore, but here are four new > pictures in new photos. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((؛> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<؛((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47419	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

At first, I thought you got taken in by one of them email hoaxes. ;-) Further, you didn't list any sources for your info and while I know you are usually diligent, I wanted to verify and source the info so that folks would know that it's true... but that also DFS has acknowledged the issue and is working on fixing it. Yours did not include the follow-up comments by Gordon Magee, the Marketing Director for DFS. You know the cover-up is always worse than the crime. ;-) In my best any-politician-nowadays voice... "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is" or "I am not a crook!" Your snip stated that DFS has a "relationship" with HSUS but they do not... except for sharing customer addresses with other mass-mailers, FOR CUSTOMERS THAT LIKELY GAVE THEM THE OK TO DO SO. If a customer doesn't check off the boxes to NOT share their info or sometimes customers will intentionally check off the boxes to allow 3rd-party sharing, then DFS can't be blamed for that... although I don't think they should have shared it with HSUS which might be considered an arch-enemy of a company like DFS. HSUS claims to have 11 million members and I bet that half of them do not have a clue who they are in bed with. Even Rush Limbaugh got snookered by HSUS and he did the two PSA's for them about their specific issues concerning Michael Vick and another issue but HSUS then blasted his name all over the internet saying that Rush supports them but he doesn't support much of what they do, only those two issues. Still, he gets so much grief from his customer base that I'm sure he regrets even doing those two issue-oriented PSA's. HSUS also lists my Republican U.S. Senator, David Vitter, as being a supporter but Vitter does not support 90% of what they do, but got caught saying that he did support some of their efforts... and HSUS ran with that as an endorsement in order to snooker in more folks. I equate HSUS to ACORN in the way that they do things to appear being a legitimate organization and do some good but then they do so many bad things, bribe so many politicians and mislead so many people with much of what they do that the good is not enough to overcome the bad. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, Your long winded explanation ends up saying exactly what the short snip I provided says. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47420	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Lenny, First, I gave the information I had at the time. Second, the quoted snip I got, and passed along, said nothing about a relationship with HSUS. That was covered in another part of the e-mail, partially compiled from all the info I had at the time, and is attributed to an anonymous, to you, source. You need to read more of my posts more closely, I think, and not go running off to conclusions, as I usually couch what I say very carefully, following the well know CYA policy. Finally, we need to pay more attention to clipping the extraneous Yahoo! added stuff at the end of our messages <g>. I clipped off three of those before writing this <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS At first, I thought you got taken in by one of them email hoaxes. ;-) Further, you didn't list any sources for your info and while I know you are usually diligent, I wanted to verify and source the info so that folks would know that it's true... but that also DFS has acknowledged the issue and is working on fixing it. Yours did not include the follow-up comments by Gordon Magee, the Marketing Director for DFS. You know the cover-up is always worse than the crime. ;-) In my best any-politician-nowadays voice... "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is" or "I am not a crook!" Your snip stated that DFS has a "relationship" with HSUS but they do not... except for sharing customer addresses with other mass-mailers, FOR CUSTOMERS THAT LIKELY GAVE THEM THE OK TO DO SO. If a customer doesn't check off the boxes to NOT share their info or sometimes customers will intentionally check off the boxes to allow 3rd-party sharing, then DFS can't be blamed for that... although I don't think they should have shared it with HSUS which might be considered an arch-enemy of a company like DFS. HSUS claims to have 11 million members and I bet that half of them do not have a clue who they are in bed with. Even Rush Limbaugh got snookered by HSUS and he did the two PSA's for them about their specific issues concerning Michael Vick and another issue but HSUS then blasted his name all over the internet saying that Rush supports them but he doesn't support much of what they do, only those two issues. Still, he gets so much grief from his customer base that I'm sure he regrets even doing those two issue-oriented PSA's. HSUS also lists my Republican U.S. Senator, David Vitter, as being a supporter but Vitter does not support 90% of what they do, but got caught saying that he did support some of their efforts... and HSUS ran with that as an endorsement in order to snooker in more folks. I equate HSUS to ACORN in the way that they do things to appear being a legitimate organization and do some good but then they do so many bad things, bribe so many politicians and mislead so many people with much of what they do that the good is not enough to overcome the bad. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, Your long winded explanation ends up saying exactly what the short snip I provided says. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47421	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

\\Steve//, You used "relationship" four times in your original post. I errantly typed "snip" instead of post in my last reply. 1st paragraph - "... inquiry about their relationship with HSUS..." 2nd paragraph - "... has a relationship with HSUS..." AND - "... asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS,..." AND - "... because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS..." I'm not sure what your definition of relationship is, but to me, it implies that they are more than just mass-mailers sharing some mailing list info. To me, it implies that they are partners, in an alliance, etc., of some sort. When I have a "relationship" with somebody or some company, it's not "casual". When I share information such as business/customer referrals, websites, etc., it's still not a "relationship", otherwise I would be in "relationships" with everyone out here in this group. I hope you all don't expect palimony if we ever separate. That's another reason why I live in Louisiana, we don't acknowledge so-called common-law marriages.... so don't even try to sue me for palimony. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, First, I gave the information I had at the time. Second, the quoted snip I got, and passed along, said nothing about a relationship with HSUS. That was covered in another part of the e-mail, partially compiled from all the info I had at the time, and is attributed to an anonymous, to you, source. You need to read more of my posts more closely, I think, and not go running off to conclusions, as I usually couch what I say very carefully, following the well know CYA policy. Finally, we need to pay more attention to clipping the extraneous Yahoo! added stuff at the end of our messages <g>. I clipped off three of those before writing this <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS At first, I thought you got taken in by one of them email hoaxes. ;-) Further, you didn't list any sources for your info and while I know you are usually diligent, I wanted to verify and source the info so that folks would know that it's true... but that also DFS has acknowledged the issue and is working on fixing it. Yours did not include the follow-up comments by Gordon Magee, the Marketing Director for DFS. You know the cover-up is always worse than the crime. ;-) In my best any-politician-nowadays voice... "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is" or "I am not a crook!" Your snip (this should have been 'post', not snip) stated that DFS has a "relationship" with HSUS but they do not... except for sharing customer addresses with other mass-mailers, FOR CUSTOMERS THAT LIKELY GAVE THEM THE OK TO DO SO. If a customer doesn't check off the boxes to NOT share their info or sometimes customers will intentionally check off the boxes to allow 3rd-party sharing, then DFS can't be blamed for that... although I don't think they should have shared it with HSUS which might be considered an arch-enemy of a company like DFS. HSUS claims to have 11 million members and I bet that half of them do not have a clue who they are in bed with. Even Rush Limbaugh got snookered by HSUS and he did the two PSA's for them about their specific issues concerning Michael Vick and another issue but HSUS then blasted his name all over the internet saying that Rush supports them but he doesn't support much of what they do, only those two issues. Still, he gets so much grief from his customer base that I'm sure he regrets even doing those two issue-oriented PSA's. HSUS also lists my Republican U.S. Senator, David Vitter, as being a supporter but Vitter does not support 90% of what they do, but got caught saying that he did support some of their efforts... and HSUS ran with that as an endorsement in order to snooker in more folks. I equate HSUS to ACORN in the way that they do things to appear being a legitimate organization and do some good but then they do so many bad things, bribe so many politicians and mislead so many people with much of what they do that the good is not enough to overcome the bad. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, Your long winded explanation ends up saying exactly what the short snip I provided says. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47422	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Don't know where my other post went, but it contained an inaccuracy. Fosters and Smith does still sell live fish. http://www.liveaquaria.com/ They just reorganized them right out of my aquatic catalog. I learned this while looking for Fosters and Smith's corporated address and leadership. We need to complain to those people; not to customer support. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <Deenerz@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Steve, Thank you for making us aware of this. I am going to unsubscribe because of their association with the HSUS. Also going to share it with people on other groups and my Facebook account. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 8:18 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47423	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

How to reach Fosters & Smith I can see Steve DID actually write to them. Fosters & Smith, Inc. 2253 Air Park Road Rhinelander, WI 54501 Ray Foster and Marty Smith, co CEO's. Some but not all versions of the address add PO Box 100 under 2253 Air Park Road. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47424	From: Noura	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks

Despite all the things that almost went wrong while raising those babies "temperature and heater problems if my memory if right", you got a TERRIFIC 44% survival rate, I think that's an accomplishment with egg layers. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks Thanks, Noura - I have twenty two babies. I think there were around fifty that hatched... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Noura wrote: > Not babies at all, they look amazing Lainey. > How many of them survived eventually? > btw, that folder needs some "trimming" as there are lots of almsot > repeated photos or photos that show "nothing" when the fry were too > small. > Limiting the number of photos by half will make an excellent > reference forlder for Rams breeding and fry growth. > > Keep up posted, and let us know when your "babies" start forming > couples! > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:56 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks > > I'm not sure I can call them babies anymore, but here are four new > pictures in new photos. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((؛>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((؛> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((؛> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <؛((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<؛((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<؛((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47425	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

They shared our names with the HUS? OK, I'd better revise my letter to them. I don't buy from them so they can share my information with ANYONE!!!!!!! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:57 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS See my previous LONG reply, which puts things in perspective. You of all people should KNOW to check things out before reacting abruptly to something in an email.... OR are you still waiting for your nine million dollars from that deceased politician's nephew in Nigeria? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Steve, Thank you for making us aware of this. I am going to unsubscribe because of their association with the HSUS. Also going to share it with people on other groups and my Facebook account. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 8:18 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47426	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

ONLY if you've given them permission to do so. This is the same with nearly anything we sign up for, whether paper catalogs or email lists. Even your credit cards and banks share information with 3rd parties if you authorize them to do so. The big issue here is that somehow, DFS got duped or their marketing department ignorantly shared some of their customers with HSUS which is an anti-pet organization where DFS sells pets and pet care products so they wouldn't want to share with that type of organization for their customers who allow sharing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS They shared our names with the HUS? OK, I'd better revise my letter to them. I don't buy from them so they can share my information with ANYONE!!!!!!! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:57 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS See my previous LONG reply, which puts things in perspective. You of all people should KNOW to check things out before reacting abruptly to something in an email.... OR are you still waiting for your nine million dollars from that deceased politician's nephew in Nigeria? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Steve, Thank you for making us aware of this. I am going to unsubscribe because of their association with the HSUS. Also going to share it with people on other groups and my Facebook account. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 8:18 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47427	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Just looking at the Facebook page for Drs Foster & Smith, and the first few posts on the wall are more apologies from them, with long strings of comments. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?ref=ts#!/DrsFosterAndSmith?ref=mf http://tinyurl.com/yzdwl5h It appears that they will be reviewing their policy of selling names from their mailing list. At the very least, they will ensure that they do not go to AR groups. And, Lenny, I see the first comment on the issue was posted there at 9:43 PM yesterday, after my research was finished, but before I had written and sent my post. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, First, I gave the information I had at the time. Second, the quoted snip I got, and passed along, said nothing about a relationship with HSUS. That was covered in another part of the e-mail, partially compiled from all the info I had at the time, and is attributed to an anonymous, to you, source. You need to read more of my posts more closely, I think, and not go running off to conclusions, as I usually couch what I say very carefully, following the well know CYA policy. Finally, we need to pay more attention to clipping the extraneous Yahoo! added stuff at the end of our messages <g>. I clipped off three of those before writing this <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS At first, I thought you got taken in by one of them email hoaxes. ;-) Further, you didn't list any sources for your info and while I know you are usually diligent, I wanted to verify and source the info so that folks would know that it's true... but that also DFS has acknowledged the issue and is working on fixing it. Yours did not include the follow-up comments by Gordon Magee, the Marketing Director for DFS. You know the cover-up is always worse than the crime. ;-) In my best any-politician-nowadays voice... "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is" or "I am not a crook!" Your snip stated that DFS has a "relationship" with HSUS but they do not... except for sharing customer addresses with other mass-mailers, FOR CUSTOMERS THAT LIKELY GAVE THEM THE OK TO DO SO. If a customer doesn't check off the boxes to NOT share their info or sometimes customers will intentionally check off the boxes to allow 3rd-party sharing, then DFS can't be blamed for that... although I don't think they should have shared it with HSUS which might be considered an arch-enemy of a company like DFS. HSUS claims to have 11 million members and I bet that half of them do not have a clue who they are in bed with. Even Rush Limbaugh got snookered by HSUS and he did the two PSA's for them about their specific issues concerning Michael Vick and another issue but HSUS then blasted his name all over the internet saying that Rush supports them but he doesn't support much of what they do, only those two issues. Still, he gets so much grief from his customer base that I'm sure he regrets even doing those two issue-oriented PSA's. HSUS also lists my Republican U.S. Senator, David Vitter, as being a supporter but Vitter does not support 90% of what they do, but got caught saying that he did support some of their efforts... and HSUS ran with that as an endorsement in order to snooker in more folks. I equate HSUS to ACORN in the way that they do things to appear being a legitimate organization and do some good but then they do so many bad things, bribe so many politicians and mislead so many people with much of what they do that the good is not enough to overcome the bad. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, Your long winded explanation ends up saying exactly what the short snip I provided says. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47428	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Lenny, You need to read the full sentences, and not just the phrases, which are merely a part of the whole. The first sentence you refer to talks about someone who inquired about the relationship F&S had with HSUS. The answer would pretty much be yes or no, yes, we have one, no, we do not have one. The second is merely a statement of fact that someone had posted that F&S had a relationship with HSUS. The third was a sentence about people calling asking F&S about the relationship that had been reported. The fourth was a factual statement about someone who had e-mailed to ask to be removed from the list. In any of those sentences or paragraphs did I report that there was a relationship. Relationship was stated as being used by these other parties about the situation. In none of those instances would I need to define the term as it would mean to myself. They were simply reportage of what others had written. One could not use quotes here, in that one did not actually quote the individuals but paraphrased them to make the narrative shorter, yet keep it much in their own words as was possible to infer their personal meaning. The actual quotes would not have made a difference. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS \\Steve//, You used "relationship" four times in your original post. I errantly typed "snip" instead of post in my last reply. 1st paragraph - "... inquiry about their relationship with HSUS..." 2nd paragraph - "... has a relationship with HSUS..." AND - "... asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS,..." AND - "... because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS..." I'm not sure what your definition of relationship is, but to me, it implies that they are more than just mass-mailers sharing some mailing list info. To me, it implies that they are partners, in an alliance, etc., of some sort. When I have a "relationship" with somebody or some company, it's not "casual". When I share information such as business/customer referrals, websites, etc., it's still not a "relationship", otherwise I would be in "relationships" with everyone out here in this group. I hope you all don't expect palimony if we ever separate. That's another reason why I live in Louisiana, we don't acknowledge so-called common-law marriages.... so don't even try to sue me for palimony. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, First, I gave the information I had at the time. Second, the quoted snip I got, and passed along, said nothing about a relationship with HSUS. That was covered in another part of the e-mail, partially compiled from all the info I had at the time, and is attributed to an anonymous, to you, source. You need to read more of my posts more closely, I think, and not go running off to conclusions, as I usually couch what I say very carefully, following the well know CYA policy. Finally, we need to pay more attention to clipping the extraneous Yahoo! added stuff at the end of our messages <g>. I clipped off three of those before writing this <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS At first, I thought you got taken in by one of them email hoaxes. ;-) Further, you didn't list any sources for your info and while I know you are usually diligent, I wanted to verify and source the info so that folks would know that it's true... but that also DFS has acknowledged the issue and is working on fixing it. Yours did not include the follow-up comments by Gordon Magee, the Marketing Director for DFS. You know the cover-up is always worse than the crime. ;-) In my best any-politician-nowadays voice... "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is" or "I am not a crook!" Your snip (this should have been 'post', not snip) stated that DFS has a "relationship" with HSUS but they do not... except for sharing customer addresses with other mass-mailers, FOR CUSTOMERS THAT LIKELY GAVE THEM THE OK TO DO SO. If a customer doesn't check off the boxes to NOT share their info or sometimes customers will intentionally check off the boxes to allow 3rd-party sharing, then DFS can't be blamed for that... although I don't think they should have shared it with HSUS which might be considered an arch-enemy of a company like DFS. HSUS claims to have 11 million members and I bet that half of them do not have a clue who they are in bed with. Even Rush Limbaugh got snookered by HSUS and he did the two PSA's for them about their specific issues concerning Michael Vick and another issue but HSUS then blasted his name all over the internet saying that Rush supports them but he doesn't support much of what they do, only those two issues. Still, he gets so much grief from his customer base that I'm sure he regrets even doing those two issue-oriented PSA's. HSUS also lists my Republican U.S. Senator, David Vitter, as being a supporter but Vitter does not support 90% of what they do, but got caught saying that he did support some of their efforts... and HSUS ran with that as an endorsement in order to snooker in more folks. I equate HSUS to ACORN in the way that they do things to appear being a legitimate organization and do some good but then they do so many bad things, bribe so many politicians and mislead so many people with much of what they do that the good is not enough to overcome the bad. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, Your long winded explanation ends up saying exactly what the short snip I provided says. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47429	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Dora, I neither stated nor inferred that I wrote to F&S in any of my messages here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS How to reach Fosters & Smith I can see Steve DID actually write to them. Fosters & Smith, Inc. 2253 Air Park Road Rhinelander, WI 54501 Ray Foster and Marty Smith, co CEO's. Some but not all versions of the address add PO Box 100 under 2253 Air Park Road. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47430	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Well, it looks like DFS has finished looking into the HSUS matter and has posted this official statement on their wall, http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?ref=mf : http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith/posts/376300593073 Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - To all of our customers we apologize for the recent concerns raised regarding HSUS(Humane Society of the United States) and questions raised concerning one of their recent mailings. As you are all well aware there are strong and frankly opposing views out in the marketplace about our relationships as human beings to animals. Drs. Foster and Smith is not a political organization, but a pet supply company founded and still run today by veterinarians Dr. Race Foster and Dr. Marty Smith, who care about pet health-care no matter who owns the pet or what the political persuasion is of the person owning that pet. We do not finance political organizations and to be specific, have not financially supported HSUS or any other organization of perhaps a different persuasion than HSUS. As it relates to concerns about privacy, Drs. Foster and Smith never shares customer email addresses with anyone. Never.... Regarding mailings, in the course of doing business catalog companies and other companies rent mailings lists or small portions of them through third party data services. Those lists are never seen by the company renting the list. Let me repeat that for clarity: Those lists are never seen by the company renting the list. Therefore, to answer the concern, HSUS does not have a list of Drs. Foster and Smith customers and never has. Never. HSUS does not have a list of Drs. Foster and Smith customers and never has. Our customer base is broad and includes people from widely divergent political views. Thank you for understanding that our focus as a company is on providing products and services related to pet health-care. Sincerely, Drs. Foster and Smith (END SNIP) I think that pretty much clears things up for all those folks who *acted* outraged without giving DFS a chance to investigate and provide an answer. As \\Steve// stated, he posted his original post even before DFS posted their initial replies that they were looking into the matter. I just KNEW (in my heart, as a businessman) that DFS would not give it's customer's info to a group like HSUS and the "sharing with 3rd parties" thing is explained above to where HSUS never actually saw any of the customers information but rather a 3rd party mailing list operator is likely to have handled the entire transaction. I'm sure they regret the "3rd party" thing immensely at this time because some folks over-reacted and started posting stuff without having sufficient facts.... but DFS knows or should have known that in this age of the internet and instant mass communications at the speed of electrons, they should have made sure that any 3rd parties they ever "rent" their info to should pass the smell test. Of course, it could be that DFS put their list of customers (those who approved 3rd party sharing) up for "rent" with a legitimate list renting business (there are many out there) and then HSUS exploited this naivete' of DFS. I'm betting that HSUS bought the "rental" rights to EVERY list that had anything to do with pet care products as a way of expanding their false advertising hooks into a broader base of people. I feel comfortable with their apology and explanation and am on their site right now putting together an order to show a little sovereignty with them.... during this time of internet hysteria against them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Just looking at the Facebook page for Drs Foster & Smith, and the first few posts on the wall are more apologies from them, with long strings of comments. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?ref=ts#!/DrsFosterAndSmith?ref=mf http://tinyurl.com/yzdwl5h It appears that they will be reviewing their policy of selling names from their mailing list. At the very least, they will ensure that they do not go to AR groups. And, Lenny, I see the first comment on the issue was posted there at 9:43 PM yesterday, after my research was finished, but before I had written and sent my post. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, First, I gave the information I had at the time. Second, the quoted snip I got, and passed along, said nothing about a relationship with HSUS. That was covered in another part of the e-mail, partially compiled from all the info I had at the time, and is attributed to an anonymous, to you, source. You need to read more of my posts more closely, I think, and not go running off to conclusions, as I usually couch what I say very carefully, following the well know CYA policy. Finally, we need to pay more attention to clipping the extraneous Yahoo! added stuff at the end of our messages <g>. I clipped off three of those before writing this <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS At first, I thought you got taken in by one of them email hoaxes. ;-) Further, you didn't list any sources for your info and while I know you are usually diligent, I wanted to verify and source the info so that folks would know that it's true... but that also DFS has acknowledged the issue and is working on fixing it. Yours did not include the follow-up comments by Gordon Magee, the Marketing Director for DFS. You know the cover-up is always worse than the crime. ;-) In my best any-politician-nowadays voice... "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is" or "I am not a crook!" Your snip stated that DFS has a "relationship" with HSUS but they do not... except for sharing customer addresses with other mass-mailers, FOR CUSTOMERS THAT LIKELY GAVE THEM THE OK TO DO SO. If a customer doesn't check off the boxes to NOT share their info or sometimes customers will intentionally check off the boxes to allow 3rd-party sharing, then DFS can't be blamed for that... although I don't think they should have shared it with HSUS which might be considered an arch-enemy of a company like DFS. HSUS claims to have 11 million members and I bet that half of them do not have a clue who they are in bed with. Even Rush Limbaugh got snookered by HSUS and he did the two PSA's for them about their specific issues concerning Michael Vick and another issue but HSUS then blasted his name all over the internet saying that Rush supports them but he doesn't support much of what they do, only those two issues. Still, he gets so much grief from his customer base that I'm sure he regrets even doing those two issue-oriented PSA's. HSUS also lists my Republican U.S. Senator, David Vitter, as being a supporter but Vitter does not support 90% of what they do, but got caught saying that he did support some of their efforts... and HSUS ran with that as an endorsement in order to snooker in more folks. I equate HSUS to ACORN in the way that they do things to appear being a legitimate organization and do some good but then they do so many bad things, bribe so many politicians and mislead so many people with much of what they do that the good is not enough to overcome the bad. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Lenny, Your long winded explanation ends up saying exactly what the short snip I provided says. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS I've never seen the actual HSUS (Humane Society of United States... not actually a gov't agency or even affiliated with the government other than bribing politicians.. oops.. I mean paying contributions to them) listed on DrsFosterSmith.com, LiveAquaria.com, PetEducation.com or their new FosterAndSmithAquatics.com websites. What I have seen is their "Business Partner Programs" where other businesses can generate a little extra income by being an authorized referrer to DFS related websites. I even signed up for this but have never gone through the final stages of getting a referral ID because they used the LinkShare.com program for their affiliate links and that domain gets a lot of email marked as spam. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=481 says, in part... Partner with us to help your organization grow Introducing our Business Accounts Programs Enjoy exclusive discounts, monthly specials, and other members-only promotions from Drs. Foster & Smith. Learn more below about specific programs designed especially for your organization: Non-Profit Organizations > - Humane Societies - Rescue Groups (END SNIP) They also have a PAWS program for non-profits, animal shelters, etc., to earn rewards/cash benefits for their referral of customers. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=480 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pawsup/index.cfm?pawsupid=6 There is certainly a possibility that HSUS has signed up for one or more of those programs and encourages their disciples... oops.. I meant members... to utilize DFS related websites for purchasing pet products to raise money for HSUS. I would like to see that email and header information to verify that in fact, DFS sent it the recipient. Being my usual diligent self, I did a Google of the entire text of that supposed email and found a Facebook page that appears to be legitimately operated by "DrsFosterAndSmith" and the "wall" is showing some discussion of this topic also. http://www.facebook.com/DrsFosterAndSmith?v=wall I keep seeing some (at least one) concerned customer saying that DFS sold their email address to HSUS and DFS admitted to doing this on a small scale and their official reply is contained in these three snips from their replying to comments posted on the "wall". "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi Pamela, we appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry, we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding HSUS going forward." "Drs. Foster and Smith Pet Supplies - Hi - I would like to post a response from our Marketing Manager, Gordon Magee, regarding the HSUS issue (this is in particular to one person below, but it can be applied to all)" "Gordon Magee - Pam, thanks for your note and bringing your concerns to our attention. Believe me, we care very much about the issue you have raised and will be reviewing things internally. My hope is that you'll know that as a company started in the Midwest with Midwestern values about loving and caring for animals, that our position hasn't changed over the past 26 years. Like I said we'll be reviewing things internally and appreciate hearing your concerns." (END SNIPS) I suspect that DFS will refrain from further name exchange with HSUS and other AR groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47431	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Lumpers vs Splitters

Just to give Lenny material, I had to post this link, LOL. Profiles on Cichlid-forum have not been updated yet but it may happen soon. http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2009/f/zt02076p059.pdf For those that don't want to read a 23 page article on scientific classifications, some Lake Malawi mbuna, including the popular Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos commonly known as Maingano have been kicked out of the Melanochromis group and put back into the "unclassified" Pseudotropheus group. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47432	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Lumpers vs Splitters

Great article,  thanx for sharing.  What really caught my attention was the "Lumpers Vs. Splitters" headline.  You're one of the first people I've seen in a while bring that term up.  I hang around with several Scientific types at conferences and meetings (other places on occasion).  I love debating the LVS subject.  To me splitters are out there trying to make a name for themselves by purposely splitting "heirs" into different families and species.  I am more of a lumper myself.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 9:26:18 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Lumpers vs Splitters   Just to give Lenny material, I had to post this link, LOL. Profiles on Cichlid-forum have not been updated yet but it may happen soon. http://www.mapress com/zootaxa/ 2009/f/zt02076p0 59.pdf For those that don't want to read a 23 page article on scientific classifications, some Lake Malawi mbuna, including the popular Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos commonly known as Maingano have been kicked out of the Melanochromis group and put back into the "unclassified" Pseudotropheus group. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47433	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Lumpers vs Splitters

UH OH DONNA... you opened this can of worms again!!! LOL I haven't read it yet.... BUT... does this mostly mean that I'm right? (as usual.. lol... ouch.. I just sprained my shoulder while patting myself on the back... lol) Is there a Cliff's Notes version? :-P Or just your second paragraph? I like Creature's reply which is coming up in this thread and he, like me, seems to think that most of these new Genera creators (splitters) are just trying to create a name for themselves without first making sure that the fish shouldn't be in an existing Genus in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lumpers vs Splitters Just to give Lenny material, I had to post this link, LOL. Profiles on Cichlid-forum have not been updated yet but it may happen soon. http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2009/f/zt02076p059.pdf For those that don't want to read a 23 page article on scientific classifications, some Lake Malawi mbuna, including the popular Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos commonly known as Maingano have been kicked out of the Melanochromis group and put back into the "unclassified" Pseudotropheus group.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47434	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/18/2010
Subject: Re: Lumpers vs Splitters

Did you post the wrong link? That article seems to be about three new Melanochromis species... unless I missed something in my quick glance over the 23 pages. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lumpers vs Splitters Just to give Lenny material, I had to post this link, LOL. Profiles on Cichlid-forum have not been updated yet but it may happen soon. http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2009/f/zt02076p059.pdf For those that don't want to read a 23 page article on scientific classifications, some Lake Malawi mbuna, including the popular Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos commonly known as Maingano have been kicked out of the Melanochromis group and put back into the "unclassified" Pseudotropheus group.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47435	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks

They look fantastic.  You really did a Great job with them.  Keep up the good work.    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 16, 2010 5:56:45 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks   I'm not sure I can call them babies anymore, but here are four new pictures in new photos. Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47436	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks

Thank you all - but really, it's all thanks to Ray! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 19, 2010, at 3:13 AM, john Lewis wrote: > They look fantastic. You really did a Great job with them. > Keep up the good work. > John (aka, "Spawn") > > ________________________________ > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, March 16, 2010 5:56:45 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks > > > I'm not sure I can call them babies anymore, but here are four new > pictures in new photos. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47437	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Microworms - Ray

Hi Ray - I got someone to send me a microworm culture and I set it up as per your specs in a plastic box with oatmeal, sugar, yeast, plus a plastic cover with airholes. However, I'm not sure what happens about keeping the culture going longterm. In a week or so, I will start to see the worms climbing the sides, and I can harvest them by scraping off the sides, I get that part. But then, how long can I continue to harvest them after they start climbing the sides? How do I know when it's time to start a new batch? How much of the current batch do I need to start the new batch? If it starts to smell bad, does that mean I can't use it to start a new batch? Thanks for helping, as always... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47438	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

I misunderstood. I thought that e-mail was a letter you got. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Dora, I neither stated nor inferred that I wrote to F&S in any of my messages here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS How to reach Fosters & Smith I can see Steve DID actually write to them. Fosters & Smith, Inc. 2253 Air Park Road Rhinelander, WI 54501 Ray Foster and Marty Smith, co CEO's. Some but not all versions of the address add PO Box 100 under 2253 Air Park Road. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47439	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

Start a second plastic box and just scrape some of the live worms and add them to the new box while u finish feeding the fish from the first box. Then when the first box dies off, clean it and have it ready for when the second box is about to die off and start again. You'll have an endless supply as long as you don't let one of the boxes die off completely. Here's one of the detailed articles again... http://www.killi.net/feeding/live/cultured/worms/micro/ With lots of other live food articles in the links on the left side. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray Hi Ray - I got someone to send me a microworm culture and I set it up as per your specs in a plastic box with oatmeal, sugar, yeast, plus a plastic cover with airholes. However, I'm not sure what happens about keeping the culture going longterm. In a week or so, I will start to see the worms climbing the sides, and I can harvest them by scraping off the sides, I get that part. But then, how long can I continue to harvest them after they start climbing the sides? How do I know when it's time to start a new batch? How much of the current batch do I need to start the new batch? If it starts to smell bad, does that mean I can't use it to start a new batch? Thanks for helping, as always... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47440	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

I think my confusion is: how do I know when "the second box is about to die off"? :) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 19, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Start a second plastic box and just scrape some of the live worms > and add > them to the new box while u finish feeding the fish from the first > box. > Then when the first box dies off, clean it and have it ready for > when the > second box is about to die off and start again. You'll have an endless > supply as long as you don't let one of the boxes die off completely. > > Here's one of the detailed articles again... > > http://www.killi.net/feeding/live/cultured/worms/micro/ > > With lots of other live food articles in the links on the left side. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray > > Hi Ray - > > I got someone to send me a microworm culture and I set it up as per > your > specs in a plastic box with oatmeal, sugar, yeast, plus a plastic > cover with > airholes. > > However, I'm not sure what happens about keeping the culture going > longterm. > > In a week or so, I will start to see the worms climbing the sides, > and I can > harvest them by scraping off the sides, I get that part. > But then, how long can I continue to harvest them after they start > climbing > the sides? > > How do I know when it's time to start a new batch? > > How much of the current batch do I need to start the new batch? > > If it starts to smell bad, does that mean I can't use it to start a > new > batch? > > Thanks for helping, as always... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47441	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

It will vary, depending on your formula but if you use the same formula each time, the cultures should last the same amount of time, each time... usually a few days to a week to have worms crawling up the sides and then two to three weeks before that one is ready to be tossed so you would want to start your *first* second box around a week after your first box is producing lots of worms. That gives you a week to get the second box growing and the first box should still be producing that entire week. Once the second box is producing well, you'll know your timetable for starting up a culture. Then watch the first box for when it starts to die off and then you'll have a pretty good idea about how long the entire cycle will last for you. Keep a diary of each day (1 thru 30) and make notes of what is happening with the first box and a separate diary on the second box and then you'll have a pretty firm baseline on when to start up a new batch so you'll get maximum time between starting cultures without having to clean the boxes and starting new cultures as often. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 12:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray I think my confusion is: how do I know when "the second box is about to die off"? :) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 19, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Start a second plastic box and just scrape some of the live worms and > add them to the new box while u finish feeding the fish from the first > box. > Then when the first box dies off, clean it and have it ready for when > the second box is about to die off and start again. You'll have an > endless supply as long as you don't let one of the boxes die off > completely. > > Here's one of the detailed articles again... > > http://www.killi.net/feeding/live/cultured/worms/micro/ > > With lots of other live food articles in the links on the left side. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray > > Hi Ray - > > I got someone to send me a microworm culture and I set it up as per > your specs in a plastic box with oatmeal, sugar, yeast, plus a plastic > cover with airholes. > > However, I'm not sure what happens about keeping the culture going > longterm. > > In a week or so, I will start to see the worms climbing the sides, and > I can harvest them by scraping off the sides, I get that part. > But then, how long can I continue to harvest them after they start > climbing the sides? > > How do I know when it's time to start a new batch? > > How much of the current batch do I need to start the new batch? > > If it starts to smell bad, does that mean I can't use it to start a > new batch? > > Thanks for helping, as always... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47442	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: CAE

Yes they stay small, and armored except for their bushy pieces. My Lake Malawi shell dwellers ate the noodles off my male BN head. Took him a year to grow them back to somewhat normal. He is a great breeder though :) "BN pleco’s stay small at around 4”, but I believe they are armored. " -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 6:07 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE A nerite snail will be OK alone in a tank if there are no aggressive fish in it…not OK with mbuna or Tangs IME. One per 10G is recommended if you have algae. Not just any green algae, but only the soft green algae. It will not eat hair or spot algae for instance. BN pleco’s stay small at around 4”, but I believe they are armored. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] CAE Hi Donna, Will a Nerite snail be OK alone in a tank? If it will only eat green algae then I wouldn't dare put more than one per tank, otherwise they may starve to death as there isn't an excessive algae growth in any of my tanks. btw, I never saw a BN pleco in the LFSs before, anyway I don't like any pleco that has the hard "skin" as the common pleco does, it causes some mess and terror when it moves at night, especially when it's 3"+ (which it usually reaches in no time based on my previous experience). Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Ransome To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] CAE I keep Nerite snails, they are fairly delicate (eat only soft green algae, die without it, will not eat regular fish food) and they do not do well with mbuna. Mine are doing OK with peacocks, but the ones in my mbuna tank have exited one way or another. The most commonly successful algae eater for a mbuna tank (but not for a 20G with mbuna I’d say, is a bristlenose pleco. I’ve had about 60/40 success ratio keeping them alive with mbuna. The mbuna are fascinated by the eyes, and if they get carried away “tasting” them, well, you can imagine. IME the mbuna do graze on algae but they just leave lots of little bite marks in it. They don’t make a clean sweep like the bristlenose. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47443	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2010
Subject: Re: Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS

Ok, it only cost me a few hundred a month for the last two years and I am promised to soon have the dead general/expresident of Nigerias main church's millions! so there ;) -Mike OR are you still waiting for your nine million dollars from that deceased politician's nephew in Nigeria? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 9:57 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS See my previous LONG reply, which puts things in perspective. You of all people should KNOW to check things out before reacting abruptly to something in an email.... OR are you still waiting for your nine million dollars from that deceased politician's nephew in Nigeria? ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Steve, Thank you for making us aware of this. I am going to unsubscribe because of their association with the HSUS. Also going to share it with people on other groups and my Facebook account. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 8:18 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Drs. Foster & Smith Mail list & HSUS Below is reproduced, in part, a reply received from Drs. Foster & Smith in answer to an inquiry about their relationship with HSUS (The Humane Society of America). HSUS is not what it seems to the average person. It is a very bad group when it comes to your animals. (see the thread earlier this week in which I answered a question in a post by Ray explaining in part AR groups and their general stand against animals, along with the fact that they have not yet gotten to those who keep fish yet), And let us not start a number of threads that really have no relation to the main topics of this list. Some one had posted on another list that Drs. Foster & Smith has a relationship with HSUS. Some had called Drs. Foster & Smith and asked if the company had a relationship with HSUS, and received answers in the affirmative. They asked to be removed from the mailing list. One person, at least, e-mailed the company to ask to be removed from the list because of the relationship that was reported between the company and HSUS. This is what she posted saying it was part of the reply she received: " We appreciate your past loyalty and we would never intentionally do anything that would betray that trust. As is common in the catalog industry we share names with companies, and we have shared a small number of names with the HSUS. We do understand your concern and appreciate your opinion. We will reconsider our position regarding the HSUS going forward." \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47444	From: Noura	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks

I'm confident that Ray already got his "Thank you" when he saw those last photos of the Rams "just Rams, not fry, and certainly not babies", what a proud dad he must be :) Right Ray? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lainey Alexander To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks Thank you all - but really, it's all thanks to Ray! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 19, 2010, at 3:13 AM, john Lewis wrote: > They look fantastic. You really did a Great job with them. > Keep up the good work. > John (aka, "Spawn") > > ________________________________ > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, March 16, 2010 5:56:45 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ram babies at nine weeks > > > I'm not sure I can call them babies anymore, but here are four new > pictures in new photos. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47445	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks

Hi Lainey, Thank you very much for the credit you gave me for your success with raising your Ram fry, now juvies -- I certainly appreciate your recognition here. While I was glad to have helped you raising these fry, and am now pleased to see you now have 22 nicely growing juveniles, it ultimately came down to you raising them while folllowing my directions, and you've done nothing short of doing a stellar job with them. Best of luck with them, and thanks again; I couldn't be happier for you. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47446	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

Hi again Lainey, Nice to see that you'ver been able to obtain a microwave culture. First, I'd like to explain my slight delay in getting back to you and others with these posts. I had been up on line yesterday morning until just prior to receiving you last message about your Ram juvies, when I had to sign off and attend to other matters. I had intended to log back on after lunch, but again lost power for the second time in less than a week, this time for about 11 or so hours -- or from about 1 PM yesterday until probably somewhere near midnight last night. Now, getting back to the microworms, I could first add that they're an excellent food for Ram fry (and juvies) old enough to handle them right on up to adult size -- but they ideally should be fed to the fish on a bare bottom as they do not remain suspended in the water like BBS but sink to the bottom -- which I realize I hadn't mentioned before. With having gravel in the tank, any microworms that aren't eaten immediately or in very shory time will fall down into the gravel where it can't be reached. Already now having gravel in your tank, you will have to feed this food to your juvies at a slow enough rate to ensure that most are eaten right away. Since Rams occupy mostly the bottom portion of the tank, they should be able to catch most of this food, but it would be beneficial to add a few Cory catfish to clean up any that reaches the bottom. So as not to add too much more to the bioload, try younger ones of a smaller Cory variety. In addition to the plastic cover for the plastic box, you can also cover it with Saran wrap, which will keep any aroma at a minimum as they do not need air holes -- there is enough air leakage by the plastic wrap since it's never completely air-tight. I thought I had said how long a culture will last, but if not, once they start climbing the container sides (and they'll climb to a maximum of about 2" high on a couple if not all sides), which may take about a week for maximum (2" high) harvest conditions, you can continue to harvest the worms for approximately 2 weeks at least, or until you see a marked decrease in their climbing, to perhaps only 1/4" or so. They will not die out immediately at that point but you will no longer be able to harvest very much (if any), and will have to start another culture at least by then if you want to keep them going before they do die out. If you intend to use these worms as as continuous food source, you'd need to start a new culture about a week before the previous culture declines to its low point -- unless you can wait again until the new culture gets into full swing. As you see right now, a fresh culture is of the similar white color as the oatmeal used for it -- but it will turn tannish as it gets closer to the end of its usefulness. This will be your first clue that the culture is declining. When starting a new culture, place about six or eight 1/8" teaspoon dabs of the old culture around the new mixture to get it started and you'll see it flourishing on top of the mixture by the next day. You can actually see these "mini-worms:" wriggling on the surface of the oatmeal mix,. I've never experienced a culture smelling bad, even when it declines to the point of being past being havestable. I would image that the mixture would eventually have a foul smell if left long enough, but I you only need to keep the old culture around long enough until you see the new culture starting to thrive after the first day or two. Then, you just rinse out the old culture from its box to prevent its smelling bad as it's of no further use. There will always be a very mild but distinguishable odor recognizable as a "working microworm culture," distinct to it but the Saran wrap covering will contain most of this aroma -- and it's not foul smelling. It may just be the smell of the yeast, I do not know. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47447	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Ram babies at nine weeks

Hi Noura, Yeah, great to see what fine juvies Lainey's Ram fry are turning out to be. One more reason for my being so glad to have been able to help her with her raising them to this point. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47448	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Need a new top for my 72g. bow front.....

Lenny, Thanks for all the good information and links. I have been busy and will be taking the pictures today and posting them today. Jim In a message dated 3/17/2010 1:59:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Oh.. one other good thread with some other good info. _http://www.aquaticphttp://www.ahttp://www.aqhttp://wwwhttp://www.aquathttp: /_ (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/30648-splitting-46g-bf) -center-brace--center-brace-<WB_http://tinyurl.http://tiny_ (http://tinyurl.com/ygd8kxh) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _Jpateson@..._ (mailto:Jpateson@...) Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:19 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a new top for my 72g. bow front..... Lenny, I have posted a picture of the back crack I had in photo's. I have since fixed that with a 1/4" piece of Laxax glued to the frame, now the front is starting to show cracks. I have been told by a LFS that on bow front tanks since the major amount of pressure is on the bosed out part of the glass that they have seen this before and the plastic "rim" should be replaced every 5 yrs.... I'm wondering if I should replace the whole tank at this point. Thanks, Jim In a message dated 3/17/2010 11:03:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, _GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:GoldLenny@...) writes: I think I remember your past post but wanted to be sure. Do you have photos uploaded to the group or your own photo album online? Do you mean the plastic frame that covers the glass on the top? Why is it cracking? In the past, I've seen them crack when someone used high-powered HOT lighting like Halogen, Metal Halide, etc., but not for any other reason. While trying to figure out the cause, I would lower the water volume by several inches to relieve some of the pressure on the glass/frame so you don't find yourself with a disaster on your hands. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - __http://GoldLenny.http://GoldLe_ (http://goldlenny.http//Gohtt_) (_http://goldlenny.http://gohttp_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) ) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@From: _AFrom: _Aq_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) [mailto:_AquaticLif[mailto:_Aquat[mailto:_Aqua_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:11 AM To: _AquaticLife@To: _AquaticTo: _AquaticL_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a new top for my 72g. bow front..... It doesn't look good... The plastic rim is now cracking in the front after my fix. Where can I order a new one? Any ideas? I fixed the back and now the front is starting to crack....has anyone replaced one? is it hard? Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`.`<W><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><..<WBR>`.. , <((((><`` We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email _aquaticlife-aquaticlife-<WBRaquati_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47449	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Footnote on ram parents

My ram parents have not spawned again since they had their babies. I think I am realizing why. When they were spawning before, which they were doing regularly every month, I was having lots of water problems due to my tap water. This was my crazy softened well water that I wrote about. So the water was soft, but the pH was around 8 - not sure if that was a factor for the rams or not. But what I do believe is that they were spawning at least in part because I was doing large water changes about three times per week - every week. Now I have switched to RO water, and I only WC once per week. But this past week I did two WCs close together, and I saw the rams acting much more spawn-ready, the way they were before. I"m not sure, of course, but I think this might be the key to my prior success. If I get ready for another spawn the first thing I will do will be frequent WCs. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47450	From: bill 1433	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Footnote on ram parents

ALSO-----------------------are you still feeding them the same LIVE food?   Bill --- On Sat, 3/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Footnote on ram parents To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 20, 2010, 11:09 AM My ram parents have not spawned again since they had their babies. I  think I am realizing why. When they were spawning before, which they  were doing regularly every month, I was having lots of water problems  due to my tap water. This was my crazy softened well water that I  wrote about. So the water was soft, but the pH was around 8 - not  sure if that was a factor for the rams or not. But what I do believe  is that they were spawning at least in part because I was doing large  water changes about three times per week - every week. Now I have  switched to RO water, and I only WC once per week. But this past week  I did two WCs close together, and I saw the rams acting much more  spawn-ready, the way they were before. I"m not sure, of course, but I think this might be the key to my  prior success. If I get ready for another spawn the first thing I  will do will be frequent WCs. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47451	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Footnote on ram parents

I never did feed the ram parents live food - that I recall:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 20, 2010, at 11:23 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > ALSO-----------------------are you still feeding them the same LIVE > food? > > Bill > > --- On Sat, 3/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Footnote on ram parents > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, March 20, 2010, 11:09 AM > > My ram parents have not spawned again since they had their babies. I > think I am realizing why. When they were spawning before, which they > were doing regularly every month, I was having lots of water problems > due to my tap water. This was my crazy softened well water that I > wrote about. So the water was soft, but the pH was around 8 - not > sure if that was a factor for the rams or not. But what I do believe > is that they were spawning at least in part because I was doing large > water changes about three times per week - every week. Now I have > switched to RO water, and I only WC once per week. But this past week > I did two WCs close together, and I saw the rams acting much more > spawn-ready, the way they were before. > > I"m not sure, of course, but I think this might be the key to my > prior success. If I get ready for another spawn the first thing I > will do will be frequent WCs. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47452	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Footnote on ram parents

Just to be clear, you aren't using *only* RO water... are you? Or are you using Kent's RO Right or another additive to the RO water to bring it back to livable water parameters? I think you are but whenever you post that you are using RO water, you should also add what you are doing to the RO water to make it "right" so other newbie's do not get inadvertently misled... and so the rest of us know we don't have to do a follow-up. :-P Yes, your frequent PWC's were certainly a contributor to the spawning activity. In the wild, many fish will spawn during the spring season.... because of all the March and April rainfall and melting snow that gives them lots of *natural* water changes. The rain and melting snow are also, usually, a softer and lower pH water, which in the wild, will also get many fish in the *mood* for love. This is a common trick used by breeders to get their fish spawning... good feeding of live foods (that got washed into the water from the rain fall in nature) and the softer, lower pH water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Footnote on ram parents My ram parents have not spawned again since they had their babies. I think I am realizing why. When they were spawning before, which they were doing regularly every month, I was having lots of water problems due to my tap water. This was my crazy softened well water that I wrote about. So the water was soft, but the pH was around 8 - not sure if that was a factor for the rams or not. But what I do believe is that they were spawning at least in part because I was doing large water changes about three times per week - every week. Now I have switched to RO water, and I only WC once per week. But this past week I did two WCs close together, and I saw the rams acting much more spawn-ready, the way they were before. I"m not sure, of course, but I think this might be the key to my prior success. If I get ready for another spawn the first thing I will do will be frequent WCs. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47453	From: jamesjoy000@att.net	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: pacific blue / regal tang

Hi all I am a new member and wanted to know of anyone who has had longterm success with the pacific blue in a reef with cleaner shrimp. I am asking because I have had an ick breakout and all fish recovered on their own except the regal. And will avoid another if this is common I am aware of aggression, overstocking, and ample hiding places being crucial. thanks joy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47454	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

I like the typo of microwave in the first line, Ray:) - something, along with a dishwasher, I have never owned! I'm not using the microworms for the rams as they have moved on to much bigger foods and plenty of them, often. I am using them for scarlet badis, sparkling gouramis and my dwarf puffer. I had not thought of them sinking in the gravel, good point there. However, my tanks are all densely planted so it is my assumption that embedded foods will be broken down and then taken up by plant roots? I do have cories in each tank as well as hillstream loaches. Thank you for all the culturing information. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 20, 2010, at 7:56 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Hi again Lainey, Nice to see that you'ver been able to obtain a > microwave > culture. First, I'd like to explain my slight delay in getting back > to you > and others with these posts. I had been up on line yesterday > morning until > just prior to receiving you last message about your Ram juvies, > when I had to > sign off and attend to other matters. I had intended to log back on > after > lunch, but again lost power for the second time in less than a > week, this > time for about 11 or so hours -- or from about 1 PM yesterday until > probably > somewhere near midnight last night. > > Now, getting back to the microworms, I could first add that they're an > excellent food for Ram fry (and juvies) old enough to handle them > right on up to > adult size -- but they ideally should be fed to the fish on a bare > bottom > as they do not remain suspended in the water like BBS but sink to > the bottom > -- which I realize I hadn't mentioned before. With having gravel in > the > tank, any microworms that aren't eaten immediately or in very shory > time will > fall down into the gravel where it can't be reached. Already now > having > gravel in your tank, you will have to feed this food to your juvies > at a slow > enough rate to ensure that most are eaten right away. Since Rams > occupy > mostly the bottom portion of the tank, they should be able to catch > most of this > food, but it would be beneficial to add a few Cory catfish to clean > up any > that reaches the bottom. So as not to add too much more to the > bioload, try > younger ones of a smaller Cory variety. > > In addition to the plastic cover for the plastic box, you can also > cover it > with Saran wrap, which will keep any aroma at a minimum as they do > not need > air holes -- there is enough air leakage by the plastic wrap since > it's > never completely air-tight. I thought I had said how long a culture > will last, > but if not, once they start climbing the container sides (and > they'll climb > to a maximum of about 2" high on a couple if not all sides), which > may take > about a week for maximum (2" high) harvest conditions, you can > continue to > harvest the worms for approximately 2 weeks at least, or until you > see a > marked decrease in their climbing, to perhaps only 1/4" or so. They > will not > die out immediately at that point but you will no longer be able to > harvest > very much (if any), and will have to start another culture at least > by then > if you want to keep them going before they do die out. If you > intend to use > these worms as as continuous food source, you'd need to start a new > culture > about a week before the previous culture declines to its low point > -- unless > you can wait again until the new culture gets into full swing. > > As you see right now, a fresh culture is of the similar white color > as the > oatmeal used for it -- but it will turn tannish as it gets closer > to the end > of its usefulness. This will be your first clue that the culture is > declining. When starting a new culture, place about six or eight > 1/8" teaspoon > dabs of the old culture around the new mixture to get it started > and you'll > see it flourishing on top of the mixture by the next day. You can > actually > see these "mini-worms:" wriggling on the surface of the oatmeal mix,. > > I've never experienced a culture smelling bad, even when it > declines to the > point of being past being havestable. I would image that the > mixture would > eventually have a foul smell if left long enough, but I you only > need to > keep the old culture around long enough until you see the new > culture starting > to thrive after the first day or two. Then, you just rinse out the old > culture from its box to prevent its smelling bad as it's of no > further use. > There will always be a very mild but distinguishable odor > recognizable as a > "working microworm culture," distinct to it but the Saran wrap > covering will > contain most of this aroma -- and it's not foul smelling. It may > just be the > smell of the yeast, I do not know. Ray > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47455	From: William M	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

Trumpet snails will go into the gravel and eat left over food that gets deep into the gravel and leave plant food in return. That and they help to oxygenate the gravel so that it does not become anaerobic. They will not become overcrowded unless you overfeed them, that is they do not reproduce mu;ch if they do not get mu;ch food. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > I like the typo of microwave in the first line, Ray:) - something, > along with a dishwasher, I have never owned! > > I'm not using the microworms for the rams as they have moved on to > much bigger foods and plenty of them, often. > > I am using them for scarlet badis, sparkling gouramis and my dwarf > puffer. > > I had not thought of them sinking in the gravel, good point there. > > However, my tanks are all densely planted so it is my assumption that > embedded foods will be broken down and then taken up by plant roots? > > I do have cories in each tank as well as hillstream loaches. > > Thank you for all the culturing information. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 20, 2010, at 7:56 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Hi again Lainey, Nice to see that you'ver been able to obtain a > > microwave > > culture. First, I'd like to explain my slight delay in getting back > > to you > > and others with these posts. I had been up on line yesterday > > morning until > > just prior to receiving you last message about your Ram juvies, > > when I had to > > sign off and attend to other matters. I had intended to log back on > > after > > lunch, but again lost power for the second time in less than a > > week, this > > time for about 11 or so hours -- or from about 1 PM yesterday until > > probably > > somewhere near midnight last night. > > > > Now, getting back to the microworms, I could first add that they're an > > excellent food for Ram fry (and juvies) old enough to handle them > > right on up to > > adult size -- but they ideally should be fed to the fish on a bare > > bottom > > as they do not remain suspended in the water like BBS but sink to > > the bottom > > -- which I realize I hadn't mentioned before. With having gravel in > > the > > tank, any microworms that aren't eaten immediately or in very shory > > time will > > fall down into the gravel where it can't be reached. Already now > > having > > gravel in your tank, you will have to feed this food to your juvies > > at a slow > > enough rate to ensure that most are eaten right away. Since Rams > > occupy > > mostly the bottom portion of the tank, they should be able to catch > > most of this > > food, but it would be beneficial to add a few Cory catfish to clean > > up any > > that reaches the bottom. So as not to add too much more to the > > bioload, try > > younger ones of a smaller Cory variety. > > > > In addition to the plastic cover for the plastic box, you can also > > cover it > > with Saran wrap, which will keep any aroma at a minimum as they do > > not need > > air holes -- there is enough air leakage by the plastic wrap since > > it's > > never completely air-tight. I thought I had said how long a culture > > will last, > > but if not, once they start climbing the container sides (and > > they'll climb > > to a maximum of about 2" high on a couple if not all sides), which > > may take > > about a week for maximum (2" high) harvest conditions, you can > > continue to > > harvest the worms for approximately 2 weeks at least, or until you > > see a > > marked decrease in their climbing, to perhaps only 1/4" or so. They > > will not > > die out immediately at that point but you will no longer be able to > > harvest > > very much (if any), and will have to start another culture at least > > by then > > if you want to keep them going before they do die out. If you > > intend to use > > these worms as as continuous food source, you'd need to start a new > > culture > > about a week before the previous culture declines to its low point > > -- unless > > you can wait again until the new culture gets into full swing. > > > > As you see right now, a fresh culture is of the similar white color > > as the > > oatmeal used for it -- but it will turn tannish as it gets closer > > to the end > > of its usefulness. This will be your first clue that the culture is > > declining. When starting a new culture, place about six or eight > > 1/8" teaspoon > > dabs of the old culture around the new mixture to get it started > > and you'll > > see it flourishing on top of the mixture by the next day. You can > > actually > > see these "mini-worms:" wriggling on the surface of the oatmeal mix,. > > > > I've never experienced a culture smelling bad, even when it > > declines to the > > point of being past being havestable. I would image that the > > mixture would > > eventually have a foul smell if left long enough, but I you only > > need to > > keep the old culture around long enough until you see the new > > culture starting > > to thrive after the first day or two. Then, you just rinse out the old > > culture from its box to prevent its smelling bad as it's of no > > further use. > > There will always be a very mild but distinguishable odor > > recognizable as a > > "working microworm culture," distinct to it but the Saran wrap > > covering will > > contain most of this aroma -- and it's not foul smelling. It may > > just be the > > smell of the yeast, I do not know. Ray > > </HTML> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47456	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

Bill, Thanks for this reminder about Trumpet Snails, and their use. This point is too often lost as not everybody keeps snails, but they can easily be kept in check if not overfed. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47457	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/20/2010
Subject: Cool Idea

If you are in the Boston area and have youngin's who have birthday parties, this is an idea you may want to investigate--Aquarium To Go--provided by the Boston Aquarium. If you are not in the Boston area, but in another area local to a public aquarium, you may want to investigate the possibility that they also have a program similar to this. http://www.bostonmamas.com/2010/03/aquarium_to_go.html http://tinyurl.com/yztobxo \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Cool Idea

I know my local aquarium, The Aquarium Of The Americas, run by the Audubon Institute, has four such mobile services, not only the Aquavan from the aquarium, but also the Bugmobile (from the Audubon Insectarium), the Wetlands Express (from the Audubon Nature Institute) and of course, the Zoomobile from the Audubon Zoological Gardens. http://www.auduboninstitute.org/educators/outreachprograms They market more to larger groups than birthday parties but I guess if one is willing to pay their nominal fee, they'll cater to a birthday party as well. OK... I earned my "Promote N'Awlins" points for the month. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cool Idea If you are in the Boston area and have youngin's who have birthday parties, this is an idea you may want to investigate--Aquarium To Go--provided by the Boston Aquarium. If you are not in the Boston area, but in another area local to a public aquarium, you may want to investigate the possibility that they also have a program similar to this. http://www.bostonmamas.com/2010/03/aquarium_to_go.html http://tinyurl.com/yztobxo \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47459	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

Lainey, Yeah, it looks like "microwave" was the first thing that came to my mine when attempting to type "microworm," maybe 'cause I was already thinking about brunch at the time (LOL), or perhaps just an automatic response when I was thinking of the word "micro." That's probably the most used association of the prefix "micro" to be used in the home anyway, and spell-check would never have caught it. I guess I never thought of you as having those fish in mind to feed microworms to, as I don't believe you've ever mentioned them before. I know you have a community tank, where the Ram pair resides, although you've never gone into much detail about it. These other fish you mention, which you'll be feeding the worms to, are some of the out-of-the-ordinary species which can be quite interesting. They're certainly not run of the mill community fish and are very rewarding to watch. Should be interesting to see how they take to the microworms, and at least you have bottom fish to catch any of the leftovers. Hope it all works out. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47460	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

Ray - I have a 37 g community tank where the ram pair lives with rummy nose tetras, agasizii cory catfish, and celestial pearl danios. This was my original tank before my MTS kicked in. Then I got a few more tanks for this and that:) My unusual tank is a 20g community with pygmy cory cats, one hillstream loach, sparkling gouramis, my Indian pea puffer, Poe, and the scarlet badis. This is the tank I need the live foods for. Do you think the microworms is indeed a good choice for this tank - or would you recommend other live foods? I am trying live baby brine while the microworms cook, but it's hard to tell if the scarlet badis are eating them - even with a mag glass. Also not sure Poe is eating them. I'll try harder to monitor this. But if you can recommend a live food that would be better or wouldn't squiggle under gravel, that would be great too. I can't use the trumpet snails because Poe will eat them. I do feed snails to Poe, but he needs other foods as well. Also, to note, all of these fish, including the badis, eat frozen brine. But that is all the badis eat so far. Thanks for ideas... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 21, 2010, at 7:03 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Yeah, it looks like "microwave" was the first thing that > came to > my mine when attempting to type "microworm," maybe 'cause I was > already > thinking about brunch at the time (LOL), or perhaps just an > automatic response > when I was thinking of the word "micro." That's probably the most used > association of the prefix "micro" to be used in the home anyway, > and spell-check > would never have caught it. > > I guess I never thought of you as having those fish in mind to feed > microworms to, as I don't believe you've ever mentioned them > before. I know you > have a community tank, where the Ram pair resides, although you've > never gone > into much detail about it. These other fish you mention, which > you'll be > feeding the worms to, are some of the out-of-the-ordinary species > which can be > quite interesting. They're certainly not run of the mill community > fish > and are very rewarding to watch. Should be interesting to see how > they take > to the microworms, and at least you have bottom fish to catch any > of the > leftovers. Hope it all works out. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47461	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

Lainey, Another small food to consider would be vinegar eels, since you have the Badis (I think yours are now more properly identified as Dario). You might want to invest in a book from Mike Hellweg, _Culturing Live Foods: A Step-by-Step Guide for Culturing One's Own Food for the Home Aquarium_. It pretty well runs the gamut of live foods and how to raise and feed them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray Ray - I have a 37 g community tank where the ram pair lives with rummy nose tetras, agasizii cory catfish, and celestial pearl danios. This was my original tank before my MTS kicked in. Then I got a few more tanks for this and that:) My unusual tank is a 20g community with pygmy cory cats, one hillstream loach, sparkling gouramis, my Indian pea puffer, Poe, and the scarlet badis. This is the tank I need the live foods for. Do you think the microworms is indeed a good choice for this tank - or would you recommend other live foods? I am trying live baby brine while the microworms cook, but it's hard to tell if the scarlet badis are eating them - even with a mag glass. Also not sure Poe is eating them. I'll try harder to monitor this. But if you can recommend a live food that would be better or wouldn't squiggle under gravel, that would be great too. I can't use the trumpet snails because Poe will eat them. I do feed snails to Poe, but he needs other foods as well. Also, to note, all of these fish, including the badis, eat frozen brine. But that is all the badis eat so far. Thanks for ideas... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 21, 2010, at 7:03 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Yeah, it looks like "microwave" was the first thing that > came to > my mine when attempting to type "microworm," maybe 'cause I was > already > thinking about brunch at the time (LOL), or perhaps just an > automatic response > when I was thinking of the word "micro." That's probably the most used > association of the prefix "micro" to be used in the home anyway, > and spell-check > would never have caught it. > > I guess I never thought of you as having those fish in mind to feed > microworms to, as I don't believe you've ever mentioned them > before. I know you > have a community tank, where the Ram pair resides, although you've > never gone > into much detail about it. These other fish you mention, which > you'll be > feeding the worms to, are some of the out-of-the-ordinary species > which can be > quite interesting. They're certainly not run of the mill community > fish > and are very rewarding to watch. Should be interesting to see how > they take > to the microworms, and at least you have bottom fish to catch any > of the > leftovers. Hope it all works out. Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47462	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

Yes, I got this book, Steve, but it doesn't tell me which foods are best for which species. Would I be able to see the vinegar eels to even know if the fish are eating them? Are they visible? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > Another small food to consider would be vinegar eels, since you > have the > Badis (I think yours are now more properly identified as Dario). > > You might want to invest in a book from Mike Hellweg, _Culturing > Live Foods: > A Step-by-Step Guide for Culturing One's Own Food for the Home > Aquarium_. It > pretty well runs the gamut of live foods and how to raise and feed > them. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray > > Ray - > > I have a 37 g community tank where the ram pair lives with rummy nose > tetras, agasizii cory catfish, and celestial pearl danios. This was > my original tank before my MTS kicked in. Then I got a few more tanks > for this and that:) > > My unusual tank is a 20g community with pygmy cory cats, one > hillstream loach, sparkling gouramis, my Indian pea puffer, Poe, and > the scarlet badis. This is the tank I need the live foods for. > > Do you think the microworms is indeed a good choice for this tank - > or would you recommend other live foods? > > I am trying live baby brine while the microworms cook, but it's hard > to tell if the scarlet badis are eating them - even with a mag glass. > Also not sure Poe is eating them. I'll try harder to monitor this. > > But if you can recommend a live food that would be better or wouldn't > squiggle under gravel, that would be great too. I can't use the > trumpet snails because Poe will eat them. > > I do feed snails to Poe, but he needs other foods as well. > > Also, to note, all of these fish, including the badis, eat frozen > brine. But that is all the badis eat so far. > > Thanks for ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 7:03 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Yeah, it looks like "microwave" was the first thing that > > came to > > my mine when attempting to type "microworm," maybe 'cause I was > > already > > thinking about brunch at the time (LOL), or perhaps just an > > automatic response > > when I was thinking of the word "micro." That's probably the most > used > > association of the prefix "micro" to be used in the home anyway, > > and spell-check > > would never have caught it. > > > > I guess I never thought of you as having those fish in mind to feed > > microworms to, as I don't believe you've ever mentioned them > > before. I know you > > have a community tank, where the Ram pair resides, although you've > > never gone > > into much detail about it. These other fish you mention, which > > you'll be > > feeding the worms to, are some of the out-of-the-ordinary species > > which can be > > quite interesting. They're certainly not run of the mill community > > fish > > and are very rewarding to watch. Should be interesting to see how > > they take > > to the microworms, and at least you have bottom fish to catch any > > of the > > leftovers. Hope it all works out. Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47463	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

Yes, they are visible. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray Yes, I got this book, Steve, but it doesn't tell me which foods are best for which species. Would I be able to see the vinegar eels to even know if the fish are eating them? Are they visible? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > Another small food to consider would be vinegar eels, since you > have the > Badis (I think yours are now more properly identified as Dario). > > You might want to invest in a book from Mike Hellweg, _Culturing > Live Foods: > A Step-by-Step Guide for Culturing One's Own Food for the Home > Aquarium_. It > pretty well runs the gamut of live foods and how to raise and feed > them. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray > > Ray - > > I have a 37 g community tank where the ram pair lives with rummy nose > tetras, agasizii cory catfish, and celestial pearl danios. This was > my original tank before my MTS kicked in. Then I got a few more tanks > for this and that:) > > My unusual tank is a 20g community with pygmy cory cats, one > hillstream loach, sparkling gouramis, my Indian pea puffer, Poe, and > the scarlet badis. This is the tank I need the live foods for. > > Do you think the microworms is indeed a good choice for this tank - > or would you recommend other live foods? > > I am trying live baby brine while the microworms cook, but it's hard > to tell if the scarlet badis are eating them - even with a mag glass. > Also not sure Poe is eating them. I'll try harder to monitor this. > > But if you can recommend a live food that would be better or wouldn't > squiggle under gravel, that would be great too. I can't use the > trumpet snails because Poe will eat them. > > I do feed snails to Poe, but he needs other foods as well. > > Also, to note, all of these fish, including the badis, eat frozen > brine. But that is all the badis eat so far. > > Thanks for ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 7:03 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Yeah, it looks like "microwave" was the first thing that > > came to > > my mine when attempting to type "microworm," maybe 'cause I was > > already > > thinking about brunch at the time (LOL), or perhaps just an > > automatic response > > when I was thinking of the word "micro." That's probably the most > used > > association of the prefix "micro" to be used in the home anyway, > > and spell-check > > would never have caught it. > > > > I guess I never thought of you as having those fish in mind to feed > > microworms to, as I don't believe you've ever mentioned them > > before. I know you > > have a community tank, where the Ram pair resides, although you've > > never gone > > into much detail about it. These other fish you mention, which > > you'll be > > feeding the worms to, are some of the out-of-the-ordinary species > > which can be > > quite interesting. They're certainly not run of the mill community > > fish > > and are very rewarding to watch. Should be interesting to see how > > they take > > to the microworms, and at least you have bottom fish to catch any > > of the > > leftovers. Hope it all works out. Ray</HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47464	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

The Mongabay profiles (mostly based on the Fishbase.org profiles) show which live foods a certain fish prefers based on their *natural* diet. Of course, some testing may still be required as not all fish read their profiles and care sheets. Maybe some carnivorous fish have fallen for the AR and propaganda and are now vegans and former plant eating fish have listened to the Eco-terrorists and are now plant-huggers... who knows. ;-) I haven't actually seen my goldfish chaining themselves to my plants at pruning time but they don't really eat them any longer. Of course, I feed them often enough to try and dissuade them from eating the plants in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray Yes, I got this book, Steve, but it doesn't tell me which foods are best for which species. Would I be able to see the vinegar eels to even know if the fish are eating them? Are they visible? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > Another small food to consider would be vinegar eels, since you have > the Badis (I think yours are now more properly identified as Dario). > > You might want to invest in a book from Mike Hellweg, _Culturing Live > Foods: > A Step-by-Step Guide for Culturing One's Own Food for the Home > Aquarium_. It pretty well runs the gamut of live foods and how to > raise and feed them. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray > > Ray - > > I have a 37 g community tank where the ram pair lives with rummy nose > tetras, agasizii cory catfish, and celestial pearl danios. This was my > original tank before my MTS kicked in. Then I got a few more tanks for > this and that:) > > My unusual tank is a 20g community with pygmy cory cats, one > hillstream loach, sparkling gouramis, my Indian pea puffer, Poe, and > the scarlet badis. This is the tank I need the live foods for. > > Do you think the microworms is indeed a good choice for this tank - or > would you recommend other live foods? > > I am trying live baby brine while the microworms cook, but it's hard > to tell if the scarlet badis are eating them - even with a mag glass. > Also not sure Poe is eating them. I'll try harder to monitor this. > > But if you can recommend a live food that would be better or wouldn't > squiggle under gravel, that would be great too. I can't use the > trumpet snails because Poe will eat them. > > I do feed snails to Poe, but he needs other foods as well. > > Also, to note, all of these fish, including the badis, eat frozen > brine. But that is all the badis eat so far. > > Thanks for ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 7:03 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Yeah, it looks like "microwave" was the first thing that > > came to my mine when attempting to type "microworm," maybe 'cause I > > was already thinking about brunch at the time (LOL), or perhaps just > > an automatic response when I was thinking of the word "micro." > > That's probably the most > used > > association of the prefix "micro" to be used in the home anyway, and > > spell-check would never have caught it. > > > > I guess I never thought of you as having those fish in mind to feed > > microworms to, as I don't believe you've ever mentioned them before. > > I know you have a community tank, where the Ram pair resides, > > although you've never gone into much detail about it. These other > > fish you mention, which you'll be feeding the worms to, are some of > > the out-of-the-ordinary species which can be quite interesting. > > They're certainly not run of the mill community fish and are very > > rewarding to watch. Should be interesting to see how they take to > > the microworms, and at least you have bottom fish to catch any of > > the leftovers. Hope it all works out. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47465	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Re: Microworms - Ray

My badis love mosquito larvae. Easy enough to culture - just put a body of water outside for a week or two. Mosquito fish go in all but one of my tubs outside. All the fish love them. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 21, 2010 8:11:05 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Microworms - Ray Ray - I have a 37 g community tank where the ram pair lives with rummy nose tetras, agasizii cory catfish, and celestial pearl danios. This was my original tank before my MTS kicked in. Then I got a few more tanks for this and that:) My unusual tank is a 20g community with pygmy cory cats, one hillstream loach, sparkling gouramis, my Indian pea puffer, Poe, and the scarlet badis. This is the tank I need the live foods for. Do you think the microworms is indeed a good choice for this tank - or would you recommend other live foods? I am trying live baby brine while the microworms cook, but it's hard to tell if the scarlet badis are eating them - even with a mag glass. Also not sure Poe is eating them. I'll try harder to monitor this. But if you can recommend a live food that would be better or wouldn't squiggle under gravel, that would be great too. I can't use the trumpet snails because Poe will eat them. I do feed snails to Poe, but he needs other foods as well. Also, to note, all of these fish, including the badis, eat frozen brine. But that is all the badis eat so far. Thanks for ideas... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 21, 2010, at 7:03 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Yeah, it looks like "microwave" was the first thing that > came to > my mine when attempting to type "microworm," maybe 'cause I was > already > thinking about brunch at the time (LOL), or perhaps just an > automatic response > when I was thinking of the word "micro." That's probably the most used > association of the prefix "micro" to be used in the home anyway, > and spell-check > would never have caught it. > > I guess I never thought of you as having those fish in mind to feed > microworms to, as I don't believe you've ever mentioned them > before. I know you > have a community tank, where the Ram pair resides, although you've > never gone > into much detail about it. These other fish you mention, which > you'll be > feeding the worms to, are some of the out-of-the-ordinary species > which can be > quite interesting. They're certainly not run of the mill community > fish > and are very rewarding to watch. Should be interesting to see how > they take > to the microworms, and at least you have bottom fish to catch any > of the > leftovers. Hope it all works out. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47466	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/21/2010
Subject: Live food experiment

Well, today I saw the microworms climbing their box so I fed my 20g "unusual" tank both microworms and live baby brine. The badis and sparkling gouramis loved both as I saw them eating large quanitities. I don't think many worms made it down to the gravel, there is plenty of flow and they were swirling around getting eaten for quite a while. Only problem is Poe (pea puffer) who showed no interest in either food. I guess HRH will have to get frozen foods hand delivered via baster somehow while the others get the live. It was lots of fun watching the live food feeding frenzy. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47467	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: betta question

Hi all, I've been a lurker for a long time. Guess I just don't have any expertise to share, plus I haven't had a question until now. My betta has something really weird going on. I'm home on spring break, and this is the first time I've seen him since January (the dorm staff thought that we could have a single fish in a bowl as a pet, so I adopted him last semester, but the housing department corrected them, saying that absolutely no pets are allowed, between fall and spring semesters, so he couldn't come back with me). Pisces' fins seem to be shortening. He is starting to look less like a crowntail and more like a regular betta. He doesn't live with any other fish, so it can't be fin nibblers. If his diet might have anything to do with it, he alternates between bloodworms and Bettamin flakes every other day. Is he missing a nutrient? I have been having problems with algae in his bowl, if that makes a difference. The weekly PWC isn't keeping the algae away, so I'm going to do a MAJOR cleaning (to the point where I take him out and put him in a seperate bowl of his own water until we're done) this evening when I have my dad (an experienced aquarist) to help me. I'm suspecting that in my abscence the weekly PWC has been reduced to every second week. I'm rather upset about that, so I'll have to discuss it with my dad since no one else in the house is willing to do PWCs. Maybe I could ask him to do one every weekend, cause he's less busy then. He does work 60+ hours a week even though he's only supposed to work 40, so it's hard for him to get it in, but I still know that it's what's best for Pisces. I'm hoping that he'll be ok with doing a PWC every weekend, but if he can't I might ask him to help me train my sister in how to do a PWC so they can take turns. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47468	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question

I'm assuming you don't have a filter on his bowl, do you have any plants/ornaments that could have sharp edges? Do his fins look fuzzy? Is he still active and eating like normal? Amber Katherine Whitney wrote: > > Hi all, > I've been a lurker for a long time. Guess I just don't have any > expertise to share, plus I haven't had a question until now. My betta > has something really weird going on. > I'm home on spring break, and this is the first time I've seen him > since January (the dorm staff thought that we could have a single fish > in a bowl as a pet, so I adopted him last semester, but the housing > department corrected them, saying that absolutely no pets are allowed, > between fall and spring semesters, so he couldn't come back with me). > Pisces' fins seem to be shortening. He is starting to look less like a > crowntail and more like a regular betta. He doesn't live with any > other fish, so it can't be fin nibblers. If his diet might have > anything to do with it, he alternates between bloodworms and Bettamin > flakes every other day. Is he missing a nutrient? > I have been having problems with algae in his bowl, if that makes a > difference. The weekly PWC isn't keeping the algae away, so I'm going > to do a MAJOR cleaning (to the point where I take him out and put him > in a seperate bowl of his own water until we're done) this evening > when I have my dad (an experienced aquarist) to help me. I'm > suspecting that in my abscence the weekly PWC has been reduced to > every second week. I'm rather upset about that, so I'll have to > discuss it with my dad since no one else in the house is willing to do > PWCs. Maybe I could ask him to do one every weekend, cause he's less > busy then. He does work 60+ hours a week even though he's only > supposed to work 40, so it's hard for him to get it in, but I still > know that it's what's best for Pisces. I'm hoping that he'll be ok > with doing a PWC every weekend, but if he can't I might ask him to > help me train my sister in how to do a PWC so they can take turns. > -Kathy > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47469	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question

DO NOT DO ANYTHING DRASTIC LIKE A TOTAL CLEANING. Fish acclimate to poor water quality over time so the water needs to be fixed over time also or you could cause fish shock issues (pH, osmoregulatory, temperature, etc.)... which is much worse, even deadly, in some cases. You already alluded to the likely cause... reduced maintenance on the bowl... which is also the most likely cause of your algae issues and fin issues. The algae is God's way of helping to clean polluted water so you don't want to get rid of it... until you fix the cause first. If you want to clean part of the bowl, like the part of the bowl that you look through from the front, maybe 1/3rd and leave the back 2/3rd's with algae, that would be OK but don't clean it all. Make sure you are siphoning your gravel well to remove as much detritus as possible from the gravel. I remember you have some live plants. How are they doing? Try not to disturb the roots too much during the gravel vacuuming/siphoning. Bump your PWC's up to twice a week, 25% each time (with water that is the same temperature and has been treated with a dechlor product), and do not over feed and as the ecology of the bowl and the decaying detritus subside, the algae will go away on it's own. If, after several weeks to a month, you think you have things back under control, you can then scrape another 1/3rd of the algae off. Then a few weeks to a month later, do the last 1/3rd. Speaking of dechlor products, make sure your dechlor doesn't have all the junk it as some of the additives they put in some stress-this, slime-that type products can cause fin issues by creating excessive slime coat causing the thin flowing fins to stick together. BTW... the water quality, which is causing the algae issue is likely causing Pisces fin problems as well. As you get the water quality issue improved, his fins should start growing back. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Whitney Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi all, I've been a lurker for a long time. Guess I just don't have any expertise to share, plus I haven't had a question until now. My betta has something really weird going on. I'm home on spring break, and this is the first time I've seen him since January (the dorm staff thought that we could have a single fish in a bowl as a pet, so I adopted him last semester, but the housing department corrected them, saying that absolutely no pets are allowed, between fall and spring semesters, so he couldn't come back with me). Pisces' fins seem to be shortening. He is starting to look less like a crowntail and more like a regular betta. He doesn't live with any other fish, so it can't be fin nibblers. If his diet might have anything to do with it, he alternates between bloodworms and Bettamin flakes every other day. Is he missing a nutrient? I have been having problems with algae in his bowl, if that makes a difference. The weekly PWC isn't keeping the algae away, so I'm going to do a MAJOR cleaning (to the point where I take him out and put him in a seperate bowl of his own water until we're done) this evening when I have my dad (an experienced aquarist) to help me. I'm suspecting that in my abscence the weekly PWC has been reduced to every second week. I'm rather upset about that, so I'll have to discuss it with my dad since no one else in the house is willing to do PWCs. Maybe I could ask him to do one every weekend, cause he's less busy then. He does work 60+ hours a week even though he's only supposed to work 40, so it's hard for him to get it in, but I still know that it's what's best for Pisces. I'm hoping that he'll be ok with doing a PWC every weekend, but if he can't I might ask him to help me train my sister in how to do a PWC so they can take turns. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47470	From: Noura	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question

Hi Kathy, a weekly PWC for a "bowl" is not sufficient, there are more experienced aquarists here, but as a quick thought your Betta needs at least a 25% PWC every other DAY. The Algae problem is probably due to the unsufficient PWCs resulting in a nitrate build-up. As for the fins getting shorter, it seems like a bacterial infection, I used to see that with my Guppies before I took better care of the tank's maintenance, the poor water quality can cause this. If you see cotton-like spots on the edges, then it's probably fungus. I'm sure someone will advise you the right treatment, but from now on you need to make sure that he lives in "clean" water, or get him a 5-10 G tank with a small filter if you can't get your dad or sister to do a PWC every other day, the 5G will not take a much larger space than the bowl, Pisces will still need a weekly PWC in the 5G, but that's much less work anyway, and he'll be much happier, in my opinion. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Whitney To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi all, I've been a lurker for a long time. Guess I just don't have any expertise to share, plus I haven't had a question until now. My betta has something really weird going on. I'm home on spring break, and this is the first time I've seen him since January (the dorm staff thought that we could have a single fish in a bowl as a pet, so I adopted him last semester, but the housing department corrected them, saying that absolutely no pets are allowed, between fall and spring semesters, so he couldn't come back with me). Pisces' fins seem to be shortening. He is starting to look less like a crowntail and more like a regular betta. He doesn't live with any other fish, so it can't be fin nibblers. If his diet might have anything to do with it, he alternates between bloodworms and Bettamin flakes every other day. Is he missing a nutrient? I have been having problems with algae in his bowl, if that makes a difference. The weekly PWC isn't keeping the algae away, so I'm going to do a MAJOR cleaning (to the point where I take him out and put him in a seperate bowl of his own water until we're done) this evening when I have my dad (an experienced aquarist) to help me. I'm suspecting that in my abscence the weekly PWC has been reduced to every second week. I'm rather upset about that, so I'll have to discuss it with my dad since no one else in the house is willing to do PWCs. Maybe I could ask him to do one every weekend, cause he's less busy then. He does work 60+ hours a week even though he's only supposed to work 40, so it's hard for him to get it in, but I still know that it's what's best for Pisces. I'm hoping that he'll be ok with doing a PWC every weekend, but if he can't I might ask him to help me train my sister in how to do a PWC so they can take turns. -Kathy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47471	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question

He might have a bacterial infection that is eating his fins; someone else here will have a better idea what product to treat it with. Or he could be getting his fins on the decorations in his bowl. Betta fins are very delicate. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katherine Whitney" <kl_whitney@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:09 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi all, I've been a lurker for a long time. Guess I just don't have any expertise to share, plus I haven't had a question until now. My betta has something really weird going on. I'm home on spring break, and this is the first time I've seen him since January (the dorm staff thought that we could have a single fish in a bowl as a pet, so I adopted him last semester, but the housing department corrected them, saying that absolutely no pets are allowed, between fall and spring semesters, so he couldn't come back with me). Pisces' fins seem to be shortening. He is starting to look less like a crowntail and more like a regular betta. He doesn't live with any other fish, so it can't be fin nibblers. If his diet might have anything to do with it, he alternates between bloodworms and Bettamin flakes every other day. Is he missing a nutrient? I have been having problems with algae in his bowl, if that makes a difference. The weekly PWC isn't keeping the algae away, so I'm going to do a MAJOR cleaning (to the point where I take him out and put him in a seperate bowl of his own water until we're done) this evening when I have my dad (an experienced aquarist) to help me. I'm suspecting that in my abscence the weekly PWC has been reduced to every second week. I'm rather upset about that, so I'll have to discuss it with my dad since no one else in the house is willing to do PWCs. Maybe I could ask him to do one every weekend, cause he's less busy then. He does work 60+ hours a week even though he's only supposed to work 40, so it's hard for him to get it in, but I still know that it's what's best for Pisces. I'm hoping that he'll be ok with doing a PWC every weekend, but if he can't I might ask him to help me train my sister in how to do a PWC so they can take turns. -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47472	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] betta question

I have my betta in a gallon and a half of water in a critter keeper. I actually change his water completely once a week, stirring up the gravel and then rinsing it with some prepared water. Iv'e found that it's important to acclimate the fish to the new water. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:00 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] betta question DO NOT DO ANYTHING DRASTIC LIKE A TOTAL CLEANING. Fish acclimate to poor water quality over time so the water needs to be fixed over time also or you could cause fish shock issues (pH, osmoregulatory, temperature, etc.)... which is much worse, even deadly, in some cases. You already alluded to the likely cause... reduced maintenance on the bowl... which is also the most likely cause of your algae issues and fin issues. The algae is God's way of helping to clean polluted water so you don't want to get rid of it... until you fix the cause first. If you want to clean part of the bowl, like the part of the bowl that you look through from the front, maybe 1/3rd and leave the back 2/3rd's with algae, that would be OK but don't clean it all. Make sure you are siphoning your gravel well to remove as much detritus as possible from the gravel. I remember you have some live plants. How are they doing? Try not to disturb the roots too much during the gravel vacuuming/siphoning. Bump your PWC's up to twice a week, 25% each time (with water that is the same temperature and has been treated with a dechlor product), and do not over feed and as the ecology of the bowl and the decaying detritus subside, the algae will go away on it's own. If, after several weeks to a month, you think you have things back under control, you can then scrape another 1/3rd of the algae off. Then a few weeks to a month later, do the last 1/3rd. Speaking of dechlor products, make sure your dechlor doesn't have all the junk it as some of the additives they put in some stress-this, slime-that type products can cause fin issues by creating excessive slime coat causing the thin flowing fins to stick together. BTW... the water quality, which is causing the algae issue is likely causing Pisces fin problems as well. As you get the water quality issue improved, his fins should start growing back. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Whitney Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi all, I've been a lurker for a long time. Guess I just don't have any expertise to share, plus I haven't had a question until now. My betta has something really weird going on. I'm home on spring break, and this is the first time I've seen him since January (the dorm staff thought that we could have a single fish in a bowl as a pet, so I adopted him last semester, but the housing department corrected them, saying that absolutely no pets are allowed, between fall and spring semesters, so he couldn't come back with me). Pisces' fins seem to be shortening. He is starting to look less like a crowntail and more like a regular betta. He doesn't live with any other fish, so it can't be fin nibblers. If his diet might have anything to do with it, he alternates between bloodworms and Bettamin flakes every other day. Is he missing a nutrient? I have been having problems with algae in his bowl, if that makes a difference. The weekly PWC isn't keeping the algae away, so I'm going to do a MAJOR cleaning (to the point where I take him out and put him in a seperate bowl of his own water until we're done) this evening when I have my dad (an experienced aquarist) to help me. I'm suspecting that in my abscence the weekly PWC has been reduced to every second week. I'm rather upset about that, so I'll have to discuss it with my dad since no one else in the house is willing to do PWCs. Maybe I could ask him to do one every weekend, cause he's less busy then. He does work 60+ hours a week even though he's only supposed to work 40, so it's hard for him to get it in, but I still know that it's what's best for Pisces. I'm hoping that he'll be ok with doing a PWC every weekend, but if he can't I might ask him to help me train my sister in how to do a PWC so they can take turns. -Kathy ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47473	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question

If she lives in a dorm, she may not be allowed to keep the fish in anything rectangular. Mine does fine with weekly water changes - of course, it's in a gallon and a half of water; it would need every two or three days in a smaller container. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noura" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi Kathy, a weekly PWC for a "bowl" is not sufficient, there are more experienced aquarists here, but as a quick thought your Betta needs at least a 25% PWC every other DAY. The Algae problem is probably due to the unsufficient PWCs resulting in a nitrate build-up. As for the fins getting shorter, it seems like a bacterial infection, I used to see that with my Guppies before I took better care of the tank's maintenance, the poor water quality can cause this. If you see cotton-like spots on the edges, then it's probably fungus. I'm sure someone will advise you the right treatment, but from now on you need to make sure that he lives in "clean" water, or get him a 5-10 G tank with a small filter if you can't get your dad or sister to do a PWC every other day, the 5G will not take a much larger space than the bowl, Pisces will still need a weekly PWC in the 5G, but that's much less work anyway, and he'll be much happier, in my opinion. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Whitney To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi all, I've been a lurker for a long time. Guess I just don't have any expertise to share, plus I haven't had a question until now. My betta has something really weird going on. I'm home on spring break, and this is the first time I've seen him since January (the dorm staff thought that we could have a single fish in a bowl as a pet, so I adopted him last semester, but the housing department corrected them, saying that absolutely no pets are allowed, between fall and spring semesters, so he couldn't come back with me). Pisces' fins seem to be shortening. He is starting to look less like a crowntail and more like a regular betta. He doesn't live with any other fish, so it can't be fin nibblers. If his diet might have anything to do with it, he alternates between bloodworms and Bettamin flakes every other day. Is he missing a nutrient? I have been having problems with algae in his bowl, if that makes a difference. The weekly PWC isn't keeping the algae away, so I'm going to do a MAJOR cleaning (to the point where I take him out and put him in a seperate bowl of his own water until we're done) this evening when I have my dad (an experienced aquarist) to help me. I'm suspecting that in my abscence the weekly PWC has been reduced to every second week. I'm rather upset about that, so I'll have to discuss it with my dad since no one else in the house is willing to do PWCs. Maybe I could ask him to do one every weekend, cause he's less busy then. He does work 60+ hours a week even though he's only supposed to work 40, so it's hard for him to get it in, but I still know that it's what's best for Pisces. I'm hoping that he'll be ok with doing a PWC every weekend, but if he can't I might ask him to help me train my sister in how to do a PWC so they can take turns. -Kathy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47474	From: Noura	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question

I understood the Betta is not allowed in her dorm anymore, and that it's in her parents home now, and will stay there. That's the main issue why she can't keep it well maintained, she's not there, well except for the spring break. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Dora Smith To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] betta question If she lives in a dorm, she may not be allowed to keep the fish in anything rectangular. Mine does fine with weekly water changes - of course, it's in a gallon and a half of water; it would need every two or three days in a smaller container. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noura" <n-taweel@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi Kathy, a weekly PWC for a "bowl" is not sufficient, there are more experienced aquarists here, but as a quick thought your Betta needs at least a 25% PWC every other DAY. The Algae problem is probably due to the unsufficient PWCs resulting in a nitrate build-up. As for the fins getting shorter, it seems like a bacterial infection, I used to see that with my Guppies before I took better care of the tank's maintenance, the poor water quality can cause this. If you see cotton-like spots on the edges, then it's probably fungus. I'm sure someone will advise you the right treatment, but from now on you need to make sure that he lives in "clean" water, or get him a 5-10 G tank with a small filter if you can't get your dad or sister to do a PWC every other day, the 5G will not take a much larger space than the bowl, Pisces will still need a weekly PWC in the 5G, but that's much less work anyway, and he'll be much happier, in my opinion. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Whitney To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi all, I've been a lurker for a long time. Guess I just don't have any expertise to share, plus I haven't had a question until now. My betta has something really weird going on. I'm home on spring break, and this is the first time I've seen him since January (the dorm staff thought that we could have a single fish in a bowl as a pet, so I adopted him last semester, but the housing department corrected them, saying that absolutely no pets are allowed, between fall and spring semesters, so he couldn't come back with me). Pisces' fins seem to be shortening. He is starting to look less like a crowntail and more like a regular betta. He doesn't live with any other fish, so it can't be fin nibblers. If his diet might have anything to do with it, he alternates between bloodworms and Bettamin flakes every other day. Is he missing a nutrient? I have been having problems with algae in his bowl, if that makes a difference. The weekly PWC isn't keeping the algae away, so I'm going to do a MAJOR cleaning (to the point where I take him out and put him in a seperate bowl of his own water until we're done) this evening when I have my dad (an experienced aquarist) to help me. I'm suspecting that in my abscence the weekly PWC has been reduced to every second week. I'm rather upset about that, so I'll have to discuss it with my dad since no one else in the house is willing to do PWCs. Maybe I could ask him to do one every weekend, cause he's less busy then. He does work 60+ hours a week even though he's only supposed to work 40, so it's hard for him to get it in, but I still know that it's what's best for Pisces. I'm hoping that he'll be ok with doing a PWC every weekend, but if he can't I might ask him to help me train my sister in how to do a PWC so they can take turns. -Kathy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47475	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Thanks for all the input

To answer the questions of the size of his enclosure: he lives in a REALLY BIG bowl. I purchased the biggest nonbreakable bowl I could find when I was planning to get a fish. It's got some anacharis, so that keeps the water quality better than a non-planted bowl. He has a little cave to hide in. We did a PWC today (a little over a gallon) and got the filamentous algae out of his plants and off of his little cave. Hopefully with the PWCs getting more frequent the water quality should get gradually better. I'll ask my dad to arrange with my sister which weekends they each should do the PWC. She says she can probably do it, but I'll see if my dad can show her how the first time just to make sure she knows how. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47476	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: betta question

She didn't mention it in her post but in case she hasn't followed up, her bowl is a 4G bowl, not a little bowl so the weekly PWC should be sufficient as long as she's vacuuming the gravel each time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi Kathy, a weekly PWC for a "bowl" is not sufficient, there are more experienced aquarists here, but as a quick thought your Betta needs at least a 25% PWC every other DAY. The Algae problem is probably due to the unsufficient PWCs resulting in a nitrate build-up. As for the fins getting shorter, it seems like a bacterial infection, I used to see that with my Guppies before I took better care of the tank's maintenance, the poor water quality can cause this. If you see cotton-like spots on the edges, then it's probably fungus. I'm sure someone will advise you the right treatment, but from now on you need to make sure that he lives in "clean" water, or get him a 5-10 G tank with a small filter if you can't get your dad or sister to do a PWC every other day, the 5G will not take a much larger space than the bowl, Pisces will still need a weekly PWC in the 5G, but that's much less work anyway, and he'll be much happier, in my opinion. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Katherine Whitney To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] betta question Hi all, I've been a lurker for a long time. Guess I just don't have any expertise to share, plus I haven't had a question until now. My betta has something really weird going on. I'm home on spring break, and this is the first time I've seen him since January (the dorm staff thought that we could have a single fish in a bowl as a pet, so I adopted him last semester, but the housing department corrected them, saying that absolutely no pets are allowed, between fall and spring semesters, so he couldn't come back with me). Pisces' fins seem to be shortening. He is starting to look less like a crowntail and more like a regular betta. He doesn't live with any other fish, so it can't be fin nibblers. If his diet might have anything to do with it, he alternates between bloodworms and Bettamin flakes every other day. Is he missing a nutrient? I have been having problems with algae in his bowl, if that makes a difference. The weekly PWC isn't keeping the algae away, so I'm going to do a MAJOR cleaning (to the point where I take him out and put him in a seperate bowl of his own water until we're done) this evening when I have my dad (an experienced aquarist) to help me. I'm suspecting that in my abscence the weekly PWC has been reduced to every second week. I'm rather upset about that, so I'll have to discuss it with my dad since no one else in the house is willing to do PWCs. Maybe I could ask him to do one every weekend, cause he's less busy then. He does work 60+ hours a week even though he's only supposed to work 40, so it's hard for him to get it in, but I still know that it's what's best for Pisces. I'm hoping that he'll be ok with doing a PWC every weekend, but if he can't I might ask him to help me train my sister in how to do a PWC so they can take turns. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47477	From: Mina	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: dragon fish question

hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 hours a week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. any ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at my local pet store says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i have never had any luck breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. thanks stef.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47478	From: William M	Date: 3/22/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

Try soaking the food in fresh squeezed garlic juice. That should help his/her appetite plus it will help to get rid of internal parasites if any are thee. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mina" <minavladdracula@...> wrote: > > hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 hours a week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. any ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at my local pet store says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i have never had any luck breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. > > any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. > > thanks > > stef. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47479	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

Stef, If you're still keeping your Dragon Fish (Dragon GOBY?) in fresh water, this may well be the reason why it's disinterested in any foods. It may be on the decline from not be maintained in an environment necessary for it as it grows and ages. Juvenile Dragon Gobies may be kept in fresh water, but as they age (after six months or so), they need to gradually be introduced to brackish water. You may have already been keeping this fish in fresh water for a longer length of time than this, which would be the reason why it may be declining in general health unsuited to its needs. When full grown, its brackish water should be at least at a specific gravity of 1.009, but preferably nearer 1.012. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47480	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Titanium grounding probes

John is suggesting that I use titanium grounding probes in my fresh tanks so that I can reach into the water without getting electrocuted. Does anyone know if these work? I have been trying to turn off my electric supply every time I go into the water, but the truth is, I can't seem to force myself to do it every single time, no matter how much I visualize death by frying. So he thinks I need the probes. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47481	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

I believe it was Ray that followed up after your last post about this fish. Did you ever let us know what species it is? There are at least a couple of fish that people commonly call "dragon fish". Do you know the scientific name? Most likely it is a goby or an arowana but let us know. Here is a snip from Wikipedia's take on the "Dragonfish". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfish The black dragonfish is part of the Malacosteid family Barbeled dragonfish, small bioluminescent deep-sea stomiiform fish of the family Stomiidae Arowana, large freshwater osteoglossiform fish of the family Osteoglossidae Lionfishes, showy, venomochodeus marine scorpaeniform fish of the genera Pterois and Dendrochirus, family Scorpaenidae Several species of Seamoths, small gasterosteiform fish of the family Pegasidae Violet Goby, a eel-like brackish-water fish, also known as Dragon Goby (END SNIP) Once you properly identifiy your fish, it will be easier to direct you to better care information for it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mina Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] dragon fish question hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 hours a week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. any ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at my local pet store says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i have never had any luck breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. thanks stef.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47482	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

Hi Lainey, I get these messages from the group and since I have a study in Electronics which would include Electricity, I thought I would comment. Titanium grounds are a good idea for fish safety especially with larger fish that might break the internal heaters made of glass. Normally, unless something is setup really wrong, there should be no voltage in a tank's water. I have stuck my hand into my freshwater tanks and seem to have gotten a charge but what I feel is really a chemical reaction to cuts or sensitive areas of the hand not related to an actual voltage but from the PH or maybe salt content of the water. Electrocution in water generally has to take place in a water that has a high ion content- salf water will do that and /or where really high voltages are concerned. If the tank electronics is fed from a GPF outlet or device then this would keep you safe. Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago On 3/23/2010 10:27 AM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > John is suggesting that I use titanium grounding probes in my fresh > tanks so that I can reach into the water without getting > electrocuted. Does anyone know if these work? > > I have been trying to turn off my electric supply every time I go > into the water, but the truth is, I can't seem to force myself to do > it every single time, no matter how much I visualize death by frying. > So he thinks I need the probes. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47483	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

Thanks for responding, Sam - I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt from this. But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't actually know. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47484	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

I'm not sure they need to be titanium and grounding probes seem to be more common with saltwater tanks due to saltwater being more conductive and because salt is more corrosive. I think, making sure all your aquarium appliances are plugged into a reliable GFCI protected circuit would be safer for YOUR health. The grounding probes, I believe, in theory, make it safer for your fish since the stray voltage is thought to cause lateral line sensory issues... which then leads to stress issues... which then leads to health issues. One or more of the below pages tells you how to test your tank for any stray voltage issues. I think this is what led to the new magnetic mount and through the glass magneto powered powerheads and water circulators that are used more extensively in SW tanks. This means that the electrical wiring doesn't have to go down into the tank like old style powerheads. These new powerheads ain't cheap though! Other than our heaters, we don't *have* to have electrical wiring into our tanks although some folks do go with in-tank filters or other appliances where most filters (HOB's, Canisters, Bubble powered, etc.) do NOT have the motors inside of the tank. http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34410 http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/aquariummaintenancecare/a/aastrayvoltage.ht m OR http://tinyurl.com/yl7a46a http://www.farmertodd.com/library/rkessentials/electricity.asp http://www.fishlore.com/Articles/ElectricalSafety.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes John is suggesting that I use titanium grounding probes in my fresh tanks so that I can reach into the water without getting electrocuted. Does anyone know if these work? I have been trying to turn off my electric supply every time I go into the water, but the truth is, I can't seem to force myself to do it every single time, no matter how much I visualize death by frying. So he thinks I need the probes. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47485	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

I believe Sam will confirm this but as long as you are not bare-footed, standing in water, holding onto something metal that is grounded, etc., then you will not get shocked. Now, if you have bare cement floors and have lots of water spills around your tanks and might occasionally be bare-footed, then you should take precautions but the GFCI would still be your best protection. See my previous reply for more info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes Thanks for responding, Sam - I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt from this. But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't actually know. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47486	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this one ;) LOL Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Thanks for responding, Sam - > > I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. > > I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your > fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or > later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get > shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people > are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen > theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt > from this. > > But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't > actually know. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > > > Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47487	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it has 44 posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and without GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is grounded, which I don't really understand. I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's that simple. But why won't I just do that??? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this > one ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> Thanks for responding, Sam - >> >> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. >> >> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your >> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or >> later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get >> shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people >> are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen >> theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt >> from this. >> >> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't >> actually know. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: >> >>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer >>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47488	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of controversy about the topic everywhere. We don't know if these people were electrocuted or were feeling a reaction to the water from a cut/wound on their arm/hand either. I have often felt stings when putting my hand in only to notice I had a cut on it afterwards and I figure that's why I felt something. I have never once been electrocuted when putting my hand in my planted tanks for pulling out extra plants and trimming up plants. I never turn off any of the electrical items in my tanks either, I'm usually barefoot (but on carpets), and I often spill water, LOL. So perhaps the carpets are the reason I've never been shocked? I don't know. All I know is that it sounds like a myth that needs busting ;) LOL. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it > has 44 posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/> > 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html > > But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and > without GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is > grounded, which I don't really understand. > > I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's > that simple. But why won't I just do that??? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this > > one ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for responding, Sam - > >> > >> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. > >> > >> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your > >> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or > >> later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get > >> shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people > >> are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen > >> theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt > >> from this. > >> > >> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't > >> actually know. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > >> > >>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > >>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47489	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7501919888/m/66119047401 If anyone wants to follow my mythbuster's post (on their forums). :) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it > has 44 posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/> > 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html > > But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and > without GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is > grounded, which I don't really understand. > > I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's > that simple. But why won't I just do that??? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this > > one ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for responding, Sam - > >> > >> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. > >> > >> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your > >> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or > >> later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get > >> shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people > >> are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen > >> theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt > >> from this. > >> > >> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't > >> actually know. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > >> > >>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > >>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47490	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

Amber, I'm not sure if Lainey is getting my replies. Can you forward this reply to her so she will know that I've replied twice with information that should clear things up for her. If she isn't getting my replies, it's probably related to her ISP or email spam filtering/settings and she needs to go into her spam folder and check for other *good* emails that are getting blocked.... or maybe she blocked me intentionally in which case, I need to know so I don't reply to her any longer. LOL I know that I regularly get members of this group that are picked up by my Gmail spam filtering until I mark them as "Not Spam" and then they come through to my Inbox to be downloaded via Outlook. Last but not least, there is a HUGE difference between feeling a shock and getting electrocuted. I've been shocked many times by 110 volt home electricity... and even more so from static electricity, which I'm sure most folks have... but I have never been electrocuted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it has 44 posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and without GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is grounded, which I don't really understand. I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's that simple. But why won't I just do that??? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this one > ;) LOL > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> Thanks for responding, Sam - >> >> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. >> >> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your >> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or >> later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get >> shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people >> are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen >> theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt >> from this. >> >> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't >> actually know. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: >> >>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer >>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47491	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

Your mythbusters thread will likely look much like this one or the one that Lainey did on PlantedTank.net. A decent GFCI (not one from the dollar store) and some basic common sense (like not working bare-footed around water and electricity and not holding onto metal while working around water and electricity) will keep people from winning a Darwy! If they don't follow or have that basic common sense, then we need them to win a Darwy to remove them from the gene pool. ;-) http://www.darwinawards.com/ - "Honoring those who improve the species... by accidentally removing themselves from it!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7501919888/m/66119047401 If anyone wants to follow my mythbuster's post (on their forums). :) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it > has 44 posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/> > 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html > > But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and > without GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is > grounded, which I don't really understand. > > I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's that > simple. But why won't I just do that??? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this one > > ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for responding, Sam - > >> > >> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. > >> > >> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your > >> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner > >> or later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will > >> get shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if > >> people are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can > >> happen theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked > >> or hurt from this. > >> > >> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't > >> actually know. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > >> > >>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > >>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47492	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Cloudy water

Hi Everyone I am a new aquarist with a 20 gallon tank. I have 3 long finned danios, 5 glo fish, 1 neon tetra and one little algae eater that starts with an o and only grows to 2 inches. Additionally I have 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. My water seems a little cloudy to me. My heater is set at 75 and seems to be fine, I've been doing regular water changes, I don't think I am over feeding and I don't seem to have a ton of algae. I have an older model penguin filter with a biowheel. I tried the stuff they sell that supposedly makes the water less cloudy to know avail. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks so much in advance.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47493	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Albino Frog question?

Did I help my frogs or did I do a disservice to them? I had two Albinos and one very small dwarf African frog in a short 5 gallon tank (just a starter tank until they got bigger). A friend offered me a 14 gallon 20 inch high octagon tank for free. So I switched them into that tank. I realized they need to go to the top to breathe and now I wonder if i made a mistake? Am I making them work too hard to breathe? Thanks for your help. Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47494	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

More than likely, you little algae eater is one of the Otocinclus sp. Look at the pictures linked to this profile and see if this is the one you have. If yes, read the profile for more info and care for him/her. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html Did you have more of these or only one to start with? Are your long-finned danios Zebra Danios (lateral or horizontal white/black striping)? If yes, they are the exact same species as your GloFish, presuming these are the genetically altered day-glo colored Zebra Danios, and if so, they should all school together so you will be OK. If they are one of the other Danio species, then you may need to fill up the school for better long term success. You do need to fill up the school for your neon tetra... or rehome him/her to someone else that has some. They are schooling fish and do not do well singly or in less than six to a group. Do you know what kind of Dwarf Aquatic Frogs you have? There are many species... the two most common aquarium frogs being ADF (African Dwarf Frog) and ACF (African Clawed Frog). What are the measurements of your 20G? There are long 20's and taller 20's and that will make a difference in stocking suggestions. If you have the taller 20G, then you should NOT fill up the neon tetra school since that would be overstocking your tank. As far as the cloudiness... is it a whitish color or greenish color? How long has your tank been set up. You said you are new but did not give a time frame. Tell us about your tank maintenance in more details. "Regular water changes" does not tell us if you are doing them weekly, monthly, every six months, etc. I'm hoping it's weekly. Also, what kind of filter maintenance are you doing? Since you are new, I strongly suggest you take one or both of the free online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. You can find links to these tutorials and a LOT more info for newbie's on my blog article, "A to Z of Fish Keeping" http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping (The TinyURL is so Yahoo Group's doesn't break the longer link.) While you are there, also read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning And Maintenance". Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water Hi Everyone I am a new aquarist with a 20 gallon tank. I have 3 long finned danios, 5 glo fish, 1 neon tetra and one little algae eater that starts with an o and only grows to 2 inches. Additionally I have 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. My water seems a little cloudy to me. My heater is set at 75 and seems to be fine, I've been doing regular water changes, I don't think I am over feeding and I don't seem to have a ton of algae. I have an older model penguin filter with a biowheel. I tried the stuff they sell that supposedly makes the water less cloudy to know avail. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks so much in advance.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47495	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?

I would only fill it with around 12" to 16" of water. Either would give you more water volume than the 5G but neither are enough for long term care so a bigger tank is still needed. Until you get the bigger tank, why not put one in the 5G and two in the 14G with 14" of water (that would make it 9.8 gallons). That would bump you up to around 5G per frog which is much better for now. Some of the below sites, while providing some good information, mention only 2.5G to 3G per frog but remember that these are bare minimums and not recommended for long term. If I were going to keep these critters, I'd aim for around 10G per ADF. A single 2" ADF has the body mass of around 10 2" torpedo-shaped fish and I wouldn't keep 10 2" fish in such a small amount of water. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile99.html http://thegab.org/Tropicals/african-dwarf-frogs-care-sheet.html http://www.flippersandfins.net/adfcaresheet.htm http://aquaticfrogs.tripod.com/index.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino Frog question? Did I help my frogs or did I do a disservice to them? I had two Albinos and one very small dwarf African frog in a short 5 gallon tank (just a starter tank until they got bigger). A friend offered me a 14 gallon 20 inch high octagon tank for free. So I switched them into that tank. I realized they need to go to the top to breathe and now I wonder if i made a mistake? Am I making them work too hard to breathe? Thanks for your help. Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47496	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

First, let me clear up some wording that occurs later in this thread. If someone tells you they were electrocuted, you know they are lying, as they would not be able to tell you they were. That needs to be determined by the coroner to be placed on your death certificate. Well, maybe you would want to ask them for their death certificate, in case they have yet to cross over <g>. If someone tells you they got an electric shock, that, may, or, may not be true. You would need to dig a little bit deeper to find out if they were actually shocked or if the tingle they felt was the result of something else. Whether there is free electricity in your water is a difficult question to answer. You will not be able to measure it unless a ground is present, giving it a place to go. If you keep any of the fish that generate an electrical field, for example, black ghosts are one, as are elephant noses and baby whales, you may note unusual behavior from them as they are affected by the electricity in that it interferes with their own--but, if the electricity is present before they are introduced, you may not know enough about their behavior to note any differences in normal behavior. There is some anecdotal information that it affects other fish, but no science that I am aware that supports this--Ray, have you seen any science on this question? Any electrical equipment in or around the tank could be the source. Should you use a grounding rod in your tank (titanium or otherwise)? Well, I don't think you really need one, but then, in all my mumblty-mumble years in the hobby, I've never been shocked placing my hand in the water--well, there was that one time in the pond--boy was that water cold! I suppose it would depend upon your fear of electricity being present in the water in sufficient strength to disrupt your lifestyle. If you do get shocked, please do post us a picture of your hair standing on end. I'm sure you r husband will oblige us by taking it for you <g,d&r>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes Thanks for responding, Sam - I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt from this. But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't actually know. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47497	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?

Oh... besides my previous post, something that might do well for you, while not reaching the 10G per ADF, would be a 20G Long tank which would give them each nearly 7G of water but the tank is only 12" tall and has a 30" by 12" foot print and at nearly 7G per frog, that's twice what those sites recommend as the bare minimum... but a 30G Breeder or 33G Long would be even better. ;-) http://www.alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks-us.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino Frog question? Did I help my frogs or did I do a disservice to them? I had two Albinos and one very small dwarf African frog in a short 5 gallon tank (just a starter tank until they got bigger). A friend offered me a 14 gallon 20 inch high octagon tank for free. So I switched them into that tank. I realized they need to go to the top to breathe and now I wonder if i made a mistake? Am I making them work too hard to breathe? Thanks for your help. Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47498	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

Hi Lainey, As with Myth busters, lots of improper information can fly about that just scares people. I don't argue with anyone- everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What I can tell you is that I have had two and three heaters in a tank at once both glass and aluminum and since high school back in 1973 or 1974 when I started, I have never had an electrical shock of any kind. I also have my own designed LED's lights on as well as a few other connected sensors.There is always the possibility that a tempered glass heater will crack and expose 117Vac to the water but like being hit by lightening, don't stand around and wait as it is highly unlikely. I would venture to say that if you want to add a ground probe to the water, it might not hurt but if the heater breaks near your hand while moving rock or doing something sufficient to break that glass, the ground probe will not do a lot to help you. The comparative distance and ion content in the water determines this- If you are nervous, put your heaters on a switched power strip and before working switch them off. The thing to remember about Electricity is that you have to become part of a circuit to become affected. In my work in electronics of about 37 years, I have worked on televisions and Transmitters with 10 to 20 KV. If you use common sense you will survive. I too, think this scare is getting out of hand! Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago On 3/23/2010 10:54 AM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Thanks for responding, Sam - > > I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. > > I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your > fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or > later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get > shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people > are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen > theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt > from this. > > But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't > actually know. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > > > Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47499	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

I emailed her to see if she's getting your replies, and she should see your reply here under mine so in case she didn't get the first one you sent out she should see this one from me with yours under my reply. Gosh that sounds better in my head than when I typed it all out, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Amber, > > I'm not sure if Lainey is getting my replies. Can you forward this > reply to > her so she will know that I've replied twice with information that should > clear things up for her. > > If she isn't getting my replies, it's probably related to her ISP or email > spam filtering/settings and she needs to go into her spam folder and check > for other *good* emails that are getting blocked.... or maybe she > blocked me > intentionally in which case, I need to know so I don't reply to her any > longer. LOL > > I know that I regularly get members of this group that are picked up by my > Gmail spam filtering until I mark them as "Not Spam" and then they come > through to my Inbox to be downloaded via Outlook. > > Last but not least, there is a HUGE difference between feeling a shock and > getting electrocuted. I've been shocked many times by 110 volt home > electricity... and even more so from static electricity, which I'm > sure most > folks have... but I have never been electrocuted. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes > > I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it > has 44 > posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/> > 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html > > But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and without > GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is grounded, > which I > don't really understand. > > I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's that > simple. But why won't I just do that??? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this one > > ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for responding, Sam - > >> > >> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. > >> > >> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your > >> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner or > >> later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get > >> shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if people > >> are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen > >> theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or hurt > >> from this. > >> > >> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't > >> actually know. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > >> > >>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > >>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47500	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

Thank you so much for your quick response. Yes, I have an otocinclus. And the danios and glo fish are the same species. I started with neon tetras when I began the tank over a month ago (I'd say it's been at least 5 weeks now) and two died. The next "fish guy" I talked to suggested the danios saying the tetras weren't hardy enough to start the cycle with. The danios made it and we added 3 glo fish and one frog, then one week later 2 glo fish, the otociclus and another frog. The frogs are DAFs and very cute! I have been doing a 10-20% water change every week and testing the water for nitrites and nitrates almost daily (the tank was a gift to my seven-year-old twins and they like testing the water). The tank is a 20gallon long. I have a Penguin 170 Biowheel filter system (a hand-me-down, along with the tank)and I have changed the filter cartridge once so far. The manual suggests monthly changes. As for the cloudiness, it seems whitish to me, I guess. It looks almost like the water is foggy. There is a little algae starting to grow on the back glass and on one of the decorations. The tank does not get direct sunlight although the room is pretty sunny. I leave the light on about 12 hours a day. Just so you all know, I did do some research on the internet and bought a book prior to setting up the tank, along with harrassing all the people at PetSmart and PetCo. I've been varying the diet (flake food, seaweed, frog pellets, frozen bloodworms and brinshrimp) and trying hard not to overfeed (I am a mom, it is tough not to try to get everyone to eat something! And then there are the twins who can get a little overzealous). I will look at your links, thank you for that suggestion. I am open to advice that anyone has. Thanks again! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > More than likely, you little algae eater is one of the Otocinclus sp. Look > at the pictures linked to this profile and see if this is the one you have. > If yes, read the profile for more info and care for him/her. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html Did you have more > of these or only one to start with? > > Are your long-finned danios Zebra Danios (lateral or horizontal white/black > striping)? If yes, they are the exact same species as your GloFish, > presuming these are the genetically altered day-glo colored Zebra Danios, > and if so, they should all school together so you will be OK. If they are > one of the other Danio species, then you may need to fill up the school for > better long term success. > > You do need to fill up the school for your neon tetra... or rehome him/her > to someone else that has some. They are schooling fish and do not do well > singly or in less than six to a group. > > Do you know what kind of Dwarf Aquatic Frogs you have? There are many > species... the two most common aquarium frogs being ADF (African Dwarf Frog) > and ACF (African Clawed Frog). > > What are the measurements of your 20G? There are long 20's and taller 20's > and that will make a difference in stocking suggestions. If you have the > taller 20G, then you should NOT fill up the neon tetra school since that > would be overstocking your tank. > > As far as the cloudiness... is it a whitish color or greenish color? > > How long has your tank been set up. You said you are new but did not give a > time frame. > > Tell us about your tank maintenance in more details. "Regular water > changes" does not tell us if you are doing them weekly, monthly, every six > months, etc. I'm hoping it's weekly. > > Also, what kind of filter maintenance are you doing? > > Since you are new, I strongly suggest you take one or both of the free > online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish > keeping. You can find links to these tutorials and a LOT more info for > newbie's on my blog article, "A to Z of Fish Keeping" > http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping (The TinyURL is so Yahoo Group's > doesn't break the longer link.) While you are there, also read my article > on proper "Filter Cleaning And Maintenance". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water > > Hi Everyone > > I am a new aquarist with a 20 gallon tank. I have 3 long finned danios, 5 > glo fish, 1 neon tetra and one little algae eater that starts with an o and > only grows to 2 inches. Additionally I have 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. My > water seems a little cloudy to me. My heater is set at 75 and seems to be > fine, I've been doing regular water changes, I don't think I am over feeding > and I don't seem to have a ton of algae. I have an older model penguin > filter with a biowheel. I tried the stuff they sell that supposedly makes > the water less cloudy to know avail. Do you have any suggestions? > Thanks so much in advance. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47501	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?

They will regularly swim up to the surface, they are aquatic frogs so they do not need to climb out onto land periodically. They will just swim up to the surface when they are low on air. I have an African dwarf frog in a 10 gallon tank, but he was in my 55 gallon tank before that and did just fine getting to the surface for air. I hope you realize that those Albino african clawed frogs get very large and will eventually eat your dwarf frog, not to mention any fish you feed them, or put in the tank. I would put your dwarf frog back into the 5 gallon and leave the albino's in the other tank personally. But if you put a whole new filter on that bigger tank it's going to be going through a whole new nitrifying bacteria cycle. Was the 5 gallon already cycled before you moved all the frogs? How long were they in the 5 gallon. Amber __A_YAHOO_USER__ wrote: > > Did I help my frogs or did I do a disservice to them? > > I had two Albinos and one very small dwarf African frog in a short 5 > gallon tank (just a starter tank until they got bigger). > > A friend offered me a 14 gallon 20 inch high octagon tank for free. > > So I switched them into that tank. > > I realized they need to go to the top to breathe and now I wonder if i > made a mistake? Am I making them work too hard to breathe? > > Thanks for your help. > Joanie > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47502	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

Thanks you guys, I did get Lenny's posts and did read the articles as well as a whole lot of other articles and anecdotal experiences of people with tanks long term as well as posts from electrical engineers and all kinds of good information. Sadly, I think I'm still just as confused as I was before. I think this is one of those topics I just am not ever going to understand. It's like, well, use a GFI and you'll probably be fine. But if the GFI doesn't work, which would be very rare, you could get shocked, or even more rare, die. So you should probably turn off your power bar every time you go in the water, but if you don't you'll probably be fine. But if you're worried about it, don't do that:) Hmmm... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 23, 2010, at 9:42 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I emailed her to see if she's getting your replies, and she should see > your reply here under mine so in case she didn't get the first one you > sent out she should see this one from me with yours under my reply. > Gosh > that sounds better in my head than when I typed it all out, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> Amber, >> >> I'm not sure if Lainey is getting my replies. Can you forward this >> reply to >> her so she will know that I've replied twice with information that >> should >> clear things up for her. >> >> If she isn't getting my replies, it's probably related to her ISP >> or email >> spam filtering/settings and she needs to go into her spam folder >> and check >> for other *good* emails that are getting blocked.... or maybe she >> blocked me >> intentionally in which case, I need to know so I don't reply to >> her any >> longer. LOL >> >> I know that I regularly get members of this group that are picked >> up by my >> Gmail spam filtering until I mark them as "Not Spam" and then they >> come >> through to my Inbox to be downloaded via Outlook. >> >> Last but not least, there is a HUGE difference between feeling a >> shock and >> getting electrocuted. I've been shocked many times by 110 volt home >> electricity... and even more so from static electricity, which I'm >> sure most >> folks have... but I have never been electrocuted. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// >> GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:24 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >> 40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes >> >> I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it >> has 44 >> posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: >> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ >> <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/> >> 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html >> >> But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and >> without >> GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is grounded, >> which I >> don't really understand. >> >> I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's >> that >> simple. But why won't I just do that??? >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this one >>> ;) LOL >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for responding, Sam - >>>> >>>> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. >>>> >>>> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your >>>> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), >>>> sooner or >>>> later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will get >>>> shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if >>>> people >>>> are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can happen >>>> theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked or >>>> hurt >>>> from this. >>>> >>>> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't >>>> actually know. >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>> >>>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer >>>>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47503	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

It's actually better to NOT cycle a tank with fish in it and just use plain ammonia (with no additives) to start the cycle. This stresses the fish and can actually lead to health problems and shortened life spans. But since you're already on the route with fish just keep an eye on your ammonia and nitrite levels. If you don't have any of the vial/dropper test kits you can get a cheap master test kit through walmart and if you can use the ship to store service you can have it sent to your local walmart and pick it up for free without paying shipping, can make a big difference sometimes. Look for API master test kit or Laborett test kit, both are good options to start out with. Try not to get the "dip strips" as they are not as accurate and can easily get wet if you don't close the bottle tightly, which makes them much less accurate. If you already have a good master test kit please check your ammonia, nitrite and nitrates and give us all those numbers please, and your pH too while you're at it. It sounds like you could possibly be having an ammonia bloom, but without all the tests I can't make more than a guess right now. What color is the water cloudiness; white or green or some other color? Your fish tank should be near the end of the cycle but you never can be sure just by the time frame from when you first started the cycle (put fish in the tank and fed them). Things can interrupt the cycle and make it take longer to "finish". Amber twin_chicken_mama wrote: > > Thank you so much for your quick response. Yes, I have an otocinclus. > And the danios and glo fish are the same species. I started with neon > tetras when I began the tank over a month ago (I'd say it's been at > least 5 weeks now) and two died. The next "fish guy" I talked to > suggested the danios saying the tetras weren't hardy enough to start > the cycle with. The danios made it and we added 3 glo fish and one > frog, then one week later 2 glo fish, the otociclus and another frog. > The frogs are DAFs and very cute! I have been doing a 10-20% water > change every week and testing the water for nitrites and nitrates > almost daily (the tank was a gift to my seven-year-old twins and they > like testing the water). The tank is a 20gallon long. I have a Penguin > 170 Biowheel filter system (a hand-me-down, along with the tank)and I > have changed the filter cartridge once so far. The manual suggests > monthly changes. As for the cloudiness, it seems whitish to me, I > guess. It looks almost like the water is foggy. There is a little > algae starting to grow on the back glass and on one of the > decorations. The tank does not get direct sunlight although the room > is pretty sunny. I leave the light on about 12 hours a day. Just so > you all know, I did do some research on the internet and bought a book > prior to setting up the tank, along with harrassing all the people at > PetSmart and PetCo. I've been varying the diet (flake food, seaweed, > frog pellets, frozen bloodworms and brinshrimp) and trying hard not to > overfeed (I am a mom, it is tough not to try to get everyone to eat > something! And then there are the twins who can get a little > overzealous). I will look at your links, thank you for that > suggestion. I am open to advice that anyone has. > > Thanks again! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > More than likely, you little algae eater is one of the Otocinclus > sp. Look > > at the pictures linked to this profile and see if this is the one > you have. > > If yes, read the profile for more info and care for him/her. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html> Did you > have more > > of these or only one to start with? > > > > Are your long-finned danios Zebra Danios (lateral or horizontal > white/black > > striping)? If yes, they are the exact same species as your GloFish, > > presuming these are the genetically altered day-glo colored Zebra > Danios, > > and if so, they should all school together so you will be OK. If > they are > > one of the other Danio species, then you may need to fill up the > school for > > better long term success. > > > > You do need to fill up the school for your neon tetra... or rehome > him/her > > to someone else that has some. They are schooling fish and do not do > well > > singly or in less than six to a group. > > > > Do you know what kind of Dwarf Aquatic Frogs you have? There are many > > species... the two most common aquarium frogs being ADF (African > Dwarf Frog) > > and ACF (African Clawed Frog). > > > > What are the measurements of your 20G? There are long 20's and > taller 20's > > and that will make a difference in stocking suggestions. If you have the > > taller 20G, then you should NOT fill up the neon tetra school since that > > would be overstocking your tank. > > > > As far as the cloudiness... is it a whitish color or greenish color? > > > > How long has your tank been set up. You said you are new but did not > give a > > time frame. > > > > Tell us about your tank maintenance in more details. "Regular water > > changes" does not tell us if you are doing them weekly, monthly, > every six > > months, etc. I'm hoping it's weekly. > > > > Also, what kind of filter maintenance are you doing? > > > > Since you are new, I strongly suggest you take one or both of the free > > online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish > > keeping. You can find links to these tutorials and a LOT more info for > > newbie's on my blog article, "A to Z of Fish Keeping" > > http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping > <http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping> (The TinyURL is so Yahoo > Group's > > doesn't break the longer link.) While you are there, also read my > article > > on proper "Filter Cleaning And Maintenance". > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water > > > > Hi Everyone > > > > I am a new aquarist with a 20 gallon tank. I have 3 long finned > danios, 5 > > glo fish, 1 neon tetra and one little algae eater that starts with > an o and > > only grows to 2 inches. Additionally I have 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. My > > water seems a little cloudy to me. My heater is set at 75 and seems > to be > > fine, I've been doing regular water changes, I don't think I am over > feeding > > and I don't seem to have a ton of algae. I have an older model penguin > > filter with a biowheel. I tried the stuff they sell that supposedly > makes > > the water less cloudy to know avail. Do you have any suggestions? > > Thanks so much in advance. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47504	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

IMO, it boils down to this. If anyone worries that much about getting electrocuted or even severely shocked from their tanks, then they shouldn't get out of the bed or leave their house every day... as it's FAR more dangerous to drive to work every day than it is to do nearly anything else that average people do in their daily lives. In 2009, there were over 33,000 traffic fatalities in America, the overwhelming majority of them NOT caused by drunk drivers or being alcohol related or cell phone related. Even that number, as large as it sounds is ridiculously low with only 1.16 deaths per 100 million miles driven. I couldn't find a statistic for how many fish hobbyists were killed from being electrocuted by their aquariums... likely due to the number being so small that nobody bothered to study it.... so quit worrying... unless you want to be overly cautious and spend the $30.00 or so that it would cost to put in a decent GFCI outlet and a ground probe... with the ground probe being more important to me if the fish were acting funny and you suspected or actually tested and found stray voltage issues in your tank(s). All of this reminds me of a joke I use to tell, before airport security became so paranoid... which went something like this, whenever the topic would come up between airline passengers hanging around the airport. "Whenever I fly, I always carry a bomb with me. After all, what's the chances of two people having a bomb on the same plane?" :-O Obviously, I can't tell that joke around airports anymore, unless I want free meals, transportation and housing for a few years... to and in a federal prison. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes Thanks you guys, I did get Lenny's posts and did read the articles as well as a whole lot of other articles and anecdotal experiences of people with tanks long term as well as posts from electrical engineers and all kinds of good information. Sadly, I think I'm still just as confused as I was before. I think this is one of those topics I just am not ever going to understand. It's like, well, use a GFI and you'll probably be fine. But if the GFI doesn't work, which would be very rare, you could get shocked, or even more rare, die. So you should probably turn off your power bar every time you go in the water, but if you don't you'll probably be fine. But if you're worried about it, don't do that:) Hmmm... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 23, 2010, at 9:42 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I emailed her to see if she's getting your replies, and she should see > your reply here under mine so in case she didn't get the first one you > sent out she should see this one from me with yours under my reply. > Gosh > that sounds better in my head than when I typed it all out, LOL. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> Amber, >> >> I'm not sure if Lainey is getting my replies. Can you forward this >> reply to her so she will know that I've replied twice with >> information that should clear things up for her. >> >> If she isn't getting my replies, it's probably related to her ISP or >> email spam filtering/settings and she needs to go into her spam >> folder and check for other *good* emails that are getting blocked.... >> or maybe she blocked me intentionally in which case, I need to know >> so I don't reply to her any longer. LOL >> >> I know that I regularly get members of this group that are picked up >> by my Gmail spam filtering until I mark them as "Not Spam" and then >> they come through to my Inbox to be downloaded via Outlook. >> >> Last but not least, there is a HUGE difference between feeling a >> shock and getting electrocuted. I've been shocked many times by 110 >> volt home electricity... and even more so from static electricity, >> which I'm sure most folks have... but I have never been electrocuted. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http:// >> GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in above >> reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and >> also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:24 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >> 40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes >> >> I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it >> has 44 posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: >> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ >> <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/> >> 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html >> >> But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and >> without GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is >> grounded, which I don't really understand. >> >> I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's >> that simple. But why won't I just do that??? >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this one >>> ;) LOL >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for responding, Sam - >>>> >>>> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. >>>> >>>> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your >>>> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner >>>> or later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will >>>> get shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if >>>> people are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can >>>> happen theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked >>>> or hurt from this. >>>> >>>> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't >>>> actually know. >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>> >>>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer >>>>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47505	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water

I hope you're reading other threads out here. Just today, someone started a thread about ADF's and I posted several good links for their care. You should get in the habit of changing at least 25% of your water each week, including vacuuming the gravel and doing proper filter maintenance. Read my article. There's no need to change out or throw away them expensive filter cartridges... unless you like donating money to the filter companies, in which case, I'll give you my PayPal account info. ;-) A five week old tank was not ready for the addition of so much additional bioload at one time. That, compounded with your changing the filter cartridge is probably why you are seeing the white cloudiness. This is what we call a bacterial bloom in your water as the many different types of bacteria are trying to catch up with the increased bioload of the tank. The tank probably wasn't fully cycled from the "Cycling With Fish" that you were doing with the tetras and then zebra danios so I can almost guarantee it's not fully cycled now. You should be testing for ammonia as well as nitrite on a frequent, possibly daily basis right now and once your tank has fully "cycled" (Read about "The Nitrogen Cycle" on my A to Z article), then, as long as you are not having issues with the fish or water, it's must a matter of testing the nitrates. Cycling with fish, which is what you are doing, is NOT the recommended method but since you are stuck with it, you need to work your tail off to make sure the fish aren't suffering by testing daily, doing frequent PWC's (25% partial water changes) as needed, sometimes even daily if the test results show it to be necessary. Post your daily numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and any other tests you have and we can help you better. Your algae issues are likely to be from the new tank still cycling and maturing BUT also likely from elevated ammonia/nitrite/nitrate numbers and ALSO from having the lights on so long. There's no need to have lights on for 12 hours a day unless you had a planted tank that required that much lighting. Most don't. Do you have live plants in the tank? Doing research on the net and reading books are good... if you get to a good website or have a good book. Unfortunately, there are many bad books and bad websites. AFAIK, I try to only include links to what I feel are reputable websites in my blog articles or I'll add a disclaimer when a site might have some good info but also have bad info on a regular basis. While I have nothing against buying books, in the day of the internet, it's not something that I waste too much money on any longer for general information. Now, if I want to read a book by a particular author or about a particular subject, nothing beats a good book but for encyclopedic type information, most of it can reliably be found on the net as with any book unless the book has been referred to you by an experienced fish keeper... and that excludes 99.9% of the people that work at PetsMart and Petco... and even most LFS (local fish stores), although you do have a better chance of getting good info from an LFS than at a big-box store. There are exceptions though as I've seen members of this group and other forums that do work for the big-box pet stores. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water Thank you so much for your quick response. Yes, I have an otocinclus. And the danios and glo fish are the same species. I started with neon tetras when I began the tank over a month ago (I'd say it's been at least 5 weeks now) and two died. The next "fish guy" I talked to suggested the danios saying the tetras weren't hardy enough to start the cycle with. The danios made it and we added 3 glo fish and one frog, then one week later 2 glo fish, the otociclus and another frog. The frogs are DAFs and very cute! I have been doing a 10-20% water change every week and testing the water for nitrites and nitrates almost daily (the tank was a gift to my seven-year-old twins and they like testing the water). The tank is a 20gallon long. I have a Penguin 170 Biowheel filter system (a hand-me-down, along with the tank)and I have changed the filter cartridge once so far. The manual suggests monthly changes. As for the cloudiness, it seems whitish to me, I guess. It looks almost like the water is foggy. There is a little algae starting to grow on the back glass and on one of the decorations. The tank does not get direct sunlight although the room is pretty sunny. I leave the light on about 12 hours a day. Just so you all know, I did do some research on the internet and bought a book prior to setting up the tank, along with harrassing all the people at PetSmart and PetCo. I've been varying the diet (flake food, seaweed, frog pellets, frozen bloodworms and brinshrimp) and trying hard not to overfeed (I am a mom, it is tough not to try to get everyone to eat something! And then there are the twins who can get a little overzealous). I will look at your links, thank you for that suggestion. I am open to advice that anyone has. Thanks again! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > More than likely, you little algae eater is one of the Otocinclus sp. > Look at the pictures linked to this profile and see if this is the one you have. > If yes, read the profile for more info and care for him/her. > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Otocinclus_affinis.html Did you have > more of these or only one to start with? > > Are your long-finned danios Zebra Danios (lateral or horizontal > white/black striping)? If yes, they are the exact same species as > your GloFish, presuming these are the genetically altered day-glo > colored Zebra Danios, and if so, they should all school together so > you will be OK. If they are one of the other Danio species, then you > may need to fill up the school for better long term success. > > You do need to fill up the school for your neon tetra... or rehome > him/her to someone else that has some. They are schooling fish and do > not do well singly or in less than six to a group. > > Do you know what kind of Dwarf Aquatic Frogs you have? There are many > species... the two most common aquarium frogs being ADF (African Dwarf > Frog) and ACF (African Clawed Frog). > > What are the measurements of your 20G? There are long 20's and taller > 20's and that will make a difference in stocking suggestions. If you > have the taller 20G, then you should NOT fill up the neon tetra school > since that would be overstocking your tank. > > As far as the cloudiness... is it a whitish color or greenish color? > > How long has your tank been set up. You said you are new but did not > give a time frame. > > Tell us about your tank maintenance in more details. "Regular water > changes" does not tell us if you are doing them weekly, monthly, every > six months, etc. I'm hoping it's weekly. > > Also, what kind of filter maintenance are you doing? > > Since you are new, I strongly suggest you take one or both of the free > online tutorials that will walk you through all of the basics of fish > keeping. You can find links to these tutorials and a LOT more info > for newbie's on my blog article, "A to Z of Fish Keeping" > http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping (The TinyURL is so Yahoo > Group's doesn't break the longer link.) While you are there, also > read my article on proper "Filter Cleaning And Maintenance". > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water > > Hi Everyone > > I am a new aquarist with a 20 gallon tank. I have 3 long finned > danios, 5 glo fish, 1 neon tetra and one little algae eater that > starts with an o and only grows to 2 inches. Additionally I have 2 > dwarf aquatic frogs. My water seems a little cloudy to me. My heater > is set at 75 and seems to be fine, I've been doing regular water > changes, I don't think I am over feeding and I don't seem to have a > ton of algae. I have an older model penguin filter with a biowheel. > I tried the stuff they sell that supposedly makes the water less cloudy to know avail. Do you have any suggestions? > Thanks so much in advance.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47506	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?

Are the albinos definitely ACF's? I believe they have albino ADF's nowadays although I could be mistaken. I think most animals (and humans) can come in albino form since that is related to a recessive pigmentation gene. If they are ACF's, then my previous post about tank size, etc., needs to be updated. The OP can tell by the feet, if they are ACF's or ADF's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Albino Frog question? They will regularly swim up to the surface, they are aquatic frogs so they do not need to climb out onto land periodically. They will just swim up to the surface when they are low on air. I have an African dwarf frog in a 10 gallon tank, but he was in my 55 gallon tank before that and did just fine getting to the surface for air. I hope you realize that those Albino african clawed frogs get very large and will eventually eat your dwarf frog, not to mention any fish you feed them, or put in the tank. I would put your dwarf frog back into the 5 gallon and leave the albino's in the other tank personally. But if you put a whole new filter on that bigger tank it's going to be going through a whole new nitrifying bacteria cycle. Was the 5 gallon already cycled before you moved all the frogs? How long were they in the 5 gallon. Amber __A_YAHOO_USER__ wrote: > > Did I help my frogs or did I do a disservice to them? > > I had two Albinos and one very small dwarf African frog in a short 5 > gallon tank (just a starter tank until they got bigger). > > A friend offered me a 14 gallon 20 inch high octagon tank for free. > > So I switched them into that tank. > > I realized they need to go to the top to breathe and now I wonder if i > made a mistake? Am I making them work too hard to breathe? > > Thanks for your help. > Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47507	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/23/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

Lainey, I can only add that there is still the danger of your knocking the tank's hood/reflector into the water while you're working in the tank (unless you remove it completely, at these times). Then too, if a heater is cracked, it can zap you when you put your hand in the tank, in different degrees of shock from a very minute tingle to throwing you across the room. This all depends on how well you're grounded. I've received shocks of varying degrees because of equipment failures, even though I was using leather-soled shoes -- but on a concrete basement floor (dry), even though tiled (asphalt tiles, not rubber). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47508	From: Mina	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

thank you i will try that --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > Try soaking the food in fresh squeezed garlic juice. That should help his/her appetite plus it will help to get rid of internal parasites if any are thee. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mina" <minavladdracula@> wrote: > > > > hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 hours a week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. any ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at my local pet store says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i have never had any luck breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. > > > > any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. > > > > thanks > > > > stef. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47509	From: Mina	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

i got him at wal mart tag said dragon fish he is long an thin an grey. i added salt to my tank. like the guy at my pet store told me too. said the 10 gal tank was ok for all of my fish. being the one ones going to get big were the plescomus an the dragon fish. my gold fish arnet going to get very big. tony (guy at pet store) said that dragon fish would be ok if he was eating the goldfish an betta food. an gave me brine shrip pelltes. said i could feed him guppies but i have rotten luck keeping guppies an i can affrod to buy them all the time. thanks for all your advice. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I believe it was Ray that followed up after your last post about this fish. > Did you ever let us know what species it is? There are at least a couple of > fish that people commonly call "dragon fish". Do you know the scientific > name? Most likely it is a goby or an arowana but let us know. Here is a > snip from Wikipedia's take on the "Dragonfish". > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfish > > The black dragonfish is part of the Malacosteid family > Barbeled dragonfish, small bioluminescent deep-sea stomiiform fish of the > family Stomiidae > Arowana, large freshwater osteoglossiform fish of the family Osteoglossidae > Lionfishes, showy, venomochodeus marine scorpaeniform fish of the genera > Pterois and Dendrochirus, family Scorpaenidae > Several species of Seamoths, small gasterosteiform fish of the family > Pegasidae > Violet Goby, a eel-like brackish-water fish, also known as Dragon Goby > (END SNIP) > > Once you properly identifiy your fish, it will be easier to direct you to > better care information for it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mina > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] dragon fish question > > hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 gal i > can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 hours a > week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. any > ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was > wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he has lost > intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip pelltes an blood > worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at my local pet store > says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the cash flow to buy guppies > all the time. an i have never had any luck breeding them.tried both common > feeders an fancy ones. > > any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. > > thanks > > stef. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

From all you are telling us, you, like many of us when we started, are getting some really BAD advice from your pet store. From your description, your "dragon fish" is likely an Arowana http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/arow-asi.htm OR http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Scleropages%20formosus.html. These fish grow HUGE... around 3' long and should NOT be kept in a 10G tank at all. For long term success, you would need a tank in the multi-hundred gallon range that would take up at least a wall of your home to give the fish room to swim around. If you keep him very long in the 10G tank, he will not live a full and healthy life. You should bring him back to that store, get your money back and look for a better store to buy fish from. If that is the only store and you have no other choice, then see this article on my blog about properly stocking a 10G tank for long term success. http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking OR http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml You also mention, for the first time, "gold fish" and say they aren't going to get very big but goldfish also get BIG... not as big as the Arowana but still much too large for a 10G tank. I recommend a 55G as the smallest tank for fancy goldfish and at least a 8' long tank or pond for common goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mina Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question i got him at wal mart tag said dragon fish he is long an thin an grey. i added salt to my tank. like the guy at my pet store told me too. said the 10 gal tank was ok for all of my fish. being the one ones going to get big were the plescomus an the dragon fish. my gold fish arnet going to get very big. tony (guy at pet store) said that dragon fish would be ok if he was eating the goldfish an betta food. an gave me brine shrip pelltes. said i could feed him guppies but i have rotten luck keeping guppies an i can affrod to buy them all the time. thanks for all your advice. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I believe it was Ray that followed up after your last post about this fish. > Did you ever let us know what species it is? There are at least a > couple of fish that people commonly call "dragon fish". Do you know > the scientific name? Most likely it is a goby or an arowana but let > us know. Here is a snip from Wikipedia's take on the "Dragonfish". > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfish > > The black dragonfish is part of the Malacosteid family Barbeled > dragonfish, small bioluminescent deep-sea stomiiform fish of the > family Stomiidae Arowana, large freshwater osteoglossiform fish of the > family Osteoglossidae Lionfishes, showy, venomochodeus marine > scorpaeniform fish of the genera Pterois and Dendrochirus, family > Scorpaenidae Several species of Seamoths, small gasterosteiform fish > of the family Pegasidae Violet Goby, a eel-like brackish-water fish, > also known as Dragon Goby (END SNIP) > > Once you properly identifiy your fish, it will be easier to direct you > to better care information for it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Mina > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] dragon fish question > > hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 > gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 hours a > week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. any > ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was > wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he > has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip > pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at > my local pet store says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the > cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i have never had any luck > breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. > > any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. > > thanks > > stef.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47511	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

\\Steve//, Sticking only with freshwater aquarium fishes here, and disregarding larger freshwater fishes (and marine fishes), you can add Ropefish, Stingrays and Catfish to the groups you mentioned as having electroreceptors in their lateral lines -- even though they don't emit electrical currents as do the 3 groups in your post. I don't know specifically which Catfish are thus evolved to have these organs in their lateral lines, but I don't belierve it's just confined to the Electric Catfish. Perhaps most Catfishes have these sensors. While we know that Sharks and Stingrays (marine fishes) possess electroreceptors, from what I've learned, so doi freshwater Stringrays -- having evolved from these lines of their salt water relatives. Most other freshwater aquarium fishes just have mechanoreceptors, with still many of these also having chemoreceptors in their lateral lines -- as far as I know -- which serve in thermal, auditory and vestibular sensing. The first two senses are self-explanatory and the vestibular portion of their endowment allows permits them not only to balance (with the aid of their swim bladders), but allows them both spacial orientation in association with objects and other fish/(es) in their environment -- also allowing them to sense the speed, direction and mass of other fishes in their vicinity, either moving away from them or coming towards them (as would a predator) -- as well as the direction and speed of the water current.. While their chemoreceptors do not have the same function as do electroreceptors, I believe that as chemicals and their reactions in the water column being both physical and electrical in interacting with each other, that the neurons receiving these stimuli may be partially sensitive to electrical charges in their environment even if not to the magnitude as those fishes having electroreceptors are able to sense -- from what I've read and studied about these senses over the years. There is still a lot to learn about fishes' lateral lines and what info they gather from them, but even while I've gone into literature and observations on fishes having lateral line erosion, I've found that their lateral lines can detect differences in pH and their extremes -- not that these aquarium fishes can move out of undesireable areas though (they're stuck with whatever conditions we give them) -- but they will react to extremes not to their liking, negatively -- as stress. As decreased pH levels constitute higher levels of hydrogen ions in the water, this is electronics on a basic atomic scale (chemistry). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47512	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

Lenny, I noticed you "I.D.'d" this fish as an Arowana. I'd suggest you go back and re-read Stef's description of this fish in the reply to you. As stated, he is "long and thin and grey." While this could pertain to an undernourished Arowana < g >, I would think this better fits a Dragon Goby (Violet Goby). If you're not entirely familiar with this fish, just do a few searches for pics of it. It's the "thin" description that steers me toward it being this Goby, coupled to the fact that it's long and GREY (Arowana's are very reflectively silver). But again, the advice from the pet shop is no better for this fish, as it needs MUCH MORE salt than can be given any freshwater tank mates -- especially a Plecostomus. As we know -- NO catfish likes very much salt at all. Now, the diet of this fish is not feeder goldfish, nor guppies, even though it will take them if starving. Neither, should the fish be expected to take brine shrimp pellets, at least not from the surface, and I don't think it would eagerly take any floating Betta food, although it may taker sinking dry foods. This fish is not a carnivorous predator bit instead a scavenger. It will do best on invertibrates, worms and such, like blackworms, frozen bloodworms and even snails (the fish has teeth). It enjoys swimming up into the water column to catch live adult brine shrimp. Larger, grass shrimp may be taken, but again usually as a last resort. I agree with you, this fish should be brought back to the fish store since they never provided correct information on its maintenance in the first place, unless better maintenance and foods are provided -- but that would mean a separate tank, since the needed amount of salt is far in excess of what the catfish (Pleco) can endure. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47513	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

wal mart is currently selling the dragon goby in a lot of their stores, that's probably what she got. Just my 2 cents. Enid ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, March 24, 2010 8:17:02 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question   From all you are telling us, you, like many of us when we started, are getting some really BAD advice from your pet store. From your description, your "dragon fish" is likely an Arowana http://www.thetropi caltank.co. uk/Fishindx/ arow-asi. htm OR http://fish. mongabay. com/species/ Scleropages% 20formosus. html. These fish grow HUGE... around 3' long and should NOT be kept in a 10G tank at all. For long term success, you would need a tank in the multi-hundred gallon range that would take up at least a wall of your home to give the fish room to swim around. If you keep him very long in the 10G tank, he will not live a full and healthy life. You should bring him back to that store, get your money back and look for a better store to buy fish from. If that is the only store and you have no other choice, then see this article on my blog about properly stocking a 10G tank for long term success. http://tinyurl. com/10-Gallon- Stocking OR http://goldlenny. blogspot. com/2007/ 03/haileys- 10-gallon- tank-stocking- list.h tml You also mention, for the first time, "gold fish" and say they aren't going to get very big but goldfish also get BIG... not as big as the Arowana but still much too large for a 10G tank. I recommend a 55G as the smallest tank for fancy goldfish and at least a 8' long tank or pond for common goldfish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mina Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:11 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question i got him at wal mart tag said dragon fish he is long an thin an grey. i added salt to my tank. like the guy at my pet store told me too. said the 10 gal tank was ok for all of my fish. being the one ones going to get big were the plescomus an the dragon fish. my gold fish arnet going to get very big. tony (guy at pet store) said that dragon fish would be ok if he was eating the goldfish an betta food. an gave me brine shrip pelltes. said i could feed him guppies but i have rotten luck keeping guppies an i can affrod to buy them all the time. thanks for all your advice. --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@. ..> wrote: > > I believe it was Ray that followed up after your last post about this fish. > Did you ever let us know what species it is? There are at least a > couple of fish that people commonly call "dragon fish". Do you know > the scientific name? Most likely it is a goby or an arowana but let > us know. Here is a snip from Wikipedia's take on the "Dragonfish" . > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfish > > The black dragonfish is part of the Malacosteid family Barbeled > dragonfish, small bioluminescent deep-sea stomiiform fish of the > family Stomiidae Arowana, large freshwater osteoglossiform fish of the > family Osteoglossidae Lionfishes, showy, venomochodeus marine > scorpaeniform fish of the genera Pterois and Dendrochirus, family > Scorpaenidae Several species of Seamoths, small gasterosteiform fish > of the family Pegasidae Violet Goby, a eel-like brackish-water fish, > also known as Dragon Goby (END SNIP) > > Once you properly identifiy your fish, it will be easier to direct you > to better care information for it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of Mina > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] dragon fish question > > hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 > gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 hours a > week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. any > ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was > wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he > has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip > pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at > my local pet store says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the > cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i have never had any luck > breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. > > any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. > > thanks > > stef. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47514	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

If so a few sites state that dragon goby's need salt (brackish water) and you will have health issues if you don't keep them in brackish water. Obviously it will need a bigger tank too. This is just one of the sites I looked over. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile126.html Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Lenny, I noticed you "I.D.'d" this fish as an Arowana. I'd suggest you go > back and re-read Stef's description of this fish in the reply to you. As > stated, he is "long and thin and grey." While this could pertain to an > undernourished Arowana < g >, I would think this better fits a Dragon > Goby (Violet > Goby). If you're not entirely familiar with this fish, just do a few > searches for pics of it. It's the "thin" description that steers me > toward it > being this Goby, coupled to the fact that it's long and GREY > (Arowana's are > very reflectively silver). > > But again, the advice from the pet shop is no better for this fish, as it > needs MUCH MORE salt than can be given any freshwater tank mates -- > especially a Plecostomus. As we know -- NO catfish likes very much > salt at all. > > Now, the diet of this fish is not feeder goldfish, nor guppies, even > though > it will take them if starving. Neither, should the fish be expected to > take brine shrimp pellets, at least not from the surface, and I don't > think it > would eagerly take any floating Betta food, although it may taker sinking > dry foods. This fish is not a carnivorous predator bit instead a > scavenger. > It will do best on invertibrates, worms and such, like blackworms, frozen > bloodworms and even snails (the fish has teeth). It enjoys swimming up > into > the water column to catch live adult brine shrimp. Larger, grass > shrimp may > be taken, but again usually as a last resort. > > I agree with you, this fish should be brought back to the fish store > since > they never provided correct information on its maintenance in the first > place, unless better maintenance and foods are provided -- but that > would mean a > separate tank, since the needed amount of salt is far in excess of > what the > catfish (Pleco) can endure. Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47515	From: William M	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

But again, the advice from the pet shop is no better for this fish, as it needs MUCH MORE salt than can be given any freshwater tank mates -- especially a Plecostomus. As we know -- NO catfish likes very much salt at all. I will tell you that the silver tip "shark" ( actually a catfish ) will need more slat as it grows and there are salt water catfish so your statement as I put above is incorrect but most aquarium catfish do not like salt in their water except for small amounts. As for the pleco, I think that most pet shops should not sell them except to people that can provide a large enough tank for them long term. The pet shops around here will sell them but not take them back when the out grow the tank so the fish usually dies a long cruel death. I have been trying to get the pet shops around here to sell the smaller "plecos" like the bushy mouth, clown and rubber mouth etc. Some of them will get a few of the smaller ones but people look at the price as opposed to the much larger getting common "plecos" and buy them not knowing that they can get to be up wards of 2 foot long. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Lenny, I noticed you "I.D.'d" this fish as an Arowana. I'd suggest you go > back and re-read Stef's description of this fish in the reply to you. As > stated, he is "long and thin and grey." While this could pertain to an > undernourished Arowana < g >, I would think this better fits a Dragon Goby (Violet > Goby). If you're not entirely familiar with this fish, just do a few > searches for pics of it. It's the "thin" description that steers me toward it > being this Goby, coupled to the fact that it's long and GREY (Arowana's are > very reflectively silver). > > But again, the advice from the pet shop is no better for this fish, as it > needs MUCH MORE salt than can be given any freshwater tank mates -- > especially a Plecostomus. As we know -- NO catfish likes very much salt at all. > > Now, the diet of this fish is not feeder goldfish, nor guppies, even though > it will take them if starving. Neither, should the fish be expected to > take brine shrimp pellets, at least not from the surface, and I don't think it > would eagerly take any floating Betta food, although it may taker sinking > dry foods. This fish is not a carnivorous predator bit instead a scavenger. > It will do best on invertibrates, worms and such, like blackworms, frozen > bloodworms and even snails (the fish has teeth). It enjoys swimming up into > the water column to catch live adult brine shrimp. Larger, grass shrimp may > be taken, but again usually as a last resort. > > I agree with you, this fish should be brought back to the fish store since > they never provided correct information on its maintenance in the first > place, unless better maintenance and foods are provided -- but that would mean a > separate tank, since the needed amount of salt is far in excess of what the > catfish (Pleco) can endure. Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47516	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

Oops... I'll be honest and admit that I didn't look at photos of a "Violet Goby" but presumed it to be violet in color. LOL I figured that "gray" was closer to silver than violet and could be a result of an ill arowana with excessive slime coat. I'm looking at pics of the "Violet Goby" now and see they are indeed a closer match to the description. http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/dbimages/dragon%20goby2(1).jpg http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/dbimages/gobioides_broussonnetii_1(1).jp g How do "namers" come up with some of these common names? I don't see a "violet" fish or a dragon looking fish... but instead, a butt-ugly looking fish. Of course, I call lots of fish butt-ugly so I guess I wouldn't be a very good "namer" either. ;-) Don't worry folks... I think lots of babies are butt-ugly too so I'm not a just a fishist! I'm a babyist also! LOL Below, are reliable information and care sheets on the Violet Goby (Dragon Fish) if that is what you have. These still grow to be rather big fish, up to 20"+ long, so a BIG tank would still be recommended and needed for long term success. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gobioides_broussonnetii.html http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile126.html http://www.fishbase.org/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3856 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question Lenny, I noticed you "I.D.'d" this fish as an Arowana. I'd suggest you go back and re-read Stef's description of this fish in the reply to you. As stated, he is "long and thin and grey." While this could pertain to an undernourished Arowana < g >, I would think this better fits a Dragon Goby (Violet Goby). If you're not entirely familiar with this fish, just do a few searches for pics of it. It's the "thin" description that steers me toward it being this Goby, coupled to the fact that it's long and GREY (Arowana's are very reflectively silver). But again, the advice from the pet shop is no better for this fish, as it needs MUCH MORE salt than can be given any freshwater tank mates -- especially a Plecostomus. As we know -- NO catfish likes very much salt at all. Now, the diet of this fish is not feeder goldfish, nor guppies, even though it will take them if starving. Neither, should the fish be expected to take brine shrimp pellets, at least not from the surface, and I don't think it would eagerly take any floating Betta food, although it may taker sinking dry foods. This fish is not a carnivorous predator bit instead a scavenger. It will do best on invertibrates, worms and such, like blackworms, frozen bloodworms and even snails (the fish has teeth). It enjoys swimming up into the water column to catch live adult brine shrimp. Larger, grass shrimp may be taken, but again usually as a last resort. I agree with you, this fish should be brought back to the fish store since they never provided correct information on its maintenance in the first place, unless better maintenance and foods are provided -- but that would mean a separate tank, since the needed amount of salt is far in excess of what the catfish (Pleco) can endure. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47517	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

Bill, I guess it would depend on which "silver tipped catfish" you're referring to. The Carcharhinus albimarginatus (also called a Silver Tipped Shark) is strictly a freshwater catfish, whereas the Hexanematichthys seemani (too, called a Silver Tipped Shark -- and, Columbian Shark) is one of the very few brackish water catfish I know of. It inhabits coastal areas on the Pacific slope of Columbia. Maybe I should have said -- NO freshwater catfish likes very much salt -- since I WAS talking about freshwater tankmates for this Dragon Goby, which is an impossibility if both fish are to be maintained properly. Or should I have worded it -- MOST catfish don't like very much salt? I guess it's a matter of symantics, but thanks for pointing out at least one brackish water catfish. I think you'd need to agree though, that MOST FRESHWATER catfish do not like very much salt; am I correct? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47518	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

Lenny, In all fairness, I see nothing "violet" about this Goby either, and fail to see how it got this other name. To be sure on the I.D. on this though, I'd suggest you post some links to pics of the fish that we have in mind as the one that Stef has, to allow for a glimps and acknowledgement by the owner that this is indeed the fish in question. Then there will be no mystery about it any longer. Another case where a scientific name would have pinpointed it, but then the store would most likely have given wrong info here too < g >. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47519	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

I did include links to a couple of pictures and a few profiles/care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question Lenny, In all fairness, I see nothing "violet" about this Goby either, and fail to see how it got this other name. To be sure on the I.D. on this though, I'd suggest you post some links to pics of the fish that we have in mind as the one that Stef has, to allow for a glimps and acknowledgement by the owner that this is indeed the fish in question. Then there will be no mystery about it any longer. Another case where a scientific name would have pinpointed it, but then the store would most likely have given wrong info here too < g >. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47520	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Cloudy water and testing results

I went out and bought a master water testing kit with the little test tubes. My Ammonia was 1.0ppm Nitrate was 10.0ppm Nitrite was .25ppm PH was 8.2 Any suggestions on how to correct this would be appreciated. I obviously need to do a water change soon, but it might have to wait until the kids are in bed ;) Thanks for your help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47521	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

If you look at them with light glancing off of their skin, they have a violet iridescence. They are called dragon fish because of the ridge of dorsal fins that resemble the dorsal plates in the popular imagery of dragons. They are pretty cool fish. I have had them in the past. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question I did include links to a couple of pictures and a few profiles/care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@ <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wmconnect.com Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:31 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question Lenny, In all fairness, I see nothing "violet" about this Goby either, and fail to see how it got this other name. To be sure on the I.D. on this though, I'd suggest you post some links to pics of the fish that we have in mind as the one that Stef has, to allow for a glimps and acknowledgement by the owner that this is indeed the fish in question. Then there will be no mystery about it any longer. Another case where a scientific name would have pinpointed it, but then the store would most likely have given wrong info here too < g >. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47522	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results

OK... with such a high pH, you need to get a dechlor product like Seachem's Prime which will neutralize the ammonia. Ammonia become MUCH MORE toxic at higher pH levels so even PWC's will not help you. You can add a pinch of salt per 10G of water to protect your fish from brown blood disease (nitrite poisoning) but it's still best to keep nitrites below the 1.0ppm range, even with the salt (regular table salt will do and you just need a pinch per 10G, dilute it in a cup of water first) You can keep nitrites below that level with PWC's as needed. As I suspected, trashing your filter cartridge at the same time that you added more fish likely caused this issue... although, even adding more fish will cause a mini-cycle to happen with ammonia and nitrite temporarily rising. Since you have such a high pH, you should just get and use Prime as your dechlor product all the time so you are better off safe than sorry. Go to my blog and see my article about "Find your tap water baseline" and start that process so we can know if it's your tap water that is the reason for your higher pH or if it's something in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results I went out and bought a master water testing kit with the little test tubes. My Ammonia was 1.0ppm Nitrate was 10.0ppm Nitrite was .25ppm PH was 8.2 Any suggestions on how to correct this would be appreciated. I obviously need to do a water change soon, but it might have to wait until the kids are in bed ;) Thanks for your help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47523	From: William M	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

I believe that you are right in saying that no freshwater catfish likes much (or any) salt in their water. There are strictly salt water catfish in the aquarium trade that do need a marine aquarium to be able to live. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Bill, I guess it would depend on which "silver tipped catfish" you're > referring to. The Carcharhinus albimarginatus (also called a Silver Tipped > Shark) is strictly a freshwater catfish, whereas the Hexanematichthys seemani > (too, called a Silver Tipped Shark -- and, Columbian Shark) is one of the very > few brackish water catfish I know of. It inhabits coastal areas on the > Pacific slope of Columbia. > > Maybe I should have said -- NO freshwater catfish likes very much salt -- > since I WAS talking about freshwater tankmates for this Dragon Goby, which is > an impossibility if both fish are to be maintained properly. Or should I > have worded it -- MOST catfish don't like very much salt? I guess it's a > matter of symantics, but thanks for pointing out at least one brackish water > catfish. I think you'd need to agree though, that MOST FRESHWATER catfish do > not like very much salt; am I correct? Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47524	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

Hi William. Which catfish are you referring to? I have an old catfish book which I cannot seem to locate right now that mentioned only two species of saltwater catfish. Have more been discovered? Not that I have a saltwater tank but it would be nice to know about these cats ;) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: William M <dreammaker2623@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:14 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question I believe that you are right in saying that no freshwater catfish likes much (or any) salt in their water. There are strictly salt water catfish in the aquarium trade that do need a marine aquarium to be able to live. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Bill, I guess it would depend on which "silver tipped catfish" you're > referring to. The Carcharhinus albimarginatus (also called a Silver Tipped > Shark) is strictly a freshwater catfish, whereas the Hexanematichthys seemani > (too, called a Silver Tipped Shark -- and, Columbian Shark) is one of the very > few brackish water catfish I know of. It inhabits coastal areas on the > Pacific slope of Columbia. > > Maybe I should have said -- NO freshwater catfish likes very much salt -- > since I WAS talking about freshwater tankmates for this Dragon Goby, which is > an impossibility if both fish are to be maintained properly. Or should I > have worded it -- MOST catfish don't like very much salt? I guess it's a > matter of symantics, but thanks for pointing out at least one brackish water > catfish. I think you'd need to agree though, that MOST FRESHWATER catfish do > not like very much salt; am I correct? Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47525	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results

Hey Lenny Nitrites were .25ppm, you read them backwards ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK... with such a high pH, you need to get a dechlor product like > Seachem's > Prime which will neutralize the ammonia. Ammonia become MUCH MORE toxic at > higher pH levels so even PWC's will not help you. > > You can add a pinch of salt per 10G of water to protect your fish from > brown > blood disease (nitrite poisoning) but it's still best to keep nitrites > below > the 1.0ppm range, even with the salt (regular table salt will do and you > just need a pinch per 10G, dilute it in a cup of water first) You can keep > nitrites below that level with PWC's as needed. > > As I suspected, trashing your filter cartridge at the same time that you > added more fish likely caused this issue... although, even adding more > fish > will cause a mini-cycle to happen with ammonia and nitrite temporarily > rising. > > Since you have such a high pH, you should just get and use Prime as your > dechlor product all the time so you are better off safe than sorry. > > Go to my blog and see my article about "Find your tap water baseline" and > start that process so we can know if it's your tap water that is the > reason > for your higher pH or if it's something in the tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > I went out and bought a master water testing kit with the little test > tubes. > > My Ammonia was 1.0ppm > Nitrate was 10.0ppm > Nitrite was .25ppm > PH was 8.2 > > Any suggestions on how to correct this would be appreciated. I obviously > need to do a water change soon, but it might have to wait until the > kids are > in bed ;) > > Thanks for your help > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47526	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Are they compatible?

Greetings from Pacifica, Lenny,Ray,Steve and group, I was offered 6 Firemouths and a 5 inch Dempsey.Are these fish compatible with my 2 Severums or should they go into a separate tank? Sevs are in a 50 gallon with a Rena Filstar3. If the best suggestion is putting them in a new tank, would switching filters speed up the cycling process? I could also add some of the gravel from one of my established tank too. Are convicts tough enough to house with the Sevs if I don't go with the Firemouths? Any potential conflicts here? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47527	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Are they compatible?

Severums should have a bigger tank (75 gallons or more is better) since they get so long and wide and take up so much space, turning around in a 55 gallon when they are full size is going to be pretty tricky, especially with 2 of them. I keep my single severum in with a bunch of community fish in a 125 gallon tank, he's over a year old now and has never once been aggressive towards other fish without the other fish trying to attack him first. So he only seems to defend himself. I'm not sure if they should be put with aggressive fish, I would keep them with other more docile cichlids myself (such as Rams, even though they can be territorial they seem to ignore my Severum most of the time). I no longer have Rams (they don't like my water or something), my Severum will eat the guppy and platy fry but other than that he has never eaten any of the full grown guppy's and platy's in his tank. Amber Steve Biondi wrote: > > Greetings from Pacifica, Lenny,Ray,Steve and group, > > I was offered 6 Firemouths and a 5 inch Dempsey.Are these fish compatible > with my 2 Severums or should they go into a separate tank? Sevs are in > a 50 > gallon with a Rena Filstar3. If the best suggestion is putting them in a > new tank, would switching filters speed up the cycling process? I could > also add some of the gravel from one of my established tank too. > > Are convicts tough enough to house with the Sevs if I don't go with the > Firemouths? Any potential conflicts here? > > Thanks, Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47528	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Are they compatible?

Hi Steve, Convicts are tough, probably more so than your severums. -Mike from the SVAS & PCCA. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Biondi <parkpac@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 24, 2010 2:38 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Are they compatible? Greetings from Pacifica, Lenny,Ray,Steve and group, I was offered 6 Firemouths and a 5 inch Dempsey.Are these fish compatible with my 2 Severums or should they go into a separate tank? Sevs are in a 50 gallon with a Rena Filstar3. If the best suggestion is putting them in a new tank, would switching filters speed up the cycling process? I could also add some of the gravel from one of my established tank too. Are convicts tough enough to house with the Sevs if I don't go with the Firemouths? Any potential conflicts here? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47529	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

I know when we go fishing in saltwater (Gulf of Mexico) to brackish to mostly saltwater bays directly connected to the Gulf, we catch LOTS of catfish if bottom fishing. We call them hardhead catfish. This Fishing & Hunting website also mentions a Gafftopsail Catfish but I've never caught one of them that I recall. http://www.identicards.com/allaboutsaltwaterfish/saltwater%20catfish.asp Of course, these are two that seem to be related to sport fishing. I'm not sure if there are others. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question Hi William. Which catfish are you referring to? I have an old catfish book which I cannot seem to locate right now that mentioned only two species of saltwater catfish. Have more been discovered? Not that I have a saltwater tank but it would be nice to know about these cats ;) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: William M <dreammaker2623@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:14 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question I believe that you are right in saying that no freshwater catfish likes much (or any) salt in their water. There are strictly salt water catfish in the aquarium trade that do need a marine aquarium to be able to live. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Bill, I guess it would depend on which "silver tipped catfish" you're > referring to. The Carcharhinus albimarginatus (also called a Silver Tipped > Shark) is strictly a freshwater catfish, whereas the Hexanematichthys seemani > (too, called a Silver Tipped Shark -- and, Columbian Shark) is one of the very > few brackish water catfish I know of. It inhabits coastal areas on the > Pacific slope of Columbia. > > Maybe I should have said -- NO freshwater catfish likes very much salt -- > since I WAS talking about freshwater tankmates for this Dragon Goby, which is > an impossibility if both fish are to be maintained properly. Or should I > have worded it -- MOST catfish don't like very much salt? I guess it's a > matter of symantics, but thanks for pointing out at least one brackish water > catfish. I think you'd need to agree though, that MOST FRESHWATER catfish do > not like very much salt; am I correct? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47530	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results

No I didn't. Re-read my reply. ;-) I talked about Ammonia in the first paragraph and then Nitrite in the second paragraph. It's probably something to do with coming out of six months of darkness up there in Alaska.... right \\Steve//? ;-) I should have elaborated more in the first paragraph about still doing PWC's to keep the ammonia at a low enough level that Prime can handle, but the Prime will handle the ammonia up to pretty high levels and the PWC's mentioned in the second paragraph, about Nitrites, will keep ammonia at more reasonable levels for the Prime. As long as she posts her numbers daily, we'll be able to give more instructions as needed, based on the numbers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results Hey Lenny Nitrites were .25ppm, you read them backwards ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > OK... with such a high pH, you need to get a dechlor product like > Seachem's Prime which will neutralize the ammonia. Ammonia become MUCH > MORE toxic at higher pH levels so even PWC's will not help you. > > You can add a pinch of salt per 10G of water to protect your fish from > brown blood disease (nitrite poisoning) but it's still best to keep > nitrites below the 1.0ppm range, even with the salt (regular table > salt will do and you just need a pinch per 10G, dilute it in a cup of > water first) You can keep nitrites below that level with PWC's as > needed. > > As I suspected, trashing your filter cartridge at the same time that > you added more fish likely caused this issue... although, even adding > more fish will cause a mini-cycle to happen with ammonia and nitrite > temporarily rising. > > Since you have such a high pH, you should just get and use Prime as > your dechlor product all the time so you are better off safe than sorry. > > Go to my blog and see my article about "Find your tap water baseline" > and start that process so we can know if it's your tap water that is > the reason for your higher pH or if it's something in the tank. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > I went out and bought a master water testing kit with the little test > tubes. > > My Ammonia was 1.0ppm > Nitrate was 10.0ppm > Nitrite was .25ppm > PH was 8.2 > > Any suggestions on how to correct this would be appreciated. I > obviously need to do a water change soon, but it might have to wait > until the kids are in bed ;) > > Thanks for your help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47531	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Are they compatible?

The two Severums are already enough of a bioload for a 55G... actually two are one or two too many since they grow to 12". A 12" fish should be in at least a 6' long tank to give it room to move around. If they are both small and you have plans for a much larger tank, then a 55G would be OK for temporary housing. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Heros_severus.html Firemouth cichlids - http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_meeki.html. Read the Social Behavior section as well as the rest of the profile. Mongabay says two paired fish could be kept in a 55G but during spawning, they can be chaotic to other fish. Jack Dempsy cichlid - http://fish.mongabay.com/cichlasoma.htm (Scroll halfway down) Read the SB (Social Behavior) section. Very territorial fish and they earned their "common name" for a reason. I think, if you try to shove all these fish in anything but a REALLY HUGE TANK, you will be asking for a disaster... and only one or two fish left over. It would be like a UFC cage match with all the contestants in the cage at the same time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Biondi Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Are they compatible? Greetings from Pacifica, Lenny,Ray,Steve and group, I was offered 6 Firemouths and a 5 inch Dempsey.Are these fish compatible with my 2 Severums or should they go into a separate tank? Sevs are in a 50 gallon with a Rena Filstar3. If the best suggestion is putting them in a new tank, would switching filters speed up the cycling process? I could also add some of the gravel from one of my established tank too. Are convicts tough enough to house with the Sevs if I don't go with the Firemouths? Any potential conflicts here? Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47532	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

Ray, As you may have guessed, I am well aware of the number of fish that could fit the description of electric fish. My main purpose was to throw out a few that are well known, and not burden the post with a lot of extraneous information that may be noteworthy for the very few of us who may have a slight interest in such things. For example, how many here would be interested to find out that the genus _Porotergus_ has been recently reviewed and a new species _P. duende_, the largest studied being approximately 5.5 inches TL? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes \\Steve//, Sticking only with freshwater aquarium fishes here, and disregarding larger freshwater fishes (and marine fishes), you can add Ropefish, Stingrays and Catfish to the groups you mentioned as having electroreceptors in their lateral lines -- even though they don't emit electrical currents as do the 3 groups in your post. I don't know specifically which Catfish are thus evolved to have these organs in their lateral lines, but I don't belierve it's just confined to the Electric Catfish. Perhaps most Catfishes have these sensors. While we know that Sharks and Stingrays (marine fishes) possess electroreceptors, from what I've learned, so doi freshwater Stringrays -- having evolved from these lines of their salt water relatives. Most other freshwater aquarium fishes just have mechanoreceptors, with still many of these also having chemoreceptors in their lateral lines -- as far as I know -- which serve in thermal, auditory and vestibular sensing. The first two senses are self-explanatory and the vestibular portion of their endowment allows permits them not only to balance (with the aid of their swim bladders), but allows them both spacial orientation in association with objects and other fish/(es) in their environment -- also allowing them to sense the speed, direction and mass of other fishes in their vicinity, either moving away from them or coming towards them (as would a predator) -- as well as the direction and speed of the water current.. While their chemoreceptors do not have the same function as do electroreceptors, I believe that as chemicals and their reactions in the water column being both physical and electrical in interacting with each other, that the neurons receiving these stimuli may be partially sensitive to electrical charges in their environment even if not to the magnitude as those fishes having electroreceptors are able to sense -- from what I've read and studied about these senses over the years. There is still a lot to learn about fishes' lateral lines and what info they gather from them, but even while I've gone into literature and observations on fishes having lateral line erosion, I've found that their lateral lines can detect differences in pH and their extremes -- not that these aquarium fishes can move out of undesireable areas though (they're stuck with whatever conditions we give them) -- but they will react to extremes not to their liking, negatively -- as stress. As decreased pH levels constitute higher levels of hydrogen ions in the water, this is electronics on a basic atomic scale (chemistry). Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47533	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: 75 Gallon Update

Hello group Thanks all for your help and feedback. I am finally able to keep LIVE fish in my aquarium. As some might recall I am using a wet/dry system. Any time I added fish they would all get sucked into overflow box. As suggested by some I used some window screen material and wrapped it around the overflow box. That has worked GREAT. I am also sure that having finally improved my water conditions also helped make the fishies stronger and reduced stress. I often see the guppies and Zebra's getting pulled in but are able to swim away. I am using the API master test kit, Seachem Purigen and Seachem Prime when doing water changes. My Baseline is pH @ 7.6 Ammo @ .25 Nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kH @ 7 gH @ 7 Current pH @ 7.6 with the standard test pH @ 7.4 using the high pH test Ammo @ 0 Nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kH @ 107.4 / 6 gH @ 179 / 10 Water temp 76 - 80 While the pH, Ammo, Nitri and Nitra have been the same for the past 3 months the kH has fluctuated between 6 and 7; and the gH between 8 and 10. Is this a problem or is this stable enough? Since the high range pH is giving me a lower number, should I just use the high pH test or stick with the standard one? Alex Semper Fi Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47534	From: William M	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: dragon fish question

I was looking through Dr. Axelrod's Atlas and found the Alius berneyi (Berney's catfish) and Arius leptaspis (Salmon catfish ) from Australia that are equally at home in fresh or salt water. This is in addition to the gaff top catfish that is a mouth brooder and the catfish that lives in the oceans in tropical areas. I do not remember the mane of that one but it usually stays in a small school and is striped. And then there is the Columbian cat shark that starts in fresh water and goes into brackish water. There are probably a few others that we do not know about. I think that the giant Well catfish from Asia goes out to sea and returns to spawn. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Hi William. > > Which catfish are you referring to? > I have an old catfish book which I cannot seem to locate right now that > mentioned only two species of saltwater catfish. Have more been > discovered? Not that I have a saltwater tank but it would be nice to > know about these cats ;) > > -Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: William M <dreammaker2623@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, Mar 24, 2010 1:14 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question > > > > > I believe that you are right in saying that no freshwater catfish likes > much (or any) salt in their water. There are strictly salt water > catfish in the aquarium trade that do need a marine aquarium to be able > to live. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > Bill, I guess it would depend on which "silver tipped catfish" you're > > referring to. The Carcharhinus albimarginatus (also called a Silver > Tipped > > Shark) is strictly a freshwater catfish, whereas the Hexanematichthys > seemani > > (too, called a Silver Tipped Shark -- and, Columbian Shark) is one of > the very > > few brackish water catfish I know of. It inhabits coastal areas on > the > > Pacific slope of Columbia. > > > > Maybe I should have said -- NO freshwater catfish likes very much > salt -- > > since I WAS talking about freshwater tankmates for this Dragon Goby, > which is > > an impossibility if both fish are to be maintained properly. Or > should I > > have worded it -- MOST catfish don't like very much salt? I guess > it's a > > matter of symantics, but thanks for pointing out at least one > brackish water > > catfish. I think you'd need to agree though, that MOST FRESHWATER > catfish do > > not like very much salt; am I correct? Ray</HTML> > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47535	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results

These are the results for my tap water PH 7.4 Ammonia .25 Nitrate .20 Nitrite 0 the next two I only have test strips for GH 150 KH 180 The test strip says there is no chlorine but the stuff smells like poolwater to me--I can't believe I drink it. I tested it again after adding the dechlorinator and got essentially the same results which makes me wonder if the dechlorinator does anything or if I didn't mix the water enough. Again your replies are helpful. I did a 25% or so water change today vaccuming the gravel as well. The water does look clearer. Everyone seems happy. I am exausted though. This tank stuff is almost as hard as having twins ;) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > No I didn't. Re-read my reply. ;-) I talked about Ammonia in the first > paragraph and then Nitrite in the second paragraph. It's probably something > to do with coming out of six months of darkness up there in Alaska.... right > \\Steve//? ;-) > > I should have elaborated more in the first paragraph about still doing PWC's > to keep the ammonia at a low enough level that Prime can handle, but the > Prime will handle the ammonia up to pretty high levels and the PWC's > mentioned in the second paragraph, about Nitrites, will keep ammonia at more > reasonable levels for the Prime. > > As long as she posts her numbers daily, we'll be able to give more > instructions as needed, based on the numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > Hey Lenny Nitrites were .25ppm, you read them backwards ;) > > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK... with such a high pH, you need to get a dechlor product like > > Seachem's Prime which will neutralize the ammonia. Ammonia become MUCH > > MORE toxic at higher pH levels so even PWC's will not help you. > > > > You can add a pinch of salt per 10G of water to protect your fish from > > brown blood disease (nitrite poisoning) but it's still best to keep > > nitrites below the 1.0ppm range, even with the salt (regular table > > salt will do and you just need a pinch per 10G, dilute it in a cup of > > water first) You can keep nitrites below that level with PWC's as > > needed. > > > > As I suspected, trashing your filter cartridge at the same time that > > you added more fish likely caused this issue... although, even adding > > more fish will cause a mini-cycle to happen with ammonia and nitrite > > temporarily rising. > > > > Since you have such a high pH, you should just get and use Prime as > > your dechlor product all the time so you are better off safe than sorry. > > > > Go to my blog and see my article about "Find your tap water baseline" > > and start that process so we can know if it's your tap water that is > > the reason for your higher pH or if it's something in the tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > > > I went out and bought a master water testing kit with the little test > > tubes. > > > > My Ammonia was 1.0ppm > > Nitrate was 10.0ppm > > Nitrite was .25ppm > > PH was 8.2 > > > > Any suggestions on how to correct this would be appreciated. I > > obviously need to do a water change soon, but it might have to wait > > until the kids are in bed ;) > > > > Thanks for your help >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47536	From: bluefish1955	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Dragon Fish - reply

Stef: I believe you have gotten some good advice here. I also am wondering about your water conditions. There is more to creating a brackish environment for your dragon fish than adding a couple of tablespoons of aquarium salt or even table salt. Get a hydrometer and practice adding salt until you reach a specific gravity of 1.018 to 1.023. To me the swing arm hydrometer is the easiest to read and they are fairly inexpensive at the LFS probably $5 to 7. If you are certain you have a dragon fish, aka violet goby or (Gobiodes Broussonnetii)they do need to transition from freshwater to brine. I've had one for about 18 months in my 50 gallon brackish tank that is around 12" long. He/she readily accepts "Nutrafin Max" sinking granules. Another question is, have you made a cave or a tunnel for your dragon to hang out in? Believe it or not I have hamster tubing with a flat rock leaning at an angle over one the end of the tubing to simulate both and since he comes out of the tube into the cave to beg at feeding time like the rest of my fish I assume he is comfortable. If you haven't already purchased it a great resource for brackish tanks is "Brackish-Water Fishes, An Aquarist's Guide to Identification, Care and Husbandry, it sells for about $39.00 again it should be available at your LFS. I highly recommend it. Hope this helps. Deb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From all you are telling us, you, like many of us when we started, are > getting some really BAD advice from your pet store. > > From your description, your "dragon fish" is likely an Arowana > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/arow-asi.htm OR > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Scleropages%20formosus.html. These fish > grow HUGE... around 3' long and should NOT be kept in a 10G tank at all. > For long term success, you would need a tank in the multi-hundred gallon > range that would take up at least a wall of your home to give the fish room > to swim around. If you keep him very long in the 10G tank, he will not live > a full and healthy life. > > You should bring him back to that store, get your money back and look for a > better store to buy fish from. If that is the only store and you have no > other choice, then see this article on my blog about properly stocking a 10G > tank for long term success. http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking OR > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h > tml > > You also mention, for the first time, "gold fish" and say they aren't going > to get very big but goldfish also get BIG... not as big as the Arowana but > still much too large for a 10G tank. I recommend a 55G as the smallest tank > for fancy goldfish and at least a 8' long tank or pond for common goldfish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mina > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question > > i got him at wal mart tag said dragon fish he is long an thin an grey. i > added salt to my tank. like the guy at my pet store told me too. said the 10 > gal tank was ok for all of my fish. being the one ones going to get big were > the plescomus an the dragon fish. my gold fish arnet going to get very big. > tony (guy at pet store) said that dragon fish would be ok if he was eating > the goldfish an betta food. an gave me brine shrip pelltes. said i could > feed him guppies but i have rotten luck keeping guppies an i can affrod to > buy them all the time. thanks for all your advice. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > I believe it was Ray that followed up after your last post about this > fish. > > Did you ever let us know what species it is? There are at least a > > couple of fish that people commonly call "dragon fish". Do you know > > the scientific name? Most likely it is a goby or an arowana but let > > us know. Here is a snip from Wikipedia's take on the "Dragonfish". > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfish > > > > The black dragonfish is part of the Malacosteid family Barbeled > > dragonfish, small bioluminescent deep-sea stomiiform fish of the > > family Stomiidae Arowana, large freshwater osteoglossiform fish of the > > family Osteoglossidae Lionfishes, showy, venomochodeus marine > > scorpaeniform fish of the genera Pterois and Dendrochirus, family > > Scorpaenidae Several species of Seamoths, small gasterosteiform fish > > of the family Pegasidae Violet Goby, a eel-like brackish-water fish, > > also known as Dragon Goby (END SNIP) > > > > Once you properly identifiy your fish, it will be easier to direct you > > to better care information for it. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Mina > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] dragon fish question > > > > hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 > > gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 > hours a > > week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. > any > > ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was > > wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he > > has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip > > pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at > > my local pet store says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the > > cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i have never had any luck > > breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. > > > > any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. > > > > thanks > > > > stef. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47537	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results

Okay so something is raising your pH somehow it seems. What decorations and type of gravel are you using in your tank? Out of curiosity what dechlorinator are you using right now? Amber twin_chicken_mama wrote: > > These are the results for my tap water > > PH 7.4 > Ammonia .25 > Nitrate .20 > Nitrite 0 > the next two I only have test strips for > GH 150 > KH 180 > > The test strip says there is no chlorine but the stuff smells like > poolwater to me--I can't believe I drink it. > > I tested it again after adding the dechlorinator and got essentially > the same results which makes me wonder if the dechlorinator does > anything or if I didn't mix the water enough. > > Again your replies are helpful. I did a 25% or so water change today > vaccuming the gravel as well. The water does look clearer. Everyone > seems happy. I am exausted though. This tank stuff is almost as hard > as having twins ;) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > No I didn't. Re-read my reply. ;-) I talked about Ammonia in the first > > paragraph and then Nitrite in the second paragraph. It's probably > something > > to do with coming out of six months of darkness up there in > Alaska.... right > > \\Steve//? ;-) > > > > I should have elaborated more in the first paragraph about still > doing PWC's > > to keep the ammonia at a low enough level that Prime can handle, but the > > Prime will handle the ammonia up to pretty high levels and the PWC's > > mentioned in the second paragraph, about Nitrites, will keep ammonia > at more > > reasonable levels for the Prime. > > > > As long as she posts her numbers daily, we'll be able to give more > > instructions as needed, based on the numbers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > > > Hey Lenny Nitrites were .25ppm, you read them backwards ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK... with such a high pH, you need to get a dechlor product like > > > Seachem's Prime which will neutralize the ammonia. Ammonia become > MUCH > > > MORE toxic at higher pH levels so even PWC's will not help you. > > > > > > You can add a pinch of salt per 10G of water to protect your fish > from > > > brown blood disease (nitrite poisoning) but it's still best to keep > > > nitrites below the 1.0ppm range, even with the salt (regular table > > > salt will do and you just need a pinch per 10G, dilute it in a cup of > > > water first) You can keep nitrites below that level with PWC's as > > > needed. > > > > > > As I suspected, trashing your filter cartridge at the same time that > > > you added more fish likely caused this issue... although, even adding > > > more fish will cause a mini-cycle to happen with ammonia and nitrite > > > temporarily rising. > > > > > > Since you have such a high pH, you should just get and use Prime as > > > your dechlor product all the time so you are better off safe than > sorry. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my article about "Find your tap water baseline" > > > and start that process so we can know if it's your tap water that is > > > the reason for your higher pH or if it's something in the tank. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > > > > > I went out and bought a master water testing kit with the little test > > > tubes. > > > > > > My Ammonia was 1.0ppm > > > Nitrate was 10.0ppm > > > Nitrite was .25ppm > > > PH was 8.2 > > > > > > Any suggestions on how to correct this would be appreciated. I > > > obviously need to do a water change soon, but it might have to wait > > > until the kids are in bed ;) > > > > > > Thanks for your help > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47538	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Albino Frog question?

Not so much for the Albino Clawed frogs (they are better swimmers) but the little dwarf frog may have a little difficulty.  Just use some plants (real or fake) and some driftwood aimed towards the surface and the frogs can use them as footholds.     Good Luck and...Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: __A_YAHOO_USER__ <joaniee2003@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 7:19:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Albino Frog question?   Did I help my frogs or did I do a disservice to them? I had two Albinos and one very small dwarf African frog in a short 5 gallon tank (just a starter tank until they got bigger). A friend offered me a 14 gallon 20 inch high octagon tank for free. So I switched them into that tank. I realized they need to go to the top to breathe and now I wonder if i made a mistake? Am I making them work too hard to breathe? Thanks for your help. Joanie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47539	From: Mina	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply

thank you all for the info. i got my dragon fish at wal mart. was told he would get to be 20 inches. an eats guppies an to add 1 table spoon aquarium salt per 5 gal. as for my goldfish i have had these before an they dont get any bigger than my hand. an the pleco i have had havent gotten any bigger than 12 inches. my dragon fish eats from the top of the water as well as the bottom. as for my pet store tony has been doing this for over 40 years. an he is a friend of my mom's i have never lost a fish due to his advice. an i cant take the fish back i have had him almost 3 months. an wal mart wont take him back. thanks for all the info. i really appreciate it. so dont take my post the wrong way. next time i am at wal mart i will see if they got the scientific name posted. an to answer the question about cave for my dragon fish i put in quiet a few big leafed fake plants for him to hide under. but he seems to like being out in the open alot too. an i just want to say you guys are all really cool. an i really appreciate all the help. but i just cant afford big tanks like you keep telling me to buy. its going to take me 3 months of saving just to buy a 60 dollar 20 gal. an that is if my car dont break down again. just so you all know i get paid 150 dollars every 2 weeks. my rent is 200 a month now add in all other house hold bills. so you see buying big tanks is a huge expence plus i have a small house my trailer is 12 by 60. so i kinda got to stay small. but like i said thanks for the help. sorry i have been such a source of frustration for you all. stef --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bluefish1955" <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > Stef: > > I believe you have gotten some good advice here. I also am wondering about your water conditions. There is more to creating a brackish environment for your dragon fish than adding a couple of tablespoons of aquarium salt or even table salt. > > Get a hydrometer and practice adding salt until you reach a specific gravity of 1.018 to 1.023. To me the swing arm hydrometer is the easiest to read and they are fairly inexpensive at the LFS probably $5 to 7. > > If you are certain you have a dragon fish, aka violet goby or (Gobiodes Broussonnetii)they do need to transition from freshwater to brine. I've had one for about 18 months in my 50 gallon brackish tank that is around 12" long. He/she readily accepts "Nutrafin Max" sinking granules. > > Another question is, have you made a cave or a tunnel for your dragon to hang out in? Believe it or not I have hamster tubing with a flat rock leaning at an angle over one the end of the tubing to simulate both and since he comes out of the tube into the cave to beg at feeding time like the rest of my fish I assume he is comfortable. > > If you haven't already purchased it a great resource for brackish tanks is "Brackish-Water Fishes, An Aquarist's Guide to Identification, Care and Husbandry, it sells for about $39.00 again it should be available at your LFS. I highly recommend it. > > Hope this helps. > > Deb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > From all you are telling us, you, like many of us when we started, are > > getting some really BAD advice from your pet store. > > > > From your description, your "dragon fish" is likely an Arowana > > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/arow-asi.htm OR > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Scleropages%20formosus.html. These fish > > grow HUGE... around 3' long and should NOT be kept in a 10G tank at all. > > For long term success, you would need a tank in the multi-hundred gallon > > range that would take up at least a wall of your home to give the fish room > > to swim around. If you keep him very long in the 10G tank, he will not live > > a full and healthy life. > > > > You should bring him back to that store, get your money back and look for a > > better store to buy fish from. If that is the only store and you have no > > other choice, then see this article on my blog about properly stocking a 10G > > tank for long term success. http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking OR > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h > > tml > > > > You also mention, for the first time, "gold fish" and say they aren't going > > to get very big but goldfish also get BIG... not as big as the Arowana but > > still much too large for a 10G tank. I recommend a 55G as the smallest tank > > for fancy goldfish and at least a 8' long tank or pond for common goldfish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Mina > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:11 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question > > > > i got him at wal mart tag said dragon fish he is long an thin an grey. i > > added salt to my tank. like the guy at my pet store told me too. said the 10 > > gal tank was ok for all of my fish. being the one ones going to get big were > > the plescomus an the dragon fish. my gold fish arnet going to get very big. > > tony (guy at pet store) said that dragon fish would be ok if he was eating > > the goldfish an betta food. an gave me brine shrip pelltes. said i could > > feed him guppies but i have rotten luck keeping guppies an i can affrod to > > buy them all the time. thanks for all your advice. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I believe it was Ray that followed up after your last post about this > > fish. > > > Did you ever let us know what species it is? There are at least a > > > couple of fish that people commonly call "dragon fish". Do you know > > > the scientific name? Most likely it is a goby or an arowana but let > > > us know. Here is a snip from Wikipedia's take on the "Dragonfish". > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfish > > > > > > The black dragonfish is part of the Malacosteid family Barbeled > > > dragonfish, small bioluminescent deep-sea stomiiform fish of the > > > family Stomiidae Arowana, large freshwater osteoglossiform fish of the > > > family Osteoglossidae Lionfishes, showy, venomochodeus marine > > > scorpaeniform fish of the genera Pterois and Dendrochirus, family > > > Scorpaenidae Several species of Seamoths, small gasterosteiform fish > > > of the family Pegasidae Violet Goby, a eel-like brackish-water fish, > > > also known as Dragon Goby (END SNIP) > > > > > > Once you properly identifiy your fish, it will be easier to direct you > > > to better care information for it. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Mina > > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] dragon fish question > > > > > > hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 > > > gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 > > hours a > > > week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. > > any > > > ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was > > > wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he > > > has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip > > > pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at > > > my local pet store says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the > > > cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i have never had any luck > > > breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. > > > > > > any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > stef. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47540	From: Mina	Date: 3/24/2010
Subject: found my fish

did a search after i posted here here is the link with photo an its my dragon fish. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Gobioides_broussoneti

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47541	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply

Deb, The specific gravity you mention is more a marine specific gravity than a brackish specific gravity. Brackish water is a transition between fresh and salt water environments. For a brackish tank, you are looking at a specific gravity of 1.003 to 1.013. Stef has fish in her tank that will not be compatible with this much salt in the water. She does face a decision, to remove the goby and bring it back to the store, or to re-home her other fish and slowly add salt to the water to bring up the specific gravity to where it should be for this fish. I'd use a marine salt to do this. One side benefit with brackish tanks is that you can let the specific gravity vary by adding salt or not adding salt at the water changes, and the fish will love you for it. My advice would be to remove the goby, and keep it in mind for a future venture with another, larger tank sometime in the future. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bluefish1955 Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dragon Fish - reply Stef: I believe you have gotten some good advice here. I also am wondering about your water conditions. There is more to creating a brackish environment for your dragon fish than adding a couple of tablespoons of aquarium salt or even table salt. Get a hydrometer and practice adding salt until you reach a specific gravity of 1.018 to 1.023. To me the swing arm hydrometer is the easiest to read and they are fairly inexpensive at the LFS probably $5 to 7. If you are certain you have a dragon fish, aka violet goby or (Gobiodes Broussonnetii)they do need to transition from freshwater to brine. I've had one for about 18 months in my 50 gallon brackish tank that is around 12" long. He/she readily accepts "Nutrafin Max" sinking granules. Another question is, have you made a cave or a tunnel for your dragon to hang out in? Believe it or not I have hamster tubing with a flat rock leaning at an angle over one the end of the tubing to simulate both and since he comes out of the tube into the cave to beg at feeding time like the rest of my fish I assume he is comfortable. If you haven't already purchased it a great resource for brackish tanks is "Brackish-Water Fishes, An Aquarist's Guide to Identification, Care and Husbandry, it sells for about $39.00 again it should be available at your LFS. I highly recommend it. Hope this helps. Deb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > From all you are telling us, you, like many of us when we started, are > getting some really BAD advice from your pet store. > > From your description, your "dragon fish" is likely an Arowana > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/arow-asi.htm OR > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Scleropages%20formosus.html. These fish > grow HUGE... around 3' long and should NOT be kept in a 10G tank at all. > For long term success, you would need a tank in the multi-hundred gallon > range that would take up at least a wall of your home to give the fish room > to swim around. If you keep him very long in the 10G tank, he will not live > a full and healthy life. > > You should bring him back to that store, get your money back and look for a > better store to buy fish from. If that is the only store and you have no > other choice, then see this article on my blog about properly stocking a 10G > tank for long term success. http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking OR > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h > tml > > You also mention, for the first time, "gold fish" and say they aren't going > to get very big but goldfish also get BIG... not as big as the Arowana but > still much too large for a 10G tank. I recommend a 55G as the smallest tank > for fancy goldfish and at least a 8' long tank or pond for common goldfish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mina > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:11 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question > > i got him at wal mart tag said dragon fish he is long an thin an grey. i > added salt to my tank. like the guy at my pet store told me too. said the 10 > gal tank was ok for all of my fish. being the one ones going to get big were > the plescomus an the dragon fish. my gold fish arnet going to get very big. > tony (guy at pet store) said that dragon fish would be ok if he was eating > the goldfish an betta food. an gave me brine shrip pelltes. said i could > feed him guppies but i have rotten luck keeping guppies an i can affrod to > buy them all the time. thanks for all your advice. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > I believe it was Ray that followed up after your last post about this > fish. > > Did you ever let us know what species it is? There are at least a > > couple of fish that people commonly call "dragon fish". Do you know > > the scientific name? Most likely it is a goby or an arowana but let > > us know. Here is a snip from Wikipedia's take on the "Dragonfish". > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfish > > > > The black dragonfish is part of the Malacosteid family Barbeled > > dragonfish, small bioluminescent deep-sea stomiiform fish of the > > family Stomiidae Arowana, large freshwater osteoglossiform fish of the > > family Osteoglossidae Lionfishes, showy, venomochodeus marine > > scorpaeniform fish of the genera Pterois and Dendrochirus, family > > Scorpaenidae Several species of Seamoths, small gasterosteiform fish > > of the family Pegasidae Violet Goby, a eel-like brackish-water fish, > > also known as Dragon Goby (END SNIP) > > > > Once you properly identifiy your fish, it will be easier to direct you > > to better care information for it. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Mina > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] dragon fish question > > > > hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found a 20 > > gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i only work 12 > hours a > > week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. > any > > ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. was > > wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon fish. he > > has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an brine shrip > > pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves it. the guy at > > my local pet store says i could feed him guppies but i dont have the > > cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i have never had any luck > > breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. > > > > any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. > > > > thanks > > > > stef. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47542	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results

OK... there's one probable typo in your test results. See 3rd paragraph. I'm presuming these tap water test results were your initial results, right out the tap. We also need you to re-test the same glass or jug of water at 24 hours and 48 hours as the pH will often change. Your tap water could have a higher CO2 level right out the pipe and as that CO2 outgases from the water, the pH could rise. pH can also go down over the 48 hour baseline testing so let us know. The 0.25 Ammonia is fairly normal presuming your tap water is treated with Chloramine (Chlorine-Ammonia compound) so a 0.25 to 0.5 ppm level would be normal. I think the typo is with the next two numbers. I'm presuming the nitrIte is 0.20 and the nitrAte is 0, especially since our test kits are not set up to test nitrAtes down into the tenths. The kits usually go in 5 full point to 10 point increments so the nitrAte tests would go from 5.0 to 10.0 to 20.0, etc. The test strips are OK for the GH and KH as it gives us a general range of your general hardness and carbonate hardness but when you run out of them, look for the API combo GH/KH test kit package to go with your Master Test Kit and you'll be good to go for a year. It is good to replace the kit yearly or as needed as the chemical reagent drops become inaccurate after being opened for a year. ALSO... remember to shake all your bottles well before each use. Some instructions mention shaking some of them but it's best to shake them all well... and the ones they say to shake for 30 seconds, shake for a minute. Just so you know, the ppm levels for your GH and KH would equate to around 8 dH (degrees of Hardness) for your GH and 10 dH for your KH. (1dH = apx. 18ppm) If your test strips have a test for chlorine, as you indicate, and it's not showing anything, before you added dechlor to your water, then that just shows you how inaccurate most test strips seem to be, based on my experience/experiments with a couple of brands many years ago. Of course, you could check with your water utility to see what they use for disinfecting your drinking water. There are other compounds besides chloramine that can be used but since you say it smells like it's chlorinated, it likely is... and the ammonia likely means it's actually chloramine, not chlorine. As far as this stuff being exhausting, yes, cycling with fish, which we do not recommend, is a LOT more work than doing a fishless cycle first and then adding the fish. It's also MUCH safer and healthier for the fish. Just DO NOT add any more fish while you are working through the cycling with fish period, which can take up to 8 weeks or longer... if one makes a mistake like trashing the filter cartridge since filter media is where the overwhelming majority of nitrifying bacteria will live. The Bio-Wheel probably saved you from even worse conditions as the Bio-Wheel also had a lot of nitrifying bacteria on it so it's not like you trashed all of your N-bacteria. The good news is that it's like learning to ride a bike. Once you learn all the basics, you look back and wonder what was so difficult. I'm not sure it's as rough as having twins... although I can't speak from experience. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water and testing results These are the results for my tap water PH 7.4 Ammonia .25 Nitrate .20 Nitrite 0 the next two I only have test strips for GH 150 KH 180 The test strip says there is no chlorine but the stuff smells like poolwater to me--I can't believe I drink it. I tested it again after adding the dechlorinator and got essentially the same results which makes me wonder if the dechlorinator does anything or if I didn't mix the water enough. Again your replies are helpful. I did a 25% or so water change today vaccuming the gravel as well. The water does look clearer. Everyone seems happy. I am exausted though. This tank stuff is almost as hard as having twins ;) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > No I didn't. Re-read my reply. ;-) I talked about Ammonia in the > first paragraph and then Nitrite in the second paragraph. It's > probably something to do with coming out of six months of darkness up > there in Alaska.... right \\Steve//? ;-) > > I should have elaborated more in the first paragraph about still doing > PWC's to keep the ammonia at a low enough level that Prime can handle, > but the Prime will handle the ammonia up to pretty high levels and the > PWC's mentioned in the second paragraph, about Nitrites, will keep > ammonia at more reasonable levels for the Prime. > > As long as she posts her numbers daily, we'll be able to give more > instructions as needed, based on the numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > Hey Lenny Nitrites were .25ppm, you read them backwards ;) > > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > OK... with such a high pH, you need to get a dechlor product like > > Seachem's Prime which will neutralize the ammonia. Ammonia become > > MUCH MORE toxic at higher pH levels so even PWC's will not help you. > > > > You can add a pinch of salt per 10G of water to protect your fish > > from brown blood disease (nitrite poisoning) but it's still best to > > keep nitrites below the 1.0ppm range, even with the salt (regular > > table salt will do and you just need a pinch per 10G, dilute it in a > > cup of water first) You can keep nitrites below that level with > > PWC's as needed. > > > > As I suspected, trashing your filter cartridge at the same time that > > you added more fish likely caused this issue... although, even > > adding more fish will cause a mini-cycle to happen with ammonia and > > nitrite temporarily rising. > > > > Since you have such a high pH, you should just get and use Prime as > > your dechlor product all the time so you are better off safe than sorry. > > > > Go to my blog and see my article about "Find your tap water baseline" > > and start that process so we can know if it's your tap water that is > > the reason for your higher pH or if it's something in the tank. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > twin_chicken_mama > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:01 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > > > I went out and bought a master water testing kit with the little > > test tubes. > > > > My Ammonia was 1.0ppm > > Nitrate was 10.0ppm > > Nitrite was .25ppm > > PH was 8.2 > > > > Any suggestions on how to correct this would be appreciated. I > > obviously need to do a water change soon, but it might have to wait > > until the kids are in bed ;) > > > > Thanks for your help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47543	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: 75 Gallon Update

Overall, things seem to be looking good. It's normal for the KH and GH to go down, as the ecology of the tank utilizes the minerals that make up the GH and the carbonates that make up the KH, unless there is something in the tank that would be constantly raising them. pH will also go down as a normal part of the tank's ecology. This is why we do frequent and regular PWC's... not only to remove some of the polluted water and to dilute the rest of it but also to replenish the lowering GH and KH levels. The higher the bioload or worse the maintenance, the faster the KH, GH and pH will drop in between PWC's. As far as your pH test, it seems you can use the high test kit but if it registers on the bottom of the scale all the time, it's a good idea to double check things from time to time with the low test kit to make sure it's not crashing. As all of your fish reach full size and you *learn* your tank and it's requirements, you'll eventually not have to test so much and *know* what is needed to keep things stabile. Most normally stocked tanks do well with weekly maintenance, i.e.- gravel vacuuming, filter maintenance and a 25% PWC... but a lightly stocked tank can go longer... overstocked tanks will need more frequent maintenance. Remember that as fish grow, the tank's maintenance needs will also grow. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:52 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] 75 Gallon Update Hello group Thanks all for your help and feedback. I am finally able to keep LIVE fish in my aquarium. As some might recall I am using a wet/dry system. Any time I added fish they would all get sucked into overflow box. As suggested by some I used some window screen material and wrapped it around the overflow box. That has worked GREAT. I am also sure that having finally improved my water conditions also helped make the fishies stronger and reduced stress. I often see the guppies and Zebra's getting pulled in but are able to swim away. I am using the API master test kit, Seachem Purigen and Seachem Prime when doing water changes. My Baseline is pH @ 7.6 Ammo @ .25 Nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kH @ 7 gH @ 7 Current pH @ 7.6 with the standard test pH @ 7.4 using the high pH test Ammo @ 0 Nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kH @ 107.4 / 6 gH @ 179 / 10 Water temp 76 - 80 While the pH, Ammo, Nitri and Nitra have been the same for the past 3 months the kH has fluctuated between 6 and 7; and the gH between 8 and 10. Is this a problem or is this stable enough? Since the high range pH is giving me a lower number, should I just use the high pH test or stick with the standard one? Alex Semper Fi Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47544	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Are they compatible?

Steve, While average sized adult Severum may not always attain a length of their maximum 12", know that they can -- and even occasionally 13" -- even while they don't grow quite as fast as some other Cichlids. For this size reason alone, these fish should have the 50 gallon all to themselves. Please know too, that adult male Jack Dempsey's will almost consistently grow to at least 11". Firemouths will average near 6", but can occasionally get to 7". While they are mostly bluff (comparatively speaking), I'm sure you can see how all these fish would be far too crowded in one 50 gallon tank. Convict Cichlids are more than tough enough to be housed with Severum, they are downright aggressive when spawning -- and they're spawning most of the time. They too, will get to about the same size as the Firemouth Cichlids (females remaining a little smaller, just as with the Firemouth). Severum are not overly aggressive, although they can surely hold their own. Otherwise, they're one of the more mellower Cichlids which cause no trouble even when housed with Angelfish. You're going to need another tank, and a bigger one at that. As for a new tank and filters, using some of the filter media from the 50 gallon tank's Rena filter in the new tank's filter will surely speed up the cycling of this new tank, as would also adding (combined) a good quantity of top layer gravel from the 50 gallon. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47545	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply

Stef, First of all, I'd like to make it perfectly clear that you have not been a source of frustration. This is why we're here, to give advice -- and we enjoy doing it if we know it will help other hobbyists. We might appreciate your following our advice, for your own benefit, but you may choose whatever you wish -- that's your choice. Now, getting to the matters of your most recent post: All single-tailed (Common and "Comet") Goldfish have the genetic possibility of attaining a length of at least 12", perhaps slightly more -- when given adequate room. A Fancy Goldfish should get to at least 8", much bigger than your hand. For a Goldfish not to get to this size would mean that it has been stunted. While you may have maintained such Goldfish BEFORE as you're describing (as not getting bigger than your hand), for good lengths of time apparently live and well, they most probably had suffered unseen (by you) stress related issues to their health as a result of their being stunted -- OR you should have STILL HAD these fish right now, as Goldfish should easily get to 20 years old or more if kept in adequate conditions (including size of tank). While there are a good number of different Pleco species, most of the smaller ones (Ancistrus -- "Bushy-Nose", etc.) don't grow much more than about 6" long -- and the remainder, larger species get much bigger than 12". I don't really know of any that just get to the size of your 12" one. although I may have overlooked a few. The common Pleco normally found in many tropical fish stores, EASILY gets to a minimum of 18" or so -- or larger. If your catfish is a Common Pleco, please know that it must be stunted, and severely so for it to be only 12". The 10 gallon tank that you previously mentioned is WWAAAAYYY too small to maintain your 3 fish in properly, even though I can understand your financial dilemma at this time. To upgrade to at least a 20 gallon tank should not take $60, unless you need to buy a stand for it. Otherwise, you can use all your equipment from your 10 gallon tank on this 20 gallon, and do without a hood (at least until you can swing one) if you don't have live plants. Have you thought about checking out Craigslist for used equipment? Many members have gotten some great deals on much larger aquariums going that route. Getting back to your Dragon Fish (Dragon Goby ?), there's really no need now for you to try to find the scientific name of your fish, since Lenny has posted pics of what we believe this fish to be. If you would just go up to the links Lenny has provided, to possibly verify that this is what you have (if it is this fish), then we'll all know the I.D. of you're fish -- including you. Please check out Lenny's links for an I.D. Good to know that your Dragon Fish was eating off the bottom as well as off the surface -- even though it's not eating now. I'm glad to see that your pet shop owner, Tony, has been in the fish selling business for 40 years. Please know that I'm not here to bash or discredit Tony, but have you wondered why your Dragon Fish is not eating, even though you've received advice on this fish from him? For starters, as we surmise -- if this is actually a Dragon Goby -- their salt needs are MUCH MUCH higher than the 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons that you're using. To increase that salinity to near the minimum amount of salt needed for this fish, it takes 1 cup of preferably MARINE SALT MIX per 5 gallons to increase the specific gravity by 0.005 -- over the freshwater specific gravity of 1.000. Depending on the age of this fish, it will be most comfortable at a brackish salinity of approximately 1.010 -- or -- 2 cups of marine salt mix per 5 gallons of water. This would kill any freshwater fish, let alone a Pleco which doesn't tolerate very much salt. By this, I hope you might see that the advice you've been given -- both of the needed size of your tank and now the amount of salt needed to maintain this fish in a healthy manner are erroneous. While you and/or your mother may not have ever lost a fish due to Tony's advice, they have been severely stunted over the years -- shortening their lifespan -- and now facing health issues as a result. This bad advice alone (of 1 TBSP salt per 5 gallons) that has now caused your Dragon Fish to decline to the point of not eating should be cause enough to be able to bring him back. We have nothing to gain by bad-mouthing any shop owner, and it's not our intention to do so, but we would only wish to enlighten you on what you may have missed when completely relying on him. If you did not intend to take our advice (since it seems as though you're "defending" him), I fail to see what you bothered posting here for and asking for advice if you don't intend on at least accepting (or considering) it -- but this is not meant in any adverse way, it's just an observation leaving me with this mysterious question in mind -- or maybe (hopefully) you may be able to understand that we only mean to give you the best knowledge we can for your benefit and your fishes' -- and we wouldn't attempt to do so unless we knew what was in your fishes' best interest Please feel free to post here anytime about any fish problem, and we'd be more than glad to try to help. Ray. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply

Stef, We understand finances and that many folks can't afford BIG tanks. Heck, I can't buy as big of a tank as I'd like (mainly due to space)... but you need to know that you should only keep fish that can comfortably live long-term in whatever sized tank you have. 10G tanks are probably one of the most common and one of the hardest to properly stock for folks that do not realize how big certain fish get. It's one of the reasons Hailey and I worked on this article on my blog that lists dozens, possibly hundreds of different fish that can successfully be kept long-term in a 10G tank. Here's the link to the article/list. http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking OR main link http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml It's not fair to fish that should be in a BIG tank to be kept in undersized tanks as it will cause them to be stunted (only grow a fraction of their potential size) and stunting comes with health issues and a much shorter life span. For example, long-bodied goldfish should grow to well over 12" and up to 24" and live to well over 20 years, with the record being 43 years and fancy round-bodied goldfish should grow to 6" to 8" long and live to well over 10 years. Most never make it that long due to human error which causes the stunting and resultant health and lifespan issues. It's so much easier on the fish and the fish keeper to have the right sized fish in the right sized tank from the start so the fish keeper doesn't have to spend an excessive amount of time on tank maintenance or to constantly be dealing with health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mina Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dragon Fish - reply thank you all for the info. i got my dragon fish at wal mart. was told he would get to be 20 inches. an eats guppies an to add 1 table spoon aquarium salt per 5 gal. as for my goldfish i have had these before an they dont get any bigger than my hand. an the pleco i have had havent gotten any bigger than 12 inches. my dragon fish eats from the top of the water as well as the bottom. as for my pet store tony has been doing this for over 40 years. an he is a friend of my mom's i have never lost a fish due to his advice. an i cant take the fish back i have had him almost 3 months. an wal mart wont take him back. thanks for all the info. i really appreciate it. so dont take my post the wrong way. next time i am at wal mart i will see if they got the scientific name posted. an to answer the question about cave for my dragon fish i put in quiet a few big leafed fake plants for him to hide under. but he seems to like being out in the open alot too. an i just want to say you guys are all really cool. an i really appreciate all the help. but i just cant afford big tanks like you keep telling me to buy. its going to take me 3 months of saving just to buy a 60 dollar 20 gal. an that is if my car dont break down again. just so you all know i get paid 150 dollars every 2 weeks. my rent is 200 a month now add in all other house hold bills. so you see buying big tanks is a huge expence plus i have a small house my trailer is 12 by 60. so i kinda got to stay small. but like i said thanks for the help. sorry i have been such a source of frustration for you all. stef --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bluefish1955" <dmelton2@...> wrote: > > Stef: > > I believe you have gotten some good advice here. I also am wondering about your water conditions. There is more to creating a brackish environment for your dragon fish than adding a couple of tablespoons of aquarium salt or even table salt. > > Get a hydrometer and practice adding salt until you reach a specific gravity of 1.018 to 1.023. To me the swing arm hydrometer is the easiest to read and they are fairly inexpensive at the LFS probably $5 to 7. > > If you are certain you have a dragon fish, aka violet goby or (Gobiodes Broussonnetii)they do need to transition from freshwater to brine. I've had one for about 18 months in my 50 gallon brackish tank that is around 12" long. He/she readily accepts "Nutrafin Max" sinking granules. > > Another question is, have you made a cave or a tunnel for your dragon to hang out in? Believe it or not I have hamster tubing with a flat rock leaning at an angle over one the end of the tubing to simulate both and since he comes out of the tube into the cave to beg at feeding time like the rest of my fish I assume he is comfortable. > > If you haven't already purchased it a great resource for brackish tanks is "Brackish-Water Fishes, An Aquarist's Guide to Identification, Care and Husbandry, it sells for about $39.00 again it should be available at your LFS. I highly recommend it. > > Hope this helps. > > Deb > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> wrote: > > > > From all you are telling us, you, like many of us when we started, > > are getting some really BAD advice from your pet store. > > > > From your description, your "dragon fish" is likely an Arowana > > http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/arow-asi.htm OR > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Scleropages%20formosus.html. These > > fish grow HUGE... around 3' long and should NOT be kept in a 10G tank at all. > > For long term success, you would need a tank in the multi-hundred > > gallon range that would take up at least a wall of your home to give > > the fish room to swim around. If you keep him very long in the 10G > > tank, he will not live a full and healthy life. > > > > You should bring him back to that store, get your money back and > > look for a better store to buy fish from. If that is the only store > > and you have no other choice, then see this article on my blog about > > properly stocking a 10G tank for long term success. > > http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking OR > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stockin > > g-list.h > > tml > > > > You also mention, for the first time, "gold fish" and say they > > aren't going to get very big but goldfish also get BIG... not as big > > as the Arowana but still much too large for a 10G tank. I recommend > > a 55G as the smallest tank for fancy goldfish and at least a 8' long tank or pond for common goldfish. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mina > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:11 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: dragon fish question > > > > i got him at wal mart tag said dragon fish he is long an thin an > > grey. i added salt to my tank. like the guy at my pet store told me > > too. said the 10 gal tank was ok for all of my fish. being the one > > ones going to get big were the plescomus an the dragon fish. my gold fish arnet going to get very big. > > tony (guy at pet store) said that dragon fish would be ok if he was > > eating the goldfish an betta food. an gave me brine shrip pelltes. > > said i could feed him guppies but i have rotten luck keeping guppies an i can affrod to > > buy them all the time. thanks for all your advice. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > > <GoldLenny@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I believe it was Ray that followed up after your last post about > > > this > > fish. > > > Did you ever let us know what species it is? There are at least a > > > couple of fish that people commonly call "dragon fish". Do you > > > know the scientific name? Most likely it is a goby or an arowana > > > but let us know. Here is a snip from Wikipedia's take on the "Dragonfish". > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfish > > > > > > The black dragonfish is part of the Malacosteid family Barbeled > > > dragonfish, small bioluminescent deep-sea stomiiform fish of the > > > family Stomiidae Arowana, large freshwater osteoglossiform fish of > > > the family Osteoglossidae Lionfishes, showy, venomochodeus marine > > > scorpaeniform fish of the genera Pterois and Dendrochirus, family > > > Scorpaenidae Several species of Seamoths, small gasterosteiform > > > fish of the family Pegasidae Violet Goby, a eel-like > > > brackish-water fish, also known as Dragon Goby (END SNIP) > > > > > > Once you properly identifiy your fish, it will be easier to direct > > > you to better care information for it. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Mina > > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] dragon fish question > > > > > > hi all. before you all say bigger tank i am working on it i found > > > a 20 gal i can afford in a couple of weeks. just so you all know i > > > only work 12 > > hours a > > > week an make 7 an hour. an i own my own home so i got lots of bills. > > any > > > ways when i joined i saw some posts about makeing your own food. > > > was wondering if there was some mix i could make for my dragon > > > fish. he has lost intrest in the goldfish flake betta pettles an > > > brine shrip pelltes an blood worn mix i feed. every one else loves > > > it. the guy at my local pet store says i could feed him guppies > > > but i dont have the cash flow to buy guppies all the time. an i > > > have never had any luck breeding them.tried both common feeders an fancy ones. > > > > > > any suggestions will be gladly tried if i can afford it. > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > stef.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47547	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply

Make sure not to change the salt levels too much at once as well, not sure if it matters as much to a brackish fish, but I would still raise them slowly over a week or more time period just to make sure it's not shocked and dies. Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Stef, First of all, I'd like to make it perfectly clear that you have not > been a source of frustration. This is why we're here, to give advice > -- and > we enjoy doing it if we know it will help other hobbyists. We might > appreciate your following our advice, for your own benefit, but you > may choose > whatever you wish -- that's your choice. Now, getting to the matters > of your > most recent post: > > All single-tailed (Common and "Comet") Goldfish have the genetic > possibility of attaining a length of at least 12", perhaps slightly > more -- when given > adequate room. A Fancy Goldfish should get to at least 8", much bigger > than your hand. For a Goldfish not to get to this size would mean that > it has > been stunted. While you may have maintained such Goldfish BEFORE as > you're > describing (as not getting bigger than your hand), for good lengths of > time > apparently live and well, they most probably had suffered unseen (by you) > stress related issues to their health as a result of their being > stunted -- OR > you should have STILL HAD these fish right now, as Goldfish should easily > get to 20 years old or more if kept in adequate conditions (including > size of > tank). > > While there are a good number of different Pleco species, most of the > smaller ones (Ancistrus -- "Bushy-Nose", etc.) don't grow much more > than about 6" > long -- and the remainder, larger species get much bigger than 12". I > don't really know of any that just get to the size of your 12" one. > although I > may have overlooked a few. The common Pleco normally found in many > tropical > fish stores, EASILY gets to a minimum of 18" or so -- or larger. If your > catfish is a Common Pleco, please know that it must be stunted, and > severely > so for it to be only 12". The 10 gallon tank that you previously > mentioned > is WWAAAAYYY too small to maintain your 3 fish in properly, even > though I can > understand your financial dilemma at this time. To upgrade to at least a > 20 gallon tank should not take $60, unless you need to buy a stand for > it. > Otherwise, you can use all your equipment from your 10 gallon tank on > this 20 > gallon, and do without a hood (at least until you can swing one) if you > don't have live plants. Have you thought about checking out Craigslist > for > used equipment? Many members have gotten some great deals on much larger > aquariums going that route. > > Getting back to your Dragon Fish (Dragon Goby ?), there's really no need > now for you to try to find the scientific name of your fish, since > Lenny has > posted pics of what we believe this fish to be. If you would just go > up to > the links Lenny has provided, to possibly verify that this is what you > have > (if it is this fish), then we'll all know the I.D. of you're fish -- > including you. Please check out Lenny's links for an I.D. > > Good to know that your Dragon Fish was eating off the bottom as well > as off > the surface -- even though it's not eating now. I'm glad to see that your > pet shop owner, Tony, has been in the fish selling business for 40 years. > Please know that I'm not here to bash or discredit Tony, but have you > wondered why your Dragon Fish is not eating, even though you've > received advice on > this fish from him? For starters, as we surmise -- if this is actually a > Dragon Goby -- their salt needs are MUCH MUCH higher than the 1 > Tablespoon > per 5 gallons that you're using. To increase that salinity to near the > minimum amount of salt needed for this fish, it takes 1 cup of > preferably MARINE > SALT MIX per 5 gallons to increase the specific gravity by 0.005 -- > over the > freshwater specific gravity of 1.000. Depending on the age of this > fish, it > will be most comfortable at a brackish salinity of approximately 1.010 -- > or -- 2 cups of marine salt mix per 5 gallons of water. This would > kill any > freshwater fish, let alone a Pleco which doesn't tolerate very much salt. > By this, I hope you might see that the advice you've been given -- > both of > the needed size of your tank and now the amount of salt needed to > maintain > this fish in a healthy manner are erroneous. While you and/or your > mother may > not have ever lost a fish due to Tony's advice, they have been severely > stunted over the years -- shortening their lifespan -- and now facing > health > issues as a result. This bad advice alone (of 1 TBSP salt per 5 > gallons) that > has now caused your Dragon Fish to decline to the point of not eating > should > be cause enough to be able to bring him back. > > We have nothing to gain by bad-mouthing any shop owner, and it's not our > intention to do so, but we would only wish to enlighten you on what > you may > have missed when completely relying on him. If you did not intend to > take our > advice (since it seems as though you're "defending" him), I fail to see > what you bothered posting here for and asking for advice if you don't > intend on > at least accepting (or considering) it -- but this is not meant in any > adverse way, it's just an observation leaving me with this mysterious > question > in mind -- or maybe (hopefully) you may be able to understand that we > only > mean to give you the best knowledge we can for your benefit and your > fishes' > -- and we wouldn't attempt to do so unless we knew what was in your > fishes' > best interest Please feel free to post here anytime about any fish > problem, > and we'd be more than glad to try to help. Ray. > </HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47548	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results

You are right. The Nitrate is 20ppm and the Nitrite is 0. I'm sure of that because the Nitrite was a really pretty color :) And I've been making sure to do the test in alphabetical order, Nitrate before Nitrite. The water still looks cloudy to me. I am using API tap water conditioner and API stress zyme. I think that PetCo does sell the Seaman's brand that you were talking about. Unfortunately, I do not have any small fish stores around me and I don't know anyone with an aquarium. I bought all of my decorations and gravel at either Petco or Petsmart except for two small terra cotta pots that I bought for my frogs to hide in, but that was recommended on a DAF site. What, if anything, should I do next? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK... there's one probable typo in your test results. See 3rd paragraph. > I'm presuming these tap water test results were your initial results, right > out the tap. We also need you to re-test the same glass or jug of water at > 24 hours and 48 hours as the pH will often change. Your tap water could > have a higher CO2 level right out the pipe and as that CO2 outgases from the > water, the pH could rise. pH can also go down over the 48 hour baseline > testing so let us know. > > The 0.25 Ammonia is fairly normal presuming your tap water is treated with > Chloramine (Chlorine-Ammonia compound) so a 0.25 to 0.5 ppm level would be > normal. > > I think the typo is with the next two numbers. I'm presuming the nitrIte is > 0.20 and the nitrAte is 0, especially since our test kits are not set up to > test nitrAtes down into the tenths. The kits usually go in 5 full point to > 10 point increments so the nitrAte tests would go from 5.0 to 10.0 to 20.0, > etc. > > The test strips are OK for the GH and KH as it gives us a general range of > your general hardness and carbonate hardness but when you run out of them, > look for the API combo GH/KH test kit package to go with your Master Test > Kit and you'll be good to go for a year. It is good to replace the kit > yearly or as needed as the chemical reagent drops become inaccurate after > being opened for a year. ALSO... remember to shake all your bottles well > before each use. Some instructions mention shaking some of them but it's > best to shake them all well... and the ones they say to shake for 30 > seconds, shake for a minute. Just so you know, the ppm levels for your GH > and KH would equate to around 8 dH (degrees of Hardness) for your GH and 10 > dH for your KH. (1dH = apx. 18ppm) > > If your test strips have a test for chlorine, as you indicate, and it's not > showing anything, before you added dechlor to your water, then that just > shows you how inaccurate most test strips seem to be, based on my > experience/experiments with a couple of brands many years ago. Of course, > you could check with your water utility to see what they use for > disinfecting your drinking water. There are other compounds besides > chloramine that can be used but since you say it smells like it's > chlorinated, it likely is... and the ammonia likely means it's actually > chloramine, not chlorine. > > As far as this stuff being exhausting, yes, cycling with fish, which we do > not recommend, is a LOT more work than doing a fishless cycle first and then > adding the fish. It's also MUCH safer and healthier for the fish. Just DO > NOT add any more fish while you are working through the cycling with fish > period, which can take up to 8 weeks or longer... if one makes a mistake > like trashing the filter cartridge since filter media is where the > overwhelming majority of nitrifying bacteria will live. The Bio-Wheel > probably saved you from even worse conditions as the Bio-Wheel also had a > lot of nitrifying bacteria on it so it's not like you trashed all of your > N-bacteria. > > The good news is that it's like learning to ride a bike. Once you learn all > the basics, you look back and wonder what was so difficult. I'm not sure > it's as rough as having twins... although I can't speak from experience. > :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water and testing results > > These are the results for my tap water > > PH 7.4 > Ammonia .25 > Nitrate .20 > Nitrite 0 > the next two I only have test strips for GH 150 KH 180 > > The test strip says there is no chlorine but the stuff smells like poolwater > to me--I can't believe I drink it. > > I tested it again after adding the dechlorinator and got essentially the > same results which makes me wonder if the dechlorinator does anything or if > I didn't mix the water enough. > > Again your replies are helpful. I did a 25% or so water change today > vaccuming the gravel as well. The water does look clearer. Everyone seems > happy. I am exausted though. This tank stuff is almost as hard as having > twins ;) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > No I didn't. Re-read my reply. ;-) I talked about Ammonia in the > > first paragraph and then Nitrite in the second paragraph. It's > > probably something to do with coming out of six months of darkness up > > there in Alaska.... right \\Steve//? ;-) > > > > I should have elaborated more in the first paragraph about still doing > > PWC's to keep the ammonia at a low enough level that Prime can handle, > > but the Prime will handle the ammonia up to pretty high levels and the > > PWC's mentioned in the second paragraph, about Nitrites, will keep > > ammonia at more reasonable levels for the Prime. > > > > As long as she posts her numbers daily, we'll be able to give more > > instructions as needed, based on the numbers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > > > Hey Lenny Nitrites were .25ppm, you read them backwards ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK... with such a high pH, you need to get a dechlor product like > > > Seachem's Prime which will neutralize the ammonia. Ammonia become > > > MUCH MORE toxic at higher pH levels so even PWC's will not help you. > > > > > > You can add a pinch of salt per 10G of water to protect your fish > > > from brown blood disease (nitrite poisoning) but it's still best to > > > keep nitrites below the 1.0ppm range, even with the salt (regular > > > table salt will do and you just need a pinch per 10G, dilute it in a > > > cup of water first) You can keep nitrites below that level with > > > PWC's as needed. > > > > > > As I suspected, trashing your filter cartridge at the same time that > > > you added more fish likely caused this issue... although, even > > > adding more fish will cause a mini-cycle to happen with ammonia and > > > nitrite temporarily rising. > > > > > > Since you have such a high pH, you should just get and use Prime as > > > your dechlor product all the time so you are better off safe than sorry. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my article about "Find your tap water baseline" > > > and start that process so we can know if it's your tap water that is > > > the reason for your higher pH or if it's something in the tank. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > twin_chicken_mama > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > > > > > I went out and bought a master water testing kit with the little > > > test tubes. > > > > > > My Ammonia was 1.0ppm > > > Nitrate was 10.0ppm > > > Nitrite was .25ppm > > > PH was 8.2 > > > > > > Any suggestions on how to correct this would be appreciated. I > > > obviously need to do a water change soon, but it might have to wait > > > until the kids are in bed ;) > > > > > > Thanks for your help >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47549	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Cloudy water and testing results

I understand wanting to use alphabetical order but it's more important that you learn "The Nitrogen Cycle" and to help you learn that, it's best to do the testing in cycling order which is Ammonia>Nitrite>Nitrate, since that is the order that the compounds happen in our tanks. The fish put out ammonia via urine and gill function, then some naturally occurring bacteria convert the ammonia into nitrite, then some other naturally occurring bacteria convert the nitrite into nitrate. Then we do PWC's to keep the nitrates below 40ppm and preferably below 20ppm. Read more about "The Nitrogen Cycle" on my "A to Z" page. It's one of the top things listed on the page. http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping The two free online tutorials also cover it. There's no need to use the stress-zyme... in fact it's better that you not use it. The API Tap Water Conditioner is a GREAT product that I use myself but in your case, with your high pH in your tank, you need a product like SeaChem's Prime which will neutralize the ammonia. I don't want to overwhelm you with information right now but in simple terms, ammonia as LOT MORE toxic at high pH levels. Even 0.25ppm of ammonia is toxic at pH levels over 8.0 where you could have 4.0ppm (16 times more) of ammonia at a pH level of 6.0 and it wouldn't cause ammonia toxicity issues to the fish. We still need the rest of your tap water baseline test results (24 hr and 48 hr numbers) to see if your high pH is coming from the tap water or something in the tank. It sounds like your tank decorations and gravel should be inert unless the store is selling something that they are not properly identifying or describing. The terra cotta plant pots shouldn't be causing an issue unless they are made from something different than standard clay plant pots. They shouldn't be dissolving or leaching but I guess there is always a chance. The tap water test results will help to know where to look. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water and testing results You are right. The Nitrate is 20ppm and the Nitrite is 0. I'm sure of that because the Nitrite was a really pretty color :) And I've been making sure to do the test in alphabetical order, Nitrate before Nitrite. The water still looks cloudy to me. I am using API tap water conditioner and API stress zyme. I think that PetCo does sell the Seaman's brand that you were talking about. Unfortunately, I do not have any small fish stores around me and I don't know anyone with an aquarium. I bought all of my decorations and gravel at either Petco or Petsmart except for two small terra cotta pots that I bought for my frogs to hide in, but that was recommended on a DAF site. What, if anything, should I do next? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > OK... there's one probable typo in your test results. See 3rd paragraph. > I'm presuming these tap water test results were your initial results, > right out the tap. We also need you to re-test the same glass or jug > of water at > 24 hours and 48 hours as the pH will often change. Your tap water > could have a higher CO2 level right out the pipe and as that CO2 > outgases from the water, the pH could rise. pH can also go down over > the 48 hour baseline testing so let us know. > > The 0.25 Ammonia is fairly normal presuming your tap water is treated > with Chloramine (Chlorine-Ammonia compound) so a 0.25 to 0.5 ppm level > would be normal. > > I think the typo is with the next two numbers. I'm presuming the > nitrIte is 0.20 and the nitrAte is 0, especially since our test kits > are not set up to test nitrAtes down into the tenths. The kits > usually go in 5 full point to 10 point increments so the nitrAte tests > would go from 5.0 to 10.0 to 20.0, etc. > > The test strips are OK for the GH and KH as it gives us a general > range of your general hardness and carbonate hardness but when you run > out of them, look for the API combo GH/KH test kit package to go with > your Master Test Kit and you'll be good to go for a year. It is good > to replace the kit yearly or as needed as the chemical reagent drops > become inaccurate after being opened for a year. ALSO... remember to > shake all your bottles well before each use. Some instructions > mention shaking some of them but it's best to shake them all well... > and the ones they say to shake for 30 seconds, shake for a minute. > Just so you know, the ppm levels for your GH and KH would equate to > around 8 dH (degrees of Hardness) for your GH and 10 dH for your KH. > (1dH = apx. 18ppm) > > If your test strips have a test for chlorine, as you indicate, and > it's not showing anything, before you added dechlor to your water, > then that just shows you how inaccurate most test strips seem to be, > based on my experience/experiments with a couple of brands many years > ago. Of course, you could check with your water utility to see what > they use for disinfecting your drinking water. There are other > compounds besides chloramine that can be used but since you say it > smells like it's chlorinated, it likely is... and the ammonia likely > means it's actually chloramine, not chlorine. > > As far as this stuff being exhausting, yes, cycling with fish, which > we do not recommend, is a LOT more work than doing a fishless cycle > first and then adding the fish. It's also MUCH safer and healthier > for the fish. Just DO NOT add any more fish while you are working > through the cycling with fish period, which can take up to 8 weeks or > longer... if one makes a mistake like trashing the filter cartridge > since filter media is where the overwhelming majority of nitrifying > bacteria will live. The Bio-Wheel probably saved you from even worse > conditions as the Bio-Wheel also had a lot of nitrifying bacteria on > it so it's not like you trashed all of your N-bacteria. > > The good news is that it's like learning to ride a bike. Once you > learn all the basics, you look back and wonder what was so difficult. > I'm not sure it's as rough as having twins... although I can't speak from experience. > :-P > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cloudy water and testing results > > These are the results for my tap water > > PH 7.4 > Ammonia .25 > Nitrate .20 > Nitrite 0 > the next two I only have test strips for GH 150 KH 180 > > The test strip says there is no chlorine but the stuff smells like > poolwater to me--I can't believe I drink it. > > I tested it again after adding the dechlorinator and got essentially > the same results which makes me wonder if the dechlorinator does > anything or if I didn't mix the water enough. > > Again your replies are helpful. I did a 25% or so water change today > vaccuming the gravel as well. The water does look clearer. Everyone > seems happy. I am exausted though. This tank stuff is almost as hard > as having twins ;) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > No I didn't. Re-read my reply. ;-) I talked about Ammonia in the > > first paragraph and then Nitrite in the second paragraph. It's > > probably something to do with coming out of six months of darkness > > up there in Alaska.... right \\Steve//? ;-) > > > > I should have elaborated more in the first paragraph about still > > doing PWC's to keep the ammonia at a low enough level that Prime can > > handle, but the Prime will handle the ammonia up to pretty high > > levels and the PWC's mentioned in the second paragraph, about > > Nitrites, will keep ammonia at more reasonable levels for the Prime. > > > > As long as she posts her numbers daily, we'll be able to give more > > instructions as needed, based on the numbers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM > SAINTS? > > WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:52 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > > > Hey Lenny Nitrites were .25ppm, you read them backwards ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > OK... with such a high pH, you need to get a dechlor product like > > > Seachem's Prime which will neutralize the ammonia. Ammonia become > > > MUCH MORE toxic at higher pH levels so even PWC's will not help you. > > > > > > You can add a pinch of salt per 10G of water to protect your fish > > > from brown blood disease (nitrite poisoning) but it's still best > > > to keep nitrites below the 1.0ppm range, even with the salt > > > (regular table salt will do and you just need a pinch per 10G, > > > dilute it in a cup of water first) You can keep nitrites below > > > that level with PWC's as needed. > > > > > > As I suspected, trashing your filter cartridge at the same time > > > that you added more fish likely caused this issue... although, > > > even adding more fish will cause a mini-cycle to happen with > > > ammonia and nitrite temporarily rising. > > > > > > Since you have such a high pH, you should just get and use Prime > > > as your dechlor product all the time so you are better off safe than sorry. > > > > > > Go to my blog and see my article about "Find your tap water baseline" > > > and start that process so we can know if it's your tap water that > > > is the reason for your higher pH or if it's something in the tank. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > > > Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > > twin_chicken_mama > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:01 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cloudy water and testing results > > > > > > I went out and bought a master water testing kit with the little > > > test tubes. > > > > > > My Ammonia was 1.0ppm > > > Nitrate was 10.0ppm > > > Nitrite was .25ppm > > > PH was 8.2 > > > > > > Any suggestions on how to correct this would be appreciated. I > > > obviously need to do a water change soon, but it might have to > > > wait until the kids are in bed ;) > > > > > > Thanks for your help

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47550	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

There you go again Lenny Taking all the fun out of electoruction, I mean fish keeping. I have had bad heaters that have given me a tingle. When I have a cut or a hangnail I can feel it. -Mike "A decent GFCI (not one from the dollar store) and some basic common sense (like not working bare-footed around water and electricity and not holding onto metal while working around water and electricity) will keep people from winning a Darwy! If they don't follow or have that basic common sense, then we need them to win a Darwy to remove them from the gene pool. ;-)" -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes Your mythbusters thread will likely look much like this one or the one that Lainey did on PlantedTank.net. A decent GFCI (not one from the dollar store) and some basic common sense (like not working bare-footed around water and electricity and not holding onto metal while working around water and electricity) will keep people from winning a Darwy! If they don't follow or have that basic common sense, then we need them to win a Darwy to remove them from the gene pool. ;-) http://www.darwinawards.com/ - "Honoring those who improve the species... by accidentally removing themselves from it!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7501919888/m/66119047401 If anyone wants to follow my mythbuster's post (on their forums). :) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it > has 44 posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/> > 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html > > But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and > without GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is > grounded, which I don't really understand. > > I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's that > simple. But why won't I just do that??? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this one > > ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for responding, Sam - > >> > >> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. > >> > >> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your > >> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner > >> or later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will > >> get shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if > >> people are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can > >> happen theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked > >> or hurt from this. > >> > >> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't > >> actually know. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > >> > >>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > >>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47551	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Titanium grounding probes

I know that one didn't pass the old spell-checker. I'm glad your typo used a "u" and not an "e" or your post could have been picked up as spam for promoting some kind of new Japanese Election pill. (hint - say it with a Japanese accent.. lol) And here I thought that an electric shock only caused hair to stand up. LOL I guess you picked Sycacuse in the college playoffs too... right? (If you're wondering about Sycacuse, Google it!) OK... back to fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes There you go again Lenny Taking all the fun out of electoruction, I mean fish keeping. I have had bad heaters that have given me a tingle. When I have a cut or a hangnail I can feel it. -Mike "A decent GFCI (not one from the dollar store) and some basic common sense (like not working bare-footed around water and electricity and not holding onto metal while working around water and electricity) will keep people from winning a Darwy! If they don't follow or have that basic common sense, then we need them to win a Darwy to remove them from the gene pool. ;-)" -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Mar 23, 2010 3:52 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes Your mythbusters thread will likely look much like this one or the one that Lainey did on PlantedTank.net. A decent GFCI (not one from the dollar store) and some basic common sense (like not working bare-footed around water and electricity and not holding onto metal while working around water and electricity) will keep people from winning a Darwy! If they don't follow or have that basic common sense, then we need them to win a Darwy to remove them from the gene pool. ;-) http://www.darwinawards.com/ - "Honoring those who improve the species... by accidentally removing themselves from it!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Titanium grounding probes http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7501919888/m/66119047401 If anyone wants to follow my mythbuster's post (on their forums). :) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I started a thread on planted tank about this, and in a few hours it > has 44 posts, and everyone is arguing and no one agrees on anything: > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/ > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/> > 104884-electrical-shock-risk-planted-tanks.html > > But I will say this: lots of people have gotten shocked, with and > without GFI. Many are saying GFI won't protect unless the tank is > grounded, which I don't really understand. > > I think I have to turn off the power when I go in the water, it's that > simple. But why won't I just do that??? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I think we need to ask Mythbusters to find out the truth on this one > > ;) LOL > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for responding, Sam - > >> > >> I honestly don't know what the concern is, that's the problem. > >> > >> I guess what I have been told is that if you are going into your > >> fresh tanks daily (which I do with five tanks all planted), sooner > >> or later one of your heaters are going to malfuntion and you will > >> get shocked and maybe really hurt. I can't tell if it's true or if > >> people are just saying this to be extra cautious because it can > >> happen theoretically. I have never talked to anyone who got shocked > >> or hurt from this. > >> > >> But then some people have told me it can even be fatal - so I don't > >> actually know. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Sam Palermo wrote: > >> > >>> Not to step on toes here, what is the electrical concern? > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > >>> Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47552	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Algae

I have noticed some large (1/4 inch) brown algae spots mostly in the corners where the sides/back/front glass meet and also on the heater (set @76) and near the bottom of the tank. Is this a bad thing? Only lighting is ambient lighting; not direct sunlight. Sometimes I do turn the lights on but not for more than 2 hours. I have a 2 bulb fluorescent kit; each bulb is 25 watts. Thus far I have not added any algae eaters but plan on adding them. Feeding is only once a day and water Alex Semper Fi Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47553	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Stocking Info / Suggestion

Tank is 75g US with a 5g US sump reservoir Currently I have about 10 plastic plants (aquarium safe), 1 large piece of Mopani Driftwood (not leaching any longer Current stock is: 1 Endler Livebearer - Poecilia wingei 9 Guppy - Poecilia reticulata 7 Neon Tetras - Paracheirodon innesi 2 Emeral Green Cory - Brochis splendens 5 Zebrafish / Daio - Danio rerio I currently have the following in a Quarantine tank. 3 Emerald Cory’s 5 Mickey Mouse Platy, 3 Red and 2 Gold Twin Bar Platy - Xiphophorus maculates A question I have about the quarantine tank; a 10 gallon tank by the way: The Cory’s have been there 2 weeks and have shown no illness. However the Platy’s were added just this week without removing the Cory’s. So far the Cory's do not show any illness that may have been brought in by the Platy's. Would it be OK to move the Cory’s even thought they have cohabited with the Platy’s BEFORE the 2 week period is over for the Platy’s or should I just wait the rest of the week? What other fish can I add? I was thinking of a Pleco (suggestions welcome) and maybe 5 Otto (Otocinclus) Will adding more fish be even recommended? Using the max length of adult fish I would be @ 90.5 inches after adding those from the Q tank Again, thanks and I look forward to your replies Alex Semper Fi Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47554	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Stocking Info / Suggestion

No, you shouldn't move the fish. Once you introduced more fish into the Q-tank, it basically starts the timing all over since you don't know if the platies were safe or not and you have to give them all several weeks to show they're all OK. Consider it a lesson learned this time and wait until you've emptied the Q-tank next time before getting more fish. Also, I'm not sure about only quarantining for two weeks. I usually try to quarantine for a month although I have cheated a little when I knew the fish to be from a reliable source... but not if from a big-box pet store. Read this article for more details and info. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article37.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:51 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Stocking Info / Suggestion Tank is 75g US with a 5g US sump reservoir Currently I have about 10 plastic plants (aquarium safe), 1 large piece of Mopani Driftwood (not leaching any longer Current stock is: 1 Endler Livebearer - Poecilia wingei 9 Guppy - Poecilia reticulata 7 Neon Tetras - Paracheirodon innesi 2 Emeral Green Cory - Brochis splendens 5 Zebrafish / Daio - Danio rerio I currently have the following in a Quarantine tank. 3 Emerald Cory's 5 Mickey Mouse Platy, 3 Red and 2 Gold Twin Bar Platy - Xiphophorus maculates A question I have about the quarantine tank; a 10 gallon tank by the way: The Cory's have been there 2 weeks and have shown no illness. However the Platy's were added just this week without removing the Cory's. So far the Cory's do not show any illness that may have been brought in by the Platy's. Would it be OK to move the Cory's even thought they have cohabited with the Platy's BEFORE the 2 week period is over for the Platy's or should I just wait the rest of the week? What other fish can I add? I was thinking of a Pleco (suggestions welcome) and maybe 5 Otto (Otocinclus) Will adding more fish be even recommended? Using the max length of adult fish I would be @ 90.5 inches after adding those from the Q tank Again, thanks and I look forward to your replies Alex Semper Fi Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47555	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: 24 hour water test results

Ok here goes Ammonia is 0 Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0 GH 150 KH 180 pH 8.0 Does that seem right that the pH is going up or do you think my previous numbers were faulty? BTW my DH almost tossed out my water sample! He is used to me leaving weird things around the house...fortunately I stopped him!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47556	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: 24 hour water test results

Yes. I explained this earlier although you may have missed it. When tap water is in the pipes, not exposed to air, there could and often is a higher CO2 level in the water and CO2 will lower the pH. This is the reason for the 48 hour baseline, to give the water a chance to stabilize and outgas CO2 and ingas O2 to *normal* levels and then you will know your true baseline parameters. At least we know why your tank's pH level is as high as it is. This also means that it would be MUCH better for you to use Prime as your dechlor, especially while you are cycling with fish but it would also be a good idea to use it all the time so you don't have to worry about a possible small ammonia spike that causes ammonia toxicity issues to your fish. A small ammonia spike can happen if you over clean your filter media or if you add new fish to the tank or if something dies and you don't realize it and it starts to decay. In a tank with a 6.5 to 7.5 pH, small amounts of ammonia <0.5ppm, aren't that critical but at a pH of 8.0 and up, those small amounts of ammonia become toxic. The good news about your hard, high pH water is that if you ever decide to keep African Rift Lake cichlids, you won't have to do much to your water. Make sure you tell your DH that those pretty colored test tubes of liquid are not adult beverage shots. ;-) Oh yeah.. remember... it's Ammonia> NitrIte> NitrAte. That's the best way to post your numbers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] 24 hour water test results Ok here goes Ammonia is 0 Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0 GH 150 KH 180 pH 8.0 Does that seem right that the pH is going up or do you think my previous numbers were faulty? BTW my DH almost tossed out my water sample! He is used to me leaving weird things around the house...fortunately I stopped him!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47557	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Algae

"Brown Algae" isn't actually algae. They are diatoms. They often show up in new tanks for the first six months or so. Is your tank still kind of new? Diatoms live off of silicates so silicone from a new tank are credited with feeding them. I've also seen where they'll grow on a heater and it's best to brush them off frequently as I've read that they can get very crusty on the heater where they should brush off of other things quite easily. Here's more reading about them. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article85.html http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/algae/diatoms.shtml http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/algae.htm#brown (shortest article) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:37 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Algae I have noticed some large (1/4 inch) brown algae spots mostly in the corners where the sides/back/front glass meet and also on the heater (set @76) and near the bottom of the tank. Is this a bad thing? Only lighting is ambient lighting; not direct sunlight. Sometimes I do turn the lights on but not for more than 2 hours. I have a 2 bulb fluorescent kit; each bulb is 25 watts. Thus far I have not added any algae eaters but plan on adding them. Feeding is only once a day and water Alex Semper Fi Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47558	From: Mina	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply

thank you ray lenny an amber. i will see about getting a bigger tank for the dragon fish an put him in it by himself. also he is eating just what seems to me not a whole lot. he isnt stavring. i found this site from the uk that tells about violet gobys. an the way he is eating is the way they do. an my question was about home made food. being i live on a budget i wanted some ideas of stuff i can buy on my food stamps incase i cant get fish food. lenny i ready someof your stuff thanks. as to who had the photo links of diffrent dragon fish they didnt show me any photos just what was written so i thats why i did a search for photos. as for taking your advice. i wouldnt have asked if i wasnt going to at least try. i also would not have joined this group if i wasnt going to take your advice as i am able too. an to ray as for my not having my other fish. they got sick an died. plus i also moved several times an had to give them away. my mom's pleco would still be alive if i hadnt bought sick fish from wal mart. they all died in a couple days one by one. then i lost my mom's fish. which was horrible for me for i lost my mom dec 29 2008 to suicide. so with that i got new fish an joined here so i dont lose these. looking at my mom's tank empty is awful. i might not be a fish keeper like you all but i have never had any trouble. i use to keep mollies an bettas all in the same tanks. as well as keeping 2 betta in the same tank with a divider. that had hole they probibly could have gotten threw. but ihad not fighting at all between males. an i have read some fish book an info online but its not the same as talking to someone that has the same fish or has had the same fish hense my joining here. i dont mean to sound rude. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Make sure not to change the salt levels too much at once as well, not > sure if it matters as much to a brackish fish, but I would still raise > them slowly over a week or more time period just to make sure it's not > shocked and dies. > > Amber > > sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Stef, First of all, I'd like to make it perfectly clear that you have not > > been a source of frustration. This is why we're here, to give advice > > -- and > > we enjoy doing it if we know it will help other hobbyists. We might > > appreciate your following our advice, for your own benefit, but you > > may choose > > whatever you wish -- that's your choice. Now, getting to the matters > > of your > > most recent post: > > > > All single-tailed (Common and "Comet") Goldfish have the genetic > > possibility of attaining a length of at least 12", perhaps slightly > > more -- when given > > adequate room. A Fancy Goldfish should get to at least 8", much bigger > > than your hand. For a Goldfish not to get to this size would mean that > > it has > > been stunted. While you may have maintained such Goldfish BEFORE as > > you're > > describing (as not getting bigger than your hand), for good lengths of > > time > > apparently live and well, they most probably had suffered unseen (by you) > > stress related issues to their health as a result of their being > > stunted -- OR > > you should have STILL HAD these fish right now, as Goldfish should easily > > get to 20 years old or more if kept in adequate conditions (including > > size of > > tank). > > > > While there are a good number of different Pleco species, most of the > > smaller ones (Ancistrus -- "Bushy-Nose", etc.) don't grow much more > > than about 6" > > long -- and the remainder, larger species get much bigger than 12". I > > don't really know of any that just get to the size of your 12" one. > > although I > > may have overlooked a few. The common Pleco normally found in many > > tropical > > fish stores, EASILY gets to a minimum of 18" or so -- or larger. If your > > catfish is a Common Pleco, please know that it must be stunted, and > > severely > > so for it to be only 12". The 10 gallon tank that you previously > > mentioned > > is WWAAAAYYY too small to maintain your 3 fish in properly, even > > though I can > > understand your financial dilemma at this time. To upgrade to at least a > > 20 gallon tank should not take $60, unless you need to buy a stand for > > it. > > Otherwise, you can use all your equipment from your 10 gallon tank on > > this 20 > > gallon, and do without a hood (at least until you can swing one) if you > > don't have live plants. Have you thought about checking out Craigslist > > for > > used equipment? Many members have gotten some great deals on much larger > > aquariums going that route. > > > > Getting back to your Dragon Fish (Dragon Goby ?), there's really no need > > now for you to try to find the scientific name of your fish, since > > Lenny has > > posted pics of what we believe this fish to be. If you would just go > > up to > > the links Lenny has provided, to possibly verify that this is what you > > have > > (if it is this fish), then we'll all know the I.D. of you're fish -- > > including you. Please check out Lenny's links for an I.D. > > > > Good to know that your Dragon Fish was eating off the bottom as well > > as off > > the surface -- even though it's not eating now. I'm glad to see that your > > pet shop owner, Tony, has been in the fish selling business for 40 years. > > Please know that I'm not here to bash or discredit Tony, but have you > > wondered why your Dragon Fish is not eating, even though you've > > received advice on > > this fish from him? For starters, as we surmise -- if this is actually a > > Dragon Goby -- their salt needs are MUCH MUCH higher than the 1 > > Tablespoon > > per 5 gallons that you're using. To increase that salinity to near the > > minimum amount of salt needed for this fish, it takes 1 cup of > > preferably MARINE > > SALT MIX per 5 gallons to increase the specific gravity by 0.005 -- > > over the > > freshwater specific gravity of 1.000. Depending on the age of this > > fish, it > > will be most comfortable at a brackish salinity of approximately 1.010 -- > > or -- 2 cups of marine salt mix per 5 gallons of water. This would > > kill any > > freshwater fish, let alone a Pleco which doesn't tolerate very much salt. > > By this, I hope you might see that the advice you've been given -- > > both of > > the needed size of your tank and now the amount of salt needed to > > maintain > > this fish in a healthy manner are erroneous. While you and/or your > > mother may > > not have ever lost a fish due to Tony's advice, they have been severely > > stunted over the years -- shortening their lifespan -- and now facing > > health > > issues as a result. This bad advice alone (of 1 TBSP salt per 5 > > gallons) that > > has now caused your Dragon Fish to decline to the point of not eating > > should > > be cause enough to be able to bring him back. > > > > We have nothing to gain by bad-mouthing any shop owner, and it's not our > > intention to do so, but we would only wish to enlighten you on what > > you may > > have missed when completely relying on him. If you did not intend to > > take our > > advice (since it seems as though you're "defending" him), I fail to see > > what you bothered posting here for and asking for advice if you don't > > intend on > > at least accepting (or considering) it -- but this is not meant in any > > adverse way, it's just an observation leaving me with this mysterious > > question > > in mind -- or maybe (hopefully) you may be able to understand that we > > only > > mean to give you the best knowledge we can for your benefit and your > > fishes' > > -- and we wouldn't attempt to do so unless we knew what was in your > > fishes' > > best interest Please feel free to post here anytime about any fish > > problem, > > and we'd be more than glad to try to help. Ray. > > </HTML> > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47559	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguan

OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/03/north_lousiana_lawmaker_wants .html OR http://tinyurl.com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially," possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47560	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply

Ahhh... we did forget all about your question about DIY fish food. You're in luck. See this profile/care sheet on Mongabay. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gobioides_broussonnetii.html FOOD: Live; fish, earthworms, Tubifex, aquatic insects, insect larvae http://fish.mongabay.com/food.htm#Insect_Larvae; chopped meat. In nature this species feeds on small organisms in the substrate, by sifting mud in its mouth. (END SNIP) You can easily set up an earthworm or other worm box. This page has five different types of worms that you can grow yourself. http://www.killi.net/feeding/live/cultured/worms/ This article also has easy instructions on building an worm box and discusses different types of worms. http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html You could also try one of the DIY Gel Foods using ground up worms, possibly as a way of not having to deal with the live worms constantly and you could leave some in the box to continue multiplying until the next time you need some for another batch of DIY Gel Food. At least, with the Gel Food, you'll know he's getting a balanced meal. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mina Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dragon Fish - reply thank you ray lenny an amber. i will see about getting a bigger tank for the dragon fish an put him in it by himself. also he is eating just what seems to me not a whole lot. he isnt stavring. i found this site from the uk that tells about violet gobys. an the way he is eating is the way they do. an my question was about home made food. being i live on a budget i wanted some ideas of stuff i can buy on my food stamps incase i cant get fish food. lenny i ready someof your stuff thanks. as to who had the photo links of diffrent dragon fish they didnt show me any photos just what was written so i thats why i did a search for photos. as for taking your advice. i wouldnt have asked if i wasnt going to at least try. i also would not have joined this group if i wasnt going to take your advice as i am able too. an to ray as for my not having my other fish. they got sick an died. plus i also moved several times an had to give them away. my mom's pleco would still be alive if i hadnt bought sick fish from wal mart. they all died in a couple days one by one. then i lost my mom's fish. which was horrible for me for i lost my mom dec 29 2008 to suicide. so with that i got new fish an joined here so i dont lose these. looking at my mom's tank empty is awful. i might not be a fish keeper like you all but i have never had any trouble. i use to keep mollies an bettas all in the same tanks. as well as keeping 2 betta in the same tank with a divider. that had hole they probibly could have gotten threw. but ihad not fighting at all between males. an i have read some fish book an info online but its not the same as talking to someone that has the same fish or has had the same fish hense my joining here. i dont mean to sound rude. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Make sure not to change the salt levels too much at once as well, not > sure if it matters as much to a brackish fish, but I would still raise > them slowly over a week or more time period just to make sure it's not > shocked and dies. > > Amber > > sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Stef, First of all, I'd like to make it perfectly clear that you > > have not been a source of frustration. This is why we're here, to > > give advice > > -- and > > we enjoy doing it if we know it will help other hobbyists. We might > > appreciate your following our advice, for your own benefit, but you > > may choose whatever you wish -- that's your choice. Now, getting to > > the matters of your most recent post: > > > > All single-tailed (Common and "Comet") Goldfish have the genetic > > possibility of attaining a length of at least 12", perhaps slightly > > more -- when given adequate room. A Fancy Goldfish should get to at > > least 8", much bigger than your hand. For a Goldfish not to get to > > this size would mean that it has been stunted. While you may have > > maintained such Goldfish BEFORE as you're describing (as not getting > > bigger than your hand), for good lengths of time apparently live and > > well, they most probably had suffered unseen (by you) stress related > > issues to their health as a result of their being stunted -- OR you > > should have STILL HAD these fish right now, as Goldfish should > > easily get to 20 years old or more if kept in adequate conditions > > (including size of tank). > > > > While there are a good number of different Pleco species, most of > > the smaller ones (Ancistrus -- "Bushy-Nose", etc.) don't grow much > > more than about 6" > > long -- and the remainder, larger species get much bigger than 12". > > I don't really know of any that just get to the size of your 12" one. > > although I > > may have overlooked a few. The common Pleco normally found in many > > tropical fish stores, EASILY gets to a minimum of 18" or so -- or > > larger. If your catfish is a Common Pleco, please know that it must > > be stunted, and severely so for it to be only 12". The 10 gallon > > tank that you previously mentioned is WWAAAAYYY too small to > > maintain your 3 fish in properly, even though I can understand your > > financial dilemma at this time. To upgrade to at least a 20 gallon > > tank should not take $60, unless you need to buy a stand for it. > > Otherwise, you can use all your equipment from your 10 gallon tank > > on this 20 gallon, and do without a hood (at least until you can > > swing one) if you don't have live plants. Have you thought about > > checking out Craigslist for used equipment? Many members have gotten > > some great deals on much larger aquariums going that route. > > > > Getting back to your Dragon Fish (Dragon Goby ?), there's really no > > need now for you to try to find the scientific name of your fish, > > since Lenny has posted pics of what we believe this fish to be. If > > you would just go up to the links Lenny has provided, to possibly > > verify that this is what you have (if it is this fish), then we'll > > all know the I.D. of you're fish -- including you. Please check out > > Lenny's links for an I.D. > > > > Good to know that your Dragon Fish was eating off the bottom as well > > as off the surface -- even though it's not eating now. I'm glad to > > see that your pet shop owner, Tony, has been in the fish selling > > business for 40 years. > > Please know that I'm not here to bash or discredit Tony, but have > > you wondered why your Dragon Fish is not eating, even though you've > > received advice on this fish from him? For starters, as we surmise > > -- if this is actually a Dragon Goby -- their salt needs are MUCH > > MUCH higher than the 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons that you're using. > > To increase that salinity to near the minimum amount of salt needed > > for this fish, it takes 1 cup of preferably MARINE SALT MIX per 5 > > gallons to increase the specific gravity by 0.005 -- over the > > freshwater specific gravity of 1.000. Depending on the age of this > > fish, it will be most comfortable at a brackish salinity of > > approximately 1.010 -- or -- 2 cups of marine salt mix per 5 gallons > > of water. This would kill any freshwater fish, let alone a Pleco > > which doesn't tolerate very much salt. > > By this, I hope you might see that the advice you've been given -- > > both of the needed size of your tank and now the amount of salt > > needed to maintain this fish in a healthy manner are erroneous. > > While you and/or your mother may not have ever lost a fish due to > > Tony's advice, they have been severely stunted over the years -- > > shortening their lifespan -- and now facing health issues as a > > result. This bad advice alone (of 1 TBSP salt per 5 > > gallons) that > > has now caused your Dragon Fish to decline to the point of not > > eating should be cause enough to be able to bring him back. > > > > We have nothing to gain by bad-mouthing any shop owner, and it's not > > our intention to do so, but we would only wish to enlighten you on > > what you may have missed when completely relying on him. If you did > > not intend to take our advice (since it seems as though you're > > "defending" him), I fail to see what you bothered posting here for > > and asking for advice if you don't intend on at least accepting (or > > considering) it -- but this is not meant in any adverse way, it's > > just an observation leaving me with this mysterious question in mind > > -- or maybe (hopefully) you may be able to understand that we only > > mean to give you the best knowledge we can for your benefit and your > > fishes' > > -- and we wouldn't attempt to do so unless we knew what was in your > > fishes' > > best interest Please feel free to post here anytime about any fish > > problem, and we'd be more than glad to try to help. Ray. > > </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47561	From: Mina	Date: 3/25/2010
Subject: Re: Dragon Fish - reply

thank you lenny an i bookmarked your blog this time so i can read it again. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Ahhh... we did forget all about your question about DIY fish food. You're > in luck. See this profile/care sheet on Mongabay. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gobioides_broussonnetii.html > > FOOD: Live; fish, earthworms, Tubifex, aquatic insects, insect larvae > http://fish.mongabay.com/food.htm#Insect_Larvae; chopped meat. In nature > this species feeds on small organisms in the substrate, by sifting mud in > its mouth. > (END SNIP) > > You can easily set up an earthworm or other worm box. This page has five > different types of worms that you can grow yourself. > http://www.killi.net/feeding/live/cultured/worms/ > > This article also has easy instructions on building an worm box and > discusses different types of worms. > http://www.thekrib.com/Food/worms.html > > You could also try one of the DIY Gel Foods using ground up worms, possibly > as a way of not having to deal with the live worms constantly and you could > leave some in the box to continue multiplying until the next time you need > some for another batch of DIY Gel Food. At least, with the Gel Food, you'll > know he's getting a balanced meal. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mina > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Dragon Fish - reply > > thank you ray lenny an amber. > > i will see about getting a bigger tank for the dragon fish an put him in it > by himself. > > also he is eating just what seems to me not a whole lot. he isnt stavring. > i found this site from the uk that tells about violet gobys. an the way he > is eating is the way they do. an my question was about home made food. > being i live on a budget i wanted some ideas of stuff i can buy on my food > stamps incase i cant get fish food. lenny i ready someof your stuff thanks. > as to who had the photo links of diffrent dragon fish they didnt show me any > photos just what was written so i thats why i did a search for photos. > > as for taking your advice. i wouldnt have asked if i wasnt going to at least > try. i also would not have joined this group if i wasnt going to take your > advice as i am able too. > > an to ray as for my not having my other fish. they got sick an died. plus > i also moved several times an had to give them away. my mom's pleco would > still be alive if i hadnt bought sick fish from wal mart. they all died in a > couple days one by one. then i lost my mom's fish. which was horrible for me > for i lost my mom dec 29 2008 to suicide. so with that i got new fish an > joined here so i dont lose these. looking at my mom's tank empty is awful. > i might not be a fish keeper like you all but i have never had any trouble. > i use to keep mollies an bettas all in the same tanks. as well as keeping 2 > betta in the same tank with a divider. that had hole they probibly could > have gotten threw. but ihad not fighting at all between males. an i have > read some fish book an info online but its not the same as talking to > someone that has the same fish or has had the same fish hense my joining > here. i dont mean to sound rude. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > Make sure not to change the salt levels too much at once as well, not > > sure if it matters as much to a brackish fish, but I would still raise > > them slowly over a week or more time period just to make sure it's not > > shocked and dies. > > > > Amber > > > > sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > Stef, First of all, I'd like to make it perfectly clear that you > > > have not been a source of frustration. This is why we're here, to > > > give advice > > > -- and > > > we enjoy doing it if we know it will help other hobbyists. We might > > > appreciate your following our advice, for your own benefit, but you > > > may choose whatever you wish -- that's your choice. Now, getting to > > > the matters of your most recent post: > > > > > > All single-tailed (Common and "Comet") Goldfish have the genetic > > > possibility of attaining a length of at least 12", perhaps slightly > > > more -- when given adequate room. A Fancy Goldfish should get to at > > > least 8", much bigger than your hand. For a Goldfish not to get to > > > this size would mean that it has been stunted. While you may have > > > maintained such Goldfish BEFORE as you're describing (as not getting > > > bigger than your hand), for good lengths of time apparently live and > > > well, they most probably had suffered unseen (by you) stress related > > > issues to their health as a result of their being stunted -- OR you > > > should have STILL HAD these fish right now, as Goldfish should > > > easily get to 20 years old or more if kept in adequate conditions > > > (including size of tank). > > > > > > While there are a good number of different Pleco species, most of > > > the smaller ones (Ancistrus -- "Bushy-Nose", etc.) don't grow much > > > more than about 6" > > > long -- and the remainder, larger species get much bigger than 12". > > > I don't really know of any that just get to the size of your 12" one. > > > although I > > > may have overlooked a few. The common Pleco normally found in many > > > tropical fish stores, EASILY gets to a minimum of 18" or so -- or > > > larger. If your catfish is a Common Pleco, please know that it must > > > be stunted, and severely so for it to be only 12". The 10 gallon > > > tank that you previously mentioned is WWAAAAYYY too small to > > > maintain your 3 fish in properly, even though I can understand your > > > financial dilemma at this time. To upgrade to at least a 20 gallon > > > tank should not take $60, unless you need to buy a stand for it. > > > Otherwise, you can use all your equipment from your 10 gallon tank > > > on this 20 gallon, and do without a hood (at least until you can > > > swing one) if you don't have live plants. Have you thought about > > > checking out Craigslist for used equipment? Many members have gotten > > > some great deals on much larger aquariums going that route. > > > > > > Getting back to your Dragon Fish (Dragon Goby ?), there's really no > > > need now for you to try to find the scientific name of your fish, > > > since Lenny has posted pics of what we believe this fish to be. If > > > you would just go up to the links Lenny has provided, to possibly > > > verify that this is what you have (if it is this fish), then we'll > > > all know the I.D. of you're fish -- including you. Please check out > > > Lenny's links for an I.D. > > > > > > Good to know that your Dragon Fish was eating off the bottom as well > > > as off the surface -- even though it's not eating now. I'm glad to > > > see that your pet shop owner, Tony, has been in the fish selling > > > business for 40 years. > > > Please know that I'm not here to bash or discredit Tony, but have > > > you wondered why your Dragon Fish is not eating, even though you've > > > received advice on this fish from him? For starters, as we surmise > > > -- if this is actually a Dragon Goby -- their salt needs are MUCH > > > MUCH higher than the 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons that you're using. > > > To increase that salinity to near the minimum amount of salt needed > > > for this fish, it takes 1 cup of preferably MARINE SALT MIX per 5 > > > gallons to increase the specific gravity by 0.005 -- over the > > > freshwater specific gravity of 1.000. Depending on the age of this > > > fish, it will be most comfortable at a brackish salinity of > > > approximately 1.010 -- or -- 2 cups of marine salt mix per 5 gallons > > > of water. This would kill any freshwater fish, let alone a Pleco > > > which doesn't tolerate very much salt. > > > By this, I hope you might see that the advice you've been given -- > > > both of the needed size of your tank and now the amount of salt > > > needed to maintain this fish in a healthy manner are erroneous. > > > While you and/or your mother may not have ever lost a fish due to > > > Tony's advice, they have been severely stunted over the years -- > > > shortening their lifespan -- and now facing health issues as a > > > result. This bad advice alone (of 1 TBSP salt per 5 > > > gallons) that > > > has now caused your Dragon Fish to decline to the point of not > > > eating should be cause enough to be able to bring him back. > > > > > > We have nothing to gain by bad-mouthing any shop owner, and it's not > > > our intention to do so, but we would only wish to enlighten you on > > > what you may have missed when completely relying on him. If you did > > > not intend to take our advice (since it seems as though you're > > > "defending" him), I fail to see what you bothered posting here for > > > and asking for advice if you don't intend on at least accepting (or > > > considering) it -- but this is not meant in any adverse way, it's > > > just an observation leaving me with this mysterious question in mind > > > -- or maybe (hopefully) you may be able to understand that we only > > > mean to give you the best knowledge we can for your benefit and your > > > fishes' > > > -- and we wouldn't attempt to do so unless we knew what was in your > > > fishes' > > > best interest Please feel free to post here anytime about any fish > > > problem, and we'd be more than glad to try to help. Ray. > > > </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47562	From: Noura	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Conditioner

Hi group, Does it work if you put the dosed amount of conditioner in the tank and THEN add tap water to the tank? I want to do this to transfer water straight from the tap through a hose instead of carrying buckets. I'll do it gradually in winter times to avoid temeprature drops. Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47563	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: Conditioner

Yes. Many of us Python Water Change System (or Lee's or DIY) users do exactly that. Just add the correct amount of dechlor for the amount of water you will be replacing... not for the entire tank. Try not to over dose. I know lots of people do over dose, thinking they are erring on the side of caution, but eventually, the dechlor will build up to levels that probably aren't safe for the fish. Also, make sure the hose you use is potable water safe. A regular garden hose is not potable water safe and can leach various polymers into the water. This is more common with a garden hose that sits outside in the heat, with some water in the hose and these leaching polymers have been suspected as causing fish health issues for pond keepers. If, all you have is a garden hose, run your tap water through it for a minute or so before using it on your tank so there is less of a chance of contamination. If you've ever drank water out of a garden hose (as a kid or adult) on a hot summer day, you may remember that the water tested kind of plasticy or rubbery. That was the polymers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 3:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Conditioner Hi group, Does it work if you put the dosed amount of conditioner in the tank and THEN add tap water to the tank? I want to do this to transfer water straight from the tap through a hose instead of carrying buckets. I'll do it gradually in winter times to avoid temeprature drops. Thanks Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47564	From: harry perry	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny

If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a  hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM   OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47565	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: 24 hour water test results

I bought some SeaChem Prime and tossed it in the tank. I'll check the tank numbers tonight but it does seem a little clearer today. That stuff stinks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes. I explained this earlier although you may have missed it. When tap > water is in the pipes, not exposed to air, there could and often is a higher > CO2 level in the water and CO2 will lower the pH. This is the reason for > the 48 hour baseline, to give the water a chance to stabilize and outgas CO2 > and ingas O2 to *normal* levels and then you will know your true baseline > parameters. > > At least we know why your tank's pH level is as high as it is. > > This also means that it would be MUCH better for you to use Prime as your > dechlor, especially while you are cycling with fish but it would also be a > good idea to use it all the time so you don't have to worry about a possible > small ammonia spike that causes ammonia toxicity issues to your fish. A > small ammonia spike can happen if you over clean your filter media or if you > add new fish to the tank or if something dies and you don't realize it and > it starts to decay. In a tank with a 6.5 to 7.5 pH, small amounts of > ammonia <0.5ppm, aren't that critical but at a pH of 8.0 and up, those small > amounts of ammonia become toxic. > > The good news about your hard, high pH water is that if you ever decide to > keep African Rift Lake cichlids, you won't have to do much to your water. > > Make sure you tell your DH that those pretty colored test tubes of liquid > are not adult beverage shots. ;-) > > Oh yeah.. remember... it's Ammonia> NitrIte> NitrAte. That's the best way > to post your numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 24 hour water test results > > Ok here goes > > Ammonia is 0 > Nitrate 0 > Nitrite 0 > > GH 150 > KH 180 > pH 8.0 > > Does that seem right that the pH is going up or do you think my previous > numbers were faulty? > > BTW my DH almost tossed out my water sample! He is used to me leaving weird > things around the house...fortunately I stopped him! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47566	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny

It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a  hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/03/north_lousiana_lawmaker_wants .html OR http://tinyurl.com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47567	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: 24 hour water test results

LOL. You're not supposed to smell it... but out of curiosity, I just took a whiff of my dechlor's and they both stink also. It probably is considered perfume to a fish... considering their smell. ;-) I'm not sure that the Prime had anything to do with clearing up the tank... but if you test the tank, your nitrogen cycle is probably catching up now and that will clear up the white cloud of the bacterial bloom... as the bacteria find a surface area to call home. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 24 hour water test results I bought some SeaChem Prime and tossed it in the tank. I'll check the tank numbers tonight but it does seem a little clearer today. That stuff stinks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Yes. I explained this earlier although you may have missed it. When > tap water is in the pipes, not exposed to air, there could and often > is a higher > CO2 level in the water and CO2 will lower the pH. This is the reason > for the 48 hour baseline, to give the water a chance to stabilize and > outgas CO2 and ingas O2 to *normal* levels and then you will know your > true baseline parameters. > > At least we know why your tank's pH level is as high as it is. > > This also means that it would be MUCH better for you to use Prime as > your dechlor, especially while you are cycling with fish but it would > also be a good idea to use it all the time so you don't have to worry > about a possible small ammonia spike that causes ammonia toxicity > issues to your fish. A small ammonia spike can happen if you over > clean your filter media or if you add new fish to the tank or if > something dies and you don't realize it and it starts to decay. In a > tank with a 6.5 to 7.5 pH, small amounts of ammonia <0.5ppm, aren't > that critical but at a pH of 8.0 and up, those small amounts of ammonia become toxic. > > The good news about your hard, high pH water is that if you ever > decide to keep African Rift Lake cichlids, you won't have to do much to your water. > > Make sure you tell your DH that those pretty colored test tubes of > liquid are not adult beverage shots. ;-) > > Oh yeah.. remember... it's Ammonia> NitrIte> NitrAte. That's the best > way to post your numbers. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:28 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] 24 hour water test results > > Ok here goes > > Ammonia is 0 > Nitrate 0 > Nitrite 0 > > GH 150 > KH 180 > pH 8.0 > > Does that seem right that the pH is going up or do you think my > previous numbers were faulty? > > BTW my DH almost tossed out my water sample! He is used to me leaving > weird things around the house...fortunately I stopped him!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47568	From: harry perry	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM   It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a  hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47569	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation.... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians... and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC.org or http://www.naiaonline.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a  hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47570	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

Dear NAIA and/or PIJAC: Please see the following animal care discussion going on in our AquaticLife Yahoo Group, with a serious suggestion of some things that could be done by NAIA or PIJAC (or both), to help fend off future attacks by the AR fanatics or leftist/overzealous legislators. You can also read the thread online at: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47559 Just so you all know I'm real, here's my blog article about H.R. 669, from last year. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/04/oppose-hr-669-fish-and-other-non-nativ e.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation.... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians... and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC.org or http://www.naiaonline.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a  hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/03/north_lousiana_lawmaker_wants .html OR http://tinyurl.com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47571	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

Harry no kidding Lenny That is incorrect since the sales of most pets involve interstate commerce, Congress is well within its constitutional purview. If they don’t have computers to print it out at the store (sounds like a bad business decision these days), they could always go to the local Kinkos or other print shop or even local library if they are that far out in BFE and print out what they need for the shop (if they are that far out, they probably won’t need many anyhow). I would also bet that for the mom and pop store, they may know their suppliers on a bit more personal level that say something like PetCo and they can ask the supplier to bring in a few sheets on whatever animals they bring in and keep a copy on hand so they can go out and make copies as needed. Private sector would end up getting greedy and charge for access since I don’t think that advertising would generate enough revenue I doubt this would have the eyeballs of something like Google or yahoo, so that is not always the answer. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation.... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians... and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC. <http://www.PIJAC.org> org or http://www.naiaonli <http://www.naiaonline.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm> ne.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47572	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: microworm culture "fragrance" OK?

My fish really love these microworms, and I am committed to trying to feed them, but whoa, a good hunk of the house smells like yeast/beer/ vinegar or maybe something worse? I see tons of squiggling worms on the culture surface, and I do see them on the sides, although not as many as on the surface. The odor is strengthening each day and I'm just not sure I'm headed in the right direction. Is it normal for the culture to generate this much odor, or should I now reculture even though it's only been a week and there are loads of worms on the surface? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47573	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

Eric, That simply isn't true. For consumers buying from their local store, there is no interstate commerce involved. Now, for folks buying off of out-of-state websites or for stores that buy from out of State or out of the country, those could possibly be considered interstate commerce but NOT the transaction between the consumer and the store. Even buying car insurance from national companies, even over their websites, doesn't equal interstate commerce and it's why ALL insurance companies are regulated by the various States where they do business. Don't let this latest violation of the Constitution make you think that the Feds can regulate everything. Just because they believe they can, doesn't mean it's correct. You know how you can tell when a politician is lying... right??? Their lips are moving. That holds true for ALL politicians, not just left, right or undecided's. The Courts are constantly overturning legislation passed by Congress and State legislations all the time... because they aren't right all the time... and this latest attempt to thwart the Constitution will also be overturned by the Courts... if not by the voters even sooner. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Harry.no kidding. Lenny.That is incorrect since the sales of most pets involve interstate commerce, Congress is well within its constitutional purview. If they don't have computers to print it out at the store (sounds like a bad business decision these days), they could always go to the local Kinkos or other print shop or even local library if they are that far out in BFE and print out what they need for the shop (if they are that far out, they probably won't need many anyhow). I would also bet that for the mom and pop store, they may know their suppliers on a bit more personal level that say something like PetCo and they can ask the supplier to bring in a few sheets on whatever animals they bring in and keep a copy on hand so they can go out and make copies as needed. Private sector would end up getting greedy and charge for access since I don't think that advertising would generate enough revenue.I doubt this would have the eyeballs of something like Google or yahoo, so that is not always the answer. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation.... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians... and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC. <http://www.PIJAC.org> org or http://www.naiaonli <http://www.naiaonline.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm> ne.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47574	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: 24 hour water test results

The bottle had all these warnings about how much the stuff smells and that it is normal, so I had to smell it! Ok I did the 48 hour on the pH and it is 8 to 8.2 sort of looks in between them--that is for the tap water pH in the tank currently is between 7.4 and 7.6--on the regular pH test it is 7.6 but on the high range pH it is 7.4--better than 8 I guess. I will test the rest in the morning. I'm wiped out! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > LOL. You're not supposed to smell it... but out of curiosity, I just took a > whiff of my dechlor's and they both stink also. It probably is considered > perfume to a fish... considering their smell. ;-) > > I'm not sure that the Prime had anything to do with clearing up the tank... > but if you test the tank, your nitrogen cycle is probably catching up now > and that will clear up the white cloud of the bacterial bloom... as the > bacteria find a surface area to call home. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 24 hour water test results > > I bought some SeaChem Prime and tossed it in the tank. I'll check the tank > numbers tonight but it does seem a little clearer today. That stuff stinks! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > Yes. I explained this earlier although you may have missed it. When > > tap water is in the pipes, not exposed to air, there could and often > > is a higher > > CO2 level in the water and CO2 will lower the pH. This is the reason > > for the 48 hour baseline, to give the water a chance to stabilize and > > outgas CO2 and ingas O2 to *normal* levels and then you will know your > > true baseline parameters. > > > > At least we know why your tank's pH level is as high as it is. > > > > This also means that it would be MUCH better for you to use Prime as > > your dechlor, especially while you are cycling with fish but it would > > also be a good idea to use it all the time so you don't have to worry > > about a possible small ammonia spike that causes ammonia toxicity > > issues to your fish. A small ammonia spike can happen if you over > > clean your filter media or if you add new fish to the tank or if > > something dies and you don't realize it and it starts to decay. In a > > tank with a 6.5 to 7.5 pH, small amounts of ammonia <0.5ppm, aren't > > that critical but at a pH of 8.0 and up, those small amounts of ammonia > become toxic. > > > > The good news about your hard, high pH water is that if you ever > > decide to keep African Rift Lake cichlids, you won't have to do much to > your water. > > > > Make sure you tell your DH that those pretty colored test tubes of > > liquid are not adult beverage shots. ;-) > > > > Oh yeah.. remember... it's Ammonia> NitrIte> NitrAte. That's the best > > way to post your numbers. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:28 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] 24 hour water test results > > > > Ok here goes > > > > Ammonia is 0 > > Nitrate 0 > > Nitrite 0 > > > > GH 150 > > KH 180 > > pH 8.0 > > > > Does that seem right that the pH is going up or do you think my > > previous numbers were faulty? > > > > BTW my DH almost tossed out my water sample! He is used to me leaving > > weird things around the house...fortunately I stopped him! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47575	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

Lenny, It is more true than you probably would like to think. Where do your fish ultimately come from? Maybe a fish farm in Florida? Singapore? Brazil? Sure, some of the fish may be raised and sold in the state, but the truth is that most fish in most states come from other states or countries. Congress could step in and create legislation covering that commerce. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Eric, That simply isn't true. For consumers buying from their local store, there is no interstate commerce involved. Now, for folks buying off of out-of-state websites or for stores that buy from out of State or out of the country, those could possibly be considered interstate commerce but NOT the transaction between the consumer and the store. Even buying car insurance from national companies, even over their websites, doesn't equal interstate commerce and it's why ALL insurance companies are regulated by the various States where they do business. Don't let this latest violation of the Constitution make you think that the Feds can regulate everything. Just because they believe they can, doesn't mean it's correct. You know how you can tell when a politician is lying... right??? Their lips are moving. That holds true for ALL politicians, not just left, right or undecided's. The Courts are constantly overturning legislation passed by Congress and State legislations all the time... because they aren't right all the time... and this latest attempt to thwart the Constitution will also be overturned by the Courts... if not by the voters even sooner. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Harry.no kidding. Lenny.That is incorrect since the sales of most pets involve interstate commerce, Congress is well within its constitutional purview. If they don't have computers to print it out at the store (sounds like a bad business decision these days), they could always go to the local Kinkos or other print shop or even local library if they are that far out in BFE and print out what they need for the shop (if they are that far out, they probably won't need many anyhow). I would also bet that for the mom and pop store, they may know their suppliers on a bit more personal level that say something like PetCo and they can ask the supplier to bring in a few sheets on whatever animals they bring in and keep a copy on hand so they can go out and make copies as needed. Private sector would end up getting greedy and charge for access since I don't think that advertising would generate enough revenue.I doubt this would have the eyeballs of something like Google or yahoo, so that is not always the answer. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation.... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians... and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC. <http://www.PIJAC.org> org or http://www.naiaonli <http://www.naiaonline.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm> ne.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47576	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

Most of my fish come from a local retailer. The Feds aren't involved in that transaction in any way what so ever. Don't you think there would be a Federal Sales Tax or Excise tax on EVERY thing if they could do it without a MAJOR legislative change and Constitutional challenge... like what is currently happening? They do have federal "excise" taxes on some other products like gasoline/diesel fuel, phone service, car/truck tires, etc., as those products are truly involved in interstate commerce. Interstate Commerce legislation would/could affect the transportation between the retailer and an out-of-state distributor, when it is *interstate* (across state lines) commerce, BUT not between the retailer and the consumer, when it's within the same State. The States still regulate and taxes those transactions. Nearly every product we buy as consumers come from somewhere else, yet the Feds do not have dominion over the regulation of their commerce when between the retailer and the consumer.... only concerning their importation and transportation across State lines. For example, concerning prescription drugs, which we know are heavily regulated by the Feds, yet each State has legislation concerning the dispensing and sale of them and State Boards licenses the Pharmacists and Pharmacies that dispense and sell them to consumers. I realize the FDA is also intimately involved in the legislation of many products and the labeling of them, but our pets wouldn't fall under that kind of legislation... as it mainly affects the labeling of foods for human consumption. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition_Labeling_and_Education_Act (of 1990 controlled by the FDA) Electronic Prescribing laws - State by State - http://tinyurl.com/yghowo9 FOR http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:d5dh0MVCQ3EJ:www.nationalerx.com/m edia/docs/Leg_fact_sheet.pdf+prescription+drug+fact+sheet+legislation&hl=en& gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj9FiUqTmZKa-bidCumRqa1Nr_zU0NqCoHggxPE-utVS7vPbu8-1 KtmseUQcffKPMBzUgS422xg1OvjPxclclmY7dkVpsFcvsnIWe3ZBIcAZR4TtzJaJbmJJOs-aMQzX 7u7MhO8&sig=AHIEtbT5mC9lPBIFAD-NKvUDlwf5_1MSLQ As far as forcing States to do things.... 10th Amendment of the Constitution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constituti on Forced participation (like with Obamacare)- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constituti on#Forced_participation_or_commandeering In United States v. Lopez 514 U.S. 549 (1995), a federal law mandating a "gun-free zone" on and around public school campuses was struck down because, the Supreme Court ruled, there was no clause in the Constitution authorizing it. This was the first modern Supreme Court opinion to limit the government's power under the Commerce Clause. The opinion did not mention the Tenth Amendment, and the Court's 1985 Garcia opinion remains the controlling authority on that subject. In 1997, the Court again ruled that the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act violated the Tenth Amendment (Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997)). The act required state and local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on persons attempting to purchase handguns. Justice Scalia, writing for the majority, applied New York v. United States to show that the law violated the Tenth Amendment. Since the act "forced participation of the State's executive in the actual administration of a federal program," it was unconstitutional (kind of like what will happen in the next few years, where Obamacare is trying to force the States to participate in their unfunded Medicaid changes and even worse, forcing individual citizens to buy a product for the first time ever!!! This has never been attempted before!!!) (END SNIPS and LV's annotations.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Lenny, It is more true than you probably would like to think. Where do your fish ultimately come from? Maybe a fish farm in Florida? Singapore? Brazil? Sure, some of the fish may be raised and sold in the state, but the truth is that most fish in most states come from other states or countries. Congress could step in and create legislation covering that commerce. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Eric, That simply isn't true. For consumers buying from their local store, there is no interstate commerce involved. Now, for folks buying off of out-of-state websites or for stores that buy from out of State or out of the country, those could possibly be considered interstate commerce but NOT the transaction between the consumer and the store. Even buying car insurance from national companies, even over their websites, doesn't equal interstate commerce and it's why ALL insurance companies are regulated by the various States where they do business. Don't let this latest violation of the Constitution make you think that the Feds can regulate everything. Just because they believe they can, doesn't mean it's correct. You know how you can tell when a politician is lying... right??? Their lips are moving. That holds true for ALL politicians, not just left, right or undecided's. The Courts are constantly overturning legislation passed by Congress and State legislations all the time... because they aren't right all the time... and this latest attempt to thwart the Constitution will also be overturned by the Courts... if not by the voters even sooner. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Harry.no kidding. Lenny.That is incorrect since the sales of most pets involve interstate commerce, Congress is well within its constitutional purview. If they don't have computers to print it out at the store (sounds like a bad business decision these days), they could always go to the local Kinkos or other print shop or even local library if they are that far out in BFE and print out what they need for the shop (if they are that far out, they probably won't need many anyhow). I would also bet that for the mom and pop store, they may know their suppliers on a bit more personal level that say something like PetCo and they can ask the supplier to bring in a few sheets on whatever animals they bring in and keep a copy on hand so they can go out and make copies as needed. Private sector would end up getting greedy and charge for access since I don't think that advertising would generate enough revenue.I doubt this would have the eyeballs of something like Google or yahoo, so that is not always the answer. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation.... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians... and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC. <http://www.PIJAC.org> org or http://www.naiaonli <http://www.naiaonline.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm> ne.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47577	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

SHHH -- Don't make a wave < g > -- Don't go giving the Feds any ideas to put an excise tax on our fish. All taxes aside though, the fact remains that unless those fish being sold by your local retailer are being raised in Louisiana, they are obviously crossing state lines when flown in from Florida fish farms if for example they are bought there. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47578	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

Lenny, There are a number of ways this could become regulated by the Feds, and, probably, most would pass constitutional challenges. Don't rule out a use of the endangered species act in the overall scenarios you might wish to consider. After all, it was used to declare a growing population of polar bears as a threatened species. The population is still growing, after a growth of 40% in the population over the last 20 years. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Most of my fish come from a local retailer. The Feds aren't involved in that transaction in any way what so ever. Don't you think there would be a Federal Sales Tax or Excise tax on EVERY thing if they could do it without a MAJOR legislative change and Constitutional challenge... like what is currently happening? They do have federal "excise" taxes on some other products like gasoline/diesel fuel, phone service, car/truck tires, etc., as those products are truly involved in interstate commerce. Interstate Commerce legislation would/could affect the transportation between the retailer and an out-of-state distributor, when it is *interstate* (across state lines) commerce, BUT not between the retailer and the consumer, when it's within the same State. The States still regulate and taxes those transactions. Nearly every product we buy as consumers come from somewhere else, yet the Feds do not have dominion over the regulation of their commerce when between the retailer and the consumer.... only concerning their importation and transportation across State lines. For example, concerning prescription drugs, which we know are heavily regulated by the Feds, yet each State has legislation concerning the dispensing and sale of them and State Boards licenses the Pharmacists and Pharmacies that dispense and sell them to consumers. I realize the FDA is also intimately involved in the legislation of many products and the labeling of them, but our pets wouldn't fall under that kind of legislation... as it mainly affects the labeling of foods for human consumption. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition_Labeling_and_Education_Act (of 1990 controlled by the FDA) Electronic Prescribing laws - State by State - http://tinyurl.com/yghowo9 FOR http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:d5dh0MVCQ3EJ:www.nationalerx.com/m edia/docs/Leg_fact_sheet.pdf+prescription+drug+fact+sheet+legislation&hl=en& gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj9FiUqTmZKa-bidCumRqa1Nr_zU0NqCoHggxPE-utVS7vPbu8-1 KtmseUQcffKPMBzUgS422xg1OvjPxclclmY7dkVpsFcvsnIWe3ZBIcAZR4TtzJaJbmJJOs-aMQzX 7u7MhO8&sig=AHIEtbT5mC9lPBIFAD-NKvUDlwf5_1MSLQ As far as forcing States to do things.... 10th Amendment of the Constitution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constituti on Forced participation (like with Obamacare)- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constituti on#Forced_participation_or_commandeering In United States v. Lopez 514 U.S. 549 (1995), a federal law mandating a "gun-free zone" on and around public school campuses was struck down because, the Supreme Court ruled, there was no clause in the Constitution authorizing it. This was the first modern Supreme Court opinion to limit the government's power under the Commerce Clause. The opinion did not mention the Tenth Amendment, and the Court's 1985 Garcia opinion remains the controlling authority on that subject. In 1997, the Court again ruled that the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act violated the Tenth Amendment (Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997)). The act required state and local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on persons attempting to purchase handguns. Justice Scalia, writing for the majority, applied New York v. United States to show that the law violated the Tenth Amendment. Since the act "forced participation of the State's executive in the actual administration of a federal program," it was unconstitutional (kind of like what will happen in the next few years, where Obamacare is trying to force the States to participate in their unfunded Medicaid changes and even worse, forcing individual citizens to buy a product for the first time ever!!! This has never been attempted before!!!) (END SNIPS and LV's annotations.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Lenny, It is more true than you probably would like to think. Where do your fish ultimately come from? Maybe a fish farm in Florida? Singapore? Brazil? Sure, some of the fish may be raised and sold in the state, but the truth is that most fish in most states come from other states or countries. Congress could step in and create legislation covering that commerce. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Eric, That simply isn't true. For consumers buying from their local store, there is no interstate commerce involved. Now, for folks buying off of out-of-state websites or for stores that buy from out of State or out of the country, those could possibly be considered interstate commerce but NOT the transaction between the consumer and the store. Even buying car insurance from national companies, even over their websites, doesn't equal interstate commerce and it's why ALL insurance companies are regulated by the various States where they do business. Don't let this latest violation of the Constitution make you think that the Feds can regulate everything. Just because they believe they can, doesn't mean it's correct. You know how you can tell when a politician is lying... right??? Their lips are moving. That holds true for ALL politicians, not just left, right or undecided's. The Courts are constantly overturning legislation passed by Congress and State legislations all the time... because they aren't right all the time... and this latest attempt to thwart the Constitution will also be overturned by the Courts... if not by the voters even sooner. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Harry.no kidding. Lenny.That is incorrect since the sales of most pets involve interstate commerce, Congress is well within its constitutional purview. If they don't have computers to print it out at the store (sounds like a bad business decision these days), they could always go to the local Kinkos or other print shop or even local library if they are that far out in BFE and print out what they need for the shop (if they are that far out, they probably won't need many anyhow). I would also bet that for the mom and pop store, they may know their suppliers on a bit more personal level that say something like PetCo and they can ask the supplier to bring in a few sheets on whatever animals they bring in and keep a copy on hand so they can go out and make copies as needed. Private sector would end up getting greedy and charge for access since I don't think that advertising would generate enough revenue.I doubt this would have the eyeballs of something like Google or yahoo, so that is not always the answer. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation.... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians... and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC. <http://www.PIJAC.org> org or http://www.naiaonli <http://www.naiaonline.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm> ne.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47579	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

Yes, they could and do it with the importation of endangered species and exotics but it's still the States that regulate the sale of pets. The last time I looked, not many consumers were buying polar bears. Of course, the last time the progressives in Congress tried massive regulation concerning the importation of non-endangered and non-exotic pets, with H.R. 669, they haven't been very successful. But even that tabled but still pending legislation isn't controlling and/or regulating what happens between a local merchant and the consumer... only the importation and interstate transportation of these species. When it comes to the actual merchants and consumers, it's the States that are vested with the power to pass regulations concerning those intrastate transactions. It's a shame so many Americans are just ready to roll over and let Congress micro-manage their lives. NOT ME!!! What's that line from that oldie but goodie... "You can't even run your own life (house), I'll be damned if you run miiiinnnnnneeeee!" Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Lenny, There are a number of ways this could become regulated by the Feds, and, probably, most would pass constitutional challenges. Don't rule out a use of the endangered species act in the overall scenarios you might wish to consider. After all, it was used to declare a growing population of polar bears as a threatened species. The population is still growing, after a growth of 40% in the population over the last 20 years. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Most of my fish come from a local retailer. The Feds aren't involved in that transaction in any way what so ever. Don't you think there would be a Federal Sales Tax or Excise tax on EVERY thing if they could do it without a MAJOR legislative change and Constitutional challenge... like what is currently happening? They do have federal "excise" taxes on some other products like gasoline/diesel fuel, phone service, car/truck tires, etc., as those products are truly involved in interstate commerce. Interstate Commerce legislation would/could affect the transportation between the retailer and an out-of-state distributor, when it is *interstate* (across state lines) commerce, BUT not between the retailer and the consumer, when it's within the same State. The States still regulate and taxes those transactions. Nearly every product we buy as consumers come from somewhere else, yet the Feds do not have dominion over the regulation of their commerce when between the retailer and the consumer.... only concerning their importation and transportation across State lines. For example, concerning prescription drugs, which we know are heavily regulated by the Feds, yet each State has legislation concerning the dispensing and sale of them and State Boards licenses the Pharmacists and Pharmacies that dispense and sell them to consumers. I realize the FDA is also intimately involved in the legislation of many products and the labeling of them, but our pets wouldn't fall under that kind of legislation... as it mainly affects the labeling of foods for human consumption. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition_Labeling_and_Education_Act (of 1990 controlled by the FDA) Electronic Prescribing laws - State by State - http://tinyurl.com/yghowo9 FOR http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:d5dh0MVCQ3EJ:www.nationalerx.com/m edia/docs/Leg_fact_sheet.pdf+prescription+drug+fact+sheet+legislation&hl=en& gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj9FiUqTmZKa-bidCumRqa1Nr_zU0NqCoHggxPE-utVS7vPbu8-1 KtmseUQcffKPMBzUgS422xg1OvjPxclclmY7dkVpsFcvsnIWe3ZBIcAZR4TtzJaJbmJJOs-aMQzX 7u7MhO8&sig=AHIEtbT5mC9lPBIFAD-NKvUDlwf5_1MSLQ As far as forcing States to do things.... 10th Amendment of the Constitution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constituti on Forced participation (like with Obamacare)- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constituti on#Forced_participation_or_commandeering In United States v. Lopez 514 U.S. 549 (1995), a federal law mandating a "gun-free zone" on and around public school campuses was struck down because, the Supreme Court ruled, there was no clause in the Constitution authorizing it. This was the first modern Supreme Court opinion to limit the government's power under the Commerce Clause. The opinion did not mention the Tenth Amendment, and the Court's 1985 Garcia opinion remains the controlling authority on that subject. In 1997, the Court again ruled that the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act violated the Tenth Amendment (Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997)). The act required state and local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on persons attempting to purchase handguns. Justice Scalia, writing for the majority, applied New York v. United States to show that the law violated the Tenth Amendment. Since the act "forced participation of the State's executive in the actual administration of a federal program," it was unconstitutional (kind of like what will happen in the next few years, where Obamacare is trying to force the States to participate in their unfunded Medicaid changes and even worse, forcing individual citizens to buy a product for the first time ever!!! This has never been attempted before!!!) (END SNIPS and LV's annotations.. lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Lenny, It is more true than you probably would like to think. Where do your fish ultimately come from? Maybe a fish farm in Florida? Singapore? Brazil? Sure, some of the fish may be raised and sold in the state, but the truth is that most fish in most states come from other states or countries. Congress could step in and create legislation covering that commerce. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Eric, That simply isn't true. For consumers buying from their local store, there is no interstate commerce involved. Now, for folks buying off of out-of-state websites or for stores that buy from out of State or out of the country, those could possibly be considered interstate commerce but NOT the transaction between the consumer and the store. Even buying car insurance from national companies, even over their websites, doesn't equal interstate commerce and it's why ALL insurance companies are regulated by the various States where they do business. Don't let this latest violation of the Constitution make you think that the Feds can regulate everything. Just because they believe they can, doesn't mean it's correct. You know how you can tell when a politician is lying... right??? Their lips are moving. That holds true for ALL politicians, not just left, right or undecided's. The Courts are constantly overturning legislation passed by Congress and State legislations all the time... because they aren't right all the time... and this latest attempt to thwart the Constitution will also be overturned by the Courts... if not by the voters even sooner. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Harry.no kidding. Lenny.That is incorrect since the sales of most pets involve interstate commerce, Congress is well within its constitutional purview. If they don't have computers to print it out at the store (sounds like a bad business decision these days), they could always go to the local Kinkos or other print shop or even local library if they are that far out in BFE and print out what they need for the shop (if they are that far out, they probably won't need many anyhow). I would also bet that for the mom and pop store, they may know their suppliers on a bit more personal level that say something like PetCo and they can ask the supplier to bring in a few sheets on whatever animals they bring in and keep a copy on hand so they can go out and make copies as needed. Private sector would end up getting greedy and charge for access since I don't think that advertising would generate enough revenue.I doubt this would have the eyeballs of something like Google or yahoo, so that is not always the answer. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation.... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians... and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC. <http://www.PIJAC.org> org or http://www.naiaonli <http://www.naiaonline.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm> ne.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47580	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/26/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

See my other answers... and below. The Feds can and do regulate the importation and intERstate transportation and commerce already... but they DON'T get involved in the transaction between the merchant and the consumer in an intRAstate transaction. That is regulated by the individual States... it's called State's Rights. And although many States have not contested Federal overstepping of State's Rights in the past, because so many State politicians are mostly spineless little wimps (Oh yeah.... see the joke I emailed some people on my joke list about politicians.. lol) More and more State's have been fighting un-Constitutional Federal intrusion into State's Rights lately because of the VERY LOUD voice of their constituents... and even more so in the past year, under the current socialist leaning administration. The last paragraph below concerns "IntRAstate Commerce" and what States are doing about that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constituti on#State_Sovereignty_Resolutions_and_Nullification_Acts The http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/, an organization seeking to promote the concept of state sovereignty, has gathered information on various actions taken by state legislatures in protest to current federal actions. The actions involve issues on both the conservative and liberal ends of the political spectrum. State Sovereignty Resolutions ("10th Amendment Resolutions") - During 2009, "state sovereignty resolutions" or "10th Amendment Resolutions" were introduced in the legislatures of 37 states; in seven states the resolutions passed (Alaska, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Tennessee). As of March 2010[update], resolutions were introduced into the legislatures of 19 states; the resolution has passed in four states (Alabama, South Carolina, Utah, and Wyoming).[3] State Sovereignty Bills ("10th Amendment Bills") - As of March 2010[update], in four states (Georgia, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, and Oklahoma) Tenth Amendment supporters have introduced "State Sovereignty Bills" (one step beyond the Resolution stage discussed above), which would mandate action against what the state legislature perceives as unconstitutional federal legislation; none have made it past the introductory stage.[4] Firearms Freedom Act Legislation and Federal Gun Laws Nullification - As of March 2010[update], resolutions have been introduced in the legislatures of 26 states that would "declare[] that any firearms made and retained in-state are beyond the authority of Congress under its constitutional power to regulate commerce among the states". During 2009 the legislation passed in Montana and Tennessee and during 2010 the legislation passed in South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming.[5] South Carolina has taken the issue one step further: in 2010 a bill was introduced which would effectively nullify all gun registration laws within the state.[6] Medical Marijuana Laws - As of March 2010[update], 14 states (Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington) have passed legislation which permit the use of medicinal marijuana.[7] California has a proposed November 2010 constitutional amendment which would go one step further, and legalize marijuana use by persons over age 21 for any purpose whatsoever.[8] The Obama Administration announced in October 2009 that it advised federal prosecutors not to target medicinal marijuana users, or their suppliers, in states that have passed such laws.[9] REAL ID Act - As of March 2010[update], 25 states (beginning with Maine in 2007) have passed legislation and/or resolutions which opposed this legislation. Though the legislation is still on the books, its implementation has been delayed on several occasions and is currently not being enforced.[10] National Health Care Nullification - As of March 2010[update], 30 states have introduced legislation which would declare certain provisions of any proposed national health care bill to be null and void within the state; the legislation passed in Arizona, Idaho, Utah, and Virginia.[11] Such provisions include mandatory participation in such a system as well as preserving the right of a patient to pay a health care professional for treatment (and for the professional to accept it) outside of a single-payer system. Arizona's legislation passed as a proposed constitutional amendment, to be submitted to the voters in 2010.[12] On February 1, 2010, the Virginia Senate took a stand against a key provision of a proposed federal health care overhaul, passing legislation declaring that Virginia residents cannot be forced to buy health insurance. On March 17, 2010, the Governor of Idaho signed a bill requiring the Attorney General to sue the Federal Government if Idaho residents are required to buy health insurance.[13] "Bring the Guard Home" - As of March 2010[update], seven states have introduced legislation which would permit the Governor of the state to recall any National Guard troops from overseas deployments (such as in Iraq and Afghanistan); the bills failed in Maryland and New Mexico.[14] Constitutional Tender - As of March 2010[update], seven states have introduced legislation which would seek to nullify federal legal tender laws in the state by authorizing payment in gold and silver or a paper note backed 100% by gold or silver; the legislation failed in Colorado and Montana.[15] "Cap-and-trade" Nullification - As of March 2010[update], four states have introduced legislation which would nullify any proposed federal emissions regulation under the "cap and trade" model); none have advanced beyond the introductory stage.[16] State Sovereignty and Federal Tax Funds Acts - As of March 2010[update], three states have introduced legislation which would require businesses (and in some cases, individuals) to remit their Federal tax payments to the state Treasurer (or equivalent body) for deposit into an escrow fund. If the state Legislature determined that a portion of the federal budget was not constitutional, or if the federal government imposed penalties or sanctions upon the state for creating the fund, then the money would be withheld.) None have advanced beyond the introductory stage[17] "Sheriffs First" Legislation - As of March 2010[update], three states have introduced legislation which would make it a crime for any federal agent to make an arrest, search, or seizure within the state without getting the advanced, written permission of the sheriff of the county in which the event would take place); none have advanced beyond the introductory stage.[18] "Federal Land" Legislation - As of February 2010[update], Utah has introduced legislation to allow the use of Eminent domain on federal land. Rep. Christopher Herrod has introduced the bill in a state where the Federal Government controls over 60% of the land. The effort has the full support of Republican Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, who would have to defend the law. The proposal includes setting aside $3 million for legal defense.[19] "Nullification of Federal Intrastate Commerce Regulation" - As of March 2010[update], four states have introduced legislation which would nullify federal regulation of commerce and activities which are solely within the boundaries of a state and which do not cross state lines. The Virginia legislation has passed one house.[20] Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again SHHH -- Don't make a wave < g > -- Don't go giving the Feds any ideas to put an excise tax on our fish. All taxes aside though, the fact remains that unless those fish being sold by your local retailer are being raised in Louisiana, they are obviously crossing state lines when flown in from Florida fish farms if for example they are bought there. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47581	From: Noura	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: The Tetra War

Hi, I have two white skirt Tetras, one older and bigger than the other, since I bought the younger one 8 months ago, there hasn't been any kind of problem between them, they weren't "schooling" togeather though, neither did I notice spawning "spectacles". About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the big one's belly is getting bigger without any signs of illness or stress, I don't know if it's a female holding eggs? Two weeks later, the smaller Tetra started to harass the bigger one constantly, causing torn ventral fin, it chases it around whenever they came across eachother in the 20 g community tank. Do you have any idea what's going on? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47582	From: Noura	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)

My hose is a clear 1/2" hose, I try to empty it everytime I finish using it, but there are always water remains and it sits in the west balkony all the time, so I'll make sure to run some water in before filling the tanks. Another question came across today as I was performing the PWCs. I attached the 10meter (about 30') hose to my gravel siphon (or python?), and didn't succeed to start the siphon by agitation. I had to start it with the short hose (3') first then attach the longer one, which caused a watery mess, did anyone face this problem? how did you solve it? Second question, I couldn't find a hose that fits well into the siphon tube itself, so I have to attach either a narrower or a wider one to the original 1meter hose. Which is better to get a stronger water current through a siphon hose: Get a slightly narrower or slightly wider hose to attach to the original siphon's hose? I noticed the current was weak when I attached the wider hose, and couldn't clean my gravel properly, so I don't know if it's a diameter problem. I need to know if buying a narrower hose would solve the problem. Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47583	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)

The python uses water pressure from the faucet to start the siphon. If you don't have a python.you basically just have a siphon and have to use the usual methods, suction or submerge/fill the entire hose in your tank, keeping one end underwater in the tank, put your finger over the other end and transfer to a lower bucket or drainage area. The python uses plumbing water pressure to start the siphon for vacuuming and pump the water back for refilling. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner) My hose is a clear 1/2" hose, I try to empty it everytime I finish using it, but there are always water remains and it sits in the west balkony all the time, so I'll make sure to run some water in before filling the tanks. Another question came across today as I was performing the PWCs. I attached the 10meter (about 30') hose to my gravel siphon (or python?), and didn't succeed to start the siphon by agitation. I had to start it with the short hose (3') first then attach the longer one, which caused a watery mess, did anyone face this problem? how did you solve it? Second question, I couldn't find a hose that fits well into the siphon tube itself, so I have to attach either a narrower or a wider one to the original 1meter hose. Which is better to get a stronger water current through a siphon hose: Get a slightly narrower or slightly wider hose to attach to the original siphon's hose? I noticed the current was weak when I attached the wider hose, and couldn't clean my gravel properly, so I don't know if it's a diameter problem. I need to know if buying a narrower hose would solve the problem. Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47584	From: harry perry	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: OT/Lenny/again/polar bears ?????

After all, it was used to declare a growing population of polar bears as a threatened species. The population is still growing, after a growth of 40% in the population over the last 20 years. According to the Al Gore fans polar bears are dieing off because of global warming. Someone lied.....how can that be. Harry From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 1:39 AM   Lenny, There are a number of ways this could become regulated by the Feds, and, probably, most would pass constitutional challenges. Don't rule out a use of the endangered species act in the overall scenarios you might wish to consider. After all, it was used to declare a growing population of polar bears as a threatened species. The population is still growing, after a growth of 40% in the population over the last 20 years. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:05 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Most of my fish come from a local retailer. The Feds aren't involved in that transaction in any way what so ever. Don't you think there would be a Federal Sales Tax or Excise tax on EVERY thing if they could do it without a MAJOR legislative change and Constitutional challenge... like what is currently happening? They do have federal "excise" taxes on some other products like gasoline/diesel fuel, phone service, car/truck tires, etc., as those products are truly involved in interstate commerce. Interstate Commerce legislation would/could affect the transportation between the retailer and an out-of-state distributor, when it is *interstate* (across state lines) commerce, BUT not between the retailer and the consumer, when it's within the same State. The States still regulate and taxes those transactions. Nearly every product we buy as consumers come from somewhere else, yet the Feds do not have dominion over the regulation of their commerce when between the retailer and the consumer.... only concerning their importation and transportation across State lines. For example, concerning prescription drugs, which we know are heavily regulated by the Feds, yet each State has legislation concerning the dispensing and sale of them and State Boards licenses the Pharmacists and Pharmacies that dispense and sell them to consumers. I realize the FDA is also intimately involved in the legislation of many products and the labeling of them, but our pets wouldn't fall under that kind of legislation. .. as it mainly affects the labeling of foods for human consumption. http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Nutrition_ Labeling_ and_Education_ Act (of 1990 controlled by the FDA) Electronic Prescribing laws - State by State - http://tinyurl. com/yghowo9 FOR http://docs. google.com/ viewer?a= v&q=cache: d5dh0MVCQ3EJ: www.nationalerx. com/m edia/docs/Leg_ fact_sheet. pdf+prescription +drug+fact+ sheet+legislatio n&hl=en& gl=us&pid=bl& srcid=ADGEESj9Fi UqTmZKa-bidCumRq a1Nr_zU0NqCoHggx PE-utVS7vPbu8- 1 KtmseUQcffKPMBzUgS4 22xg1OvjPxclclmY 7dkVpsFcvsnIWe3Z BIcAZR4TtzJaJbmJ JOs-aMQzX 7u7MhO8&sig= AHIEtbT5mC9lPBIF AD-NKvUDlwf5_ 1MSLQ As far as forcing States to do things.... 10th Amendment of the Constitution - http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tenth_Amendment_ to_the_United_ States_Constitut i on Forced participation (like with Obamacare)- http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tenth_Amendment_ to_the_United_ States_Constitut i on#Forced_participa tion_or_commande ering In United States v. Lopez 514 U.S. 549 (1995), a federal law mandating a "gun-free zone" on and around public school campuses was struck down because, the Supreme Court ruled, there was no clause in the Constitution authorizing it. This was the first modern Supreme Court opinion to limit the government's power under the Commerce Clause. The opinion did not mention the Tenth Amendment, and the Court's 1985 Garcia opinion remains the controlling authority on that subject. In 1997, the Court again ruled that the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act violated the Tenth Amendment (Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997)). The act required state and local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on persons attempting to purchase handguns. Justice Scalia, writing for the majority, applied New York v. United States to show that the law violated the Tenth Amendment. Since the act "forced participation of the State's executive in the actual administration of a federal program," it was unconstitutional (kind of like what will happen in the next few years, where Obamacare is trying to force the States to participate in their unfunded Medicaid changes and even worse, forcing individual citizens to buy a product for the first time ever!!! This has never been attempted before!!!) (END SNIPS and LV's annotations. . lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Lenny, It is more true than you probably would like to think. Where do your fish ultimately come from? Maybe a fish farm in Florida? Singapore? Brazil? Sure, some of the fish may be raised and sold in the state, but the truth is that most fish in most states come from other states or countries. Congress could step in and create legislation covering that commerce. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Eric, That simply isn't true. For consumers buying from their local store, there is no interstate commerce involved. Now, for folks buying off of out-of-state websites or for stores that buy from out of State or out of the country, those could possibly be considered interstate commerce but NOT the transaction between the consumer and the store. Even buying car insurance from national companies, even over their websites, doesn't equal interstate commerce and it's why ALL insurance companies are regulated by the various States where they do business. Don't let this latest violation of the Constitution make you think that the Feds can regulate everything. Just because they believe they can, doesn't mean it's correct. You know how you can tell when a politician is lying... right??? Their lips are moving. That holds true for ALL politicians, not just left, right or undecided's. The Courts are constantly overturning legislation passed by Congress and State legislations all the time... because they aren't right all the time... and this latest attempt to thwart the Constitution will also be overturned by the Courts... if not by the voters even sooner. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Harry.no kidding. Lenny.That is incorrect since the sales of most pets involve interstate commerce, Congress is well within its constitutional purview. If they don't have computers to print it out at the store (sounds like a bad business decision these days), they could always go to the local Kinkos or other print shop or even local library if they are that far out in BFE and print out what they need for the shop (if they are that far out, they probably won't need many anyhow). I would also bet that for the mom and pop store, they may know their suppliers on a bit more personal level that say something like PetCo and they can ask the supplier to bring in a few sheets on whatever animals they bring in and keep a copy on hand so they can go out and make copies as needed. Private sector would end up getting greedy and charge for access since I don't think that advertising would generate enough revenue.I doubt this would have the eyeballs of something like Google or yahoo, so that is not always the answer. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation. ... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians. .. and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC. <http://www.PIJAC. org> org or http://www.naiaonli <http://www.naiaonli ne.org/issues/ RX_for_Healthy_ Pets.htm> ne.org/issues/ RX_for_Healthy_ Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47585	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again

The AR does not care what you do. Either it will not be enough or it will not be the right thing to do. Worst thing you can do is to try to appease an AR, individual or group. The plain and simple of it is that they need to be defeated and defeated soundly. The RICO lawsuit recently filed against HSUS, et al. may go a long way toward this end. You can read a press release about it here: http://humanewatch.org/index.php/site/post/press_release_racketeering_lawsui t_fingers_humane_society_of_the_unite/ http://tinyurl.com/yed2sp2 and then follow the links for more information on this lawsuit. Briefly, here is an abbreviated history leading to the filing. Feld Entertainment (owner of Ringling Bros Barnum & Bailey Circus) was charged with abuse of animals in the circus--in particular, elephants. This suit was filed by The Fund for Animals, and several other AR groups, including the ASPCA. This original suit was dismissed. The suit was filed again, and 9 years after the original filing the suit was dismissed again, with the judge finding that the lead witness was not a credible witness, and had been paid by these groups to act as a witness and plaintiff. During this 9 year period, HSUS became the corporate owner of The Fund for Animals through a merger. Shortly after the dismissal of the suit in December, 2009, Feld filed the RICO suit naming * The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS); * The Fund for Animals (which merged with HSUS in 2004); * Jonathan Lovvorn, an attorney employed by HSUS; * Kimberly Ockene, an attorney employed by HSUS; * The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA); * The Animal Welfare Institute; * The Animal Protection Institute (d/b/a/ Born Free USA); * Tom Rider (a discredited witness in a recently dismissed lawsuit against Feld, who a judge ruled was paid at least $190,000 for his testimony); * Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal (the outside law firm which handled that lawsuit against Feld); * Katherine Meyer (of Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal); * Eric Glitzenstein (of Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal); * Howard Crystal (of Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal); and * The Wildlife Advocacy Project (a nonprofit organization founded and managed by Meyer Glitzenstein & Crystal, which was used as a pass-through vehicle to allow animal rights groups to pay Tom Rider for his discredited testimony against Feld). as defendants. The central claim in the lawsuit filed by Feld is "[D]efendants have perpetrated and continue to perpetrate multiple schemes to permanently ban Asian elephants in circuses, to defraud FEI of money and property and/or to unjustly enrich themselves, with the ultimate objective of banning Asian elephants in all forms of entertainment and captivity. To carry out these schemes, defendants conspired to conduct and conducted the Enterprise through a pattern of, among other things, bribery and illegal gratuity payments (in violation of both state and federal law), obstruction of justice, mail fraud, wire fraud and money laundering." This suit is likely to take some time to adjudicate, so you will need to stay tuned for further events as the suit wends its way through the legal system. A win by Feld will put a serious dent in the bank accounts of those names in the suit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 6:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation.... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians... and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC.org or http://www.naiaonline.org/issues/RX_for_Healthy_Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a  hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47586	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: OT/Lenny/again/polar bears ?????

Harry, The actual claim was that due to global warming the Arctic ice is melting, and will continue to do so for quite some time, leading to an ice free Arctic during the summer (2030 was the date bandied about). The lack of ice will lead to the demise of the polar bear because they will no longer be able hunt without the ice. Since that ruling, a. the polar bear population continues to increase, and will, perhaps increase more rapidly without any hunt allowed, and, b. the ice is no longer expected to disappear, and, in fact, is showing more coverage in the summer than it has in a few years. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT/Lenny/again/polar bears ????? After all, it was used to declare a growing population of polar bears as a threatened species. The population is still growing, after a growth of 40% in the population over the last 20 years. According to the Al Gore fans polar bears are dieing off because of global warming. Someone lied.....how can that be. Harry From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 1:39 AM Lenny, There are a number of ways this could become regulated by the Feds, and, probably, most would pass constitutional challenges. Don't rule out a use of the endangered species act in the overall scenarios you might wish to consider. After all, it was used to declare a growing population of polar bears as a threatened species. The population is still growing, after a growth of 40% in the population over the last 20 years. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:05 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Most of my fish come from a local retailer. The Feds aren't involved in that transaction in any way what so ever. Don't you think there would be a Federal Sales Tax or Excise tax on EVERY thing if they could do it without a MAJOR legislative change and Constitutional challenge... like what is currently happening? They do have federal "excise" taxes on some other products like gasoline/diesel fuel, phone service, car/truck tires, etc., as those products are truly involved in interstate commerce. Interstate Commerce legislation would/could affect the transportation between the retailer and an out-of-state distributor, when it is *interstate* (across state lines) commerce, BUT not between the retailer and the consumer, when it's within the same State. The States still regulate and taxes those transactions. Nearly every product we buy as consumers come from somewhere else, yet the Feds do not have dominion over the regulation of their commerce when between the retailer and the consumer.... only concerning their importation and transportation across State lines. For example, concerning prescription drugs, which we know are heavily regulated by the Feds, yet each State has legislation concerning the dispensing and sale of them and State Boards licenses the Pharmacists and Pharmacies that dispense and sell them to consumers. I realize the FDA is also intimately involved in the legislation of many products and the labeling of them, but our pets wouldn't fall under that kind of legislation. .. as it mainly affects the labeling of foods for human consumption. http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Nutrition_ Labeling_ and_Education_ Act (of 1990 controlled by the FDA) Electronic Prescribing laws - State by State - http://tinyurl. com/yghowo9 FOR http://docs. google.com/ viewer?a= v&q=cache: d5dh0MVCQ3EJ: www.nationalerx. com/m edia/docs/Leg_ fact_sheet. pdf+prescription +drug+fact+ sheet+legislatio n&hl=en& gl=us&pid=bl& srcid=ADGEESj9Fi UqTmZKa-bidCumRq a1Nr_zU0NqCoHggx PE-utVS7vPbu8- 1 KtmseUQcffKPMBzUgS4 22xg1OvjPxclclmY 7dkVpsFcvsnIWe3Z BIcAZR4TtzJaJbmJ JOs-aMQzX 7u7MhO8&sig= AHIEtbT5mC9lPBIF AD-NKvUDlwf5_ 1MSLQ As far as forcing States to do things.... 10th Amendment of the Constitution - http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tenth_Amendment_ to_the_United_ States_Constitut i on Forced participation (like with Obamacare)- http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tenth_Amendment_ to_the_United_ States_Constitut i on#Forced_participa tion_or_commande ering In United States v. Lopez 514 U.S. 549 (1995), a federal law mandating a "gun-free zone" on and around public school campuses was struck down because, the Supreme Court ruled, there was no clause in the Constitution authorizing it. This was the first modern Supreme Court opinion to limit the government's power under the Commerce Clause. The opinion did not mention the Tenth Amendment, and the Court's 1985 Garcia opinion remains the controlling authority on that subject. In 1997, the Court again ruled that the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act violated the Tenth Amendment (Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997)). The act required state and local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on persons attempting to purchase handguns. Justice Scalia, writing for the majority, applied New York v. United States to show that the law violated the Tenth Amendment. Since the act "forced participation of the State's executive in the actual administration of a federal program," it was unconstitutional (kind of like what will happen in the next few years, where Obamacare is trying to force the States to participate in their unfunded Medicaid changes and even worse, forcing individual citizens to buy a product for the first time ever!!! This has never been attempted before!!!) (END SNIPS and LV's annotations. . lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Lenny, It is more true than you probably would like to think. Where do your fish ultimately come from? Maybe a fish farm in Florida? Singapore? Brazil? Sure, some of the fish may be raised and sold in the state, but the truth is that most fish in most states come from other states or countries. Congress could step in and create legislation covering that commerce. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Eric, That simply isn't true. For consumers buying from their local store, there is no interstate commerce involved. Now, for folks buying off of out-of-state websites or for stores that buy from out of State or out of the country, those could possibly be considered interstate commerce but NOT the transaction between the consumer and the store. Even buying car insurance from national companies, even over their websites, doesn't equal interstate commerce and it's why ALL insurance companies are regulated by the various States where they do business. Don't let this latest violation of the Constitution make you think that the Feds can regulate everything. Just because they believe they can, doesn't mean it's correct. You know how you can tell when a politician is lying... right??? Their lips are moving. That holds true for ALL politicians, not just left, right or undecided's. The Courts are constantly overturning legislation passed by Congress and State legislations all the time... because they aren't right all the time... and this latest attempt to thwart the Constitution will also be overturned by the Courts... if not by the voters even sooner. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Harry.no kidding. Lenny.That is incorrect since the sales of most pets involve interstate commerce, Congress is well within its constitutional purview. If they don't have computers to print it out at the store (sounds like a bad business decision these days), they could always go to the local Kinkos or other print shop or even local library if they are that far out in BFE and print out what they need for the shop (if they are that far out, they probably won't need many anyhow). I would also bet that for the mom and pop store, they may know their suppliers on a bit more personal level that say something like PetCo and they can ask the supplier to bring in a few sheets on whatever animals they bring in and keep a copy on hand so they can go out and make copies as needed. Private sector would end up getting greedy and charge for access since I don't think that advertising would generate enough revenue.I doubt this would have the eyeballs of something like Google or yahoo, so that is not always the answer. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation. ... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians. .. and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC. <http://www.PIJAC. org> org or http://www.naiaonli <http://www.naiaonli ne.org/issues/ RX_for_Healthy_ Pets.htm> ne.org/issues/ RX_for_Healthy_ Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47587	From: jamesjoy000@att.net	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: microworm culture "fragrance" OK?

I know what wicked smell you are reffering to :) and I happen to like beer. I enclosed my culture in a box to keep the fumes down. but not sure whether you should start another now. joy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47588	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)

Donna explained the manual ways of starting a siphon, besides the one you already knew about... pumping the siphon tube up and down. I'm not sure why that didn't work for you. As long as the long hose was not kinked or blocked, it should have worked. The pumping method simply forces water from the large gravel vacuum tube into the smaller hose and once that water makes it up and over the top of your tank, it should continue the siphon as the water flows down towards the floor. Is the long hose down below the tank level? I think you said it's running to your sink but if your sink is the same height or close to the same height as your tank, then it's not going to work as well. This is why a Python is actually powered by the faucet water pump to create and keep the siphon effect going. I have a blog article about starting a siphon which has some videos to show the methods that Donna explained. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-to-start-your-gravel-siphon.html OR http://tinyurl.com/GL-Gravel-Siphon BTW, it's good that your hose is clear. That is more likely to be a potable water hose. Do you see any writing on it saying "Potable Water" or the Syrian language equivalent? As far as using a smaller diameter hose, that will slow down the water flow a LOT. Get a hose that fits over the nipple that sticks out of the top of your gravel vacuum tube and then you may have to use a hose clamp if it doesn't fit tight from the start. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner) My hose is a clear 1/2" hose, I try to empty it everytime I finish using it, but there are always water remains and it sits in the west balkony all the time, so I'll make sure to run some water in before filling the tanks. Another question came across today as I was performing the PWCs. I attached the 10meter (about 30') hose to my gravel siphon (or python?), and didn't succeed to start the siphon by agitation. I had to start it with the short hose (3') first then attach the longer one, which caused a watery mess, did anyone face this problem? how did you solve it? Second question, I couldn't find a hose that fits well into the siphon tube itself, so I have to attach either a narrower or a wider one to the original 1meter hose. Which is better to get a stronger water current through a siphon hose: Get a slightly narrower or slightly wider hose to attach to the original siphon's hose? I noticed the current was weak when I attached the wider hose, and couldn't clean my gravel properly, so I don't know if it's a diameter problem. I need to know if buying a narrower hose would solve the problem. Thanks Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47589	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: OT/Lenny/again/polar bears ?????

You already answered your question.... "Someone lied". While this is only supposed to be a *joke*, it's actually very true. "How can you tell when a politician is lying? Their lips are moving!" AlGore has made millions off of his lies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT/Lenny/again/polar bears ????? After all, it was used to declare a growing population of polar bears as a threatened species. The population is still growing, after a growth of 40% in the population over the last 20 years. According to the Al Gore fans polar bears are dieing off because of global warming. Someone lied.....how can that be. Harry From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/again To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 1:39 AM Lenny, There are a number of ways this could become regulated by the Feds, and, probably, most would pass constitutional challenges. Don't rule out a use of the endangered species act in the overall scenarios you might wish to consider. After all, it was used to declare a growing population of polar bears as a threatened species. The population is still growing, after a growth of 40% in the population over the last 20 years. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:05 AM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Most of my fish come from a local retailer. The Feds aren't involved in that transaction in any way what so ever. Don't you think there would be a Federal Sales Tax or Excise tax on EVERY thing if they could do it without a MAJOR legislative change and Constitutional challenge... like what is currently happening? They do have federal "excise" taxes on some other products like gasoline/diesel fuel, phone service, car/truck tires, etc., as those products are truly involved in interstate commerce. Interstate Commerce legislation would/could affect the transportation between the retailer and an out-of-state distributor, when it is *interstate* (across state lines) commerce, BUT not between the retailer and the consumer, when it's within the same State. The States still regulate and taxes those transactions. Nearly every product we buy as consumers come from somewhere else, yet the Feds do not have dominion over the regulation of their commerce when between the retailer and the consumer.... only concerning their importation and transportation across State lines. For example, concerning prescription drugs, which we know are heavily regulated by the Feds, yet each State has legislation concerning the dispensing and sale of them and State Boards licenses the Pharmacists and Pharmacies that dispense and sell them to consumers. I realize the FDA is also intimately involved in the legislation of many products and the labeling of them, but our pets wouldn't fall under that kind of legislation. .. as it mainly affects the labeling of foods for human consumption. http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Nutrition_ Labeling_ and_Education_ Act (of 1990 controlled by the FDA) Electronic Prescribing laws - State by State - http://tinyurl. com/yghowo9 FOR http://docs. google.com/ viewer?a= v&q=cache: d5dh0MVCQ3EJ: www.nationalerx. com/m edia/docs/Leg_ fact_sheet. pdf+prescription +drug+fact+ sheet+legislatio n&hl=en& gl=us&pid=bl& srcid=ADGEESj9Fi UqTmZKa-bidCumRq a1Nr_zU0NqCoHggx PE-utVS7vPbu8- 1 KtmseUQcffKPMBzUgS4 22xg1OvjPxclclmY 7dkVpsFcvsnIWe3Z BIcAZR4TtzJaJbmJ JOs-aMQzX 7u7MhO8&sig= AHIEtbT5mC9lPBIF AD-NKvUDlwf5_ 1MSLQ As far as forcing States to do things.... 10th Amendment of the Constitution - http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tenth_Amendment_ to_the_United_ States_Constitut i on Forced participation (like with Obamacare)- http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tenth_Amendment_ to_the_United_ States_Constitut i on#Forced_participa tion_or_commande ering In United States v. Lopez 514 U.S. 549 (1995), a federal law mandating a "gun-free zone" on and around public school campuses was struck down because, the Supreme Court ruled, there was no clause in the Constitution authorizing it. This was the first modern Supreme Court opinion to limit the government's power under the Commerce Clause. The opinion did not mention the Tenth Amendment, and the Court's 1985 Garcia opinion remains the controlling authority on that subject. In 1997, the Court again ruled that the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act violated the Tenth Amendment (Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997)). The act required state and local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on persons attempting to purchase handguns. Justice Scalia, writing for the majority, applied New York v. United States to show that the law violated the Tenth Amendment. Since the act "forced participation of the State's executive in the actual administration of a federal program," it was unconstitutional (kind of like what will happen in the next few years, where Obamacare is trying to force the States to participate in their unfunded Medicaid changes and even worse, forcing individual citizens to buy a product for the first time ever!!! This has never been attempted before!!!) (END SNIPS and LV's annotations. . lol) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:19 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Lenny, It is more true than you probably would like to think. Where do your fish ultimately come from? Maybe a fish farm in Florida? Singapore? Brazil? Sure, some of the fish may be raised and sold in the state, but the truth is that most fish in most states come from other states or countries. Congress could step in and create legislation covering that commerce. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:55 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Eric, That simply isn't true. For consumers buying from their local store, there is no interstate commerce involved. Now, for folks buying off of out-of-state websites or for stores that buy from out of State or out of the country, those could possibly be considered interstate commerce but NOT the transaction between the consumer and the store. Even buying car insurance from national companies, even over their websites, doesn't equal interstate commerce and it's why ALL insurance companies are regulated by the various States where they do business. Don't let this latest violation of the Constitution make you think that the Feds can regulate everything. Just because they believe they can, doesn't mean it's correct. You know how you can tell when a politician is lying... right??? Their lips are moving. That holds true for ALL politicians, not just left, right or undecided's. The Courts are constantly overturning legislation passed by Congress and State legislations all the time... because they aren't right all the time... and this latest attempt to thwart the Constitution will also be overturned by the Courts... if not by the voters even sooner. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Harry.no kidding. Lenny.That is incorrect since the sales of most pets involve interstate commerce, Congress is well within its constitutional purview. If they don't have computers to print it out at the store (sounds like a bad business decision these days), they could always go to the local Kinkos or other print shop or even local library if they are that far out in BFE and print out what they need for the shop (if they are that far out, they probably won't need many anyhow). I would also bet that for the mom and pop store, they may know their suppliers on a bit more personal level that say something like PetCo and they can ask the supplier to bring in a few sheets on whatever animals they bring in and keep a copy on hand so they can go out and make copies as needed. Private sector would end up getting greedy and charge for access since I don't think that advertising would generate enough revenue.I doubt this would have the eyeballs of something like Google or yahoo, so that is not always the answer. Eric _____ From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:28 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Well... personally, I'd prefer this to be done on a State by State basis or by the private sector. Washington DC has been violating the Constitution FAR TOO often lately and nothing in the Constitution allows them to regulate private pet ownership. If the Feds try to get involved, they'll almost certainly add a whole new level of bureaucracy and taxes to the legislation. ... and screw things up like they do with almost every thing else. The private sector could take care of this all by themselves and get ahead of the tax and spend politicians. .. and certainly do things MUCH BETTER, at a much lower cost, if any, as far as setting up the website and database of information and then the stores could just download the information, as needed, for the species they carry. The website could also be available to the public and even be supported by advertisers involved in the pet care and information industry. Maybe I need to forward this thread to http://www.PIJAC. <http://www.PIJAC. org> org or http://www.naiaonli <http://www.naiaonli ne.org/issues/ RX_for_Healthy_ Pets.htm> ne.org/issues/ RX_for_Healthy_ Pets.htm It would also be one less thing for the AR fanatics to complain about with us pet owners. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny/ again Actually your idea would add value to the pet store as a reliable supplier. Now all we have to do is stop congress from calling names and throwing bricks long enough to pass this law. Harry --- On Fri, 3/26/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. <mailto:GoldLenny% 40gmail.com> com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife %40yahoogroups. com> yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:48 PM It could be done automatically and maybe even printed out as part of their receipt. I know I sometimes get 2' long receipts for a single item purchase nowadays with everything from sweepstakes entries to online surveys to coupons for competitive products attached to my main receipt. Considering that most pet stores probably have a computerized POS (Point Of Sale) system, each pet species is probably coded so the cashier enters a code for the fish type so the store can keep track of inventory. IF... and that's a big IF... the person bagging the fish puts the right code on the bag, then the cashier will enters the code in order to ring up the fish on the computerized register so then the computer would automatically print out the info, either as a separate care sheet or just the basic care info and species name right on the receipt. If the customer gets home and the care sheet is WAY OFF, like walking the fish twice a day (LOL), they'll likely know they got the wrong info. Yes, mistakes can and will be made but as long as the correct info is accessible from the POS system, it should minimize P/T or even F/T employee human error. This is the same reason most stores scan UPC codes instead of relying on the cashiers to get things right all of the time. Last but not least, they could always tattoo on a UPC code on each fish and just scan it. JUST KIDDING! LOL And yes, I realize that with any computer information system, it will be subject to GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out) but at least customers will have a little more info and could know when to complain when they see obvious garbage printed on their receipt. Still, a computerized system idea seems like it would be far more reliable than some of the bad info that is often given out by ill-informed employees. They could include exemptions for mom and pop stores who do not have computers or those stores might have to pre-print out care sheets. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife @ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker/Lenny If the law covered all pets it would be great and probably needed but a nightmare for the pet store owner. Imagine selling a hundred different kinds of fish and the kids working for the pet store trying to get the care sheets right. "What do you mean I should take my fish for a walk twice a day?" "are you sure my guppy will get 4 feet long and sheds it's skin?. Could be interesting. Harry --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@gmail. com> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 11:41 PM OK. While some of the below article (below my sig) *might* be useful in the hands of a pet consumer (buyer, not eater.. lol), I'm wondering if this is something our lawmakers should be spending so much time on. BUT... if they are, it seems that it would be better that the law cover all pets so that the consumer has to sign that they understand the general and basic care of the pet they are about to buy... and that the stores would have to provide them with at least a single page care sheet with info such as links or books listed for more detailed care. I like the comparison to the printout that comes with prescription drugs. That wouldn't be too difficult to do for all pets. At least the buyer would have the scientific name and other pertinent information about their new pet. At least this Republican isn't trying to ban Iguana's, just make sure the buyer understands their care and how BIG they get. What do y'all think? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) http://www.nola. com/politics/ index.ssf/ 2010/03/north_ lousiana_ lawmaker_ wants .html OR http://tinyurl. com/yhwrjcf North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care By Ed Anderson, The Times-Picayune March 24, 2010, 3:20PM The day of the iguana may have finally arrived in Louisiana. Sen. B.L. "Buddy" Shaw, R-Shreveport, said today that he has filed Senate Bill 368 to require buyers of the lizard-like creatures to be better informed about the animal's care and feeding. Shaw's bill would requires iguana buyers to acknowledge in writing that the retailer who sold them the animal had informed them of three things: .Small iguanas "will grow substantially, " possibly to 4 feet and will be "more difficult to care for properly" than when bought. .Iguanas "can carry salmonella" that could infect the owners or others. .Instructions on the "primary care needed for the iguana," including food and an appropriate habitat. "It will be kind of like when you go to get your medication at the pharmacy" and get a printout saying how it should be taken and what the side effects might be, Shaw said. He said many buyers are not aware that a tiny iguana can grow, and when it does the owners may abandon the animal or not know how to raise it. He said he filed the bill for debate at the lawmaking session that opens Monday at the request of a constituent who rescues iguanas "from people who don't know how to raise them." Shaw said he spoke to Commissioner of Agriculture and Forestry Mike Strain about the bill and Strain is not opposed to it. Strain's office sometimes takes on lawmakers' bill that deal with animals. Shaw said the only cost of his bill would be the paperwork that the retailer would generate to inform the customer of the do's and don'ts of iguana-raising. "This is not an iguana-registration bill," he said.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47590	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War

Noura, By white skirt tetra, I presume you mean an albino variety of _Gymnocorymbus ternetzi_. I will proceed under that assumption. These fish can grow to about 3" SL. They should be kept in an odd numbered group to avoid problems of aggression between individual fish of the species (conspecifics) and/or toward other fish in the tank. Otherwise, they tend to be a peaceful fish. They do well in a wide range of pH, and as I recall, your pH is in the mid to upper 7 range, so you should be OK there. Temperature is not much of a concern to them either. It is near impossible to determine the sex of an individual fish since there is no sexual dimorphism. This places you at a disadvantage if you are hoping to breed the fish, but I doubt if the fish themselves have any problems discerning the difference. You say that the larger is beginning to "thicken" in the abdominal area, and the smaller is harassing the larger now. You wonder if this one may be filling with eggs, and it is a male harassing her. Unfortunately, I cannot say from the information on hand. What I would suggest is to separate the two fish, either with a divider in the current tank, or by moving the smaller to another tank on a temporary basis. Keep an eye on the larger one, but not obsessively so. You are looking for further development in the abdominal area. If the fish remains the same, it may be time to look at another cause. If there is more development, it may be eggs, and the two should be placed together again to look for further developments. If it is eggs, they will eventually be released. If the other fish is a male, then the eggs may even be fertilized. Since these fish are known as egg-scatterers, it is unlikely that you would see any fry from this situation, since you have other fish in the tank. Let us know how things progress, and, if it seems that this is not caused by developing eggs, we can change course. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Tetra War Hi, I have two white skirt Tetras, one older and bigger than the other, since I bought the younger one 8 months ago, there hasn't been any kind of problem between them, they weren't "schooling" togeather though, neither did I notice spawning "spectacles". About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the big one's belly is getting bigger without any signs of illness or stress, I don't know if it's a female holding eggs? Two weeks later, the smaller Tetra started to harass the bigger one constantly, causing torn ventral fin, it chases it around whenever they came across eachother in the 20 g community tank. Do you have any idea what's going on? Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47591	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)

Is your siphon that you're using with your sink a home made one or something that you bought at the store? A picture might help everyone understand what you're talking about ;) LOL From what it sounds you're using a siphon that drains into the sink, but if you're hooking it up to the faucet to refill the tank then it gets confusing to visualize ;) This is what I use to clean/fill my tanks (you've heard people talk about the Python no spill system I'm sure, since you've mentioned it in your post. http://www.pythonproducts.com/aqprod.html Do you have something similar or is it different somehow? Amber Noura wrote: > > My hose is a clear 1/2" hose, I try to empty it everytime I finish > using it, but there are always water remains and it sits in the west > balkony all the time, so I'll make sure to run some water in before > filling the tanks. > > Another question came across today as I was performing the PWCs. I > attached the 10meter (about 30') hose to my gravel siphon (or > python?), and didn't succeed to start the siphon by agitation. I had > to start it with the short hose (3') first then attach the longer one, > which caused a watery mess, did anyone face this problem? how did you > solve it? > > Second question, I couldn't find a hose that fits well into the siphon > tube itself, so I have to attach either a narrower or a wider one to > the original 1meter hose. Which is better to get a stronger water > current through a siphon hose: Get a slightly narrower or slightly > wider hose to attach to the original siphon's hose? I noticed the > current was weak when I attached the wider hose, and couldn't clean my > gravel properly, so I don't know if it's a diameter problem. I need to > know if buying a narrower hose would solve the problem. > > Thanks > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47592	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Can I clean the algae?

Hi again Now that my tank seems to be clearing, would taking out some of the gravel and rinsing it to clean off the algae be a problem? I don't want to disrupt my cycle...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47593	From: Noura	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War

Yes, this is the species, but the bigger fish reached 2" quickly several months ago and stopped growing. The problem with forming a group of Tetras to avoid aggression, is that I got ONE white tetra, which is the bigger, as a gift from a dear friend, and that friend "fell in love" with the fish on the road from the fish store to my house! I admit it is a beautiful lovely fish. So I went a few weeks later and bought a companion for it, I didn't want more because I don't want to crowd the tank any further. I'll try to put the two Tetras tomorrow in a separate tank and see what happens. I'm not eager to breed them, but if those were eggs, then I would like that the poor fish gets rid of them, I know how it feels to have a belly filled with babies, I'm a mom you know! What can I do to encourage the spawning? heat? more frequent PWCs? If the aggression still consists, I'll take the big fish back to the 20g and leave that small bully alone, but if it is eggs, not a kind of illness, will the fish release them for sure without a male around or proper spawning condition (i.e. in a community tank)? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Tetra War Noura, By white skirt tetra, I presume you mean an albino variety of _Gymnocorymbus ternetzi_. I will proceed under that assumption. These fish can grow to about 3" SL. They should be kept in an odd numbered group to avoid problems of aggression between individual fish of the species (conspecifics) and/or toward other fish in the tank. Otherwise, they tend to be a peaceful fish. They do well in a wide range of pH, and as I recall, your pH is in the mid to upper 7 range, so you should be OK there. Temperature is not much of a concern to them either. It is near impossible to determine the sex of an individual fish since there is no sexual dimorphism. This places you at a disadvantage if you are hoping to breed the fish, but I doubt if the fish themselves have any problems discerning the difference. You say that the larger is beginning to "thicken" in the abdominal area, and the smaller is harassing the larger now. You wonder if this one may be filling with eggs, and it is a male harassing her. Unfortunately, I cannot say from the information on hand. What I would suggest is to separate the two fish, either with a divider in the current tank, or by moving the smaller to another tank on a temporary basis. Keep an eye on the larger one, but not obsessively so. You are looking for further development in the abdominal area. If the fish remains the same, it may be time to look at another cause. If there is more development, it may be eggs, and the two should be placed together again to look for further developments. If it is eggs, they will eventually be released. If the other fish is a male, then the eggs may even be fertilized. Since these fish are known as egg-scatterers, it is unlikely that you would see any fry from this situation, since you have other fish in the tank. Let us know how things progress, and, if it seems that this is not caused by developing eggs, we can change course. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Tetra War Hi, I have two white skirt Tetras, one older and bigger than the other, since I bought the younger one 8 months ago, there hasn't been any kind of problem between them, they weren't "schooling" togeather though, neither did I notice spawning "spectacles". About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the big one's belly is getting bigger without any signs of illness or stress, I don't know if it's a female holding eggs? Two weeks later, the smaller Tetra started to harass the bigger one constantly, causing torn ventral fin, it chases it around whenever they came across eachother in the 20 g community tank. Do you have any idea what's going on? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47594	From: Noura	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list Here's a pic of my siphon, I connect the long 1/2" additional hose to the original hose that you can see in this pic. I experimented again with my siphon this afternoon, by filling the hose from the tap first, and then putting the siphon in the tank while plugging the other end first. That did start the siphon but the water flow was still too weak, perhaps because there has been air pockets that formed when putting the siphon in the tank, I couldn't get rid of these. The hose works fine if used ALONE without the siphon, to empty the tank without cleaning the gravel. But using it with the siphon is making it complicated and frustrating. The tank's buttom is about two and a half feet high. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner) Is your siphon that you're using with your sink a home made one or something that you bought at the store? A picture might help everyone understand what you're talking about ;) LOL From what it sounds you're using a siphon that drains into the sink, but if you're hooking it up to the faucet to refill the tank then it gets confusing to visualize ;) This is what I use to clean/fill my tanks (you've heard people talk about the Python no spill system I'm sure, since you've mentioned it in your post. http://www.pythonproducts.com/aqprod.html Do you have something similar or is it different somehow? Amber Noura wrote: > > My hose is a clear 1/2" hose, I try to empty it everytime I finish > using it, but there are always water remains and it sits in the west > balkony all the time, so I'll make sure to run some water in before > filling the tanks. > > Another question came across today as I was performing the PWCs. I > attached the 10meter (about 30') hose to my gravel siphon (or > python?), and didn't succeed to start the siphon by agitation. I had > to start it with the short hose (3') first then attach the longer one, > which caused a watery mess, did anyone face this problem? how did you > solve it? > > Second question, I couldn't find a hose that fits well into the siphon > tube itself, so I have to attach either a narrower or a wider one to > the original 1meter hose. Which is better to get a stronger water > current through a siphon hose: Get a slightly narrower or slightly > wider hose to attach to the original siphon's hose? I noticed the > current was weak when I attached the wider hose, and couldn't clean my > gravel properly, so I don't know if it's a diameter problem. I need to > know if buying a narrower hose would solve the problem. > > Thanks > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47595	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: Can I clean the algae?

That could disrupt your cycle, don’t do it. Is your cycle complete or still in progress? If your cycle is complete (ammonia=0 and nitrite=0 for several days) then it would be ok to vacuum half the gravel. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I clean the algae? Hi again Now that my tank seems to be clearing, would taking out some of the gravel and rinsing it to clean off the algae be a problem? I don't want to disrupt my cycle... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47596	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War

Noura, Normally, the eggs will either be released or re-adsorbed into the female's body if they are not released. I've not kept a lot of tetras, nor have I bred them, so I am not familiar with what may trigger a spawn. Generally, being well fed, live foods are better, and feeling comfortable in their surroundings help a lot. For many species of fish, a large water change is a trigger, if the fish are ready. I don't know if Ray is familiar with tetras, but I believe he is a friend of someone who has had a lot of experience with them, and may be able to ask him for you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The Tetra War Yes, this is the species, but the bigger fish reached 2" quickly several months ago and stopped growing. The problem with forming a group of Tetras to avoid aggression, is that I got ONE white tetra, which is the bigger, as a gift from a dear friend, and that friend "fell in love" with the fish on the road from the fish store to my house! I admit it is a beautiful lovely fish. So I went a few weeks later and bought a companion for it, I didn't want more because I don't want to crowd the tank any further. I'll try to put the two Tetras tomorrow in a separate tank and see what happens. I'm not eager to breed them, but if those were eggs, then I would like that the poor fish gets rid of them, I know how it feels to have a belly filled with babies, I'm a mom you know! What can I do to encourage the spawning? heat? more frequent PWCs? If the aggression still consists, I'll take the big fish back to the 20g and leave that small bully alone, but if it is eggs, not a kind of illness, will the fish release them for sure without a male around or proper spawning condition (i.e. in a community tank)? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:43 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The Tetra War Noura, By white skirt tetra, I presume you mean an albino variety of _Gymnocorymbus ternetzi_. I will proceed under that assumption. These fish can grow to about 3" SL. They should be kept in an odd numbered group to avoid problems of aggression between individual fish of the species (conspecifics) and/or toward other fish in the tank. Otherwise, they tend to be a peaceful fish. They do well in a wide range of pH, and as I recall, your pH is in the mid to upper 7 range, so you should be OK there. Temperature is not much of a concern to them either. It is near impossible to determine the sex of an individual fish since there is no sexual dimorphism. This places you at a disadvantage if you are hoping to breed the fish, but I doubt if the fish themselves have any problems discerning the difference. You say that the larger is beginning to "thicken" in the abdominal area, and the smaller is harassing the larger now. You wonder if this one may be filling with eggs, and it is a male harassing her. Unfortunately, I cannot say from the information on hand. What I would suggest is to separate the two fish, either with a divider in the current tank, or by moving the smaller to another tank on a temporary basis. Keep an eye on the larger one, but not obsessively so. You are looking for further development in the abdominal area. If the fish remains the same, it may be time to look at another cause. If there is more development, it may be eggs, and the two should be placed together again to look for further developments. If it is eggs, they will eventually be released. If the other fish is a male, then the eggs may even be fertilized. Since these fish are known as egg-scatterers, it is unlikely that you would see any fry from this situation, since you have other fish in the tank. Let us know how things progress, and, if it seems that this is not caused by developing eggs, we can change course. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] The Tetra War Hi, I have two white skirt Tetras, one older and bigger than the other, since I bought the younger one 8 months ago, there hasn't been any kind of problem between them, they weren't "schooling" togeather though, neither did I notice spawning "spectacles". About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the big one's belly is getting bigger without any signs of illness or stress, I don't know if it's a female holding eggs? Two weeks later, the smaller Tetra started to harass the bigger one constantly, causing torn ventral fin, it chases it around whenever they came across eachother in the 20 g community tank. Do you have any idea what's going on? Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: Can I clean the algae?

Leave everything alone for now. Follow the directions in my blog article about doing filter maintenance. Once your tank has been up for a couple of months and it is testing 0.0 for ammonia and nitrites and getting a steadily rising nitrate level, which you control with PWC's, then your tank will be fully cycled. Then, you can start to clean off some of the algae but you still have to do things in stages so you do not disrupt the ecology of the tank too much. Can you take some pictures? A little algae is pretty normal and it actually beneficial in many ways and I don't think you'll ever get to where you have no algae in a tank. At least I never have... except for a brand new tank that isn't cycled and stabilized yet... or an empty tank. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Can I clean the algae? Hi again Now that my tank seems to be clearing, would taking out some of the gravel and rinsing it to clean off the algae be a problem? I don't want to disrupt my cycle...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47598	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/27/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)

OK. Here's a thought for you since one end of your hose will connect to your faucet. Connect it first and slowly fill up the hose and the actual gravel vacuum tube, while holding the larger tube upright, with the opening up, and then sink it into the tank without spilling the water over. Then you can turn the gravel vacuum tube back into the normal position, go turn off the water and disconnect it from the faucet, then lower that end into the sink and it should start siphoning and there shouldn't be any air in the line. If the end of the hose in the sink isn't very low to the floor, you're never going to get the kind of suction (siphon) that you got when you had a bucket sitting on the floor. The thing I've seen with folks that drain their tanks and siphon the gravel, not using a Python, is they let the end of the hose run out a window or door into their garden or yard and let the fish water the garden/lawn. It's good for that... and that makes the end of the hose much lower than when it's in the sink. You could also put the end of the hose in your bathtub or shower which would be lower to the floor and create a better siphon. A smaller diameter hose will not allow as much water to flow so it would have a slower siphon rate than a larger diameter hose. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list Here's a pic of my siphon, I connect the long 1/2" additional hose to the original hose that you can see in this pic. I experimented again with my siphon this afternoon, by filling the hose from the tap first, and then putting the siphon in the tank while plugging the other end first. That did start the siphon but the water flow was still too weak, perhaps because there has been air pockets that formed when putting the siphon in the tank, I couldn't get rid of these. The hose works fine if used ALONE without the siphon, to empty the tank without cleaning the gravel. But using it with the siphon is making it complicated and frustrating. The tank's buttom is about two and a half feet high. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner) Is your siphon that you're using with your sink a home made one or something that you bought at the store? A picture might help everyone understand what you're talking about ;) LOL From what it sounds you're using a siphon that drains into the sink, but if you're hooking it up to the faucet to refill the tank then it gets confusing to visualize ;) This is what I use to clean/fill my tanks (you've heard people talk about the Python no spill system I'm sure, since you've mentioned it in your post. http://www.pythonproducts.com/aqprod.html Do you have something similar or is it different somehow? Amber Noura wrote: > > My hose is a clear 1/2" hose, I try to empty it everytime I finish > using it, but there are always water remains and it sits in the west > balkony all the time, so I'll make sure to run some water in before > filling the tanks. > > Another question came across today as I was performing the PWCs. I > attached the 10meter (about 30') hose to my gravel siphon (or > python?), and didn't succeed to start the siphon by agitation. I had > to start it with the short hose (3') first then attach the longer one, > which caused a watery mess, did anyone face this problem? how did you > solve it? > > Second question, I couldn't find a hose that fits well into the siphon > tube itself, so I have to attach either a narrower or a wider one to > the original 1meter hose. Which is better to get a stronger water > current through a siphon hose: Get a slightly narrower or slightly > wider hose to attach to the original siphon's hose? I noticed the > current was weak when I attached the wider hose, and couldn't clean my > gravel properly, so I don't know if it's a diameter problem. I need to > know if buying a narrower hose would solve the problem. > > Thanks > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47599	From: Mike Whitfield	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out i

I'm confused about this bill. I would generally support requiring a summary of information about any commercially sold pet, but what is the point of signing a paper to that affect? Is there to be a Federal Iguana Bureau? (Don't laugh, it could happen.) Are pet stores supposed to archive these things against some future federal iguana paperwork inspector, send them to D.C., digitize and upload them so that private citizens can make sure there are no ill-informed iguana owners running around? If one must sign a paper, there must then be something to do with the paper. It seems strange that this comes up in the midst of such a severe recession, but I suppose that since the Republicans aren't allowed to help write (or even read) the Democrats' bills, they have a lot of time to think about other things. But still - iguanas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47600	From: Noura	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner)

That sounds right, I'll see if it works in a few days, I already emptied too much off my tank yesterday while experimenting, and had to add the new water very gradually to avoid big changes in chemistry, I'm not done with filling them back yet. lol btw, I put the other end of the hose in the shower, which is the lowest level, never works when I put it in the sink. Will tell you how it goes next time, thanks Lenny and everyone. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:31 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner) OK. Here's a thought for you since one end of your hose will connect to your faucet. Connect it first and slowly fill up the hose and the actual gravel vacuum tube, while holding the larger tube upright, with the opening up, and then sink it into the tank without spilling the water over. Then you can turn the gravel vacuum tube back into the normal position, go turn off the water and disconnect it from the faucet, then lower that end into the sink and it should start siphoning and there shouldn't be any air in the line. If the end of the hose in the sink isn't very low to the floor, you're never going to get the kind of suction (siphon) that you got when you had a bucket sitting on the floor. The thing I've seen with folks that drain their tanks and siphon the gravel, not using a Python, is they let the end of the hose run out a window or door into their garden or yard and let the fish water the garden/lawn. It's good for that... and that makes the end of the hose much lower than when it's in the sink. You could also put the end of the hose in your bathtub or shower which would be lower to the floor and create a better siphon. A smaller diameter hose will not allow as much water to flow so it would have a slower siphon rate than a larger diameter hose. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list Here's a pic of my siphon, I connect the long 1/2" additional hose to the original hose that you can see in this pic. I experimented again with my siphon this afternoon, by filling the hose from the tap first, and then putting the siphon in the tank while plugging the other end first. That did start the siphon but the water flow was still too weak, perhaps because there has been air pockets that formed when putting the siphon in the tank, I couldn't get rid of these. The hose works fine if used ALONE without the siphon, to empty the tank without cleaning the gravel. But using it with the siphon is making it complicated and frustrating. The tank's buttom is about two and a half feet high. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] LONG siphon hose (was Re:Conditioner) Is your siphon that you're using with your sink a home made one or something that you bought at the store? A picture might help everyone understand what you're talking about ;) LOL From what it sounds you're using a siphon that drains into the sink, but if you're hooking it up to the faucet to refill the tank then it gets confusing to visualize ;) This is what I use to clean/fill my tanks (you've heard people talk about the Python no spill system I'm sure, since you've mentioned it in your post. http://www.pythonproducts.com/aqprod.html Do you have something similar or is it different somehow? Amber Noura wrote: > > My hose is a clear 1/2" hose, I try to empty it everytime I finish > using it, but there are always water remains and it sits in the west > balkony all the time, so I'll make sure to run some water in before > filling the tanks. > > Another question came across today as I was performing the PWCs. I > attached the 10meter (about 30') hose to my gravel siphon (or > python?), and didn't succeed to start the siphon by agitation. I had > to start it with the short hose (3') first then attach the longer one, > which caused a watery mess, did anyone face this problem? how did you > solve it? > > Second question, I couldn't find a hose that fits well into the siphon > tube itself, so I have to attach either a narrower or a wider one to > the original 1meter hose. Which is better to get a stronger water > current through a siphon hose: Get a slightly narrower or slightly > wider hose to attach to the original siphon's hose? I noticed the > current was weak when I attached the wider hose, and couldn't clean my > gravel properly, so I don't know if it's a diameter problem. I need to > know if buying a narrower hose would solve the problem. > > Thanks > Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47601	From: Noura	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Conditioner

Hi, see this link, or just read the snap below. I'm sure someoneS have something to say about that here, http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/essentials_p2.htm#3 "If you have an Aquarium or Pond, twice a week remove 15% to 20% of the water and replace that water with fresh tap water from the faucet. You don't need to add Water Conditioner to the new water when you replace 20% or less. Click here for more information about Water Conditioner. But replacing more than 20% of the water during one day is risky, even when you add Water Conditioner." Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47602	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: Conditioner

Those guys are so far off the wall, it really is not believable. I pity those who get sucked in by their advice. I looked for an e-mail address I could use on their site, but I did not see one other than those for orders. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Conditioner Hi, see this link, or just read the snap below. I'm sure someoneS have something to say about that here, http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/essentials_p2.htm#3 "If you have an Aquarium or Pond, twice a week remove 15% to 20% of the water and replace that water with fresh tap water from the faucet. You don't need to add Water Conditioner to the new water when you replace 20% or less. Click here for more information about Water Conditioner. But replacing more than 20% of the water during one day is risky, even when you add Water Conditioner." Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47603	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: Conditioner

That website is notorious for giving BAD information. They do have some good information too but there is so much bad information, that I rarely even reference the good info they have. This is yet another case of their bad information. I didn't read the entire page to see if that snip is being taken out of context BUT in the past, ONLY FOR PONDS, if people had water treated with CHLORINE only, they could get by with a 10% PWC or top off and it wouldn't cause any noticeable distress but chlorine outgases very quickly compared to chloramine which takes 7 - 14 days to break down and outgas the chlorine without using a dechlor product. If you are looking for "essential" information, see my blog page, "A to Z of Fish Keeping" and the two FREE tutorials listed near the top of that page goes through all of the basics and essentials of fish keeping and those two websites are reliable sources of information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Conditioner Hi, see this link, or just read the snap below. I'm sure someoneS have something to say about that here, http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/essentials_p2.htm#3 "If you have an Aquarium or Pond, twice a week remove 15% to 20% of the water and replace that water with fresh tap water from the faucet. You don't need to add Water Conditioner to the new water when you replace 20% or less. Click here for more information about Water Conditioner. But replacing more than 20% of the water during one day is risky, even when you add Water Conditioner." Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47604	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out i

Mike, It's the Federal Bureau of Iguana's... which is pretty much all the current FBI will be in charge of in the next 3-7 years... hopefully only three. ;-) Your questions are exactly WHY I think this should be handled by the private sector or at worst, on a State by State basis. God knows we do not need another bloated, wasteful government bureaucracy. Further, if you see the very first post of mine, I also questioned whether or not even State government should be considering this kind of attempt. If there was to be a law, then it should read nice and simple, not 2,700 pages, and say, "Pet stores shall provide customers with reliable care information, in the form of a print out, on each pet that the customer purchases". You see politicians, things can be done without bloviating. Your point about politicians having too much time on their hands goes back to the formation of our country where lawmakers were supposed to be part-time positions as our founding fathers knew that if lawmakers had too much time on their hands, they'd surely screw things up. 200+ years later proves our founding fathers were VERY CORRECT... almost prophetic!!! BTW... I tracked down this lawmaker's email address and forwarded the link to this thread to him. I'm not sure if he'll join the group and address our concerns... more than likely not. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Whitfield Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] OT - kind of - North Louisiana lawmaker wants law spelling out iguana care I'm confused about this bill. I would generally support requiring a summary of information about any commercially sold pet, but what is the point of signing a paper to that affect? Is there to be a Federal Iguana Bureau? (Don't laugh, it could happen.) Are pet stores supposed to archive these things against some future federal iguana paperwork inspector, send them to D.C., digitize and upload them so that private citizens can make sure there are no ill-informed iguana owners running around? If one must sign a paper, there must then be something to do with the paper. It seems strange that this comes up in the midst of such a severe recession, but I suppose that since the Republicans aren't allowed to help write (or even read) the Democrats' bills, they have a lot of time to think about other things. But still - iguanas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47605	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: Conditioner

Hi Noura, Adding to \\Steve's// commentary about this topic, the website, < AquariumFish.net > that originating from the two brothers -- Tom and Nevin Bailey -- was fairly recently stumbled upon by myself when searching for information concerning the availability of several apparently no-longer-existant (in the hobby) Lake Malawi Cichlids which I've been trying to locate without success. I've tried going to the Bailey brothers' site, in hopes they may be carrying them as they had when first coming onto the aquarium scene in the early 1970's with listings of a number of these fish. At that time, they were selling their tank-raised juvenile Malawi Cichlids to hobbyists via mail order. Just as \\Steve// has discovered, I too noticed more recently that any other email address on their site, with exception of that devoted to placing fish orders from them, was non-existant. By this, it appeared to me that their main interest was for self-fulfillment in receiving orders for their fish rather than having the needs of the hobbyist in mind. I also note that while there is some valuable (and correct) information on their site for fish maintenance, I was extremely surprised -- since my knowing of these brothers' experience in the hobby from the 1970's -- that much of the information they were supplying on their current website in misleading and/or erroneous and that unless one knew what information to believe in the first place, one could easily become mis-lead. To address your concern about this site's ( <aquariumfish.net > ) statement that the hobbyist need not add and water conditioner to a pond or aquarium when doing twice-weekly PWC's of up to 20% each, this blanket statement is far too vague and inconcise -- with the result that if someone were to follow this advice, they could easily end up with a tank full of dead fish. Such a broad statement here needs defining of just what additives one's water company is putting into the water supply. This statement may hold true as far as being fairly safe in most instances, when a water company is not adding much more than its normal/average compliment of chlorine, which will usually easily dissipate from the aquarium water within 24 hours in quantities not much more that would be found in 1/5 of a tank's total amount of water as compared to its having been 100% (totally) drawn. As the hobbyist wouldn't be subjecting the fish to an amount of chlorine that would be found in a total quantity of the tank's capacity at any one time when doing PWC's, but instead just a fraction of the tank's capacity, this relatively small amount of chlorine would normally be safe, except when the need arises by the water company to use additional amounts of this bacticide in warmer weather -- AND when much colder water will HOLD greater quantities of chlorine under pressure. So, even by this, it can be seen that the use of a chlorine neutralizer is prudent when the additives of this element by the supplier at the consumer's end is unknown. Now, when the water company uses chloramine, each subsequent PWC will add to and compound the existing chloramine additive that is in the water supply being added to the aquarium (if not using a proper water conditioner) -- it does not dissipate of its own accord. It can take up to 3 weeks for chloramine to break down in the aquarium via the gradual action of bacteria in the water column -- and longer in a tank that is just being cycled. By adding more chloramine with each PWC, and not using any water conditioner to render this ammonia safe for the fish, a fatal quantity of this additive would accumulate in short time even though the hobbyist is only doing 20% (or less) PWC's. Even if, by chance, a fatal quantity was not reached, the water column would increasingly become more and more toxic to the fish, leading to very disabling health issues most notably in burning the gill tissues while infusing the blood with this compound -- most probably resulting in the fishes' deaths anyway but at a slower pace. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47606	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Aquarium Fire

http://www.swtimes.com/articles/2010/03/24/news/news032410_12.txt http://tinyurl.com/yhv3gda Junior High Aquarium Catches Fire Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:01 AM CDT Times Record Staff An aquarium at Butterfield Junior High School in Van Buren caught fire Tuesday. Firefighters with the Van Buren Fire Department were dispatched to the school Tuesday night. When they arrived at the scene they found an aquarium inside the school had caught fire but had extinguished itself, according to an official with the Fire Department. The fire did not spread beyond the aquarium, the official said. The cause of the fire is unknown, but it could have been an electrical malfunction, according to the official. None of the fish inside the aquarium survived the fire. [END] \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47607	From: hank	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > Noura: Your tetras are probably in the mood for spawning.The male is usually slightly smaller than the female.The chaseing is normal behavior for the Black Tetra (white skirt).Even in groups they will always chase each other it rarely causes any serious damage. You can sex them quite easily The female is usually larger and plumper than the male,which is fairly slim.Another way (if you want to try it)is to net a fish out and holding the fish in your fingers gently rub the anal fin against a fine mesh net. A male has a hook on their first ray of the fin and it catch on the material.A lot of tetras can be sexed this way. Since your not interested in breeding them i would leave them together to encourage the release of the eggs.Tetras have a habit of sometimes having the eggs go bad and end up with dropsy. Regards Hank > Hi, > I have two white skirt Tetras, one older and bigger than the other, since I bought the younger one 8 months ago, there hasn't been any kind of problem between them, they weren't "schooling" togeather though, neither did I notice spawning "spectacles". > > About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the big one's belly is getting bigger without any signs of illness or stress, I don't know if it's a female holding eggs? Two weeks later, the smaller Tetra started to harass the bigger one constantly, causing torn ventral fin, it chases it around whenever they came across eachother in the 20 g community tank. > > Do you have any idea what's going on? > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47608	From: hank voss	Date: 3/28/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War

--- On Sun, 3/28/10, hank <aatetras@...> wrote: From: hank <aatetras@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The Tetra War To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 28, 2010, 4:58 PM   --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, "Noura" <n-taweel@.. .> wrote: > Noura: Your tetras are probably in the mood for spawning.The male is usually slightly smaller than the female.The chaseing is normal behavior for the Black Tetra (white skirt).Even in groups they will always chase each other it rarely causes any serious damage. You can sex them quite easily The female is usually larger and plumper than the male,which is fairly slim.Another way (if you want to try it)is to net a fish out and holding the fish in your fingers gently rub the anal fin against a fine mesh net. A male has a hook on their first ray of the fin and it catch on the material.A lot of tetras can be sexed this way. Since your not interested in breeding them i would leave them together to encourage the release of the eggs.Tetras have a habit of sometimes having the eggs go bad and end up with dropsy. Regards Hank > Hi, > I have two white skirt Tetras, one older and bigger than the other, since I bought the younger one 8 months ago, there hasn't been any kind of problem between them, they weren't "schooling" togeather though, neither did I notice spawning "spectacles" . > > About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the big one's belly is getting bigger without any signs of illness or stress, I don't know if it's a female holding eggs? Two weeks later, the smaller Tetra started to harass the bigger one constantly, causing torn ventral fin, it chases it around whenever they came across eachother in the 20 g community tank. > > Do you have any idea what's going on? > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47609	From: Noura	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War

Thanks Hank, Indeed, you description of both sexes applies to my two Tetras, I probably have a couple. I'm not encouraged to do the "net and rub" test on "him" though. I have put them in another tank since about 18 hours, and now they are BOTH chasing eachother, not just the small chasing the big, and none is trying to hide. I had to add a general aid to the "breeding" tank, because the female's fins are damaged, not too much, but they are shorter than normal and worn out, I was just being cautious not to allow a secondary bacterial infection, I don't know if the medication will harm the spawning process. How long does the whole process usually take, so I can know when to give up and put one or both of them back to the 20G? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: hank voss To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:04 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The Tetra War Noura: Your tetras are probably in the mood for spawning.The male is usually slightly smaller than the female.The chaseing is normal behavior for the Black Tetra (white skirt).Even in groups they will always chase each other it rarely causes any serious damage. You can sex them quite easily The female is usually larger and plumper than the male,which is fairly slim.Another way (if you want to try it)is to net a fish out and holding the fish in your fingers gently rub the anal fin against a fine mesh net. A male has a hook on their first ray of the fin and it catch on the material.A lot of tetras can be sexed this way. Since your not interested in breeding them i would leave them together to encourage the release of the eggs.Tetras have a habit of sometimes having the eggs go bad and end up with dropsy. Regards Hank > Hi, > I have two white skirt Tetras, one older and bigger than the other, since I bought the younger one 8 months ago, there hasn't been any kind of problem between them, they weren't "schooling" togeather though, neither did I notice spawning "spectacles" . > > About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the big one's belly is getting bigger without any signs of illness or stress, I don't know if it's a female holding eggs? Two weeks later, the smaller Tetra started to harass the bigger one constantly, causing torn ventral fin, it chases it around whenever they came across eachother in the 20 g community tank. > > Do you have any idea what's going on? > > Noura > > [ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47610	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: neon tetras

I have a bunch of albino corydoras and was thinking of getting a herd of neon tetras for the middle. I once purchased 5 and they all died, even though the other fish lasted many years. Are there any special requirements for neons?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47611	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Re: neon tetras

What are your tank's water parameters like? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness (GH & KH), temperature? What size tank? Planted, etc.? What kind of Cory's (there are several commonly available)? Neon tetras can be pretty finicky and do not do well in all tanks. Having more info will help us to help you better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tootsie2toes2 Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] neon tetras I have a bunch of albino corydoras and was thinking of getting a herd of neon tetras for the middle. I once purchased 5 and they all died, even though the other fish lasted many years. Are there any special requirements for neons?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47612	From: hank	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > Noura: Are you planning to breed them?If so you will have to have a supplt of infusoria ready for them for food.They should spawn in 1-2 days if they don"tseparate themand try again in a few days.Myself i usually put the males in first and the females the next day. You will need a spawning medium(plants/mop)The female will slim ddown after spawning and you will see the eggs attached the spawning site.They should hatch out in about 30-36 hrs. at about 76F.The fry become free swimming around 4 days.At that time you have to start feeding them. The meds. in the tank should not harm the eggs(depending what type you used). Good Luck Hank ====================================================================== > Thanks Hank, > Indeed, you description of both sexes applies to my two Tetras, I probably have a couple. I'm not encouraged to do the "net and rub" test on "him" though. > > I have put them in another tank since about 18 hours, and now they are BOTH chasing eachother, not just the small chasing the big, and none is trying to hide. > I had to add a general aid to the "breeding" tank, because the female's fins are damaged, not too much, but they are shorter than normal and worn out, I was just being cautious not to allow a secondary bacterial infection, I don't know if the medication will harm the spawning process. > > How long does the whole process usually take, so I can know when to give up and put one or both of them back to the 20G? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: hank voss > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:04 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The Tetra War > > > > > > Noura: > > Your tetras are probably in the mood for spawning.The male is usually slightly smaller than the female.The chaseing is normal behavior for the Black Tetra (white skirt).Even in groups they will always chase each other it rarely causes any serious damage. > > You can sex them quite easily The female is usually larger and plumper than the male,which is fairly slim.Another way (if you want to try it)is to net a fish out and holding the fish in your fingers gently rub the anal fin against a fine mesh net. A male has a hook on their first ray of the fin and it catch on the material.A lot of tetras can be sexed this way. > > Since your not interested in breeding them i would leave them together to encourage the release of the eggs.Tetras have a habit of sometimes having the eggs go bad and end up with dropsy. > > Regards Hank > > > Hi, > > > I have two white skirt Tetras, one older and bigger than the other, since I bought the younger one 8 months ago, there hasn't been any kind of problem between them, they weren't "schooling" togeather though, neither did I notice spawning "spectacles" . > > > > > > About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the big one's belly is getting bigger without any signs of illness or stress, I don't know if it's a female holding eggs? Two weeks later, the smaller Tetra started to harass the bigger one constantly, causing torn ventral fin, it chases it around whenever they came across eachother in the 20 g community tank. > > > > > > Do you have any idea what's going on? > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > [ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47613	From: Noura	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Re: The Tetra War

No i only want the eggs out of the female, so she won't be sick. I was asking about the medication's effect on their "will" to spawn, I don't care if it affects the eggs, I don't want to raise the fry, I'm having all the joy "and trouble" of babies with my Guppies and my own children! The tank has fine gravel, a medium sized rock, a plastic big plant, in addition to the filter and heater. What else can I put to encourage them? what could do as a (mop), maybe a polyster piece attached on the rock? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: hank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:39 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: The Tetra War --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > Noura: Are you planning to breed them?If so you will have to have a supplt of infusoria ready for them for food.They should spawn in 1-2 days if they don"tseparate themand try again in a few days.Myself i usually put the males in first and the females the next day. You will need a spawning medium(plants/mop)The female will slim ddown after spawning and you will see the eggs attached the spawning site.They should hatch out in about 30-36 hrs. at about 76F.The fry become free swimming around 4 days.At that time you have to start feeding them. The meds. in the tank should not harm the eggs(depending what type you used). Good Luck Hank ====================================================================== > Thanks Hank, > Indeed, you description of both sexes applies to my two Tetras, I probably have a couple. I'm not encouraged to do the "net and rub" test on "him" though. > > I have put them in another tank since about 18 hours, and now they are BOTH chasing eachother, not just the small chasing the big, and none is trying to hide. > I had to add a general aid to the "breeding" tank, because the female's fins are damaged, not too much, but they are shorter than normal and worn out, I was just being cautious not to allow a secondary bacterial infection, I don't know if the medication will harm the spawning process. > > How long does the whole process usually take, so I can know when to give up and put one or both of them back to the 20G? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: hank voss > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:04 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: The Tetra War > > > > > > Noura: > > Your tetras are probably in the mood for spawning.The male is usually slightly smaller than the female.The chaseing is normal behavior for the Black Tetra (white skirt).Even in groups they will always chase each other it rarely causes any serious damage. > > You can sex them quite easily The female is usually larger and plumper than the male,which is fairly slim.Another way (if you want to try it)is to net a fish out and holding the fish in your fingers gently rub the anal fin against a fine mesh net. A male has a hook on their first ray of the fin and it catch on the material.A lot of tetras can be sexed this way. > > Since your not interested in breeding them i would leave them together to encourage the release of the eggs.Tetras have a habit of sometimes having the eggs go bad and end up with dropsy. > > Regards Hank > > > Hi, > > > I have two white skirt Tetras, one older and bigger than the other, since I bought the younger one 8 months ago, there hasn't been any kind of problem between them, they weren't "schooling" togeather though, neither did I notice spawning "spectacles" . > > > > > > About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that the big one's belly is getting bigger without any signs of illness or stress, I don't know if it's a female holding eggs? Two weeks later, the smaller Tetra started to harass the bigger one constantly, causing torn ventral fin, it chases it around whenever they came across eachother in the 20 g community tank. > > > > > > Do you have any idea what's going on? > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > [ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47614	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/29/2010
Subject: Aquarium Magic Trick and more

So.. one of our members sent me the link, below my sig, of some cool magic tricks, including an amazing finale and while watching it, it reminded me of this Aquarium related magic trick that I saw several years ago. That reminded me of this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atga2Nt1s3k Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Enid Rodriguez [mailto:gwydryn2000@...] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:58 PM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Fw: Amazing Subject: Amazing AMAZING Ok, this is simple - just tell me how simple. To my non-Chinese speaking friends.... You don't need to speak Chinese to appreciate this...can you explain what it is that you have just seen.. His finale - will leave you bewildered.. http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hwVy_2eOfsE

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47615	From: Steve Biondi	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium Magic Trick and more

That was amazing. I still can't figure out how he did it. Steve _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 8:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Magic Trick and more So.. one of our members sent me the link, below my sig, of some cool magic tricks, including an amazing finale and while watching it, it reminded me of this Aquarium related magic trick that I saw several years ago. That reminded me of this one. http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atga2Nt1s3k> com/watch?v=Atga2Nt1s3k Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Enid Rodriguez [mailto:gwydryn2000@ <mailto:gwydryn2000%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:58 PM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Fw: Amazing Subject: Amazing AMAZING Ok, this is simple - just tell me how simple. To my non-Chinese speaking friends.... You don't need to speak Chinese to appreciate this...can you explain what it is that you have just seen.. His finale - will leave you bewildered.. http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hwVy_2eOfsE> com/watch_popup?v=hwVy_2eOfsE No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2765 - Release Date: 03/28/10 23:32:00 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47616	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Loner Glo Fish

Hi All It's me again, the one that messed up her cycle! I've got glofish (the genetically modified danios) and one sheems a little peaked. She's a smallish fish and her color is more pale than the others. Additionally we haven't seen her eat today and she seems sort of thin. Can fish be thin? Also, she just sort of hangs out in one spot, where the other ones swim about. She doesn't seem to be in distress--not hanging at the top or gulping, and there isn't anything on her like a sore or fuzz. Any thoughts. I am going to do another PWC tonight to keep the Ammonia down, it was .25 yesterday.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47617	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish

Danio's are not very hardy fish, when I first started cycling my tank last year (with fish as well, made my own mistakes as a newbie, LOL), I lost all of my glofish twice. So don't be surprised if they start to die, even with all your PWC's. They don't handle a lot of stress very well, and cycling a tank with fish causes a lot of stress. Just keep up on your PWC's and testing the tank often and hopefully your glofish will pull through and make it. Amber twin_chicken_mama wrote: > > Hi All > > It's me again, the one that messed up her cycle! I've got glofish (the > genetically modified danios) and one sheems a little peaked. She's a > smallish fish and her color is more pale than the others. Additionally > we haven't seen her eat today and she seems sort of thin. Can fish be > thin? Also, she just sort of hangs out in one spot, where the other > ones swim about. She doesn't seem to be in distress--not hanging at > the top or gulping, and there isn't anything on her like a sore or > fuzz. Any thoughts. I am going to do another PWC tonight to keep the > Ammonia down, it was .25 yesterday. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47618	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish

Hmmm, I have lost far more danios than pristella tetras, but by tropical fish standards, danios are notoriously sturdy. I've had bad experiences lately with glo-fish, and also with any danios from Petco. The glo-fish came from Petco as well. Now, these are suspicious looking fish; many of them come with somewhat crooked backs. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Loner Glo Fish > Danio's are not very hardy fish, when I first started cycling my tank > last year (with fish as well, made my own mistakes as a newbie, LOL), I > lost all of my glofish twice. So don't be surprised if they start to > die, even with all your PWC's. They don't handle a lot of stress very > well, and cycling a tank with fish causes a lot of stress. Just keep up > on your PWC's and testing the tank often and hopefully your glofish will > pull through and make it. > > Amber > > twin_chicken_mama wrote: >> >> Hi All >> >> It's me again, the one that messed up her cycle! I've got glofish (the >> genetically modified danios) and one sheems a little peaked. She's a >> smallish fish and her color is more pale than the others. Additionally >> we haven't seen her eat today and she seems sort of thin. Can fish be >> thin? Also, she just sort of hangs out in one spot, where the other >> ones swim about. She doesn't seem to be in distress--not hanging at >> the top or gulping, and there isn't anything on her like a sore or >> fuzz. Any thoughts. I am going to do another PWC tonight to keep the >> Ammonia down, it was .25 yesterday. >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47619	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish

Same for my LFS, not sure if it's something to do with shipping or the water they are kept in. Either way they don't last long in my tanks, I think the longest is 6 months. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > Hmmm, I have lost far more danios than pristella tetras, but by tropical > fish standards, danios are notoriously sturdy. I've had bad experiences > lately with glo-fish, and also with any danios from Petco. The glo-fish > came from Petco as well. Now, these are suspicious looking fish; many of > them come with somewhat crooked backs. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Loner Glo Fish > > > >> Danio's are not very hardy fish, when I first started cycling my tank >> last year (with fish as well, made my own mistakes as a newbie, LOL), I >> lost all of my glofish twice. So don't be surprised if they start to >> die, even with all your PWC's. They don't handle a lot of stress very >> well, and cycling a tank with fish causes a lot of stress. Just keep up >> on your PWC's and testing the tank often and hopefully your glofish will >> pull through and make it. >> >> Amber >> >> twin_chicken_mama wrote: >> >>> Hi All >>> >>> It's me again, the one that messed up her cycle! I've got glofish (the >>> genetically modified danios) and one sheems a little peaked. She's a >>> smallish fish and her color is more pale than the others. Additionally >>> we haven't seen her eat today and she seems sort of thin. Can fish be >>> thin? Also, she just sort of hangs out in one spot, where the other >>> ones swim about. She doesn't seem to be in distress--not hanging at >>> the top or gulping, and there isn't anything on her like a sore or >>> fuzz. Any thoughts. I am going to do another PWC tonight to keep the >>> Ammonia down, it was .25 yesterday. >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47620	From: William M	Date: 3/30/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish

When buying fish from any store, never buy fish that do not look right. If they have a crooked back missing fins or are in a tank that has sick fish do not buy them, you are only asking for trouble at home. Also some store do not care for their fish as well as they should and sometimes you might buy fish too soon after they have arrived at a store and this will lessen their resistance to diseases and it is stressful to fish to move from one type of water to another much less a couple of time in a short time. Glow fish (genetically modified zebra danios) are not as hardy as their non modified zebra danios. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > Hmmm, I have lost far more danios than pristella tetras, but by tropical > fish standards, danios are notoriously sturdy. I've had bad experiences > lately with glo-fish, and also with any danios from Petco. The glo-fish > came from Petco as well. Now, these are suspicious looking fish; many of > them come with somewhat crooked backs. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Loner Glo Fish > > > > Danio's are not very hardy fish, when I first started cycling my tank > > last year (with fish as well, made my own mistakes as a newbie, LOL), I > > lost all of my glofish twice. So don't be surprised if they start to > > die, even with all your PWC's. They don't handle a lot of stress very > > well, and cycling a tank with fish causes a lot of stress. Just keep up > > on your PWC's and testing the tank often and hopefully your glofish will > > pull through and make it. > > > > Amber > > > > twin_chicken_mama wrote: > >> > >> Hi All > >> > >> It's me again, the one that messed up her cycle! I've got glofish (the > >> genetically modified danios) and one sheems a little peaked. She's a > >> smallish fish and her color is more pale than the others. Additionally > >> we haven't seen her eat today and she seems sort of thin. Can fish be > >> thin? Also, she just sort of hangs out in one spot, where the other > >> ones swim about. She doesn't seem to be in distress--not hanging at > >> the top or gulping, and there isn't anything on her like a sore or > >> fuzz. Any thoughts. I am going to do another PWC tonight to keep the > >> Ammonia down, it was .25 yesterday. > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47621	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish

Well, I no longer have to worry about Bubbles, our sad little glofish as she was eaten by one of the DAFs this morning. I did not witness the murder, but did watch the DAF twitch for a while and when she was gagging a bit, saw a flash of pink. Nothing like explaining survival of the fittest to seven year olds right before school! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > When buying fish from any store, never buy fish that do not look right. If they have a crooked back missing fins or are in a tank that has sick fish do not buy them, you are only asking for trouble at home. Also some store do not care for their fish as well as they should and sometimes you might buy fish too soon after they have arrived at a store and this will lessen their resistance to diseases and it is stressful to fish to move from one type of water to another much less a couple of time in a short time. Glow fish (genetically modified zebra danios) are not as hardy as their non modified zebra danios. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > Hmmm, I have lost far more danios than pristella tetras, but by tropical > > fish standards, danios are notoriously sturdy. I've had bad experiences > > lately with glo-fish, and also with any danios from Petco. The glo-fish > > came from Petco as well. Now, these are suspicious looking fish; many of > > them come with somewhat crooked backs. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Loner Glo Fish > > > > > > > Danio's are not very hardy fish, when I first started cycling my tank > > > last year (with fish as well, made my own mistakes as a newbie, LOL), I > > > lost all of my glofish twice. So don't be surprised if they start to > > > die, even with all your PWC's. They don't handle a lot of stress very > > > well, and cycling a tank with fish causes a lot of stress. Just keep up > > > on your PWC's and testing the tank often and hopefully your glofish will > > > pull through and make it. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > twin_chicken_mama wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi All > > >> > > >> It's me again, the one that messed up her cycle! I've got glofish (the > > >> genetically modified danios) and one sheems a little peaked. She's a > > >> smallish fish and her color is more pale than the others. Additionally > > >> we haven't seen her eat today and she seems sort of thin. Can fish be > > >> thin? Also, she just sort of hangs out in one spot, where the other > > >> ones swim about. She doesn't seem to be in distress--not hanging at > > >> the top or gulping, and there isn't anything on her like a sore or > > >> fuzz. Any thoughts. I am going to do another PWC tonight to keep the > > >> Ammonia down, it was .25 yesterday. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47622	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Loner Glo Fish

I doubt it was "murdered"... murder being a harsh word for what occurs naturally in the wild and when one kills another animal for a meal, it also is not murder. Further, the glofish probably had already died and the ADF was just doing what they naturally do. It probably even muttered, "Mmmmmm.. sushi" before enjoying it's glofish roll. Next time, it said to wrap it in seaweed and some white rice. ;-) As others have stated, ZD's are not nearly as hardy as they once were. Not just the glofish but it seems most ZD's have far more health issues than 10 years ago. At one time, ZD's were often errantly recommended for cycling a tank but cycling with fish is not needed any longer since we now know it can be done without fish and just using a few drops of plain ammonia. It's called "Fishless Cycling" and I have lots of references to Fishless Cycling on my blog, and right near the top of my A to Z page. It's a MUCH safer and more humane way to cycle a tank instead of subjecting fish to the process, which results in high ammonia and nitrite levels for around 6-8 weeks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Loner Glo Fish Well, I no longer have to worry about Bubbles, our sad little glofish as she was eaten by one of the DAFs this morning. I did not witness the murder, but did watch the DAF twitch for a while and when she was gagging a bit, saw a flash of pink. Nothing like explaining survival of the fittest to seven year olds right before school! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > When buying fish from any store, never buy fish that do not look right. If they have a crooked back missing fins or are in a tank that has sick fish do not buy them, you are only asking for trouble at home. Also some store do not care for their fish as well as they should and sometimes you might buy fish too soon after they have arrived at a store and this will lessen their resistance to diseases and it is stressful to fish to move from one type of water to another much less a couple of time in a short time. Glow fish (genetically modified zebra danios) are not as hardy as their non modified zebra danios. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > Hmmm, I have lost far more danios than pristella tetras, but by tropical > > fish standards, danios are notoriously sturdy. I've had bad experiences > > lately with glo-fish, and also with any danios from Petco. The glo-fish > > came from Petco as well. Now, these are suspicious looking fish; many of > > them come with somewhat crooked backs. > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@> > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Loner Glo Fish > > > > > > > Danio's are not very hardy fish, when I first started cycling my > > > tank last year (with fish as well, made my own mistakes as a > > > newbie, LOL), I lost all of my glofish twice. So don't be > > > surprised if they start to die, even with all your PWC's. They > > > don't handle a lot of stress very well, and cycling a tank with > > > fish causes a lot of stress. Just keep up on your PWC's and > > > testing the tank often and hopefully your glofish will pull through and make it. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > twin_chicken_mama wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi All > > >> > > >> It's me again, the one that messed up her cycle! I've got glofish > > >> (the genetically modified danios) and one sheems a little peaked. > > >> She's a smallish fish and her color is more pale than the others. > > >> Additionally we haven't seen her eat today and she seems sort of > > >> thin. Can fish be thin? Also, she just sort of hangs out in one > > >> spot, where the other ones swim about. She doesn't seem to be in > > >> distress--not hanging at the top or gulping, and there isn't > > >> anything on her like a sore or fuzz. Any thoughts. I am going to > > >> do another PWC tonight to keep the Ammonia down, it was .25 yesterday.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47623	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Ammonia/nitrite spike

I am having a slight ammo/nitrite spike in one of my tanks, and now I see that the filter was clogged. I can't see another reason for the spike, but I don't know if a filter clog could cause this? It was basically completely clogged, not really working at all. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47624	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Ammonia/nitrite spike

That can certainly cause it. The overwhelming majority of nitrifying bacteria (the ones that eat ammonia and nitrite) live in the filter media. What happens is the mulm buildup on the filter media blocks the flow of oxygenated water to/through the filter media so the nitrifying bacteria start to die off in the filter media. At the same time, the mulm buildup is slowly dissolving as the water flows over it and overtops the filter cartridge and this decaying mulm is adding ammonia to the system. You do have nitrifying bacteria living on other surface areas of the tank, plants, top layer of gravel, etc., but none of that makes up the amount of surface area contained in filter sponges, floss pads and/or bio-media. What kind (brand/model) of filter did you have? Was it an HOB and the water was just over-topping the cartridge or was it a canister that ended up with little or no water flow? You should be properly cleaning your filters on a weekly to bi-weekly basis, as needed, depending on the bioload of the tank. I have detailed instructions on "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" on my blog, as well as a couple of filter profiles on HOB and canister filters for photos and other info, if you need it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 5:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia/nitrite spike I am having a slight ammo/nitrite spike in one of my tanks, and now I see that the filter was clogged. I can't see another reason for the spike, but I don't know if a filter clog could cause this? It was basically completely clogged, not really working at all. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47625	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Ammonia/nitrite spike

I am using an Aquaclear 50 on a 20g tank. I like the filter - it's a HOB- and I was changing out the sponge regularly, but I don't think I could see the part of the intake where it was clogged and I didn't notice how low the flow had gotten. Can you give me a sense of how long it will take to get the biofilter working again? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 31, 2010, at 7:09 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > That can certainly cause it. The overwhelming majority of nitrifying > bacteria (the ones that eat ammonia and nitrite) live in the filter > media. > What happens is the mulm buildup on the filter media blocks the > flow of > oxygenated water to/through the filter media so the nitrifying > bacteria > start to die off in the filter media. At the same time, the mulm > buildup is > slowly dissolving as the water flows over it and overtops the filter > cartridge and this decaying mulm is adding ammonia to the system. > You do > have nitrifying bacteria living on other surface areas of the tank, > plants, > top layer of gravel, etc., but none of that makes up the amount of > surface > area contained in filter sponges, floss pads and/or bio-media. > > What kind (brand/model) of filter did you have? Was it an HOB and > the water > was just over-topping the cartridge or was it a canister that ended > up with > little or no water flow? > > You should be properly cleaning your filters on a weekly to bi- > weekly basis, > as needed, depending on the bioload of the tank. I have detailed > instructions on "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" on my blog, as > well as a > couple of filter profiles on HOB and canister filters for photos > and other > info, if you need it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 5:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia/nitrite spike > > I am having a slight ammo/nitrite spike in one of my tanks, and now > I see > that the filter was clogged. I can't see another reason for the > spike, but I > don't know if a filter clog could cause this? It was basically > completely > clogged, not really working at all. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47626	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 3/31/2010
Subject: Re: Ammonia/nitrite spike

It depends on how badly the colony of N-bacteria was damaged. Your bio-media (the little white pieces of chalk looking things in the nylon mesh packet) should have plenty of N-bacteria that survived, since you imply the there was still some water flow coming out of the waterfall, if you are using that media, which comes with AC filters. It should be on the top so it should not have gotten clogged up with detritus like the sponge, which is the first layer at the bottom. You indicate that you were "changing" out the sponge regularly but all you should be doing, on a weekly basis, is removing the filter media basket and rinsing all of the media out in some removed tank water. This means squeezing the sponge over and over in the water until it's clean and then putting it back into the media basket, along with the other media, and replacing the basket. For my AC's, I unplug them and take the entire unit to my sink. I also bring along a small pail of removed tank water, about 1/2 to 1 gallon, for the media from an AC-50. I remove the media basket and put it in the pail. Then I start rinsing the rest of the filter parts out under the tap, including the intake tube and the reservoir. Then I squeeze the sponge out till it's clean (but the microscopic N-bacteria will still be alive on the cell walls of the sponge) and I also have a layer of poly-floss pad above the sponge, then the bio-media. I also squeeze or sometimes might even rinse the poly-floss pad under the tap if it's really dirty. Just rinse the bio-media in the pail of removed tank water since it should have the most N-bacteria in it. This shouldn't take more than a 5-10 minutes a week and should keep things flowing smoothly and keep your mechanical and biological filtration in good shape. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 6:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ammonia/nitrite spike I am using an Aquaclear 50 on a 20g tank. I like the filter - it's a HOB- and I was changing out the sponge regularly, but I don't think I could see the part of the intake where it was clogged and I didn't notice how low the flow had gotten. Can you give me a sense of how long it will take to get the biofilter working again? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Mar 31, 2010, at 7:09 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > That can certainly cause it. The overwhelming majority of nitrifying > bacteria (the ones that eat ammonia and nitrite) live in the filter > media. > What happens is the mulm buildup on the filter media blocks the flow > of oxygenated water to/through the filter media so the nitrifying > bacteria start to die off in the filter media. At the same time, the > mulm buildup is slowly dissolving as the water flows over it and > overtops the filter cartridge and this decaying mulm is adding ammonia > to the system. > You do > have nitrifying bacteria living on other surface areas of the tank, > plants, top layer of gravel, etc., but none of that makes up the > amount of surface area contained in filter sponges, floss pads and/or > bio-media. > > What kind (brand/model) of filter did you have? Was it an HOB and the > water was just over-topping the cartridge or was it a canister that > ended up with little or no water flow? > > You should be properly cleaning your filters on a weekly to bi- weekly > basis, as needed, depending on the bioload of the tank. I have > detailed instructions on "Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" on my blog, > as well as a couple of filter profiles on HOB and canister filters for > photos and other info, if you need it. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 5:52 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ammonia/nitrite spike > > I am having a slight ammo/nitrite spike in one of my tanks, and now I > see that the filter was clogged. I can't see another reason for the > spike, but I don't know if a filter clog could cause this? It was > basically completely clogged, not really working at all. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47627	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/1/2010
Subject: What Happened to AquaticLife Today?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47628	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/1/2010
Subject: Re: What Happened to AquaticLife Today?

If you mean, the group's website was down, for the past week or so, Yahoo Group's has been warning all Yahoo Group's of this possible to likely outage today. Unlike Google's annual April Fools Day "Topeka" surprise, this was not a hoax. http://www.Google.com If one is a member of lots of Yahoo Group's or an owner or moderator of one or more groups, it's a good idea to subscribe to the official Yahoo Group's blog. http://www.YGroupsblog.com The latest report is that all maintenance is done now so group website outage should no longer be an issue. "UPDATE: Outage/site maintenance is complete! Thanks for your patience." The groups are still have lots of issues with late or non-delivery of emails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 6:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47629	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Nitrite Nitirate high

Hi all So now my ammonia is low 0 to .25ppm, but my Nitrite and Nitrate levels remain high. I've done a 10% water change two days ago and today along with extra SeaChem but they are still high. I've read I can add salt to the water to protect the fish, but wanted to check with all of you first. Plan to do another PWC tonight before bed too.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high

It would be more helpful if you posted your numbers for nitrite and nitrate, as well as other test results... but in either case, add a pinch of salt per 10G (diluted in a cup of water first). That will help protect the fish from nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder), at least to a certain level of nitrite. You still want to keep your nitrites below 1.0 ppm and your nitrates below 40 ppm. You can control this with more frequent and larger PWC's. 10% isn't much of a PWC. Do at least 25% but not much more unless you know your tap water parameters are pretty close to your tank's water parameters. Do you know your 48 hour tap water baseline numbers yet? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Nitirate high Hi all So now my ammonia is low 0 to .25ppm, but my Nitrite and Nitrate levels remain high. I've done a 10% water change two days ago and today along with extra SeaChem but they are still high. I've read I can add salt to the water to protect the fish, but wanted to check with all of you first. Plan to do another PWC tonight before bed too.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47631	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today?

Hey, what's Google's annual Topeka surprise? I saw the word Topeka on the web site where Google usually is. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 8:21 PM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? If you mean, the group's website was down, for the past week or so, Yahoo Group's has been warning all Yahoo Group's of this possible to likely outage today. Unlike Google's annual April Fools Day "Topeka" surprise, this was not a hoax. http://www.Google.com If one is a member of lots of Yahoo Group's or an owner or moderator of one or more groups, it's a good idea to subscribe to the official Yahoo Group's blog. http://www.YGroupsblog.com The latest report is that all maintenance is done now so group website outage should no longer be an issue. "UPDATE: Outage/site maintenance is complete! Thanks for your patience." The groups are still have lots of issues with late or non-delivery of emails. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 6:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47632	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today?

According to what Lenny said below, it was an April Fool's Joke. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > Hey, what's Google's annual Topeka surprise? I saw the word Topeka on the > web site where Google usually is. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 8:21 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? > > If you mean, the group's website was down, for the past week or so, Yahoo > Group's has been warning all Yahoo Group's of this possible to likely > outage > today. Unlike Google's annual April Fools Day "Topeka" surprise, this was > not a hoax. http://www.Google.com <http://www.Google.com> > > If one is a member of lots of Yahoo Group's or an owner or moderator > of one > or more groups, it's a good idea to subscribe to the official Yahoo > Group's > blog. > > http://www.YGroupsblog.com <http://www.YGroupsblog.com> > > The latest report is that all maintenance is done now so group website > outage should no longer be an issue. > > "UPDATE: Outage/site maintenance is complete! Thanks for your patience." > > The groups are still have lots of issues with late or non-delivery of > emails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 6:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47633	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high

What do you mean by high levels of nitrates and nitrites? What are the actual levels? Alex Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry� -----Original Message----- From: "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@...> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 00:59:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Nitirate high Hi all So now my ammonia is low 0 to .25ppm, but my Nitrite and Nitrate levels remain high. I've done a 10% water change two days ago and today along with extra SeaChem but they are still high. I've read I can add salt to the water to protect the fish, but wanted to check with all of you first. Plan to do another PWC tonight before bed too. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47634	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high

HI My Nitrites were 5.0 and Nitrates were 40. I did a bigger change tonight, probably 30%-35% I did post my 48 hour results but don't remember them. I know that my pH is high like 8.0 I have sea salt, but it is for cooking, not from the pet store. Is that ok? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It would be more helpful if you posted your numbers for nitrite and nitrate, > as well as other test results... but in either case, add a pinch of salt per > 10G (diluted in a cup of water first). That will help protect the fish from > nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder), at least to a certain level of > nitrite. You still want to keep your nitrites below 1.0 ppm and your > nitrates below 40 ppm. You can control this with more frequent and larger > PWC's. 10% isn't much of a PWC. Do at least 25% but not much more unless > you know your tap water parameters are pretty close to your tank's water > parameters. Do you know your 48 hour tap water baseline numbers yet? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Nitirate high > > Hi all > > So now my ammonia is low 0 to .25ppm, but my Nitrite and Nitrate levels > remain high. I've done a 10% water change two days ago and today along with > extra SeaChem but they are still high. I've read I can add salt to the > water to protect the fish, but wanted to check with all of you first. Plan > to do another PWC tonight before bed too. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/2/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high

Regular table salt is fine. There is NEVER a need to buy OVERPRICED aquarium salt. It's the same thing as regular salt. If you only have sea salt, that is fine too. It doesn't take much sodium chloride to protect against nitrite poisoning. I would probably do two pinches per 10G of sea salt since it's not pure sodium chloride. Your tank is nearly fully cycled again. You've seen your ammonia spike and come down to near zero (it will be fully cycled when it's always 0.0ppm) and now you are seeing your nitrites spike and soon they will come down to 0.0ppm all the time. For now, you need to do more frequent PWC's to keep the nitrites lower though, until they are showing 0.0ppm all the time. I would do a series of 25% PWC's, one every couple of hours to get the nitrites down closer to 1ppm. Make sure you pre-treat your tap water with dechlor. Be careful with filter maintenance and only safely clean the media in removed tank water so you do not harm the nitrifying bacteria colonies... or if the filters aren't that dirty, just leave them alone until your tank is fully cycled. The nitrates at 40ppm are not anything to be concerned about at this time. If they were over 100ppm or even a couple hundred, then it would be worry time for them but it's still good to keep them at 40ppm or less and that will happen with your regularly scheduled 25% PWC's, as needed, depending on the tank. Each tank is different but most tanks do fine with weekly PWC's. Some need it more often, some a little less often. It depends on the overall ecology and bioload of each tank. I have a long article ALL about Nitrates on my blog. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 10:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Nitirate high HI My Nitrites were 5.0 and Nitrates were 40. I did a bigger change tonight, probably 30%-35% I did post my 48 hour results but don't remember them. I know that my pH is high like 8.0 I have sea salt, but it is for cooking, not from the pet store. Is that ok? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > It would be more helpful if you posted your numbers for nitrite and > nitrate, as well as other test results... but in either case, add a > pinch of salt per 10G (diluted in a cup of water first). That will > help protect the fish from nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder), > at least to a certain level of nitrite. You still want to keep your > nitrites below 1.0 ppm and your nitrates below 40 ppm. You can > control this with more frequent and larger PWC's. 10% isn't much of a > PWC. Do at least 25% but not much more unless you know your tap water > parameters are pretty close to your tank's water parameters. Do you know your 48 hour tap water baseline numbers yet? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:59 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Nitirate high > > Hi all > > So now my ammonia is low 0 to .25ppm, but my Nitrite and Nitrate > levels remain high. I've done a 10% water change two days ago and > today along with extra SeaChem but they are still high. I've read I > can add salt to the water to protect the fish, but wanted to check > with all of you first. Plan to do another PWC tonight before bed too. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47636	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife

I read it, but what April Fools joke? I don't understand. I saw it, but what was the joke? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? > According to what Lenny said below, it was an April Fool's Joke. > > Amber > > Dora Smith wrote: >> >> Hey, what's Google's annual Topeka surprise? I saw the word Topeka on the >> web site where Google usually is. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... >> <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 8:21 PM >> Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? >> >> If you mean, the group's website was down, for the past week or so, Yahoo >> Group's has been warning all Yahoo Group's of this possible to likely >> outage >> today. Unlike Google's annual April Fools Day "Topeka" surprise, this was >> not a hoax. http://www.Google.com <http://www.Google.com> >> >> If one is a member of lots of Yahoo Group's or an owner or moderator >> of one >> or more groups, it's a good idea to subscribe to the official Yahoo >> Group's >> blog. >> >> http://www.YGroupsblog.com <http://www.YGroupsblog.com> >> >> The latest report is that all maintenance is done now so group website >> outage should no longer be an issue. >> >> "UPDATE: Outage/site maintenance is complete! Thanks for your patience." >> >> The groups are still have lots of issues with late or non-delivery of >> emails. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Donna Ransome >> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 6:55 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >> important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >> the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option >> where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47637	From: Noura	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: New Filter and Fungus questions

Hi group, I'm upgrading my old internal power filter to a new one. I previously planted a piece of polyster floss in a filter in another tank about 3 weeks ago, so I took it out now, and planted it in the new filter. The new filter (with the polyster piece in it) has been working side by side with the old filter for the last six days, in the understocked tank. Do you think I can take the old filter out now and put all the work on the new filter? Another issue, I was out of home for 3 days, so I fed the fish a double meal before I went. I came back yesterday, and gave them ALL a close examintation because I expected the white skirt tetra to lay eggs, well she hasn't, and everything else looked good. but thi morning, a fugus appeared on the mouth and tail of their Leopard Danio companion. I guess it has something to do with overfeeding them 3 days ago. Is salt treatment enough? Is 26c temperature good? Can I take the Tetras back to the community tank before they get infected or does it hold the risk of spreading the disease to the other tank? I don't think it's possible to quarantine the Tetras, all I have now is an empty 1.5 bowl without a heater. Room temperature is at 22 C and my tanks are at 26 C. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47638	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Hi Noura, If I understand you correctly, this piece of polyester floss that you planted in a filter in another tank about three weeks ago was new when you started with it (?). Is this other tank an established one that has been set up with fish for a while or is it newly set up? As I see it, if this was a new piece of polyester floss when you first used it three weeks ago, on its own (without your adding older filter media on top of it at that time in concert with it to "seed" this new media) it will probably not have a full compliment of nitrifying bacteria in it yet. As you're now running an old filter along side this new filter, you should transfer some of the old filter's media to this new filter to allow for direct transfer of the bacteria from the old filter media to the new three-week old filter media. Place the old filter media upstream of the new media so that the water running past these different medias will first pass though the older media. Your overfeeding of your fish may have caused somer water quality issues, which is now stressing your fish alllowing this infection to set in. Don't ever overfeed your fish for any reason; they can only consume just so much food at any one time, with the remainder fouling the water and/or causing elevated ammonia issues. The fish can easily go without food for three days -- and many more days after that. Sounds like you're getting a bacteria infection (Columnaris) on you fish, unless it appears as a cottony growth, but with your description of this as appearing on the mouth, I doubt if it's fungus. Salt is always helpful with any type of infection, but this alone will not be effective enough to rid your fish of Columnaris disease. I believe you said you have access to Furan II or a similar antibiotic containing Nitrofurazone, etc., at your store. You'll need to buy this if you don't have it already and start a treatment ASAP, after you first do a PWC. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47639	From: Noura	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Hello Ray, and thanks for the reply. The polyster piece was with an old sponge in an established tank (set up and running with fish for about 3 years), and now it's in the new filter with a new sponge, so can I take the old filter out of the tank now? The "stuff" is indeed cottony in color and shape on the tail, but on the mouth it appears that the ower "lip" is swollen and white and just a bit fuzzy, not as fuzzy as the spot on the tail's end, there's a tiny new spot on the pectoral fin now, quite cottony. I have a fish medication called "General Aid", the label says it cures body and mouth fugus, as well as white spot, fin rot, ulcers, gill disease, doesn't say what is the active ingredient, but the liquid is VERY green, so I suspect it's malachite green. Maybe I'll use it with salt if I couldn't find a special cure for fungus, but we don't have Nitruforazone. I'll do a 25% PWC right now, and start adding salt, then apply the medication when I get it. There are still unanswered questions that I need someone's insight about: What about the Tetras, which seem unaffected so far? And the suitable temperature? (((Can I take the Tetras back to the community tank before they get infected or does this hold the risk of spreading the disease to the other tank? I don't think it's possible to quarantine the Tetras, all I have now is an empty 1.5 bowl without a heater. Room temperature is at 22 C and my tanks are at 26 C))) Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions Hi Noura, If I understand you correctly, this piece of polyester floss that you planted in a filter in another tank about three weeks ago was new when you started with it (?). Is this other tank an established one that has been set up with fish for a while or is it newly set up? As I see it, if this was a new piece of polyester floss when you first used it three weeks ago, on its own (without your adding older filter media on top of it at that time in concert with it to "seed" this new media) it will probably not have a full compliment of nitrifying bacteria in it yet. As you're now running an old filter along side this new filter, you should transfer some of the old filter's media to this new filter to allow for direct transfer of the bacteria from the old filter media to the new three-week old filter media. Place the old filter media upstream of the new media so that the water running past these different medias will first pass though the older media. Your overfeeding of your fish may have caused somer water quality issues, which is now stressing your fish alllowing this infection to set in. Don't ever overfeed your fish for any reason; they can only consume just so much food at any one time, with the remainder fouling the water and/or causing elevated ammonia issues. The fish can easily go without food for three days -- and many more days after that. Sounds like you're getting a bacteria infection (Columnaris) on you fish, unless it appears as a cottony growth, but with your description of this as appearing on the mouth, I doubt if it's fungus. Salt is always helpful with any type of infection, but this alone will not be effective enough to rid your fish of Columnaris disease. I believe you said you have access to Furan II or a similar antibiotic containing Nitrofurazone, etc., at your store. You'll need to buy this if you don't have it already and start a treatment ASAP, after you first do a PWC. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47640	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high

Thank you for the help. I will keep up the PWCs as often as I can--this is Easter weekend and guess who hosts close to 20 people?!?!? I think I read that you cannot use iodized salt (which is what most people buy to use as table salt) is that true? I do use other salts for cooking so I have them around... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Regular table salt is fine. There is NEVER a need to buy OVERPRICED > aquarium salt. It's the same thing as regular salt. If you only have sea > salt, that is fine too. It doesn't take much sodium chloride to protect > against nitrite poisoning. I would probably do two pinches per 10G of sea > salt since it's not pure sodium chloride. > > Your tank is nearly fully cycled again. You've seen your ammonia spike and > come down to near zero (it will be fully cycled when it's always 0.0ppm) and > now you are seeing your nitrites spike and soon they will come down to > 0.0ppm all the time. > > For now, you need to do more frequent PWC's to keep the nitrites lower > though, until they are showing 0.0ppm all the time. I would do a series of > 25% PWC's, one every couple of hours to get the nitrites down closer to > 1ppm. Make sure you pre-treat your tap water with dechlor. Be careful with > filter maintenance and only safely clean the media in removed tank water so > you do not harm the nitrifying bacteria colonies... or if the filters aren't > that dirty, just leave them alone until your tank is fully cycled. > > The nitrates at 40ppm are not anything to be concerned about at this time. > If they were over 100ppm or even a couple hundred, then it would be worry > time for them but it's still good to keep them at 40ppm or less and that > will happen with your regularly scheduled 25% PWC's, as needed, depending on > the tank. Each tank is different but most tanks do fine with weekly PWC's. > Some need it more often, some a little less often. It depends on the > overall ecology and bioload of each tank. I have a long article ALL about > Nitrates on my blog. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Nitirate high > > HI > > My Nitrites were 5.0 and Nitrates were 40. I did a bigger change tonight, > probably 30%-35% I did post my 48 hour results but don't remember them. I > know that my pH is high like 8.0 > > I have sea salt, but it is for cooking, not from the pet store. Is that ok? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > It would be more helpful if you posted your numbers for nitrite and > > nitrate, as well as other test results... but in either case, add a > > pinch of salt per 10G (diluted in a cup of water first). That will > > help protect the fish from nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder), > > at least to a certain level of nitrite. You still want to keep your > > nitrites below 1.0 ppm and your nitrates below 40 ppm. You can > > control this with more frequent and larger PWC's. 10% isn't much of a > > PWC. Do at least 25% but not much more unless you know your tap water > > parameters are pretty close to your tank's water parameters. Do you know > your 48 hour tap water baseline numbers yet? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Nitirate high > > > > Hi all > > > > So now my ammonia is low 0 to .25ppm, but my Nitrite and Nitrate > > levels remain high. I've done a 10% water change two days ago and > > today along with extra SeaChem but they are still high. I've read I > > can add salt to the water to protect the fish, but wanted to check > > with all of you first. Plan to do another PWC tonight before bed too. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47641	From: northernlace1979	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: 55 gallon aquarium for sale

I have a 55 gallon Aquarium that i dont need anymore now that i have my 125 gallon going. I used it as a holding tank and it has never had rocks in it Also i only had water and 4 fish in it for a month.It is a black trim tank.I do not have a lid for it though.I have a brown strip light for it and a oak 3 door stand for it. I am asking $150.00 for it. Again must sell as i am not needing it nor have the room for it and need the money for my dental procedure. I live in rochester indiana. Again im trying to get all items gone as soon as possible. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47642	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high

Iodized salt is fine to use at the levels we might need in freshwater tanks. There is a slight bit more concern when using it at higher levels (3+ teaspoons per gallon or 0.3% level) in outdoor ponds... but that is more about the anti-caking agents used in table salt and how the Sun affects them, but at the pinch per 10G level and not exposed to the Sun, it's such a miniscule amount and you probably get more nefarious chemicals from your tap water than you would ever get from that little amount of salt. Save these two pages and read them when you get time. Aquarium related and well referenced - http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml Pond related, written by a Veterinarian - http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Kebus_Salt_Treatments.html I have plenty more articles about Salt Myth's on my blog. Oh yeah... before they can have the Easter egg hunt, set up a bucket brigade to help with your PWC's. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 11:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Nitirate high Thank you for the help. I will keep up the PWCs as often as I can--this is Easter weekend and guess who hosts close to 20 people?!?!? I think I read that you cannot use iodized salt (which is what most people buy to use as table salt) is that true? I do use other salts for cooking so I have them around... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Regular table salt is fine. There is NEVER a need to buy OVERPRICED > aquarium salt. It's the same thing as regular salt. If you only have > sea salt, that is fine too. It doesn't take much sodium chloride to > protect against nitrite poisoning. I would probably do two pinches > per 10G of sea salt since it's not pure sodium chloride. > > Your tank is nearly fully cycled again. You've seen your ammonia > spike and come down to near zero (it will be fully cycled when it's > always 0.0ppm) and now you are seeing your nitrites spike and soon > they will come down to 0.0ppm all the time. > > For now, you need to do more frequent PWC's to keep the nitrites lower > though, until they are showing 0.0ppm all the time. I would do a > series of 25% PWC's, one every couple of hours to get the nitrites > down closer to 1ppm. Make sure you pre-treat your tap water with > dechlor. Be careful with filter maintenance and only safely clean the > media in removed tank water so you do not harm the nitrifying bacteria > colonies... or if the filters aren't that dirty, just leave them alone until your tank is fully cycled. > > The nitrates at 40ppm are not anything to be concerned about at this time. > If they were over 100ppm or even a couple hundred, then it would be > worry time for them but it's still good to keep them at 40ppm or less > and that will happen with your regularly scheduled 25% PWC's, as > needed, depending on the tank. Each tank is different but most tanks do fine with weekly PWC's. > Some need it more often, some a little less often. It depends on the > overall ecology and bioload of each tank. I have a long article ALL > about Nitrates on my blog. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Nitirate high > > HI > > My Nitrites were 5.0 and Nitrates were 40. I did a bigger change > tonight, probably 30%-35% I did post my 48 hour results but don't > remember them. I know that my pH is high like 8.0 > > I have sea salt, but it is for cooking, not from the pet store. Is that ok? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > It would be more helpful if you posted your numbers for nitrite and > > nitrate, as well as other test results... but in either case, add a > > pinch of salt per 10G (diluted in a cup of water first). That will > > help protect the fish from nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder), > > at least to a certain level of nitrite. You still want to keep your > > nitrites below 1.0 ppm and your nitrates below 40 ppm. You can > > control this with more frequent and larger PWC's. 10% isn't much of > > a PWC. Do at least 25% but not much more unless you know your tap > > water parameters are pretty close to your tank's water parameters. > > Do you know > your 48 hour tap water baseline numbers yet? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Nitirate high > > > > Hi all > > > > So now my ammonia is low 0 to .25ppm, but my Nitrite and Nitrate > > levels remain high. I've done a 10% water change two days ago and > > today along with extra SeaChem but they are still high. I've read I > > can add salt to the water to protect the fish, but wanted to check > > with all of you first. Plan to do another PWC tonight before bed too.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47643	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today?

The explanation, along with other Google April Fool's shenanigans, can be found here: http://www.networkworld.com/slideshows/2010/040110-google-april-fools-hoaxes .html?source=NWWNLE_nlt_daily_pm_2010-04-01#slide1 http://tinyurl.com/yagguak \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 10:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? According to what Lenny said below, it was an April Fool's Joke. Amber Dora Smith wrote: > > Hey, what's Google's annual Topeka surprise? I saw the word Topeka on the > web site where Google usually is. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@... > <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 8:21 PM > Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? > > If you mean, the group's website was down, for the past week or so, Yahoo > Group's has been warning all Yahoo Group's of this possible to likely > outage > today. Unlike Google's annual April Fools Day "Topeka" surprise, this was > not a hoax. http://www.Google.com <http://www.Google.com> > > If one is a member of lots of Yahoo Group's or an owner or moderator > of one > or more groups, it's a good idea to subscribe to the official Yahoo > Group's > blog. > > http://www.YGroupsblog.com <http://www.YGroupsblog.com> > > The latest report is that all maintenance is done now so group website > outage should no longer be an issue. > > "UPDATE: Outage/site maintenance is complete! Thanks for your patience." > > The groups are still have lots of issues with late or non-delivery of > emails. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 6:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] What Happened to AquaticLife Today? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47644	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Nitrite Nitirate high

The iodized salt can be used, but I'd not rely on it as a permanent solution. What you can use for both your tanks and the table would be kosher salt, which does not contain added iodine. You should be able to find it at your local supermarket. If you do not see kosher on the bag, it may be labeled as canning salt, but will undoubtedly have one of the kosher symbols on it. Just on the off chance you do not know what the kosher symbols are, here is a page that lists those in use in various places in the world. http://www.kosher-directory.com/supervisions.htm \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 12:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Nitirate high Thank you for the help. I will keep up the PWCs as often as I can--this is Easter weekend and guess who hosts close to 20 people?!?!? I think I read that you cannot use iodized salt (which is what most people buy to use as table salt) is that true? I do use other salts for cooking so I have them around... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Regular table salt is fine. There is NEVER a need to buy OVERPRICED > aquarium salt. It's the same thing as regular salt. If you only have sea > salt, that is fine too. It doesn't take much sodium chloride to protect > against nitrite poisoning. I would probably do two pinches per 10G of sea > salt since it's not pure sodium chloride. > > Your tank is nearly fully cycled again. You've seen your ammonia spike and > come down to near zero (it will be fully cycled when it's always 0.0ppm) and > now you are seeing your nitrites spike and soon they will come down to > 0.0ppm all the time. > > For now, you need to do more frequent PWC's to keep the nitrites lower > though, until they are showing 0.0ppm all the time. I would do a series of > 25% PWC's, one every couple of hours to get the nitrites down closer to > 1ppm. Make sure you pre-treat your tap water with dechlor. Be careful with > filter maintenance and only safely clean the media in removed tank water so > you do not harm the nitrifying bacteria colonies... or if the filters aren't > that dirty, just leave them alone until your tank is fully cycled. > > The nitrates at 40ppm are not anything to be concerned about at this time. > If they were over 100ppm or even a couple hundred, then it would be worry > time for them but it's still good to keep them at 40ppm or less and that > will happen with your regularly scheduled 25% PWC's, as needed, depending on > the tank. Each tank is different but most tanks do fine with weekly PWC's. > Some need it more often, some a little less often. It depends on the > overall ecology and bioload of each tank. I have a long article ALL about > Nitrates on my blog. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 10:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Nitrite Nitirate high > > HI > > My Nitrites were 5.0 and Nitrates were 40. I did a bigger change tonight, > probably 30%-35% I did post my 48 hour results but don't remember them. I > know that my pH is high like 8.0 > > I have sea salt, but it is for cooking, not from the pet store. Is that ok? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@> > wrote: > > > > It would be more helpful if you posted your numbers for nitrite and > > nitrate, as well as other test results... but in either case, add a > > pinch of salt per 10G (diluted in a cup of water first). That will > > help protect the fish from nitrite poisoning (brown blood disorder), > > at least to a certain level of nitrite. You still want to keep your > > nitrites below 1.0 ppm and your nitrates below 40 ppm. You can > > control this with more frequent and larger PWC's. 10% isn't much of a > > PWC. Do at least 25% but not much more unless you know your tap water > > parameters are pretty close to your tank's water parameters. Do you know > your 48 hour tap water baseline numbers yet? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of twin_chicken_mama > > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:59 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Nitrite Nitirate high > > > > Hi all > > > > So now my ammonia is low 0 to .25ppm, but my Nitrite and Nitrate > > levels remain high. I've done a 10% water change two days ago and > > today along with extra SeaChem but they are still high. I've read I > > can add salt to the water to protect the fish, but wanted to check > > with all of you first. Plan to do another PWC tonight before bed too. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47645	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Noura, As you see, I don't always have the time to keep on top of things on the internet throughout the day, although I do try to check out what's going on at least a few times in the interum. I did not expect you to go ahead and use a medication that no one here supported, if you didn't have a nitrofuran-type medication available near you, especially since you usually ask here first. I don't know if you've used the medication (General Aid) you have on hand now, without issue at any earlier time with any of your Tetras -- or whether you're treating your present Tetras at this time -- but you should know that if this medication does contain Malachite Green as you suspect, that it should be used at half strength as Tetras do not tolerate full doses of Malachite Green very well; it's toxic too them at this concentration. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47646	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Fungus on heterandria formosa

I have long wanted some heterandria formosa (dwarf livebearers), and recently found some on Aquabid. They are not in stores, you have to get them from individual sellers, apparently. They were sent to me as a group of seven, and all arrived fine except one who had fungus - was covered in little tufts of fungus. I applied the salt treatment that Ray taught me for when my baby rams had fungus, and I have them all in a 5 g quarantine tank. It's been three days now, and all the tufts are gone except one tuft on the tail. The other tufts on the body fell off right away, but this one tail tuft isn't budging. Also, this fish was really sick when it arrived, very listless and would not eat. After a few hours in the salt, he was moving better and now is acting perfectly normal and eating as much as I let him. My question is, do I need to keep treating him for this tail tuft? Or might this be some lingering thing that will go away over time without more treatment? I think I have a fungal medication in my basement but would rather not have to use it. Thanks for any feedback. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47647	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question

First, Thanks for the Albino Frog answers. I never did get a chance to write back.....I saved it for reference and to answer back.....but I didn't until desperate measures called again! Does anyone have a MarinLand Penguin Filter? Model 100/Up to 20 gallons. I am trying to set it up on a 10 gallon tank, however the tubes are way longer than my tank. Could I remove the "Mid-Level Intake Strainer" and "Extension Tube" and keep it shortened. Do I really need the extra extension? Do I really need to control the intake? Thanks for all who can help! Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47648	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question

I don't have the 100 but I do have a model 200. You can remove one or more extensions to reach the preferred intake depth for you. I personally like the intake to be as deep into the tank as possible to create better water circulation... and because most of the detritus is down near the bottom or on the bottom of a tank. For tanks where I have two filter systems running on them, I'll have one deep and one shallow. For a single HOB on a 10G tank, I would move the HOB to one end so the waterfall is close to the glass on one end. This would then create a nice circulation across the front, to the other end and then back along the back of the tank, back to the intake. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question First, Thanks for the Albino Frog answers. I never did get a chance to write back.....I saved it for reference and to answer back.....but I didn't until desperate measures called again! Does anyone have a MarinLand Penguin Filter? Model 100/Up to 20 gallons. I am trying to set it up on a 10 gallon tank, however the tubes are way longer than my tank. Could I remove the "Mid-Level Intake Strainer" and "Extension Tube" and keep it shortened. Do I really need the extra extension? Do I really need to control the intake? Thanks for all who can help! Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47649	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question

I have two of them, I think. It's been awhile. They take size A filters. I think I had that problem in the 10 gallon that I formerly had. This is how one of the tubes came to be trimmed down. You can cut them. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "__A_YAHOO_USER__" <joaniee2003@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 8:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question First, Thanks for the Albino Frog answers. I never did get a chance to write back.....I saved it for reference and to answer back.....but I didn't until desperate measures called again! Does anyone have a MarinLand Penguin Filter? Model 100/Up to 20 gallons. I am trying to set it up on a 10 gallon tank, however the tubes are way longer than my tank. Could I remove the "Mid-Level Intake Strainer" and "Extension Tube" and keep it shortened. Do I really need the extra extension? Do I really need to control the intake? Thanks for all who can help! Joanie ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47650	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Lainey, Do not take this remaining fungus tuft lightly. I'm glad to hear that this fish is doing much better, but you needs to continue treating it -- perhaps in a separate container. As this species is one that comes from a salt marsh environment, it can tolerate high levels of salt (up to brackish conditions) even though it doesn't need it. Increase the salt content of its water slowly and after the elimination of the fungus, decrease the salt in the same manner. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47651	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

As you suspected Ray, I didn't use any medication yet, I was waiting for you or someone else to guide my steps :) I just changed 25% and started adding salt (1/2 tbs per 5 gallons over the course of 16 hours, and continuing to add gradually). I don't see any changes to the spots, but they did not spread further either. Why isn't malachite green supported? what are its problems, other than toxicity to Tetras in full doses? The Tetras were exposed to this "General Aid" at full dose one week ago, because the female's fins were damaged, I didn't notice any health or toxicity issues with the two tetras. Does it mean that it's safe to use this medication again? or could they still be poisoned? I believe you're suggesting to leave the Tetras in the tank with the affected fish, and treat them as well. I'm trying to find if there's another medication for fungus in the stores here, but they're not answering their phones.. what a luck! The problem with these chinese medications that we inport here, is that they don't mention the active ingredients, which is scientifically wrong and should not be allowed IMO. But what can you do?! I'll keep searching for other medications specialised for fugus. And get back to you this evening (noon at your time). Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions Noura, As you see, I don't always have the time to keep on top of things on the internet throughout the day, although I do try to check out what's going on at least a few times in the interum. I did not expect you to go ahead and use a medication that no one here supported, if you didn't have a nitrofuran-type medication available near you, especially since you usually ask here first. I don't know if you've used the medication (General Aid) you have on hand now, without issue at any earlier time with any of your Tetras -- or whether you're treating your present Tetras at this time -- but you should know that if this medication does contain Malachite Green as you suspect, that it should be used at half strength as Tetras do not tolerate full doses of Malachite Green very well; it's toxic too them at this concentration. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47652	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Noura, I left out addressing the Tetras in your tank, which don't have any disease. If they can be kept in the tank they're now in without being subjected to a medication that could harm them, it would be fine (and preferable) to keep them where they are. As you've used General Aid with them before without any harmful effects, they should be alright. Let us know how this medication affects (discolors) the water. If, by your observation, this General Aid may contain Malachite Green, either use it at half-strength or transfer these fish to another tank -- keeping an eye on them. I believe the PWC in itself will create a better environment for all the fish in this tank, since it was most likely less than ideal conditions that developed that caused the onset of these diseases, and moving these fish to another tank (that has good conditions) should just serve to sustain their health. When moving them, as with any fish, acclimate them over to this other aquarium slowly if their is much of a difference in water parameters. A PWC in your other tank would be helpful in ensuring better water quality when they are transferred. I don't see a problem with "transferring" a disease with them, even though they are coming from a tank where some fish are infected (as the result of poorer water conditions). These pathogens are present in most aquariums (undoubtedly even in your other community tank), but will take the opportunity to invade a stressed fish in poorer conditions. Healthy fish are not at risk if they aren't stressed. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47653	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Hi, I could talk to the fish stores owners, but they don't have anything special for treating fungus right now. Should I go ahead with the General Aid (could contain Malachite Green) at half dose? or should I stick to the salt treatment alone? Thank you for helping, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Cc: Sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions As you suspected Ray, I didn't use any medication yet, I was waiting for you or someone else to guide my steps :) I just changed 25% and started adding salt (1/2 tbs per 5 gallons over the course of 16 hours, and continuing to add gradually). I don't see any changes to the spots, but they did not spread further either. Why isn't malachite green supported? what are its problems, other than toxicity to Tetras in full doses? The Tetras were exposed to this "General Aid" at full dose one week ago, because the female's fins were damaged, I didn't notice any health or toxicity issues with the two tetras. Does it mean that it's safe to use this medication again? or could they still be poisoned? I believe you're suggesting to leave the Tetras in the tank with the affected fish, and treat them as well. I'm trying to find if there's another medication for fungus in the stores here, but they're not answering their phones.. what a luck! The problem with these chinese medications that we inport here, is that they don't mention the active ingredients, which is scientifically wrong and should not be allowed IMO. But what can you do?! I'll keep searching for other medications specialised for fugus. And get back to you this evening (noon at your time). Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions Noura, As you see, I don't always have the time to keep on top of things on the internet throughout the day, although I do try to check out what's going on at least a few times in the interum. I did not expect you to go ahead and use a medication that no one here supported, if you didn't have a nitrofuran-type medication available near you, especially since you usually ask here first. I don't know if you've used the medication (General Aid) you have on hand now, without issue at any earlier time with any of your Tetras -- or whether you're treating your present Tetras at this time -- but you should know that if this medication does contain Malachite Green as you suspect, that it should be used at half strength as Tetras do not tolerate full doses of Malachite Green very well; it's toxic too them at this concentration. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47654	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47655	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

As you've already used General Aid without having any problems with your Tetras, I'd recommend using it along with the increase in salt, at half-strength for now. Again, let us know what color green the water becomes. This should tell us (and you) which of the two previously mentioned medications are in this General Aid. Could just be that even if the General Aid contains Malachite Green, that it may be only part of the entire content of this medication, having other active medications in it as well. In that case, this may explain why your Tetras weren't adversely affected by it before as it may only be a "half-strength" now, along with other ingredients. See how your half-dosing affects both of these diseases. Malachite Green has been successful in treating some Columnaris cases, but is not the medication of choice. While General Aid (if it's containing Malachite Green) should be effective against Fungus even at half-strength (Malachite Green recommended by Kordon as effective against Fungus and Columnaris), you may need to increase it to full strength to combat the Columnaris disease. If it appears that the General Aid is Acriflavin instead, just use it at full strength right from the beginning. Too bad they don't list the ingredients in their medications. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47656	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Ray - I am thinking one tablepoon per gallon would be my upper limit for brackish, is this right? At this time I am up to three tablespoons per FIVE gallons. Can you tell me the dose where I should stop - IE upper limit for this fish? Also, should I remove the six who do not have the fungus or just treat them along with this one with the tuft? I'm reading that the fungus probably isn't contagious but since they are all in a quarantine at 3 tablespoons per five gallons water, maybe just leave them all together throughout the treatment? I don't want to pull the non-fungus ones out and shock them by putting them in fresh water suddenly now. Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 4, 2010, at 2:28 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Do not take this remaining fungus tuft lightly. I'm glad to > hear > that this fish is doing much better, but you needs to continue > treating it > -- perhaps in a separate container. As this species is one that > comes from a > salt marsh environment, it can tolerate high levels of salt (up to > brackish > conditions) even though it doesn't need it. Increase the salt > content of > its water slowly and after the elimination of the fungus, decrease > the salt > in the same manner. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47657	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question/ Dora & Lenny

Thank you both for your replies. I will try to incorporate both suggestions. Since I cannot use the tube long at all I will try cutting it down to still keep it as low as possible in the tank. Joanie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I don't have the 100 but I do have a model 200. You can remove one or more > extensions to reach the preferred intake depth for you. > > I personally like the intake to be as deep into the tank as possible to > create better water circulation... and because most of the detritus is down > near the bottom or on the bottom of a tank. For tanks where I have two > filter systems running on them, I'll have one deep and one shallow. > > For a single HOB on a 10G tank, I would move the HOB to one end so the > waterfall is close to the glass on one end. This would then create a nice > circulation across the front, to the other end and then back along the back > of the tank, back to the intake. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 9:38 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Marineland Penguin Power Filter Question > > First, Thanks for the Albino Frog answers. I never did get a chance to write > back.....I saved it for reference and to answer back.....but I didn't until > desperate measures called again! > > Does anyone have a MarinLand Penguin Filter? Model 100/Up to 20 gallons. > > I am trying to set it up on a 10 gallon tank, however the tubes are way > longer than my tank. > > Could I remove the "Mid-Level Intake Strainer" and "Extension Tube" and keep > it shortened. Do I really need the extra extension? Do I really need to > control the intake? > > Thanks for all who can help! > Joanie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47658	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

In case Ray doesn't reply right away.... Freshwater = No Salt (or very little) Saltwater = Around 35 teaspoons per gallon (11-12 tablespoons per gallon) Note that this is not ALL NaCL (Sodium Chloride) but rather a mix of "salts" that make up Sea Salt and there are different mixes of Sea Salt depending on the area. Brackish = Anywhere in between, depending on the fish and tidal actions. This article, http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html, has every where from 1-2 tablespoons per gallon (3-6 teaspoons per gallon), up to seven tablespoons per gallon (21 teaspoons per gallon), depending on the type of brackish fish tank that one is setting up... an estuary, brackish river or mangrove swamp. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml is a very detailed and well referenced article all about salt. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 10:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Ray - I am thinking one tablepoon per gallon would be my upper limit for brackish, is this right? At this time I am up to three tablespoons per FIVE gallons. Can you tell me the dose where I should stop - IE upper limit for this fish? Also, should I remove the six who do not have the fungus or just treat them along with this one with the tuft? I'm reading that the fungus probably isn't contagious but since they are all in a quarantine at 3 tablespoons per five gallons water, maybe just leave them all together throughout the treatment? I don't want to pull the non-fungus ones out and shock them by putting them in fresh water suddenly now. Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 4, 2010, at 2:28 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Do not take this remaining fungus tuft lightly. I'm glad to > hear that this fish is doing much better, but you needs to continue > treating it > -- perhaps in a separate container. As this species is one that comes > from a salt marsh environment, it can tolerate high levels of salt (up > to brackish > conditions) even though it doesn't need it. Increase the salt content > of its water slowly and after the elimination of the fungus, decrease > the salt in the same manner. Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47659	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

OK, thanks, Lenny. Since the fungus tuft wasn't budging with 3 tablespoons per G I increased to 4 tablespoons per G today...we'll see. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 4, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > In case Ray doesn't reply right away.... > > Freshwater = No Salt (or very little) > > Saltwater = Around 35 teaspoons per gallon (11-12 tablespoons per > gallon) > Note that this is not ALL NaCL (Sodium Chloride) but rather a mix > of "salts" > that make up Sea Salt and there are different mixes of Sea Salt > depending on > the area. > > Brackish = Anywhere in between, depending on the fish and tidal > actions. > > This article, http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/ > brackish.html, has > every where from 1-2 tablespoons per gallon (3-6 teaspoons per > gallon), up > to seven tablespoons per gallon (21 teaspoons per gallon), > depending on the > type of brackish fish tank that one is setting up... an estuary, > brackish > river or mangrove swamp. > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml is a very > detailed > and well referenced article all about salt. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 10:01 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa > > Ray - > > I am thinking one tablepoon per gallon would be my upper limit for > brackish, > is this right? > > At this time I am up to three tablespoons per FIVE gallons. > > Can you tell me the dose where I should stop - IE upper limit for > this fish? > > Also, should I remove the six who do not have the fungus or just > treat them > along with this one with the tuft? I'm reading that the fungus > probably > isn't contagious but since they are all in a quarantine at 3 > tablespoons per > five gallons water, maybe just leave them all together throughout the > treatment? I don't want to pull the non-fungus ones out and shock > them by > putting them in fresh water suddenly now. > > Thank you! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 4, 2010, at 2:28 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, Do not take this remaining fungus tuft lightly. I'm glad to > > hear that this fish is doing much better, but you needs to continue > > treating it > > -- perhaps in a separate container. As this species is one that > comes > > from a salt marsh environment, it can tolerate high levels of > salt (up > > to brackish > > conditions) even though it doesn't need it. Increase the salt > content > > of its water slowly and after the elimination of the fungus, > decrease > > the salt in the same manner. Ray </HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47660	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

SORRY, wrote this wrong: I was keeping them at 3 tablespoons salt per FIVE gallons and today raised it to 4 tablespoons salt per five gallons Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 4, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > OK, thanks, Lenny. > > Since the fungus tuft wasn't budging with 3 tablespoons per G I > increased to 4 tablespoons per G today...we'll see. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 4, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> In case Ray doesn't reply right away.... >> >> Freshwater = No Salt (or very little) >> >> Saltwater = Around 35 teaspoons per gallon (11-12 tablespoons per >> gallon) >> Note that this is not ALL NaCL (Sodium Chloride) but rather a mix >> of "salts" >> that make up Sea Salt and there are different mixes of Sea Salt >> depending on >> the area. >> >> Brackish = Anywhere in between, depending on the fish and tidal >> actions. >> >> This article, http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/ >> brackish.html, has >> every where from 1-2 tablespoons per gallon (3-6 teaspoons per >> gallon), up >> to seven tablespoons per gallon (21 teaspoons per gallon), >> depending on the >> type of brackish fish tank that one is setting up... an estuary, >> brackish >> river or mangrove swamp. >> >> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml is a very >> detailed >> and well referenced article all about salt. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 10:01 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa >> >> Ray - >> >> I am thinking one tablepoon per gallon would be my upper limit for >> brackish, >> is this right? >> >> At this time I am up to three tablespoons per FIVE gallons. >> >> Can you tell me the dose where I should stop - IE upper limit for >> this fish? >> >> Also, should I remove the six who do not have the fungus or just >> treat them >> along with this one with the tuft? I'm reading that the fungus >> probably >> isn't contagious but since they are all in a quarantine at 3 >> tablespoons per >> five gallons water, maybe just leave them all together throughout the >> treatment? I don't want to pull the non-fungus ones out and shock >> them by >> putting them in fresh water suddenly now. >> >> Thank you! >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Apr 4, 2010, at 2:28 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >> >>> Lainey, Do not take this remaining fungus tuft lightly. I'm glad to >>> hear that this fish is doing much better, but you needs to continue >>> treating it >>> -- perhaps in a separate container. As this species is one that >> comes >>> from a salt marsh environment, it can tolerate high levels of >> salt (up >>> to brackish >>> conditions) even though it doesn't need it. Increase the salt >> content >>> of its water slowly and after the elimination of the fungus, >> decrease >>> the salt in the same manner. Ray </HTML> >>> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47661	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

I read it the right way, even though you forgot the 5 in front of the G in both references. Once you get up to 1 tablespoon per gallon (equal to 3 teaspoons per gallon), you are only at a normal-high medicinal salt level for freshwater fish.... some even go up to 5 teaspoons per gallon for high medicinal salt level treatment for freshwater fish. Your next step would be raising it up to 4 teaspoons per gallon, then 5, then 6... and see how the fish and the disease is doing at each stage. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 11:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa SORRY, wrote this wrong: I was keeping them at 3 tablespoons salt per FIVE gallons and today raised it to 4 tablespoons salt per five gallons Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 4, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > OK, thanks, Lenny. > > Since the fungus tuft wasn't budging with 3 tablespoons per G I > increased to 4 tablespoons per G today...we'll see. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 4, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> In case Ray doesn't reply right away.... >> >> Freshwater = No Salt (or very little) >> >> Saltwater = Around 35 teaspoons per gallon (11-12 tablespoons per >> gallon) >> Note that this is not ALL NaCL (Sodium Chloride) but rather a mix of >> "salts" >> that make up Sea Salt and there are different mixes of Sea Salt >> depending on the area. >> >> Brackish = Anywhere in between, depending on the fish and tidal >> actions. >> >> This article, http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/ >> brackish.html, has >> every where from 1-2 tablespoons per gallon (3-6 teaspoons per >> gallon), up to seven tablespoons per gallon (21 teaspoons per >> gallon), depending on the type of brackish fish tank that one is >> setting up... an estuary, brackish river or mangrove swamp. >> >> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml is a very >> detailed and well referenced article all about salt. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 10:01 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa >> >> Ray - >> >> I am thinking one tablepoon per gallon would be my upper limit for >> brackish, is this right? >> >> At this time I am up to three tablespoons per FIVE gallons. >> >> Can you tell me the dose where I should stop - IE upper limit for >> this fish? >> >> Also, should I remove the six who do not have the fungus or just >> treat them along with this one with the tuft? I'm reading that the >> fungus probably isn't contagious but since they are all in a >> quarantine at 3 tablespoons per five gallons water, maybe just leave >> them all together throughout the treatment? I don't want to pull the >> non-fungus ones out and shock them by putting them in fresh water >> suddenly now. >> >> Thank you! >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Apr 4, 2010, at 2:28 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >> >>> Lainey, Do not take this remaining fungus tuft lightly. I'm glad to >>> hear that this fish is doing much better, but you needs to continue >>> treating it >>> -- perhaps in a separate container. As this species is one that >> comes >>> from a salt marsh environment, it can tolerate high levels of >> salt (up >>> to brackish >>> conditions) even though it doesn't need it. Increase the salt >> content >>> of its water slowly and after the elimination of the fungus, >> decrease >>> the salt in the same manner. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47662	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Hi Ray, I recall very clearly that the color generated by this "General Aid" in the water was florescent green, no doubt about it. So I'll keep adding salt till it reaches 1tbs/5gallons by tomorrow, and will apply the General Aid full strength right now. I'll also keep changing 15% of that tank's water every other day. Since transferring the "not affected" Tetras doesn't hold risk, then I'll take them back to the community tank, with very slow acclimation as they are in salty water now. They are not fighting anyway, neither trying to breed. Thanks for everything Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions As you've already used General Aid without having any problems with your Tetras, I'd recommend using it along with the increase in salt, at half-strength for now. Again, let us know what color green the water becomes. This should tell us (and you) which of the two previously mentioned medications are in this General Aid. Could just be that even if the General Aid contains Malachite Green, that it may be only part of the entire content of this medication, having other active medications in it as well. In that case, this may explain why your Tetras weren't adversely affected by it before as it may only be a "half-strength" now, along with other ingredients. See how your half-dosing affects both of these diseases. Malachite Green has been successful in treating some Columnaris cases, but is not the medication of choice. While General Aid (if it's containing Malachite Green) should be effective against Fungus even at half-strength (Malachite Green recommended by Kordon as effective against Fungus and Columnaris), you may need to increase it to full strength to combat the Columnaris disease. If it appears that the General Aid is Acriflavin instead, just use it at full strength right from the beginning. Too bad they don't list the ingredients in their medications. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47663	From: melindas	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: I think my new fish is sick....

I bought 2 new Molly's today one black the other silver, and I think the black one all ready had Ick or something. Can Ick Appear in a hour? I put some Quickcure and some Pimafix into my tank just in case (the mix of the two seems to get rid of the Ick than just the Quckcure by its self.)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47664	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Need Shopping Advise

Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47665	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Fish Suggestion Needed

Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47666	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Add to that a cheap but reliable HOB filter for a 20 g tank. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:16 AM Subject: Need Shopping Advise Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47667	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

I would avoid the chinese algae eaters like the plague. Stick with a small pleco, like a bushy nose. -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: AMejia1976@... To: Aquatic Life Group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 5:14 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47668	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Hi Noura, I have purchased from this seller numerous times. I am still using the same 5lb box of Cloram-x for years and years now. Not sure how customs will like a powder based product being imported though. The aqua clear filters are excellent and you can use the same sponge filter over and over. You can fit two sponges in the back so consider an extra sponge for it. Much cheaper than replacing filter cartridges. http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html 1 lb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water 5 lb Bucket: $34.50 Each Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water CLORAM-X: Cloram-X is a unique, dry powder, water conditioner that has been scientifically formulated to remove, and thereby detoxify, ammonia, chlorine and chloramines from water for use in all types of fish and aquatic invertebrate culture. ClorAm-X® should be used (1) when conditioning new water for aquariums, tanks, ponds, and live-haul containers, (2) after or during water additions, (3) before adding new plants, invertebrates, fishes or amphibians to an existing aquarium, tank, or pond, and (4) to live-haul containers, during transportation of live fishes, amphibians, or aquatic invertebrates, to control and eliminate ammonia in the shipping water. AQUACLEAR 30: http://www.kensfish.com/powerfiltersaquaclear.html Provides mechanical and biological filtration for both fresh and salt water. Include sponge and carbon bag to get you started. Filter 150 gph and is rated for aquariums up to 30 gallons. $29.99 EACH -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 5:21 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise Add to that a cheap but reliable HOB filter for a 20 g tank. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:16 AM Subject: Need Shopping Advise Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47669	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Lenny & Dora

Excellent you two. Thanks! It was so easy to cut the tube and the filter's running great! Thanks! Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47670	From: Noura	Date: 4/4/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Are these reasonably reliable? API 5 in 1 Aquarium Test Strips http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 Water Testing The quick and accurate way to test for pH, Nitrite, Nitrate, General Hardness and Carbonate Hardness. Desiccant-lined tube, with snap-tight cap, provides maximum moisture protection for accurate results. a.. Highly precise color charts b.. Dip directly into aquarium – no separate vial needed c.. Includes information on how to correct unsafe water conditions d.. 25 strips e.. For fresh and salt water Thanks for the links Mike, I'm trying to see if I can get all I need from this seller. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise Hi Noura, I have purchased from this seller numerous times. I am still using the same 5lb box of Cloram-x for years and years now. Not sure how customs will like a powder based product being imported though. The aqua clear filters are excellent and you can use the same sponge filter over and over. You can fit two sponges in the back so consider an extra sponge for it. Much cheaper than replacing filter cartridges. http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html 1 lb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water 5 lb Bucket: $34.50 Each Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water CLORAM-X: Cloram-X is a unique, dry powder, water conditioner that has been scientifically formulated to remove, and thereby detoxify, ammonia, chlorine and chloramines from water for use in all types of fish and aquatic invertebrate culture. ClorAm-X® should be used (1) when conditioning new water for aquariums, tanks, ponds, and live-haul containers, (2) after or during water additions, (3) before adding new plants, invertebrates, fishes or amphibians to an existing aquarium, tank, or pond, and (4) to live-haul containers, during transportation of live fishes, amphibians, or aquatic invertebrates, to control and eliminate ammonia in the shipping water. AQUACLEAR 30: http://www.kensfish.com/powerfiltersaquaclear.html Provides mechanical and biological filtration for both fresh and salt water. Include sponge and carbon bag to get you started. Filter 150 gph and is rated for aquariums up to 30 gallons. $29.99 EACH -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 5:21 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise Add to that a cheap but reliable HOB filter for a 20 g tank. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:16 AM Subject: Need Shopping Advise Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47671	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: I think my new fish is sick....

As you may know, Ich looks like salt sprinkles on a fish. It can start off with a single spot and spread until a fish is covered with spots. I've never seen the idea of mixing Pimafix with any Ich cure since Pimafix is an antifungal and Ich is a parasite but at least Pimafix is pretty mild and shouldn't cause any issues. It's usually not good to mix meds unless you know them to be safe together. I know that API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) makes Pimafix and has their own Ich treatment called Super Ick Cure and they have tested their own products and claim that mixing their own products is safe. Super Ick Cure liquid is based on Malachite Green as the active ingredient. Super Ick Cure powder is based on Nitrofurazone and Malachite Green. Quick Cure is from Aquarium Products and is based on Malachite Green and Formalin as the active ingredients. Malachite Green will stain the tank's silicone so do not be alarmed if/when this happens. API also has formalin based medications and since they have tested their own products mixed together, probably, it's safe to use Quick Cure mixed with Pimafix. Where did you get this tip or idea to mix them? I would have thought that adding Melafix, which is an antibacterial, would be a more common tip so that the Melafix could help prevent secondary infections from when the Ich parasites leave the fish and leave behind a small puncture wound. If you look back in our archives of messages, you'll find that we usually recommend just using plain salt and raising the tank's temperature to kill of an Ich infestation but other medications also work. As far as adding Pimafix to make the Quick Cure work faster, you should still plan on treating for the full treatment cycle. Here's a pretty good article about treating Ich and it covers most of the common treatment methods and explains the life cycle of Ich so you'll know why it's important to treat for the full term. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 6:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I think my new fish is sick.... I bought 2 new Molly's today one black the other silver, and I think the black one all ready had Ick or something. Can Ick Appear in a hour? I put some Quickcure and some Pimafix into my tank just in case (the mix of the two seems to get rid of the Ick than just the Quckcure by its self.)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47672	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

I use http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com aka http://www.FosterAndSmithAquatics.com to do a lot of my online shopping. They have competitive pricing and carry most popular products. For a dechlorinator, I like API's Tap Water Conditioner, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4038 which treats for chlorine/chloramine and also treats for heavy metals. The 16 oz. bottle, for one of the lowest online prices, only $5.69, will treat 9,600 gallons so it should last you a few years, even with all your PWC's. They also have the Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+4 371&pcatid=4371, which tests for all of the basic tests you mentioned. It's only $16.89. Should last you a year without a problem. The Seachem Ammonia Alert, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4387 is listed for $6.29. Lasts for over a year. They have flat rate shipping price of $8.99 right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47673	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually much smaller than BN's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are pretty good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get pretty big, around 10" to 11". http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47674	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

DrsFosterSmith.com also has many HOB filters available on this page. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/aquarium-filter/aquarium -power-filter/ps/c/3578/3579/3608 (if link breaks, just click on the Filters>Power Filters link on the left side of their main page). Several of those filters are OK but I'd go with the Hagen AquaClear filter, either the 100 or 150 for a 20G tank... probably the 150. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3 608+3610&pcatid=3610 It's on sale right now. Reg. price is $34.49 but if you add it to your cart, the price should drop to $31.99. It comes with all the filter media you need but I would save the carbon packet for when/if needed and instead add other filter media like a polyester pad or two for added mechanical filtration/polishing. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise Add to that a cheap but reliable HOB filter for a 20 g tank. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:16 AM Subject: Need Shopping Advise Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47675	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Lainey, To give you some idea of what thse fish should take in stride, as per their salt tolerance, some coastal area Mollies living in similar conditions feel right at home with up to 8 teaspoons of salt per gallon. That's 40 teaspoons (13 1/3 Tablespoon) of salt per 5 gallons . . . and, that's a low salinity even for brackish water. If you're not comfortable with that, you could at least consider increasing it up to 6 teaspoons per gallon (10 Tablespoons per 5 gallons), or anything approaching that amount which should be plenty enough salt to kill the fungus. Even low TDS-loving Discus can tolerate that. Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per gallon per day, at the maximum. Yes, keep all these mosquito fish together; they'll all be comfortable in this water and it's much easier to keep them all in the same conditions instead of acclimating some to fresh water from different salinities at different times. With these salt level recommendations stated, I would not attempt to include any salt intolerant species with them, including any live plants. If you're maintaining only this species in a separate tank, after treatment you may continue to keep a low level (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons) of salt with them at all times -- an addition which we don't normally recommend for strickly freshwater fish. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47676	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

They are reliable, but not accurate, there's a bit of difference ;) lol I don't recommend the dip strips because once they get any moisture inside their packaging it can easily ruin the rest of the test strips and they will be very inaccurate. Always better to get the little vials and liquids, they're very reliable and accurate and last a lot longer than the dip strips do. Amber Noura wrote: > > > > > Are these reasonably reliable? > > API 5 in 1 Aquarium Test Strips > > http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > Water Testing > > The quick and accurate way to test for pH, Nitrite, Nitrate, General > Hardness and Carbonate Hardness. Desiccant-lined tube, with snap-tight > cap, provides maximum moisture protection for accurate results. > > a.. Highly precise color charts > b.. Dip directly into aquarium – no separate vial needed > c.. Includes information on how to correct unsafe water conditions > d.. 25 strips > e.. For fresh and salt water > > Thanks for the links Mike, I'm trying to see if I can get all I need > from this seller. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:57 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise > > Hi Noura, > > I have purchased from this seller numerous times. I am still using the > same 5lb box of Cloram-x for years and years now. Not sure how customs > will like a powder based product being imported though. The aqua clear > filters are excellent and you can use the same sponge filter over and > over. You can fit two sponges in the back so consider an extra sponge > for it. Much cheaper than replacing filter cartridges. > > http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html > <http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html> > 1 lb Jar: $10.95 Each > Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water > > 5 lb Bucket: $34.50 Each > Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water > > CLORAM-X: > > Cloram-X is a unique, dry powder, water conditioner that has been > scientifically formulated to remove, and thereby detoxify, ammonia, > chlorine and chloramines from water for use in all types of fish and > aquatic invertebrate culture. ClorAm-X® should be used (1) when > conditioning new water for aquariums, tanks, ponds, and live-haul > containers, (2) after or during water additions, (3) before adding new > plants, invertebrates, fishes or amphibians to an existing aquarium, > tank, or pond, and (4) to live-haul containers, during transportation > of live fishes, amphibians, or aquatic invertebrates, to control and > eliminate ammonia in the shipping water. > > AQUACLEAR 30: > http://www.kensfish.com/powerfiltersaquaclear.html > <http://www.kensfish.com/powerfiltersaquaclear.html> > Provides mechanical and biological filtration for both fresh and salt > water. Include sponge and carbon bag to get you started. Filter 150 gph > and is rated for aquariums up to 30 gallons. > $29.99 EACH > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Noura <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 5:21 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise > > Add to that a cheap but reliable HOB filter for a 20 g tank. > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:16 AM > Subject: Need Shopping Advise > > Hi Group, > A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she > doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some > online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. > She's in Tenessee, Memphis. > > The products I need are: > * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small > enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be > enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). > * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. > * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html> > > Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome > Thank you > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47677	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

AND the master test kits are a LOT LESS expensive than the dip-strips, especially when you look at the number of tests you'll get from a master test kit. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 8:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise They are reliable, but not accurate, there's a bit of difference ;) lol I don't recommend the dip strips because once they get any moisture inside their packaging it can easily ruin the rest of the test strips and they will be very inaccurate. Always better to get the little vials and liquids, they're very reliable and accurate and last a lot longer than the dip strips do. Amber Noura wrote: > > > > > Are these reasonably reliable? > > API 5 in 1 Aquarium Test Strips > > http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 > <http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212> > > Water Testing > > The quick and accurate way to test for pH, Nitrite, Nitrate, General > Hardness and Carbonate Hardness. Desiccant-lined tube, with snap-tight > cap, provides maximum moisture protection for accurate results. > > a.. Highly precise color charts > b.. Dip directly into aquarium - no separate vial needed c.. Includes > information on how to correct unsafe water conditions d.. 25 strips > e.. For fresh and salt water > > Thanks for the links Mike, I'm trying to see if I can get all I need > from this seller. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:57 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise > > Hi Noura, > > I have purchased from this seller numerous times. I am still using the > same 5lb box of Cloram-x for years and years now. Not sure how customs > will like a powder based product being imported though. The aqua clear > filters are excellent and you can use the same sponge filter over and > over. You can fit two sponges in the back so consider an extra sponge > for it. Much cheaper than replacing filter cartridges. > > http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html > <http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html> > 1 lb Jar: $10.95 Each > Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water > > 5 lb Bucket: $34.50 Each > Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water > > CLORAM-X: > > Cloram-X is a unique, dry powder, water conditioner that has been > scientifically formulated to remove, and thereby detoxify, ammonia, > chlorine and chloramines from water for use in all types of fish and > aquatic invertebrate culture. ClorAm-XR should be used (1) when > conditioning new water for aquariums, tanks, ponds, and live-haul > containers, (2) after or during water additions, (3) before adding new > plants, invertebrates, fishes or amphibians to an existing aquarium, > tank, or pond, and (4) to live-haul containers, during transportation > of live fishes, amphibians, or aquatic invertebrates, to control and > eliminate ammonia in the shipping water. > > AQUACLEAR 30: > http://www.kensfish.com/powerfiltersaquaclear.html > <http://www.kensfish.com/powerfiltersaquaclear.html> > Provides mechanical and biological filtration for both fresh and salt > water. Include sponge and carbon bag to get you started. Filter 150 > gph and is rated for aquariums up to 30 gallons. > $29.99 EACH > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Noura <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 5:21 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise > > Add to that a cheap but reliable HOB filter for a 20 g tank. > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:16 AM > Subject: Need Shopping Advise > > Hi Group, > A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she > doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some > online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. > She's in Tenessee, Memphis. > > The products I need are: > * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small > enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will > be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). > * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. > * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html> > > Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank > you Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47678	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Ray - You know I have the Least Killifish, (heterandria formosa), and not what I think of as the Mosquito Fish which I'm thinking is Gambusia affinis-holbrooki? Just want to make sure! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, To give you some idea of what thse fish should take in > stride, as > per their salt tolerance, some coastal area Mollies living in similar > conditions feel right at home with up to 8 teaspoons of salt per > gallon. That's > 40 teaspoons (13 1/3 Tablespoon) of salt per 5 gallons . . . and, > that's a > low salinity even for brackish water. If you're not comfortable > with that, > you could at least consider increasing it up to 6 teaspoons per > gallon (10 > Tablespoons per 5 gallons), or anything approaching that amount > which should be > plenty enough salt to kill the fungus. Even low TDS-loving Discus can > tolerate that. Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per > gallon per > day, at the maximum. > > Yes, keep all these mosquito fish together; they'll all be > comfortable in > this water and it's much easier to keep them all in the same > conditions > instead of acclimating some to fresh water from different > salinities at different > times. With these salt level recommendations stated, I would not > attempt > to include any salt intolerant species with them, including any > live plants. > If you're maintaining only this species in a separate tank, after > treatment > you may continue to keep a low level (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons) > of salt > with them at all times -- an addition which we don't normally > recommend for > strickly freshwater fish. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47679	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Lainey, I was expecting you to possibly get back to me with this, but your fish are ALSO referred to as "mosquito fish." (which is why I referred to them as such) Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47680	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Hello Lainey:    Those are the names we know those two species by in Florida.  Sometimes (in some areas) the Least Killie is known as the Mosquito Fish but generally it is Heterandria and the Mosquito Fish is Gambusia so you are correct.   Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 11:22:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Ray - You know I  have the Least Killifish, (heterandria formosa), and not  what I think of as the Mosquito Fish  which I'm thinking is Gambusia  affinis-holbrooki? Just want to make sure! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, To give you some idea of what thse fish should take in  > stride, as > per their salt tolerance, some coastal area Mollies living in similar > conditions feel right at home with up to 8 teaspoons of salt per  > gallon. That's > 40 teaspoons (13 1/3 Tablespoon) of salt per 5 gallons . . . and,  > that's a > low salinity even for brackish water. If you're not comfortable  > with that, > you could at least consider increasing it up to 6 teaspoons per  > gallon (10 > Tablespoons per 5 gallons), or anything approaching that amount  > which should be > plenty enough salt to kill the fungus. Even low TDS-loving Discus can > tolerate that. Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per  > gallon per > day, at the maximum. > > Yes, keep all these mosquito fish together; they'll all be  > comfortable in > this water and it's much easier to keep them all in the same  > conditions > instead of acclimating some to fresh water from different  > salinities at different > times. With these salt level recommendations stated, I would not  > attempt > to include any salt intolerant species with them, including any  > live plants. > If you're maintaining only this species in a separate tank, after  > treatment > you may continue to keep a low level (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons)  > of salt > with them at all times -- an addition which we don't normally  > recommend for > strickly freshwater fish. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47681	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

John, Here in the Northeast, Heterandria formosa is also called by the name of "Mosquito Fish," along with Gambusia affinis. Kind of confusing to say the least, but then, there are other fish that also share the same common name -- and just as you said -- it depends on the area, so if you're saying I'm wrong by your statement I must of necessity find that you are wrong if stating that Heterandria are not called Mosquito Fish -- as they ARE -- at least in this area. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47682	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

Lenny, Will I be able to put 2 Clown Pleco’s in the 10g q tank? They will be all by themselves as the Platy’s will have been moved by the time I get the pleco. Thanks again, Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually much smaller than BN's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are pretty good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get pretty big, around 10" to 11". http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47683	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

Yes. Baby/Juvi Clown Plecos are only about an inch long. At least that's about how big mine was when I got him/her from my LFS. There are a couple of species of dwarf plecos that are commonly called clown plecos but they all are dwarf plecos with one growing to only around 3" and the other growing only to around 4.5". They won't fight or spar as juvi's but as adults, many plecos will fight or spar for the same cave or hide-out as they mature so make sure you have several spots for each of them to call home. My single, now 3" clown pleco works hard on keeping my 65G goldfish tank as algae free as he can. I had let it grow extra algae between the time I rehomed an adopted common pleco and the time I got him, to make sure I had enough algae, as not having enough algae when you first get an algae eating fish can lead to starvation... so make sure you have enough algae before you get two of them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Lenny, Will I be able to put 2 Clown Pleco's in the 10g q tank? They will be all by themselves as the Platy's will have been moved by the time I get the pleco. Thanks again, Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually much smaller than BN's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are pretty good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get pretty big, around 10" to 11". http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47684	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Lenny & Dora

:) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "__A_YAHOO_USER__" <joaniee2003@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 10:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Lenny & Dora Excellent you two. Thanks! It was so easy to cut the tube and the filter's running great! Thanks! Joanie ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47685	From: Noura	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Hi Lenny, I liked that site.. BUT, the Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit doesn't contain a Nitrates test reagent. Just Nitrite , KH, GH, pH, and Ammonia. Plus a CO2 calculating chart. Any other affordable choices? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise I use http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com aka http://www.FosterAndSmithAquatics.com to do a lot of my online shopping. They have competitive pricing and carry most popular products. For a dechlorinator, I like API's Tap Water Conditioner, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4038 which treats for chlorine/chloramine and also treats for heavy metals. The 16 oz. bottle, for one of the lowest online prices, only $5.69, will treat 9,600 gallons so it should last you a few years, even with all your PWC's. They also have the Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+4 371&pcatid=4371, which tests for all of the basic tests you mentioned. It's only $16.89. Should last you a year without a problem. The Seachem Ammonia Alert, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4387 is listed for $6.29. Lasts for over a year. They have flat rate shipping price of $8.99 right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47686	From: Noura	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Are these reasonably reliable? API 5 in 1 Aquarium Test Strips http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 Water Testing The quick and accurate way to test for pH, Nitrite, Nitrate, General Hardness and Carbonate Hardness. Desiccant-lined tube, with snap-tight cap, provides maximum moisture protection for accurate results. a.. Highly precise color charts b.. Dip directly into aquarium – no separate vial needed c.. Includes information on how to correct unsafe water conditions d.. 25 strips e.. For fresh and salt water Thanks for the links Mike, I'm trying to see if I can get all I need from this seller. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise Hi Noura, I have purchased from this seller numerous times. I am still using the same 5lb box of Cloram-x for years and years now. Not sure how customs will like a powder based product being imported though. The aqua clear filters are excellent and you can use the same sponge filter over and over. You can fit two sponges in the back so consider an extra sponge for it. Much cheaper than replacing filter cartridges. http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html 1 lb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water 5 lb Bucket: $34.50 Each Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water CLORAM-X: Cloram-X is a unique, dry powder, water conditioner that has been scientifically formulated to remove, and thereby detoxify, ammonia, chlorine and chloramines from water for use in all types of fish and aquatic invertebrate culture. ClorAm-X® should be used (1) when conditioning new water for aquariums, tanks, ponds, and live-haul containers, (2) after or during water additions, (3) before adding new plants, invertebrates, fishes or amphibians to an existing aquarium, tank, or pond, and (4) to live-haul containers, during transportation of live fishes, amphibians, or aquatic invertebrates, to control and eliminate ammonia in the shipping water. AQUACLEAR 30: http://www.kensfish.com/powerfiltersaquaclear.html Provides mechanical and biological filtration for both fresh and salt water. Include sponge and carbon bag to get you started. Filter 150 gph and is rated for aquariums up to 30 gallons. $29.99 EACH -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 5:21 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise Add to that a cheap but reliable HOB filter for a 20 g tank. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:16 AM Subject: Need Shopping Advise Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47687	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Try the API Master test kit instead, it has all the normally used test kits (including nitrates) Amber Noura wrote: > > Hi Lenny, I liked that site.. BUT, the Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit > doesn't contain a Nitrates test reagent. Just Nitrite , KH, GH, pH, > and Ammonia. Plus a CO2 calculating chart. > > Any other affordable choices? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:30 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise > > I use http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com <http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com> aka > http://www.FosterAndSmithAquatics.com > <http://www.FosterAndSmithAquatics.com> to do a lot of my online shopping. > They have competitive pricing and carry most popular products. > > For a dechlorinator, I like API's Tap Water Conditioner, > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4038 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4038> > which treats for chlorine/chloramine and also treats for heavy metals. The > 16 oz. bottle, for one of the lowest online prices, only $5.69, will treat > 9,600 gallons so it should last you a few years, even with all your PWC's. > > They also have the Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit, > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+4 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+4> > 371&pcatid=4371, which tests for all of the basic tests you mentioned. > It's > only $16.89. Should last you a year without a problem. > > The Seachem Ammonia Alert, > http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4387 > <http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4387> > is listed for $6.29. Lasts for over a year. > > They have flat rate shipping price of $8.99 right now. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise > > Hi Group, > A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she > doesn't > know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping > websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, > Memphis. > > The products I need are: > * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small > enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be > enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). > * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. > * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, > http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html > <http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html> > > Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47688	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Hello Ray:    I wasn't saying that you were wrong at all so if you got that impression I am truly sorry.  In fact , I did point out that in Florida, as Lainey had the names, that would be correct.  I do, in fact know that in various areas of the country many different fish are known by the same common names.  That is why, as a child hanging out with Icthyologists and Herpetologists (eh, I was lucky back then), I was taught the importance of knowing Latin names.  Common names may change (or be the same for a variety of species) from region to region but scientific names are the same the world over.  So actually I was just pointing out that, at least in my region, Lainey's scientific names matched with the common names.  That's all.  Any other reference in regard to other answers was purely coincidence.    Otherwise, I have enjoyed the thread and learned a bit myself.  I have worked with both Heterandria and Gambusia in the past and actually have a thriving colony of Gambusia that is going on three years now.  I especially like the speckled males that pop up on occasion.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 2:32:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa   John, Here in the Northeast, Heterandria formosa is also called by the name of "Mosquito Fish," along with Gambusia affinis. Kind of confusing to say the least, but then, there are other fish that also share the same common name -- and just as you said -- it depends on the area, so if you're saying I'm wrong by your statement I must of necessity find that you are wrong if stating that Heterandria are not called Mosquito Fish -- as they ARE -- at least in this area. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47689	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Noura, You may be more satisfied with an A.P.I. liquid master test kit, as I believe they're easier to use (easier to read some of the test result colors). It's priced just a few dollars more, but it includes a high-range pH test kit, a low-range pH test kit and kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. An API GH/KH test kit can be bought separately if you think you need one, for about $5.99. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47690	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Noura, I would not recommend ANY test strips. While some may be fairly accurate when new, there's no way of knowing when they will age enough or be affected by ambient humidity to start giving you false readings. I just don't find them to be reliable in the long term. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47691	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Hello John, I guess I misunderstood you. Yes, common names can often confuse people. As it is, while the fish you're working with was once called Gambusia affinis, with what once was thought to be a variation of it having the speckling on the body called Gambusia affinis -- holbrooki, and of course they both were known as "Mosquito Fish." More recently, as I understand it, they were made to be separate species (also, with two different common names) -- Gambusia holbrooki (Eastern Mosquito Fish) and Gambusia affinis (Western Mosquito Fish). It's the G. holbrooki that sometimes has the speckled males -- and occasionally the females will be black-speckled also (or in rare cases, solid black). At the very most, some G. affinis may develop black speckling in some fins, usually if they do, it's the caudal (tail) fin. That must have been great being able to hang around with some ichthyologists; you were very lucky to have that opportunity. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47692	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Ahhhh... you're right. I drew a blank on that one and forgot it didn't include the nitrate test kit. There is no low priced kit that includes all of the tests. The T-L kit includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, GH and KH but no nitrate and the API kit includes pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate but not GH and KH. API does sell the nitrate kit separately or the GH/KH combo kit separately so you could go with either master kit and then add on the separate kit that you need to make either of them complete. If you go with the API kit, it does include much larger bottles of reagent drops but it will probably go bad (should be replaced yearly) before you ever use it all with just a couple of tanks. Price out both kits with the added on separately needed kit and make your choice. The last time I checked, it was a little cheaper to go with the T-L master kit and then the API nitrate test kit as an add-on. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise Hi Lenny, I liked that site.. BUT, the Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit doesn't contain a Nitrates test reagent. Just Nitrite , KH, GH, pH, and Ammonia. Plus a CO2 calculating chart. Any other affordable choices? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise I use http://www.DrsFosterSmith.com aka http://www.FosterAndSmithAquatics.com to do a lot of my online shopping. They have competitive pricing and carry most popular products. For a dechlorinator, I like API's Tap Water Conditioner, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4038 which treats for chlorine/chloramine and also treats for heavy metals. The 16 oz. bottle, for one of the lowest online prices, only $5.69, will treat 9,600 gallons so it should last you a few years, even with all your PWC's. They also have the Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kit, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+4 371&pcatid=4371, which tests for all of the basic tests you mentioned. It's only $16.89. Should last you a year without a problem. The Seachem Ammonia Alert, http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4387 is listed for $6.29. Lasts for over a year. They have flat rate shipping price of $8.99 right now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47693	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

As far as I've seen and experienced, NO dip-sticks work nearly as good as the master test kits that use test tubes and reagent chemicals. I've even taken the strips and dipped three of them, from the same bottle, side by side, and all three of them came out with different results. That seems to be the problem with them. You dip one and it gives you something that doesn't look right. So you dip another one and that one is different from the first. So you dip a third strip and get even different numbers. Which one is right? No clue. You can average them out at that point but then you are going through the strips at a very quick and EXPENSIVE rate. They only have 25 strips and if you're doing daily testing or frequent testing on a few tanks, you'll be running out every month and spending a fortune... where the two different master test kits, even with the needed extra kit added on, will be a one time annual purchase and will be a fraction of the cost in the long run. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise Are these reasonably reliable? API 5 in 1 Aquarium Test Strips http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=212 Water Testing The quick and accurate way to test for pH, Nitrite, Nitrate, General Hardness and Carbonate Hardness. Desiccant-lined tube, with snap-tight cap, provides maximum moisture protection for accurate results. a.. Highly precise color charts b.. Dip directly into aquarium - no separate vial needed c.. Includes information on how to correct unsafe water conditions d.. 25 strips e.. For fresh and salt water Thanks for the links Mike, I'm trying to see if I can get all I need from this seller. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Deenerz@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:57 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise Hi Noura, I have purchased from this seller numerous times. I am still using the same 5lb box of Cloram-x for years and years now. Not sure how customs will like a powder based product being imported though. The aqua clear filters are excellent and you can use the same sponge filter over and over. You can fit two sponges in the back so consider an extra sponge for it. Much cheaper than replacing filter cartridges. http://www.kensfish.com/waterconditioners.html 1 lb Jar: $10.95 Each Treats 3,759 Gallons of tap water 5 lb Bucket: $34.50 Each Treats 18,794 Gallons of tap water CLORAM-X: Cloram-X is a unique, dry powder, water conditioner that has been scientifically formulated to remove, and thereby detoxify, ammonia, chlorine and chloramines from water for use in all types of fish and aquatic invertebrate culture. ClorAm-XR should be used (1) when conditioning new water for aquariums, tanks, ponds, and live-haul containers, (2) after or during water additions, (3) before adding new plants, invertebrates, fishes or amphibians to an existing aquarium, tank, or pond, and (4) to live-haul containers, during transportation of live fishes, amphibians, or aquatic invertebrates, to control and eliminate ammonia in the shipping water. AQUACLEAR 30: http://www.kensfish.com/powerfiltersaquaclear.html Provides mechanical and biological filtration for both fresh and salt water. Include sponge and carbon bag to get you started. Filter 150 gph and is rated for aquariums up to 30 gallons. $29.99 EACH -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Apr 4, 2010 5:21 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need Shopping Advise Add to that a cheap but reliable HOB filter for a 20 g tank. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 3:16 AM Subject: Need Shopping Advise Hi Group, A friend of mine is in the US, and can get me some products. But she doesn't know anything about fish. I need your help to locate some online shopping websites and links to good products and low prices. She's in Tenessee, Memphis. The products I need are: * Water conditioner: I need a concentrated brand, so it will be small enough to easily pass through airports. Not more than 10oz, but will be enough for a year or two (I have about 55 gallons of water in my tanks). * A test kit for : Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, GH and KH. * Seachem ammonia alert $5, I found this link, http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html Any suggestions or recommended brands and websites are welcome Thank you Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47694	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Hello Ray:    When I was growing up I had the chance to hang out with big-wigs in Herpetology like Archie Carr and Walter Auffenberg.  Through these guys I met lots of people in both the reptile and fish communities including Jack Wattley and Donnie Conkel among others.  I have been to both Killifish and Cichlid national conventions (which I recommend everybody to attend, they have them for all kinds of fish, including native fish).  I attend our local fish club meetings when I can (and the reptile group as well) and have had the chance to hang out at many fish farms and wholesalers.  I have hunted cichlids in S. Florida and Plecostomus in the Hillsborough River.  I also was lucky enough to see a school of Clarias (Walking Catfish) in a canal in S. Florida.  So yeah, I've been fairly lucky in that area.  But, even though I've done all that, the bulk of my knowledge (which is far from complete) has come from devouring books and magazines on fish and, of course, keeping them.  I have been doing that for many years and don't see it stopping any time soon.  I also like reading club bulletins and newsletters.  And now, I hang out here as well.    I hope Everybody Had a Great Easter and...Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, the "Creature")    P.S.  Ray...I have seen a couple G. a. holbrooki females that had very miniscule spotting (usually on the caudal fin) but never an all black one.  Hmm!!!  The search ensues.    C-Ya!!! ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 6:45:03 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa   Hello John, I guess I misunderstood you. Yes, common names can often confuse people. As it is, while the fish you're working with was once called Gambusia affinis, with what once was thought to be a variation of it having the speckling on the body called Gambusia affinis -- holbrooki, and of course they both were known as "Mosquito Fish." More recently, as I understand it, they were made to be separate species (also, with two different common names) -- Gambusia holbrooki (Eastern Mosquito Fish) and Gambusia affinis (Western Mosquito Fish). It's the G. holbrooki that sometimes has the speckled males -- and occasionally the females will be black-speckled also (or in rare cases, solid black). At the very most, some G. affinis may develop black speckling in some fins, usually if they do, it's the caudal (tail) fin. That must have been great being able to hang around with some ichthyologists; you were very lucky to have that opportunity. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47695	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Mosquito Fish of the World: Common Name Country Species Type Domingo <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4726> mosquito fish Australia Gambusia dominicensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=19883> Eastern <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4521> mosquito fish Kenya Gambusia holbrooki Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=234168> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Sri Lanka Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50074> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=46642> fish Costa Rica Gambusia nicaraguensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=135903> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Fiji Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50075> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Hong Kong Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50076> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Kazakhstan Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=118119> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish New Zealand Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50077> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Russian Fed Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50078> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> Fish USA Gambusia affinis Aquarium <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50079> Source: www.fishbase.org There are localities where another species may hold the name of mosquito fish, but they are not recorded in the sources fishbase.org uses. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Hello Lainey: Those are the names we know those two species by in Florida. Sometimes (in some areas) the Least Killie is known as the Mosquito Fish but generally it is Heterandria and the Mosquito Fish is Gambusia so you are correct. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 11:22:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Ray - You know I have the Least Killifish, (heterandria formosa), and not what I think of as the Mosquito Fish which I'm thinking is Gambusia affinis-holbrooki? Just want to make sure! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, To give you some idea of what thse fish should take in > stride, as > per their salt tolerance, some coastal area Mollies living in similar > conditions feel right at home with up to 8 teaspoons of salt per > gallon. That's > 40 teaspoons (13 1/3 Tablespoon) of salt per 5 gallons . . . and, > that's a > low salinity even for brackish water. If you're not comfortable > with that, > you could at least consider increasing it up to 6 teaspoons per > gallon (10 > Tablespoons per 5 gallons), or anything approaching that amount > which should be > plenty enough salt to kill the fungus. Even low TDS-loving Discus can > tolerate that. Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per > gallon per > day, at the maximum. > > Yes, keep all these mosquito fish together; they'll all be > comfortable in > this water and it's much easier to keep them all in the same > conditions > instead of acclimating some to fresh water from different > salinities at different > times. With these salt level recommendations stated, I would not > attempt > to include any salt intolerant species with them, including any > live plants. > If you're maintaining only this species in a separate tank, after > treatment > you may continue to keep a low level (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons) > of salt > with them at all times -- an addition which we don't normally > recommend for > strickly freshwater fish. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47696	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Well, as the founding member of MOTWU (Mosquitoes Of The World United), I take offense, on behalf of my constituents and fellow members of MOTWU, of all of these various species of fish being given common names as if they are trying to commit mosquitocide on another species. Further, I call for the immediate creation of websites called Mosquitobase.org and Mosquitobay.com in order to chronicle the plight of the mosquito and to create proper profiles and care sheets so folks will be better informed on setting up proper homes for mosquitoes. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Mosquito Fish of the World: Common Name Country Species Type Domingo <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4726> mosquito fish Australia Gambusia dominicensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=19883> Eastern <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4521> mosquito fish Kenya Gambusia holbrooki Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=234168> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Sri Lanka Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50074> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=46642> fish Costa Rica Gambusia nicaraguensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=135903> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Fiji Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50075> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Hong Kong Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50076> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Kazakhstan Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=118119> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish New Zealand Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50077> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> fish Russian Fed Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50078> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3215> Fish USA Gambusia affinis Aquarium <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50079> Source: www.fishbase.org There are localities where another species may hold the name of mosquito fish, but they are not recorded in the sources fishbase.org uses. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Hello Lainey: Those are the names we know those two species by in Florida. Sometimes (in some areas) the Least Killie is known as the Mosquito Fish but generally it is Heterandria and the Mosquito Fish is Gambusia so you are correct. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 11:22:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Ray - You know I have the Least Killifish, (heterandria formosa), and not what I think of as the Mosquito Fish which I'm thinking is Gambusia affinis-holbrooki? Just want to make sure! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, To give you some idea of what thse fish should take in > stride, as > per their salt tolerance, some coastal area Mollies living in similar > conditions feel right at home with up to 8 teaspoons of salt per > gallon. That's > 40 teaspoons (13 1/3 Tablespoon) of salt per 5 gallons . . . and, > that's a > low salinity even for brackish water. If you're not comfortable > with that, > you could at least consider increasing it up to 6 teaspoons per > gallon (10 > Tablespoons per 5 gallons), or anything approaching that amount > which should be > plenty enough salt to kill the fungus. Even low TDS-loving Discus can > tolerate that. Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per > gallon per > day, at the maximum. > > Yes, keep all these mosquito fish together; they'll all be > comfortable in > this water and it's much easier to keep them all in the same > conditions > instead of acclimating some to fresh water from different > salinities at different > times. With these salt level recommendations stated, I would not > attempt > to include any salt intolerant species with them, including any > live plants. > If you're maintaining only this species in a separate tank, after > treatment > you may continue to keep a low level (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons) > of salt > with them at all times -- an addition which we don't normally > recommend for > strickly freshwater fish. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47697	From: Noura	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Ok, NO STRIPS. I'm probably going with this API Master Test Kit. ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise Noura, You may be more satisfied with an A.P.I. liquid master test kit, as I believe they're easier to use (easier to read some of the test result colors). It's priced just a few dollars more, but it includes a high-range pH test kit, a low-range pH test kit and kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. An API GH/KH test kit can be bought separately if you think you need one, for about $5.99. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47698	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/5/2010
Subject: Re: Shopping

Well, they probably have longer expiration dates on the bottles but that is a shelf life expiration date with the bottles staying sealed and not exposed to air. What fish keeper's experience has shown is that it's best to buy a new master test kit every year. I guess someone could push the limits a little longer in the situation arises. Here's a couple of articles/threads about the shelf life of these test kits. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.detail.invoker/PackagingCode%3DGE NERAL-REAG_2/NewLinkLabel%3DShelf%2Blife%2Bof%2Breagents OR http://tinyurl.com/6b7ug9 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2328 One of the things you will see from this last link is that it's VERY IMPORTANT to shake the bottles a LOT more than recommended to make sure the reagents are thoroughly mixed each and every time you use them. If you don't, then that test will result in an improper dilution of chemicals and then the rest of the chemicals in the bottle are also out of proper dilution. I shake all my bottles for 30 seconds at least and the ones that they say to shake for a minute, I shake for a couple of minutes. I'm also forwarding this off-list thread to the group so others can possibly learn from this information. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Noura [mailto:n-taweel@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 12:54 AM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Re: Shopping The most important concern is quality. I'll go with the AquaClear 30/150. Btw, I always do "surgeries" to my filter's carbon cartridge, and fill it with polyster, and then alternate the cleaning between the sponge and this polyster. I learned that from one of your old posts "maybe a year ago". As for the test kits, are both kits - Tetra and API- valid for one year only? I would go with the longer expiration date because I will probably not be able to get the stuff again anytime soon. I'm arranging to get all the supplies I need from Fosters and Smith, that's more convenient for my friend, and I like the flat ship rate. API Master test kit is for $23 and the GH/KH for $6.49 , that will be 1360 Syrian Pounds, which is exactly 10% of my monthly salary.. hmmm.. if I buy those, along with the ammonia alert, the HOB, a small sponge filter for the 6g, and the conditiner, that will be about $80 = 4000 SP, which is a bout 30% of my monthly salary. You know what, I wish I could get more of these cool fish stuff, but I still need a lot of books, and adding to all that will be really rude of me! I guess I'll have to pass on the conditioner, I'm not even sure if all these stuff will pass through the airports of the US, UAE, and finally Syria. Man you are so lucky to live where all this is a few clicks away! oh.. Thanks for the advise! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <goldlenny@...> To: "'Noura'" <n-taweel@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 4:38 AM Subject: RE: Shopping > Whisper's aren't nearly as good. I've never had one last more than a > couple > of years at most. Plus, their filter media isn't nearly as good and they > try to push their filter cartridges on people, which is where they try to > make up their money for selling their HOB's cheaper from the start. Kind > of > like printer and copy machine makers sell their machines cheap but then > rip > people off on the refill cartridges. > > Of course, if you are like me, you can do surgery on their filter > cartridge > to remove the carbon and add some more filter padding and then you can > clean > the filter pads as needed but the AC's filter media includes a nice sized > sponge block as the first stage of mechanical and biological filtration, > then you can add a piece of poly pad for added mechanical filtration and > then put the included bio-max media on the top to which is where most of > the > N-bacteria will live so when you clean the sponge and pads every week, you > can clean them much better without worrying about killing off your > N-bacteria colonies. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Noura [mailto:n-taweel@...] > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 5:35 PM > To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Subject: Shopping > > Hi Lenny, > Are Whisper HOB power filters good? > I found one for a 30G at fosters and smith for $17.19, much lower than the > price of Hagen AquaClear150, but I have no idea about the quality or > noise > level if compared to eachother. > > Thanks for your constant usual help > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47699	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Thanx Steve:    My point exactly.  You bring a good light to it.  Common names mean nothing because a myriad of species can be  found under the umbrella of a single name but each of these animals has only one scientific name (unless some hot-shot scientist tries to make a name for his/her self by re-naming animals as was recently done with ratsnakes and has been done with several Central and South American cichlids as well).  I guess it's all meant to keep us on our toes, and thinking.    Thanx for the info (I have noted the species).    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 10:38:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa   Mosquito Fish of the World: Common Name Country Species Type Domingo <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=4726> mosquito fish Australia Gambusia dominicensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=19883> Eastern <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=4521> mosquito fish Kenya Gambusia holbrooki Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=234168> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Sri Lanka Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50074> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=46642> fish Costa Rica Gambusia nicaraguensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=135903> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Fiji Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50075> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Hong Kong Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50076> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Kazakhstan Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=118119> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish New Zealand Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50077> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Russian Fed Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50078> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> Fish USA Gambusia affinis Aquarium <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50079> Source: www.fishbase. org There are localities where another species may hold the name of mosquito fish, but they are not recorded in the sources fishbase.org uses. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Hello Lainey: Those are the names we know those two species by in Florida. Sometimes (in some areas) the Least Killie is known as the Mosquito Fish but generally it is Heterandria and the Mosquito Fish is Gambusia so you are correct. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 11:22:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Ray - You know I have the Least Killifish, (heterandria formosa), and not what I think of as the Mosquito Fish which I'm thinking is Gambusia affinis-holbrooki? Just want to make sure! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com On Apr 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com wrote: > Lainey, To give you some idea of what thse fish should take in > stride, as > per their salt tolerance, some coastal area Mollies living in similar > conditions feel right at home with up to 8 teaspoons of salt per > gallon. That's > 40 teaspoons (13 1/3 Tablespoon) of salt per 5 gallons . . . and, > that's a > low salinity even for brackish water. If you're not comfortable > with that, > you could at least consider increasing it up to 6 teaspoons per > gallon (10 > Tablespoons per 5 gallons), or anything approaching that amount > which should be > plenty enough salt to kill the fungus. Even low TDS-loving Discus can > tolerate that. Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per > gallon per > day, at the maximum. > > Yes, keep all these mosquito fish together; they'll all be > comfortable in > this water and it's much easier to keep them all in the same > conditions > instead of acclimating some to fresh water from different > salinities at different > times. With these salt level recommendations stated, I would not > attempt > to include any salt intolerant species with them, including any > live plants. > If you're maintaining only this species in a separate tank, after > treatment > you may continue to keep a low level (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons) > of salt > with them at all times -- an addition which we don't normally > recommend for > strickly freshwater fish. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47700	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Shopping

As with medications, test kit reagents will also last much longer beyond their stated expiration date if kept refrigerated. By now I've gotten into the habit of automatically shaking the bottles without giving it any thought, but it's something that should be done to ensure an even distribution of the contents -- whether it always needs it or not. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47701	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

An apology to those who read in plain text as the table did not come through correctly. You can do a common name search on fishbase.org and find the table as it was presented. You can also take a look under synonyms for G> holbrooki to find the number of names this fish has gone under since it was first described. That, in itself, can be an interesting walk through history, if you follow-up on the various names. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Thanx Steve: My point exactly. You bring a good light to it. Common names mean nothing because a myriad of species can be found under the umbrella of a single name but each of these animals has only one scientific name (unless some hot-shot scientist tries to make a name for his/her self by re-naming animals as was recently done with ratsnakes and has been done with several Central and South American cichlids as well). I guess it's all meant to keep us on our toes, and thinking. Thanx for the info (I have noted the species). Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 10:38:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Mosquito Fish of the World: Common Name Country Species Type Domingo <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=4726> mosquito fish Australia Gambusia dominicensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=19883> Eastern <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=4521> mosquito fish Kenya Gambusia holbrooki Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=234168> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Sri Lanka Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50074> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=46642> fish Costa Rica Gambusia nicaraguensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=135903> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Fiji Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50075> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Hong Kong Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50076> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Kazakhstan Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=118119> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish New Zealand Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50077> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Russian Fed Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50078> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> Fish USA Gambusia affinis Aquarium <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50079> Source: www.fishbase. org There are localities where another species may hold the name of mosquito fish, but they are not recorded in the sources fishbase.org uses. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Hello Lainey: Those are the names we know those two species by in Florida. Sometimes (in some areas) the Least Killie is known as the Mosquito Fish but generally it is Heterandria and the Mosquito Fish is Gambusia so you are correct. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 11:22:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Ray - You know I have the Least Killifish, (heterandria formosa), and not what I think of as the Mosquito Fish which I'm thinking is Gambusia affinis-holbrooki? Just want to make sure! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com On Apr 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com wrote: > Lainey, To give you some idea of what thse fish should take in > stride, as > per their salt tolerance, some coastal area Mollies living in similar > conditions feel right at home with up to 8 teaspoons of salt per > gallon. That's > 40 teaspoons (13 1/3 Tablespoon) of salt per 5 gallons . . . and, > that's a > low salinity even for brackish water. If you're not comfortable > with that, > you could at least consider increasing it up to 6 teaspoons per > gallon (10 > Tablespoons per 5 gallons), or anything approaching that amount > which should be > plenty enough salt to kill the fungus. Even low TDS-loving Discus can > tolerate that. Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per > gallon per > day, at the maximum. > > Yes, keep all these mosquito fish together; they'll all be > comfortable in > this water and it's much easier to keep them all in the same > conditions > instead of acclimating some to fresh water from different > salinities at different > times. With these salt level recommendations stated, I would not > attempt > to include any salt intolerant species with them, including any > live plants. > If you're maintaining only this species in a separate tank, after > treatment > you may continue to keep a low level (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons) > of salt > with them at all times -- an addition which we don't normally > recommend for > strickly freshwater fish. Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47702	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Hi Noura,   One other quick note?  If you stay with the API products, you'll find that they are used by near everyone on group.  This means we are all on the same page!  Any trouble with using or reading results and we are all here to help.  Listen to Ray, he knows.   Bill --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 1:42 AM Ok, NO STRIPS. I'm probably going with this API Master Test Kit.   ----- Original Message -----   From: sevenspringss@...   To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com   Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:13 AM   Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise       Noura, You may be more satisfied with an A.P.I. liquid master test kit, as   I believe they're easier to use (easier to read some of the test result   colors). It's priced just a few dollars more, but it includes a high-range pH   test kit, a low-range pH test kit and kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.   An API GH/KH test kit can be bought separately if you think you need one,   for about $5.99. Ray </HTML>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47703	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Shopping

Ray, I've never kept mine in the refrigerator but I know, with many foods/drugs/batteries/etc., keeping them cold (or even frozen for some batteries) extends their life. Which brands of reagents have you kept refrigerated that have shown to still give accurate test results and last longer? I'm thinking about sending a few emails out to the common test kit companies to see if they'll comment on the refrigeration aspect. Then I'll either ask the Cichlid-Forum to update their article or do my own on my blog with this updated info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Shopping As with medications, test kit reagents will also last much longer beyond their stated expiration date if kept refrigerated. By now I've gotten into the habit of automatically shaking the bottles without giving it any thought, but it's something that should be done to ensure an even distribution of the contents -- whether it always needs it or not. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47704	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

I forget who the OP was in this thread, I think Lainey, and coincidentally, I was just browsing through a previously read TFH Magazine from August 2009 (which happened to be on the top of my reading stack next to my throne... I know, TMI.. LOL) and this species was actually highlighted in Ted Coletti's "Livebearers Unlimited" section of the magazine with a several page article. You may be able to read the article online here... http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200908/#pg37 But it may not work. I'm a subscriber so it works for me but it may work for others as well. If you do have to subscribe, check out the paper editions or the lower priced digital edition. There is also a link to receive a free one edition digital subscription and maybe, you can pick your edition and be able to read this August 2009 edition. http://www.tfhmagazine.com/subscriptions/ I haven't seen it in a while but every once in a while, TFH will offer the digital subscription for only $1.00. Here's a forum post for last year but folks can try the link in the forum post to see if it's still available. http://gcas.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12759 which ultimately leads to this link... http://www.tfhmagazine.com/earthday Apparently TFH ran this deal for Earth Day last year and may repeat it again this year. I'm guessing Earth Day may be coming up again around 4/23/2010 but maybe one of our environmentalist members will know for sure... I'll probably be cutting down a tree or doing some other Earth ravaging act on that day. ;-) Once you have a digital or paper subscription, you can go back and read all of the archived digital editions for the past 10+ years, so it's actually a good deal, even if you don't get it for the $1.00 special. For those who don't want to pay anything, many of the articles are saved in the TFH archives and are publicly available.... but not this particular article. http://www.tfhmagazine.com/archives/article-index/ OK... I did my advertizing quota for TFH magazine for the year. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa An apology to those who read in plain text as the table did not come through correctly. You can do a common name search on fishbase.org and find the table as it was presented. You can also take a look under synonyms for G> holbrooki to find the number of names this fish has gone under since it was first described. That, in itself, can be an interesting walk through history, if you follow-up on the various names. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Thanx Steve: My point exactly. You bring a good light to it. Common names mean nothing because a myriad of species can be found under the umbrella of a single name but each of these animals has only one scientific name (unless some hot-shot scientist tries to make a name for his/her self by re-naming animals as was recently done with ratsnakes and has been done with several Central and South American cichlids as well). I guess it's all meant to keep us on our toes, and thinking. Thanx for the info (I have noted the species). Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 10:38:03 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Mosquito Fish of the World: Common Name Country Species Type Domingo <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=4726> mosquito fish Australia Gambusia dominicensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=19883> Eastern <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=4521> mosquito fish Kenya Gambusia holbrooki Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=234168> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Sri Lanka Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50074> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=46642> fish Costa Rica Gambusia nicaraguensis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=135903> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Fiji Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50075> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Hong Kong Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50076> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Kazakhstan Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=118119> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish New Zealand Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50077> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> fish Russian Fed Gambusia affinis Vernacular <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50078> Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php?id=3215> Fish USA Gambusia affinis Aquarium <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50079> Source: www.fishbase. org There are localities where another species may hold the name of mosquito fish, but they are not recorded in the sources fishbase.org uses. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Hello Lainey: Those are the names we know those two species by in Florida. Sometimes (in some areas) the Least Killie is known as the Mosquito Fish but generally it is Heterandria and the Mosquito Fish is Gambusia so you are correct. Have a Great Day!!! John (aka, "Spawn") ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 11:22:09 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa Ray - You know I have the Least Killifish, (heterandria formosa), and not what I think of as the Mosquito Fish which I'm thinking is Gambusia affinis-holbrooki? Just want to make sure! Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com On Apr 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com wrote: > Lainey, To give you some idea of what thse fish should take in > stride, as > per their salt tolerance, some coastal area Mollies living in similar > conditions feel right at home with up to 8 teaspoons of salt per > gallon. That's > 40 teaspoons (13 1/3 Tablespoon) of salt per 5 gallons . . . and, > that's a > low salinity even for brackish water. If you're not comfortable > with that, > you could at least consider increasing it up to 6 teaspoons per > gallon (10 > Tablespoons per 5 gallons), or anything approaching that amount > which should be > plenty enough salt to kill the fungus. Even low TDS-loving Discus can > tolerate that. Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per > gallon per > day, at the maximum. > > Yes, keep all these mosquito fish together; they'll all be > comfortable in > this water and it's much easier to keep them all in the same > conditions > instead of acclimating some to fresh water from different > salinities at different > times. With these salt level recommendations stated, I would not > attempt > to include any salt intolerant species with them, including any > live plants. > If you're maintaining only this species in a separate tank, after > treatment > you may continue to keep a low level (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons) > of salt > with them at all times -- an addition which we don't normally > recommend for > strickly freshwater fish. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47705	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

How about so ottosinclus? How many would be considereded? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:25:13 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Yes. Baby/Juvi Clown Plecos are only about an inch long. At least that's about how big mine was when I got him/her from my LFS. There are a couple of species of dwarf plecos that are commonly called clown plecos but they all are dwarf plecos with one growing to only around 3" and the other growing only to around 4.5". They won't fight or spar as juvi's but as adults, many plecos will fight or spar for the same cave or hide-out as they mature so make sure you have several spots for each of them to call home. My single, now 3" clown pleco works hard on keeping my 65G goldfish tank as algae free as he can. I had let it grow extra algae between the time I rehomed an adopted common pleco and the time I got him, to make sure I had enough algae, as not having enough algae when you first get an algae eating fish can lead to starvation... so make sure you have enough algae before you get two of them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Lenny, Will I be able to put 2 Clown Pleco's in the 10g q tank? They will be all by themselves as the Platy's will have been moved by the time I get the pleco. Thanks again, Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually much smaller than BN's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are pretty good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get pretty big, around 10" to 11". http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47706	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

You would need a LOT of Oto's to take care of the algae you may face in an 80G tank. They only grow to around an inch or so. Further, they're not nearly as hardy as the pleco's we've been talking about. I would go with one or two of the dwarf plecos that we've been talking about. In fact, if Pam makes an appearance, she breeds Bristle Nosed Plecos and you could probably get a pretty good deal on them from her if she has some available right now. Pam... are you reading??? Or maybe, Amber might even have some. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 12:12 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed How about so ottosinclus? How many would be considereded? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:25:13 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Yes. Baby/Juvi Clown Plecos are only about an inch long. At least that's about how big mine was when I got him/her from my LFS. There are a couple of species of dwarf plecos that are commonly called clown plecos but they all are dwarf plecos with one growing to only around 3" and the other growing only to around 4.5". They won't fight or spar as juvi's but as adults, many plecos will fight or spar for the same cave or hide-out as they mature so make sure you have several spots for each of them to call home. My single, now 3" clown pleco works hard on keeping my 65G goldfish tank as algae free as he can. I had let it grow extra algae between the time I rehomed an adopted common pleco and the time I got him, to make sure I had enough algae, as not having enough algae when you first get an algae eating fish can lead to starvation... so make sure you have enough algae before you get two of them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Lenny, Will I be able to put 2 Clown Pleco's in the 10g q tank? They will be all by themselves as the Platy's will have been moved by the time I get the pleco. Thanks again, Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually much smaller than BN's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are pretty good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get pretty big, around 10" to 11". http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47707	From: Noura	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Need Shopping Advise

Yes I've set my mind on the API master test kit, plus the (GH, KH) seperate test bottle. I know, Ray knows! Cheers to Ray! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: bill 1433 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise Hi Noura, One other quick note? If you stay with the API products, you'll find that they are used by near everyone on group. This means we are all on the same page! Any trouble with using or reading results and we are all here to help. Listen to Ray, he knows. Bill --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 1:42 AM Ok, NO STRIPS. I'm probably going with this API Master Test Kit. ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need Shopping Advise Noura, You may be more satisfied with an A.P.I. liquid master test kit, as I believe they're easier to use (easier to read some of the test result colors). It's priced just a few dollars more, but it includes a high-range pH test kit, a low-range pH test kit and kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. An API GH/KH test kit can be bought separately if you think you need one, for about $5.99. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((?>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((?> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((?> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <?((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<?((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<?((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47708	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Shopping

Lenny, I use API test kits/reagents, which is what I keep refigerated. I've had Tetra (Laborette?) test kits at one time in the past and even though I never had a problem with them, I recall several times on here when people had problems reading the pH test results. For this reason, I'm reluctant to advise buying them. I find API kits very easy to match to their color charts, although some people don't realize that they should back up their test vials with something white (a piece of white cardboard or paper). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47709	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Heterandria Fungus frustration

I increased the salt to 8 tablespoons per five gallons, and I plan to increase this to ten tablespoons per five galloons tomorrow, then stop. I also started Pimafix by API. NO CHANGE! Shouldn't I be seeing improvement in the tuft of fungus on the fish's tail by now? Or do I need to wait several days with all I'm doing? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47710	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus on heterandria formosa

Thanks, Lenny - I saw that article when it came out - it influenced me to pursue this fish, and I have to say, I really like them. They're my exact favorite type of fish. Hardy, curious, fearless, livebearers but not overly productive, and they are always up to something cute like investigating a piece of moss or something (not that I have much for them to do at the moment with all the salt!). Also, they eat everything. What's not to like? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 6, 2010, at 12:57 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I forget who the OP was in this thread, I think Lainey, and > coincidentally, > I was just browsing through a previously read TFH Magazine from > August 2009 > (which happened to be on the top of my reading stack next to my > throne... I > know, TMI.. LOL) and this species was actually highlighted in Ted > Coletti's > "Livebearers Unlimited" section of the magazine with a several page > article. > > You may be able to read the article online here... > > http://www.tfhdigital.com/tfh/200908/#pg37 > > But it may not work. I'm a subscriber so it works for me but it may > work > for others as well. > > If you do have to subscribe, check out the paper editions or the lower > priced digital edition. There is also a link to receive a free one > edition > digital subscription and maybe, you can pick your edition and be > able to > read this August 2009 edition. > > http://www.tfhmagazine.com/subscriptions/ > > I haven't seen it in a while but every once in a while, TFH will > offer the > digital subscription for only $1.00. Here's a forum post for last > year but > folks can try the link in the forum post to see if it's still > available. > > http://gcas.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12759 which ultimately > leads to > this link... > > http://www.tfhmagazine.com/earthday Apparently TFH ran this deal > for Earth > Day last year and may repeat it again this year. I'm guessing Earth > Day may > be coming up again around 4/23/2010 but maybe one of our > environmentalist > members will know for sure... I'll probably be cutting down a tree > or doing > some other Earth ravaging act on that day. ;-) Once you have a > digital or > paper subscription, you can go back and read all of the archived > digital > editions for the past 10+ years, so it's actually a good deal, even > if you > don't get it for the $1.00 special. > > For those who don't want to pay anything, many of the articles are > saved in > the TFH archives and are publicly available.... but not this > particular > article. http://www.tfhmagazine.com/archives/article-index/ > > OK... I did my advertizing quota for TFH magazine for the year. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:57 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa > > An apology to those who read in plain text as the table did not > come through > correctly. You can do a common name search on fishbase.org and find > the > table as it was presented. > > You can also take a look under synonyms for G> holbrooki to find > the number > of names this fish has gone under since it was first described. > That, in > itself, can be an interesting walk through history, if you follow- > up on the > various names. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of john Lewis > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:42 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa > > Thanx Steve: > My point exactly. You bring a good light to it. Common names mean > nothing because a myriad of species can be found under the umbrella > of a > single name but each of these animals has only one scientific name > (unless > some hot-shot scientist tries to make a name for his/her self by re- > naming > animals as was recently done with ratsnakes and has been done with > several > Central and South American cichlids as well). I guess it's all > meant to > keep us on our toes, and thinking. > Thanx for the info (I have noted the species). > Have a Great Day!!! > John (aka, "Spawn") > > ________________________________ > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 10:38:03 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa > > Mosquito Fish of the World: > > Common Name > > Country > > Species > > Type > > Domingo <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=4726> > mosquito fish > > Australia > > Gambusia dominicensis > > Vernacular > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=19883> > > Eastern <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=4521> > mosquito fish > > Kenya > > Gambusia holbrooki > > Vernacular > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm? > autoctr=234168> > > Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=3215> > fish > > Sri Lanka > > Gambusia affinis > > Vernacular > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50074> > > Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=46642> > fish > > Costa Rica > > Gambusia nicaraguensis > > Vernacular > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm? > autoctr=135903> > > Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=3215> > fish > > Fiji > > Gambusia affinis > > Vernacular > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50075> > > Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=3215> > fish > > Hong Kong > > Gambusia affinis > > Vernacular > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50076> > > Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=3215> > fish > > Kazakhstan > > Gambusia affinis > > Vernacular > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm? > autoctr=118119> > > Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=3215> > fish > > New Zealand > > Gambusia affinis > > Vernacular > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50077> > > Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=3215> > fish > > Russian Fed > > Gambusia affinis > > Vernacular > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50078> > > Mosquito <http://www.fishbase .org/Summary/ SpeciesSummary. php? > id=3215> > Fish > > USA > > Gambusia affinis > > Aquarium > <http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/CommonNameSummary.cfm?autoctr=50079> > > Source: www.fishbase. org > > There are localities where another species may hold the name of > mosquito > fish, but they are not recorded in the sources fishbase.org uses. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ > yahoogroups. com] > On Behalf Of john Lewis > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa > > Hello Lainey: > > Those are the names we know those two species by in Florida. > Sometimes (in > some areas) the Least Killie is known as the Mosquito Fish but > generally it > is Heterandria and the Mosquito Fish is Gambusia so you are correct. > > Have a Great Day!!! > > John (aka, "Spawn") > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@earthlink .net> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 11:22:09 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fungus on heterandria formosa > > Ray - > > You know I have the Least Killifish, (heterandria formosa), and not > > what I think of as the Mosquito Fish which I'm thinking is Gambusia > > affinis-holbrooki? > > Just want to make sure! > > Thank you, > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslan dsgouldians. com > > On Apr 5, 2010, at 7:14 AM, sevenspringss@ wmconnect. com wrote: > > > Lainey, To give you some idea of what thse fish should take in > > > stride, as > > > per their salt tolerance, some coastal area Mollies living in > similar > > > conditions feel right at home with up to 8 teaspoons of salt per > > > gallon. That's > > > 40 teaspoons (13 1/3 Tablespoon) of salt per 5 gallons . . . and, > > > that's a > > > low salinity even for brackish water. If you're not comfortable > > > with that, > > > you could at least consider increasing it up to 6 teaspoons per > > > gallon (10 > > > Tablespoons per 5 gallons), or anything approaching that amount > > > which should be > > > plenty enough salt to kill the fungus. Even low TDS-loving Discus > can > > > tolerate that. Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per > > > gallon per > > > day, at the maximum. > > > > > > Yes, keep all these mosquito fish together; they'll all be > > > comfortable in > > > this water and it's much easier to keep them all in the same > > > conditions > > > instead of acclimating some to fresh water from different > > > salinities at different > > > times. With these salt level recommendations stated, I would not > > > attempt > > > to include any salt intolerant species with them, including any > > > live plants. > > > If you're maintaining only this species in a separate tank, after > > > treatment > > > you may continue to keep a low level (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons) > > > of salt > > > with them at all times -- an addition which we don't normally > > > recommend for > > > strickly freshwater fish. Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47711	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

Mine are not laying eggs yet, I'm keeping an eye on 'em but so far the male's are fighting over the cone shaped tube I bought for the tank. They definitely like it, just a matter of time before the females are ready I guess ;) I got my Pleco's from Pam, so I can vouch for the good shipping and great quality juveniles that she sent me last year, they're all still doing great :). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > You would need a LOT of Oto's to take care of the algae you may face in an > 80G tank. They only grow to around an inch or so. Further, they're not > nearly as hardy as the pleco's we've been talking about. I would go with > one or two of the dwarf plecos that we've been talking about. > > In fact, if Pam makes an appearance, she breeds Bristle Nosed Plecos > and you > could probably get a pretty good deal on them from her if she has some > available right now. > > Pam... are you reading??? Or maybe, Amber might even have some. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Alex Mejia > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 12:12 PM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed > > How about so ottosinclus? How many would be considereded? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:25:13 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed > > Yes. Baby/Juvi Clown Plecos are only about an inch long. At least that's > > about how big mine was when I got him/her from my LFS. There are a couple > > of species of dwarf plecos that are commonly called clown plecos but they > > all are dwarf plecos with one growing to only around 3" and the other > > growing only to around 4.5". They won't fight or spar as juvi's but as > > adults, many plecos will fight or spar for the same cave or hide-out > as they > > mature so make sure you have several spots for each of them to call home. > > My single, now 3" clown pleco works hard on keeping my 65G goldfish > tank as > > algae free as he can. I had let it grow extra algae between the time I > > rehomed an adopted common pleco and the time I got him, to make sure I had > > enough algae, as not having enough algae when you first get an algae > eating > > fish can lead to starvation... so make sure you have enough algae > before you > > get two of them. > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Alex Mejia > > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:14 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed > > Lenny, > > Will I be able to put 2 Clown Pleco's in the 10g q tank? They will be > all by > > themselves as the Platy's will have been moved by the time I get the > pleco. > > Thanks again, > > Alex > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:40 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed > > I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco > (Ancistrus > > sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could > > even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually > > much smaller than BN's. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html> > > This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. > > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm> > > Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are > pretty > > good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually > > become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get > > pretty big, around 10" to 11". > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html> > > http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html > <http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html> > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced > > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> > <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM > > To: Aquatic Life Group > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed > > Hello group and happy Easter; > > Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current > > conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 > > I currently have > > 5 emerald green cory > > 5 Danios > > 8 Platy > > 9 guppy > > 5 neon > > Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some > > suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network > from my > > BlackBerryR > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47712	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47713	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration

Ray, this message came through blank, and I am anxious to hear what you have to say! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 6, 2010, at 6:11 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47714	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration

He said: (END SNIP) LOL!!! Sorry... couldn't resist! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria Fungus frustration Ray, this message came through blank, and I am anxious to hear what you have to say! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 6, 2010, at 6:11 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > [

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47715	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration

That was mean Len. A computer fuss no doubt. I've known Ray for quite a while and he never says or implies anything that's a blank! Bill --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heterandria Fungus frustration > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 6:33 PM > He said: > > > > > > > (END SNIP) > > LOL!!!  Sorry... couldn't resist! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria Fungus frustration > > Ray, this message came through blank, and I am anxious to > hear what you have > to say! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 6, 2010, at 6:11 PM, sevenspringss@... > wrote: > > > > > > > > > [ > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47716	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47717	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration

At 8 Tablespoons per 5 gallon, this is only 4.6 teaspoons per gallon. While you should start to see some effects, you should have better results after increasing to 10 Tablespoons per 5 gallons (6 teaspoons per gallon). The results are never immediate though. I can't comment on the Pimafix as I don't use it, but API states that it's effective against the type of fungus you have. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47718	From: jimpat101	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: My 72 gal. bow front problems are back,,,

Lenny, Well, I thought I had a fix for my problems, but it's getting worse....I removed ~ 15 gal. of water to take some pressure off the glass and tank joints... What I need to know from you is how hard is it to replace the top plastic rim of the tank? I found a LFS that can get a new one for $60. How hard is it to remove the old one? I figured I can remove all but 10 gal. of water to remove the old one and place on the new one.... If not, I an going to junk the 72 and get a 55 gal. What do you think, or anyone that has tryed this?? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47719	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria Fungus frustration

Lainey, Sometimes my computer just sends the blank page as soon as I hit Reply to type a message. If I stopped what I started to do just to send out a message for everyone to expect a blank when that happens, I'm sure they'd get tired of that so I just let it go unexplained, knowing that they'll hear from me soon. So, the next time you receive a blank, you'll know that I'm busy typing some message to someone, which will be posted sometime later -- and that my 'puter just decided to act on its own again. Nothing intential on my part, and nothing else seriously wrong with the 'puter for it to do that -- it just has a mind of it's own (LOL). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47720	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: My 72 gal. bow front problems are back,,,

I don't remember. Is your tank glass or acrylic? If glass, it takes a little work to scrape off enough of the silicone to get the black frame off the top and then you can clean up the rest of the old silicone, put a new bead of silicone down and put the new top frame back on. If it's acrylic, I've never done one or even thought about it. I'm looking at my 65G acrylic tank with black plastic frame right now but I can't see how it's held on. I imagine it's silicone since I don't think they'd use acrylic like they do on all of the other seams... but if they do, that would be MUCH HARDER to remove. Hopefully, yours is glass. Here's some links on doing tank repairs and re-siliconing a tank for some guidance.... including two of the links I saved in my favorites folder about your specific issue. http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107 http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/a/aa031302.htm http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm http://www.aquaboards.com/viewtopic.php?id=7923 http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/30648-splitting-46g-bf -center-brace-what.html OR http://tinyurl.com/ygd8kxh Do you have a second tank or holding tank to hold your fish while the silicone cures? I'm not sure if the fumes put out by curing silicone are lighter or heavier than air and you wouldn't want them dropping down into the tank and then ingassing into your water as it would probably be fatal to the fish. Also, any little chunks of silicone as you're breaking the seal and scraping off the old silicone. It takes 24-48 hours for silicone to fully cure and quit putting out the toxic fumes. If you do have to leave the gravel and some water in the tank, you could take some plastic and tape it to the inside of the tank, halfway down to give you room to work and the plastic would catch the silicone debris and also keep the fumes out of the water. I'm not sure how the fish would do with no filtration and such low water level. You could leave just an air stone down in the water with the plastic and tape sealing around the air line, maybe with a small gap for the pumped in air to escape so it doesn't blow up the plastic and cause it to rip off the tank walls. Obviously, it would be best to move the fish and just try to save the gravel's ecology using this method with the fish safely in a temporary container with the filter running on it. If you shop around, you could probably find a 55G for around the same $60.00 but you would be sacrificing 17G of water volume.. and the bow front fancier appearance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My 72 gal. bow front problems are back,,, Lenny, Well, I thought I had a fix for my problems, but it's getting worse....I removed ~ 15 gal. of water to take some pressure off the glass and tank joints... What I need to know from you is how hard is it to replace the top plastic rim of the tank? I found a LFS that can get a new one for $60. How hard is it to remove the old one? I figured I can remove all but 10 gal. of water to remove the old one and place on the new one.... If not, I an going to junk the 72 and get a 55 gal. What do you think, or anyone that has tryed this?? Thanks, Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47721	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Re: My 72 gal. bow front problems are back,,,

Lenny, Thanks for the advice and links....It's a glass tank.. Jim In a message dated 4/6/2010 7:08:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I don't remember. Is your tank glass or acrylic? If glass, it takes a little work to scrape off enough of the silicone to get the black frame off the top and then you can clean up the rest of the old silicone, put a new bead of silicone down and put the new top frame back on. If it's acrylic, I've never done one or even thought about it. I'm looking at my 65G acrylic tank with black plastic frame right now but I can't see how it's held on. I imagine it's silicone since I don't think they'd use acrylic like they do on all of the other seams... but if they do, that would be MUCH HARDER to remove. Hopefully, yours is glass. Here's some links on doing tank repairs and re-siliconing a tank for some guidance.... including two of the links I saved in my favorites folder about your specific issue. _http://www.aquamanihttp://www.aquhttp://wwhttp://www.ahttp://_ (http://www.aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=107) _http://saltaquariumhttp://salthttp://saltaquahttp://salthtt_ (http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/a/aa031302.htm) _http://saltaquariumhttp://salthttp://saltaquahttp://saltaquarhttp:/_ (http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/ht/htrepairsmleaks.htm) _http://www.aquaboarhttp://www.aquabhttp://www.a_ (http://www.aquaboards.com/viewtopic.php?id=7923) _http://www.aquaticphttp://www.ahttp://www.aqhttp://wwwhttp://www.aquathttp: /_ (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/30648-splitting-46g-bf) -center-brace--center-b OR _http://tinyurl.http://tiny_ (http://tinyurl.com/ygd8kxh) Do you have a second tank or holding tank to hold your fish while the silicone cures? I'm not sure if the fumes put out by curing silicone are lighter or heavier than air and you wouldn't want them dropping down into the tank and then ingassing into your water as it would probably be fatal to the fish. Also, any little chunks of silicone as you're breaking the seal and scraping off the old silicone. It takes 24-48 hours for silicone to fully cure and quit putting out the toxic fumes. If you do have to leave the gravel and some water in the tank, you could take some plastic and tape it to the inside of the tank, halfway down to give you room to work and the plastic would catch the silicone debris and also keep the fumes out of the water. I'm not sure how the fish would do with no filtration and such low water level. You could leave just an air stone down in the water with the plastic and tape sealing around the air line, maybe with a small gap for the pumped in air to escape so it doesn't blow up the plastic and cause it to rip off the tank walls. Obviously, it would be best to move the fish and just try to save the gravel's ecology using this method with the fish safely in a temporary container with the filter running on it. If you shop around, you could probably find a 55G for around the same $60.00 but you would be sacrificing 17G of water volume.. and the bow front fancier appearance. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.http://Gohtt_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 6:40 PM To: _AquaticLife@AquaticLife@Aqu_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] My 72 gal. bow front problems are back,,, Lenny, Well, I thought I had a fix for my problems, but it's getting worse....I removed ~ 15 gal. of water to take some pressure off the glass and tank joints... What I need to know from you is how hard is it to replace the top plastic rim of the tank? I found a LFS that can get a new one for $60. How hard is it to remove the old one? I figured I can remove all but 10 gal. of water to remove the old one and place on the new one.... If not, I an going to junk the 72 and get a 55 gal. What do you think, or anyone that has tryed this?? Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47722	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/6/2010
Subject: Baby rams in new homes

I found homes for all 23 of my baby rams as I don't have the tank size to do them justice here. I was really nervous about the transfer, but I found two guys who know a whole lot about fish and one took ten, the other took 13. Both were within a couple of hours by car. We used heat packs and insulation, and they drip acclimated them and one of the guys even went out and bought RO water for the transfer. It's been a couple of weeks now and all the rams are doing very well. One guy has a 75gallon and the other has a 125 gallon, both planted. I feel pretty pleased to have pulled this off! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47723	From: Noura	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Baby rams in new homes

OH! They're gone? "I" will miss them Lainey. That must have been a unique and awsome experience. Are you willing to repeat it if the parents laid eggs again "God forbid!"? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lainey Alexander To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 5:59 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby rams in new homes I found homes for all 23 of my baby rams as I don't have the tank size to do them justice here. I was really nervous about the transfer, but I found two guys who know a whole lot about fish and one took ten, the other took 13. Both were within a couple of hours by car. We used heat packs and insulation, and they drip acclimated them and one of the guys even went out and bought RO water for the transfer. It's been a couple of weeks now and all the rams are doing very well. One guy has a 75gallon and the other has a 125 gallon, both planted. I feel pretty pleased to have pulled this off! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47724	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Baby rams in new homes

Well, the hardest part for me was finding good homes for them. I worry about my responsibility to avoid sending them to a potentially bad place. The easiest thing would have been to drive them directly to a store, which I contemplated, but when I thought about some of the customers I have seen in those stores, buying huge fish for ten gallon tanks and so forth, I couldn't do it. It was quite a bit of stress and trouble getting them re-located. So if they spawn, and if I can find an easy way to re-home them, then yes I would go again. But I'm not getting into doing tri-weekly water changes or anything to make it happen! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 7, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Noura wrote: > OH! They're gone? "I" will miss them Lainey. That must have been a > unique and awsome experience. Are you willing to repeat it if the > parents laid eggs again "God forbid!"? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lainey Alexander > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 5:59 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Baby rams in new homes > > I found homes for all 23 of my baby rams as I don't have the tank > size to do them justice here. I was really nervous about the > transfer, but I found two guys who know a whole lot about fish and > one took ten, the other took 13. Both were within a couple of hours > by car. We used heat packs and insulation, and they drip acclimated > them and one of the guys even went out and bought RO water for the > transfer. It's been a couple of weeks now and all the rams are doing > very well. One guy has a 75gallon and the other has a 125 gallon, > both planted. > > I feel pretty pleased to have pulled this off! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47725	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man

http://blog.getliberty.org/default.asp?Display=2177 California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man By: admin On: 04/07/2010 09:56:27 By Rebekah Rast The Central Valley of California was once known as the breadbasket of the world-supplying about one-third of the nation's food. But today, the Westside of the Central Valley is home to hundreds of thousands of acres of dry and desolate land.... The Delta smelt, a three-inch bait fish, seems to have won the battle for water-the same water that is necessary for food growth and jobs in the highest-producing valley in the nation. How did a small fish win such a big battle? On August 31, 2007, California Federal Judge Oliver Wanger of Federal District Court protected the declining fish by severely curtailing human use water deliveries at San Joaquin-Sacramento River delta from December to June. These are the pumps at the Banks Pumping Plant that send water to Central and Southern California for agricultural and residential use. According to a May 2009 study conducted by the University of California, Davis, 35,285 jobs and $1.6 billion in economic revenue have been lost as a result of this environmental ploy in the Central Valley. (READ MORE AT ABOVE LINK) While I like my fish, I love my fellow man... so I vote for MAN (and quadruple my vote for WOMAN! lol). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47726	From: bruce cohen	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man

not every city is under water  rationing yes the courts made all  cities do it for other reasons but since the city where I live gets it water from the  wells in another area we are  at this time not applicable to it way to go Monterey Park --- On Wed, 4/7/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 11:59 AM   http://blog. getliberty. org/default. asp?Display= 2177 California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man By: admin On: 04/07/2010 09:56:27 By Rebekah Rast The Central Valley of California was once known as the breadbasket of the world-supplying about one-third of the nation's food. But today, the Westside of the Central Valley is home to hundreds of thousands of acres of dry and desolate land.... The Delta smelt, a three-inch bait fish, seems to have won the battle for water-the same water that is necessary for food growth and jobs in the highest-producing valley in the nation. How did a small fish win such a big battle? On August 31, 2007, California Federal Judge Oliver Wanger of Federal District Court protected the declining fish by severely curtailing human use water deliveries at San Joaquin-Sacramento River delta from December to June. These are the pumps at the Banks Pumping Plant that send water to Central and Southern California for agricultural and residential use. According to a May 2009 study conducted by the University of California, Davis, 35,285 jobs and $1.6 billion in economic revenue have been lost as a result of this environmental ploy in the Central Valley. (READ MORE AT ABOVE LINK) While I like my fish, I love my fellow man... so I vote for MAN (and quadruple my vote for WOMAN! lol). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47727	From: Noura	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Hi, My fish seems to have completely cured of fungi/clumnaris after one dose of General Aid "Acriflavin". However I did a second 20% PWC today and replaced the salt, and added a new full dose of Acriflavin. should I start reducing the salt content from now on in order to return the fish to the unsalted community tank, and stop applying the Acriflavin? Or should I continue one/both treatments for a few additional days? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions Hi Ray, I recall very clearly that the color generated by this "General Aid" in the water was florescent green, no doubt about it. So I'll keep adding salt till it reaches 1tbs/5gallons by tomorrow, and will apply the General Aid full strength right now. I'll also keep changing 15% of that tank's water every other day. Since transferring the "not affected" Tetras doesn't hold risk, then I'll take them back to the community tank, with very slow acclimation as they are in salty water now. They are not fighting anyway, neither trying to breed. Thanks for everything Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47728	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Does the box have any instructions on it? I know you said it didn't have an ingredients listed, so wasn't sure about instructions. I would follow the instructions on the box, if not I'm sure someone can give you a timeframe. Amber Noura wrote: > > Hi, > My fish seems to have completely cured of fungi/clumnaris after one > dose of General Aid "Acriflavin". However I did a second 20% PWC today > and replaced the salt, and added a new full dose of Acriflavin. should > I start reducing the salt content from now on in order to return the > fish to the unsalted community tank, and stop applying the Acriflavin? > Or should I continue one/both treatments for a few additional days? > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions > > Hi Ray, I recall very clearly that the color generated by this > "General Aid" in the water was florescent green, no doubt about it. > So I'll keep adding salt till it reaches 1tbs/5gallons by tomorrow, > and will apply the General Aid full strength right now. > I'll also keep changing 15% of that tank's water every other day. > > Since transferring the "not affected" Tetras doesn't hold risk, then > I'll take them back to the community tank, with very slow acclimation > as they are in salty water now. They are not fighting anyway, neither > trying to breed. > > Thanks for everything > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47729	From: Noura	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

No instructions other that the single dose volume. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions Does the box have any instructions on it? I know you said it didn't have an ingredients listed, so wasn't sure about instructions. I would follow the instructions on the box, if not I'm sure someone can give you a timeframe. Amber Noura wrote: > > Hi, > My fish seems to have completely cured of fungi/clumnaris after one > dose of General Aid "Acriflavin". However I did a second 20% PWC today > and replaced the salt, and added a new full dose of Acriflavin. should > I start reducing the salt content from now on in order to return the > fish to the unsalted community tank, and stop applying the Acriflavin? > Or should I continue one/both treatments for a few additional days? > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions > > Hi Ray, I recall very clearly that the color generated by this > "General Aid" in the water was florescent green, no doubt about it. > So I'll keep adding salt till it reaches 1tbs/5gallons by tomorrow, > and will apply the General Aid full strength right now. > I'll also keep changing 15% of that tank's water every other day. > > Since transferring the "not affected" Tetras doesn't hold risk, then > I'll take them back to the community tank, with very slow acclimation > as they are in salty water now. They are not fighting anyway, neither > trying to breed. > > Thanks for everything > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47730	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man

A larger part of the water crisis can be attributed to the lush green lawns and landscaping of Southern California! Los Angelos has been making epic water grabs for a century with the rest of the state paying the price. More than smelt are affected by the massive amounts of water diverted South from EVERY river but one in the entire state! I too vote for Men and Women :) over a little smelt but this issue is a century old. The Southern California legislators have been persisant in fighting for a "Peripheral Canal" that will essentially capture nearly all of the freshwater from the Northern half of the state and divert it to Southern California. The names of the projects change but the goal is the same. Feed that desert in Southern California with the water resources of the North. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Apr 7, 2010 11:59 am Subject: [AquaticLife] California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man http://blog.getliberty.org/default.asp?Display=2177 California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man By: admin On: 04/07/2010 09:56:27 By Rebekah Rast The Central Valley of California was once known as the breadbasket of the world-supplying about one-third of the nation's food. But today, the Westside of the Central Valley is home to hundreds of thousands of acres of dry and desolate land.... The Delta smelt, a three-inch bait fish, seems to have won the battle for water-the same water that is necessary for food growth and jobs in the highest-producing valley in the nation. How did a small fish win such a big battle? On August 31, 2007, California Federal Judge Oliver Wanger of Federal District Court protected the declining fish by severely curtailing human use water deliveries at San Joaquin-Sacramento River delta from December to June. These are the pumps at the Banks Pumping Plant that send water to Central and Southern California for agricultural and residential use. According to a May 2009 study conducted by the University of California, Davis, 35,285 jobs and $1.6 billion in economic revenue have been lost as a result of this environmental ploy in the Central Valley. (READ MORE AT ABOVE LINK) While I like my fish, I love my fellow man... so I vote for MAN (and quadruple my vote for WOMAN! lol). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47731	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man

Taking water from that much farming country, whether for a 3" fish or for lush green lawns is wrong and is costing California billions of dollars.. that you all so desperately need. Between this move and the refusal to drill-baby-drill, we might just have to cut y'all off from our Black Gold down here. ;-) It's pathetic how many States don't want to drill for their own readily available oil, gas, etc., but these same areas probably have more cars than us oil-rich states. One day, we're gonna cut everyone off and sell it to you all at whatever the market will bear... of course, that won't be much out in California at the rate you guys are going, the avg. citizen won't have much disposable income left over after taxes. Sounds like y'all should have been building more desalination plants along the shorelines at least but I guess them LA'ers don't want them plants ruining their views of the Ocean... just like them Oil wells miles off shore that nobody can really see anyhow. Hmmmmm.. I also noticed you voted equally for man and woman, instead of quadrupling your vote for woman. Me thinks you've been living in the S.F. Bay area for too long. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 6:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man A larger part of the water crisis can be attributed to the lush green lawns and landscaping of Southern California! Los Angelos has been making epic water grabs for a century with the rest of the state paying the price. More than smelt are affected by the massive amounts of water diverted South from EVERY river but one in the entire state! I too vote for Men and Women :) over a little smelt but this issue is a century old. The Southern California legislators have been persisant in fighting for a "Peripheral Canal" that will essentially capture nearly all of the freshwater from the Northern half of the state and divert it to Southern California. The names of the projects change but the goal is the same. Feed that desert in Southern California with the water resources of the North. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Apr 7, 2010 11:59 am Subject: [AquaticLife] California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man http://blog.getliberty.org/default.asp?Display=2177 California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man By: admin On: 04/07/2010 09:56:27 By Rebekah Rast The Central Valley of California was once known as the breadbasket of the world-supplying about one-third of the nation's food. But today, the Westside of the Central Valley is home to hundreds of thousands of acres of dry and desolate land.... The Delta smelt, a three-inch bait fish, seems to have won the battle for water-the same water that is necessary for food growth and jobs in the highest-producing valley in the nation. How did a small fish win such a big battle? On August 31, 2007, California Federal Judge Oliver Wanger of Federal District Court protected the declining fish by severely curtailing human use water deliveries at San Joaquin-Sacramento River delta from December to June. These are the pumps at the Banks Pumping Plant that send water to Central and Southern California for agricultural and residential use. According to a May 2009 study conducted by the University of California, Davis, 35,285 jobs and $1.6 billion in economic revenue have been lost as a result of this environmental ploy in the Central Valley. (READ MORE AT ABOVE LINK) While I like my fish, I love my fellow man... so I vote for MAN (and quadruple my vote for WOMAN! lol). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47732	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Heterandria fungus update

OK, I have ten tablespoons salt in the five gallon tank with the heterandria. I am also using the Pimafix by API. The fungal tail tuft seems to be breaking up some and appears to have reduced in size by about one third. Should I keep doing this level of salt (IE don't add any more) and wait? Should I add two more tablespoons of salt tomorrow? In other words, if it has reduced the fungus by one third, is it likely to keep working or is it likely to have done all it can at this current dose? Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47733	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update

I thought when adding salt it should be done slowly, seems like 2 tablespoons in one day would be a bit high to me... but I don't use salt in any of my tanks, lol. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > OK, I have ten tablespoons salt in the five gallon tank with the > heterandria. I am also using the Pimafix by API. The fungal tail tuft > seems to be breaking up some and appears to have reduced in size by > about one third. > > Should I keep doing this level of salt (IE don't add any more) and > wait? Should I add two more tablespoons of salt tomorrow? > > In other words, if it has reduced the fungus by one third, is it > likely to keep working or is it likely to have done all it can at > this current dose? > > Thank you! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47734	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Well I would have to think that dosing the tank longer rather than shorter than recommended would be better. I would wait to change anything until Ray or someone else can give you an idea for how long you should medicate the tank. Amber Noura wrote: > No instructions other that the single dose volume. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:50 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions > > > Does the box have any instructions on it? I know you said it didn't have > an ingredients listed, so wasn't sure about instructions. > I would follow the instructions on the box, if not I'm sure someone can > give you a timeframe. > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > >> Hi, >> My fish seems to have completely cured of fungi/clumnaris after one >> dose of General Aid "Acriflavin". However I did a second 20% PWC today >> and replaced the salt, and added a new full dose of Acriflavin. should >> I start reducing the salt content from now on in order to return the >> fish to the unsalted community tank, and stop applying the Acriflavin? >> Or should I continue one/both treatments for a few additional days? >> >> Noura >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Noura >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions >> >> Hi Ray, I recall very clearly that the color generated by this >> "General Aid" in the water was florescent green, no doubt about it. >> So I'll keep adding salt till it reaches 1tbs/5gallons by tomorrow, >> and will apply the General Aid full strength right now. >> I'll also keep changing 15% of that tank's water every other day. >> >> Since transferring the "not affected" Tetras doesn't hold risk, then >> I'll take them back to the community tank, with very slow acclimation >> as they are in salty water now. They are not fighting anyway, neither >> trying to breed. >> >> Thanks for everything >> Noura >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47735	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update

I agree, Amber, but Ray said for this particular species I could add two teaspoons per gallon per day which would be ten teaspoons per five gallons or approx 3 tablespoons per five G per day! Very scary! I was too scared so I increased by 2 tablespoons per five G per day. Here's the quote from Ray: Salt should be added at no more than 2 teaspoons per gallon per day, at the maximum. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 7, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I thought when adding salt it should be done slowly, seems like 2 > tablespoons in one day would be a bit high to me... but I don't use > salt > in any of my tanks, lol. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> OK, I have ten tablespoons salt in the five gallon tank with the >> heterandria. I am also using the Pimafix by API. The fungal tail tuft >> seems to be breaking up some and appears to have reduced in size by >> about one third. >> >> Should I keep doing this level of salt (IE don't add any more) and >> wait? Should I add two more tablespoons of salt tomorrow? >> >> In other words, if it has reduced the fungus by one third, is it >> likely to keep working or is it likely to have done all it can at >> this current dose? >> >> Thank you! >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47736	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man

Central valley became populated and farmed during a historically wet period for the area. The area was and is again becoming, an arid place. No amount of water will be able to maintain the growth that the farmers have had in the past. Eventually they will all need to move on. Much of California is historically arid. They have been grabbing water from wherever they can. Many rivers are now little more than dry beds by the time they reach their ends at another river or the ocean. The land of radical lifestyles will need to make a radical lifestyle change to cope with the reality of what nature provides. In this case it is wrenching, but, at the rate things are going, it will be wrenching even if it is not to save the fish, or any other animal or plant that some environmentalist group decides they should save. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bruce cohen Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 3:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man not every city is under water rationing yes the courts made all cities do it for other reasons but since the city where I live gets it water from the wells in another area we are at this time not applicable to it way to go Monterey Park --- On Wed, 4/7/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 11:59 AM http://blog. getliberty. org/default. asp?Display= 2177 California Water Crisis: Fish vs. Man By: admin On: 04/07/2010 09:56:27 By Rebekah Rast The Central Valley of California was once known as the breadbasket of the world-supplying about one-third of the nation's food. But today, the Westside of the Central Valley is home to hundreds of thousands of acres of dry and desolate land.... The Delta smelt, a three-inch bait fish, seems to have won the battle for water-the same water that is necessary for food growth and jobs in the highest-producing valley in the nation. How did a small fish win such a big battle? On August 31, 2007, California Federal Judge Oliver Wanger of Federal District Court protected the declining fish by severely curtailing human use water deliveries at San Joaquin-Sacramento River delta from December to June. These are the pumps at the Banks Pumping Plant that send water to Central and Southern California for agricultural and residential use. According to a May 2009 study conducted by the University of California, Davis, 35,285 jobs and $1.6 billion in economic revenue have been lost as a result of this environmental ploy in the Central Valley. (READ MORE AT ABOVE LINK) While I like my fish, I love my fellow man... so I vote for MAN (and quadruple my vote for WOMAN! lol). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny. blogspot. com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47737	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update

It would be if you went right from fresh water to that level of salinity because it would be a drastic change in percentage of salt. But when you have 10 tablespoons, for example, and you add 1 or 2 more tablespoons, it's only changing it by a 10% or 20% increase, whereas if you go from 1 tablespoon to 2 tablespoons, that's a 100% increase. Also, for fish that are much more tolerant of salt such as these brackish water fish, it's not as much of an osmotic shock to them as their osmoregulatory system is designed to change salinity levels at a faster rate with the tidal movements that bring in a high level of salt water when the tide is coming in and then a much lower salt level when the tide is going out and the fresh water river is pouring more water into their habitat. Many other FW fish would be keeling over or at least very, very stressed with two tablespoons per gallon (6 teaspoons per gallon), even it a slow acclimation was attempted. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus update I thought when adding salt it should be done slowly, seems like 2 tablespoons in one day would be a bit high to me... but I don't use salt in any of my tanks, lol. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > OK, I have ten tablespoons salt in the five gallon tank with the > heterandria. I am also using the Pimafix by API. The fungal tail tuft > seems to be breaking up some and appears to have reduced in size by > about one third. > > Should I keep doing this level of salt (IE don't add any more) and > wait? Should I add two more tablespoons of salt tomorrow? > > In other words, if it has reduced the fungus by one third, is it > likely to keep working or is it likely to have done all it can at this > current dose? > > Thank you! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47738	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update

Gotcha, I wasn't following the whole thread, so this all makes sense now. Sorry for interrupting, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > It would be if you went right from fresh water to that level of salinity > because it would be a drastic change in percentage of salt. But when you > have 10 tablespoons, for example, and you add 1 or 2 more tablespoons, > it's > only changing it by a 10% or 20% increase, whereas if you go from 1 > tablespoon to 2 tablespoons, that's a 100% increase. > > Also, for fish that are much more tolerant of salt such as these brackish > water fish, it's not as much of an osmotic shock to them as their > osmoregulatory system is designed to change salinity levels at a > faster rate > with the tidal movements that bring in a high level of salt water when the > tide is coming in and then a much lower salt level when the tide is going > out and the fresh water river is pouring more water into their habitat. > Many other FW fish would be keeling over or at least very, very stressed > with two tablespoons per gallon (6 teaspoons per gallon), even it a slow > acclimation was attempted. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus update > > I thought when adding salt it should be done slowly, seems like 2 > tablespoons in one day would be a bit high to me... but I don't use > salt in > any of my tanks, lol. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > OK, I have ten tablespoons salt in the five gallon tank with the > > heterandria. I am also using the Pimafix by API. The fungal tail tuft > > seems to be breaking up some and appears to have reduced in size by > > about one third. > > > > Should I keep doing this level of salt (IE don't add any more) and > > wait? Should I add two more tablespoons of salt tomorrow? > > > > In other words, if it has reduced the fungus by one third, is it > > likely to keep working or is it likely to have done all it can at this > > current dose? > > > > Thank you! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47739	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update

Lainey, Adding to Lenny's explanation to you, of how salt additions would only increase the salinity it increments of 10% to 20%, and that this would have little impact on a fish's osmoregulatory system -- I've often stated that salt should ideally be increased gradually, and have explained what is meant by this. While your species can take larger changes in salinity in stride, since they've evolved in tidal/brackish water condition which fluctuates twice daily in salinity, in general all salt additions to our tanks should still ideally be increased gradually even though the amount of salt additions I've recommended daily for your fish should have no (or very little) stress. However, by "gradually," while increases of up to 2 teaspoons per gallon daily may be stress-free for your fish, by this term it's meant to add these 2 teaspoons per gallon per day gradually -- preferably as one teaspoon per gallon early in the day and one teaspoon per gallon 12 hours later -- for even less osmotic stress if one has the time. This would especially apply for strictly freshwater fishes that are not found in brackish water and even more so for those fishes being found in softer water (with some of these not tolerating higher salt content anyway). I've explained this in the past - stretching out the salt additions per day for maximum osmotic pressure control -- even though the maximum daily salt addition I recommended was safe if added as one dose on those days. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47740	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus update

Since your present level of salt is now working on this fungus as I expected, in addition to the Pimafix, there's no need for any more. Do not add any more salt, but instead just allow this content to continue its effectiveness on this disease. Yes, it's likely that it will keep working; you have reached a level at which fungus finds it difficult to survive, and no doubt the Pimafix is having an adverse effect on the fungus continuing to survive also. Keep it at this level for several more days to ensure the fungus' complete removal. When you start making PWC's, do so at no more than 10% at a time for several days. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47741	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

After one bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago I have decided to start a new tank with some Oscar Cichlids. I would like to add a few other fish. Can you give me suggestions? I was wondering about smaller tetras or neon tetras. Thank you. Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47742	From: melindas	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Aquarium salt question

Hey Guys I was wondering if there was a good way to know how much salt you have in your aquarium. For some reason I always thought the salt stayed in the take when you do a water change so I never kept up with adding salt to the tank, and only added it once in a while. Now I have no idea what the concentration of salt is in my tank. Can anyone help?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47743	From: William M	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

The number one thing is how large is your tank? If it is large enough then other cichlids from South or Central America should do, providing that you do not get some that are extremely aggressive. Oscars are aggressive especially when they get older. I like to call them "Mouths with fins attached" because they will eat any other fish that they can fit in their enough and they do have large enough.I would not try to put any other fish in a tank with Oscars unless the tank were at least 75 gallons. And even then you would not wish to put many other fish in with them because they; are messy fish and the bio load in the tank would get overcrowded very fast. That is if yo want your fish to have good health and long lives. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "__A_YAHOO_USER__" <joaniee2003@...> wrote: > > After one bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago I have decided to start a new tank with some Oscar Cichlids. I would like to add a few other fish. > > Can you give me suggestions? > > I was wondering about smaller tetras or neon tetras. > > Thank you. > Joanie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47744	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

What size tank? A single Oscar should be kept in at least a 6' long 75G+ sized tank (which would actually have to be in the 90G+ range). They grow to around 14" long and are also large bodied fish so they need lots of nutrition and create lots of waste. Some folks report success with keeping a single fish in a 55G 4' long tank but that might be OK when the fish is smaller but an adult non-stunted Oscar would feel pretty cramped in a 48" x 12" tank. Trying to keep one in that size tank all of it's life would likely result in stunting and health issues unless frequent PWC's (a few a week) were done to keep up the water quality and minimize stunting. A 72" x 18" tank would be the minimum I would suggest. My article on proper stocking states that a tank should be at least 6X longer than the expected adult size for slow swimmers and 8X longer for fast swimmers and at least 5G of water per adult sized inch for fish in that size range. While an Oscar could be considered a fast swimmer, they are pretty docile most of the time so the 6X formula would work. For a 12" fish, 6X equals 72". If you have at least a 6' long, 150G sized tank, you could keep a couple of Oscars long term. As the fish grows, filter maintenance and increased frequency of PWC's would be needed to keep the water quality in good condition. The Oscars would certainly like smaller tetras and neon tetras... as snacks! ;-) Fish food would probably be a better bargain and more nutritious. Here are a few good profile/care sheets about Oscars. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Astronotus_ocellatus.html http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile16.html http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/oscar_cichlid.php Suggested Companions (according to Mongabay profile): Catfish (Loricarids, Pimelodids, Doradids), characins (Silver Dollars, Leporinus, Anostomus ), cichlids (Severum, some Cichlasomines), Arawana, Knifefish. (ALL ARE LARGER FISH as smaller fish would be considered meals) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of __A_YAHOO_USER__ Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What can go with Oscar Cichlids? After one bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago I have decided to start a new tank with some Oscar Cichlids. I would like to add a few other fish. Can you give me suggestions? I was wondering about smaller tetras or neon tetras. Thank you. Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47745	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

Hi Joanie,   ANYTHING that will fit into Mr. Oscar's mouth will be eaten by them.  I had Oscar's for many years and found that, if raised together, a small army of Cory cat's works as Oscar soon learns that they are difficult to swallow and leaves them alone.  Another plus with the cats is the fact that they enjoy cleaning up after Oscar eats!   Bill --- On Thu, 4/8/10, __A_YAHOO_USER__ <joaniee2003@...> wrote: From: __A_YAHOO_USER__ <joaniee2003@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] What can go with Oscar Cichlids? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 10:27 AM After one bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago I have decided to start a new tank with some Oscar Cichlids. I would like to add a few other fish. Can you give me suggestions? I was wondering about smaller tetras or neon tetras. Thank you. Joanie ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47746	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

Joanie, Unless you're not very familiar with Oscars, I would have to take this as a late April Fools joke. Since you mention having a bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago, and presumedly do not want to repeat this experience, it can be assumed that you don't know the size that Oscars can attain, or,like many other fish that are not necessarily aggressive, that Oscars will be opportunists in that they will eat nearly anything that will fit in tbeir mouths. Keeping that in mind, even a 3" Oscar (they grow to at least 12" to 14") will look upon Neon Tetras as a tasty snack, and a 6" one will find many larger Tetras to be a fulfilling dinner. They are cute when they're small though, but a hobbyist is always advised to do their homework on any potential fish addition they know little about, to familiarize themselves with them. Oscars can grow quite fast, and while they're far from being the most aggressive Cichlid in the hobby, they have hugh appetites, with a mouth that matches it. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47747	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt question

Melinda, Unless you have marine (salt water) fish, this is really of little concern, as freshwater fish hobbyists are advised not to keep salt in their tanks. Freshwater fish never evolved having salt in their water (mother nature never continued to add salt to freshwater streams and lakes every time it rained), so unless certain situations arise such as needing to treat a disease, it's best not to keep salt in their water for the most part -- although you could keep a pinch of water to guard against possible blood poisoning from unexpected nitrite increases. To address part of your statement though, since salt is obviously dissolved in the water (it doesn't just drop to the bottom of the tank), each time we remove some of that water as in doing a partial water change, we are also removing a portion of that dissolved salt. To know approximately how much salt you are removing, when needing to know how much to replace to keep the salt level constant when treating fish, you just take note of how much water (in terms of the percentage of the whole tank's volume) you are removing during your partial water changes and this will be the same amount -- in percentage -- of salt you'll be removing with that water. In other words, if you have a 12 gallon tank and you add 12 teaspoons of salt (1 teaspoon of salt per gallon), your total (100%) amount of salt is obviously 12 teaspoons as I first stated -- there's no trickery or guesswork connected to that. Now, if you remove 3 gallons of water as your partial water change routine, in anticipation of making room for the fresh water you'll be adding, you will be removing 25% of the tank's total water volume. Since the 12 teaspoons of salt you've added to the water is dissolved and distributed evenly throughout your 12 gallons, then 25% of this salt will also be removed along with the 3 gallons of water that you've just removed -- or, exactly 3 teaspoons of salt will be removed. If you want to keep the salt in this tank at the same level (1 teaspooon per gallon, or 12 teaspoons total), as when treating your fish, then you'd need to add (replace) this lost 3 teaspoons of salt, as you add the 3 gallons of fresh water during your partial water change. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47748	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt question

Salt is not needed for FW fish... except for when treating for a specific reason... and then it should be removed with a series of PWC's. What kind of fish do you have? Most livebearers do OK with some added salt but all other FW fish do not need salt and salt can actually be bad for many FW fish. Salt stays in a tank when water evaporates so if you have fish that do need salt in their water, you should top off the tank with dechlored tap water first, before doing a PWC and then the incoming water should contain the same salt level as the tank to keep it consistent. Minor fluctuations are OK as these would happen in nature also. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium salt question Hey Guys I was wondering if there was a good way to know how much salt you have in your aquarium. For some reason I always thought the salt stayed in the take when you do a water change so I never kept up with adding salt to the tank, and only added it once in a while. Now I have no idea what the concentration of salt is in my tank. Can anyone help?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47749	From: Noura	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Could someone give me instructions please? ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions Hi, My fish seems to have completely cured of fungi/clumnaris after one dose of General Aid "Acriflavin". However I did a second 20% PWC today and replaced the salt, and added a new full dose of Acriflavin. should I start reducing the salt content from now on in order to return the fish to the unsalted community tank, and stop applying the Acriflavin? Or should I continue one/both treatments for a few additional days? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions Hi Ray, I recall very clearly that the color generated by this "General Aid" in the water was florescent green, no doubt about it. So I'll keep adding salt till it reaches 1tbs/5gallons by tomorrow, and will apply the General Aid full strength right now. I'll also keep changing 15% of that tank's water every other day. Since transferring the "not affected" Tetras doesn't hold risk, then I'll take them back to the community tank, with very slow acclimation as they are in salty water now. They are not fighting anyway, neither trying to breed. Thanks for everything Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47750	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Sorry I couldn't be more help Noura, I've never used anything called "General aid Acriflavin" or anything similar that I recall, so I don't know how long you should dose for. Most treatments for other medicines require at least a week of treatment though. How long have you been treating? Amber Noura wrote: > > > > Could someone give me instructions please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:32 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions > > Hi, > My fish seems to have completely cured of fungi/clumnaris after one > dose of General Aid "Acriflavin". However I did a second 20% PWC today > and replaced the salt, and added a new full dose of Acriflavin. should > I start reducing the salt content from now on in order to return the > fish to the unsalted community tank, and stop applying the Acriflavin? > Or should I continue one/both treatments for a few additional days? > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions > > Hi Ray, I recall very clearly that the color generated by this > "General Aid" in the water was florescent green, no doubt about it. > So I'll keep adding salt till it reaches 1tbs/5gallons by tomorrow, > and will apply the General Aid full strength right now. > I'll also keep changing 15% of that tank's water every other day. > > Since transferring the "not affected" Tetras doesn't hold risk, then > I'll take them back to the community tank, with very slow acclimation > as they are in salty water now. They are not fighting anyway, neither > trying to breed. > > Thanks for everything > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47751	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Noura, Don't be in too much of a hurry to discontinue treatment. It's usually beneficial if the medication/salt is allowed to continue working for a couple of days after the disease "seems" to have disappeared. In this way, there shouldn't be any pathogens that could reinfect the fish, which is important as the fish may still be slightly weakened from fighting these diseases. Then, as I mentioned earlier, salt should be removed at a rate of no more than 10% per PWC (with 10% partial water changes per PWC) for the first few PWC's. This can be done each day if you have the time and want to add the fish back to their community tank ASAP, or every few days if there's no particular rush -- but you should speed the process up any further than this, at least not for the first 4 PWC's -- after which several (3) 20% PWC's can be made before finally transferring them (acclimating them slowly). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47752	From: Noura	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Thanks Amber and Ray, I've been treating for four days (2 doses of Acriflavin). So I'll continue adding doses every other day for 2 additional doses, then start the 10% PWCs, daily or be-daily, without replacing the salt. Thanks for walking me through curing my fish Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions Sorry I couldn't be more help Noura, I've never used anything called "General aid Acriflavin" or anything similar that I recall, so I don't know how long you should dose for. Most treatments for other medicines require at least a week of treatment though. How long have you been treating? Amber Noura wrote: > > > > Could someone give me instructions please? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:32 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions > > Hi, > My fish seems to have completely cured of fungi/clumnaris after one > dose of General Aid "Acriflavin". However I did a second 20% PWC today > and replaced the salt, and added a new full dose of Acriflavin. should > I start reducing the salt content from now on in order to return the > fish to the unsalted community tank, and stop applying the Acriflavin? > Or should I continue one/both treatments for a few additional days? > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noura > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions > > Hi Ray, I recall very clearly that the color generated by this > "General Aid" in the water was florescent green, no doubt about it. > So I'll keep adding salt till it reaches 1tbs/5gallons by tomorrow, > and will apply the General Aid full strength right now. > I'll also keep changing 15% of that tank's water every other day. > > Since transferring the "not affected" Tetras doesn't hold risk, then > I'll take them back to the community tank, with very slow acclimation > as they are in salty water now. They are not fighting anyway, neither > trying to breed. > > Thanks for everything > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47753	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Injured albino aeneus cory

One of my albino aeneus cory's has a bad looking injury. There are several red gashes on one side of it's body and on the gills on the same side of it's body. I added melafix and pimafix this morning and did a small 10% PWC before adding the meds. I didn't want to add salt since the cory's are in my shrimp/snail tank and I didn't want to cause problems with my snails/shrimp. The injured cory is distressed looking so I didn't want to cause it more stress by moving it to a 10 gallon tank for medicating, so I just medicated the whole 55 gallon tank (if it had been in the big tank I would have moved it though, lol). It's laying upside down and appears to be "breathing" faster than normal, but the gills on one side are showing through the cuts. I'm not sure what's injuring the fish but I'm going to pull the extra ornaments out and see if any of them have sharp sides/corners on them. Should I do anything else for the poor little fishy? I just cleaned the filter this weekend so it's not due for another cleaning for a few more days, but if it's recommended I could clean it again this evening. Thanks, Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47754	From: melindas	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt question

Oh ok, I always read to keep at least 2tbs of aquarium salt in your tank at all times because a little salt helps keep away bacteria and fungus. I'm treating one fish for Ick so I'm keeping some salt in there, but after its cured I wont worry about it then if its not really important. And here's a list of the fish I keep in my 28 gal, if any one wanted to know. McAfee SiteAdvisor Warning This e-mail message contains potentially unsafe links to these sites: fishlore.com more info... 3 cherry barbs,1 Black molly (Has ick),2 Pineapple Platys, 2 Australian rainbowfish,3 Scissor tail, 1 silver molly, 2 Golden Wonder Killie Fish, 3 Kuhli Loaches, and 1 Redeye tetra. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Melinda, Unless you have marine (salt water) fish, this is really of > little concern, as freshwater fish hobbyists are advised not to keep salt in > their tanks. Freshwater fish never evolved having salt in their water (mother > nature never continued to add salt to freshwater streams and lakes every time > it rained), so unless certain situations arise such as needing to treat a > disease, it's best not to keep salt in their water for the most part -- > although you could keep a pinch of water to guard against possible blood > poisoning from unexpected nitrite increases. > > To address part of your statement though, since salt is obviously dissolved > in the water (it doesn't just drop to the bottom of the tank), each time we > remove some of that water as in doing a partial water change, we are also > removing a portion of that dissolved salt. To know approximately how much > salt you are removing, when needing to know how much to replace to keep the > salt level constant when treating fish, you just take note of how much water > (in terms of the percentage of the whole tank's volume) you are removing > during your partial water changes and this will be the same amount -- in > percentage -- of salt you'll be removing with that water. > > In other words, if you have a 12 gallon tank and you add 12 teaspoons of > salt (1 teaspoon of salt per gallon), your total (100%) amount of salt is > obviously 12 teaspoons as I first stated -- there's no trickery or guesswork > connected to that. Now, if you remove 3 gallons of water as your partial water > change routine, in anticipation of making room for the fresh water you'll > be adding, you will be removing 25% of the tank's total water volume. Since > the 12 teaspoons of salt you've added to the water is dissolved and > distributed evenly throughout your 12 gallons, then 25% of this salt will also be > removed along with the 3 gallons of water that you've just removed -- or, > exactly 3 teaspoons of salt will be removed. > > If you want to keep the salt in this tank at the same level (1 teaspooon > per gallon, or 12 teaspoons total), as when treating your fish, then you'd > need to add (replace) this lost 3 teaspoons of salt, as you add the 3 gallons > of fresh water during your partial water change. Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47755	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Search Manual Online

This is an interesting site I came across the other day. It is quirky, to say the least. When I searched for something specific, I got no relevant hits, though there were hits, but when I searched for something a bit more general, I got a number of hits (see link below), some of which proved interesting, though not really on topic. Here is the link for the search I found interesting: http://search-manual-online.com/rare-exotic-fish-manual.html http://tinyurl.com/yfaqerq You can generate your own searches from there, or start at the home page http://search-manual-online.com \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47756	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but in general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. Yeeah, I know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. Regardless of where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with them -- they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47757	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Noura, Don't add any more salt, and the acriflavin should be strong enough as is (without adding any more of it), to carry through for several more days at its present strength. Acriflavin doesn't lose its potency very fast so it shouldn't need repeating. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47758	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Aquarium salt question

Melinda, With your mix of fish, I'd just let the slowly disappear thorough regular water changes. Salt is a good treatment for a myriad of ailments, but with healthy fish, using salt as a prophylactic is not necessary. Aquarium salt is a waste of your money. When you next go grocery shopping, look at the price on kosher salt (also called canning salt) as a comparison. Same basic product, big difference in the price. When you use up your aquarium salt, you can buy a bag of the kosher salt, and, as a bonus, be able to use it in your cooking while waiting for an event when you might need it for your tank. I'd not recommend you cook with the aquarium salt, as it is rather expensive, but you can do that, if you wish to rid yourself of it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 5:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquarium salt question Oh ok, I always read to keep at least 2tbs of aquarium salt in your tank at all times because a little salt helps keep away bacteria and fungus. I'm treating one fish for Ick so I'm keeping some salt in there, but after its cured I wont worry about it then if its not really important. And here's a list of the fish I keep in my 28 gal, if any one wanted to know. McAfee SiteAdvisor Warning This e-mail message contains potentially unsafe links to these sites: fishlore.com more info... 3 cherry barbs,1 Black molly (Has ick),2 Pineapple Platys, 2 Australian rainbowfish,3 Scissor tail, 1 silver molly, 2 Golden Wonder Killie Fish, 3 Kuhli Loaches, and 1 Redeye tetra. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Melinda, Unless you have marine (salt water) fish, this is really of > little concern, as freshwater fish hobbyists are advised not to keep salt in > their tanks. Freshwater fish never evolved having salt in their water (mother > nature never continued to add salt to freshwater streams and lakes every time > it rained), so unless certain situations arise such as needing to treat a > disease, it's best not to keep salt in their water for the most part -- > although you could keep a pinch of water to guard against possible blood > poisoning from unexpected nitrite increases. > > To address part of your statement though, since salt is obviously dissolved > in the water (it doesn't just drop to the bottom of the tank), each time we > remove some of that water as in doing a partial water change, we are also > removing a portion of that dissolved salt. To know approximately how much > salt you are removing, when needing to know how much to replace to keep the > salt level constant when treating fish, you just take note of how much water > (in terms of the percentage of the whole tank's volume) you are removing > during your partial water changes and this will be the same amount -- in > percentage -- of salt you'll be removing with that water. > > In other words, if you have a 12 gallon tank and you add 12 teaspoons of > salt (1 teaspoon of salt per gallon), your total (100%) amount of salt is > obviously 12 teaspoons as I first stated -- there's no trickery or guesswork > connected to that. Now, if you remove 3 gallons of water as your partial water > change routine, in anticipation of making room for the fresh water you'll > be adding, you will be removing 25% of the tank's total water volume. Since > the 12 teaspoons of salt you've added to the water is dissolved and > distributed evenly throughout your 12 gallons, then 25% of this salt will also be > removed along with the 3 gallons of water that you've just removed -- or, > exactly 3 teaspoons of salt will be removed. > > If you want to keep the salt in this tank at the same level (1 teaspooon > per gallon, or 12 teaspoons total), as when treating your fish, then you'd > need to add (replace) this lost 3 teaspoons of salt, as you add the 3 gallons > of fresh water during your partial water change. Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47759	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails (adults at least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, they're laying around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are at least), only a few of the adult snails are still exploring/moving. I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but can't find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both melafix and pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought it would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but in > general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. > Yeeah, I > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > Regardless of > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with them -- > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47760	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

Did you ever figure out what caused the injury. It sounded pretty bad and you need to get, either the decoration or whatever caused the injury out of your tank. Mixing both meds actually causes a stronger antibacterial effect. I'm sure Pimafix would still work as an antifungal also but API does have information on their site about mixing the two for a stronger antibacterial medication. Since you only did a 10% PWC to start with, I'm hoping that your water was already in good shape? It's always a good idea to make sure the tank's water is in good shape before adding any medication. A 10% PWC will not change things very much if it wasn't already in good shape... and if it was in good shape, it would affect things even less. If/When I've ever had to medicate a tank, I did a couple of 25% PWC's, a couple of hours apart, to get the water in good shape first, then start the treatment. Clean water is always the best thing to help a fish feel better. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails (adults at least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, they're laying around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are at least), only a few of the adult snails are still exploring/moving. I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but can't find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both melafix and pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought it would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but in > general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. > Yeeah, I > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > Regardless of > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with them -- > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47761	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

I had done a 25% (possibly more) on monday, and did a filter cleaning that day as well. I figured the water should be in good shape still. I think I have a shell in there that they're getting stuck under, I'm going to pull the shell out and see if the injuries stop. Other than that the only other ornaments are: driftwood, a few halved clay pots for caves, and a hand made little 1" diameter tunnel for the pleco's and their breeding cone. The only thing with possible sharp edges is the shell, so I was just going to take that out. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Did you ever figure out what caused the injury. It sounded pretty bad and > you need to get, either the decoration or whatever caused the injury > out of > your tank. > > Mixing both meds actually causes a stronger antibacterial effect. I'm sure > Pimafix would still work as an antifungal also but API does have > information > on their site about mixing the two for a stronger antibacterial > medication. > > Since you only did a 10% PWC to start with, I'm hoping that your water was > already in good shape? It's always a good idea to make sure the tank's > water is in good shape before adding any medication. A 10% PWC will not > change things very much if it wasn't already in good shape... and if > it was > in good shape, it would affect things even less. If/When I've ever had to > medicate a tank, I did a couple of 25% PWC's, a couple of hours apart, to > get the water in good shape first, then start the treatment. Clean > water is > always the best thing to help a fish feel better. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails > (adults at > least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, they're laying > around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are at least), only a > few of > the adult snails are still exploring/moving. > I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but can't > find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both melafix and > pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought it > would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. > > Amber > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but in > > general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. > > Yeeah, I > > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > > Regardless of > > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with them -- > > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47762	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

Okay I pulled the shell out, and one other shell as well, just to be safe. The injured cory seems to be feeling a little better, it was socializing with one of the males (the injured one is a female from the looks of her, larger than the others and I'm pretty sure she was one of the ones laying eggs this winter, I have 2 larger cory's and 4 smaller cory's that I assume are males). Was doing a little "dance" with one of the males and swimming around the tank a little bit. The red on her side does not seem so dark anymore since I added the meds earlier today. The gash on her gills still looks bad, but less swollen looking, and she doesn't look like she's in so much pain now. Earlier today when I saw her for the first time she was barely moving and laying at an odd angle upside down, that's when I did the water change really quickly and added meds after. I was only at lunch for work so I didn't have enough time to do more than one water change. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Did you ever figure out what caused the injury. It sounded pretty bad and > you need to get, either the decoration or whatever caused the injury > out of > your tank. > > Mixing both meds actually causes a stronger antibacterial effect. I'm sure > Pimafix would still work as an antifungal also but API does have > information > on their site about mixing the two for a stronger antibacterial > medication. > > Since you only did a 10% PWC to start with, I'm hoping that your water was > already in good shape? It's always a good idea to make sure the tank's > water is in good shape before adding any medication. A 10% PWC will not > change things very much if it wasn't already in good shape... and if > it was > in good shape, it would affect things even less. If/When I've ever had to > medicate a tank, I did a couple of 25% PWC's, a couple of hours apart, to > get the water in good shape first, then start the treatment. Clean > water is > always the best thing to help a fish feel better. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails > (adults at > least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, they're laying > around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are at least), only a > few of > the adult snails are still exploring/moving. > I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but can't > find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both melafix and > pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought it > would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. > > Amber > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but in > > general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. > > Yeeah, I > > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > > Regardless of > > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with them -- > > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47763	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

What about the 1/2 clay pot caves? Obviously the main entrance will be OK but is there possibly a side or back door they might be trying to squeeze through that might have a sharper edge. Pushing the rough edges down into the gravel a little would probably keep them from attempting to use the back/side door but fish have also been known to fan away gravel so they could re-open the back/side door. If that is the case, you might have to take that cave out and sand/file down any sharp edges on the edges of the clay pot caves. There's always the chance it was a fight too. Several years ago, on Plecofanatics.com, I saw some vids of some Zebra Plecos fighting over a cave and these two fish beat the hell out of each other over that cave. It looked like they had both been dragged down a street. Most people commenting kind of blasted the fish keeper for filming the fight instead of breaking them up. I guess this is the YouTube world we live in now. Thank God, YouTube wasn't around for most of my stupid young adult moments in life. I do occasionally search YouTube for key words related to some of my antics.... so far, no hits! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory I had done a 25% (possibly more) on monday, and did a filter cleaning that day as well. I figured the water should be in good shape still. I think I have a shell in there that they're getting stuck under, I'm going to pull the shell out and see if the injuries stop. Other than that the only other ornaments are: driftwood, a few halved clay pots for caves, and a hand made little 1" diameter tunnel for the pleco's and their breeding cone. The only thing with possible sharp edges is the shell, so I was just going to take that out. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Did you ever figure out what caused the injury. It sounded pretty bad and > you need to get, either the decoration or whatever caused the injury > out of > your tank. > > Mixing both meds actually causes a stronger antibacterial effect. I'm sure > Pimafix would still work as an antifungal also but API does have > information > on their site about mixing the two for a stronger antibacterial > medication. > > Since you only did a 10% PWC to start with, I'm hoping that your water was > already in good shape? It's always a good idea to make sure the tank's > water is in good shape before adding any medication. A 10% PWC will not > change things very much if it wasn't already in good shape... and if > it was > in good shape, it would affect things even less. If/When I've ever had to > medicate a tank, I did a couple of 25% PWC's, a couple of hours apart, to > get the water in good shape first, then start the treatment. Clean > water is > always the best thing to help a fish feel better. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails > (adults at > least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, they're laying > around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are at least), only a > few of > the adult snails are still exploring/moving. > I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but can't > find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both melafix and > pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought it > would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. > > Amber > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but in > > general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. > > Yeeah, I > > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > > Regardless of > > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with them -- > > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47764	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

Oh I didn't think about the clay pots, I will look at them closer and see if there's any openings. When I push them into the gravel my darn snails (the adults) decide to try to go inside them and end up lifting them back out of the gravel because they're too big to fit inside and push the pots upwards, lol. Perhaps I'll just take them out and use the dremmel to smooth the edges a little. Perhaps it's a good thing no one got any of your younger adult moments on video ;) lol. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What about the 1/2 clay pot caves? Obviously the main entrance will be OK > but is there possibly a side or back door they might be trying to squeeze > through that might have a sharper edge. Pushing the rough edges down into > the gravel a little would probably keep them from attempting to use the > back/side door but fish have also been known to fan away gravel so they > could re-open the back/side door. If that is the case, you might have to > take that cave out and sand/file down any sharp edges on the edges of the > clay pot caves. > > There's always the chance it was a fight too. Several years ago, on > Plecofanatics.com, I saw some vids of some Zebra Plecos fighting over > a cave > and these two fish beat the hell out of each other over that cave. It > looked like they had both been dragged down a street. Most people > commenting kind of blasted the fish keeper for filming the fight > instead of > breaking them up. I guess this is the YouTube world we live in now. Thank > God, YouTube wasn't around for most of my stupid young adult moments in > life. I do occasionally search YouTube for key words related to some of my > antics.... so far, no hits! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > I had done a 25% (possibly more) on monday, and did a filter cleaning that > day as well. I figured the water should be in good shape still. > I think I have a shell in there that they're getting stuck under, I'm > going > to pull the shell out and see if the injuries stop. Other than that > the only > other ornaments are: driftwood, a few halved clay pots for caves, and > a hand > made little 1" diameter tunnel for the pleco's and their breeding > cone. The > only thing with possible sharp edges is the shell, so I was just going to > take that out. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Did you ever figure out what caused the injury. It sounded pretty > bad and > > you need to get, either the decoration or whatever caused the injury > > out of > > your tank. > > > > Mixing both meds actually causes a stronger antibacterial effect. > I'm sure > > Pimafix would still work as an antifungal also but API does have > > information > > on their site about mixing the two for a stronger antibacterial > > medication. > > > > Since you only did a 10% PWC to start with, I'm hoping that your > water was > > already in good shape? It's always a good idea to make sure the tank's > > water is in good shape before adding any medication. A 10% PWC will not > > change things very much if it wasn't already in good shape... and if > > it was > > in good shape, it would affect things even less. If/When I've ever > had to > > medicate a tank, I did a couple of 25% PWC's, a couple of hours > apart, to > > get the water in good shape first, then start the treatment. Clean > > water is > > always the best thing to help a fish feel better. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > > > I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails > > (adults at > > least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, they're laying > > around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are at least), only a > > few of > > the adult snails are still exploring/moving. > > I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but > can't > > find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both > melafix and > > pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought it > > would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. > > > > Amber > > > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but in > > > general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. > > > Yeeah, I > > > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > > > Regardless of > > > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with > them -- > > > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47765	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/8/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

Oh... some are on video... fortunately BetaMax didn't make it! :-P I do remember back in the 90's, a friend of a friend got in touch with me and wanted my OK for them to submit some of their Mardi Gras pics (of me) to a photo contest. I gave the OK but never did hear if any of the pics won. I also occasionally do a Google Image search for key words and so far, I can still run for President one day. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory Oh I didn't think about the clay pots, I will look at them closer and see if there's any openings. When I push them into the gravel my darn snails (the adults) decide to try to go inside them and end up lifting them back out of the gravel because they're too big to fit inside and push the pots upwards, lol. Perhaps I'll just take them out and use the dremmel to smooth the edges a little. Perhaps it's a good thing no one got any of your younger adult moments on video ;) lol. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What about the 1/2 clay pot caves? Obviously the main entrance will be > OK but is there possibly a side or back door they might be trying to > squeeze through that might have a sharper edge. Pushing the rough > edges down into the gravel a little would probably keep them from > attempting to use the back/side door but fish have also been known to > fan away gravel so they could re-open the back/side door. If that is > the case, you might have to take that cave out and sand/file down any > sharp edges on the edges of the clay pot caves. > > There's always the chance it was a fight too. Several years ago, on > Plecofanatics.com, I saw some vids of some Zebra Plecos fighting over > a cave and these two fish beat the hell out of each other over that > cave. It looked like they had both been dragged down a street. Most > people commenting kind of blasted the fish keeper for filming the > fight instead of breaking them up. I guess this is the YouTube world > we live in now. Thank God, YouTube wasn't around for most of my stupid > young adult moments in life. I do occasionally search YouTube for key > words related to some of my antics.... so far, no hits! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > I had done a 25% (possibly more) on monday, and did a filter cleaning > that day as well. I figured the water should be in good shape still. > I think I have a shell in there that they're getting stuck under, I'm > going to pull the shell out and see if the injuries stop. Other than > that the only other ornaments are: driftwood, a few halved clay pots > for caves, and a hand made little 1" diameter tunnel for the pleco's > and their breeding cone. The only thing with possible sharp edges is > the shell, so I was just going to take that out. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Did you ever figure out what caused the injury. It sounded pretty > bad and > > you need to get, either the decoration or whatever caused the injury > > out of your tank. > > > > Mixing both meds actually causes a stronger antibacterial effect. > I'm sure > > Pimafix would still work as an antifungal also but API does have > > information on their site about mixing the two for a stronger > > antibacterial medication. > > > > Since you only did a 10% PWC to start with, I'm hoping that your > water was > > already in good shape? It's always a good idea to make sure the > > tank's water is in good shape before adding any medication. A 10% > > PWC will not change things very much if it wasn't already in good > > shape... and if it was in good shape, it would affect things even > > less. If/When I've ever > had to > > medicate a tank, I did a couple of 25% PWC's, a couple of hours > apart, to > > get the water in good shape first, then start the treatment. Clean > > water is always the best thing to help a fish feel better. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > > > I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails > > (adults at least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, > > they're laying around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are > > at least), only a few of the adult snails are still > > exploring/moving. > > I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but > can't > > find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both > melafix and > > pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought > > it would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. > > > > Amber > > > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but > > > in general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. > > > Yeeah, I > > > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > > > Regardless of > > > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with > them -- > > > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47766	From: Noura	Date: 4/9/2010
Subject: Re: New Filter and Fungus questions

Okey, Thanks Ray. ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Filter and Fungus questions Noura, Don't add any more salt, and the acriflavin should be strong enough as is (without adding any more of it), to carry through for several more days at its present strength. Acriflavin doesn't lose its potency very fast so it shouldn't need repeating. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47767	From: missygreen81	Date: 4/9/2010
Subject: which fish??

we have a jewel delta 300,presently it is stocked with : 3 clown loach(each approx 2" long),2 albino cory,2 leopard cory, 1 albino chinese algae eater(2 1/2 ") 3 rummy nosed tetra, 2 neon tetra, 3 glo lite tetra & 3 danios, I would like to add some colour to the tank with some middle or top feeders, does anybody have any suggestion as to what would go well in our tank? The tank has lots of artificial plants of varying lengths and density, a large 3 holed rock, 3 x airlines fed into it, 2 x large clay urns, and several other 'hidey holes'. any help and suggestions greatfully received tahnks and kind regards linda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47768	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/9/2010
Subject: Re: which fish??

Are you in the UK? Knowing the Jewel tanks are mostly UK/EU distributed, I'm going to presume the 300 is 300 liters... right? If yes, that's about 80G (U.S.). http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/delta336.htm?cat=33 Actually, the website says it's only 270 liters so that would make it around 75G (U.S.) and "Measurements: 123 x 87 x 55 cm" Since it's 123 cm long, that equals around 48" U.S. but the other measurements have me a little befuddled. 87 cm = 34" and 55 cm = 21" so I'm not sure if the foot print is 48" x 34" and then 21" tall or if it's 48" x 21" and 34" tall. Is it a six sided tank? The picture on the website show what looks like a half of a six sided tank. Let us know the foot print and height measurements as that will make a big difference in stocking the tank. The reason I'm asking all of this is so we can give you the best stocking advice. I realize some of your fish are still small but you should not buy fish that will get TOO BIG unless you have immediate plans to get a MUCH LARGER tank. The clown loaches grow to well over 12" long and should be kept in shoals of five or more so they really should be in a 6' long 150G+ sized tank for long term health. They do grow kind of slow so you have time on that species but you don't want to keep them in an undersized tank for too long or they'll get stunted and have related health issues. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Botia_macracanthus.html Same kind of advice for the CAE. As it grows to it's 11" adult size, and it grows much faster than the clown loaches, it can become very aggressive to other fish and doesn't eat algae as much as it matures and has been known to go after the slime coat on wide bodied or slow swimming fish. http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Now, as far as what kinds of other fish to add. Do you know what your tap water parameters are like? Things like pH, GH, KH? If you have a master test kit, do a 48 hour baseline test on your tap water and let us know the numbers. It's best to keep fish that *like* your tap water so that you won't be tempted to be trying to fool with the water chemistry all the time. Here's my detailed article on finding your baseline. http://tinyurl.com/tap-water-baseline for main link: http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of missygreen81 Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] which fish?? we have a jewel delta 300,presently it is stocked with : 3 clown loach(each approx 2" long),2 albino cory,2 leopard cory, 1 albino chinese algae eater(2 1/2 ") 3 rummy nosed tetra, 2 neon tetra, 3 glo lite tetra & 3 danios, I would like to add some colour to the tank with some middle or top feeders, does anybody have any suggestion as to what would go well in our tank? The tank has lots of artificial plants of varying lengths and density, a large 3 holed rock, 3 x airlines fed into it, 2 x large clay urns, and several other 'hidey holes'. any help and suggestions greatfully received tahnks and kind regards linda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47769	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

Definitely not an April Fools Joke. I just loved the fish! )Oscar Chichlids) sp? The pet store told me how quick they grow and how aggressive they are. I settled for 3 angel fish instead at their suggestion. Darn, those Oscars looked so cool but I know I could not offer the care they needed. No April Fools Joke! Just a lover of marine fish who needs so much to learn! I just love fish people. Always have. Just need to know more about them. So thank you for the honest answers that some of you gave! -Joanie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "__A_YAHOO_USER__" <joaniee2003@...> wrote: > > After one bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago I have decided to start a new tank with some Oscar Cichlids. I would like to add a few other fish. > > Can you give me suggestions? > > I was wondering about smaller tetras or neon tetras. > > Thank you. > Joanie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47770	From: melindas	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Ick

I'm still treating my fish for Ick, and I'm following the instructions on the bottle for dosing and then doing a 15-25% water change because that's what is recommends, but the lck has spread to some of my other fish, but its not extreme by the looks of it. Is that normal?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47771	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

Angelfish are pretty aggressive as well, they don't get as big as the oscars, but they get fairly big and quite aggressive. I have a mated pair that I can't keep with any other fish because they pick on them too badly when they go into their breeding mode. Amber __A_YAHOO_USER__ wrote: > > Definitely not an April Fools Joke. I just loved the fish! )Oscar > Chichlids) sp? > The pet store told me how quick they grow and how aggressive they are. > I settled for 3 angel fish instead at their suggestion. > > Darn, those Oscars looked so cool but I know I could not offer the > care they needed. > > No April Fools Joke! Just a lover of marine fish who needs so much to > learn! > > I just love fish people. Always have. Just need to know more about > them. So thank you for the honest answers that some of you gave! > > -Joanie > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "__A_YAHOO_USER__" > <joaniee2003@...> wrote: > > > > After one bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago I have > decided to start a new tank with some Oscar Cichlids. I would like to > add a few other fish. > > > > Can you give me suggestions? > > > > I was wondering about smaller tetras or neon tetras. > > > > Thank you. > > Joanie > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47772	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick

What medicine are you using (just out of curiosity)? Also it's properly spelled "Ich" for short, since it's normally a very long and hard to spell word ;) LOL. It's normal for it to spread to other fish before you get rid of it. I used to have some good links about Ich and how to safely get rid of it, but for some reason my links don't work any more. Hey Lenny got any good links? LOL Amber melindas wrote: > > I'm still treating my fish for Ick, and I'm following the instructions > on the bottle for dosing and then doing a 15-25% water change because > that's what is recommends, but the lck has spread to some of my other > fish, but its not extreme by the looks of it. Is that normal? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47773	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick

Melinda, As Amber asked, what medication are you using? The best cure for ich is to raise your temperature to 84°F and to add salt at the rate of about 1-2 tablespoons per 5 gallons. The heat speeds up their lifecycle, and the salt will kill the critters when they are most vulnerable. The "salt" you see on the fish are the cysts that develop when these parasites have found a host. Eventually, the cyst breaks open, and the parasites sink to the bottom of the tank to start the next generation. At this stage, the parasites are known as trophants. The trophants produce tomites, which are motile and they will swim to find a new host. This is when the parasite is most vulnerable, and the salt does its work. When treated, the infection should be considered cured within 7-10 days, even though you may not see any more cysts before then. Any ich medication that I have seen contains a high percentage of salt. It is the active ingredient here. The other ingredient that can be active against ich in this medication is normally formalin (check the expiration date as formalin has a short life of effectiveness) or methylene blue, a dye that, amazingly enough, is a blue color. Other ingredients are sometimes used. Please do note that this is one of the few maladies that fish are susceptible to that is treated in the tank the fish are living in. Moving the affected fish to a quarantine tank does nothing to protect those who remain behind as a part of the lifecycle of the parasite is in the tank at large, and you will also infect another tank as well by moving the affected fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 4:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ick I'm still treating my fish for Ick, and I'm following the instructions on the bottle for dosing and then doing a 15-25% water change because that's what is recommends, but the lck has spread to some of my other fish, but its not extreme by the looks of it. Is that normal?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47774	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick

Here are a few... but \\Steve// already provided the salt and heat method which is the safest and probably the best method... and it doesn't cost much either. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php (short) http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml (longer) http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Ich.html (longest) Oh yeah.. and "Ich" is short for Ichthyophthirius multifiliis but some products use the term "Ick" as part of their product name like "QuIck Cure", "Ick Guard" and "Ick Clear". The "Ich" is not pronounced like "itch" but rather sounds like "ick" also when pronouncing Ichthyologist.... a branch of Zoology, for a person who studies fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 4:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ick What medicine are you using (just out of curiosity)? Also it's properly spelled "Ich" for short, since it's normally a very long and hard to spell word ;) LOL. It's normal for it to spread to other fish before you get rid of it. I used to have some good links about Ich and how to safely get rid of it, but for some reason my links don't work any more. Hey Lenny got any good links? LOL Amber melindas wrote: > > I'm still treating my fish for Ick, and I'm following the instructions > on the bottle for dosing and then doing a 15-25% water change because > that's what is recommends, but the lck has spread to some of my other > fish, but its not extreme by the looks of it. Is that normal?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47775	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

Did we ever find out what size tank? I remember asking that early on. Those little dime or quarter sized angelfish grow to be the size of dessert plates... plus fins, so they need decent sized tanks and taller tanks as well. (up to 6"+ long and 9"+ tall) http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm (scroll down 1/2 way for the P. scalare which is the "common" angelfish) I know there are exceptions to the rules but they are usually best kept singly or in groups of five or more... until they pair off and then anything can happen... right Amber! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 4:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids? Angelfish are pretty aggressive as well, they don't get as big as the oscars, but they get fairly big and quite aggressive. I have a mated pair that I can't keep with any other fish because they pick on them too badly when they go into their breeding mode. Amber __A_YAHOO_USER__ wrote: > > Definitely not an April Fools Joke. I just loved the fish! )Oscar > Chichlids) sp? > The pet store told me how quick they grow and how aggressive they are. > I settled for 3 angel fish instead at their suggestion. > > Darn, those Oscars looked so cool but I know I could not offer the > care they needed. > > No April Fools Joke! Just a lover of marine fish who needs so much to > learn! > > I just love fish people. Always have. Just need to know more about > them. So thank you for the honest answers that some of you gave! > > -Joanie > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "__A_YAHOO_USER__" > <joaniee2003@...> wrote: > > > > After one bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago I have > decided to start a new tank with some Oscar Cichlids. I would like to > add a few other fish. > > > > Can you give me suggestions? > > > > I was wondering about smaller tetras or neon tetras. > > > > Thank you. > > Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47776	From: melindas	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick

The Meds I am using is Rid Ich+ and it has malachite green in it. I've been trying to turn up the temp but I think my heater is the wrong size, but at least it always keeps the tank at about 77. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Here are a few... but \\Steve// already provided the salt and heat method > which is the safest and probably the best method... and it doesn't cost much > either. > > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php (short) > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml (longer) > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Ich.html (longest) > > Oh yeah.. and "Ich" is short for Ichthyophthirius multifiliis but some > products use the term "Ick" as part of their product name like "QuIck Cure", > "Ick Guard" and "Ick Clear". The "Ich" is not pronounced like "itch" but > rather sounds like "ick" also when pronouncing Ichthyologist.... a branch of > Zoology, for a person who studies fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 4:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ick > > What medicine are you using (just out of curiosity)? Also it's properly > spelled "Ich" for short, since it's normally a very long and hard to spell > word ;) LOL. > It's normal for it to spread to other fish before you get rid of it. > I used to have some good links about Ich and how to safely get rid of it, > but for some reason my links don't work any more. > Hey Lenny got any good links? LOL > > Amber > > melindas wrote: > > > > I'm still treating my fish for Ick, and I'm following the instructions > > on the bottle for dosing and then doing a 15-25% water change because > > that's what is recommends, but the lck has spread to some of my other > > fish, but its not extreme by the looks of it. Is that normal? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47777	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/10/2010
Subject: Re: Ick

While it's a moot point, since your heater only boosts the temperature to 77 o, but I prefer 86 o for treating Ich as above this temperature, Ich can no longer reproduce new tomites to otherwise reinfect the fish (or infect others). At a maximum temperature of 77 o for your heater's capabilities, this leaves little reserve when room temperatures drop down beyond the ability for the heater to keep up with increased demands on it. Depending on the size of the tank, and its tank's volume of water to hold (or release) heat, fluctuations in temperature can be a cause for Ich when the chill is experienced rather quickly. As a heater is the lone safeguard for fishes health in ensuring even, adequate and stress-free temperature ranges, it should be seen as cheap insurance against fish diseases (and possible losses) regardless of what they cost. I would recommend buying a better heater and/or one rated better at maintaining the proper temperature for your tank with some reserve for boosting the temperature in treating fish diseases -- if it can be afforded -- or preferably two smaller (each half the rated needed wattage) heaters as soon as practical as the tank size increases.. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47778	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: Ick

Hi Ray, I can only agree with you on this. In fact many of my tanks have three heaters in them just in case one fails. My tanks are power back-up with UPS units and then the generator. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago On 4/11/2010 12:36 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > While it's a moot point, since your heater only boosts the temperature to > 77 o, but I prefer 86 o for treating Ich as above this temperature, > Ich can > no longer reproduce new tomites to otherwise reinfect the fish (or infect > others). At a maximum temperature of 77 o for your heater's > capabilities, this > leaves little reserve when room temperatures drop down beyond the ability > for the heater to keep up with increased demands on it. Depending on the > size of the tank, and its tank's volume of water to hold (or release) > heat, > fluctuations in temperature can be a cause for Ich when the chill is > experienced rather quickly. As a heater is the lone safeguard for > fishes health in > ensuring even, adequate and stress-free temperature ranges, it should > be seen > as cheap insurance against fish diseases (and possible losses) > regardless of > what they cost. I would recommend buying a better heater and/or one rated > better at maintaining the proper temperature for your tank with some > reserve > for boosting the temperature in treating fish diseases -- if it can be > afforded -- or preferably two smaller (each half the rated needed > wattage) > heaters as soon as practical as the tank size increases.. Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47779	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: UPS Back-up power

Sam, Your post in the Ick thread reminded me of something I've been meaning to post to the group for a while. "Hi Ray, I can only agree with you on this. In fact many of my tanks have three heaters in them just in case one fails. My tanks are power back-up with UPS units and then the generator. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago" In the August 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, one of the "Letters to the Editor" was about a UPS as a backup for a power outage. Now, I have been using them for several years, even using one that was actually for my computer, during the 14 days of no power after Katrina (didn't have a generator then... have one now!!) I was recharging the UPS every day when a friend would come by with his car and let me plug it into his 12V power inverter (I also have one of these now too!) Anyhow.... here's a reprint of PART of the LONG letter to the editor and I wanted to get your and others thoughts. "In the May 2009 issue's "Freshwater Q&A", you suggested using an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to provide backup power during a power outage. This is not necessarily good advice, at least not in the simple way it was presented. Most low-cost computer UPS units do not produce sine-wave power when they switch to battery backup, but square-wave (stepped) power. This is good enough to operate electronic equipment, BUT it is NOT suitable at all for electromagnetic equipment such as filters or air-pumps. Those devices will NOT operate during a power outage when connected to a low-cost UPS, and they may be damaged beyond repair." Back to Lenny... The article goes on to say that a very expensive (costs more than a generator) UPS would provide true sine-wave power... blah, blah, blah. The editor didn't debate the issue at all and kind of gave in to the writer. The author of this letter signed as being in Tel-Aviv, Israel... if that makes a difference. My own personal experience is that my air pumps, HOB's and canister filters all run fine off of my UPS back-ups, as well as any other equipment I have plugged into them, although I do not try to run my heaters or lights off of the UPS, just the filters... but the article still left me curious. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47780	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power

Lenny, Just for ball park reference, a 1500VA sine wave output unit will cost you about $630 MSRP vs. a typical home computer model, also 1500VA, which runs about $220 MSRP. Now, the interesting thing is that this model of a home UPS has a simulated sine wave output. From another manufacturer a 1500VA unit for home use is spec'd to put out a stepped sine wave. MSRP is about $25 more than the first mentioned units. Please do not ask about the difference between VA and Watts in rating UPS units. That is kind of a complex subject. Anyone who goes to the manufacturer sites can get help in sizing the UPS for their needs. A while back, APC was advertising directly to aquarists, so you should be able to get specific help from them, though they are actually more expensive than most others. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] UPS Back-up power Sam, Your post in the Ick thread reminded me of something I've been meaning to post to the group for a while. "Hi Ray, I can only agree with you on this. In fact many of my tanks have three heaters in them just in case one fails. My tanks are power back-up with UPS units and then the generator. Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago" In the August 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, one of the "Letters to the Editor" was about a UPS as a backup for a power outage. Now, I have been using them for several years, even using one that was actually for my computer, during the 14 days of no power after Katrina (didn't have a generator then... have one now!!) I was recharging the UPS every day when a friend would come by with his car and let me plug it into his 12V power inverter (I also have one of these now too!) Anyhow.... here's a reprint of PART of the LONG letter to the editor and I wanted to get your and others thoughts. "In the May 2009 issue's "Freshwater Q&A", you suggested using an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to provide backup power during a power outage. This is not necessarily good advice, at least not in the simple way it was presented. Most low-cost computer UPS units do not produce sine-wave power when they switch to battery backup, but square-wave (stepped) power. This is good enough to operate electronic equipment, BUT it is NOT suitable at all for electromagnetic equipment such as filters or air-pumps. Those devices will NOT operate during a power outage when connected to a low-cost UPS, and they may be damaged beyond repair." Back to Lenny... The article goes on to say that a very expensive (costs more than a generator) UPS would provide true sine-wave power... blah, blah, blah. The editor didn't debate the issue at all and kind of gave in to the writer. The author of this letter signed as being in Tel-Aviv, Israel... if that makes a difference. My own personal experience is that my air pumps, HOB's and canister filters all run fine off of my UPS back-ups, as well as any other equipment I have plugged into them, although I do not try to run my heaters or lights off of the UPS, just the filters... but the article still left me curious. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47781	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power

Hi Steve, With regard to UPS units, I only buy the best ones that I have experience with. Those are the APC brand. Yes, if you go to the store you could buy one for over $600. But if you keep this UPS idea on you mind sooner or later Tiger Direct will sell a nice unit for about $300 for the non-rack type 1500VA Smart UPS. Smart usually means that you can change batteries in your unit when the AC power is on and not shut down the rest of the system- I know this because in broadcasting there are few times you can turn automated programming off these days. Further, as an additional way to save, I check on E bay for the vendor selling used UPS units with brand new batteries and a 1 Yr warranty. I have found these 1500 (APC) units to be reliable and with shipping were about $150 each- I have three of them working at home here. So they may be scuffed or be off color a bit- many units are thrown out due to bad batteries only. Other brands may make claims but I have seen several fail after 1 year due to bad Chinese manufacturing or cheap parts selection. I will not buy Cyber this or that and I also have had a Tripp lite fail out of the box- no more of those for me. it is not so much the power output 1000VA or 1500VA but the run time that I am after as most aquarium equipment takes less than 100W except for heaters. Modified square wave proximation is only of concern to few people as transformers will handle this as well as switching power supplies(Computers). Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago On 4/11/2010 4:26 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lenny, > > Just for ball park reference, a 1500VA sine wave output unit will cost you > about $630 MSRP vs. a typical home computer model, also 1500VA, which runs > about $220 MSRP. Now, the interesting thing is that this model of a > home UPS > has a simulated sine wave output. From another manufacturer a 1500VA unit > for home use is spec'd to put out a stepped sine wave. MSRP is about $25 > more than the first mentioned units. > > Please do not ask about the difference between VA and Watts in rating UPS > units. That is kind of a complex subject. > > Anyone who goes to the manufacturer sites can get help in sizing the > UPS for > their needs. A while back, APC was advertising directly to aquarists, > so you > should be able to get specific help from them, though they are > actually more > expensive than most others. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] UPS Back-up power > > Sam, > > Your post in the Ick thread reminded me of something I've been meaning to > post to the group for a while. > > "Hi Ray, > I can only agree with you on this. In fact many of my tanks have three > heaters in them just in case one fails. My tanks are power back-up > with UPS > units and then the generator. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago" > > In the August 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, > one of > the "Letters to the Editor" was about a UPS as a backup for a power > outage. > Now, I have been using them for several years, even using one that was > actually for my computer, during the 14 days of no power after Katrina > (didn't have a generator then... have one now!!) I was recharging the UPS > every day when a friend would come by with his car and let me plug it into > his 12V power inverter (I also have one of these now too!) Anyhow.... > here's a reprint of PART of the LONG letter to the editor and I wanted to > get your and others thoughts. > > "In the May 2009 issue's "Freshwater Q&A", you suggested using an > uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to provide backup power during a power > outage. This is not necessarily good advice, at least not in the > simple way > it was presented. Most low-cost computer UPS units do not produce > sine-wave > power when they switch to battery backup, but square-wave (stepped) power. > This is good enough to operate electronic equipment, BUT it is NOT > suitable > at all for electromagnetic equipment such as filters or air-pumps. Those > devices will NOT operate during a power outage when connected to a > low-cost > UPS, and they may be damaged beyond repair." > > Back to Lenny... > > The article goes on to say that a very expensive (costs more than a > generator) UPS would provide true sine-wave power... blah, blah, blah. The > editor didn't debate the issue at all and kind of gave in to the writer. > > The author of this letter signed as being in Tel-Aviv, Israel... if that > makes a difference. > > My own personal experience is that my air pumps, HOB's and canister > filters > all run fine off of my UPS back-ups, as well as any other equipment I have > plugged into them, although I do not try to run my heaters or lights > off of > the UPS, just the filters... but the article still left me curious. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47782	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power

Siam, I use both CyberPower and APC. Thus far CP ha had no problems after a few years in the field. The lower quotes were for CP units. I did not quote an APC sine wave unit. One common problem I have seen with APC batteries is that they will swell with age, and with the units manufactured with very close tolerances for battery fit, it can be very difficult to remove them. I've had to retire some APC units because I was unable to remove the batteries for replacement without damaging the unit beyond repair. Third party batteries do not seem to experience this swelling. And most of these swollen batteries are within the expected lifetime of a battery for a UPS, less than 3 years old. I have found that a lot of people have no idea that batteries in UPS units can be replaced, for far less than the cost of a new unit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 5:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UPS Back-up power Hi Steve, With regard to UPS units, I only buy the best ones that I have experience with. Those are the APC brand. Yes, if you go to the store you could buy one for over $600. But if you keep this UPS idea on you mind sooner or later Tiger Direct will sell a nice unit for about $300 for the non-rack type 1500VA Smart UPS. Smart usually means that you can change batteries in your unit when the AC power is on and not shut down the rest of the system- I know this because in broadcasting there are few times you can turn automated programming off these days. Further, as an additional way to save, I check on E bay for the vendor selling used UPS units with brand new batteries and a 1 Yr warranty. I have found these 1500 (APC) units to be reliable and with shipping were about $150 each- I have three of them working at home here. So they may be scuffed or be off color a bit- many units are thrown out due to bad batteries only. Other brands may make claims but I have seen several fail after 1 year due to bad Chinese manufacturing or cheap parts selection. I will not buy Cyber this or that and I also have had a Tripp lite fail out of the box- no more of those for me. it is not so much the power output 1000VA or 1500VA but the run time that I am after as most aquarium equipment takes less than 100W except for heaters. Modified square wave proximation is only of concern to few people as transformers will handle this as well as switching power supplies(Computers). Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago On 4/11/2010 4:26 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lenny, > > Just for ball park reference, a 1500VA sine wave output unit will cost you > about $630 MSRP vs. a typical home computer model, also 1500VA, which runs > about $220 MSRP. Now, the interesting thing is that this model of a > home UPS > has a simulated sine wave output. From another manufacturer a 1500VA unit > for home use is spec'd to put out a stepped sine wave. MSRP is about $25 > more than the first mentioned units. > > Please do not ask about the difference between VA and Watts in rating UPS > units. That is kind of a complex subject. > > Anyone who goes to the manufacturer sites can get help in sizing the > UPS for > their needs. A while back, APC was advertising directly to aquarists, > so you > should be able to get specific help from them, though they are > actually more > expensive than most others. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] UPS Back-up power > > Sam, > > Your post in the Ick thread reminded me of something I've been meaning to > post to the group for a while. > > "Hi Ray, > I can only agree with you on this. In fact many of my tanks have three > heaters in them just in case one fails. My tanks are power back-up > with UPS > units and then the generator. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago" > > In the August 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, > one of > the "Letters to the Editor" was about a UPS as a backup for a power > outage. > Now, I have been using them for several years, even using one that was > actually for my computer, during the 14 days of no power after Katrina > (didn't have a generator then... have one now!!) I was recharging the UPS > every day when a friend would come by with his car and let me plug it into > his 12V power inverter (I also have one of these now too!) Anyhow.... > here's a reprint of PART of the LONG letter to the editor and I wanted to > get your and others thoughts. > > "In the May 2009 issue's "Freshwater Q&A", you suggested using an > uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to provide backup power during a power > outage. This is not necessarily good advice, at least not in the > simple way > it was presented. Most low-cost computer UPS units do not produce > sine-wave > power when they switch to battery backup, but square-wave (stepped) power. > This is good enough to operate electronic equipment, BUT it is NOT > suitable > at all for electromagnetic equipment such as filters or air-pumps. Those > devices will NOT operate during a power outage when connected to a > low-cost > UPS, and they may be damaged beyond repair." > > Back to Lenny... > > The article goes on to say that a very expensive (costs more than a > generator) UPS would provide true sine-wave power... blah, blah, blah. The > editor didn't debate the issue at all and kind of gave in to the writer. > > The author of this letter signed as being in Tel-Aviv, Israel... if that > makes a difference. > > My own personal experience is that my air pumps, HOB's and canister > filters > all run fine off of my UPS back-ups, as well as any other equipment I have > plugged into them, although I do not try to run my heaters or lights > off of > the UPS, just the filters... but the article still left me curious. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47783	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/11/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power

OK. But the UPS' that I have are not any where near the price range you all are talking. Mine are usually under a $100 for the 550 to 750 models (APC) so I'm presuming they're not the sine wave power units yet they still work fine. I've used them many times since Katrina and have changed out the batteries myself, buying batteries off of an eBay sellers website. I have two BIG APC units... probably the 1000 to 1500 range that I picked up for free off a Craigslist listing and I just need batteries for them and I priced them to be around $80 for the batteries... possibly a little less but I can't recall exactly. Back to my original question though... why did this letter to the editor writer seem to insist that filter motors would not run off the cheaper UPS units where my own experience says they run fine? I still have mostly the same filter systems that I had during Katrina and have run them many times on the UPS power, not only for hurricanes but also for occasional power outages from other storms. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UPS Back-up power Hi Steve, With regard to UPS units, I only buy the best ones that I have experience with. Those are the APC brand. Yes, if you go to the store you could buy one for over $600. But if you keep this UPS idea on you mind sooner or later Tiger Direct will sell a nice unit for about $300 for the non-rack type 1500VA Smart UPS. Smart usually means that you can change batteries in your unit when the AC power is on and not shut down the rest of the system- I know this because in broadcasting there are few times you can turn automated programming off these days. Further, as an additional way to save, I check on E bay for the vendor selling used UPS units with brand new batteries and a 1 Yr warranty. I have found these 1500 (APC) units to be reliable and with shipping were about $150 each- I have three of them working at home here. So they may be scuffed or be off color a bit- many units are thrown out due to bad batteries only. Other brands may make claims but I have seen several fail after 1 year due to bad Chinese manufacturing or cheap parts selection. I will not buy Cyber this or that and I also have had a Tripp lite fail out of the box- no more of those for me. it is not so much the power output 1000VA or 1500VA but the run time that I am after as most aquarium equipment takes less than 100W except for heaters. Modified square wave proximation is only of concern to few people as transformers will handle this as well as switching power supplies(Computers). Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago On 4/11/2010 4:26 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lenny, > > Just for ball park reference, a 1500VA sine wave output unit will cost > you about $630 MSRP vs. a typical home computer model, also 1500VA, > which runs about $220 MSRP. Now, the interesting thing is that this > model of a home UPS has a simulated sine wave output. From another > manufacturer a 1500VA unit for home use is spec'd to put out a stepped > sine wave. MSRP is about $25 more than the first mentioned units. > > Please do not ask about the difference between VA and Watts in rating > UPS units. That is kind of a complex subject. > > Anyone who goes to the manufacturer sites can get help in sizing the > UPS for their needs. A while back, APC was advertising directly to > aquarists, so you should be able to get specific help from them, > though they are actually more expensive than most others. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] UPS Back-up power > > Sam, > > Your post in the Ick thread reminded me of something I've been meaning > to post to the group for a while. > > "Hi Ray, > I can only agree with you on this. In fact many of my tanks have three > heaters in them just in case one fails. My tanks are power back-up > with UPS units and then the generator. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago" > > In the August 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, > one of the "Letters to the Editor" was about a UPS as a backup for a > power outage. > Now, I have been using them for several years, even using one that was > actually for my computer, during the 14 days of no power after Katrina > (didn't have a generator then... have one now!!) I was recharging the > UPS every day when a friend would come by with his car and let me plug > it into his 12V power inverter (I also have one of these now too!) Anyhow.... > here's a reprint of PART of the LONG letter to the editor and I wanted > to get your and others thoughts. > > "In the May 2009 issue's "Freshwater Q&A", you suggested using an > uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to provide backup power during a > power outage. This is not necessarily good advice, at least not in the > simple way it was presented. Most low-cost computer UPS units do not > produce sine-wave power when they switch to battery backup, but > square-wave (stepped) power. > This is good enough to operate electronic equipment, BUT it is NOT > suitable at all for electromagnetic equipment such as filters or > air-pumps. Those devices will NOT operate during a power outage when > connected to a low-cost UPS, and they may be damaged beyond repair." > > Back to Lenny... > > The article goes on to say that a very expensive (costs more than a > generator) UPS would provide true sine-wave power... blah, blah, blah. > The editor didn't debate the issue at all and kind of gave in to the writer. > > The author of this letter signed as being in Tel-Aviv, Israel... if > that makes a difference. > > My own personal experience is that my air pumps, HOB's and canister > filters all run fine off of my UPS back-ups, as well as any other > equipment I have plugged into them, although I do not try to run my > heaters or lights off of the UPS, just the filters... but the article > still left me curious. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47784	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: UPS Back-up power

Lenny, I am not readily finding anything that explains the gentleman's argument other than the power delivered to your home is delivered as a sine wave, though it may not be a pure sine wave. Hopefully Sam is trying to come up with an explanation that will be understandable to us mere mortals. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 12:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] UPS Back-up power OK. But the UPS' that I have are not any where near the price range you all are talking. Mine are usually under a $100 for the 550 to 750 models (APC) so I'm presuming they're not the sine wave power units yet they still work fine. I've used them many times since Katrina and have changed out the batteries myself, buying batteries off of an eBay sellers website. I have two BIG APC units... probably the 1000 to 1500 range that I picked up for free off a Craigslist listing and I just need batteries for them and I priced them to be around $80 for the batteries... possibly a little less but I can't recall exactly. Back to my original question though... why did this letter to the editor writer seem to insist that filter motors would not run off the cheaper UPS units where my own experience says they run fine? I still have mostly the same filter systems that I had during Katrina and have run them many times on the UPS power, not only for hurricanes but also for occasional power outages from other storms. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] UPS Back-up power Hi Steve, With regard to UPS units, I only buy the best ones that I have experience with. Those are the APC brand. Yes, if you go to the store you could buy one for over $600. But if you keep this UPS idea on you mind sooner or later Tiger Direct will sell a nice unit for about $300 for the non-rack type 1500VA Smart UPS. Smart usually means that you can change batteries in your unit when the AC power is on and not shut down the rest of the system- I know this because in broadcasting there are few times you can turn automated programming off these days. Further, as an additional way to save, I check on E bay for the vendor selling used UPS units with brand new batteries and a 1 Yr warranty. I have found these 1500 (APC) units to be reliable and with shipping were about $150 each- I have three of them working at home here. So they may be scuffed or be off color a bit- many units are thrown out due to bad batteries only. Other brands may make claims but I have seen several fail after 1 year due to bad Chinese manufacturing or cheap parts selection. I will not buy Cyber this or that and I also have had a Tripp lite fail out of the box- no more of those for me. it is not so much the power output 1000VA or 1500VA but the run time that I am after as most aquarium equipment takes less than 100W except for heaters. Modified square wave proximation is only of concern to few people as transformers will handle this as well as switching power supplies(Computers). Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago On 4/11/2010 4:26 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lenny, > > Just for ball park reference, a 1500VA sine wave output unit will cost > you about $630 MSRP vs. a typical home computer model, also 1500VA, > which runs about $220 MSRP. Now, the interesting thing is that this > model of a home UPS has a simulated sine wave output. From another > manufacturer a 1500VA unit for home use is spec'd to put out a stepped > sine wave. MSRP is about $25 more than the first mentioned units. > > Please do not ask about the difference between VA and Watts in rating > UPS units. That is kind of a complex subject. > > Anyone who goes to the manufacturer sites can get help in sizing the > UPS for their needs. A while back, APC was advertising directly to > aquarists, so you should be able to get specific help from them, > though they are actually more expensive than most others. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka > GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] UPS Back-up power > > Sam, > > Your post in the Ick thread reminded me of something I've been meaning > to post to the group for a while. > > "Hi Ray, > I can only agree with you on this. In fact many of my tanks have three > heaters in them just in case one fails. My tanks are power back-up > with UPS units and then the generator. > > Best regards, > > Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer > Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago" > > In the August 2009 edition of TFH (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) magazine, > one of the "Letters to the Editor" was about a UPS as a backup for a > power outage. > Now, I have been using them for several years, even using one that was > actually for my computer, during the 14 days of no power after Katrina > (didn't have a generator then... have one now!!) I was recharging the > UPS every day when a friend would come by with his car and let me plug > it into his 12V power inverter (I also have one of these now too!) Anyhow.... > here's a reprint of PART of the LONG letter to the editor and I wanted > to get your and others thoughts. > > "In the May 2009 issue's "Freshwater Q&A", you suggested using an > uninterruptible power supply (UPS) to provide backup power during a > power outage. This is not necessarily good advice, at least not in the > simple way it was presented. Most low-cost computer UPS units do not > produce sine-wave power when they switch to battery backup, but > square-wave (stepped) power. > This is good enough to operate electronic equipment, BUT it is NOT > suitable at all for electromagnetic equipment such as filters or > air-pumps. Those devices will NOT operate during a power outage when > connected to a low-cost UPS, and they may be damaged beyond repair." > > Back to Lenny... > > The article goes on to say that a very expensive (costs more than a > generator) UPS would provide true sine-wave power... blah, blah, blah. > The editor didn't debate the issue at all and kind of gave in to the writer. > > The author of this letter signed as being in Tel-Aviv, Israel... if > that makes a difference. > > My own personal experience is that my air pumps, HOB's and canister > filters all run fine off of my UPS back-ups, as well as any other > equipment I have plugged into them, although I do not try to run my > heaters or lights off of the UPS, just the filters... but the article > still left me curious. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47785	From: __A_YAHOO_USER__	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

The three are in a 14 gallon tall tank right now but the fish store told me I'd be ok. Looks like I may have to upgrade down the road. Uh-oh. I hope three is enough. I wasn't planning to get more! Slowly learning! Joanie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Did we ever find out what size tank? I remember asking that early on. > > Those little dime or quarter sized angelfish grow to be the size of dessert > plates... plus fins, so they need decent sized tanks and taller tanks as > well. (up to 6"+ long and 9"+ tall) > http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm (scroll down 1/2 way for the P. > scalare which is the "common" angelfish) > > I know there are exceptions to the rules but they are usually best kept > singly or in groups of five or more... until they pair off and then anything > can happen... right Amber! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 4:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids? > > Angelfish are pretty aggressive as well, they don't get as big as the > oscars, but they get fairly big and quite aggressive. I have a mated pair > that I can't keep with any other fish because they pick on them too badly > when they go into their breeding mode. > > Amber > > __A_YAHOO_USER__ wrote: > > > > Definitely not an April Fools Joke. I just loved the fish! )Oscar > > Chichlids) sp? > > The pet store told me how quick they grow and how aggressive they are. > > I settled for 3 angel fish instead at their suggestion. > > > > Darn, those Oscars looked so cool but I know I could not offer the > > care they needed. > > > > No April Fools Joke! Just a lover of marine fish who needs so much to > > learn! > > > > I just love fish people. Always have. Just need to know more about > > them. So thank you for the honest answers that some of you gave! > > > > -Joanie > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "__A_YAHOO_USER__" > > <joaniee2003@> wrote: > > > > > > After one bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago I have > > decided to start a new tank with some Oscar Cichlids. I would like to > > add a few other fish. > > > > > > Can you give me suggestions? > > > > > > I was wondering about smaller tetras or neon tetras. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > Joanie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47786	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

Well after all my work the poor Cory didn't pull through. I did several different water changes this weekend, cleaned the little HOB's out, the big filter wasn't due for it's cleaning until later today. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What about the 1/2 clay pot caves? Obviously the main entrance will be OK > but is there possibly a side or back door they might be trying to squeeze > through that might have a sharper edge. Pushing the rough edges down into > the gravel a little would probably keep them from attempting to use the > back/side door but fish have also been known to fan away gravel so they > could re-open the back/side door. If that is the case, you might have to > take that cave out and sand/file down any sharp edges on the edges of the > clay pot caves. > > There's always the chance it was a fight too. Several years ago, on > Plecofanatics.com, I saw some vids of some Zebra Plecos fighting over > a cave > and these two fish beat the hell out of each other over that cave. It > looked like they had both been dragged down a street. Most people > commenting kind of blasted the fish keeper for filming the fight > instead of > breaking them up. I guess this is the YouTube world we live in now. Thank > God, YouTube wasn't around for most of my stupid young adult moments in > life. I do occasionally search YouTube for key words related to some of my > antics.... so far, no hits! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > I had done a 25% (possibly more) on monday, and did a filter cleaning that > day as well. I figured the water should be in good shape still. > I think I have a shell in there that they're getting stuck under, I'm > going > to pull the shell out and see if the injuries stop. Other than that > the only > other ornaments are: driftwood, a few halved clay pots for caves, and > a hand > made little 1" diameter tunnel for the pleco's and their breeding > cone. The > only thing with possible sharp edges is the shell, so I was just going to > take that out. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Did you ever figure out what caused the injury. It sounded pretty > bad and > > you need to get, either the decoration or whatever caused the injury > > out of > > your tank. > > > > Mixing both meds actually causes a stronger antibacterial effect. > I'm sure > > Pimafix would still work as an antifungal also but API does have > > information > > on their site about mixing the two for a stronger antibacterial > > medication. > > > > Since you only did a 10% PWC to start with, I'm hoping that your > water was > > already in good shape? It's always a good idea to make sure the tank's > > water is in good shape before adding any medication. A 10% PWC will not > > change things very much if it wasn't already in good shape... and if > > it was > > in good shape, it would affect things even less. If/When I've ever > had to > > medicate a tank, I did a couple of 25% PWC's, a couple of hours > apart, to > > get the water in good shape first, then start the treatment. Clean > > water is > > always the best thing to help a fish feel better. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > > > I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails > > (adults at > > least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, they're laying > > around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are at least), only a > > few of > > the adult snails are still exploring/moving. > > I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but > can't > > find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both > melafix and > > pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought it > > would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. > > > > Amber > > > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but in > > > general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. > > > Yeeah, I > > > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > > > Regardless of > > > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with > them -- > > > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47787	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids?

First lesson to learn; Don't trust the fish store people, take everything they say with a grain of salt, and make sure to research. And remember, we're here to help :) Amber __A_YAHOO_USER__ wrote: > > > The three are in a 14 gallon tall tank right now but the fish store > told me I'd be ok. Looks like I may have to upgrade down the road. > Uh-oh. I hope three is enough. I wasn't planning to get more! > Slowly learning! > Joanie > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" > <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > > > Did we ever find out what size tank? I remember asking that early on. > > > > Those little dime or quarter sized angelfish grow to be the size of > dessert > > plates... plus fins, so they need decent sized tanks and taller tanks as > > well. (up to 6"+ long and 9"+ tall) > > http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm > <http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm> (scroll down 1/2 way for the P. > > scalare which is the "common" angelfish) > > > > I know there are exceptions to the rules but they are usually best kept > > singly or in groups of five or more... until they pair off and then > anything > > can happen... right Amber! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 4:27 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: What can go with Oscar Cichlids? > > > > Angelfish are pretty aggressive as well, they don't get as big as the > > oscars, but they get fairly big and quite aggressive. I have a mated > pair > > that I can't keep with any other fish because they pick on them too > badly > > when they go into their breeding mode. > > > > Amber > > > > __A_YAHOO_USER__ wrote: > > > > > > Definitely not an April Fools Joke. I just loved the fish! )Oscar > > > Chichlids) sp? > > > The pet store told me how quick they grow and how aggressive they are. > > > I settled for 3 angel fish instead at their suggestion. > > > > > > Darn, those Oscars looked so cool but I know I could not offer the > > > care they needed. > > > > > > No April Fools Joke! Just a lover of marine fish who needs so much to > > > learn! > > > > > > I just love fish people. Always have. Just need to know more about > > > them. So thank you for the honest answers that some of you gave! > > > > > > -Joanie > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "__A_YAHOO_USER__" > > > <joaniee2003@> wrote: > > > > > > > > After one bad experience with aggressive fish a while ago I have > > > decided to start a new tank with some Oscar Cichlids. I would like to > > > add a few other fish. > > > > > > > > Can you give me suggestions? > > > > > > > > I was wondering about smaller tetras or neon tetras. > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > Joanie > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47788	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

Sorry he didn't make it. Did you ever find the source/cause of the injury? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 9:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory Well after all my work the poor Cory didn't pull through. I did several different water changes this weekend, cleaned the little HOB's out, the big filter wasn't due for it's cleaning until later today. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > What about the 1/2 clay pot caves? Obviously the main entrance will be > OK but is there possibly a side or back door they might be trying to > squeeze through that might have a sharper edge. Pushing the rough > edges down into the gravel a little would probably keep them from > attempting to use the back/side door but fish have also been known to > fan away gravel so they could re-open the back/side door. If that is > the case, you might have to take that cave out and sand/file down any > sharp edges on the edges of the clay pot caves. > > There's always the chance it was a fight too. Several years ago, on > Plecofanatics.com, I saw some vids of some Zebra Plecos fighting over > a cave and these two fish beat the hell out of each other over that > cave. It looked like they had both been dragged down a street. Most > people commenting kind of blasted the fish keeper for filming the > fight instead of breaking them up. I guess this is the YouTube world > we live in now. Thank God, YouTube wasn't around for most of my stupid > young adult moments in life. I do occasionally search YouTube for key > words related to some of my antics.... so far, no hits! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > I had done a 25% (possibly more) on monday, and did a filter cleaning > that day as well. I figured the water should be in good shape still. > I think I have a shell in there that they're getting stuck under, I'm > going to pull the shell out and see if the injuries stop. Other than > that the only other ornaments are: driftwood, a few halved clay pots > for caves, and a hand made little 1" diameter tunnel for the pleco's > and their breeding cone. The only thing with possible sharp edges is > the shell, so I was just going to take that out. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Did you ever figure out what caused the injury. It sounded pretty > bad and > > you need to get, either the decoration or whatever caused the injury > > out of your tank. > > > > Mixing both meds actually causes a stronger antibacterial effect. > I'm sure > > Pimafix would still work as an antifungal also but API does have > > information on their site about mixing the two for a stronger > > antibacterial medication. > > > > Since you only did a 10% PWC to start with, I'm hoping that your > water was > > already in good shape? It's always a good idea to make sure the > > tank's water is in good shape before adding any medication. A 10% > > PWC will not change things very much if it wasn't already in good > > shape... and if it was in good shape, it would affect things even > > less. If/When I've ever > had to > > medicate a tank, I did a couple of 25% PWC's, a couple of hours > apart, to > > get the water in good shape first, then start the treatment. Clean > > water is always the best thing to help a fish feel better. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > > > I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails > > (adults at least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, > > they're laying around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are > > at least), only a few of the adult snails are still > > exploring/moving. > > I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but > can't > > find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both > melafix and > > pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought > > it would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. > > > > Amber > > > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but > > > in general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of chemicals. > > > Yeeah, I > > > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > > > Regardless of > > > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with > them -- > > > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47789	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/12/2010
Subject: Re: Injured albino aeneus cory

I'm pretty sure it was the shells I removed, but there was one 1/2 clay pot that had an opening on one end that I pushed back down, so it's possible that it could have been the pot too. Either way no more injuries. I'm wondering if it was all an injury though, as it looks like other fish in the tank have red gills. I put in a broad spectrum antibiotic yesterday (erythromycin by API). it says it treats open sores and bacterial gill disease among other stuff (if that's what my other fish really do have). The wounds on the cory look like they could have been hemorrhagic septicemia from the picture on the box of medicine too. Too late now either way since the cory passed on sometime last night. The melafix/pimafix wasn't doing much for the cory that's why I did several PWC's this weekend and then added this med instead, I think it was just a little too late for the Cory. A few of my other cory's have red gills, but no other red marks on their body. And a few of my guppies have red gills as well. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Sorry he didn't make it. Did you ever find the source/cause of the injury? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 9:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > Well after all my work the poor Cory didn't pull through. > I did several different water changes this weekend, cleaned the little > HOB's > out, the big filter wasn't due for it's cleaning until later today. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > What about the 1/2 clay pot caves? Obviously the main entrance will be > > OK but is there possibly a side or back door they might be trying to > > squeeze through that might have a sharper edge. Pushing the rough > > edges down into the gravel a little would probably keep them from > > attempting to use the back/side door but fish have also been known to > > fan away gravel so they could re-open the back/side door. If that is > > the case, you might have to take that cave out and sand/file down any > > sharp edges on the edges of the clay pot caves. > > > > There's always the chance it was a fight too. Several years ago, on > > Plecofanatics.com, I saw some vids of some Zebra Plecos fighting over > > a cave and these two fish beat the hell out of each other over that > > cave. It looked like they had both been dragged down a street. Most > > people commenting kind of blasted the fish keeper for filming the > > fight instead of breaking them up. I guess this is the YouTube world > > we live in now. Thank God, YouTube wasn't around for most of my stupid > > young adult moments in life. I do occasionally search YouTube for key > > words related to some of my antics.... so far, no hits! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > > > I had done a 25% (possibly more) on monday, and did a filter cleaning > > that day as well. I figured the water should be in good shape still. > > I think I have a shell in there that they're getting stuck under, I'm > > going to pull the shell out and see if the injuries stop. Other than > > that the only other ornaments are: driftwood, a few halved clay pots > > for caves, and a hand made little 1" diameter tunnel for the pleco's > > and their breeding cone. The only thing with possible sharp edges is > > the shell, so I was just going to take that out. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Did you ever figure out what caused the injury. It sounded pretty > > bad and > > > you need to get, either the decoration or whatever caused the injury > > > out of your tank. > > > > > > Mixing both meds actually causes a stronger antibacterial effect. > > I'm sure > > > Pimafix would still work as an antifungal also but API does have > > > information on their site about mixing the two for a stronger > > > antibacterial medication. > > > > > > Since you only did a 10% PWC to start with, I'm hoping that your > > water was > > > already in good shape? It's always a good idea to make sure the > > > tank's water is in good shape before adding any medication. A 10% > > > PWC will not change things very much if it wasn't already in good > > > shape... and if it was in good shape, it would affect things even > > > less. If/When I've ever > > had to > > > medicate a tank, I did a couple of 25% PWC's, a couple of hours > > apart, to > > > get the water in good shape first, then start the treatment. Clean > > > water is always the best thing to help a fish feel better. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > > > Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Injured albino aeneus cory > > > > > > I knew that as well, but thanks for the reminder Ray. The snails > > > (adults at least, the babies don't seem affected) are acting oddly, > > > they're laying around on the bottom of the tank (a lot of them are > > > at least), only a few of the adult snails are still > > > exploring/moving. > > > I looked around the tank for the injured cory a few moments ago but > > can't > > > find it, it's probably hiding somewhere. Was dosing with both > > melafix and > > > pimafix okay? I didn't see any sign of fungal infections but thought > > > it would be a safe precaution to use both medicines. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have no idea if Melafix or Pimafix affects shrimp or snails, but > > > > in general invertibrates are more sensitive to any kind of > chemicals. > > > > Yeeah, I > > > > know, Melafix is made of a tea extract, but it does smell strong. > > > > Regardless of > > > > where you have your Cory's, don't even think of adding salt with > > them -- > > > > they can't tolerate much salt. Ray </HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47790	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: sponge filter not getting dirty

For many years, my tank's sponge filter is dirty when I clean it every 2 weeks or so. It is now clean when I clean the filter even though everything else is the same as before (same amount of fish etc.). Any ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47791	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: sponge filter not getting dirty

Is it working properly? Did you change fish foods or the amount you are feeding recently? Did you change filter media (sponge, etc.) recently? Is this sponge filter sitting on the bottom of the tank in a corner? One thought... either the circulation isn't as good so fish poop and detritus is sinking down to the bottom instead of flowing over to the sponge. Another thought.. if you've changed foods.. is the fish are using the food more efficiently and not pooping as much. Another thought is if you've been feeding the same amount and the fish are growing, then they are using up all of the food and not creating as much waste. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tootsie2toes2 Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 10:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] sponge filter not getting dirty For many years, my tank's sponge filter is dirty when I clean it every 2 weeks or so. It is now clean when I clean the filter even though everything else is the same as before (same amount of fish etc.). Any ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47792	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Minor emergency:)

I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt bath quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females at a little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my question is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, but these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour as they are not happy in their bag. Thanks for any feedback on this... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47793	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: sponge filter not getting dirty

For many years, my tank's sponge filter is dirty when I clean it every 2 weeks or so. It is now clean when I clean the filter even though everything else is the same as before (same amount of fish etc.). Any ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47794	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: sponge filter not getting dirty

Have you changed what you are feeding them? -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: tootsie2toes2 <tootsie2toes2@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 8:37 am Subject: [AquaticLife] sponge filter not getting dirty For many years, my tank's sponge filter is dirty when I clean it every 2 weeks or so. It is now clean when I clean the filter even though everything else is the same as before (same amount of fish etc.). Any ideas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47795	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)

You can overstock a tank (temporarilly) if you do more water changes and filter cleanings than you would normally do (once a week on your current regularly stocked tanks). If you don't want to keep them long term and do water changes more often then I would suggest getting a rubbermaid tub from walmart and a cheap HOB filter from walmart if you don't have a spare laying around, and another heater, keep these handy later when you have them empty as they make a good emergency tank or Q tank. If you have cats I'd recommend keeping the tub up off the floor where they can't get to it ;) Don't want them going fishing while you're not looking, LOL. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am > have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt bath > quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females at a > little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round > out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very > generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and > now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once > they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my question > is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF > and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, but > these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they > generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > > I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour > as they are not happy in their bag. > > Thanks for any feedback on this... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47796	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)

If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase their body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass for each time they double their length but in my own experience, the same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to physically weight/measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, Oscars, Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to equal one 8" fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure body mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to adulthood. Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, according to FishBase, http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12376, that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that down further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish to equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" fish, and the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it would take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of these Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. Since you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not say what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the exact species to learn more about their needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult size, which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have eight of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would technically be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* there is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I see is with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may have to be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep the bioload from becoming a problem. Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you would have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt bath quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females at a little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my question is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, but these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour as they are not happy in their bag. Thanks for any feedback on this... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47797	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)

Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for many years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. They sure seem small. But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in the 20 long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be able to since they're so teensy. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > guideline > articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" Per > Gallon Fish > Killing Rule" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > replace-1-per. > html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase > their body > mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass for > each > time they double their length but in my own experience, the same > formula > works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to physically weight/ > measure > smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, Oscars, Koi, etc. That said, it > would > take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to > equal a 2" > fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to equal > one 8" > fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > larger > fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure body > mass on > smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to adulthood. > > Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, > according > to FishBase, http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > id=12376, > that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that down > further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish > to equal a > 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" fish, and the > progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it would take > around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > > So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY > works > with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of these > Ender Tetras > would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. Since you have > 17, that > would be around 8.5G of water. > > You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not > say what > species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species that > fall > into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are over 600 > species > in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the exact species to > learn > more about their needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > > As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current > sizes > when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult size, which > according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have eight of > them, > that's 12 gallons of bioload. > > So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would > technically be > using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is well > maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* there is > a higher > bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream Loaches > are one of > the smaller species. The main problem that I see is with them dang > livebearers if they start over producing and in a planted tank, > many more of > the babies will survive so you may have to be regularly netting and > moving > the adult H. formosa fish to keep the bioload from becoming a problem. > > Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer > without > explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you would have > believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > > I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I > am have > two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > formosa are > going in there although right now they are in a salt bath > quarantine curing > their fungus. Of the HF there are five females at a little under > one inch > and three males at about a half inch. To round out the tank I > purchased ten > ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very generously, the vendor sent me > 17! So I > have ten in the 20 long and now an extra seven sitting in a bag, > needing to > go somewhere. Once they go into my planted tanks they may never > come out. So > my question is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long > with the > HF and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 > inches, but > these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they > generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > > I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the > hour as they > are not happy in their bag. > > Thanks for any feedback on this... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47798	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)

Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that Loaches.com has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same common name. I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, Butterfly Loach - no hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=5439 so I guess that's the problem. A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a dozen fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the two previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see if one of them is your fish. http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php?crit1_fieldnam e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_value=be aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&crit2_oper ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for many years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. They sure seem small. But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in the 20 long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be able to since they're so teensy. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" > Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > replace-1-per. > html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase their > body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass > for each time they double their length but in my own experience, the > same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, Oscars, > Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a > 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to equal one > 8" > fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure body > mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to adulthood. > > Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, > according to FishBase, > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > id=12376, > that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that down > further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish to > equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" fish, and > the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it would > take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > > So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY > works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of these > Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. Since > you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > > You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not say > what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species > that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are > over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the > exact species to learn more about their needs. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > > As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current > sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult size, > which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have eight > of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > > So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would technically > be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is > well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* there > is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream > Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I see is > with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a > planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may have to > be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep the > bioload from becoming a problem. > > Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer > without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you would > have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > > I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am > have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt bath > quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females at a > little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round > out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very > generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and > now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once > they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my question > is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF > and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, but > these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they > generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > > I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour > as they are not happy in their bag. > > Thanks for any feedback on this... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47799	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)

Actually, if he's half way accurate, it sheds a lot of light... although this following profile on Loaches.com says they grow to 3"+. Since they are wide bodied fish, that adds to their bioload but still, at least they do stay under or around the 3" mark so they fit in the one gallon per inch guideline. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis Check out the profile and photos and see if this is what you have. So, counting them two as 6G, the H. amandae as 5G and the H. formosa as 12G, you're just a little overstocked... roughly 20%. If you do weekly 30% PWC's, instead of 25% PWC's, that should compensate for the added bioload. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). You know that nitrate levels, algae levels, filter media fouling, etc., will all further help you determine if you need to increase tank maintenance. Here's the TinyURL for my blog article link which broke in the earlier post... damn Yahoo!!! http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking, which I just updated again with some more info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for many years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. They sure seem small. But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in the 20 long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be able to since they're so teensy. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" > Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase their > body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass > for each time they double their length but in my own experience, the > same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, Oscars, > Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a > 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to equal one > 8" > fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure body > mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to adulthood. > > Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, > according to FishBase, > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12376, > that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that down > further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish to > equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" fish, and > the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it would > take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > > So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY > works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of these > Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. Since > you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > > You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not say > what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species > that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are > over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the > exact species to learn more about their needs. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > > As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current > sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult size, > which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have eight > of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > > So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would technically > be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is > well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* there > is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream > Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I see is > with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a > planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may have to > be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep the > bioload from becoming a problem. > > Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer > without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you would > have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > > I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am > have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt bath > quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females at a > little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round > out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very > generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and > now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once > they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my question > is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF > and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, but > these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they > generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > > I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour > as they are not happy in their bag. > > Thanks for any feedback on this... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47800	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)

I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the address at fishbase for some reason. Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. > > http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm > > Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as > Beaufortia > levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that Loaches.com has so > there's a > couple of that Genera that shares the same common name. > > I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese > Butterfly > Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, Butterfly Loach > - no > hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. > > Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, > "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > id=5439 so > I guess that's the problem. > > A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a dozen > fish in > that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the two previously > listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see if one of them is > your > fish. > > http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR > > http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? > crit1_fieldnam > e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_va > lue=be > aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&crit > 2_oper > ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > > Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I > have, but > the man I bought them from has kept this species for many years and > says it > does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese butterfly plecos, > as a > common name, which I know means nothing. > > I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let > seven of > them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. > > They sure seem small. > > But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in the > 20 long if > the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be able to > since > they're so teensy. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > > guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" > > Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > > replace-1-per. > > html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase > their > > body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass > > for each time they double their length but in my own experience, the > > same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > > physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, > Oscars, > > Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a > > 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > > fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to > equal one > > 8" > > fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > > larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure > body > > mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to > adulthood. > > > > Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, > > according to FishBase, > > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > > id=12376, > > that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that > down > > further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish to > > equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" > fish, and > > the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it > would > > take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > > > > So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY > > works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of > these > > Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. > Since > > you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > > > > You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not > say > > what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species > > that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are > > over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the > > exact species to learn more about their needs. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > > > > As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current > > sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult > size, > > which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have > eight > > of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > > > > So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would technically > > be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is > > well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* > there > > is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream > > Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I > see is > > with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a > > planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may > have to > > be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep > the > > bioload from becoming a problem. > > > > Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer > > without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you > would > > have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > > > > I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am > > have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > > formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt > bath > > quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females > at a > > little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round > > out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very > > generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and > > now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once > > they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my > question > > is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF > > and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, > but > > these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they > > generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > > > > I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour > > as they are not happy in their bag. > > > > Thanks for any feedback on this... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47801	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Minor emergency:)

I don't think I have this beaufortia, the patterns on mine are a little different. I'll try to get a photo. Most of the planted tank folks want me to do 50% WC each week due to the random nature of plant fertilizers. I am monitoring parameters closely to get the hang of the ferts, so I think I'll be OK. Also, I'm laying off nitrogen ferts to let the plants eat the fish waste more, and this seems to be working well. I test for nitrates each day. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Actually, if he's half way accurate, it sheds a lot of light... > although > this following profile on Loaches.com says they grow to 3"+. Since > they are > wide bodied fish, that adds to their bioload but still, at least > they do > stay under or around the 3" mark so they fit in the one gallon per > inch > guideline. > > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/beaufortia-kweichowensis > > Check out the profile and photos and see if this is what you have. > > So, counting them two as 6G, the H. amandae as 5G and the H. > formosa as 12G, > you're just a little overstocked... roughly 20%. If you do weekly 30% > PWC's, instead of 25% PWC's, that should compensate for the added > bioload. > YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). > > You know that nitrate levels, algae levels, filter media fouling, > etc., will > all further help you determine if you need to increase tank > maintenance. > > Here's the TinyURL for my blog article link which broke in the earlier > post... damn Yahoo!!! > http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking, which I just updated again > with some > more info. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > > Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I > have, but > the man I bought them from has kept this species for many years and > says it > does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese butterfly plecos, > as a > common name, which I know means nothing. > > I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let > seven of > them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. > > They sure seem small. > > But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in the > 20 long if > the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be able to > since > they're so teensy. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > > guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" > > Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > replace-1-per. > html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase their > > body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass > > for each time they double their length but in my own experience, the > > same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > > physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, > Oscars, > > Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a > > 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > > fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to > equal one > > 8" > > fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > > larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure > body > > mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to > adulthood. > > > > Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, > > according to FishBase, > > http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12376, > > that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that > down > > further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish to > > equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" > fish, and > > the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it > would > > take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > > > > So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY > > works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of > these > > Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. > Since > > you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > > > > You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not > say > > what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species > > that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are > > over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the > > exact species to learn more about their needs. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > > > > As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current > > sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult > size, > > which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have > eight > > of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > > > > So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would technically > > be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is > > well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* > there > > is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream > > Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I > see is > > with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a > > planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may > have to > > be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep > the > > bioload from becoming a problem. > > > > Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer > > without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you > would > > have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > > > > I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am > > have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > > formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt > bath > > quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females > at a > > little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round > > out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very > > generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and > > now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once > > they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my > question > > is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF > > and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, > but > > these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they > > generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > > > > I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour > > as they are not happy in their bag. > > > > Thanks for any feedback on this... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47802	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Hillstream loach ID

This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the full name. It's gastromyzon something. http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- Gastromyzon.jpg Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the > address at fishbase for some reason. > > Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. >> >> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm >> >> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as >> Beaufortia >> levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that Loaches.com has so >> there's a >> couple of that Genera that shares the same common name. >> >> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese >> Butterfly >> Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, Butterfly Loach >> - no >> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. >> >> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, >> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? >> id=5439 so >> I guess that's the problem. >> >> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a dozen >> fish in >> that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the two previously >> listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see if one of them is >> your >> fish. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR >> >> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? >> crit1_fieldnam >> e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v >> a >> lue=be >> aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri >> t >> 2_oper >> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >> >> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I >> have, but >> the man I bought them from has kept this species for many years and >> says it >> does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese butterfly plecos, >> as a >> common name, which I know means nothing. >> >> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let >> seven of >> them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. >> >> They sure seem small. >> >> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in the >> 20 long if >> the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be able to >> since >> they're so teensy. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking >>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" >>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" >>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- >>> replace-1-per. >>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase >> their >>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass >>> for each time they double their length but in my own experience, the >>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to >>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, >> Oscars, >>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a >>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" >>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to >> equal one >>> 8" >>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with >>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure >> body >>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to >> adulthood. >>> >>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, >>> according to FishBase, >>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? >>> id=12376, >>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that >> down >>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish to >>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" >> fish, and >>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it >> would >>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. >>> >>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY >>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of >> these >>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. >> Since >>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. >>> >>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not >> say >>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species >>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are >>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the >>> exact species to learn more about their needs. >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach >>> >>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current >>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult >> size, >>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have >> eight >>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. >>> >>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would technically >>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is >>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* >> there >>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream >>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I >> see is >>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a >>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may >> have to >>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep >> the >>> bioload from becoming a problem. >>> >>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer >>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you >> would >>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) >>> >>> Lenny Vasbinder >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >> alphabetically >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>> Month) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>> >>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am >>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria >>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt >> bath >>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females >> at a >>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round >>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very >>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and >>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once >>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my >> question >>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF >>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, >> but >>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they >>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? >>> >>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour >>> as they are not happy in their bag. >>> >>> Thanks for any feedback on this... >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47803	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Dechlor

When doing water changes should the amount of dechlor being used be bases on amount of water being replaced or total volume on tank? - I'm using a python for the pwc. Alex Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47804	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that make up the group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so that's not helping a lot. If you go back to the Wikipedia article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the various Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon... unfortunately, there's about 30 species... so to the next search. Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the names Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - aquarticles.com hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the hits and the authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream Loach, Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, you'll see your picture right near the top of that article with the Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach-Gastromyzo n.jpg I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures to find that image... or was that image also used on another website but not properly attributed/identified? Here's another article that you might like reading. http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-i n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi (Maximum size - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/need fast flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them this in your tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking limits, meaning more fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you have easy to grow plants in the tank that can do well with the lower CO2 levels to be expected in a HIGH O2 level environment. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the full name. It's gastromyzon something. http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach-Gastromyzo n.jpg Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the > address at fishbase for some reason. > > Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. >> >> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm >> >> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as >> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that Loaches.com >> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same common >> name. >> >> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese >> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, >> Butterfly Loach >> - no >> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. >> >> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, >> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? >> id=5439 so >> I guess that's the problem. >> >> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a dozen >> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the two >> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see if one >> of them is your fish. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR >> >> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? >> crit1_fieldnam >> e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v >> a >> lue=be >> aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri >> t >> 2_oper >> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >> >> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I >> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for many >> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese >> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. >> >> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let >> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. >> >> They sure seem small. >> >> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in the 20 >> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be >> able to since they're so teensy. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking >>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" >>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" >>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- >>> replace-1-per. >>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase >> their >>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass >>> for each time they double their length but in my own experience, the >>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to >>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, >> Oscars, >>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a >>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" >>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to >> equal one >>> 8" >>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with >>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure >> body >>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to >> adulthood. >>> >>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, >>> according to FishBase, >>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? >>> id=12376, >>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that >> down >>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish to >>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" >> fish, and >>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it >> would >>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. >>> >>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY >>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of >> these >>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. >> Since >>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. >>> >>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not >> say >>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species >>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are >>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the >>> exact species to learn more about their needs. >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach >>> >>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current >>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult >> size, >>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have >> eight >>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. >>> >>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would technically >>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is >>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* >> there >>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream >>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I >> see is >>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a >>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may >> have to >>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep >> the >>> bioload from becoming a problem. >>> >>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer >>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you >> would >>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) >>> >>> Lenny Vasbinder >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >> alphabetically >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>> Month) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>> >>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am >>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria >>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt >> bath >>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females >> at a >>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round >>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very >>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and >>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once >>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my >> question >>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF >>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, >> but >>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they >>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? >>> >>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour >>> as they are not happy in their bag. >>> >>> Thanks for any feedback on this... >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47805	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Dechlor

Only the amount being added to the tank. The water in the tank is already dechlored... or at least it should be. Some folks regularly overdose dechlor on a regular basis (against my advice) but if they ever sit down and do the math, over the course of many months and years, it could build up the dechlor level quite a bit in a tank. For example, using a higher percentage for simplicity. If you add 10% of chemical A to a tank, it then has 90% water and 10% chemical A. If you do a 25% PWC, you're removing 25% of the water and 25% of the chemical so you end up with 7.5% of Chemical A in the remaining water. Then, if you top off the tank with water AS WELL AS adding a full dose of Chemical A (meaning 10% again), you would now have 17.5% of Chemical A in the tank and only 82.5% water. Another PWC and Chemical A's percentage is up over 25%.. and the cycle continues to where there is a LOT more Chemical A in the tank than was ever intended. Now, those numbers above are much more exaggerated than the miniscule amount of dechlor product that we use as a percentage of the total amount of water in our tanks but still, I don't think it's a good idea to constantly overdose. Now, if you overdose only once for the treatment of higher levels of ammonia/nitrite, as some dechlors advertise they do, and then do a series of PWC's using the proper amount for only the replacement water, the percentage will come back down to a normal dechlor level after several PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:40 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Dechlor When doing water changes should the amount of dechlor being used be bases on amount of water being replaced or total volume on tank? - I'm using a python for the pwc. Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47806	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

For some annoying reason, I am not able to open any of these links. But, it does seem like I have pseudogastromyzon myersi and this would explain why my three loaches are only two inches. They are all doing really well in my tanks, although I do have lots of CO2 for the plants. I run my filters at the waterline, though, and turn off CO2 at night, so this aerates the water for them. It sounds like two of these pseudo. myersi plus seven ember tetras and eight heterandria will work out fine in the 20 long. Thanks very much. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that make up > the > group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so > that's not > helping a lot. > > If you go back to the Wikipedia article, > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the > various > Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon... > unfortunately, > there's about 30 species... so to the next search. > > Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the names > Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - aquarticles.com > hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the hits and > the > authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream Loach, > Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/ > Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, > you'll see your picture right near the top of that article with the > Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, > http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- > Gastromyzo > n.jpg > > I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures > to find > that image... or was that image also used on another website but not > properly attributed/identified? > > Here's another article that you might like reading. > http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists- > at-life-i > n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l > > And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi > (Maximum size > - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. > > Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/ > need fast > flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them this > in your > tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking limits, > meaning more > fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you have easy to grow > plants in > the tank that can do well with the lower CO2 levels to be expected > in a HIGH > O2 level environment. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID > > This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the > full > name. It's gastromyzon something. > > http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- > Gastromyzo > n.jpg > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the > > address at fishbase for some reason. > > > > Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > >> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. > >> > >> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm > >> > >> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as > >> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that Loaches.com > >> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same common > >> name. > >> > >> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese > >> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, > >> Butterfly Loach > >> - no > >> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. > >> > >> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, > >> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > >> id=5439 so > >> I guess that's the problem. > >> > >> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a dozen > >> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the two > >> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see if one > >> of them is your fish. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR > >> > >> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? > >> crit1_fieldnam > >> > e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v > >> a > >> lue=be > >> > aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri > >> t > >> 2_oper > >> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >> > >> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I > >> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for many > >> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese > >> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. > >> > >> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let > >> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. > >> > >> They sure seem small. > >> > >> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in > the 20 > >> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be > >> able to since they're so teensy. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >> > >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > >>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace > The 1" > >>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > >>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > >>> replace-1-per. > >>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase > >> their > >>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body > mass > >>> for each time they double their length but in my own > experience, the > >>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > >>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, > >> Oscars, > >>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to > equal a > >>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > >>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to > >> equal one > >>> 8" > >>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > >>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure > >> body > >>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to > >> adulthood. > >>> > >>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, > >>> according to FishBase, > >>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > >>> id=12376, > >>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that > >> down > >>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" > fish to > >>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" > >> fish, and > >>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it > >> would > >>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > >>> > >>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which > ONLY > >>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of > >> these > >>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. > >> Since > >>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > >>> > >>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not > >> say > >>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many > species > >>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are > >>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out > the > >>> exact species to learn more about their needs. > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > >>> > >>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their > current > >>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult > >> size, > >>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have > >> eight > >>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > >>> > >>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would > technically > >>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the > tank is > >>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* > >> there > >>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your > Hillstream > >>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I > >> see is > >>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a > >>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may > >> have to > >>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep > >> the > >>> bioload from becoming a problem. > >>> > >>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an > answer > >>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you > >> would > >>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies > home. ;-) > >>> > >>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >> alphabetically > >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>> Month) > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>> > >>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and > I am > >>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > >>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt > >> bath > >>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females > >> at a > >>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To > round > >>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very > >>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long > and > >>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once > >>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my > >> question > >>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with > the HF > >>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, > >> but > >>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload > they > >>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > >>> > >>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the > hour > >>> as they are not happy in their bag. > >>> > >>> Thanks for any feedback on this... > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47807	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Check out www.loaches.com They have a picture index and an alphabetical index. I think you have one of these myself: http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the > full name. It's gastromyzon something. > > http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- > <http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach-> > Gastromyzon.jpg > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the > > address at fishbase for some reason. > > > > Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > >> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. > >> > >> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm > <http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm> > >> > >> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as > >> Beaufortia > >> levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that Loaches.com has so > >> there's a > >> couple of that Genera that shares the same common name. > >> > >> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese > >> Butterfly > >> Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, Butterfly Loach > >> - no > >> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. > >> > >> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, > >> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > <http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?> > >> id=5439 so > >> I guess that's the problem. > >> > >> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a dozen > >> fish in > >> that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the two previously > >> listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see if one of them is > >> your > >> fish. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny <http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny> FOR > >> > >> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? > <http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php?> > >> crit1_fieldnam > >> e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v > >> a > >> lue=be > >> aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri > >> t > >> 2_oper > >> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > >> right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >> > >> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I > >> have, but > >> the man I bought them from has kept this species for many years and > >> says it > >> does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese butterfly plecos, > >> as a > >> common name, which I know means nothing. > >> > >> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let > >> seven of > >> them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. > >> > >> They sure seem small. > >> > >> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in the > >> 20 long if > >> the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be able to > >> since > >> they're so teensy. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > >>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" > >>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > >>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-> > >>> replace-1-per. > >>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase > >> their > >>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass > >>> for each time they double their length but in my own experience, the > >>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > >>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, > >> Oscars, > >>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a > >>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > >>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to > >> equal one > >>> 8" > >>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > >>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure > >> body > >>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to > >> adulthood. > >>> > >>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, > >>> according to FishBase, > >>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?> > >>> id=12376, > >>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that > >> down > >>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish to > >>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" > >> fish, and > >>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it > >> would > >>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > >>> > >>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY > >>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of > >> these > >>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. > >> Since > >>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > >>> > >>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not > >> say > >>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species > >>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are > >>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the > >>> exact species to learn more about their needs. > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach> > >>> > >>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current > >>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult > >> size, > >>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have > >> eight > >>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > >>> > >>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would technically > >>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is > >>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* > >> there > >>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream > >>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I > >> see is > >>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a > >>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may > >> have to > >>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep > >> the > >>> bioload from becoming a problem. > >>> > >>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer > >>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you > >> would > >>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) > >>> > >>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >> alphabetically > >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>> Month) > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>> > >>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am > >>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > >>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt > >> bath > >>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females > >> at a > >>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round > >>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very > >>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and > >>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once > >>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my > >> question > >>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF > >>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, > >> but > >>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they > >>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > >>> > >>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour > >>> as they are not happy in their bag. > >>> > >>> Thanks for any feedback on this... > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47808	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Or possibly one of these. http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-cheni Take a look and see what you think of the two types, since you have your fish in person you can look at it better than the picture we get to see ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the > full name. It's gastromyzon something. > > http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- > <http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach-> > Gastromyzon.jpg > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the > > address at fishbase for some reason. > > > > Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > >> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. > >> > >> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm > <http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm> > >> > >> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as > >> Beaufortia > >> levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that Loaches.com has so > >> there's a > >> couple of that Genera that shares the same common name. > >> > >> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese > >> Butterfly > >> Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, Butterfly Loach > >> - no > >> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. > >> > >> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, > >> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > <http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?> > >> id=5439 so > >> I guess that's the problem. > >> > >> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a dozen > >> fish in > >> that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the two previously > >> listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see if one of them is > >> your > >> fish. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny <http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny> FOR > >> > >> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? > <http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php?> > >> crit1_fieldnam > >> e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v > >> a > >> lue=be > >> aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri > >> t > >> 2_oper > >> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > >> right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >> > >> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I > >> have, but > >> the man I bought them from has kept this species for many years and > >> says it > >> does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese butterfly plecos, > >> as a > >> common name, which I know means nothing. > >> > >> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let > >> seven of > >> them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. > >> > >> They sure seem small. > >> > >> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in the > >> 20 long if > >> the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be able to > >> since > >> they're so teensy. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > >>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace The 1" > >>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > >>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-> > >>> replace-1-per. > >>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase > >> their > >>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body mass > >>> for each time they double their length but in my own experience, the > >>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > >>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, > >> Oscars, > >>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to equal a > >>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > >>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to > >> equal one > >>> 8" > >>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > >>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure > >> body > >>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to > >> adulthood. > >>> > >>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, > >>> according to FishBase, > >>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > <http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?> > >>> id=12376, > >>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that > >> down > >>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" fish to > >>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" > >> fish, and > >>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it > >> would > >>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > >>> > >>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which ONLY > >>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of > >> these > >>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. > >> Since > >>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > >>> > >>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not > >> say > >>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many species > >>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are > >>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out the > >>> exact species to learn more about their needs. > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach> > >>> > >>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their current > >>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult > >> size, > >>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have > >> eight > >>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > >>> > >>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would technically > >>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the tank is > >>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* > >> there > >>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your Hillstream > >>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I > >> see is > >>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a > >>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may > >> have to > >>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep > >> the > >>> bioload from becoming a problem. > >>> > >>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an answer > >>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you > >> would > >>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies home. ;-) > >>> > >>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles > >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >> alphabetically > >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>> Month) > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>> > >>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and I am > >>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > >>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt > >> bath > >>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females > >> at a > >>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To round > >>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very > >>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long and > >>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once > >>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my > >> question > >>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with the HF > >>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, > >> but > >>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload they > >>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > >>> > >>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the hour > >>> as they are not happy in their bag. > >>> > >>> Thanks for any feedback on this... > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47809	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Check out the links I sent Lainey, they might work for you, I sent one of both the myersi and the cheni, both look very very similar and are very hard to tell apart, leading to misidentification of the two fish quite often. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > For some annoying reason, I am not able to open any of these links. > But, it does seem like I have pseudogastromyzon myersi and this would > explain why my three loaches are only two inches. > > They are all doing really well in my tanks, although I do have lots > of CO2 for the plants. I run my filters at the waterline, though, and > turn off CO2 at night, so this aerates the water for them. > > It sounds like two of these pseudo. myersi plus seven ember tetras > and eight heterandria will work out fine in the 20 long. > > Thanks very much. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that make up >> the >> group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so >> that's not >> helping a lot. >> >> If you go back to the Wikipedia article, >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the >> various >> Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon... >> unfortunately, >> there's about 30 species... so to the next search. >> >> Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the names >> Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - aquarticles.com >> hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the hits and >> the >> authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream Loach, >> Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, >> http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/ >> Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, >> you'll see your picture right near the top of that article with the >> Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, >> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- >> Gastromyzo >> n.jpg >> >> I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures >> to find >> that image... or was that image also used on another website but not >> properly attributed/identified? >> >> Here's another article that you might like reading. >> http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists- >> at-life-i >> n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l >> >> And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. >> http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi >> (Maximum size >> - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. >> >> Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/ >> need fast >> flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them this >> in your >> tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking limits, >> meaning more >> fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you have easy to grow >> plants in >> the tank that can do well with the lower CO2 levels to be expected >> in a HIGH >> O2 level environment. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID >> >> This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the >> full >> name. It's gastromyzon something. >> >> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- >> Gastromyzo >> n.jpg >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> >>> I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the >>> address at fishbase for some reason. >>> >>> Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. >>>> >>>> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm >>>> >>>> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as >>>> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that Loaches.com >>>> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same common >>>> name. >>>> >>>> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese >>>> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, >>>> Butterfly Loach >>>> - no >>>> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. >>>> >>>> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, >>>> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? >>>> id=5439 so >>>> I guess that's the problem. >>>> >>>> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a dozen >>>> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the two >>>> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see if one >>>> of them is your fish. >>>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR >>>> >>>> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? >>>> crit1_fieldnam >>>> >>>> >> e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v >> >>>> a >>>> lue=be >>>> >>>> >> aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri >> >>>> t >>>> 2_oper >>>> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 >>>> >>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>> Month) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>>> >>>> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I >>>> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for many >>>> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese >>>> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. >>>> >>>> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let >>>> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. >>>> >>>> They sure seem small. >>>> >>>> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in >>>> >> the 20 >> >>>> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be >>>> able to since they're so teensy. >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>> >>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking >>>>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace >>>>> >> The 1" >> >>>>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" >>>>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- >>>>> replace-1-per. >>>>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase >>>>> >>>> their >>>> >>>>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body >>>>> >> mass >> >>>>> for each time they double their length but in my own >>>>> >> experience, the >> >>>>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to >>>>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, >>>>> >>>> Oscars, >>>> >>>>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to >>>>> >> equal a >> >>>>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" >>>>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to >>>>> >>>> equal one >>>> >>>>> 8" >>>>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with >>>>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure >>>>> >>>> body >>>> >>>>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to >>>>> >>>> adulthood. >>>> >>>>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, >>>>> according to FishBase, >>>>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? >>>>> id=12376, >>>>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that >>>>> >>>> down >>>> >>>>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" >>>>> >> fish to >> >>>>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" >>>>> >>>> fish, and >>>> >>>>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it >>>>> >>>> would >>>> >>>>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. >>>>> >>>>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which >>>>> >> ONLY >> >>>>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of >>>>> >>>> these >>>> >>>>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. >>>>> >>>> Since >>>> >>>>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. >>>>> >>>>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not >>>>> >>>> say >>>> >>>>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many >>>>> >> species >> >>>>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are >>>>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out >>>>> >> the >> >>>>> exact species to learn more about their needs. >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach >>>>> >>>>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their >>>>> >> current >> >>>>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult >>>>> >>>> size, >>>> >>>>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have >>>>> >>>> eight >>>> >>>>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. >>>>> >>>>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would >>>>> >> technically >> >>>>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the >>>>> >> tank is >> >>>>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* >>>>> >>>> there >>>> >>>>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your >>>>> >> Hillstream >> >>>>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I >>>>> >>>> see is >>>> >>>>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a >>>>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may >>>>> >>>> have to >>>> >>>>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep >>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>>> bioload from becoming a problem. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an >>>>> >> answer >> >>>>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you >>>>> >>>> would >>>> >>>>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies >>>>> >> home. ;-) >> >>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>>> >>>> alphabetically >>>> >>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>>> Month) >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>>>> >>>>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and >>>>> >> I am >> >>>>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria >>>>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt >>>>> >>>> bath >>>> >>>>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females >>>>> >>>> at a >>>> >>>>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To >>>>> >> round >> >>>>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very >>>>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long >>>>> >> and >> >>>>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once >>>>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my >>>>> >>>> question >>>> >>>>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with >>>>> >> the HF >> >>>>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, >>>>> >>>> but >>>> >>>>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload >>>>> >> they >> >>>>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? >>>>> >>>>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the >>>>> >> hour >> >>>>> as they are not happy in their bag. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any feedback on this... >>>>> >>>>> Lainey >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47810	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Yes, thank you, I think I don't have cheni and do have the myersi. The only thing that doesn't look right is that blue under the red on the dorsal. I've never seen the blue before. Do you think if mine don't have the blue then I don't have this species? Or do you think maybe it's just not visible on all specimens? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Check out the links I sent Lainey, they might work for you, I sent one > of both the myersi and the cheni, both look very very similar and are > very hard to tell apart, leading to misidentification of the two fish > quite often. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > For some annoying reason, I am not able to open any of these links. > > But, it does seem like I have pseudogastromyzon myersi and this > would > > explain why my three loaches are only two inches. > > > > They are all doing really well in my tanks, although I do have lots > > of CO2 for the plants. I run my filters at the waterline, though, > and > > turn off CO2 at night, so this aerates the water for them. > > > > It sounds like two of these pseudo. myersi plus seven ember tetras > > and eight heterandria will work out fine in the 20 long. > > > > Thanks very much. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > >> Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that make up > >> the > >> group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so > >> that's not > >> helping a lot. > >> > >> If you go back to the Wikipedia article, > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the > >> various > >> Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon... > >> unfortunately, > >> there's about 30 species... so to the next search. > >> > >> Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the > names > >> Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - aquarticles.com > >> hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the hits and > >> the > >> authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream > Loach, > >> Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, > >> http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/ > >> Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, > >> you'll see your picture right near the top of that article with the > >> Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, > >> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- > >> Gastromyzo > >> n.jpg > >> > >> I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures > >> to find > >> that image... or was that image also used on another website but > not > >> properly attributed/identified? > >> > >> Here's another article that you might like reading. > >> http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists- > >> at-life-i > >> n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l > >> > >> And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. > >> http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi > >> (Maximum size > >> - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. > >> > >> Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/ > >> need fast > >> flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them this > >> in your > >> tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking limits, > >> meaning more > >> fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you have easy to grow > >> plants in > >> the tank that can do well with the lower CO2 levels to be expected > >> in a HIGH > >> O2 level environment. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > >> right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID > >> > >> This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the > >> full > >> name. It's gastromyzon something. > >> > >> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- > >> Gastromyzo > >> n.jpg > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >> > >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the > >>> address at fishbase for some reason. > >>> > >>> Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm > >>>> > >>>> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as > >>>> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that > Loaches.com > >>>> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same > common > >>>> name. > >>>> > >>>> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese > >>>> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, > >>>> Butterfly Loach > >>>> - no > >>>> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. > >>>> > >>>> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, > >>>> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/ > SpeciesSummary.php? > >>>> id=5439 so > >>>> I guess that's the problem. > >>>> > >>>> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a > dozen > >>>> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the > two > >>>> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see > if one > >>>> of them is your fish. > >>>> > >>>> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR > >>>> > >>>> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? > >>>> crit1_fieldnam > >>>> > >>>> > >> > e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v > >> > >>>> a > >>>> lue=be > >>>> > >>>> > >> > aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri > >> > >>>> t > >>>> 2_oper > >>>> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 > >>>> > >>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>>> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>>> Month) > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM > >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>>> > >>>> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I > >>>> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for > many > >>>> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them > Chinese > >>>> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. > >>>> > >>>> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let > >>>> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. > >>>> > >>>> They sure seem small. > >>>> > >>>> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in > >>>> > >> the 20 > >> > >>>> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not > even be > >>>> able to since they're so teensy. > >>>> > >>>> Lainey > >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>> > >>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > >>>>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace > >>>>> > >> The 1" > >> > >>>>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > >>>>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > >>>>> replace-1-per. > >>>>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase > >>>>> > >>>> their > >>>> > >>>>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body > >>>>> > >> mass > >> > >>>>> for each time they double their length but in my own > >>>>> > >> experience, the > >> > >>>>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > >>>>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, > >>>>> > >>>> Oscars, > >>>> > >>>>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to > >>>>> > >> equal a > >> > >>>>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > >>>>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to > >>>>> > >>>> equal one > >>>> > >>>>> 8" > >>>>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > >>>>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately > measure > >>>>> > >>>> body > >>>> > >>>>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to > >>>>> > >>>> adulthood. > >>>> > >>>>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around > 2 cm, > >>>>> according to FishBase, > >>>>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > >>>>> id=12376, > >>>>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that > >>>>> > >>>> down > >>>> > >>>>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" > >>>>> > >> fish to > >> > >>>>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" > >>>>> > >>>> fish, and > >>>> > >>>>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it > >>>>> > >>>> would > >>>> > >>>>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > >>>>> > >>>>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which > >>>>> > >> ONLY > >> > >>>>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of > >>>>> > >>>> these > >>>> > >>>>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. > >>>>> > >>>> Since > >>>> > >>>>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > >>>>> > >>>>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do > not > >>>>> > >>>> say > >>>> > >>>>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many > >>>>> > >> species > >> > >>>>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, > there are > >>>>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out > >>>>> > >> the > >> > >>>>> exact species to learn more about their needs. > >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > >>>>> > >>>>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their > >>>>> > >> current > >> > >>>>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult > >>>>> > >>>> size, > >>>> > >>>>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have > >>>>> > >>>> eight > >>>> > >>>>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > >>>>> > >>>>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would > >>>>> > >> technically > >> > >>>>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the > >>>>> > >> tank is > >> > >>>>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* > >>>>> > >>>> there > >>>> > >>>>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your > >>>>> > >> Hillstream > >> > >>>>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I > >>>>> > >>>> see is > >>>> > >>>>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a > >>>>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may > >>>>> > >>>> have to > >>>> > >>>>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to > keep > >>>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>>> bioload from becoming a problem. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an > >>>>> > >> answer > >> > >>>>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you > >>>>> > >>>> would > >>>> > >>>>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies > >>>>> > >> home. ;-) > >> > >>>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>>>> > >>>> alphabetically > >>>> > >>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>>>> Month) > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>>>> > >>>>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and > >>>>> > >> I am > >> > >>>>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight > heterandria > >>>>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt > >>>>> > >>>> bath > >>>> > >>>>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females > >>>>> > >>>> at a > >>>> > >>>>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To > >>>>> > >> round > >> > >>>>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). > Very > >>>>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long > >>>>> > >> and > >> > >>>>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. > Once > >>>>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my > >>>>> > >>>> question > >>>> > >>>>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with > >>>>> > >> the HF > >> > >>>>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 > inches, > >>>>> > >>>> but > >>>> > >>>>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload > >>>>> > >> they > >> > >>>>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so > tiny? > >>>>> > >>>>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the > >>>>> > >> hour > >> > >>>>> as they are not happy in their bag. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for any feedback on this... > >>>>> > >>>>> Lainey > >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47811	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

The cheni doesn't have blue on it's fin, did you see that pic? it's nearly identical as the myersi except that blue stripe. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Yes, thank you, I think I don't have cheni and do have the myersi. > The only thing that doesn't look right is that blue under the red on > the dorsal. I've never seen the blue before. Do you think if mine > don't have the blue then I don't have this species? Or do you think > maybe it's just not visible on all specimens? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Check out the links I sent Lainey, they might work for you, I sent one >> of both the myersi and the cheni, both look very very similar and are >> very hard to tell apart, leading to misidentification of the two fish >> quite often. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> For some annoying reason, I am not able to open any of these links. >>> But, it does seem like I have pseudogastromyzon myersi and this >>> >> would >> >>> explain why my three loaches are only two inches. >>> >>> They are all doing really well in my tanks, although I do have lots >>> of CO2 for the plants. I run my filters at the waterline, though, >>> >> and >> >>> turn off CO2 at night, so this aerates the water for them. >>> >>> It sounds like two of these pseudo. myersi plus seven ember tetras >>> and eight heterandria will work out fine in the 20 long. >>> >>> Thanks very much. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that make up >>>> the >>>> group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so >>>> that's not >>>> helping a lot. >>>> >>>> If you go back to the Wikipedia article, >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the >>>> various >>>> Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon... >>>> unfortunately, >>>> there's about 30 species... so to the next search. >>>> >>>> Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the >>>> >> names >> >>>> Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - aquarticles.com >>>> hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the hits and >>>> the >>>> authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream >>>> >> Loach, >> >>>> Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/ >>>> Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, >>>> you'll see your picture right near the top of that article with the >>>> Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- >>>> Gastromyzo >>>> n.jpg >>>> >>>> I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures >>>> to find >>>> that image... or was that image also used on another website but >>>> >> not >> >>>> properly attributed/identified? >>>> >>>> Here's another article that you might like reading. >>>> http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists- >>>> at-life-i >>>> n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l >>>> >>>> And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. >>>> http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi >>>> (Maximum size >>>> - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. >>>> >>>> Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/ >>>> need fast >>>> flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them this >>>> in your >>>> tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking limits, >>>> meaning more >>>> fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you have easy to grow >>>> plants in >>>> the tank that can do well with the lower CO2 levels to be expected >>>> in a HIGH >>>> O2 level environment. >>>> >>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >>>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >>>> right >>>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>> Month) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >>>> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID >>>> >>>> This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the >>>> full >>>> name. It's gastromyzon something. >>>> >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- >>>> Gastromyzo >>>> n.jpg >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>> >>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the >>>>> address at fishbase for some reason. >>>>> >>>>> Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. >>>>> >>>>> Lainey >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as >>>>>> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that >>>>>> >> Loaches.com >> >>>>>> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same >>>>>> >> common >> >>>>>> name. >>>>>> >>>>>> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese >>>>>> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, >>>>>> Butterfly Loach >>>>>> - no >>>>>> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, >>>>>> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/ >>>>>> >> SpeciesSummary.php? >> >>>>>> id=5439 so >>>>>> I guess that's the problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a >>>>>> >> dozen >> >>>>>> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the >>>>>> >> two >> >>>>>> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see >>>>>> >> if one >> >>>>>> of them is your fish. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR >>>>>> >>>>>> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? >>>>>> crit1_fieldnam >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v >> >>>>>> a >>>>>> lue=be >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri >> >>>>>> t >>>>>> 2_oper >>>>>> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 >>>>>> >>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>>>> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>>>> Month) >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey >>>>>> >> Alexander >> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM >>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I >>>>>> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for >>>>>> >> many >> >>>>>> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them >>>>>> >> Chinese >> >>>>>> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let >>>>>> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. >>>>>> >>>>>> They sure seem small. >>>>>> >>>>>> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> the 20 >>>> >>>> >>>>>> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not >>>>>> >> even be >> >>>>>> able to since they're so teensy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lainey >>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking >>>>>>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> The 1" >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" >>>>>>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- >>>>>>> replace-1-per. >>>>>>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> their >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> mass >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> for each time they double their length but in my own >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> experience, the >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to >>>>>>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Oscars, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> equal a >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" >>>>>>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> equal one >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> 8" >>>>>>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with >>>>>>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately >>>>>>> >> measure >> >>>>>> body >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> adulthood. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around >>>>>>> >> 2 cm, >> >>>>>>> according to FishBase, >>>>>>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? >>>>>>> id=12376, >>>>>>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> down >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> fish to >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> fish, and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> would >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> ONLY >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> these >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Since >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do >>>>>>> >> not >> >>>>>> say >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> species >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, >>>>>>> >> there are >> >>>>>>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> exact species to learn more about their needs. >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> current >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> size, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> eight >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> technically >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> tank is >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> there >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> Hillstream >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> see is >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a >>>>>>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> have to >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to >>>>>>> >> keep >> >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> bioload from becoming a problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> answer >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> would >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> home. ;-) >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> alphabetically >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>>>>> Month) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey >>>>>>> >> Alexander >> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> I am >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight >>>>>>> >> heterandria >> >>>>>>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> bath >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> at a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> round >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). >>>>>>> >> Very >> >>>>>>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. >>>>>>> >> Once >> >>>>>>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> question >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> the HF >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 >>>>>>> >> inches, >> >>>>>> but >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> they >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so >>>>>>> >> tiny? >> >>>>>>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> hour >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> as they are not happy in their bag. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback on this... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lainey >>>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47812	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Your picture looks like the cheni to me, from the colors on the dorsal fin. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Yes, thank you, I think I don't have cheni and do have the myersi. > The only thing that doesn't look right is that blue under the red on > the dorsal. I've never seen the blue before. Do you think if mine > don't have the blue then I don't have this species? Or do you think > maybe it's just not visible on all specimens? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Check out the links I sent Lainey, they might work for you, I sent one >> of both the myersi and the cheni, both look very very similar and are >> very hard to tell apart, leading to misidentification of the two fish >> quite often. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> For some annoying reason, I am not able to open any of these links. >>> But, it does seem like I have pseudogastromyzon myersi and this >>> >> would >> >>> explain why my three loaches are only two inches. >>> >>> They are all doing really well in my tanks, although I do have lots >>> of CO2 for the plants. I run my filters at the waterline, though, >>> >> and >> >>> turn off CO2 at night, so this aerates the water for them. >>> >>> It sounds like two of these pseudo. myersi plus seven ember tetras >>> and eight heterandria will work out fine in the 20 long. >>> >>> Thanks very much. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that make up >>>> the >>>> group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so >>>> that's not >>>> helping a lot. >>>> >>>> If you go back to the Wikipedia article, >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the >>>> various >>>> Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon... >>>> unfortunately, >>>> there's about 30 species... so to the next search. >>>> >>>> Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the >>>> >> names >> >>>> Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - aquarticles.com >>>> hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the hits and >>>> the >>>> authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream >>>> >> Loach, >> >>>> Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/ >>>> Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, >>>> you'll see your picture right near the top of that article with the >>>> Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- >>>> Gastromyzo >>>> n.jpg >>>> >>>> I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures >>>> to find >>>> that image... or was that image also used on another website but >>>> >> not >> >>>> properly attributed/identified? >>>> >>>> Here's another article that you might like reading. >>>> http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists- >>>> at-life-i >>>> n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l >>>> >>>> And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. >>>> http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi >>>> (Maximum size >>>> - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. >>>> >>>> Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/ >>>> need fast >>>> flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them this >>>> in your >>>> tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking limits, >>>> meaning more >>>> fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you have easy to grow >>>> plants in >>>> the tank that can do well with the lower CO2 levels to be expected >>>> in a HIGH >>>> O2 level environment. >>>> >>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >>>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >>>> right >>>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>> Month) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >>>> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID >>>> >>>> This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the >>>> full >>>> name. It's gastromyzon something. >>>> >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- >>>> Gastromyzo >>>> n.jpg >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>> >>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the >>>>> address at fishbase for some reason. >>>>> >>>>> Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. >>>>> >>>>> Lainey >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as >>>>>> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that >>>>>> >> Loaches.com >> >>>>>> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same >>>>>> >> common >> >>>>>> name. >>>>>> >>>>>> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese >>>>>> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, >>>>>> Butterfly Loach >>>>>> - no >>>>>> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, >>>>>> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/ >>>>>> >> SpeciesSummary.php? >> >>>>>> id=5439 so >>>>>> I guess that's the problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a >>>>>> >> dozen >> >>>>>> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the >>>>>> >> two >> >>>>>> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see >>>>>> >> if one >> >>>>>> of them is your fish. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR >>>>>> >>>>>> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? >>>>>> crit1_fieldnam >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v >> >>>>>> a >>>>>> lue=be >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri >> >>>>>> t >>>>>> 2_oper >>>>>> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 >>>>>> >>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>>>> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>>>> Month) >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey >>>>>> >> Alexander >> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM >>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I >>>>>> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for >>>>>> >> many >> >>>>>> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them >>>>>> >> Chinese >> >>>>>> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let >>>>>> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. >>>>>> >>>>>> They sure seem small. >>>>>> >>>>>> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> the 20 >>>> >>>> >>>>>> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not >>>>>> >> even be >> >>>>>> able to since they're so teensy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lainey >>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking >>>>>>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> The 1" >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" >>>>>>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- >>>>>>> replace-1-per. >>>>>>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> their >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> mass >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> for each time they double their length but in my own >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> experience, the >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to >>>>>>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Oscars, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> equal a >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" >>>>>>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> equal one >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> 8" >>>>>>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with >>>>>>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately >>>>>>> >> measure >> >>>>>> body >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> adulthood. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around >>>>>>> >> 2 cm, >> >>>>>>> according to FishBase, >>>>>>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? >>>>>>> id=12376, >>>>>>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> down >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> fish to >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> fish, and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> would >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> ONLY >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> these >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Since >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do >>>>>>> >> not >> >>>>>> say >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> species >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, >>>>>>> >> there are >> >>>>>>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> exact species to learn more about their needs. >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> current >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> size, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> eight >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> technically >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> tank is >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> there >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> Hillstream >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> see is >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a >>>>>>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> have to >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to >>>>>>> >> keep >> >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> bioload from becoming a problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> answer >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> would >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> home. ;-) >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> alphabetically >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>>>>> Month) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey >>>>>>> >> Alexander >> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> I am >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight >>>>>>> >> heterandria >> >>>>>>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> bath >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> at a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> round >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). >>>>>>> >> Very >> >>>>>>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. >>>>>>> >> Once >> >>>>>>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> question >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> the HF >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 >>>>>>> >> inches, >> >>>>>> but >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> they >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so >>>>>>> >> tiny? >> >>>>>>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> hour >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> as they are not happy in their bag. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback on this... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lainey >>>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47813	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Maybe it's just the photos, but the cheni body markings don't look like my fish. The myersi body markings look just like the fish I have. I guess I'll have to try and get some good pictures. Maybe I don't have either one! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 9:38 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Your picture looks like the cheni to me, from the colors on the > dorsal fin. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Yes, thank you, I think I don't have cheni and do have the myersi. > > The only thing that doesn't look right is that blue under the red on > > the dorsal. I've never seen the blue before. Do you think if mine > > don't have the blue then I don't have this species? Or do you think > > maybe it's just not visible on all specimens? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> Check out the links I sent Lainey, they might work for you, I > sent one > >> of both the myersi and the cheni, both look very very similar > and are > >> very hard to tell apart, leading to misidentification of the two > fish > >> quite often. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >>> For some annoying reason, I am not able to open any of these > links. > >>> But, it does seem like I have pseudogastromyzon myersi and this > >>> > >> would > >> > >>> explain why my three loaches are only two inches. > >>> > >>> They are all doing really well in my tanks, although I do have > lots > >>> of CO2 for the plants. I run my filters at the waterline, though, > >>> > >> and > >> > >>> turn off CO2 at night, so this aerates the water for them. > >>> > >>> It sounds like two of these pseudo. myersi plus seven ember tetras > >>> and eight heterandria will work out fine in the 20 long. > >>> > >>> Thanks very much. > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that > make up > >>>> the > >>>> group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so > >>>> that's not > >>>> helping a lot. > >>>> > >>>> If you go back to the Wikipedia article, > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the > >>>> various > >>>> Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon... > >>>> unfortunately, > >>>> there's about 30 species... so to the next search. > >>>> > >>>> Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the > >>>> > >> names > >> > >>>> Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - > aquarticles.com > >>>> hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the > hits and > >>>> the > >>>> authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream > >>>> > >> Loach, > >> > >>>> Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, > >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/ > >>>> Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, > >>>> you'll see your picture right near the top of that article > with the > >>>> Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, > >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream- > Loach- > >>>> Gastromyzo > >>>> n.jpg > >>>> > >>>> I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures > >>>> to find > >>>> that image... or was that image also used on another website but > >>>> > >> not > >> > >>>> properly attributed/identified? > >>>> > >>>> Here's another article that you might like reading. > >>>> http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the- > specialists- > >>>> at-life-i > >>>> n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l > >>>> > >>>> And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. > >>>> http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi > >>>> (Maximum size > >>>> - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. > >>>> > >>>> Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/ > >>>> need fast > >>>> flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them > this > >>>> in your > >>>> tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking limits, > >>>> meaning more > >>>> fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you have easy to grow > >>>> plants in > >>>> the tank that can do well with the lower CO2 levels to be > expected > >>>> in a HIGH > >>>> O2 level environment. > >>>> > >>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >>>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the > >>>> right > >>>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > >>>> Month) > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >>>> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM > >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID > >>>> > >>>> This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to > get the > >>>> full > >>>> name. It's gastromyzon something. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream- > Loach- > >>>> Gastromyzo > >>>> n.jpg > >>>> > >>>> Lainey > >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>> > >>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the > >>>>> address at fishbase for some reason. > >>>>> > >>>>> Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. > >>>>> > >>>>> Lainey > >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>>> > >>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as > >>>>>> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that > >>>>>> > >> Loaches.com > >> > >>>>>> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same > >>>>>> > >> common > >> > >>>>>> name. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese > >>>>>> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, > >>>>>> Butterfly Loach > >>>>>> - no > >>>>>> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common > name, > >>>>>> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/ > >>>>>> > >> SpeciesSummary.php? > >> > >>>>>> id=5439 so > >>>>>> I guess that's the problem. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a > >>>>>> > >> dozen > >> > >>>>>> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the > >>>>>> > >> two > >> > >>>>>> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see > >>>>>> > >> if one > >> > >>>>>> of them is your fish. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? > >>>>>> crit1_fieldnam > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v > >> > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> lue=be > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri > >> > >>>>>> t > >>>>>> 2_oper > >>>>>> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > articles > >>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>>>>> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>>>>> Month) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > >>>>>> > >> Alexander > >> > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM > >>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream > loaches I > >>>>>> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for > >>>>>> > >> many > >> > >>>>>> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them > >>>>>> > >> Chinese > >> > >>>>>> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to > let > >>>>>> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They sure seem small. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> the 20 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not > >>>>>> > >> even be > >> > >>>>>> able to since they're so teensy. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lainey > >>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > >>>>>>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> The 1" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > >>>>>>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > >>>>>>> replace-1-per. > >>>>>>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and > increase > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> their > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in > body > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> mass > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> for each time they double their length but in my own > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> experience, the > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > >>>>>>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Oscars, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> equal a > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > >>>>>>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> equal one > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> 8" > >>>>>>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways > with > >>>>>>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately > >>>>>>> > >> measure > >> > >>>>>> body > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> adulthood. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around > >>>>>>> > >> 2 cm, > >> > >>>>>>> according to FishBase, > >>>>>>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > >>>>>>> id=12376, > >>>>>>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking > that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> down > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> fish to > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> fish, and > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate > that it > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> would > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> ONLY > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), > 20 of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> these > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their > bioload. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Since > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do > >>>>>>> > >> not > >> > >>>>>> say > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> species > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, > >>>>>>> > >> there are > >> > >>>>>>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find > out > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> exact species to learn more about their needs. > >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> current > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected > adult > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> size, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you > have > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> eight > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> technically > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> tank is > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one > *knows* > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> there > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> Hillstream > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem > that I > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> see is > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and > in a > >>>>>>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> have to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to > >>>>>>> > >> keep > >> > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> bioload from becoming a problem. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> answer > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not > like you > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> would > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> home. ;-) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > articles > >>>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> alphabetically > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>>>>>> Month) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > >>>>>>> > >> Alexander > >> > >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams > and > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> I am > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight > >>>>>>> > >> heterandria > >> > >>>>>>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a > salt > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> bath > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five > females > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> at a > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> round > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). > >>>>>>> > >> Very > >> > >>>>>>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 > long > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. > >>>>>>> > >> Once > >> > >>>>>>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> question > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> the HF > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 > >>>>>>> > >> inches, > >> > >>>>>> but > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much > bioload > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> they > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so > >>>>>>> > >> tiny? > >> > >>>>>>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within > the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> hour > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> as they are not happy in their bag. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback on this... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Lainey > >>>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> > >> Thank You. > >> > >>> ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > >>> > >> ((((�> > >> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >> subject)" <- > >> > >>> <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > >>> > >> ��`�.��. > >> > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > >>> > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > >>> > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > >> and post replies. > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > >>> > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47814	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Dechlor

And this is the case even when adding the water directly? Not putting in bucket first, treating and dumping it in tank? Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry� -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:14:21 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dechlor Only the amount being added to the tank. The water in the tank is already dechlored... or at least it should be. Some folks regularly overdose dechlor on a regular basis (against my advice) but if they ever sit down and do the math, over the course of many months and years, it could build up the dechlor level quite a bit in a tank. For example, using a higher percentage for simplicity. If you add 10% of chemical A to a tank, it then has 90% water and 10% chemical A. If you do a 25% PWC, you're removing 25% of the water and 25% of the chemical so you end up with 7.5% of Chemical A in the remaining water. Then, if you top off the tank with water AS WELL AS adding a full dose of Chemical A (meaning 10% again), you would now have 17.5% of Chemical A in the tank and only 82.5% water. Another PWC and Chemical A's percentage is up over 25%.. and the cycle continues to where there is a LOT more Chemical A in the tank than was ever intended. Now, those numbers above are much more exaggerated than the miniscule amount of dechlor product that we use as a percentage of the total amount of water in our tanks but still, I don't think it's a good idea to constantly overdose. Now, if you overdose only once for the treatment of higher levels of ammonia/nitrite, as some dechlors advertise they do, and then do a series of PWC's using the proper amount for only the replacement water, the percentage will come back down to a normal dechlor level after several PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:40 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Dechlor When doing water changes should the amount of dechlor being used be bases on amount of water being replaced or total volume on tank? - I'm using a python for the pwc. Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47815	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Dechlor

Yes, it's the same in any case. Many of us use Python's or other refill methods besides the bucket brigade and I simply add the appropriate amount of dechlor to my tank prior to starting the refill process. Just make sure, when you're refilling, that the water coming out of the Python is splashing, either on a glass panel or into the top of the water, as it enters the tank, and that it's not going into the tank near one of your filter intakes so the dechlor product has a chance to work before the chlorinated water gets sucked directly into the filter. When doing a 25%-30% type PWC, this is fine. I guess if I was doing a 90% PWC, which I never do anyhow, I would pre-treat the water so or add the dechlor in stages so that you're not dumping an overdose of dechlor into only 10% of the water and then filling it up the other 90%. This should NOT be done unless one is absolutely certain their incoming water has the same water parameters as the tank's water, otherwise shock issues could easily happen to the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 8:38 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dechlor And this is the case even when adding the water directly? Not putting in bucket first, treating and dumping it in tank? Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:14:21 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dechlor Only the amount being added to the tank. The water in the tank is already dechlored... or at least it should be. Some folks regularly overdose dechlor on a regular basis (against my advice) but if they ever sit down and do the math, over the course of many months and years, it could build up the dechlor level quite a bit in a tank. For example, using a higher percentage for simplicity. If you add 10% of chemical A to a tank, it then has 90% water and 10% chemical A. If you do a 25% PWC, you're removing 25% of the water and 25% of the chemical so you end up with 7.5% of Chemical A in the remaining water. Then, if you top off the tank with water AS WELL AS adding a full dose of Chemical A (meaning 10% again), you would now have 17.5% of Chemical A in the tank and only 82.5% water. Another PWC and Chemical A's percentage is up over 25%.. and the cycle continues to where there is a LOT more Chemical A in the tank than was ever intended. Now, those numbers above are much more exaggerated than the miniscule amount of dechlor product that we use as a percentage of the total amount of water in our tanks but still, I don't think it's a good idea to constantly overdose. Now, if you overdose only once for the treatment of higher levels of ammonia/nitrite, as some dechlors advertise they do, and then do a series of PWC's using the proper amount for only the replacement water, the percentage will come back down to a normal dechlor level after several PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:40 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Dechlor When doing water changes should the amount of dechlor being used be bases on amount of water being replaced or total volume on tank? - I'm using a python for the pwc. Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47816	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/13/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Do you know how to fix broken links? I try to use TinyURL's for obviously long links, that I know Yahoo Groups will break, but sometimes Yahoo Groups will even break short links. In that case, there are several ways to fix a link. One is to copy/paste the broken link and remove the spaces in the browsers address field before clicking enter. Another is to open the email and edit it to remove the breaks/>characters and then click on the link once it is fixed. This can also be done when replying to an email or forwarding an email which puts it into the edit mode already, then fix the link(s), click on them as needed and then either reply, if you were going to, or delete the unneeded email. I fixed all of the links in my last reply, before sending this one but there is a good chance that Yahoo Groups will break them again. Check for the TinyURL's in many cases of a broken long link. Yahoo Groups needs to fix this long standing issue or at least give free lessons on link fixing as part of their membership process. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 8:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID For some annoying reason, I am not able to open any of these links. But, it does seem like I have pseudogastromyzon myersi and this would explain why my three loaches are only two inches. They are all doing really well in my tanks, although I do have lots of CO2 for the plants. I run my filters at the waterline, though, and turn off CO2 at night, so this aerates the water for them. It sounds like two of these pseudo. myersi plus seven ember tetras and eight heterandria will work out fine in the 20 long. Thanks very much. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that make up > the group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so > that's not helping a lot. > > If you go back to the Wikipedia article, > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the > various Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon > unfortunately, > there's about 30 species... so to the next search. > > Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the names > Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - aquarticles.com > hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the hits and > the authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream > Loach, Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, > you'll see your picture right near the top of that article with the > Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, > http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach-Gastromyzo n.jpg > > I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures to > find that image... or was that image also used on another website but > not properly attributed/identified? > > Here's another article that you might like reading. > http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-i n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l > > And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. > http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi > (Maximum size > - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. > > Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/ need > fast flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them > this in your tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking > limits, meaning more fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you > have easy to grow plants in the tank that can do well with the lower > CO2 levels to be expected in a HIGH > O2 level environment. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID > > This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to get the > full name. It's gastromyzon something. > > http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream-Loach- > Gastromyzo > n.jpg > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the > > address at fishbase for some reason. > > > > Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > >> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. > >> > >> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm > >> > >> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as > >> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that Loaches.com > >> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same common > >> name. > >> > >> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese > >> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, > >> Butterfly Loach > >> - no > >> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. > >> > >> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common name, > >> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > >> id=5439 so > >> I guess that's the problem. > >> > >> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a dozen > >> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the two > >> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see if one > >> of them is your fish. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR > >> > >> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? > >> crit1_fieldnam > >> > e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v > >> a > >> lue=be > >> > aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri > >> t > >> 2_oper > >> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >> > >> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream loaches I > >> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for many > >> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them Chinese > >> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. > >> > >> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to let > >> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. > >> > >> They sure seem small. > >> > >> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in > the 20 > >> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not even be > >> able to since they're so teensy. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >> > >> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > >>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace > The 1" > >>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > >>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > >>> replace-1-per. > >>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and increase > >> their > >>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in body > mass > >>> for each time they double their length but in my own > experience, the > >>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > >>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, > >> Oscars, > >>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to > equal a > >>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > >>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to > >> equal one > >>> 8" > >>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways with > >>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately measure > >> body > >>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to > >> adulthood. > >>> > >>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around 2 cm, > >>> according to FishBase, > >>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > >>> id=12376, > >>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking that > >> down > >>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" > fish to > >>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" > >> fish, and > >>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate that it > >> would > >>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > >>> > >>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which > ONLY > >>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), 20 of > >> these > >>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their bioload. > >> Since > >>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > >>> > >>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do not > >> say > >>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many > species > >>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, there are > >>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find out > the > >>> exact species to learn more about their needs. > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > >>> > >>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their > current > >>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected adult > >> size, > >>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you have > >> eight > >>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > >>> > >>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would > technically > >>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the > tank is > >>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one *knows* > >> there > >>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your > Hillstream > >>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem that I > >> see is > >>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and in a > >>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may > >> have to > >>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to keep > >> the > >>> bioload from becoming a problem. > >>> > >>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an > answer > >>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not like you > >> would > >>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies > home. ;-) > >>> > >>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >> alphabetically > >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>> Month) > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>> > >>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams and > I am > >>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight heterandria > >>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a salt > >> bath > >>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five females > >> at a > >>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To > round > >>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). Very > >>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 long > and > >>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. Once > >>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my > >> question > >>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with > the HF > >>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 inches, > >> but > >>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much bioload > they > >>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so tiny? > >>> > >>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within the > hour > >>> as they are not happy in their bag. > >>> > >>> Thanks for any feedback on this... > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47817	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Dechlor

Thank you very much for your helping hand lenny Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry� -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:58:53 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dechlor Yes, it's the same in any case. Many of us use Python's or other refill methods besides the bucket brigade and I simply add the appropriate amount of dechlor to my tank prior to starting the refill process. Just make sure, when you're refilling, that the water coming out of the Python is splashing, either on a glass panel or into the top of the water, as it enters the tank, and that it's not going into the tank near one of your filter intakes so the dechlor product has a chance to work before the chlorinated water gets sucked directly into the filter. When doing a 25%-30% type PWC, this is fine. I guess if I was doing a 90% PWC, which I never do anyhow, I would pre-treat the water so or add the dechlor in stages so that you're not dumping an overdose of dechlor into only 10% of the water and then filling it up the other 90%. This should NOT be done unless one is absolutely certain their incoming water has the same water parameters as the tank's water, otherwise shock issues could easily happen to the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 8:38 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dechlor And this is the case even when adding the water directly? Not putting in bucket first, treating and dumping it in tank? Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:14:21 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Dechlor Only the amount being added to the tank. The water in the tank is already dechlored... or at least it should be. Some folks regularly overdose dechlor on a regular basis (against my advice) but if they ever sit down and do the math, over the course of many months and years, it could build up the dechlor level quite a bit in a tank. For example, using a higher percentage for simplicity. If you add 10% of chemical A to a tank, it then has 90% water and 10% chemical A. If you do a 25% PWC, you're removing 25% of the water and 25% of the chemical so you end up with 7.5% of Chemical A in the remaining water. Then, if you top off the tank with water AS WELL AS adding a full dose of Chemical A (meaning 10% again), you would now have 17.5% of Chemical A in the tank and only 82.5% water. Another PWC and Chemical A's percentage is up over 25%.. and the cycle continues to where there is a LOT more Chemical A in the tank than was ever intended. Now, those numbers above are much more exaggerated than the miniscule amount of dechlor product that we use as a percentage of the total amount of water in our tanks but still, I don't think it's a good idea to constantly overdose. Now, if you overdose only once for the treatment of higher levels of ammonia/nitrite, as some dechlors advertise they do, and then do a series of PWC's using the proper amount for only the replacement water, the percentage will come back down to a normal dechlor level after several PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:40 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Dechlor When doing water changes should the amount of dechlor being used be bases on amount of water being replaced or total volume on tank? - I'm using a python for the pwc. Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47818	From: tootsie2toes2	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: sponge filter not getting dirty

No. I'm feeding the same. Judy B. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Have you changed what you are feeding them? > > -Mike G > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tootsie2toes2 <tootsie2toes2@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 8:37 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] sponge filter not getting dirty > > > > > For many years, my tank's sponge filter is dirty when I clean it every > 2 weeks or so. It is now clean when I clean the filter even though > everything else is the same as before (same amount of fish etc.). Any > ideas? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47819	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Hi Amber - I checked out my three HL with a magnifying glass and you are exactly right, they are the pseudogastromyzon cheni. Thanks for your help. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 13, 2010, at 9:38 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Your picture looks like the cheni to me, from the colors on the > dorsal fin. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Yes, thank you, I think I don't have cheni and do have the myersi. > > The only thing that doesn't look right is that blue under the red on > > the dorsal. I've never seen the blue before. Do you think if mine > > don't have the blue then I don't have this species? Or do you think > > maybe it's just not visible on all specimens? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> Check out the links I sent Lainey, they might work for you, I > sent one > >> of both the myersi and the cheni, both look very very similar > and are > >> very hard to tell apart, leading to misidentification of the two > fish > >> quite often. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >>> For some annoying reason, I am not able to open any of these > links. > >>> But, it does seem like I have pseudogastromyzon myersi and this > >>> > >> would > >> > >>> explain why my three loaches are only two inches. > >>> > >>> They are all doing really well in my tanks, although I do have > lots > >>> of CO2 for the plants. I run my filters at the waterline, though, > >>> > >> and > >> > >>> turn off CO2 at night, so this aerates the water for them. > >>> > >>> It sounds like two of these pseudo. myersi plus seven ember tetras > >>> and eight heterandria will work out fine in the 20 long. > >>> > >>> Thanks very much. > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that > make up > >>>> the > >>>> group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so > >>>> that's not > >>>> helping a lot. > >>>> > >>>> If you go back to the Wikipedia article, > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the > >>>> various > >>>> Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon... > >>>> unfortunately, > >>>> there's about 30 species... so to the next search. > >>>> > >>>> Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the > >>>> > >> names > >> > >>>> Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - > aquarticles.com > >>>> hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the > hits and > >>>> the > >>>> authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream > >>>> > >> Loach, > >> > >>>> Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, > >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/ > >>>> Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, > >>>> you'll see your picture right near the top of that article > with the > >>>> Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, > >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream- > Loach- > >>>> Gastromyzo > >>>> n.jpg > >>>> > >>>> I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures > >>>> to find > >>>> that image... or was that image also used on another website but > >>>> > >> not > >> > >>>> properly attributed/identified? > >>>> > >>>> Here's another article that you might like reading. > >>>> http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the- > specialists- > >>>> at-life-i > >>>> n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l > >>>> > >>>> And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. > >>>> http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi > >>>> (Maximum size > >>>> - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. > >>>> > >>>> Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/ > >>>> need fast > >>>> flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them > this > >>>> in your > >>>> tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking limits, > >>>> meaning more > >>>> fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you have easy to grow > >>>> plants in > >>>> the tank that can do well with the lower CO2 levels to be > expected > >>>> in a HIGH > >>>> O2 level environment. > >>>> > >>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >>>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the > >>>> right > >>>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > >>>> Month) > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >>>> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM > >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID > >>>> > >>>> This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to > get the > >>>> full > >>>> name. It's gastromyzon something. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream- > Loach- > >>>> Gastromyzo > >>>> n.jpg > >>>> > >>>> Lainey > >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>> > >>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the > >>>>> address at fishbase for some reason. > >>>>> > >>>>> Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. > >>>>> > >>>>> Lainey > >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>>> > >>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as > >>>>>> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that > >>>>>> > >> Loaches.com > >> > >>>>>> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same > >>>>>> > >> common > >> > >>>>>> name. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese > >>>>>> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, > >>>>>> Butterfly Loach > >>>>>> - no > >>>>>> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common > name, > >>>>>> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/ > >>>>>> > >> SpeciesSummary.php? > >> > >>>>>> id=5439 so > >>>>>> I guess that's the problem. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a > >>>>>> > >> dozen > >> > >>>>>> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the > >>>>>> > >> two > >> > >>>>>> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see > >>>>>> > >> if one > >> > >>>>>> of them is your fish. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? > >>>>>> crit1_fieldnam > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v > >> > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> lue=be > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri > >> > >>>>>> t > >>>>>> 2_oper > >>>>>> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > articles > >>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>>>>> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>>>>> Month) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > >>>>>> > >> Alexander > >> > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM > >>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream > loaches I > >>>>>> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for > >>>>>> > >> many > >> > >>>>>> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them > >>>>>> > >> Chinese > >> > >>>>>> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to > let > >>>>>> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> They sure seem small. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> the 20 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not > >>>>>> > >> even be > >> > >>>>>> able to since they're so teensy. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Lainey > >>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking > >>>>>>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> The 1" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" > >>>>>>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- > >>>>>>> replace-1-per. > >>>>>>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and > increase > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> their > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in > body > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> mass > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> for each time they double their length but in my own > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> experience, the > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to > >>>>>>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Oscars, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> equal a > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" > >>>>>>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> equal one > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> 8" > >>>>>>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways > with > >>>>>>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately > >>>>>>> > >> measure > >> > >>>>>> body > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> adulthood. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around > >>>>>>> > >> 2 cm, > >> > >>>>>>> according to FishBase, > >>>>>>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? > >>>>>>> id=12376, > >>>>>>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking > that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> down > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> fish to > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> fish, and > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate > that it > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> would > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> ONLY > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), > 20 of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> these > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their > bioload. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Since > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do > >>>>>>> > >> not > >> > >>>>>> say > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> species > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, > >>>>>>> > >> there are > >> > >>>>>>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find > out > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> exact species to learn more about their needs. > >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> current > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected > adult > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> size, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you > have > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> eight > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> technically > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> tank is > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one > *knows* > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> there > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> Hillstream > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem > that I > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> see is > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and > in a > >>>>>>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> have to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to > >>>>>>> > >> keep > >> > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> bioload from becoming a problem. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> answer > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not > like you > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> would > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> home. ;-) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any > articles > >>>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> alphabetically > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>>>>>> Month) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > >>>>>>> > >> Alexander > >> > >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM > >>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams > and > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> I am > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight > >>>>>>> > >> heterandria > >> > >>>>>>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a > salt > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> bath > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five > females > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> at a > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> round > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). > >>>>>>> > >> Very > >> > >>>>>>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 > long > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. > >>>>>>> > >> Once > >> > >>>>>>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> question > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> the HF > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 > >>>>>>> > >> inches, > >> > >>>>>> but > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much > bioload > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> they > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so > >>>>>>> > >> tiny? > >> > >>>>>>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within > the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> hour > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> as they are not happy in their bag. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback on this... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Lainey > >>>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> > >> Thank You. > >> > >>> ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > >>> > >> ((((�> > >> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >> subject)" <- > >> > >>> <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > >>> > >> ��`�.��. > >> > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > >>> > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > >>> > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > >> and post replies. > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > >>> > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47820	From: melindas	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Sad Day

Ich is still in my tank and its going to be two weeks having it in there Monday, and sadly its killing all my cherry barbs, I had 3 now its down to one and he has Ich :/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47821	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Hillstream loach ID

Glad to help. I think I lost my gastromyzon hillstream loaches recently, haven't seen them in almost a week I think. Since when the cory showed injuries/illness. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hi Amber - > > I checked out my three HL with a magnifying glass and you are exactly > right, they are the pseudogastromyzon cheni. > > Thanks for your help. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 9:38 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Your picture looks like the cheni to me, from the colors on the >> dorsal fin. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Yes, thank you, I think I don't have cheni and do have the myersi. >>> The only thing that doesn't look right is that blue under the red on >>> the dorsal. I've never seen the blue before. Do you think if mine >>> don't have the blue then I don't have this species? Or do you think >>> maybe it's just not visible on all specimens? >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Check out the links I sent Lainey, they might work for you, I >>>> >> sent one >> >>>> of both the myersi and the cheni, both look very very similar >>>> >> and are >> >>>> very hard to tell apart, leading to misidentification of the two >>>> >> fish >> >>>> quite often. >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> For some annoying reason, I am not able to open any of these >>>>> >> links. >> >>>>> But, it does seem like I have pseudogastromyzon myersi and this >>>>> >>>>> >>>> would >>>> >>>> >>>>> explain why my three loaches are only two inches. >>>>> >>>>> They are all doing really well in my tanks, although I do have >>>>> >> lots >> >>>>> of CO2 for the plants. I run my filters at the waterline, though, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> >>>>> turn off CO2 at night, so this aerates the water for them. >>>>> >>>>> It sounds like two of these pseudo. myersi plus seven ember tetras >>>>> and eight heterandria will work out fine in the 20 long. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks very much. >>>>> >>>>> Lainey >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Gastromyzon, part of the URL, is but one of the Genera that >>>>>> >> make up >> >>>>>> the >>>>>> group of fish commonly referred to as "Hillstream Loaches" so >>>>>> that's not >>>>>> helping a lot. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you go back to the Wikipedia article, >>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach, you would see the >>>>>> various >>>>>> Genera and find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastromyzon... >>>>>> unfortunately, >>>>>> there's about 30 species... so to the next search. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since you found an image with aquarticles.com in the URL and the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> names >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Gordon&Stuart also in the URL, I did a Google for - >>>>>> >> aquarticles.com >> >>>>>> hillstream loach - and found the article at the top of the >>>>>> >> hits and >> >>>>>> the >>>>>> authors have the picture identified as "The Chinese Hillstream >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> Loach, >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Pseudogastromyzon myersi" and if you go to this link, >>>>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/ponds/ >>>>>> Gordon&Stuart_Coldwater_Fish.html, >>>>>> you'll see your picture right near the top of that article >>>>>> >> with the >> >>>>>> Properties for the image being the same as the link you posted, >>>>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream- >>>>>> >> Loach- >> >>>>>> Gastromyzo >>>>>> n.jpg >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm curious... Did you do an Image Search and go through pictures >>>>>> to find >>>>>> that image... or was that image also used on another website but >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> not >>>> >>>> >>>>>> properly attributed/identified? >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's another article that you might like reading. >>>>>> http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the- >>>>>> >> specialists- >> >>>>>> at-life-i >>>>>> n-the-fast-lane OR http://tinyurl.com/yfyrw7l >>>>>> >>>>>> And the Loaches.com profile on your suspected species. >>>>>> http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pseudogastromyzon-myersi >>>>>> (Maximum size >>>>>> - 2.25"... so that's good news if this is what you have. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, the downside of all of this is that Hillstream Loaches like/ >>>>>> need fast >>>>>> flowing waters with high O2 levels so make sure you give them >>>>>> >> this >> >>>>>> in your >>>>>> tank... especially since you are pushing the stocking limits, >>>>>> meaning more >>>>>> fish competing for available O2. Hopefully, you have easy to grow >>>>>> plants in >>>>>> the tank that can do well with the lower CO2 levels to be >>>>>> >> expected >> >>>>>> in a HIGH >>>>>> O2 level environment. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >>>>>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on >>>>>> >> the >> >>>>>> right >>>>>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by >>>>>> >> Year, >> >>>>>> Month) >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:12 PM >>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hillstream loach ID >>>>>> >>>>>> This is the fish I have, for sure. However, I can't seem to >>>>>> >> get the >> >>>>>> full >>>>>> name. It's gastromyzon something. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.aquarticles.com/images/Gordon&Stuart/Hill-Stream- >>>>>> >> Loach- >> >>>>>> Gastromyzo >>>>>> n.jpg >>>>>> >>>>>> Lainey >>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think I have the one at Frank's - and I can't get to the >>>>>>> address at fishbase for some reason. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mine (I have three) have a little red on the dorsal fin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lainey >>>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Oops.. just saw this on Frank's Aquarium. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.franksaquarium.com/loaches.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Scroll down to Chinese Butterfly Pleco and Frank's has it as >>>>>>>> Beaufortia levertti, not Beaufortia kweichowensis that >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> Loaches.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> has so there's a couple of that Genera that shares the same >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> common >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> name. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I checked FishBase.org and searched "Common names" for Chinese >>>>>>>> Butterfly Loach - no hits, Chinese Butterfly Pleco - no hit, >>>>>>>> Butterfly Loach >>>>>>>> - no >>>>>>>> hits, Butterfly Pleco - no hits. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hmmmm.. Fishbase.org only shows one species with the common >>>>>>>> >> name, >> >>>>>>>> "Hillstream Loach" http://fishbase.org/Summary/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> SpeciesSummary.php? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> id=5439 so >>>>>>>> I guess that's the problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A search of Fishbase for the Genus, Beaufortia, shows about a >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> dozen >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> fish in that Genus. If your fish doesn't look exactly like the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> two >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> previously listed links, check out all as on FishBase to see >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> if one >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> of them is your fish. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y46ftny FOR >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://fishbase.org/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php? >>>>>>>> crit1_fieldnam >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> e=SYNONYMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_v >> >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> lue=be >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >> aufortia&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&cri >> >>>>>>>> t >>>>>>>> 2_oper >>>>>>>> ator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any >>>>>>>> >> articles >> >>>>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>>>>>> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>>>>>> Month) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> Alexander >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:26 PM >>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you, Lenny. I can't tell exactly which Hillstream >>>>>>>> >> loaches I >> >>>>>>>> have, but the man I bought them from has kept this species for >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> many >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> years and says it does not exceed two inches. He calls them >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> Chinese >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> butterfly plecos, as a common name, which I know means nothing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was not sure about all 17 tetras in the 20 so I decided to >>>>>>>> >> let >> >>>>>>>> seven of them go into my 37g where I had a smidge of room left. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They sure seem small. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But this way, I have a little room for the heterandria fry in >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> the 20 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> long if the Ember tetras don't eat them, which they may not >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> even be >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> able to since they're so teensy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lainey >>>>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you ever get a chance to read some/all of my tank stocking >>>>>>>>> guideline articles, I have one called, "New Rules To Replace >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> The 1" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Per Gallon Fish Killing Rule" >>>>>>>>> http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to- >>>>>>>>> replace-1-per. >>>>>>>>> html, which goes into the details of how fish grow and >>>>>>>>> >> increase >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> body mass. For the most part, BIG fish grow eight times in >>>>>>>>> >> body >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> mass >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> for each time they double their length but in my own >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> experience, the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> same formula works for smaller fish also, it's just harder to >>>>>>>>> physically weight/ measure smaller fish, compared to Goldfish, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Oscars, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Koi, etc. That said, it would take around eight 1/2" fish to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> equal a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1" fish. Eight 1" fish to equal a 2" >>>>>>>>> fish. 64 1" fish to equal one 4" fish. Around 500 1" fish to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> equal one >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 8" >>>>>>>>> fish, etc. This math has been proven several different ways >>>>>>>>> >> with >> >>>>>>>>> larger fish but I've never seen someone try to accurately >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> measure >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> body >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mass on smaller adult sized fish as they grow from juvi to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> adulthood. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Since your Ember Tetras, Hemigrammus amandae, grow to around >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> 2 cm, >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> according to FishBase, >>>>>>>>> http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php? >>>>>>>>> id=12376, >>>>>>>>> that would equal around 3/4" as full grown adults. Breaking >>>>>>>>> >> that >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> further using the 8X body mass formula, it would take 8 1/4" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> fish to >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> equal a 1/2" fish and 8 1/2" (or 64 1/4") fish to equal a 1" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> fish, and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the progressiveness of the formula, you can extrapolate >>>>>>>>> >> that it >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> take around two 3/4" fish to equal a 1" fish. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, when using the 1" of small fish per gallon of water (which >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> ONLY >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> works with fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults), >>>>>>>>> >> 20 of >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ender Tetras would need at least 10G of water for their >>>>>>>>> >> bioload. >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Since >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> you have 17, that would be around 8.5G of water. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You will have to figure out the rest of the math since you do >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> not >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> what species of Hillstream Loaches you have. There are many >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> species >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> that fall into that common name. According to Wikipedia, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> there are >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> over 600 species in 60 different Genera so you need to find >>>>>>>>> >> out >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> exact species to learn more about their needs. >>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillstream_loach >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As far as your H. formosa, you should not be counting their >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> current >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> sizes when figuring out bioload, but rather their expected >>>>>>>>> >> adult >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> size, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> which according to FishBase, is 3.6cm (1.4") and since you >>>>>>>>> >> have >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> eight >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of them, that's 12 gallons of bioload. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So... without counting the Hillstream Loaches, you would >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> technically >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> be using all of your 20G of water volume BUT as long as the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> tank is >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> well maintained and even better maintained for when one >>>>>>>>> >> *knows* >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> is a higher bioload, then it can be done. Hopefully, your >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Hillstream >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Loaches are one of the smaller species. The main problem >>>>>>>>> >> that I >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> see is >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> with them dang livebearers if they start over producing and >>>>>>>>> >> in a >> >>>>>>>>> planted tank, many more of the babies will survive so you may >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> have to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> be regularly netting and moving the adult H. formosa fish to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> keep >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> bioload from becoming a problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sorry for the long answer but I didn't want to just state an >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> answer >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> without explaining where the answer came from. It's not >>>>>>>>> >> like you >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> have believed me if I just said "The Stork" brings babies >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> home. ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>>>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any >>>>>>>>> >> articles >> >>>>>>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> alphabetically >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>>>>>>> Month) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Alexander >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:06 PM >>>>>>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Minor emergency:) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have a densely planted 20 long freed up from my baby rams >>>>>>>>> >> and >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> I am >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> have two hillstream loaches in that tank plus my eight >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> heterandria >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> formosa are going in there although right now they are in a >>>>>>>>> >> salt >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> bath >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> quarantine curing their fungus. Of the HF there are five >>>>>>>>> >> females >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> at a >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> little under one inch and three males at about a half inch. To >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> round >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> out the tank I purchased ten ember tetras (2 cm adult size). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Very >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> generously, the vendor sent me 17! So I have ten in the 20 >>>>>>>>> >> long >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> now an extra seven sitting in a bag, needing to go somewhere. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Once >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> they go into my planted tanks they may never come out. So my >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> is this: can I get away with these 17 ETs in the 20long with >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> the HF >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and the two loaches? I know it's technically more than 20 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> inches, >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> these fish are all miniscule, and I'm not sure how much >>>>>>>>> >> bioload >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> they >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> generate. Maybe the inch rule doesn't apply when they are so >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> tiny? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> I need to decide what to do with the seven extra ETs within >>>>>>>>> >> the >> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> hour >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> as they are not happy in their bag. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback on this... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lainey >>>>>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Thank You. >>>> >>>> >>>>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ((((º> >>>> >>>> >>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>>>> >>>>> >>>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >>>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >>>> subject)" <- >>>> >>>> >>>>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>>> >>>> >>>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>>>> >>>>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>>>> >>>>> >>>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >>>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>>>> >>>>> >>>> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>>> >>>> >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>>>> >>>>> >>>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >>>> and post replies. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>>>> >>>>> >>>> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47822	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day

If I recall correctly, you were using an Ich medication and were not able to raise your tank's water temperature above 77F... right? You should get a 2nd heater, add it to the tank and raise the temperature by 2F per day until you get it up to 85F, so this will take around 4+ days. Also, do a couple of 25% PWC's (partial water changes) and put some new carbon in your filter to remove the current medication since it's obviously not working. Then start adding salt, plain table salt is fine (or if you have kosher or canning salt), and you want to raise the salt level up to 3 teaspoons per gallon over the course of 24 hours, meaning you will add 1 teaspoon per gallon at first, then 12 hours later, add the 2nd teaspoon per gallon and then 12 hours later, add the 3rd teaspoon per gallon. You want to leave the salt level up at that same 3 teaspoons per gallon level throughout the treatment which will take at least 10 days. If you do a PWC at any time during the treatment, you want to add 3 teaspoons per gallon of salt to the water that you will be adding back to the tank so you keep the salinity level up. A few days after you last see any evidence of Ich, you can start slowly lowering the water temp by 1-2F per day and do a 25% PWC each day to slowly lower the salinity level again. After the 4+ days this will take, your tank will be back to 77-78F and back to mostly fresh water again. There are some fish that are intolerant of salt so you need to let us know what kinds of fish you have so we can be sure of the above instructions. Also, you should increase aeration of the tank during treatment. Either with an air stone or by adjusting your filter return so that it creates more splashing into the tank. Here's an article that will mostly reiterate the above and give you additional information. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sad Day Ich is still in my tank and its going to be two weeks having it in there Monday, and sadly its killing all my cherry barbs, I had 3 now its down to one and he has Ich :/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47823	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47824	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day

You need a better heater. While we realize that good ones are not cheap, you can't get by for long with one that doesn't keep the temperature high enough to keep your fish healthy. It's the only piece of apparatus that guarantees a proper temperature range for these fish (until it malfunctions, that is). While fish can be maintained on a budget, this is one item that can't be skimped on if you want to maintain live fish for any length of time without having issues with them -- and possibly the most important basic item needed for aquarium maintenance. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47825	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/14/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day

Something else I just thought about that I did not include in my last reply to the OP. When you started medicating the tank, did you remove your carbon? All medications advise doing this but I know many folks do not read *all* of the small print and if you did not remove the carbon, then it's likely all of the medication was being absorbed by the carbon instead of working on the Ich. I've seen this problem happen MANY times over the years in various forum threads. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 1:05 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sad Day You need a better heater. While we realize that good ones are not cheap, you can't get by for long with one that doesn't keep the temperature high enough to keep your fish healthy. It's the only piece of apparatus that guarantees a proper temperature range for these fish (until it malfunctions, that is). While fish can be maintained on a budget, this is one item that can't be skimped on if you want to maintain live fish for any length of time without having issues with them -- and possibly the most important basic item needed for aquarium maintenance. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47826	From: melindas	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day

I have taken my carbon out and also, got my heater to go to about 82F I used a whole bottle of Rid ich+ and now I'm switching to The Rid Ich by Jungle, because that's all I have left. And my last Cherry barb died x.x

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47827	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Sad Day

Unless the two medications have the same ingredients, you should not mix them. Further, whenever I do switch medications, during the time that I'm doing PWC's and running fresh carbon to remove the old medication, it gives the fish a day to recuperate from the old medication before switching to the new medication so you do not tax their kidneys too much. Salt and another heater would have been a less expensive option from the beginning and you would have ended up with another heater when the treatment was over. Running two 1/2 sized heaters in a tank is safer than running one full size heater as it also adds redundancy in the event of a heater failing in either the on or off position. If stuck ON, the 1/2 sized heater would not be able to cook the fish, if stuck OFF, the other heater would run full time and at least keep things more comfortable while you replace the failing heater. I try do this in most of my tanks in the past and especially in any tanks that I might have been keeping expensive fish or fish that are less tolerant to temperature swings. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sad Day I have taken my carbon out and also, got my heater to go to about 82F I used a whole bottle of Rid ich+ and now I'm switching to The Rid Ich by Jungle, because that's all I have left. And my last Cherry barb died x.x

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47828	From: john Lewis	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: sponge filter not getting dirty

It is probably the sponge-work is blocked on the inside.  It could be other things but that's my guess.    Hope this helps!!!    John ________________________________ From: tootsie2toes2 <tootsie2toes2@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 11:37:26 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] sponge filter not getting dirty   For many years, my tank's sponge filter is dirty when I clean it every 2 weeks or so. It is now clean when I clean the filter even though everything else is the same as before (same amount of fish etc.). Any ideas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47829	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Heterandria fungus still not cured

I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get rid of every last speck. I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh since the salt isn't really helping at this point. I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five gallon tank. 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go with all fresh water? 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such tiny fish? 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is all fresh? 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn hopefully)? 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them all together? THANK YOU! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47830	From: William M	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

I would use some hydrogen peroxide on the tuft of fungus, use a q-tip to just wet the wound (where the tuft of fungus is) while holding the fish in a net. Do not get it in the gills of the fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple > of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really > see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get > rid of every last speck. > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, > and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh > since the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five > gallon tank. > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > with all fresh water? > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such > tiny fish? > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is > all fresh? > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn hopefully)? > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them > all together? > > THANK YOU! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47831	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

William - Are you talking about straight undiluted 3% HP? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 15, 2010, at 11:03 PM, William M wrote: > I would use some hydrogen peroxide on the tuft of fungus, use a q- > tip to just wet the wound (where the tuft of fungus is) while > holding the fish in a net. Do not get it in the gills of the fish. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with > > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF > > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple > > of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > > won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to > really > > see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get > > rid of every last speck. > > > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, > > and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > > think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to > fresh > > since the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > > only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five > > gallon tank. > > > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > > with all fresh water? > > > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > > this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such > > tiny fish? > > > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is > > all fresh? > > > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > hopefully)? > > > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them > > all together? > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47832	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

I see someone else mentioned using HP for a topical treatment and that may work although it's more of an antibiotic but the oxidizing factor of HP may do the work on fungus too. You could also try a Q-tip topical treatment of the PimaFix after giving the fish a day or two rest after the topical HP treatment. Then give it a day or two to see if either or both of these topical treatments killed off that remaining fuzz. The fuzz could just be dead fungus that hasn't fallen off and the Q-tip, besides treating topically, will also hopefully pull some/all of the fungus off. As far as returning the water to fresh water. Using your 10 tablespoons of salt as a total baseline amount in the tank, when you do the first 10% (0.5G) change, you'll be removing 1 tablespoon since that is 10% of 10 tablespoons. The math is no longer as easy after the first PWC. You can do two of these PWC's a day, every 12 hours so this might take about a week. 2nd PWC - start with 9 tablespoons - do 10% PWC so you are removing 0.9 tablespoons so you'll have 8.1 tablespoons left. 3rd PWC - start with 8.1 tablespoons - remove 10% = around 7.3 tablespoons 4th PWC - start with 7.3 tablespoons - remove 10% = around 6.6 tablespoons 5th PWC - start with 6.6 tablespoons - remove 20% this time = 5.4 tablespoons 6th PWC - another 20% PWC = 4.3 tablespoons 7th PWC - another 20% PWC = 3.4 tablespoons 8th PWC - 30% PWC (1.5G) = 2.3 tablespoons 9th - 12th PWC's - 30% each time = less than 0.5 tablespoons (around 1 teaspoon per gallon) now. You can now start acclimating the fish to the tank they will be going to by removing 30% of the 5G's water and then replacing it with freshly PWC'ed tank water from the tank they will be going into. After several PWC's using tank water from the tank they will be going into, their 5G tank will be a very minute amount of salt and at the same time, they will be acclimated to the tank water they will be going into and you can just net and move them without setting up any other kind of acclimation... presuming the temperatures will also be the same in both tanks. That's how I would do it... and it will also give you another week or two (if you only do one PWC a day) to monitor the HF's to make sure the fungus doesn't return and all other health issues remain stable. Normally, you would want to wait a couple of weeks after all health issues have resolved before moving fish out of quarantine anyhow. Save or print this out for handy reference. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get rid of every last speck. I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh since the salt isn't really helping at this point. I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five gallon tank. 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go with all fresh water? 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such tiny fish? 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is all fresh? 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn hopefully)? 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them all together? THANK YOU! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47833	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

In case he doesn't reply. Yes, that's what he's talking about. Something else, since you mentioned Malachite Green... if you have that on hand, you could also do a topical Q-tip treatment with that. If not, either the HP or PimaFix... or both over the course of two days... should knock out that final spot. Then the still salty water as you do the series of PWC's will give you a week or so to monitor the fish to make sure it's gone and give the salt water time to additionally treat the spot. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured William - Are you talking about straight undiluted 3% HP? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 15, 2010, at 11:03 PM, William M wrote: > I would use some hydrogen peroxide on the tuft of fungus, use a q- tip > to just wet the wound (where the tuft of fungus is) while holding the > fish in a net. Do not get it in the gills of the fish. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with > > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF > > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple > > of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > > won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to > really > > see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get > > rid of every last speck. > > > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, > > and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > > think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to > fresh > > since the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > > only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five > > gallon tank. > > > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > > with all fresh water? > > > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > > this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such > > tiny fish? > > > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is > > all fresh? > > > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > hopefully)? > > > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them > > all together? > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47834	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

OK, thanks for explaining all this. Now when I do the topical treatment, do I take the fish out of water in a net, or do I try to wedge it still under water? Also, with such a tiny fish, will I be able to target the tail without touching the gills? I think a Q Tip would be so big that when I touch the tail the Q tip will also touch the gills. Maybe I can use an eyedropper and drip one drop onto the tail? This fish is about 3/4 inch including the tail, poor thing. How many seconds can I keep the fish out of water, if that is what I am meant to do? TYTYTYTY Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > In case he doesn't reply. Yes, that's what he's talking about. > > Something else, since you mentioned Malachite Green... if you have > that on > hand, you could also do a topical Q-tip treatment with that. If > not, either > the HP or PimaFix... or both over the course of two days... should > knock out > that final spot. > > Then the still salty water as you do the series of PWC's will give > you a > week or so to monitor the fish to make sure it's gone and give the > salt > water time to additionally treat the spot. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured > > William - > > Are you talking about straight undiluted 3% HP? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 15, 2010, at 11:03 PM, William M wrote: > > > I would use some hydrogen peroxide on the tuft of fungus, use a > q- tip > > to just wet the wound (where the tuft of fungus is) while holding > the > > fish in a net. Do not get it in the gills of the fish. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa > with > > > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other > five HF > > > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a > couple > > > of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > > > won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to > > really > > > see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get > > > rid of every last speck. > > > > > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > > > > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, > > > and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > > > think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to > > fresh > > > since the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > > > > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > > > only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five > > > gallon tank. > > > > > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > > > with all fresh water? > > > > > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > > > this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such > > > tiny fish? > > > > > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the > water is > > > all fresh? > > > > > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > > hopefully)? > > > > > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > > > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat > them > > > all together? > > > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47835	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/15/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Net the fish, dab the Q-tip in the bottle of medication (HP or Pimafix or Malachite Green), then dab it on the fish's tail (you did say it was on the tail) so I'm not sure why you're worried about getting it in the gills. Is the fish smaller than the head of a Q-tip... or do you have really big ears? <G> Even on a 3/4" fish, you should be able to touch/dab the tail without getting near the head. I would not use a dropper in this case. The Q-tip would be holding the soaked in medication so it doesn't spread out and you can control where it dabs on, whereas if you use a dropper, the drop would/could spread out and could affect other areas of the fish. You can keep the fish out of water for the time needed to do this treatment. If you have a helper, this shouldn't take more than a few seconds. After you net the fish, leave the net in the water while your helper dips the Q-tip in the medicine, then lift the fish out the water, cup your hand under the net to control things and then dab on the medication. Then give it a couple of seconds to work before dropping the net back into the water and releasing the fish. You should see some of the surgeries and procedures done to goldfish -- here's one page I have in my favorites - http://thegab.org/Veterinary-Procedures/goldfish-veterinary-procedures.html -- where the fish it out of water for quite a while during the procedure. Same with when going fishing, you reel in the fish, net it, hold it up for pictures, tease the kids, make the girlfriend kiss it, etc., then return it to the water if it's not a keeper worth eating. Or when a fish gets beached by a wave, it flips and flops around for a bit while working its way back to the water. It's not much different than us holding our breath for a minute or two except I believe the fish gills actually do get some O2 from air if they are out of water. I've read stories online of fish that jumped out of tanks and were found laying on the floor appearing to be dry enough to where it's been there a while and the dang fish was still alive and pumping it's gills the same as they do under water and the fish survives once it's returned to the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured OK, thanks for explaining all this. Now when I do the topical treatment, do I take the fish out of water in a net, or do I try to wedge it still under water? Also, with such a tiny fish, will I be able to target the tail without touching the gills? I think a Q Tip would be so big that when I touch the tail the Q tip will also touch the gills. Maybe I can use an eyedropper and drip one drop onto the tail? This fish is about 3/4 inch including the tail, poor thing. How many seconds can I keep the fish out of water, if that is what I am meant to do? TYTYTYTY Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > In case he doesn't reply. Yes, that's what he's talking about. > > Something else, since you mentioned Malachite Green... if you have > that on hand, you could also do a topical Q-tip treatment with that. > If not, either the HP or PimaFix... or both over the course of two > days... should knock out that final spot. > > Then the still salty water as you do the series of PWC's will give you > a week or so to monitor the fish to make sure it's gone and give the > salt water time to additionally treat the spot. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured > > William - > > Are you talking about straight undiluted 3% HP? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 15, 2010, at 11:03 PM, William M wrote: > > > I would use some hydrogen peroxide on the tuft of fungus, use a > q- tip > > to just wet the wound (where the tuft of fungus is) while holding > the > > fish in a net. Do not get it in the gills of the fish. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa > with > > > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other > five HF > > > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a > couple > > > of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > > > won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to > > really > > > see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get > > > rid of every last speck. > > > > > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > > > > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, > > > and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > > > think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to > > fresh > > > since the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > > > > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > > > only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five > > > gallon tank. > > > > > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > > > with all fresh water? > > > > > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > > > this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such > > > tiny fish? > > > > > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the > water is > > > all fresh? > > > > > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > > hopefully)? > > > > > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > > > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat > them > > > all together? > > > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47836	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Lainey, Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in the finnage, a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due to an injury of some sort. No amount of treatment will remove this white spot. And, that is all it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure that it is a remaining portion of the fungus you had, I would probably stop treatment, reduce the salt content of the water, then move the other fish out, and keep this guy quarantined for a while longer to see if this spot grows or not. If it remains as it is, I'd not worry about it, if it grows, then I would continue treatment based on the look of it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get rid of every last speck. I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh since the salt isn't really helping at this point. I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five gallon tank. 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go with all fresh water? 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such tiny fish? 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is all fresh? 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn hopefully)? 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them all together? THANK YOU! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47837	From: Jade	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... well... life haha. For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater aquarium. It used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of guppies, a few platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It is completely live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a sand bottom(roughly 2-3 inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec has been moving around and where it's been lol.) Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got dirty pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the aquarium. Could I, in theory, put a small layer of, say, white gravel on top of the sand without running into any problems? I know some of my plants would enjoy the foot hold, but my concern would be with the sand not stirring enough to release any sort of harmful build ups. Any advice or suggestions would be welcomed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47838	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

No, it is fungus, Steve. Originally, two weeks ago, this fish had fungus all over its body. All the fungus went away in about 48 hours except the tuft on the tail. This tail tuft has been going away slowly, but now it just won't get any smaller. I think it could be dead fungus, and I see the tail is a little torn where some of the fungus was. That's why I'm not sure if I should treat more or not, but I think better safe than sorry? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 3:42 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in the > finnage, > a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due to an > injury of some > sort. No amount of treatment will remove this white spot. And, that > is all > it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure that it is a remaining > portion of > the fungus you had, I would probably stop treatment, reduce the > salt content > of the water, then move the other fish out, and keep this guy > quarantined > for a while longer to see if this spot grows or not. If it remains > as it is, > I'd not worry about it, if it grows, then I would continue > treatment based > on the look of it. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple > of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really > see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get > rid of every last speck. > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, > and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh > since the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five > gallon tank. > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > with all fresh water? > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such > tiny fish? > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is > all fresh? > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > hopefully)? > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them > all together? > > THANK YOU! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47839	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

The white gravel will get slowly mixed in by your fish and any gravel cleaning that you do. In my planted tanks I can barely see my gravel, LOL. Do you do your gravel vac's still in this tank or is it too heavily planted to do a very good job? Amber Jade wrote: > > Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... > well... life haha. > > For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater aquarium. > It used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of guppies, > a few platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It is > completely live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a sand > bottom(roughly 2-3 inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec has been > moving around and where it's been lol.) > > Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got > dirty pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the > aquarium. Could I, in theory, put a small layer of, say, white gravel > on top of the sand without running into any problems? I know some of > my plants would enjoy the foot hold, but my concern would be with the > sand not stirring enough to release any sort of harmful build ups. Any > advice or suggestions would be welcomed. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47840	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Yes, always better safe than sorry. I treated my tank even though I still lost my injured fish and it didn't look like it was going to make it on the last day. On a good note everything in my tank looks nice and healthy/happy again, which is good, just lost one Cory :( Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > No, it is fungus, Steve. Originally, two weeks ago, this fish had > fungus all over its body. All the fungus went away in about 48 hours > except the tuft on the tail. This tail tuft has been going away > slowly, but now it just won't get any smaller. I think it could be > dead fungus, and I see the tail is a little torn where some of the > fungus was. That's why I'm not sure if I should treat more or not, > but I think better safe than sorry? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 3:42 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > >> Lainey, >> >> Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in the >> finnage, >> a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due to an >> injury of some >> sort. No amount of treatment will remove this white spot. And, that >> is all >> it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure that it is a remaining >> portion of >> the fungus you had, I would probably stop treatment, reduce the >> salt content >> of the water, then move the other fish out, and keep this guy >> quarantined >> for a while longer to see if this spot grows or not. If it remains >> as it is, >> I'd not worry about it, if it grows, then I would continue >> treatment based >> on the look of it. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured >> >> I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with >> the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF >> in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple >> of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just >> won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really >> see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get >> rid of every last speck. >> >> I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. >> >> I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, >> and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I >> think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh >> since the salt isn't really helping at this point. >> >> I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to >> only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five >> gallon tank. >> >> 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go >> with all fresh water? >> >> 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, >> this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such >> tiny fish? >> >> 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is >> all fresh? >> >> 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn >> hopefully)? >> >> 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real >> tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them >> all together? >> >> THANK YOU! >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47841	From: Jade	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

I use my gravel vacs to clean the floor yes, took me a bit to figure out how to do that without sucking up the sand... lol. In the places where the plants are too dense, I use my hands to gently usher the debris towards the vac and use my fingers to stir up the sand a bit to aerate it --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > The white gravel will get slowly mixed in by your fish and any gravel > cleaning that you do. In my planted tanks I can barely see my gravel, LOL. > Do you do your gravel vac's still in this tank or is it too heavily > planted to do a very good job? > > Amber > > Jade wrote: > > > > Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... > > well... life haha. > > > > For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater aquarium. > > It used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of guppies, > > a few platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It is > > completely live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a sand > > bottom(roughly 2-3 inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec has been > > moving around and where it's been lol.) > > > > Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got > > dirty pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the > > aquarium. Could I, in theory, put a small layer of, say, white gravel > > on top of the sand without running into any problems? I know some of > > my plants would enjoy the foot hold, but my concern would be with the > > sand not stirring enough to release any sort of harmful build ups. Any > > advice or suggestions would be welcomed. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47842	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

I don't think you'll ever keep white sand white in an aquarium. It barely stays white on beaches and oceans and the Sun and salt helps to keep it bleached and we can't have either of them in our FW aquariums. I always try to dissuade folks from choosing white gravel (or sand) as it will not be white for long. A natural colored sand or gravel (or darker) is easier to maintain or when you do get some algae, it will still look natural. Your plant roots will do a lot of the maintenance for you as far as your worry about the sand not getting turned over properly but if you get some MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails), possibly for free from your LFS or pet store, those will also burrow into the sand and eat any missed food, algae that grows on the sand, etc., and the burrowing keeps the sand turned over so you don't have to do it manually. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium I use my gravel vacs to clean the floor yes, took me a bit to figure out how to do that without sucking up the sand... lol. In the places where the plants are too dense, I use my hands to gently usher the debris towards the vac and use my fingers to stir up the sand a bit to aerate it --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > The white gravel will get slowly mixed in by your fish and any gravel > cleaning that you do. In my planted tanks I can barely see my gravel, LOL. > Do you do your gravel vac's still in this tank or is it too heavily > planted to do a very good job? > > Amber > > Jade wrote: > > > > Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... > > well... life haha. > > > > For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater aquarium. > > It used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of > > guppies, a few platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It > > is completely live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a > > sand bottom(roughly 2-3 inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec > > has been moving around and where it's been lol.) > > > > Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got > > dirty pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the > > aquarium. Could I, in theory, put a small layer of, say, white > > gravel on top of the sand without running into any problems? I know > > some of my plants would enjoy the foot hold, but my concern would be > > with the sand not stirring enough to release any sort of harmful > > build ups. Any advice or suggestions would be welcomed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47843	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: I did the HP treatment

I used the HP on the tail with a Q tip. I am concerned about the tail. It has bubbles on it and it is not able to fan out, it's clamped "shut" as it were. I'm not sure if I burnt it? I did exactly as instructed. And, BTW, there doesn't seem to be any fungus left, as long as I didn't burn off the tail this should be good. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47844	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment

Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I used the HP on the tail with a Q tip. I am concerned about the > tail. It has bubbles on it and it is not able to fan out, it's > clamped "shut" as it were. I'm not sure if I burnt it? > > I did exactly as instructed. > > And, BTW, there doesn't seem to be any fungus left, as long as I > didn't burn off the tail this should be good. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47845	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment

Oops accidentally sent a blank, LOL. I was going to say, I don't think HP is strong enough to burn a fish. The tail could be clamped shut because the fish is still sick somehow (they will do this on their own). Are the bubbles from the HP or are they something different? Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I used the HP on the tail with a Q tip. I am concerned about the > tail. It has bubbles on it and it is not able to fan out, it's > clamped "shut" as it were. I'm not sure if I burnt it? > > I did exactly as instructed. > > And, BTW, there doesn't seem to be any fungus left, as long as I > didn't burn off the tail this should be good. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47846	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment

Bubbles are from the HP. She never has clamped her tail before the treatment, it was a direct result of the HP. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:32 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Oops accidentally sent a blank, LOL. > I was going to say, I don't think HP is strong enough to burn a fish. > The tail could be clamped shut because the fish is still sick somehow > (they will do this on their own). > Are the bubbles from the HP or are they something different? > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I used the HP on the tail with a Q tip. I am concerned about the >> tail. It has bubbles on it and it is not able to fan out, it's >> clamped "shut" as it were. I'm not sure if I burnt it? >> >> I did exactly as instructed. >> >> And, BTW, there doesn't seem to be any fungus left, as long as I >> didn't burn off the tail this should be good. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment

Perhaps it stung a little because he/she has a wound from the fungus? Are there any marks besides the one you said you can only see with a mag. glass? Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Bubbles are from the HP. She never has clamped her tail before the > treatment, it was a direct result of the HP. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:32 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Oops accidentally sent a blank, LOL. > > I was going to say, I don't think HP is strong enough to burn a fish. > > The tail could be clamped shut because the fish is still sick somehow > > (they will do this on their own). > > Are the bubbles from the HP or are they something different? > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> I used the HP on the tail with a Q tip. I am concerned about the > >> tail. It has bubbles on it and it is not able to fan out, it's > >> clamped "shut" as it were. I'm not sure if I burnt it? > >> > >> I did exactly as instructed. > >> > >> And, BTW, there doesn't seem to be any fungus left, as long as I > >> didn't burn off the tail this should be good. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47848	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment

Her whole tail is a bit raggedy from the fungus but otherwise there were just a few tiny clumps of fungus visible. She's clamping the tail because it's uncomfortable from the HP somehow. I can't watch! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Perhaps it stung a little because he/she has a wound from the fungus? > Are there any marks besides the one you said you can only see with a > mag. glass? > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> Bubbles are from the HP. She never has clamped her tail before the >> treatment, it was a direct result of the HP. >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:32 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> Oops accidentally sent a blank, LOL. >>> I was going to say, I don't think HP is strong enough to burn a >>> fish. >>> The tail could be clamped shut because the fish is still sick >>> somehow >>> (they will do this on their own). >>> Are the bubbles from the HP or are they something different? >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> I used the HP on the tail with a Q tip. I am concerned about the >>>> tail. It has bubbles on it and it is not able to fan out, it's >>>> clamped "shut" as it were. I'm not sure if I burnt it? >>>> >>>> I did exactly as instructed. >>>> >>>> And, BTW, there doesn't seem to be any fungus left, as long as I >>>> didn't burn off the tail this should be good. >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> Thank You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> ((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >>> subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >>> and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive >> individual e- >>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47849	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment

I'm sure it will go away soon if it's from the HP. Did you already put her back in the tank? I'm guessing so ;) LOL. I would keep her in the 10 gallon longer than the others to watch her; if she still looks bad when you've gotten the salt content lowered and you're ready to acclimate them to the other tanks water. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Her whole tail is a bit raggedy from the fungus but otherwise there > were just a few tiny clumps of fungus visible. She's clamping the > tail because it's uncomfortable from the HP somehow. I can't watch! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Perhaps it stung a little because he/she has a wound from the fungus? > > Are there any marks besides the one you said you can only see with a > > mag. glass? > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> Bubbles are from the HP. She never has clamped her tail before the > >> treatment, it was a direct result of the HP. > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// > >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> > >> On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:32 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > >> > >>> Oops accidentally sent a blank, LOL. > >>> I was going to say, I don't think HP is strong enough to burn a > >>> fish. > >>> The tail could be clamped shut because the fish is still sick > >>> somehow > >>> (they will do this on their own). > >>> Are the bubbles from the HP or are they something different? > >>> > >>> Amber > >>> > >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I used the HP on the tail with a Q tip. I am concerned about the > >>>> tail. It has bubbles on it and it is not able to fan out, it's > >>>> clamped "shut" as it were. I'm not sure if I burnt it? > >>>> > >>>> I did exactly as instructed. > >>>> > >>>> And, BTW, there doesn't seem to be any fungus left, as long as I > >>>> didn't burn off the tail this should be good. > >>>> > >>>> Lainey > >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> <http:// > >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >>>> > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> Thank You. > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > >>> ((((º> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >>> subject)" <- > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >>> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > >>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > >>> and post replies. > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > >> individual e- > >>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47850	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment

I hope you're right, she looks awful:( Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I'm sure it will go away soon if it's from the HP. Did you already put > her back in the tank? I'm guessing so ;) LOL. > I would keep her in the 10 gallon longer than the others to watch her; > if she still looks bad when you've gotten the salt content lowered and > you're ready to acclimate them to the other tanks water. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> Her whole tail is a bit raggedy from the fungus but otherwise there >> were just a few tiny clumps of fungus visible. She's clamping the >> tail because it's uncomfortable from the HP somehow. I can't watch! >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http:// >> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >> >> On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> Perhaps it stung a little because he/she has a wound from the >>> fungus? >>> Are there any marks besides the one you said you can only see with a >>> mag. glass? >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> Bubbles are from the HP. She never has clamped her tail before the >>>> treatment, it was a direct result of the HP. >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> <http:// >>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>> >>>> On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:32 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oops accidentally sent a blank, LOL. >>>>> I was going to say, I don't think HP is strong enough to burn a >>>>> fish. >>>>> The tail could be clamped shut because the fish is still sick >>>>> somehow >>>>> (they will do this on their own). >>>>> Are the bubbles from the HP or are they something different? >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I used the HP on the tail with a Q tip. I am concerned about the >>>>>> tail. It has bubbles on it and it is not able to fan out, it's >>>>>> clamped "shut" as it were. I'm not sure if I burnt it? >>>>>> >>>>>> I did exactly as instructed. >>>>>> >>>>>> And, BTW, there doesn't seem to be any fungus left, as long as I >>>>>> didn't burn off the tail this should be good. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lainey >>>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> <http:// >>>>>> www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>>>> Thank You. >>>>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>>>> ((((º> >>>>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>>>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >>>>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >>>>> subject)" <- >>>>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>>>> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>>>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>>>> >>>>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>>>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >>>>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>>>> >>>>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the >>>> digest, >>>>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>>>> >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >>>>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >>>>> and post replies. >>>>> >>>>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive >>>> individual e- >>>>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> Thank You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> ((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >>> subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >>> and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive >> individual e- >>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47851	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: I did the HP treatment

If the fin's flesh was already dead or dying or damaged from the fungus, the HP could cause oxidation that would look bad but it's just getting rid of the dead flesh so the healing can begin. Fins will re-grow as long as the peduncle (where the fin attaches to the body) is not damaged. The clamping of the fins could also be a temporary reaction to the treatment. Here's more... http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/how-to-clean-an-ulcer-or-fin-rot.htm l There use to be a good thread with before/during/after treatment but the forums were moved to a different forum hosting service and all of the old photo links were messed up. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 4:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I did the HP treatment Oops accidentally sent a blank, LOL. I was going to say, I don't think HP is strong enough to burn a fish. The tail could be clamped shut because the fish is still sick somehow (they will do this on their own). Are the bubbles from the HP or are they something different? Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I used the HP on the tail with a Q tip. I am concerned about the tail. > It has bubbles on it and it is not able to fan out, it's clamped > "shut" as it were. I'm not sure if I burnt it? > > I did exactly as instructed. > > And, BTW, there doesn't seem to be any fungus left, as long as I > didn't burn off the tail this should be good. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

Jade, Your white gravel will not stay white either. You did not mention your substrate cleaning routine. Do you have one? It is hard to clean sand like gravel is cleaned as the sand will tend to go out of the tank with the water if you are not careful. Please explain how you are taking care of your substrate so we can offer some ideas to help you improve. You do need to realize that the pictures you see of tanks with white substrates are set up specifically for the photos and/or a limited show period. White sand will not remain white in an aquarium, it just seems to in the pictures. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A question about the flooring of my aquarium Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... well... life haha. For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater aquarium. It used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of guppies, a few platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It is completely live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a sand bottom(roughly 2-3 inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec has been moving around and where it's been lol.) Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got dirty pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the aquarium. Could I, in theory, put a small layer of, say, white gravel on top of the sand without running into any problems? I know some of my plants would enjoy the foot hold, but my concern would be with the sand not stirring enough to release any sort of harmful build ups. Any advice or suggestions would be welcomed.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47853	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Lainey, I just want to make sure it is still fungus. It is unusual to take so long to clear up a fungal infection. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured No, it is fungus, Steve. Originally, two weeks ago, this fish had fungus all over its body. All the fungus went away in about 48 hours except the tuft on the tail. This tail tuft has been going away slowly, but now it just won't get any smaller. I think it could be dead fungus, and I see the tail is a little torn where some of the fungus was. That's why I'm not sure if I should treat more or not, but I think better safe than sorry? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 3:42 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in the > finnage, > a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due to an > injury of some > sort. No amount of treatment will remove this white spot. And, that > is all > it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure that it is a remaining > portion of > the fungus you had, I would probably stop treatment, reduce the > salt content > of the water, then move the other fish out, and keep this guy > quarantined > for a while longer to see if this spot grows or not. If it remains > as it is, > I'd not worry about it, if it grows, then I would continue > treatment based > on the look of it. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple > of weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > won't go away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really > see it but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get > rid of every last speck. > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, > and the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > think ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh > since the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > only change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five > gallon tank. > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > with all fresh water? > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > this product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such > tiny fish? > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is > all fresh? > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > hopefully)? > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them > all together? > > THANK YOU! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47854	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

You know, it could have been Columnaris (Flexibacter) which is bacterial but looks like a fungus. This next article discusses Columnaris but also discusses Saprolegnia, which is a true fungus. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html I don't recall how this issue was determined to be fungus and not Columnaris. The high salt treatment would also be very helpful for Columnaris since it doesn't like salt water conditions either. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured Lainey, I just want to make sure it is still fungus. It is unusual to take so long to clear up a fungal infection. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured No, it is fungus, Steve. Originally, two weeks ago, this fish had fungus all over its body. All the fungus went away in about 48 hours except the tuft on the tail. This tail tuft has been going away slowly, but now it just won't get any smaller. I think it could be dead fungus, and I see the tail is a little torn where some of the fungus was. That's why I'm not sure if I should treat more or not, but I think better safe than sorry? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 3:42 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in the > finnage, a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due to an > injury of some sort. No amount of treatment will remove this white > spot. And, that is all it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure that it > is a remaining portion of the fungus you had, I would probably stop > treatment, reduce the salt content of the water, then move the other > fish out, and keep this guy quarantined for a while longer to see if > this spot grows or not. If it remains as it is, I'd not worry about > it, if it grows, then I would continue treatment based on the look of > it. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a couple of > weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just won't go > away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really see it > but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get rid of > every last speck. > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons water, and > the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I think > ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh since > the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to only > change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five gallon > tank. > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > with all fresh water? > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, this > product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such tiny > fish? > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is > all fresh? > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > hopefully)? > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them > all together? > > THANK YOU! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47855	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

I did rule out columnaris - from photos. It did not look like the pictures of columnaris, but did look exactly like fungus pictures. Also, I've had fungus before so I recognize it. "Tuft"'s tail looks dreadful still, very clamped and kind of rotted on the ends but yellowy in the middle (all since the HP) - but Tuft herself is having a whale of a time, bingeing on microworms and swimming freely as though a chemical tail amputation were the least of her concerns. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You know, it could have been Columnaris (Flexibacter) which is > bacterial but > looks like a fungus. This next article discusses Columnaris but also > discusses Saprolegnia, which is a true fungus. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > > I don't recall how this issue was determined to be fungus and not > Columnaris. The high salt treatment would also be very helpful for > Columnaris since it doesn't like salt water conditions either. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > Lainey, > > I just want to make sure it is still fungus. It is unusual to take > so long > to clear up a fungal infection. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > No, it is fungus, Steve. Originally, two weeks ago, this fish had > fungus all > over its body. All the fungus went away in about 48 hours except > the tuft on > the tail. This tail tuft has been going away slowly, but now it > just won't > get any smaller. I think it could be dead fungus, and I see the > tail is a > little torn where some of the fungus was. That's why I'm not sure if I > should treat more or not, but I think better safe than sorry? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 3:42 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in the > > finnage, a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due > to an > > injury of some sort. No amount of treatment will remove this white > > spot. And, that is all it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure > that it > > is a remaining portion of the fungus you had, I would probably stop > > treatment, reduce the salt content of the water, then move the other > > fish out, and keep this guy quarantined for a while longer to see if > > this spot grows or not. If it remains as it is, I'd not worry about > > it, if it grows, then I would continue treatment based on the > look of > > it. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with > > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF > > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a > couple of > > weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > won't go > > away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really see it > > but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get rid of > > every last speck. > > > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons > water, and > > the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I think > > ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh > since > > the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > only > > change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five gallon > > tank. > > > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > > with all fresh water? > > > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > this > > product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such tiny > > fish? > > > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is > > all fresh? > > > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > > hopefully)? > > > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them > > all together? > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47856	From: Jade	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

I do understand that it will not stay white... I would just like something lighter than the tan-ish color it is now. As far as my substrate cleaning routine I don't exactly have one... I carefully stir up the sand with my gravel vac by moving it in slow, small circles, keeping it angled just right so that the sand slides back to the bottom instead of up the hose. Aside from that, the plants are honestly doing most of the work for me, my aquarium has never thrived more with less of my interference in all of the years I hvae had one. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Jade, > > Your white gravel will not stay white either. You did not mention your > substrate cleaning routine. Do you have one? It is hard to clean sand like > gravel is cleaned as the sand will tend to go out of the tank with the water > if you are not careful. Please explain how you are taking care of your > substrate so we can offer some ideas to help you improve. > > You do need to realize that the pictures you see of tanks with white > substrates are set up specifically for the photos and/or a limited show > period. White sand will not remain white in an aquarium, it just seems to in > the pictures. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] A question about the flooring of my aquarium > > Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... > well... life haha. > > For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater aquarium. It > used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of guppies, a few > platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It is completely > live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a sand bottom(roughly 2-3 > inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec has been moving around and where > it's been lol.) > > Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got dirty > pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the aquarium. Could I, > in theory, put a small layer of, say, white gravel on top of the sand > without running into any problems? I know some of my plants would enjoy the > foot hold, but my concern would be with the sand not stirring enough to > release any sort of harmful build ups. Any advice or suggestions would be > welcomed. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47857	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Well that's good. Tuft wasn't eating prior to this... right? And as long as the fin rot doesn't or didn't go down into the peduncle, the fin will grow back. You might want to keep an eye on Tuft and keep him quarantined a little longer, as sometimes, a fish that is injured will be picked on and a fish with an injured fin will be much slower and may not be able to escape as it would like. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured I did rule out columnaris - from photos. It did not look like the pictures of columnaris, but did look exactly like fungus pictures. Also, I've had fungus before so I recognize it. "Tuft"'s tail looks dreadful still, very clamped and kind of rotted on the ends but yellowy in the middle (all since the HP) - but Tuft herself is having a whale of a time, bingeing on microworms and swimming freely as though a chemical tail amputation were the least of her concerns. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You know, it could have been Columnaris (Flexibacter) which is > bacterial but looks like a fungus. This next article discusses > Columnaris but also discusses Saprolegnia, which is a true fungus. > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > > I don't recall how this issue was determined to be fungus and not > Columnaris. The high salt treatment would also be very helpful for > Columnaris since it doesn't like salt water conditions either. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > Lainey, > > I just want to make sure it is still fungus. It is unusual to take so > long to clear up a fungal infection. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > No, it is fungus, Steve. Originally, two weeks ago, this fish had > fungus all over its body. All the fungus went away in about 48 hours > except the tuft on the tail. This tail tuft has been going away > slowly, but now it just won't get any smaller. I think it could be > dead fungus, and I see the tail is a little torn where some of the > fungus was. That's why I'm not sure if I should treat more or not, but > I think better safe than sorry? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 3:42 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in the > > finnage, a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due > to an > > injury of some sort. No amount of treatment will remove this white > > spot. And, that is all it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure > that it > > is a remaining portion of the fungus you had, I would probably stop > > treatment, reduce the salt content of the water, then move the other > > fish out, and keep this guy quarantined for a while longer to see if > > this spot grows or not. If it remains as it is, I'd not worry about > > it, if it grows, then I would continue treatment based on the > look of > > it. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa with > > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other five HF > > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a > couple of > > weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > won't go > > away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really see it > > but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get rid of > > every last speck. > > > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons > water, and > > the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I think > > ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh > since > > the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > only > > change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five gallon > > tank. > > > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > > with all fresh water? > > > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > this > > product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such tiny > > fish? > > > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the water is > > all fresh? > > > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > > hopefully)? > > > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat them > > all together? > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47858	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

She was eating well since about the second day of treatment, but my point was just that even though her tail looks hellish, she must feel OK. These are very gentle fish, but I will monitor her tail and aggression, of course. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 9:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well that's good. Tuft wasn't eating prior to this... right? > > And as long as the fin rot doesn't or didn't go down into the > peduncle, the > fin will grow back. You might want to keep an eye on Tuft and keep him > quarantined a little longer, as sometimes, a fish that is injured > will be > picked on and a fish with an injured fin will be much slower and > may not be > able to escape as it would like. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > I did rule out columnaris - from photos. It did not look like the > pictures > of columnaris, but did look exactly like fungus pictures. > Also, I've had fungus before so I recognize it. > > "Tuft"'s tail looks dreadful still, very clamped and kind of rotted > on the > ends but yellowy in the middle (all since the HP) - but Tuft > herself is > having a whale of a time, bingeing on microworms and swimming > freely as > though a chemical tail amputation were the least of her concerns. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You know, it could have been Columnaris (Flexibacter) which is > > bacterial but looks like a fungus. This next article discusses > > Columnaris but also discusses Saprolegnia, which is a true fungus. > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > > > > I don't recall how this issue was determined to be fungus and not > > Columnaris. The high salt treatment would also be very helpful for > > Columnaris since it doesn't like salt water conditions either. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > Lainey, > > > > I just want to make sure it is still fungus. It is unusual to > take so > > long to clear up a fungal infection. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > No, it is fungus, Steve. Originally, two weeks ago, this fish had > > fungus all over its body. All the fungus went away in about 48 hours > > except the tuft on the tail. This tail tuft has been going away > > slowly, but now it just won't get any smaller. I think it could be > > dead fungus, and I see the tail is a little torn where some of the > > fungus was. That's why I'm not sure if I should treat more or > not, but > > I think better safe than sorry? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 3:42 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in > the > > > finnage, a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due > > to an > > > injury of some sort. No amount of treatment will remove this white > > > spot. And, that is all it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure > > that it > > > is a remaining portion of the fungus you had, I would probably > stop > > > treatment, reduce the salt content of the water, then move the > other > > > fish out, and keep this guy quarantined for a while longer to > see if > > > this spot grows or not. If it remains as it is, I'd not worry > about > > > it, if it grows, then I would continue treatment based on the > > look of > > > it. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa > with > > > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other > five HF > > > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a > > couple of > > > weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > > won't go > > > away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really > see it > > > but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get rid of > > > every last speck. > > > > > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > > > > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons > > water, and > > > the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > think > > > ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh > > since > > > the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > > > > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > > only > > > change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five gallon > > > tank. > > > > > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > > > with all fresh water? > > > > > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > > this > > > product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such tiny > > > fish? > > > > > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the > water is > > > all fresh? > > > > > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > > > hopefully)? > > > > > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > > > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat > them > > > all together? > > > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47859	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Lainey, Could you refresh my memory? Were these an aquabid purchase? I had some aquabid losses of the same fish and am wondering if the seller needs to stop selling them until theirs are healthy. Feel free to email me offlist if this is the case and you want to share the seller with me. -Mike G. -----Original Message----- From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 6:53 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured She was eating well since about the second day of treatment, but my point was just that even though her tail looks hellish, she must feel OK. These are very gentle fish, but I will monitor her tail and aggression, of course. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 9:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well that's good. Tuft wasn't eating prior to this... right? > > And as long as the fin rot doesn't or didn't go down into the > peduncle, the > fin will grow back. You might want to keep an eye on Tuft and keep him > quarantined a little longer, as sometimes, a fish that is injured > will be > picked on and a fish with an injured fin will be much slower and > may not be > able to escape as it would like. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > I did rule out columnaris - from photos. It did not look like the > pictures > of columnaris, but did look exactly like fungus pictures. > Also, I've had fungus before so I recognize it. > > "Tuft"'s tail looks dreadful still, very clamped and kind of rotted > on the > ends but yellowy in the middle (all since the HP) - but Tuft > herself is > having a whale of a time, bingeing on microworms and swimming > freely as > though a chemical tail amputation were the least of her concerns. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > You know, it could have been Columnaris (Flexibacter) which is > > bacterial but looks like a fungus. This next article discusses > > Columnaris but also discusses Saprolegnia, which is a true fungus. > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > > > > I don't recall how this issue was determined to be fungus and not > > Columnaris. The high salt treatment would also be very helpful for > > Columnaris since it doesn't like salt water conditions either. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > Lainey, > > > > I just want to make sure it is still fungus. It is unusual to > take so > > long to clear up a fungal infection. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:19 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > No, it is fungus, Steve. Originally, two weeks ago, this fish had > > fungus all over its body. All the fungus went away in about 48 hours > > except the tuft on the tail. This tail tuft has been going away > > slowly, but now it just won't get any smaller. I think it could be > > dead fungus, and I see the tail is a little torn where some of the > > fungus was. That's why I'm not sure if I should treat more or > not, but > > I think better safe than sorry? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 3:42 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in > the > > > finnage, a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due > > to an > > > injury of some sort. No amount of treatment will remove this white > > > spot. And, that is all it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure > > that it > > > is a remaining portion of the fungus you had, I would probably > stop > > > treatment, reduce the salt content of the water, then move the > other > > > fish out, and keep this guy quarantined for a while longer to > see if > > > this spot grows or not. If it remains as it is, I'd not worry > about > > > it, if it grows, then I would continue treatment based on the > > look of > > > it. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa > with > > > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other > five HF > > > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a > > couple of > > > weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > > won't go > > > away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really > see it > > > but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get rid of > > > every last speck. > > > > > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't curative. > > > > > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons > > water, and > > > the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > think > > > ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh > > since > > > the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > > > > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > > only > > > change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five gallon > > > tank. > > > > > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe to go > > > with all fresh water? > > > > > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want to, > > this > > > product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such tiny > > > fish? > > > > > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the > water is > > > all fresh? > > > > > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > > > hopefully)? > > > > > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a real > > > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat > them > > > all together? > > > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47860	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/16/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Yes, it was an aquabid seller, but I will email you or anyone else privately as to the name. BTW Sachs has great heterandria I found out too late:( Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 16, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Deenerz@... wrote: > Lainey, > > Could you refresh my memory? Were these an aquabid purchase? > I had some aquabid losses of the same fish and am wondering if the > seller needs to stop selling them until theirs are healthy. > > Feel free to email me offlist if this is the case and you want to > share > the seller with me. > > -Mike G. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 6:53 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > She was eating well since about the second day of treatment, but my > point was just that even though her tail looks hellish, she must feel > OK. These are very gentle fish, but I will monitor her tail and > aggression, of course. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 9:54 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well that's good. Tuft wasn't eating prior to this... right? > > > > And as long as the fin rot doesn't or didn't go down into the > > peduncle, the > > fin will grow back. You might want to keep an eye on Tuft and > keep him > > quarantined a little longer, as sometimes, a fish that is injured > > will be > > picked on and a fish with an injured fin will be much slower and > > may not be > > able to escape as it would like. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:00 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > I did rule out columnaris - from photos. It did not look like the > > pictures > > of columnaris, but did look exactly like fungus pictures. > > Also, I've had fungus before so I recognize it. > > > > "Tuft"'s tail looks dreadful still, very clamped and kind of rotted > > on the > > ends but yellowy in the middle (all since the HP) - but Tuft > > herself is > > having a whale of a time, bingeing on microworms and swimming > > freely as > > though a chemical tail amputation were the least of her concerns. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > You know, it could have been Columnaris (Flexibacter) which is > > > bacterial but looks like a fungus. This next article discusses > > > Columnaris but also discusses Saprolegnia, which is a true fungus. > > > > > > http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html > > > > > > I don't recall how this issue was determined to be fungus and not > > > Columnaris. The high salt treatment would also be very helpful for > > > Columnaris since it doesn't like salt water conditions either. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > I just want to make sure it is still fungus. It is unusual to > > take so > > > long to clear up a fungal infection. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:19 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > > > No, it is fungus, Steve. Originally, two weeks ago, this fish had > > > fungus all over its body. All the fungus went away in about 48 > hours > > > except the tuft on the tail. This tail tuft has been going away > > > slowly, but now it just won't get any smaller. I think it could be > > > dead fungus, and I see the tail is a little torn where some of the > > > fungus was. That's why I'm not sure if I should treat more or > > not, but > > > I think better safe than sorry? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Apr 16, 2010, at 3:42 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > > > Are you positive what you are seeing is a fungus? Sometimes, in > > the > > > > finnage, a fish will develop a white spot. Generally this is due > > > to an > > > > injury of some sort. No amount of treatment will remove this > white > > > > spot. And, that is all it is, a spot. If you are not 100% sure > > > that it > > > > is a remaining portion of the fungus you had, I would probably > > stop > > > > treatment, reduce the salt content of the water, then move the > > other > > > > fish out, and keep this guy quarantined for a while longer to > > see if > > > > this spot grows or not. If it remains as it is, I'd not worry > > about > > > > it, if it grows, then I would continue treatment based on the > > > look of > > > > it. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:48 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria fungus still not cured > > > > > > > > I am not sure what to do next for my female heterandria formosa > > with > > > > the tuft of fungus on the tail. I have had her and the other > > five HF > > > > in a 5 g quarantine with 2 tablespoons salt per gallon for a > > > couple of > > > > weeks now. The fungus is mostly gone, but a small amount just > > > won't go > > > > away. It's very small, you have to use a mag glass to really > > see it > > > > but I have heard that it will just come back if I don't get > rid of > > > > every last speck. > > > > > > > > I tried the API Pimafix and I guess it helped but wasn't > curative. > > > > > > > > I tried raising the salt to 13 tablespoons per five gallons > > > water, and > > > > the fish acted badly, seeming very lethargic and stoned. So I > > think > > > > ten T is the limit. Now I have started to go back down to fresh > > > since > > > > the salt isn't really helping at this point. > > > > > > > > I have several questions. Ray said that when going back to FW to > > > only > > > > change ten percent per day which is half a gallon per five > gallon > > > > tank. > > > > > > > > 1. How many days should I do this before I am sure I am safe > to go > > > > with all fresh water? > > > > > > > > 2. Do I have to use malachite green now - I really don't want > to, > > > this > > > > product is just too toxic for my taste, especially with such > tiny > > > > fish? > > > > > > > > 3. Can I use Mardel Maracyn? If so, should I wait until the > > water is > > > > all fresh? > > > > > > > > 4. If no to #2 and #3, is there something else (not formalyn > > > > hopefully)? > > > > > > > > 4. Is this contagious? Can I place the five healthy ones in a > real > > > > tank and just treat the fungal tuft one? Or do I need to treat > > them > > > > all together? > > > > > > > > THANK YOU! > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.· > ´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important > to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .· > ´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47861	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

Jade, Just a thought, and I do not know how well this may work, would be to remove a portion of your sand substrate each water change, clean and bleach it and then rinse well. You will not be able to do this to all the sand, with your plantings, but maybe enough of it to make the overall impression a bit brighter. If this method shows some promise, you may wish to buy more white sand so that you can remove a larger amount at a time, replace it with more sand, to keep the overall appearance of your tank the same. We should note, however, that with a lighter substrate, you r fish may not display as well, with their colors appearing a bit washed out. The addition of Malaysian trumpet snails, that, I believe, Lenny mentioned, may not keep your sand whiter, but it may help you keep it cleaner, and will certainly help to keep it from becoming too compact. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium I do understand that it will not stay white... I would just like something lighter than the tan-ish color it is now. As far as my substrate cleaning routine I don't exactly have one... I carefully stir up the sand with my gravel vac by moving it in slow, small circles, keeping it angled just right so that the sand slides back to the bottom instead of up the hose. Aside from that, the plants are honestly doing most of the work for me, my aquarium has never thrived more with less of my interference in all of the years I hvae had one. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Jade, > > Your white gravel will not stay white either. You did not mention your > substrate cleaning routine. Do you have one? It is hard to clean sand like > gravel is cleaned as the sand will tend to go out of the tank with the water > if you are not careful. Please explain how you are taking care of your > substrate so we can offer some ideas to help you improve. > > You do need to realize that the pictures you see of tanks with white > substrates are set up specifically for the photos and/or a limited show > period. White sand will not remain white in an aquarium, it just seems to in > the pictures. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:31 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] A question about the flooring of my aquarium > > Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... > well... life haha. > > For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater aquarium. It > used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of guppies, a few > platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It is completely > live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a sand bottom(roughly 2-3 > inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec has been moving around and where > it's been lol.) > > Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got dirty > pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the aquarium. Could I, > in theory, put a small layer of, say, white gravel on top of the sand > without running into any problems? I know some of my plants would enjoy the > foot hold, but my concern would be with the sand not stirring enough to > release any sort of harmful build ups. Any advice or suggestions would be > welcomed. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47862	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: National Aquarium Gets a Facelift

No, this is not the one in Baltimore, but the real one, first established in Woods Hole, MA in the 1800's, then moved a few times, eventually landing in the basement of the Commerce Department building in Washington, DC. http://www.washingtoninformer.com/wi-web/index.php?option=com_content&view=a rticle&id=3405:national-aquarium-gets-a-facelift-&catid=50:local&Itemid=113 http://tinyurl.com/y5tkw7y National Aquarium Gets a Facelift Local By Norma Porter Anthony - WI Staff Writer Thursday, April 15, 2010 Washington Informer Grand Reopening Piques Interest of Parents and Children Down a dark, winding staircase and tucked away in the headquarters of a federal government agency building in Northwest dwells America's most exquisite aquatic treasures. While the Cherry Blossom parade captured the attention of most Americans last weekend, others gathered to hear the call of the blue whale on a new Smart Board that displays a 3D depiction of the enormous mammal and see new schools of fish and amphibians at the grand reopening of the National Aquarium at the U.S. Department of Commerce in Northwest, Sat., April 10. "I haven't been here since I was in school in the '80s," said Mensah Battle, a District resident. Battle, a teacher's assistant at a Prince George's County, Md. elementary school got a kick out of the new digs for the fish. "I think the aquarium looks great and very colorful. There's a good variety of fish and the facts about the fish and where they come from are very informative." Battle, 30, like other visitors bought his four-year-old son Noah to the newly renovated aquarium for a peek at the center's two new Loggerhead sea turtles and four American alligators. Noah and other children shouted "Dory" the regal tang, a blue and yellow tropical fish featured in the Disney children's film Finding Nemo, as they peered into the fish tank. Standing on top of a platform overlooking four young alligators Noah said, "I like it [the National Aquarium] a lot! I like the fish and the alligators," the youngster said. Under the theme of America's Aquatic Treasure, the National Aquarium features some of the most exotic and endangered species of fish and amphibians, that includes three species of shark-the horn shark, the leopard shark and the swell shark, a great American lobster and an electric eel. Visitors walk through the aquarium in awe of the mythical sea horses, colorful coral reefs and an octopus, which all come from North and South America. They stop and read in-depth information displayed on plaques about each fish and amphibian on display. The aquarium, divided into two sections, features both salt and fresh water fish and amphibians. The aquarium has been located inside of the U.S. Department of Commerce at 1401 Constitution Avenue since 1931. More than 250 species of aquatic life including sharks, alligators and tropical fish are on display. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47863	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Hi Lainey, I regret that I was unavailable to do much posting the last few days, and I'm sorry to hear that Tuft has now deleloped issues associated with the latest treatment he was given. As Lenny stated, either Hydrogen Peroxide or Pimafix (or both) over the next few days could probably have effected a complete cure -- without the dangers of the HP. I would not have used Hydrogen Peroxide as a topical treatment as this is a strong oxidant (it "burns" tissue -- both dead and newly formed skin cells -- on contact, in a similar manner as to how oxygen adds to the combustibility of a burning fuel -- it speeds it up, but dangerously so in living tissue). Used straight from the bottle (as a 3% solution), HP is absorbed by the skin (humans', fishes' or any other animal's skin) upon contact and can create local skin embolism that appears as temporary white blotches under the tissue. It sounds as though this reaction may have occurred with your fish, with possibly getting minute bubbles of oxygen trapped within the tissue. You may have seen how HP will bubble profusely when you use it in a cut; it is releasing it's extra content of oxygen as it quickly breaks down (into oxygen and water) in contact with both the bacteria in the cut and your tissue during it's process of oxidizing these cells. As it is also absorbed by the skin (or other living tissue), some of this extra oxygen can become trapped within it. Hopefully, this will not be permanent, although I really can't tell you one way or the other concerning this condition. Hydrogen Peroxide, either as a short bath or as a somewhat longer treatment -- in the right quantity/solution -- is perfectly safe for fish, provided any stronger solution does not come in contact with the gill membranes. Still, I don't like recommending it as in the wrong hands it can be injurious to fish even if used in dilution as a longer term treatment by someone not adding the correct dose. As for HP and its effects on living tissue, all animal cells produce one or another form of "catalase" for protection against free radicals. In practice, dilute H2O2 (HP 3% solution sufficiently dissolved in water) in contact with living cells is rapidly decomposed (into O2 and H2O) by catalase before it can do any damage to the cells. At higher concentrations, this HP deterioration (breaking down into O2 and H2O) by these naturally protective catalase is too slow to prevent damage to the cells, and this is where the problems of topical application come in to play. All aerobic and facultative bacteria cells also produce catalase as do most plant cells and also fungi, which can sometimes produce two. These periodase (catalase) -- or, oxidoreductase enzymes-- effectively convert such free radicals in their process of being antioxidants, and render these extra O2 molecules harmless in the normally slow production of these oxidants in normal cell metabolism. When adding additional quantities of oxidants, as one would be doing when treating with Hydrogen Peroxide, these catalase would be overwealmed, resulting in the cells' death. This is why HP baths and longer term (several days) treatment with HP is effective against these pathogens -- and completely safe for the fish provided the correct solution of HP is administered. But when used full strength (3%) from the bottle directly onto live fish tissue, it can be dangerous if allowed to remain in contact for any length of time -- and that length of time is miniscule. For proper fish treatment with HP against pathogens, it's safe when used -- added to the tank in a pre-mixed portion of some water -- as approximately 2 Tablespoons (of 3% bottled solution) per 10 gallons of aquarium water for a longer term treatment (this is equivilent to 1 ounce of HP per 10 gallons), refreshing it at the same amount no sooner than every 24 hours. To be more precise, dosing at 4 ounces per 35 gallons is more in the ball park for the treatment, which will dilute in the aquarium to 140 ppm. For a short (yet safe) bath, a mix of either 2 ounces (4 Tablespoons) of 3% HP per 5 gallons for 30 minutes or 4 ounces (8 Tablespoons) per 5 gallons for 15 minutes would be used -- with the longer 30 minute (2 ounce per 5 gallon) bath being preferable for smaller fishes. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47864	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Oh dear. I sensed that the HP burned Tuft's tail as soon as I saw it. It was only on there for about two seconds. Thank you so much for all this information, Ray. I should have waited to hear back from you, but I assumed that no post from you meant that you were in agreement with the HP topical plan. I should not have assumed that, but... Poor thing. The tail does seem a bit necrotic to me, like a bit tan and discolored rather than clear/transluscent. Also, the edge of the tail kind of burned off. I think that may have had the fungus/fin rot on it because it was a bit ragged before the HP, but the HP corroded more of it. Tuft doesn't seem to mind, but the tail is firmly clamped and just wrong looking. I won't do any more other than observe. I guess my current concern is whether the damage from the HP will cause it to become re-infected with fungus! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 17, 2010, at 10:46 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Hi Lainey, I regret that I was unavailable to do much posting the > last few > days, and I'm sorry to hear that Tuft has now deleloped issues > associated > with the latest treatment he was given. As Lenny stated, either > Hydrogen > Peroxide or Pimafix (or both) over the next few days could probably > have > effected a complete cure -- without the dangers of the HP. > > I would not have used Hydrogen Peroxide as a topical treatment as > this is a > strong oxidant (it "burns" tissue -- both dead and newly formed > skin cells > -- on contact, in a similar manner as to how oxygen adds to the > combustibility of a burning fuel -- it speeds it up, but > dangerously so in living > tissue). > > Used straight from the bottle (as a 3% solution), HP is absorbed by > the > skin (humans', fishes' or any other animal's skin) upon contact and > can create > local skin embolism that appears as temporary white blotches under the > tissue. It sounds as though this reaction may have occurred with > your fish, with > possibly getting minute bubbles of oxygen trapped within the > tissue. You > may have seen how HP will bubble profusely when you use it in a > cut; it is > releasing it's extra content of oxygen as it quickly breaks down > (into oxygen > and water) in contact with both the bacteria in the cut and your > tissue > during it's process of oxidizing these cells. As it is also > absorbed by the skin > (or other living tissue), some of this extra oxygen can become trapped > within it. Hopefully, this will not be permanent, although I really > can't tell > you one way or the other concerning this condition. > > Hydrogen Peroxide, either as a short bath or as a somewhat longer > treatment > -- in the right quantity/solution -- is perfectly safe for fish, > provided > any stronger solution does not come in contact with the gill > membranes. > Still, I don't like recommending it as in the wrong hands it can be > injurious to > fish even if used in dilution as a longer term treatment by someone > not > adding the correct dose. As for HP and its effects on living > tissue, all > animal cells produce one or another form of "catalase" for > protection against > free radicals. In practice, dilute H2O2 (HP 3% solution > sufficiently dissolved > in water) in contact with living cells is rapidly decomposed (into > O2 and > H2O) by catalase before it can do any damage to the cells. At higher > concentrations, this HP deterioration (breaking down into O2 and > H2O) by these > naturally protective catalase is too slow to prevent damage to the > cells, and > this is where the problems of topical application come in to play. > > All aerobic and facultative bacteria cells also produce catalase as > do most > plant cells and also fungi, which can sometimes produce two. These > periodase (catalase) -- or, oxidoreductase enzymes-- effectively > convert such free > radicals in their process of being antioxidants, and render these > extra O2 > molecules harmless in the normally slow production of these > oxidants in > normal cell metabolism. When adding additional quantities of > oxidants, as one > would be doing when treating with Hydrogen Peroxide, these catalase > would be > overwealmed, resulting in the cells' death. This is why HP baths > and longer > term (several days) treatment with HP is effective against these > pathogens > -- and completely safe for the fish provided the correct solution > of HP is > administered. But when used full strength (3%) from the bottle > directly onto > live fish tissue, it can be dangerous if allowed to remain in > contact for > any length of time -- and that length of time is miniscule. > > For proper fish treatment with HP against pathogens, it's safe when > used -- > added to the tank in a pre-mixed portion of some water -- as > approximately > 2 Tablespoons (of 3% bottled solution) per 10 gallons of aquarium > water for > a longer term treatment (this is equivilent to 1 ounce of HP per 10 > gallons), refreshing it at the same amount no sooner than every 24 > hours. To be > more precise, dosing at 4 ounces per 35 gallons is more in the ball > park for > the treatment, which will dilute in the aquarium to 140 ppm. For a > short (yet > safe) bath, a mix of either 2 ounces (4 Tablespoons) of 3% HP per 5 > gallons > for 30 minutes or 4 ounces (8 Tablespoons) per 5 gallons for 15 > minutes > would be used -- with the longer 30 minute (2 ounce per 5 gallon) > bath being > preferable for smaller fishes. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47865	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

No, there's no reason to believe it will become reinfected, unless some of those cells can no longer produce a mucous coating, but then there's no way for us to know that yet. Even if this were to happen, and I'm not contemplating it will, if surrounding cells can produce enough slime it should spread over the adjacent tissues enough to protect it. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47866	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Ray, Using topical treatment of 3% HP or Iodine or Betadine is commonly done on larger fish so I'm not sure why it would make that much difference on smaller fish as long is care is taken to make sure the HP only comes into contact with the injured area and only for a brief time before rinsing or returning the fish to water. Any damaged tissue is usually going to be tissue that was already damaged/dying/dead and care was taken to only get the HP on the damaged tail fin that had been attacked by fungus for the past couple of weeks. In every case I've seen where HP was used on fin rot or other treatment, the injured area always grew back healthy as long as the fin rot issue didn't cause the fin to rot down into the peduncle of the tail fin. This is a pretty common treatment in the goldfish hobby with folks that insist on keeping their goldfish in undersized tanks where water quality issues and resultant fin rot issues are unfortunately common occurrences. I don't hang out in the goldfish forums too often any longer except for a couple of Yahoo Groups because so any goldfish forums insist on preaching the 10G per goldfish killing-rule and I gave up on trying to teach them... but at least they do get pretty good at healing sick goldfish since they have so many of them. :-( Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured No, there's no reason to believe it will become reinfected, unless some of those cells can no longer produce a mucous coating, but then there's no way for us to know that yet. Even if this were to happen, and I'm not contemplating it will, if surrounding cells can produce enough slime it should spread over the adjacent tissues enough to protect it. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47867	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria fungus still not cured

Lenny, Nothing wrong with Iodine or Betadine for use as a topical application on fish. I've used them myself as well as Mercurochrome and Colloidal Silver for wounds or sores on fish, or even for specific bacterial or fungal issues. Yes, any damaged tissue is usually going to be any tissue that was already damaged, dying or dead, but on top of that, HP is also absorbed by living tissue underneath the damaged/dead tissue, and can damage that -- it is a known fact that HP will oxidize newly formed skin cells!. Since you've never had a problem using HP on fish, perhaps Lainey used a stronger solution. HP normally is sold as a 3% solution for home antiseptic use. It is also sold as 5%, 6% and increasingly stronger solutions. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47868	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/17/2010
Subject: Good news

Tuft seems to have recovered. Her tail is looking pretty normal now, less yellow and the only problem is the edges are torn or ragged looking. But she is fanning the tail normally now, and - drumroll - no fungus. I did use 3% hydrogen peroxide and it obviously oxidated to produce the bubbles, and it did remove some of the edging of the tail which I presume had already been damaged by fungus. I'm not sure I would do this again, but I'm pleased with the fact that the fungus is gone and the fish looks good. Thank you all... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47869	From: Jade	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

Steve, Hm, I'm a bit quirky about using bleach on anything that's within a few feet of my aquarium much less on something to go INSIDE the aquarium, haha. I will give the snails a try ASAP. Do you have any suggestions for a lighter substrate other than white...that will stay relatively bright? I do like the natural look of the sand, but it's also much more noticeable when it's dirty. I have some rocks and drift wood in there for my java moss (which doesn't seem to like the sand too well but it's slowly starting to grow) but aside from plant roots it's all sand, so any ideas as to what I could use instead of or in conjunction with the sand would be welcome =D --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Jade, > > Just a thought, and I do not know how well this may work, would be to remove > a portion of your sand substrate each water change, clean and bleach it and > then rinse well. You will not be able to do this to all the sand, with your > plantings, but maybe enough of it to make the overall impression a bit > brighter. If this method shows some promise, you may wish to buy more white > sand so that you can remove a larger amount at a time, replace it with more > sand, to keep the overall appearance of your tank the same. > > We should note, however, that with a lighter substrate, you r fish may not > display as well, with their colors appearing a bit washed out. > > The addition of Malaysian trumpet snails, that, I believe, Lenny mentioned, > may not keep your sand whiter, but it may help you keep it cleaner, and will > certainly help to keep it from becoming too compact. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium > > I do understand that it will not stay white... I would just like something > lighter than the tan-ish color it is now. As far as my substrate cleaning > routine I don't exactly have one... I carefully stir up the sand with my > gravel vac by moving it in slow, small circles, keeping it angled just right > so that the sand slides back to the bottom instead of up the hose. Aside > from that, the plants are honestly doing most of the work for me, my > aquarium has never thrived more with less of my interference in all of the > years I hvae had one. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Jade, > > > > Your white gravel will not stay white either. You did not mention your > > substrate cleaning routine. Do you have one? It is hard to clean sand like > > gravel is cleaned as the sand will tend to go out of the tank with the > water > > if you are not careful. Please explain how you are taking care of your > > substrate so we can offer some ideas to help you improve. > > > > You do need to realize that the pictures you see of tanks with white > > substrates are set up specifically for the photos and/or a limited show > > period. White sand will not remain white in an aquarium, it just seems to > in > > the pictures. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:31 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] A question about the flooring of my aquarium > > > > Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... > > well... life haha. > > > > For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater aquarium. It > > used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of guppies, a few > > platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It is completely > > live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a sand bottom(roughly > 2-3 > > inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec has been moving around and > where > > it's been lol.) > > > > Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got dirty > > pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the aquarium. Could > I, > > in theory, put a small layer of, say, white gravel on top of the sand > > without running into any problems? I know some of my plants would enjoy > the > > foot hold, but my concern would be with the sand not stirring enough to > > release any sort of harmful build ups. Any advice or suggestions would be > > welcomed. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47870	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: Good news

Lainey, That's great news. I did mention that this embolism is temporary, but from your description of these bubbles being trapped I did not want to give you any false hope not know if there would not be any residuals. From the way it appears that this temporary condition can impact much smaller fish as yours in a much larger way, as opposed to how it might affect much larger fish such as adult Goldfish, I would still have reservations about using HP on your sized fish. I'm glad to hear she's looking and acting more normal now. Yeah, I would suspect the fungus is gone < g >. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47871	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

Jade, There is no problem using bleach for cleaning aquarium related items, and even empty aquariums. One just needs to rinse very well prior to using the item. Even letting it dry thoroughly will remove any remaining chlorine. Your water conditioner will also protect any inhabitants of your tank from any chlorine that may remain. Bleach is a very effective cleanser, and, in your case, along with sun, will help to bring back the color of your sand where nothing else will, except sun and rinsing with plain water--but that would take more time than you would like, weeks or months, or even longer. While one should use bleach with care, there is no need to shy away from it, so long a it is used properly, and items are thoroughly rinsed with water, which, most likely, contains chlorine, the active ingredient in bleach, though in lesser amounts. Just ensure you are using plain bleach, not one with detergents or perfumes in it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jade Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 1:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium Steve, Hm, I'm a bit quirky about using bleach on anything that's within a few feet of my aquarium much less on something to go INSIDE the aquarium, haha. I will give the snails a try ASAP. Do you have any suggestions for a lighter substrate other than white...that will stay relatively bright? I do like the natural look of the sand, but it's also much more noticeable when it's dirty. I have some rocks and drift wood in there for my java moss (which doesn't seem to like the sand too well but it's slowly starting to grow) but aside from plant roots it's all sand, so any ideas as to what I could use instead of or in conjunction with the sand would be welcome =D --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Jade, > > Just a thought, and I do not know how well this may work, would be to remove > a portion of your sand substrate each water change, clean and bleach it and > then rinse well. You will not be able to do this to all the sand, with your > plantings, but maybe enough of it to make the overall impression a bit > brighter. If this method shows some promise, you may wish to buy more white > sand so that you can remove a larger amount at a time, replace it with more > sand, to keep the overall appearance of your tank the same. > > We should note, however, that with a lighter substrate, you r fish may not > display as well, with their colors appearing a bit washed out. > > The addition of Malaysian trumpet snails, that, I believe, Lenny mentioned, > may not keep your sand whiter, but it may help you keep it cleaner, and will > certainly help to keep it from becoming too compact. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jade > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium > > I do understand that it will not stay white... I would just like something > lighter than the tan-ish color it is now. As far as my substrate cleaning > routine I don't exactly have one... I carefully stir up the sand with my > gravel vac by moving it in slow, small circles, keeping it angled just right > so that the sand slides back to the bottom instead of up the hose. Aside > from that, the plants are honestly doing most of the work for me, my > aquarium has never thrived more with less of my interference in all of the > years I hvae had one. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Jade, > > > > Your white gravel will not stay white either. You did not mention your > > substrate cleaning routine. Do you have one? It is hard to clean sand like > > gravel is cleaned as the sand will tend to go out of the tank with the > water > > if you are not careful. Please explain how you are taking care of your > > substrate so we can offer some ideas to help you improve. > > > > You do need to realize that the pictures you see of tanks with white > > substrates are set up specifically for the photos and/or a limited show > > period. White sand will not remain white in an aquarium, it just seems to > in > > the pictures. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:31 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] A question about the flooring of my aquarium > > > > Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... > > well... life haha. > > > > For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater aquarium. It > > used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of guppies, a few > > platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It is completely > > live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a sand bottom(roughly > 2-3 > > inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec has been moving around and > where > > it's been lol.) > > > > Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got dirty > > pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the aquarium. Could > I, > > in theory, put a small layer of, say, white gravel on top of the sand > > without running into any problems? I know some of my plants would enjoy > the > > foot hold, but my concern would be with the sand not stirring enough to > > release any sort of harmful build ups. Any advice or suggestions would be > > welcomed. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47872	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium

You also don't want to go about removing all your gravel/sand and replacing it as you will have to take EVERYTHING out of the aquarium, fish, water, plants, and then the sand. Then put it all back together again. Also removing so much of your sand/gravel can cause cycling issues if you have a lot of the nitrifying bacteria growing in your sand/gravel. Amber Jade wrote: > > Steve, > Hm, I'm a bit quirky about using bleach on anything that's within a > few feet of my aquarium much less on something to go INSIDE the > aquarium, haha. I will give the snails a try ASAP. Do you have any > suggestions for a lighter substrate other than white...that will stay > relatively bright? I do like the natural look of the sand, but it's > also much more noticeable when it's dirty. I have some rocks and drift > wood in there for my java moss (which doesn't seem to like the sand > too well but it's slowly starting to grow) but aside from plant roots > it's all sand, so any ideas as to what I could use instead of or in > conjunction with the sand would be welcome =D > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Jade, > > > > Just a thought, and I do not know how well this may work, would be > to remove > > a portion of your sand substrate each water change, clean and bleach > it and > > then rinse well. You will not be able to do this to all the sand, > with your > > plantings, but maybe enough of it to make the overall impression a bit > > brighter. If this method shows some promise, you may wish to buy > more white > > sand so that you can remove a larger amount at a time, replace it > with more > > sand, to keep the overall appearance of your tank the same. > > > > We should note, however, that with a lighter substrate, you r fish > may not > > display as well, with their colors appearing a bit washed out. > > > > The addition of Malaysian trumpet snails, that, I believe, Lenny > mentioned, > > may not keep your sand whiter, but it may help you keep it cleaner, > and will > > certainly help to keep it from becoming too compact. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Jade > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:34 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A question about the flooring of my aquarium > > > > I do understand that it will not stay white... I would just like > something > > lighter than the tan-ish color it is now. As far as my substrate > cleaning > > routine I don't exactly have one... I carefully stir up the sand with my > > gravel vac by moving it in slow, small circles, keeping it angled > just right > > so that the sand slides back to the bottom instead of up the hose. Aside > > from that, the plants are honestly doing most of the work for me, my > > aquarium has never thrived more with less of my interference in all > of the > > years I hvae had one. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Jade, > > > > > > Your white gravel will not stay white either. You did not mention your > > > substrate cleaning routine. Do you have one? It is hard to clean > sand like > > > gravel is cleaned as the sand will tend to go out of the tank with the > > water > > > if you are not careful. Please explain how you are taking care of your > > > substrate so we can offer some ideas to help you improve. > > > > > > You do need to realize that the pictures you see of tanks with white > > > substrates are set up specifically for the photos and/or a limited > show > > > period. White sand will not remain white in an aquarium, it just > seems to > > in > > > the pictures. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Jade > > > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:31 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] A question about the flooring of my aquarium > > > > > > Hello again, I'm sorry I haven't been around much but life has been... > > > well... life haha. > > > > > > For those that don't recall, I have a 20gal long freshwater > aquarium. It > > > used to be stocked with guppies but now has a nice mix of guppies, > a few > > > platties, and mollies, with one rubber-nose pleco. It is completely > > > live-planted, with a sponge filtration system and a sand > bottom(roughly > > 2-3 > > > inches deep, depending on how fast my Plec has been moving around and > > where > > > it's been lol.) > > > > > > Now onto my question. The sand in my aquarium as it was white got > dirty > > > pretty quick which reduced the overall brightness of the aquarium. > Could > > I, > > > in theory, put a small layer of, say, white gravel on top of the sand > > > without running into any problems? I know some of my plants would > enjoy > > the > > > foot hold, but my concern would be with the sand not stirring > enough to > > > release any sort of harmful build ups. Any advice or suggestions > would be > > > welcomed. > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47873	From: melindas	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Drift Wood

I want to find some drift wood for my Aquarium and Fire-belly toad tank, and I don't want to go out and buy it. So my question is, Where would be the best place to find some, does it matter the type of wood, and how would I treat it if I went to a lake or a river and brought some home?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47874	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drift Wood

I wrote an article on my blog a while back about "Driftwood Cleaning And Curing" but I also have several other links and references. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/01/driftwood-cleaning-curing-now-why-didn t.html OR http://tinyurl.com/Driftwood-Cleaning-Curing Your best place to find it is along the shorelines, banks and shallows of waterways in your area... preferably the least polluted waterways. It's probably illegal to collect it from the wild but you know what they say about breaking the law... it's only illegal if you get caught. :-O If you're not doing any mass collecting, I doubt that anyone would care. If you don't want to break the law... but I'm like that little devil on your left shoulder saying "Do it... get the driftwood!"... you can listen to the little angel on your right shoulder and buy it and I included a couple of links below to lower cost places of buying driftwood online. The eBayer collects it from their own land so it's legal. If you have your own land with a waterway running through it, you should be able to find some yourself. Oh... that little devil just thought of something else. If you do decide to go scavenging for your own, bring a couple of bags and act like you're picking up litter along the waterway and just throw your wood in the bag like you thought it would be considered litter. Then head home and get rid of the actual trash and then follow the cleaning process mentioned in my article above. Here's some more links from my Favorites folder, that I probably should just add to my article. Some of these may be duplicates of what I already have in the article. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/aquascaping/wood.shtml http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/driftwood.php http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=16+2250&aid=3319 http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/55482-diy-driftwood-aquarium-safe-wood s.html http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/aquascaping.php http://www.tetra-fish.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2268 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5283 Some inexpensive places to buy it... http://www.aquariumdriftwood.com/driftwoo.htm http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18311/cl0/driftwood Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drift Wood I want to find some drift wood for my Aquarium and Fire-belly toad tank, and I don't want to go out and buy it. So my question is, Where would be the best place to find some, does it matter the type of wood, and how would I treat it if I went to a lake or a river and brought some home?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47875	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/18/2010
Subject: Re: Drift Wood

Melinda, Frankly, for the time and effort to find and properly prepare the driftwood, you are better off to buy it at a LFS. To find a piece, look around bodies of water, lakes, ponds, streams, rivers, etc. The best would be hardwood, but it would be hard to identify unless you really know your woods. Once you have found something you think you can work with--and it may be larger than you really need, but you can cut it down to get the part you want, you'll bring it home. Then, if needed, cut it to what you will be using. However, you'll not be able to use it yet. There is no way of knowing what nasties the driftwood may contain. The, there is always the concern of pollutants in the water from which the wood comes. Also, it may release a large amount of tannin into the water when it is first placed in the water. Also, if it was not sunken prior to your bringing it home, you'll want to ensure it is waterlogged prior to placing it in your tank. To remove the nasties, you'll want to give it several treatments with a high concentration of bleach in the water. Remember, the nasties will not all be on the surface of the wood, and you'll want to give the bleach time to soak into the wood. You'll want to change all the water in your container between additions of a fresh bleach solution. If the wood is trying to float during the treatments, you'll need to find a way to hold it underwater during the treatment, else the treatment will not be effective. One you have finished with the bleach, you'll want to keep soaking the wood until it seems to be no longer releasing tannins, i.e. it takes a while for the water to start becoming yellowish, not in the first few days. Even with all this work, you have no guarantees that the wood will work in your tank, and all the nasties have been banished. However, visiting a few LFS's will likely enable you to find a nice piece of wood, suitable for your purposes, and, after a good couple of days of soaking, enable you to place it in your tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Drift Wood I want to find some drift wood for my Aquarium and Fire-belly toad tank, and I don't want to go out and buy it. So my question is, Where would be the best place to find some, does it matter the type of wood, and how would I treat it if I went to a lake or a river and brought some home?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47876	From: melindas	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Drift Wood

Thanks everyone for your help ^^v I think I'm going to go out this weekend to a river and see what I can find then give it a good soak and clean for a week before I use it in my tanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47877	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Drift Wood

If you don't use a rinse agent (aka Jet Dry) with your dishwasher cycle (or haven't in a VERY long time, long enough for any rinse agent to be long since "rinsed" away), you can put the driftwood into the dishwasher to sanitize it (just run it on sanitize mode, or as hot as possible) and pull it out before the drying cycle and add it to a rubbermaid tub full of water to soak (if you put it in hot and already soaked in hot water it will absorb the water in the tub faster), it will also absorb water faster if you can weigh it down (like with a cinder block or something very heavy). Amber melindas wrote: > > Thanks everyone for your help ^^v I think I'm going to go out this > weekend to a river and see what I can find then give it a good soak > and clean for a week before I use it in my tanks. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47878	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Quarantine Tank

Hello everyone; Just removed the last batch of Platy from the Q Tank. I am now waiting for a pair of clown pleco's to get here. That however will be almost 2 weeks from now since the person I am getting them from does not want to give them up until they are older. So my question is; how long can I run the tank with no fish? Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47879	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank

That depends on how dirty the tank was, if you "feed" the tank with fish food at least once a day I think that should keep enough ammonia going in the tank to feed the bacteria. Just remember to feed the empty tank ;) If you do nothing the bacteria will start to die of rather quickly if the tank is fairly clean. Amber Alex Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Just removed the last batch of Platy from the Q Tank. > I am now waiting for a pair of clown pleco's to get here. That however > will > be almost 2 weeks from now since the person I am getting them from > does not > want to give them up until they are older. So my question is; how long > can I > run the tank with no fish? > > Alex > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47880	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank

Last gravel cleaning was last week but this plattys sure pooped a lot - so I'd say its as clean as can be - tank has been running for the last 6 months Thanks AB Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:14:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank That depends on how dirty the tank was, if you "feed" the tank with fish food at least once a day I think that should keep enough ammonia going in the tank to feed the bacteria. Just remember to feed the empty tank ;) If you do nothing the bacteria will start to die of rather quickly if the tank is fairly clean. Amber Alex Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Just removed the last batch of Platy from the Q Tank. > I am now waiting for a pair of clown pleco's to get here. That however > will > be almost 2 weeks from now since the person I am getting them from > does not > want to give them up until they are older. So my question is; how long > can I > run the tank with no fish? > > Alex > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47881	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank

Were you planning on breaking down the Q-tank for the two weeks or keep it running? It's usually best to clean a Q-tank in between uses so the new fish are coming into a reasonably clean and sterile tank. You could move the filter from the Q-tank, presuming it was healthy, to the a running tank with fish and that will keep the filter system cycled. Then when you bring home the new fish, move the filter back to the Q-tank when you add the new fish and the filter will be cycled already and ready to go. If you can't fit the entire filter system on one of your other tanks, then just take the filter cartridge (or media) and add it to one of the reservoirs of a running tank and that will also keep it cycled and then just move the filter cartridge (or media) back into the filter system on the Q-tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank That depends on how dirty the tank was, if you "feed" the tank with fish food at least once a day I think that should keep enough ammonia going in the tank to feed the bacteria. Just remember to feed the empty tank ;) If you do nothing the bacteria will start to die of rather quickly if the tank is fairly clean. Amber Alex Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Just removed the last batch of Platy from the Q Tank. > I am now waiting for a pair of clown pleco's to get here. That however > will be almost 2 weeks from now since the person I am getting them > from does not want to give them up until they are older. So my > question is; how long can I run the tank with no fish? > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47882	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank

I would feed the bacteria with pure ammonia (no fragrance or surfactant), why take a chance? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:25 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank Last gravel cleaning was last week but this plattys sure pooped a lot - so I'd say its as clean as can be - tank has been running for the last 6 months Thanks AB Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:14:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank That depends on how dirty the tank was, if you "feed" the tank with fish food at least once a day I think that should keep enough ammonia going in the tank to feed the bacteria. Just remember to feed the empty tank ;) If you do nothing the bacteria will start to die of rather quickly if the tank is fairly clean. Amber Alex Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Just removed the last batch of Platy from the Q Tank. > I am now waiting for a pair of clown pleco's to get here. That however > will > be almost 2 weeks from now since the person I am getting them from > does not > want to give them up until they are older. So my question is; how long > can I > run the tank with no fish? > > Alex > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47883	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank

For a Q-tank, it's best to not have gravel so that it can be easily cleaned after each use. Were you planning on keeping it running or just using it as a Q-tank or H-tank as needed? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:25 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank Last gravel cleaning was last week but this plattys sure pooped a lot - so I'd say its as clean as can be - tank has been running for the last 6 months Thanks AB Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:14:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank That depends on how dirty the tank was, if you "feed" the tank with fish food at least once a day I think that should keep enough ammonia going in the tank to feed the bacteria. Just remember to feed the empty tank ;) If you do nothing the bacteria will start to die of rather quickly if the tank is fairly clean. Amber Alex Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Just removed the last batch of Platy from the Q Tank. > I am now waiting for a pair of clown pleco's to get here. That however > will be almost 2 weeks from now since the person I am getting them > from does not want to give them up until they are older. So my > question is; how long can I run the tank with no fish? > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47884	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank

Yep. That always works if you want to be sure that you keep the Q-tank fully cycled during the absence of fish. Just add 3-5 drops (depending on size of drop) per gallon to raise the ammonia level up to 5ppm per day. Check the ammonia level to make sure you're not going over 5ppm if you use 5 drops per gallon and adjust your dosing accordingly. You can get plain ammonia at Ace Hardware if you can't find it anywhere else but most smaller hardware stores should carry it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank I would feed the bacteria with pure ammonia (no fragrance or surfactant), why take a chance? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:25 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank Last gravel cleaning was last week but this plattys sure pooped a lot - so I'd say its as clean as can be - tank has been running for the last 6 months Thanks AB Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:14:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank That depends on how dirty the tank was, if you "feed" the tank with fish food at least once a day I think that should keep enough ammonia going in the tank to feed the bacteria. Just remember to feed the empty tank ;) If you do nothing the bacteria will start to die of rather quickly if the tank is fairly clean. Amber Alex Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Just removed the last batch of Platy from the Q Tank. > I am now waiting for a pair of clown pleco's to get here. That however > will be almost 2 weeks from now since the person I am getting them > from does not want to give them up until they are older. So my > question is; how long can I run the tank with no fish? > > Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47885	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank

Rather than the food Amber mentions, I'd just use plain ammonia to keep the cycle going. You'd only need to add a few drops a day, no more than to give you a reading of 5.0 when it is added. Less is OK. But the 5.0 will give you an optimal colony that can handle a full load of fish when they are added. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:25 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank Last gravel cleaning was last week but this plattys sure pooped a lot - so I'd say its as clean as can be - tank has been running for the last 6 months Thanks AB Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:14:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank That depends on how dirty the tank was, if you "feed" the tank with fish food at least once a day I think that should keep enough ammonia going in the tank to feed the bacteria. Just remember to feed the empty tank ;) If you do nothing the bacteria will start to die of rather quickly if the tank is fairly clean. Amber Alex Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Just removed the last batch of Platy from the Q Tank. > I am now waiting for a pair of clown pleco's to get here. That however > will > be almost 2 weeks from now since the person I am getting them from > does not > want to give them up until they are older. So my question is; how long > can I > run the tank with no fish? > > Alex > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47886	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 4/19/2010
Subject: Re: Quarantine Tank

Just need one more use for it as a Q tank once I get the plecos. After that I don't plan on getting any more fish and will store and use as an H tank after Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry� -----Original Message----- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 22:15:28 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank For a Q-tank, it's best to not have gravel so that it can be easily cleaned after each use. Were you planning on keeping it running or just using it as a Q-tank or H-tank as needed? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:25 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank Last gravel cleaning was last week but this plattys sure pooped a lot - so I'd say its as clean as can be - tank has been running for the last 6 months Thanks AB Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:14:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quarantine Tank That depends on how dirty the tank was, if you "feed" the tank with fish food at least once a day I think that should keep enough ammonia going in the tank to feed the bacteria. Just remember to feed the empty tank ;) If you do nothing the bacteria will start to die of rather quickly if the tank is fairly clean. Amber Alex Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > Just removed the last batch of Platy from the Q Tank. > I am now waiting for a pair of clown pleco's to get here. That however > will be almost 2 weeks from now since the person I am getting them > from does not want to give them up until they are older. So my > question is; how long can I run the tank with no fish? > > Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47887	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 4/21/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

Hello again, So I am a bit confused at the moment. I just did some more searching for Clown Plecos and found 2 different scientific names Peckoltia pulcher Panaque maccus Are these the same fish or are they different? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:25:13 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Yes. Baby/Juvi Clown Plecos are only about an inch long. At least that's about how big mine was when I got him/her from my LFS. There are a couple of species of dwarf plecos that are commonly called clown plecos but they all are dwarf plecos with one growing to only around 3" and the other growing only to around 4.5". They won't fight or spar as juvi's but as adults, many plecos will fight or spar for the same cave or hide-out as they mature so make sure you have several spots for each of them to call home. My single, now 3" clown pleco works hard on keeping my 65G goldfish tank as algae free as he can. I had let it grow extra algae between the time I rehomed an adopted common pleco and the time I got him, to make sure I had enough algae, as not having enough algae when you first get an algae eating fish can lead to starvation... so make sure you have enough algae before you get two of them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Lenny, Will I be able to put 2 Clown Pleco's in the 10g q tank? They will be all by themselves as the Platy's will have been moved by the time I get the pleco. Thanks again, Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually much smaller than BN's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are pretty good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get pretty big, around 10" to 11". http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47888	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

They are completely different species as far as we know. The Pleco/Catfish world is even worse than the Cichlid world for having unnamed fish or bad scientific names that are constantly being renamed. I mentioned in the first paragraph in my previous post that there are at least a couple of dwarf plecos that share the common name, Clown Pleco, but fortunately, both of them are "dwarf" plecos and stay pretty small, under 4.5" for one and only around 3" for the other. As juvi's they are even harder to identify so you may not know exactly what you have until after it starts to mature. If you can't tell for yourself, you can always start a thread in the PlecoFanatics.com "What Kind Of Pleco Do I Have?" forum. I had to do that back in 2005 with a pleco that I adopted and couldn't tell what it was and it took dozens of *experts* nearly six months to tell what I have and they couldn't really tell until it grew more and started to show it's true colors/markings. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:04 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello again, So I am a bit confused at the moment. I just did some more searching for Clown Plecos and found 2 different scientific names Peckoltia pulcher Panaque maccus Are these the same fish or are they different? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: GoldLenny@... Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:25:13 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Yes. Baby/Juvi Clown Plecos are only about an inch long. At least that's about how big mine was when I got him/her from my LFS. There are a couple of species of dwarf plecos that are commonly called clown plecos but they all are dwarf plecos with one growing to only around 3" and the other growing only to around 4.5". They won't fight or spar as juvi's but as adults, many plecos will fight or spar for the same cave or hide-out as they mature so make sure you have several spots for each of them to call home. My single, now 3" clown pleco works hard on keeping my 65G goldfish tank as algae free as he can. I had let it grow extra algae between the time I rehomed an adopted common pleco and the time I got him, to make sure I had enough algae, as not having enough algae when you first get an algae eating fish can lead to starvation... so make sure you have enough algae before you get two of them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Lenny, Will I be able to put 2 Clown Pleco's in the 10g q tank? They will be all by themselves as the Platy's will have been moved by the time I get the pleco. Thanks again, Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually much smaller than BN's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are pretty good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get pretty big, around 10" to 11". http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47889	From: jalee	Date: 4/21/2010
Subject: stringy poop

I have fish with trailing poop it never used to happen. Any ideas? It starts dark then lightens as it hangs then breaks off after it hangs there like forever. Thanks in advance for any help! JaLee

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47890	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/21/2010
Subject: Re: stringy poop

What kind of fish? Any obvious change in diet? Also, answer as much of the below information that you have. Sometimes, the devil is in the details. This is the "Sick Fish Questionnaire" from my blog. Sick Fish Questionnaire http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html We understand that if you are having a problem, especially one resulting is sick fish, you want help as soon as possible. In order to give you answers as quickly as we can, we need you to provide answers to as many of the questions below as possible, especially test readings. It would be best if you cut and paste this entire set of questions into your first post, in one of the forums listed on the right of this page, to be sure you answer each inquiry. Test readings (in numbers) for: Ammonia: Nitrite: Nitrate: pH: GH: KH: Temperature: Also post your tap water baseline numbers if known. If not known, now would be a good time to start finding out what they are. See my article on this page http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml Tank size: Tank inhabitants (number and type of fish or other aquatic life): Water change amount and when the last one was done: Filter maintenance and what exactly did you do: How long the tank has been set up: Water or filter additives or pH adjusters used: Recent (within 2 weeks) changes or additions to the tank: Full description of the problem you have been having, including any odd behavior of the inhabitants or appearance of the tank or inhabitants.some common examples are: Fish behavior- separating from school hiding breathing rapidly hanging at surface sitting on bottom having difficulty swimming scraping body on ornaments/plants/gravel Fish appearance- pale or different in color (describe) raised spots/tufts of cottony material/cloudy patches on skin fins fraying chunks missing from fins open sores bent spine Tank appearance- whitish cloudy water greenish cloudy water excessive algae (specify color) We'll try to help as best we can. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jalee Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 10:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] stringy poop I have fish with trailing poop it never used to happen. Any ideas? It starts dark then lightens as it hangs then breaks off after it hangs there like forever. Thanks in advance for any help! JaLee

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47891	From: melindas	Date: 4/22/2010
Subject: Why do I still have Ich?!

Its been about 3 weeks and Ich is still in my tank! Last weekend I bought another heater and the tank is 85 Deg. There is salt in the water and there is Meds, and SILL I have Ich going from one fish to another.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47892	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/22/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!

OK. Now that you have it up to 85F, that shortens the life cycle of the Ich parasite. Remind us what kinds of medication you currently have in the tank and how much salt per gallon? You probably shouldn't do both of these since both can be stressful on the fish and combining them could make the fish even weaker. I don't think anyone advised you to use both. Most of us were trying to get you to just use salt as we know that to be a tried and true treatment but I remember you tried one medication first and then switched to another medication but I do not recall the ingredients in either except maybe they both had Malachite Green. Remind us if this is correct. Also let us know exactly how much salt you have in the tank... by teaspoons or tablespoons per gallon, 5G, 10G or whatever dosage you used. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do I still have Ich?! Its been about 3 weeks and Ich is still in my tank! Last weekend I bought another heater and the tank is 85 Deg. There is salt in the water and there is Meds, and SILL I have Ich going from one fish to another.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47893	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!

Please also remember that sometimes, it's just like with humans.  When your Doctor does have you on meds but says, "It has to run its course.   How long it took you to finally go to the Doctor, how long until you actually started taking the meds; these are all recovery factors to be taken into account.   Keep a close eye on the temps, watch your salt dosage and have patience, all will work itself out.  The most important thing here is the simplest.  Do not do or change ANYTHING in the tank until ALL fish are clear and doing well or you may have a relaps.   Bill --- On Fri, 4/23/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Why do I still have Ich?! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 23, 2010, 1:23 AM OK.  Now that you have it up to 85F, that shortens the life cycle of the Ich parasite.  Remind us what kinds of medication you currently have in the tank and how much salt per gallon?  You probably shouldn't do both of these since both can be stressful on the fish and combining them could make the fish even weaker.  I don't think anyone advised you to use both.  Most of us were trying to get you to just use salt as we know that to be a tried and true treatment but I remember you tried one medication first and then switched to another medication but I do not recall the ingredients in either except maybe they both had Malachite Green.  Remind us if this is correct.  Also let us know exactly how much salt you have in the tank... by teaspoons or tablespoons per gallon, 5G, 10G or whatever dosage you used. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do I still have Ich?! Its been about 3 weeks and Ich is still in my tank! Last weekend I bought another heater and the tank is 85 Deg. There is salt in the water and there is Meds, and SILL I have Ich going from one fish to another. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47894	From: Noura	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: TUMOR

What is this "tumor" on my Guppy's tail? It's been there for 3 or 4 weeks, the medications didn't change anything. It's only changing shape once in a while. Is it safe to put the fish back into the Guppy tank? (It also homes corydoras_aneus and one Betta ? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list The photos should appear as soon as approved. Thanks Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47895	From: melindas	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!

I had Ick Cure by jungle but I ran out so I don't have anymore meds left. I have about 1 tsp per 3 gallons of water and I have a 30gal tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47896	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR

I can't seem to spot anything wrong with your guppy in the photo's. I know fish are not easy to photograph though, LOL. Perhaps someone else can see what you're talking about on your guppy. What medications were you using with her, and was she on medication for the 3-4 weeks? Amber Noura wrote: > > > What is this "tumor" on my Guppy's tail? > It's been there for 3 or 4 weeks, the medications didn't change > anything. It's only changing shape once in a while. Is it safe to put > the fish back into the Guppy tank? (It also homes corydoras_aneus and > one Betta ? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list> > > The photos should appear as soon as approved. > > Thanks > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47897	From: K Boyle	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!

On Apr 23, 2010, melindas <melindaspicer@...> wrote: Its been about 3 weeks and Ich is still in my tank! Last weekend I bought another heater and the tank is 85 Deg. There is salt in the water and there is Meds, and SILL I have Ich going from one fish to another.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47898	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!

OK. Jungle doesn't have a product called "Ick Cure" from what I can see. From their website, it looks like they have products called Ick Clear Tank Buddies, Ick Guard and Ick Guard II. http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/product.browse.asp?cat=Aquarium&subcat=all I looked at a few of their pages for details on their products but they do not list the ingredients. SHAME ON JUNGLE!!!! I could have looked elsewhere but that is probably immaterial at this point. Regardless of the ingredients, did you run fresh carbon after finishing the Jungle product treatment and did you do any PWC's (partial water changes)??? If you did, then you need to raise the salt level to at least 1 teaspoon per gallon. You already have 1/3 teaspoon per gallon based on "1 tsp per 3 gallons" provided in your reply. If the fish are doing OK with that level of salt (1 teaspoon per gallon), then raise the level by adding another teaspoon per gallon. You might even be able to raise it another teaspoon per gallon, for a total of 3 teaspoons per gallon (equal to one tablespoon per gallon), depending on how the fish tolerate the higher salt levels. You should increase the aeration of the tank by adding a bubbler or increasing surface agitation using your filter's returning water supply. Salt should be added slowly over the course of 24-48 hours or so (always dissolve in a small container of tank water first). Keep a close eye on your fish and perform an immediate PWC if they show any additional signs of stress (beyond what the Ich is already causing). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 7:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Why do I still have Ich?! I had Ick Cure by jungle but I ran out so I don't have anymore meds left. I have about 1 tsp per 3 gallons of water and I have a 30gal tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47899	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR

I just looked at the four pictures and the only thing I see that *might* be the "tumor" is on the top of the tail fin and it's the orange/red area that is blown up a little... maybe a 1/8" to 1/4" bulb? Is that the spot? The pic titled "Guppy 1" seems to show it the best for me... if this is the spot of the "tumor". If that isn't the spot, then I don't see anything else either. I do not know of any fish medications that will treat tumors. In humans, they use chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy to shrink tumors but those aren't really options for our fish at this stage in veterinary medicine. Besides being a possible tumor, it can also just as likely be a cyst and I think cysts are probably even more common than tumors. If the cyst isn't bothering the fish, most folks just leave them alone but if the cyst is in an area of the fish, like the thoracic region, where it might be pressing on other organs, then folks with larger fish have successfully aspirated the cyst. Here is an article on a goldfish forum which shows a veterinarian procedure step-by-step for doing this. Some fish keepers have done this themselves. The first three links are about a cyst. The next two links are about a tumor with the last link being a PDF file. There use to be photos in each of these threads but they moved the forums to a new forum site or software and they seem to have lost the proper links to the photos but the third link seems to have the photos working. The third link is a summary article of the first two forum threads. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2835 http://thegab.org/Veterinary-Procedures/wendyloves-renal-cysts.html (has photos of cyst procedure to go with the info in the forum threads) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2822 http://thegab.org/Articles/JanNewsletter2006.pdf (has photos in this document about tumor) All this said, if the "tumor" or cyst isn't bothering your fish, I wouldn't worry about it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I can't seem to spot anything wrong with your guppy in the photo's. I know fish are not easy to photograph though, LOL. Perhaps someone else can see what you're talking about on your guppy. What medications were you using with her, and was she on medication for the 3-4 weeks? Amber Noura wrote: > > > What is this "tumor" on my Guppy's tail? > It's been there for 3 or 4 weeks, the medications didn't change > anything. It's only changing shape once in a while. Is it safe to put > the fish back into the Guppy tank? (It also homes corydoras_aneus and > one Betta ? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/ > list> > > The photos should appear as soon as approved. > > Thanks > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47900	From: Kevin E Boyle	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: Why do I still have Ich?!

i have found quinine sulfate works well on stubborn ich cases, it is reputedly the only effective cure for a strain of super ich which is supposed to be making the rounds, larger pet stores should carry it. you can also buy it from http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/about_us.html, they sell crypto pro which is the same chemical but packaged for hobbyists. i had to use it in a tank whcih had a school of s multipunctatus (no formalin/malachite green) and it worked really well ><(((*> ><)))*> ><(((*> Give a man a fish, he'll eat it and fall asleep. Teach a man to fish and he'll endanger an entire species. ----- Original Message ----- From: melindas MARKETPLACE Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Welcome to Mom Connection! Share stories, news and more with moms like you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 09:02 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Why do I still have Ich?! Its been about 3 weeks and Ich is still in my tank! Last weekend I bought another heater and the tank is 85 Deg. There is salt in the water and there is Meds, and SILL I have Ich going from one fish to another. Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 4 Visit Your Group Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47901	From: Noura	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR

The orange/red bulb is in deed what I'm concerned about. It could be a cyst, actually it seems that they are multiple cysts close to eachothers, all in the base of the tail, the biggest one, which appears in the photo, especially the photo taken from above, is about 3 mm in diameter on one side, and on the other side of the tail it's like an oval shape about 4 mm long. The tail's fin itself is shredded in half horizontally due to the cyst's position. the smaller cysts on both sides about about 1 mm. I think the cyst is making it harder for the fish to swim, imagine a 2 pound chain attached to your foot, and you have to walk with it! Well it's not the same in water, but you can see the connection here. I medicated for external diseases, two doses 3 days apart, using a medication that worked very well before on wounds and fungi. But nothing changed. She seemed a little weak on the early stages, and harassed by her mates, but now she's better, just moving heavily, somewhat. She 's still isolated however. I was wondering if this condition could be contagious, I need her hospital tank for guppy fry, so she has to go back to her Guppies tank, unless this could be contagious. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I just looked at the four pictures and the only thing I see that *might* be the "tumor" is on the top of the tail fin and it's the orange/red area that is blown up a little... maybe a 1/8" to 1/4" bulb? Is that the spot? The pic titled "Guppy 1" seems to show it the best for me... if this is the spot of the "tumor". If that isn't the spot, then I don't see anything else either. I do not know of any fish medications that will treat tumors. In humans, they use chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy to shrink tumors but those aren't really options for our fish at this stage in veterinary medicine. Besides being a possible tumor, it can also just as likely be a cyst and I think cysts are probably even more common than tumors. If the cyst isn't bothering the fish, most folks just leave them alone but if the cyst is in an area of the fish, like the thoracic region, where it might be pressing on other organs, then folks with larger fish have successfully aspirated the cyst. Here is an article on a goldfish forum which shows a veterinarian procedure step-by-step for doing this. Some fish keepers have done this themselves. The first three links are about a cyst. The next two links are about a tumor with the last link being a PDF file. There use to be photos in each of these threads but they moved the forums to a new forum site or software and they seem to have lost the proper links to the photos but the third link seems to have the photos working. The third link is a summary article of the first two forum threads. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2835 http://thegab.org/Veterinary-Procedures/wendyloves-renal-cysts.html (has photos of cyst procedure to go with the info in the forum threads) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2822 http://thegab.org/Articles/JanNewsletter2006.pdf (has photos in this document about tumor) All this said, if the "tumor" or cyst isn't bothering your fish, I wouldn't worry about it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I can't seem to spot anything wrong with your guppy in the photo's. I know fish are not easy to photograph though, LOL. Perhaps someone else can see what you're talking about on your guppy. What medications were you using with her, and was she on medication for the 3-4 weeks? Amber Noura wrote: > > > What is this "tumor" on my Guppy's tail? > It's been there for 3 or 4 weeks, the medications didn't change > anything. It's only changing shape once in a while. Is it safe to put > the fish back into the Guppy tank? (It also homes corydoras_aneus and > one Betta ? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/ > list> > > The photos should appear as soon as approved. > > Thanks > Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47902	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR

A "2 pound chain attached to your foot"? I had a 135 pound chain for about 10 years but I finally divorced her. LOL OK... back to the fish... Is the bulb clear or does it look like there is a mass supplied by blood vessels growing inside of the bulb? If it's clear, in all likelihood, it's just a cyst. If it has a mass growing inside the bulb, then it's most likely a tumor. Well, if it's a cyst and you want to do something about it, since the cyst is not in a critical area next to other critical organs, you could aspirate the cyst and then see if a local veterinarian or local university biology department could examine the extracted fluid to tell you if it's something of major concern or not. I would arrange with them ahead of time and maybe they might be willing to do the aspiration for you... possibly at no cost if it's a university biology department as they could use it as a teaching experience for their pre-vet or veterinarian students. Cysts and tumors are not usually contagious... although some parasites will leave a cyst behind but they are usually much smaller than what you are seeing... but it's possible a parasitic cyst did cause your issue. I think you just have an atypical cyst which is more of an anomaly... if it's clear in color. If it was something smaller, it might be something to be concerned about, as far as it being contagious, but I don't think the various Koi Herpes Virus morphs have afflicted guppies. KHV does show up as smaller waxy looking growths or blisters on fins and other areas of Koi and Goldfish... and possibly other fish but those are the only two I'm familiar with right now. I compare KHV to the types of blisters a human might get on their lips if they get fever blisters or chapped lips and that causes their Herpes Simplex 1 to flare up. The Herpes Virus kind of lives on nerve endings so when the nerve endings get irritated, the Herpes Virus will be more likely to flare up. (Note that HS-1 is not the same as genital herpes, HS-2, although there can be some connection between the two.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR The orange/red bulb is in deed what I'm concerned about. It could be a cyst, actually it seems that they are multiple cysts close to eachothers, all in the base of the tail, the biggest one, which appears in the photo, especially the photo taken from above, is about 3 mm in diameter on one side, and on the other side of the tail it's like an oval shape about 4 mm long. The tail's fin itself is shredded in half horizontally due to the cyst's position. the smaller cysts on both sides about about 1 mm. I think the cyst is making it harder for the fish to swim, imagine a 2 pound chain attached to your foot, and you have to walk with it! Well it's not the same in water, but you can see the connection here. I medicated for external diseases, two doses 3 days apart, using a medication that worked very well before on wounds and fungi. But nothing changed. She seemed a little weak on the early stages, and harassed by her mates, but now she's better, just moving heavily, somewhat. She 's still isolated however. I was wondering if this condition could be contagious, I need her hospital tank for guppy fry, so she has to go back to her Guppies tank, unless this could be contagious. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I just looked at the four pictures and the only thing I see that *might* be the "tumor" is on the top of the tail fin and it's the orange/red area that is blown up a little... maybe a 1/8" to 1/4" bulb? Is that the spot? The pic titled "Guppy 1" seems to show it the best for me... if this is the spot of the "tumor". If that isn't the spot, then I don't see anything else either. I do not know of any fish medications that will treat tumors. In humans, they use chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy to shrink tumors but those aren't really options for our fish at this stage in veterinary medicine. Besides being a possible tumor, it can also just as likely be a cyst and I think cysts are probably even more common than tumors. If the cyst isn't bothering the fish, most folks just leave them alone but if the cyst is in an area of the fish, like the thoracic region, where it might be pressing on other organs, then folks with larger fish have successfully aspirated the cyst. Here is an article on a goldfish forum which shows a veterinarian procedure step-by-step for doing this. Some fish keepers have done this themselves. The first three links are about a cyst. The next two links are about a tumor with the last link being a PDF file. There use to be photos in each of these threads but they moved the forums to a new forum site or software and they seem to have lost the proper links to the photos but the third link seems to have the photos working. The third link is a summary article of the first two forum threads. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2835 http://thegab.org/Veterinary-Procedures/wendyloves-renal-cysts.html (has photos of cyst procedure to go with the info in the forum threads) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2822 http://thegab.org/Articles/JanNewsletter2006.pdf (has photos in this document about tumor) All this said, if the "tumor" or cyst isn't bothering your fish, I wouldn't worry about it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I can't seem to spot anything wrong with your guppy in the photo's. I know fish are not easy to photograph though, LOL. Perhaps someone else can see what you're talking about on your guppy. What medications were you using with her, and was she on medication for the 3-4 weeks? Amber Noura wrote: > > > What is this "tumor" on my Guppy's tail? > It's been there for 3 or 4 weeks, the medications didn't change > anything. It's only changing shape once in a while. Is it safe to put > the fish back into the Guppy tank? (It also homes corydoras_aneus and > one Betta ? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/ > list> > > The photos should appear as soon as approved. > > Thanks > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47903	From: Noura	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR

It's not a clear bulb at all. I believe there are blood vessels running densely inside that "cluster" of bulbs. I held the fish in my hand, and pressed the bulb gently, it felt rubbery but kind of soft, it didn't leak or burst, but I didn't press hard either. So it seems it's a tumor. It's not a big concern for me if it's not contagious, but if it's best for the fish to have the tumor removed, then I can try to do it. Asking for professional help is not possible, I'll have to do it myself if provided with clear guidance. If the fish's chances of living are greater without doing the "surgery" and its consequences, such as secondary bacterial infection or massive bleeding, then I'll leave her alone. BTW, this fish was born in my tanks, and I believe that she had just started giving birth to her own fry before that tumor happened. These are additional reasons to take good care of her, and make the extra effort to keep her comfortable. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 1:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR A "2 pound chain attached to your foot"? I had a 135 pound chain for about 10 years but I finally divorced her. LOL OK... back to the fish... Is the bulb clear or does it look like there is a mass supplied by blood vessels growing inside of the bulb? If it's clear, in all likelihood, it's just a cyst. If it has a mass growing inside the bulb, then it's most likely a tumor. Well, if it's a cyst and you want to do something about it, since the cyst is not in a critical area next to other critical organs, you could aspirate the cyst and then see if a local veterinarian or local university biology department could examine the extracted fluid to tell you if it's something of major concern or not. I would arrange with them ahead of time and maybe they might be willing to do the aspiration for you... possibly at no cost if it's a university biology department as they could use it as a teaching experience for their pre-vet or veterinarian students. Cysts and tumors are not usually contagious... although some parasites will leave a cyst behind but they are usually much smaller than what you are seeing... but it's possible a parasitic cyst did cause your issue. I think you just have an atypical cyst which is more of an anomaly... if it's clear in color. If it was something smaller, it might be something to be concerned about, as far as it being contagious, but I don't think the various Koi Herpes Virus morphs have afflicted guppies. KHV does show up as smaller waxy looking growths or blisters on fins and other areas of Koi and Goldfish... and possibly other fish but those are the only two I'm familiar with right now. I compare KHV to the types of blisters a human might get on their lips if they get fever blisters or chapped lips and that causes their Herpes Simplex 1 to flare up. The Herpes Virus kind of lives on nerve endings so when the nerve endings get irritated, the Herpes Virus will be more likely to flare up. (Note that HS-1 is not the same as genital herpes, HS-2, although there can be some connection between the two.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR The orange/red bulb is in deed what I'm concerned about. It could be a cyst, actually it seems that they are multiple cysts close to eachothers, all in the base of the tail, the biggest one, which appears in the photo, especially the photo taken from above, is about 3 mm in diameter on one side, and on the other side of the tail it's like an oval shape about 4 mm long. The tail's fin itself is shredded in half horizontally due to the cyst's position. the smaller cysts on both sides about about 1 mm. I think the cyst is making it harder for the fish to swim, imagine a 2 pound chain attached to your foot, and you have to walk with it! Well it's not the same in water, but you can see the connection here. I medicated for external diseases, two doses 3 days apart, using a medication that worked very well before on wounds and fungi. But nothing changed. She seemed a little weak on the early stages, and harassed by her mates, but now she's better, just moving heavily, somewhat. She 's still isolated however. I was wondering if this condition could be contagious, I need her hospital tank for guppy fry, so she has to go back to her Guppies tank, unless this could be contagious. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I just looked at the four pictures and the only thing I see that *might* be the "tumor" is on the top of the tail fin and it's the orange/red area that is blown up a little... maybe a 1/8" to 1/4" bulb? Is that the spot? The pic titled "Guppy 1" seems to show it the best for me... if this is the spot of the "tumor". If that isn't the spot, then I don't see anything else either. I do not know of any fish medications that will treat tumors. In humans, they use chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy to shrink tumors but those aren't really options for our fish at this stage in veterinary medicine. Besides being a possible tumor, it can also just as likely be a cyst and I think cysts are probably even more common than tumors. If the cyst isn't bothering the fish, most folks just leave them alone but if the cyst is in an area of the fish, like the thoracic region, where it might be pressing on other organs, then folks with larger fish have successfully aspirated the cyst. Here is an article on a goldfish forum which shows a veterinarian procedure step-by-step for doing this. Some fish keepers have done this themselves. The first three links are about a cyst. The next two links are about a tumor with the last link being a PDF file. There use to be photos in each of these threads but they moved the forums to a new forum site or software and they seem to have lost the proper links to the photos but the third link seems to have the photos working. The third link is a summary article of the first two forum threads. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2835 http://thegab.org/Veterinary-Procedures/wendyloves-renal-cysts.html (has photos of cyst procedure to go with the info in the forum threads) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2822 http://thegab.org/Articles/JanNewsletter2006.pdf (has photos in this document about tumor) All this said, if the "tumor" or cyst isn't bothering your fish, I wouldn't worry about it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I can't seem to spot anything wrong with your guppy in the photo's. I know fish are not easy to photograph though, LOL. Perhaps someone else can see what you're talking about on your guppy. What medications were you using with her, and was she on medication for the 3-4 weeks? Amber Noura wrote: > > > What is this "tumor" on my Guppy's tail? > It's been there for 3 or 4 weeks, the medications didn't change > anything. It's only changing shape once in a while. Is it safe to put > the fish back into the Guppy tank? (It also homes corydoras_aneus and > one Betta ? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/ > list> > > The photos should appear as soon as approved. > > Thanks > Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47904	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/23/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR

I couldn't begin to help you with a tumor. Because of the mass and blood vessels, there is a LOT more risk involved. I would suspect the fish has a greater chance of survival if you do nothing, than if you try to do this yourself. While aspirating a cyst has some risks, it's usually just post injection infection that you have to worry about. Removing a tumor could result in the fish bleeding out since you would be cutting one or more blood vessels that connect to the tumor and I'm not sure you would have the proper tools or knowledge on what to do about this possibility. If it were me, I would leave the fish alone and pray that it's own immune system kicks in and takes care of the tumor since you indicate professional help is not an option. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 6:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR It's not a clear bulb at all. I believe there are blood vessels running densely inside that "cluster" of bulbs. I held the fish in my hand, and pressed the bulb gently, it felt rubbery but kind of soft, it didn't leak or burst, but I didn't press hard either. So it seems it's a tumor. It's not a big concern for me if it's not contagious, but if it's best for the fish to have the tumor removed, then I can try to do it. Asking for professional help is not possible, I'll have to do it myself if provided with clear guidance. If the fish's chances of living are greater without doing the "surgery" and its consequences, such as secondary bacterial infection or massive bleeding, then I'll leave her alone. BTW, this fish was born in my tanks, and I believe that she had just started giving birth to her own fry before that tumor happened. These are additional reasons to take good care of her, and make the extra effort to keep her comfortable. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 1:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR A "2 pound chain attached to your foot"? I had a 135 pound chain for about 10 years but I finally divorced her. LOL OK... back to the fish... Is the bulb clear or does it look like there is a mass supplied by blood vessels growing inside of the bulb? If it's clear, in all likelihood, it's just a cyst. If it has a mass growing inside the bulb, then it's most likely a tumor. Well, if it's a cyst and you want to do something about it, since the cyst is not in a critical area next to other critical organs, you could aspirate the cyst and then see if a local veterinarian or local university biology department could examine the extracted fluid to tell you if it's something of major concern or not. I would arrange with them ahead of time and maybe they might be willing to do the aspiration for you... possibly at no cost if it's a university biology department as they could use it as a teaching experience for their pre-vet or veterinarian students. Cysts and tumors are not usually contagious... although some parasites will leave a cyst behind but they are usually much smaller than what you are seeing... but it's possible a parasitic cyst did cause your issue. I think you just have an atypical cyst which is more of an anomaly... if it's clear in color. If it was something smaller, it might be something to be concerned about, as far as it being contagious, but I don't think the various Koi Herpes Virus morphs have afflicted guppies. KHV does show up as smaller waxy looking growths or blisters on fins and other areas of Koi and Goldfish... and possibly other fish but those are the only two I'm familiar with right now. I compare KHV to the types of blisters a human might get on their lips if they get fever blisters or chapped lips and that causes their Herpes Simplex 1 to flare up. The Herpes Virus kind of lives on nerve endings so when the nerve endings get irritated, the Herpes Virus will be more likely to flare up. (Note that HS-1 is not the same as genital herpes, HS-2, although there can be some connection between the two.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR The orange/red bulb is in deed what I'm concerned about. It could be a cyst, actually it seems that they are multiple cysts close to eachothers, all in the base of the tail, the biggest one, which appears in the photo, especially the photo taken from above, is about 3 mm in diameter on one side, and on the other side of the tail it's like an oval shape about 4 mm long. The tail's fin itself is shredded in half horizontally due to the cyst's position. the smaller cysts on both sides about about 1 mm. I think the cyst is making it harder for the fish to swim, imagine a 2 pound chain attached to your foot, and you have to walk with it! Well it's not the same in water, but you can see the connection here. I medicated for external diseases, two doses 3 days apart, using a medication that worked very well before on wounds and fungi. But nothing changed. She seemed a little weak on the early stages, and harassed by her mates, but now she's better, just moving heavily, somewhat. She 's still isolated however. I was wondering if this condition could be contagious, I need her hospital tank for guppy fry, so she has to go back to her Guppies tank, unless this could be contagious. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I just looked at the four pictures and the only thing I see that *might* be the "tumor" is on the top of the tail fin and it's the orange/red area that is blown up a little... maybe a 1/8" to 1/4" bulb? Is that the spot? The pic titled "Guppy 1" seems to show it the best for me... if this is the spot of the "tumor". If that isn't the spot, then I don't see anything else either. I do not know of any fish medications that will treat tumors. In humans, they use chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy to shrink tumors but those aren't really options for our fish at this stage in veterinary medicine. Besides being a possible tumor, it can also just as likely be a cyst and I think cysts are probably even more common than tumors. If the cyst isn't bothering the fish, most folks just leave them alone but if the cyst is in an area of the fish, like the thoracic region, where it might be pressing on other organs, then folks with larger fish have successfully aspirated the cyst. Here is an article on a goldfish forum which shows a veterinarian procedure step-by-step for doing this. Some fish keepers have done this themselves. The first three links are about a cyst. The next two links are about a tumor with the last link being a PDF file. There use to be photos in each of these threads but they moved the forums to a new forum site or software and they seem to have lost the proper links to the photos but the third link seems to have the photos working. The third link is a summary article of the first two forum threads. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2835 http://thegab.org/Veterinary-Procedures/wendyloves-renal-cysts.html (has photos of cyst procedure to go with the info in the forum threads) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2822 http://thegab.org/Articles/JanNewsletter2006.pdf (has photos in this document about tumor) All this said, if the "tumor" or cyst isn't bothering your fish, I wouldn't worry about it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I can't seem to spot anything wrong with your guppy in the photo's. I know fish are not easy to photograph though, LOL. Perhaps someone else can see what you're talking about on your guppy. What medications were you using with her, and was she on medication for the 3-4 weeks? Amber Noura wrote: > > > What is this "tumor" on my Guppy's tail? > It's been there for 3 or 4 weeks, the medications didn't change > anything. It's only changing shape once in a while. Is it safe to put > the fish back into the Guppy tank? (It also homes corydoras_aneus and > one Betta ? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/ > list> > > The photos should appear as soon as approved. > > Thanks > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47905	From: Noura	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR

Then the vote is for "doing nothing"! She's back in the Guppy tank now, and the males already started chasing her leaving all the other pretty and bigger females behind! She's a "new commer" afterall! MALES! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I couldn't begin to help you with a tumor. Because of the mass and blood vessels, there is a LOT more risk involved. I would suspect the fish has a greater chance of survival if you do nothing, than if you try to do this yourself. While aspirating a cyst has some risks, it's usually just post injection infection that you have to worry about. Removing a tumor could result in the fish bleeding out since you would be cutting one or more blood vessels that connect to the tumor and I'm not sure you would have the proper tools or knowledge on what to do about this possibility. If it were me, I would leave the fish alone and pray that it's own immune system kicks in and takes care of the tumor since you indicate professional help is not an option. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 6:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR It's not a clear bulb at all. I believe there are blood vessels running densely inside that "cluster" of bulbs. I held the fish in my hand, and pressed the bulb gently, it felt rubbery but kind of soft, it didn't leak or burst, but I didn't press hard either. So it seems it's a tumor. It's not a big concern for me if it's not contagious, but if it's best for the fish to have the tumor removed, then I can try to do it. Asking for professional help is not possible, I'll have to do it myself if provided with clear guidance. If the fish's chances of living are greater without doing the "surgery" and its consequences, such as secondary bacterial infection or massive bleeding, then I'll leave her alone. BTW, this fish was born in my tanks, and I believe that she had just started giving birth to her own fry before that tumor happened. These are additional reasons to take good care of her, and make the extra effort to keep her comfortable. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 1:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR A "2 pound chain attached to your foot"? I had a 135 pound chain for about 10 years but I finally divorced her. LOL OK... back to the fish... Is the bulb clear or does it look like there is a mass supplied by blood vessels growing inside of the bulb? If it's clear, in all likelihood, it's just a cyst. If it has a mass growing inside the bulb, then it's most likely a tumor. Well, if it's a cyst and you want to do something about it, since the cyst is not in a critical area next to other critical organs, you could aspirate the cyst and then see if a local veterinarian or local university biology department could examine the extracted fluid to tell you if it's something of major concern or not. I would arrange with them ahead of time and maybe they might be willing to do the aspiration for you... possibly at no cost if it's a university biology department as they could use it as a teaching experience for their pre-vet or veterinarian students. Cysts and tumors are not usually contagious... although some parasites will leave a cyst behind but they are usually much smaller than what you are seeing... but it's possible a parasitic cyst did cause your issue. I think you just have an atypical cyst which is more of an anomaly... if it's clear in color. If it was something smaller, it might be something to be concerned about, as far as it being contagious, but I don't think the various Koi Herpes Virus morphs have afflicted guppies. KHV does show up as smaller waxy looking growths or blisters on fins and other areas of Koi and Goldfish... and possibly other fish but those are the only two I'm familiar with right now. I compare KHV to the types of blisters a human might get on their lips if they get fever blisters or chapped lips and that causes their Herpes Simplex 1 to flare up. The Herpes Virus kind of lives on nerve endings so when the nerve endings get irritated, the Herpes Virus will be more likely to flare up. (Note that HS-1 is not the same as genital herpes, HS-2, although there can be some connection between the two.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR The orange/red bulb is in deed what I'm concerned about. It could be a cyst, actually it seems that they are multiple cysts close to eachothers, all in the base of the tail, the biggest one, which appears in the photo, especially the photo taken from above, is about 3 mm in diameter on one side, and on the other side of the tail it's like an oval shape about 4 mm long. The tail's fin itself is shredded in half horizontally due to the cyst's position. the smaller cysts on both sides about about 1 mm. I think the cyst is making it harder for the fish to swim, imagine a 2 pound chain attached to your foot, and you have to walk with it! Well it's not the same in water, but you can see the connection here. I medicated for external diseases, two doses 3 days apart, using a medication that worked very well before on wounds and fungi. But nothing changed. She seemed a little weak on the early stages, and harassed by her mates, but now she's better, just moving heavily, somewhat. She 's still isolated however. I was wondering if this condition could be contagious, I need her hospital tank for guppy fry, so she has to go back to her Guppies tank, unless this could be contagious. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I just looked at the four pictures and the only thing I see that *might* be the "tumor" is on the top of the tail fin and it's the orange/red area that is blown up a little... maybe a 1/8" to 1/4" bulb? Is that the spot? The pic titled "Guppy 1" seems to show it the best for me... if this is the spot of the "tumor". If that isn't the spot, then I don't see anything else either. I do not know of any fish medications that will treat tumors. In humans, they use chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy to shrink tumors but those aren't really options for our fish at this stage in veterinary medicine. Besides being a possible tumor, it can also just as likely be a cyst and I think cysts are probably even more common than tumors. If the cyst isn't bothering the fish, most folks just leave them alone but if the cyst is in an area of the fish, like the thoracic region, where it might be pressing on other organs, then folks with larger fish have successfully aspirated the cyst. Here is an article on a goldfish forum which shows a veterinarian procedure step-by-step for doing this. Some fish keepers have done this themselves. The first three links are about a cyst. The next two links are about a tumor with the last link being a PDF file. There use to be photos in each of these threads but they moved the forums to a new forum site or software and they seem to have lost the proper links to the photos but the third link seems to have the photos working. The third link is a summary article of the first two forum threads. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2835 http://thegab.org/Veterinary-Procedures/wendyloves-renal-cysts.html (has photos of cyst procedure to go with the info in the forum threads) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2822 http://thegab.org/Articles/JanNewsletter2006.pdf (has photos in this document about tumor) All this said, if the "tumor" or cyst isn't bothering your fish, I wouldn't worry about it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I can't seem to spot anything wrong with your guppy in the photo's. I know fish are not easy to photograph though, LOL. Perhaps someone else can see what you're talking about on your guppy. What medications were you using with her, and was she on medication for the 3-4 weeks? Amber Noura wrote: > > > What is this "tumor" on my Guppy's tail? > It's been there for 3 or 4 weeks, the medications didn't change > anything. It's only changing shape once in a while. Is it safe to put > the fish back into the Guppy tank? (It also homes corydoras_aneus and > one Betta ? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/ > list> > > The photos should appear as soon as approved. > > Thanks > Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47906	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: OT: PDF Search Engine

Interesting site that I just ran across. It is a search engine for available PDF files. Enter your search term, and see what comes back, all in PDF format. http://www.pdfgeni.com/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47907	From: wdbowerman	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: compatable

Can ciclids or gorami lve peacefully with marble crayfish. Does anyone have a few of these fish for sale at a reasinable price.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47908	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: Re: compatable

Crayfish, crawdads, crawfish, whatever you call them, are best kept in a fishless tank. Fish that are not large enough for them to catch may be easily mutilated in the attempts to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wdbowerman Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] compatable Can ciclids or gorami lve peacefully with marble crayfish. Does anyone have a few of these fish for sale at a reasinable price.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47909	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: Re: compatable

Cichlids also like to eat crustaceans the minute they molt. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] compatable Crayfish, crawdads, crawfish, whatever you call them, are best kept in a fishless tank. Fish that are not large enough for them to catch may be easily mutilated in the attempts to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wdbowerman Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@ <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] compatable Can ciclids or gorami lve peacefully with marble crayfish. Does anyone have a few of these fish for sale at a reasinable price. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47910	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: Re: TUMOR

Maybe the male guppies are like that song... "Baby got back!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4he79krseU Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 1:43 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR Then the vote is for "doing nothing"! She's back in the Guppy tank now, and the males already started chasing her leaving all the other pretty and bigger females behind! She's a "new commer" afterall! MALES! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 4:39 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I couldn't begin to help you with a tumor. Because of the mass and blood vessels, there is a LOT more risk involved. I would suspect the fish has a greater chance of survival if you do nothing, than if you try to do this yourself. While aspirating a cyst has some risks, it's usually just post injection infection that you have to worry about. Removing a tumor could result in the fish bleeding out since you would be cutting one or more blood vessels that connect to the tumor and I'm not sure you would have the proper tools or knowledge on what to do about this possibility. If it were me, I would leave the fish alone and pray that it's own immune system kicks in and takes care of the tumor since you indicate professional help is not an option. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 6:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR It's not a clear bulb at all. I believe there are blood vessels running densely inside that "cluster" of bulbs. I held the fish in my hand, and pressed the bulb gently, it felt rubbery but kind of soft, it didn't leak or burst, but I didn't press hard either. So it seems it's a tumor. It's not a big concern for me if it's not contagious, but if it's best for the fish to have the tumor removed, then I can try to do it. Asking for professional help is not possible, I'll have to do it myself if provided with clear guidance. If the fish's chances of living are greater without doing the "surgery" and its consequences, such as secondary bacterial infection or massive bleeding, then I'll leave her alone. BTW, this fish was born in my tanks, and I believe that she had just started giving birth to her own fry before that tumor happened. These are additional reasons to take good care of her, and make the extra effort to keep her comfortable. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 1:12 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR A "2 pound chain attached to your foot"? I had a 135 pound chain for about 10 years but I finally divorced her. LOL OK... back to the fish... Is the bulb clear or does it look like there is a mass supplied by blood vessels growing inside of the bulb? If it's clear, in all likelihood, it's just a cyst. If it has a mass growing inside the bulb, then it's most likely a tumor. Well, if it's a cyst and you want to do something about it, since the cyst is not in a critical area next to other critical organs, you could aspirate the cyst and then see if a local veterinarian or local university biology department could examine the extracted fluid to tell you if it's something of major concern or not. I would arrange with them ahead of time and maybe they might be willing to do the aspiration for you... possibly at no cost if it's a university biology department as they could use it as a teaching experience for their pre-vet or veterinarian students. Cysts and tumors are not usually contagious... although some parasites will leave a cyst behind but they are usually much smaller than what you are seeing... but it's possible a parasitic cyst did cause your issue. I think you just have an atypical cyst which is more of an anomaly... if it's clear in color. If it was something smaller, it might be something to be concerned about, as far as it being contagious, but I don't think the various Koi Herpes Virus morphs have afflicted guppies. KHV does show up as smaller waxy looking growths or blisters on fins and other areas of Koi and Goldfish... and possibly other fish but those are the only two I'm familiar with right now. I compare KHV to the types of blisters a human might get on their lips if they get fever blisters or chapped lips and that causes their Herpes Simplex 1 to flare up. The Herpes Virus kind of lives on nerve endings so when the nerve endings get irritated, the Herpes Virus will be more likely to flare up. (Note that HS-1 is not the same as genital herpes, HS-2, although there can be some connection between the two.) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR The orange/red bulb is in deed what I'm concerned about. It could be a cyst, actually it seems that they are multiple cysts close to eachothers, all in the base of the tail, the biggest one, which appears in the photo, especially the photo taken from above, is about 3 mm in diameter on one side, and on the other side of the tail it's like an oval shape about 4 mm long. The tail's fin itself is shredded in half horizontally due to the cyst's position. the smaller cysts on both sides about about 1 mm. I think the cyst is making it harder for the fish to swim, imagine a 2 pound chain attached to your foot, and you have to walk with it! Well it's not the same in water, but you can see the connection here. I medicated for external diseases, two doses 3 days apart, using a medication that worked very well before on wounds and fungi. But nothing changed. She seemed a little weak on the early stages, and harassed by her mates, but now she's better, just moving heavily, somewhat. She 's still isolated however. I was wondering if this condition could be contagious, I need her hospital tank for guppy fry, so she has to go back to her Guppies tank, unless this could be contagious. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:30 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I just looked at the four pictures and the only thing I see that *might* be the "tumor" is on the top of the tail fin and it's the orange/red area that is blown up a little... maybe a 1/8" to 1/4" bulb? Is that the spot? The pic titled "Guppy 1" seems to show it the best for me... if this is the spot of the "tumor". If that isn't the spot, then I don't see anything else either. I do not know of any fish medications that will treat tumors. In humans, they use chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy to shrink tumors but those aren't really options for our fish at this stage in veterinary medicine. Besides being a possible tumor, it can also just as likely be a cyst and I think cysts are probably even more common than tumors. If the cyst isn't bothering the fish, most folks just leave them alone but if the cyst is in an area of the fish, like the thoracic region, where it might be pressing on other organs, then folks with larger fish have successfully aspirated the cyst. Here is an article on a goldfish forum which shows a veterinarian procedure step-by-step for doing this. Some fish keepers have done this themselves. The first three links are about a cyst. The next two links are about a tumor with the last link being a PDF file. There use to be photos in each of these threads but they moved the forums to a new forum site or software and they seem to have lost the proper links to the photos but the third link seems to have the photos working. The third link is a summary article of the first two forum threads. http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2854 http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2835 http://thegab.org/Veterinary-Procedures/wendyloves-renal-cysts.html (has photos of cyst procedure to go with the info in the forum threads) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2822 http://thegab.org/Articles/JanNewsletter2006.pdf (has photos in this document about tumor) All this said, if the "tumor" or cyst isn't bothering your fish, I wouldn't worry about it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] TUMOR I can't seem to spot anything wrong with your guppy in the photo's. I know fish are not easy to photograph though, LOL. Perhaps someone else can see what you're talking about on your guppy. What medications were you using with her, and was she on medication for the 3-4 weeks? Amber Noura wrote: > > > What is this "tumor" on my Guppy's tail? > It's been there for 3 or 4 weeks, the medications didn't change > anything. It's only changing shape once in a while. Is it safe to put > the fish back into the Guppy tank? (It also homes corydoras_aneus and > one Betta ? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/l > ist > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/ > list> > > The photos should appear as soon as approved. > > Thanks > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47911	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/24/2010
Subject: 15 Tanks in 80 Square Feet

For those of you who claim they do not have enough space to add more tanks, I'd like to direct you to page 9 of the publication found here: http://pvas.com/deltatale/deltatale_spring10.pdf. There is always room for another tank. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47912	From: Noura	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: DIY Python

Hi group, With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try building a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in our market. Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of making a primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are usually used in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was too week to even move a grain of gravel out of place. The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another low faucet in our apartment. I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was never suggested. What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or at the faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 Liter/Hour). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47913	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Hi group, With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try building a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in our market. Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of making a primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are usually used in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was too week to even move a grain of gravel out of place. The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another low faucet in our apartment. I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was never suggested. What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or at the faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 Liter/Hour). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47914	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN thing it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the Python's "pump" is green. http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N M Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the "venturi" from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the venturi part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years now. http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy (album with Python "pump" broken down) Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the venturi inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs sink. The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would result in loss of suction/siphon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Hi group, With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try building a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in our market. Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of making a primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are usually used in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was too week to even move a grain of gravel out of place. The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another low faucet in our apartment. I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was never suggested. What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or at the faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 Liter/Hour). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47915	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: For The Ladies

Offered on eBay, Talbots 100% IRISH LINEN Straight Knee Length SKIRT, WHITE background with bright, embroidered tropical fish Misses 12. http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/39 0186635868 http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47916	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Yes, I have to use my upstairs (2nd floor) bathroom sink to use my python on my tanks downstairs, for some reason the kitchen sink does not have enough water pressure, the bathroom sink does. And the bathroom sink has to work harder to suck all the water UPSTAIRS, LOL. I just don't get it, but oh well, it works ;) LOL. Perhaps you could buy just the part you need from the Python (the part that attaches to the faucet), I believe that's where the "fancy" pump part is that increases water pressure. There are other water changing devices out there, I'm sure you could get the pump part from somewhere if you need to (on the internet). Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of > making a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are > usually used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was > too week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or > at the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour). > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47917	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: For The Ladies

Ooh exotic goldfish skirt, hold me back ;) LOL Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Offered on eBay, Talbots 100% IRISH LINEN Straight Knee Length SKIRT, > WHITE > background with bright, embroidered tropical fish Misses 12. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/39 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/39> > 0186635868 > http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26 <http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47918	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: For The Ladies

I think the fishtail corset is prettier though Steve ;) LOL *http://tinyurl.com/22n97d8 Amber * Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Offered on eBay, Talbots 100% IRISH LINEN Straight Knee Length SKIRT, > WHITE > background with bright, embroidered tropical fish Misses 12. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/39 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/39> > 0186635868 > http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26 <http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47919	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: For The Ladies

Amber, On you, I imagine it would be. However, you may not like progressing 6" a step while you were wearing it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] For The Ladies I think the fishtail corset is prettier though Steve ;) LOL *http://tinyurl.com/22n97d8 Amber * Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Offered on eBay, Talbots 100% IRISH LINEN Straight Knee Length SKIRT, > WHITE > background with bright, embroidered tropical fish Misses 12. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/39 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/3 9> > 0186635868 > http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26 <http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26> > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47920	From: Noura	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a "pump" available. Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN thing it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the Python's "pump" is green. http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N M Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the "venturi" from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the venturi part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years now. http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy (album with Python "pump" broken down) Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the venturi inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs sink. The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would result in loss of suction/siphon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Hi group, With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try building a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in our market. Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of making a primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are usually used in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was too week to even move a grain of gravel out of place. The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another low faucet in our apartment. I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was never suggested. What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or at the faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 Liter/Hour). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47921	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: For The Ladies

The stepping is the easy part, try doing stairs in a skirt like that ;) LOL. Good thing fish don't have to try walking, or going up stairs, I'm sure they'd have just as many issues ;) Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > On you, I imagine it would be. However, you may not like progressing 6" a > step while you were wearing it. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] For The Ladies > > I think the fishtail corset is prettier though Steve ;) LOL > > *http://tinyurl.com/22n97d8 <http://tinyurl.com/22n97d8> > > Amber > * > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Offered on eBay, Talbots 100% IRISH LINEN Straight Knee Length SKIRT, > > WHITE > > background with bright, embroidered tropical fish Misses 12. > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/39 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/39> > > > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/3 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/IRISH-LINEN-SKIRT-w-Exotic-FISH-EMBROIDERY-White-12M-/3> > 9> > > 0186635868 > > http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26 <http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26> > <http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26 <http://tinyurl.com/2elpq26>> > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47922	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Just remember everything you use needs to be for "potable water" which means you can drink it and there will not be any added chemicals from the equipment/hoses etc. This way it's safe for fish too. Some hoses (such as an outdoor hose for water, will leach stuff into a fish tank so you need to be careful on what you use). Amber Noura wrote: > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing > stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a > "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a > regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of > making a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are > usually used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was > too week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or > at the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour). > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47923	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Oh and this is the part you need to be looking for Noura. http://www.petsolutions.com/Faucet-Pump+I94000132+C10251.aspx Amber Noura wrote: > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing > stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a > "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a > regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of > making a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are > usually used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was > too week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or > at the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour). > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47924	From: Noura	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

I have a clear hose, I believe it's safe for fish. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Just remember everything you use needs to be for "potable water" which means you can drink it and there will not be any added chemicals from the equipment/hoses etc. This way it's safe for fish too. Some hoses (such as an outdoor hose for water, will leach stuff into a fish tank so you need to be careful on what you use). Amber Noura wrote: > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing > stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a > "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a > regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47925	From: Noura	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Yeah that's it. I'll search for it next week. I was wondering, what does "waterbed" mean? My native language is Arabic, and I keep seeing that word when looking for DIY pythons on the internet. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Oh and this is the part you need to be looking for Noura. http://www.petsolutions.com/Faucet-Pump+I94000132+C10251.aspx Amber Noura wrote: > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing > stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a > "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a > regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of > making a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are > usually used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was > too week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or > at the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour). > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47926	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Wow... you mean the "waterbed" never made it to Syria? You might be considered lucky by some! ;-) It's basically a big vinyl mattress shaped *bag* that is filled with water instead of springs/foam, etc., and one sleeps on the water mattress instead of a conventional mattress. In the free flowing waterbed mattress, it's like you're laying on a big slushy, wavy layer of water. There are more sophisticated waterbed mattress pads that use baffle tubes and even incorporate foam and more structure to limit the amount of sloshing around since some folks actually get sea sick on them. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterbed Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Yeah that's it. I'll search for it next week. I was wondering, what does "waterbed" mean? My native language is Arabic, and I keep seeing that word when looking for DIY pythons on the internet. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Oh and this is the part you need to be looking for Noura. http://www.petsolutions.com/Faucet-Pump+I94000132+C10251.aspx Amber Noura wrote: > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing > stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a > "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a > regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6 N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of > making a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are > usually used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was > too week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or > at the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47927	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

It is a bed that holds water in it. Basically it's a large pillow full of water, now days there are water beds that are not one full mattress, they come with sections you fill with water so if it springs a leak you don't have a full bed of water on your floor, just a section of it ;) smart idea, I remember the ones from when I was a kid and I always wondered what would happen if it sprung a leak. This link may help, it shows the assembly for a waterbed. http://www.abcwaterbed.com/winstall1.htm Amber Noura wrote: > Yeah that's it. I'll search for it next week. > I was wondering, what does "waterbed" mean? My native language is Arabic, > and I keep seeing that word when looking for DIY pythons on the internet. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:56 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > > Oh and this is the part you need to be looking for Noura. > http://www.petsolutions.com/Faucet-Pump+I94000132+C10251.aspx > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > >> Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! >> lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing >> stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a >> "pump" available. >> Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the >> sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a >> regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. >> >> Noura >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python >> >> Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN >> thing >> it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone >> shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and >> then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher >> rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then >> water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. >> >> Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a >> part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over >> here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the >> Python's "pump" is green. >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N >> <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N> >> M >> >> Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the >> "venturi" >> from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I >> did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the >> venturi >> part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever >> improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever >> use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years >> now. >> >> http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy >> <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" >> broken down) >> >> Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc >> <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> >> >> I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her >> downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the >> venturi >> inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I >> *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs >> sink. >> >> The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your >> connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would >> result in loss of suction/siphon. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Donna Ransome >> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python >> >> Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured >> Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from >> the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. >> >> _____ >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Noura >> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python >> >> Hi group, >> With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try >> building >> a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the >> internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in >> our market. >> >> Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of >> making a >> primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are >> usually used >> in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was >> too week >> to even move a grain of gravel out of place. >> >> The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about >> 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to >> increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 >> feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up >> again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet >> because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another >> low faucet in our apartment. >> >> I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was >> never suggested. >> >> What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? >> >> If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost >> the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or >> at the >> faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 >> Liter/Hour). >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option >> where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47928	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Noura, I believe the piece used by the Python is known as a venture valve. Maybe someone else can verify or deny this for us. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a "pump" available. Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN thing it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the Python's "pump" is green. http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N M Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the "venturi" from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the venturi part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years now. http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy (album with Python "pump" broken down) Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the venturi inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs sink. The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would result in loss of suction/siphon. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Hi group, With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try building a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in our market. Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of making a primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are usually used in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was too week to even move a grain of gravel out of place. The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another low faucet in our apartment. I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was never suggested. What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or at the faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 Liter/Hour). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47929	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Lenny, All I know is that I have not gotten a decent night's sleep since my wife made me get rid of the waterbed for one of those select comfort things. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Wow... you mean the "waterbed" never made it to Syria? You might be considered lucky by some! ;-) It's basically a big vinyl mattress shaped *bag* that is filled with water instead of springs/foam, etc., and one sleeps on the water mattress instead of a conventional mattress. In the free flowing waterbed mattress, it's like you're laying on a big slushy, wavy layer of water. There are more sophisticated waterbed mattress pads that use baffle tubes and even incorporate foam and more structure to limit the amount of sloshing around since some folks actually get sea sick on them. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterbed Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Yeah that's it. I'll search for it next week. I was wondering, what does "waterbed" mean? My native language is Arabic, and I keep seeing that word when looking for DIY pythons on the internet. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Oh and this is the part you need to be looking for Noura. http://www.petsolutions.com/Faucet-Pump+I94000132+C10251.aspx Amber Noura wrote: > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing > stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a > "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a > regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6 N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of > making a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are > usually used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was > too week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or > at the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47930	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python

The green unit that presents a pumping action by water pressure is called a venturi valve or nozzle. It works by creating a suction due to water pressure presented in the direction and to the exit of the water. The bad thing is, that it wastes a lot of fresh water sucking out the bad. A person knowledgeable in Fluid Dynamics might have a more correct name for this device Best regards, Sam Palermo, Chief Engineer Skywave Broadcast Engineering, Chicago On 4/25/2010 7:12 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Noura, > > I believe the piece used by the Python is known as a venture valve. Maybe > someone else can verify or deny this for us. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now > I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing stores for this > piece. I was told today that there might not be such a "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, > the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a regular > syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of making > a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are usually > used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was too > week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or at > the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour). > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47931	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python

FYI For those wishing a more complete description on this device, name or function, see this website. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect Sam, On 4/25/2010 7:12 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Noura, > > I believe the piece used by the Python is known as a venture valve. Maybe > someone else can verify or deny this for us. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now > I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing stores for this > piece. I was told today that there might not be such a "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, > the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a regular > syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of making > a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are usually > used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was too > week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or at > the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour). > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47932	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

NOT! Try a Beauty Rest. Bill --- On Sun, 4/25/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, April 25, 2010, 8:18 PM > Lenny, > > All I know is that I have not gotten a decent night's sleep > since my wife > made me get rid of the waterbed for one of those select > comfort things. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Wow... you mean the "waterbed" never made it to > Syria?  You might be > considered lucky by some! ;-) > > It's basically a big vinyl mattress shaped *bag* that is > filled with water > instead of springs/foam, etc., and one sleeps on the water > mattress instead > of a conventional mattress.  In the free flowing > waterbed mattress, it's > like you're laying on a big slushy, wavy layer of > water.  There are more > sophisticated waterbed mattress pads that use baffle tubes > and even > incorporate foam and more structure to limit the amount of > sloshing around > since some folks actually get sea sick on them. LOL > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterbed > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Yeah that's it. I'll search for it next week. > I was wondering, what does "waterbed" mean? My native > language is Arabic, > and I keep seeing that word when looking for DIY pythons on > the internet. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:56 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > > Oh and this is the part you need to be looking for Noura. > http://www.petsolutions.com/Faucet-Pump+I94000132+C10251.aspx > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple > "T" piece! > > lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to > look in plumbing > > stores for this piece. I was told today that there > might not be such a > > "pump" available. > > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump > to empty into the > > sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even > going through a > > regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > > > Noura > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a > valve and the MAIN > > thing > > it has that causes the increased siphon is the > "Venturi", which is a cone > > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes > first the air and > > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the > sink, at a much higher > > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much > increased air, then > > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher > siphon flow rate. > > > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places > sell more commonly as a > > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one > online source over > > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on > this page, where the > > Python's "pump" is green. > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > > > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6 > N> > > M > > > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the > pics show the > > "venturi" > > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo > album a while back. I > > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to > Python because the > > venturi > > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not > sure if they ever > > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the > part before I ever > > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a > couple of years > > now. > > > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> > (album with Python "pump" > > broken down) > > > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs > sink to siphon her > > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much > added suction the > > venturi > > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not > Amber, then someone I > > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I > frequent uses an upstairs > > sink. > > > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting > good seals on your > > connections. If you are losing even a little of your > seal, that would > > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? > The manufactured > > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses > water pressure from > > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon > alone. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > > > Hi group, > > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I > decided to try > > building > > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all > the info from the > > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners > are not available in > > our market. > > > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, > we thought of > > making a > > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts > that are > > usually used > > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the > pressure was > > too week > > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > > > The height difference between the faucet and the top > of the tank is about > > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and > cold water to > > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's > length is approx. 30 > > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the > floor before rising up > > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the > bathroom low faucet > > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and > there isn't another > > low faucet in our apartment. > > > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, > but a solution was > > never suggested. > > > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY > Python hasn't? > > > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a > power head to boost > > the Python, where should the power head be installed, > in the tank or > > at the > > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this > purpose (1000 > > Liter/Hour). > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47933	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Feeding heterandria fry

Now that my heterandria formosa Tuft is fungus-free I put her into my 20 long with her friends and someone hatched out a few little ones. And I do mean little. Not like the rams, but super tiny. This species does not tend to eat its young so I am planning to leave the fry in with the adults. But I'm not sure how to do the feeding. If I offer baby brine and microworms, I'm not sure how to feed enough so the babies get enough without goofing up the adults' diets. I don't think the parents can eat only BBS and microworms, can they? Wouldn't I have to feed enormous amounts for them to get enough? Also, how many times a day should I feed everyone? I guess to sum up: How should I feed my new 20long that contains two hillstream loaches, eight heterandria formosa adults, and two or three HF newborns? Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47934	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python

Oh, great! Fine time to see a spelling error that was not picked up be a spell check since it is a real word. I meant to say VENTURI valve. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 8:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python FYI For those wishing a more complete description on this device, name or function, see this website. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect Sam, On 4/25/2010 7:12 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Noura, > > I believe the piece used by the Python is known as a venture valve. Maybe > someone else can verify or deny this for us. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now > I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing stores for this > piece. I was told today that there might not be such a "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, > the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a regular > syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6 N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of making > a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are usually > used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was too > week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or at > the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour). > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47935	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry

Lainey, You probably need an infusoria culture to feed those guys from. Just Google infusoria culture and you should come up with a bunch of hits on starting and maintaining one. Since it is going to take a few days, they will need to make do with the microscopic life that now exists in your tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry Now that my heterandria formosa Tuft is fungus-free I put her into my 20 long with her friends and someone hatched out a few little ones. And I do mean little. Not like the rams, but super tiny. This species does not tend to eat its young so I am planning to leave the fry in with the adults. But I'm not sure how to do the feeding. If I offer baby brine and microworms, I'm not sure how to feed enough so the babies get enough without goofing up the adults' diets. I don't think the parents can eat only BBS and microworms, can they? Wouldn't I have to feed enormous amounts for them to get enough? Also, how many times a day should I feed everyone? I guess to sum up: How should I feed my new 20long that contains two hillstream loaches, eight heterandria formosa adults, and two or three HF newborns? Thank you! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47936	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/25/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry

I think there may be a fair amount of infusoria in there already because I have loads of moss growing in the tank. I see them picking in the moss. But I guess I want to know in general, how do you feed a tank that has both adults and fry without over or underfeeding either party? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 25, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > You probably need an infusoria culture to feed those guys from. > Just Google > infusoria culture and you should come up with a bunch of hits on > starting > and maintaining one. Since it is going to take a few days, they > will need to > make do with the microscopic life that now exists in your tank. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > Now that my heterandria formosa Tuft is fungus-free I put her into my > 20 long with her friends and someone hatched out a few little ones. > And I do mean little. Not like the rams, but super tiny. This species > does not tend to eat its young so I am planning to leave the fry in > with the adults. But I'm not sure how to do the feeding. If I offer > baby brine and microworms, I'm not sure how to feed enough so the > babies get enough without goofing up the adults' diets. I don't think > the parents can eat only BBS and microworms, can they? Wouldn't I > have to feed enormous amounts for them to get enough? Also, how many > times a day should I feed everyone? > > I guess to sum up: > > How should I feed my new 20long that contains two hillstream loaches, > eight heterandria formosa adults, and two or three HF newborns? > > Thank you! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..>< > ((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/ > `7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47937	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry

Lainey, Just continue to feed as you have been feeding. If the fish start finishing the food faster than they have been, add a bit more to the feeding. If you go the infusoria route, you'll need to do a kind of by gosh, by golly, measurement until you seem to get it right. If you feed too much, your water may start to get cloudy. After you are done with the infusoria, you may wish to move up to daphnia and/or cyclops as a food, which the adults will enjoy as well. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry I think there may be a fair amount of infusoria in there already because I have loads of moss growing in the tank. I see them picking in the moss. But I guess I want to know in general, how do you feed a tank that has both adults and fry without over or underfeeding either party? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 25, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > You probably need an infusoria culture to feed those guys from. > Just Google > infusoria culture and you should come up with a bunch of hits on > starting > and maintaining one. Since it is going to take a few days, they > will need to > make do with the microscopic life that now exists in your tank. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > Now that my heterandria formosa Tuft is fungus-free I put her into my > 20 long with her friends and someone hatched out a few little ones. > And I do mean little. Not like the rams, but super tiny. This species > does not tend to eat its young so I am planning to leave the fry in > with the adults. But I'm not sure how to do the feeding. If I offer > baby brine and microworms, I'm not sure how to feed enough so the > babies get enough without goofing up the adults' diets. I don't think > the parents can eat only BBS and microworms, can they? Wouldn't I > have to feed enormous amounts for them to get enough? Also, how many > times a day should I feed everyone? > > I guess to sum up: > > How should I feed my new 20long that contains two hillstream loaches, > eight heterandria formosa adults, and two or three HF newborns? > > Thank you! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47938	From: Noura	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

It turned out that I knew what "waterbed" is. I just assumed it was a word used to describe something else because they mentioned it a lot when describing a plumbing piece "the pump". We do have that here in Syria, I remember my aunt had one some 20 years ago I think, I just never liked the idea, unless you're planning to sleep in a garden or near a sump on the balkony! lol Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 1:00 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python It is a bed that holds water in it. Basically it's a large pillow full of water, now days there are water beds that are not one full mattress, they come with sections you fill with water so if it springs a leak you don't have a full bed of water on your floor, just a section of it ;) smart idea, I remember the ones from when I was a kid and I always wondered what would happen if it sprung a leak. This link may help, it shows the assembly for a waterbed. http://www.abcwaterbed.com/winstall1.htm Amber Noura wrote: > Yeah that's it. I'll search for it next week. > I was wondering, what does "waterbed" mean? My native language is Arabic, > and I keep seeing that word when looking for DIY pythons on the internet. > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:56 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > > Oh and this is the part you need to be looking for Noura. > http://www.petsolutions.com/Faucet-Pump+I94000132+C10251.aspx > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > >> Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! >> lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing >> stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a >> "pump" available. >> Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the >> sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a >> regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. >> >> Noura >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python >> >> Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN >> thing >> it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone >> shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and >> then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher >> rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then >> water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. >> >> Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as >> a >> part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over >> here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the >> Python's "pump" is green. >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N >> <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N> >> M >> >> Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the >> "venturi" >> from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I >> did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the >> venturi >> part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever >> improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever >> use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years >> now. >> >> http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy >> <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python >> "pump" >> broken down) >> >> Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc >> <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> >> >> I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her >> downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the >> venturi >> inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I >> *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an >> upstairs >> sink. >> >> The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your >> connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would >> result in loss of suction/siphon. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Donna Ransome >> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python >> >> Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured >> Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure >> from >> the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. >> >> _____ >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Noura >> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python >> >> Hi group, >> With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try >> building >> a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the >> internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in >> our market. >> >> Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of >> making a >> primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are >> usually used >> in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was >> too week >> to even move a grain of gravel out of place. >> >> The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about >> 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to >> increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 >> feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up >> again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet >> because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another >> low faucet in our apartment. >> >> I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was >> never suggested. >> >> What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? >> >> If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to >> boost >> the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or >> at the >> faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 >> Liter/Hour). >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank >> You. >> 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important >> to >> the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the >> SUBJECT >> LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, >> you >> can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on >> the >> home page. >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >> which >> includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option >> where >> you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47939	From: Noura	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: DIY Python

Sea sick? Makes perfect sense to me, I know I WOULD feel sea sick on one of these. I'm wondering if anyone came up with the idea of making a transparent water bed and then put some live fish in for the extra exotic feeling? They won't even need a heater.. ggggrrr.. freaky! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 1:01 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Wow... you mean the "waterbed" never made it to Syria? You might be considered lucky by some! ;-) It's basically a big vinyl mattress shaped *bag* that is filled with water instead of springs/foam, etc., and one sleeps on the water mattress instead of a conventional mattress. In the free flowing waterbed mattress, it's like you're laying on a big slushy, wavy layer of water. There are more sophisticated waterbed mattress pads that use baffle tubes and even incorporate foam and more structure to limit the amount of sloshing around since some folks actually get sea sick on them. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterbed Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Yeah that's it. I'll search for it next week. I was wondering, what does "waterbed" mean? My native language is Arabic, and I keep seeing that word when looking for DIY pythons on the internet. Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY Python Oh and this is the part you need to be looking for Noura. http://www.petsolutions.com/Faucet-Pump+I94000132+C10251.aspx Amber Noura wrote: > > Oh well! I've been trying the DIY python with a simple "T" piece! > lol.. Now I see where the problem was! I'll try to look in plumbing > stores for this piece. I was told today that there might not be such a > "pump" available. > Otherwise, I'm bringing a "real" electric water pump to empty into the > sink, the 30' hose seems to hold the water from even going through a > regular syphoning procedure to the shower's floor. > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:27 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Correct. They call it a "pump" but it's actually a valve and the MAIN > thing > it has that causes the increased siphon is the "Venturi", which is a cone > shaped piece so that water squirting through it causes first the air and > then the water to move down the 5" tube, into the sink, at a much higher > rate than just flowing from the faucet. This much increased air, then > water, flow rate is what creates the much higher siphon flow rate. > > Were you able to buy the "pump", which some places sell more commonly as a > part for emptying waterbeds? Here's the pump from one online source over > here. You'll see the "pump" is blue in the photo on this page, where the > Python's "pump" is green. > > http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6N > <http://www.amazon.com/Waterbed-Mattress-Drain-Water-Conditioner/dp/B001F0S6 N> > M > > Here's the Python "pump", which I took apart and the pics show the > "venturi" > from some photos I posted to my Webshots.com photo album a while back. I > did these mainly as part of an email complaint to Python because the > venturi > part kept splitting in the same spot for me. I'm not sure if they ever > improved their design since I use epoxy to beef up the part before I ever > use it now so I haven't had that part break on me in a couple of years > now. > > http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy > <http://pets.webshots.com/album/568640862iqetMy> (album with Python "pump" > broken down) > > Venturi - http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc > <http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2880346060070613611MenPMc> > > I believe it is Amber who actually uses an upstairs sink to siphon her > downstairs tanks, to give you an idea of how much added suction the > venturi > inside the Python (or DIY) pump adds. If it's not Amber, then someone I > *know* from one of the many forums/groups that I frequent uses an upstairs > sink. > > The other thing to check is whether you are getting good seals on your > connections. If you are losing even a little of your seal, that would > result in loss of suction/siphon. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Are you using the faucet to vacuum as well as refill? The manufactured > Python has a "pump" (more of a valve really) that uses water pressure from > the faucet to create more suction than just a siphon alone. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY Python > > Hi group, > With three tanks now in the house, my husband and I decided to try > building > a DIY Python, to help me with the PWCs. So I got all the info from the > internet, I remind you that python aquarium cleaners are not available in > our market. > > Before actually buying the necessary "proper" parts, we thought of > making a > primary version of the DIY python, using plastic parts that are > usually used > in farm irrigation. there was no spill at all, but the pressure was > too week > to even move a grain of gravel out of place. > > The height difference between the faucet and the top of the tank is about > 16" (The tank's top is higher). we opened both hot and cold water to > increase pressure but still didn't work. The hose's length is approx. 30 > feet. Naturally it goes from the tank down to the floor before rising up > again to the sink's level. I'm trying not to use the bathroom low faucet > because I don't want the fish water on the floor, and there isn't another > low faucet in our apartment. > > I read about a similar problem in DIY Aquarium forums, but a solution was > never suggested. > > What is it that the ready-made Python has and the DIY Python hasn't? > > If there was no solution for this, and I tried using a power head to boost > the Python, where should the power head be installed, in the tank or > at the > faucet? I'm planning to use my UGF power head for this purpose (1000 > Liter/Hour). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47940	From: Noura	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: My DIY aquarium caves

Hello group, Here are my two DIY pvc caves, the Y cave is for the Malawi Chiclid tank, and they love it, but they may not fit into the small side "window" shortly after they get bigger. The second "simple" cave is in the community tank, but no one seems to like it, maybe because there are no windows! They're made of PVC pipes, 100% pure silicone, and aquarium gravel, with a big help from my husband with sawing and cutting the pipes :) I took the instruction from the internet. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/751530117/pic/list You can find the instructions detailed on this webpage: http://aquarium.shuru.com/DIY%20Aquarium%20Cave%20Page%201.htm (http://aquarium.shuru.com/DIY%20Aquarium%20Cave%20Page%201.htm) Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47941	From: William M	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry

ON the tanks that I have with small fry, I have lots of healthy live true aquatic plants so that they can pick the infusoria from the leaves as well as be able to hide from larger fish. I have bred many fish this way including several kinds of killifish and many live bearing fishes. I am attempting to breed Dario dario (scarlet Badis) in a set up like this now. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Lainey, > > Just continue to feed as you have been feeding. If the fish start finishing > the food faster than they have been, add a bit more to the feeding. If you > go the infusoria route, you'll need to do a kind of by gosh, by golly, > measurement until you seem to get it right. If you feed too much, your water > may start to get cloudy. > > After you are done with the infusoria, you may wish to move up to daphnia > and/or cyclops as a food, which the adults will enjoy as well. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > I think there may be a fair amount of infusoria in there already > because I have loads of moss growing in the tank. I see them picking > in the moss. But I guess I want to know in general, how do you feed a > tank that has both adults and fry without over or underfeeding either > party? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 25, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > You probably need an infusoria culture to feed those guys from. > > Just Google > > infusoria culture and you should come up with a bunch of hits on > > starting > > and maintaining one. Since it is going to take a few days, they > > will need to > > make do with the microscopic life that now exists in your tank. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:13 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > > > Now that my heterandria formosa Tuft is fungus-free I put her into my > > 20 long with her friends and someone hatched out a few little ones. > > And I do mean little. Not like the rams, but super tiny. This species > > does not tend to eat its young so I am planning to leave the fry in > > with the adults. But I'm not sure how to do the feeding. If I offer > > baby brine and microworms, I'm not sure how to feed enough so the > > babies get enough without goofing up the adults' diets. I don't think > > the parents can eat only BBS and microworms, can they? Wouldn't I > > have to feed enormous amounts for them to get enough? Also, how many > > times a day should I feed everyone? > > > > I guess to sum up: > > > > How should I feed my new 20long that contains two hillstream loaches, > > eight heterandria formosa adults, and two or three HF newborns? > > > > Thank you! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47942	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry

Hi William - How often do you feed the adults in these fry/adult tanks? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:28 AM, William M wrote: > ON the tanks that I have with small fry, I have lots of healthy > live true aquatic plants so that they can pick the infusoria from > the leaves as well as be able to hide from larger fish. I have bred > many fish this way including several kinds of killifish and many > live bearing fishes. I am attempting to breed Dario dario (scarlet > Badis) in a set up like this now. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Lainey, > > > > Just continue to feed as you have been feeding. If the fish start > finishing > > the food faster than they have been, add a bit more to the > feeding. If you > > go the infusoria route, you'll need to do a kind of by gosh, by > golly, > > measurement until you seem to get it right. If you feed too much, > your water > > may start to get cloudy. > > > > After you are done with the infusoria, you may wish to move up to > daphnia > > and/or cyclops as a food, which the adults will enjoy as well. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > > > I think there may be a fair amount of infusoria in there already > > because I have loads of moss growing in the tank. I see them picking > > in the moss. But I guess I want to know in general, how do you > feed a > > tank that has both adults and fry without over or underfeeding > either > > party? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 25, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > You probably need an infusoria culture to feed those guys from. > > > Just Google > > > infusoria culture and you should come up with a bunch of hits on > > > starting > > > and maintaining one. Since it is going to take a few days, they > > > will need to > > > make do with the microscopic life that now exists in your tank. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:13 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > > > > > Now that my heterandria formosa Tuft is fungus-free I put her > into my > > > 20 long with her friends and someone hatched out a few little > ones. > > > And I do mean little. Not like the rams, but super tiny. This > species > > > does not tend to eat its young so I am planning to leave the > fry in > > > with the adults. But I'm not sure how to do the feeding. If I > offer > > > baby brine and microworms, I'm not sure how to feed enough so the > > > babies get enough without goofing up the adults' diets. I don't > think > > > the parents can eat only BBS and microworms, can they? Wouldn't I > > > have to feed enormous amounts for them to get enough? Also, how > many > > > times a day should I feed everyone? > > > > > > I guess to sum up: > > > > > > How should I feed my new 20long that contains two hillstream > loaches, > > > eight heterandria formosa adults, and two or three HF newborns? > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47943	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry

Lainey, The MAIN thing you need to worry about is the fry getting frequent feedings... many times a day, just like a crying baby gets fed every few hours... or they let you know about it!!! Since the fry will instinctively hang in and around plants, I would use a turkey baster to make sure some of the food gets squirted into/around the plants so the fry will be able to get to it and the adults will have a tougher time. Of course, this could lead to adults being tempted to eat the fry while on their feeding frenzy if there was only food in the plants so make sure you first feed the open area of the tank, so the adults are drawn to that area first, and then squirt some of the leftovers into the plants for the fry. At least... that's what I would do. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 12:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Feeding heterandria fry Hi William - How often do you feed the adults in these fry/adult tanks? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:28 AM, William M wrote: > ON the tanks that I have with small fry, I have lots of healthy live > true aquatic plants so that they can pick the infusoria from the > leaves as well as be able to hide from larger fish. I have bred many > fish this way including several kinds of killifish and many live > bearing fishes. I am attempting to breed Dario dario (scarlet > Badis) in a set up like this now. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > > > Lainey, > > > > Just continue to feed as you have been feeding. If the fish start > finishing > > the food faster than they have been, add a bit more to the > feeding. If you > > go the infusoria route, you'll need to do a kind of by gosh, by > golly, > > measurement until you seem to get it right. If you feed too much, > your water > > may start to get cloudy. > > > > After you are done with the infusoria, you may wish to move up to > daphnia > > and/or cyclops as a food, which the adults will enjoy as well. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > > > I think there may be a fair amount of infusoria in there already > > because I have loads of moss growing in the tank. I see them picking > > in the moss. But I guess I want to know in general, how do you > feed a > > tank that has both adults and fry without over or underfeeding > either > > party? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Apr 25, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > You probably need an infusoria culture to feed those guys from. > > > Just Google > > > infusoria culture and you should come up with a bunch of hits on > > > starting and maintaining one. Since it is going to take a few > > > days, they will need to make do with the microscopic life that now > > > exists in your tank. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:13 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > > > > > Now that my heterandria formosa Tuft is fungus-free I put her > into my > > > 20 long with her friends and someone hatched out a few little > ones. > > > And I do mean little. Not like the rams, but super tiny. This > species > > > does not tend to eat its young so I am planning to leave the > fry in > > > with the adults. But I'm not sure how to do the feeding. If I > offer > > > baby brine and microworms, I'm not sure how to feed enough so the > > > babies get enough without goofing up the adults' diets. I don't > think > > > the parents can eat only BBS and microworms, can they? Wouldn't I > > > have to feed enormous amounts for them to get enough? Also, how > many > > > times a day should I feed everyone? > > > > > > I guess to sum up: > > > > > > How should I feed my new 20long that contains two hillstream > loaches, > > > eight heterandria formosa adults, and two or three HF newborns? > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47944	From: William M	Date: 4/26/2010
Subject: Re: Feeding heterandria fry

In tanks that have plenty of healthy true aquatic plants there will be plenty of infusoria swimming around and any extra fish food will be food for the infusoria. So ass long as you are feeding the adult well and the tank is large enough for all of the animals you should not have to feed many times a day. If you do frequent partial water changes it would not hurt to put in infusoria several time a day after feeding the adults. A little at a time so that the tank does not get overgrown with infusoria. A few times I have had fry n the tanks for weeks before I noticed them but they had been eating the infusoria and flake foods (that were being earing by the messy adults. I like some of the tanks that I am breeding smaller fish to be so thick that I might not see the adults for several days or even weeks at a time except at feeding times.This way the fry have a better chance of keeping out of the way of hungry adults and the infusoria and foods that are not eaten by the adults will be food for the fry and young. It is interesting to look into a heavily planted tank and see some several day or week old fry for the first time. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Hi William - > > How often do you feed the adults in these fry/adult tanks? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:28 AM, William M wrote: > > > ON the tanks that I have with small fry, I have lots of healthy > > live true aquatic plants so that they can pick the infusoria from > > the leaves as well as be able to hide from larger fish. I have bred > > many fish this way including several kinds of killifish and many > > live bearing fishes. I am attempting to breed Dario dario (scarlet > > Badis) in a set up like this now. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > Just continue to feed as you have been feeding. If the fish start > > finishing > > > the food faster than they have been, add a bit more to the > > feeding. If you > > > go the infusoria route, you'll need to do a kind of by gosh, by > > golly, > > > measurement until you seem to get it right. If you feed too much, > > your water > > > may start to get cloudy. > > > > > > After you are done with the infusoria, you may wish to move up to > > daphnia > > > and/or cyclops as a food, which the adults will enjoy as well. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:45 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > > > > > I think there may be a fair amount of infusoria in there already > > > because I have loads of moss growing in the tank. I see them picking > > > in the moss. But I guess I want to know in general, how do you > > feed a > > > tank that has both adults and fry without over or underfeeding > > either > > > party? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Apr 25, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > > > You probably need an infusoria culture to feed those guys from. > > > > Just Google > > > > infusoria culture and you should come up with a bunch of hits on > > > > starting > > > > and maintaining one. Since it is going to take a few days, they > > > > will need to > > > > make do with the microscopic life that now exists in your tank. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:13 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Feeding heterandria fry > > > > > > > > Now that my heterandria formosa Tuft is fungus-free I put her > > into my > > > > 20 long with her friends and someone hatched out a few little > > ones. > > > > And I do mean little. Not like the rams, but super tiny. This > > species > > > > does not tend to eat its young so I am planning to leave the > > fry in > > > > with the adults. But I'm not sure how to do the feeding. If I > > offer > > > > baby brine and microworms, I'm not sure how to feed enough so the > > > > babies get enough without goofing up the adults' diets. I don't > > think > > > > the parents can eat only BBS and microworms, can they? Wouldn't I > > > > have to feed enormous amounts for them to get enough? Also, how > > many > > > > times a day should I feed everyone? > > > > > > > > I guess to sum up: > > > > > > > > How should I feed my new 20long that contains two hillstream > > loaches, > > > > eight heterandria formosa adults, and two or three HF newborns? > > > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47945	From: Avin Deen	Date: 4/27/2010
Subject: Cories dying

Hi all A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it could be because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking pellets and crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has died. My tetras and cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra cambodgeinsis. Could anyone help me? regards Avin -------------------------------- Angus Starling-British missionary (Brian McArdie) : l've lived in Africa for a year, and l don't know what you know. How long have you been here? Col. John Patterson (Val Kilmer) : Just about 24 hours. But l've been longing for this all my life. in The Ghost and the Darkness. Indian Parakeets [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47946	From: Noura	Date: 4/27/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

I know what the fish geeks here will start asking you before giving you any answers. So let me buy you some time and allow you to give some necessary information before they get here and give analysis! lol you need to tell us/them: Size of your tank. For how long have you had those corys. Your tank water's parameters: Nitrate, Nitirit, Ammonia, pH. Your maintainance schedule. Did you add any medications recently, or salt? I think Corys are sensible to salt. Okey, now I'm passing the stick to someone else, this is the furthest that I can get to! Good luck, Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Avin Deen To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying Hi all A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it could be because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking pellets and crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has died. My tetras and cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra cambodgeinsis. Could anyone help me? regards Avin -------------------------------- Angus Starling-British missionary (Brian McArdie) : l've lived in Africa for a year, and l don't know what you know. How long have you been here? Col. John Patterson (Val Kilmer) : Just about 24 hours. But l've been longing for this all my life. in The Ghost and the Darkness. Indian Parakeets [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47947	From: avinvasion	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

Size of my tank- 4 feet by 2 feet by 2 feet- that makes it 105 gallons i guess I have had the cories for about 5 weeks approximately There is no ammonia or nitrite- haven't checked nitrate but is heavily planted so unlike that there is a high level 30% or more water change every week -sometimes i skip a wc. roughly say about 8 wc every 10 weeks I have not added any medication to the tank recently. Avin --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > I know what the fish geeks here will start asking you before giving you any answers. So let me buy you some time and allow you to give some necessary information before they get here and give analysis! lol > > you need to tell us/them: > > Size of your tank. > For how long have you had those corys. > Your tank water's parameters: Nitrate, Nitirit, Ammonia, pH. > Your maintainance schedule. > Did you add any medications recently, or salt? I think Corys are sensible to salt. > > Okey, now I'm passing the stick to someone else, this is the furthest that I can get to! > > Good luck, > Noura > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Avin Deen > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 8:11 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying > > > > Hi all > > A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it could be because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking pellets and crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has died. My tetras and cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra cambodgeinsis. Could anyone help me? > > regards > > Avin > > -------------------------------- > > Angus Starling-British missionary (Brian McArdie) : > l've lived in Africa for a year, > and l don't know what you know. > How long have you > been here? > Col. John Patterson (Val Kilmer) : > Just about 24 hours. > But l've been longing > for this all my life. > > in > The Ghost and the Darkness. > > Indian Parakeets > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47948	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

Do you clean your filter/s every week? Do you know what your pH for your tank and your tapwater is? Amber avinvasion wrote: > > Size of my tank- 4 feet by 2 feet by 2 feet- that makes it 105 gallons > i guess > > I have had the cories for about 5 weeks approximately > > There is no ammonia or nitrite- haven't checked nitrate but is heavily > planted so unlike that there is a high level > > 30% or more water change every week -sometimes i skip a wc. roughly > say about 8 wc every 10 weeks > > I have not added any medication to the tank recently. > > Avin > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > > I know what the fish geeks here will start asking you before giving > you any answers. So let me buy you some time and allow you to give > some necessary information before they get here and give analysis! lol > > > > you need to tell us/them: > > > > Size of your tank. > > For how long have you had those corys. > > Your tank water's parameters: Nitrate, Nitirit, Ammonia, pH. > > Your maintainance schedule. > > Did you add any medications recently, or salt? I think Corys are > sensible to salt. > > > > Okey, now I'm passing the stick to someone else, this is the > furthest that I can get to! > > > > Good luck, > > Noura > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Avin Deen > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 8:11 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it > could be because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking > pellets and crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has > died. My tetras and cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra > cambodgeinsis. Could anyone help me? > > > > regards > > > > Avin > > > > -------------------------------- > > > > Angus Starling-British missionary (Brian McArdie) : > > l've lived in Africa for a year, > > and l don't know what you know. > > How long have you > > been here? > > Col. John Patterson (Val Kilmer) : > > Just about 24 hours. > > But l've been longing > > for this all my life. > > > > in > > The Ghost and the Darkness. > > > > Indian Parakeets > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47949	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

As Noura has mentioned, we do need to know a bit about your tank and how it is set=up, the water parameters, etc. Also, How did the fish look prior to death. Were there barbells in good condition or were they worn? Were the fins in good shape, what was the condition of the body? The more you can tell us, the better we can reply with something that may actually help you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Avin Deen Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying Hi all A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it could be because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking pellets and crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has died. My tetras and cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra cambodgeinsis. Could anyone help me? regards Avin -------------------------------- Angus Starling-British missionary (Brian McArdie) : l've lived in Africa for a year, and l don't know what you know. How long have you been here? Col. John Patterson (Val Kilmer) : Just about 24 hours. But l've been longing for this all my life. in The Ghost and the Darkness. Indian Parakeets

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47950	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

Might I suggest my "Sick Fish Questionnaire" form from my blog... http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html Just copy/paste all the questions and answer them as best you can here. It's difficult to diagnose fish when we have them in front of us but without seeing them or knowing all their history, it's even harder. The more info you can give us, the better we can help you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 9:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Cories dying As Noura has mentioned, we do need to know a bit about your tank and how it is set=up, the water parameters, etc. Also, How did the fish look prior to death. Were there barbells in good condition or were they worn? Were the fins in good shape, what was the condition of the body? The more you can tell us, the better we can reply with something that may actually help you. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Avin Deen Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying Hi all A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it could be because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking pellets and crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has died. My tetras and cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra cambodgeinsis. Could anyone help me? regards Avin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47951	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

I just sent a reply asking you to answer the questions in the "Sick Fish Questionnaire" but I see you have provided some more info below. How long has this tank been set up? I'm guessing a while but let us know. Since these Cory's were new to the tank and made it the first month, that's usually a good sign but something is obviously still going wrong. What species of Corydoras do you have? Here's a page with many of the most common species but there are dozens, if not hundreds of more species out there that are constantly being collected and sold. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm Mongabay.com is a good place to start for looking up reliable fish profiles and care sheets on all of your fish so you can better know how to set up your tank for them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avinvasion Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cories dying Size of my tank- 4 feet by 2 feet by 2 feet- that makes it 105 gallons i guess I have had the cories for about 5 weeks approximately There is no ammonia or nitrite- haven't checked nitrate but is heavily planted so unlike that there is a high level 30% or more water change every week -sometimes i skip a wc. roughly say about 8 wc every 10 weeks I have not added any medication to the tank recently. Avin --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > I know what the fish geeks here will start asking you before giving > you any answers. So let me buy you some time and allow you to give > some necessary information before they get here and give analysis! lol > > you need to tell us/them: > > Size of your tank. > For how long have you had those corys. > Your tank water's parameters: Nitrate, Nitirit, Ammonia, pH. > Your maintainance schedule. > Did you add any medications recently, or salt? I think Corys are sensible to salt. > > Okey, now I'm passing the stick to someone else, this is the furthest that I can get to! > > Good luck, > Noura > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Avin Deen > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 8:11 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying > > > > Hi all > > A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it could be because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking pellets and crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has died. My tetras and cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra cambodgeinsis. Could anyone help me? > > regards > > Avin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47952	From: avinvasion	Date: 4/28/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

Hi Steve and others The barbels were in good condition. The ph is 7.3 when i last checked it. My filter is cannister and may be my maintenance is not up to the mark-i clean it only once in two months. I have also not replaced the filter media since the tank was set up in December 2009. But since my cardinals are doing well - i am assuming that the water is ok because they are a delicate fish. regards Avin --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > As Noura has mentioned, we do need to know a bit about your tank and how it > is set=up, the water parameters, etc. Also, How did the fish look prior to > death. Were there barbells in good condition or were they worn? Were the > fins in good shape, what was the condition of the body? The more you can > tell us, the better we can reply with something that may actually help you. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Avin Deen > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying > > Hi all > > A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it could be > because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking pellets and > crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has died. My tetras and > cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra cambodgeinsis. Could anyone > help me? > > regards > > Avin > > -------------------------------- > > > Angus Starling-British missionary (Brian McArdie) : > l've lived in Africa for a year, > and l don't know what you know. > How long have you > been here? > Col. John Patterson (Val Kilmer) : > Just about 24 hours. > But l've been longing > for this all my life. > > in > The Ghost and the Darkness. > > Indian Parakeets >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47953	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

I'm not sure if your filter maintenance lapses are a cause of your fish deaths... but you should probably be cleaning your filter every week or two at least, along with your good schedule of weekly PWC's (partial water changes). Here's my article about proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning Recommendations", http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/notice-this-article-is-very-important. html OR http://tinyurl.com/Filter-Maintenance Here's what another fish keeper says about filter cleaning... FILTRATION: HAVING TO CLEAN A FILTER CAN BE GOOD. First of all, if a filter does not collect junk and clog, it isn't doing its job and working to get the junk out of the water. Since IT'S ALL ABOUT WATER QUALITY, the filter is supposed to take organics out of the water to IMPROVE water quality. (Inorganics = rocks = really aren't a problem.) If a filter catches organics and the filter is not clogged (yet) but also not cleaned - then the organics can dissolve and go back into the water in solution = LOWERING THE WATER QUALITY. SO, the object of a good pond keeper is to IMPROVE water quality = clean the organics from ANY filter BEFORE they dissolve = every other day, every third day....... Sorry for bringing reality into your lives.... I know everyone wants a filter that doesn't EVER need to be cleaned. Imagine that the filter catches poop. So it is the fishes' toilet. How often do you clean (flush) your toilet? Why? Why not the fishes' also. :-) Bill (END SNIP) By not cleaning your filter for two months, a LOT of the detritus, fish poop, etc., that it catches will simply dissolve and go back into the tank as DOC's (Dissolved Organic Compounds). DOC's can be measured with an appropriate testing device but the general rule is that we want to keep DOC's as low as possible and this is why we do regular PWC's, which I notice you are doing... but then you must also clean your filter to get rid of all the waste in the filter media or you are just fighting against yourself with your good PWC schedule. Cleaning the filter is just as important as doing PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avinvasion Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 12:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cories dying Hi Steve and others The barbels were in good condition. The ph is 7.3 when i last checked it. My filter is cannister and may be my maintenance is not up to the mark-i clean it only once in two months. I have also not replaced the filter media since the tank was set up in December 2009. But since my cardinals are doing well - i am assuming that the water is ok because they are a delicate fish. regards Avin --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > As Noura has mentioned, we do need to know a bit about your tank and > how it is set=up, the water parameters, etc. Also, How did the fish > look prior to death. Were there barbells in good condition or were > they worn? Were the fins in good shape, what was the condition of the > body? The more you can tell us, the better we can reply with something that may actually help you. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Avin Deen > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying > > Hi all > > A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it > could be because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking > pellets and crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has > died. My tetras and cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra > cambodgeinsis. Could anyone help me? > > regards > > Avin

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47954	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???

LOL... I know... what a Subject line... but I added two new little apps to my blog called Flag Counters, one to track visitors from around the world and the other for just the USA. I'm trying to check it's accuracy and there is no visit from Alaska yet... and some other States too but I don't know if I know people in those other States. So Amber... go to my blog and reply after you did so I can check the Flag Counter to see if got Alaska right. There's always a chance you might get counted as Canada since you're in S. Alaska. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47955	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???

Lenny, I visited your blog. I like it a lot & have been to it before, but I tend to "forget" when I'm not online in awhile;(( But I wanted to let ya know that I visited so you can see if you got an add on your counter. I am in NY, btw:) ~~Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 4/29/2010 10:17:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so??? LOL... I know... what a Subject line... but I added two new little apps to my blog called Flag Counters, one to track visitors from around the world and the other for just the USA. I'm trying to check it's accuracy and there is no visit from Alaska yet... and some other States too but I don't know if I know people in those other States. So Amber... go to my blog and reply after you did so I can check the Flag Counter to see if got Alaska right. There's always a chance you might get counted as Canada since you're in S. Alaska. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47956	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???

Yes, NY is well represented. Since adding the U.S. Flag Counter on April 22, 2010, there have been eight visitors from NY. LA, CA, TX and FL are ahead of NY but I think LA is artificially high because of my own visits to my blog while working on adding the Flag Counters and doing some other maintenance. I clear out 99% of my cookies every day, using CCleaner to manage which ones I keep on my computer, so I inadvertently kept clearing the FlagCounter cookie so it kept counting me as a new visitor every time for the first several days until I realized my error. I've since added the FlagCounter cookie to my permanent cookies so it will not keep counting me as a new visitor each time. If you don't know what cookies are... in internet surfing terms... then this may all be Greek to you... or some other foreign language if you're fluent in Greek. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so??? Lenny, I visited your blog. I like it a lot & have been to it before, but I tend to "forget" when I'm not online in awhile;(( But I wanted to let ya know that I visited so you can see if you got an add on your counter. I am in NY, btw:) ~~Tara -------Original Message------- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Date: 4/29/2010 10:17:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so??? LOL... I know... what a Subject line... but I added two new little apps to my blog called Flag Counters, one to track visitors from around the world and the other for just the USA. I'm trying to check it's accuracy and there is no visit from Alaska yet... and some other States too but I don't know if I know people in those other States. So Amber... go to my blog and reply after you did so I can check the Flag Counter to see if got Alaska right. There's always a chance you might get counted as Canada since you're in S. Alaska. LOL Lenny Vasbinder

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47957	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???

Okay I visited, did it count me as an Alaskan? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > LOL... I know... what a Subject line... but I added two new little apps to > my blog called Flag Counters, one to track visitors from around the world > and the other for just the USA. I'm trying to check it's accuracy and > there > is no visit from Alaska yet... and some other States too but I don't > know if > I know people in those other States. > > So Amber... go to my blog and reply after you did so I can check the Flag > Counter to see if got Alaska right. There's always a chance you might get > counted as Canada since you're in S. Alaska. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47958	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???

Yep. Thanks. I wasn't sure how accurate it was going to be for you since you're just off the coast of B.C., Canada. They claim to be 99.9% accurate but I figured your area might be that 0.1%. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so??? Okay I visited, did it count me as an Alaskan? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > LOL... I know... what a Subject line... but I added two new little > apps to my blog called Flag Counters, one to track visitors from > around the world and the other for just the USA. I'm trying to check > it's accuracy and there is no visit from Alaska yet... and some other > States too but I don't know if I know people in those other States. > > So Amber... go to my blog and reply after you did so I can check the > Flag Counter to see if got Alaska right. There's always a chance you > might get counted as Canada since you're in S. Alaska. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47959	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/29/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???

Oh... I meant to add. I didn't remember that AK's flag had the Big Dipper and the North Star on it. I guess that's because y'all have six months of darkness every year, so y'all see a lot of the Big Dipper and North Star... right \\Steve//? :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so??? Okay I visited, did it count me as an Alaskan? ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > LOL... I know... what a Subject line... but I added two new little > apps to my blog called Flag Counters, one to track visitors from > around the world and the other for just the USA. I'm trying to check > it's accuracy and there is no visit from Alaska yet... and some other > States too but I don't know if I know people in those other States. > > So Amber... go to my blog and reply after you did so I can check the > Flag Counter to see if got Alaska right. There's always a chance you > might get counted as Canada since you're in S. Alaska. LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47960	From: Thomas S	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: spawning siblings

is it wise to spawning sibling together? I have three spawns set up. two males with unrelated females. I want to set one up in reverse. have not found the right male. I have a male that matches from the same spawn. Am not it is wise to use them together. Thanks ps thank you for keeping the posts to the group subject.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47961	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: spawning siblings

When breeding to establish a certain trait or traits, it is perfectly acceptable to breed siblings together. One must do this wisely, because, not only are you combining the genes you wish to have, you are also combining genes for traits that may be deleterious to the subsequent fry. You would wish to develop two or three lines with the desired traits, so that outcrossing is possible to help maintain the vigor of subsequent generations. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Thomas S Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] spawning siblings is it wise to spawning sibling together? I have three spawns set up. two males with unrelated females. I want to set one up in reverse. have not found the right male. I have a male that matches from the same spawn. Am not it is wise to use them together. Thanks ps thank you for keeping the posts to the group subject.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47962	From: Wendie	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: spawning siblings

What in the world do you do with all the babies? I always had a heck of a time getting rid of them. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas S" <tommybill44@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] spawning siblings is it wise to spawning sibling together? I have three spawns set up. two males with unrelated females. I want to set one up in reverse. have not found the right male. I have a male that matches from the same spawn. Am not it is wise to use them together. Thanks ps thank you for keeping the posts to the group subject. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47963	From: mattyobones	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "avinvasion" <avinvasion@...> wrote: > check your temp. most corys like cool tanks, except sterbay cats they can take high temps I keep mine with my discus. lennys right the ph could be to low. since cardinals love warm temps and acidic water. > Hi Steve and others > > The barbels were in good condition. The ph is 7.3 when i last checked it. My filter is cannister and may be my maintenance is not up to the mark-i clean it only once in two months. > I have also not replaced the filter media since the tank was set up in December 2009. > > But since my cardinals are doing well - i am assuming that the water is ok because they are a delicate fish. > > regards > > Avin > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > As Noura has mentioned, we do need to know a bit about your tank and how it > > is set=up, the water parameters, etc. Also, How did the fish look prior to > > death. Were there barbells in good condition or were they worn? Were the > > fins in good shape, what was the condition of the body? The more you can > > tell us, the better we can reply with something that may actually help you. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Avin Deen > > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:12 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying > > > > Hi all > > > > A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it could be > > because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking pellets and > > crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has died. My tetras and > > cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra cambodgeinsis. Could anyone > > help me? > > > > regards > > > > Avin > > > > -------------------------------- > > > > > > Angus Starling-British missionary (Brian McArdie) : > > l've lived in Africa for a year, > > and l don't know what you know. > > How long have you > > been here? > > Col. John Patterson (Val Kilmer) : > > Just about 24 hours. > > But l've been longing > > for this all my life. > > > > in > > The Ghost and the Darkness. > > > > Indian Parakeets > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47964	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???

Lenny, I clicked on your site to make sure Kooky Kalifornia was represented and indeed it was. Surprisingly only 3 people behind your home state. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:16 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so??? LOL... I know... what a Subject line... but I added two new little apps to my blog called Flag Counters, one to track visitors from around the world and the other for just the USA. I'm trying to check it's accuracy and there is no visit from Alaska yet... and some other States too but I don't know if I know people in those other States. So Amber... go to my blog and reply after you did so I can check the Flag Counter to see if got Alaska right. There's always a chance you might get counted as Canada since you're in S. Alaska. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47965	From: melindas	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Tiles as substrate

Would it be ok if I used ceramic tiles (Like you find at home depot) as substrate for the bottom of my African Clawed Frog tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47966	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Tiles as substrate

Are you talking like 6" x 6" or 12" x 12" or something like little small 1" tiles? Glazed or un-glazed finish? The first problem I see with using flooring tiles is that flooring tiles have raised ridges on the bottom of them, for helping to stay glued down better, and you could end up with lots of detritus finding it's way under the tiles and you wouldn't be able to vacuum under them. Now, if you put them down and then sealed the edges and between the tiles with aquarium safe silicone, that might be a viable option. Are you going to make a mosaic on the bottom... they might like this one... ;-) http://adambegleymosaics.com/images/MOSAIC_FROG_LG.JPG But probably not this one... :-O http://adambegleymosaics.com/images/P1010016_LG.JPG I would also test the tiles in a bucket of water for about a week, taking daily tests of pH and hardness levels to see if the tiles might affect the pH if they happen to leach any hardness compounds into the water. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tiles as substrate Would it be ok if I used ceramic tiles (Like you find at home depot) as substrate for the bottom of my African Clawed Frog tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47967	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: New tank question

If I want to set up a new tank (no comments on my MTS please) with gravel from a cycled tank, water from a cycled tank, and even use a filter sponge from a cycled tank, is this new tank likely to have a cycle of its own? I'm thinking no, but just want to be sure. I will be careful not to let the gravel or sponge dry out. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47968	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so???

You're probably way ahead of me since most of them clicks were from me when I was setting it up and doing other blog maintenance. I use CCleaner to manage my cookies and temp internet files so I delete them daily or more often if needed so I was deleting the FlagCounter.com cookie until I realized that was why the count was so high for LA. I now have it moved to the "Keep" section in CCleaner. I still think LA's count is also artificially high since I also have checked out my blog with IE8 and FF on at least two of my computers so I probably added at least 12+ visits for LA by doing that. Now that I have the FlagCounter cookies saved on both of my computers for IE8 and FF, CA and other States should start jumping ahead of me. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 7:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so??? Lenny, I clicked on your site to make sure Kooky Kalifornia was represented and indeed it was. Surprisingly only 3 people behind your home state. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2010 7:16 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Amber, have you been to my blog in the past week or so??? LOL... I know... what a Subject line... but I added two new little apps to my blog called Flag Counters, one to track visitors from around the world and the other for just the USA. I'm trying to check it's accuracy and there is no visit from Alaska yet... and some other States too but I don't know if I know people in those other States. So Amber... go to my blog and reply after you did so I can check the Flag Counter to see if got Alaska right. There's always a chance you might get counted as Canada since you're in S. Alaska. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47969	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Tiles as substrate

I have used 4 inch by 4 inch tiles on the bottom of home made sponge filters without any issues. But then that is one tile, not an entire bottom of a tank. I would follow Lenny's advice about soaking them in a bucket and testing the water. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: melindas <melindaspicer@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2010 5:36 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Tiles as substrate Would it be ok if I used ceramic tiles (Like you find at home depot) as substrate for the bottom of my African Clawed Frog tank?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47970	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: New tank question

You don't really need the water, unless you are moving fish from the tank where that water came from... so they will not have to be acclimated. Very few of the good nitrifying bacteria live in the water column and then they only really show up there during elevated levels of ammonia/nitrite when there might be a bacteria bloom while they are looking for a tank surface area to call home... usually in the filter's media. If using a UGF filter, then the surface area of the gravel would be home to the majority of the N-bacteria. If using any other kind of filter system, the sponge/floss/bio-media,etc. in that filter will be home to the majority of the N-bacteria. So... all that said, if you add enough filter media from one of your cycled filters, to the new tank, you should not have much, if any of an issue with ammonia/nitrite BUT for the first couple of days to a week, you should test the water in both tanks so you'll know if either are going through a mini-cycle. What happens, for example, is that your existing tank will ONLY have enough N-bacteria growing in it to support the amount of ammonia and nitrite that is being created by the current bioload... so when you remove some of the media, the remaining N-bacteria will have start to multiply to build up their colony to handle the bioload. N-bacteria colonies are capable of doubling their size every 24-48 hours so if you only remove 25% of the media from the filter, it shouldn't take more than a day for them to catch up. Same with the new tank, if you add that 25% of media to the new tank and add the fish, if there are enough N-bacteria in the media to handle the new fish bioload, you won't see any kind of ammonia/nitrite issue but if you add a LOT of fish to that tank, then the N-bacteria in that 25% of media might need a day or two or more to grow their colony to the proper size to handle the bioload. I hope that's understandable. I know many fish keepers still get confused about how nitrifying bacteria and the nitrogen cycle works, when it comes to the details. :-P I wasn't even going to mention your Malaysian Trumpet Snails... that is what you meant by MTS... right?? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 7:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank question If I want to set up a new tank (no comments on my MTS please) with gravel from a cycled tank, water from a cycled tank, and even use a filter sponge from a cycled tank, is this new tank likely to have a cycle of its own? I'm thinking no, but just want to be sure. I will be careful not to let the gravel or sponge dry out. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47971	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: spawning siblings

Many breeders have disposal fish the culled fry are fed to. The best live food for a fish is another fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] spawning siblings What in the world do you do with all the babies? I always had a heck of a time getting rid of them. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas S" <tommybill44@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] spawning siblings is it wise to spawning sibling together? I have three spawns set up. two males with unrelated females. I want to set one up in reverse. have not found the right male. I have a male that matches from the same spawn. Am not it is wise to use them together. Thanks ps thank you for keeping the posts to the group subject.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47972	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: New tank question

OK so would I do best to take a small amount of gravel from five tanks rather than a bunch from one? I'm thinking yes. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You don't really need the water, unless you are moving fish from > the tank > where that water came from... so they will not have to be acclimated. > > Very few of the good nitrifying bacteria live in the water column > and then > they only really show up there during elevated levels of ammonia/ > nitrite > when there might be a bacteria bloom while they are looking for a tank > surface area to call home... usually in the filter's media. If > using a UGF > filter, then the surface area of the gravel would be home to the > majority of > the N-bacteria. If using any other kind of filter system, the > sponge/floss/bio-media,etc. in that filter will be home to the > majority of > the N-bacteria. > > So... all that said, if you add enough filter media from one of > your cycled > filters, to the new tank, you should not have much, if any of an > issue with > ammonia/nitrite BUT for the first couple of days to a week, you > should test > the water in both tanks so you'll know if either are going through a > mini-cycle. > > What happens, for example, is that your existing tank will ONLY > have enough > N-bacteria growing in it to support the amount of ammonia and > nitrite that > is being created by the current bioload... so when you remove some > of the > media, the remaining N-bacteria will have start to multiply to > build up > their colony to handle the bioload. N-bacteria colonies are capable of > doubling their size every 24-48 hours so if you only remove 25% of > the media > from the filter, it shouldn't take more than a day for them to > catch up. > > Same with the new tank, if you add that 25% of media to the new > tank and add > the fish, if there are enough N-bacteria in the media to handle the > new fish > bioload, you won't see any kind of ammonia/nitrite issue but if you > add a > LOT of fish to that tank, then the N-bacteria in that 25% of media > might > need a day or two or more to grow their colony to the proper size > to handle > the bioload. > > I hope that's understandable. I know many fish keepers still get > confused > about how nitrifying bacteria and the nitrogen cycle works, when it > comes to > the details. :-P > > I wasn't even going to mention your Malaysian Trumpet Snails... > that is what > you meant by MTS... right?? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 7:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank question > > If I want to set up a new tank (no comments on my MTS please) with > gravel > from a cycled tank, water from a cycled tank, and even use a filter > sponge > from a cycled tank, is this new tank likely to have a cycle of its > own? I'm > thinking no, but just want to be sure. > > I will be careful not to let the gravel or sponge dry out. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47973	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: New tank question

That could work... but there's a downside to that also. While all five tanks are healthy to their existing habitants, there's always a chance that you do have a pathogen in the tank that the fish inhabiting that tank have developed an immunity or resistance to. By using five different fish tanks media, you increase the odds (by 5X) of introducing a pathogen into the new fish tank that the new fish will have issues with. Are you planning on adding a full sized adult fish bioload to the new tank on day one... or adding baby/juvi fish that will grow into the new tank? If baby/juvi fish, then using only a small percentage of media from your healthiest tank should suffice for them and you shouldn't see any issues and you would then only have a 1 in 5 chance of introducing a new pathogen that the new fish might have an issue with. Also, you mentioned gravel again. Unless you have UGF (Under Gravel Filters) in your five tanks, the gravel is NOT the best source of nitrifying bacteria. Let me ask you this... do you have any tanks where you have an extra filter system running on it? If you do (I keep a small HOB running all the time on my bigger tank) and you ever need to set up a Q-tank or H-tank, you can just fill up the tank, add a couple of decorations (for hiding places for the fish) and the extra HOB to the tank and it's ready to go. It can also be used on a newly set up full sized tank, along with that tank's new filter system and run both for a month or so until he new tank's filter grows it's own N-bacteria colony. Of course, squeezing some filter juice into the new filter's reservoir will jump start the N-bacteria growing in the new filter system, but still run both for a month and then either leave the small HOB on that tank or move it back to another tank (after cleaning it first!). Now you see why Dr. Tim's One And Only (live Nitrifying bacteria) http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com is a good way to go when money is no object or you're pressed for time... or fishless cycling a new tank when money is an issue or you have more time. Using either of these methods will get a new tank fully cycled without the possible transfer of any pathogens to the newly introduced and already stressed out fish. Here's Dr. Tim's article on Fishless Cycling with his product compared to using plain ammonia or other methods. I need to add this link to my A to Z page section about Fishless Cycling. http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/fishless/fishless.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New tank question OK so would I do best to take a small amount of gravel from five tanks rather than a bunch from one? I'm thinking yes. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:21 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You don't really need the water, unless you are moving fish from the > tank where that water came from... so they will not have to be > acclimated. > > Very few of the good nitrifying bacteria live in the water column and > then they only really show up there during elevated levels of ammonia/ > nitrite when there might be a bacteria bloom while they are looking > for a tank surface area to call home... usually in the filter's media. > If using a UGF filter, then the surface area of the gravel would be > home to the majority of the N-bacteria. If using any other kind of > filter system, the sponge/floss/bio-media,etc. in that filter will be > home to the majority of the N-bacteria. > > So... all that said, if you add enough filter media from one of your > cycled filters, to the new tank, you should not have much, if any of > an issue with ammonia/nitrite BUT for the first couple of days to a > week, you should test the water in both tanks so you'll know if either > are going through a mini-cycle. > > What happens, for example, is that your existing tank will ONLY have > enough N-bacteria growing in it to support the amount of ammonia and > nitrite that is being created by the current bioload... so when you > remove some of the media, the remaining N-bacteria will have start to > multiply to build up their colony to handle the bioload. N-bacteria > colonies are capable of doubling their size every 24-48 hours so if > you only remove 25% of the media from the filter, it shouldn't take > more than a day for them to catch up. > > Same with the new tank, if you add that 25% of media to the new tank > and add the fish, if there are enough N-bacteria in the media to > handle the new fish bioload, you won't see any kind of ammonia/nitrite > issue but if you add a LOT of fish to that tank, then the N-bacteria > in that 25% of media might need a day or two or more to grow their > colony to the proper size to handle the bioload. > > I hope that's understandable. I know many fish keepers still get > confused about how nitrifying bacteria and the nitrogen cycle works, > when it comes to the details. :-P > > I wasn't even going to mention your Malaysian Trumpet Snails... > that is what > you meant by MTS... right?? LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 7:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank question > > If I want to set up a new tank (no comments on my MTS please) with > gravel from a cycled tank, water from a cycled tank, and even use a > filter sponge from a cycled tank, is this new tank likely to have a > cycle of its own? I'm thinking no, but just want to be sure. > > I will be careful not to let the gravel or sponge dry out. > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47974	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: OT: Friday Funny

2 Goldfish are in a tank, one says to the other, "You man the guns - I'll drive"... \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47975	From: melindas	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Tiles as substrate

I was planning on using 4x4 tiles and just making sure they are really close together so nothing can get under them.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47976	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: OT: Friday Funny

Funny! Just added it to the Fish Jokes & Cartoons page on my blog. http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Jokes FOR http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/02/fish-jokes-some-may-be-pg-or-r-rated.h tml And if one of them goldfish is an Oranda with a Green Wen, it might resemble this memorable photo... LOL http://tinyurl.com/2g2h26j FOR http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/news/lone_republican/wp-content/uploads/20 09/09/dukakis-in-the-tank.jpg OR http://ridgewine.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/dukakis-tank-7179051.jpg Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Friday Funny 2 Goldfish are in a tank, one says to the other, "You man the guns - I'll drive"... \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47977	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 4/30/2010
Subject: Re: Tiles as substrate

Stuff WILL get under them over time, if you do not seal the seams between the tiles and around the edges. Over time this detritus will decay and build up as mulm which will provide a home for BAD anaerobic bacteria that put out toxic gases. This is also why we vacuum gravel on a regular basis as this can also happen in the bottom of gravel that isn't vacuumed on a regular basis... preferably weekly in a non-planted tank. A planted tank gives you a larger margin of error since the plant roots will be aerating the substrate for the most part. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tiles as substrate I was planning on using 4x4 tiles and just making sure they are really close together so nothing can get under them.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47978	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: New tank question

Lainey, Unless you are feeding the bacteria from the time you add the materials likely to contain the nitrifying bacteria to the time the fish are added. If the fish are added within 24 hours, you'll have no problem, other than, maybe, a brief mini-cycle while the bacteria adjust to the load. If you are going to have the tank stand for a few days, it would be wise to add an ammonia source, either a few drops of ammonia, or something that will produce ammonia, to the tank to feed the bacteria. A mini cycle will generally last a few days to a week, and show slightly elevated levels of ammonia and nitrites during that period, but, generally not high enough to really do any harm to the fish, unless they are a species that is overly sensitive to nitrogenous wastes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New tank question If I want to set up a new tank (no comments on my MTS please) with gravel from a cycled tank, water from a cycled tank, and even use a filter sponge from a cycled tank, is this new tank likely to have a cycle of its own? I'm thinking no, but just want to be sure. I will be careful not to let the gravel or sponge dry out. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47979	From: avinvasion	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Cories dying

Thanks for those inputs... I Just cleaned my filter today- there was plenty of muck in it. I will do my best to clean my filter at least once every two weeks. My cories are the common albino variety -probably the bronze cory may be some other albino as i don't know how to distinguish between an albino bronze an albino pepper and albino sterbai-they all look the same. Avin --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mattyobones" <mattyobones@...> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "avinvasion" <avinvasion@> wrote: > > > check your temp. most corys like cool tanks, except sterbay cats they can take high temps I keep mine with my discus. lennys right the ph could be to low. since cardinals love warm temps and acidic water. > > > > > > Hi Steve and others > > > > The barbels were in good condition. The ph is 7.3 when i last checked it. My filter is cannister and may be my maintenance is not up to the mark-i clean it only once in two months. > > I have also not replaced the filter media since the tank was set up in December 2009. > > > > But since my cardinals are doing well - i am assuming that the water is ok because they are a delicate fish. > > > > regards > > > > Avin > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > As Noura has mentioned, we do need to know a bit about your tank and how it > > > is set=up, the water parameters, etc. Also, How did the fish look prior to > > > death. Were there barbells in good condition or were they worn? Were the > > > fins in good shape, what was the condition of the body? The more you can > > > tell us, the better we can reply with something that may actually help you. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Avin Deen > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:12 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cories dying > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > A couple of my cories have died in the last 4 days. I suspected it could be > > > because of starvation and started feeding them more sinking pellets and > > > crushed boiled peas but despite that a second one has died. My tetras and > > > cherry barbs are doing fine as is the lone garra cambodgeinsis. Could anyone > > > help me? > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Avin > > > > > > -------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > Angus Starling-British missionary (Brian McArdie) : > > > l've lived in Africa for a year, > > > and l don't know what you know. > > > How long have you > > > been here? > > > Col. John Patterson (Val Kilmer) : > > > Just about 24 hours. > > > But l've been longing > > > for this all my life. > > > > > > in > > > The Ghost and the Darkness. > > > > > > Indian Parakeets > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47980	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Lighting question

...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old tanks:) current question: How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure out how much you need comparatively? Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? Thanks as always... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47981	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Look at the Lumens. That is the actual measurement of "light" as we see it. The next major factor to consider is the Kelvin (K) rating to make sure the "light" is the best color spectrum for the purpose intended, in this case, aquatic plants. Watts is old school and simply not a reliable comparison factor when comparing different types of light bulbs since watts is the amount of electricity the bulb uses to work... but as we know, a 60W incandescent bulb isn't going to put nearly as much light (lumens) as a 60W Fluorescent bulb, which will put out even less light than a 60W CFL (Compact Fluorescent Light bulb), etc.. There can even be a BIG difference in the Lumen output between two 60W fluorescent tubes or any other type of bulb, depending on the Kelvin rating and other enhancements, usually coatings, used by the manufacturer of the bulbs. Reflectors above the bulbs also increase the amount of Lumens going down into the water, just like a Halogen (spotlight) type bulb will pierce down into a deep tank better than a normal fluorescent tube. Technically, as you see, there are many factors to consider but the lumen output will give you the simplest baseline to use. The downside is I do not know of a simple chart that tells you how many lumens you would need for which size tank. Hopefully, someone is working on something relatively simple that would give various tank sizes and depths and then the amount of Lumens needed for very easy, easy, moderate and difficult plants. It took me a couple of months with input from hundreds of people to come up with my "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon, Fish Killing Rule" http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule FOR http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html If you have a tank you are happy with, that has CFL's, check the total Lumen output and Kelvin range of those light bulbs and that would give you a guideline of how many Lumens and Kelvin rating you need with the T5's. For more details, here's a rather lengthy but informative article about aquarium lighting. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html I don't frequent the Planted Tank forums very often and I know you do so let me know if anyone over there is trying to create a think-tank thread on an attempt to come up with a simpler set of guidelines to replace the Watts Per Gallon rule that doesn't work any longer. I'd definitely participate in that forum thread. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old tanks:) current question: How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure out how much you need comparatively? Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? Thanks as always... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47982	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Thanks, Lenny, I'm forwarding this to John since I am a flub with technology and he has to figure it out for me. I will tell you that at the "lighting" thread at Planted Tank there is quite a bit of information on this topic. Not that I understand it, but you might:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 1, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I don't frequent the Planted Tank forums very often and I know you > do so let > me know if anyone over there is trying to create a think-tank > thread on an > attempt to come up with a simpler set of guidelines to replace the > Watts Per > Gallon rule that doesn't work any longer. I'd definitely > participate in > that forum thread. ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47983	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Lainey, T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is labeled as a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I also have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, though, but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any real information for or against that claim. As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a measurement of light output. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old tanks:) current question: How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure out how much you need comparatively? Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? Thanks as always... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47984	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Can you guys explain how to determine the lumens? We don't seem to know how. Is it written on the bulbs? We have the K rating, but don't know how to do the lumens:) Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 1, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may > look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is labeled > as a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I > also have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, > though, but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any > real information for or against that claim. > > As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a measurement > of light output. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old > tanks:) > > current question: > > How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per > gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure > out how much you need comparatively? > > Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but > you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? > > Thanks as always... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47985	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Lainey, You can find the lumens on the packaging, and if it is not present there, look the bulb up on the manufacturer's site where it should be listed in the specs of the bulb. Presuming you have the bulb in your possession and a light meter on hand, you can determine lumens and lux. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question Can you guys explain how to determine the lumens? We don't seem to know how. Is it written on the bulbs? We have the K rating, but don't know how to do the lumens:) Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 1, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may > look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is labeled > as a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I > also have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, > though, but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any > real information for or against that claim. > > As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a measurement > of light output. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old > tanks:) > > current question: > > How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per > gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure > out how much you need comparatively? > > Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but > you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? > > Thanks as always... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47986	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

We no longer have the packaging, we don't have lumen meters or light meters, and we just spent an hour trying to find this information online. For some reason we just can't get it. The light we are trying to determine the lumens of is: Coralife aqualight 96 watt 6700k quad light (one bulb four sections or bulblets) square pin If we knew the lumens of this light, we could determine the lumens needed for the T5 or whatever. Maybe. All Coralife says is "high lumens". Is this totally obvious and we are just staring right at it somehow? Thanks thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 1, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > You can find the lumens on the packaging, and if it is not present > there, look the bulb up on the manufacturer's site where it should > be listed in the specs of the bulb. Presuming you have the bulb in > your possession and a light meter on hand, you can determine lumens > and lux. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > Can you guys explain how to determine the lumens? We don't seem to > know how. Is it written on the bulbs? We have the K rating, but > don't know how to do the lumens:) > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 1, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may > > look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is labeled > > as a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I > > also have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, > > though, but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any > > real information for or against that claim. > > > > As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a measurement > > of light output. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > > > ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old > > tanks:) > > > > current question: > > > > How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per > > gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure > > out how much you need comparatively? > > > > Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but > > you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? > > > > Thanks as always... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47987	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Lumens are one of the specs on most light bulb packaging nowadays. Some bulbs have it printed on the actual bulb but if not, there should be something like the manufacturer and a bulb code and then you could look up that info to find out the specs on the bulb. If you have nothing to identify the bulb, then unless you find out the info, I couldn't tell you how to figure it out except you could get an underwater light meter which would measure the lumen level at various depths. This meter is probably overkill for most fish/plant keepers. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 9:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question Can you guys explain how to determine the lumens? We don't seem to know how. Is it written on the bulbs? We have the K rating, but don't know how to do the lumens:) Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 1, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may > look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is labeled as > a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I also > have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, though, > but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any real > information for or against that claim. > > As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a measurement of > light output. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old > tanks:) > > current question: > > How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per > gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure > out how much you need comparatively? > > Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but > you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? > > Thanks as always... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47988	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Do you know how many watts or the actual length of the bulb? Are there any product numbers or any kind of numbers printed on the bulb... they will usually be on one end of the glass tube or on the base for CFL's. Based on the info you gave, I found this... is this yours? A 20" long 4-interconnected tube bulb? I'm not sure what you mean by bulblets. LOL http://www.google.com/products/catalog?oe=UTF-8&q=coralife+aqualight&um=1&ie =UTF-8&cid=13470089843287114128&ei=1A_dS8n-GpKI8wSo7_iVBw&sa=X&oi=product_ca talog_result&ct=image&resnum=4&ved=0CCQQ8gIwAw# http://tinyurl.com/259eq26 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question We no longer have the packaging, we don't have lumen meters or light meters, and we just spent an hour trying to find this information online. For some reason we just can't get it. The light we are trying to determine the lumens of is: Coralife aqualight 96 watt 6700k quad light (one bulb four sections or bulblets) square pin If we knew the lumens of this light, we could determine the lumens needed for the T5 or whatever. Maybe. All Coralife says is "high lumens". Is this totally obvious and we are just staring right at it somehow? Thanks thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 1, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > You can find the lumens on the packaging, and if it is not present > there, look the bulb up on the manufacturer's site where it should be > listed in the specs of the bulb. Presuming you have the bulb in your > possession and a light meter on hand, you can determine lumens and > lux. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > Can you guys explain how to determine the lumens? We don't seem to > know how. Is it written on the bulbs? We have the K rating, but don't > know how to do the lumens:) > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 1, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may > > look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is labeled > > as a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I > > also have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, > > though, but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any > > real information for or against that claim. > > > > As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a measurement > > of light output. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > > > ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old > > tanks:) > > > > current question: > > > > How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per > > gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure > > out how much you need comparatively? > > > > Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but > > you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? > > > > Thanks as always... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47989	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/1/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

You may want to contact Coralife directly. Are your bulbs the ones with all four interconnected tubes being white or do you have two white and two actinic? I see both types online. The previous link I sent you and now this one on the Coralife site. http://www.coralifeaqualight.com/20-saltwater-quad-power-compact.php http://www.coralifeaqualight.com/20-freshwater-quad-power-compact.php I don't see a way to contact Coralife on their website so I did a Google for - contact coralife - and found this thread on PleantedTank.net... but the OP doesn't look like they found a way. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/96963-how-do-i-contact-coralife. html This next website has some info (which appears to be the best info based on other sites I looked at)... http://www.marineandreef.com/Articles.asp?ID=125 Coralife (aka Central Aquatics & Energy Saver Unlimited) Web site: www.oceanicsystems.com Tel: 800.255.4527 Tech Support Email: rmoneyhan@... Tech Support Email: bwoodruff@... Warranty Email: nsranske@... Address: 910 E. Sandhill Ave. Carson, CA 90746 This thread has some other info... http://www.tcmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6760 mainly leading to... http://www.oceanicsystems.com/contact/ Good luck... it looks like Coralife might have gone through a few owners in recent years but it seems like the block of text with the telephone number and a couple of email addresses might be your best bet. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question We no longer have the packaging, we don't have lumen meters or light meters, and we just spent an hour trying to find this information online. For some reason we just can't get it. The light we are trying to determine the lumens of is: Coralife aqualight 96 watt 6700k quad light (one bulb four sections or bulblets) square pin If we knew the lumens of this light, we could determine the lumens needed for the T5 or whatever. Maybe. All Coralife says is "high lumens". Is this totally obvious and we are just staring right at it somehow? Thanks thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 1, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > You can find the lumens on the packaging, and if it is not present > there, look the bulb up on the manufacturer's site where it should be > listed in the specs of the bulb. Presuming you have the bulb in your > possession and a light meter on hand, you can determine lumens and > lux. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > Can you guys explain how to determine the lumens? We don't seem to > know how. Is it written on the bulbs? We have the K rating, but don't > know how to do the lumens:) > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 1, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may > > look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is labeled > > as a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I > > also have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, > > though, but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any > > real information for or against that claim. > > > > As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a measurement > > of light output. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > > > ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old > > tanks:) > > > > current question: > > > > How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per > > gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure > > out how much you need comparatively? > > > > Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but > > you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? > > > > Thanks as always... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47990	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Lenny, Coralife appears to be a brand name, not a company name. The website you reference is owned by Twin Cities Aquadesign. I would suspect that Oceanic might be a suitable culprit for the brand. The lights are probably packaged from one of the few makers to show the Coralife brand. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 2:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lighting question You may want to contact Coralife directly. Are your bulbs the ones with all four interconnected tubes being white or do you have two white and two actinic? I see both types online. The previous link I sent you and now this one on the Coralife site. http://www.coralifeaqualight.com/20-saltwater-quad-power-compact.php http://www.coralifeaqualight.com/20-freshwater-quad-power-compact.php I don't see a way to contact Coralife on their website so I did a Google for - contact coralife - and found this thread on PleantedTank.net... but the OP doesn't look like they found a way. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/96963-how-do-i-contact-coralife. html This next website has some info (which appears to be the best info based on other sites I looked at)... http://www.marineandreef.com/Articles.asp?ID=125 Coralife (aka Central Aquatics & Energy Saver Unlimited) Web site: www.oceanicsystems.com Tel: 800.255.4527 Tech Support Email: rmoneyhan@... Tech Support Email: bwoodruff@... Warranty Email: nsranske@... Address: 910 E. Sandhill Ave. Carson, CA 90746 This thread has some other info... http://www.tcmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6760 mainly leading to... http://www.oceanicsystems.com/contact/ Good luck... it looks like Coralife might have gone through a few owners in recent years but it seems like the block of text with the telephone number and a couple of email addresses might be your best bet. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question We no longer have the packaging, we don't have lumen meters or light meters, and we just spent an hour trying to find this information online. For some reason we just can't get it. The light we are trying to determine the lumens of is: Coralife aqualight 96 watt 6700k quad light (one bulb four sections or bulblets) square pin If we knew the lumens of this light, we could determine the lumens needed for the T5 or whatever. Maybe. All Coralife says is "high lumens". Is this totally obvious and we are just staring right at it somehow? Thanks thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 1, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > You can find the lumens on the packaging, and if it is not present > there, look the bulb up on the manufacturer's site where it should be > listed in the specs of the bulb. Presuming you have the bulb in your > possession and a light meter on hand, you can determine lumens and > lux. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > Can you guys explain how to determine the lumens? We don't seem to > know how. Is it written on the bulbs? We have the K rating, but don't > know how to do the lumens:) > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 1, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may > > look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is labeled > > as a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I > > also have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, > > though, but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any > > real information for or against that claim. > > > > As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a measurement > > of light output. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > > > ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old > > tanks:) > > > > current question: > > > > How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per > > gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure > > out how much you need comparatively? > > > > Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but > > you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? > > > > Thanks as always... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47991	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

See my note to Lenny posted a minute or two earlier. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 11:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question We no longer have the packaging, we don't have lumen meters or light meters, and we just spent an hour trying to find this information online. For some reason we just can't get it. The light we are trying to determine the lumens of is: Coralife aqualight 96 watt 6700k quad light (one bulb four sections or bulblets) square pin If we knew the lumens of this light, we could determine the lumens needed for the T5 or whatever. Maybe. All Coralife says is "high lumens". Is this totally obvious and we are just staring right at it somehow? Thanks thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 1, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > You can find the lumens on the packaging, and if it is not present > there, look the bulb up on the manufacturer's site where it should > be listed in the specs of the bulb. Presuming you have the bulb in > your possession and a light meter on hand, you can determine lumens > and lux. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > Can you guys explain how to determine the lumens? We don't seem to > know how. Is it written on the bulbs? We have the K rating, but > don't know how to do the lumens:) > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 1, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may > > look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is labeled > > as a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I > > also have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, > > though, but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any > > real information for or against that claim. > > > > As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a measurement > > of light output. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > > > ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my old > > tanks:) > > > > current question: > > > > How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts per > > gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you figure > > out how much you need comparatively? > > > > Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, but > > you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? > > > > Thanks as always... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47992	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Lainey, Your 96 Watt Coralife 6700K Quad Compact Fluorescent bulb is made by Pet Mountain. As \\Steve// mentions, Oceanic is another one of their lines. You haven't said what type of compact fluorescent bulb you have, nor what the length of it is. Pet Mountain lists it as a "Daylight" type bulb (as would be appropriate for this "K" rating), and they give the length as 34" -- possibly (assumedly) measured as the length of the tube doubled back on itself . They can be reached at their PR Dep't number -- 1-888-373-8686. Their website address is < www.PetMountain.com >. There's a provision on the website to fill out a question to send to them -- which I've already done, asking for the lumens of this bulb (their Model # 54094). Drs Foster & Smith list the same bulb under their heading -- "Compact Fluorescent 96 Watt Quad Bulbs," as Coralife - 17" PC Quad Lamp 6700K, their catalog number -- AKD-21152. Oddly, they list it as a 17" bulb, probably measured as the length of the unit only, not considering its doubled length. I'll post the lumens when I receive them, or you can phone them for quicker results (if they're available on Sundays). You could also try calling the "Drs" for this info at 1-800--443-1160. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47993	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Aquatic Plants and the Nitrogen Cycle

An interesting article by Dr. Tim Hovanec originally published in Aquarium Frontiers, Nov. 1997. http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Library_Presentations/Freshwater/assets/Aquati c%20Plants%20and%20the%20Nitrogen%20Cycle.pdf http://tinyurl.com/2ejckef This article explains what may be happening in your substrate if you have a planted tank. If he is watching the forum still, perhaps Dr. Hovanec will make and additions that may have come about while following up on this line of research in the intervening years since publication. I found this article by way of the pdfgenie.com site I had mentioned here a while back. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47994	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: [Practical Fishkeeping] Can Fish Be Vaccinated Against Whitespot?

Whitespot is better known to us Americans as Ich. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2758&utm_source=PFK_ne wsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=April_29_2010 http://tinyurl.com/2cb32oa \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47995	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Hmmm, the bulb length is 17 inches, not 34, oh well, I'll have to call. The entire light fixture is only 20 inches, so the 34 must be another light. Thanks very much. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 2, 2010, at 8:59 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Your 96 Watt Coralife 6700K Quad Compact Fluorescent bulb > is made > by Pet Mountain. As \\Steve// mentions, Oceanic is another one of > their > lines. You haven't said what type of compact fluorescent bulb you > have, nor > what the length of it is. Pet Mountain lists it as a "Daylight" > type bulb (as > would be appropriate for this "K" rating), and they give the length > as 34" > -- possibly (assumedly) measured as the length of the tube doubled > back on > itself . > > They can be reached at their PR Dep't number -- 1-888-373-8686. Their > website address is < www.PetMountain.com >. There's a provision on > the website > to fill out a question to send to them -- which I've already done, > asking > for the lumens of this bulb (their Model # 54094). > > Drs Foster & Smith list the same bulb under their heading -- "Compact > Fluorescent 96 Watt Quad Bulbs," as Coralife - 17" PC Quad Lamp > 6700K, their > catalog number -- AKD-21152. Oddly, they list it as a 17" bulb, > probably > measured as the length of the unit only, not considering its > doubled length. I'll > post the lumens when I receive them, or you can phone them for quicker > results (if they're available on Sundays). You could also try > calling the "Drs" > for this info at 1-800--443-1160. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47996	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

This is the exact light I have: http://www.coralifeaqualight.com/20- freshwater-quad-power-compact.php But no mention about lumens, so obviously I have to call. TY Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 2, 2010, at 2:01 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > You may want to contact Coralife directly. > > Are your bulbs the ones with all four interconnected tubes being > white or do > you have two white and two actinic? I see both types online. The > previous > link I sent you and now this one on the Coralife site. > > http://www.coralifeaqualight.com/20-saltwater-quad-power-compact.php > > http://www.coralifeaqualight.com/20-freshwater-quad-power-compact.php > > I don't see a way to contact Coralife on their website so I did a > Google for > - contact coralife - and found this thread on PleantedTank.net... > but the > OP doesn't look like they found a way. > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/96963-how-do-i-contact- > coralife. > html > > This next website has some info (which appears to be the best info > based on > other sites I looked at)... > > http://www.marineandreef.com/Articles.asp?ID=125 > > Coralife (aka Central Aquatics & Energy Saver Unlimited) > Web site: www.oceanicsystems.com > Tel: 800.255.4527 > Tech Support Email: rmoneyhan@... > Tech Support Email: bwoodruff@... > Warranty Email: nsranske@... > Address: > 910 E. Sandhill Ave. > Carson, CA 90746 > > This thread has some other info... > > http://www.tcmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6760 > > mainly leading to... > > http://www.oceanicsystems.com/contact/ > > Good luck... it looks like Coralife might have gone through a few > owners in > recent years but it seems like the block of text with the telephone > number > and a couple of email addresses might be your best bet. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:34 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > We no longer have the packaging, we don't have lumen meters or > light meters, > and we just spent an hour trying to find this information online. > For some > reason we just can't get it. > > The light we are trying to determine the lumens of is: > > Coralife aqualight > 96 watt > 6700k > quad light (one bulb four sections or bulblets) square pin > > If we knew the lumens of this light, we could determine the lumens > needed > for the T5 or whatever. Maybe. > > All Coralife says is "high lumens". > > Is this totally obvious and we are just staring right at it somehow? > > Thanks thanks. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 1, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > Lainey, > > > > You can find the lumens on the packaging, and if it is not present > > there, look the bulb up on the manufacturer's site where it > should be > > listed in the specs of the bulb. Presuming you have the bulb in your > > possession and a light meter on hand, you can determine lumens and > > lux. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 10:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > > > Can you guys explain how to determine the lumens? We don't seem to > > know how. Is it written on the bulbs? We have the K rating, but > don't > > know how to do the lumens:) > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On May 1, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > Lainey, > > > > > > T5, T8 & T12 are just size variations on the same bulb. The T5 may > > > look brighter because of its smaller diameter. Unless it is > labeled > > > as a HO or VHO bulb, it will put out the same amount of light. I > > > also have heard that the T5's do not last as long as the others, > > > though, but this is just anecdotal information, I've not seen any > > > real information for or against that claim. > > > > > > As Lenny mentions, you need to go by lumens, which is a > measurement > > > of light output. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 8:53 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > > > > > ...still figuring out about my new tank situation as well as my > old > > > tanks:) > > > > > > current question: > > > > > > How does T5 light compare to CFL in terms of intensity of watts > per > > > gallon? T5 is stronger, right? How much stronger? How do you > figure > > > out how much you need comparatively? > > > > > > Say you want to do the equivalent intensity of four WPG of CFL, > but > > > you want to achieve that with a T5? Would the T5 be like 2 WPG? > > > > > > Thanks as always... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47997	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: [Practical Fishkeeping] Can Fish Be Vaccinated Against Whitespot

\\Steve//, Does that picture look like a misrepresentation of Ich to you? It does to me. The spot on the dorsal and tail fin seem to be larger than a typical Ich "white spot". Of course, it could be because the picture is enlarged many times over true size. I hope this type of photo doesn't cause some to misdiagnose it. That article also purports it as a *fact* that fish become immune to Ich after they've had it one time and I thought that was only a theory. I haven't seen any kind of scientific articles showing where this theory was ever proven... have you? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] [Practical Fishkeeping] Can Fish Be Vaccinated Against Whitespot? Whitespot is better known to us Americans as Ich. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2758&utm_source=PFK_ne wsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=April_29_2010 http://tinyurl.com/2cb32oa \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47998	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: [Practical Fishkeeping] Can Fish Be Vaccinated Against Whitespot

Lenny, I'd say the photo was blown up to 3x the actual size, at least. That would account for you thinking the spot was a lot larger than it should be. To a casual reader, it would indeed give the wrong impression about the size of the cyst. I have seen fish who have been through one infection of the parasite seemingly be immune to another onslaught later. Whether they have developed immunity or not would be open to question as they could have simply been healthier at the time. Just as I have seen some fish not be infected with a primary infection, while other fish in the tank are covered with cysts. Did the fish have a natural immunity or was it just healthier and stronger than the others? I do wish they had given some references in the article or in a sidebar to the article. Nevertheless, it is an interesting line of thought. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] [Practical Fishkeeping] Can Fish Be Vaccinated Against Whitespot? \\Steve//, Does that picture look like a misrepresentation of Ich to you? It does to me. The spot on the dorsal and tail fin seem to be larger than a typical Ich "white spot". Of course, it could be because the picture is enlarged many times over true size. I hope this type of photo doesn't cause some to misdiagnose it. That article also purports it as a *fact* that fish become immune to Ich after they've had it one time and I thought that was only a theory. I haven't seen any kind of scientific articles showing where this theory was ever proven... have you? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] [Practical Fishkeeping] Can Fish Be Vaccinated Against Whitespot? Whitespot is better known to us Americans as Ich. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2758&utm_source=PFK_ne wsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=April_29_2010 http://tinyurl.com/2cb32oa \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 47999	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Planted tank guide

Hi Everyone - Planted Tank forum (www.plantedtank.net) just published a planted tank guide that looks really professional and extremely informative. I have not read all of it, as it only came out today online, but I have skimmed and read many parts, and it's certainly as informative as a well-researched book. Looks like cutting edge information. Also, there are links to the most informative threads at the planted tank forum. I feel like a kid in a candy store! Drawback: it's $20. I'm weeding through the lighting section now - pretty dense. To buy this guide, go to the website above and you will see a link for the guide at the top of the page. Best wishes, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48000	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Planted tank guide

Ahhh... I got their email too, earlier today, and it was kind of misleading... as if this guide was a free online guide. I was even going to add the link to my blog once I checked it out. Did you buy it or just previewing it? When I clicked the link, the only two sections available for preview were the Table of Contents and the Algae section but even the Algae section preview is only two pages and only a partial preview. Presuming you bought it, I'm glad you're happy with it so far. Is there a simple lighting chart based on Lumens, Tank Sizes, Depths and Easy/Moderate/Hard-to-grow Plants? Lets us know and we can figure out how to copy that section.... before anyone else does. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Planted tank guide Hi Everyone - Planted Tank forum (www.plantedtank.net) just published a planted tank guide that looks really professional and extremely informative. I have not read all of it, as it only came out today online, but I have skimmed and read many parts, and it's certainly as informative as a well-researched book. Looks like cutting edge information. Also, there are links to the most informative threads at the planted tank forum. I feel like a kid in a candy store! Drawback: it's $20. I'm weeding through the lighting section now - pretty dense. To buy this guide, go to the website above and you will see a link for the guide at the top of the page. Best wishes, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48001	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Lainey, If you go back to what I wrote, you'll see that the 34" is the measure of the light bulb doubled up on itself. It's actually 17" long physically, but when the both sides plus the loop at one end is measured as one continuous tube, it comes out to double the 17" (the tube appears as two side-by-side joined tubes, each 17" long X 2). These bulbs by both sources are what you have -- Pet Mountain and Drs Foster & Smith.. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48002	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: Planted tank guide

Um, simple? Not really. It is very in depth, and tells you which lights do what for each size tank with various gallon sizes and shapes and so forth. It's one of those things where you have to spend some time on it to benefit. But I highly recommend this publication - it's fantastic! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 2, 2010, at 6:02 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Presuming you bought it, I'm glad you're happy with it so far. Is > there a > simple lighting chart based on Lumens, Tank Sizes, Depths and > Easy/Moderate/Hard-to-grow Plants? Lets us know and we can figure > out how > to copy that section.... before anyone else does. ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48003	From: Stephanie	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: new member intro & filter system question

Hi all, I want to introduce myself and tell you a little about me. I'm 25 (until the 16th!) and I live in Florida, married with 2 toddlers, a business owner, going to school, I LOVE gardening as organically as possible, I also occasionally breed American Pit Bull Terriers, and now I'm diving back into my 55 gal tank that's been sitting in storage for about 3 yrs. I'd like to have a variety of community fish. My 1st question is : I have an undergravel filter system. I did some reading on different filter systems and what they do. Do I need a power filter to go along with it? Or possibly something else?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48004	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/2/2010
Subject: Re: new member intro & filter system question

Are you planning on or thinking about having live plants this time around? As a general rule, folks often do their first tank with fake plants, various colored gravel and funny decorations (castles, treasure chests, mermaids, etc.) but, as they *mature* in the hobby, go with more natural looking tanks with natural colored gravel, like pea gravel, have live plants and rocks or driftwood as decorations. If you are leaning towards a more natural looking tank, then you may not want to use the UGF (under gravel filter) at all or you would have to modify it... or at least know the ups and downs of the setup when used with live plants... which we can discuss once we know your intentions. How is your UGF powered... by air line or by a powerhead(s)? I'm presuming you have two lift tubes... or do you have only one... or more than two? I have a couple of free online tutorials listed on my blog's page, "A to Z of Fish Keeping..." and it would be a good idea to take one or both of them as they will walk you through all of the basics and even go over filtration again to give you more food for thought. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-training.h tml http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping Also pay attention to "The Nitrogen Cycle" (and Fishless Cycling) and my article/blog on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning Recommendations" since those are two of the most common newbie mistakes. Oh yeah... welcome to the group! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephanie Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new member intro & filter system question Hi all, I want to introduce myself and tell you a little about me. I'm 25 (until the 16th!) and I live in Florida, married with 2 toddlers, a business owner, going to school, I LOVE gardening as organically as possible, I also occasionally breed American Pit Bull Terriers, and now I'm diving back into my 55 gal tank that's been sitting in storage for about 3 yrs. I'd like to have a variety of community fish. My 1st question is : I have an undergravel filter system. I did some reading on different filter systems and what they do. Do I need a power filter to go along with it? Or possibly something else?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48005	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/3/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

The various companies make the same bulb in different lengths for people with longer tanks, they come in the basically the length meant for that sized tank. For instance my fixture (which has coralife bulbs in it) is roughly 4 feet long, but it has 2 bulbs on either side. I'm guessing that a 34" bulb would be designed for a fixture for a very large tank (like 125 gallons, 6 feet long or bigger), the light fixtures I was looking at getting (to replace the hood on my 125 gallon tank that I hate, lol) were 6 feet long for the fixture, but the bulbs were 34" long (again double bulbs on each side like the fixture I have for my 55 gallon tank). But I could see them having specialty fixtures that have odd sized bulbs, I would not get one of those myself, as it'd be hard to replace the bulbs. I've also found there's a big price different between the square pin and straight pin CFL bulbs as well (I can't remember which is cheaper off the top of my head), but I know that the bulbs I get for my 125 gallon tank are nice and cheap, but the bulbs on my 55 gallon are twice the price :( Same brand, just different pin settings, LOL. My bulbs in my fixture for my 55 gallon are roughly 21 inches long I believe (they advertise as 22", but with the plug and everything they're closer to 21"). Different types of bulbs have different Lumens, they don't design them to all be the same, so one brand could have a VERY high lumen rating and another that has the exact same Kelvin range could actually produce very low lumens compared to a different brand. CFL bulbs do not have a much variance as T4/5/8, etc, since there are so many more manufacturers for regular fluorescent bulbs, there only seem to be a few manufacturers for CFL bulbs (so far at least). Not sure if that helps at all, LOL. Basically you need to ask the manufacturer what the lumens are for the exact bulb you have, if you give them a general bulb they could give you a bad/wrong answer. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hmmm, the bulb length is 17 inches, not 34, oh well, I'll have to > call. The entire light fixture is only 20 inches, so the 34 must be > another light. > > Thanks very much. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 2, 2010, at 8:59 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > >> Lainey, Your 96 Watt Coralife 6700K Quad Compact Fluorescent bulb >> is made >> by Pet Mountain. As \\Steve// mentions, Oceanic is another one of >> their >> lines. You haven't said what type of compact fluorescent bulb you >> have, nor >> what the length of it is. Pet Mountain lists it as a "Daylight" >> type bulb (as >> would be appropriate for this "K" rating), and they give the length >> as 34" >> -- possibly (assumedly) measured as the length of the tube doubled >> back on >> itself . >> >> They can be reached at their PR Dep't number -- 1-888-373-8686. Their >> website address is < www.PetMountain.com >. There's a provision on >> the website >> to fill out a question to send to them -- which I've already done, >> asking >> for the lumens of this bulb (their Model # 54094). >> >> Drs Foster & Smith list the same bulb under their heading -- "Compact >> Fluorescent 96 Watt Quad Bulbs," as Coralife - 17" PC Quad Lamp >> 6700K, their >> catalog number -- AKD-21152. Oddly, they list it as a 17" bulb, >> probably >> measured as the length of the unit only, not considering its >> doubled length. I'll >> post the lumens when I receive them, or you can phone them for quicker >> results (if they're available on Sundays). You could also try >> calling the "Drs" >> for this info at 1-800--443-1160. Ray</HTML> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48006	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 5/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

Well, So I got 2 Clown Pleco’s (Peckoltia pulcher) about 10 days ago. Sadly after 9 days both of them perished. From what I have been reading it most likely was due to the lack of LOTS of algae in the Q tank I had them in. Luckily the person I got them from was NICE to give me my $ back So my new question is this: Were I to get some more should I A. Get only 1 B. Should I place IT in the established thank that HAS algae without first quarantine it? C. IF B above cannot be done WHAT can I do to get some algae to grow in the Q tank and succeed next time. As some of you know I have been at this Aquarium thing for over 9 months and so far things are looking really good and would really hate to have my current stock vanish. Thanks Alex Semper Fi From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed They are completely different species as far as we know. The Pleco/Catfish world is even worse than the Cichlid world for having unnamed fish or bad scientific names that are constantly being renamed. I mentioned in the first paragraph in my previous post that there are at least a couple of dwarf plecos that share the common name, Clown Pleco, but fortunately, both of them are "dwarf" plecos and stay pretty small, under 4.5" for one and only around 3" for the other. As juvi's they are even harder to identify so you may not know exactly what you have until after it starts to mature. If you can't tell for yourself, you can always start a thread in the PlecoFanatics.com "What Kind Of Pleco Do I Have?" forum. I had to do that back in 2005 with a pleco that I adopted and couldn't tell what it was and it took dozens of *experts* nearly six months to tell what I have and they couldn't really tell until it grew more and started to show it's true colors/markings. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:04 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello again, So I am a bit confused at the moment. I just did some more searching for Clown Plecos and found 2 different scientific names Peckoltia pulcher Panaque maccus Are these the same fish or are they different? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:25:13 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Yes. Baby/Juvi Clown Plecos are only about an inch long. At least that's about how big mine was when I got him/her from my LFS. There are a couple of species of dwarf plecos that are commonly called clown plecos but they all are dwarf plecos with one growing to only around 3" and the other growing only to around 4.5". They won't fight or spar as juvi's but as adults, many plecos will fight or spar for the same cave or hide-out as they mature so make sure you have several spots for each of them to call home. My single, now 3" clown pleco works hard on keeping my 65G goldfish tank as algae free as he can. I had let it grow extra algae between the time I rehomed an adopted common pleco and the time I got him, to make sure I had enough algae, as not having enough algae when you first get an algae eating fish can lead to starvation... so make sure you have enough algae before you get two of them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Lenny, Will I be able to put 2 Clown Pleco's in the 10g q tank? They will be all by themselves as the Platy's will have been moved by the time I get the pleco. Thanks again, Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually much smaller than BN's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are pretty good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get pretty big, around 10" to 11". http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48007	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Suggestion Needed

Put them in quarantine but move an algae covered decoration, plant, etc., from your main tank, as needed to give the fish some algae to eat while in quarantine. Even if you have to scrape some off the glass, if it's thick enough to come off in a clump and not disintegrate. What were you feeding them while in quarantine? Were they eating? If they weren't eating, I wish you would have written in sooner, maybe the above suggestion could have saved the little guys... but it's also possible they were sick. Did you do a long enough and slow enough acclimation to acclimate them to your water? My clown pleco rarely seeks out any of the fish food that I feed my tank. I will occasionally put a small piece of algae wafer into the entrance to a little cave (I have a long aquarium claw tool that I use for this) where he sometimes hangs out and I'll see him gnawing on it but mostly he just eats algae. I never see him seek out the zucchini slices or cucumber slices that my previous pleco's would go after big time. Of course, he's in a tank with two fancy goldfish who are notorious pigs but I see my clown pleco hanging around with the goldfish on other occasions but just not at feeding times. As far as not quarantining new fish, I would not recommend this unless you know for certain that the fish comes from a healthy source and even then it can be risky as fish in one tank might have had time to develop immunity to a certain pathogen in that tank where your own tank may not be immune to the pathogen. Of course, even after spending time in a quarantine tank, there's always a chance a new fish could bring along a new pathogen to the community tank but at least you are minimizing the risk by keeping new fish in quarantine. There's always a chance your new clown pleco's succumbed to something else in the nine days you had them and if they were sick, you could have infected your entire main tank if you did not quarantine them first. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Well, So I got 2 Clown Pleco's (Peckoltia pulcher) about 10 days ago. Sadly after 9 days both of them perished. From what I have been reading it most likely was due to the lack of LOTS of algae in the Q tank I had them in. Luckily the person I got them from was NICE to give me my $ back. So my new question is this: Were I to get some more should I A. Get only 1 B. Should I place IT in the established thank that HAS algae without first quarantine it? C. IF B above cannot be done WHAT can I do to get some algae to grow in the Q tank and succeed next time. As some of you know I have been at this Aquarium thing for over 9 months and so far things are looking really good and would really hate to have my current stock vanish. Thanks Alex Semper Fi From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed They are completely different species as far as we know. The Pleco/Catfish world is even worse than the Cichlid world for having unnamed fish or bad scientific names that are constantly being renamed. I mentioned in the first paragraph in my previous post that there are at least a couple of dwarf plecos that share the common name, Clown Pleco, but fortunately, both of them are "dwarf" plecos and stay pretty small, under 4.5" for one and only around 3" for the other. As juvi's they are even harder to identify so you may not know exactly what you have until after it starts to mature. If you can't tell for yourself, you can always start a thread in the PlecoFanatics.com "What Kind Of Pleco Do I Have?" forum. I had to do that back in 2005 with a pleco that I adopted and couldn't tell what it was and it took dozens of *experts* nearly six months to tell what I have and they couldn't really tell until it grew more and started to show it's true colors/markings. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:04 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello again, So I am a bit confused at the moment. I just did some more searching for Clown Plecos and found 2 different scientific names Peckoltia pulcher Panaque maccus Are these the same fish or are they different? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> From: GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:25:13 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Yes. Baby/Juvi Clown Plecos are only about an inch long. At least that's about how big mine was when I got him/her from my LFS. There are a couple of species of dwarf plecos that are commonly called clown plecos but they all are dwarf plecos with one growing to only around 3" and the other growing only to around 4.5". They won't fight or spar as juvi's but as adults, many plecos will fight or spar for the same cave or hide-out as they mature so make sure you have several spots for each of them to call home. My single, now 3" clown pleco works hard on keeping my 65G goldfish tank as algae free as he can. I had let it grow extra algae between the time I rehomed an adopted common pleco and the time I got him, to make sure I had enough algae, as not having enough algae when you first get an algae eating fish can lead to starvation... so make sure you have enough algae before you get two of them. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Lenny, Will I be able to put 2 Clown Pleco's in the 10g q tank? They will be all by themselves as the Platy's will have been moved by the time I get the pleco. Thanks again, Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 6:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed I would go with a dwarf pleco variety, maybe a Bristle Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.), which won't outgrow your tank like a common pleco might. You could even go with a pair if you like. Clown Pleco's also stay small... actually much smaller than BN's. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile117.html This page has info on the BN and several other commonly available plecos. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm Were you planning on just having the CAE's for a short time? They are pretty good algae eaters when young but as they mature, they aren't and actually become pretty aggressive towards each other and other fish. They also get pretty big, around 10" to 11". http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Gyrinocheilus_aymonieri.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> <mailto:AMejia1976%40hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:14 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Suggestion Needed Hello group and happy Easter; Looking to add a pleco and maybe 2-3 CAE to my 80g US tank Current conditions pH @ 7.6 ammo, nitri @ 0 Nitra @ 5 kh @ 6 gH @ 10 I currently have 5 emerald green cory 5 Danios 8 Platy 9 guppy 5 neon Will CAE and pleco cohabitate? With so many pleco's out there some suggestions will be appreciated Alex Sent on the SprintR Now Network from my BlackBerryR

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48008	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Amber, Yes, as you mention, 34" long compact fluorescent tubes are made, and even in the style of having a square pin -- but I don't believe Coralife makes a square pin 96 Watt CFL 6700K bulb which Lainey uses (Coralife does make this size/length and wattage square pin bulb in 10,000K, 50/50 and Actinic, though). The various types of 34" 96 Watt square pin CFL bulbs are mostly made by SunPaq; they make at least 7 different types of Daylight, Dual Daylight, Actinic and Dual Actinic in that range. The 22" CFL bulbs on your 55 gallon are probably one of the types of 65 Watt square pin bulbs manufactured by SunPaq. The square pin bulbs are always quite a bit higher in price than the straight pin bulbs (you probably have straight pin bulbs on your 125). One thing I'd like to point out -- the 96 Watt Coralife 6700K square pin bulb that Lainey seems to be using is priced at $43.96 from the manufacturer (Pet Mountain), whereas the same bulb sold by Drs Foster & Smith is priced at $49.99. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48009	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Just checking, is this the light you have Lainey? *http://tinyurl.com/3xf8fat *It seems to have a special "quad" bulb that I have not seen for sale normally (must be something that's not as popular). Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Hmmm, the bulb length is 17 inches, not 34, oh well, I'll have to > call. The entire light fixture is only 20 inches, so the 34 must be > another light. > > Thanks very much. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 2, 2010, at 8:59 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > >> Lainey, Your 96 Watt Coralife 6700K Quad Compact Fluorescent bulb >> is made >> by Pet Mountain. As \\Steve// mentions, Oceanic is another one of >> their >> lines. You haven't said what type of compact fluorescent bulb you >> have, nor >> what the length of it is. Pet Mountain lists it as a "Daylight" >> type bulb (as >> would be appropriate for this "K" rating), and they give the length >> as 34" >> -- possibly (assumedly) measured as the length of the tube doubled >> back on >> itself . >> >> They can be reached at their PR Dep't number -- 1-888-373-8686. Their >> website address is < www.PetMountain.com >. There's a provision on >> the website >> to fill out a question to send to them -- which I've already done, >> asking >> for the lumens of this bulb (their Model # 54094). >> >> Drs Foster & Smith list the same bulb under their heading -- "Compact >> Fluorescent 96 Watt Quad Bulbs," as Coralife - 17" PC Quad Lamp >> 6700K, their >> catalog number -- AKD-21152. Oddly, they list it as a 17" bulb, >> probably >> measured as the length of the unit only, not considering its >> doubled length. I'll >> post the lumens when I receive them, or you can phone them for quicker >> results (if they're available on Sundays). You could also try >> calling the "Drs" >> for this info at 1-800--443-1160. Ray</HTML> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48010	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

I found an even better deal, and a better light spectrum ;) LOL http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=702&rn=3308&action=show_detail 35.99 for a 5500K full spectrum bulb, Lainey get that one if you ever need to replace your bulb ;) hehe Oh I just ran across this site, not sure if it helps Lainey or not. http://all-aquatics.com/store/category/fpr0/Coralife_PC_Lamps.html Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Amber, Yes, as you mention, 34" long compact fluorescent tubes are made, > and even in the style of having a square pin -- but I don't believe > Coralife > makes a square pin 96 Watt CFL 6700K bulb which Lainey uses (Coralife > does > make this size/length and wattage square pin bulb in 10,000K, 50/50 and > Actinic, though). The various types of 34" 96 Watt square pin CFL > bulbs are > mostly made by SunPaq; they make at least 7 different types of > Daylight, Dual > Daylight, Actinic and Dual Actinic in that range. The 22" CFL bulbs on > your > 55 gallon are probably one of the types of 65 Watt square pin bulbs > manufactured by SunPaq. The square pin bulbs are always quite a bit > higher in price > than the straight pin bulbs (you probably have straight pin bulbs on your > 125). One thing I'd like to point out -- the 96 Watt Coralife 6700K > square > pin bulb that Lainey seems to be using is priced at $43.96 from the > manufacturer (Pet Mountain), whereas the same bulb sold by Drs Foster > & Smith is > priced at $49.99. Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48011	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

I've often considered getting an adapter so I could buy the cheaper bulbs for my light fixture (55 gallon), but figured with the added length on the bulb with the adapter that it wouldn't fit in the hood anymore, LOL. It was a nice thought at first though ;). I think I will never buy this quad light fixture, since the bulbs are so hard to find at a good price, and there's not even one for sale at all (the bulb that is, they sell the whole fixture) on marinedepot.com ;) Seems a bit odd to sell the fixture but not sell the replacement bulbs for the fixture, LOL. Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Amber, Yes, as you mention, 34" long compact fluorescent tubes are made, > and even in the style of having a square pin -- but I don't believe > Coralife > makes a square pin 96 Watt CFL 6700K bulb which Lainey uses (Coralife > does > make this size/length and wattage square pin bulb in 10,000K, 50/50 and > Actinic, though). The various types of 34" 96 Watt square pin CFL > bulbs are > mostly made by SunPaq; they make at least 7 different types of > Daylight, Dual > Daylight, Actinic and Dual Actinic in that range. The 22" CFL bulbs on > your > 55 gallon are probably one of the types of 65 Watt square pin bulbs > manufactured by SunPaq. The square pin bulbs are always quite a bit > higher in price > than the straight pin bulbs (you probably have straight pin bulbs on your > 125). One thing I'd like to point out -- the 96 Watt Coralife 6700K > square > pin bulb that Lainey seems to be using is priced at $43.96 from the > manufacturer (Pet Mountain), whereas the same bulb sold by Drs Foster > & Smith is > priced at $49.99. Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48012	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

I can't open that link but this is the one I have: http:// www.coralifeaqualight.com/20- freshwater-quad-power-compact.php It's my best light by far. I have it over a 18 inch tall 25g cube - I can grow anything! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 4, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Just checking, is this the light you have Lainey? > *http://tinyurl.com/3xf8fat > *It seems to have a special "quad" bulb that I have not seen for sale > normally (must be something that's not as popular). > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Hmmm, the bulb length is 17 inches, not 34, oh well, I'll have to > > call. The entire light fixture is only 20 inches, so the 34 must be > > another light. > > > > Thanks very much. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On May 2, 2010, at 8:59 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > >> Lainey, Your 96 Watt Coralife 6700K Quad Compact Fluorescent bulb > >> is made > >> by Pet Mountain. As \\Steve// mentions, Oceanic is another one of > >> their > >> lines. You haven't said what type of compact fluorescent bulb you > >> have, nor > >> what the length of it is. Pet Mountain lists it as a "Daylight" > >> type bulb (as > >> would be appropriate for this "K" rating), and they give the length > >> as 34" > >> -- possibly (assumedly) measured as the length of the tube doubled > >> back on > >> itself . > >> > >> They can be reached at their PR Dep't number -- 1-888-373-8686. > Their > >> website address is < www.PetMountain.com >. There's a provision on > >> the website > >> to fill out a question to send to them -- which I've already done, > >> asking > >> for the lumens of this bulb (their Model # 54094). > >> > >> Drs Foster & Smith list the same bulb under their heading -- > "Compact > >> Fluorescent 96 Watt Quad Bulbs," as Coralife - 17" PC Quad Lamp > >> 6700K, their > >> catalog number -- AKD-21152. Oddly, they list it as a 17" bulb, > >> probably > >> measured as the length of the unit only, not considering its > >> doubled length. I'll > >> post the lumens when I receive them, or you can phone them for > quicker > >> results (if they're available on Sundays). You could also try > >> calling the "Drs" > >> for this info at 1-800--443-1160. Ray</HTML> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48013	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

None of those sites give the lumens on these bulbs. Either Coralife doesn't disclose their lumens or some of these sites are just not up to speed on providing adequate information for the consumer. Personally, I don't care one bit about wattage any longer... except to know how much electricity a particular bulb will be costing me BUT I do want to know how much light (lumens) and the Kelvin spectrum of the bulb. If a 20W bulb gives me more lumens in the right K range compared to a 96W bulb with the same lumens and K range, at the same price.. then I'm going with the 20W bulb since it's around 1/5th of the electrical cost. If the 20W bulb costs a LOT more than the 96W bulb, then I have to do a little math to figure out which bulb to get. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question I found an even better deal, and a better light spectrum ;) LOL http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=702&rn=3308&action=show_deta il 35.99 for a 5500K full spectrum bulb, Lainey get that one if you ever need to replace your bulb ;) hehe Oh I just ran across this site, not sure if it helps Lainey or not. http://all-aquatics.com/store/category/fpr0/Coralife_PC_Lamps.html Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Amber, Yes, as you mention, 34" long compact fluorescent tubes are > made, and even in the style of having a square pin -- but I don't > believe Coralife makes a square pin 96 Watt CFL 6700K bulb which > Lainey uses (Coralife does make this size/length and wattage square > pin bulb in 10,000K, 50/50 and Actinic, though). The various types of > 34" 96 Watt square pin CFL bulbs are mostly made by SunPaq; they make > at least 7 different types of Daylight, Dual Daylight, Actinic and > Dual Actinic in that range. The 22" CFL bulbs on your > 55 gallon are probably one of the types of 65 Watt square pin bulbs > manufactured by SunPaq. The square pin bulbs are always quite a bit > higher in price than the straight pin bulbs (you probably have > straight pin bulbs on your 125). One thing I'd like to point out -- > the 96 Watt Coralife 6700K square pin bulb that Lainey seems to be > using is priced at $43.96 from the manufacturer (Pet Mountain), > whereas the same bulb sold by Drs Foster & Smith is priced at $49.99. > Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48014	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

It's the same light fixture. I can see how it would be useful in your situation, but I don't have a tank that it would fit on properly, LOL. Maybe the Hex I have at my parents, but I don't think my mom is going to let me have it back ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I can't open that link but this is the one I have: http:// > www.coralifeaqualight.com/20- > freshwater-quad-power-compact.php > > It's my best light by far. I have it over a 18 inch tall 25g cube - I > can grow anything! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 4, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Just checking, is this the light you have Lainey? >> *http://tinyurl.com/3xf8fat >> *It seems to have a special "quad" bulb that I have not seen for sale >> normally (must be something that's not as popular). >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Hmmm, the bulb length is 17 inches, not 34, oh well, I'll have to >>> call. The entire light fixture is only 20 inches, so the 34 must be >>> another light. >>> >>> Thanks very much. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On May 2, 2010, at 8:59 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Lainey, Your 96 Watt Coralife 6700K Quad Compact Fluorescent bulb >>>> is made >>>> by Pet Mountain. As \\Steve// mentions, Oceanic is another one of >>>> their >>>> lines. You haven't said what type of compact fluorescent bulb you >>>> have, nor >>>> what the length of it is. Pet Mountain lists it as a "Daylight" >>>> type bulb (as >>>> would be appropriate for this "K" rating), and they give the length >>>> as 34" >>>> -- possibly (assumedly) measured as the length of the tube doubled >>>> back on >>>> itself . >>>> >>>> They can be reached at their PR Dep't number -- 1-888-373-8686. >>>> >> Their >> >>>> website address is < www.PetMountain.com >. There's a provision on >>>> the website >>>> to fill out a question to send to them -- which I've already done, >>>> asking >>>> for the lumens of this bulb (their Model # 54094). >>>> >>>> Drs Foster & Smith list the same bulb under their heading -- >>>> >> "Compact >> >>>> Fluorescent 96 Watt Quad Bulbs," as Coralife - 17" PC Quad Lamp >>>> 6700K, their >>>> catalog number -- AKD-21152. Oddly, they list it as a 17" bulb, >>>> probably >>>> measured as the length of the unit only, not considering its >>>> doubled length. I'll >>>> post the lumens when I receive them, or you can phone them for >>>> >> quicker >> >>>> results (if they're available on Sundays). You could also try >>>> calling the "Drs" >>>> for this info at 1-800--443-1160. Ray</HTML> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48015	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

I couldn't find any lumens info for that bulb either, and I couldn't find any for the regular square pin coralife bulbs either, so unless someone posts a picture of the close up of the box (which MIGHT have the lumens info on it, not sure though), we're out of luck, LOL. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > None of those sites give the lumens on these bulbs. Either Coralife > doesn't > disclose their lumens or some of these sites are just not up to speed on > providing adequate information for the consumer. > > Personally, I don't care one bit about wattage any longer... except to > know > how much electricity a particular bulb will be costing me BUT I do want to > know how much light (lumens) and the Kelvin spectrum of the bulb. If a 20W > bulb gives me more lumens in the right K range compared to a 96W bulb with > the same lumens and K range, at the same price.. then I'm going with > the 20W > bulb since it's around 1/5th of the electrical cost. If the 20W bulb costs > a LOT more than the 96W bulb, then I have to do a little math to > figure out > which bulb to get. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:26 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting question > > I found an even better deal, and a better light spectrum ;) LOL > http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=702&rn=3308&action=show_deta > <http://www.naturallighting.com/web/shop.php?crn=702&rn=3308&action=show_deta> > il > 35.99 for a 5500K full spectrum bulb, Lainey get that one if you ever need > to replace your bulb ;) hehe > > Oh I just ran across this site, not sure if it helps Lainey or not. > http://all-aquatics.com/store/category/fpr0/Coralife_PC_Lamps.html > <http://all-aquatics.com/store/category/fpr0/Coralife_PC_Lamps.html> > > Amber > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > > > > Amber, Yes, as you mention, 34" long compact fluorescent tubes are > > made, and even in the style of having a square pin -- but I don't > > believe Coralife makes a square pin 96 Watt CFL 6700K bulb which > > Lainey uses (Coralife does make this size/length and wattage square > > pin bulb in 10,000K, 50/50 and Actinic, though). The various types of > > 34" 96 Watt square pin CFL bulbs are mostly made by SunPaq; they make > > at least 7 different types of Daylight, Dual Daylight, Actinic and > > Dual Actinic in that range. The 22" CFL bulbs on your > > 55 gallon are probably one of the types of 65 Watt square pin bulbs > > manufactured by SunPaq. The square pin bulbs are always quite a bit > > higher in price than the straight pin bulbs (you probably have > > straight pin bulbs on your 125). One thing I'd like to point out -- > > the 96 Watt Coralife 6700K square pin bulb that Lainey seems to be > > using is priced at $43.96 from the manufacturer (Pet Mountain), > > whereas the same bulb sold by Drs Foster & Smith is priced at $49.99. > > Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48016	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Lainey this is the manufacturer's site. http://www.oceanicsystems.com/products/6700k-compact-fluorescent-lamps.php This way you have the item # if you have to call and ask questions about the bulb. (the item number is 54098) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > I can't open that link but this is the one I have: http:// > www.coralifeaqualight.com/20- > freshwater-quad-power-compact.php > > It's my best light by far. I have it over a 18 inch tall 25g cube - I > can grow anything! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 4, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> Just checking, is this the light you have Lainey? >> *http://tinyurl.com/3xf8fat >> *It seems to have a special "quad" bulb that I have not seen for sale >> normally (must be something that's not as popular). >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> Hmmm, the bulb length is 17 inches, not 34, oh well, I'll have to >>> call. The entire light fixture is only 20 inches, so the 34 must be >>> another light. >>> >>> Thanks very much. >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On May 2, 2010, at 8:59 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Lainey, Your 96 Watt Coralife 6700K Quad Compact Fluorescent bulb >>>> is made >>>> by Pet Mountain. As \\Steve// mentions, Oceanic is another one of >>>> their >>>> lines. You haven't said what type of compact fluorescent bulb you >>>> have, nor >>>> what the length of it is. Pet Mountain lists it as a "Daylight" >>>> type bulb (as >>>> would be appropriate for this "K" rating), and they give the length >>>> as 34" >>>> -- possibly (assumedly) measured as the length of the tube doubled >>>> back on >>>> itself . >>>> >>>> They can be reached at their PR Dep't number -- 1-888-373-8686. >>>> >> Their >> >>>> website address is < www.PetMountain.com >. There's a provision on >>>> the website >>>> to fill out a question to send to them -- which I've already done, >>>> asking >>>> for the lumens of this bulb (their Model # 54094). >>>> >>>> Drs Foster & Smith list the same bulb under their heading -- >>>> >> "Compact >> >>>> Fluorescent 96 Watt Quad Bulbs," as Coralife - 17" PC Quad Lamp >>>> 6700K, their >>>> catalog number -- AKD-21152. Oddly, they list it as a 17" bulb, >>>> probably >>>> measured as the length of the unit only, not considering its >>>> doubled length. I'll >>>> post the lumens when I receive them, or you can phone them for >>>> >> quicker >> >>>> results (if they're available on Sundays). You could also try >>>> calling the "Drs" >>>> for this info at 1-800--443-1160. Ray</HTML> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48017	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/4/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting question

Thanks! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 4, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Lainey this is the manufacturer's site. > http://www.oceanicsystems.com/products/6700k-compact-fluorescent- > lamps.php > This way you have the item # if you have to call and ask questions > about > the bulb. (the item number is 54098) > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I can't open that link but this is the one I have: http:// > > www.coralifeaqualight.com/20- > > freshwater-quad-power-compact.php > > > > It's my best light by far. I have it over a 18 inch tall 25g cube > - I > > can grow anything! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On May 4, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> Just checking, is this the light you have Lainey? > >> *http://tinyurl.com/3xf8fat > >> *It seems to have a special "quad" bulb that I have not seen for > sale > >> normally (must be something that's not as popular). > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >>> Hmmm, the bulb length is 17 inches, not 34, oh well, I'll have to > >>> call. The entire light fixture is only 20 inches, so the 34 > must be > >>> another light. > >>> > >>> Thanks very much. > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On May 2, 2010, at 8:59 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Lainey, Your 96 Watt Coralife 6700K Quad Compact Fluorescent bulb > >>>> is made > >>>> by Pet Mountain. As \\Steve// mentions, Oceanic is another one of > >>>> their > >>>> lines. You haven't said what type of compact fluorescent bulb you > >>>> have, nor > >>>> what the length of it is. Pet Mountain lists it as a "Daylight" > >>>> type bulb (as > >>>> would be appropriate for this "K" rating), and they give the > length > >>>> as 34" > >>>> -- possibly (assumedly) measured as the length of the tube > doubled > >>>> back on > >>>> itself . > >>>> > >>>> They can be reached at their PR Dep't number -- 1-888-373-8686. > >>>> > >> Their > >> > >>>> website address is < www.PetMountain.com >. There's a > provision on > >>>> the website > >>>> to fill out a question to send to them -- which I've already > done, > >>>> asking > >>>> for the lumens of this bulb (their Model # 54094). > >>>> > >>>> Drs Foster & Smith list the same bulb under their heading -- > >>>> > >> "Compact > >> > >>>> Fluorescent 96 Watt Quad Bulbs," as Coralife - 17" PC Quad Lamp > >>>> 6700K, their > >>>> catalog number -- AKD-21152. Oddly, they list it as a 17" bulb, > >>>> probably > >>>> measured as the length of the unit only, not considering its > >>>> doubled length. I'll > >>>> post the lumens when I receive them, or you can phone them for > >>>> > >> quicker > >> > >>>> results (if they're available on Sundays). You could also try > >>>> calling the "Drs" > >>>> for this info at 1-800--443-1160. Ray</HTML> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> > >> Thank You. > >> > >>> ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > >>> > >> ((((�> > >> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >> subject)" <- > >> > >>> <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > >>> > >> ��`�.��. > >> > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > >>> > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > >>> > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > >> and post replies. > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > >>> > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48018	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Lighting information

I found this information at Planted Tank, not sure if it would be useful to people? I myself have no idea what it means, but I know Lenny was wondering about charts and stuff:) Also not sure it's going to transfer once I send this. If not, it's at: http:// www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types- lumens-watts.html Preamble: • This article is designed to compare several popular lighting types in terms of power (Watts) and light (Lumens) only. Issues such as spectrum and lighting selection will not be addressed. • Link to WPG: Lighting: the WPG rule • Eric Olsen’s comparison: Lighting Level for Aquatic Plants • Energy/area method: foot-candles, lux, lumens, sunlight, PAR • DIY (do it yourself) projects have an inherent risk above standard operation. Any DIY ideas mentioned here are for completeness only and does not constitute and endorsement. Water and electricity do not mix! • Guides the PAR/PUR alternative for can be found at light compareand DefBlog - PUR-efficiency list Nomenclature • Total intensity is expressed as lumens (lm). • Power as Watts (W). • Power levels: Normal Output (NO), High Output (HO), Very High Output (VHO), and Over-Driven Normal Output (ODNO) Summary Table: * Quote: Buy Tools, Lighting, Electrical and DataComm Supplies at GoodMart.com unless noted # fluorescent bulbs = 4‘, ## (high, - (quoted) - low), lm/W from mean value ### multiplier of intensity to compare T12. Ie 28W T5 = 1.37 W T-12. Example 2 WPG T5 = 2.74 WPG T12. +4hydroponics.com Incandescent bulbs • Operation described here: Diagram of a Light Bulb • “Aquarium” 15 W bulb ~7.4 lm/W. • Color ~2850K Linear fluorescent lamps • Operation described here: How do Fluorescent Lamps work? • Bulb diameter: T-12 -> 12 one-eighths or 1.5”. (T8 = 1”) • Medium bipin contacts used for T12 NO, T10, T8 and T6 in standard lengths. • From ~3000K to 6700K High Output • T12 High Output variants: The HO and VHO T12 lamp use recessed double contact to prevent interchange and operate by increasing the current (T12 NO = 430 mA, HO = 800 mA, VHO = 1500 mA) • T5 High Output variants: The T5 and T5 HO use the same miniature bipin contact but require a load sensing ballast. Under/Overdriving • Ballast power factor is the ratio of the lamp design current over the supplied ballast current. • For example a energy saving T12 ballasts can have 0.88 power factor resulting in 2775 lumens X 0.88 = 2376. • Fluorescent lamps can be “overdriven” with a high power factor ballast, or creative wiring. Over-Driven Normal Output ODNO is covered in depth here: www.plantedtank.net/odno.html • Rule of thumb is 2X = 50%, 3X = 75% lm, 4X = 100% increase. • The member “Shalu” notes that some combinations actually become more efficient when OD. Suggested that 2x OD 18" T8 outputs 2.5x light! Other lamps: • Spiral Compact as screw in type. Total lm quoted, expect significant loss to restrike. • Reports that power compact (PC) are bent T5 with 55/66W power dependent on ballast, not bulb. • HID operation: How does an HID lamp work? Contributors: • “BlueRam” • “Shalu” Attached Images  Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48019	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information

Oh, I see that the chart did not come through so just use the link. Sorry. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 6, 2010, at 9:18 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I found this information at Planted Tank, not sure if it would be > useful to people? I myself have no idea what it means, but I know > Lenny was wondering about charts and stuff:) Also not sure it's going > to transfer once I send this. If not, it's at: http:// > www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types- > lumens-watts.html > > Preamble: > • This article is designed to compare several popular lighting types > in terms of power (Watts) and light (Lumens) only. Issues such as > spectrum and lighting selection will not be addressed. > • Link to WPG: Lighting: the WPG rule > • Eric Olsen’s comparison: Lighting Level for Aquatic Plants > • Energy/area method: foot-candles, lux, lumens, sunlight, PAR > • DIY (do it yourself) projects have an inherent risk above standard > operation. Any DIY ideas mentioned here are for completeness only and > does not constitute and endorsement. Water and electricity do not mix! > • Guides the PAR/PUR alternative for can be found at light > compareand DefBlog - PUR-efficiency list > > Nomenclature > > • Total intensity is expressed as lumens (lm). > • Power as Watts (W). > • Power levels: Normal Output (NO), High Output (HO), Very High > Output (VHO), and Over-Driven Normal Output (ODNO) > > Summary Table: > > * Quote: Buy Tools, Lighting, Electrical and DataComm Supplies at > GoodMart.com unless noted > # fluorescent bulbs = 4‘, > ## (high, - (quoted) - low), lm/W from mean value > ### multiplier of intensity to compare T12. Ie 28W T5 = 1.37 W T-12. > Example 2 WPG T5 = 2.74 WPG T12. > +4hydroponics.com > > Incandescent bulbs > • Operation described here: Diagram of a Light Bulb > • “Aquarium” 15 W bulb ~7.4 lm/W. > • Color ~2850K > > Linear fluorescent lamps > • Operation described here: How do Fluorescent Lamps work? > • Bulb diameter: T-12 -> 12 one-eighths or 1.5”. (T8 = 1”) > • Medium bipin contacts used for T12 NO, T10, T8 and T6 in standard > lengths. > • From ~3000K to 6700K > > High Output > • T12 High Output variants: The HO and VHO T12 lamp use recessed > double contact to prevent interchange and operate by increasing the > current (T12 NO = 430 mA, HO = 800 mA, VHO = 1500 mA) > • T5 High Output variants: The T5 and T5 HO use the same miniature > bipin contact but require a load sensing ballast. > > Under/Overdriving > • Ballast power factor is the ratio of the lamp design current over > the supplied ballast current. > • For example a energy saving T12 ballasts can have 0.88 power > factor resulting in 2775 lumens X 0.88 = 2376. > • Fluorescent lamps can be “overdriven” with a high power factor > ballast, or creative wiring. Over-Driven Normal Output ODNO is > covered in depth here: www.plantedtank.net/odno.html > • Rule of thumb is 2X = 50%, 3X = 75% lm, 4X = 100% increase. > • The member “Shalu” notes that some combinations actually > become more efficient when OD. Suggested that 2x OD 18" T8 outputs > 2.5x light! > > Other lamps: > • Spiral Compact as screw in type. Total lm quoted, expect > significant loss to restrike. > • Reports that power compact (PC) are bent T5 with 55/66W power > dependent on ballast, not bulb. > • HID operation: How does an HID lamp work? > > Contributors: > • “BlueRam” > • “Shalu” > Attached Images > >  > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48020	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information

Presuming the OP in that thread is editing and compiling information in the first post, I don't see anything that makes it any simpler than most of the other articles I've seen on the net. There's nothing wrong with someone doing an article like that and compiling information and links into one source (I do that myself sometimes) but I'm still looking for that rather easy to read article that contains a concise chart or set of guidelines for folks to use without having to have a degree in lumenology. ;-) Kind of like my "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon Fish-Killing Rule..." which gives a simple stocking guideline based on four categories of fish sizes (Small, Medium, Medium-Large and Large). http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule Sorry for the shameless plug! LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting information I found this information at Planted Tank, not sure if it would be useful to people? I myself have no idea what it means, but I know Lenny was wondering about charts and stuff:) Also not sure it's going to transfer once I send this. If not, it's at: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types-l umens-watts.html Preamble: . This article is designed to compare several popular lighting types in terms of power (Watts) and light (Lumens) only. Issues such as spectrum and lighting selection will not be addressed. . Link to WPG: Lighting: the WPG rule . Eric Olsen's comparison: Lighting Level for Aquatic Plants . Energy/area method: foot-candles, lux, lumens, sunlight, PAR . DIY (do it yourself) projects have an inherent risk above standard operation. Any DIY ideas mentioned here are for completeness only and does not constitute and endorsement. Water and electricity do not mix! . Guides the PAR/PUR alternative for can be found at light compareand DefBlog - PUR-efficiency list Nomenclature . Total intensity is expressed as lumens (lm). . Power as Watts (W). . Power levels: Normal Output (NO), High Output (HO), Very High Output (VHO), and Over-Driven Normal Output (ODNO) Summary Table: * Quote: Buy Tools, Lighting, Electrical and DataComm Supplies at GoodMart.com unless noted # fluorescent bulbs = 4', ## (high, - (quoted) - low), lm/W from mean value ### multiplier of intensity to compare T12. Ie 28W T5 = 1.37 W T-12. Example 2 WPG T5 = 2.74 WPG T12. +4hydroponics.com Incandescent bulbs . Operation described here: Diagram of a Light Bulb . "Aquarium" 15 W bulb ~7.4 lm/W. . Color ~2850K Linear fluorescent lamps . Operation described here: How do Fluorescent Lamps work? . Bulb diameter: T-12 -> 12 one-eighths or 1.5". (T8 = 1") . Medium bipin contacts used for T12 NO, T10, T8 and T6 in standard lengths. . From ~3000K to 6700K High Output . T12 High Output variants: The HO and VHO T12 lamp use recessed double contact to prevent interchange and operate by increasing the current (T12 NO = 430 mA, HO = 800 mA, VHO = 1500 mA) . T5 High Output variants: The T5 and T5 HO use the same miniature bipin contact but require a load sensing ballast. Under/Overdriving . Ballast power factor is the ratio of the lamp design current over the supplied ballast current. . For example a energy saving T12 ballasts can have 0.88 power factor resulting in 2775 lumens X 0.88 = 2376. . Fluorescent lamps can be "overdriven" with a high power factor ballast, or creative wiring. Over-Driven Normal Output ODNO is covered in depth here: www.plantedtank.net/odno.html . Rule of thumb is 2X = 50%, 3X = 75% lm, 4X = 100% increase. . The member "Shalu" notes that some combinations actually become more efficient when OD. Suggested that 2x OD 18" T8 outputs 2.5x light! Other lamps: . Spiral Compact as screw in type. Total lm quoted, expect significant loss to restrike. . Reports that power compact (PC) are bent T5 with 55/66W power dependent on ballast, not bulb. . HID operation: How does an HID lamp work? Contributors: . "BlueRam" . "Shalu" Attached Images Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48021	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information

When reading sites I've often seen people refer to CRI (color rendition index) instead of Lumens to show how good a bulb is compared to others. Apparently the CRI will tell you how accurate the bulb is at producing the color spectrum properly. When doing a quick search I found a decent reference to explain it if anyone is confused about CRI means. http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/bp_mechanical/article/0,,HPRO_20151_3463292,00.html You want bulbs that have a 90 or higher CRI rating for live plants, from forums and such that I've sifted through (sorry no example links). The higher the rating the better obviously. Not to mention the proper Kelvin range (anywhere from 5000 to 10000 kelvin will work okay for plants, it's been found that a mixture of Kelvin ranges; such as a 6700K and a 10000K will produce more growth on plants than just one type of bulb). I also agree with one of the posters on the forum that Lainey linked, they mentioned that Lumens only refers to the color spectrum as WE humans see it, which isn't how the plants use it. Not sure how true this is, but I've seen people on other forums mention this as well. Anyone out there with that degree in lumenology want to "shed some light" on the problem? lol ;) Also doing a quick search I found that most of the coralife bulbs have a CRI of 94, so they seem pretty decent to me. I didn't find Lainey's special quad bulb though. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Presuming the OP in that thread is editing and compiling information > in the > first post, I don't see anything that makes it any simpler than most > of the > other articles I've seen on the net. There's nothing wrong with someone > doing an article like that and compiling information and links into one > source (I do that myself sometimes) but I'm still looking for that rather > easy to read article that contains a concise chart or set of > guidelines for > folks to use without having to have a degree in lumenology. ;-) > > Kind of like my "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon > Fish-Killing Rule..." which gives a simple stocking guideline based on > four > categories of fish sizes (Small, Medium, Medium-Large and Large). > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per.> > html > > http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule > <http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule> > > Sorry for the shameless plug! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting information > > I found this information at Planted Tank, not sure if it would be > useful to > people? I myself have no idea what it means, but I know Lenny was > wondering > about charts and stuff:) Also not sure it's going to transfer once I send > this. If not, it's at: > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types-l > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types-l> > umens-watts.html > > Preamble: > . This article is designed to compare several popular lighting types in > terms of power (Watts) and light (Lumens) only. Issues such as > spectrum and > lighting selection will not be addressed. > . Link to WPG: Lighting: the WPG rule > . Eric Olsen's comparison: Lighting Level for Aquatic Plants . Energy/area > method: foot-candles, lux, lumens, sunlight, PAR . DIY (do it yourself) > projects have an inherent risk above standard operation. Any DIY ideas > mentioned here are for completeness only and does not constitute and > endorsement. Water and electricity do not mix! > . Guides the PAR/PUR alternative for can be found at light compareand > DefBlog - PUR-efficiency list > > Nomenclature > > . Total intensity is expressed as lumens (lm). > . Power as Watts (W). > . Power levels: Normal Output (NO), High Output (HO), Very High Output > (VHO), and Over-Driven Normal Output (ODNO) > > Summary Table: > > * Quote: Buy Tools, Lighting, Electrical and DataComm Supplies at > GoodMart.com unless noted # fluorescent bulbs = 4', ## (high, - (quoted) - > low), lm/W from mean value ### multiplier of intensity to compare T12. Ie > 28W T5 = 1.37 W T-12. > Example 2 WPG T5 = 2.74 WPG T12. > +4hydroponics.com > > Incandescent bulbs > . Operation described here: Diagram of a Light Bulb . "Aquarium" 15 W bulb > ~7.4 lm/W. > . Color ~2850K > > Linear fluorescent lamps > . Operation described here: How do Fluorescent Lamps work? > . Bulb diameter: T-12 -> 12 one-eighths or 1.5". (T8 = 1") . Medium bipin > contacts used for T12 NO, T10, T8 and T6 in standard lengths. > . From ~3000K to 6700K > > High Output > . T12 High Output variants: The HO and VHO T12 lamp use recessed double > contact to prevent interchange and operate by increasing the current > (T12 NO > = 430 mA, HO = 800 mA, VHO = 1500 mA) . T5 High Output variants: The > T5 and > T5 HO use the same miniature bipin contact but require a load sensing > ballast. > > Under/Overdriving > . Ballast power factor is the ratio of the lamp design current over the > supplied ballast current. > . For example a energy saving T12 ballasts can have 0.88 power factor > resulting in 2775 lumens X 0.88 = 2376. > . Fluorescent lamps can be "overdriven" with a high power factor > ballast, or > creative wiring. Over-Driven Normal Output ODNO is covered in depth here: > www.plantedtank.net/odno.html . Rule of thumb is 2X = 50%, 3X = 75% > lm, 4X = > 100% increase. > . The member "Shalu" notes that some combinations actually become more > efficient when OD. Suggested that 2x OD 18" T8 outputs 2.5x light! > > Other lamps: > . Spiral Compact as screw in type. Total lm quoted, expect significant > loss > to restrike. > . Reports that power compact (PC) are bent T5 with 55/66W power > dependent on > ballast, not bulb. > . HID operation: How does an HID lamp work? > > Contributors: > . "BlueRam" > . "Shalu" > Attached Images > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48022	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/6/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information

I think those people are correct when strictly using "Lumens". When you are comparing two bulbs with the same exact K rating, which is the first thing you want for plants, then you want to see how many lumens each bulb puts out. If one is a 40W, 6700K bulb that only puts out 2,100 lumens and the other is a 40W, 6700K bulb that puts out 3,800 lumens, then the 3,800 lumens bulb is a MUCH brighter bulb in the right spectrum. What some of these *experts* need to do is just set forth the simplest chart they can, say starting with a common 10G tank and a common 55G tank and put how many lumens, presumably in the 6,700K range, are needed for each of these tanks for: easy plants, then moderate plants, then hard plants. Presumably, easy plants would be a low-tech tank with only gravel and lighting, no CO2 or added nutrients. A hard plant tank would presumably be a high tech tank with special substrate, CO2 injection and thus the much higher lighting. With those two sets of parameters, many would be able to extrapolate what might be needed for most of the tanks in between these two sizes. A third chart/guideline could be done for deeper tanks that would require either much brighter lighting or more piercing type lighting like halogen or LED that shoots out beams/spotlights deeper into the water. I wish I had more experience with moderate and hard plants and high tech tanks as I would start a thread on a planted tank forum to bounce my ideas off of them but I do not have enough experience with any thing more than easy to grow plants. The KISS method works for me... when it comes to planted tanks. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2008/10/planted-tank-so-you-want-planted-tank. html OR http://tinyurl.com/Planted-Tank Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 11:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting information When reading sites I've often seen people refer to CRI (color rendition index) instead of Lumens to show how good a bulb is compared to others. Apparently the CRI will tell you how accurate the bulb is at producing the color spectrum properly. When doing a quick search I found a decent reference to explain it if anyone is confused about CRI means. http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/bp_mechanical/article/0,,HPRO_20151_3463292,00.h tml You want bulbs that have a 90 or higher CRI rating for live plants, from forums and such that I've sifted through (sorry no example links). The higher the rating the better obviously. Not to mention the proper Kelvin range (anywhere from 5000 to 10000 kelvin will work okay for plants, it's been found that a mixture of Kelvin ranges; such as a 6700K and a 10000K will produce more growth on plants than just one type of bulb). I also agree with one of the posters on the forum that Lainey linked, they mentioned that Lumens only refers to the color spectrum as WE humans see it, which isn't how the plants use it. Not sure how true this is, but I've seen people on other forums mention this as well. Anyone out there with that degree in lumenology want to "shed some light" on the problem? lol ;) Also doing a quick search I found that most of the coralife bulbs have a CRI of 94, so they seem pretty decent to me. I didn't find Lainey's special quad bulb though. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Presuming the OP in that thread is editing and compiling information > in the first post, I don't see anything that makes it any simpler than > most of the other articles I've seen on the net. There's nothing wrong > with someone doing an article like that and compiling information and > links into one source (I do that myself sometimes) but I'm still > looking for that rather easy to read article that contains a concise > chart or set of guidelines for folks to use without having to have a > degree in lumenology. ;-) > > Kind of like my "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon > Fish-Killing Rule..." which gives a simple stocking guideline based on > four categories of fish sizes (Small, Medium, Medium-Large and Large). > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace > -1-per.> > html > > http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule > <http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule> > > Sorry for the shameless plug! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting information > > I found this information at Planted Tank, not sure if it would be > useful to people? I myself have no idea what it means, but I know > Lenny was wondering about charts and stuff:) Also not sure it's going > to transfer once I send this. If not, it's at: > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-t > ypes-l > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting- > types-l> > umens-watts.html > > Preamble: > . This article is designed to compare several popular lighting types > in terms of power (Watts) and light (Lumens) only. Issues such as > spectrum and lighting selection will not be addressed. > . Link to WPG: Lighting: the WPG rule > . Eric Olsen's comparison: Lighting Level for Aquatic Plants . > Energy/area > method: foot-candles, lux, lumens, sunlight, PAR . DIY (do it > yourself) projects have an inherent risk above standard operation. Any > DIY ideas mentioned here are for completeness only and does not > constitute and endorsement. Water and electricity do not mix! > . Guides the PAR/PUR alternative for can be found at light compareand > DefBlog - PUR-efficiency list > > Nomenclature > > . Total intensity is expressed as lumens (lm). > . Power as Watts (W). > . Power levels: Normal Output (NO), High Output (HO), Very High Output > (VHO), and Over-Driven Normal Output (ODNO) > > Summary Table: > > * Quote: Buy Tools, Lighting, Electrical and DataComm Supplies at > GoodMart.com unless noted # fluorescent bulbs = 4', ## (high, - > (quoted) - low), lm/W from mean value ### multiplier of intensity to > compare T12. Ie 28W T5 = 1.37 W T-12. > Example 2 WPG T5 = 2.74 WPG T12. > +4hydroponics.com > > Incandescent bulbs > . Operation described here: Diagram of a Light Bulb . "Aquarium" 15 W > bulb > ~7.4 lm/W. > . Color ~2850K > > Linear fluorescent lamps > . Operation described here: How do Fluorescent Lamps work? > . Bulb diameter: T-12 -> 12 one-eighths or 1.5". (T8 = 1") . Medium > bipin contacts used for T12 NO, T10, T8 and T6 in standard lengths. > . From ~3000K to 6700K > > High Output > . T12 High Output variants: The HO and VHO T12 lamp use recessed > double contact to prevent interchange and operate by increasing the > current > (T12 NO > = 430 mA, HO = 800 mA, VHO = 1500 mA) . T5 High Output variants: The > T5 and > T5 HO use the same miniature bipin contact but require a load sensing > ballast. > > Under/Overdriving > . Ballast power factor is the ratio of the lamp design current over > the supplied ballast current. > . For example a energy saving T12 ballasts can have 0.88 power factor > resulting in 2775 lumens X 0.88 = 2376. > . Fluorescent lamps can be "overdriven" with a high power factor > ballast, or creative wiring. Over-Driven Normal Output ODNO is covered > in depth here: > www.plantedtank.net/odno.html . Rule of thumb is 2X = 50%, 3X = 75% > lm, 4X = 100% increase. > . The member "Shalu" notes that some combinations actually become more > efficient when OD. Suggested that 2x OD 18" T8 outputs 2.5x light! > > Other lamps: > . Spiral Compact as screw in type. Total lm quoted, expect significant > loss to restrike. > . Reports that power compact (PC) are bent T5 with 55/66W power > dependent on ballast, not bulb. > . HID operation: How does an HID lamp work? > > Contributors: > . "BlueRam" > . "Shalu" > Attached Images > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48023	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/7/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information

Amber, Both measurement s are parts of the whole. CRI (Color Rendition Index) is an indication of how close colors will look under the bulb as opposed to sunlight. Lumens is a measurement of output of light from the bulb. If you have a bulb that has an output of 100 lumens and a CRI of 98, and a bulb that has a CRI of 92 and an output of 1000 lumens, which would you pick? Myself? I'd pick the latter. At least then I'd see the fish, and the plants would actually be happier to get the light. What needs to be done is to choose a bulb with the best characteristics of several measurements, rather than focusing on the one someone says is important. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 12:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting information When reading sites I've often seen people refer to CRI (color rendition index) instead of Lumens to show how good a bulb is compared to others. Apparently the CRI will tell you how accurate the bulb is at producing the color spectrum properly. When doing a quick search I found a decent reference to explain it if anyone is confused about CRI means. http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/bp_mechanical/article/0,,HPRO_20151_3463292,00.h tml You want bulbs that have a 90 or higher CRI rating for live plants, from forums and such that I've sifted through (sorry no example links). The higher the rating the better obviously. Not to mention the proper Kelvin range (anywhere from 5000 to 10000 kelvin will work okay for plants, it's been found that a mixture of Kelvin ranges; such as a 6700K and a 10000K will produce more growth on plants than just one type of bulb). I also agree with one of the posters on the forum that Lainey linked, they mentioned that Lumens only refers to the color spectrum as WE humans see it, which isn't how the plants use it. Not sure how true this is, but I've seen people on other forums mention this as well. Anyone out there with that degree in lumenology want to "shed some light" on the problem? lol ;) Also doing a quick search I found that most of the coralife bulbs have a CRI of 94, so they seem pretty decent to me. I didn't find Lainey's special quad bulb though. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Presuming the OP in that thread is editing and compiling information > in the > first post, I don't see anything that makes it any simpler than most > of the > other articles I've seen on the net. There's nothing wrong with someone > doing an article like that and compiling information and links into one > source (I do that myself sometimes) but I'm still looking for that rather > easy to read article that contains a concise chart or set of > guidelines for > folks to use without having to have a degree in lumenology. ;-) > > Kind of like my "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon > Fish-Killing Rule..." which gives a simple stocking guideline based on > four > categories of fish sizes (Small, Medium, Medium-Large and Large). > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per .> > html > > http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule > <http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule> > > Sorry for the shameless plug! LOL > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting information > > I found this information at Planted Tank, not sure if it would be > useful to > people? I myself have no idea what it means, but I know Lenny was > wondering > about charts and stuff:) Also not sure it's going to transfer once I send > this. If not, it's at: > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types-l > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types- l> > umens-watts.html > > Preamble: > . This article is designed to compare several popular lighting types in > terms of power (Watts) and light (Lumens) only. Issues such as > spectrum and > lighting selection will not be addressed. > . Link to WPG: Lighting: the WPG rule > . Eric Olsen's comparison: Lighting Level for Aquatic Plants . Energy/area > method: foot-candles, lux, lumens, sunlight, PAR . DIY (do it yourself) > projects have an inherent risk above standard operation. Any DIY ideas > mentioned here are for completeness only and does not constitute and > endorsement. Water and electricity do not mix! > . Guides the PAR/PUR alternative for can be found at light compareand > DefBlog - PUR-efficiency list > > Nomenclature > > . Total intensity is expressed as lumens (lm). > . Power as Watts (W). > . Power levels: Normal Output (NO), High Output (HO), Very High Output > (VHO), and Over-Driven Normal Output (ODNO) > > Summary Table: > > * Quote: Buy Tools, Lighting, Electrical and DataComm Supplies at > GoodMart.com unless noted # fluorescent bulbs = 4', ## (high, - (quoted) - > low), lm/W from mean value ### multiplier of intensity to compare T12. Ie > 28W T5 = 1.37 W T-12. > Example 2 WPG T5 = 2.74 WPG T12. > +4hydroponics.com > > Incandescent bulbs > . Operation described here: Diagram of a Light Bulb . "Aquarium" 15 W bulb > ~7.4 lm/W. > . Color ~2850K > > Linear fluorescent lamps > . Operation described here: How do Fluorescent Lamps work? > . Bulb diameter: T-12 -> 12 one-eighths or 1.5". (T8 = 1") . Medium bipin > contacts used for T12 NO, T10, T8 and T6 in standard lengths. > . From ~3000K to 6700K > > High Output > . T12 High Output variants: The HO and VHO T12 lamp use recessed double > contact to prevent interchange and operate by increasing the current > (T12 NO > = 430 mA, HO = 800 mA, VHO = 1500 mA) . T5 High Output variants: The > T5 and > T5 HO use the same miniature bipin contact but require a load sensing > ballast. > > Under/Overdriving > . Ballast power factor is the ratio of the lamp design current over the > supplied ballast current. > . For example a energy saving T12 ballasts can have 0.88 power factor > resulting in 2775 lumens X 0.88 = 2376. > . Fluorescent lamps can be "overdriven" with a high power factor > ballast, or > creative wiring. Over-Driven Normal Output ODNO is covered in depth here: > www.plantedtank.net/odno.html . Rule of thumb is 2X = 50%, 3X = 75% > lm, 4X = > 100% increase. > . The member "Shalu" notes that some combinations actually become more > efficient when OD. Suggested that 2x OD 18" T8 outputs 2.5x light! > > Other lamps: > . Spiral Compact as screw in type. Total lm quoted, expect significant > loss > to restrike. > . Reports that power compact (PC) are bent T5 with 55/66W power > dependent on > ballast, not bulb. > . HID operation: How does an HID lamp work? > > Contributors: > . "BlueRam" > . "Shalu" > Attached Images > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/7/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting information

Very correct, but Lainey is/was having trouble finding the measurements of the coralife bulb that she has, so that she knows what to get that is a comparable light producing bulb, but not the same one. Without those measurements all we can do is try to help guide her somehow. I have read that T-2's and LED lighting are the most light production for the lowest watts, so if Lainey wants to go the less expensive (in the long run) route then those 2 types of lighting would be the best to look at for her new tank. CFL lighting that requires a ballast seems to have a short shelf life compared to all the other types of bulbs out there. The SHO CFL bulbs (the ones with a built in ballast that can fit into a normal incandescent socket) are supposedly a good alternative though, but you have to have more experience with wiring and DIY projects to make yourself your own hood with these types of bulbs. They are highly recommended by some people though. I know we have posted this link several times in the last year or so, but not sure if Lainey has seen it and looked it over. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Both measurement s are parts of the whole. CRI (Color Rendition Index) > is an > indication of how close colors will look under the bulb as opposed to > sunlight. Lumens is a measurement of output of light from the bulb. If you > have a bulb that has an output of 100 lumens and a CRI of 98, and a bulb > that has a CRI of 92 and an output of 1000 lumens, which would you pick? > > Myself? I'd pick the latter. At least then I'd see the fish, and the > plants > would actually be happier to get the light. > > What needs to be done is to choose a bulb with the best characteristics of > several measurements, rather than focusing on the one someone says is > important. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 12:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting information > > When reading sites I've often seen people refer to CRI (color rendition > index) instead of Lumens to show how good a bulb is compared to others. > Apparently the CRI will tell you how accurate the bulb is at producing > the color spectrum properly. > When doing a quick search I found a decent reference to explain it if > anyone is confused about CRI means. > > http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/bp_mechanical/article/0,,HPRO_20151_3463292,00.h > <http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/bp_mechanical/article/0,,HPRO_20151_3463292,00.h> > tml > > You want bulbs that have a 90 or higher CRI rating for live plants, from > forums and such that I've sifted through (sorry no example links). The > higher the rating the better obviously. Not to mention the proper Kelvin > range (anywhere from 5000 to 10000 kelvin will work okay for plants, > it's been found that a mixture of Kelvin ranges; such as a 6700K and a > 10000K will produce more growth on plants than just one type of bulb). > > I also agree with one of the posters on the forum that Lainey linked, > they mentioned that Lumens only refers to the color spectrum as WE > humans see it, which isn't how the plants use it. Not sure how true this > is, but I've seen people on other forums mention this as well. Anyone > out there with that degree in lumenology want to "shed some light" on > the problem? lol ;) > > Also doing a quick search I found that most of the coralife bulbs have a > CRI of 94, so they seem pretty decent to me. I didn't find Lainey's > special quad bulb though. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Presuming the OP in that thread is editing and compiling information > > in the > > first post, I don't see anything that makes it any simpler than most > > of the > > other articles I've seen on the net. There's nothing wrong with someone > > doing an article like that and compiling information and links into one > > source (I do that myself sometimes) but I'm still looking for that > rather > > easy to read article that contains a concise chart or set of > > guidelines for > > folks to use without having to have a degree in lumenology. ;-) > > > > Kind of like my "New Rules/Guidelines To Replace The 1" Per Gallon > > Fish-Killing Rule..." which gives a simple stocking guideline based on > > four > > categories of fish sizes (Small, Medium, Medium-Large and Large). > > > > > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per.> > > > > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per > <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per> > .> > > html > > > > http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule > <http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule> > > <http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule > <http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule>> > > > > Sorry for the shameless plug! LOL > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:18 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting information > > > > I found this information at Planted Tank, not sure if it would be > > useful to > > people? I myself have no idea what it means, but I know Lenny was > > wondering > > about charts and stuff:) Also not sure it's going to transfer once I > send > > this. If not, it's at: > > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types-l > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types-l> > > > > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types- > <http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21052-comparison-lighting-types-> > l> > > umens-watts.html > > > > Preamble: > > . This article is designed to compare several popular lighting types in > > terms of power (Watts) and light (Lumens) only. Issues such as > > spectrum and > > lighting selection will not be addressed. > > . Link to WPG: Lighting: the WPG rule > > . Eric Olsen's comparison: Lighting Level for Aquatic Plants . > Energy/area > > method: foot-candles, lux, lumens, sunlight, PAR . DIY (do it yourself) > > projects have an inherent risk above standard operation. Any DIY ideas > > mentioned here are for completeness only and does not constitute and > > endorsement. Water and electricity do not mix! > > . Guides the PAR/PUR alternative for can be found at light compareand > > DefBlog - PUR-efficiency list > > > > Nomenclature > > > > . Total intensity is expressed as lumens (lm). > > . Power as Watts (W). > > . Power levels: Normal Output (NO), High Output (HO), Very High Output > > (VHO), and Over-Driven Normal Output (ODNO) > > > > Summary Table: > > > > * Quote: Buy Tools, Lighting, Electrical and DataComm Supplies at > > GoodMart.com unless noted # fluorescent bulbs = 4', ## (high, - > (quoted) - > > low), lm/W from mean value ### multiplier of intensity to compare > T12. Ie > > 28W T5 = 1.37 W T-12. > > Example 2 WPG T5 = 2.74 WPG T12. > > +4hydroponics.com > > > > Incandescent bulbs > > . Operation described here: Diagram of a Light Bulb . "Aquarium" 15 > W bulb > > ~7.4 lm/W. > > . Color ~2850K > > > > Linear fluorescent lamps > > . Operation described here: How do Fluorescent Lamps work? > > . Bulb diameter: T-12 -> 12 one-eighths or 1.5". (T8 = 1") . Medium > bipin > > contacts used for T12 NO, T10, T8 and T6 in standard lengths. > > . From ~3000K to 6700K > > > > High Output > > . T12 High Output variants: The HO and VHO T12 lamp use recessed double > > contact to prevent interchange and operate by increasing the current > > (T12 NO > > = 430 mA, HO = 800 mA, VHO = 1500 mA) . T5 High Output variants: The > > T5 and > > T5 HO use the same miniature bipin contact but require a load sensing > > ballast. > > > > Under/Overdriving > > . Ballast power factor is the ratio of the lamp design current over the > > supplied ballast current. > > . For example a energy saving T12 ballasts can have 0.88 power factor > > resulting in 2775 lumens X 0.88 = 2376. > > . Fluorescent lamps can be "overdriven" with a high power factor > > ballast, or > > creative wiring. Over-Driven Normal Output ODNO is covered in depth > here: > > www.plantedtank.net/odno.html . Rule of thumb is 2X = 50%, 3X = 75% > > lm, 4X = > > 100% increase. > > . The member "Shalu" notes that some combinations actually become more > > efficient when OD. Suggested that 2x OD 18" T8 outputs 2.5x light! > > > > Other lamps: > > . Spiral Compact as screw in type. Total lm quoted, expect significant > > loss > > to restrike. > > . Reports that power compact (PC) are bent T5 with 55/66W power > > dependent on > > ballast, not bulb. > > . HID operation: How does an HID lamp work? > > > > Contributors: > > . "BlueRam" > > . "Shalu" > > Attached Images > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com> > <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com <http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com>> > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48025	From: Noura	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Guppies

Hi group, My Guppies in the 5 Guppy tank are not acting normally today. Their tails are not spread wide as usual and they're not as active as usual. Even the very young ones (2 - 4 weeks old) are showing the same problems. I just did a 20% PWC. And the previous PWC was performed last Wednesday. The Corys in the same tank are perfectly normal. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48026	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppies Hi group, My Guppies in the 5 Guppy tank are not acting normally today. Their tails are not spread wide as usual and they're not as active as usual. Even the very young ones (2 - 4 weeks old) are showing the same problems. I just did a 20% PWC. And the previous PWC was performed last Wednesday. The Corys in the same tank are perfectly normal. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48027	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 8:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppies Hi group, My Guppies in the 5 Guppy tank are not acting normally today. Their tails are not spread wide as usual and they're not as active as usual. Even the very young ones (2 - 4 weeks old) are showing the same problems. I just did a 20% PWC. And the previous PWC was performed last Wednesday. The Corys in the same tank are perfectly normal. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48028	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48029	From: Noura	Date: 5/8/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48030	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

I think it's just the increased bioload and likely very high hormone level that is causing the fish to be stressed. You do need to fix this though as stressed fish will far more likely to get sick. A 5G tank should probably not have more than a couple of guppies so it is way overstocked with just the eight adults. Then with all the fry and juvi, it's going to be even worse. While I don't normally use or recommend carbon, in the case of overstocked tanks, it should be used to help remove some of the dissolved organic compounds from the water... things that we know are there but we can't always test for. You will have to change out the carbon every week or two. You will still have to do more frequent PWC's as all of the fish put out hormones and more than likely, the hormone level in the tank is getting really high due to the number of fish and growing fish. If you don't do frequent, probably daily or more often, PWC's, the fry and juvis will be very likely to be stunted and stunting usually leads to other health problems. You should also be cleaning that polyester filter media in your filter at least once a week, for a normally stocked tank, so with your situation, you may have to clean it more often. Keep an eye on it. If the filter is doing it's job, it is catching a lot of fish poop, etc., so you need to flush the poop down a drain instead of leaving it in the tank where water is flowing through it and causing the poop to dissolve and become part of the dissolved organic compounds I mentioned earlier. Try rinsing/squeezing the polyester in some removed tank water until it's wringing clear and then replace it. That will keep the majority of the N-bacteria alive so you do not cause a mini-cycle in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 5:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48031	From: Duke Jason Griffiths of ShadowHyrst	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Growth Inhibiting Secretions, or hormones, like all biological/chemical actions, have a reaction on livining organisims. As Lenny states, more frequent water changes, less of a bio-load, cleaning filters are paramount in overall health and condition. If breeding guppies, 10 gal. are a minimum, 20's are better for raising young. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 1:06 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies I think it's just the increased bioload and likely very high hormone level that is causing the fish to be stressed. You do need to fix this though as stressed fish will far more likely to get sick. A 5G tank should probably not have more than a couple of guppies so it is way overstocked with just the eight adults. Then with all the fry and juvi, it's going to be even worse. While I don't normally use or recommend carbon, in the case of overstocked tanks, it should be used to help remove some of the dissolved organic compounds from the water... things that we know are there but we can't always test for. You will have to change out the carbon every week or two. You will still have to do more frequent PWC's as all of the fish put out hormones and more than likely, the hormone level in the tank is getting really high due to the number of fish and growing fish. If you don't do frequent, probably daily or more often, PWC's, the fry and juvis will be very likely to be stunted and stunting usually leads to other health problems. You should also be cleaning that polyester filter media in your filter at least once a week, for a normally stocked tank, so with your situation, you may have to clean it more often. Keep an eye on it. If the filter is doing it's job, it is catching a lot of fish poop, etc., so you need to flush the poop down a drain instead of leaving it in the tank where water is flowing through it and causing the poop to dissolve and become part of the dissolved organic compounds I mentioned earlier. Try rinsing/squeezing the polyester in some removed tank water until it's wringing clear and then replace it. That will keep the majority of the N-bacteria alive so you do not cause a mini-cycle in the tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 5:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48032	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so long as the fry are continually moved out. Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate the need for a cleaning. Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. The stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set for your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to worry about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for that will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or too expensive, or both to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48033	From: Noura	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to the 20G tomorrow. The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank fish? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so long as the fry are continually moved out. Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate the need for a cleaning. Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. The stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set for your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to worry about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for that will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or too expensive, or both to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48034	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

You can increase the amount of surface agitation which will allow for faster evaporation and cooling of the water. If you have a fan you can blow onto the top of the water, that will also help. Freezing bottles of water and floating them in the tank will also work. You'll have to keep an eye on the frozen bottle method until you learn how many bottles you need (I'm guessing just one 1/2 liter bottle with a 5G tank) and how often to change them out to keep things fairly consistent. Since you do not have room for more fish, you should either rehome the fry or allow the other fish to consume them... as they would do in nature. I'm not sure why your other adult guppies aren't doing it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to the 20G tomorrow. The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank fish? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so long as the fry are continually moved out. Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate the need for a cleaning. Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. The stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set for your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to worry about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for that will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or too expensive, or both to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48035	From: Duke Jason Griffiths of ShadowHyrst	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

What do you feed, and how often. Well fed adults will not nibble fry [if sufficient top cover as well]. Feedings of 5 x 6 times a day of flake, baby brine shrimp, and 'algae' are good ways to keep adults at their best...and help babies grow fast, especially with baby brine shrimp feedings. Mosquito larvae are even better at this time of year. ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to the 20G tomorrow. The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank fish? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so long as the fry are continually moved out. Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate the need for a cleaning. Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. The stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set for your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to worry about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for that will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or too expensive, or both to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48036	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/9/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Noura, OK on the heat. I thought that may be the situation, summer coming on. Guppies can take temperatures up to around 90°F (32°C). However, overcrowding will make it more difficult for them to survive it well. The warmer the water, the less oxygen it will hold in solution. Also, with a tank as small as 5 gallons, the temperature will fluctuate between the highs of the day and the lows at night. If the differential is too great, it will not be healthy for the fish to be bounced up and down the temperature scale on a regular basis. Lenny's idea of icing down the tank will help maintain a lower overall temperature, which will, in turn, help the fish. Moving some of the fish out will help. The reason the adults are not eating the fry may be due to the size the fry are now. One presumes that they have grown since birth, and will continue to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to the 20G tomorrow. The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank fish? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so long as the fry are continually moved out. Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate the need for a cleaning. Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. The stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set for your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to worry about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for that will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or too expensive, or both to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48037	From: Noura	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

I feed all my fish -except the Malawi Cichlid- a rotation of these foods: Good quality flakes, sardine sinking pellets, freeze-dried Shrimp and tubifex worms and blood worms (each of these is in a seperate can), frozen peas, fresh cucomber slices occasionally. I found the Guppies nutrition working very well, they grow to almost adult size in 3-4 months, and breeding like crazy. No wonder the Betta always seemed bloated with all these delecious live fry around! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Duke Jason Griffiths of ShadowHyrst To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 2:42 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies What do you feed, and how often. Well fed adults will not nibble fry [if sufficient top cover as well]. Feedings of 5 x 6 times a day of flake, baby brine shrimp, and 'algae' are good ways to keep adults at their best...and help babies grow fast, especially with baby brine shrimp feedings. Mosquito larvae are even better at this time of year. ----- Original Message ----- From: Noura To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to the 20G tomorrow. The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank fish? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so long as the fry are continually moved out. Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate the need for a cleaning. Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. The stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set for your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to worry about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for that will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or too expensive, or both to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48038	From: Noura	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

I just figured out what the problem is. It's the heat . All the Guppies seem worse today than yesterday inspite of all the procedures I've done. They're all below the surface shaking their bodies in a weird movemen. The temp is 32 outside, the hottest day in 2010 so far. I used to lose most of my Guppies during summer in the past years due to the high heat. I'll start the freezed bottles, and add an air stone. The frozen water bottles method was a life saver in my 20G when you guys advised to use it two years ago, and in that summer I didn't lose any young Guppies in that tank. Thanks for the insights Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 3:51 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies You can increase the amount of surface agitation which will allow for faster evaporation and cooling of the water. If you have a fan you can blow onto the top of the water, that will also help. Freezing bottles of water and floating them in the tank will also work. You'll have to keep an eye on the frozen bottle method until you learn how many bottles you need (I'm guessing just one 1/2 liter bottle with a 5G tank) and how often to change them out to keep things fairly consistent. Since you do not have room for more fish, you should either rehome the fry or allow the other fish to consume them... as they would do in nature. I'm not sure why your other adult guppies aren't doing it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 5:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to the 20G tomorrow. The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank fish? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so long as the fry are continually moved out. Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate the need for a cleaning. Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. The stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set for your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to worry about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for that will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or too expensive, or both to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48039	From: Noura	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Indeed it was the heat, Steve. I just sent a reply about this to the group. btw, there are fry aged 1-7 days, swimming around and not hiding, even though the adults are "begging" for food each time I pass by their tank! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 5:11 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, OK on the heat. I thought that may be the situation, summer coming on. Guppies can take temperatures up to around 90°F (32°C). However, overcrowding will make it more difficult for them to survive it well. The warmer the water, the less oxygen it will hold in solution. Also, with a tank as small as 5 gallons, the temperature will fluctuate between the highs of the day and the lows at night. If the differential is too great, it will not be healthy for the fish to be bounced up and down the temperature scale on a regular basis. Lenny's idea of icing down the tank will help maintain a lower overall temperature, which will, in turn, help the fish. Moving some of the fish out will help. The reason the adults are not eating the fry may be due to the size the fry are now. One presumes that they have grown since birth, and will continue to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to the 20G tomorrow. The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank fish? Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Szabo To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so long as the fry are continually moved out. Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate the need for a cleaning. Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. The stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set for your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to worry about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for that will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or too expensive, or both to do so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Thanks for the quick responses. The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: Parameter Current Usual Temp. 27 - 26 Nitrite 0 - 0 Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) KH 10 - 10 pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of their mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were added/removed since months. The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than a dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank than any of my other tanks). The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it in about a month. Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the healthiest. Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. Noura ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the normal parameters and the current parameters. How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase the bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the gravel and then rotting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- Noura, Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? \\Steve// ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, and possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48040	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Introduction

Hi, Everyone I just joined your group. I have had fresh water aquariums off and on for most of my life, mostly community tanks but did breed guppies/mollies/tetras when I was a teenager (long, long ago and far, far away <grin>). I had a marine tank (community fish mostly) a couple decades ago with low/moderate success. I have just moved and want to set up a marine tank; a few fish, some invertebrates etc. High on my list of occupants - goby that lives in a tunnel/cave, seahorse, anenome/clown fish. If they can get along hermit crabs, starfish, a few fish. I have a 30 gal tank with heater and undergravel filter so I know I have some revamping to do. Local resources are limited as I'm in a small Illinois town but I can buy online or for major purchases make a day trip to St Louis, I'm sure there must be fish stores there but haven't identified them yet. I have heard that a small pet store about 1/2 hr from here has "a" salt water tank and hope to visit there tomorrow. The array of items available is pretty overwhelming and I'm having a difficult time figuring out what I NEED and what would be a GOOD IDEA and what would be COOL EXTRAS so I can prioritize my shopping lists... input is welcome! Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48041	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Welcome to the group Janet :) I haven't tried my hands at a saltwater tank, but having only a 30 gallon tank may possibly limit you as it's not a very large tank and most saltwater tanks tend to be BIG. You will probably want to look at getting a good canister filter (that's the canister ones that sit below the tank with tubes going up into the tank, I recommend the Rena XP filtstar filters, they're very easy to clean and get primed for the first time and never have to prime it again unless you empty your hoses for some reason). You will also want to look at possibly getting a Sump for a saltwater setup, it adds water volume to work with (especially with your smaller tank), and a lot of people use the sump to acclimate saltwater creatures such as coral. Hope some of that helps, as I said I've never had a saltwater tank myself but I bought one and turned it into a freshwater tank so I know all the stuff I got with mine ;) LOL. Amber Janet224@... wrote: > > Hi, Everyone > > I just joined your group. I have had fresh water aquariums off and on for > most of my life, mostly community tanks but did breed > guppies/mollies/tetras when I was a teenager (long, long ago and far, far > away <grin>). I had a marine tank (community fish mostly) a couple > decades ago with low/moderate success. > > I have just moved and want to set up a marine tank; a few fish, some > invertebrates etc. High on my list of occupants - goby that lives in a > tunnel/cave, seahorse, anenome/clown fish. If they can get along hermit > crabs, starfish, a few fish. I have a 30 gal tank with heater and > undergravel filter so I know I have some revamping to do. Local resources > are limited as I'm in a small Illinois town but I can buy online or for > major purchases make a day trip to St Louis, I'm sure there must be fish > stores there but haven't identified them yet. I have heard that a small > pet store about 1/2 hr from here has "a" salt water tank and hope to visit > there tomorrow. > > The array of items available is pretty overwhelming and I'm having a > difficult time figuring out what I NEED and what would be a GOOD IDEA and > what would be COOL EXTRAS so I can prioritize my shopping lists... input > is welcome! > > Janet > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48042	From: William M	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

I have seen tanks like this when at first all of the young would be eaten but if several would survive then the adult guppies might not be able to Detroit which size babies were small enough to eat with out being too large. A five gallon tank is not large enough for more than just a few small fish or better yet as a quarantine or hospital tank. I would upgrade that tank to as large a tank as possible, a long tank being better than a high tank would be better being as how there will be more air service ratio for gas exchange. If you are getting good looking guppies, you might be able to take them to a fish store and exchange them for food or other things that you need. If you plant the tank heavily, the plants will use the impurities as fertilizer for growth) and the babies will be able to eat infusoria that is growing on the plants. I have often found fry of not to easy to breed fish in a heavily planted tank this way, the fry were able to hide from the parents and use the infusoria for first foods. I hope that this helps you some and not confuse you more. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Indeed it was the heat, Steve. I just sent a reply about this to the group. > btw, there are fry aged 1-7 days, swimming around and not hiding, even though the adults are "begging" for food each time I pass by their tank! > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 5:11 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > > > Noura, > > OK on the heat. I thought that may be the situation, summer coming on. > Guppies can take temperatures up to around 90°F (32°C). However, > overcrowding will make it more difficult for them to survive it well. The > warmer the water, the less oxygen it will hold in solution. Also, with a > tank as small as 5 gallons, the temperature will fluctuate between the highs > of the day and the lows at night. If the differential is too great, it will > not be healthy for the fish to be bounced up and down the temperature scale > on a regular basis. Lenny's idea of icing down the tank will help maintain a > lower overall temperature, which will, in turn, help the fish. > > Moving some of the fish out will help. > > The reason the adults are not eating the fry may be due to the size the fry > are now. One presumes that they have grown since birth, and will continue to > do so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive > and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed > to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I > guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. > > I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to > the 20G tomorrow. > The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the > filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the > room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. > > Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry > since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if > it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made > the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to > be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of > their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more > than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even > though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any > explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank > fish? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your > temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly > live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank > temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. > > Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of > fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry > and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so > long as the fry are continually moved out. > > Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a > minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least > once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate > the > need for a cleaning. > > Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have > caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues > before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. > The > stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set > for > your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen > measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to > worry > about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for > that > will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or > too expensive, or both to do so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Thanks for the quick responses. > > The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: > Parameter Current Usual > Temp. 27 - 26 > Nitrite 0 - 0 > Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) > GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) > KH 10 - 10 > pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) > > The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new > batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of > their > mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were > added/removed since months. > The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than > a > dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. > The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, > sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it > seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank > than any of my other tanks). > The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it > in > about a month. > > Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the > healthiest. > > Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. > > Noura > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the > normal parameters and the current parameters. > > How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase > the > bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the > growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to > get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the > gravel > and then rotting. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Noura, > > Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do > the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? > > \\Steve// > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sevenspringss@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to > > 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon > tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only > have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, > and > possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The > problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and > Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48043	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

Okay I just went to do my weekly filter/PWC and when I unplugged my rena xp 4 it suddenly BURST all along one side/corner of the canister. Am I stuck having to buy a whole new rena xp 4 or could I somehow silicone the crack? It's at least 2 1/2 inches long and all along one corner/side of the canister (the crack goes up and down with the corner of the canister, so it's now a weak point and could re-burst at any time if I siliconed it back together, but this is just my opinion. I don't know how well silicone holds up under pressure). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48044	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

Talking to myself, LOL. So doing a quick search on google I found that I can get a new canister for my rena xp4 (thank goodness! LOL). Is there still a way I could do a temporarily patch to keep it running until a new canister can get here? I unfortunately can't order one right now either, I'm too poor until Friday *sigh* I swear God is laughing at me right now... Either that or I have evil little gremlins following me around breaking things that I touch, I honestly have the worst luck ever. The canister literally burst the seam at the exact moment I unplugged it and went to unhook the hoses. then I had to hurry and get it untangled while water was pouring out onto the floor and rush it to the kitchen sink so it could finish draining. I have a huge puddle on the living room carpet (not unusual for me, again I have the worst luck, LOL). Everyone have a good laugh for me, trust me I'm laughing too, I'd be laughing more if I didn't have to replace the canister and clean up a big mess ;) Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > Okay I just went to do my weekly filter/PWC and when I unplugged my > rena xp 4 it suddenly BURST all along one side/corner of the canister. > Am I stuck having to buy a whole new rena xp 4 or could I somehow > silicone the crack? > It's at least 2 1/2 inches long and all along one corner/side of the > canister (the crack goes up and down with the corner of the canister, > so it's now a weak point and could re-burst at any time if I siliconed > it back together, but this is just my opinion. I don't know how well > silicone holds up under pressure). > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48045	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

Silicone won't hold under pressure but a two-part epoxy made for plastic should work... and would probably be a permanent repair. Of course, seeing pictures of the crack would make it easier for me to give a better opinion on this. How did this happen again? I'm presuming you unplugged the electric cord first. Is this when it happened or at some other point in the process? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 6:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem Okay I just went to do my weekly filter/PWC and when I unplugged my rena xp 4 it suddenly BURST all along one side/corner of the canister. Am I stuck having to buy a whole new rena xp 4 or could I somehow silicone the crack? It's at least 2 1/2 inches long and all along one corner/side of the canister (the crack goes up and down with the corner of the canister, so it's now a weak point and could re-burst at any time if I siliconed it back together, but this is just my opinion. I don't know how well silicone holds up under pressure). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48046	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

Check my most recent post, I already answered your question before you could ask ;) LOL. I have some two part epoxy around, but not sure if it's made for plastic or not, I will look. The crack goes from the very top of one corner nearly all the way to the bottom. I just examined it closer. Is it still possible to repair or should I just order a new one? It seems like it's a weak point now and any repair will likely break again at some point in time. I can take a picture if you want me to. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Silicone won't hold under pressure but a two-part epoxy made for plastic > should work... and would probably be a permanent repair. Of course, seeing > pictures of the crack would make it easier for me to give a better opinion > on this. > > How did this happen again? > > I'm presuming you unplugged the electric cord first. Is this when it > happened or at some other point in the process? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 6:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > Okay I just went to do my weekly filter/PWC and when I unplugged my > rena xp > 4 it suddenly BURST all along one side/corner of the canister. > Am I stuck having to buy a whole new rena xp 4 or could I somehow silicone > the crack? > It's at least 2 1/2 inches long and all along one corner/side of the > canister (the crack goes up and down with the corner of the canister, so > it's now a weak point and could re-burst at any time if I siliconed it > back > together, but this is just my opinion. I don't know how well silicone > holds > up under pressure). > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48047	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/10/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

I saw your second post but I'm still not sure how it broke. It just isn't plausible that unplugging the power would cause any kind of pressure surge to blow out the plastic reservoir... when any water could easily escape from either of the hoses going into the aquarium. As you know, I have two Rena Filstar's and have never noticed any kind of water pressure surge when unplugging the power cord. There is a slight surge when unclamping the hose connector but even it isn't very much. I'm really puzzled about this and if I were you, I would contact Rena to find out why/how this could happen. See below for contact info. As far as the repair. If you can open up the split into a V enough to work some 2-part epoxy between the crevice, it should fuse the crack so it would probably be tougher than the original. Of course, to keep it from leaking, getting it into the crack all the way at the bottom of the V will be the hardest part and you may have to use your finger to smear epoxy on both inside and outside of the bottom of the V so that some epoxy gets into the bottom of the V so that when the V is allowed to close, the epoxy is on both sides of the V and then you can wedge/clamp it somehow to keep it closed tightly while the epoxy sets. You could also smear any extra epoxy that you have on the inside of the split to further reinforce the split. Any excess that oozes out the top of the split, where the motor head will sit on, should be sanded down until it's smooth with the rest of the lip of the reservoir so the motor head seal will not leak. As I've said before, that plastic is pretty thick, nearly 1/4" thick, and is pretty dang strong so I'm still very unclear how this split happened. I bet Rena would be very interested in hearing about this and possibly they have had it happen before and there could be a secret recall where they will give you a new reservoir if they've had a batch of reservoirs that this has happened to where they had a flaw in the manufacturing process. There are LOTS of secret recalls on products. The only ones we hear about are when the defect is causing injury or loss of life.... human life. A leaking filter would not likely result in a public recall unless the filters were causing electrical fires or something like that. You can reach Rena through http://www.AquariumPharm.com General Help Hours of Operation: 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM Eastern Time (Monday through Friday) Product/Technical Support: (800) 847-0659 Mailing Address: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. PO Box 218 Chalfont, PA 18914-0218 Main Office: (215) 822-8181 Contact us via email, mailto:techservice@... or by using our Help Desk, http://www.aquariumpharm.com/help-desk/freshwater-questions.aspx Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 7:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem Check my most recent post, I already answered your question before you could ask ;) LOL. I have some two part epoxy around, but not sure if it's made for plastic or not, I will look. The crack goes from the very top of one corner nearly all the way to the bottom. I just examined it closer. Is it still possible to repair or should I just order a new one? It seems like it's a weak point now and any repair will likely break again at some point in time. I can take a picture if you want me to. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Silicone won't hold under pressure but a two-part epoxy made for plastic > should work... and would probably be a permanent repair. Of course, seeing > pictures of the crack would make it easier for me to give a better opinion > on this. > > How did this happen again? > > I'm presuming you unplugged the electric cord first. Is this when it > happened or at some other point in the process? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 6:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > Okay I just went to do my weekly filter/PWC and when I unplugged my > rena xp > 4 it suddenly BURST all along one side/corner of the canister. > Am I stuck having to buy a whole new rena xp 4 or could I somehow silicone > the crack? > It's at least 2 1/2 inches long and all along one corner/side of the > canister (the crack goes up and down with the corner of the canister, so > it's now a weak point and could re-burst at any time if I siliconed it > back > together, but this is just my opinion. I don't know how well silicone > holds > up under pressure). > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48048	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

As the saying goes, When all else fails there's always duct tape! All kidding aside, after the repair is made with epoxy, and seen that it doesn't leak, wrapping with duct tape should hold things together strongly enough to prevent this from happening again. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48049	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

Yeah.. I guess there's no harm but I'm still concerned how this thing broke in the first place. I might use the strapping tape with the nylon strands in it though since Duct Tape does stretch a little. Strapping tape won't stretch at all. It's not as good for overall stickiness compared to Duct Tape which is why Duct Tape is the overall NUMBER ONE emergency repair tool in the world!!!! No tool box or tool belt should be without a roll of Duct Tape! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 6:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem As the saying goes, When all else fails there's always duct tape! All kidding aside, after the repair is made with epoxy, and seen that it doesn't leak, wrapping with duct tape should hold things together strongly enough to prevent this from happening again. Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48050	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

SSHHHH!!! Maybe hubby accidentally tipped it over or dropped it and doesn't want to say anything that would get himself in trouble (LOL). For a crack like that to appear, I would picture it as being dropped rather than building up any pressure that could have blown it open. As you said, the inlet and outlet tubes/hoses would prevent any pressure build up as they'd relieve any expansion. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48051	From: ARINDAM	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

you can check my blog, http://arindba.blogspot.com/2009/10/easy-marine-water-tank-setup.html and http://arindba.blogspot.com/2009/10/my-first-marine-tank.html where I have explained STEP BY STEP saltwater aquarium creation. I am also a first time mariner and my 15G NANO tank is doing quite well with 4 fishes and 2 worms(feather duster) and lots of different colored algae. Mind you its a low tech low cost tank. Please have a look and let me know if you have any questions. Arindam On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > Welcome to the group Janet :) > I haven't tried my hands at a saltwater tank, but having only a 30 > gallon tank may possibly limit you as it's not a very large tank and > most saltwater tanks tend to be BIG. > You will probably want to look at getting a good canister filter (that's > the canister ones that sit below the tank with tubes going up into the > tank, I recommend the Rena XP filtstar filters, they're very easy to > clean and get primed for the first time and never have to prime it again > unless you empty your hoses for some reason). You will also want to look > at possibly getting a Sump for a saltwater setup, it adds water volume > to work with (especially with your smaller tank), and a lot of people > use the sump to acclimate saltwater creatures such as coral. > Hope some of that helps, as I said I've never had a saltwater tank > myself but I bought one and turned it into a freshwater tank so I know > all the stuff I got with mine ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Janet224@... wrote: >> >> Hi, Everyone >> >> I just joined your group. I have had fresh water aquariums off and on for >> most of my life, mostly community tanks but did breed >> guppies/mollies/tetras when I was a teenager (long, long ago and far, far >> away <grin>). I had a marine tank (community fish mostly) a couple >> decades ago with low/moderate success. >> >> I have just moved and want to set up a marine tank; a few fish, some >> invertebrates etc. High on my list of occupants - goby that lives in a >> tunnel/cave, seahorse, anenome/clown fish. If they can get along hermit >> crabs, starfish, a few fish. I have a 30 gal tank with heater and >> undergravel filter so I know I have some revamping to do. Local resources >> are limited as I'm in a small Illinois town but I can buy online or for >> major purchases make a day trip to St Louis, I'm sure there must be fish >> stores there but haven't identified them yet. I have heard that a small >> pet store about 1/2 hr from here has "a" salt water tank and hope to visit >> there tomorrow. >> >> The array of items available is pretty overwhelming and I'm having a >> difficult time figuring out what I NEED and what would be a GOOD IDEA and >> what would be COOL EXTRAS so I can prioritize my shopping lists... input >> is welcome! >> >> Janet >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48052	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

I honestly have no idea what caused the break, but it seems to have been something that was slowly growing and it's only completely cracked through in the middle of the canister (you'd think it'd be like the corner or something from dropping it or something similar). I bought the filter off ebay, so it's possible it was just a faulty filter and I never noticed the crack developing. I checked out my 2nd rena xp4 to make sure it didn't have a similar defect, and it has NO cracks that I can see. I 'm stumped as far as that goes. I did notice that Rena sells new canisters so they must break now and then to need replacement. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I saw your second post but I'm still not sure how it broke. It just isn't > plausible that unplugging the power would cause any kind of pressure surge > to blow out the plastic reservoir... when any water could easily > escape from > either of the hoses going into the aquarium. As you know, I have two Rena > Filstar's and have never noticed any kind of water pressure surge when > unplugging the power cord. There is a slight surge when unclamping the > hose > connector but even it isn't very much. I'm really puzzled about this > and if > I were you, I would contact Rena to find out why/how this could > happen. See > below for contact info. > > As far as the repair. If you can open up the split into a V enough to work > some 2-part epoxy between the crevice, it should fuse the crack so it > would > probably be tougher than the original. Of course, to keep it from leaking, > getting it into the crack all the way at the bottom of the V will be the > hardest part and you may have to use your finger to smear epoxy on both > inside and outside of the bottom of the V so that some epoxy gets into the > bottom of the V so that when the V is allowed to close, the epoxy is > on both > sides of the V and then you can wedge/clamp it somehow to keep it closed > tightly while the epoxy sets. You could also smear any extra epoxy > that you > have on the inside of the split to further reinforce the split. > > Any excess that oozes out the top of the split, where the motor head will > sit on, should be sanded down until it's smooth with the rest of the > lip of > the reservoir so the motor head seal will not leak. > > As I've said before, that plastic is pretty thick, nearly 1/4" thick, > and is > pretty dang strong so I'm still very unclear how this split happened. > > I bet Rena would be very interested in hearing about this and possibly > they > have had it happen before and there could be a secret recall where > they will > give you a new reservoir if they've had a batch of reservoirs that > this has > happened to where they had a flaw in the manufacturing process. There are > LOTS of secret recalls on products. The only ones we hear about are when > the defect is causing injury or loss of life.... human life. A leaking > filter would not likely result in a public recall unless the filters were > causing electrical fires or something like that. > > You can reach Rena through http://www.AquariumPharm.com > <http://www.AquariumPharm.com> > > General Help > > Hours of Operation: > 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM Eastern Time (Monday through Friday) > > Product/Technical Support: (800) 847-0659 > > Mailing Address: > Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. > PO Box 218 > Chalfont, PA 18914-0218 > Main Office: (215) 822-8181 > > Contact us via email, mailto:techservice@... > <mailto:techservice%40aquariumpharm.com> or by using our > Help Desk, > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/help-desk/freshwater-questions.aspx > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/help-desk/freshwater-questions.aspx> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 7:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > Check my most recent post, I already answered your question before you > could > ask ;) LOL. > I have some two part epoxy around, but not sure if it's made for > plastic or > not, I will look. The crack goes from the very top of one corner > nearly all > the way to the bottom. I just examined it closer. Is it still possible to > repair or should I just order a new one? It seems like it's a weak > point now > and any repair will likely break again at some point in time. > I can take a picture if you want me to. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Silicone won't hold under pressure but a two-part epoxy made for plastic > > should work... and would probably be a permanent repair. Of course, > seeing > > pictures of the crack would make it easier for me to give a better > opinion > > on this. > > > > How did this happen again? > > > > I'm presuming you unplugged the electric cord first. Is this when it > > happened or at some other point in the process? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 6:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > > > Okay I just went to do my weekly filter/PWC and when I unplugged my > > rena xp > > 4 it suddenly BURST all along one side/corner of the canister. > > Am I stuck having to buy a whole new rena xp 4 or could I somehow > silicone > > the crack? > > It's at least 2 1/2 inches long and all along one corner/side of the > > canister (the crack goes up and down with the corner of the canister, so > > it's now a weak point and could re-burst at any time if I siliconed it > > back > > together, but this is just my opinion. I don't know how well silicone > > holds > > up under pressure). > > > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48053	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

What about Guerrilla tape? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yeah.. I guess there's no harm but I'm still concerned how this thing > broke > in the first place. > > I might use the strapping tape with the nylon strands in it though since > Duct Tape does stretch a little. Strapping tape won't stretch at all. It's > not as good for overall stickiness compared to Duct Tape which is why Duct > Tape is the overall NUMBER ONE emergency repair tool in the world!!!! No > tool box or tool belt should be without a roll of Duct Tape! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 6:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > As the saying goes, When all else fails there's always duct tape! All > kidding aside, after the repair is made with epoxy, and seen that it > doesn't > leak, wrapping with duct tape should hold things together strongly > enough to > prevent this from happening again. Ray</HTML> > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48054	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

Hi Amber,   I would go with your first thought, replace the canister housing, period! The glue or epoxy will work but great care is needed AFTER to insure a solid and proper fit-up on the housing as Len mentioned.  Any irregularity or change will cause a leak or other problems.   As "Clint" would say:  "Do Ya Feel Lucky'?   Is it worth the hassle and worry or worse yet, risking hubby's wrath over finding a brand new in-door pool in the living room! <G>  Maybe, as also suggested a few mails ago, a quick call or message over to the manufacture.  They might be interested in the cause or failure of it?   Bill --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 11:17 AM I honestly have no idea what caused the break, but it seems to have been something that was slowly growing and it's only completely cracked through in the middle of the canister (you'd think it'd be like the corner or something from dropping it or something similar). I bought the filter off ebay, so it's possible it was just a faulty filter and I never noticed the crack developing. I checked out my 2nd rena xp4 to make sure it didn't have a similar defect, and it has NO cracks that I can see. I 'm stumped as far as that goes. I did notice that Rena sells new canisters so they must break now and then to need replacement. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > I saw your second post but I'm still not sure how it broke. It just isn't > plausible that unplugging the power would cause any kind of pressure surge > to blow out the plastic reservoir... when any water could easily > escape from > either of the hoses going into the aquarium. As you know, I have two Rena > Filstar's and have never noticed any kind of water pressure surge when > unplugging the power cord. There is a slight surge when unclamping the > hose > connector but even it isn't very much. I'm really puzzled about this > and if > I were you, I would contact Rena to find out why/how this could > happen. See > below for contact info. > > As far as the repair. If you can open up the split into a V enough to work > some 2-part epoxy between the crevice, it should fuse the crack so it > would > probably be tougher than the original. Of course, to keep it from leaking, > getting it into the crack all the way at the bottom of the V will be the > hardest part and you may have to use your finger to smear epoxy on both > inside and outside of the bottom of the V so that some epoxy gets into the > bottom of the V so that when the V is allowed to close, the epoxy is > on both > sides of the V and then you can wedge/clamp it somehow to keep it closed > tightly while the epoxy sets. You could also smear any extra epoxy > that you > have on the inside of the split to further reinforce the split. > > Any excess that oozes out the top of the split, where the motor head will > sit on, should be sanded down until it's smooth with the rest of the > lip of > the reservoir so the motor head seal will not leak. > > As I've said before, that plastic is pretty thick, nearly 1/4" thick, > and is > pretty dang strong so I'm still very unclear how this split happened. > > I bet Rena would be very interested in hearing about this and possibly > they > have had it happen before and there could be a secret recall where > they will > give you a new reservoir if they've had a batch of reservoirs that > this has > happened to where they had a flaw in the manufacturing process. There are > LOTS of secret recalls on products. The only ones we hear about are when > the defect is causing injury or loss of life.... human life. A leaking > filter would not likely result in a public recall unless the filters were > causing electrical fires or something like that. > > You can reach Rena through http://www.AquariumPharm.com > <http://www.AquariumPharm.com> > > General Help > > Hours of Operation: > 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM Eastern Time (Monday through Friday) > > Product/Technical Support: (800) 847-0659 > > Mailing Address: > Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. > PO Box 218 > Chalfont, PA 18914-0218 > Main Office: (215) 822-8181 > > Contact us via email, mailto:techservice@... > <mailto:techservice%40aquariumpharm.com> or by using our > Help Desk, > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/help-desk/freshwater-questions.aspx > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/help-desk/freshwater-questions.aspx> > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 7:19 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > Check my most recent post, I already answered your question before you > could > ask ;) LOL. > I have some two part epoxy around, but not sure if it's made for > plastic or > not, I will look. The crack goes from the very top of one corner > nearly all > the way to the bottom. I just examined it closer. Is it still possible to > repair or should I just order a new one? It seems like it's a weak > point now > and any repair will likely break again at some point in time. > I can take a picture if you want me to. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Silicone won't hold under pressure but a two-part epoxy made for plastic > > should work... and would probably be a permanent repair. Of course, > seeing > > pictures of the crack would make it easier for me to give a better > opinion > > on this. > > > > How did this happen again? > > > > I'm presuming you unplugged the electric cord first. Is this when it > > happened or at some other point in the process? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 6:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > > > Okay I just went to do my weekly filter/PWC and when I unplugged my > > rena xp > > 4 it suddenly BURST all along one side/corner of the canister. > > Am I stuck having to buy a whole new rena xp 4 or could I somehow > silicone > > the crack? > > It's at least 2 1/2 inches long and all along one corner/side of the > > canister (the crack goes up and down with the corner of the canister, so > > it's now a weak point and could re-burst at any time if I siliconed it > > back > > together, but this is just my opinion. I don't know how well silicone > > holds > > up under pressure). > > > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48055	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

Gorilla is just a brand of duct tape, just like Duck Tape is a brand... but supposedly the glue is stronger... like a Gorilla and the tape is thicker than normal silver duct tape. Personally, I think if you can open the V up enough to get at least some of the 2-part epoxy into the crack and then coat the inside and possibly the outside of the crack with 2-part epoxy as well, that area would be stronger than other parts of the reservoir. If I was going to use a tape on the outside, I would use strapping tape since it does not stretch. Duct tapes do not have linear nylon running the length of the tape, which is why it's easy to tear, but it also means it can stretch over time. If you were going to use a tape to try and reinforce the 2-part epoxy, which I don't think is really necessary, then use a strapping tape, not duct tape. If you can't open the V up, which from your description, the crack might not go down far enough to open the V up, then still use the 2-part epoxy but I would rough sand down the inside and outside surface areas of the reservoir about 1/2" on each side of the crack and then use the 2-part epoxy to make a 1" wide repair on the inside and outside. Lather on the epoxy thick enough so it's not just a thin film. Sanding the surface on both sides of the crack will give the epoxy something to adhere to better than the smooth plastic. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem What about Guerrilla tape? Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Yeah.. I guess there's no harm but I'm still concerned how this thing > broke in the first place. > > I might use the strapping tape with the nylon strands in it though > since Duct Tape does stretch a little. Strapping tape won't stretch at > all. It's not as good for overall stickiness compared to Duct Tape > which is why Duct Tape is the overall NUMBER ONE emergency repair tool > in the world!!!! No tool box or tool belt should be without a roll of Duct Tape! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> (Links to any articles referenced in > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 6:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > As the saying goes, When all else fails there's always duct tape! All > kidding aside, after the repair is made with epoxy, and seen that it > doesn't leak, wrapping with duct tape should hold things together > strongly enough to prevent this from happening again. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48056	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

I agree about replacing it Bill, my luck is not that great if you guys can tell ;) LOL. I happened to have a spare HOB aquaclear laying around that I cleaned up a bit better and swapped out some filter insides so it wouldn't need to cycle all over again, and at most have a mini-cycle. I took the good canister and replaced the one that broke downstairs and put the HOB on my 55 gallon tank for now since it doesn't need as much water flow as the tank downstairs with my little hillstream loach (only one left but it's one of the babies I had last year). So my filter situation is okay for now until I can get that canister replaced, then I can take the eheim off the 125 gallon and replace it with a rena xp4 like I've been wanting to do for ages, lol. I just didn't have the ambition to move all the filters around and swap stuff out. My rena xp4's did not have a manufacturer's warranty left on them, they were bought off of ebay "used" (worn boxes but actually the filters were brand new still wrapped in plastic inside the box), I have a feeling that one of my dented boxes may have been dropped either on the way here or before I bought them. I've had them for a little over a year now. I do plan on replacing the canister though, 60 bucks with free shipping is a good deal (Yes even Rena gives us Alaskans free shipping, woohoo! LOL). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > I would go with your first thought, replace the canister housing, period! > The glue or epoxy will work but great care is needed AFTER to insure a > solid and proper fit-up on the housing as Len mentioned. Any > irregularity or change will cause a leak or other problems. > > As "Clint" would say: "Do Ya Feel Lucky'? > > Is it worth the hassle and worry or worse yet, risking hubby's wrath > over finding a brand new in-door pool in the living room! <G> Maybe, > as also suggested a few mails ago, a quick call or message over to the > manufacture. They might be interested in the cause or failure of it? > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 11:17 AM > > I honestly have no idea what caused the break, but it seems to have been > something that was slowly growing and it's only completely cracked > through in the middle of the canister (you'd think it'd be like the > corner or something from dropping it or something similar). > I bought the filter off ebay, so it's possible it was just a faulty > filter and I never noticed the crack developing. I checked out my 2nd > rena xp4 to make sure it didn't have a similar defect, and it has NO > cracks that I can see. I 'm stumped as far as that goes. > I did notice that Rena sells new canisters so they must break now and > then to need replacement. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > I saw your second post but I'm still not sure how it broke. It just > isn't > > plausible that unplugging the power would cause any kind of pressure > surge > > to blow out the plastic reservoir... when any water could easily > > escape from > > either of the hoses going into the aquarium. As you know, I have two > Rena > > Filstar's and have never noticed any kind of water pressure surge when > > unplugging the power cord. There is a slight surge when unclamping the > > hose > > connector but even it isn't very much. I'm really puzzled about this > > and if > > I were you, I would contact Rena to find out why/how this could > > happen. See > > below for contact info. > > > > As far as the repair. If you can open up the split into a V enough > to work > > some 2-part epoxy between the crevice, it should fuse the crack so it > > would > > probably be tougher than the original. Of course, to keep it from > leaking, > > getting it into the crack all the way at the bottom of the V will be the > > hardest part and you may have to use your finger to smear epoxy on both > > inside and outside of the bottom of the V so that some epoxy gets > into the > > bottom of the V so that when the V is allowed to close, the epoxy is > > on both > > sides of the V and then you can wedge/clamp it somehow to keep it closed > > tightly while the epoxy sets. You could also smear any extra epoxy > > that you > > have on the inside of the split to further reinforce the split. > > > > Any excess that oozes out the top of the split, where the motor head > will > > sit on, should be sanded down until it's smooth with the rest of the > > lip of > > the reservoir so the motor head seal will not leak. > > > > As I've said before, that plastic is pretty thick, nearly 1/4" thick, > > and is > > pretty dang strong so I'm still very unclear how this split happened. > > > > I bet Rena would be very interested in hearing about this and possibly > > they > > have had it happen before and there could be a secret recall where > > they will > > give you a new reservoir if they've had a batch of reservoirs that > > this has > > happened to where they had a flaw in the manufacturing process. > There are > > LOTS of secret recalls on products. The only ones we hear about are when > > the defect is causing injury or loss of life.... human life. A leaking > > filter would not likely result in a public recall unless the filters > were > > causing electrical fires or something like that. > > > > You can reach Rena through http://www.AquariumPharm.com > <http://www.AquariumPharm.com> > > <http://www.AquariumPharm.com <http://www.AquariumPharm.com>> > > > > General Help > > > > Hours of Operation: > > 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM Eastern Time (Monday through Friday) > > > > Product/Technical Support: (800) 847-0659 > > > > Mailing Address: > > Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. > > PO Box 218 > > Chalfont, PA 18914-0218 > > Main Office: (215) 822-8181 > > > > Contact us via email, mailto:techservice@... > <mailto:techservice%40aquariumpharm.com> > > <mailto:techservice%40aquariumpharm.com> or by using our > > Help Desk, > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/help-desk/freshwater-questions.aspx > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/help-desk/freshwater-questions.aspx> > > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/help-desk/freshwater-questions.aspx > <http://www.aquariumpharm.com/help-desk/freshwater-questions.aspx>> > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 7:19 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > > > Check my most recent post, I already answered your question before you > > could > > ask ;) LOL. > > I have some two part epoxy around, but not sure if it's made for > > plastic or > > not, I will look. The crack goes from the very top of one corner > > nearly all > > the way to the bottom. I just examined it closer. Is it still > possible to > > repair or should I just order a new one? It seems like it's a weak > > point now > > and any repair will likely break again at some point in time. > > I can take a picture if you want me to. > > > > Amber > > > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > Silicone won't hold under pressure but a two-part epoxy made for > plastic > > > should work... and would probably be a permanent repair. Of course, > > seeing > > > pictures of the crack would make it easier for me to give a better > > opinion > > > on this. > > > > > > How did this happen again? > > > > > > I'm presuming you unplugged the electric cord first. Is this when it > > > happened or at some other point in the process? > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>>> > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 6:46 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > > > > > Okay I just went to do my weekly filter/PWC and when I unplugged my > > > rena xp > > > 4 it suddenly BURST all along one side/corner of the canister. > > > Am I stuck having to buy a whole new rena xp 4 or could I somehow > > silicone > > > the crack? > > > It's at least 2 1/2 inches long and all along one corner/side of the > > > canister (the crack goes up and down with the corner of the > canister, so > > > it's now a weak point and could re-burst at any time if I siliconed it > > > back > > > together, but this is just my opinion. I don't know how well silicone > > > holds > > > up under pressure). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48057	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

More like I tipped it over or dropped it, LOL. I'm the clumsy one in the house. I don't remember dropping it, but y'know it could have happened at some point. Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > SSHHHH!!! Maybe hubby accidentally tipped it over or dropped it and > doesn't want to say anything that would get himself in trouble (LOL). > For a > crack like that to appear, I would picture it as being dropped rather > than > building up any pressure that could have blown it open. As you said, > the inlet > and outlet tubes/hoses would prevent any pressure build up as they'd > relieve > any expansion. Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48058	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem

I was considering fixing it, but I think it may be safer just to replace it, I'd rather not have it break again and this time NOT be there to quickly rush it to the sink, I'd like to not come home to an empty 125 gallon tank and dead fish :( Better safe than sorry. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Gorilla is just a brand of duct tape, just like Duck Tape is a > brand... but > supposedly the glue is stronger... like a Gorilla and the tape is thicker > than normal silver duct tape. > > Personally, I think if you can open the V up enough to get at least > some of > the 2-part epoxy into the crack and then coat the inside and possibly the > outside of the crack with 2-part epoxy as well, that area would be > stronger > than other parts of the reservoir. If I was going to use a tape on the > outside, I would use strapping tape since it does not stretch. Duct tapes > do not have linear nylon running the length of the tape, which is why it's > easy to tear, but it also means it can stretch over time. If you were > going > to use a tape to try and reinforce the 2-part epoxy, which I don't > think is > really necessary, then use a strapping tape, not duct tape. > > If you can't open the V up, which from your description, the crack > might not > go down far enough to open the V up, then still use the 2-part epoxy but I > would rough sand down the inside and outside surface areas of the > reservoir > about 1/2" on each side of the crack and then use the 2-part epoxy to > make a > 1" wide repair on the inside and outside. Lather on the epoxy thick enough > so it's not just a thin film. Sanding the surface on both sides of the > crack will give the epoxy something to adhere to better than the smooth > plastic. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > What about Guerrilla tape? > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Yeah.. I guess there's no harm but I'm still concerned how this thing > > broke in the first place. > > > > I might use the strapping tape with the nylon strands in it though > > since Duct Tape does stretch a little. Strapping tape won't stretch at > > all. It's not as good for overall stickiness compared to Duct Tape > > which is why Duct Tape is the overall NUMBER ONE emergency repair tool > > in the world!!!! No tool box or tool belt should be without a roll > of Duct > Tape! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>> > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of > > sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 6:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Argh! help with Rena XP 4 canister problem > > > > As the saying goes, When all else fails there's always duct tape! All > > kidding aside, after the repair is made with epoxy, and seen that it > > doesn't leak, wrapping with duct tape should hold things together > > strongly enough to prevent this from happening again. Ray</HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48059	From: Noura	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

I would love to have tanks that are densly planted. But it's not easy at all to grow plants in a hardness of 10 - 16 and a pH of 8. I can barely keep Anubias nana, and all the rest don't thrieve in winter and can't survive summer! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: William M To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppies I have seen tanks like this when at first all of the young would be eaten but if several would survive then the adult guppies might not be able to Detroit which size babies were small enough to eat with out being too large. A five gallon tank is not large enough for more than just a few small fish or better yet as a quarantine or hospital tank. I would upgrade that tank to as large a tank as possible, a long tank being better than a high tank would be better being as how there will be more air service ratio for gas exchange. If you are getting good looking guppies, you might be able to take them to a fish store and exchange them for food or other things that you need. If you plant the tank heavily, the plants will use the impurities as fertilizer for growth) and the babies will be able to eat infusoria that is growing on the plants. I have often found fry of not to easy to breed fish in a heavily planted tank this way, the fry were able to hide from the parents and use the infusoria for first foods. I hope that this helps you some and not confuse you more. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Indeed it was the heat, Steve. I just sent a reply about this to the group. > btw, there are fry aged 1-7 days, swimming around and not hiding, even though the adults are "begging" for food each time I pass by their tank! > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 5:11 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > > > Noura, > > OK on the heat. I thought that may be the situation, summer coming on. > Guppies can take temperatures up to around 90°F (32°C). However, > overcrowding will make it more difficult for them to survive it well. The > warmer the water, the less oxygen it will hold in solution. Also, with a > tank as small as 5 gallons, the temperature will fluctuate between the highs > of the day and the lows at night. If the differential is too great, it will > not be healthy for the fish to be bounced up and down the temperature scale > on a regular basis. Lenny's idea of icing down the tank will help maintain a > lower overall temperature, which will, in turn, help the fish. > > Moving some of the fish out will help. > > The reason the adults are not eating the fry may be due to the size the fry > are now. One presumes that they have grown since birth, and will continue to > do so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive > and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed > to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I > guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. > > I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to > the 20G tomorrow. > The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the > filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the > room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. > > Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry > since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if > it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made > the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to > be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of > their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more > than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even > though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any > explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank > fish? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your > temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly > live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank > temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. > > Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of > fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry > and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so > long as the fry are continually moved out. > > Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a > minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least > once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate > the > need for a cleaning. > > Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have > caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues > before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. > The > stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set > for > your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen > measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to > worry > about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for > that > will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or > too expensive, or both to do so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Thanks for the quick responses. > > The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: > Parameter Current Usual > Temp. 27 - 26 > Nitrite 0 - 0 > Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) > GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) > KH 10 - 10 > pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) > > The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new > batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of > their > mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were > added/removed since months. > The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than > a > dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. > The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, > sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it > seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank > than any of my other tanks). > The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it > in > about a month. > > Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the > healthiest. > > Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. > > Noura > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the > normal parameters and the current parameters. > > How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase > the > bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the > growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to > get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the > gravel > and then rotting. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Noura, > > Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do > the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? > > \\Steve// > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sevenspringss@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to > > 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon > tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only > have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, > and > possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The > problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and > Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48060	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Can you add some peat to the filter? Would that soften and lower PH? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 10:54:47 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppies I would love to have tanks that are densly planted. But it's not easy at all to grow plants in a hardness of 10 - 16 and a pH of 8. I can barely keep Anubias nana, and all the rest don't thrieve in winter and can't survive summer! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: William M To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppies I have seen tanks like this when at first all of the young would be eaten but if several would survive then the adult guppies might not be able to Detroit which size babies were small enough to eat with out being too large. A five gallon tank is not large enough for more than just a few small fish or better yet as a quarantine or hospital tank. I would upgrade that tank to as large a tank as possible, a long tank being better than a high tank would be better being as how there will be more air service ratio for gas exchange. If you are getting good looking guppies, you might be able to take them to a fish store and exchange them for food or other things that you need. If you plant the tank heavily, the plants will use the impurities as fertilizer for growth) and the babies will be able to eat infusoria that is growing on the plants. I have often found fry of not to easy to breed fish in a heavily planted tank this way, the fry were able to hide from the parents and use the infusoria for first foods. I hope that this helps you some and not confuse you more. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Indeed it was the heat, Steve. I just sent a reply about this to the group. > btw, there are fry aged 1-7 days, swimming around and not hiding, even though the adults are "begging" for food each time I pass by their tank! > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 5:11 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > > > Noura, > > OK on the heat. I thought that may be the situation, summer coming on. > Guppies can take temperatures up to around 90°F (32°C). However, > overcrowding will make it more difficult for them to survive it well. The > warmer the water, the less oxygen it will hold in solution. Also, with a > tank as small as 5 gallons, the temperature will fluctuate between the highs > of the day and the lows at night. If the differential is too great, it will > not be healthy for the fish to be bounced up and down the temperature scale > on a regular basis. Lenny's idea of icing down the tank will help maintain a > lower overall temperature, which will, in turn, help the fish. > > Moving some of the fish out will help. > > The reason the adults are not eating the fry may be due to the size the fry > are now. One presumes that they have grown since birth, and will continue to > do so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive > and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed > to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I > guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. > > I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to > the 20G tomorrow. > The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the > filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the > room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. > > Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry > since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if > it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made > the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to > be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of > their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more > than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even > though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any > explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank > fish? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your > temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly > live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank > temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. > > Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of > fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry > and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so > long as the fry are continually moved out. > > Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a > minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least > once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate > the > need for a cleaning. > > Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have > caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues > before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. > The > stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set > for > your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen > measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to > worry > about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for > that > will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or > too expensive, or both to do so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Thanks for the quick responses. > > The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: > Parameter Current Usual > Temp. 27 - 26 > Nitrite 0 - 0 > Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) > GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) > KH 10 - 10 > pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) > > The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new > batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of > their > mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were > added/removed since months. > The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than > a > dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. > The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, > sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it > seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank > than any of my other tanks). > The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it > in > about a month. > > Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the > healthiest. > > Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. > > Noura > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the > normal parameters and the current parameters. > > How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase > the > bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the > growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to > get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the > gravel > and then rotting. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Noura, > > Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do > the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? > > \\Steve// > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sevenspringss@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to > > 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon > tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only > have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, > and > possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The > problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and > Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48061	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Under normal circumstances, this can be used but with such hard water, and the necessity of frequent PWC's, it would take a LOT of work and a LOT of peat. I'm not sure if you (Laurie) were out here a while back when but we went over lots of options for Noura to soften her water but none were really viable or workable for her for various reasons, including making big batches of Peat Tea and using that as a portion of each water change. I think we also went over plants that would survive her hard water conditions but I don't think they were readily available in her country. Noura's situation keeps us all on our toes trying to keep things as easy as possible for her and as best as possible for the fish. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppies Can you add some peat to the filter? Would that soften and lower PH? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 10:54:47 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppies I would love to have tanks that are densly planted. But it's not easy at all to grow plants in a hardness of 10 - 16 and a pH of 8. I can barely keep Anubias nana, and all the rest don't thrieve in winter and can't survive summer! Noura ----- Original Message ----- From: William M To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppies I have seen tanks like this when at first all of the young would be eaten but if several would survive then the adult guppies might not be able to Detroit which size babies were small enough to eat with out being too large. A five gallon tank is not large enough for more than just a few small fish or better yet as a quarantine or hospital tank. I would upgrade that tank to as large a tank as possible, a long tank being better than a high tank would be better being as how there will be more air service ratio for gas exchange. If you are getting good looking guppies, you might be able to take them to a fish store and exchange them for food or other things that you need. If you plant the tank heavily, the plants will use the impurities as fertilizer for growth) and the babies will be able to eat infusoria that is growing on the plants. I have often found fry of not to easy to breed fish in a heavily planted tank this way, the fry were able to hide from the parents and use the infusoria for first foods. I hope that this helps you some and not confuse you more. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Indeed it was the heat, Steve. I just sent a reply about this to the group. > btw, there are fry aged 1-7 days, swimming around and not hiding, even though the adults are "begging" for food each time I pass by their tank! > > Noura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 5:11 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > > > Noura, > > OK on the heat. I thought that may be the situation, summer coming on. > Guppies can take temperatures up to around 90°F (32°C). However, > overcrowding will make it more difficult for them to survive it well. The > warmer the water, the less oxygen it will hold in solution. Also, with a > tank as small as 5 gallons, the temperature will fluctuate between the highs > of the day and the lows at night. If the differential is too great, it will > not be healthy for the fish to be bounced up and down the temperature scale > on a regular basis. Lenny's idea of icing down the tank will help maintain a > lower overall temperature, which will, in turn, help the fish. > > Moving some of the fish out will help. > > The reason the adults are not eating the fry may be due to the size the fry > are now. One presumes that they have grown since birth, and will continue to > do so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:21 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Taking the Betta out of the Guppy tank last week caused the fry to survive > and crowd the tank even more. I had to take him out because he always seemed > to be stuff and bloated with live fry as food. He never got enough! But I > guess the result was exchanging his bioload with the new fry's. > > I cleaned the filter, added carbon, and I'm planning to move some adults to > the 20G tomorrow. > The heat can't be turned down, summer is alreading kicking in, and the > filter is already set to 25C, so it's not doing anything these days as the > room temp elevates the tanks temp to 27. > > Strange enough those adult Guppies lost the habbit of eating the new fry > since I released a dozen of these at the age of 4 weeks. I don't know if > it's the big sudden number of small creatures moving all around that made > the adults not think of these as food? I'm still wondering. The fry used to > be in a clear plastic hatchery INSIDE the same tank for the first 4 weeks of > their lives, and no newly born fry could survive among the adults for more > than hours, now I see fry aged 1 - 7 days swimming almost fearless, even > though I left the tank unfed for 36 hours when I was out of town! Any > explanation? Should I use these fry as live food for the 20G community tank > fish? > > Noura > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Szabo > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:24 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > The water parameters you post look to be fine. The only thing is that your > temperature seems to be a bit high for guppies, though they can allegedly > live in higher temperatures. If you have enough control of the tank > temperature, bring it down to about 24° C. > > Your tank is definitely overstocked. You'll need to reduce the number of > fish in the tank. Maybe to a reverse trio of guppies along with a few fry > and a couple of pygmy cories would be the absolute maximum population, so > long as the fry are continually moved out. > > Right now you should probably be doing water changes every day, or, at a > minimum, every other day. Keep an eye on the filter and clean it at least > once a week, more often if the capture of particulates seems to indicate > the > need for a cleaning. > > Right now I am thinking that the effects of overcrowding in the tank have > caught up with you and alleviating that will resolve your current issues > before you start seeing worse effects in the guise of various diseases. > The > stepped up water changes will buy you some time to get new quarters set > for > your fish, but is no more than a temporary fix. While your nitrogen > measurements look good at this point, they are not the only things to > worry > about. Fish also release a number of other chemicals we do not test for > that > will affect the aquarium environment simply because it is too complex, or > too expensive, or both to do so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Thanks for the quick responses. > > The water parameters (Current - Usual ) are: > Parameter Current Usual > Temp. 27 - 26 > Nitrite 0 - 0 > Nitrate 15 - (25 - 50) > GH (between 10,16) -(between10,16) > KH 10 - 10 > pH 8.4 - (8.0 - 8.2) > > The only change made last week was taking the Betta out, and having a new > batch of Guppy fry just today ( They were just starting to come out of > their > mother when I noticed the tail problem). No driftwood or rocks were > added/removed since months. > The tank is a 5 G, There are about 8 adult and juvenile guppies, more than > a > dozen of small fry, 2 corys (aneus), and 3 live plants. > The tank's maintenance has always been intensive (20% PWC every 2 days, > sometimes several days in a raw, vacuuming the gravel once a week, and it > seems too much vacuuming because the water comes out cleaner in this tank > than any of my other tanks). > The filter is a bubble-up, with a polyster media, but I didn't change it > in > about a month. > > Inoticed that the new batch of fry (that was born today) seems to be the > healthiest. > > Steve, the last PWC was performed AFTER noticing the health problem. > > Noura > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Did you test your water? Are all parameters normal? If not, give us the > normal parameters and the current parameters. > > How many fry do you have? Remember, that as the fry grow, they increase > the > bioload DRAMATICALLY so tank maintenance needs to be increased to meet the > growing bioload. This also means vacuuming your gravel more frequently to > get any of the micro foods that will likely be falling down into the > gravel > and then rotting. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Noura, > > Fist thing to suspect is the water used in the water change, or did you do > the water change when you noticed the behavior change in your guppies? > > \\Steve// > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sevenspringss@... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Guppies > > Noura, You may have said in the past, but how many grown and how many 2 to > > 4 week old fry do you have in this tank? May I presume this is a 5 gallon > tank? I don't believe you meant to write "5 Guppy tank" (unless you only > have 5 Guppies in this tank). I could guess you are crowded in this tank, > and > possibly very crowded, but that will be determined by your answer. The > problem may also be seen as the result of your answers to \\Steve's// and > Lenny's questions. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48062	From: Noura	Date: 5/11/2010
Subject: Guppies update

Hello, My Guppies seem almost normal today, spreading their tails to the full, and acting normally. I lost 2 males though, and an elderly female has fin rot and possible white spot, which is being treated separately. I did filter cleaning, added carbon, and daily 20-25% PWCs. I also brought a few 0.350 lt bottles to freeze and use when necessary. The temperature outside has dropped 2 degrees today, this probably help the Guppies recover. Thanks for all the help you provided Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48063	From: environmom95112	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Dario female photo

Is anyone in possession of a good photo of a confirmed Dario Dario female? I have what I think is one, but since adding 2 males, *she* seems to be coloring up a bit. No where near what the males are, and she is larger than them as she has had more time in the RCS deli;) (I have also spoiled her with mosquito larvae) I'll post a photo of her this weekend

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48064	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Re: Dario female photo

While this website isn't one I normally rely on, it does have a lot of good pictures of Dario dario, mostly males but a few females next to the males for comparative purposes. I found the side using a Google Image search and it had some of the best photos on the Google Image search and it's a pretty good profile as well. It looks like it's more of a corporate site selling electronics and other stuff... but has an "Aquarium Info" section to it. http://www.future-digital.com/aquarium_info/info_freshwater_tropical_fish/da rio_dario_7.html Since you mention the female was getting lots of fresh live food and she is still drab compared to the males, it pretty much confirms that she is a female. I'm betting if the males had the same live RCS and mosquito larvae diet as the female, they would be showing even more coloration which would make her look drab again. This site also has a decent picture of a pair showing the male and female. Click on the picture (on the right of the three pics) and it will enlarge in a pop up window. Of course, *she* could also be coloring up better because *she* was stressed out being alone and that was causing *him* to look drab. If you do have two males and only one female, you need to work on more females... at least two females for each male. I know they're hard to come by. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of environmom95112 Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 2:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dario female photo Is anyone in possession of a good photo of a confirmed Dario Dario female? I have what I think is one, but since adding 2 males, *she* seems to be coloring up a bit. No where near what the males are, and she is larger than them as she has had more time in the RCS deli;) (I have also spoiled her with mosquito larvae) I'll post a photo of her this weekend

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48065	From: environmom95112	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Re: Dario female photo

Thanks Lenny, My google image searches did not include this site. It does say that mature females can have some color - I am pretty sure she is a female. Good site, and thanks again! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > While this website isn't one I normally rely on, it does have a lot of good > pictures of Dario dario, mostly males but a few females next to the males > for comparative purposes. I found the side using a Google Image search and > it had some of the best photos on the Google Image search and it's a pretty > good profile as well. It looks like it's more of a corporate site selling > electronics and other stuff... but has an "Aquarium Info" section to it. > > http://www.future-digital.com/aquarium_info/info_freshwater_tropical_fish/da > rio_dario_7.html > > Since you mention the female was getting lots of fresh live food and she is > still drab compared to the males, it pretty much confirms that she is a > female. I'm betting if the males had the same live RCS and mosquito larvae > diet as the female, they would be showing even more coloration which would > make her look drab again. > > This site also has a decent picture of a pair showing the male and female. > Click on the picture (on the right of the three pics) and it will enlarge in > a pop up window. > > Of course, *she* could also be coloring up better because *she* was stressed > out being alone and that was causing *him* to look drab. > > If you do have two males and only one female, you need to work on more > females... at least two females for each male. I know they're hard to come > by. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of environmom95112 > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 2:04 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dario female photo > > Is anyone in possession of a good photo of a confirmed Dario Dario female? > I have what I think is one, but since adding 2 males, *she* seems to be > coloring up a bit. No where near what the males are, and she is larger than > them as she has had more time in the RCS deli;) (I have also spoiled her > with mosquito larvae) > > > I'll post a photo of her this weekend >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48066	From: Noura	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

((Noura's situation keeps us all on our toes trying to keep things as easy as possible for her and as best as possible for the fish.)) LOL at your reply Lenny! Take it this way: You can all benefit from a brain teaser once in a while, that will also dig creativity out of you! As they say in my country "Need is the mother of invention" Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Under normal circumstances, this can be used but with such hard water, and > the necessity of frequent PWC's, it would take a LOT of work and a LOT of > peat. > > I'm not sure if you (Laurie) were out here a while back when but we went > over lots of options for Noura to soften her water but none were really > viable or workable for her for various reasons, including making big batches > of Peat Tea and using that as a portion of each water change. > > I think we also went over plants that would survive her hard water > conditions but I don't think they were readily available in her country. > > Noura's situation keeps us all on our toes trying to keep things as easy as > possible for her and as best as possible for the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppies > > Can you add some peat to the filter? Would that soften and lower PH? > > ~ Laurie > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48067	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/12/2010
Subject: Re: Guppies

Our saying is "Necessity is the mother of invention", but I think "need" and "necessity" are interchangeable... but over here, even that old saying should be changed to, "Necessity, want, need, drugs, booze, psychosis or maybe just too much time on our hands... is the mother of invention!"... considering some of the things that are being invented in recent history. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppies ((Noura's situation keeps us all on our toes trying to keep things as easy as possible for her and as best as possible for the fish.)) LOL at your reply Lenny! Take it this way: You can all benefit from a brain teaser once in a while, that will also dig creativity out of you! As they say in my country "Need is the mother of invention" Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Under normal circumstances, this can be used but with such hard water, > and the necessity of frequent PWC's, it would take a LOT of work and a > LOT of peat. > > I'm not sure if you (Laurie) were out here a while back when but we > went over lots of options for Noura to soften her water but none were > really viable or workable for her for various reasons, including > making big batches of Peat Tea and using that as a portion of each water change. > > I think we also went over plants that would survive her hard water > conditions but I don't think they were readily available in her country. > > Noura's situation keeps us all on our toes trying to keep things as > easy as possible for her and as best as possible for the fish. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Guppies > > Can you add some peat to the filter? Would that soften and lower PH? > > ~ Laurie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48068	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/13/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Hello janet:    Welcome to the group.  there is a lot of knowledge here so you should be able to get all your questions answered.  Are you looking to set up a reef tank or just a SW fish tank.  the occupants are quite different depending on which route you want to go.  Also, what size tank are you planning to use?    Anyway, have a great time here.  I enjoy being on here.  Even though I've been keeping fish for over thirty years I still pick up new info constantly fromthis group.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: "Janet224@..." <Janet224@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, May 10, 2010 11:22:00 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction   Hi, Everyone I just joined your group. I have had fresh water aquariums off and on for most of my life, mostly community tanks but did breed guppies/mollies/ tetras when I was a teenager (long, long ago and far, far away <grin>). I had a marine tank (community fish mostly) a couple decades ago with low/moderate success. I have just moved and want to set up a marine tank; a few fish, some invertebrates etc. High on my list of occupants - goby that lives in a tunnel/cave, seahorse, anenome/clown fish. If they can get along hermit crabs, starfish, a few fish. I have a 30 gal tank with heater and undergravel filter so I know I have some revamping to do. Local resources are limited as I'm in a small Illinois town but I can buy online or for major purchases make a day trip to St Louis, I'm sure there must be fish stores there but haven't identified them yet. I have heard that a small pet store about 1/2 hr from here has "a" salt water tank and hope to visit there tomorrow. The array of items available is pretty overwhelming and I'm having a difficult time figuring out what I NEED and what would be a GOOD IDEA and what would be COOL EXTRAS so I can prioritize my shopping lists... input is welcome! Janet [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48069	From: PrairieSpirit	Date: 5/13/2010
Subject: Items to trade...

Hi everyone, I have for trade 2 Whisper in tank power filters 10i brand new in in original box 1 50 wat heaters tetra HT10 in tank under water one in original box brand new 1 full bottle of flourish excel plant food, new never opened. 1 box of three whisper filter pads for the whisper in tank power filter 10i. 2 piece of Cholla Wood, both pieces about 6" long, plecos love it. I am willing to trade it for some beautiful Endlers (pure blood only) or some Corry catfish or maybe a some young Plecos or??. All of the supplies I offer here are not used, they are brand new never used in original box. I just bought too much and being new that is easy to do Please write me at: PrairieSpirit@... to enquire. Thank you Ivan South Dakota If you do not see a picture below, then go here to see it: http://abe.midco.net/prairiespirit/supplies1.jpg [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48070	From: greychildren	Date: 5/13/2010
Subject: Fish for trade not sales

As you all remember i was able by accident to breed my fire mouth and pink convict cychild. Here the issue i have i have about 50 young firecons in a 40g tank i need to give away these guys. open to trade offers, also i don't know how to ship this guys.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48071	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Yeast and CO2 Reactors

I came across an article on yeast in the kitchen where they discuss the yeast used for cooking. This made me think about aquarium CO2 reactors and the yeast recommended to be used with them. (yes, my mind does often work in curious ways.) This prompted a Google to see what was recommended on the web for use in CO2 reactors. No definitive answers here. Brewer's yeast was mentioned, and, unfortunately not covered in the article I read, but since booze used in recipes is already fermented, it was probably not thought to be relevant. Anyhow, if you would like to read the article, which I believe is publicly available, go to http://www.cooksillustrated.com/howto/detail.asp?docid=1703&Extcode=L0EN2AA0 0 http://tinyurl.com/25n2bwt There is also a related article that you need to be logged in to read about how yeast works in the cooking process. You can do a 14 day trial, or pay to play. This site is brought to you by the very same people who bring us America's Test Kitchen on PBS. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48072	From: Janis	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Wants to know

I am getting a 55gal tank with accessories and a eheim 2213 and 7 tetras. 1. I want to put the tetras in a 20 gal tank which has 6 tetras. The 20g tank originally had 12 tetras, 6 died of the bladder disease, not all at the same time. I only have a 10 gal tank I use for a sink tank. Can I add these new fish to this tank right away. 2. I plan on using the 55gal for my cory catfish....I have alot of them around 30. All from the same parents. Will this filter be enough for the corys. The corys are in a 46gal tank with a hob filter. Thanks in advance. Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48073	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Re: Yeast and CO2 Reactors

I often see Fleischmann's Yeast mentioned in DIY CO2 system articles and I know that's they same yeast they sell in the baking sections of many grocery stores. I just did a Google for Yeast, Baking Yeast and Brewing Yeast and the articles I found, including well-referenced Wiki articles, mention the same species of yeast for the most part, Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Apparently, there is a different strain used for lager instead of the one used for ale, S. uvarum. I've never done any home brewing but when I was last married, my ex-wife use to make these "Friendship Cakes" on a regular basis which took 30 days to make and sugar and fruit and a little Fleischmann's Yeast was used to get the "brew" started to make the fruit ferment for 30 days before being added into the final cake making process. You end up making three cakes, keep one and give the other two away with a small jar of starter juice for your friends to start off their 30 day "Friendship Cake" cycle and the chain-cake is supposed to continue until everyone in the world is eating that cake. :-P So \\Steve//, does "Cooks Illustrated" have a spring edition where the lady cooks wear only their aprons... and does it sell a lot more copies like the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition? :-P References: http://www.yeastgenome.org/ - SGDTM is a scientific database of the molecular biology and genetics of the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae, which is commonly known as baker's or budding yeast. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker's_yeast - Baker's yeast is also called Saccharomyces cerevisiae[1], which is the same species commonly used in alcoholic fermentation, and so is also called brewer's yeast. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewing - The dominant types of yeast used to make beer are ale yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) and lager yeast (Saccharomyces uvarum); their use distinguishes ale and lager http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast - The yeast species Saccharomyces cerevisiae has been used in baking and fermenting alcoholic beverages for thousands of years. NOTE - There were other yeast strains mentioned in other articles, that I will not get into. :-P Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 1:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Yeast and CO2 Reactors I came across an article on yeast in the kitchen where they discuss the yeast used for cooking. This made me think about aquarium CO2 reactors and the yeast recommended to be used with them. (yes, my mind does often work in curious ways.) This prompted a Google to see what was recommended on the web for use in CO2 reactors. No definitive answers here. Brewer's yeast was mentioned, and, unfortunately not covered in the article I read, but since booze used in recipes is already fermented, it was probably not thought to be relevant. Anyhow, if you would like to read the article, which I believe is publicly available, go to http://www.cooksillustrated.com/howto/detail.asp?docid=1703&Extcode=L0EN2AA0 0 http://tinyurl.com/25n2bwt There is also a related article that you need to be logged in to read about how yeast works in the cooking process. You can do a 14 day trial, or pay to play. This site is brought to you by the very same people who bring us America's Test Kitchen on PBS. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48074	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Re: Wants to know

It's always best to quarantine new fish for several weeks to a month to make sure they all appear to be healthy. You mention the 20G tank and the 10G tank in the same paragraph and then ask "Can I add these new fish to this tank right away?" so I'm not sure if you mean the 20G or 10G but I presume the 20G since you would not need to ask about putting them in a 10G tank for quarantine purposes. What is a "sink tank"? How long has it been since you've had health issues in the 20G tank? More than a month or more? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janis Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Wants to know I am getting a 55gal tank with accessories and a eheim 2213 and 7 tetras. 1. I want to put the tetras in a 20 gal tank which has 6 tetras. The 20g tank originally had 12 tetras, 6 died of the bladder disease, not all at the same time. I only have a 10 gal tank I use for a sink tank. Can I add these new fish to this tank right away. 2. I plan on using the 55gal for my cory catfish....I have alot of them around 30. All from the same parents. Will this filter be enough for the corys. The corys are in a 46gal tank with a hob filter. Thanks in advance. Janis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48075	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Re: Wants to know

Janis, You are getting a "new" used 55 w/some equipment & fish. You have a 20 with fish, of which some have been lost from "bladder" disease. You have a 10 you call a "sink" tank. You have some young corys in a 46. You wish to move the new tetras from the 55 to the 20. You wish to move the young corys to the 55. Now, some questions: In the 20, what kind of tetras do you have? Is "bladder" disease a reference to a problem with the swim bladder? How was it diagnosed? What steps did you take to cure it and prevent it from occurring again? Are there any other fish living in the 20? If so, what and what size are they? In the 55, what kind of tetras are coming with it? Are there any other fish, or just the tetras? Is the 55 in good shape right now, or is it going to need a major cleaning? What kind of health do the tetras appear to be in. What is a "sink" tank? What kind of corys do you have in the 46? How old are they? Some general observations for now. Unless you have small tetras, the 20 is likely to be near its capacity and may not be able to handle the new arrivals. The new arrivals will need to be quarantined. If they were residents of the 55, this may not be so important, if you know the history of the 55. Depending on the corys and their current size, the tank is likely to be overcrowded quickly, and you will need to do some fish shuffling or trading or selling to get a good balance. The 55 is likely to need a good cleaning. If this is the case, you will need to re-establish the cycle in that tank when it has been cleaned. This will likely mean a month before it can actually be put into service prior to adding the fish. Your original post does not contain enough information for us to make good judgments to relay to you with any degree of confidence. Use of the word tetra covers a lot of ground, from relatively small 1 inch fish to relative large fish 4-6 inches in length. They could be torpedo shaped, or they could be deep bodied. The use of the name cory also covers a lot of ground, though the shape is all the same, the fish come in various sizes with the smallest ones being about 1 inch or so, and the larger ones reaching to six inches in length. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janis Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Wants to know I am getting a 55gal tank with accessories and a eheim 2213 and 7 tetras. 1. I want to put the tetras in a 20 gal tank which has 6 tetras. The 20g tank originally had 12 tetras, 6 died of the bladder disease, not all at the same time. I only have a 10 gal tank I use for a sink tank. Can I add these new fish to this tank right away. 2. I plan on using the 55gal for my cory catfish....I have alot of them around 30. All from the same parents. Will this filter be enough for the corys. The corys are in a 46gal tank with a hob filter. Thanks in advance. Janis ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48076	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/15/2010
Subject: Re: Wants to know

Eheim's are generally high quality filters. Usually a lot more expensive than comparable filter systems from other brands which is why I haven't owned one yet.... but almost everything I've ever read about them in forums over the years was positive. The problem with putting new fish in an existing tank with other fish is that if one of the new fish has a parasite like Ich or some other pathogen, it could spread to all of your existing fish. It's risky to do this but many people do it every day... usually things go OK but regularly, folks will show up in forums like this one with all of their fish being sick and the usual culprit is a new fish or fishes put in the tank without quarantining them first. If you know the source where you are getting these fish and know their fish are healthy, then your chances are usually better but it's still risky. As far as the 10G that you've had running, just adding some gravel to it will help but not much if you don't have a source of ammonia in the tank or adding it daily. Further, I would do a large water change on the 10G tank before adding any fish to it if it's been running without anything in it for more than a week or so. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: jan1213@... [mailto:jan1213@...] Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 4:50 PM To: GoldLenny@... Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Wants to know Sick Tank, Its been over a month the last of my flame tip tetra died... I only have the albino tetra glowfish.. I wanted to put the new tetras in the 20 gal. My 10 gal tank has not been used for along time, even tho I have the heater and filter running. I just put in some gravel from my 20 gal to get the bacteria started, Do you have an opinion about the eheim 2313 filter I want to use with my corys........Thanks again Janis You mention the 20G tank and the 10G tank in the same paragraph and then ask "Can I add these new fish to this tank right away?" so I'm not sure if you mean the 20G or 10G but I presume the 20G since you would not need to ask about putting them in a 10G tank for quarantine purposes. What is a "sink tank"? How long has it been since you've had health issues in the 20G tank? More than a month or more?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48077	From: Noura	Date: 5/17/2010
Subject: Cichlid Engineer

Hi, My Kenyi Cichlid - now sized about 2.5 " - is digging the gravel below the two rocks that form a cave, and spitting the gravel away, "he" seems very busy oing that since this moring. I believe it's a male because it has grown to 2.5" while the other kenyi grow to only 2" , besides, it's losing its blue color and turning yellowish purple. I didn't notice and pairing in the cichlids tank, and I don't think they're mature to breed yet. In addition to that, I know they hold eggs in their mouths, so do they really need nests and caves to breed? This fish is literally digging a tunnel below the rock by removing the gravel. He's not showing aggression towards his Kenyi friend and the 4 Yellow Labs (2-3"). I'm curious, What is this behavior? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48078	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/17/2010
Subject: Re: Cichlid Engineer

They just like to dig, claiming a territory, females can do this too. Rocks should be on the bottom with no substrate underneath so the rocks cannot topple. They don't really need nests and caves to breed. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 3:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] Cichlid Engineer Hi, My Kenyi Cichlid - now sized about 2.5 " - is digging the gravel below the two rocks that form a cave, and spitting the gravel away, "he" seems very busy oing that since this moring. I believe it's a male because it has grown to 2.5" while the other kenyi grow to only 2" , besides, it's losing its blue color and turning yellowish purple. I didn't notice and pairing in the cichlids tank, and I don't think they're mature to breed yet. In addition to that, I know they hold eggs in their mouths, so do they really need nests and caves to breed? This fish is literally digging a tunnel below the rock by removing the gravel. He's not showing aggression towards his Kenyi friend and the 4 Yellow Labs (2-3"). I'm curious, What is this behavior? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48079	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/17/2010
Subject: Re: Cichlid Engineer

I cannot comment on the behavior of the kenyi, since I do not know the fish, however, I do want to say that I hope that your rock is firmly anchored and not able to come tumbling down upon your industrious fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 3:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Cichlid Engineer Hi, My Kenyi Cichlid - now sized about 2.5 " - is digging the gravel below the two rocks that form a cave, and spitting the gravel away, "he" seems very busy oing that since this moring. I believe it's a male because it has grown to 2.5" while the other kenyi grow to only 2" , besides, it's losing its blue color and turning yellowish purple. I didn't notice and pairing in the cichlids tank, and I don't think they're mature to breed yet. In addition to that, I know they hold eggs in their mouths, so do they really need nests and caves to breed? This fish is literally digging a tunnel below the rock by removing the gravel. He's not showing aggression towards his Kenyi friend and the 4 Yellow Labs (2-3"). I'm curious, What is this behavior? Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48080	From: Noura	Date: 5/18/2010
Subject: Re: Cichlid Engineer

They won't tumble, they're pyrmide shaped, 5-6" in diameter, so they're stable and not heavy. Anyway, I'll make sure he wears his safety helmet the next time he decides to do constructions! Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I cannot comment on the behavior of the kenyi, since I do not know the fish, > however, I do want to say that I hope that your rock is firmly anchored and > not able to come tumbling down upon your industrious fish. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 3:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Cichlid Engineer > > Hi, > My Kenyi Cichlid - now sized about 2.5 " - is digging the gravel below the > two rocks that form a cave, and spitting the gravel away, "he" seems very > busy oing that since this moring. I believe it's a male because it has grown > to 2.5" while the other kenyi grow to only 2" , besides, it's losing its > blue color and turning yellowish purple. I didn't notice and pairing in the > cichlids tank, and I don't think they're mature to breed yet. In addition to > that, I know they hold eggs in their mouths, so do they really need nests > and caves to breed? > This fish is literally digging a tunnel below the rock by removing the > gravel. He's not showing aggression towards his Kenyi friend and the 4 > Yellow Labs (2-3"). > > I'm curious, What is this behavior? > > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48081	From: Dustin	Date: 5/18/2010
Subject: BTA eviscerating

Ordered a BTA from an online source and received it today. It was in very terrible shape and is eviscerating it's guts pretty badly in my QT. Is there anything that can be done for it or is there no hope for it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48082	From: Dustin	Date: 5/18/2010
Subject: BTA eviscerating

I just received it today (Had to order on internet) and it was already in a bag with foul water and is doing very terrible. I have it in a QT right now, but it is spitting it's guts out pretty bad, but still has some tentacle movement. Is there any hope for this guy or is he a lost cause??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48083	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: BTA eviscerating

I know we have a few active SW/Reef tank owners out here but I'm not sure how good they are with really sick anemone's. I read a really good article about this situation a while back, where the anemone survived, probably on this site http://www.reefkeeping.com/index.htm (if you click on main cover page, it will bring you into site and then click on Past Issues to read all of their past issues) but I just did a couple of searches of their past issues and can't find the article right now. Turning to Google, I found this forum that has a long article about anemone's for beginners and the forum looks to be pretty busy so you might want to give them a try. Here's the article... http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=153667 Here's the anemone forum... http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=283 You might want to cross-post in their Sick Fish forum as well to make sure you get the fastest replies. http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=284 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dustin Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] BTA eviscerating I just received it today (Had to order on internet) and it was already in a bag with foul water and is doing very terrible. I have it in a QT right now, but it is spitting it's guts out pretty bad, but still has some tentacle movement. Is there any hope for this guy or is he a lost cause??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48084	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: BTA eviscerating

I just found the article I mentioned in my previous post. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/nftt/index.php Also, I didn't realize it but ReefKeeping.com FREE online SW/Reef Magazine also has their own forums so check them out as well. http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=119 Come back here and let us know how things are going... or give us links to your thread(s) so we can see for ourselves. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dustin Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] BTA eviscerating I just received it today (Had to order on internet) and it was already in a bag with foul water and is doing very terrible. I have it in a QT right now, but it is spitting it's guts out pretty bad, but still has some tentacle movement. Is there any hope for this guy or is he a lost cause??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48085	From: Ray	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: BTA eviscerating

Hi Dustin, Not being very familiar with marine animals (this group is most a freshwater forum), I didn't know what a "BTA" was, but your mention of "tentacle movement" prompted me to do a google search for BTA octopus. Found only one hit, but it mentioned "anemone." Which another search -- for BTA anemone -- I found that you're talking about a Bubble Tip Anemone. I'm not one of those salt water guru's that Lenny just mentioned, but until another one of us with more experience in the marine field comes on board after sunrise, I'll try to offer a few tips. For starters, but which you're probably aware, maintain this new anemone in as clean of water right now as you can, with increased aeration. These particular anemone's prefer a highe SG of nearer 1.025 -- certainly no lower than 1.023. They do best at a pH of between 8.1 and 8.4 with a carbonate hardness (dKH) of 8 o to 12 o. Their preferred temperature range is 75 o to 82 o; I would keep it around 78 o 0-- 79 o right now -- higher than its minimum required temperature to enable it's metabolism to be increased, along with allowing for an increased immune system -- yet still low enough for its medium (water) to hold a good amount of oxygen. I know, these are just some of the basics, and I can't be more specific, but until another here can advise you more maybe you'll see something here which you may have overlooked, which may help. Best of luck and hoping this critter will be better soon, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dustin" <lewis2325@...> wrote: > > I just received it today (Had to order on internet) and it was already in a bag with foul water and is doing very terrible. I have it in a QT right now, but it is spitting it's guts out pretty bad, but still has some tentacle movement. Is there any hope for this guy or is he a lost cause?? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48086	From: jamesjoy000@att.net	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: BTA eviscerating

Hi Dustin Dr. Ron Shimek recommends average temp of 82 degrees and sg 1.024 - 1.026 for host anemones. The current should be blown above the oral disk to help flush mucus and debris from their surface. He also says egestion or defecation is often mistaken for a malady. During this process it opens it's mouth wide and contracts its body and tentacles forcing all water, along with digested food, out of the mouth. The tentacles are tiny and the column contracted with often a mucus covered mass of material being released through the mouth. I have seen this happen most of the time after feeding. Hopefully you are mistaken :) joy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dustin" <lewis2325@...> wrote: > > I just received it today (Had to order on internet) and it was already in a bag with foul water and is doing very terrible. I have it in a QT right now, but it is spitting it's guts out pretty bad, but still has some tentacle movement. Is there any hope for this guy or is he a lost cause?? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48087	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question

Okay does anyone else out there have Dwarf Sag in their planted tanks? http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=189 It took awhile to get started but now it's growing like crazy and I hate to say it, but there's nothing dwarf about my dwarf sag, LOL. It's nearly as tall as my 55 gallon, and it's nearly time to "mow the grass" in my fishtank. Is the easiest way to cut a grass like plant with just a pair of scissors or does someone else have a better way? I'm a little clumsy so hopefully I don't cut any fish in half while trimming the dwarf sag down a bit, lol. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48088	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question

Hi Amber!   If your tank looks like the photo link you gave, you're going great guns!   What's the problem?  Too tall or long?  Trim with shears as you suggested.   Faster?  Sure, Weed-Whacker but who wants all that water on the floor! <g>   Sorry Amber--------couldn't resist, but it really looks great!  Does it do well in low-light?   Bill --- On Wed, 5/19/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 6:03 PM Okay does anyone else out there have Dwarf Sag in their planted tanks? http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=189 It took awhile to get started but now it's growing like crazy and I hate to say it, but there's nothing dwarf about my dwarf sag, LOL. It's nearly as tall as my 55 gallon, and it's nearly time to "mow the grass" in my fishtank. Is the easiest way to cut a grass like plant with just a pair of scissors or does someone else have a better way? I'm a little clumsy so hopefully I don't cut any fish in half while trimming the dwarf sag down a bit, lol. Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48089	From: Paula Brown	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Plant Fertilizer

I bought some Jobe's plant fertilizer sticks today.  They are small sticks made for flowers and potted plants.  I can use these in my planted tanks, right?  Do I just break them (maybe in half?) and put them in the gravel by the planted plant?  Most of my plants in my planted tanks are in terra cotta pots so I could just stick it in there with the plant, right?  Just wanting to make sure this is safe for my fish before I move forward.  Thanks!   Paula in Monroe, Michigan   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48090	From: Lisa	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish

I ended up getting myself a globeeye goldfish and blackmoor, cause I have now converted my tank to a goldfish tank, with slightly above room temp water . If and when they get too big for the tank, I can trade them in for a smaller one later. But what my concern is. The orange globe eye seems to have like a black crust over half it's left eye. Only if the cutie would sit still long enough for me to get a close look at it. It LOOKS crusty. But it may well just be a slight colour variation. Also there are a small amount of scales missing on each side of the body. The only Tropical fish I have left is my albino BN catfish, who's only 3 inches roughly. The globe eye, is otherwise active and eating well. And poop is normal. There are no red sores, or scratches, and is about standard plumpness for a rounded bodied fish. Could this be a result of the tank it was in before I bought it? It was a planted Tank with 2 other fantails The blackmoore has no external issues. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48091	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Fertilizer

Some people have used them with success, others have reported excessive algae growth probably related to them. I think it depends on your plants and how well they are growing and using the nutrients put out by the fertilizer sticks and how the fertilizer sticks are utilized. If I was going to try them, I would go with smaller pieces and get it down into the bottom of the pot or if your pot has a hole in the bottom, lift the pot and poke the piece up in through the bottom to keep the fertilizer from getting into the water column as much. Since I don't use them, are they OK to have really close to roots OR are they supposed to be a certain distance away from the roots? This would also determine the best place to stick the piece of fertilizer stick. Using a smaller piece, maybe pea size, as needed and more frequently would be less likely to cause problems than using a larger piece hoping to not have to do the task as often. It wouldn't be as convenient for you but then if you get a ton of algae growth, that won't be very convenient either. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paula Brown Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:40 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plant Fertilizer I bought some Jobe's plant fertilizer sticks today.  They are small sticks made for flowers and potted plants.  I can use these in my planted tanks, right?  Do I just break them (maybe in half?) and put them in the gravel by the planted plant?  Most of my plants in my planted tanks are in terra cotta pots so I could just stick it in there with the plant, right?  Just wanting to make sure this is safe for my fish before I move forward.  Thanks!   Paula in Monroe, Michigan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48092	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question

This PlantedTank.net profile has some interesting comments. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/113-Dwarf_Sagittaria_Sagittaria_s ubulata.html One says that in a high tech, high light tank, it grew to a foot tall in a couple of months. Another says in a low light tank, it will grow tall, presumably trying to get closer to the light and goes on to say that in areas with strong light, it stays a couple of inches long. I guess that means it grows tall no matter what. ;-) Here's a thread that talks about your identical issue and there seems to be a couple of variants of dwarf sag with one staying shorter and the other being able to grow tall like yours. You obviously have the latter. ;-) http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/28082-dwar f-sags-not-so-dwarf-can.html One kind of newbie poster said they cut them down with scissors with no problems. Another more advanced poster said not to do this and to pull the longer plants out and pull any smaller plants with runners and re-plant them. What could be happening is that as they get too long, they get up higher to the light and get a LOT more light and that just makes them grow even longer/faster. Maybe trimming or pulling them while they are still shorter will keep them all at a more suitable level. This is also how the pruning of terrestrial trees and bushes work for the most part. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question Okay does anyone else out there have Dwarf Sag in their planted tanks? http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=189 It took awhile to get started but now it's growing like crazy and I hate to say it, but there's nothing dwarf about my dwarf sag, LOL. It's nearly as tall as my 55 gallon, and it's nearly time to "mow the grass" in my fishtank. Is the easiest way to cut a grass like plant with just a pair of scissors or does someone else have a better way? I'm a little clumsy so hopefully I don't cut any fish in half while trimming the dwarf sag down a bit, lol. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48093	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish

You should have at least a 55G tank for two fancy goldfish. If your tank is smaller, you will have to do more frequent PWC's, twice weekly or more depending on size of tank, weekly or more often gravel vacuuming and filter maintenance. They are more prone to health issues due to their intentional inbred birth defects, called "fancy features" for retail purposes, so keeping the water quality in good shape is very important for these fancy goldfish. They are not nearly as hardy as common goldfish. As far as the one eye, I haven't kept bubble eye (I'm guessing this is what your "globe eye" is) fancy goldfish before but I've seen tons of them in fish stores and pictures of them online. Since there is so much inbreeding involved in fancy goldfish and many of them are kept in mixed breeding tanks/ponds, many of them have calico in them and have spots on their bubbles like this one that I easily found with a Google Image search. http://www.petgoldfish.net/file/bubbleeye-goldfish.jpg Let me know if this is what you might be seeing. If it isn't this, then there is always a chance that the bubble eye had been damaged before... this is very easy to do... and it could just be scar tissue underneath some black pigmentation from a calico mix. This missing scales could also be related to an injury but could also be due to other health issues, parasites, etc. If you got these from a typical pet store or fish store, the first thing you should do is treat their tank with Hikari's PraziPro (which is praziquantel). It's a very mild antiparasite treatment and praziquantel is the same medication used in deworming pills for cats and dogs. I know you're down in Australia, so if you can't get Hikari's PraziPro, see if your veterinarian will give you a single deworming pill for a small dog or cat and then you can dissolve this in distilled water to make your own liquid treatment. If you do this, let me know what size pill you get and we can figure out a dosing treatment. It's hard to overdose with Prazi, even using 10X more than the needed dose, so we don't have to get too scientific as long as we're in the ballpark of a proper dose. Prazi mainly treats for internal parasites and things like gill flukes so you'll still have to keep an eye on the fish for signs of flashing, rubbing on gravel or decorations, or obvious signs of an external bacterial or parasitic issue and we can figure out proper treatment as these issues come up. See my Goldfish Care Sheet on my blog for more info on fancy goldfish. They should live at least 10 years and grow to around 6" to 8" long and just as big around which is why tank size is so important from their early years. If these fish get stunted, their already high propensity for health issues, due to all the inbreeding, only gets much worse. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish I ended up getting myself a globeeye goldfish and blackmoor, cause I have now converted my tank to a goldfish tank, with slightly above room temp water . If and when they get too big for the tank, I can trade them in for a smaller one later. But what my concern is. The orange globe eye seems to have like a black crust over half it's left eye. Only if the cutie would sit still long enough for me to get a close look at it. It LOOKS crusty. But it may well just be a slight colour variation. Also there are a small amount of scales missing on each side of the body. The only Tropical fish I have left is my albino BN catfish, who's only 3 inches roughly. The globe eye, is otherwise active and eating well. And poop is normal. There are no red sores, or scratches, and is about standard plumpness for a rounded bodied fish. Could this be a result of the tank it was in before I bought it? It was a planted Tank with 2 other fantails The blackmoore has no external issues. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48094	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question

I've trimmed house plants no problem when they overgrow just a bit too much, I'm not sure why someone would say NOT to trim the plant and pull the whole adult plant instead... the runners have very thick connections they're not very easy to break with just a fingernail so I'd have to get scissors to cut them easily and then try to replant (the pea gravel is a little larger than the plants like and it's actually hard to get things planted without knocking up too much dirt under the inch or so of gravel). I'm liking the scissors idea better than replanting the smaller runner plants ;) lol Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > This PlantedTank.net profile has some interesting comments. > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/113-Dwarf_Sagittaria_Sagittaria_s > ubulata.html > > One says that in a high tech, high light tank, it grew to a foot tall in a > couple of months. > > Another says in a low light tank, it will grow tall, presumably trying to > get closer to the light and goes on to say that in areas with strong > light, > it stays a couple of inches long. > > I guess that means it grows tall no matter what. ;-) > > Here's a thread that talks about your identical issue and there seems > to be > a couple of variants of dwarf sag with one staying shorter and the other > being able to grow tall like yours. You obviously have the latter. ;-) > > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/28082-dwar > f-sags-not-so-dwarf-can.html > > One kind of newbie poster said they cut them down with scissors with no > problems. Another more advanced poster said not to do this and to pull the > longer plants out and pull any smaller plants with runners and re-plant > them. > > What could be happening is that as they get too long, they get up > higher to > the light and get a LOT more light and that just makes them grow even > longer/faster. Maybe trimming or pulling them while they are still shorter > will keep them all at a more suitable level. This is also how the pruning > of terrestrial trees and bushes work for the most part. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question > > Okay does anyone else out there have Dwarf Sag in their planted tanks? > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=189 > It took awhile to get started but now it's growing like crazy and I > hate to > say it, but there's nothing dwarf about my dwarf sag, LOL. It's nearly as > tall as my 55 gallon, and it's nearly time to "mow the grass" > in my fishtank. > Is the easiest way to cut a grass like plant with just a pair of > scissors or > does someone else have a better way? > I'm a little clumsy so hopefully I don't cut any fish in half while > trimming > the dwarf sag down a bit, lol. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48095	From: Lisa	Date: 5/19/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish

Hi Lenny, You're always so helpful. -smiles- It's not a calico. 99.98 percent of it's body is metalic orange. So nothing like the picture you included. the 'bubble' is not as prominant on this one. Imagine what a blackmoor's eyes look like. It's like that. Offically the orange one was sold as a fantail. Regarding tank size, I'm planning a bigger tank anyway... Or the biggest one Space can afford. Which unlike my tv unit one was restricted to fit. I now have at least a wall to work with...in theory. It was interesting how you mentioned them being 'bred for show' thing though. And the neumerous breeding defects that come with it. But Have you not by now worked out that i'm a good fish mummy? Cause i do seek advice when needed. I did not get commons or commot goldfish for this reason, cause i was lead to believe the egg shaped fish don't get as long. Will Melafix work Lenny? Cause i can get that now. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48096	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish

Lisa, I'd not treat for anything just yet. Goldfish coloring is very variable, and what you are seeing is likely to just be a patch of color that is likely more a dark olive-brown than black. While color appearing on goldfish is more likely to happen when they are relatively young, it can happen at any time over their life. The olive-brown color is the color of the original fish, before it was bred for the "gold" color. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish Hi Lenny, You're always so helpful. -smiles- It's not a calico. 99.98 percent of it's body is metalic orange. So nothing like the picture you included. the 'bubble' is not as prominant on this one. Imagine what a blackmoor's eyes look like. It's like that. Offically the orange one was sold as a fantail. Regarding tank size, I'm planning a bigger tank anyway... Or the biggest one Space can afford. Which unlike my tv unit one was restricted to fit. I now have at least a wall to work with...in theory. It was interesting how you mentioned them being 'bred for show' thing though. And the neumerous breeding defects that come with it. But Have you not by now worked out that i'm a good fish mummy? Cause i do seek advice when needed. I did not get commons or commot goldfish for this reason, cause i was lead to believe the egg shaped fish don't get as long. Will Melafix work Lenny? Cause i can get that now. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48097	From: Ray	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question

Hi Amber, I've had Sagittaria subulata a number of times (it's one of my favorites). I have no idea why it's called a "dwarf Sagittaria" although it may only be because the leaves are much narrower compared to the Giant Sagittaria (Sagittaria platyphylla) which is used in the aquarium in similar applications. BTW, there is another "giant Sagittaria" ( Sag. montevidensis) which is not to be confused with this one -- just as there are other "dwarf" Sag. This (Sag. subulata) is a staple background plant used universally for just that purpose (it gets tall) -- I've never seen it grow short in any kind of light -- even strong light where it would not have to "reach" for it. I've used it in aquascapes in both 20 Gallon High's and 29 Gallon tanks -- but have not yet used it in a 55 -- and I've always had it in moderately strong light. I was growing it for years in a 20H (16" high) that received two hours of direct Eastern sun exposure and 6 hours of 2 1/2 Watts-per-gallon artificial lighting. Under those conditions it not only grew to the surface, but grew across the top of it for several inches. I would occassionally get flower stalks from them that bloomed above the surface. Likewise, with the 29 gallon (18" high), it always at least reached the top, sometimes extending a bit over the surface. I don't know exactly what you were expecting, but by the looks of it it seems like you wanted a lower-growing plant. Another favorite Sagittaria of mine, for foreground planting, is Micro Sagittaria (Sagittaria microfolia) which only gets to 1" to 2" high at the most and spreads along the gravel like a carpet-- it's really nice. You may want something a bit taller though, I don't know, but if so you may want to look into getting Sag. eatonii ("Eaton's Sagittaria") which gets to about 6" high -- Sag. teres is similar -- or Sag. graminea which gets to around 8" high (and has 1" wide leaves), if you can find them. I know of no other way to trim them except for trimming the tops with scissors, but they may get brown tips where they were cut. Best to leave that job to the Scissortail Rasboras (LOL) -- or get a Pacu !!! -- they love plants. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay does anyone else out there have Dwarf Sag in their planted tanks? > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=189 > It took awhile to get started but now it's growing like crazy and I hate > to say it, but there's nothing dwarf about my dwarf sag, LOL. It's > nearly as tall as my 55 gallon, and it's nearly time to "mow the grass" > in my fishtank. > Is the easiest way to cut a grass like plant with just a pair of > scissors or does someone else have a better way? > I'm a little clumsy so hopefully I don't cut any fish in half while > trimming the dwarf sag down a bit, lol. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48098	From: Ray	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Fertilizer

There may be a fertilizer-ratio statement on the back of your pack of Jobes sticks. They represent the three sources of plant nutrition that are most necessary for plant growth -- as, Nitrate, Phosphate and Potassium -- in that order. Jobes produces many types of fertilizers, one having a 20-10-5 ratio, which would have double the amount of nitrate needed for aquatic plants. A house plant fertilizer they produce has a 13-4-5 ratio, although I'm not sure what your bought for your flowers and potted plants. While the "13" of this Jobes fertilizer (if this is what you have) that I just mentioned is not all that much higher than the Nitrate needs of aquatic plants, the Phosphate of this fertilizer is particularly lacking in suffucient nutrient for aquatic plants. To give you an idea of what is needed by aquatic plants, Plantabb produces an aquatic plant fertilizer (in the form of a pill) that has a ratio of 10-14-8 -- much closer to the needs of aquatic plants than any of Jobes terrestrial plant fertilizers. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Brown <paulabrown4480@...> wrote: > > I bought some Jobe's plant fertilizer sticks today.  They are small sticks made for flowers and potted plants.  I can use these in my planted tanks, right?  Do I just break them (maybe in half?) and put them in the gravel by the planted plant?  Most of my plants in my planted tanks are in terra cotta pots so I could just stick it in there with the plant, right?  Just wanting to make sure this is safe for my fish before I move forward.  Thanks! >   > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48099	From: Ray	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish

Lisa, While, as you say, the "egg shaped fish don't get as long" (as the Comets or common Goldfish), what they lack in length they make up for in girth. They may not become quite as large as straight-tailed Goldfish in overall bulk, but they're not that far from it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > Hi Lenny, You're always so helpful. -smiles- > It's not a calico. 99.98 percent of it's body is metalic orange. So nothing like the picture you included. the 'bubble' is not as prominant on this one. > Imagine what a blackmoor's eyes look like. It's like that. > Offically the orange one was sold as a fantail. > > Regarding tank size, I'm planning a bigger tank anyway... Or the biggest one Space can afford. Which unlike my tv unit one was restricted to fit. I now have at least a wall to work with...in theory. > > It was interesting how you mentioned them being 'bred for show' thing though. And the neumerous breeding defects that come with it. > But Have you not by now worked out that i'm a good fish mummy? > Cause i do seek advice when needed. > > I did not get commons or commot goldfish for this reason, cause i was lead to believe the egg shaped fish don't get as long. > > Will Melafix work Lenny? Cause i can get that now. > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48100	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish

Are the eyeball's lens/pupil on the end of the bulb like a Black Moor's or is the bulb like an inflated sac under the eye, with the eye ball still connected to the fish's body, like a bubble eye? When you say "Officially, the orange one was sold as a fantail.", do you mean that the sac didn't start inflating until after you got it home or did it already have the bubble eye sac? While it's true that round-bodied goldfish do not grow as long as long-bodied goldfish, their body mass is often the same, except for REALLY big common goldfish, which can grow up to 24" long. An 8" round-body goldfish is as BIG as a 16" long-body goldfish as far as body mass. They can tolerate a smaller tank like a 55G because they do not swim as much or as fast. Fast swimming fish should have a tank at least 8X longer than the fish where slow swimmers do fine with only 6X longer. As part of my article "New Rules/Guidelines to replace the 1" per gallon fish-killing rule", I incorporate this tank length guideline into my stocking formula's and suggestions. http://tinyurl.com/New-Rules-Replace-1-Rule FOR http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-rules-guidelines-to-replace-1-per. html As far as rehoming or swapping your goldfish when they get larger, it's possible to do and the pet store will probably be more than happy to do it since a larger fish will sell for much more than the smaller ones... BUT you may have more personal trouble rehoming a goldfish compared to many other fish. Most fish are just fish, but fish like Goldfish, Oscars and many other mostly larger breeds of fish actually have personalities and interact with their owner more like a terrestrial pet so people become much more attached to them. I don't think Melafix would help with this eye issue until we learn more about what it is (pictures would help!) but it wouldn't hurt as long as you do a full dosage and full treatment schedule. Whenever using antibiotics/antibacterial medicines, it's always best to use full doses for full schedules to help prevent resistant strains of bacteria from developing. I've never used Melafix as a preventative like I do with Hikari's PraziPro, which is the only preventative medication that I use. I wait until I'm reasonably sure of a specific illness before throwing other illness-specific medications into the water... 1) To save money; 2) Some medications can be just as rough on the fish as the illness itself, so using medications too often, especially if not needed, can be detrimental to a fish's health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish Hi Lenny, You're always so helpful. -smiles- It's not a calico. 99.98 percent of it's body is metalic orange. So nothing like the picture you included. the 'bubble' is not as prominant on this one. Imagine what a blackmoor's eyes look like. It's like that. Offically the orange one was sold as a fantail. Regarding tank size, I'm planning a bigger tank anyway... Or the biggest one Space can afford. Which unlike my tv unit one was restricted to fit. I now have at least a wall to work with...in theory. It was interesting how you mentioned them being 'bred for show' thing though. And the neumerous breeding defects that come with it. But Have you not by now worked out that i'm a good fish mummy? Cause i do seek advice when needed. I did not get commons or commot goldfish for this reason, cause i was lead to believe the egg shaped fish don't get as long. Will Melafix work Lenny? Cause i can get that now. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48101	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish

Good point \\Steve//. I probably should have told Lisa that her "gold" goldfish will not likely stay "gold". NONE of my gold fancy goldfish ever stayed gold, or their original coloration their entire lives. Some of my golds went white or a mix of white and gold, some got a bronze stomach area, many got some calico spotting. All of this is related to the inbreeding since almost all fancy goldfish are mutt's to one degree or another (actually all goldfish variants are the same species but the many fancies are mixed by some breeders to try and develop a new fancy feature)... at least the lower priced ones that we find at pet stores. I'm sure there are some really well bred fancy goldfish that will maintain it's coloration better but most of these fish start off in the double digit pricing and could get into the hundreds or even thousands of dollars from some fish collectors/enthusiasts. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish Lisa, I'd not treat for anything just yet. Goldfish coloring is very variable, and what you are seeing is likely to just be a patch of color that is likely more a dark olive-brown than black. While color appearing on goldfish is more likely to happen when they are relatively young, it can happen at any time over their life. The olive-brown color is the color of the original fish, before it was bred for the "gold" color. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Globe eye, and blackmoor goldfish Hi Lenny, You're always so helpful. -smiles- It's not a calico. 99.98 percent of it's body is metalic orange. So nothing like the picture you included. the 'bubble' is not as prominant on this one. Imagine what a blackmoor's eyes look like. It's like that. Offically the orange one was sold as a fantail. Regarding tank size, I'm planning a bigger tank anyway... Or the biggest one Space can afford. Which unlike my tv unit one was restricted to fit. I now have at least a wall to work with...in theory. It was interesting how you mentioned them being 'bred for show' thing though. And the neumerous breeding defects that come with it. But Have you not by now worked out that i'm a good fish mummy? Cause i do seek advice when needed. I did not get commons or commot goldfish for this reason, cause i was lead to believe the egg shaped fish don't get as long. Will Melafix work Lenny? Cause i can get that now. Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48102	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question

Well it's good to know that I didn't get some freakishly tall plant on accident ;) LOL. I like the looks of the dwarf sag, even though it's kinda tall. I already have to pull runners out when I clean the tank each week, otherwise the runners grow up to the surface and across it ;) I haven't seen any flower stalks though, didn't know it produced flowers. I actually wanted my bacopa to flower, but it never has, and it grows emergent when I let it as well ;) Guess it's time to mow the grass ;) Amber Ray wrote: > > Hi Amber, I've had Sagittaria subulata a number of times (it's one of > my favorites). I have no idea why it's called a "dwarf Sagittaria" > although it may only be because the leaves are much narrower compared > to the Giant Sagittaria (Sagittaria platyphylla) which is used in the > aquarium in similar applications. BTW, there is another "giant > Sagittaria" ( Sag. montevidensis) which is not to be confused with > this one -- just as there are other "dwarf" Sag. > > This (Sag. subulata) is a staple background plant used universally for > just that purpose (it gets tall) -- I've never seen it grow short in > any kind of light -- even strong light where it would not have to > "reach" for it. I've used it in aquascapes in both 20 Gallon High's > and 29 Gallon tanks -- but have not yet used it in a 55 -- and I've > always had it in moderately strong light. I was growing it for years > in a 20H (16" high) that received two hours of direct Eastern sun > exposure and 6 hours of 2 1/2 Watts-per-gallon artificial lighting. > Under those conditions it not only grew to the surface, but grew > across the top of it for several inches. I would occassionally get > flower stalks from them that bloomed above the surface. Likewise, with > the 29 gallon (18" high), it always at least reached the top, > sometimes extending a bit over the surface. > > I don't know exactly what you were expecting, but by the looks of it > it seems like you wanted a lower-growing plant. Another favorite > Sagittaria of mine, for foreground planting, is Micro Sagittaria > (Sagittaria microfolia) which only gets to 1" to 2" high at the most > and spreads along the gravel like a carpet-- it's really nice. You may > want something a bit taller though, I don't know, but if so you may > want to look into getting Sag. eatonii ("Eaton's Sagittaria") which > gets to about 6" high -- Sag. teres is similar -- or Sag. graminea > which gets to around 8" high (and has 1" wide leaves), if you can find > them. > > I know of no other way to trim them except for trimming the tops with > scissors, but they may get brown tips where they were cut. Best to > leave that job to the Scissortail Rasboras (LOL) -- or get a Pacu !!! > -- they love plants. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Okay does anyone else out there have Dwarf Sag in their planted tanks? > > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=189 > > It took awhile to get started but now it's growing like crazy and I > hate > > to say it, but there's nothing dwarf about my dwarf sag, LOL. It's > > nearly as tall as my 55 gallon, and it's nearly time to "mow the grass" > > in my fishtank. > > Is the easiest way to cut a grass like plant with just a pair of > > scissors or does someone else have a better way? > > I'm a little clumsy so hopefully I don't cut any fish in half while > > trimming the dwarf sag down a bit, lol. > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48103	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf Sag or grass like aquatic plant question

In spite of the misleading name, it grows as you and others have described. I would never cut or trim such a plant, but rather find something similar that is shorter. And the ideal plant for this is Echinodorus tenellus, the pygmy chain sword. I have both these plants in my 90g and the Sagittaria grows 2-3 times taller than E. tenellus, yet they have absolutely identical leaves. I can only tell them apart by the height, although E. tenellus does get considerably bushier. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay does anyone else out there have Dwarf Sag in their planted tanks? > http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=189 > It took awhile to get started but now it's growing like crazy and I hate > to say it, but there's nothing dwarf about my dwarf sag, LOL. It's > nearly as tall as my 55 gallon, and it's nearly time to "mow the grass" > in my fishtank. > Is the easiest way to cut a grass like plant with just a pair of > scissors or does someone else have a better way? > I'm a little clumsy so hopefully I don't cut any fish in half while > trimming the dwarf sag down a bit, lol. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48104	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Fertilizer

These should not be used in an aquarium. They are made for terrestrial plants, and these have much different nutrient requirements from aquatic plants. A good substrate fertilizer is the Nutrafin Plant-Gro sticks. Another option is the Flourish root tabs. Both these provide the specific aquatic plant nutrients without the detrimental "side effects." And I'm thinking fish as well as plants; there are nutrients in terrestrial fertilizers that are better left out of an aquarium with fish, whether the substance or the amount. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Brown <paulabrown4480@...> wrote: > > I bought some Jobe's plant fertilizer sticks today.  They are small sticks made for flowers and potted plants.  I can use these in my planted tanks, right?  Do I just break them (maybe in half?) and put them in the gravel by the planted plant?  Most of my plants in my planted tanks are in terra cotta pots so I could just stick it in there with the plant, right?  Just wanting to make sure this is safe for my fish before I move forward.  Thanks! >   > Paula in Monroe, Michigan >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48105	From: Jon	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Hi everyone ( new member here)

Just wanted to say hi, I am new to the group. I have been doing fish for about 6 months, and I have two aquariums. My first one was a 30 gallon FW community, I currently have 2 angelfish, 1 platy, 5 redeye tetras, 1 bloodfin tetra ( I used to have four but they mysteriously died, my remaining one is happy and schooling with the redeyes), 3 cherry barbs and a goldclaw crab. I also have many different types of plants that are growing great. I also have a 75 gallon FOWLR SW aquarium its still pretty new so all I have is 3 chromis. I hope to soon get some black clowns and an angelfish, and eventually some low light or non photosynthetic corals ( I don't have the money for an exspensive light) I have somehow avoided all major diseases and I've had only minor problems, but if course there is always more to learn and hopefully I can share some knowledge also. Thanks for reading all of this ( I know it's too long lol) but im glad I have found this group and I'm looking forward to sharing my knowledge ( and inevitably getting some problems solved when they present themselves) Thanks, jonathan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48106	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Transfering tanks

I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep because my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer all that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial bacteria, but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as good. I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and this will stir up a major mess. Not sure what to do after that. Thank you for any ideas... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48107	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am afraid it cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in another tank. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep because > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer > all that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial bacteria, > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as > good. > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > this will stir up a major mess. > > Not sure what to do after that. > > Thank you for any ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48108	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

Remember, that in a planted tank, you do not have nearly as much nitrifying bacteria as in a non-planted tank, since the plants are using up the nitrogenous compounds (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate are all nitrogenous compounds) as soon as they are released by the fish or decaying detritus. Further, unless one has a UGF (under gravel filter), the majority of the nitrifying bacteria will be in their main filter media, not in the gravel. There will be some nitrifying bacteria living on the top surface of your gravel, that is exposed to oxygenated water but any of the deeper gravel will have very little nitrifying bacteria. Now, that said, there is a LOT of other bacteria, critters, etc., that make up an ecosystem that might or will be living in your current substrate, to help break down any detritus, so you want to minimize the ecological issues as much as possible. Are you planning on using a new substrate in the new tank or the current substrate? That is the first BIG question. From your post, it looks like you are going to try and use the current substrate. If this is the case, then you need to put some of the water (up to 50% or less, just enough for what you need in the holding tub), the fish, decorations and filter system in a holding tub/tank while you make the rest of the transfer. Put most of the rest of the water in the new tank, leaving a couple of inches in the old tank with the substrate and plants. What kind of substrate? Just gravel or do you have a more expensive plant helping substrate below the gravel? I kind of need to know this before continuing but I'll continue anyhow. Next, pull up your existing plants cutting the roots as far away from the plants as possible when you have to cut roots. Put them in a separate holding tub since the root balls will have lots of dirt in them. If you don't have a separate holding tub, put them in with the fish and the dirt will setting to the bottom or be filtered out. The water will just be murkier in the fish tub. Now, you are down to just your substrate. Depending on how your substrate was set up and hoping it is all the same kind of substrate and not a layered substrate... place a colander in the tank and using a slotted spoon or spatula or a kitty-litter box cleaner works well also, lift up the substrate and place it in the colander until mostly full. Lift the colander and let the murky dirty water drain and you can even slosh it around a little to get even more dirt/detritus out of the gravel. Place the colander in your new tank and slowly pour the gravel out onto the bottom. Repeat this as needed until you have transferred all of your gravel or as much as you need. The water will be murky but with no filter running, it will settle down... after you finish re-planting all of your plants which would be the next step. Once the new tank has the substrate and plants in place, give it a little while for most of the murkiness to settle down. Once it has, then you can transfer the decorations, filter system and fish from their holding tub to the new tank. Once this is done, running the filter system will help to remove any murkiness that is still lurking. DO NOT MESS WITH YOUR FILTERS DURING THIS PROCESS. In fact, it would have been best if you haven't fooled with your filter in the past week or so. If you did, hopefully you did proper filter maintenance which preserved as many of your N-bacteria as possible and they should have recovered a full colony by now. If your filters are really funky right now, then disregard the above and do proper filter maintenance, based on my article, to preserve as many N-bacteria as possible. The reason I say this is that the plants might or probably will go into shock for a while and will not be using up the nitrogenous waste as much so your N-bacteria in your filter system will be relied upon much more and any N-bacteria you have will double their colony size every 24-48 hours so you will have to check your ammonia/nitrite levels daily for the week or two after this transfer to make sure you are not having cycling issues. I think that covers it all and since I've been meaning to do a blog article about this topic, I'll probably use your Q & A in this thread as the basis for my blog article. Thanks for bringing this up! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep because my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer all that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial bacteria, but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as good. I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and this will stir up a major mess. Not sure what to do after that. Thank you for any ideas... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48109	From: jaiko	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems. the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing  gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am afraid it  cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well  in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in  another tank. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep because > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer > all that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial bacteria, > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as > good. > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > this will stir up a major mess. > > Not sure what to do after that. > > Thank you for any ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48110	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

Oops.. I should have looked at my entire list of emails before replying to your earlier email. But in either case, I think I covered this for you in my reply. The same instructions should work. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am afraid it cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in another tank. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep because > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer all > that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial bacteria, > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as > good. > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > this will stir up a major mess. > > Not sure what to do after that. > > Thank you for any ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48111	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

Good points. I probably didn't cover this as much in my earlier reply. After you transfer your fish from their holding tub/tank to the new tank, also transfer as much of that water as possible into the new tank. This way, the new tank's water parameters will be the same as the tank they originally were in since up to 50% of that tank's water went into the holding tub/tank and most of the rest of the water went into the new tank before the substrate and plants. Then the fish and water from the holding tank went into the new tank so most of the new tank's water was just the water from the old tank. Hopefully, you won't have to add more than another 25% of new water to the tank which would be the same as when doing a 25% PWC under normal circumstances. Minimizing any additional stress to the fish and plants is recommended during this transition. Normally, turning off the lights is recommended when transferring fish but the plants will probably need the lighting to help them recover so you can turn on the lights but if you see the fish acting too stressed, then turn them off. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jaiko Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems. the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am afraid it cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in another tank. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep because > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer all > that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial bacteria, > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as > good. > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > this will stir up a major mess. > > Not sure what to do after that. > > Thank you for any ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48112	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

On a side note... Greychildren... when did you change your name to jaiko? I forget what use to show up as your name out here but I don't remember it being jaiko. Lenny -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jaiko Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems. the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am afraid it cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in another tank. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep because > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer all > that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial bacteria, > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as > good. > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > this will stir up a major mess. > > Not sure what to do after that. > > Thank you for any ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48113	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

Excellent and helpful, Lenny. This sounds manageable. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Remember, that in a planted tank, you do not have nearly as much > nitrifying > bacteria as in a non-planted tank, since the plants are using up the > nitrogenous compounds (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate are all nitrogenous > compounds) as soon as they are released by the fish or decaying > detritus. > Further, unless one has a UGF (under gravel filter), the majority > of the > nitrifying bacteria will be in their main filter media, not in the > gravel. > There will be some nitrifying bacteria living on the top surface of > your > gravel, that is exposed to oxygenated water but any of the deeper > gravel > will have very little nitrifying bacteria. > > Now, that said, there is a LOT of other bacteria, critters, etc., > that make > up an ecosystem that might or will be living in your current > substrate, to > help break down any detritus, so you want to minimize the > ecological issues > as much as possible. > > Are you planning on using a new substrate in the new tank or the > current > substrate? That is the first BIG question. From your post, it looks > like > you are going to try and use the current substrate. > > If this is the case, then you need to put some of the water (up to > 50% or > less, just enough for what you need in the holding tub), the fish, > decorations and filter system in a holding tub/tank while you make > the rest > of the transfer. > > Put most of the rest of the water in the new tank, leaving a couple of > inches in the old tank with the substrate and plants. > > What kind of substrate? Just gravel or do you have a more expensive > plant > helping substrate below the gravel? I kind of need to know this before > continuing but I'll continue anyhow. > > Next, pull up your existing plants cutting the roots as far away > from the > plants as possible when you have to cut roots. Put them in a separate > holding tub since the root balls will have lots of dirt in them. If > you > don't have a separate holding tub, put them in with the fish and > the dirt > will setting to the bottom or be filtered out. The water will just be > murkier in the fish tub. > > Now, you are down to just your substrate. Depending on how your > substrate > was set up and hoping it is all the same kind of substrate and not > a layered > substrate... place a colander in the tank and using a slotted spoon or > spatula or a kitty-litter box cleaner works well also, lift up the > substrate > and place it in the colander until mostly full. Lift the colander > and let > the murky dirty water drain and you can even slosh it around a > little to get > even more dirt/detritus out of the gravel. Place the colander in > your new > tank and slowly pour the gravel out onto the bottom. Repeat this as > needed > until you have transferred all of your gravel or as much as you > need. The > water will be murky but with no filter running, it will settle > down... after > you finish re-planting all of your plants which would be the next > step. > > Once the new tank has the substrate and plants in place, give it a > little > while for most of the murkiness to settle down. Once it has, then > you can > transfer the decorations, filter system and fish from their holding > tub to > the new tank. Once this is done, running the filter system will > help to > remove any murkiness that is still lurking. > > DO NOT MESS WITH YOUR FILTERS DURING THIS PROCESS. In fact, it > would have > been best if you haven't fooled with your filter in the past week > or so. If > you did, hopefully you did proper filter maintenance which > preserved as many > of your N-bacteria as possible and they should have recovered a > full colony > by now. > > If your filters are really funky right now, then disregard the > above and do > proper filter maintenance, based on my article, to preserve as many > N-bacteria as possible. > > The reason I say this is that the plants might or probably will go > into > shock for a while and will not be using up the nitrogenous waste as > much so > your N-bacteria in your filter system will be relied upon much more > and any > N-bacteria you have will double their colony size every 24-48 hours > so you > will have to check your ammonia/nitrite levels daily for the week > or two > after this transfer to make sure you are not having cycling issues. > > I think that covers it all and since I've been meaning to do a blog > article > about this topic, I'll probably use your Q & A in this thread as > the basis > for my blog article. Thanks for bringing this up! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks > > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep > because my > plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > thing there > is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is heavily > planted, I > can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer all that filthy > gravel to > the new tank, I am worried about the water quality and that the > fish will be > harmed by it. > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial > bacteria, but I > think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as good. > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > this will > stir up a major mess. > > Not sure what to do after that. > > Thank you for any ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48114	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

I haven't decided what new tank size to use yet. I am transferring many species of plants, maybe thirty. The 37 is well established. I will monitor the water params for the two weeks following the change, but I think I can pull this off. I am constantly digging up my plants and transplanting them into other tanks, so I'm not worried about the plants, just the fish. This is the tank where I have my blue rams, so hopefully they won't freak out. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, jaiko wrote: > How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my > 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems. > the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how > long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? > What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and > fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. > > --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM > > I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing > gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am afraid it > cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well > in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in > another tank. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep > because > > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer > > all that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water > > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial > bacteria, > > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad > bacteria as > > good. > > > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > > this will stir up a major mess. > > > > Not sure what to do after that. > > > > Thank you for any ideas... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48115	From: jaiko	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

that my real name i went legit..lol Lenny --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:48 PM   On a side note... Greychildren... when did you change your name to jaiko? I forget what use to show up as your name out here but I don't remember it being jaiko. Lenny -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jaiko Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems. the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am afraid it cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in another tank. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep because > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer all > that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial bacteria, > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as > good. > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > this will stir up a major mess. > > Not sure what to do after that. > > Thank you for any ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48116	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: New idea for my 37g

I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really like the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the plants are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the lighting from CFLs to T5s and have 96 watts of T5 over the tank right now. Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't grow much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants turn green. I do everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height of the tank. So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can use this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not sure that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for plants, that is really good at penetrating depths? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48117	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

I was drawing a blank about what name use to show up and it was bugging me that I couldn't recall so I just did a search in the group's messages and now I remember... Big Poppa. LOL I knew it wasn't Jaiko! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jaiko Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks that my real name i went legit..lol Lenny --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:48 PM On a side note... Greychildren... when did you change your name to jaiko? I forget what use to show up as your name out here but I don't remember it being jaiko. Lenny -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jaiko Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems. the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am afraid it cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in another tank. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep because > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer all > that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial bacteria, > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad bacteria as > good. > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > this will stir up a major mess. > > Not sure what to do after that. > > Thank you for any ideas... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48118	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... like halogen, metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef tanks are using for lighting and that's what you might want. There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper penetration from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site sells a reflector kit http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 from what I recall and I've seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or polished aluminum sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to make it reflect the normal Omni directional lighting of fluorescent into a more penetrating light. I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like used in the mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like fluorescent lighting. If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, you'll see lots of ideas. Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells reflectors. http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/lightingparts.php?c ategory_ID=80 OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and showed up in an image search for a reflector. If you look at the details of each of his tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and pictures of exploded view of lighting to show the various reflectors he uses. http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really like the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the plants are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the lighting from CFLs to T5s and have 96 watts of T5 over the tank right now. Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't grow much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants turn green. I do everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height of the tank. So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can use this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not sure that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for plants, that is really good at penetrating depths? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48119	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Plant Fertilizer

I use the Jobe's plant fertilizer tabs in my fish tanks on a regular basis with no ill side effects to the tank. fertilizer is fertilizer and most of them use the same basic nutrients for the fertilizers. Bat guano, bone meal, kelp meal, etc. If it's an organic fertilizer then it should be safe for aquatic life. The only detrimental side effects would be from a high phosphorus rating on the fertilizer which would cause algae problems. Jobe's fertilizer tabs are safe to be used if someone doesn't have access to an actual "aquatic plant" fertilizer such as the flourish root tabs. I use the jobe's for my dwarf lily in my 125 gallon tank, since they require higher fertilizer's than most low-medium light aquatic plants. The best thing to remember with any plant fertilizers is "best used with moderation" until you know how much you need for each plant at least. So yes Paula I would just break off a little chunk of the Jobe's fertilizer stick and push it down under the gravel into your terra cotta pots that your plants are potted in. I would probably take the plant out of the tank to put the fertilizer tab in it as you don't want it to start to break up in the water while you're trying to poke it into the gravel. Amber amphibian_ca wrote: > > These should not be used in an aquarium. They are made for terrestrial > plants, and these have much different nutrient requirements from > aquatic plants. A good substrate fertilizer is the Nutrafin Plant-Gro > sticks. Another option is the Flourish root tabs. Both these provide > the specific aquatic plant nutrients without the detrimental "side > effects." And I'm thinking fish as well as plants; there are nutrients > in terrestrial fertilizers that are better left out of an aquarium > with fish, whether the substance or the amount. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Paula Brown > <paulabrown4480@...> wrote: > > > > I bought some Jobe's plant fertilizer sticks today. They are small > sticks made for flowers and potted plants. I can use these in my > planted tanks, right? Do I just break them (maybe in half?) and put > them in the gravel by the planted plant? Most of my plants in my > planted tanks are in terra cotta pots so I could just stick it in > there with the plant, right? Just wanting to make sure this is safe > for my fish before I move forward. Thanks! > > > > Paula in Monroe, Michigan > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48120	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

Lenny - I don't really like the metal halides or halogens - do you know if the compact fluorescents would work if I cranked up the wattage? Or no matter how much wattage it still won't work? Thanks so much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... like > halogen, > metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef tanks are > using for > lighting and that's what you might want. > > There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper > penetration > from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site sells a reflector kit > http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 from what I recall > and I've > seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or polished aluminum > sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to make it reflect > the normal > Omni directional lighting of fluorescent into a more penetrating > light. > I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like used > in the > mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like > fluorescent > lighting. > > If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, you'll > see lots > of ideas. > > Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells reflectors. > > http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/ > lightingparts.php?c > ategory_ID=80 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv > > This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and showed > up in an > image search for a reflector. If you look at the details of each of > his > tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and pictures of exploded > view of > lighting to show the various reflectors he uses. > > http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > > I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really > like the > tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the plants are > too far > from the light so the lower level of the tank is disfunctional and > the plant > bases die back. I upgraded the lighting from CFLs to T5s and have > 96 watts > of T5 over the tank right now. > Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't > grow much on > the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants turn green. > I do > everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height of > the tank. > > So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. > But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new > equipment > when I already have perfectly good equipment. > > Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can use > this T5 > on another tank that would appreciate it. > > I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not sure > that's > true. Is there a light that would work specifically for plants, > that is > really good at penetrating depths? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48121	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hi everyone ( new member here)

Looks like you've jumped into the deep end of the pool with both FW and SW in your first six months. Welcome to the group! Be careful of that gold claw crab. It may need a land area as I believe it's from the same family of crabs as Fiddler Crabs but there are lots of different opinions about these or possibly due to folks not knowing exactly what species they have. Have you found the scientific name for yours? Many dwarf crabs are scavengers and peaceful but some can be good little hunters. I'm not sure how big your Angelfish are right now but they grow quite large 6" long by 9" tall and find smaller fish quite good as tank mates... mainly as snacks. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi everyone ( new member here) Just wanted to say hi, I am new to the group. I have been doing fish for about 6 months, and I have two aquariums. My first one was a 30 gallon FW community, I currently have 2 angelfish, 1 platy, 5 redeye tetras, 1 bloodfin tetra ( I used to have four but they mysteriously died, my remaining one is happy and schooling with the redeyes), 3 cherry barbs and a goldclaw crab. I also have many different types of plants that are growing great. I also have a 75 gallon FOWLR SW aquarium its still pretty new so all I have is 3 chromis. I hope to soon get some black clowns and an angelfish, and eventually some low light or non photosynthetic corals ( I don't have the money for an exspensive light) I have somehow avoided all major diseases and I've had only minor problems, but if course there is always more to learn and hopefully I can share some knowledge also. Thanks for reading all of this ( I know it's too long lol) but im glad I have found this group and I'm looking forward to sharing my knowledge ( and inevitably getting some problems solved when they present themselves) Thanks, jonathan

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48122	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

I would look at getting the best reflector action going on with your existing fluorescent lighting if you're only going to consider fluorescent lighting. The right reflector can take an omni directional bulb, which is what all fluorescent lighting is, and aim all that lighting down into the tank even making it more of a piercing or penetrating light. See the reflector on this page... http://www.marinedepot.com/Spiderlight_Reflector_with_Mogul_Socket_and_Brack et_Metal_Halide_Reflectors-Captive_Sun-CP5753-FILTACRAMH-vi.html OR http://tinyurl.com/2gywgbq I don't see pictures on the AHSupply site any longer but they use to show their DIY upgrade reflectors that were similarly bent/shaped to the above reflector so that a LOT more of the light got reflected down into the tank instead of what is called light re-strike where light gets reflected right back into the bulb instead of where you want it. So many light fixtures just have three-sided reflectors with one big flat side above the bulb and then two slightly angled sides, all of which are often just a plain white color and while these do a decent job of reflecting the light, they aren't nearly as good as a mirror type reflector with multiple angles so that there is little or no light re-strike. A better reflector can make a BIG difference in high light planted tanks. In simple terms, imagine a 60 watt bulb in a room with a black ceiling and no reflector. Then put a 6" mirror on one side of the bulb on the ceiling and you now see two 60 watt bulbs when you look at the mirror from a certain angle. BUT... it doesn't matter how many mirrors but rather the angle of reflection of the mirrors. Imagine six mirrors but the six mirrors form a box around the light bulb... so no light is getting out into the room but instead the light is just constantly reflecting and restriking over and over inside the box of mirrors. The room would be dark. Now, if you take those same six mirrors and angle them properly so they form a convex-type lens around the bulb, that same 60 watt bulb could become a spot light, like a flashlight aiming down into the middle of the room or if all six mirrors are just placed flat on the ceiling, then it would become a wide angle omni directional light that would appear brighter since you have the mirrors instead of the black ceiling as a reflector. OK.. enough of my rambling. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g Lenny - I don't really like the metal halides or halogens - do you know if the compact fluorescents would work if I cranked up the wattage? Or no matter how much wattage it still won't work? Thanks so much, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... like > halogen, metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef tanks > are using for lighting and that's what you might want. > > There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper > penetration from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site sells a > reflector kit > http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 from what I recall > and I've seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or polished > aluminum sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to make it > reflect the normal Omni directional lighting of fluorescent into a > more penetrating light. > I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like used in > the mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like > fluorescent lighting. > > If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, you'll see > lots of ideas. > > Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells reflectors. > > http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/ > lightingparts.php?c > ategory_ID=80 > > OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv > > This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and showed up > in an image search for a reflector. If you look at the details of each > of his tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and pictures of > exploded view of lighting to show the various reflectors he uses. > > http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > > I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really like > the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the plants > are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is > disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the lighting > from CFLs to T5s and have > 96 watts > of T5 over the tank right now. > Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't grow > much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants turn > green. > I do > everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height of the > tank. > > So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. > But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new > equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. > > Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can use > this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. > > I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not sure > that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for plants, > that is really good at penetrating depths? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48123	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: Hi everyone ( new member here)

Thanks for the welcome! I know some crabs are hunters, but this one has been in there for months so I'm not worried about her. And I will probably sell the angels when they get big they're only about 3 1/2 inches long now. Thanks for the warning though!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48124	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/20/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

OK, I better look into this since I'm not liking the halides and halos...I think improving the light is going to be easier than changing the tank! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 21, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I would look at getting the best reflector action going on with your > existing fluorescent lighting if you're only going to consider > fluorescent > lighting. The right reflector can take an omni directional bulb, > which is > what all fluorescent lighting is, and aim all that lighting down > into the > tank even making it more of a piercing or penetrating light. > > See the reflector on this page... > > http://www.marinedepot.com/ > Spiderlight_Reflector_with_Mogul_Socket_and_Brack > et_Metal_Halide_Reflectors-Captive_Sun-CP5753-FILTACRAMH-vi.html > > OR http://tinyurl.com/2gywgbq > > I don't see pictures on the AHSupply site any longer but they use > to show > their DIY upgrade reflectors that were similarly bent/shaped to the > above > reflector so that a LOT more of the light got reflected down into > the tank > instead of what is called light re-strike where light gets > reflected right > back into the bulb instead of where you want it. So many light > fixtures > just have three-sided reflectors with one big flat side above the > bulb and > then two slightly angled sides, all of which are often just a plain > white > color and while these do a decent job of reflecting the light, they > aren't > nearly as good as a mirror type reflector with multiple angles so > that there > is little or no light re-strike. A better reflector can make a BIG > difference in high light planted tanks. > > In simple terms, imagine a 60 watt bulb in a room with a black > ceiling and > no reflector. Then put a 6" mirror on one side of the bulb on the > ceiling > and you now see two 60 watt bulbs when you look at the mirror from > a certain > angle. BUT... it doesn't matter how many mirrors but rather the > angle of > reflection of the mirrors. Imagine six mirrors but the six mirrors > form a > box around the light bulb... so no light is getting out into the > room but > instead the light is just constantly reflecting and restriking over > and over > inside the box of mirrors. The room would be dark. Now, if you take > those > same six mirrors and angle them properly so they form a convex-type > lens > around the bulb, that same 60 watt bulb could become a spot light, > like a > flashlight aiming down into the middle of the room or if all six > mirrors are > just placed flat on the ceiling, then it would become a wide angle > omni > directional light that would appear brighter since you have the > mirrors > instead of the black ceiling as a reflector. > > OK.. enough of my rambling. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > > Lenny - > > I don't really like the metal halides or halogens - do you know if the > compact fluorescents would work if I cranked up the wattage? Or no > matter > how much wattage it still won't work? > > Thanks so much, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 20, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... like > > halogen, metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef > tanks > > are using for lighting and that's what you might want. > > > > There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper > > penetration from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site sells a > > reflector kit > > http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 from what I recall > > and I've seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or polished > > aluminum sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to make it > > reflect the normal Omni directional lighting of fluorescent into a > > more penetrating light. > > I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like > used in > > the mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like > > fluorescent lighting. > > > > If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, > you'll see > > lots of ideas. > > > > Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells reflectors. > > > > http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/ > > lightingparts.php?c > > ategory_ID=80 > > > > OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv > > > > This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and showed up > > in an image search for a reflector. If you look at the details of > each > > of his tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and pictures of > > exploded view of lighting to show the various reflectors he uses. > > > > http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > > > > I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really like > > the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the plants > > are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is > > disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the lighting > > from CFLs to T5s and have > > 96 watts > > of T5 over the tank right now. > > Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't grow > > much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants turn > > green. > > I do > > everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height > of the > > tank. > > > > So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. > > But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new > > equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. > > > > Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can use > > this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. > > > > I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not sure > > that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for > plants, > > that is really good at penetrating depths? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48125	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: Hi everyone ( new member here)

Hello:    Welcome to the group.  We have a great, lively, and Knowledgeable group here.    Enjoy and...Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, Spawn") ________________________________ From: Jon <jrdeitner@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 2:14:26 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi everyone ( new member here)   Just wanted to say hi, I am new to the group. I have been doing fish for about 6 months, and I have two aquariums. My first one was a 30 gallon FW community, I currently have 2 angelfish, 1 platy, 5 redeye tetras, 1 bloodfin tetra ( I used to have four but they mysteriously died, my remaining one is happy and schooling with the redeyes), 3 cherry barbs and a goldclaw crab. I also have many different types of plants that are growing great. I also have a 75 gallon FOWLR SW aquarium its still pretty new so all I have is 3 chromis. I hope to soon get some black clowns and an angelfish, and eventually some low light or non photosynthetic corals ( I don't have the money for an exspensive light) I have somehow avoided all major diseases and I've had only minor problems, but if course there is always more to learn and hopefully I can share some knowledge also. Thanks for reading all of this ( I know it's too long lol) but im glad I have found this group and I'm looking forward to sharing my knowledge ( and inevitably getting some problems solved when they present themselves) Thanks, jonathan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48126	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

The halides and such require a lot more fan's as well as they run a lot warmer than our CFL or regular fluorescent bulbs do. CFL's are better at penetrating than regular fluorescents so I would go that route if you're going to get a new light. If you're really considering a DIY reflector a lot of people really love the CFL bulbs that are just like regular light bulbs (they look like a spiral tube type bulb), they fit into a regular light socket. You can get the little shop light type metal reflectors to use, or you can string together a bunch of light bulb sockets and build your own metal reflector. Since they fit in a regular light socket you don't need any special ballast and you can put as many as you want together to get the right amount of light for your fish tank. Also you can get these bulbs almost everywhere, just look for the ones that say "daylight" or "full spectrum" I will see if I can find my link later to show you an example of these DIY reflectors. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > OK, I better look into this since I'm not liking the halides and > halos...I think improving the light is going to be easier than > changing the tank! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 21, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > >> I would look at getting the best reflector action going on with your >> existing fluorescent lighting if you're only going to consider >> fluorescent >> lighting. The right reflector can take an omni directional bulb, >> which is >> what all fluorescent lighting is, and aim all that lighting down >> into the >> tank even making it more of a piercing or penetrating light. >> >> See the reflector on this page... >> >> http://www.marinedepot.com/ >> Spiderlight_Reflector_with_Mogul_Socket_and_Brack >> et_Metal_Halide_Reflectors-Captive_Sun-CP5753-FILTACRAMH-vi.html >> >> OR http://tinyurl.com/2gywgbq >> >> I don't see pictures on the AHSupply site any longer but they use >> to show >> their DIY upgrade reflectors that were similarly bent/shaped to the >> above >> reflector so that a LOT more of the light got reflected down into >> the tank >> instead of what is called light re-strike where light gets >> reflected right >> back into the bulb instead of where you want it. So many light >> fixtures >> just have three-sided reflectors with one big flat side above the >> bulb and >> then two slightly angled sides, all of which are often just a plain >> white >> color and while these do a decent job of reflecting the light, they >> aren't >> nearly as good as a mirror type reflector with multiple angles so >> that there >> is little or no light re-strike. A better reflector can make a BIG >> difference in high light planted tanks. >> >> In simple terms, imagine a 60 watt bulb in a room with a black >> ceiling and >> no reflector. Then put a 6" mirror on one side of the bulb on the >> ceiling >> and you now see two 60 watt bulbs when you look at the mirror from >> a certain >> angle. BUT... it doesn't matter how many mirrors but rather the >> angle of >> reflection of the mirrors. Imagine six mirrors but the six mirrors >> form a >> box around the light bulb... so no light is getting out into the >> room but >> instead the light is just constantly reflecting and restriking over >> and over >> inside the box of mirrors. The room would be dark. Now, if you take >> those >> same six mirrors and angle them properly so they form a convex-type >> lens >> around the bulb, that same 60 watt bulb could become a spot light, >> like a >> flashlight aiming down into the middle of the room or if all six >> mirrors are >> just placed flat on the ceiling, then it would become a wide angle >> omni >> directional light that would appear brighter since you have the >> mirrors >> instead of the black ceiling as a reflector. >> >> OK.. enough of my rambling. >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >> right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:46 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g >> >> Lenny - >> >> I don't really like the metal halides or halogens - do you know if the >> compact fluorescents would work if I cranked up the wattage? Or no >> matter >> how much wattage it still won't work? >> >> Thanks so much, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On May 20, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> >>> The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... like >>> halogen, metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef >>> >> tanks >> >>> are using for lighting and that's what you might want. >>> >>> There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper >>> penetration from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site sells a >>> reflector kit >>> http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 from what I recall >>> and I've seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or polished >>> aluminum sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to make it >>> reflect the normal Omni directional lighting of fluorescent into a >>> more penetrating light. >>> I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like >>> >> used in >> >>> the mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like >>> fluorescent lighting. >>> >>> If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, >>> >> you'll see >> >>> lots of ideas. >>> >>> Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells reflectors. >>> >>> http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/ >>> lightingparts.php?c >>> ategory_ID=80 >>> >>> OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv >>> >>> This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and showed up >>> in an image search for a reflector. If you look at the details of >>> >> each >> >>> of his tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and pictures of >>> exploded view of lighting to show the various reflectors he uses. >>> >>> http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm >>> >>> Lenny Vasbinder >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>> >> alphabetically >> >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>> Month) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g >>> >>> I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really like >>> the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the plants >>> are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is >>> disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the lighting >>> from CFLs to T5s and have >>> 96 watts >>> of T5 over the tank right now. >>> Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't grow >>> much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants turn >>> green. >>> I do >>> everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height >>> >> of the >> >>> tank. >>> >>> So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. >>> But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new >>> equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. >>> >>> Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can use >>> this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. >>> >>> I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not sure >>> that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for >>> >> plants, >> >>> that is really good at penetrating depths? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48127	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

Amber - I have these daylight fullspectrum CFL lights clipped onto several of my tanks using chicken coop cone fixtures. I have about thirty of these lights for my birds, so there are always a few lying around. With the metal chicken cone, this serves as a reflector. The plants do love these, but they're ugly! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 21, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > The halides and such require a lot more fan's as well as they run a > lot > warmer than our CFL or regular fluorescent bulbs do. > CFL's are better at penetrating than regular fluorescents so I > would go > that route if you're going to get a new light. > If you're really considering a DIY reflector a lot of people really > love > the CFL bulbs that are just like regular light bulbs (they look like a > spiral tube type bulb), they fit into a regular light socket. You can > get the little shop light type metal reflectors to use, or you can > string together a bunch of light bulb sockets and build your own metal > reflector. Since they fit in a regular light socket you don't need any > special ballast and you can put as many as you want together to get > the > right amount of light for your fish tank. Also you can get these bulbs > almost everywhere, just look for the ones that say "daylight" or "full > spectrum" > I will see if I can find my link later to show you an example of these > DIY reflectors. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > OK, I better look into this since I'm not liking the halides and > > halos...I think improving the light is going to be easier than > > changing the tank! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On May 21, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > >> I would look at getting the best reflector action going on with > your > >> existing fluorescent lighting if you're only going to consider > >> fluorescent > >> lighting. The right reflector can take an omni directional bulb, > >> which is > >> what all fluorescent lighting is, and aim all that lighting down > >> into the > >> tank even making it more of a piercing or penetrating light. > >> > >> See the reflector on this page... > >> > >> http://www.marinedepot.com/ > >> Spiderlight_Reflector_with_Mogul_Socket_and_Brack > >> et_Metal_Halide_Reflectors-Captive_Sun-CP5753-FILTACRAMH-vi.html > >> > >> OR http://tinyurl.com/2gywgbq > >> > >> I don't see pictures on the AHSupply site any longer but they use > >> to show > >> their DIY upgrade reflectors that were similarly bent/shaped to the > >> above > >> reflector so that a LOT more of the light got reflected down into > >> the tank > >> instead of what is called light re-strike where light gets > >> reflected right > >> back into the bulb instead of where you want it. So many light > >> fixtures > >> just have three-sided reflectors with one big flat side above the > >> bulb and > >> then two slightly angled sides, all of which are often just a plain > >> white > >> color and while these do a decent job of reflecting the light, they > >> aren't > >> nearly as good as a mirror type reflector with multiple angles so > >> that there > >> is little or no light re-strike. A better reflector can make a BIG > >> difference in high light planted tanks. > >> > >> In simple terms, imagine a 60 watt bulb in a room with a black > >> ceiling and > >> no reflector. Then put a 6" mirror on one side of the bulb on the > >> ceiling > >> and you now see two 60 watt bulbs when you look at the mirror from > >> a certain > >> angle. BUT... it doesn't matter how many mirrors but rather the > >> angle of > >> reflection of the mirrors. Imagine six mirrors but the six mirrors > >> form a > >> box around the light bulb... so no light is getting out into the > >> room but > >> instead the light is just constantly reflecting and restriking over > >> and over > >> inside the box of mirrors. The room would be dark. Now, if you take > >> those > >> same six mirrors and angle them properly so they form a convex-type > >> lens > >> around the bulb, that same 60 watt bulb could become a spot light, > >> like a > >> flashlight aiming down into the middle of the room or if all six > >> mirrors are > >> just placed flat on the ceiling, then it would become a wide angle > >> omni > >> directional light that would appear brighter since you have the > >> mirrors > >> instead of the black ceiling as a reflector. > >> > >> OK.. enough of my rambling. > >> > >> Lenny Vasbinder > >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > >> right > >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >> Month) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:46 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > >> > >> Lenny - > >> > >> I don't really like the metal halides or halogens - do you know > if the > >> compact fluorescents would work if I cranked up the wattage? Or no > >> matter > >> how much wattage it still won't work? > >> > >> Thanks so much, > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >> > >> On May 20, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >> > >> > >>> The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... like > >>> halogen, metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef > >>> > >> tanks > >> > >>> are using for lighting and that's what you might want. > >>> > >>> There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper > >>> penetration from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site > sells a > >>> reflector kit > >>> http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 from what I > recall > >>> and I've seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or > polished > >>> aluminum sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to make it > >>> reflect the normal Omni directional lighting of fluorescent into a > >>> more penetrating light. > >>> I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like > >>> > >> used in > >> > >>> the mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like > >>> fluorescent lighting. > >>> > >>> If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, > >>> > >> you'll see > >> > >>> lots of ideas. > >>> > >>> Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells > reflectors. > >>> > >>> http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/ > >>> lightingparts.php?c > >>> ategory_ID=80 > >>> > >>> OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv > >>> > >>> This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and > showed up > >>> in an image search for a reflector. If you look at the details of > >>> > >> each > >> > >>> of his tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and pictures of > >>> exploded view of lighting to show the various reflectors he uses. > >>> > >>> http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm > >>> > >>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>> > >> alphabetically > >> > >>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>> Month) > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > >>> > >>> I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really > like > >>> the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the > plants > >>> are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is > >>> disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the > lighting > >>> from CFLs to T5s and have > >>> 96 watts > >>> of T5 over the tank right now. > >>> Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't > grow > >>> much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants > turn > >>> green. > >>> I do > >>> everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height > >>> > >> of the > >> > >>> tank. > >>> > >>> So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. > >>> But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new > >>> equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. > >>> > >>> Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can > use > >>> this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. > >>> > >>> I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not > sure > >>> that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for > >>> > >> plants, > >> > >>> that is really good at penetrating depths? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48128	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

Here's a good example of how to make use of these bulbs and not have it look ugly ;) http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/82396-diy-light-project.html AMber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Amber - > > I have these daylight fullspectrum CFL lights clipped onto several of > my tanks using chicken coop cone fixtures. I have about thirty of > these lights for my birds, so there are always a few lying around. > With the metal chicken cone, this serves as a reflector. The plants > do love these, but they're ugly! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 21, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> The halides and such require a lot more fan's as well as they run a >> lot >> warmer than our CFL or regular fluorescent bulbs do. >> CFL's are better at penetrating than regular fluorescents so I >> would go >> that route if you're going to get a new light. >> If you're really considering a DIY reflector a lot of people really >> love >> the CFL bulbs that are just like regular light bulbs (they look like a >> spiral tube type bulb), they fit into a regular light socket. You can >> get the little shop light type metal reflectors to use, or you can >> string together a bunch of light bulb sockets and build your own metal >> reflector. Since they fit in a regular light socket you don't need any >> special ballast and you can put as many as you want together to get >> the >> right amount of light for your fish tank. Also you can get these bulbs >> almost everywhere, just look for the ones that say "daylight" or "full >> spectrum" >> I will see if I can find my link later to show you an example of these >> DIY reflectors. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> OK, I better look into this since I'm not liking the halides and >>> halos...I think improving the light is going to be easier than >>> changing the tank! >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On May 21, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> I would look at getting the best reflector action going on with >>>> >> your >> >>>> existing fluorescent lighting if you're only going to consider >>>> fluorescent >>>> lighting. The right reflector can take an omni directional bulb, >>>> which is >>>> what all fluorescent lighting is, and aim all that lighting down >>>> into the >>>> tank even making it more of a piercing or penetrating light. >>>> >>>> See the reflector on this page... >>>> >>>> http://www.marinedepot.com/ >>>> Spiderlight_Reflector_with_Mogul_Socket_and_Brack >>>> et_Metal_Halide_Reflectors-Captive_Sun-CP5753-FILTACRAMH-vi.html >>>> >>>> OR http://tinyurl.com/2gywgbq >>>> >>>> I don't see pictures on the AHSupply site any longer but they use >>>> to show >>>> their DIY upgrade reflectors that were similarly bent/shaped to the >>>> above >>>> reflector so that a LOT more of the light got reflected down into >>>> the tank >>>> instead of what is called light re-strike where light gets >>>> reflected right >>>> back into the bulb instead of where you want it. So many light >>>> fixtures >>>> just have three-sided reflectors with one big flat side above the >>>> bulb and >>>> then two slightly angled sides, all of which are often just a plain >>>> white >>>> color and while these do a decent job of reflecting the light, they >>>> aren't >>>> nearly as good as a mirror type reflector with multiple angles so >>>> that there >>>> is little or no light re-strike. A better reflector can make a BIG >>>> difference in high light planted tanks. >>>> >>>> In simple terms, imagine a 60 watt bulb in a room with a black >>>> ceiling and >>>> no reflector. Then put a 6" mirror on one side of the bulb on the >>>> ceiling >>>> and you now see two 60 watt bulbs when you look at the mirror from >>>> a certain >>>> angle. BUT... it doesn't matter how many mirrors but rather the >>>> angle of >>>> reflection of the mirrors. Imagine six mirrors but the six mirrors >>>> form a >>>> box around the light bulb... so no light is getting out into the >>>> room but >>>> instead the light is just constantly reflecting and restriking over >>>> and over >>>> inside the box of mirrors. The room would be dark. Now, if you take >>>> those >>>> same six mirrors and angle them properly so they form a convex-type >>>> lens >>>> around the bulb, that same 60 watt bulb could become a spot light, >>>> like a >>>> flashlight aiming down into the middle of the room or if all six >>>> mirrors are >>>> just placed flat on the ceiling, then it would become a wide angle >>>> omni >>>> directional light that would appear brighter since you have the >>>> mirrors >>>> instead of the black ceiling as a reflector. >>>> >>>> OK.. enough of my rambling. >>>> >>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >>>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the >>>> right >>>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>> Month) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >>>> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:46 PM >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g >>>> >>>> Lenny - >>>> >>>> I don't really like the metal halides or halogens - do you know >>>> >> if the >> >>>> compact fluorescents would work if I cranked up the wattage? Or no >>>> matter >>>> how much wattage it still won't work? >>>> >>>> Thanks so much, >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... like >>>>> halogen, metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef >>>>> >>>>> >>>> tanks >>>> >>>> >>>>> are using for lighting and that's what you might want. >>>>> >>>>> There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper >>>>> penetration from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site >>>>> >> sells a >> >>>>> reflector kit >>>>> http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 from what I >>>>> >> recall >> >>>>> and I've seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or >>>>> >> polished >> >>>>> aluminum sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to make it >>>>> reflect the normal Omni directional lighting of fluorescent into a >>>>> more penetrating light. >>>>> I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like >>>>> >>>>> >>>> used in >>>> >>>> >>>>> the mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like >>>>> fluorescent lighting. >>>>> >>>>> If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> you'll see >>>> >>>> >>>>> lots of ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells >>>>> >> reflectors. >> >>>>> http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/ >>>>> lightingparts.php?c >>>>> ategory_ID=80 >>>>> >>>>> OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv >>>>> >>>>> This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and >>>>> >> showed up >> >>>>> in an image search for a reflector. If you look at the details of >>>>> >>>>> >>>> each >>>> >>>> >>>>> of his tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and pictures of >>>>> exploded view of lighting to show the various reflectors he uses. >>>>> >>>>> http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm >>>>> >>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> alphabetically >>>> >>>> >>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>>> Month) >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g >>>>> >>>>> I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really >>>>> >> like >> >>>>> the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the >>>>> >> plants >> >>>>> are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is >>>>> disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the >>>>> >> lighting >> >>>>> from CFLs to T5s and have >>>>> 96 watts >>>>> of T5 over the tank right now. >>>>> Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't >>>>> >> grow >> >>>>> much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants >>>>> >> turn >> >>>>> green. >>>>> I do >>>>> everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height >>>>> >>>>> >>>> of the >>>> >>>> >>>>> tank. >>>>> >>>>> So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. >>>>> But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new >>>>> equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can >>>>> >> use >> >>>>> this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not >>>>> >> sure >> >>>>> that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for >>>>> >>>>> >>>> plants, >>>> >>>> >>>>> that is really good at penetrating depths? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Lainey >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> >> Thank You. >> >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> >> ((((º> >> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >> subject)" <- >> >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> >> ´¯`·.¸¸. >> >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the >>> >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail >>> >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >> and post replies. >> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >>> >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>> >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48129	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

that's pretty cool... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 21, 2010, at 12:15 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Here's a good example of how to make use of these bulbs and not > have it > look ugly ;) > http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/82396-diy-light-project.html > > AMber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Amber - > > > > I have these daylight fullspectrum CFL lights clipped onto > several of > > my tanks using chicken coop cone fixtures. I have about thirty of > > these lights for my birds, so there are always a few lying around. > > With the metal chicken cone, this serves as a reflector. The plants > > do love these, but they're ugly! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On May 21, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> The halides and such require a lot more fan's as well as they run a > >> lot > >> warmer than our CFL or regular fluorescent bulbs do. > >> CFL's are better at penetrating than regular fluorescents so I > >> would go > >> that route if you're going to get a new light. > >> If you're really considering a DIY reflector a lot of people really > >> love > >> the CFL bulbs that are just like regular light bulbs (they look > like a > >> spiral tube type bulb), they fit into a regular light socket. > You can > >> get the little shop light type metal reflectors to use, or you can > >> string together a bunch of light bulb sockets and build your own > metal > >> reflector. Since they fit in a regular light socket you don't > need any > >> special ballast and you can put as many as you want together to get > >> the > >> right amount of light for your fish tank. Also you can get these > bulbs > >> almost everywhere, just look for the ones that say "daylight" or > "full > >> spectrum" > >> I will see if I can find my link later to show you an example of > these > >> DIY reflectors. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >>> OK, I better look into this since I'm not liking the halides and > >>> halos...I think improving the light is going to be easier than > >>> changing the tank! > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On May 21, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> I would look at getting the best reflector action going on with > >>>> > >> your > >> > >>>> existing fluorescent lighting if you're only going to consider > >>>> fluorescent > >>>> lighting. The right reflector can take an omni directional bulb, > >>>> which is > >>>> what all fluorescent lighting is, and aim all that lighting down > >>>> into the > >>>> tank even making it more of a piercing or penetrating light. > >>>> > >>>> See the reflector on this page... > >>>> > >>>> http://www.marinedepot.com/ > >>>> Spiderlight_Reflector_with_Mogul_Socket_and_Brack > >>>> et_Metal_Halide_Reflectors-Captive_Sun-CP5753-FILTACRAMH-vi.html > >>>> > >>>> OR http://tinyurl.com/2gywgbq > >>>> > >>>> I don't see pictures on the AHSupply site any longer but they use > >>>> to show > >>>> their DIY upgrade reflectors that were similarly bent/shaped > to the > >>>> above > >>>> reflector so that a LOT more of the light got reflected down into > >>>> the tank > >>>> instead of what is called light re-strike where light gets > >>>> reflected right > >>>> back into the bulb instead of where you want it. So many light > >>>> fixtures > >>>> just have three-sided reflectors with one big flat side above the > >>>> bulb and > >>>> then two slightly angled sides, all of which are often just a > plain > >>>> white > >>>> color and while these do a decent job of reflecting the light, > they > >>>> aren't > >>>> nearly as good as a mirror type reflector with multiple angles so > >>>> that there > >>>> is little or no light re-strike. A better reflector can make a > BIG > >>>> difference in high light planted tanks. > >>>> > >>>> In simple terms, imagine a 60 watt bulb in a room with a black > >>>> ceiling and > >>>> no reflector. Then put a 6" mirror on one side of the bulb on the > >>>> ceiling > >>>> and you now see two 60 watt bulbs when you look at the mirror > from > >>>> a certain > >>>> angle. BUT... it doesn't matter how many mirrors but rather the > >>>> angle of > >>>> reflection of the mirrors. Imagine six mirrors but the six > mirrors > >>>> form a > >>>> box around the light bulb... so no light is getting out into the > >>>> room but > >>>> instead the light is just constantly reflecting and restriking > over > >>>> and over > >>>> inside the box of mirrors. The room would be dark. Now, if you > take > >>>> those > >>>> same six mirrors and angle them properly so they form a convex- > type > >>>> lens > >>>> around the bulb, that same 60 watt bulb could become a spot > light, > >>>> like a > >>>> flashlight aiming down into the middle of the room or if all six > >>>> mirrors are > >>>> just placed flat on the ceiling, then it would become a wide > angle > >>>> omni > >>>> directional light that would appear brighter since you have the > >>>> mirrors > >>>> instead of the black ceiling as a reflector. > >>>> > >>>> OK.. enough of my rambling. > >>>> > >>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > >>>> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on > the > >>>> right > >>>> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by > Year, > >>>> Month) > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >>>> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:46 PM > >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > >>>> > >>>> Lenny - > >>>> > >>>> I don't really like the metal halides or halogens - do you know > >>>> > >> if the > >> > >>>> compact fluorescents would work if I cranked up the wattage? > Or no > >>>> matter > >>>> how much wattage it still won't work? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks so much, > >>>> > >>>> Lainey > >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>> > >>>> On May 20, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... > like > >>>>> halogen, metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> tanks > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> are using for lighting and that's what you might want. > >>>>> > >>>>> There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper > >>>>> penetration from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site > >>>>> > >> sells a > >> > >>>>> reflector kit > >>>>> http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 from what I > >>>>> > >> recall > >> > >>>>> and I've seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or > >>>>> > >> polished > >> > >>>>> aluminum sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to > make it > >>>>> reflect the normal Omni directional lighting of fluorescent > into a > >>>>> more penetrating light. > >>>>> I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> used in > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> the mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like > >>>>> fluorescent lighting. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> you'll see > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> lots of ideas. > >>>>> > >>>>> Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells > >>>>> > >> reflectors. > >> > >>>>> http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/ > >>>>> lightingparts.php?c > >>>>> ategory_ID=80 > >>>>> > >>>>> OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv > >>>>> > >>>>> This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and > >>>>> > >> showed up > >> > >>>>> in an image search for a reflector. If you look at the > details of > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> each > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> of his tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and > pictures of > >>>>> exploded view of lighting to show the various reflectors he > uses. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm > >>>>> > >>>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> alphabetically > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>>>> Month) > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM > >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really > >>>>> > >> like > >> > >>>>> the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the > >>>>> > >> plants > >> > >>>>> are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is > >>>>> disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the > >>>>> > >> lighting > >> > >>>>> from CFLs to T5s and have > >>>>> 96 watts > >>>>> of T5 over the tank right now. > >>>>> Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't > >>>>> > >> grow > >> > >>>>> much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants > >>>>> > >> turn > >> > >>>>> green. > >>>>> I do > >>>>> everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> of the > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> tank. > >>>>> > >>>>> So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so > deep. > >>>>> But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new > >>>>> equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. > >>>>> > >>>>> Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can > >>>>> > >> use > >> > >>>>> this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. > >>>>> > >>>>> I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not > >>>>> > >> sure > >> > >>>>> that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> plants, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> that is really good at penetrating depths? > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Lainey > >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > >>> > >> Thank You. > >> > >>> ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > >>> > >> ((((�> > >> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > >>> > >> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > >> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > >> subject)" <- > >> > >>> <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > >>> > >> ��`�.��. > >> > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> > >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > >> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > >>> > >> digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > >>> > >> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > >> and post replies. > >> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > >>> > >> e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48130	From: Noura	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: BLOAT

Hi, My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see normal poop coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. What to do? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48131	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the can, LOL. You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the stove if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so the peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do that. Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of the peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get their interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't have any that are bright green at least, LOL). Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will start to go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you leave them overnight for example). Amber Noura wrote: > > Hi, > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > normal poop > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. What to > do? > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48132	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the time the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the can, LOL. You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the stove if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so the peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do that. Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of the peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get their interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't have any that are bright green at least, LOL). Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will start to go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you leave them overnight for example). Amber Noura wrote: > > Hi, > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > normal poop > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. What to > do? > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48133	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

Hopefully, that DIY'er lowered that light box closer to the tank. You can see how much wasted light there is on all of the walls above and around the tank. You know what I just thought about that would possibly make for some cheap reflectors for that kind of light kit? Polished metal stove top drip pans that go under electric coiled burners and gas burners too, on some older stoves without the flat cook tops like many modern electric cook tops. Like these... http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61V769VWA7L.jpg 4 drip pans are pretty cheap, probably less than $10.00 and the three smaller ones could be used in a DIY light fixture like the one in Amber's link. Polished stainless steel or polished aluminum might cost a more than chrome plated ones. Using those, and instead of having the 90 degree angle box, having 45-60 degree angled sides on the two long sides would make for better reflecting down into the tank, instead of the light re-strike that happens with the 90 degree sides. Then lining the entire inside of the box with mirrored Mylar and using those reflectors would give good overall reflection and directional reflection down into the tank better. I saw that guy used 2700K screw in CFL's, the kind designed to replace incandescent lighting around the home. Do they have higher Kelvin rated screw in CFL's? NM... I found these 5,000K bulbs, 5-pk of 20W spiral CFL's for under $25.00. http://eartheasy.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=1100.053 I might have to make one of these the next time I need a light fixture for one of my tanks. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g Here's a good example of how to make use of these bulbs and not have it look ugly ;) http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/82396-diy-light-project.html AMber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Amber - > > I have these daylight fullspectrum CFL lights clipped onto several of > my tanks using chicken coop cone fixtures. I have about thirty of > these lights for my birds, so there are always a few lying around. > With the metal chicken cone, this serves as a reflector. The plants do > love these, but they're ugly! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 21, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> The halides and such require a lot more fan's as well as they run a >> lot warmer than our CFL or regular fluorescent bulbs do. >> CFL's are better at penetrating than regular fluorescents so I would >> go that route if you're going to get a new light. >> If you're really considering a DIY reflector a lot of people really >> love the CFL bulbs that are just like regular light bulbs (they look >> like a spiral tube type bulb), they fit into a regular light socket. >> You can get the little shop light type metal reflectors to use, or >> you can string together a bunch of light bulb sockets and build your >> own metal reflector. Since they fit in a regular light socket you >> don't need any special ballast and you can put as many as you want >> together to get the right amount of light for your fish tank. Also >> you can get these bulbs almost everywhere, just look for the ones >> that say "daylight" or "full spectrum" >> I will see if I can find my link later to show you an example of >> these DIY reflectors. >> >> Amber >> >> Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >>> OK, I better look into this since I'm not liking the halides and >>> halos...I think improving the light is going to be easier than >>> changing the tank! >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> On May 21, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> I would look at getting the best reflector action going on with >>>> >> your >> >>>> existing fluorescent lighting if you're only going to consider >>>> fluorescent lighting. The right reflector can take an omni >>>> directional bulb, which is what all fluorescent lighting is, and >>>> aim all that lighting down into the tank even making it more of a >>>> piercing or penetrating light. >>>> >>>> See the reflector on this page... >>>> >>>> http://www.marinedepot.com/ >>>> Spiderlight_Reflector_with_Mogul_Socket_and_Brack >>>> et_Metal_Halide_Reflectors-Captive_Sun-CP5753-FILTACRAMH-vi.html >>>> >>>> OR http://tinyurl.com/2gywgbq >>>> >>>> I don't see pictures on the AHSupply site any longer but they use >>>> to show their DIY upgrade reflectors that were similarly >>>> bent/shaped to the above reflector so that a LOT more of the light >>>> got reflected down into the tank instead of what is called light >>>> re-strike where light gets reflected right back into the bulb >>>> instead of where you want it. So many light fixtures just have >>>> three-sided reflectors with one big flat side above the bulb and >>>> then two slightly angled sides, all of which are often just a plain >>>> white color and while these do a decent job of reflecting the >>>> light, they aren't nearly as good as a mirror type reflector with >>>> multiple angles so that there is little or no light re-strike. A >>>> better reflector can make a BIG difference in high light planted >>>> tanks. >>>> >>>> In simple terms, imagine a 60 watt bulb in a room with a black >>>> ceiling and no reflector. Then put a 6" mirror on one side of the >>>> bulb on the ceiling and you now see two 60 watt bulbs when you look >>>> at the mirror from a certain angle. BUT... it doesn't matter how >>>> many mirrors but rather the angle of reflection of the mirrors. >>>> Imagine six mirrors but the six mirrors form a box around the light >>>> bulb... so no light is getting out into the room but instead the >>>> light is just constantly reflecting and restriking over and over >>>> inside the box of mirrors. The room would be dark. Now, if you take >>>> those same six mirrors and angle them properly so they form a >>>> convex-type lens around the bulb, that same 60 watt bulb could >>>> become a spot light, like a flashlight aiming down into the middle >>>> of the room or if all six mirrors are just placed flat on the >>>> ceiling, then it would become a wide angle omni directional light >>>> that would appear brighter since you have the mirrors instead of >>>> the black ceiling as a reflector. >>>> >>>> OK.. enough of my rambling. >>>> >>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>> Month) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:46 PM >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g >>>> >>>> Lenny - >>>> >>>> I don't really like the metal halides or halogens - do you know >>>> >> if the >> >>>> compact fluorescents would work if I cranked up the wattage? Or no >>>> matter how much wattage it still won't work? >>>> >>>> Thanks so much, >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>> >>>> On May 20, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... like >>>>> halogen, metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef >>>>> >>>>> >>>> tanks >>>> >>>> >>>>> are using for lighting and that's what you might want. >>>>> >>>>> There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper >>>>> penetration from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site >>>>> >> sells a >> >>>>> reflector kit >>>>> http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 from what I >>>>> >> recall >> >>>>> and I've seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or >>>>> >> polished >> >>>>> aluminum sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to make it >>>>> reflect the normal Omni directional lighting of fluorescent into a >>>>> more penetrating light. >>>>> I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like >>>>> >>>>> >>>> used in >>>> >>>> >>>>> the mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like >>>>> fluorescent lighting. >>>>> >>>>> If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> you'll see >>>> >>>> >>>>> lots of ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells >>>>> >> reflectors. >> >>>>> http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/ >>>>> lightingparts.php?c >>>>> ategory_ID=80 >>>>> >>>>> OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv >>>>> >>>>> This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and >>>>> >> showed up >> >>>>> in an image search for a reflector. If you look at the details of >>>>> >>>>> >>>> each >>>> >>>> >>>>> of his tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and pictures of >>>>> exploded view of lighting to show the various reflectors he uses. >>>>> >>>>> http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm >>>>> >>>>> Lenny Vasbinder >>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles >>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> alphabetically >>>> >>>> >>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >>>>> Month) >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g >>>>> >>>>> I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really >>>>> >> like >> >>>>> the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the >>>>> >> plants >> >>>>> are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is >>>>> disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the >>>>> >> lighting >> >>>>> from CFLs to T5s and have >>>>> 96 watts >>>>> of T5 over the tank right now. >>>>> Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't >>>>> >> grow >> >>>>> much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants >>>>> >> turn >> >>>>> green. >>>>> I do >>>>> everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height >>>>> >>>>> >>>> of the >>>> >>>> >>>>> tank. >>>>> >>>>> So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. >>>>> But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new >>>>> equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can >>>>> >> use >> >>>>> this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not >>>>> >> sure >> >>>>> that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for >>>>> >>>>> >>>> plants, >>>> >>>> >>>>> that is really good at penetrating depths? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Lainey >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48134	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

Hello Lainey:    I really like 30 gallon tanks for multiple uses.  They are long so they give the impression of being a larger tank than they are.  They are phenomonal plant tanks because their depth is just right to allow standard lighting to be effective even at the bottom, and for fish that like slightly more shallow waters these tanks work great.  I think it would be a nice sized plant tank.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 9:02:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks I haven't decided what new tank size to use yet. I am transferring  many species of plants, maybe thirty. The 37 is well established. I  will monitor the water params for the two weeks following the change,  but I think I can pull this off. I am constantly digging up my plants  and transplanting them into other tanks, so I'm not worried about the  plants, just the fish. This is the tank where I have my blue rams, so  hopefully they won't freak out. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, jaiko wrote: > How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my  > 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems.  > the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how  > long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? > What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and  > fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. > > --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM > > I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing > gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am afraid it > cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well > in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in > another tank. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep  > because > > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer > > all that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the water > > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial  > bacteria, > > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad  > bacteria as > > good. > > > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > > this will stir up a major mess. > > > > Not sure what to do after that. > > > > Thank you for any ideas... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original  > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old  > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on  > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest,  > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail  > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group  > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48135	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

I went to Petco today to look at exactly that, the 29g. I know it would be great for the plants, but where I have the 37g is kind of an entryway showpiece area, and John and I felt that the 29 would look kind of puny and rinkydink in that location. So we decided to upgrade the lighting for the 37 and then if that doesn't work we can add reflectors, and then if that doesn't work, we'll get the 29. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 21, 2010, at 8:33 PM, john Lewis wrote: > Hello Lainey: > I really like 30 gallon tanks for multiple uses. They are long > so they give the impression of being a larger tank than they are. > They are phenomonal plant tanks because their depth is just right > to allow standard lighting to be effective even at the bottom, and > for fish that like slightly more shallow waters these tanks work > great. I think it would be a nice sized plant tank. > Have a Great Day!!! > John (aka, "Spawn") > > ________________________________ > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 9:02:19 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks > > I haven't decided what new tank size to use yet. I am transferring > many species of plants, maybe thirty. The 37 is well established. I > will monitor the water params for the two weeks following the change, > but I think I can pull this off. I am constantly digging up my plants > and transplanting them into other tanks, so I'm not worried about the > plants, just the fish. This is the tank where I have my blue rams, so > hopefully they won't freak out. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, jaiko wrote: > > > How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my > > 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems. > > the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how > > long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? > > What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and > > fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. > > > > --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM > > > > I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing > > gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am > afraid it > > cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well > > in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in > > another tank. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep > > because > > > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > > > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > > > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer > > > all that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the > water > > > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > > > > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial > > bacteria, > > > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad > > bacteria as > > > good. > > > > > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > > > this will stir up a major mess. > > > > > > Not sure what to do after that. > > > > > > Thank you for any ideas... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48136	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

Well, a 29G (18 3/4" high) is just a taller version of a 20G LONG (30" x 12" footprint, 12 3/4" high) and the 37G (22 3/4" high) is an even a taller version, than the 29G, of the 20G LONG tank, which is why you will need more of a penetrating light to get to any plants on the bottom of the 37G. http://alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm I think John was talking about a 30G Breeder tank which has a 36" x 18" footprint and is only 13" high or the standard 30G which has around a 36" x 12" footprint and is 16 3/4" high. If you like the taller tank and you want difficult plants to grow, then you will need to get some more penetrating lighting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks I went to Petco today to look at exactly that, the 29g. I know it would be great for the plants, but where I have the 37g is kind of an entryway showpiece area, and John and I felt that the 29 would look kind of puny and rinkydink in that location. So we decided to upgrade the lighting for the 37 and then if that doesn't work we can add reflectors, and then if that doesn't work, we'll get the 29. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 21, 2010, at 8:33 PM, john Lewis wrote: > Hello Lainey: > I really like 30 gallon tanks for multiple uses. They are long > so they give the impression of being a larger tank than they are. > They are phenomonal plant tanks because their depth is just right to > allow standard lighting to be effective even at the bottom, and for > fish that like slightly more shallow waters these tanks work great. I > think it would be a nice sized plant tank. > Have a Great Day!!! > John (aka, "Spawn") > > ________________________________ > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 9:02:19 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks > > I haven't decided what new tank size to use yet. I am transferring > many species of plants, maybe thirty. The 37 is well established. I > will monitor the water params for the two weeks following the change, > but I think I can pull this off. I am constantly digging up my plants > and transplanting them into other tanks, so I'm not worried about the > plants, just the fish. This is the tank where I have my blue rams, so > hopefully they won't freak out. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, jaiko wrote: > > > How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my > > 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems. > > the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how > > long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? > > What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and > > fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. > > > > --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM > > > > I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing > > gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am > afraid it > > cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well > > in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in > > another tank. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep > > because > > > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > > > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > > > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer > > > all that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the > water > > > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > > > > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial > > bacteria, > > > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad > > bacteria as > > > good. > > > > > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > > > this will stir up a major mess. > > > > > > Not sure what to do after that. > > > > > > Thank you for any ideas... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48137	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Re: New idea for my 37g

Yes they have regular daylight type CFL's (perhaps the DIY'er couldn't find them at walmart or something). They are I think 6700 K, I've seen them at walmart, but they're usually sold out. They even have higher wattage ones than just 20 watts, so if you want more light you can get up to (I think) 105 watt bulbs. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Hopefully, that DIY'er lowered that light box closer to the tank. You can > see how much wasted light there is on all of the walls above and > around the > tank. > > You know what I just thought about that would possibly make for some cheap > reflectors for that kind of light kit? Polished metal stove top drip pans > that go under electric coiled burners and gas burners too, on some older > stoves without the flat cook tops like many modern electric cook tops. > > Like these... http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61V769VWA7L.jpg > > 4 drip pans are pretty cheap, probably less than $10.00 and the three > smaller ones could be used in a DIY light fixture like the one in Amber's > link. Polished stainless steel or polished aluminum might cost a more than > chrome plated ones. > > Using those, and instead of having the 90 degree angle box, having 45-60 > degree angled sides on the two long sides would make for better reflecting > down into the tank, instead of the light re-strike that happens with > the 90 > degree sides. Then lining the entire inside of the box with mirrored Mylar > and using those reflectors would give good overall reflection and > directional reflection down into the tank better. > > I saw that guy used 2700K screw in CFL's, the kind designed to replace > incandescent lighting around the home. Do they have higher Kelvin rated > screw in CFL's? NM... I found these 5,000K bulbs, 5-pk of 20W spiral CFL's > for under $25.00. > http://eartheasy.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=1100.053 > > I might have to make one of these the next time I need a light fixture for > one of my tanks. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > > Here's a good example of how to make use of these bulbs and not have > it look > ugly ;) http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/82396-diy-light-project.html > > AMber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Amber - > > > > I have these daylight fullspectrum CFL lights clipped onto several of > > my tanks using chicken coop cone fixtures. I have about thirty of > > these lights for my birds, so there are always a few lying around. > > With the metal chicken cone, this serves as a reflector. The plants do > > love these, but they're ugly! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On May 21, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> The halides and such require a lot more fan's as well as they run a > >> lot warmer than our CFL or regular fluorescent bulbs do. > >> CFL's are better at penetrating than regular fluorescents so I would > >> go that route if you're going to get a new light. > >> If you're really considering a DIY reflector a lot of people really > >> love the CFL bulbs that are just like regular light bulbs (they look > >> like a spiral tube type bulb), they fit into a regular light socket. > >> You can get the little shop light type metal reflectors to use, or > >> you can string together a bunch of light bulb sockets and build your > >> own metal reflector. Since they fit in a regular light socket you > >> don't need any special ballast and you can put as many as you want > >> together to get the right amount of light for your fish tank. Also > >> you can get these bulbs almost everywhere, just look for the ones > >> that say "daylight" or "full spectrum" > >> I will see if I can find my link later to show you an example of > >> these DIY reflectors. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >>> OK, I better look into this since I'm not liking the halides and > >>> halos...I think improving the light is going to be easier than > >>> changing the tank! > >>> > >>> Lainey > >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>> > >>> On May 21, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> I would look at getting the best reflector action going on with > >>>> > >> your > >> > >>>> existing fluorescent lighting if you're only going to consider > >>>> fluorescent lighting. The right reflector can take an omni > >>>> directional bulb, which is what all fluorescent lighting is, and > >>>> aim all that lighting down into the tank even making it more of a > >>>> piercing or penetrating light. > >>>> > >>>> See the reflector on this page... > >>>> > >>>> http://www.marinedepot.com/ > >>>> Spiderlight_Reflector_with_Mogul_Socket_and_Brack > >>>> et_Metal_Halide_Reflectors-Captive_Sun-CP5753-FILTACRAMH-vi.html > >>>> > >>>> OR http://tinyurl.com/2gywgbq > >>>> > >>>> I don't see pictures on the AHSupply site any longer but they use > >>>> to show their DIY upgrade reflectors that were similarly > >>>> bent/shaped to the above reflector so that a LOT more of the light > >>>> got reflected down into the tank instead of what is called light > >>>> re-strike where light gets reflected right back into the bulb > >>>> instead of where you want it. So many light fixtures just have > >>>> three-sided reflectors with one big flat side above the bulb and > >>>> then two slightly angled sides, all of which are often just a plain > >>>> white color and while these do a decent job of reflecting the > >>>> light, they aren't nearly as good as a mirror type reflector with > >>>> multiple angles so that there is little or no light re-strike. A > >>>> better reflector can make a BIG difference in high light planted > >>>> tanks. > >>>> > >>>> In simple terms, imagine a 60 watt bulb in a room with a black > >>>> ceiling and no reflector. Then put a 6" mirror on one side of the > >>>> bulb on the ceiling and you now see two 60 watt bulbs when you look > >>>> at the mirror from a certain angle. BUT... it doesn't matter how > >>>> many mirrors but rather the angle of reflection of the mirrors. > >>>> Imagine six mirrors but the six mirrors form a box around the light > >>>> bulb... so no light is getting out into the room but instead the > >>>> light is just constantly reflecting and restriking over and over > >>>> inside the box of mirrors. The room would be dark. Now, if you take > >>>> those same six mirrors and angle them properly so they form a > >>>> convex-type lens around the bulb, that same 60 watt bulb could > >>>> become a spot light, like a flashlight aiming down into the middle > >>>> of the room or if all six mirrors are just placed flat on the > >>>> ceiling, then it would become a wide angle omni directional light > >>>> that would appear brighter since you have the mirrors instead of > >>>> the black ceiling as a reflector. > >>>> > >>>> OK.. enough of my rambling. > >>>> > >>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>>> alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>>> Month) > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:46 PM > >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > >>>> > >>>> Lenny - > >>>> > >>>> I don't really like the metal halides or halogens - do you know > >>>> > >> if the > >> > >>>> compact fluorescents would work if I cranked up the wattage? Or no > >>>> matter how much wattage it still won't work? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks so much, > >>>> > >>>> Lainey > >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >>>> > >>>> On May 20, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> The best at penetrating depth are spot light type lighting... like > >>>>> halogen, metal-halide and now LED lighting. Look at what SW Reef > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> tanks > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> are using for lighting and that's what you might want. > >>>>> > >>>>> There are DIY or buyable reflectors that will give you deeper > >>>>> penetration from fluorescent lighting. The A&H Lighting site > >>>>> > >> sells a > >> > >>>>> reflector kit > >>>>> http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9 > <http://ahsupply.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&cat=9> from what I > >>>>> > >> recall > >> > >>>>> and I've seen DIY sites where folks take stainless steel or > >>>>> > >> polished > >> > >>>>> aluminum sheeting and cut and bend it to certain angles to make it > >>>>> reflect the normal Omni directional lighting of fluorescent into a > >>>>> more penetrating light. > >>>>> I've even seen folks glue on the mirror type Mylar film (like > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> used in > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> the mirror looking balloons) for cooler lighting situations like > >>>>> fluorescent lighting. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you do a Google search of DIY aquarium light reflectors, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> you'll see > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> lots of ideas. > >>>>> > >>>>> Here is one image I saw that led to this page that sells > >>>>> > >> reflectors. > >> > >>>>> http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tcategory/ > >>>>> lightingparts.php?c > >>>>> ategory_ID=80 > >>>>> > >>>>> OR http://tinyurl.com/26p2hlv > >>>>> > >>>>> This personal site shows lots of images of their tanks and > >>>>> > >> showed up > >> > >>>>> in an image search for a reflector. If you look at the details of > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> each > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> of his tanks, they have links to his DIY lighting and pictures of > >>>>> exploded view of lighting to show the various reflectors he uses. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/mytank.htm > >>>>> > >>>>> Lenny Vasbinder > >>>>> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > >>>>> referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> alphabetically > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > >>>>> Month) > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:39 PM > >>>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] New idea for my 37g > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm looking at this tank, which is 22 inches tall, and I really > >>>>> > >> like > >> > >>>>> the tank, and the fish like it, the only problem is that the > >>>>> > >> plants > >> > >>>>> are too far from the light so the lower level of the tank is > >>>>> disfunctional and the plant bases die back. I upgraded the > >>>>> > >> lighting > >> > >>>>> from CFLs to T5s and have > >>>>> 96 watts > >>>>> of T5 over the tank right now. > >>>>> Still it's the only one of my tanks that gets algae and I can't > >>>>> > >> grow > >> > >>>>> much on the floor. Plus it's the only tank where my red plants > >>>>> > >> turn > >> > >>>>> green. > >>>>> I do > >>>>> everything else the same so I know it's the lighting and height > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> of the > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> tank. > >>>>> > >>>>> So I was going to switch the tank out for another one not so deep. > >>>>> But that is creating a world of new problems and may require new > >>>>> equipment when I already have perfectly good equipment. > >>>>> > >>>>> Does anyone think upgrading the light further might help? I can > >>>>> > >> use > >> > >>>>> this T5 on another tank that would appreciate it. > >>>>> > >>>>> I thought T5s were the best at penetrating depths, but I'm not > >>>>> > >> sure > >> > >>>>> that's true. Is there a light that would work specifically for > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> plants, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> that is really good at penetrating depths? > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Lainey > >>>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48138	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/21/2010
Subject: Breeding scarlet badis

My scarlet badis pair are acting like they might be spawning. They are twirling around each other and buzzing their tails at each other, then chasing each other around and twirling again. Has anyone bred these fish and could you explain what the process should be? Right now they are in a 20g high planted community tank with sparkling gouramis, endlers and a dwarf puffer. Probably not going to be a good place to breed. I have a 5g I can give them with plants - would this work? If so, do I have to drain half the water down as I have read about? Do they need live foods other than microworms? Thank you for feedback, as always. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48139	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding scarlet badis

Lainey, Lucky! Sorry, can't give you any advice, as I don't even know if I have a female or not! I'm looking for more females if anyone out there has any;) Please keep us posted, there are a few of us out here trying to breed this fish. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, May 21, 2010 10:34:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding scarlet badis My scarlet badis pair are acting like they might be spawning. They are twirling around each other and buzzing their tails at each other, then chasing each other around and twirling again. Has anyone bred these fish and could you explain what the process should be? Right now they are in a 20g high planted community tank with sparkling gouramis, endlers and a dwarf puffer. Probably not going to be a good place to breed. I have a 5g I can give them with plants - would this work? If so, do I have to drain half the water down as I have read about? Do they need live foods other than microworms? Thank you for feedback, as always. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48140	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding scarlet badis

approve</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48141	From: Ray	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding scarlet badis

You're right, the 20g community tank is not going to be a good place for the Scarlet Badis (Dario dario) to breed. Yes, the 5 gallon tank would be fine for them. Many Dario breeders use just this exact same size tank to breed them. I don't know what you have in mind as plants, but as Scarlet Badis are egg scatterers in fine-leaved plants, they should ideally have most of their tank loaded with Java Moss. Najas would also work, as would Nitella -- although Nitella needs a bit more light. I don't know where you read that fallacy about these fish needing their tank drained down half way, unless these people are breeding their Dario's in 55 gallon tanks. The 5 gallon tank can be filled to it's normal capacity (within an inch of the top), but as with all fish, a top should always be used to prevent jumping. Yes, the fry need live food (infusoria) -- for the first month or more -- and they're slow growers. For this reason alone, an established tank should be used, rather than a freshly set up one, to ensure a population of these animaculae as their first food. They may not be able to handle microworm until after they reach that stage. This is yet another reason why Java Moss needs to be used -- not only as a spawning medium, but it will supply infusoria that the fry can pick on. You can add a bit of LiquiFry to help promote additional infusoria. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > My scarlet badis pair are acting like they might be spawning. They > are twirling around each other and buzzing their tails at each other, > then chasing each other around and twirling again. > > Has anyone bred these fish and could you explain what the process > should be? > > Right now they are in a 20g high planted community tank with > sparkling gouramis, endlers and a dwarf puffer. Probably not going to > be a good place to breed. > > I have a 5g I can give them with plants - would this work? If so, do > I have to drain half the water down as I have read about? Do they > need live foods other than microworms? > > Thank you for feedback, as always. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48142	From: greychildren	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: New Pictures added

Please guys take a look at my two tanks pictures and let me know what u think?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48143	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Pictures added

Ok, greychildren, I looked at the tanks.   What am I suppose to see?  Is there something wrong? Sorry, I looked and looked and I think their great!  Fact is, I would not mind owning any part of them.  Great tanks and a great job of planting them.   Anything wrong?  Not to me!  <g>   Bill --- On Sat, 5/22/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> wrote: From: greychildren <greychildren@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] New Pictures added To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 22, 2010, 1:01 PM Please guys take a look at my two tanks pictures and let me know what u think? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48144	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Labyrinth Aquarium

http://www.opulentitems.com/Labyrinth-Aquarium_p_731.html http://tinyurl.com/yhchjv3 Unusual aquarium--free shipping offered. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48145	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Pictures added

They look good but why is the water level so low... more so in one tank than the other but still low. I keep my water line above the top frame so you can't see the water line or it will leave buildup, especially if one has hard water? One of the tanks has a thick layer of floating plants. Is that just in the front or across the top? Seems that thick layer would be blocking a lot of the light from the lower plants. Here's the link to your photos in case others do not want to go through the long route. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1342895254/pic/list?m ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc OR http://tinyurl.com/3a7zjql Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Pictures added Please guys take a look at my two tanks pictures and let me know what u think?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48146	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Labyrinth Aquarium

They don't mention how to vacuum the gravel... do they? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Labyrinth Aquarium http://www.opulentitems.com/Labyrinth-Aquarium_p_731.html http://tinyurl.com/yhchjv3 Unusual aquarium--free shipping offered. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48147	From: jaiko	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Pictures added

They have been topped since the picture was taken Lenny also that's wisteria that grows like wild weed in my tank.i cut them ones a month. --- On Sat, 5/22/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New Pictures added To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 22, 2010, 5:29 PM   They look good but why is the water level so low... more so in one tank than the other but still low. I keep my water line above the top frame so you can't see the water line or it will leave buildup, especially if one has hard water? One of the tanks has a thick layer of floating plants. Is that just in the front or across the top? Seems that thick layer would be blocking a lot of the light from the lower plants. Here's the link to your photos in case others do not want to go through the long route. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1342895254/pic/list?m ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc OR http://tinyurl.com/3a7zjql Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Pictures added Please guys take a look at my two tanks pictures and let me know what u think? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48148	From: jaiko	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Pictures added

There is nothing wrong with the i just wanted an experts opinion on them thank you much Bill --- On Sat, 5/22/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Pictures added To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 22, 2010, 4:18 PM   Ok, greychildren, I looked at the tanks.   What am I suppose to see?  Is there something wrong? Sorry, I looked and looked and I think their great!  Fact is, I would not mind owning any part of them.  Great tanks and a great job of planting them.   Anything wrong?  Not to me!  <g>   Bill --- On Sat, 5/22/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> wrote: From: greychildren <greychildren@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] New Pictures added To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 22, 2010, 1:01 PM Please guys take a look at my two tanks pictures and let me know what u think? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48149	From: Noura	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're used to it and like it. I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is dropsy. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the time > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If > not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the > can, LOL. > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the stove > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so the > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do that. > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of the > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get their > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will > help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas > too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will start to > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you > leave them overnight for example). > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > normal poop > > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. What to > > do? > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48150	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

I’ve treated bloat successfully several times. I think foods like peas and even Epsom salts (also a good thing to treat with, it’s a mild laxative) work better as a preventative or if you catch it early. Once the fish is bloated and there is no stool you need the anti parasite med like metronidazole or clout. I know you can’t obtain the same things we have here, but what can you treat internal parasites with? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 6:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're used to it and like it. I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is dropsy. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the time > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If > not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the > can, LOL. > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the stove > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so the > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do that. > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of the > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get their > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will > help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas > too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will start to > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you > leave them overnight for example). > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > normal poop > > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. What to > > do? > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48151	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

If you can't get the meds Donna has suggested are you able to get epsom salts? It may be too late to use epsom salts though. Does the fish still swim normally or is it tipping upside down? I would definitely take the angelfish out and put it into it's own Q tank while you try to treat it. When I had a bloated gourami I was not able to bring him back to regular size in time before he died. I used meds and green peas and a Q tank and everything, the poor little guy just didn't recover fast enough. I hope you caught this in time for your angel fish :( Amber Noura wrote: > > Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're > used to it and like it. > I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" > yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool > coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is > dropsy. > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > wrote: > > > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the > time > > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If > > not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the > > can, LOL. > > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the > stove > > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so > the > > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do > that. > > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of > the > > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get > their > > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will > > help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas > > too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will > start to > > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you > > leave them overnight for example). > > > > Amber > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > > normal poop > > > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > > > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > > > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. > What to > > > do? > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48152	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Labyrinth Aquarium

Very good concern Lenny ;) I liked the hanging aquarium on that site better myself... but I worried what would happen if you bump it, LOL. http://www.opulentitems.com/Hanging-Fish-Tank_p_939.html Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > They don't mention how to vacuum the gravel... do they? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Labyrinth Aquarium > > http://www.opulentitems.com/Labyrinth-Aquarium_p_731.html > http://tinyurl.com/yhchjv3 > > Unusual aquarium--free shipping offered. > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48153	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Labyrinth Aquarium

Lenny, It is very simple, you call the aquarium maintenance company to come and clean the tank. Jeez, some people just need everything explained to them. <g> \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 5:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Labyrinth Aquarium They don't mention how to vacuum the gravel... do they? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Labyrinth Aquarium http://www.opulentitems.com/Labyrinth-Aquarium_p_731.html http://tinyurl.com/yhchjv3 Unusual aquarium--free shipping offered. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48154	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/22/2010
Subject: Re: Labyrinth Aquarium

I wonder if they reinforce the framing in your home before hanging one of those tanks? The smallest tank is a 100G tank, so around 800 to 1,000 pounds hanging in the middle of the room... means a sagging ceiling after a short while... with normal construction. If it was hanging next to a load bearing wall, that would be OK but then you wouldn't need it hanging if it's next to a wall. I guess they do have to install new beams in the ceiling and while it's opened up, they can run the wiring and plumbing for the filter system. As usual with novelty tanks, there's a lot more novelty to them, than tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 8:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Labyrinth Aquarium Very good concern Lenny ;) I liked the hanging aquarium on that site better myself... but I worried what would happen if you bump it, LOL. http://www.opulentitems.com/Hanging-Fish-Tank_p_939.html Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > They don't mention how to vacuum the gravel... do they? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Labyrinth Aquarium > > http://www.opulentitems.com/Labyrinth-Aquarium_p_731.html > http://tinyurl.com/yhchjv3 > > Unusual aquarium--free shipping offered. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48155	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Transfering tanks

Hello Lainey:    Though the 29 and 30 gallon seem like they would be similar they are very different aquaria.  the thirty gallon is 3 feet long and shallower than the 29 gallon which is 5" shorter and much taller (abain, a problem with light penetrating the depth.  That is why I suggested the 30 gallon.  Check one out at the LFS and you may find it to be the perfect plant tank.  I think 37 gallon tanks are also 3 feet long but much deeper than the thirty.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, May 21, 2010 9:20:51 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks I went to Petco today to look at exactly that, the 29g. I know it  would be great for the plants, but where I have the 37g is kind of an  entryway showpiece area, and John and I felt that the 29 would look  kind of puny and rinkydink in that location. So we decided to upgrade  the lighting for the 37 and then if that doesn't work we can add  reflectors, and then if that doesn't work, we'll get the 29. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 21, 2010, at 8:33 PM, john Lewis wrote: >      Hello Lainey: >    I really like 30 gallon tanks for multiple uses.  They are long  > so they give the impression of being a larger tank than they are.  > They are phenomonal plant tanks because their depth is just right  > to allow standard lighting to be effective even at the bottom, and  > for fish that like slightly more shallow waters these tanks work  > great.  I think it would be a nice sized plant tank. >    Have a Great Day!!! >    John (aka, "Spawn") > > ________________________________ > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 9:02:19 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks > > I haven't decided what new tank size to use yet. I am transferring > many species of plants, maybe thirty. The 37 is well established. I > will monitor the water params for the two weeks following the change, > but I think I can pull this off. I am constantly digging up my plants > and transplanting them into other tanks, so I'm not worried about the > plants, just the fish. This is the tank where I have my blue rams, so > hopefully they won't freak out. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On May 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, jaiko wrote: > > > How big is the tank your transferring your 37g two? I transfer my > > 40g planted into my 55g and my 20g into my 40g with no problems. > > the only thing you have to watch is your water parameters. Also how > > long have you had this 37g running? what type of gravel?clay,peat? > > What species of plants are u transferring and fish? Some plants and > > fish don't do well with rapid water parameters changes.. > > > > --- On Thu, 5/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...>  > wrote: > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Transfering tanks > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 8:13 PM > > > > I forgot to mention that the gravel was expensive plant-growing > > gravel which is why I'd rather not have to replace it. I am  > afraid it > > cost something like $55 per bag shipped. But the plants do very well > > in it, and they don't do as well in the cheap Petco gravel I have in > > another tank. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On May 20, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > I have to transfer my 37 g high tank to one that is less deep > > because > > > my plants don't like the depth and I feel that I have tried every > > > thing there is to try. My concern with this is - since this 37 is > > > heavily planted, I can't vacuum too much and when I go to transfer > > > all that filthy gravel to the new tank, I am worried about the  > water > > > quality and that the fish will be harmed by it. > > > > > > Should I rinse it? I realize that would harm any beneficial > > bacteria, > > > but I think this gravel is going to have just as much bad > > bacteria as > > > good. > > > > > > I want to get the fish out of the tank, then remove the plants and > > > this will stir up a major mess. > > > > > > Not sure what to do after that. > > > > > > Thank you for any ideas... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original  > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old  > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on  > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest,  > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail  > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group  > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48156	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Question:

What is a nitrate? Answer: Cheaper than a day rate. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48157	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Question:

\\Steve//!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're working WAY to hard again!!! R-E-S-T, and in case you were absent from school that day: 1 repose, sleep; specifically : a bodily state characterized by minimal functional and metabolic activities 2 freedom from activity or labor b : a state of motionlessness or inactivity 3 a place for resting or lodging 4 peace of mind or spirit <G> or as the ladies on TV say: "Take some time to enjoy the View"! Bill --- On Sun, 5/23/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Question: > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, May 23, 2010, 8:53 AM > What is a nitrate? > > Answer: > Cheaper than a day rate. > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48158	From: jaiko	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Question:

lol...stev-o check my tank pictures...give me your expert adviced..Lenny said i have too much tank plant cover...I have to lift the light do to green algae spawned. --- On Sun, 5/23/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Question: To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 23, 2010, 8:53 AM   What is a nitrate? Answer: Cheaper than a day rate. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48159	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Question:

Be-de-bing! Not quite worthy of a BA-DA-BUMP! But it is worthy of being added to the Fish Jokes page on my blog. ;-) http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/02/fish-jokes-some-may-be-pg-or-r-rated.h tml OR http://tinyurl.com/Fish-Jokes Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 7:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Question: What is a nitrate? Answer: Cheaper than a day rate. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48160	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: New Plant

I am wondering what people out there do when they purchase or are given new plants for their tanks. Do you just plunk them into your tank? Do you quarantine them? Do you give them a bath in alum, potassium permanganate, or another chemical? What? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48161	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: New Plant

Steve - I like snails, but people who don't use p. permanganate before placing them into their tanks. If I can see algae, I soak the plants in 4ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per gallon water for a few hours, then place in my tanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 23, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > I am wondering what people out there do when they purchase or are > given new > plants for their tanks. Do you just plunk them into your tank? Do you > quarantine them? Do you give them a bath in alum, potassium > permanganate, or > another chemical? What? > > \\Steve// > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48162	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: (no subject)

Thanks. Cause i hadn't treated it yet. So now i'll wait   Lisa    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48163	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: Question:

HA! HA! HA!     Good one Steve!!!    have a Great Week!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 8:53:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Question:   What is a nitrate? Answer: Cheaper than a day rate. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48164	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/23/2010
Subject: Re: New Plant

Hello:    I don't bathe them in anything but I do quarantine them for two weeks and then wash them off before placing them in the tanks.  Where I'm at you can collect some of the plants used in aquaria.  I have foxwort that has been producing new plants and "streamers" for almost fifteen years.  I also have a group of Duckweed that keep producing and have been for over ten years.    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 2:25:01 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New Plant   I am wondering what people out there do when they purchase or are given new plants for their tanks. Do you just plunk them into your tank? Do you quarantine them? Do you give them a bath in alum, potassium permanganate, or another chemical? What? \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48166	From: AquaticLife	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Off Topic ~ 20% Off Entire Store - Ends Today

Great Sale! @ https://www.customaquatic.com/ 20% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Supplies ~ Hurry - Sale ends Today - Monday, May 24th I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to know of a great website with the lowest prices available and awesome sales, I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and the other members in the group that might be interested in saving some money. Thanks for reading, Aaron p.s. sorry about the double post - I deleted the original since the links and html did not work

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48167	From: Thomas Silva	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Off Topic ~ 20% Off Entire Store - Ends Today

at least it is on target with the the group subject --- Great Sale! @ https://www.customaquatic.com/ 20% off all Saltwater & Freshwater Supplies ~ Hurry - Sale ends Today - Monday, May 24th I apologize if you think this is spam, however if you happen to know of a great website with the lowest prices available and awesome sales, I hope you too would be willing to share that info with me and the other members in the group that might be interested in saving some money. Thanks for reading, Aaron [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48168	From: Noura	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

It's still swimming in the normal position, but very slowly. It's breathing oddly, opening its mouth too much with each "breath" Its eyes are popping out a little bit. There are no parasite medications for fish in my town. Only for internal and external bacterial disease. I can buy Epsom salt. Should I put it in baths or should I add the salt to the hospital tank? Noura -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT If you can't get the meds Donna has suggested are you able to get epsom salts? It may be too late to use epsom salts though. Does the fish still swim normally or is it tipping upside down? I would definitely take the angelfish out and put it into it's own Q tank while you try to treat it. When I had a bloated gourami I was not able to bring him back to regular size in time before he died. I used meds and green peas and a Q tank and everything, the poor little guy just didn't recover fast enough. I hope you caught this in time for your angel fish :( Amber Noura wrote: > > Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're > used to it and like it. > I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" > yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool > coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is > dropsy. > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > wrote: > > > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the > time > > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If > > not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the > > can, LOL. > > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the > stove > > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so > the > > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do > that. > > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of > the > > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get > their > > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will > > help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas > > too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will > start to > > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you > > leave them overnight for example). > > > > Amber > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > > normal poop > > > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > > > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > > > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. > What to > > > do? > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48169	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Add it to the hospital tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT It's still swimming in the normal position, but very slowly. It's breathing oddly, opening its mouth too much with each "breath" Its eyes are popping out a little bit. There are no parasite medications for fish in my town. Only for internal and external bacterial disease. I can buy Epsom salt. Should I put it in baths or should I add the salt to the hospital tank? Noura -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT If you can't get the meds Donna has suggested are you able to get epsom salts? It may be too late to use epsom salts though. Does the fish still swim normally or is it tipping upside down? I would definitely take the angelfish out and put it into it's own Q tank while you try to treat it. When I had a bloated gourami I was not able to bring him back to regular size in time before he died. I used meds and green peas and a Q tank and everything, the poor little guy just didn't recover fast enough. I hope you caught this in time for your angel fish :( Amber Noura wrote: > > Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're > used to it and like it. > I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" > yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool > coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is > dropsy. > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > wrote: > > > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the > time > > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If > > not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the > > can, LOL. > > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the > stove > > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so > the > > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do > that. > > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of > the > > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get > their > > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will > > help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas > > too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will > start to > > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you > > leave them overnight for example). > > > > Amber > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > > normal poop > > > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > > > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > > > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. > What to > > > do? > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48170	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

This is what it says in Cichlid-forum: In addition to treating your tank with either one of these drugs, it is also recommended adding an Epsom salt/Table salt mixture to your tank. Mix the two half-and-half, and add a handful of this mixture for every ten gallons of water. Epsom salt is a natural laxative and will help your bloated fish lose some of the water it has been taking on. Epsom salt is very cheap, costing something like $2 for 3 lbs. It can be obtained from any grocery store or pharmacy. Add it gradually, I added it all at once at one time and the fish did react noticeably, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT It's still swimming in the normal position, but very slowly. It's breathing oddly, opening its mouth too much with each "breath" Its eyes are popping out a little bit. There are no parasite medications for fish in my town. Only for internal and external bacterial disease. I can buy Epsom salt. Should I put it in baths or should I add the salt to the hospital tank? Noura -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT If you can't get the meds Donna has suggested are you able to get epsom salts? It may be too late to use epsom salts though. Does the fish still swim normally or is it tipping upside down? I would definitely take the angelfish out and put it into it's own Q tank while you try to treat it. When I had a bloated gourami I was not able to bring him back to regular size in time before he died. I used meds and green peas and a Q tank and everything, the poor little guy just didn't recover fast enough. I hope you caught this in time for your angel fish :( Amber Noura wrote: > > Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're > used to it and like it. > I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" > yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool > coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is > dropsy. > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > wrote: > > > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the > time > > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If > > not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the > > can, LOL. > > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the > stove > > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so > the > > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do > that. > > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of > the > > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get > their > > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will > > help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas > > too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will > start to > > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you > > leave them overnight for example). > > > > Amber > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > > normal poop > > > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > > > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > > > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. > What to > > > do? > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48171	From: Ray	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Noura, As you're finding out, "Bloat" can have several causes, some of which have already been suggested as treatments for. In following this thread, your latest description indicates that this condition is fully attributed to an internal anaerobic bacterial infection -- most often an Aeromonas or Pseudomonas bacterium (not constipation or internal parasites). Hoping we caught this early enough, this may at least be better news since you should probably be able to obtain the needed medication. In conjuction with the Epsom salt (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons, increased by half this amount on the third day), raise the temperature gradually to 90 o and use a medication containing Kanamycin Sulfate (Kanacyn) with the first dose being double. In the States, we have a medication produced by SeaChem, called "KanaPlex" but I don't know what brands are available by you. If you can't find that medication, try looking for anything containing Naladixic Acid. Again, here in the States we have a medication produced by A.P.I. (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals) called "Nalagram." Look for something similar. These two meds are the most effective against this disease, but if you can't find either, try to get Maracyn II (Maracyn 2 -- TWO) -- not plain Maracyn. It contains Minocycline which is also readily absorbable internally, as are the first two. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > It's still swimming in the normal position, but very slowly. It's breathing > oddly, opening its mouth too much with each "breath" > Its eyes are popping out a little bit. > There are no parasite medications for fish in my town. Only for internal > and external bacterial disease. > I can buy Epsom salt. Should I put it in baths or should I add the salt to > the hospital tank? > > Noura > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT > > If you can't get the meds Donna has suggested are you able to get epsom > salts? It may be too late to use epsom salts though. Does the fish still > swim normally or is it tipping upside down? > I would definitely take the angelfish out and put it into it's own Q > tank while you try to treat it. > When I had a bloated gourami I was not able to bring him back to regular > size in time before he died. I used meds and green peas and a Q tank and > everything, the poor little guy just didn't recover fast enough. > I hope you caught this in time for your angel fish :( > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're > > used to it and like it. > > I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" > > yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool > > coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is > > dropsy. > > > > Noura > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > > > > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the > > time > > > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > > > > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If > > > not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the > > > can, LOL. > > > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the > > stove > > > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so > > the > > > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do > > that. > > > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of > > the > > > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get > > their > > > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > > > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > > > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will > > > help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas > > > too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will > > start to > > > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you > > > leave them overnight for example). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > > > normal poop > > > > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > > > > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > > > > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. > > What to > > > > do? > > > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48172	From: Ray	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Do not increase the temperature until you're ready to add the medication, and then, only do so with increased aeration -- keeping an eye on the fish's breathing. Depending on how the fish is taking the heat, you may only be able to raise it to 88 o or 86 o, but at least that will be a help. Add the Epsom salt to the hospital tank (not as a bath). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > It's still swimming in the normal position, but very slowly. It's breathing > oddly, opening its mouth too much with each "breath" > Its eyes are popping out a little bit. > There are no parasite medications for fish in my town. Only for internal > and external bacterial disease. > I can buy Epsom salt. Should I put it in baths or should I add the salt to > the hospital tank? > > Noura > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT > > If you can't get the meds Donna has suggested are you able to get epsom > salts? It may be too late to use epsom salts though. Does the fish still > swim normally or is it tipping upside down? > I would definitely take the angelfish out and put it into it's own Q > tank while you try to treat it. > When I had a bloated gourami I was not able to bring him back to regular > size in time before he died. I used meds and green peas and a Q tank and > everything, the poor little guy just didn't recover fast enough. > I hope you caught this in time for your angel fish :( > > Amber > > Noura wrote: > > > > Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're > > used to it and like it. > > I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" > > yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool > > coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is > > dropsy. > > > > Noura > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > > > > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the > > time > > > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > > > > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If > > > not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the > > > can, LOL. > > > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the > > stove > > > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so > > the > > > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do > > that. > > > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of > > the > > > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get > > their > > > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > > > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > > > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will > > > help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas > > > too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will > > start to > > > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you > > > leave them overnight for example). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > > > normal poop > > > > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > > > > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > > > > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. > > What to > > > > do? > > > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where > > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48173	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

I don't think this is parasitic. Sounds bacterial to me... or at least it does now. The start of potential pop-eye is a symptom of an internal bacterial infection. Do you have any antibiotic medication for use on gram-negative bacteria? Read this page. It mentions the gastroenteritis (bloating) and pop-eye and has several potential treatment suggestions and the website is known for reliable information. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Vibrio_Aeromonas.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT It's still swimming in the normal position, but very slowly. It's breathing oddly, opening its mouth too much with each "breath" Its eyes are popping out a little bit. There are no parasite medications for fish in my town. Only for internal and external bacterial disease. I can buy Epsom salt. Should I put it in baths or should I add the salt to the hospital tank? Noura -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT If you can't get the meds Donna has suggested are you able to get epsom salts? It may be too late to use epsom salts though. Does the fish still swim normally or is it tipping upside down? I would definitely take the angelfish out and put it into it's own Q tank while you try to treat it. When I had a bloated gourami I was not able to bring him back to regular size in time before he died. I used meds and green peas and a Q tank and everything, the poor little guy just didn't recover fast enough. I hope you caught this in time for your angel fish :( Amber Noura wrote: > > Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're > used to it and like it. > I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" > yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool > coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is > dropsy. > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > wrote: > > > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the > time > > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? > > If not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of > > the can, LOL. > > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the > stove > > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so > the > > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do > that. > > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of > the > > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get > their > > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that > > will help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat > > the peas too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they > > will > start to > > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if > > you leave them overnight for example). > > > > Amber > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > > normal poop coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the > > > abdominal area is extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to > > > explode soon. Very sad looking. The other fish in the tank are > > > looking and acting normal. > What to > > > do? > > > > > > Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48174	From: Noura	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Unfortunately, the Angelfish is dying. It's upside down on the bottom of the tank. I have Clove Oil, but never used it to euthanize a fish. Anybody knows how? Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 2:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT Add it to the hospital tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT It's still swimming in the normal position, but very slowly. It's breathing oddly, opening its mouth too much with each "breath" Its eyes are popping out a little bit. There are no parasite medications for fish in my town. Only for internal and external bacterial disease. I can buy Epsom salt. Should I put it in baths or should I add the salt to the hospital tank? Noura -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT If you can't get the meds Donna has suggested are you able to get epsom salts? It may be too late to use epsom salts though. Does the fish still swim normally or is it tipping upside down? I would definitely take the angelfish out and put it into it's own Q tank while you try to treat it. When I had a bloated gourami I was not able to bring him back to regular size in time before he died. I used meds and green peas and a Q tank and everything, the poor little guy just didn't recover fast enough. I hope you caught this in time for your angel fish :( Amber Noura wrote: > > Green peas are regular ingredients in all of my fish's diet. They're > used to it and like it. > I got the Angelfish to eat only one bite of crushed frozed peas "meat" > yesterday, as it's nearly not eating, but I still don't see any stool > coming out, nor any decrease in the bloating. Idon't know if that is > dropsy. > > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > wrote: > > > > The two medications I use in the US are metronidazole and Clout. > > > > You will want to isolate the fish. Is he eating at all? Often by the > time > > the fish is bloated-looking it is not eating. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BLOAT > > > > Are you able to get (preferably) frozen peas from the grocery store? If > > not you can use canned peas but then you have to eat the rest of the > > can, LOL. > > You can take the peas and warm them up in the microwave (or on the > stove > > if you want to), or under hot water in a bowl for a minute or two so > the > > peas are able to be squished. With canned peas you won't have to do > that. > > Squish the peas so the outer shell comes off and feed the insides of > the > > peas to the angel fish. You may have to work at it a little to get > their > > interest since it doesn't look like most normal fish foods. (I don't > > have any that are bright green at least, LOL). > > Hopefully the angelfish will eat some of the pea insides and that will > > help with the constipation. It's okay if your other fish eat the peas > > too, just make sure to clean up any leftovers because they will > start to > > go bad and foul your tank pretty fast (they will get fuzzy mold if you > > leave them overnight for example). > > > > Amber > > > > Noura wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > My Angelfish (1 yo, 4" long) is totally bloated. And I don't see > > > normal poop > > > coming out, only fine transparent threads. All the abdominal area is > > > extremely bloated, it feels like it's going to explode soon. Very sad > > > looking. The other fish in the tank are looking and acting normal. > What to > > > do? > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48175	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Here's a couple of articles on Euthanasia. Hopefully you can open one or more of the links. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 Here's a copy/paste of the first link's pertinent information just in case: This method is commonly misrepresented as mixing clove oil and vodka together. That is incorrect. Clove oil must be introduced first, allowing the fish to fall asleep before introducing vodka (or other clear grain alcohol... added by Lenny). Vodka will be stressful for a fish that is not anesthetized. Clove oil, or eugenol, is available at most drug stores and is sold as a toothache remedy. It has been used for years as a fish anesthetic for surgeries and tagging procedures. Clove oil will put a fish to sleep and ensure it feels no pain. The fish can wake up from this sleep if removed from the clove bath, however. The last step of adding the vodka will ensure the fish expires. Here are the steps for fish up to 3 inches (7.6 cm) in length: 1. Add tank water to a measuring cup or mixing bowl. Measure the amount of tank water you add to the cup or bowl and make a note of it. Place the fish in the container. If the fish is in a clear cup, place a dark towel around the cup to calm the fish. 2. Fill a small, clean jar or bottle with tank water, leaving some room at the top. You might use a baby food jar or pill bottle. Put 1 drop of clove oil in the jar or bottle, cap, and shake vigorously. The clove oil should emulsify, turning the water milky white. Gently pour about 1/4 of this emulsified mixture into the fish's container. The fish will begin listing as it starts to fall asleep. Let the fish be for about 10 minutes. The fish should be resting on the bottom of the tank when it has fallen asleep. It will look dead, but if you watch closely, its gills will be breathing once every few seconds. If after 10 minutes the fish is still rising off the bottom and swimming intermittently, retrieve the jar or bottle of emulsified clove oil, re-shake, and add the same dose to the fish's container. Wait again. 3. Once the fish is asleep on the bottom, add 20-25% white grain alcohol. For example, if the fish is in 8 oz (240 ml) of water, add 2 oz (60 ml) of vodka. Let the fish stay there for at least 20 minutes. 4. Check the fish carefully after 20 minutes for any gill movement. If there is no gill movement over a 60 second period, the fish has expired. For large fish: Place the fish in a bucket or plastic tub with tank water. Again, measure how much tank water is used. The dose for the mixture in the jar will be 10 drops of clove oil per gallon (3.78 liters). For example, if the fish is placed in 3 gallons (11 liters) of tank water, fill your jar with tank water and add 10 x 3 = 30 drops of clove oil. After shaking the jar vigorously, slowly add the entire mixture to the bucket or tub that contains the fish. Gently mix it in. Once the fish is asleep, follow the previous instructions for adding 20-25% vodka. To eliminate vodka from the procedure and overdose with clove oil alone: Put the fish to sleep first as stated above, waiting 10 minutes for the fish to settle on the bottom. A lethal overdose of clove oil is 50 drops per gallon (3.78 liters), or 5x stronger than the initial dose that anesthetizes the fish. Using the same example, if the fish is in 3 gallons (11 liters) of tank water, the jar's lethal mixture will include 50 x 3 = 150 drops of clove oil. Administer it the same way, by first shaking the jar before adding the mixture to the fish's container. Once you've added the entire mixture to the fish's container, wait a few hours. Finally, make sure there is absolutely no gill movement by watching the gills closely for at least 60 straight seconds. If you see any gill movement, add more emulsified clove oil. Using clove oil alone is not recommended, because even though a fish looks dead it can recover once it has been removed from the bath. Clove oil is a preferred anesthetic precisely because it is hard to overdose a fish with it. Therefore, be especially diligent when using clove oil alone that the fish is really dead. It is much safer to use vodka as the final step. Unacceptable methods of euthanasia include freezing, boiling, chopping, removing the fish from water, using a seltzer tablet, or flushing down the toilet. These methods are slow, torturous, stressful, or violent. Clove oil followed by vodka is both inexpensive and humane. The fish goes to sleep like we might before an operation, and simply doesn't wake up. Hopefully you will rarely have to perform this task, but when you do, it's at least comforting to know your fish does not have to suffer. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT Unfortunately, the Angelfish is dying. It's upside down on the bottom of the tank. I have Clove Oil, but never used it to euthanize a fish. Anybody knows how? Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48176	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Euthanasia

Thank you for this info. didn't really give this a thought. Although I have had guppies go through this. Hopefully I won't rverr have to use it, but good thing to know. ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:05:22 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT Here's a couple of articles on Euthanasia.  Hopefully you can open one or more of the links. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 Here's a copy/paste of the first link's pertinent information just in case: This method is commonly misrepresented as mixing clove oil and vodka together. That is incorrect. Clove oil must be introduced first, allowing the fish to fall asleep before introducing vodka (or other clear grain alcohol... added by Lenny). Vodka will be stressful for a fish that is not anesthetized. Clove oil, or eugenol, is available at most drug stores and is sold as a toothache remedy. It has been used for years as a fish anesthetic for surgeries and tagging procedures. Clove oil will put a fish to sleep and ensure it feels no pain. The fish can wake up from this sleep if removed from the clove bath, however. The last step of adding the vodka will ensure the fish expires. Here are the steps for fish up to 3 inches (7.6 cm) in length: 1. Add tank water to a measuring cup or mixing bowl. Measure the amount of tank water you add to the cup or bowl and make a note of it. Place the fish in the container. If the fish is in a clear cup, place a dark towel around the cup to calm the fish. 2. Fill a small, clean jar or bottle with tank water, leaving some room at the top. You might use a baby food jar or pill bottle. Put 1 drop of clove oil in the jar or bottle, cap, and shake vigorously. The clove oil should emulsify, turning the water milky white. Gently pour about 1/4 of this emulsified mixture into the fish's container. The fish will begin listing as it starts to fall asleep. Let the fish be for about 10 minutes. The fish should be resting on the bottom of the tank when it has fallen asleep. It will look dead, but if you watch closely, its gills will be breathing once every few seconds. If after 10 minutes the fish is still rising off the bottom and swimming intermittently, retrieve the jar or bottle of emulsified clove oil, re-shake, and add the same dose to the fish's container. Wait again. 3. Once the fish is asleep on the bottom, add 20-25% white grain alcohol. For example, if the fish is in 8 oz (240 ml) of water, add 2 oz (60 ml) of vodka. Let the fish stay there for at least 20 minutes. 4. Check the fish carefully after 20 minutes for any gill movement. If there is no gill movement over a 60 second period, the fish has expired. For large fish: Place the fish in a bucket or plastic tub with tank water. Again, measure how much tank water is used. The dose for the mixture in the jar will be 10 drops of clove oil per gallon (3.78 liters). For example, if the fish is placed in 3 gallons (11 liters) of tank water, fill your jar with tank water and add 10 x 3 = 30 drops of clove oil. After shaking the jar vigorously, slowly add the entire mixture to the bucket or tub that contains the fish. Gently mix it in. Once the fish is asleep, follow the previous instructions for adding 20-25% vodka. To eliminate vodka from the procedure and overdose with clove oil alone: Put the fish to sleep first as stated above, waiting 10 minutes for the fish to settle on the bottom. A lethal overdose of clove oil is 50 drops per gallon (3.78 liters), or 5x stronger than the initial dose that anesthetizes the fish. Using the same example, if the fish is in 3 gallons (11 liters) of tank water, the jar's lethal mixture will include 50 x 3 = 150 drops of clove oil. Administer it the same way, by first shaking the jar before adding the mixture to the fish's container. Once you've added the entire mixture to the fish's container, wait a few hours. Finally, make sure there is absolutely no gill movement by watching the gills closely for at least 60 straight seconds. If you see any gill movement, add more emulsified clove oil. Using clove oil alone is not recommended, because even though a fish looks dead it can recover once it has been removed from the bath. Clove oil is a preferred anesthetic precisely because it is hard to overdose a fish with it. Therefore, be especially diligent when using clove oil alone that the fish is really dead. It is much safer to use vodka as the final step. Unacceptable methods of euthanasia include freezing, boiling, chopping, removing the fish from water, using a seltzer tablet, or flushing down the toilet. These methods are slow, torturous, stressful, or violent. Clove oil followed by vodka is both inexpensive and humane. The fish goes to sleep like we might before an operation, and simply doesn't wake up. Hopefully you will rarely have to perform this task, but when you do, it's at least comforting to know your fish does not have to suffer. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT Unfortunately, the Angelfish is dying. It's upside down on the bottom of the tank. I have Clove Oil, but never used it to euthanize  a fish. Anybody knows how? Noura ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48177	From: Noura	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Thanks Lenny. It seems to be working fine. It's a very strange feeling though. I believe it's my first time to purposely euthanize a fish, although I allowed a few fry to be consumed by adult fish in the past. This is totally different, and I feel a ton of hesitation, but doing it anyway! Hope it's the right thing to do. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT Here's a couple of articles on Euthanasia. Hopefully you can open one or more of the links. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81 Here's a copy/paste of the first link's pertinent information just in case: This method is commonly misrepresented as mixing clove oil and vodka together. That is incorrect. Clove oil must be introduced first, allowing the fish to fall asleep before introducing vodka (or other clear grain alcohol... added by Lenny). Vodka will be stressful for a fish that is not anesthetized. Clove oil, or eugenol, is available at most drug stores and is sold as a toothache remedy. It has been used for years as a fish anesthetic for surgeries and tagging procedures. Clove oil will put a fish to sleep and ensure it feels no pain. The fish can wake up from this sleep if removed from the clove bath, however. The last step of adding the vodka will ensure the fish expires. Here are the steps for fish up to 3 inches (7.6 cm) in length: 1. Add tank water to a measuring cup or mixing bowl. Measure the amount of tank water you add to the cup or bowl and make a note of it. Place the fish in the container. If the fish is in a clear cup, place a dark towel around the cup to calm the fish. 2. Fill a small, clean jar or bottle with tank water, leaving some room at the top. You might use a baby food jar or pill bottle. Put 1 drop of clove oil in the jar or bottle, cap, and shake vigorously. The clove oil should emulsify, turning the water milky white. Gently pour about 1/4 of this emulsified mixture into the fish's container. The fish will begin listing as it starts to fall asleep. Let the fish be for about 10 minutes. The fish should be resting on the bottom of the tank when it has fallen asleep. It will look dead, but if you watch closely, its gills will be breathing once every few seconds. If after 10 minutes the fish is still rising off the bottom and swimming intermittently, retrieve the jar or bottle of emulsified clove oil, re-shake, and add the same dose to the fish's container. Wait again. 3. Once the fish is asleep on the bottom, add 20-25% white grain alcohol. For example, if the fish is in 8 oz (240 ml) of water, add 2 oz (60 ml) of vodka. Let the fish stay there for at least 20 minutes. 4. Check the fish carefully after 20 minutes for any gill movement. If there is no gill movement over a 60 second period, the fish has expired. For large fish: Place the fish in a bucket or plastic tub with tank water. Again, measure how much tank water is used. The dose for the mixture in the jar will be 10 drops of clove oil per gallon (3.78 liters). For example, if the fish is placed in 3 gallons (11 liters) of tank water, fill your jar with tank water and add 10 x 3 = 30 drops of clove oil. After shaking the jar vigorously, slowly add the entire mixture to the bucket or tub that contains the fish. Gently mix it in. Once the fish is asleep, follow the previous instructions for adding 20-25% vodka. To eliminate vodka from the procedure and overdose with clove oil alone: Put the fish to sleep first as stated above, waiting 10 minutes for the fish to settle on the bottom. A lethal overdose of clove oil is 50 drops per gallon (3.78 liters), or 5x stronger than the initial dose that anesthetizes the fish. Using the same example, if the fish is in 3 gallons (11 liters) of tank water, the jar's lethal mixture will include 50 x 3 = 150 drops of clove oil. Administer it the same way, by first shaking the jar before adding the mixture to the fish's container. Once you've added the entire mixture to the fish's container, wait a few hours. Finally, make sure there is absolutely no gill movement by watching the gills closely for at least 60 straight seconds. If you see any gill movement, add more emulsified clove oil. Using clove oil alone is not recommended, because even though a fish looks dead it can recover once it has been removed from the bath. Clove oil is a preferred anesthetic precisely because it is hard to overdose a fish with it. Therefore, be especially diligent when using clove oil alone that the fish is really dead. It is much safer to use vodka as the final step. Unacceptable methods of euthanasia include freezing, boiling, chopping, removing the fish from water, using a seltzer tablet, or flushing down the toilet. These methods are slow, torturous, stressful, or violent. Clove oil followed by vodka is both inexpensive and humane. The fish goes to sleep like we might before an operation, and simply doesn't wake up. Hopefully you will rarely have to perform this task, but when you do, it's at least comforting to know your fish does not have to suffer. (END SNIP) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT Unfortunately, the Angelfish is dying. It's upside down on the bottom of the tank. I have Clove Oil, but never used it to euthanize a fish. Anybody knows how? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48178	From: David S	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Goldfish help

Hello, New member here. I've never had goldfish (won at a festival) live more than a day or two. Now my friend Lisa won three and on the way home she bought a ten gallon tank, gravel, plastic plants and Aqeon filter. I had some water sitting in open jugs (only a couple gallons) and the rest was tap water. They were doing great for over a week when she decided the tank needed cleaned. The tank was wiped out with tap water and the gravel rinsed in a bucket. She bought replacement filters, the water was flowing over the bypass. I had the fish in a five gallon bucket so we changed half the water. They seemed ok for awhile then the smallest sat on the bottom. In a couple days they were all on the bottom hiding behind the plants. I added 8 drops of tap water conditioner. Now I notice they look like they're covered with fluffy white spots. Is there anything I can do for them? Thanks, Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48179	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Noura, Sorry to hear that this fish is too heavily infected to be able to be saved, but sometimes these infections are fast moving, beyond the point of curing them. There's no sense in letting them suffer when this happens. Sorry for your loss. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48180	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

Poor little fish. Let's start at the beginning. Most goldfish (especially the torpedo shaped kind, not the fancy kind) need very large tanks, for the fancy goldfish you need at least 35 gallons of water per fish, for the larger ones you really should have a pond. Goldfish are very dirty little pigs, this is part of the reason they need so much water (the other is because they can get rather large). I would do daily water changes (with tap water conditioner per the instructions on the bottle, which out of curiosity what brand are you using?). You're going to need to do water changes maybe even 2 or 3 times a day at no more than 10-15% water changes each time, with at least an hour between the changes. For us to properly diagnose how often you should do water changes we will need to know your water parameters (pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate for starters). Also when you clean the tank you should never need to remove the gravel and deep clean it, just the first time it's put into the tank should be sufficient. When you are cleaning the water pull the filter cartridges and rinse them in the *removed* tap water (in a bucket or such), until the filter cartridge is as clean as you can get it (you can squish it and swirl it around as much as you want though, LOL). What has happened is the goldfish have become stressed with all the cleaning and changing in the tank, not to mention you probably interrupted your Cycle and will have to start all over. When you first start up a fish tank it doesn't have any of the nitrifying bacteria which take care of our ammonia-nitrite-and nitrates (in that order, different types of bacteria eat the waste products of our fish). It takes several weeks or more for all the bacteria to grow and sufficiently eat all the ammonia-nitrite-nitrates in our fish tanks. If you start this cycle with fish in the tank it can be very stressful on them and often times you end up losing the fish from poisoning from their waste (ammonia, nitrite or nitrates). Most people prefer to start a cycle by using plain ammonia, since you're past that point we will try to guide you through this as best we can without losing any of your fish. Regular water changes are your best friend right now. You should also go to walmart.com (or if you prefer to go in person that works too) and get yourself a master test kit (I prefer the API brand), you're looking for the kind with liquid that you add to test vials with your tank water in the vial. These test kits are much more accurate than the dip strips you find in stores. The fluffy white spots are from the fish being stressed and their immune system wasn't working so well, also when you took out the gravel and rinsed it you could have left nasty bacteria in the water (stirred up out of the gravel where it likes to hide) and that could have been what infected them, either way they will need time and possibly some fish medicine to help them recover. I don't have a very good selection of meds here in Alaska so perhaps someone else can suggest one for you to use. Don't want to overwhelm you too much, welcome to the group Dave, hope we can help you out. Amber David S wrote: > > Hello, > New member here. I've never had goldfish (won at a festival) live more > than a day or two. Now my friend Lisa won three and on the way home > she bought a ten gallon tank, gravel, plastic plants and Aqeon filter. > I had some water sitting in open jugs (only a couple gallons) and the > rest was tap water. They were doing great for over a week when she > decided the tank needed cleaned. The tank was wiped out with tap water > and the gravel rinsed in a bucket. She bought replacement filters, the > water was flowing over the bypass. I had the fish in a five gallon > bucket so we changed half the water. They seemed ok for awhile then > the smallest sat on the bottom. In a couple days they were all on the > bottom hiding behind the plants. I added 8 drops of tap water > conditioner. Now I notice they look like they're covered with fluffy > white spots. Is there anything I can do for them? > Thanks, > Dave > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48181	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

Hi Dave, Sound like Ich brought on by stress. I would not be cleaning the tank until the tank had a time to establish proper chemistry and then only after 30 to 45 days of proper feeding. The solution may be a slightly higher temp and some salt crystals of the aquarium type that can be had at an aquarium store for fresh water fish tanks. They may have Ich medications as well there. You did not mention the filter type or if you had a heater to stabilize the temp. These fish are hardy but still can die due to multiple stress situations. the water conditioner should go in at the time of the new water not after the fish have reaction to it. Sam, On 5/24/2010 12:59 PM, David S wrote: > > Hello, > New member here. I've never had goldfish (won at a festival) live more > than a day or two. Now my friend Lisa won three and on the way home > she bought a ten gallon tank, gravel, plastic plants and Aqeon filter. > I had some water sitting in open jugs (only a couple gallons) and the > rest was tap water. They were doing great for over a week when she > decided the tank needed cleaned. The tank was wiped out with tap water > and the gravel rinsed in a bucket. She bought replacement filters, the > water was flowing over the bypass. I had the fish in a five gallon > bucket so we changed half the water. They seemed ok for awhile then > the smallest sat on the bottom. In a couple days they were all on the > bottom hiding behind the plants. I added 8 drops of tap water > conditioner. Now I notice they look like they're covered with fluffy > white spots. Is there anything I can do for them? > Thanks, > Dave > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48182	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

Ok first of all carnival goldfish are usually bred by the hundreds And carry many diseases. They're not really meant for the serious Aquarist. If you want them to be healthy go buy some good quality Goldies. Try to pick one from a tank that has less than 25 fish If possible. And don't buy the feeder goldies either. They are basically The same as the ones sold at carnivals. Follow the directions on the tap conditioner bottle. ALL THE WATER NEEDS TO BE TREATED BEFORE ADDING FISH! otherwise it is extremely fatal and can kill fish very quickly. Also the tank needs to be cycled. In this type of tank I would add a few platys, mollies, or guppies and leave them in there for a few weeks until your tank is stabilized and it is a nontoxic envirorment for fish. Basically the need to do this is because the fish waste will pile up and become toxic for fish. Google " aquarium nitrogen cycle" for full information and directions. I'm not very good with diseases so not sure what the fish died from, but possibly fungus? Anyway directions need to be followed in order to keep fish and ignorance to not learn these things will just bring fish death after death after death. Good luck, Jonathan Sent from my iPod On May 24, 2010, at 1:59 PM, "David S" <daveslis2000@...> wrote: > Hello, > New member here. I've never had goldfish (won at a festival) live > more than a day or two. Now my friend Lisa won three and on the way > home she bought a ten gallon tank, gravel, plastic plants and Aqeon > filter. I had some water sitting in open jugs (only a couple > gallons) and the rest was tap water. They were doing great for over > a week when she decided the tank needed cleaned. The tank was wiped > out with tap water and the gravel rinsed in a bucket. She bought > replacement filters, the water was flowing over the bypass. I had > the fish in a five gallon bucket so we changed half the water. They > seemed ok for awhile then the smallest sat on the bottom. In a > couple days they were all on the bottom hiding behind the plants. I > added 8 drops of tap water conditioner. Now I notice they look like > they're covered with fluffy white spots. Is there anything I can do > for them? > Thanks, > Dave > > > sponsor #ov li a { font-size: 130%; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp- > sponsor #ov li { font-size: 77%; list-style-type: square; padding: > 6px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 8px; } > #ygrp-text { font-family: Georgia; } #ygrp-text p { margin: 0 0 1em > 0; } #ygrp-text tt { font-size: 120%; } #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child > { border-right: none !important; } --> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48183	From: Ray	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

Dave, I guess you realioze by now that you should have added the tap water conditioner as you were adding the tap water. Anyway, depending on the size of these "fluffy white spots," and their actual appearance, these fish may well have contracted a different disease other than the Ich that was mentioned. Since you are though, describing these as "spots," it could otherwiswe indicate Ich, but Ich would never be thought of as being "fluffy" in any sense of the word (unless perhaps, if you put it under a microscope). Ich has the appearance of very fine white dots, looking much as though the fish were sprinkled with salt -- yes, the "spots" are that small. If instead, you mean small areas of fluffy white stuff, this very much sounds like Fungus, in which case the fish need to be treated with a funguscide such as Furan II. If you have any carbon in the filter, you need to remove it or it will take out the medication. For the future, never "clean" the aquarium in such a drastic manner. As already pointed out, since Goldfish grow quite large, they need a much larger tank, but for now just do partal water changes (about 1/3 of the tank) each week, of the same temperature water as the tank -- adding the tap water conditioner as you add the water (only enough to treat the amount of water you're adding -- and make sure this conditioner treats for the additives in your tap water. The water that you are drawing off should be removed from the bottom, as you are cleraning off the gravel of waste products and any uneaten food. Most water companies now add chloramine, so you will need a conditioner that addresses chloramine, not just chlorine (Prime is a good water conditioner, for instance). When "cleaning" the filter, it should never be cleaned all at once -- the filter media should never be replaced all at one time. Actually, this filter media will last for manby months, and SHOULD only be rinsed in aquarium water, then put back in. There is no need to use newe filter media each time, nor should it be replaced in its entirety at any one time. A bit late now, but understandable when considering the circumstances surrounding Lisa'a acquisition of these fish, but ideally the tank should have been "cycled" first by encouraging thd growth of nitrifying bacteria in the filter, which break down the waste products (ammonia and nitrite) of the fish into relatively harmless nitrate. This can take up to 6 weeks (and is yet another reason why the filter media should never be changed all at once. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "David S" <daveslis2000@...> wrote: > > Hello, > New member here. I've never had goldfish (won at a festival) live more than a day or two. Now my friend Lisa won three and on the way home she bought a ten gallon tank, gravel, plastic plants and Aqeon filter. I had some water sitting in open jugs (only a couple gallons) and the rest was tap water. They were doing great for over a week when she decided the tank needed cleaned. The tank was wiped out with tap water and the gravel rinsed in a bucket. She bought replacement filters, the water was flowing over the bypass. I had the fish in a five gallon bucket so we changed half the water. They seemed ok for awhile then the smallest sat on the bottom. In a couple days they were all on the bottom hiding behind the plants. I added 8 drops of tap water conditioner. Now I notice they look like they're covered with fluffy white spots. Is there anything I can do for them? > Thanks, > Dave >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48184	From: Noura	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: BLOAT

Thanks Ray, I appreciate it. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: BLOAT Noura, Sorry to hear that this fish is too heavily infected to be able to be saved, but sometimes these infections are fast moving, beyond the point of curing them. There's no sense in letting them suffer when this happens. Sorry for your loss. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48185	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

Sam, If what Dave is seeing is fluffy, then it is not ich, it is fungus. It probably is ich if the spots are smooth and white. Lisa has three goldfish in a 10 gallon tank. They are normally about 2-3 inches when won at a festival (carnival, whatever). They will produce enough ammonia to get a cycle started, even with daily water changes in the 10-15% range recommended in an earlier reply. What one needs to be careful about is preserving the filter media as much as possible, rinsing it in tank water removed (not tap water) to clean it rather than removing it and replacing it with new. A cycle is normally established between 4 weeks (28 days) and 8 weeks (56 days). This tank will probably be on the long end of that estimate. There is no need to be buying aquarium salt. You can buy the same thing at the grocery for much less. It is known by various names--kosher salt and canning salt are but two. Salt can be used to fight fungus, but it is not nearly as effective as a good fungicide, or, in some cases, an antibiotic. Some fungus looking infections are actually caused by bacteria. If the room temperature is fairly stable, I'd not worry about a heater in this case, however, a heater would be handy to have if the problem is ich, since raising the temperature helps with the treatment of ich by speeding the lifecycle of the ich parasite. David & Lisa, With three comet like goldfish, you probably would need a 75 gallon tank to raise them up to adulthood, and have them grow properly and live a long lifespan. Goldfish will live more than 25 years. There was one whose age was estimated at over 200 years at the time of its death. We are talking about some commitment here. Give them the room they need and lots of veggies along with a good flake, and you'll have them a long time. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Palermo Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 2:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Goldfish help Hi Dave, Sound like Ich brought on by stress. I would not be cleaning the tank until the tank had a time to establish proper chemistry and then only after 30 to 45 days of proper feeding. The solution may be a slightly higher temp and some salt crystals of the aquarium type that can be had at an aquarium store for fresh water fish tanks. They may have Ich medications as well there. You did not mention the filter type or if you had a heater to stabilize the temp. These fish are hardy but still can die due to multiple stress situations. the water conditioner should go in at the time of the new water not after the fish have reaction to it. Sam, On 5/24/2010 12:59 PM, David S wrote: > > Hello, > New member here. I've never had goldfish (won at a festival) live more > than a day or two. Now my friend Lisa won three and on the way home > she bought a ten gallon tank, gravel, plastic plants and Aqeon filter. > I had some water sitting in open jugs (only a couple gallons) and the > rest was tap water. They were doing great for over a week when she > decided the tank needed cleaned. The tank was wiped out with tap water > and the gravel rinsed in a bucket. She bought replacement filters, the > water was flowing over the bypass. I had the fish in a five gallon > bucket so we changed half the water. They seemed ok for awhile then > the smallest sat on the bottom. In a couple days they were all on the > bottom hiding behind the plants. I added 8 drops of tap water > conditioner. Now I notice they look like they're covered with fluffy > white spots. Is there anything I can do for them? > Thanks, > Dave > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48186	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/24/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

Dave, Amber has covered a lot of y'alls newbie mistakes but I'll direct you to more info near the end of my reply. The fluffy white spots could be a fungus or it could be a bacterial infection called columnaris. New fish, especially carnival fish are highly stressed and when fish get stressed, their immune systems suffer and they become far more susceptible to health issues... which is what you are seeing right now. This is going to be tough on you all and the fish while trying to treat the health problems and also getting the nitrogen cycle going and the issues you all are going through right now. I STRONGLY suggest buying SeaChem Prime as your tap water conditioner for now as that will dechlorinate your tap water and also treat the ammonia issues you will be seeing from having three goldfish in a 10G tank. If you don't do this step, then all other steps will prove futile. You might as well get at least an 8 oz. bottle or larger since you will be needing it! If you all have some plain table salt around your home, even Iodized if that's all you have, will be OK. If you don't have enough around the house, go to the grocery and buy some. Kosher salt is good if you're buying new since it does not have any additives. DO NOT waste your money on what they call "Aquarium Salt" as it's just plain old salt at about ten times the price. Next, take 10 level teaspoons of plain salt and mix it in some water until dissolved and then slowly pour this into several spots around the tank... about 1/3rd at a time over the course of a couple of hours. Do NOT pour this high salt water near the filter intake. This will raise the salt level in the tank to 1 teaspoon per gallon. The next day, you will have to raise the salt level by another teaspoon per gallon. Let us know how the fish are doing at 2 teaspoons per gallon. You will also need a decent Master Test Kit. I recommend either the API or Tetra-Laborette Master Test Kits, both available through http://Walmart.com for around $15.00 (with free shipping to your local store) and these will last you about a year under normal to heavy use. Whichever kit you go with, you will also have to add on a to the kit which will cost another $5.00 to $7.00. The API kit will need the API add-on Combo Kit for GH and KH testing. The T-L kit will need the API Ammonia test kit. Once you have these things, have tested your water, make note of the results and let us know and we can advise further. In the interim, using the SeaChem Prime and salt will hopefully keep the fish alive and start getting them well. You will also have to do daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes) and DO NOT fool with or clean your filters until you've read my article on proper filter cleaning and maintenance. Next, you have to ask yourselves if you are willing to go out and buy a MUCH LARGER aquarium if you wall want to keep these goldfish. At least a 6' long 150 gallon tank would be the minimum size for three long bodied goldfish... or if you have a backyard, you could buy a hard plastic kiddie pool as a temporary home for them until you decide on a decent sized pond. If you're not willing to make that kind of investment, then it would be best if you find a pond owner who will take the fish off your hands as trying to get them well in a 10G tank and dealing with all of the cycling issues you will be having will be a LOT OF WORK and you will still need the bigger home for them once they are well. Now, here are some references that you will need to READ ASAP! Go to my "A To Z Of Fish Keeping..." page on my blog. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/02/to-z-of-fish-keeping-how-to-training.h tml OR http://tinyurl.com/A-To-Z-Of-Fish-Keeping Read over that list of stuff to know. Read the link to my article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning" so you won't make those mistakes again. Then take one or both of the Beginner Tutorials (both FREE) which will walk you through a LOT of what you will need to know to keep your fish alive and have them live long healthy lives. BTW... long bodied goldfish should live over 20 years with the record being 43 years but that's only if you give them the right size tank/pond from the start. If you keep them in an undersized tank, they will get stunted and have all kinds of health problems and ultimately die a much earlier and sickly death. Sorry to be so blunt but it's true. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David S Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish help Hello, New member here. I've never had goldfish (won at a festival) live more than a day or two. Now my friend Lisa won three and on the way home she bought a ten gallon tank, gravel, plastic plants and Aqeon filter. I had some water sitting in open jugs (only a couple gallons) and the rest was tap water. They were doing great for over a week when she decided the tank needed cleaned. The tank was wiped out with tap water and the gravel rinsed in a bucket. She bought replacement filters, the water was flowing over the bypass. I had the fish in a five gallon bucket so we changed half the water. They seemed ok for awhile then the smallest sat on the bottom. In a couple days they were all on the bottom hiding behind the plants. I added 8 drops of tap water conditioner. Now I notice they look like they're covered with fluffy white spots. Is there anything I can do for them? Thanks, Dave ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48187	From: David S	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

>I would do daily water changes (with tap water conditioner >per the instructions on the bottle, which out of curiosity >what brand are you using?) >You did not mention the filter type or if you had a heater >to stabilize the temp. Thanks for all the help. The conditioner is from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. One drop per gallon. The filter is an Aqueon Quietflow 10. The cartridge has activated carbon in it. It claims the cart. holster and diffuser removes ammonia and nitrites. Looks like plastic to me! There are 2 pet stores near here and farther away is a large place called "That Fish Place". Not sure if that is a chain. They should have anything I might need. Maybe I shoulda called them and asked when they started sitting on the bottom! Thanks again, Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48188	From: Clint Walker	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

remove me from the list please --- On Mon, 5/24/10, David S <daveslis2000@...> wrote: From: David S <daveslis2000@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish help To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 24, 2010, 8:28 PM   >I would do daily water changes (with tap water conditioner >per the instructions on the bottle, which out of curiosity >what brand are you using?) >You did not mention the filter type or if you had a heater >to stabilize the temp. Thanks for all the help. The conditioner is from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. One drop per gallon. The filter is an Aqueon Quietflow 10. The cartridge has activated carbon in it. It claims the cart. holster and diffuser removes ammonia and nitrites. Looks like plastic to me! There are 2 pet stores near here and farther away is a large place called "That Fish Place". Not sure if that is a chain. They should have anything I might need. Maybe I shoulda called them and asked when they started sitting on the bottom! Thanks again, Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48189	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

API's Tap Water Conditioner is a good product. I use it myself... BUT, for now, you need Seachem's Prime as it will detoxify the ammonia that the fish are putting out via urine, gill function and when any detritus (fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) starts to decay. The filter additive that absorbs ammonia, which is a natural Zeolite substance, does work but the problem with using Zeolite in a filter system is that it absorbs the ammonia instead of allowing the natural nitrogen cycle to start growing nitrifying bacteria in your filter, which is what you will need long term. Further, the BIG problem with Zeolite is that you do not know when it has reached it's absorption capacity and then the ammonia starts building up fast and furious in the tank. It's OK to use in emergency situations but I wouldn't use it as a daily use product. Seachem's Prime will take the ammonia that the fish put out and convert it to a non-toxic form of ammonia that can still be used by nitrifying bacteria without harming the fish. The other BAD thing about Zeolite in filters, especially for newbie's who may not know it, is that if you add salt to a tank, either as a medicinal treatment or for certain fish that like/need salt, salt will cause Zeolite to start releasing the ammonia it has absorbed and that can cause a catastrophic situation as well. Most filters that have Zeolite in them do not warn of this situation. "That Fish Place" is a BIG chain store BUT it does have a good reputation as an online source for good prices on products and even fish. I just don't know how good their employees are at helping people with sick fish or any other problem. I haven't found any store that is reliable since most fish stores do not have a clue about keeping fish alive long term. Their goal is to get fish in and sell them as quickly as possible and to net any dead fish and discard them, or to remove any sick fish to a hidden area before too many customers see all the sick or dead fish in their tanks. Occasionally, you will find an employee or manager of a chain store or more likely with an LFS (Local Fish Store) that will be a good source of information but usually, you have to know the right info first to know if they are giving you good info. Relying on their info from the start could be disastrous. If their answer is to sell you this product or that product, then their info is probably NOT GOOD. 95% of the bottled crap they sell at pet stores is exactly that... bottled crap. The ONLY thing you should be putting in your tank on a regular basis is a good tap water treatment and lots of gravel vacuuming and PWC's (partial water changes)... and then doing proper filter maintenance. Hopefully, you've read my last reply and had a chance to absorb some of the information I provided. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David S Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish help >I would do daily water changes (with tap water conditioner per the >instructions on the bottle, which out of curiosity what brand are you >using?) >You did not mention the filter type or if you had a heater to stabilize >the temp. Thanks for all the help. The conditioner is from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. One drop per gallon. The filter is an Aqueon Quietflow 10. The cartridge has activated carbon in it. It claims the cart. holster and diffuser removes ammonia and nitrites. Looks like plastic to me! There are 2 pet stores near here and farther away is a large place called "That Fish Place". Not sure if that is a chain. They should have anything I might need. Maybe I shoulda called them and asked when they started sitting on the bottom! Thanks again, Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48190	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

To be removed from any Yahoo Group, simply click on the Remove link included in EVERY message you receive. It's as simple as sending an email to the group name followed by "-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com" Here's a snip from below... Now, if you feel you are getting too many emails, you can also use the links below to change yourself to the Daily Digest format or you can also stay in the group and go on "No Mail" so that you can still visit the group online and use the group's features without getting email. You can also change your status to "No Mail" by sending an email to aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com. This also works for any other yahoo group. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clint Walker Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish help remove me from the list please

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48191	From: greychildren	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48192	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid *enthusiast* so it's probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... whether it's a dog (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows it's a mutt... but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass breeders (not you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled (killed) because their birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking for. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people collect these mutant fish. Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48193	From: ackieuk2000	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: turtle

my long neck turtle is laying eggs is there anything i should do , they cant b fertilised she lives alone .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48194	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: turtle

I would probably remove them so they don't rot and foul the water or air... where did she lay them? Do you know the species of your turtle? I thought all of them had long necks... oh wait, that's "Long Neck Bottle", not turtle! (hint -- it's a Garth Brooks song) ;-) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6646770016362661087# Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ackieuk2000 Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] turtle my long neck turtle is laying eggs is there anything i should do , they cant b fertilised she lives alone .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48195	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Lenny, You put that wonderfully! I may have to quote you in the future. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 25, 2010 6:41 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid *enthusiast* so it's probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... whether it's a dog (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows it's a mutt... but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass breeders (not you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled (killed) because their birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking for. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people collect these mutant fish. Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48196	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Thanks for saying it Lenny! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid *enthusiast* so it's probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... whether it's a dog (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows it's a mutt... but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass breeders (not you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled (killed) because their birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking for. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people collect these mutant fish. Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48197	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/25/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Quote away! I actually made a few minor revisions/amendments in the below copy of my original post, so you might want to quote this new one. Heck, I might have to do a new article for my blog. Then you can just post a link! ;-) I'm sure I'll add even more thoughts when I do my blog article. BTW, I just did a couple of new blogs in the past week, but one of those was actually an old article that I had written on another forum back in 2005/2006 and finally got around to transferring it to my blog, my "TOP TEN LIST - Fishless Cycling" (with help from contributors on that forum). I did it as a kind of contest where other forum members could contribute and I picked the TOP TEN funny but serious reasons to fishless cycle.... it's called Edu-tainment! (Enter-cation just doesn't sound right! LOL) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Lenny, You put that wonderfully! I may have to quote you in the future. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 25, 2010 6:41 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid *enthusiast* so it's probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... whether it's a dog (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows it's a mutt... but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass breeders (not you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled (killed) because their birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking for. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body parts, deformities, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people seem to want to collect these mutant fish. Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48198	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

David, Despite Lenny's claim that That Fish Place is a chain, he is wrong. It is a large store, indeed, but it is the only one. The knowledge of the employees varies, some being very knowledgeable, while others know very little. I was rather disappointed with the store the last time I was there, in that they did not seem to be carrying as large a selection of products as they had in the past. However, you should be able to find almost anything you need for your pets (it is not fish only--we stop by every year or so (it is about 2.5 hours from us) when we happen to be in the area). We are all waiting for your water test results, upon which we can give you or thorough advice to get you out of your current dilemma (well, Lisa's dilemma) rather than the generalities we have been talking about initially. Once you have tested the tank water, you can also test the tap water. You'll need a container to hold the water, and then run the same tests run in your tank--pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate--taken initially, with water in the container straight from the tap, then again from the container of water 24 hours (roughly) later, and then again after another 24 hours. The reason for the three tests is that as water sits, it can show a difference in the parameters you are measuring s it comes to equilibrium. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David S Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish help >I would do daily water changes (with tap water conditioner >per the instructions on the bottle, which out of curiosity >what brand are you using?) >You did not mention the filter type or if you had a heater >to stabilize the temp. Thanks for all the help. The conditioner is from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. One drop per gallon. The filter is an Aqueon Quietflow 10. The cartridge has activated carbon in it. It claims the cart. holster and diffuser removes ammonia and nitrites. Looks like plastic to me! There are 2 pet stores near here and farther away is a large place called "That Fish Place". Not sure if that is a chain. They should have anything I might need. Maybe I shoulda called them and asked when they started sitting on the bottom! Thanks again, Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48199	From: jaiko	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Good post Lenny; The problem is i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia.     I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals.     Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i wonder why? --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM   While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid *enthusiast* so it's probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... whether it's a dog (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows it's a mutt... but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass breeders (not you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled (killed) because their birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking for. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people collect these mutant fish. Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48200	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Hi greychildren!   "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking about that "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be interested in photo's of the results. ol'bill------just passing through --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM > Good post Lenny; The problem is i > have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. >   >   > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. >   >   > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the > moderator yet..i wonder why? > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > >   > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an > individual fish owner > allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good > idea for that > fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > *enthusiast* so it's > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints > from. > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's > the downside of > hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > around and then folks > somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once > again, especially if > it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can > really muck > things up years down the line for folks that are trying to > keep their fish > lines pure. > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized > animal clubs > around the world, which track the lineage of registered > animals, nobody > tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they > think is a very nice > looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics > that results in > any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually > being a bunch of > mutts. > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > whether it's a dog > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great > American Mutt), > cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > it's a mutt... > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY > different types of > fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not > understand nor have > a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some > mass breeders (not > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more > in-breeding, in order > to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities > or "mutant > fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > complaint from > most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is > now being mass > in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of > a hatch of > hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > (killed) because their > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were > looking for. > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with > breeders > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain > like growths on > the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body > parts, etc., > people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people > collect these mutant > fish. > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in > everybody... > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and > pink convict > mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > up.. and yes i > know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was > and accident. > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and > some stripes. > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm > willing to let go of > some of these guys. > > enjoy! > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48201	From: jaiko	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Thank you bill   I placed some pics up but they have not been approved as of yet. I have about 60 there about and inch now. There pink with black grey stripes and a black dot close to there tails.   Yea the super tank i been dreaming off (not enough space in a one bedroom apartment) --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:19 AM   Hi greychildren!   "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking about that "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be interested in photo's of the results. ol'bill------just passing through --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM > Good post Lenny; The problem is i > have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. >   >   > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. >   >   > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the > moderator yet..i wonder why? > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > >   > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an > individual fish owner > allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good > idea for that > fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > *enthusiast* so it's > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints > from. > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's > the downside of > hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > around and then folks > somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once > again, especially if > it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can > really muck > things up years down the line for folks that are trying to > keep their fish > lines pure. > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized > animal clubs > around the world, which track the lineage of registered > animals, nobody > tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they > think is a very nice > looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics > that results in > any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually > being a bunch of > mutts. > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > whether it's a dog > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great > American Mutt), > cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > it's a mutt... > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY > different types of > fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not > understand nor have > a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some > mass breeders (not > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more > in-breeding, in order > to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities > or "mutant > fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > complaint from > most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is > now being mass > in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of > a hatch of > hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > (killed) because their > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were > looking for. > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with > breeders > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain > like growths on > the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body > parts, etc., > people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people > collect these mutant > fish. > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in > everybody... > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and > pink convict > mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > up.. and yes i > know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was > and accident. > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and > some stripes. > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm > willing to let go of > some of these guys. > > enjoy! > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48202	From: jaiko	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Pictures here these guys dont stop moving.   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/recent/1886662910/view   --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:19 AM   Hi greychildren!   "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking about that "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be interested in photo's of the results. ol'bill------just passing through --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM > Good post Lenny; The problem is i > have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. >   >   > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. >   >   > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the > moderator yet..i wonder why? > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > >   > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an > individual fish owner > allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good > idea for that > fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > *enthusiast* so it's > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints > from. > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's > the downside of > hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > around and then folks > somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once > again, especially if > it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can > really muck > things up years down the line for folks that are trying to > keep their fish > lines pure. > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized > animal clubs > around the world, which track the lineage of registered > animals, nobody > tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they > think is a very nice > looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics > that results in > any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually > being a bunch of > mutts. > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > whether it's a dog > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great > American Mutt), > cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > it's a mutt... > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY > different types of > fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not > understand nor have > a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some > mass breeders (not > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more > in-breeding, in order > to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities > or "mutant > fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > complaint from > most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is > now being mass > in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of > a hatch of > hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > (killed) because their > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were > looking for. > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with > breeders > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain > like growths on > the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body > parts, etc., > people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people > collect these mutant > fish. > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in > everybody... > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and > pink convict > mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > up.. and yes i > know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was > and accident. > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and > some stripes. > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm > willing to let go of > some of these guys. > > enjoy! > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48203	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

I agree with you on the euthanasia part once the fish have hatched, other than culling obviously deformed fry, which is why it would have been better to NOT let them hatch in the first place if you don't have space for them. I've intentionally vacuumed up eggs on numerous occasions for fish that I did not have room to grow out... like whenever my goldfish scatter eggs all over during their mating spurts. I don't have room to grow out a bunch of goldfish so I have to vacuum up the eggs. I think Amber has to remove clutches of eggs from her Apple/Mystery Snails when her tank has enough of them already. Now, if you have pure bred fish or snails and you want to get into selling them, or even giving them away for free and you have the space and time to grow out the fry, then it's fine to do that but if you let hybrids hatch, then you just have to accept that they are yours or at least only given to someone who is responsible and explicitly KNOWS that these fish are NOT to be distributed any further... but you may not have control of this person once you give them the hybrids and that means that you could be responsible for hybrid fish getting let loose in the wild or being mixed with pure bred fish causing all of their offspring to be mutts. IMO, it's just a situation that is best avoided in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jaiko Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Good post Lenny; The problem is i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia.     I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals.     Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i wonder why? --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM   While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid *enthusiast* so it's probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... whether it's a dog (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows it's a mutt... but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass breeders (not you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled (killed) because their birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking for. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people collect these mutant fish. Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48204	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Bill said: "How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with?" Intelligent Design (aka God... or Mother Nature for folks who do not believe in God)... BUT not by man-made design or accident. It's not "nature" when it happens in an aquarium. These two fish would probably never interact and almost certainly not inter-breed in nature. But in nature, when it does happen, then it was due to the Intelligent Design and if/when a new species develops due to it happening naturally, then that is OK with me but not when it's caused by man in an aquarium. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hi greychildren!   "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking about that "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be interested in photo's of the results. ol'bill------just passing through --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM Good post Lenny; The problem is > i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > Â > Â > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. > Â > Â > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i > wonder why? > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > wrote: > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > Â > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish > owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea > for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > *enthusiast* so it's > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the > downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to > cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells > these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line > for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal > clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, > nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is > a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics > that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, > actually being a bunch of mutts. > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > whether it's a dog > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American > Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > it's a mutt... > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types > of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand > nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass > breeders (not > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in > order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or > "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which > is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish > out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > (killed) because their > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking > for. > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like > growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body > parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people > collect these mutant fish. > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of greychildren > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink > convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this > was and accident. > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go > of some of these guys. > > enjoy!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48205	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

You folks never said-----------or I missed it( a common problem at my age), what size tank are they in now and how many did you say you have? If you ever figure how to "keep the fish from moving" for photos, I'd be most interested in the information! Same trouble here! <g> Bookmarked your picture sight and will return for updates. bill --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:41 AM > Thank you bill > ﾂ� > I placed some pics up but they have not been approved as > ofﾂ�yet. I have about 60 there about and inch now. There > pink with black grey stripes and a black dot close to there > tails. > ﾂ� > Yea the super tank i been dreaming off (not enough space in > a one bedroom apartment) > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:19 AM > > > ﾂ� > > > > Hi greychildren! > ﾂ� > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". > > How do ya think we got so many different species to begin > with? > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so > don't reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good time to > start thinking about that "Super" tank you've always dreamed > of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep them separated and > see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be > interested in photo's of the results. > > ol'bill------just passing through > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM > > Good post Lenny; The problem is i > > have too many and no space for them(what can i do with > these > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > > ﾃつ� > > ﾃつ� > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you > do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us > mortals. > > ﾃつ� > > ﾃつ� > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the > > moderator yet..i wonder why? > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > grown > > up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > > ﾃつ� > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an > > individual fish owner > > allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a > good > > idea for that > > fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > *enthusiast* so it's > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most > complaints > > from. > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now > that's > > the downside of > > hybrids... when their creators start distributing > them > > around and then folks > > somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed > once > > again, especially if > > it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. > It can > > really muck > > things up years down the line for folks that are > trying to > > keep their fish > > lines pure. > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other > recognized > > animal clubs > > around the world, which track the lineage of > registered > > animals, nobody > > tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what > they > > think is a very nice > > looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized > genetics > > that results in > > any offspring, that they thought would be pure, > actually > > being a bunch of > > mutts. > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > > whether it's a dog > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- > Great > > American Mutt), > > cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it > knows > > it's a mutt... > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of > knowing. > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY > > different types of > > fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do > not > > understand nor have > > a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with > some > > mass breeders (not > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more > > in-breeding, in order > > to intentionally create some of the intentional > deformities > > or "mutant > > fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also > the > > complaint from > > most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid > which is > > now being mass > > in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish > out of > > a hatch of > > hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > > (killed) because their > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's > were > > looking for. > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, > with > > breeders > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, > brain > > like growths on > > the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing > body > > parts, etc., > > people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, > people > > collect these mutant > > fish. > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in > > everybody... > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth > and > > pink convict > > mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost > grown > > up.. and yes i > > know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but > this was > > and accident. > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot > and > > some stripes. > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm > > willing to let go of > > some of these guys. > > > > enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾂ� ﾂ� ﾂ� > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.><((((ﾂｺ>.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ><((((ﾂｺ> > > ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. , > .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..><((((ﾂｺ> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <ﾂｺ((((><.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. > > , > .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.ﾂ� > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ﾂ� ﾂ� AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸｸ.><((((ｺ>.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸｸ.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸ><((((ｺ> > ｸ.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸ. , > .ｷｴｯ`ｷ..><((((ｺ> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ｺ((((><.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸｸ.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸ<ｺ((((><ｸ.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸ. > , .ｷｴｯ`ｷ..<ｺ((((><ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸｸ. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48206	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: ATT: Amber

Hi, I am Nancy. I am in this group. I have a question. I also have apple snails. Do  they has certain times during year they lay eggs? I was expecting some this spring but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all adults. Maybe moving has something to do with it. If you have any ideas, please email me. Thanks for being here. Nancy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48207	From: jaiko	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Bill   There housed in a 40g and i have about 60 Fry's with a cascade 300 hob pushing about 80gh.. according to my calculation the 40g tank water gets circulated twice every hours ? Lenny   I did not noticed the fry till they were hatched already they were hiding the eggs some were i did not see it. If i had noticed the egg i will have removed them from the tank.   --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 12:23 PM   You folks never said-----------or I missed it( a common problem at my age), what size tank are they in now and how many did you say you have? If you ever figure how to "keep the fish from moving" for photos, I'd be most interested in the information! Same trouble here! <g> Bookmarked your picture sight and will return for updates. bill --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:41 AM > Thank you bill > ﾂ� > I placed some pics up but they have not been approved as > ofﾂ�yet. I have about 60 there about and inch now. There > pink with black grey stripes and a black dot close to there > tails. > ﾂ� > Yea the super tank i been dreaming off (not enough space in > a one bedroom apartment) > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:19 AM > > > ﾂ� > > > > Hi greychildren! > ﾂ� > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". > > How do ya think we got so many different species to begin > with? > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so > don't reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good time to > start thinking about that "Super" tank you've always dreamed > of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep them separated and > see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be > interested in photo's of the results. > > ol'bill------just passing through > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM > > Good post Lenny; The problem is i > > have too many and no space for them(what can i do with > these > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > > ﾃã�¤ï¿½ > > ﾃã�¤ï¿½ > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you > do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us > mortals. > > ﾃã�¤ï¿½ > > ﾃã�¤ï¿½ > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the > > moderator yet..i wonder why? > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > grown > > up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > > ﾃã�¤ï¿½ > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an > > individual fish owner > > allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a > good > > idea for that > > fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > *enthusiast* so it's > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most > complaints > > from. > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now > that's > > the downside of > > hybrids... when their creators start distributing > them > > around and then folks > > somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed > once > > again, especially if > > it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. > It can > > really muck > > things up years down the line for folks that are > trying to > > keep their fish > > lines pure. > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other > recognized > > animal clubs > > around the world, which track the lineage of > registered > > animals, nobody > > tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what > they > > think is a very nice > > looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized > genetics > > that results in > > any offspring, that they thought would be pure, > actually > > being a bunch of > > mutts. > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > > whether it's a dog > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- > Great > > American Mutt), > > cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it > knows > > it's a mutt... > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of > knowing. > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY > > different types of > > fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do > not > > understand nor have > > a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with > some > > mass breeders (not > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more > > in-breeding, in order > > to intentionally create some of the intentional > deformities > > or "mutant > > fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also > the > > complaint from > > most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid > which is > > now being mass > > in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish > out of > > a hatch of > > hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > > (killed) because their > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's > were > > looking for. > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, > with > > breeders > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, > brain > > like growths on > > the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing > body > > parts, etc., > > people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, > people > > collect these mutant > > fish. > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in > > everybody... > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are > listed > > on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > Archives > > by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth > and > > pink convict > > mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost > grown > > up.. and yes i > > know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but > this was > > and accident. > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot > and > > some stripes. > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm > > willing to let go of > > some of these guys. > > > > enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾂ� ﾂ� ﾂ� > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.><((((ﾂｺ>.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ><((((ﾂｺ> > > ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. , > .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..><((((ﾂｺ> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <ﾂｺ((((><.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. > > , > .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.ﾂ� > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ﾂ� ﾂ� AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸｸ.><((((ｺ>.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸｸ.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸ><((((ｺ> > ｸ.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸ. , > .ｷｴｯ`ï½·..><((((ｺ> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ｺ((((><.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸｸ.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸ<ｺ((((><ｸ.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸ. > , .ｷｴｯ`ï½·..<ｺ((((><ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸｸ. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48208	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber

Apple snails will lay eggs at any time, they need to feel secure and well fed to do so (not to mention they need to be adult sized, for mystery snails that's about an inch or more in size). How many of them do you have? If they have not laid eggs it could be because they don't think their babies will survive (perhaps you don't feed the tank enough? just a guess though). Or a more likely reason is that you have all females and no males in your group of snails. I have easily over 50 mystery snails (still babies) and a couple of adult females that missed the last harvest; I harvest all of my adults and give them to a friend who cooks them and eats them (hey to each their own), this helps me from being over populated by mystery snails, and I love to watch them grow up :). What are your water parameters? Apple snails need harder water to survive as lower hardness levels will cause their shells to slowly deteriorate. They won't breed if this is happening either as they won't think it's a safe environment for babies to be raised in. Amber Nancy Lee wrote: > > Hi, > I am Nancy. I am in this group. I have a question. I > also > have apple snails. Do they has certain times during > year they lay eggs? I was expecting some this spring > but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all adults. > Maybe > moving has something to do with it. If you have any > ideas, please email me. > > Thanks for being here. > Nancy > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48209	From: ackieuk2000	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: turtle

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would probably remove them so they don't rot and foul the water or air... > where did she lay them? Do you know the species of your turtle? I thought > all of them had long necks... oh wait, that's "Long Neck Bottle", not > turtle! (hint -- it's a Garth Brooks song) ;-) > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6646770016362661087# > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ackieuk2000 > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] turtle > > my long neck turtle is laying eggs is there anything i should do , they cant > b fertilised she lives alone . > she ate them all , i'm not really sure what kind of turtle she is i rescued her , her owners didnt want her because she grew to big so i took her rather than her being killed .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48210	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

I think we have about 8(?) moderators now. Were they uploaded correctly? I do not recall seeing them but then again I get hundreds of emails a day and could have overlooked them. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: jaiko <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 3:15 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Good post Lenny; The problem is i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia.     I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals.     Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i wonder why? --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM   While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid *enthusiast* so it's probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... whether it's a dog (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows it's a mutt... but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass breeders (not you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled (killed) because their birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking for. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people collect these mutant fish. Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48211	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: turtle

I didn't know turtles ate their own eggs also but this is very common for fish to do. If you can take a picture, I'm sure one of us would be able to guide you towards at least a Genus, if not the exact species. One of the most common aquarium kept species that I've seen is the "slider" group of turtles, like the RES (Red Ear Slider -- there is also a Yellow Ear Slider and possibly other colors), which has that common name because it has reddish colored ovals where ears would be on a humans head. If you have an RES, let us know and I can point you to some good websites for information on their care and needs. Almost ALL turtles get BIG. They are cute when they are little 1" to 2" turtles and lots of parents buy them for their kids (I got my RES that way as a kid) and the pet stores sell the little turtle bowl without telling folks that these cute little turtles will or should grow into BIG turtles. The RES gets around a foot (12") in diameter and turtles are also pretty dirty with lots of eating and pooping going on so they need good filtration that is cleaned frequently (at least weekly or more often), lots of water changes and harder water is best but if one has soft water, there are additives to their water and diet that will help them maintain proper shell growth and health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ackieuk2000 Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: turtle she ate them all , i'm not really sure what kind of turtle she is i rescued her , her owners didnt want her because she grew to big so i took her rather than her being killed . --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > I would probably remove them so they don't rot and foul the water or air... > where did she lay them? Do you know the species of your turtle? I > thought all of them had long necks... oh wait, that's "Long Neck > Bottle", not turtle! (hint -- it's a Garth Brooks song) ;-) > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6646770016362661087# > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of ackieuk2000 > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] turtle > > my long neck turtle is laying eggs is there anything i should do , > they cant b fertilised she lives alone .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48212	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

You can stock an African tank with natural predators like Synodontis Multipunctatus to handle the fry patrol the way mother nature intended. Unfortunately now that they were created and even raised they may need to remain your responsibility. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol I agree with you on the euthanasia part once the fish have hatched, other than culling obviously deformed fry, which is why it would have been better to NOT let them hatch in the first place if you don't have space for them. I've intentionally vacuumed up eggs on numerous occasions for fish that I did not have room to grow out... like whenever my goldfish scatter eggs all over during their mating spurts. I don't have room to grow out a bunch of goldfish so I have to vacuum up the eggs. I think Amber has to remove clutches of eggs from her Apple/Mystery Snails when her tank has enough of them already. Now, if you have pure bred fish or snails and you want to get into selling them, or even giving them away for free and you have the space and time to grow out the fry, then it's fine to do that but if you let hybrids hatch, then you just have to accept that they are yours or at least only given to someone who is responsible and explicitly KNOWS that these fish are NOT to be distributed any further... but you may not have control of this person once you give them the hybrids and that means that you could be responsible for hybrid fish getting let loose in the wild or being mixed with pure bred fish causing all of their offspring to be mutts. IMO, it's just a situation that is best avoided in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of jaiko Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Good post Lenny; The problem is i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i wonder why? --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid *enthusiast* so it's probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... whether it's a dog (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows it's a mutt... but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass breeders (not you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled (killed) because their birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking for. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people collect these mutant fish. Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48213	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Someone has to say it. You may not believe in euthanasia but if there is someone in your area with a cull fish. Aka a fish that eats unwanted fish. I was thrilled when my first pair of convicts spawned in about 2 seconds after getting out of the bag I brought them home in. But shortly after that I had 100 + babies swimming around the tank. Removed the parents for a day and let the other fish handle it and all was back to normal. Barring that your hands are full. Donna's advice is a great for the future spawns. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 6:00 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol You can stock an African tank with natural predators like Synodontis Multipunctatus to handle the fry patrol the way mother nature intended. Unfortunately now that they were created and even raised they may need to remain your responsibility. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol I agree with you on the euthanasia part once the fish have hatched, other than culling obviously deformed fry, which is why it would have been better to NOT let them hatch in the first place if you don't have space for them. I've intentionally vacuumed up eggs on numerous occasions for fish that I did not have room to grow out... like whenever my goldfish scatter eggs all over during their mating spurts. I don't have room to grow out a bunch of goldfish so I have to vacuum up the eggs. I think Amber has to remove clutches of eggs from her Apple/Mystery Snails when her tank has enough of them already. Now, if you have pure bred fish or snails and you want to get into selling them, or even giving them away for free and you have the space and time to grow out the fry, then it's fine to do that but if you let hybrids hatch, then you just have to accept that they are yours or at least only given to someone who is responsible and explicitly KNOWS that these fish are NOT to be distributed any further... but you may not have control of this person once you give them the hybrids and that means that you could be responsible for hybrid fish getting let loose in the wild or being mixed with pure bred fish causing all of their offspring to be mutts. IMO, it's just a situation that is best avoided in the first place. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; ] On Behalf Of jaiko Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Good post Lenny; The problem is i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i wonder why? --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>; > wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@... <mailto:GoldLenny%40gmail.com>; > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid *enthusiast* so it's probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... whether it's a dog (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows it's a mutt... but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass breeders (not you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled (killed) because their birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking for. The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people collect these mutant fish. Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; ] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this was and accident. These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go of some of these guys. enjoy! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48214	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: turtle

Hello:     How long have you had the turtle?  This is very important because if it has been within the last month or two the animal may have already bred and the eggs might very well be good.  This is a more common accurrence than many might believe.  In any case, if the eggs were laid in the water they need to be retrieved immediately.  They can be placed in a shoebox in potting soil with a little moisture  (for now anyway).  let us know and we can go from there.  Do you know what kind of turtle it is?    Have a Great Day!!!    John (aka, "Spawn") ________________________________ From: ackieuk2000 <ackieuk2000@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 5:14:26 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] turtle   my long neck turtle is laying eggs is there anything i should do , they cant b fertilised she lives alone . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48215	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/26/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Yes, I'm afraid I must agree with others here who suggest culling, you have little choice and later, as the fish grow out, it could be quite a blood bath if not handled properly. Fights for space as well as food will be rampant and not a pleasure to watch. With the room restrictions you have mentioned from the apartment side of it, there's no way to go. A 75 would only take up the difference in width coming away from the wall,if your 40 is a standard 48 x 13 x 16 or 18 inches high. Or with just another foot in length, if you could possibly handle the width, a standard 100-gallon at 5 feet, 21 or 22 inches high, and 18 inches in width would be the best but even this size could not accommodate all sixty of them at maturity. The only bright spot may be that is highly likely that these fish may be sterile to some extent and may not breed within themselves. I seem to remember reading some place that when species cross like this that is a normal condition. I was also wondering, and again may have missed the forwarding comment from you, after this spawn, what happened to the parents? Bill --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 12:40 PM > Bill >   > There housed in a 40g and i have about 60 Fry's with a > cascade 300 hob pushing about 80gh.. according to my > calculation the 40g tank water gets circulated twice every > hours ? > > Lenny >   > I did not noticed the fry till they were hatched already > they were hiding the eggs some were i did not see it. If i > had noticed the egg i will have removed them from the tank. >   > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 12:23 PM > > >   > > > > You folks never said-----------or I missed it( a common > problem at my age), what size tank are they in now and how > many did you say you have? > > If you ever figure how to "keep the fish from moving" for > photos, I'd be most interested in the information! Same > trouble here! <g> > > Bookmarked your picture sight and will return for updates. > > bill > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:41 AM > > Thank you bill > > ﾂ� > > I placed some pics up but they have not been approved > as > > ofﾂ�yet. I have about 60 > there about and inch now. There > > pink with black grey stripes and a black dot close to > there > > tails. > > ﾂ� > > Yea the super tank i been dreaming off (not enough > space in > > a one bedroom apartment) > > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > grown > > up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:19 AM > > > > > > ﾂ� > > > > > > > > Hi greychildren! > > ﾂ� > > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you > do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us > mortals". > > > > How do ya think we got so many different species to > begin > > with? > > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for > awhile? > > > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and > so > > don't reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good > time to > > start thinking about that "Super" tank you've always > dreamed > > of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep them separated > and > > see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be > > interested in photo's of the results. > > > > ol'bill------just passing through > > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > grown > > up..lol > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM > > > Good post Lenny; The problem is i > > > have too many and no space for them(what can i do > with > > these > > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > > > ﾃ�� > > > ﾃ�� > > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as > you > > do. > > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us > > mortals. > > > ﾃ�� > > > ﾃ�� > > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by > the > > > moderator yet..i wonder why? > > > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > > grown > > > up..lol > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > > > > > ﾃ�� > > > > > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if > an > > > individual fish owner > > > allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think > it's a > > good > > > idea for that > > > fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > > *enthusiast* so it's > > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most > > complaints > > > from. > > > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... > now > > that's > > > the downside of > > > hybrids... when their creators start > distributing > > them > > > around and then folks > > > somewhere down the line allows them to > cross-breed > > once > > > again, especially if > > > it's a breeder that then sells these > hybrid-hybrids. > > It can > > > really muck > > > things up years down the line for folks that are > > trying to > > > keep their fish > > > lines pure. > > > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other > > recognized > > > animal clubs > > > around the world, which track the lineage of > > registered > > > animals, nobody > > > tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of > what > > they > > > think is a very nice > > > looking pure bred fish ends up getting > hybridized > > genetics > > > that results in > > > any offspring, that they thought would be pure, > > actually > > > being a bunch of > > > mutts. > > > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a > mutt... > > > whether it's a dog > > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's > --- > > Great > > > American Mutt), > > > cat, fish or whatever as long as the person > buying it > > knows > > > it's a mutt... > > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of > > knowing. > > > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO > MANY > > > different types of > > > fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I > do > > not > > > understand nor have > > > a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists > with > > some > > > mass breeders (not > > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then > more > > > in-breeding, in order > > > to intentionally create some of the intentional > > deformities > > > or "mutant > > > fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is > also > > the > > > complaint from > > > most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot > Cichlid > > which is > > > now being mass > > > in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking > fish > > out of > > > a hatch of > > > hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is > culled > > > (killed) because their > > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. > Frankenstein's > > were > > > looking for. > > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other > pet, > > with > > > breeders > > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble > eyes, > > brain > > > like growths on > > > the tops of their heads, missing legs or other > missing > > body > > > parts, etc., > > > people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, > > people > > > collect these mutant > > > fish. > > > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or > devil) in > > > everybody... > > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > grown > > up..lol > > > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire > mouth > > and > > > pink convict > > > mated and had off springs,, well they guys are > almost > > grown > > > up.. and yes i > > > know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids > but > > this was > > > and accident. > > > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black > dot > > and > > > some stripes. > > > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also > I'm > > > willing to let go of > > > some of these guys. > > > > > > enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾂ� > ﾂ� ﾂ� > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.><((((ﾂｺ>.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ><((((ﾂｺ> > > > > ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. > , > > > .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..><((((ﾂｺ> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC > > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> > > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <ﾂｺ((((><.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. > > > , > > > .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page.ﾂ� > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts > > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able > > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > ﾂ� > ﾂ� AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸｸ.><((((ｺ>.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸｸ.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸ><((((ｺ> > > > ｸ.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸ. > , > > > .ｷｴｯ`ï½·..><((((ｺ> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <ｺ((((><.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸｸ.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸ<ｺ((((><ｸ.ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸ. > > , > .ｷｴｯ`ï½·..<ｺ((((><ｷｴｯ`ï½·.ｸｸ. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48216	From: jaiko	Date: 5/27/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Hi Bill yes the tank is a stander 40g , and the parent female pink convict male firemouth(firemouth did not survive convict killed it) --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:30 PM   Yes, I'm afraid I must agree with others here who suggest culling, you have little choice and later, as the fish grow out, it could be quite a blood bath if not handled properly. Fights for space as well as food will be rampant and not a pleasure to watch. With the room restrictions you have mentioned from the apartment side of it, there's no way to go. A 75 would only take up the difference in width coming away from the wall,if your 40 is a standard 48 x 13 x 16 or 18 inches high. Or with just another foot in length, if you could possibly handle the width, a standard 100-gallon at 5 feet, 21 or 22 inches high, and 18 inches in width would be the best but even this size could not accommodate all sixty of them at maturity. The only bright spot may be that is highly likely that these fish may be sterile to some extent and may not breed within themselves. I seem to remember reading some place that when species cross like this that is a normal condition. I was also wondering, and again may have missed the forwarding comment from you, after this spawn, what happened to the parents? Bill --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 12:40 PM > Bill > ﾃつ� > There housed in a 40g and i have about 60 Fry's with a > cascade 300 hob pushing about 80gh.. according to my > calculation the 40g tank water gets circulated twice every > hours ? > > Lenny > ﾃつ� > I did not noticed the fry till they were hatched already > they were hiding the eggs some were i did not see it. If i > had noticed the egg i will have removed them from the tank. > ﾃつ� > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 12:23 PM > > > ﾃつ� > > > > You folks never said-----------or I missed it( a common > problem at my age), what size tank are they in now and how > many did you say you have? > > If you ever figure how to "keep the fish from moving" for > photos, I'd be most interested in the information! Same > trouble here! <g> > > Bookmarked your picture sight and will return for updates. > > bill > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown > up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:41 AM > > Thank you bill > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > I placed some pics up but they have not been approved > as > > ofﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽyet. I have about 60 > there about and inch now. There > > pink with black grey stripes and a black dot close to > there > > tails. > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > Yea the super tank i been dreaming off (not enough > space in > > a one bedroom apartment) > > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > grown > > up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:19 AM > > > > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > > > > > > > Hi greychildren! > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you > do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us > mortals". > > > > How do ya think we got so many different species to > begin > > with? > > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for > awhile? > > > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and > so > > don't reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good > time to > > start thinking about that "Super" tank you've always > dreamed > > of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep them separated > and > > see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be > > interested in photo's of the results. > > > > ol'bill------just passing through > > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> > > wrote: > > > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > grown > > up..lol > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM > > > Good post Lenny; The problem is i > > > have too many and no space for them(what can i do > with > > these > > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ�窶凖δ｣ﾃｯﾂｿﾂｽﾃつ､ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ�窶凖δ｣ﾃｯﾂｿﾂｽﾃつ､ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as > you > > do. > > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us > > mortals. > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ�窶凖δ｣ﾃｯﾂｿﾂｽﾃつ､ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ�窶凖δ｣ﾃｯﾂｿﾂｽﾃつ､ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by > the > > > moderator yet..i wonder why? > > > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > <GoldLenny@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > > grown > > > up..lol > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > > > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ�窶凖δ｣ﾃｯﾂｿﾂｽﾃつ､ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > > > > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if > an > > > individual fish owner > > > allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think > it's a > > good > > > idea for that > > > fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > > *enthusiast* so it's > > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most > > complaints > > > from. > > > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... > now > > that's > > > the downside of > > > hybrids... when their creators start > distributing > > them > > > around and then folks > > > somewhere down the line allows them to > cross-breed > > once > > > again, especially if > > > it's a breeder that then sells these > hybrid-hybrids. > > It can > > > really muck > > > things up years down the line for folks that are > > trying to > > > keep their fish > > > lines pure. > > > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other > > recognized > > > animal clubs > > > around the world, which track the lineage of > > registered > > > animals, nobody > > > tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of > what > > they > > > think is a very nice > > > looking pure bred fish ends up getting > hybridized > > genetics > > > that results in > > > any offspring, that they thought would be pure, > > actually > > > being a bunch of > > > mutts. > > > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a > mutt... > > > whether it's a dog > > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's > --- > > Great > > > American Mutt), > > > cat, fish or whatever as long as the person > buying it > > knows > > > it's a mutt... > > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of > > knowing. > > > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO > MANY > > > different types of > > > fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I > do > > not > > > understand nor have > > > a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists > with > > some > > > mass breeders (not > > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then > more > > > in-breeding, in order > > > to intentionally create some of the intentional > > deformities > > > or "mutant > > > fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is > also > > the > > > complaint from > > > most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot > Cichlid > > which is > > > now being mass > > > in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking > fish > > out of > > > a hatch of > > > hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is > culled > > > (killed) because their > > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. > Frankenstein's > > were > > > looking for. > > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other > pet, > > with > > > breeders > > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble > eyes, > > brain > > > like growths on > > > the tops of their heads, missing legs or other > missing > > body > > > parts, etc., > > > people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, > > people > > > collect these mutant > > > fish. > > > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or > devil) in > > > everybody... > > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply > are > > listed > > > on the right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under > > Archives > > > by Year, Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > Behalf Of greychildren > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost > grown > > up..lol > > > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire > mouth > > and > > > pink convict > > > mated and had off springs,, well they guys are > almost > > grown > > > up.. and yes i > > > know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids > but > > this was > > > and accident. > > > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black > dot > > and > > > some stripes. > > > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also > I'm > > > willing to let go of > > > some of these guys. > > > > > > enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ>.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ><((((ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ> > > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ. > , > > > .ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that > > is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC > > of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> > > i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ<ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ((((><ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬ ﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ. > > > , > > > .ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ..<ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ((((><ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page.ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts > > at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able > > to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ > ﾃδｯﾃつｾﾃ｢竄ｬﾅ｡ﾃδｯﾃつｿﾃつｽ AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾃ�窶堙つ� ﾃ�窶堙つ� ﾃ�窶堙つ� > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ>.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ><((((ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ> > > > ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ. > , > > > .ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ<ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ((((><ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ. > > , > .ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ..<ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｺ((((><ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｴﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｯ`ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｷ.ﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸﾃδｯﾃつｽﾃつｸ. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.ﾃ�窶堙つ� > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ﾃ�窶堙つ� ﾃ�窶堙つ� AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾂ� ﾂ� ﾂ� > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.><((((ﾂｺ>.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ><((((ﾂｺ> > ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. , .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..><((((ﾂｺ> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ﾂｺ((((><.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. > , .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.ﾂ� > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ﾂ� ﾂ� AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48217	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Guppy fry missing it's tailfins

I still have about half a dozen guppy fry in my tank with the goldfish, cause the aquarium says they're still to small to bring in for trade. So i have to grow them out a bit before i can take them in.   The point of this message is not really to seek advice. It's really more informative.   But i noticed as i was looking into the tank last night after feeding them, that one of the fry's tail fins are completely missing. So it makes me wonder, Is it worth euthanizing it. Will it impact on it's survival. And how is it actually managing to swim at all. Cause it seems to have very little problem in doing so.   Lisa   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48218	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Re: Guppy fry missing it's tailfins

Is it missing as in another fish nibble on the fin or is it an obvious birth defect? If it was nibble down and not eaten down all the way to the peduncle, the fin can grow back but it would be best to separate the fish so it is not continually harassed. If it's a birth defect, then you have to decide if you want to keep it or cull it. I wouldn't sell it or trade it in to your LFS. If it's a birth defect, it probably has learned to rely on it's other fins for movement but it is not going to be as fast as the other fish when it comes time for feeding so you'll have to take measures to make sure it is getting food. It's not much different than taking care of another pet or child with special needs. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Guppy fry missing it's tailfins I still have about half a dozen guppy fry in my tank with the goldfish, cause the aquarium says they're still to small to bring in for trade. So i have to grow them out a bit before i can take them in.   The point of this message is not really to seek advice. It's really more informative.   But i noticed as i was looking into the tank last night after feeding them, that one of the fry's tail fins are completely missing. So it makes me wonder, Is it worth euthanizing it. Will it impact on it's survival. And how is it actually managing to swim at all. Cause it seems to have very little problem in doing so.   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48219	From: greychildren	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

but Lenny aren't convicts and fire mouth booth amazon species? So in theory they have could have mated before? Does Darwinism law states that species evolve? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bill said: "How do ya think we got so many different species to begin > with?" > > Intelligent Design (aka God... or Mother Nature for folks who do not believe > in God)... BUT not by man-made design or accident. It's not "nature" when > it happens in an aquarium. These two fish would probably never interact and > almost certainly not inter-breed in nature. But in nature, when it does > happen, then it was due to the Intelligent Design and if/when a new species > develops due to it happening naturally, then that is OK with me but not when > it's caused by man in an aquarium. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hi greychildren! >   > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". > > How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't reproach > yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking about that > "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep > them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be > interested in photo's of the results. > > ol'bill------just passing through > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM Good post Lenny; The problem is > > i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > > Â > > Â > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. > > Â > > Â > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i > > wonder why? > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish > > owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea > > for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > *enthusiast* so it's > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the > > downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > > around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to > > cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells > > these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line > > for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal > > clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, > > nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is > > a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics > > that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, > > actually being a bunch of mutts. > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > > whether it's a dog > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American > > Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > > it's a mutt... > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types > > of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand > > nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass > > breeders (not > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in > > order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or > > "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > > complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which > > is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish > > out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > > (killed) because their > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking > > for. > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like > > growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body > > parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people > > collect these mutant fish. > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink > > convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > > up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this > > was and accident. > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go > > of some of these guys. > > > > enjoy! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48220	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

http://www.rattlesnake.com/notions/evolution.html Darwin's Five Laws are: 1. Evolution as such This is the understanding that the world is not constant, nor recently created, nor cycling, but is changing; and that the types of entities that live on it also change. This contradicts the `common sense' notion, prevalent in Western society since the ancient Greeks, that different animals and plants each had its own `essence' and, as a consequence, could not change from one kind to another any more than a triangle could change to a square. You only had to look at a cat and a dog and ask how one could change into the other. Nowadays, we do not think of a cat changing into a dog, but ask about a common ancestor of both, from a time long before cats and dogs appeared. Common descent This is the understanding that every group of living entities that we know of on this planet descended from a common ancestor. Common descent occurs because one lineage would, willy-nilly, be a little more prolific than another, and would thereby wipe out the other. So only one survives. (Prions are an exception. These are proteins of a particular shape that catalyze other proteins to take on the same shape. Prions are not life in the usual sense of the word although they are self-replicating. Similarly, no one thinks of an economy as living in the usual sense of the word, even though an economy can reproduce it itself, too.) Rather than ask how a cat could change into a dog, we ask how a previous ancestor of both could give birth to an animal that is slightly more suited to the wolf way of making a living than to the feline profession. (Ecologists call plants' and animals' ways of surviving and reproducing in the world their `niches'. These are what we humans call our `professions'.) The answer is straight forward, one animal's blue prints, what some people in the latter 19th century called its germ plasm, and what modern people call its DNA, varied one from another. That change enabled an adult who was born with that variation to live more like a wolf or modern dog than its parents. This understanding, by the way, answers the age-old question, `which came first, the chicken or the egg?' The egg came first, because it contains the part that changed. The egg was laid by a non- or pre-chicken entity; the egg grew up to be a chicken. Only if you think that adult animals and plants can change their nature, and pass on that change to their children, will you think that perhaps the chicken came first. This latter form of change is called Lamarckianism. Human culture is invented by grown people and passed on by parents to their children. It is Lamarckian. But the looks and actions of animals, at least those without culture of their own, are passed on genetically. A parent's action does not influence the looks and actions of the child. Only changes in the egg change the child. At the time Darwin wrote, many evolutionists still thought of animals and plants as being like humans. They asked whether an adult proto-giraffe could stretch its neck to reach higher leaves, and pass on a longer neck to its children, much as human parents pass on a language to their children. 2. Multiplication of species This is the understanding that species either split into or bud off other species, often through the geographical isolation of a founder species. Because different ecological niches provide different ways for an animal or plant to live — provide different `professions' — and because blueprints do not copy perfectly, different plants and come to fill different niches, with different shapes and behaviors. 3. Gradualism This is the understanding that changes take place through the gradual change of population rather than the sudden production of new individuals. `Gradual' is a relative word. In discussions of `punctuated equilibria', I have heard people talk of one species replacing another in the `blink of an eye'. What they meant was a time period that is many many times as long as written human history. The `blink' might last 100,000 years. In human terms, this is a long time. But in geological terms, 100,000 years is short. Hence the use of the phrase. But to humans, a change over 100,000, or over merely 10,000 years, seems gradual. Put another way, gradualists claim that it is unlikely that starting tomorrow at 9 am, all humans born would possess green skins and lay large, hard shelled eggs. 4. Natural selection This is the understanding that individuals in every generation are different from one another, or, at least some of them are. In every generation some individuals survive and reproduce better than others. Their genes multiply. This is the key idea: natural reproduction is not perfect. People make considerable efforts to ensure that human copies are perfect. Inexact copying indicates a failure of the scribe or bug in the program. In natural reproduction, children may be similar to their parent if they bud from that one parent and if no stray cosmic ray changes their DNA and no DNA enters their cell from another. More sophisticated plants and animals have two parents. These are species with sexual reproduction. In this circumstance, children come from mixtures of the two parents' genetic material. This mixing induces variation among the children. Some of those children will do a better job at one or other niche open to it, and consequently will be more likely to survive and propagate whatever enables it to survive and propagate better. The environment in which plants and animals reproduce is defined by the world around each plant or animal: and part of that world consists of other entities of the same type. Put another way, plants and animals must survive and reproduce in a world with others of their own type. The others will be the same species, with similar skills and talents. This means that selection occurs within a species even when the rest of the environment does not change. (Incidentally, when characteristics like perceived health influence sexual choice, the process is called `sexual selection'.) Increased intelligence sometimes increases survival and reproduction. David Brin suggested this in 1982 2. Doubtless, others enjoyed the same insight earlier. For example, a female peahen will have more healthy offspring (probabilistically speaking) if she is able to identify a peacock that is more healthy than its peers. This task requires more intelligence than not being able to make the identification. A side effect of this process is that some lineages should gain certain features, such as intelligence, even without changes in the non-lineage part of the environment. Not all lineages will gain these, since alternative ways to survive and reproduce also exist. But some lineages will. This means that if the dinosaurs had survived, we humans might not exist. Instead dinosaur-descended beings might exist in our stead and these beings might also communicate symbolically, as we humans do in language. Interestingly, Ernst Mayr 3, among others, does not accept this line of reasoning, and therefore argues that high level intelligence is a happenstance rather than an outcome that may well occur on any living world on which complex life survives for long enough. Well, to be more precise, I think Mayr does accept this reasoning, but in his writing he focuses primarily on a different argument, that involving `purpose'. Evolution lacks purpose, but many people think otherwise, either because humans act according to purposes, or because their beliefs suggest it. The requirement for lengthy survival poses barriers. As Peter Douglas Ward and Donald Brownlee point out 4, planets endure catastrophes that are frequent over the eons. A stable sun, like ours, grows brighter as it ages. The inward side of a solar system's `habitable zone' moves outwards. This makes a `runaway greenhouse' as on Venus more likely. If the planet starts out closer to the inward side of its habitable zone than earth, the planet may die before complex life has time to evolve. Or microbes may consume so much carbon dioxide and other `greenhouse' gases that rather than overheat, the planet may freeze. The freeze may kill every living being on it before volcanic eruptions increase the supply of greenhouse gases which warm the planet. Or major volcanic eruptions may poison the land and sea, or asteroids may strike. As a practical matter, complex life may be rare, even if simple life is common. -----Original Message----- From: greychildren <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 6:32 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol but Lenny aren't convicts and fire mouth booth amazon species? So in theory they have could have mated before? Does Darwinism law states that species evolve? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bill said: "How do ya think we got so many different species to begin > with?" > > Intelligent Design (aka God... or Mother Nature for folks who do not believe > in God)... BUT not by man-made design or accident. It's not "nature" when > it happens in an aquarium. These two fish would probably never interact and > almost certainly not inter-breed in nature. But in nature, when it does > happen, then it was due to the Intelligent Design and if/when a new species > develops due to it happening naturally, then that is OK with me but not when > it's caused by man in an aquarium. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hi greychildren! >   > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". > > How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't reproach > yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking about that > "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep > them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be > interested in photo's of the results. > > ol'bill------just passing through > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM Good post Lenny; The problem is > > i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > > Â > > Â > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. > > Â > > Â > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i > > wonder why? > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish > > owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea > > for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > *enthusiast* so it's > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the > > downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > > around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to > > cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells > > these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line > > for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal > > clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, > > nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is > > a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics > > that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, > > actually being a bunch of mutts. > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > > whether it's a dog > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American > > Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > > it's a mutt... > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types > > of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand > > nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass > > breeders (not > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in > > order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or > > "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > > complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which > > is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish > > out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > > (killed) because their > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking > > for. > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like > > growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body > > parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people > > collect these mutant fish. > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink > > convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > > up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this > > was and accident. > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go > > of some of these guys. > > > > enjoy! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48221	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/28/2010
Subject: Lois MacGeachey

I know that there are a few people on this list who know Russ and Lois MacGeachey. An e-mail came in Wednesday with the sad news that Russ MacGeachey's wife Lois had passed. Unfortunately, I am just getting to this e-mail now due to a downed server that I worked on for 26 hours starting Wednesday night, and not getting home until after 10 PM on Thursday. Here is a link to her obituary: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/telegram/obituary.aspx?n=lois-m-macgeachey- grout&pid=143150198 http://tinyurl.com/38s8b8m I do not have an e-mail address for Russ, as I don't believe he has an e-mail account, but I do have an address/phone for him. If you would like to have it to send your condolences, please contact me off list. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48222	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

First, let me correct you that it's NOT "Darwinism law" but instead most of his works are *theories* including what is sometimes called "Darwin's Law Of Evolution" when it's really only an NOW unproven theory of evolution. More on my thoughts about this debate below. Back to the fish... Well, that's the thing about fish, and especially including cichlids. Even though they live in the same ecosystem and in close proximity and many cichlids and other species are capable of inter-breeding, they have resisted doing so in nature for millions of years. It happens more frequently in captivity and this may be due to a survivalist mechanism kicking in. Even in the African Rift Lakes, where hundreds or thousands of species live in the same lake(s), in close proximity, and many are either from the same Genus (OR if they are currently listed in separate Genera, they have still been known to inter-breed in captivity, meaning maybe they probably should be lumped into the same Genus), but in nature, they have kept themselves segregated into their own little microcosms of the overall ecology of the Rift Lake where they reside and have remained separate and distinct species instead of inter-breeding over and over for the past million years until there was just one BIG gray cichlid species. In all of nature, the same thing happens with many fish species that are capable of inter-breeding, as has been seen in captivity, but while in nature, they self-segregate and breed only within their species. I think the above would fall into Darwin's "On The Origin Of Species" theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species Of course, remember that much of Darwin's works and many of his theories have been proven wrong by modern science, particularly DNA, and even Darwin admitted that many of his theories were wrong prior to his death... but for some reason many of them are still being taught in schools today, as if they were proven facts or "laws of science" instead of only being theories, without warning the kids that many of these theories have been proven wrong. Most kids learn about the topic of "Evolution" but they are never taught that the real topic would be "The THEORY of Evolution". This is part of the problem where many public schools in America work so hard to keep Intelligent Design (aka God) out of the schools in that they would rather teach *other* unfounded or proven-wrong theories instead. There is a growing movement to bring the teaching of the *theory* (to some) of Intelligent Design along side of teaching the theory of evolution so kids can learn both sides of the debate.... but back to fish. The same can be said for something as simple as the schooling of fish. In nature, sometimes HUGE schools of fish will be made up of the same species and a sole interloper would be shunned or possibly even killed off by the main school or a predator since that one fish would stand out from the rest, but in our aquariums, a small school of one species may readily accept or tolerate a sole specimen of another species into it's school... possibly so the school appears bigger to any predators, even though none may be present... but their survival instincts have taught them to form large schools, possibly to appear to be a larger fish? OK... enough for now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol but Lenny aren't convicts and fire mouth booth amazon species? So in theory they have could have mated before? Does Darwinism law states that species evolve? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bill said: "How do ya think we got so many different species to begin > with?" > > Intelligent Design (aka God... or Mother Nature for folks who do not > believe in God)... BUT not by man-made design or accident. It's not > "nature" when it happens in an aquarium. These two fish would > probably never interact and almost certainly not inter-breed in > nature. But in nature, when it does happen, then it was due to the > Intelligent Design and if/when a new species develops due to it > happening naturally, then that is OK with me but not when it's caused by man in an aquarium. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hi greychildren! >   > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". > > How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't > reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking > about that "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if > you can, keep them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid > nuts would be interested in photo's of the results. > > ol'bill------just passing through > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM Good post Lenny; The problem > > is i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > > Â > > Â > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. > > Â > > Â > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator > > yet..i wonder why? > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish > > owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good > > idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > *enthusiast* so it's > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the > > downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > > around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to > > cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells > > these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the > > line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal > > clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered > > animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what > > they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting > > hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought > > would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > > whether it's a dog > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American > > Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > > it's a mutt... > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different > > types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not > > understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists > > with some mass breeders (not > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, > > in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities > > or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > > complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid > > which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant > > looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the > > hatch is culled > > (killed) because their > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking > > for. > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like > > growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing > > body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, > > people collect these mutant fish. > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink > > convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > > up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but > > this was and accident. > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let > > go of some of these guys. > > > > enjoy!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48223	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Personally, I think the "Laws" word is too often misused since there is still SO MUCH theory and/or speculation involved in his writings... many of the theories which Darwin has admitted to be wrong and others actually proven wrong. DNA proves this to be... but many modern scientists do not want to use DNA to outright and step-by-step prove Darwin to be wrong as many scientists are atheists and to prove Darwin is wrong would be opening the door even further for Intelligent Design to be taught in schools and "God forbid, they can't allow that!", well, maybe they wouldn't say "God forbid"... LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol http://www.rattlesnake.com/notions/evolution.html Darwin's Five Laws are: 1. Evolution as such This is the understanding that the world is not constant, nor recently created, nor cycling, but is changing; and that the types of entities that live on it also change. This contradicts the `common sense' notion, prevalent in Western society since the ancient Greeks, that different animals and plants each had its own `essence' and, as a consequence, could not change from one kind to another any more than a triangle could change to a square. You only had to look at a cat and a dog and ask how one could change into the other. Nowadays, we do not think of a cat changing into a dog, but ask about a common ancestor of both, from a time long before cats and dogs appeared. Common descent This is the understanding that every group of living entities that we know of on this planet descended from a common ancestor. Common descent occurs because one lineage would, willy-nilly, be a little more prolific than another, and would thereby wipe out the other. So only one survives. (Prions are an exception. These are proteins of a particular shape that catalyze other proteins to take on the same shape. Prions are not life in the usual sense of the word although they are self-replicating. Similarly, no one thinks of an economy as living in the usual sense of the word, even though an economy can reproduce it itself, too.) Rather than ask how a cat could change into a dog, we ask how a previous ancestor of both could give birth to an animal that is slightly more suited to the wolf way of making a living than to the feline profession. (Ecologists call plants' and animals' ways of surviving and reproducing in the world their `niches'. These are what we humans call our `professions'.) The answer is straight forward, one animal's blue prints, what some people in the latter 19th century called its germ plasm, and what modern people call its DNA, varied one from another. That change enabled an adult who was born with that variation to live more like a wolf or modern dog than its parents. This understanding, by the way, answers the age-old question, `which came first, the chicken or the egg?' The egg came first, because it contains the part that changed. The egg was laid by a non- or pre-chicken entity; the egg grew up to be a chicken. Only if you think that adult animals and plants can change their nature, and pass on that change to their children, will you think that perhaps the chicken came first. This latter form of change is called Lamarckianism. Human culture is invented by grown people and passed on by parents to their children. It is Lamarckian. But the looks and actions of animals, at least those without culture of their own, are passed on genetically. A parent's action does not influence the looks and actions of the child. Only changes in the egg change the child. At the time Darwin wrote, many evolutionists still thought of animals and plants as being like humans. They asked whether an adult proto-giraffe could stretch its neck to reach higher leaves, and pass on a longer neck to its children, much as human parents pass on a language to their children. 2. Multiplication of species This is the understanding that species either split into or bud off other species, often through the geographical isolation of a founder species. Because different ecological niches provide different ways for an animal or plant to live — provide different `professions' — and because blueprints do not copy perfectly, different plants and come to fill different niches, with different shapes and behaviors. 3. Gradualism This is the understanding that changes take place through the gradual change of population rather than the sudden production of new individuals. `Gradual' is a relative word. In discussions of `punctuated equilibria', I have heard people talk of one species replacing another in the `blink of an eye'. What they meant was a time period that is many many times as long as written human history. The `blink' might last 100,000 years. In human terms, this is a long time. But in geological terms, 100,000 years is short. Hence the use of the phrase. But to humans, a change over 100,000, or over merely 10,000 years, seems gradual. Put another way, gradualists claim that it is unlikely that starting tomorrow at 9 am, all humans born would possess green skins and lay large, hard shelled eggs. 4. Natural selection This is the understanding that individuals in every generation are different from one another, or, at least some of them are. In every generation some individuals survive and reproduce better than others. Their genes multiply. This is the key idea: natural reproduction is not perfect. People make considerable efforts to ensure that human copies are perfect. Inexact copying indicates a failure of the scribe or bug in the program. In natural reproduction, children may be similar to their parent if they bud from that one parent and if no stray cosmic ray changes their DNA and no DNA enters their cell from another. More sophisticated plants and animals have two parents. These are species with sexual reproduction. In this circumstance, children come from mixtures of the two parents' genetic material. This mixing induces variation among the children. Some of those children will do a better job at one or other niche open to it, and consequently will be more likely to survive and propagate whatever enables it to survive and propagate better. The environment in which plants and animals reproduce is defined by the world around each plant or animal: and part of that world consists of other entities of the same type. Put another way, plants and animals must survive and reproduce in a world with others of their own type. The others will be the same species, with similar skills and talents. This means that selection occurs within a species even when the rest of the environment does not change. (Incidentally, when characteristics like perceived health influence sexual choice, the process is called `sexual selection'.) Increased intelligence sometimes increases survival and reproduction. David Brin suggested this in 1982 2. Doubtless, others enjoyed the same insight earlier. For example, a female peahen will have more healthy offspring (probabilistically speaking) if she is able to identify a peacock that is more healthy than its peers. This task requires more intelligence than not being able to make the identification. A side effect of this process is that some lineages should gain certain features, such as intelligence, even without changes in the non-lineage part of the environment. Not all lineages will gain these, since alternative ways to survive and reproduce also exist. But some lineages will. This means that if the dinosaurs had survived, we humans might not exist. Instead dinosaur-descended beings might exist in our stead and these beings might also communicate symbolically, as we humans do in language. Interestingly, Ernst Mayr 3, among others, does not accept this line of reasoning, and therefore argues that high level intelligence is a happenstance rather than an outcome that may well occur on any living world on which complex life survives for long enough. Well, to be more precise, I think Mayr does accept this reasoning, but in his writing he focuses primarily on a different argument, that involving `purpose'. Evolution lacks purpose, but many people think otherwise, either because humans act according to purposes, or because their beliefs suggest it. The requirement for lengthy survival poses barriers. As Peter Douglas Ward and Donald Brownlee point out 4, planets endure catastrophes that are frequent over the eons. A stable sun, like ours, grows brighter as it ages. The inward side of a solar system's `habitable zone' moves outwards. This makes a `runaway greenhouse' as on Venus more likely. If the planet starts out closer to the inward side of its habitable zone than earth, the planet may die before complex life has time to evolve. Or microbes may consume so much carbon dioxide and other `greenhouse' gases that rather than overheat, the planet may freeze. The freeze may kill every living being on it before volcanic eruptions increase the supply of greenhouse gases which warm the planet. Or major volcanic eruptions may poison the land and sea, or asteroids may strike. As a practical matter, complex life may be rare, even if simple life is common. -----Original Message----- From: greychildren <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 6:32 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol but Lenny aren't convicts and fire mouth booth amazon species? So in theory they have could have mated before? Does Darwinism law states that species evolve? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bill said: "How do ya think we got so many different species to begin > with?" > > Intelligent Design (aka God... or Mother Nature for folks who do not believe > in God)... BUT not by man-made design or accident. It's not "nature" when > it happens in an aquarium. These two fish would probably never interact and > almost certainly not inter-breed in nature. But in nature, when it does > happen, then it was due to the Intelligent Design and if/when a new species > develops due to it happening naturally, then that is OK with me but not when > it's caused by man in an aquarium. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hi greychildren! >   > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". > > How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't reproach > yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking about that > "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep > them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be > interested in photo's of the results. > > ol'bill------just passing through > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM Good post Lenny; The problem is > > i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > >  > >  > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. > >  > >  > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i > > wonder why? > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish > > owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea > > for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > *enthusiast* so it's > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the > > downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > > around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to > > cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells > > these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line > > for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal > > clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, > > nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is > > a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics > > that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, > > actually being a bunch of mutts. > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > > whether it's a dog > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American > > Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > > it's a mutt... > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types > > of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand > > nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass > > breeders (not > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in > > order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or > > "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > > complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which > > is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish > > out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > > (killed) because their > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking > > for. > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like > > growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body > > parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people > > collect these mutant fish. > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink > > convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > > up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this > > was and accident. > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go > > of some of these guys. > > > > enjoy!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48224	From: caroline cormier	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: green water

any ideas about greenish water...    caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48225	From: harry perry	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: green water/Caroline

Sounds like an algae bloom. It won't hurt your fish. I'm sure Lenny's blog will have something or you can simple go to the group site/Messages/Search and type in algae bloom. We will need more information in order to be able to help. Tank size, inhabitants, water parameters, lighting. etc etc. Harry --- On Sat, 5/29/10, caroline cormier <waves022@...> wrote: From: caroline cormier <waves022@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] green water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 29, 2010, 12:37 PM   any ideas about greenish water...    caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48226	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Lenny, A fairly recent article in _Copiea_ (and I believe if we do a search you will find a complete reference to it in the forum archives) showed that hybridization of similar species whose territories overlap, does happen with some frequency. There is not a large population of these hybrids existing, but they are present. It is thought that with enough interbreeding of the hybrids, a new species may develop \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol First, let me correct you that it's NOT "Darwinism law" but instead most of his works are *theories* including what is sometimes called "Darwin's Law Of Evolution" when it's really only an NOW unproven theory of evolution. More on my thoughts about this debate below. Back to the fish... Well, that's the thing about fish, and especially including cichlids. Even though they live in the same ecosystem and in close proximity and many cichlids and other species are capable of inter-breeding, they have resisted doing so in nature for millions of years. It happens more frequently in captivity and this may be due to a survivalist mechanism kicking in. Even in the African Rift Lakes, where hundreds or thousands of species live in the same lake(s), in close proximity, and many are either from the same Genus (OR if they are currently listed in separate Genera, they have still been known to inter-breed in captivity, meaning maybe they probably should be lumped into the same Genus), but in nature, they have kept themselves segregated into their own little microcosms of the overall ecology of the Rift Lake where they reside and have remained separate and distinct species instead of inter-breeding over and over for the past million years until there was just one BIG gray cichlid species. In all of nature, the same thing happens with many fish species that are capable of inter-breeding, as has been seen in captivity, but while in nature, they self-segregate and breed only within their species. I think the above would fall into Darwin's "On The Origin Of Species" theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species Of course, remember that much of Darwin's works and many of his theories have been proven wrong by modern science, particularly DNA, and even Darwin admitted that many of his theories were wrong prior to his death... but for some reason many of them are still being taught in schools today, as if they were proven facts or "laws of science" instead of only being theories, without warning the kids that many of these theories have been proven wrong. Most kids learn about the topic of "Evolution" but they are never taught that the real topic would be "The THEORY of Evolution". This is part of the problem where many public schools in America work so hard to keep Intelligent Design (aka God) out of the schools in that they would rather teach *other* unfounded or proven-wrong theories instead. There is a growing movement to bring the teaching of the *theory* (to some) of Intelligent Design along side of teaching the theory of evolution so kids can learn both sides of the debate.... but back to fish. The same can be said for something as simple as the schooling of fish. In nature, sometimes HUGE schools of fish will be made up of the same species and a sole interloper would be shunned or possibly even killed off by the main school or a predator since that one fish would stand out from the rest, but in our aquariums, a small school of one species may readily accept or tolerate a sole specimen of another species into it's school... possibly so the school appears bigger to any predators, even though none may be present... but their survival instincts have taught them to form large schools, possibly to appear to be a larger fish? OK... enough for now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol but Lenny aren't convicts and fire mouth booth amazon species? So in theory they have could have mated before? Does Darwinism law states that species evolve? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bill said: "How do ya think we got so many different species to begin > with?" > > Intelligent Design (aka God... or Mother Nature for folks who do not > believe in God)... BUT not by man-made design or accident. It's not > "nature" when it happens in an aquarium. These two fish would > probably never interact and almost certainly not inter-breed in > nature. But in nature, when it does happen, then it was due to the > Intelligent Design and if/when a new species develops due to it > happening naturally, then that is OK with me but not when it's caused by man in an aquarium. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hi greychildren! >   > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". > > How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't > reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking > about that "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if > you can, keep them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid > nuts would be interested in photo's of the results. > > ol'bill------just passing through > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM Good post Lenny; The problem > > is i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > >  > >  > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. > >  > >  > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator > > yet..i wonder why? > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish > > owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good > > idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > *enthusiast* so it's > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the > > downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > > around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to > > cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells > > these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the > > line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal > > clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered > > animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what > > they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting > > hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought > > would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > > whether it's a dog > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American > > Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > > it's a mutt... > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different > > types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not > > understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists > > with some mass breeders (not > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, > > in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities > > or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > > complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid > > which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant > > looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the > > hatch is culled > > (killed) because their > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking > > for. > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like > > growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing > > body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, > > people collect these mutant fish. > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink > > convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > > up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but > > this was and accident. > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let > > go of some of these guys. > > > > enjoy! ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

Lenny, Most scientists, even those studying evolution, are not atheists. The real problem with DNA is that it is so similar between species, with only a few genes, in some cases, seeming to be the differentiator between species. This is one of the reasons why mapping gnomes is such big news, and something many scientists are looking to get funding for. You may have seen advertisements for DNA testing for your dog to determine what breed it is or what breeds may have gone into the mix. Unfortunately, it is not very accurate at this time, as only a few breeds are consistently recognized correctly. If you are an owner of a mixed breed, good luck in getting any two companies to come up with the same mix for your dog. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol Personally, I think the "Laws" word is too often misused since there is still SO MUCH theory and/or speculation involved in his writings... many of the theories which Darwin has admitted to be wrong and others actually proven wrong. DNA proves this to be... but many modern scientists do not want to use DNA to outright and step-by-step prove Darwin to be wrong as many scientists are atheists and to prove Darwin is wrong would be opening the door even further for Intelligent Design to be taught in schools and "God forbid, they can't allow that!", well, maybe they wouldn't say "God forbid"... LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol http://www.rattlesnake.com/notions/evolution.html Darwin's Five Laws are: 1. Evolution as such This is the understanding that the world is not constant, nor recently created, nor cycling, but is changing; and that the types of entities that live on it also change. This contradicts the `common sense' notion, prevalent in Western society since the ancient Greeks, that different animals and plants each had its own `essence' and, as a consequence, could not change from one kind to another any more than a triangle could change to a square. You only had to look at a cat and a dog and ask how one could change into the other. Nowadays, we do not think of a cat changing into a dog, but ask about a common ancestor of both, from a time long before cats and dogs appeared. Common descent This is the understanding that every group of living entities that we know of on this planet descended from a common ancestor. Common descent occurs because one lineage would, willy-nilly, be a little more prolific than another, and would thereby wipe out the other. So only one survives. (Prions are an exception. These are proteins of a particular shape that catalyze other proteins to take on the same shape. Prions are not life in the usual sense of the word although they are self-replicating. Similarly, no one thinks of an economy as living in the usual sense of the word, even though an economy can reproduce it itself, too.) Rather than ask how a cat could change into a dog, we ask how a previous ancestor of both could give birth to an animal that is slightly more suited to the wolf way of making a living than to the feline profession. (Ecologists call plants' and animals' ways of surviving and reproducing in the world their `niches'. These are what we humans call our `professions'.) The answer is straight forward, one animal's blue prints, what some people in the latter 19th century called its germ plasm, and what modern people call its DNA, varied one from another. That change enabled an adult who was born with that variation to live more like a wolf or modern dog than its parents. This understanding, by the way, answers the age-old question, `which came first, the chicken or the egg?' The egg came first, because it contains the part that changed. The egg was laid by a non- or pre-chicken entity; the egg grew up to be a chicken. Only if you think that adult animals and plants can change their nature, and pass on that change to their children, will you think that perhaps the chicken came first. This latter form of change is called Lamarckianism. Human culture is invented by grown people and passed on by parents to their children. It is Lamarckian. But the looks and actions of animals, at least those without culture of their own, are passed on genetically. A parent's action does not influence the looks and actions of the child. Only changes in the egg change the child. At the time Darwin wrote, many evolutionists still thought of animals and plants as being like humans. They asked whether an adult proto-giraffe could stretch its neck to reach higher leaves, and pass on a longer neck to its children, much as human parents pass on a language to their children. 2. Multiplication of species This is the understanding that species either split into or bud off other species, often through the geographical isolation of a founder species. Because different ecological niches provide different ways for an animal or plant to live — provide different `professions' — and because blueprints do not copy perfectly, different plants and come to fill different niches, with different shapes and behaviors. 3. Gradualism This is the understanding that changes take place through the gradual change of population rather than the sudden production of new individuals. `Gradual' is a relative word. In discussions of `punctuated equilibria', I have heard people talk of one species replacing another in the `blink of an eye'. What they meant was a time period that is many many times as long as written human history. The `blink' might last 100,000 years. In human terms, this is a long time. But in geological terms, 100,000 years is short. Hence the use of the phrase. But to humans, a change over 100,000, or over merely 10,000 years, seems gradual. Put another way, gradualists claim that it is unlikely that starting tomorrow at 9 am, all humans born would possess green skins and lay large, hard shelled eggs. 4. Natural selection This is the understanding that individuals in every generation are different from one another, or, at least some of them are. In every generation some individuals survive and reproduce better than others. Their genes multiply. This is the key idea: natural reproduction is not perfect. People make considerable efforts to ensure that human copies are perfect. Inexact copying indicates a failure of the scribe or bug in the program. In natural reproduction, children may be similar to their parent if they bud from that one parent and if no stray cosmic ray changes their DNA and no DNA enters their cell from another. More sophisticated plants and animals have two parents. These are species with sexual reproduction. In this circumstance, children come from mixtures of the two parents' genetic material. This mixing induces variation among the children. Some of those children will do a better job at one or other niche open to it, and consequently will be more likely to survive and propagate whatever enables it to survive and propagate better. The environment in which plants and animals reproduce is defined by the world around each plant or animal: and part of that world consists of other entities of the same type. Put another way, plants and animals must survive and reproduce in a world with others of their own type. The others will be the same species, with similar skills and talents. This means that selection occurs within a species even when the rest of the environment does not change. (Incidentally, when characteristics like perceived health influence sexual choice, the process is called `sexual selection'.) Increased intelligence sometimes increases survival and reproduction. David Brin suggested this in 1982 2. Doubtless, others enjoyed the same insight earlier. For example, a female peahen will have more healthy offspring (probabilistically speaking) if she is able to identify a peacock that is more healthy than its peers. This task requires more intelligence than not being able to make the identification. A side effect of this process is that some lineages should gain certain features, such as intelligence, even without changes in the non-lineage part of the environment. Not all lineages will gain these, since alternative ways to survive and reproduce also exist. But some lineages will. This means that if the dinosaurs had survived, we humans might not exist. Instead dinosaur-descended beings might exist in our stead and these beings might also communicate symbolically, as we humans do in language. Interestingly, Ernst Mayr 3, among others, does not accept this line of reasoning, and therefore argues that high level intelligence is a happenstance rather than an outcome that may well occur on any living world on which complex life survives for long enough. Well, to be more precise, I think Mayr does accept this reasoning, but in his writing he focuses primarily on a different argument, that involving `purpose'. Evolution lacks purpose, but many people think otherwise, either because humans act according to purposes, or because their beliefs suggest it. The requirement for lengthy survival poses barriers. As Peter Douglas Ward and Donald Brownlee point out 4, planets endure catastrophes that are frequent over the eons. A stable sun, like ours, grows brighter as it ages. The inward side of a solar system's `habitable zone' moves outwards. This makes a `runaway greenhouse' as on Venus more likely. If the planet starts out closer to the inward side of its habitable zone than earth, the planet may die before complex life has time to evolve. Or microbes may consume so much carbon dioxide and other `greenhouse' gases that rather than overheat, the planet may freeze. The freeze may kill every living being on it before volcanic eruptions increase the supply of greenhouse gases which warm the planet. Or major volcanic eruptions may poison the land and sea, or asteroids may strike. As a practical matter, complex life may be rare, even if simple life is common. -----Original Message----- From: greychildren <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 6:32 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol but Lenny aren't convicts and fire mouth booth amazon species? So in theory they have could have mated before? Does Darwinism law states that species evolve? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bill said: "How do ya think we got so many different species to begin > with?" > > Intelligent Design (aka God... or Mother Nature for folks who do not believe > in God)... BUT not by man-made design or accident. It's not "nature" when > it happens in an aquarium. These two fish would probably never interact and > almost certainly not inter-breed in nature. But in nature, when it does > happen, then it was due to the Intelligent Design and if/when a new species > develops due to it happening naturally, then that is OK with me but not when > it's caused by man in an aquarium. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hi greychildren! >   > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". > > How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't reproach > yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking about that > "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if you can, keep > them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid nuts would be > interested in photo's of the results. > > ol'bill------just passing through > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM Good post Lenny; The problem is > > i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > >  > >  > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. > >  > >  > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator yet..i > > wonder why? > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish > > owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good idea > > for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > *enthusiast* so it's > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the > > downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > > around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to > > cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells > > these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the line > > for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal > > clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered animals, > > nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what they think is > > a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting hybridized genetics > > that results in any offspring, that they thought would be pure, > > actually being a bunch of mutts. > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > > whether it's a dog > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American > > Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > > it's a mutt... > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different types > > of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not understand > > nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists with some mass > > breeders (not > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, in > > order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities or > > "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > > complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid which > > is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant looking fish > > out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the hatch is culled > > (killed) because their > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking > > for. > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like > > growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing body > > parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, people > > collect these mutant fish. > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink > > convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > > up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but this > > was and accident. > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let go > > of some of these guys. > > > > enjoy!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48228	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Moving a plant from one tank to another

Okay so I've been considering moving one of my plants from my 55 gallon downstairs to my 125 gallon, the plant is huge and really doesn't fit into the 55 gallon very well. It's a bulb type plant (aponogeton ulvaceus), I was wondering if anyone had any tips for uprooting a fully grown plant and moving it to another tank with minimal disturbance to the dirt/gravel? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aponogeton_ulvaceus I have a VERY large amazon type plant taking up a huge space in my 125 gallon tank that I think is kind of ugly, so I'm considering chopping it completely and just leaving the roots under the gravel/dirt. Then planting the aponogeton ulvaceus somewhere in the back of the 125 gallon tank so that it has room to grow properly. It's a very pretty corkscrew looking plant, it just gets huge and takes up too much room for a 55 gallon tank. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48229	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium

Sheryl Crow is selling her house. At the link is the information. If you scroll down through the pictures, you'll see one of the kitchen showing an aquarium. http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/05/25/sheryl-crow-estate-for-sale/ http://tinyurl.com/29pp8xj Maybe Amber would be interested for several; reasons. The 10,000 sq. ft. house would give her plenty of room for aquaria, the 154 acres would allow her to build a fish house, and finally, she'll be able to find out what it is like to only have shortened days for winter and longer days for summer instead of the 24 hours of night in the winter and 24 hours of day during the summer. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48230	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium

Just as soon as I win Alaska lotto... now I gotta buy a ticket ;) LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Sheryl Crow is selling her house. At the link is the information. If you > scroll down through the pictures, you'll see one of the kitchen showing an > aquarium. > > http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/05/25/sheryl-crow-estate-for-sale/ > http://tinyurl.com/29pp8xj > > Maybe Amber would be interested for several; reasons. The 10,000 sq. ft. > house would give her plenty of room for aquaria, the 154 acres would allow > her to build a fish house, and finally, she'll be able to find out what it > is like to only have shortened days for winter and longer days for summer > instead of the 24 hours of night in the winter and 24 hours of day during > the summer. > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48231	From: jaiko	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol

exactly ty steve --- On Sat, 5/29/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 29, 2010, 2:36 PM   Lenny, A fairly recent article in _Copiea_ (and I believe if we do a search you will find a complete reference to it in the forum archives) showed that hybridization of similar species whose territories overlap, does happen with some frequency. There is not a large population of these hybrids existing, but they are present. It is thought that with enough interbreeding of the hybrids, a new species may develop \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol First, let me correct you that it's NOT "Darwinism law" but instead most of his works are *theories* including what is sometimes called "Darwin's Law Of Evolution" when it's really only an NOW unproven theory of evolution. More on my thoughts about this debate below. Back to the fish... Well, that's the thing about fish, and especially including cichlids. Even though they live in the same ecosystem and in close proximity and many cichlids and other species are capable of inter-breeding, they have resisted doing so in nature for millions of years. It happens more frequently in captivity and this may be due to a survivalist mechanism kicking in. Even in the African Rift Lakes, where hundreds or thousands of species live in the same lake(s), in close proximity, and many are either from the same Genus (OR if they are currently listed in separate Genera, they have still been known to inter-breed in captivity, meaning maybe they probably should be lumped into the same Genus), but in nature, they have kept themselves segregated into their own little microcosms of the overall ecology of the Rift Lake where they reside and have remained separate and distinct species instead of inter-breeding over and over for the past million years until there was just one BIG gray cichlid species. In all of nature, the same thing happens with many fish species that are capable of inter-breeding, as has been seen in captivity, but while in nature, they self-segregate and breed only within their species. I think the above would fall into Darwin's "On The Origin Of Species" theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species Of course, remember that much of Darwin's works and many of his theories have been proven wrong by modern science, particularly DNA, and even Darwin admitted that many of his theories were wrong prior to his death... but for some reason many of them are still being taught in schools today, as if they were proven facts or "laws of science" instead of only being theories, without warning the kids that many of these theories have been proven wrong. Most kids learn about the topic of "Evolution" but they are never taught that the real topic would be "The THEORY of Evolution". This is part of the problem where many public schools in America work so hard to keep Intelligent Design (aka God) out of the schools in that they would rather teach *other* unfounded or proven-wrong theories instead. There is a growing movement to bring the teaching of the *theory* (to some) of Intelligent Design along side of teaching the theory of evolution so kids can learn both sides of the debate.... but back to fish. The same can be said for something as simple as the schooling of fish. In nature, sometimes HUGE schools of fish will be made up of the same species and a sole interloper would be shunned or possibly even killed off by the main school or a predator since that one fish would stand out from the rest, but in our aquariums, a small school of one species may readily accept or tolerate a sole specimen of another species into it's school... possibly so the school appears bigger to any predators, even though none may be present... but their survival instincts have taught them to form large schools, possibly to appear to be a larger fish? OK... enough for now. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol but Lenny aren't convicts and fire mouth booth amazon species? So in theory they have could have mated before? Does Darwinism law states that species evolve? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Bill said: "How do ya think we got so many different species to begin > with?" > > Intelligent Design (aka God... or Mother Nature for folks who do not > believe in God)... BUT not by man-made design or accident. It's not > "nature" when it happens in an aquarium. These two fish would > probably never interact and almost certainly not inter-breed in > nature. But in nature, when it does happen, then it was due to the > Intelligent Design and if/when a new species develops due to it > happening naturally, then that is OK with me but not when it's caused by man in an aquarium. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > Hi greychildren! >   > "I also believe that hybrids should not be made as you do. > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals". > > How do ya think we got so many different species to begin with? > Some advise from someone who's been doing this for awhile? > > RELAX____________enjoy the fish and have some fun and so don't > reproach yourself. Also? This might be a good time to start thinking > about that "Super" tank you've always dreamed of. Raise the fish up if > you can, keep them separated and see what develops. All of us Chiclid > nuts would be interested in photo's of the results. > > ol'bill------just passing through > > > --- On Wed, 5/26/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:15 AM Good post Lenny; The problem > > is i have too many and no space for them(what can i do with these > > guys?) i don't believe in euthanasia. > >  > >  > > I also belive that hyvrids should not be made as you do. > > but sometimes nature can not be control by us mortals. > >  > >  > > Also the pics have not been dl into the group by the moderator > > yet..i wonder why? > > > > --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 9:41 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > While it probably doesn't matter to most folks if an individual fish > > owner allows cross-breeding to happen, I DON'T think it's a good > > idea for that fish owner to distribute them. I'm not a cichlid > > *enthusiast* so it's > > probably NOT me that you will hear the most complaints from. > > > > But your offer to give or sell some to others... now that's the > > downside of hybrids... when their creators start distributing them > > around and then folks somewhere down the line allows them to > > cross-breed once again, especially if it's a breeder that then sells > > these hybrid-hybrids. It can really muck things up years down the > > line for folks that are trying to keep their fish lines pure. > > > > Unlike the AKC (American Kennel Club) and other recognized animal > > clubs around the world, which track the lineage of registered > > animals, nobody tracks the lineage of fish so a new buyer of what > > they think is a very nice looking pure bred fish ends up getting > > hybridized genetics that results in any offspring, that they thought > > would be pure, actually being a bunch of mutts. > > > > Now, that said, there's nothing wrong with a mutt... > > whether it's a dog > > (some of my best dogs over the years were GAM's --- Great American > > Mutt), cat, fish or whatever as long as the person buying it knows > > it's a mutt... > > but with fish, often times, they have no way of knowing. > > > > Personally, I'm of the mindset that there are SO MANY different > > types of fish out there, especially with cichlids, that I do not > > understand nor have a clue why the Dr. Frankenstein mindset exists > > with some mass breeders (not > > you) who do in-breeding, cross-breeding and then more in-breeding, > > in order to intentionally create some of the intentional deformities > > or "mutant fish", like fancy goldfish for example. This is also the > > complaint from most cichlid enthusiasts about the Parrot Cichlid > > which is now being mass in-bred to create a few of these mutant > > looking fish out of a hatch of hundreds and most of the rest of the > > hatch is culled > > (killed) because their > > birth defects do not match what the Dr. Frankenstein's were looking > > for. > > The same thing happens with fancy goldfish. > > > > If this type of activity was done with any other pet, with breeders > > intentionally breeding dogs or cats with bubble eyes, brain like > > growths on the tops of their heads, missing legs or other missing > > body parts, etc., people would be outraged but in the fish hobby, > > people collect these mutant fish. > > > > Maybe there's a little Dr. Frankenstein (or devil) in everybody... > > MUAHH-HA-HA-HA HA!!!! > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of greychildren > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] My Baby;s have almost grown up..lol > > > > Hey guys remember back 3 months ago wend my fire mouth and pink > > convict mated and had off springs,, well they guys are almost grown > > up.. and yes i know Lenny and others is bad to create hybrids but > > this was and accident. > > > > These guys are beautiful there pink with a black dot and some stripes. > > > > I posted the new pics i just took on them.. Also I'm willing to let > > go of some of these guys. > > > > enjoy! ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48232	From: Mary Carpenter	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber

Hi, Nancy I found www.applesnails.com helpful. I golden and dark mystery snails. Two of each. Well, one died recently, and the fish ate him. Mine have laid 4 eggs sacks (?) in the 6 months or so that I've had them. The newest one showed up after the one gold snail died. It's shell was deteriating for a while, but according to applesnails.com after the snails were done laying eggs the snail would regain some strength and the shell would basically regrow. But I've seen one wee little tiny gold snail. I got all excited. I'm just convinced there's a lot of them in the tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I am Nancy. I am in this group. I have a question. I > also > have apple snails. Do  they has certain times during > year they lay eggs? I was expecting some this spring > but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all adults. > Maybe > moving has something to do with it. If you have any > ideas, please email me. > > Thanks for being here. > Nancy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48233	From: David S	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

I haven't been online for several days and I'm sad to report the 3 fish didn't make it through the night. The smaller one died before bedtime and the other 2 were gone in the morning. I'm glad Lisa didn't name them or I woulda been more upset. I know she wouldn't put much effort in caring for them so I told her we'll get some plastic fish. Won't be as fun to watch. Thanks all, Dave > -----Original Message----- > David S > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish help > > Hello, > New member here. I've never had goldfish (won at a festival) live more than > a day or two. Now my friend Lisa won three and on the way home she bought a > ten gallon tank, gravel, plastic plants and Aqeon filter. I had some water > sitting in open jugs (only a couple gallons) and the rest was tap water. > They were doing great for over a week when she decided the tank needed > cleaned. The tank was wiped out with tap water and the gravel rinsed in a > bucket. She bought replacement filters, the water was flowing over the > bypass. I had the fish in a five gallon bucket so we changed half the water. > They seemed ok for awhile then the smallest sat on the bottom. In a couple > days they were all on the bottom hiding behind the plants. I added 8 drops > of tap water conditioner. Now I notice they look like they're covered with > fluffy white spots. Is there anything I can do for them? > Thanks, > Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48234	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/29/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish help

Sorry they didn't make it... but since you now have a 10G tank and accessories, I have a blog article for "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions", so check it out and stick to ONLY the fish on that list and they will have a much better chance of living full and healthy lives where the goldfish would not have done so in a 10G tank. There are dozens, if not hundreds of options for safely and properly stocking a 10G tank. While at my blog, also go to the "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page and you and Lisa should take one or both of the free online tutorials which will walk you through all of the basics of fish keeping. We'll still be here to answer any questions you may have but I find these two tutorials are REALLY GOOD at teaching all of the basics now that you're no longer in emergency mode. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David S Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish help I haven't been online for several days and I'm sad to report the 3 fish didn't make it through the night. The smaller one died before bedtime and the other 2 were gone in the morning. I'm glad Lisa didn't name them or I woulda been more upset. I know she wouldn't put much effort in caring for them so I told her we'll get some plastic fish. Won't be as fun to watch. Thanks all, Dave > -----Original Message----- > David S > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:00 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish help > > Hello, > New member here. I've never had goldfish (won at a festival) live more > than a day or two. Now my friend Lisa won three and on the way home > she bought a ten gallon tank, gravel, plastic plants and Aqeon filter. > I had some water sitting in open jugs (only a couple gallons) and the rest was tap water. > They were doing great for over a week when she decided the tank needed > cleaned. The tank was wiped out with tap water and the gravel rinsed > in a bucket. She bought replacement filters, the water was flowing > over the bypass. I had the fish in a five gallon bucket so we changed half the water. > They seemed ok for awhile then the smallest sat on the bottom. In a > couple days they were all on the bottom hiding behind the plants. I > added 8 drops of tap water conditioner. Now I notice they look like > they're covered with fluffy white spots. Is there anything I can do for them? > Thanks, > Dave

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48235	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber

If the shells are deteriorating then it sounds like your water may be too soft for them. You can help them out by feeding them Tums (yes the kind you eat for human "issues", they prefer the fruity flavors). I break my Tums into small chunks and scatter them around my tank, but I have a lot of snails. The calcium in the Tums will help their shells. Amber Mary Carpenter wrote: > > Hi, Nancy > I found www.applesnails.com helpful. > I golden and dark mystery snails. Two of each. Well, one died > recently, and the fish ate him. Mine have laid 4 eggs sacks (?) in the > 6 months or so that I've had them. The newest one showed up after the > one gold snail died. It's shell was deteriating for a while, but > according to applesnails.com after the snails were done laying eggs > the snail would regain some strength and the shell would basically > regrow. But I've seen one wee little tiny gold snail. I got all > excited. I'm just convinced there's a lot of them in the tank. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I am Nancy. I am in this group. I have a question. I > > also > > have apple snails. Do they has certain times during > > year they lay eggs? I was expecting some this spring > > but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all adults. > > Maybe > > moving has something to do with it. If you have any > > ideas, please email me. > > > > Thanks for being here. > > Nancy > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48236	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium

I've seen aquariums like that! One day I tried out working for a housecleaning company, and a couple of people had counter-side or under the coffeetable/ bookshelf large aquariums in their livingrooms. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium > Just as soon as I win Alaska lotto... now I gotta buy a ticket ;) LOL. > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: >> >> Sheryl Crow is selling her house. At the link is the information. If you >> scroll down through the pictures, you'll see one of the kitchen showing >> an >> aquarium. >> >> http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/05/25/sheryl-crow-estate-for-sale/ >> http://tinyurl.com/29pp8xj >> >> Maybe Amber would be interested for several; reasons. The 10,000 sq. ft. >> house would give her plenty of room for aquaria, the 154 acres would >> allow >> her to build a fish house, and finally, she'll be able to find out what >> it >> is like to only have shortened days for winter and longer days for summer >> instead of the 24 hours of night in the winter and 24 hours of day during >> the summer. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48237	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium

I hope she has a Python (with the 3' siphon tube) for vacuuming the detritus off the bottom of that tank. ;-) Where does she park her cars? I hope she doesn't leave them out in the weather all the time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium Just as soon as I win Alaska lotto... now I gotta buy a ticket ;) LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Sheryl Crow is selling her house. At the link is the information. If > you scroll down through the pictures, you'll see one of the kitchen > showing an aquarium. > > http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/05/25/sheryl-crow-estate-for- > sale/ > http://tinyurl.com/29pp8xj > > Maybe Amber would be interested for several; reasons. The 10,000 sq. ft. > house would give her plenty of room for aquaria, the 154 acres would > allow her to build a fish house, and finally, she'll be able to find > out what it is like to only have shortened days for winter and longer > days for summer instead of the 24 hours of night in the winter and 24 > hours of day during the summer. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48238	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a plant from one tank to another

I don't think there's a way to minimize disturbance, especially in a layered Walstad substrate like you have. I would start to lift the plant from the base and see where the thicker roots start to disturb the substrate and then clip them off as far away from the plant as possible, trying to NOT damage other plants roots. The reason for getting as much of the root out as possible, especially the thicker roots, is so that you do not leave too much decaying roots in your substrate. It's gonna be messy but you could turn off your filters while doing the initial plant removal work which might allow the soil cloud to not spread as much and then let it settle down for a little while afterwards and then turn the filters on to get the final cloudiness out of the water. Do filter maintenance a day or so afterwards. As far as leaving the roots from the other plant, the same rule above applies. I would remove as much of the root system as possible while minimizing the affect on other plants where the roots are intertwined. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 5:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving a plant from one tank to another Okay so I've been considering moving one of my plants from my 55 gallon downstairs to my 125 gallon, the plant is huge and really doesn't fit into the 55 gallon very well. It's a bulb type plant (aponogeton ulvaceus), I was wondering if anyone had any tips for uprooting a fully grown plant and moving it to another tank with minimal disturbance to the dirt/gravel? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aponogeton_ulvaceus I have a VERY large amazon type plant taking up a huge space in my 125 gallon tank that I think is kind of ugly, so I'm considering chopping it completely and just leaving the roots under the gravel/dirt. Then planting the aponogeton ulvaceus somewhere in the back of the 125 gallon tank so that it has room to grow properly. It's a very pretty corkscrew looking plant, it just gets huge and takes up too much room for a 55 gallon tank. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48239	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a plant from one tank to another

You know, Amber - I have tried pulling out lots of plants in different ways, and when I dig up a whole tank or a really big plant, I often get an ammonial/nitrite spike UNLESS I do a 50% water change after pulling them out. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On May 30, 2010, at 11:51 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > I don't think there's a way to minimize disturbance, especially in > a layered > Walstad substrate like you have. > > I would start to lift the plant from the base and see where the > thicker > roots start to disturb the substrate and then clip them off as far > away from > the plant as possible, trying to NOT damage other plants roots. The > reason > for getting as much of the root out as possible, especially the > thicker > roots, is so that you do not leave too much decaying roots in your > substrate. It's gonna be messy but you could turn off your filters > while > doing the initial plant removal work which might allow the soil > cloud to not > spread as much and then let it settle down for a little while > afterwards and > then turn the filters on to get the final cloudiness out of the water. > > Do filter maintenance a day or so afterwards. > > As far as leaving the roots from the other plant, the same rule above > applies. I would remove as much of the root system as possible while > minimizing the affect on other plants where the roots are intertwined. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 5:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving a plant from one tank to another > > Okay so I've been considering moving one of my plants from my 55 > gallon > downstairs to my 125 gallon, the plant is huge and really doesn't > fit into > the 55 gallon very well. It's a bulb type plant (aponogeton > ulvaceus), I was > wondering if anyone had any tips for uprooting a fully grown plant and > moving it to another tank with minimal disturbance to the dirt/gravel? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aponogeton_ulvaceus > I have a VERY large amazon type plant taking up a huge space in my 125 > gallon tank that I think is kind of ugly, so I'm considering > chopping it > completely and just leaving the roots under the gravel/dirt. Then > planting > the aponogeton ulvaceus somewhere in the back of the 125 gallon > tank so that > it has room to grow properly. It's a very pretty corkscrew looking > plant, it > just gets huge and takes up too much room for a 55 gallon tank. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48240	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter

The snails are both sexes, so they don't mate. My moving may have had soethingto do with it. Also since they are 3 yrs old maybe they aren't fertile any longer. I would very much hlike you to send me some of yours and i will return with horn snails or money. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Mary Carpenter <mcrupe@...-tech.edu> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, May 30, 2010 12:37:41 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber > > Hi, Nancy I found > href="http://www.applesnails.com">www.applesnails.com helpful. I golden > and dark mystery snails. Two of each. Well, one died recently, and the fish ate > him. Mine have laid 4 eggs sacks (?) in the 6 months or so that I've had them. > The newest one showed up after the one gold snail died. It's shell was > deteriating for a while, but according to > href="http://applesnails.com">applesnails.com after the snails were done > laying eggs the snail would regain some strength and the shell would basically > regrow. But I've seen one wee little tiny gold snail. I got all excited. I'm > just convinced there's a lot of them in the tank. --- In > ymailto="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nancy > Lee <msbutterfly770@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I am Nancy. I > am in this group. I have a question. I > also > have apple snails. > Do  they has certain times during > year they lay eggs? I was expecting > some this spring > but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all > adults. > Maybe > moving has something to do with it. If you have > any > ideas, please email me. > > Thanks for being > here. > > Nancy > ------------------------------------ Please, > DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail > ymailto="mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email Or email > href="mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post replies. Or email > ymailto="mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/join     (Yahoo! ID > required) >     > href="mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > href="mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48241	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium

Look at the overhead shot of the house. It looks like she may have a garage on one or both sides of the house. Oh, I see one garage is turned into a gym, so she probably has two garages. Also follow the Tennessean.com link given to see more photos. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 11:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium I hope she has a Python (with the 3' siphon tube) for vacuuming the detritus off the bottom of that tank. ;-) Where does she park her cars? I hope she doesn't leave them out in the weather all the time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium Just as soon as I win Alaska lotto... now I gotta buy a ticket ;) LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Sheryl Crow is selling her house. At the link is the information. If > you scroll down through the pictures, you'll see one of the kitchen > showing an aquarium. > > http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/05/25/sheryl-crow-estate-for- > sale/ > http://tinyurl.com/29pp8xj > > Maybe Amber would be interested for several; reasons. The 10,000 sq. ft. > house would give her plenty of room for aquaria, the 154 acres would > allow her to build a fish house, and finally, she'll be able to find > out what it is like to only have shortened days for winter and longer > days for summer instead of the 24 hours of night in the winter and 24 > hours of day during the summer. > > \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48242	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber

Also, if you have acidic water (pH below 7.0), let us know the actual numbers and there may be safe steps you can take to raise your pH slightly so that it's no longer acidic. You DO NOT want to use bottled chemicals for this. There are better, less expensive and safer ways to do this task when it's absolutely needed... which in most cases, it isn't. Besides using the Tums, which I've never used personally for my snails, there are MANY natural foods that are higher in calcium than others. Here's a list... http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 (Note - the link didn't work for me today. It could be a temporary issue. I've notified the moderator of the AppleSnail.net forums. Once it is back to working, read the entire thread for which foods the snails seem to like the most. Here's a thread on Caltrate and Tums as supplements. http://www.applesnail.net/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19007 Most people feel that Caltrate (plain) is best and that the Tums with sweetener isn't as good for the snails but maybe some snails are just like us humans and only like junk food (sweets). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 2:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber If the shells are deteriorating then it sounds like your water may be too soft for them. You can help them out by feeding them Tums (yes the kind you eat for human "issues", they prefer the fruity flavors). I break my Tums into small chunks and scatter them around my tank, but I have a lot of snails. The calcium in the Tums will help their shells. Amber Mary Carpenter wrote: > > Hi, Nancy > I found www.applesnails.com helpful. > I golden and dark mystery snails. Two of each. Well, one died > recently, and the fish ate him. Mine have laid 4 eggs sacks (?) in the > 6 months or so that I've had them. The newest one showed up after the > one gold snail died. It's shell was deteriating for a while, but > according to applesnails.com after the snails were done laying eggs > the snail would regain some strength and the shell would basically > regrow. But I've seen one wee little tiny gold snail. I got all > excited. I'm just convinced there's a lot of them in the tank. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I am Nancy. I am in this group. I have a question. I also have apple > > snails. Do they has certain times during year they lay eggs? I was > > expecting some this spring but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all > > adults. > > Maybe > > moving has something to do with it. If you have any ideas, please > > email me. > > > > Thanks for being here. > > Nancy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48243	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter

While many snails are asexual or hermaphrodites, Apple Snails (aka Mystery Snails) are actually sexed as either male or female and do actually mate. The ones that do not need a partner are often the ones that are called nuisance snails because they breed so easily. The only ones I do not consider to be a nuisance would be MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) which do not breed as much as others and also they do a lot of burrowing into the substrate eating leftover food and they seem to leave plants alone. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Lee Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 10:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter The snails are both sexes, so they don't mate. My moving may have had soethingto do with it. Also since they are 3 yrs old maybe they aren't fertile any longer. I would very much hlike you to send me some of yours and i will return with horn snails or money. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Mary Carpenter <mcrupe@...-tech.edu> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, May 30, 2010 12:37:41 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber > > Hi, Nancy I found > href="http://www.applesnails.com">www.applesnails.com helpful. I golden > and dark mystery snails. Two of each. Well, one died recently, and the > fish ate him. Mine have laid 4 eggs sacks (?) in the 6 months or so that I've had them. > The newest one showed up after the one gold snail died. It's shell was > deteriating for a while, but according to > > href="http://applesnails.com">applesnails.com after the snails were > done laying eggs the snail would regain some strength and the shell > would basically regrow. But I've seen one wee little tiny gold snail. I got all excited. I'm just convinced there's a lot of them in the tank. --- In > ymailto="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I am Nancy. I > am in this group. I have a question. I also have apple snails. > Do  they has certain times during > year they lay eggs? I was expecting > some this spring > but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all adults. > Maybe > moving has something to do with it. If you have any ideas, please > email me. > > Thanks for being > here. > > Nancy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48244	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium

Good eyes! I was hoping to catch you or someone wondering why the heck I am asking that question... if they didn't notice the double-car-garage-to-gym conversion. ;-) I did see that she has two driveways, one going to each side of the mansion so you are probably right that she has another garage on the other side of the mansion. She probably converted the "Servant's Garage". Of course, coming home drunk one night and pulling into the gym could be eventful. I wonder how fast the two treadmills will go with the front wheel drive wheels on them? It's one of them warped mind weekends. Dang thunderstorms are messing up the day/weekend down here. I should be down on one of our beaches... and I could have saved a bundle on suntan oil right now. Just have to roll around in the oily sand first. ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 11:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium Look at the overhead shot of the house. It looks like she may have a garage on one or both sides of the house. Oh, I see one garage is turned into a gym, so she probably has two garages. Also follow the Tennessean.com link given to see more photos. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 11:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium I hope she has a Python (with the 3' siphon tube) for vacuuming the detritus off the bottom of that tank. ;-) Where does she park her cars? I hope she doesn't leave them out in the weather all the time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sheryl Crow's Kitchen Has an Aquarium Just as soon as I win Alaska lotto... now I gotta buy a ticket ;) LOL. Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > Sheryl Crow is selling her house. At the link is the information. If > you scroll down through the pictures, you'll see one of the kitchen > showing an aquarium. > > http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2010/05/25/sheryl-crow-estate-for- > sale/ > http://tinyurl.com/29pp8xj > > Maybe Amber would be interested for several; reasons. The 10,000 sq. ft. > house would give her plenty of room for aquaria, the 154 acres would > allow her to build a fish house, and finally, she'll be able to find > out what it is like to only have shortened days for winter and longer > days for summer instead of the 24 hours of night in the winter and 24 > hours of day during the summer. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48245	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber

Lenny, The site is available, but someone needs to fix the database. A handy link is http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ allowing to see if it is your problem or a site problem. Of course if it can reach the site, it will report that it is up, even if an error is returned, like this database error. One can reach the home page, in this case. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 1:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber Also, if you have acidic water (pH below 7.0), let us know the actual numbers and there may be safe steps you can take to raise your pH slightly so that it's no longer acidic. You DO NOT want to use bottled chemicals for this. There are better, less expensive and safer ways to do this task when it's absolutely needed... which in most cases, it isn't. Besides using the Tums, which I've never used personally for my snails, there are MANY natural foods that are higher in calcium than others. Here's a list... http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 (Note - the link didn't work for me today. It could be a temporary issue. I've notified the moderator of the AppleSnail.net forums. Once it is back to working, read the entire thread for which foods the snails seem to like the most. Here's a thread on Caltrate and Tums as supplements. http://www.applesnail.net/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19007 Most people feel that Caltrate (plain) is best and that the Tums with sweetener isn't as good for the snails but maybe some snails are just like us humans and only like junk food (sweets). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 2:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber If the shells are deteriorating then it sounds like your water may be too soft for them. You can help them out by feeding them Tums (yes the kind you eat for human "issues", they prefer the fruity flavors). I break my Tums into small chunks and scatter them around my tank, but I have a lot of snails. The calcium in the Tums will help their shells. Amber Mary Carpenter wrote: > > Hi, Nancy > I found www.applesnails.com helpful. > I golden and dark mystery snails. Two of each. Well, one died > recently, and the fish ate him. Mine have laid 4 eggs sacks (?) in the > 6 months or so that I've had them. The newest one showed up after the > one gold snail died. It's shell was deteriating for a while, but > according to applesnails.com after the snails were done laying eggs > the snail would regain some strength and the shell would basically > regrow. But I've seen one wee little tiny gold snail. I got all > excited. I'm just convinced there's a lot of them in the tank. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I am Nancy. I am in this group. I have a question. I also have apple > > snails. Do they has certain times during year they lay eggs? I was > > expecting some this spring but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all > > adults. > > Maybe > > moving has something to do with it. If you have any ideas, please > > email me. > > > > Thanks for being here. > > Nancy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48246	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: ATT: Amber

I got a reply back from the moderator already. The URL's need to be edited on many of their posts/sticky's. They changed forum hosting software so the "phpBB2" needs to be changed to "forum3", so this non-working URL, http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 becomes this working URL http://www.applesnail.net/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=3988 and then it works. I also notified them that the entire AppleSnail.net website is no longer being archived by the Wayback Machine, since 2008, and their forums are not archived even further back, probably due to anti-search engine crawler software (I tried to find the archived copy of the link while I was waiting to hear back from AppleSnail moderators). I know many paid content sites use anti-search engine software to block Google, etc., but I don't see it used very often on free websites. For free content sites, I'm not sure of the upside of using this type of software but the downside is that all of the content could be lost forever if the Wayback Machine isn't able to archive the content. I've seen at least a half-dozen GREAT fish related websites/forums disappear from the internet in the past few years but fortunately, most of their content was archived so it's not lost forever. In closing, here's the correct link again, in case the above left anyone dazed and confused... right Amber? ;-) http://www.applesnail.net/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=3988 Oh yeah... Amber's new theme song>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0OhRm6AnMI OR live concert version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-cnq8dAw7E Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 1:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber Lenny, The site is available, but someone needs to fix the database. A handy link is http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ allowing to see if it is your problem or a site problem. Of course if it can reach the site, it will report that it is up, even if an error is returned, like this database error. One can reach the home page, in this case. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 1:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber Also, if you have acidic water (pH below 7.0), let us know the actual numbers and there may be safe steps you can take to raise your pH slightly so that it's no longer acidic. You DO NOT want to use bottled chemicals for this. There are better, less expensive and safer ways to do this task when it's absolutely needed... which in most cases, it isn't. Besides using the Tums, which I've never used personally for my snails, there are MANY natural foods that are higher in calcium than others. Here's a list... http://www.applesnail.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3988 (Note - the link didn't work for me today. It could be a temporary issue. I've notified the moderator of the AppleSnail.net forums. Once it is back to working, read the entire thread for which foods the snails seem to like the most. Here's a thread on Caltrate and Tums as supplements. http://www.applesnail.net/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19007 Most people feel that Caltrate (plain) is best and that the Tums with sweetener isn't as good for the snails but maybe some snails are just like us humans and only like junk food (sweets). Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 2:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber If the shells are deteriorating then it sounds like your water may be too soft for them. You can help them out by feeding them Tums (yes the kind you eat for human "issues", they prefer the fruity flavors). I break my Tums into small chunks and scatter them around my tank, but I have a lot of snails. The calcium in the Tums will help their shells. Amber Mary Carpenter wrote: > > Hi, Nancy > I found www.applesnails.com helpful. > I golden and dark mystery snails. Two of each. Well, one died > recently, and the fish ate him. Mine have laid 4 eggs sacks (?) in the > 6 months or so that I've had them. The newest one showed up after the > one gold snail died. It's shell was deteriating for a while, but > according to applesnails.com after the snails were done laying eggs > the snail would regain some strength and the shell would basically > regrow. But I've seen one wee little tiny gold snail. I got all > excited. I'm just convinced there's a lot of them in the tank. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I am Nancy. I am in this group. I have a question. I also have apple > > snails. Do they has certain times during year they lay eggs? I was > > expecting some this spring but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all > > adults. > > Maybe > > moving has something to do with it. If you have any ideas, please > > email me. > > > > Thanks for being here. > > Nancy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48247	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter

I don't ship my snails (so far at least), but maybe Pam is lurking out there and she has some she can send you :) I got some of mine from her last year (don't have the same ones as mine don't seem to live that long). Amber Nancy Lee wrote: > > The snails are both sexes, so they don't mate. My moving may have had > soethingto do with it. Also since they are 3 yrs old maybe they aren't > fertile any longer. I would very much hlike you to send me some of > yours and i will return with horn snails or money. > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Mary Carpenter <mcrupe@...-tech.edu > <mailto:mcrupe%40email.itt-tech.edu>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, May 30, 2010 12:37:41 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber > > > > Hi, Nancy > I found > href="http://www.applesnails.com">www.applesnails.com helpful. > I golden > > and dark mystery snails. Two of each. Well, one died recently, and > the fish ate > > him. Mine have laid 4 eggs sacks (?) in the 6 months or so that I've > had them. > > The newest one showed up after the one gold snail died. It's shell was > > deteriating for a while, but according to > > href="http://applesnails.com">applesnails.com after the snails were done > > laying eggs the snail would regain some strength and the shell would > basically > > regrow. But I've seen one wee little tiny gold snail. I got all > excited. I'm > > just convinced there's a lot of them in the tank. > > --- In > ymailto="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>" > > href="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>">AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Nancy > > Lee <msbutterfly770@...> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I am Nancy. I > > am in this group. I have a question. I > > also > > have apple snails. > > Do they has certain times during > > year they lay eggs? I was expecting > > some this spring > > but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all > > adults. > > Maybe > > moving has something to do with it. If you have > > any > > ideas, please email me. > > > > Thanks for being > > here. > > > > Nancy > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, > > DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > > this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail > ymailto="mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>" > > href="mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>">aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single > > email > > Or email > href="mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>">aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > messages on the > > group and post replies. > > Or email > ymailto="mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>" > > href="mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>">aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/join > (Yahoo! ID > > required) > > > > > href="mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>">AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > href="mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>">AquaticLife-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48248	From: pam andress	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter

I don't have any to sell at the moment as I sold most of mine. My neighbor has some though. He got them from me and now has lots of babies. If you are interested in some, I can send you some of his. Pam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48249	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter

Okay, please direct me to Pam............. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, May 30, 2010 3:30:56 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: apple snails-Mary Carpenter > > I don't ship my snails (so far at least), but maybe Pam is lurking out there > and she has some she can send you :) I got some of mine from her last year > (don't have the same ones as mine don't seem to live that > long). Amber Nancy Lee wrote: > > The snails are both > sexes, so they don't mate. My moving may have had > soethingto do with > it. Also since they are 3 yrs old maybe they aren't > fertile any longer. > I would very much hlike you to send me some of > yours and i will return > with horn snails or money. > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Mary Carpenter <> href="mailto:mcrupe@...-tech.edu">mcrupe@...-tech.edu > > <mailto:mcrupe%40email.itt-tech.edu>> > > To: > ymailto="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, May 30, > 2010 12:37:41 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ATT: Amber > > > > > Hi, Nancy > I found > > href="http://www.applesnails.com">> href="http://www.applesnails.com">www.applesnails.com helpful. > I > golden > > and dark mystery snails. Two of each. Well, one died > recently, and > the fish ate > > him. Mine have laid 4 eggs > sacks (?) in the 6 months or so that I've > had them. > > The > newest one showed up after the one gold snail died. It's shell was > > > deteriating for a while, but according to > > > href="http://applesnails.com">> href="http://applesnails.com">applesnails.com after the snails were > done > > laying eggs the snail would regain some strength and the shell > would > basically > > regrow. But I've seen one wee little tiny > gold snail. I got all > excited. I'm > > just convinced there's > a lot of them in the tank. > > --- In > ymailto="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>" > > > href="mailto:> href="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>">> ymailto="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com">AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Nancy > > Lee > <msbutterfly770@...> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I > am Nancy. I > > am in this group. I have a question. I > > > also > > have apple snails. > > Do they has certain times > during > > year they lay eggs? I was expecting > > some this > spring > > but haven'y got any yet. Mine now are all > > > adults. > > Maybe > > moving has something to do with it. If > you have > > any > > ideas, please email me. > > > > > Thanks for being > > here. > > > > > Nancy > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, > > DELETE > this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original > > message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" > > > <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in > Advance for Your HELP in > > this matter. > > If you do not > want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail > ymailto="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>" > > > href="mailto:> href="mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>">> ymailto="mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to > receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single > > email > > Or email > href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>">> ymailto="mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for > the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > messages on > the > > group and post replies. > > Or email > > ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>" > > > href="mailto:> href="mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>">> ymailto="mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com" > href="mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com">aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to > receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48250	From: Lisa Lawless	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re, Guppy with no tail

It looks like it has been bitten. Thanks, I'll seperate it then, till it can recover.   Lisa   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48251	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/30/2010
Subject: Re: Re, Guppy with no tail

If you can find the fin nipper, here's what I use to do when I had a male Zebra Danio that would constantly pick on this one female. Instead of putting her in quarantine or in a breeder net, I would put him in the breeder net in the same tank so he was segregated while she was allowed to recover... kind of my way of doing a fish time-out since they're too small to be smacked on the tail-fin. ;-) Of course, this time-out thing only works when it's a minor fin-nipping caught early, not a major one like you are seeing. If you have Melafix, it's a good medication for this type of fin injury and helps to keep down some of the potential bacterial issues that can ensue in a healing fin. If you don't have Melafix, then keep the water quality in EXCELLENT condition during the healing process. Added salt, at 1 teaspoon per gallon, is easily tolerated by guppies and will also help prevent secondary infections. In fact, salt would probably be better than the Melafix since it's a guppy. Of course, if the guppy is in a planted tank, make sure your plants will tolerate the salt. If they don't do well with that much salt, then the Melafix becomes the better choice again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Lawless Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 5:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re, Guppy with no tail It looks like it has been bitten. Thanks, I'll seperate it then, till it can recover.   Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48252	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 5/31/2010
Subject: FW: Monday May 31, 2010: Reference.com On This Day - Algae

I get these daily Reference.com and Dictionary.com emails and today's Reference.com email was about Algae so I thought I'd forward it to the group. See the info below... Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: On Behalf Of Reference.com On This Day Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 2:00 AM To: Lenny Vasbinder Subject: Monday May 31, 2010: Reference.com On This Day Reference.com On This Day <http://www.reference.com/> This is the 151st day of the year, with 214 days remaining in 2010. Fact of the Day: algae Algae (singular is alga) are mainly aquatic, photosynthetic organisms of the kingdom Protista. They range in size from the tiny flagellate Micromonas, 0.00004 inch in diameter, to giant kelp that reach 200 feet in length (Lenny adds: And we complain about the stuff we get in our tanks. ;-)). Algae supply much of the earth's oxygen and are the food base for almost all aquatic life; they are also an original source of petroleum products and provide foods and industrial products for humans. Algae have many types of life cycles, from simple to complex. Some species are ancient, while others have evolved recently. The word alga is Latin for "seaweed."

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48253	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Fish Talk Radio Stations (Internet)

As if we don't already have enough sources of information about our fish, I thought I'd bring up the fish talk radio stations that are available over the internet... something you can have playing in the background while you're at work or busy reading and posting here at AquaticLife. ;-) I'm pretty sure there are more stations besides those that I will be listing below so let me know if you know of any others. http://www.bluezooradio.com/index.html - Blue Zoo Radio is live every Monday evening at 8pm EST. The archives are available for immediate download to your computer, iPod or Mp3 player OR you can stream them on your computer ON Demand. Archived downloads are available here... http://www.sportstalkcleveland.com/bluezooradio/ There is also BlueZoo TV - http://bluezooradio.com/bluezootv.html More segments on YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/user/bluezootv1 http://www.petfishtalk.com/ - Click here http://serv.adspeed.com/ad.php?do=clk&aid=29130 every Wednesday between 1 and 3 pm, Pacific Time, to hear the Pet Fish Talk Show live. Click here http://www.petfishtalk.com/pages/tech_support.htm#listening if the first link does not work for you. Click here http://www.petfishtalk.com/pages/show_time.htm for more information about the time of the show in your time zone. Over 285 Pet Fish Talk Shows have been recorded and are available 24/7 in the archive. Click here http://www.petfishtalk.com/pages/pft_archive.htm to go to the archive. http://www.petfish.net/podcasts/ - This site doesn't appear to be producing new shows but have their archived shows from 2007 and 2008. NOTICE and Caveat emptor... or would that be Caveat auditor??? - As usual, remember that many of these programs are supported by advertisers so their products may be *pushed*, which may or may not always be the best thing for our aquariums... IMO. On a side note... does anybody know of a good/reliable English to Latin translation website? I usually use Google Translator (which doesn't have Latin as an option) or http://www.stars21.com/translator/ which has the largest translator database that I've found on the net BUT when I use their English to Latin translator, I got some unexpected returns. For example, "Let the buyer beware" commonly known as "Caveat emptor" was translated to "permissum buyer caveo" and the reverse translation of "Caveat emptor" from Latin to English returned "hollow place a buying" since "caveat" appears to be "cave" or "hollow place" in Latin. I'm not sure why or how "Caveat emptor" became "Let the buyer beware" but I'm guessing it goes back to caveman days... or perhaps if you're shopping in Bin Laden's neighborhood. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48254	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: pH too high

Hi I am setting up my marine tank. I have the water adjusted correctly for salt etc. and have had the live sand and live rock in for a week. The pH test is kind of confusing: everything else is as expected - nitrates showing between "ok" and "ideal" - presumably from the sand/rocks doing their thing. But I can't really tell the difference between the last two colors on the bottle! one is marked as 8.4 and "ideal" the other is 8.8 and "too high". both are hot pink and even putting the test strip right between them can't tell the difference... what now? Thanks Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48255	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

I would get something other than the test strips for testing your tank. I don't even know what brand you are using but historically, EVERY brand that I've seen give inconsistent results between the strips... in other words, you can dip three strips at the same time, into water from the same area of the tank and all three strips will come up with slightly or grossly different results. For a marine tank, I would get a good master test kit that uses test tubes and reagent drops/powders. Depending on your budget, a master test kit can be as low as $25.00 (API's kit) to as high as $100.00 or so for one of the upper end brands but the API master test kit works great for most folks. If it was a freshwater tank, Walmart.com sells the API Freshwater Master Test Kit for around $15.00 with free shipping to your local store. It has test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH high and pH low (which you probably wouldn't need with your saltwater tank). API also sells a separate combo kit for GH and KH levels. According to API's website, http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=68, their saltwater kit has the same basic four tests as the freshwater kit except it doesn't include the pH low test... so the freshwater kit from Walmart.com should work fine for you for those tests. As far as the discrepancies, which could just be due to the test strips, I don't think you should have a problem with either 8.4 pH or 8.8 pH and I'm not sure why the test strips are saying "too high" for the 8.8 pH. While it's slightly higher than what you might be looking for... which I'm presuming is the 8.4 pH level, remember that in ALL aquariums, the pH will constantly come down due to the ecology of the aquarium... that is the fish, bacteria, etc., use up O2, minerals and nutrients from the water and excrete CO2 (which lowers the pH), acid from urine, acids from decaying detritus, etc., all of which will work to lower the pH. To me, starting with it a little high just means that once you get the ecology going, it will lower a little and then when you do your subsequent PWC's partial water changes, you can adjust the levels of the incoming water accordingly to keep things in balance. Here's a "pH Control For Dummies" article.. not saying you're a dummie but easy reading is always better than hard reading to me... lol http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/phalkalinity/a/aa061301.htm Are you buying replacement water or do you have your own RO filter system for water or ??? Are you mixing your own water? What additives are you using, if any? BTW... I'm NOT a saltwater fish keeper but I do know water chemistry and I'm sure others will chime in as well. How soon were you going to try to add fish? In case you don't already know, here's a FREE online magazine for saltwater/reef aquarium keepers and you can also read all past issues in their archives. LOTS of great info in this free resource. http://www.reefkeeping.com/index.htm I've been reading through many of the articles in preparation for when I finally take the step to setting up a saltwater/reef tank. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 11:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH too high Hi I am setting up my marine tank. I have the water adjusted correctly for salt etc. and have had the live sand and live rock in for a week. The pH test is kind of confusing: everything else is as expected - nitrates showing between "ok" and "ideal" - presumably from the sand/rocks doing their thing. But I can't really tell the difference between the last two colors on the bottle! one is marked as 8.4 and "ideal" the other is 8.8 and "too high". both are hot pink and even putting the test strip right between them can't tell the difference... what now? Thanks Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48256	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

I meant to put a question mark at the end of "high" as my greatest stress was not being able to read the test - the two tiny squares on the match-up sheet look identical. No, I'm not color blind - just had my eyes checked yesterday! The test strips were suggested by the LFS; I remember using vials when I had the salt tank a couple decades ago. I will stop by the local walmart tomorrow and see if they have the kit you mentioned; they do sell some fresh water fish so probably have it. Can use it while I decide how much $$ I want to sink into testing - those electronic/digital ones sure are appealing but at this point I'd rather put the $$ into getting the tank set up. After reading the articles (dummies was sure nice after I spent two hours struggling through the "Water Chemistry for Genius" ones I had already found. LOL For the record, I"m somewhat inbetween, have basic chemistry knowledge but have never had to apply it beyond cooking/canning. I am not going with a major reef system - my tank is small (30 gal) so I"ll have a few small fish, some invertibrates, would like to have seahorses (major interest in fishes is ground dwellers - jaw fish, gobies etc.) Someday I want to have an octopus again but this is not the tank for him... The lady at the local fish store said it would be about two weeks after the live sand/live rock were put in for adding creatures. that was 6 days ago. I should have been testing all along so I would know if the nitrates are going up or down but doesn't the fact that the nitrites are low mean that the spike is over? I want to add a bit more live sand (bigger chunks so maybe it is called substrate?) the amount i have is technically accurate but i want it a bit deeper to make some topographical impact. I used tap water and added a de-chlorinator and the salt mix. Again, per the LFS person. And she said water changes once/month, what I'm reading suggests that isn't enough, even for a low population? I'm willing to do more but need to get more salt. How often should I test? Again, I'm willing to do it, just need to know whats necessary and what is OCD... :) Thanks for the help! Janet > I would get something other than the test strips for testing your tank. > As far as the discrepancies, which could just be due to the test strips, I > don't think you should have a problem with either 8.4 pH or 8.8 pH ..., the pH will > constantly come down due to the ecology of the aquarium... that is the > fish, Here's a "pH Control For Dummies" article.. > Are you buying replacement water or do you have your own RO filter system > for water or ??? Are you mixing your own water? What additives are you > using, if any? > > How soon were you going to try to add fish? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48257	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

I've never actually seen the kits in any of my local Walmart stores.. just the dipsticks for dummies (as I jokingly call them.. lol), which is why I mentioned http://www.Walmart.com as the place to go and then they'll ship it to your local store with free shipping. The other BIG upside of using a master test kit is that you'll get a LOT more tests for the dollar. The dip sticks probably cost 10X more per test and give less accurate or less reliable results as you've seen. Yeah, you should have been testing all along and I wouldn't add any fish/critters to the tank until you have had a chance to test it daily for at least a week or so to make sure it's cycled properly and that's only after you have a source of ammonia to know what is happening with your nitrogen cycle. You could always head to your local Ace Hardware or other mom-pop type hardware store and get some plain ammonia (Ace sells the quart for around a dollar and that is way more than you'll end up needing) and dose the tank yourself to make sure the live sand/rock is doing it's thing and cycling the ammonia through to nitrates and then denitrifying the nitrates. Without testing, your nitrates could be low because NOTHING is happening in your nitrogen cycle to create nitrates in the first place. Only dosing and then daily testing will tell what is happening with the nitrogen cycle. Dosing ammonia is a lot better than using a fish to cycle a tank and put it through all that stress and the related health issues, although I know it still goes on in both FW and SW tanks for those who might not be informed about using plain ammonia to do the job. If you get the ammonia, let us know and we'll give you dosing instructions for saltwater tanks. I know the FW dosing off the top of my head but I'll have to do a little reading to make sure we don't overdose your SW tank. Since you are using tap water and a dechlor, once you get your master test kit, you should run a 48 hour baseline test on your tap water. I have an article on my blog with instructions for doing this test, just so you will know your tap water baseline to know your starting point. Many folks test the tap water right out the tap but those numbers are almost always different than what the water will really be like once it's out of the pipes and exposed to air/light for 48 hours. Here's the link and TinyURL for the article. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/05/find-your-tap-source-water-baseline.ht ml http://tinyurl.com/tap-water-baseline While some folks are able to get away with using their tap water for saltwater tanks, many tap water sources have too many contaminants, pollutants, etc., in it that will harm your more sensitive saltwater fish and critters. The tap water dechlor product... let us know which one you're using... will help with the chlorine/chloramine and should treat heavy metals but nowadays there is SO MUCH MORE junk in our tap water. Your local water utility annual report should give a decent summary of what kind of crap is in your water. I think this is why so many SW aquarists use their own RO water or some even buy pre-mixed RO based saltwater from their LFS in 5G containers and use it for their PWC's. I agree with you that the once a month PWC's (partial water changes) is not likely going to be enough but it depends on your bioload. For example, if you have a very small bioload, like a single small shrimp, in a 30G tank, that would probably work but if you have a full bioload that is putting out 100 times more waste than that single small shrimp, then obviously you'll have to do more PWC's, filter maintenance, etc., to keep the water quality in good condition. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high I meant to put a question mark at the end of "high" as my greatest stress was not being able to read the test - the two tiny squares on the match-up sheet look identical. No, I'm not color blind - just had my eyes checked yesterday! The test strips were suggested by the LFS; I remember using vials when I had the salt tank a couple decades ago. I will stop by the local walmart tomorrow and see if they have the kit you mentioned; they do sell some fresh water fish so probably have it. Can use it while I decide how much $$ I want to sink into testing - those electronic/digital ones sure are appealing but at this point I'd rather put the $$ into getting the tank set up. After reading the articles (dummies was sure nice after I spent two hours struggling through the "Water Chemistry for Genius" ones I had already found. LOL For the record, I"m somewhat inbetween, have basic chemistry knowledge but have never had to apply it beyond cooking/canning. I am not going with a major reef system - my tank is small (30 gal) so I"ll have a few small fish, some invertibrates, would like to have seahorses (major interest in fishes is ground dwellers - jaw fish, gobies etc.) Someday I want to have an octopus again but this is not the tank for him... The lady at the local fish store said it would be about two weeks after the live sand/live rock were put in for adding creatures. that was 6 days ago. I should have been testing all along so I would know if the nitrates are going up or down but doesn't the fact that the nitrites are low mean that the spike is over? I want to add a bit more live sand (bigger chunks so maybe it is called substrate?) the amount i have is technically accurate but i want it a bit deeper to make some topographical impact. I used tap water and added a de-chlorinator and the salt mix. Again, per the LFS person. And she said water changes once/month, what I'm reading suggests that isn't enough, even for a low population? I'm willing to do more but need to get more salt. How often should I test? Again, I'm willing to do it, just need to know whats necessary and what is OCD... :) Thanks for the help! Janet > I would get something other than the test strips for testing your tank. > As far as the discrepancies, which could just be due to the test > strips, I don't think you should have a problem with either 8.4 pH or > 8.8 pH ..., the pH will > constantly come down due to the ecology of the aquarium... that is the > fish, critters, micro-ecology, etc. Here's a "pH Control For Dummies" article.. > Are you buying replacement water or do you have your own RO filter > system for water or ??? Are you mixing your own water? What > additives are you using, if any? > > How soon were you going to try to add fish? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48258	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

Janet, I see that Lenny is putting you on the right track here. The test strips you find in the store are pretty much bogus, however, they are probably pretty good ancillary revenue generators for the store to sell more stuff that you probably don't really need. But, be it known that there are some very high quality strips out there, and you will pay for the privilege of using them. They are used by real science people in certain situations to take measurements, i.e. when not in the lab. Do as Lenny suggests and get a 48 hour baseline of your tap water. I'd go a step further and do the 48 hour baseline both straight from the tap, and another set with the salt mix added to it to see how much they may differ. If you are using RO water, be sure to mix it up right with the proper recipe to add back in the good stuff you need that the RO may remove from the water. Back to the 48 hour baseline. I was rudely interrupted by the RO thought. Draw the water into a container. Measure the water right after it is drawn from the tap. Put the container aside for 24 hours--roughly, the time period does not need to be exact--then test again. After a second 24 hour period test a third time. Record the values of all three readings for reference. The readings will give you a more representative idea of what your water is really like. There are times when you will need to add fresh water to your marine tank to help control the salinity, and you should be able to calculate out exactly how much you need to add to gain your goal. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 12:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pH too high Hi I am setting up my marine tank. I have the water adjusted correctly for salt etc. and have had the live sand and live rock in for a week. The pH test is kind of confusing: everything else is as expected - nitrates showing between "ok" and "ideal" - presumably from the sand/rocks doing their thing. But I can't really tell the difference between the last two colors on the bottle! one is marked as 8.4 and "ideal" the other is 8.8 and "too high". both are hot pink and even putting the test strip right between them can't tell the difference... what now? Thanks Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48259	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Photo problem

I am trying to post photos to go with a written post I want to send in to the group. I keep getting error messages after I upload the photos, even though I am doing it the same way I always do it. I have been trying for several days, but still they won't come through. Maybe the moderators are unavailable? Or is there a problem with the photo uploading software from yahoo? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48260	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: Photo problem

Moderators are here. No pictures have come through for approval recently. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:57 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Photo problem I am trying to post photos to go with a written post I want to send in to the group. I keep getting error messages after I upload the photos, even though I am doing it the same way I always do it. I have been trying for several days, but still they won't come through. Maybe the moderators are unavailable? Or is there a problem with the photo uploading software from yahoo? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48261	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: Photo problem

There haven't been a whole lot of messages coming thru the past couple of days either, until today. I checked the Yahoo Group's Blog and nothing reported there. http://www.YGroupsBlog.com The last issue they reported was back on May 13, 2010. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Photo problem Moderators are here. No pictures have come through for approval recently. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:57 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Photo problem I am trying to post photos to go with a written post I want to send in to the group. I keep getting error messages after I upload the photos, even though I am doing it the same way I always do it. I have been trying for several days, but still they won't come through. Maybe the moderators are unavailable? Or is there a problem with the photo uploading software from yahoo? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48262	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: Photo problem

I've tried about four or five times. Is there anything I can do, or just keep trying? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 2, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Deenerz@... wrote: > Moderators are here. No pictures have come through for approval > recently. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:57 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Photo problem > > I am trying to post photos to go with a written post I want to send > in to the group. I keep getting error messages after I upload the > photos, even though I am doing it the same way I always do it. I have > been trying for several days, but still they won't come through. > > Maybe the moderators are unavailable? Or is there a problem with the > photo uploading software from yahoo? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48263	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/2/2010
Subject: Re: Photo problem

Do you have another online photo album? You could upload them there and just post links to the group. I use Webshots to host most of my online photos but there are many other free services... PhotoBucket, Flickr (which is owned by Yahoo and will work with your same Yahoo ID and password) and several other free reputable photo hosting services. In fact, it's best to have your online photos hosted identically on two different services as these types of services have been known to shut down and folks have lost all of their photos if they didn't have a redundancy plan. Even Yahoo shut down Yahoo Photos a couple of years ago when they bought Flickr. They notified people, via email, to move their photos to a Flickr account but many folks might have quit using their Yahoo Mail accounts and never got the emails and ended up losing their photos. I don't think Yahoo Groups will ever shut down but then I thought the same thing about MSN Groups and they shut down around a year ago and all content was flushed.... except for the stuff that was saved by the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. Many AOHell users lost all of their webpages and photos when AOL shut down that section of AOL as well. The internet is great but is still rather young and still kind of volatile. Heck, I thought I lost my favorite picture of me but fortunately \\Steve// found it in one of the deep dark crevices of the internet and sent me a link. <G> Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Photo problem I've tried about four or five times. Is there anything I can do, or just keep trying? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 2, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Deenerz@... wrote: > Moderators are here. No pictures have come through for approval > recently. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:57 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Photo problem > > I am trying to post photos to go with a written post I want to send in > to the group. I keep getting error messages after I upload the photos, > even though I am doing it the same way I always do it. I have been > trying for several days, but still they won't come through. > > Maybe the moderators are unavailable? Or is there a problem with the > photo uploading software from yahoo? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48264	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

You're right; they are available online but not instore. I'll check and see if the LFS has them; if they do I can get over there tomorrow. I do want to do the ammonia addition to make sure things are cycling correctly. But if the live sand/rock isn't doing the trick won't I need critters in there anyway? On the baseline for tap - am I understanding correctly that I use a fresh water kit to test it straight out of the tap (and again at 24, 48 hrs), and also mix some up with salt and do baseline with it? My de-chlor product is "water-rite" - says removes chlorine, chloramine and adjusts pH. It does not list ingredients. I think I will be better off doing water changes weekly - it will be easier to be consistent. I didn't see any sign of an RO hookup at the LFS so I will either need to set up something here (pointers??) or buy bottled. Should I test daily "forever" or just while I'm getting things set up and populated? I have not found anything that discusses bioload for salt water - seems like when I had fresh there was an inches-per-gallon ratio. How much impact does the live sand have? They had to order the color I'm using so I won't finish with the hardscaping for another week or two when it arrives. Also, the article about using ammonia suggests a 6-8 week cycle (for FW obviously). When I've "popped" a tank with fish it has taken several weeks, and that is what the LFS suggested the sand/rock would produce. You guys are great! Thanks for all the help. Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48265	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Heterandria formosa available NC

I hope it's OK to post this as it is not really an ad? I have about fifty or more heterandria formosa babies that need new homes soon. I don't want any money for them, and I would be willing to ship since these fish are so hardy. They are AKA least killifish, dwarf livebearer, mosquitofish, etc etc. I will have them, basically, from now on:) These are some of my favorite fish ever - they are very mellow and yet cheery. Great eaters, not delicate, small, they don't eat their babies... I have pictures available but am not able to load them onto the group photo section for some reason. To see the tank I think there are three pictures in new photos from a while ago, or here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ list If anyone is interested in these fish please contact me. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48266	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

I've never set up a saltwater tank, but I don't understand how the sand can do a complete cycle without adding any ammonia to start the cycle. Doesn't saltwater have the same type of cycle as freshwater just different creatures that eat the ammonia/nitrite/and nitrates? If that's the case it seems like while the sand is "doing it's thing" you should have to add ammonia every day just like with fishless cycling a freshwater tank? Amber Janet224@... wrote: > > You're right; they are available online but not instore. I'll check and > see if the LFS has them; if they do I can get over there tomorrow. I do > want to do the ammonia addition to make sure things are cycling correctly. > But if the live sand/rock isn't doing the trick won't I need critters in > there anyway? > > On the baseline for tap - am I understanding correctly that I use a fresh > water kit to test it straight out of the tap (and again at 24, 48 hrs), > and also mix some up with salt and do baseline with it? > > My de-chlor product is "water-rite" - says removes chlorine, chloramine > and adjusts pH. It does not list ingredients. > > I think I will be better off doing water changes weekly - it will be > easier to be consistent. I didn't see any sign of an RO hookup at the LFS > so I will either need to set up something here (pointers??) or buy > bottled. Should I test daily "forever" or just while I'm getting things > set up and populated? > > I have not found anything that discusses bioload for salt water - seems > like when I had fresh there was an inches-per-gallon ratio. > > How much impact does the live sand have? They had to order the color I'm > using so I won't finish with the hardscaping for another week or two when > it arrives. Also, the article about using ammonia suggests a 6-8 week > cycle (for FW obviously). When I've "popped" a tank with fish it has > taken several weeks, and that is what the LFS suggested the sand/rock > would produce. > > You guys are great! Thanks for all the help. > > Janet > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48267	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC

Love the tank Lainey, but I can't see any fish in it, LOL. Are they that small? ;) I love that red plant you have, wish I had the energy to do a DIY co2 or something to get my plants that dark of a red... I have one that's reddish/green at best, LOL. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I hope it's OK to post this as it is not really an ad? > > I have about fifty or more heterandria formosa babies that need new > homes soon. I don't want any money for them, and I would be willing > to ship since these fish are so hardy. > > They are AKA least killifish, dwarf livebearer, mosquitofish, etc etc. > > I will have them, basically, from now on:) > > These are some of my favorite fish ever - they are very mellow and > yet cheery. Great eaters, not delicate, small, they don't eat their > babies... > > I have pictures available but am not able to load them onto the group > photo section for some reason. To see the tank I think there are > three pictures in new photos from a while ago, or here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ > list > > If anyone is interested in these fish please contact me. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48268	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

Oh and I was going to say the sand is actually a very good thing to have in a saltwater setup, it helps keep the tank balanced just like having live plants helps a freshwater tank to keep the nitrates low (among other stuff). Think of the sand as your little creatures that recycle your fish waste for you between water changes. It doesn't make it so you don't need to do water changes, but it helps so that you may not have to do them quite so often depending on your bioload. Basically it can allow you to put a little more fish/creatures in your tank than you would if you didn't have that sand and wanted to stock the tank without OVER stocking the tank (if that makes any sense, LOL). When I bought my 125 gallon tank it came with all the live sand for a saltwater tank as well, which I had no need for since I was going to set it up as a freshwater tank instead. I still use the sand for other purposes in my freshwater tank (and it's going to last me forever too, LOL), but it would have saved me a ton of money on substrate if I had used it for a saltwater setup instead. Amber > > Janet224@... wrote: >> >> You're right; they are available online but not instore. I'll check and >> see if the LFS has them; if they do I can get over there tomorrow. I do >> want to do the ammonia addition to make sure things are cycling >> correctly. >> But if the live sand/rock isn't doing the trick won't I need critters in >> there anyway? >> >> On the baseline for tap - am I understanding correctly that I use a >> fresh >> water kit to test it straight out of the tap (and again at 24, 48 hrs), >> and also mix some up with salt and do baseline with it? >> >> My de-chlor product is "water-rite" - says removes chlorine, chloramine >> and adjusts pH. It does not list ingredients. >> >> I think I will be better off doing water changes weekly - it will be >> easier to be consistent. I didn't see any sign of an RO hookup at the >> LFS >> so I will either need to set up something here (pointers??) or buy >> bottled. Should I test daily "forever" or just while I'm getting things >> set up and populated? >> >> I have not found anything that discusses bioload for salt water - seems >> like when I had fresh there was an inches-per-gallon ratio. >> >> How much impact does the live sand have? They had to order the color I'm >> using so I won't finish with the hardscaping for another week or two >> when >> it arrives. Also, the article about using ammonia suggests a 6-8 week >> cycle (for FW obviously). When I've "popped" a tank with fish it has >> taken several weeks, and that is what the LFS suggested the sand/rock >> would produce. >> >> You guys are great! Thanks for all the help. >> >> Janet >> >>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48269	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

Amber, If the sand is live sand it has animals in it and they do the cycle. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 3, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I've never set up a saltwater tank, but I don't understand how the > sand > can do a complete cycle without adding any ammonia to start the cycle. > Doesn't saltwater have the same type of cycle as freshwater just > different creatures that eat the ammonia/nitrite/and nitrates? > If that's the case it seems like while the sand is "doing it's thing" > you should have to add ammonia every day just like with fishless > cycling > a freshwater tank? > > Amber > > Janet224@... wrote: >> >> You're right; they are available online but not instore. I'll >> check and >> see if the LFS has them; if they do I can get over there tomorrow. >> I do >> want to do the ammonia addition to make sure things are cycling >> correctly. >> But if the live sand/rock isn't doing the trick won't I need >> critters in >> there anyway? >> >> On the baseline for tap - am I understanding correctly that I use >> a fresh >> water kit to test it straight out of the tap (and again at 24, 48 >> hrs), >> and also mix some up with salt and do baseline with it? >> >> My de-chlor product is "water-rite" - says removes chlorine, >> chloramine >> and adjusts pH. It does not list ingredients. >> >> I think I will be better off doing water changes weekly - it will be >> easier to be consistent. I didn't see any sign of an RO hookup at >> the LFS >> so I will either need to set up something here (pointers??) or buy >> bottled. Should I test daily "forever" or just while I'm getting >> things >> set up and populated? >> >> I have not found anything that discusses bioload for salt water - >> seems >> like when I had fresh there was an inches-per-gallon ratio. >> >> How much impact does the live sand have? They had to order the >> color I'm >> using so I won't finish with the hardscaping for another week or >> two when >> it arrives. Also, the article about using ammonia suggests a 6-8 week >> cycle (for FW obviously). When I've "popped" a tank with fish it has >> taken several weeks, and that is what the LFS suggested the sand/rock >> would produce. >> >> You guys are great! Thanks for all the help. >> >> Janet >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48270	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

Yes I understand that bit, but what STARTS this cycle? Normally the "animals" live in your freshwater as well, but they don't start a cycle without feeding them (in this case adding ammonia every day), shouldn't you have to feed the live sand? Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Amber, > > If the sand is live sand it has animals in it and they do the cycle. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 3, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I've never set up a saltwater tank, but I don't understand how the > > sand > > can do a complete cycle without adding any ammonia to start the cycle. > > Doesn't saltwater have the same type of cycle as freshwater just > > different creatures that eat the ammonia/nitrite/and nitrates? > > If that's the case it seems like while the sand is "doing it's thing" > > you should have to add ammonia every day just like with fishless > > cycling > > a freshwater tank? > > > > Amber > > > > Janet224@... <mailto:Janet224%40farmtel.net> wrote: > >> > >> You're right; they are available online but not instore. I'll > >> check and > >> see if the LFS has them; if they do I can get over there tomorrow. > >> I do > >> want to do the ammonia addition to make sure things are cycling > >> correctly. > >> But if the live sand/rock isn't doing the trick won't I need > >> critters in > >> there anyway? > >> > >> On the baseline for tap - am I understanding correctly that I use > >> a fresh > >> water kit to test it straight out of the tap (and again at 24, 48 > >> hrs), > >> and also mix some up with salt and do baseline with it? > >> > >> My de-chlor product is "water-rite" - says removes chlorine, > >> chloramine > >> and adjusts pH. It does not list ingredients. > >> > >> I think I will be better off doing water changes weekly - it will be > >> easier to be consistent. I didn't see any sign of an RO hookup at > >> the LFS > >> so I will either need to set up something here (pointers??) or buy > >> bottled. Should I test daily "forever" or just while I'm getting > >> things > >> set up and populated? > >> > >> I have not found anything that discusses bioload for salt water - > >> seems > >> like when I had fresh there was an inches-per-gallon ratio. > >> > >> How much impact does the live sand have? They had to order the > >> color I'm > >> using so I won't finish with the hardscaping for another week or > >> two when > >> it arrives. Also, the article about using ammonia suggests a 6-8 week > >> cycle (for FW obviously). When I've "popped" a tank with fish it has > >> taken several weeks, and that is what the LFS suggested the sand/rock > >> would produce. > >> > >> You guys are great! Thanks for all the help. > >> > >> Janet > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48271	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC

Yes, they're that small:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 3, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Love the tank Lainey, but I can't see any fish in it, LOL. Are they > that > small? ;) > I love that red plant you have, wish I had the energy to do a DIY > co2 or > something to get my plants that dark of a red... I have one that's > reddish/green at best, LOL. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I hope it's OK to post this as it is not really an ad? >> >> I have about fifty or more heterandria formosa babies that need new >> homes soon. I don't want any money for them, and I would be willing >> to ship since these fish are so hardy. >> >> They are AKA least killifish, dwarf livebearer, mosquitofish, etc >> etc. >> >> I will have them, basically, from now on:) >> >> These are some of my favorite fish ever - they are very mellow and >> yet cheery. Great eaters, not delicate, small, they don't eat their >> babies... >> >> I have pictures available but am not able to load them onto the group >> photo section for some reason. To see the tank I think there are >> three pictures in new photos from a while ago, or here: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ >> pic/ >> list >> >> If anyone is interested in these fish please contact me. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48272	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC

Would guppies eat them? Are they colorful at all? Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Yes, they're that small:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 3, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Love the tank Lainey, but I can't see any fish in it, LOL. Are they > > that > > small? ;) > > I love that red plant you have, wish I had the energy to do a DIY > > co2 or > > something to get my plants that dark of a red... I have one that's > > reddish/green at best, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> I hope it's OK to post this as it is not really an ad? > >> > >> I have about fifty or more heterandria formosa babies that need new > >> homes soon. I don't want any money for them, and I would be willing > >> to ship since these fish are so hardy. > >> > >> They are AKA least killifish, dwarf livebearer, mosquitofish, etc > >> etc. > >> > >> I will have them, basically, from now on:) > >> > >> These are some of my favorite fish ever - they are very mellow and > >> yet cheery. Great eaters, not delicate, small, they don't eat their > >> babies... > >> > >> I have pictures available but am not able to load them onto the group > >> photo section for some reason. To see the tank I think there are > >> three pictures in new photos from a while ago, or here: > >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ > >> pic/ > >> list > >> > >> If anyone is interested in these fish please contact me. > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48273	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC

I don't know if gupps would eat them, probably but then mine don't. I'll send you private pics:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 3, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Would guppies eat them? Are they colorful at all? > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> Yes, they're that small:) >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> On Jun 3, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: >> >>> Love the tank Lainey, but I can't see any fish in it, LOL. Are they >>> that >>> small? ;) >>> I love that red plant you have, wish I had the energy to do a DIY >>> co2 or >>> something to get my plants that dark of a red... I have one that's >>> reddish/green at best, LOL. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Lainey Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>> I hope it's OK to post this as it is not really an ad? >>>> >>>> I have about fifty or more heterandria formosa babies that need new >>>> homes soon. I don't want any money for them, and I would be willing >>>> to ship since these fish are so hardy. >>>> >>>> They are AKA least killifish, dwarf livebearer, mosquitofish, etc >>>> etc. >>>> >>>> I will have them, basically, from now on:) >>>> >>>> These are some of my favorite fish ever - they are very mellow and >>>> yet cheery. Great eaters, not delicate, small, they don't eat their >>>> babies... >>>> >>>> I have pictures available but am not able to load them onto the >>>> group >>>> photo section for some reason. To see the tank I think there are >>>> three pictures in new photos from a while ago, or here: >>>> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/ >>>> pic/ >>>> list >>>> >>>> If anyone is interested in these fish please contact me. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Lainey >>>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, >>> Thank You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< >>> ((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT >>> important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original >>> message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old >>> subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· >>> ´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on >>> "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, >>> which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail >>> option where you will still be able to read messages on the group >>> and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive >> individual e- >>> mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48274	From: PrairieSpirit	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC

Hello Lainey, I would love to have some of your little fish, they are cute. I have looking at your tanks they are simply beautiful and you keep them so well. I am fairly new back to tropical fish, so they would be a welcomed addition. Thank you much Ivan South Dakota From: Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 4:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heterandria formosa available NC I hope it's OK to post this as it is not really an ad? I have about fifty or more heterandria formosa babies that need new homes soon. I don't want any money for them, and I would be willing to ship since these fish are so hardy. They are AKA least killifish, dwarf livebearer, mosquitofish, etc etc. I will have them, basically, from now on:) These are some of my favorite fish ever - they are very mellow and yet cheery. Great eaters, not delicate, small, they don't eat their babies... I have pictures available but am not able to load them onto the group photo section for some reason. To see the tank I think there are three pictures in new photos from a while ago, or here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ list If anyone is interested in these fish please contact me. Thank you, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48275	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC

I forgot to mention: I am hoping the receiver can cover the shipping, which would be express mail or priority mail, so maybe six or seven for prio and maybe 15 or so for express, whichever is preferred. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 3, 2010, at 5:37 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I hope it's OK to post this as it is not really an ad? > > I have about fifty or more heterandria formosa babies that need new > homes soon. I don't want any money for them, and I would be willing > to ship since these fish are so hardy. > > They are AKA least killifish, dwarf livebearer, mosquitofish, etc etc. > > I will have them, basically, from now on:) > > These are some of my favorite fish ever - they are very mellow and > yet cheery. Great eaters, not delicate, small, they don't eat their > babies... > > I have pictures available but am not able to load them onto the group > photo section for some reason. To see the tank I think there are > three pictures in new photos from a while ago, or here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ > list > > If anyone is interested in these fish please contact me. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48276	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

The tap baseline you are correct, you will need FW reagents to do the testing. If you know a FW person, you might be able to borrow his kit to do the few tests you need to do. Never heard of "water-rite", but the pH adjustment is a no-no. I'd suggest you switch to Ultimate by Hikari, if you have chloramines in your tap water, or, also used by people here, Prime by, I believe, Sea-Chem. Both also have chlorine only products. You probably have not guessed, but I am not a marine person, so take the following with a grain or two of salt. I have read many articles over the years that mention using RO water for marine (and FW) tanks, then reconstituting it with a chemical recipe to get the kind of water you would like. In most cases I do not think this is necessary. Making, or procuring, RO water in the quantities needed is an expensive proposition. The process of reverse osmosis is also very wasteful of water itself (though the waste water may help you create a nice bog garden outdoors). There is some caution needed, if you do not use RO water, especially if your water distribution company relies on several sources of water. The quality of these waters, chemistry-wise, can be very different. You would need to watch that, and adjust your formula that you use to create marine water to adjust for the changes. I cannot really speak to the bioload of a marine tank, but, generally, it needs to be lighter than a FW tank from what I have read and seen. The cycle, with the live sand, will probably be in the 4-8 week range, a lot of the critters in the sand will initially die off first, and the others will need to repopulate to bring things back into balance. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high You're right; they are available online but not instore. I'll check and see if the LFS has them; if they do I can get over there tomorrow. I do want to do the ammonia addition to make sure things are cycling correctly. But if the live sand/rock isn't doing the trick won't I need critters in there anyway? On the baseline for tap - am I understanding correctly that I use a fresh water kit to test it straight out of the tap (and again at 24, 48 hrs), and also mix some up with salt and do baseline with it? My de-chlor product is "water-rite" - says removes chlorine, chloramine and adjusts pH. It does not list ingredients. I think I will be better off doing water changes weekly - it will be easier to be consistent. I didn't see any sign of an RO hookup at the LFS so I will either need to set up something here (pointers??) or buy bottled. Should I test daily "forever" or just while I'm getting things set up and populated? I have not found anything that discusses bioload for salt water - seems like when I had fresh there was an inches-per-gallon ratio. How much impact does the live sand have? They had to order the color I'm using so I won't finish with the hardscaping for another week or two when it arrives. Also, the article about using ammonia suggests a 6-8 week cycle (for FW obviously). When I've "popped" a tank with fish it has taken several weeks, and that is what the LFS suggested the sand/rock would produce. You guys are great! Thanks for all the help. Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48277	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

You may find that the price is nearly doubled over the Walmart.com price so don't get shocked when you see what other stores might be charging for the kit. Correct, if for some reason your live sand isn't "alive" with all of the microscopic (and sometimes not so microscopic) critters, then you would have to dose with ammonia to get the cycling going and it could take several weeks to get your nitrogen cycle going completely. This is called "Fishless Cycling" where we manually dose a tank with ammonia to simulate the ammonia that would be put out by fish/critters, in order to feed the nitrifying bacteria colonies until they have grown large enough to handle a full bioload which would be 3 to 5 ppm of ammonia per day. In fact, if it was me, I would do this regardless since nitrifying bacteria only grow enough to handle the bioload in a tank so the colonies you may have would only be enough to handle the ammonia being created by your live sand so when you add fish/critters, you could see what we call a mini-cycle where you get a small bump in ammonia/nitrite while the nitrifying bacteria colonies grow larger to handle the added bioload. By manually dosing the tank with ammonia, you would be growing them larger ahead of time and then when you are ready to add your fish/critters, you would stop dosing the ammonia and do a partial water change and then add your fish/critters. There is also a product called Dr. Tim's One And Only (the SW version) that has the correct live nitrifying bacteria and you can dose your tank with Dr. Tim's product and it will get your cycle going in a day or so. Dr. Tim is actually a member of this group and you can read about him and his products here, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com From what I have seen online, the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and Saltwater Master Test Kit are identical except the FW kit also includes a low pH kit, which you will not need for your SW tank but maybe you know a FW tank keeper that could use the low pH stuff. The rest of your understanding is correct about doing the baseline testing. Test your tap water in one container and then your SW mix in another container to see what might be happening once the water is out of the tap. This will give you a baseline of what is going to happen to the water once it's in your tank so you will know if/why there are any fluctuations/changes after the water is added to your tank during a PWC. I DO NOT like that your dechlor product "adjusts pH", especially without knowing what the chemical ingredients are. Does it say "adjusts the pH up" or just "adjusts pH"? If it's designed to adjust it up, then it's probably just some kind of buffer up chemical, maybe just sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or some other simple chemical for buffering up water but without knowing more information, it's hard to say. I personally DO NOT like using these kinds of chemicals and if I was going to adjust my pH, I would rather use chemicals that I know exactly what they are and use measured amounts for achieving the changes that I might need. I believe your Salt Mix should bring your pH to the proper level and this is something you have control over... instead of an unknown chemical in a bottle. In the future, try to buy ONLY single purpose chemicals in a bottle except that your basic dechlor can be designed to treat chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals. Try to avoid dechlor products that also purport to do other things. There are many out there that claim to stress-this or slime-that or buffer-this or stabilize-that and I think those should be avoided since most of these products do not disclose what the heck is in them and many folks add these products indiscriminately and may be turning their tanks into chemical waste dumps without even realizing it. Well, if you can find out what your tap water is known to contain... and if it's really bad, that will help to guide you as to whether you get your own RO filter system. They're not cheap to buy or to maintain so many folks try to avoid going the RO route but many folks also find that they have to use RO water. As far as your testing, I would test daily in the beginning until you see that things are stabile, especially while you are still unsure of your cycling status. This may take a week or two or more. Once you see things have stabilized and whenever you dose with ammonia, it cycles properly (to nitrite and then to nitrate), then after you start to add your first fish/critters, you can test daily for the first few days to a week to make sure there is no mini-cycle caused by the addition of the fish/critters. There shouldn't be but only testing will show you for certainty. Once your tank is set up and running, you will find that you will start testing weekly and then the more comfortable and knowledgeable you become about your tank, you will decrease testing but it's still good to test it at least monthly and keep a log so you can compare and feel better knowing that things are remaining stabile and as planned. BTW, I have a blog article listing free and/or paid software or spreadsheets for keeping your log on your computer. That "inches per gallon" thing, which I call the "inches per gallon fish-killing rule" is NOT a good guideline for anything, although it does work for small freshwater fish that stay under 3" as full grown adults. It doesn't work for any other fish. I have a blog article that discusses this in much detail and I have my own set of guidelines for freshwater fish that work based on the expected adult size of fish. I tried to keep it simple but still had to break the fish down into four groups, small, medium, large and extra-large fish, with the number of gallons of water needed for each fish group and the tank sizes needed for each group of fish. I do not know of any saltwater stocking guideline but I do know that saltwater tanks should be stocked at MUCH LOWER stocking levels of comparably sized freshwater tanks. Yes, "Fishless Cycling" with ammonia can take up to 6-8 weeks but can also be achieved much quicker if there are some nitrifying bacteria in a tank already... such as you would have with your live sand. When starting from scratch with no source of N-bacteria, it takes much longer but if there are some N-bacteria introduced, such as with Dr. Tim's products or if you know someone with a healthy SW system and could get some from them, then it's a much quicker process. N-bacteria are capable of doubling their colony size every 24-48 hours so once they get going, their numbers can catch up to the bioload pretty quick. This is what I was talking about with the mini-cycle which might only take a day or two or a week where a start-from-scratch cycle could take 6-8 weeks. What kind of filtration system are you using? I do not recall you mentioning this yet. OK... in your last paragraph, you mention that you do not have your live sand yet, since you said "when it arrives"? If you do not have your live sand yet, then a lot of what we've been discussing would be moot at this point but would still be information you can use once you get your live sand. Let us know. BTW... I'm glad you're here and I hope you stick around for a long time. We've had SW tank keepers come and go over the years but do not get nearly as much posting about SW tanks as we would like. Hopefully, your posting will get some of the other SW members to come out of the woodwork and get involved again. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high You're right; they are available online but not instore. I'll check and see if the LFS has them; if they do I can get over there tomorrow. I do want to do the ammonia addition to make sure things are cycling correctly. But if the live sand/rock isn't doing the trick won't I need critters in there anyway? On the baseline for tap - am I understanding correctly that I use a fresh water kit to test it straight out of the tap (and again at 24, 48 hrs), and also mix some up with salt and do baseline with it? My de-chlor product is "water-rite" - says removes chlorine, chloramine and adjusts pH. It does not list ingredients. I think I will be better off doing water changes weekly - it will be easier to be consistent. I didn't see any sign of an RO hookup at the LFS so I will either need to set up something here (pointers??) or buy bottled. Should I test daily "forever" or just while I'm getting things set up and populated? I have not found anything that discusses bioload for salt water - seems like when I had fresh there was an inches-per-gallon ratio. How much impact does the live sand have? They had to order the color I'm using so I won't finish with the hardscaping for another week or two when it arrives. Also, the article about using ammonia suggests a 6-8 week cycle (for FW obviously). When I've "popped" a tank with fish it has taken several weeks, and that is what the LFS suggested the sand/rock would produce. You guys are great! Thanks for all the help. Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48278	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

The "live sand" is actually alive, usually harvested right from the ocean but possibly grown in manufacturing facilities nowadays, with all kinds of microscopic and sometimes not-so-microscopic critters that are putting out their own ammonia, etc., to get the cycling started. See my previous post from a minute or two ago for more details. SW does have nitrifying bacteria also but they are a slightly different strain, if I'm not mistaken, from what I've read in Dr. Tim's published studies. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH too high I've never set up a saltwater tank, but I don't understand how the sand can do a complete cycle without adding any ammonia to start the cycle. Doesn't saltwater have the same type of cycle as freshwater just different creatures that eat the ammonia/nitrite/and nitrates? If that's the case it seems like while the sand is "doing it's thing" you should have to add ammonia every day just like with fishless cycling a freshwater tank? Amber Janet224@... wrote: > > You're right; they are available online but not instore. I'll check > and see if the LFS has them; if they do I can get over there tomorrow. > I do want to do the ammonia addition to make sure things are cycling correctly. > But if the live sand/rock isn't doing the trick won't I need critters > in there anyway? > > On the baseline for tap - am I understanding correctly that I use a > fresh water kit to test it straight out of the tap (and again at 24, > 48 hrs), and also mix some up with salt and do baseline with it? > > My de-chlor product is "water-rite" - says removes chlorine, > chloramine and adjusts pH. It does not list ingredients. > > I think I will be better off doing water changes weekly - it will be > easier to be consistent. I didn't see any sign of an RO hookup at the > LFS so I will either need to set up something here (pointers??) or buy > bottled. Should I test daily "forever" or just while I'm getting > things set up and populated? > > I have not found anything that discusses bioload for salt water - > seems like when I had fresh there was an inches-per-gallon ratio. > > How much impact does the live sand have? They had to order the color > I'm using so I won't finish with the hardscaping for another week or > two when it arrives. Also, the article about using ammonia suggests a > 6-8 week cycle (for FW obviously). When I've "popped" a tank with fish > it has taken several weeks, and that is what the LFS suggested the > sand/rock would produce. > > You guys are great! Thanks for all the help. > > Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48279	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

I think she was talking about the "animals" being actually saltwater animals like microscopic and not-so-microscopic critters, not just the N-bacteria. Live sand, presuming it's still alive when you get it, is kind of like adding cycled filter media to the reservoir of a FW tank to cycle the tank. Of course, with a FW tank, if there are no fish in the tank, the N-bacteria in the cycled media would start to die off but with live sand, the living critters in the sand continue to put out ammonia all the time which keeps it cycled. I still think either dosing with ammonia or using a product like Dr. Tim's One And Only would be best prior to adding more fish/critters to the tank to avoid the probability of a mini-cycle. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] pH too high Yes I understand that bit, but what STARTS this cycle? Normally the "animals" live in your freshwater as well, but they don't start a cycle without feeding them (in this case adding ammonia every day), shouldn't you have to feed the live sand? Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Amber, > > If the sand is live sand it has animals in it and they do the cycle. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 3, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I've never set up a saltwater tank, but I don't understand how the > > sand can do a complete cycle without adding any ammonia to start the > > cycle. > > Doesn't saltwater have the same type of cycle as freshwater just > > different creatures that eat the ammonia/nitrite/and nitrates? > > If that's the case it seems like while the sand is "doing it's thing" > > you should have to add ammonia every day just like with fishless > > cycling a freshwater tank? > > > > Amber > > > > Janet224@... <mailto:Janet224%40farmtel.net> wrote: > >> > >> You're right; they are available online but not instore. I'll check > >> and see if the LFS has them; if they do I can get over there > >> tomorrow. > >> I do > >> want to do the ammonia addition to make sure things are cycling > >> correctly. > >> But if the live sand/rock isn't doing the trick won't I need > >> critters in there anyway? > >> > >> On the baseline for tap - am I understanding correctly that I use a > >> fresh water kit to test it straight out of the tap (and again at > >> 24, 48 hrs), and also mix some up with salt and do baseline with > >> it? > >> > >> My de-chlor product is "water-rite" - says removes chlorine, > >> chloramine and adjusts pH. It does not list ingredients. > >> > >> I think I will be better off doing water changes weekly - it will > >> be easier to be consistent. I didn't see any sign of an RO hookup > >> at the LFS so I will either need to set up something here > >> (pointers??) or buy bottled. Should I test daily "forever" or just > >> while I'm getting things set up and populated? > >> > >> I have not found anything that discusses bioload for salt water - > >> seems like when I had fresh there was an inches-per-gallon ratio. > >> > >> How much impact does the live sand have? They had to order the > >> color I'm using so I won't finish with the hardscaping for another > >> week or two when it arrives. Also, the article about using ammonia > >> suggests a 6-8 week cycle (for FW obviously). When I've "popped" a > >> tank with fish it has taken several weeks, and that is what the LFS > >> suggested the sand/rock would produce. > >> > >> You guys are great! Thanks for all the help. > >> > >> Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48280	From: PrairieSpirit	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: Heterandria formosa available NC

I would be more than happy to pay for Priority mail. Your right I use priority mail allot, and it is never over $8.00 for small fish like that. If you have any left, let me know and give me youjr paypal email address and I will fire you off the money right away. Ivan White South Dakota USA PrairieSpirit@... From: Lainey Alexander Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heterandria formosa available NC I forgot to mention: I am hoping the receiver can cover the shipping, which would be express mail or priority mail, so maybe six or seven for prio and maybe 15 or so for express, whichever is preferred. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 3, 2010, at 5:37 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I hope it's OK to post this as it is not really an ad? > > I have about fifty or more heterandria formosa babies that need new > homes soon. I don't want any money for them, and I would be willing > to ship since these fish are so hardy. > > They are AKA least killifish, dwarf livebearer, mosquitofish, etc etc. > > I will have them, basically, from now on:) > > These are some of my favorite fish ever - they are very mellow and > yet cheery. Great eaters, not delicate, small, they don't eat their > babies... > > I have pictures available but am not able to load them onto the group > photo section for some reason. To see the tank I think there are > three pictures in new photos from a while ago, or here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2049115566/pic/ > list > > If anyone is interested in these fish please contact me. > > Thank you, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48281	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

I found some ammonia today but it says it has a surfactant in it. Does that count as "pure"? I have 25# of live sand, they said it would be enough but I want more to do more of a "hill" on the base. I also have about 15# of live rock. I will only be adding rock if I see a really interestingly shaped piece. But I do want to add some "terrascaping"... :) Its the "presuming it is still alive" part that worries me. I have already created a spreadsheet for recording results but will look at yours - there is always room for improvement and I do love my spreadsheets. Thanks for extending the welcome - I was starting to wonder if I was being a bit of a PITA to a group mainly FW. Its nice to feel welcome even if I am "different"... :) Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48282	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Brine shrimp problem

My brine shrimp hatchery conked out and I'm not sure why. Suddenly the eggs are falling to the floor and not hatching, even though I am doing everything the same way I have always done it with success. Could my bottle of eggs/cysts have somehow expired? I am using San Francisco brand. I have the hatchery in the basement where it is fairly cool but I suppose it could be warmer now than in the winter. Does anyone know why this would happen? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48283	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

NO... surfactants is just a fancy word for sudsy soapy stuff, which is a NO-NO. We use to be able to buy plain ammonia (not pure... pure is very dangerous... plain ammonia is actually around 10% ammonia hydroxide, 90% water) at our grocery stores but nowadays all they sell is different scents even in the non-sudsy type. The ONLY place I know of, for certainty, is Ace Hardware's private label brand, but from all I've read in the many forums on the net, most mom/pop or smaller type hardware stores like True Value, etc., should sell plain ammonia also. The only ingredients it should have is Ammonia Hydroxide 10% (or more or less of a %) and water.... NO surfactants, soaps, dyes, scents, etc. Here's the link to Ace Hardware's online page on their product, but they only sell it by the case online, whereas the stores sell individual bottles. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1307957 It looks like they have gone up on their price to around $2.00+ a bottle now. Hopefully all of your sand and rock is still "live" but testing from day one, with an accurate test kit would be the only way to know... but then dosing with some plain ammonia, once you get it, and then testing the water to see that the ammonia has converted to nitrates... and eventually the live rock and deep sand bed will actually convert the nitrates as well so your nitrate levels stay low, at least that's the way it's suppose to work from all my reading on the topic. BTW, once you get the plain ammonia, you can add just 1 drops per gallon, which should raise your ammonia level to less than 1.0ppm and *presuming* your live sand and rock are still *live*, it should convert this low amount of ammonia within a couple of hours and certainly within 24 hours. Once it has converted the ammonia back down to the 0.0ppm level, you can dose it again to 1.0ppm and test it to see how fast it's converting. I would probably test it every couple of hours on the 2nd dose to see how fast it's getting it back to 0.0ppm. You could continue the 1 drop per gallon on a daily basis after that while your cycling as this will build up your nitrifying bacteria colony to handle more than just the bioload of the live sand and rock so you will have enough N-bacteria to handle your initial fish/critters that you add. You can also keep an eye on your nitrate levels during these first few weeks of adding ammonia to make sure that is not rising very much either. You didn't mention if you have a filter system on the tank yet. I'm guessing you at least have powerheads running but do you have any kind of filter system, protein skimmer, etc., running as well? It's OK if your a PITA, as long as your not a PeTA... lol I'm still waiting on some of the other SW tank keepers to chime in. Have you had a chance to check out the free online Reefkeeping Magazine? I was reading through the latest issue and I saw that every issue has a column called "Newbie's Corner" so it might be a good idea to read back over a lot of those columns in the archives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high I found some ammonia today but it says it has a surfactant in it. Does that count as "pure"? I have 25# of live sand, they said it would be enough but I want more to do more of a "hill" on the base. I also have about 15# of live rock. I will only be adding rock if I see a really interestingly shaped piece. But I do want to add some "terrascaping"... :) Its the "presuming it is still alive" part that worries me. I have already created a spreadsheet for recording results but will look at yours - there is always room for improvement and I do love my spreadsheets. Thanks for extending the welcome - I was starting to wonder if I was being a bit of a PITA to a group mainly FW. Its nice to feel welcome even if I am "different"... :) Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48284	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

Yeah, I figured surfactant was a bad thing. I manage a farm store and its a common additive to make chemicals stick to whatever you are spraying; they also keep the chemical suspended in the solution. OK, I will keep looking. There is an ACE here but I couldn't get to it today. I have a hookover filter rated for 50 gallons; i am waiting for a canister which is a gift from my family who own/run a LFS which is unfortunately not so local for me... could be a couple of weeks before it arrives. Existing family only knows about FW - Dad was the SW expert but he died from a stroke years ago. My LFS said the hook over was suficient, but i'm losing confidence in their expertise fast! OK, its pretty much lost. :( I sure am glad you guys are here. Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48285	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/3/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

Does your LFS call it a "hookover" filter or did you make up that name on your own? ;-) The industry *tried* to call them "Power Filters" but most hobbyists call them HOB's (Hang On Back) although HOT (Hang On Tank) was occasionally used but Marineland makes a canister filter hybrid with HOT as part of it's name so I think the HOT acronym kind of dropped out of use except for referring to that one filter system... at least for me. The HOB *may* have been enough as long as you supplemented it with a couple of powerheads. I'm pretty sure the conventional wisdom in the SW hobby is trending towards having a filter system, THAT SHOULD BE CLEANED FREQUENTLY TO KEEP IT FROM BECOMING A NITRATE FACTORY, but more so in having multiple powerheads to keep the water moving around in several directions, especially with a reef tank but also with live rock to keep detritus from building up on the coral/rock. Your filter should be cleaned (see my blog article on "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning...") at least weekly to remove the detritus while minimizing harm to your nitrifying bacteria colonies but if you see your nitrates becoming an issue, you may have to clean it more frequently. This is usually related to your bioload but can also become an issue with over feeding. Each tank is different to a degree and your water testing will help guide you as to the proper maintenance schedule for your tank and as the fish grow or as you add more fish, the maintenance schedule will have to be increased accordingly. I'm glad I didn't pick on LFS' or the info given from many pet stores or LFS' since your family owns one but since you brought it up about your local LFS, yes, unfortunately, so many LFS and/or pet stores know very little about keeping fish alive and thriving long term. Most of them or their employees have very little experience in keeping fish as a hobby. When one or dozens of their fish get sick and/or die, they consider it a cost of doing business but for us hobbyists, we strive to not have any fish health issues or deaths. They look at keeping their fish alive long enough to sell them and get the next batch in where we hobbyists should be striving to keep our fish alive and thriving for the years or even decades that they are supposed to live. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high Yeah, I figured surfactant was a bad thing. I manage a farm store and its a common additive to make chemicals stick to whatever you are spraying; they also keep the chemical suspended in the solution. OK, I will keep looking. There is an ACE here but I couldn't get to it today. I have a hookover filter rated for 50 gallons; i am waiting for a canister which is a gift from my family who own/run a LFS which is unfortunately not so local for me... could be a couple of weeks before it arrives. Existing family only knows about FW - Dad was the SW expert but he died from a stroke years ago. My LFS said the hook over was suficient, but i'm losing confidence in their expertise fast! OK, its pretty much lost. :( I sure am glad you guys are here. Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48286	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

That ammonia would not be good. Check the local hardware store if you cannot find it at the grocery store. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high I found some ammonia today but it says it has a surfactant in it. Does that count as "pure"? I have 25# of live sand, they said it would be enough but I want more to do more of a "hill" on the base. I also have about 15# of live rock. I will only be adding rock if I see a really interestingly shaped piece. But I do want to add some "terrascaping"... :) Its the "presuming it is still alive" part that worries me. I have already created a spreadsheet for recording results but will look at yours - there is always room for improvement and I do love my spreadsheets. Thanks for extending the welcome - I was starting to wonder if I was being a bit of a PITA to a group mainly FW. Its nice to feel welcome even if I am "different"... :) Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48287	From: Ray	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem

I notice you haven't given any descrition of your methods or your equipment, but then, perhaps you don't feel the need to as you may feel that the way you're going about hatching BBS is the universal way to go. One other thing though, your word "bottle" (of eggs/cysts)tells volumes. I realize that larger containers would not be very cost-efficient for you, unless you were consistently breeding fish and raising fish fry. These small containers though do not move very fast at any LFS's as. comparatively speaking, there aren't a lot of hobbyists who raise very many occasional spawns. Once a hobbyist advances to this point, and find they now have the abilities to spawn an increasingly larger number of species (and raise an increasingly larger number of spawns), they buy shrimp eggs in much larger containers -- which move much faster off the dealers' shelves. In your situation, you are kind of stuck in between the average hobbyist-maintainer-observer (who does little if any breeding, except for the possible few batches of livebearer fry that appear -- and which are easily raised on powdered flake food) and the hobbyist-breeder who raises more than the few incidental spawns of egg-layer fry requiring this food. As these small bottles and/or vials of brine shrimp eggs remain on the dealer's shelf for more extended periods of time, their viability decreases dramatically. I would guess that you've even allowed your bottle of shrimp eggs to be subjected to room temperatures too, which vastly decreases their shelf life, so -- YES< they may well have expired, if not on the dealer's shelf, than just by your own inactions. For the longest possible shelf-life, brine shrimp eggs need to be at least refrigerated (and larger containers that can't be used up that fast may be stored in the freezer). The foregoing was strike one. Now, let's have a look at your methods. Your brine shrimp eggs falling to the bottom tells me that you are most probably using a hatching tray, into which you just sprinkle some eggs on the surface and they hatch out on their own from there (with no other assist) -- strike two. Some of these tray hatcheries are even separated into dark and light areas, with half of the tray (including that portion's cover) being an opaque plastic and the other half being a clear plastic, supposedly for the purpose of having the BBS migrate towards the light after hatching, facilitating their collection. While this is a good way for the brine shrimp egg producers to sell more of their product, in that there's little muss & fuss for the hobbyist, it is by far the least efficient way to hatch BBS. The best, and most accepted way to promote adequate batches of newly hatched BBS is to aerate it heavily in a container. Obviously, if your brine shrimp eggs are falling to the floor (suddenly or not), they can't be receiving any aeration -- or if they are, they are not receiving aeration as from a single bottom-most point. There are brine shrimp hatchers on the market, greatly improved over the hatching trays, and designed for the needed maximum hatch rates allowed from the eggs instead of just relying on the wasteful tray hatchers which may give a hatch rate of perhaps 15% to 20% (for good eggs well within the expiration date) as the best scenario. These more efficient brine shrimp hatchers are nothing more than inverted heavy sheet-plastic cones into which are hung on a convenient post and which have an airstone at the very bottom. Being cone-shaped, the eggs are kept in suspension as the falling eggs are constantly recirculated up into the water column by the centrally located airstone. There are other similar hatchers having a valve at the bottom to facilitate collecting of the newly hatched BBS, which resembles an inverted 2-liter soda bottle -- or you could make one yourself using such a container, AND an airstone. You would need a shelf to support these containers though, but that's a simple project. Just a personal preference, I find that wide-mouth gallon jars, such as what pickles or mayonnaise come in, placed on a shelf having a circular cut out slightly smaller than their diameter, to support and allow the tipping of them on an angle, to work out the best -- with a length of rigid air tubing (no airstone) extended to the bottom. Seen by this, brine shrimp eggs are best hatched in continous suspension, whereby an air source maintains this constant state -- and this air flow rate can (should) be vigerous enough not to allow any eggs to fall to the bottom -- where they would suffocate each other if they where allowed to pile up. And, strike three: Couldn't help but notice you have your brine shrimp hatchery in the basement -- "where it is fairly COOL." (Although maybe warmer now). Cool temperatures will NEVER promote good hatches of BBS -- not in the best of circumstances. Brine shrimp need warmth to hatch out at any kind of decent hatch rate, and should be maintained as near to 80 o as can be made possible. At this temperature, they not only will be seen to hatch out at the highest possible rate, but will hatch out in about 24 hours. Slightly cooler temperatures may be used, such as 78 o, but you'll see the hatch time extended to nearer 30 or even 36 hours, depending on the brand and source. An incandescent light bulb may be placed near the hatching jar to help maintain the temperature, and which will serve to attract all the newly hatched BBS to that location where it's placed to make it very easy to harvest the BBS after the airline is temporarily removed. As BBS has a very limited life-span (unless plans are made to feed and raise them), any excess hatch that cannot be fed to your fry may be stored in the fridge in a brine solution, which will extend their life span until they can be used up. This "chilling" will not give them Ich, nor will it promote it in you fish when they eat it < g >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > My brine shrimp hatchery conked out and I'm not sure why. Suddenly > the eggs are falling to the floor and not hatching, even though I am > doing everything the same way I have always done it with success. > Could my bottle of eggs/cysts have somehow expired? I am using San > Francisco brand. > > I have the hatchery in the basement where it is fairly cool but I > suppose it could be warmer now than in the winter. > > Does anyone know why this would happen? > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48288	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

Plain good old fashion ammonia?   Sure!  Parson's!  They make several types but the clear is the one you want and can purchased in any food store here in Northeastern PA., about a buck fifty a quart.   Bill --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 1:31 AM NO... surfactants is just a fancy word for sudsy soapy stuff, which is a NO-NO.  We use to be able to buy plain ammonia (not pure... pure is very dangerous... plain ammonia is actually around 10% ammonia hydroxide, 90% water) at our grocery stores but nowadays all they sell is different scents even in the non-sudsy type.  The ONLY place I know of, for certainty, is Ace Hardware's private label brand, but from all I've read in the many forums on the net, most mom/pop or smaller type hardware stores like True Value, etc., should sell plain ammonia also.  The only ingredients it should have is Ammonia Hydroxide 10% (or more or less of a %) and water.... NO surfactants, soaps, dyes, scents, etc.  Here's the link to Ace Hardware's online page on their product, but they only sell it by the case online, whereas the stores sell individual bottles. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1307957 It looks like they have gone up on their price to around $2.00+ a bottle now. Hopefully all of your sand and rock is still "live" but testing from day one, with an accurate test kit would be the only way to know... but then dosing with some plain ammonia, once you get it, and then testing the water to see that the ammonia has converted to nitrates... and eventually the live rock and deep sand bed will actually convert the nitrates as well so your nitrate levels stay low, at least that's the way it's suppose to work from all my reading on the topic. BTW, once you get the plain ammonia, you can add just 1 drops per gallon, which should raise your ammonia level to less than 1.0ppm and *presuming* your live sand and rock are still *live*, it should convert this low amount of ammonia within a couple of hours and certainly within 24 hours.   Once it has converted the ammonia back down to the 0.0ppm level, you can dose it again to 1.0ppm and test it to see how fast it's converting.  I would probably test it every couple of hours on the 2nd dose to see how fast it's getting it back to 0.0ppm.  You could continue the 1 drop per gallon on a daily basis after that while your cycling as this will build up your nitrifying bacteria colony to handle more than just the bioload of the live sand and rock so you will have enough N-bacteria to handle your initial fish/critters that you add.  You can also keep an eye on your nitrate levels during these first few weeks of adding ammonia to make sure that is not rising very much either. You didn't mention if you have a filter system on the tank yet.  I'm guessing you at least have powerheads running but do you have any kind of filter system, protein skimmer, etc., running as well? It's OK if your a PITA, as long as your not a PeTA... lol  I'm still waiting on some of the other SW tank keepers to chime in. Have you had a chance to check out the free online Reefkeeping Magazine?  I was reading through the latest issue and I saw that every issue has a column called "Newbie's Corner" so it might be a good idea to read back over a lot of those columns in the archives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high I found some ammonia today but it says it has a surfactant in it.  Does that count as "pure"?  I have 25# of live sand, they said it would be enough but I want more to do more of a "hill" on the base.  I also have about 15# of live rock.  I will only be adding rock if I see a really interestingly shaped piece.  But I do want to add some "terrascaping"... :)  Its the "presuming it is still alive" part that worries me. I have already created a spreadsheet for recording results but will look at yours - there is always room for improvement and I do love my spreadsheets. Thanks for extending the welcome - I was starting to wonder if I was being a bit of a PITA to a group mainly FW.  Its nice to feel welcome even if I am "different"...  :) Janet ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48289	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem

Thanks, Ray. I think I am doing the hatchery correctly with an inverted cone and aeration through an air pump and airline. Back when I hatched my rams I sent pictures in to my photo page, and I believe my system met with your approval:) I can't get the airline to stay at the bottom (floor) of the cone so I'll work on that. I have a 60 watt bulb facing the hatchery so the temps of the water stay warm. I just wondered if the summer temps in the basement might be too warm as I have heard brine eggs won't hatch at very high temps. But I think it's the eggs being too old as you say. I never knew they needed refrigeration. I will go buy new ones today and refrigerate right away. Thanks for all this information! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 4, 2010, at 7:26 AM, Ray wrote: > I notice you haven't given any descrition of your methods or your > equipment, but then, perhaps you don't feel the need to as you may > feel that the way you're going about hatching BBS is the universal > way to go. One other thing though, your word "bottle" (of eggs/ > cysts)tells volumes. > > I realize that larger containers would not be very cost-efficient > for you, unless you were consistently breeding fish and raising > fish fry. These small containers though do not move very fast at > any LFS's as. comparatively speaking, there aren't a lot of > hobbyists who raise very many occasional spawns. Once a hobbyist > advances to this point, and find they now have the abilities to > spawn an increasingly larger number of species (and raise an > increasingly larger number of spawns), they buy shrimp eggs in much > larger containers -- which move much faster off the dealers' shelves. > > In your situation, you are kind of stuck in between the average > hobbyist-maintainer-observer (who does little if any breeding, > except for the possible few batches of livebearer fry that appear > -- and which are easily raised on powdered flake food) and the > hobbyist-breeder who raises more than the few incidental spawns of > egg-layer fry requiring this food. As these small bottles and/or > vials of brine shrimp eggs remain on the dealer's shelf for more > extended periods of time, their viability decreases dramatically. I > would guess that you've even allowed your bottle of shrimp eggs to > be subjected to room temperatures too, which vastly decreases their > shelf life, so -- YES< they may well have expired, if not on the > dealer's shelf, than just by your own inactions. For the longest > possible shelf-life, brine shrimp eggs need to be at least > refrigerated (and larger containers that can't be used up that fast > may be stored in the freezer). > > The foregoing was strike one. Now, let's have a look at your > methods. Your brine shrimp eggs falling to the bottom tells me that > you are most probably using a hatching tray, into which you just > sprinkle some eggs on the surface and they hatch out on their own > from there (with no other assist) -- strike two. Some of these tray > hatcheries are even separated into dark and light areas, with half > of the tray (including that portion's cover) being an opaque > plastic and the other half being a clear plastic, supposedly for > the purpose of having the BBS migrate towards the light after > hatching, facilitating their collection. While this is a good way > for the brine shrimp egg producers to sell more of their product, > in that there's little muss & fuss for the hobbyist, it is by far > the least efficient way to hatch BBS. > > The best, and most accepted way to promote adequate batches of > newly hatched BBS is to aerate it heavily in a container. > Obviously, if your brine shrimp eggs are falling to the floor > (suddenly or not), they can't be receiving any aeration -- or if > they are, they are not receiving aeration as from a single bottom- > most point. There are brine shrimp hatchers on the market, greatly > improved over the hatching trays, and designed for the needed > maximum hatch rates allowed from the eggs instead of just relying > on the wasteful tray hatchers which may give a hatch rate of > perhaps 15% to 20% (for good eggs well within the expiration date) > as the best scenario. > > These more efficient brine shrimp hatchers are nothing more than > inverted heavy sheet-plastic cones into which are hung on a > convenient post and which have an airstone at the very bottom. > Being cone-shaped, the eggs are kept in suspension as the falling > eggs are constantly recirculated up into the water column by the > centrally located airstone. There are other similar hatchers having > a valve at the bottom to facilitate collecting of the newly hatched > BBS, which resembles an inverted 2-liter soda bottle -- or you > could make one yourself using such a container, AND an airstone. > You would need a shelf to support these containers though, but > that's a simple project. Just a personal preference, I find that > wide-mouth gallon jars, such as what pickles or mayonnaise come in, > placed on a shelf having a circular cut out slightly smaller than > their diameter, to support and allow the tipping of them on an > angle, to work out the best -- with a length of rigid air tubing > (no airstone) extended to the bottom. > > Seen by this, brine shrimp eggs are best hatched in continous > suspension, whereby an air source maintains this constant state -- > and this air flow rate can (should) be vigerous enough not to allow > any eggs to fall to the bottom -- where they would suffocate each > other if they where allowed to pile up. > > And, strike three: Couldn't help but notice you have your brine > shrimp hatchery in the basement -- "where it is fairly > COOL." (Although maybe warmer now). Cool temperatures will NEVER > promote good hatches of BBS -- not in the best of circumstances. > Brine shrimp need warmth to hatch out at any kind of decent hatch > rate, and should be maintained as near to 80 o as can be made > possible. At this temperature, they not only will be seen to hatch > out at the highest possible rate, but will hatch out in about 24 > hours. Slightly cooler temperatures may be used, such as 78 o, but > you'll see the hatch time extended to nearer 30 or even 36 hours, > depending on the brand and source. An incandescent light bulb may > be placed near the hatching jar to help maintain the temperature, > and which will serve to attract all the newly hatched BBS to that > location where it's placed to make it very easy to harvest the BBS > after the airline is temporarily removed. As BBS has a very limited > life-span (unless plans are made to feed and raise them), any > excess hatch that cannot be fed to your fry may be stored in the > fridge in a brine solution, which will extend their life span until > they can be used up. This "chilling" will not give them Ich, nor > will it promote it in you fish when they eat it < g >. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > My brine shrimp hatchery conked out and I'm not sure why. Suddenly > > the eggs are falling to the floor and not hatching, even though I am > > doing everything the same way I have always done it with success. > > Could my bottle of eggs/cysts have somehow expired? I am using San > > Francisco brand. > > > > I have the hatchery in the basement where it is fairly cool but I > > suppose it could be warmer now than in the winter. > > > > Does anyone know why this would happen? > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48290	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem

use a cloths pin or large paper clip to hold line into the bottom of bottle. A better idea is to attach the air stone to 3/16 rigid line tubing, this is the best and I've found that it allows the stone to stay put on the bottom or neck of the bottle! Bill --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Brine shrimp problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 11:30 AM > Thanks, Ray. > > I think I am doing the hatchery correctly with an inverted > cone and  > aeration through an air pump and airline. Back when I > hatched my rams  > I sent pictures in to my photo page, and I believe my > system met with  > your approval:)  I can't get the airline to stay at > the bottom  > (floor) of the cone so I'll work on that. I have a 60 watt > bulb  > facing the hatchery so the temps of the water stay warm. I > just  > wondered if the summer temps in the basement might be too > warm as I  > have heard brine eggs won't hatch at very high temps. But I > think  > it's the eggs being too old as you say. I never knew they > needed  > refrigeration. I will go buy new ones today and refrigerate > right away. > > Thanks for all this information! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 4, 2010, at 7:26 AM, Ray wrote: > > > I notice you haven't given any descrition of your > methods or your  > > equipment, but then, perhaps you don't feel the need > to as you may  > > feel that the way you're going about hatching BBS is > the universal  > > way to go. One other thing though, your word "bottle" > (of eggs/ > > cysts)tells volumes. > > > > I realize that larger containers would not be very > cost-efficient  > > for you, unless you were consistently breeding fish > and raising  > > fish fry. These small containers though do not move > very fast at  > > any LFS's as. comparatively speaking, there aren't a > lot of  > > hobbyists who raise very many occasional spawns. Once > a hobbyist  > > advances to this point, and find they now have the > abilities to  > > spawn an increasingly larger number of species (and > raise an  > > increasingly larger number of spawns), they buy shrimp > eggs in much  > > larger containers -- which move much faster off the > dealers' shelves. > > > > In your situation, you are kind of stuck in between > the average  > > hobbyist-maintainer-observer (who does little if any > breeding,  > > except for the possible few batches of livebearer fry > that appear  > > -- and which are easily raised on powdered flake food) > and the  > > hobbyist-breeder who raises more than the few > incidental spawns of  > > egg-layer fry requiring this food. As these small > bottles and/or  > > vials of brine shrimp eggs remain on the dealer's > shelf for more  > > extended periods of time, their viability decreases > dramatically. I  > > would guess that you've even allowed your bottle of > shrimp eggs to  > > be subjected to room temperatures too, which vastly > decreases their  > > shelf life, so -- YES< they may well have expired, > if not on the  > > dealer's shelf, than just by your own inactions. For > the longest  > > possible shelf-life, brine shrimp eggs need to be at > least  > > refrigerated (and larger containers that can't be used > up that fast  > > may be stored in the freezer). > > > > The foregoing was strike one. Now, let's have a look > at your  > > methods. Your brine shrimp eggs falling to the bottom > tells me that  > > you are most probably using a hatching tray, into > which you just  > > sprinkle some eggs on the surface and they hatch out > on their own  > > from there (with no other assist) -- strike two. Some > of these tray  > > hatcheries are even separated into dark and light > areas, with half  > > of the tray (including that portion's cover) being an > opaque  > > plastic and the other half being a clear plastic, > supposedly for  > > the purpose of having the BBS migrate towards the > light after  > > hatching, facilitating their collection. While this is > a good way  > > for the brine shrimp egg producers to sell more of > their product,  > > in that there's little muss & fuss for the > hobbyist, it is by far  > > the least efficient way to hatch BBS. > > > > The best, and most accepted way to promote adequate > batches of  > > newly hatched BBS is to aerate it heavily in a > container.  > > Obviously, if your brine shrimp eggs are falling to > the floor  > > (suddenly or not), they can't be receiving any > aeration -- or if  > > they are, they are not receiving aeration as from a > single bottom- > > most point. There are brine shrimp hatchers on the > market, greatly  > > improved over the hatching trays, and designed for the > needed  > > maximum hatch rates allowed from the eggs instead of > just relying  > > on the wasteful tray hatchers which may give a hatch > rate of  > > perhaps 15% to 20% (for good eggs well within the > expiration date)  > > as the best scenario. > > > > These more efficient brine shrimp hatchers are nothing > more than  > > inverted heavy sheet-plastic cones into which are hung > on a  > > convenient post and which have an airstone at the very > bottom.  > > Being cone-shaped, the eggs are kept in suspension as > the falling  > > eggs are constantly recirculated up into the water > column by the  > > centrally located airstone. There are other similar > hatchers having  > > a valve at the bottom to facilitate collecting of the > newly hatched  > > BBS, which resembles an inverted 2-liter soda bottle > -- or you  > > could make one yourself using such a container, AND an > airstone.  > > You would need a shelf to support these containers > though, but  > > that's a simple project. Just a personal preference, I > find that  > > wide-mouth gallon jars, such as what pickles or > mayonnaise come in,  > > placed on a shelf having a circular cut out slightly > smaller than  > > their diameter, to support and allow the tipping of > them on an  > > angle, to work out the best -- with a length of rigid > air tubing  > > (no airstone) extended to the bottom. > > > > Seen by this, brine shrimp eggs are best hatched in > continous  > > suspension, whereby an air source maintains this > constant state --  > > and this air flow rate can (should) be vigerous enough > not to allow  > > any eggs to fall to the bottom -- where they would > suffocate each  > > other if they where allowed to pile up. > > > > And, strike three: Couldn't help but notice you have > your brine  > > shrimp hatchery in the basement -- "where it is > fairly  > > COOL." (Although maybe warmer now). Cool temperatures > will NEVER  > > promote good hatches of BBS -- not in the best of > circumstances.  > > Brine shrimp need warmth to hatch out at any kind of > decent hatch  > > rate, and should be maintained as near to 80 o as can > be made  > > possible. At this temperature, they not only will be > seen to hatch  > > out at the highest possible rate, but will hatch out > in about 24  > > hours. Slightly cooler temperatures may be used, such > as 78 o, but  > > you'll see the hatch time extended to nearer 30 or > even 36 hours,  > > depending on the brand and source. An incandescent > light bulb may  > > be placed near the hatching jar to help maintain the > temperature,  > > and which will serve to attract all the newly hatched > BBS to that  > > location where it's placed to make it very easy to > harvest the BBS  > > after the airline is temporarily removed. As BBS has a > very limited  > > life-span (unless plans are made to feed and raise > them), any  > > excess hatch that cannot be fed to your fry may be > stored in the  > > fridge in a brine solution, which will extend their > life span until  > > they can be used up. This "chilling" will not give > them Ich, nor  > > will it promote it in you fish when they eat it < g > >.  Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > Lainey Alexander  > > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > > > My brine shrimp hatchery conked out and I'm not > sure why. Suddenly > > > the eggs are falling to the floor and not > hatching, even though I am > > > doing everything the same way I have always done > it with success. > > > Could my bottle of eggs/cysts have somehow > expired? I am using San > > > Francisco brand. > > > > > > I have the hatchery in the basement where it is > fairly cool but I > > > suppose it could be warmer now than in the > winter. > > > > > > Does anyone know why this would happen? > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48291	From: William M	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem

Another easy way to warm the eggs (especially if you have several batches of eggs to hatch) is to use a small tank to keep your bottles in such as a ten gallon tank and put water in it with a heater to keep the temp of the water in the tank and jars warm enough to hatch the eggs. Just my two cents worth. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > I notice you haven't given any descrition of your methods or your equipment, but then, perhaps you don't feel the need to as you may feel that the way you're going about hatching BBS is the universal way to go. One other thing though, your word "bottle" (of eggs/cysts)tells volumes. > > I realize that larger containers would not be very cost-efficient for you, unless you were consistently breeding fish and raising fish fry. These small containers though do not move very fast at any LFS's as. comparatively speaking, there aren't a lot of hobbyists who raise very many occasional spawns. Once a hobbyist advances to this point, and find they now have the abilities to spawn an increasingly larger number of species (and raise an increasingly larger number of spawns), they buy shrimp eggs in much larger containers -- which move much faster off the dealers' shelves. > > In your situation, you are kind of stuck in between the average hobbyist-maintainer-observer (who does little if any breeding, except for the possible few batches of livebearer fry that appear -- and which are easily raised on powdered flake food) and the hobbyist-breeder who raises more than the few incidental spawns of egg-layer fry requiring this food. As these small bottles and/or vials of brine shrimp eggs remain on the dealer's shelf for more extended periods of time, their viability decreases dramatically. I would guess that you've even allowed your bottle of shrimp eggs to be subjected to room temperatures too, which vastly decreases their shelf life, so -- YES< they may well have expired, if not on the dealer's shelf, than just by your own inactions. For the longest possible shelf-life, brine shrimp eggs need to be at least refrigerated (and larger containers that can't be used up that fast may be stored in the freezer). > > The foregoing was strike one. Now, let's have a look at your methods. Your brine shrimp eggs falling to the bottom tells me that you are most probably using a hatching tray, into which you just sprinkle some eggs on the surface and they hatch out on their own from there (with no other assist) -- strike two. Some of these tray hatcheries are even separated into dark and light areas, with half of the tray (including that portion's cover) being an opaque plastic and the other half being a clear plastic, supposedly for the purpose of having the BBS migrate towards the light after hatching, facilitating their collection. While this is a good way for the brine shrimp egg producers to sell more of their product, in that there's little muss & fuss for the hobbyist, it is by far the least efficient way to hatch BBS. > > The best, and most accepted way to promote adequate batches of newly hatched BBS is to aerate it heavily in a container. Obviously, if your brine shrimp eggs are falling to the floor (suddenly or not), they can't be receiving any aeration -- or if they are, they are not receiving aeration as from a single bottom-most point. There are brine shrimp hatchers on the market, greatly improved over the hatching trays, and designed for the needed maximum hatch rates allowed from the eggs instead of just relying on the wasteful tray hatchers which may give a hatch rate of perhaps 15% to 20% (for good eggs well within the expiration date) as the best scenario. > > These more efficient brine shrimp hatchers are nothing more than inverted heavy sheet-plastic cones into which are hung on a convenient post and which have an airstone at the very bottom. Being cone-shaped, the eggs are kept in suspension as the falling eggs are constantly recirculated up into the water column by the centrally located airstone. There are other similar hatchers having a valve at the bottom to facilitate collecting of the newly hatched BBS, which resembles an inverted 2-liter soda bottle -- or you could make one yourself using such a container, AND an airstone. You would need a shelf to support these containers though, but that's a simple project. Just a personal preference, I find that wide-mouth gallon jars, such as what pickles or mayonnaise come in, placed on a shelf having a circular cut out slightly smaller than their diameter, to support and allow the tipping of them on an angle, to work out the best -- with a length of rigid air tubing (no airstone) extended to the bottom. > > Seen by this, brine shrimp eggs are best hatched in continous suspension, whereby an air source maintains this constant state -- and this air flow rate can (should) be vigerous enough not to allow any eggs to fall to the bottom -- where they would suffocate each other if they where allowed to pile up. > > And, strike three: Couldn't help but notice you have your brine shrimp hatchery in the basement -- "where it is fairly COOL." (Although maybe warmer now). Cool temperatures will NEVER promote good hatches of BBS -- not in the best of circumstances. Brine shrimp need warmth to hatch out at any kind of decent hatch rate, and should be maintained as near to 80 o as can be made possible. At this temperature, they not only will be seen to hatch out at the highest possible rate, but will hatch out in about 24 hours. Slightly cooler temperatures may be used, such as 78 o, but you'll see the hatch time extended to nearer 30 or even 36 hours, depending on the brand and source. An incandescent light bulb may be placed near the hatching jar to help maintain the temperature, and which will serve to attract all the newly hatched BBS to that location where it's placed to make it very easy to harvest the BBS after the airline is temporarily removed. As BBS has a very limited life-span (unless plans are made to feed and raise them), any excess hatch that cannot be fed to your fry may be stored in the fridge in a brine solution, which will extend their life span until they can be used up. This "chilling" will not give them Ich, nor will it promote it in you fish when they eat it < g >. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > My brine shrimp hatchery conked out and I'm not sure why. Suddenly > > the eggs are falling to the floor and not hatching, even though I am > > doing everything the same way I have always done it with success. > > Could my bottle of eggs/cysts have somehow expired? I am using San > > Francisco brand. > > > > I have the hatchery in the basement where it is fairly cool but I > > suppose it could be warmer now than in the winter. > > > > Does anyone know why this would happen? > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48292	From: Ray	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem

Lainey, With your brine shrimp eggs "falling to the floor," it didn't appear as though you were using an airstone." I had forgotten about your BBS system as it'sd been nearly 6 months since you bred your Rams and needed this equipment. There's never any problem with keeping an airstone at the very bottom of the hatcher if it's on the end of a length of rigid airline tubing which I use with gallon jars, as I mentioned in my previous post in this thread. While I've found that open tubing provides much larger volumes of air to bubble up through the hatcher's water column -- keeping the BBS eggs more readily suspended without the small bubble breakage spraying the brine solution (and eggs) all over the place -- you may still prefer an airstone which has always worked well, provided an adequate volume of air is always ensured to be used. The airstones can easily be attached to the rigid air tubing with a short 2" length of flexible air line tubing. I believe some BBS hatchers come with a length of rigid air line tubing, at least I recall that they use to. I keep mine attached to the gallon glass jars with a clothes pin at the mouth. If you think you're going to breed more fish in the future, you may want to consider buying at least the small 3.5 ounce can rather than the smaller jar (of BBS eggs). Unless you know your LFS dealer as being completely honest in telling you how old his shrimp eggs are, you have no way of knowing -- so they could still have been sitting on his shelf for 6 months before you buy them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Thanks, Ray. > > I think I am doing the hatchery correctly with an inverted cone and > aeration through an air pump and airline. Back when I hatched my rams > I sent pictures in to my photo page, and I believe my system met with > your approval:) I can't get the airline to stay at the bottom > (floor) of the cone so I'll work on that. I have a 60 watt bulb > facing the hatchery so the temps of the water stay warm. I just > wondered if the summer temps in the basement might be too warm as I > have heard brine eggs won't hatch at very high temps. But I think > it's the eggs being too old as you say. I never knew they needed > refrigeration. I will go buy new ones today and refrigerate right away. > > Thanks for all this information! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 4, 2010, at 7:26 AM, Ray wrote: > > > I notice you haven't given any descrition of your methods or your > > equipment, but then, perhaps you don't feel the need to as you may > > feel that the way you're going about hatching BBS is the universal > > way to go. One other thing though, your word "bottle" (of eggs/ > > cysts)tells volumes. > > > > I realize that larger containers would not be very cost-efficient > > for you, unless you were consistently breeding fish and raising > > fish fry. These small containers though do not move very fast at > > any LFS's as. comparatively speaking, there aren't a lot of > > hobbyists who raise very many occasional spawns. Once a hobbyist > > advances to this point, and find they now have the abilities to > > spawn an increasingly larger number of species (and raise an > > increasingly larger number of spawns), they buy shrimp eggs in much > > larger containers -- which move much faster off the dealers' shelves. > > > > In your situation, you are kind of stuck in between the average > > hobbyist-maintainer-observer (who does little if any breeding, > > except for the possible few batches of livebearer fry that appear > > -- and which are easily raised on powdered flake food) and the > > hobbyist-breeder who raises more than the few incidental spawns of > > egg-layer fry requiring this food. As these small bottles and/or > > vials of brine shrimp eggs remain on the dealer's shelf for more > > extended periods of time, their viability decreases dramatically. I > > would guess that you've even allowed your bottle of shrimp eggs to > > be subjected to room temperatures too, which vastly decreases their > > shelf life, so -- YES< they may well have expired, if not on the > > dealer's shelf, than just by your own inactions. For the longest > > possible shelf-life, brine shrimp eggs need to be at least > > refrigerated (and larger containers that can't be used up that fast > > may be stored in the freezer). > > > > The foregoing was strike one. Now, let's have a look at your > > methods. Your brine shrimp eggs falling to the bottom tells me that > > you are most probably using a hatching tray, into which you just > > sprinkle some eggs on the surface and they hatch out on their own > > from there (with no other assist) -- strike two. Some of these tray > > hatcheries are even separated into dark and light areas, with half > > of the tray (including that portion's cover) being an opaque > > plastic and the other half being a clear plastic, supposedly for > > the purpose of having the BBS migrate towards the light after > > hatching, facilitating their collection. While this is a good way > > for the brine shrimp egg producers to sell more of their product, > > in that there's little muss & fuss for the hobbyist, it is by far > > the least efficient way to hatch BBS. > > > > The best, and most accepted way to promote adequate batches of > > newly hatched BBS is to aerate it heavily in a container. > > Obviously, if your brine shrimp eggs are falling to the floor > > (suddenly or not), they can't be receiving any aeration -- or if > > they are, they are not receiving aeration as from a single bottom- > > most point. There are brine shrimp hatchers on the market, greatly > > improved over the hatching trays, and designed for the needed > > maximum hatch rates allowed from the eggs instead of just relying > > on the wasteful tray hatchers which may give a hatch rate of > > perhaps 15% to 20% (for good eggs well within the expiration date) > > as the best scenario. > > > > These more efficient brine shrimp hatchers are nothing more than > > inverted heavy sheet-plastic cones into which are hung on a > > convenient post and which have an airstone at the very bottom. > > Being cone-shaped, the eggs are kept in suspension as the falling > > eggs are constantly recirculated up into the water column by the > > centrally located airstone. There are other similar hatchers having > > a valve at the bottom to facilitate collecting of the newly hatched > > BBS, which resembles an inverted 2-liter soda bottle -- or you > > could make one yourself using such a container, AND an airstone. > > You would need a shelf to support these containers though, but > > that's a simple project. Just a personal preference, I find that > > wide-mouth gallon jars, such as what pickles or mayonnaise come in, > > placed on a shelf having a circular cut out slightly smaller than > > their diameter, to support and allow the tipping of them on an > > angle, to work out the best -- with a length of rigid air tubing > > (no airstone) extended to the bottom. > > > > Seen by this, brine shrimp eggs are best hatched in continous > > suspension, whereby an air source maintains this constant state -- > > and this air flow rate can (should) be vigerous enough not to allow > > any eggs to fall to the bottom -- where they would suffocate each > > other if they where allowed to pile up. > > > > And, strike three: Couldn't help but notice you have your brine > > shrimp hatchery in the basement -- "where it is fairly > > COOL." (Although maybe warmer now). Cool temperatures will NEVER > > promote good hatches of BBS -- not in the best of circumstances. > > Brine shrimp need warmth to hatch out at any kind of decent hatch > > rate, and should be maintained as near to 80 o as can be made > > possible. At this temperature, they not only will be seen to hatch > > out at the highest possible rate, but will hatch out in about 24 > > hours. Slightly cooler temperatures may be used, such as 78 o, but > > you'll see the hatch time extended to nearer 30 or even 36 hours, > > depending on the brand and source. An incandescent light bulb may > > be placed near the hatching jar to help maintain the temperature, > > and which will serve to attract all the newly hatched BBS to that > > location where it's placed to make it very easy to harvest the BBS > > after the airline is temporarily removed. As BBS has a very limited > > life-span (unless plans are made to feed and raise them), any > > excess hatch that cannot be fed to your fry may be stored in the > > fridge in a brine solution, which will extend their life span until > > they can be used up. This "chilling" will not give them Ich, nor > > will it promote it in you fish when they eat it < g >. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > My brine shrimp hatchery conked out and I'm not sure why. Suddenly > > > the eggs are falling to the floor and not hatching, even though I am > > > doing everything the same way I have always done it with success. > > > Could my bottle of eggs/cysts have somehow expired? I am using San > > > Francisco brand. > > > > > > I have the hatchery in the basement where it is fairly cool but I > > > suppose it could be warmer now than in the winter. > > > > > > Does anyone know why this would happen? > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48293	From: jamesjoy000@att.net	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Brine shrimp problem

Hi Lainey It sounds like it is something wrong with the bottle of eggs.??? The expiration should be listed on the card that comes attached to the bottle. The Plankton Culture Manual (by Hoff and Snell) says "optimal" temp for cyst hatching and adult grow out of the SFB strain is 72F... constant temps are best. Long term storage of cysts are best in a cool, dark, dry, place perferably fridge or freezer. joy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > I am using San > Francisco brand. > > I have the hatchery in the basement where it is fairly cool but I > suppose it could be warmer now than in the winter. > > Does anyone know why this would happen? > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48294	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: pH too high

It's hard to find plain Parsons or any other kind of plain ammonia in grocery stores any more. All I ever see is the sudsy and/or lemon scented in the stores nowadays. The hardware stores are the only place I can find the plain ammonia down here. When we had some Delchamp's Stores, they had their PL brand that was plain ammonia but that's been a while since Delchamp's went under down here. None of the other grocery store chains sell plain ammonia down here. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high Plain good old fashion ammonia?   Sure!  Parson's!  They make several types but the clear is the one you want and can purchased in any food store here in Northeastern PA., about a buck fifty a quart.   Bill --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 1:31 AM NO... surfactants is just a fancy word for sudsy soapy stuff, which is a NO-NO.  We use to be able to buy plain ammonia (not pure... pure is very dangerous... plain ammonia is actually around 10% ammonia hydroxide, 90% water) at our grocery stores but nowadays all they sell is different scents even in the non-sudsy type.  The ONLY place I know of, for certainty, is Ace Hardware's private label brand, but from all I've read in the many forums on the net, most mom/pop or smaller type hardware stores like True Value, etc., should sell plain ammonia also.  The only ingredients it should have is Ammonia Hydroxide 10% (or more or less of a %) and water.... NO surfactants, soaps, dyes, scents, etc.  Here's the link to Ace Hardware's online page on their product, but they only sell it by the case online, whereas the stores sell individual bottles. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1307957 It looks like they have gone up on their price to around $2.00+ a bottle now. Hopefully all of your sand and rock is still "live" but testing from day one, with an accurate test kit would be the only way to know... but then dosing with some plain ammonia, once you get it, and then testing the water to see that the ammonia has converted to nitrates... and eventually the live rock and deep sand bed will actually convert the nitrates as well so your nitrate levels stay low, at least that's the way it's suppose to work from all my reading on the topic. BTW, once you get the plain ammonia, you can add just 1 drops per gallon, which should raise your ammonia level to less than 1.0ppm and *presuming* your live sand and rock are still *live*, it should convert this low amount of ammonia within a couple of hours and certainly within 24 hours.   Once it has converted the ammonia back down to the 0.0ppm level, you can dose it again to 1.0ppm and test it to see how fast it's converting.  I would probably test it every couple of hours on the 2nd dose to see how fast it's getting it back to 0.0ppm.  You could continue the 1 drop per gallon on a daily basis after that while your cycling as this will build up your nitrifying bacteria colony to handle more than just the bioload of the live sand and rock so you will have enough N-bacteria to handle your initial fish/critters that you add.  You can also keep an eye on your nitrate levels during these first few weeks of adding ammonia to make sure that is not rising very much either. You didn't mention if you have a filter system on the tank yet.  I'm guessing you at least have powerheads running but do you have any kind of filter system, protein skimmer, etc., running as well? It's OK if your a PITA, as long as your not a PeTA... lol  I'm still waiting on some of the other SW tank keepers to chime in. Have you had a chance to check out the free online Reefkeeping Magazine?  I was reading through the latest issue and I saw that every issue has a column called "Newbie's Corner" so it might be a good idea to read back over a lot of those columns in the archives. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] pH too high I found some ammonia today but it says it has a surfactant in it.  Does that count as "pure"?  I have 25# of live sand, they said it would be enough but I want more to do more of a "hill" on the base.  I also have about 15# of live rock.  I will only be adding rock if I see a really interestingly shaped piece.  But I do want to add some "terrascaping"... :)  Its the "presuming it is still alive" part that worries me. I have already created a spreadsheet for recording results but will look at yours - there is always room for improvement and I do love my spreadsheets. Thanks for extending the welcome - I was starting to wonder if I was being a bit of a PITA to a group mainly FW.  Its nice to feel welcome even if I am "different"...  :) Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48295	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Prior emails archived?

Hey Lenny, Wondering if there is a place that all of the group's old emails are archived? I saved a bunch of emails that I think are gone since my old computer crashed . I would like to go back and get them for my files. Thanks, Steve Biondi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48296	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Prior emails archived?

Well, technically, they are all saved in the group's messages section but you would have to search for the ones you wanted... or better yet, instead of using the Yahoo Group message search feature, available on the Messages page here, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife/messages, you would have better luck in finding your messages if you use a Google Advanced search. Yahoo Group's message search feature has been buggy for months, if not years, and is a known issue with Yahoo and Yahoo keeps saying it's fixed but it's not working 100% of the time. I use Google's advanced search to search a website like Yahoo Groups that do not have their own search feature that works very well, in this case, you would put this URL http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/messages in the field for what site you want to search. I'm pretty sure it works with the "pets" in or not in the URL. I don't type the "pets" in the URL when I use Google's advanced search http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en and it has always worked for me. It's also too bad you weren't using Gmail for your group emails as the Google search engine technology is incorporated within each Gmail account to easily find mail saved in that particular Gmail account. On a side note, since you mentioned losing data, I use Mozy Online Backup for backing up my computers online on a daily or twice daily basis, besides backing them up onto an external HD once a week, but Mozy is automatic and backs up daily or even many times a day depending on how you set it up, so I don't have to worry if I ever lose my data. It's free for 2Gigs of backup or $4.95/mo for unlimited backing up. 2Gigs is a LOT for most people that don't have tons of music or movies on their computers. You can get Mozy here https://mozy.com/?ref=SY4ZSI and you get an extra .5Gigs for a total of 2.5Gigs of backup for free if you sign up under my referral code... or just go to http://www.Mozy.com to get the non-referral free 2.0Gigs. I've been using Mozy for many years and even Beta tested their product when it came out. I guess they still have the referral program but I can't verify that they do. If they do, each time someone signs up for the free service with your own referral code, you also get an extra .5Gigs of free backup. I use a paid subscription on my main computer for unlimited backup but I use the still-free service on my other computers and have around 7Gigs of free backup on one of them and around 4Gigs on the other because of referring folks to Mozy over the years. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of parkpac@... Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prior emails archived? Hey Lenny, Wondering if there is a place that all of the group's old emails are archived? I saved a bunch of emails that I think are gone since my old computer crashed . I would like to go back and get them for my files. Thanks, Steve Biondi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48297	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Dropsy question

I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I bought from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, they have died of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then another will swell up and die. I have two left down from thirteen. I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the CPDs. But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my fish. Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this long enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the dropsy did not spread to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish will end up dying eventually? :( Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had recently... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48298	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

Are you certain it's Dropsy? What are the exact symptoms that the fish are showing? For instance some Tetra's will have a tendency to easily bloat up or become constipated from eating too much food that then swells up inside their stomach. I occasionally lose a tetra to this and I just replace them now and then when my LFS gets them in stock again. (I have flame tetra's and bleeding hearts, I am down to 1 healthy bleeding heart with one that's currently bloated and hasn't shown signs of recovering and I'm probably going to end up losing the poor thing). I've also lost a couple of platty's to bloat. I never lose any Guppies to bloat, which is amazing since they're horrible little pigs that never stop looking for food, LOL. I've heard that CPD's are hard to keep healthy/alive, but I don't remember why precisely. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I > bought from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, > they have died of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then > another will swell up and die. I have two left down from thirteen. > > I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the > CPDs. But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my fish. > > Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this > long enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the dropsy > did not spread to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish > will end up dying eventually? > > :( > > Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had recently... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48299	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

It's not bloat, Amber, it's dropsy. They swell up like pinecones and then quickly die. I think they were all exposed to a parasite or other infectious agent either in the wild or at the import house. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Are you certain it's Dropsy? What are the exact symptoms that the fish > are showing? > For instance some Tetra's will have a tendency to easily bloat up or > become constipated from eating too much food that then swells up > inside > their stomach. I occasionally lose a tetra to this and I just replace > them now and then when my LFS gets them in stock again. (I have flame > tetra's and bleeding hearts, I am down to 1 healthy bleeding heart > with > one that's currently bloated and hasn't shown signs of recovering and > I'm probably going to end up losing the poor thing). I've also lost a > couple of platty's to bloat. I never lose any Guppies to bloat, > which is > amazing since they're horrible little pigs that never stop looking for > food, LOL. > I've heard that CPD's are hard to keep healthy/alive, but I don't > remember why precisely. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I >> bought from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, >> they have died of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then >> another will swell up and die. I have two left down from thirteen. >> >> I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the >> CPDs. But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my >> fish. >> >> Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this >> long enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the dropsy >> did not spread to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish >> will end up dying eventually? >> >> :( >> >> Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had >> recently... >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48300	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

Before going to deep here, are you absolutely sure the fishes are dropsied and not just bloated from digestive or other causes? If you feel it's definitely dropsy, then read on... Dropsy is the end result of something that is causing kidney issues in your fish. Dropsy is kind of like Pop-eye in that it's a visible symptom but not the actual cause of the illness. I haven't read up much lately but the last time I did lots of reading about dropsy, there was still much debate about what was causing the kidney issues which caused the infected fish to retain water and bloat up. Note that Dropsy causes the entire fish's body to bloat up, not just the abdominal area like that which might occur due to a digestive tract infection where the stomach or intestines enlarge. Dropsy is the term that means when the entire body and most organs swell up due to retained water, meaning the muscular organ as well. Some veterinarians, when treating goldfish/koi, have used antibiotic injections of Baytril, if I'm not mistaken, to sometimes cure Dropsy when it's caught in it's infancy. I'm not sure if this treatment has changed or not. Here's more reading... http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6199 (think tank thread about one of the pathogenic causes of dropsy) http://www.marquette.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/byname.htm (scroll down about 1/3 page to Dropsy) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19631 (a thread about dropsy with some other links included in the thread) http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4735 (a 2004 thread that talks about both Baytril and other injection drugs as well) Older but simple info but this still works for some folks, depending on the cause of the dropsy. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html Here are some simple instructions from TheGab's Goldfish Disease page... http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/quick-reference-goldfish-illness.htm l Dropsy: .Symptoms: Bloating and scales sticking out - making the fish look like a pinecone when seen from above. With goldfish this is often preceded by swollen eyes. .Treatment: Dropsy is not an illness but a symptom. The real cause can be bacterial, parasitic, viral or environmental and typically results in kidney failure. Also when fish dropsy, it is severely affected and internal organs may be damaged. For these reasons dropsy is very hard to treat and often (but not always) fatal. Isolate the fish in a Hospital Tank. Keep the temperature in the high 70s. You can add 3 teaspoons of salt per gallons and bring calcium hardness up to 250ppm (with calcium chloride). Make sure you have plenty surface agitation to promote gas exchange. If the fish is eating feed Metromed or Romet B. If the fish is not eating, you can administer baytril or fortaz injections preferably, or bath antibiotics like maracyn plus, or maracyn 1 & 2. (END SNIP) As you will see, there is still much speculation as to the best treatment since the cause often is not known. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I bought from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, they have died of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then another will swell up and die. I have two left down from thirteen. I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the CPDs. But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my fish. Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this long enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the dropsy did not spread to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish will end up dying eventually? :( Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had recently... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48301	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Dropsy question

If it is dropsy it is probably being caused by stress, poor water conditions, or a combination. Of course almost all diseases are more common in wildcaught fish, so it may be why it is not affecting other fish. What kind of setup is this and what other fish are you keeping it with?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48302	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

I have done a lot of reading on dropsy and will look at the sites below as well, but I definitely have dropsy. I guess what I'm looking for is people who have experience with dropsy, and who can tell me whether it's likely that the disease will stick to the CPDs or will spread to the other species. I'd like to be prepared. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Before going to deep here, are you absolutely sure the fishes are > dropsied > and not just bloated from digestive or other causes? If you feel it's > definitely dropsy, then read on... > > Dropsy is the end result of something that is causing kidney issues > in your > fish. Dropsy is kind of like Pop-eye in that it's a visible symptom > but not > the actual cause of the illness. > > I haven't read up much lately but the last time I did lots of > reading about > dropsy, there was still much debate about what was causing the > kidney issues > which caused the infected fish to retain water and bloat up. Note that > Dropsy causes the entire fish's body to bloat up, not just the > abdominal > area like that which might occur due to a digestive tract infection > where > the stomach or intestines enlarge. Dropsy is the term that means > when the > entire body and most organs swell up due to retained water, meaning > the > muscular organ as well. Some veterinarians, when treating goldfish/ > koi, > have used antibiotic injections of Baytril, if I'm not mistaken, to > sometimes cure Dropsy when it's caught in it's infancy. > > I'm not sure if this treatment has changed or not. > > Here's more reading... > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6199 (think tank thread > about one of > the pathogenic causes of dropsy) > > http://www.marquette.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/byname.htm > (scroll down about 1/3 page to Dropsy) > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19631 (a thread about > dropsy > with some other links included in the thread) > > http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4735 (a 2004 thread > that > talks about both Baytril and other injection drugs as well) > > Older but simple info but this still works for some folks, > depending on the > cause of the dropsy. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > Here are some simple instructions from TheGab's Goldfish Disease > page... > http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/quick-reference-goldfish- > illness.htm > l > > Dropsy: > > .Symptoms: Bloating and scales sticking out - making the fish look > like a > pinecone when seen from above. With goldfish this is often preceded by > swollen eyes. > .Treatment: Dropsy is not an illness but a symptom. The real cause > can be > bacterial, parasitic, viral or environmental and typically results > in kidney > failure. Also when fish dropsy, it is severely affected and > internal organs > may be damaged. For these reasons dropsy is very hard to treat and > often > (but not always) fatal. Isolate the fish in a Hospital Tank. Keep the > temperature in the high 70s. You can add 3 teaspoons of salt per > gallons and > bring calcium hardness up to 250ppm (with calcium chloride). Make > sure you > have plenty surface agitation to promote gas exchange. If the fish > is eating > feed Metromed or Romet B. If the fish is not eating, you can > administer > baytril or fortaz injections preferably, or bath antibiotics like > maracyn > plus, or maracyn 1 & 2. > (END SNIP) > > As you will see, there is still much speculation as to the best > treatment > since the cause often is not known. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I > bought > from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, they > have died > of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then another will > swell up and > die. I have two left down from thirteen. > > I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the > CPDs. > But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my fish. > > Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this > long > enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the dropsy did > not spread > to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish will end up dying > eventually? > > :( > > Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had > recently... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48303	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

It does not appear to be a stress issue. I have lots of fish, my water parameters are really good, my water is super clean and changed out each week, and it is ONLY affecting the CPDs. I am not having any other problems in any other fish for the past seven months. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Jonathan Deitner wrote: > If it is dropsy it is probably being caused by stress, poor water > conditions, or a combination. Of course almost all diseases are more > common in wildcaught fish, so it may be why it is not affecting other > fish. What kind of setup is this and what other fish are you keeping > it with? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48304	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

Well, the CPD's could just have an immune system issue that is causing a low tolerance or low resistance to whatever is causing the dropsy. It could be bacteria, parasitic, viral or caused by other factors. As we know, stress will cause a fish to have a lower immune system so any kind of stressor could be causing immune system issues which then allows other triggers to affect the fish ultimately leading to the dropsy symptom. Any of the above three things could spread to other fish but the other fish/species could also have much stronger immune systems and never have a problem. You could remove all of the CPD's to their own tank and treat them with a broad regimen of treatments (maybe PraziPro for internal worms/parasites, then Maracyn 1 & 2 for broad spectrum antibiotics... maybe Ray will chime in with other advice) or continue to try and save the ones as you see them get sick. There's not much we can do if it's being caused by a virus. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question I have done a lot of reading on dropsy and will look at the sites below as well, but I definitely have dropsy. I guess what I'm looking for is people who have experience with dropsy, and who can tell me whether it's likely that the disease will stick to the CPDs or will spread to the other species. I'd like to be prepared. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Before going to deep here, are you absolutely sure the fishes are > dropsied and not just bloated from digestive or other causes? If you > feel it's definitely dropsy, then read on... > > Dropsy is the end result of something that is causing kidney issues in > your fish. Dropsy is kind of like Pop-eye in that it's a visible > symptom but not the actual cause of the illness. > > I haven't read up much lately but the last time I did lots of reading > about dropsy, there was still much debate about what was causing the > kidney issues which caused the infected fish to retain water and bloat > up. Note that Dropsy causes the entire fish's body to bloat up, not > just the abdominal area like that which might occur due to a digestive > tract infection where the stomach or intestines enlarge. Dropsy is the > term that means when the entire body and most organs swell up due to > retained water, meaning the muscular organ as well. Some > veterinarians, when treating goldfish/ koi, have used antibiotic > injections of Baytril, if I'm not mistaken, to sometimes cure Dropsy > when it's caught in it's infancy. > > I'm not sure if this treatment has changed or not. > > Here's more reading... > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6199 (think tank thread about > one of the pathogenic causes of dropsy) > > http://www.marquette.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/byname.htm > (scroll down about 1/3 page to Dropsy) > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19631 (a thread about > dropsy with some other links included in the thread) > > http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4735 (a 2004 thread > that talks about both Baytril and other injection drugs as well) > > Older but simple info but this still works for some folks, depending > on the cause of the dropsy. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > Here are some simple instructions from TheGab's Goldfish Disease > page... > http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/quick-reference-goldfish- > illness.htm > l > > Dropsy: > > .Symptoms: Bloating and scales sticking out - making the fish look > like a pinecone when seen from above. With goldfish this is often > preceded by swollen eyes. > .Treatment: Dropsy is not an illness but a symptom. The real cause can > be bacterial, parasitic, viral or environmental and typically results > in kidney failure. Also when fish dropsy, it is severely affected and > internal organs may be damaged. For these reasons dropsy is very hard > to treat and often (but not always) fatal. Isolate the fish in a > Hospital Tank. Keep the temperature in the high 70s. You can add 3 > teaspoons of salt per gallons and bring calcium hardness up to 250ppm > (with calcium chloride). Make sure you have plenty surface agitation > to promote gas exchange. If the fish is eating feed Metromed or Romet > B. If the fish is not eating, you can administer baytril or fortaz > injections preferably, or bath antibiotics like maracyn plus, or > maracyn 1 & 2. > (END SNIP) > > As you will see, there is still much speculation as to the best > treatment since the cause often is not known. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I > bought from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, > they have died of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then > another will swell up and die. I have two left down from thirteen. > > I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the > CPDs. > But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my fish. > > Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this > long enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the dropsy did > not spread to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish will end > up dying eventually? > > :( > > Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had > recently... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48305	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

I am wondering if these CPDs were caught with chemicals and the chemicals have damaged their kidneys. It's obvious that all of them were exposed to something that is now killing them off. I also talked to another person who had a similar experience with these fish from Invertz factory and said his slowly died off over many months - I'm not sure his had dropsy, I don't think he told me. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Before going to deep here, are you absolutely sure the fishes are > dropsied > and not just bloated from digestive or other causes? If you feel it's > definitely dropsy, then read on... > > Dropsy is the end result of something that is causing kidney issues > in your > fish. Dropsy is kind of like Pop-eye in that it's a visible symptom > but not > the actual cause of the illness. > > I haven't read up much lately but the last time I did lots of > reading about > dropsy, there was still much debate about what was causing the > kidney issues > which caused the infected fish to retain water and bloat up. Note that > Dropsy causes the entire fish's body to bloat up, not just the > abdominal > area like that which might occur due to a digestive tract infection > where > the stomach or intestines enlarge. Dropsy is the term that means > when the > entire body and most organs swell up due to retained water, meaning > the > muscular organ as well. Some veterinarians, when treating goldfish/ > koi, > have used antibiotic injections of Baytril, if I'm not mistaken, to > sometimes cure Dropsy when it's caught in it's infancy. > > I'm not sure if this treatment has changed or not. > > Here's more reading... > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6199 (think tank thread > about one of > the pathogenic causes of dropsy) > > http://www.marquette.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/byname.htm > (scroll down about 1/3 page to Dropsy) > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19631 (a thread about > dropsy > with some other links included in the thread) > > http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4735 (a 2004 thread > that > talks about both Baytril and other injection drugs as well) > > Older but simple info but this still works for some folks, > depending on the > cause of the dropsy. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > Here are some simple instructions from TheGab's Goldfish Disease > page... > http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/quick-reference-goldfish- > illness.htm > l > > Dropsy: > > .Symptoms: Bloating and scales sticking out - making the fish look > like a > pinecone when seen from above. With goldfish this is often preceded by > swollen eyes. > .Treatment: Dropsy is not an illness but a symptom. The real cause > can be > bacterial, parasitic, viral or environmental and typically results > in kidney > failure. Also when fish dropsy, it is severely affected and > internal organs > may be damaged. For these reasons dropsy is very hard to treat and > often > (but not always) fatal. Isolate the fish in a Hospital Tank. Keep the > temperature in the high 70s. You can add 3 teaspoons of salt per > gallons and > bring calcium hardness up to 250ppm (with calcium chloride). Make > sure you > have plenty surface agitation to promote gas exchange. If the fish > is eating > feed Metromed or Romet B. If the fish is not eating, you can > administer > baytril or fortaz injections preferably, or bath antibiotics like > maracyn > plus, or maracyn 1 & 2. > (END SNIP) > > As you will see, there is still much speculation as to the best > treatment > since the cause often is not known. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I > bought > from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, they > have died > of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then another will > swell up and > die. I have two left down from thirteen. > > I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the > CPDs. > But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my fish. > > Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this > long > enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the dropsy did > not spread > to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish will end up dying > eventually? > > :( > > Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had > recently... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48306	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

I only have two left now, out of thirteen. I think they both don't look right so maybe I will euthanize as soon as I'm sure they have it. It's really the other fish I'm concerned about. And yet, I have over a hundred fish - don't you think if it were an infectious agent causing the dropsy that at least one of my other fish would have died? I haven't had one fatality since the CPDs started dying seven months ago - other than a couple of accidents. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 4, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well, the CPD's could just have an immune system issue that is > causing a low > tolerance or low resistance to whatever is causing the dropsy. It > could be > bacteria, parasitic, viral or caused by other factors. As we know, > stress > will cause a fish to have a lower immune system so any kind of > stressor > could be causing immune system issues which then allows other > triggers to > affect the fish ultimately leading to the dropsy symptom. > > Any of the above three things could spread to other fish but the other > fish/species could also have much stronger immune systems and never > have a > problem. > > You could remove all of the CPD's to their own tank and treat them > with a > broad regimen of treatments (maybe PraziPro for internal worms/ > parasites, > then Maracyn 1 & 2 for broad spectrum antibiotics... maybe Ray will > chime in > with other advice) or continue to try and save the ones as you see > them get > sick. There's not much we can do if it's being caused by a virus. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > I have done a lot of reading on dropsy and will look at the sites > below as > well, but I definitely have dropsy. > > I guess what I'm looking for is people who have experience with > dropsy, and > who can tell me whether it's likely that the disease will stick to > the CPDs > or will spread to the other species. I'd like to be prepared. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Before going to deep here, are you absolutely sure the fishes are > > dropsied and not just bloated from digestive or other causes? If you > > feel it's definitely dropsy, then read on... > > > > Dropsy is the end result of something that is causing kidney > issues in > > your fish. Dropsy is kind of like Pop-eye in that it's a visible > > symptom but not the actual cause of the illness. > > > > I haven't read up much lately but the last time I did lots of > reading > > about dropsy, there was still much debate about what was causing the > > kidney issues which caused the infected fish to retain water and > bloat > > up. Note that Dropsy causes the entire fish's body to bloat up, not > > just the abdominal area like that which might occur due to a > digestive > > tract infection where the stomach or intestines enlarge. Dropsy > is the > > term that means when the entire body and most organs swell up due to > > retained water, meaning the muscular organ as well. Some > > veterinarians, when treating goldfish/ koi, have used antibiotic > > injections of Baytril, if I'm not mistaken, to sometimes cure Dropsy > > when it's caught in it's infancy. > > > > I'm not sure if this treatment has changed or not. > > > > Here's more reading... > > > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6199 (think tank thread > about > > one of the pathogenic causes of dropsy) > > > > http://www.marquette.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/ > byname.htm > > (scroll down about 1/3 page to Dropsy) > > > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19631 (a thread about > > dropsy with some other links included in the thread) > > > > http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4735 (a 2004 thread > > that talks about both Baytril and other injection drugs as well) > > > > Older but simple info but this still works for some folks, depending > > on the cause of the dropsy. > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > > > Here are some simple instructions from TheGab's Goldfish Disease > > page... > > http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/quick-reference-goldfish- > > illness.htm > > l > > > > Dropsy: > > > > .Symptoms: Bloating and scales sticking out - making the fish look > > like a pinecone when seen from above. With goldfish this is often > > preceded by swollen eyes. > > .Treatment: Dropsy is not an illness but a symptom. The real > cause can > > be bacterial, parasitic, viral or environmental and typically > results > > in kidney failure. Also when fish dropsy, it is severely affected > and > > internal organs may be damaged. For these reasons dropsy is very > hard > > to treat and often (but not always) fatal. Isolate the fish in a > > Hospital Tank. Keep the temperature in the high 70s. You can add 3 > > teaspoons of salt per gallons and bring calcium hardness up to > 250ppm > > (with calcium chloride). Make sure you have plenty surface agitation > > to promote gas exchange. If the fish is eating feed Metromed or > Romet > > B. If the fish is not eating, you can administer baytril or fortaz > > injections preferably, or bath antibiotics like maracyn plus, or > > maracyn 1 & 2. > > (END SNIP) > > > > As you will see, there is still much speculation as to the best > > treatment since the cause often is not known. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > > > I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I > > bought from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, > > they have died of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then > > another will swell up and die. I have two left down from thirteen. > > > > I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the > > CPDs. > > But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my fish. > > > > Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this > > long enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the > dropsy did > > not spread to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish > will end > > up dying eventually? > > > > :( > > > > Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had > > recently... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48307	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

Well, some fish are more prone to things that other fish are highly resistant to if it's being caused by bacterial issues. The wild caught CPD's could be coming from waters where these fish were already carrying the bacteria but were doing OK but then after being caught and transported, that lowers their immune system to the point where the bacteria cause a problem. Viruses can spread between the same species while not affecting other similar species and sometimes viruses can jump from one species to another. The other thing that is always a possibility is that dropsy is a genetic issue that could be causing the kidney problems in the affected fish. It could also be that all of your other fish have built up an immunity to a certain pathogen in your tanks but the CPD's have not been able to build up a resistance and slowly succumb to the pathogen. As you will see from reading, it's still a VERY tough condition to solve. More and more veterinarians are getting involved in cases of larger fish species and as they do and report to their societies and universities, more will be learned about this condition and possibly find a cure. There are still lots of other human conditions and higher animal conditions that are further up the food chain for research than our pet fish health issues. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question I only have two left now, out of thirteen. I think they both don't look right so maybe I will euthanize as soon as I'm sure they have it. It's really the other fish I'm concerned about. And yet, I have over a hundred fish - don't you think if it were an infectious agent causing the dropsy that at least one of my other fish would have died? I haven't had one fatality since the CPDs started dying seven months ago - other than a couple of accidents. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 4, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Well, the CPD's could just have an immune system issue that is causing > a low tolerance or low resistance to whatever is causing the dropsy. > It could be bacteria, parasitic, viral or caused by other factors. As > we know, stress will cause a fish to have a lower immune system so any > kind of stressor could be causing immune system issues which then > allows other triggers to affect the fish ultimately leading to the > dropsy symptom. > > Any of the above three things could spread to other fish but the other > fish/species could also have much stronger immune systems and never > have a problem. > > You could remove all of the CPD's to their own tank and treat them > with a broad regimen of treatments (maybe PraziPro for internal worms/ > parasites, then Maracyn 1 & 2 for broad spectrum antibiotics... maybe > Ray will chime in with other advice) or continue to try and save the > ones as you see them get sick. There's not much we can do if it's > being caused by a virus. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > I have done a lot of reading on dropsy and will look at the sites > below as well, but I definitely have dropsy. > > I guess what I'm looking for is people who have experience with > dropsy, and who can tell me whether it's likely that the disease will > stick to the CPDs or will spread to the other species. I'd like to be > prepared. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Before going to deep here, are you absolutely sure the fishes are > > dropsied and not just bloated from digestive or other causes? If you > > feel it's definitely dropsy, then read on... > > > > Dropsy is the end result of something that is causing kidney > issues in > > your fish. Dropsy is kind of like Pop-eye in that it's a visible > > symptom but not the actual cause of the illness. > > > > I haven't read up much lately but the last time I did lots of > reading > > about dropsy, there was still much debate about what was causing the > > kidney issues which caused the infected fish to retain water and > bloat > > up. Note that Dropsy causes the entire fish's body to bloat up, not > > just the abdominal area like that which might occur due to a > digestive > > tract infection where the stomach or intestines enlarge. Dropsy > is the > > term that means when the entire body and most organs swell up due to > > retained water, meaning the muscular organ as well. Some > > veterinarians, when treating goldfish/ koi, have used antibiotic > > injections of Baytril, if I'm not mistaken, to sometimes cure Dropsy > > when it's caught in it's infancy. > > > > I'm not sure if this treatment has changed or not. > > > > Here's more reading... > > > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6199 (think tank thread > about > > one of the pathogenic causes of dropsy) > > > > http://www.marquette.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/ > byname.htm > > (scroll down about 1/3 page to Dropsy) > > > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19631 (a thread about > > dropsy with some other links included in the thread) > > > > http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4735 (a 2004 thread > > that talks about both Baytril and other injection drugs as well) > > > > Older but simple info but this still works for some folks, depending > > on the cause of the dropsy. > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > > > Here are some simple instructions from TheGab's Goldfish Disease > > page... > > http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/quick-reference-goldfish- > > illness.htm > > l > > > > Dropsy: > > > > .Symptoms: Bloating and scales sticking out - making the fish look > > like a pinecone when seen from above. With goldfish this is often > > preceded by swollen eyes. > > .Treatment: Dropsy is not an illness but a symptom. The real > cause can > > be bacterial, parasitic, viral or environmental and typically > results > > in kidney failure. Also when fish dropsy, it is severely affected > and > > internal organs may be damaged. For these reasons dropsy is very > hard > > to treat and often (but not always) fatal. Isolate the fish in a > > Hospital Tank. Keep the temperature in the high 70s. You can add 3 > > teaspoons of salt per gallons and bring calcium hardness up to > 250ppm > > (with calcium chloride). Make sure you have plenty surface agitation > > to promote gas exchange. If the fish is eating feed Metromed or > Romet > > B. If the fish is not eating, you can administer baytril or fortaz > > injections preferably, or bath antibiotics like maracyn plus, or > > maracyn 1 & 2. > > (END SNIP) > > > > As you will see, there is still much speculation as to the best > > treatment since the cause often is not known. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > alphabetically > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > > > I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I > > bought from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, > > they have died of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then > > another will swell up and die. I have two left down from thirteen. > > > > I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the > > CPDs. > > But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my fish. > > > > Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this > > long enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the > dropsy did > > not spread to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish > will end > > up dying eventually? > > > > :( > > > > Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had > > recently... > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48308	From: Rowing Julie	Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: New Inhabitant

Hi Folks, Due to the continuing drought here in Oz & being that my fish were regularly becoming fertiler for my garden... an african voilet now sits where my floating fertilzer used to swim. Saved me from taking my tank to Vinnies & leaves me the option of getting more floating fertilzer .. Best of luck with all every ones' aquatic adventures

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48309	From: Ray	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

Lainey, As Lenny has alluded to, Dropsy is not the disease in itself, but instead the manifestation/condition of a number of possible bacterial and viral internal infections that impact the kidneys, and in addition at times, the liver as well -- which you most likely already know. As such, there are many possible causes, some of them being treatable in their early stages. All too often though, when the symptoms appear, too much damage has already been done internally to be able to effect a cure for the individual. Still, in efforts to prevent both the spread of some of these causes to other fish via the water column, and to initiate addressing these causes for fish having contracted this disease in it's early stages, a treatment should be administered in hopes it will arrest these causes. That being said, there are still causes of this disease which are untreastable, but with having no way of knowing what the actual pathogen is (without a necropsy, and with the employment of a microscope), the effort should still be made to effect a cure. With as many cases (11 ?) of Dropsy as you've had over the last 7 months, have you tried treating for it ? Or have you asked on here, if you were at a loss as to how to proceed during this extended period ? Agreed, undoubtedly it may be too late to cure your remaining two CPD's (Celestial Pearl Danio's), but then, since you should treat for this disease anyway to prevent it's possible spread, perhaps these two fish may just survive. Then too, in rarer cases, there are pathogens causing this disease which are specific only to Cyprinids and will not affect your Tetras, but again, we have no way of knowing. Perhaps this is the case here, which may be one explanation as to why your Tetras seem to so far be immune to this. A treatment regimen should be started though, at least to eliminate the possibility (and hopefully effect a cure) of any treatable pathogens present. As Lenny did also mention a major cause of Dropsy being a possible stressor, but you dismissed this suggestion siting that you had no other losses of your other fish species, there's still room to consider your fish possibly getting this disease in the future. You cannot be that sure that there is not something that may be causing stress to all your fish, yet at this time is only affecting the CPD's, having possible immune system issues. Trying to find any possible stress causes, I'll first go back to what I seem to remember you saying about your tank (or tanks ?) being heavily planted -- and that it is difficult for you to deep clean your gravel because of this -- but I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly. If so, then this could be a cause right there, when gravel cannot be cleaned sufficiently to prevent conditions that are conducive to the growth of anaerobic bacteria. While these heterotrophic bacteria (Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, etc.) as found growing normally under such conditions are not pathogenic to fish, these same conditions can harbor latent forms of related Aeromonas and Pseudomonas bacteria which DO. It has been well established that Pseudomonas punctata is a leading cause of Dropsy. Any maintenance that you can do to eliminate possible environments of latent forms of these diseases is a major benefit. I'll also go back more recently (as said within this thread), to your mention of you presently having over a hundred fish. If you would again please state the size tank that you're having this problem in, and the number of fish you have in this tank, it would be most appreciated. I don't recall seeing this information being offered previously, but perhaps I missed it. Maybe we can establish whether this tank is too populated, or not, to be able to offer a stress-free (or stress-full ?) environment for the fish. It was also pointed out by Lenny that medicated foods such as MetroMed or Romet-B is used for much larger fish such as Goldfish (and also, Koi), for you to consider as a procedure with your problem. As MetroMed (a krill-based food) and Romet-B are larger pellet foods designed for feeding these much larger pond fish, they are obviously far too large to feed to fish less than 1" long, but you might try crushing such foods with a hammer, after first putting them inside a jiffy bag. A major drawback, particularly with Romet-B though, is that it only comes in 25 lb. canisters. Besides which, there are much more effective medicated foods on the market. Romet-B contains Sulfadimethoxine and Ormetoprim, which often are not enough to effect a cure for Dropsy when this disease is treatable. MetroMed, on the other hand, contains Metronidazole, Ormetoprim-sulfa and Oxtytetracycline -- designed primarily for treating internal parasite issues (which aren't said to be the cause of Dropsy). With the use of medicated foods against Dropsy, I need to point out that most often when cures are effected with the help of these, that they are fed for a minimum of at least 10 to 14 days -- or LONGER. Some pond enthusiasts continue feeding them for up to 2 months to ensure a cure is final. There are other more effective medicated foods offered for feeding pond fish, and which may be modified (crushed/pulverized) for use with tropical fish. Medi-Gold, and also, MediKoi (having the same formula) are both well-recognized foods for use in Water Garden applications in feeding large ornamental fish (Goldfish and Koi). They also contain the same Sulfadimethoxine and Ormetoprim that Romet-B contains, but also have Kanamycin and Oxolinic Acid -- two of the most effective medications (antibiotics) used as treatments against Dropsy. BTW, many of the most treatable (when caught early) forms of Dropsy -- and fortunately, the most prevalent of the causes, because of this very reason -- are the bacterial forms. There are still some bacterial forms which are not treatable, such as those caused by Mycobacteria and any viral form is extremely difficult (if not impossible) to treat. Edwardsiella (a bacterium) is also another cause of Dropsy, but I believe that's treatable. While I only just touched on medicated foods in helping treat Dropsy, I was doing so in following up on previous posts. My main purpose in addressing Dropsy is to recommend treating against it directly -- with medications administered directly to the water column -- and with medications that will directly administer internally, from the water column. As I've stated a number of times in the past, there are only a very few antibiotics which are readily absorbed internally by fish, from the water column. Kanamycin Sulfate is one of them, and one that I highly recommend in treatments of any such bacterial infections -- even including Dropsy when there's hope it's of a bacterial (treatable) form. This can be found as SeaChem's "KanaPlex." Naladixic Acid (as A.P.I.'s "Nalagram") is yet another one of the more readily absorbed antibiotics, and also very useful in this application. A third antibiotic in this category (readily absorbable)is Minocycline (Mardell's Maracyn II -- [Maracyn 2]}, however it needs to be specifically pointed out that this is not compatible with MetroMed in case that medicated food is used. For effectively treating Dropsy, the temperature needs to preferably be raised to 86 o; a point which is never mentioned (and always with increased aeration when raising the temperature to this or similar extents). A recommendation I've read, essentially saying -- UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, are you to use table salt as a treatment against Dropsy as it is said to induce fish to retain water -- which is counterproductive in treating this malady. I really tend to doubt this however, as -- as far as I'm aware -- salt in the fish's environment will tend to release water from the fish in the gill membrane's attempt to equalize the osmotic pressure within the fish -- although with too much salt in the water having the effect of dehydrating the fish, but you may want to heed this. Anyway, the increase in the hardness -- either via the addition of Calcium Chloride (as Lenny suggests), or Calcium Carbonate (crushed Coral, or Aragonite [or, powdered, AragaMight]}, or much more simply -- Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) is quite helpful with Dropsy; YES, while we used Epsom salt for treating the constipation form of bloat (as a laxative), it's also used for treating Dropsy in hardening the water. A minimum of 1/8 teaspoon of Epsom salt per 5 gallons is to be used for starters, with up to 1 teaspoon per gallon slowly added over a 3 day period. One last thing (I think), with the mention of Baytril (Enrofloxacin) and it's injection of this and other drugs (Azactam/Amakacin and, where still available, Chloramphenicol) into fish, this is routinely done with 2' to 3' pond fish, but I don't see an application here as it would be impossible to inject a 1" fish (without killing it). OOPS, I thought that was perhaps a last thought, but it just occurred to me -- if any dead CPD's were left in the tank for any length of time before you saw them, and if they were partially eaten by other tank mates, this is one way these other fish would become infected. If this didn't happen in your aquarium, then it may have happened with this group of CPD's while they were still at Invertz Factory. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > I only have two left now, out of thirteen. I think they both don't > look right so maybe I will euthanize as soon as I'm sure they have > it. It's really the other fish I'm concerned about. > > And yet, I have over a hundred fish - don't you think if it were an > infectious agent causing the dropsy that at least one of my other > fish would have died? I haven't had one fatality since the CPDs > started dying seven months ago - other than a couple of accidents. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 4, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > Well, the CPD's could just have an immune system issue that is > > causing a low > > tolerance or low resistance to whatever is causing the dropsy. It > > could be > > bacteria, parasitic, viral or caused by other factors. As we know, > > stress > > will cause a fish to have a lower immune system so any kind of > > stressor > > could be causing immune system issues which then allows other > > triggers to > > affect the fish ultimately leading to the dropsy symptom. > > > > Any of the above three things could spread to other fish but the other > > fish/species could also have much stronger immune systems and never > > have a > > problem. > > > > You could remove all of the CPD's to their own tank and treat them > > with a > > broad regimen of treatments (maybe PraziPro for internal worms/ > > parasites, > > then Maracyn 1 & 2 for broad spectrum antibiotics... maybe Ray will > > chime in > > with other advice) or continue to try and save the ones as you see > > them get > > sick. There's not much we can do if it's being caused by a virus. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > > > I have done a lot of reading on dropsy and will look at the sites > > below as > > well, but I definitely have dropsy. > > > > I guess what I'm looking for is people who have experience with > > dropsy, and > > who can tell me whether it's likely that the disease will stick to > > the CPDs > > or will spread to the other species. I'd like to be prepared. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Before going to deep here, are you absolutely sure the fishes are > > > dropsied and not just bloated from digestive or other causes? If you > > > feel it's definitely dropsy, then read on... > > > > > > Dropsy is the end result of something that is causing kidney > > issues in > > > your fish. Dropsy is kind of like Pop-eye in that it's a visible > > > symptom but not the actual cause of the illness. > > > > > > I haven't read up much lately but the last time I did lots of > > reading > > > about dropsy, there was still much debate about what was causing the > > > kidney issues which caused the infected fish to retain water and > > bloat > > > up. Note that Dropsy causes the entire fish's body to bloat up, not > > > just the abdominal area like that which might occur due to a > > digestive > > > tract infection where the stomach or intestines enlarge. Dropsy > > is the > > > term that means when the entire body and most organs swell up due to > > > retained water, meaning the muscular organ as well. Some > > > veterinarians, when treating goldfish/ koi, have used antibiotic > > > injections of Baytril, if I'm not mistaken, to sometimes cure Dropsy > > > when it's caught in it's infancy. > > > > > > I'm not sure if this treatment has changed or not. > > > > > > Here's more reading... > > > > > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6199 (think tank thread > > about > > > one of the pathogenic causes of dropsy) > > > > > > http://www.marquette.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/ > > byname.htm > > > (scroll down about 1/3 page to Dropsy) > > > > > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19631 (a thread about > > > dropsy with some other links included in the thread) > > > > > > http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4735 (a 2004 thread > > > that talks about both Baytril and other injection drugs as well) > > > > > > Older but simple info but this still works for some folks, depending > > > on the cause of the dropsy. > > > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > > > > > Here are some simple instructions from TheGab's Goldfish Disease > > > page... > > > http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/quick-reference-goldfish- > > > illness.htm > > > l > > > > > > Dropsy: > > > > > > .Symptoms: Bloating and scales sticking out - making the fish look > > > like a pinecone when seen from above. With goldfish this is often > > > preceded by swollen eyes. > > > .Treatment: Dropsy is not an illness but a symptom. The real > > cause can > > > be bacterial, parasitic, viral or environmental and typically > > results > > > in kidney failure. Also when fish dropsy, it is severely affected > > and > > > internal organs may be damaged. For these reasons dropsy is very > > hard > > > to treat and often (but not always) fatal. Isolate the fish in a > > > Hospital Tank. Keep the temperature in the high 70s. You can add 3 > > > teaspoons of salt per gallons and bring calcium hardness up to > > 250ppm > > > (with calcium chloride). Make sure you have plenty surface agitation > > > to promote gas exchange. If the fish is eating feed Metromed or > > Romet > > > B. If the fish is not eating, you can administer baytril or fortaz > > > injections preferably, or bath antibiotics like maracyn plus, or > > > maracyn 1 & 2. > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > As you will see, there is still much speculation as to the best > > > treatment since the cause often is not known. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > alphabetically > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:56 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > > > > > I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I > > > bought from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven months, > > > they have died of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then > > > another will swell up and die. I have two left down from thirteen. > > > > > > I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling among the > > > CPDs. > > > But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my fish. > > > > > > Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is this > > > long enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the > > dropsy did > > > not spread to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish > > will end > > > up dying eventually? > > > > > > :( > > > > > > Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had > > > recently... > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48310	From: William M	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

Another line of thought is that these are wild caught fish and as such are not as adaptable to other tank conditions as she might have. This is a stressor to the fish and may have helped to cause the dropsy in her fish. Remember when wild caught discus and angelfish are brought into the United States (or other parts of the world) they are put into water that recreates the water conditions that they were caught in and not just water that other captive raised fish are in. They might not have been able to adapt to this new water condition and slowly were stressed to the point that they died (or are dying) of dropsy. The remaining one may be able to adapt to the water conditions of the tank (hopefully) That is my thought on the subject. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Lainey, As Lenny has alluded to, Dropsy is not the disease in itself, but instead the manifestation/condition of a number of possible bacterial and viral internal infections that impact the kidneys, and in addition at times, the liver as well -- which you most likely already know. As such, there are many possible causes, some of them being treatable in their early stages. All too often though, when the symptoms appear, too much damage has already been done internally to be able to effect a cure for the individual. Still, in efforts to prevent both the spread of some of these causes to other fish via the water column, and to initiate addressing these causes for fish having contracted this disease in it's early stages, a treatment should be administered in hopes it will arrest these causes. That being said, there are still causes of this disease which are untreastable, but with having no way of knowing what the actual pathogen is (without a necropsy, and with the employment of a microscope), the effort should still be made to effect a cure. > > With as many cases (11 ?) of Dropsy as you've had over the last 7 months, have you tried treating for it ? Or have you asked on here, if you were at a loss as to how to proceed during this extended period ? Agreed, undoubtedly it may be too late to cure your remaining two CPD's (Celestial Pearl Danio's), but then, since you should treat for this disease anyway to prevent it's possible spread, perhaps these two fish may just survive. Then too, in rarer cases, there are pathogens causing this disease which are specific only to Cyprinids and will not affect your Tetras, but again, we have no way of knowing. Perhaps this is the case here, which may be one explanation as to why your Tetras seem to so far be immune to this. A treatment regimen should be started though, at least to eliminate the possibility (and hopefully effect a cure) of any treatable pathogens present. > > As Lenny did also mention a major cause of Dropsy being a possible stressor, but you dismissed this suggestion siting that you had no other losses of your other fish species, there's still room to consider your fish possibly getting this disease in the future. You cannot be that sure that there is not something that may be causing stress to all your fish, yet at this time is only affecting the CPD's, having possible immune system issues. Trying to find any possible stress causes, I'll first go back to what I seem to remember you saying about your tank (or tanks ?) being heavily planted -- and that it is difficult for you to deep clean your gravel because of this -- but I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly. If so, then this could be a cause right there, when gravel cannot be cleaned sufficiently to prevent conditions that are conducive to the growth of anaerobic bacteria. While these heterotrophic bacteria (Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, etc.) as found growing normally under such conditions are not pathogenic to fish, these same conditions can harbor latent forms of related Aeromonas and Pseudomonas bacteria which DO. It has been well established that Pseudomonas punctata is a leading cause of Dropsy. Any maintenance that you can do to eliminate possible environments of latent forms of these diseases is a major benefit. > > I'll also go back more recently (as said within this thread), to your mention of you presently having over a hundred fish. If you would again please state the size tank that you're having this problem in, and the number of fish you have in this tank, it would be most appreciated. I don't recall seeing this information being offered previously, but perhaps I missed it. Maybe we can establish whether this tank is too populated, or not, to be able to offer a stress-free (or stress-full ?) environment for the fish. > > It was also pointed out by Lenny that medicated foods such as MetroMed or Romet-B is used for much larger fish such as Goldfish (and also, Koi), for you to consider as a procedure with your problem. As MetroMed (a krill-based food) and Romet-B are larger pellet foods designed for feeding these much larger pond fish, they are obviously far too large to feed to fish less than 1" long, but you might try crushing such foods with a hammer, after first putting them inside a jiffy bag. A major drawback, particularly with Romet-B though, is that it only comes in 25 lb. canisters. Besides which, there are much more effective medicated foods on the market. Romet-B contains Sulfadimethoxine and Ormetoprim, which often are not enough to effect a cure for Dropsy when this disease is treatable. MetroMed, on the other hand, contains Metronidazole, Ormetoprim-sulfa and Oxtytetracycline -- designed primarily for treating internal parasite issues (which aren't said to be the cause of Dropsy). With the use of medicated foods against Dropsy, I need to point out that most often when cures are effected with the help of these, that they are fed for a minimum of at least 10 to 14 days -- or LONGER. Some pond enthusiasts continue feeding them for up to 2 months to ensure a cure is final. > > There are other more effective medicated foods offered for feeding pond fish, and which may be modified (crushed/pulverized) for use with tropical fish. Medi-Gold, and also, MediKoi (having the same formula) are both well-recognized foods for use in Water Garden applications in feeding large ornamental fish (Goldfish and Koi). They also contain the same Sulfadimethoxine and Ormetoprim that Romet-B contains, but also have Kanamycin and Oxolinic Acid -- two of the most effective medications (antibiotics) used as treatments against Dropsy. BTW, many of the most treatable (when caught early) forms of Dropsy -- and fortunately, the most prevalent of the causes, because of this very reason -- are the bacterial forms. There are still some bacterial forms which are not treatable, such as those caused by Mycobacteria and any viral form is extremely difficult (if not impossible) to treat. Edwardsiella (a bacterium) is also another cause of Dropsy, but I believe that's treatable. > > While I only just touched on medicated foods in helping treat Dropsy, I was doing so in following up on previous posts. My main purpose in addressing Dropsy is to recommend treating against it directly -- with medications administered directly to the water column -- and with medications that will directly administer internally, from the water column. As I've stated a number of times in the past, there are only a very few antibiotics which are readily absorbed internally by fish, from the water column. Kanamycin Sulfate is one of them, and one that I highly recommend in treatments of any such bacterial infections -- even including Dropsy when there's hope it's of a bacterial (treatable) form. This can be found as SeaChem's "KanaPlex." Naladixic Acid (as A.P.I.'s "Nalagram") is yet another one of the more readily absorbed antibiotics, and also very useful in this application. A third antibiotic in this category (readily absorbable)is Minocycline (Mardell's Maracyn II -- [Maracyn 2]}, however it needs to be specifically pointed out that this is not compatible with MetroMed in case that medicated food is used. > > For effectively treating Dropsy, the temperature needs to preferably be raised to 86 o; a point which is never mentioned (and always with increased aeration when raising the temperature to this or similar extents). A recommendation I've read, essentially saying -- UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, are you to use table salt as a treatment against Dropsy as it is said to induce fish to retain water -- which is counterproductive in treating this malady. I really tend to doubt this however, as -- as far as I'm aware -- salt in the fish's environment will tend to release water from the fish in the gill membrane's attempt to equalize the osmotic pressure within the fish -- although with too much salt in the water having the effect of dehydrating the fish, but you may want to heed this. Anyway, the increase in the hardness -- either via the addition of Calcium Chloride (as Lenny suggests), or Calcium Carbonate (crushed Coral, or Aragonite [or, powdered, AragaMight]}, or much more simply -- Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) is quite helpful with Dropsy; YES, while we used Epsom salt for treating the constipation form of bloat (as a laxative), it's also used for treating Dropsy in hardening the water. A minimum of 1/8 teaspoon of Epsom salt per 5 gallons is to be used for starters, with up to 1 teaspoon per gallon slowly added over a 3 day period. > > One last thing (I think), with the mention of Baytril (Enrofloxacin) and it's injection of this and other drugs (Azactam/Amakacin and, where still available, Chloramphenicol) into fish, this is routinely done with 2' to 3' pond fish, but I don't see an application here as it would be impossible to inject a 1" fish (without killing it). > > OOPS, I thought that was perhaps a last thought, but it just occurred to me -- if any dead CPD's were left in the tank for any length of time before you saw them, and if they were partially eaten by other tank mates, this is one way these other fish would become infected. If this didn't happen in your aquarium, then it may have happened with this group of CPD's while they were still at Invertz Factory. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48311	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Dropsy question

Thanks, Ray. I appreciate this very long post. I really think something is going on at the import houses or the importing process, maybe during catching. I posted a query on my dropsy problem to planted tank, and now I have a total of five cases exactly like mine, involving wild caught celestial pearl danios. They all show the same symptoms as mine and die one after another over a long time. In all cases, no other fish got sick. I am currently asking a reputable importer for his thoughts...will post back if I get more information. One person suspects TB, but if this is TB it's so contagious, wouldn't my other fish or the other dropsy peoples' other fish, have developed the same disease? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 5, 2010, at 5:36 AM, Ray wrote: > Lainey, As Lenny has alluded to, Dropsy is not the disease in > itself, but instead the manifestation/condition of a number of > possible bacterial and viral internal infections that impact the > kidneys, and in addition at times, the liver as well -- which you > most likely already know. As such, there are many possible causes, > some of them being treatable in their early stages. All too often > though, when the symptoms appear, too much damage has already been > done internally to be able to effect a cure for the individual. > Still, in efforts to prevent both the spread of some of these > causes to other fish via the water column, and to initiate > addressing these causes for fish having contracted this disease in > it's early stages, a treatment should be administered in hopes it > will arrest these causes. That being said, there are still causes > of this disease which are untreastable, but with having no way of > knowing what the actual pathogen is (without a necropsy, and with > the employment of a microscope), the effort should still be made to > effect a cure. > > With as many cases (11 ?) of Dropsy as you've had over the last 7 > months, have you tried treating for it ? Or have you asked on here, > if you were at a loss as to how to proceed during this extended > period ? Agreed, undoubtedly it may be too late to cure your > remaining two CPD's (Celestial Pearl Danio's), but then, since you > should treat for this disease anyway to prevent it's possible > spread, perhaps these two fish may just survive. Then too, in rarer > cases, there are pathogens causing this disease which are specific > only to Cyprinids and will not affect your Tetras, but again, we > have no way of knowing. Perhaps this is the case here, which may be > one explanation as to why your Tetras seem to so far be immune to > this. A treatment regimen should be started though, at least to > eliminate the possibility (and hopefully effect a cure) of any > treatable pathogens present. > > As Lenny did also mention a major cause of Dropsy being a possible > stressor, but you dismissed this suggestion siting that you had no > other losses of your other fish species, there's still room to > consider your fish possibly getting this disease in the future. You > cannot be that sure that there is not something that may be causing > stress to all your fish, yet at this time is only affecting the > CPD's, having possible immune system issues. Trying to find any > possible stress causes, I'll first go back to what I seem to > remember you saying about your tank (or tanks ?) being heavily > planted -- and that it is difficult for you to deep clean your > gravel because of this -- but I'm not sure if I'm remembering this > correctly. If so, then this could be a cause right there, when > gravel cannot be cleaned sufficiently to prevent conditions that > are conducive to the growth of anaerobic bacteria. While these > heterotrophic bacteria (Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, etc.) as found > growing normally under such conditions are not pathogenic to fish, > these same conditions can harbor latent forms of related Aeromonas > and Pseudomonas bacteria which DO. It has been well established > that Pseudomonas punctata is a leading cause of Dropsy. Any > maintenance that you can do to eliminate possible environments of > latent forms of these diseases is a major benefit. > > I'll also go back more recently (as said within this thread), to > your mention of you presently having over a hundred fish. If you > would again please state the size tank that you're having this > problem in, and the number of fish you have in this tank, it would > be most appreciated. I don't recall seeing this information being > offered previously, but perhaps I missed it. Maybe we can establish > whether this tank is too populated, or not, to be able to offer a > stress-free (or stress-full ?) environment for the fish. > > It was also pointed out by Lenny that medicated foods such as > MetroMed or Romet-B is used for much larger fish such as Goldfish > (and also, Koi), for you to consider as a procedure with your > problem. As MetroMed (a krill-based food) and Romet-B are larger > pellet foods designed for feeding these much larger pond fish, they > are obviously far too large to feed to fish less than 1" long, but > you might try crushing such foods with a hammer, after first > putting them inside a jiffy bag. A major drawback, particularly > with Romet-B though, is that it only comes in 25 lb. canisters. > Besides which, there are much more effective medicated foods on the > market. Romet-B contains Sulfadimethoxine and Ormetoprim, which > often are not enough to effect a cure for Dropsy when this disease > is treatable. MetroMed, on the other hand, contains Metronidazole, > Ormetoprim-sulfa and Oxtytetracycline -- designed primarily for > treating internal parasite issues (which aren't said to be the > cause of Dropsy). With the use of medicated foods against Dropsy, I > need to point out that most often when cures are effected with the > help of these, that they are fed for a minimum of at least 10 to 14 > days -- or LONGER. Some pond enthusiasts continue feeding them for > up to 2 months to ensure a cure is final. > > There are other more effective medicated foods offered for feeding > pond fish, and which may be modified (crushed/pulverized) for use > with tropical fish. Medi-Gold, and also, MediKoi (having the same > formula) are both well-recognized foods for use in Water Garden > applications in feeding large ornamental fish (Goldfish and Koi). > They also contain the same Sulfadimethoxine and Ormetoprim that > Romet-B contains, but also have Kanamycin and Oxolinic Acid -- two > of the most effective medications (antibiotics) used as treatments > against Dropsy. BTW, many of the most treatable (when caught early) > forms of Dropsy -- and fortunately, the most prevalent of the > causes, because of this very reason -- are the bacterial forms. > There are still some bacterial forms which are not treatable, such > as those caused by Mycobacteria and any viral form is extremely > difficult (if not impossible) to treat. Edwardsiella (a bacterium) > is also another cause of Dropsy, but I believe that's treatable. > > While I only just touched on medicated foods in helping treat > Dropsy, I was doing so in following up on previous posts. My main > purpose in addressing Dropsy is to recommend treating against it > directly -- with medications administered directly to the water > column -- and with medications that will directly administer > internally, from the water column. As I've stated a number of times > in the past, there are only a very few antibiotics which are > readily absorbed internally by fish, from the water column. > Kanamycin Sulfate is one of them, and one that I highly recommend > in treatments of any such bacterial infections -- even including > Dropsy when there's hope it's of a bacterial (treatable) form. This > can be found as SeaChem's "KanaPlex." Naladixic Acid (as A.P.I.'s > "Nalagram") is yet another one of the more readily absorbed > antibiotics, and also very useful in this application. A third > antibiotic in this category (readily absorbable)is Minocycline > (Mardell's Maracyn II -- [Maracyn 2]}, however it needs to be > specifically pointed out that this is not compatible with MetroMed > in case that medicated food is used. > > For effectively treating Dropsy, the temperature needs to > preferably be raised to 86 o; a point which is never mentioned (and > always with increased aeration when raising the temperature to this > or similar extents). A recommendation I've read, essentially saying > -- UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, are you to use table salt as a treatment > against Dropsy as it is said to induce fish to retain water -- > which is counterproductive in treating this malady. I really tend > to doubt this however, as -- as far as I'm aware -- salt in the > fish's environment will tend to release water from the fish in the > gill membrane's attempt to equalize the osmotic pressure within the > fish -- although with too much salt in the water having the effect > of dehydrating the fish, but you may want to heed this. Anyway, the > increase in the hardness -- either via the addition of Calcium > Chloride (as Lenny suggests), or Calcium Carbonate (crushed Coral, > or Aragonite [or, powdered, AragaMight]}, or much more simply -- > Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) is quite helpful with Dropsy; YES, > while we used Epsom salt for treating the constipation form of > bloat (as a laxative), it's also used for treating Dropsy in > hardening the water. A minimum of 1/8 teaspoon of Epsom salt per 5 > gallons is to be used for starters, with up to 1 teaspoon per > gallon slowly added over a 3 day period. > > One last thing (I think), with the mention of Baytril > (Enrofloxacin) and it's injection of this and other drugs (Azactam/ > Amakacin and, where still available, Chloramphenicol) into fish, > this is routinely done with 2' to 3' pond fish, but I don't see an > application here as it would be impossible to inject a 1" fish > (without killing it). > > OOPS, I thought that was perhaps a last thought, but it just > occurred to me -- if any dead CPD's were left in the tank for any > length of time before you saw them, and if they were partially > eaten by other tank mates, this is one way these other fish would > become infected. If this didn't happen in your aquarium, then it > may have happened with this group of CPD's while they were still at > Invertz Factory. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > I only have two left now, out of thirteen. I think they both don't > > look right so maybe I will euthanize as soon as I'm sure they have > > it. It's really the other fish I'm concerned about. > > > > And yet, I have over a hundred fish - don't you think if it were an > > infectious agent causing the dropsy that at least one of my other > > fish would have died? I haven't had one fatality since the CPDs > > started dying seven months ago - other than a couple of accidents. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jun 4, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > Well, the CPD's could just have an immune system issue that is > > > causing a low > > > tolerance or low resistance to whatever is causing the dropsy. It > > > could be > > > bacteria, parasitic, viral or caused by other factors. As we know, > > > stress > > > will cause a fish to have a lower immune system so any kind of > > > stressor > > > could be causing immune system issues which then allows other > > > triggers to > > > affect the fish ultimately leading to the dropsy symptom. > > > > > > Any of the above three things could spread to other fish but > the other > > > fish/species could also have much stronger immune systems and > never > > > have a > > > problem. > > > > > > You could remove all of the CPD's to their own tank and treat them > > > with a > > > broad regimen of treatments (maybe PraziPro for internal worms/ > > > parasites, > > > then Maracyn 1 & 2 for broad spectrum antibiotics... maybe Ray > will > > > chime in > > > with other advice) or continue to try and save the ones as you see > > > them get > > > sick. There's not much we can do if it's being caused by a virus. > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the > > > right > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > > > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:45 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > > > > > I have done a lot of reading on dropsy and will look at the sites > > > below as > > > well, but I definitely have dropsy. > > > > > > I guess what I'm looking for is people who have experience with > > > dropsy, and > > > who can tell me whether it's likely that the disease will stick to > > > the CPDs > > > or will spread to the other species. I'd like to be prepared. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > > > > Before going to deep here, are you absolutely sure the fishes > are > > > > dropsied and not just bloated from digestive or other causes? > If you > > > > feel it's definitely dropsy, then read on... > > > > > > > > Dropsy is the end result of something that is causing kidney > > > issues in > > > > your fish. Dropsy is kind of like Pop-eye in that it's a visible > > > > symptom but not the actual cause of the illness. > > > > > > > > I haven't read up much lately but the last time I did lots of > > > reading > > > > about dropsy, there was still much debate about what was > causing the > > > > kidney issues which caused the infected fish to retain water and > > > bloat > > > > up. Note that Dropsy causes the entire fish's body to bloat > up, not > > > > just the abdominal area like that which might occur due to a > > > digestive > > > > tract infection where the stomach or intestines enlarge. Dropsy > > > is the > > > > term that means when the entire body and most organs swell up > due to > > > > retained water, meaning the muscular organ as well. Some > > > > veterinarians, when treating goldfish/ koi, have used antibiotic > > > > injections of Baytril, if I'm not mistaken, to sometimes cure > Dropsy > > > > when it's caught in it's infancy. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if this treatment has changed or not. > > > > > > > > Here's more reading... > > > > > > > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6199 (think tank thread > > > about > > > > one of the pathogenic causes of dropsy) > > > > > > > > http://www.marquette.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/ > > > byname.htm > > > > (scroll down about 1/3 page to Dropsy) > > > > > > > > http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19631 (a thread > about > > > > dropsy with some other links included in the thread) > > > > > > > > http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4735 (a 2004 > thread > > > > that talks about both Baytril and other injection drugs as well) > > > > > > > > Older but simple info but this still works for some folks, > depending > > > > on the cause of the dropsy. > > > > > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html > > > > > > > > Here are some simple instructions from TheGab's Goldfish Disease > > > > page... > > > > http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/quick-reference- > goldfish- > > > > illness.htm > > > > l > > > > > > > > Dropsy: > > > > > > > > .Symptoms: Bloating and scales sticking out - making the fish > look > > > > like a pinecone when seen from above. With goldfish this is > often > > > > preceded by swollen eyes. > > > > .Treatment: Dropsy is not an illness but a symptom. The real > > > cause can > > > > be bacterial, parasitic, viral or environmental and typically > > > results > > > > in kidney failure. Also when fish dropsy, it is severely > affected > > > and > > > > internal organs may be damaged. For these reasons dropsy is very > > > hard > > > > to treat and often (but not always) fatal. Isolate the fish in a > > > > Hospital Tank. Keep the temperature in the high 70s. You can > add 3 > > > > teaspoons of salt per gallons and bring calcium hardness up to > > > 250ppm > > > > (with calcium chloride). Make sure you have plenty surface > agitation > > > > to promote gas exchange. If the fish is eating feed Metromed or > > > Romet > > > > B. If the fish is not eating, you can administer baytril or > fortaz > > > > injections preferably, or bath antibiotics like maracyn plus, or > > > > maracyn 1 & 2. > > > > (END SNIP) > > > > > > > > As you will see, there is still much speculation as to the best > > > > treatment since the cause often is not known. > > > > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > > > > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, > > > alphabetically > > > > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > > > > Month) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey > Alexander > > > > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:56 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dropsy question > > > > > > > > I had a large group of wild caught celestial pearl danios that I > > > > bought from Invertz Factory. One by one, over the past seven > months, > > > > they have died of dropsy. There will be a couple months and then > > > > another will swell up and die. I have two left down from > thirteen. > > > > > > > > I have been worried about this as it is clearly traveling > among the > > > > CPDs. > > > > But I have not seen a single case in any other species of my > fish. > > > > > > > > Since it has been about seven months since I got the CPDs, is > this > > > > long enough for me to rest assured that whatever caused the > > > dropsy did > > > > not spread to my other fish? Or is it likely that all my fish > > > will end > > > > up dying eventually? > > > > > > > > :( > > > > > > > > Thanks for this answer and also many others that I have had > > > > recently... > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48312	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Sick fish

In my 20 gallon community tank, filtered with fluval canister, diy co2, tons of plants, driftwood, moss, night-time airstone, 1 of my 2 glass cats had what looked like a fungus inside his body, on his spine. I began treatment with Tetracycline, as I was told fungus will not infect the inside of the fish. I also have shrimp in this tank. The catfish was still voraciously eating and acting normal. Then small white spots began appearing first on his fins, then later all over his body. It did not look like ich, and the only other fish affected was the gorgeous blue, crowntail betta. I continued the tetracycline treatment, and added kordon's ich +. I then added salt to the regimen. Nothing helped. The glass cat continued to get worse. I did several PWC's over the course of treatment, and he finally succomed. Did another 50% water change, and stopped all treatment as it did not seem to be working anyway. The betta is still pigging out on baby shrimp and possibly dario dario fry, but some of his scales look as though there is something whitish under them, raising them up ever so slightly. I know what *pineconing* and/or dropsy looks like - this is not it. It is not affecting his whole body, mostly the scales where I suppose his neck and shoulders would be. I love this guy and do not want to lose him. Also, I think I may have a breeding pair of Dario in this tank, and don't want to lose them either. The dario require live food for the most part. Maybe this is my problem, as I feed mosquito larvae from a tank out back. It has no fish in it, so I assumed the water was safe for the fish. Actually, I have betta fry and also use this green water in their tank. They all seem fine so far, and are actually about a month old. Water parameters are all good, ph is around 7. I can try to take a photo, if I can get a good close-up. Hope someone has some suggestions for me. ~ Laurie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48313	From: Ray	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish

Please supply your water parameters. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > In my 20 gallon community tank, filtered with fluval canister, diy co2, tons of plants, driftwood, moss, night-time airstone, 1 of my 2 glass cats had what looked like a fungus inside his body, on his spine. I began treatment with Tetracycline, as I was told fungus will not infect the inside of the fish. I also have shrimp in this tank. The catfish was still voraciously eating and acting normal. Then small white spots began appearing first on his fins, then later all over his body. It did not look like ich, and the only other fish affected was the gorgeous blue, crowntail betta. I continued the tetracycline treatment, and added kordon's ich +. I then added salt to the regimen. Nothing helped. The glass cat continued to get worse. I did several PWC's over the course of treatment, and he finally succomed. Did another 50% water change, and stopped all treatment as it did not seem to be working anyway. The betta is still pigging out on baby > shrimp and possibly dario dario fry, but some of his scales look as though there is something whitish under them, raising them up ever so slightly. I know what *pineconing* and/or dropsy looks like - this is not it. It is not affecting his whole body, mostly the scales where I suppose his neck and shoulders would be. > > I love this guy and do not want to lose him. Also, I think I may have a breeding pair of Dario in this tank, and don't want to lose them either. The dario require live food for the most part. Maybe this is my problem, as I feed mosquito larvae from a tank out back. It has no fish in it, so I assumed the water was safe for the fish. Actually, I have betta fry and also use this green water in their tank. They all seem fine so far, and are actually about a month old. > > Water parameters are all good, ph is around 7. > > I can try to take a photo, if I can get a good close-up. > > Hope someone has some suggestions for me. > > ~ Laurie > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48314	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish

As Ray mentioned, giving us all of your water parameters can sometimes help a little or a lot. This means ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (in the morning before lights on and near the end of day before lights out). Have you added any new fish, plants or critters recently... other than the mosquito larvae from the green water tank in your back yard. Also give us a complete list of fish that you do have in the 20G and how many of each. See my blog's "Sick Fish Questionnaire" and read through that and give us any other information that you haven't already supplied. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html OR http://tinyurl.com/Sick-Fish-Questionnaire The Ich medication isn't likely needed since what you are describing is NOT Ich.... although your description changes between P2 and P5, below. I want to clear some things up though. I have broken up your longer paragraphs into more manageable paragraphs below, for easier reading/answering. In P2, below, you mention what looked like a fungus inside his body but since it's a glass catfish, I'm guessing this is either something on the other side that appears to be inside BUT I did some Googling and found this old 2007 thread, in another forum, about the same thing as you describe. http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/59150-glass -catfish-problem/ OR http://tinyurl.com/2fd47p2 There's not much help as far as answers though the final post mentions that raising the temperature in the tank seemed to make the glass catfish go clear again. Has your temperature dropped recently? Other info I read said that when glass catfish get sick, they will get cloudy so it could just be a coincidence that raising the temperature along with the other meds they were using made the fish well enough to turn clear again. Concerning the small white spots mentioned in P5 below, which you say does not look like Ich, then tell us how big these spots are. "Small" is so subjective. Are the spots the size of grains of salt or larger or smaller? Are the spots 1/8", 1/4", bigger or give us something that we will know to compare the spots to. In the future, DO NOT start throwing all kinds of meds at a problem unless or until you are getting good advice to do so. Sometimes folks over-medicate or mix things that shouldn't be mixed and that can cause as many problems as the illness. I'm guessing you do not have a tank to use as a hospital tank. It's a good idea to at least have a 5G or 10G tank or even a Sterilite storage container to use as a hospital/quarantine tank so that you can medicate one or more sick fish without subjecting all of the other fish to all of the meds. If you have a digital camera, take LOTS of pictures and hopefully a few of them will come out good. That's the good thing about digital cameras compared to old film cameras where taking a 100 pictures and hoping for a couple of good ones was an expensive task. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick fish In my 20 gallon community tank, filtered with fluval canister, diy co2, tons of plants, driftwood, moss, night-time airstone 1 of my 2 glass cats had what looked like a fungus inside his body, on his spine. I began treatment with Tetracycline, as I was told fungus will not infect the inside of the fish. I also have shrimp in this tank. The catfish was still voraciously eating and acting normal. Then small white spots began appearing first on his fins, then later all over his body. It did not look like ich, and the only other fish affected was the gorgeous blue, crowntail betta. I continued the tetracycline treatment, and added kordon's ich +. I then added salt to the regimen. Nothing helped. The glass cat continued to get worse. I did several PWC's over the course of treatment, and he finally succomed. Did another 50% water change, and stopped all treatment as it did not seem to be working anyway. The betta is still pigging out on baby shrimp and possibly dario dario fry, but some of his scales look as though there is something whitish under them, raising them up ever so slightly. I know what *pineconing* and/or dropsy looks like - this is not it. It is not affecting his whole body, mostly the scales where I suppose his neck and shoulders would be. I love this guy and do not want to lose him. Also, I think I may have a breeding pair of Dario in this tank, and don't want to lose them either. The dario require live food for the most part. Maybe this is my problem, as I feed mosquito larvae from a tank out back. It has no fish in it, so I assumed the water was safe for the fish. Actually, I have betta fry and also use this green water in their tank. They all seem fine so far, and are actually about a month old. Water parameters are all good, ph is around 7. I can try to take a photo, if I can get a good close-up. Hope someone has some suggestions for me. ~ Laurie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48315	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Ready to start w/Ammonia

Alright. I have the regular test kit - boy am I gonna grow to hate those little foil packets. :) I did find straight Ammonia at Ace - none of the others (including the Parsons I located) were free of additives. The label says it is 10%. My readings (test kit's desired levels in parens) this morning were: Nitrite: 0 (0-2) Nitrate 10 (0-100) Ammonia .2 (0 - .8) Alkalinity 2.5 (0 - .5) pH 8.2 (7.8 - 8.6) I don't remember having to wait such long interims when I was using liquid reagents. Is that the issue or have the tests changed? When using the test strips the alkalinity tested fine. I will test again in the am and we will clarify if it is operator error or not... Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48316	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia

Which brand test kit did you get? You mention foil packets so I'm thinking you got one of the very good but very expensive kits.. the Kordon Aqua Tru kit... which are good kits BUT I think the API Master Test Kit would have been much better for your Fishless Cycling and the daily testing you will be doing. You do not get very many tests per dollar with the kit you most likely have, compared to the API kit which will give you hundreds of tests for the $15.00 to $25.00 master kit with the added combo GH/KH kit for another $7.00. If money is no option, then it's fine to stick with your current kit and keep buying LOTS of refills but if you don't like throwing money away, then you might still want to order the API kit from Walmart.com so you'll have it in a few days to a week... and save your "good" kit for once you are past the cycling phase. Give us more info on what your kit describe as "Alkalinity". It's not a good term to use for what we are actually testing since alkaline is the scientific term for a measure of the buffering capacity of water, or the capacity of bases to neutralize acids. It's not a bad thing to have or know but knowing the actual GH (General Hardness) and KH (Carbonate Hardness) are more important numbers to know IMO. If I'm not mistaken, on the test strips for dummies, they use "Alkalinity" in place of General Hardness or possibly Carbonate Hardness (I forget since it's been so long since I've looked at them) so you could be comparing apples to zucchini. Most of the tests with API are either instant or in just a minute with one test taking five minutes. I start that one first and then do the others while that one is processing so I know all my numbers in under ten minutes, including the prep and cleanup time. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 10:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ready to start w/Ammonia Alright. I have the regular test kit - boy am I gonna grow to hate those little foil packets. :) I did find straight Ammonia at Ace - none of the others (including the Parsons I located) were free of additives. The label says it is 10%. My readings (test kit's desired levels in parens) this morning were: Nitrite: 0 (0-2) Nitrate 10 (0-100) Ammonia .2 (0 - .8) Alkalinity 2.5 (0 - .5) pH 8.2 (7.8 - 8.6) I don't remember having to wait such long interims when I was using liquid reagents. Is that the issue or have the tests changed? When using the test strips the alkalinity tested fine. I will test again in the am and we will clarify if it is operator error or not... Janet ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48317	From: Ray	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish

Laurie, From your post, it appears that while you at first observed what looked to you like Fungus on (in) one of the Glass Catfish, when you went to your LFS (local fish store to get a medication to treat this you were corrected in your first assumption and told it couldn't be a fungal infection -- and so, you were prescribed Tetracycline -- obviously to clear up a bacterial infection (as I'm sure you must have then been aware), since it wasn't a Fungus issue. Lenny has offered some good coverage on your dilema, including an excellent link he has found on a similar catfish problem -- and including suggestion of your supplying more pertinent information in this, as he has outlined. In almost any situation of fish illness, it helps us to help you in giving you a more accurate assessment of what is going on, and how you may proceed, when having these most important facts to start with. While levels for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are always very helpful for us to know -- in NUMBERS -- not just "good," "fair," "poor," "excellent" or otherwise -- to be helpful to us, we need to know specifically what your test readings are. In this case however, in addition to the above parameters, I am particularly looking for readings of pH, GH, KH and temperature. Your pH reading (of "around 7") is noted, although a more accurarate reading would be helpful -- unless you actually meant "7.0,' but with that, I would need the reading for your General Hardness and for your Temporary Hardness to be able to determine if the Tetracycline prescribed could even have any potency at your parameter levels. With hard water, and with high levels of calcium and/or magnesium, Teracycline loses its potency above pH 7.5 as it binds with these elements. Even if your pH were not quite that high (let's say, it was 7.3), the harder your water is, the greater the propensity for the Tetracycline to bind with these elements as your pH increases away from neutral -- even if it doesn't bind completely with these elements -- substantially reducing the potency of this medication. Is this seems to be an internal bacterial infection though, Tetracycline is far from being the most effective antibiotic anyway, under these circumstances (regardless of any of your water parameter values), as this medication is not one that is normally readily absorbed internally. For treatments of internal bacteria infections, the medication of choice would be either Kanamycin Sulfate (as SeaChem's "KanaPlex") or Minocycline (as Mardell's "Maracyn 2"). One most important point to remember in treating ANY catfish though, is that any medications are best used for them at half-strength, since they are scaleless and will absorb any dissolved organic or inorganic solids (even medications) all too readily -- to the extent that these foreign substances may (and often do) become toxic to them, although if only one of yours died, it may have been because the medication was improper rather than it having been poisoned. I was also at first, looking for a temperature for the very reason that Lenny found in his supplied link. As Glass Catfish are known to be prone to such infections, especially at lower temperatures, a higher range -- even of 82 o, temporarily -- would boost the immune system of the organism, allowing it to better combat the infection. As this sounds to be a bacterial infection in the Betta, I would go with the use of either of the two medications suggested. Do not use salt, not only as your remaining Glass Catfish is sensitive to salt, but because your Betta is also. The size of these small white spots is something we really need to know to proceed further, You stated that you didn't think it was Ich, yet I noticed you used Kordon's "Ich +" (Rid Ich + -- ?) , which I have a problem understanding why -- especially since you felt you don't have Ich. Medications should never be used indiscriminately. FYI, Kordon's "Rid Ich +" contains Formaldahyde and Malachite Green;" you can't hardly use much harsher chemicals on your fish! Additionally, Kordon's "Rid Ich +" is specifically recommended BY KORDON, not to be used for scaleless fish -- and your Glass Catfish are scaleless fish. The reason again being, that these chemicals are toxic to these fish as they are absorbed too freely right into the body since these fish do not have the use of protective scale to prevent this. When medications are used hap-hazardly, they can often do much more harm than good. Thd harshness of these chemicals may well be what's now adversely affecting your Betta to the point of this stress is causes him to contract his illness. Remove these medications at once, although not all by doing large partial water changes (do only moderate PWC's), and remove the remainder by use of carbon in your filter. Once these medications are removed, be prepared to administer a half-dose of KanaPlex -- but again, not before advising us as to the size of these "small white spots" -- which may require an alternate approach (photos are welcome!). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As Ray mentioned, giving us all of your water parameters can sometimes help > a little or a lot. This means ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (in the morning > before lights on and near the end of day before lights out). > > Have you added any new fish, plants or critters recently... other than the > mosquito larvae from the green water tank in your back yard. Also give us a > complete list of fish that you do have in the 20G and how many of each. > > See my blog's "Sick Fish Questionnaire" and read through that and give us > any other information that you haven't already supplied. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html OR > http://tinyurl.com/Sick-Fish-Questionnaire > > The Ich medication isn't likely needed since what you are describing is NOT > Ich.... although your description changes between P2 and P5, below. > > I want to clear some things up though. I have broken up your longer > paragraphs into more manageable paragraphs below, for easier > reading/answering. > > In P2, below, you mention what looked like a fungus inside his body but > since it's a glass catfish, I'm guessing this is either something on the > other side that appears to be inside BUT I did some Googling and found this > old 2007 thread, in another forum, about the same thing as you describe. > http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/59150-glass > -catfish-problem/ OR http://tinyurl.com/2fd47p2 There's not much help as > far as answers though the final post mentions that raising the temperature > in the tank seemed to make the glass catfish go clear again. Has your > temperature dropped recently? Other info I read said that when glass > catfish get sick, they will get cloudy so it could just be a coincidence > that raising the temperature along with the other meds they were using made > the fish well enough to turn clear again. > > Concerning the small white spots mentioned in P5 below, which you say does > not look like Ich, then tell us how big these spots are. "Small" is so > subjective. Are the spots the size of grains of salt or larger or smaller? > Are the spots 1/8", 1/4", bigger or give us something that we will know to > compare the spots to. > > In the future, DO NOT start throwing all kinds of meds at a problem unless > or until you are getting good advice to do so. Sometimes folks > over-medicate or mix things that shouldn't be mixed and that can cause as > many problems as the illness. > > I'm guessing you do not have a tank to use as a hospital tank. It's a good > idea to at least have a 5G or 10G tank or even a Sterilite storage container > to use as a hospital/quarantine tank so that you can medicate one or more > sick fish without subjecting all of the other fish to all of the meds. > > If you have a digital camera, take LOTS of pictures and hopefully a few of > them will come out good. That's the good thing about digital cameras > compared to old film cameras where taking a 100 pictures and hoping for a > couple of good ones was an expensive task. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick fish > > In my 20 gallon community tank, filtered with fluval canister, diy co2, tons > of plants, driftwood, moss, night-time airstone > > 1 of my 2 glass cats had what looked like a fungus inside his body, on his > spine. I began treatment with Tetracycline, as I was told fungus will not > infect the inside of the fish. > > I also have shrimp in this tank. > > The catfish was still voraciously eating and acting normal. > > Then small white spots began appearing first on his fins, then later all > over his body. It did not look like ich, and the only other fish affected > was the gorgeous blue, crowntail betta. I continued the tetracycline > treatment, and added kordon's ich +. I then added salt to the regimen. > Nothing helped. The glass cat continued to get worse. > > I did several PWC's over the course of treatment, and he finally succomed. > > Did another 50% water change, and stopped all treatment as it did not seem > to be working anyway. > > The betta is still pigging out on baby shrimp and possibly dario dario fry, > but some of his scales look as though there is something whitish under them, > raising them up ever so slightly. I know what *pineconing* and/or dropsy > looks like - this is not it. It is not affecting his whole body, mostly the > scales where I suppose his neck and shoulders would be. I love this guy and > do not want to lose him. > > Also, I think I may have a breeding pair of Dario in this tank, and don't > want to lose them either. The dario require live food for the most part. > > Maybe this is my problem, as I feed mosquito larvae from a tank out back. > It has no fish in it, so I assumed the water was safe for the fish. > Actually, I have betta fry and also use this green water in their tank. > They all seem fine so far, and are actually about a month old. > > Water parameters are all good, ph is around 7. > > I can try to take a photo, if I can get a good close-up. > > Hope someone has some suggestions for me. > > ~ Laurie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48318	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia

Having the reagents in powdered form means that they will have a longer shelf life than the liquid reagents, which will start to degrade faster once the container has been opened. (A side note here, sort of directed at Lenny, if our girl Janet did get the AquaTru test kit by Kordon, she could not have done better. The way they are designed makes it very easy to get an accurate reading on the color scale. Good job Janet.) Are these readings from your tank, or are they the first readings for your baseline tests of your tap water. If for your tank, it is rather interesting you have ammonia readings and nitrate readings, but no nitrite. The nitrates may be coming from your tap water, or, for some reason, you are experiencing what may be called a mini-cycle in your tank. Normally, you would start with just an ammonia reading. As the bacteria develop for ammonia, they will create nitrite while lowering the ammonia. Then the bacteria that use nitrite will begin to develop and the nitrite level will start to decrease as the nitrate level rises. Nitrates appear to be a no-no in marine tanks, except at very low levels (and we are talking low single digits here), though the type of marine tank may allow for a higher nitrate level, but still much lower than one can have in a freshwater tank. Any increase in time over the liquid reagent kits for the tests to be done would be to ensure the powdered reagent has a chance to fully dissolve so an accurate reading is given, but that increase in time would be rather miniscule. One's memory may have compressed the time aspect or <gasp> one may have been shortcutting the liquid tests way back then. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ready to start w/Ammonia Alright. I have the regular test kit - boy am I gonna grow to hate those little foil packets. :) I did find straight Ammonia at Ace - none of the others (including the Parsons I located) were free of additives. The label says it is 10%. My readings (test kit's desired levels in parens) this morning were: Nitrite: 0 (0-2) Nitrate 10 (0-100) Ammonia .2 (0 - .8) Alkalinity 2.5 (0 - .5) pH 8.2 (7.8 - 8.6) I don't remember having to wait such long interims when I was using liquid reagents. Is that the issue or have the tests changed? When using the test strips the alkalinity tested fine. I will test again in the am and we will clarify if it is operator error or not... Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48319	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia

I got the OceanMaster by Marineland. I can't do the tests concurrently because it has one vial; the color chips come out so you just put the correct chip in. Here is the descriptions: pH (ready immediately) fine print (need magnifying glass) explains nitrification creates acid bringing this down and clarifying ideal range is 8.1 to 8.3; big print says 7.8-8.6 Ammonia add a packet, shake 1 min, wait 3 min, add another packet, shake wait 15-20 min. ideal level 0 - .8 milligrams/liter (Ammonia-Nitrogen) Nitrite low range add packet shake 1 min wait 10 min; high range use dropper to add small amt of tank water fill with fresh water treat as above Nitrate add packet shake 1 ine wait 3 min Alkalinity: fill small vial pour into Titration vial. add reagent 1 drop at time, swirl to mix. initial color blue; if yellow empty and start precision test. add drops until color is yellow-green. divide number of drops by 2 of milliequivalents per liter. For precision test you use two of the smal vials of water. recommended levels fish-only 2.5 to 4.0 reef 3.5 - 4.5. Fine print explains the acid produced by nitrification destroys buffering capability and decline in pH. a 25-30% water change fixes things. or add SeaBuffer pH Alkalinity Booster. it goes on to say if alk is high and pH low check for CO2 and talks about calcium reactors. Your routine of testing is much more what I was expecting. Granted it was the first time I used it but it still took me a full 45 minutes. I couldn't help but think ohh man what about when I hae 4 tanks! (community, reef, octopus, sea horse) Its not that money doesn't matter - I work hard for it - but I'm willing to put an initial investment into this project so that I can do it right. But if I can get good results easier (not necessarily cheaper; in this case the time *45 mins vs 10 mins daily* is more important) thats always better! :) I'm using mid-tank water. salinity is a bit low at 1.021 I'll adjust that tonight, if I'm going to do the ammonia conditioning I won't want to do a PWC yet, right? Temp is 80 degrees. Hey, can I use one of the remote sensors sold as indoor/outdoor? (fine wire usually run under a window/sill?) Or does the salt water corrode the wire too quickly. Todays test results mirror yesterdays except the Alkalinity has increased from 2.5 to 4 and pH declined from 8.2 to 8. Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48320	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia

These are the tank readings. I am assuming (yeah, I know) the ammonia/nitrate levels are being produced by the live sand/live rock. Since I didn't test for the first week (and then tested with the strips recommended by my LFS) we don't know where I am in the cycle. <sigh> I would have followed the test directions carefully even then; it is possible that my memory has compressed somewhat but not likely that much. (I'm turning 50 this year, not senile yet!) I monitored the ammonia test this time (thats the one that takes 15-20 mins) and there was no change over the last 15 minutes. I'll look into the Kordon test, I like "atta girls!". <grin> Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48321	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia

WELL... not withstanding \\Steve's// high praise of the Kordon Aqua Tru kit, and I'm not saying it's not a good kit, as it is... BUT the API kit is still the best thing to use, when you consider price and quality AND especially when cycling a tank since you will be doing nearly daily testing. The packets of reagent from Kordon costs around $1.00 a test if I recall the pricing correctly. Once again, when doing weekly or monthly testing, this might be OK but for daily testing, it can get rather WAY OVERPRICED, especially when it's not needed by most folks. I'm sure \\Steve// will counter my above comment. Of course, I think he owns stock in Kordon's Aqua Tru test kits. Come on \\Steve//.... we want full disclosure here!!! ;-) Oh... BTW... I do NOT own stock in API or Walmart.com... well, maybe one of my mutual funds might own some Walmart stock but I'm pretty sure a few $15.00 test kit sales aren't going to affect Walmart's stock price... now, if I can get a few million people buying the test kits from Walmart.com, then I might make a dollar or two. LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ready to start w/Ammonia These are the tank readings. I am assuming (yeah, I know) the ammonia/nitrate levels are being produced by the live sand/live rock. Since I didn't test for the first week (and then tested with the strips recommended by my LFS) we don't know where I am in the cycle. <sigh> I would have followed the test directions carefully even then; it is possible that my memory has compressed somewhat but not likely that much. (I'm turning 50 this year, not senile yet!) I monitored the ammonia test this time (thats the one that takes 15-20 mins) and there was no change over the last 15 minutes. I'll look into the Kordon test, I like "atta girls!". <grin> Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48322	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia

I'll answer your reply inline, starting with "LENNY -" since we're getting into the nitty-gritty now. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ready to start w/Ammonia I got the OceanMaster by Marineland. I can't do the tests concurrently because it has one vial; the color chips come out so you just put the correct chip in. LENNY - Ouch... one vial seems kind of well.. vile! ;-) The API kit comes with four test tubes and while the instructions have the tests being done in a certain order, most users of the API kit quickly learn to start with the longest test first so that while it is doing the 5 minute wait thing, the other tests can be done and have all results done in five minutes. ---------- Here is the descriptions: pH (ready immediately) fine print (need magnifying glass) explains nitrification creates acid bringing this down and clarifying ideal range is 8.1 to 8.3; big print says 7.8-8.6 Ammonia add a packet, shake 1 min, wait 3 min, add another packet, shake wait 15-20 min. ideal level 0 - .8 milligrams/liter (Ammonia-Nitrogen) Nitrite low range add packet shake 1 min wait 10 min; high range use dropper to add small amt of tank water fill with fresh water treat as above Nitrate add packet shake 1 ine wait 3 min Alkalinity: fill small vial pour into Titration vial. add reagent 1 drop at time, swirl to mix. initial color blue; if yellow empty and start precision test. add drops until color is yellow-green. divide number of drops by 2 of milliequivalents per liter. For precision test you use two of the smal vials of water. recommended levels fish-only 2.5 to 4.0 reef 3.5 - 4.5. Fine print explains the acid produced by nitrification destroys buffering capability and decline in pH. a 25-30% water change fixes things. or add SeaBuffer pH Alkalinity Booster. it goes on to say if alk is high and pH low check for CO2 and talks about calcium reactors. LENNY - Wow... some of those wait times are pretty long. API's kit is looking better and better to me. ;-) I'm also not sure about their "ideal level" recommendations for ammonia being as high as 0.8mgl (or 0.8ppm) (note - mgl is the same as ppm = parts per million, for all practical purposes at our level of testing) Ammonia and Nitrite should ALWAYS be 0.0ppm once a tank is fully cycled. Any test results showing any level of ammonia or nitrite, once a tank is fully cycled, means something isn't right. LENNY - \\Steve// mentioned, in an earlier post, something that I missed about your previous test results where you showed 10ppm of Nitrates. This level is sometimes the level that will come right out of your tap water and the EPA allows up to 10ppm as a safe level for humans. Most water utilities do not have this level but it is sometimes seen when a utility gets the water from a reservoir that might get farm run-off or have other causes of high nitrogenous waste levels in the water. Your tap water baseline testing will confirm this and IF you do have that level of nitrates out of your tap, then you may have to look at other sources of water for your SW tanks, such as an RO filter system. You can also look at your water utility's water quality report, usually available online, for more details about your water quality. ---------- Your routine of testing is much more what I was expecting. Granted it was the first time I used it but it still took me a full 45 minutes. I couldn't help but think ohh man what about when I hae 4 tanks! (community, reef, octopus, sea horse) LENNY - Well, hopefully you won't be cycling all of these tanks at the same time ---------- Its not that money doesn't matter - I work hard for it - but I'm willing to put an initial investment into this project so that I can do it right. But if I can get good results easier (not necessarily cheaper; in this case the time *45 mins vs 10 mins daily* is more important) thats always better! :) LENNY - Well you should DEFINITELY order the API kit from Walmart.com. Time is money so saving over a half-hour a day, while cycling, would be a BIG time saver and money saver for you. ----------- I'm using mid-tank water. salinity is a bit low at 1.021 I'll adjust that tonight, if I'm going to do the ammonia conditioning I won't want to do a PWC yet, right? Temp is 80 degrees. Hey, can I use one of the remote sensors sold as indoor/outdoor? (fine wire usually run under a window/sill?) Or does the salt water corrode the wire too quickly. LENNY - The wire will not work, IMO. If you want quick and easy temperature testing, get one of the stick on LCD temperature gauges, like this http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3900 (I use these on my tanks for a quick glance to know the temp is where it should be) and then if you want electronic testing, you can get this http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12089 (on sale for only $7.99 right now), that is available with the kind of probe that will withstand the salt water. ---------- Todays test results mirror yesterdays except the Alkalinity has increased from 2.5 to 4 and pH declined from 8.2 to 8. LENNY - I'm not sure why the Alkalinity would have changed that much, that fast but since it coincides with a change in pH, it could be related to CO2 levels. It could also be you getting use to the testing BUT it's also a good idea to test at the same time every day or at least note the time you test so that if you see a difference, we can explore why. Earlier in this post, you noted the directions about the Alkalinity test and it mentioned how CO2 levels can affect this test result. CO2 levels also affect pH levels. I'm not sure how much algae you have, if any, but possibly other organisms might be putting out more CO2 at one time of the day, such as when the lights are on all day, compared to first thing in the morning. I know that in our FW aquariums and ponds, the pH level can change a LOT from morning to evening as the plants and algae suck up CO2 during the day and then quit using it at night. I'm not as familiar about SW micro-organisms and how they might change their O2 and CO2 input/output during the day and night. Please note that while fish can be adversely affected by pH swings, they are not affected by pH changes caused by natural CO2 level changes related to photosynthesis. God works in mysterious ways. ;-) Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48323	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia

After I sent you the reply I actually read the subject line (horrors!) and determined it was the tank. Again, not being a marine guy, I am surprised at the amount of time the ammonia test takes. I'd probably look to see if I could get some extra vials for testing so that I could do other tests while waiting for the ammonia test to complete. That should compress your time somewhat. Would it be presumptuous to remind you to rinse the vial thoroughly after each test with tap water? While I am past the age you mention, some people have been questioning the way my mind works since I was a kid. I've gotten used to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 8:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ready to start w/Ammonia These are the tank readings. I am assuming (yeah, I know) the ammonia/nitrate levels are being produced by the live sand/live rock. Since I didn't test for the first week (and then tested with the strips recommended by my LFS) we don't know where I am in the cycle. <sigh> I would have followed the test directions carefully even then; it is possible that my memory has compressed somewhat but not likely that much. (I'm turning 50 this year, not senile yet!) I monitored the ammonia test this time (thats the one that takes 15-20 mins) and there was no change over the last 15 minutes. I'll look into the Kordon test, I like "atta girls!". <grin> Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48324	From: melindas	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Fungus help.

I bought two African Dwarf frogs last weekend and I noticed Saturday that One of them was slightly fuzzy, and I assume its a fungus from them not eating their food and it dirtying the water. I cleaned the tank and put a few pieces of salt in it. Is there anything else can do for it? Its only a gallon tank they live in.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48325	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish

Details - In this tank are 3 Dario Dario, 1 of which is now swimming with clamped fins and is rubbing on plants - no visible spots on body or fins. Also, 1 betta, 1 glass cat, 2 otos, 2 cardinals and 3 male endlers. 2 Amano shrimp, and maybe 10 RCS. Substrate is flourite. Filter medium is 2 sponges, I removed the ceramic tube pieces to make room for a bag of carbon. Temp is usually 80 or 82. I have lowered a bit, which I now think I should have left it. It is now 78, and had not gone lower than that. After a 40% water change yesterday with tap water, my ammonia is 0, nitrite 0, nitrate is surprisingly high - at least 40 but less than 80 with an API test kit. It is difficult to be more precise with this kit. GH is 13, KH 8. PH this morning before the lights went on - 7.8 The nitrate surprised me. What would make it so high? I have used plant tabs in this tank recently - would that do it? And now that 1 dario is acting strange, it reminds me of when this all started. I guess it was about 3 months ago. I bought a pair of Dario from a LFS. Silly me, I added them to this tank w/o quarantine. They looked very healthy in the tank at the store - my bad. Anyway, they were doing great for at least 3 weeks, then the male started looking like he was breathing heavily. He went off food and died. Everyone else in the tank was fine. I bought 2 new Dario and again put them into the tank - no quarantine. I think I have learned my lesson. I have since read that Dario do not like high nitrate levels. Everything had been fine for at least a month, when the catfish got sick. The other glass cat has 1 spot, the size of this period. It also looks like it has a bit of white on both barbels, just 1 area on each, maybe a sixteenth of an inch long, or shorter - hard to tell. Here are some pics. Can't tell on the betta, and actually, he looks better than he did. The glass cat fish has 1 spot near the bottom fin, behind the head. In the blurry pic, (38) you can see it more clearly. In pic 24, you can see the spot on the barbel. The glass cat that died started out with something around it's spine, almost a faint (very) pink mass about an eighth of an inch long and half that wide. It wasn't until AFTER that showed up that small white spots appeared, of varying sizes, but mostly slightly larger than ich spots. These increased in quantity, despite the water changes and medications. I guess I was using the wrong meds - it is sooooooo difficult to get the right diagnosis. You guys are great - you have taught me so much. Thanks for all the fishes you have helped, and the aquarists that you have schooled. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, June 5, 2010 7:42:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick fish As Ray mentioned, giving us all of your water parameters can sometimes help a little or a lot. This means ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (in the morning before lights on and near the end of day before lights out). Have you added any new fish, plants or critters recently... other than the mosquito larvae from the green water tank in your back yard. Also give us a complete list of fish that you do have in the 20G and how many of each. See my blog's "Sick Fish Questionnaire" and read through that and give us any other information that you haven't already supplied. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html OR http://tinyurl.com/Sick-Fish-Questionnaire The Ich medication isn't likely needed since what you are describing is NOT Ich.... although your description changes between P2 and P5, below. I want to clear some things up though. I have broken up your longer paragraphs into more manageable paragraphs below, for easier reading/answering. In P2, below, you mention what looked like a fungus inside his body but since it's a glass catfish, I'm guessing this is either something on the other side that appears to be inside BUT I did some Googling and found this old 2007 thread, in another forum, about the same thing as you describe. http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/59150-glass -catfish-problem/ OR http://tinyurl.com/2fd47p2 There's not much help as far as answers though the final post mentions that raising the temperature in the tank seemed to make the glass catfish go clear again. Has your temperature dropped recently? Other info I read said that when glass catfish get sick, they will get cloudy so it could just be a coincidence that raising the temperature along with the other meds they were using made the fish well enough to turn clear again. Concerning the small white spots mentioned in P5 below, which you say does not look like Ich, then tell us how big these spots are. "Small" is so subjective. Are the spots the size of grains of salt or larger or smaller? Are the spots 1/8", 1/4", bigger or give us something that we will know to compare the spots to. In the future, DO NOT start throwing all kinds of meds at a problem unless or until you are getting good advice to do so. Sometimes folks over-medicate or mix things that shouldn't be mixed and that can cause as many problems as the illness. I'm guessing you do not have a tank to use as a hospital tank. It's a good idea to at least have a 5G or 10G tank or even a Sterilite storage container to use as a hospital/quarantine tank so that you can medicate one or more sick fish without subjecting all of the other fish to all of the meds. If you have a digital camera, take LOTS of pictures and hopefully a few of them will come out good. That's the good thing about digital cameras compared to old film cameras where taking a 100 pictures and hoping for a couple of good ones was an expensive task. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick fish In my 20 gallon community tank, filtered with fluval canister, diy co2, tons of plants, driftwood, moss, night-time airstone 1 of my 2 glass cats had what looked like a fungus inside his body, on his spine. I began treatment with Tetracycline, as I was told fungus will not infect the inside of the fish. I also have shrimp in this tank. The catfish was still voraciously eating and acting normal. Then small white spots began appearing first on his fins, then later all over his body. It did not look like ich, and the only other fish affected was the gorgeous blue, crowntail betta. I continued the tetracycline treatment, and added kordon's ich +. I then added salt to the regimen. Nothing helped. The glass cat continued to get worse. I did several PWC's over the course of treatment, and he finally succomed. Did another 50% water change, and stopped all treatment as it did not seem to be working anyway. The betta is still pigging out on baby shrimp and possibly dario dario fry, but some of his scales look as though there is something whitish under them, raising them up ever so slightly. I know what *pineconing* and/or dropsy looks like - this is not it. It is not affecting his whole body, mostly the scales where I suppose his neck and shoulders would be. I love this guy and do not want to lose him. Also, I think I may have a breeding pair of Dario in this tank, and don't want to lose them either. The dario require live food for the most part. Maybe this is my problem, as I feed mosquito larvae from a tank out back. It has no fish in it, so I assumed the water was safe for the fish. Actually, I have betta fry and also use this green water in their tank. They all seem fine so far, and are actually about a month old. Water parameters are all good, ph is around 7. I can try to take a photo, if I can get a good close-up. Hope someone has some suggestions for me. ~ Laurie ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48326	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish

One thing I should add, is that the initial discoloration of the glass cat that died was def. internal, while the subsequent spots appeared on the outside of it's body. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 1:57:44 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Sick fish Laurie, From your post, it appears that while you at first observed what looked to you like Fungus on (in) one of the Glass Catfish, when you went to your LFS (local fish store to get a medication to treat this you were corrected in your first assumption and told it couldn't be a fungal infection -- and so, you were prescribed Tetracycline -- obviously to clear up a bacterial infection (as I'm sure you must have then been aware), since it wasn't a Fungus issue. Lenny has offered some good coverage on your dilema, including an excellent link he has found on a similar catfish problem -- and including suggestion of your supplying more pertinent information in this, as he has outlined. In almost any situation of fish illness, it helps us to help you in giving you a more accurate assessment of what is going on, and how you may proceed, when having these most important facts to start with. While levels for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are always very helpful for us to know -- in NUMBERS -- not just "good," "fair," "poor," "excellent" or otherwise -- to be helpful to us, we need to know specifically what your test readings are. In this case however, in addition to the above parameters, I am particularly looking for readings of pH, GH, KH and temperature. Your pH reading (of "around 7") is noted, although a more accurarate reading would be helpful -- unless you actually meant "7.0,' but with that, I would need the reading for your General Hardness and for your Temporary Hardness to be able to determine if the Tetracycline prescribed could even have any potency at your parameter levels. With hard water, and with high levels of calcium and/or magnesium, Teracycline loses its potency above pH 7.5 as it binds with these elements. Even if your pH were not quite that high (let's say, it was 7.3), the harder your water is, the greater the propensity for the Tetracycline to bind with these elements as your pH increases away from neutral -- even if it doesn't bind completely with these elements -- substantially reducing the potency of this medication. Is this seems to be an internal bacterial infection though, Tetracycline is far from being the most effective antibiotic anyway, under these circumstances (regardless of any of your water parameter values), as this medication is not one that is normally readily absorbed internally. For treatments of internal bacteria infections, the medication of choice would be either Kanamycin Sulfate (as SeaChem's "KanaPlex") or Minocycline (as Mardell's "Maracyn 2"). One most important point to remember in treating ANY catfish though, is that any medications are best used for them at half-strength, since they are scaleless and will absorb any dissolved organic or inorganic solids (even medications) all too readily -- to the extent that these foreign substances may (and often do) become toxic to them, although if only one of yours died, it may have been because the medication was improper rather than it having been poisoned. I was also at first, looking for a temperature for the very reason that Lenny found in his supplied link. As Glass Catfish are known to be prone to such infections, especially at lower temperatures, a higher range -- even of 82 o, temporarily -- would boost the immune system of the organism, allowing it to better combat the infection. As this sounds to be a bacterial infection in the Betta, I would go with the use of either of the two medications suggested. Do not use salt, not only as your remaining Glass Catfish is sensitive to salt, but because your Betta is also. The size of these small white spots is something we really need to know to proceed further, You stated that you didn't think it was Ich, yet I noticed you used Kordon's "Ich +" (Rid Ich + -- ?) , which I have a problem understanding why -- especially since you felt you don't have Ich. Medications should never be used indiscriminately. FYI, Kordon's "Rid Ich +" contains Formaldahyde and Malachite Green;" you can't hardly use much harsher chemicals on your fish! Additionally, Kordon's "Rid Ich +" is specifically recommended BY KORDON, not to be used for scaleless fish -- and your Glass Catfish are scaleless fish. The reason again being, that these chemicals are toxic to these fish as they are absorbed too freely right into the body since these fish do not have the use of protective scale to prevent this. When medications are used hap-hazardly, they can often do much more harm than good. Thd harshness of these chemicals may well be what's now adversely affecting your Betta to the point of this stress is causes him to contract his illness. Remove these medications at once, although not all by doing large partial water changes (do only moderate PWC's), and remove the remainder by use of carbon in your filter. Once these medications are removed, be prepared to administer a half-dose of KanaPlex -- but again, not before advising us as to the size of these "small white spots" -- which may require an alternate approach (photos are welcome!). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > As Ray mentioned, giving us all of your water parameters can sometimes help > a little or a lot. This means ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (in the morning > before lights on and near the end of day before lights out). > > Have you added any new fish, plants or critters recently... other than the > mosquito larvae from the green water tank in your back yard. Also give us a > complete list of fish that you do have in the 20G and how many of each. > > See my blog's "Sick Fish Questionnaire" and read through that and give us > any other information that you haven't already supplied. > http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html OR > http://tinyurl.com/Sick-Fish-Questionnaire > > The Ich medication isn't likely needed since what you are describing is NOT > Ich.... although your description changes between P2 and P5, below. > > I want to clear some things up though. I have broken up your longer > paragraphs into more manageable paragraphs below, for easier > reading/answering. > > In P2, below, you mention what looked like a fungus inside his body but > since it's a glass catfish, I'm guessing this is either something on the > other side that appears to be inside BUT I did some Googling and found this > old 2007 thread, in another forum, about the same thing as you describe. > http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/59150-glass > -catfish-problem/ OR http://tinyurl.com/2fd47p2 There's not much help as > far as answers though the final post mentions that raising the temperature > in the tank seemed to make the glass catfish go clear again. Has your > temperature dropped recently? Other info I read said that when glass > catfish get sick, they will get cloudy so it could just be a coincidence > that raising the temperature along with the other meds they were using made > the fish well enough to turn clear again. > > Concerning the small white spots mentioned in P5 below, which you say does > not look like Ich, then tell us how big these spots are. "Small" is so > subjective. Are the spots the size of grains of salt or larger or smaller? > Are the spots 1/8", 1/4", bigger or give us something that we will know to > compare the spots to. > > In the future, DO NOT start throwing all kinds of meds at a problem unless > or until you are getting good advice to do so. Sometimes folks > over-medicate or mix things that shouldn't be mixed and that can cause as > many problems as the illness. > > I'm guessing you do not have a tank to use as a hospital tank. It's a good > idea to at least have a 5G or 10G tank or even a Sterilite storage container > to use as a hospital/quarantine tank so that you can medicate one or more > sick fish without subjecting all of the other fish to all of the meds. > > If you have a digital camera, take LOTS of pictures and hopefully a few of > them will come out good. That's the good thing about digital cameras > compared to old film cameras where taking a 100 pictures and hoping for a > couple of good ones was an expensive task. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick fish > > In my 20 gallon community tank, filtered with fluval canister, diy co2, tons > of plants, driftwood, moss, night-time airstone > > 1 of my 2 glass cats had what looked like a fungus inside his body, on his > spine. I began treatment with Tetracycline, as I was told fungus will not > infect the inside of the fish. > > I also have shrimp in this tank. > > The catfish was still voraciously eating and acting normal. > > Then small white spots began appearing first on his fins, then later all > over his body. It did not look like ich, and the only other fish affected > was the gorgeous blue, crowntail betta. I continued the tetracycline > treatment, and added kordon's ich +. I then added salt to the regimen. > Nothing helped. The glass cat continued to get worse. > > I did several PWC's over the course of treatment, and he finally succomed. > > Did another 50% water change, and stopped all treatment as it did not seem > to be working anyway. > > The betta is still pigging out on baby shrimp and possibly dario dario fry, > but some of his scales look as though there is something whitish under them, > raising them up ever so slightly. I know what *pineconing* and/or dropsy > looks like - this is not it. It is not affecting his whole body, mostly the > scales where I suppose his neck and shoulders would be. I love this guy and > do not want to lose him. > > Also, I think I may have a breeding pair of Dario in this tank, and don't > want to lose them either. The dario require live food for the most part. > > Maybe this is my problem, as I feed mosquito larvae from a tank out back. > It has no fish in it, so I assumed the water was safe for the fish. > Actually, I have betta fry and also use this green water in their tank. > They all seem fine so far, and are actually about a month old. > > Water parameters are all good, ph is around 7. > > I can try to take a photo, if I can get a good close-up. > > Hope someone has some suggestions for me. > > ~ Laurie > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48327	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.

I am sure others will respond with better info, but in my experience, the frogs eat only live foods such as tubifex or black worms, baby guppies, baby shrimp, or brine shrimp. In any case, any uneaten food should be removed so as to not pollute the water, unless it is a live food which can survive in the tank. They also need heated water and good filtration. I would have them in a bigger tank with some live plants, heater, filter. These frogs shed their skin, which sometimes looks like it could be a fungus. Sometimes they eat the shed skin and sometimes not. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: melindas <melindaspicer@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 8:21:49 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus help. I bought two African Dwarf frogs last weekend and I noticed Saturday that One of them was slightly fuzzy, and I assume its a fungus from them not eating their food and it dirtying the water. I cleaned the tank and put a few pieces of salt in it. Is there anything else can do for it? Its only a gallon tank they live in. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48328	From: melindas	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.

I'm 110% they are not shedding, I have Firebelly toads and ACFs and I'm used to knowing what shedding looks like. ^^ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > I am sure others will respond with better info, but in my experience, the frogs eat only live foods such as tubifex or black worms, baby guppies, baby shrimp, or brine shrimp. In any case, any uneaten food should be removed so as to not pollute the water, unless it is a live food which can survive in the tank. > > They also need heated water and good filtration. I would have them in a bigger tank with some live plants, heater, filter. > > > These frogs shed their skin, which sometimes looks like it could be a fungus. Sometimes they eat the shed skin and sometimes not. > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: melindas <melindaspicer@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 8:21:49 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus help. > > I bought two African Dwarf frogs last weekend and I noticed Saturday that One of them was slightly fuzzy, and I assume its a fungus from them not eating their food and it dirtying the water. I cleaned the tank and put a few pieces of salt in it. Is there anything else can do for it? Its only a gallon tank they live in. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48329	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.

Good, sounds like you know what you're doing in regards to frogs. I'm sure someone with much more knowledge than I have will chime in with help! Good luck with your little guys. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: melindas <melindaspicer@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 4:06:28 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fungus help. I'm 110% they are not shedding, I have Firebelly toads and ACFs and I'm used to knowing what shedding looks like. ^^ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > I am sure others will respond with better info, but in my experience, the frogs eat only live foods such as tubifex or black worms, baby guppies, baby shrimp, or brine shrimp. In any case, any uneaten food should be removed so as to not pollute the water, unless it is a live food which can survive in the tank. > > They also need heated water and good filtration. I would have them in a bigger tank with some live plants, heater, filter. > > > These frogs shed their skin, which sometimes looks like it could be a fungus. Sometimes they eat the shed skin and sometimes not. > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: melindas <melindaspicer@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 8:21:49 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus help. > > I bought two African Dwarf frogs last weekend and I noticed Saturday that One of them was slightly fuzzy, and I assume its a fungus from them not eating their food and it dirtying the water. I cleaned the tank and put a few pieces of salt in it. Is there anything else can do for it? Its only a gallon tank they live in. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48330	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Planted Tanks Contest

Too late to enter this year's contest (Grand Prize is 1,000,000 yen or 10,961.36 USD) but you can view the winners of last year's international competition at http://bestbookmarks.co.cc/amazing/underwater-gardening-the-world%E2%80%99s-best-aquariums or http://tinyurl.com/2995lvn. The sponsoring organization's web site is http://en.iaplc.com/index.html but the pictures are not shown there. However, do a bit of digging and you can find the grand Prize winners since 2002. Anyone here have tanks that look like those shown? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48331	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish

Answered inline below.... Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sick fish Details - In this tank are 3 Dario Dario, 1 of which is now swimming with clamped fins and is rubbing on plants - no visible spots on body or fins. Also, 1 betta, 1 glass cat, 2 otos, 2 cardinals and 3 male endlers. 2 Amano shrimp, and maybe 10 RCS. Substrate is flourite. Filter medium is 2 sponges, I removed the ceramic tube pieces to make room for a bag of carbon. LENNY - Your stocking appears to be OK. I'm presuming you removed the bio-media for the carbon in order to remove previous medications? Next time you have to do this, take the bag of bio-media and just hang it in your tank somewhere, preferably in a water flow, which would help to keep some of the N-bacteria alive so when you put it back into the filter, it would keep things up to speed. Temp is usually 80 or 82. I have lowered a bit, which I now think I should have left it. It is now 78, and had not gone lower than that. LENNY - Yeah, it sounds like the higher temperature is what worked for the other forum poster with what sounds like an identical issue. If you can slowly raise it back up, that would probably be good. After a 40% water change yesterday with tap water, my ammonia is 0, nitrite 0, nitrate is surprisingly high - at least 40 but less than 80 with an API test kit. It is difficult to be more precise with this kit. GH is 13, KH 8. PH this morning before the lights went on - 7.8 The nitrate surprised me. What would make it so high? I have used plant tabs in this tank recently - would that do it? LENNY - Possibly the plant tabs or possibly the meds and salt could have affected the plants a little so they are not metabolizing the nitrates as quickly as they normally would. This is the down side of doing too much at one time, the cause of any side effects are harder to determine what caused them. And now that 1 dario is acting strange, it reminds me of when this all started. I guess it was about 3 months ago. I bought a pair of Dario from a LFS. Silly me, I added them to this tank w/o quarantine. They looked very healthy in the tank at the store - my bad. Anyway, they were doing great for at least 3 weeks, then the male started looking like he was breathing heavily. He went off food and died. Everyone else in the tank was fine. I bought 2 new Dario and again put them into the tank - no quarantine. I think I have learned my lesson. I have since read that Dario do not like high nitrate levels. LENNY - Yes, NOT quarantining new fish are one of the leading causes of an outbreak of major health issues in our community tanks. Even when the new fish appear healthy in their retail tanks, being bagged and transported and then added to new/different water can cause stress issues which then cause immune system issues and then any minor bugs become major bugs. It's the same reason the people with weakened immune systems should protect themselves from other people... by wearing masks, etc., and why healthy people should protect themselves from known sick people. Everything had been fine for at least a month, when the catfish got sick. The other glass cat has 1 spot, the size of this period. It also looks like it has a bit of white on both barbels, just 1 area on each, maybe a sixteenth of an inch long, or shorter - hard to tell. LENNY - Normally, it doesn't take a month but I guess it all depends on the bacteria/pathogen and how long the infected fish's immune system can put up a fight against the bug. Then, once the host fish gets infected, it takes time for it to spread to other fish. Here are some pics. Can't tell on the betta, and actually, he looks better than he did. The glass cat fish has 1 spot near the bottom fin, behind the head. In the blurry pic, (38) you can see it more clearly. In pic 24, you can see the spot on the barbel. LENNY - Did you attach pictures to the email? If so, they will not come through. You will need to either upload them to the group's photos section and one of the moderators will approve them or upload them to your own online photo album and then post a link in your reply. Most group's are having to do this... stop folks from sending pics via the group... due to a few cases where improper photos were sent out to an entire group's list of members. Unfortunately, the good have to suffer for the bad. The glass cat that died started out with something around it's spine, almost a faint (very) pink mass about an eighth of an inch long and half that wide. It wasn't until AFTER that showed up that small white spots appeared, of varying sizes, but mostly slightly larger than ich spots. These increased in quantity, despite the water changes and medications. I guess I was using the wrong meds - it is sooooooo difficult to get the right diagnosis. LENNY - OK. Whatever that first pink mass was seems to be the thing that started the downward spiral and then once the fish's immune system became weaker, other opportunistic pathogens started to attack. I'm also wondering if the fish wasn't just creating excessive slime coat and this might not be what you thought was a fungus. Sick fish will often create excessive slime coat and slough it off. It would probably be more pronounced on a "glass" or clear fish. Of course, it could also be an actual fungus or a bacterial issue like columnaris which presents itself looking like a fungus. You guys are great - you have taught me so much. Thanks for all the fishes you have helped, and the aquarists that you have schooled. ~ Laurie LENNY - Your welcome. I think most people out here trying to help were once in the same exact place that you are today... I know I was... and someone helped us so the cycle continues. One day, you'll be the one helping other people. Look for Ray's follow-up as well as other's since I'm still a rookie in many aspects as far as sick fish go. I consider my forte' in trying to get fish keepers to do things right from the start so they don't have as many sick fish to deal with on the back end. I've been very fortunate to only have to deal with a very few number of sick fish over the years and those were usually ones that I adopted from someone getting out of the hobby. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, June 5, 2010 7:42:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick fish As Ray mentioned, giving us all of your water parameters can sometimes help a little or a lot. This means ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (in the morning before lights on and near the end of day before lights out). Have you added any new fish, plants or critters recently... other than the mosquito larvae from the green water tank in your back yard. Also give us a complete list of fish that you do have in the 20G and how many of each. See my blog's "Sick Fish Questionnaire" and read through that and give us any other information that you haven't already supplied. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html OR http://tinyurl.com/Sick-Fish-Questionnaire The Ich medication isn't likely needed since what you are describing is NOT Ich.... although your description changes between P2 and P5, below. I want to clear some things up though. I have broken up your longer paragraphs into more manageable paragraphs below, for easier reading/answering. In P2, below, you mention what looked like a fungus inside his body but since it's a glass catfish, I'm guessing this is either something on the other side that appears to be inside BUT I did some Googling and found this old 2007 thread, in another forum, about the same thing as you describe. http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/59150-glass -catfish-problem/ OR http://tinyurl.com/2fd47p2 There's not much help as far as answers though the final post mentions that raising the temperature in the tank seemed to make the glass catfish go clear again. Has your temperature dropped recently? Other info I read said that when glass catfish get sick, they will get cloudy so it could just be a coincidence that raising the temperature along with the other meds they were using made the fish well enough to turn clear again. Concerning the small white spots mentioned in P5 below, which you say does not look like Ich, then tell us how big these spots are. "Small" is so subjective. Are the spots the size of grains of salt or larger or smaller? Are the spots 1/8", 1/4", bigger or give us something that we will know to compare the spots to. In the future, DO NOT start throwing all kinds of meds at a problem unless or until you are getting good advice to do so. Sometimes folks over-medicate or mix things that shouldn't be mixed and that can cause as many problems as the illness. I'm guessing you do not have a tank to use as a hospital tank. It's a good idea to at least have a 5G or 10G tank or even a Sterilite storage container to use as a hospital/quarantine tank so that you can medicate one or more sick fish without subjecting all of the other fish to all of the meds. If you have a digital camera, take LOTS of pictures and hopefully a few of them will come out good. That's the good thing about digital cameras compared to old film cameras where taking a 100 pictures and hoping for a couple of good ones was an expensive task. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick fish In my 20 gallon community tank, filtered with fluval canister, diy co2, tons of plants, driftwood, moss, night-time airstone 1 of my 2 glass cats had what looked like a fungus inside his body, on his spine. I began treatment with Tetracycline, as I was told fungus will not infect the inside of the fish. I also have shrimp in this tank. The catfish was still voraciously eating and acting normal. Then small white spots began appearing first on his fins, then later all over his body. It did not look like ich, and the only other fish affected was the gorgeous blue, crowntail betta. I continued the tetracycline treatment, and added kordon's ich +. I then added salt to the regimen. Nothing helped. The glass cat continued to get worse. I did several PWC's over the course of treatment, and he finally succomed. Did another 50% water change, and stopped all treatment as it did not seem to be working anyway. The betta is still pigging out on baby shrimp and possibly dario dario fry, but some of his scales look as though there is something whitish under them, raising them up ever so slightly. I know what *pineconing* and/or dropsy looks like - this is not it. It is not affecting his whole body, mostly the scales where I suppose his neck and shoulders would be. I love this guy and do not want to lose him. Also, I think I may have a breeding pair of Dario in this tank, and don't want to lose them either. The dario require live food for the most part. Maybe this is my problem, as I feed mosquito larvae from a tank out back. It has no fish in it, so I assumed the water was safe for the fish. Actually, I have betta fry and also use this green water in their tank. They all seem fine so far, and are actually about a month old. Water parameters are all good, ph is around 7. I can try to take a photo, if I can get a good close-up. Hope someone has some suggestions for me. ~ Laurie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48332	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.

I think you will need a larger tank first. A 1G is not big enough for even a single ADF. Trying to keep up with cleaning and water quality will be really rough on you and even rougher on the frogs. Until you get a larger tank, you should probably be doing daily 50% PWC's (partial water changes). Make sure the water is the same temperature and treated with a dechlor product. If you keep their tank at room temperature, you could just fill a couple of gallon water jugs with your water and set them down near the tank so they are the same temperature as the tank. This is only a short term fix though as daily tank maintenance gets old fast and takes away much of the enjoyment of what the hobby is supposed to be about. As far as food, if they are not eating, do not leave the food in the water. If they don't eat it in a few minutes, remove the food, otherwise the decaying food will be a haven for bacteria and fungus growth which could then spread. You can get a 10G tank kit at Walmart for around $30.00 the last time I priced one. That includes everything except a heater and gravel. You can get pea gravel in the Walmart garden section really cheap. If this is out of your price range, then you can look on Craigslist or your local FreeCycle Yahoo Group and you might find a smaller tank and accessories really cheap or even free. You can also get a clear Sterilite storage container, that holds around 10G of water, to keep them in temporarily while you work on a bigger tank but that 1G tank needs to be upgraded as fast as possible. You can at least use the Sterilite storage box for other things after. I'm pretty sure that ADF's are sensitive to many medications and salt so you have to be careful what you use. I think that API's Pimafix, which is an antifungal treatment, would be mild enough for the frogs. You could use a half dosage at first to make sure they are tolerating it well. Then each day when you do a PWC, you would have to dose again. Normally, you wouldn't be doing daily PWC's when medicating a tank but since your tank is so small, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Here are a couple of decent care sheets for ADF's. http://www.flippersandfins.net/adfcaresheet.htm http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile99.html http://thegab.org/Tropicals/african-dwarf-frogs-care-sheet.html Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of melindas Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fungus help. I bought two African Dwarf frogs last weekend and I noticed Saturday that One of them was slightly fuzzy, and I assume its a fungus from them not eating their food and it dirtying the water. I cleaned the tank and put a few pieces of salt in it. Is there anything else can do for it? Its only a gallon tank they live in.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48333	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Planted Tanks Contest

I kind of have a yen to enter next year. AR! AR! AR! Do they accept entries from actual fish since my goldfish prefer to do their own tank decorating? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Planted Tanks Contest Too late to enter this year's contest (Grand Prize is 1,000,000 yen or 10,961.36 USD) but you can view the winners of last year's international competition at http://bestbookmarks.co.cc/amazing/underwater-gardening-the-world%E2%80%99s- best-aquariums or http://tinyurl.com/2995lvn. The sponsoring organization's web site is http://en.iaplc.com/index.html but the pictures are not shown there. However, do a bit of digging and you can find the grand Prize winners since 2002. Anyone here have tanks that look like those shown? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48334	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Sick fish

I uploaded the pics to the photos section. They are under "Glass Catfish June 2010" or something like that lol. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 8:50:21 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick fish Answered inline below.... Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Sick fish Details - In this tank are 3 Dario Dario, 1 of which is now swimming with clamped fins and is rubbing on plants - no visible spots on body or fins. Also, 1 betta, 1 glass cat, 2 otos, 2 cardinals and 3 male endlers. 2 Amano shrimp, and maybe 10 RCS. Substrate is flourite. Filter medium is 2 sponges, I removed the ceramic tube pieces to make room for a bag of carbon. LENNY - Your stocking appears to be OK. I'm presuming you removed the bio-media for the carbon in order to remove previous medications? Next time you have to do this, take the bag of bio-media and just hang it in your tank somewhere, preferably in a water flow, which would help to keep some of the N-bacteria alive so when you put it back into the filter, it would keep things up to speed. Temp is usually 80 or 82. I have lowered a bit, which I now think I should have left it. It is now 78, and had not gone lower than that. LENNY - Yeah, it sounds like the higher temperature is what worked for the other forum poster with what sounds like an identical issue. If you can slowly raise it back up, that would probably be good. After a 40% water change yesterday with tap water, my ammonia is 0, nitrite 0, nitrate is surprisingly high - at least 40 but less than 80 with an API test kit. It is difficult to be more precise with this kit. GH is 13, KH 8. PH this morning before the lights went on - 7.8 The nitrate surprised me. What would make it so high? I have used plant tabs in this tank recently - would that do it? LENNY - Possibly the plant tabs or possibly the meds and salt could have affected the plants a little so they are not metabolizing the nitrates as quickly as they normally would. This is the down side of doing too much at one time, the cause of any side effects are harder to determine what caused them. And now that 1 dario is acting strange, it reminds me of when this all started. I guess it was about 3 months ago. I bought a pair of Dario from a LFS. Silly me, I added them to this tank w/o quarantine. They looked very healthy in the tank at the store - my bad. Anyway, they were doing great for at least 3 weeks, then the male started looking like he was breathing heavily. He went off food and died. Everyone else in the tank was fine. I bought 2 new Dario and again put them into the tank - no quarantine. I think I have learned my lesson. I have since read that Dario do not like high nitrate levels. LENNY - Yes, NOT quarantining new fish are one of the leading causes of an outbreak of major health issues in our community tanks. Even when the new fish appear healthy in their retail tanks, being bagged and transported and then added to new/different water can cause stress issues which then cause immune system issues and then any minor bugs become major bugs. It's the same reason the people with weakened immune systems should protect themselves from other people... by wearing masks, etc., and why healthy people should protect themselves from known sick people. Everything had been fine for at least a month, when the catfish got sick. The other glass cat has 1 spot, the size of this period. It also looks like it has a bit of white on both barbels, just 1 area on each, maybe a sixteenth of an inch long, or shorter - hard to tell. LENNY - Normally, it doesn't take a month but I guess it all depends on the bacteria/pathogen and how long the infected fish's immune system can put up a fight against the bug. Then, once the host fish gets infected, it takes time for it to spread to other fish. Here are some pics. Can't tell on the betta, and actually, he looks better than he did. The glass cat fish has 1 spot near the bottom fin, behind the head. In the blurry pic, (38) you can see it more clearly. In pic 24, you can see the spot on the barbel. LENNY - Did you attach pictures to the email? If so, they will not come through. You will need to either upload them to the group's photos section and one of the moderators will approve them or upload them to your own online photo album and then post a link in your reply. Most group's are having to do this... stop folks from sending pics via the group... due to a few cases where improper photos were sent out to an entire group's list of members. Unfortunately, the good have to suffer for the bad. The glass cat that died started out with something around it's spine, almost a faint (very) pink mass about an eighth of an inch long and half that wide. It wasn't until AFTER that showed up that small white spots appeared, of varying sizes, but mostly slightly larger than ich spots. These increased in quantity, despite the water changes and medications. I guess I was using the wrong meds - it is sooooooo difficult to get the right diagnosis. LENNY - OK. Whatever that first pink mass was seems to be the thing that started the downward spiral and then once the fish's immune system became weaker, other opportunistic pathogens started to attack. I'm also wondering if the fish wasn't just creating excessive slime coat and this might not be what you thought was a fungus. Sick fish will often create excessive slime coat and slough it off. It would probably be more pronounced on a "glass" or clear fish. Of course, it could also be an actual fungus or a bacterial issue like columnaris which presents itself looking like a fungus. You guys are great - you have taught me so much. Thanks for all the fishes you have helped, and the aquarists that you have schooled. ~ Laurie LENNY - Your welcome. I think most people out here trying to help were once in the same exact place that you are today... I know I was... and someone helped us so the cycle continues. One day, you'll be the one helping other people. Look for Ray's follow-up as well as other's since I'm still a rookie in many aspects as far as sick fish go. I consider my forte' in trying to get fish keepers to do things right from the start so they don't have as many sick fish to deal with on the back end. I've been very fortunate to only have to deal with a very few number of sick fish over the years and those were usually ones that I adopted from someone getting out of the hobby. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) ________________________________ From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, June 5, 2010 7:42:49 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Sick fish As Ray mentioned, giving us all of your water parameters can sometimes help a little or a lot. This means ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH (in the morning before lights on and near the end of day before lights out). Have you added any new fish, plants or critters recently... other than the mosquito larvae from the green water tank in your back yard. Also give us a complete list of fish that you do have in the 20G and how many of each. See my blog's "Sick Fish Questionnaire" and read through that and give us any other information that you haven't already supplied. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html OR http://tinyurl.com/Sick-Fish-Questionnaire The Ich medication isn't likely needed since what you are describing is NOT Ich.... although your description changes between P2 and P5, below. I want to clear some things up though. I have broken up your longer paragraphs into more manageable paragraphs below, for easier reading/answering. In P2, below, you mention what looked like a fungus inside his body but since it's a glass catfish, I'm guessing this is either something on the other side that appears to be inside BUT I did some Googling and found this old 2007 thread, in another forum, about the same thing as you describe. http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/59150-glass -catfish-problem/ OR http://tinyurl.com/2fd47p2 There's not much help as far as answers though the final post mentions that raising the temperature in the tank seemed to make the glass catfish go clear again. Has your temperature dropped recently? Other info I read said that when glass catfish get sick, they will get cloudy so it could just be a coincidence that raising the temperature along with the other meds they were using made the fish well enough to turn clear again. Concerning the small white spots mentioned in P5 below, which you say does not look like Ich, then tell us how big these spots are. "Small" is so subjective. Are the spots the size of grains of salt or larger or smaller? Are the spots 1/8", 1/4", bigger or give us something that we will know to compare the spots to. In the future, DO NOT start throwing all kinds of meds at a problem unless or until you are getting good advice to do so. Sometimes folks over-medicate or mix things that shouldn't be mixed and that can cause as many problems as the illness. I'm guessing you do not have a tank to use as a hospital tank. It's a good idea to at least have a 5G or 10G tank or even a Sterilite storage container to use as a hospital/quarantine tank so that you can medicate one or more sick fish without subjecting all of the other fish to all of the meds. If you have a digital camera, take LOTS of pictures and hopefully a few of them will come out good. That's the good thing about digital cameras compared to old film cameras where taking a 100 pictures and hoping for a couple of good ones was an expensive task. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sick fish In my 20 gallon community tank, filtered with fluval canister, diy co2, tons of plants, driftwood, moss, night-time airstone 1 of my 2 glass cats had what looked like a fungus inside his body, on his spine. I began treatment with Tetracycline, as I was told fungus will not infect the inside of the fish. I also have shrimp in this tank. The catfish was still voraciously eating and acting normal. Then small white spots began appearing first on his fins, then later all over his body. It did not look like ich, and the only other fish affected was the gorgeous blue, crowntail betta. I continued the tetracycline treatment, and added kordon's ich +. I then added salt to the regimen. Nothing helped. The glass cat continued to get worse. I did several PWC's over the course of treatment, and he finally succomed. Did another 50% water change, and stopped all treatment as it did not seem to be working anyway. The betta is still pigging out on baby shrimp and possibly dario dario fry, but some of his scales look as though there is something whitish under them, raising them up ever so slightly. I know what *pineconing* and/or dropsy looks like - this is not it. It is not affecting his whole body, mostly the scales where I suppose his neck and shoulders would be. I love this guy and do not want to lose him. Also, I think I may have a breeding pair of Dario in this tank, and don't want to lose them either. The dario require live food for the most part. Maybe this is my problem, as I feed mosquito larvae from a tank out back. It has no fish in it, so I assumed the water was safe for the fish. Actually, I have betta fry and also use this green water in their tank. They all seem fine so far, and are actually about a month old. Water parameters are all good, ph is around 7. I can try to take a photo, if I can get a good close-up. Hope someone has some suggestions for me. ~ Laurie ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48335	From: Ray	Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Planted Tanks Contest

Makes me wonder how much these fish appreciate it, after all the work that went into them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > Too late to enter this year's contest (Grand Prize is 1,000,000 yen or 10,961.36 USD) but you can view the winners of last year's international competition at http://bestbookmarks.co.cc/amazing/underwater-gardening-the-world%E2%80%99s-best-aquariums or http://tinyurl.com/2995lvn. > > The sponsoring organization's web site is http://en.iaplc.com/index.html but the pictures are not shown there. However, do a bit of digging and you can find the grand Prize winners since 2002. > > Anyone here have tanks that look like those shown? > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48336	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/7/2010
Subject: Re: Planted Tanks Contest

Lenny, I did not read the rules for entry, so you would have to so that the eligibility of your goldfish can be determined. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 12:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Planted Tanks Contest I kind of have a yen to enter next year. AR! AR! AR! Do they accept entries from actual fish since my goldfish prefer to do their own tank decorating? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Planted Tanks Contest Too late to enter this year's contest (Grand Prize is 1,000,000 yen or 10,961.36 USD) but you can view the winners of last year's international competition at http://bestbookmarks.co.cc/amazing/underwater-gardening-the-world%E2%80%99s- best-aquariums or http://tinyurl.com/2995lvn. The sponsoring organization's web site is http://en.iaplc.com/index.html but the pictures are not shown there. However, do a bit of digging and you can find the grand Prize winners since 2002. Anyone here have tanks that look like those shown? \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48337	From: Ray	Date: 6/7/2010
Subject: Re: Fungus help.

Melinda, Noticed you received several replies to your post on your African Dwarf Frogs possibly having fungus, even though I don't believe we have any frog experts in this group. I hope that some of these replies were somewhat helpful, at least keeping in line with what most aquatic animals need. While these replies may or may not have directly addressed your particular problem, for more in-depth information on these animals I'd like to suggest your going to a Yahoo Group that's devoted to African Dwarf Frogs: < http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DwarfAfricanFrogs/ > This group's address was given to me by a member of another tropical fish related group which I also moderate (and who is a member of this above frog group as well), to be passed on to you after I contacted her to get more comprehensive information for you to look into. This same person has emailed you directly after I contacted her about your frogs' situation, although as I understand it she has not yet heard back from you, so I am also forwarding her email address to you, as she requested: < donnalynneking@... > As her email address would indicate, her name is Donna (King); she has a good knowledge of African Dwarf Frogs, which I hope you may be able to benefit from. Best of luck with these critters. Ray -- Moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "melindas" <melindaspicer@...> wrote: > > I bought two African Dwarf frogs last weekend and I noticed Saturday that One of them was slightly fuzzy, and I assume its a fungus from them not eating their food and it dirtying the water. I cleaned the tank and put a few pieces of salt in it. Is there anything else can do for it? Its only a gallon tank they live in. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48338	From: jimpat101	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......

Finally replaced the "rim" last week. It wasn't as bad as I had expected, removing the old rim involved a trick or two, but it came off... If amyone is interested, I can do a write up on it. From what I found out in all my reading this happens to only bow front tanks. What I didn't was this, the center brace was seperated about 1/8" from the back of the tank, we removed a little more that 1/2 the water and the seperation was still there....Removed the old rim and the new one "fell" into place, no having to "push" the front and back of the tank together to fit the new rim on. Question: Did the center brace shrink from the heat of the light? Did the brace shrink instead of the tank expanding?? Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48339	From: diogenes3	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: White patches

Hi everyone. I need some help with a problem I'm having. This morning I noticed some white cotton like patches on the side of one of my silver dollars. He/she? seems to be swimming fine and normally active, however he doesnt't seem interested in eating. My other silver dollar and the other fish in the tank are all fine. Any idea what this could be? Also how can I tell the sex of silver dollars? Thanks for the help. Bob

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48340	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......

It sounds like a previous owner used HOT lighting, like Halogen or something that would be used on a SW Reef tank and that very well could/would have melted the plastic. It seems like melting plastic would stretch but maybe when it cooled, it contracted and broke after repeated heating and cooling with the lights being on and off every day. It sounds like the tank itself was OK since the new top frame slipped right into place. I have been seeing pictures of people painting that center brace with white heat resistant epoxy paint to reflect the heat instead of absorbing the heat like black coloring would do. The other thing that would work even better, if you ever have to use HOT lighting, would be to get a strip of stainless steel and crease it lengthwise to form a V and then mount the inverted-V over the center bracket which would reflect the light and heat away from the center bracket and if the inverted-V is tall enough, it would just reflect the light down into the tank at an angle. This inverted-V could be held in place with aquarium silicone at the four corners so it could be removed easily if needed at a future date. I wish you would have posted this new reply in the old thread instead of starting a new thread... but here's the link to your old thread for folks just reading this. I remember adding a few good links to photos of others with the same problem and I think you had photos too... didn't you? I'm sure they'll be in the original thread... actually I found two *original* threads. Original thread - Need a new top for my 72g. bow front... (March 17, 20100 http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47391 2nd thread - My 72 gal. bow front problems are back... (April 06, 2010) http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47718 And now this thread - Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front... (June 08, 2010) http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48338 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... Finally replaced the "rim" last week. It wasn't as bad as I had expected, removing the old rim involved a trick or two, but it came off... If amyone is interested, I can do a write up on it. From what I found out in all my reading this happens to only bow front tanks. What I didn't was this, the center brace was seperated about 1/8" from the back of the tank, we removed a little more that 1/2 the water and the seperation was still there....Removed the old rim and the new one "fell" into place, no having to "push" the front and back of the tank together to fit the new rim on. Question: Did the center brace shrink from the heat of the light? Did the brace shrink instead of the tank expanding?? Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48341	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: White patches

Hi Bob, Since we're going to have a LOT of questions, it would be a good idea if you can answer this sick fish questionnaire which will give us a big jump on getting you the right information. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html Just copy/paste the entire questionnaire into your answer and then answer inline. Having the answers to these questions also helps in determining the best treatment regimen. The cottony growth you are seeing could be fungal but could also be bacterial as columnaris can present itself looking like a fungus. Go to this next link and look at the pictures of both of these diseases and see if you can identify which one you have. This page will take a little while to load since it's an archived copy of the original site. DO NOT use the quick links at the top of the page, since they won't be quick, instead just scroll down to each section. http://web.archive.org/web/20051217230513/http://www.fishpalace.org/disease. html OR http://www.tinyurl.com/2m83ee Do you know what species of Silver Dollars that you have. There are at least three different species that share that common name. If you don't know, look at the following profiles/care sheets and see if you can figure out which one you have. Some of them stay in the 7" to 8" range while the other can grow to 12". http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Metynnis_argenteus.html (click Pictures link for photos) http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile23.html http://www.aquariumlife.net/profiles/characidae/silver-dollar/100015.asp Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of diogenes3 Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] White patches Hi everyone. I need some help with a problem I'm having. This morning I noticed some white cotton like patches on the side of one of my silver dollars. He/she? seems to be swimming fine and normally active, however he doesnt't seem interested in eating. My other silver dollar and the other fish in the tank are all fine. Any idea what this could be? Also how can I tell the sex of silver dollars? Thanks for the help. Bob

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48342	From: Jpateson@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......

Lenny, I like the idea of the steel over the brace and will install it. When I got the tank he had a 40W Cool bulb in it, But, I don't know what else he used before that.. I have since replaced that one with one that picks up the colors of the fish better, although I can't remember what it was called...... Great ideas as usual, thanks again... Jim In a message dated 6/8/2010 9:52:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: It sounds like a previous owner used HOT lighting, like Halogen or something that would be used on a SW Reef tank and that very well could/would have melted the plastic. It seems like melting plastic would stretch but maybe when it cooled, it contracted and broke after repeated heating and cooling with the lights being on and off every day. It sounds like the tank itself was OK since the new top frame slipped right into place. I have been seeing pictures of people painting that center brace with white heat resistant epoxy paint to reflect the heat instead of absorbing the heat like black coloring would do. The other thing that would work even better, if you ever have to use HOT lighting, would be to get a strip of stainless steel and crease it lengthwise to form a V and then mount the inverted-V over the center bracket which would reflect the light and heat away from the center bracket and if the inverted-V is tall enough, it would just reflect the light down into the tank at an angle. This inverted-V could be held in place with aquarium silicone at the four corners so it could be removed easily if needed at a future date. I wish you would have posted this new reply in the old thread instead of starting a new thread... but here's the link to your old thread for folks just reading this. I remember adding a few good links to photos of others with the same problem and I think you had photos too... didn't you? I'm sure they'll be in the original thread... actually I found two *original* threads. Original thread - Need a new top for my 72g. bow front... (March 17, 20100 _http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47391_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47391) 2nd thread - My 72 gal. bow front problems are back... (April 06, 2010) _http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47718_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47718) And now this thread - Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front... (June 08, 2010) _http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48338_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48338) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:47 AM To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... Finally replaced the "rim" last week. It wasn't as bad as I had expected, removing the old rim involved a trick or two, but it came off... If amyone is interested, I can do a write up on it. From what I found out in all my reading this happens to only bow front tanks. What I didn't was this, the center brace was seperated about 1/8" from the back of the tank, we removed a little more that 1/2 the water and the seperation was still there....Removed the old rim and the new one "fell" into place, no having to "push" the front and back of the tank together to fit the new rim on. Question: Did the center brace shrink from the heat of the light? Did the brace shrink instead of the tank expanding?? Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48343	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......

Well, if you're just using standard fluorescent or other cooler lighting on a FW tank, you won't have any problems. It's usually only the lighting needed for reef tanks that get really HOT but sometimes on deep FW tanks, folks might have to use Halogen or other piercing/spot type lighting to get the light down to the bottom of the tank. One day, we'll all be using LED lighting which provides both the beam/spot type lighting and it's nice and cool and low energy use... but right now the prices are still pretty high compared to fluorescent or CFL lighting. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jpateson@... Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... Lenny, I like the idea of the steel over the brace and will install it. When I got the tank he had a 40W Cool bulb in it, But, I don't know what else he used before that.. I have since replaced that one with one that picks up the colors of the fish better, although I can't remember what it was called...... Great ideas as usual, thanks again... Jim In a message dated 6/8/2010 9:52:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: It sounds like a previous owner used HOT lighting, like Halogen or something that would be used on a SW Reef tank and that very well could/would have melted the plastic. It seems like melting plastic would stretch but maybe when it cooled, it contracted and broke after repeated heating and cooling with the lights being on and off every day. It sounds like the tank itself was OK since the new top frame slipped right into place. I have been seeing pictures of people painting that center brace with white heat resistant epoxy paint to reflect the heat instead of absorbing the heat like black coloring would do. The other thing that would work even better, if you ever have to use HOT lighting, would be to get a strip of stainless steel and crease it lengthwise to form a V and then mount the inverted-V over the center bracket which would reflect the light and heat away from the center bracket and if the inverted-V is tall enough, it would just reflect the light down into the tank at an angle. This inverted-V could be held in place with aquarium silicone at the four corners so it could be removed easily if needed at a future date. I wish you would have posted this new reply in the old thread instead of starting a new thread... but here's the link to your old thread for folks just reading this. I remember adding a few good links to photos of others with the same problem and I think you had photos too... didn't you? I'm sure they'll be in the original thread... actually I found two *original* threads. Original thread - Need a new top for my 72g. bow front... (March 17, 20100 _http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47391_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47391) 2nd thread - My 72 gal. bow front problems are back... (April 06, 2010) _http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47718_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47718) And now this thread - Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front... (June 08, 2010) _http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48338_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48338) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of jimpat101 Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:47 AM To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... Finally replaced the "rim" last week. It wasn't as bad as I had expected, removing the old rim involved a trick or two, but it came off... If amyone is interested, I can do a write up on it. From what I found out in all my reading this happens to only bow front tanks. What I didn't was this, the center brace was seperated about 1/8" from the back of the tank, we removed a little more that 1/2 the water and the seperation was still there....Removed the old rim and the new one "fell" into place, no having to "push" the front and back of the tank together to fit the new rim on. Question: Did the center brace shrink from the heat of the light? Did the brace shrink instead of the tank expanding?? Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48344	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......

Hi Jim,   While I can't speak for others on the list, I would be most interested in all of your exploits involving this tank.  My reasons are simple enough I want one.   Like so many, I have but limited home space and the 72 bow would be the largest tank I could use.  While some might suggest the standard 75, I have backed down from this because of the side measurement or width of the tank.  I believe that the 72 is NOT the full 18-inch measurement at its sides but rather about 15 or 16, at least it seems so to me.  To that end I plan to also use a canister filter with this tank so as too keep it from protruding to far into the living/dinning room area from the back wall.   In any event if this cracking of the frame is a problem with the 72-bow front, you're the first to write about it and I have learned a lot from your commentary so far and would like to know more.  Problems acquiring the new rim or trim, anything on this subject that you would feel relevant would be welcomed here.  Pictures or how to's to group would be helpful but if you feel "put-off" by this, please feel free to mail me directly at:  warrenprint@....   Thanks again for all your information Jim,   Bill --- On Tue, 6/8/10, jimpat101 <Jpateson@...> wrote: From: jimpat101 <Jpateson@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 9:46 AM Finally replaced the "rim" last week.  It wasn't as bad as I had expected, removing the old rim involved a trick or two, but it came off... If amyone is interested, I can do a write up on it. From what I found out in all my reading this happens to only bow front tanks. What I didn't was this, the center brace was seperated about 1/8" from the back of the tank, we removed a little more that 1/2 the water and the seperation was still there....Removed the old rim and the new one "fell" into place, no having to "push" the front and back of the tank together to fit the new rim on.  Question: Did the center brace shrink from the heat of the light? Did the brace shrink instead of the tank expanding?? Jim ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48345	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......

Hi Len,   Can't one of the moderators replace or combine the threads into one?   And thanks for the original thread links,   Bill --- On Tue, 6/8/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 10:51 AM > It sounds like a previous owner used > HOT lighting, like Halogen or something > that would be used on a SW Reef tank and that very well > could/would have > melted the plastic.  It seems like melting plastic > would stretch but maybe > when it cooled, it contracted and broke after repeated > heating and cooling > with the lights being on and off every day.  > > It sounds like the tank itself was OK since the new top > frame slipped right > into place.  I have been seeing pictures of people > painting that center > brace with white heat resistant epoxy paint to reflect the > heat instead of > absorbing the heat like black coloring would do.  > > The other thing that would work even better, if you ever > have to use HOT > lighting, would be to get a strip of stainless steel and > crease it > lengthwise to form a V and then mount the inverted-V over > the center bracket > which would reflect the light and heat away from the center > bracket and if > the inverted-V is tall enough, it would just reflect the > light down into the > tank at an angle.  This inverted-V could be held in > place with aquarium > silicone at the four corners so it could be removed easily > if needed at a > future date. > > I wish you would have posted this new reply in the old > thread instead of > starting a new thread... but here's the link to your old > thread for folks > just reading this.  I remember adding a few good links > to photos of others > with the same problem and I think you had photos too... > didn't you?  I'm > sure they'll be in the original thread... actually I found > two *original* > threads. > > Original thread - Need a new top for my 72g. bow front... > (March 17, 20100 > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47391 > > > 2nd thread - My 72 gal. bow front problems are back... > (April 06, 2010) > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47718 > > And now this thread - Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front... > (June 08, 2010) > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48338 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of jimpat101 > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow > front...... > > Finally replaced the "rim" last week.  It wasn't as > bad as I had expected, > removing the old rim involved a trick or two, but it came > off... If amyone > is interested, I can do a write up on it. From what I found > out in all my > reading this happens to only bow front tanks. What I didn't > was this, the > center brace was seperated about 1/8" from the back of the > tank, we removed > a little more that 1/2 the water and the seperation was > still > there....Removed the old rim and the new one "fell" into > place, no having to > "push" the front and back of the tank together to fit the > new rim on. > Question: Did the center brace shrink from the heat of the > light? Did the > brace shrink instead of the tank expanding?? > > Jim > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48346	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......

Threading is a function of the list software combined with the users replying to existing messages, not creating new ones with the same subject. On a reply, the subject line would need to remain intact. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 12:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... Hi Len,   Can't one of the moderators replace or combine the threads into one?   And thanks for the original thread links,   Bill --- On Tue, 6/8/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 10:51 AM > It sounds like a previous owner used > HOT lighting, like Halogen or something > that would be used on a SW Reef tank and that very well > could/would have > melted the plastic.  It seems like melting plastic > would stretch but maybe > when it cooled, it contracted and broke after repeated > heating and cooling > with the lights being on and off every day.  > > It sounds like the tank itself was OK since the new top > frame slipped right > into place.  I have been seeing pictures of people > painting that center > brace with white heat resistant epoxy paint to reflect the > heat instead of > absorbing the heat like black coloring would do.  > > The other thing that would work even better, if you ever > have to use HOT > lighting, would be to get a strip of stainless steel and > crease it > lengthwise to form a V and then mount the inverted-V over > the center bracket > which would reflect the light and heat away from the center > bracket and if > the inverted-V is tall enough, it would just reflect the > light down into the > tank at an angle.  This inverted-V could be held in > place with aquarium > silicone at the four corners so it could be removed easily > if needed at a > future date. > > I wish you would have posted this new reply in the old > thread instead of > starting a new thread... but here's the link to your old > thread for folks > just reading this.  I remember adding a few good links > to photos of others > with the same problem and I think you had photos too... > didn't you?  I'm > sure they'll be in the original thread... actually I found > two *original* > threads. > > Original thread - Need a new top for my 72g. bow front... > (March 17, 20100 > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47391 > > > 2nd thread - My 72 gal. bow front problems are back... > (April 06, 2010) > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47718 > > And now this thread - Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front... > (June 08, 2010) > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48338 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed > on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives > by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of jimpat101 > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow > front...... > > Finally replaced the "rim" last week.  It wasn't as > bad as I had expected, > removing the old rim involved a trick or two, but it came > off... If amyone > is interested, I can do a write up on it. From what I found > out in all my > reading this happens to only bow front tanks. What I didn't > was this, the > center brace was seperated about 1/8" from the back of the > tank, we removed > a little more that 1/2 the water and the seperation was > still > there....Removed the old rim and the new one "fell" into > place, no having to > "push" the front and back of the tank together to fit the > new rim on. > Question: Did the center brace shrink from the heat of the > light? Did the > brace shrink instead of the tank expanding?? > > Jim > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48347	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/8/2010
Subject: Re: Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front......

Unlike some other online forums, where threads can be moved from one forum to another forum or even added to another thread, this isn't possible with Yahoo Group's which are based more on email usability where other online forums require an actual visit to the forum and posting instead of simply replying to an email. They each have their own pluses and minuses. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 11:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... Hi Len,   Can't one of the moderators replace or combine the threads into one?   And thanks for the original thread links,   Bill --- On Tue, 6/8/10, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny <GoldLenny@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front...... > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 10:51 AM > It sounds like a previous owner used > HOT lighting, like Halogen or something that would be used on a SW > Reef tank and that very well could/would have melted the plastic.  It > seems like melting plastic would stretch but maybe when it cooled, it > contracted and broke after repeated heating and cooling with the > lights being on and off every day. > > It sounds like the tank itself was OK since the new top frame slipped > right into place.  I have been seeing pictures of people painting that > center brace with white heat resistant epoxy paint to reflect the heat > instead of absorbing the heat like black coloring would do. > > The other thing that would work even better, if you ever have to use > HOT lighting, would be to get a strip of stainless steel and crease it > lengthwise to form a V and then mount the inverted-V over the center > bracket which would reflect the light and heat away from the center > bracket and if the inverted-V is tall enough, it would just reflect > the light down into the tank at an angle.  This inverted-V could be > held in place with aquarium silicone at the four corners so it could > be removed easily if needed at a future date. > > I wish you would have posted this new reply in the old thread instead > of starting a new thread... but here's the link to your old thread for > folks just reading this.  I remember adding a few good links to photos > of others with the same problem and I think you had photos too... > didn't you?  I'm > sure they'll be in the original thread... actually I found two > *original* threads. > > Original thread - Need a new top for my 72g. bow front... > (March 17, 20100 > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47391 > > > 2nd thread - My 72 gal. bow front problems are back... > (April 06, 2010) > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/47718 > > And now this thread - Replaced rim on 72. gal bow front... > (June 08, 2010) > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48338 > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of jimpat101 > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:47 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Replaced rim on 72. gal bow > front...... > > Finally replaced the "rim" last week.  It wasn't as > bad as I had expected, > removing the old rim involved a trick or two, but it came > off... If amyone > is interested, I can do a write up on it. From what I found > out in all my > reading this happens to only bow front tanks. What I didn't > was this, the > center brace was seperated about 1/8" from the back of the > tank, we removed > a little more that 1/2 the water and the seperation was > still > there....Removed the old rim and the new one "fell" into > place, no having to > "push" the front and back of the tank together to fit the > new rim on. > Question: Did the center brace shrink from the heat of the > light? Did the > brace shrink instead of the tank expanding?? > > Jim

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48348	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia

Not presumptious at all, I'm sure its something some people don't think of. I rinse with tap water and then with tank water, shake empty and then add for the test. that way i'm sure i got all the prior water/reagent out and don't have any residual tap water to throw the test off. I have the walmart test on the way (double checked, not that I don't trust you guys more than my LFS now!) and it has multiple vials and liquid reagents... People have been questioning the way I think since I remember! While "unique" is about as nice as I hear still it works quite well for me. FWIW, my fish-store family had some pretty derogatory remarks about me wanting a salt water tank... Sure glad you guys are here! Janet > > Would it be presumptuous to remind you to rinse the vial thoroughly after > each test with tap water? > > While I am past the age you mention, some people have been questioning the > way my mind works since I was a kid. I've gotten used to it. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48349	From: greychildren	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: dying fish

Guys I'm having some issues with the fish in my planted 55g there dying. I check my water perms and there as follows. Ph 7.0 Gh 15 Nitrate 0.2 Nh 0.0 Ammonia. 0.1 temp 79F I'm running two hob filters Cascade 300 and a walmart brand 30-60 I lost 5 fish in the last couple of weeks 1 serpa tetra 1 veriatus 1 cardinal 1 German ram, and the other one looks like its on the way two 1 sunburst platy I lost one of the light bulbs on my all grass cfl. i don't know whats going in the tank. I need your help guys since i cant find out whats going on.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48350	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: Ready to start w/Ammonia

WHAT??? You didn't believe me about the four test tubes??? I'm flabbergasted!!! (whatever that means) ;-) Just kidding. Now all I have to do is hope that API didn't change their packaging in the past few weeks and only have one test tube now. LOL Since you are getting the API kit now, here's a couple of threads you may want to read to optimize your test results and make sure your test kit gives you accurate readings for a year or more. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/29359 - a 2008 thread out here about test kits. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/test_kits_life.php (NOTE that these shelf life figures are for the product un-opened. Once the bottles are opened and exposed to air, their life span decreases and the kits should be replaced annually) http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2328 (Make sure you shake the bottles well, even the ones that do not say to shake first. For the bottle that says to shake for 30 seconds, shake it for a minute. It seems that for some folks, chemical separation in the bottles seem to cause errors in test results and once someone uses a bottle without shaking it properly first, then they are using more of one chemical than the other for that one instance but the rest of the bottle is then no longer the proper mix of chemicals.) Even with all of the above negatives, the API kits work great for the majority of folks, although some folks do have a problem discerning certain color shades on the color charts. Up to 25% of men suffer from some color-blindness and a lesser percentage of women. That's our excuse for not realizing that we have one brown sock and one black sock on or our many other fashion SNAFU's. It's also why we don't realize it when you women change your hair color... AGAIN!!! LOL Here are a couple of free online color-blindness tests to make sure you're OK from that angle. http://colorvisiontesting.com/ http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 6:00 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ready to start w/Ammonia Not presumptious at all, I'm sure its something some people don't think of. I rinse with tap water and then with tank water, shake empty and then add for the test. that way i'm sure i got all the prior water/reagent out and don't have any residual tap water to throw the test off. I have the walmart test on the way (double checked, not that I don't trust you guys more than my LFS now!) and it has multiple vials and liquid reagents... People have been questioning the way I think since I remember! While "unique" is about as nice as I hear still it works quite well for me. FWIW, my fish-store family had some pretty derogatory remarks about me wanting a salt water tank... Sure glad you guys are here! Janet > > Would it be presumptuous to remind you to rinse the vial thoroughly > after each test with tap water? > > While I am past the age you mention, some people have been questioning > the way my mind works since I was a kid. I've gotten used to it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48351	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: dying fish

Is your tank's pH normally at 7.0 or is that up or down from normal? Do you test it in the morning, before lights on, and then again at the end of the day after the lights have been on all day? If not, you should, to get a baseline since the pH will change after the lights have been on all day and the plants would have been using up CO2 which as the CO2 level gets lower, the pH would go higher... so your first test in the morning before the lights come on should have a lower pH than the end of day test right before your lights go off. Do you have your tap water baseline numbers? Is your GH normally that high (hard)? The Nitrate (NO3-) number doesn't look right. Usually Nitrate test results start off at 0 and then go up in increments of at least 5 to 10 for each level. Our test kits do not usually test Nitrates in fractions, only in whole numbers so the 0.2 just doesn't look right. Could this be your Nitrite (NO2-) test result? Nh is NOT a chemical symbol. NH3 is the symbol for Ammonia but you have a separate test for Ammonia so I'm not sure what this Nh test result indicates. What brand test kit do you have? Do you have test results from when you first started losing fish to see if the numbers you provided are the same or changing? Are you *properly* cleaning your filters on a weekly basis... or more frequently? See my blog article, "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning..." for details on *proper* cleaning recommendations. Did you start having problems when you lost one of your light bulbs? How long has this light bulb been out? Are you compensating by leaving the other bulb on for a longer period of time until you can replace the burned out bulb? If not, this could be part of your problem since your plants are not using up CO2 and nitrogenous wastes as fast as they would with the lights at full strength. It could be why you are getting an ammonia and possible nitrite reading. If you didn't test right after the light bulb burned out, you could have had a mini cycle with a larger ammonia and nitrite spike during the time you didn't test and that could have caused your fish to have stress issues which then lowered their immune systems and now you are seeing the aftermath. Also copy/paste my Sick Fish Questionnaire, from my blog, and give us all the answers there as well. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2009/06/sick-fish-questionnaire.html OR http://tinyurl.com/Sick-Fish-Questionnaire Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greychildren Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 7:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] dying fish Guys I'm having some issues with the fish in my planted 55g there dying. I check my water perms and there as follows. Ph 7.0 Gh 15 Nitrate 0.2 Nh 0.0 Ammonia. 0.1 temp 79F I'm running two hob filters Cascade 300 and a walmart brand 30-60 I lost 5 fish in the last couple of weeks 1 serpa tetra 1 veriatus 1 cardinal 1 German ram, and the other one looks like its on the way two 1 sunburst platy I lost one of the light bulbs on my all grass cfl. i don't know whats going in the tank. I need your help guys since i cant find out whats going on.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48352	From: will davison	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: dying fish

i had this once it was my hood lite had a short was shocking the fish i removed the light for two days and no fish died out it back on lost 2 that day try just uplugging your light and see what happens ________________________________ From: greychildren <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 9, 2010 5:44:52 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] dying fish Guys I'm having some issues with the fish in my planted 55g there dying. I check my water perms and there as follows. Ph 7.0 Gh 15 Nitrate 0.2 Nh 0.0 Ammonia. 0.1 temp 79F I'm running two hob filters Cascade 300 and a walmart brand 30-60 I lost 5 fish in the last couple of weeks 1 serpa tetra 1 veriatus 1 cardinal 1 German ram, and the other one looks like its on the way two 1 sunburst platy I lost one of the light bulbs on my all grass cfl. i don't know whats going in the tank. I need your help guys since i cant find out whats going on. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48353	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Dr. Tims One and Only

I'm going to order some of this; found it at Foster/Smith. However they only have the Marine fish in a 4 oz bottle, my tank needs 2 oz. Can I use the Reef type? I would save $25 over having to buy the large bottle I don't need... Thanks! Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48354	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims One and Only

I'm not sure. Dr. Tim is a member of this group so he may chime in if he's watching... but I'd go to his website, http://www.DrTimsAquatics.com and send a message thru the Contact Us form and you can also email him at info@... and ask. For some reason, there are separate products for a non-reef and a reef tank. Here's Dr. Tim's article on Fishless Cycling, comparing the several ways to do this process, including using Ammonia by itself and combined with his One And Only product, which includes this link to a LONG recent thread on a Reef Tank forum, http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/red-sea-max-owners-club/55539-rsm-250-st arted-2-12-10-a-13.html (pages 13-24 of a 60 page thread, for where the guy starts using Dr. Tim's One And Only and he posts regular updates along with many other posters chiming in. Start with post 187). If link breaks - http://tinyurl.com/22o3c8h I see on F&S that One And Only is on sale right now. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18986 How big is your tank again? 2 oz. is for a 30G tank and 4 oz. is for a 60G tank. I don't remember your tank only being 30G. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dr. Tims One and Only I'm going to order some of this; found it at Foster/Smith. However they only have the Marine fish in a 4 oz bottle, my tank needs 2 oz. Can I use the Reef type? I would save $25 over having to buy the large bottle I don't need... Thanks! Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48355	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 6/9/2010
Subject: Re: Dr. Tims One and Only

Yes, my tank is 30 gallon. On my way to check out the links... Janet > > How big is your tank again? 2 oz. is for a 30G tank and 4 oz. is for a > 60G > tank. I don't remember your tank only being 30G. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48356	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/10/2010
Subject: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100610&content_id=11025480&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb http://tinyurl.com/33nk6hs New park to feature aquarium backstop A pair of saltwater aquariums will flank the backstop at the Marlins' new park. (Marlins) By Alden Gonzalez / MLB.com 06/10/10 2:44 PM ET MIAMI -- The Marlins announced a new highlight for their upcoming stadium on Thursday -- dual aquariums that will serve as a home-plate backstop. The twin custom-made saltwater aquariums will flank both sides of home plate while encompassing fish and coral-reef ecosystems at the new ballpark, which will open at the start of the 2012 season. The aquariums were constructed by the world's leading custom aquarium manufacturer, Living Color Enterprises Inc., and "have been designed to utilize the latest cutting-edge technology and will incorporate unique features to ensure the safety and health of the many species of aquatic life that will inhabit them," a team-issued news release stated. The aquarium on the right side of home plate -- when looking from the pitcher's mound -- will measure 34 feet in length and 36 inches high while holding 600 gallons of seawater. The one on the left will be 24 feet long and hold 450 gallons. Each aquarium will be constructed using a durable fiberglass structure, and white crystal-clear acrylic panels 1.5 inches thick will be used for the viewing windows. To safeguard it from impact, Lexan -- the material used for bulletproof windows -- will be installed in front and in back of the acrylic panels. "Our new ballpark will be the pride of Miami and will showcase many of our community's great attributes," Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria said in a statement. "From the distinctive local ballpark cuisine and magnificent city views, to our unique home plate aquariums -- nothing will better symbolize South Florida than our new ballpark. And as we quickly approach our 2012 opening, we look forward to unveiling new, exclusive features that will make our ballpark one of the greatest in the country." The Marlins' new ballpark, which will feature a retractable roof and 37,000-seat capacity, is being constructed on the Orange Bowl grounds of the Little Havana section in Miami. Fans can follow the ballpark's progress via a webcam . ----------------------<30>---------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48357	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/10/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News

Won't the aquariums block the view from the folks that pay extra for home-plate backstop area seating... or maybe those seats start out high enough up to where the fans are looking down on the home-plate. Oops.. I guess I should have looked at the website first. There's a drawing. :-P If the fans *are* allowed to be that close, I have a STRONG feeling that those fish will have serious health issues from the stress of having that many people around their tanks and that close to their tanks. I hope I'm wrong. It's gonna take some serious cooling/refrigeration to keep them tanks cool enough during the HOT (90F-100F) Florida summers but at least the 1.5" thick acrylic tank *glass* will help to insulate the water once it is cooled down. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100610&content_id=11025480&vkey=ne ws_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb http://tinyurl.com/33nk6hs New park to feature aquarium backstop A pair of saltwater aquariums will flank the backstop at the Marlins' new park. (Marlins) By Alden Gonzalez / MLB.com 06/10/10 2:44 PM ET MIAMI -- The Marlins announced a new highlight for their upcoming stadium on Thursday -- dual aquariums that will serve as a home-plate backstop. The twin custom-made saltwater aquariums will flank both sides of home plate while encompassing fish and coral-reef ecosystems at the new ballpark, which will open at the start of the 2012 season. The aquariums were constructed by the world's leading custom aquarium manufacturer, Living Color Enterprises Inc., and "have been designed to utilize the latest cutting-edge technology and will incorporate unique features to ensure the safety and health of the many species of aquatic life that will inhabit them," a team-issued news release stated. The aquarium on the right side of home plate -- when looking from the pitcher's mound -- will measure 34 feet in length and 36 inches high while holding 600 gallons of seawater. The one on the left will be 24 feet long and hold 450 gallons. Each aquarium will be constructed using a durable fiberglass structure, and white crystal-clear acrylic panels 1.5 inches thick will be used for the viewing windows. To safeguard it from impact, Lexan -- the material used for bulletproof windows -- will be installed in front and in back of the acrylic panels. "Our new ballpark will be the pride of Miami and will showcase many of our community's great attributes," Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria said in a statement. "From the distinctive local ballpark cuisine and magnificent city views, to our unique home plate aquariums -- nothing will better symbolize South Florida than our new ballpark. And as we quickly approach our 2012 opening, we look forward to unveiling new, exclusive features that will make our ballpark one of the greatest in the country." The Marlins' new ballpark, which will feature a retractable roof and 37,000-seat capacity, is being constructed on the Orange Bowl grounds of the Little Havana section in Miami. Fans can follow the ballpark's progress via a webcam. ----------------------<30>---------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48358	From: Ray	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News

While I understand that these aquaria will have 1.5" thick bullet-proof Lexan as their viewing panels, I'm still unsure by the link's description as to whether these will be "see-through" aquaria, i.e., whether there will be viewing panels on both the spectators' side and the playing field side. In any event, however, whether there will be complete viewing (on both sides) or not, wouldn't the impact and resultant shock wave from a fouled-off 90 MPH fast ball into one of these aquaria create quite the stressor for these fish, or is there something not being conveyed by the description that I'm missing? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100610&content_id=11025480&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb > http://tinyurl.com/33nk6hs > > New park to feature aquarium backstop > > A pair of saltwater aquariums will flank the backstop at the Marlins' new park. (Marlins) > By Alden Gonzalez / MLB.com > > 06/10/10 2:44 PM ET > > MIAMI -- The Marlins announced a new highlight for their upcoming stadium on Thursday -- dual aquariums that will serve as a home-plate backstop. > > The twin custom-made saltwater aquariums will flank both sides of home plate while encompassing fish and coral-reef ecosystems at the new ballpark, which will open at the start of the 2012 season. > > The aquariums were constructed by the world's leading custom aquarium manufacturer, Living Color Enterprises Inc., and "have been designed to utilize the latest cutting-edge technology and will incorporate unique features to ensure the safety and health of the many species of aquatic life that will inhabit them," a team-issued news release stated. > > The aquarium on the right side of home plate -- when looking from the pitcher's mound -- will measure 34 feet in length and 36 inches high while holding 600 gallons of seawater. The one on the left will be 24 feet long and hold 450 gallons. > > Each aquarium will be constructed using a durable fiberglass structure, and white crystal-clear acrylic panels 1.5 inches thick will be used for the viewing windows. To safeguard it from impact, Lexan -- the material used for bulletproof windows -- will be installed in front and in back of the acrylic panels. > > "Our new ballpark will be the pride of Miami and will showcase many of our community's great attributes," Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria said in a statement. "From the distinctive local ballpark cuisine and magnificent city views, to our unique home plate aquariums -- nothing will better symbolize South Florida than our new ballpark. And as we quickly approach our 2012 opening, we look forward to unveiling new, exclusive features that will make our ballpark one of the greatest in the country." > > The Marlins' new ballpark, which will feature a retractable roof and 37,000-seat capacity, is being constructed on the Orange Bowl grounds of the Little Havana section in Miami. Fans can follow the ballpark's progress via a webcam . > > ----------------------<30>---------------- > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48359	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News

It says that the Lexan will be installed in front and in back of the acrylic to handle impacts. Thus I would presume that both sides would be open for viewing. Since the tanks are being designed by a professional firm that specializes in aquaria building, one can only hope they have a buffer space between the Lexan and the acrylic. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News While I understand that these aquaria will have 1.5" thick bullet-proof Lexan as their viewing panels, I'm still unsure by the link's description as to whether these will be "see-through" aquaria, i.e., whether there will be viewing panels on both the spectators' side and the playing field side. In any event, however, whether there will be complete viewing (on both sides) or not, wouldn't the impact and resultant shock wave from a fouled-off 90 MPH fast ball into one of these aquaria create quite the stressor for these fish, or is there something not being conveyed by the description that I'm missing? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100610&content_id=11025480&vkey=ne ws_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb > http://tinyurl.com/33nk6hs > > New park to feature aquarium backstop > > A pair of saltwater aquariums will flank the backstop at the Marlins' new park. (Marlins) > By Alden Gonzalez / MLB.com > > 06/10/10 2:44 PM ET > > MIAMI -- The Marlins announced a new highlight for their upcoming stadium on Thursday -- dual aquariums that will serve as a home-plate backstop. > > The twin custom-made saltwater aquariums will flank both sides of home plate while encompassing fish and coral-reef ecosystems at the new ballpark, which will open at the start of the 2012 season. > > The aquariums were constructed by the world's leading custom aquarium manufacturer, Living Color Enterprises Inc., and "have been designed to utilize the latest cutting-edge technology and will incorporate unique features to ensure the safety and health of the many species of aquatic life that will inhabit them," a team-issued news release stated. > > The aquarium on the right side of home plate -- when looking from the pitcher's mound -- will measure 34 feet in length and 36 inches high while holding 600 gallons of seawater. The one on the left will be 24 feet long and hold 450 gallons. > > Each aquarium will be constructed using a durable fiberglass structure, and white crystal-clear acrylic panels 1.5 inches thick will be used for the viewing windows. To safeguard it from impact, Lexan -- the material used for bulletproof windows -- will be installed in front and in back of the acrylic panels. > > "Our new ballpark will be the pride of Miami and will showcase many of our community's great attributes," Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria said in a statement. "From the distinctive local ballpark cuisine and magnificent city views, to our unique home plate aquariums -- nothing will better symbolize South Florida than our new ballpark. And as we quickly approach our 2012 opening, we look forward to unveiling new, exclusive features that will make our ballpark one of the greatest in the country." > > The Marlins' new ballpark, which will feature a retractable roof and 37,000-seat capacity, is being constructed on the Orange Bowl grounds of the Little Havana section in Miami. Fans can follow the ballpark's progress via a webcam . > > ----------------------<30>---------------- > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48360	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus

Can anyone tell me about the effectiveness of using oak leaves, indian almond leaves and/or alder cones to prevent fungus in the eggs of acid-loving egg-laying FW fish? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48362	From: hank	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News

Ray: Dont worry about the foul balls hitting the tank I understand they are planning to place several Bat Fish in the tank to deflect those foul balls.<grin> Hank --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > While I understand that these aquaria will have 1.5" thick bullet-proof Lexan as their viewing panels, I'm still unsure by the link's description as to whether these will be "see-through" aquaria, i.e., whether there will be viewing panels on both the spectators' side and the playing field side. In any event, however, whether there will be complete viewing (on both sides) or not, wouldn't the impact and resultant shock wave from a fouled-off 90 MPH fast ball into one of these aquaria create quite the stressor for these fish, or is there something not being conveyed by the description that I'm missing? Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@> wrote: > > > > http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100610&content_id=11025480&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb > > http://tinyurl.com/33nk6hs > > > > New park to feature aquarium backstop > > > > A pair of saltwater aquariums will flank the backstop at the Marlins' new park. (Marlins) > > By Alden Gonzalez / MLB.com > > > > 06/10/10 2:44 PM ET > > > > MIAMI -- The Marlins announced a new highlight for their upcoming stadium on Thursday -- dual aquariums that will serve as a home-plate backstop. > > > > The twin custom-made saltwater aquariums will flank both sides of home plate while encompassing fish and coral-reef ecosystems at the new ballpark, which will open at the start of the 2012 season. > > > > The aquariums were constructed by the world's leading custom aquarium manufacturer, Living Color Enterprises Inc., and "have been designed to utilize the latest cutting-edge technology and will incorporate unique features to ensure the safety and health of the many species of aquatic life that will inhabit them," a team-issued news release stated. > > > > The aquarium on the right side of home plate -- when looking from the pitcher's mound -- will measure 34 feet in length and 36 inches high while holding 600 gallons of seawater. The one on the left will be 24 feet long and hold 450 gallons. > > > > Each aquarium will be constructed using a durable fiberglass structure, and white crystal-clear acrylic panels 1.5 inches thick will be used for the viewing windows. To safeguard it from impact, Lexan -- the material used for bulletproof windows -- will be installed in front and in back of the acrylic panels. > > > > "Our new ballpark will be the pride of Miami and will showcase many of our community's great attributes," Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria said in a statement. "From the distinctive local ballpark cuisine and magnificent city views, to our unique home plate aquariums -- nothing will better symbolize South Florida than our new ballpark. And as we quickly approach our 2012 opening, we look forward to unveiling new, exclusive features that will make our ballpark one of the greatest in the country." > > > > The Marlins' new ballpark, which will feature a retractable roof and 37,000-seat capacity, is being constructed on the Orange Bowl grounds of the Little Havana section in Miami. Fans can follow the ballpark's progress via a webcam . > > > > ----------------------<30>---------------- > > > > \\Steve// > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48363	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News

I think these tanks are being built, maybe by a professional company, but based on a whim by someone associated with the baseball team who doesn't have a clue about fish stress and health issues. It's no different than the professional companies that build the toilet aquariums, etc. I hope there's a real fish keeper with front row seats that can take regular video footage of the tanks to see how they're really coming along and how the fish are acting when there's a thousand people milling about and what the fish do when that errant foul ball smacks the hell out of the tanks. I know the lexan and the rest of the tank will handle the impact of the ball but I can also smack on my bigger tanks pretty good without damage... and in the rare instance when I accidentally let something like a broom handle fall over and smack the glass (no damage), the fish scatter like an atomic bomb went off... and I swear I can hear them saying "WTF WAS THAT!!!!" as the bubbles pop on the surface. ;-) I can only imagine what a 90mph baseball is going to sound like hitting the lexan or fiberglass of the tank's enclosure. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 9:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News It says that the Lexan will be installed in front and in back of the acrylic to handle impacts. Thus I would presume that both sides would be open for viewing. Since the tanks are being designed by a professional firm that specializes in aquaria building, one can only hope they have a buffer space between the Lexan and the acrylic. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 6:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News While I understand that these aquaria will have 1.5" thick bullet-proof Lexan as their viewing panels, I'm still unsure by the link's description as to whether these will be "see-through" aquaria, i.e., whether there will be viewing panels on both the spectators' side and the playing field side. In any event, however, whether there will be complete viewing (on both sides) or not, wouldn't the impact and resultant shock wave from a fouled-off 90 MPH fast ball into one of these aquaria create quite the stressor for these fish, or is there something not being conveyed by the description that I'm missing? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100610&content_id=11025480&vkey=ne ws_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb > http://tinyurl.com/33nk6hs > > New park to feature aquarium backstop > > A pair of saltwater aquariums will flank the backstop at the Marlins' > new park. (Marlins) > By Alden Gonzalez / MLB.com > > 06/10/10 2:44 PM ET > > MIAMI -- The Marlins announced a new highlight for their upcoming > stadium on Thursday -- dual aquariums that will serve as a home-plate backstop. > > The twin custom-made saltwater aquariums will flank both sides of home plate while encompassing fish and coral-reef ecosystems at the new ballpark, which will open at the start of the 2012 season. > > The aquariums were constructed by the world's leading custom aquarium manufacturer, Living Color Enterprises Inc., and "have been designed to utilize the latest cutting-edge technology and will incorporate unique features to ensure the safety and health of the many species of aquatic life that will inhabit them," a team-issued news release stated. > > The aquarium on the right side of home plate -- when looking from the pitcher's mound -- will measure 34 feet in length and 36 inches high while holding 600 gallons of seawater. The one on the left will be 24 feet long and hold 450 gallons. > > Each aquarium will be constructed using a durable fiberglass > structure, and white crystal-clear acrylic panels 1.5 inches thick will be used for the viewing windows. To safeguard it from impact, Lexan -- the material used for bulletproof windows -- will be installed in front and in back of the acrylic panels. > > "Our new ballpark will be the pride of Miami and will showcase many of > our community's great attributes," Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria said in a statement. "From the distinctive local ballpark cuisine and magnificent city views, to our unique home plate aquariums -- nothing will better symbolize South Florida than our new ballpark. And as we quickly approach our 2012 opening, we look forward to unveiling new, exclusive features that will make our ballpark one of the greatest in the country." > > The Marlins' new ballpark, which will feature a retractable roof and 37,000-seat capacity, is being constructed on the Orange Bowl grounds of the Little Havana section in Miami. Fans can follow the ballpark's progress via a webcam . > > ----------------------<30>---------------- > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48364	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News

Wow you would think it would be pretty distracting to the pitcher....

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48365	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus

Lainey, I do not specifically recall anything about oak leaves, but there seems to be a little tickle going off in my head on that topic, or is it just my heavy duty cold that snuck up on me yesterday afternoon? Several years ago, the use of almond leaves seemed to be all the rage and posts about them appeared everywhere, then it died down, and seldom is seen these days. I never did see any scientific studies or claims of scientific studies done with almond leaves to confirm that they may be effective as claimed. It was all anecdotal. As I recall, those who pushed this magic cure the hardest were those who had some for sale. Unless someone else here has the science information, I'd suggest that you save your money and concentrate on keeping your tanks in good shape. If a few eggs fungus, who cares, they were probably not fertile to begin, and, if the parents are not caring for the eggs, you can remove them with a pipette. Also, since you are not breeding for commercial purposes, it really does not matter if you lose a few eggs to fungus. Fungus will not, as a rule, attack viable eggs. If it does, then you will need to look at your maintenance practices, rather than looking for a miracle cure. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus Can anyone tell me about the effectiveness of using oak leaves, indian almond leaves and/or alder cones to prevent fungus in the eggs of acid-loving egg-laying FW fish? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48366	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus

Hi Steve - Actually, they are using Indian almond leaves a lot for blackwater still, for bettas and other acid-loving fish. I think they do work well for blackwater. I am planning to use them for some blackwater fish and I was just wondering if an added benefit might be that the eggs will be protected from fungus. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 11, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I do not specifically recall anything about oak leaves, but there > seems to > be a little tickle going off in my head on that topic, or is it > just my > heavy duty cold that snuck up on me yesterday afternoon? > > Several years ago, the use of almond leaves seemed to be all the > rage and > posts about them appeared everywhere, then it died down, and seldom > is seen > these days. I never did see any scientific studies or claims of > scientific > studies done with almond leaves to confirm that they may be > effective as > claimed. It was all anecdotal. As I recall, those who pushed this > magic cure > the hardest were those who had some for sale. > > Unless someone else here has the science information, I'd suggest > that you > save your money and concentrate on keeping your tanks in good > shape. If a > few eggs fungus, who cares, they were probably not fertile to > begin, and, if > the parents are not caring for the eggs, you can remove them with a > pipette. > > Also, since you are not breeding for commercial purposes, it really > does not > matter if you lose a few eggs to fungus. Fungus will not, as a > rule, attack > viable eggs. If it does, then you will need to look at your > maintenance > practices, rather than looking for a miracle cure. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus > > Can anyone tell me about the effectiveness of using oak leaves, > indian almond leaves and/or alder cones to prevent fungus in the eggs > of acid-loving egg-laying FW fish? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48367	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News

If it is a distraction for the pitcher, then what is he doing up on the mound? His focus should be on home plate, and the immediate surrounding area--batter, catcher, umpire. If there are men on base, the focus gets expanded a bit to those specific areas where the base is. I am a basketball fan, and when a player goes to the foul line for a shot or two or three, he does not see any further than the backboard. All of that waving and commotion by the fans in the area behind the backboard is really for naught. If a shot is missed, it is not from them distracting the shooter. From the original description that was posted by me, I took the description to mean that there was no tank directly behind home plate anyway, but, rather, the two tanks are on both sides of the home plate area. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Deitner Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New park to feature aquarium backstop | MLB.com: News Wow you would think it would be pretty distracting to the pitcher....

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48368	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus

Lainey, Oak leaves, yes, that is what was in my mind, they are used for the tannins they can release into the water. Even though there are other ways to get tannins into the water, leaves in the tank provide "litter" for the fish to investigate, hide under, etc. It may also help promote the growth of beneficial critters that can serve as food for the newly hatched fry, and, even, the adults. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 5:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus Hi Steve - Actually, they are using Indian almond leaves a lot for blackwater still, for bettas and other acid-loving fish. I think they do work well for blackwater. I am planning to use them for some blackwater fish and I was just wondering if an added benefit might be that the eggs will be protected from fungus. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 11, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I do not specifically recall anything about oak leaves, but there > seems to > be a little tickle going off in my head on that topic, or is it > just my > heavy duty cold that snuck up on me yesterday afternoon? > > Several years ago, the use of almond leaves seemed to be all the > rage and > posts about them appeared everywhere, then it died down, and seldom > is seen > these days. I never did see any scientific studies or claims of > scientific > studies done with almond leaves to confirm that they may be > effective as > claimed. It was all anecdotal. As I recall, those who pushed this > magic cure > the hardest were those who had some for sale. > > Unless someone else here has the science information, I'd suggest > that you > save your money and concentrate on keeping your tanks in good > shape. If a > few eggs fungus, who cares, they were probably not fertile to > begin, and, if > the parents are not caring for the eggs, you can remove them with a > pipette. > > Also, since you are not breeding for commercial purposes, it really > does not > matter if you lose a few eggs to fungus. Fungus will not, as a > rule, attack > viable eggs. If it does, then you will need to look at your > maintenance > practices, rather than looking for a miracle cure. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus > > Can anyone tell me about the effectiveness of using oak leaves, > indian almond leaves and/or alder cones to prevent fungus in the eggs > of acid-loving egg-laying FW fish? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48369	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus

Pimafix from API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) is an antifungal treatment and gets it's active ingredient from Pimenta racemosa (West Indian Bay Tree Leaves), so I'm not sure if this is what you've seen. http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Myrtaceae/Pimenta_racemosa.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimenta_racemosa One of API's other products, Melafix, is made with Melaleuca, the Tea Tree. You can probably find the West Indian Bay Tree Leaves available online and from the next paragraph, that thread indicates that you can also get the Alder Cones online... both are probably available on eBay. Here's something about using Alder Cones to prevent fungus. PlanetCatfish is a reputable site with some very knowledgeable fish keepers, albeit, mostly catfish keepers... and I see at least one of the moderators, Coryman, condoned this practice in the thread. http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19561 As far as "blackwater", that is caused by the tannins released by many things... types of decaying leaves, driftwood, peat moss, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus Lainey, Oak leaves, yes, that is what was in my mind, they are used for the tannins they can release into the water. Even though there are other ways to get tannins into the water, leaves in the tank provide "litter" for the fish to investigate, hide under, etc. It may also help promote the growth of beneficial critters that can serve as food for the newly hatched fry, and, even, the adults. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 5:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus Hi Steve - Actually, they are using Indian almond leaves a lot for blackwater still, for bettas and other acid-loving fish. I think they do work well for blackwater. I am planning to use them for some blackwater fish and I was just wondering if an added benefit might be that the eggs will be protected from fungus. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 11, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I do not specifically recall anything about oak leaves, but there > seems to be a little tickle going off in my head on that topic, or is > it just my heavy duty cold that snuck up on me yesterday afternoon? > > Several years ago, the use of almond leaves seemed to be all the rage > and posts about them appeared everywhere, then it died down, and > seldom is seen these days. I never did see any scientific studies or > claims of scientific studies done with almond leaves to confirm that > they may be effective as claimed. It was all anecdotal. As I recall, > those who pushed this magic cure the hardest were those who had some > for sale. > > Unless someone else here has the science information, I'd suggest that > you save your money and concentrate on keeping your tanks in good > shape. If a few eggs fungus, who cares, they were probably not fertile > to begin, and, if the parents are not caring for the eggs, you can > remove them with a pipette. > > Also, since you are not breeding for commercial purposes, it really > does not matter if you lose a few eggs to fungus. Fungus will not, as > a rule, attack viable eggs. If it does, then you will need to look at > your maintenance practices, rather than looking for a miracle cure. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus > > Can anyone tell me about the effectiveness of using oak leaves, indian > almond leaves and/or alder cones to prevent fungus in the eggs of > acid-loving egg-laying FW fish? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48370	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus

Oops.. I meant to add, that tannins from all of the sources mentioned WILL lower your pH so you will want to monitor your pH to make sure you're not lowering it too much, too fast. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus Lainey, Oak leaves, yes, that is what was in my mind, they are used for the tannins they can release into the water. Even though there are other ways to get tannins into the water, leaves in the tank provide "litter" for the fish to investigate, hide under, etc. It may also help promote the growth of beneficial critters that can serve as food for the newly hatched fry, and, even, the adults. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 5:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus Hi Steve - Actually, they are using Indian almond leaves a lot for blackwater still, for bettas and other acid-loving fish. I think they do work well for blackwater. I am planning to use them for some blackwater fish and I was just wondering if an added benefit might be that the eggs will be protected from fungus. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 11, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I do not specifically recall anything about oak leaves, but there > seems to be a little tickle going off in my head on that topic, or is > it just my heavy duty cold that snuck up on me yesterday afternoon? > > Several years ago, the use of almond leaves seemed to be all the rage > and posts about them appeared everywhere, then it died down, and > seldom is seen these days. I never did see any scientific studies or > claims of scientific studies done with almond leaves to confirm that > they may be effective as claimed. It was all anecdotal. As I recall, > those who pushed this magic cure the hardest were those who had some > for sale. > > Unless someone else here has the science information, I'd suggest that > you save your money and concentrate on keeping your tanks in good > shape. If a few eggs fungus, who cares, they were probably not fertile > to begin, and, if the parents are not caring for the eggs, you can > remove them with a pipette. > > Also, since you are not breeding for commercial purposes, it really > does not matter if you lose a few eggs to fungus. Fungus will not, as > a rule, attack viable eggs. If it does, then you will need to look at > your maintenance practices, rather than looking for a miracle cure. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus > > Can anyone tell me about the effectiveness of using oak leaves, indian > almond leaves and/or alder cones to prevent fungus in the eggs of > acid-loving egg-laying FW fish? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48371	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/11/2010
Subject: Re: Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus

Lenny, What Lainey is talking about dates back to before the appearance of Pimafix and Melafix. I cannot say for sure if the almond leaves where just for fungus control, or if they had an effect on the water releasing tannins as well as helping maintain an acid pH. That is what the oak leaves were purported to be used for, and I cannot say that they were recommended for fungus control either, other than the lowering of pH making fungus less likely to develop. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 8:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus Pimafix from API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.) is an antifungal treatment and gets it's active ingredient from Pimenta racemosa (West Indian Bay Tree Leaves), so I'm not sure if this is what you've seen. http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Myrtaceae/Pimenta_racemosa.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimenta_racemosa One of API's other products, Melafix, is made with Melaleuca, the Tea Tree. You can probably find the West Indian Bay Tree Leaves available online and from the next paragraph, that thread indicates that you can also get the Alder Cones online... both are probably available on eBay. Here's something about using Alder Cones to prevent fungus. PlanetCatfish is a reputable site with some very knowledgeable fish keepers, albeit, mostly catfish keepers... and I see at least one of the moderators, Coryman, condoned this practice in the thread. http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19561 As far as "blackwater", that is caused by the tannins released by many things... types of decaying leaves, driftwood, peat moss, etc. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus Lainey, Oak leaves, yes, that is what was in my mind, they are used for the tannins they can release into the water. Even though there are other ways to get tannins into the water, leaves in the tank provide "litter" for the fish to investigate, hide under, etc. It may also help promote the growth of beneficial critters that can serve as food for the newly hatched fry, and, even, the adults. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 5:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus Hi Steve - Actually, they are using Indian almond leaves a lot for blackwater still, for bettas and other acid-loving fish. I think they do work well for blackwater. I am planning to use them for some blackwater fish and I was just wondering if an added benefit might be that the eggs will be protected from fungus. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 11, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I do not specifically recall anything about oak leaves, but there > seems to be a little tickle going off in my head on that topic, or is > it just my heavy duty cold that snuck up on me yesterday afternoon? > > Several years ago, the use of almond leaves seemed to be all the rage > and posts about them appeared everywhere, then it died down, and > seldom is seen these days. I never did see any scientific studies or > claims of scientific studies done with almond leaves to confirm that > they may be effective as claimed. It was all anecdotal. As I recall, > those who pushed this magic cure the hardest were those who had some > for sale. > > Unless someone else here has the science information, I'd suggest that > you save your money and concentrate on keeping your tanks in good > shape. If a few eggs fungus, who cares, they were probably not fertile > to begin, and, if the parents are not caring for the eggs, you can > remove them with a pipette. > > Also, since you are not breeding for commercial purposes, it really > does not matter if you lose a few eggs to fungus. Fungus will not, as > a rule, attack viable eggs. If it does, then you will need to look at > your maintenance practices, rather than looking for a miracle cure. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Leaves/cones for preventing egg fungus > > Can anyone tell me about the effectiveness of using oak leaves, indian > almond leaves and/or alder cones to prevent fungus in the eggs of > acid-loving egg-laying FW fish? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48372	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/14/2010
Subject: A baby! (yes just one that I can see so far).

So I happened to spot a baby albino aenus cory when I was examining the fish tank this morning (it was still dark but the night lights were on and I could see a small little albino fish hovering around a rock). When I turned the lights on I could see the little whiskers and watched it look for food for a few moments. I never thought any would survive because the pleco's and mystery snails keep eating all the eggs, LOL. I guess one was lucky and managed to survive. I'm happy to have one little guy considering I wasn't trying to breed my cory's at all. Sure is a cute little guy though! Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48379	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover

Okay so I happened to be looking at my spare carbon container for my magnum 350 canister filter and was thinking to myself, "That looks like it'll fit around the intake to my AC HOB" Now if you guys remember I have trouble with my mystery snails and them getting sucked into the intake of my filters, EVEN WITH a cover over them (such as a fine mesh). So unless I want to clean out a sponge every day the screen covers weren't working for me anymore. Well I pulled the intake tube off the AC HOB and sure enough it fit perfectly into the hole of the carbon container (which is a plastic mesh somewhat circle shape). I'm not sure if anyone else is interested in this but thought it might help if someone was looking for an alternative fry protector for their intakes on their filters. This is an example of what I'm talking about (the carbon container): http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214011/product.web I don't get any snails stuck to the mesh anymore since it's not right against the intake part of the tube and is now a couple inches away from the intake tube (which lowers the suction pressure against the mesh so my snails don't get slowly sucked in while foraging for food). You'd think anything that stupid deserves to die a slow death but I really dislike finding them dead sucked into my intake on my filter ;) LOL I just can't help but feel sorry for them. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48381	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover

Doesn't the fine mesh screen get clogged up just like a sponge would get clogged up? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover Okay so I happened to be looking at my spare carbon container for my magnum 350 canister filter and was thinking to myself, "That looks like it'll fit around the intake to my AC HOB" Now if you guys remember I have trouble with my mystery snails and them getting sucked into the intake of my filters, EVEN WITH a cover over them (such as a fine mesh). So unless I want to clean out a sponge every day the screen covers weren't working for me anymore. Well I pulled the intake tube off the AC HOB and sure enough it fit perfectly into the hole of the carbon container (which is a plastic mesh somewhat circle shape). I'm not sure if anyone else is interested in this but thought it might help if someone was looking for an alternative fry protector for their intakes on their filters. This is an example of what I'm talking about (the carbon container): http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214011/product.web I don't get any snails stuck to the mesh anymore since it's not right against the intake part of the tube and is now a couple inches away from the intake tube (which lowers the suction pressure against the mesh so my snails don't get slowly sucked in while foraging for food). You'd think anything that stupid deserves to die a slow death but I really dislike finding them dead sucked into my intake on my filter ;) LOL I just can't help but feel sorry for them. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48382	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover

Well probably but it's easier to clean than a sponge, you just swish it around you don't have to squish it repeatedly and hope it comes fairly clean with all the squishing ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Doesn't the fine mesh screen get clogged up just like a sponge would get > clogged up? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover > > Okay so I happened to be looking at my spare carbon container for my > magnum > 350 canister filter and was thinking to myself, "That looks like it'll fit > around the intake to my AC HOB" > Now if you guys remember I have trouble with my mystery snails and them > getting sucked into the intake of my filters, EVEN WITH a cover over them > (such as a fine mesh). So unless I want to clean out a sponge every > day the > screen covers weren't working for me anymore. Well I pulled the intake > tube > off the AC HOB and sure enough it fit perfectly into the hole of the > carbon > container (which is a plastic mesh somewhat circle shape). I'm not sure if > anyone else is interested in this but thought it might help if someone was > looking for an alternative fry protector for their intakes on their > filters. > This is an example of what I'm talking about (the carbon container): > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214011/product.web > > I don't get any snails stuck to the mesh anymore since it's not right > against the intake part of the tube and is now a couple inches away > from the > intake tube (which lowers the suction pressure against the mesh so my > snails > don't get slowly sucked in while foraging for food). You'd think anything > that stupid deserves to die a slow death but I really dislike finding them > dead sucked into my intake on my filter ;) LOL I just can't help but feel > sorry for them. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48383	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover

It would make sense to have a larger mesh screen that is a good distance from the actually intake. The suction on any part of the mesh would be a lot less and thus things shouldn't stick to it as much unless they are light. The downside to this approach would be that you are not going to be sucking up any solids into your filter. Maybe another solution would be to get something like this...put holes in the mesh (and finishing he holes with something so they don’t tear or hurt any of the animals) so that solids can still get in, but the suction at that point wouldn't be enough to suck in the snails. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:48 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover Well probably but it's easier to clean than a sponge, you just swish it around you don't have to squish it repeatedly and hope it comes fairly clean with all the squishing ;) Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Doesn't the fine mesh screen get clogged up just like a sponge would get > clogged up? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover > > Okay so I happened to be looking at my spare carbon container for my > magnum > 350 canister filter and was thinking to myself, "That looks like it'll fit > around the intake to my AC HOB" > Now if you guys remember I have trouble with my mystery snails and them > getting sucked into the intake of my filters, EVEN WITH a cover over them > (such as a fine mesh). So unless I want to clean out a sponge every > day the > screen covers weren't working for me anymore. Well I pulled the intake > tube > off the AC HOB and sure enough it fit perfectly into the hole of the > carbon > container (which is a plastic mesh somewhat circle shape). I'm not sure if > anyone else is interested in this but thought it might help if someone was > looking for an alternative fry protector for their intakes on their > filters. > This is an example of what I'm talking about (the carbon container): > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214011/product.web > > I don't get any snails stuck to the mesh anymore since it's not right > against the intake part of the tube and is now a couple inches away > from the > intake tube (which lowers the suction pressure against the mesh so my > snails > don't get slowly sucked in while foraging for food). You'd think anything > that stupid deserves to die a slow death but I really dislike finding them > dead sucked into my intake on my filter ;) LOL I just can't help but feel > sorry for them. > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48384	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover

My snails are stupid.... They sit on the intake until their body gets sucked inside of the screen and then their body swells up and they can't pull their body back through the intake screen without cutting them out. I'm tired of cutting them out of the intake screens, LOL. If I was to cut a hole in the screen then more of the snail would get sucked in rather than just their mouth/antennae. Amber Eric Roberts wrote: > > It would make sense to have a larger mesh screen that is a good distance > from the actually intake. The suction on any part of the mesh would be a > lot less and thus things shouldn't stick to it as much unless they are > light. The downside to this approach would be that you are not going to be > sucking up any solids into your filter. Maybe another solution would be to > get something like this...put holes in the mesh (and finishing he > holes with > something so they don’t tear or hurt any of the animals) so that > solids can > still get in, but the suction at that point wouldn't be enough to suck in > the snails. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake > cover > > Well probably but it's easier to clean than a sponge, you just swish it > around you don't have to squish it repeatedly and hope it comes fairly > clean with all the squishing ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Doesn't the fine mesh screen get clogged up just like a sponge would get > > clogged up? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake > cover > > > > Okay so I happened to be looking at my spare carbon container for my > > magnum > > 350 canister filter and was thinking to myself, "That looks like > it'll fit > > around the intake to my AC HOB" > > Now if you guys remember I have trouble with my mystery snails and them > > getting sucked into the intake of my filters, EVEN WITH a cover over > them > > (such as a fine mesh). So unless I want to clean out a sponge every > > day the > > screen covers weren't working for me anymore. Well I pulled the intake > > tube > > off the AC HOB and sure enough it fit perfectly into the hole of the > > carbon > > container (which is a plastic mesh somewhat circle shape). I'm not > sure if > > anyone else is interested in this but thought it might help if > someone was > > looking for an alternative fry protector for their intakes on their > > filters. > > This is an example of what I'm talking about (the carbon container): > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214011/product.web > > > > I don't get any snails stuck to the mesh anymore since it's not right > > against the intake part of the tube and is now a couple inches away > > from the > > intake tube (which lowers the suction pressure against the mesh so my > > snails > > don't get slowly sucked in while foraging for food). You'd think > anything > > that stupid deserves to die a slow death but I really dislike > finding them > > dead sucked into my intake on my filter ;) LOL I just can't help but > feel > > sorry for them. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48387	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover

How about building soothing along those lines that goes out far enough to not have a lot of suction directly on the screen? You can probably even dress it up to look like part of the background... -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover My snails are stupid.... They sit on the intake until their body gets sucked inside of the screen and then their body swells up and they can't pull their body back through the intake screen without cutting them out. I'm tired of cutting them out of the intake screens, LOL. If I was to cut a hole in the screen then more of the snail would get sucked in rather than just their mouth/antennae. Amber Eric Roberts wrote: > > It would make sense to have a larger mesh screen that is a good distance > from the actually intake. The suction on any part of the mesh would be a > lot less and thus things shouldn't stick to it as much unless they are > light. The downside to this approach would be that you are not going to be > sucking up any solids into your filter. Maybe another solution would be to > get something like this...put holes in the mesh (and finishing he > holes with > something so they don’t tear or hurt any of the animals) so that > solids can > still get in, but the suction at that point wouldn't be enough to suck in > the snails. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:48 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake > cover > > Well probably but it's easier to clean than a sponge, you just swish it > around you don't have to squish it repeatedly and hope it comes fairly > clean with all the squishing ;) > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > > > Doesn't the fine mesh screen get clogged up just like a sponge would get > > clogged up? > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, > Month) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:29 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake > cover > > > > Okay so I happened to be looking at my spare carbon container for my > > magnum > > 350 canister filter and was thinking to myself, "That looks like > it'll fit > > around the intake to my AC HOB" > > Now if you guys remember I have trouble with my mystery snails and them > > getting sucked into the intake of my filters, EVEN WITH a cover over > them > > (such as a fine mesh). So unless I want to clean out a sponge every > > day the > > screen covers weren't working for me anymore. Well I pulled the intake > > tube > > off the AC HOB and sure enough it fit perfectly into the hole of the > > carbon > > container (which is a plastic mesh somewhat circle shape). I'm not > sure if > > anyone else is interested in this but thought it might help if > someone was > > looking for an alternative fry protector for their intakes on their > > filters. > > This is an example of what I'm talking about (the carbon container): > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214011/product.web > > > > I don't get any snails stuck to the mesh anymore since it's not right > > against the intake part of the tube and is now a couple inches away > > from the > > intake tube (which lowers the suction pressure against the mesh so my > > snails > > don't get slowly sucked in while foraging for food). You'd think > anything > > that stupid deserves to die a slow death but I really dislike > finding them > > dead sucked into my intake on my filter ;) LOL I just can't help but > feel > > sorry for them. > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48390	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Moving a big ol' Pleco

Hey Lenny and the group, Thinking of moving my 12 inch Pleco to the tank with the 2 Severums. Any advice as to the best way to transfer him with the least amount of shock? I have a 5 gallon bucket that I could use to match the water. Maybe I ought to take him upstairs and make Fish and Chips instead???? Should I do some water changes before I move him? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48393	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a big ol' Pleco

Doing a couple of 25% PWC's on each tank, every few hours, will help to get the two tank's water parameters pretty close. What are the two tanks *normal* water parameters? If they are nearly identical after the couple of PWC's, then I would put him in a 5G bucket about 1/2 full of water from his current tank and then bring him to the other tank (his soon to be home) and start adding a cup or two of water every minute or two until the bucket is mostly full... should take about 15-30 minutes. This will slowly acclimate him to the new tank's water and each time you pour the cup or two of water into the bucket, it will aerate the water in the bucket. Once it's close to being full the first time, remove about half of the water from the bucket and start the cup or two process over again until mostly full again. He'll be ready to be moved into his new home now... at least as far as water parameters go. If the water parameters are not already close or nearly identical between the two tanks, then a slower acclimation procedure may be needed... starting with more than just a couple of PWC's on each tank to get them closer first. The bigger issue is how are you planning on catching him? Pleco's have been known to get caught in nets to where they can get injured or you end up having to cut the net up to free the pleco. Many species of catfish, which pleco's are catfish, have protective *spines* in their dorsal and pectoral fins that are capable of inflicting serious injuries to us mere humans and also of getting them caught up in netting... so be very careful handling him/her. Hell hath no fury like a PO'd pleco. ;-) When I rehomed my BIG pleco back in 2006, after it was getting too big for my 65G tank, it was part of moving the tank so I had emptied the tank down to just about 6" inches of water and then I put a small bucket into the tank and coaxed the pleco into the bucket with a net and then lifted him out with water with the smaller bucket and then transferred him from the smaller bucket to a clear Sterilite storage container for the trip to my LFS. All of a sudden, them fish and chips are starting to sound better. LOL HOLY CRAP... I was going to give you a link to a http://www.PlecoFanatics.com article and the site seems to be down. I hope it's just a tonight thing as that site has been a fantastic online resource for many, many years... and the second GOOD site in the past few weeks that I've found to be out of commission. http://www.Aquatic-Hobbyist.com also went kaput in recent times. The Internet Archive Wayback Machine is becoming more and more valuable for preserving and archiving some of the great articles on these websites that are going under. Here is PlecoFanatics on the Wayback Machine... just in case. http://web.archive.org/web/20080618064538/http://www.plecofanatics.com/ Here's the archived article but it's not really as applicable as I thought it might be. http://web.archive.org/web/20080609071502/www.plecofanatics.com/articles/sho wentry.php?e=316 http://tinyurl.com/23bpg4n Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of parkpac@... Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving a big ol' Pleco Hey Lenny and the group, Thinking of moving my 12 inch Pleco to the tank with the 2 Severums. Any advice as to the best way to transfer him with the least amount of shock? I have a 5 gallon bucket that I could use to match the water. Maybe I ought to take him upstairs and make Fish and Chips instead???? Should I do some water changes before I move him? Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48394	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Moving a big ol' Pleco

Put him in a bucket with water from the current tank, and gradually add the water from the new tank. When the bucket gets full empty half and keep adding the new water. The whole process could take as long as you want, the longer the better. Just make sure the water temperature doesn't get too low.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48395	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a big ol' Pleco

Hi Lenny, I test both tanks tomorrow and then see if I can get them close if they're not that way already. You're right about catching him. Got a big net and can wait till he gets up to the front glass. Might happen in the next couple of days. Should be a real adventure moving him from the bucket to the tank. Hopefully , I can almost pour him into his new home. Think that the Severus might hassle him a bit or just ignore him completely? They killed the last fish that I put with them, included a Pleco and some Cories. Because of his size, he should be able to hold his own in there. Lots of room but probably need to add some driftwood. Thanks ,Steve From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Moving a big ol' Pleco Doing a couple of 25% PWC's on each tank, every few hours, will help to get the two tank's water parameters pretty close. What are the two tanks *normal* water parameters? If they are nearly identical after the couple of PWC's, then I would put him in a 5G bucket about 1/2 full of water from his current tank and then bring him to the other tank (his soon to be home) and start adding a cup or two of water every minute or two until the bucket is mostly full... should take about 15-30 minutes. This will slowly acclimate him to the new tank's water and each time you pour the cup or two of water into the bucket, it will aerate the water in the bucket. Once it's close to being full the first time, remove about half of the water from the bucket and start the cup or two process over again until mostly full again. He'll be ready to be moved into his new home now... at least as far as water parameters go. If the water parameters are not already close or nearly identical between the two tanks, then a slower acclimation procedure may be needed... starting with more than just a couple of PWC's on each tank to get them closer first. The bigger issue is how are you planning on catching him? Pleco's have been known to get caught in nets to where they can get injured or you end up having to cut the net up to free the pleco. Many species of catfish, which pleco's are catfish, have protective *spines* in their dorsal and pectoral fins that are capable of inflicting serious injuries to us mere humans and also of getting them caught up in netting... so be very careful handling him/her. Hell hath no fury like a PO'd pleco. ;-) When I rehomed my BIG pleco back in 2006, after it was getting too big for my 65G tank, it was part of moving the tank so I had emptied the tank down to just about 6" inches of water and then I put a small bucket into the tank and coaxed the pleco into the bucket with a net and then lifted him out with water with the smaller bucket and then transferred him from the smaller bucket to a clear Sterilite storage container for the trip to my LFS. All of a sudden, them fish and chips are starting to sound better. LOL HOLY CRAP... I was going to give you a link to a http://www.PlecoFanatics.com article and the site seems to be down. I hope it's just a tonight thing as that site has been a fantastic online resource for many, many years... and the second GOOD site in the past few weeks that I've found to be out of commission. http://www.Aquatic-Hobbyist.com also went kaput in recent times. The Internet Archive Wayback Machine is becoming more and more valuable for preserving and archiving some of the great articles on these websites that are going under. Here is PlecoFanatics on the Wayback Machine... just in case. http://web.archive.org/web/20080618064538/http://www.plecofanatics.com/ Here's the archived article but it's not really as applicable as I thought it might be. http://web.archive.org/web/20080609071502/www.plecofanatics.com/articles/sho wentry.php?e=316 http://tinyurl.com/23bpg4n Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of parkpac@... Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving a big ol' Pleco Hey Lenny and the group, Thinking of moving my 12 inch Pleco to the tank with the 2 Severums. Any advice as to the best way to transfer him with the least amount of shock? I have a 5 gallon bucket that I could use to match the water. Maybe I ought to take him upstairs and make Fish and Chips instead???? Should I do some water changes before I move him? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48396	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Moving a big ol' Pleco

What size tank is this? I was presuming it's a BIG tank with your plans for two Severums and a common pleco... and I presume it's a common pleco because of it's size. They should have a minimum of 75G of water volume just for them so the tank should be close to the 200G range... hopefully. Whenever adding new fish to an existing tank, it's always a GOOD idea to move the decorations, rocks, plants, etc., around to break up any existing territories before adding the new fish so it enters the tank on equal footing as far as territorial issues. Then the three fish will all be like they are in a new tank and any aggression will hopefully be spread out amongst all the fish instead of just at the new fish. Yes, most pleco's NEED driftwood in their tanks... as part of their diet. They actually eat it as part of their natural diet. I've seen a pleco hang on a piece of driftwood and gnaw at it for hours and a long strand of poop would be coming out the entire time as they eat the wood and pass it through. Now that's a high fiber diet!!! In case you haven't seen this before, here's a couple of good articles on feeding pleco's... once again, the PlecoFanatics article is *saved* on the Internet Archive site. http://web.archive.org/web/20061023094514/http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum /showthread.php?t=11018 OR http://tinyurl.com/2crs546 http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/shanesworld.php?article_id=294 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of parkpac@... Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:28 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Moving a big ol' Pleco Hi Lenny, I test both tanks tomorrow and then see if I can get them close if they're not that way already. You're right about catching him. Got a big net and can wait till he gets up to the front glass. Might happen in the next couple of days. Should be a real adventure moving him from the bucket to the tank. Hopefully , I can almost pour him into his new home. Think that the Severus might hassle him a bit or just ignore him completely? They killed the last fish that I put with them, included a Pleco and some Cories. Because of his size, he should be able to hold his own in there. Lots of room but probably need to add some driftwood. Thanks ,Steve From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Moving a big ol' Pleco Doing a couple of 25% PWC's on each tank, every few hours, will help to get the two tank's water parameters pretty close. What are the two tanks *normal* water parameters? If they are nearly identical after the couple of PWC's, then I would put him in a 5G bucket about 1/2 full of water from his current tank and then bring him to the other tank (his soon to be home) and start adding a cup or two of water every minute or two until the bucket is mostly full... should take about 15-30 minutes. This will slowly acclimate him to the new tank's water and each time you pour the cup or two of water into the bucket, it will aerate the water in the bucket. Once it's close to being full the first time, remove about half of the water from the bucket and start the cup or two process over again until mostly full again. He'll be ready to be moved into his new home now... at least as far as water parameters go. If the water parameters are not already close or nearly identical between the two tanks, then a slower acclimation procedure may be needed... starting with more than just a couple of PWC's on each tank to get them closer first. The bigger issue is how are you planning on catching him? Pleco's have been known to get caught in nets to where they can get injured or you end up having to cut the net up to free the pleco. Many species of catfish, which pleco's are catfish, have protective *spines* in their dorsal and pectoral fins that are capable of inflicting serious injuries to us mere humans and also of getting them caught up in netting... so be very careful handling him/her. Hell hath no fury like a PO'd pleco. ;-) When I rehomed my BIG pleco back in 2006, after it was getting too big for my 65G tank, it was part of moving the tank so I had emptied the tank down to just about 6" inches of water and then I put a small bucket into the tank and coaxed the pleco into the bucket with a net and then lifted him out with water with the smaller bucket and then transferred him from the smaller bucket to a clear Sterilite storage container for the trip to my LFS. All of a sudden, them fish and chips are starting to sound better. LOL HOLY CRAP... I was going to give you a link to a http://www.PlecoFanatics.com article and the site seems to be down. I hope it's just a tonight thing as that site has been a fantastic online resource for many, many years... and the second GOOD site in the past few weeks that I've found to be out of commission. http://www.Aquatic-Hobbyist.com also went kaput in recent times. The Internet Archive Wayback Machine is becoming more and more valuable for preserving and archiving some of the great articles on these websites that are going under. Here is PlecoFanatics on the Wayback Machine... just in case. http://web.archive.org/web/20080618064538/http://www.plecofanatics.com/ Here's the archived article but it's not really as applicable as I thought it might be. http://web.archive.org/web/20080609071502/www.plecofanatics.com/articles/sho wentry.php?e=316 http://tinyurl.com/23bpg4n Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of parkpac@... Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moving a big ol' Pleco Hey Lenny and the group, Thinking of moving my 12 inch Pleco to the tank with the 2 Severums. Any advice as to the best way to transfer him with the least amount of shock? I have a 5 gallon bucket that I could use to match the water. Maybe I ought to take him upstairs and make Fish and Chips instead???? Should I do some water changes before I move him? Thanks, Steve

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48397	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/15/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover

Oh I forgot to add that so far after a full day of use there are no visible debri on the "new" intake cover I'm using. So either all my snails are safely eating the leftovers and not leaving anything behind, or the suction isn't bad enough to have stuff stuck to it yet. I will update as to how well it works compared to the sponge I was using earlier this year. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Doesn't the fine mesh screen get clogged up just like a sponge would get > clogged up? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover > > Okay so I happened to be looking at my spare carbon container for my > magnum > 350 canister filter and was thinking to myself, "That looks like it'll fit > around the intake to my AC HOB" > Now if you guys remember I have trouble with my mystery snails and them > getting sucked into the intake of my filters, EVEN WITH a cover over them > (such as a fine mesh). So unless I want to clean out a sponge every > day the > screen covers weren't working for me anymore. Well I pulled the intake > tube > off the AC HOB and sure enough it fit perfectly into the hole of the > carbon > container (which is a plastic mesh somewhat circle shape). I'm not sure if > anyone else is interested in this but thought it might help if someone was > looking for an alternative fry protector for their intakes on their > filters. > This is an example of what I'm talking about (the carbon container): > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214011/product.web > > I don't get any snails stuck to the mesh anymore since it's not right > against the intake part of the tube and is now a couple inches away > from the > intake tube (which lowers the suction pressure against the mesh so my > snails > don't get slowly sucked in while foraging for food). You'd think anything > that stupid deserves to die a slow death but I really dislike finding them > dead sucked into my intake on my filter ;) LOL I just can't help but feel > sorry for them. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48398	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 6/16/2010
Subject: A couple of questions

HI Everyone I have a couple of questions that I hope you can help me with. If there are previous posts that cover this, I apologize--please point me in the right direction and I will read up! I have a 20 gallon tank with 6 glofish (genetically modified danios), 3 long finned danios, a neon tetra whose "pack" died, and a mini catfish. I HAD 3 DAFs. One I moved to a hospital tank when it stopped eating and became lethargic. I ended up euthanizing it after it didn't eat for a month and just looked terrible. Now another of my DAFs is acting the same way :( So here are my questions: 1. How should I clean my tank to get rid of whatever killed the frogs (which despite research and consulation with veterinarians I was never able to determine) without actually starting over completely and possibly killing off my fish and/or having to restart the whole nitrogen cycle again? 2. This tank is really my two daughters' tank. The one who "owned" the frogs really wants a Beta. How well would a Beta do with the danios? She is dead set against any other kind of fish. Thank you so much in advance for your help.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48403	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/16/2010
Subject: Re: A couple of questions

Okay I'm going to answer question 2 first. Beta's will not do very good with fish that are fast and pick on other fish (yes this includes danio's). My glofish used to gang up on my beta and chase him, so I finally moved him to his own tank instead, where he's much happier. What are your tank parameters? (pH, KH, GH, nitrate, nitrites, ammonia). That might help us determine what went wrong with the DAF's, they might not have been in water conditions that they can live in naturally (just a guess). Fish regularly will slowly die off if you try to keep them in water conditions that are too far out of their normal range (such as a really high pH for a fish that needs lower pH). Amber twin_chicken_mama wrote: > > HI Everyone > > I have a couple of questions that I hope you can help me with. If > there are previous posts that cover this, I apologize--please point me > in the right direction and I will read up! > > I have a 20 gallon tank with 6 glofish (genetically modified danios), > 3 long finned danios, a neon tetra whose "pack" died, and a mini > catfish. I HAD 3 DAFs. One I moved to a hospital tank when it stopped > eating and became lethargic. I ended up euthanizing it after it didn't > eat for a month and just looked terrible. Now another of my DAFs is > acting the same way :( So here are my questions: > > 1. How should I clean my tank to get rid of whatever killed the frogs > (which despite research and consulation with veterinarians I was never > able to determine) without actually starting over completely and > possibly killing off my fish and/or having to restart the whole > nitrogen cycle again? > > 2. This tank is really my two daughters' tank. The one who "owned" the > frogs really wants a Beta. How well would a Beta do with the danios? > She is dead set against any other kind of fish. > > Thank you so much in advance for your help. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48405	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 6/16/2010
Subject: A couple of questions

what killed the frogs will probably not kill the fish, but if it is a disease, you would probably have to strip it down and bleach everything. And, yes you would have to redo the nitrogen cycle. The betta is probably not a very good idea due to the fact you have long finned danios. Anything which resembles a betta will cause trouble.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48456	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 6/17/2010
Subject: Power Outage

Hello Group. Sorry to change the discussion back to fish... I am using a wet/dry system with bioballs and purigen. We had a power outage and the bioballs were completelly submerged in water for over 5 hours. It is all now up and running again and all fish seem to be ok. Should I expected a mini cycle or any issues? Did my bacteria die? Alex _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48457	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/17/2010
Subject: Re: Power Outage

Hey... somebody had to do it! LOL Just so were all on the same page, what type of wet/dry system are you using? Do you have a link to your system online or a brand/model or if it's a DIY system? The BIGGEST problem related to power outages and filter systems when the power is off for very long, it not only the dying off of nitrifying bacteria but if the filter was not properly maintained and had lots of detritus, that can turn the water in the reservoir into a toxic mess and then when the power comes back on, it dumps that toxic water back into the tank. If this happened to you, I would do one or more 25% PWC's to help remove the pollutants and add some always good fresh water to your tank. This is more of a problem for canister filters than HOBs since at least, the HOB's have an open reservoir so the water can do some ingasing and outgasing. If you have a test kit, start testing your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH levels for the next several days to a week and that would be your best indicator of whether you are going to have cycling issues. I would say to observe your fish also but if your fish start acting up, it could be related to cycling or it could be related to any toxic/stagnant water that got circulated into your tank when the filter started back up. I have a LONG blog article about Power Outages on my blog for more info.. and how me and my tanks all survived 14 days of no power after Hurricane Katrina. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:07 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Power Outage Hello Group. Sorry to change the discussion back to fish... I am using a wet/dry system with bioballs and purigen. We had a power outage and the bioballs were completelly submerged in water for over 5 hours. It is all now up and running again and all fish seem to be ok. Should I expected a mini cycle or any issues? Did my bacteria die? Alex

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48458	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/17/2010
Subject: Re: A couple of questions

Yeah, I pretty much agree with Amber and Jonathan's replies but I'll add... How deep is the water in your 20G? ADF's do NOT like deep water and some common 20G tanks can be too deep for them if filled to the top. They prefer water levels 12" or less.... and definitely not deeper than 16". If your other fish are doing OK now, you probably DO NOT have to do anything drastic... just regular weekly tank maintenance, vacuuming the gravel to remove as much detritus as possible (detritus is a nice word for fish poop, uneaten food, etc.) and also *properly* cleaning your filter media. See my blog article on proper "Filter Maintenance And Cleaning...", all of this tank maintenance as part of your weekly 25% PWC (partial water change). Here are a few decent profiles and care sheets on ADF's.. or if you take ONLY the good from each article, you'll have a much better profile and care sheet. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile99.html http://www.flippersandfins.net/adfcaresheet.htm http://thegab.org/Tropicals/african-dwarf-frogs-care-sheet.html And a Yahoo Group especially for ADF's... or rather they call them DAF's. I think the ADF acronym is more common if you're ever doing online research for them. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DwarfAfricanFrogs/ Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] A couple of questions Okay I'm going to answer question 2 first. Beta's will not do very good with fish that are fast and pick on other fish (yes this includes danio's). My glofish used to gang up on my beta and chase him, so I finally moved him to his own tank instead, where he's much happier. What are your tank parameters? (pH, KH, GH, nitrate, nitrites, ammonia). That might help us determine what went wrong with the DAF's, they might not have been in water conditions that they can live in naturally (just a guess). Fish regularly will slowly die off if you try to keep them in water conditions that are too far out of their normal range (such as a really high pH for a fish that needs lower pH). Amber twin_chicken_mama wrote: > > HI Everyone > > I have a couple of questions that I hope you can help me with. If > there are previous posts that cover this, I apologize--please point me > in the right direction and I will read up! > > I have a 20 gallon tank with 6 glofish (genetically modified danios), > 3 long finned danios, a neon tetra whose "pack" died, and a mini > catfish. I HAD 3 DAFs. One I moved to a hospital tank when it stopped > eating and became lethargic. I ended up euthanizing it after it didn't > eat for a month and just looked terrible. Now another of my DAFs is > acting the same way :( So here are my questions: > > 1. How should I clean my tank to get rid of whatever killed the frogs > (which despite research and consulation with veterinarians I was never > able to determine) without actually starting over completely and > possibly killing off my fish and/or having to restart the whole > nitrogen cycle again? > > 2. This tank is really my two daughters' tank. The one who "owned" the > frogs really wants a Beta. How well would a Beta do with the danios? > She is dead set against any other kind of fish. > > Thank you so much in advance for your help.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48470	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/17/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover

Okay so after 3 days there are still no visible debris on the new intake cover. I'm thinking this is going to work much better than a sponge, with a sponge I'd already have to clean it out (usually every 3-4 days it's horridly dirty and the filter doesn't work as well so I have to rinse it out every few days). When I do my filter cleaning this weekend I'll take the intake cover off and see how clean it is. Amber Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > > Doesn't the fine mesh screen get clogged up just like a sponge would get > clogged up? > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover > > Okay so I happened to be looking at my spare carbon container for my > magnum > 350 canister filter and was thinking to myself, "That looks like it'll fit > around the intake to my AC HOB" > Now if you guys remember I have trouble with my mystery snails and them > getting sucked into the intake of my filters, EVEN WITH a cover over them > (such as a fine mesh). So unless I want to clean out a sponge every > day the > screen covers weren't working for me anymore. Well I pulled the intake > tube > off the AC HOB and sure enough it fit perfectly into the hole of the > carbon > container (which is a plastic mesh somewhat circle shape). I'm not sure if > anyone else is interested in this but thought it might help if someone was > looking for an alternative fry protector for their intakes on their > filters. > This is an example of what I'm talking about (the carbon container): > http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214011/product.web > > I don't get any snails stuck to the mesh anymore since it's not right > against the intake part of the tube and is now a couple inches away > from the > intake tube (which lowers the suction pressure against the mesh so my > snails > don't get slowly sucked in while foraging for food). You'd think anything > that stupid deserves to die a slow death but I really dislike finding them > dead sucked into my intake on my filter ;) LOL I just can't help but feel > sorry for them. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48486	From: Ldyminx	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Fresh water aquascaping - best website for ideas?

Hello everyone, Finally got moved into the new house, Koi are still be kept in a friends pond until I have mine comepleted but now looking towards re-doing my 125g. Inhabitants - saw two sets of discus fish that were absolutely stunning, one set in turquoise and another that was almost shades of royal blue. Maybe a few ghost shrimp and a few schools of something fairly small. I would like to incorporate driftwood, perhaps a few dragon stones, but lots of greenery and some empty floorspace to fill with white sand for contrast. What are some of your favorite sites for ideas? Chris Owens (NOVA)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48489	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root

Any ideas? I have bacopa with no roots and crypts with ¼” roots. I have tried a couple things that didn’t work and a couple things that did to keep them in the substrate long enough for roots to develop. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48490	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root

What have you tried that worked and didn't work... might save us some typing. ;-) I would try the little lead-like strips that come on many retail bundles of plants, to hold the plant down. They can be loosely placed around the base of the plant so it doesn't harm them while they take root. If the plants can tolerate it, you can also mound up the substrate around an inch of the plant... or as much as you can without harming the plant... but the crypts may not like this method. If you have fish that like to re-decorate, then you can put a plastic cylinder like fence around the plant to keep the fish away... just like we do with terrestrial plants to protect them from animals. You can use fiberglass or nylon screen material from a hardware or big-box home store for making these, using monofilament line to *sew* the cylinder and top to the right size. What species of each plant? Bacopa genus is a common terrestrial plant as well as aquatic. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/go.php found three species by typing bacopa in the first field with the synonym choice in the drop down menu. Links to profiles showed up in search but I just copy/pasted the text from each below. Bacopa salzmannii Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Araguaia' Summary : Moderate Oldenlandia salzmannii Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Pantanal' (erroneous) Summary : Easy Rotala sp. 'Araguaia' Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Red' (erroneous) Summary : Difficult A search in http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/ yields 5 hits... (clicking on the picture in each hit will open the plant profile) Proper Name: Bacopa Caroliniana Common Name: Bacopa Comments: 1 Images: 2 Proper Name: Bacopa monnieri Common Name: Water Hyssop, Bacopa Comments: 3 Images: 3 Proper Name: Bacopa sp. 'Colorata' Common Name: Bacopa Pink Comments: 0 Images: 2 Proper Name: Bacopa myriophylliodes Common Name: Bacopa frill Comments: 1 Images: 1 Proper Name: Bacopa Australis Common Name: Bacopa Australis Comments: 0 Images: 1 POOR PLANTGEEK.NET IS NO LONGER WITH US... EXCEPT MOST OF IT IS STILL ON THE INTERNET ARCHIVES WAYBACK MACHINE. http://web.archive.org/web/20080822062717/http://www.plantgeek.net/ And the Plant Guide is still mostly intact as well. http://web.archive.org/web/20080822000435/http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguid e.php It seems to be working well in the archive so that's a plus... although the search and advanced search features do not seem to work for me. But using buttons work and the Genus button brought up an alpha list of Genera and came up with 7 hits. The actual site has active links for each of the below. Bacopa australis Bacopa australis Difficulty: Easy Lighting Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Middle Category: Aquarium Plant Bacopa crenata Bacopa crenata Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: High Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium Plant Bacopa madagascariensis Bacopa madagascariensis Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: Medium High Tank Placement: Middle Category: Aquarium Plant Bacopa myriophylloides Bacopa myriophylloides Difficulty: Difficult Lighting Requirements: High Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium Plant Giant Bacopa Bacopa caroliniana Also Known As: Water hyssop; Lemon bacopa Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium Plant Hairy Water Hyssop Bacopa lanigera Difficulty: Difficult Lighting Requirements: Medium High Tank Placement: Not Specific Category: Aquarium Plant Moneywort Bacopa monnieri Also Known As: Herb of grace; Water hyssop Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium and Pond Plant Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root Any ideas? I have bacopa with no roots and crypts with ¼” roots. I have tried a couple things that didn’t work and a couple things that did to keep them in the substrate long enough for roots to develop.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48500	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root

Cryptocoryne lucens. Just planting in Flourite did not work, nor did black hairpins used to loop through one leaf stalk to pin them to the substrate. I am potting them in 3” terra cotta pots (sunk in pool filter sand) to minimize the digging, allow for the use of Flourite and still give the peacocks sand. Bacopa monnieri. Planting in Flourite did not work even though I stripped the leaves and buried 3” of the stems. The fish are supposed to be carnivores, but between poking between the stems for food particles and nibbling, the fish are causing problems even with the pots. Working: I made a collar around each pot out of polyester batting (for handmade baby quilts) and filled it with one inch of coarse gravel. I also set up a 10G on my desk and some of the bacopa have been growing there for a while, hopefully rooting and will hold when placed in the tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root What have you tried that worked and didn't work... might save us some typing. ;-) I would try the little lead-like strips that come on many retail bundles of plants, to hold the plant down. They can be loosely placed around the base of the plant so it doesn't harm them while they take root. If the plants can tolerate it, you can also mound up the substrate around an inch of the plant... or as much as you can without harming the plant... but the crypts may not like this method. If you have fish that like to re-decorate, then you can put a plastic cylinder like fence around the plant to keep the fish away... just like we do with terrestrial plants to protect them from animals. You can use fiberglass or nylon screen material from a hardware or big-box home store for making these, using monofilament line to *sew* the cylinder and top to the right size. What species of each plant? Bacopa genus is a common terrestrial plant as well as aquatic. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/go.php found three species by typing bacopa in the first field with the synonym choice in the drop down menu. Links to profiles showed up in search but I just copy/pasted the text from each below. Bacopa salzmannii Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Araguaia' Summary : Moderate Oldenlandia salzmannii Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Pantanal' (erroneous) Summary : Easy Rotala sp. 'Araguaia' Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Red' (erroneous) Summary : Difficult A search in http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/ yields 5 hits... (clicking on the picture in each hit will open the plant profile) Proper Name: Bacopa Caroliniana Common Name: Bacopa Comments: 1 Images: 2 Proper Name: Bacopa monnieri Common Name: Water Hyssop, Bacopa Comments: 3 Images: 3 Proper Name: Bacopa sp. 'Colorata' Common Name: Bacopa Pink Comments: 0 Images: 2 Proper Name: Bacopa myriophylliodes Common Name: Bacopa frill Comments: 1 Images: 1 Proper Name: Bacopa Australis Common Name: Bacopa Australis Comments: 0 Images: 1 POOR PLANTGEEK.NET IS NO LONGER WITH US... EXCEPT MOST OF IT IS STILL ON THE INTERNET ARCHIVES WAYBACK MACHINE. http://web.archive.org/web/20080822062717/http://www.plantgeek.net/ <http://web.archive.org/web/20080822062717/http:/www.plantgeek.net/> And the Plant Guide is still mostly intact as well. http://web.archive.org/web/20080822000435/http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguid <http://web.archive.org/web/20080822000435/http:/www.plantgeek.net/plantguid > e.php It seems to be working well in the archive so that's a plus... although the search and advanced search features do not seem to work for me. But using buttons work and the Genus button brought up an alpha list of Genera and came up with 7 hits. The actual site has active links for each of the below. Bacopa australis Bacopa australis Difficulty: Easy Lighting Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Middle Category: Aquarium Plant Bacopa crenata Bacopa crenata Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: High Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium Plant Bacopa madagascariensis Bacopa madagascariensis Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: Medium High Tank Placement: Middle Category: Aquarium Plant Bacopa myriophylloides Bacopa myriophylloides Difficulty: Difficult Lighting Requirements: High Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium Plant Giant Bacopa Bacopa caroliniana Also Known As: Water hyssop; Lemon bacopa Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium Plant Hairy Water Hyssop Bacopa lanigera Difficulty: Difficult Lighting Requirements: Medium High Tank Placement: Not Specific Category: Aquarium Plant Moneywort Bacopa monnieri Also Known As: Herb of grace; Water hyssop Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium and Pond Plant Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root Any ideas? I have bacopa with no roots and crypts with ¼” roots. I have tried a couple things that didn’t work and a couple things that did to keep them in the substrate long enough for roots to develop. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48501	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root

Looks like you should try the screen cylinders over the plants in the substrate or gravel to give them a month or so of being undisturbed and see how that works out. This is what it would look like for a terrestrial plant. I can't find one, on a smaller scale, for an aquarium but this image http://www.veggiegardeningtips.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/Caged-Goji-Ber ry-Plant.jpg should give you an idea of what I am talking about... except the aquarium screen cylinder would also have a top sewn in place with a few ties of monofilament line. These would be reusable as often as you need in the future so a couple of dollars of material (or you may have the material around hour home already) would work for you. Here is an example of the nylon screen material I am talking about. It's not the small pore screen but rather the larger pore, thicker material like used on a screen door bottom half when you have pets or kids, so they don't tear through the normal small pore screen material. http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/shop/shop_image/product/21d27c6d820b 1c602ec76fe4dd7ae4fb.jpg OR http://tinyurl.com/22skqt9 Something else that popped into my head was making a cone out of the screen material so there would only be one piece of screen so you wouldn't have to *sew* on a top with the monofilament. You might also be able to find a similar type of nylon material at a cloth store or craft store and be able to buy a smaller piece than a full roll that might be all you can find at a hardware or big-box home store. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 7:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root Cryptocoryne lucens. Just planting in Flourite did not work, nor did black hairpins used to loop through one leaf stalk to pin them to the substrate. I am potting them in 3” terra cotta pots (sunk in pool filter sand) to minimize the digging, allow for the use of Flourite and still give the peacocks sand. Bacopa monnieri. Planting in Flourite did not work even though I stripped the leaves and buried 3” of the stems. The fish are supposed to be carnivores, but between poking between the stems for food particles and nibbling, the fish are causing problems even with the pots. Working: I made a collar around each pot out of polyester batting (for handmade baby quilts) and filled it with one inch of coarse gravel. I also set up a 10G on my desk and some of the bacopa have been growing there for a while, hopefully rooting and will hold when placed in the tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 7:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root What have you tried that worked and didn't work... might save us some typing. ;-) I would try the little lead-like strips that come on many retail bundles of plants, to hold the plant down. They can be loosely placed around the base of the plant so it doesn't harm them while they take root. If the plants can tolerate it, you can also mound up the substrate around an inch of the plant... or as much as you can without harming the plant... but the crypts may not like this method. If you have fish that like to re-decorate, then you can put a plastic cylinder like fence around the plant to keep the fish away... just like we do with terrestrial plants to protect them from animals. You can use fiberglass or nylon screen material from a hardware or big-box home store for making these, using monofilament line to *sew* the cylinder and top to the right size. What species of each plant? Bacopa genus is a common terrestrial plant as well as aquatic. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/go.php found three species by typing bacopa in the first field with the synonym choice in the drop down menu. Links to profiles showed up in search but I just copy/pasted the text from each below. Bacopa salzmannii Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Araguaia' Summary : Moderate Oldenlandia salzmannii Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Pantanal' (erroneous) Summary : Easy Rotala sp. 'Araguaia' Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Red' (erroneous) Summary : Difficult A search in http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/ yields 5 hits... (clicking on the picture in each hit will open the plant profile) Proper Name: Bacopa Caroliniana Common Name: Bacopa Comments: 1 Images: 2 Proper Name: Bacopa monnieri Common Name: Water Hyssop, Bacopa Comments: 3 Images: 3 Proper Name: Bacopa sp. 'Colorata' Common Name: Bacopa Pink Comments: 0 Images: 2 Proper Name: Bacopa myriophylliodes Common Name: Bacopa frill Comments: 1 Images: 1 Proper Name: Bacopa Australis Common Name: Bacopa Australis Comments: 0 Images: 1 POOR PLANTGEEK.NET IS NO LONGER WITH US... EXCEPT MOST OF IT IS STILL ON THE INTERNET ARCHIVES WAYBACK MACHINE. http://web.archive.org/web/20080822062717/http://www.plantgeek.net/ <http://web.archive.org/web/20080822062717/http:/www.plantgeek.net/> And the Plant Guide is still mostly intact as well. http://web.archive.org/web/20080822000435/http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguid <http://web.archive.org/web/20080822000435/http:/www.plantgeek.net/plantguid > e.php It seems to be working well in the archive so that's a plus... although the search and advanced search features do not seem to work for me. But using buttons work and the Genus button brought up an alpha list of Genera and came up with 7 hits. The actual site has active links for each of the below. Bacopa australis Bacopa australis Difficulty: Easy Lighting Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Middle Category: Aquarium Plant Bacopa crenata Bacopa crenata Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: High Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium Plant Bacopa madagascariensis Bacopa madagascariensis Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: Medium High Tank Placement: Middle Category: Aquarium Plant Bacopa myriophylloides Bacopa myriophylloides Difficulty: Difficult Lighting Requirements: High Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium Plant Giant Bacopa Bacopa caroliniana Also Known As: Water hyssop; Lemon bacopa Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium Plant Hairy Water Hyssop Bacopa lanigera Difficulty: Difficult Lighting Requirements: Medium High Tank Placement: Not Specific Category: Aquarium Plant Moneywort Bacopa monnieri Also Known As: Herb of grace; Water hyssop Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Backdrop Category: Aquarium and Pond Plant Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root Any ideas? I have bacopa with no roots and crypts with ¼” roots. I have tried a couple things that didn’t work and a couple things that did to keep them in the substrate long enough for roots to develop.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48502	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/18/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root

Donna, My plants used to pop up incessantly until I started adding root tabs to the substrate. I know you don't need to, but it really helps with root growth. My stems never pop up now and they root in a day or two, no more. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 18, 2010, at 11:11 PM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: > Looks like you should try the screen cylinders over the plants in the > substrate or gravel to give them a month or so of being undisturbed > and see > how that works out. > > This is what it would look like for a terrestrial plant. I can't > find one, > on a smaller scale, for an aquarium but this image > http://www.veggiegardeningtips.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/Caged- > Goji-Ber > ry-Plant.jpg should give you an idea of what I am talking about... > except > the aquarium screen cylinder would also have a top sewn in place > with a few > ties of monofilament line. These would be reusable as often as you > need in > the future so a couple of dollars of material (or you may have the > material > around hour home already) would work for you. > > Here is an example of the nylon screen material I am talking about. > It's > not the small pore screen but rather the larger pore, thicker > material like > used on a screen door bottom half when you have pets or kids, so > they don't > tear through the normal small pore screen material. > http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/shop/shop_image/product/ > 21d27c6d820b > 1c602ec76fe4dd7ae4fb.jpg > > OR http://tinyurl.com/22skqt9 > > Something else that popped into my head was making a cone out of > the screen > material so there would only be one piece of screen so you wouldn't > have to > *sew* on a top with the monofilament. > > You might also be able to find a similar type of nylon material at > a cloth > store or craft store and be able to buy a smaller piece than a full > roll > that might be all you can find at a hardware or big-box home store. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 7:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root > > Cryptocoryne lucens. Just planting in Flourite did not work, nor > did black > hairpins used to loop through one leaf stalk to pin them to the > substrate. > I am potting them in 3� terra cotta pots (sunk in pool filter sand) to > minimize the digging, allow for the use of Flourite and still give the > peacocks sand. > > Bacopa monnieri. Planting in Flourite did not work even though I > stripped > the leaves and buried 3� of the stems. > > The fish are supposed to be carnivores, but between poking between > the stems > for food particles and nibbling, the fish are causing problems even > with the > pots. > > Working: I made a collar around each pot out of polyester batting (for > handmade baby quilts) and filled it with one inch of coarse gravel. > > I also set up a 10G on my desk and some of the bacopa have been > growing > there for a while, hopefully rooting and will hold when placed in > the tank. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 7:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root > > What have you tried that worked and didn't work... might save us some > typing. ;-) > > I would try the little lead-like strips that come on many retail > bundles of > plants, to hold the plant down. They can be loosely placed around > the base > of the plant so it doesn't harm them while they take root. If the > plants can > tolerate it, you can also mound up the substrate around an inch of the > plant... or as much as you can without harming the plant... but the > crypts > may not like this method. If you have fish that like to re- > decorate, then > you can put a plastic cylinder like fence around the plant to keep > the fish > away... just like we do with terrestrial plants to protect them from > animals. You can use fiberglass or nylon screen material from a > hardware or > big-box home store for making these, using monofilament line to > *sew* the > cylinder and top to the right size. > > What species of each plant? Bacopa genus is a common terrestrial > plant as > well as aquatic. > > http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/go.php > found three > species by typing bacopa in the first field with the synonym choice > in the > drop down menu. Links to profiles showed up in search but I just > copy/pasted > the text from each below. > > Bacopa salzmannii > Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Araguaia' > Summary : Moderate > > Oldenlandia salzmannii > Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Pantanal' (erroneous) Summary : Easy > > Rotala sp. 'Araguaia' > Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Red' (erroneous) > Summary : Difficult > > A search in http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/ yields 5 > hits... > (clicking on the picture in each hit will open the plant profile) > > Proper Name: Bacopa Caroliniana > Common Name: Bacopa > Comments: 1 > Images: 2 > > Proper Name: Bacopa monnieri > Common Name: Water Hyssop, Bacopa > Comments: 3 > Images: 3 > > Proper Name: Bacopa sp. 'Colorata' > Common Name: Bacopa Pink > Comments: 0 > Images: 2 > > Proper Name: Bacopa myriophylliodes > Common Name: Bacopa frill > Comments: 1 > Images: 1 > > Proper Name: Bacopa Australis > Common Name: Bacopa Australis > Comments: 0 > Images: 1 > > POOR PLANTGEEK.NET IS NO LONGER WITH US... EXCEPT MOST OF IT IS > STILL ON THE > INTERNET ARCHIVES WAYBACK MACHINE. > http://web.archive.org/web/20080822062717/http://www.plantgeek.net/ > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080822062717/http:/www.plantgeek.net/> > > And the Plant Guide is still mostly intact as well. > http://web.archive.org/web/20080822000435/http://www.plantgeek.net/ > plantguid > <http://web.archive.org/web/20080822000435/http:/www.plantgeek.net/ > plantguid > > > e.php > > It seems to be working well in the archive so that's a plus... > although the > search and advanced search features do not seem to work for me. But > using > buttons work and the Genus button brought up an alpha list of > Genera and > came up with 7 hits. The actual site has active links for each of > the below. > > Bacopa australis > Bacopa australis Difficulty: Easy > Lighting Requirements: Medium > Tank Placement: Middle > Category: Aquarium Plant > > Bacopa crenata > Bacopa crenata Difficulty: Moderate > Lighting Requirements: High > Tank Placement: Backdrop > Category: Aquarium Plant > > Bacopa madagascariensis > Bacopa madagascariensis Difficulty: Moderate Lighting Requirements: > Medium > High Tank Placement: Middle > Category: Aquarium Plant > > Bacopa myriophylloides > Bacopa myriophylloides Difficulty: Difficult Lighting Requirements: > High > Tank Placement: Backdrop > Category: Aquarium Plant > > Giant Bacopa > Bacopa caroliniana > Also Known As: Water hyssop; Lemon bacopa Difficulty: Moderate > Lighting > Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Backdrop > Category: Aquarium Plant > > Hairy Water Hyssop > Bacopa lanigera Difficulty: Difficult > Lighting Requirements: Medium High > Tank Placement: Not Specific > Category: Aquarium Plant > > Moneywort > Bacopa monnieri > Also Known As: Herb of grace; Water hyssop Difficulty: Moderate > Lighting > Requirements: Medium Tank Placement: Backdrop > Category: Aquarium and Pond Plant > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced > in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under > Labels and > also under Archives by Year, Month) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 5:23 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root > > Any ideas? > > I have bacopa with no roots and crypts with �� roots. I have tried > a couple > things that didn�t work and a couple things that did to keep them > in the > substrate long enough for roots to develop. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48506	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/19/2010
Subject: Re: Keeping Plants in Substrate Until They Root

What I do with my bacopa is put a little rock on the end to hold it down against the gravel and eventually (it took mine a few months I think) they will root into the gravel. I let them float for awhile on the top of the water so they were nice and healthy first. How large is your gravel? The larger the rocks/gravel the harder it is for plants to root. Also if you have fish knocking them out that never helps either. I usually use small rocks around my new plants in my large tank because my severum likes to rearrange, if he can't get near the plant it seems to root well and then I can remove the rocks. I have also found that in my 55 gallon with the pea gravel that the plants take longer to root (I'm assuming it's because of the larger size of the gravel compared to the "aquarium" pretty rainbow gravel I have downstairs in my 125 gallon tank). Amber Donna Ransome wrote: > > Any ideas? > > I have bacopa with no roots and crypts with ¼” roots. I have tried a > couple > things that didn’t work and a couple things that did to keep them in the > substrate long enough for roots to develop. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48507	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake cover

Okay I did my filter cleaning yesterday and examined the intake cover to see how dirty it was. There was actually very little detritus on the screen cover, I'm thinking the snails keep it pretty clean for me though, good little workers ;) LOL. It seems to be working great, it was also very easy to rinse clean, compared to squeezing and swishing a sponge around. I highly recommend it if you don't mind the size of the intake cover compared to a smaller sponge (it's about twice the size of the sponge I was using this winter, but I don't mind since it's surrounded by plants so you can't really see it). Amber Amber Berglund wrote: > Okay so after 3 days there are still no visible debris on the new > intake cover. > I'm thinking this is going to work much better than a sponge, with a > sponge I'd already have to clean it out (usually every 3-4 days it's > horridly dirty and the filter doesn't work as well so I have to rinse > it out every few days). When I do my filter cleaning this weekend I'll > take the intake cover off and see how clean it is. > > Amber > > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny wrote: >> >> Doesn't the fine mesh screen get clogged up just like a sponge would get >> clogged up? >> >> Lenny Vasbinder >> Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com >> (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right >> side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, >> Month) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:29 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Thought I'd share a little DIY filter intake >> cover >> >> Okay so I happened to be looking at my spare carbon container for my >> magnum >> 350 canister filter and was thinking to myself, "That looks like >> it'll fit >> around the intake to my AC HOB" >> Now if you guys remember I have trouble with my mystery snails and them >> getting sucked into the intake of my filters, EVEN WITH a cover over >> them >> (such as a fine mesh). So unless I want to clean out a sponge every >> day the >> screen covers weren't working for me anymore. Well I pulled the >> intake tube >> off the AC HOB and sure enough it fit perfectly into the hole of the >> carbon >> container (which is a plastic mesh somewhat circle shape). I'm not >> sure if >> anyone else is interested in this but thought it might help if >> someone was >> looking for an alternative fry protector for their intakes on their >> filters. >> This is an example of what I'm talking about (the carbon container): >> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214011/product.web >> >> I don't get any snails stuck to the mesh anymore since it's not right >> against the intake part of the tube and is now a couple inches away >> from the >> intake tube (which lowers the suction pressure against the mesh so my >> snails >> don't get slowly sucked in while foraging for food). You'd think >> anything >> that stupid deserves to die a slow death but I really dislike finding >> them >> dead sucked into my intake on my filter ;) LOL I just can't help but >> feel >> sorry for them. >> >> Amber >> >>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48508	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Prices Then and Now

As promised a while back, I'll give you some prices from back then (January, 1934, "The Aquarium" ($0.20 cover price, now it would be $3.26) ads are the reference point.). If this does not come out well from the Yahoo end, I'll redo it and post it as a PDF file. Test Kit for pH only from K. I. Chambers, Philadelphia, PA: $2.00 $32.56 Fundulus cubensis (now Cubanichthys cubensis, Cuban killifish) Achirus fasciatus (now Trinectes maculates, Hogchoker) Palaemontese exilipes (? Described as a transparent freshwater shrimp) All three from Everglades Aquarium, Tampa, FL $3.75 $61.06 Cichlasoma meeki (now Thorichthys meeki, firemouth cichlid) Sunnyland Fish Farm, Inc., Opa-Loacka, FL (per dozen young) $10.00 $162.82 Miami Tropical Aquarium offered the following package deal for $6.00 $97.69 2 pr. Blood red moons (mature) 2 pr. Deluxe gold moons (mature) 2 pr. Black mollies (young) 2 pr. Swordtails (extra large) 1 pr. Lyretail guppies deluxe 6 neritinia snails (20 colors) 1 doz. Vallisneria (cultivated) 1 insulated German shipping can Live arrival and satisfaction guaranteed. Terms: cash with order. Excel Tropical Aquarium, Howell, MI offered aquariums in 4, 6, 8, 10, and 14 gallon sizes priced from $2.50 $40.70 To $6.00 $97.69 There were a lot of advertisements without prices. There were also items that would have required me to post the advertising copy so you would understand what they were. Of possible interest, and also for more than fishkeepers interested in the history of the hobby, was an advertisement for Edison Aquarium Heaters. The Edison was, indeed, none other than Thomas A. Edison, and the heaters came from his Edison Electrical Controls company in West Orange, NJ. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48509	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now

Thank God the government didn't regulate the pricing of fish and supplies with their standard 3% to 10% baseline rate increase each year, regardless to what is happening in the real world or the marketplace. With the free market, real prices have stayed FAR BELOW standardized inflationary rate pricing or government baseline rate/cost pricing. That $6.00 Miami Tropical Aquarium "package" and "The Aquarium" magazine looks like the best prices on things back when you, Ray and Bill were young men. :-D I'm guessing those 1934 prices did NOT include shipping/handling... right? Considering airline and transportation de-regulation didn't happen until the early 80's, those prices must have been quite high as well. Did they ship stuff "air-mail" back then? I remember "airmail" postage being an option back when I was a kid, before they had overnight shipping services like FedEx and just a letter sent by "airmail" was expensive. A regular stamp for the first ounce in 1934 (and 1938) would have cost .03 (3 cents) which adjusted for inflation, would be .48 (48 cents) so the USPS has pretty much adjusted the price of the stamp based on inflation instead of on marketplace conditions... which is probably why they're losing billions of dollars each year. I can't find year by year pricing for airmail but in 1938, the price for a one ounce airmail stamp was .65 (65 cents)... which adjusted for inflation and if still available today (they stopped airmail in the late 70's), would cost $10.31 today.. for the first ounce!!! Each additional ounce would also cost $10.31 so a two-pound package would cost $237.13!!!!! Thank God for the private sector and companies like FEDEX, UPS, etc... and the deregulation of the airline industry which has brought the pricing of airline tickets and shipping WAY DOWN and made air travel and shipping affordable for the majority of Americans. WOW... I didn't realize that ZIP Codes didn't start up until 1963. Does anyone know what ZIP stands for... without looking it up? Hint... it doesn't stand for "zippy" or fast service. LOL Refs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_postage_rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_the_United _States_of_America#Air_Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ \\Steve// (and others) - You might like this RT (Random Thoughts) mailing list, http://www.westegg.com/rt/... which is kind of like your WebWanderings but on a monthly basis... based on the author's description. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now As promised a while back, I'll give you some prices from back then (January, 1934, "The Aquarium" ($0.20 cover price, now it would be $3.26) ads are the reference point.). If this does not come out well from the Yahoo end, I'll redo it and post it as a PDF file. Test Kit for pH only from K. I. Chambers, Philadelphia, PA: $2.00 $32.56 Fundulus cubensis (now Cubanichthys cubensis, Cuban killifish) Achirus fasciatus (now Trinectes maculates, Hogchoker) Palaemontese exilipes (? Described as a transparent freshwater shrimp) All three from Everglades Aquarium, Tampa, FL $3.75 $61.06 Cichlasoma meeki (now Thorichthys meeki, firemouth cichlid) Sunnyland Fish Farm, Inc., Opa-Loacka, FL (per dozen young) $10.00 $162.82 Miami Tropical Aquarium offered the following package deal for $6.00 $97.69 2 pr. Blood red moons (mature) 2 pr. Deluxe gold moons (mature) 2 pr. Black mollies (young) 2 pr. Swordtails (extra large) 1 pr. Lyretail guppies deluxe 6 neritinia snails (20 colors) 1 doz. Vallisneria (cultivated) 1 insulated German shipping can Live arrival and satisfaction guaranteed. Terms: cash with order. Excel Tropical Aquarium, Howell, MI offered aquariums in 4, 6, 8, 10, and 14 gallon sizes priced from $2.50 $40.70 To $6.00 $97.69 There were a lot of advertisements without prices. There were also items that would have required me to post the advertising copy so you would understand what they were. Of possible interest, and also for more than fishkeepers interested in the history of the hobby, was an advertisement for Edison Aquarium Heaters. The Edison was, indeed, none other than Thomas A. Edison, and the heaters came from his Edison Electrical Controls company in West Orange, NJ. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48510	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now

Oops.. I forgot one of my reference links... http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa047.html - The CATO Institute called the USPS "The Last Dinosaur"... in 1985!!!... with this snip starting off their 1985 article... Executive Summary Mail service is becoming slower, more expensive, and less reliable. The price of a first-class stamp will go up to 22 cents this month--a 633 percent increase since 1958. First-class mail delivery is 10 percent slower than it was 15 years ago, and Postmaster General William Bolger concedes that postal delivery may have been more reliable in the 1920s.[1] The United States Postal Service (U.S.P.S.) is probably the worst managed and one of the least honest corporations in America. One innovation after another has failed as the Postal Service struggles to enter the twentieth century. The service spends tens of millions of dollars each year to deceive the public about the poor quality of mail service. From mail delivery times to productivity increases to nine-digit zip codes, the Postal Service turns out reams of misleading information. Americans are suffering a gradual extinction of mail service. In the past 15 years, the U.S.P.S. has intentionally slowed mail delivery, cut back on mail collection pickups, shortened the target zone for overnight delivery, reduced business deliveries, imposed strict requirements on the size of letters it will accept, and begun the abolition of home delivery. Congress is considering ending Saturday mail delivery. The federal government has a monopoly on the delivery of first-class mail; as a result, the Postal Service is the country's third-largest employer. Like all monopolies, the postal monopoly is abused, as the government forces people to accept increasingly worse service at ever higher prices. (END SNIP) How did y'all afford buying and shipping fish back then??? I bet y'all were wondering how I was going to get this back on topic... weren't you? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:56 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Thank God the government didn't regulate the pricing of fish and supplies with their standard 3% to 10% baseline rate increase each year, regardless to what is happening in the real world or the marketplace. With the free market, real prices have stayed FAR BELOW standardized inflationary rate pricing or government baseline rate/cost pricing. That $6.00 Miami Tropical Aquarium "package" and "The Aquarium" magazine looks like the best prices on things back when you, Ray and Bill were young men. :-D I'm guessing those 1934 prices did NOT include shipping/handling... right? Considering airline and transportation de-regulation didn't happen until the early 80's, those prices must have been quite high as well. Did they ship stuff "air-mail" back then? I remember "airmail" postage being an option back when I was a kid, before they had overnight shipping services like FedEx and just a letter sent by "airmail" was expensive. A regular stamp for the first ounce in 1934 (and 1938) would have cost .03 (3 cents) which adjusted for inflation, would be .48 (48 cents) so the USPS has pretty much adjusted the price of the stamp based on inflation instead of on marketplace conditions... which is probably why they're losing billions of dollars each year. I can't find year by year pricing for airmail but in 1938, the price for a one ounce airmail stamp was .65 (65 cents)... which adjusted for inflation and if still available today (they stopped airmail in the late 70's), would cost $10.31 today.. for the first ounce!!! Each additional ounce would also cost $10.31 so a two-pound package would cost $237.13!!!!! Thank God for the private sector and companies like FEDEX, UPS, etc... and the deregulation of the airline industry which has brought the pricing of airline tickets and shipping WAY DOWN and made air travel and shipping affordable for the majority of Americans. WOW... I didn't realize that ZIP Codes didn't start up until 1963. Does anyone know what ZIP stands for... without looking it up? Hint... it doesn't stand for "zippy" or fast service. LOL Refs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_postage_rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_the_United _States_of_America#Air_Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ \\Steve// (and others) - You might like this RT (Random Thoughts) mailing list, http://www.westegg.com/rt/... which is kind of like your WebWanderings but on a monthly basis... based on the author's description. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now As promised a while back, I'll give you some prices from back then (January, 1934, "The Aquarium" ($0.20 cover price, now it would be $3.26) ads are the reference point.). If this does not come out well from the Yahoo end, I'll redo it and post it as a PDF file. Test Kit for pH only from K. I. Chambers, Philadelphia, PA: $2.00 $32.56 Fundulus cubensis (now Cubanichthys cubensis, Cuban killifish) Achirus fasciatus (now Trinectes maculates, Hogchoker) Palaemontese exilipes (? Described as a transparent freshwater shrimp) All three from Everglades Aquarium, Tampa, FL $3.75 $61.06 Cichlasoma meeki (now Thorichthys meeki, firemouth cichlid) Sunnyland Fish Farm, Inc., Opa-Loacka, FL (per dozen young) $10.00 $162.82 Miami Tropical Aquarium offered the following package deal for $6.00 $97.69 2 pr. Blood red moons (mature) 2 pr. Deluxe gold moons (mature) 2 pr. Black mollies (young) 2 pr. Swordtails (extra large) 1 pr. Lyretail guppies deluxe 6 neritinia snails (20 colors) 1 doz. Vallisneria (cultivated) 1 insulated German shipping can Live arrival and satisfaction guaranteed. Terms: cash with order. Excel Tropical Aquarium, Howell, MI offered aquariums in 4, 6, 8, 10, and 14 gallon sizes priced from $2.50 $40.70 To $6.00 $97.69 There were a lot of advertisements without prices. There were also items that would have required me to post the advertising copy so you would understand what they were. Of possible interest, and also for more than fishkeepers interested in the history of the hobby, was an advertisement for Edison Aquarium Heaters. The Edison was, indeed, none other than Thomas A. Edison, and the heaters came from his Edison Electrical Controls company in West Orange, NJ. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48511	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now

I did not get your first reply (thanks Yahoo!--yet another message gone astray), but none of the items mentioned in my post were marked as postage included. Some other items, that I did not include, did have that mentioned, though. However, by the way most were advertised, I do suspect postage was included. Fish were being shipped by air from South America in that time period, I believe, but within the country, Railway Express was used extensively for shipping long distances. The can mentioned by Miami Tropical Aquarium for its collection probably was shipped by railroad, which had a wider distribution and more frequent schedule than railroads have today. Cities used to have zones defined by the post office. You would see an address like New York 6, New York, with the 6 being the zone number indicating the area of NYC the piece was going. Someone decided it would be a wonderful thing is all post offices had a number to help route mail, thinking it would make the whole system more efficient. The country was divided up into sections and each post office was assigned a 5 digit number, with extras reserve for future expansion. An interesting note is that you may see that this was done in sections with the post offices being assigned alphabetically, usually, as I have noticed, by county within a state. I believe this was known as the Zone Improvement Program, or, with the government's fondness for acronyms, ZIP. Don't ask me why I remember this crap <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Oops.. I forgot one of my reference links... http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa047.html - The CATO Institute called the USPS "The Last Dinosaur"... in 1985!!!... with this snip starting off their 1985 article... Executive Summary Mail service is becoming slower, more expensive, and less reliable. The price of a first-class stamp will go up to 22 cents this month--a 633 percent increase since 1958. First-class mail delivery is 10 percent slower than it was 15 years ago, and Postmaster General William Bolger concedes that postal delivery may have been more reliable in the 1920s.[1] The United States Postal Service (U.S.P.S.) is probably the worst managed and one of the least honest corporations in America. One innovation after another has failed as the Postal Service struggles to enter the twentieth century. The service spends tens of millions of dollars each year to deceive the public about the poor quality of mail service. From mail delivery times to productivity increases to nine-digit zip codes, the Postal Service turns out reams of misleading information. Americans are suffering a gradual extinction of mail service. In the past 15 years, the U.S.P.S. has intentionally slowed mail delivery, cut back on mail collection pickups, shortened the target zone for overnight delivery, reduced business deliveries, imposed strict requirements on the size of letters it will accept, and begun the abolition of home delivery. Congress is considering ending Saturday mail delivery. The federal government has a monopoly on the delivery of first-class mail; as a result, the Postal Service is the country's third-largest employer. Like all monopolies, the postal monopoly is abused, as the government forces people to accept increasingly worse service at ever higher prices. (END SNIP) How did y'all afford buying and shipping fish back then??? I bet y'all were wondering how I was going to get this back on topic... weren't you? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:56 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Thank God the government didn't regulate the pricing of fish and supplies with their standard 3% to 10% baseline rate increase each year, regardless to what is happening in the real world or the marketplace. With the free market, real prices have stayed FAR BELOW standardized inflationary rate pricing or government baseline rate/cost pricing. That $6.00 Miami Tropical Aquarium "package" and "The Aquarium" magazine looks like the best prices on things back when you, Ray and Bill were young men. :-D I'm guessing those 1934 prices did NOT include shipping/handling... right? Considering airline and transportation de-regulation didn't happen until the early 80's, those prices must have been quite high as well. Did they ship stuff "air-mail" back then? I remember "airmail" postage being an option back when I was a kid, before they had overnight shipping services like FedEx and just a letter sent by "airmail" was expensive. A regular stamp for the first ounce in 1934 (and 1938) would have cost .03 (3 cents) which adjusted for inflation, would be .48 (48 cents) so the USPS has pretty much adjusted the price of the stamp based on inflation instead of on marketplace conditions... which is probably why they're losing billions of dollars each year. I can't find year by year pricing for airmail but in 1938, the price for a one ounce airmail stamp was .65 (65 cents)... which adjusted for inflation and if still available today (they stopped airmail in the late 70's), would cost $10.31 today.. for the first ounce!!! Each additional ounce would also cost $10.31 so a two-pound package would cost $237.13!!!!! Thank God for the private sector and companies like FEDEX, UPS, etc... and the deregulation of the airline industry which has brought the pricing of airline tickets and shipping WAY DOWN and made air travel and shipping affordable for the majority of Americans. WOW... I didn't realize that ZIP Codes didn't start up until 1963. Does anyone know what ZIP stands for... without looking it up? Hint... it doesn't stand for "zippy" or fast service. LOL Refs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_postage_rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_the_United _States_of_America#Air_Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ \\Steve// (and others) - You might like this RT (Random Thoughts) mailing list, http://www.westegg.com/rt/... which is kind of like your WebWanderings but on a monthly basis... based on the author's description. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now As promised a while back, I'll give you some prices from back then (January, 1934, "The Aquarium" ($0.20 cover price, now it would be $3.26) ads are the reference point.). If this does not come out well from the Yahoo end, I'll redo it and post it as a PDF file. Test Kit for pH only from K. I. Chambers, Philadelphia, PA: $2.00 $32.56 Fundulus cubensis (now Cubanichthys cubensis, Cuban killifish) Achirus fasciatus (now Trinectes maculates, Hogchoker) Palaemontese exilipes (? Described as a transparent freshwater shrimp) All three from Everglades Aquarium, Tampa, FL $3.75 $61.06 Cichlasoma meeki (now Thorichthys meeki, firemouth cichlid) Sunnyland Fish Farm, Inc., Opa-Loacka, FL (per dozen young) $10.00 $162.82 Miami Tropical Aquarium offered the following package deal for $6.00 $97.69 2 pr. Blood red moons (mature) 2 pr. Deluxe gold moons (mature) 2 pr. Black mollies (young) 2 pr. Swordtails (extra large) 1 pr. Lyretail guppies deluxe 6 neritinia snails (20 colors) 1 doz. Vallisneria (cultivated) 1 insulated German shipping can Live arrival and satisfaction guaranteed. Terms: cash with order. Excel Tropical Aquarium, Howell, MI offered aquariums in 4, 6, 8, 10, and 14 gallon sizes priced from $2.50 $40.70 To $6.00 $97.69 There were a lot of advertisements without prices. There were also items that would have required me to post the advertising copy so you would understand what they were. Of possible interest, and also for more than fishkeepers interested in the history of the hobby, was an advertisement for Edison Aquarium Heaters. The Edison was, indeed, none other than Thomas A. Edison, and the heaters came from his Edison Electrical Controls company in West Orange, NJ. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48512	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/20/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now

How long did it take to ship something like fish in one of those "insulated German shipping cans" from Miami up to N.Y., NY? Do you have a link to a picture of one of these? I did some Googling and couldn't find any but one of the few hits I did get was to an AquArticle by Bob Krampetz... no relationship to the Japanese version of the Klampet's family of The Beverly Hillbillies fame. LOL I may have also found my other questions answered in this article as well. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/literature/Krampetz_50_years.html "50 Years Is A Long Time" (SNIP) "...The other style has disappeared, I haven't seen them in years. They were about 24" in diameter, sides about 8" high then it angled in for another 4" to an 8" opening. A metal lid fit snugly into the top and they looked much like the antique milk can lids. They were known as "German shipping containers". The idea was water would slosh about more, "oxygenating" the water, and more fish could be put into those low wide cans. The German shipping can was the preferred shipping container for Florida raised fish. Bangkok? Thailand? Southeast Asia? No way! Those exotic locals were only in National Geographic, which us pubescent boys read to get a look at naked breasts! Florida raised fish shipped to New York had a high mortality. It wasn't unusual for any store getting a delivery and finding no fish alive. Heavy metal cans, no water chemicals, and railroad service taking several days to make it up the coast ensured that local New York fish breeders always had the market...." (END SNIP) You should compile all of this for the AHHS group also! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now I did not get your first reply (thanks Yahoo!--yet another message gone astray), but none of the items mentioned in my post were marked as postage included. Some other items, that I did not include, did have that mentioned, though. However, by the way most were advertised, I do suspect postage was included. Fish were being shipped by air from South America in that time period, I believe, but within the country, Railway Express was used extensively for shipping long distances. The can mentioned by Miami Tropical Aquarium for its collection probably was shipped by railroad, which had a wider distribution and more frequent schedule than railroads have today. Cities used to have zones defined by the post office. You would see an address like New York 6, New York, with the 6 being the zone number indicating the area of NYC the piece was going. Someone decided it would be a wonderful thing is all post offices had a number to help route mail, thinking it would make the whole system more efficient. The country was divided up into sections and each post office was assigned a 5 digit number, with extras reserve for future expansion. An interesting note is that you may see that this was done in sections with the post offices being assigned alphabetically, usually, as I have noticed, by county within a state. I believe this was known as the Zone Improvement Program, or, with the government's fondness for acronyms, ZIP. Don't ask me why I remember this crap <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Oops.. I forgot one of my reference links... http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa047.html - The CATO Institute called the USPS "The Last Dinosaur"... in 1985!!!... with this snip starting off their 1985 article... Executive Summary Mail service is becoming slower, more expensive, and less reliable. The price of a first-class stamp will go up to 22 cents this month--a 633 percent increase since 1958. First-class mail delivery is 10 percent slower than it was 15 years ago, and Postmaster General William Bolger concedes that postal delivery may have been more reliable in the 1920s.[1] The United States Postal Service (U.S.P.S.) is probably the worst managed and one of the least honest corporations in America. One innovation after another has failed as the Postal Service struggles to enter the twentieth century. The service spends tens of millions of dollars each year to deceive the public about the poor quality of mail service. From mail delivery times to productivity increases to nine-digit zip codes, the Postal Service turns out reams of misleading information. Americans are suffering a gradual extinction of mail service. In the past 15 years, the U.S.P.S. has intentionally slowed mail delivery, cut back on mail collection pickups, shortened the target zone for overnight delivery, reduced business deliveries, imposed strict requirements on the size of letters it will accept, and begun the abolition of home delivery. Congress is considering ending Saturday mail delivery. The federal government has a monopoly on the delivery of first-class mail; as a result, the Postal Service is the country's third-largest employer. Like all monopolies, the postal monopoly is abused, as the government forces people to accept increasingly worse service at ever higher prices. (END SNIP) How did y'all afford buying and shipping fish back then??? I bet y'all were wondering how I was going to get this back on topic... weren't you? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:56 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Thank God the government didn't regulate the pricing of fish and supplies with their standard 3% to 10% baseline rate increase each year, regardless to what is happening in the real world or the marketplace. With the free market, real prices have stayed FAR BELOW standardized inflationary rate pricing or government baseline rate/cost pricing. That $6.00 Miami Tropical Aquarium "package" and "The Aquarium" magazine looks like the best prices on things back when you, Ray and Bill were young men. :-D I'm guessing those 1934 prices did NOT include shipping/handling... right? Considering airline and transportation de-regulation didn't happen until the early 80's, those prices must have been quite high as well. Did they ship stuff "air-mail" back then? I remember "airmail" postage being an option back when I was a kid, before they had overnight shipping services like FedEx and just a letter sent by "airmail" was expensive. A regular stamp for the first ounce in 1934 (and 1938) would have cost .03 (3 cents) which adjusted for inflation, would be .48 (48 cents) so the USPS has pretty much adjusted the price of the stamp based on inflation instead of on marketplace conditions... which is probably why they're losing billions of dollars each year. I can't find year by year pricing for airmail but in 1938, the price for a one ounce airmail stamp was .65 (65 cents)... which adjusted for inflation and if still available today (they stopped airmail in the late 70's), would cost $10.31 today.. for the first ounce!!! Each additional ounce would also cost $10.31 so a two-pound package would cost $237.13!!!!! Thank God for the private sector and companies like FEDEX, UPS, etc... and the deregulation of the airline industry which has brought the pricing of airline tickets and shipping WAY DOWN and made air travel and shipping affordable for the majority of Americans. WOW... I didn't realize that ZIP Codes didn't start up until 1963. Does anyone know what ZIP stands for... without looking it up? Hint... it doesn't stand for "zippy" or fast service. LOL Refs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_postage_rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_the_United _States_of_America#Air_Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ \\Steve// (and others) - You might like this RT (Random Thoughts) mailing list, http://www.westegg.com/rt/... which is kind of like your WebWanderings but on a monthly basis... based on the author's description. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now As promised a while back, I'll give you some prices from back then (January, 1934, "The Aquarium" ($0.20 cover price, now it would be $3.26) ads are the reference point.). If this does not come out well from the Yahoo end, I'll redo it and post it as a PDF file. Test Kit for pH only from K. I. Chambers, Philadelphia, PA: $2.00 $32.56 Fundulus cubensis (now Cubanichthys cubensis, Cuban killifish) Achirus fasciatus (now Trinectes maculates, Hogchoker) Palaemontese exilipes (? Described as a transparent freshwater shrimp) All three from Everglades Aquarium, Tampa, FL $3.75 $61.06 Cichlasoma meeki (now Thorichthys meeki, firemouth cichlid) Sunnyland Fish Farm, Inc., Opa-Loacka, FL (per dozen young) $10.00 $162.82 Miami Tropical Aquarium offered the following package deal for $6.00 $97.69 2 pr. Blood red moons (mature) 2 pr. Deluxe gold moons (mature) 2 pr. Black mollies (young) 2 pr. Swordtails (extra large) 1 pr. Lyretail guppies deluxe 6 neritinia snails (20 colors) 1 doz. Vallisneria (cultivated) 1 insulated German shipping can Live arrival and satisfaction guaranteed. Terms: cash with order. Excel Tropical Aquarium, Howell, MI offered aquariums in 4, 6, 8, 10, and 14 gallon sizes priced from $2.50 $40.70 To $6.00 $97.69 There were a lot of advertisements without prices. There were also items that would have required me to post the advertising copy so you would understand what they were. Of possible interest, and also for more than fishkeepers interested in the history of the hobby, was an advertisement for Edison Aquarium Heaters. The Edison was, indeed, none other than Thomas A. Edison, and the heaters came from his Edison Electrical Controls company in West Orange, NJ. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48513	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now

Lenny, This link is only for a few here, since they are in a member only section of a Yahoo! list forum, but they do show fish cans. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety/photos/album/19 57804009/pic/1057914925/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20 &dir=asc http://tinyurl.com/26qtxe7 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now How long did it take to ship something like fish in one of those "insulated German shipping cans" from Miami up to N.Y., NY? Do you have a link to a picture of one of these? I did some Googling and couldn't find any but one of the few hits I did get was to an AquArticle by Bob Krampetz... no relationship to the Japanese version of the Klampet's family of The Beverly Hillbillies fame. LOL I may have also found my other questions answered in this article as well. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/literature/Krampetz_50_years.html "50 Years Is A Long Time" (SNIP) "...The other style has disappeared, I haven't seen them in years. They were about 24" in diameter, sides about 8" high then it angled in for another 4" to an 8" opening. A metal lid fit snugly into the top and they looked much like the antique milk can lids. They were known as "German shipping containers". The idea was water would slosh about more, "oxygenating" the water, and more fish could be put into those low wide cans. The German shipping can was the preferred shipping container for Florida raised fish. Bangkok? Thailand? Southeast Asia? No way! Those exotic locals were only in National Geographic, which us pubescent boys read to get a look at naked breasts! Florida raised fish shipped to New York had a high mortality. It wasn't unusual for any store getting a delivery and finding no fish alive. Heavy metal cans, no water chemicals, and railroad service taking several days to make it up the coast ensured that local New York fish breeders always had the market...." (END SNIP) You should compile all of this for the AHHS group also! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now I did not get your first reply (thanks Yahoo!--yet another message gone astray), but none of the items mentioned in my post were marked as postage included. Some other items, that I did not include, did have that mentioned, though. However, by the way most were advertised, I do suspect postage was included. Fish were being shipped by air from South America in that time period, I believe, but within the country, Railway Express was used extensively for shipping long distances. The can mentioned by Miami Tropical Aquarium for its collection probably was shipped by railroad, which had a wider distribution and more frequent schedule than railroads have today. Cities used to have zones defined by the post office. You would see an address like New York 6, New York, with the 6 being the zone number indicating the area of NYC the piece was going. Someone decided it would be a wonderful thing is all post offices had a number to help route mail, thinking it would make the whole system more efficient. The country was divided up into sections and each post office was assigned a 5 digit number, with extras reserve for future expansion. An interesting note is that you may see that this was done in sections with the post offices being assigned alphabetically, usually, as I have noticed, by county within a state. I believe this was known as the Zone Improvement Program, or, with the government's fondness for acronyms, ZIP. Don't ask me why I remember this crap <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Oops.. I forgot one of my reference links... http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa047.html - The CATO Institute called the USPS "The Last Dinosaur"... in 1985!!!... with this snip starting off their 1985 article... Executive Summary Mail service is becoming slower, more expensive, and less reliable. The price of a first-class stamp will go up to 22 cents this month--a 633 percent increase since 1958. First-class mail delivery is 10 percent slower than it was 15 years ago, and Postmaster General William Bolger concedes that postal delivery may have been more reliable in the 1920s.[1] The United States Postal Service (U.S.P.S.) is probably the worst managed and one of the least honest corporations in America. One innovation after another has failed as the Postal Service struggles to enter the twentieth century. The service spends tens of millions of dollars each year to deceive the public about the poor quality of mail service. From mail delivery times to productivity increases to nine-digit zip codes, the Postal Service turns out reams of misleading information. Americans are suffering a gradual extinction of mail service. In the past 15 years, the U.S.P.S. has intentionally slowed mail delivery, cut back on mail collection pickups, shortened the target zone for overnight delivery, reduced business deliveries, imposed strict requirements on the size of letters it will accept, and begun the abolition of home delivery. Congress is considering ending Saturday mail delivery. The federal government has a monopoly on the delivery of first-class mail; as a result, the Postal Service is the country's third-largest employer. Like all monopolies, the postal monopoly is abused, as the government forces people to accept increasingly worse service at ever higher prices. (END SNIP) How did y'all afford buying and shipping fish back then??? I bet y'all were wondering how I was going to get this back on topic... weren't you? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:56 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Thank God the government didn't regulate the pricing of fish and supplies with their standard 3% to 10% baseline rate increase each year, regardless to what is happening in the real world or the marketplace. With the free market, real prices have stayed FAR BELOW standardized inflationary rate pricing or government baseline rate/cost pricing. That $6.00 Miami Tropical Aquarium "package" and "The Aquarium" magazine looks like the best prices on things back when you, Ray and Bill were young men. :-D I'm guessing those 1934 prices did NOT include shipping/handling... right? Considering airline and transportation de-regulation didn't happen until the early 80's, those prices must have been quite high as well. Did they ship stuff "air-mail" back then? I remember "airmail" postage being an option back when I was a kid, before they had overnight shipping services like FedEx and just a letter sent by "airmail" was expensive. A regular stamp for the first ounce in 1934 (and 1938) would have cost .03 (3 cents) which adjusted for inflation, would be .48 (48 cents) so the USPS has pretty much adjusted the price of the stamp based on inflation instead of on marketplace conditions... which is probably why they're losing billions of dollars each year. I can't find year by year pricing for airmail but in 1938, the price for a one ounce airmail stamp was .65 (65 cents)... which adjusted for inflation and if still available today (they stopped airmail in the late 70's), would cost $10.31 today.. for the first ounce!!! Each additional ounce would also cost $10.31 so a two-pound package would cost $237.13!!!!! Thank God for the private sector and companies like FEDEX, UPS, etc... and the deregulation of the airline industry which has brought the pricing of airline tickets and shipping WAY DOWN and made air travel and shipping affordable for the majority of Americans. WOW... I didn't realize that ZIP Codes didn't start up until 1963. Does anyone know what ZIP stands for... without looking it up? Hint... it doesn't stand for "zippy" or fast service. LOL Refs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_postage_rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_the_United _States_of_America#Air_Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ \\Steve// (and others) - You might like this RT (Random Thoughts) mailing list, http://www.westegg.com/rt/... which is kind of like your WebWanderings but on a monthly basis... based on the author's description. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now As promised a while back, I'll give you some prices from back then (January, 1934, "The Aquarium" ($0.20 cover price, now it would be $3.26) ads are the reference point.). If this does not come out well from the Yahoo end, I'll redo it and post it as a PDF file. Test Kit for pH only from K. I. Chambers, Philadelphia, PA: $2.00 $32.56 Fundulus cubensis (now Cubanichthys cubensis, Cuban killifish) Achirus fasciatus (now Trinectes maculates, Hogchoker) Palaemontese exilipes (? Described as a transparent freshwater shrimp) All three from Everglades Aquarium, Tampa, FL $3.75 $61.06 Cichlasoma meeki (now Thorichthys meeki, firemouth cichlid) Sunnyland Fish Farm, Inc., Opa-Loacka, FL (per dozen young) $10.00 $162.82 Miami Tropical Aquarium offered the following package deal for $6.00 $97.69 2 pr. Blood red moons (mature) 2 pr. Deluxe gold moons (mature) 2 pr. Black mollies (young) 2 pr. Swordtails (extra large) 1 pr. Lyretail guppies deluxe 6 neritinia snails (20 colors) 1 doz. Vallisneria (cultivated) 1 insulated German shipping can Live arrival and satisfaction guaranteed. Terms: cash with order. Excel Tropical Aquarium, Howell, MI offered aquariums in 4, 6, 8, 10, and 14 gallon sizes priced from $2.50 $40.70 To $6.00 $97.69 There were a lot of advertisements without prices. There were also items that would have required me to post the advertising copy so you would understand what they were. Of possible interest, and also for more than fishkeepers interested in the history of the hobby, was an advertisement for Edison Aquarium Heaters. The Edison was, indeed, none other than Thomas A. Edison, and the heaters came from his Edison Electrical Controls company in West Orange, NJ. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48514	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now

Lenny, Sent the earlier message a bit too soon, I meant to also include this link to "fish cars" used to ship fish by railroad http://www.arkansasstripers.com/fish-cars-train.htm. Be sure to follow the link to the D. C. Booth site as well. \\\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now How long did it take to ship something like fish in one of those "insulated German shipping cans" from Miami up to N.Y., NY? Do you have a link to a picture of one of these? I did some Googling and couldn't find any but one of the few hits I did get was to an AquArticle by Bob Krampetz... no relationship to the Japanese version of the Klampet's family of The Beverly Hillbillies fame. LOL I may have also found my other questions answered in this article as well. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/literature/Krampetz_50_years.html "50 Years Is A Long Time" (SNIP) "...The other style has disappeared, I haven't seen them in years. They were about 24" in diameter, sides about 8" high then it angled in for another 4" to an 8" opening. A metal lid fit snugly into the top and they looked much like the antique milk can lids. They were known as "German shipping containers". The idea was water would slosh about more, "oxygenating" the water, and more fish could be put into those low wide cans. The German shipping can was the preferred shipping container for Florida raised fish. Bangkok? Thailand? Southeast Asia? No way! Those exotic locals were only in National Geographic, which us pubescent boys read to get a look at naked breasts! Florida raised fish shipped to New York had a high mortality. It wasn't unusual for any store getting a delivery and finding no fish alive. Heavy metal cans, no water chemicals, and railroad service taking several days to make it up the coast ensured that local New York fish breeders always had the market...." (END SNIP) You should compile all of this for the AHHS group also! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now I did not get your first reply (thanks Yahoo!--yet another message gone astray), but none of the items mentioned in my post were marked as postage included. Some other items, that I did not include, did have that mentioned, though. However, by the way most were advertised, I do suspect postage was included. Fish were being shipped by air from South America in that time period, I believe, but within the country, Railway Express was used extensively for shipping long distances. The can mentioned by Miami Tropical Aquarium for its collection probably was shipped by railroad, which had a wider distribution and more frequent schedule than railroads have today. Cities used to have zones defined by the post office. You would see an address like New York 6, New York, with the 6 being the zone number indicating the area of NYC the piece was going. Someone decided it would be a wonderful thing is all post offices had a number to help route mail, thinking it would make the whole system more efficient. The country was divided up into sections and each post office was assigned a 5 digit number, with extras reserve for future expansion. An interesting note is that you may see that this was done in sections with the post offices being assigned alphabetically, usually, as I have noticed, by county within a state. I believe this was known as the Zone Improvement Program, or, with the government's fondness for acronyms, ZIP. Don't ask me why I remember this crap <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Oops.. I forgot one of my reference links... http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa047.html - The CATO Institute called the USPS "The Last Dinosaur"... in 1985!!!... with this snip starting off their 1985 article... Executive Summary Mail service is becoming slower, more expensive, and less reliable. The price of a first-class stamp will go up to 22 cents this month--a 633 percent increase since 1958. First-class mail delivery is 10 percent slower than it was 15 years ago, and Postmaster General William Bolger concedes that postal delivery may have been more reliable in the 1920s.[1] The United States Postal Service (U.S.P.S.) is probably the worst managed and one of the least honest corporations in America. One innovation after another has failed as the Postal Service struggles to enter the twentieth century. The service spends tens of millions of dollars each year to deceive the public about the poor quality of mail service. From mail delivery times to productivity increases to nine-digit zip codes, the Postal Service turns out reams of misleading information. Americans are suffering a gradual extinction of mail service. In the past 15 years, the U.S.P.S. has intentionally slowed mail delivery, cut back on mail collection pickups, shortened the target zone for overnight delivery, reduced business deliveries, imposed strict requirements on the size of letters it will accept, and begun the abolition of home delivery. Congress is considering ending Saturday mail delivery. The federal government has a monopoly on the delivery of first-class mail; as a result, the Postal Service is the country's third-largest employer. Like all monopolies, the postal monopoly is abused, as the government forces people to accept increasingly worse service at ever higher prices. (END SNIP) How did y'all afford buying and shipping fish back then??? I bet y'all were wondering how I was going to get this back on topic... weren't you? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:56 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Thank God the government didn't regulate the pricing of fish and supplies with their standard 3% to 10% baseline rate increase each year, regardless to what is happening in the real world or the marketplace. With the free market, real prices have stayed FAR BELOW standardized inflationary rate pricing or government baseline rate/cost pricing. That $6.00 Miami Tropical Aquarium "package" and "The Aquarium" magazine looks like the best prices on things back when you, Ray and Bill were young men. :-D I'm guessing those 1934 prices did NOT include shipping/handling... right? Considering airline and transportation de-regulation didn't happen until the early 80's, those prices must have been quite high as well. Did they ship stuff "air-mail" back then? I remember "airmail" postage being an option back when I was a kid, before they had overnight shipping services like FedEx and just a letter sent by "airmail" was expensive. A regular stamp for the first ounce in 1934 (and 1938) would have cost .03 (3 cents) which adjusted for inflation, would be .48 (48 cents) so the USPS has pretty much adjusted the price of the stamp based on inflation instead of on marketplace conditions... which is probably why they're losing billions of dollars each year. I can't find year by year pricing for airmail but in 1938, the price for a one ounce airmail stamp was .65 (65 cents)... which adjusted for inflation and if still available today (they stopped airmail in the late 70's), would cost $10.31 today.. for the first ounce!!! Each additional ounce would also cost $10.31 so a two-pound package would cost $237.13!!!!! Thank God for the private sector and companies like FEDEX, UPS, etc... and the deregulation of the airline industry which has brought the pricing of airline tickets and shipping WAY DOWN and made air travel and shipping affordable for the majority of Americans. WOW... I didn't realize that ZIP Codes didn't start up until 1963. Does anyone know what ZIP stands for... without looking it up? Hint... it doesn't stand for "zippy" or fast service. LOL Refs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_postage_rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_the_United _States_of_America#Air_Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ \\Steve// (and others) - You might like this RT (Random Thoughts) mailing list, http://www.westegg.com/rt/... which is kind of like your WebWanderings but on a monthly basis... based on the author's description. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now As promised a while back, I'll give you some prices from back then (January, 1934, "The Aquarium" ($0.20 cover price, now it would be $3.26) ads are the reference point.). If this does not come out well from the Yahoo end, I'll redo it and post it as a PDF file. Test Kit for pH only from K. I. Chambers, Philadelphia, PA: $2.00 $32.56 Fundulus cubensis (now Cubanichthys cubensis, Cuban killifish) Achirus fasciatus (now Trinectes maculates, Hogchoker) Palaemontese exilipes (? Described as a transparent freshwater shrimp) All three from Everglades Aquarium, Tampa, FL $3.75 $61.06 Cichlasoma meeki (now Thorichthys meeki, firemouth cichlid) Sunnyland Fish Farm, Inc., Opa-Loacka, FL (per dozen young) $10.00 $162.82 Miami Tropical Aquarium offered the following package deal for $6.00 $97.69 2 pr. Blood red moons (mature) 2 pr. Deluxe gold moons (mature) 2 pr. Black mollies (young) 2 pr. Swordtails (extra large) 1 pr. Lyretail guppies deluxe 6 neritinia snails (20 colors) 1 doz. Vallisneria (cultivated) 1 insulated German shipping can Live arrival and satisfaction guaranteed. Terms: cash with order. Excel Tropical Aquarium, Howell, MI offered aquariums in 4, 6, 8, 10, and 14 gallon sizes priced from $2.50 $40.70 To $6.00 $97.69 There were a lot of advertisements without prices. There were also items that would have required me to post the advertising copy so you would understand what they were. Of possible interest, and also for more than fishkeepers interested in the history of the hobby, was an advertisement for Edison Aquarium Heaters. The Edison was, indeed, none other than Thomas A. Edison, and the heaters came from his Edison Electrical Controls company in West Orange, NJ. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48515	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now

Interesting looking cans. How did folks return the cans to the sender... or were these cans only sent to retailers who then returned the cans with/for their next order? In that same photo album, scrolling through the pictures, there's a pic showing a kid carrying one of the fish cans on his head and other pictures showing the fish cans in various stages of being used. One, titled "Hugo Schnelle and Fred Cochu" shows one of the cans with some kind of cloth sack cinched around the short neck of the can. The cans look like they just have lids that push down like on tin cookie cans... is that how they were held in place or were their clamps? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 5:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Lenny, This link is only for a few here, since they are in a member only section of a Yahoo! list forum, but they do show fish cans. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety/photos/album/19 57804009/pic/1057914925/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20 &dir=asc http://tinyurl.com/26qtxe7 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now How long did it take to ship something like fish in one of those "insulated German shipping cans" from Miami up to N.Y., NY? Do you have a link to a picture of one of these? I did some Googling and couldn't find any but one of the few hits I did get was to an AquArticle by Bob Krampetz... no relationship to the Japanese version of the Klampet's family of The Beverly Hillbillies fame. LOL I may have also found my other questions answered in this article as well. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/literature/Krampetz_50_years.html "50 Years Is A Long Time" (SNIP) "...The other style has disappeared, I haven't seen them in years. They were about 24" in diameter, sides about 8" high then it angled in for another 4" to an 8" opening. A metal lid fit snugly into the top and they looked much like the antique milk can lids. They were known as "German shipping containers". The idea was water would slosh about more, "oxygenating" the water, and more fish could be put into those low wide cans. The German shipping can was the preferred shipping container for Florida raised fish. Bangkok? Thailand? Southeast Asia? No way! Those exotic locals were only in National Geographic, which us pubescent boys read to get a look at naked breasts! Florida raised fish shipped to New York had a high mortality. It wasn't unusual for any store getting a delivery and finding no fish alive. Heavy metal cans, no water chemicals, and railroad service taking several days to make it up the coast ensured that local New York fish breeders always had the market...." (END SNIP) You should compile all of this for the AHHS group also! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now I did not get your first reply (thanks Yahoo!--yet another message gone astray), but none of the items mentioned in my post were marked as postage included. Some other items, that I did not include, did have that mentioned, though. However, by the way most were advertised, I do suspect postage was included. Fish were being shipped by air from South America in that time period, I believe, but within the country, Railway Express was used extensively for shipping long distances. The can mentioned by Miami Tropical Aquarium for its collection probably was shipped by railroad, which had a wider distribution and more frequent schedule than railroads have today. Cities used to have zones defined by the post office. You would see an address like New York 6, New York, with the 6 being the zone number indicating the area of NYC the piece was going. Someone decided it would be a wonderful thing is all post offices had a number to help route mail, thinking it would make the whole system more efficient. The country was divided up into sections and each post office was assigned a 5 digit number, with extras reserve for future expansion. An interesting note is that you may see that this was done in sections with the post offices being assigned alphabetically, usually, as I have noticed, by county within a state. I believe this was known as the Zone Improvement Program, or, with the government's fondness for acronyms, ZIP. Don't ask me why I remember this crap <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Oops.. I forgot one of my reference links... http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa047.html - The CATO Institute called the USPS "The Last Dinosaur"... in 1985!!!... with this snip starting off their 1985 article... Executive Summary Mail service is becoming slower, more expensive, and less reliable. The price of a first-class stamp will go up to 22 cents this month--a 633 percent increase since 1958. First-class mail delivery is 10 percent slower than it was 15 years ago, and Postmaster General William Bolger concedes that postal delivery may have been more reliable in the 1920s.[1] The United States Postal Service (U.S.P.S.) is probably the worst managed and one of the least honest corporations in America. One innovation after another has failed as the Postal Service struggles to enter the twentieth century. The service spends tens of millions of dollars each year to deceive the public about the poor quality of mail service. From mail delivery times to productivity increases to nine-digit zip codes, the Postal Service turns out reams of misleading information. Americans are suffering a gradual extinction of mail service. In the past 15 years, the U.S.P.S. has intentionally slowed mail delivery, cut back on mail collection pickups, shortened the target zone for overnight delivery, reduced business deliveries, imposed strict requirements on the size of letters it will accept, and begun the abolition of home delivery. Congress is considering ending Saturday mail delivery. The federal government has a monopoly on the delivery of first-class mail; as a result, the Postal Service is the country's third-largest employer. Like all monopolies, the postal monopoly is abused, as the government forces people to accept increasingly worse service at ever higher prices. (END SNIP) How did y'all afford buying and shipping fish back then??? I bet y'all were wondering how I was going to get this back on topic... weren't you? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:56 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Thank God the government didn't regulate the pricing of fish and supplies with their standard 3% to 10% baseline rate increase each year, regardless to what is happening in the real world or the marketplace. With the free market, real prices have stayed FAR BELOW standardized inflationary rate pricing or government baseline rate/cost pricing. That $6.00 Miami Tropical Aquarium "package" and "The Aquarium" magazine looks like the best prices on things back when you, Ray and Bill were young men. :-D I'm guessing those 1934 prices did NOT include shipping/handling... right? Considering airline and transportation de-regulation didn't happen until the early 80's, those prices must have been quite high as well. Did they ship stuff "air-mail" back then? I remember "airmail" postage being an option back when I was a kid, before they had overnight shipping services like FedEx and just a letter sent by "airmail" was expensive. A regular stamp for the first ounce in 1934 (and 1938) would have cost .03 (3 cents) which adjusted for inflation, would be .48 (48 cents) so the USPS has pretty much adjusted the price of the stamp based on inflation instead of on marketplace conditions... which is probably why they're losing billions of dollars each year. I can't find year by year pricing for airmail but in 1938, the price for a one ounce airmail stamp was .65 (65 cents)... which adjusted for inflation and if still available today (they stopped airmail in the late 70's), would cost $10.31 today.. for the first ounce!!! Each additional ounce would also cost $10.31 so a two-pound package would cost $237.13!!!!! Thank God for the private sector and companies like FEDEX, UPS, etc... and the deregulation of the airline industry which has brought the pricing of airline tickets and shipping WAY DOWN and made air travel and shipping affordable for the majority of Americans. WOW... I didn't realize that ZIP Codes didn't start up until 1963. Does anyone know what ZIP stands for... without looking it up? Hint... it doesn't stand for "zippy" or fast service. LOL Refs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_postage_rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_the_United _States_of_America#Air_Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ \\Steve// (and others) - You might like this RT (Random Thoughts) mailing list, http://www.westegg.com/rt/... which is kind of like your WebWanderings but on a monthly basis... based on the author's description. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now As promised a while back, I'll give you some prices from back then (January, 1934, "The Aquarium" ($0.20 cover price, now it would be $3.26) ads are the reference point.). If this does not come out well from the Yahoo end, I'll redo it and post it as a PDF file. Test Kit for pH only from K. I. Chambers, Philadelphia, PA: $2.00 $32.56 Fundulus cubensis (now Cubanichthys cubensis, Cuban killifish) Achirus fasciatus (now Trinectes maculates, Hogchoker) Palaemontese exilipes (? Described as a transparent freshwater shrimp) All three from Everglades Aquarium, Tampa, FL $3.75 $61.06 Cichlasoma meeki (now Thorichthys meeki, firemouth cichlid) Sunnyland Fish Farm, Inc., Opa-Loacka, FL (per dozen young) $10.00 $162.82 Miami Tropical Aquarium offered the following package deal for $6.00 $97.69 2 pr. Blood red moons (mature) 2 pr. Deluxe gold moons (mature) 2 pr. Black mollies (young) 2 pr. Swordtails (extra large) 1 pr. Lyretail guppies deluxe 6 neritinia snails (20 colors) 1 doz. Vallisneria (cultivated) 1 insulated German shipping can Live arrival and satisfaction guaranteed. Terms: cash with order. Excel Tropical Aquarium, Howell, MI offered aquariums in 4, 6, 8, 10, and 14 gallon sizes priced from $2.50 $40.70 To $6.00 $97.69 There were a lot of advertisements without prices. There were also items that would have required me to post the advertising copy so you would understand what they were. Of possible interest, and also for more than fishkeepers interested in the history of the hobby, was an advertisement for Edison Aquarium Heaters. The Edison was, indeed, none other than Thomas A. Edison, and the heaters came from his Edison Electrical Controls company in West Orange, NJ. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48516	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: baby aeneus cory

So I got a picture of my baby aeneus cory this morning, if anyone wants to see it I added it to my folder "Amber's 55 Gallon" under the group photo's. Here is a link as well http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/1021403886/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48517	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory

Awwww...he couldn't be cuter! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > So I got a picture of my baby aeneus cory this morning, if anyone > wants > to see it I added it to my folder "Amber's 55 Gallon" under the group > photo's. > Here is a link as well > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/ > pic/1021403886/view? > picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > > Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48518	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory

Yes he's quite a cute little guy, just about a quarter of an inch long including his tailfin :) I'm glad one of the eggs managed to hatch and survive, I lost one of my cory's this winter so this will replace the lost one, LOL. Now if only all my fish could do this for me (replace the dead ones with babies). ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Awwww...he couldn't be cuter! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > >> So I got a picture of my baby aeneus cory this morning, if anyone >> wants >> to see it I added it to my folder "Amber's 55 Gallon" under the group >> photo's. >> Here is a link as well >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/ >> pic/1021403886/view? >> picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc >> >> Amber >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48519	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory

Hi Amber,   Question?  Only ONE in photo???   Whatcha do with the rest of the little buggers?   Bill --- On Mon, 6/21/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] baby aeneus cory To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 21, 2010, 2:49 PM Yes he's quite a cute little guy, just about a quarter of an inch long including his tailfin :) I'm glad one of the eggs managed to hatch and survive, I lost one of my cory's this winter so this will replace the lost one, LOL. Now if only all my fish could do this for me (replace the dead ones with babies). ;) Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Awwww...he couldn't be cuter! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > >    >> So I got a picture of my baby aeneus cory this morning, if anyone  >> wants >> to see it I added it to my folder "Amber's 55 Gallon" under the group >> photo's. >> Here is a link as well >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/ >> pic/1021403886/view? >> picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc >> >> Amber >> >>      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >    ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48520	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory

Very cute. Yours, Villandra Note: Due to a wave of good people getting their-email addresses hijacked, I no longer sign my e-mails with my real name. If you see a plea for help from Villandra, you'll know it isn't from me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:43 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] baby aeneus cory So I got a picture of my baby aeneus cory this morning, if anyone wants to see it I added it to my folder "Amber's 55 Gallon" under the group photo's. Here is a link as well http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/1021403886/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48521	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory

Don't tell mom and dad.... but the pleco's ate them before they hatched ;) LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > Question? Only ONE in photo??? > > Whatcha do with the rest of the little buggers? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 6/21/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] baby aeneus cory > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, June 21, 2010, 2:49 PM > > Yes he's quite a cute little guy, just about a quarter of an inch long > including his tailfin :) > I'm glad one of the eggs managed to hatch and survive, I lost one of my > cory's this winter so this will replace the lost one, LOL. Now if only > all my fish could do this for me (replace the dead ones with babies). ;) > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Awwww...he couldn't be cuter! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > >> So I got a picture of my baby aeneus cory this morning, if anyone > >> wants > >> to see it I added it to my folder "Amber's 55 Gallon" under the group > >> photo's. > >> Here is a link as well > >> > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/ > >> pic/1021403886/view? > >> picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48522	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory

But I thought you WERE trying to raise them? Not? Just an accident? Bill --- On Mon, 6/21/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] baby aeneus cory > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 21, 2010, 7:36 PM > Don't tell mom and dad.... but the > pleco's ate them before they hatched > ;) LOL. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > Question? Only ONE in photo??? > > > > Whatcha do with the rest of the little buggers? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 6/21/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] baby aeneus cory > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, June 21, 2010, 2:49 PM > > > > Yes he's quite a cute little guy, just about a quarter > of an inch long > > including his tailfin :) > > I'm glad one of the eggs managed to hatch and survive, > I lost one of my > > cory's this winter so this will replace the lost one, > LOL. Now if only > > all my fish could do this for me (replace the dead > ones with babies). ;) > > > > Amber > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Awwww...he couldn't be cuter! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund > wrote: > > > > > > > > >> So I got a picture of my baby aeneus cory > this morning, if anyone > > >> wants > > >> to see it I added it to my folder "Amber's 55 > Gallon" under the group > > >> photo's. > > >> Here is a link as well > > >> > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/ > > >> pic/1021403886/view? > > >> > picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > > >> > > >> Amber > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48523	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: baby aeneus cory

Just a pleasant accident I suppose. I've been trying to get my pleco's to breed, but no luck so far, the male ignores the female, LOL. I lost a couple this winter when I lost the cory though, I'm glad I still have 3 of them left. The cory's would be easy to breed, just keep their water clean and they do the rest of the work, I would just have to give them their own tank to do that and I'm not ready for another tank, LOL. Besides Hubby might kill me if I asked him to have another fish tank ;) Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > But I thought you WERE trying to raise them? > > Not? Just an accident? > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 6/21/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] baby aeneus cory > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, June 21, 2010, 7:36 PM > > Don't tell mom and dad.... but the > > pleco's ate them before they hatched > > ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Question? Only ONE in photo??? > > > > > > Whatcha do with the rest of the little buggers? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/21/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] baby aeneus cory > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, June 21, 2010, 2:49 PM > > > > > > Yes he's quite a cute little guy, just about a quarter > > of an inch long > > > including his tailfin :) > > > I'm glad one of the eggs managed to hatch and survive, > > I lost one of my > > > cory's this winter so this will replace the lost one, > > LOL. Now if only > > > all my fish could do this for me (replace the dead > > ones with babies). ;) > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > Awwww...he couldn't be cuter! > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Amber Berglund > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> So I got a picture of my baby aeneus cory > > this morning, if anyone > > > >> wants > > > >> to see it I added it to my folder "Amber's 55 > > Gallon" under the group > > > >> photo's. > > > >> Here is a link as well > > > >> > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/ > > > >> pic/1021403886/view? > > > >> > > picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > > > >> > > > >> Amber > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on > > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48524	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Breeding licorice gouramis

I have six licorice gouramis doing well in soft acidic water and eating live foods in a ten gallon tank. I want to set up one pair in a five gallon breeder tank with a couple of caves and some oak leaves plus moss. Does anyone have any experience with breeding this fish? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48525	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/21/2010
Subject: Re: Prices Then and Now

I'm going to e-mail Alan and ask if we can borrow those photos of the cans for a short while to post here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Interesting looking cans. How did folks return the cans to the sender... or were these cans only sent to retailers who then returned the cans with/for their next order? In that same photo album, scrolling through the pictures, there's a pic showing a kid carrying one of the fish cans on his head and other pictures showing the fish cans in various stages of being used. One, titled "Hugo Schnelle and Fred Cochu" shows one of the cans with some kind of cloth sack cinched around the short neck of the can. The cans look like they just have lids that push down like on tin cookie cans... is that how they were held in place or were their clamps? Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 5:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Lenny, This link is only for a few here, since they are in a member only section of a Yahoo! list forum, but they do show fish cans. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety/photos/album/19 57804009/pic/1057914925/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20 &dir=asc http://tinyurl.com/26qtxe7 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now How long did it take to ship something like fish in one of those "insulated German shipping cans" from Miami up to N.Y., NY? Do you have a link to a picture of one of these? I did some Googling and couldn't find any but one of the few hits I did get was to an AquArticle by Bob Krampetz... no relationship to the Japanese version of the Klampet's family of The Beverly Hillbillies fame. LOL I may have also found my other questions answered in this article as well. http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/literature/Krampetz_50_years.html "50 Years Is A Long Time" (SNIP) "...The other style has disappeared, I haven't seen them in years. They were about 24" in diameter, sides about 8" high then it angled in for another 4" to an 8" opening. A metal lid fit snugly into the top and they looked much like the antique milk can lids. They were known as "German shipping containers". The idea was water would slosh about more, "oxygenating" the water, and more fish could be put into those low wide cans. The German shipping can was the preferred shipping container for Florida raised fish. Bangkok? Thailand? Southeast Asia? No way! Those exotic locals were only in National Geographic, which us pubescent boys read to get a look at naked breasts! Florida raised fish shipped to New York had a high mortality. It wasn't unusual for any store getting a delivery and finding no fish alive. Heavy metal cans, no water chemicals, and railroad service taking several days to make it up the coast ensured that local New York fish breeders always had the market...." (END SNIP) You should compile all of this for the AHHS group also! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now I did not get your first reply (thanks Yahoo!--yet another message gone astray), but none of the items mentioned in my post were marked as postage included. Some other items, that I did not include, did have that mentioned, though. However, by the way most were advertised, I do suspect postage was included. Fish were being shipped by air from South America in that time period, I believe, but within the country, Railway Express was used extensively for shipping long distances. The can mentioned by Miami Tropical Aquarium for its collection probably was shipped by railroad, which had a wider distribution and more frequent schedule than railroads have today. Cities used to have zones defined by the post office. You would see an address like New York 6, New York, with the 6 being the zone number indicating the area of NYC the piece was going. Someone decided it would be a wonderful thing is all post offices had a number to help route mail, thinking it would make the whole system more efficient. The country was divided up into sections and each post office was assigned a 5 digit number, with extras reserve for future expansion. An interesting note is that you may see that this was done in sections with the post offices being assigned alphabetically, usually, as I have noticed, by county within a state. I believe this was known as the Zone Improvement Program, or, with the government's fondness for acronyms, ZIP. Don't ask me why I remember this crap <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Oops.. I forgot one of my reference links... http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa047.html - The CATO Institute called the USPS "The Last Dinosaur"... in 1985!!!... with this snip starting off their 1985 article... Executive Summary Mail service is becoming slower, more expensive, and less reliable. The price of a first-class stamp will go up to 22 cents this month--a 633 percent increase since 1958. First-class mail delivery is 10 percent slower than it was 15 years ago, and Postmaster General William Bolger concedes that postal delivery may have been more reliable in the 1920s.[1] The United States Postal Service (U.S.P.S.) is probably the worst managed and one of the least honest corporations in America. One innovation after another has failed as the Postal Service struggles to enter the twentieth century. The service spends tens of millions of dollars each year to deceive the public about the poor quality of mail service. From mail delivery times to productivity increases to nine-digit zip codes, the Postal Service turns out reams of misleading information. Americans are suffering a gradual extinction of mail service. In the past 15 years, the U.S.P.S. has intentionally slowed mail delivery, cut back on mail collection pickups, shortened the target zone for overnight delivery, reduced business deliveries, imposed strict requirements on the size of letters it will accept, and begun the abolition of home delivery. Congress is considering ending Saturday mail delivery. The federal government has a monopoly on the delivery of first-class mail; as a result, the Postal Service is the country's third-largest employer. Like all monopolies, the postal monopoly is abused, as the government forces people to accept increasingly worse service at ever higher prices. (END SNIP) How did y'all afford buying and shipping fish back then??? I bet y'all were wondering how I was going to get this back on topic... weren't you? LOL Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@...] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:56 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now Thank God the government didn't regulate the pricing of fish and supplies with their standard 3% to 10% baseline rate increase each year, regardless to what is happening in the real world or the marketplace. With the free market, real prices have stayed FAR BELOW standardized inflationary rate pricing or government baseline rate/cost pricing. That $6.00 Miami Tropical Aquarium "package" and "The Aquarium" magazine looks like the best prices on things back when you, Ray and Bill were young men. :-D I'm guessing those 1934 prices did NOT include shipping/handling... right? Considering airline and transportation de-regulation didn't happen until the early 80's, those prices must have been quite high as well. Did they ship stuff "air-mail" back then? I remember "airmail" postage being an option back when I was a kid, before they had overnight shipping services like FedEx and just a letter sent by "airmail" was expensive. A regular stamp for the first ounce in 1934 (and 1938) would have cost .03 (3 cents) which adjusted for inflation, would be .48 (48 cents) so the USPS has pretty much adjusted the price of the stamp based on inflation instead of on marketplace conditions... which is probably why they're losing billions of dollars each year. I can't find year by year pricing for airmail but in 1938, the price for a one ounce airmail stamp was .65 (65 cents)... which adjusted for inflation and if still available today (they stopped airmail in the late 70's), would cost $10.31 today.. for the first ounce!!! Each additional ounce would also cost $10.31 so a two-pound package would cost $237.13!!!!! Thank God for the private sector and companies like FEDEX, UPS, etc... and the deregulation of the airline industry which has brought the pricing of airline tickets and shipping WAY DOWN and made air travel and shipping affordable for the majority of Americans. WOW... I didn't realize that ZIP Codes didn't start up until 1963. Does anyone know what ZIP stands for... without looking it up? Hint... it doesn't stand for "zippy" or fast service. LOL Refs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_postage_rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_the_United _States_of_America#Air_Mail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ \\Steve// (and others) - You might like this RT (Random Thoughts) mailing list, http://www.westegg.com/rt/... which is kind of like your WebWanderings but on a monthly basis... based on the author's description. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Prices Then and Now As promised a while back, I'll give you some prices from back then (January, 1934, "The Aquarium" ($0.20 cover price, now it would be $3.26) ads are the reference point.). If this does not come out well from the Yahoo end, I'll redo it and post it as a PDF file. Test Kit for pH only from K. I. Chambers, Philadelphia, PA: $2.00 $32.56 Fundulus cubensis (now Cubanichthys cubensis, Cuban killifish) Achirus fasciatus (now Trinectes maculates, Hogchoker) Palaemontese exilipes (? Described as a transparent freshwater shrimp) All three from Everglades Aquarium, Tampa, FL $3.75 $61.06 Cichlasoma meeki (now Thorichthys meeki, firemouth cichlid) Sunnyland Fish Farm, Inc., Opa-Loacka, FL (per dozen young) $10.00 $162.82 Miami Tropical Aquarium offered the following package deal for $6.00 $97.69 2 pr. Blood red moons (mature) 2 pr. Deluxe gold moons (mature) 2 pr. Black mollies (young) 2 pr. Swordtails (extra large) 1 pr. Lyretail guppies deluxe 6 neritinia snails (20 colors) 1 doz. Vallisneria (cultivated) 1 insulated German shipping can Live arrival and satisfaction guaranteed. Terms: cash with order. Excel Tropical Aquarium, Howell, MI offered aquariums in 4, 6, 8, 10, and 14 gallon sizes priced from $2.50 $40.70 To $6.00 $97.69 There were a lot of advertisements without prices. There were also items that would have required me to post the advertising copy so you would understand what they were. Of possible interest, and also for more than fishkeepers interested in the history of the hobby, was an advertisement for Edison Aquarium Heaters. The Edison was, indeed, none other than Thomas A. Edison, and the heaters came from his Edison Electrical Controls company in West Orange, NJ. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48544	From: skwirrley2	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth

Hello everyone!!! It has been a long while since I have been on due to moving and caring for our pigs, chickens and getting the garden in! I have read that you can put DE (diatomaceous earth) in ponds to keep the algae out and you can put it in your filter media to help the aquarium. Is this true? If so how do you use it? Another question I have is has anyone out there tried aquaponics? I would love to learn more about it Thanks for your help!!! Sandi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48546	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth

I've never used it in my ponds before, although I've read about using Koi clay (bentonite) in ponds. I haven't really heard much about using it in aquariums either except there are DE filter systems that can be run on aquariums from time to time as a polishing filter but they shouldn't be run full time. There are DE pool and hot tub filter systems as well. I just did a Google of 'diatemaceous earth in ponds' and NONE of the top hits were from what I would call reputable websites although some pond/garden forums did have people asking questions about it.. but most of the hit's summaries were related to DE filter systems, not actually using DE in the pond itself. I didn't read them for responses since NONE of the known and reputable pond related websites showed up. Unless you can find several reputable peer-reviewed articles suggesting this, I wouldn't do it. Now, all that said, there is NO WAY to actually keep algae out of a pond... or aquarium for that matter. What you can do is find the cause of the excessive algae, usually related to insufficient pond or filter maintenance, overstocking, overfeeding, food with too high of phosphates or possibly even something in your source water. Once you find the cause of the excessive algae, then fix that problem and the algae will diminish to a proper level. I'm presuming you live on a farm or out in the country... unless you're one of those city-neighbors-from-hell with chickens and pigs in their back yard... lol... and if you are in the country, do you have ducks or other water fowl using your pond from time to time... or possibly daily? If so, you should dissuade that as bird poop (yes, they will poop in the water... they don't all aim for our freshly washed cars) will cause water quality issues including feeding excessive algae blooms. I bet \\Steve// has tried aquaponics in his basement garden (at least that's what he calls it), since he often reminisces about his times at Woodstock.. lol.. just kidding... maybe! :-D Were you thinking about using the aquaponics for your aquarium or pond? I don't use aquaponics per se but I do use my fish water to water my few house plants and give buckets of it to my neighbors who have more plants. Many others will siphon their tank water into their gardens or lawns when doing weekly PWC's (partial water changes). I use a Python water change system so most of my tank water goes down the drain except for what I siphon out of the gravel into buckets first, for my and my neighbors plants/gardens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skwirrley2 Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Hello everyone!!! It has been a long while since I have been on due to moving and caring for our pigs, chickens and getting the garden in! I have read that you can put DE (diatomaceous earth) in ponds to keep the algae out and you can put it in your filter media to help the aquarium. Is this true? If so how do you use it? Another question I have is has anyone out there tried aquaponics? I would love to learn more about it Thanks for your help!!! Sandi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48549	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth

Hi Sandi, I am mostly seconding what Lenny said. I have never heard of DE being used in a pond to inhibit algae. As far as I know it would just be a fairly inert material in the pond neither harming nor helping anything. I have used a DE filter and as Lenny stated they should not be run full time although a longtime manufacturer of them has made one for continuous use. The DE filters are AMAZING when it comes to polishing your water. The DE filter filters down to one micron and I do believe it can catch floating ICH, or so I have been informed. I used to use mine and it looked like the fish were floating in air! They are however a major hassle to prime and start using. Proved to be more hassle than I wanted to deal with and I have not used it in about 7 years. No experience with Aquaponics, but there are several "Universities" out here in Kalifornia that can teach you how to use them for THC production ;) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: skwirrley2 <skwirrley2@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 5:57 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Hello everyone!!! It has been a long while since I have been on due to moving and caring for our pigs, chickens and getting the garden in! I have read that you can put DE (diatomaceous earth) in ponds to keep the algae out and you can put it in your filter media to help the aquarium. Is this true? If so how do you use it? Another question I have is has anyone out there tried aquaponics? I would love to learn more about it Thanks for your help!!! Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48561	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth

Sandi, See my reply to Lenny for some comments. (Posted after I have my supper, which, apparently, is ready NOW!, or so she says <g>.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skwirrley2 Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 8:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Hello everyone!!! It has been a long while since I have been on due to moving and caring for our pigs, chickens and getting the garden in! I have read that you can put DE (diatomaceous earth) in ponds to keep the algae out and you can put it in your filter media to help the aquarium. Is this true? If so how do you use it? Another question I have is has anyone out there tried aquaponics? I would love to learn more about it Thanks for your help!!! Sandi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48563	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth

Lenny, Just trying to cover everything in one post here. Diatomaceous Earth (DE) is actually a powdery substance composed of diatoms. It makes an excellent secondary or tertiary filter material, and can filter down to 3 microns or a bit less. It was made famous in the aquarium hobby with the advent of the Vortex filter to put that final "polish" in the water of the tank, giving one crystal clear water. While it can most certainly filter out algae that is suspended in the water column, it really is not used for that purpose. With it being such a fine filter media, it will rapidly clog if used for that purpose. To use it as a filter material, the Vortex filter used it to coat a fine mesh bag that the water was drawn through. As the bag is coated, smaller and smaller particles would be trapped, until the bag was fully coated, which would then mean the filter reached its maximum efficiency. This maximum efficiency will only last a short period of time as the DE will eventually clog, and the filter flow will decrease. It is recommended that it only be used for a short period of time in the tank, mainly for a final "polishing" of the water. I used it once a week or so, until I really did not care to have crystal clear water, which was about the time all my tanks found their way into a fishroom. With the amount of things found in a pond, you can see that this would not be a particularly good filter material, as it would rapidly clog and need maintenance. Now, if you do not mind the cost and the work, you can hang around the pond all day, giving your filter periodic maintenance to keep it running. Spreading it in the pond would have no effect on the algae. If suspended algae is a real problem for you, you would be better off using an ultraviolet light in the water flow to or from the filter. Lenny loses the bet on the aquaponics, unless one would want to count trying to grow various terrestrial plants using tank water. I have read about it though, and decided that the effort was not worth the reward. I did have the honor of having a behind the scenes tour of Epcot many years ago courtesy of a friend of a friend. I am still impressed, lo these many years later, the aquaponics they were experimenting with down there at the time, which is what had kindled my original interest in the subject. There is, or was, a place out on Cape Cod in Massachusetts where they were raising tilapia and doing some aquaponics in conjunction with the fish tanks and using tank water for further use in their aquaponics installation which, again, piqued my interest in the subject. I do not believe I have ever reminisced about Woodstock here, and most of the people I know who were there are now somewhere over the rainbow. FWIW, one of those friends served, at various times, as a body guard for the Dali Lama. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:10 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth I've never used it in my ponds before, although I've read about using Koi clay (bentonite) in ponds. I haven't really heard much about using it in aquariums either except there are DE filter systems that can be run on aquariums from time to time as a polishing filter but they shouldn't be run full time. There are DE pool and hot tub filter systems as well. I just did a Google of 'diatemaceous earth in ponds' and NONE of the top hits were from what I would call reputable websites although some pond/garden forums did have people asking questions about it.. but most of the hit's summaries were related to DE filter systems, not actually using DE in the pond itself. I didn't read them for responses since NONE of the known and reputable pond related websites showed up. Unless you can find several reputable peer-reviewed articles suggesting this, I wouldn't do it. Now, all that said, there is NO WAY to actually keep algae out of a pond... or aquarium for that matter. What you can do is find the cause of the excessive algae, usually related to insufficient pond or filter maintenance, overstocking, overfeeding, food with too high of phosphates or possibly even something in your source water. Once you find the cause of the excessive algae, then fix that problem and the algae will diminish to a proper level. I'm presuming you live on a farm or out in the country... unless you're one of those city-neighbors-from-hell with chickens and pigs in their back yard... lol... and if you are in the country, do you have ducks or other water fowl using your pond from time to time... or possibly daily? If so, you should dissuade that as bird poop (yes, they will poop in the water... they don't all aim for our freshly washed cars) will cause water quality issues including feeding excessive algae blooms. I bet \\Steve// has tried aquaponics in his basement garden (at least that's what he calls it), since he often reminisces about his times at Woodstock.. lol.. just kidding... maybe! :-D Were you thinking about using the aquaponics for your aquarium or pond? I don't use aquaponics per se but I do use my fish water to water my few house plants and give buckets of it to my neighbors who have more plants. Many others will siphon their tank water into their gardens or lawns when doing weekly PWC's (partial water changes). I use a Python water change system so most of my tank water goes down the drain except for what I siphon out of the gravel into buckets first, for my and my neighbors plants/gardens. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skwirrley2 Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Hello everyone!!! It has been a long while since I have been on due to moving and caring for our pigs, chickens and getting the garden in! I have read that you can put DE (diatomaceous earth) in ponds to keep the algae out and you can put it in your filter media to help the aquarium. Is this true? If so how do you use it? Another question I have is has anyone out there tried aquaponics? I would love to learn more about it Thanks for your help!!! Sandi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48564	From: shrlycat	Date: 6/23/2010
Subject: Okay, here's a non-oil issue for ya - cory cats and a convict cichli

If I put two cory cats in a 40-gallon tank with an adult convict, some platies, and two zebras, would the convict go for the corys? (I have a ten-gallon with three platies, two serpae tetras, a female betta, and two albino corys, and the tank seems very clean when I do a water change.) Thought it might be a good idea to put two corys in the 40-gallon. The cichlid stays on the bottom mostly, and I assume he's keeping the platy population in check, but would he go after the cory cats?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48569	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth

DM is some cool stuff. I use it to kill fleas on my pets and to kill other insects. It is also used in filters to really filter the water both in aquariums and in pools. Not sure about the algae though. The action on insects is that it digs into the chitinous shell of the insect and lets all the water out and they die from dehydration. DM is the fossilized remains of diatoms. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 8:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Sandi, See my reply to Lenny for some comments. (Posted after I have my supper, which, apparently, is ready NOW!, or so she says <g>.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of skwirrley2 Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 8:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Hello everyone!!! It has been a long while since I have been on due to moving and caring for our pigs, chickens and getting the garden in! I have read that you can put DE (diatomaceous earth) in ponds to keep the algae out and you can put it in your filter media to help the aquarium. Is this true? If so how do you use it? Another question I have is has anyone out there tried aquaponics? I would love to learn more about it Thanks for your help!!! Sandi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48573	From: skwirrley2	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth

Thank you all for your responses! We use the DE for our pigs and in the chicken coop so I am filmiliar with its properties. I was wondering if it would affect my fish in that way. I have a 75 gal aquarium set up at the moment and will be setting up more when time permits.(I have 1 55g, 2 30g, 3 20g and 2 10g tanks!) I do not want to harm the fish! We do have a koi pond in the yard but it is going to be moves as soon as I can find the time to do it. There are no fish in it... it is left over from previous owners and is in a bad location. For the aquaponics I wanted to use aquariums to grow things like lettuce that can not be grown in the heat in summer or cold in winter. Seems to me like it is a win win situation if it is done correctly. Anyway, Thank you again for your input! It is greatly appreciated! BTW we live way out in the country on 5 acres and the neighbors seem to enjoy our animals as much as we do! ;) Sandi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48574	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth

I don't think it would have any real benefits and could possibly harm the fish's gills if the DE stays suspended in the water and keeps passing over the fish's gills and could cause scraping that would make it easier for opportunistic bacteria or parasites to take advantage of the injured gills. I wouldn't use it unless you do a LOT more research and actually find some reputable pond/fish sites that have used DE for long term with no side effects. In all my years of reading websites and forums, I've never seen DE mentioned other than as a filter media. Glad to see you're not a city-slicker-neighbor-from-hell.. lol I love all animals too but pigs and chickens just don't belong right over a fence from a next door neighbor's back yard. If I had that problem with a neighbor, I'm sure I'd have fresh rooster to cook on a regular basis when it starts all of it's racket in the morning. LOL If you ever start up your Koi pond again, then Koi clay (which is also a ground up dry powder) is something that has proven itself over the years... but not for algae... just for adding extra nutrients and minerals to the water to benefit the Koi's health. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skwirrley2 Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Thank you all for your responses! We use the DE for our pigs and in the chicken coop so I am filmiliar with its properties. I was wondering if it would affect my fish in that way. I have a 75 gal aquarium set up at the moment and will be setting up more when time permits.(I have 1 55g, 2 30g, 3 20g and 2 10g tanks!) I do not want to harm the fish! We do have a koi pond in the yard but it is going to be moves as soon as I can find the time to do it. There are no fish in it... it is left over from previous owners and is in a bad location. For the aquaponics I wanted to use aquariums to grow things like lettuce that can not be grown in the heat in summer or cold in winter. Seems to me like it is a win win situation if it is done correctly. Anyway, Thank you again for your input! It is greatly appreciated! BTW we live way out in the country on 5 acres and the neighbors seem to enjoy our animals as much as we do! ;) Sandi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48575	From: Mark Hough	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth

I've used DE to filter my water... makes it crystal clear. Never used it for any other purpose. http://www.myspace.com/mhough6229 Mark Hough I'm an agnostic, dyslectic insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a doG. I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met. On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 8:01 AM, skwirrley2 <skwirrley2@...> wrote: > > > Thank you all for your responses! We use the DE for our pigs and in the > chicken coop so I am filmiliar with its properties. I was wondering if it > would affect my fish in that way. I have a 75 gal aquarium set up at the > moment and will be setting up more when time permits.(I have 1 55g, 2 30g, 3 > 20g and 2 10g tanks!) I do not want to harm the fish! We do have a koi pond > in the yard but it is going to be moves as soon as I can find the time to do > it. There are no fish in it... it is left over from previous owners and is > in a bad location. > > For the aquaponics I wanted to use aquariums to grow things like lettuce > that can not be grown in the heat in summer or cold in winter. Seems to me > like it is a win win situation if it is done correctly. > Anyway, Thank you again for your input! It is greatly appreciated! > > BTW we live way out in the country on 5 acres and the neighbors seem to > enjoy our animals as much as we do! ;) > > Sandi > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48576	From: dmctjc	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: New to cichlids with a question

A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! Donna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48577	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

Are they still juvenile fish or are they full grown adults? Oh wait I see you said you have adults and babies. The babies will need to be fed typically several times a day (they are still growing and have a faster metabolism than the adults), the adults you can feed once a day. But since it's hard to only feed half your fish the adults will probably eat when you feed the babies too. Did this person give you food to feed the babies with, or just the sinking fish food? Amber dmctjc wrote: > > A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. > I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could > have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to > tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at > this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of > the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The > fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them > nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, > according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, > both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use > small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. > > Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! > > Donna > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48590	From: shrlycat	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?

Hey, I live in Florida and I love wildlife and the Gulf situation drives me nuts too, but all our ranting and raving isn't going to mount to a hill of beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my question about adding two or three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with a grown male convict cichlid. (Will the convict harass the corys?)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48591	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?

The last time I had a convict it harassed everything, so I got rid of the convict... So to answer your question I would think the convict would harass the cory's, but I can't be certain as every fish is different. Does your convict harass any of your other fish? Amber shrlycat wrote: > > Hey, I live in Florida and I love wildlife and the Gulf situation > drives me nuts too, but all our ranting and raving isn't going to > mount to a hill of beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my > question about adding two or three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with > a grown male convict cichlid. (Will the convict harass the corys?) > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48592	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/24/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

If your "Highfin algae eater" is actually a Chinese Banded Highfin Shark http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinus.html, which is said to be an algae eater when small, you should start looking for a REALLY BIG TANK, REALLY SOON. They grow to OVER THREE FEET LONG! :-O They look OK... even kind of cool looking... when they are juvis to young adults but they soon lose their high fin and start to look pretty butt-ugly as adults. See the images on the above link. Wikipedia calls them "...a popular freshwater community-aquarium fish..." which is just utter nonsense. I guess I have to log into my Wikipedia editor account and fix that article. LOL Even LiveAquaria.com, DrsFosterSmith.com's live goods sister site, says "...In the wild, this fish can reach up to 39 inches in length; in the aquarium setting they generally reach only 18-24 inches. Due to its size, the Hi Fin Banded Shark requires more advanced care and handling. Therefore, an aquarium with 125 gallons or more of moving, well-filtered, and well-oxygenated water is necessary. Many people find this species to be an ideal algae eater in the backyard garden pond, as the fish can tolerate temperatures as low as 40 degrees Fahrenheit...." What LiveAquaria doesn't say is that the reason these BIG fish only reach 18-24 inches in aquariums is due to stunting... which is an unhealthy side effect of keeping fish in overstocked or undersized homes. Trying to keep one of these MONSTER fish in a 125G aquarium is REALLY BAD ADVICE. At least they do go on to mention a backyard garden pond but even that is probably too small for one of these fish. More like a backyard in ground swimming pool! Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dmctjc Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! Donna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48593	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?

I bypassed your question in hopes that someone with actual convict experience would answer. Amber did a bit earlier. As she alludes, the definitive answer is it depends. You may be able to add the corys with no problems whatsoever. You may add the corys only to find them in pieces the next morning. I cannot remember your original post enough to remember if you had any other fish in the tank with the convict. If so, then you may likely have success adding the corys, particularly if the convict is larger than the other fish. If the convict is the "last man standing" having taken on all interlopers in the tank, then I'd not even try. If you are going to try, rearrange the tank prior to the addition of the corys. Do this late in the day, and you can darken the tank. Add the corys immediately after the rearrangement so the convict is left figuring out what has happened to his surroundings. When he discovers there are now new fish, he will probably be more inclined to ignore them while he is still trying to get his bearings with the new arrangement. Check on the tank often in the first few days, If signs of aggression are noted, you'll probably be better off removing the corys and placing them in another tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shrlycat Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question? Hey, I live in Florida and I love wildlife and the Gulf situation drives me nuts too, but all our ranting and raving isn't going to mount to a hill of beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my question about adding two or three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with a grown male convict cichlid. (Will the convict harass the corys?)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48595	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?

The simple answer is he should not BUT........... Is HE the only convict in with them? How old or big is he now?   All cichlids will get combative at mating time BUT...... If the fish were ALL raised together.........   Usually that's the key.  I kept Oscars and they are messy eaters.  To that end, I had an army of Cory Cats in with them, they never bothered them at all BUT, they were raised together right from the beginning.  Sometimes it goes to who was in the tank first. One of the best ways of adding any fish in a tank with a cichlid is just prior to introducing your new fish, rearrange the tank.  Plants rock work, move everything around so if the cichlid does have a territory staked out you have just moved it!  It's always best to watch and have a stand-by safety tank in case.   Bill --- On Thu, 6/24/10, shrlycat <shrlycat@...> wrote: > From: shrlycat <shrlycat@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 24, 2010, 11:13 PM > Hey, I live in Florida and I love > wildlife and the Gulf situation drives me nuts too, but all > our ranting and raving isn't going to mount to a hill of > beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my question about > adding two or three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with a > grown male convict cichlid. (Will the convict harass the > corys?) > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48596	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Another dive spot for Mike "Deneerz" - The Great Blue Hole Of Belize

http://planetoddity.com/the-great-blue-hole-of-belize-worlds-deepest-sea-hol e/ Mike, I never did make it to this place during my scuba diving days when I was making several dive trips a year. I got close when I spent two weeks down off the coast of Honduras diving the Utilla Keys (19 miles from Anthony's Key, which is a world renowned dive destination), which was also some phenomenal diving but one day, I'm going to make it the "The Great Blue Hole". I came across the link while looking up something else and thought I'd pique your interest in learning scuba diving. Here's another, even better reason to visit Belize. http://juliadoctoroff.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/guest-writer-daniel-keeney-on -belize/ Of course, I never really read the above article since the scroll wheel on my mouse quit working... or maybe it was a subliminal act where I couldn't force myself to scroll down from the picture. :-D Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48597	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?

Since you started a new thread, I found your earlier post and have copy/pasted it below, for ready reference. Are the "two zebras" zebra danios... or something else? If they are zebra danios, they should be kept in schools of six or more with at least two females for every male to spread any mating aggression. Most Corydoras sp. should also be kept in shoals of five or more although some species do OK with shoals three or more. What species of Corydoras do you have? Many of the species... probably all of them... can come as albino's, which is a pigmentation issue, not a species. As Amber said, Convict cichlids are notably aggressive fish and a 40G may not be big enough for him and other fish. Read these profiles http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile58.html and http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_nigrofasciatum.html, especially the Maintenance section on Badman's site, which says, among other things, "This is perhaps one of the most forgiving fish in the pet trade... they are amazing survivors and adaptors! However, they are not for the weak of heart and for those fishkeepers with peaceful community tank fish. These fish are NOT known for their gentle dispositions, and need to be kept with other aggressive, larger fish that will hold their own (it can and will harass some fish to death). They have been known to pick fights with Oscars more than 3X's their size, and win! Best kept alone or with their own kind, but fascinating fish to watch..." The Mongabay profile lists "Suggested Companions" as "Cichlasomines, other South American cichlids, Loricarids, Pimelodids, large Characins, Hemichromis, Tilapia.". Loricarids are "armored suckermouth catfish" like pleco's, etc... of which Corydoras are NOT part of that family. http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm All that said, fish do not always read the same material that we read so it could become best buddies with the Corydoras... or it could beat them up and eat them... or somewhere in between. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shrlycat Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question? Hey, I live in Florida and I love wildlife and the Gulf situation drives me nuts too, but all our ranting and raving isn't going to mount to a hill of beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my question about adding two or three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with a grown male convict cichlid. (Will the convict harass the corys?) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shrlycat Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, here's a non-oil issue for ya - cory cats and a convict cichlid? If I put two cory cats in a 40-gallon tank with an adult convict, some platies, and two zebras, would the convict go for the corys? (I have a ten-gallon with three platies, two serpae tetras, a female betta, and two albino corys, and the tank seems very clean when I do a water change.) Thought it might be a good idea to put two corys in the 40-gallon. The cichlid stays on the bottom mostly, and I assume he's keeping the platy population in check, but would he go after the cory cats?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48599	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

Typing this after picking my jaw up off the ground. Thanks for the education! I have a friend with a pond that she maintains well thru our cold Winters; I'll give it to her. I was originally offered the small electric labs, which after I did a little research, thought I could handle. Then she called me and offered me all of the fish as she had decided to take her tank down. I took them before I researched all of them. Donna -------------------------------------------------- From: "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 12:24 AM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > If your "Highfin algae eater" is actually a Chinese Banded Highfin Shark > http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/myxocyprinus/myxocyprinus.html, > which is said to be an algae eater when small, you should start looking > for > a REALLY BIG TANK, REALLY SOON. They grow to OVER THREE FEET LONG! :-O > They look OK... even kind of cool looking... when they are juvis to young > adults but they soon lose their high fin and start to look pretty > butt-ugly > as adults. See the images on the above link. > > Wikipedia calls them "...a popular freshwater community-aquarium fish..." > which is just utter nonsense. I guess I have to log into my Wikipedia > editor account and fix that article. LOL > > Even LiveAquaria.com, DrsFosterSmith.com's live goods sister site, says > "...In the wild, this fish can reach up to 39 inches in length; in the > aquarium setting they generally reach only 18-24 inches. Due to its size, > the Hi Fin Banded Shark requires more advanced care and handling. > Therefore, > an aquarium with 125 gallons or more of moving, well-filtered, and > well-oxygenated water is necessary. Many people find this species to be an > ideal algae eater in the backyard garden pond, as the fish can tolerate > temperatures as low as 40 degrees Fahrenheit...." > > What LiveAquaria doesn't say is that the reason these BIG fish only reach > 18-24 inches in aquariums is due to stunting... which is an unhealthy side > effect of keeping fish in overstocked or undersized homes. Trying to keep > one of these MONSTER fish in a 125G aquarium is REALLY BAD ADVICE. At > least > they do go on to mention a backyard garden pond but even that is probably > too small for one of these fish. More like a backyard in ground swimming > pool! > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of dmctjc > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:41 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > > A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. I > rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could have a 55 > gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to tear her tank > down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at this time is about > feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of the aquarium. How do I > know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The fish come out to grab some > as > it's falling down and I also see them nosing through the gravel at times > during the day. The fish are, according to the woman who gave them to me: > 9 > electric yellow labs, both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin > algae eater. I use small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for > them > to hide in. > > Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! > > Donna > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2962 - Release Date: 06/25/10 > 02:35:00 >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48600	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

Thanks for the help. She gave me: Top Fin Freeze Dried Tubifex Worms, Hikari Cichlid Gold and HBH African Cichlid sinking pellet fish food. They're all moving around well and to my inexperienced eye look healthy. Donna -------------------------------------------------- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:39 PM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > Are they still juvenile fish or are they full grown adults? Oh wait I > see you said you have adults and babies. > The babies will need to be fed typically several times a day (they are > still growing and have a faster metabolism than the adults), the adults > you can feed once a day. But since it's hard to only feed half your fish > the adults will probably eat when you feed the babies too. > Did this person give you food to feed the babies with, or just the > sinking fish food? > > Amber > > dmctjc wrote: >> >> A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. >> I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could >> have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to >> tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at >> this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of >> the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The >> fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them >> nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, >> according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, >> both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use >> small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. >> >> Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! >> >> Donna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48601	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?

I have had lots of convicts - I would say they would not harass the cories, unless the cories are babies and the convict can eat it. The cory will learn to stay out of convict territory, except at night when the bad boy is asleep;) ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 8:43:38 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question? The last time I had a convict it harassed everything, so I got rid of the convict... So to answer your question I would think the convict would harass the cory's, but I can't be certain as every fish is different. Does your convict harass any of your other fish? Amber shrlycat wrote: > > Hey, I live in Florida and I love wildlife and the Gulf situation > drives me nuts too, but all our ranting and raving isn't going to > mount to a hill of beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my > question about adding two or three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with > a grown male convict cichlid. (Will the convict harass the corys?) > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48602	From: shrlycat	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: More info re cichlid convict and corys in same tank

Yes the zebras are danios. There's only the one male convict, Larry. There was a Curly and a Moe but they died; there was never a female in the tank. The boys would move the gravel around and make a nest, but I haven't seen Larry do that for a long time. (I felt bad they didn't have a female but I didn't want to deal with cichlid fry.) About six months ago, he started hiding in a large fake hollow tree and I rarely saw him; some folks here suggested adding so-called dither fish to encourage him to come out. I added four danios. After few days, I noticed there were only two. Didn't see any remains, so I guess Larry got them. We had a bunch of platies in another tank and decided to add some to the big tank. We put in about 6 or 7; now of course there are more, but I think Larry is keeping the platy population down. He normally hangs out on one side of the tank, near the bottom, but I have seen him dart quickly toward the surface - trying to get a platy? I've also seen him on the other side where the platy fry hide. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since you started a new thread, I found your earlier post and have > copy/pasted it below, for ready reference. > > Are the "two zebras" zebra danios... or something else? If they are zebra > danios, they should be kept in schools of six or more with at least two > females for every male to spread any mating aggression. > > Most Corydoras sp. should also be kept in shoals of five or more although > some species do OK with shoals three or more. What species of Corydoras do > you have? Many of the species... probably all of them... can come as > albino's, which is a pigmentation issue, not a species. > > As Amber said, Convict cichlids are notably aggressive fish and a 40G may > not be big enough for him and other fish. > > Read these profiles http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile58.html > and http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_nigrofasciatum.html, > especially the Maintenance section on Badman's site, which says, among other > things, "This is perhaps one of the most forgiving fish in the pet trade... > they are amazing survivors and adaptors! However, they are not for the weak > of heart and for those fishkeepers with peaceful community tank fish. These > fish are NOT known for their gentle dispositions, and need to be kept with > other aggressive, larger fish that will hold their own (it can and will > harass some fish to death). They have been known to pick fights with Oscars > more than 3X's their size, and win! Best kept alone or with their own kind, > but fascinating fish to watch..." > > The Mongabay profile lists "Suggested Companions" as "Cichlasomines, other > South American cichlids, Loricarids, Pimelodids, large Characins, > Hemichromis, Tilapia.". Loricarids are "armored suckermouth catfish" like > pleco's, etc... of which Corydoras are NOT part of that family. > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm > > All that said, fish do not always read the same material that we read so it > could become best buddies with the Corydoras... or it could beat them up and > eat them... or somewhere in between. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of shrlycat > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question? > > Hey, I live in Florida and I love wildlife and the Gulf situation drives me > nuts too, but all our ranting and raving isn't going to mount to a hill of > beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my question about adding two or > three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with a grown male convict cichlid. (Will > the convict harass the corys?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of shrlycat > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, here's a non-oil issue for ya - cory cats and a > convict cichlid? > > If I put two cory cats in a 40-gallon tank with an adult convict, some > platies, and two zebras, would the convict go for the corys? (I have a > ten-gallon with three platies, two serpae tetras, a female betta, and two > albino corys, and the tank seems very clean when I do a water change.) > Thought it might be a good idea to put two corys in the 40-gallon. The > cichlid stays on the bottom mostly, and I assume he's keeping the platy > population in check, but would he go after the cory cats? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48603	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

How big are the babies? are they newly hatched fry or are they somewhere between babies and adults? Amber Donna Camp wrote: > Thanks for the help. She gave me: Top Fin Freeze Dried Tubifex Worms, > Hikari Cichlid Gold and HBH African Cichlid sinking pellet fish food. > They're all moving around well and to my inexperienced eye look healthy. > > Donna > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:39 PM > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > > >> Are they still juvenile fish or are they full grown adults? Oh wait I >> see you said you have adults and babies. >> The babies will need to be fed typically several times a day (they are >> still growing and have a faster metabolism than the adults), the adults >> you can feed once a day. But since it's hard to only feed half your fish >> the adults will probably eat when you feed the babies too. >> Did this person give you food to feed the babies with, or just the >> sinking fish food? >> >> Amber >> >> dmctjc wrote: >> >>> A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. >>> I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could >>> have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to >>> tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at >>> this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of >>> the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The >>> fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them >>> nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, >>> according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, >>> both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use >>> small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. >>> >>> Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! >>> >>> Donna >>> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48604	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

The babies are about 3/4 of an inch - 1 in long, cute and friendly. Donna -------------------------------------------------- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:04 PM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > How big are the babies? are they newly hatched fry or are they somewhere > between babies and adults? > > Amber > > Donna Camp wrote: >> Thanks for the help. She gave me: Top Fin Freeze Dried Tubifex Worms, >> Hikari Cichlid Gold and HBH African Cichlid sinking pellet fish food. >> They're all moving around well and to my inexperienced eye look healthy. >> >> Donna >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:39 PM >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question >> >> >>> Are they still juvenile fish or are they full grown adults? Oh wait I >>> see you said you have adults and babies. >>> The babies will need to be fed typically several times a day (they are >>> still growing and have a faster metabolism than the adults), the adults >>> you can feed once a day. But since it's hard to only feed half your fish >>> the adults will probably eat when you feed the babies too. >>> Did this person give you food to feed the babies with, or just the >>> sinking fish food? >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> dmctjc wrote: >>> >>>> A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. >>>> I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could >>>> have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to >>>> tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at >>>> this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of >>>> the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The >>>> fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them >>>> nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, >>>> according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, >>>> both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use >>>> small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. >>>> >>>> Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! >>>> >>>> Donna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48605	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: More info re cichlid convict and corys in same tank

Were you able to find out what species of Corydoras that you have? It might not matter so much to the Convict but it could... and it would be even more helpful to you to know exactly what you have. Corydoras is the Genus and then there are at least a dozen species common to the aquarium hobby... probably more. If you are unsure, read over this next link, which includes profiles on many of the most commonly available species of Corydoras, to see if the descriptions and/or picture links will help you figure out which species you have. http://fish.mongabay.com/corydoradinae.htm -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shrlycat Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] More info re cichlid convict and corys in same tank Yes the zebras are danios. There's only the one male convict, Larry. There was a Curly and a Moe but they died; there was never a female in the tank. The boys would move the gravel around and make a nest, but I haven't seen Larry do that for a long time. (I felt bad they didn't have a female but I didn't want to deal with cichlid fry.) About six months ago, he started hiding in a large fake hollow tree and I rarely saw him; some folks here suggested adding so-called dither fish to encourage him to come out. I added four danios. After few days, I noticed there were only two. Didn't see any remains, so I guess Larry got them. We had a bunch of platies in another tank and decided to add some to the big tank. We put in about 6 or 7; now of course there are more, but I think Larry is keeping the platy population down. He normally hangs out on one side of the tank, near the bottom, but I have seen him dart quickly toward the surface - trying to get a platy? I've also seen him on the other side where the platy fry hide. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny V. aka GoldLenny" <GoldLenny@...> wrote: > > Since you started a new thread, I found your earlier post and have > copy/pasted it below, for ready reference. > > Are the "two zebras" zebra danios... or something else? If they are > zebra danios, they should be kept in schools of six or more with at > least two females for every male to spread any mating aggression. > > Most Corydoras sp. should also be kept in shoals of five or more > although some species do OK with shoals three or more. What species > of Corydoras do you have? Many of the species... probably all of > them... can come as albino's, which is a pigmentation issue, not a species. > > As Amber said, Convict cichlids are notably aggressive fish and a 40G > may not be big enough for him and very many (correction added) other fish. > > Read these profiles > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile58.html > and http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Cichlasoma_nigrofasciatum.html, > especially the Maintenance section on Badman's site, which says, among > other things, "This is perhaps one of the most forgiving fish in the pet trade... > they are amazing survivors and adaptors! However, they are not for the > weak of heart and for those fishkeepers with peaceful community tank > fish. These fish are NOT known for their gentle dispositions, and need > to be kept with other aggressive, larger fish that will hold their own > (it can and will harass some fish to death). They have been known to > pick fights with Oscars more than 3X's their size, and win! Best kept > alone or with their own kind, but fascinating fish to watch..." > > The Mongabay profile lists "Suggested Companions" as "Cichlasomines, > other South American cichlids, Loricarids, Pimelodids, large > Characins, Hemichromis, Tilapia.". Loricarids are "armored > suckermouth catfish" like pleco's, etc... of which Corydoras are NOT part of that family. > http://fish.mongabay.com/loricariidae.htm > > All that said, fish do not always read the same material that we read > so it could become best buddies with the Corydoras... or it could beat > them up and eat them... or somewhere in between. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles > referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically > under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of shrlycat > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question? > > Hey, I live in Florida and I love wildlife and the Gulf situation > drives me nuts too, but all our ranting and raving isn't going to > mount to a hill of beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my > question about adding two or three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with > a grown male convict cichlid. (Will the convict harass the corys?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of shrlycat > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Okay, here's a non-oil issue for ya - cory cats > and a convict cichlid? > > If I put two cory cats in a 40-gallon tank with an adult convict, some > platies, and two zebras, would the convict go for the corys? (I have > a ten-gallon with three platies, two serpae tetras, a female betta, > and two albino corys, and the tank seems very clean when I do a water > change.) Thought it might be a good idea to put two corys in the > 40-gallon. The cichlid stays on the bottom mostly, and I assume he's > keeping the platy population in check, but would he go after the cory cats?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48606	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

Do you see the babies eating the sinking or other types of food just fine, or do they have trouble eating it (fitting it into their mouths)? If they seem to have a little trouble eating any of the food provided you could probably grind it up a little bit (if you have a mortar and pestle that's the easiest, but a spoon and a paper plate will work as well in a pinch). Amber Donna Camp wrote: > The babies are about 3/4 of an inch - 1 in long, cute and friendly. > > Donna > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:04 PM > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > > >> How big are the babies? are they newly hatched fry or are they somewhere >> between babies and adults? >> >> Amber >> >> Donna Camp wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the help. She gave me: Top Fin Freeze Dried Tubifex Worms, >>> Hikari Cichlid Gold and HBH African Cichlid sinking pellet fish food. >>> They're all moving around well and to my inexperienced eye look healthy. >>> >>> Donna >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:39 PM >>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question >>> >>> >>> >>>> Are they still juvenile fish or are they full grown adults? Oh wait I >>>> see you said you have adults and babies. >>>> The babies will need to be fed typically several times a day (they are >>>> still growing and have a faster metabolism than the adults), the adults >>>> you can feed once a day. But since it's hard to only feed half your fish >>>> the adults will probably eat when you feed the babies too. >>>> Did this person give you food to feed the babies with, or just the >>>> sinking fish food? >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> dmctjc wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. >>>>> I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could >>>>> have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to >>>>> tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at >>>>> this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of >>>>> the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The >>>>> fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them >>>>> nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, >>>>> according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, >>>>> both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use >>>>> small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. >>>>> >>>>> Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! >>>>> >>>>> Donna >>>>> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48607	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

Also follow directions on the food container, most of them say to only feed as much as the fish eat within (at most) 5 minutes). You can also feed less just feed them a little more often, if you don't want to feed them as much as it takes to eat in 5 minutes. Just make sure not to overfeed as fish can easily eat way too much (greedy little guys). Amber Donna Camp wrote: > The babies are about 3/4 of an inch - 1 in long, cute and friendly. > > Donna > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:04 PM > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > > >> How big are the babies? are they newly hatched fry or are they somewhere >> between babies and adults? >> >> Amber >> >> Donna Camp wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the help. She gave me: Top Fin Freeze Dried Tubifex Worms, >>> Hikari Cichlid Gold and HBH African Cichlid sinking pellet fish food. >>> They're all moving around well and to my inexperienced eye look healthy. >>> >>> Donna >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:39 PM >>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question >>> >>> >>> >>>> Are they still juvenile fish or are they full grown adults? Oh wait I >>>> see you said you have adults and babies. >>>> The babies will need to be fed typically several times a day (they are >>>> still growing and have a faster metabolism than the adults), the adults >>>> you can feed once a day. But since it's hard to only feed half your fish >>>> the adults will probably eat when you feed the babies too. >>>> Did this person give you food to feed the babies with, or just the >>>> sinking fish food? >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> dmctjc wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. >>>>> I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could >>>>> have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to >>>>> tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at >>>>> this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of >>>>> the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The >>>>> fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them >>>>> nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, >>>>> according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, >>>>> both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use >>>>> small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. >>>>> >>>>> Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! >>>>> >>>>> Donna >>>>> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48608	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/25/2010
Subject: Fish Can Photos

This topic came up earlier this week when I posted a listing of prices as they were in 1934 and prices they would be now. One of the items mentioned that the fish would be shipped in cans, as was the custom at the time. Someone had brought up the question of what they were and looked like. After some searching, I found some pictures in a members only area for a Yahoo list. With the kind permission of the photographer, I have posted them in the Photos section of the AquaticLife forum in the album Fish Cans. They will be up for a limited time only, as per my agreement with the photographer. The photographer is a fellow named Alan Mark Fletcher. At 80+ years old, he is the oldest living hobbyist to have worked directly with William T. Innes and Innes's "The Aquarium" magazine. He also collected fish in South America and the Philippines. He is the author of 8 books, 7 of them on fish. If one is interested in the history of the hobby, one may wish to consider joining the AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety here on Yahoo \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48609	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Can Photos

\\Steve//, Not sure if I may have missed a reply to the of the questions posted in this thread earlier in the week, but when fish were originally transported in these containers from their locations of origin, this was done so aboard ship which could take up to several weeks to arrive at ports in America or Europe. You may remember, it waas asked how long it took to ship fish in these shipping cans; this would be going back into the 1929's and 1930's. When air transportation started to be used, it cut the transportation time down dramatically. Paramount Aquarium (in Ardsley, NY) headed by Fred Cochue, who also flew most of the flights from S.A., sometimes with Alan Fletcher along with him, was one of the first importers to fly them in by themselves -- first to their Miami compound and then from there up to New York. Ray .. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48610	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Can Photos

Were you around in the fish keeping hobby when these were used? If yes, did all the cans have this cloth "sack" around them that looks like it's cinched up around the base of the neck? I only see it on the one can in this one picture. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/recent/1172547210/view Originally, in the earlier thread, you referred to them as "Insulated German Fish Cans" or something like that. Was this "sack" the insulation or was it a double hulled can or some other type of insulation? Did the tops just slide on or push on like a cookie tin... or did they have something that kept the tops in place? The short necks do not look like they are threaded and I don't see any clamps on the cans. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Can Photos This topic came up earlier this week when I posted a listing of prices as they were in 1934 and prices they would be now. One of the items mentioned that the fish would be shipped in cans, as was the custom at the time. Someone had brought up the question of what they were and looked like. After some searching, I found some pictures in a members only area for a Yahoo list. With the kind permission of the photographer, I have posted them in the Photos section of the AquaticLife forum in the album Fish Cans. They will be up for a limited time only, as per my agreement with the photographer. The photographer is a fellow named Alan Mark Fletcher. At 80+ years old, he is the oldest living hobbyist to have worked directly with William T. Innes and Innes's "The Aquarium" magazine. He also collected fish in South America and the Philippines. He is the author of 8 books, 7 of them on fish. If one is interested in the history of the hobby, one may wish to consider joining the AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety here on Yahoo \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48611	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Can Photos

Yes, I was around when Alan (Fletcher) would go on flights to S.A. with Fred Cochue in the 1950's, and would even go up to Paramount Aquarium in Ardsley to see what new stock came in (it was about a 45 minute drive for me). They used a two-engine (propeller-driven) "Cessna-like" plane, not really small but then not excessively large. I don't recall seeing the shipping cans then, only photos of them that showed no detail. Wayne Leibel showed me the can that he gave to Alan a couple of years ago at the NEC Convention, but I don't recall it having any type of clothe covering on it at that time. I believe he got them from an ex-employee (and fellow AHHS member) of Beldt's Aquarium at that time. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48612	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Can Photos

Lenny, Not even close to being around at the time the cans were used. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 12:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Fish Can Photos Were you around in the fish keeping hobby when these were used? If yes, did all the cans have this cloth "sack" around them that looks like it's cinched up around the base of the neck? I only see it on the one can in this one picture. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/recent/1172547210/view Originally, in the earlier thread, you referred to them as "Insulated German Fish Cans" or something like that. Was this "sack" the insulation or was it a double hulled can or some other type of insulation? Did the tops just slide on or push on like a cookie tin... or did they have something that kept the tops in place? The short necks do not look like they are threaded and I don't see any clamps on the cans. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish Can Photos This topic came up earlier this week when I posted a listing of prices as they were in 1934 and prices they would be now. One of the items mentioned that the fish would be shipped in cans, as was the custom at the time. Someone had brought up the question of what they were and looked like. After some searching, I found some pictures in a members only area for a Yahoo list. With the kind permission of the photographer, I have posted them in the Photos section of the AquaticLife forum in the album Fish Cans. They will be up for a limited time only, as per my agreement with the photographer. The photographer is a fellow named Alan Mark Fletcher. At 80+ years old, he is the oldest living hobbyist to have worked directly with William T. Innes and Innes's "The Aquarium" magazine. He also collected fish in South America and the Philippines. He is the author of 8 books, 7 of them on fish. If one is interested in the history of the hobby, one may wish to consider joining the AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety here on Yahoo \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48613	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

The babies don't have any problems eating. They were the first ones out to eat the first mornings I had them. This morning everyone was a little shy. I noticed that someone had been digging and a couple of their rocks had fallen over. They all look OK, just a little jittery. Donna -------------------------------------------------- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:35 PM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > Do you see the babies eating the sinking or other types of food just > fine, or do they have trouble eating it (fitting it into their mouths)? > If they seem to have a little trouble eating any of the food provided > you could probably grind it up a little bit (if you have a mortar and > pestle that's the easiest, but a spoon and a paper plate will work as > well in a pinch). > > Amber > > Donna Camp wrote: >> The babies are about 3/4 of an inch - 1 in long, cute and friendly. >> >> Donna >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:04 PM >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question >> >> >>> How big are the babies? are they newly hatched fry or are they somewhere >>> between babies and adults? >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Donna Camp wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the help. She gave me: Top Fin Freeze Dried Tubifex Worms, >>>> Hikari Cichlid Gold and HBH African Cichlid sinking pellet fish food. >>>> They're all moving around well and to my inexperienced eye look >>>> healthy. >>>> >>>> Donna >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:39 PM >>>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Are they still juvenile fish or are they full grown adults? Oh wait I >>>>> see you said you have adults and babies. >>>>> The babies will need to be fed typically several times a day (they are >>>>> still growing and have a faster metabolism than the adults), the >>>>> adults >>>>> you can feed once a day. But since it's hard to only feed half your >>>>> fish >>>>> the adults will probably eat when you feed the babies too. >>>>> Did this person give you food to feed the babies with, or just the >>>>> sinking fish food? >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> dmctjc wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. >>>>>> I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could >>>>>> have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to >>>>>> tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at >>>>>> this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of >>>>>> the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The >>>>>> fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them >>>>>> nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, >>>>>> according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, >>>>>> both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use >>>>>> small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! >>>>>> >>>>>> Donna >>>>>> >>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48614	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Alien Invasion: Asian Carp Breach Great Lakes Barrier

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/invasive-asian-carp-reach-great-lakes/19529829 (June 24) -- They can grow to 4 feet and 100 pounds and eat 40 percent of their body weight daily. They have knocked jet skiers unconscious. Scientists have been warning of their invasion for years. And now an Asian carp was found this week for the first time beyond the electric barriers meant to keep the invasive species out of the Great Lakes. Scientists fear that the carp will become established in the Great Lakes, starving out sports fish and killing the region's $7 billion fishing industry. "This is simply another sort of fishy, slimy reminder that a permanent solution needs to be right around the corner, not five or 10 years away," Joel Brammeier, president of the Alliance for the Great Lakes, told AOL News today. Illinois Department of Natural Resources / AP An Asian carp was found for the first time beyond electric barriers meant to keep the voracious invasive species out of the Great Lakes, prompting renewed calls for swift action to block their advance. "This finding is extraordinarily disturbing. The bottom line is: It makes it even more urgent for us to build a permanent solution." The bighead Asian carp caught live on Wednesday was discovered by commercial fishermen in a waterway about six miles from Lake Michigan. It was about 3 feet long and weighed just under 20 pounds, according to a news release from the Illinois Department of Natural Resources. "We set out on a fact-finding mission, and we have found what we were looking for," said John Rogner, assistant director of the Illinois DNR. "This is important evidence, and the more information we have about where Asian carp are, the better chance we have of keeping them out of the Great Lakes." Like most invasive species, the Asian carp was introduced with the hope of doing good. Originally introduced to clean catfish ponds and in experiments to filter sewage, the creatures eventually escaped during floods in the 1990s and headed into adjoining rivers. Eventually, they reached the tributaries of the Mississippi River system, which includes the Missouri River, the Ohio River and the Illinois River. There, they have wreaked havoc for years, destroying commercial fishing and damaging recreational water activities. Early last summer, a 22-year-old jet skier in the Illinois River had to be rescued by firefighters when he ran into a leaping fish that knocked him from his machine. In 2004, a woman nearly died after being knocked unconscious by a leaping fish while on her Jet Ski near Peoria. The carp might not have posed any danger to the Great Lakes, as nothing naturally connects the Mississippi River basin to the Great Lakes. But back in the late 1800s, engineers designed a network of canals and rivers to reverse the flow of the Chicago River in order to keep waste from flowing into Lake Michigan. Environmental groups have been pushing to close the locks that connect the Mississippi to the Great Lakes. "This is not something that can happen overnight, but we can get started," Brammeier said. However, a Chicago-based industry coalition called Unlock Our Jobs said the discovery of a single carp can't justify closing the locks -- which spokesman Mark Biel said could damage the region's economy and kill jobs without guaranteeing that carp would be unable to reach the lakes. "A few isolated incidents of Asian carp in this small section of the Illinois Waterway does not mean existing barriers have failed," Biel said in a statement. "While this is sure to result in renewed calls for permanent closure, such drastic action is simply unwarranted given the effectiveness of the electric barriers and the facts on the ground." For now, the Army Corps of Engineers is relying on two electric barriers to hold the carp back. These emit pulses to discourage the fish and shock them with an electrical jolt if they attempt to swim through Brammeier noted that among the biggest concerns of damage to the Great Lakes is the fact that Asian carp love to live in tributaries and near shore areas -- along coasts and riverways. "These are some of the places in the Great Lakes that are most loved by the people who live here and visit here. Places like Green Bay and western Lake Erie are most susceptible to being overrun," he said. "They love the same things the people love. ... Now is the time to do something." . Filed under: Nation, Science, Top Stories = [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48615	From: graham turner	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

Is This donna from the church   this is chantelle turner im am useing my dad msn then   and im am nt going club then next tuesday --- On Sat, 26/6/10, Donna Camp <drollier@...> wrote: From: Donna Camp <drollier@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 26 June, 2010, 15:35 The babies don't have any problems eating. They were the first ones out to eat the first mornings I had them. This morning everyone was a little shy. I noticed that someone had been digging and a couple of their rocks had fallen over. They all look OK, just a little jittery. Donna -------------------------------------------------- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:35 PM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > Do you see the babies eating the sinking or other types of food just > fine, or do they have trouble eating it (fitting it into their mouths)? > If they seem to have a little trouble eating any of the food provided > you could probably grind it up a little bit (if you have a mortar and > pestle that's the easiest, but a spoon and a paper plate will work as > well in a pinch). > > Amber > > Donna Camp wrote: >> The babies are about 3/4 of an inch - 1 in long, cute and friendly. >> >> Donna >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:04 PM >> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question >> >> >>> How big are the babies? are they newly hatched fry or are they somewhere >>> between babies and adults? >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Donna Camp wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the help. She gave me:  Top Fin Freeze Dried Tubifex Worms, >>>> Hikari Cichlid Gold and HBH African Cichlid sinking pellet fish food. >>>> They're all moving around well and to my inexperienced eye look >>>> healthy. >>>> >>>> Donna >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:39 PM >>>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Are they still juvenile fish or are they full grown adults? Oh wait I >>>>> see you said you have adults and babies. >>>>> The babies will need to be fed typically several times a day (they are >>>>> still growing and have a faster metabolism than the adults), the >>>>> adults >>>>> you can feed once a day. But since it's hard to only feed half your >>>>> fish >>>>> the adults will probably eat when you feed the babies too. >>>>> Did this person give you food to feed the babies with, or just the >>>>> sinking fish food? >>>>> >>>>> Amber >>>>> >>>>> dmctjc wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. >>>>>> I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could >>>>>> have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to >>>>>> tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at >>>>>> this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of >>>>>> the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The >>>>>> fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them >>>>>> nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, >>>>>> according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, >>>>>> both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use >>>>>> small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! >>>>>> >>>>>> Donna >>>>>> >> ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48616	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

You might want to pull those rocks out and glue them together with silicone (they will have to dry for over 12 hours after you silicone them together, but then they will not fall over if someone in the tank wants to go rearranging for you). Amber Donna Camp wrote: > The babies don't have any problems eating. They were the first ones out to > eat the first mornings I had them. This morning everyone was a little shy. I > noticed that someone had been digging and a couple of their rocks had fallen > over. They all look OK, just a little jittery. > > Donna > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:35 PM > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > > >> Do you see the babies eating the sinking or other types of food just >> fine, or do they have trouble eating it (fitting it into their mouths)? >> If they seem to have a little trouble eating any of the food provided >> you could probably grind it up a little bit (if you have a mortar and >> pestle that's the easiest, but a spoon and a paper plate will work as >> well in a pinch). >> >> Amber >> >> Donna Camp wrote: >> >>> The babies are about 3/4 of an inch - 1 in long, cute and friendly. >>> >>> Donna >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:04 PM >>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question >>> >>> >>> >>>> How big are the babies? are they newly hatched fry or are they somewhere >>>> between babies and adults? >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> Donna Camp wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the help. She gave me: Top Fin Freeze Dried Tubifex Worms, >>>>> Hikari Cichlid Gold and HBH African Cichlid sinking pellet fish food. >>>>> They're all moving around well and to my inexperienced eye look >>>>> healthy. >>>>> >>>>> Donna >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:39 PM >>>>> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Are they still juvenile fish or are they full grown adults? Oh wait I >>>>>> see you said you have adults and babies. >>>>>> The babies will need to be fed typically several times a day (they are >>>>>> still growing and have a faster metabolism than the adults), the >>>>>> adults >>>>>> you can feed once a day. But since it's hard to only feed half your >>>>>> fish >>>>>> the adults will probably eat when you feed the babies too. >>>>>> Did this person give you food to feed the babies with, or just the >>>>>> sinking fish food? >>>>>> >>>>>> Amber >>>>>> >>>>>> dmctjc wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> A couple of weeks ago I got some cichlids from a woman on Craigslist. >>>>>>> I rearranged the inhabitants of my aquariums so the new fish could >>>>>>> have a 55 gal to themselves. The woman who gave them to me wanted to >>>>>>> tear her tank down, so, she gave me all of her food. My question at >>>>>>> this time is about feeding them. The food all falls to the bottom of >>>>>>> the aquarium. How do I know if I'm feeding them the right amount? The >>>>>>> fish come out to grab some as it's falling down and I also see them >>>>>>> nosing through the gravel at times during the day. The fish are, >>>>>>> according to the woman who gave them to me: 9 electric yellow labs, >>>>>>> both adults and babies; 1 Acei and 1 baby Highfin algae eater. I use >>>>>>> small river rock as the gravel. I did make caves for them to hide in. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice you can offer will be appreciate! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Donna >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48617	From: Donna Camp	Date: 6/26/2010
Subject: Re: New to cichlids with a question

Sorry ... I'm Donna from Upstate New York State in the USA -------------------------------------------------- From: "graham turner" <gjf647@...> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:42 PM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New to cichlids with a question > Is This donna from the church > > this is chantelle turner im am useing my dad msn then > > and im am nt going club then next tuesday

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48618	From: john Lewis	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?

Hello:    It would depend on how aggressive the Convict is.  In my experience I have noticed that unless they are nesting Convicts will usually leave bottom dwelling fish alone.  I've had Convicts ignore them completely.     After introducing them to the tank (first I would rearrange at least some of the tank furniture to make the area less territorial to the Convict) you really need to watch them to see how the convict reacts.  You may find that nothing further needs to be done.     In the case that the Convict starts pushing the Cory Cats around then you could add some dither fish (feeders) to distract the Convict.    Sometimes male Convicts can be very aggressive towards anything smaller than themselves and in that case the Cory Cats would have to be removed.      Good Luck and keep us posted.  I'm sure others here will pass along their ideas as well.    Have a Great Day!!!    "Spawn" ________________________________ From: shrlycat <shrlycat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 11:13:14 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?   Hey, I live in Florida and I love wildlife and the Gulf situation drives me nuts too, but all our ranting and raving isn't going to mount to a hill of beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my question about adding two or three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with a grown male convict cichlid. (Will the convict harass the corys?) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48619	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: general question

Are there any fish that can live with a betta in the same bowl? Thanks steff [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48620	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question

I'd say no because even the betta itself would do better in a larger tank, say 15G with heater and filtration. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grdnfan243@... Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 7:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [AquaticLife] general question Are there any fish that can live with a betta in the same bowl? Thanks steff [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48621	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question

What size bowl? Does it have any filtration? What are the water parameters and temperature like? If you did want to put other things in with a Betta, you would probably need something larger than a bowl. A 10G tank kit from Walmart is pretty cheap and would give you more options, especially if you kept the tank in a room that was warm enough (mid to high 70's) and consistently the same temperature within 1-2F/day but if the room ever gets too cool/cold, it could be detrimental to the health of the fish without a heater in the tank. I don't think the low priced 10G kit from some Walmart stores comes with a heater but it does come with everything else. Last time I looked, the kit was under $50.00... maybe in the $30-$40 range and the kit included everything except the heater and gravel, so it had the tank, filter system and hood/lighting. The lighting may be the tubular incandescent bulbs and I would replace them with tubular compact fluorescent bulbs. I used the 7.5W candelabra type bulbs so two of them gave PLENTY of lighting to a 10G tank. While at Walmart, go to the garden center and get a small bag of pea gravel, which is more natural looking and much less expensive than the colored aquarium gravel. A 10G tank is small enough to be able to sit on most normal furniture so you don't have to buy a stand if you don't want one. Bigger tanks, over 20G, should be on aquarium approved stands as many home furnishings aren't designed to have that much weight on them all the time. Here's my blog's article about "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions... " and there is a section on Betta's and what are known to be suitable tank mates... of course, Betta's don't always read the same stuff we do so every fish can be different. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking Here's a snip from the article... *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include Corydoras, Otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and Rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), Kuhli loaches, Pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the Betta doesn't eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the Betta. This rules out Gourami's, guppies, hatchet fish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the Betta you choose. REMEMBER... the above is IF you have a 10G tank with filtration... now for a Betta bowl. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grdnfan243@... Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 6:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] general question Are there any fish that can live with a betta in the same bowl? Thanks steff

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48622	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question

standard 1/2 gallon betta bowl kit In a message dated 6/27/2010 10:16:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: What size bowl? Does it have any filtration? What are the water parameters and temperature like? If you did want to put other things in with a Betta, you would probably need something larger than a bowl. A 10G tank kit from Walmart is pretty cheap and would give you more options, especially if you kept the tank in a room that was warm enough (mid to high 70's) and consistently the same temperature within 1-2F/day but if the room ever gets too cool/cold, it could be detrimental to the health of the fish without a heater in the tank. I don't think the low priced 10G kit from some Walmart stores comes with a heater but it does come with everything else. Last time I looked, the kit was under $50.00... maybe in the $30-$40 range and the kit included everything except the heater and gravel, so it had the tank, filter system and hood/lighting. The lighting may be the tubular incandescent bulbs and I would replace them with tubular compact fluorescent bulbs. I used the 7.5W candelabra type bulbs so two of them gave PLENTY of lighting to a 10G tank. While at Walmart, go to the garden center and get a small bag of pea gravel, which is more natural looking and much less expensive than the colored aquarium gravel. A 10G tank is small enough to be able to sit on most normal furniture so you don't have to buy a stand if you don't want one. Bigger tanks, over 20G, should be on aquarium approved stands as many home furnishings aren't designed to have that much weight on them all the time. Here's my blog's article about "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions... " and there is a section on Betta's and what are known to be suitable tank mates... of course, Betta's don't always read the same stuff we do so every fish can be different. _http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list. h_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h) tml _http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking_ (http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking) Here's a snip from the article... *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include Corydoras, Otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and Rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), Kuhli loaches, Pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the Betta doesn't eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the Betta. This rules out Gourami's, guppies, hatchet fish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the Betta you choose. REMEMBER... the above is IF you have a 10G tank with filtration... now for a Betta bowl. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 6:26 AM To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] general question Are there any fish that can live with a betta in the same bowl? Thanks steff [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48623	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question

Nothing else can go in there with it. You should be doing daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes), vacuum the gravel up during these PWC's at least twice a week and if you can find some Anacharis or Hornwort (live plants), plant at least a few stalks of it down in to the gravel, either in the middle of the bowl or if it's a vase, on one side, so it doesn't block the Betta's swimming area too much. These are both low-priced (I get a bundle of Anacharis for 50 cents at my LFS), low light, easy to grow plants and they will help naturally filter the water of nitrogenous wastes (ammonia from urine, decaying food, etc.) and provide more oxygen to the water by taking in CO2 and putting out O2 during photosynthesis. The Betta will also like lounging around, laying in the plants for rest and relaxation. DO not over clean or do 100% cleaning or water changes as that change the water parameters too much, too fast, which isn't good for fish... and a 100% break-down clean job just kills off any and all of the good bacteria that will naturally start growing in the gravel and on the plants, glass, decorations, etc. If you can't afford or don't have room for a 10G tank, work on a bigger bowl. They sell bowls as big as 4G that I've seen and that would make a MUCH better bowl compared to the small 1/2 gallon bowls or vases that are often promoted for Betta's. A wider, shallower bowl is better than a tall, deep bowl. If you do upgrade to a 4G bowl, once you get the bowl stabilized and the plants growing OK, you could add a Mystery Snail or a few smaller Nerite snails to be a clean up crew for algae and any missed food. You would still have to do at least weekly PWC's and gravel vacuuming but it would be a much better home for the Betta and a lot easier for you since you won't be having to do daily PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grdnfan243@... Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 9:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] general question standard 1/2 gallon betta bowl kit In a message dated 6/27/2010 10:16:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: What size bowl? Does it have any filtration? What are the water parameters and temperature like? If you did want to put other things in with a Betta, you would probably need something larger than a bowl. A 10G tank kit from Walmart is pretty cheap and would give you more options, especially if you kept the tank in a room that was warm enough (mid to high 70's) and consistently the same temperature within 1-2F/day but if the room ever gets too cool/cold, it could be detrimental to the health of the fish without a heater in the tank. I don't think the low priced 10G kit from some Walmart stores comes with a heater but it does come with everything else. Last time I looked, the kit was under $50.00... maybe in the $30-$40 range and the kit included everything except the heater and gravel, so it had the tank, filter system and hood/lighting. The lighting may be the tubular incandescent bulbs and I would replace them with tubular compact fluorescent bulbs. I used the 7.5W candelabra type bulbs so two of them gave PLENTY of lighting to a 10G tank. While at Walmart, go to the garden center and get a small bag of pea gravel, which is more natural looking and much less expensive than the colored aquarium gravel. A 10G tank is small enough to be able to sit on most normal furniture so you don't have to buy a stand if you don't want one. Bigger tanks, over 20G, should be on aquarium approved stands as many home furnishings aren't designed to have that much weight on them all the time. Here's my blog's article about "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions... " and there is a section on Betta's and what are known to be suitable tank mates... of course, Betta's don't always read the same stuff we do so every fish can be different. http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h tml http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking Here's a snip from the article... *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include Corydoras, Otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and Rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), Kuhli loaches, Pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the Betta doesn't eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the Betta. This rules out Gourami's, guppies, hatchet fish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the Betta you choose. REMEMBER... the above is IF you have a 10G tank with filtration... not for a Betta bowl. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 6:26 AM To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: [AquaticLife] general question Are there any fish that can live with a betta in the same bowl? Thanks steff

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48624	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Hi Everyone,   Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can jam into my dinning room, I would like to own one.  If there is anyone who has one of these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of it because space is a real problem in my home.   Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side measurements.  Some say 16 others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would hold the same water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long.  Who is right, since both are the same length across, 48 inches?  Is the difference in capacity in the "height of the tank"?   If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture and type, glass or acrylic?   Thanks for any help offered,   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48625	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Hey bill, you must have a significant other like I do, LOL. I have 3 fish tanks downstairs and 2 upstairs, and if I could get away with more I'd do it... But hubby says he gets a shop before I get another fish tank, LOL. Have you checked any manufacturer sites for dimensions? I was doing a quick search and noticed that all glass aquariums does not seem to make a bow front, at least not listed on their site. Although by doing a quick search I found these dimensions from 2 different sites: http://www.fishtankshop.com/browseproducts/Uniquarium-3-in-1-75-gallon-Bow-Front-Aquarium.HTML 36"x18"x"30 http://www.myfishtank.com/productdetails.aspx?productID=3208 48" x 18" x 24" Tall So 18" deep seems to be a common size... Also can you make a glass bow front? That seems hard to do as glass would have to be formed into the "bow shape" while it was still hot and you would have to use a very large mold to do this. (hubby is a lampworker so I know a bit about how you form glass into shapes, LOL). All I could find were acrylic and laminate (which I had not heard of before, is this the same as acrylic?). Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can jam into my > dinning room, I would like to own one. If there is anyone who has one > of these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of it > because space is a real problem in my home. > > Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side measurements. Some > say 16 others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would hold > the same water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long. Who is right, since > both are the same length across, 48 inches? Is the difference in > capacity in the "height of the tank"? > > If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture and type, > glass or acrylic? > > Thanks for any help offered, > > Bill > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48626	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

While on this topic, can someone explain why an 80 gallon is cheaper than the 75 gallon bow front? (both are bow front tanks) http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30014 Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can jam into my > dinning room, I would like to own one. If there is anyone who has one > of these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of it > because space is a real problem in my home. > > Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side measurements. Some > say 16 others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would hold > the same water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long. Who is right, since > both are the same length across, 48 inches? Is the difference in > capacity in the "height of the tank"? > > If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture and type, > glass or acrylic? > > Thanks for any help offered, > > Bill > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48627	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question

thank you In a message dated 6/27/2010 2:57:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Nothing else can go in there with it. You should be doing daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes), vacuum the gravel up during these PWC's at least twice a week and if you can find some Anacharis or Hornwort (live plants), plant at least a few stalks of it down in to the gravel, either in the middle of the bowl or if it's a vase, on one side, so it doesn't block the Betta's swimming area too much. These are both low-priced (I get a bundle of Anacharis for 50 cents at my LFS), low light, easy to grow plants and they will help naturally filter the water of nitrogenous wastes (ammonia from urine, decaying food, etc.) and provide more oxygen to the water by taking in CO2 and putting out O2 during photosynthesis. The Betta will also like lounging around, laying in the plants for rest and relaxation. DO not over clean or do 100% cleaning or water changes as that change the water parameters too much, too fast, which isn't good for fish... and a 100% break-down clean job just kills off any and all of the good bacteria that will naturally start growing in the gravel and on the plants, glass, decorations, etc. If you can't afford or don't have room for a 10G tank, work on a bigger bowl. They sell bowls as big as 4G that I've seen and that would make a MUCH better bowl compared to the small 1/2 gallon bowls or vases that are often promoted for Betta's. A wider, shallower bowl is better than a tall, deep bowl. If you do upgrade to a 4G bowl, once you get the bowl stabilized and the plants growing OK, you could add a Mystery Snail or a few smaller Nerite snails to be a clean up crew for algae and any missed food. You would still have to do at least weekly PWC's and gravel vacuuming but it would be a much better home for the Betta and a lot easier for you since you won't be having to do daily PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 9:26 AM To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] general question standard 1/2 gallon betta bowl kit In a message dated 6/27/2010 10:16:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:GoldLenny@...) writes: What size bowl? Does it have any filtration? What are the water parameters and temperature like? If you did want to put other things in with a Betta, you would probably need something larger than a bowl. A 10G tank kit from Walmart is pretty cheap and would give you more options, especially if you kept the tank in a room that was warm enough (mid to high 70's) and consistently the same temperature within 1-2F/day but if the room ever gets too cool/cold, it could be detrimental to the health of the fish without a heater in the tank. I don't think the low priced 10G kit from some Walmart stores comes with a heater but it does come with everything else. Last time I looked, the kit was under $50.00... maybe in the $30-$40 range and the kit included everything except the heater and gravel, so it had the tank, filter system and hood/lighting. The lighting may be the tubular incandescent bulbs and I would replace them with tubular compact fluorescent bulbs. I used the 7.5W candelabra type bulbs so two of them gave PLENTY of lighting to a 10G tank. While at Walmart, go to the garden center and get a small bag of pea gravel, which is more natural looking and much less expensive than the colored aquarium gravel. A 10G tank is small enough to be able to sit on most normal furniture so you don't have to buy a stand if you don't want one. Bigger tanks, over 20G, should be on aquarium approved stands as many home furnishings aren't designed to have that much weight on them all the time. Here's my blog's article about "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions... " and there is a section on Betta's and what are known to be suitable tank mates... of course, Betta's don't always read the same stuff we do so every fish can be different. _http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list. h_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.h) tml _http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking_ (http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking) Here's a snip from the article... *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include Corydoras, Otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and Rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), Kuhli loaches, Pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the Betta doesn't eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the Betta. This rules out Gourami's, guppies, hatchet fish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the Betta you choose. REMEMBER... the above is IF you have a 10G tank with filtration... not for a Betta bowl. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - __http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com__ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com_/) (_http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) ) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: __AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) [mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) ] On Behalf Of __grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:_grdnfan243@...) _ (mailto:_grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) ) Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 6:26 AM To: __AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) Subject: [AquaticLife] general question Are there any fish that can live with a betta in the same bowl? Thanks steff [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48628	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

I cannot give you an answer Amber. But I was shocked to see a price on a Jelly fish aquarium of $16,227.oo ! ! ! I am in the wrong line of work obviously. I think I will just make my own. --Mike G -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Jun 27, 2010 12:42 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? While on this topic, can someone explain why an 80 gallon is cheaper han the 75 gallon bow front? (both are bow front tanks) ttp://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30014 Amber bill 1433 wrote: Hi Everyone, Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can jam into my dinning room, I would like to own one. If there is anyone who has one of these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of it because space is a real problem in my home. Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side measurements. Some say 16 others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would hold the same water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long. Who is right, since both are the same length across, 48 inches? Is the difference in capacity in the "height of the tank"? If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture and type, glass or acrylic? Thanks for any help offered, Bill ----------------------------------- Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can hange your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home age. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which ncludes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you ill still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! roups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48629	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Wow, that's spendy! I don't think I'll ever be able to afford a jelly fish aquarium either, LOL. Hey bill have you considered a corner fish tank, to save more space? http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 Amber Deenerz@... wrote: > > > > I cannot give you an answer Amber. But I was shocked to see a price on > a Jelly fish aquarium of $16,227.oo ! ! ! > > I am in the wrong line of work obviously. > > I think I will just make my own. > > --Mike G > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Jun 27, 2010 12:42 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > > While on this topic, can someone explain why an 80 gallon is cheaper > han the 75 gallon bow front? (both are bow front tanks) > ttp://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30014 > Amber > bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can jam into my > dinning room, I would like to own one. If there is anyone who has one > of these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of it > because space is a real problem in my home. > > Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side measurements. Some > say 16 others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would hold > the same water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long. Who is right, since > both are the same length across, 48 inches? Is the difference in > capacity in the "height of the tank"? > > If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture and type, > glass or acrylic? > > Thanks for any help offered, > > Bill > > ----------------------------------- > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the > eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > hange your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > age. > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > ncludes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > ill still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > roups Links > Individual Email | Traditional > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48630	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

The 72G is a 36" x 18" footprint and 30" tall. TALL tanks have to use thicker glass or rather acrylic since it's an acrylic tank, to handle the added water pressure which is the reason for the higher cost. Otherwise, thinner glass/acrylic would "bow" out much more than their planned bow. See further down for more info about glass/acrylic thickness and how three times thicker glass/acrylic would be needed on a 30" tall tank compared to shorter height tanks. This thicker glass/acrylic would cost MUCH more than the thinner stuff used on shallower tanks. As far as the measurements, because of the bow front, some might measure the actual end sides while others might measure the front-to-back measurement at the bow, in the middle of the tank, which would be a larger measurement... due to the bow... and might account for why you see 16" and/or 18" for the "side" measurements. The other difference for why an acrylic tank with the same footprint, will likely hold more water than a glass tank with the same exact footprint is that the inside measurements of the acrylic tank will be larger than the glass tank since the glass is going to be considerably thicker than acrylic. The external measurements are really only a guideline for tank volume. To really know the volume, you should take inside measurements. There is also the “fudge factor” where tanks are almost always over stated for their water volume. My 65G acrylic actually only holds 63.5G if filled to the top. The same goes for virtually every other tank I’ve ever seen. My 65G acrylic tank, from http://www.GlassCages.com, (48" x 18" footprint x 17" tall) has acrylic that is probably around 1/8" (3mm) thick... maybe even only 2mm. Including the packaging and box, it weighed less than 25 pounds when I got it. When I saw the FEDEX Ground guy carrying this HUGE box up my front steps, I thought he must be the HULK... and then when he handed me the 5’ x 2’ x 2’ box, I thought I got ripped off because it felt like an empty box. A comparable glass tank would have weighed well over 100 pounds... close to 150 pounds... due to the much thicker (and heavier) glass. I've seen DIY Tank Building articles that had charts of glass thickness recommendations depending on how tall the tank was going to be but it's not something I saved.... at least it's not jumping out at me in my Favorites folder for DIY stuff. I just Googled and found this page, http://www.austinglass.com.au/aquariums.html, with this SNIP... Water Height and Glass thickness. NOTE !!! THE GLASS THICKNESS DEPENDS ON THE HEIGHT, NOT THE LENGTH. In determining the dimensions and glass thickness of your aquarium, particular attention must be paid to the height of the water. The pressure on the joins where the sides meet the base increases dramatically with height. If you keep the height to the lowest acceptable, you will reduce the risk of a blow out. This does not mean you cannot have a tall tank, but it does create extra engineering problems. As a guide, I recommend the water height should be no more than: (English measurements added by Lenny) 500 mm for 6mm glass, (20” tall for 1/4" glass) 600 mm for 8mm thick glass, (25” tall for 5/16" glass) 700 mm for 10mm etc. (30" tall would need at least 3/8" thick glass) As you will probably fill the tank to within 50mm (2”) of the top, this still provides for a fairly tall tank with no special requirements. If you are planning a tall tank, say over 700mm, (30") the main things to check thoroughly are glass thickness, cover strips for the corners, and extra bracing where the base meets the sides. At the end of this tutorial there is a section on the tank stand and you should look at making the stand with extra support on the sides to cope with the high water pressure that comes with having a tall tank. AGAIN!!! THE GLASS THICKNESS DEPENDS ON THE HEIGHT, NOT THE LENGTH because you will be fitting bracing to the length to take care of the sides bowing out. (END SNIP) This chart on http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=42 has the English and Metric thicknesses for comparison. Click on the above link if the chart info below doesn't email properly. It looks fine on my end. .100 plate glass 2.5 mm Regular Plate Glass $1 1/8 Plate Glass 3mm Regular Plate Glass $1 ¼ Plate Glass 6mm Regular Plate Glass $3 3/8 Plate Glass 10mm Regular Plate Glass $6 ½ Plate Glass 12mm Regular Plate Glass $9 1/4 LIG Starphire Low Iron Glass $10 3/8 LIG Starphire Low Iron Glass $12 ½ LIG Starphire Low Iron Glass $15 3/4 Plate Glass Regular Plate Glass $21 3/4 LIG Starphire Low Iron Glass $32 Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or add information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? While on this topic, can someone explain why an 80 gallon is cheaper than the 75 gallon bow front? (both are bow front tanks) http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30014 Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can jam into my > dinning room, I would like to own one. If there is anyone who has one > of these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of it > because space is a real problem in my home. > > Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side measurements. Some > say 16 others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would hold > the same water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long. Who is right, since > both are the same length across, 48 inches? Is the difference in > capacity in the "height of the tank"? > > If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture and type, > glass or acrylic? > > Thanks for any help offered, > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48631	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question

I should have added that Walmart's sell bare 10G tanks for around $10.00... which might be cheaper than a 4G bowl at a pet store. That would be a better investment for you and you could add other features like a filter, lighting, etc., as you want or need... but even if you just go with the 10G tank, which would be OK for a Betta since they live in slow moving or stagnant waters in the wild, that would make for a MUCH better home than the .5G bowl/vase. Of course, if space is an issue, then the 4G bowl might be the least expensive route. If money is really an issue, then check out a local deli or deli counter at a grocery store and ask them for one of their BIG pickle or pig's feet jars. They are usually at least a gallon and sometimes bigger. They should give it to you for free once it's empty. That would double the water volume for your Betta and make things twice as good for the Betta and half as much maintenance for you. Still add some live plants regardless of what you do since that would be one of the best things for your Betta... and you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or add information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of grdnfan243@... Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] general question thank you In a message dated 6/27/2010 2:57:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: Nothing else can go in there with it. You should be doing daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes), vacuum the gravel up during these PWC's at least twice a week and if you can find some Anacharis or Hornwort (live plants), plant at least a few stalks of it down in to the gravel, either in the middle of the bowl or if it's a vase, on one side, so it doesn't block the Betta's swimming area too much. These are both low-priced (I get a bundle of Anacharis for 50 cents at my LFS), low light, easy to grow plants and they will help naturally filter the water of nitrogenous wastes (ammonia from urine, decaying food, etc.) and provide more oxygen to the water by taking in CO2 and putting out O2 during photosynthesis. The Betta will also like lounging around, laying in the plants for rest and relaxation. DO not over clean or do 100% cleaning or water changes as that change the water parameters too much, too fast, which isn't good for fish... and a 100% break-down clean job just kills off any and all of the good bacteria that will naturally start growing in the gravel and on the plants, glass, decorations, etc. If you can't afford or don't have room for a 10G tank, work on a bigger bowl. They sell bowls as big as 4G that I've seen and that would make a MUCH better bowl compared to the small 1/2 gallon bowls or vases that are often promoted for Betta's. A wider, shallower bowl is better than a tall, deep bowl. If you do upgrade to a 4G bowl, once you get the bowl stabilized and the plants growing OK, you could add a Mystery Snail or a few smaller Nerite snails to be a clean up crew for algae and any missed food. You would still have to do at least weekly PWC's and gravel vacuuming but it would be a much better home for the Betta and a lot easier for you since you won't be having to do daily PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 9:26 AM To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] general question standard 1/2 gallon betta bowl kit In a message dated 6/27/2010 10:16:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:GoldLenny@...) writes: What size bowl? Does it have any filtration? What are the water parameters and temperature like? If you did want to put other things in with a Betta, you would probably need something larger than a bowl. A 10G tank kit from Walmart is pretty cheap and would give you more options, especially if you kept the tank in a room that was warm enough (mid to high 70's) and consistently the same temperature within 1-2F/day but if the room ever gets too cool/cold, it could be detrimental to the health of the fish without a heater in the tank. I don't think the low priced 10G kit from some Walmart stores comes with a heater but it does come with everything else. Last time I looked, the kit was under $50.00... maybe in the $30-$40 range and the kit included everything except the heater and gravel, so it had the tank, filter system and hood/lighting. The lighting may be the tubular incandescent bulbs and I would replace them with tubular compact fluorescent bulbs. I used the 7.5W candelabra type bulbs so two of them gave PLENTY of lighting to a 10G tank. While at Walmart, go to the garden center and get a small bag of pea gravel, which is more natural looking and much less expensive than the colored aquarium gravel. A 10G tank is small enough to be able to sit on most normal furniture so you don't have to buy a stand if you don't want one. Bigger tanks, over 20G, should be on aquarium approved stands as many home furnishings aren't designed to have that much weight on them all the time. Here's my blog's article about "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions... " and there is a section on Betta's and what are known to be suitable tank mates... of course, Betta's don't always read the same stuff we do so every fish can be different. _http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list. h_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list. h) tml _http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking_ (http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking) Here's a snip from the article... *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include Corydoras, Otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and Rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), Kuhli loaches, Pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the Betta doesn't eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the Betta. This rules out Gourami's, guppies, hatchet fish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the Betta you choose. REMEMBER... the above is IF you have a 10G tank with filtration... not for a Betta bowl. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - __http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com__ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com_/) (_http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) ) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: __AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) [mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) ] On Behalf Of __grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:_grdnfan243@...) _ (mailto:_grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) ) Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 6:26 AM To: __AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) Subject: [AquaticLife] general question Are there any fish that can live with a betta in the same bowl? Thanks steff

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48632	From: grdnfan243@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: general question

thank you In a message dated 6/27/2010 5:15:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GoldLenny@... writes: I should have added that Walmart's sell bare 10G tanks for around $10.00... which might be cheaper than a 4G bowl at a pet store. That would be a better investment for you and you could add other features like a filter, lighting, etc., as you want or need... but even if you just go with the 10G tank, which would be OK for a Betta since they live in slow moving or stagnant waters in the wild, that would make for a MUCH better home than the .5G bowl/vase. Of course, if space is an issue, then the 4G bowl might be the least expensive route. If money is really an issue, then check out a local deli or deli counter at a grocery store and ask them for one of their BIG pickle or pig's feet jars. They are usually at least a gallon and sometimes bigger. They should give it to you for free once it's empty. That would double the water volume for your Betta and make things twice as good for the Betta and half as much maintenance for you. Still add some live plants regardless of what you do since that would be one of the best things for your Betta... and you. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - _http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or add information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of _grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:17 PM To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] general question thank you In a message dated 6/27/2010 2:57:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:GoldLenny@...) writes: Nothing else can go in there with it. You should be doing daily 25% PWC's (partial water changes), vacuum the gravel up during these PWC's at least twice a week and if you can find some Anacharis or Hornwort (live plants), plant at least a few stalks of it down in to the gravel, either in the middle of the bowl or if it's a vase, on one side, so it doesn't block the Betta's swimming area too much. These are both low-priced (I get a bundle of Anacharis for 50 cents at my LFS), low light, easy to grow plants and they will help naturally filter the water of nitrogenous wastes (ammonia from urine, decaying food, etc.) and provide more oxygen to the water by taking in CO2 and putting out O2 during photosynthesis. The Betta will also like lounging around, laying in the plants for rest and relaxation. DO not over clean or do 100% cleaning or water changes as that change the water parameters too much, too fast, which isn't good for fish... and a 100% break-down clean job just kills off any and all of the good bacteria that will naturally start growing in the gravel and on the plants, glass, decorations, etc. If you can't afford or don't have room for a 10G tank, work on a bigger bowl. They sell bowls as big as 4G that I've seen and that would make a MUCH better bowl compared to the small 1/2 gallon bowls or vases that are often promoted for Betta's. A wider, shallower bowl is better than a tall, deep bowl. If you do upgrade to a 4G bowl, once you get the bowl stabilized and the plants growing OK, you could add a Mystery Snail or a few smaller Nerite snails to be a clean up crew for algae and any missed food. You would still have to do at least weekly PWC's and gravel vacuuming but it would be a much better home for the Betta and a lot easier for you since you won't be having to do daily PWC's. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - __http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com__ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com_/) (_http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) ) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: __AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) [mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) ] On Behalf Of __grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:_grdnfan243@...) _ (mailto:_grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) ) Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 9:26 AM To: __AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] general question standard 1/2 gallon betta bowl kit In a message dated 6/27/2010 10:16:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, __GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:_GoldLenny@...) _ (mailto:_GoldLenny@..._ (mailto:GoldLenny@...) ) writes: What size bowl? Does it have any filtration? What are the water parameters and temperature like? If you did want to put other things in with a Betta, you would probably need something larger than a bowl. A 10G tank kit from Walmart is pretty cheap and would give you more options, especially if you kept the tank in a room that was warm enough (mid to high 70's) and consistently the same temperature within 1-2F/day but if the room ever gets too cool/cold, it could be detrimental to the health of the fish without a heater in the tank. I don't think the low priced 10G kit from some Walmart stores comes with a heater but it does come with everything else. Last time I looked, the kit was under $50.00... maybe in the $30-$40 range and the kit included everything except the heater and gravel, so it had the tank, filter system and hood/lighting. The lighting may be the tubular incandescent bulbs and I would replace them with tubular compact fluorescent bulbs. I used the 7.5W candelabra type bulbs so two of them gave PLENTY of lighting to a 10G tank. While at Walmart, go to the garden center and get a small bag of pea gravel, which is more natural looking and much less expensive than the colored aquarium gravel. A 10G tank is small enough to be able to sit on most normal furniture so you don't have to buy a stand if you don't want one. Bigger tanks, over 20G, should be on aquarium approved stands as many home furnishings aren't designed to have that much weight on them all the time. Here's my blog's article about "Hailey's 10 Gallon Tank Stocking Suggestions... " and there is a section on Betta's and what are known to be suitable tank mates... of course, Betta's don't always read the same stuff we do so every fish can be different. __http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list ._ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.) h_ (_http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list ._ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/2007/03/haileys-10-gallon-tank-stocking-list.) h) tml __http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking__ (http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking_) (_http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking_ (http://tinyurl.com/10-Gallon-Stocking) ) Here's a snip from the article... *Bettas can be particularly tricky to keep with other fish, so I thought it best to elaborate on the subject of proper tank mates for bettas. Some good tank mates for bettas include Corydoras, Otocinclus, small, peaceful tetras and Rasboras like the ones on this list (some others may not be appropriate), Kuhli loaches, Pencilfish, snails, African dwarf frogs (only one in a 10 gallon), and occasionally shrimp, if the Betta doesn't eat them. Avoid fish of the same color or shape (especially with long fins), fast swimmers (which I didn't put on the list anyway because they don't do well in 10 gallon tanks), labyrinth fish, or fish which occupy the top of the tank like the Betta. This rules out Gourami's, guppies, hatchet fish, any species of long finned tetras, and various other fish depending on the color of the Betta you choose. REMEMBER... the above is IF you have a 10G tank with filtration... not for a Betta bowl. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - ___http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com___ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com__/) (_http://goldlenny.blogspot.com_/_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com_/) ) (__http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/__ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/_) (_http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/_ (http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/) ) ) (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or added information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: ___AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) _ (mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) ) [mailto:___AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) _ (mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) ) ] On Behalf Of ___grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:__grdnfan243@...) _ (mailto:__grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:_grdnfan243@...) ) _ (mailto:__grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:_grdnfan243@...) _ (mailto:_grdnfan243@..._ (mailto:grdnfan243@...) ) ) Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 6:26 AM To: ___AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) _ (mailto:__AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) ) Subject: [AquaticLife] general question Are there any fish that can live with a betta in the same bowl? Thanks steff [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48633	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Bill, Aequeon lists their 72 gallon bow tank at 48 x 18 x 22. At Fishtanksdirect, the 72 gallon bow is listed as 48x18x20. For reference, glasscages.com lists an acrylic 75 gallon at 48 x 18 x 21 (tall) and 72 x 18 x 13 (long). Based on that info, I'd say the 18" measurement is the standard width. This is not, of course, to definitively say that there are no 16" width tanks that are called 72 bow fronts. Do keep in mind that when a tank is measured and sold at a certain gallon size, it is not necessarily going to hold the number of gallons as is claimed on the label, even before you add substrate rocks, wood, and etc. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:28 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? Hi Everyone,   Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can jam into my dinning room, I would like to own one.  If there is anyone who has one of these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of it because space is a real problem in my home.   Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side measurements.  Some say 16 others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would hold the same water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long.  Who is right, since both are the same length across, 48 inches?  Is the difference in capacity in the "height of the tank"?   If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture and type, glass or acrylic?   Thanks for any help offered,   Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Amber, Of all the sites I looked at today to help bill out, the site you cite is the only one offering an 80 gallon bow tank. The lower price could mean that the 80 is a victim of non-popularity, and it is a close out price just to get rid of the remaining stock. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? While on this topic, can someone explain why an 80 gallon is cheaper than the 75 gallon bow front? (both are bow front tanks) http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30014 Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can jam into my > dinning room, I would like to own one. If there is anyone who has one > of these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of it > because space is a real problem in my home. > > Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side measurements. Some > say 16 others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would hold > the same water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long. Who is right, since > both are the same length across, 48 inches? Is the difference in > capacity in the "height of the tank"? > > If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture and type, > glass or acrylic? > > Thanks for any help offered, > > Bill > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48635	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Nope... it's the *tallness* of the tank. Just like, on the same page, the 100G 24" tall tank is cheaper than the 90G 30" tall tank. The taller tank needs a thicker glass/acrylic, which costs more. That said... all of them prices are MUCH MORE than acrylic tanks at GlassCages.com, which are at least 1/2 those prices.... granted, they don't have acrylic bow fronts. That's a lot of extra money for a bowing front. Just take off the top front brace and you'll have a bowing front. LOL I see my 65G acrylic tank has gone up in price since 2004 but it's still only $188.00 and is their best priced tank in the 60-70G volume range... and $150.00+ cheaper than all the other tanks in the 60-70G volume range. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or add information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 5:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? Amber, Of all the sites I looked at today to help bill out, the site you cite is the only one offering an 80 gallon bow tank. The lower price could mean that the 80 is a victim of non-popularity, and it is a close out price just to get rid of the remaining stock. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? While on this topic, can someone explain why an 80 gallon is cheaper than the 75 gallon bow front? (both are bow front tanks) http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30014 Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can jam into my > dinning room, I would like to own one. If there is anyone who has one > of these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of it > because space is a real problem in my home. > > Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side measurements. Some > say 16 others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would hold > the same water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long. Who is right, since > both are the same length across, 48 inches? Is the difference in > capacity in the "height of the tank"? > > If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture and type, > glass or acrylic? > > Thanks for any help offered, > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48636	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Thanks Amber, Lenny and \\Steve//, I was hoping wrong, in that they might be 16" wide but I should have known. As it is, with this information, it knocks the bow-front's out of the box as to much floor space, or more accurately coming away from the wall space, would be lost in relation to the rest of the room. Even if using a canister filter, I could not hug the wall that much. So it looks like I have only three choices left, either Amber's idea of considering a straight forward "corner" type of tank, or a standard 55-gallon, or call Glass Cages and have them build a custom job, stand by for the cost on that one! Thanks again everyone, Bill --- On Sun, 6/27/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 6:19 PM > Bill, > > Aequeon lists their 72 gallon bow tank at 48 x 18 x 22. > > At Fishtanksdirect, the 72 gallon bow is listed as > 48x18x20. > > For reference, glasscages.com lists an acrylic 75 gallon at > 48 x 18 x 21 > (tall) and 72 x 18 x 13 (long). > > Based on that info, I'd say the 18" measurement is the > standard width. This > is not, of course, to definitively say that there are no > 16" width tanks > that are called 72 bow fronts. Do keep in mind that when a > tank is measured > and sold at a certain gallon size, it is not necessarily > going to hold the > number of gallons as is claimed on the label, even before > you add substrate > rocks, wood, and etc. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:28 PM > To: AquaticLife > Subject: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the > truth? > > Hi Everyone, >   > Thinking that this is the largest possible tank that I can > jam into my > dinning room, I would like to own one.  If there is anyone > who has one of > these tanks, I would like to know the exact measurements of > it because space > is a real problem in my home. >   > Searching the Net, I am getting all kinds of side > measurements.  Some say 16 > others 18 inches but if this were the case the tank would > hold the same > water as a standard 75 at 48 inches long.  Who is right, > since both are the > same length across, 48 inches?  Is the difference in > capacity in the "height > of the tank"? >   > If possible would you also mention the tanks manufacture > and type, glass or > acrylic? >   > Thanks for any help offered, >   > Bill >   > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48637	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 6/27/2010
Subject: Whale Shark Records from the United Arab Emirates between 1989-2009

Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) Records from the United Arab Emirates between 1989 - 2009. By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. Reference: Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) Records from the United Arab Emirates between 1989 - 2009. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Twenty-seventh Year, Number 94, October 2009, Shawal 1430 AH. pp. 1-28. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://whale-shark.webs.com/whalesharkinemirates.htm While I was writing my articles about the presence of Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) in Palestine and Kuwait (Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, 2007), I searched the Internet for articles, references and photos. I saw many websites mentioning the presence of Whale Sharks in the Waters of the United Arab Emirates. The Arabic common name of the Whale Shark is Al-Qirsh Al-Hout. The Whale Shark local name in the United Arab Emirates is Al-Djer. Jebel Ali, Emirate of Dubai, 10. September 1989 : A seven ton whale shark carcass was hauled out of the sea at Jebel Ali on 10th September, 1989. The creature seems to have died after ingesting natural toxic matter, possibly red-coloured algae, according to Tony Woodward, author of the recently-published "The Living Seas". The whale shark is rare in the Arabian Gulf, preferring the greater depths of the Indian Ocean where it scoops up plankton in its wide-open mouth (Emirates Natural History Group, 1989). Dubai Marina, Dubai, 24. September 2003 : The man-made channel at Dubai Marina was recently visited by a young but large whale shark, which stayed in the waters for over three days before returning to the ocean. This is the second time in less than a month when the particular species of fish was sighted in the waters of Dubai. Mohammed Abdul Rahman Hassan, Head of the Marine Environment and Sanctuaries Unit of the Environment Protection and Safety Section (EPSS) at Dubai Municipality, said that his unit swung into action and reached the location immediately after it was alerted of the sighting. "We had to make sure that the fish was not injured. Most of the large species of fish and whales that enter shallow areas get injured and are in bad shape, but this particular whale shark was in fine condition," he commented. The sight of the fish, estimated by experts to be 4.5 to 5 meters long and weighing several hundred kilos, attracted large crowds for the three days that it swam around in the area (Zaigham Ali Mirza, Khaleej Times, 2003). Dubai Marina, Dubai, 16. July 2005 : A whale shark which became trapped at Dubai Marina on Saturday 16.07.2005 morning has made its own way out to the open sea after various attempts to guide it back out to the Arabian Gulf failed. Security staff at the marina spotted the shark at around 7.00 a.m. swimming in the waters close to Spinneys Supermarket. Police and coastguard boats created sound barriers with their launches to try and drive the shark away but after a few attempts, it was decided to try and put the shark in a net and drag it out to sea. The net was deemed too small, however, and Dubai police have now decided to let the whale shark finds its own way out. Captain Hussain Al Rahoomi, rescue director in-charge at Dubai police, said: "We have decided to leave the shark inside the harbour because it is difficult to drive it outside. He will find his own way out. He is harmless so he can stay, it doesn't matter if he is inside or outside the marina. I hope when he does leave no fishermen will be waiting for him." Redha Salman, head of environmental protection and safety section at Dubai Municipality, said: "It is unusual but we have seen two cases so far. A little over a year ago a whale shark was trapped here. We do not want to disturb it, otherwise they panic, and reports say he is swimming calmly. Usually they stay in a channel because they are comfortable and have found a feeding source." Shaun Lenehan, Senior Environmental Scientist from Nakheel Properties said whale sharks are docile and feed on plankton and occasionally fish. "The scientific name for the Whale Shark at the marina is Rhincodon typus. They grow to 15 meters, weigh up to 15 tonnes and feed primarily on plankton." According to marine scientist Laura Bates, who is working in Dubai and saw the shark at Dubai Marina, the whale shark can grow to about 14 meters. "The one today was a juvenile. Whale sharks are the biggest fish in the world and are harmless to humans. Usually they're about half a meter in length at birth, so this one wasn't that young, but certainly not as big as some of the adults that have been seen. It had a couple of large remora under its belly sucker fish that attach and cruise along for the ride." Bates said the mouth extends the whole width of the flattened head. Whale sharks feed on plankton and small fish (Emmanuelle Landais and Piers Grimley Evans, Gulf News, 17. July 2005). Jimmy Grewal (2005) said that he saw the last whale shark about twenty years ago when a full grown specimen washed up dead on one of the beaches in Dubai. Dubai Marina, Dubai, 25. June 2006 : Dubai Residents and workers at Dubai Marina were stunned to see a whale shark swimming through the bay in the morning. The animal, which was about five meters long, attracted a crowd of onlookers as it swam close to the barriers at the edge of the pedestrian walkways. Among those lucky enough to see the creature, thought to be a juvenile because of its modest size, was Ania Sikora from Australia, who spotted it from her 14th floor flat. "It was swimming around the bay for about four hours. It was amazing. It was swimming in a very graceful way I felt like jumping in and having a swim with it," she said. The first sighting was reported at 8.00 a.m. and Sikora said she last saw the animal at about midday. Residents said they were unsure if the animal had escaped back into the Arabian Gulf. This is not the first time that a whale shark has been seen in Dubai Marina, with Gulf News reporting in November on the arrival of a four-meter-long specimen. About a year before this there was another sighting. Ebrahim Al Zu'bi, Director of the Environment and Research Department at Emirates Diving Association, said he was unsure why they had visited the marina. He said he was ready to help rescue the shark and lead it out to open waters if it was seen in the marina bay again. He added: "They are harmless creatures they are very interesting and amazing for all sea lovers." (Daniel Bardsley, Gulf News, 2006). Port Zayed, Abu Dhabi, 07. February 2007 : A striking whale shark, spotted along the quay at Port Zayed in Abu Dhabi on 07.02.2007, drew a small crowd of admirers and environmental enthusiasts - and one onlooker got into the water to try to swim with it. However, the four-meter long shark, with its characteristic white spots, was quick to shy away. Mohana Rao, a marketing executive who alerted Gulf News about the sighting, was in the Port Zayed area around 1.00 p.m. when she heard about the gentle giant. "It is such a beautiful animal and I wanted to help because I was not sure if it needed any assistance," Rao told Gulf News. "It has been swimming back and forth along the quay for a while now." Dr. Thabit Zahran, director of the marine environment research centre at the Environment Agency Abu Dhabi (EAD), says that it is not unusual for the whale to be found in UAE waters at this time of year. "Whale sharks are normally found in the Gulf, and they are a threatened species," explained Dr. Zahran. "They feed on plankton, which is found abundantly in ports due to the eutrophication process (results in nutrient-rich environments that support a dense plant population). So maybe this is why this whale was attracted to the area." Dr. Zahran added that the whale may have deliberately made its way to the port to feed, but that it most likely lost its way. "Sometimes we have to help them to make their way out. We will monitor the situation today and if it appears to be in danger, we will try to lead it out, although they can be quite stubborn." (Rania Habib and Mohammad Shamseddine, Staff Reporters, Gulf News, 2007). Palm Jumeirah, Dubai, (no exact date: probably 2007 or 2008) : Gentle Giant Visits Palm Jumeirah : This week a resident of Frond P on Palm Jumeirah photograph a juvenile Whale Shark swimming in the waters in front of their home. The whale shark (Rhincodon typus) grows up to 15 meters in length and can weigh up to 20 tonnes. The specimen seen in the waters of Palm Jumeirah was only 3.5 m in length so is really only a baby still. The whale shark only eats plankton and is harmless to humans. However, this gentle giant can be a bit clumsy with its massive bulk so it is best to stay out of its way. Due to its scarcity, this species is listed as vulnerable under the International Union for the Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN) and, as such, it is protected by law. With their gentle nature and phenomenal size, whale sharks are a tourist attraction around the world and people will pay a handsome sum to see them. However, the residents of Palm Jumeirah need only look out of their living room window and they can see one of the wonders of the marine world (The Palm Specialists, no exact date, probably 2007 or 2008). Jebel Ali, Emirate of Dubai, 27. August 2008 : "Sammy" or "Sheikha", The Palm Jumeirah Atlantis Hotel Whale Shark: A whale shark rescued off the coast of Jebel Ali and placed in the Palm Jumeirah Atlantis hotel aquarium will eventually be tagged and released. Atlantis announced the capture of the juvenile whale shark recently which was found in shallow waters, fatigued and disorientated. The 4 meter long whale shark has been placed in the 11 million liter Ambassador Lagoon - one of the biggest aquariums in the world. According to Ibrahim Al Zu'bi, environmental advisor with the Emirates Diving Association, the whale shark will offer great opportunities for learning and awareness but should not be kept in the aquarium long term. "It should be released as soon as possible. Atlantis has plans to tag it and let it go. Stone structures and ornaments were removed from the aquarium to give it some space. It is a good thing that we have experts now that can handle situations like this," he said. Al Zu'bi added that previously the Emirates Diving Association (EDA) received many calls about whale sharks that get disorientated and find their way to the Arabian Gulf. "Not much is known about whale sharks by the way so this will raise awareness for the fish. It is protected by CITES (Convention for the International Trade of Endangered Species) so the hotel should inform them of the whale shark," he said. Due to the high sea temperature and salinity of the water where the whale shark was found, the decision was made to transport the whale shark to Atlantis, The Palm for medical care and observation. A custom-made transport unit with a highly advanced marine life transport system was used to ensure the safety and well-being of the animal. Since the arrival of the whale shark, the animal has been monitored 24 hours a day, including gathering extensive data apparently on swim patterns, feeding and behaviours. The Fish Husbandry team is in constant contact with experts in the whale shark community sharing data and behaviours. The health and well-being of all marine life is the number one priority at Atlantis, the hotel said in a statement. Alan Leibman, President and Managing Director of Atlantis said, "The whale shark is an animal about which little is known and we hope that we can add to the research and data that is available. Aquariums and marine habitats have been the key to education about our oceans and the animals that live in them. Education, conservation and research go hand in hand to benefit all marine life." It is unknown how long Atlantis plan to keep the whale shark for (Emmanuelle Landais, Gulf News, 2008). After 18 months in captivity, "Sammy" the whale shark has been released back into the waters of the Arabian Gulf on 18 March 2010. The release comes almost a year after a popular "Gulf News Newspaper" led campaign had thousands of Dubai residents calling for the hotel to release "Sammy". The campaign involved badges, bumper stickers, jingles and a Facebook group that attracted several thousand members (Emmanuelle Landais, Gulf News, 2010). Atlantis Hotel issued a press release stating that the mammal had already been released. "After several months of planning, Atlantis, The Palm in Dubai has returned a female whale shark to the waters of the Arabian Gulf from where she was rescued. The Atlantis Fish Husbandry Team utilized their experience and skill to save the animal in compliance with all CITIES regulations." Whale sharks are listed in appendix 2 of the Convention on International Trade of Endangered Species (CITES), which stipulates that they can only be held for scientific purposes provided that it does not harm the survival of the species. A U.A.E. delegation is attending the CITES conference currently taking place in Doha. Earlier, Ali Bin Saqr Al Suwaidi, president and founder of the Emirates Marine Environment Group (EMEG) had confirmed that the whale shark was set to be released. "An animal of this size cannot be kept in captivity for such a long time," he said. The animal was being transported in a boat carrying a sufficient amount of water to allow "Sammy" to swim. According to Atlantis, the hotel had been "preparing the animal for return to the ocean" during the time that it was being held. "The seasonal elements affecting water temperature, salinity and migratory patterns were perfect for enhancing her survival in the open ocean," said the hotel. Environmentalists had been appalled when "Sammy" was first captured because it is a female and a juvenile. Whale sharks are categorized as "vulnerable" under the International Union for Conservation of Nature red list of threatened species. Al Suwaidi said that EMEG had increasingly been campaigning for Sammy's release during the past few months. "We will continue to track her progress through a tagging programme co-developed with The Mote Marine Laboratory in Florida (the world's largest scientific research organization dedicated to the study of sharks and their relatives)," said Steve Kaiser, Vice President, Marine and Science Engineering. "This will give us the opportunity to continue to learn from her and share that research within the whale shark community." (Emmanuelle Landais, Gulf News, 2010). The month-long travels of a young female whale shark satellite-tagged in March 2010 by the Fish Husbandry Team at Atlantis, The Palm in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, have been mapped by Mote Marine Laboratory scientists. The shark's tracking device detached 33 days after the successful tagging and release near the resort. The 4.6-meter long female shark "Sammy" rescued and rehabilitated by Atlantis Hotel is believed to be the first whale shark tracked via satellite tag in the Arabian Gulf. The whale shark "Sammy" showed normal swimming behavior during her month-long tracking period, including diving and surfacing regularly. Her satellite tag, programmed to "pop up" and float to the surface 100 days after her tagging and release, detached two months early on April 20, 2010. Reasons for the premature pop-up are unknown, but it is not unusual for satellite tags to come off early. After Atlantis staff tagged and released her off Dubai, the whale shark took a mostly westward path through the Arabian Gulf, traveling south of Iran and then curving southward to waters off the coast of Qatar, ending up about 348 km west of her starting point. The tag also measured water temperature and depth, showing that the whale shark experienced temperatures of between 22.6 and 26.8 degrees Celsius, came to the surface at least once each day, and dove as deep as 72 meters. (The Arabian Gulf's average depth is 50 meters and its maximum depth is 90 meter.). "That's normal behavior similar to what we've observed in other whale sharks," Dr. Robert Hueter, Director of Mote's Center for Shark Research, said. Atlantis Hotel staff members tagged the whale shark with guidance from Mote scientists who have satellite-tagged 30 other whale sharks in the wild including two recently tagged in the Gulf of Mexico (Longboat Key News, 2010). Martini Rock, Emirate of Fujairah, 06. June 2009 : A Whale Shark encounter near the Martini Rock, Emirate of Fujairah, Gulf of Oman. Divers Adrian Steyn and Marty Robinson . See the film of the swimming Whale Shark under : www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZVsgrv2osc Emirates Palace Beach, Abu Dhabi, 14. October 2009 : When Jonathan Papellaro was asked to help rescuers guide a whale shark out of the bay at the Emirates Palace in Abu Dhabi, he did not hesitate. Whale sharks are the biggest fish in the world, and this one was cruising just 20 meters from shore, in water so shallow its tail fin broke the surface. "It is really rare to have this experience, and they gave me a chance to go with him," said Mr. Papellaro, 30, a hotel beach club supervisor. He and other staff from the Emirates Palace beach club were still buzzing about the whale shark's visit, when it swam for several hours near a marina under construction at the hotel. Staff estimated the fish was seven or eight meters long. Whale sharks can grow up to 12 meters in length. Two members of the Environment Agency-Abu Dhabi (EAD) asked Mr. Papellaro to swim out to the fish with them to try to lead it into deeper water. "When they jumped in with the whale shark, I saw it was not really harmful because they touched it," Mr. Papellaro said. He swam to the right of the shark; the others were on its left and behind it. From time to time, he said, he could see the creature watching him out of the corner of its eye. "It just went with us," Mr. Papellaro said. "It didn't even try to get away from us. The skin is like sandpaper, like fine sandpaper, your hands will stick on it." In the end, the whale shark apparently decided it wanted to stay for a while. It dived away from the swimmers and returned towards shore. A few guests sunbathing at the west beach were alerted so they would not be alarmed, said Clare Patterson, 25, the beach club's manager. However, the whale shark avoided the beach and cruised along a pier wall in view of about 50 staff from the hotel and people on a yacht moored near the marina. "I've never seen an animal that big that was so unthreatening," Ms. Patterson said. "Everyone was just silent because she was beautiful. She was just so elegant." "I felt very privileged to have seen it and not have to go to an aquarium. She chose to come to us." It is not unusual for a whale shark to swim to shore, said Dr. Thabit Zahran Al Abdessalaam, director of marine biodiversity management at the EAD. "They feed on plankton so mainly it would be going for food," he said. "During this time of the year it is not uncommon." Another whale shark, about four meters long, was spotted swimming near the quay of Mina Zayed port in 2007. Andy Elliot, the beach club director at the Emirates Palace, said a smaller whale shark had come into the hotel's bay last year. Mr. Elliot said that in 2007 more than 200 manta rays had swum into the hotel's bay. Dolphins also regularly visit the area. "In some respects it makes you feel quite good that we have so much wildlife that is keen to come in," Mr. Elliot said. Tourists in the hotel were surprised to hear that a whale shark had come so near the shore. "I must admit I didn't realize they were here," said Peter Batts, 61, a civil engineer on holiday from the U.K. "We wish we could have seen it," added his wife, Evelyn. The whale shark is listed as vulnerable to extinction in the Red List of Threatened Species, a publication by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (Matthew Chung, The National, 2009). Dubai Marina, Dubai, 18. October 2009: A whale shark was spotted in Dubai Marina on Sunday morning 18. October 2009, by resident Prue Tracy-Inglis from her 22nd floor balcony overlooking Marina Walk. The most awesome sight in the ocean is quite possibly that of the largest fish in the sea, the whale shark. The Arabian Gulf appears to serve as a nursery ground for these plankton-eating leviathan as almost every sighting of whale sharks in the Arabian Gulf has been of a juvenile. In Australia's north-west, one famous area for whale sharks - Ningaloo Reef - whale shark sightings are almost exclusively of fully developed adults. Whether the Arabian Gulf is a pupping site for these giant plankton feeding surface dwellers is still not fully understood (Zac Sharpe). References and Internet Websites : 7Days (June 26, 2007). Whale Shark in Palm Jumeirah. www.7days.ae/cj2_photo.php?id=162 A whale shark heard Emirates Palace was the hottest address in town (Wednesday, 21 October 2009). www.etravelblackboard.com/showarticle.asp?id=98386 Al Mulhama, The Inspired. Whale Shark at Dubai Marina (28.08.2005). UAE Community Blog. http://uaecommunity.blogspot.com/2005/08/whale-shark-at-dubai-marina-28-08-05.ht\ ml Arabian Whale Shark Symposium. www.saveourseas.com/arabian-whaleshark Bardsley, Daniel (Staff Reporter, Gulf News) (June 26, 2006). Another Whale Shark Swims Into Marina. http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/environment/another-whale-shark-swims-into-mar\ ina-1.130659 & www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/InNews/dubai2006.html Chung, Matthew (October 18, 2009). Whale shark springs big surprise at beach club. www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091018/NATIONAL/710179830/1022 'Distressed' whale shark taken to Atlantis Hotel (September 9, 2008). www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-185410886.html Diving in the Emirates. www.gowealthy.com/gowealthy/wcms/en/home/articles/travel/sports/Diving-in-the-Em\ irates-Ul4bldPD1j.html Dubai Divers. More Whale Sharks spotted. www.dubaidivers.com/ Dubai Divers. Whale Shark cruising Palm Jumeirah. www.dubaidivers.com/ Emirates Hostage Whale Shark. http://newshopper.sulekha.com/emirates-hostage-whale-shark_news_976624.htm Emirates Natural History Group. Whale-Shark. Bulletin 39 - November 1989: Miscellany. www.enhg.org/bulletin/b39/39_27.htm Environment Agency – Abu Dhabi (09. June 2010). Whale Shark Spotted in Al Bateen Harbor in Abu Dhabi. www.ead.ae/en/news/khale.shark.spottedinabudhabi.aspx Facebook. Set The Whale Shark Free From The Atlantis Aquarium Dubai. www.facebook.com/#/group.php?gid=93869105312 Felsinger, Alex (February 8th, 2009). Why Hasn't the Atlantis Hotel Released Sammy the Whale Shark?. http://planetsave.com/blog/2009/02/08/why-hasnt-the-atlantis-hotel-released-samm\ y-the-whale-shark/ Grewal, Jimmy (2005). Whale Shark visits Dubai Marina. Jimmy Grewal's Weblog. http://www.jimmygrewal.com/?p=164 Habib, Rania and Mohammad Shamseddine, Staff Reporters, Gulf News (2007). Four-metre whale shark attracts crowd of admirers in Abu Dhabi. February 8, 2007. http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/environment/four-metre-whale-shark-attracts-cr\ owd-of-admirers-in-abu-dhabi-1.126173 Haith, Sara-Lise (Thursday, February 8, 2007). Four-metre whale shark in Abu Dhabi port. Submitted by Deeper Blue. www.deeperblue.net/newsfull.php/1485 Hotel releases Sammy the Whale Shark. www.global-adventures.us/2010/03/24/hotel-sammy-whale-shark/ Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1980). Tabie't Al-Talawon fi Al-Haywanat (The Colouration of Animals). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 1. January 1980, Safar 1401. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 4-5. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1981). Fawa'ed Alasmak. (The Benefits of Fishes). Al-Biology Magazine, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. Number 1. Sunday 7.6.1981, 5. Sha'ban 1401. pp. 54-55. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (1983). Al-Samaka Al-`Auljumiyah Al-Naqaqa fi Al-Khaleej Al-Arabi [The Toad Fish (Batrachus grunniens) in the Arabian Gulf]. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 3, 23 November 1983. pp. 10-11. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Schooling of Fishes. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 1-13. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Fish Fauna in Van Mildert Pond, Durham City, North East England. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 14-20. Khalaf, N. A. B. (1986). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). Dissertation, Master of Science in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Great White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias) from the State of Kuwait, Arabian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 16. Fifth Year. Safar 1408 AH. September 1987 AD. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali (1989). Qa'ema li-ba'd Asmak Al-Kuwait fi Al-Mathaf Al-`Ilmi Bi-Dawlat Al-Kuwait (A List of some Kuwaiti Fishes from the Science & Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 19. Seventh Year. December 1989. Bonn 2-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 3. (In Arabic and English). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part One). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 23, Ninth Year, July 1991. pp. 1-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Two). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 24, Ninth Year, August 1991. pp. 1-10. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Three). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 25, Ninth Year, September 1991. pp. 1-7. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Gazelle. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 30, Tenth Year, October 1992. pp. 1-7. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1994). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 16-21. (In Arabic). Acquaintance Card: Majallet Al-Ghazzal (Gazelle Magazine): The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn, Germany. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 51-52. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B.(1995). Alasmak fi Filistin (Die Fische von Palästina / The Fishes of Palestine). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 33. Thirteenth Year. December 1995. Bonn, Germany. pp.1-35. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Ali Bassam (1997). Amir Al-Bahar Al-Arabi (The Arabian Sea Prince) Shihab Al-Deen Ahmad Bin Majed. Magazin der Akademie. Nummer 1. Zu Elke'da 1417 H, März 1997. König Fahad Akademie – Bonn, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Deutschland. pp. 23-24. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Eine Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2004. / Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2004. Erste Auflage / First Edition, Juli 2004: 452 Seiten / Pages. Zweite erweiterte Auflage (Second Extended Edition), August 2004: 460 Seiten / Pages. Norman Ali Khalaf, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Germany. ISBN 3-00-014121-9. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 1-6. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Jaffa (Yaffa): The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 7-8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Jewfish (Epinephelus itajara) / Der Riesenzackenbarsch oder Judenfisch (Epinephelus itajara). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 9-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Arabian Freshwater Fishes in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 40, Twenty-third Year, April 2005. pp. 1-9. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/arabianfreshwaterfish.htm Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005: 376 Seiten / Pages. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/aquaticaarabica.htm Khalaf, N.A.B. (2005). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). [M.Sc. Dissertation in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv]. In: Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage, August 2005. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 28-93. Khalaf, Norman Ali (2005, 2006). Chapter 3: Geography, Flora and Fauna. Pages 32-39. In: Palestine: A Guide. By Mariam Shahin, Photography by George Azar. Co-Author: Norman Ali Khalaf. Northampton, Massachusetts: Interlink Publishing Group, 2005, 2006. xi + 471 pages. Appendices to page 500. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 56, Twenty-fourth Year, August 2006. pp. 8-19. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Zum 1. Todestag : Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / The First Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 62, Februar 2007, Muharram 1428 AH. Seite 11. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Palaestina. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Palaestina/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit August 2007). Haie – Sharks Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haie_Sharks/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit September 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Arabica. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Arabica/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). Wikipedia, Al-Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, Twenty-fifth Year, September 2007 CE, Sha'ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D\ 9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) caught off the Kuwaiti Coast: The Second Record from the State of Kuwait, Arabian / Persian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 1-20. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/whalesharkinkuwait.htm Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Rhiniodon typus Smith, 1828 or Rhincodon typus Smith, 1829: The Story of a Scientific Name. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 21. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://whale-shark.webs.com/rhiniodontypus.htm Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 22-23. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 23-26. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstract in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/ Khalaf, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Zum 3. Todestag : Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / The Third Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 86, Februar 2009, Safar 1430 AH. Seite 21. Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 88, April 2009, Rabi'e Al Thani 1430 AH. pp. 1-14. http://dibba-sawfish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 90, June 2009, Jumada Al-Akhera 1430 AH. pp. 1-15. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Flora and Fauna in Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 91, July 2009, Rajab 1430 AH. pp. 1-31. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://flora-fauna-palestine.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambique Tilapia Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 92, August 2009, Sha'ban 1430 AH. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-tilapia.webs.com/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2009). Fauna Palaestina – Part One. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2006 / Fauna Palaestina – Teil Eins. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2006. ISBN 978-9948-03-865-8. Erste Auflage/First Edition, September 2009: 412 Seiten/Pages. Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart1.htm Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist : The Scientific References (1980-2009). http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-references.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) at Sharjah Aquarium, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Twenty-seventh Year, Number 93, September 2009, Ramadan 1430 AH. pp. 1-18. http://bowmouth-guitarfish-emirates.webs.com/bowmouthguitarfishuae.htm Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) Records from the United Arab Emirates between 1989 - 2009. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Twenty-seventh Year, Number 94, October 2009, Shawal 1430 AH. pp. 1-28. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://whale-shark.webs.com/whalesharkinemirates.htm Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2010). Walhai / Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus) "Sammy", Palm Jumeirah Atlantis Hotel Aquarium, Dubai. 2. Januar 2010. Foto: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/21373351 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2010). Walhai / Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus) "Sammy", Palm Jumeirah Atlantis Hotel Aquarium, Dubai. 1. Februar 2010. Foto: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/21449033 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2010). Fauna Emiratus - Part One. A Zoological Journey in the United Arab Emirates between 2004 – 2009 / Fauna Emiratus – Teil Eins. Eine Zoologische Reise in die Vereinigten Arabischen Emirate zwischen 2004 - 2009. ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4. Publishing Date : Summer 2010. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm Knights, Jamie (Oct 18, 2009). Whale shark targets Emirates Palace. www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/article-6102-whale-shark-targets-emirates-palace/ Landais, Emmanuelle (September 10, 2008). Whale Shark in Atlantis Hotel Aquarium to be Released. www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/InNews/atlantis2008.html Landais, Emmanuelle (Staff Reporter) (September 27, 2008). Falling shark population a concern. Gulf News. http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/environment/falling-shark-population-a-concern\ -1.133175 Landais, Emmanuelle (October 19, 2009). Arabian Gulf Offers Safe Haven For Whale Sharks. www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/InNews/arabian2009.html & http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/environment/arabian-gulf-offers-safe-haven-for\ -whale-sharks-1.516388 Landais, Emmanuelle (Staff Reporter) (March 18, 2010). Sammy the whale shark freed in Dubai. Gulf News. http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/environment/sammy-the-whale-shark-freed-in-dub\ ai-1.599693 Landais, Emmanuelle and Piers Grimley Evans (Staff Reporters) (17.07.2005). Whale shark seeks way out of Dubai waterfront. Gulf News. http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/05/07/17/173323.html Longboat Key News (19. June 2010). Mote tracks Dubai whale shark. www.lbknews.com/2010/06/19/mote-tracks-dubai-whale-shark/ Mirza, Zaigham Ali (24. September 2003). Whale shark sighted in Dubai Marina channel. www.khaleejtimes.com/Displayarticle.asp?section=theuae&xfile=data/theuae/2003/se\ ptember/theuae_september607.xml Nayeem, Sanya (Community Journalist) (October 21, 2008). Sammy the Shark gets drawn to attention. Gulf News. http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/environment/sammy-the-shark-gets-drawn-to-atte\ ntion-1.51131 Persian Gulf sharks face extinction. www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=91116§ionid=351020205 Pound, Dr. Geoff (Thursday, October 30, 2008). Whale Shark at Dubai Atlantis Hotel Making Waves Around the World. http://experiencingtheemirates.blogspot.com/2008/10/whale-shark-at-dubai-atlanti\ s-hotel.html Protests over Dubai's Atlantis hotel keeping whale shark (10. February 2009). www.dailytelegraph.com.au/travel/news/protest-over-hotels-giant-fish-tank/story-\ e6frezi0-1111118798711 Randall, Dr. John E. (1986). Sharks of Arabia. (The primary purpose of this book is to provide for the identification of the 44 sharks which are known to live in the seas and gulfs which surround the Arabian Peninsula). London, IMMEL Publishing, 1986. 148 pages. ISBN: 0-907151-09-4. [Dr. John E. Randall is a well established ichthyologist and prolific author, with a particular interest in the Red Sea. This excellent volume covers the biology of the region's sharks, evolution history, man's involvement with sharks - and follows with a classification of the species found]. Rejoice! Sammy the Shark No Longer a Prisoner of Atlantis Dubai. www.hotelchatter.com/story/2008/10/27/10544/663/hotels/Rejoice_Sammy_the_Shark_N\ o_Longer_a_Prisoner_of_Atlantis_Dubai Sammy The Whale Shark Still In Captivity (Sunday, February 8, 2009). http://seychelles-whale-sharks.blogspot.com/2009/02/sammy-whale-shark-still-in-c\ aptivity.html Save Sammy the Shark. www.richardbradley.net/shotsinthedark/2008/10/24/save-sammy-the-shark/ Shark spotted off Mamzar beach park. http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/general/shark-spotted-off-mamzar-beach-park-1.\ 126174 Sharpe, Zac. Marine Life of the UAE. www.alshindagah.com/september99/arabianwildlife.htm Stafford-Deitsch, Jeremy. Shark's Gallery. www.arabianwildlife.com/archive/vol1.1/shark.htm Stevens, J. D. (2007). Whale shark (Rhincodon typus) biology and ecology: A review of the primary literature. Fisheries Research, Volume 84, Issue 1, March 2007, Pages 4-9. Whale Sharks: Science, Conservation and Management - Proceedings of the First International Whale Shark Conference, First International Whale Shark Conference. www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6N-4MC81M1-3&_user=10&_rdoc\ =1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1147819769&_rerunO\ rigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=fe671cbcfe\ 76a533f1407403add25d6e Stevens, Vance (2003). Vance's Personal Dive Log for the year 2003., P.A.D.I. Open Water SCUBA Instructor #64181. www.homestead.com/prosites-vstevens/files/divelogs/dives2003/logs2003.html Tauchplätze Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. Martini Rock Fujairah. www.taucher.net/edb/Martini_Rock_Fujairah_o8376.html Taylor, Geoff. (December 1994). Whale Sharks - The Giants of Ningaloo Reef. Harpercollins; 1st ed edition. 176p. The Palm Specialists. Gentle Giant Visits Palm Jumeirah. www.palmspecialists.com/jum_etnews.html Todorova, Vesela (September 21. 2009). Fresh calls for whale shark's release. www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090921/NATIONAL/709209888/1139 Whale Shark at hotel in Dubai. www.panda.org/about_our_earth/aboutcc/problems/people_at_risk/personal_stories/?\ uNewsID=147441 Whale Shark 'Rescued' and taken to Atlantis Palm Aquarium – Dubai (September 9, 2008). www.nowpublic.com/world/whale-shark-rescued-and-taken-atlantis-palm-aquarium-dub\ ai Whale Shark Stamp, United Arab Emirates. Date of Issue: 26. September 2004. Set: Endangered and Extinct Marine Animals of the Arabian Gulf. Stamp: AE016.04. www.wnsstamps.ch/stamps/AE016.04/en.html Whale shark targets Emirates Palace (Oct 18, 2009). www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/6102-whale-shark-targets-emirates-palace/ Whale Shark to be held Captive Indefinitely ... what a surprise! (October 6, 2008). www.nowpublic.com/world/whale-shark-be-held-captive-indefinitely-what-surprise Whale Shark Visits Dubai Marina. http://masaoodmarine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=47 Wheeler, Julia (Sunday, 19. October 2008). Dubai hotel urged to free shark. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/7678780.stm Wikipedia. Whale shark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_shark You Tube. Whale Shark Martini Rock (6. June 2009). www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZVsgrv2osc www.albayan.ae/servlet/Satellite?c=Article&cid=1250780029187&pagename=Albayan%2F\ Article%2FFullDetail www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgcC_ponjyg www.arabianbusiness.com/arabic/530614 www.arabdivers.net/news.php?action=show&id=88

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48638	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question?

I agree entirely, which is why I simply gave up on suggestions or an answer to my question Hon.   I have limited experience with convicts, the three I had (at different times in different tanks) ALL harrassed my other fish until I got rid of two and there was an apparent revolution and my convict was suspiciously attacked/eaten.  Amazingly all the other fish in the tank acted innocent for days...  LOL   Chris Owens NOVA --- On Thu, 6/24/10, shrlycat <shrlycat@...> wrote: From: shrlycat <shrlycat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Hey gang - can I get an answer to my question? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 24, 2010, 11:13 PM   Hey, I live in Florida and I love wildlife and the Gulf situation drives me nuts too, but all our ranting and raving isn't going to mount to a hill of beans. Now, please can I get an answer to my question about adding two or three cory cats to a 40-gallon tank with a grown male convict cichlid. (Will the convict harass the corys?) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48639	From: diana_brooksnj	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: killer fish?

One of my two tanks is a 55 gallon tank, that currently houses 5 rosy barb and 3 long finned zebras, they all seem to school together. They were supposed to be the "dither fish" for this tank. However, anything else I put in this tank ends up dead and sometimes eaten before I even know of the demise. I figured they were too nippy for slow movers like gourami's and betta (some of the first victims) but now even tougher fish like two different plecostomus in succession have succumbed. What can I do to get some more survivors in this tank? Do I have to break up this "gang"? Diana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48640	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: killer fish?

Pleco's are pretty hard to kill for a fish as they tend to have a hard protective skin and even spines to protect them. I lost a couple pleco's this winter and I'm pretty sure it's because they were having trouble finding enough food (darn snails will eat me out of house and home). I've had to change how I feed the tank (feed more at night and feed more often) just so I make sure my pleco's can find enough food too. Is there any chance that your pleco's couldn't find enough food to eat? They will eat algae from the glass but unless there's a lot of it it's not always enough for them to fill up on. My snails tend to keep the glass pretty clean when they're growing up (which is what's happening right now) and so my pleco's were not finding much algae on the glass, or left over algae wafers either. Amber diana_brooksnj wrote: > > One of my two tanks is a 55 gallon tank, that currently houses 5 rosy > barb and 3 long finned zebras, they all seem to school together. They > were supposed to be the "dither fish" for this tank. However, anything > else I put in this tank ends up dead and sometimes eaten before I even > know of the demise. I figured they were too nippy for slow movers like > gourami's and betta (some of the first victims) but now even tougher > fish like two different plecostomus in succession have succumbed. What > can I do to get some more survivors in this tank? Do I have to break > up this "gang"? > Diana > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48641	From: Prince	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: killer fish?

I do not think its the group sometimes if you buy fish from big box stores and pet shops like pet smart and petco you are buying fish brought in on the same day. This puts alot of eextra stess on the fish, that and several changes of water quality are probably the true killers --- On Mon, 6/28/10, diana_brooksnj <diana_brooks@...> wrote: From: diana_brooksnj <diana_brooks@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] killer fish? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:02 AM   One of my two tanks is a 55 gallon tank, that currently houses 5 rosy barb and 3 long finned zebras, they all seem to school together. They were supposed to be the "dither fish" for this tank. However, anything else I put in this tank ends up dead and sometimes eaten before I even know of the demise. I figured they were too nippy for slow movers like gourami's and betta (some of the first victims) but now even tougher fish like two different plecostomus in succession have succumbed. What can I do to get some more survivors in this tank? Do I have to break up this "gang"? Diana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48642	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: killer fish?

Diane, What species of aggressive fish in this 55 gallon do you have, that you feel you need dither fish with to draw off this species' aggression? As for your input that youir Rosy Barbs and Long-Fin Zebras school together, I find that most remarkable (and unusual), since the Barbs generally inhabit the bottom-most 1/3rd of the tank and the Zebras are primarily surface or top-most dwellers inhabiting the the upper 1/3rd of the water column, but if your observing both of these species to intermix as one school it's quite interesting. I might add that I have maintained both of these species in the same tank many years ago, yet never saw them to interact with each other at all. I can offer no explanation as to why yours will do this, but in any case, I would advise you to add at least two more Long-Fin Zebras for a school of a total of five individuals. As this morph of Zebras are not as fast in swimming as their normal-fin counterparts, they should not be considered to inflict any damage, but a larger school will keep all individuals pre-occupied with each other. If you're referring to your Rosy Barbs as being too nippy for your slow moving fish like Gourami's and Betta, I can only add that while I've seemed to recently notice a few reports of this (and other Barbs) as being "nippy," I've never seen them to behave so, in any manner that the "infamous and notorious" Tiger Barbs will behave, and fell that are getting a bum rap. Still, there must be some explanation as to why you're losing fish. You may need to go back to your water conditions, and supply us with the readings (in numbers) of your water parameters. This can often tell us a lot. As for your Pleco's, as Amber has already stated, these fish are extremely hard to kill by other fish. They may well not have received their needed share of food and often need supplementary offerings such as algae wafers or even zucinni slices. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48643	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: killer fish?

What are your water parameters? If any new fish are dying really quick, which you imply, then I doubt it's your rosy barbs and zebra danios. Have you actually seen this "gang" harassing, nipping new fish? How are you quarantining and then acclimating the new fish to your tank(s)? When fish die shortly after going into a new tank, I would suspect some type of shock issue, either pH shock or osmotic shock... temperature shock is also a possibility. I saw Amber's answer about Pleco's starving to death and that can happen as she explained that would usually take weeks, not days. You should also have driftwood in a tank for pleco's as they will gnaw on the driftwood as part of their natural diet. As Amber explained, it's also important for them to get lots of other food as part of a balanced diet, not just algae or missed food from other fish. Here's an article about feeding suckermouth catfish, like Pleco's. I have to give you the Internet Archive website link since the original site, PlecoFanatics is shut down now. http://web.archive.org/web/20061023094514/http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum /showthread.php?t=11018 http://tinyurl.com/2crs546 since above link will probably break with Yahoo Groups. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or add information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of diana_brooksnj Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] killer fish? One of my two tanks is a 55 gallon tank, that currently houses 5 rosy barb and 3 long finned zebras, they all seem to school together. They were supposed to be the "dither fish" for this tank. However, anything else I put in this tank ends up dead and sometimes eaten before I even know of the demise. I figured they were too nippy for slow movers like gourami's and betta (some of the first victims) but now even tougher fish like two different plecostomus in succession have succumbed. What can I do to get some more survivors in this tank? Do I have to break up this "gang"? Diana

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48644	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Bill, All-Glass Aquarium manufacturersd lists their 72 Gallon Bowfront as -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H. It is made of GLASS as the manufacturer's name would imply,as would it's cataloged weight of 91 pounds. Their 75 Gallon tank is listed as -- 48" L x 18" W x 21" H. It weighs 98 pounds. By this, you can plainly see that the 75 Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, yet hold more water. I would HAVE TO assume then, that the Bowfront's 18" Wide measurement is that given at the center mark, with the ends tapering inward to make the "bow." The 2" addition height of the Boweront, yet holding less water MUST be proof that the ends MUST measure less in width than the 75 gallon tank, or the 2" difference in height would ENSURE that it (the Bowfront) holds even more water than the 75 gallon -- which we know it doesn't. The 7 less pounds of weight for the 72 gallon Bowfront further substantiates less glass at the ends and the tapering (rounded front) bottom. I might guess that the Bowfront is posssibly in the vincinity of 14" wide at the ends, but you may want to call them at (414) - 421-9670 to check its exact measurement Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48645	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Hi Ray, Those were my first thoughts too but as \\Steve// and others reported, it must come from the height and not the sides, as almost all seem to report 18" as a standard. Amber came up with an unusual idea in suggesting a "corner tank". I found one called a "Pentagon", on Crag's List but I am unable to determine the proper capacity of it. I'm thinking of posting it to group and maybe somebody can add more information about it. Bill --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 5:32 PM > Bill,  All-Glass Aquarium > manufacturersd lists their 72 Gallon Bowfront as > -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H.  It is made of GLASS as the > manufacturer's name > would imply,as would it's cataloged weight of 91 pounds. > > > Their 75 Gallon tank is listed as -- 48" L x 18" W x 21" > H.  It weighs 98 > pounds.  By this, you can plainly see that the 75 > Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, > yet hold more water.  > > I would HAVE TO assume then, that the Bowfront's 18" Wide > measurement is > that given at the center mark, with the ends tapering > inward to make the > "bow."  The 2" addition height of the Boweront, yet > holding less water MUST be > proof that the ends MUST measure less in width than the 75 > gallon tank, or the > 2" difference in height would ENSURE that it (the Bowfront) > holds even more > water than the 75 gallon -- which we know it doesn't.  > The 7 less pounds of > weight for the 72 gallon Bowfront further substantiates > less glass at the > ends and the tapering (rounded front) bottom. > > I might guess that the Bowfront is posssibly in the > vincinity of 14" wide > at the ends,  but you may want to call them at (414) - > 421-9670 to check its > exact measurement  Ray  > </HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48646	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: FW: AHHS: Discus Question by Alan Fletcher

I'm forwarding this question(s) about Discus health issues to the AquaticLife group for Alan Fletcher from the AHHS group since he hasn't gotten a reply in that group. I'm not sure if their moderator is out of town or what happened but he would like to hear back from any and all experienced Discus keepers or other interested parties that might have some info. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or add information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 9:51 AM To: AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety@yahoogroups.com Cc: 'ALAN FLETCHER' Subject: AHHS: Discus Question by Alan Fletcher Per Alan Fletcher's request, I am forwarding the below email to the group since it bounced back to him. I've covered the reason for the bounce-back but am forwarding it anyhow in case his next attempt doesn't work. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) -----Original Message----- From: ALAN FLETCHER [mailto:fletch14850@...] Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 8:22 AM To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Subject: Fw: Discus Alan Mark Fletcher 300 Forest Home Drive Ithaca, New York 14850, U.S.A. Phone: 607-257-4359 "Whenever I forget something, I have a strange sensation I've forgotten it before." ----- Original Message ----- From: ALAN FLETCHER <mailto:fletch14850@...> To: AHHS@yahoogroups.com (should have been AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: Discus I am hoping one or more of you cichlidophiles can enlighten me. I have just lost my last lovely Discus, which was in a 30-gal. high community aquarium. For weeks (months?) it had looked miserable, although it continued to eat. It kept getting whitish blotches on its otherwise dark sides, which were obvious injuries, not disease. The aquarium has nothing that has shown any aggression toward the Discus. EXCEPT -- the very tiny male Endler's livebearers had been observed picking at the Discus's sides. Is it possible that those little guys could make a Discus miserable enough to force it to give up the ghost? Is there any history of livebearing tooth-carps making life miserable for much, much larger cichlids? Thanks, sadly. Alan Alan Mark Fletcher 300 Forest Home Drive Ithaca, New York 14850, U.S.A. Phone: 607-257-4359 "Whenever I forget something, I have a strange sensation I've forgotten it before."

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48647	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Bill, since All-Glass catalogs the 72 G Bowfront as 18" wide. we should then assume that's what it is (at it's widest point in the middle, from front to back). and not the 16" that you also heard of. I just did threw some numbers on my calculator (48" x 16 x 23 "), the cataloged measurements of the 72 G Bowfront. If this had ends also of 18", instead of just being 18" in the center (front to back), it would hold 86 gallons. This tells you the ends can't be as wide as the middle. I approximate it at 14" wide at the ends but that's only a guesstimate. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48648	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: ID Gallon/Size of Tank

Can anyone ID this. Waiting on Mod approval. Bill http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2098898456/pic/list

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48649	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

what are the dimensions bill? Is it close to any of the dimensions on this page: http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > Those were my first thoughts too but as \\Steve// and others reported, > it must come from the height and not the sides, as almost all seem to > report 18" as a standard. > > Amber came up with an unusual idea in suggesting a "corner tank". I > found one called a "Pentagon", on Crag's List but I am unable to > determine the proper capacity of it. I'm thinking of posting it to > group and maybe somebody can add more information about it. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 5:32 PM > > Bill, All-Glass Aquarium > > manufacturersd lists their 72 Gallon Bowfront as > > -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H. It is made of GLASS as the > > manufacturer's name > > would imply,as would it's cataloged weight of 91 pounds. > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon tank is listed as -- 48" L x 18" W x 21" > > H. It weighs 98 > > pounds. By this, you can plainly see that the 75 > > Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, > > yet hold more water. > > > > I would HAVE TO assume then, that the Bowfront's 18" Wide > > measurement is > > that given at the center mark, with the ends tapering > > inward to make the > > "bow." The 2" addition height of the Boweront, yet > > holding less water MUST be > > proof that the ends MUST measure less in width than the 75 > > gallon tank, or the > > 2" difference in height would ENSURE that it (the Bowfront) > > holds even more > > water than the 75 gallon -- which we know it doesn't. > > The 7 less pounds of > > weight for the 72 gallon Bowfront further substantiates > > less glass at the > > ends and the tapering (rounded front) bottom. > > > > I might guess that the Bowfront is posssibly in the > > vincinity of 14" wide > > at the ends, but you may want to call them at (414) - > > 421-9670 to check its > > exact measurement Ray > > </HTML> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48650	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Ray, I suspect that Bill cannot have a tank where one measurement, back to front, is 18", whether it is at the ends, or in the middle at the bow. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 6:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? Bill, since All-Glass catalogs the 72 G Bowfront as 18" wide. we should then assume that's what it is (at it's widest point in the middle, from front to back). and not the 16" that you also heard of. I just did threw some numbers on my calculator (48" x 16 x 23 "), the cataloged measurements of the 72 G Bowfront. If this had ends also of 18", instead of just being 18" in the center (front to back), it would hold 86 gallons. This tells you the ends can't be as wide as the middle. I approximate it at 14" wide at the ends but that's only a guesstimate. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48651	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: ID Gallon/Size of Tank

Bill, It has been approved. It is exactly what the caption says, a 5 sided corner tank, with two of the side that make the corner longer than the other three. Also known as an irregular pentagon. Looking at the photo, not only do you see the bike hanging on the wall in the background, but you can see the two longer sides coming together in what may be a 90° angle. There are also corner tanks in el shapes and triangular shapes. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 6:29 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] ID Gallon/Size of Tank Can anyone ID this. Waiting on Mod approval. Bill http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/2098898456/pic/list

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48652	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

that's the trouble Amber, the lady did not measure it! Goofy, but true. I was hoping someone might know by looking or maybe has one like it. Bill --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:12 PM > what are the dimensions bill? > Is it close to any of the dimensions on this page: > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > Those were my first thoughts too but as \\Steve// and > others reported, > > it must come from the height and not the sides, as > almost all seem to > > report 18" as a standard. > > > > Amber came up with an unusual idea in suggesting a > "corner tank". I > > found one called a "Pentagon", on Crag's List but I am > unable to > > determine the proper capacity of it. I'm thinking of > posting it to > > group and maybe somebody can add more information > about it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > wrote: > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > tanks, the truth? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 5:32 PM > > > Bill, All-Glass Aquarium > > > manufacturersd lists their 72 Gallon Bowfront as > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H. It is made of GLASS as > the > > > manufacturer's name > > > would imply,as would it's cataloged weight of 91 > pounds. > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon tank is listed as -- 48" L x 18" > W x 21" > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > pounds. By this, you can plainly see that the 75 > > > Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, > > > yet hold more water. > > > > > > I would HAVE TO assume then, that the Bowfront's > 18" Wide > > > measurement is > > > that given at the center mark, with the ends > tapering > > > inward to make the > > > "bow." The 2" addition height of the Boweront, > yet > > > holding less water MUST be > > > proof that the ends MUST measure less in width > than the 75 > > > gallon tank, or the > > > 2" difference in height would ENSURE that it (the > Bowfront) > > > holds even more > > > water than the 75 gallon -- which we know it > doesn't. > > > The 7 less pounds of > > > weight for the 72 gallon Bowfront further > substantiates > > > less glass at the > > > ends and the tapering (rounded front) bottom. > > > > > > I might guess that the Bowfront is posssibly in > the > > > vincinity of 14" wide > > > at the ends, but you may want to call them at > (414) - > > > 421-9670 to check its > > > exact measurement Ray > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48653	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/28/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Is it possible to get her to measure it? LOL. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady did not measure it! > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping someone might know by looking or maybe > has one like it. > > Bill > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:12 PM > > what are the dimensions bill? > > Is it close to any of the dimensions on this page: > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > Those were my first thoughts too but as \\Steve// and > > others reported, > > > it must come from the height and not the sides, as > > almost all seem to > > > report 18" as a standard. > > > > > > Amber came up with an unusual idea in suggesting a > > "corner tank". I > > > found one called a "Pentagon", on Crag's List but I am > > unable to > > > determine the proper capacity of it. I'm thinking of > > posting it to > > > group and maybe somebody can add more information > > about it. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > > tanks, the truth? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 5:32 PM > > > > Bill, All-Glass Aquarium > > > > manufacturersd lists their 72 Gallon Bowfront as > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H. It is made of GLASS as > > the > > > > manufacturer's name > > > > would imply,as would it's cataloged weight of 91 > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon tank is listed as -- 48" L x 18" > > W x 21" > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > pounds. By this, you can plainly see that the 75 > > > > Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, > > > > yet hold more water. > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO assume then, that the Bowfront's > > 18" Wide > > > > measurement is > > > > that given at the center mark, with the ends > > tapering > > > > inward to make the > > > > "bow." The 2" addition height of the Boweront, > > yet > > > > holding less water MUST be > > > > proof that the ends MUST measure less in width > > than the 75 > > > > gallon tank, or the > > > > 2" difference in height would ENSURE that it (the > > Bowfront) > > > > holds even more > > > > water than the 75 gallon -- which we know it > > doesn't. > > > > The 7 less pounds of > > > > weight for the 72 gallon Bowfront further > > substantiates > > > > less glass at the > > > > ends and the tapering (rounded front) bottom. > > > > > > > > I might guess that the Bowfront is posssibly in > > the > > > > vincinity of 14" wide > > > > at the ends, but you may want to call them at > > (414) - > > > > 421-9670 to check its > > > > exact measurement Ray > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48654	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Not foillowing you, Bill. What comes from the height? What part of my message do you agree with -- that the 18" width is only in the center? Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48655	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: ID Gallon/Size of Tank

Can't open this, Bill. All's I keep getting is "Action Canceled" whenever I click on it. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48656	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Bill, A corner tank wouldn't work against a flat wall. It's meant for a corner of the room as it has two "rear panels" at right angles to each other, then, a wider front viewing panel connecting each extremity of the rear panels. A pentagon (5-sided) tank is probably best positioned in a corner too, as would a regular hexagon (6-sided) tank. The flat-back hex would be fine against a flat wall, as it's similar to any long tank., but with the two corners chopped off at angles. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48657	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Okay \\Steve//, then this precludes his plans for a 72 G Bowfront, as it is 18" in the center. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48658	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

talk later today and maybe I'll have more info? Bill --- On Tue, 6/29/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 6:48 AM > Not foillowing you, Bill.  What > comes from the height?  What part of my > message do you agree with -- that the 18" width is only in > the center?  Ray > </HTML> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48659	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

we is workin' on it. Either the lady is older (even older than me) or she understands nothing about aquariums but she's trying. It's hard to tell her exactly WHAT it is I want her to measure and how. Like getting a total measurement across the top of the tank at its furthest points, the sides, that would also help. I found two very good aquarium calculators but they both involve the measurement of each side or panel of glass. Bill --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 12:12 AM > Is it possible to get her to measure > it? LOL. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady did not measure > it! > > > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping someone might know by > looking or maybe > > has one like it. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > tanks, the truth? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:12 PM > > > what are the dimensions bill? > > > Is it close to any of the dimensions on this > page: > > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > Those were my first thoughts too but as > \\Steve// and > > > others reported, > > > > it must come from the height and not the > sides, as > > > almost all seem to > > > > report 18" as a standard. > > > > > > > > Amber came up with an unusual idea in > suggesting a > > > "corner tank". I > > > > found one called a "Pentagon", on Crag's > List but I am > > > unable to > > > > determine the proper capacity of it. I'm > thinking of > > > posting it to > > > > group and maybe somebody can add more > information > > > about it. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon > bow front > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 5:32 PM > > > > > Bill, All-Glass Aquarium > > > > > manufacturersd lists their 72 Gallon > Bowfront as > > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H. It is made of > GLASS as > > > the > > > > > manufacturer's name > > > > > would imply,as would it's cataloged > weight of 91 > > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon tank is listed as -- > 48" L x 18" > > > W x 21" > > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > > pounds. By this, you can plainly see > that the 75 > > > > > Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, > > > > > yet hold more water. > > > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO assume then, that the > Bowfront's > > > 18" Wide > > > > > measurement is > > > > > that given at the center mark, with the > ends > > > tapering > > > > > inward to make the > > > > > "bow." The 2" addition height of the > Boweront, > > > yet > > > > > holding less water MUST be > > > > > proof that the ends MUST measure less > in width > > > than the 75 > > > > > gallon tank, or the > > > > > 2" difference in height would ENSURE > that it (the > > > Bowfront) > > > > > holds even more > > > > > water than the 75 gallon -- which we > know it > > > doesn't. > > > > > The 7 less pounds of > > > > > weight for the 72 gallon Bowfront > further > > > substantiates > > > > > less glass at the > > > > > ends and the tapering (rounded front) > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > I might guess that the Bowfront is > posssibly in > > > the > > > > > vincinity of 14" wide > > > > > at the ends, but you may want to call > them at > > > (414) - > > > > > 421-9670 to check its > > > > > exact measurement Ray > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48660	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Can you have her measure each pane of glass? Would that be easier to explain? Maybe ask her to measure it's widest points across the top? It will still have to go into a corner, but do you have enough room in a corner? It will probably stick out more than 18 inches if that's what you're worried about, unless that's a 30 gallon tank maybe... Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > we is workin' on it. Either the lady is older (even older than me) or > she understands nothing about aquariums but she's trying. It's hard to > tell her exactly WHAT it is I want her to measure and how. Like > getting a total measurement across the top of the tank at its furthest > points, the sides, that would also help. I found two very good > aquarium calculators but they both involve the measurement of each > side or panel of glass. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 12:12 AM > > Is it possible to get her to measure > > it? LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady did not measure > > it! > > > > > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping someone might know by > > looking or maybe > > > has one like it. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > > tanks, the truth? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:12 PM > > > > what are the dimensions bill? > > > > Is it close to any of the dimensions on this > > page: > > > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > > > Those were my first thoughts too but as > > \\Steve// and > > > > others reported, > > > > > it must come from the height and not the > > sides, as > > > > almost all seem to > > > > > report 18" as a standard. > > > > > > > > > > Amber came up with an unusual idea in > > suggesting a > > > > "corner tank". I > > > > > found one called a "Pentagon", on Crag's > > List but I am > > > > unable to > > > > > determine the proper capacity of it. I'm > > thinking of > > > > posting it to > > > > > group and maybe somebody can add more > > information > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon > > bow front > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 5:32 PM > > > > > > Bill, All-Glass Aquarium > > > > > > manufacturersd lists their 72 Gallon > > Bowfront as > > > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H. It is made of > > GLASS as > > > > the > > > > > > manufacturer's name > > > > > > would imply,as would it's cataloged > > weight of 91 > > > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon tank is listed as -- > > 48" L x 18" > > > > W x 21" > > > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > > > pounds. By this, you can plainly see > > that the 75 > > > > > > Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, > > > > > > yet hold more water. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO assume then, that the > > Bowfront's > > > > 18" Wide > > > > > > measurement is > > > > > > that given at the center mark, with the > > ends > > > > tapering > > > > > > inward to make the > > > > > > "bow." The 2" addition height of the > > Boweront, > > > > yet > > > > > > holding less water MUST be > > > > > > proof that the ends MUST measure less > > in width > > > > than the 75 > > > > > > gallon tank, or the > > > > > > 2" difference in height would ENSURE > > that it (the > > > > Bowfront) > > > > > > holds even more > > > > > > water than the 75 gallon -- which we > > know it > > > > doesn't. > > > > > > The 7 less pounds of > > > > > > weight for the 72 gallon Bowfront > > further > > > > substantiates > > > > > > less glass at the > > > > > > ends and the tapering (rounded front) > > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > > > I might guess that the Bowfront is > > posssibly in > > > > the > > > > > > vincinity of 14" wide > > > > > > at the ends, but you may want to call > > them at > > > > (414) - > > > > > > 421-9670 to check its > > > > > > exact measurement Ray > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48661	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Hi Amber, It's two different things or locations. The 18 inches has to do with coming off an opposing side wall and into the dining room area if you will, so reason or consideration of a standard 55, which is not out of the running yet. BUT you're idea of a corner tank would mean removing the now 29-gallon from a corner in the dinning room and replacing it with the one in the photo. Which is an excellent idea save for one thing, over-all size.   What we are trying to accomplish is to get the largest possible tank into a given space. Since I only have room for one, we want it to be the biggest we can jam in there.  Also of concern is its depth or height.  I could get a rectangular tank at 3 foot across and 18 inches wide into that space easily but it would be or is listed at greater than 24 inches deep in some cases.  Since the tank would only be 3 foot across, you can readily see lighting issues for hopefully plants at some later date, as it could be a problem and an additional expense further down the line.   Just like you and most others on group I suffer the same affliction, LOC (lack of cash). The folks at Glass Cages will build anything I want, but the cost puts it never, Never-land.   Trying to work ahead a bit, from that photo, and by substituting numbers as I go, I'm just guessing that tank at 50 gallons, sixty at most.  Also at this time I would most probably use a Rena 2 or 3 canister filter.  I do not believe in HOB's for tanks greater than 30-gallons and this also saves on the problem of coming off any of the walls in the room and extra 5 or 6 inches to allow for cleaning and maintenance of a hob.   Bill --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 9:39 AM > Can you have her measure each pane of > glass? Would that be easier to > explain? > Maybe ask her to measure it's widest points across the top? > It will > still have to go into a corner, but do you have enough room > in a corner? > It will probably stick out more than 18 inches if that's > what you're > worried about, unless that's a 30 gallon tank maybe... > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > we is workin' on it. Either the lady is older (even > older than me) or > > she understands nothing about aquariums but she's > trying. It's hard to > > tell her exactly WHAT it is I want her to measure and > how. Like > > getting a total measurement across the top of the tank > at its furthest > > points, the sides, that would also help. I found two > very good > > aquarium calculators but they both involve the > measurement of each > > side or panel of glass. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > tanks, the truth? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 12:12 AM > > > Is it possible to get her to measure > > > it? LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady did not > measure > > > it! > > > > > > > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping someone might > know by > > > looking or maybe > > > > has one like it. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon > bow front > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:12 PM > > > > > what are the dimensions bill? > > > > > Is it close to any of the dimensions on > this > > > page: > > > > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > > > > > Those were my first thoughts too > but as > > > \\Steve// and > > > > > others reported, > > > > > > it must come from the height and > not the > > > sides, as > > > > > almost all seem to > > > > > > report 18" as a standard. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber came up with an unusual idea > in > > > suggesting a > > > > > "corner tank". I > > > > > > found one called a "Pentagon", on > Crag's > > > List but I am > > > > > unable to > > > > > > determine the proper capacity of > it. I'm > > > thinking of > > > > > posting it to > > > > > > group and maybe somebody can add > more > > > information > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > 72-gallon > > > bow front > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, > 5:32 PM > > > > > > > Bill, All-Glass Aquarium > > > > > > > manufacturersd lists their 72 > Gallon > > > Bowfront as > > > > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H. It > is made of > > > GLASS as > > > > > the > > > > > > > manufacturer's name > > > > > > > would imply,as would it's > cataloged > > > weight of 91 > > > > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon tank is > listed as -- > > > 48" L x 18" > > > > > W x 21" > > > > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > > > > pounds. By this, you can > plainly see > > > that the 75 > > > > > > > Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, > > > > > > > yet hold more water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO assume then, > that the > > > Bowfront's > > > > > 18" Wide > > > > > > > measurement is > > > > > > > that given at the center > mark, with the > > > ends > > > > > tapering > > > > > > > inward to make the > > > > > > > "bow." The 2" addition height > of the > > > Boweront, > > > > > yet > > > > > > > holding less water MUST be > > > > > > > proof that the ends MUST > measure less > > > in width > > > > > than the 75 > > > > > > > gallon tank, or the > > > > > > > 2" difference in height would > ENSURE > > > that it (the > > > > > Bowfront) > > > > > > > holds even more > > > > > > > water than the 75 gallon -- > which we > > > know it > > > > > doesn't. > > > > > > > The 7 less pounds of > > > > > > > weight for the 72 gallon > Bowfront > > > further > > > > > substantiates > > > > > > > less glass at the > > > > > > > ends and the tapering > (rounded front) > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I might guess that the > Bowfront is > > > posssibly in > > > > > the > > > > > > > vincinity of 14" wide > > > > > > > at the ends, but you may want > to call > > > them at > > > > > (414) - > > > > > > > 421-9670 to check its > > > > > > > exact measurement Ray > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it > > > > > when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > & if > > > CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your HELP > > > in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups > > > emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > your > > > delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes > > > up to 25 > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > where you will > > > still be > > > > > able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group > and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48662	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Are you able to fit a corner tank in there that's over 30 gallons though? I'm not sure how much room they will take up in your dining room. A corner tank might stick out 30+ inches from the corner, do you have space for that? Here are some more examples of corner tanks that I ran across, not a bad price compared to the other site too. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > It's two different things or locations. The 18 inches has to do with > coming off an opposing side wall and into the dining room area if you > will, so reason or consideration of a standard 55, which is not out of > the running yet. > > BUT you're idea of a corner tank would mean removing the now 29-gallon > from a corner in the dinning room and replacing it with the one in the > photo. Which is an excellent idea save for one thing, over-all size. > > What we are trying to accomplish is to get the largest possible tank > into a given space. Since I only have room for one, we want it to be > the biggest we can jam in there. Also of concern is its depth or > height. I could get a rectangular tank at 3 foot across and 18 inches > wide into that space easily but it would be or is listed at greater > than 24 inches deep in some cases. Since the tank would only be 3 foot > across, you can readily see lighting issues for hopefully plants at > some later date, as it could be a problem and an additional expense > further down the line. > > Just like you and most others on group I suffer the same affliction, > LOC (lack of cash). The folks at Glass Cages will build anything I > want, but the cost puts it never, Never-land. > > Trying to work ahead a bit, from that photo, and by substituting > numbers as I go, I'm just guessing that tank at 50 gallons, sixty at > most. Also at this time I would most probably use a Rena 2 or 3 > canister filter. I do not believe in HOB's for tanks greater than > 30-gallons and this also saves on the problem of coming off any of the > walls in the room and extra 5 or 6 inches to allow for cleaning and > maintenance of a hob. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 9:39 AM > > Can you have her measure each pane of > > glass? Would that be easier to > > explain? > > Maybe ask her to measure it's widest points across the top? > > It will > > still have to go into a corner, but do you have enough room > > in a corner? > > It will probably stick out more than 18 inches if that's > > what you're > > worried about, unless that's a 30 gallon tank maybe... > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > we is workin' on it. Either the lady is older (even > > older than me) or > > > she understands nothing about aquariums but she's > > trying. It's hard to > > > tell her exactly WHAT it is I want her to measure and > > how. Like > > > getting a total measurement across the top of the tank > > at its furthest > > > points, the sides, that would also help. I found two > > very good > > > aquarium calculators but they both involve the > > measurement of each > > > side or panel of glass. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > > tanks, the truth? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 12:12 AM > > > > Is it possible to get her to measure > > > > it? LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady did not > > measure > > > > it! > > > > > > > > > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping someone might > > know by > > > > looking or maybe > > > > > has one like it. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon > > bow front > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:12 PM > > > > > > what are the dimensions bill? > > > > > > Is it close to any of the dimensions on > > this > > > > page: > > > > > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those were my first thoughts too > > but as > > > > \\Steve// and > > > > > > others reported, > > > > > > > it must come from the height and > > not the > > > > sides, as > > > > > > almost all seem to > > > > > > > report 18" as a standard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber came up with an unusual idea > > in > > > > suggesting a > > > > > > "corner tank". I > > > > > > > found one called a "Pentagon", on > > Crag's > > > > List but I am > > > > > > unable to > > > > > > > determine the proper capacity of > > it. I'm > > > > thinking of > > > > > > posting it to > > > > > > > group and maybe somebody can add > > more > > > > information > > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > 72-gallon > > > > bow front > > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, > > 5:32 PM > > > > > > > > Bill, All-Glass Aquarium > > > > > > > > manufacturersd lists their 72 > > Gallon > > > > Bowfront as > > > > > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H. It > > is made of > > > > GLASS as > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > manufacturer's name > > > > > > > > would imply,as would it's > > cataloged > > > > weight of 91 > > > > > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon tank is > > listed as -- > > > > 48" L x 18" > > > > > > W x 21" > > > > > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > > > > > pounds. By this, you can > > plainly see > > > > that the 75 > > > > > > > > Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, > > > > > > > > yet hold more water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO assume then, > > that the > > > > Bowfront's > > > > > > 18" Wide > > > > > > > > measurement is > > > > > > > > that given at the center > > mark, with the > > > > ends > > > > > > tapering > > > > > > > > inward to make the > > > > > > > > "bow." The 2" addition height > > of the > > > > Boweront, > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > > holding less water MUST be > > > > > > > > proof that the ends MUST > > measure less > > > > in width > > > > > > than the 75 > > > > > > > > gallon tank, or the > > > > > > > > 2" difference in height would > > ENSURE > > > > that it (the > > > > > > Bowfront) > > > > > > > > holds even more > > > > > > > > water than the 75 gallon -- > > which we > > > > know it > > > > > > doesn't. > > > > > > > > The 7 less pounds of > > > > > > > > weight for the 72 gallon > > Bowfront > > > > further > > > > > > substantiates > > > > > > > > less glass at the > > > > > > > > ends and the tapering > > (rounded front) > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I might guess that the > > Bowfront is > > > > posssibly in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > vincinity of 14" wide > > > > > > > > at the ends, but you may want > > to call > > > > them at > > > > > > (414) - > > > > > > > > 421-9670 to check its > > > > > > > > exact measurement Ray > > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > > & if > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > > , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > > Your HELP > > > > in this > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups > > > > emails, > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > > > delivery > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > home > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes > > > > up to 25 > > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will > > > > still be > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > read messages on the group > > and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48663	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

LOL, sorry forgot the link, need more coffee I guess. http://www.pets-warehouse.com/Vpasp/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=870 Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > It's two different things or locations. The 18 inches has to do with > coming off an opposing side wall and into the dining room area if you > will, so reason or consideration of a standard 55, which is not out of > the running yet. > > BUT you're idea of a corner tank would mean removing the now 29-gallon > from a corner in the dinning room and replacing it with the one in the > photo. Which is an excellent idea save for one thing, over-all size. > > What we are trying to accomplish is to get the largest possible tank > into a given space. Since I only have room for one, we want it to be > the biggest we can jam in there. Also of concern is its depth or > height. I could get a rectangular tank at 3 foot across and 18 inches > wide into that space easily but it would be or is listed at greater > than 24 inches deep in some cases. Since the tank would only be 3 foot > across, you can readily see lighting issues for hopefully plants at > some later date, as it could be a problem and an additional expense > further down the line. > > Just like you and most others on group I suffer the same affliction, > LOC (lack of cash). The folks at Glass Cages will build anything I > want, but the cost puts it never, Never-land. > > Trying to work ahead a bit, from that photo, and by substituting > numbers as I go, I'm just guessing that tank at 50 gallons, sixty at > most. Also at this time I would most probably use a Rena 2 or 3 > canister filter. I do not believe in HOB's for tanks greater than > 30-gallons and this also saves on the problem of coming off any of the > walls in the room and extra 5 or 6 inches to allow for cleaning and > maintenance of a hob. > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 9:39 AM > > Can you have her measure each pane of > > glass? Would that be easier to > > explain? > > Maybe ask her to measure it's widest points across the top? > > It will > > still have to go into a corner, but do you have enough room > > in a corner? > > It will probably stick out more than 18 inches if that's > > what you're > > worried about, unless that's a 30 gallon tank maybe... > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > we is workin' on it. Either the lady is older (even > > older than me) or > > > she understands nothing about aquariums but she's > > trying. It's hard to > > > tell her exactly WHAT it is I want her to measure and > > how. Like > > > getting a total measurement across the top of the tank > > at its furthest > > > points, the sides, that would also help. I found two > > very good > > > aquarium calculators but they both involve the > > measurement of each > > > side or panel of glass. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > > tanks, the truth? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 12:12 AM > > > > Is it possible to get her to measure > > > > it? LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady did not > > measure > > > > it! > > > > > > > > > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping someone might > > know by > > > > looking or maybe > > > > > has one like it. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon > > bow front > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 8:12 PM > > > > > > what are the dimensions bill? > > > > > > Is it close to any of the dimensions on > > this > > > > page: > > > > > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those were my first thoughts too > > but as > > > > \\Steve// and > > > > > > others reported, > > > > > > > it must come from the height and > > not the > > > > sides, as > > > > > > almost all seem to > > > > > > > report 18" as a standard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber came up with an unusual idea > > in > > > > suggesting a > > > > > > "corner tank". I > > > > > > > found one called a "Pentagon", on > > Crag's > > > > List but I am > > > > > > unable to > > > > > > > determine the proper capacity of > > it. I'm > > > > thinking of > > > > > > posting it to > > > > > > > group and maybe somebody can add > > more > > > > information > > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > 72-gallon > > > > bow front > > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, > > 5:32 PM > > > > > > > > Bill, All-Glass Aquarium > > > > > > > > manufacturersd lists their 72 > > Gallon > > > > Bowfront as > > > > > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x 23" H. It > > is made of > > > > GLASS as > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > manufacturer's name > > > > > > > > would imply,as would it's > > cataloged > > > > weight of 91 > > > > > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon tank is > > listed as -- > > > > 48" L x 18" > > > > > > W x 21" > > > > > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > > > > > pounds. By this, you can > > plainly see > > > > that the 75 > > > > > > > > Gallon tank is 2" SHORTER, > > > > > > > > yet hold more water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO assume then, > > that the > > > > Bowfront's > > > > > > 18" Wide > > > > > > > > measurement is > > > > > > > > that given at the center > > mark, with the > > > > ends > > > > > > tapering > > > > > > > > inward to make the > > > > > > > > "bow." The 2" addition height > > of the > > > > Boweront, > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > > holding less water MUST be > > > > > > > > proof that the ends MUST > > measure less > > > > in width > > > > > > than the 75 > > > > > > > > gallon tank, or the > > > > > > > > 2" difference in height would > > ENSURE > > > > that it (the > > > > > > Bowfront) > > > > > > > > holds even more > > > > > > > > water than the 75 gallon -- > > which we > > > > know it > > > > > > doesn't. > > > > > > > > The 7 less pounds of > > > > > > > > weight for the 72 gallon > > Bowfront > > > > further > > > > > > substantiates > > > > > > > > less glass at the > > > > > > > > ends and the tapering > > (rounded front) > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I might guess that the > > Bowfront is > > > > posssibly in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > vincinity of 14" wide > > > > > > > > at the ends, but you may want > > to call > > > > them at > > > > > > (414) - > > > > > > > > 421-9670 to check its > > > > > > > > exact measurement Ray > > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > > & if > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > > , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > > Your HELP > > > > in this > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups > > > > emails, > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > > > delivery > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > home > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes > > > > up to 25 > > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will > > > > still be > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > read messages on the group > > and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48664	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Yes, Amber The wings or sides of the 90 degree corner come to 36 inches on one side and 30 inches on the other. Drawing a line between the two or across, I would have almost 30 inches coming out from the 90 degree corner directly in back. But here is some new news. Got on the phone with AGA this morning from info provided by our "Uncle Ray", and he was right all along in his estimates about the bow fronts. The manager told me the accurate measurement of a 72 bow-front is 18" wide BUT that is at its fullest, or bowed front. The two side panels of glass are 12 and a half inches each by 22 inches high!  Mystery solved! Bill --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 10:43 AM > Are you able to fit a corner tank in > there that's over 30 gallons though? > I'm not sure how much room they will take up in your dining > room. A > corner tank might stick out 30+ inches from the corner, do > you have > space for that? > Here are some more examples of corner tanks that I ran > across, not a bad > price compared to the other site too. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > It's two different things or locations. The 18 inches > has to do with > > coming off an opposing side wall and into the dining > room area if you > > will, so reason or consideration of a standard 55, > which is not out of > > the running yet. > > > > BUT you're idea of a corner tank would mean removing > the now 29-gallon > > from a corner in the dinning room and replacing it > with the one in the > > photo. Which is an excellent idea save for one thing, > over-all size. > > > > What we are trying to accomplish is to get the largest > possible tank > > into a given space. Since I only have room for one, we > want it to be > > the biggest we can jam in there. Also of concern is > its depth or > > height. I could get a rectangular tank at 3 foot > across and 18 inches > > wide into that space easily but it would be or is > listed at greater > > than 24 inches deep in some cases. Since the tank > would only be 3 foot > > across, you can readily see lighting issues for > hopefully plants at > > some later date, as it could be a problem and an > additional expense > > further down the line. > > > > Just like you and most others on group I suffer the > same affliction, > > LOC (lack of cash). The folks at Glass Cages will > build anything I > > want, but the cost puts it never, Never-land. > > > > Trying to work ahead a bit, from that photo, and by > substituting > > numbers as I go, I'm just guessing that tank at 50 > gallons, sixty at > > most. Also at this time I would most probably use a > Rena 2 or 3 > > canister filter. I do not believe in HOB's for tanks > greater than > > 30-gallons and this also saves on the problem of > coming off any of the > > walls in the room and extra 5 or 6 inches to allow for > cleaning and > > maintenance of a hob. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > tanks, the truth? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 9:39 AM > > > Can you have her measure each pane of > > > glass? Would that be easier to > > > explain? > > > Maybe ask her to measure it's widest points > across the top? > > > It will > > > still have to go into a corner, but do you have > enough room > > > in a corner? > > > It will probably stick out more than 18 inches if > that's > > > what you're > > > worried about, unless that's a 30 gallon tank > maybe... > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > we is workin' on it. Either the lady is > older (even > > > older than me) or > > > > she understands nothing about aquariums but > she's > > > trying. It's hard to > > > > tell her exactly WHAT it is I want her to > measure and > > > how. Like > > > > getting a total measurement across the top > of the tank > > > at its furthest > > > > points, the sides, that would also help. I > found two > > > very good > > > > aquarium calculators but they both involve > the > > > measurement of each > > > > side or panel of glass. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon > bow front > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 12:12 AM > > > > > Is it possible to get her to measure > > > > > it? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady > did not > > > measure > > > > > it! > > > > > > > > > > > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping > someone might > > > know by > > > > > looking or maybe > > > > > > has one like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > 72-gallon > > > bow front > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, > 8:12 PM > > > > > > > what are the dimensions > bill? > > > > > > > Is it close to any of the > dimensions on > > > this > > > > > page: > > > > > > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those were my first > thoughts too > > > but as > > > > > \\Steve// and > > > > > > > others reported, > > > > > > > > it must come from the > height and > > > not the > > > > > sides, as > > > > > > > almost all seem to > > > > > > > > report 18" as a > standard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber came up with an > unusual idea > > > in > > > > > suggesting a > > > > > > > "corner tank". I > > > > > > > > found one called a > "Pentagon", on > > > Crag's > > > > > List but I am > > > > > > > unable to > > > > > > > > determine the proper > capacity of > > > it. I'm > > > > > thinking of > > > > > > > posting it to > > > > > > > > group and maybe somebody > can add > > > more > > > > > information > > > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > > > 72-gallon > > > > > bow front > > > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June > 28, 2010, > > > 5:32 PM > > > > > > > > > Bill, All-Glass > Aquarium > > > > > > > > > manufacturersd > lists their 72 > > > Gallon > > > > > Bowfront as > > > > > > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x > 23" H. It > > > is made of > > > > > GLASS as > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > manufacturer's > name > > > > > > > > > would imply,as > would it's > > > cataloged > > > > > weight of 91 > > > > > > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon > tank is > > > listed as -- > > > > > 48" L x 18" > > > > > > > W x 21" > > > > > > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > > > > > > pounds. By this, > you can > > > plainly see > > > > > that the 75 > > > > > > > > > Gallon tank is 2" > SHORTER, > > > > > > > > > yet hold more > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO > assume then, > > > that the > > > > > Bowfront's > > > > > > > 18" Wide > > > > > > > > > measurement is > > > > > > > > > that given at the > center > > > mark, with the > > > > > ends > > > > > > > tapering > > > > > > > > > inward to make the > > > > > > > > > "bow." The 2" > addition height > > > of the > > > > > Boweront, > > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > > > holding less water > MUST be > > > > > > > > > proof that the ends > MUST > > > measure less > > > > > in width > > > > > > > than the 75 > > > > > > > > > gallon tank, or > the > > > > > > > > > 2" difference in > height would > > > ENSURE > > > > > that it (the > > > > > > > Bowfront) > > > > > > > > > holds even more > > > > > > > > > water than the 75 > gallon -- > > > which we > > > > > know it > > > > > > > doesn't. > > > > > > > > > The 7 less pounds > of > > > > > > > > > weight for the 72 > gallon > > > Bowfront > > > > > further > > > > > > > substantiates > > > > > > > > > less glass at the > > > > > > > > > ends and the > tapering > > > (rounded front) > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I might guess that > the > > > Bowfront is > > > > > posssibly in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > vincinity of 14" > wide > > > > > > > > > at the ends, but > you may want > > > to call > > > > > them at > > > > > > > (414) - > > > > > > > > > 421-9670 to check > its > > > > > > > > > exact measurement > Ray > > > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this > line and > > > EVERYTHING > > > > > below it > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > replying, Thank > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you > REPLY to a > > > post, > > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > NOT important to > the reply > > > & if > > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > > the original > message MODIFY > > > the SUBJECT > > > > > LINE > > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > > subject (was re: > old > > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in > Advance for > > > Your HELP > > > > > in this > > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want > all of the > > > groups > > > > > emails, > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you > can change > > > your > > > > > delivery > > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit > My > > > Membership" on the > > > > > home > > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > to receive the > digest, which > > > includes > > > > > up to 25 > > > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > > > time in a single > email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you will > > > > > still be > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > read messages on > the group > > > and post > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > to receive > individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it > > > > > when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > & if > > > CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your HELP > > > in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups > > > emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > your > > > delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes > > > up to 25 > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > where you will > > > still be > > > > > able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group > and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48665	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/29/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

You are forgiven and thanks for the link, BUT a word from ol'bill? Never attempt any kind of coordinated movement unless you have consumed or working on your 2nd cup. I don't even trying walking until I have my first cup! And creative thought is out the window until the end of my 2nd!  Watch for message just sent a minute ago. Bill --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 10:59 AM > LOL, sorry forgot the link, need more > coffee I guess. > > http://www.pets-warehouse.com/Vpasp/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=870 > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > It's two different things or locations. The 18 inches > has to do with > > coming off an opposing side wall and into the dining > room area if you > > will, so reason or consideration of a standard 55, > which is not out of > > the running yet. > > > > BUT you're idea of a corner tank would mean removing > the now 29-gallon > > from a corner in the dinning room and replacing it > with the one in the > > photo. Which is an excellent idea save for one thing, > over-all size. > > > > What we are trying to accomplish is to get the largest > possible tank > > into a given space. Since I only have room for one, we > want it to be > > the biggest we can jam in there. Also of concern is > its depth or > > height. I could get a rectangular tank at 3 foot > across and 18 inches > > wide into that space easily but it would be or is > listed at greater > > than 24 inches deep in some cases. Since the tank > would only be 3 foot > > across, you can readily see lighting issues for > hopefully plants at > > some later date, as it could be a problem and an > additional expense > > further down the line. > > > > Just like you and most others on group I suffer the > same affliction, > > LOC (lack of cash). The folks at Glass Cages will > build anything I > > want, but the cost puts it never, Never-land. > > > > Trying to work ahead a bit, from that photo, and by > substituting > > numbers as I go, I'm just guessing that tank at 50 > gallons, sixty at > > most. Also at this time I would most probably use a > Rena 2 or 3 > > canister filter. I do not believe in HOB's for tanks > greater than > > 30-gallons and this also saves on the problem of > coming off any of the > > walls in the room and extra 5 or 6 inches to allow for > cleaning and > > maintenance of a hob. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > tanks, the truth? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 9:39 AM > > > Can you have her measure each pane of > > > glass? Would that be easier to > > > explain? > > > Maybe ask her to measure it's widest points > across the top? > > > It will > > > still have to go into a corner, but do you have > enough room > > > in a corner? > > > It will probably stick out more than 18 inches if > that's > > > what you're > > > worried about, unless that's a 30 gallon tank > maybe... > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > we is workin' on it. Either the lady is > older (even > > > older than me) or > > > > she understands nothing about aquariums but > she's > > > trying. It's hard to > > > > tell her exactly WHAT it is I want her to > measure and > > > how. Like > > > > getting a total measurement across the top > of the tank > > > at its furthest > > > > points, the sides, that would also help. I > found two > > > very good > > > > aquarium calculators but they both involve > the > > > measurement of each > > > > side or panel of glass. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon > bow front > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 12:12 AM > > > > > Is it possible to get her to measure > > > > > it? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady > did not > > > measure > > > > > it! > > > > > > > > > > > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping > someone might > > > know by > > > > > looking or maybe > > > > > > has one like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber > Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > 72-gallon > > > bow front > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, > 8:12 PM > > > > > > > what are the dimensions > bill? > > > > > > > Is it close to any of the > dimensions on > > > this > > > > > page: > > > > > > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those were my first > thoughts too > > > but as > > > > > \\Steve// and > > > > > > > others reported, > > > > > > > > it must come from the > height and > > > not the > > > > > sides, as > > > > > > > almost all seem to > > > > > > > > report 18" as a > standard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber came up with an > unusual idea > > > in > > > > > suggesting a > > > > > > > "corner tank". I > > > > > > > > found one called a > "Pentagon", on > > > Crag's > > > > > List but I am > > > > > > > unable to > > > > > > > > determine the proper > capacity of > > > it. I'm > > > > > thinking of > > > > > > > posting it to > > > > > > > > group and maybe somebody > can add > > > more > > > > > information > > > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > [AquaticLife] > > > 72-gallon > > > > > bow front > > > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June > 28, 2010, > > > 5:32 PM > > > > > > > > > Bill, All-Glass > Aquarium > > > > > > > > > manufacturersd > lists their 72 > > > Gallon > > > > > Bowfront as > > > > > > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x > 23" H. It > > > is made of > > > > > GLASS as > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > manufacturer's > name > > > > > > > > > would imply,as > would it's > > > cataloged > > > > > weight of 91 > > > > > > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon > tank is > > > listed as -- > > > > > 48" L x 18" > > > > > > > W x 21" > > > > > > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > > > > > > pounds. By this, > you can > > > plainly see > > > > > that the 75 > > > > > > > > > Gallon tank is 2" > SHORTER, > > > > > > > > > yet hold more > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO > assume then, > > > that the > > > > > Bowfront's > > > > > > > 18" Wide > > > > > > > > > measurement is > > > > > > > > > that given at the > center > > > mark, with the > > > > > ends > > > > > > > tapering > > > > > > > > > inward to make the > > > > > > > > > "bow." The 2" > addition height > > > of the > > > > > Boweront, > > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > > > holding less water > MUST be > > > > > > > > > proof that the ends > MUST > > > measure less > > > > > in width > > > > > > > than the 75 > > > > > > > > > gallon tank, or > the > > > > > > > > > 2" difference in > height would > > > ENSURE > > > > > that it (the > > > > > > > Bowfront) > > > > > > > > > holds even more > > > > > > > > > water than the 75 > gallon -- > > > which we > > > > > know it > > > > > > > doesn't. > > > > > > > > > The 7 less pounds > of > > > > > > > > > weight for the 72 > gallon > > > Bowfront > > > > > further > > > > > > > substantiates > > > > > > > > > less glass at the > > > > > > > > > ends and the > tapering > > > (rounded front) > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I might guess that > the > > > Bowfront is > > > > > posssibly in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > vincinity of 14" > wide > > > > > > > > > at the ends, but > you may want > > > to call > > > > > them at > > > > > > > (414) - > > > > > > > > > 421-9670 to check > its > > > > > > > > > exact measurement > Ray > > > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this > line and > > > EVERYTHING > > > > > below it > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > replying, Thank > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you > REPLY to a > > > post, > > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > NOT important to > the reply > > > & if > > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > > the original > message MODIFY > > > the SUBJECT > > > > > LINE > > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > > subject (was re: > old > > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in > Advance for > > > Your HELP > > > > > in this > > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want > all of the > > > groups > > > > > emails, > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you > can change > > > your > > > > > delivery > > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit > My > > > Membership" on the > > > > > home > > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > to receive the > digest, which > > > includes > > > > > up to 25 > > > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > > > time in a single > email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you will > > > > > still be > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > read messages on > the group > > > and post > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > to receive > individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING > > > below it > > > > > when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > post, > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > & if > > > CHANGING the > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > > > LINE > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > Your HELP > > > in this > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups > > > emails, > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > your > > > delivery > > > > > option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > > > home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes > > > up to 25 > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > where you will > > > still be > > > > > able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group > and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it > > > when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT > > > that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > CHANGING the > > > TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > in this > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > emails, > > > instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery > > > option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > up to 25 > > > posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > still be > > > able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48666	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/30/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

Does that mean you don't have room for a corner tank, or yes? lol. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > The wings or sides of the 90 degree corner come to 36 inches on one > side and 30 inches on the other. Drawing a line between the two or > across, I would have almost 30 inches coming out from the 90 degree > corner directly in back. > > But here is some new news. Got on the phone with AGA this morning from > info provided by our "Uncle Ray", and he was right all along in his > estimates about the bow fronts. > > The manager told me the accurate measurement of a 72 bow-front is 18" > wide BUT that is at its fullest, or bowed front. The two side panels > of glass are 12 and a half inches each by 22 inches high! Mystery solved! > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 10:43 AM > > Are you able to fit a corner tank in > > there that's over 30 gallons though? > > I'm not sure how much room they will take up in your dining > > room. A > > corner tank might stick out 30+ inches from the corner, do > > you have > > space for that? > > Here are some more examples of corner tanks that I ran > > across, not a bad > > price compared to the other site too. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > It's two different things or locations. The 18 inches > > has to do with > > > coming off an opposing side wall and into the dining > > room area if you > > > will, so reason or consideration of a standard 55, > > which is not out of > > > the running yet. > > > > > > BUT you're idea of a corner tank would mean removing > > the now 29-gallon > > > from a corner in the dinning room and replacing it > > with the one in the > > > photo. Which is an excellent idea save for one thing, > > over-all size. > > > > > > What we are trying to accomplish is to get the largest > > possible tank > > > into a given space. Since I only have room for one, we > > want it to be > > > the biggest we can jam in there. Also of concern is > > its depth or > > > height. I could get a rectangular tank at 3 foot > > across and 18 inches > > > wide into that space easily but it would be or is > > listed at greater > > > than 24 inches deep in some cases. Since the tank > > would only be 3 foot > > > across, you can readily see lighting issues for > > hopefully plants at > > > some later date, as it could be a problem and an > > additional expense > > > further down the line. > > > > > > Just like you and most others on group I suffer the > > same affliction, > > > LOC (lack of cash). The folks at Glass Cages will > > build anything I > > > want, but the cost puts it never, Never-land. > > > > > > Trying to work ahead a bit, from that photo, and by > > substituting > > > numbers as I go, I'm just guessing that tank at 50 > > gallons, sixty at > > > most. Also at this time I would most probably use a > > Rena 2 or 3 > > > canister filter. I do not believe in HOB's for tanks > > greater than > > > 30-gallons and this also saves on the problem of > > coming off any of the > > > walls in the room and extra 5 or 6 inches to allow for > > cleaning and > > > maintenance of a hob. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > > tanks, the truth? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 9:39 AM > > > > Can you have her measure each pane of > > > > glass? Would that be easier to > > > > explain? > > > > Maybe ask her to measure it's widest points > > across the top? > > > > It will > > > > still have to go into a corner, but do you have > > enough room > > > > in a corner? > > > > It will probably stick out more than 18 inches if > > that's > > > > what you're > > > > worried about, unless that's a 30 gallon tank > > maybe... > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > we is workin' on it. Either the lady is > > older (even > > > > older than me) or > > > > > she understands nothing about aquariums but > > she's > > > > trying. It's hard to > > > > > tell her exactly WHAT it is I want her to > > measure and > > > > how. Like > > > > > getting a total measurement across the top > > of the tank > > > > at its furthest > > > > > points, the sides, that would also help. I > > found two > > > > very good > > > > > aquarium calculators but they both involve > > the > > > > measurement of each > > > > > side or panel of glass. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon > > bow front > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 12:12 AM > > > > > > Is it possible to get her to measure > > > > > > it? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady > > did not > > > > measure > > > > > > it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping > > someone might > > > > know by > > > > > > looking or maybe > > > > > > > has one like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber > > Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > 72-gallon > > > > bow front > > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, > > 8:12 PM > > > > > > > > what are the dimensions > > bill? > > > > > > > > Is it close to any of the > > dimensions on > > > > this > > > > > > page: > > > > > > > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those were my first > > thoughts too > > > > but as > > > > > > \\Steve// and > > > > > > > > others reported, > > > > > > > > > it must come from the > > height and > > > > not the > > > > > > sides, as > > > > > > > > almost all seem to > > > > > > > > > report 18" as a > > standard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber came up with an > > unusual idea > > > > in > > > > > > suggesting a > > > > > > > > "corner tank". I > > > > > > > > > found one called a > > "Pentagon", on > > > > Crag's > > > > > > List but I am > > > > > > > > unable to > > > > > > > > > determine the proper > > capacity of > > > > it. I'm > > > > > > thinking of > > > > > > > > posting it to > > > > > > > > > group and maybe somebody > > can add > > > > more > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > > 72-gallon > > > > > > bow front > > > > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June > > 28, 2010, > > > > 5:32 PM > > > > > > > > > > Bill, All-Glass > > Aquarium > > > > > > > > > > manufacturersd > > lists their 72 > > > > Gallon > > > > > > Bowfront as > > > > > > > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x > > 23" H. It > > > > is made of > > > > > > GLASS as > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > manufacturer's > > name > > > > > > > > > > would imply,as > > would it's > > > > cataloged > > > > > > weight of 91 > > > > > > > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon > > tank is > > > > listed as -- > > > > > > 48" L x 18" > > > > > > > > W x 21" > > > > > > > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > > > > > > > pounds. By this, > > you can > > > > plainly see > > > > > > that the 75 > > > > > > > > > > Gallon tank is 2" > > SHORTER, > > > > > > > > > > yet hold more > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO > > assume then, > > > > that the > > > > > > Bowfront's > > > > > > > > 18" Wide > > > > > > > > > > measurement is > > > > > > > > > > that given at the > > center > > > > mark, with the > > > > > > ends > > > > > > > > tapering > > > > > > > > > > inward to make the > > > > > > > > > > "bow." The 2" > > addition height > > > > of the > > > > > > Boweront, > > > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > > > > holding less water > > MUST be > > > > > > > > > > proof that the ends > > MUST > > > > measure less > > > > > > in width > > > > > > > > than the 75 > > > > > > > > > > gallon tank, or > > the > > > > > > > > > > 2" difference in > > height would > > > > ENSURE > > > > > > that it (the > > > > > > > > Bowfront) > > > > > > > > > > holds even more > > > > > > > > > > water than the 75 > > gallon -- > > > > which we > > > > > > know it > > > > > > > > doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > The 7 less pounds > > of > > > > > > > > > > weight for the 72 > > gallon > > > > Bowfront > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > substantiates > > > > > > > > > > less glass at the > > > > > > > > > > ends and the > > tapering > > > > (rounded front) > > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I might guess that > > the > > > > Bowfront is > > > > > > posssibly in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > vincinity of 14" > > wide > > > > > > > > > > at the ends, but > > you may want > > > > to call > > > > > > them at > > > > > > > > (414) - > > > > > > > > > > 421-9670 to check > > its > > > > > > > > > > exact measurement > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this > > line and > > > > EVERYTHING > > > > > > below it > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > replying, Thank > > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you > > REPLY to a > > > > post, > > > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > > NOT important to > > the reply > > > > & if > > > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > > > the original > > message MODIFY > > > > the SUBJECT > > > > > > LINE > > > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > > > subject (was re: > > old > > > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in > > Advance for > > > > Your HELP > > > > > > in this > > > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want > > all of the > > > > groups > > > > > > emails, > > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you > > can change > > > > your > > > > > > delivery > > > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit > > My > > > > Membership" on the > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > to receive the > > digest, which > > > > includes > > > > > > up to 25 > > > > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > > > > time in a single > > email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail > > option > > > > where you will > > > > > > still be > > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > > read messages on > > the group > > > > and post > > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > to receive > > individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > > & if > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > > , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > > Your HELP > > > > in this > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups > > > > emails, > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > > > delivery > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > home > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes > > > > up to 25 > > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will > > > > still be > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > read messages on the group > > and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48667	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/30/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

I think I would but then-------------------------I never heard back on the measurement's that I requested from Craigslist.  So, back to square one------again!   It may wind-up on just a standard size 55 or may be back to the bow-front, just not sure yet and then of course the money issue.   Bill --- On Wed, 6/30/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 12:33 PM Does that mean you don't have room for a corner tank, or yes? lol. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > The wings or sides of the 90 degree corner come to 36 inches on one > side and 30 inches on the other. Drawing a line between the two or > across, I would have almost 30 inches coming out from the 90 degree > corner directly in back. > > But here is some new news. Got on the phone with AGA this morning from > info provided by our "Uncle Ray", and he was right all along in his > estimates about the bow fronts. > > The manager told me the accurate measurement of a 72 bow-front is 18" > wide BUT that is at its fullest, or bowed front. The two side panels > of glass are 12 and a half inches each by 22 inches high! Mystery solved! > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 10:43 AM > > Are you able to fit a corner tank in > > there that's over 30 gallons though? > > I'm not sure how much room they will take up in your dining > > room. A > > corner tank might stick out 30+ inches from the corner, do > > you have > > space for that? > > Here are some more examples of corner tanks that I ran > > across, not a bad > > price compared to the other site too. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > It's two different things or locations. The 18 inches > > has to do with > > > coming off an opposing side wall and into the dining > > room area if you > > > will, so reason or consideration of a standard 55, > > which is not out of > > > the running yet. > > > > > > BUT you're idea of a corner tank would mean removing > > the now 29-gallon > > > from a corner in the dinning room and replacing it > > with the one in the > > > photo. Which is an excellent idea save for one thing, > > over-all size. > > > > > > What we are trying to accomplish is to get the largest > > possible tank > > > into a given space. Since I only have room for one, we > > want it to be > > > the biggest we can jam in there. Also of concern is > > its depth or > > > height. I could get a rectangular tank at 3 foot > > across and 18 inches > > > wide into that space easily but it would be or is > > listed at greater > > > than 24 inches deep in some cases. Since the tank > > would only be 3 foot > > > across, you can readily see lighting issues for > > hopefully plants at > > > some later date, as it could be a problem and an > > additional expense > > > further down the line. > > > > > > Just like you and most others on group I suffer the > > same affliction, > > > LOC (lack of cash). The folks at Glass Cages will > > build anything I > > > want, but the cost puts it never, Never-land. > > > > > > Trying to work ahead a bit, from that photo, and by > > substituting > > > numbers as I go, I'm just guessing that tank at 50 > > gallons, sixty at > > > most. Also at this time I would most probably use a > > Rena 2 or 3 > > > canister filter. I do not believe in HOB's for tanks > > greater than > > > 30-gallons and this also saves on the problem of > > coming off any of the > > > walls in the room and extra 5 or 6 inches to allow for > > cleaning and > > > maintenance of a hob. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front > > tanks, the truth? > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 9:39 AM > > > > Can you have her measure each pane of > > > > glass? Would that be easier to > > > > explain? > > > > Maybe ask her to measure it's widest points > > across the top? > > > > It will > > > > still have to go into a corner, but do you have > > enough room > > > > in a corner? > > > > It will probably stick out more than 18 inches if > > that's > > > > what you're > > > > worried about, unless that's a 30 gallon tank > > maybe... > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > we is workin' on it. Either the lady is > > older (even > > > > older than me) or > > > > > she understands nothing about aquariums but > > she's > > > > trying. It's hard to > > > > > tell her exactly WHAT it is I want her to > > measure and > > > > how. Like > > > > > getting a total measurement across the top > > of the tank > > > > at its furthest > > > > > points, the sides, that would also help. I > > found two > > > > very good > > > > > aquarium calculators but they both involve > > the > > > > measurement of each > > > > > side or panel of glass. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon > > bow front > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 12:12 AM > > > > > > Is it possible to get her to measure > > > > > > it? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's the trouble Amber, the lady > > did not > > > > measure > > > > > > it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Goofy, but true. I was hoping > > someone might > > > > know by > > > > > > looking or maybe > > > > > > > has one like it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Amber > > Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] > > 72-gallon > > > > bow front > > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, > > 8:12 PM > > > > > > > > what are the dimensions > > bill? > > > > > > > > Is it close to any of the > > dimensions on > > > > this > > > > > > page: > > > > > > > > http://www.myfishtank.com/products.aspx?CategoryID=30021 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those were my first > > thoughts too > > > > but as > > > > > > \\Steve// and > > > > > > > > others reported, > > > > > > > > > it must come from the > > height and > > > > not the > > > > > > sides, as > > > > > > > > almost all seem to > > > > > > > > > report 18" as a > > standard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber came up with an > > unusual idea > > > > in > > > > > > suggesting a > > > > > > > > "corner tank". I > > > > > > > > > found one called a > > "Pentagon", on > > > > Crag's > > > > > > List but I am > > > > > > > > unable to > > > > > > > > > determine the proper > > capacity of > > > > it. I'm > > > > > > thinking of > > > > > > > > posting it to > > > > > > > > > group and maybe somebody > > can add > > > > more > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/28/10, sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: > > [AquaticLife] > > > > 72-gallon > > > > > > bow front > > > > > > > > tanks, the truth? > > > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, June > > 28, 2010, > > > > 5:32 PM > > > > > > > > > > Bill, All-Glass > > Aquarium > > > > > > > > > > manufacturersd > > lists their 72 > > > > Gallon > > > > > > Bowfront as > > > > > > > > > > -- 48" L x 18" W x > > 23" H. It > > > > is made of > > > > > > GLASS as > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > manufacturer's > > name > > > > > > > > > > would imply,as > > would it's > > > > cataloged > > > > > > weight of 91 > > > > > > > > pounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Their 75 Gallon > > tank is > > > > listed as -- > > > > > > 48" L x 18" > > > > > > > > W x 21" > > > > > > > > > > H. It weighs 98 > > > > > > > > > > pounds. By this, > > you can > > > > plainly see > > > > > > that the 75 > > > > > > > > > > Gallon tank is 2" > > SHORTER, > > > > > > > > > > yet hold more > > water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would HAVE TO > > assume then, > > > > that the > > > > > > Bowfront's > > > > > > > > 18" Wide > > > > > > > > > > measurement is > > > > > > > > > > that given at the > > center > > > > mark, with the > > > > > > ends > > > > > > > > tapering > > > > > > > > > > inward to make the > > > > > > > > > > "bow." The 2" > > addition height > > > > of the > > > > > > Boweront, > > > > > > > > yet > > > > > > > > > > holding less water > > MUST be > > > > > > > > > > proof that the ends > > MUST > > > > measure less > > > > > > in width > > > > > > > > than the 75 > > > > > > > > > > gallon tank, or > > the > > > > > > > > > > 2" difference in > > height would > > > > ENSURE > > > > > > that it (the > > > > > > > > Bowfront) > > > > > > > > > > holds even more > > > > > > > > > > water than the 75 > > gallon -- > > > > which we > > > > > > know it > > > > > > > > doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > The 7 less pounds > > of > > > > > > > > > > weight for the 72 > > gallon > > > > Bowfront > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > substantiates > > > > > > > > > > less glass at the > > > > > > > > > > ends and the > > tapering > > > > (rounded front) > > > > > > bottom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I might guess that > > the > > > > Bowfront is > > > > > > posssibly in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > vincinity of 14" > > wide > > > > > > > > > > at the ends, but > > you may want > > > > to call > > > > > > them at > > > > > > > > (414) - > > > > > > > > > > 421-9670 to check > > its > > > > > > > > > > exact measurement > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this > > line and > > > > EVERYTHING > > > > > > below it > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > replying, Thank > > You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you > > REPLY to a > > > > post, > > > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > > > NOT important to > > the reply > > > > & if > > > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > > > the original > > message MODIFY > > > > the SUBJECT > > > > > > LINE > > > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > > > subject (was re: > > old > > > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > > > We Thank You in > > Advance for > > > > Your HELP > > > > > > in this > > > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want > > all of the > > > > groups > > > > > > emails, > > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you > > can change > > > > your > > > > > > delivery > > > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit > > My > > > > Membership" on the > > > > > > home > > > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > to receive the > > digest, which > > > > includes > > > > > > up to 25 > > > > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > > > > time in a single > > email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail > > option > > > > where you will > > > > > > still be > > > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > > > read messages on > > the group > > > > and post > > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > to receive > > individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING > > > > below it > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a > > post, > > > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply > > & if > > > > CHANGING the > > > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY > > the SUBJECT > > > > LINE > > > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > > subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > > , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for > > Your HELP > > > > in this > > > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups > > > > emails, > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change > > your > > > > delivery > > > > > > option by > > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the > > > > home > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes > > > > up to 25 > > > > > > posts at a > > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will > > > > still be > > > > > > able to > > > > > > > > read messages on the group > > and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it > > > > when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT > > > > that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if > > CHANGING the > > > > TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE > > > > -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP > > in this > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups > > emails, > > > > instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery > > > > option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes > > up to 25 > > > > posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will > > still be > > > > able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48668	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 6/30/2010
Subject: Re: 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth?

The 55G kit from WalMart is a good bargain. The filter system use to be made by Marineland and was basically a Bio-Wheel HOB without the Bio-Wheel. A canister filter, like a Rena Filstar XP1 would be better but if money's an issue... and isn't it for everyone... then I haven't seen a better price on a mostly complete setup, which includes tank, filter, lighting, heater and some other minor stuff. All you need to add is some gravel and occupants... oh yeah... and some cycled filter media! ;-) Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or add information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? I think I would but then-------------------------I never heard back on the measurement's that I requested from Craigslist. So, back to square one------again!   It may wind-up on just a standard size 55 or may be back to the bow-front, just not sure yet and then of course the money issue.   Bill --- On Wed, 6/30/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 12:33 PM Does that mean you don't have room for a corner tank, or yes? lol. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, Amber > > The wings or sides of the 90 degree corner come to 36 inches on one > side and 30 inches on the other. Drawing a line between the two or > across, I would have almost 30 inches coming out from the 90 degree > corner directly in back. > > But here is some new news. Got on the phone with AGA this morning from > info provided by our "Uncle Ray", and he was right all along in his > estimates about the bow fronts. > > The manager told me the accurate measurement of a 72 bow-front is 18" > wide BUT that is at its fullest, or bowed front. The two side panels > of glass are 12 and a half inches each by 22 inches high! Mystery solved! > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] 72-gallon bow front tanks, the truth? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 10:43 AM Are you able to fit a corner > > tank in there that's over 30 gallons though? > > I'm not sure how much room they will take up in your dining room. A > > corner tank might stick out 30+ inches from the corner, do you have > > space for that? > > Here are some more examples of corner tanks that I ran across, not a > > bad price compared to the other site too. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > It's two different things or locations. The 18 inches > > has to do with > > > coming off an opposing side wall and into the dining > > room area if you > > > will, so reason or consideration of a standard 55, > > which is not out of > > > the running yet. > > > > > > BUT you're idea of a corner tank would mean removing > > the now 29-gallon > > > from a corner in the dinning room and replacing it > > with the one in the > > > photo. Which is an excellent idea save for one thing, > > over-all size. > > > > > > What we are trying to accomplish is to get the largest > > possible tank > > > into a given space. Since I only have room for one, we > > want it to be > > > the biggest we can jam in there. Also of concern is > > its depth or > > > height. I could get a rectangular tank at 3 foot > > across and 18 inches > > > wide into that space easily but it would be or is > > listed at greater > > > than 24 inches deep in some cases. Since the tank > > would only be 3 foot > > > across, you can readily see lighting issues for > > hopefully plants at > > > some later date, as it could be a problem and an > > additional expense > > > further down the line. > > > > > > Just like you and most others on group I suffer the > > same affliction, > > > LOC (lack of cash). The folks at Glass Cages will > > build anything I > > > want, but the cost puts it never, Never-land. > > > > > > Trying to work ahead a bit, from that photo, and by > > substituting > > > numbers as I go, I'm just guessing that tank at 50 > > gallons, sixty at > > > most. Also at this time I would most probably use a > > Rena 2 or 3 > > > canister filter. I do not believe in HOB's for tanks > > greater than > > > 30-gallons and this also saves on the problem of > > coming off any of the > > > walls in the room and extra 5 or 6 inches to allow for > > cleaning and > > > maintenance of a hob. > > > > > > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48669	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: San Francisco Bay Area "Planted Aquariums for Dummies 101" July 9th

http://www.sfaquarium.org/drupal/ Meetings are free and open to everyone. "Event - July 9, 2010 7:00pm - Doug Pizzy Fort Mason Center, Building C, Room C370 Doug Pizzy does not hold a BS in Aquatic Biology, a MS in Botany or a PhD in Plant Sciences. In fact, he does not claim to be an expert at all when it comes to growing aquatic plants and yet he is a keeper of glossostigma, narrow leaf java ferns, blyxa japonica and a variety of crypts. Doug also has experience raising and spawning the difficult species Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis. Over the years Doug has learned that you don't need to be a rocket scientist to have a nice planted aquarium. All it takes is a little patience and the desire to experiment and learn from your mistakes. Doug Pizzy has been a member of the SFAS since 1997 and owns a professional dog walking and pet sitting business who also enjoys photography, gardening, being a part-time musician and of course, maintaining beautiful planted aquariums. Doug will talk about the basics of growing aquatic plants including substrates, lighting, CO2, fertilizers and choosing the right plants and fish for your set up. Please join us and bring a friend. Get ready to say good-bye to plastic plants and learn how to make the live ones thrive! Meetings are free and open to everyone."

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48670	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: San Francisco Bay Area Killifish Association, 7/17 ~ BBQ picnic in t

http://sfbaka.net/modules/agendax/index.php?op=view&id=66 "Title : BAKA July BBQ Date : 2010 July 17 Saturday We're having a daytime picnic in the park. Location: Sulphur Creek Park 1801 D Street Hayward, CA Time: 12 Noon to 4:30 pm Program: We plan to have hands on demonstrations and we will socialize as usual before the auction This park is a very nice picnic area with a visitor center and zoo. Admission is free. Here are some websites about the park: http://www.haywardrec.org/sulphurcreek.html ~ 1801 D St, Hayward, CA 94541-4434 The turn-off from D street is not very well marked, so go slowly and look carefully. Auction: If you are planning to bring fish to the auction, please contact Ryan or Thuan at info@... Contact : SFBAKA Admin More info : | Email : info@... " sfbaka.net http://sfbaka.net/modules/agendax/index.php?op=view&id=66&on=20100717

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48671	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Sacramento Aquarium Society, 7/3 "First Annual SAS Fuzzy Fish Contes

http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/meetings/meetings.html "7/3 Kevin Kelley - "Economics of an Aquarium Society" and "First Annual SAS Fuzzy Fish Contest" The Sacramento Aquarium Society meets at 7 PM on the first Saturday of each month. Meetings typically include a guest speaker, bowl show, raffle, attendance prize, and an auction which includes fish, aquatic plants, and aquarium supplies. Many of the auction items go for less than wholesale prices. Meeting Location Round Table Pizza 9500 Greenback Lane Folsom, CA (916) 989-1133" http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/ http://www.carespreservation.com/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48672	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: ? SFBAAPS Meetings

Do any of the members here attend the Monthly Meetings? When are they? I can not find the info on the site http://sfbaaps.org/events.html I would like to go, thanks "sfbaaps holds informal monthly get togethers where members can discuss their successes and failures in keeping up their planted tanks, as well as to share plant clippings. Our "plant swaps" are geared to encourage the propagation of any and all aquatic plants within the club. Whether you're a seasoned vet or newcomer to the hobby, have bagfulls of clippings or are just starting out, all are welcome to participate in these events. A further benefit comes in knowing that if you tire of a plant and remove it from your collection, at some future time when you'd like to grow it again someone in the club will still be cultivating it. Upcoming Events TBA"

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48673	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society, July 3rd ~ Rosario LaCorte on Chara

http://siliconvalleyaquariumsociety.com/ "While a handful of people in the aquarium hobby have a fish named after them, can you name anyone else besides the legendary Rosario LaCorte who has not one, not two, but three species named in their honor? Jay Rose, our club founder, knows Rosario LaCorte personally, and has arranged to show a video of a LaCorte program on Characins (tetras) at our July meeting. This is a special event, not to be missed. Click here ~ http://www.carespreservation.com/bio_rosario_lacorte.html ~ to read a complete biography of Rosario LaCorte on the C.A.R.E.S. site. See you at the meeting! Meeting Time and Location: Round Table Pizza 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd San Jose, CA 95129 (Find it on Google Maps) 7:00 Social Hour 8:00pm = Meeting starts, announcements, speaker 9:30pm = Auction Start 11:00pm = Raffle/Cash Out/Clean Up Copyright © 2010 Silicon Valley Aquarium Society" http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SiliconValleyAquariumSociety/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48674	From: Grace	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Hello Northern California

What Aquarium Society's, Clubs, Associations, Councils, Groups, etc... are You a Member of? I am in the East Bay, about 45 Miles East of San Francisco, and am mostly interested in Planted tanks, Freshwater Fish & Shrimp. So far I can only find info on meetings in San Jose, San Francisco and Sacramento - all at least an hour away. Are there any others that you know of? And Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48675	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Benthic Marine Algae and Kings of Camouflage

A couple of sites that may be of at least passing interest for our members here: Benthic Marine Algal Herbarium of L.I. Sound http://www.algae.uconn.edu/ The University of Connecticut has a tremendous collection of algae from the Long Island Sound, and back in 2001 they went ahead and photographed the original herbarium sheets featuring the preserved algae specimens. The archive is quite comprehensive, as it features all of the benthic marine macroalgal species in the Long Island Sound. All told, there are over 299 images here, and visitors are encouraged to peruse the collection by phylum, family, or name. The site also contains a list of definitions, a regional map, and information about the team that worked to make this collection a possibility. Kings of Camouflage http://video.pbs.org/video/1150618835/program/979359664 With its interesting movements and sometimes bizarre appearance, the cuttlefish is one of the most fascinating creatures in the sea. This recent documentary from NOVA explores the world of the cuttlefish and its behaviors. On the homepage, visitors can watch the 53-minute film in its entirety. There are many extra features on the site, including a teacher's guide, a transcript, and a set of external links and related readings. There are four additional sections, including "Anatomy of a Cuttlefish" and "Mating Trickery". In the "Mating Trickery" section, visitors can view a slide show of how cuttlefish mate, along with comparisons from the rest of the animal world, including fish and reptiles. Additionally, the "Anatomy of a Cuttlefish" area explores some of the animal's more unusual features, such as its blue-green blood and its three hearts. >From The Scout Report, Copyright Internet Scout 1994-2010. http://scout.wisc.edu/ \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48676	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society, July 3rd ~ Rosario LaCorte on C

How about Pierre Brichard will 12 species? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Grace Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Silicon Valley Aquarium Society, July 3rd ~ Rosario LaCorte on Characins http://siliconvalleyaquariumsociety.com/ "While a handful of people in the aquarium hobby have a fish named after them, can you name anyone else besides the legendary Rosario LaCorte who has not one, not two, but three species named in their honor? Jay Rose, our club founder, knows Rosario LaCorte personally, and has arranged to show a video of a LaCorte program on Characins (tetras) at our July meeting. This is a special event, not to be missed. Click here ~ http://www.carespreservation.com/bio_rosario_lacorte.html ~ to read a complete biography of Rosario LaCorte on the C.A.R.E.S. site. See you at the meeting! Meeting Time and Location: Round Table Pizza 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd San Jose, CA 95129 (Find it on Google Maps) 7:00 Social Hour 8:00pm = Meeting starts, announcements, speaker 9:30pm = Auction Start 11:00pm = Raffle/Cash Out/Clean Up Copyright C 2010 Silicon Valley Aquarium Society" http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SiliconValleyAquariumSociety/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48677	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society, July 3rd ~ Rosario LaCorte on C

Herbie Axelrod with a plethora named after him. Ethelwynn Trewavas 19 Charles Tate Regan 22 Probably Heiko Bleher Ad Konings 2 or more George Barlow 2 or more other soecies named after people. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/4323547 -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul 2, 2010 5:32 pm Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Silicon Valley Aquarium Society, July 3rd ~ Rosario LaCorte on Characins How about Pierre Brichard will 12 species? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Grace Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 11:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Silicon Valley Aquarium Society, July 3rd ~ Rosario LaCorte on Characins http://siliconvalleyaquariumsociety.com/ "While a handful of people in the aquarium hobby have a fish named after them, can you name anyone else besides the legendary Rosario LaCorte who has not one, not two, but three species named in their honor? Jay Rose, our club founder, knows Rosario LaCorte personally, and has arranged to show a video of a LaCorte program on Characins (tetras) at our July meeting. This is a special event, not to be missed. Click here ~ http://www.carespreservation.com/bio_rosario_lacorte.html ~ to read a complete biography of Rosario LaCorte on the C.A.R.E.S. site. See you at the meeting! Meeting Time and Location: Round Table Pizza 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd San Jose, CA 95129 (Find it on Google Maps) 7:00 Social Hour 8:00pm = Meeting starts, announcements, speaker 9:30pm = Auction Start 11:00pm = Raffle/Cash Out/Clean Up Copyright C 2010 Silicon Valley Aquarium Society" http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SiliconValleyAquariumSociety/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48678	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Re: ? SFBAAPS Meetings

At the bottom of every page there is a link to Contact the Webmaster. Click on that, and send him an inquiry. As an alternative, you could just join (free), get your username/password, and check the forum for a meeting date and place. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Grace Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 12:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] ? SFBAAPS Meetings Do any of the members here attend the Monthly Meetings? When are they? I can not find the info on the site http://sfbaaps.org/events.html I would like to go, thanks "sfbaaps holds informal monthly get togethers where members can discuss their successes and failures in keeping up their planted tanks, as well as to share plant clippings. Our "plant swaps" are geared to encourage the propagation of any and all aquatic plants within the club. Whether you're a seasoned vet or newcomer to the hobby, have bagfulls of clippings or are just starting out, all are welcome to participate in these events. A further benefit comes in knowing that if you tire of a plant and remove it from your collection, at some future time when you'd like to grow it again someone in the club will still be cultivating it. Upcoming Events TBA"

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48679	From: Joseph	Date: 7/2/2010
Subject: Markers on aquariums?

Good evening! For several reasons, we've been considering writing on the outside glass of our tanks. I've found a limited number of references on various forums to using either permanent and/or dry erase markers on the outside of tanks, and they all seem to indicate that it's safe. Does anyone have any direct knowledge or experience? Is there anything we should be concerned about? Thanks! Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48680	From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Markers on aquariums?

Using a permanent marker or dry erase on the *outside* of a tank should not be a problem. Just make sure the tank is covered and maybe have a fan on and/or central air/heat for a few minutes to disperse any fumes from the drying chemicals so they don't linger around the tank for too long. This is being overly cautious but it's better to be safe than sorry. I've used a Sharpie to put a mark on the back of one side of my tanks to mark the 25% removed level for when I first get a new sized tank to remind me of the mark until I get used to it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or add information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 10:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Markers on aquariums? Good evening! For several reasons, we've been considering writing on the outside glass of our tanks. I've found a limited number of references on various forums to using either permanent and/or dry erase markers on the outside of tanks, and they all seem to indicate that it's safe. Does anyone have any direct knowledge or experience? Is there anything we should be concerned about? Thanks! Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48681	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Markers on aquariums?

I have used the permanent markers on tanks to make relatively unobtrusive marks to indicate levels for water changes so I would know how much water I was removing from a tank without guessing. Many who I know who have used the markers to indicate inhabitants of the tank use the dry erase markers, probably because they may be easier to remove than the permanent ones. So long as you are using the markers on the outside of the tank, I see no problems in using markers. For use inside the tank, I imagine you need to dry the surface first, and let the mark dry, releasing any fumes that may be toxic, before the tank is filled over the mark. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 11:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Markers on aquariums? Good evening! For several reasons, we've been considering writing on the outside glass of our tanks. I've found a limited number of references on various forums to using either permanent and/or dry erase markers on the outside of tanks, and they all seem to indicate that it's safe. Does anyone have any direct knowledge or experience? Is there anything we should be concerned about? Thanks! Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48682	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Markers on aquariums?

This is common among LFS in NJ to indicate the fish/plants/organisms that are in the tanks. Changes are updated constantly. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 6:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Markers on aquariums? Using a permanent marker or dry erase on the *outside* of a tank should not be a problem. Just make sure the tank is covered and maybe have a fan on and/or central air/heat for a few minutes to disperse any fumes from the drying chemicals so they don't linger around the tank for too long. This is being overly cautious but it's better to be safe than sorry. I've used a Sharpie to put a mark on the back of one side of my tanks to mark the 25% removed level for when I first get a new sized tank to remind me of the mark until I get used to it. Lenny Vasbinder Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month. Please feel free to leave a comment or add information on any of my fish-blog articles. Just click on the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article.) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Joseph Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 10:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Markers on aquariums? Good evening! For several reasons, we've been considering writing on the outside glass of our tanks. I've found a limited number of references on various forums to using either permanent and/or dry erase markers on the outside of tanks, and they all seem to indicate that it's safe. Does anyone have any direct knowledge or experience? Is there anything we should be concerned about? Thanks! Joe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48683	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Pineconing

My female dario looks like a pinecone! Please, is there anything I can do to save her? She is eating alright, and looks ok otherwise, although her pectoral fins are moving very fast. I have been having some issues with this tank. I lost 2 glass cats, with strange white spots. I treated with rid ich +, then maracyn 2 with no improvement. Last week 1 endler was fine one day, dead the next. No signs of anything on him. Everyone else looks fine - 2 male dario ( one male only harasses her when she is in his territory - the other is submissive), 2 male endlers, 2 otos, 2 cardinals, 2 amano shrimp, several rcs. Moderately planted tank. 20 gallons. I did recently turn off the heater, which lowered the temperature. I had tried to adjust the heater to a lower temp, as it kept the tank between 82 and 84 degrees farenheit, but it would not adjust. Since it is summer now, and the house stays around 78 degrees, I thought I could disconnect the heater. Could this have caused the pineconing? Could she be egg-bound? Parameters: ph 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20, gh 16, kh 7, temp 76. Please help me save this rare female dario. I would like to take everyone else out of this tank and try breeding. Thanks! ~ Laurie ________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48684	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Pineconing

Should have added a few details: She is eating mosquito larvae and baby crs, and swims out to receive the mosquito larvae from the turkey baster as she always has. Her color is pale now. Last water change was 20% two weeks ago. Usually done weekly - out of town last weekend. I have plugged the heater back in, and will do a 20% water change now. I read that these fishes prefer a lower ph - I have an RO filter on my sink - should I use a bit of RO water in the water change? I have had female bettas pinecone before if they did not spawn, or maybe it was too many blackworms. I no longer feed blackworms, but could it be too much food? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 9:37:34 AM Subject: Pineconing My female dario looks like a pinecone! Please, is there anything I can do to save her? She is eating alright, and looks ok otherwise, although her pectoral fins are moving very fast. I have been having some issues with this tank. I lost 2 glass cats, with strange white spots. I treated with rid ich +, then maracyn 2 with no improvement. Last week 1 endler was fine one day, dead the next. No signs of anything on him. Everyone else looks fine - 2 male dario ( one male only harasses her when she is in his territory - the other is submissive), 2 male endlers, 2 otos, 2 cardinals, 2 amano shrimp, several rcs. Moderately planted tank. 20 gallons. I did recently turn off the heater, which lowered the temperature. I had tried to adjust the heater to a lower temp, as it kept the tank between 82 and 84 degrees farenheit, but it would not adjust. Since it is summer now, and the house stays around 78 degrees, I thought I could disconnect the heater. Could this have caused the pineconing? Could she be egg-bound? Parameters: ph 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20, gh 16, kh 7, temp 76. Please help me save this rare female dario. I would like to take everyone else out of this tank and try breeding. Thanks! ~ Laurie ________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48685	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 7/3/2010
Subject: Re: Pineconing

Now that I have studied her a bit, it looks like she may be suffering from the same thing that the glass cats had. Her pinecone appearance is not uniform - not all scales are lifted. I believe it may be something under the scales - with the glass cats, there were white spots, eventually sprinkled throughout the entire body. As I said before, I treated with rid ich +, which did not seem to help, then as per some knowledgable person's suggestion, maracyn 2 - 2 cycles, again with no improvement. The substrate in the tank is flourite - could it have absorbed the medication? No carbon in the filter, only very old filter sponges. Should they be replaced? Here is a link to the previous thread on the glass cats: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48326 ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 9:51:11 AM Subject: Re: Pineconing Should have added a few details: She is eating mosquito larvae and baby crs, and swims out to receive the mosquito larvae from the turkey baster as she always has. Her color is pale now. Last water change was 20% two weeks ago. Usually done weekly - out of town last weekend. I have plugged the heater back in, and will do a 20% water change now. I read that these fishes prefer a lower ph - I have an RO filter on my sink - should I use a bit of RO water in the water change? I have had female bettas pinecone before if they did not spawn, or maybe it was too many blackworms. I no longer feed blackworms, but could it be too much food? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 9:37:34 AM Subject: Pineconing My female dario looks like a pinecone! Please, is there anything I can do to save her? She is eating alright, and looks ok otherwise, although her pectoral fins are moving very fast. I have been having some issues with this tank. I lost 2 glass cats, with strange white spots. I treated with rid ich +, then maracyn 2 with no improvement. Last week 1 endler was fine one day, dead the next. No signs of anything on him. Everyone else looks fine - 2 male dario ( one male only harasses her when she is in his territory - the other is submissive), 2 male endlers, 2 otos, 2 cardinals, 2 amano shrimp, several rcs. Moderately planted tank. 20 gallons. I did recently turn off the heater, which lowered the temperature. I had tried to adjust the heater to a lower temp, as it kept the tank between 82 and 84 degrees farenheit, but it would not adjust. Since it is summer now, and the house stays around 78 degrees, I thought I could disconnect the heater. Could this have caused the pineconing? Could she be egg-bound? Parameters: ph 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20, gh 16, kh 7, temp 76. Please help me save this rare female dario. I would like to take everyone else out of this tank and try breeding. Thanks! ~ Laurie ________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48686	From: Grace	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: ? SFBAAPS Meetings

Thank You, I did send the webmaster an email last week a few days after I joined and had not received the log in info for the forum I found some info in this Groups Calendar and called the Round Table listed to try and confirm it and she said there is reservation from 2 - 4 on the 3rd Sunday 7/18, hopefully that is it http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/cal///group/AquaticLife/?v=4&i=239&id=47&t=1279452600&pv=42&POS=0&TYP=100&MOD=0 San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Society (SFBAAPS) Date: Sunday December 17, 2006 Time: 11:30 am - 1:30 pm Author: aquaticlifegroup Repeat: This event repeats every month on the third Sunday. Type: Club Event Location: Albany Round Table Pizza Street: 962 San Pablo Avenue (corner of San Pablo and Buchanan St) City/State/Zip: Albany, CA 94706 Phone: (510) 524-3272 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > At the bottom of every page there is a link to Contact the Webmaster. Click > on that, and send him an inquiry. As an alternative, you could just join > (free), get your username/password, and check the forum for a meeting date > and place. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Grace > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 12:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] ? SFBAAPS Meetings > > Do any of the members here attend the Monthly Meetings? When are they? > > I can not find the info on the site http://sfbaaps.org/events.html > > I would like to go, thanks > > "sfbaaps holds informal monthly get togethers where members can discuss > their successes and failures in keeping up their planted tanks, as well as > to share plant clippings. > > Our "plant swaps" are geared to encourage the propagation of any and all > aquatic plants within the club. Whether you're a seasoned vet or newcomer to > the hobby, have bagfulls of clippings or are just starting out, all are > welcome to participate in these events. A further benefit comes in knowing > that if you tire of a plant and remove it from your collection, at some > future time when you'd like to grow it again someone in the club will still > be cultivating it. > > Upcoming Events > > TBA" >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48687	From: Grace	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association PCCA, 7-10 7PM San Jose, CA

http://www.cichlidworld.com/ the Pacific Coast Cichlid Association(PCCA) is proud to announce July 10, 2010: Mr. David Soares from Sisters, Oregon, as our speaker on "Apistogramma" Time: 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Location: Round Table Pizza, 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd, San Jose, CA, 95129 The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48688	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: 10 hideously ugly fish

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2954&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=June_24_2010&utm_term=10_hideously_ugly_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/27bqkwq Practical Fishkeeping forum moderator Bob Mehen takes a look at 10 fish that have taken a beating from the ugly stick. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48689	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: 10 hideously ugly fish

Way to go, \\Steve//, Every fish there is deservedly appropriate to the Subject List -- especially that hideous last one < g >. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48690	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Festival of Fishkeeping -- UK

http://www.festivaloffishkeeping.co.uk/page1.html If you have yet to plan your vacation, then you may wish to consider a trip to jolly old England this October. While the meetings seem to be for members only, there is still plenty to do and see while you are there with two shows, and, of course, the chance to meet British aquarists. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48691	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Little Tiny Bits?

Like so many other people, I buy much flake foods in bulk to save a bit where I can. To that end I recently got to the bottom of one of my containers and was discussed to find quite a bit of really little tiny bites or bits (really small bits) of the larger flake. If I had any fry, this material would make a great first feeding food, as it is that small, but for now I do not. Does anyone know of a useful way of using these tiny bits? Can they be mixed together with some Knox Gelatin or some other product and then frozen and be of further use? Normally, I would just discard it but getting to the bottom of a half-pound bag, I find this is a bit much and would hate to waste it. Any ideas? Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48692	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?

I use my leftover flakes (either old ones, or too small to feed) in m gelatin fish recipe's. You will need a few other ingredients too, but keep that handy if you ever plan on making gel fish food at some point. I'm out of gelatin myself, so I haven't made any yet this summer, I need to though. Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Like so many other people, I buy much flake foods in bulk to save a > bit where I can. To that end I recently got to the bottom of one of my > containers and was discussed to find quite a bit of really little tiny > bites or bits (really small bits) of the larger flake. > > If I had any fry, this material would make a great first feeding food, > as it is that small, but for now I do not. Does anyone know of a > useful way of using these tiny bits? Can they be mixed together with > some Knox Gelatin or some other product and then frozen and be of > further use? Normally, I would just discard it but getting to the > bottom of a half-pound bag, I find this is a bit much and would hate > to waste it. Any ideas? > > Bill > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48693	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?

Makes me tempted to ask.  "What's your receipe"? <g>   Bill --- On Sun, 7/4/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Little Tiny Bits? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 1:54 PM > I use my leftover flakes (either old > ones, or too small to feed) in m > gelatin fish recipe's. You will need a few other > ingredients too, but > keep that handy if you ever plan on making gel fish food at > some point. > I'm out of gelatin myself, so I haven't made any yet this > summer, I need > to though. > > Amber > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Like so many other people, I buy much flake foods in > bulk to save a > > bit where I can. To that end I recently got to the > bottom of one of my > > containers and was discussed to find quite a bit of > really little tiny > > bites or bits (really small bits) of the larger > flake. > > > > If I had any fry, this material would make a great > first feeding food, > > as it is that small, but for now I do not. Does anyone > know of a > > useful way of using these tiny bits? Can they be mixed > together with > > some Knox Gelatin or some other product and then > frozen and be of > > further use? Normally, I would just discard it but > getting to the > > bottom of a half-pound bag, I find this is a bit much > and would hate > > to waste it. Any ideas? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48694	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: 10 hideously ugly fish

Thanks for sharing that Steve. I could not agree more with their "parrot" fish, now if they only included Flowerhorns the list would be complete. In a few years they can add theswe monstrosities as soon as they hit the trade. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2962 I saw the link on the page you sent. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jul 4, 2010 7:01 am Subject: [AquaticLife] 10 hideously ugly fish http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2954&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=June_24_2010&utm_term=10_hideously_ugly_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/27bqkwq Practical Fishkeeping forum moderator Bob Mehen takes a look at 10 fish that have taken a beating from the ugly stick. \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48695	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?

I make it a little like "My Grandma's Goulash" LOL. She emptied out the fridge into a pot and added noodles and called it goulash, while I'm not quite that bad with my fish food... I will use leftover frozen fish from friends/family, I try to get shrimp with eggs but that doesn't always happen, but sometimes I can find it at the grocery store (Sad that it's hard to find seafood in our grocery stores and we live on an island, LOL). I don't have any fish vitamins or anything to add to the recipe like that. But I will add powdered garlic and brewers yeast for vitamins B (fish seem to enjoy the taste better when you add garlic to the mix). I also add frozen veggies, usually the mixed kind is what I buy. I loosely follow this recipe, but if I'm out of things I substitute with something else (more fish, shellfish, etc). http://www.thebomb.clara.co.uk/paste.html Amber bill 1433 wrote: > > Makes me tempted to ask. "What's your receipe"? <g> > > Bill > > --- On Sun, 7/4/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Little Tiny Bits? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 1:54 PM > > I use my leftover flakes (either old > > ones, or too small to feed) in m > > gelatin fish recipe's. You will need a few other > > ingredients too, but > > keep that handy if you ever plan on making gel fish food at > > some point. > > I'm out of gelatin myself, so I haven't made any yet this > > summer, I need > > to though. > > > > Amber > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Like so many other people, I buy much flake foods in > > bulk to save a > > > bit where I can. To that end I recently got to the > > bottom of one of my > > > containers and was discussed to find quite a bit of > > really little tiny > > > bites or bits (really small bits) of the larger > > flake. > > > > > > If I had any fry, this material would make a great > > first feeding food, > > > as it is that small, but for now I do not. Does anyone > > know of a > > > useful way of using these tiny bits? Can they be mixed > > together with > > > some Knox Gelatin or some other product and then > > frozen and be of > > > further use? Normally, I would just discard it but > > getting to the > > > bottom of a half-pound bag, I find this is a bit much > > and would hate > > > to waste it. Any ideas? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48696	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?

Bill, I'd just feed it. Your adult fish will be able to eat it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Little Tiny Bits? Like so many other people, I buy much flake foods in bulk to save a bit where I can. To that end I recently got to the bottom of one of my containers and was discussed to find quite a bit of really little tiny bites or bits (really small bits) of the larger flake. If I had any fry, this material would make a great first feeding food, as it is that small, but for now I do not. Does anyone know of a useful way of using these tiny bits? Can they be mixed together with some Knox Gelatin or some other product and then frozen and be of further use? Normally, I would just discard it but getting to the bottom of a half-pound bag, I find this is a bit much and would hate to waste it. Any ideas? Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48697	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?

I usually crush my flakes into little tiny bits so the fish can readily eat them before they sink. Mind you, they're little tiny fish. Tetras and danios. When I was in the hospital with appendicitis, my sister put in one great big flake, and it sat there and spoiled. I told her, thumbnail sized. She thought I meant half a finger. Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 1:16 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Little Tiny Bits? Bill, I'd just feed it. Your adult fish will be able to eat it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Little Tiny Bits? Like so many other people, I buy much flake foods in bulk to save a bit where I can. To that end I recently got to the bottom of one of my containers and was discussed to find quite a bit of really little tiny bites or bits (really small bits) of the larger flake. If I had any fry, this material would make a great first feeding food, as it is that small, but for now I do not. Does anyone know of a useful way of using these tiny bits? Can they be mixed together with some Knox Gelatin or some other product and then frozen and be of further use? Normally, I would just discard it but getting to the bottom of a half-pound bag, I find this is a bit much and would hate to waste it. Any ideas? Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48698	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little Tiny Bits?

Oh, they eat it alright \\Steve// but I worry about possible fouling the water. But again, feeding it seems to be the best approach and maybe be careful to be sure all is consumed quickly.  A couple of green Cory's and 4 Siamese Algae eaters do pretty good with it.  The main fish in the tank now are 7 Angelfish, and they always eat!   Bill --- On Sun, 7/4/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Little Tiny Bits? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 2:16 PM Bill, I'd just feed it. Your adult fish will be able to eat it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife Subject: [AquaticLife] Little Tiny Bits? Like so many other people, I buy much flake foods in bulk to save a bit where I can.  To that end I recently got to the bottom of one of my containers and was discussed to find quite a bit of really little tiny bites or bits (really small bits) of the larger flake. If I had any fry, this material would make a great first feeding food, as it is that small, but for now I do not.  Does anyone know of a useful way of using these tiny bits?  Can they be mixed together with some Knox Gelatin or some other product and then frozen and be of further use?  Normally, I would just discard it but getting to the bottom of a half-pound bag, I find this is a bit much and would hate to waste it.  Any ideas? Bill ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48700	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/4/2010
Subject: Happy 4th of July!

Have any Red, White & Blue or Firework like Colorful Fish Pictures to share? Please upload them to the Groups Photo Album or send a link if they are already online, Thank You Here is the new Group Photo on the Home Page http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1787876438/pic/693303195/view?picmode=medium&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48701	From: harry perry	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Urgent requst for help

My Daughter has an Axoltyl that is refusing to eat. Water test Ph 6.5 Nitrite 0 Nitrates way over 100 HOB filter. Carbon bag replaced on this past Friday. Critter is approx. 6 years old. Going on 8 days without food. Please help. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48702	From: john Lewis	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Re: Urgent requst for help

hello:    What is it being offered for food at the present time and how big is the animal?    "Spawn" ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:31:18 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent requst for help   My Daughter has an Axoltyl that is refusing to eat. Water test Ph 6.5 Nitrite 0 Nitrates way over 100 HOB filter. Carbon bag replaced on this past Friday. Critter is approx. 6 years old. Going on 8 days without food. Please help. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48703	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Re: Urgent requst for help

Harry, As we know, as nitrate levels rise above 40 ppm, they are increasingly detrimental to the health of fish -- and will put fish off their feed as the nitrate level gets very excessive. While your 100 ppm is much more than the generally recommended top limit of 40 ppm for most fish, perhaps nitrate in amphibians' water also has your Axolotl feeling a bit peaked (or "under the weather") even though your level is far less than what I've seen some occasionally very lax fish hobbyists report their's as when they state their nitrate at double your amount. Still, maybe amphibians, or Axolotl in particular, are particularly sensitive to higher amounts of nitrate. I would try making some PWC's to get that level down below 40 -- closer to 20 ppm if possible. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48704	From: Deb	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: pictures

Great patriotic pictures with the betta!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48705	From: harry perry	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Re: Urgent requst for help/Ray

Thank you. I went over to their house. I did a 50% water change. He became active immediately and began to eat. Harry --- On Mon, 7/5/10, sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: sevenspringss@... <sevenspringss@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent requst for help To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 1:17 PM   Harry, As we know, as nitrate levels rise above 40 ppm, they are increasingly detrimental to the health of fish -- and will put fish off their feed as the nitrate level gets very excessive. While your 100 ppm is much more than the generally recommended top limit of 40 ppm for most fish, perhaps nitrate in amphibians' water also has your Axolotl feeling a bit peaked (or "under the weather") even though your level is far less than what I've seen some occasionally very lax fish hobbyists report their's as when they state their nitrate at double your amount. Still, maybe amphibians, or Axolotl in particular, are particularly sensitive to higher amounts of nitrate. I would try making some PWC's to get that level down below 40 -- closer to 20 ppm if possible. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48706	From: harry perry	Date: 7/5/2010
Subject: Re: Urgent requst for help/John

Night crawlers and he is approx. 9". Harry --- On Mon, 7/5/10, john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> wrote: From: john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Urgent requst for help To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 11:52 AM           hello:    What is it being offered for food at the present time and how big is the animal?    "Spawn" ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:31:18 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Urgent requst for help   My Daughter has an Axoltyl that is refusing to eat. Water test Ph 6.5 Nitrite 0 Nitrates way over 100 HOB filter. Carbon bag replaced on this past Friday. Critter is approx. 6 years old. Going on 8 days without food. Please help. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48707	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .

. . . then you need to eat at this restaurant. You know, the one with the 75,000 gallon marine aquarium. http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2010/07/05/news/iq_36680797.txt http://tinyurl.com/269rp3k \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48708	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .

Hi \\Steve//   Your link here has brought an interesting question to mind.  Although there are many similar displays like this all over Florida and the Key's, especially in "Sea World".  I have always wondered about one thing:   Does anyone know what is the largest "In Home" aquarium and where is located? (thinking of expanding) <g>   Bill --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 6:17 AM > . . . then you need to eat at this > restaurant. You know, the one with the 75,000 gallon marine > aquarium. > > http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2010/07/05/news/iq_36680797.txt > http://tinyurl.com/269rp3k > > \\Steve// > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48709	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Ready for fish?

Hey, everyone I've been gone on a business trip so haven't done any testing on my new salt water tank (30 gal) for a couple of weeks. It has live sand and live rock so should have been cycling. Testing this morning shows pH back to 8.2 (was low, presumably from the "pH buffer" in the water conditioner I was using, I changed) Ammonia down to .5 (from 1.0 two weeks ago) Nitrite remains 0 and Nitrate remains 10.0. I'm getting some growth of red algae. I forgot to update the house/farm sitters chore list so I doubt it got turned off at night. Future trips shouldn't be more than a couple of days and yes I'll adjust the list - especially if she has fishies etc to feed! Tomorrow is my day off so would be good time to get a critter or two. Start with some invertibrates? (shrimp, crabs) Should I do a PWC before I head off to the store? Thanks! Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48710	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Heatwave SOS

My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I use them for six tanks, and would that even help? Other thoughts? At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? Thanks:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48711	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

Hello Lainey, My tanks are in the basement but they do get too warm at times. First the surrounding temperature is going to fight the cooling of your tanks. I put a layer of insulation- the pink stuff that is used in construction on walls. This is held on by packing tape to be removed later on. Then in putting in ice, I prepare for this by having several Snapple plastic bottles frozen solid in the freezer. These are the 32 oz size which will cool the tank slower than straight ice in the water. If you have room you could take containers into your refrigerator and then when water cool I place them up high than the tank and siphon with a smaller tube into the tank to avoid shock temperature- it all depends on the type of fish you have. While scuba in Bonaire and the Caymans, I saw a lot of fish in warmer water at 84 or 85 degrees- they did fine. Past that I could not say. They only have to swim down if they want cooler temps. I am sure there is a difference but when I went to 180 feet I did not find cold water yet in the Caymans. There are Chillers that are little refrigerators that you pump water through them. I have experimented with Peltier junction devices myself but only was able to reduce the water by about 3 degrees F. I am sure you need more than 1 70 Watt unit. I find that sometimes there is no easy answer. Sam, Chicago On 7/6/2010 1:56 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major > heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just > got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room > temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy > more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I > use them for six tanks, and would that even help? > > Other thoughts? > > At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? > > Thanks:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48712	From: harry perry	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS/Lainey

What did you do last year?. Harry --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 2:56 PM   My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I use them for six tanks, and would that even help? Other thoughts? At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? Thanks:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48713	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS/Lainey

New fish room, new set up. It's bad, the room is getting hotter and so are the tanks, we're taking drastic measures now. Plastic bottles freezing, but that will take time - tanks now up to 86. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 4:21 PM, harry perry wrote: > What did you do last year?. > > Harry > > --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 2:56 PM > > > > My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major > > heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just > > got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room > > temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy > > more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I > > use them for six tanks, and would that even help? > > Other thoughts? > > At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? > > Thanks:) > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48714	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

Last June in Austin, my aquarium had to spend a couple of weeks on the back porch with temperatures in the 90's. I kept the lid open and a fan blowing over the top. Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I use them for six tanks, and would that even help? Other thoughts? At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? Thanks:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48715	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

we're doing that now, the fan on the water surface is lowering the temps a little but it's obviously not a long term solution! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 4:25 PM, <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Last June in Austin, my aquarium had to spend a couple of weeks on > the back > porch with temperatures in the 90's. I kept the lid open and a fan > blowing > over the top. > > Yours, > Villandra > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 1:56 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS > > My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major > heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just > got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room > temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy > more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I > use them for six tanks, and would that even help? > > Other thoughts? > > At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? > > Thanks:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48716	From: Chris Owens-Polski	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

Take your bags of ice in ziploc containers and sprinkle the ice with salt, reseal the bags.  Some of the the things we learned back in chemistry.....   If you have any aluminum cans (filled with water/soda) put them in a cooler, cover with ice and salt and water, wait 15 min, cans will be icy cold, drop into bags and into tanks, cycle the cans that way    Chris Owens in NOVA --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 4:33 PM we're doing that now, the fan on the water surface is lowering the  temps a little but it's obviously not a long term solution! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 4:25 PM, <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > Last June in Austin, my aquarium had to spend a couple of weeks on  > the back > porch with temperatures in the 90's. I kept the lid open and a fan  > blowing > over the top. > > Yours, > Villandra > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lainey Alexander" <lainealex@...> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 1:56 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS > > My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major > heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just > got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room > temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy > more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I > use them for six tanks, and would that even help? > > Other thoughts? > > At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? > > Thanks:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying,  > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT  > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY  > the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of  > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership"  > on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest,  > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail  > option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48717	From: William M	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: San Francisco Bay Area "Planted Aquariums for Dummies 101" July

Since this is a wide spread group, it might help to let others know what town/city and state this will take place in. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Grace" <ge_martin2@...> wrote: > > http://www.sfaquarium.org/drupal/ > > Meetings are free and open to everyone. > > "Event - July 9, 2010 7:00pm - Doug Pizzy > > Fort Mason Center, Building C, Room C370 > > > Doug Pizzy does not hold a BS in Aquatic Biology, a MS in Botany or a PhD in Plant Sciences. In fact, he does not > > claim to be an expert at all when it comes to growing aquatic plants and yet he is a keeper of glossostigma, narrow > > leaf java ferns, blyxa japonica and a variety of crypts. Doug also has experience raising and spawning the difficult > > species Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis. Over the years Doug has learned that you don't need to be a rocket scientist > > to have a nice planted aquarium. All it takes is a little patience and the desire to experiment and learn from your > > mistakes. > > Doug Pizzy has been a member of the SFAS since 1997 and owns a professional dog walking and pet sitting business who > > also enjoys photography, gardening, being a part-time musician and of course, maintaining beautiful planted > > aquariums. Doug will talk about the basics of growing aquatic plants including substrates, lighting, CO2, > > fertilizers and choosing the right plants and fish for your set up. > > Please join us and bring a friend. Get ready to say good-bye to plastic plants and learn how to make the live ones > > thrive! Meetings are free and open to everyone." >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48718	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: July 9th, San Francisco Aquarium Society "Planted Aquariums for Dumm

All the Information is Available by following the Link that was provided ~ here it is again -> http://www.sfaquarium.org/drupal/ I think the Key Words in the Subject "San Francisco..." should help clue in most people who are interested. I am pretty sure there is only 1 San Francisco in the entire U.S.A. and it is in California. The original post seems to be simply a copy and paste of the text from the website, however the website does include a click-able link in the location, so one would have had to follow the original link to get to the second since copy & pasting text from that website into this forum may not include any html. -> Fort Mason Center, Building C, Room C370 http://www.fortmason.org/directions/index.shtml Download PDF of Map -> http://www.fortmason.org/assets/File/Map%20of%20and%20to%20Fort%20Mason%20Center.pdf Directions Map Quest Directions -> ( http://www.mapquest.com/maps?name=Fort+Mason+Center&city=San+Francisco&state=CA&zipcode=94123&country=US&latitude=37.80613&longitude=-122.43089&geocode=ADDRESS&id=1017553314 ) East Bay Bay Bridge to Fremont Street Exit; on Fremont (100 yards north) take first right on Howard; left on Embarcadero & go 2 miles; left on Bay & go 2 miles; right on Buchanan. Cross Marina Blvd. & sharp right into Fort Mason Center. North Bay Golden Gate Bridge (US 101) to Marina Exit; Marina Blvd (1.5 miles) to Buchanan & turn left into Fort Mason Center. Peninsula/South Bay US 101 North to 9th St. Exit; 9th across Market & left on Hayes; right on Franklin; left on Bay; right on Buchanan. Cross Marina Blvd. & sharp right into Fort Mason Center Transportation Numbers Bay Area-Wide: www.511.org or call 817-1717 or 511 from any area code East Bay BART: www.bart.gov (510) 465-2278 North Bay Golden Gate Transit: www.goldengate.org (415) 455-2000 Peninsula/South Bay CalTrain: www.caltrain.com (800) 660-4287 San Francisco MUNI: www.sfmuni.com (415) 673-6864 Hope That Helps --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > Since this is a wide spread group, it might help to let others know what town/city and state this will take place in. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Grace" <ge_martin2@> wrote: > > > > http://www.sfaquarium.org/drupal/ > > > > Meetings are free and open to everyone. > > > > "Event - July 9, 2010 7:00pm - Doug Pizzy > > > > Fort Mason Center, Building C, Room C370 > > > > > > Doug Pizzy does not hold a BS in Aquatic Biology, a MS in Botany or a PhD in Plant Sciences. In fact, he does not > > > > claim to be an expert at all when it comes to growing aquatic plants and yet he is a keeper of glossostigma, narrow > > > > leaf java ferns, blyxa japonica and a variety of crypts. Doug also has experience raising and spawning the difficult > > > > species Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis. Over the years Doug has learned that you don't need to be a rocket scientist > > > > to have a nice planted aquarium. All it takes is a little patience and the desire to experiment and learn from your > > > > mistakes. > > > > Doug Pizzy has been a member of the SFAS since 1997 and owns a professional dog walking and pet sitting business who > > > > also enjoys photography, gardening, being a part-time musician and of course, maintaining beautiful planted > > > > aquariums. Doug will talk about the basics of growing aquatic plants including substrates, lighting, CO2, > > > > fertilizers and choosing the right plants and fish for your set up. > > > > Please join us and bring a friend. Get ready to say good-bye to plastic plants and learn how to make the live ones > > > > thrive! Meetings are free and open to everyone." > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48719	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

The danger depends on the fish you have. I can tell you right away that your hillstream loach is going to have big issues at temps that high, makes sure you have lots of surface agitation to increase the oxygen in that tank, you could lose him/her. Putting a fan so that it blows cool air across the top of your tank can help (that's what I do with my tank upstairs that gets too warm in the summer months, I keep a fan going almost all of the summer on warm days). Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major > heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just > got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room > temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy > more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I > use them for six tanks, and would that even help? > > Other thoughts? > > At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? > > Thanks:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48720	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

Lainey, I feel for you. I know that up where you are, 85°F is a true scorcher, higher than that and you think you may have made a wrong turn and are heading toward hell. Down here, it is hot for us also--high here today was 103°--but, we do have central air, practically unheard of where you are. Since it does sound like all the tanks are in one room, you might want to see if your local discount store has any room air conditioners left. It may be a worthwhile investment for a few days each summer. At this point, your big mistake was opening the windows. That is allowing the house to heat up even more than it would with them closed. The windows should remain closed during the day, and be covered with drapes or blinds, whatever you normally use. When the outdoor temperature drops lower than the house temperature, then you can open the windows. If you have a second story, fans up there, in the windows, can blow out the hot air, and help draw in the cooler air from the night. Then close the windows early in the morning. Increase your aeration. Warmer water will naturally hold less oxygen for your fish. If a tank does not have aeration, add it. You seem to be doing other things correctly, and adding cool water to counter the evaporation will also help. I do not know about up there, but they say the heat will break on Thursday down here, maybe only in the low 90's <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I use them for six tanks, and would that even help? Other thoughts? At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? Thanks:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48721	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .

Bill, I really do not know, but there is a guy in Canada that has a several thousand gallon freshwater display tank in his home that was built into the house when the house was built, I believe. I'll check around and see if anyone knows for sure on this tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . Hi \\Steve//   Your link here has brought an interesting question to mind.  Although there are many similar displays like this all over Florida and the Key's, especially in "Sea World".  I have always wondered about one thing:   Does anyone know what is the largest "In Home" aquarium and where is located? (thinking of expanding) <g>   Bill --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 6:17 AM > . . . then you need to eat at this > restaurant. You know, the one with the 75,000 gallon marine > aquarium. > > http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2010/07/05/news/iq_36680797.txt > http://tinyurl.com/269rp3k > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48722	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

Today was rough. The fish/bird room got to 92 and one of the tanks hit 86. The tanks would have risen higher it was just an oven in that room with lots of sun. The sun makes it impossible to leave the windows closed, and I can't use AC due to the shape of the windows. But the fan over the water surface worked well. Only problem is, six tanks, six fans? On hot days I can't leave the tanks? I am trying to freeze lots of plastic bottles of water now, but the freezer isn't working properly due to all the heat and humidity! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > Lainey, > > I feel for you. I know that up where you are, 85�F is a true scorcher, > higher than that and you think you may have made a wrong turn and are > heading toward hell. > > Down here, it is hot for us also--high here today was 103�--but, we > do have > central air, practically unheard of where you are. Since it does > sound like > all the tanks are in one room, you might want to see if your local > discount > store has any room air conditioners left. It may be a worthwhile > investment > for a few days each summer. > > At this point, your big mistake was opening the windows. That is > allowing > the house to heat up even more than it would with them closed. The > windows > should remain closed during the day, and be covered with drapes or > blinds, > whatever you normally use. When the outdoor temperature drops lower > than the > house temperature, then you can open the windows. If you have a second > story, fans up there, in the windows, can blow out the hot air, and > help > draw in the cooler air from the night. Then close the windows early > in the > morning. > > Increase your aeration. Warmer water will naturally hold less > oxygen for > your fish. If a tank does not have aeration, add it. > > You seem to be doing other things correctly, and adding cool water to > counter the evaporation will also help. > > I do not know about up there, but they say the heat will break on > Thursday > down here, maybe only in the low 90's <g>. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 2:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS > > My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major > heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just > got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room > temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy > more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I > use them for six tanks, and would that even help? > > Other thoughts? > > At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? > > Thanks:) > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48723	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

...I meant to add, (before someone mentions curtains!), there are seventeen windows in the fish/bird room - ouch! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Today was rough. The fish/bird room got to 92 and one of the tanks > hit 86. The tanks would have risen higher it was just an oven in that > room with lots of sun. The sun makes it impossible to leave the > windows closed, and I can't use AC due to the shape of the windows. > But the fan over the water surface worked well. Only problem is, six > tanks, six fans? On hot days I can't leave the tanks? I am trying to > freeze lots of plastic bottles of water now, but the freezer isn't > working properly due to all the heat and humidity! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jul 6, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > >> Lainey, >> >> I feel for you. I know that up where you are, 85°F is a true >> scorcher, >> higher than that and you think you may have made a wrong turn and are >> heading toward hell. >> >> Down here, it is hot for us also--high here today was 103°--but, we >> do have >> central air, practically unheard of where you are. Since it does >> sound like >> all the tanks are in one room, you might want to see if your local >> discount >> store has any room air conditioners left. It may be a worthwhile >> investment >> for a few days each summer. >> >> At this point, your big mistake was opening the windows. That is >> allowing >> the house to heat up even more than it would with them closed. The >> windows >> should remain closed during the day, and be covered with drapes or >> blinds, >> whatever you normally use. When the outdoor temperature drops lower >> than the >> house temperature, then you can open the windows. If you have a >> second >> story, fans up there, in the windows, can blow out the hot air, and >> help >> draw in the cooler air from the night. Then close the windows early >> in the >> morning. >> >> Increase your aeration. Warmer water will naturally hold less >> oxygen for >> your fish. If a tank does not have aeration, add it. >> >> You seem to be doing other things correctly, and adding cool water to >> counter the evaporation will also help. >> >> I do not know about up there, but they say the heat will break on >> Thursday >> down here, maybe only in the low 90's <g>. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 2:57 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS >> >> My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major >> heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just >> got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room >> temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy >> more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I >> use them for six tanks, and would that even help? >> >> Other thoughts? >> >> At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? >> >> Thanks:) >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48724	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

Gives new meaning to the advice about locating your tank away from windows and direct sunlight. What about one of those car dashboard reflectors behind each tank? Reflecting the light back outside? Planting big bushes/evergreen trees in front of the windows? I have a glass wall 23” high in my fishroom. But the roof is designed to overhang and the house is oriented so the sun cannot shine directly in at all in the summer and it shines in completely in the winter to warm the stone wall (fireplace) opposite the glass. Hooray for passive solar! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 8:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS ...I meant to add, (before someone mentions curtains!), there are seventeen windows in the fish/bird room - ouch! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Today was rough. The fish/bird room got to 92 and one of the tanks > hit 86. The tanks would have risen higher it was just an oven in that > room with lots of sun. The sun makes it impossible to leave the > windows closed, and I can't use AC due to the shape of the windows. > But the fan over the water surface worked well. Only problem is, six > tanks, six fans? On hot days I can't leave the tanks? I am trying to > freeze lots of plastic bottles of water now, but the freezer isn't > working properly due to all the heat and humidity! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jul 6, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > >> Lainey, >> >> I feel for you. I know that up where you are, 85°F is a true >> scorcher, >> higher than that and you think you may have made a wrong turn and are >> heading toward hell. >> >> Down here, it is hot for us also--high here today was 103°--but, we >> do have >> central air, practically unheard of where you are. Since it does >> sound like >> all the tanks are in one room, you might want to see if your local >> discount >> store has any room air conditioners left. It may be a worthwhile >> investment >> for a few days each summer. >> >> At this point, your big mistake was opening the windows. That is >> allowing >> the house to heat up even more than it would with them closed. The >> windows >> should remain closed during the day, and be covered with drapes or >> blinds, >> whatever you normally use. When the outdoor temperature drops lower >> than the >> house temperature, then you can open the windows. If you have a >> second >> story, fans up there, in the windows, can blow out the hot air, and >> help >> draw in the cooler air from the night. Then close the windows early >> in the >> morning. >> >> Increase your aeration. Warmer water will naturally hold less >> oxygen for >> your fish. If a tank does not have aeration, add it. >> >> You seem to be doing other things correctly, and adding cool water to >> counter the evaporation will also help. >> >> I do not know about up there, but they say the heat will break on >> Thursday >> down here, maybe only in the low 90's <g>. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 2:57 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS >> >> My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major >> heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just >> got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room >> temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy >> more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I >> use them for six tanks, and would that even help? >> >> Other thoughts? >> >> At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? >> >> Thanks:) >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48725	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

Actually, there is very little direct sun on my tanks, but the sun gets into the room itself and heats up the entire room. It is designed like an enclosed porch but rather is a finished room. I never noticed this problem before until I set up the fish in this room - my birds adore high temperatures. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 9:54 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > Gives new meaning to the advice about locating your tank away from > windows > and direct sunlight. What about one of those car dashboard reflectors > behind each tank? Reflecting the light back outside? > > Planting big bushes/evergreen trees in front of the windows? > > I have a glass wall 23� high in my fishroom. But the roof is > designed to > overhang and the house is oriented so the sun cannot shine directly > in at > all in the summer and it shines in completely in the winter to warm > the > stone wall (fireplace) opposite the glass. Hooray for passive solar! > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 8:24 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS > > ...I meant to add, (before someone mentions curtains!), there are > seventeen windows in the fish/bird room - ouch! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > Today was rough. The fish/bird room got to 92 and one of the tanks > > hit 86. The tanks would have risen higher it was just an oven in > that > > room with lots of sun. The sun makes it impossible to leave the > > windows closed, and I can't use AC due to the shape of the windows. > > But the fan over the water surface worked well. Only problem is, six > > tanks, six fans? On hot days I can't leave the tanks? I am trying to > > freeze lots of plastic bottles of water now, but the freezer isn't > > working properly due to all the heat and humidity! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Jul 6, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > >> Lainey, > >> > >> I feel for you. I know that up where you are, 85�F is a true > >> scorcher, > >> higher than that and you think you may have made a wrong turn > and are > >> heading toward hell. > >> > >> Down here, it is hot for us also--high here today was 103�--but, we > >> do have > >> central air, practically unheard of where you are. Since it does > >> sound like > >> all the tanks are in one room, you might want to see if your local > >> discount > >> store has any room air conditioners left. It may be a worthwhile > >> investment > >> for a few days each summer. > >> > >> At this point, your big mistake was opening the windows. That is > >> allowing > >> the house to heat up even more than it would with them closed. The > >> windows > >> should remain closed during the day, and be covered with drapes or > >> blinds, > >> whatever you normally use. When the outdoor temperature drops lower > >> than the > >> house temperature, then you can open the windows. If you have a > >> second > >> story, fans up there, in the windows, can blow out the hot air, and > >> help > >> draw in the cooler air from the night. Then close the windows early > >> in the > >> morning. > >> > >> Increase your aeration. Warmer water will naturally hold less > >> oxygen for > >> your fish. If a tank does not have aeration, add it. > >> > >> You seem to be doing other things correctly, and adding cool > water to > >> counter the evaporation will also help. > >> > >> I do not know about up there, but they say the heat will break on > >> Thursday > >> down here, maybe only in the low 90's <g>. > >> > >> \\Steve// > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 2:57 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS > >> > >> My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major > >> heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all > just > >> got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the > room > >> temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I > go buy > >> more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how > would I > >> use them for six tanks, and would that even help? > >> > >> Other thoughts? > >> > >> At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? > >> > >> Thanks:) > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48726	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Ready for fish?

If you are still getting a reading for ammonia, hold off on populating the tank. Get yourself some fresh reagent for the ammonia test kit and see if it is still giving you a reading for ammonia. If not, let it go for a day and retest with both reagents, new and old, to see what you get. If the new still says 0, then dispose of the old reagent and feel free to start planning your path to population in the tank. Probably would be wise to start with something that likes a bit of algae in the diet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:00 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ready for fish? Hey, everyone I've been gone on a business trip so haven't done any testing on my new salt water tank (30 gal) for a couple of weeks. It has live sand and live rock so should have been cycling. Testing this morning shows pH back to 8.2 (was low, presumably from the "pH buffer" in the water conditioner I was using, I changed) Ammonia down to .5 (from 1.0 two weeks ago) Nitrite remains 0 and Nitrate remains 10.0. I'm getting some growth of red algae. I forgot to update the house/farm sitters chore list so I doubt it got turned off at night. Future trips shouldn't be more than a couple of days and yes I'll adjust the list - especially if she has fishies etc to feed! Tomorrow is my day off so would be good time to get a critter or two. Start with some invertibrates? (shrimp, crabs) Should I do a PWC before I head off to the store? Thanks! Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48727	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: San Francisco Bay Area "Planted Aquariums for Dummies 101" July

San Francisco -----Original Message----- From: William M <dreammaker2623@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Jul 6, 2010 3:05 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: San Francisco Bay Area "Planted Aquariums for Dummies 101" July 9th Since this is a wide spread group, it might help to let others know what town/city and state this will take place in. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Grace" <ge_martin2@...> wrote: > > http://www.sfaquarium.org/drupal/ > > Meetings are free and open to everyone. > > "Event - July 9, 2010 7:00pm - Doug Pizzy > > Fort Mason Center, Building C, Room C370 > > > Doug Pizzy does not hold a BS in Aquatic Biology, a MS in Botany or a PhD in Plant Sciences. In fact, he does not > > claim to be an expert at all when it comes to growing aquatic plants and yet he is a keeper of glossostigma, narrow > > leaf java ferns, blyxa japonica and a variety of crypts. Doug also has experience raising and spawning the difficult > > species Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis. Over the years Doug has learned that you don't need to be a rocket scientist > > to have a nice planted aquarium. All it takes is a little patience and the desire to experiment and learn from your > > mistakes. > > Doug Pizzy has been a member of the SFAS since 1997 and owns a professional dog walking and pet sitting business who > > also enjoys photography, gardening, being a part-time musician and of course, maintaining beautiful planted > > aquariums. Doug will talk about the basics of growing aquatic plants including substrates, lighting, CO2, > > fertilizers and choosing the right plants and fish for your set up. > > Please join us and bring a friend. Get ready to say good-bye to plastic plants and learn how to make the live ones > > thrive! Meetings are free and open to everyone." > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48728	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

Lainey, Before the advent of the Florida fish farms many of the northern hatcheries employed greenhouses, as at least part of their construction -- but these locations were at least able to control the heat build-up induced by the solar radiation. In addition to bamboo blinds being able to be draw, these structures had roof vents the length of the buildings, with some being able to swing open the side panels. As your room will not allow for the installation of air conditioning, nor doers it seem that curtains and/or blinds/shades does not appear to be practical, you may now want to rethink this room for continued use with your fish tanks in the future since there doesn't seem to otherwise be any way to control its temperature. For now, all's you can do is increase the aeration and direct fans on the water's surfaces, having the evaporation help cool down these water columns. If you can move any of the inhabitants to tanks elsewhere in the house, all the better, or even if you can better divide up these fish more equally in these six tanks to prevent any one of them from being more crowded than any of the others, this will also help in dividing the oxygen demands more equally. As pristine water will hold the most oxygen at any degree of temperature at which it's predetermined to do so, make sure to have these tanks' water in the best possible condition by doing any PWC's and gravel-vacuuming that you see as being needed. It goes without saying, to continue with the frozen water bottles, etc., floated in the tanks. Depending on the species involved, even species which normally prefer temperatures much lower than that which you're experiencing should fair well, even up to 90 o or so, provided they are sparsely populated. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48729	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

There are stand up air conditioners that do not go in a window, you just need to run the hose to a window for an outlet, so it just needs to be nearby a window. Amber sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Lainey, Before the advent of the Florida fish farms many of the northern > hatcheries employed greenhouses, as at least part of their > construction -- > but these locations were at least able to control the heat build-up > induced by > the solar radiation. In addition to bamboo blinds being able to be draw, > these structures had roof vents the length of the buildings, with some > being > able to swing open the side panels. > > As your room will not allow for the installation of air conditioning, nor > doers it seem that curtains and/or blinds/shades does not appear to be > practical, you may now want to rethink this room for continued use > with your fish > tanks in the future since there doesn't seem to otherwise be any way to > control its temperature. > > For now, all's you can do is increase the aeration and direct fans on the > water's surfaces, having the evaporation help cool down these water > columns. > If you can move any of the inhabitants to tanks elsewhere in the > house, all > the better, or even if you can better divide up these fish more > equally in > these six tanks to prevent any one of them from being more crowded > than any > of the others, this will also help in dividing the oxygen demands more > equally. As pristine water will hold the most oxygen at any degree of > temperature at which it's predetermined to do so, make sure to have > these tanks' water > in the best possible condition by doing any PWC's and gravel-vacuuming > that > you see as being needed. It goes without saying, to continue with the > frozen water bottles, etc., floated in the tanks. Depending on the > species > involved, even species which normally prefer temperatures much lower > than that > which you're experiencing should fair well, even up to 90 o or so, > provided > they are sparsely populated. Ray </HTML> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48730	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2010
Subject: Re: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .

Monster fishkeepers may be a place to look for monster aquariums. I seem to recall some videos from that group with bBIG setups. There was a guy called Mr. 3000 or something like that. Last I heard though it was unused. Try youtube. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Jul 6, 2010 7:19 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . Hi \\Steve// Your link here has brought an interesting question to mind. Although there are many similar displays like this all over Florida and the Key's, especially in "Sea World". I have always wondered about one thing: Does anyone know what is the largest "In Home" aquarium and where is located? (thinking of expanding) <g> Bill --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 6:17 AM > . . . then you need to eat at this > restaurant. You know, the one with the 75,000 gallon marine > aquarium. > > http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2010/07/05/news/iq_36680797.txt > http://tinyurl.com/269rp3k > > \\Steve// > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48731	From: Janet224@farmtel.net	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ready for fish?

Hmm. Its a brand new kit. I tried the old test kit (had powedered reagents which took a long time and were a PITA to use, so I got a second kit with liquids) and got a .2 . Janet > If you are still getting a reading for ammonia, hold off on populating the > tank. Get yourself some fresh reagent for the ammonia test kit and see if > it > is still giving you a reading for ammonia. If not, let it go for a day and > retest with both reagents, new and old, to see what you get. If the new > still says 0, then dispose of the old reagent and feel free to start > planning your path to population in the tank. Probably would be wise to > start with something that likes a bit of algae in the diet. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Janet224@... > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:00 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ready for fish? > > Hey, everyone > > I've been gone on a business trip so haven't done any testing on my new > salt water tank (30 gal) for a couple of weeks. It has live sand and live > rock so should have been cycling. > > Testing this morning shows pH back to 8.2 (was low, presumably from the > "pH buffer" in the water conditioner I was using, I changed) Ammonia down > to .5 (from 1.0 two weeks ago) Nitrite remains 0 and Nitrate remains 10.0. > > I'm getting some growth of red algae. I forgot to update the house/farm > sitters chore list so I doubt it got turned off at night. Future trips > shouldn't be more than a couple of days and yes I'll adjust the list - > especially if she has fishies etc to feed! > > Tomorrow is my day off so would be good time to get a critter or two. > Start with some invertibrates? (shrimp, crabs) Should I do a PWC before I > head off to the store? > > Thanks! > > Janet > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48732	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

I really think this overheating situation is going to be no more than five or ten days per year because I live on a mountain with generally cool temperatures. If I can just figure out a system for the ten days, I should be fine. Thank you all for so many suggestions - my troubleshooting knapsack is bulging now:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 11:00 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Before the advent of the Florida fish farms many of the > northern > hatcheries employed greenhouses, as at least part of their > construction -- > but these locations were at least able to control the heat build-up > induced by > the solar radiation. In addition to bamboo blinds being able to be > draw, > these structures had roof vents the length of the buildings, with > some being > able to swing open the side panels. > > As your room will not allow for the installation of air > conditioning, nor > doers it seem that curtains and/or blinds/shades does not appear to be > practical, you may now want to rethink this room for continued use > with your fish > tanks in the future since there doesn't seem to otherwise be any > way to > control its temperature. > > For now, all's you can do is increase the aeration and direct fans > on the > water's surfaces, having the evaporation help cool down these water > columns. > If you can move any of the inhabitants to tanks elsewhere in the > house, all > the better, or even if you can better divide up these fish more > equally in > these six tanks to prevent any one of them from being more crowded > than any > of the others, this will also help in dividing the oxygen demands more > equally. As pristine water will hold the most oxygen at any degree of > temperature at which it's predetermined to do so, make sure to have > these tanks' water > in the best possible condition by doing any PWC's and gravel- > vacuuming that > you see as being needed. It goes without saying, to continue with the > frozen water bottles, etc., floated in the tanks. Depending on the > species > involved, even species which normally prefer temperatures much > lower than that > which you're experiencing should fair well, even up to 90 o or so, > provided > they are sparsely populated. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48733	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

The general consensus is that in the ensuing years going foward, the average temperatures are going to increase and the number of days of peak temperatures per year is likewise expected to multiply. Let's hope these studies/conclusions are wrong, but you may want to prepare yourself for it. For New Jersey, the 103 o F we had yesterday beat the previous record and today is approaching it. Seems as the years go by, there are often a number of previous records being broken. I will state at this point though, that I am not looking for a debate on the politics of global warming with this post as it is only meant to be a reminder of possible consequences of past inattentions we've visited upon our environment as related to weather-warming aquaria, and all other replies will be eliminated. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48734	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ready for fish?

Hi Janet, With reading the results of your new liquid test kit, I understand your level for Total Ammonia to be at 0.2 ppm, most of it still in the form of relatively harmless ammonium (Nh4+).. However, as the temperature and pH increases, greater amounts of toxic ammonia will be freed; most fishes being affected by a level of .020 ppm of Free Ammonia (NH3) as being toxic to them. Since I read your pH to be at 8.2, please know that your Free Ammonia being released from your Total Ammonia at 78 o, is at or very near the .020 ppm Free Ammonia which will start to become toxic to your fishes, and at 80 o, will certainly be toxic. This level is not enough to be lethal, but the toxicity will be causing stress -- enough to start respiration problems and health issues. I'd advise your making some PWC's, and with them, to use Prime which will convert any residual Free-Ammonia to Ammonium (NH4+). BTW, for easier reading by others, it's usually best to write a decimal test result starting with a Zero for the whole number, then using the decimal plus your reading -- such as 0.2 ppm or (0.20 ppm) for the Total Ammonia level you gave. In this way we cannot construe that you may have included an unintentional decimal point if you have taken the trouble to include the "0" ahead of it. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48735	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Evolution: Dreampond revisited

Very refreshing to read that there is some recovery on the horizon for fish in this lake. http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100707/full/466174a.html?s=news_rss A once-threatened population of African fish is now providing a view of evolution in action. Laura Spinney asks what Lake Victoria cichlids have revealed about speciation. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48736	From: harry perry	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS/Lainey

My neighbor has a passive solar home. The way it is designed the south wall is all glass. Various windows etc. It has a solar collector to assist the heater  in winter. The entire south wall needs an insulated curtain in summer and of course in winter the curtain is open. You might consider this for your situation. Just one big curtain to cover many windows, Harry --- On Wed, 7/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 1:31 AM I really think this overheating situation is going to be no more than  five or ten days per year because I live on a mountain with generally  cool temperatures. If I can just figure out a system for the ten  days, I should be fine. Thank you all for so many suggestions - my troubleshooting knapsack  is bulging now:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 11:00 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Before the advent of the Florida fish farms many of the  > northern > hatcheries employed greenhouses, as at least part of their  > construction -- > but these locations were at least able to control the heat build-up  > induced by > the solar radiation. In addition to bamboo blinds being able to be  > draw, > these structures had roof vents the length of the buildings, with  > some being > able to swing open the side panels. > > As your room will not allow for the installation of air  > conditioning, nor > doers it seem that curtains and/or blinds/shades does not appear to be > practical, you may now want to rethink this room for continued use  > with your fish > tanks in the future since there doesn't seem to otherwise be any  > way to > control its temperature. > > For now, all's you can do is increase the aeration and direct fans  > on the > water's surfaces, having the evaporation help cool down these water  > columns. > If you can move any of the inhabitants to tanks elsewhere in the  > house, all > the better, or even if you can better divide up these fish more  > equally in > these six tanks to prevent any one of them from being more crowded  > than any > of the others, this will also help in dividing the oxygen demands more > equally. As pristine water will hold the most oxygen at any degree of > temperature at which it's predetermined to do so, make sure to have  > these tanks' water > in the best possible condition by doing any PWC's and gravel- > vacuuming that > you see as being needed. It goes without saying, to continue with the > frozen water bottles, etc., floated in the tanks. Depending on the  > species > involved, even species which normally prefer temperatures much  > lower than that > which you're experiencing should fair well, even up to 90 o or so,  > provided > they are sparsely populated. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48737	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/7/2010
Subject: Re: Ready for fish?

Janet, As Ray has also indicated, the ammonia is going to be a problem. It is an issue which needs to be resolved. It is likely that the live sand or rock has not yet fully cycled. How long has the tank had the live sand and rock in it? There are water conditioners that will convert the ammonia to a non-toxic form. Go this route if you feel you must absolutely get some critters in the tank. You will still have the ammonia problem, though, and it should really be resolved first. If you do go that route, make sure the conditioner you choose will work in a marine environment. The water change is a good idea, but I am hesitant to mention, since I would advice a 25% change, and I am not aware of the current pricing on marine salt mix. A 25% change should bring your ammonia level down to about 0.15. If it still rises after that, then the tank has truly not finished the cycle, and you still have items dying, most likely on the rock, though I would not leave the sand out of the picture. If that is the case, you can use the time to decide exactly what critters you would like in the tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janet224@... Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 7:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ready for fish? Hmm. Its a brand new kit. I tried the old test kit (had powedered reagents which took a long time and were a PITA to use, so I got a second kit with liquids) and got a .2 . Janet > If you are still getting a reading for ammonia, hold off on populating the > tank. Get yourself some fresh reagent for the ammonia test kit and see if > it > is still giving you a reading for ammonia. If not, let it go for a day and > retest with both reagents, new and old, to see what you get. If the new > still says 0, then dispose of the old reagent and feel free to start > planning your path to population in the tank. Probably would be wise to > start with something that likes a bit of algae in the diet. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Janet224@... > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:00 AM > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ready for fish? > > Hey, everyone > > I've been gone on a business trip so haven't done any testing on my new > salt water tank (30 gal) for a couple of weeks. It has live sand and live > rock so should have been cycling. > > Testing this morning shows pH back to 8.2 (was low, presumably from the > "pH buffer" in the water conditioner I was using, I changed) Ammonia down > to .5 (from 1.0 two weeks ago) Nitrite remains 0 and Nitrate remains 10.0. > > I'm getting some growth of red algae. I forgot to update the house/farm > sitters chore list so I doubt it got turned off at night. Future trips > shouldn't be more than a couple of days and yes I'll adjust the list - > especially if she has fishies etc to feed! > > Tomorrow is my day off so would be good time to get a critter or two. > Start with some invertibrates? (shrimp, crabs) Should I do a PWC before I > head off to the store? > > Thanks! > > Janet >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48738	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/8/2010
Subject: Evolution: Dreampond revisited : Nature News

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100707/full/466174a.html?s=news_rss http://tinyurl.com/2d7zmxu An article about a cichlid comeback in Lake Victoria, Africa. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48739	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: 20-year census of Lake Tanganyika fish

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2989&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July_7_2010&utm_term=20-year_census_of_Lake_Tanganyika_fish_&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2aueapy 20-year census of Lake Tanganyika fish Japanese scientists carrying out a two-decade survey of a patch of rocky shoreline in Lake Tanganyika have recorded significant changes in the fish community, according to a paper published in the most recent issue of the journal Ecology of Freshwater Fish. Yuichi Takeuchi and coauthors arrived at this conclusion surveying the diversity and abundance of the fish community in Kasenga Point at the southern end of Lake Tanganyika from 1988-2008. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48740	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Large Home Tanks WAS: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .

Bill, Here is a home tank you can sink your teeth into, or, at least, maybe go swimming in. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3012&utm_source=PFK_ne wsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July_7_2010&utm_term=Your_tanks:_Mark _Howarth&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2bx9xgm Your tanks: Mark Howarth As private collections go, Mark Howarth thinks big. John Clipperton goes back to a house that’s streets ahead when it comes to displaying corals. Being confronted by the display tank at Acropora House in 2004 was a key moment in the early stages of my involvement in reefkeeping. Just starting out as a keen aquatic photographer, I was like that kid in the sweet shop! I hardly knew what to shoot first, such was the outrageous scale and mesmerising diversity of the display before me. Struggling to afford even a small system, I suppose I could have been disheartened by what I saw. Yet I left feeling inspired — and I still feel this emotion whenever I see the tank. I had never witnessed anything even remotely in this league before, not even at a public aquarium. For a start, located in its own out-building, even the shape of the tank is something out of the ordinary. In an L-shaped format, the two back panels measure an impressive 3m/10’ and 2.5m/8’ respectively. Combine this with 1.2m/4’ of height and 1.2m/4’ of width and you begin to appreciate the massive volume involved. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . Bill, I really do not know, but there is a guy in Canada that has a several thousand gallon freshwater display tank in his home that was built into the house when the house was built, I believe. I'll check around and see if anyone knows for sure on this tank. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . Hi \\Steve//   Your link here has brought an interesting question to mind.  Although there are many similar displays like this all over Florida and the Key's, especially in "Sea World".  I have always wondered about one thing:   Does anyone know what is the largest "In Home" aquarium and where is located? (thinking of expanding) <g>   Bill --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 6:17 AM > . . . then you need to eat at this > restaurant. You know, the one with the 75,000 gallon marine > aquarium. > > http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2010/07/05/news/iq_36680797.txt > http://tinyurl.com/269rp3k > > \\Steve// > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48741	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Re: Large Home Tanks WAS: If You Are Going to Vegas . . .

My teeth and the rest of me too! She's sizable alright, thanks \\Steve//, Bill --- On Sat, 7/10/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Large Home Tanks WAS: If You Are Going to Vegas . . . > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, July 10, 2010, 11:15 AM > Bill, > > Here is a home tank you can sink your teeth into, or, at > least, maybe go > swimming in. > > http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3012&utm_source=PFK_ne > wsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July_7_2010&utm_term=Your_tanks:_Mark > _Howarth&utm_content=html > http://tinyurl.com/2bx9xgm > > Your tanks: Mark Howarth > > As private collections go, Mark Howarth thinks big. John > Clipperton goes > back to a house that’s streets ahead when it comes to > displaying corals. > > Being confronted by the display tank at Acropora House in > 2004 was a key > moment in the early stages of my involvement in > reefkeeping. Just starting > out as a keen aquatic photographer, I was like that kid in > the sweet shop! > > I hardly knew what to shoot first, such was the outrageous > scale and > mesmerising diversity of the display before me. Struggling > to afford even a > small system, I suppose I could have been disheartened by > what I saw. Yet I > left feeling inspired — and I still feel this emotion > whenever I see the > tank. > > I had never witnessed anything even remotely in this league > before, not even > at a public aquarium. > > For a start, located in its own out-building, even the > shape of the tank is > something out of the ordinary. In an L-shaped format, the > two back panels > measure an impressive 3m/10’ and 2.5m/8’ respectively. > Combine this with > 1.2m/4’ of height and 1.2m/4’ of width and you begin to > appreciate the > massive volume involved. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 8:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . > > Bill, > > I really do not know, but there is a guy in Canada that has > a several > thousand gallon freshwater display tank in his home that > was built into the > house when the house was built, I believe. I'll check > around and see if > anyone knows for sure on this tank. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of bill 1433 > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . . > > Hi \\Steve// >   > Your link here has brought an interesting question to > mind.  Although there > are many similar displays like this all over Florida and > the Key's, > especially in "Sea World".  I have always wondered about > one thing: >   > Does anyone know what is the largest "In Home" aquarium and > where is > located? > (thinking of expanding) <g> >   > Bill > > --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] If You Are Going to Vegas . . > . > > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 6:17 AM > > . . . then you need to eat at this > > restaurant. You know, the one with the 75,000 gallon > marine > > aquarium. > > > > http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2010/07/05/news/iq_36680797.txt > > http://tinyurl.com/269rp3k > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the > home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48742	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: San Jose CA, 7-10 7PM, Pacific Coast Cichlid Association PCCA

http://www.cichlidworld.com/ the Pacific Coast Cichlid Association(PCCA) is proud to announce July 10, 2010: Mr. David Soares from Sisters, Oregon, as our speaker on "Apistogramma" Time: 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm Location: Round Table Pizza, 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd, San Jose, CA, 95129 The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48743	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: New England Aquarium

I went to the New England Aquarium in Boston today, and had an awful time. I hadn't been to this aquarium since maybe the 1980s and thought it would be a state of the art facility now. I went to see the leafy sea dragon display which I found fairly depressing, considering how difficult it is to even procure this endangered species. There were a large number of really big FW fish, maybe three to four feet long, in enclosures that could not have been more than seven by five feet, and some of these fish did not seem able to turn their bodies around let alone swim. The center cylindrical tank was horrifically overstuffed with huge fish like sharks many of which appeared to be morbidly obese. The numbers were staggering, and obviously they are overfed to keep them docile. But many of these fish were just swollen with food. All the displays appeared dirty. I want to write a letter to them or contact them because I am so appalled, but I would like to know more about this type of facility and their state of the art type standards. Is it common for these places to keep their displays as per the above? Should I write to them? The place was so crowded that we had to leave because you could barely get near any of the exhibits even if they had been nice. So all these people are getting the impression that this is a humane approach. I'm very upset! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48744	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium

Lainey, If you ever get a chance, you should visit the National Aquarium in Baltimore, Maryland. In terms of having adequate room for the fishes, it's just the opposite of what you're descibing of Boston. Hugh facikities. The Tennessee Public Aquarium in Chattanooga also has lots of room for their displays, as does the fairly new (opened, 2005) Georgia Public Aquarium in Atlanta -- it's billed as "The Worlds's Largest Aquarium": and is state of the art. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48745	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium

That is good to know, Ray, thanks for mentioning those aquariums. I am trying to think what I could do as a responsible caring person in response to this facility in Boston, which I do remember, from growing up in Boston, and going to the NEA about twenty or more times, as being pretty decent and very well respected. Now it's really tacky and commercial - or so it seems. If they get enough negative feedback I wonder if that could help to make a change? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 11, 2010, at 12:12 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, If you ever get a chance, you should visit the National > Aquarium > in Baltimore, Maryland. In terms of having adequate room for the > fishes, > it's just the opposite of what you're descibing of Boston. Hugh > facikities. > > The Tennessee Public Aquarium in Chattanooga also has lots of room for > their displays, as does the fairly new (opened, 2005) Georgia > Public Aquarium in > Atlanta -- it's billed as "The Worlds's Largest Aquarium": and is > state of > the art. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48746	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/10/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium

I mean, if their display tanks are small, why not have small fish? I can't help but think it's about money, and the four foot pleco will simply draw a bigger crowd. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 11, 2010, at 12:12 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, If you ever get a chance, you should visit the National > Aquarium > in Baltimore, Maryland. In terms of having adequate room for the > fishes, > it's just the opposite of what you're descibing of Boston. Hugh > facikities. > > The Tennessee Public Aquarium in Chattanooga also has lots of room for > their displays, as does the fairly new (opened, 2005) Georgia > Public Aquarium in > Atlanta -- it's billed as "The Worlds's Largest Aquarium": and is > state of > the art. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48747	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: FW: Water Quality Monitoring Aquaculture Twilight Meeting and Tour a

I've cut out all the extraneous material to give you just the meat of the message. If you live in or near Worcester, MA, area, or will be near there on your vacation, you may wish to check this event out. Unfortunately, it is occurring 3 weeks too soon for me. \\Steve// Water Quality Monitoring Aquaculture Twilight Meeting and Tour July 28, 2010 6 pm to 8:30 pm Alden Research Laboratory 30 Shrewsbury Street Holden, MA Alden Research Laboratory is an acclaimed leader in solving flow-related engineering and environmental problems. The Environmental and Engineering Services Department utilizes fresh and estuary fish of various life-stages to conduct behavioral and survival studies. These studies evaluate the biological and engineering performance of existing and developing fish passage and protection technologies for the power generation industry. Aquaculture at Alden is unique in that fish are not spawned or grown for production within the facility, but rather held only for the duration of behavioral testing, which in many cases is only a matter of months. Alden's aquaculture program and facilities has been continuously developing over the past 30 years and have had the flexibility to hold and test over 30 species of fish in any life-stage of interest. During the workshop attendees will tour Alden's Environmental testing facilities and see past and present studies while also viewing numerous recirculating adult and larval/juvenile aquaculture systems. Fish species include juvenile: white sucker, golden shiner, common carp, bigmouth buffalo, bluegill, adult rainbow trout and adult largemouth bass. YSI, Inc. is a leading manufacturer of water quality monitoring instrumentation typically used in aquaculture farming to monitor for parameters like dissolved oxygen, temperature, conductivity and pH. Throughout the tour of Alden, Barrett Gaylord, the northeastern YSI representative will discuss various monitoring technologies that can be used in different applications throughout an aquaculture system. The technologies discussed will include instruments engineered specifically for recirculating aquaculture systems which integrate process control, feeding, alarming and data management in a single tank, or throughout a network of tanks. Barrett will also discuss the dos and don'ts of using monitoring instruments, and how to achieve the best quality data. PRE-REGISTRATION Phone or email Craig Hollingsworth to let us know you plan to attend. (413) 545-1055 or chollingsworth@... DIRECTIONS to Alden Research Laboratories from MA ROUTE 2 1. Take I-190 S (signs for Leominster Worcester) 16.3 mi 2. Take exit 3 for W Mountain St toward Holden/Boylston 0.3 mi 3. Turn right at W Mountain St 0.1 mi 4. Continue onto Doyle Rd 0.8 mi 5. Turn left at Shrewsbury St 6. Alden, at 30 Shrewsbury St, is on the right Hosted by Western Massachusetts Center for Sustainable Aquaculture, Alden Research Laboratory, YSI, Inc. and University of Massachusetts Extension [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48748	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium

Lainey: I don't often chime in but this post made me sad. Write a letter - if they get enough complaints perhaps conditions will improve. Next time try visiting the beautiful Monterey Bay Aquarium here in CA. You will not regret it and it will seriously not make you upset for the fishes well being. We go often and tho it is always a bit crowded you can always find a spot to view some of the most naturally scaped settings for marine life anywhere. Check out their website: www.montereybayaquarium.org Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > I went to the New England Aquarium in Boston today, and had an awful > time. I hadn't been to this aquarium since maybe the 1980s and > thought it would be a state of the art facility now. I went to see > the leafy sea dragon display which I found fairly depressing, > considering how difficult it is to even procure this endangered species. > > There were a large number of really big FW fish, maybe three to four > feet long, in enclosures that could not have been more than seven by > five feet, and some of these fish did not seem able to turn their > bodies around let alone swim. > > The center cylindrical tank was horrifically overstuffed with huge > fish like sharks many of which appeared to be morbidly obese. The > numbers were staggering, and obviously they are overfed to keep them > docile. But many of these fish were just swollen with food. > > All the displays appeared dirty. > > I want to write a letter to them or contact them because I am so > appalled, but I would like to know more about this type of facility > and their state of the art type standards. Is it common for these > places to keep their displays as per the above? > > Should I write to them? > > The place was so crowded that we had to leave because you could > barely get near any of the exhibits even if they had been nice. So > all these people are getting the impression that this is a humane > approach. > > I'm very upset! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48749	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium

Hi Clare - I just finished writing the New England Aqarium a very heartfelt plea to re-home these poor fish to larger quarters. Also, I blasted them in a one star review on yelp. The whole reason I went was that my partner, John, just returned from a visit to the Monterey Bay Aquarium where he was thrilled by the entire experience and especially the sea dragon display. Since they have sea dragons at NEQ, we figured it must be a comparable facility (sea dragons are so endangered that only special facilities can procure them). How wrong we were. Enjoy Monterey... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 11, 2010, at 11:02 AM, cobra427lady wrote: > Lainey: > > I don't often chime in but this post made me sad. Write a letter - > if they get enough complaints perhaps conditions will improve. > > Next time try visiting the beautiful Monterey Bay Aquarium here in > CA. You will not regret it and it will seriously not make you upset > for the fishes well being. We go often and tho it is always a bit > crowded you can always find a spot to view some of the most > naturally scaped settings for marine life anywhere. Check out their > website: > > www.montereybayaquarium.org > > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > I went to the New England Aquarium in Boston today, and had an awful > > time. I hadn't been to this aquarium since maybe the 1980s and > > thought it would be a state of the art facility now. I went to see > > the leafy sea dragon display which I found fairly depressing, > > considering how difficult it is to even procure this endangered > species. > > > > There were a large number of really big FW fish, maybe three to four > > feet long, in enclosures that could not have been more than seven by > > five feet, and some of these fish did not seem able to turn their > > bodies around let alone swim. > > > > The center cylindrical tank was horrifically overstuffed with huge > > fish like sharks many of which appeared to be morbidly obese. The > > numbers were staggering, and obviously they are overfed to keep them > > docile. But many of these fish were just swollen with food. > > > > All the displays appeared dirty. > > > > I want to write a letter to them or contact them because I am so > > appalled, but I would like to know more about this type of facility > > and their state of the art type standards. Is it common for these > > places to keep their displays as per the above? > > > > Should I write to them? > > > > The place was so crowded that we had to leave because you could > > barely get near any of the exhibits even if they had been nice. So > > all these people are getting the impression that this is a humane > > approach. > > > > I'm very upset! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48750	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: Re: Heatwave SOS

Lainey! I went and got 2'X1" wood and made frames that go outside the window AND COVERED THE FRAMES WITH SHADE CLOTH. Droped the temperature of the room several degrees. Makes your fans work much bettter. Try and find a swamp cooler type fam, your birds and fish will be gratefull. Enid ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 7:24:09 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS ...I meant to add, (before someone mentions curtains!), there are seventeen windows in the fish/bird room - ouch! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Today was rough. The fish/bird room got to 92 and one of the tanks > hit 86. The tanks would have risen higher it was just an oven in that > room with lots of sun. The sun makes it impossible to leave the > windows closed, and I can't use AC due to the shape of the windows. > But the fan over the water surface worked well. Only problem is, six > tanks, six fans? On hot days I can't leave the tanks? I am trying to > freeze lots of plastic bottles of water now, but the freezer isn't > working properly due to all the heat and humidity! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jul 6, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > >> Lainey, >> >> I feel for you. I know that up where you are, 85°F is a true >> scorcher, >> higher than that and you think you may have made a wrong turn and are >> heading toward hell. >> >> Down here, it is hot for us also--high here today was 103°--but, we >> do have >> central air, practically unheard of where you are. Since it does >> sound like >> all the tanks are in one room, you might want to see if your local >> discount >> store has any room air conditioners left. It may be a worthwhile >> investment >> for a few days each summer. >> >> At this point, your big mistake was opening the windows. That is >> allowing >> the house to heat up even more than it would with them closed. The >> windows >> should remain closed during the day, and be covered with drapes or >> blinds, >> whatever you normally use. When the outdoor temperature drops lower >> than the >> house temperature, then you can open the windows. If you have a >> second >> story, fans up there, in the windows, can blow out the hot air, and >> help >> draw in the cooler air from the night. Then close the windows early >> in the >> morning. >> >> Increase your aeration. Warmer water will naturally hold less >> oxygen for >> your fish. If a tank does not have aeration, add it. >> >> You seem to be doing other things correctly, and adding cool water to >> counter the evaporation will also help. >> >> I do not know about up there, but they say the heat will break on >> Thursday >> down here, maybe only in the low 90's <g>. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Lainey Alexander >> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 2:57 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Heatwave SOS >> >> My tanks are at 84 and rising, I have six tanks, no AC, major >> heatwave, I put ice packs in ziplocks in the tanks and they all just >> got hot without lowering the temps. I have windows open, but the room >> temp is 90 and I don't see what fans will do to help. Should I go buy >> more ice - ice store half hour away? I have two fans, but how would I >> use them for six tanks, and would that even help? >> >> Other thoughts? >> >> At what temp are the fish in real danger? Now? >> >> Thanks:) >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48751	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/11/2010
Subject: Re: New England Aquarium

You go, girl! I applaud you...... Glad your partner enjoyed Monterey - we live only an hour or so north and never tire of going down to that area. If you ever make it out with him, go to Carmel after you visit the aquarium - there's a terrific oyster bar with the best bloody marys and finest raw oysters the West Coast can offer called A.W. Shucks - we go there every visit. Okay, I am done being Tina Tourist Advisor LOL Now, go hug your fish tanks :-) Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Hi Clare - > > I just finished writing the New England Aqarium a very heartfelt plea > to re-home these poor fish to larger quarters. Also, I blasted them > in a one star review on yelp. > > The whole reason I went was that my partner, John, just returned from > a visit to the Monterey Bay Aquarium where he was thrilled by the > entire experience and especially the sea dragon display. Since they > have sea dragons at NEQ, we figured it must be a comparable facility > (sea dragons are so endangered that only special facilities can > procure them). How wrong we were. > > Enjoy Monterey... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Jul 11, 2010, at 11:02 AM, cobra427lady wrote: > > > Lainey: > > > > I don't often chime in but this post made me sad. Write a letter - > > if they get enough complaints perhaps conditions will improve. > > > > Next time try visiting the beautiful Monterey Bay Aquarium here in > > CA. You will not regret it and it will seriously not make you upset > > for the fishes well being. We go often and tho it is always a bit > > crowded you can always find a spot to view some of the most > > naturally scaped settings for marine life anywhere. Check out their > > website: > > > > www.montereybayaquarium.org > > > > Cheers, > > Clare > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > I went to the New England Aquarium in Boston today, and had an awful > > > time. I hadn't been to this aquarium since maybe the 1980s and > > > thought it would be a state of the art facility now. I went to see > > > the leafy sea dragon display which I found fairly depressing, > > > considering how difficult it is to even procure this endangered > > species. > > > > > > There were a large number of really big FW fish, maybe three to four > > > feet long, in enclosures that could not have been more than seven by > > > five feet, and some of these fish did not seem able to turn their > > > bodies around let alone swim. > > > > > > The center cylindrical tank was horrifically overstuffed with huge > > > fish like sharks many of which appeared to be morbidly obese. The > > > numbers were staggering, and obviously they are overfed to keep them > > > docile. But many of these fish were just swollen with food. > > > > > > All the displays appeared dirty. > > > > > > I want to write a letter to them or contact them because I am so > > > appalled, but I would like to know more about this type of facility > > > and their state of the art type standards. Is it common for these > > > places to keep their displays as per the above? > > > > > > Should I write to them? > > > > > > The place was so crowded that we had to leave because you could > > > barely get near any of the exhibits even if they had been nice. So > > > all these people are getting the impression that this is a humane > > > approach. > > > > > > I'm very upset! > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48752	From: Noura	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Brown Filter Media

Hi Why is there a brown sticky stuff in and on my cichlid tank's internal power filter, unlike my other two -more stocked- tanks? I can't provide water parameters cause I've ran out of test kits, but I believe that the cichlids have a more alkaline water because there are a few rocks to their tanks for caves. Don't know if pH is related to the brown stuff build-up. There are 5 3" cichlids in a 32G tank. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48753	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media

Cichlids are bulky fish and produce a lot of waste. That's why 10X gph hourly is recommended for filtration. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:20 PM To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Filter Media Hi Why is there a brown sticky stuff in and on my cichlid tank's internal power filter, unlike my other two -more stocked- tanks? I can't provide water parameters cause I've ran out of test kits, but I believe that the cichlids have a more alkaline water because there are a few rocks to their tanks for caves. Don't know if pH is related to the brown stuff build-up. There are 5 3" cichlids in a 32G tank. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48754	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media

Hi Noura, It might help if you tell us exactly what your feeding these guys, how often and how much. Bill --- On Wed, 7/14/10, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: > From: Noura <n-taweel@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Filter Media > To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 6:20 PM > Hi > > Why is there a brown sticky stuff in and on my cichlid > tank's internal power > filter, unlike my other two -more stocked- tanks? > > I can't provide water parameters cause I've ran out of test > kits, but I > believe that the cichlids have a more alkaline water > because there are  a > few rocks to their tanks for caves. Don't know if pH is > related to the brown > stuff build-up. > > There are 5 3" cichlids in a 32G tank. > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48755	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media

Brown sticky stuff? You don't mean the diatoms it filters out of the water? Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noura" <n-taweel@...> To: <Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 5:20 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Filter Media Hi Why is there a brown sticky stuff in and on my cichlid tank's internal power filter, unlike my other two -more stocked- tanks? I can't provide water parameters cause I've ran out of test kits, but I believe that the cichlids have a more alkaline water because there are a few rocks to their tanks for caves. Don't know if pH is related to the brown stuff build-up. There are 5 3" cichlids in a 32G tank. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48756	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/14/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media

Noura, You really do not give much information to go on. However, to hazard a guess, it could be caused by an excessive load of Dissolved Organic Compounds (DOC). As someone has mentioned, cichlids have a tendency to be messy fish, and for many species, more filtration is needed than for most other fish. A pretty good way to determine if it is a DOC problem is if the water seems to foam up more than in your other tanks, bubbles created by aeration or from the flow of the filter return last longer than they otherwise should. What you may do is to step up your water changes. If you are changing water once a week, then double up to do them twice a week, removing the same amount of water you now remove each time. This should gradually reduce the DOC's. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:20 PM To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brown Filter Media Hi Why is there a brown sticky stuff in and on my cichlid tank's internal power filter, unlike my other two -more stocked- tanks? I can't provide water parameters cause I've ran out of test kits, but I believe that the cichlids have a more alkaline water because there are a few rocks to their tanks for caves. Don't know if pH is related to the brown stuff build-up. There are 5 3" cichlids in a 32G tank. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48757	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/16/2010
Subject: Study officially documents seahorse trade

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3038&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July_15_2010&utm_term=Study_officially_documents_seahorse_trade&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/28fm577 [Site may require registration.] Study officially documents seahorse trade Study officially documents seahorse trade Copyright (c) Nick Hobgood, Creative Commons A study has been released which officially documents trade in seahorses in Thailand and Malaysia. Preliminary studies and anecdotal reports had suggested that these countries were an important source of the seahorses used in traditional medicine, curios and aquarium display, but relatively few studies had been done historically. Although all seahorse species (genus Hippocampus) are listed under CITES Appendix II, which means that exports must be regulated for sustainability, a dearth of knowledge on seahorse biology, fisheries, and trade means this is relatively difficult to achieve. Few seahorse populations have been surveyed, effectively no landings data are available, and few countries have historically recorded any aspect of seahorse trade, to the point where many officials did not realise before 2004, when the legislation was introduced, that their countries were involved. By interviewing fishermen and participants at many levels of the trade and cross referencing them with official trade documents, the study found that the majority of seahorses were caught as trawler bycatch. Both countries were found to both import and export seahorses to other Asian nations with both Malaysia and Thailand each exporting in excess of 10,000 kg each year. Fishers and traders in both countries reported decreasing availability of seahorses, raising conservation concerns. These apparent declines, in combination with substantial domestic consumption, point towards the challenges that Malaysia and Thailand face in establishing sustainable levels of exports under CITES. Published: Nicolette Craig Thursday 15 July 2010, 3:32 pm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48758	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/17/2010
Subject: Pistol Shrimp: The Crustacean that Packs an Explosive Punch

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/biology/news-1-shrimp-you-wouldnt-want-meet-dark-alley http://tinyurl.com/28o892d Pistol Shrimp: The Crustacean that Packs an Explosive Punch Submarines during WWII discovered they couldn't detect enemy ships. Something was interfering with their sonar. The cause? A 2 inch long shrimp with an oversized claw. Pistol shrimp have one normal claw, and one claw that is about half the size of their bodies. The claw stays open until a muscle causes it to snap closed, ejecting a powerful jet of water traveling at an incredible 60mph. The snapping sound itself reaches 218 decibels - your eardrum ruptures at a mere 150. A bubble forms in the low pressure area behind the stream of water, which is called a cavitation bubble. As the bubble implodes, it produces a flash of light and the interior temperature reaches over 5,000 degrees Kelvin - that's close to the surface temperature of the sun! --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48760	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/18/2010
Subject: Win a FREE iPad from Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine!

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/ipad/ > Offer expires Friday July 23, 2010  > ONLY 5 DAYS LEFT to get a one-year subscription to TFH Digital for only $1 and be entered into our FREE iPad giveaway! > Visit www.tfhmagazine.com/ipad for your chance to win! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48761	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/18/2010
Subject: Endangered, Threatened or Extinct Species

How many Endangered & Threatened (or Extinct) Species are (were) there in the Aquarium Trade? ----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2477 "Is it time to stop buying Puntius denisonii? ... The downward spiral Nothing much was known about the conservation status of Puntius denisonii before collecting started in 1996-1997, but in the 12 or 13 years since it commenced, stocks have become rapidly depleted and the fish is now regarded by scientists as an endangered species. However, despite this 'endangered' status, the trade in Puntius denisonii has continued at the same rate. ..." ------------------------------------------ How many Endangered & Threatened (or Extinct) Species are (were) there in the Aqurium Trade?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48762	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/18/2010
Subject: Re: Endangered, Threatened or Extinct Species

In this country, probably about 95% of the fish sold are raised commercially, either here or in the Far East. Europe gets a higher percentage of wild imports than we do, mainly because they are willing to pay the price for them. They also get a lot of fish we almost never see here, for the same reason. If a fish is on a CITES list, it cannot be imported except under certain circumstances. The Asian arowana (_Scleropages formosus_) is listed by CITES, but you can still purchase it. They are all captive raised fish, and they are under heavy regulation. Each fish sold is micro chipped and has a certificate that goes along with it. You can go through the web site of Dragon Fish Industry (http://www.dragonfish.com/) for more information. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AquaticLife Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 2:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Endangered, Threatened or Extinct Species How many Endangered & Threatened (or Extinct) Species are (were) there in the Aquarium Trade? ----------------------------------------------------------- http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2477 "Is it time to stop buying Puntius denisonii? ... The downward spiral Nothing much was known about the conservation status of Puntius denisonii before collecting started in 1996-1997, but in the 12 or 13 years since it commenced, stocks have become rapidly depleted and the fish is now regarded by scientists as an endangered species. However, despite this 'endangered' status, the trade in Puntius denisonii has continued at the same rate. ..." ------------------------------------------ How many Endangered & Threatened (or Extinct) Species are (were) there in the Aqurium Trade? ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48763	From: Noura	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Re: Brown Filter Media

Hi, Feeding schedule: 1-2 times aday. I feed them chchlid flakes, spirulina flakes, cucumber slices or lettuce (once a week). The quantity is reasonable, because they finish it in less than a minute (feeding them a 2-5 minutes worth of food means a HUGE quantity for these little pigs, so I give them what 'I' want!) I do 25% PWC weekly. There's no foam or prolonged time for airstone bubbles to vanish, it's all normal. The brown stuff is only inside the filter and on the air tubes and filter intakes, the rest of the tank is clean, so I don't know if that's diatoms or not. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48764	From: sirreginaldoftheblade	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Questions with New Tank

Hi Everyone, I have a few questions. I recently started an 85 g tank with approximaely 65 gallons of water in it. I intend to have a surface to the tank as well. Anyway, after 2 weeks I have some amazon sword plants in there and 2 albino corys and 3 neon tetra as I wait for the tank to cycle. I equipped the tank with the following: Substrate: Red Flourite Filter: Fluval U4 Underwater Filter using the spray coming out above the water surface to create a waterfall effect Thermometer: Fluval M300 300 watts Lighting: 2 Aqua-Glo T8 18,000 K bulbs Plant Nutrition: Seachem Flourish So, a couple of questions. If I plant my tank with Echinodorus plants, is the lighting system acceptable or do I need more/less. How many hours a day do the lights need to be on? Regarding plant fertilization...I heard the flourite is an acceptale substrate...is that with the Flourish enough or do I need other/additional plant food or a CO2 system? For those using the red flourite, obviously when you put it in the tank, the tank becomes red and clears over a couple of days...can I assume that eventual water changes (after tank cycling) will take care of that problems permamently? thanks, Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48765	From: olesonjo	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: fancy goldfish color change

My goldfish has gone from having a black dorsal fin and tail, to only having a spot of black on his tail and fin. I found a post about this on the GAB, but I am not a member there. That post said it is a morphological color change. http://thegab.org/Goldfish/developmental-color-change-in-goldfish.html It seems this is not cause for alarm, but does anyone have any other information about this sort of change? I have photos, but don't seem to be able to attach them here. Thanks, Joanna

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48766	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Re: fancy goldfish color change

Hi Joanna, Just go to the "group site" at: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ Go to the photo's section on the left side of your screen, create a folder for yourself and post your photo's in that. The group does not support direct photo links or attachments to its direct mail here. Give one of our moderators a day to approve your photo's and that's it. Welcome aboard,and remember also to tell us all or something about your tank. Things like temperature, water hardness, how many fish in what size tank. All these things will help folks, help you. Bill --- On Mon, 7/19/10, olesonjo <olesonjo@...> wrote: > From: olesonjo <olesonjo@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] fancy goldfish color change > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 7:04 PM > My goldfish has gone from having a > black dorsal fin and tail, to only having a spot of black on > his tail and fin. I found a post about this on the GAB, but > I am not a member there. That post said it is a > morphological color change. > > http://thegab.org/Goldfish/developmental-color-change-in-goldfish.html > > It seems this is not cause for alarm, but does anyone have > any other information about this sort of change? > > I have photos, but don't seem to be able to attach them > here. > Thanks, > Joanna > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48767	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Re: Questions with New Tank

Ken, Sorry, but I cannot answer your questions about the plants and light, however, I'll comment on the use of CO2. CO2 is generally not needed to be added for good plant growth. It is generally used by those who are more interested in the plants and not the fish. If you do feel the need to experiment with it, do it slowly and on a small scale. The addition of CO2 will change the chemistry of your water and this change can be measured and monitored as a guide when dosing with CO2. Now onto something I do know about. Unfortunately you are cycling your tank with fish. Fortunately, you only have a few fish, so the effects on them in the short term are not likely to be deleterious to them, however, over the long term the cumulative effects may be. The amount of nitrogenous waste produced by these fish may not even be measurable in the amount of water you have in the tank. Your tank may already be cycled for all intents and purposes for the amount of fish you have in it. That is the good news. The bad news is that every time you add more fish, your tank will go through a mini-cycle where the ammonia will rise, followed by the nitrites and then the nitrates. The fish that will suffer the most will be those who have been in the tank the longest, as more and more cumulative effects will hurt them more. If you add al lot of fish at once, all the fish will be affected while the bacteria increase their numbers to accommodate the new load of nitrogenous waste. At the time you started, you may not have been aware, nor were you made aware, that there is a method to cycle tanks without fish. Amazingly enough, this is called fishless cycling. You use plain ammonia, that is, ammonia without detergents or other additives. You add enough to the aquarium to get a reading of 5 on your ammonia test kit. Each day you add enough more ammonia to bring the reading back up to 5 until all the ammonia is consumed in a day, but you will continue to add until you are ready to add fish. Once the nitrites have also reached 0, you can add fish. How many fish? Enough for a full load of fish, depending on the fish and the size of the aquarium. This will not reduce the time for a cycle to establish itself, but it will save you a lot of grief and possibly the problems associated when losing fish trying to cycle a tank that way. This is a simplified view of a subject that can get very complex very quickly. We do not need to know all the ins and outs of it, but one does need to have an understanding of what is called the Nitrogen or Biological Cycle in their tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sirreginaldoftheblade Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 3:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions with New Tank Hi Everyone, I have a few questions. I recently started an 85 g tank with approximaely 65 gallons of water in it. I intend to have a surface to the tank as well. Anyway, after 2 weeks I have some amazon sword plants in there and 2 albino corys and 3 neon tetra as I wait for the tank to cycle. I equipped the tank with the following: Substrate: Red Flourite Filter: Fluval U4 Underwater Filter using the spray coming out above the water surface to create a waterfall effect Thermometer: Fluval M300 300 watts Lighting: 2 Aqua-Glo T8 18,000 K bulbs Plant Nutrition: Seachem Flourish So, a couple of questions. If I plant my tank with Echinodorus plants, is the lighting system acceptable or do I need more/less. How many hours a day do the lights need to be on? Regarding plant fertilization...I heard the flourite is an acceptale substrate...is that with the Flourish enough or do I need other/additional plant food or a CO2 system? For those using the red flourite, obviously when you put it in the tank, the tank becomes red and clears over a couple of days...can I assume that eventual water changes (after tank cycling) will take care of that problems permamently? thanks, Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48768	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/19/2010
Subject: Re: Questions with New Tank

I use CO2 and I am equally interested in plants and fish:) CO2 simply requires a little understanding of water chemistry and a bit more vigilance. Plants love it, but it can harm fish if the aquarist is not educated about how to keep the levels safe for fish. Certain plants require CO2 to live in aquariums and others do not. Each plant needs to be researched to determine whether it can be grown without CO2. Planted Tank is an excellent forum for researching this type of information. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Jul 19, 2010, at 11:20 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > CO2 is generally not needed to be > added for good plant growth. It is generally used by those who are > more > interested in the plants and not the fish [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48769	From: caroline cormier	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Aqueon Aquarium

the rolling filter has stopped .... what does one do?  replace the wheel?    thank you.. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48770	From: EM	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Re: Aqueon Aquarium

Hi Caroline, Tough to say without more information. Depending on the filter, you might want to consider replacing the wheel, if that is indeed the problem. You can check out Aqueon filters and bio-wheel replacements (I don't know if they are a direct replacement) at this site: www.aqpumps.com   ________________________________ Elliott Manders ________________________________ From: caroline cormier <waves022@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 10:45:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Aqueon Aquarium   the rolling filter has stopped .... what does one do?  replace the wheel?    thank you.. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48771	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Re: Questions with New Tank

Hi Ken, First, CO2 is not needed with Echinodorus (swords) or for that matter most any other plants. I have maintained several tanks for 20 years with thriving swords, crypts, anubias, java fern, aponogeton, pennywort, wisteria, ceratopteris, frogbit, sagittaria and vallisneria without CO2 and with minimal lighting. Which brings me to your light. Two T8 tubes are perfectly adequate but you will need different tubes. The Aqua-Glo 18000K tubes are high in blue and red creating a purplish hue which I personally don't like, but more to the point the intensity is inadequate. I can't remember off the top of my head what the lumens rating is, but it is low. I would use Life-Glo 2 (if you want to stay in the Hagen series) or at less cost but equally good the ZooMed Ultra Sun. For even less cost, go to a hardware store and buy Phillips, Sylvannia or GE tubes called "daylight" or similar, with a kelvin rating around 6500K. I have used these too. These are all around 6500-6700K which is full spectrum and the closest to mid-day sun. They have high blue and red for the plants but balance it with green for true colour rendition of fish and plants. And the intensity is perfect. I have two such tubes over my 70g, 90g and 115g and the plants are growing like weeds. Mine are on for 11 hours a day; any longer and algae begins to increase. Light must be the limiting factor in plant photosynthesis. Which brings me to fertilizer. Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium is the best I have personally ever used, and I have tried several. Make sure it is the Flourish Comprehensive, there are several differnt products in the Flourish line, this is the only one you need. It requires very little, 2.5 ml which is 1/2 teaspoon treats 30 gallons, so in an 85g I would use 1 tsp per dose (you will have less than 85g actual water). You can use it once or twice a week; this depends upon your setup, but as Echinodorus are heavy feeders (and not withstanding the Flourite enriched substrate), you may find twice a week necessary. Partly depends upon the fish as your CO2 comes from the fish and biological processes. On CO2, you would be amazed how much there is just from the fish and such. And a word on cycling; plant the tank and you will not have a cycle period. If the tank is well planted, fish can be added the first day (with the plants or after) and you will not detect ammonia or nitrite. After a couple days you may or may not see nitrate, depending upon the extent of the plants. Plants need nitrogen as a macro-nutrient, and they prefer to obtain this as ammonium. The ammonia produced by fish, etc. will change to ammonium automatically in acidic water and plants grab it; in basic water the plants have the ability to use the ammonia and convert it via the cells in the leaves to ammonium and then assimilate this as their nitrogen. They are so good at doing this, the nitrosomonas bacteria cannot compete, which is why the bacteria level in planted tanks is very low. Nitrates are often at zero or 5, always below 10ppm in well-planted tanks. I have set up tanks for years using plants and never had cycles. I have never messed with ammonia or whatever. Hope this helps. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sirreginaldoftheblade" <Iksnip@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I have a few questions. I recently started an 85 g tank with approximaely 65 gallons of water in it. I intend to have a surface to the tank as well. Anyway, after 2 weeks I have some amazon sword plants in there and 2 albino corys and 3 neon tetra as I wait for the tank to cycle. I equipped the tank with the following: > > Substrate: Red Flourite > Filter: Fluval U4 Underwater Filter using the spray coming out above the water surface to create a waterfall effect > Thermometer: Fluval M300 300 watts > Lighting: 2 Aqua-Glo T8 18,000 K bulbs > Plant Nutrition: Seachem Flourish > > So, a couple of questions. If I plant my tank with Echinodorus plants, is the lighting system acceptable or do I need more/less. How many hours a day do the lights need to be on? > > Regarding plant fertilization...I heard the flourite is an acceptale substrate...is that with the Flourish enough or do I need other/additional plant food or a CO2 system? > > For those using the red flourite, obviously when you put it in the tank, the tank becomes red and clears over a couple of days...can I assume that eventual water changes (after tank cycling) will take care of that problems permamently? > > thanks, > > Ken >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48772	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Re: Aqueon Aquarium

Clean the filter. You may need to change the pad. Take the pump apart and clean any hair and whatever off of the thingy inside it. Make sure water is flowing over the wheel. Make sure nothing is obstructing the wheel from turning. Incidentally, I keep extra filter media in the filter, so that when I have to change a pad I don't remove the aquarium's biological filtering capacity with it! Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "caroline cormier" <waves022@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Aqueon Aquarium the rolling filter has stopped .... what does one do? replace the wheel? thank you.. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48773	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Beginner Planted Tank ( was - Re: Questions with New Tank)

Hi Ken, I am putting most of the reference links at the top so they are less likely to get lost in amongst my ramblings - download the first PDF, it is a brief explanation of Lighting, also ther are several items in the Groups Files section that will help with CO@ & Lighting -> http://www.hagen.com/pdf/aquatic/GLO-Lighting-Guide.pdf http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/%20Planted%20Tank%20Info/ http://watershed3.tripod.com/lighting.html http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=54540 "...using the spray coming out above the water surface to create a waterfall effect..." If I am understanding this correctly, the surface agitation caused by the "waterfall effect" will cause the CO2 to leave the aquarium faster - which is great at night when there is no light, but bad during the "Day" (when lights are on) "...> Lighting: 2 Aqua-Glo T8 18,000 K bulbs.." As far as lighting - I highly recommend you use a timer, set it for 12 hours on/12 off, for example - mine (built into the surge protector) is set to go on @ 7AM & off @ 7PM Full Spectrum is the popular choice for growing plants, usually around 6,500 degrees Kelvin is best, however I've used anywhere from 5,000K - 10,000K with mixed results. There are Compact Fluorescent combo bulbs that mix 2 different color temperatures into a bulb, I've used the ones that have a pink tint for helping bring out the true color of the fish and 6500K for the plants. You did not mention the Length or Watts of the bulbs, not sure if they are 18"/15w, but if so not a lot will grow. Watts is a bad, but relative, measurement for lighting especially for a planted tank - that is because watts is a measure of consumption which is relative to the efficiency of the type of bulb and not a description of its output such as LUX or LUMENS. General rule of thumb on average is 3 watts per gallon, that's a generic average and depends on various factors such as distance from the water surface, tank depth, lighting type, i.e. T-5 (HO or VHO are the best IMHO) or Metal Halide, plant species (for example - some moss and Ferns will grow ok in lower light say 1.5 w/g, however in a small 10 gal tank 10 - 15 watts likely will not be enough). So, for example only - 85 gallons times 3w/g = 255 watts of light you could use four 55 - 65 watt Compact Fluorescent or HO T-5 bulbs (VHO is closer to 80watts/bulb = more light in less space) , that is what I have been using on my 55g planted tank. 4 bulbs x 55 watts each, divided by 85 gallons ~ 2.5 w/g 4 x 65 ~ 3 w/g with compact florescent you could have up to 6 different color temperatures in only 4 bulbs by using 2 different combos and 2 "solid" bulbs. Currently I have three 6500K and one "Pink" in my T-5 fixture, they are VHO bulbs, but the Ballast is HO only. It can get confusing. "...some amazon sword plants in there..." Just curious how many? 2 is too many for my 55g as they quickly become overgrown and sprout 2 - 3 dozen new plants each. "... the Flourish enough or do I need other/additional plant food or a CO2 system?" Flourish is a good general fert except that it is LIQUID. DRY is better. Seachem also makes Root Tabs and Excel, both of which I use and highly recommend. "... red flourite, obviously when you put it in the tank, the tank becomes red and clears over a couple of days...can I assume that eventual water changes (after tank cycling) will take care of that problems permamently?" I have recently purchased my first bag of Red Fluorite, mostly out of curiosity as I have already been using Eco-Complete. I am lazy and will probably never buy the dry substrate again. It is still in the Holding tank with a thin layer of silt on top, even after being thoroughly rinsed for a couple hours (I used the rinse water for the garden as I'm assuming it too is Iron rich as it was muddy looking). You will be better off Vacuuming the gravel to rid yourself of the cloudiness, as opposed to simply doing water changes by taking water from the Top of the Aquarium. As far as "...permanently?", only time will tell. It might be helpful to visit a local Planted Tank or General Fish/Aquarium Society/Club in your area. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/links/Clubs__Societys___As_001071357150/Illinois_001111051309/ Hope that help, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "sirreginaldoftheblade" <Iksnip@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I have a few questions. I recently started an 85 g tank with approximaely 65 gallons of water in it. I intend to have a surface to the tank as well. Anyway, after 2 weeks I have some amazon sword plants in there and 2 albino corys and 3 neon tetra as I wait for the tank to cycle. I equipped the tank with the following: > > Substrate: Red Flourite > Filter: Fluval U4 Underwater Filter using the spray coming out above the water surface to create a waterfall effect > Thermometer: Fluval M300 300 watts > Lighting: 2 Aqua-Glo T8 18,000 K bulbs > Plant Nutrition: Seachem Flourish > > So, a couple of questions. If I plant my tank with Echinodorus plants, is the lighting system acceptable or do I need more/less. How many hours a day do the lights need to be on? > > Regarding plant fertilization...I heard the flourite is an acceptale substrate...is that with the Flourish enough or do I need other/additional plant food or a CO2 system? > > For those using the red flourite, obviously when you put it in the tank, the tank becomes red and clears over a couple of days...can I assume that eventual water changes (after tank cycling) will take care of that problems permamently? > > thanks, > > Ken >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48774	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2010
Subject: Re: Aqueon Aquarium

Rarely if ever do biowheels need to be replaced. Check to see if you have an adequate water flow to turn the wheel. If so check to make sure both bearings are in place. If one is missing it will slow or stop. If both are missing it stops. Check to see if hair or plant material has bound the wheel in the bearing area. You can always remove the wheel and wait for it to drain the water out for a minute. If there is stuff still in the wheel try gently sloshing it in the tank water to see if the mystery stuff within the wheel comes out. I have been running biowheels for years and have never had to replace one. -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: EM <manderstsi@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2010 9:30 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aqueon Aquarium Hi Caroline, Tough to say without more information. Depending on the filter, you might want to consider replacing the wheel, if that is indeed the problem. You can check out Aqueon filters and bio-wheel replacements (I don't know if they are a direct replacement) at this site: www.aqpumps.com ________________________________ Elliott Manders ________________________________ From: caroline cormier <waves022@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 10:45:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Aqueon Aquarium the rolling filter has stopped .... what does one do? replace the wheel? thank you.. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48775	From: Noura	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Need a buttom feeder

Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48776	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

Might the the size of the tank in general, mbuna are less aggressive in a 48" tank assuming you don't have the extra aggressive ones like kenyi and auratus. Usually they go for the eyes on plecos. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:47 AM To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48777	From: joaniee2003@yahoo.com	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Online Supplies?

I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for supplies. At this present time I am looking for water testing kits. Thanks Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48778	From: EM	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

Joanie, I've been in touch with www.aqpumps.com, and they tell me that they will have about 100 test kits and reagents on the site by this afternoon.   ________________________________ Elliott ________________________________ From: "joaniee2003@..." <joaniee2003@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 22, 2010 9:26:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies?   I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for supplies. At this present time I am looking for water testing kits. Thanks Joanie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48779	From: EM	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

Hi Joanie, Try www.aqpumps.com. I don't know if they have�test kits, but they do have lots of water conditioners, additives,�remedies, etc. � ________________________________ Elliott ________________________________ From: "joaniee2003@..." <joaniee2003@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 22, 2010 9:26:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies? � I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for supplies. At this present time I am looking for water testing kits. Thanks Joanie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48780	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

You can get a good master test kit from walmart.com and have it shipped to your local walmart for free to pickup. check out the API master test kit on their site and see if it's what you were looking for. Amber EM wrote: > > > Hi Joanie, > > Try www.aqpumps.com. I don't know if they have�test kits, but they do > have lots > of water conditioners, additives,�remedies, etc. > � > ________________________________ > > Elliott > > ________________________________ > From: "joaniee2003@... <mailto:joaniee2003%40yahoo.com>" > <joaniee2003@... <mailto:joaniee2003%40yahoo.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, July 22, 2010 9:26:06 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies? > > � > I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. > > I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for > supplies. At > this present time I am looking for water testing kits. > > Thanks > Joanie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48781	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

Joanie, I like Doctors Foster and Smith at: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/pr/c/3578?ref=4032&subref=AA&mkwid=SIEfu5YvJ|pcrid|4166649426&cmpid=PPC-_-G-_-4032 They have about anything you can think of, their service is great and finally, they don't kill you with shipping, something others do. After offering you a cheaper price, you find the shipping outta sight! Bill --- On Thu, 7/22/10, joaniee2003@... <joaniee2003@...> wrote: > From: joaniee2003@... <joaniee2003@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 9:26 AM > I checked the links page but there > were so many to choose from. > > I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online > store for supplies. At this present time I am looking for > water testing kits. > > Thanks > Joanie > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48782	From: EM	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

Joanie, I just checked www.aqpumps.com/testkits and there are 95 new items in the category.   ________________________________ Elliott ________________________________ From: "joaniee2003@..." <joaniee2003@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, July 22, 2010 9:26:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies?   I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for supplies. At this present time I am looking for water testing kits. Thanks Joanie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48783	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

Walmart sells API test kits? That probably is a good deal! There's also Petsmart. Petco tends to be more expensive. Though compare their in store prices and their online prices, because atleast at times their prices are discounted to allow for the shipping charge. Yours, Villandra From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies? > You can get a good master test kit from walmart.com and have it shipped > to your local walmart for free to pickup. > check out the API master test kit on their site and see if it's what you > were looking for. > > Amber > > EM wrote: >> >> >> Hi Joanie, >> >> Try www.aqpumps.com. I don't know if they have�test kits, but they do >> have lots >> of water conditioners, additives,�remedies, etc. >> � >> ________________________________ >> >> Elliott >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "joaniee2003@... <mailto:joaniee2003%40yahoo.com>" >> <joaniee2003@... <mailto:joaniee2003%40yahoo.com>> >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Thu, July 22, 2010 9:26:06 AM >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies? >> >> � >> I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. >> >> I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for >> supplies. At >> this present time I am looking for water testing kits. >> >> Thanks >> Joanie >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48784	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

That would be Drs Foster and Smith, Marineland, and one or two others. Many things can be bought just as well from discount places. What you have to look out for is the shipping charges. They'll get you on those. Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: <joaniee2003@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:26 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies? I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for supplies. At this present time I am looking for water testing kits. Thanks Joanie ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48785	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

https://www.customaquatic.com Left Side under Categories click on Test Kits https://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/ctg/~ctg=s_tk --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, joaniee2003@... wrote: > > I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. > > I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for supplies. At this present time I am looking for water testing kits. > > Thanks > Joanie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48786	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

I do a lot of shopping for stuff related to my work. I use www.froogle.com to look for products. If available, the vendors are rated by up to 6 stars by those who have used them. This would give you an idea of how reliable they are. I also use www.pricegrabber.com. This site is a bit more hit or miss as far as judging how reliable the vendor may be. When I visit the site, I look for a phone number, e-mail addresses and a physical location to be present. Most have the first two. Those that do not list an address are immediately ruled out. I feel the physical address is very indicative of the trustworthiness of a company. The lowest price is not always the best choice. Also pay attention to shipping charges. They can turn what looks to be a good deal into a so-so deal. (Not all of us are as fortunate as Amber, whose company gives her a sizable discount on shipping, if she can use her account for the shipping.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joaniee2003@... Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies? I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for supplies. At this present time I am looking for water testing kits. Thanks Joanie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48787	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/22/2010
Subject: Re: Online Supplies?

I wait for free shipping deals and then price my big order with four vendors and buy from the cheapest: Drs. Foster & Smith Big Al's That Fish Place Pet Solutions I think most often Big Al's or That Fish Place are the winners. I also buy some meds and food in large quantities. Like 5 pound buckets of New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula. When I run out only certain vendors carry the sizes I want. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies? I do a lot of shopping for stuff related to my work. I use www.froogle.com to look for products. If available, the vendors are rated by up to 6 stars by those who have used them. This would give you an idea of how reliable they are. I also use www.pricegrabber.com. This site is a bit more hit or miss as far as judging how reliable the vendor may be. When I visit the site, I look for a phone number, e-mail addresses and a physical location to be present. Most have the first two. Those that do not list an address are immediately ruled out. I feel the physical address is very indicative of the trustworthiness of a company. The lowest price is not always the best choice. Also pay attention to shipping charges. They can turn what looks to be a good deal into a so-so deal. (Not all of us are as fortunate as Amber, whose company gives her a sizable discount on shipping, if she can use her account for the shipping.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of joaniee2003@... <mailto:joaniee2003%40yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:26 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Online Supplies? I checked the links page but there were so many to choose from. I am looking for a reasonably priced yet reputable online store for supplies. At this present time I am looking for water testing kits. Thanks Joanie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48788	From: caroline cormier	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: bio wheel

again..anyone out there .... my bio wheel has stopped..marineland filter.. do I go and buy another filter. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48789	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: bio wheel

No. Do not replace your biowheel. Did you get the other replies on how to diagnose the problem? Did you try any of the steps people mentioned to address the problem? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: caroline cormier <waves022@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul 23, 2010 7:50 am Subject: [AquaticLife] bio wheel again..anyone out there .... my bio wheel has stopped..marineland filter.. do I go and buy another filter. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48790	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Moderators

Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48791	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

As far as I know they are Lainey but I haven't heard from ANYBODY lately! I suppose everyone is either getting too much sun or has already had enough (like me) and is busy looking for a cool place to rest! I'm here too, Bill --- On Fri, 7/23/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Moderators > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 9:40 PM > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on > this group? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48792	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

I second that Bill. I was in Mexico for a week and now home, and it is hot here too :) -Mike (another Moderator) -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul 23, 2010 7:30 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Moderators As far as I know they are Lainey but I haven't heard from ANYBODY lately! I suppose everyone is either getting too much sun or has already had enough (like me) and is busy looking for a cool place to rest! I'm here too, Bill --- On Fri, 7/23/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Moderators > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 9:40 PM > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on > this group? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48793	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

I'm still here, I'm just working 12+ hours a day and come home exhausted, so I haven't been posting much lately, but I have been reading posts. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48794	From: harry perry	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

As far as I know they are still here. Probably vacations etc. Harry, a moderator --- On Fri, 7/23/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Moderators To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 9:40 PM   Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48795	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators/To Beverly and all

Thank You Harry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > There are 9 moderators and one owner of this group. My name is Harry I'm one of the moderators. I don't know the names of all the moderators. Just the owner. That's all I need to know. It is not a secret or a "conspiracy" it's simply a non-issue. Moderators are volunteers. They have regular jobs and are taking care of families and paying bills just like everyone else. It takes time to run a group this big. You would not believe the crap we see. Some moderators might not want to be known maybe they just want to do their job and try to keep the group running smoothly. It might be just a matter of available time. > > We are in touch with the owner on a regular basis and we have made some changes to insure the disruptions of the past don't happen again. > > Will there be slip ups?. Probably, since we are all human > > If anyone does have a concern the proper avenue is to send your concern to > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com by sending your message here it will reach all 9 moderators and the owner. > > In the future posts to the group voicing a complaint will be deleted because of the disruption it causes and because you have an open avenue all the way to the top. > > There are over 2000 members here. It is virtually impossible to please everyone but we all will do our best to make this group a pleasant experience. > > Harry, a moderator.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48796	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

I sent a message on this about an hour ago (about 11:00PM EDT) from the Yahoo Group site, but haven't seen it yet (I've seen some Yahoo delays as long as a week!), So, anyway, I'm posting this as an email, even though these messages don't include the previous one. I'm hoping my post will appear soon, to supply you with an explanation. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48797	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Thank You --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I'm still here, I'm just working 12+ hours a day and come home > exhausted, so I haven't been posting much lately, but I have been > reading posts. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48798	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/23/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Lainey, As you can see, both Ray and Amber have posted here. Lenny? Well, I do not know. However, I did see Lenny post to another list (nothing to do with fish) yesterday. I had not seen him there for a while also. Perhaps he'll pop in here later. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Moderators Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48799	From: Dax Gorham	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: bio wheel

Gee Whiz....I wish I could help, but I dont know that answer to that quesion about your bio wheel.....can anyone help this person? Daniel John Gorham daxgor@... --- On Fri, 7/23/10, caroline cormier <waves022@...> wrote: From: caroline cormier <waves022@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] bio wheel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 9:50 AM   again..anyone out there .... my bio wheel has stopped..marineland filter.. do I go and buy another filter. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48800	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: bio wheel

Caroline, I don't know a lot about bio-wheel filters (I don't use them), or I would have posted sooner. I do recall Lenny advising that when bio-wheels stop, you have to "fool" with them, i.e., clean off any gunk that may have accumulated that may have filled in any space between the wheel and the filter body that may now be preventing the wheel from turning freely. He stated that it's not necessary to have to replace the bio-wheel (at least not usually). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, caroline cormier <waves022@...> wrote: > > again..anyone out there .... my bio wheel has stopped..marineland filter.. do I > go and buy another filter. caroline > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48801	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Lainey, I noticed my post to Caroline a few minutes ago just went through, so I'll take the chance and be "daring" in trying to post this one. As Yahoogroup posts can occassionally take up to a week before they appear (or may never be seen < g >), I thought I'd try to re-write this lost one rather than have you wait for the explanation I alluded to last night, that we all may have forgotten about by the time we see it. As I first started out with, I can't speak for the others, but I'd like to let you know I'm still here. I did see Amber post, so we know she's still here, and like \\Steve// mentioned, Lenny may pop in here later, as he saw him post on another group. I was also wondering; Why do you ask? I assume you were still here, before I saw your post, although it's been a little while. If it's any consolation (LOL), I'm always here behind the scenes, reading any messages that are being posted, and either approving or denying any messages that are being sent by the moderating team for possible posting (or not). Depending on how much time I have during the day, just as this factor also affects the other moderators, I may be up on the Group Site as often as 6 or 8 times a day, every day, as I seldom let a day go by without overseeing things here. It's probably the same for the rest of the moderators, overseeing things as time permits. I will add that with this heat (hottest July on record in the Northeast), that it's been pretty slow lately and understandably so. When I see someone answer a question fully and correctly, I see no need for me to add to it, in making any additional remarks redundant or repetitive. Whenever I see someone answer a question incorrectly, you can be sure I'll post, with a correction to it, as I won't permit the members receiving false or misleading information. Otherwise, when I do post, it will be because no one else has come forth with an answer to the question being asked. I see no need for me to post otherwise, if it appears to me that everything is under control, and you can be assured I'm on top of things every day. Many thanks for asking, and for your concern. Hope all is well with you. Ray In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48802	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: bio wheel

We've collectively told Caroline everything that can really be said on the subject. There's no more help that can be provided. Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dax Gorham" <daxgor@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] bio wheel Gee Whiz....I wish I could help, but I dont know that answer to that quesion about your bio wheel.....can anyone help this person? Daniel John Gorham daxgor@... --- On Fri, 7/23/10, caroline cormier <waves022@...> wrote: From: caroline cormier <waves022@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] bio wheel To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 9:50 AM again..anyone out there .... my bio wheel has stopped..marineland filter.. do I go and buy another filter. caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48803	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

I can't speak for others, but I'm still here. I would assume that everyone else is too. Why do you ask? I haven't seen you post lately, but have assumed you haven't left us. I'm up on this group overseeing it several times a day (every few hours), every day, behind the scenes, approving or denying messages of moderated members for posting (or not) -- and reading the context of every messages being posted. If I see a posted question that cannot be or hasn't been answered by anyone else, I'll make sure to answer it, although most often someone supplies an (adequate) answer. If I see a question answered erroneously, you can bet I'll post a correction right away. When you don't see my posts, you can be assured that the answer given by someone else was correct. When I see someone answering with correct information and covering the subject thoroughly, I see no need to add to it in making the matter redundant or repetitive, but my silence is their approval. Thanks for asking though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48804	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Giant fishes to appear in TV series

In the Comment section, it is mentioned that the first episode is to be aired 7/24 at 10PM. I presume that is Eastern Time. Check your local listings. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3059&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July_23_2010&utm_term=Giant_fishes_to_appear_in_TV_series&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/247ubgc Giant fishes to appear in TV series Copyright (c) Zeb Hogan Giant fishes, including those said to have eaten dogs and cats, are to appear in a new television series on the National Geographic Channel. The Monster Fish series, which is hosted by Zeb Hogan, the biologist working on the National Geographic Society and World Wildlife Fund MegaFishes project, offers a mix of "science, adventure and exploration". Among the highlights are expeditions up the Amazon and the remote Rio Roosevelt, a 400-mile river in western Brazil, which is relatively unexplored by modern biologists. Giant fishes The programme features introduced Asian carp, the Alligator gar, Wels, giant 600-pound Siamese carp, 10 foot long Mekong catfish and giant freshwater stingrays. "Four of the shows focus on invasive species issues, where the giant fish are taking over new habitats", said Hogan. "This series of shows focuses heavily on invasive-species issues, a critically important topic for the health of aquatic ecosystems like Lake Tahoe, the Mississippi River, and the Great Lakes. "I'm alarmed by what I've learned. These carp put on several pounds each year, a phenomenal growth rate. They quickly outgrow any predators but humans. Native fish don't stand a chance against them; they can grow to almost 100 pounds." MegaFishes Project The MegaFishes Project is described as the world's first attempt to document and protect the planet's freshwater giants. Many of the world's largest fish species, including the Giant Mekong catfish, Pangasius gigas, the Giant Mekong stingray, Himantura chaophraya, as well as sturgeons and arapaima are "disappearing at an alarming rate." Published: Matt Clarke Thursday 22 July 2010, 11:44 am \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48805	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: The world's most disgusting aquatic creatures

Check the link for pictures to go along with the text. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3060&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July_23_2010&utm_term=The_worlds_most_disgusting_aquatic_creatures&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/26q6cvv The world's most disgusting aquatic creatures Copyright (c) http://en.wikipedia.org, Creative Commons Some eat fish tongues, others castrate their hosts. Are parasitic isopods the world's most disgusting aquatic creatures, asks Matt Clarke. The photograph above isn't a fake. This is a real creature known as Bathynomus giganteus, or the Giant isopod. Although it looks like a fantasy creature from a sci-fi film, this is actually a genuine organism that lives in the depths of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans and was first discovered off the Gulf of Mexico in 1879. It's believed to be a scavenger that feeds upon dead whales and squid in the pitch black darkness of the bathypelagic zone, some 2140m/7020ft below the water surface. If you fancy seeing them for real, some giant ispods went on display at the Sea Life Centre at Blackpool for the first time in Britain last year. It's quite grotesque to look at, but it's not nearly as disgusting as some of its other cousins in the Order Isopoda. Take the Tongue-eating louse, Cymothoa exigua, for example. This member of the isopod family Cymothoidae (pictured above) is a parasite and attaches itself to the tongue of fishes, usually snappers, holds on with its claws and drinks blood from the artery that lies within the tongue. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48806	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Hi Lainey, Well I see my "lost" post from 11:00PM EDT last night finally arrived here at 1:22PM EDT this afternoon. That's ONLY 14 plus hours after it was posted (LOL). I guess that's not too bad considering I've seen Yahoo posts being delayed a number of times up to a week. Makes you wonder where they went to and why. Not knowing when, or even if, this message would ever have been posted, is the reason why I sent my similar message this morning around 8:30 AM (and the reason I mentioned last night that I sent an earlier message). Had I not done so would have looked as though I was ignoring you, which as you see I wasn't. How do you figure this Yahoo and the cyberspace they don't mind relegating our messages to, sometimes for days on end? Take care, and thanks again for your concern for all of us. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > I can't speak for others, but I'm still here. I would assume that everyone else is too. Why do you ask? I haven't seen you post lately, but have assumed you haven't left us. I'm up on this group overseeing it several times a day (every few hours), every day, behind the scenes, approving or denying messages of moderated members for posting (or not) -- and reading the context of every messages being posted. > > If I see a posted question that cannot be or hasn't been answered by anyone else, I'll make sure to answer it, although most often someone supplies an (adequate) answer. If I see a question answered erroneously, you can bet I'll post a correction right away. When you don't see my posts, you can be assured that the answer given by someone else was correct. When I see someone answering with correct information and covering the subject thoroughly, I see no need to add to it in making the matter redundant or repetitive, but my silence is their approval. Thanks for asking though. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48807	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Ray, It would probably bore most of the people here to go into all the details, but here is what happened to your message: (Times shown are GMT). X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2010 17:22:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2010 17:22:02 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jul 2010 03:03:52 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jul 2010 03:03:52 -0000 You will need to read from the bottom of the above block up. It appears that you wrote the message online with Yahoo (not shown) and when you clicked on send, it was immediately received by a server called t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com, then immediately passed along to a server called n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com. The message must have liked the company it found there because it sat on that server for approximately 14 hours and 19 minutes at which time it was passed along to the server known as mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com, and the rest of the delivery route was covered in a normal amount of time (three more servers in 0.01second. From the last Yahoo server, it was sent to mine and delivered to my mailbox in about 0.03 second (that part of the route is not shown). FWIW, you seem to be lucky Ray, only having a maximum delay of 1 week. I've had messages delayed for up to two weeks, and tracking the message through the headers shows a delay at many of the servers it is routed through. I suspect that a queue may get stuck, and the amount of time it takes for the message to leave that server depends on when the problem is discovered and the queue restarted, and the number of messages piled up in the queue before yours. One must remember that while e-mail works fantastically well 99% of the time, delivery of e-mail is essentially a best effort endeavor. Each time you send an e-mail, there is no guarantee that it will reach the recipient(s) as you intend. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 4:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moderators Hi Lainey, Well I see my "lost" post from 11:00PM EDT last night finally arrived here at 1:22PM EDT this afternoon. That's ONLY 14 plus hours after it was posted (LOL). I guess that's not too bad considering I've seen Yahoo posts being delayed a number of times up to a week. Makes you wonder where they went to and why. Not knowing when, or even if, this message would ever have been posted, is the reason why I sent my similar message this morning around 8:30 AM (and the reason I mentioned last night that I sent an earlier message). Had I not done so would have looked as though I was ignoring you, which as you see I wasn't. How do you figure this Yahoo and the cyberspace they don't mind relegating our messages to, sometimes for days on end? Take care, and thanks again for your concern for all of us. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > I can't speak for others, but I'm still here. I would assume that everyone else is too. Why do you ask? I haven't seen you post lately, but have assumed you haven't left us. I'm up on this group overseeing it several times a day (every few hours), every day, behind the scenes, approving or denying messages of moderated members for posting (or not) -- and reading the context of every messages being posted. > > If I see a posted question that cannot be or hasn't been answered by anyone else, I'll make sure to answer it, although most often someone supplies an (adequate) answer. If I see a question answered erroneously, you can bet I'll post a correction right away. When you don't see my posts, you can be assured that the answer given by someone else was correct. When I see someone answering with correct information and covering the subject thoroughly, I see no need to add to it in making the matter redundant or repetitive, but my silence is their approval. Thanks for asking though. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48808	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

\\Steve//, Simply unbelieveable! Thanks for cluing me in on this as I had no idea. This looks like the Navaho Code that was used by the Indians back in WW II. It's even stranger that you should receive it as all jumbled, yet when it was received back here in my In Box it was perfectly fine. That's another part I don't understand. I take it that you referring ONLY to my messages posted last night around 11:00 PM and NOT the one I posted this afternoon, dated below here as being sent on July 24, 2010 @ 4:29 PM -- which is dated in the archives as 7:40 PM -- and which is the time that I received this one -- 3 hours and 11 minutes after I sent it. Another delay which I don't understand. I trust that the post I sent this morning around 8:30 AM arrived intact(?). Yeah, at least the ones that I saw as being posted a week or so after I sent them arrived in one legible piece. This one is really screwy! By the looks of it, I can't even count on this one arriving unscathed. Oh, one other thing, although that message you shown me from last night was all jumbled as you received it, did you get the same one in a readable form as I sent it along with the one I sent at 4:29 PM (7:40 PM, by Yahoogroup time)? Many thanks, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > It would probably bore most of the people here to go into all the details, > but here is what happened to your message: > > (Times shown are GMT). > > X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) > by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2010 17:22:02 -0000 > X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) > (66.163.168.152) > by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2010 17:22:02 -0000 > X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with > NNFMP; 24 Jul 2010 03:03:52 -0000 > X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; > 24 Jul 2010 03:03:52 -0000 > > You will need to read from the bottom of the above block up. It appears that > you wrote the message online with Yahoo (not shown) and when you clicked on > send, it was immediately received by a server called > t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com, then immediately passed along to a server > called n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com. The message must have liked the > company it found there because it sat on that server for approximately 14 > hours and 19 minutes at which time it was passed along to the server known > as mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com, and the rest of the delivery route was covered in > a normal amount of time (three more servers in 0.01second. From the last > Yahoo server, it was sent to mine and delivered to my mailbox in about 0.03 > second (that part of the route is not shown). > > FWIW, you seem to be lucky Ray, only having a maximum delay of 1 week. I've > had messages delayed for up to two weeks, and tracking the message through > the headers shows a delay at many of the servers it is routed through. I > suspect that a queue may get stuck, and the amount of time it takes for the > message to leave that server depends on when the problem is discovered and > the queue restarted, and the number of messages piled up in the queue before > yours. > > One must remember that while e-mail works fantastically well 99% of the > time, delivery of e-mail is essentially a best effort endeavor. Each time > you send an e-mail, there is no guarantee that it will reach the > recipient(s) as you intend. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 4:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moderators > > Hi Lainey, Well I see my "lost" post from 11:00PM EDT last night finally > arrived here at 1:22PM EDT this afternoon. That's ONLY 14 plus hours after > it was posted (LOL). I guess that's not too bad considering I've seen Yahoo > posts being delayed a number of times up to a week. Makes you wonder where > they went to and why. Not knowing when, or even if, this message would ever > have been posted, is the reason why I sent my similar message this morning > around 8:30 AM (and the reason I mentioned last night that I sent an earlier > message). Had I not done so would have looked as though I was ignoring you, > which as you see I wasn't. How do you figure this Yahoo and the cyberspace > they don't mind relegating our messages to, sometimes for days on end? > Take care, and thanks again for your concern for all of us. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > I can't speak for others, but I'm still here. I would assume that > everyone else is too. Why do you ask? I haven't seen you post lately, but > have assumed you haven't left us. I'm up on this group overseeing it > several times a day (every few hours), every day, behind the scenes, > approving or denying messages of moderated members for posting (or not) -- > and reading the context of every messages being posted. > > > > If I see a posted question that cannot be or hasn't been answered by > anyone else, I'll make sure to answer it, although most often someone > supplies an (adequate) answer. If I see a question answered erroneously, > you can bet I'll post a correction right away. When you don't see my posts, > you can be assured that the answer given by someone else was correct. When > I see someone answering with correct information and covering the subject > thoroughly, I see no need to add to it in making the matter redundant or > repetitive, but my silence is their approval. Thanks for asking though. > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48809	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/24/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Ray, The messages you sent came through just fine. I was showing part of the headers, which most people never see, to illustrate what I was explaining. You are right, it does look like junk, but, in reality it is quite easy to understand. Let's take one line: X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jul 2010 03:03:52 -0000 X-Received is a variable. The rest of the line is what is stored in that variable. The contents tell us where the message came from ( [98.137.34.33] ) and by which server it was received. The next part tells us the server that received the message ( t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ) and the method by which it was received ( NNFMP ). The last part of this line is the date and time this happened. The -0000 is the time offset from Greenwich Mean Time, in this case it is GMT If Ester Time was being used, it would be -0400, meaning we would need to subtract 4 hours to produce ET. When you are reading a header like this, you need to read from the bottom up as each succeeding step in the transmission and receipt of the message is added to the top of the previous steps. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moderators \\Steve//, Simply unbelieveable! Thanks for cluing me in on this as I had no idea. This looks like the Navaho Code that was used by the Indians back in WW II. It's even stranger that you should receive it as all jumbled, yet when it was received back here in my In Box it was perfectly fine. That's another part I don't understand. I take it that you referring ONLY to my messages posted last night around 11:00 PM and NOT the one I posted this afternoon, dated below here as being sent on July 24, 2010 @ 4:29 PM -- which is dated in the archives as 7:40 PM -- and which is the time that I received this one -- 3 hours and 11 minutes after I sent it. Another delay which I don't understand. I trust that the post I sent this morning around 8:30 AM arrived intact(?). Yeah, at least the ones that I saw as being posted a week or so after I sent them arrived in one legible piece. This one is really screwy! By the looks of it, I can't even count on this one arriving unscathed. Oh, one other thing, although that message you shown me from last night was all jumbled as you received it, did you get the same one in a readable form as I sent it along with the one I sent at 4:29 PM (7:40 PM, by Yahoogroup time)? Many thanks, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > It would probably bore most of the people here to go into all the details, > but here is what happened to your message: > > (Times shown are GMT). > > X-Received: from unknown (66.196.94.105) > by m13.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2010 17:22:02 -0000 > X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) > (66.163.168.152) > by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2010 17:22:02 -0000 > X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with > NNFMP; 24 Jul 2010 03:03:52 -0000 > X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; > 24 Jul 2010 03:03:52 -0000 > > You will need to read from the bottom of the above block up. It appears that > you wrote the message online with Yahoo (not shown) and when you clicked on > send, it was immediately received by a server called > t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com, then immediately passed along to a server > called n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com. The message must have liked the > company it found there because it sat on that server for approximately 14 > hours and 19 minutes at which time it was passed along to the server known > as mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com, and the rest of the delivery route was covered in > a normal amount of time (three more servers in 0.01second. From the last > Yahoo server, it was sent to mine and delivered to my mailbox in about 0.03 > second (that part of the route is not shown). > > FWIW, you seem to be lucky Ray, only having a maximum delay of 1 week. I've > had messages delayed for up to two weeks, and tracking the message through > the headers shows a delay at many of the servers it is routed through. I > suspect that a queue may get stuck, and the amount of time it takes for the > message to leave that server depends on when the problem is discovered and > the queue restarted, and the number of messages piled up in the queue before > yours. > > One must remember that while e-mail works fantastically well 99% of the > time, delivery of e-mail is essentially a best effort endeavor. Each time > you send an e-mail, there is no guarantee that it will reach the > recipient(s) as you intend. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 4:29 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moderators > > Hi Lainey, Well I see my "lost" post from 11:00PM EDT last night finally > arrived here at 1:22PM EDT this afternoon. That's ONLY 14 plus hours after > it was posted (LOL). I guess that's not too bad considering I've seen Yahoo > posts being delayed a number of times up to a week. Makes you wonder where > they went to and why. Not knowing when, or even if, this message would ever > have been posted, is the reason why I sent my similar message this morning > around 8:30 AM (and the reason I mentioned last night that I sent an earlier > message). Had I not done so would have looked as though I was ignoring you, > which as you see I wasn't. How do you figure this Yahoo and the cyberspace > they don't mind relegating our messages to, sometimes for days on end? > Take care, and thanks again for your concern for all of us. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > I can't speak for others, but I'm still here. I would assume that > everyone else is too. Why do you ask? I haven't seen you post lately, but > have assumed you haven't left us. I'm up on this group overseeing it > several times a day (every few hours), every day, behind the scenes, > approving or denying messages of moderated members for posting (or not) -- > and reading the context of every messages being posted. > > > > If I see a posted question that cannot be or hasn't been answered by > anyone else, I'll make sure to answer it, although most often someone > supplies an (adequate) answer. If I see a question answered erroneously, > you can bet I'll post a correction right away. When you don't see my posts, > you can be assured that the answer given by someone else was correct. When > I see someone answering with correct information and covering the subject > thoroughly, I see no need to add to it in making the matter redundant or > repetitive, but my silence is their approval. Thanks for asking though. > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48810	From: Ray	Date: 7/25/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Lainey, I noticed my post to Caroline a few minutes ago just went through, so I'll take the chance and be "daring" in trying to post this one. As Yahoogroup posts can occassionally take up to a week before they appear (or may never be seen < g >), I thought I'd try to re-write this lost one rather than have you wait for the explanation I alluded to last night, that we all may have forgotten about by the time we see it. As I first started out with, I can't speak for the others, but I'd like to let you know I'm still here. I did see Amber post, so we know she's still here, and like \\Steve// mentioned, Lenny may pop in here later, as he saw him post on another group. I was also wondering; Why do you ask? I assume you were still here, before I saw your post, although it's been a little while. If it's any consolation (LOL), I'm always here behind the scenes, reading any messages that are being posted, and either approving or denying any messages that are being sent by the moderating team for possible posting (or not). Depending on how much time I have during the day, just as this factor also affects the other moderators, I may be up on the Group Site as often as 6 or 8 times a day, every day, as I seldom let a day go by without overseeing things here. It's probably the same for the rest of the moderators, overseeing things as time permits. I will add that with this heat (hottest July on record in the Northeast), that it's been pretty slow lately and understandably so. When I see someone answer a question fully and correctly, I see no need for me to add to it, in making any additional remarks redundant or repetitive. Whenever I see someone answer a question incorrectly, you can be sure I'll post, with a correction to it, as I won't permit the members receiving false or misleading information. Otherwise, when I do post, it will be because no one else has come forth with an answer to the question being asked. I see no need for me to post otherwise, if it appears to me that everything is under control, and you can be assured I'm on top of things every day. Many thanks for asking, and for your concern. Hope all is well with you. Ray In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Are Lenny, Amber and Ray still on this group? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48811	From: AquaticLife	Date: 7/25/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Thank You Steve --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I know a few of the moderators, but as I mentioned earlier, I have been > given to understand there are 9 all told. If they wish, they can > identify themselves, I'll not out them. Some already have identified > themselves as moderators. I have learned from experience in other lists > that if one is known to be a moderator, a disgruntled member may harass > for any real action or perceived slights through a personal address. The > anonymity of the Internet leads to this type of behavior. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48812	From: Larry	Date: 7/25/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Thanks for posting your reply Ray....I am also a moderator on other fish groups and agree with you....if everything is OK and correct why OVER moderate. I feel we all want the best for our fish and friends on these lists....keep up the good work. Larry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who are the moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are others? > > Thanks, > Beverly > > > Peace, please! > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48813	From: Larry	Date: 7/26/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Check the members list and the moderators are listed or have a crown by their name. Larry --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who are the moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are others? > > Thanks, > Beverly > > > Peace, please! > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48814	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/27/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

In many other groups I am a member of you can access this information, but not this one - there is no viewing of the member/moderator lists, at least not that I am able to find in the usual places on typical Yahoo Groups pages. There should be at least a moderators list available to the membership. JMHO, mere member that I am. Still love 75% of the discussions that go on here - entertaining and usually informative unless it gets OT/political, then I tune out :-) Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <l.nave@...> wrote: > > Check the members list and the moderators are listed or have a crown by their name. > Larry > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48815	From: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/27/2010
Subject: Moderators, Members List, Polls & Groups Labs Applications

AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com The nine moderators and group owner can all be contacted directly off-list by sending a message to the above email address that is also listed as "List owner" on every groups home page at the bottom under "Group Email Addresses" or by replying to a post in the forum (not in your email) by changing the selection in the drop down menu that gives three Reply-to options; 1) * All Members = the group (populated by default), 2) * Sender = the author of message you are replying to, or 3) * Group Owner = the Moderators. (options 2 & 3 are what is called "off-list" because it will not be seen in the group archives, some forums may refer to this as "Private Message" or "PM") The members list is not available in an effort to protect the members and moderators from spammers. There are 3 options available when creating a group ~ Management -> Group Settings -> Web Tools -> Members * Members (members view profiles; moderators can view profiles/change settings) * Moderators only (moderators can view profiles/change settings) * Off (no one can access the Member list) Not every group makes the Members list available, for example ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub ~ an older group of similar size, activity level and topic. there are a number of Polls, some on-going and others closed, that give an idea who the members & moderators are and what they are interested in ~ http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/polls There is a newer feature available to all groups on their homepage at the bottom of the left section called Groups Labs (Beta) * Applications In this group there are several Apps available for the members including: * People Map See where other group members live and share where you are from. But only share as much as you are comfortable with. & * Birthdays See a birthday list for your group members. & * Aquatic Life Group Profile Create an online "profile" that is just for this group. Please tell us; How long have you been interested in Aquatic Life? That is, approximately for how much time now have you been involved with the various aspects of the Aquarium hobby? What aspects of the hobby interest you the most? Is there a particular type of Aquatic Life that you like best? How many aquariums do you have running? What size and kind? Are you a LFS Owner or Employee? A Suppliers or Importer? Hope that Helps, Thank You --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cobra427lady" <clare@...> wrote: > > > > In many other groups I am a member of you can access this information, but not this one - there is no viewing of the member/moderator lists, at least not that I am able to find in the usual places on typical Yahoo Groups pages. There should be at least a moderators list available to the membership. > > JMHO, mere member that I am. Still love 75% of the discussions that go on here - entertaining and usually informative unless it gets OT/political, then I tune out :-) > > > Cheers, > Clare > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <l.nave@> wrote: > > > > Check the members list and the moderators are listed or have a crown by their name. > > Larry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48816	From: anil abraham	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

Hi,        Try Chinese algae eaters especially the Golden variant i had 2 of them in my tank full of malawi & crayfish the lasted. even the crayfish were killed by the cicilids especially during molting.   Regards Anil --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 1:16 PM   Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48817	From: ccdogpark@yahoo.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Exposing the entire members list to potential harvesting by spambots is a very bad idea in my opinion. And because the people running yahoo.Inc are a bunch of morons, there is no way to show everyone the moderators list without also showing everyone the members list ! Once spambots have the first half of email addreses they can use computer programs to quickly derive the second half by trial and error of the most popular 50 email services for the second half. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yahoo_group_of_groups/ It makes me crazy that this group that is supposed to be giving moderators advice has their members list exposed to harvesting, but I have given up arguing about how stupid this is with them. -------------------- I agree it is very useful to show people who the moderators are but the best ways to do that are: A) in the welcome message via this URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/settings?mode=12 B) create a file in the files section If you only have a couple of moderators then: you can do it in the description like this: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Maryland-Dogs/ or in the links section like this: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rabies-Information/links/YG_001277611209/ Some groups have the moderators listed in the message footers. In the groups I moderate, I frequently put Group Moderator in the signature of messsages I post but I tend to dominate the groups I moderate and only new members need to see this. Bill Zardus Camden County, NJ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dogpark-National-News/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ShelterFundraising/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rabies-Information/ One purpose of this news group is to track and respond to unusual news stories about the manner in which rabies laws are being interpreted, enforced and frequently abused by police and ACOs' across the US and Canada --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who are the moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are others? > > Thanks, > Beverly > > > Peace, please! > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48818	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Hi Bill,   I understand what you're saying here but I come away from all of this thinking "What's the big deal with the Moderators all of a sudden?   My opinion is we should all be thankful that they are there and helping manage the site as best and as their time warrants!  Who cares who they are and why?   If they want to be known they would simply introduce themselves by mail saying:  Hi everyone!  I'm Joe XYZ from Whocares, NY.  They don't. Why?  Obviously they wish to remain anonymous--------let us leave these good people to their privacy shall we?  After all, the group is for fish not Moderators and if they wanted their own group they would start one. For Moderators Only, of course! <g>   Just my thoughts   Bill --- On Wed, 7/28/10, ccdogpark@... <ccdogpark@...> wrote: From: ccdogpark@... <ccdogpark@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moderators To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 9:32 AM Exposing the entire members list to potential harvesting by spambots is a very bad idea in my opinion. And because the people running yahoo.Inc are a bunch of morons, there is no way to show everyone the moderators list without also showing everyone the members list ! Once spambots have the first half of email addreses they can use computer programs to quickly derive the second half by trial and error of the most popular 50 email services for the second half. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yahoo_group_of_groups/ It makes me crazy that this group that is supposed to be giving moderators advice has their members list exposed to harvesting, but I have given up arguing about how stupid this is with them. -------------------- I agree it is very useful to show people who the moderators are but the best ways to do that are: A) in the welcome message via this URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/settings?mode=12 B) create a file in the files section If you only have a couple of moderators then: you can do it in the description like this: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Maryland-Dogs/ or in the links section like this: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rabies-Information/links/YG_001277611209/ Some groups have the moderators listed in the message footers. In the groups I moderate, I frequently put Group Moderator in the signature of messsages I post but I tend to dominate the groups I moderate and only new members need to see this. Bill Zardus Camden County, NJ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dogpark-National-News/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ShelterFundraising/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rabies-Information/ One purpose of this news group is to track and respond to unusual news stories about the manner in which rabies laws are being interpreted, enforced and frequently abused by police and ACOs' across the US and Canada --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who are the moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are others? > > Thanks, > Beverly > > > Peace, please! > > >       ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48819	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators, Members List, Polls & Groups Labs Applications

Well, that clears that up - easy, peasy, lemon squeezie LOL I shall take a look at setting up a profile soon. Thanks for taking the time to reply, whoever you are :-) Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > The nine moderators and group owner can all be contacted directly off-list by sending a message to the above email address that is also listed as "List owner" on every groups home page at the bottom under "Group Email Addresses" > > or by replying to a post in the forum (not in your email) by changing the selection in the drop down menu that gives three Reply-to options; > > 1) * All Members = the group (populated by default), > 2) * Sender = the author of message you are replying to, or > 3) * Group Owner = the Moderators. > > (options 2 & 3 are what is called "off-list" because it will not be seen in the group archives, some forums may refer to this as "Private Message" or "PM") > > > > The members list is not available in an effort to protect the members and moderators from spammers. > > > > There are 3 options available when creating a group ~ > > > Management -> Group Settings -> Web Tools -> Members > > * Members (members view profiles; moderators can view profiles/change settings) > * Moderators only (moderators can view profiles/change settings) > * Off (no one can access the Member list) > > > Not every group makes the Members list available, > for example ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub ~ > an older group of similar size, activity level and topic. > > > > there are a number of Polls, some on-going and others closed, that give an idea who the members & moderators are and what they are interested in ~ > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/polls > > > > There is a newer feature available to all groups on their homepage at the bottom of the left section called > > Groups Labs (Beta) > * Applications > > > > In this group there are several Apps available for the members including: > > * People Map > > See where other group members live and share where you are from. But only share as much as you are comfortable with. > > & > > * Birthdays > > See a birthday list for your group members. > > & > > * Aquatic Life Group Profile > > Create an online "profile" that is just for this group. > > Please tell us; > > How long have you been interested in Aquatic Life? > That is, approximately for how much time now have you been involved with the various aspects of the Aquarium hobby? > > What aspects of the hobby interest you the most? Is there a particular type of Aquatic Life that you like best? > > How many aquariums do you have running? > What size and kind? > > Are you a LFS Owner or Employee? A Suppliers or Importer? > > > > Hope that Helps, > Thank You > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cobra427lady" <clare@> wrote: > > > > > > > > In many other groups I am a member of you can access this information, but not this one - there is no viewing of the member/moderator lists, at least not that I am able to find in the usual places on typical Yahoo Groups pages. There should be at least a moderators list available to the membership. > > > > JMHO, mere member that I am. Still love 75% of the discussions that go on here - entertaining and usually informative unless it gets OT/political, then I tune out :-) > > > > > > Cheers, > > Clare > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <l.nave@> wrote: > > > > > > Check the members list and the moderators are listed or have a crown by their name. > > > Larry >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48820	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators, Members List, Polls & Groups Labs Applications

Yes Clare, I found myself asking that same question?   "Who was that Masked Man"?    Bill --- On Wed, 7/28/10, cobra427lady <clare@...> wrote: From: cobra427lady <clare@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moderators, Members List, Polls & Groups Labs Applications To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:15 AM Well, that clears that up - easy, peasy, lemon squeezie LOL   I shall take a look at setting up a profile soon. Thanks for taking the time to reply, whoever you are :-) Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com wrote: > >     AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > The nine moderators and group owner can all be contacted directly off-list by sending a message to the above email address that is also listed as "List owner" on every groups home page at the bottom under "Group Email Addresses" > > or by replying to a post in the forum (not in your email) by changing the selection in the drop down menu that gives three Reply-to options; > > 1) * All Members = the group (populated by default), > 2) * Sender = the author of message you are replying to, or > 3) * Group Owner = the Moderators. > > (options 2 & 3 are what is called "off-list" because it will not be seen in the group archives, some forums may refer to this as "Private Message" or "PM") > > > > The members list is not available in an effort to protect the members and moderators from spammers. > > > > There are 3 options available when creating a group ~ > > > Management -> Group Settings -> Web Tools -> Members > >     * Members (members view profiles; moderators can view profiles/change settings) >     * Moderators only (moderators can view profiles/change settings) >     * Off (no one can access the Member list) > > >  Not every group makes the Members list available, > for example ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub ~ > an older group of similar size, activity level and topic. > > > > there are a number of Polls, some on-going and others closed, that give an idea who the members & moderators are and what they are interested in ~ > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/polls > > > > There is a newer feature available to all groups on their homepage at the bottom of the left section called > > Groups Labs (Beta) >     * Applications > > > > In this group there are several Apps available for the members including: > > * People Map > > See where other group members live and share where you are from. But only share as much as you are comfortable with. > > & > > * Birthdays > > See a birthday list for your group members. > > & > > * Aquatic Life Group Profile > > Create an online "profile" that is just for this group. > > Please tell us; > > How long have you been interested in Aquatic Life? > That is, approximately for how much time now have you been involved with the various aspects of the Aquarium hobby? > > What aspects of the hobby interest you the most? Is there a particular type of Aquatic Life that you like best? > > How many aquariums do you have running? > What size and kind? > > Are you a LFS Owner or Employee? A Suppliers or Importer? > > > > Hope that Helps, > Thank You > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cobra427lady" <clare@> wrote: > > > > > > > > In many other groups I am a member of you can access this information, but not this one - there is no viewing of the member/moderator lists, at least not that I am able to find in the usual places on typical Yahoo Groups pages.  There should be at least a moderators list available to the membership.    > > > > JMHO, mere member that I am.  Still love 75% of the discussions that go on here - entertaining and usually informative unless it gets OT/political, then I tune out :-) > > > > > > Cheers, > > Clare > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <l.nave@> wrote: > > > > > > Check the members list and the moderators are listed or have a crown by their name. > > > Larry > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48821	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

I would never put a Chinesse algae eater in a tank. I have seen the damage they can do once they lose their interest in algae. Once they lose the interest in algae they like the slime coat on the sides of your other fish. Noura you can look into some of the synodontis catfish. They are pretty efficient eaters and many come from the rift lakes which as we know have a lot of cichlids :) -Mike a moderator -----Original Message----- From: anil abraham <k_abraham_b@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 3:45 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Hi, Try Chinese algae eaters especially the Golden variant i had 2 of them in my tank full of malawi & crayfish the lasted. even the crayfish were killed by the cicilids especially during molting. Regards Anil --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 1:16 PM Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48822	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

Also, apple snails do a failrly good job. I have many to share. --- On Wed, 7/28/10, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 1:17 PM I would never put a Chinesse algae eater in a tank. I have seen the damage they can do once they lose their interest in algae. Once they lose the interest in algae they like the slime coat on the sides of your other fish. Noura you can look into some of the synodontis catfish. They are pretty efficient eaters and many come from the rift lakes which as we know have a lot of cichlids :) -Mike a moderator -----Original Message----- From: anil abraham <k_abraham_b@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 3:45 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Hi,      Try Chinese algae eaters especially the Golden variant i had 2 of them in my tank full of malawi & crayfish the lasted. even the crayfish were killed by the cicilids especially during molting. Regards Anil --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 1:16 PM   Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48823	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: San Jose California Fwd: [SVAS] August 7 meeting Dr. Tim Hovanec

This should be a great talk! Dr. Hovanec has come on to our AquaticLife list and answered questions about his products and even given products to one member at one time. He is a wealth of information. His biography below does not list many of his other accomplishements like the Biowheel that many of us use in our tanks. Hi Nitrifying bacteria products have the potential to save thousands of fish for new fish keepers. I am going to have to clear my schedule that day to make it to this meeting. -Mike a Moderator and former board member of the SVAS. San Jose California for thos that missed it in the title. -----Original Message----- To: SiliconValleyAquariumSociety@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 1:15 pm Subject: [SVAS] August 7 meeting Welcome to the Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meeting on August 7 2010. We have Timothy Hovanec presents “Fish Nutrition Basics" Healthy fish require more than just good water quality they also need good nutrition. However, the fundamentals of fish nutrition and fish feeds are a mystery to many hobbyists. This talk will cover the basic components of fish nutrition, how freshwater fish needs differ from marine fish requirements and end with a lesson on how to decipher labels on fish feeds. Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec is the President of DrTim’s Aquatics, LLC. a leading provider of innovative products to the aquarium industry including One and Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria. Dr. Hovanec did his Ph.D. on nitrifying bacteria phylogenetics in aquaria and continues to research the microbial pathways of closed aquatic systems and to develop ‘green’ products for the aquarium industry. Previously, Dr. Hovanec was the head of R&D for Marineland Aquarium Products and Instant Ocean for 17 years where he discovered many novel species of nitrifying bacteria. Past work experience includes managing an aquaculture facility and US Peace Corps volunteer. Dr. Hovanec holds over 12 U.S. and foreign patents and has authored numerous papers on aquatic microbiology, water quality and filtration techniques for closed system life-support systems (check them out at http://www.drtimsaquatics.com). Dr. Hovanec regularly speaks at national and international conferences and is a member of numerous scientific organizations. We have Timothy Hovanec presents “Fish Nutrition Basics" Healthy fish require more than just good water quality they also need good nutrition. However, the fundamentals of fish nutrition and fish feeds are a mystery to many hobbyists. This talk will cover the basic components of fish nutrition, how freshwater fish needs differ from marine fish requirements and end with a lesson on how to decipher labels on fish feeds. Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec is the President of DrTim’s Aquatics, LLC. a leading provider of innovative products to the aquarium industry including One and Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria. Dr. Hovanec did his Ph.D. on nitrifying bacteria phylogenetics in aquaria and continues to research the microbial pathways of closed aquatic systems and to develop ‘green’ products for the aquarium industry. Previously, Dr. Hovanec was the head of R&D for Marineland Aquarium Products and Instant Ocean for 17 years where he discovered many novel species of nitrifying bacteria. Past work experience includes managing an aquaculture facility and US Peace Corps volunteer. Dr. Hovanec holds over 12 U.S. and foreign patents and has authored numerous papers on aquatic microbiology, water quality and filtration techniques for closed system life-support systems (check them out at http://www.drtimsaquatics.com). Dr. Hovanec regularly speaks at national and international conferences and is a member of numerous scientific organizations. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48824	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

Nancy, Great answer. I totally over looked snails as a viable option. I bet Noura would like some however if memory serves she is in Syria and I am not sure of your location. Shipping may have some difficulties for you two. -Mike a moderator -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Also, apple snails do a failrly good job. I have many to share. --- On Wed, 7/28/10, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 1:17 PM I would never put a Chinesse algae eater in a tank. I have seen the damage they can do once they lose their interest in algae. Once they lose the interest in algae they like the slime coat on the sides of your other fish. Noura you can look into some of the synodontis catfish. They are pretty efficient eaters and many come from the rift lakes which as we know have a lot of cichlids :) -Mike a moderator -----Original Message----- From: anil abraham <k_abraham_b@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 3:45 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Hi, Try Chinese algae eaters especially the Golden variant i had 2 of them in my tank full of malawi & crayfish the lasted. even the crayfish were killed by the cicilids especially during molting. Regards Anil --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 1:16 PM Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48825	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

The problem with CAE is they can eventually kill your fish. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anil abraham Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 6:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Hi, Try Chinese algae eaters especially the Golden variant i had 2 of them in my tank full of malawi & crayfish the lasted. even the crayfish were killed by the cicilids especially during molting. Regards Anil --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Noura <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 1:16 PM Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48826	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

I think it's a 30" tank though and cichlids include Kenyi and others. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder I would never put a Chinesse algae eater in a tank. I have seen the damage they can do once they lose their interest in algae. Once they lose the interest in algae they like the slime coat on the sides of your other fish. Noura you can look into some of the synodontis catfish. They are pretty efficient eaters and many come from the rift lakes which as we know have a lot of cichlids :) -Mike a moderator -----Original Message----- From: anil abraham <k_abraham_b@... <mailto:k_abraham_b%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 3:45 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Hi, Try Chinese algae eaters especially the Golden variant i had 2 of them in my tank full of malawi & crayfish the lasted. even the crayfish were killed by the cicilids especially during molting. Regards Anil --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Noura <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 1:16 PM Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48827	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

Cichlids are pretty hard on most snails. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Nancy, Great answer. I totally over looked snails as a viable option. I bet Noura would like some however if memory serves she is in Syria and I am not sure of your location. Shipping may have some difficulties for you two. -Mike a moderator -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@... <mailto:msbutterfly770%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Also, apple snails do a failrly good job. I have many to share. --- On Wed, 7/28/10, Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > wrote: From: Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> <Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 1:17 PM I would never put a Chinesse algae eater in a tank. I have seen the damage they can do once they lose their interest in algae. Once they lose the interest in algae they like the slime coat on the sides of your other fish. Noura you can look into some of the synodontis catfish. They are pretty efficient eaters and many come from the rift lakes which as we know have a lot of cichlids :) -Mike a moderator -----Original Message----- From: anil abraham <k_abraham_b@... <mailto:k_abraham_b%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 3:45 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Hi, Try Chinese algae eaters especially the Golden variant i had 2 of them in my tank full of malawi & crayfish the lasted. even the crayfish were killed by the cicilids especially during molting. Regards Anil --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Noura <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 1:16 PM Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48828	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

I think someone asked when we had the runaway discussion on a non-fish topic recently like where are the Moderators and why aren’t they saving us, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Moderators Hi Bill, I understand what you're saying here but I come away from all of this thinking "What's the big deal with the Moderators all of a sudden? My opinion is we should all be thankful that they are there and helping manage the site as best and as their time warrants! Who cares who they are and why? If they want to be known they would simply introduce themselves by mail saying: Hi everyone! I'm Joe XYZ from Whocares, NY. They don't. Why? Obviously they wish to remain anonymous--------let us leave these good people to their privacy shall we? After all, the group is for fish not Moderators and if they wanted their own group they would start one. For Moderators Only, of course! <g> Just my thoughts Bill --- On Wed, 7/28/10, ccdogpark@... <mailto:ccdogpark%40yahoo.com> <ccdogpark@... <mailto:ccdogpark%40yahoo.com> > wrote: From: ccdogpark@... <mailto:ccdogpark%40yahoo.com> <ccdogpark@... <mailto:ccdogpark%40yahoo.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Moderators To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 9:32 AM Exposing the entire members list to potential harvesting by spambots is a very bad idea in my opinion. And because the people running yahoo.Inc are a bunch of morons, there is no way to show everyone the moderators list without also showing everyone the members list ! Once spambots have the first half of email addreses they can use computer programs to quickly derive the second half by trial and error of the most popular 50 email services for the second half. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yahoo_group_of_groups/ It makes me crazy that this group that is supposed to be giving moderators advice has their members list exposed to harvesting, but I have given up arguing about how stupid this is with them. -------------------- I agree it is very useful to show people who the moderators are but the best ways to do that are: A) in the welcome message via this URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/settings?mode=12 B) create a file in the files section If you only have a couple of moderators then: you can do it in the description like this: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Maryland-Dogs/ or in the links section like this: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rabies-Information/links/YG_001277611209/ Some groups have the moderators listed in the message footers. In the groups I moderate, I frequently put Group Moderator in the signature of messsages I post but I tend to dominate the groups I moderate and only new members need to see this. Bill Zardus Camden County, NJ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dogpark-National-News/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ShelterFundraising/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rabies-Information/ One purpose of this news group is to track and respond to unusual news stories about the manner in which rabies laws are being interpreted, enforced and frequently abused by police and ACOs' across the US and Canada --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , bmp <bmpardue@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > With all the talk of a better moderated list, I wonder who are the moderators here? I know Mike is but I wonder if there are others? > > Thanks, > Beverly > > > Peace, please! > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48829	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Moderators

Actually, This thread was started late last week (7/22 or 7/23) by Lainey, when she asked if Lenny, Amber and I are still on this group, as none of us had much reason to post -- so there was nothing forthcoming from us. Most probably because of the record heat we had prior to that post last week (and which we're still having), there was very little being posted by anyone. This was well after the political fiasco that happened back in June, well over a month ago. Ray, A Moderator</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48830	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

I don't know if a Siamese Algae Eater would stand up to the aggressiveness of Malawi Cichlids, or even if these Cichlids would show aggression towards these algae eaters, but this may be another option when the TDS (total dissolved solids) aren't boosted substantially, artificially. Ray a moderator</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48831	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

I meant to add that, unless you had a fairly abundant growth of algae, you normally wouldn't want to include any other animal that feeds on algae as it would be completing against the Mbuna for a food source. I've seen Clown Loaches used quite successfully with Mbuna, as bottom feeders, but some of the Synodontis found in Lake Tanganyika would feel right at home in a Malawi tank, as Donna suggests, and may probably be the better choice. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48832	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Need a buttom feeder

SAE may be OK with cichlids in a large tank, but I've heard they like to be in groups and they are not a petite fish. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder I don't know if a Siamese Algae Eater would stand up to the aggressiveness of Malawi Cichlids, or even if these Cichlids would show aggression towards these algae eaters, but this may be another option when the TDS (total dissolved solids) aren't boosted substantially, artificially. Ray a moderator</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48833	From: JenniferP	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Introduction

I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48834	From: harry perry	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer

Welcome to our group. Any questions, concerns etc. feel free to ask. We are here to help. Harry, a moderator --- On Wed, 7/28/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 9:08 PM   I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48835	From: Dax Gorham	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Jennifer welcome to the group Dax Daniel John Gorham daxgor@... --- On Wed, 7/28/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 8:08 PM   I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48836	From: jaiko	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Welcome Jenifer pull a seat over and enjoy. --- On Wed, 7/28/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 9:08 PM   I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48837	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer

Hank you I appreciate it. I am still quite the novice but that's why I joined the group. I'm hoping to keep my gourami's flourishing and even get to the point where they feel happy enough to possibly breed. Jennifer ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 8:22:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Welcome to our group. Any questions, concerns etc. feel free to ask. We are here to help. Harry, a moderator --- On Wed, 7/28/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 9:08 PM Â I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48838	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer

Hi Jennifer, Can you tell us what kind of Gouramis you have? I am interested in the golden clams.in your tank. Do they require any special feeding? I was looking into getting some once but did not find out enough about keeping them so I skipped getting them. Glad you are here. -Mike a moderator. -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 6:39 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Hank you I appreciate it. I am still quite the novice but that's why I joined the group. I'm hoping to keep my gourami's flourishing and even get to the point where they feel happy enough to possibly breed. Jennifer ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 8:22:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Welcome to our group. Any questions, concerns etc. feel free to ask. We are here to help. Harry, a moderator --- On Wed, 7/28/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 9:08 PM Â I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48839	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/28/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Welcome to the Group, Jennifer. I hope you find your experience here pleasant, and our advice beneficial. Please feel free to post anything that may be of concern to you. This is the only way we can know how to help you. Please know too, that any recommendations we may make are not criticism, but are meant only to promote your fish keeping abilities. Just as Mike asked, I too would like to know what type(s) of Gourami's you have -- and also how many of them and the Angelfish you have. Would also appreciate knowing the size of your Goldfish. While I don't mean this to knock your fishkeeping methods, but since you're looking for suggestions, you should know that 3 Fancy Goldfish in a 20 Gallon High tank is far too crowded, even though it may not appear as such right now. Fancy Goldfish can grow to between 8" and 10" long (without their fins), and require at least 35 gallons each (or more) at that size. To allow them the opportunity to attain that size, without stunting them, it's best to house them in a large tank now to provide adequate growing room, unless you're planning to upgrade their tank size now and continue doing so as they grow. A smaller tank is going to require larger and many more partial water changes to keep up with the waste given off by these fish, and the grow-inhibiting hormones they constantly produce. I do find your golden clams interesting. One thing to consider with them, is that if they don't get enough food they may die out, causing the water to foul as this usually goes unseen by the hobbyist. They are good filter feeders, but require sufficient quantities of bacteria and/or suspended algae in the water column. Without adequate supplies of these live organisms, they may starve out and any benefit obtained from them as filterers is then far outweighed by this adverse potential. If you're doing well with your clams, as might be suspected in a Goldfish tank (with increased bacteria populations due to their waste), that's encouraging to hear, but you need to consider this possible eventuality and be on the vigil for it. Ray -- moderator Ray -- moderator </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48841	From: april	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: live in Alabama and water test show our water is full of petroleum

just wondering what the sea life would do in this situation. Our local news did an independent water test and even the water from the beaches that looked clear or like regular beach water in a glass with visiblesediment and such turned out to hold a lot of petroleum. One of the samples tested actually exploded in the glass during the testing of the presence of oil. My question is : Will the majority of the sea life actually migrate to cleaner waters by some type of instinct or will there just continue to be an extreme loss of life for the sea creatures? We are working with the extension office and promoting the planting of oyster gardens. WE currently host 4 gardens off of Alabama waters now. These gardens are mainly for the use of research at this point. Have a nice day.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48842	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Jennifer, Nice  to meet you and welcome to the group. There are many knowledgeable people here to solve our problem's.  Nancy/Pa                      --- On Wed, 7/28/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 9:08 PM I would like to introduce myself.  My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums.  One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish.  I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration.  I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish.  Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48843	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: shipping out of country

--- On Wed, 7/28/10, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 4:55 PM Nancy, Great answer. I totally over looked snails as a viable option. I bet Noura would like some however if memory serves she is in Syria and I am not sure of your location. Shipping may have some difficulties for you two. -Mike a moderator -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Also, apple snails do a failrly good job. I have many to share. --- On Wed, 7/28/10, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 1:17 PM I would never put a Chinesse algae eater in a tank. I have seen the damage they can do once they lose their interest in algae. Once they lose the interest in algae they like the slime coat on the sides of your other fish. Noura you can look into some of the synodontis catfish. They are pretty efficient eaters and many come from the rift lakes which as we know have a lot of cichlids :) -Mike a moderator -----Original Message----- From: anil abraham <k_abraham_b@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 3:45 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder Hi,      Try Chinese algae eaters especially the Golden variant i had 2 of them in my tank full of malawi & crayfish the lasted. even the crayfish were killed by the cicilids especially during molting. Regards Anil --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: From: Noura <n-taweel@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Need a buttom feeder To: Aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 1:16 PM   Hi, What bottom feeders are compatible with Malawi Cichlids (in a 30G)? I tried a young common pleco, the cichlids tore its fins! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48844	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: Re: live in Alabama and water test show our water is full of petrole

Your oysters could probably tell you a lot more than probably any combination of us. I would suspect, though, it is not as bad as the TV news was trying to make it out to be. I would suspect that there would be some loss, but, I'll also wager that this is not the first time the Gulf has had to deal with a large volume of oil, though this one was a man made occurrence. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of april Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 10:23 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] live in Alabama and water test show our water is full of petroleum just wondering what the sea life would do in this situation. Our local news did an independent water test and even the water from the beaches that looked clear or like regular beach water in a glass with visiblesediment and such turned out to hold a lot of petroleum. One of the samples tested actually exploded in the glass during the testing of the presence of oil. My question is : Will the majority of the sea life actually migrate to cleaner waters by some type of instinct or will there just continue to be an extreme loss of life for the sea creatures? We are working with the extension office and promoting the planting of oyster gardens. WE currently host 4 gardens off of Alabama waters now. These gardens are mainly for the use of research at this point. Have a nice day.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48845	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 7/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer

I'll do my best to describe them, they are blue, three dot gourami, platinum gourami and pearl for what I know, there are 2 that I'm not sure of the breed. The angel fish are two that I just recently got from the pet store one marble and on gold. The golden clams I got from ebay a while ago and so far they are doing well and reproducing from what I can tell. I suppiment with alga tablets. On the note with the goldfish, they were acquired by me unexpitantly and I set the up in a 10 gallon just to furnish their needs. With the gouramis moving over to the 40g I have moved the goldfish over to the 20g and when the gouramis move to the 55g the goldfish will aquire the 40g. Hope this answers everything that has been adressed and let me know if I missed anything.. Jennifer ________________________________ From: "Deenerz@..." <Deenerz@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 10:14:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Hi Jennifer, Can you tell us what kind of Gouramis you have? I am interested in the golden clams.in your tank. Do they require any special feeding? I was looking into getting some once but did not find out enough about keeping them so I skipped getting them. Glad you are here. -Mike a moderator. -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 6:39 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Hank you I appreciate it. I am still quite the novice but that's why I joined the group. I'm hoping to keep my gourami's flourishing and even get to the point where they feel happy enough to possibly breed. Jennifer ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 8:22:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Welcome to our group. Any questions, concerns etc. feel free to ask. We are here to help. Harry, a moderator --- On Wed, 7/28/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 9:08 PM Â I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48846	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer

All your gouramis are just different varieties of the same species. They can get very aggressive, particularly amongst themselves, so you should provide plenty of cover for them. Also, if they do breed, they will easily breed with each other, thereby diluting the strains they are from. Your goldfish need 30 gallons of water each, meaning that they should be housed in a 90 gallon tank if kept together. Even the fancy varieties will grow quite large and they are considered to be "messy" fish. They will produce copious amounts of ammonia and their mainly vegetarian diet will produce a goodly amount of what is commonly referred as poop. I am glad that you seem to be having success with your clams. They are notoriously difficult to keep, since they are filter feeders, and it is difficult, if not downright impossible, to determine if they have died. If they do die, a goodly amount of toxins can be released into your tank as a result of the deceased clam(s) decaying. For me, the only good clam is a steamed clam <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 10:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer I'll do my best to describe them, they are blue, three dot gourami, platinum gourami and pearl for what I know, there are 2 that I'm not sure of the breed. The angel fish are two that I just recently got from the pet store one marble and on gold. The golden clams I got from ebay a while ago and so far they are doing well and reproducing from what I can tell. I suppiment with alga tablets. On the note with the goldfish, they were acquired by me unexpitantly and I set the up in a 10 gallon just to furnish their needs. With the gouramis moving over to the 40g I have moved the goldfish over to the 20g and when the gouramis move to the 55g the goldfish will aquire the 40g. Hope this answers everything that has been adressed and let me know if I missed anything.. Jennifer ________________________________ From: "Deenerz@..." <Deenerz@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 10:14:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Hi Jennifer, Can you tell us what kind of Gouramis you have? I am interested in the golden clams.in your tank. Do they require any special feeding? I was looking into getting some once but did not find out enough about keeping them so I skipped getting them. Glad you are here. -Mike a moderator. -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 6:39 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Hank you I appreciate it. I am still quite the novice but that's why I joined the group. I'm hoping to keep my gourami's flourishing and even get to the point where they feel happy enough to possibly breed. Jennifer ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 8:22:53 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Welcome to our group. Any questions, concerns etc. feel free to ask. We are here to help. Harry, a moderator --- On Wed, 7/28/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 9:08 PM Â I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48847	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer

Hi Jennifer, Just to keep you advised, your Blue Gourami, your Three-Spot Gourami and your Platinum Gourami are really all one species (Trichogaster trichopterus), just different color morphs of them. This species can get aggressive, as what probably happened between them and the two Angelfish. I'm glad to hear they resolved that issue and that they're now getting along. The Pearl Gourami is generally much more peaceful. With what you have to work with -- a 10 gallon, a 20 gallon, a 40 gallon and now a 55 gallon -- you plan seems fairly well thought out, although eventually your 3 Fancy Goldfish will need a larger tank than the 40 gallon. At that time, provided you keep up with adequate water changing -- as it appears you are doing now, for your tropicals to be doing well in their present aquarium -- you may want to rethink your plan and put your Goldfish in the 55 gallon, returning the tropical fishes to the 40 gallon (even though they are maxed out here). Your 3 Goldfish will eventually need at least this 55 gallons (and preferably much more) if they are to attain their full size. Their rounded mass at full maturity will be equivilent to that of a 12" straight-tail (Common, or Comet) Goldfish. If you Golden Clams are reproducing, they must be doing well. There are some reports that claim these clams do not reproduce in the aquarium, so even if that's "partially" true, it shows they need good conditions to do so, and enough feed to promote this. The algae tablets are a good supplement, but they should be pulverized to allow them to be put into solution to enable these filter feeders to best take this nutrient in. Best of luck, Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48848	From: James (Jim) Darlack	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Lots of tanks, and accessories for sale {Sterling, VA}

Hi Friends, I have lots of tropical tanks and accessories for sale:   110 G tank, stand, Enheim filter, gravel (natural medium brown)   55 G tank and stand, filter, drift wood, external box filter, tops, lights   2 dual 10 G tank and stand, under grav filter, tops, lights   40 G tanks and metal stand   Bunches of 20, 20, 10, 5, 2.5 G tanks, and accessories.   Air pumps, foam filters, used and new/never used.   2 new rolls of silicon tubing.   Folding lid plastic killi tanks 75-100 of various sizes. Lots and lots of other accessories. Lots of expensive tropical fish books. Please note, local pickup only.  Cant ship tanks. Jim Sterling, VA. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48849	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction/Hi, Jennifer

Sorry I said species just couldn't come up with the word I was looking for, but morph is what I meant. As far as the clams go, I don't know if this is the right thing to do but what I normally do is go dig everyone up and put them on top of the sand and then let them dig back in if they don't dig in a matter of days I remove them and put them in a 10 gallon with sand quarantine tank to supervise if there is any movement. ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 5:56:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction/Hi, Jennifer Hi Jennifer, Just to keep you advised, your Blue Gourami, your Three-Spot Gourami and your Platinum Gourami are really all one species (Trichogaster trichopterus), just different color morphs of them. This species can get aggressive, as what probably happened between them and the two Angelfish. I'm glad to hear they resolved that issue and that they're now getting along. The Pearl Gourami is generally much more peaceful. With what you have to work with -- a 10 gallon, a 20 gallon, a 40 gallon and now a 55 gallon -- you plan seems fairly well thought out, although eventually your 3 Fancy Goldfish will need a larger tank than the 40 gallon. At that time, provided you keep up with adequate water changing -- as it appears you are doing now, for your tropicals to be doing well in their present aquarium -- you may want to rethink your plan and put your Goldfish in the 55 gallon, returning the tropical fishes to the 40 gallon (even though they are maxed out here). Your 3 Goldfish will eventually need at least this 55 gallons (and preferably much more) if they are to attain their full size. Their rounded mass at full maturity will be equivilent to that of a 12" straight-tail (Common, or Comet) Goldfish. If you Golden Clams are reproducing, they must be doing well. There are some reports that claim these clams do not reproduce in the aquarium, so even if that's "partially" true, it shows they need good conditions to do so, and enough feed to promote this. The algae tablets are a good supplement, but they should be pulverized to allow them to be put into solution to enable these filter feeders to best take this nutrient in. Best of luck, Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48850	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/30/2010
Subject: Re: Lots of tanks, and accessories for sale {Sterling, VA}

Jim, What do you have available for books and your pricing? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James (Jim) Darlack Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lots of tanks, and accessories for sale {Sterling, VA} Hi Friends, I have lots of tropical tanks and accessories for sale:   110 G tank, stand, Enheim filter, gravel (natural medium brown)   55 G tank and stand, filter, drift wood, external box filter, tops, lights   2 dual 10 G tank and stand, under grav filter, tops, lights   40 G tanks and metal stand   Bunches of 20, 20, 10, 5, 2.5 G tanks, and accessories.   Air pumps, foam filters, used and new/never used.   2 new rolls of silicon tubing.   Folding lid plastic killi tanks 75-100 of various sizes. Lots and lots of other accessories. Lots of expensive tropical fish books. Please note, local pickup only.  Cant ship tanks. Jim Sterling, VA. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48851	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: UK: World's largest captive jellyfish on display

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3069 http://tinyurl.com/38cooya World's largest captive jellyfish on display A jellyfish captured by a fisherman off the coast of East Yorkshire is believed to be the largest in captivity after being donated to The Deep aquarium in Hull. The Lion's Mane jellyfish (Cyanea capillata) in question has a bell diameter of 14 inches (35.5 cm) but, as the largest species of jellyfish in the world, can reach sizes of 7 feet in diameter with tentacles longer than 120 feet. The Deep's jellyfish aquarist Tom Rowe explained, "We were delighted to receive this wonderful animal. "It's the first time I've seen a Lion's Mane jellyfish in the region and it is by far the largest jelly ever displayed at The Deep. As far as we know it's the largest jellyfish in the world in captivity." --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48852	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: MARINE: Vodka Dosing

Here is a short piece on using vodka in your marine aquarium to reduce nitrates and phosphates in the tank's environment. There is a disclaimer under the title of the article that does not really show well (white text on a light blue background), however, if you highlight it, you should be able to read it easily. http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/showthread.php?p=377737 http://tinyurl.com/2dapdnk \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48853	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: Re: Lots of tanks, and accessories for sale {Sterling, VA}

--- On Fri, 7/30/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lots of tanks, and accessories for sale {Sterling, VA} To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 10:43 PM Jim, What do you have available for books and your pricing? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James (Jim) Darlack Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lots of tanks, and accessories for sale {Sterling, VA} Hi Friends, I have lots of tropical tanks and accessories for sale:   110 G tank, stand, Enheim filter, gravel (natural medium brown)   55 G tank and stand, filter, drift wood, external box filter, tops, lights   2 dual 10 G tank and stand, under grav filter, tops, lights   40 G tanks and metal stand   Bunches of 20, 20, 10, 5, 2.5 G tanks, and accessories.   Air pumps, foam filters, used and new/never used.   2 new rolls of silicon tubing.   Folding lid plastic killi tanks 75-100 of various sizes. Lots and lots of other accessories. Lots of expensive tropical fish books. Please note, local pickup only.  Cant ship tanks. Jim Sterling, VA.       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48854	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: Dwarf puffer problem

My dwarf puffer Poe developed a very swollen, reddish chin/jaw about eight days ago. The puffer forum suggested that I anesthetize him and check the inside of his jaw for a wedged snail. Since he's only one inch long and his mouth is the size of a pinhead, I'm not too excited about that plan. Poe is acting pretty normal, though his appetite is not terrific. His jaw area is about two or three times its normal size so he has to get into a weird position to get his mouth to make contact with his food, poor guy:( My LFS suggested I treat him for bacterial infection which I am doing with API melafix (I know this isn't hightest but a lot of people have told me they have good luck with it and you can use it in planted tanks, so this means I don't have to move Poe to a new tank). So far, after 24 hours, he's eating a bit better but the jaw is still enormous. Has anyone ever seen something similar? Do people think it's probably a snail in there after eight days? Thanks for ideas... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48855	From: alambiet	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: Gourami with a sore

Hi I'm wondering what to do about my blue gourami which has a big red sore on the side of his body. He's eating and swimming just fine. My tank includes snails and aquatic frogs so I'm going to treat him in the hospital tank (a 10 gal), where he will be all by himself, and I thought I would add two tbsps of salt and one dose of melafix. If you guys have any suggestions or warnings..let me know. I've gotten great advice here and check first before proceeding since I am relatively new at fishkeeping (about 2 years) He doesn't seem to be in pain but that sore can't be pleasant. Thanks A

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48856	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 7/31/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore

A bit more information would be helpful. Water parameters: pH Ammonia Nitrites Nitrates Temperature Tank inhabitants Fish: kind, number, and size Tank size Method of filtration Aquascaping Plants, rockwork, driftwood, etc. A good description of the condition of the fish In this case, it would be the injury, how large is it, what shape, etc. Don't worry about giving a lot of information. We'd rather blow by information that may not be relevant than not to have enough and resort to guessing. Remember, we cannot see the fish and or environment, so you need to be our eyes Go ahead and quarantine him right now. Just use the salt for the time being, and be sure to add it slowly to give the fish time to adjust to it. Mix it in tank water first, then add the water back to the tank. Also, raise the temperature of the quarantine tank, go to about 80°F. This will aid the healing process during treatment. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of alambiet Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami with a sore Hi I'm wondering what to do about my blue gourami which has a big red sore on the side of his body. He's eating and swimming just fine. My tank includes snails and aquatic frogs so I'm going to treat him in the hospital tank (a 10 gal), where he will be all by himself, and I thought I would add two tbsps of salt and one dose of melafix. If you guys have any suggestions or warnings..let me know. I've gotten great advice here and check first before proceeding since I am relatively new at fishkeeping (about 2 years) He doesn't seem to be in pain but that sore can't be pleasant. Thanks A

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48857	From: Beast	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

Hi, I don't have any suggestions for helping your current problem, however one thing I have found which is useful when raising puffer Fish, I take it that you aren't breeding a lot of your own snails. If you are I suggest you add a small piece of cuttlefish bone like they use for birds to the snails water. This not only encourages healthy snails but it also adds calcium allowing them to build their shells and passing this calcium on to your puffer Fish. I also put in a moderately sized lettuce leaf every second day for the snails to feed on. Just a tip thought I would pass on while the subject was raised. Kind regards Tony Lucas -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Sunday, 1 August 2010 2:02 p.m. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Dwarf puffer problem My dwarf puffer Poe developed a very swollen, reddish chin/jaw about eight days ago. The puffer forum suggested that I anesthetize him and check the inside of his jaw for a wedged snail. Since he's only one inch long and his mouth is the size of a pinhead, I'm not too excited about that plan. Poe is acting pretty normal, though his appetite is not terrific. His jaw area is about two or three times its normal size so he has to get into a weird position to get his mouth to make contact with his food, poor guy:( My LFS suggested I treat him for bacterial infection which I am doing with API melafix (I know this isn't hightest but a lot of people have told me they have good luck with it and you can use it in planted tanks, so this means I don't have to move Poe to a new tank). So far, after 24 hours, he's eating a bit better but the jaw is still enormous. Has anyone ever seen something similar? Do people think it's probably a snail in there after eight days? Thanks for ideas... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48858	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: 12 Bizarre Sexual Practices of Fish

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3090&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=July_28_2010&utm_term=12_bizarre_sexual_practices_of_fish_&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/27ghwn9 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48859	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

Hi Lainey, I wish I were able to offer you more assistance on this one, but as I've never run up against such a problem (or even heard of this before), I'm only writing to assure you that you aren't being ignored. I don't see any other help being offered, so I'm starting to think it's for the same reason as I've just mentioned, but hopefully someone may come forth with more help. I can understand your reluctance in checking this fish out as per the recommendation from the Puffer Forum. Unless there were more than one post recommending this procedure, and unless that recommendation was posted by well-recognized authorities on Pufferfish, I might tend to disregard that advice especially if it appeared to be offered by a well-meaning but otherwise not especially knowledgeable (and you'll know the difference from other past posts) member of that group. I'm not totally disregarding the possibility you mentioned -- as your Puffer possibly having tried to eat a snail that's now lodged behind its jaw -- as there's always room for just about any eventuality in the aquarium world. If you could somehow determine on that Forum whether or not there may be any history of other Puffers experiencing this same siutuation, there would be more credence to the possibility of this occuring. While it wouldn't be very easy to handle such a small fish in examining it especially when considering the small size of its mouth, if you were to do so a blunt/rounded end of an instrument such as a toothpick would make for a good probe, being very careful in manuvering it. If you'd like to attempt this examination, there are tranquilizers available on the market designed for fish use. Some exporters use them consistently and very successfully when shipping long distances to slow the metabolism of these shipped fish, to decrease their oxygen demands and limit their release of wastes. One such product that comes to mind is "Tranquil," which is said to be the safest and most effective fish anesthetic available. It knocks fish out for between 1 and 3 minutes, which is all you'd want to remove this size fish from the water for, anyway. There is also another widely used product called "Finquel" (Tricaine Methanesulfonate -- "TMS"), sometimes just called MS-222. This can be obtained from Drs Foster & Smith, but both products are rather expensive at around $25. You need to follow the doseage measurements explicitely, possibly even more so with Finquel, as just doubling the recommended used quantity of it will euthanize the fish -- which it is also used for at times. Your use of Melafix appears to be of some help, as seen by your fish's better appetite. There usually isn't a much better indictator or a fish's health or well-being than its appetite. As could also be a tumor developing, there may not be much hope for it, but if it appears that this redness is an infection, it would be of a bacterial orgin, in which case a good broad-spectrum antibiotic such as Furan II should be substituted for the Melafix. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48860	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: John Ciotti's "Upside Down Reef" nano tank

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/07/31/upside-nano-reef-john-ciotti/ http://tinyurl.com/2c9tjgj Pictures and interview with the man who designed the tank. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48861	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

Ray - I have tetracycline, do you think that would work? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:50 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Hi Lainey, I wish I were able to offer you more assistance on this > one, > but as I've never run up against such a problem (or even heard of this > before), I'm only writing to assure you that you aren't being > ignored. I don't see > any other help being offered, so I'm starting to think it's for the > same > reason as I've just mentioned, but hopefully someone may come forth > with more > help. > > I can understand your reluctance in checking this fish out as per the > recommendation from the Puffer Forum. Unless there were more than > one post > recommending this procedure, and unless that recommendation was > posted by > well-recognized authorities on Pufferfish, I might tend to > disregard that advice > especially if it appeared to be offered by a well-meaning but > otherwise not > especially knowledgeable (and you'll know the difference from other > past > posts) member of that group. > > I'm not totally disregarding the possibility you mentioned -- as your > Puffer possibly having tried to eat a snail that's now lodged > behind its jaw -- > as there's always room for just about any eventuality in the > aquarium world. > If you could somehow determine on that Forum whether or not there > may be > any history of other Puffers experiencing this same siutuation, > there would be > more credence to the possibility of this occuring. > > While it wouldn't be very easy to handle such a small fish in > examining it > especially when considering the small size of its mouth, if you > were to do > so a blunt/rounded end of an instrument such as a toothpick would > make for a > good probe, being very careful in manuvering it. If you'd like to > attempt > this examination, there are tranquilizers available on the market > designed > for fish use. Some exporters use them consistently and very > successfully when > shipping long distances to slow the metabolism of these shipped > fish, to > decrease their oxygen demands and limit their release of wastes. > > One such product that comes to mind is "Tranquil," which is said to > be the > safest and most effective fish anesthetic available. It knocks fish > out for > between 1 and 3 minutes, which is all you'd want to remove this > size fish > from the water for, anyway. There is also another widely used > product called > "Finquel" (Tricaine Methanesulfonate -- "TMS"), sometimes just called > MS-222. This can be obtained from Drs Foster & Smith, but both > products are > rather expensive at around $25. You need to follow the doseage > measurements > explicitely, possibly even more so with Finquel, as just doubling the > recommended used quantity of it will euthanize the fish -- which it > is also used for > at times. > > Your use of Melafix appears to be of some help, as seen by your fish's > better appetite. There usually isn't a much better indictator or a > fish's > health or well-being than its appetite. As could also be a tumor > developing, > there may not be much hope for it, but if it appears that this > redness is an > infection, it would be of a bacterial orgin, in which case a good > broad-spectrum antibiotic such as Furan II should be substituted > for the Melafix. Ray > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore

Also, make sure not to raise the temperature more than 2 degrees in one day, in case you keep your water lower than 78 (which would be more than 2 degrees difference if you raise it to 80). Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > A bit more information would be helpful. > > Water parameters: > pH > Ammonia > Nitrites > Nitrates > Temperature > Tank inhabitants > Fish: kind, number, and size > Tank size > Method of filtration > Aquascaping > Plants, rockwork, driftwood, etc. > A good description of the condition of the fish > In this case, it would be the injury, how large is it, what > shape, etc. > > Don't worry about giving a lot of information. We'd rather blow by > information that may not be relevant than not to have enough and resort to > guessing. Remember, we cannot see the fish and or environment, so you need > to be our eyes > > Go ahead and quarantine him right now. Just use the salt for the time > being, > and be sure to add it slowly to give the fish time to adjust to it. Mix it > in tank water first, then add the water back to the tank. Also, raise the > temperature of the quarantine tank, go to about 80°F. This will aid the > healing process during treatment. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of alambiet > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami with a sore > > Hi > > I'm wondering what to do about my blue gourami which has a big red sore on > the side of his body. > > He's eating and swimming just fine. > > My tank includes snails and aquatic frogs so I'm going to treat him in the > hospital tank (a 10 gal), where he will be all by himself, and I thought I > would add two tbsps of salt and one dose of melafix. > > If you guys have any suggestions or warnings..let me know. I've gotten > great > advice here and check first before proceeding since I am relatively new at > fishkeeping (about 2 years) > > He doesn't seem to be in pain but that sore can't be pleasant. > > Thanks > A > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48863	From: alambiet	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore

Your're right. I tested everything in the tank yesterday: My amo is at 0, Nitrites at 0; High Ph is at 7.4, Low is at 7.2; Temp is at about 82 (we're in Florida) Tank is a 38 gal, I have fairly common freshwater fish in there. A couple of tetras, a couple of Silver Dollars, the gourami, one kissing gourami, two giant apple snails; two african dwarf frogs, two loaches, two catfish species. I don't have real plants; I have a couple of fake logs as decor, and plastic plants. Fish are all fairly small in size, from a half in to the sick gourami, the largest, at about 3 inches. I do about a 20% PWC each week, my conditions have been really good for a long time. No injuries or sick fish..this came out of the blue. This is my dominant fish..he tends to be the leader of the 12 or so fish in there, since he is the largest in size. Tank has been established for about 18 months to 2 years..... Fish is eating and happily moving around, wound is red, about the size of a small pearl near one of his fins. He is in a quarantine tank which I set up with a second filter I had in my main tank, and some of that tank's water. He has been eating, moving around like normal, just red gaping, scaly sore, with a lot of swelling I did treat the water in the quarantine tank with salt, two tbsps since it is 10 gal. I added one tsp of Melafix. He is tolerating all of that well at the moment. Quarantine has nothing in it except him and water. I have not heated it beyond 82. Only thing that might differ from the ordinary tank are the frogs and snails, but he's lived with them for a long time. I occasionally put slices of cucumbers or lettuce in the tank. They get regular flakes, some shrimp pellets; once or twice a week I'll offer the tank bloodworms and other frozen fish food. Don't use any meds or chems ....in the main tank, aside from the neutralizer added when I do PWC, the main is on natural mode. Because of the snails, I don't add salt to that tank at all. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > A bit more information would be helpful. > > Water parameters: > pH > Ammonia > Nitrites > Nitrates > Temperature > Tank inhabitants > Fish: kind, number, and size > Tank size > Method of filtration > Aquascaping > Plants, rockwork, driftwood, etc. > A good description of the condition of the fish > In this case, it would be the injury, how large is it, what > shape, etc. > > Don't worry about giving a lot of information. We'd rather blow by > information that may not be relevant than not to have enough and resort to > guessing. Remember, we cannot see the fish and or environment, so you need > to be our eyes > > Go ahead and quarantine him right now. Just use the salt for the time being, > and be sure to add it slowly to give the fish time to adjust to it. Mix it > in tank water first, then add the water back to the tank. Also, raise the > temperature of the quarantine tank, go to about 80°F. This will aid the > healing process during treatment. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of alambiet > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami with a sore > > Hi > > I'm wondering what to do about my blue gourami which has a big red sore on > the side of his body. > > He's eating and swimming just fine. > > My tank includes snails and aquatic frogs so I'm going to treat him in the > hospital tank (a 10 gal), where he will be all by himself, and I thought I > would add two tbsps of salt and one dose of melafix. > > If you guys have any suggestions or warnings..let me know. I've gotten great > advice here and check first before proceeding since I am relatively new at > fishkeeping (about 2 years) > > He doesn't seem to be in pain but that sore can't be pleasant. > > Thanks > A >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48864	From: alambiet	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore

One more thing I just took water sample of the main tank over to the local fish store and my ph readings for her were 6.0...baad. She's suggesting I add 2 tsp baking soda to the main tank, a half tsp to the quarantine tank since we're using the same water source for both. She's suggesting I just add salt and see how he progresses. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "alambiet" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > > Your're right. > > > I tested everything in the tank yesterday: > > My amo is at 0, Nitrites at 0; High Ph is at 7.4, Low is at 7.2; Temp is at about 82 (we're in Florida) > > Tank is a 38 gal, I have fairly common freshwater fish in there. A couple of tetras, a couple of Silver Dollars, the gourami, one kissing gourami, two giant apple snails; two african dwarf frogs, two loaches, two catfish species. I don't have real plants; I have a couple of fake logs as decor, and plastic plants. Fish are all fairly small in size, from a half in to the sick gourami, the largest, at about 3 inches. > > I do about a 20% PWC each week, my conditions have been really good for a long time. No injuries or sick fish..this came out of the blue. This is my dominant fish..he tends to be the leader of the 12 or so fish in there, since he is the largest in size. Tank has been established for about 18 months to 2 years..... > > Fish is eating and happily moving around, wound is red, about the size of a small pearl near one of his fins. He is in a quarantine tank which I set up with a second filter I had in my main tank, and some of that tank's water. He has been eating, moving around like normal, just red gaping, scaly sore, with a lot of swelling > > I did treat the water in the quarantine tank with salt, two tbsps since it is 10 gal. I added one tsp of Melafix. He is tolerating all of that well at the moment. Quarantine has nothing in it except him and water. I have not heated it beyond 82. > > Only thing that might differ from the ordinary tank are the frogs and snails, but he's lived with them for a long time. I occasionally put slices of cucumbers or lettuce in the tank. They get regular flakes, some shrimp pellets; once or twice a week I'll offer the tank bloodworms and other frozen fish food. > > Don't use any meds or chems ....in the main tank, aside from the neutralizer added when I do PWC, the main is on natural mode. Because of the snails, I don't add salt to that tank at all. > > Alina > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > A bit more information would be helpful. > > > > Water parameters: > > pH > > Ammonia > > Nitrites > > Nitrates > > Temperature > > Tank inhabitants > > Fish: kind, number, and size > > Tank size > > Method of filtration > > Aquascaping > > Plants, rockwork, driftwood, etc. > > A good description of the condition of the fish > > In this case, it would be the injury, how large is it, what > > shape, etc. > > > > Don't worry about giving a lot of information. We'd rather blow by > > information that may not be relevant than not to have enough and resort to > > guessing. Remember, we cannot see the fish and or environment, so you need > > to be our eyes > > > > Go ahead and quarantine him right now. Just use the salt for the time being, > > and be sure to add it slowly to give the fish time to adjust to it. Mix it > > in tank water first, then add the water back to the tank. Also, raise the > > temperature of the quarantine tank, go to about 80°F. This will aid the > > healing process during treatment. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of alambiet > > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami with a sore > > > > Hi > > > > I'm wondering what to do about my blue gourami which has a big red sore on > > the side of his body. > > > > He's eating and swimming just fine. > > > > My tank includes snails and aquatic frogs so I'm going to treat him in the > > hospital tank (a 10 gal), where he will be all by himself, and I thought I > > would add two tbsps of salt and one dose of melafix. > > > > If you guys have any suggestions or warnings..let me know. I've gotten great > > advice here and check first before proceeding since I am relatively new at > > fishkeeping (about 2 years) > > > > He doesn't seem to be in pain but that sore can't be pleasant. > > > > Thanks > > A > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48865	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore

Did you notice either the kisser or the silver dollars harassing this fish? Any chance of him racing around the tank and running into the plastic décor? Yu say the wound is near one of the fins. Which fin, and how close? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of alambiet Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 1:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami with a sore Your're right. I tested everything in the tank yesterday: My amo is at 0, Nitrites at 0; High Ph is at 7.4, Low is at 7.2; Temp is at about 82 (we're in Florida) Tank is a 38 gal, I have fairly common freshwater fish in there. A couple of tetras, a couple of Silver Dollars, the gourami, one kissing gourami, two giant apple snails; two african dwarf frogs, two loaches, two catfish species. I don't have real plants; I have a couple of fake logs as decor, and plastic plants. Fish are all fairly small in size, from a half in to the sick gourami, the largest, at about 3 inches. I do about a 20% PWC each week, my conditions have been really good for a long time. No injuries or sick fish..this came out of the blue. This is my dominant fish..he tends to be the leader of the 12 or so fish in there, since he is the largest in size. Tank has been established for about 18 months to 2 years..... Fish is eating and happily moving around, wound is red, about the size of a small pearl near one of his fins. He is in a quarantine tank which I set up with a second filter I had in my main tank, and some of that tank's water. He has been eating, moving around like normal, just red gaping, scaly sore, with a lot of swelling I did treat the water in the quarantine tank with salt, two tbsps since it is 10 gal. I added one tsp of Melafix. He is tolerating all of that well at the moment. Quarantine has nothing in it except him and water. I have not heated it beyond 82. Only thing that might differ from the ordinary tank are the frogs and snails, but he's lived with them for a long time. I occasionally put slices of cucumbers or lettuce in the tank. They get regular flakes, some shrimp pellets; once or twice a week I'll offer the tank bloodworms and other frozen fish food. Don't use any meds or chems ....in the main tank, aside from the neutralizer added when I do PWC, the main is on natural mode. Because of the snails, I don't add salt to that tank at all. Alina --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > A bit more information would be helpful. > > Water parameters: > pH > Ammonia > Nitrites > Nitrates > Temperature > Tank inhabitants > Fish: kind, number, and size > Tank size > Method of filtration > Aquascaping > Plants, rockwork, driftwood, etc. > A good description of the condition of the fish > In this case, it would be the injury, how large is it, what > shape, etc. > > Don't worry about giving a lot of information. We'd rather blow by > information that may not be relevant than not to have enough and resort to > guessing. Remember, we cannot see the fish and or environment, so you need > to be our eyes > > Go ahead and quarantine him right now. Just use the salt for the time being, > and be sure to add it slowly to give the fish time to adjust to it. Mix it > in tank water first, then add the water back to the tank. Also, raise the > temperature of the quarantine tank, go to about 80°F. This will aid the > healing process during treatment. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of alambiet > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:39 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami with a sore > > Hi > > I'm wondering what to do about my blue gourami which has a big red sore on > the side of his body. > > He's eating and swimming just fine. > > My tank includes snails and aquatic frogs so I'm going to treat him in the > hospital tank (a 10 gal), where he will be all by himself, and I thought I > would add two tbsps of salt and one dose of melafix. > > If you guys have any suggestions or warnings..let me know. I've gotten great > advice here and check first before proceeding since I am relatively new at > fishkeeping (about 2 years) > > He doesn't seem to be in pain but that sore can't be pleasant. > > Thanks > A >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48866	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami with a sore

Do you have your own pH and other test kits? Where did the 7.4 pH number come from? What we need to do is to get some baseline tests done for pH, at least, and ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as well. To get a baseline, fill a container with water from the tap. Measure the pH. Let the container of water stand for 48 hours, testing again at approximately 24 hours and then at 48. Once done, report your findings here. We need to know if the pH is dropping naturally, or if it is dropping as the water outgases to reach an equilibrium. YOU DO NOT WANT TO TRY TO CHANGE YOUR WATER CHEMISTRY. Once we have the baseline, we can decide what to do with your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of alambiet Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami with a sore One more thing I just took water sample of the main tank over to the local fish store and my ph readings for her were 6.0...baad. She's suggesting I add 2 tsp baking soda to the main tank, a half tsp to the quarantine tank since we're using the same water source for both. She's suggesting I just add salt and see how he progresses. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "alambiet" <alambiet@...> wrote: > > > > Your're right. > > > I tested everything in the tank yesterday: > > My amo is at 0, Nitrites at 0; High Ph is at 7.4, Low is at 7.2; Temp is at about 82 (we're in Florida) > > Tank is a 38 gal, I have fairly common freshwater fish in there. A couple of tetras, a couple of Silver Dollars, the gourami, one kissing gourami, two giant apple snails; two african dwarf frogs, two loaches, two catfish species. I don't have real plants; I have a couple of fake logs as decor, and plastic plants. Fish are all fairly small in size, from a half in to the sick gourami, the largest, at about 3 inches. > > I do about a 20% PWC each week, my conditions have been really good for a long time. No injuries or sick fish..this came out of the blue. This is my dominant fish..he tends to be the leader of the 12 or so fish in there, since he is the largest in size. Tank has been established for about 18 months to 2 years..... > > Fish is eating and happily moving around, wound is red, about the size of a small pearl near one of his fins. He is in a quarantine tank which I set up with a second filter I had in my main tank, and some of that tank's water. He has been eating, moving around like normal, just red gaping, scaly sore, with a lot of swelling > > I did treat the water in the quarantine tank with salt, two tbsps since it is 10 gal. I added one tsp of Melafix. He is tolerating all of that well at the moment. Quarantine has nothing in it except him and water. I have not heated it beyond 82. > > Only thing that might differ from the ordinary tank are the frogs and snails, but he's lived with them for a long time. I occasionally put slices of cucumbers or lettuce in the tank. They get regular flakes, some shrimp pellets; once or twice a week I'll offer the tank bloodworms and other frozen fish food. > > Don't use any meds or chems ....in the main tank, aside from the neutralizer added when I do PWC, the main is on natural mode. Because of the snails, I don't add salt to that tank at all. > > Alina > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > A bit more information would be helpful. > > > > Water parameters: > > pH > > Ammonia > > Nitrites > > Nitrates > > Temperature > > Tank inhabitants > > Fish: kind, number, and size > > Tank size > > Method of filtration > > Aquascaping > > Plants, rockwork, driftwood, etc. > > A good description of the condition of the fish > > In this case, it would be the injury, how large is it, what > > shape, etc. > > > > Don't worry about giving a lot of information. We'd rather blow by > > information that may not be relevant than not to have enough and resort to > > guessing. Remember, we cannot see the fish and or environment, so you need > > to be our eyes > > > > Go ahead and quarantine him right now. Just use the salt for the time being, > > and be sure to add it slowly to give the fish time to adjust to it. Mix it > > in tank water first, then add the water back to the tank. Also, raise the > > temperature of the quarantine tank, go to about 80°F. This will aid the > > healing process during treatment. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of alambiet > > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Gourami with a sore > > > > Hi > > > > I'm wondering what to do about my blue gourami which has a big red sore on > > the side of his body. > > > > He's eating and swimming just fine. > > > > My tank includes snails and aquatic frogs so I'm going to treat him in the > > hospital tank (a 10 gal), where he will be all by himself, and I thought I > > would add two tbsps of salt and one dose of melafix. > > > > If you guys have any suggestions or warnings..let me know. I've gotten great > > advice here and check first before proceeding since I am relatively new at > > fishkeeping (about 2 years) > > > > He doesn't seem to be in pain but that sore can't be pleasant. > > > > Thanks > > A > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48867	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

Lainey, Yes, Tetracyline will work in fighting any bacterial infection, provided your pH is below 7.5 and you don't have hard water; it's a good broad-spectrum antibiotic. Being derived from a biological source (as derived from a species of Streptomyces bacteria) it will, however, deplete the nitrifying bacteria in your filter. As Furan II, on the other hand, is a chemically manufactured antibiotic, and as such it is said not to interfere with your nitrifying bacteria. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48868	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

Ray - Please advise. I am moving Poe into a hospital tank and all I have now is the Tetracycline. What will happen if I use this in the hospital tank in terms of the water params? How do you use this med and maintain water quality? Thanks for a response as I am doing this as we speak. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 1, 2010, at 4:11 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Yes, Tetracyline will work in fighting any bacterial > infection, > provided your pH is below 7.5 and you don't have hard water; it's a > good > broad-spectrum antibiotic. Being derived from a biological source > (as derived > from a species of Streptomyces bacteria) it will, however, deplete the > nitrifying bacteria in your filter. As Furan II, on the other hand, > is a > chemically manufactured antibiotic, and as such it is said not to > interfere with your > nitrifying bacteria. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48869	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

Ray, It's Maracyn TC and the package says it will not harm the biofilter. Maybe I don't have what I think I have? It seems to be tetracycline and that's what they said at the LFS. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 1, 2010, at 4:16 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Ray - > > Please advise. I am moving Poe into a hospital tank and all I have > now is the Tetracycline. What will happen if I use this in the > hospital tank in terms of the water params? How do you use this med > and maintain water quality? > > Thanks for a response as I am doing this as we speak. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 1, 2010, at 4:11 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > >> Lainey, Yes, Tetracyline will work in fighting any bacterial >> infection, >> provided your pH is below 7.5 and you don't have hard water; it's a >> good >> broad-spectrum antibiotic. Being derived from a biological source >> (as derived >> from a species of Streptomyces bacteria) it will, however, deplete >> the >> nitrifying bacteria in your filter. As Furan II, on the other hand, >> is a >> chemically manufactured antibiotic, and as such it is said not to >> interfere with your >> nitrifying bacteria. Ray</HTML> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48870	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

Lainey, Yes you have Tetracycline (Maracyn TC IS Tetracycline). I just didn't want you to add this to your main tank. Your water parameters for the fish's comparatively short (hopefully) stay in your hospital tank will be controlled by PWC's as the directions will recommend doing them in between adding fresh re-doses of this powder as the treament progresses. If you use any type of filter, in the hospital tank, that may make use of carbon -- be sure to remove this carbon. Otherwise, as the treatment progresses, check out your parameters as you go and be ready to make even larger PWC's than what the directions say, should it become necessary. For one 1" fish in a hospital tank (10 gallons?), there should not be that much of a build up of waste products that would require any large PWC's, though. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48871	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

Ray - I also discovered I have Maracyn regular. Would this be better? I just started the Maracyn TC, only the one dose for today. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 1, 2010, at 5:20 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Yes you have Tetracycline (Maracyn TC IS Tetracycline). I just > didn't want you to add this to your main tank. Your water > parameters for the > fish's comparatively short (hopefully) stay in your hospital tank > will be > controlled by PWC's as the directions will recommend doing them in > between > adding fresh re-doses of this powder as the treament progresses. If > you use > any type of filter, in the hospital tank, that may make use of > carbon -- be > sure to remove this carbon. Otherwise, as the treatment progresses, > check out > your parameters as you go and be ready to make even larger PWC's > than what > the directions say, should it become necessary. For one 1" fish in a > hospital tank (10 gallons?), there should not be that much of a > build up of waste > products that would require any large PWC's, though. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48872	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

Lainey, Maracyn "regular" is Erythromycin -- primarily treating against gram-positive pathogens although it does also treat some gram-negative bacteria. I would not call it a broad-spectrum bacticide. Your Maracyn TC is much better for use against most bacteria. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48873	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/1/2010
Subject: Re: Dwarf puffer problem

I can see the problem area well in the hospital tank. It looks like a hard knob where his chin should be with swelling around that. I would say it was a tumor, but a tumor wouldn't have emerged overnight, would it? This was not there one day and there the next, and it's really big. If Poe were human this would be like a golfball on his chin. Is it even possible that a snail shell is wedged down there? If so, will it ever dissolve? He just seems totally frisky and normal, behaviorally, other than that it is hard for him to eat. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 1, 2010, at 7:42 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Maracyn "regular" is Erythromycin -- primarily treating > against > gram-positive pathogens although it does also treat some gram-negative > bacteria. I would not call it a broad-spectrum bacticide. Your > Maracyn TC is much > better for use against most bacteria. Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48874	From: john Lewis	Date: 8/3/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Hello:    Welcome to the group.  There are lots of well informed participants here.  Enjoy!    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 9:08:35 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction   I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48875	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/3/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Thank you all for the warm welcome. I had a few questions? Today I had my water tested (awaiting my home kit to arrive still) and everything was good but pH was high. I was told for the area not to put too much stock in the pH and that since all my other levels were great to not worry at all. Any thoughts on this? Second, I have a 45 gallon tall aquarium. I was wondering how many fish could be in there successfully. Sorry originally I thought it was a 40g but was told it's a 45g. Anyway, I have 8 gouramis and 3 angels, one loan tetra that I've had forever and a pleco. Thoughts? I have someone offering to give me a pair of thick lipped gouramis and was wondering if that was pushing it for that tank? Jennifer ________________________________ From: john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, August 3, 2010 9:51:30 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction     Hello:   Welcome to the group. There are lots of well informed participants here. Enjoy!   Have a Great Day!!!   Spawn ________________________________ From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 9:08:35 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Introduction  I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I have two freshwater aquariums. One is a 40g tall with Gouramis and Angel fish. I use sand as a substrate and have golden clams for some filtration. I also have a 20g tall with 3 fancy goldfish. Just looking to pick up some suggestions and learn a little along the way. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48876	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/3/2010
Subject: {Off Topic} Register for Aquademics and one of your students could w

Not a Teacher? You probably know somebody who is a student, please forward this to them. Thanks http://tetra-fish.com/aquademics/default.aspx Cash for College Because every kid deserves a chance to learn more. Register for Aquademics and one of your students could win $1,000 to save for college. Aquademics is a hands-on/minds-on enrichment opportunity that brings learning to life for children, whether they are sitting in the classroom or gathered with family members around the aquarium in the living room. Getting started with Aquademics® Aquariums offer a window into a world where lessons can be learned every day. It's not just the science of creating a thriving ecosystem, but lessons of responsibility and interdependency that inspire students and teachers alike. By signing up for Aquademics®, you'll receive materials that make this hands-on, minds-on learning experience come to life. Along with important step-by-step instructions, there's information on how Aquademics® can help meet state learning standards in Science, Math, Language Arts, Social Studies, Ecology, Writing and more.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48877	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/3/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Jennifer, Thanks for your most recent post, and I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. To start with though, in order for us to help you under any circumstances, with any issues concerning water parameters, we need numbers to go by -- not just reports that "everything was good," or "everything tests out fine" or "okay. Please keep this in mind to enable us to help you in the future. We can guess that everything was well within limits, but that assumption doesn't always cut it. Likewise, I actually have no idea what-so-ever by what you mean when you state your pH is too high, What do you consider too high, and just what is your pH reading at this time? Too, while it may be encouraging to "know" that since all of your other levels were great (?), that you don't need to put much stock in the pH and that you needn't worry. But, since there are some parameters which are closely linked with the pH in determining if your water may be toxic, this is impossible for us to determine, or even go along with, unless we know the actual readings (in numbers) of your other parameters. On your question about adding more fish, for starters, we do not know what species of Gourami's you have presently, nor could we then know how large these Gouramis are. Off-hand, if we might have to guess that your present Gouramis are (or will grow to) 4", and this might be conservative (or perhaps over-estimated?), when added to the size that Angelfish grow to (even if they're not fully grown now), I'd have to say you're more than maxed out now and a tad crowded. To help clarify some of this, a 45 gallon high tank has 120 square inches LESS surface area than does a 40 gallon long tank, so you can see that this tank will not hold as many fish as you first thought when it appeared the tank was a 40 gallon. You don't just go by the amount of gallons when figuring the bioload, but also the surface area when considering what the tank can maintain. Essentially, your 45 gallon high tank has no more surface area than a 30 gallon tank, so this factor restricts the amount of fish you might ordinarily have in 45 gallons if the tank had more conventional dimensions instead of being short, narrow and tall. If you're not really sure of your tank's size, just give us its dimensions -- unless you care to figure the volume, in which case just multiply the length (in inches) by the width by the height and divide by 231. Fortunately, all your Gouramis are able to breathe atmospheric air, in addition to obtaining their oxygen from the water, and while Thick-Lipped Gouramis only grow to about 3 1/4", the moderate (yet substantial) increase in the bioload may not have a devastating effect on the other Gouramis -- because of the reason just stated -- but your 3 Angelfish, lone Tetra and Pleco would stand to suffer. BTW, I'd just like to mention that if this is a common Pleco, they can easily grow to 18" or more and will immensely increase the bioload overwhelming your tank's capacity for it. I'm not trying to look at things negatively here, or put a wet damper on things, but just thought I'd advise you of a possible danger to consider, if your Pleco is of a species that routinely gets this large. A smaller, Bushy-Nosed Pleco (which only gets to 5" - 6") would be more in keeping with your needs -- which you may even have -- but of course I really don't know since it wasn't stated. Best of luck and keep us informed. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48878	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Pictures of Poe

Here are pictures of my dwarf puffer. The antibiotics are not helping: http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/poside.jpg? t=1280937870 http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/pofront.jpg? t=1280937974 Can anyone speculate on this for me? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48879	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Poe

These links are broken so have to be cut and pasted. I also put the pictures up in new photos. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 4, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Here are pictures of my dwarf puffer. The antibiotics are not helping: > > http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/poside.jpg? > t=1280937870 > > http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/pofront.jpg? > t=1280937974 > > Can anyone speculate on this for me? > > Thanks, > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48880	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Pictures of Poe

Lainey, I don't know whether the fish may still have a jagged piece if snail shell lodged into the inside of its jaw, as you first suspected, but if it does -- while antibiotics may help in fighting any bacterial infection caused by this (if it exists), such a wound won't heal nor will the infection abate unless the suspected snail shell is removed. I don't know of any easy way to check for this that isn't hairy to try to attempt on a small fish like this. Furan II may have a better effect, but I know how far it is for you to get to a pet shop. Next time your there though, pick up this antibiotic to keep it on hand in your fridge. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48881	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Ok, I'm going to break down the post and it might take me a few to answer but here goes. pH was about 8.5 to me that's too high. I believe the others and I can't recall the numbers but if you go on the color scale for N3 and all the others they were in the first color block. I know now to pay attention to numbers and will do so once my kit arrives here for me to do at home. I am concerned with the pH solely because of the angel fish and them being a little bit more tender of fish for parameters out of whack. I have all the three dot gourami's and their color morphs blue, platinum, opal and yellow and a pearl (8 total), 3 of them are much younger and therefore smaller but I consider them all at the growth that they'll be when they mature. The angel fish are also babies at this point but again am considering how large they will become. As you stated with the gouramis being atmospheric air breathers as well as o2 in the water per Innes book I went with the fact that I could have a few more than normal for the size of the tank. I will however be moving to a 55 gallon tank in the future and the larger of the gouramis will move with it therefore spreading them out and giving them room as they age. As far as the pleco goes, my fish store currently offers a program where if your pleco is getting too large for the tank you can bring him in and switch him for a young one so they are never over growing the tank or getting stressed out. Hope this answers some of the questions and I think I've already come to my decision that I should probably not put any more in the tank and wait for the other tank to be set up. Thank you for your assistance. Jennifer ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, August 3, 2010 9:58:58 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction Jennifer, Thanks for your most recent post, and I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. To start with though, in order for us to help you under any circumstances, with any issues concerning water parameters, we need numbers to go by -- not just reports that "everything was good," or "everything tests out fine" or "okay. Please keep this in mind to enable us to help you in the future. We can guess that everything was well within limits, but that assumption doesn't always cut it. Likewise, I actually have no idea what-so-ever by what you mean when you state your pH is too high, What do you consider too high, and just what is your pH reading at this time? Too, while it may be encouraging to "know" that since all of your other levels were great (?), that you don't need to put much stock in the pH and that you needn't worry. But, since there are some parameters which are closely linked with the pH in determining if your water may be toxic, this is impossible for us to determine, or even go along with, unless we know the actual readings (in numbers) of your other parameters. On your question about adding more fish, for starters, we do not know what species of Gourami's you have presently, nor could we then know how large these Gouramis are. Off-hand, if we might have to guess that your present Gouramis are (or will grow to) 4", and this might be conservative (or perhaps over-estimated?), when added to the size that Angelfish grow to (even if they're not fully grown now), I'd have to say you're more than maxed out now and a tad crowded. To help clarify some of this, a 45 gallon high tank has 120 square inches LESS surface area than does a 40 gallon long tank, so you can see that this tank will not hold as many fish as you first thought when it appeared the tank was a 40 gallon. You don't just go by the amount of gallons when figuring the bioload, but also the surface area when considering what the tank can maintain. Essentially, your 45 gallon high tank has no more surface area than a 30 gallon tank, so this factor restricts the amount of fish you might ordinarily have in 45 gallons if the tank had more conventional dimensions instead of being short, narrow and tall. If you're not really sure of your tank's size, just give us its dimensions -- unless you care to figure the volume, in which case just multiply the length (in inches) by the width by the height and divide by 231. Fortunately, all your Gouramis are able to breathe atmospheric air, in addition to obtaining their oxygen from the water, and while Thick-Lipped Gouramis only grow to about 3 1/4", the moderate (yet substantial) increase in the bioload may not have a devastating effect on the other Gouramis -- because of the reason just stated -- but your 3 Angelfish, lone Tetra and Pleco would stand to suffer. BTW, I'd just like to mention that if this is a common Pleco, they can easily grow to 18" or more and will immensely increase the bioload overwhelming your tank's capacity for it. I'm not trying to look at things negatively here, or put a wet damper on things, but just thought I'd advise you of a possible danger to consider, if your Pleco is of a species that routinely gets this large. A smaller, Bushy-Nosed Pleco (which only gets to 5" - 6") would be more in keeping with your needs -- which you may even have -- but of course I really don't know since it wasn't stated. Best of luck and keep us informed. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48882	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Jennifer, Thank you for taking the time to break down and go over your last post. While you didn't have all the numbers, at least we know more than we did before -- and are able to advise you better because of it. Please know, that dispite any appearance of my message possibly having a look of disapproval or of being condecending, as though putting aside whatever information you supplied, that I would never take such an attitude -- and I say this without you're even mentioning anything as I realize how it can appear. Yet, we do need to know the numbers. Yes, your pH of 8.5 is quite high for the comfort of those fish you now have, even the Gouramis. All of your fishes, including your Angelfish, are capable of adapting to this pH though, even though it's at the top border of their range. The fact that your fish are still doimg fine healthwise is testiment to that, but aside from this it has been documented that Angels will not only live in these conditions, but will breed (even though their eggs may often not hatch). It would be in your fishes' best interest to be able to lower this pH, but that's not the easiest thing to do. Here's where more numbers would be helpful, as it would be good to know your KH (Temporary Hardness . . . or, buffering capacity), but there's no rush on that. I would though, like to bring to your attention, that with your present pH, just a level of 0.25 ppm of Total Ammonia at pH 8.5 and at a usual temperature around 78 o, your water would become toxic to some fish and lethal to some others. Apparently you are keeping your parameters (especially the Ammonia and Nitrite) just where they should be -- most probably at "0.0 ppm;" good work. Aside from possibly trying to lower your pH if we can, just keep up your present maintenance methods as they're doing fine. Now, getting to your Gouramis -- and every one of them being 3-Spot Gouramis -- as you have the Innes book you will know that this species grows to 5". Just taking those fish, and for the moment using the 1" of fish per gallon rule (which is no longer applicable towards fish much larger than 3" as it doesn't take into account the additional height and girth of fish), you have 40 Total Inches of fish there -- not to mention their bulk. You are really way overcrowded now -- which is not meant as a disapproval or a put-down -- but just as a warning to kkep up with what you're doing. I do notice you'll be sprerading some of these fish out to the 55 gallon, which should make things a lot less crowded for all of them. Got to sign off at the moment, but will be right back shortly. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48883	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Hi again Jennifer, Okay, I'm back and I notice you have an arrangement with your pet shop to be able to exchange your Pleco for a smaller one when it get's too large. While I had no way of knowing this before, this is exactly what we encourage the members to do whenever they can, although not every pet shop is that accommodating. The back-up plan would be to try to re-home you common Pleco (if that's what you have) in favor of buying one of the smaller ones -- which you could still do. The Long-Finned Albino Ancistrus is a very attractive looking Bushy-Mouthed Pleco, not getting more than 6" long, and a very nice addition to the home aquarium. Your final decision, as seen at the end of your post, would seem to be a very wise one in waiting for the 55 gallon to get set up. Hopefully, you'd still be able to get those Thick-Lipped Gouramis at that time as I know you'd probably enjoy them. In the meantime, we could try to help you get your pH down if you'd like, but just know that it is not at all nearly as easy as increasing your pH. When you get a chance, some parameter numbers may help, but not of immediate importance. Oops, just went back to re-read your last message again and I notice that two of your 8 Gouramis are Pearl Gouramis -- which get to only 4", but you still have a heavy bioload here. Even if the oxygen isn't being as depleted as might ordinarily be, there's still a lot of waste being produced, but I feel I don't need to tell you this. Actually, as concerns these air-breathing fish, I don't believe that they'll avail themselves of a gulp of air until the oxygen in the water column begins to drop down. So when too many of them deplete the dissolved oxygen, it would bother them so much, but their other tankmates will suffer. Keep up the good work; it looks like you have things well under control. BTW, you can't go wrong with making good use of the Innes book -- it covers all the basics and, like Will Shakespeare's works (LOL), will never go out of style since what it covers has a universality of appeal -- it's timeless. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48884	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Jennifer, A Big OOPS here. In re-reading what I just wrote, I notice a glaring typo that turns a meaning into just the opposite of what I meant to write. In the third paragraph of my most recent message, the third sentence from the end concerning the Gouramis and their comfort or discomfort in regards the drop in dissolved oxygen should read -- "So when too many of them deplete the dissolved oxygen, it WOULDN'T bother them so much, but their other tankmaters will suffer. Too bad we can't edit these posts after the fact, it would make things so simpler. Hope this clarifies things better. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48885	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Yes thank you, the Innes book was suggested to me by the guy at the fish store. He breeds the angels I have in my tank in his home. While I have not been able to read the whole book it has given me great insight in alot of other categories. I have a book I just ordered off amazon for Labyrinths along with my home testing kit I am awaiting. I have always had a problem trying to lower my pH with the water I have here. No matter what I do with neutralizers and so forth nothing helps. I have had cichlids in the past that tolerated the pH far better but so far these fish seem healthy, I just want to keep them that way. I have a Magnum Hot 250 on the back of the tank, I keep sand with golden clams and some snails and keep it heated to 78 degrees, I only have about 5 smaller sized clams in there right now and 2 snails nothing that takes up too much room. I have live plants with a 5700k light I believe (red sprectrum) and I run it during the exact daylight hours of outside. I do water changes once a week to clean up the top of the sand and I add water when necessary which in this house is about a gallon plus per week. It was suggested by the fish store that because of the adding of the water my pH remains high, even though I have a water softener (?) not sure if that's correct but thought I'd add that in there. Oh and I don't have 2 pearls, one pearl and one is a dwarf, sorry. I may when it comes time for the pleco exchange just have them exchange into a bristol nose pleco so I don't have to keep changing but I'll deal with that when the time comes. Jennifer P.S. I understood what you meant on the other thing. ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 4, 2010 6:45:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction Jennifer, A Big OOPS here. In re-reading what I just wrote, I notice a glaring typo that turns a meaning into just the opposite of what I meant to write. In the third paragraph of my most recent message, the third sentence from the end concerning the Gouramis and their comfort or discomfort in regards the drop in dissolved oxygen should read -- "So when too many of them deplete the dissolved oxygen, it WOULDN'T bother them so much, but their other tankmaters will suffer. Too bad we can't edit these posts after the fact, it would make things so simpler. Hope this clarifies things better. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48886	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/4/2010
Subject: Poe's growth

Ray - An administrator from the dwarf puffer forum feels that Poe has a "massive thyroid goiter" or cancer, of course. But if a goiter, he is saying that in his experience DPs respond to Kent's Iodide formula. I would love to hear your thoughts on this as I charge off to find this formula tomorrow... Thanks so much. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48887	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: Poe's growth

Lainey, You'll remember that I did suggest that Poe may have a tumor, essentially the same or very similar to what the dwarf puffer forum is now saying. As only you could view this fish first hand, and with your observations indicating a possible imbedded snail shell on the inside of the jaw, I saw this as going with what seemed most obvious to you. Realizing that antibiotics alone would not completely eliminate the problem until the presumed snail shell was dislodged, the antibiotic was intended only to keep any infection at bay or at least at a minimum even if not being able to effect a 100% eradication of any bacterial issues, until that time. As this is now turning out to be as I first diagnosed it, then while I can't be completely positive that Kent's Iodide Formula will work, yes it's certainly worth a try as it should be helpful to some degree for this condition; the degree of help depending upon how aggressive this goiter is. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48888	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Hi Jennifer,   Yes, it is good you added about the "water softener", that is important.   If I remember correctly, you are the lady waiting on your test kit?  If so, its very important that you set up a water test baseline of your TAP WATER first.  Please post this information here because it will help Ray and others to help you further.   Adjusting pH is not fun and should only be done at a "no other choice level" type of thing BUT I have done this very thing with Ray's help, its not impossible but you must do frequent water testing and be vigilant of its parameters.  This is why it is so important to test your tap water first.  You must know what you're working with or starting with BEFORE you add or do anything else to it prior to adding it to your aquarium. One closing thought? When you get your test kit also tell us which one your using. I don't know if it was mentioned to you, but most use the one from API.   Bill --- On Wed, 8/4/10, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 9:05 PM Yes thank you, the Innes book was suggested to me by the guy at the fish  store.  He breeds the angels I have in my tank in his home.  While I  have not been able to read the whole book it has given me great insight  in alot of other categories.  I have a book I just ordered off amazon  for Labyrinths along with my home testing kit I am awaiting.  I have  always had a problem trying to lower my pH with the water I have here.   No matter what I do with neutralizers and so forth nothing helps.  I  have had cichlids in the past that tolerated the pH far better but so  far these fish seem healthy, I just want to keep them that way. I  have a Magnum Hot 250 on the back of the tank, I keep sand with golden  clams and some snails and keep it heated to 78 degrees, I only have  about 5  smaller sized clams in there right now and 2 snails nothing that takes  up too much room.  I have live plants with a 5700k light I believe (red  sprectrum) and I run it during the exact daylight hours of outside.  I  do water changes once a week to clean up the top of the sand and I add  water when necessary which in this house is about a gallon plus per  week. It was suggested by the fish store that because of the adding of the water my pH remains high, even though I have a water softener (?) not sure if that's correct but thought I'd add that in there.  Oh  and I don't have 2 pearls, one pearl and one is a dwarf, sorry.  I may  when it comes time for the pleco exchange just have them exchange into a  bristol nose pleco so I don't have to keep changing but I'll deal with  that when the time comes. Jennifer P.S. I understood what you meant on the other thing. ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 4, 2010 6:45:50 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction   Jennifer,  A Big OOPS here.  In re-reading what I just wrote, I notice a glaring typo that turns a meaning into just the opposite of what I meant to write.  In the third paragraph of my most recent message, the third sentence from the end concerning the Gouramis and their comfort or discomfort in regards the drop in dissolved oxygen should read -- "So when too many of them deplete the dissolved oxygen, it WOULDN'T bother them so much, but their other tankmaters will suffer.  Too bad we can't edit these posts after the fact, it would make things so simpler.  Hope this clarifies things better.  Ray </HTML>       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48889	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: Poe's growth

Ray - Poe is acting so totally normal and frisky that I do think it's worth trying something further. I will get the iodide today. I still think it could be an abscess caused by a snail shell or such but the puffer guy is pretty convincing too re the thyroid goiter. I am wondering if snails might provide iodide/iodine to puffers. The reason I wonder is that Poe is not normally a good snail eater and so may have developed iodine deficiency for this reason. The only foods he eats are brine shrimp (not baby), bloodworms and spirulina-brine. So without the snails, he may well be malnourished. And what is interesting, too, is that snails are the ONLY food he will eat currently, so I wonder if he "knows" they have what he needs. Seachem is recommending that as general maintenance I soak the frozen foods in a vitamin mineral supp - is this a good idea? Thank you. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 4:55 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, You'll remember that I did suggest that Poe may have a tumor, > essentially the same or very similar to what the dwarf puffer forum > is now > saying. As only you could view this fish first hand, and with your > observations > indicating a possible imbedded snail shell on the inside of the > jaw, I saw > this as going with what seemed most obvious to you. Realizing that > antibiotics alone would not completely eliminate the problem until > the presumed snail > shell was dislodged, the antibiotic was intended only to keep any > infection > at bay or at least at a minimum even if not being able to effect a > 100% > eradication of any bacterial issues, until that time. As this is > now turning > out to be as I first diagnosed it, then while I can't be completely > positive > that Kent's Iodide Formula will work, yes it's certainly worth a > try as it > should be helpful to some degree for this condition; the degree of > help > depending upon how aggressive this goiter is. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48890	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: New developments in Poe

Well, so much for the tumor theory:) Suddenly, Poe's swelling has changed shape and become extremely red in one area. It looks like it's bleeding under the skin. What's even stranger is that he is suddenly eating much more food. And acting even friskier. Mardel is saying that redness indicates infection; tumors don't turn red. I will keep him on abx and pray... Maybe a foreign body is trying to work its way out? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48891	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: Poe's growth

Lainey, Glad to hear Poe is feeling friskier today. While the iodide is worth a try, if the problem is an abscess caused by a snail shell, I don't know how you'd locate it. Snails would not automatically provide iodine for fish that ate them, unless you were feeding them a food that contained it, like spinach or potato skins. Some hobbyists who raise snails add iodine to the water along with calcium, as both nutrients are needed for good shell growth, but they raise them in separate tanks without fish. To every 10 gallons, they'll add 4 drops of liquid calcium and 1 drop of iodine every day to a tank containing lots of snails (couldn't tell you how many). Some hobbyists add vitamin/mineral supplements to their fish foods as general maintenance, which might not be a bad idea if the fish's diet is not diversified. Under ordinary circumstances, I wouldn't think this is necessary since most good foods already have vitamins in them. Drs Foster & Smith offer a good variety of vitamin supplements designed to be added to fish foods, some which are formulated to add to frozen foods. One last thing, while Dwarf Puffers are freshwater fish, they seem to benefit from some salt added to their water. Some hobbyists will add the token one Tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons, while some others will even double that amount, still not being exceptionally strong unless you have Tetras or Cory's. If you've already added some table salt (which I seem to recall reading that you did), you could make sure you have at least the one Tablespoon per 5 gallons -- and the slight amount of iodine won't hurt the fish but may be beneficial. Try not to get salt with anti-caking agents in it though. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48892	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Ray - Would sea salt help in combination with the antibiotics? Might it draw the foreign object out, if there is one? I know we use it for toothaches and such, and am thinking it might be good but not sure with the abx. Sea salt is all I have but can get other salt if nec. Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Well, so much for the tumor theory:) > > Suddenly, Poe's swelling has changed shape and become extremely red > in one area. It looks like it's bleeding under the skin. What's even > stranger is that he is suddenly eating much more food. And acting > even friskier. > > Mardel is saying that redness indicates infection; tumors don't turn > red. > > I will keep him on abx and pray... > > Maybe a foreign body is trying to work its way out? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48893	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Lainey, I don't recall you ever supplying your pH reading (unless I missed it, or forgot it over time if this was given some time back). As I said, especially in hard water -- Tetracycline loses its effectiveness at a pH of 7.5 and above. It tends to bind with the calcium and magnesium when used in alkaline water of this level. If your pH is near this range, and since you were going to the fish store anyway, why don't you get a more potent antibiotic that will be effective up to pH 8.0, such as the Furan II that I mentioned. For anyone's water with a pH above 8.0, Triple-Sulfa antibiotics should be used. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48894	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

pH is six, Ray. Would love not to go to store 1.5 hrs away but can if nec. Would adding salt raise the pH? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 12:59 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, I don't recall you ever supplying your pH reading (unless I > missed > it, or forgot it over time if this was given some time back). As I > said, > especially in hard water -- Tetracycline loses its effectiveness at > a pH of > 7.5 and above. It tends to bind with the calcium and magnesium when > used in > alkaline water of this level. If your pH is near this range, and > since you > were going to the fish store anyway, why don't you get a more potent > antibiotic that will be effective up to pH 8.0, such as the Furan > II that I > mentioned. For anyone's water with a pH above 8.0, Triple-Sulfa > antibiotics should > be used. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48895	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Lainey -- Better yet -- since there's bleeding UNDER the skin (internally), get Kanamycin Sulfate (Seachem's KanaPlex) since it's one of the very few antibiotics that are absorbable internally. But get the Furan II to have it on hand, while you're there, as it's one of the best broad-spectrum antibiotics you could use for any applications. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48896	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

I am listening, but am resisting furan due to the toxicity and carcinogenicity. But I am listening... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 1:05 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey -- Better yet -- since there's bleeding UNDER the skin > (internally), > get Kanamycin Sulfate (Seachem's KanaPlex) since it's one of the > very few > antibiotics that are absorbable internally. But get the Furan II to > have it > on hand, while you're there, as it's one of the best broad-spectrum > antibiotics you could use for any applications. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48897	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Lainey -- If the pH is 6.0 (acid) then the Tetracycline is still very effective -- against any open sore or wound. But since there's bleeding under the jaw (internally), the Kanamycin is still the best bet (by far). If by chance you can't find that (why don't you phone ahead and ask?), try to locate Naladixic Acid -- as in API's Nalagram; it's just about as effective as it too is readily absorbed internally. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48898	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

No, adding the salt will not raise the pH nor effect the hardness one way or the other, it will only raise your TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) a very slight tad. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48899	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

OK, Ray. I found another store(two hours away) that has the furan and the Seachem abx. I can go there:) But can you explain: Maracyn TC is a topical? You dose in the water column as a topical? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 1:19 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey -- If the pH is 6.0 (acid) then the Tetracycline is still very > effective -- against any open sore or wound. But since there's > bleeding under > the jaw (internally), the Kanamycin is still the best bet (by far). > If by > chance you can't find that (why don't you phone ahead and ask?), > try to locate > Naladixic Acid -- as in API's Nalagram; it's just about as > effective as it > too is readily absorbed internally. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48900	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Do you think adding salt is a good idea? If so: sea salt, table salt, marine salt, epsom salt? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 1:22 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > No, adding the salt will not raise the pH nor effect the hardness > one way > or the other, it will only raise your TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) > a very > slight tad. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48901	From: EM	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Hi Lainey, I don't know if we have exactly what you're looking for, but we do have an extensive selection of Seachem products. Click on www.aqpumps.com and search for Seachem, or look under the water conditioner categories. You may find what you need there. Good luck,   ________________________________ Elliott ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 1:35:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New developments in Poe OK, Ray. I found another store(two hours away)  that has the furan  and the Seachem abx. I can go there:) But can you explain: Maracyn TC is a topical? You dose in the water  column as a topical? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 1:19 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey -- If the pH is 6.0 (acid) then the Tetracycline is still very > effective -- against any open sore or wound. But since there's  > bleeding under > the jaw (internally), the Kanamycin is still the best bet (by far).  > If by > chance you can't find that (why don't you phone ahead and ask?),  > try to locate > Naladixic Acid -- as in API's Nalagram; it's just about as  > effective as it > too is readily absorbed internally. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48902	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Lainey, Any medication that you dose in the water column is NOT topical. A topical medication is one that you apply to the affected site directly -- like swabbing a cut that you might get with iodine. On a fish, you would remove it from the water and apply the medication directly to a sore -- if you were using a topical medication. To the best of my knowledge, Maracyn TC is not a topical medication but one that you dissolve into the water column. I don't know of any topical antibiotics for fish use. It would have to be in the form of a salve to be able to remain on the fish after putting it back into the water, Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48903	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

The token amount of salt to be used (1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons) would not even adversely affect those fish (like Tetras or Cory's) which are known to be sensititive to salt -- so, YES,. I think it's a good idea to add salt with your freshwater Dwarf Puffer, especially at this time, with the infection it seems to have. The bit of salt will boost the electrolyte content of the water, just enough to be of benefit for the fish. As I've already indicated -- Table Salt, but without any anti-caking agents. If you can't find it, use Diamond Crystal canning/pickling salt which has absolutely no additives of any kind. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48904	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

OK, so what do you mean when you say the seachem abx is one of the only ones for internal infections? I guess I'm not following? I went to the store and got it so it would be good if I knew what I were doing with it! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 6:37 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, Any medication that you dose in the water column is NOT > topical. A > topical medication is one that you apply to the affected site > directly -- > like swabbing a cut that you might get with iodine. On a fish, you > would > remove it from the water and apply the medication directly to a > sore -- if you > were using a topical medication. To the best of my knowledge, > Maracyn TC is > not a topical medication but one that you dissolve into the water > column. > I don't know of any topical antibiotics for fish use. It would have > to be > in the form of a salve to be able to remain on the fish after > putting it back > into the water, Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48905	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Lainey, I see you seem to be addressing your question about Seachem abx to me, or so it would seem since you included my post with yours. Nowhere in my post do I see any mention of Seachem abx, NOR have I EVER mentioned Seachem abx. I'm glad that YOU were able to find it, if you think you have a use for it, BUT I'VE never even heard of it. I recommended for you to get Seachem's KanaPlex (Kanamycin Sulfate). EXTREMELY important (and I hope you got it), as it's one of the very few readily absorbed gram-positive, gram-negative (broad spectrum) antibiotics available -- to be able to treat this internal infection. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48906	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Yes, I am sorry, Ray. I got the KanaPlex. Here is what I don't understand: you say this Kanaplex is readily absorbed, but that Maracyn TC is not, is this correct? But you're also saying that Maracyn TC can be used in the water column as an internal treatment. So what is or is not absorbed by the Maracyn versus the Kanaplex? Thanks, and sorry to be not understanding... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:26 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, I see you seem to be addressing your question about Seachem > abx to > me, or so it would seem since you included my post with yours. > Nowhere in > my post do I see any mention of Seachem abx, NOR have I EVER mentioned > Seachem abx. I'm glad that YOU were able to find it, if you think > you have a use > for it, BUT I'VE never even heard of it. I recommended for you to get > Seachem's KanaPlex (Kanamycin Sulfate). EXTREMELY important (and I > hope you got > it), as it's one of the very few readily absorbed gram-positive, > gram-negative (broad spectrum) antibiotics available -- to be able > to treat this > internal infection. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48907	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

Lainey, Yes, both Kanaplex and Maracyn TC are used in the water column, but of the two, only Kanaplex is readily absorbed internally. While Tetracycline Hydrochloride is also a very good broad-spectrum antibiotic (up to pH 7.5), it is not as readily absorbed internally, but is very effective against open wounds -- such as what an imbedded (and most probably broken, for it to have puncture the inside jaw tissue) snail shell would produce and any other external issues (wounds, sores, frayed fins) including disease pathogens such as Columnaris. Ray . </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48908	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

One thing that you got wrong -- I did not say that Maracyn TC can be used as an internal treatment -- INTERNAL, as in -- inside or within the fish's tissues, as opposed to on the external surface of the fish's tissues (skin, fins, eyes, even inside the mouth including the surfaces of the gills but not taken WITHIN the muscle or other tissue of the fish, etc.). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48909	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/5/2010
Subject: Re: New developments in Poe

I've got it now, Ray. I will start the KanaPlex tomorrow as today is the last day of the Maracyn TC. Poe ate much better today and tonight he housed five big blackworms. So I know he's feeling better. The bleeding area looks a bit better too. But I realize that none of his problems can be too good! Thanks for all the help. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 5, 2010, at 11:30 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > One thing that you got wrong -- I did not say that Maracyn TC can > be used > as an internal treatment -- INTERNAL, as in -- inside or within the > fish's > tissues, as opposed to on the external surface of the fish's > tissues (skin, > fins, eyes, even inside the mouth including the surfaces of the > gills but not > taken WITHIN the muscle or other tissue of the fish, etc.). Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48910	From: Kiersten M	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches

Hello, I'm new to the group and I have 2 coati mundis named bobo n nutmeg, a german shepard lab mix named ninja, a cat named felix, and the newest addition to my little personal zoo are 3 bullfrog tadpoles. I caught them out of a pond we swim in and have them in a tank full of plants from the same pond and some lilly pads and all of it has algae on it. Well, the problem is as well as the plantlife I put in the tank it was infested with some unexpected life. Leeches. Is there any thing I can put into the tank to get rid of them? I really am not the type to have a big fish tank unless its got mollies or a low maintenance fish in it so I really have no idea as to details about managing a parasite/leech infested tank without harming the tadpoles. There are also snails in it that came with the plants, but the snails don't bother me. Any input? Thanks guys.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48911	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches

check with your petstore, there is medication --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Kiersten M <ariesstarfire.blue@...> wrote: From: Kiersten M <ariesstarfire.blue@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] bullfrog tadpoles n leeches To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 7:46 AM Hello, I'm new to the group and I have 2 coati mundis named bobo n nutmeg, a german shepard lab mix named ninja, a cat named felix, and the newest addition to my little personal zoo are 3 bullfrog tadpoles. I caught them out of a pond we swim in and have them in a tank full of plants from the same pond and some lilly pads and all of it has algae on it. Well, the problem is as well as the plantlife I put in the tank it was infested with some unexpected life. Leeches. Is there any thing I can put into the tank to get rid of them? I really am not the type to have a big fish tank unless its got mollies or a low maintenance fish in it so I really have no idea as to details about managing a parasite/leech infested tank without harming the tadpoles. There are also snails in it that came with the plants, but the snails don't bother me. Any input? Thanks guys.   ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48912	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches

I found this discussion while doing a search, anyone know if the meds they list are a good suggestion for leeches? http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ponds/msg122039002139.html Amber Nancy Lee wrote: > > check with your petstore, there is medication > > --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Kiersten M <ariesstarfire.blue@... > <mailto:ariesstarfire.blue%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: Kiersten M <ariesstarfire.blue@... > <mailto:ariesstarfire.blue%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] bullfrog tadpoles n leeches > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 7:46 AM > > Hello, > I'm new to the group and I have 2 coati mundis named bobo n nutmeg, a > german shepard lab mix named ninja, a cat named felix, and the newest > addition to my little personal zoo are 3 bullfrog tadpoles. I caught > them out of a pond we swim in and have them in a tank full of plants > from the same pond and some lilly pads and all of it has algae on it. > Well, the problem is as well as the plantlife I put in the tank it was > infested with some unexpected life. Leeches. Is there any thing I can > put into the tank to get rid of them? I really am not the type to have > a big fish tank unless its got mollies or a low maintenance fish in it > so I really have no idea as to details about managing a parasite/leech > infested tank without harming the tadpoles. There are also snails in > it that came with the plants, but the snails don't bother me. Any > input? Thanks guys. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48913	From: ariesstarfire.blue@yahoo.com	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches

I found that informative, the note at the bottom about the chopped liver in burlap. That is definitely a safe solution. Leeches creep me out n I think they're going to latch onto me or something. Lol. Plus it will keep my snails safe, and won't kill off the algae. Ill give that a try. But, if it don't work ill keep searching. I called the pet store and the lady there is familiar with her tanks n what not and she has never really had an issue with this so she is doing some searching on her store sight for me to see if they even have any products she can get to let me try. Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 07:00:15 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] bullfrog tadpoles n leeches I found this discussion while doing a search, anyone know if the meds they list are a good suggestion for leeches? http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ponds/msg122039002139.html Amber Nancy Lee wrote: > > check with your petstore, there is medication > > --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Kiersten M <ariesstarfire.blue@... > <mailto:ariesstarfire.blue%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: Kiersten M <ariesstarfire.blue@... > <mailto:ariesstarfire.blue%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] bullfrog tadpoles n leeches > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 7:46 AM > > Hello, > I'm new to the group and I have 2 coati mundis named bobo n nutmeg, a > german shepard lab mix named ninja, a cat named felix, and the newest > addition to my little personal zoo are 3 bullfrog tadpoles. I caught > them out of a pond we swim in and have them in a tank full of plants > from the same pond and some lilly pads and all of it has algae on it. > Well, the problem is as well as the plantlife I put in the tank it was > infested with some unexpected life. Leeches. Is there any thing I can > put into the tank to get rid of them? I really am not the type to have > a big fish tank unless its got mollies or a low maintenance fish in it > so I really have no idea as to details about managing a parasite/leech > infested tank without harming the tadpoles. There are also snails in > it that came with the plants, but the snails don't bother me. Any > input? Thanks guys. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48914	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Aquavista Unveils the World's First Clock Aquarium

http://www.prweb.com/releases/aquavista/clockaquarium/prweb4317874.htm http://tinyurl.com/2c4gww8 Aquavista Unveils the World's First Clock Aquarium Aquavista brings time to life with its latest patented invention, the AquaClock(tm), the world's first clock aquarium. The patented AquaClock(tm) is a stylish and unique timepiece that is a healthy and happy home for Betta fish. San Jose, CA (PRWEB) August 2, 2010 Following the success of its award-winning wall mounted aquariums, Aquavista Enterprise Inc. introduces its newest invention and concept for keeping time and fish ~ the patented AquaClock(tm) Series-the world's first clock aquariums. Or as some people call it, the world's first aquariums that are clocks. Anyway you look at it, the AquaClock(tm) is a designer clock that tells time and is also a happy home for live swimming fish. Researchers say that watching swimming fish relieves stress and calms the mind. The AquaClock(tm) brings time to life by making timekeeping fun and stylish while providing more of a reason for people to 'keep track of time." Now instead of getting worried as every minute passes on the clock, people can tell time while enjoying the serenity of watching a beautiful fish swim in its new home. Aquavista's AquaClock(tm) Series is the ideal home for betta fish as they only need to be fed 3-4 times a week. With removable lids on top of each clock, all one has to do is add water, fish, and occasionally feed them when necessary. The AquaClock(tm) not only replaces a normal quartz clock, but with the style and quality of Aquavista, wall mounted Betta fish bowls are a thing of the past. "We incorporated style and practicality into the design of the AquaClock(tm)," explains Scott Yen of Aquavista Enterprise, Inc. "It's a good home for Betta fish who prefer smaller environments, and it's also relaxing for people to watch the fish swimming." Aquavista's AquaClock(tm) Series continues the company's tradition of providing aquariums that are easy to set up while also making it easier to care for the fish. Constructed of high quality acrylic, the world's first clock aquariums come available in two unique designs that are sure capture people's attention. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48915	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches

You could sit by the tank with your arm in it, then pull off the leeches and squish them <g>. The liver in burlap seems to be a pretty good idea, but I would not leave it in for more than a few hours, and then do at least a 50% water change for a few days after to ensure what has been put into the water by the raw liver is removed. I'm not sure what the tadpoles eat, but I would think that algae may be a big part of their diet. If I were you, I'd be doing some research on this. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kiersten M Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:47 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] bullfrog tadpoles n leeches Hello, I'm new to the group and I have 2 coati mundis named bobo n nutmeg, a german shepard lab mix named ninja, a cat named felix, and the newest addition to my little personal zoo are 3 bullfrog tadpoles. I caught them out of a pond we swim in and have them in a tank full of plants from the same pond and some lilly pads and all of it has algae on it. Well, the problem is as well as the plantlife I put in the tank it was infested with some unexpected life. Leeches. Is there any thing I can put into the tank to get rid of them? I really am not the type to have a big fish tank unless its got mollies or a low maintenance fish in it so I really have no idea as to details about managing a parasite/leech infested tank without harming the tadpoles. There are also snails in it that came with the plants, but the snails don't bother me. Any input? Thanks guys.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48916	From: ariesstarfire.blue@yahoo.com	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Re: bullfrog tadpoles n leeches

Ya they eat lots of algae and hard boiled egg yolks and spinach. But mainly algae. And no, I don't like the arm in the tank idea. Lol. I make my boyfriend fish them out every time I see one. I won't have any part in them. Lmao. U can stick ur arm in there If u want to tho lol -----Original Message----- You could sit by the tank with your arm in it, then pull off the leeches and squish them <g>. The liver in burlap seems to be a pretty good idea, but I would not leave it in for more than a few hours, and then do at least a 50% water change for a few days after to ensure what has been put into the water by the raw liver is removed. I'm not sure what the tadpoles eat, but I would think that algae may be a big part of their diet. If I were you, I'd be doing some research on this. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- Hello, I'm new to the group and I have 2 coati mundis named bobo n nutmeg, a german shepard lab mix named ninja, a cat named felix, and the newest addition to my little personal zoo are 3 bullfrog tadpoles. I caught them out of a pond we swim in and have them in a tank full of plants from the same pond and some lilly pads and all of it has algae on it. Well, the problem is as well as the plantlife I put in the tank it was infested with some unexpected life. Leeches. Is there any thing I can put into the tank to get rid of them? I really am not the type to have a big fish tank unless its got mollies or a low maintenance fish in it so I really have no idea as to details about managing a parasite/leech infested tank without harming the tadpoles. There are also snails in it that came with the plants, but the snails don't bother me. Any input? Thanks guys. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48918	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Tomorrow, Saturday evening. Re: [AquaticLife] Tonight @ SVAS ~ San

Minor correction. :) -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife <aquaticlifegroup@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Aug 6, 2010 7:02 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Tonight @ SVAS ~ San Jose CA, Dr. Tim Hovanec http://www.siliconvalleyaquariumsociety.com/ http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SiliconValleyAquariumSociety --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > This should be a great talk! > > Dr. Hovanec has come on to our AquaticLife list and answered questions about his products and even given products to one member at one time. He is a wealth of information. His biography below does not list many of his other accomplishements like the Biowheel that many of us use in our tanks. > > Hi Nitrifying bacteria products have the potential to save thousands of fish for new fish keepers. > > > I am going to have to clear my schedule that day to make it to this meeting. > > -Mike > a Moderator and former board member of the SVAS. > > San Jose California for thos that missed it in the title. > > -----Original Message----- > To: SiliconValleyAquariumSociety@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 1:15 pm > Subject: [SVAS] August 7 meeting > > Welcome to the Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meeting on August 7 2010. > > > > We have Timothy Hovanec presents “Fish Nutrition Basics" > > > Healthy fish require more than just good water quality they also need good nutrition. However, the fundamentals of fish nutrition and fish feeds are a mystery to many hobbyists. > > This talk will cover the basic components of fish nutrition, how freshwater fish needs differ from marine fish requirements and end with a lesson on how to decipher labels on fish feeds. > > Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec is the President of DrTim’s Aquatics, LLC. a leading provider of innovative products to the aquarium industry including One and Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria. Dr. Hovanec did his Ph.D. on nitrifying bacteria phylogenetics in aquaria and continues to research the microbial pathways of closed aquatic systems and to develop ‘green’ products for the aquarium industry. > > Previously, Dr. Hovanec was the head of R&D for Marineland Aquarium Products and Instant Ocean for 17 years where he discovered many novel species of nitrifying bacteria. > Past work experience includes managing an aquaculture facility and US Peace Corps volunteer. > > Dr. Hovanec holds over 12 U.S. and foreign patents and has authored numerous papers on aquatic microbiology, water quality and filtration techniques for closed system life-support systems (check them out at http://www.drtimsaquatics.com). Dr. Hovanec regularly speaks at national and international conferences and is a member of numerous scientific organizations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have Timothy Hovanec presents “Fish Nutrition Basics" > > > Healthy fish require more than just good water quality they also need good nutrition. However, the fundamentals of fish nutrition and fish feeds are a mystery to many hobbyists. > > This talk will cover the basic components of fish nutrition, how freshwater fish needs differ from marine fish requirements and end with a lesson on how to decipher labels on fish feeds. > > Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec is the President of DrTim’s Aquatics, LLC. a leading provider of innovative products to the aquarium industry including One and Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria. Dr. Hovanec did his Ph.D. on nitrifying bacteria phylogenetics in aquaria and continues to research the microbial pathways of closed aquatic systems and to develop ‘green’ products for the aquarium industry. > > Previously, Dr. Hovanec was the head of R&D for Marineland Aquarium Products and Instant Ocean for 17 years where he discovered many novel species of nitrifying bacteria. > Past work experience includes managing an aquaculture facility and US Peace Corps volunteer. > > Dr. Hovanec holds over 12 U.S. and foreign patents and has authored numerous papers on aquatic microbiology, water quality and filtration techniques for closed system life-support systems (check them out at http://www.drtimsaquatics.com). Dr. Hovanec regularly speaks at national and international conferences and is a member of numerous scientific organizations. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48920	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Tonight 8/6 Amano Style ~ San Francisco Aquarium Society @ S.F. CA

http://www.sfaquarium.org/drupal/ Meetings are free and open to everyone. August 6, 2010 7:00pm - George Lo Fort Mason Center, Building C, Room C370 Doing it Amano Style George Lo is well regarded throughout California as a leading voice for the promotion and advocacy of Nature Planted Aquariums fashioned after the style popularized by Takashi Amano, known worldwide as the Amano look. Perfecting this style since he was a teenager, George has since participated in the International Planted Aquarium Layout Contest and have ranked 20th place in the world. He has also received a Certificate of Achievement in the Nature Aquarium Seminar which required training with Mr. Amano himself in Niigata, Japan. From 2005, George has been the proprietor of Aqua Forest Aquarium in San Francisco which has garnered praise from both the Chronicle and the LA Times. Please join us for a fascinating look into creating this fantastic setup yourself with a hands-on live demonstration this coming Friday. Please join us and bring a friend. Meetings are free and open to everyone.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48921	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Dropsy {was ~ Re: Pineconing}

Hi Laurie, It sounds like Dropsy, which is a symptom not a condition, and is usually a sign of kidney problems making the fish retain water. It is typically untreatable and fatal in most fish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_dropsy http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_cure_dropsy http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dropsy http://www.e-aquarium.com.au/dropsy.htm http://www.aboutfishonline.com/articles/dropsy.html http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-health/disease-prevention/dropsy-malawi-bloat.aspx http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-health/disease-prevention/dropsy.aspx http://www.fish-disease.net/diseases/dropsy.php http://www.fishdeals.com/fish_diseases/dropsy/ http://www.healthybetta.com/fish-dropsy http://www.nippyfish.net/dropsy.html http://www.petfish.net/articles/Bettas/dropsy.php It can be caused by a variety of pathogens including parasites (you mentioned Ich - could also be velvet) as well as water quality {What were/are your exact parameters (in the tank, I see you posted most of them and) at the source? i.e. Temperature, GH, KH, pH, NO3, NO2, Ammonia/Ammonium, dissolved O2, CO2, Fe, % organic solids, bio load # & size of fish & health of the plants as well as any treatments, conditioners, buffers, etc. you add.} You said you have read that these fishes prefer a lower pH & yours is (very?) high @ pH 8.2, to me low means 6.5 for tetras, too about 5 for discus, yours sounds more like cichlids. In my planted tank during lights on, the CO2 solenoid shuts off @ a pH of 7 and at night is around 7.5 and those #s are from using local tap water that was treated and aged, I know RO is usually more acidic. You mentioned you have an RO filter on your sink - I would highly recommend you use only RO water in the water change and see how much it lowers the pH (not knowing what your other source parameters are as well if it includes chlorine/Chloramine which I would treat and age for a minimum 48 hour period in a separate holding tank that is filtered & heated) I do NOT recommend replacing your very old filter sponges, only squeeze/rinse them in used aquarium water during each water change - which I suggest increasing the percentage to maybe 50% if possible, at least a few times until all fish are healthy. You said you have had female bettas pinecone before. Did they recover? Were they the only fish with that symptom at that time? I only ask because I recently lost a Male White Half-moon Betta with Dropsy even though all the other fish show no symptoms so far. Have you had success breeding Bettas? I wanted to breed the pair I had, but as I said the male died. Is it better to have several Females for the male to choose from? I have never heard of fluorite absorbing medication, and have only recently purchased it to add to the old Eco-complete in my planted tank - so I am not that familiar with it, but it seems unlikely. re: but could it be too much food? I have a mostly White Cloud Mtn. Minnows in my 55 gallon planted tank, the Albino/Gold ones (presumably the females) are very fat/bloated looking and I too was wondering if they were being overfed, so I reduced the amount of food and skip a day occasionally, so far they have not slimmed up yet - so I am not sure what is happening. As far as I know, the general rule is only feed what the fish will completely consume in less than a few minutes, if any food is left over - clean it out and keep reducing the amount until there are no visible left overs. re: Could she be egg-bound? I was wondering the same about my tank. I have not seen my minnows lay eggs yet, however the Neon Tetras do scatter eggs almost daily. So I do not know if the girth is normal or has too many eggs. I do not know anything about Dario fish as I have not had any, I actually thought it said Danio at first. Do you know the Species/Variety of fish the Dario is? here are a few links ~ [Scarlet Badis or Badis Bengalensis (Dario dario) - were the most popular search results for "dario fish"] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freshwater_aquarium_fish_species http://fish.mongabay.com/data/India.htm http://www.future-digital.com/aquarium_info/info_freshwater_tropical_fish/dario_dario_7.html http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=scarletbadis http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?ID=60260 http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=reddario http://theaquariumwiki.com/Dario_dario http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Dario_dario.php http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer.com/wiki/Dario_dario http://www.eol.org/pages/25524 Hope that helps, Aaron p.s. I know I probably asked more ?s than I answered, I am not an expert by any means, still learning and very curious, kepp us posted on your progress --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > Now that I have studied her a bit, it looks like she may be suffering from the same thing that the glass cats had. Her pinecone appearance is not uniform - not all scales are lifted. I believe it may be something under the scales - with the glass cats, there were white spots, eventually sprinkled throughout the entire body. As I said before, I treated with rid ich +, which did not seem to help, then as per some knowledgable person's suggestion, maracyn 2 - 2 cycles, again with no improvement. > > The substrate in the tank is flourite - could it have absorbed the medication? > No carbon in the filter, only very old filter sponges. Should they be replaced? > > > Here is a link to the previous thread on the glass cats: > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/48326 > > ~ Laurie > > > Should have added a few details: She is eating mosquito larvae and baby crs, and swims out to receive the mosquito larvae from the turkey baster as she always has. Her color is pale now. Last water change was 20% two weeks ago. Usually done weekly - out of town last weekend. > I have plugged the heater back in, and will do a 20% water change now. I read that these fishes prefer a lower ph - I have an RO filter on my sink - should I use a bit of RO water in the water change? > > I have had female bettas pinecone before if they did not spawn, or maybe it was too many blackworms. I no longer feed blackworms, but could it be too much food? > > > ~ Laurie > > > My female dario looks like a pinecone! Please, is there anything I can do to save her? She is eating alright, and looks ok otherwise, although her pectoral fins are moving very fast. > > I have been having some issues with this tank. I lost 2 glass cats, with strange white spots. I treated with rid ich +, then maracyn 2 with no improvement. > > Last week 1 endler was fine one day, dead the next. No signs of anything on him. > > Everyone else looks fine - 2 male dario ( one male only harasses her when she is in his territory - the other is submissive), 2 male endlers, 2 otos, 2 cardinals, 2 amano shrimp, several rcs. Moderately planted tank. 20 gallons. > > I did recently turn off the heater, which lowered the temperature. I had tried to adjust the heater to a lower temp, as it kept the tank between 82 and 84 degrees farenheit, but it would not adjust. Since it is summer now, and the house stays around 78 degrees, I thought I could disconnect the heater. Could this have caused the pineconing? Could she be egg-bound? > > Parameters: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20, gh 16, kh 7, temp 76. > > Please help me save this rare female dario. I would like to take everyone else > out of this tank and try breeding. > > Thanks! > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48922	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: Sacramento Aquarium Society, 8/7 Anthony Tu - "Keeping the Aquarium

http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/meetings/meetings.html 8/7 Anthony Tu - "Keeping the Aquarium Hobby Alive" Next Meeting Saturday, August 7th Program: Anthony Tu - "Keeping the Aquarium Hobby Alive" Anthony Tu has been involved with tropical hobby more than 28 years. At twelve years of age, he started to breed beta fish which he caught them from a neighbor pond in South East Asia. His passionate of African Cichlids began in 1995 and he joined the PCCA since 1998. In fact, he joined the ACA (American Cichlids Association) in 2000 and from there he has been specialized of keeping and breeding Cyphotilapia. He currently maintains nearly 4000 gallons fish room with 11 variants of Cyphotilapia and many exotic African cichlids, shrimps and snails. Last April 2008, he was awarded as a Master Breeder from the PCCA's Breeder Awards Program. He wrote several frontosa and African cichlids articles and those articles republished on several fish club journals in the U.S. He currently holds two world breeding records: Neolamprologus Tetracanthus "Magara", Synodontis Pectricola. Currently, Anthony is a web master chair and a member of Board of Directors of the Pacific Coast Cichlids Association. He gave several talks at major fish clubs in bay area such as: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association, San Francisco Aquarium Society and Silicon Valley Aquarium Society. All his lectures are using PowerPoint, video clips and most of all pictures in his lectures are taken by him. Meetings start at 7pm. Click here for driving directions. Family fun - kids welcome! The Sacramento Aquarium Society (SAS) is a local fish club that meets at 7:00 pm on the first Saturday of each month. Bringing Aquarium Hobbyists of the Greater Sacramento Valley Together Since 1952 We are a non-profit organization with an objective to encourage and further the interest of the care and breeding of tropical fish and to promote the exchange of information between amateur aquarists. Meetings typically include a guest speaker, bowl show, raffle, attendance prize, and an auction which includes fish, aquatic plants, and aquarium supplies. Many of the auction items go for less than wholesale prices. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S_A_S/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Grace" <ge_martin2@...> wrote: > > http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/meetings/meetings.html > > > "7/3 Kevin Kelley - "Economics of an Aquarium Society" and > > "First Annual SAS Fuzzy Fish Contest" > > The Sacramento Aquarium Society meets at 7 PM on the first Saturday of each month. Meetings typically include a guest speaker, bowl show, raffle, attendance prize, and an auction which includes fish, aquatic plants, and aquarium supplies. Many of the auction items go for less than wholesale prices. > Meeting Location > > Round Table Pizza > 9500 Greenback Lane > Folsom, CA > (916) 989-1133" > > > > http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/ > > http://www.carespreservation.com/ >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48923	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/6/2010
Subject: 8/14 Pacific Coast Cichlid Association (PCCA), San Jose, CA

http://www.cichlidworld.com/ Social Hour starts at 7:30 pm Meeting starts at 8:00 pm August 2010 Speaker: Mr. Anthony Tu "Keeping and breeding Altolamprologus" The Pacific Coast Cichlid Association(PCCA) is proud to announce our very own Mr. Anthony Tu, as our speaker on August 14, 2010. Mr. Anthony Tu has been involved with tropical hobby more than 28 years. At twelve years of age, he started to breed beta fish which he caught them from a neighbor pond in South East Asia. His passionate of African Cichlids began in 1995 and he joined the PCCA since 1998. In fact, he joined the ACA (American Cichlids Association) in 2000 and from there he has been specialized of keeping and breeding Cyphotilapia. He currently maintains nearly 4000 gallons fish room with 11 variants of Cyphotilapia and many exotic African cichlids, shrimps and snails. Last April 2008, he was awarded as a Master Breeder from the PCCA's Breeder Awards Program. Mr. Anthony Tu wrote several frontosa and African cichlids articles and those articles republished on several fish club journals in the U.S. He currently holds two world breeding records: Neolamprologus Tetracanthus "Magara", Synodontis Pectricola. Currently, Mr. Anthony Tu is a web master chair and a member of Board of Directors of the Pacific Coast Cichlids Association. He gave several talks at major fish clubs in bay area such as: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association, San Francisco Aquarium Society and Silicon Valley Aquarium Society. All his lectures are using PowerPoint, video clips and most of all pictures in his lectures are taken by him. Please join us on August 14, 2010, at 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd, San Jose, CA 95129. http://www.cichlidworld.com/meetinginfo.html The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month. Meetings are held a the Round Table Pizza located at 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd in San Jose, California. Meetings begin at 7:30pm and run until the auction is over (sometimes as late as 12am). Auction table viewing begins at 7:30 pm. There are usually hundreds of bags so bring a pen and paper to record the bag numbers you want to bid on. Bidding is open to non-members as well as members. The auction often contains hundreds of fish and lasts several hours. Fish auctioned are provided by attendees, donations from local fish dealers, and from the PCCA itself which brings in rarer species to introduce them to association members. At 7:30pm the meeting starts with a presentation by an expert in the hobby and usually lasts about one hour. The PCCA has hosted many of the worlds most renowned names in the hobby including; Ad Konings, Paul Loiselle, and many many more. Founded in August of 1980, the Pacific Coast Cichlid Association exists to meet the needs of the west coast cichlid hobbyist. By-Laws were constructed in 1983-1984 and the PCCA was incorporated as a non-profit corporation under the laws of the state of California on January 30, 1985. Since inception, the PCCA has grown rapidly from a local society of 20 members to one of national scope, with members all over the world. The PCCA P.O. Box 28145 San Jose, Ca 95159-8145 http://www.cichlidworld.com/membershipinfo.html --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com: > > http://www.cichlidworld.com/ > > the Pacific Coast Cichlid Association(PCCA) is proud to announce > > July 10, 2010: > Mr. David Soares from Sisters, Oregon, as our speaker on > "Apistogramma" > > Time: 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm > > Location: Round Table Pizza, > 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd, San Jose, CA, 95129 > > The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48924	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: 8/21 San Francisco Bay Area Killifish Association (BAKA) S.J. CA

Anyone interested in killies? ~ * Please note the late start time: 8 p.m. to 11 p.m. Location: Round Table Pizza 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd San Jose, CA 95129 Program: "Lampeyes" a presentation by Thuan Nguyen If you have fish for the auction, please contact info@... and they will be added to this notice. San Francisco Bay Area Killifish Association BAKA's purpose is to support and promote the killifish hobby in our region, the nation, and the world. Through our activities, we aim to educate our members and the public, and to foster a caring conservation attitude to help preserve these unusual fishes, everywhere. The News section will provide information about our meetings and current events and will indicate ongoing activities that may interest you The Forum section is a public bulletin board that allows you to post questions and view our gallery of killifish photos. If you prefer email to a BBS, you can also subscribe to the BAKA Email list; please lookup the left-hand menu on the home page. The Articles section currently contains lists of fish being maintained by some BAKA members. (The listings are only visible to registered users of our site.) We do plan to add additional killie articles over time.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48925	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Annual National NANFA Convention & Desert Conservation Fieldtrip (DS

http://sfbaka.net/modules/agendax/index.php?op=view&id=69 Thursday October 14 - Sunday 17, 2010 North American Native Fishes Association(NANFA) http://www.nanfa.org/ The Desert Springs Action Committee(DSAC) http://www.pupfish.net/dsac/ San Francisco Bay Area Killifish Association(BAKA)desert killifish conservation trip. Everybody is invited. If you are camping out, here are some guidelines: http://sfbaka.net/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=2 Here is a message from Peter Unmack: G'day folks, this years DSAC trip to Ash Meadows will be a bit different as it will be combined with the annual national NANFA convention. As a result several things will be different. I urge each of you to look at the convention webpage to get familiar with the details. http://www.nanfa.org/convention/2010.shtml The big difference is the dates will be a little different, activities in Ash Meadows will mostly be conducted on Thur and Fri, Sat we will have talks over the Death Valley NP headquarters (the list of speakers is on the webpage). Sunday lunch time I will lead a tour away from Ash Meadows to visit a number of habitats by and north of Las Vegas for 2.5 days. Our activities within Ash Meadows will be similar to before, although there are some minor changes that I'll probably make. I don't really know how many folks are likely to attend, but it could be anything from 25 to maybe 40, but it could be more too. One downside that comes with this being a convention is that there is a registration fee. NANFA will be providing most of the meals (breakfast, lunch up to Sunday breakfast and a BBQ style dinner Friday night). We will also be having a day of presentations from various biologists on southwestern fishes. In terms of food we are thinking of having two lunches in the form of military style ready to eat meals and another one with sandwich fixings. For breakfast there will be stuff ranging from cereal, toast, eggs, probably bacon, pancakes, waffles. We will still be able to camp at the refuge headquarters. I have also booked a group of rooms at Longstreet with a discount rate. The number you have to quote to get that rate is listed on the convention webpage. I would book as early as possible if you plan to stay there.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48926	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: 8/20/10 IBC International Fall Show hosted by California Betta Socie

http://www.cbsbettas.org/shows.html International Betta Congress(IBC) http://www.ibcbettas.org/pages/shows/details/53-cbs-fall-2010.html The show and auction/raffle are free and open to the public. 2010 IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society (CBS) Show Date: August 20 - 21, 2010 Show Location: Walnut Creek Marriott http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/oakwc-walnut-creek-marriott/ 2355 North Main Street Walnut Creek, CA 94596 1-925-934-2000 Schedule: Friday, 20 August 2010 * Noon until finished: Check in and Show Setup * Noon-5pm: Cash table open for fish sales * 7pm-9pm: Judging seminars #1 and #2 Saturday, 21 August 2010 * 8am–noon: Judging (judges and volunteers only) * 8am-noon: Judging seminar #3 in the show room * 12pm–2:30pm: Show room opens to the public * 12pm-auction end: Cash table open for fish sales * 4pm–6:30pm: Auction and Raffle (including Breeder's Cup Raffle) The show and auction/raffle are free and open to the public. Show Chairs: Christine Tanner and Jeremy Waugh email Christine at: bellica at comcast dot net Head Judge: TBA Judging Seminars: We will be offering all three IBC Judging Seminars at this show. Friday night at 7pm we will present the two slideshows on show standards. Seminar #3 will be in the show room on Saturday morning starting at 8am and involves shadowing a certified judge while he judges the show. If you are interested in attending, please contact Christine via email before the show. Show Mail In: Christine Tanner 104 Charles Lane Danville, CA 94526 925-683-2124 - Pre-registration is required for this show! Please email a copy of your entry form to Christine Tanner (bellica at comcast dot net) by Wed August 18, 2010. - Note: Please do NOT label your shipping boxes as "Live Fish". We've had issues in the past with certain shipping companies with boxes labeled in this manner. - Mail-in entries need to arrive no later than 5PM Thursday August 19, 2010. - Include in box: fish, completed entry form, bags for return, entry fees, and return postage. Show Fish: CBS will need to receive your entry form, fees, and return postage (if necessary) with your fish. Return postage and entry fee cannot be deducted from auction proceeds. You further agree not to hold CBS responsible for lost or dead fish. Entry fee for individual fish is $2.00 and $3.00 for pairs. Please make checks payable to: California Betta Society Include a return label, entry form, empty bags and heat pack (if desired) with your fish. Walk-ins: Please notify the show chair that you are coming. Walk-in entrants MUST pre-register as noted above. Walk-ins must be benched by the entrant. Walk-ins must arrive by 5pm Friday August 20, 2010. All walk-ins must either pick up fish after the show or provide an insulated shipping box, bags, shipping address, and return postage. Auction: Auction fish sent to the show must arrive by 5PM Friday August 20, 2010, and marked Auction or Auction Only. Auction fish should include return postage - which will be refunded if unused. A maximum of 12 Auction-only fish will be accepted from any breeder. You are welcome to send as many fish as you would like for our Cash Sales Table (see below). There is no limit on the number of show entries you can put up for auction. Our shows have very competitive auctions with 50+ auction attendees. Unless otherwise marked, auction fish are posted at a minimum bid of $3.00 for show fish and $2.00 for Auction Only fish. Fish not sold will be returned to entrant unless otherwise stated. Non-return fish will be sold to CBS Club Members Only with a starting bid of $1.00. Auction is for Bettas only (any species) and aquarium plants. Dry goods (tanks, food, etc) are only accepted for walk-in (no mail ins). Auction split (rounded to nearest $1.00 to club's benefit): * Show Fish/Auction - 75% seller and 25% for CBS * Auction Only and Cash Sales Table - 50% seller and 50% for CBS * Plants and Dry goods (tanks, food, etc) - 50% seller and 50% for CBS Cash Sales: The Cash Sales table will be open Friday from noon til 5pm, and on Saturday from noon until the auction ends. We will display bagged fish for show attendees to purchase for the price marked on the bag. This will be in addition to the auction. Breeders can send as many fish as they wish for the Cash Sales table. Please note your selling price. Please clearly mark Cash Sales fish and price on your registration form, or you may send a separate sheet noting price (please number your bags) and price the fish directly on the bag. Be sure to include return postage for unsold Cash Sales table fish; any unused portion will be refunded. If return postage is not included, the fish will be considered donations to the club and not returned. Minimum price for Cash Sales = $1. Downloads: Show Entry Form - entry form is on one tab, class list on the second tab. Shipping Instructions - Word Document Even if you can't come, send your fish for the Show or Action Only. Your fish want to come to California! ©2010 California Betta Society - All Rights Reserved.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48927	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: 2010 AGA Aquatic Gardeners Convention, November 11-14, 2010, Fort La

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/convention.html http://forum.aquatic-gardeners.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1312 We are proud to announce that the 2010 AGA Aquatic Gardeners Convention will be held the weekend of November 11-14, 2010, at Fort Lauderdale Sheraton near the Fort Lauderdale Airport. http://www.starwoodmeeting.com/StarGroupsWeb/booking/reservation?id=1003105726&key=A89C9 We have an incredible speaker line-up. At this time, we have on-board Claus Christensen who will be doing two presentations (one at the banquet), Ghazanfar Ghori, Dr. Mike Kane from the University of Florida, Karen Randall and Jason Baliban. Talk topics and bios will be added soon -- check back as convention time approaches! Tour of Florida Aquatic Nurseries Friday morning at 9! The convention is about 15 minutes away from Florida Aquatic Nurseries ("FAN"), and they have graciously arranged for a tour of their facilities on Friday morning. Transportation to FAN is on your own -- please carpool or cab-pool and see the map in the right panel for directions. Accordingly, we've kept the fee super low. On Friday afternoon, Dr. Mike Kane will lead a workshop on Tissue Culture. There is an extra fee for this workshop; participants will get to keep the cultures they inoculate! Register early if you are planning on attending the workshop, because space is extremely limited. Friday night will include the third Iron Aquascaper, once again sponsored by Aquarium Design Group. Watch two masters go at it in a head-to-head spontaneous competition using only the aquaria and plants given to them. Saturday night will feature our banquet and 2010 AGA International Aquascaping Contest awards. for more info on the food selection, click here. Between talks, chat with fellow hobbyists and speakers. After the evenings' events, kick back and enjoy a snack or beverage in the Hospitality Suite. Sunday, spend your hard-earned cash on the largest all-aquatic-plant auction in the country. Find some new species, or load up on something you haven't seen in a while. [info for bidders] [info for sellers] One of the side benefits to bringing plants for the auction is the AGA's very generous split policy -- 70/30. If you sell $85 worth of plants at the auction, you've made back your registration cost... if you can resist the temptation to buy something else. :) You do not have to register for the convention to bid! More information about the speakers and events can be found on the forum. Hotel info: http://www.starwoodmeeting.com/StarGroupsWeb/booking/reservation?id=1003105726&key=A89C9 The room registration page (separate reservation through Sheraton, not part of convention registration!) contains details on the hotel location and nearby attractions. You can also call (800) 325-3535 and ask for reservations in the Aquatic Gardeners' Association block. Note there is a deadline of October 22 for hotel registration to guarantee the AGA discount rate! Tentative Convention Schedule - subject to change Thursday all events in the Hospitality Suite 6:00-9:00 PM General Registration 9:00-whenever Bagging party Friday 9:00 AM - 11:00 AM Tour of FAN starts. Please arrange for transportation. We will have an open forum topic for cab-share and carpooling. 1:00-5:00 PM Tissue culture workshop with Dr. Michael Kane General registration / vendor room 7:00-9ish Iron Aquascaper Competition sponsored by Aquarium Design Group ? Hospitality Suite Open Saturday 8:30 AM - 9:00 PM General Registration / Vendor Room 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM AM Presentations (order and timing TBD): Claus Christensen, Mike Kane, Ghazanfar Ghori, Jason Baliban, et al. 6:30 - 11 PM Banquet approx. 8:00 Aquascaping Contest winners approx. 9:00 Claus Christensen banquet presentation Hospitality Suite Open Sunday 9:00 AM - ? Auction

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48928	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: 11th Annual AGA International Aquascaping Contest *Closing date is

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2010.cgi The Aquatic Gardeners Association(AGA) www.aquatic-gardeners.org/ http://forum.aquatic-gardeners.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1355 ( view last years winners here ~ http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2009.cgi ) Fellow Aquascapers, It is with great pleasure that the Aquatic Gardeners Association announces the opening of its 11th Annual International Aquascaping Contest. The contest showcases some of the most striking and unique aquascapes the world over and introduces the newest styles and designs emerging in the hobby. We hope to have another record turnout for the 2010 aquascaping contest and look forward to seeing the aquascapes entered into the contest. Closing date is September 25th! Winners of the contest will be announced in November, 2010 at the AGA Convention in Ft. Lauderdale and on this website. You may submit entries via the internet which makes for easier processing. Several points need to be emphasized regarding the contest: 1. Your photo(s) cannot be included in the contest unless you manually sign a Photo Release form. A digital signature is insufficient. However, a manually signed form can be mailed or scanned-and-emailed per the instructions on the website. 2. Please use your legal name. 3. Cash awards to winners will be made only via PayPal. 4. Please do not add copyrights or signatures to your photos. Please do not add borders to the individual photos or create a mosaic of photos of the aquascapes. As a final note, the success of the contest depends on the efforts of the contest volunteers, and this year is no exception. For this year's contest to be equally successful and meet the standards set in previous years, the AGA again needs volunteers to help with a wide variety of duties required to make the contest run smoothly. We are in need of some individuals to take the lead of four basic committees: Ribbons, Advertising, Graphic Design, Sponsorship, and finally finding Judges. Except for procuring judges, the duties will take little time and effort, but your efforts will be an important part in making this contest a success. So, come join in the fun!! We look forward to seeing the many wonderful aquascapes in the coming months and are sure we will be as surprised with some of the aquascapes as we have been in the past. Sincere Regards, Bailin Shaw Aquascaping Contest Chair

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48931	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: MTS and electrical (over)load

My multiple tank syndrome is acting up again and I am concerned about how much stuff I have plugged into the outlets in my fish/bird room. It is 36 by 12 feet with lots of outlets along the walls:) However, I have each outlet jammed with stuff - computer and printer, phone machine, five power compacts for my bird aviary, and (drumroll) seven aquariums with heaters/lights/filters on each. My electrician is not a call-back guy, so I would have to try and get him over here to check this, but he's not really a drop-by guy either unless it's something serious. He's the only game in town on the mountain where I live so I'm stuck with him. So how would I know if I am overloading the circuit in this room? John and I think it's all the same circuit. There are no dimming lights, if that tells us anything... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48932	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load

Lainey, Seldom are all the outlets in one room on the same circuit in my experience. To test this, turn on everything, then locate the breaker or fuse box and turn that circuit off. If you don't know which one, and who really does, you may need to do some experimenting until you find something that turns off at least some of the stuff in the room. Here, in my office at home, we have two circuits covering the room. Unfortunately, the other part of one is also heavily used, and we do occasionally over use that circuit with the result of the breaker tripping. Cure is to turn something off in the other room, and flip the breaker. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 11:22 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] MTS and electrical (over)load My multiple tank syndrome is acting up again and I am concerned about how much stuff I have plugged into the outlets in my fish/bird room. It is 36 by 12 feet with lots of outlets along the walls:) However, I have each outlet jammed with stuff - computer and printer, phone machine, five power compacts for my bird aviary, and (drumroll) seven aquariums with heaters/lights/filters on each. My electrician is not a call-back guy, so I would have to try and get him over here to check this, but he's not really a drop-by guy either unless it's something serious. He's the only game in town on the mountain where I live so I'm stuck with him. So how would I know if I am overloading the circuit in this room? John and I think it's all the same circuit. There are no dimming lights, if that tells us anything... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48933	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load

Hi Lainey!   I am NOT an electrician as you know, BUT you are correct in addressing this problem right away for a number of reasons.  Safety wise, we will assume you have circuit breakers and NOT fuses in your home.   This means an overloaded circuit will simply trip the breaker, but this should cause you to worry right there.  Next, its not the plugs or units plugged in or even how many outlets you have.  Its how many outlets are on the SAME CIRCUIT, that where the chance of over load and possible fire comes in.  Unfortunately for you, that electrician is the only one who can determine all of this.  If too many outlets are on the same circuit, he can simply add more circuits.  Only a qualified electrician should handle this.  A qualified and licensed electrician, because of your home insurance.  If this guy is not licensed, and a fire should occur, you're chances of securing any kind of insurance payment are about null!   In your favor you do have this:  Regardless of how many plugs you have, you are NOT drawing current from each and everyone of them at once.  You do need to get this situation checked out. If you carefully explain this to your electrician he will pay you a visit, especially if you should happen to mention the word "fire" somewhere in the conversation!    I should also tell you that this testing is not cheap and is very time consuming because in order to correct the problem, he must first determine which and how many outlets are connected or "ganged" together and what their approximate current draw is on your lines.  Next, if he does find over-load or the potential for it, those new circuits will not be cheap to run.  Remember, he must do this in most cases, inside or through preexisting walls. Good Luck,   Bill --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] MTS and electrical (over)load To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 11:22 AM My multiple tank syndrome is acting up again and I am concerned about  how much stuff I have plugged into the outlets in my fish/bird room.  It is 36 by 12 feet with lots of outlets along the walls:) However, I  have each outlet jammed with stuff - computer and printer, phone  machine, five power compacts for my bird aviary, and (drumroll) seven  aquariums with heaters/lights/filters on each. My electrician is not a call-back guy, so I would have to try and get  him over here to check this, but he's not really a drop-by guy either  unless it's something serious. He's the only game in town on the  mountain where I live so I'm stuck with him. So how would I know if I am overloading the circuit in this room?  John and I think it's all the same circuit. There are no dimming lights, if that tells us anything... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48934	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load

:) One time my telephone pole was on fire and I called my electrician and actually spoke to him about the fire and it took half an hour for him to come, and he was only a few doors down the road! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 7, 2010, at 12:08 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > If you carefully explain this to your electrician he will pay you a > visit, especially if you should happen to mention the word "fire" > somewhere in the conversation! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48935	From: EM	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load

Hi Lainey, First thing you should do is to go to your circuit breaker box and determine which breaker controls the circuit in the room. Note the number on the breaker itself (15,25,50,etc). That is rating of the breaker and represents the capacity of circuit in amperes. If the circuit is called on to supply more amps the rated amount, the breaker will "trip" and shut off the circuit. Then, I would manually trip the breaker by flipping the breaker switch, and then noting which outlets in the room are affected. If they all are, then the outlets are indeed all on one circuit. You might also check to see if that breaker controls any other appliances/TVs/outlets in the rest of the house. Write your results down for reference, and turn the breaker back on. While the circuit breaker will protect the interior wiring in the house from overloads, it will NOT protect extension cords or power strips connected to the outlets. You should be very careful about what is connected and where. If you are using extension cords, you might want to do a quick check by turning all devices connected through the extension ON for a few minutes, and feel the extension cord. If it feels warm or worse, shut off the devices and get heavier duty extension cords, or rearrange and reconnect your stuff to better share the load between extension cords and power strips. All that being said, 7 heaters, lights and filters plus your other stuff all on one home circuit would seem to be too much. Your typical circuit might have a capacity of 15 amps. (remember, check your breaker) This roughly translates to 1800 watts. Add the wattage of your heaters, lights, filters plus other equipment you have, and imagine if they were all on at the same time. Would this exceed the capacity of your home circuit? Finally, call your electrician and have him take a look. Tell him you might have an overload situation that you'd like him to check out. It's critically important that you have a professional look at your situation.   ________________________________ Elliott ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, August 7, 2010 11:22:29 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] MTS and electrical (over)load   My multiple tank syndrome is acting up again and I am concerned about how much stuff I have plugged into the outlets in my fish/bird room. It is 36 by 12 feet with lots of outlets along the walls:) However, I have each outlet jammed with stuff - computer and printer, phone machine, five power compacts for my bird aviary, and (drumroll) seven aquariums with heaters/lights/filters on each. My electrician is not a call-back guy, so I would have to try and get him over here to check this, but he's not really a drop-by guy either unless it's something serious. He's the only game in town on the mountain where I live so I'm stuck with him. So how would I know if I am overloading the circuit in this room? John and I think it's all the same circuit. There are no dimming lights, if that tells us anything... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48936	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Dublin CA ~ Koi Sitter Needed

San Francisco East Bay Area House Sold, Need Someone to Take Koi & Turtles for a few months until New House & Pond are Built. If Interested/Available please Contact Off-List for Details Thank You, Aaron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48937	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: Dublin CA ~ Koi Sitter Needed

I'm sorry I cant help you as I live in NJ, but I see you said koi and turtles. I was wondering if you could tell me how turtles and koi get along? I have a red eared slider that would love to be in the pond with the koi and goldfish, but I was afraid he might eat the babies. Can you tell me how that works out for you? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010 1:12 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Dublin CA ~ Koi Sitter Needed To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > San Francisco East Bay Area > > House Sold, Need Someone to Take Koi & Turtles for a few months > until New House & Pond are Built. > > If Interested/Available please Contact Off-List for Details > > Thank You, > Aaron > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48938	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load

Understood! BUT! That's still better than not at all! Bill --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] MTS and electrical (over)load > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 12:54 PM > :) > > One time my telephone pole was on fire and I called my > electrician  > and actually spoke to him about the fire and it took half > an hour for  > him to come, and he was only a few doors down the road! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 7, 2010, at 12:08 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > If you carefully explain this to your electrician he > will pay you a  > > visit, especially if you should happen to mention the > word "fire"  > > somewhere in the conversation! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48939	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: Dublin CA ~ Koi Sitter Needed

Hi Betti, I is not actually my Pond, it is a friends who is away on Vacation for a couple of weeks and I am House/Dog/Koi Sitting right now. The Turtles are supposed to eat the small "feeder" fish (goldfish & carp), but either eat too slow or the fish reproduce too fast because there are a lot of them, but the turtles - also Red Ears as you have, do not seem to bother the Larger Koi, so far there have been no Koi Babies spotted, perhaps the Turtles (or other fish/birds/Raccoons) ate them (which seems unlikely unless they are a particular favorite compared to the abundant goldfish & carp fry/juveniles) or the Koi may not have had any yet, not sure really --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, betti@... wrote: > > I'm sorry I cant help you as I live in NJ, but I see you said koi and turtles. I was wondering if you could tell me how turtles and koi get along? I have a red eared slider that would love to be in the pond with the koi and goldfish, but I was afraid he might eat the babies. Can you tell me how that works out for you? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" > Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010 1:12 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Dublin CA ~ Koi Sitter Needed > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > San Francisco East Bay Area > > > > House Sold, Need Someone to Take Koi & Turtles for a few months > > until New House & Pond are Built. > > > > If Interested/Available please Contact Off-List for Details > > > > Thank You, > > Aaron > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48940	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Tonight, Saturday 8/7 @ San Jose CA, Dr. Tim Hovanec (SVAS)

This is why I was confused - SFAS & SVAS are 1 letter off and 1 day apart from each other, and then there is the SAS on the same day as SVAS but still 1 letter away (I've been to all of them as well as the SAPS - even it too has an "S" on either end with an "A" in the middle somewhere) Yes, I may be a bit Dyslexic also SFAS - 1st Fri. http://www.sfaquarium.org/drupal/ SVAS - 1st Sat. http://www.siliconvalleyaquariumsociety.com/ SAS - 1st Sat. http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/ SAPS - 1st Tues. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sacaquaticplant I have (partially) Updated the Group's Calendar http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/cal try clicking on [Event Lists] to see them all lined up Hopefully it will help reduce my confusion level a bit Thanks, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > Minor correction. :) > > Tomorrow, Saturday evening. (not Tonight) @ SVAS ~ San Jose CA, Dr. Tim Hovanec > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Fri, Aug 6, 2010 7:02 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tonight @ SVAS ~ San Jose CA, Dr. Tim Hovanec >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48941	From: Ray	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load

Lainey, Was it all your electrical appliances that was the cause of the telephone pole fire < g >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > :) > > One time my telephone pole was on fire and I called my electrician > and actually spoke to him about the fire and it took half an hour for > him to come, and he was only a few doors down the road! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 7, 2010, at 12:08 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > If you carefully explain this to your electrician he will pay you a > > visit, especially if you should happen to mention the word "fire" > > somewhere in the conversation! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48942	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Re: MTS and electrical (over)load

Ya, right. No, that was my prior house in the same town. Old house had several fires/close calls due to bad wiring, new house is six years old and the wiring should be ship shape. But I'm sure my tanks could still blow a hole through it! I'm going to walk over to the electrician's house now, see if I can talk him into stopping by sometime soon:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 7, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Ray wrote: > > > Lainey, Was it all your electrical appliances that was the cause of > the telephone pole fire < g >. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > :) > > > > One time my telephone pole was on fire and I called my electrician > > and actually spoke to him about the fire and it took half an hour > for > > him to come, and he was only a few doors down the road! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Aug 7, 2010, at 12:08 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > If you carefully explain this to your electrician he will pay > you a > > > visit, especially if you should happen to mention the word "fire" > > > somewhere in the conversation! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48943	From: Aaron Martin	Date: 8/7/2010
Subject: Posting Problems

--- On Thu, 8/5/10, moderatorcentral-owner@yahoogroups.com <moderatorcentral-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote: From: moderatorcentral-owner@yahoogroups.com <moderatorcentral-owner@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [moderatorcentral] Posting Problems To: moderatorcentral@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 8:13 AM   We're aware of the problem that many groups are facing where messages posted via email are being rejected. We'll update the blog as soon as we have more information about the problem and when it will be resolved: http://www.ygroupsblog.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48944	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Census of Marine Life inventory released

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3105&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August_6_2010_b&utm_term=Census_of_Marine_Life_inventory_released&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/23oa5q4 Census of Marine Life inventory released Scientists have released the long-awaited inventory of species distribution and diversity in key global ocean areas in a collection of papers published in PLoS ONE. The Census of Marine Life (COML) focuses on 25 key areas with the waters off Japan and Australia coming out top of the biodiversity stakes with a massive 33,000 known species. Other areas boast anything from 2,600 to 33,000 known species but average out at around 10,750 species. The species fall into 12 different groups, led by crustaceans (including crabs, lobsters, crayfish, shrimp, krill and barnacles) that represent about one fifth of the known species in any given area. The next most prolific are molluscs (including squid, octopus, clams, snails and slugs) which make up 17%. Fish including sharks represent 12% of all marine species. Other groups include protozoa (10%), algae (10%), segmented worms (7%), sea anenomes, coral and jellyfish (5%), flatworms (3%), starfish, sea urchins etc 3%, sponges (3%), Bryozoa (2%), sea squirts (1%) and other invertebrates (5%). Only 2% of all the species in the oceans are made up of 'other vertebrates' such as whales, sea lions, seals, sea birds, turtles and walruses. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48945	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Problem solver: Nuisance algae

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3102&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August_6_2010_b&utm_term=Problem_solver:_Nuisance_algae&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/39u2gc2 Problem solver: Nuisance algae The bane of many a fishkeeper, algae is the cause of many people giving up the hobby. Jeremy Gay offers pointers on why you may have it - and how to control and get rid of it. Algae is everywhere. There are algaes adapted to hot water, cool water, hard water, soft water, freshwater, seawater, bright water, and poorly lit water. It will grow wherever there is light plus water - and our fish tanks provide perfect conditions. But why? Provide less light Algae needs light to thrive and our fixed duration lighting is perfect. With no plants or corals in the aquarium, cut the light back to a few hours per day when you are viewing it. Fish actually prefer lower lighting conditions, will feel more secure and your nocturnal fish may become more active in the daytime in low light. Cut lighting to four hours a day, or less and the algae will struggle. Cichlids show particularly good colour in dim, ambient room light. One method popular with some plant growers is the 'siesta' whereby lights are turned off for an hour or two in the middle of the day. This interrupts algae growth, but plants can put up with it. Ensure no sunlight reaches the tank as algae will grow fiercely when exposed to it. Take this into account when initially placing the tank. If some exposure is unavoidable, stick backing paper to the sides to try and block it out - or use an internal structured background. Less nutrients The subject of which nutrients actually fuel algae growth is hotly contested. Some say that nitrate and phosphate cause algae; others claim that ammonia is the cause. Although nitrate and phosphate can be used as fertilisers in heavily planted tanks, in a tank with little or no plants, or any marine tank, it will fuel algae growth. Phosphate can also impair coral growth in seawater. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48946	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Re: Problem solver: Nuisance algae

I have tried the 'siesta' whereby lights are turned off for an hour or two in the middle of the day and found no improvement. I think I had my tanks like this for about a year, a good, long test. I recently read plants rooted in the substrate use nitrate and phosphate; and floating plants use ammonia. Can't give personal experience, I don't use floating plants except the ones uprooted by my cichlids (LOL) and I have no ammonia for them to use anyway. From personal experience vallisneria quickly brought my nitrate to zero but I just had other types of algae growing as well as cyanobacteria due to the zero nitrates with plants present. I tried different solutions for this without success (fertilize more, increase circulation, add 0.5 phosphates since I have 0.0 phosphates, etc.). I added a dozen other slower-growing plants in fluorite pots and that worked. At this time my conclusion is that I get the best results with a large number of plants in the tank, but not super fast growing plants like vallisneria). I still get green spot algae on the glass, but the plants keep the algae off the rocks like nothing else I have tried. It is interesting that if I even switch 2 pots of plants from one tank to another, the algae starts coming back in one tank and disappearing in the other. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem solver: Nuisance algae http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3102 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3102&utm_source=P FK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August_6_2010_b&utm_ term=Problem_solver:_Nuisance_algae&utm_content=html> &utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August_ 6_2010_b&utm_term=Problem_solver:_Nuisance_algae&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/39u2gc2 Problem solver: Nuisance algae The bane of many a fishkeeper, algae is the cause of many people giving up the hobby. Jeremy Gay offers pointers on why you may have it - and how to control and get rid of it. Algae is everywhere. There are algaes adapted to hot water, cool water, hard water, soft water, freshwater, seawater, bright water, and poorly lit water. It will grow wherever there is light plus water - and our fish tanks provide perfect conditions. But why? Provide less light Algae needs light to thrive and our fixed duration lighting is perfect. With no plants or corals in the aquarium, cut the light back to a few hours per day when you are viewing it. Fish actually prefer lower lighting conditions, will feel more secure and your nocturnal fish may become more active in the daytime in low light. Cut lighting to four hours a day, or less and the algae will struggle. Cichlids show particularly good colour in dim, ambient room light. One method popular with some plant growers is the 'siesta' whereby lights are turned off for an hour or two in the middle of the day. This interrupts algae growth, but plants can put up with it. Ensure no sunlight reaches the tank as algae will grow fiercely when exposed to it. Take this into account when initially placing the tank. If some exposure is unavoidable, stick backing paper to the sides to try and block it out - or use an internal structured background. Less nutrients The subject of which nutrients actually fuel algae growth is hotly contested. Some say that nitrate and phosphate cause algae; others claim that ammonia is the cause. Although nitrate and phosphate can be used as fertilisers in heavily planted tanks, in a tank with little or no plants, or any marine tank, it will fuel algae growth. Phosphate can also impair coral growth in seawater. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48947	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: 2010 IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society, Waln

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   2010 IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society, Walnut Creek CA   Date:   Saturday August 21, 2010 Time:   8:00 am - 6:30 pm Repeats:   This event repeats every day until Saturday August 21, 2010. Next reminder:   The next reminder for this event will be sent in 8 days, 23 hours, 57 minutes. Location:   Walnut Creek Marriott Street:   2355 North Main Street City State Zip:   Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Phone:   1-925-934-2000 Notes:   www.cbsbettas.org/shows.html www.ibcbettas.org/pages/shows/details/53-cbs-fall-2010.html The show and auction/raffle are free and open to the public. Schedule: Friday, 20 August 2010 * Noon until finished: Check in and Show Setup * Noon-5pm: Cash table open for fish sales * 7pm-9pm: Judging seminars #1 and #2 Saturday, 21 August 2010 * 8am–noon: Judging (judges and volunteers only) * 8am-noon: Judging seminar #3 in the show room * 12pm–2:30pm: Show room opens to the public * 12pm-auction end: Cash table open for fish sales * 4pm–6:30pm: Auction and Raffle - Pre-registration is required for this show! Please email a copy of your entry form to Christine Tanner by Wed August 18, 2010. - Note: Please do NOT label your shipping boxes as "Live Fish". We've had issues in the past with certain shipping companies with boxes labeled in this manner. - Mail-in entries need to arrive no later than 5PM Thursday August 19, 2010. - Include in box: fish, completed entry form, bags for return, entry fees, and return postage. Show Fish: CBS will need to receive your entry form, fees, and return postage (if necessary) with your fish. Return postage and entry fee cannot be deducted from auction proceeds. You further agree not to hold CBS responsible for lost or dead fish. Entry fee for individual fish is $2.00 and $3.00 for pairs. Walk-in entrants MUST pre-register as noted above. Walk-ins must be benched by the entrant. Walk-ins must arrive by 5pm Friday August 20, 2010. All walk-ins must either pick up fish after the show or provide an insulated shipping box, bags, shipping address, and return postage. Auction: Auction fish sent to the show must arrive by 5PM Friday August 20, 2010, and marked Auction or Auction Only.   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48948	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Re: Problem solver: Nuisance algae

Yesterday I attended a talk given by Tony Orso. He mentioned a fish that is not known as an algae eater that will do an excellent job of cleaning up your tank if you do not feed them for a day or two. As I recall it was a pretty nice looking fish and a member of the rasbora group of fish. I was trying to remember the name earlier today, but could not, so I plan on e-mailing him later today to ask about it. I'll post the info here when I get it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Problem solver: Nuisance algae I have tried the 'siesta' whereby lights are turned off for an hour or two in the middle of the day and found no improvement. I think I had my tanks like this for about a year, a good, long test. I recently read plants rooted in the substrate use nitrate and phosphate; and floating plants use ammonia. Can't give personal experience, I don't use floating plants except the ones uprooted by my cichlids (LOL) and I have no ammonia for them to use anyway. From personal experience vallisneria quickly brought my nitrate to zero but I just had other types of algae growing as well as cyanobacteria due to the zero nitrates with plants present. I tried different solutions for this without success (fertilize more, increase circulation, add 0.5 phosphates since I have 0.0 phosphates, etc.). I added a dozen other slower-growing plants in fluorite pots and that worked. At this time my conclusion is that I get the best results with a large number of plants in the tank, but not super fast growing plants like vallisneria). I still get green spot algae on the glass, but the plants keep the algae off the rocks like nothing else I have tried. It is interesting that if I even switch 2 pots of plants from one tank to another, the algae starts coming back in one tank and disappearing in the other. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Problem solver: Nuisance algae http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3102 <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3102&utm_source=P FK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August_6_2010_b&utm_ term=Problem_solver:_Nuisance_algae&utm_content=html> &utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August_ 6_2010_b&utm_term=Problem_solver:_Nuisance_algae&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/39u2gc2 Problem solver: Nuisance algae The bane of many a fishkeeper, algae is the cause of many people giving up the hobby. Jeremy Gay offers pointers on why you may have it - and how to control and get rid of it. Algae is everywhere. There are algaes adapted to hot water, cool water, hard water, soft water, freshwater, seawater, bright water, and poorly lit water. It will grow wherever there is light plus water - and our fish tanks provide perfect conditions. But why? Provide less light Algae needs light to thrive and our fixed duration lighting is perfect. With no plants or corals in the aquarium, cut the light back to a few hours per day when you are viewing it. Fish actually prefer lower lighting conditions, will feel more secure and your nocturnal fish may become more active in the daytime in low light. Cut lighting to four hours a day, or less and the algae will struggle. Cichlids show particularly good colour in dim, ambient room light. One method popular with some plant growers is the 'siesta' whereby lights are turned off for an hour or two in the middle of the day. This interrupts algae growth, but plants can put up with it. Ensure no sunlight reaches the tank as algae will grow fiercely when exposed to it. Take this into account when initially placing the tank. If some exposure is unavoidable, stick backing paper to the sides to try and block it out - or use an internal structured background. Less nutrients The subject of which nutrients actually fuel algae growth is hotly contested. Some say that nitrate and phosphate cause algae; others claim that ammonia is the cause. Although nitrate and phosphate can be used as fertilisers in heavily planted tanks, in a tank with little or no plants, or any marine tank, it will fuel algae growth. Phosphate can also impair coral growth in seawater. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48949	From: harry perry	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Nuisan Algae

You could try this.  http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/algae/a/attackalgae.htm I am running four aquariums all well planted and all algae free. For years. One of the tanks is a plant grow out tank. My method is to: Put lights on a timer for eight hours a day. I feed my fish every other day. Water changes once a week. I never overstock a tank. These are low light tanks with plants that are suitable for the lights. If I see algae starting I put in more plants from my plant grow out tank. I remove all dead leaves from my tanks. Some algae will always be present. If you don't solve the root cause it will be back. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48950	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/8/2010
Subject: Tonight, 8/8 the San Diego Tropical Fish Society ~ Keeping Healthy F

http://www.sandiegotropicalfish.com/ Upcoming Events at SDTFS Monthly meetings normally begin with an auction. Sellers can start registering at 6:00 p.m., the auction starts at 6:30 and the program begins at 7:00. Check the paragraph on the specific event for variances from these times. . August 8, Keeping Healthy Fish, Paul A. Curtis M.Sc. Paul Curtis completed a Master of Science in Fish Reproductive Physiology/Aquaculture at the University of Guelph in Ontario in 1992. He is now owner of AquaSolver LLC in Escondido, CA which is an Aquatic Husbandry Consulting company. AquaSolver produces MinnFinn, a revolutionary new treatment for fish disease. He is also an Associate Professor at Saddleback Community College. Prior to starting AquaSolver he was a Research Biologist and Hatchery Manger at Hubbs-SeaWorld Research Institute. and prior to that he was a Hatchery Supervisor and Research Associate for Kent SeaTech Corporation here in San Diego. You can find out more about him and his company at www.aquasolver.com September 12, Vin Cutty, internationally known fish keeper, speaker and photographer. October 2, Fall Bash and SDTFS Board Meeting at John Flanagan's home. Members friends/family invited. Attend a membership meeting for more details. October 10, Bob Fenner will speak on "Livestock from Around the World, Where Our Fish, Plants and more Come From". November 5, 6, 7, Annual Show December 12, 2010 - Potluck, Room 101 (Our normal meeting room) Single people bring one hot item, if two people, bring one hot and one cold. Awards/Elections. April 16 and 17, 2011 - California Guppy Group IFGA Show in room 104 of the Botanical Building in Balboa Park. This is the only West Coast International Fancy Guppy Association approved show in 2011. Helpers will be needed starting on Friday the 15th. Email prattc@... for more information.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48951	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/9/2010
Subject: Pacific Coast Cichlid Association (PCCA) San Jose CA, 8/14/2010, 7:3

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   Pacific Coast Cichlid Association (PCCA) San Jose CA   Date:   Saturday August 14, 2010 Time:   7:30 pm - 10:30 pm Repeats:   This event repeats every month on the second Saturday. Location:   Round Table Pizza Street:   4302 Moorpark Avenue City State Zip:   San Jose, California Notes:   http://www.cichlidworld.com/ The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month. Social Hour starts at 7:30 pm Meeting starts at 8:00 pm Meetings are held a the Round Table Pizza parlor located at 4302 Moorpark Avenue in San Jose, California Founded in August of 1980, the Pacific Coast Cichlid Association exists to meet the needs of the west coast cichlid hobbyist. By-Laws were constructed in 1983-1984 and the PCCA was incorporated as a non-profit corporation under the laws of the state of California on January 30, 1985. Since inception, the PCCA has grown rapidly from a local society of 20 members to one of national scope, with members all over the world. The PCCA P.O. Box 28145 San Jose, Ca 95159-8145 http://www.cichlidworld.com/meetinginfo.html The PCCA meets every second Saturday of the month. Meetings are held a the Round Table Pizza located at 4400 Stevens Creek Blvd in San Jose, California. (Need Directions? try yahoo Maps)meetings begin at 7:30pm and run until the auction is over (sometimes as late as 12am). Auction table viewing begins at 7:30 pm. There are usually hundreds of bags so bring a pen and paper to record the bag numbers you want to bid on. Bidding is open to non-members as well as members. The auction often contains hundreds of fish and lasts several hours. Fish auctioned are provided by attendees, donations from local fish dealers, and from the PCCA itself which brings in rarer species to introduce them to association members. At 7:30pm the meeting starts with a presentation by an expert in the hobby and usually lasts about one hour. The PCCA has hosted many of the worlds most renowned names in the hobby including; Ad Konings, Paul Loiselle, and many many more. http://www.cichlidworld.com/membershipinfo.html   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48952	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: More on DP Poe

I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it had no effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other than he can't eat very much. But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a small head, like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to drain. It really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't get a good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is trying to drain. It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps shifting its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the pus- filled pinhead remains. Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I try to help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a sterilized pin or something? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48953	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Here are pictures of the current "situation": http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/popimple.jpg? t=1281571566 http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/po2pimple.jpg? t=1281571613 http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/po3pimple.jpg? t=1281571725 Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it had no > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other than he > can't eat very much. > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a small head, > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to drain. It > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't get a > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is trying > to drain. > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps shifting > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the pus- > filled pinhead remains. > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I try to > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > sterilized pin or something? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48954	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Sorry, just want to add: various people who have seen this before are telling me I have to lance the thing so it can drain while putting Poe back on antibiotics. I need help "lancing the thing". Do I do it underwater? Do I need to anesthetize? Do I use a sterilized pin? Do I squeeze? I don't want to lance the thing! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 11, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > Here are pictures of the current "situation": > > http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/popimple.jpg? > t=1281571566 > > http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/po2pimple.jpg? > t=1281571613 > > http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz3/johnalex99/po3pimple.jpg? > t=1281571725 > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it had no >> effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other than he >> can't eat very much. >> >> But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a small head, >> like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to drain. It >> really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't get a >> good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the >> whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. >> >> I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is trying >> to drain. >> >> It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps shifting >> its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the pus- >> filled pinhead remains. >> >> Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I try to >> help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a >> sterilized pin or something? >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48955	From: Ray	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This condition was well advanced before you administered the antibiotic, and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The medication may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting much worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's action. As long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the pathogen cells that was causing the infection). It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to use to knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so gently. After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its own, but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it had no > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other than he > can't eat very much. > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a small head, > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to drain. It > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't get a > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is trying > to drain. > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps shifting > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the pus- > filled pinhead remains. > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I try to > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > sterilized pin or something? > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48956	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/11/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Ray - One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when puffers come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without anesthetic since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel about that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > condition was well advanced before you administered the antibiotic, > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The medication > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting much > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's action. As > long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to use to > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so gently. > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its own, > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it had no > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other than he > > can't eat very much. > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a small head, > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to drain. It > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't get a > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is > trying > > to drain. > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps shifting > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the pus- > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I try to > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48957	From: Ray	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Lainey, My first inclination was to advise you to lance this issue under water by just suspending the fish near the surface in a net. While I'm aware of this fish puffing up (as are most anyone even slightly familiar with these fishes), upon being lifted clear of the water -- as that's where they derived their common name from -- I had forgotten that they can get air pockets. I just thought it would be much easier in having the fish tend to remain motionless. So, to put this in a nutshell, yes you can certainly lance this under water, again making sure that fresh antibiotics are already present in the water column. I can't vouch for anyone else on the Anubias Design Group as for their advice, but I know Mark Denaro (Anubias Design owner -- of not only the Group Site, but of his import/retail establishment by the same name) well and would vouch for anything he said; we just recently went fish collecting together several months ago, back in June -- the day before Fathers' Day -- the weather was a LOT MORE comfortable then. A local anesthetic probably isn't necessary, just as most of us don't feel a needle when we get a blood test sample drawn, but there may just be that one time when lancing a fish that it may unexpectedly move on you putting the fish in possible danger of getting injured by you when you're taken by surprise. At this time though, I tend to doubt that this fish is in pain, if only because it is acting normally and eating as best it can under the conditions which are inhibiting it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Ray - > > One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when puffers > come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air > pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? > > These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of > experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without anesthetic > since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel about > that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. > > I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > > condition was well advanced before you administered the antibiotic, > > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up > > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The medication > > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting much > > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing > > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's action. As > > long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the > > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid > > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the > > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped > > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. > > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish > > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this > > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to use to > > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize > > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could > > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on > > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so gently. > > > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If > > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its own, > > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it had no > > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other than he > > > can't eat very much. > > > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a small head, > > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to drain. It > > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't get a > > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is > > trying > > > to drain. > > > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps shifting > > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the pus- > > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I try to > > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48958	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Ray - Have you been to Mark Denaro's open houses? There is one coming up and I was thinking to make a trip down there, but it is a fairly knarly drive for me, so wondering if I would enjoy it? I'm deciding how to proceed on Poe, thank you so much for the excellent feedback. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Ray wrote: > > > Lainey, My first inclination was to advise you to lance this issue > under water by just suspending the fish near the surface in a net. > While I'm aware of this fish puffing up (as are most anyone even > slightly familiar with these fishes), upon being lifted clear of > the water -- as that's where they derived their common name from -- > I had forgotten that they can get air pockets. I just thought it > would be much easier in having the fish tend to remain motionless. > > So, to put this in a nutshell, yes you can certainly lance this > under water, again making sure that fresh antibiotics are already > present in the water column. I can't vouch for anyone else on the > Anubias Design Group as for their advice, but I know Mark Denaro > (Anubias Design owner -- of not only the Group Site, but of his > import/retail establishment by the same name) well and would vouch > for anything he said; we just recently went fish collecting > together several months ago, back in June -- the day before > Fathers' Day -- the weather was a LOT MORE comfortable then. > > A local anesthetic probably isn't necessary, just as most of us > don't feel a needle when we get a blood test sample drawn, but > there may just be that one time when lancing a fish that it may > unexpectedly move on you putting the fish in possible danger of > getting injured by you when you're taken by surprise. At this time > though, I tend to doubt that this fish is in pain, if only because > it is acting normally and eating as best it can under the > conditions which are inhibiting it. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Ray - > > > > One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when puffers > > come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air > > pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? > > > > These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of > > experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without > anesthetic > > since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel > about > > that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. > > > > I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > > > condition was well advanced before you administered the > antibiotic, > > > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up > > > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The > medication > > > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting > much > > > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing > > > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's > action. As > > > long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the > > > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid > > > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the > > > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > > > > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped > > > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. > > > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish > > > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this > > > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to > use to > > > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize > > > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could > > > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > > > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on > > > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so > gently. > > > > > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If > > > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its > own, > > > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it > had no > > > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other > than he > > > > can't eat very much. > > > > > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a > small head, > > > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to > drain. It > > > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't > get a > > > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > > > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is > > > trying > > > > to drain. > > > > > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps > shifting > > > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the > pus- > > > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I > try to > > > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > > > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48959	From: Ray	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Lainey, No, I've never taken the opportunity to attend Mark's Open Houses. While Mark brings in some very unusual fish, there's really no species I need that would cause me to drive 90 miles to get, when I can have Mark bring it to a fish club meeting that we both might attend. I know the drive would be so much longer for you, and I really can't tell you if it would be worth it for you or not. A much easier way to get a fish species from Mark that you can't find elsewhere, would be to just go up on his site (www.anubiasdesign.com) and check out his latest stocklist or ask him for any specific fish you're interested in getting. He could then ship them to you. I do understand that his facilities aren't especially large, but then, that doesn't take away from the types of fish he carries. As for going to an event, you ought to consider attending the NEC (North East Council - of Aquarium Societies) Convention in the Spring. It's held near Hartford, CT which is so much closer to you. There's a vendor room with many different species of rarer fish bring offered, speaker/seminars all throughout the day on Saturday (and Friday evening), a Saturday night banquet w/speaker, if you wish to attend, a Saturday morning buffet-style breakfast for all and a Sunday fish auction just to name a few things that go on. I try to make it as often as I can, even though I don't make it every year -- but when I do, I always have a blast. Always lots to do, much to see and people to meet. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Ray - > > Have you been to Mark Denaro's open houses? There is one coming up > and I was thinking to make a trip down there, but it is a fairly > knarly drive for me, so wondering if I would enjoy it? > > I'm deciding how to proceed on Poe, thank you so much for the > excellent feedback. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, My first inclination was to advise you to lance this issue > > under water by just suspending the fish near the surface in a net. > > While I'm aware of this fish puffing up (as are most anyone even > > slightly familiar with these fishes), upon being lifted clear of > > the water -- as that's where they derived their common name from -- > > I had forgotten that they can get air pockets. I just thought it > > would be much easier in having the fish tend to remain motionless. > > > > So, to put this in a nutshell, yes you can certainly lance this > > under water, again making sure that fresh antibiotics are already > > present in the water column. I can't vouch for anyone else on the > > Anubias Design Group as for their advice, but I know Mark Denaro > > (Anubias Design owner -- of not only the Group Site, but of his > > import/retail establishment by the same name) well and would vouch > > for anything he said; we just recently went fish collecting > > together several months ago, back in June -- the day before > > Fathers' Day -- the weather was a LOT MORE comfortable then. > > > > A local anesthetic probably isn't necessary, just as most of us > > don't feel a needle when we get a blood test sample drawn, but > > there may just be that one time when lancing a fish that it may > > unexpectedly move on you putting the fish in possible danger of > > getting injured by you when you're taken by surprise. At this time > > though, I tend to doubt that this fish is in pain, if only because > > it is acting normally and eating as best it can under the > > conditions which are inhibiting it. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray - > > > > > > One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when puffers > > > come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air > > > pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? > > > > > > These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of > > > experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without > > anesthetic > > > since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel > > about > > > that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. > > > > > > I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > > > > condition was well advanced before you administered the > > antibiotic, > > > > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up > > > > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The > > medication > > > > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting > > much > > > > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing > > > > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's > > action. As > > > > long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the > > > > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid > > > > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the > > > > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > > > > > > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped > > > > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. > > > > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish > > > > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this > > > > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to > > use to > > > > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize > > > > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could > > > > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > > > > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on > > > > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so > > gently. > > > > > > > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If > > > > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its > > own, > > > > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it > > had no > > > > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other > > than he > > > > > can't eat very much. > > > > > > > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a > > small head, > > > > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to > > drain. It > > > > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't > > get a > > > > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > > > > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > > > > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is > > > > trying > > > > > to drain. > > > > > > > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps > > shifting > > > > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the > > pus- > > > > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > > > > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I > > try to > > > > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > > > > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48960	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Ray - Today the pus is coming out in a trail on its own. But I don't think the whole abscess will drain this way, do you? But while there is an opening pathway, should I catch the poor guy and try to squeeze the rest out? This sounds so dangerous to me, but if I lance it, will it come out any better? Or is an opening an opening? In other words, do I still need to lance it? Thank you so much. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Ray wrote: > > > Lainey, My first inclination was to advise you to lance this issue > under water by just suspending the fish near the surface in a net. > While I'm aware of this fish puffing up (as are most anyone even > slightly familiar with these fishes), upon being lifted clear of > the water -- as that's where they derived their common name from -- > I had forgotten that they can get air pockets. I just thought it > would be much easier in having the fish tend to remain motionless. > > So, to put this in a nutshell, yes you can certainly lance this > under water, again making sure that fresh antibiotics are already > present in the water column. I can't vouch for anyone else on the > Anubias Design Group as for their advice, but I know Mark Denaro > (Anubias Design owner -- of not only the Group Site, but of his > import/retail establishment by the same name) well and would vouch > for anything he said; we just recently went fish collecting > together several months ago, back in June -- the day before > Fathers' Day -- the weather was a LOT MORE comfortable then. > > A local anesthetic probably isn't necessary, just as most of us > don't feel a needle when we get a blood test sample drawn, but > there may just be that one time when lancing a fish that it may > unexpectedly move on you putting the fish in possible danger of > getting injured by you when you're taken by surprise. At this time > though, I tend to doubt that this fish is in pain, if only because > it is acting normally and eating as best it can under the > conditions which are inhibiting it. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Ray - > > > > One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when puffers > > come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air > > pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? > > > > These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of > > experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without > anesthetic > > since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel > about > > that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. > > > > I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > > > condition was well advanced before you administered the > antibiotic, > > > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up > > > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The > medication > > > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting > much > > > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing > > > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's > action. As > > > long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the > > > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid > > > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the > > > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > > > > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped > > > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. > > > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish > > > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this > > > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to > use to > > > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize > > > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could > > > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > > > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on > > > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so > gently. > > > > > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If > > > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its > own, > > > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it > had no > > > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other > than he > > > > can't eat very much. > > > > > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a > small head, > > > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to > drain. It > > > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't > get a > > > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > > > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is > > > trying > > > > to drain. > > > > > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps > shifting > > > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the > pus- > > > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I > try to > > > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > > > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48961	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Lainey, It sounds like you no longer need to lance it now that it's coming out on its own. I doubt a hole made by a needle would be much more of an improvement. Yes, now that this has started exiting, you might want to net the fish and apply just a tad of light pressure to the area to help it along. If it doesn't improve matters, I wouldn't press any more. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48962	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Eek, I'm a little freaked, I did it and pushed out the pus and now there is a fairly large red hole where the pus was coming out but it seems like I got some pus out. I'm going to set up a hospital tank again (he's in his regular one right now) and give him the abx again. Now should I use topical type abx like the Maracyn TC or should I use the internal Kanaplex from seachem? I'm worried about him having too many abx - he has had a three day break but before that he had five days of Maracyn followed by six days of kanaplex. I will put in the melafix if I don't hear back as that is a topical and you can't OD them on it... TY Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:21 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > Lainey, It sounds like you no longer need to lance it now that it's > coming > out on its own. I doubt a hole made by a needle would be much more > of an > improvement. Yes, now that this has started exiting, you might want > to net > the fish and apply just a tad of light pressure to the area to help > it along. > If it doesn't improve matters, I wouldn't press any more. Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48963	From: Ray	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Way to go! Now he has a much better chance of healing up with no further issues. You're becoming a regular fish doctor. I still have no idea what abx is, or whether you should really be using it for this application. While the Melafix may work now, since the sore is open, I still recommend your using the KanaPlex as it is more effective and will be assured of getting inside where it's needed. I see you still aren't grasping the meaning of "topical." A topical medication is applied directly to a sore or wound, as if you were to take the fish out of water and put in right onto the sore. Melafix is not used like that. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Eek, I'm a little freaked, I did it and pushed out the pus and now > there is a fairly large red hole where the pus was coming out but it > seems like I got some pus out. I'm going to set up a hospital tank > again (he's in his regular one right now) and give him the abx again. > Now should I use topical type abx like the Maracyn TC or should I use > the internal Kanaplex from seachem? > > I'm worried about him having too many abx - he has had a three day > break but before that he had five days of Maracyn followed by six > days of kanaplex. > > I will put in the melafix if I don't hear back as that is a topical > and you can't OD them on it... > > TY > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:21 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > Lainey, It sounds like you no longer need to lance it now that it's > > coming > > out on its own. I doubt a hole made by a needle would be much more > > of an > > improvement. Yes, now that this has started exiting, you might want > > to net > > the fish and apply just a tad of light pressure to the area to help > > it along. > > If it doesn't improve matters, I wouldn't press any more. Ray</HTML> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48964	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Lainey, Just to fill in a bit more. The NEC is on March 25-27, 2011 at The Crowne Plaza, 100 Berlin Road, Cromwell, CT. I do not see any information on the NEC site about the 2011 event yet. This weekend, there is an auction there hosted by the NEC, information can be found at http://northeastcouncil.org/nec/images/stories/documents/NEC%20Summer%20Auct ion%20Flyer.pdf. I fear that Cromwell CT is a bit further from you than Ray imagines. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on DP Poe Lainey, No, I've never taken the opportunity to attend Mark's Open Houses. While Mark brings in some very unusual fish, there's really no species I need that would cause me to drive 90 miles to get, when I can have Mark bring it to a fish club meeting that we both might attend. I know the drive would be so much longer for you, and I really can't tell you if it would be worth it for you or not. A much easier way to get a fish species from Mark that you can't find elsewhere, would be to just go up on his site (www.anubiasdesign.com) and check out his latest stocklist or ask him for any specific fish you're interested in getting. He could then ship them to you. I do understand that his facilities aren't especially large, but then, that doesn't take away from the types of fish he carries. As for going to an event, you ought to consider attending the NEC (North East Council - of Aquarium Societies) Convention in the Spring. It's held near Hartford, CT which is so much closer to you. There's a vendor room with many different species of rarer fish bring offered, speaker/seminars all throughout the day on Saturday (and Friday evening), a Saturday night banquet w/speaker, if you wish to attend, a Saturday morning buffet-style breakfast for all and a Sunday fish auction just to name a few things that go on. I try to make it as often as I can, even though I don't make it every year -- but when I do, I always have a blast. Always lots to do, much to see and people to meet. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Ray - > > Have you been to Mark Denaro's open houses? There is one coming up > and I was thinking to make a trip down there, but it is a fairly > knarly drive for me, so wondering if I would enjoy it? > > I'm deciding how to proceed on Poe, thank you so much for the > excellent feedback. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, My first inclination was to advise you to lance this issue > > under water by just suspending the fish near the surface in a net. > > While I'm aware of this fish puffing up (as are most anyone even > > slightly familiar with these fishes), upon being lifted clear of > > the water -- as that's where they derived their common name from -- > > I had forgotten that they can get air pockets. I just thought it > > would be much easier in having the fish tend to remain motionless. > > > > So, to put this in a nutshell, yes you can certainly lance this > > under water, again making sure that fresh antibiotics are already > > present in the water column. I can't vouch for anyone else on the > > Anubias Design Group as for their advice, but I know Mark Denaro > > (Anubias Design owner -- of not only the Group Site, but of his > > import/retail establishment by the same name) well and would vouch > > for anything he said; we just recently went fish collecting > > together several months ago, back in June -- the day before > > Fathers' Day -- the weather was a LOT MORE comfortable then. > > > > A local anesthetic probably isn't necessary, just as most of us > > don't feel a needle when we get a blood test sample drawn, but > > there may just be that one time when lancing a fish that it may > > unexpectedly move on you putting the fish in possible danger of > > getting injured by you when you're taken by surprise. At this time > > though, I tend to doubt that this fish is in pain, if only because > > it is acting normally and eating as best it can under the > > conditions which are inhibiting it. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray - > > > > > > One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when puffers > > > come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air > > > pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? > > > > > > These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of > > > experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without > > anesthetic > > > since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel > > about > > > that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. > > > > > > I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > > > > condition was well advanced before you administered the > > antibiotic, > > > > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up > > > > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The > > medication > > > > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting > > much > > > > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing > > > > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's > > action. As > > > > long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the > > > > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid > > > > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the > > > > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > > > > > > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped > > > > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. > > > > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish > > > > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this > > > > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to > > use to > > > > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize > > > > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could > > > > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > > > > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on > > > > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so > > gently. > > > > > > > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If > > > > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its > > own, > > > > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it > > had no > > > > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other > > than he > > > > > can't eat very much. > > > > > > > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a > > small head, > > > > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to > > drain. It > > > > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't > > get a > > > > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > > > > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > > > > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is > > > > trying > > > > > to drain. > > > > > > > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps > > shifting > > > > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the > > pus- > > > > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > > > > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I > > try to > > > > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > > > > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48965	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Ray - Abx just abbreviates antibiotic in medical circles. Sorry to be obscure. I do understand completely about topical, again, sorry, I'm just using the term in a confusing way but I do know just what you are talking about:) Thanks a thousand times:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 12, 2010, at 7:43 PM, Ray wrote: > > > Way to go! Now he has a much better chance of healing up with no > further issues. You're becoming a regular fish doctor. I still have > no idea what abx is, or whether you should really be using it for > this application. While the Melafix may work now, since the sore is > open, I still recommend your using the KanaPlex as it is more > effective and will be assured of getting inside where it's needed. > I see you still aren't grasping the meaning of "topical." A topical > medication is applied directly to a sore or wound, as if you were > to take the fish out of water and put in right onto the sore. > Melafix is not used like that. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Eek, I'm a little freaked, I did it and pushed out the pus and now > > there is a fairly large red hole where the pus was coming out but it > > seems like I got some pus out. I'm going to set up a hospital tank > > again (he's in his regular one right now) and give him the abx > again. > > Now should I use topical type abx like the Maracyn TC or should I > use > > the internal Kanaplex from seachem? > > > > I'm worried about him having too many abx - he has had a three day > > break but before that he had five days of Maracyn followed by six > > days of kanaplex. > > > > I will put in the melafix if I don't hear back as that is a topical > > and you can't OD them on it... > > > > TY > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:21 PM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > > Lainey, It sounds like you no longer need to lance it now that > it's > > > coming > > > out on its own. I doubt a hole made by a needle would be much more > > > of an > > > improvement. Yes, now that this has started exiting, you might > want > > > to net > > > the fish and apply just a tad of light pressure to the area to > help > > > it along. > > > If it doesn't improve matters, I wouldn't press any more. Ray</ > HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48966	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

I’m thinking of going to Mark’s, I just ordered my second $100 order of plants from him. First batch came in very nice and are growing well. I’d want to see plants though. I’ll ask him on a forum we both frequent if he has plant displays. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on DP Poe Lainey, No, I've never taken the opportunity to attend Mark's Open Houses. While Mark brings in some very unusual fish, there's really no species I need that would cause me to drive 90 miles to get, when I can have Mark bring it to a fish club meeting that we both might attend. I know the drive would be so much longer for you, and I really can't tell you if it would be worth it for you or not. A much easier way to get a fish species from Mark that you can't find elsewhere, would be to just go up on his site (www.anubiasdesign.com) and check out his latest stocklist or ask him for any specific fish you're interested in getting. He could then ship them to you. I do understand that his facilities aren't especially large, but then, that doesn't take away from the types of fish he carries. As for going to an event, you ought to consider attending the NEC (North East Council - of Aquarium Societies) Convention in the Spring. It's held near Hartford, CT which is so much closer to you. There's a vendor room with many different species of rarer fish bring offered, speaker/seminars all throughout the day on Saturday (and Friday evening), a Saturday night banquet w/speaker, if you wish to attend, a Saturday morning buffet-style breakfast for all and a Sunday fish auction just to name a few things that go on. I try to make it as often as I can, even though I don't make it every year -- but when I do, I always have a blast. Always lots to do, much to see and people to meet. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Ray - > > Have you been to Mark Denaro's open houses? There is one coming up > and I was thinking to make a trip down there, but it is a fairly > knarly drive for me, so wondering if I would enjoy it? > > I'm deciding how to proceed on Poe, thank you so much for the > excellent feedback. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, My first inclination was to advise you to lance this issue > > under water by just suspending the fish near the surface in a net. > > While I'm aware of this fish puffing up (as are most anyone even > > slightly familiar with these fishes), upon being lifted clear of > > the water -- as that's where they derived their common name from -- > > I had forgotten that they can get air pockets. I just thought it > > would be much easier in having the fish tend to remain motionless. > > > > So, to put this in a nutshell, yes you can certainly lance this > > under water, again making sure that fresh antibiotics are already > > present in the water column. I can't vouch for anyone else on the > > Anubias Design Group as for their advice, but I know Mark Denaro > > (Anubias Design owner -- of not only the Group Site, but of his > > import/retail establishment by the same name) well and would vouch > > for anything he said; we just recently went fish collecting > > together several months ago, back in June -- the day before > > Fathers' Day -- the weather was a LOT MORE comfortable then. > > > > A local anesthetic probably isn't necessary, just as most of us > > don't feel a needle when we get a blood test sample drawn, but > > there may just be that one time when lancing a fish that it may > > unexpectedly move on you putting the fish in possible danger of > > getting injured by you when you're taken by surprise. At this time > > though, I tend to doubt that this fish is in pain, if only because > > it is acting normally and eating as best it can under the > > conditions which are inhibiting it. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray - > > > > > > One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when puffers > > > come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air > > > pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? > > > > > > These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of > > > experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without > > anesthetic > > > since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel > > about > > > that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. > > > > > > I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > > > > condition was well advanced before you administered the > > antibiotic, > > > > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up > > > > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The > > medication > > > > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting > > much > > > > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing > > > > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's > > action. As > > > > long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the > > > > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid > > > > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the > > > > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > > > > > > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped > > > > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. > > > > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish > > > > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this > > > > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to > > use to > > > > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize > > > > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could > > > > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > > > > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on > > > > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so > > gently. > > > > > > > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If > > > > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its > > own, > > > > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it > > had no > > > > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other > > than he > > > > > can't eat very much. > > > > > > > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a > > small head, > > > > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to > > drain. It > > > > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't > > get a > > > > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > > > > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > > > > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is > > > > trying > > > > > to drain. > > > > > > > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps > > shifting > > > > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the > > pus- > > > > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > > > > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I > > try to > > > > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > > > > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48967	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Steve are you going to the auction? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: More on DP Poe Lainey, Just to fill in a bit more. The NEC is on March 25-27, 2011 at The Crowne Plaza, 100 Berlin Road, Cromwell, CT. I do not see any information on the NEC site about the 2011 event yet. This weekend, there is an auction there hosted by the NEC, information can be found at http://northeastcouncil.org/nec/images/stories/documents/NEC%20Summer%20Auct ion%20Flyer.pdf. I fear that Cromwell CT is a bit further from you than Ray imagines. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on DP Poe Lainey, No, I've never taken the opportunity to attend Mark's Open Houses. While Mark brings in some very unusual fish, there's really no species I need that would cause me to drive 90 miles to get, when I can have Mark bring it to a fish club meeting that we both might attend. I know the drive would be so much longer for you, and I really can't tell you if it would be worth it for you or not. A much easier way to get a fish species from Mark that you can't find elsewhere, would be to just go up on his site (www.anubiasdesign.com) and check out his latest stocklist or ask him for any specific fish you're interested in getting. He could then ship them to you. I do understand that his facilities aren't especially large, but then, that doesn't take away from the types of fish he carries. As for going to an event, you ought to consider attending the NEC (North East Council - of Aquarium Societies) Convention in the Spring. It's held near Hartford, CT which is so much closer to you. There's a vendor room with many different species of rarer fish bring offered, speaker/seminars all throughout the day on Saturday (and Friday evening), a Saturday night banquet w/speaker, if you wish to attend, a Saturday morning buffet-style breakfast for all and a Sunday fish auction just to name a few things that go on. I try to make it as often as I can, even though I don't make it every year -- but when I do, I always have a blast. Always lots to do, much to see and people to meet. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Ray - > > Have you been to Mark Denaro's open houses? There is one coming up > and I was thinking to make a trip down there, but it is a fairly > knarly drive for me, so wondering if I would enjoy it? > > I'm deciding how to proceed on Poe, thank you so much for the > excellent feedback. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, My first inclination was to advise you to lance this issue > > under water by just suspending the fish near the surface in a net. > > While I'm aware of this fish puffing up (as are most anyone even > > slightly familiar with these fishes), upon being lifted clear of > > the water -- as that's where they derived their common name from -- > > I had forgotten that they can get air pockets. I just thought it > > would be much easier in having the fish tend to remain motionless. > > > > So, to put this in a nutshell, yes you can certainly lance this > > under water, again making sure that fresh antibiotics are already > > present in the water column. I can't vouch for anyone else on the > > Anubias Design Group as for their advice, but I know Mark Denaro > > (Anubias Design owner -- of not only the Group Site, but of his > > import/retail establishment by the same name) well and would vouch > > for anything he said; we just recently went fish collecting > > together several months ago, back in June -- the day before > > Fathers' Day -- the weather was a LOT MORE comfortable then. > > > > A local anesthetic probably isn't necessary, just as most of us > > don't feel a needle when we get a blood test sample drawn, but > > there may just be that one time when lancing a fish that it may > > unexpectedly move on you putting the fish in possible danger of > > getting injured by you when you're taken by surprise. At this time > > though, I tend to doubt that this fish is in pain, if only because > > it is acting normally and eating as best it can under the > > conditions which are inhibiting it. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray - > > > > > > One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when puffers > > > come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air > > > pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? > > > > > > These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of > > > experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without > > anesthetic > > > since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel > > about > > > that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. > > > > > > I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > > > > condition was well advanced before you administered the > > antibiotic, > > > > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up > > > > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The > > medication > > > > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting > > much > > > > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing > > > > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's > > action. As > > > > long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the > > > > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid > > > > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the > > > > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > > > > > > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped > > > > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. > > > > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish > > > > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this > > > > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to > > use to > > > > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize > > > > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could > > > > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > > > > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on > > > > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so > > gently. > > > > > > > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If > > > > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its > > own, > > > > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it > > had no > > > > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other > > than he > > > > > can't eat very much. > > > > > > > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a > > small head, > > > > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to > > drain. It > > > > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't > > get a > > > > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > > > > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > > > > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is > > > > trying > > > > > to drain. > > > > > > > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps > > shifting > > > > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the > > pus- > > > > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > > > > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I > > try to > > > > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > > > > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48968	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Donna - Same with me! I just placed a big plant order with him and want to see displays as well. Can you please let me know what you find out? Thank you. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:27 PM, Donna Ransome wrote: > I�m thinking of going to Mark�s, I just ordered my second $100 > order of > plants from him. First batch came in very nice and are growing > well. I�d > want to see plants though. I�ll ask him on a forum we both frequent > if he > has plant displays. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on DP Poe > > Lainey, No, I've never taken the opportunity to attend Mark's Open > Houses. > While Mark brings in some very unusual fish, there's really no > species I > need that would cause me to drive 90 miles to get, when I can have > Mark > bring it to a fish club meeting that we both might attend. I know > the drive > would be so much longer for you, and I really can't tell you if it > would be > worth it for you or not. A much easier way to get a fish species > from Mark > that you can't find elsewhere, would be to just go up on his site > (www.anubiasdesign.com) and check out his latest stocklist or ask > him for > any specific fish you're interested in getting. He could then ship > them to > you. I do understand that his facilities aren't especially large, > but then, > that doesn't take away from the types of fish he carries. > > As for going to an event, you ought to consider attending the NEC > (North > East Council - of Aquarium Societies) Convention in the Spring. > It's held > near Hartford, CT which is so much closer to you. There's a vendor > room with > many different species of rarer fish bring offered, speaker/ > seminars all > throughout the day on Saturday (and Friday evening), a Saturday night > banquet w/speaker, if you wish to attend, a Saturday morning buffet- > style > breakfast for all and a Sunday fish auction just to name a few > things that > go on. I try to make it as often as I can, even though I don't make > it every > year -- but when I do, I always have a blast. Always lots to do, > much to see > and people to meet. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> , > Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > Ray - > > > > Have you been to Mark Denaro's open houses? There is one coming up > > and I was thinking to make a trip down there, but it is a fairly > > knarly drive for me, so wondering if I would enjoy it? > > > > I'm deciding how to proceed on Poe, thank you so much for the > > excellent feedback. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey, My first inclination was to advise you to lance this issue > > > under water by just suspending the fish near the surface in a net. > > > While I'm aware of this fish puffing up (as are most anyone even > > > slightly familiar with these fishes), upon being lifted clear of > > > the water -- as that's where they derived their common name > from -- > > > I had forgotten that they can get air pockets. I just thought it > > > would be much easier in having the fish tend to remain motionless. > > > > > > So, to put this in a nutshell, yes you can certainly lance this > > > under water, again making sure that fresh antibiotics are already > > > present in the water column. I can't vouch for anyone else on the > > > Anubias Design Group as for their advice, but I know Mark Denaro > > > (Anubias Design owner -- of not only the Group Site, but of his > > > import/retail establishment by the same name) well and would vouch > > > for anything he said; we just recently went fish collecting > > > together several months ago, back in June -- the day before > > > Fathers' Day -- the weather was a LOT MORE comfortable then. > > > > > > A local anesthetic probably isn't necessary, just as most of us > > > don't feel a needle when we get a blood test sample drawn, but > > > there may just be that one time when lancing a fish that it may > > > unexpectedly move on you putting the fish in possible danger of > > > getting injured by you when you're taken by surprise. At this time > > > though, I tend to doubt that this fish is in pain, if only because > > > it is acting normally and eating as best it can under the > > > conditions which are inhibiting it. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander > > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray - > > > > > > > > One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when > puffers > > > > come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air > > > > pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? > > > > > > > > These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of > > > > experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without > > > anesthetic > > > > since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel > > > about > > > > that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. > > > > > > > > I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > > > > > condition was well advanced before you administered the > > > antibiotic, > > > > > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had > built up > > > > > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The > > > medication > > > > > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting > > > much > > > > > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise > continuing > > > > > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's > > > action. As > > > > > long as this pus remains associated with the infection > site, the > > > > > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, > liquid > > > > > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and > the > > > > > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > > > > > > > > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle > (dipped > > > > > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a > small fish. > > > > > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible > (the fish > > > > > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may > serve this > > > > > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to > > > use to > > > > > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to > euthanize > > > > > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. > You could > > > > > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > > > > > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you > decide on > > > > > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so > > > gently. > > > > > > > > > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the > water. If > > > > > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its > > > own, > > > > > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it > > > had no > > > > > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other > > > than he > > > > > > can't eat very much. > > > > > > > > > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a > > > small head, > > > > > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to > > > drain. It > > > > > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I > can't > > > get a > > > > > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy > with the > > > > > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to > and is > > > > > trying > > > > > > to drain. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps > > > shifting > > > > > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the > > > pus- > > > > > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > > > > > > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I > > > try to > > > > > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and > maybe a > > > > > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48969	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: Re: More on DP Poe

Donna, Even though it is only a 6-7 hour drive for me, no, I am not going to be in attendance. Now, if it was on the 22nd, when I'll be in MA, I might slide on down, but I would not be buying anything live, since I would need to try to keep it alive for several days before I get back home. However, I will be at the NEC in March. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: More on DP Poe Steve are you going to the auction? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Re: More on DP Poe Lainey, Just to fill in a bit more. The NEC is on March 25-27, 2011 at The Crowne Plaza, 100 Berlin Road, Cromwell, CT. I do not see any information on the NEC site about the 2011 event yet. This weekend, there is an auction there hosted by the NEC, information can be found at http://northeastcouncil.org/nec/images/stories/documents/NEC%20Summer%20Auct ion%20Flyer.pdf. I fear that Cromwell CT is a bit further from you than Ray imagines. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More on DP Poe Lainey, No, I've never taken the opportunity to attend Mark's Open Houses. While Mark brings in some very unusual fish, there's really no species I need that would cause me to drive 90 miles to get, when I can have Mark bring it to a fish club meeting that we both might attend. I know the drive would be so much longer for you, and I really can't tell you if it would be worth it for you or not. A much easier way to get a fish species from Mark that you can't find elsewhere, would be to just go up on his site (www.anubiasdesign.com) and check out his latest stocklist or ask him for any specific fish you're interested in getting. He could then ship them to you. I do understand that his facilities aren't especially large, but then, that doesn't take away from the types of fish he carries. As for going to an event, you ought to consider attending the NEC (North East Council - of Aquarium Societies) Convention in the Spring. It's held near Hartford, CT which is so much closer to you. There's a vendor room with many different species of rarer fish bring offered, speaker/seminars all throughout the day on Saturday (and Friday evening), a Saturday night banquet w/speaker, if you wish to attend, a Saturday morning buffet-style breakfast for all and a Sunday fish auction just to name a few things that go on. I try to make it as often as I can, even though I don't make it every year -- but when I do, I always have a blast. Always lots to do, much to see and people to meet. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Ray - > > Have you been to Mark Denaro's open houses? There is one coming up > and I was thinking to make a trip down there, but it is a fairly > knarly drive for me, so wondering if I would enjoy it? > > I'm deciding how to proceed on Poe, thank you so much for the > excellent feedback. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > Lainey, My first inclination was to advise you to lance this issue > > under water by just suspending the fish near the surface in a net. > > While I'm aware of this fish puffing up (as are most anyone even > > slightly familiar with these fishes), upon being lifted clear of > > the water -- as that's where they derived their common name from -- > > I had forgotten that they can get air pockets. I just thought it > > would be much easier in having the fish tend to remain motionless. > > > > So, to put this in a nutshell, yes you can certainly lance this > > under water, again making sure that fresh antibiotics are already > > present in the water column. I can't vouch for anyone else on the > > Anubias Design Group as for their advice, but I know Mark Denaro > > (Anubias Design owner -- of not only the Group Site, but of his > > import/retail establishment by the same name) well and would vouch > > for anything he said; we just recently went fish collecting > > together several months ago, back in June -- the day before > > Fathers' Day -- the weather was a LOT MORE comfortable then. > > > > A local anesthetic probably isn't necessary, just as most of us > > don't feel a needle when we get a blood test sample drawn, but > > there may just be that one time when lancing a fish that it may > > unexpectedly move on you putting the fish in possible danger of > > getting injured by you when you're taken by surprise. At this time > > though, I tend to doubt that this fish is in pain, if only because > > it is acting normally and eating as best it can under the > > conditions which are inhibiting it. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray - > > > > > > One of the many issues here is that Poe is a puffer, so when puffers > > > come out of water and get stressed they can puff up and get air > > > pockets. Is there a way I can lance this underwater? > > > > > > These guys on anubias design group who apparently have lots of > > > experience lancing stuff, are saying to just do it without > > anesthetic > > > since Poe is probably already in pain:( I don't know how I feel > > about > > > that - but the main thing is not to kill him unnecessarily. > > > > > > I would prefer to do it underwater if possible? > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 11:24 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey, You can't know that the KanaPlex had no effecr. This > > > > condition was well advanced before you administered the > > antibiotic, > > > > and you can't expect it to have dried up the pus that had built up > > > > in the interum and now in this "pimple-like" growth. The > > medication > > > > may well have kept the grossly advanced infection from getting > > much > > > > worse. That the fish is eating at all, and is otherwise continuing > > > > to act normally may in itself be testament to this med's > > action. As > > > > long as this pus remains associated with the infection site, the > > > > area will not be able to heal as it's made up of toxins, liquid > > > > puris and dead cells (both the fish's white blood cells and the > > > > pathogen cells that was causing the infection). > > > > > > > > It does sound like you may need to lance it with a needle (dipped > > > > in alchohol), even though that may be tricky on such a small fish. > > > > The area does need to be anesthetized if at all possible (the fish > > > > needs to be netted out of the water. The clove oil may serve this > > > > purpose as a localized anesthetic, but would be dangerous to > > use to > > > > knock the fish out completely as this product is used to euthanize > > > > fish. Do not get any inside the mouth or near the gills. You could > > > > dab the area briefly with the clove oil on an ear swab. After > > > > puncturing, internal pressure alone may drain it. If you decide on > > > > squeezing it, I don't think I need to tell you to only do so > > gently. > > > > > > > > After lancing, fresh antibiotics need to be added to the water. If > > > > you can't manage this, you can see if the pus goes away on its > > own, > > > > but if it does it's going to take much longer. Ray > > > > > > > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Lainey Alexander <lainealex@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I tried the Seachem Kanaplex for six days as directed and it > > had no > > > > > effect on Poe. But he continues to act totally normal, other > > than he > > > > > can't eat very much. > > > > > > > > > > But now, today, I see that his swollen area has formed a > > small head, > > > > > like a pinhead, and it appears to be draining or trying to > > drain. It > > > > > really looks like a pimple bursting through the skin. I can't > > get a > > > > > good photo but will keep trying. Poe is perfectly happy with the > > > > > whole situation as though nothing were happening to him. > > > > > > > > > > I believe this is a localized area of pus that needs to and is > > > > trying > > > > > to drain. > > > > > > > > > > It's not a tumor because it hasn't grown and the area keeps > > shifting > > > > > its shape around. Like today, the bulge is gone and only the > > pus- > > > > > filled pinhead remains. > > > > > > > > > > Should I leave things alone and hope for the best? Should I > > try to > > > > > help drain it somehow with clove as an anesthetic and maybe a > > > > > sterilized pin or something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48970	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/12/2010
Subject: HI: Maui County Council Ordinance Curbs Reef Extraction for Aquariu

[This message was originally written for posting on 'pet-law@yahoogroups.com'. and was posted there about a minute ago. scs] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-wintner/maui-county-counci-ordina_b_674889.html http://tinyurl.com/2488jmr Robert Wintner Exec Dir, the Snorkel Bob Foundation, author Some Fishes I Have Known (Skyhorse, NY) Posted: August 12, 2010 11:23 AM Maui County Council Ordinance Curbs Reef Extraction for Aquarium Trade A bill to regulate reef fish extraction for the aquarium trade has passed its first reading before Maui County Council with unanimous approval, 9-0. If the bill passes a second and final reading on Tuesday, August 24, it will require stringent permits and standards, including mortality reports, humane treatment, tax clearance and fees on all marine wildlife trafficking for the pet trade -- a first in Hawaii aquarium extraction. Although county jurisdiction ends at the high-water mark, this aquarium trade regulation is a milestone in Hawaii, where the State has declined to regulate for decades. With no limits on the catch, no limits on the number of catchers and no constraints on rare, endemic or vanishing species, aquarium extraction has left many Hawaii reefs empty. State regulation of aquarium extraction has been stonewalled from the Lingle administration (R), ending soon, in which the governor's Chief Policy Advisor was a wholesale distributor for the aquarium trade. Outside the law in Hawaii as well is unbridled extraction of invertebrates and eels, both of which require no permitting, licensing, monitoring or accountability. Hermit crabs are a lynchpin species vital to reef survival. Extraction by the hundreds of thousands annually has compromised many reefs, including Kane'ohe Bay on Oahu, where aquarium hunters took 300,000 hermit crabs for wholesale export at 11¢ each. The state had no response. --------<Continued at link>-------- Unfortunately, even only this far into the post, it does not rely on facts, but untruths. Also note that the post says Maui's authority ends at the highwater mark, and guess what, few reefs are ever exposed to the atmosphere. This means that the proposal is pretty useless, unless they do not allow reef critters and plants to be landed on Maui. Further in they talk about management. Several places in the world, and I believe some of this is happening in Hawaii, there have been set up sanctuaries where fishing and collection are not allowed. The result of this has been that when the protected areas become over populated, there is spill over into the unprotected areas. This, over time, has proven to be a quite significant spill over, allowing fishing and collection to become very successful. Another point not mentioned is that most corals in this country are not being collected, but are tank raised using a practice known as fragging, where a piece of coral is removed from the "mother" coral and grown under controlled conditions. Sometimes the frags are sold as is, harvested directly from the "mother" placed on a base or not, and sold directly to the consumer. With the fish, it is a different story, with the fish being difficult to breed and due to the lifecycle of many fishes, where the early part of their life is spent floating with the current and consuming various micro-organisms as food. This has proven to be very difficult to replicate in an aquarium setting. While there are fish that can be bred and raised in commercial numbers, the marine part of the hobby has nowhere near the number of tank raised fish for sale that the freshwater side of the hobby has. The marine clown fish is a good example of a fish that is being successfully commercially bred, and few, if any come in from the wild now. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48971	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies (NEC) Summer Auction - Cromw

Preregistration will be available until 11:45pm August 13th http://northeastcouncil.org/nec/images/stories/documents/NEC%20Summer%20Auction%20Flyer.pdf http://northeastcouncil.org/nec/ Location: THE CROWNE PLAZA 100 Berlin Road Cromwell, CT (860) 635-2000 Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies SUMMER AUCTION - 2010! Serving the Northeastern Portion of the United States SUNDAY August 15, 2010 OF FISH (All Species), AQUARIUM EQUIPMENT AND RELATED DRY GOODS 30 lots per vendor, limit of 5 dry good lots, and a limit of 3 lots per species. Auction lot proceeds; 50/50 split, Preregister and receive 60/40 split Vendors: Finley Aquatic Books, Harris in Wonderland, Ken's Fish (preorders only) Food & Refreshments will be available AUCTION HOURS: REGISTRATION.................................8:00 AM TO 12:00 PM VIEWING OF GOODS........................9:30 AM TO 11:45 AM AUCTION..................................................12:00 PM TO 5 PM RAFFLE..........................................................................50 / 50 NEC INVITES YOU TO ATTEND!!! FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, PLEASE Contact: Joe Masi ..(845) 896-4793 president@... Dave Giza ...(413) 301-3465 davegiza@... David or Janine Banks............(802) 372-8716 dbanks@... Web: www.northeastcouncil.org Email: president@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48972	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: 8/21& 22 ~ Warren, Ohio ~ YATFS "Whale of a Show"

http://www.yatfs.com/2010showflier.pdf August 21, & 22, 2010 Youngstown Area Tropical Fish Society Tropical Fish Show and Exhibition Open to the Public ~ Free Admission Cash Prizes 41 Classes Registration: Sat. 11 – 4 Auction Sunday NOON Auction Registration 11—1 Fish, Plants, Live foods No Hard goods No Pond plants 70/30 Split 4 Dot System The only hard goods raffled will be from Manufacturers donations. Visit http://www.yatfs.com/ for show rules, entrant form, and class list. Avalon Inn and Resort 9515 E. Market St Warren, Ohio 44484 1-800 828-2566

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48973	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: 9/3-5/10 ~ MACNA XXII ~ Orlando, FL

22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII) Orlando, FL http://www.macna2010.com/Speaker_Schedule September 3-5, 2010 The Marine Aquarium Conference of North America, (MACNA) is the largest and oldest marine aquarium conference held in the US and Canada. Hobbyists at all skill levels have been enjoying MACNA for over twenty years. Aquarium enthusiasts and avid reef keepers will have the opportunity to meet and mingle with peers and professionals. Learn from leading researchers in the fields of aquaculture, marine biology, diving and oceanography. Discover new technologies and purchase cutting edge equipment. Conference attendees will have an opportunity to purchase some of finest handpicked corals from over 100 vendors. But that's not all! Get ready for a huge raffle. Marine reef keeping equipment, supplies and countless other highly sought after items will all be raffled off. You can purchase your raffle tickets when you register for your full conference pass. Enjoy the open bar and reception dinner Friday night, as well as the spectacular Saturday night banquet! MACNA XXII will be held in sunny Orlando Florida at the world's largest Marriott Resort and Convention Hotel on September 3-5, 2010 (Labor Day Weekend). Yes, MACNA will only be minutes from Walt Disney World®, Sea World, and Universal Studios. Check out the Travel Page for more information on this amazing resort and the Attraction Information page for Discounted Tickets to Walt Disney World® and many other theme parks. Don't miss this opportunity to Register NOW while conference ticket prices are low.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48974	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: Chloramines

So my water supply is changing at the end of this month, they are going to start using chloramine instead of just chlorine in our water. Do I need to do anything different for my water changes? I typically use API tap water conditioner or if that's not available in town I get API's Stress coat (yes I know I don't like the added aloe either but I figure it's better than the cheap wardleys water conditioner, which is the only other thing available locally). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48975	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/13/2010
Subject: Re: Chloramines

Chloramine is a combination of chlorine and ammonia. You need a water conditioner that will split the chlorine from the ammonia and then convert the ammonia into a non-toxic form. Your bacteria can still handle this form of ammonia, but, it will not harm the fish. Unfortunately, the marketing monkeys won the day here, and most bottles will say "removes ammonia" which is not what it really does. If your bottle from API indicates that it does this. Too bad about Ted Stevens, but it did get Ketchikan back into the news for a couple of days. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Chloramines So my water supply is changing at the end of this month, they are going to start using chloramine instead of just chlorine in our water. Do I need to do anything different for my water changes? I typically use API tap water conditioner or if that's not available in town I get API's Stress coat (yes I know I don't like the added aloe either but I figure it's better than the cheap wardleys water conditioner, which is the only other thing available locally). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48976	From: Ray	Date: 8/14/2010
Subject: Re: Chloramines

Amber, No, you needn't do anything differently when your water supply changes over to chloramine. Both, Aquarium Pharmaceutical's "Tap Water Conditioner" and their "Ammo-Lock" (in case you can get that) eliminate chlorine AND break down chloramine, converting the ammonia to ammonium in the process of doing so. Additionally, they both bind heavy metals. Wardley's tap water conditioner -- I presume you mean their "3-in-1 Water Conditioner" -- does both (chlorine and chloramine) but does not advertise to address heavy metals, so if you know if you have a heavy metals issue this would not be one to get. Its "3-in-1" label is advertised to "Buffer the water, Neutralize ammonia and eliminate chlorine and chloramine." I don't know by what process it "buffers the water," but by this, it must be asssumed that it contains a chemical (or chemicals) that are not necessarily needed in the aquarium and that are best kept out (as are most other chemicals). Since you get good shipping rates with Fed Ex, you might want to look into having another one of the better water conditioners -- such as Seachem's "Prime" (instead of reverting to "Stress Coat") -- flown in to have on hand for those times when you run out of your API water conditioner and can't find it locally. Ray ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > So my water supply is changing at the end of this month, they are going > to start using chloramine instead of just chlorine in our water. Do I > need to do anything different for my water changes? I typically use API > tap water conditioner or if that's not available in town I get API's > Stress coat (yes I know I don't like the added aloe either but I figure > it's better than the cheap wardleys water conditioner, which is the only > other thing available locally). > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48977	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/14/2010
Subject: Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies (NEC) Summer Auction ~ Cromw

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies (NEC) Summer Auction ~ Cromwell, CT   Date:   Sunday August 15, 2010 Time:   8:00 am - 3:00 pm Location:   The Crowne Plaza, 100 Berlin Road, Cromwell, CT Street:   The Crowne Plaza, 100 Berlin Road City State Zip:   Cromwell, CT Phone:   (860) 635-2000 Notes:   http://northeastcouncil.org/nec/images/stories/documents/NEC%20Summer%20Auction%20Flyer.pdf http://northeastcouncil.org/nec/ Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies SUMMER AUCTION - 2010! Serving the Northeastern Portion of the United States SUNDAY August 15, 2010 OF FISH (All Species), AQUARIUM EQUIPMENT AND RELATED DRY GOODS 30 lots per vendor, limit of 5 dry good lots, and a limit of 3 lots per species. Auction lot proceeds; 50/50 split, Preregister and receive 60/40 split Preregistration will be available July 19th to 11:45pm August 13th   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48978	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/14/2010
Subject: Viet Nam: Is it the end for the Mekong giant catfish?

This may not exactly be a pet-law topic, since no one in their right mind would be keeping these fish in an aquarium, but the Mekong giant catfish is a food source for many people, and the population of this fish has already steeply declined in recent history. Go to the link for pictures of this fish, and another large fish that is also endangered by this project. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3127&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August_12_2010_b&utm_term=Is_it_the_end_for_the_Mekong_giant_catfish?&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2actpxc Is it the end for the Mekong giant catfish? Copyright (c) Jean-Francois Helias Proposed dams in the lower Mekong River in the Indochinese peninsula will doom the Mekong giant catfish (Pangasianodon gigas) to extinction, according to the report "River of Giants: Giant Fish of the Mekong" recently released by the World Wildlife Fund. There are 11 dams proposed in the Mekong River south of China (eight in Laos and three in Cambodia), and the construction of any one of these dams will prevent the catfish from migrating upriver (from the Tonle Sap Lake in Cambodia to northern Thailand and Laos) to spawn. The catfish, reaching sizes of up to 3m and weights of up to 350 kg, cannot swim across dams because of their sheer bulk, making fish ladders (the traditional solution in allowing migratory fish to pass through artificial barriers such as dams) useless in alleviating this problem. Populations of the giant Mekong catfish have already plummeted by 90% over two decades, and the dams might prove to be the last straw. The dams not only spell doom for the Mekong giant catfish, as the Mekong River is also home to four of the world's 10 largest freshwater fish species. The other three species, also highlighted in the report, are the giant freshwater stingray (Himantura chaophraya) pictured above, the giant dog-eating catfish (Pangasius sanitwongsei), and the giant barb (Catlocarpio siamensis). According to Dang Thuy Trang, Mekong River Ecoregion Coordinator for the WWF Greater Mekong Programme, "More giant fish live in the Mekong than any other river on Earth... Currently, the Lower Mekong remains free-flowing, which presents a rare opportunity for the conservation of these species. But the clock is ticking." According to the report, even more is at stake than the fates of the giant fishes of the Mekong River. Construction of the dams are also likely to exacerbate the impacts of climate change on the Mekong River Delta, one of the world's most fertile regions for agriculture (particularly rice) and one of its most productive for both capture and culture fisheries. The dams are likely to withhold sediment flowing downstream, reducing the ability of the delta to replenish itself, and rendering it more vulnerable to climate change effects such as increased erosion, saltwater intrusion from sea-level rises, and more intense tropical storms. This would eventually lead to the displacement of millions of people and the loss of millions' of dollars worth of agricultural land. Some of these fishes can be seen in a new TV series featuring giant fish. For more information, see the report: River of Giants: Giant Fish of the Mekong. For further information giant catfishes see the following: Nine foot giant Pangasius catfish caught How to tag a giant catfish Giant Mekong catfish released in Cambodia Giant catfish gets protection Published: Dr Heok Hee Ng Thursday 12 August 2010, 12:23 pm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48979	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/16/2010
Subject: FW: Tatnuck Pet has a Birthday!

For those of you who are in the Worcester area this weekend: \\Steve// HI ALL Tatnuck Pet is celebrating it's 1 year anniversary extravaganza on Saturday August 21 from 10 am to 5 p.m. Hot Dogs and popcorn, demos, samples, rebates and giveaways. Location: 1124 Pleasant St, Worcester., telephone: 508.796.5685 http://www.tatnuckpet.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48980	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society CBS, Walnu

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society CBS, Walnut Creek, CA   Date:   Friday August 20, 2010 Time:   8:00 am - 6:30 pm Repeats:   This event repeats every day until Saturday August 21, 2010. Location:   Walnut Creek Marriott Street:   2355 North Main Street City State Zip:   Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Phone:   1-925-934-2000 Notes:   www.cbsbettas.org/shows.html www.ibcbettas.org/pages/shows/details/53-cbs-fall-2010.html The show and auction/raffle are free and open to the public. Schedule: Friday, 20 August 2010 * Noon until finished: Check in and Show Setup * Noon-5pm: Cash table open for fish sales * 7pm-9pm: Judging seminars #1 and #2 Saturday, 21 August 2010 * 8am–noon: Judging (judges and volunteers only) * 8am-noon: Judging seminar #3 in the show room * 12pm–2:30pm: Show room opens to the public * 12pm-auction end: Cash table open for fish sales * 4pm–6:30pm: Auction and Raffle - Pre-registration is required for this show! Please email a copy of your entry form to Christine Tanner by Wed August 18, 2010. - Note: Please do NOT label your shipping boxes as "Live Fish". We've had issues in the past with certain shipping companies with boxes labeled in this manner. - Mail-in entries need to arrive no later than 5PM Thursday August 19, 2010. - Include in box: fish, completed entry form, bags for return, entry fees, and return postage. Show Fish: CBS will need to receive your entry form, fees, and return postage (if necessary) with your fish. Return postage and entry fee cannot be deducted from auction proceeds. You further agree not to hold CBS responsible for lost or dead fish. Entry fee for individual fish is $2.00 and $3.00 for pairs. Walk-in entrants MUST pre-register as noted above. Walk-ins must be benched by the entrant. Walk-ins must arrive by 5pm Friday August 20, 2010. All walk-ins must either pick up fish after the show or provide an insulated shipping box, bags, shipping address, and return postage. Auction: Auction fish sent to the show must arrive by 5PM Friday August 20, 2010, and marked Auction or Auction Only.   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48981	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Re: Chloramines

Unfortunately the LFS pretty much only sells API's Stress coat, and when I've asked if they would get anything different all they did was buy a BIGGER bottle of it and put it out for sale, LOL. The only way I can use my discount is if I order off of ebay or some place similar and the shipper will agree to send it on my fedex account, most online stores will not ship on my fedex account (in fact I have yet to find one that will). I do want to get API TWC instead of the stress coat though, just wish I didn't have to order it to get it. Amber Ray wrote: > > > > Amber, No, you needn't do anything differently when your water supply > changes over to chloramine. Both, Aquarium Pharmaceutical's "Tap Water > Conditioner" and their "Ammo-Lock" (in case you can get that) > eliminate chlorine AND break down chloramine, converting the ammonia > to ammonium in the process of doing so. Additionally, they both bind > heavy metals. Wardley's tap water conditioner -- I presume you mean > their "3-in-1 Water Conditioner" -- does both (chlorine and > chloramine) but does not advertise to address heavy metals, so if you > know if you have a heavy metals issue this would not be one to get. > Its "3-in-1" label is advertised to "Buffer the water, Neutralize > ammonia and eliminate chlorine and chloramine." > > I don't know by what process it "buffers the water," but by this, it > must be asssumed that it contains a chemical (or chemicals) that are > not necessarily needed in the aquarium and that are best kept out (as > are most other chemicals). Since you get good shipping rates with Fed > Ex, you might want to look into having another one of the better water > conditioners -- such as Seachem's "Prime" (instead of reverting to > "Stress Coat") -- flown in to have on hand for those times when you > run out of your API water conditioner and can't find it locally. Ray > > ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > So my water supply is changing at the end of this month, they are going > > to start using chloramine instead of just chlorine in our water. Do I > > need to do anything different for my water changes? I typically use API > > tap water conditioner or if that's not available in town I get API's > > Stress coat (yes I know I don't like the added aloe either but I figure > > it's better than the cheap wardleys water conditioner, which is the > only > > other thing available locally). > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48982	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Shipping question

If I want to ship a small group of heterandria formosa and a small group of licorice gouramis, in separate bags, and am sending them overnight - will they have enough air in regular shipping bags if I just add one third water and two thirds air and seal the top? Thanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48983	From: Ray	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Re: Shipping question

Depends on what you consider a "small group," the size of the bag and the size of the fish. In general, since the Heterandria are small fish anyway, you could probably ship up to 6 fish in a medium size bag and possibly 3 of the Gouramis if they are not full size in a similar bag since they'll also use oxygen from the bag air. Naturally, you'll double bag them, inverting one bag into the other, and use double rubber bands. You'll also lay the bags down flat in the shipping carton instead of standing them up. Line the carton first with an oversized fish bag to catch any possible dripping, and fill out the carton with either styro peanuts or crumpled newspaper after putting the bags of fish in, tying off the oversized bag on top. Get to the shipping place not much sooner than an hour before closing, unless you're shipping via air freight which stipulates more time (don't get there at mid-day or in the morning when shipping fish out for next day delivery). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > If I want to ship a small group of heterandria formosa and a small > group of licorice gouramis, in separate bags, and am sending them > overnight - will they have enough air in regular shipping bags if I > just add one third water and two thirds air and seal the top? > > Thanks. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48984	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Re: Shipping question

OK, thanks, Ray. Now, would it be OK if I stuck a small tuft of moss in with the fish? They are used to so many plants, and when I offer a bit of moss I find they are calmer in the bags, but not sure with shipping...I am shipping Fed Ex overnight if that matters. By the way, little Poe the swollen puffer is much much better! Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 17, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Ray wrote: > > Depends on what you consider a "small group," the size of the bag > and the size of the fish. In general, since the Heterandria are > small fish anyway, you could probably ship up to 6 fish in a medium > size bag and possibly 3 of the Gouramis if they are not full size > in a similar bag since they'll also use oxygen from the bag air. > Naturally, you'll double bag them, inverting one bag into the > other, and use double rubber bands. You'll also lay the bags down > flat in the shipping carton instead of standing them up. Line the > carton first with an oversized fish bag to catch any possible > dripping, and fill out the carton with either styro peanuts or > crumpled newspaper after putting the bags of fish in, tying off the > oversized bag on top. Get to the shipping place not much sooner > than an hour before closing, unless you're shipping via air freight > which stipulates more time (don't get there at mid-day or in the > morning when shipping fish out for next day delivery). Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > If I want to ship a small group of heterandria formosa and a small > > group of licorice gouramis, in separate bags, and am sending them > > overnight - will they have enough air in regular shipping bags if I > > just add one third water and two thirds air and seal the top? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48985	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: AqAdvisor.com

~ http://www.aqadvisor.com ~ Intelligent Aquarium Stocking Calculator to help you setup correct stocks and filters for your aquariums and fish. ~ AqAdvisor.com is a tool/calculator that helps you determine your tropical fish stocking plans. ~ It will Calculate Your aquarium filtration capacity for selected species in %, recommend a water change schedule in % per week, aquarium stocking level & give a recommended temperature range in C or F, pH range & hardness range. ~ All based on your input of Aquarium Size by Capacity or Dimensions, Filter Size by Brand & Model, as well as a pre-populated list of fish species to chose from and quantity. ~ *New - now for Saltwater too! ~ http:/www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisorMarine.php

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48986	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: FL: Exotic fish at Pier go belly up after electrical problem

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/exotic-fish-at-pier-go-belly-up-after-electrical-problem/1115634 http://tinyurl.com/2cewmcs Exotic fish at Pier go belly up after electrical problem By Luis Perez, Times Staff Writer In Print: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 You will need to go online to read the article. The St. Petersburg Times is asking for money to present this article to a wider audience. ------------------------------------- And, these people are supposed to be professionals. These tanks that were affected were over-crowded, and the animals should have been able to withstand a power outage for far longer than the reported 15 minutes. Even if the tank conditions were not optimal, they should have been able to withstand the short outage. This aquarium should be ashamed of itself rather than be out begging for money. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48987	From: AquaticLife	Date: 8/17/2010
Subject: Pet Fish Talk

http://www.petfishtalk.com/ Call 1-877-823-6217 Toll Free during the show and talk about your pet fish every Wednesday between 1 and 3 pm Pacific Time, to hear the Pet Fish Talk Show live on the internet. That's right, it's a radio show that's sent over the internet to your computer. The Bailey Brothers, Tom and Nevin, two of America's most trusted aquarium experts, host each show, and they invite you to call during the show and talk with them about your pet fish. If you can't call the live show, email your comment or question to: liveshow2@... and Tom and Nevin will try to read your email during the show. 24/7 Listening Many Pet Fish Talk Shows have been recorded and are available for listening at your convenience. Click here http://www.petfishtalk.com/pages/pft_archive.htm to go to the list of recorded shows. The Bailey Brothers have been partners in the tropical fish business for more than 35 years. Since June of 2002 they have been the hosts of Pet Fish Talk, a weekly internet talk show about keeping pet fish in aquariums, fish bowls, and ponds. Click here now http://www.petfishtalk.com/pages/about_the_hosts.htm to learn more about the Bailey Brothers.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48988	From: Ray	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Re: Shipping question

Lainey, In the darkness of the shipping box, the fish aren't going to know if there are plants with them or not. If it makes YOU feel better, you may put a sprig of some type of plant with them, but you need to keep in mind the in darkness, plants also give off carbon dioxide and use oxygen. Putting a lot of plant matter in the fish bag could be like adding another fish (or two), depending upon the quantity. For all intents and purposes, the fish are going to lapse into a sleep mode when you close the box, just like they would when you turn their lights out at night. Glad to hear Poe is doing better. Always good news when fish recover from these various issues. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > OK, thanks, Ray. Now, would it be OK if I stuck a small tuft of moss > in with the fish? They are used to so many plants, and when I offer a > bit of moss I find they are calmer in the bags, but not sure with > shipping...I am shipping Fed Ex overnight if that matters. > > By the way, little Poe the swollen puffer is much much better! > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 17, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > Depends on what you consider a "small group," the size of the bag > > and the size of the fish. In general, since the Heterandria are > > small fish anyway, you could probably ship up to 6 fish in a medium > > size bag and possibly 3 of the Gouramis if they are not full size > > in a similar bag since they'll also use oxygen from the bag air. > > Naturally, you'll double bag them, inverting one bag into the > > other, and use double rubber bands. You'll also lay the bags down > > flat in the shipping carton instead of standing them up. Line the > > carton first with an oversized fish bag to catch any possible > > dripping, and fill out the carton with either styro peanuts or > > crumpled newspaper after putting the bags of fish in, tying off the > > oversized bag on top. Get to the shipping place not much sooner > > than an hour before closing, unless you're shipping via air freight > > which stipulates more time (don't get there at mid-day or in the > > morning when shipping fish out for next day delivery). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > If I want to ship a small group of heterandria formosa and a small > > > group of licorice gouramis, in separate bags, and am sending them > > > overnight - will they have enough air in regular shipping bags if I > > > just add one third water and two thirds air and seal the top? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48989	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society CBS, Walnu

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   IBC International Show hosted by California Betta Society CBS, Walnut Creek, CA   Date:   Saturday August 21, 2010 Time:   8:00 am - 6:30 pm Repeats:   This event repeats every day until Saturday August 21, 2010. Location:   Walnut Creek Marriott Street:   2355 North Main Street City State Zip:   Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Phone:   1-925-934-2000 Notes:   www.cbsbettas.org/shows.html www.ibcbettas.org/pages/shows/details/53-cbs-fall-2010.html The show and auction/raffle are free and open to the public. Schedule: Friday, 20 August 2010 * Noon until finished: Check in and Show Setup * Noon-5pm: Cash table open for fish sales * 7pm-9pm: Judging seminars #1 and #2 Saturday, 21 August 2010 * 8am–noon: Judging (judges and volunteers only) * 8am-noon: Judging seminar #3 in the show room * 12pm–2:30pm: Show room opens to the public * 12pm-auction end: Cash table open for fish sales * 4pm–6:30pm: Auction and Raffle - Pre-registration is required for this show! Please email a copy of your entry form to Christine Tanner by Wed August 18, 2010. - Note: Please do NOT label your shipping boxes as "Live Fish". We've had issues in the past with certain shipping companies with boxes labeled in this manner. - Mail-in entries need to arrive no later than 5PM Thursday August 19, 2010. - Include in box: fish, completed entry form, bags for return, entry fees, and return postage. Show Fish: CBS will need to receive your entry form, fees, and return postage (if necessary) with your fish. Return postage and entry fee cannot be deducted from auction proceeds. You further agree not to hold CBS responsible for lost or dead fish. Entry fee for individual fish is $2.00 and $3.00 for pairs. Walk-in entrants MUST pre-register as noted above. Walk-ins must be benched by the entrant. Walk-ins must arrive by 5pm Friday August 20, 2010. All walk-ins must either pick up fish after the show or provide an insulated shipping box, bags, shipping address, and return postage. Auction: Auction fish sent to the show must arrive by 5PM Friday August 20, 2010, and marked Auction or Auction Only.   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48990	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Re: Shipping question

Plants are useful when shipping critters that don't swim and like to hold onto stuff, such as shrimp. I haven't received plants in a bag with fish (yet) though I did get some in a separate bag when I received some free guppies with an aquabid order earlier this year. Amber Ray wrote: > > > > Lainey, In the darkness of the shipping box, the fish aren't going to > know if there are plants with them or not. If it makes YOU feel > better, you may put a sprig of some type of plant with them, but you > need to keep in mind the in darkness, plants also give off carbon > dioxide and use oxygen. Putting a lot of plant matter in the fish bag > could be like adding another fish (or two), depending upon the > quantity. For all intents and purposes, the fish are going to lapse > into a sleep mode when you close the box, just like they would when > you turn their lights out at night. > > Glad to hear Poe is doing better. Always good news when fish recover > from these various issues. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > > OK, thanks, Ray. Now, would it be OK if I stuck a small tuft of moss > > in with the fish? They are used to so many plants, and when I offer a > > bit of moss I find they are calmer in the bags, but not sure with > > shipping...I am shipping Fed Ex overnight if that matters. > > > > By the way, little Poe the swollen puffer is much much better! > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Aug 17, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > Depends on what you consider a "small group," the size of the bag > > > and the size of the fish. In general, since the Heterandria are > > > small fish anyway, you could probably ship up to 6 fish in a medium > > > size bag and possibly 3 of the Gouramis if they are not full size > > > in a similar bag since they'll also use oxygen from the bag air. > > > Naturally, you'll double bag them, inverting one bag into the > > > other, and use double rubber bands. You'll also lay the bags down > > > flat in the shipping carton instead of standing them up. Line the > > > carton first with an oversized fish bag to catch any possible > > > dripping, and fill out the carton with either styro peanuts or > > > crumpled newspaper after putting the bags of fish in, tying off the > > > oversized bag on top. Get to the shipping place not much sooner > > > than an hour before closing, unless you're shipping via air freight > > > which stipulates more time (don't get there at mid-day or in the > > > morning when shipping fish out for next day delivery). Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lainey Alexander > > > <lainealex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > If I want to ship a small group of heterandria formosa and a small > > > > group of licorice gouramis, in separate bags, and am sending them > > > > overnight - will they have enough air in regular shipping bags if I > > > > just add one third water and two thirds air and seal the top? > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48991	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Youngstown Area Tropical Fish Society (YATFS) WHALE of a SHOW ~ Warr

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   Youngstown Area Tropical Fish Society (YATFS) WHALE of a SHOW ~ Warren, Ohio   Date:   Saturday August 21, 2010 Time:   10:00 am - 5:00 pm Repeats:   This event repeats every day until Sunday August 22, 2010. Location:   Avalon Inn and Resort Street:   9515 E. Market St City State Zip:   Warren, Ohio 44484 Phone:   1-800 828-2566 Notes:   http://www.yatfs.com/2010showflier.pdf August 21, & 22, 2010 Tropical Fish Show and Exhibition Open to the Public ~ Free Admission Cash Prizes 41 Classes Manufacturers Spokesperson Ray ―Kingfish‖ Lucas Registration: Sat. 11 – 4 Auction Sunday NOON Auction Registration 11—1 Fish, Plants, Live foods No Hard goods No Pond plants 70/30 Split 4 Dot System The only hard goods raffled will be from Manufacturers donations. Visit www.yatfs.com for show rules, entrant form, and class list. Avalon Inn and Resort 9515 E. Market St Warren, Ohio 44484   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48992	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Anubias Design Open House

I asked if there would be plants or planted tanks on display. The answer is. Not really. The tanks are all used to house stock. I do have plants in them but they're not what I'd call display tanks. I do set up tanks for projects that I'm working on for TFH that would fit that bill but I don't know if I'll have any of those set up at that time. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48993	From: Brenda	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Blue and gold gourami bred

I have a blue female and a gold male that mated last year. Their offspring all are striped. None of which are blue or gold. I was wondering what this color would be classified as. I have researched on fish breeding sites and the closest thing I have found is called Lavender. I was wondering if I bred 2 of them back together would they possibly turn out blues or golds or would they just be this strange color. Has anyone bred these two colors together?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48994	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/18/2010
Subject: Re: Blue and gold gourami bred

I am fairly certain that both of the gourami's that you have are the same type just different color varieties. By breeding them together you're getting what would be a more "natural" looking color variety (perhaps not the kind found in the wild but if you keep breeding them it's possible that they could revert back to a more natural color that is neither blue or gold). Amber Brenda wrote: > > I have a blue female and a gold male that mated last year. Their > offspring all are striped. None of which are blue or gold. I was > wondering what this color would be classified as. I have researched on > fish breeding sites and the closest thing I have found is called > Lavender. I was wondering if I bred 2 of them back together would they > possibly turn out blues or golds or would they just be this strange > color. Has anyone bred these two colors together? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48995	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Aquaria for Rich Folk

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn [Site may require registration.] The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On By JENNIFER A. KINGSON Published: August 18, 2010 KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from among the 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- foot, 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two small children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects motorcycles and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, goes to the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch of a button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be colorless - a vivid blue. "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. (Given that they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the other, it's hard to tell.) Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they start with a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon version that doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a certain segment of the population - many of whom never considered keeping fish before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has become a must-have piece of décor. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48996	From: Ray	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Blue and gold gourami bred

Hi Brenda, As Amber has just indicated, your two Gouramis are of the same "type" (species), just different man-made color morphs -- or color varieties -- of this species, commonly know as the 3-Spot (or Blue) Gourami; Trichogaster trichopterus. As the young are not receiving a full complement of color pattern genes for either variation from both parents, but instead only receiving half the complement of one variety from one parent and half of another variety from the other parent, neither color will be expressed in this latest generation although genes of both are being carried by 50% of them. If the correct ones (from that 50%) were to be raised and bred, one of the color varieties would appear in the next generation, whichever would be the dominant color trait. In the meantime, this present new generation is displaying color revert towards the wild type coloration -- again, as Amber so rightly indicated -- and possibly the coloration of more distant predecessor species that the 3-Spot Gourami was derived/evolved from since their are obviously recessive genes also involved here. Usually, no one intentionally breeds these various color morphs together, as they prefer the varieties just as they are and enjoy keeping them as they presently appear. While there are hobbyists, such as yourself, who enjoy keeping different color strains of the same species, there will always be the potential for inadvertent spawnings between them that weren't planned for. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Brenda" <pacefamx7@...> wrote: > > I have a blue female and a gold male that mated last year. Their offspring all are striped. None of which are blue or gold. I was wondering what this color would be classified as. I have researched on fish breeding sites and the closest thing I have found is called Lavender. I was wondering if I bred 2 of them back together would they possibly turn out blues or golds or would they just be this strange color. Has anyone bred these two colors together? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48997	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems overstocked to me... am I right? Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th> > > http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn > > [Site may require registration.] > > The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On > > By JENNIFER A. KINGSON > Published: August 18, 2010 > > KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from among the > 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- foot, > 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is > fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. > > "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two small > children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." > > Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects motorcycles > and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, goes to > the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch of a > button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be colorless - a > vivid blue. > > "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the > sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. (Given that > they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the other, it's > hard to tell.) > > Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they start with > a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon version that > doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a certain > segment of the population - many of whom never considered keeping fish > before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has > become a must-have piece of décor. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48998	From: Ray	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

There must be some error in the figures of either the pond volume or the pond length (more likely the pond volume if it's housing a dozen Koi). Koi can easily exceed 30" in length, and approach 36", so I tend to doubt they're in only 450 gallons even if they're only 8" long right now. For a 14 1/2 foot long pond to contain only 450 gallons of water, it would have to be either 24" wide X 25" deep (high), or 35" Wide X 17" deep -- or a similar equivalent of -- which is extremely odd especially if either the fish want to turn around when full grown (as in the first example), or they don't want to scrape their bellies on the bottom (as in the second example). Quite likely too, that these may well be full grown fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems overstocked to > me... am I right? > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn > > > > [Site may require registration.] > > > > The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On > > > > By JENNIFER A. KINGSON > > Published: August 18, 2010 > > > > KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from among the > > 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- foot, > > 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is > > fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. > > > > "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two small > > children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." > > > > Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects motorcycles > > and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, goes to > > the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch of a > > button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be colorless - a > > vivid blue. > > > > "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the > > sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. (Given that > > they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the other, it's > > hard to tell.) > > > > Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they start with > > a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon version that > > doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a certain > > segment of the population - many of whom never considered keeping fish > > before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has > > become a must-have piece of décor. > > > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > > > \\Steve// > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 48999	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

Well, I would not assume anything with these rich folk tanks. I know some of the people who supply these tanks in and around NY/CT/DC etc and it's not very appealing stuff. It's more about the decor and upholstery than the fish care, and if the client is willing to pay for it, they can have whatever they think looks good with their patios/furniture/drapes. One such supplier to the uber-rich has a display store with a table in it, for goldfish, I guess, and it's a flat table with maybe eight inches of depth for substrate and water. One of those things that looks cool, costs a fortune and stinks for the fish. :( Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Ray wrote: > > > There must be some error in the figures of either the pond volume > or the pond length (more likely the pond volume if it's housing a > dozen Koi). Koi can easily exceed 30" in length, and approach 36", > so I tend to doubt they're in only 450 gallons even if they're only > 8" long right now. > > For a 14 1/2 foot long pond to contain only 450 gallons of water, > it would have to be either 24" wide X 25" deep (high), or 35" Wide > X 17" deep -- or a similar equivalent of -- which is extremely odd > especially if either the fish want to turn around when full grown > (as in the first example), or they don't want to scrape their > bellies on the bottom (as in the second example). Quite likely too, > that these may well be full grown fish. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > wrote: > > > > Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems > overstocked to > > me... am I right? > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html? > pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > > > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html? > pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th> > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn > > > > > > [Site may require registration.] > > > > > > The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On > > > > > > By JENNIFER A. KINGSON > > > Published: August 18, 2010 > > > > > > KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from > among the > > > 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- > foot, > > > 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is > > > fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. > > > > > > "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two > small > > > children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." > > > > > > Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects > motorcycles > > > and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, > goes to > > > the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch > of a > > > button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be > colorless - a > > > vivid blue. > > > > > > "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the > > > sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. > (Given that > > > they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the > other, it's > > > hard to tell.) > > > > > > Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they > start with > > > a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon > version that > > > doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a > certain > > > segment of the population - many of whom never considered > keeping fish > > > before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has > > > become a must-have piece of d�cor. > > > > > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49000	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

You're right Lainey, I checked the article the tank is really 450 gallons and that's it. I also looked through all the pictures until I could find pictures of the tank and it looks like it's a long skinny barrier type tank. I bet those poor fish can't even turn around, BUT on the bright side the author said the fish were Koi but in the pictures it looks like fancy goldfish NOT Koi. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > Well, I would not assume anything with these rich folk tanks. I know > some of the people who supply these tanks in and around NY/CT/DC etc > and it's not very appealing stuff. It's more about the decor and > upholstery than the fish care, and if the client is willing to pay > for it, they can have whatever they think looks good with their > patios/furniture/drapes. > > One such supplier to the uber-rich has a display store with a table > in it, for goldfish, I guess, and it's a flat table with maybe eight > inches of depth for substrate and water. One of those things that > looks cool, costs a fortune and stinks for the fish. > > :( > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Ray wrote: > > >> There must be some error in the figures of either the pond volume >> or the pond length (more likely the pond volume if it's housing a >> dozen Koi). Koi can easily exceed 30" in length, and approach 36", >> so I tend to doubt they're in only 450 gallons even if they're only >> 8" long right now. >> >> For a 14 1/2 foot long pond to contain only 450 gallons of water, >> it would have to be either 24" wide X 25" deep (high), or 35" Wide >> X 17" deep -- or a similar equivalent of -- which is extremely odd >> especially if either the fish want to turn around when full grown >> (as in the first example), or they don't want to scrape their >> bellies on the bottom (as in the second example). Quite likely too, >> that these may well be full grown fish. Ray >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> >> wrote: >> >>> Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems >>> >> overstocked to >> >>> me... am I right? >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> Steve Szabo wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html? >>>> >> pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th >> >>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html? >>>> >> pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th> >> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn >>>> >>>> [Site may require registration.] >>>> >>>> The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On >>>> >>>> By JENNIFER A. KINGSON >>>> Published: August 18, 2010 >>>> >>>> KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from >>>> >> among the >> >>>> 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- >>>> >> foot, >> >>>> 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is >>>> fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. >>>> >>>> "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two >>>> >> small >> >>>> children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." >>>> >>>> Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects >>>> >> motorcycles >> >>>> and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, >>>> >> goes to >> >>>> the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch >>>> >> of a >> >>>> button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be >>>> >> colorless - a >> >>>> vivid blue. >>>> >>>> "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the >>>> sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. >>>> >> (Given that >> >>>> they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the >>>> >> other, it's >> >>>> hard to tell.) >>>> >>>> Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they >>>> >> start with >> >>>> a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon >>>> >> version that >> >>>> doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a >>>> >> certain >> >>>> segment of the population - many of whom never considered >>>> >> keeping fish >> >>>> before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has >>>> become a must-have piece of décor. >>>> >>>> --------<Continued at link>-------- >>>> >>>> \\Steve// >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49001	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

I went to one of these cater-to-the-millionaire stores about two months ago and there were bettas everywhere in small bowls, like maybe seventy of them. Apparently, someone had ordered two hundred bettas to use as party favors at a banquet table. These were the "returns". EEK. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 19, 2010, at 12:47 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > You're right Lainey, I checked the article the tank is really 450 > gallons and that's it. I also looked through all the pictures until I > could find pictures of the tank and it looks like it's a long skinny > barrier type tank. I bet those poor fish can't even turn around, > BUT on > the bright side the author said the fish were Koi but in the > pictures it > looks like fancy goldfish NOT Koi. > > Amber > > Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Well, I would not assume anything with these rich folk tanks. I know > > some of the people who supply these tanks in and around NY/CT/DC etc > > and it's not very appealing stuff. It's more about the decor and > > upholstery than the fish care, and if the client is willing to pay > > for it, they can have whatever they think looks good with their > > patios/furniture/drapes. > > > > One such supplier to the uber-rich has a display store with a table > > in it, for goldfish, I guess, and it's a flat table with maybe eight > > inches of depth for substrate and water. One of those things that > > looks cool, costs a fortune and stinks for the fish. > > > > :( > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > >> There must be some error in the figures of either the pond volume > >> or the pond length (more likely the pond volume if it's housing a > >> dozen Koi). Koi can easily exceed 30" in length, and approach 36", > >> so I tend to doubt they're in only 450 gallons even if they're only > >> 8" long right now. > >> > >> For a 14 1/2 foot long pond to contain only 450 gallons of water, > >> it would have to be either 24" wide X 25" deep (high), or 35" Wide > >> X 17" deep -- or a similar equivalent of -- which is extremely odd > >> especially if either the fish want to turn around when full grown > >> (as in the first example), or they don't want to scrape their > >> bellies on the bottom (as in the second example). Quite likely too, > >> that these may well be full grown fish. Ray > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems > >>> > >> overstocked to > >> > >>> me... am I right? > >>> > >>> Amber > >>> > >>> Steve Szabo wrote: > >>> > >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html? > >>>> > >> pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > >> > >>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html? > >>>> > >> pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th> > >> > >>>> http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn > >>>> > >>>> [Site may require registration.] > >>>> > >>>> The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On > >>>> > >>>> By JENNIFER A. KINGSON > >>>> Published: August 18, 2010 > >>>> > >>>> KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from > >>>> > >> among the > >> > >>>> 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- > >>>> > >> foot, > >> > >>>> 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is > >>>> fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. > >>>> > >>>> "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two > >>>> > >> small > >> > >>>> children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." > >>>> > >>>> Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects > >>>> > >> motorcycles > >> > >>>> and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, > >>>> > >> goes to > >> > >>>> the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch > >>>> > >> of a > >> > >>>> button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be > >>>> > >> colorless - a > >> > >>>> vivid blue. > >>>> > >>>> "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the > >>>> sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. > >>>> > >> (Given that > >> > >>>> they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the > >>>> > >> other, it's > >> > >>>> hard to tell.) > >>>> > >>>> Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they > >>>> > >> start with > >> > >>>> a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon > >>>> > >> version that > >> > >>>> doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a > >>>> > >> certain > >> > >>>> segment of the population - many of whom never considered > >>>> > >> keeping fish > >> > >>>> before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium > has > >>>> become a must-have piece of d�cor. > >>>> > >>>> --------<Continued at link>-------- > >>>> > >>>> \\Steve// > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..>< > ((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><� > ��`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the > digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49002	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Youngstown Area Tropical Fish Society (YATFS) WHALE of a SHOW ~ Warr

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   Youngstown Area Tropical Fish Society (YATFS) WHALE of a SHOW ~ Warren, Ohio   Date:   Sunday August 22, 2010 Time:   10:00 am - 5:00 pm Repeats:   This event repeats every day until Sunday August 22, 2010. Location:   Avalon Inn and Resort Street:   9515 E. Market St City State Zip:   Warren, Ohio 44484 Phone:   1-800 828-2566 Notes:   http://www.yatfs.com/2010showflier.pdf August 21, & 22, 2010 Tropical Fish Show and Exhibition Open to the Public ~ Free Admission Cash Prizes 41 Classes Manufacturers Spokesperson Ray ―Kingfish‖ Lucas Registration: Sat. 11 – 4 Auction Sunday NOON Auction Registration 11—1 Fish, Plants, Live foods No Hard goods No Pond plants 70/30 Split 4 Dot System The only hard goods raffled will be from Manufacturers donations. Visit www.yatfs.com for show rules, entrant form, and class list. Avalon Inn and Resort 9515 E. Market St Warren, Ohio 44484   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49003	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

Probably lucky that they put just a dozen koi in there. UI suspect he may be one who has a service take care of the tank, and they may be replacing the fish on a regular basis when they start getting too large. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquaria for Rich Folk Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems overstocked to me... am I right? Amber Steve Szabo wrote: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&em c=th > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&e mc=th> > > http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn > > [Site may require registration.] > > The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On > > By JENNIFER A. KINGSON > Published: August 18, 2010 > > KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from among the > 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- foot, > 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is > fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. > > "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two small > children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." > > Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects motorcycles > and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, goes to > the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch of a > button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be colorless - a > vivid blue. > > "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the > sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. (Given that > they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the other, it's > hard to tell.) > > Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they start with > a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon version that > doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a certain > segment of the population - many of whom never considered keeping fish > before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has > become a must-have piece of décor. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49004	From: Donna Camp	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

From a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds..... How big do the fish get that a 450 gal tank might be considered overstocked with 12 fish? Donna From: Ray Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk There must be some error in the figures of either the pond volume or the pond length (more likely the pond volume if it's housing a dozen Koi). Koi can easily exceed 30" in length, and approach 36", so I tend to doubt they're in only 450 gallons even if they're only 8" long right now. For a 14 1/2 foot long pond to contain only 450 gallons of water, it would have to be either 24" wide X 25" deep (high), or 35" Wide X 17" deep -- or a similar equivalent of -- which is extremely odd especially if either the fish want to turn around when full grown (as in the first example), or they don't want to scrape their bellies on the bottom (as in the second example). Quite likely too, that these may well be full grown fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems overstocked to > me... am I right? > > Amber > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn > > > > [Site may require registration.] > > > > The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On > > > > By JENNIFER A. KINGSON > > Published: August 18, 2010 > > > > KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from among the > > 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- foot, > > 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is > > fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. > > > > "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two small > > children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." > > > > Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects motorcycles > > and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, goes to > > the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch of a > > button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be colorless - a > > vivid blue. > > > > "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the > > sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. (Given that > > they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the other, it's > > hard to tell.) > > > > Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they start with > > a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon version that > > doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a certain > > segment of the population - many of whom never considered keeping fish > > before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has > > become a must-have piece of décor. > > > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49005	From: Ray	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

Donna, The size of the fish you ask about is stated in the post you just replied to. Looks like you didn't read it carefully enough. Koi can grow to about 3' (36"), or at least nearly so even if some fall a bit short of that. They are pond fish (for LARGE ponds) and don't belong in an aquarium -- even if the aquarium were a humongous one -- besides their size factor, Koi were bred to be viewed from the top, not from the side. I noticed that the fish container in question is an aquarium, not a pond as I had assumed from the length given (14 1/2 feet). I go along with \\Steve// when he guesses that the fish are periodically replaced as they grow, to keep them to a manageable size. If this were done, there would hardly be enough room for two grown fish to pass, let alone try to turn around -- assuming for a moment that 450 gallons would sustain them < g >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Donna Camp" <drollier@...> wrote: > > From a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds..... How big do the fish get that a 450 gal tank might be considered overstocked with 12 fish? > > Donna > > > From: Ray > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:51 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk > > There must be some error in the figures of either the pond volume or the pond length (more likely the pond volume if it's housing a dozen Koi). Koi can easily exceed 30" in length, and approach 36", so I tend to doubt they're in only 450 gallons even if they're only 8" long right now. > > For a 14 1/2 foot long pond to contain only 450 gallons of water, it would have to be either 24" wide X 25" deep (high), or 35" Wide X 17" deep -- or a similar equivalent of -- which is extremely odd especially if either the fish want to turn around when full grown (as in the first example), or they don't want to scrape their bellies on the bottom (as in the second example). Quite likely too, that these may well be full grown fish. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems overstocked to > > me... am I right? > > > > Amber > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > > > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th> > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn > > > > > > [Site may require registration.] > > > > > > The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On > > > > > > By JENNIFER A. KINGSON > > > Published: August 18, 2010 > > > > > > KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from among the > > > 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- foot, > > > 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is > > > fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. > > > > > > "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two small > > > children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." > > > > > > Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects motorcycles > > > and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, goes to > > > the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch of a > > > button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be colorless - a > > > vivid blue. > > > > > > "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the > > > sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. (Given that > > > they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the other, it's > > > hard to tell.) > > > > > > Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they start with > > > a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon version that > > > doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a certain > > > segment of the population - many of whom never considered keeping fish > > > before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has > > > become a must-have piece of décor. > > > > > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49006	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/19/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

They are fancy goldfish Ray not Koi, I checked the pictures and they're definitely wide bodied goldfish (I don't know what kind specifically the the type that usually has the big scary eyes, LOL). Amber Ray wrote: > > > > Donna, The size of the fish you ask about is stated in the post you > just replied to. Looks like you didn't read it carefully enough. Koi > can grow to about 3' (36"), or at least nearly so even if some fall a > bit short of that. They are pond fish (for LARGE ponds) and don't > belong in an aquarium -- even if the aquarium were a humongous one -- > besides their size factor, Koi were bred to be viewed from the top, > not from the side. > > I noticed that the fish container in question is an aquarium, not a > pond as I had assumed from the length given (14 1/2 feet). I go along > with \\Steve// when he guesses that the fish are periodically replaced > as they grow, to keep them to a manageable size. If this were done, > there would hardly be enough room for two grown fish to pass, let > alone try to turn around -- assuming for a moment that 450 gallons > would sustain them < g >. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Donna Camp" <drollier@...> wrote: > > > > From a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds..... How big > do the fish get that a 450 gal tank might be considered overstocked > with 12 fish? > > > > Donna > > > > > > From: Ray > > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:51 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk > > > > There must be some error in the figures of either the pond volume or > the pond length (more likely the pond volume if it's housing a dozen > Koi). Koi can easily exceed 30" in length, and approach 36", so I tend > to doubt they're in only 450 gallons even if they're only 8" long > right now. > > > > For a 14 1/2 foot long pond to contain only 450 gallons of water, it > would have to be either 24" wide X 25" deep (high), or 35" Wide X 17" > deep -- or a similar equivalent of -- which is extremely odd > especially if either the fish want to turn around when full grown (as > in the first example), or they don't want to scrape their bellies on > the bottom (as in the second example). Quite likely too, that these > may well be full grown fish. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > wrote: > > > > > > Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems overstocked to > > > me... am I right? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th> > > > > > > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th>> > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn > > > > > > > > [Site may require registration.] > > > > > > > > The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On > > > > > > > > By JENNIFER A. KINGSON > > > > Published: August 18, 2010 > > > > > > > > KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from > among the > > > > 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- foot, > > > > 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is > > > > fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. > > > > > > > > "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two > small > > > > children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." > > > > > > > > Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects > motorcycles > > > > and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, > goes to > > > > the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch > of a > > > > button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be colorless > - a > > > > vivid blue. > > > > > > > > "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the > > > > sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. (Given > that > > > > they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the other, > it's > > > > hard to tell.) > > > > > > > > Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they start > with > > > > a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon version > that > > > > doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a > certain > > > > segment of the population - many of whom never considered > keeping fish > > > > before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has > > > > become a must-have piece of décor. > > > > > > > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49007	From: Eldred	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Just got abroad...

Hi all Joined this forum recently. Just a short note to say hi. I'm writing from Malaysia. Cheews.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49008	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

Hi Amber, Yes, I saw your earlier message to Lainey on this same thread, telling her that these fish are fancy goldfish. I hadn't seen the photos of the fish, but just went by how they were described. Thanks for checking that out -- that's a big relief from what we were first led to believe. As wide/round bodied goldfish need about (at least) 35 gallons each, even as Lenny has often stated, it looks like 450 gallons would just be large enough for 12 of these full sized fish (with 2 1/2 gallons to spare -- < g >). Could have used lots more volume though, instead of barely the minimum. Yeah, this could include those ones with the big scary eyes -- LOL -- some of which really look grotesque. The only reason why I mentioned the size of Koi, even after reading your original message on these fish being goldfish, was in answer to Donna's reply/question to the post I wrote before you discovered they were goldfish, asking me how large the Koi I wrote about get. I'm glad to see these 12 fish are more manageable -- and that since they're goldfish, they won't grow quite as fast either (unless they're full grown now ?). As a comparison, Koi are much faster growers since they get to a much large size at maturity. A 14" Koi, for instance, can easily grow 6" in one season, a season for much of the lower 48 States generally being from late-March, April when the water warms up through late-September, mid-October when the water starts cooling down -- so this same fish can be 20" by the Fall. Thanks for checking into the pics of these fish. I haven't read any other dimensions of the tank's size, but now a 24" wide X 25" high tank would seem very feasible for these fish. It must look nice running the 14 1/2'length of a wall, but something beyond most of our means. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > They are fancy goldfish Ray not Koi, I checked the pictures and they're > definitely wide bodied goldfish (I don't know what kind specifically the > the type that usually has the big scary eyes, LOL). > > Amber > > Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > Donna, The size of the fish you ask about is stated in the post you > > just replied to. Looks like you didn't read it carefully enough. Koi > > can grow to about 3' (36"), or at least nearly so even if some fall a > > bit short of that. They are pond fish (for LARGE ponds) and don't > > belong in an aquarium -- even if the aquarium were a humongous one -- > > besides their size factor, Koi were bred to be viewed from the top, > > not from the side. > > > > I noticed that the fish container in question is an aquarium, not a > > pond as I had assumed from the length given (14 1/2 feet). I go along > > with \\Steve// when he guesses that the fish are periodically replaced > > as they grow, to keep them to a manageable size. If this were done, > > there would hardly be enough room for two grown fish to pass, let > > alone try to turn around -- assuming for a moment that 450 gallons > > would sustain them < g >. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Donna Camp" <drollier@> wrote: > > > > > > From a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds..... How big > > do the fish get that a 450 gal tank might be considered overstocked > > with 12 fish? > > > > > > Donna > > > > > > > > > From: Ray > > > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:51 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk > > > > > > There must be some error in the figures of either the pond volume or > > the pond length (more likely the pond volume if it's housing a dozen > > Koi). Koi can easily exceed 30" in length, and approach 36", so I tend > > to doubt they're in only 450 gallons even if they're only 8" long > > right now. > > > > > > For a 14 1/2 foot long pond to contain only 450 gallons of water, it > > would have to be either 24" wide X 25" deep (high), or 35" Wide X 17" > > deep -- or a similar equivalent of -- which is extremely odd > > especially if either the fish want to turn around when full grown (as > > in the first example), or they don't want to scrape their bellies on > > the bottom (as in the second example). Quite likely too, that these > > may well be full grown fish. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hmm, a dozen koi in just 450 gallons?? That tank seems overstocked to > > > > me... am I right? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th> > > > > > > > > > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th > > <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th>> > > > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3y3xrdn > > > > > > > > > > [Site may require registration.] > > > > > > > > > > The Six-Figure Fish Tank Catches On > > > > > > > > > > By JENNIFER A. KINGSON > > > > > Published: August 18, 2010 > > > > > > > > > > KARIN WILZIG has a hard time choosing a favorite color from > > among the > > > > > 64 that she and her husband can use to illuminate the 14 1/2- foot, > > > > > 450-gallon aquarium in their TriBeCa town house. The default is > > > > > fuchsia, which turns the dozen koi a deep pink. > > > > > > > > > > "Not pink," said Mrs. Wilzig, 40, an artist and a mother of two > > small > > > > > children. "Alan, go to the turquoise." > > > > > > > > > > Her husband, Alan Wilzig, 45, a former banker who collects > > motorcycles > > > > > and prides himself on the orange tanning bed in his basement, > > goes to > > > > > the James Bond-like control panel in the kitchen, where a touch > > of a > > > > > button turns the fish - which are specially bred to be colorless > > - a > > > > > vivid blue. > > > > > > > > > > "I think they like that," he said, walking down the steps to the > > > > > sunken living room to admire the fish from another angle. (Given > > that > > > > > they do nothing but swim from one side of the tank to the other, > > it's > > > > > hard to tell.) > > > > > > > > > > Most people who keep fish have a tank or two; perhaps they start > > with > > > > > a five-gallon model and graduate to the 35- or 50-gallon version > > that > > > > > doctors put in waiting rooms to keep patients calm. But for a > > certain > > > > > segment of the population - many of whom never considered > > keeping fish > > > > > before they had a big space to decorate - a showpiece aquarium has > > > > > become a must-have piece of décor. > > > > > > > > > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49009	From: Donna Camp	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

I DID read the size of the fish in the article - and I read the article on the NYT website. YOU apparently did not read where I said I was "a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds". I was hoping for an explanation of why the amount of fish, if the aquarium is well designed like the article suggests it may be, why the number is bad. I only have indorr, freshwater aquariums the largest of which is 55 gal. I'll go back into lurkdom now. Donna From: Ray Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk Donna, The size of the fish you ask about is stated in the post you just replied to. Looks like you didn't read it carefully enough. Koi can grow to about 3' (36"), or at least nearly so even if some fall a bit short of that. They are pond fish (for LARGE ponds) and don't belong in an aquarium -- even if the aquarium were a humongous one -- besides their size factor, Koi were bred to be viewed from the top, not from the side. I noticed that the fish container in question is an aquarium, not a pond as I had assumed from the length given (14 1/2 feet). I go along with \\Steve// when he guesses that the fish are periodically replaced as they grow, to keep them to a manageable size. If this were done, there would hardly be enough room for two grown fish to pass, let alone try to turn around -- assuming for a moment that 450 gallons would sustain them < g >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Donna Camp" <drollier@...> wrote: > > From a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds..... How big do the fish get that a 450 gal tank might be considered overstocked with 12 fish? > > Donna > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49010	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

Hi Donna, I just approved your latest message for posting, and thank you for the additional input. I'm having a difficult time understanding the gist of your statements though and having a hard time following you, for which I apologize. Perhaps I'm missing something in the transition of all this. First, so as not to confuse things any further for me as I read your latest post, by your reading the size of the fish in the "article," I'm taking this to mean that you did read the size of the fish as I stated them to be in my first message concerning their size. If this is what you just now meant, it didn't seem obvious to me that you had read that and were aware of the size that Koi can get to, only because you had asked this question about these fish's size as you replied to my message already stating their size. I hope you'll please forgive me, but by your question, it appeared to me that you must have missed the part where I stated their size, or else you probably wouldn't have asked me about their size all over again. Yes, I certainly did read where you said you were "a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds," but as I had already given you their size, in my message that you replied to, I saw this as supplying you with this previously unknown knowledge about Koi. In doing so, I just assumed you might realize that most any average fish (and it doesn't need to be a Koi), of 36" would need about 450 gallons just for itself -- one fish. I was not aware though, that you were specifically asking why the number of these fish (12) was bad for being maintained in 450 gallons of water -- and I am assuming you read that there was only 450 gallons of water -- if not, I again apologize. Naturally, 12 of any kind of fish of a length of 36" each requires much more water than only 450 gallons, but I didn't think that needed an explanation (my apologies again), as I thought this might be obvious to most anyone, but I'm sorry if it wasn't that obvious to you. Perhaps if you just tried picturing a 36" long fish (any kind) in an average size aquarium of let's say, 50 gallons for starters, this one fish would be as long as the tank. In a 75 gallon tank, a 36" fish would tank up 3/4 the length of the tank and in a 100 gallon tank, a 36" fish would take up 3/5 of the length of the tank -- and wouldn't be able to turn around in any one of those tanks. Picture now, 12 of these 36" long fish in only 4 1/2 times (450 gallons) the size of a 100 gallon tank -- or 9 times the size of a 50 gallon tank that even just one 36" took up the entire length of the tank, then perhaps it would be more easily understood why 12 fish of 36" would need considerably more space. I'm hoping my verbal/written explanation of why 12 fish of this size would be far too crowded for 450 gallons may be clear enough, and I regret any misunderstanding. I do wish you don't remain in lurkdom for too long. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Donna Camp" <drollier@...> wrote: > > I DID read the size of the fish in the article - and I read the article on the NYT website. YOU apparently did not read where I said I was "a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds". I was hoping for an explanation of why the amount of fish, if the aquarium is well designed like the article suggests it may be, why the number is bad. I only have indoor, freshwater aquariums the largest of which is 55 gal. > > I'll go back into lurkdom now. > > Donna > > > From: Ray > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk > > > > > > Donna, The size of the fish you ask about is stated in the post you just replied to. Looks like you didn't read it carefully enough. Koi can grow to about 3' (36"), or at least nearly so even if some fall a bit short of that. They are pond fish (for LARGE ponds) and don't belong in an aquarium -- even if the aquarium were a humongous one -- besides their size factor, Koi were bred to be viewed from the top, not from the side. > > I noticed that the fish container in question is an aquarium, not a pond as I had assumed from the length given (14 1/2 feet). I go along with \\Steve// when he guesses that the fish are periodically replaced as they grow, to keep them to a manageable size. If this were done, there would hardly be enough room for two grown fish to pass, let alone try to turn around -- assuming for a moment that 450 gallons would sustain them < g >. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Donna Camp" <drollier@> wrote: > > > > From a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds..... How big do the fish get that a 450 gal tank might be considered overstocked with 12 fish? > > > > Donna > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49011	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Just got abroad...

Hi Eldred, Selamat Datangi (Welcome)! Glad you found us here. From what I see, you just joined the forum today (August 20th), happy to have you with us. I notice you mentioning you're writing from Malaysia, and live in Kuching, the capital of Sarawak -- also known as Bumi Kenyalang ("Home of the Hornbills"). You must enjoy it there, with the beautiful waterfront and the view of the mountains in the distance. Are there any tropical fish shops on India Street, or in the India Street Mall? How about any fish shops along the Main Bazaar? Hope to see more of you here soon. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eldred" <eldredsawk@...> wrote: > > Hi all > Joined this forum recently. Just a short note to say hi. I'm writing from Malaysia. Cheews. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49012	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

Hi all I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. Here is my info 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants Most recent water readings (3 days ago) pH 7.4 Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm Nitrate 0ppm One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I am growing algae right now. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49013	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

Donna I just wanted to point out that Ray was not trying to be mean or rude to you, he simply thought you missed the information that he had posted and was pointing it out again. Basically Koi are huge fish (as you might notice from Ray's more recent post describing their size compared to your 55 gallon tank). It is actually quite bad that the author of this article did not bother to do better research before stating that the fish in the tank are Koi when they are most definitely not Koi from the pictures I looked at. So any fish lover is going to read that article and just about have a heart attack at the thought of putting 12 Koi into a 450 gallon tank, LOL. Please don't go back to lurking, just remember it's easy to think people are being rude when you're reading text since you can't see body language or hear tones of their voice, Ray really is a nice guy, right everyone? :) Amber Donna Camp wrote: > > I DID read the size of the fish in the article - and I read the > article on the NYT website. YOU apparently did not read where I said I > was "a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds". I was hoping > for an explanation of why the amount of fish, if the aquarium is well > designed like the article suggests it may be, why the number is bad. I > only have indorr, freshwater aquariums the largest of which is 55 gal. > > I'll go back into lurkdom now. > > Donna > > From: Ray > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk > > Donna, The size of the fish you ask about is stated in the post you > just replied to. Looks like you didn't read it carefully enough. Koi > can grow to about 3' (36"), or at least nearly so even if some fall a > bit short of that. They are pond fish (for LARGE ponds) and don't > belong in an aquarium -- even if the aquarium were a humongous one -- > besides their size factor, Koi were bred to be viewed from the top, > not from the side. > > I noticed that the fish container in question is an aquarium, not a > pond as I had assumed from the length given (14 1/2 feet). I go along > with \\Steve// when he guesses that the fish are periodically replaced > as they grow, to keep them to a manageable size. If this were done, > there would hardly be enough room for two grown fish to pass, let > alone try to turn around -- assuming for a moment that 450 gallons > would sustain them < g >. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Donna Camp" <drollier@...> wrote: > > > > From a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds..... How big > do the fish get that a 450 gal tank might be considered overstocked > with 12 fish? > > > > Donna > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49014	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

My first question would be:  "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"?   Bill --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> wrote: From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM Hi all I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. Here is my info 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants Most recent water readings (3 days ago) pH 7.4 Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm Nitrate 0ppm One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider.  In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus.  One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday.  I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really.  And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week.  I am growing algae right now. Any thoughts?  Thanks for your help! ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49015	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Substrate for breeding tank

I am trying to breed my licorice gouramis in a bare-bottomed five gallon tank with plenty of blackwater, plants, cover, caves and so forth. However, I notice that they are happier in their regular tank with black sand. They are calmer and their colors are better when they have the black substrate - and this makes sense given how shy and nervous they are. Many successful Euro breeders use peat, but I don't want to get into all the issues with peat. My question is, can I use black sand, or will the babies easily fall through the sand should they end up there (these are bubble-nest builders but babies obviously fall out of the bubbles)? And even if some babies were to fall through, maybe it's worth it if the parents will be that much happier? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49016	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank

Hi Lainey! An easy out? Leave the bottom of the tank bare; ease of cleaning and finding babies! But, paint the outside bottom black or dark blue. Calms the fish down and no worries about the children getting trapped in the gravel. Bill --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate for breeding tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 11:59 AM > I am trying to breed my licorice > gouramis in a bare-bottomed five  > gallon tank with plenty of blackwater, plants, cover, caves > and so  > forth. However, I notice that they are happier in their > regular tank  > with black sand. They are calmer and their colors are > better when  > they have the black substrate - and this makes sense given > how shy  > and nervous they are. Many successful Euro breeders use > peat, but I  > don't want to get into all the issues with peat. > > My question is, can I use black sand, or will the babies > easily fall  > through the sand should they end up there (these are > bubble-nest  > builders but babies obviously fall out of the bubbles)? And > even if  > some babies were to fall through, maybe it's worth it if > the parents  > will be that much happier? > > Thanks, > > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49017	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank

That is a good idea, Bill. But I think there might be something about the sand itself that is comforting to them in the other tanks (non- breeding). I can't explain it, but they spend lots of time almost nestling into the sand and scruffing around in it. Then at night I notice they sleep kind of mushed into the sand. I think they have a symbiotic relationship with the ground medium in their natural habitat - they must. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:26 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > Hi Lainey! > > An easy out? Leave the bottom of the tank bare; ease of cleaning > and finding babies! But, paint the outside bottom black or dark blue. > Calms the fish down and no worries about the children getting trapped > in the gravel. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate for breeding tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 11:59 AM > > I am trying to breed my licorice > > gouramis in a bare-bottomed five > > gallon tank with plenty of blackwater, plants, cover, caves > > and so > > forth. However, I notice that they are happier in their > > regular tank > > with black sand. They are calmer and their colors are > > better when > > they have the black substrate - and this makes sense given > > how shy > > and nervous they are. Many successful Euro breeders use > > peat, but I > > don't want to get into all the issues with peat. > > > > My question is, can I use black sand, or will the babies > > easily fall > > through the sand should they end up there (these are > > bubble-nest > > builders but babies obviously fall out of the bubbles)? And > > even if > > some babies were to fall through, maybe it's worth it if > > the parents > > will be that much happier? > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49018	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank

Is there some sort of filter medium that could be substituted instead of the sand? You could put a rock on each corner and stretch it across the bottom so it lays flat and babies may not have as many problems as they might with the sand. Just an idea. Amber Lainey Alexander wrote: > That is a good idea, Bill. But I think there might be something about > the sand itself that is comforting to them in the other tanks (non- > breeding). I can't explain it, but they spend lots of time almost > nestling into the sand and scruffing around in it. Then at night I > notice they sleep kind of mushed into the sand. I think they have a > symbiotic relationship with the ground medium in their natural > habitat - they must. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:26 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > >> Hi Lainey! >> >> An easy out? Leave the bottom of the tank bare; ease of cleaning >> and finding babies! But, paint the outside bottom black or dark blue. >> Calms the fish down and no worries about the children getting trapped >> in the gravel. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: >> >> >>> From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate for breeding tank >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>> Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 11:59 AM >>> I am trying to breed my licorice >>> gouramis in a bare-bottomed five >>> gallon tank with plenty of blackwater, plants, cover, caves >>> and so >>> forth. However, I notice that they are happier in their >>> regular tank >>> with black sand. They are calmer and their colors are >>> better when >>> they have the black substrate - and this makes sense given >>> how shy >>> and nervous they are. Many successful Euro breeders use >>> peat, but I >>> don't want to get into all the issues with peat. >>> >>> My question is, can I use black sand, or will the babies >>> easily fall >>> through the sand should they end up there (these are >>> bubble-nest >>> builders but babies obviously fall out of the bubbles)? And >>> even if >>> some babies were to fall through, maybe it's worth it if >>> the parents >>> will be that much happier? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> Lainey >>> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >>> >>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when >>> replying, Thank You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is >>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of >>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new >>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>> , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by >>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a >>> time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to >>> read messages on the group and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49019	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank

10-4 on the sand Lainey but my thoughts are "How ya gonna keep it clean enough for those babies"?  Now that's a real head scratcher!   Bill --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Substrate for breeding tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 12:34 PM > That is a good idea, Bill. But I > think there might be something about  > the sand itself that is comforting to them in the other > tanks (non- > breeding). I can't explain it, but they spend lots of time > almost  > nestling into the sand and scruffing around in it. Then at > night I  > notice they sleep kind of mushed into the sand. I think > they have a  > symbiotic relationship with the ground medium in their > natural  > habitat - they must. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:26 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > Hi Lainey! > > > > An easy out? Leave the bottom of the tank bare; ease > of cleaning > > and finding babies! But, paint the outside bottom > black or dark blue. > > Calms the fish down and no worries about the children > getting trapped > > in the gravel. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate for breeding > tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 11:59 AM > > > I am trying to breed my licorice > > > gouramis in a bare-bottomed five > > > gallon tank with plenty of blackwater, plants, > cover, caves > > > and so > > > forth. However, I notice that they are happier in > their > > > regular tank > > > with black sand. They are calmer and their colors > are > > > better when > > > they have the black substrate - and this makes > sense given > > > how shy > > > and nervous they are. Many successful Euro > breeders use > > > peat, but I > > > don't want to get into all the issues with peat. > > > > > > My question is, can I use black sand, or will the > babies > > > easily fall > > > through the sand should they end up there (these > are > > > bubble-nest > > > builders but babies obviously fall out of the > bubbles)? And > > > even if > > > some babies were to fall through, maybe it's > worth it if > > > the parents > > > will be that much happier? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49020	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank

Not worried, they're near microscopic and I will be removing the whopping one inch long parents:) Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:43 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > 10-4 on the sand Lainey but my thoughts are "How ya gonna keep it > clean > enough for those babies"? Now that's a real head scratcher! > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Substrate for breeding tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 12:34 PM > > That is a good idea, Bill. But I > > think there might be something about > > the sand itself that is comforting to them in the other > > tanks (non- > > breeding). I can't explain it, but they spend lots of time > > almost > > nestling into the sand and scruffing around in it. Then at > > night I > > notice they sleep kind of mushed into the sand. I think > > they have a > > symbiotic relationship with the ground medium in their > > natural > > habitat - they must. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:26 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > Hi Lainey! > > > > > > An easy out? Leave the bottom of the tank bare; ease > > of cleaning > > > and finding babies! But, paint the outside bottom > > black or dark blue. > > > Calms the fish down and no worries about the children > > getting trapped > > > in the gravel. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate for breeding > > tank > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 11:59 AM > > > > I am trying to breed my licorice > > > > gouramis in a bare-bottomed five > > > > gallon tank with plenty of blackwater, plants, > > cover, caves > > > > and so > > > > forth. However, I notice that they are happier in > > their > > > > regular tank > > > > with black sand. They are calmer and their colors > > are > > > > better when > > > > they have the black substrate - and this makes > > sense given > > > > how shy > > > > and nervous they are. Many successful Euro > > breeders use > > > > peat, but I > > > > don't want to get into all the issues with peat. > > > > > > > > My question is, can I use black sand, or will the > > babies > > > > easily fall > > > > through the sand should they end up there (these > > are > > > > bubble-nest > > > > builders but babies obviously fall out of the > > bubbles)? And > > > > even if > > > > some babies were to fall through, maybe it's > > worth it if > > > > the parents > > > > will be that much happier? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Lainey > > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > > > �.���`�.�. , > > .���`�..><((((�> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> > > �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. > > , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49021	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: 22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII)

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII) Orlando, FL   Date:   Friday September 3, 2010 Time:   10:00 am - 7:00 pm Repeats:   This event repeats every day until Sunday September 5, 2010. Location:   Marriott Resort and Convention Hotel City State Zip:   Orlando Florida Notes:   http://www.macna2010.com/Speaker_Schedule September 3-5, 2010 The Marine Aquarium Conference of North America, (MACNA) is the largest and oldest marine aquarium conference held in the US and Canada. Hobbyists at all skill levels have been enjoying MACNA for over twenty years. Aquarium enthusiasts and avid reef keepers will have the opportunity to meet and mingle with peers and professionals. Learn from leading researchers in the fields of aquaculture, marine biology, diving and oceanography. Discover new technologies and purchase cutting edge equipment. Conference attendees will have an opportunity to purchase some of finest handpicked corals from over 100 vendors. But that’s not all! Get ready for a huge raffle. Marine reef keeping equipment, supplies and countless other highly sought after items will all be raffled off. You can purchase your raffle tickets when you register for your full conference pass. Enjoy the open bar and reception dinner Friday night, as well as the spectacular Saturday night banquet! MACNA XXII will be held in sunny Orlando Florida at the world’s largest Marriott Resort and Convention Hotel on September 3-5, 2010 (Labor Day Weekend). Yes, MACNA will only be minutes from Walt Disney World®, Sea World, and Universal Studios. Check out the Travel Page for more information on this amazing resort and the Attraction Information page for Discounted Tickets to Walt Disney World® and many other theme parks. Don’t miss this opportunity to Register NOW while conference ticket prices are low.   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49022	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons. I vaccum the gravel at that time. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > My first question would be:  "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"? >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > Hi all > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > Here is my info > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > pH 7.4 > Ammonia 0ppm > Nitrite 0ppm > Nitrate 0ppm > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider.  In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus.  One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday.  I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really.  And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week.  I am growing algae right now. > > Any thoughts?  Thanks for your help! > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49023	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

The next thing to try is another water change say every 4 days.  Make sure there is no stress to the fish.  It may be your tank is crowded a bit. Did you have this trouble BEFORE or AFTER you added those new fish? Also remember that with that divider in there, it does cut the swimming room.   Bill --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> wrote: From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 4:18 PM I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons.  I vaccum the gravel at that time. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > My first question would be:  "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"? >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > Hi all > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > Here is my info > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > pH 7.4 > Ammonia 0ppm > Nitrite 0ppm > Nitrate 0ppm > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider.  In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus.  One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday.  I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really.  And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week.  I am growing algae right now. > > Any thoughts?  Thanks for your help! > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49024	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

The best! -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:17 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk Donna I just wanted to point out that Ray was not trying to be mean or rude to you, he simply thought you missed the information that he had posted and was pointing it out again. Basically Koi are huge fish (as you might notice from Ray's more recent post describing their size compared to your 55 gallon tank). It is actually quite bad that the author of this article did not bother to do better research before stating that the fish in the tank are Koi when they are most definitely not Koi from the pictures I looked at. So any fish lover is going to read that article and just about have a heart attack at the thought of putting 12 Koi into a 450 gallon tank, LOL. Please don't go back to lurking, just remember it's easy to think people are being rude when you're reading text since you can't see body language or hear tones of their voice, Ray really is a nice guy, right everyone? :) Amber Donna Camp wrote: > > I DID read the size of the fish in the article - and I read the > article on the NYT website. YOU apparently did not read where I said I > was "a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds". I was hoping > for an explanation of why the amount of fish, if the aquarium is well > designed like the article suggests it may be, why the number is bad. I > only have indorr, freshwater aquariums the largest of which is 55 gal. > > I'll go back into lurkdom now. > > Donna > > From: Ray > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk > > Donna, The size of the fish you ask about is stated in the post you > just replied to. Looks like you didn't read it carefully enough. Koi > can grow to about 3' (36"), or at least nearly so even if some fall a > bit short of that. They are pond fish (for LARGE ponds) and don't > belong in an aquarium -- even if the aquarium were a humongous one -- > besides their size factor, Koi were bred to be viewed from the top, > not from the side. > > I noticed that the fish container in question is an aquarium, not a > pond as I had assumed from the length given (14 1/2 feet). I go along > with \\Steve// when he guesses that the fish are periodically replaced > as they grow, to keep them to a manageable size. If this were done, > there would hardly be enough room for two grown fish to pass, let > alone try to turn around -- assuming for a moment that 450 gallons > would sustain them < g >. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Donna Camp" <drollier@...> wrote: > > > > From a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds..... How big > do the fish get that a 450 gal tank might be considered overstocked > with 12 fish? > > > > Donna > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49025	From: Lisa	Date: 8/20/2010
Subject: Danios?

Can i put golden Medakas and zebra/leopard danios in with goldfish? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49026	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Substrate for breeding tank

Lainey, Use a dark colored sand. Let the parents worry about any that may fall out of the nest. Use just enough to cover the bottom of the tank, and not let any light through. \\Steve// Temporarily residing in Sturbridge. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Substrate for breeding tank I am trying to breed my licorice gouramis in a bare-bottomed five gallon tank with plenty of blackwater, plants, cover, caves and so forth. However, I notice that they are happier in their regular tank with black sand. They are calmer and their colors are better when they have the black substrate - and this makes sense given how shy and nervous they are. Many successful Euro breeders use peat, but I don't want to get into all the issues with peat. My question is, can I use black sand, or will the babies easily fall through the sand should they end up there (these are bubble-nest builders but babies obviously fall out of the bubbles)? And even if some babies were to fall through, maybe it's worth it if the parents will be that much happier? Thanks, Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49027	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Danios?

Lisa, If you are providing more than 30 US gallons per goldfish, I do not see a problem adding some medakas to the tank. The temperature and water requirements for them are similar to that of goldfish. I'd be hesitant with the zebra danios since, without looking them up, I believe they are more comfortable at a higher water temperature. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Danios? Can i put golden Medakas and zebra/leopard danios in with goldfish? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49028	From: William M	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Danios?

The zebra danios can take lower temps but the thing that I see is that the goldfish when larger might think of the smaller fish as snakes. That is if you are going to be having the single tailed "common type" of goldfish. Whereas if you are going to have the slower "egg shaped" fancy goldfish, that should not b e a problem. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > Lisa, > > If you are providing more than 30 US gallons per goldfish, I do not see a problem adding some medakas to the tank. The temperature and water requirements for them are similar to that of goldfish. > > I'd be hesitant with the zebra danios since, without looking them up, I believe they are more comfortable at a higher water temperature. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Danios? > > Can i put golden Medakas and zebra/leopard danios in with goldfish? > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49029	From: Ray	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk

Thank you Amber B., and Donna R. -- your kind words are most appreciated. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > The best! > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:17 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk > > Donna I just wanted to point out that Ray was not trying to be mean or > rude to you, he simply thought you missed the information that he had > posted and was pointing it out again. Basically Koi are huge fish (as > you might notice from Ray's more recent post describing their size > compared to your 55 gallon tank). It is actually quite bad that the > author of this article did not bother to do better research before > stating that the fish in the tank are Koi when they are most definitely > not Koi from the pictures I looked at. So any fish lover is going to > read that article and just about have a heart attack at the thought of > putting 12 Koi into a 450 gallon tank, LOL. > > Please don't go back to lurking, just remember it's easy to think people > are being rude when you're reading text since you can't see body > language or hear tones of their voice, Ray really is a nice guy, right > everyone? :) > > Amber > > Donna Camp wrote: > > > > I DID read the size of the fish in the article - and I read the > > article on the NYT website. YOU apparently did not read where I said I > > was "a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds". I was hoping > > for an explanation of why the amount of fish, if the aquarium is well > > designed like the article suggests it may be, why the number is bad. I > > only have indorr, freshwater aquariums the largest of which is 55 gal. > > > > I'll go back into lurkdom now. > > > > Donna > > > > From: Ray > > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Aquaria for Rich Folk > > > > Donna, The size of the fish you ask about is stated in the post you > > just replied to. Looks like you didn't read it carefully enough. Koi > > can grow to about 3' (36"), or at least nearly so even if some fall a > > bit short of that. They are pond fish (for LARGE ponds) and don't > > belong in an aquarium -- even if the aquarium were a humongous one -- > > besides their size factor, Koi were bred to be viewed from the top, > > not from the side. > > > > I noticed that the fish container in question is an aquarium, not a > > pond as I had assumed from the length given (14 1/2 feet). I go along > > with \\Steve// when he guesses that the fish are periodically replaced > > as they grow, to keep them to a manageable size. If this were done, > > there would hardly be enough room for two grown fish to pass, let > > alone try to turn around -- assuming for a moment that 450 gallons > > would sustain them < g >. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Donna Camp" <drollier@> wrote: > > > > > > From a person who doesn't know anything about koi/ponds..... How big > > do the fish get that a 450 gal tank might be considered overstocked > > with 12 fish? > > > > > > Donna > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49030	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: 22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII)

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII) Orlando, FL   Date:   Saturday September 4, 2010 Time:   10:00 am - 7:00 pm Repeats:   This event repeats every day until Sunday September 5, 2010. Location:   Marriott Resort and Convention Hotel City State Zip:   Orlando Florida Notes:   http://www.macna2010.com/Speaker_Schedule September 3-5, 2010 The Marine Aquarium Conference of North America, (MACNA) is the largest and oldest marine aquarium conference held in the US and Canada. Hobbyists at all skill levels have been enjoying MACNA for over twenty years. Aquarium enthusiasts and avid reef keepers will have the opportunity to meet and mingle with peers and professionals. Learn from leading researchers in the fields of aquaculture, marine biology, diving and oceanography. Discover new technologies and purchase cutting edge equipment. Conference attendees will have an opportunity to purchase some of finest handpicked corals from over 100 vendors. But that’s not all! Get ready for a huge raffle. Marine reef keeping equipment, supplies and countless other highly sought after items will all be raffled off. You can purchase your raffle tickets when you register for your full conference pass. Enjoy the open bar and reception dinner Friday night, as well as the spectacular Saturday night banquet! MACNA XXII will be held in sunny Orlando Florida at the world’s largest Marriott Resort and Convention Hotel on September 3-5, 2010 (Labor Day Weekend). Yes, MACNA will only be minutes from Walt Disney World®, Sea World, and Universal Studios. Check out the Travel Page for more information on this amazing resort and the Attraction Information page for Discounted Tickets to Walt Disney World® and many other theme parks. Don’t miss this opportunity to Register NOW while conference ticket prices are low.   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49031	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

Something sounds off. After 6 months, with that population and only a 3 - 4 gallon water change each week, if those fish are being fed... there should be some trace of nitrate by now. What kind of test kits are you using? How deep is the gravel bed? How much algae is growing and what type of algae (hair algae, slime algae, etc.)? It is very unusual for algae to consume the entire nutrient level in an aquarium, and it is often nutrient levels that show up in water testing that explain the growth of the algae. Is there a way to double check the water test results using a different/new test kit, maybe at the lfs or something? (using a liquid kit) Can you offer any other symptoms, such as heavy breathing, flared gills, color change, clamped fins, etc? Also, what is the water temp? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > Hi all > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > Here is my info > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > pH 7.4 > Ammonia 0ppm > Nitrite 0ppm > Nitrate 0ppm > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I am growing algae right now. > > Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49032	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Seashine from Stray Light is the first commercially available LIFI p

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/01/26/commercially-lifi-plasma-light-hobbyists-launching/ The first commercially available LUXIM LIFI plasma arc light is coming to the aquarium market sooner than we expected. The Seashine™ aquarium light series by Stray Light Optical Technology, based in Scottsburg, Indiana, is debuting sometime in the early part of this year making way for a whole new lighting revolution in the hobby. Based on the LUXIM plasma lighting technology, the Seashine fixture is already in use at the Monterey Bay Aquarium and will soon be available to hobbyists everywhere. More details and specs after the break. A more efficient lighting option than traditional metal halide systems, the Seashine provides 180-percent higher PAR value than that of a 10,000K 400W MH fixture and using just 290W. The unit also fires up pretty quickly, achieving full brightness in 40 seconds. With a Correlated Color Temperature (CCT) of 5,300K at 100 percent, the Seashine will give you a wide spectrum of lighting possibilities. When dimmed below 50 percent, the Seashine emits a pleasant blue hue we seek in aquarium lighting with the benefits of natural sunlight at the top end. On top of that, the Seashine will feature either on-board dimming controls or a remote cord controller allowing for dimming from 20 to 100 percent. They offer integration for commercial systems as well as a plethora of other custom controlling solutions with features controllable via a mobile phone. Gone are the days of replacing MH bulbs every six to nine months, with an effective lifespan of 25,000 hours, the Seashine with provide over six years of use running at 12 hours a day. Besides the energy efficiency gained, the light fixture produces less hear and near infrared radiation that MH bulbs allowing for less reliance on chillers and other cooling devices. These lights also will be customizable to your tank's needs with a variety of stock reflectors or the ability to create a custom reflector to fit odd-shaped tanks or other lighting effects. The standard reflector will give 55 degrees of spread with other options including a 100-degree flood, a 30-degree deep and a 55- by 30-degree rectangular reflector. A nice touch with the light is the warranty and support the company provides. The warranty covers defects in materials and workmanship for five years and three years on electronics and lamp components. We are waiting to hear back from the company on suggested retail pricing and when the first units will ship and will provide more information as soon as its available. The company will begin taking pre-orders for the Seashine at the end of January.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49034	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Seashine from Stray Light is the first commercially available LI

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/02/02/new-seashine-lifi-plasma-light-rolling-out-soon-game-changer-gets-initial-pricing/ The upcoming Seashine LIFI plama lighting fixture by Stray Light Optical Technology is definitely one of most promising new technologies heading into the trade. We had the pleasure of finding out more about this light including pricing and availability from Stray Light Optical's president and CEO Gerald Rea. First and foremost, this light has been evolving over the last year or so with the version we showcased in the last post being dubbed the Beta 2 model with the newest version being the Beta 3 shown in the image above this post. With the final beta versions of this light rolling out this month, the Seashine should go into larger production in February with availability and a more formal launch set for the beginning of March. The company is evolving the light to be more appealing to our aesthetic and if all goes as planned, we hope to see the first production level Seashine lights at ReefStock. Pricing and plenty of more information after the break. So what is a light like this going to set you back? We were anticipating a large figure that could potentially price itself away from the hobby but were pleasantly surprised to hear the initial retail price of this full unit to be around $995 USD. This price includes either an analog dimming control on the module on attached remotely on cord. Also available for commercial applications is a programmable logic controller (PLC) terminal block hookup to tap into existing lighting control units. At this point, they do not directly support the main aquarium controllers on the hobby side (Digital Aquatics, Neptune, GHL Profilux) but I'm sure with a little ingenuity and programming skills, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to make the Seashine "play nice" with your existing controller to tap into fully automated lighting features. Take into consideration the costs of higher end fluorescent, metal halide and large-scale LED fixtures, under $1,000 is a great price. According to Rea, expect the price to go down as the economy of scale to produce these lights increases not only in the aquatic side, but industrial and other outside lighting applications adopt the LIFI technology. As orders come in for more units, whether it is for an aquarium, warehouse, architectural or street lighting, the production costs and supply costs will go down and we'll see that savings passed on to the customer. Another added benefit Stray Light Optical brings to the table is their extensive experience in industrial lighting and building lighting units that withstand the rigors of weather and time. While the plasma bulb itself is rated for 25,000 hours (approximately six-plus years at 12 hours a day) of use, the lighting unit itself is rated for well over 100,000 hours of use. Rea believes this to be a "lifetime" fixture for hobbyists. We can only imagine how many lighting units are out there that have been in use for over 25 years! The 5,300K bulb itself produces light very similar to the natural sunlight we see out on the reefs in nature. Dimming it down to the threshold of 20 percent will give a more blue light with plenty of punch left over to give the corals the light they need. While many hobbyists are turned off by the 5,300K temperature rating of the light, Rea points out: "There is a lot of discussion about the color being wrong for aquariums," he says. "I disagree with this, but hobbyists will have to see for themselves. It never looks yellow in any of the tanks we have tested in. All the way from full bright to 20 percent, aquariums look amazing with beautiful colors and bright fish pop out." In our last post on the Seashine, we included a graph showing the PAR output of the lamp and Rea added some insight to put his in better perspective. The PAR graphs we included are more of the convolution of the photosynthetic response with the spectral output of the lamp showing how well things like kelp will grow. We have included a normalized graph of the spectral response with the sun as a baseline, more similar to what we tend to see in analysis of other bulbs we use in the hobby. Just by looking at the photo of the light installed at the Monterey Bay Aquarium exhibit (click on picture to view full size), you can really see the amazing "pop" of colors most notably in the yellows, reds and oranges—colors we typically don't get to experience to their full potential in the heavy blue-centric lighting we've come to know in the hobby. So where are you going to be six years from now when you need to change the bulb? Don't sweat it, the process right now just calls for the removal of four screws to pop out the reflector to get access to the bulb. Also, look for this to possibly get easier down the line as the product evolves. So how much should you be stocking away for a new bulb? With the technology still in its infancy, a replacement would probably run you in the neighborhood of $150 or so, quite comparable to the costs of higher end MH and the costs of changing out six decently priced 54W T5 bulbs. Don't be surprised to see this price also shift downwards as LUXIM manufactures more of these bulbs. The reflector units aren't the bulky versions we're used to seeing with Mogul-based metal halide lights but do contain high-quality MIRO Silver maximizing the reflection of any stray light back into the tank. Rea and the company are looking for any input we may have as hobbyists to make the unit more useful and pleasant to look at, so feel free to add your input in the comments below. Overall, our impressions and hopes for this light are very positive. We are looking forward to seeing these lights first hand and getting them put through their paces in a realistic hobby environment to make a full evaluation. The entry point is priced well for a lifetime investment and we look forward to exploring this technology more in the future. Anyone looking to purchase a Beta or early production model, can contact Stray Light Optical directly by emailing info@... for full details and an accurate price quote. Rea notes there are approximately 20 units available before the full-scale launch hopefully coming this March. If you happen to be visiting the Monterey Bay Aquarium, keep a look out for the lights as they should have just under 40 units installed in the near future.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49035	From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Aquarium Inspiration : 70 Pictures of Decorative Fish Tanks

http://www.furniturestoreblog.com/2009/08/02/aquarium_inspiration_70_pictures_of_decorative_fish_tanks.html .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49036	From: Ray	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

Hi "Twin," Caught this yesterday, then got tied up with other matters that distracted my attention. Spotting the thread continuing today, would like to address your problem in hopes we can all get to the bottom of it. Noticed there have been several replies to your query in the meantime, which have brought up some food for thought, and issues that need to be cleared up. Looking over your list, I can say that you have a full compliment of aquatic animals for your 20 gallon, and then some -- in other words, your bioload is a bit excessive (you're overstocked). Just as Dawn states, "Something sounds off." You'll please excuse me for saying so, but I am highly suspicious of your Nitrate value of 0.0 ppm especially after having your tank set up now for 6 months, and with as many fish and frogs (frogs are notorious waste producers) in it as you do. While you may not be terribly overcrowded, still, with as full bioload as you have -- and with your changing out only 20% to 25% of the water weekly, a 0.0 ppm Nitrate reading is extremely questionable, particularly since you don't have live plants removing any of it. A working nitrogen cycle will result in some level of Nitrate as it's end product, after the Ammonia and Nitrite are converted and will still show some reading when a full bioload is present, when not removing enough of it mechanically, i.e., when doing PWC's (partial water changes). Your weekly 20% to 25% PWC's would not be enough to remove all of the Nitrate being produced by your present bioload and as a result, you would experience a constant build-up of this converted waste product however less harmful it may be (in comparison to the former two). If, however, your bioload were for instance to be only 1/4 that of what you now have, and you were performing at least 60% PWC's weekly, then your Nitrate would be minimal (even if not completely absent). With your present conditions though, these animals' wastes would see an elevation in Nitrate when doing insufficient water changes to remove it all. While zero readings on all three of these waste parameters you've given may sound magically perfect, you are only fooling yourself if you believe them. I'd suggest that you retest for your Nitrate, or if you're having your LFS (local fish store) do the tests for you, that you have them retest it and give you numbers as a result. I would like to point out, since you gave no indication, that parameter tests done with strips can be highly inaccurate much of the time and can produce discrepancies on a lot of other occasions. If our tests are the result of such test strips, I would recommend your obtaining liquid test kits for true accuracy in all your test results -- with A.P.I. being one of the foremost kits one can purchase, still at a reasonable price. Test strips can also result in your pH reading being off, but I can't question that yet at this time without knowing your KH. In the normal process of nitrification though, there is a natural build up over time of nitric acid which increasingly imposes it's acidifying forces on your buffering capacity causing your pH to drop. Please let us know your methods for testing your parameters. Algae needs food to grow, and Nitrate is it's main food. This alone would indicate the presence of Nitrate -- and this is why live plants would keep much of that algae at bay in starving it out as they too use Nitrate and would outcompete algae for it. One last thing (for now), when vacuuming the gravel, are you also deep cleaning it? If not, you may have a build up of waste products (and possibly excess fish food) deep within the substrate, causing your issues. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > Hi all > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > Here is my info > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > pH 7.4 > Ammonia 0ppm > Nitrite 0ppm > Nitrate 0ppm > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I am growing algae right now. > > Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49037	From: john Lewis	Date: 8/21/2010
Subject: Re: Just got abroad...

Welcome to the group!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: Eldred <eldredsawk@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 6:41:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Just got abroad...   Hi all Joined this forum recently. Just a short note to say hi. I'm writing from Malaysia. Cheews. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49038	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Animal Rights Activists Focusing on Aquarium Hobby

A short time ago I posted a story and a link here about Maui proposing to close its reefs to collectors. In and of itself, this seems to be rather innocuous, but I should have known better. Now, there is an animal rights (AR) activist group backing the move, and more may start moving in on this virgin territory. Already they are making it harder for you to own a dog, making life more difficult and expensive for dog owners by sponsoring and urging localities to pass laws that do make it harder to keep dogs (and sometimes cats) by passing legislation against specific breeds of dogs (BSL) and mandatory spay and neuter legislation mandating spay or neuter procedures for all dogs with very few exclusions allowed. This has forced people to either give up their dogs, or move to a more dog friendly community. The leader of one national AR group, Wayne Pacelle of The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) has stated, (when speaking about all domesticated animals) ". . . one generation and out . . .", meaning the end of the breed within one generation of that breed. Naturally this is not widely disseminated by the AR groups or HSUS itself. Right now, several localities are in the process of attempting to ban the sale of most animals (fish are excluded for some reason) by pet stores within their jurisdiction. Fish may soon be added here, so I'd not sit back and let this proceed without placing an objection. Those of you in SF and LA may want to research this matter RIGHT NOW. Visit this link to the site I found this morning for this most recent post I have seen on this subject: http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/editorial-100821-1.html http://tinyurl.com/2aceyal \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49039	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Novelty Aquariums as Part of the Decor

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aquaside.html?_r=4 http://tinyurl.com/293bfxu [Site may require registration.] Fish in the Furniture By JENNIFER A. KINGSON Published: August 18, 2010 Guests will find a trip to the powder room more memorable if you own the Moody Aquarium Sink, a glass basin that can be filled with goldfish or other hardy specimens for a vaguely tropical hand-washing experience. It costs $4,500, plus $75 shipping, at Opulentitems.com, which sells a variety of other oddball aquariums, including the Labyrinth ($6,500), a sculptural tank with six bubblelike chambers for the fish to choose from. If your tastes run to a 400-pound see-through coffee table with its own filtration system, look no further than the AquaTable line from Midwest Tropical. These tanks come in squares, hexagons, pentagons and other shapes, and have acrylic sides and tempered glass tops, perfect for resting your cocktail on while admiring a marine tableau. The novelty tables, which cost between $300 and $600, were the brainchild of the company's owners, Susan Burnett and her husband, Kenneth, who had been frustrated by a leaky, clunky rectangular aquarium they kept in their apartment. "We said, 'Let's think about functional furniture to fit in small spaces,'" Ms. Burnett said. "We wanted something that was translucent, something that would glow, that would add a particular design element to the room." The tables are sold by many retailers, including Petco.com and Skymall.com. At Hammacher Schlemmer, a square 25-gallon version costs about $600, plus shipping. Depending on how hard you want to look - and how much you want to spend - you can find almost any kind of aquarium you can imagine, including an aquarium headboard for your bed or an aquarium bar for your liquor collection. But be warned: products that are fun might not always be practical. -----------------Continued at Link------------------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49040	From: JenniferP	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Tank Issues

I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I mistankenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be counter productive to do a water change. I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and am trying to learn. Please be gentle. Jennifer

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49041	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: FW: AACC10 Update, 8/13/10

\\Steve// From: Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:20 AM To: Subject: AACC10 Update, 8/13/10 Hello Catfish Conventioneers! Wow, do I have big news for you! Rooms at the hotel are going like hot cakes!!! As of today we have over 220 Room Nights Booked! WOW! If you have not already reserved a room, I strongly suggest you book NOW. It's easy. Just go to: https://resweb.passkey.com/Resweb.do?mode=welcome_ei_new&eventID=2561135 PLEASE NOTE: Due to overwhelming response, there are no double rooms left in the Catfish block of rooms for the discounted rate of $90. Convention participants can still get king rooms at the discounted rate of $90 per night up until October 7th, but our block of contracted rooms is going fast! While there are no more double rooms left at the $90 rate, there are a few doubles at $105 a night which includes free internet, breakfast, water bottles, and free calling within the U.S. There are still plenty of king rooms at $90, but they are going fast. Please note that all king rooms have a fold-out bed in the living area of the suite. All rooms are suite style in this great new hotel, so book your room today! If you plan to sell out of your room, please register for the convention as soon as possible, and book your rooms with the Hyatt. In-room sales coordinator, Gerry Hoffman is working his mad skills to get all of our in-room people situated on the 9th floor of the hotel for the big shopping night on Friday night of the convention. If you have questions about in-room sales, please contact Gerry at: roomsales@... THE T-SHIRTS ARE DONE AND BOY DO WE HAVE A TERRIFIC T-SHIRT FOR YOU!!!! Check out the website for the design of the new Catfish Convention 2010 T-shirt! This time we have chosen a heathered green shirt which shows the red 2010 Catfish logo beautifully! The back of the shirt has a great drawing by our own Cristy Keister. You MUST own one! Be sure to place your order at: http://www.catfish2010.com/ The biggest news in raffles is the Margarita Tour we are offering this year. Once again Devon Graham has offered the tour as a way to support our convention. One lucky winner will win the tour at the convention. There are only 50 tickets available, so be sure to get in on the trip of a lifetime. Tickets are only $50 each and can be purchased at the registration desk at the convention or on the website at: http://www.catfish2010.com/. More details on Margarita Tours can be found at: http://www.amazon-ecotours.com/ That's all the convention news for now. Stay tuned for more updates as we get closer to October. Until then keep up the water changes! Sherry Mitchell Co-chair, AACC10 President, PVAS AACC10 ~ Where all the Cool Cats will be....... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49042	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues/Hi Jennifer

First things first. You can't ask a stupid question. It's stupid not to ask questions. We need more information on this tank in order to help. Size, inhabitants, when did you first set this tank up?. Test kit - "all your values are 0". In a cycled tank the ideal would be 0 nitrite, approx 40ppm nitrate, 0 ammonia and whatever your pH is. You should be seeing a nitrate reading. Was the test done before or after adding the Epsom salts?. Try this again. We need to stabilize this tank. Water changes at 30% once a week should be sufficient unless this tank is small and overcrowded. Summary; Don't add anything else to the water for now. No Epson salts Do a 30% water change now and then just once a week. After 24 hours test the water again and post your results. Continue feeding the peas. If he won't eat them remove them and try again next day. It's important that we have all the tank information as stated above so that we can help you. Tank water can be too clean. The tank will never stabilize if it is. Harry --- On Sun, 8/22/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 11:21 AM   I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I mistankenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be counter productive to do a water change. I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and am trying to learn. Please be gentle. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49043	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Regarding pH, test some water out of the tap after you have left it out in a bowl for 24 hours. Regarding bloat, what are the symptoms that caused you to confirm bloat? I have dealt with bloat successfully several times in African cichlids, not sure if gourami have the same vegetarian intestinal tract issues. I use metronidazole to treat bloat if the fish isn’t too sick, and if he is too sick then I use clout. But I use dosages and water change/feeding regimen that is different than what is on the packages. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JenniferP Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I mistankenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be counter productive to do a water change. I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and am trying to learn. Please be gentle. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49044	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: injured Angel Fish

Hi, All: Need some advice - I have a pair of breeding angels in my 100G tall hex that laid their eggs on the filter intake pipe - i left them be until they all turned white (not viable and getting fuzzy) so I decided to scrape them off before they got too moldy. Well, the angels, needless to say, got angry and tho I tried very hard to keep them from harm by blocking my dull plastic scraper with my hand the larger one (female?) came underneath and rammed into it and now has a dent on the top of her head. My question is, should I just leave it and watch to see if it gets worse or should I immediately treat with Melafix? The other species in the tank are bloodfin tetras, iranian red rainbows, clown loaches, apistogrammas agassizii pair, electric blue and balloon rams, and a peacock eel (about 10 inches long). Last PWC was three days ago (NO2 O ppm, NO3 5 ppm, Ph 7.8, NH3/NH4 0 ppm) Photo uploaded and awaiting approval - Any advice is appreciated.....thanks. Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49045	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Oh and one additional note. If your tank is cycled, your nitrate should be > zero. Are you sure you shook the bottle vigorously and often enough as outlined in the instructions? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JenniferP Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I mistankenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be counter productive to do a water change. I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and am trying to learn. Please be gentle. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49046	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

your nitrate should be > zero. Should not be 0. is correct. --- On Sun, 8/22/10, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 12:15 PM   Oh and one additional note. If your tank is cycled, your nitrate should be > zero. Are you sure you shook the bottle vigorously and often enough as outlined in the instructions? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JenniferP Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I mistankenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be counter productive to do a water change. I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and am trying to learn. Please be gentle. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49047	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish

Just monitor it for now and try not to make your fish angry. Harry --- On Sun, 8/22/10, cobra427lady <clare@...> wrote: From: cobra427lady <clare@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 12:08 PM   Hi, All: Need some advice - I have a pair of breeding angels in my 100G tall hex that laid their eggs on the filter intake pipe - i left them be until they all turned white (not viable and getting fuzzy) so I decided to scrape them off before they got too moldy. Well, the angels, needless to say, got angry and tho I tried very hard to keep them from harm by blocking my dull plastic scraper with my hand the larger one (female?) came underneath and rammed into it and now has a dent on the top of her head. My question is, should I just leave it and watch to see if it gets worse or should I immediately treat with Melafix? The other species in the tank are bloodfin tetras, iranian red rainbows, clown loaches, apistogrammas agassizii pair, electric blue and balloon rams, and a peacock eel (about 10 inches long). Last PWC was three days ago (NO2 O ppm, NO3 5 ppm, Ph 7.8, NH3/NH4 0 ppm) Photo uploaded and awaiting approval - Any advice is appreciated.....thanks. Clare [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49048	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Jennifer, Have you done a 48 hour baseline test on your water yet? If not, draw water from your tap as you would for a water change. A gallon or two would be sufficient as we will only be doing three rounds of testing with it. Do the first test immediately, then test at approximately 24 hours and at 48 hours, and then report the results here for each round of testing (all at once) and we can see what happens to your water after it comes out of the tap. It will also determine if we need to look for another source of your pH being at the level you state. You should test not only for pH, but for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. You also state that your other tests show 0 across the board. If one of those tests was for nitrate, it should not be at 0, but should show some nitrate in the water. You should report each test separately on its own line to make it easy for us to read and understand. You may need to add to your tank water additional water prior to doing a water change, if there is a goodly amount of evaporation. Otherwise, just do a regular water change each week of about 10-25%. If you are not already doing weekly water changes, of more often, then start at the low end and gradually work your way up until you find a good level for your tank which is enough to keep the tank clean and stable. Also use a gravel vacuum to clean part of your substrate with every water change. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JenniferP Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I mistankenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be counter productive to do a water change. I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and am trying to learn. Please be gentle. Jennifer

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49049	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish

As Harry says, just monitor the condition of the fish for now. Any changes in the injured area other than improvement, should then be of concern. Next time you find eggs on the filter stem, or any other object in the aquarium that appear to be infertile or are fungusing, remove the object from the aquarium before cleaning. It will be easier on you and the fish. It may be that you have two females "breeding", or they may be just inexperienced enough not to get the eggs fertilized properly or not care for them properly. Sometimes it takes several tries for the fish to get it right. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish Hi, All: Need some advice - I have a pair of breeding angels in my 100G tall hex that laid their eggs on the filter intake pipe - i left them be until they all turned white (not viable and getting fuzzy) so I decided to scrape them off before they got too moldy. Well, the angels, needless to say, got angry and tho I tried very hard to keep them from harm by blocking my dull plastic scraper with my hand the larger one (female?) came underneath and rammed into it and now has a dent on the top of her head. My question is, should I just leave it and watch to see if it gets worse or should I immediately treat with Melafix? The other species in the tank are bloodfin tetras, iranian red rainbows, clown loaches, apistogrammas agassizii pair, electric blue and balloon rams, and a peacock eel (about 10 inches long). Last PWC was three days ago (NO2 O ppm, NO3 5 ppm, Ph 7.8, NH3/NH4 0 ppm) Photo uploaded and awaiting approval - Any advice is appreciated.....thanks. Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49050	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish/again

When I had breeding angels I found that the fish removed infertile eggs themselves. Harry --- On Sun, 8/22/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 12:43 PM   As Harry says, just monitor the condition of the fish for now. Any changes in the injured area other than improvement, should then be of concern. Next time you find eggs on the filter stem, or any other object in the aquarium that appear to be infertile or are fungusing, remove the object from the aquarium before cleaning. It will be easier on you and the fish. It may be that you have two females "breeding", or they may be just inexperienced enough not to get the eggs fertilized properly or not care for them properly. Sometimes it takes several tries for the fish to get it right. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish Hi, All: Need some advice - I have a pair of breeding angels in my 100G tall hex that laid their eggs on the filter intake pipe - i left them be until they all turned white (not viable and getting fuzzy) so I decided to scrape them off before they got too moldy. Well, the angels, needless to say, got angry and tho I tried very hard to keep them from harm by blocking my dull plastic scraper with my hand the larger one (female?) came underneath and rammed into it and now has a dent on the top of her head. My question is, should I just leave it and watch to see if it gets worse or should I immediately treat with Melafix? The other species in the tank are bloodfin tetras, iranian red rainbows, clown loaches, apistogrammas agassizii pair, electric blue and balloon rams, and a peacock eel (about 10 inches long). Last PWC was three days ago (NO2 O ppm, NO3 5 ppm, Ph 7.8, NH3/NH4 0 ppm) Photo uploaded and awaiting approval - Any advice is appreciated.....thanks. Clare [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49051	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: 22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII)

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   22nd Annual Marine Aquarium Conference of North America (MACNA XXII) Orlando, FL   Date:   Sunday September 5, 2010 Time:   10:00 am - 7:00 pm Repeats:   This event repeats every day until Sunday September 5, 2010. Location:   Marriott Resort and Convention Hotel City State Zip:   Orlando Florida Notes:   http://www.macna2010.com/Speaker_Schedule September 3-5, 2010 The Marine Aquarium Conference of North America, (MACNA) is the largest and oldest marine aquarium conference held in the US and Canada. Hobbyists at all skill levels have been enjoying MACNA for over twenty years. Aquarium enthusiasts and avid reef keepers will have the opportunity to meet and mingle with peers and professionals. Learn from leading researchers in the fields of aquaculture, marine biology, diving and oceanography. Discover new technologies and purchase cutting edge equipment. Conference attendees will have an opportunity to purchase some of finest handpicked corals from over 100 vendors. But that’s not all! Get ready for a huge raffle. Marine reef keeping equipment, supplies and countless other highly sought after items will all be raffled off. You can purchase your raffle tickets when you register for your full conference pass. Enjoy the open bar and reception dinner Friday night, as well as the spectacular Saturday night banquet! MACNA XXII will be held in sunny Orlando Florida at the world’s largest Marriott Resort and Convention Hotel on September 3-5, 2010 (Labor Day Weekend). Yes, MACNA will only be minutes from Walt Disney World®, Sea World, and Universal Studios. Check out the Travel Page for more information on this amazing resort and the Attraction Information page for Discounted Tickets to Walt Disney World® and many other theme parks. Don’t miss this opportunity to Register NOW while conference ticket prices are low.   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49052	From: Ray	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Hi Jennifer, To start off with here, did you get liquid test kits, or test strips? I'm only asking this as, unless you don't have very many fish in your tank and unless you regularly do exceptionally large water changes, there should be at least some minimal value showing up with your test for Nitrate since this is the end product of the nitrifying cycle (which is constantly in progress) and would be evidenced as the cycle working. Since fish are constantly adding waste which is being broken down eventually into Nitrate, you should normally always have some reading for it unless you're removing all of it just before testing -- would would seem impossible to do as there's always more being produced. I'm aware that you don't have just a few fish, and have a fair amount in your 45 gallon tank, consisting of 7 Three-Spot/Blue Gourami's (including all the different morphs) -- although 3 of them are smaller -- 1 Pearl Gourami, i lone Tetra, 2 juvenile Angels and 1 Pleco -- and now, a Thick-Lipped Gourami. While this bioload may not be taxing the water's oxygen content since many are labyrinth breathers, there is still a considerable amount of waste being given off by these fish; enough so that the end product of it all should give you some indication. I don't recall the amount or the requency of you PWC's, so perhaps you could please remind me, but unless it's considerable, a certain amount of Nitrate would always be left behind, in the water column, unless the tank is heavily planted (live plants) -- or unless you're feeding very sparingly with keeping the temperature lower than usual. If your tap water is at pH 7.4, and your using this is your source for filling and changing your aquarium's water, the tank's pH should be very near that of your tap water -- unless your tap water contains a lot of CO2. Try taking a large sample of your tap water in a glass container and let it stand overnight, testing it first that evening. Then, test it again the following morning to see if the pH has changed. If it hasn't, then there is something in your tank increasing the pH. This could be anything from sea shells to your substrate, or something in your filter which you have not indicated to us. Most often, it would be the substrate if you bought the wrong one for your needs, as some gravel consists of crushed coral or the likes -- which would increase your KH and boost your pH. Sorry to hear about the bloat of your newly acquired Thick-Lipped Gourami. If this were a Dwarf Gourami. I would immediately suspect the possibility of Dropsy, as today's Dwarf Gourami's seem rather prone to contracting this. While we still can't rule this out yet, your feeding him freeze-dried blood worms directly points to the problem of the fish being bloated as these freeze-dried foods absorb moisture over time, expanding inside of the fish after it's consumed -- and causing bloat as a result. Freeze-dried foods should always be soaked prior to feeding to your fish to allow it to soak up moisture prior to its being eaten. You addition of Epsom salt to this Gourami's tank was a good move, although I hope you've isolated this fish to a spare ("hospital") tank for treatment. Since you're concerned about your higher pH, you may just be concerned also about your hardness (General Hardness, in this case). If so, you should be aware that Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) will increase your GH, even though it won't increase your temporary hardness (KH). I wouldn't recommend adding Epsom salt to your 45 gallon tank. I'm not sure what you mean by; "if I just add the water . . . ." If you are changing water, you are also removing water before adding it. When are you "just adding water?" Changing water on a tank that has Epsom salt added to it would be counterproductive though, as you've be removing some of the Epsom salt you had added. When changing water that has Any salts added to it for treatment purposes, you should always replace the amount of salts that was removed. While on this subject, please let us know how much Epsom salt you've added (and to how large of a tank). If you are just adding water instead of making PWC's, this would be acceptable short-term although added testings of the parameters would be advised to keep on top of the conditions. Unless the parameters show any harmful indications, there needn't be any concern for less frequent PWC's during this interum. You can try increasing the temperature somewhat (what are you keeping it at now?), which will increase the metabolism and tend to increase digestion, possibly even promoting him to eat peas once again. BTW, pH 8.2 is not terrible, and a constant pH value is far better than a bouncing one every other day. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "JenniferP" <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. > I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? > > Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I mistakenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be counter productive to do a water change. > > I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and am trying to learn. Please be gentle. > Jennifer >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49053	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

I did not wait 24 hours before testing my water out of the tap so I will do that. As far as bloat goes, he looks like a pine cone and I was told the bloodworms I fed him probably caused it by the guy I got the gouramis from. I have since picked up that medication and put the first dose in the tank. Thanks, Jennifer ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 11:14:01 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues Regarding pH, test some water out of the tap after you have left it out in a bowl for 24 hours. Regarding bloat, what are the symptoms that caused you to confirm bloat? I have dealt with bloat successfully several times in African cichlids, not sure if gourami have the same vegetarian intestinal tract issues. I use metronidazole to treat bloat if the fish isn’t too sick, and if he is too sick then I use clout. But I use dosages and water change/feeding regimen that is different than what is on the packages. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JenniferP Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I mistankenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be counter productive to do a water change. I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and am trying to learn. Please be gentle. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49054	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues/Hi Jennifer

I was going to read all the responses and then list one answer but I figure I'll just try to answer as I go. Size of tank 45 tall, inhabitants, 8 gouramis, blue, platinum, yellow, opal and 2 of which are thick lipped, 3 angel fish and a pleco. Set up a month or so ago, actually switched over with a filter from a previous 20 gallon tank so filter was already cycled. Kit wise you know I might have screwed up Nitrates but I'm positive on the other levels of zero. Test was done before adding the salts. I had been doing roughly 30% water changes with cleaning the bottom once a week. Now since I last wrote I got even more nervous of my guy so I went to the fish store and he suggested medication that is safe to even keep the filter in something starting with a M, so I've put that in since. Jennifer ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 11:12:51 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues/Hi Jennifer First things first. You can't ask a stupid question. It's stupid not to ask questions. We need more information on this tank in order to help. Size, inhabitants, when did you first set this tank up?. Test kit - "all your values are 0". In a cycled tank the ideal would be 0 nitrite, approx 40ppm nitrate, 0 ammonia and whatever your pH is. You should be seeing a nitrate reading. Was the test done before or after adding the Epsom salts?. Try this again. We need to stabilize this tank. Water changes at 30% once a week should be sufficient unless this tank is small and overcrowded. Summary; Don't add anything else to the water for now. No Epson salts Do a 30% water change now and then just once a week. After 24 hours test the water again and post your results. Continue feeding the peas. If he won't eat them remove them and try again next day. It's important that we have all the tank information as stated above so that we can help you. Tank water can be too clean. The tank will never stabilize if it is. Harry --- On Sun, 8/22/10, JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: From: JenniferP <blazecrazerat@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 11:21 AM Â I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I mistankenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be counter productive to do a water change. I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and am trying to learn. Please be gentle. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49055	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Jennifer - This could be dropsy - why don't you look up pictures of dropsy and see if it fits. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 22, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > he looks like a pine cone [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49056	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Hi Ray thanks for responding. The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the person I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, one loan tetra and a pleco. As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not done a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a water change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I should have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also the tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb to every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb instead of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on the note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be increasing my pH? I have black tahitan sand as a substrate so don't know if that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for my pleco. I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was told I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is Maracyn-Two. I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is up to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. Hopefully this answers a few things. Jennifer ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 12:26:53 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Hi Jennifer, To start off with here, did you get liquid test kits, or test strips? I'm only asking this as, unless you don't have very many fish in your tank and unless you regularly do exceptionally large water changes, there should be at least some minimal value showing up with your test for Nitrate since this is the end product of the nitrifying cycle (which is constantly in progress) and would be evidenced as the cycle working. Since fish are constantly adding waste which is being broken down eventually into Nitrate, you should normally always have some reading for it unless you're removing all of it just before testing -- would would seem impossible to do as there's always more being produced. I'm aware that you don't have just a few fish, and have a fair amount in your 45 gallon tank, consisting of 7 Three-Spot/Blue Gourami's (including all the different morphs) -- although 3 of them are smaller -- 1 Pearl Gourami, i lone Tetra, 2 juvenile Angels and 1 Pleco -- and now, a Thick-Lipped Gourami. While this bioload may not be taxing the water's oxygen content since many are labyrinth breathers, there is still a considerable amount of waste being given off by these fish; enough so that the end product of it all should give you some indication. I don't recall the amount or the requency of you PWC's, so perhaps you could please remind me, but unless it's considerable, a certain amount of Nitrate would always be left behind, in the water column, unless the tank is heavily planted (live plants) -- or unless you're feeding very sparingly with keeping the temperature lower than usual. If your tap water is at pH 7.4, and your using this is your source for filling and changing your aquarium's water, the tank's pH should be very near that of your tap water -- unless your tap water contains a lot of CO2. Try taking a large sample of your tap water in a glass container and let it stand overnight, testing it first that evening. Then, test it again the following morning to see if the pH has changed. If it hasn't, then there is something in your tank increasing the pH. This could be anything from sea shells to your substrate, or something in your filter which you have not indicated to us. Most often, it would be the substrate if you bought the wrong one for your needs, as some gravel consists of crushed coral or the likes -- which would increase your KH and boost your pH. Sorry to hear about the bloat of your newly acquired Thick-Lipped Gourami. If this were a Dwarf Gourami. I would immediately suspect the possibility of Dropsy, as today's Dwarf Gourami's seem rather prone to contracting this. While we still can't rule this out yet, your feeding him freeze-dried blood worms directly points to the problem of the fish being bloated as these freeze-dried foods absorb moisture over time, expanding inside of the fish after it's consumed -- and causing bloat as a result. Freeze-dried foods should always be soaked prior to feeding to your fish to allow it to soak up moisture prior to its being eaten. You addition of Epsom salt to this Gourami's tank was a good move, although I hope you've isolated this fish to a spare ("hospital") tank for treatment. Since you're concerned about your higher pH, you may just be concerned also about your hardness (General Hardness, in this case). If so, you should be aware that Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) will increase your GH, even though it won't increase your temporary hardness (KH). I wouldn't recommend adding Epsom salt to your 45 gallon tank. I'm not sure what you mean by; "if I just add the water . . . ." If you are changing water, you are also removing water before adding it. When are you "just adding water?" Changing water on a tank that has Epsom salt added to it would be counterproductive though, as you've be removing some of the Epsom salt you had added. When changing water that has Any salts added to it for treatment purposes, you should always replace the amount of salts that was removed. While on this subject, please let us know how much Epsom salt you've added (and to how large of a tank). If you are just adding water instead of making PWC's, this would be acceptable short-term although added testings of the parameters would be advised to keep on top of the conditions. Unless the parameters show any harmful indications, there needn't be any concern for less frequent PWC's during this interum. You can try increasing the temperature somewhat (what are you keeping it at now?), which will increase the metabolism and tend to increase digestion, possibly even promoting him to eat peas once again. BTW, pH 8.2 is not terrible, and a constant pH value is far better than a bouncing one every other day. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "JenniferP" <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. > I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 >except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I >tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any >ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? > > Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I >mistakenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. >I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First >day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps >with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be >counter productive to do a water change. > > > I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and >am trying to learn. Please be gentle. > Jennifer > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49057	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

I was told dropsy and bloat is the same thing, but the medication I picked up specifically targets Dropsy on the package. From what I've read bloat or dropsy is what he has. ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 2:36:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues Jennifer - This could be dropsy - why don't you look up pictures of dropsy and see if it fits. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 22, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > he looks like a pine cone [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49058	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

With bloat you don't get the pinecone effect, so I'd go with dropsy. Nitrate=80ppm is twice the safe level so I would do another 50% water change tomorrow. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues I was told dropsy and bloat is the same thing, but the medication I picked up specifically targets Dropsy on the package. From what I've read bloat or dropsy is what he has. ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@... <mailto:lainealex%40earthlink.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 2:36:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues Jennifer - This could be dropsy - why don't you look up pictures of dropsy and see if it fits. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 22, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > he looks like a pine cone [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49059	From: Ray	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Hi Jennifer, Okay, I see you lost a couple of fish since last time we exchanged messages. Still have the Angelfish and Gourami's, but only 6 of the 3-Spot-Type morphs. Noticed the lone Tetra keeps hanging in there, and the Pleco is still with you (they're fairly htrdy). Still a good number of fish for a 45 High. Alright, I thought you were going for liquid test kits, and so you did! Yes, I saw where you stated you may have messed up the tests. I'm glad to see you did them over -- and also see that your Nitrate is well up there, as suspected, although I didn't know it would be quite this high. The Nitrate level is not dangerous yet but is far from ideal -- and is no doubt due to your somewhat heavier bioload, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, your 30% to 40% weekly water changes are not enough. Until you get the 55 gallon set up and transfer some of these fish to it, I'd recommend you start making PWC's twice weekly to get your Nitrate down -- which should help in physically removing some of your excess Ammonia at the same time. Are you still planning on setting up thr 55? Ideally, your Nitrate should be no more than 40 ppm, although you may relax about this a bit as Nitrate is relatively harmless compared to the effects of Ammonia and Nitrate -- not that your Nitrate level is good, however. Of much more important concern is your Ammonia -- which I must draw your attention to immediately. Normally, a level of Total Ammonia of only 0.25 ppm is not especially harmful at lower pH levels (although still not the greatest to have at anywhere above Zero). As the pH increases, so will the harmful effects of Ammonia, as more of the Total Ammonia (Ammonium) will convert to Free-Ammonia -- which is not good. You need to please be aware that your present Total Ammonia level of 0.25 ppm will release enough Free-Ammonia to become toxic at a pH of 8.2 and become lethal at your pH 8.4 (unless you are using water conditioners such as Prime or Amquel Plus, which ill convert the Free-Ammonia back to harmless Ammonium. Your Ammonia level may have contributed to your receny fish deaths. At this same time, I notice you are missing the test result for for Nitrite level for your re-testing of it. Before we get any further in the issue of your water hardness and pH as found in your aquarium, wait until you get the results of your base line tests of your tap water. As for black Tahitian sand, as far as I know this is just inert volcanic rock residue reduced to this fine state over the millenia. I don't believe calcium would be leached from live clams' shells, especial when your TDS 9iotal dissolved solids) are obviously high, although \\Steve// may possibly be able to shed further light on this. Getting to the "patient" of immediate concern, there is a hugh different between the condition of Bloat, as brought on by indigestion/swelling of the ingested dried foods within the gut and the manifestation of the condition known commonly as Dropsy -- which has a number of possible pathogenic causes (both viral and bacterial). The Pineconing effect you see is definitely the result of Dropsy, an internal infection that attacks the liver and kidney's, and what you're seeing is the aftereffect of the kidneys shutting down with the bodily build-up of fluids. I need to tell you that usually, when the condition reaches this stage, that it's most often quite difficult (if even at all possible) to reverse this at the stage it's at. You may give it a try though, and I'll yell you that whoever your local fish syore keeper is, he's a rare one as he recommended precisely what is required for treating Dropsey -- even though the hope of turning this around diminished greatly, beyond catching it early. Prescribing Epsom salt at that exact amount was right on the money, although if the fish continues to survive, this salt needs to be added again (in addition to what you've just added) at half the amount on the 3rd day of treatment. When you mentioned that you thought your fish store owber suggest a medication starting with an "M," I thought perhaps you were going to be given the Metronidazole that Donna recommended. I believe the choice of medication, of Maracyn II is an even better one in this case, even though I recognize that Donna has had good results with the previously suggested med. The Maracyn II (TwO) is in reality Minocycline, which would have been one of my choices, as it's one of the very few broad-spectrum antibiotics which are readily absorbable internally and one that has good potential in eradicating such an internal bacteria infection, although if the cause is viral there really isn't much hope. Additionally, in trying to treat for Dropsy, the best results are had when the temperature is raised to at least 86 o (I often recommend 90 o, as it's more effective, but not evetyone trusts that level). In your case though. unless you're using a good water conditioner that will convert any Free-Ammonia into Ammonium -- and most good ones will -- I'd have to recommend foregoing raising of the temperature only as a precaution. I might assume though, although I'd need confirmation, that you ARE using a good dechloraminator which will ensure the Free-Ammonia/Ammonium conversion -- in which case the temp should be raised (I just didn't want to tell you this without also telling you of the need to use a good water conditioner to control the Ammonia issue). I would still not give the treatment very much hope, as it seems advanced, but it's the best shot you'll get. Here's hoping for the best. Ray --- I@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray thanks for responding. > The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the person > I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've > lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, one > loan tetra and a pleco. > > As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the > Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not done > a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. > > I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a water > change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I should > have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also the > tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the > whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. > > I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb to > every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb instead > of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on the > note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be > increasing my pH? I have black Tahitian sand as a substrate so don't know if > that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for my > pleco. > > I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. > Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was told > I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is > Maracyn-Two. > > > I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is up > to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. > > Hopefully this answers a few things. > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 12:26:53 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > > > Hi Jennifer, To start off with here, did you get liquid test kits, or test > strips? I'm only asking this as, unless you don't have very many fish in your > tank and unless you regularly do exceptionally large water changes, there should > be at least some minimal value showing up with your test for Nitrate since this > is the end product of the nitrifying cycle (which is constantly in progress) and > would be evidenced as the cycle working. Since fish are constantly adding waste > which is being broken down eventually into Nitrate, you should normally always > have some reading for it unless you're removing all of it just before testing -- > would would seem impossible to do as there's always more being produced. > > I'm aware that you don't have just a few fish, and have a fair amount in your 45 > gallon tank, consisting of 7 Three-Spot/Blue Gourami's (including all the > different morphs) -- although 3 of them are smaller -- 1 Pearl Gourami, i lone > Tetra, 2 juvenile Angels and 1 Pleco -- and now, a Thick-Lipped Gourami. While > this bioload may not be taxing the water's oxygen content since many are > labyrinth breathers, there is still a considerable amount of waste being given > off by these fish; enough so that the end product of it all should give you some > indication. > > > I don't recall the amount or the requency of you PWC's, so perhaps you could > please remind me, but unless it's considerable, a certain amount of Nitrate > would always be left behind, in the water column, unless the tank is heavily > planted (live plants) -- or unless you're feeding very sparingly with keeping > the temperature lower than usual. > > If your tap water is at pH 7.4, and your using this is your source for filling > and changing your aquarium's water, the tank's pH should be very near that of > your tap water -- unless your tap water contains a lot of CO2. Try taking a > large sample of your tap water in a glass container and let it stand overnight, > testing it first that evening. Then, test it again the following morning to see > if the pH has changed. If it hasn't, then there is something in your tank > increasing the pH. This could be anything from sea shells to your substrate, or > something in your filter which you have not indicated to us. Most often, it > would be the substrate if you bought the wrong one for your needs, as some > gravel consists of crushed coral or the likes -- which would increase your KH > and boost your pH. > > Sorry to hear about the bloat of your newly acquired Thick-Lipped Gourami. If > this were a Dwarf Gourami. I would immediately suspect the possibility of > Dropsy, as today's Dwarf Gourami's seem rather prone to contracting this. While > we still can't rule this out yet, your feeding him freeze-dried blood worms > directly points to the problem of the fish being bloated as these freeze-dried > foods absorb moisture over time, expanding inside of the fish after it's > consumed -- and causing bloat as a result. Freeze-dried foods should always be > soaked prior to feeding to your fish to allow it to soak up moisture prior to > its being eaten. You addition of Epsom salt to this Gourami's tank was a good > move, although I hope you've isolated this fish to a spare ("hospital") tank for > treatment. > > > Since you're concerned about your higher pH, you may just be concerned also > about your hardness (General Hardness, in this case). If so, you should be > aware that Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) will increase your GH, even though it > won't increase your temporary hardness (KH). I wouldn't recommend adding Epsom > salt to your 45 gallon tank. > > I'm not sure what you mean by; "if I just add the water . . . ." If you are > changing water, you are also removing water before adding it. When are you > "just adding water?" Changing water on a tank that has Epsom salt added to it > would be counterproductive though, as you've be removing some of the Epsom salt > you had added. When changing water that has Any salts added to it for treatment > purposes, you should always replace the amount of salts that was removed. While > on this subject, please let us know how much Epsom salt you've added (and to how > large of a tank). > > > If you are just adding water instead of making PWC's, this would be acceptable > short-term although added testings of the parameters would be advised to keep on > top of the conditions. Unless the parameters show any harmful indications, > there needn't be any concern for less frequent PWC's during this interum. You > can try increasing the temperature somewhat (what are you keeping it at now?), > which will increase the metabolism and tend to increase digestion, possibly even > promoting him to eat peas once again. BTW, pH 8.2 is not terrible, and a > constant pH value is far better than a bouncing one every other day. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "JenniferP" <blazecrazerat@> wrote: > > > > I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. > > I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 > >except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I > >tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any > >ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? > > > > Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I > >mistakenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. > >I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First > >day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps > >with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be > >counter productive to do a water change. > > > > > > I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and > >am trying to learn. Please be gentle. > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49060	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish/again

Thanks, Harry & Steve - this all gets chalked up under the title of "Why It Is Never a Good Idea to Rush Where the Fish are Concerned" The injured angel does not seem perturbed and the pair are back at it & doing their dance to keep the other two angels in the tank out of their territory LOL I think the reason these eggs never got fertilized is that I did not realize they had laid them and did a full rescape of the tank on Friday and they got interrupted. It was not until I put the lights back on that I saw the eggs on the tube - at least a 8 inch by 1 inch swath of eggs in rows on the tube. Thought I would give them a til today & all got fuzzy and white pretty much over last night, hence my decision to scrape them away on the advice of a local fish keeper buddy. I should have used the sponge stick I have, but could not find it - hopefully I have not hurt my angel too badly - these two paired up out of a group I raised up from babies - sigh. Thanks again for the quick response. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > When I had breeding angels I found that the fish removed infertile eggs themselves. > > Harry > > --- On Sun, 8/22/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010, 12:43 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > As Harry says, just monitor the condition of the fish for now. Any changes in the injured area other than improvement, should then be of concern. > > > > Next time you find eggs on the filter stem, or any other object in the aquarium that appear to be infertile or are fungusing, remove the object from the aquarium before cleaning. It will be easier on you and the fish. > > > > It may be that you have two females "breeding", or they may be just inexperienced enough not to get the eggs fertilized properly or not care for them properly. Sometimes it takes several tries for the fish to get it right. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish > > > > Hi, All: > > Need some advice - I have a pair of breeding angels in my 100G tall hex that laid their eggs on the filter intake pipe - i left them be until they all turned white (not viable and getting fuzzy) so I decided to scrape them off before they got too moldy. Well, the angels, needless to say, got angry and tho I tried very hard to keep them from harm by blocking my dull plastic scraper with my hand the larger one (female?) came underneath and rammed into it and now has a dent on the top of her head. > > My question is, should I just leave it and watch to see if it gets worse or should I immediately treat with Melafix? The other species in the tank are bloodfin tetras, iranian red rainbows, clown loaches, apistogrammas agassizii pair, electric blue and balloon rams, and a peacock eel (about 10 inches long). Last PWC was three days ago (NO2 O ppm, NO3 5 ppm, Ph 7.8, NH3/NH4 0 ppm) > > Photo uploaded and awaiting approval - Any advice is appreciated.....thanks. > > Clare > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49061	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change tomorrow as I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I figure I'll do a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with salt. I did raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The guy I got him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering but I'm still willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the medicine so I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add water so that shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite when I redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water tomorrow I can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after letting sit for 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia seemed to be less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I provided the numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than prescribed? Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had just added the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it tomorrow? Jennifer P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 years of fish knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store including Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe is if I keep with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as much of a factor. Thoughts? ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 5:41:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Hi Jennifer, Okay, I see you lost a couple of fish since last time we exchanged messages. Still have the Angelfish and Gourami's, but only 6 of the 3-Spot-Type morphs. Noticed the lone Tetra keeps hanging in there, and the Pleco is still with you (they're fairly htrdy). Still a good number of fish for a 45 High. Alright, I thought you were going for liquid test kits, and so you did! Yes, I saw where you stated you may have messed up the tests. I'm glad to see you did them over -- and also see that your Nitrate is well up there, as suspected, although I didn't know it would be quite this high. The Nitrate level is not dangerous yet but is far from ideal -- and is no doubt due to your somewhat heavier bioload, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, your 30% to 40% weekly water changes are not enough. Until you get the 55 gallon set up and transfer some of these fish to it, I'd recommend you start making PWC's twice weekly to get your Nitrate down -- which should help in physically removing some of your excess Ammonia at the same time. Are you still planning on setting up thr 55? Ideally, your Nitrate should be no more than 40 ppm, although you may relax about this a bit as Nitrate is relatively harmless compared to the effects of Ammonia and Nitrate -- not that your Nitrate level is good, however. Of much more important concern is your Ammonia -- which I must draw your attention to immediately. Normally, a level of Total Ammonia of only 0.25 ppm is not especially harmful at lower pH levels (although still not the greatest to have at anywhere above Zero). As the pH increases, so will the harmful effects of Ammonia, as more of the Total Ammonia (Ammonium) will convert to Free-Ammonia -- which is not good. You need to please be aware that your present Total Ammonia level of 0.25 ppm will release enough Free-Ammonia to become toxic at a pH of 8.2 and become lethal at your pH 8.4 (unless you are using water conditioners such as Prime or Amquel Plus, which ill convert the Free-Ammonia back to harmless Ammonium. Your Ammonia level may have contributed to your receny fish deaths. At this same time, I notice you are missing the test result for for Nitrite level for your re-testing of it. Before we get any further in the issue of your water hardness and pH as found in your aquarium, wait until you get the results of your base line tests of your tap water. As for black Tahitian sand, as far as I know this is just inert volcanic rock residue reduced to this fine state over the millenia. I don't believe calcium would be leached from live clams' shells, especial when your TDS 9iotal dissolved solids) are obviously high, although \\Steve// may possibly be able to shed further light on this. Getting to the "patient" of immediate concern, there is a hugh different between the condition of Bloat, as brought on by indigestion/swelling of the ingested dried foods within the gut and the manifestation of the condition known commonly as Dropsy -- which has a number of possible pathogenic causes (both viral and bacterial). The Pineconing effect you see is definitely the result of Dropsy, an internal infection that attacks the liver and kidney's, and what you're seeing is the aftereffect of the kidneys shutting down with the bodily build-up of fluids. I need to tell you that usually, when the condition reaches this stage, that it's most often quite difficult (if even at all possible) to reverse this at the stage it's at. You may give it a try though, and I'll yell you that whoever your local fish syore keeper is, he's a rare one as he recommended precisely what is required for treating Dropsey -- even though the hope of turning this around diminished greatly, beyond catching it early. Prescribing Epsom salt at that exact amount was right on the money, although if the fish continues to survive, this salt needs to be added again (in addition to what you've just added) at half the amount on the 3rd day of treatment. When you mentioned that you thought your fish store owber suggest a medication starting with an "M," I thought perhaps you were going to be given the Metronidazole that Donna recommended. I believe the choice of medication, of Maracyn II is an even better one in this case, even though I recognize that Donna has had good results with the previously suggested med. The Maracyn II (TwO) is in reality Minocycline, which would have been one of my choices, as it's one of the very few broad-spectrum antibiotics which are readily absorbable internally and one that has good potential in eradicating such an internal bacteria infection, although if the cause is viral there really isn't much hope. Additionally, in trying to treat for Dropsy, the best results are had when the temperature is raised to at least 86 o (I often recommend 90 o, as it's more effective, but not evetyone trusts that level). In your case though. unless you're using a good water conditioner that will convert any Free-Ammonia into Ammonium -- and most good ones will -- I'd have to recommend foregoing raising of the temperature only as a precaution. I might assume though, although I'd need confirmation, that you ARE using a good dechloraminator which will ensure the Free-Ammonia/Ammonium conversion -- in which case the temp should be raised (I just didn't want to tell you this without also telling you of the need to use a good water conditioner to control the Ammonia issue). I would still not give the treatment very much hope, as it seems advanced, but it's the best shot you'll get. Here's hoping for the best. Ray --- I@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray thanks for responding. > The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the >person > > I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've > lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, one > > loan tetra and a pleco. > > As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the > Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not >done > > a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. > > I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a water > change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I should > > have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also the > tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the > whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. > > I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb to > every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb instead > > of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on the > > note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be > increasing my pH? I have black Tahitian sand as a substrate so don't know if > that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for >my > > pleco. > > I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. > Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was told > > I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is > Maracyn-Two. > > > I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is up > to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. > > Hopefully this answers a few things. > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 12:26:53 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > > > Hi Jennifer, To start off with here, did you get liquid test kits, or test > strips? I'm only asking this as, unless you don't have very many fish in your > tank and unless you regularly do exceptionally large water changes, there >should > > be at least some minimal value showing up with your test for Nitrate since this > > is the end product of the nitrifying cycle (which is constantly in progress) >and > > would be evidenced as the cycle working. Since fish are constantly adding >waste > > which is being broken down eventually into Nitrate, you should normally always > have some reading for it unless you're removing all of it just before testing >-- > > would would seem impossible to do as there's always more being produced. > > I'm aware that you don't have just a few fish, and have a fair amount in your >45 > > gallon tank, consisting of 7 Three-Spot/Blue Gourami's (including all the > different morphs) -- although 3 of them are smaller -- 1 Pearl Gourami, i lone > Tetra, 2 juvenile Angels and 1 Pleco -- and now, a Thick-Lipped Gourami. While > > this bioload may not be taxing the water's oxygen content since many are > labyrinth breathers, there is still a considerable amount of waste being given > off by these fish; enough so that the end product of it all should give you >some > > indication. > > > I don't recall the amount or the requency of you PWC's, so perhaps you could > please remind me, but unless it's considerable, a certain amount of Nitrate > would always be left behind, in the water column, unless the tank is heavily > planted (live plants) -- or unless you're feeding very sparingly with keeping > the temperature lower than usual. > > If your tap water is at pH 7.4, and your using this is your source for filling > and changing your aquarium's water, the tank's pH should be very near that of > your tap water -- unless your tap water contains a lot of CO2. Try taking a > large sample of your tap water in a glass container and let it stand overnight, > > testing it first that evening. Then, test it again the following morning to >see > > if the pH has changed. If it hasn't, then there is something in your tank > increasing the pH. This could be anything from sea shells to your substrate, >or > > something in your filter which you have not indicated to us. Most often, it > would be the substrate if you bought the wrong one for your needs, as some > gravel consists of crushed coral or the likes -- which would increase your KH > and boost your pH. > > Sorry to hear about the bloat of your newly acquired Thick-Lipped Gourami. If > this were a Dwarf Gourami. I would immediately suspect the possibility of > Dropsy, as today's Dwarf Gourami's seem rather prone to contracting this. >While > > we still can't rule this out yet, your feeding him freeze-dried blood worms > directly points to the problem of the fish being bloated as these freeze-dried > foods absorb moisture over time, expanding inside of the fish after it's > consumed -- and causing bloat as a result. Freeze-dried foods should always >be > > soaked prior to feeding to your fish to allow it to soak up moisture prior to > its being eaten. You addition of Epsom salt to this Gourami's tank was a good > move, although I hope you've isolated this fish to a spare ("hospital") tank >for > > treatment. > > > Since you're concerned about your higher pH, you may just be concerned also > about your hardness (General Hardness, in this case). If so, you should be > aware that Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) will increase your GH, even though it > > won't increase your temporary hardness (KH). I wouldn't recommend adding Epsom > > salt to your 45 gallon tank. > > I'm not sure what you mean by; "if I just add the water . . . ." If you are > changing water, you are also removing water before adding it. When are you > "just adding water?" Changing water on a tank that has Epsom salt added to it > would be counterproductive though, as you've be removing some of the Epsom salt > > you had added. When changing water that has Any salts added to it for >treatment > > purposes, you should always replace the amount of salts that was removed. >While > > on this subject, please let us know how much Epsom salt you've added (and to >how > > large of a tank). > > > If you are just adding water instead of making PWC's, this would be acceptable > short-term although added testings of the parameters would be advised to keep >on > > top of the conditions. Unless the parameters show any harmful indications, > there needn't be any concern for less frequent PWC's during this interum. You > can try increasing the temperature somewhat (what are you keeping it at now?), > which will increase the metabolism and tend to increase digestion, possibly >even > > promoting him to eat peas once again. BTW, pH 8.2 is not terrible, and a > constant pH value is far better than a bouncing one every other day. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "JenniferP" <blazecrazerat@> wrote: > > > > I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. > > I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at >0 > > >except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I > >tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any > > >ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? > > > > Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I > >mistakenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help >him. > > >I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First > >day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps > >with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be > >counter productive to do a water change. > > > > > > I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums >and > > >am trying to learn. Please be gentle. > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49062	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

I think you only need to test the pH after having the tap water sit out in a bowl, not the other tests like ammonia and nitrate. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are tank water tests, not tap water tests. (Usually.) _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change tomorrow as I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I figure I'll do a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with salt. I did raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The guy I got him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering but I'm still willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the medicine so I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add water so that shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite when I redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water tomorrow I can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after letting sit for 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia seemed to be less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I provided the numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than prescribed? Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had just added the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it tomorrow? Jennifer P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 years of fish knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store including Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe is if I keep with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as much of a factor. Thoughts? ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 5:41:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Hi Jennifer, Okay, I see you lost a couple of fish since last time we exchanged messages. Still have the Angelfish and Gourami's, but only 6 of the 3-Spot-Type morphs. Noticed the lone Tetra keeps hanging in there, and the Pleco is still with you (they're fairly htrdy). Still a good number of fish for a 45 High. Alright, I thought you were going for liquid test kits, and so you did! Yes, I saw where you stated you may have messed up the tests. I'm glad to see you did them over -- and also see that your Nitrate is well up there, as suspected, although I didn't know it would be quite this high. The Nitrate level is not dangerous yet but is far from ideal -- and is no doubt due to your somewhat heavier bioload, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, your 30% to 40% weekly water changes are not enough. Until you get the 55 gallon set up and transfer some of these fish to it, I'd recommend you start making PWC's twice weekly to get your Nitrate down -- which should help in physically removing some of your excess Ammonia at the same time. Are you still planning on setting up thr 55? Ideally, your Nitrate should be no more than 40 ppm, although you may relax about this a bit as Nitrate is relatively harmless compared to the effects of Ammonia and Nitrate -- not that your Nitrate level is good, however. Of much more important concern is your Ammonia -- which I must draw your attention to immediately. Normally, a level of Total Ammonia of only 0.25 ppm is not especially harmful at lower pH levels (although still not the greatest to have at anywhere above Zero). As the pH increases, so will the harmful effects of Ammonia, as more of the Total Ammonia (Ammonium) will convert to Free-Ammonia -- which is not good. You need to please be aware that your present Total Ammonia level of 0.25 ppm will release enough Free-Ammonia to become toxic at a pH of 8.2 and become lethal at your pH 8.4 (unless you are using water conditioners such as Prime or Amquel Plus, which ill convert the Free-Ammonia back to harmless Ammonium. Your Ammonia level may have contributed to your receny fish deaths. At this same time, I notice you are missing the test result for for Nitrite level for your re-testing of it. Before we get any further in the issue of your water hardness and pH as found in your aquarium, wait until you get the results of your base line tests of your tap water. As for black Tahitian sand, as far as I know this is just inert volcanic rock residue reduced to this fine state over the millenia. I don't believe calcium would be leached from live clams' shells, especial when your TDS 9iotal dissolved solids) are obviously high, although \\Steve// may possibly be able to shed further light on this. Getting to the "patient" of immediate concern, there is a hugh different between the condition of Bloat, as brought on by indigestion/swelling of the ingested dried foods within the gut and the manifestation of the condition known commonly as Dropsy -- which has a number of possible pathogenic causes (both viral and bacterial). The Pineconing effect you see is definitely the result of Dropsy, an internal infection that attacks the liver and kidney's, and what you're seeing is the aftereffect of the kidneys shutting down with the bodily build-up of fluids. I need to tell you that usually, when the condition reaches this stage, that it's most often quite difficult (if even at all possible) to reverse this at the stage it's at. You may give it a try though, and I'll yell you that whoever your local fish syore keeper is, he's a rare one as he recommended precisely what is required for treating Dropsey -- even though the hope of turning this around diminished greatly, beyond catching it early. Prescribing Epsom salt at that exact amount was right on the money, although if the fish continues to survive, this salt needs to be added again (in addition to what you've just added) at half the amount on the 3rd day of treatment. When you mentioned that you thought your fish store owber suggest a medication starting with an "M," I thought perhaps you were going to be given the Metronidazole that Donna recommended. I believe the choice of medication, of Maracyn II is an even better one in this case, even though I recognize that Donna has had good results with the previously suggested med. The Maracyn II (TwO) is in reality Minocycline, which would have been one of my choices, as it's one of the very few broad-spectrum antibiotics which are readily absorbable internally and one that has good potential in eradicating such an internal bacteria infection, although if the cause is viral there really isn't much hope. Additionally, in trying to treat for Dropsy, the best results are had when the temperature is raised to at least 86 o (I often recommend 90 o, as it's more effective, but not evetyone trusts that level). In your case though. unless you're using a good water conditioner that will convert any Free-Ammonia into Ammonium -- and most good ones will -- I'd have to recommend foregoing raising of the temperature only as a precaution. I might assume though, although I'd need confirmation, that you ARE using a good dechloraminator which will ensure the Free-Ammonia/Ammonium conversion -- in which case the temp should be raised (I just didn't want to tell you this without also telling you of the need to use a good water conditioner to control the Ammonia issue). I would still not give the treatment very much hope, as it seems advanced, but it's the best shot you'll get. Here's hoping for the best. Ray --- I@yahoogroups.com <mailto:I%40yahoogroups.com> , Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray thanks for responding. > The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the >person > > I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've > lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, one > > loan tetra and a pleco. > > As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the > Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not >done > > a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. > > I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a water > change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I should > > have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also the > tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the > whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. > > I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb to > every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb instead > > of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on the > > note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be > increasing my pH? I have black Tahitian sand as a substrate so don't know if > that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for >my > > pleco. > > I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. > Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was told > > I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is > Maracyn-Two. > > > I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is up > to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. > > Hopefully this answers a few things. > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 12:26:53 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > > > Hi Jennifer, To start off with here, did you get liquid test kits, or test > strips? I'm only asking this as, unless you don't have very many fish in your > tank and unless you regularly do exceptionally large water changes, there >should > > be at least some minimal value showing up with your test for Nitrate since this > > is the end product of the nitrifying cycle (which is constantly in progress) >and > > would be evidenced as the cycle working. Since fish are constantly adding >waste > > which is being broken down eventually into Nitrate, you should normally always > have some reading for it unless you're removing all of it just before testing >-- > > would would seem impossible to do as there's always more being produced. > > I'm aware that you don't have just a few fish, and have a fair amount in your >45 > > gallon tank, consisting of 7 Three-Spot/Blue Gourami's (including all the > different morphs) -- although 3 of them are smaller -- 1 Pearl Gourami, i lone > Tetra, 2 juvenile Angels and 1 Pleco -- and now, a Thick-Lipped Gourami. While > > this bioload may not be taxing the water's oxygen content since many are > labyrinth breathers, there is still a considerable amount of waste being given > off by these fish; enough so that the end product of it all should give you >some > > indication. > > > I don't recall the amount or the requency of you PWC's, so perhaps you could > please remind me, but unless it's considerable, a certain amount of Nitrate > would always be left behind, in the water column, unless the tank is heavily > planted (live plants) -- or unless you're feeding very sparingly with keeping > the temperature lower than usual. > > If your tap water is at pH 7.4, and your using this is your source for filling > and changing your aquarium's water, the tank's pH should be very near that of > your tap water -- unless your tap water contains a lot of CO2. Try taking a > large sample of your tap water in a glass container and let it stand overnight, > > testing it first that evening. Then, test it again the following morning to >see > > if the pH has changed. If it hasn't, then there is something in your tank > increasing the pH. This could be anything from sea shells to your substrate, >or > > something in your filter which you have not indicated to us. Most often, it > would be the substrate if you bought the wrong one for your needs, as some > gravel consists of crushed coral or the likes -- which would increase your KH > and boost your pH. > > Sorry to hear about the bloat of your newly acquired Thick-Lipped Gourami. If > this were a Dwarf Gourami. I would immediately suspect the possibility of > Dropsy, as today's Dwarf Gourami's seem rather prone to contracting this. >While > > we still can't rule this out yet, your feeding him freeze-dried blood worms > directly points to the problem of the fish being bloated as these freeze-dried > foods absorb moisture over time, expanding inside of the fish after it's > consumed -- and causing bloat as a result. Freeze-dried foods should always >be > > soaked prior to feeding to your fish to allow it to soak up moisture prior to > its being eaten. You addition of Epsom salt to this Gourami's tank was a good > move, although I hope you've isolated this fish to a spare ("hospital") tank >for > > treatment. > > > Since you're concerned about your higher pH, you may just be concerned also > about your hardness (General Hardness, in this case). If so, you should be > aware that Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) will increase your GH, even though it > > won't increase your temporary hardness (KH). I wouldn't recommend adding Epsom > > salt to your 45 gallon tank. > > I'm not sure what you mean by; "if I just add the water . . . ." If you are > changing water, you are also removing water before adding it. When are you > "just adding water?" Changing water on a tank that has Epsom salt added to it > would be counterproductive though, as you've be removing some of the Epsom salt > > you had added. When changing water that has Any salts added to it for >treatment > > purposes, you should always replace the amount of salts that was removed. >While > > on this subject, please let us know how much Epsom salt you've added (and to >how > > large of a tank). > > > If you are just adding water instead of making PWC's, this would be acceptable > short-term although added testings of the parameters would be advised to keep >on > > top of the conditions. Unless the parameters show any harmful indications, > there needn't be any concern for less frequent PWC's during this interum. You > can try increasing the temperature somewhat (what are you keeping it at now?), > which will increase the metabolism and tend to increase digestion, possibly >even > > promoting him to eat peas once again. BTW, pH 8.2 is not terrible, and a > constant pH value is far better than a bouncing one every other day. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "JenniferP" <blazecrazerat@> wrote: > > > > I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. > > I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at >0 > > >except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I > >tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any > > >ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? > > > > Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I > >mistakenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help >him. > > >I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First > >day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps > >with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be > >counter productive to do a water change. > > > > > > I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums >and > > >am trying to learn. Please be gentle. > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49063	From: Ray	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

It would be best to dp this PWC tomorrow, for one thing, to preserve the full effects of the medication until then. When you do make the water chance, if you do a 40% one, you will need to replace 2.8 Tablespoons of Epsom salt (make it an even 3 Tablespoons, since you didn't even add the full 9 Tablespoons at the start). Be sure to match the 85 o temperature you have it at now -- I would boost it just a bit more, too. Your Nitrate closer to 60 ppm souns much better. As I believe I mention, ideally it should be no more than 40 ppm. Many prefer to strive to keep it no more than 20 ppm and still others succeed in keeping it down to around 5 ppm although I suspect their tank(s) may be sparsely stocked. Will you still be getting the 55 gallon that you wrote about a while back? You fish store guy is one to appreciate as he's one of the remarkably few true aquarists who have an intimate knowledge of fish through years of actual experience with them. Learn all you can from him and don't disregard a thing he says; you're in a very unique situation -- one that you shouldn't dismiss. Of course, you may still inquire here whenever you like and we'll do out best in advising you. Yes, exactly, if you keep up with your water changes, and now keep tabs on all your other water parameters (now that you have your kits) making sure they are where they need to be, your somewhat higher pH will be of relatively little consequence and will not negatively impact your fishes. There are hobbyists on these forums who have pH levels higher than yours (like pH 8.5, for instance) and have learned to live with it, keeping their fishes happily alive also -- and I'm talking about ordinary community type fishes. That your naturally-acid-preferring Tetra is still doing well for you is proof-positive that pH is not the deciding factor in keeping fish alive. For you information, there are medications which will safely promote and ensure a fuller action against the pathogen they are being used against when taking into account the amount of incidental dead organic matter existing within the water column that often goes unnoticed when doing maintenance. For the reason that a portion many antibiotics can be absorbed by this organic matter (dead plant leaves, etc.) when overlooked, it is often practiced to factor in greater than normally recommended (or directed) amounts of these meds with the initial dosage. When any such organic matter is present, not to include a supplemental amount of meds in these cases can result in not providing them in the eventual full strength they were intended to work as. This practice cannot be done indiscriminately though, nor should meds be regularly overdosed, but many antibiotic treatments would benefit from the first dose having up to 150% of what's directed as "normal" on the packaging, The uninitiated should never take this upon their own though, as there are some medications that require nothing less than the exact dosage and never anything more. In this case, and since the case may be too advanced anyway to be able to reverse, a safe antibiotic such as Minocycline could be added to, to help ensure a turn around, without posing the least amount of risk. Naturally, an extensive experience with these various fish medications needs to be had first before being able to decide when any of them may at any time be able to be used in any additional amounts, but they can certainly help situations when that knowledge is gained. I'm wishing you luck on your Gourami's recovery; we can only be hopeful. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change tomorrow as > I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I figure I'll do > a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with salt. I did > raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The guy I got > him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering but I'm still > willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the medicine so > I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add water so that > shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite when I > redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water tomorrow I > can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that > information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after letting sit for > 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia seemed to be > less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I provided the > numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than prescribed? > > Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had just added > the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it tomorrow? > Jennifer > > P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 years of fish > knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store including > Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe is if I keep > with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as much of a > factor. Thoughts? > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 5:41:57 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > > > Hi Jennifer, Okay, I see you lost a couple of fish since last time we exchanged > messages. Still have the Angelfish and Gourami's, but only 6 of the 3-Spot-Type > morphs. Noticed the lone Tetra keeps hanging in there, and the Pleco is still > with you (they're fairly htrdy). Still a good number of fish for a 45 High. > > Alright, I thought you were going for liquid test kits, and so you did! Yes, I > saw where you stated you may have messed up the tests. I'm glad to see you did > them over -- and also see that your Nitrate is well up there, as suspected, > although I didn't know it would be quite this high. The Nitrate level is not > dangerous yet but is far from ideal -- and is no doubt due to your somewhat > heavier bioload, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, your 30% to 40% weekly > water changes are not enough. > > > Until you get the 55 gallon set up and transfer some of these fish to it, I'd > recommend you start making PWC's twice weekly to get your Nitrate down -- which > should help in physically removing some of your excess Ammonia at the same time. > Are you still planning on setting up thr 55? Ideally, your Nitrate should be no > more than 40 ppm, although you may relax about this a bit as Nitrate is > relatively harmless compared to the effects of Ammonia and Nitrate -- not that > your Nitrate level is good, however. > > Of much more important concern is your Ammonia -- which I must draw your > attention to immediately. Normally, a level of Total Ammonia of only 0.25 ppm > is not especially harmful at lower pH levels (although still not the greatest to > have at anywhere above Zero). As the pH increases, so will the harmful effects > of Ammonia, as more of the Total Ammonia (Ammonium) will convert to Free-Ammonia > -- which is not good. You need to please be aware that your present Total > Ammonia level of 0.25 ppm will release enough Free-Ammonia to become toxic at a > pH of 8.2 and become lethal at your pH 8.4 (unless you are using water > conditioners such as Prime or Amquel Plus, which ill convert the Free-Ammonia > back to harmless Ammonium. Your Ammonia level may have contributed to your > receny fish deaths. At this same time, I notice you are missing the test result > for for Nitrite level for your re-testing of it. > > Before we get any further in the issue of your water hardness and pH as found in > your aquarium, wait until you get the results of your base line tests of your > tap water. As for black Tahitian sand, as far as I know this is just inert > volcanic rock residue reduced to this fine state over the millenia. I don't > believe calcium would be leached from live clams' shells, especial when your TDS > 9iotal dissolved solids) are obviously high, although \\Steve// may possibly be > able to shed further light on this. > > > Getting to the "patient" of immediate concern, there is a hugh different between > the condition of Bloat, as brought on by indigestion/swelling of the ingested > dried foods within the gut and the manifestation of the condition known commonly > as Dropsy -- which has a number of possible pathogenic causes (both viral and > bacterial). The Pineconing effect you see is definitely the result of Dropsy, > an internal infection that attacks the liver and kidney's, and what you're > seeing is the aftereffect of the kidneys shutting down with the bodily build-up > of fluids. I need to tell you that usually, when the condition reaches this > stage, that it's most often quite difficult (if even at all possible) to reverse > this at the stage it's at. > > > You may give it a try though, and I'll yell you that whoever your local fish > syore keeper is, he's a rare one as he recommended precisely what is required > for treating Dropsey -- even though the hope of turning this around diminished > greatly, beyond catching it early. Prescribing Epsom salt at that exact amount > was right on the money, although if the fish continues to survive, this salt > needs to be added again (in addition to what you've just added) at half the > amount on the 3rd day of treatment. When you mentioned that you thought your > fish store owber suggest a medication starting with an "M," I thought perhaps > you were going to be given the Metronidazole that Donna recommended. I believe > the choice of medication, of Maracyn II is an even better one in this case, even > though I recognize that Donna has had good results with the previously suggested > med. The Maracyn II (TwO) is in reality Minocycline, which would have been one > of my choices, as it's one of the very few broad-spectrum antibiotics which are > readily absorbable internally and one that has good potential in eradicating > such an internal bacteria infection, although if the cause is viral there really > isn't much hope. > > > Additionally, in trying to treat for Dropsy, the best results are had when the > temperature is raised to at least 86 o (I often recommend 90 o, as it's more > effective, but not evetyone trusts that level). In your case though. unless > you're using a good water conditioner that will convert any Free-Ammonia into > Ammonium -- and most good ones will -- I'd have to recommend foregoing raising > of the temperature only as a precaution. I might assume though, although I'd > need confirmation, that you ARE using a good dechloraminator which will ensure > the Free-Ammonia/Ammonium conversion -- in which case the temp should be raised > (I just didn't want to tell you this without also telling you of the need to use > a good water conditioner to control the Ammonia issue). > > > I would still not give the treatment very much hope, as it seems advanced, but > it's the best shot you'll get. Here's hoping for the best. Ray > > --- I@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray thanks for responding. > > The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the > >person > > > > I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've > > lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, one > > > > loan tetra and a pleco. > > > > As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the > > Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not > >done > > > > a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. > > > > I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a water > > > change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I should > > > > have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also the > > > tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the > > whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. > > > > I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb to > > > every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb instead > > > > of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on the > > > > note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be > > increasing my pH? I have black Tahitian sand as a substrate so don't know if > > that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for > >my > > > > pleco. > > > > I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. > > Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was told > > > > I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is > > Maracyn-Two. > > > > > > I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is up > > > to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. > > > > Hopefully this answers a few things. > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 12:26:53 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jennifer, To start off with here, did you get liquid test kits, or test > > strips? I'm only asking this as, unless you don't have very many fish in your > > > tank and unless you regularly do exceptionally large water changes, there > >should > > > > be at least some minimal value showing up with your test for Nitrate since this > > > > is the end product of the nitrifying cycle (which is constantly in progress) > >and > > > > would be evidenced as the cycle working. Since fish are constantly adding > >waste > > > > which is being broken down eventually into Nitrate, you should normally always > > > have some reading for it unless you're removing all of it just before testing > >-- > > > > would would seem impossible to do as there's always more being produced. > > > > I'm aware that you don't have just a few fish, and have a fair amount in your > >45 > > > > gallon tank, consisting of 7 Three-Spot/Blue Gourami's (including all the > > different morphs) -- although 3 of them are smaller -- 1 Pearl Gourami, i lone > > > Tetra, 2 juvenile Angels and 1 Pleco -- and now, a Thick-Lipped Gourami. While > > > > this bioload may not be taxing the water's oxygen content since many are > > labyrinth breathers, there is still a considerable amount of waste being given > > > off by these fish; enough so that the end product of it all should give you > >some > > > > indication. > > > > > > I don't recall the amount or the requency of you PWC's, so perhaps you could > > please remind me, but unless it's considerable, a certain amount of Nitrate > > would always be left behind, in the water column, unless the tank is heavily > > planted (live plants) -- or unless you're feeding very sparingly with keeping > > the temperature lower than usual. > > > > If your tap water is at pH 7.4, and your using this is your source for filling > > > and changing your aquarium's water, the tank's pH should be very near that of > > your tap water -- unless your tap water contains a lot of CO2. Try taking a > > large sample of your tap water in a glass container and let it stand overnight, > > > > testing it first that evening. Then, test it again the following morning to > >see > > > > if the pH has changed. If it hasn't, then there is something in your tank > > increasing the pH. This could be anything from sea shells to your substrate, > >or > > > > something in your filter which you have not indicated to us. Most often, it > > would be the substrate if you bought the wrong one for your needs, as some > > gravel consists of crushed coral or the likes -- which would increase your KH > > and boost your pH. > > > > Sorry to hear about the bloat of your newly acquired Thick-Lipped Gourami. If > > > this were a Dwarf Gourami. I would immediately suspect the possibility of > > Dropsy, as today's Dwarf Gourami's seem rather prone to contracting this. > >While > > > > we still can't rule this out yet, your feeding him freeze-dried blood worms > > directly points to the problem of the fish being bloated as these freeze-dried > > > foods absorb moisture over time, expanding inside of the fish after it's > > consumed -- and causing bloat as a result. Freeze-dried foods should always > >be > > > > soaked prior to feeding to your fish to allow it to soak up moisture prior to > > its being eaten. You addition of Epsom salt to this Gourami's tank was a good > > > move, although I hope you've isolated this fish to a spare ("hospital") tank > >for > > > > treatment. > > > > > > Since you're concerned about your higher pH, you may just be concerned also > > about your hardness (General Hardness, in this case). If so, you should be > > aware that Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) will increase your GH, even though it > > > > won't increase your temporary hardness (KH). I wouldn't recommend adding Epsom > > > > salt to your 45 gallon tank. > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by; "if I just add the water . . . ." If you are > > changing water, you are also removing water before adding it. When are you > > "just adding water?" Changing water on a tank that has Epsom salt added to it > > > would be counterproductive though, as you've be removing some of the Epsom salt > > > > you had added. When changing water that has Any salts added to it for > >treatment > > > > purposes, you should always replace the amount of salts that was removed. > >While > > > > on this subject, please let us know how much Epsom salt you've added (and to > >how > > > > large of a tank). > > > > > > If you are just adding water instead of making PWC's, this would be acceptable > > > short-term although added testings of the parameters would be advised to keep > >on > > > > top of the conditions. Unless the parameters show any harmful indications, > > there needn't be any concern for less frequent PWC's during this interum. You > > > can try increasing the temperature somewhat (what are you keeping it at now?), > > > which will increase the metabolism and tend to increase digestion, possibly > >even > > > > promoting him to eat peas once again. BTW, pH 8.2 is not terrible, and a > > constant pH value is far better than a bouncing one every other day. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "JenniferP" <blazecrazerat@> wrote: > > > > > > I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. > > > I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at > >0 > > > > >except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I > > >tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any > > > > >ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? > > > > > > Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I > > >mistakenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help > >him. > > > > >I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First > > > >day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps > > > >with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be > > > >counter productive to do a water change. > > > > > > > > > I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums > >and > > > > >am trying to learn. Please be gentle. > > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49064	From: William M	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish

With the angelfish laying the eggs on the filter stem, it might be that the water flow is too strong for the sperm to enter the eggs for proper fertilization. If you are wish to I have the angelfish have any viable eggs (as long as you have both a mature male and female) you might wish to transfer them to a smaller tank by themselves such as a 20 gallon (or larger ) tank. Use a sponge filter and do more water changes. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > As Harry says, just monitor the condition of the fish for now. Any changes in the injured area other than improvement, should then be of concern. > > Next time you find eggs on the filter stem, or any other object in the aquarium that appear to be infertile or are fungusing, remove the object from the aquarium before cleaning. It will be easier on you and the fish. > > It may be that you have two females "breeding", or they may be just inexperienced enough not to get the eggs fertilized properly or not care for them properly. Sometimes it takes several tries for the fish to get it right. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish > > Hi, All: > Need some advice - I have a pair of breeding angels in my 100G tall hex that laid their eggs on the filter intake pipe - i left them be until they all turned white (not viable and getting fuzzy) so I decided to scrape them off before they got too moldy. Well, the angels, needless to say, got angry and tho I tried very hard to keep them from harm by blocking my dull plastic scraper with my hand the larger one (female?) came underneath and rammed into it and now has a dent on the top of her head. > My question is, should I just leave it and watch to see if it gets worse or should I immediately treat with Melafix? The other species in the tank are bloodfin tetras, iranian red rainbows, clown loaches, apistogrammas agassizii pair, electric blue and balloon rams, and a peacock eel (about 10 inches long). Last PWC was three days ago (NO2 O ppm, NO3 5 ppm, Ph 7.8, NH3/NH4 0 ppm) > Photo uploaded and awaiting approval - Any advice is appreciated.....thanks. > Clare >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49065	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

I have the 55 gallon tank the only problem that holds me back from setting it up is where to put it and a filter adequate enough for its size. Until both issues are accounted for I am stuck with the 45 gallon. I will do my water change tomorrow with a temp of 85 degree water, tap conditioner added and salt adjusted for a 40% change then I will add the second days medication to the water. When I went in to check on the boy after I had turned the lights off for a while he was sitting on the bottom, very sad. I think (maybe just hoping too hard) that his scales seem to be slightly less protruding, but he sure does look like he's not feeling well. I witnessed my opal gourami picking on him earlier which I was also afraid of and since the opal is the smallest of the gouramis in there and he's the largest size didn't help him much. I can only hope and watch. What a horrible lesson learned with bloodworms just makes me sad. On another note with the 55 gallon, I was thinking about getting a canister filter but don't know the first thing about them other than the Magnum Hot 250 hang on type I have on the 45 gallon. Any suggestions? Jennifer ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 8:58:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues It would be best to dp this PWC tomorrow, for one thing, to preserve the full effects of the medication until then. When you do make the water chance, if you do a 40% one, you will need to replace 2.8 Tablespoons of Epsom salt (make it an even 3 Tablespoons, since you didn't even add the full 9 Tablespoons at the start). Be sure to match the 85 o temperature you have it at now -- I would boost it just a bit more, too. Your Nitrate closer to 60 ppm souns much better. As I believe I mention, ideally it should be no more than 40 ppm. Many prefer to strive to keep it no more than 20 ppm and still others succeed in keeping it down to around 5 ppm although I suspect their tank(s) may be sparsely stocked. Will you still be getting the 55 gallon that you wrote about a while back? You fish store guy is one to appreciate as he's one of the remarkably few true aquarists who have an intimate knowledge of fish through years of actual experience with them. Learn all you can from him and don't disregard a thing he says; you're in a very unique situation -- one that you shouldn't dismiss. Of course, you may still inquire here whenever you like and we'll do out best in advising you. Yes, exactly, if you keep up with your water changes, and now keep tabs on all your other water parameters (now that you have your kits) making sure they are where they need to be, your somewhat higher pH will be of relatively little consequence and will not negatively impact your fishes. There are hobbyists on these forums who have pH levels higher than yours (like pH 8.5, for instance) and have learned to live with it, keeping their fishes happily alive also -- and I'm talking about ordinary community type fishes. That your naturally-acid-preferring Tetra is still doing well for you is proof-positive that pH is not the deciding factor in keeping fish alive. For you information, there are medications which will safely promote and ensure a fuller action against the pathogen they are being used against when taking into account the amount of incidental dead organic matter existing within the water column that often goes unnoticed when doing maintenance. For the reason that a portion many antibiotics can be absorbed by this organic matter (dead plant leaves, etc.) when overlooked, it is often practiced to factor in greater than normally recommended (or directed) amounts of these meds with the initial dosage. When any such organic matter is present, not to include a supplemental amount of meds in these cases can result in not providing them in the eventual full strength they were intended to work as. This practice cannot be done indiscriminately though, nor should meds be regularly overdosed, but many antibiotic treatments would benefit from the first dose having up to 150% of what's directed as "normal" on the packaging, The uninitiated should never take this upon their own though, as there are some medications that require nothing less than the exact dosage and never anything more. In this case, and since the case may be too advanced anyway to be able to reverse, a safe antibiotic such as Minocycline could be added to, to help ensure a turn around, without posing the least amount of risk. Naturally, an extensive experience with these various fish medications needs to be had first before being able to decide when any of them may at any time be able to be used in any additional amounts, but they can certainly help situations when that knowledge is gained. I'm wishing you luck on your Gourami's recovery; we can only be hopeful. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change tomorrow as > > I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I figure I'll do > > a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with salt. I did > raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The guy I got > > him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering but I'm still > > willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the medicine so > I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add water so that > shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite when I > redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water tomorrow I > can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that > information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after letting sit >for > > 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia seemed to be > > less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I provided the > numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than prescribed? > > Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had just added > > the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it tomorrow? > Jennifer > > P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 years of fish > > knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store including > Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe is if I >keep > > with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as much of a > factor. Thoughts? > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 5:41:57 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > > > Hi Jennifer, Okay, I see you lost a couple of fish since last time we >exchanged > > messages. Still have the Angelfish and Gourami's, but only 6 of the >3-Spot-Type > > morphs. Noticed the lone Tetra keeps hanging in there, and the Pleco is still > with you (they're fairly htrdy). Still a good number of fish for a 45 High. > > Alright, I thought you were going for liquid test kits, and so you did! Yes, I > > saw where you stated you may have messed up the tests. I'm glad to see you did > > them over -- and also see that your Nitrate is well up there, as suspected, > although I didn't know it would be quite this high. The Nitrate level is not > dangerous yet but is far from ideal -- and is no doubt due to your somewhat > heavier bioload, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, your 30% to 40% weekly > water changes are not enough. > > > Until you get the 55 gallon set up and transfer some of these fish to it, I'd > recommend you start making PWC's twice weekly to get your Nitrate down -- which > > should help in physically removing some of your excess Ammonia at the same >time. > > Are you still planning on setting up thr 55? Ideally, your Nitrate should be >no > > more than 40 ppm, although you may relax about this a bit as Nitrate is > relatively harmless compared to the effects of Ammonia and Nitrate -- not that > your Nitrate level is good, however. > > Of much more important concern is your Ammonia -- which I must draw your > attention to immediately. Normally, a level of Total Ammonia of only 0.25 ppm > is not especially harmful at lower pH levels (although still not the greatest >to > > have at anywhere above Zero). As the pH increases, so will the harmful effects > > of Ammonia, as more of the Total Ammonia (Ammonium) will convert to >Free-Ammonia > > -- which is not good. You need to please be aware that your present Total > Ammonia level of 0.25 ppm will release enough Free-Ammonia to become toxic at a > > pH of 8.2 and become lethal at your pH 8.4 (unless you are using water > conditioners such as Prime or Amquel Plus, which ill convert the Free-Ammonia > back to harmless Ammonium. Your Ammonia level may have contributed to your > receny fish deaths. At this same time, I notice you are missing the test >result > > for for Nitrite level for your re-testing of it. > > Before we get any further in the issue of your water hardness and pH as found >in > > your aquarium, wait until you get the results of your base line tests of your > tap water. As for black Tahitian sand, as far as I know this is just inert > volcanic rock residue reduced to this fine state over the millenia. I don't > believe calcium would be leached from live clams' shells, especial when your >TDS > > 9iotal dissolved solids) are obviously high, although \\Steve// may possibly be > > able to shed further light on this. > > > Getting to the "patient" of immediate concern, there is a hugh different >between > > the condition of Bloat, as brought on by indigestion/swelling of the ingested > dried foods within the gut and the manifestation of the condition known >commonly > > as Dropsy -- which has a number of possible pathogenic causes (both viral and > bacterial). The Pineconing effect you see is definitely the result of Dropsy, > an internal infection that attacks the liver and kidney's, and what you're > seeing is the aftereffect of the kidneys shutting down with the bodily build-up > > of fluids. I need to tell you that usually, when the condition reaches this > stage, that it's most often quite difficult (if even at all possible) to >reverse > > this at the stage it's at. > > > You may give it a try though, and I'll yell you that whoever your local fish > syore keeper is, he's a rare one as he recommended precisely what is required > for treating Dropsey -- even though the hope of turning this around diminished > greatly, beyond catching it early. Prescribing Epsom salt at that exact amount > > was right on the money, although if the fish continues to survive, this salt > needs to be added again (in addition to what you've just added) at half the > amount on the 3rd day of treatment. When you mentioned that you thought your > fish store owber suggest a medication starting with an "M," I thought perhaps > you were going to be given the Metronidazole that Donna recommended. I believe > > the choice of medication, of Maracyn II is an even better one in this case, >even > > though I recognize that Donna has had good results with the previously >suggested > > med. The Maracyn II (TwO) is in reality Minocycline, which would have been one > > of my choices, as it's one of the very few broad-spectrum antibiotics which are > > readily absorbable internally and one that has good potential in eradicating > such an internal bacteria infection, although if the cause is viral there >really > > isn't much hope. > > > Additionally, in trying to treat for Dropsy, the best results are had when the > temperature is raised to at least 86 o (I often recommend 90 o, as it's more > effective, but not evetyone trusts that level). In your case though. unless > you're using a good water conditioner that will convert any Free-Ammonia into > Ammonium -- and most good ones will -- I'd have to recommend foregoing raising > of the temperature only as a precaution. I might assume though, although I'd > need confirmation, that you ARE using a good dechloraminator which will ensure > the Free-Ammonia/Ammonium conversion -- in which case the temp should be raised > > (I just didn't want to tell you this without also telling you of the need to >use > > a good water conditioner to control the Ammonia issue). > > > I would still not give the treatment very much hope, as it seems advanced, but > it's the best shot you'll get. Here's hoping for the best. Ray > > --- I@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray thanks for responding. > > The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the > >person > > > > I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've > > lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, >one > > > > > loan tetra and a pleco. > > > > As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the > > Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not > >done > > > > a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. > > > > I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a >water > > > > change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I >should > > > > > have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also >the > > > > tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the > > > whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. > > > > I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb >to > > > > every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb >instead > > > > > of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on >the > > > > > note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be > > increasing my pH? I have black Tahitian sand as a substrate so don't know if > > > that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for > > >my > > > > pleco. > > > > I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. > > Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was >told > > > > > I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is > > Maracyn-Two. > > > > > > I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is >up > > > > to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. > > > > Hopefully this answers a few things. > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 12:26:53 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jennifer, To start off with here, did you get liquid test kits, or test > > strips? I'm only asking this as, unless you don't have very many fish in >your > > > > tank and unless you regularly do exceptionally large water changes, there > >should > > > > be at least some minimal value showing up with your test for Nitrate since >this > > > > > is the end product of the nitrifying cycle (which is constantly in progress) > >and > > > > would be evidenced as the cycle working. Since fish are constantly adding > >waste > > > > which is being broken down eventually into Nitrate, you should normally >always > > > > have some reading for it unless you're removing all of it just before testing > > >-- > > > > would would seem impossible to do as there's always more being produced. > > > > I'm aware that you don't have just a few fish, and have a fair amount in your > > >45 > > > > gallon tank, consisting of 7 Three-Spot/Blue Gourami's (including all the > > different morphs) -- although 3 of them are smaller -- 1 Pearl Gourami, i >lone > > > > Tetra, 2 juvenile Angels and 1 Pleco -- and now, a Thick-Lipped Gourami. >While > > > > > this bioload may not be taxing the water's oxygen content since many are > > labyrinth breathers, there is still a considerable amount of waste being >given > > > > off by these fish; enough so that the end product of it all should give you > >some > > > > indication. > > > > > > I don't recall the amount or the requency of you PWC's, so perhaps you could > > please remind me, but unless it's considerable, a certain amount of Nitrate > > would always be left behind, in the water column, unless the tank is heavily > > planted (live plants) -- or unless you're feeding very sparingly with keeping > > > the temperature lower than usual. > > > > If your tap water is at pH 7.4, and your using this is your source for >filling > > > > and changing your aquarium's water, the tank's pH should be very near that of > > > your tap water -- unless your tap water contains a lot of CO2. Try taking a > > large sample of your tap water in a glass container and let it stand >overnight, > > > > > testing it first that evening. Then, test it again the following morning to > >see > > > > if the pH has changed. If it hasn't, then there is something in your tank > > increasing the pH. This could be anything from sea shells to your substrate, > > >or > > > > something in your filter which you have not indicated to us. Most often, it > > would be the substrate if you bought the wrong one for your needs, as some > > gravel consists of crushed coral or the likes -- which would increase your KH > > > and boost your pH. > > > > Sorry to hear about the bloat of your newly acquired Thick-Lipped Gourami. >If > > > > this were a Dwarf Gourami. I would immediately suspect the possibility of > > Dropsy, as today's Dwarf Gourami's seem rather prone to contracting this. > >While > > > > we still can't rule this out yet, your feeding him freeze-dried blood worms > > directly points to the problem of the fish being bloated as these >freeze-dried > > > > foods absorb moisture over time, expanding inside of the fish after it's > > consumed -- and causing bloat as a result. Freeze-dried foods should always > > >be > > > > soaked prior to feeding to your fish to allow it to soak up moisture prior to > > > its being eaten. You addition of Epsom salt to this Gourami's tank was a >good > > > > move, although I hope you've isolated this fish to a spare ("hospital") tank > >for > > > > treatment. > > > > > > Since you're concerned about your higher pH, you may just be concerned also > > about your hardness (General Hardness, in this case). If so, you should be > > aware that Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) will increase your GH, even though >it > > > > > won't increase your temporary hardness (KH). I wouldn't recommend adding >Epsom > > > > > salt to your 45 gallon tank. > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by; "if I just add the water . . . ." If you are > > changing water, you are also removing water before adding it. When are you > > "just adding water?" Changing water on a tank that has Epsom salt added to >it > > > > would be counterproductive though, as you've be removing some of the Epsom >salt > > > > > you had added. When changing water that has Any salts added to it for > >treatment > > > > purposes, you should always replace the amount of salts that was removed. > >While > > > > on this subject, please let us know how much Epsom salt you've added (and to > >how > > > > large of a tank). > > > > > > If you are just adding water instead of making PWC's, this would be >acceptable > > > > short-term although added testings of the parameters would be advised to keep > > >on > > > > top of the conditions. Unless the parameters show any harmful indications, > > there needn't be any concern for less frequent PWC's during this interum. >You > > > > can try increasing the temperature somewhat (what are you keeping it at >now?), > > > > which will increase the metabolism and tend to increase digestion, possibly > >even > > > > promoting him to eat peas once again. BTW, pH 8.2 is not terrible, and a > > constant pH value is far better than a bouncing one every other day. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "JenniferP" <blazecrazerat@> wrote: > > > > > > I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. > > > I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are >at > > >0 > > > > >except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I > > >tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. >Any > > > > > >ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? > > > > > > Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I > > >mistakenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help > >him. > > > > >I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. >First > > > > >day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water >helps > > > > >with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it >be > > > > >counter productive to do a water change. > > > > > > > > > I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums > >and > > > > >am trying to learn. Please be gentle. > > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49066	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

I highly recommend the rena filstar xp's they are cheaper than most canister filters and fairly easy to clean and get running again (as long as you don't let all the water drain from the hoses between cleanings). I have 2 of these and the only problem I've had was from (I think) one of the canister's being dropped and cracking and developing a large leak because of the crack. Other than that they're great filters and easy to replace any parts if needed (from rena's website). You can also find them on ebay fairly cheaper than on store sites, if you shop on ebay at all. I like to use higher powered canisters on my tanks than the "recommended" size on the manufacture sites, so I have rena xp 4's on my tanks. Amber Jennifer Pare wrote: > > > I have the 55 gallon tank the only problem that holds me back from > setting it up > is where to put it and a filter adequate enough for its size. Until > both issues > are accounted for I am stuck with the 45 gallon. > > I will do my water change tomorrow with a temp of 85 degree water, tap > conditioner added and salt adjusted for a 40% change then I will add > the second > days medication to the water. > > When I went in to check on the boy after I had turned the lights off > for a while > he was sitting on the bottom, very sad. I think (maybe just hoping too > hard) > that his scales seem to be slightly less protruding, but he sure does > look like > he's not feeling well. I witnessed my opal gourami picking on him > earlier which > I was also afraid of and since the opal is the smallest of the > gouramis in there > and he's the largest size didn't help him much. I can only hope and > watch. > What a horrible lesson learned with bloodworms just makes me sad. > > On another note with the 55 gallon, I was thinking about getting a > canister > filter but don't know the first thing about them other than the Magnum > Hot 250 > hang on type I have on the 45 gallon. Any suggestions? > Jennifer > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 8:58:50 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > It would be best to dp this PWC tomorrow, for one thing, to preserve > the full > effects of the medication until then. When you do make the water > chance, if you > do a 40% one, you will need to replace 2.8 Tablespoons of Epsom salt > (make it an > even 3 Tablespoons, since you didn't even add the full 9 Tablespoons > at the > start). Be sure to match the 85 o temperature you have it at now -- I > would > boost it just a bit more, too. Your Nitrate closer to 60 ppm souns > much better. > As I believe I mention, ideally it should be no more than 40 ppm. Many > prefer > to strive to keep it no more than 20 ppm and still others succeed in > keeping it > down to around 5 ppm although I suspect their tank(s) may be sparsely > stocked. > Will you still be getting the 55 gallon that you wrote about a while back? > > You fish store guy is one to appreciate as he's one of the remarkably > few true > aquarists who have an intimate knowledge of fish through years of actual > experience with them. Learn all you can from him and don't disregard a > thing he > says; you're in a very unique situation -- one that you shouldn't > dismiss. Of > course, you may still inquire here whenever you like and we'll do out > best in > advising you. > > Yes, exactly, if you keep up with your water changes, and now keep > tabs on all > your other water parameters (now that you have your kits) making sure > they are > where they need to be, your somewhat higher pH will be of relatively > little > consequence and will not negatively impact your fishes. There are > hobbyists on > these forums who have pH levels higher than yours (like pH 8.5, for > instance) > and have learned to live with it, keeping their fishes happily alive > also -- and > I'm talking about ordinary community type fishes. That your > naturally-acid-preferring Tetra is still doing well for you is > proof-positive > that pH is not the deciding factor in keeping fish alive. > > For you information, there are medications which will safely promote > and ensure > a fuller action against the pathogen they are being used against when > taking > into account the amount of incidental dead organic matter existing > within the > water column that often goes unnoticed when doing maintenance. For the > reason > that a portion many antibiotics can be absorbed by this organic matter > (dead > plant leaves, etc.) when overlooked, it is often practiced to factor > in greater > than normally recommended (or directed) amounts of these meds with the > initial > dosage. When any such organic matter is present, not to include a > supplemental > amount of meds in these cases can result in not providing them in the > eventual > full strength they were intended to work as. This practice cannot be done > indiscriminately though, nor should meds be regularly overdosed, but many > antibiotic treatments would benefit from the first dose having up to > 150% of > what's directed as "normal" on the packaging, The uninitiated should > never take > this upon their own though, as there are some medications that require > nothing > less than the exact dosage and never anything more. In this case, and > since the > case may be too advanced anyway to be able to reverse, a safe > antibiotic such as > Minocycline could be added to, to help ensure a turn around, without > posing the > least amount of risk. Naturally, an extensive experience with these > various > fish medications needs to be had first before being able to decide > when any of > them may at any time be able to be used in any additional amounts, but > they can > certainly help situations when that knowledge is gained. I'm wishing > you luck > on your Gourami's recovery; we can only be hopeful. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Jennifer Pare > <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > > > Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change > tomorrow as > > > > I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I > figure I'll do > > > > a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with > salt. I did > > > raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The > guy I got > > > > him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering > but I'm still > > > > willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the > medicine so > > > I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add > water so that > > > shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite > when I > > redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water > tomorrow I > > > can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that > > information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after > letting sit > >for > > > > 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia > seemed to be > > > > less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I > provided the > > numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than > prescribed? > > > > Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had > just added > > > > the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it > tomorrow? > > Jennifer > > > > P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 > years of fish > > > > knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store > including > > > Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe > is if I > >keep > > > > with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as > much of a > > > factor. Thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 5:41:57 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jennifer, Okay, I see you lost a couple of fish since last time we > >exchanged > > > > messages. Still have the Angelfish and Gourami's, but only 6 of the > >3-Spot-Type > > > > morphs. Noticed the lone Tetra keeps hanging in there, and the Pleco > is still > > > with you (they're fairly htrdy). Still a good number of fish for a > 45 High. > > > > Alright, I thought you were going for liquid test kits, and so you > did! Yes, I > > > > saw where you stated you may have messed up the tests. I'm glad to > see you did > > > > them over -- and also see that your Nitrate is well up there, as > suspected, > > although I didn't know it would be quite this high. The Nitrate > level is not > > dangerous yet but is far from ideal -- and is no doubt due to your > somewhat > > heavier bioload, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, your 30% to 40% > weekly > > water changes are not enough. > > > > > > Until you get the 55 gallon set up and transfer some of these fish > to it, I'd > > recommend you start making PWC's twice weekly to get your Nitrate > down -- which > > > > should help in physically removing some of your excess Ammonia at > the same > >time. > > > > Are you still planning on setting up thr 55? Ideally, your Nitrate > should be > >no > > > > more than 40 ppm, although you may relax about this a bit as Nitrate is > > relatively harmless compared to the effects of Ammonia and Nitrate > -- not that > > > your Nitrate level is good, however. > > > > Of much more important concern is your Ammonia -- which I must draw > your > > attention to immediately. Normally, a level of Total Ammonia of only > 0.25 ppm > > > is not especially harmful at lower pH levels (although still not the > greatest > >to > > > > have at anywhere above Zero). As the pH increases, so will the > harmful effects > > > > of Ammonia, as more of the Total Ammonia (Ammonium) will convert to > >Free-Ammonia > > > > -- which is not good. You need to please be aware that your present > Total > > Ammonia level of 0.25 ppm will release enough Free-Ammonia to become > toxic at a > > > > pH of 8.2 and become lethal at your pH 8.4 (unless you are using water > > conditioners such as Prime or Amquel Plus, which ill convert the > Free-Ammonia > > back to harmless Ammonium. Your Ammonia level may have contributed > to your > > receny fish deaths. At this same time, I notice you are missing the > test > >result > > > > for for Nitrite level for your re-testing of it. > > > > Before we get any further in the issue of your water hardness and pH > as found > >in > > > > your aquarium, wait until you get the results of your base line > tests of your > > tap water. As for black Tahitian sand, as far as I know this is just > inert > > volcanic rock residue reduced to this fine state over the millenia. > I don't > > believe calcium would be leached from live clams' shells, especial > when your > >TDS > > > > 9iotal dissolved solids) are obviously high, although \\Steve// may > possibly be > > > > able to shed further light on this. > > > > > > Getting to the "patient" of immediate concern, there is a hugh > different > >between > > > > the condition of Bloat, as brought on by indigestion/swelling of the > ingested > > dried foods within the gut and the manifestation of the condition known > >commonly > > > > as Dropsy -- which has a number of possible pathogenic causes (both > viral and > > bacterial). The Pineconing effect you see is definitely the result > of Dropsy, > > > an internal infection that attacks the liver and kidney's, and what > you're > > seeing is the aftereffect of the kidneys shutting down with the > bodily build-up > > > > of fluids. I need to tell you that usually, when the condition > reaches this > > stage, that it's most often quite difficult (if even at all > possible) to > >reverse > > > > this at the stage it's at. > > > > > > You may give it a try though, and I'll yell you that whoever your > local fish > > syore keeper is, he's a rare one as he recommended precisely what is > required > > for treating Dropsey -- even though the hope of turning this around > diminished > > > greatly, beyond catching it early. Prescribing Epsom salt at that > exact amount > > > > was right on the money, although if the fish continues to survive, > this salt > > needs to be added again (in addition to what you've just added) at > half the > > amount on the 3rd day of treatment. When you mentioned that you > thought your > > fish store owber suggest a medication starting with an "M," I > thought perhaps > > you were going to be given the Metronidazole that Donna recommended. > I believe > > > > the choice of medication, of Maracyn II is an even better one in > this case, > >even > > > > though I recognize that Donna has had good results with the previously > >suggested > > > > med. The Maracyn II (TwO) is in reality Minocycline, which would > have been one > > > > of my choices, as it's one of the very few broad-spectrum > antibiotics which are > > > > readily absorbable internally and one that has good potential in > eradicating > > such an internal bacteria infection, although if the cause is viral > there > >really > > > > isn't much hope. > > > > > > Additionally, in trying to treat for Dropsy, the best results are > had when the > > > temperature is raised to at least 86 o (I often recommend 90 o, as > it's more > > effective, but not evetyone trusts that level). In your case though. > unless > > you're using a good water conditioner that will convert any > Free-Ammonia into > > Ammonium -- and most good ones will -- I'd have to recommend > foregoing raising > > > of the temperature only as a precaution. I might assume though, > although I'd > > need confirmation, that you ARE using a good dechloraminator which > will ensure > > > the Free-Ammonia/Ammonium conversion -- in which case the temp > should be raised > > > > (I just didn't want to tell you this without also telling you of the > need to > >use > > > > a good water conditioner to control the Ammonia issue). > > > > > > I would still not give the treatment very much hope, as it seems > advanced, but > > > it's the best shot you'll get. Here's hoping for the best. Ray > > > > --- I@yahoogroups.com <mailto:I%40yahoogroups.com>, Jennifer Pare > <blazecrazerat@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray thanks for responding. > > > The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me > by the > > >person > > > > > > I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as > follows as I've > > > > lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick > lipped, > >one > > > > > > > > loan tetra and a pleco. > > > > > > As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have > screwed up the > > > Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also > have not > > >done > > > > > > a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. > > > > > > I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due > for a > >water > > > > > > > change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you > say I > >should > > > > > > > > have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back > soon. Also > >the > > > > > > > tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the > word. For the > > > > > whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. > > > > > > I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to > do 1 Tb > >to > > > > > > > every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with > 7 Tb > >instead > > > > > > > > of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. > Also on > >the > > > > > > > > note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could > that be > > > increasing my pH? I have black Tahitian sand as a substrate so > don't know if > > > > > that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water > as well for > > > > >my > > > > > > pleco. > > > > > > I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make > him worse. > > > Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water > and was > >told > > > > > > > > I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The > medication is > > > Maracyn-Two. > > > > > > > > > I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm > and pH is > >up > > > > > > > to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. > > > > > > Hopefully this answers a few things. > > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 12:26:53 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jennifer, To start off with here, did you get liquid test kits, > or test > > > strips? I'm only asking this as, unless you don't have very many > fish in > >your > > > > > > > tank and unless you regularly do exceptionally large water > changes, there > > >should > > > > > > be at least some minimal value showing up with your test for > Nitrate since > >this > > > > > > > > is the end product of the nitrifying cycle (which is constantly in > progress) > > > >and > > > > > > would be evidenced as the cycle working. Since fish are constantly > adding > > >waste > > > > > > which is being broken down eventually into Nitrate, you should > normally > >always > > > > > > > have some reading for it unless you're removing all of it just > before testing > > > > >-- > > > > > > would would seem impossible to do as there's always more being > produced. > > > > > > I'm aware that you don't have just a few fish, and have a fair > amount in your > > > > >45 > > > > > > gallon tank, consisting of 7 Three-Spot/Blue Gourami's (including > all the > > > different morphs) -- although 3 of them are smaller -- 1 Pearl > Gourami, i > >lone > > > > > > > Tetra, 2 juvenile Angels and 1 Pleco -- and now, a Thick-Lipped > Gourami. > >While > > > > > > > > this bioload may not be taxing the water's oxygen content since > many are > > > labyrinth breathers, there is still a considerable amount of waste > being > >given > > > > > > > off by these fish; enough so that the end product of it all should > give you > > >some > > > > > > indication. > > > > > > > > > I don't recall the amount or the requency of you PWC's, so perhaps > you could > > > > please remind me, but unless it's considerable, a certain amount > of Nitrate > > > would always be left behind, in the water column, unless the tank > is heavily > > > > planted (live plants) -- or unless you're feeding very sparingly > with keeping > > > > > the temperature lower than usual. > > > > > > If your tap water is at pH 7.4, and your using this is your source > for > >filling > > > > > > > and changing your aquarium's water, the tank's pH should be very > near that of > > > > > your tap water -- unless your tap water contains a lot of CO2. Try > taking a > > > > large sample of your tap water in a glass container and let it stand > >overnight, > > > > > > > > testing it first that evening. Then, test it again the following > morning to > > > >see > > > > > > if the pH has changed. If it hasn't, then there is something in > your tank > > > increasing the pH. This could be anything from sea shells to your > substrate, > > > > >or > > > > > > something in your filter which you have not indicated to us. Most > often, it > > > > would be the substrate if you bought the wrong one for your needs, > as some > > > gravel consists of crushed coral or the likes -- which would > increase your KH > > > > > and boost your pH. > > > > > > Sorry to hear about the bloat of your newly acquired Thick-Lipped > Gourami. > >If > > > > > > > this were a Dwarf Gourami. I would immediately suspect the > possibility of > > > Dropsy, as today's Dwarf Gourami's seem rather prone to > contracting this. > > >While > > > > > > we still can't rule this out yet, your feeding him freeze-dried > blood worms > > > directly points to the problem of the fish being bloated as these > >freeze-dried > > > > > > > foods absorb moisture over time, expanding inside of the fish > after it's > > > consumed -- and causing bloat as a result. Freeze-dried foods > should always > > > > >be > > > > > > soaked prior to feeding to your fish to allow it to soak up > moisture prior to > > > > > its being eaten. You addition of Epsom salt to this Gourami's tank > was a > >good > > > > > > > move, although I hope you've isolated this fish to a spare > ("hospital") tank > > > >for > > > > > > treatment. > > > > > > > > > Since you're concerned about your higher pH, you may just be > concerned also > > > about your hardness (General Hardness, in this case). If so, you > should be > > > aware that Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) will increase your GH, > even though > >it > > > > > > > > won't increase your temporary hardness (KH). I wouldn't recommend > adding > >Epsom > > > > > > > > salt to your 45 gallon tank. > > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by; "if I just add the water . . . ." > If you are > > > > changing water, you are also removing water before adding it. When > are you > > > "just adding water?" Changing water on a tank that has Epsom salt > added to > >it > > > > > > > would be counterproductive though, as you've be removing some of > the Epsom > >salt > > > > > > > > you had added. When changing water that has Any salts added to it for > > >treatment > > > > > > purposes, you should always replace the amount of salts that was > removed. > > >While > > > > > > on this subject, please let us know how much Epsom salt you've > added (and to > > > >how > > > > > > large of a tank). > > > > > > > > > If you are just adding water instead of making PWC's, this would be > >acceptable > > > > > > > short-term although added testings of the parameters would be > advised to keep > > > > >on > > > > > > top of the conditions. Unless the parameters show any harmful > indications, > > > there needn't be any concern for less frequent PWC's during this > interum. > >You > > > > > > > can try increasing the temperature somewhat (what are you keeping > it at > >now?), > > > > > > > which will increase the metabolism and tend to increase digestion, > possibly > > >even > > > > > > promoting him to eat peas once again. BTW, pH 8.2 is not terrible, > and a > > > constant pH value is far better than a bouncing one every other > day. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "JenniferP" <blazecrazerat@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. > > > > I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my > values are > >at > > > > >0 > > > > > > >except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at > 8.2 pH. I > > > >tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around > 7.4 pH. > >Any > > > > > > > > >ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every > other day? > > > > > > > > Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has > bloat. I > > > > >mistakenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm > fighting to help > > > >him. > > > > > > >I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding > peas. > >First > > > > > > > >day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner > water > >helps > > > > > > > >with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water > wouldn't it > >be > > > > > > > >counter productive to do a water change. > > > > > > > > > > > > I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about > aquariums > > > >and > > > > > > >am trying to learn. Please be gentle. > > > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49067	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Jennifer, Your .25 ammonia level now can be somewhat worrisome. It may indicate that your tap water contains chloramines and you are not properly treating it. It could indicate that you have had a constant low level ammonia exposure for your fish in the tank and that the cycle is not fully completed yet. In the first case, the fix is easy. Just use a water conditioner that removes the chlorine and de-toxifies ammonia (they usually advertise removes, but that is not true--the chemical process causes the ammonia to change into a non-toxic form that is still useable by the bacteria that uses ammonia and converts it to nitrite. The second case is a bit more unlikely, but still a possibility. If you test again tomorrow, and there is still ammonia in the water, then your cycle is not completely established and will need more time to become established. Only time will resolve this issue. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Hi Ray thanks for responding. The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the person I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, one loan tetra and a pleco. As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not done a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a water change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I should have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also the tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb to every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb instead of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on the note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be increasing my pH? I have black tahitan sand as a substrate so don't know if that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for my pleco. I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was told I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is Maracyn-Two. I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is up to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. Hopefully this answers a few things. Jennifer ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 12:26:53 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Hi Jennifer, To start off with here, did you get liquid test kits, or test strips? I'm only asking this as, unless you don't have very many fish in your tank and unless you regularly do exceptionally large water changes, there should be at least some minimal value showing up with your test for Nitrate since this is the end product of the nitrifying cycle (which is constantly in progress) and would be evidenced as the cycle working. Since fish are constantly adding waste which is being broken down eventually into Nitrate, you should normally always have some reading for it unless you're removing all of it just before testing -- would would seem impossible to do as there's always more being produced. I'm aware that you don't have just a few fish, and have a fair amount in your 45 gallon tank, consisting of 7 Three-Spot/Blue Gourami's (including all the different morphs) -- although 3 of them are smaller -- 1 Pearl Gourami, i lone Tetra, 2 juvenile Angels and 1 Pleco -- and now, a Thick-Lipped Gourami. While this bioload may not be taxing the water's oxygen content since many are labyrinth breathers, there is still a considerable amount of waste being given off by these fish; enough so that the end product of it all should give you some indication. I don't recall the amount or the requency of you PWC's, so perhaps you could please remind me, but unless it's considerable, a certain amount of Nitrate would always be left behind, in the water column, unless the tank is heavily planted (live plants) -- or unless you're feeding very sparingly with keeping the temperature lower than usual. If your tap water is at pH 7.4, and your using this is your source for filling and changing your aquarium's water, the tank's pH should be very near that of your tap water -- unless your tap water contains a lot of CO2. Try taking a large sample of your tap water in a glass container and let it stand overnight, testing it first that evening. Then, test it again the following morning to see if the pH has changed. If it hasn't, then there is something in your tank increasing the pH. This could be anything from sea shells to your substrate, or something in your filter which you have not indicated to us. Most often, it would be the substrate if you bought the wrong one for your needs, as some gravel consists of crushed coral or the likes -- which would increase your KH and boost your pH. Sorry to hear about the bloat of your newly acquired Thick-Lipped Gourami. If this were a Dwarf Gourami. I would immediately suspect the possibility of Dropsy, as today's Dwarf Gourami's seem rather prone to contracting this. While we still can't rule this out yet, your feeding him freeze-dried blood worms directly points to the problem of the fish being bloated as these freeze-dried foods absorb moisture over time, expanding inside of the fish after it's consumed -- and causing bloat as a result. Freeze-dried foods should always be soaked prior to feeding to your fish to allow it to soak up moisture prior to its being eaten. You addition of Epsom salt to this Gourami's tank was a good move, although I hope you've isolated this fish to a spare ("hospital") tank for treatment. Since you're concerned about your higher pH, you may just be concerned also about your hardness (General Hardness, in this case). If so, you should be aware that Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) will increase your GH, even though it won't increase your temporary hardness (KH). I wouldn't recommend adding Epsom salt to your 45 gallon tank. I'm not sure what you mean by; "if I just add the water . . . ." If you are changing water, you are also removing water before adding it. When are you "just adding water?" Changing water on a tank that has Epsom salt added to it would be counterproductive though, as you've be removing some of the Epsom salt you had added. When changing water that has Any salts added to it for treatment purposes, you should always replace the amount of salts that was removed. While on this subject, please let us know how much Epsom salt you've added (and to how large of a tank). If you are just adding water instead of making PWC's, this would be acceptable short-term although added testings of the parameters would be advised to keep on top of the conditions. Unless the parameters show any harmful indications, there needn't be any concern for less frequent PWC's during this interum. You can try increasing the temperature somewhat (what are you keeping it at now?), which will increase the metabolism and tend to increase digestion, possibly even promoting him to eat peas once again. BTW, pH 8.2 is not terrible, and a constant pH value is far better than a bouncing one every other day. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "JenniferP" <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > I had posted sometime earlier this month with a question on pH. > I was waiting for my test kit which has since arrived. All my values are at 0 >except the pH which I had expected is high. It is currently at 8.2 pH. I >tested my regular water out of the tap and it comes out at around 7.4 pH. Any >ideas on how I can lower the pH other than a water change every other day? > > Also I have a new issue. I have a thick lipped gourami that has bloat. I >mistakenly fed them too many dried blood worms and now I'm fighting to help him. >I have added epsom salt to the water and I'm on day 2 of feeding peas. First >day he ate a little, today he wouldn't. Also I read that cleaner water helps >with lots of things but I'm confused if I just added the water wouldn't it be >counter productive to do a water change. > > > I really don't mean to sound stupid I just don't know alot about aquariums and >am trying to learn. Please be gentle. > Jennifer >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49068	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Bloat and dropsy are two different problems. Bloat can be cured. Generally, dropsy cannot, unless caught and treated at a very early stage. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues I was told dropsy and bloat is the same thing, but the medication I picked up specifically targets Dropsy on the package. From what I've read bloat or dropsy is what he has. ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 2:36:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues Jennifer - This could be dropsy - why don't you look up pictures of dropsy and see if it fits. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 22, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > he looks like a pine cone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49069	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Donna, We would like to see all the tests. The pH is a definite factor to see if it is level, or if it raises or lowers. In this case we need to know if we should be looking for another source of the rise in pH Jennifer has experienced. The ammonia tests will help us determine if she has chloramines in her water if the ammonia does not show on the first test but does show on the second and/or third tests. The nitrite test shows if there is the presence of nitrites in the water to start. The nitrate test is to show the presence of any nitrates. Though the EPA says a water supply should be less than 10 ppm, there are a lot of supplies that exceed that level still. This could contribute to her level of nitrates she has recently measured and will make it more difficult to lower that level. So, all the tests are important, and they should be done at the initial draw of the water, 24 hours later and then another 24 hours later for a group of three points. While the largest change will happen within the first 24 hours, they can continue for even longer than the 48 hours recommended for a baseline, but, by the end of 48 hours we should have a pretty good idea of what it going on. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues I think you only need to test the pH after having the tap water sit out in a bowl, not the other tests like ammonia and nitrate. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are tank water tests, not tap water tests. (Usually.) _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change tomorrow as I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I figure I'll do a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with salt. I did raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The guy I got him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering but I'm still willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the medicine so I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add water so that shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite when I redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water tomorrow I can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after letting sit for 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia seemed to be less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I provided the numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than prescribed? Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had just added the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it tomorrow? Jennifer P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 years of fish knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store including Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe is if I keep with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as much of a factor. Thoughts? ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 5:41:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Hi Jennifer, Okay, I see you lost a couple of fish since last time we exchanged messages. Still have the Angelfish and Gourami's, but only 6 of the 3-Spot-Type morphs. Noticed the lone Tetra keeps hanging in there, and the Pleco is still with you (they're fairly htrdy). Still a good number of fish for a 45 High. Alright, I thought you were going for liquid test kits, and so you did! Yes, I saw where you stated you may have messed up the tests. I'm glad to see you did them over -- and also see that your Nitrate is well up there, as suspected, although I didn't know it would be quite this high. The Nitrate level is not dangerous yet but is far from ideal -- and is no doubt due to your somewhat heavier bioload, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, your 30% to 40% weekly water changes are not enough. Until you get the 55 gallon set up and transfer some of these fish to it, I'd recommend you start making PWC's twice weekly to get your Nitrate down -- which should help in physically removing some of your excess Ammonia at the same time. Are you still planning on setting up thr 55? Ideally, your Nitrate should be no more than 40 ppm, although you may relax about this a bit as Nitrate is relatively harmless compared to the effects of Ammonia and Nitrate -- not that your Nitrate level is good, however. Of much more important concern is your Ammonia -- which I must draw your attention to immediately. Normally, a level of Total Ammonia of only 0.25 ppm is not especially harmful at lower pH levels (although still not the greatest to have at anywhere above Zero). As the pH increases, so will the harmful effects of Ammonia, as more of the Total Ammonia (Ammonium) will convert to Free-Ammonia -- which is not good. You need to please be aware that your present Total Ammonia level of 0.25 ppm will release enough Free-Ammonia to become toxic at a pH of 8.2 and become lethal at your pH 8.4 (unless you are using water conditioners such as Prime or Amquel Plus, which ill convert the Free-Ammonia back to harmless Ammonium. Your Ammonia level may have contributed to your receny fish deaths. At this same time, I notice you are missing the test result for for Nitrite level for your re-testing of it. Before we get any further in the issue of your water hardness and pH as found in your aquarium, wait until you get the results of your base line tests of your tap water. As for black Tahitian sand, as far as I know this is just inert volcanic rock residue reduced to this fine state over the millenia. I don't believe calcium would be leached from live clams' shells, especial when your TDS 9iotal dissolved solids) are obviously high, although \\Steve// may possibly be able to shed further light on this. Getting to the "patient" of immediate concern, there is a hugh different between the condition of Bloat, as brought on by indigestion/swelling of the ingested dried foods within the gut and the manifestation of the condition known commonly as Dropsy -- which has a number of possible pathogenic causes (both viral and bacterial). The Pineconing effect you see is definitely the result of Dropsy, an internal infection that attacks the liver and kidney's, and what you're seeing is the aftereffect of the kidneys shutting down with the bodily build-up of fluids. I need to tell you that usually, when the condition reaches this stage, that it's most often quite difficult (if even at all possible) to reverse this at the stage it's at. You may give it a try though, and I'll yell you that whoever your local fish syore keeper is, he's a rare one as he recommended precisely what is required for treating Dropsey -- even though the hope of turning this around diminished greatly, beyond catching it early. Prescribing Epsom salt at that exact amount was right on the money, although if the fish continues to survive, this salt needs to be added again (in addition to what you've just added) at half the amount on the 3rd day of treatment. When you mentioned that you thought your fish store owber suggest a medication starting with an "M," I thought perhaps you were going to be given the Metronidazole that Donna recommended. I believe the choice of medication, of Maracyn II is an even better one in this case, even though I recognize that Donna has had good results with the previously suggested med. The Maracyn II (TwO) is in reality Minocycline, which would have been one of my choices, as it's one of the very few broad-spectrum antibiotics which are readily absorbable internally and one that has good potential in eradicating such an internal bacteria infection, although if the cause is viral there really isn't much hope. Additionally, in trying to treat for Dropsy, the best results are had when the temperature is raised to at least 86 o (I often recommend 90 o, as it's more effective, but not evetyone trusts that level). In your case though. unless you're using a good water conditioner that will convert any Free-Ammonia into Ammonium -- and most good ones will -- I'd have to recommend foregoing raising of the temperature only as a precaution. I might assume though, although I'd need confirmation, that you ARE using a good dechloraminator which will ensure the Free-Ammonia/Ammonium conversion -- in which case the temp should be raised (I just didn't want to tell you this without also telling you of the need to use a good water conditioner to control the Ammonia issue). I would still not give the treatment very much hope, as it seems advanced, but it's the best shot you'll get. Here's hoping for the best. Ray --- I@yahoogroups.com <mailto:I%40yahoogroups.com> , Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray thanks for responding. > The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the >person > > I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've > lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, one > > loan tetra and a pleco. > > As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the > Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not >done > > a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. > > I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a water > change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I should > > have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also the > tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the > whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. > > I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb to > every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb instead > > of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on the > > note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be > increasing my pH? I have black Tahitian sand as a substrate so don't know if > that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for >my > > pleco. > > I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. > Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was told > > I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is > Maracyn-Two. > > > I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is up > to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. > > Hopefully this answers a few things. > Jennifer > > > <snip>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49070	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/22/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Jennifer, Don't beat yourself up over the loss of this fish. It happens. It is said that the difference between a novice and an expert is in the cost of the fish killed. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues I have the 55 gallon tank the only problem that holds me back from setting it up is where to put it and a filter adequate enough for its size. Until both issues are accounted for I am stuck with the 45 gallon. I will do my water change tomorrow with a temp of 85 degree water, tap conditioner added and salt adjusted for a 40% change then I will add the second days medication to the water. When I went in to check on the boy after I had turned the lights off for a while he was sitting on the bottom, very sad. I think (maybe just hoping too hard) that his scales seem to be slightly less protruding, but he sure does look like he's not feeling well. I witnessed my opal gourami picking on him earlier which I was also afraid of and since the opal is the smallest of the gouramis in there and he's the largest size didn't help him much. I can only hope and watch. What a horrible lesson learned with bloodworms just makes me sad. On another note with the 55 gallon, I was thinking about getting a canister filter but don't know the first thing about them other than the Magnum Hot 250 hang on type I have on the 45 gallon. Any suggestions? Jennifer ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 8:58:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues It would be best to dp this PWC tomorrow, for one thing, to preserve the full effects of the medication until then. When you do make the water chance, if you do a 40% one, you will need to replace 2.8 Tablespoons of Epsom salt (make it an even 3 Tablespoons, since you didn't even add the full 9 Tablespoons at the start). Be sure to match the 85 o temperature you have it at now -- I would boost it just a bit more, too. Your Nitrate closer to 60 ppm souns much better. As I believe I mention, ideally it should be no more than 40 ppm. Many prefer to strive to keep it no more than 20 ppm and still others succeed in keeping it down to around 5 ppm although I suspect their tank(s) may be sparsely stocked. Will you still be getting the 55 gallon that you wrote about a while back? You fish store guy is one to appreciate as he's one of the remarkably few true aquarists who have an intimate knowledge of fish through years of actual experience with them. Learn all you can from him and don't disregard a thing he says; you're in a very unique situation -- one that you shouldn't dismiss. Of course, you may still inquire here whenever you like and we'll do out best in advising you. Yes, exactly, if you keep up with your water changes, and now keep tabs on all your other water parameters (now that you have your kits) making sure they are where they need to be, your somewhat higher pH will be of relatively little consequence and will not negatively impact your fishes. There are hobbyists on these forums who have pH levels higher than yours (like pH 8.5, for instance) and have learned to live with it, keeping their fishes happily alive also -- and I'm talking about ordinary community type fishes. That your naturally-acid-preferring Tetra is still doing well for you is proof-positive that pH is not the deciding factor in keeping fish alive. For you information, there are medications which will safely promote and ensure a fuller action against the pathogen they are being used against when taking into account the amount of incidental dead organic matter existing within the water column that often goes unnoticed when doing maintenance. For the reason that a portion many antibiotics can be absorbed by this organic matter (dead plant leaves, etc.) when overlooked, it is often practiced to factor in greater than normally recommended (or directed) amounts of these meds with the initial dosage. When any such organic matter is present, not to include a supplemental amount of meds in these cases can result in not providing them in the eventual full strength they were intended to work as. This practice cannot be done indiscriminately though, nor should meds be regularly overdosed, but many antibiotic treatments would benefit from the first dose having up to 150% of what's directed as "normal" on the packaging, The uninitiated should never take this upon their own though, as there are some medications that require nothing less than the exact dosage and never anything more. In this case, and since the case may be too advanced anyway to be able to reverse, a safe antibiotic such as Minocycline could be added to, to help ensure a turn around, without posing the least amount of risk. Naturally, an extensive experience with these various fish medications needs to be had first before being able to decide when any of them may at any time be able to be used in any additional amounts, but they can certainly help situations when that knowledge is gained. I'm wishing you luck on your Gourami's recovery; we can only be hopeful. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change tomorrow as > > I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I figure I'll do > > a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with salt. I did > raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The guy I got > > him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering but I'm still > > willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the medicine so > I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add water so that > shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite when I > redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water tomorrow I > can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that > information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after letting sit >for > > 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia seemed to be > > less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I provided the > numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than prescribed? > > Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had just added > > the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it tomorrow? > Jennifer > > P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 years of fish > > knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store including > Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe is if I >keep > > with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as much of a > factor. Thoughts? > > > > > -----------<snip>--------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49071	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Just a quick update before I go in this morning. He's still with us, but sitting on the bottom, which he seems to do as soon as I turn off the light, if I have the light on for any length of time he'll come and hang out closer to the top. His fins are noticably down but still he is large and seems to be out of balance. I HOPE this means he's getting better. I will be doing a water change and the changes of the medication as well when I get home this afternoon. Jen ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 11:28:42 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues Bloat and dropsy are two different problems. Bloat can be cured. Generally, dropsy cannot, unless caught and treated at a very early stage. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues I was told dropsy and bloat is the same thing, but the medication I picked up specifically targets Dropsy on the package. From what I've read bloat or dropsy is what he has. ________________________________ From: Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 2:36:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Tank Issues Jennifer - This could be dropsy - why don't you look up pictures of dropsy and see if it fits. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Aug 22, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > he looks like a pine cone [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49072	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Sorry Steve, I had never heard of any test readings changing after a 24 hour period in tap water except pH. Interesting. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 12:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Donna, We would like to see all the tests. The pH is a definite factor to see if it is level, or if it raises or lowers. In this case we need to know if we should be looking for another source of the rise in pH Jennifer has experienced. The ammonia tests will help us determine if she has chloramines in her water if the ammonia does not show on the first test but does show on the second and/or third tests. The nitrite test shows if there is the presence of nitrites in the water to start. The nitrate test is to show the presence of any nitrates. Though the EPA says a water supply should be less than 10 ppm, there are a lot of supplies that exceed that level still. This could contribute to her level of nitrates she has recently measured and will make it more difficult to lower that level. So, all the tests are important, and they should be done at the initial draw of the water, 24 hours later and then another 24 hours later for a group of three points. While the largest change will happen within the first 24 hours, they can continue for even longer than the 48 hours recommended for a baseline, but, by the end of 48 hours we should have a pretty good idea of what it going on. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues I think you only need to test the pH after having the tap water sit out in a bowl, not the other tests like ammonia and nitrate. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are tank water tests, not tap water tests. (Usually.) _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change tomorrow as I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I figure I'll do a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with salt. I did raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The guy I got him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering but I'm still willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the medicine so I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add water so that shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite when I redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water tomorrow I can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after letting sit for 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia seemed to be less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I provided the numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than prescribed? Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had just added the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it tomorrow? Jennifer P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 years of fish knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store including Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe is if I keep with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as much of a factor. Thoughts? ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 5:41:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Hi Jennifer, Okay, I see you lost a couple of fish since last time we exchanged messages. Still have the Angelfish and Gourami's, but only 6 of the 3-Spot-Type morphs. Noticed the lone Tetra keeps hanging in there, and the Pleco is still with you (they're fairly htrdy). Still a good number of fish for a 45 High. Alright, I thought you were going for liquid test kits, and so you did! Yes, I saw where you stated you may have messed up the tests. I'm glad to see you did them over -- and also see that your Nitrate is well up there, as suspected, although I didn't know it would be quite this high. The Nitrate level is not dangerous yet but is far from ideal -- and is no doubt due to your somewhat heavier bioload, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, your 30% to 40% weekly water changes are not enough. Until you get the 55 gallon set up and transfer some of these fish to it, I'd recommend you start making PWC's twice weekly to get your Nitrate down -- which should help in physically removing some of your excess Ammonia at the same time. Are you still planning on setting up thr 55? Ideally, your Nitrate should be no more than 40 ppm, although you may relax about this a bit as Nitrate is relatively harmless compared to the effects of Ammonia and Nitrate -- not that your Nitrate level is good, however. Of much more important concern is your Ammonia -- which I must draw your attention to immediately. Normally, a level of Total Ammonia of only 0.25 ppm is not especially harmful at lower pH levels (although still not the greatest to have at anywhere above Zero). As the pH increases, so will the harmful effects of Ammonia, as more of the Total Ammonia (Ammonium) will convert to Free-Ammonia -- which is not good. You need to please be aware that your present Total Ammonia level of 0.25 ppm will release enough Free-Ammonia to become toxic at a pH of 8.2 and become lethal at your pH 8.4 (unless you are using water conditioners such as Prime or Amquel Plus, which ill convert the Free-Ammonia back to harmless Ammonium. Your Ammonia level may have contributed to your receny fish deaths. At this same time, I notice you are missing the test result for for Nitrite level for your re-testing of it. Before we get any further in the issue of your water hardness and pH as found in your aquarium, wait until you get the results of your base line tests of your tap water. As for black Tahitian sand, as far as I know this is just inert volcanic rock residue reduced to this fine state over the millenia. I don't believe calcium would be leached from live clams' shells, especial when your TDS 9iotal dissolved solids) are obviously high, although \\Steve// may possibly be able to shed further light on this. Getting to the "patient" of immediate concern, there is a hugh different between the condition of Bloat, as brought on by indigestion/swelling of the ingested dried foods within the gut and the manifestation of the condition known commonly as Dropsy -- which has a number of possible pathogenic causes (both viral and bacterial). The Pineconing effect you see is definitely the result of Dropsy, an internal infection that attacks the liver and kidney's, and what you're seeing is the aftereffect of the kidneys shutting down with the bodily build-up of fluids. I need to tell you that usually, when the condition reaches this stage, that it's most often quite difficult (if even at all possible) to reverse this at the stage it's at. You may give it a try though, and I'll yell you that whoever your local fish syore keeper is, he's a rare one as he recommended precisely what is required for treating Dropsey -- even though the hope of turning this around diminished greatly, beyond catching it early. Prescribing Epsom salt at that exact amount was right on the money, although if the fish continues to survive, this salt needs to be added again (in addition to what you've just added) at half the amount on the 3rd day of treatment. When you mentioned that you thought your fish store owber suggest a medication starting with an "M," I thought perhaps you were going to be given the Metronidazole that Donna recommended. I believe the choice of medication, of Maracyn II is an even better one in this case, even though I recognize that Donna has had good results with the previously suggested med. The Maracyn II (TwO) is in reality Minocycline, which would have been one of my choices, as it's one of the very few broad-spectrum antibiotics which are readily absorbable internally and one that has good potential in eradicating such an internal bacteria infection, although if the cause is viral there really isn't much hope. Additionally, in trying to treat for Dropsy, the best results are had when the temperature is raised to at least 86 o (I often recommend 90 o, as it's more effective, but not evetyone trusts that level). In your case though. unless you're using a good water conditioner that will convert any Free-Ammonia into Ammonium -- and most good ones will -- I'd have to recommend foregoing raising of the temperature only as a precaution. I might assume though, although I'd need confirmation, that you ARE using a good dechloraminator which will ensure the Free-Ammonia/Ammonium conversion -- in which case the temp should be raised (I just didn't want to tell you this without also telling you of the need to use a good water conditioner to control the Ammonia issue). I would still not give the treatment very much hope, as it seems advanced, but it's the best shot you'll get. Here's hoping for the best. Ray --- I@yahoogroups.com <mailto:I%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:I%40yahoogroups.com> , Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray thanks for responding. > The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the >person > > I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've > lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, one > > loan tetra and a pleco. > > As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the > Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not >done > > a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. > > I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a water > change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I should > > have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also the > tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the > whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. > > I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb to > every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb instead > > of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on the > > note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be > increasing my pH? I have black Tahitian sand as a substrate so don't know if > that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for >my > > pleco. > > I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. > Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was told > > I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is > Maracyn-Two. > > > I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is up > to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. > > Hopefully this answers a few things. > Jennifer > > > <snip> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49073	From: Ray	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Jennifer, As \\Steve// has told you, don't beat yourself up over the loss of this fish but at the same time, don't also beat yourself up for feeding your fish bloodworms. As we have just explained, there is no connection between "Bloat" and "Dropsy," neither is there any connection between Bloodworms a Dropsy. While freeze-dried bloodworms can promote Bloat when improperly used, this condition has absolutely nothing to do with the pineconing effect of Dropsy. If, in the future, you may wish to use an excellent and very nutritious food without running the risk of Bloat, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better food than bloodworms -- but in the frozen form that you just thaw out before feeding. Some people are allergic to the secretions they give off though, and would develop a temporary itch on their hands (like between the fingers where the skin is thinner). You'd have to try a little first before deciding whether you'd have an allergy to them. The fish love them though -- most all fish. You could go back to the freeze dried ones however, but just soak them before feeding them to the fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > Jennifer, > > Don't beat yourself up over the loss of this fish. It happens. It is said that the difference between a novice and an expert is in the cost of the fish killed. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:16 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > I have the 55 gallon tank the only problem that holds me back from setting it up > is where to put it and a filter adequate enough for its size. Until both issues > are accounted for I am stuck with the 45 gallon. > > I will do my water change tomorrow with a temp of 85 degree water, tap > conditioner added and salt adjusted for a 40% change then I will add the second > days medication to the water. > > When I went in to check on the boy after I had turned the lights off for a while > he was sitting on the bottom, very sad. I think (maybe just hoping too hard) > that his scales seem to be slightly less protruding, but he sure does look like > he's not feeling well. I witnessed my opal gourami picking on him earlier which > I was also afraid of and since the opal is the smallest of the gouramis in there > and he's the largest size didn't help him much. I can only hope and watch. > What a horrible lesson learned with bloodworms just makes me sad. > > On another note with the 55 gallon, I was thinking about getting a canister > filter but don't know the first thing about them other than the Magnum Hot 250 > hang on type I have on the 45 gallon. Any suggestions? > Jennifer > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 8:58:50 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues > > > It would be best to dp this PWC tomorrow, for one thing, to preserve the full > effects of the medication until then. When you do make the water chance, if you > do a 40% one, you will need to replace 2.8 Tablespoons of Epsom salt (make it an > even 3 Tablespoons, since you didn't even add the full 9 Tablespoons at the > start). Be sure to match the 85 o temperature you have it at now -- I would > boost it just a bit more, too. Your Nitrate closer to 60 ppm souns much better. > As I believe I mention, ideally it should be no more than 40 ppm. Many prefer > to strive to keep it no more than 20 ppm and still others succeed in keeping it > down to around 5 ppm although I suspect their tank(s) may be sparsely stocked. > Will you still be getting the 55 gallon that you wrote about a while back? > > You fish store guy is one to appreciate as he's one of the remarkably few true > aquarists who have an intimate knowledge of fish through years of actual > experience with them. Learn all you can from him and don't disregard a thing he > says; you're in a very unique situation -- one that you shouldn't dismiss. Of > course, you may still inquire here whenever you like and we'll do out best in > advising you. > > > Yes, exactly, if you keep up with your water changes, and now keep tabs on all > your other water parameters (now that you have your kits) making sure they are > where they need to be, your somewhat higher pH will be of relatively little > consequence and will not negatively impact your fishes. There are hobbyists on > these forums who have pH levels higher than yours (like pH 8.5, for instance) > and have learned to live with it, keeping their fishes happily alive also -- and > I'm talking about ordinary community type fishes. That your > naturally-acid-preferring Tetra is still doing well for you is proof-positive > that pH is not the deciding factor in keeping fish alive. > > For you information, there are medications which will safely promote and ensure > a fuller action against the pathogen they are being used against when taking > into account the amount of incidental dead organic matter existing within the > water column that often goes unnoticed when doing maintenance. For the reason > that a portion many antibiotics can be absorbed by this organic matter (dead > plant leaves, etc.) when overlooked, it is often practiced to factor in greater > than normally recommended (or directed) amounts of these meds with the initial > dosage. When any such organic matter is present, not to include a supplemental > amount of meds in these cases can result in not providing them in the eventual > full strength they were intended to work as. This practice cannot be done > indiscriminately though, nor should meds be regularly overdosed, but many > antibiotic treatments would benefit from the first dose having up to 150% of > what's directed as "normal" on the packaging, The uninitiated should never take > this upon their own though, as there are some medications that require nothing > less than the exact dosage and never anything more. In this case, and since the > case may be too advanced anyway to be able to reverse, a safe antibiotic such as > Minocycline could be added to, to help ensure a turn around, without posing the > least amount of risk. Naturally, an extensive experience with these various > fish medications needs to be had first before being able to decide when any of > them may at any time be able to be used in any additional amounts, but they can > certainly help situations when that knowledge is gained. I'm wishing you luck > on your Gourami's recovery; we can only be hopeful. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@> wrote: > > > > Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change tomorrow as > > > > I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I figure I'll do > > > > a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with salt. I did > > > raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The guy I got > > > > him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering but I'm still > > > > willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the medicine so > > > I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add water so that > > > shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite when I > > redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water tomorrow I > > > can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that > > information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after letting sit > >for > > > > 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia seemed to be > > > > less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I provided the > > numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than prescribed? > > > > Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had just added > > > > the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it tomorrow? > > Jennifer > > > > P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 years of fish > > > > knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store including > > > Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe is if I > >keep > > > > with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as much of a > > > factor. Thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > -----------<snip>-------------------- >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49074	From: Ray	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish

Bill, Unless Clare has a "pair" of two females spawning together, as \\Steve// suggests as a possibility for all the eggs being infertile (unfertilized) -- as we know can happen -- you're undoubtedly precise when offering that the male's milt may have been washed away before it had a chance to contact the eggs. Since the eggs are receptive for only a brief period of time, after which no milt can enter, even as any of this milt may have circulated around again it could never fertilize the eggs after the fact. In illustration to what Clare suspects as her re-aquascaping of the tank causing interruption of the pair's spawning, it needs to be pointed out that the female does not lay all her eggs at one time -- with the male then fertilizing them all at once, which an interruption of his doing so would result in no fertile eggs. But instead, the female lays one row at a time with the male following her up immediately, fertilizing this one row. While a female may lay a row of eggs, and while a male may miss the opportunity to fertilize that row, and/or possibly several others, if he was prevented from doing so, it is highly unlikely that he would never get the chance to fertilize at least some eggs while he is taking turns with the female at the spawning site -- even while Clare is temporarily interfering with them. Then too, since it was not observed that they were spawning, and only realized that they had spawned after the lights were turned on, it's entirely possible that the eggs were laid -- with the male fully involved -- before the tank was even re-scaped. If there was enough commotion to prevent the male from participating, there would likely be enough commotion to prevent the female from laying eggs, at least during some of this time. This is to demonstrate that whenever the spawning took place, that his milt was prevented from reaching any eggs at any time during the spawning. If this filter intake tube was located anywhere in the vicinity of the filter's outflow, the male's milt will be washed away each and every time. It's a common problem since Angelfish prefer to use these tubes as spawning sites. Since community tanks are not the ideal environment for breeding Angelfish and rearing them, if you're serious about raising Angelfish, Clare, it would be good advice to follow Bill's suggestion of housing the pair in their own aquarium. From your messages, as you were obviously hoping for at least some of these eggs to hatch, it would appear to me that you might intend to pursue the breeding of them, and we're here for you if you need help; I wish you the best in the effort. Young healthy pairs such as yours can most often breed every 8 days, so while they may be doing their "spawning dance," you can expect they well may breed at that time (but not before), or shortly thereafter. Moving them may probably set them back a little, but not usually for long. Oh, almost missed his -- Your Peacock Eel is a fair size at 10" -- and they're CARNIVOROUS. If you start finding any of your smaller fish "mysteriously" disappearing, you'll know where they went -- to that big vacuum cleaner on the substrate! I'd advise trading that guy in for something more compatible, or get him his own tank if you really intend to keep him. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > With the angelfish laying the eggs on the filter stem, it might be that the water flow is too strong for the sperm to enter the eggs for proper fertilization. If you are wish to I have the angelfish have any viable eggs (as long as you have both a mature male and female) you might wish to transfer them to a smaller tank by themselves such as a 20 gallon (or larger ) tank. Use a sponge filter and do more water changes. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@> wrote: > > > > As Harry says, just monitor the condition of the fish for now. Any changes in the injured area other than improvement, should then be of concern. > > > > Next time you find eggs on the filter stem, or any other object in the aquarium that appear to be infertile or are fungusing, remove the object from the aquarium before cleaning. It will be easier on you and the fish. > > > > It may be that you have two females "breeding", or they may be just inexperienced enough not to get the eggs fertilized properly or not care for them properly. Sometimes it takes several tries for the fish to get it right. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish > > > > Hi, All: > > Need some advice - I have a pair of breeding angels in my 100G tall hex that laid their eggs on the filter intake pipe - i left them be until they all turned white (not viable and getting fuzzy) so I decided to scrape them off before they got too moldy. Well, the angels, needless to say, got angry and tho I tried very hard to keep them from harm by blocking my dull plastic scraper with my hand the larger one (female?) came underneath and rammed into it and now has a dent on the top of her head. > > My question is, should I just leave it and watch to see if it gets worse or should I immediately treat with Melafix? The other species in the tank are bloodfin tetras, iranian red rainbows, clown loaches, apistogrammas agassizii pair, electric blue and balloon rams, and a peacock eel (about 10 inches long). Last PWC was three days ago (NO2 O ppm, NO3 5 ppm, Ph 7.8, NH3/NH4 0 ppm) > > Photo uploaded and awaiting approval - Any advice is appreciated.....thanks. > > Clare > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49075	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Just got abroad...

Hi Ray Thanks for welcome note here. Looks like you have some insight on my old dreamy town. I prefer the country any time to the city or town however as I have more options getting my feet wet in the streams and jungles. Most of the LFSs are located in other areas, the area you mentioned are commercial zones. The only fishes one gonna find here are the ones destined for the table. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49076	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish

In this case, this is an Eheim Pro II canister filter with the intake pipe positioned in the tank about 8-10 inches away from the 12" outtake spray bar which diffuses the flow to the surface of the tank, not down into it. All of this is not as easy to take apart as an HOB, but next time I will definitely do it over the expediency method I chose this time, just for my poor angel's sake. Certainly, if I was looking to breed them and have viable fry your direction is exactly the one I would need to take, William :-) I prefer to just let "nature" take its course for the most part in my community tanks unless the egg material goes south and is in such volume as this was to make a moldy mess. This pair's naturally vigorous guarding behavior is also such that I may have to separate them because their tank mates could never get close enough to eat the eggs and this is just stressful for them as well as all in the tank who venture into their "territory". Have not yet decided what I want to do. It's a large tank and I have a little more time to think about it (I do have a planted 40G I could move one of them into). I am continuing to be way more concerned with the injury I inadvertently inflicted - it looks no worse today & I will post again if/when there are any changes. Any more suggestions on this problem would be appreciated. Thanks all for your input :-) As always the responses are interesting & helpful. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > With the angelfish laying the eggs on the filter stem, it might be that the water flow is too strong for the sperm to enter the eggs for proper fertilization. If you are wish to I have the angelfish have any viable eggs (as long as you have both a mature male and female) you might wish to transfer them to a smaller tank by themselves such as a 20 gallon (or larger ) tank. Use a sponge filter and do more water changes. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@> wrote: > > > > As Harry says, just monitor the condition of the fish for now. Any changes in the injured area other than improvement, should then be of concern. > > > > Next time you find eggs on the filter stem, or any other object in the aquarium that appear to be infertile or are fungusing, remove the object from the aquarium before cleaning. It will be easier on you and the fish. > > > > It may be that you have two females "breeding", or they may be just inexperienced enough not to get the eggs fertilized properly or not care for them properly. Sometimes it takes several tries for the fish to get it right. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish > > > > Hi, All: > > Need some advice - I have a pair of breeding angels in my 100G tall hex that laid their eggs on the filter intake pipe - i left them be until they all turned white (not viable and getting fuzzy) so I decided to scrape them off before they got too moldy. Well, the angels, needless to say, got angry and tho I tried very hard to keep them from harm by blocking my dull plastic scraper with my hand the larger one (female?) came underneath and rammed into it and now has a dent on the top of her head. > > My question is, should I just leave it and watch to see if it gets worse or should I immediately treat with Melafix? The other species in the tank are bloodfin tetras, iranian red rainbows, clown loaches, apistogrammas agassizii pair, electric blue and balloon rams, and a peacock eel (about 10 inches long). Last PWC was three days ago (NO2 O ppm, NO3 5 ppm, Ph 7.8, NH3/NH4 0 ppm) > > Photo uploaded and awaiting approval - Any advice is appreciated.....thanks. > > Clare > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49077	From: EM	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Tank Issues

Jennifer, With regard to canister filters, the one you are familiar with (Marineland Magnum 250) is rated at 250GPH by the Marineland, and is also rated by Marineland for use in aquariums up to 50 gal. It is also the only H.O.T. canister filter I've seen. There is also an upgraded 250, called the 250 pro that comes with a biowheel attachment. If you'd like to see a selection of canister filters with decent explanations, visit www.aqpumps.com and check out the canister filter category. There are canisters there from Eheim, Marineland, and Rena Filstar. ________________________________ Elliott [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49078	From: pickering	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: sick axolotl

Hi - appreciate any ideas/help... I have 2 albino axolotls,both about 1.5 years old. The male is chubby and active. The female is wasting away - won't eat even when I put diff things in front of her. She has no spots or fungus or wounds. Water conditions are great and I even added an air stone. First day that helped bring her fringes back to normal, but today they're shrunken again and no longer pink. Any ideas what this is and how I can help her? She's so bony and lethargic. Thanks, Joey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49079	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/23/2010
Subject: Re: Tank Issues

Donna, Usually the 48 hour tests are the same as the 24 hour tests, but, if there are chloramines in the water, the ammonia level may change for the worse. Pretty much the 48 hour test is just insurance and a backup for the 24 hour test. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Sorry Steve, I had never heard of any test readings changing after a 24 hour period in tap water except pH. Interesting. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 12:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Donna, We would like to see all the tests. The pH is a definite factor to see if it is level, or if it raises or lowers. In this case we need to know if we should be looking for another source of the rise in pH Jennifer has experienced. The ammonia tests will help us determine if she has chloramines in her water if the ammonia does not show on the first test but does show on the second and/or third tests. The nitrite test shows if there is the presence of nitrites in the water to start. The nitrate test is to show the presence of any nitrates. Though the EPA says a water supply should be less than 10 ppm, there are a lot of supplies that exceed that level still. This could contribute to her level of nitrates she has recently measured and will make it more difficult to lower that level. So, all the tests are important, and they should be done at the initial draw of the water, 24 hours later and then another 24 hours later for a group of three points. While the largest change will happen within the first 24 hours, they can continue for even longer than the 48 hours recommended for a baseline, but, by the end of 48 hours we should have a pretty good idea of what it going on. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues I think you only need to test the pH after having the tap water sit out in a bowl, not the other tests like ammonia and nitrate. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are tank water tests, not tap water tests. (Usually.) _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Well he's still hanging in there and I will be doing a water change tomorrow as I don't want to do it right on top of adding the medication so I figure I'll do a water change tomorrow and add the next round of meds along with salt. I did raise the temp from 80 to 85 in the tank hoping that would help. The guy I got him from suggests that I euthanize him as he's probably suffering but I'm still willing to try. He seems a bit more active since the salt and the medicine so I'm not sure. Yes I'm using a tap water declorinator when I add water so that shouldn't hurt to have raised the temp. I didn't retest the nitrite when I redid my levels but when I do my next round of testing on the water tomorrow I can provide everything. I will also do my base line and provide that information. I believe when I went back to check my tests after letting sit for 10 minutes plus they were closer to 60 then 80 ppm and the ammonia seemed to be less too so maybe I didn't let them stand long enough before I provided the numbers or will they slowly go down after sitting longer than prescribed? Do you think it better to do a water change tonight even after I had just added the medication mid day or should I go with my thought of doing it tomorrow? Jennifer P.S. and yes my fish guy at the store is wonderful he has over 30 years of fish knowledge and raises most of the fish that are provided to the store including Gouramis, angel fish, discus and many other varieties. His believe is if I keep with my water changes and all levels are in order the pH won't be as much of a factor. Thoughts? ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 5:41:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tank Issues Hi Jennifer, Okay, I see you lost a couple of fish since last time we exchanged messages. Still have the Angelfish and Gourami's, but only 6 of the 3-Spot-Type morphs. Noticed the lone Tetra keeps hanging in there, and the Pleco is still with you (they're fairly htrdy). Still a good number of fish for a 45 High. Alright, I thought you were going for liquid test kits, and so you did! Yes, I saw where you stated you may have messed up the tests. I'm glad to see you did them over -- and also see that your Nitrate is well up there, as suspected, although I didn't know it would be quite this high. The Nitrate level is not dangerous yet but is far from ideal -- and is no doubt due to your somewhat heavier bioload, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, your 30% to 40% weekly water changes are not enough. Until you get the 55 gallon set up and transfer some of these fish to it, I'd recommend you start making PWC's twice weekly to get your Nitrate down -- which should help in physically removing some of your excess Ammonia at the same time. Are you still planning on setting up thr 55? Ideally, your Nitrate should be no more than 40 ppm, although you may relax about this a bit as Nitrate is relatively harmless compared to the effects of Ammonia and Nitrate -- not that your Nitrate level is good, however. Of much more important concern is your Ammonia -- which I must draw your attention to immediately. Normally, a level of Total Ammonia of only 0.25 ppm is not especially harmful at lower pH levels (although still not the greatest to have at anywhere above Zero). As the pH increases, so will the harmful effects of Ammonia, as more of the Total Ammonia (Ammonium) will convert to Free-Ammonia -- which is not good. You need to please be aware that your present Total Ammonia level of 0.25 ppm will release enough Free-Ammonia to become toxic at a pH of 8.2 and become lethal at your pH 8.4 (unless you are using water conditioners such as Prime or Amquel Plus, which ill convert the Free-Ammonia back to harmless Ammonium. Your Ammonia level may have contributed to your receny fish deaths. At this same time, I notice you are missing the test result for for Nitrite level for your re-testing of it. Before we get any further in the issue of your water hardness and pH as found in your aquarium, wait until you get the results of your base line tests of your tap water. As for black Tahitian sand, as far as I know this is just inert volcanic rock residue reduced to this fine state over the millenia. I don't believe calcium would be leached from live clams' shells, especial when your TDS 9iotal dissolved solids) are obviously high, although \\Steve// may possibly be able to shed further light on this. Getting to the "patient" of immediate concern, there is a hugh different between the condition of Bloat, as brought on by indigestion/swelling of the ingested dried foods within the gut and the manifestation of the condition known commonly as Dropsy -- which has a number of possible pathogenic causes (both viral and bacterial). The Pineconing effect you see is definitely the result of Dropsy, an internal infection that attacks the liver and kidney's, and what you're seeing is the aftereffect of the kidneys shutting down with the bodily build-up of fluids. I need to tell you that usually, when the condition reaches this stage, that it's most often quite difficult (if even at all possible) to reverse this at the stage it's at. You may give it a try though, and I'll yell you that whoever your local fish syore keeper is, he's a rare one as he recommended precisely what is required for treating Dropsey -- even though the hope of turning this around diminished greatly, beyond catching it early. Prescribing Epsom salt at that exact amount was right on the money, although if the fish continues to survive, this salt needs to be added again (in addition to what you've just added) at half the amount on the 3rd day of treatment. When you mentioned that you thought your fish store owber suggest a medication starting with an "M," I thought perhaps you were going to be given the Metronidazole that Donna recommended. I believe the choice of medication, of Maracyn II is an even better one in this case, even though I recognize that Donna has had good results with the previously suggested med. The Maracyn II (TwO) is in reality Minocycline, which would have been one of my choices, as it's one of the very few broad-spectrum antibiotics which are readily absorbable internally and one that has good potential in eradicating such an internal bacteria infection, although if the cause is viral there really isn't much hope. Additionally, in trying to treat for Dropsy, the best results are had when the temperature is raised to at least 86 o (I often recommend 90 o, as it's more effective, but not evetyone trusts that level). In your case though. unless you're using a good water conditioner that will convert any Free-Ammonia into Ammonium -- and most good ones will -- I'd have to recommend foregoing raising of the temperature only as a precaution. I might assume though, although I'd need confirmation, that you ARE using a good dechloraminator which will ensure the Free-Ammonia/Ammonium conversion -- in which case the temp should be raised (I just didn't want to tell you this without also telling you of the need to use a good water conditioner to control the Ammonia issue). I would still not give the treatment very much hope, as it seems advanced, but it's the best shot you'll get. Here's hoping for the best. Ray --- I@yahoogroups.com <mailto:I%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:I%40yahoogroups.com> , Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray thanks for responding. > The test kit is a liquid test kit I bought on line suggested to me by the >person > > I got the gouramis from. My current total in the tank is as follows as I've > lost 2. 3 Angel fish, 6 different color morph gouramis and 2 thick lipped, one > > loan tetra and a pleco. > > As I stated on a previous post to someone else, I might have screwed up the > Nitrate test so I will be retesting for that specifically. I also have not >done > > a 48 base line test since I just found out how to do it appropriately. > > I normally do about 30-40% water changes every week, but I was due for a water > change since I do them every Sunday so it's been a week, so as you say I should > > have a value on my Nitrates. I will get that information back soon. Also the > tank is planted but I wouldn't say heavily in any sense of the word. For the > whole tank there are only 5 small plants in there. > > I added the epsom salts to the whole 45 gallon tank. I was told to do 1 Tb to > every 5 gallons but I went slighly on the lower side and went with 7 Tb instead > > of 9 Tb. I was told that adding it to the whole tank would be ok. Also on the > > note of the hardness I do have the golden clams in there could that be > increasing my pH? I have black Tahitian sand as a substrate so don't know if > that did anything and I do have a piece of driftwood in the water as well for >my > > pleco. > > I was afraid to remove him to a hospital tank that it might make him worse. > Since talking to you I've picked up medication to put in the water and was told > > I could add that along with the salt with no problem. The medication is > Maracyn-Two. > > > I just got done redoing my water, Nitrates 80ppm, ammonia .25 ppm and pH is up > to 8.4 with the added medication and salt. > > Hopefully this answers a few things. > Jennifer > > > <snip>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49080	From: Noura	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Warm water FW fish

Hi, Is there a hardy freshwater fish that can survive in a 93 F temperature? I offered my mom a "cycled" 6 G. And added 4 baby neon tetras, and 2 red baby zebra danios. I had the fish healthy in my 20G community tank for a couple of days before taking the 6 G to mom. Four days after taking the 6G to her, two Neons died suddenly. I went two days later and found the temperature (93). The Zebras looked surprisingly normal and active, the Neons.. well.. not so happy. I immediately took the surviving fish back to my home, surprised that there were any survivors in the first place! True fighters! By the way, they look active and healthy and gaining their bright colors back now after 18 hours of bringing them back here (84 - 86 F here). The 6 G is still running in my mom's house, with a few MT Snails that I added to keep it cycled, and with no possibility of taking it to a cooler place. So I'm waiting till Fall to give her the fish back, unless there's a fish that can survive the 93 temperature? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49081	From: Ray	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl

Joey, Tell us more about your water parameters, rather than the "Water conditions are great." How have you taken the tests for them, and just what did you come up with in numbers? Did you use liquid test kits or test strips? Axolotis are extremely sensitive to Nitrate build ups (and don't appreciate Ammonia or Nitrite, either). While the addition of an airstone will help ensure the maximum allowed oxygen content for your water's condition and temperature, it will have no effect on Nitrate contents. You may want to revisit water parameter testing, with liquid kits, and give us some values (even including the temperature) being ready to perform PWC's (partial water changes). BTW, a description of your aquarium maintenance regimen would be helpful to us, including the frequency and quantity of your PWC's. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pickering <hamsterinmypocket@...> wrote: > > Hi - appreciate any ideas/help... > > I have 2 albino axolotls,both about 1.5 years old. The male is chubby and > active. The female is wasting away - won't eat even when I put diff things > in front of her. She has no spots or fungus or wounds. Water conditions are > great and I even added an air stone. First day that helped bring her fringes > back to normal, but today they're shrunken again and no longer pink. Any > ideas what this is and how I can help her? She's so bony and lethargic. > > Thanks, > Joey > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49082	From: Ray	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Noura, There are very few freshwater fish that can survive temperatures much over 92 o, for too long of a time, let along being maintained indefinitely at 93 o. Discus will fare better at the higher temperatures, as will some Anabantids, and while there are other tropicals that will endure (survive) 93 o for shorter periods -- Clown Loaches being a typical example -- you are pushing or exceeding most fishes upper limits of their requirements when expecting them to survive at such extremes. It does not surprise me in the least that two of your Neons died, but I'm very amazed that even two Neons made it through the ordeal. Most of our Characins (Tetras included) are "cooler water" tropicals, most often doing better in the lower 70's. Neons' temperature range is from 68 o to 80 o -- but to show you their preferred needs -- they breed between 72 o and 76 o. While they're "tropicals," they come from the headwaters of tha Amazon River and its tributaries -- much closer to the rivers' source high in the Andes Mountains than many other tropical fishes of the same river much further east in the middle of the Mato Grosso rain forest. Tetras, as a whole, do not enjoy very high temperatures but will endure the 86 o temperature you keeping them at, at home, and at what we treat them at for up to about 14 days when they contract Ich. Many of them have preferred temperature ranges between 68 o to 82 o, with some still doing well from 65 o - 66 o to as high as 84 o - 85 o, but they're much fewer. A good number of Tetra species breed at around 74 o, so this should give you some idea of what they prefer most. The low nd high numbers are the recognized extremes of their range and are not meant for them to be kept at those temperatures for extended lengths of time since it will stress them and impact their health. The Zebra Danio's, on the other hand, are one of the few tropicals that will take 93 o (and higher) in stride, although generally any of the man-made morphs of any species do not have quite the vitality as do the wild-type of the species. As stated by Dr William T. Innes, the Zebra Danio has a temperature range of from 60 o to 110 o -- but as with any other species, unless their extremes are met slowly, a more rapid exposure to 60 o for Zebras will induce enough stress to the fish that it will be prone to contracting the previously mentioned Ich. Too, as your Red Zebra Danio's are a variety developed in the aquarium, they may not be able to take 110 o, but should do much better at 93 o than most other species. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Is there a hardy freshwater fish that can survive in a 93 F temperature? > > > > I offered my mom a "cycled" 6 G. And added 4 baby neon tetras, and 2 red > baby zebra danios. I had the fish healthy in my 20G community tank for a > couple of days before taking the 6 G to mom. > > Four days after taking the 6G to her, two Neons died suddenly. I went two > days later and found the temperature (93). The Zebras looked surprisingly > normal and active, the Neons.. well.. not so happy. > > > > I immediately took the surviving fish back to my home, surprised that there > were any survivors in the first place! True fighters! > > By the way, they look active and healthy and gaining their bright colors > back now after 18 hours of bringing them back here (84 - 86 F here). > > > > The 6 G is still running in my mom's house, with a few MT Snails that I > added to keep it cycled, and with no possibility of taking it to a cooler > place. So I'm waiting till Fall to give her the fish back, unless there's a > fish that can survive the 93 temperature? > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49083	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: injured Angel Fish

Gentlemen: As always, thanks for the detailed responses :-) You are all veritable founts of information and that is why I come here...... Just to clarify: I have no interest in seriously breeding the angelfish - viable fry to raise and sell is not my goal. If the angel fish breed in my community tank without too much trouble then the extra nutrition they provide for their tank mates is a bonus to their beauty. I also give the inhabitants of this tank all the extra guppy fry from my other tank as well and it is a delectable treat. Regarding my peacock eel - I understand his carnivorous nature & have yet to miss any of the smaller tetras or rams. I keep him well fed with lots of fresh worms :-) I have uploaded a photo of him and new pic of the injured angelfish in the original folder. The angel fish is already looking better and there seems to be a small patch of pigment coming back and it does not look as raw. Good news all around so far :-) Anyway, thanks for all your input. Looking forward to any new comments or suggestions you may have to offer. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, Unless Clare has a "pair" of two females spawning together, as \\Steve// suggests as a possibility for all the eggs being infertile (unfertilized) -- as we know can happen -- you're undoubtedly precise when offering that the male's milt may have been washed away before it had a chance to contact the eggs. Since the eggs are receptive for only a brief period of time, after which no milt can enter, even as any of this milt may have circulated around again it could never fertilize the eggs after the fact. > > In illustration to what Clare suspects as her re-aquascaping of the tank causing interruption of the pair's spawning, it needs to be pointed out that the female does not lay all her eggs at one time -- with the male then fertilizing them all at once, which an interruption of his doing so would result in no fertile eggs. But instead, the female lays one row at a time with the male following her up immediately, fertilizing this one row. While a female may lay a row of eggs, and while a male may miss the opportunity to fertilize that row, and/or possibly several others, if he was prevented from doing so, it is highly unlikely that he would never get the chance to fertilize at least some eggs while he is taking turns with the female at the spawning site -- even while Clare is temporarily interfering with them. > > Then too, since it was not observed that they were spawning, and only realized that they had spawned after the lights were turned on, it's entirely possible that the eggs were laid -- with the male fully involved -- before the tank was even re-scaped. If there was enough commotion to prevent the male from participating, there would likely be enough commotion to prevent the female from laying eggs, at least during some of this time. This is to demonstrate that whenever the spawning took place, that his milt was prevented from reaching any eggs at any time during the spawning. If this filter intake tube was located anywhere in the vicinity of the filter's outflow, the male's milt will be washed away each and every time. It's a common problem since Angelfish prefer to use these tubes as spawning sites. > > Since community tanks are not the ideal environment for breeding Angelfish and rearing them, if you're serious about raising Angelfish, Clare, it would be good advice to follow Bill's suggestion of housing the pair in their own aquarium. From your messages, as you were obviously hoping for at least some of these eggs to hatch, it would appear to me that you might intend to pursue the breeding of them, and we're here for you if you need help; I wish you the best in the effort. Young healthy pairs such as yours can most often breed every 8 days, so while they may be doing their "spawning dance," you can expect they well may breed at that time (but not before), or shortly thereafter. Moving them may probably set them back a little, but not usually for long. > > Oh, almost missed his -- Your Peacock Eel is a fair size at 10" -- and they're CARNIVOROUS. If you start finding any of your smaller fish "mysteriously" disappearing, you'll know where they went -- to that big vacuum cleaner on the substrate! I'd advise trading that guy in for something more compatible, or get him his own tank if you really intend to keep him. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@> wrote: > > > > With the angelfish laying the eggs on the filter stem, it might be that the water flow is too strong for the sperm to enter the eggs for proper fertilization. If you are wish to I have the angelfish have any viable eggs (as long as you have both a mature male and female) you might wish to transfer them to a smaller tank by themselves such as a 20 gallon (or larger ) tank. Use a sponge filter and do more water changes. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > As Harry says, just monitor the condition of the fish for now. Any changes in the injured area other than improvement, should then be of concern. > > > > > > Next time you find eggs on the filter stem, or any other object in the aquarium that appear to be infertile or are fungusing, remove the object from the aquarium before cleaning. It will be easier on you and the fish. > > > > > > It may be that you have two females "breeding", or they may be just inexperienced enough not to get the eggs fertilized properly or not care for them properly. Sometimes it takes several tries for the fish to get it right. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady > > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] injured Angel Fish > > > > > > Hi, All: > > > Need some advice - I have a pair of breeding angels in my 100G tall hex that laid their eggs on the filter intake pipe - i left them be until they all turned white (not viable and getting fuzzy) so I decided to scrape them off before they got too moldy. Well, the angels, needless to say, got angry and tho I tried very hard to keep them from harm by blocking my dull plastic scraper with my hand the larger one (female?) came underneath and rammed into it and now has a dent on the top of her head. > > > My question is, should I just leave it and watch to see if it gets worse or should I immediately treat with Melafix? The other species in the tank are bloodfin tetras, iranian red rainbows, clown loaches, apistogrammas agassizii pair, electric blue and balloon rams, and a peacock eel (about 10 inches long). Last PWC was three days ago (NO2 O ppm, NO3 5 ppm, Ph 7.8, NH3/NH4 0 ppm) > > > Photo uploaded and awaiting approval - Any advice is appreciated.....thanks. > > > Clare > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49084	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl

How big of an aquarium are they in? How long have they been together? Have you tried separating them to see if there is a change? Axolotls, especially as adults, tend to be solitary for most part. They also have the ability to be quite aggressive towards each other and are known to be cannibalistic. You may not see any obvious aggression between them, but they do bully each other and that can lead to the type of situation you are describing. When one is intimidated by another, they don't even bother to try to eat or do much of anything else anymore. Be sure they have plenty of territory away from each other, plenty to divide up the tank, such as plants and rock work, etc. What foods have you offered? And... how often are you doing water changes? How much at a time? I am wondering how long you have had the female and if you are positive it is female? Do you know where it came from? Axolotls can also carry internal parasites, especially those that are wild caught. Medications are difficult because they are so sensitive to everything and absorb through the skin, very much the same way frogs and salamanders do. More information would be very helpful. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pickering <hamsterinmypocket@...> wrote: > > Hi - appreciate any ideas/help... > > I have 2 albino axolotls,both about 1.5 years old. The male is chubby and > active. The female is wasting away - won't eat even when I put diff things > in front of her. She has no spots or fungus or wounds. Water conditions are > great and I even added an air stone. First day that helped bring her fringes > back to normal, but today they're shrunken again and no longer pink. Any > ideas what this is and how I can help her? She's so bony and lethargic. > > Thanks, > Joey > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49085	From: harry perry	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl/Ray /Joey

My Daughter has an axolotl. Was doing great for a few years and then took sick. I got involved. One axolotl in a 20 gal. tank "the water looks really clean dad". The water looks really clean so why do water changes?. I tested the water first. The nitrates were off the chart. We did a 50% water change cleaned the gravel well and within a day he was back to his old self stuffing night  crawlers as usual. This tank had been running for over two years. I suspect water changes weren't being done regularly because the water always looked so clean. The nitrates had been building over time. Something you folks might want to look into. Harry --- On Tue, 8/24/10, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: sick axolotl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 7:25 AM   Joey, Tell us more about your water parameters, rather than the "Water conditions are great." How have you taken the tests for them, and just what did you come up with in numbers? Did you use liquid test kits or test strips? Axolotis are extremely sensitive to Nitrate build ups (and don't appreciate Ammonia or Nitrite, either). While the addition of an airstone will help ensure the maximum allowed oxygen content for your water's condition and temperature, it will have no effect on Nitrate contents. You may want to revisit water parameter testing, with liquid kits, and give us some values (even including the temperature) being ready to perform PWC's (partial water changes). BTW, a description of your aquarium maintenance regimen would be helpful to us, including the frequency and quantity of your PWC's. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pickering <hamsterinmypocket@...> wrote: > > Hi - appreciate any ideas/help... > > I have 2 albino axolotls,both about 1.5 years old. The male is chubby and > active. The female is wasting away - won't eat even when I put diff things > in front of her. She has no spots or fungus or wounds. Water conditions are > great and I even added an air stone. First day that helped bring her fringes > back to normal, but today they're shrunken again and no longer pink. Any > ideas what this is and how I can help her? She's so bony and lethargic. > > Thanks, > Joey > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49086	From: dogear1973	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl

They're in a 40gal tank, larger sized gravel, live plants, a few hiding places and some large stones they seem to like to rest on. I have a waterfall type filter that works great (from the others I've had ayway). It has an adjustment so the flow isn't too hard. Added an an air stone about a week ago. I do 1/2 water changes every 2 weeks, but water tends to evaporate since there's no lid on the tank - so I'm often adding a few inches before the change. I'm careful not to clean all the "good bacteria" off the filter parts when I do a more major cleaning of the tank. When I do that, it's the suction/vacuum tube every month but there's not much that comes up. Amonia levels are stable; I check with a dipstick test and I have a gadget on the glass that also gives a reading. Nitrates are controlled by adding a liquid supplement the week in between the partial water changes (or when it seems stinky in there. Food: frozen blood worms, frozen brine shrimp. Just ordered some sinking aquatic carnivore pellets to see if that will entice it. I got them from a reptile breeder a few towns over. He sexed them for me at purchase. One definitely has the "bump" on its underside, the other does not. I've had them about a year and a half - they were together at the breeder and still are. I'm curious because if it was the water, food, etc., then why is only one sick? And if it's aggression, I sure haven't seen any. No limbs or toes are missing. They tend to do their own thing... the larger one loves to "surf" in the filter current across the tank over and over all frisky like. The sick/smaller one stays around the bottom or near the big stones. I give food directly to the skinny one while the other is off foraging, but it still ignores it. Crossing my fingers.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > How big of an aquarium are they in? How long have they been together? Have you tried separating them to see if there is a change? Axolotls, especially as adults, tend to be solitary for most part. They also have the ability to be quite aggressive towards each other and are known to be cannibalistic. You may not see any obvious aggression between them, but they do bully each other and that can lead to the type of situation you are describing. When one is intimidated by another, they don't even bother to try to eat or do much of anything else anymore. > > Be sure they have plenty of territory away from each other, plenty to divide up the tank, such as plants and rock work, etc. What foods have you offered? And... how often are you doing water changes? How much at a time? > > I am wondering how long you have had the female and if you are positive it is female? Do you know where it came from? Axolotls can also carry internal parasites, especially those that are wild caught. Medications are difficult because they are so sensitive to everything and absorb through the skin, very much the same way frogs and salamanders do. > > More information would be very helpful. > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pickering <hamsterinmypocket@> wrote: > > > > Hi - appreciate any ideas/help... > > > > I have 2 albino axolotls,both about 1.5 years old. The male is chubby and > > active. The female is wasting away - won't eat even when I put diff things > > in front of her. She has no spots or fungus or wounds. Water conditions are > > great and I even added an air stone. First day that helped bring her fringes > > back to normal, but today they're shrunken again and no longer pink. Any > > ideas what this is and how I can help her? She's so bony and lethargic. > > > > Thanks, > > Joey > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49087	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 8/24/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl

What is this liquid supplement you are adding? Generally speaking adding anything except water conditioner during water changes and medications (when needed) can typically be a bad thing. Most of these gimmicks that the fish/pet stores sell are not worth buying, and a lot of times they can actually harm/kill your fish tank inhabitants. Can you give us the name of this supplement so we know if it's safe or not? Thanks, Amber dogear1973 wrote: > > > They're in a 40gal tank, larger sized gravel, live plants, a few > hiding places and some large stones they seem to like to rest on. I > have a waterfall type filter that works great (from the others I've > had ayway). It has an adjustment so the flow isn't too hard. Added an > an air stone about a week ago. I do 1/2 water changes every 2 weeks, > but water tends to evaporate since there's no lid on the tank - so I'm > often adding a few inches before the change. I'm careful not to clean > all the "good bacteria" off the filter parts when I do a more major > cleaning of the tank. When I do that, it's the suction/vacuum tube > every month but there's not much that comes up. > > Amonia levels are stable; I check with a dipstick test and I have a > gadget on the glass that also gives a reading. Nitrates are controlled > by adding a liquid supplement the week in between the partial water > changes (or when it seems stinky in there. > > Food: frozen blood worms, frozen brine shrimp. Just ordered some > sinking aquatic carnivore pellets to see if that will entice it. > > I got them from a reptile breeder a few towns over. He sexed them for > me at purchase. One definitely has the "bump" on its underside, the > other does not. I've had them about a year and a half - they were > together at the breeder and still are. > > I'm curious because if it was the water, food, etc., then why is only > one sick? And if it's aggression, I sure haven't seen any. No limbs or > toes are missing. They tend to do their own thing... the larger one > loves to "surf" in the filter current across the tank over and over > all frisky like. The sick/smaller one stays around the bottom or near > the big stones. I give food directly to the skinny one while the other > is off foraging, but it still ignores it. > > Crossing my fingers.... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > > How big of an aquarium are they in? How long have they been > together? Have you tried separating them to see if there is a change? > Axolotls, especially as adults, tend to be solitary for most part. > They also have the ability to be quite aggressive towards each other > and are known to be cannibalistic. You may not see any obvious > aggression between them, but they do bully each other and that can > lead to the type of situation you are describing. When one is > intimidated by another, they don't even bother to try to eat or do > much of anything else anymore. > > > > Be sure they have plenty of territory away from each other, plenty > to divide up the tank, such as plants and rock work, etc. What foods > have you offered? And... how often are you doing water changes? How > much at a time? > > > > I am wondering how long you have had the female and if you are > positive it is female? Do you know where it came from? Axolotls can > also carry internal parasites, especially those that are wild caught. > Medications are difficult because they are so sensitive to everything > and absorb through the skin, very much the same way frogs and > salamanders do. > > > > More information would be very helpful. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, pickering <hamsterinmypocket@> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi - appreciate any ideas/help... > > > > > > I have 2 albino axolotls,both about 1.5 years old. The male is > chubby and > > > active. The female is wasting away - won't eat even when I put > diff things > > > in front of her. She has no spots or fungus or wounds. Water > conditions are > > > great and I even added an air stone. First day that helped bring > her fringes > > > back to normal, but today they're shrunken again and no longer > pink. Any > > > ideas what this is and how I can help her? She's so bony and > lethargic. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joey > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49088	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

93˚ F? Woh... that's about 34˚C, very warm water. What area is your Mother's living in? Just a general area only. No need to be specific about location. I know of some very tough fishes but so far have never found any living fishes in the wild in this temperature range. Regards Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49089	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Ray While it's true that many tropical fishes may endure such temperatures for short durations, most of them do not endure this situation unless they are trapped in a exposed pool and were not able to escape until the next tide or rains. I have collected Channa(s) from such pools and most of them suffer ulcers and burns. Maybe there might be a specie living in the waters of 'Old Faithful'. I'm also curious here... am planning to investigate a few hot springs around my area and find out if there fishes naturally inhabiting these warm waters. Eldred [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49090	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl

Joey, To start with, you should be testing not only for Ammonia, but also for Nitrite and Nitrate. Nitrate is entirely different than Ammonia, even though one is eventually the product of the other after it's first broken down into Nitrite. I'm still at a loss as to what you mean by your Ammonia levels being stable. Ideally, they should be non-existent. Your comment here would lead me to believe that you have an Ammonia level (of yet undetermined ppm) which is being kept constant. As I've already indicated in my previous post, your water parameter tests should be done with liquid test kits. Your dry dip test strips are notoriously inaccurate much of the time, and cannot be relied upon to give you correct results. I would highly recommend you get liquid tests for at least all 3 of the organic waste parameters discussed above, and for pH as well -- all being included at a much better price as one convenient master kit. I would also not rely on your "gadget on the glass" for giving you accurate Ammonia readings. As far as I'm aware, there is no magical liquid supplement that controls Nitrate. Just as Amber asks, could you please supply us the name of this extraordinary elixir of aquatic life? I've never seen any such product at my suppliers, nor do any of the nationally known on-line retailers (such as Drs Foster & Smith, That Fish Place or Big Al's) handle such a supplement. It is universally know that, aside from live aquatic plants consuming an amount of Nitrate, it needs to be physically removed via partial water changes. If there are times when the water "seems stinky in there," why don't you also change water then even if you feel there's nothing wrong with it when going by your one parameter test? Your nose should tell you that the stink is reason enough to realize that your water is much less than pristine. You need to definitely start doing more water changes, even as Harry is getting at -- at least EVERY WEEK -- and I don't need to hesitate on the recommendation o first know what your Nitrate level would be as it's obviously elevated. You do though, NEED to test for ALL your parameters, including your Nitrate, to be able to conclude how much and how frequently you do need to change out water to keep your organic waste levels at a mimimum. One may only be sick because as Dawn suggests, there may be an aggression issue going on in addition to poor water conditions. An animal does not need to have the outward manifestation of being physically wounded to be stressed by aggression or harassment. While there may not be any behavior that you may be able to observe, this does not mean that the male has not already shown his dominance over the female -- and may be just why the female stays around the bottom or near the big stones, despite the fact that she just may refer to have the full range of the tank but is being restricted. So, aggression and/or dominance can't be entirely ruled out as part of this scenario, even though much points to your water conditions as being the major portion of the problem. With many environmental issues causing the deaths of individual organism, unless the situation is toxic or otherwise somehow out of the range of existence for a species, most situations not entirely suited for the continuance of life will see that the animals in a given surroundings dying off one by one, or only a few at a time, rather than all at once. This is reported most often on the forum, in the aquarium, when more conventional fishes start dying off for some yet unknown reason when our members are seeking an answer and help for a solution. It may have been that your female was inherently weaker than the male to begin with, and may be the reason she is feeling the adverse effects of the poorer water conditions sooner. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dogear1973" <hamsterinmypocket@...> wrote: > > > They're in a 40gal tank, larger sized gravel, live plants, a few hiding places and some large stones they seem to like to rest on. I have a waterfall type filter that works great (from the others I've had anyway). It has an adjustment so the flow isn't too hard. Added an an air stone about a week ago. I do 1/2 water changes every 2 weeks, but water tends to evaporate since there's no lid on the tank - so I'm often adding a few inches before the change. I'm careful not to clean all the "good bacteria" off the filter parts when I do a more major cleaning of the tank. When I do that, it's the suction/vacuum tube every month but there's not much that comes up. > > Ammonia levels are stable; I check with a dipstick test and I have a gadget on the glass that also gives a reading. Nitrates are controlled by adding a liquid supplement the week in between the partial water changes (or when it seems stinky in there. > > Food: frozen blood worms, frozen brine shrimp. Just ordered some sinking aquatic carnivore pellets to see if that will entice it. > > I got them from a reptile breeder a few towns over. He sexed them for me at purchase. One definitely has the "bump" on its underside, the other does not. I've had them about a year and a half - they were together at the breeder and still are. > > I'm curious because if it was the water, food, etc., then why is only one sick? And if it's aggression, I sure haven't seen any. No limbs or toes are missing. They tend to do their own thing... the larger one loves to "surf" in the filter current across the tank over and over all frisky like. The sick/smaller one stays around the bottom or near the big stones. I give food directly to the skinny one while the other is off foraging, but it still ignores it. > > > Crossing my fingers.... > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > How big of an aquarium are they in? How long have they been together? Have you tried separating them to see if there is a change? Axolotls, especially as adults, tend to be solitary for most part. They also have the ability to be quite aggressive towards each other and are known to be cannibalistic. You may not see any obvious aggression between them, but they do bully each other and that can lead to the type of situation you are describing. When one is intimidated by another, they don't even bother to try to eat or do much of anything else anymore. > > > > Be sure they have plenty of territory away from each other, plenty to divide up the tank, such as plants and rock work, etc. What foods have you offered? And... how often are you doing water changes? How much at a time? > > > > I am wondering how long you have had the female and if you are positive it is female? Do you know where it came from? Axolotls can also carry internal parasites, especially those that are wild caught. Medications are difficult because they are so sensitive to everything and absorb through the skin, very much the same way frogs and salamanders do. > > > > More information would be very helpful. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, pickering <hamsterinmypocket@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi - appreciate any ideas/help... > > > > > > I have 2 albino axolotls,both about 1.5 years old. The male is chubby and > > > active. The female is wasting away - won't eat even when I put diff things > > > in front of her. She has no spots or fungus or wounds. Water conditions are > > > great and I even added an air stone. First day that helped bring her fringes > > > back to normal, but today they're shrunken again and no longer pink. Any > > > ideas what this is and how I can help her? She's so bony and lethargic. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joey > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49091	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Eldred, Yes, I totally agree. As these higher temperatures may be well beyond a fish's natural temperature range, it shows that this fish has obviously not evolved in such a high degree of heat as part of its natural environment -- at least not for extended lengths of time -- even though it may be able to endure shorter periods of these excesses either as their environment heats up temporarily beyond its normal range, or when a smaller portion of the fish's natural environment becomes separated while the fish is still within it, and the temperature has a much greater opportunity for heating up in this much smaller/separated portion of water column. It's evidenced that Anabantids have evolved being frequently confined at least temporarily in smaller bodies of water as their natural environment, to have developed their auxiliary method of obtaining oxygen when the water they've continually grown out in over a multitude of generations as they evolved constantly fluctuated in temperature, often reaching higher temperatures as the fish's normal surroundings. Other fishes not having evolved in such frequent conditions of being confined to just smaller portions of their environment, subject to being heated up to temperatures considerably higher than the rest of their surroundings can only endure these conditions for a considerably shorter, finite period of time. The longer these fishes are exposed to these abnormal conditions, the greater the possibility for stress-induced health issues to afflict them -- eventually leading to their deaths unless sufficient rains come, freeing the trapped fish as the water rises once more. BTW, I took it upon myself to correct an typo I noticed in your message (not that I don't make any myself < g >), changing "specie" to species as the singular of species is still "species." While on the subject of hot environments for fishes (and other aquatic organisms) though, it's really amazing how anything can survive in an environment surrounding those deep ocean "chimney's" that spew out boiling hot water heated by the molten lava beneath the ocean floor's crust. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> wrote: > > > Hi Ray > While it's true that many tropical fishes may endure such temperatures for short durations, most of them do not endure this situation unless they are trapped in a exposed pool and were not able to escape until the next tide or rains. I have collected Channa(s) from such pools and most of them suffer ulcers and burns. > Maybe there might be a species living in the waters of 'Old Faithful'. I'm also curious here... am planning to investigate a few hot springs around my area and find out if there fishes naturally inhabiting these warm waters. > > Eldred > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49092	From: Noura	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Thanks a lot Ray. I conclude that although the Zebra Danios looked fine, I'd rather keep them for one month in my cooler tanks, till the heat wave is gone. All the facts you mentioned about them seem perfectly true according to my observation. This specie survived two years so far in my (80 - 86 o) tanks. As for the Discus, I wouldn't dare to buy them for me, regardless of buying them for my VERY beginner aquarist - Mom! Besides, it's only a 6G, no discus will forgive me for putting them in there. Lol The tank will have to run for the MTSs for now. Thanks Noura <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/49082;_ylc=X3oDMTJydWhrdW JkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzQ5MD gyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyODI3MzU3MzY-> Re: Warm water FW fish Posted by: "Ray" <mailto:sevenspringss@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Warm%20water%20FW%20f ish> sevenspringss@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/sevenspringss> sevenspringss Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:37 am (PDT) Hi Noura, There are very few freshwater fish that can survive temperatures much over 92 o, for too long of a time, let along being maintained indefinitely at 93 o. Discus will fare better at the higher temperatures, as will some Anabantids, and while there are other tropicals that will endure (survive) 93 o for shorter periods -- Clown Loaches being a typical example -- you are pushing or exceeding most fishes upper limits of their requirements when expecting them to survive at such extremes. It does not surprise me in the least that two of your Neons died, but I'm very amazed that even two Neons made it through the ordeal. Most of our Characins (Tetras included) are "cooler water" tropicals, most often doing better in the lower 70's. Neons' temperature range is from 68 o to 80 o -- but to show you their preferred needs -- they breed between 72 o and 76 o. While they're "tropicals," they come from the headwaters of tha Amazon River and its tributaries -- much closer to the rivers' source high in the Andes Mountains than many other tropical fishes of the same river much further east in the middle of the Mato Grosso rain forest. Tetras, as a whole, do not enjoy very high temperatures but will endure the 86 o temperature you keeping them at, at home, and at what we treat them at for up to about 14 days when they contract Ich. Many of them have preferred temperature ranges between 68 o to 82 o, with some still doing well from 65 o - 66 o to as high as 84 o - 85 o, but they're much fewer. A good number of Tetra species breed at around 74 o, so this should give you some idea of what they prefer most. The low nd high numbers are the recognized extremes of their range and are not meant for them to be kept at those temperatures for extended lengths of time since it will stress them and impact their health. The Zebra Danio's, on the other hand, are one of the few tropicals that will take 93 o (and higher) in stride, although generally any of the man-made morphs of any species do not have quite the vitality as do the wild-type of the species. As stated by Dr William T. Innes, the Zebra Danio has a temperature range of from 60 o to 110 o -- but as with any other species, unless their extremes are met slowly, a more rapid exposure to 60 o for Zebras will induce enough stress to the fish that it will be prone to contracting the previously mentioned Ich. Too, as your Red Zebra Danio's are a variety developed in the aquarium, they may not be able to take 110 o, but should do much better at 93 o than most other species. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49093	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl

Ammonia levels are "stable"? I'm not sure what that means. ANY amount of ammonia is toxic to the animals. Nitrates are "controlled"? That also doesn't tell us much of anything. Can you please post numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH? Can you please also post the water temp in the tank? The stick tests are very unreliable as they mostly offer inaccurate results. Inaccurate results can mean the difference between life and death for your animals. Can you please get the water tested for the 4 tests requested, using a liquid test kit and post exact numbers? Without those numbers there isn't a whole lot anyone can really advise you to do... even if one of your axolotls is sick, medications can't be suggested safely unless we know those numbers, as many medications can have undesirable/toxic effects if added to poor water quality. From what you have posted thus far, it sounds as if water quality is a large part of the problem. Can you post a photo of your tank set up? Seeing how territory is divided, getting a clear shot of the sick animal, etc. can often lend answers, especially for a trained eye who knows what to look for. I also agree with Amber, we need to know what chemicals you are adding to the tank.... all chemicals you are putting in there should be listed. When working with amphibians it is important to remember that everything you add to their water is absorbed through their skin. Many of those chemicals are toxic to amphibians and can be easily overdosed beyond what they can handle. Also, chemicals are not a replacement for water changes. If the water is polluted enough to give off a bad odor, then a water change is surely needed. Think of it in these terms... if you use your toilet every day and don't flush it, when it begins to smell, do you just add chemicals to make it "clean" until you are ready to clean it a week later? Common sense would dictate that you flush the toilet... the same thing applies to your aquarium. It could very well be that whatever is causing the odor is also affecting the axolotl, and the reason only one is ill at this time is because it is the weaker of the 2 animals... if the water chemistry/quality is indeed the problem then it is only a matter of time before the other will also be affected. In regards to food... frozen blood worms and frozen brine shrimp are not a balanced, nutritious diet for axolotls. These animals should be getting worms, preferably live black worms, small red worms (such as found at a bait shop), and other foods with high protein content. Blood worms, even frozen, tend to pollute the water more than they provide any type of real nutrition for the animals... they should be seen as a "candy" rather than a main diet. You can also try adding live crickets to their diet, but that would require you to cover the tank with a tight fitting top to prevent the crickets from escaping. Axolotls will also eat small fish, and while feeder goldfish is not nutritious, feeder guppies and small minnows can provide a healthy food source. If the axolotls are eating frozen brine it would be a good idea to treat it with a good vitamin supplement, such as Zoe, because brine on its own has very little nutritional content. In regards to aggression... you may not see it happen, but unless you watch the tank closely for an entire 24 hrs, that is not surprising. There is much that happens in an aquarium when we aren't looking. Aggression can also be in the form of intimidation, which is more what it sounds like in your situation. I wonder, did the person who sold these animals to you warn you that if one outsizes the other by too much they have cannibalistic tendencies? For that reason it can be quite difficult to keep multiples, especially in a smaller size tank. I hope this helps you. I will watch closely for your replies and will offer you whatever else for help that I can. Axolotls are awesome animals, but keeping them long term can be rather difficult... they have some very specific care requirements. (and in case you're wondering, yes I do have many yrs of experience working with axolotls and keeping them long term) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dogear1973" <hamsterinmypocket@...> wrote: > > > They're in a 40gal tank, larger sized gravel, live plants, a few hiding places and some large stones they seem to like to rest on. I have a waterfall type filter that works great (from the others I've had ayway). It has an adjustment so the flow isn't too hard. Added an an air stone about a week ago. I do 1/2 water changes every 2 weeks, but water tends to evaporate since there's no lid on the tank - so I'm often adding a few inches before the change. I'm careful not to clean all the "good bacteria" off the filter parts when I do a more major cleaning of the tank. When I do that, it's the suction/vacuum tube every month but there's not much that comes up. > > Amonia levels are stable; I check with a dipstick test and I have a gadget on the glass that also gives a reading. Nitrates are controlled by adding a liquid supplement the week in between the partial water changes (or when it seems stinky in there. > > Food: frozen blood worms, frozen brine shrimp. Just ordered some sinking aquatic carnivore pellets to see if that will entice it. > > I got them from a reptile breeder a few towns over. He sexed them for me at purchase. One definitely has the "bump" on its underside, the other does not. I've had them about a year and a half - they were together at the breeder and still are. > > I'm curious because if it was the water, food, etc., then why is only one sick? And if it's aggression, I sure haven't seen any. No limbs or toes are missing. They tend to do their own thing... the larger one loves to "surf" in the filter current across the tank over and over all frisky like. The sick/smaller one stays around the bottom or near the big stones. I give food directly to the skinny one while the other is off foraging, but it still ignores it. > > > Crossing my fingers.... > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49094	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Eldred, Noura is from Syria. I presume since she regularly visits mom, mom is also there, not far away. Noura normally challenges us, since many of the items we take for granted are not available to us, and the guys who have been around the hobby for more than a while are left to remembering how we did it before we had a specific item available to us. Oh, BTW, it does get kinda warm in Syria during the summer. And a lot of people do not have air conditioning, as has been the case for many more years than we have existed as a country. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eldred lim Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:07 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Warm water FW fish 93˚ F? Woh... that's about 34˚C, very warm water. What area is your Mother's living in? Just a general area only. No need to be specific about location. I know of some very tough fishes but so far have never found any living fishes in the wild in this temperature range. Regards Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49095	From: Lisa	Date: 8/25/2010
Subject: Danios

I'm considering putting some danios in my tank. The zebras and maybe leopards. But the tank is still heated on account of my B/N catfish. Can danios be happy in warm water? Or Chinese golden medakas? Lisa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49096	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/26/2010
Subject: Sick Fish

Need help, my fish looks like a pineapple! You can see a photo of it here: http://pxleyes.wordpress.com/2010/08/26/exotic-pineapple-fish/ http://tinyurl.com/24qeb94 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49097	From: Ray	Date: 8/26/2010
Subject: Re: Danios

Hi Lisa, I don't know to what temperature your tank is heated to, nor do I know which species of Ancistrus (B/N catfish) you have to better understand about where you're keeping the temperature (there are at least 142 Ancistrus species at last count). As most B/N catfish prefer it in the mid 70's -- including the most common, A. dolichopterus, which likes it between 74 o and 81 o -- I could probably narrow it down to around 77 o - 78 o; you can correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know why you'd think that Zebras wouldn't do well anywhere in that range, since they'll be perfectly fine within the range of the common Bristle-Nose Catfish. You obviously missed my reply to Noura two days ago (8/24) in the thread having the Subject Title, "Warm water FW fish," in which I stated Zebra Danios have a temperature range from 60 o to 110 o, not that they'd enjoy those extremes, but by that you should see they'd be quite happy at 77 o or there-abouts. On the other hand, the Medaka's temperature range is between 40 o and 80 o, preferring from 64 o to 68 o; they are a cooler water fish which would not be entirely comfortable near their 80 o upper limit. You may have anther species of B/N catfish though, and some do not require as much heat. The A. temmincki has a range of 62 o to 80 o as it's extremes, doing better around 70 o, which Medaka would enjoy also, but since you're heating the tank you'd do better with Zebra Danios. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa" <lisa_lawless2004@...> wrote: > > I'm considering putting some Danios in my tank. The Zebras and maybe Leopards. But the tank is still heated on account of my B/N catfish. > Can Danios be happy in warm water? Or Chinese golden mMedakas? > > Lisa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49098	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/27/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Ha ha... no worries about the specie typo, Ray. My England no belly good some time ;-P Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49099	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/27/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Ahhhh... that explains it. Thanks, Steve for the info. Well, if I am not mistaken, there are fish specie(s) (Sorry, Ray! :-P) that are adapted living in oasis(s) pools in the deserts (UAE regions) although there isn't much information available right now. Aquatic life such as yabbies has also been found in water bodies in the Australian deserts. (Ray, for a moment, I want to spell it as desserts... getting hungry right now! Only had a light bite and a cuppa this morning) Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49100	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Eldred, I'm glad to see you took this in the way it was meant, as I trust you know I meant no criticism of your spelling in the English language. I wasn't really sure if you accidentally misspelled the word, or if you intentionally spelled it that way meaning it as only one species, but I thought I'd draw your attention to it while I saw it. As I'm sure you've seen, I make plenty of accidental typo errors which I don't always catch in time to correct before I send them -- and I have spell-check on place. I guess my trouble is that my fingers are too fat and I too often brush the key next to the one I'm hitting (LOL). Either that, or I have a bad aim < g >. The English language is not an easy one though, especially if you haven't grown up with it. For example, the singular AND the pleural of "deer" is "deer." With the pleural for "goose" is "geese," the pleural for "caboose" is not "cabeese." Anyway, bcak to the darwnig baord (back to the drawing board -- HA HA). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> wrote: > > > Ha ha... no worries about the specie typo, Ray. My England no belly good some time ;-P > > Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49101	From: Noura	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Eldred, As Steve mentioned, I live in Syria. The Syrian weather is quite hot this summer, warmer than any other summer that I recall since I moved from France in 1985. My tanks are typically at 30-32 C (82 - 90 F) all summer long, the two tanks in my -occasionally- conditioned living room can drop temperature to 28-29 when the AC is ON. In a side note, I use iced water bottles to give my fish a relatively cooler environment, keep the lights off, and the wooden lid open with a ceiling fan working. I found the African Cichlids Yellow Labs (A specieS that I brought according to the advise of the experienced hobbyists here) do great in my warm and hard water. Other fish species that I kept usually survive the summer quite well, and would get less sick in summer than winter, although you would expect the elevated temperature to stress them and affect their immune system. Mom lives in my same city, but insists on putting the tank in the kitchen, which will normally be warmer than other parts in the house. Noura <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/49088;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZzg5OG s0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzQ5MD g4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyODI4MjQzMTQ-> Re: Warm water FW fish Posted by: "eldred lim" <mailto:eldredsawk@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Warm%20water%20FW%20fish> eldredsawk@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/limesawk> limesawk Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:32 am (PDT) 93˚ F? Woh... that's about 34˚C, very warm water. What area is your Mother's living in? Just a general area only. No need to be specific about location. I know of some very tough fishes but so far have never found any living fishes in the wild in this temperature range. Regards Eldred at <http://ecologicord.blogspot.com> http://ecologicord.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49102	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Eldred, We have a certain highly endangered Pupfish (a type of Killiefish) species in this country commonly known as the "Devil's Hole Pupfish" (Cyprinodon diabolis) that is found in the Amargosa Desert (also known as "Death Valley") in the southwest part of the State of Nevada. It resides in a cavernous habitat in the Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge section of this desert-- although, it's no "meadows" by any stretch of the imagination -- in a place called Devil's Hole which is fed mainly by the aquifer system of the Amargosa River. While the temperature of this desert will vary from summer to winter, it has been recorded to reach as high as 134 o F (57 o C) during the Summer. The region averages 115 o F during the Summer, but can hold a constant mid-120 o F (125 o -- 128 o F) for a month at a time during some July's. The temperature of the water these fish live in is a constant 32 o C - 34 o C (90 o - 93 o F) throughout the year; this fish is said to be able to tolerate a temperature of at least 107 o F. Unfortunately for this fish, more and more water has been being drawn off for agriculture and human use by the neighboring State of California, resulting in the water table of this aquifer often dropping below this species spawning site, greatly impacting their reproductive abilities. This does show though, the extremes at which some fishes have evolved to live in. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> wrote: > > > Ahhhh... that explains it. Thanks, Steve for the info. Well, if I am not mistaken, there are fish specie(s) (Sorry, Ray! :-P) that are adapted living in oasis(s) pools in the deserts (UAE regions) although there isn't much information available right now. Aquatic life such as yabbies has also been found in water bodies in the Australian deserts. (Ray, for a moment, I want to spell it as desserts... getting hungry right now! Only had a light bite and a cuppa this morning) > > Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49103	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Dr. Surgeonfish, You are needed in the OR

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081265/The-life-saving-hernia-operation-performed-exotic-fish-family.html http://tinyurl.com/6b3gvq The life-saving hernia operation performed on exotic fish who is 'almost family' The life-saving hernia operation performed on exotic fish who is 'almost family' By Daily Mail Reporter Last updated at 1:45 AM on 29th October 2008 * Comments (13) * Add to My Stories A fish has had a bizarre life-saving operation after developing a hernia. Carla the 10-inch-long angelfish was laid out on an operating table while a vet and two assistants carried out the unusual surgery. After being anaesthetised, the exotic fish had a tube placed in her mouth and water pumped through her body and out her gills to enable her to breathe. Vet Sue Thornton repaired the stomach condition usually associated with humans using a scalpel, a needle and forceps during the £500 operation. After being stitched up and brought round, the plucky fish was kept under close observation before she went on to make a full recovery. Carla has been a resident at the London Aquarium for 10 years and staff decided to try to save her rather than put her to sleep when she developed the hernia. James Oliver, deputy curator of the aquarium, said: 'Carla's problems began when this mystery swelling appeared on her side. 'Within a couple of days it burst and we feared for her survival when it left a large open wound and her internal organs exposed.' Although her condition improved following a course of antibiotics, part of her stomach began to squeeze out of the wound. James added: 'I guess it may seem a bit extreme to operate on a small fish but Carla has been with us for 10 years and she is almost family. 'The last thing we wanted to was to lose her.' Vet Sue Thornton, of the International Zoo Veterinary Group, was called in to examine Carla and decided it was best to operate. Carla was transferred to a smaller tank containing water with a carefully measured dose of anaesthetic which knocked her out. She was then placed on an operating table while Sue carried out the 30-minute procedure. Sue said: 'I must admit I didn't think the prognosis was very promising to begin with. 'As soon as she was asleep we moved her on to the operating surface and fed a tube from the tank into her mouth and kept her breathing by pumping the water over her gills. 'I then stitched the wound together as best I could. It was difficult because the wall tissue was very stiff, but I managed to close it.' After the surgery Carla was moved into clean water and within five minutes she came round. The vet returned days later to remove the five stitches by which time Carla had returned to the attraction's Caribbean tropical fish display tank. Sue added: 'I am as thrilled and delighted as James and his colleagues are that Carla is back to her best.' [Pictures can be found at link, along with comments.] \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49104	From: William M	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: sick axolotl

The other thing that no one mentioned is how large are the animals? I think that they may be too large for the tank that they are in and are poluting the water too fast between water changes as well as you may be overfeeding the tank with the uneaten food getting between the rocks on the bottom. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Ammonia levels are "stable"? I'm not sure what that means. ANY amount of ammonia is toxic to the animals. Nitrates are "controlled"? That also doesn't tell us much of anything. Can you please post numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH? Can you please also post the water temp in the tank? > > The stick tests are very unreliable as they mostly offer inaccurate results. Inaccurate results can mean the difference between life and death for your animals. Can you please get the water tested for the 4 tests requested, using a liquid test kit and post exact numbers? Without those numbers there isn't a whole lot anyone can really advise you to do... even if one of your axolotls is sick, medications can't be suggested safely unless we know those numbers, as many medications can have undesirable/toxic effects if added to poor water quality. From what you have posted thus far, it sounds as if water quality is a large part of the problem. > > Can you post a photo of your tank set up? Seeing how territory is divided, getting a clear shot of the sick animal, etc. can often lend answers, especially for a trained eye who knows what to look for. > > I also agree with Amber, we need to know what chemicals you are adding to the tank.... all chemicals you are putting in there should be listed. When working with amphibians it is important to remember that everything you add to their water is absorbed through their skin. Many of those chemicals are toxic to amphibians and can be easily overdosed beyond what they can handle. > > Also, chemicals are not a replacement for water changes. If the water is polluted enough to give off a bad odor, then a water change is surely needed. Think of it in these terms... if you use your toilet every day and don't flush it, when it begins to smell, do you just add chemicals to make it "clean" until you are ready to clean it a week later? Common sense would dictate that you flush the toilet... the same thing applies to your aquarium. It could very well be that whatever is causing the odor is also affecting the axolotl, and the reason only one is ill at this time is because it is the weaker of the 2 animals... if the water chemistry/quality is indeed the problem then it is only a matter of time before the other will also be affected. > > In regards to food... frozen blood worms and frozen brine shrimp are not a balanced, nutritious diet for axolotls. These animals should be getting worms, preferably live black worms, small red worms (such as found at a bait shop), and other foods with high protein content. Blood worms, even frozen, tend to pollute the water more than they provide any type of real nutrition for the animals... they should be seen as a "candy" rather than a main diet. You can also try adding live crickets to their diet, but that would require you to cover the tank with a tight fitting top to prevent the crickets from escaping. Axolotls will also eat small fish, and while feeder goldfish is not nutritious, feeder guppies and small minnows can provide a healthy food source. If the axolotls are eating frozen brine it would be a good idea to treat it with a good vitamin supplement, such as Zoe, because brine on its own has very little nutritional content. > > > In regards to aggression... you may not see it happen, but unless you watch the tank closely for an entire 24 hrs, that is not surprising. There is much that happens in an aquarium when we aren't looking. Aggression can also be in the form of intimidation, which is more what it sounds like in your situation. > > I wonder, did the person who sold these animals to you warn you that if one outsizes the other by too much they have cannibalistic tendencies? For that reason it can be quite difficult to keep multiples, especially in a smaller size tank. > > I hope this helps you. I will watch closely for your replies and will offer you whatever else for help that I can. Axolotls are awesome animals, but keeping them long term can be rather difficult... they have some very specific care requirements. > > (and in case you're wondering, yes I do have many yrs of experience working with axolotls and keeping them long term) > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dogear1973" <hamsterinmypocket@> wrote: > > > > > > They're in a 40gal tank, larger sized gravel, live plants, a few hiding places and some large stones they seem to like to rest on. I have a waterfall type filter that works great (from the others I've had ayway). It has an adjustment so the flow isn't too hard. Added an an air stone about a week ago. I do 1/2 water changes every 2 weeks, but water tends to evaporate since there's no lid on the tank - so I'm often adding a few inches before the change. I'm careful not to clean all the "good bacteria" off the filter parts when I do a more major cleaning of the tank. When I do that, it's the suction/vacuum tube every month but there's not much that comes up. > > > > Amonia levels are stable; I check with a dipstick test and I have a gadget on the glass that also gives a reading. Nitrates are controlled by adding a liquid supplement the week in between the partial water changes (or when it seems stinky in there. > > > > Food: frozen blood worms, frozen brine shrimp. Just ordered some sinking aquatic carnivore pellets to see if that will entice it. > > > > I got them from a reptile breeder a few towns over. He sexed them for me at purchase. One definitely has the "bump" on its underside, the other does not. I've had them about a year and a half - they were together at the breeder and still are. > > > > I'm curious because if it was the water, food, etc., then why is only one sick? And if it's aggression, I sure haven't seen any. No limbs or toes are missing. They tend to do their own thing... the larger one loves to "surf" in the filter current across the tank over and over all frisky like. The sick/smaller one stays around the bottom or near the big stones. I give food directly to the skinny one while the other is off foraging, but it still ignores it. > > > > > > Crossing my fingers.... > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49106	From: Aquatic Life	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Oops, my bad

Hi All, I apologize for the previous post sent by accident, I was testing my new "signature" and did not mean to send it to the group, thanks, Aaron  ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you! http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife stop by and see ~ membership is free! Aquatic Life ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49107	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/28/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

I have 1 tank here that runs about 90F all year round, tends to be warmer in the winter due to its location in the room from the heat vent. Synodonis catfish thrive in this tank along with my daffodil brichardi cichlids. I'm sure it helps that the water is also quite hard here, but either way they are more options for high temp and both compatible with yellow labs. One warning about the brichardi cichlids... watch their teeth! The 2 I took in grew up to reveal severe deformities, and because there would be no other home for them in their condition, I kept them. Their deformities are mostly in the head/facial area, and really show off their teeth. While brichardi are not usually aggressive towards people, they can have their moments... so care should be taken when handling them or working in their tank. I have never been bitten, but I would not want to feel what they could do. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Eldred, We have a certain highly endangered Pupfish (a type of Killiefish) species in this country commonly known as the "Devil's Hole Pupfish" (Cyprinodon diabolis) that is found in the Amargosa Desert (also known as "Death Valley") in the southwest part of the State of Nevada. It resides in a cavernous habitat in the Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge section of this desert-- although, it's no "meadows" by any stretch of the imagination -- in a place called Devil's Hole which is fed mainly by the aquifer system of the Amargosa River. > > While the temperature of this desert will vary from summer to winter, it has been recorded to reach as high as 134 o F (57 o C) during the Summer. The region averages 115 o F during the Summer, but can hold a constant mid-120 o F (125 o -- 128 o F) for a month at a time during some July's. The temperature of the water these fish live in is a constant 32 o C - 34 o C (90 o - 93 o F) throughout the year; this fish is said to be able to tolerate a temperature of at least 107 o F. > > Unfortunately for this fish, more and more water has been being drawn off for agriculture and human use by the neighboring State of California, resulting in the water table of this aquifer often dropping below this species spawning site, greatly impacting their reproductive abilities. This does show though, the extremes at which some fishes have evolved to live in. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@> wrote: > > > > > > Ahhhh... that explains it. Thanks, Steve for the info. Well, if I am not mistaken, there are fish specie(s) (Sorry, Ray! :-P) that are adapted living in oasis(s) pools in the deserts (UAE regions) although there isn't much information available right now. Aquatic life such as yabbies has also been found in water bodies in the Australian deserts. (Ray, for a moment, I want to spell it as desserts... getting hungry right now! Only had a light bite and a cuppa this morning) > > > > Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49108	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Sticklebacks evolve cold tolerance in three generations

We have a tendency to pooh pooh releases of warm water fish in waters that are thought to be too cold for them to overwinter. A recent study shows that this belief may be misplaced. Whether the belief is misplaced or not, no one should ever release any fish or other aquatic animal into an environment it did not come from. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3129&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August_19_2010_b&utm_term=Sticklebacks_evolve_cold_tolerance_in_three_generations&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/268x4hh Sticklebacks evolve cold tolerance in three generations Sticklebacks evolve cold tolerance in three generations Copyright (c) Piet Spaans, Creative Commons Wild populations of the marine Threespine stickleback could evolve a tolerance to colder water temperatures than they currently experience, according to new research from the University of British Columbia. Such rapid evolution is considered important with the continuing threat of global warming, which is expected to bring with it a greater variability in temperatures. Gasterosteus aculeatus exist in both marine and freshwater habitats, albeit that they have evolved separately, particularly morphologically with freshwater sticklebacks having far fewer armour plates than their marine ancestors. Tests were conducted on wild and lab-raised sticklebacks (marine and freshwater), the results of which showed that freshwater sticklebacks were more cold-tolerant than their marine counterparts. This was to be expected, given that freshwater lakes in British Columbia reach colder temperatures than the sea during the winter. To discover how quickly the adaptation could take place, lead author Rowan Barrett and his team, transplanted wild marine sticklebacks from Oyster Lagoon, British Columbia to freshwater experimental ponds of 23m x 23m x 3m (max. depth). --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49109	From: Ray	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

There may be occasions when, depending on the tank's location, it may remain uncontrollably warmer than one would prefer it to be. As Tanganyika Cichlids have evolved at temperatures far lower than 90 F, this is actually out of their natural range since the Lake's littoral (biogeographical, in this context) zone stays within 75 F (24 C) and 84 F (29C) year 'round -- the generally accepted recommended temperatures for these fishes in captivity being from 77 F o 79 F for best health and longevity. This is not to say that there are not fishes which will endure these higher temperatures as Eldred and I have been discussing, and which may even be able to live for even shorter periods of time at slightly higher temperatures yet, but I would hesitate to describe this as thriving since being forced to constantly live this far out of their naturally preferred range of comfort can induce stress which I'm sure you're aware of, even though the fish may not exhibit it. At the very least, the much higher metabolism will shorten its lifespan, so for this reason alone, I couldn't call it thriving -- but I'm glad to see that these fish must be doing fairly well to have survived this long at this extreme. It's regretful that your Brichardi Cichlids display such severe deformities that they appear grotesque enough as though their teeth might make them appear as aggressive. Their appearance seems to equate them with Piranhas, from this warning (LOL). All Cichlids will display a degree of aggression at time, usually more so when breeding -- even Angelfish. To feel as though we need to be forewarned of such behavior from this species, I'm even wondering if perhaps this fish may have been misidentified, as any species in what is known to be the "Brichardi Complex" (a small group of Neolamprologines) are notoriously extremely peaceful. There are other similar (related) Tanganyika species in other Genera which have similar names and/or much pronounced buccal dentition as their natural appearance. Among those are Telmatochromis caninus (syn. T. dhonti) which gets to about 4 3/4" and which can be extremely aggressive. Chalinochromis brichardi is sometimes confused with Neolamplologus brichardi in name. Then there is Lamprologus caninus which also displays large buccal dentition, for a Cichlid, while it gets to about 7" or 8" -- and which I'd be more inclined as believing they could inflict some damage. The Daffodil -- Neolamprologus pulcher get to about 3 3/4". Then too, there are several more distantly related Tanganyika Cichlids which display small teeth, and which are aggressive towards each other but again, not to people, unless perhaps while breeding. Among those are the various Goby Cichlids; Eretmodus cyanostictus (displays distinctively chisel-like teeth), Spathodus irsacae (has long curving teeth) and Tanganicodus marlieri (which has teeth similar to that of the Malawi Cichlid, Labeotropheus trewavasae -- developed for their unique feeding niche. I really cannot support the notion that any of the Cichlids of the Brichardi Complex would be in any way any more aggressive to humans while breeding (and certainly not at any other tims) than are Angelfish or Discus when breeding -- and they would certainly not pose any physical danger to someone. For one thing, N. brichardi is known by the common name of "Empress of Burundi," and also "Fairy Cichlid" (besides also, the "Lyretail Cichlid") not only from its appearance but from its extremely mild behavior. I've kept various members of this Group for a good many years, going back to 1971 when Pierre Brichard sent me the very first ones, which I was fortunate enough to be the first to breed (among other species he sent that I was also lucky enough to breed first) in this country. At that time, these ones that Brichard sent were described as Lamprologus savoryi elongatus, so named in 1952 by Ethelwynn Trewavas and Max Poll. In 1974, Poll redescribed them as Lamprologus brichardi, in honor of Pierre Brichard . Subsequently, the Genus was changed to Neolamprologus -- and also susequently, the N. pulcher was also being imported, which I've also had. These species are schooling fish when non-breeding -- and, when they are breeding, the juveniles of one set of parents all cooperate in help rearing and protecting their smaller siblings -- very similar to what all the members of the Genus Julidochromis do. While this has it's distinct advantages when hobbyists breed and raise these fish for sale -- since there's no danger of them eating each other -- the major drawback is that most often, batches of them being retailed will usually be from all one pair of adults, quite often being inbred over the years the hobbyists raise them unless they introduce new blood. Without any new genes being added though, more and more deformities show up. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > I have 1 tank here that runs about 90F all year round, tends to be warmer in the winter due to its location in the room from the heat vent. Synodonis catfish thrive in this tank along with my daffodil brichardi cichlids. I'm sure it helps that the water is also quite hard here, but either way they are more options for high temp and both compatible with yellow labs. > One warning about the brichardi cichlids... watch their teeth! The 2 I took in grew up to reveal severe deformities, and because there would be no other home for them in their condition, I kept them. Their deformities are mostly in the head/facial area, and really show off their teeth. While brichardi are not usually aggressive towards people, they can have their moments... so care should be taken when handling them or working in their tank. I have never been bitten, but I would not want to feel what they could do. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Eldred, We have a certain highly endangered Pupfish (a type of Killiefish) species in this country commonly known as the "Devil's Hole Pupfish" (Cyprinodon diabolis) that is found in the Amargosa Desert (also known as "Death Valley") in the southwest part of the State of Nevada. It resides in a cavernous habitat in the Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge section of this desert-- although, it's no "meadows" by any stretch of the imagination -- in a place called Devil's Hole which is fed mainly by the aquifer system of the Amargosa River. > > > > While the temperature of this desert will vary from summer to winter, it has been recorded to reach as high as 134 o F (57 o C) during the Summer. The region averages 115 o F during the Summer, but can hold a constant mid-120 o F (125 o -- 128 o F) for a month at a time during some July's. The temperature of the water these fish live in is a constant 32 o C - 34 o C (90 o - 93 o F) throughout the year; this fish is said to be able to tolerate a temperature of at least 107 o F. > > > > Unfortunately for this fish, more and more water has been being drawn off for agriculture and human use by the neighboring State of California, resulting in the water table of this aquifer often dropping below this species spawning site, greatly impacting their reproductive abilities. This does show though, the extremes at which some fishes have evolved to live in. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ahhhh... that explains it. Thanks, Steve for the info. Well, if I am not mistaken, there are fish specie(s) (Sorry, Ray! :-P) that are adapted living in oasis(s) pools in the deserts (UAE regions) although there isn't much information available right now. Aquatic life such as yabbies has also been found in water bodies in the Australian deserts. (Ray, for a moment, I want to spell it as desserts... getting hungry right now! Only had a light bite and a cuppa this morning) > > > > > > Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49110	From: JenniferP	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Ok, I did a 48 hour test on my tap water as suggested and it turns out the pH straight out of the tap is coming in at 8.2 pH, all levels are at 0 ppm (Nitrite, Nitrate and Ammonia). Any suggestions on what to do with this situation or leave it at 8.2 for my fish. Jennifer >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49111	From: 708804	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

leave it and send us a pic. ----- Original Message ----- From: JenniferP To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:07 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Ok, I did a 48 hour test on my tap water as suggested and it turns out the pH straight out of the tap is coming in at 8.2 pH, all levels are at 0 ppm (Nitrite, Nitrate and Ammonia). Any suggestions on what to do with this situation or leave it at 8.2 for my fish. Jennifer > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49112	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

Jennifer, pH is a tricky thing to play with. Even experienced people can find themselves in trouble with pH when they try to change it, and find themselves in trouble very quickly. Leave the pH as it is and start looking for fish that have a natural inclination to the higher pH levels you have. I know many cichlid enthusiasts that would kill for your water for their Rift Lake cichlids. There are many interesting fish that need a high pH to do well in aquaria. A high pH generally, but not always, indicates a high level of hardness. This article in Wikipedia can give you a quick lesson about hard water: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water When I was a kid in school, way too many years ago, there was a simple test I learned to test for hardness that required a liquid detergent and a sample of your water. You would draw a certain amount of water into a glass or other relatively small container. You would add a drop of the liquid detergent and shake, add another drop and shake until you were able to develop suds. The number of drops would determine the hardness of the water. I could not locate that simple test in a quick Google search. It may be that now we have so many different liquid detergents to do so many jobs that it is no longer a simple test in that I found that this test had become so complex that one practically needs a lab to perform it in. Thus, it appears that the easiest way to measure your hardness, without relying on the thickness of the scum left in your bathtub <g>, is to purchase a test kit to measure hardness. Another way, if you are on a public water supply, is to check their annual report, a copy of which you should receive at some point during the year, or, it should be available online at the web site of the supplier of your water. In any case, you should start to research fish that do well in high pH water to replace the fish you will eventually lose, one hopes through old age. Do keep in mind, as you have already discovered, many fish do well, though not superbly, in a much wider pH range than they are given credit for. However, it is always optimal to pick your fish for your pH and hardness. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JenniferP Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Ok, I did a 48 hour test on my tap water as suggested and it turns out the pH straight out of the tap is coming in at 8.2 pH, all levels are at 0 ppm (Nitrite, Nitrate and Ammonia). Any suggestions on what to do with this situation or leave it at 8.2 for my fish. Jennifer

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49113	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

African cichlids would love that pH. How big is your tank? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Jennifer, pH is a tricky thing to play with. Even experienced people can find themselves in trouble with pH when they try to change it, and find themselves in trouble very quickly. Leave the pH as it is and start looking for fish that have a natural inclination to the higher pH levels you have. I know many cichlid enthusiasts that would kill for your water for their Rift Lake cichlids. There are many interesting fish that need a high pH to do well in aquaria. A high pH generally, but not always, indicates a high level of hardness. This article in Wikipedia can give you a quick lesson about hard water: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water When I was a kid in school, way too many years ago, there was a simple test I learned to test for hardness that required a liquid detergent and a sample of your water. You would draw a certain amount of water into a glass or other relatively small container. You would add a drop of the liquid detergent and shake, add another drop and shake until you were able to develop suds. The number of drops would determine the hardness of the water. I could not locate that simple test in a quick Google search. It may be that now we have so many different liquid detergents to do so many jobs that it is no longer a simple test in that I found that this test had become so complex that one practically needs a lab to perform it in. Thus, it appears that the easiest way to measure your hardness, without relying on the thickness of the scum left in your bathtub <g>, is to purchase a test kit to measure hardness. Another way, if you are on a public water supply, is to check their annual report, a copy of which you should receive at some point during the year, or, it should be available online at the web site of the supplier of your water. In any case, you should start to research fish that do well in high pH water to replace the fish you will eventually lose, one hopes through old age. Do keep in mind, as you have already discovered, many fish do well, though not superbly, in a much wider pH range than they are given credit for. However, it is always optimal to pick your fish for your pH and hardness. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of JenniferP Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Ok, I did a 48 hour test on my tap water as suggested and it turns out the pH straight out of the tap is coming in at 8.2 pH, all levels are at 0 ppm (Nitrite, Nitrate and Ammonia). Any suggestions on what to do with this situation or leave it at 8.2 for my fish. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49114	From: animallover1861	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: NEW TO THE GROUP

hello to all. i have small aquarium 20 gallons, for my sweet 3 inches long red belly piranha, that i adore hehehe. i would like to know how not give him alive fish. he will only eat small gold fish, so sad for the little fish, im sure there is a way! thank you all. DANA AND DAMIAN

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49115	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

I have a 20 gallon tall and a 45 gallon tall, I just got rid of my cichlids unfortunately I didn't like their nature and they were all the same kind so they kind of bored me. I do however have a baby that was left over from one of my cichlids who must have been brooding and spit one out that didn't get back with her when I gave them away. Jen ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, August 29, 2010 3:04:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction African cichlids would love that pH. How big is your tank? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Jennifer, pH is a tricky thing to play with. Even experienced people can find themselves in trouble with pH when they try to change it, and find themselves in trouble very quickly. Leave the pH as it is and start looking for fish that have a natural inclination to the higher pH levels you have. I know many cichlid enthusiasts that would kill for your water for their Rift Lake cichlids. There are many interesting fish that need a high pH to do well in aquaria. A high pH generally, but not always, indicates a high level of hardness. This article in Wikipedia can give you a quick lesson about hard water: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water When I was a kid in school, way too many years ago, there was a simple test I learned to test for hardness that required a liquid detergent and a sample of your water. You would draw a certain amount of water into a glass or other relatively small container. You would add a drop of the liquid detergent and shake, add another drop and shake until you were able to develop suds. The number of drops would determine the hardness of the water. I could not locate that simple test in a quick Google search. It may be that now we have so many different liquid detergents to do so many jobs that it is no longer a simple test in that I found that this test had become so complex that one practically needs a lab to perform it in. Thus, it appears that the easiest way to measure your hardness, without relying on the thickness of the scum left in your bathtub <g>, is to purchase a test kit to measure hardness. Another way, if you are on a public water supply, is to check their annual report, a copy of which you should receive at some point during the year, or, it should be available online at the web site of the supplier of your water. In any case, you should start to research fish that do well in high pH water to replace the fish you will eventually lose, one hopes through old age. Do keep in mind, as you have already discovered, many fish do well, though not superbly, in a much wider pH range than they are given credit for. However, it is always optimal to pick your fish for your pH and hardness. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of JenniferP Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Ok, I did a 48 hour test on my tap water as suggested and it turns out the pH straight out of the tap is coming in at 8.2 pH, all levels are at 0 ppm (Nitrite, Nitrate and Ammonia). Any suggestions on what to do with this situation or leave it at 8.2 for my fish. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49116	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/29/2010
Subject: Re: Introduction

The tall tanks are not the best shape for the African Rift Lake cichlids that like the high pH because they like lots of territory on the substrate. Best of luck in your selection! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Pare Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction I have a 20 gallon tall and a 45 gallon tall, I just got rid of my cichlids unfortunately I didn't like their nature and they were all the same kind so they kind of bored me. I do however have a baby that was left over from one of my cichlids who must have been brooding and spit one out that didn't get back with her when I gave them away. Jen ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, August 29, 2010 3:04:37 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction African cichlids would love that pH. How big is your tank? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Jennifer, pH is a tricky thing to play with. Even experienced people can find themselves in trouble with pH when they try to change it, and find themselves in trouble very quickly. Leave the pH as it is and start looking for fish that have a natural inclination to the higher pH levels you have. I know many cichlid enthusiasts that would kill for your water for their Rift Lake cichlids. There are many interesting fish that need a high pH to do well in aquaria. A high pH generally, but not always, indicates a high level of hardness. This article in Wikipedia can give you a quick lesson about hard water: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water When I was a kid in school, way too many years ago, there was a simple test I learned to test for hardness that required a liquid detergent and a sample of your water. You would draw a certain amount of water into a glass or other relatively small container. You would add a drop of the liquid detergent and shake, add another drop and shake until you were able to develop suds. The number of drops would determine the hardness of the water. I could not locate that simple test in a quick Google search. It may be that now we have so many different liquid detergents to do so many jobs that it is no longer a simple test in that I found that this test had become so complex that one practically needs a lab to perform it in. Thus, it appears that the easiest way to measure your hardness, without relying on the thickness of the scum left in your bathtub <g>, is to purchase a test kit to measure hardness. Another way, if you are on a public water supply, is to check their annual report, a copy of which you should receive at some point during the year, or, it should be available online at the web site of the supplier of your water. In any case, you should start to research fish that do well in high pH water to replace the fish you will eventually lose, one hopes through old age. Do keep in mind, as you have already discovered, many fish do well, though not superbly, in a much wider pH range than they are given credit for. However, it is always optimal to pick your fish for your pH and hardness. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of JenniferP Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Ok, I did a 48 hour test on my tap water as suggested and it turns out the pH straight out of the tap is coming in at 8.2 pH, all levels are at 0 ppm (Nitrite, Nitrate and Ammonia). Any suggestions on what to do with this situation or leave it at 8.2 for my fish. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49117	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Noura, Greetings from Malaysia. Any curious question... what is the average ambient temperature during the colder months in Syria? Will it also be correct that there is a very wide variance in midday and midnight temperatures? There are automated chilling systems designed for aquariums that can deliver a consistent selected water temperature as an option. The power consumption would be as that of an average 900 liter refrigerator and can treat up to a 500-liter tank. In an air-conditioned room, you will be able to delivery an optimal water temperature to your preferences. It's a bit difficult find a quality chiller in my city here so one option I am considering is to have a refrigerator fabricator to custom-make it. We suffered a heat wave last July. That cause the water temperatures in our tanks to rise up to 31'C and subsequently lost many of our breeders. Our most painful loss was our entire collection of wild caught Betta macrostoma(s) so we learn a very good lesson here and conclude that tropical fishes do not necessary mean they can tolerate warm waters. Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49118	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Ray And to think that pupfishes were pretty common when I was young. I was not aware that pupfishes could withstand 57'C. You are very sure of that? Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49119	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!

We can offer our fingers? Okay Folks... Just kidding. Don't you dare stick your fingers in there! Ray, don't you dare cook ma goose! Ideally, you should have more than one specimen as they are active schooling fishes. That will encourage your fishes to be less selective on food and develop the hunting pack mentality. Meats such as raw fish, prawns or even chicken meat with the skin and fats removed and dangled on a piece of nylon string or SS wire is good. After all, in the wild... they do attack live prey such as four-footed animals and birds in the waters usually suffering from cuts and the blood attracts them. Some raw fish however, may not be very ideal as (some such as the lizard-fishes) raw fish proteins denature rapidly after the fish dies. Lizard fish proteins denature within hours from the point catch. Raw denatured fish proteins can cause fish resistance to digestion. In a fish-eating-fish world, this is one of the natural peculiarities of Nature in fish nutrition particularly when it comes to marine fishes used as food. Unfortunate, when you have carnivores chomping on raw proteins, you'll need to have a good filter system plus very regular partial water changes. Remember, don't stick your fingers in there! Ray's (Moderator!) gonna cut loose ma moose. P.S. If readers insists that I put ma fingers in there, I'll offer you some of ma fish fingers which is not too bad a thing that you can make your own, save some money and them goldfishes. It's not very difficult, just a bit of work by scraping the flesh off a (Fresh!) fish fillet and molding the mash into fingers before you steam it on a non-stick tray or mat. Before this stage, multi-vitamins can be added to increase the food value of ma fingers. An egg/ and fish blood run-offs will act as a binder. Most commercial fish fingers will have a binder/ filler (carbs, flours, sugars) and plenty of chemicals (sodium this, sodium that, sodium there) which you do not want. Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com <DANA AND DAMIAN quoted...> hello to all. i have small aquarium 20 gallons, for my sweet 3 inches long red belly piranha, that i adore hehehe. i would like to know how not give him alive fish. he will only eat small gold fish, so sad for the little fish, im sure there is a way! thank you all. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49120	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Dr. Surgeonfish, You are needed in the OR

Thank you for posting this. It is very encouraging to see such things happening, and to know that my husband and I are not the only ones out there performing surgery on fish and having a good success rate. We performed an eye removal surgery on my albino oscar and saved her life. She lived a total of 12 1/2 yrs, much longer than the average. That was the first of my own pets I had ever operated on, it is a very different experience because of the emotional attachment. Surgical procedures on fish is not an easy thing, but pulling them through it is the hardest part. A big horray! for this team who performed this surgery and nursed her back to health! Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081265/The-life-saving-hernia-operation-performed-exotic-fish-family.html > > http://tinyurl.com/6b3gvq > > The life-saving hernia operation performed on exotic fish who is 'almost family' > > The life-saving hernia operation performed on exotic fish who is 'almost family' > > By Daily Mail Reporter > Last updated at 1:45 AM on 29th October 2008 > > * Comments (13) > * Add to My Stories > > > A fish has had a bizarre life-saving operation after developing a hernia. > > Carla the 10-inch-long angelfish was laid out on an operating table while a vet and two assistants carried out the unusual surgery. > > After being anaesthetised, the exotic fish had a tube placed in her mouth and water pumped through her body and out her gills to enable her to breathe. > > Vet Sue Thornton repaired the stomach condition usually associated with humans using a scalpel, a needle and forceps during the £500 operation. > > After being stitched up and brought round, the plucky fish was kept under close observation before she went on to make a full recovery. > > Carla has been a resident at the London Aquarium for 10 years and staff decided to try to save her rather than put her to sleep when she developed the hernia. > > James Oliver, deputy curator of the aquarium, said: 'Carla's problems began when this mystery swelling appeared on her side. > > 'Within a couple of days it burst and we feared for her survival when it left a large open wound and her internal organs exposed.' > > Although her condition improved following a course of antibiotics, part of her stomach began to squeeze out of the wound. > > James added: 'I guess it may seem a bit extreme to operate on a small fish but Carla has been with us for 10 years and she is almost family. > > 'The last thing we wanted to was to lose her.' > > Vet Sue Thornton, of the International Zoo Veterinary Group, was called in to examine Carla and decided it was best to operate. > > Carla was transferred to a smaller tank containing water with a carefully measured dose of anaesthetic which knocked her out. > > She was then placed on an operating table while Sue carried out the 30-minute procedure. > > Sue said: 'I must admit I didn't think the prognosis was very promising to begin with. > > 'As soon as she was asleep we moved her on to the operating surface and fed a tube from the tank into her mouth and kept her breathing by pumping the water over her gills. > > 'I then stitched the wound together as best I could. It was difficult because the wall tissue was very stiff, but I managed to close it.' After the surgery Carla was moved into clean water and within five minutes she came round. > > The vet returned days later to remove the five stitches by which time Carla had returned to the attraction's Caribbean tropical fish display tank. > > Sue added: 'I am as thrilled and delighted as James and his colleagues are that Carla is back to her best.' > > [Pictures can be found at link, along with comments.] > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49121	From: Animal Lover	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!

thank you eldred !   i will try that. and will get a stronger filter. he is not agressif at all, i put my hand in all the time to fix the plants and he runs from me, i do feed him befor i put my hand in,  i keep him alone to see if i can tame him. when he is bigger i will not put my hand in the aquarium. after what i saw in the new movie PIRAHNA lol........ HELP ALL ANIMALS IN NEED, AND GOD WILL HELP YOU !!  --- On Mon, 8/30/10, eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> wrote: From: eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Save your goldfishes! To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Received: Monday, August 30, 2010, 1:32 AM We can offer our fingers? Okay Folks... Just kidding. Don't you dare stick your fingers in there! Ray, don't you dare cook ma goose! Ideally, you should have more than one specimen as they are active schooling fishes. That will encourage your fishes to be less selective on food and develop the hunting pack mentality. Meats such as raw fish, prawns or even chicken meat with the skin and fats removed and dangled on a piece of nylon string or SS wire is good. After all, in the wild... they do attack live prey such as four-footed animals and birds in the waters usually suffering from cuts and the blood attracts them. Some raw fish however, may not be very ideal as (some such as the lizard-fishes) raw fish proteins denature rapidly after the fish dies. Lizard fish proteins denature within hours from the point catch. Raw denatured fish proteins can cause fish resistance to digestion. In a fish-eating-fish world, this is one of the natural peculiarities of Nature in fish nutrition particularly when it comes to marine fishes used as food. Unfortunate, when you have carnivores chomping on raw proteins, you'll need to have a good filter system plus very regular partial water changes. Remember, don't stick your fingers in there! Ray's (Moderator!) gonna cut loose ma moose. P.S. If readers insists that I put ma fingers in there, I'll offer you some of ma fish fingers which is not too bad a thing that you can make your own, save some money and them goldfishes. It's not very difficult, just a bit of work by scraping the flesh off a (Fresh!) fish fillet and molding the mash into fingers before you steam it on a non-stick tray or mat. Before this stage, multi-vitamins can be added to increase the food value of ma fingers. An egg/ and fish blood run-offs will act as a binder. Most commercial fish fingers will have a binder/ filler (carbs, flours, sugars) and plenty of chemicals (sodium this, sodium that, sodium there) which you do not want. Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com                         <DANA AND DAMIAN quoted...> hello to all. i have small aquarium 20 gallons, for my sweet 3 inches long red belly piranha, that i adore hehehe. i would like to know how not give him alive fish. he will only eat small gold fish, so sad for the little fish, im sure there is a way! thank you all.                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49122	From: Ray	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Eldred, Many of the Pupfish are very common; I was referring particularly to the rarest one we have here in the States, which also lives at extremes of temperatures as it lives in one of the hottest regions on earth. Actually, there are no less than 10 Genera which comprise the various Pupfish, two of these Genera having only one species. But, there are over 100 different species of them. The Genus (Cyprinodon) that the Devil's Hole Pupfish belongs to has at least 2 dozen species, including several subspecies. There are even Pupfish in Europe. Spain has a number of Pupfish of the Genus Aphanius. There are several other Aphanius species in Syria where Noura lives. Our native American Flagfish (Jordanella floridae), in a Genus by itself, is considered a Pupfish and it's fairly common. On the 57 o C that you bring up -- you'll need to go back and re-read my message. I wrote that the Devil's Hole Pupfish could tolerate at least 107 o F (which equates to 41.6 o C). The 57 o C that I mention was in reference to the hottest temperature that Death Valley ever reached -- which was on July 10, 1913. In that same sentence, I wrote this as being 134 o F. Actually, to be more precise, it would come out to 56.6 o C. This record temperature was only shattered by the 136 o F (57.8 o C) temperature that was reached in Lybia, in the Sahara Desert in 1922. BTW, on July 15, 1972, Death Valley had a GROUND (not air) temperature of 201 o F (93.8 o C). You wouldn't want to walk on it (LOL). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> wrote: > > > Hi Ray > And to think that pupfishes were pretty common when I was young. I was not aware that pupfishes could withstand 57'C. You are very sure of that? > > > Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49123	From: Ray	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Eldred, Sorry to hear about the lose of those species Bettas. For those not entirely familiar with Betta macrostoma, they can retail here in the States at up to $140 each for males, or $270 for a pair. That's a painful loss not only in fish, but financially too. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> wrote: > > > Hi Noura, > Greetings from Malaysia. > > > Any curious question... what is the average ambient temperature during the colder months in Syria? Will it also be correct that there is a very wide variance in midday and midnight temperatures? > > > There are automated chilling systems designed for aquariums that can deliver a consistent selected water temperature as an option. The power consumption would be as that of an average 900 liter refrigerator and can treat up to a 500-liter tank. In an air-conditioned room, you will be able to delivery an optimal water temperature to your preferences. > > > > It's a bit difficult find a quality chiller in my city here so one option I am considering is to have a refrigerator fabricator to custom-make it. We suffered a heat wave last July. That cause the water temperatures in our tanks to rise up to 31'C and subsequently lost many of our breeders. Our most painful loss was our entire collection of wild caught Betta macrostoma(s) so we learn a very good lesson here and conclude that tropical fishes do not necessary mean they can tolerate warm waters. > > > Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49124	From: Ray	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!

I can appreciate our humor, Eldred < G >. As for Piranhas, there are those who say that their much of their reputation has been fabricated, and that they're really no dangerous at all. There a local collector who also owns a large retail fish store, and who makes several trips to South America each year. On one of those occasions, he made a video while he was filming under water not more than 10 feet away from a school of large Red Belly Piranhas just doing their thing swimming about in their natural habitat among the aquatic plants. He was filming other fish at this time also, but kept returning the camera on the Piranhas during the time (about 20 to 25 minutes) he was filming. It made for very entertaining viewing, and an entirely different prospective on these fish. I wouldn't entirely trust any of them, since we know what they're capable of. A friend of mine whom I gone collecting with (although not for Piranhas) was bitten once, as well as an associate of his on another occasion, but I believe it was in a situation where the water had become low and the fish felt trapped. Still, I remember a number of times seeing nature shows on TV where Piranhas ripped a Capybara (a large S.A. rodent, probably weighing about 40 pounds) down to nothing but bare bones in less than 5 minutes -- I'm sure others have seen it too. There are some who say that was staged, and that it was a dead animal that was cut open in several places to purposely attract the fish to the carcass. I don't think I'd want to take that chance. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> wrote: > > > We can offer our fingers? > Okay Folks... Just kidding. Don't you dare stick your fingers in there! Ray, don't you dare cook ma goose! > > Ideally, you should have more than one specimen as they are active schooling fishes. That will encourage your fishes to be less selective on food and develop the hunting pack mentality. Meats such as raw fish, prawns or even chicken meat with the skin and fats removed and dangled on a piece of nylon string or SS wire is good. After all, in the wild... they do attack live prey such as four-footed animals and birds in the waters usually suffering from cuts and the blood attracts them. > > Some raw fish however, may not be very ideal as (some such as the lizard-fishes) raw fish proteins denature rapidly after the fish dies. Lizard fish proteins denature within hours from the point catch. Raw denatured fish proteins can cause fish resistance to digestion. In a fish-eating-fish world, this is one of the natural peculiarities of Nature in fish nutrition particularly when it comes to marine fishes used as food. > > Unfortunate, when you have carnivores chomping on raw proteins, you'll need to have a good filter system plus very regular partial water changes. Remember, don't stick your fingers in there! Ray's (Moderator!) gonna cut loose ma moose. > > P.S. If readers insists that I put ma fingers in there, I'll offer you some of ma fish fingers which is not too bad a thing that you can make your own, save some money and them goldfishes. It's not very difficult, just a bit of work by scraping the flesh off a (Fresh!) fish fillet and molding the mash into fingers before you steam it on a non-stick tray or mat. Before this stage, multi-vitamins can be added to increase the food value of ma fingers. An egg/ and fish blood run-offs will act as a binder. Most commercial fish fingers will have a binder/ filler (carbs, flours, sugars) and plenty of chemicals (sodium this, sodium that, sodium there) which you do not want. > > Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <DANA AND DAMIAN quoted...> hello to all. i have small aquarium 20 gallons, for my sweet 3 inches long red belly piranha, that i adore hehehe. i would like to know how not give him alive fish. he will only eat small gold fish, so sad for the little fish, im sure there is a way! thank you all. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49125	From: Noura	Date: 8/30/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Eldred, In the coast area where I live, there aren't huge differences between day and night temperatures. But more to the east , in desert-like areas, I believe there are. In the coldest months of Winter here, if I have an unheated tank in an unheated room, I don't think its temperature will drop below 18 - 20 C (64 - 68 F). Sorry about your losts, and more sorry about the fish who died in the heat wave. We had that wave in August, and I had my tanks constantly on 30 - 32 C unless the AC was ON. Yet all I lost was one common pleco "who -by the way- was in the coolest tank so I don't think he died of heat". All the other fish, including the Guppies who usually are the first victims of heat, seem totally fine with the help of the ice bottles and the AC. My Betta lives in the warmest tank, and he says hi! Noura <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/49117;_ylc=X3oDMTJydHNodj BtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzQ5MT E3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyODMxNjg3NzQ-> Re: Warm water FW fish Posted by: "eldred lim" <mailto:eldredsawk@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Warm%20water%20FW%20fish> eldredsawk@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/limesawk> limesawk Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:17 am (PDT) Hi Noura, Greetings from Malaysia. Any curious question... what is the average ambient temperature during the colder months in Syria? Will it also be correct that there is a very wide variance in midday and midnight temperatures? There are automated chilling systems designed for aquariums that can deliver a consistent selected water temperature as an option. The power consumption would be as that of an average 900 liter refrigerator and can treat up to a 500-liter tank. In an air-conditioned room, you will be able to delivery an optimal water temperature to your preferences. It's a bit difficult find a quality chiller in my city here so one option I am considering is to have a refrigerator fabricator to custom-make it. We suffered a heat wave last July. That cause the water temperatures in our tanks to rise up to 31'C and subsequently lost many of our breeders. Our most painful loss was our entire collection of wild caught Betta macrostoma(s) so we learn a very good lesson here and conclude that tropical fishes do not necessary mean they can tolerate warm waters. Eldred at <http://ecologicord.blogspot.com> http://ecologicord.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49126	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Thanks Ray Life's a journey. We learn and share what we can. The interesting feature on many wild betta(s) is that by collectors that there is a higher male count to females. In theory, the males should be cheaper to buy but not so in reality. My supplier will only sell in pairs and extra fishes of the same sex are only by earlier request. USD270 for a pair of macs isn't really that expensive for retail. So I believe that this pricing is for F1+ fishes. Thailand produces quite a large number but I rather pay more for a wild-caught fish as many breeders do not practice gene mapping. That means many fishes for sale are in-bred types. <Ray quoted...> Eldred, Sorry to hear about the lose of those species Bettas. For those not entirely familiar with Betta macrostoma, they can retail here in the States at up to $140 each for males, or $270 for a pair. That's a painful loss not only in fish, but financially too. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49127	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!

Hi Ray, Although I have never had a chance to offer myself as lunch to piranhas (maybe after a strong WHISKY, nay... bourbon? Hic!) , I do agree with you that their reputation is over-rated. But however, any persons with cuts or open wounds are STRONGLY advised not to take a dip in piranha infested waters especially in low-level waters on the rising tide. Blood in the water triggers a feeding frenzy and woe is the unfortunate soul(s) who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. No amount of bourbon is gonna fix that. But I think it's okay if you take a pee (I Think, Maybe Not!) in the water. It's different from blood ;-P but I'm not responsible for any missing members if stunt-persons want to push the envelope. But you may attract a pee-pee lover to you... a very small fish capable of dealing you with a fate worse than being eaten by piranha(s). If you get struck by this pee-pee lover (to be named in the next posting), you will receive an extra un-welcomed appendage or two and you'll need more than a whole bottle of bourbon. Hic! Make that two Hic(s)! The second one is for the medics. All species of the Piranha family is banned in Malaysia, including the Silver Dollar, the Pacu and the pee-pee lover. In theory, a license is required from the Wildlife and Fisheries Departments to keep these fishes but the reinforcement on the Silver Dollar and the Pacu is very lax here. Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49128	From: eldred lim	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Hi Noura 18-20'C is pretty normal even in the tropics for highland streams in the early morning hours. Many picnickers will place their canned drinks into pockets of water and when lunch is at hand, the beverage's just served right. Pleco's are tough fishes. Say Hi to your fishes too. Has he been given a name? One of my friends' wife complains that every time she gets too attached to a fish and gives it a name, it turns turtle. (Noura quoted... > In the coast area where I live, there aren't huge differences between dayand night temperatures. But more to the east , in desert-like areas, I believe there are. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49129	From: Ray	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Warm water FW fish

Eldred, It appears now, that I should have mentioned these Betta macrostoma I quoted selling for those prices I stated were for wild fish, so by what you're saying then, that's apparently a good price for them. There are few (none that I've seen yet) if any tank raised B. macrostoma here in the States, probably because any price difference between them and the wild fish is too small to warrant their importation when the preferred wild fish can be bought near the same price when the right exporter is found. Yeah, we live and learn! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> wrote: > > > Thanks Ray > Life's a journey. We learn and share what we can. The interesting feature on many wild betta(s) is that by collectors that there is a higher male count to females. In theory, the males should be cheaper to buy but not so in reality. My supplier will only sell in pairs and extra fishes of the same sex are only by earlier request. USD270 for a pair of macs isn't really that expensive for retail. So I believe that this pricing is for F1+ fishes. Thailand produces quite a large number but I rather pay more for a wild-caught fish as many breeders do not practice gene mapping. That means many fishes for sale are in-bred types. > > > > <Ray quoted...> Eldred, Sorry to hear about the lose of those species Bettas. For those not entirely familiar with Betta macrostoma, they can retail here in the States at up to $140 each for males, or $270 for a pair. That's a painful loss not only in fish, but financially too. Ray > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49130	From: Neal Robbins	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: FossilFish Link Added to Links Section

I added a link to the links section. It is the link to my FossilFish group.     Neal Robbins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49131	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: New poll for AquaticLife

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the AquaticLife group: PetsMart has an ad running in the October, 2010, issue of _Aquarium Fish International_. In it, they claim that, "Our associates can expand your understanding of fish keeping or create a base to build on as your interest grows." Experiences may vary from store to store and, even, month to month, so your opinion may differ from anothers becuase their experince has been different. You may have not been in a PetsMart for years or, even, never. Threfore I hae given you five choices so you can pick the one that most mirrors your experience. This poll will close September 28, 2010, at which time the results will be posted to the list. Do you believe this statement to be: o True o Substantially true o Substantially false o False o No Opinion To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/surveys?id=2632546 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49133	From: Aquatic Life	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: {Off Topic} Yahoo! Groups will get a face-lift!

--- On Tue, 8/31/10, Yahoo! Groups Team <y_groups_team@...> wrote: From: Yahoo! Groups Team <y_groups_team@...> Subject: [moderatorcentral] Yahoo! Groups will get a face-lift! To: moderatorcentral@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 3:08 PM   Dear Moderators: Chances are by now you have read our blog post on August 13th: http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/?p=695 Your continuous feedback and support is vital to our success and that is why we are letting you know before anyone else the details of the exciting upcoming changes. Starting today in the US, we're introducing new features and product updates to Yahoo! Groups. These changes will arrive in phases and will help you communicate and manage your groups more effectively. Here's a quick snapshot of what to expect: •One place to do it all: Stay up-to-date and never a miss a beat with the new homepage. Click here to have a sneek peak: http://bit.ly/a1NLpH •Simplified posting: Easily post messages and photos to your group. Click here to have a sneak peek: http://bit.ly/a1NLpH •Keep up with the conversation: Read and respond to entire conversations effortlessly. Click here to have a sneak peek: http://bit.ly/cIOzvO •Intuitive, faster photo sharing: Share, upload, and view tons of photos in a snap.Click here to have a sneak peek: http://bit.ly/amK52h •Instantly get in touch: Chat with fellow group members without leaving your group. (18 and older only) Click here to have a sneak peek: http://bit.ly/bfJkXW And this is just the beginning of additional enhancements to come. Initially features such as Polls, Files and Links will remain the same, but we'll be improving them too, and adding new things along the way. Think of Yahoo! Groups as your improved home, and discover the beauty of each room as we renovate and add in modern accents. Stay tuned to the blog for news on all the upcoming changes. And please share your feedback on our Suggestion Board and the blog. As Group owners and moderators, your support is especially important to this transition. We hope you are as excited as we are about these upgrades that will allow Yahoo! Groups to continue to be the best place for your communities to live – and thrive – online. Layla & The Yahoo! Groups Team [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49135	From: greychildren	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: new youtube channel open

hi guys i just open a new youtube channel for my tanks"disclamer" I'm not very good with cameras. http://www.youtube.com/user/jaiko1975?feature=mhum please leave some comments

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49136	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: new youtube channel open

Hi Greychildren, I could not get the "like button" to work properly but just to let you know I did like it.   I am also into DVD and live video work and would only offer this.  If you can use a tripod, work from the front or any angle you would like to use but ease or slow up all zoom shots!  You did very well, sharp, clear and very detailed!  That tank looks like Forest!  Fantastic plants! Great Job and thanks for sharing with us------I enjoyed my visit.   Bill --- On Tue, 8/31/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> wrote: From: greychildren <greychildren@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] new youtube channel open To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 8:34 PM hi guys i just open a new youtube channel for my tanks"disclamer" I'm not very good with cameras. http://www.youtube.com/user/jaiko1975?feature=mhum please leave some comments ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49137	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: Save your goldfishes!

Ray, You are talking, I believe about Rosario LaCorte and Lou Hoighne, in Venezuela in 1977, right? It was Lou who got bit in the ankle area, and it took several hours to get to a doctor who patched Lou up. A few months later, Lou went back and fished a 12" piranha out of that pond. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Save your goldfishes! I can appreciate our humor, Eldred < G >. As for Piranhas, there are those who say that their much of their reputation has been fabricated, and that they're really no dangerous at all. There a local collector who also owns a large retail fish store, and who makes several trips to South America each year. On one of those occasions, he made a video while he was filming under water not more than 10 feet away from a school of large Red Belly Piranhas just doing their thing swimming about in their natural habitat among the aquatic plants. He was filming other fish at this time also, but kept returning the camera on the Piranhas during the time (about 20 to 25 minutes) he was filming. It made for very entertaining viewing, and an entirely different prospective on these fish. I wouldn't entirely trust any of them, since we know what they're capable of. A friend of mine whom I gone collecting with (although not for Piranhas) was bitten once, as well as an associate of his on another occasion, but I believe it was in a situation where the water had become low and the fish felt trapped. Still, I remember a number of times seeing nature shows on TV where Piranhas ripped a Capybara (a large S.A. rodent, probably weighing about 40 pounds) down to nothing but bare bones in less than 5 minutes -- I'm sure others have seen it too. There are some who say that was staged, and that it was a dead animal that was cut open in several places to purposely attract the fish to the carcass. I don't think I'd want to take that chance. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, eldred lim <eldredsawk@...> wrote: > > > We can offer our fingers? > Okay Folks... Just kidding. Don't you dare stick your fingers in there! Ray, don't you dare cook ma goose! > > Ideally, you should have more than one specimen as they are active schooling fishes. That will encourage your fishes to be less selective on food and develop the hunting pack mentality. Meats such as raw fish, prawns or even chicken meat with the skin and fats removed and dangled on a piece of nylon string or SS wire is good. After all, in the wild... they do attack live prey such as four-footed animals and birds in the waters usually suffering from cuts and the blood attracts them. > > Some raw fish however, may not be very ideal as (some such as the lizard-fishes) raw fish proteins denature rapidly after the fish dies. Lizard fish proteins denature within hours from the point catch. Raw denatured fish proteins can cause fish resistance to digestion. In a fish-eating-fish world, this is one of the natural peculiarities of Nature in fish nutrition particularly when it comes to marine fishes used as food. > > Unfortunate, when you have carnivores chomping on raw proteins, you'll need to have a good filter system plus very regular partial water changes. Remember, don't stick your fingers in there! Ray's (Moderator!) gonna cut loose ma moose. > > P.S. If readers insists that I put ma fingers in there, I'll offer you some of ma fish fingers which is not too bad a thing that you can make your own, save some money and them goldfishes. It's not very difficult, just a bit of work by scraping the flesh off a (Fresh!) fish fillet and molding the mash into fingers before you steam it on a non-stick tray or mat. Before this stage, multi-vitamins can be added to increase the food value of ma fingers. An egg/ and fish blood run-offs will act as a binder. Most commercial fish fingers will have a binder/ filler (carbs, flours, sugars) and plenty of chemicals (sodium this, sodium that, sodium there) which you do not want. > > Eldred at http://ecologicord.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <DANA AND DAMIAN quoted...> hello to all. i have small aquarium 20 gallons, for my sweet 3 inches long red belly piranha, that i adore hehehe. i would like to know how not give him alive fish. he will only eat small gold fish, so sad for the little fish, im sure there is a way! thank you all. > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49138	From: jaiko	Date: 8/31/2010
Subject: Re: new youtube channel open

thank you very much bill --- On Tue, 8/31/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new youtube channel open To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 10:19 PM   Hi Greychildren, I could not get the "like button" to work properly but just to let you know I did like it.   I am also into DVD and live video work and would only offer this.  If you can use a tripod, work from the front or any angle you would like to use but ease or slow up all zoom shots!  You did very well, sharp, clear and very detailed!  That tank looks like Forest!  Fantastic plants! Great Job and thanks for sharing with us------I enjoyed my visit.   Bill --- On Tue, 8/31/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> wrote: From: greychildren <greychildren@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] new youtube channel open To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 8:34 PM hi guys i just open a new youtube channel for my tanks"disclamer" I'm not very good with cameras. http://www.youtube.com/user/jaiko1975?feature=mhum please leave some comments ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49139	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 9/2/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

Hi All I checked my water again ( I do have the API Master Test Kit) and my Ammonia is probably just above .25 ppm and my Nitrate is 5.0ppm. This is right before my water change. My fish are still dying. I just lost another Danio today. Actually he doesn't seem quite dead yet. He is lying on the bottom of the tank looking horrid. I now have 5 fish on one side, one beta and two frogs on the other. I don't want to add anymore fish until things stabilize but honestly I think they are all going to die :( --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > The next thing to try is another water change say every 4 days.  Make > sure there is no stress to the fish.  It may be your tank is crowded a bit. > Did you have this trouble BEFORE or AFTER you added those new fish? Also remember that with that divider in there, it does cut the swimming room. >   > Bill > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 4:18 PM > > > > > I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons.  I vaccum the gravel at that time. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > My first question would be:  "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"? > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > > > > Hi all > > > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > > > Here is my info > > > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > > > pH 7.4 > > Ammonia 0ppm > > Nitrite 0ppm > > Nitrate 0ppm > > > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider.  In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus.  One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday.  I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really.  And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week.  I am growing algae right now. > > > > Any thoughts?  Thanks for your help! > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49140	From: Ray	Date: 9/2/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

Twin, You neglected to give us your Nitrite reading this time. Can you please supply us with that number? Your water temperature is never to be overlooked either, even though it might not seem relevant to the problem. While I understand you vacuum the gravel, as per your first post, I haven't seen any answer to my question several weeks ago about whether you deep clean/vacuum the gravel. After six months of having the tank set up, and with the possibility of excess food (and waste) getting deep down into the substrate, there could be pockets of noxious gases building up, along with anaerobic bacteria and there adverse influence on the water column. Without your having any live plants, it should be fairly easy for you to deep clean the gravel. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > Hi All > > I checked my water again ( I do have the API Master Test Kit) and my Ammonia is probably just above .25 ppm and my Nitrate is 5.0ppm. This is right before my water change. My fish are still dying. I just lost another Danio today. Actually he doesn't seem quite dead yet. He is lying on the bottom of the tank looking horrid. I now have 5 fish on one side, one beta and two frogs on the other. I don't want to add anymore fish until things stabilize but honestly I think they are all going to die :( > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > The next thing to try is another water change say every 4 days. Make > > sure there is no stress to the fish. It may be your tank is crowded a bit. > > Did you have this trouble BEFORE or AFTER you added those new fish? Also remember that with that divider in there, it does cut the swimming room. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 4:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons. I vaccum the gravel at that time. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > My first question would be: "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > > > > > Here is my info > > > > > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > > > > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > > > > > pH 7.4 > > > Ammonia 0ppm > > > Nitrite 0ppm > > > Nitrate 0ppm > > > > > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > > > > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > > > > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I am growing algae right now. > > > > > > Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49141	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 9/2/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

I thought vaccuming was "deep cleaning" the gravel--what else should I be doing? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Twin, You neglected to give us your Nitrite reading this time. Can you please supply us with that number? Your water temperature is never to be overlooked either, even though it might not seem relevant to the problem. While I understand you vacuum the gravel, as per your first post, I haven't seen any answer to my question several weeks ago about whether you deep clean/vacuum the gravel. After six months of having the tank set up, and with the possibility of excess food (and waste) getting deep down into the substrate, there could be pockets of noxious gases building up, along with anaerobic bacteria and there adverse influence on the water column. Without your having any live plants, it should be fairly easy for you to deep clean the gravel. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > Hi All > > > > I checked my water again ( I do have the API Master Test Kit) and my Ammonia is probably just above .25 ppm and my Nitrate is 5.0ppm. This is right before my water change. My fish are still dying. I just lost another Danio today. Actually he doesn't seem quite dead yet. He is lying on the bottom of the tank looking horrid. I now have 5 fish on one side, one beta and two frogs on the other. I don't want to add anymore fish until things stabilize but honestly I think they are all going to die :( > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > The next thing to try is another water change say every 4 days. Make > > > sure there is no stress to the fish. It may be your tank is crowded a bit. > > > Did you have this trouble BEFORE or AFTER you added those new fish? Also remember that with that divider in there, it does cut the swimming room. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 4:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons. I vaccum the gravel at that time. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > My first question would be: "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > > > > > > > Here is my info > > > > > > > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > > > > > > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > > > > > > > pH 7.4 > > > > Ammonia 0ppm > > > > Nitrite 0ppm > > > > Nitrate 0ppm > > > > > > > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > > > > > > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > > > > > > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I am growing algae right now. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49142	From: Ray	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

If you are actually "deep cleaning" your gravel, then this is fine. To many hobbyists, vacuuming the gravel is just that -- running the vacuum over the surface of the gravel or perhaps 1/4" to 1/2" down into it -- or it some cases not even making contact with the gravel but instead staying just a bit above the gravel cleaning up as much of the debris found on the surface without picking up any gravel to avoid losing any of it up the hose. I'm assuming too, that you may be using a Python water mover to vacuum your gravel, only as that's what many people find as being best to perform this maintenance procedure. You may wish to tell us if you have another method that you're presently using, that works well for you. Deep Cleaning is thrusting the Python's wide gravel cleaner attachment down into the gravel at least several inches to remove any of that debris which has fallen that far down into the substrate -- and it will fall down into it at least that far over time. This needs to be removed periodically, on a more or less regular basis, but does not need to be done weekly. You'll notice, that the gravel will be drawn up into the wide-mouthed attachment, suspended and tumbled in the water as the debris is being drawn out. Deep Cleaning can be done monthly (or even every 6 weeks or so if the bioload is light -- depending on the amount of fish and how much you feed them), although regular surface cleaning of the gravel should be done weekly -- preferably, doing only one half of the tank at a time, alternating every week so that each half is cleaned off every other week. This helps preserve the nitrifying bacteria that resides on the surface of the surface of the gravel and perhaps 1/4" or so down into it (wherever oxygenated water can reach). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > I thought vaccuming was "deep cleaning" the gravel--what else should I be doing? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Twin, You neglected to give us your Nitrite reading this time. Can you please supply us with that number? Your water temperature is never to be overlooked either, even though it might not seem relevant to the problem. While I understand you vacuum the gravel, as per your first post, I haven't seen any answer to my question several weeks ago about whether you deep clean/vacuum the gravel. After six months of having the tank set up, and with the possibility of excess food (and waste) getting deep down into the substrate, there could be pockets of noxious gases building up, along with anaerobic bacteria and there adverse influence on the water column. Without your having any live plants, it should be fairly easy for you to deep clean the gravel. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi All > > > > > > I checked my water again ( I do have the API Master Test Kit) and my Ammonia is probably just above .25 ppm and my Nitrate is 5.0ppm. This is right before my water change. My fish are still dying. I just lost another Danio today. Actually he doesn't seem quite dead yet. He is lying on the bottom of the tank looking horrid. I now have 5 fish on one side, one beta and two frogs on the other. I don't want to add anymore fish until things stabilize but honestly I think they are all going to die :( > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The next thing to try is another water change say every 4 days. Make > > > > sure there is no stress to the fish. It may be your tank is crowded a bit. > > > > Did you have this trouble BEFORE or AFTER you added those new fish? Also remember that with that divider in there, it does cut the swimming room. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 4:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons. I vaccum the gravel at that time. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My first question would be: "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > > > > > > > > > Here is my info > > > > > > > > > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > > > > > > > > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > > > > > > > > > pH 7.4 > > > > > Ammonia 0ppm > > > > > Nitrite 0ppm > > > > > Nitrate 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > > > > > > > > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > > > > > > > > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I am growing algae right now. > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49143	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

Twin, I think Ray was unclear about how deeply you clean the gravel, not whether you are doing it or not. Some people call it a gravel vac and barely skim the surface of the gravel bed, rather than the "proper" way by getting down to the bottom of the tank. How deep is the gravel in your tank? Can I ask how many fish you added at a time, and how often over the course of the 6 month life of the tank have you added fish? Also, how much are you feeding them? Can you see food falling to the bottom when you feed? How long does it take before all of the food is eaten by the fish? What type of filter are you running on this tank? (I apologize if this is a repeat question, I didn't see it anywhere) What kind of filter media is in the filter, and how often are you cleaning it/replacing the cartridge? Do you rinse the filter media, if so, how often and what do you rinse it in (tap water or tank water)? Sorry for so many questions, but all of these things can contribute to the problem you are having. If I was confident the problem was simply water quality I would be suggesting some filter media that could help your fish get through until things stabilize... but there may be other issues going on in your tank that we have yet to identify. With your current reading of .25 ammonia, I would suggest a 1 gallon water change each day to help get the fish through to the end of your cycle, as it sounds so far as if you are not quite there yet. (that is why the nitrite reading is so important... knowing where that is at we can better determine if the tank is cycling or if it is just being overwhelmed with waste beyond what the total bacteria population can handle) The other thing I can suggest for you that will help is to get more decor into the tank, or plants (live or fake no matter). The more surface area you have in the tank the more places there are for bacteria to grow to break down the waste. There is no such thing as a tank that is too crowded with decor... if it will fit in there it will serve some benefit. Lava rock and tufa rock are great for this purpose because they are so porous, (providing lots of surface area for bacteria) and that also makes them less expensive than most other rock types for aquarium decor (because rock is sold by weight, being porous keeps the weight down). I look forward to seeing your nitrite level... that may lend a lot of answers. Best of luck to you with your fish. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > I thought vaccuming was "deep cleaning" the gravel--what else should I be doing? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Twin, You neglected to give us your Nitrite reading this time. Can you please supply us with that number? Your water temperature is never to be overlooked either, even though it might not seem relevant to the problem. While I understand you vacuum the gravel, as per your first post, I haven't seen any answer to my question several weeks ago about whether you deep clean/vacuum the gravel. After six months of having the tank set up, and with the possibility of excess food (and waste) getting deep down into the substrate, there could be pockets of noxious gases building up, along with anaerobic bacteria and there adverse influence on the water column. Without your having any live plants, it should be fairly easy for you to deep clean the gravel. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi All > > > > > > I checked my water again ( I do have the API Master Test Kit) and my Ammonia is probably just above .25 ppm and my Nitrate is 5.0ppm. This is right before my water change. My fish are still dying. I just lost another Danio today. Actually he doesn't seem quite dead yet. He is lying on the bottom of the tank looking horrid. I now have 5 fish on one side, one beta and two frogs on the other. I don't want to add anymore fish until things stabilize but honestly I think they are all going to die :( > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The next thing to try is another water change say every 4 days. Make > > > > sure there is no stress to the fish. It may be your tank is crowded a bit. > > > > Did you have this trouble BEFORE or AFTER you added those new fish? Also remember that with that divider in there, it does cut the swimming room. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 4:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons. I vaccum the gravel at that time. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My first question would be: "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > > > > > > > > > Here is my info > > > > > > > > > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > > > > > > > > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > > > > > > > > > pH 7.4 > > > > > Ammonia 0ppm > > > > > Nitrite 0ppm > > > > > Nitrate 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > > > > > > > > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > > > > > > > > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I am growing algae right now. > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49144	From: caroline cormier	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

gad..maybe the tank is toooooooo clean. caroline ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 5:23:51 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish If you are actually "deep cleaning" your gravel, then this is fine. To many hobbyists, vacuuming the gravel is just that -- running the vacuum over the surface of the gravel or perhaps 1/4" to 1/2" down into it -- or it some cases not even making contact with the gravel but instead staying just a bit above the gravel cleaning up as much of the debris found on the surface without picking up any gravel to avoid losing any of it up the hose. I'm assuming too, that you may be using a Python water mover to vacuum your gravel, only as that's what many people find as being best to perform this maintenance procedure. You may wish to tell us if you have another method that you're presently using, that works well for you. Deep Cleaning is thrusting the Python's wide gravel cleaner attachment down into the gravel at least several inches to remove any of that debris which has fallen that far down into the substrate -- and it will fall down into it at least that far over time. This needs to be removed periodically, on a more or less regular basis, but does not need to be done weekly. You'll notice, that the gravel will be drawn up into the wide-mouthed attachment, suspended and tumbled in the water as the debris is being drawn out. Deep Cleaning can be done monthly (or even every 6 weeks or so if the bioload is light -- depending on the amount of fish and how much you feed them), although regular surface cleaning of the gravel should be done weekly -- preferably, doing only one half of the tank at a time, alternating every week so that each half is cleaned off every other week. This helps preserve the nitrifying bacteria that resides on the surface of the surface of the gravel and perhaps 1/4" or so down into it (wherever oxygenated water can reach). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > I thought vaccuming was "deep cleaning" the gravel--what else should I be >doing? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Twin, You neglected to give us your Nitrite reading this time. Can you >please supply us with that number? Your water temperature is never to be >overlooked either, even though it might not seem relevant to the problem. While >I understand you vacuum the gravel, as per your first post, I haven't seen any >answer to my question several weeks ago about whether you deep clean/vacuum the >gravel. After six months of having the tank set up, and with the possibility of >excess food (and waste) getting deep down into the substrate, there could be >pockets of noxious gases building up, along with anaerobic bacteria and there >adverse influence on the water column. Without your having any live plants, it >should be fairly easy for you to deep clean the gravel. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi All > > > > > > I checked my water again ( I do have the API Master Test Kit) and my >Ammonia is probably just above .25 ppm and my Nitrate is 5.0ppm. This is right >before my water change. My fish are still dying. I just lost another Danio >today. Actually he doesn't seem quite dead yet. He is lying on the bottom of >the tank looking horrid. I now have 5 fish on one side, one beta and two frogs >on the other. I don't want to add anymore fish until things stabilize but >honestly I think they are all going to die :( > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The next thing to try is another water change say every 4 days. Make > > > > sure there is no stress to the fish. It may be your tank is crowded a >bit. > > > > Did you have this trouble BEFORE or AFTER you added those new fish? Also >remember that with that divider in there, it does cut the swimming room. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying >fish > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 4:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons. I >vaccum the gravel at that time. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > My first question would be: "Esactly how much water are you changing >and when"? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying >fish > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty >solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed >that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > > > > > > > > > Here is my info > > > > > > > > > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live >plants > > > > > > > > > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > > > > > > > > > pH 7.4 > > > > > Ammonia 0ppm > > > > > Nitrite 0ppm > > > > > Nitrate 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that >section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > > > > > > > > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 >guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. >I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I >can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not >swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > > > > > > > > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I >am growing algae right now. > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49145	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Questions about fish deaths

Okay so I lost about 10 fish this morning. I did a water change and used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a lot of plant matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may have removed too much and that would cause fish deaths? This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a year now, so I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes in my 55 gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it was the water change that my water company made (using chloramines instead of just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. I did add new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night too). I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly concerned as to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish were gasping at the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen problem in the water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to cause more surface agitation as well. My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good condition (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year old I think), so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly I hate all these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or knock them on the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, LOL. I'm surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I want an electric test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will replace the new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many fish, from what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I lost. Lost 2 of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside down catfish that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and platties. I hope I didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily planted tank. I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought too, but I don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour last night after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the fish were all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their deaths didn't happen until this morning when the lights came back on. Hubby said my severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch at about 10:30 am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was on the bottom of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on at 8:30am. I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I doubt they have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test with if you guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't cycling or anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of my oldest fish were in that tank :( Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49146	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Sounds like suffocation to me, or heater malfunction - too hot. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 12:41:02 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths Okay so I lost about 10 fish this morning. I did a water change and used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a lot of plant matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may have removed too much and that would cause fish deaths? This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a year now, so I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes in my 55 gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it was the water change that my water company made (using chloramines instead of just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. I did add new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night too). I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly concerned as to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish were gasping at the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen problem in the water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to cause more surface agitation as well. My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good condition (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year old I think), so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly I hate all these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or knock them on the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, LOL. I'm surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I want an electric test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will replace the new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many fish, from what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I lost. Lost 2 of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside down catfish that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and platties. I hope I didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily planted tank. I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought too, but I don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour last night after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the fish were all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their deaths didn't happen until this morning when the lights came back on. Hubby said my severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch at about 10:30 am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was on the bottom of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on at 8:30am. I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I doubt they have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test with if you guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't cycling or anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of my oldest fish were in that tank :( Amber ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49147	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

The temperature was fine, so wasn't a heater malfunction... So would they suffocate due to all the plants I removed? This is my high flow tank so there are more powerheads/filters than on a "normal" fish tank, the water in this tank gets cycled over 20 times an hour. Amber On 9/3/2010 12:00 PM, Laurie Alaimo wrote: > > Sounds like suffocation to me, or heater malfunction - too hot. > > ~ Laurie > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 12:41:02 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish this morning. I did a water change and > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a lot of plant > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may have removed > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a year now, so > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes in my 55 > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it was the > water change that my water company made (using chloramines instead of > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. I did add > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night too). > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly concerned as > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish were gasping at > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen problem in the > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to cause more > surface agitation as well. > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good condition > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year old I think), > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly I hate all > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or knock them on > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, LOL. I'm > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I want an electric > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will replace the > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many fish, from > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I lost. Lost 2 > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside down catfish > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and platties. I hope I > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily planted tank. > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought too, but I > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour last night > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the fish were > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their deaths didn't > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. Hubby said my > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch at about 10:30 > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was on the bottom > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on at 8:30am. > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I doubt they > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test with if you > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't cycling or > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of my oldest fish > were in that tank :( > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49148	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Well I didn't lose my Paradise gourami, he's still in there, chasing the platty fry. So as far as I can tell it mostly affected the platties and guppies. I lost 1 upside down catfish and 2 of my giant danio's (all of those 3 were new fish), my severum died, and I just lost another platty in the last hour. I turned on some bubbles but it's bigger bubbles for now (my old bubble ornament doesn't produce bubbles anymore I think it's plugged up or something), in case it's a low oxygen problem from removing too many plants last night. Perhaps the CO2 built up from the fish and the plants didn't start using it fast enough so they died from CO2? Just a guess on my end, I could be way off, LOL. My botia kubotai are still doing great, they seem to be much hardier than everything I've read about them. Or perhaps they do a little surface breathing? Whatever seems to be the problem doesn't seem to be affecting any of the surface breathers. My cories are fine, my pleco's are all fine, my gourami was fine. I also noticed my talking catfish out and about, but not sure if he's just a slow death or not, he was still active though. I haven't seen my other 2 upside down catfish though, so perhaps they're dead as well, it's very hard to tell since they were good hiders before they died. I haven't spotted my hillstream loach yet... Hope I didn't lose the little guy been raising him since birth. Amber > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 12:41:02 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish this morning. I did a water change and > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a lot of plant > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may have removed > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a year now, so > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes in my 55 > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it was the > water change that my water company made (using chloramines instead of > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. I did add > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night too). > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly concerned as > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish were gasping at > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen problem in the > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to cause more > surface agitation as well. > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good condition > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year old I think), > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly I hate all > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or knock them on > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, LOL. I'm > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I want an electric > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will replace the > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many fish, from > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I lost. Lost 2 > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside down catfish > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and platties. I hope I > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily planted tank. > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought too, but I > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour last night > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the fish were > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their deaths didn't > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. Hubby said my > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch at about 10:30 > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was on the bottom > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on at 8:30am. > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I doubt they > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test with if you > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't cycling or > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of my oldest fish > were in that tank :( > > Amber > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49149	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Hi Amber,   BUT--------------------------------------------------------------------- You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks did you?  Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125?  May I consider they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the contrary!  A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some mysterious aliment.   Bill --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM >   Okay so I lost about 10 fish > this morning. I did a water change and > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > lot of plant > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > have removed > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > year now, so > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > in my 55 > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > was the > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > instead of > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > I did add > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > too). > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > concerned as > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > were gasping at > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > problem in the > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > cause more > surface agitation as well. > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > condition > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > old I think), > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > I hate all > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > knock them on > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > LOL. I'm > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > want an electric > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > replace the > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > fish, from > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > lost. Lost 2 > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > down catfish > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > platties. I hope I > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > planted tank. > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > too, but I > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > last night > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > fish were > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > deaths didn't > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > Hubby said my > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > at about 10:30 > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > on the bottom > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > at 8:30am. > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > doubt they > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > with if you > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > cycling or > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > my oldest fish > were in that tank :( > > Amber > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49150	From: twin_chicken_mama	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

I think then that I may be "deep cleaning" at least a bit of the tank each time I clean. I just use a syphon hose and a bucket--not too high tech. I stick the vaccum all the way down in the gravel and trust me, lots of crud comes up. I have seven year old twins, this is "their" tank and they probably overfeed when I'm not looking. I am now down to 6 fish and 2 frogs. I think I am going to keep it this way until I have some time without anything dying. Then I may add one guppy and leave it at that. I tried live plants but the kids picked out these fern like things that were messy and broke apart easily, and I figured that was making it worse. I may try a smooth leaved plant in the future. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > If you are actually "deep cleaning" your gravel, then this is fine. To many hobbyists, vacuuming the gravel is just that -- running the vacuum over the surface of the gravel or perhaps 1/4" to 1/2" down into it -- or it some cases not even making contact with the gravel but instead staying just a bit above the gravel cleaning up as much of the debris found on the surface without picking up any gravel to avoid losing any of it up the hose. > > I'm assuming too, that you may be using a Python water mover to vacuum your gravel, only as that's what many people find as being best to perform this maintenance procedure. You may wish to tell us if you have another method that you're presently using, that works well for you. > > Deep Cleaning is thrusting the Python's wide gravel cleaner attachment down into the gravel at least several inches to remove any of that debris which has fallen that far down into the substrate -- and it will fall down into it at least that far over time. This needs to be removed periodically, on a more or less regular basis, but does not need to be done weekly. You'll notice, that the gravel will be drawn up into the wide-mouthed attachment, suspended and tumbled in the water as the debris is being drawn out. > > Deep Cleaning can be done monthly (or even every 6 weeks or so if the bioload is light -- depending on the amount of fish and how much you feed them), although regular surface cleaning of the gravel should be done weekly -- preferably, doing only one half of the tank at a time, alternating every week so that each half is cleaned off every other week. This helps preserve the nitrifying bacteria that resides on the surface of the surface of the gravel and perhaps 1/4" or so down into it (wherever oxygenated water can reach). Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > I thought vaccuming was "deep cleaning" the gravel--what else should I be doing? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Twin, You neglected to give us your Nitrite reading this time. Can you please supply us with that number? Your water temperature is never to be overlooked either, even though it might not seem relevant to the problem. While I understand you vacuum the gravel, as per your first post, I haven't seen any answer to my question several weeks ago about whether you deep clean/vacuum the gravel. After six months of having the tank set up, and with the possibility of excess food (and waste) getting deep down into the substrate, there could be pockets of noxious gases building up, along with anaerobic bacteria and there adverse influence on the water column. Without your having any live plants, it should be fairly easy for you to deep clean the gravel. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi All > > > > > > > > I checked my water again ( I do have the API Master Test Kit) and my Ammonia is probably just above .25 ppm and my Nitrate is 5.0ppm. This is right before my water change. My fish are still dying. I just lost another Danio today. Actually he doesn't seem quite dead yet. He is lying on the bottom of the tank looking horrid. I now have 5 fish on one side, one beta and two frogs on the other. I don't want to add anymore fish until things stabilize but honestly I think they are all going to die :( > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The next thing to try is another water change say every 4 days. Make > > > > > sure there is no stress to the fish. It may be your tank is crowded a bit. > > > > > Did you have this trouble BEFORE or AFTER you added those new fish? Also remember that with that divider in there, it does cut the swimming room. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 4:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons. I vaccum the gravel at that time. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My first question would be: "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is my info > > > > > > > > > > > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > > > > > > > > > > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > > > > > > > > > > > pH 7.4 > > > > > > Ammonia 0ppm > > > > > > Nitrite 0ppm > > > > > > Nitrate 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > > > > > > > > > > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I am growing algae right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49151	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other tanks later. I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used up from the plants as fast as it normally would. How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. Amber On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I consider > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > mysterious aliment. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > this morning. I did a water change and > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > lot of plant > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > have removed > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > year now, so > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > in my 55 > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > was the > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > instead of > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > I did add > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > too). > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > concerned as > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > were gasping at > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > problem in the > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > cause more > > surface agitation as well. > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > condition > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > old I think), > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > I hate all > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > knock them on > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > LOL. I'm > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > want an electric > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > replace the > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > fish, from > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > lost. Lost 2 > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > down catfish > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > platties. I hope I > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > planted tank. > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > too, but I > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > last night > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > fish were > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > deaths didn't > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > Hubby said my > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > at about 10:30 > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > on the bottom > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > at 8:30am. > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > doubt they > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > with if you > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > cycling or > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > my oldest fish > > were in that tank :( > > > > Amber > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49152	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Well you got me on that one but if enough plants were removed to disturb the balance of that tank then anything is possible. But then, with the filtration in good shape and you already said, the tank is running and well cycled, the only thing left would be a full water test work-up. Maybe it could point you in the right direction? YOu know as well as I do, that they didn't die from nothing. Bill --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 8:26 PM >   I'm bad about quarantining my > fish, every time I've done that they've > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were > added to the > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over > a weeks time > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... > it's only > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia > kubotai are > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy > just like > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a > scaleless > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The > 125 gallon > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to > one, as that's > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed > to my other > tanks later. > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too > much into > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened > happened over > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 > build up from > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to > not get used > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in > any other tanks > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the > 125? May I consider > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled > tank does not > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually > quite the > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good > candidate for some > > mysterious aliment. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > deaths > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I > removed a > > > lot of plant > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible > that I may > > > have removed > > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running > for over a > > > year now, so > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did > water changes > > > in my 55 > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I > don't think it > > > was the > > > water change that my water company made (using > chloramines > > > instead of > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water > conditioner. > > > I did add > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those > last night > > > too). > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm > slightly > > > concerned as > > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all > the fish > > > were gasping at > > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an > oxygen > > > problem in the > > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the > surface to > > > cause more > > > surface agitation as well. > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still > in good > > > condition > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over > a year > > > old I think), > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank > with. Honestly > > > I hate all > > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose > them or > > > knock them on > > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass > tubes, > > > LOL. I'm > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials > yet. I > > > want an electric > > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, > LOL. > > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if > they will > > > replace the > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss > of so many > > > fish, from > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and > platties that I > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the > upside > > > down catfish > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies > and > > > platties. I hope I > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a > heavily > > > planted tank. > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that > I bought > > > too, but I > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a > half hour > > > last night > > > after I finished my water changes and filter > cleanings, the > > > fish were > > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever > caused their > > > deaths didn't > > > happen until this morning when the lights came > back on. > > > Hubby said my > > > severum was up at the surface when he came home > for lunch > > > at about 10:30 > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the > severum was > > > on the bottom > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights > come on > > > at 8:30am. > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test > kit but I > > > doubt they > > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get > those to test > > > with if you > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank > isn't > > > cycling or > > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, > most of > > > my oldest fish > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49153	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Amber, The CO2 theory doesn't sound quite right to me. I run pressurized CO2 in all my (densely planted) tanks so my levels are really high all the time, and then sometimes I have to pull out all the plants to catch some fish, and usually when I do this I don't get time to put the plants back for about twelve hours or so. This means the water is sitting there with super-high CO2 (my indicator is in the light green to yellow range which is the highest) and no plants. Although I run my filters close to the waterline I have no airstones or bubblers. I've done this about twenty or more times and never seen a fish gasp from it or die. Is it possible that you dug up something funky from the gravel when you pulled out the plants and there was a bacterial release? Did the plants smell bad at all? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Sep 3, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that > they've > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added > to the > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks > time > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my > other > tanks later. > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get > used > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: >> >> Hi Amber, >> >> BUT---------------------------------------------------------- >> You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks >> did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I >> consider >> they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not >> mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the >> contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some >> mysterious aliment. >> >> Bill >> >> --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >>> 40yahoogroups.com> >>> Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM >>> Okay so I lost about 10 fish >>> this morning. I did a water change and >>> used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a >>> lot of plant >>> matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may >>> have removed >>> too much and that would cause fish deaths? >>> This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a >>> year now, so >>> I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes >>> in my 55 >>> gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it >>> was the >>> water change that my water company made (using chloramines >>> instead of >>> just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. >>> I did add >>> new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night >>> too). >>> I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly >>> concerned as >>> to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish >>> were gasping at >>> the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen >>> problem in the >>> water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to >>> cause more >>> surface agitation as well. >>> My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good >>> condition >>> (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year >>> old I think), >>> so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly >>> I hate all >>> these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or >>> knock them on >>> the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, >>> LOL. I'm >>> surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I >>> want an electric >>> test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. >>> I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will >>> replace the >>> new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many >>> fish, from >>> what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I >>> lost. Lost 2 >>> of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside >>> down catfish >>> that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and >>> platties. I hope I >>> didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily >>> planted tank. >>> I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought >>> too, but I >>> don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. >>> What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour >>> last night >>> after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the >>> fish were >>> all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their >>> deaths didn't >>> happen until this morning when the lights came back on. >>> Hubby said my >>> severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch >>> at about 10:30 >>> am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was >>> on the bottom >>> of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on >>> at 8:30am. >>> I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I >>> doubt they >>> have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test >>> with if you >>> guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't >>> cycling or >>> anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of >>> my oldest fish >>> were in that tank :( >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when >>> replying, Thank You. >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is >>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of >>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new >>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >>> , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >>> >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by >>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. >>> >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> >>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a >>> time in a single email >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> >>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to >>> read messages on the group and post replies. >>> >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> >>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49154	From: Ray	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish

Well, I think it's safe to say we found the answer to your problem. As the object of deep cleaning your gravel is to keep it clean and free enough from rotting organic debris (uneaten fish food) to be able to safely support fish without the water becoming toxic to them -- as long as you constantly come up with lots of crud even after you've cleaned it fairly recently, you'll never be able to properly support fish in this tank as long as the twins keep overfeeding them. I had just assumed that you might have known that overfeeding fish is one of the major causes of fish deaths. Since you're doing your share of trying to keep the tank clean by properly deep cleaning the gravel as part of its maintenance, I commend yuo for that, as that's part of what's actually needed. But if you keep coming up with loads of crud despite all your cleaning efforts, this shows that uneaten food is being built up in the gravel almost as fast as you remove it -- and for LOTS of crud to keep coming up each time, it shows your gravel may well be saturated with uneaten food (or at least there's always a good quantity of it being added to the gravel even though you keep striving to remove it). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@...> wrote: > > I think then that I may be "deep cleaning" at least a bit of the tank each time I clean. I just use a syphon hose and a bucket--not too high tech. I stick the vaccum all the way down in the gravel and trust me, lots of crud comes up. I have seven year old twins, this is "their" tank and they probably overfeed when I'm not looking. I am now down to 6 fish and 2 frogs. I think I am going to keep it this way until I have some time without anything dying. Then I may add one guppy and leave it at that. I tried live plants but the kids picked out these fern like things that were messy and broke apart easily, and I figured that was making it worse. I may try a smooth leaved plant in the future. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > If you are actually "deep cleaning" your gravel, then this is fine. To many hobbyists, vacuuming the gravel is just that -- running the vacuum over the surface of the gravel or perhaps 1/4" to 1/2" down into it -- or it some cases not even making contact with the gravel but instead staying just a bit above the gravel cleaning up as much of the debris found on the surface without picking up any gravel to avoid losing any of it up the hose. > > > > I'm assuming too, that you may be using a Python water mover to vacuum your gravel, only as that's what many people find as being best to perform this maintenance procedure. You may wish to tell us if you have another method that you're presently using, that works well for you. > > > > Deep Cleaning is thrusting the Python's wide gravel cleaner attachment down into the gravel at least several inches to remove any of that debris which has fallen that far down into the substrate -- and it will fall down into it at least that far over time. This needs to be removed periodically, on a more or less regular basis, but does not need to be done weekly. You'll notice, that the gravel will be drawn up into the wide-mouthed attachment, suspended and tumbled in the water as the debris is being drawn out. > > > > Deep Cleaning can be done monthly (or even every 6 weeks or so if the bioload is light -- depending on the amount of fish and how much you feed them), although regular surface cleaning of the gravel should be done weekly -- preferably, doing only one half of the tank at a time, alternating every week so that each half is cleaned off every other week. This helps preserve the nitrifying bacteria that resides on the surface of the surface of the gravel and perhaps 1/4" or so down into it (wherever oxygenated water can reach). Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > I thought vaccuming was "deep cleaning" the gravel--what else should I be doing? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Twin, You neglected to give us your Nitrite reading this time. Can you please supply us with that number? Your water temperature is never to be overlooked either, even though it might not seem relevant to the problem. While I understand you vacuum the gravel, as per your first post, I haven't seen any answer to my question several weeks ago about whether you deep clean/vacuum the gravel. After six months of having the tank set up, and with the possibility of excess food (and waste) getting deep down into the substrate, there could be pockets of noxious gases building up, along with anaerobic bacteria and there adverse influence on the water column. Without your having any live plants, it should be fairly easy for you to deep clean the gravel. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "twin_chicken_mama" <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi All > > > > > > > > > > I checked my water again ( I do have the API Master Test Kit) and my Ammonia is probably just above .25 ppm and my Nitrate is 5.0ppm. This is right before my water change. My fish are still dying. I just lost another Danio today. Actually he doesn't seem quite dead yet. He is lying on the bottom of the tank looking horrid. I now have 5 fish on one side, one beta and two frogs on the other. I don't want to add anymore fish until things stabilize but honestly I think they are all going to die :( > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The next thing to try is another water change say every 4 days. Make > > > > > > sure there is no stress to the fish. It may be your tank is crowded a bit. > > > > > > Did you have this trouble BEFORE or AFTER you added those new fish? Also remember that with that divider in there, it does cut the swimming room. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 4:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I usually change the water once a week and change about 4-5 gallons. I vaccum the gravel at that time. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My first question would be: "Esactly how much water are you changing and when"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: twin_chicken_mama <dmille1276@> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fairly new fish keeper, questions about dying fish > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had my 20 gallon tank for about 6 months now, and after a pretty solid start I've recently had 2 fish die on me (this morning-yuck) and noticed that my fish can seem "lethargic" at times. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is my info > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 20gallon long tank, fully cycled, heated, bio wheel filter, no live plants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most recent water readings (3 days ago) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pH 7.4 > > > > > > > Ammonia 0ppm > > > > > > > Nitrite 0ppm > > > > > > > Nitrate 0ppm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One quarter of the tank is separated by a mesh divider. In that section is a male Betta and 2 dwarf aquatic frogs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other side has 3 long finned danios, one neon tetra, 3 glofish 2 guppies and 2 otocinclus. One guppy and 2 otocinclus are new as of yesterday. I guess their being added could be the reason why the 2 glofish died, but I can't figure out how really. And all of the fish looked sort of "mellow" not swimming around as much lately, before the addition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a gravel substrate, I clean and vaccum usually once a week. I am growing algae right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? Thanks for your help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49155	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Amber, Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your vigorous cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 theory, However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb to CO2 poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first noticed, a definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 level. I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, and I am just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to you, so I will let that person do so. They have my permission. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other tanks later. I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used up from the plants as fast as it normally would. How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. Amber On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I consider > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > mysterious aliment. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > this morning. I did a water change and > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > lot of plant > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > have removed > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > year now, so > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > in my 55 > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > was the > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > instead of > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > I did add > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > too). > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > concerned as > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > were gasping at > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > problem in the > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > cause more > > surface agitation as well. > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > condition > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > old I think), > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > I hate all > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > knock them on > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > LOL. I'm > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > want an electric > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > replace the > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > fish, from > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > lost. Lost 2 > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > down catfish > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > platties. I hope I > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > planted tank. > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > too, but I > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > last night > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > fish were > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > deaths didn't > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > Hubby said my > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > at about 10:30 > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > on the bottom > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > at 8:30am. > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > doubt they > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > with if you > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > cycling or > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > my oldest fish > > were in that tank :( > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49156	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

The plants I pulled out were either cut leaves or floating naja grass/hornwort, so I don't think I stirred anything funky up... I did a deeper cleaning on the 55 gallon tank upstairs and had NO deaths... Perhaps I had a dirty hand? I ran the dip strip test trips and my nitrates were lower but still on the dip strip (typical since I just did a water change), no ammonia no nitrites, my pH was normal (close to 7). I know the dip strips are not as accurate but with my test kit so outdated and the LFS does not sell anything but dip strips, I had no choice there. If the danio's were sick I don't think the illness would have killed so many fish so fast, and all the danio's at the LFS looked in great health. All I know is that I removed a lot of floating plants and did about a 45% water change (which is normal for all of my tanks since my tap water is very close to my tank water parameters). I did even more water changes in the 55 gallon because of all my dirty mystery snails, and as I said no deaths there, so I don't think it's the water change or chloramines and stress coat problem. It's something only with the big tank and took hours to happen over night... The fish were fine yesterday. I added 2 airstones and the platties that were hanging out at the surface have come back down in the tank and are looking more normal... does this help pinpoint anything? Amber On 9/3/2010 4:58 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Amber, > > The CO2 theory doesn't sound quite right to me. I run pressurized CO2 > in all my (densely planted) tanks so my levels are really high all > the time, and then sometimes I have to pull out all the plants to > catch some fish, and usually when I do this I don't get time to put > the plants back for about twelve hours or so. This means the water is > sitting there with super-high CO2 (my indicator is in the light green > to yellow range which is the highest) and no plants. Although I run > my filters close to the waterline I have no airstones or bubblers. > I've done this about twenty or more times and never seen a fish gasp > from it or die. > > Is it possible that you dug up something funky from the gravel when > you pulled out the plants and there was a bacterial release? Did the > plants smell bad at all? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that > > they've > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added > > to the > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks > > time > > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are > > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's > > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my > > other > > tanks later. > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get > > used > > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > >> > >> Hi Amber, > >> > >> BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > >> You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > >> did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I > >> consider > >> they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > >> mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > >> contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > >> mysterious aliment. > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > >>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > >>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > >>> 40yahoogroups.com> > >>> Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > >>> Okay so I lost about 10 fish > >>> this morning. I did a water change and > >>> used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > >>> lot of plant > >>> matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > >>> have removed > >>> too much and that would cause fish deaths? > >>> This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > >>> year now, so > >>> I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > >>> in my 55 > >>> gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > >>> was the > >>> water change that my water company made (using chloramines > >>> instead of > >>> just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > >>> I did add > >>> new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > >>> too). > >>> I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > >>> concerned as > >>> to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > >>> were gasping at > >>> the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > >>> problem in the > >>> water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > >>> cause more > >>> surface agitation as well. > >>> My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > >>> condition > >>> (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > >>> old I think), > >>> so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > >>> I hate all > >>> these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > >>> knock them on > >>> the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > >>> LOL. I'm > >>> surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > >>> want an electric > >>> test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > >>> I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > >>> replace the > >>> new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > >>> fish, from > >>> what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > >>> lost. Lost 2 > >>> of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > >>> down catfish > >>> that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > >>> platties. I hope I > >>> didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > >>> planted tank. > >>> I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > >>> too, but I > >>> don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > >>> What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > >>> last night > >>> after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > >>> fish were > >>> all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > >>> deaths didn't > >>> happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > >>> Hubby said my > >>> severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > >>> at about 10:30 > >>> am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > >>> on the bottom > >>> of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > >>> at 8:30am. > >>> I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > >>> doubt they > >>> have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > >>> with if you > >>> guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > >>> cycling or > >>> anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > >>> my oldest fish > >>> were in that tank :( > >>> > >>> Amber > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > >>> replying, Thank You. > >>> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > >>> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >>> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > >>> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > >>> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > >>> subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >>> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > >>> , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >>> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >>> > >>> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > >>> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > >>> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >>> > >>> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > >>> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > >>> time in a single email > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > >>> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > >>> read messages on the group and post replies. > >>> > >>> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > >>> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49157	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to current residents of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from either badly acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank cleaning. SO something I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process and only something I do on the 125 gallon tank... One thing that was different last night is that when I first started refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little too cold and I had already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I noticed it. So I fixed the water temp to what the tank normally is so the water temp in the tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this little temp fluccuation cause slow deaths? The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water change that I watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they were all eating and foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come until early this morning or sometime last night. The severum was still alive around 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found dead at 11am as well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check my pH at the time as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test kit is over a year old now, I figured it's not going to be very accurate if I haven't used it for a little while and I don't shake it all the time if I'm not using it. Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't have the Q tank set up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. My loss and my money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way a few times ;) LOL. Amber On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your vigorous > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 theory, > However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb to CO2 > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first noticed, a > definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 > level. > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, > and I am > just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to you, so I > will let that person do so. They have my permission. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other > tanks later. > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I > consider > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > > mysterious aliment. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > > lot of plant > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > > have removed > > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > > year now, so > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > > in my 55 > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > > was the > > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > > instead of > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > > I did add > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > > too). > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > > concerned as > > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > > were gasping at > > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > > problem in the > > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > > cause more > > > surface agitation as well. > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > > condition > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > > old I think), > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > > I hate all > > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > > knock them on > > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > > LOL. I'm > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > > want an electric > > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > > replace the > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > > fish, from > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > > down catfish > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > > platties. I hope I > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > > planted tank. > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > > too, but I > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > > last night > > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > > fish were > > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > > deaths didn't > > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > > Hubby said my > > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > > at about 10:30 > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > > on the bottom > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > > at 8:30am. > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > > doubt they > > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > > with if you > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > > cycling or > > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > > my oldest fish > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49158	From: harry perry	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths/Amber

What did you  use for the water change, A bucket. Did you do this water change before the other tanks. Possible something in the bucket or hose. Something on your hands like lotion or perfume?. Sounds like it happened really quick. What kind of filter?. Not under gravel I hope. Harry --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM   I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to current residents of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from either badly acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank cleaning. SO something I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process and only something I do on the 125 gallon tank... One thing that was different last night is that when I first started refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little too cold and I had already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I noticed it. So I fixed the water temp to what the tank normally is so the water temp in the tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this little temp fluccuation cause slow deaths? The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water change that I watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they were all eating and foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come until early this morning or sometime last night. The severum was still alive around 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found dead at 11am as well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check my pH at the time as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test kit is over a year old now, I figured it's not going to be very accurate if I haven't used it for a little while and I don't shake it all the time if I'm not using it. Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't have the Q tank set up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. My loss and my money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way a few times ;) LOL. Amber On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your vigorous > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 theory, > However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb to CO2 > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first noticed, a > definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 > level. > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, > and I am > just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to you, so I > will let that person do so. They have my permission. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other > tanks later. > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I > consider > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > > mysterious aliment. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > > lot of plant > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > > have removed > > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > > year now, so > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > > in my 55 > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > > was the > > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > > instead of > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > > I did add > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > > too). > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > > concerned as > > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > > were gasping at > > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > > problem in the > > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > > cause more > > > surface agitation as well. > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > > condition > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > > old I think), > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > > I hate all > > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > > knock them on > > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > > LOL. I'm > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > > want an electric > > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > > replace the > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > > fish, from > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > > down catfish > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > > platties. I hope I > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > > planted tank. > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > > too, but I > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > > last night > > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > > fish were > > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > > deaths didn't > > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > > Hubby said my > > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > > at about 10:30 > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > > on the bottom > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > > at 8:30am. > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > > doubt they > > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > > with if you > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > > cycling or > > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > > my oldest fish > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49159	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

I feel a little Sherlock Holmsey:) Is it possible there is something not quite perfect with your tap water and that the reason something only goes wrong with the 125 is simply because you have to change and add that much more water? I mean, I know it's the same proportionally, but say there is something like gasoline in your tap and the fish can handle exposure to a certain amount but with all the new water going into the 125 their gills get overwhelmed? Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Sep 3, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to current residents > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from either badly > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank cleaning. SO > something > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process and only > something I > do on the 125 gallon tank... > One thing that was different last night is that when I first started > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little too cold and I had > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I noticed it. So I > fixed > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the water temp in the > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this little temp > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water change that I > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they were all > eating and > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come until early this > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still alive around > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found dead at 11am as > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check my pH at the > time > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test kit is over a > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very accurate if I > haven't > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all the time if I'm > not > using it. > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't have the Q > tank set > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. My loss and my > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way a few > times ;) LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: >> >> Amber, >> >> Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your >> vigorous >> cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 >> theory, >> However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb >> to CO2 >> poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first >> noticed, a >> definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 >> level. >> >> I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, >> and I am >> just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to >> you, so I >> will let that person do so. They have my permission. >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% >> 40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths >> >> I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've >> died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added >> to the >> 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a >> weeks time >> frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only >> affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai >> are >> surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like >> normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless >> fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon >> may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as >> that's >> where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my >> other >> tanks later. >> I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into >> cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over >> night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from >> the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get >> used >> up from the plants as fast as it normally would. >> How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. >> >> Amber >> >> On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: >>> >>> Hi Amber, >>> >>> BUT---------------------------------------------------------- >>> You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks >>> did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I >> consider >>> they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not >>> mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the >>> contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some >>> mysterious aliment. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> >>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> >>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> >>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM >>>> Okay so I lost about 10 fish >>>> this morning. I did a water change and >>>> used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a >>>> lot of plant >>>> matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may >>>> have removed >>>> too much and that would cause fish deaths? >>>> This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a >>>> year now, so >>>> I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes >>>> in my 55 >>>> gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it >>>> was the >>>> water change that my water company made (using chloramines >>>> instead of >>>> just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. >>>> I did add >>>> new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night >>>> too). >>>> I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly >>>> concerned as >>>> to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish >>>> were gasping at >>>> the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen >>>> problem in the >>>> water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to >>>> cause more >>>> surface agitation as well. >>>> My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good >>>> condition >>>> (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year >>>> old I think), >>>> so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly >>>> I hate all >>>> these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or >>>> knock them on >>>> the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, >>>> LOL. I'm >>>> surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I >>>> want an electric >>>> test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. >>>> I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will >>>> replace the >>>> new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many >>>> fish, from >>>> what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I >>>> lost. Lost 2 >>>> of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside >>>> down catfish >>>> that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and >>>> platties. I hope I >>>> didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily >>>> planted tank. >>>> I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought >>>> too, but I >>>> don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. >>>> What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour >>>> last night >>>> after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the >>>> fish were >>>> all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their >>>> deaths didn't >>>> happen until this morning when the lights came back on. >>>> Hubby said my >>>> severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch >>>> at about 10:30 >>>> am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was >>>> on the bottom >>>> of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on >>>> at 8:30am. >>>> I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I >>>> doubt they >>>> have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test >>>> with if you >>>> guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't >>>> cycling or >>>> anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of >>>> my oldest fish >>>> were in that tank :( >>>> >>>> Amber >>>> >>>> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49160	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths/Amber

It didn't happen really quick it happened about 12-14 hours AFTER I did the water change. I use a python hose for my water changes. I siphon the water out into the kitchen sink (using gravity), then I refill it from the sink upstairs (the same sink I use for all my other water changes), using the same python hose that I drain it with. I suppose it's possible that I had something on my hands and forgot to re-wash my hands. I use canister filters on this tank, the tank upstairs has all HOB filters on it, that's the only other difference between all my other tanks... the big tank has 2 canister filters not HOBS. I have always (for over a year now) rinsed my sponges from my filters in the sink so I can get them nice and clean, but I make sure to only rinse the bio-media in removed tank water, not tap water. So that my bacteria doesn't get too affected from the cleaning. Then I refill the canister with tank water and start it up again. I clean all my tanks this way, so nothing different there... No deaths in any of my other tanks. Also I have heavily planted tanks so my plants are mostly my bio filters... That's why I think my problem lies in removing too many plants... Amber On 9/3/2010 5:40 PM, harry perry wrote: > > What did you use for the water change, A bucket. Did you do this water > change before the other tanks. Possible something in the bucket or > hose. Something on your hands like lotion or perfume?. Sounds like it > happened really quick. What kind of filter?. Not under gravel I hope. > > Harry > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to current residents > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from either badly > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank cleaning. SO something > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process and only something I > do on the 125 gallon tank... > One thing that was different last night is that when I first started > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little too cold and I had > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I noticed it. So I fixed > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the water temp in the > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this little temp > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water change that I > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they were all eating and > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come until early this > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still alive around > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found dead at 11am as > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check my pH at the time > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test kit is over a > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very accurate if I haven't > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all the time if I'm not > using it. > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't have the Q tank set > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. My loss and my > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way a few times ;) LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Amber, > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your vigorous > > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 > theory, > > However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb to CO2 > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first noticed, a > > definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 > > level. > > > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, > > and I am > > just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to you, > so I > > will let that person do so. They have my permission. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time > > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are > > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's > > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other > > tanks later. > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used > > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I > > consider > > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > > > mysterious aliment. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > > > lot of plant > > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > > > have removed > > > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > > > year now, so > > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > > > in my 55 > > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > > > was the > > > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > > > instead of > > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > > > I did add > > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > > > too). > > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > > > concerned as > > > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > > > were gasping at > > > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > > > problem in the > > > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > > > cause more > > > > surface agitation as well. > > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > > > condition > > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > > > old I think), > > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > > > I hate all > > > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > > > knock them on > > > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > > > LOL. I'm > > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > > > want an electric > > > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > > > replace the > > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > > > fish, from > > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > > > down catfish > > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > > > platties. I hope I > > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > > > planted tank. > > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > > > too, but I > > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > > > last night > > > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > > > fish were > > > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > > > deaths didn't > > > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > > > Hubby said my > > > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > > > at about 10:30 > > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > > > on the bottom > > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > > > at 8:30am. > > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > > > doubt they > > > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > > > with if you > > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > > > cycling or > > > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > > > my oldest fish > > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49161	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

I have heavy metals and chloramines (they used to only use chlorine but just this month switched to chloramines). Perhaps something they did in the change caused all my deaths. The water guy (manager) no longer answers my emails, LOL. They just changed the water treatment this last month (august), so I suppose I can add that to the theory, I think this was my first water change with the new chloramine treated water... But I added my stress coat (per the instructions on the bottle) before I added the new water, and I always let the water dribble in and cause more surface agitation to out gas anything bad. Amber On 9/3/2010 5:39 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I feel a little Sherlock Holmsey:) Is it possible there is something > not quite perfect with your tap water and that the reason something > only goes wrong with the 125 is simply because you have to change and > add that much more water? I mean, I know it's the same > proportionally, but say there is something like gasoline in your tap > and the fish can handle exposure to a certain amount but with all the > new water going into the 125 their gills get overwhelmed? > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Sep 3, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to current residents > > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from either badly > > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank cleaning. SO > > something > > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process and only > > something I > > do on the 125 gallon tank... > > One thing that was different last night is that when I first started > > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little too cold and I had > > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I noticed it. So I > > fixed > > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the water temp in the > > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this little temp > > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water change that I > > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they were all > > eating and > > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come until early this > > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still alive around > > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found dead at 11am as > > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check my pH at the > > time > > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test kit is over a > > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very accurate if I > > haven't > > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all the time if I'm > > not > > using it. > > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't have the Q > > tank set > > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. My loss and my > > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way a few > > times ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > >> > >> Amber, > >> > >> Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your > >> vigorous > >> cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 > >> theory, > >> However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb > >> to CO2 > >> poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first > >> noticed, a > >> definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 > >> level. > >> > >> I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, > >> and I am > >> just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to > >> you, so I > >> will let that person do so. They have my permission. > >> > >> \\Steve// > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund > >> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > >> 40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > >> > >> I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've > >> died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added > >> to the > >> 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a > >> weeks time > >> frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > >> affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai > >> are > >> surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > >> normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > >> fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > >> may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as > >> that's > >> where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my > >> other > >> tanks later. > >> I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > >> cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > >> night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > >> the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get > >> used > >> up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > >> How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Amber, > >>> > >>> BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > >>> You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > >>> did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I > >> consider > >>> they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > >>> mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > >>> contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > >>> mysterious aliment. > >>> > >>> Bill > >>> > >>> --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > >>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > >> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > >>> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > >>>> Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > >>>> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >>>> Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > >>>> Okay so I lost about 10 fish > >>>> this morning. I did a water change and > >>>> used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > >>>> lot of plant > >>>> matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > >>>> have removed > >>>> too much and that would cause fish deaths? > >>>> This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > >>>> year now, so > >>>> I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > >>>> in my 55 > >>>> gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > >>>> was the > >>>> water change that my water company made (using chloramines > >>>> instead of > >>>> just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > >>>> I did add > >>>> new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > >>>> too). > >>>> I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > >>>> concerned as > >>>> to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > >>>> were gasping at > >>>> the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > >>>> problem in the > >>>> water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > >>>> cause more > >>>> surface agitation as well. > >>>> My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > >>>> condition > >>>> (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > >>>> old I think), > >>>> so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > >>>> I hate all > >>>> these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > >>>> knock them on > >>>> the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > >>>> LOL. I'm > >>>> surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > >>>> want an electric > >>>> test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > >>>> I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > >>>> replace the > >>>> new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > >>>> fish, from > >>>> what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > >>>> lost. Lost 2 > >>>> of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > >>>> down catfish > >>>> that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > >>>> platties. I hope I > >>>> didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > >>>> planted tank. > >>>> I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > >>>> too, but I > >>>> don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > >>>> What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > >>>> last night > >>>> after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > >>>> fish were > >>>> all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > >>>> deaths didn't > >>>> happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > >>>> Hubby said my > >>>> severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > >>>> at about 10:30 > >>>> am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > >>>> on the bottom > >>>> of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > >>>> at 8:30am. > >>>> I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > >>>> doubt they > >>>> have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > >>>> with if you > >>>> guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > >>>> cycling or > >>>> anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > >>>> my oldest fish > >>>> were in that tank :( > >>>> > >>>> Amber > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49162	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Amber you have to re-call, "there was something you did different in that 125".  Also, as I am sure you are aware, Severums are a fairly hardy fish and you have had this one for a while as I recall.  They don't go belly-up easily.  Either your PWC water took a radical pH swing or something but then you also said you did change the 55 at the same time and that tank is OK?   Just so I have this story straight so far, you did the PWC and THEN added the new fish or the new fish first and then the water change later in the same day?   Bill --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM   I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to current residents of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from either badly acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank cleaning. SO something I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process and only something I do on the 125 gallon tank... One thing that was different last night is that when I first started refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little too cold and I had already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I noticed it. So I fixed the water temp to what the tank normally is so the water temp in the tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this little temp fluccuation cause slow deaths? The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water change that I watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they were all eating and foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come until early this morning or sometime last night. The severum was still alive around 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found dead at 11am as well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check my pH at the time as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test kit is over a year old now, I figured it's not going to be very accurate if I haven't used it for a little while and I don't shake it all the time if I'm not using it. Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't have the Q tank set up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. My loss and my money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way a few times ;) LOL. Amber On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your vigorous > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 theory, > However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb to CO2 > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first noticed, a > definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 > level. > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, > and I am > just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to you, so I > will let that person do so. They have my permission. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other > tanks later. > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I > consider > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > > mysterious aliment. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > > lot of plant > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > > have removed > > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > > year now, so > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > > in my 55 > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > > was the > > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > > instead of > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > > I did add > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > > too). > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > > concerned as > > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > > were gasping at > > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > > problem in the > > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > > cause more > > > surface agitation as well. > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > > condition > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > > old I think), > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > > I hate all > > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > > knock them on > > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > > LOL. I'm > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > > want an electric > > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > > replace the > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > > fish, from > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > > down catfish > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > > platties. I hope I > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > > planted tank. > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > > too, but I > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > > last night > > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > > fish were > > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > > deaths didn't > > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > > Hubby said my > > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > > at about 10:30 > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > > on the bottom > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > > at 8:30am. > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > > doubt they > > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > > with if you > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > > cycling or > > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > > my oldest fish > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49163	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Add fish first, some yesterday (just the danio's and the gourami), I added the upside down catfish last week. I did the water change last night hours after adding the new fish. I've had the Severum for over a year, he was a nice big healthy and hardy fish. I guess I don't have to worry about feeding him anymore, LOL. The only difference was the water temp was too cold at first and I refilled a good 20-30 gallons with colder water, then stopped the water and changed it to the right temp. So the tank temps dropped a couple of degrees and them went back to normal. Would that cause a death 12-14 hours later though? Whatever caused these deaths was something that didn't happen right after the water change (the fish were fine after the water change). Amber On 9/3/2010 5:52 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > Amber you have to re-call, "there was something you did different in > that 125". Also, as I am sure you are aware, Severums are a fairly > hardy fish and you have had this one for a while as I recall. They > don't go belly-up easily. > > Either your PWC water took a radical pH swing or something but then > you also said you did change the 55 at the same time and that tank is OK? > > Just so I have this story straight so far, you did the PWC and THEN > added the new fish or the new fish first and then the water change > later in the same day? > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to current residents > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from either badly > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank cleaning. SO something > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process and only something I > do on the 125 gallon tank... > One thing that was different last night is that when I first started > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little too cold and I had > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I noticed it. So I fixed > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the water temp in the > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this little temp > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water change that I > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they were all eating and > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come until early this > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still alive around > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found dead at 11am as > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check my pH at the time > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test kit is over a > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very accurate if I haven't > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all the time if I'm not > using it. > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't have the Q tank set > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. My loss and my > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way a few times ;) LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Amber, > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your vigorous > > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 > theory, > > However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb to CO2 > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first noticed, a > > definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 > > level. > > > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, > > and I am > > just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to you, > so I > > will let that person do so. They have my permission. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time > > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are > > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's > > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other > > tanks later. > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used > > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I > > consider > > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > > > mysterious aliment. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > > > lot of plant > > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > > > have removed > > > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > > > year now, so > > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > > > in my 55 > > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > > > was the > > > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > > > instead of > > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > > > I did add > > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > > > too). > > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > > > concerned as > > > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > > > were gasping at > > > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > > > problem in the > > > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > > > cause more > > > > surface agitation as well. > > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > > > condition > > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > > > old I think), > > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > > > I hate all > > > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > > > knock them on > > > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > > > LOL. I'm > > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > > > want an electric > > > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > > > replace the > > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > > > fish, from > > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > > > down catfish > > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > > > platties. I hope I > > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > > > planted tank. > > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > > > too, but I > > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > > > last night > > > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > > > fish were > > > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > > > deaths didn't > > > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > > > Hubby said my > > > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > > > at about 10:30 > > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > > > on the bottom > > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > > > at 8:30am. > > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > > > doubt they > > > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > > > with if you > > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > > > cycling or > > > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > > > my oldest fish > > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49164	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Yes but even at that temperature, in that large a tank I doubt if would be too critical 80--78 range, especially since you did correct the remaining portion of the water change.  Also I think you would look for the "Ick" right away. Last I remember it would cause the fish to itch or scratch, not gasp at the surface as you indicated.    I am looking toward the water source.  For now, I would not do anymore PWC's until you re-examine that source and run up another water baseline of it.  If for no other reason, that to just rule it out as a possible problem.  Considering your previous remarks about that source itself, they could very well have changed something,and not tell you!   No need in my getting into that test strip business------------API -----vials and all.  Hey! They keep you aggravated don't they?  Cheer-up!  It's always darkest before the dawn, I wear sun glass's alot so I should know.   Bill --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:56 PM >   Add fish first, some yesterday > (just the danio's and the gourami), I > added the upside down catfish last week. I did the water > change last > night hours after adding the new fish. > I've had the Severum for over a year, he was a nice big > healthy and > hardy fish. I guess I don't have to worry about feeding him > anymore, LOL. > The only difference was the water temp was too cold at > first and I > refilled a good 20-30 gallons with colder water, then > stopped the water > and changed it to the right temp. So the tank temps dropped > a couple of > degrees and them went back to normal. Would that cause a > death 12-14 > hours later though? Whatever caused these deaths was > something that > didn't happen right after the water change (the fish were > fine after the > water change). > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 5:52 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Amber you have to re-call, "there was something you > did different in > > that 125". Also, as I am sure you are aware, Severums > are a fairly > > hardy fish and you have had this one for a while as I > recall. They > > don't go belly-up easily. > > > > Either your PWC water took a radical pH swing or > something but then > > you also said you did change the 55 at the same time > and that tank is OK? > > > > Just so I have this story straight so far, you did the > PWC and THEN > > added the new fish or the new fish first and then the > water change > > later in the same day? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > deaths > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM > > > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to > current residents > > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from > either badly > > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank > cleaning. SO something > > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process > and only something I > > do on the 125 gallon tank... > > One thing that was different last night is that when I > first started > > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little > too cold and I had > > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I > noticed it. So I fixed > > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the > water temp in the > > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this > little temp > > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water > change that I > > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they > were all eating and > > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come > until early this > > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still > alive around > > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found > dead at 11am as > > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check > my pH at the time > > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test > kit is over a > > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very > accurate if I haven't > > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all > the time if I'm not > > using it. > > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't > have the Q tank set > > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. > My loss and my > > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way > a few times ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the > surface after your vigorous > > > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I > might lean to the CO2 > > theory, > > > However, it would take more than a few hours for > them to succumb to CO2 > > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the > problem was first noticed, a > > > definitely lower pH than normal could be an > indicator of a higher CO2 > > > level. > > > > > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I > know you know better, > > > and I am > > > just as sure that someone out there is just dying > to give it to you, > > so I > > > will let that person do so. They have my > permission. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > deaths > > > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time > I've done that they've > > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that > were new were added to the > > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a > little over a weeks time > > > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the > problem is... it's only > > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if > my botia kubotai are > > > surface breathers or not but they are very active > and happy just like > > > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They > are also a scaleless > > > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like > ich. The 125 gallon > > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can > get to one, as that's > > > where I typically put new fish and then move them > if needed to my other > > > tanks later. > > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last > night, got too much into > > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever > happened happened over > > > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing > a CO2 build up from > > > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused > the CO2 to not get used > > > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just > bought, in any other tanks > > > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went > into the 125? May I > > > consider > > > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your > QT? A cycled tank does not > > > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, > usually quite the > > > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a > good candidate for some > > > > mysterious aliment. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about > fish deaths > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 > PM > > > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > > > used my water conditioner that I always > use. I removed a > > > > > lot of plant > > > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it > possible that I may > > > > > have removed > > > > > too much and that would cause fish > deaths? > > > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has > been running for over a > > > > > year now, so > > > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. > I did water changes > > > > > in my 55 > > > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, > so I don't think it > > > > > was the > > > > > water change that my water company made > (using chloramines > > > > > instead of > > > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for > my water conditioner. > > > > > I did add > > > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some > of those last night > > > > > too). > > > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which > is why I'm slightly > > > > > concerned as > > > > > to the cause. My Severum died this > morning, all the fish > > > > > were gasping at > > > > > the surface which made me wonder if it > was an oxygen > > > > > problem in the > > > > > water. I turned my power heads more > towards the surface to > > > > > cause more > > > > > surface agitation as well. > > > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if > it's still in good > > > > > condition > > > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit > is now over a year > > > > > old I think), > > > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the > tank with. Honestly > > > > > I hate all > > > > > these little bottles all over the > place, I lose them or > > > > > knock them on > > > > > the floor way too often, not to mention > the glass tubes, > > > > > LOL. I'm > > > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the > test vials yet. I > > > > > want an electric > > > > > test kit that tests all the water > parameters, LOL. > > > > > I'm going out to the fish store today > to see if they will > > > > > replace the > > > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at > the loss of so many > > > > > fish, from > > > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies > and platties that I > > > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, > and 1 of the upside > > > > > down catfish > > > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the > guppies and > > > > > platties. I hope I > > > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell > because it's a heavily > > > > > planted tank. > > > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise > gourami that I bought > > > > > too, but I > > > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in > the tank. > > > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank > for over a half hour > > > > > last night > > > > > after I finished my water changes and > filter cleanings, the > > > > > fish were > > > > > all very happy and looked just fine, > whatever caused their > > > > > deaths didn't > > > > > happen until this morning when the > lights came back on. > > > > > Hubby said my > > > > > severum was up at the surface when he > came home for lunch > > > > > at about 10:30 > > > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get > coffee the severum was > > > > > on the bottom > > > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. > The lights come on > > > > > at 8:30am. > > > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a > new test kit but I > > > > > doubt they > > > > > have anything but the dip strips... I > can get those to test > > > > > with if you > > > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure > the tank isn't > > > > > cycling or > > > > > anything odd. It's typically my most > stable tank, most of > > > > > my oldest fish > > > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49165	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

If it was the water source then my 55 gallon would have fish losses too. It's only the 125 gallon tank that lost fish. I cleaned my 55 gallon more (did 2 PWC's through the span of about 6 hours, and cleaned the gravel a bit around the plants since the snails poop a lot). So I actually cleaned the 55 gallon more than the 125 gallon, except I took more plants out of the 125 gallon while I was refilling the tank. Amber On 9/3/2010 6:14 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes but even at that temperature, in that large a tank I doubt if would > be too critical 80--78 range, especially since you did correct the > remaining portion > of the water change. Also I think you would look for the "Ick" right away. > Last I remember it would cause the fish to itch or scratch, not gasp at > the surface as you indicated. > > I am looking toward the water source. For now, I would not do anymore > PWC's until you re-examine that source and run up another water > baseline of it. If for no other reason, that to just rule it out as a > possible problem. Considering your previous remarks > about that source itself, they could very well have changed > something,and not tell you! > > No need in my getting into that test strip business------------API > -----vials and all. Hey! > They keep you aggravated don't they? Cheer-up! It's always darkest > before the dawn, I wear sun glass's alot so I should know. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:56 PM > > Add fish first, some yesterday > > (just the danio's and the gourami), I > > added the upside down catfish last week. I did the water > > change last > > night hours after adding the new fish. > > I've had the Severum for over a year, he was a nice big > > healthy and > > hardy fish. I guess I don't have to worry about feeding him > > anymore, LOL. > > The only difference was the water temp was too cold at > > first and I > > refilled a good 20-30 gallons with colder water, then > > stopped the water > > and changed it to the right temp. So the tank temps dropped > > a couple of > > degrees and them went back to normal. Would that cause a > > death 12-14 > > hours later though? Whatever caused these deaths was > > something that > > didn't happen right after the water change (the fish were > > fine after the > > water change). > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:52 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Amber you have to re-call, "there was something you > > did different in > > > that 125". Also, as I am sure you are aware, Severums > > are a fairly > > > hardy fish and you have had this one for a while as I > > recall. They > > > don't go belly-up easily. > > > > > > Either your PWC water took a radical pH swing or > > something but then > > > you also said you did change the 55 at the same time > > and that tank is OK? > > > > > > Just so I have this story straight so far, you did the > > PWC and THEN > > > added the new fish or the new fish first and then the > > water change > > > later in the same day? > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > > deaths > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM > > > > > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to > > current residents > > > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from > > either badly > > > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank > > cleaning. SO something > > > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process > > and only something I > > > do on the 125 gallon tank... > > > One thing that was different last night is that when I > > first started > > > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little > > too cold and I had > > > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I > > noticed it. So I fixed > > > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the > > water temp in the > > > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this > > little temp > > > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > > > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water > > change that I > > > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they > > were all eating and > > > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come > > until early this > > > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still > > alive around > > > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found > > dead at 11am as > > > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check > > my pH at the time > > > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test > > kit is over a > > > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very > > accurate if I haven't > > > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all > > the time if I'm not > > > using it. > > > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't > > have the Q tank set > > > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. > > My loss and my > > > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way > > a few times ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the > > surface after your vigorous > > > > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I > > might lean to the CO2 > > > theory, > > > > However, it would take more than a few hours for > > them to succumb to CO2 > > > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the > > problem was first noticed, a > > > > definitely lower pH than normal could be an > > indicator of a higher CO2 > > > > level. > > > > > > > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I > > know you know better, > > > > and I am > > > > just as sure that someone out there is just dying > > to give it to you, > > > so I > > > > will let that person do so. They have my > > permission. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > > deaths > > > > > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time > > I've done that they've > > > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that > > were new were added to the > > > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a > > little over a weeks time > > > > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the > > problem is... it's only > > > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if > > my botia kubotai are > > > > surface breathers or not but they are very active > > and happy just like > > > > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They > > are also a scaleless > > > > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like > > ich. The 125 gallon > > > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can > > get to one, as that's > > > > where I typically put new fish and then move them > > if needed to my other > > > > tanks later. > > > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last > > night, got too much into > > > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever > > happened happened over > > > > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing > > a CO2 build up from > > > > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused > > the CO2 to not get used > > > > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > > > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just > > bought, in any other tanks > > > > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went > > into the 125? May I > > > > consider > > > > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your > > QT? A cycled tank does not > > > > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, > > usually quite the > > > > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a > > good candidate for some > > > > > mysterious aliment. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about > > fish deaths > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 > > PM > > > > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > > > > used my water conditioner that I always > > use. I removed a > > > > > > lot of plant > > > > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it > > possible that I may > > > > > > have removed > > > > > > too much and that would cause fish > > deaths? > > > > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has > > been running for over a > > > > > > year now, so > > > > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. > > I did water changes > > > > > > in my 55 > > > > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, > > so I don't think it > > > > > > was the > > > > > > water change that my water company made > > (using chloramines > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for > > my water conditioner. > > > > > > I did add > > > > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some > > of those last night > > > > > > too). > > > > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which > > is why I'm slightly > > > > > > concerned as > > > > > > to the cause. My Severum died this > > morning, all the fish > > > > > > were gasping at > > > > > > the surface which made me wonder if it > > was an oxygen > > > > > > problem in the > > > > > > water. I turned my power heads more > > towards the surface to > > > > > > cause more > > > > > > surface agitation as well. > > > > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if > > it's still in good > > > > > > condition > > > > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit > > is now over a year > > > > > > old I think), > > > > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the > > tank with. Honestly > > > > > > I hate all > > > > > > these little bottles all over the > > place, I lose them or > > > > > > knock them on > > > > > > the floor way too often, not to mention > > the glass tubes, > > > > > > LOL. I'm > > > > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the > > test vials yet. I > > > > > > want an electric > > > > > > test kit that tests all the water > > parameters, LOL. > > > > > > I'm going out to the fish store today > > to see if they will > > > > > > replace the > > > > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at > > the loss of so many > > > > > > fish, from > > > > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies > > and platties that I > > > > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, > > and 1 of the upside > > > > > > down catfish > > > > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the > > guppies and > > > > > > platties. I hope I > > > > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell > > because it's a heavily > > > > > > planted tank. > > > > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise > > gourami that I bought > > > > > > too, but I > > > > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in > > the tank. > > > > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank > > for over a half hour > > > > > > last night > > > > > > after I finished my water changes and > > filter cleanings, the > > > > > > fish were > > > > > > all very happy and looked just fine, > > whatever caused their > > > > > > deaths didn't > > > > > > happen until this morning when the > > lights came back on. > > > > > > Hubby said my > > > > > > severum was up at the surface when he > > came home for lunch > > > > > > at about 10:30 > > > > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get > > coffee the severum was > > > > > > on the bottom > > > > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. > > The lights come on > > > > > > at 8:30am. > > > > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a > > new test kit but I > > > > > > doubt they > > > > > > have anything but the dip strips... I > > can get those to test > > > > > > with if you > > > > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure > > the tank isn't > > > > > > cycling or > > > > > > anything odd. It's typically my most > > stable tank, most of > > > > > > my oldest fish > > > > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49166	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Yes, but they have different type of filters!  Did you change out or clean any of the filter elements in one of their filters but not the hob's or the other way around? I remember about the 55's water and also one other question, does either one of these tanks use an undergravel filter?  If so, which one?   OR--------------Ya just got some messed up fish???????   You DID only put the new fish in the 125 right?  Nothing in the 55.  Well now, if you didn't have a problem before, ya went out and got yourself some new fish and then put said fish ONLY in the 125 and now we have the Black Plague in there, guess what?  Ya, got bad or at least certainly questionable fish.  One other thing?  How long did the LPS have the fish before Amber brought them home?  Why?  Stress kills lady!   Bill   --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 10:16 PM >   If it was the water source > then my 55 gallon would have fish losses > too. It's only the 125 gallon tank that lost fish. I > cleaned my 55 > gallon more (did 2 PWC's through the span of about 6 hours, > and cleaned > the gravel a bit around the plants since the snails poop a > lot). So I > actually cleaned the 55 gallon more than the 125 gallon, > except I took > more plants out of the 125 gallon while I was refilling the > tank. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 6:14 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes but even at that temperature, in that large a tank > I doubt if would > > be too critical 80--78 range, especially since you did > correct the > > remaining portion > > of the water change. Also I think you would look for > the "Ick" right away. > > Last I remember it would cause the fish to itch or > scratch, not gasp at > > the surface as you indicated. > > > > I am looking toward the water source. For now, I would > not do anymore > > PWC's until you re-examine that source and run up > another water > > baseline of it. If for no other reason, that to just > rule it out as a > > possible problem. Considering your previous remarks > > about that source itself, they could very well have > changed > > something,and not tell you! > > > > No need in my getting into that test strip > business------------API > > -----vials and all. Hey! > > They keep you aggravated don't they? Cheer-up! It's > always darkest > > before the dawn, I wear sun glass's alot so I should > know. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > deaths > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:56 PM > > > Add fish first, some yesterday > > > (just the danio's and the gourami), I > > > added the upside down catfish last week. I did > the water > > > change last > > > night hours after adding the new fish. > > > I've had the Severum for over a year, he was a > nice big > > > healthy and > > > hardy fish. I guess I don't have to worry about > feeding him > > > anymore, LOL. > > > The only difference was the water temp was too > cold at > > > first and I > > > refilled a good 20-30 gallons with colder water, > then > > > stopped the water > > > and changed it to the right temp. So the tank > temps dropped > > > a couple of > > > degrees and them went back to normal. Would that > cause a > > > death 12-14 > > > hours later though? Whatever caused these deaths > was > > > something that > > > didn't happen right after the water change (the > fish were > > > fine after the > > > water change). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:52 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber you have to re-call, "there was > something you > > > did different in > > > > that 125". Also, as I am sure you are aware, > Severums > > > are a fairly > > > > hardy fish and you have had this one for a > while as I > > > recall. They > > > > don't go belly-up easily. > > > > > > > > Either your PWC water took a radical pH > swing or > > > something but then > > > > you also said you did change the 55 at the > same time > > > and that tank is OK? > > > > > > > > Just so I have this story straight so far, > you did the > > > PWC and THEN > > > > added the new fish or the new fish first and > then the > > > water change > > > > later in the same day? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about > fish > > > deaths > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM > > > > > > > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish > deaths to > > > current residents > > > > of my tank, currently I've only lost new > fish from > > > either badly > > > > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a > tank > > > cleaning. SO something > > > > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning > process > > > and only something I > > > > do on the 125 gallon tank... > > > > One thing that was different last night is > that when I > > > first started > > > > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a > little > > > too cold and I had > > > > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more > when I > > > noticed it. So I fixed > > > > the water temp to what the tank normally is > so the > > > water temp in the > > > > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... > Could this > > > little temp > > > > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > > > > The fish were fine for the hour or so after > the water > > > change that I > > > > watched them for... No hovering at the > surface, they > > > were all eating and > > > > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" > didn't come > > > until early this > > > > morning or sometime last night. The severum > was still > > > alive around > > > > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish > were found > > > dead at 11am as > > > > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did > not check > > > my pH at the time > > > > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my > master test > > > kit is over a > > > > year old now, I figured it's not going to be > very > > > accurate if I haven't > > > > used it for a little while and I don't shake > it all > > > the time if I'm not > > > > using it. > > > > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but > I didn't > > > have the Q tank set > > > > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my > closet. > > > My loss and my > > > > money I guess, I like to learn everything > the hard way > > > a few times ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing > at the > > > surface after your vigorous > > > > > cleansing and prior to their death? If > so, I > > > might lean to the CO2 > > > > theory, > > > > > However, it would take more than a few > hours for > > > them to succumb to CO2 > > > > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when > the > > > problem was first noticed, a > > > > > definitely lower pH than normal could > be an > > > indicator of a higher CO2 > > > > > level. > > > > > > > > > > I will save you from the quarantine > speech. I > > > know you know better, > > > > > and I am > > > > > just as sure that someone out there is > just dying > > > to give it to you, > > > > so I > > > > > will let that person do so. They have > my > > > permission. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 > PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions > about fish > > > deaths > > > > > > > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, > every time > > > I've done that they've > > > > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the > fish that > > > were new were added to the > > > > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same > time, in a > > > little over a weeks time > > > > > frame I added the new fish). But > whatever the > > > problem is... it's only > > > > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I > don't know if > > > my botia kubotai are > > > > > surface breathers or not but they are > very active > > > and happy just like > > > > > normal, so it's not affecting them > either. They > > > are also a scaleless > > > > > fish, so they are more susceptible to > things like > > > ich. The 125 gallon > > > > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close > as I can > > > get to one, as that's > > > > > where I typically put new fish and then > move them > > > if needed to my other > > > > > tanks later. > > > > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants > last > > > night, got too much into > > > > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that > whatever > > > happened happened over > > > > > night and through the early morning. > I'm guessing > > > a CO2 build up from > > > > > the new fish and then the loss of > plants caused > > > the CO2 to not get used > > > > > up from the plants as fast as it > normally would. > > > > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone > know? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > You Did Not put any of the new > fish just > > > bought, in any other tanks > > > > > > did you? Unless I missed that > part, all went > > > into the 125? May I > > > > > consider > > > > > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is > this your > > > QT? A cycled tank does not > > > > > > mean it cannot be contaminated by > something, > > > usually quite the > > > > > > contrary! A good healthy tank is > generally a > > > good candidate for some > > > > > > mysterious aliment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] > Questions about > > > fish deaths > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, > 2010, 3:41 > > > PM > > > > > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > > > > > this morning. I did a water > change and > > > > > > > used my water conditioner > that I always > > > use. I removed a > > > > > > > lot of plant > > > > > > > matter though (trimmed > plants); is it > > > possible that I may > > > > > > > have removed > > > > > > > too much and that would cause > fish > > > deaths? > > > > > > > This is my 125 gallon tank > that has > > > been running for over a > > > > > > > year now, so > > > > > > > I know it's fully cycled and > all that. > > > I did water changes > > > > > > > in my 55 > > > > > > > gallon upstairs and had NO > fish deaths, > > > so I don't think it > > > > > > > was the > > > > > > > water change that my water > company made > > > (using chloramines > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > just chlorine). I use stress > coat for > > > my water conditioner. > > > > > > > I did add > > > > > > > new fish earlier this week > (lost some > > > of those last night > > > > > > > too). > > > > > > > I lost a very hardy fish > though which > > > is why I'm slightly > > > > > > > concerned as > > > > > > > to the cause. My Severum died > this > > > morning, all the fish > > > > > > > were gasping at > > > > > > > the surface which made me > wonder if it > > > was an oxygen > > > > > > > problem in the > > > > > > > water. I turned my power > heads more > > > towards the surface to > > > > > > > cause more > > > > > > > surface agitation as well. > > > > > > > My test kit is old and I'm > not sure if > > > it's still in good > > > > > > > condition > > > > > > > (need to get a new one, this > test kit > > > is now over a year > > > > > > > old I think), > > > > > > > so I didn't bother using it > to test the > > > tank with. Honestly > > > > > > > I hate all > > > > > > > these little bottles all over > the > > > place, I lose them or > > > > > > > knock them on > > > > > > > the floor way too often, not > to mention > > > the glass tubes, > > > > > > > LOL. I'm > > > > > > > surprised I haven't broken > any of the > > > test vials yet. I > > > > > > > want an electric > > > > > > > test kit that tests all the > water > > > parameters, LOL. > > > > > > > I'm going out to the fish > store today > > > to see if they will > > > > > > > replace the > > > > > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little > bummed at > > > the loss of so many > > > > > > > fish, from > > > > > > > what I could tell it was > mostly guppies > > > and platties that I > > > > > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > > > > > of my giant danio's that I > just got, > > > and 1 of the upside > > > > > > > down catfish > > > > > > > that I got, and my Severum > and all the > > > guppies and > > > > > > > platties. I hope I > > > > > > > didn't lose more as I can't > tell > > > because it's a heavily > > > > > > > planted tank. > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the > paradise > > > gourami that I bought > > > > > > > too, but I > > > > > > > don't know since I haven't > seen it in > > > the tank. > > > > > > > What a crappy day. I watched > the tank > > > for over a half hour > > > > > > > last night > > > > > > > after I finished my water > changes and > > > filter cleanings, the > > > > > > > fish were > > > > > > > all very happy and looked > just fine, > > > whatever caused their > > > > > > > deaths didn't > > > > > > > happen until this morning > when the > > > lights came back on. > > > > > > > Hubby said my > > > > > > > severum was up at the surface > when he > > > came home for lunch > > > > > > > at about 10:30 > > > > > > > am, when I went down at 11am > to get > > > coffee the severum was > > > > > > > on the bottom > > > > > > > of the tank dead... Died that > quickly. > > > The lights come on > > > > > > > at 8:30am. > > > > > > > I'm going to check the fish > store for a > > > new test kit but I > > > > > > > doubt they > > > > > > > have anything but the dip > strips... I > > > can get those to test > > > > > > > with if you > > > > > > > guys want numbers, but I'm > pretty sure > > > the tank isn't > > > > > > > cycling or > > > > > > > anything odd. It's typically > my most > > > stable tank, most of > > > > > > > my oldest fish > > > > > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > TEXT that > > > is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by > clicking on > > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > single > > > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > where you will still be able to read > messages on the > > > group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49167	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Amber, That small a temperature change, even coming on relatively quickly, should not have killed the fish. It may have made them a bit uncomfortable, but probably not appreciably so. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to current residents of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from either badly acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank cleaning. SO something I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process and only something I do on the 125 gallon tank... One thing that was different last night is that when I first started refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little too cold and I had already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I noticed it. So I fixed the water temp to what the tank normally is so the water temp in the tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this little temp fluccuation cause slow deaths? The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water change that I watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they were all eating and foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come until early this morning or sometime last night. The severum was still alive around 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found dead at 11am as well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check my pH at the time as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test kit is over a year old now, I figured it's not going to be very accurate if I haven't used it for a little while and I don't shake it all the time if I'm not using it. Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't have the Q tank set up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. My loss and my money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way a few times ;) LOL. Amber On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your vigorous > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 theory, > However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb to CO2 > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first noticed, a > definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 > level. > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, > and I am > just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to you, so I > will let that person do so. They have my permission. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other > tanks later. > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I > consider > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > > mysterious aliment. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > > lot of plant > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > > have removed > > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > > year now, so > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > > in my 55 > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > > was the > > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > > instead of > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > > I did add > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > > too). > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > > concerned as > > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > > were gasping at > > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > > problem in the > > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > > cause more > > > surface agitation as well. > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > > condition > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > > old I think), > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > > I hate all > > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > > knock them on > > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > > LOL. I'm > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > > want an electric > > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > > replace the > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > > fish, from > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > > down catfish > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > > platties. I hope I > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > > planted tank. > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > > too, but I > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > > last night > > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > > fish were > > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > > deaths didn't > > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > > Hubby said my > > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > > at about 10:30 > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > > on the bottom > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > > at 8:30am. > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > > doubt they > > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > > with if you > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > > cycling or > > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > > my oldest fish > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49168	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

I cleaned the HOB's the same as I clean my canister filters and yes they all got cleaned yesterday as well. I don't use under gravel filters in any of my tanks, I have walstad setups in all of my tanks but my 10 gallon ones. I only put new fish in the 125 gallon tank. The fish store had them for over a week before I bought them, the newest fish to the LFS were the gourami's, they got them just last week. Amber On 9/3/2010 6:33 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > Yes, but they have different type of filters! Did you change out or > clean any of the filter > elements in one of their filters but not the hob's or the other way > around? > > I remember about the 55's water and also one other question, does > either one of these tanks use an undergravel filter? If so, which one? > > OR--------------Ya just got some messed up fish??????? > > You DID only put the new fish in the 125 right? Nothing in the 55. > Well now, if you didn't have a problem before, ya went out and got > yourself some new fish and then put said fish ONLY in the 125 and now > we have the Black Plague in there, guess what? Ya, got bad or at least > certainly questionable fish. One other thing? How long did the LPS > have the fish before Amber brought them home? Why? Stress kills lady! > > Bill > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 10:16 PM > > If it was the water source > > then my 55 gallon would have fish losses > > too. It's only the 125 gallon tank that lost fish. I > > cleaned my 55 > > gallon more (did 2 PWC's through the span of about 6 hours, > > and cleaned > > the gravel a bit around the plants since the snails poop a > > lot). So I > > actually cleaned the 55 gallon more than the 125 gallon, > > except I took > > more plants out of the 125 gallon while I was refilling the > > tank. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 6:14 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Yes but even at that temperature, in that large a tank > > I doubt if would > > > be too critical 80--78 range, especially since you did > > correct the > > > remaining portion > > > of the water change. Also I think you would look for > > the "Ick" right away. > > > Last I remember it would cause the fish to itch or > > scratch, not gasp at > > > the surface as you indicated. > > > > > > I am looking toward the water source. For now, I would > > not do anymore > > > PWC's until you re-examine that source and run up > > another water > > > baseline of it. If for no other reason, that to just > > rule it out as a > > > possible problem. Considering your previous remarks > > > about that source itself, they could very well have > > changed > > > something,and not tell you! > > > > > > No need in my getting into that test strip > > business------------API > > > -----vials and all. Hey! > > > They keep you aggravated don't they? Cheer-up! It's > > always darkest > > > before the dawn, I wear sun glass's alot so I should > > know. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > > deaths > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:56 PM > > > > Add fish first, some yesterday > > > > (just the danio's and the gourami), I > > > > added the upside down catfish last week. I did > > the water > > > > change last > > > > night hours after adding the new fish. > > > > I've had the Severum for over a year, he was a > > nice big > > > > healthy and > > > > hardy fish. I guess I don't have to worry about > > feeding him > > > > anymore, LOL. > > > > The only difference was the water temp was too > > cold at > > > > first and I > > > > refilled a good 20-30 gallons with colder water, > > then > > > > stopped the water > > > > and changed it to the right temp. So the tank > > temps dropped > > > > a couple of > > > > degrees and them went back to normal. Would that > > cause a > > > > death 12-14 > > > > hours later though? Whatever caused these deaths > > was > > > > something that > > > > didn't happen right after the water change (the > > fish were > > > > fine after the > > > > water change). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:52 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber you have to re-call, "there was > > something you > > > > did different in > > > > > that 125". Also, as I am sure you are aware, > > Severums > > > > are a fairly > > > > > hardy fish and you have had this one for a > > while as I > > > > recall. They > > > > > don't go belly-up easily. > > > > > > > > > > Either your PWC water took a radical pH > > swing or > > > > something but then > > > > > you also said you did change the 55 at the > > same time > > > > and that tank is OK? > > > > > > > > > > Just so I have this story straight so far, > > you did the > > > > PWC and THEN > > > > > added the new fish or the new fish first and > > then the > > > > water change > > > > > later in the same day? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about > > fish > > > > deaths > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM > > > > > > > > > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish > > deaths to > > > > current residents > > > > > of my tank, currently I've only lost new > > fish from > > > > either badly > > > > > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a > > tank > > > > cleaning. SO something > > > > > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning > > process > > > > and only something I > > > > > do on the 125 gallon tank... > > > > > One thing that was different last night is > > that when I > > > > first started > > > > > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a > > little > > > > too cold and I had > > > > > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more > > when I > > > > noticed it. So I fixed > > > > > the water temp to what the tank normally is > > so the > > > > water temp in the > > > > > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... > > Could this > > > > little temp > > > > > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > > > > > The fish were fine for the hour or so after > > the water > > > > change that I > > > > > watched them for... No hovering at the > > surface, they > > > > were all eating and > > > > > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" > > didn't come > > > > until early this > > > > > morning or sometime last night. The severum > > was still > > > > alive around > > > > > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish > > were found > > > > dead at 11am as > > > > > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did > > not check > > > > my pH at the time > > > > > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my > > master test > > > > kit is over a > > > > > year old now, I figured it's not going to be > > very > > > > accurate if I haven't > > > > > used it for a little while and I don't shake > > it all > > > > the time if I'm not > > > > > using it. > > > > > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but > > I didn't > > > > have the Q tank set > > > > > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my > > closet. > > > > My loss and my > > > > > money I guess, I like to learn everything > > the hard way > > > > a few times ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing > > at the > > > > surface after your vigorous > > > > > > cleansing and prior to their death? If > > so, I > > > > might lean to the CO2 > > > > > theory, > > > > > > However, it would take more than a few > > hours for > > > > them to succumb to CO2 > > > > > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when > > the > > > > problem was first noticed, a > > > > > > definitely lower pH than normal could > > be an > > > > indicator of a higher CO2 > > > > > > level. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will save you from the quarantine > > speech. I > > > > know you know better, > > > > > > and I am > > > > > > just as sure that someone out there is > > just dying > > > > to give it to you, > > > > > so I > > > > > > will let that person do so. They have > > my > > > > permission. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 > > PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions > > about fish > > > > deaths > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, > > every time > > > > I've done that they've > > > > > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the > > fish that > > > > were new were added to the > > > > > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same > > time, in a > > > > little over a weeks time > > > > > > frame I added the new fish). But > > whatever the > > > > problem is... it's only > > > > > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I > > don't know if > > > > my botia kubotai are > > > > > > surface breathers or not but they are > > very active > > > > and happy just like > > > > > > normal, so it's not affecting them > > either. They > > > > are also a scaleless > > > > > > fish, so they are more susceptible to > > things like > > > > ich. The 125 gallon > > > > > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close > > as I can > > > > get to one, as that's > > > > > > where I typically put new fish and then > > move them > > > > if needed to my other > > > > > > tanks later. > > > > > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants > > last > > > > night, got too much into > > > > > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that > > whatever > > > > happened happened over > > > > > > night and through the early morning. > > I'm guessing > > > > a CO2 build up from > > > > > > the new fish and then the loss of > > plants caused > > > > the CO2 to not get used > > > > > > up from the plants as fast as it > > normally would. > > > > > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone > > know? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > You Did Not put any of the new > > fish just > > > > bought, in any other tanks > > > > > > > did you? Unless I missed that > > part, all went > > > > into the 125? May I > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is > > this your > > > > QT? A cycled tank does not > > > > > > > mean it cannot be contaminated by > > something, > > > > usually quite the > > > > > > > contrary! A good healthy tank is > > generally a > > > > good candidate for some > > > > > > > mysterious aliment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] > > Questions about > > > > fish deaths > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, > > 2010, 3:41 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > > > > > > this morning. I did a water > > change and > > > > > > > > used my water conditioner > > that I always > > > > use. I removed a > > > > > > > > lot of plant > > > > > > > > matter though (trimmed > > plants); is it > > > > possible that I may > > > > > > > > have removed > > > > > > > > too much and that would cause > > fish > > > > deaths? > > > > > > > > This is my 125 gallon tank > > that has > > > > been running for over a > > > > > > > > year now, so > > > > > > > > I know it's fully cycled and > > all that. > > > > I did water changes > > > > > > > > in my 55 > > > > > > > > gallon upstairs and had NO > > fish deaths, > > > > so I don't think it > > > > > > > > was the > > > > > > > > water change that my water > > company made > > > > (using chloramines > > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > just chlorine). I use stress > > coat for > > > > my water conditioner. > > > > > > > > I did add > > > > > > > > new fish earlier this week > > (lost some > > > > of those last night > > > > > > > > too). > > > > > > > > I lost a very hardy fish > > though which > > > > is why I'm slightly > > > > > > > > concerned as > > > > > > > > to the cause. My Severum died > > this > > > > morning, all the fish > > > > > > > > were gasping at > > > > > > > > the surface which made me > > wonder if it > > > > was an oxygen > > > > > > > > problem in the > > > > > > > > water. I turned my power > > heads more > > > > towards the surface to > > > > > > > > cause more > > > > > > > > surface agitation as well. > > > > > > > > My test kit is old and I'm > > not sure if > > > > it's still in good > > > > > > > > condition > > > > > > > > (need to get a new one, this > > test kit > > > > is now over a year > > > > > > > > old I think), > > > > > > > > so I didn't bother using it > > to test the > > > > tank with. Honestly > > > > > > > > I hate all > > > > > > > > these little bottles all over > > the > > > > place, I lose them or > > > > > > > > knock them on > > > > > > > > the floor way too often, not > > to mention > > > > the glass tubes, > > > > > > > > LOL. I'm > > > > > > > > surprised I haven't broken > > any of the > > > > test vials yet. I > > > > > > > > want an electric > > > > > > > > test kit that tests all the > > water > > > > parameters, LOL. > > > > > > > > I'm going out to the fish > > store today > > > > to see if they will > > > > > > > > replace the > > > > > > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little > > bummed at > > > > the loss of so many > > > > > > > > fish, from > > > > > > > > what I could tell it was > > mostly guppies > > > > and platties that I > > > > > > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > > > > > > of my giant danio's that I > > just got, > > > > and 1 of the upside > > > > > > > > down catfish > > > > > > > > that I got, and my Severum > > and all the > > > > guppies and > > > > > > > > platties. I hope I > > > > > > > > didn't lose more as I can't > > tell > > > > because it's a heavily > > > > > > > > planted tank. > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the > > paradise > > > > gourami that I bought > > > > > > > > too, but I > > > > > > > > don't know since I haven't > > seen it in > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > What a crappy day. I watched > > the tank > > > > for over a half hour > > > > > > > > last night > > > > > > > > after I finished my water > > changes and > > > > filter cleanings, the > > > > > > > > fish were > > > > > > > > all very happy and looked > > just fine, > > > > whatever caused their > > > > > > > > deaths didn't > > > > > > > > happen until this morning > > when the > > > > lights came back on. > > > > > > > > Hubby said my > > > > > > > > severum was up at the surface > > when he > > > > came home for lunch > > > > > > > > at about 10:30 > > > > > > > > am, when I went down at 11am > > to get > > > > coffee the severum was > > > > > > > > on the bottom > > > > > > > > of the tank dead... Died that > > quickly. > > > > The lights come on > > > > > > > > at 8:30am. > > > > > > > > I'm going to check the fish > > store for a > > > > new test kit but I > > > > > > > > doubt they > > > > > > > > have anything but the dip > > strips... I > > > > can get those to test > > > > > > > > with if you > > > > > > > > guys want numbers, but I'm > > pretty sure > > > > the tank isn't > > > > > > > > cycling or > > > > > > > > anything odd. It's typically > > my most > > > > stable tank, most of > > > > > > > > my oldest fish > > > > > > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING > > below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > > TEXT that > > > > is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in > > this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on > > > > "Edit My > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > receive the digest, > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a > > single > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > > where you will still be able to read > > messages on the > > > > group and post > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > receive individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > > when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > > that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > > TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > > -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > > matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > > instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > > option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > > posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > > able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49169	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Lenny pointed out in a off-group email about the reduced O2 levels from using a water conditioner during a water change, and the lights being turned out within a couple hours would have caused a lack of O2 and the reduced plants didn't produce enough O2 before lights out and when the lights first turned back on. I think this is my culprit. Amber On 9/3/2010 7:03 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > That small a temperature change, even coming on relatively quickly, should > not have killed the fish. It may have made them a bit uncomfortable, but > probably not appreciably so. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to current residents > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from either badly > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank cleaning. SO something > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process and only something I > do on the 125 gallon tank... > One thing that was different last night is that when I first started > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little too cold and I had > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I noticed it. So I fixed > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the water temp in the > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this little temp > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water change that I > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they were all eating and > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come until early this > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still alive around > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found dead at 11am as > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check my pH at the time > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test kit is over a > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very accurate if I haven't > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all the time if I'm not > using it. > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't have the Q tank set > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. My loss and my > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way a few times ;) LOL. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Amber, > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your vigorous > > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 > theory, > > However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb to CO2 > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first noticed, a > > definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 > > level. > > > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, > > and I am > > just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to you, > so I > > will let that person do so. They have my permission. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time > > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are > > surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like > > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless > > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's > > where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other > > tanks later. > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over > > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from > > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used > > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I > > consider > > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > > > mysterious aliment. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > > > lot of plant > > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > > > have removed > > > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > > > year now, so > > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > > > in my 55 > > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > > > was the > > > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > > > instead of > > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > > > I did add > > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > > > too). > > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > > > concerned as > > > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > > > were gasping at > > > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > > > problem in the > > > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > > > cause more > > > > surface agitation as well. > > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > > > condition > > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > > > old I think), > > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > > > I hate all > > > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > > > knock them on > > > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > > > LOL. I'm > > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > > > want an electric > > > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > > > replace the > > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > > > fish, from > > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > > > down catfish > > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > > > platties. I hope I > > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > > > planted tank. > > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > > > too, but I > > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > > > last night > > > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > > > fish were > > > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > > > deaths didn't > > > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > > > Hubby said my > > > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > > > at about 10:30 > > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > > > on the bottom > > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > > > at 8:30am. > > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > > > doubt they > > > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > > > with if you > > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > > > cycling or > > > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > > > my oldest fish > > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49170	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/3/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Bill, You need to remember, this time of year, she only has what, 2, maybe 3 hours of darkness there. Sun hardly has time to go down before it comes back up again. But before too long, she'll have 24 hours of darkness, and need to watch out for the vacationing vampires. At that time of year, it is truly darkest before the dawn (what dawn?). \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths Yes but even at that temperature, in that large a tank I doubt if would be too critical 80--78 range, especially since you did correct the remaining portion of the water change.  Also I think you would look for the "Ick" right away. Last I remember it would cause the fish to itch or scratch, not gasp at the surface as you indicated.    I am looking toward the water source.  For now, I would not do anymore PWC's until you re-examine that source and run up another water baseline of it.  If for no other reason, that to just rule it out as a possible problem.  Considering your previous remarks about that source itself, they could very well have changed something,and not tell you!   No need in my getting into that test strip business------------API -----vials and all.  Hey! They keep you aggravated don't they?  Cheer-up!  It's always darkest before the dawn, I wear sun glass's alot so I should know.   Bill --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:56 PM >   Add fish first, some yesterday > (just the danio's and the gourami), I > added the upside down catfish last week. I did the water > change last > night hours after adding the new fish. > I've had the Severum for over a year, he was a nice big > healthy and > hardy fish. I guess I don't have to worry about feeding him > anymore, LOL. > The only difference was the water temp was too cold at > first and I > refilled a good 20-30 gallons with colder water, then > stopped the water > and changed it to the right temp. So the tank temps dropped > a couple of > degrees and them went back to normal. Would that cause a > death 12-14 > hours later though? Whatever caused these deaths was > something that > didn't happen right after the water change (the fish were > fine after the > water change). > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 5:52 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Amber you have to re-call, "there was something you > did different in > > that 125". Also, as I am sure you are aware, Severums > are a fairly > > hardy fish and you have had this one for a while as I > recall. They > > don't go belly-up easily. > > > > Either your PWC water took a radical pH swing or > something but then > > you also said you did change the 55 at the same time > and that tank is OK? > > > > Just so I have this story straight so far, you did the > PWC and THEN > > added the new fish or the new fish first and then the > water change > > later in the same day? > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > deaths > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM > > > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to > current residents > > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from > either badly > > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank > cleaning. SO something > > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process > and only something I > > do on the 125 gallon tank... > > One thing that was different last night is that when I > first started > > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little > too cold and I had > > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I > noticed it. So I fixed > > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the > water temp in the > > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this > little temp > > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water > change that I > > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they > were all eating and > > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come > until early this > > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still > alive around > > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found > dead at 11am as > > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check > my pH at the time > > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test > kit is over a > > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very > accurate if I haven't > > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all > the time if I'm not > > using it. > > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't > have the Q tank set > > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. > My loss and my > > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way > a few times ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the > surface after your vigorous > > > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I > might lean to the CO2 > > theory, > > > However, it would take more than a few hours for > them to succumb to CO2 > > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the > problem was first noticed, a > > > definitely lower pH than normal could be an > indicator of a higher CO2 > > > level. > > > > > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I > know you know better, > > > and I am > > > just as sure that someone out there is just dying > to give it to you, > > so I > > > will let that person do so. They have my > permission. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > deaths > > > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time > I've done that they've > > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that > were new were added to the > > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a > little over a weeks time > > > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the > problem is... it's only > > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if > my botia kubotai are > > > surface breathers or not but they are very active > and happy just like > > > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They > are also a scaleless > > > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like > ich. The 125 gallon > > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can > get to one, as that's > > > where I typically put new fish and then move them > if needed to my other > > > tanks later. > > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last > night, got too much into > > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever > happened happened over > > > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing > a CO2 build up from > > > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused > the CO2 to not get used > > > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49171	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Amber... if I may add my two cents to this conversation... After just reading each and every post in this thread I notice a number of things. First, I want to point out that I think everyone has a bit of the puzzle in their suggestions and answers. New fish are stressed, period. The store environment is stressful, relocating is stressful, change of environment, etc. and a water change should never be done less than 24 - 48 hrs after adding new fish if at all possible. Stress kills, but before it does that it weakens the immune system of the fish, so something that might not kill a well adjusted fish is deadly to them. Water temp changes... in that amount of volume, also can contribute to what you have described, though not an immediate killer, it will cause further stress to the fish's system. The weakest fish will be most affected. pH fluctuation... I have no doubt in my mind that pH played a role in all of this. It doesn't have to fluctuate a lot to drastically affect how a fish functions, and it is not always an instant killer. Add that to the list of stresses to already very stressed fish. Plant removal... not only can the type of trimming you mentioned affect water chemistry, but the stress of messing around in the tank also adds to the above mentioned stuff... I grow hornwort in my 90 gallon and naja grass in a few of my other tanks, I am very familiar with it... it grows like weeds. When I do a drastic trimming water chemistry is usually affected, and that is why I don't do a water change at the same time. Thats something you might want to note for next time you need to trim... do it on a day you don't do a water change. New fish that skip quarantine... the risks there are such a long list I'm sure I don't need to reiterate what has already been mentioned. Put all of those various stresses together and add in an established tank with new fish... and yes, I can clearly see why there was a problem. The severum, while known to be a sturdy fish, only needed some of these stresses to begin causing it issues, and none of these things would have caused immediate death if the changes were somewhat gradual over the course of a few hours. Even established fish fall victim to the unexpected sometimes. What really stands out for me is a possible pH shift between tap and tank. Not affecting the other tanks doesn't mean anything really, as each tank is slightly different in its water chemistry. The fact that the water utility has made any changes in their chemicals can affect the pH in the tap water, and it didn't have to be a drastic difference to affect the fish. One last note for you... if your "old" test kit is API, being over a year old should not affect your readings, it will still be more accurate than strips. I have tested old API kits against new ones many times over the years, and even after 7 yrs on the shelf (after being opened and used), everything still comes up accurate every time. While it is still a good idea to renew them at least once/yr, you can still use them with some level of reliability. I would strongly suggest testing your tap water and then your tank water for each tank before you do the next water change, at least for pH. Testing the tank now is not going to offer you the same answers as it could have before you did the change. That is something I suggest checking regularly for anyone, as tap water and well water both will fluctuate during the course of the year, not only due to chemical treatments, but also as a result from weather changes, season changes, etc. I would wait at least a few weeks after this tank appears stable again before attempting to add more fish... and next time... use a QT. The amount of time to set up a QT tank is less than what you have gone through in fish lost and unanswered questions... and potential problems now for the near future. Best of luck to you, I hope it gets better and isn't a long term problem. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish this morning. I did a water change and > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a lot of plant > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may have removed > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a year now, so > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes in my 55 > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it was the > water change that my water company made (using chloramines instead of > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. I did add > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night too). > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly concerned as > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish were gasping at > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen problem in the > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to cause more > surface agitation as well. > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good condition > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year old I think), > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly I hate all > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or knock them on > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, LOL. I'm > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I want an electric > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will replace the > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many fish, from > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I lost. Lost 2 > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside down catfish > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and platties. I hope I > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily planted tank. > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought too, but I > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour last night > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the fish were > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their deaths didn't > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. Hubby said my > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch at about 10:30 > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was on the bottom > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on at 8:30am. > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I doubt they > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test with if you > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't cycling or > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of my oldest fish > were in that tank :( > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49172	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

I like the way you did it, Steve. I'll have to remember the technique, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths Amber, Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the surface after your vigorous cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I might lean to the CO2 theory, However, it would take more than a few hours for them to succumb to CO2 poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the problem was first noticed, a definitely lower pH than normal could be an indicator of a higher CO2 level. I will save you from the quarantine speech. I know you know better, and I am just as sure that someone out there is just dying to give it to you, so I will let that person do so. They have my permission. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time I've done that they've died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that were new were added to the 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a little over a weeks time frame I added the new fish). But whatever the problem is... it's only affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if my botia kubotai are surface breathers or not but they are very active and happy just like normal, so it's not affecting them either. They are also a scaleless fish, so they are more susceptible to things like ich. The 125 gallon may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can get to one, as that's where I typically put new fish and then move them if needed to my other tanks later. I'm thinking I removed too many plants last night, got too much into cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever happened happened over night and through the early morning. I'm guessing a CO2 build up from the new fish and then the loss of plants caused the CO2 to not get used up from the plants as fast as it normally would. How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. Amber On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > You Did Not put any of the new fish just bought, in any other tanks > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went into the 125? May I consider > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your QT? A cycled tank does not > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, usually quite the > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a good candidate for some > mysterious aliment. > > Bill > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 PM > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > this morning. I did a water change and > > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a > > lot of plant > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may > > have removed > > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a > > year now, so > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes > > in my 55 > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it > > was the > > water change that my water company made (using chloramines > > instead of > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. > > I did add > > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night > > too). > > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly > > concerned as > > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish > > were gasping at > > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen > > problem in the > > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to > > cause more > > surface agitation as well. > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good > > condition > > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year > > old I think), > > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly > > I hate all > > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or > > knock them on > > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, > > LOL. I'm > > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I > > want an electric > > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will > > replace the > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many > > fish, from > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I > > lost. Lost 2 > > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside > > down catfish > > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and > > platties. I hope I > > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily > > planted tank. > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought > > too, but I > > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour > > last night > > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the > > fish were > > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their > > deaths didn't > > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. > > Hubby said my > > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch > > at about 10:30 > > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was > > on the bottom > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on > > at 8:30am. > > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I > > doubt they > > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test > > with if you > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't > > cycling or > > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of > > my oldest fish > > were in that tank :( > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49173	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

I believe this has to do with the source water (tap water). Chloramine increases ammonia. Water conditioners that detoxify ammonia do so by changing it to ammonium which is basically harmless. But the detoxifying ability of conditioners is strictly limited. I don't know about the one you used, but Seachem's Prime for instance only works for 24 hours according to Seachem when I asked them. That means that after that period, any ammonia in the water will still remain. It also means that in basic water (pH above 7) the ammonium will immediately convert back into ammonia. Plants will take up (detoxify) ammonia to a certain extent, and of course they assimilate some as ammonium for their primary source of nitrogen. But a sudden influx of ammonia is overwhelming. The affect of this in the 125g would be greater than in the 55g due to volume. Also other factors might influence it--number and type of fish and plants, bacteria levels, etc. We all know that the toxic effects of ammonia and nitrite can sometimes be slow to show up, especially when the increase is minimal and more likely to build up in the fish. Temperature changes of 3 degrees will not adversely affect fish except for the particularly sensitive species (Chocolate gourami comes to mind). My 115g normally drops by 2-3 degrees every water change and the 140 fish in it react by increased activity and spawning. I am not a chemist, but I suspect the above may be the answer. Also, have you tested the tap water itself for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? I have a griend in southern California who recently lost several fish in the exact same manner you have, and it turned out to be ammonia at 1ppm in the tap water that previously had zero ammonia. As chloramine is ammonia-related, I offer this as a possible explanation. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > If it was the water source then my 55 gallon would have fish losses > too. It's only the 125 gallon tank that lost fish. I cleaned my 55 > gallon more (did 2 PWC's through the span of about 6 hours, and cleaned > the gravel a bit around the plants since the snails poop a lot). So I > actually cleaned the 55 gallon more than the 125 gallon, except I took > more plants out of the 125 gallon while I was refilling the tank. > > Amber > > On 9/3/2010 6:14 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Yes but even at that temperature, in that large a tank I doubt if would > > be too critical 80--78 range, especially since you did correct the > > remaining portion > > of the water change. Also I think you would look for the "Ick" right away. > > Last I remember it would cause the fish to itch or scratch, not gasp at > > the surface as you indicated. > > > > I am looking toward the water source. For now, I would not do anymore > > PWC's until you re-examine that source and run up another water > > baseline of it. If for no other reason, that to just rule it out as a > > possible problem. Considering your previous remarks > > about that source itself, they could very well have changed > > something,and not tell you! > > > > No need in my getting into that test strip business------------API > > -----vials and all. Hey! > > They keep you aggravated don't they? Cheer-up! It's always darkest > > before the dawn, I wear sun glass's alot so I should know. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:56 PM > > > Add fish first, some yesterday > > > (just the danio's and the gourami), I > > > added the upside down catfish last week. I did the water > > > change last > > > night hours after adding the new fish. > > > I've had the Severum for over a year, he was a nice big > > > healthy and > > > hardy fish. I guess I don't have to worry about feeding him > > > anymore, LOL. > > > The only difference was the water temp was too cold at > > > first and I > > > refilled a good 20-30 gallons with colder water, then > > > stopped the water > > > and changed it to the right temp. So the tank temps dropped > > > a couple of > > > degrees and them went back to normal. Would that cause a > > > death 12-14 > > > hours later though? Whatever caused these deaths was > > > something that > > > didn't happen right after the water change (the fish were > > > fine after the > > > water change). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:52 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber you have to re-call, "there was something you > > > did different in > > > > that 125". Also, as I am sure you are aware, Severums > > > are a fairly > > > > hardy fish and you have had this one for a while as I > > > recall. They > > > > don't go belly-up easily. > > > > > > > > Either your PWC water took a radical pH swing or > > > something but then > > > > you also said you did change the 55 at the same time > > > and that tank is OK? > > > > > > > > Just so I have this story straight so far, you did the > > > PWC and THEN > > > > added the new fish or the new fish first and then the > > > water change > > > > later in the same day? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > > > deaths > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM > > > > > > > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to > > > current residents > > > > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from > > > either badly > > > > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank > > > cleaning. SO something > > > > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process > > > and only something I > > > > do on the 125 gallon tank... > > > > One thing that was different last night is that when I > > > first started > > > > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little > > > too cold and I had > > > > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I > > > noticed it. So I fixed > > > > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the > > > water temp in the > > > > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this > > > little temp > > > > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > > > > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water > > > change that I > > > > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they > > > were all eating and > > > > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come > > > until early this > > > > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still > > > alive around > > > > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found > > > dead at 11am as > > > > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check > > > my pH at the time > > > > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test > > > kit is over a > > > > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very > > > accurate if I haven't > > > > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all > > > the time if I'm not > > > > using it. > > > > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't > > > have the Q tank set > > > > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. > > > My loss and my > > > > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way > > > a few times ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the > > > surface after your vigorous > > > > > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I > > > might lean to the CO2 > > > > theory, > > > > > However, it would take more than a few hours for > > > them to succumb to CO2 > > > > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the > > > problem was first noticed, a > > > > > definitely lower pH than normal could be an > > > indicator of a higher CO2 > > > > > level. > > > > > > > > > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I > > > know you know better, > > > > > and I am > > > > > just as sure that someone out there is just dying > > > to give it to you, > > > > so I > > > > > will let that person do so. They have my > > > permission. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > > > deaths > > > > > > > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time > > > I've done that they've > > > > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that > > > were new were added to the > > > > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a > > > little over a weeks time > > > > > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the > > > problem is... it's only > > > > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if > > > my botia kubotai are > > > > > surface breathers or not but they are very active > > > and happy just like > > > > > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They > > > are also a scaleless > > > > > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like > > > ich. The 125 gallon > > > > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can > > > get to one, as that's > > > > > where I typically put new fish and then move them > > > if needed to my other > > > > > tanks later. > > > > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last > > > night, got too much into > > > > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever > > > happened happened over > > > > > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing > > > a CO2 build up from > > > > > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused > > > the CO2 to not get used > > > > > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > > > > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just > > > bought, in any other tanks > > > > > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went > > > into the 125? May I > > > > > consider > > > > > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your > > > QT? A cycled tank does not > > > > > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, > > > usually quite the > > > > > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a > > > good candidate for some > > > > > > mysterious aliment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about > > > fish deaths > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 > > > PM > > > > > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > > > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > > > > > used my water conditioner that I always > > > use. I removed a > > > > > > > lot of plant > > > > > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it > > > possible that I may > > > > > > > have removed > > > > > > > too much and that would cause fish > > > deaths? > > > > > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has > > > been running for over a > > > > > > > year now, so > > > > > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. > > > I did water changes > > > > > > > in my 55 > > > > > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, > > > so I don't think it > > > > > > > was the > > > > > > > water change that my water company made > > > (using chloramines > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for > > > my water conditioner. > > > > > > > I did add > > > > > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some > > > of those last night > > > > > > > too). > > > > > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which > > > is why I'm slightly > > > > > > > concerned as > > > > > > > to the cause. My Severum died this > > > morning, all the fish > > > > > > > were gasping at > > > > > > > the surface which made me wonder if it > > > was an oxygen > > > > > > > problem in the > > > > > > > water. I turned my power heads more > > > towards the surface to > > > > > > > cause more > > > > > > > surface agitation as well. > > > > > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if > > > it's still in good > > > > > > > condition > > > > > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit > > > is now over a year > > > > > > > old I think), > > > > > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the > > > tank with. Honestly > > > > > > > I hate all > > > > > > > these little bottles all over the > > > place, I lose them or > > > > > > > knock them on > > > > > > > the floor way too often, not to mention > > > the glass tubes, > > > > > > > LOL. I'm > > > > > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the > > > test vials yet. I > > > > > > > want an electric > > > > > > > test kit that tests all the water > > > parameters, LOL. > > > > > > > I'm going out to the fish store today > > > to see if they will > > > > > > > replace the > > > > > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at > > > the loss of so many > > > > > > > fish, from > > > > > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies > > > and platties that I > > > > > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > > > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, > > > and 1 of the upside > > > > > > > down catfish > > > > > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the > > > guppies and > > > > > > > platties. I hope I > > > > > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell > > > because it's a heavily > > > > > > > planted tank. > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise > > > gourami that I bought > > > > > > > too, but I > > > > > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in > > > the tank. > > > > > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank > > > for over a half hour > > > > > > > last night > > > > > > > after I finished my water changes and > > > filter cleanings, the > > > > > > > fish were > > > > > > > all very happy and looked just fine, > > > whatever caused their > > > > > > > deaths didn't > > > > > > > happen until this morning when the > > > lights came back on. > > > > > > > Hubby said my > > > > > > > severum was up at the surface when he > > > came home for lunch > > > > > > > at about 10:30 > > > > > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get > > > coffee the severum was > > > > > > > on the bottom > > > > > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. > > > The lights come on > > > > > > > at 8:30am. > > > > > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a > > > new test kit but I > > > > > > > doubt they > > > > > > > have anything but the dip strips... I > > > can get those to test > > > > > > > with if you > > > > > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure > > > the tank isn't > > > > > > > cycling or > > > > > > > anything odd. It's typically my most > > > stable tank, most of > > > > > > > my oldest fish > > > > > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > > is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > > email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > > group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49174	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Dawn, With regard to your comment about test kits, seldom does a reagent maintain its reactivity to the substance you are measuring for 1 year, particularly if they have been opened, exposed to air and to light. This is why it is always recommended to use test kits whose reagents are dated with an expiration date. Reagents will degrade over time even if not opened. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dawnshungryeyes4u2c Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 1:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about fish deaths Amber... if I may add my two cents to this conversation... After just reading each and every post in this thread I notice a number of things. First, I want to point out that I think everyone has a bit of the puzzle in their suggestions and answers. New fish are stressed, period. The store environment is stressful, relocating is stressful, change of environment, etc. and a water change should never be done less than 24 - 48 hrs after adding new fish if at all possible. Stress kills, but before it does that it weakens the immune system of the fish, so something that might not kill a well adjusted fish is deadly to them. Water temp changes... in that amount of volume, also can contribute to what you have described, though not an immediate killer, it will cause further stress to the fish's system. The weakest fish will be most affected. pH fluctuation... I have no doubt in my mind that pH played a role in all of this. It doesn't have to fluctuate a lot to drastically affect how a fish functions, and it is not always an instant killer. Add that to the list of stresses to already very stressed fish. Plant removal... not only can the type of trimming you mentioned affect water chemistry, but the stress of messing around in the tank also adds to the above mentioned stuff... I grow hornwort in my 90 gallon and naja grass in a few of my other tanks, I am very familiar with it... it grows like weeds. When I do a drastic trimming water chemistry is usually affected, and that is why I don't do a water change at the same time. Thats something you might want to note for next time you need to trim... do it on a day you don't do a water change. New fish that skip quarantine... the risks there are such a long list I'm sure I don't need to reiterate what has already been mentioned. Put all of those various stresses together and add in an established tank with new fish... and yes, I can clearly see why there was a problem. The severum, while known to be a sturdy fish, only needed some of these stresses to begin causing it issues, and none of these things would have caused immediate death if the changes were somewhat gradual over the course of a few hours. Even established fish fall victim to the unexpected sometimes. What really stands out for me is a possible pH shift between tap and tank. Not affecting the other tanks doesn't mean anything really, as each tank is slightly different in its water chemistry. The fact that the water utility has made any changes in their chemicals can affect the pH in the tap water, and it didn't have to be a drastic difference to affect the fish. One last note for you... if your "old" test kit is API, being over a year old should not affect your readings, it will still be more accurate than strips. I have tested old API kits against new ones many times over the years, and even after 7 yrs on the shelf (after being opened and used), everything still comes up accurate every time. While it is still a good idea to renew them at least once/yr, you can still use them with some level of reliability. I would strongly suggest testing your tap water and then your tank water for each tank before you do the next water change, at least for pH. Testing the tank now is not going to offer you the same answers as it could have before you did the change. That is something I suggest checking regularly for anyone, as tap water and well water both will fluctuate during the course of the year, not only due to chemical treatments, but also as a result from weather changes, season changes, etc. I would wait at least a few weeks after this tank appears stable again before attempting to add more fish... and next time... use a QT. The amount of time to set up a QT tank is less than what you have gone through in fish lost and unanswered questions... and potential problems now for the near future. Best of luck to you, I hope it gets better and isn't a long term problem. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish this morning. I did a water change and > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a lot of plant > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may have removed > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a year now, so > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes in my 55 > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it was the > water change that my water company made (using chloramines instead of > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. I did add > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night too). > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly concerned as > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish were gasping at > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen problem in the > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to cause more > surface agitation as well. > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good condition > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year old I think), > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly I hate all > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or knock them on > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, LOL. I'm > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I want an electric > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will replace the > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many fish, from > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I lost. Lost 2 > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside down catfish > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and platties. I hope I > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily planted tank. > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought too, but I > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour last night > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the fish were > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their deaths didn't > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. Hubby said my > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch at about 10:30 > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was on the bottom > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on at 8:30am. > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I doubt they > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test with if you > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't cycling or > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of my oldest fish > were in that tank :( > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49175	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

But also \\Steve//, if a person were doing their testing properly, could we not assume that by year's end, the testing supplies would be exhausted anyway?  I know I haven't made a full year without buying a new kit.   Bill --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about fish deaths To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 11:28 AM Dawn, With regard to your comment about test kits, seldom does a reagent maintain its reactivity to the substance you are measuring for 1 year, particularly if they have been opened, exposed to air and to light. This is why it is always recommended to use test kits whose reagents are dated with an expiration date. Reagents will degrade over time even if not opened. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dawnshungryeyes4u2c Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 1:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about fish deaths Amber... if I may add my two cents to this conversation... After just reading each and every post in this thread I notice a number of things.  First, I want to point out that I think everyone has a bit of the puzzle in their suggestions and answers. New fish are stressed, period.  The store environment is stressful, relocating is stressful, change of environment, etc. and a water change should never be done less than 24 - 48 hrs after adding new fish if at all possible.  Stress kills, but before it does that it weakens the immune system of the fish, so something that might not kill a well adjusted fish is deadly to them. Water temp changes... in that amount of volume, also can contribute to what you have described, though not an immediate killer, it will cause further stress to the fish's system.  The weakest fish will be most affected. pH fluctuation... I have no doubt in my mind that pH played a role in all of this.  It doesn't have to fluctuate a lot to drastically affect how a fish functions, and it is not always an instant killer.  Add that to the list of stresses to already very stressed fish. Plant removal... not only can the type of trimming you mentioned affect water chemistry, but the stress of messing around in the tank also adds to the above mentioned stuff... I grow hornwort in my 90 gallon and naja grass in a few of my other tanks, I am very familiar with it... it grows like weeds.  When I do a drastic trimming water chemistry is usually affected, and that is why I don't do a water change at the same time.  Thats something you might want to note for next time you need to trim... do it on a day you don't do a water change. New fish that skip quarantine... the risks there are such a long list I'm sure I don't need to reiterate what has already been mentioned.  Put all of those various stresses together and add in an established tank with new fish... and yes, I can clearly see why there was a problem.  The severum, while known to be a sturdy fish, only needed some of these stresses to begin causing it issues, and none of these things would have caused immediate death if the changes were somewhat gradual over the course of a few hours.  Even established fish fall victim to the unexpected sometimes.  What really stands out for me is a possible pH shift between tap and tank. Not affecting the other tanks doesn't mean anything really, as each tank is slightly different in its water chemistry.  The fact that the water utility has made any changes in their chemicals can affect the pH in the tap water, and it didn't have to be a drastic difference to affect the fish.  One last note for you... if your "old" test kit is API, being over a year old should not affect your readings, it will still be more accurate than strips.  I have tested old API kits against new ones many times over the years, and even after 7 yrs on the shelf (after being opened and used), everything still comes up accurate every time.  While it is still a good idea to renew them at least once/yr, you can still use them with some level of reliability.  I would strongly suggest testing your tap water and then your tank water for each tank before you do the next water change, at least for pH.  Testing the tank now is not going to offer you the same answers as it could have before you did the change.  That is something I suggest checking regularly for anyone, as tap water and well water both will fluctuate during the course of the year, not only due to chemical treatments, but also as a result from weather changes, season changes, etc. I would wait at least a few weeks after this tank appears stable again before attempting to add more fish... and next time... use a QT.  The amount of time to set up a QT tank is less than what you have gone through in fish lost and unanswered questions... and potential problems now for the near future. Best of luck to you, I hope it gets better and isn't a long term problem. Dawn    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > >   Okay so I lost about 10 fish this morning. I did a water change and > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a lot of plant > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may have removed > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a year now, so > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes in my 55 > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it was the > water change that my water company made (using chloramines instead of > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. I did add > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night too). > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly concerned as > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish were gasping at > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen problem in the > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to cause more > surface agitation as well. > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good condition > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year old I think), > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly I hate all > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or knock them on > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, LOL. I'm > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I want an electric > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will replace the > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many fish, from > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I lost. Lost 2 > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside down catfish > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and platties. I hope I > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily planted tank. > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought too, but I > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour last night > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the fish were > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their deaths didn't > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. Hubby said my > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch at about 10:30 > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was on the bottom > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on at 8:30am. > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I doubt they > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test with if you > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't cycling or > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of my oldest fish > were in that tank :( > > Amber > ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49176	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

Bill, Once a tank has been stabilized, testing frequency decreases. It will be reduced to weekly, then monthly, then once in a while, then to well, it looks like I may have a problem, let me test the water. While I would recommend monthly testing in a stable tank, I cannot say that I have followed that advice <g>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 1:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about fish deaths But also \\Steve//, if a person were doing their testing properly, could we not assume that by year's end, the testing supplies would be exhausted anyway?  I know I haven't made a full year without buying a new kit.   Bill --- On Sat, 9/4/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about fish deaths To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 11:28 AM Dawn, With regard to your comment about test kits, seldom does a reagent maintain its reactivity to the substance you are measuring for 1 year, particularly if they have been opened, exposed to air and to light. This is why it is always recommended to use test kits whose reagents are dated with an expiration date. Reagents will degrade over time even if not opened. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dawnshungryeyes4u2c Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 1:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Questions about fish deaths Amber... if I may add my two cents to this conversation... After just reading each and every post in this thread I notice a number of things.  First, I want to point out that I think everyone has a bit of the puzzle in their suggestions and answers. New fish are stressed, period.  The store environment is stressful, relocating is stressful, change of environment, etc. and a water change should never be done less than 24 - 48 hrs after adding new fish if at all possible.  Stress kills, but before it does that it weakens the immune system of the fish, so something that might not kill a well adjusted fish is deadly to them. Water temp changes... in that amount of volume, also can contribute to what you have described, though not an immediate killer, it will cause further stress to the fish's system.  The weakest fish will be most affected. pH fluctuation... I have no doubt in my mind that pH played a role in all of this.  It doesn't have to fluctuate a lot to drastically affect how a fish functions, and it is not always an instant killer.  Add that to the list of stresses to already very stressed fish. Plant removal... not only can the type of trimming you mentioned affect water chemistry, but the stress of messing around in the tank also adds to the above mentioned stuff... I grow hornwort in my 90 gallon and naja grass in a few of my other tanks, I am very familiar with it... it grows like weeds.  When I do a drastic trimming water chemistry is usually affected, and that is why I don't do a water change at the same time.  Thats something you might want to note for next time you need to trim... do it on a day you don't do a water change. New fish that skip quarantine... the risks there are such a long list I'm sure I don't need to reiterate what has already been mentioned.  Put all of those various stresses together and add in an established tank with new fish... and yes, I can clearly see why there was a problem.  The severum, while known to be a sturdy fish, only needed some of these stresses to begin causing it issues, and none of these things would have caused immediate death if the changes were somewhat gradual over the course of a few hours.  Even established fish fall victim to the unexpected sometimes.  What really stands out for me is a possible pH shift between tap and tank. Not affecting the other tanks doesn't mean anything really, as each tank is slightly different in its water chemistry.  The fact that the water utility has made any changes in their chemicals can affect the pH in the tap water, and it didn't have to be a drastic difference to affect the fish.  One last note for you... if your "old" test kit is API, being over a year old should not affect your readings, it will still be more accurate than strips.  I have tested old API kits against new ones many times over the years, and even after 7 yrs on the shelf (after being opened and used), everything still comes up accurate every time.  While it is still a good idea to renew them at least once/yr, you can still use them with some level of reliability.  I would strongly suggest testing your tap water and then your tank water for each tank before you do the next water change, at least for pH.  Testing the tank now is not going to offer you the same answers as it could have before you did the change.  That is something I suggest checking regularly for anyone, as tap water and well water both will fluctuate during the course of the year, not only due to chemical treatments, but also as a result from weather changes, season changes, etc. I would wait at least a few weeks after this tank appears stable again before attempting to add more fish... and next time... use a QT.  The amount of time to set up a QT tank is less than what you have gone through in fish lost and unanswered questions... and potential problems now for the near future. Best of luck to you, I hope it gets better and isn't a long term problem. Dawn    --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > >   Okay so I lost about 10 fish this morning. I did a water change and > used my water conditioner that I always use. I removed a lot of plant > matter though (trimmed plants); is it possible that I may have removed > too much and that would cause fish deaths? > This is my 125 gallon tank that has been running for over a year now, so > I know it's fully cycled and all that. I did water changes in my 55 > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, so I don't think it was the > water change that my water company made (using chloramines instead of > just chlorine). I use stress coat for my water conditioner. I did add > new fish earlier this week (lost some of those last night too). > I lost a very hardy fish though which is why I'm slightly concerned as > to the cause. My Severum died this morning, all the fish were gasping at > the surface which made me wonder if it was an oxygen problem in the > water. I turned my power heads more towards the surface to cause more > surface agitation as well. > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if it's still in good condition > (need to get a new one, this test kit is now over a year old I think), > so I didn't bother using it to test the tank with. Honestly I hate all > these little bottles all over the place, I lose them or knock them on > the floor way too often, not to mention the glass tubes, LOL. I'm > surprised I haven't broken any of the test vials yet. I want an electric > test kit that tests all the water parameters, LOL. > I'm going out to the fish store today to see if they will replace the > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at the loss of so many fish, from > what I could tell it was mostly guppies and platties that I lost. Lost 2 > of my giant danio's that I just got, and 1 of the upside down catfish > that I got, and my Severum and all the guppies and platties. I hope I > didn't lose more as I can't tell because it's a heavily planted tank. > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise gourami that I bought too, but I > don't know since I haven't seen it in the tank. > What a crappy day. I watched the tank for over a half hour last night > after I finished my water changes and filter cleanings, the fish were > all very happy and looked just fine, whatever caused their deaths didn't > happen until this morning when the lights came back on. Hubby said my > severum was up at the surface when he came home for lunch at about 10:30 > am, when I went down at 11am to get coffee the severum was on the bottom > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. The lights come on at 8:30am. > I'm going to check the fish store for a new test kit but I doubt they > have anything but the dip strips... I can get those to test with if you > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure the tank isn't cycling or > anything odd. It's typically my most stable tank, most of my oldest fish > were in that tank :( > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49177	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Questions about fish deaths

I have done tap water baselines on my tap water, but not since they JUST changed the tap water at the end of August. I suppose I should do that again to see what they changed. Amber On 9/4/2010 6:25 AM, amphibian_ca wrote: > > I believe this has to do with the source water (tap water). Chloramine > increases ammonia. Water conditioners that detoxify ammonia do so by > changing it to ammonium which is basically harmless. But the > detoxifying ability of conditioners is strictly limited. I don't know > about the one you used, but Seachem's Prime for instance only works > for 24 hours according to Seachem when I asked them. That means that > after that period, any ammonia in the water will still remain. It also > means that in basic water (pH above 7) the ammonium will immediately > convert back into ammonia. > > Plants will take up (detoxify) ammonia to a certain extent, and of > course they assimilate some as ammonium for their primary source of > nitrogen. But a sudden influx of ammonia is overwhelming. > > The affect of this in the 125g would be greater than in the 55g due to > volume. Also other factors might influence it--number and type of fish > and plants, bacteria levels, etc. We all know that the toxic effects > of ammonia and nitrite can sometimes be slow to show up, especially > when the increase is minimal and more likely to build up in the fish. > > Temperature changes of 3 degrees will not adversely affect fish except > for the particularly sensitive species (Chocolate gourami comes to > mind). My 115g normally drops by 2-3 degrees every water change and > the 140 fish in it react by increased activity and spawning. > > I am not a chemist, but I suspect the above may be the answer. Also, > have you tested the tap water itself for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? I > have a griend in southern California who recently lost several fish in > the exact same manner you have, and it turned out to be ammonia at > 1ppm in the tap water that previously had zero ammonia. As chloramine > is ammonia-related, I offer this as a possible explanation. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > If it was the water source then my 55 gallon would have fish losses > > too. It's only the 125 gallon tank that lost fish. I cleaned my 55 > > gallon more (did 2 PWC's through the span of about 6 hours, and cleaned > > the gravel a bit around the plants since the snails poop a lot). So I > > actually cleaned the 55 gallon more than the 125 gallon, except I took > > more plants out of the 125 gallon while I was refilling the tank. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/3/2010 6:14 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Yes but even at that temperature, in that large a tank I doubt if > would > > > be too critical 80--78 range, especially since you did correct the > > > remaining portion > > > of the water change. Also I think you would look for the "Ick" > right away. > > > Last I remember it would cause the fish to itch or scratch, not > gasp at > > > the surface as you indicated. > > > > > > I am looking toward the water source. For now, I would not do anymore > > > PWC's until you re-examine that source and run up another water > > > baseline of it. If for no other reason, that to just rule it out as a > > > possible problem. Considering your previous remarks > > > about that source itself, they could very well have changed > > > something,and not tell you! > > > > > > No need in my getting into that test strip business------------API > > > -----vials and all. Hey! > > > They keep you aggravated don't they? Cheer-up! It's always darkest > > > before the dawn, I wear sun glass's alot so I should know. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish deaths > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:56 PM > > > > Add fish first, some yesterday > > > > (just the danio's and the gourami), I > > > > added the upside down catfish last week. I did the water > > > > change last > > > > night hours after adding the new fish. > > > > I've had the Severum for over a year, he was a nice big > > > > healthy and > > > > hardy fish. I guess I don't have to worry about feeding him > > > > anymore, LOL. > > > > The only difference was the water temp was too cold at > > > > first and I > > > > refilled a good 20-30 gallons with colder water, then > > > > stopped the water > > > > and changed it to the right temp. So the tank temps dropped > > > > a couple of > > > > degrees and them went back to normal. Would that cause a > > > > death 12-14 > > > > hours later though? Whatever caused these deaths was > > > > something that > > > > didn't happen right after the water change (the fish were > > > > fine after the > > > > water change). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:52 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber you have to re-call, "there was something you > > > > did different in > > > > > that 125". Also, as I am sure you are aware, Severums > > > > are a fairly > > > > > hardy fish and you have had this one for a while as I > > > > recall. They > > > > > don't go belly-up easily. > > > > > > > > > > Either your PWC water took a radical pH swing or > > > > something but then > > > > > you also said you did change the 55 at the same time > > > > and that tank is OK? > > > > > > > > > > Just so I have this story straight so far, you did the > > > > PWC and THEN > > > > > added the new fish or the new fish first and then the > > > > water change > > > > > later in the same day? > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > > > > deaths > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 9:32 PM > > > > > > > > > > I have never had the LFS fish cause fish deaths to > > > > current residents > > > > > of my tank, currently I've only lost new fish from > > > > either badly > > > > > acclimating them (in a hurry) or when I do a tank > > > > cleaning. SO something > > > > > I'm doing wrong is during the tank cleaning process > > > > and only something I > > > > > do on the 125 gallon tank... > > > > > One thing that was different last night is that when I > > > > first started > > > > > refilling the tank I noticed the water was a little > > > > too cold and I had > > > > > already refilled a good 20 gallons or more when I > > > > noticed it. So I fixed > > > > > the water temp to what the tank normally is so the > > > > water temp in the > > > > > tank dropped down to 78ish from 80ish... Could this > > > > little temp > > > > > fluccuation cause slow deaths? > > > > > The fish were fine for the hour or so after the water > > > > change that I > > > > > watched them for... No hovering at the surface, they > > > > were all eating and > > > > > foraging like normal. The acting "oddly" didn't come > > > > until early this > > > > > morning or sometime last night. The severum was still > > > > alive around > > > > > 10:30am, but dead by 11am. The other fish were found > > > > dead at 11am as > > > > > well... The lights turn on at 8:30am. I did not check > > > > my pH at the time > > > > > as I didn't have the dip strips yet and my master test > > > > kit is over a > > > > > year old now, I figured it's not going to be very > > > > accurate if I haven't > > > > > used it for a little while and I don't shake it all > > > > the time if I'm not > > > > > using it. > > > > > Yes I know I should quarantine my fish, but I didn't > > > > have the Q tank set > > > > > up and didn't feel like digging it out of my closet. > > > > My loss and my > > > > > money I guess, I like to learn everything the hard way > > > > a few times ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 5:10 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > Were the fish noticed to be breathing at the > > > > surface after your vigorous > > > > > > cleansing and prior to their death? If so, I > > > > might lean to the CO2 > > > > > theory, > > > > > > However, it would take more than a few hours for > > > > them to succumb to CO2 > > > > > > poisoning. Had you checked your pH when the > > > > problem was first noticed, a > > > > > > definitely lower pH than normal could be an > > > > indicator of a higher CO2 > > > > > > level. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will save you from the quarantine speech. I > > > > know you know better, > > > > > > and I am > > > > > > just as sure that someone out there is just dying > > > > to give it to you, > > > > > so I > > > > > > will let that person do so. They have my > > > > permission. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:26 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Questions about fish > > > > deaths > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm bad about quarantining my fish, every time > > > > I've done that they've > > > > > > died in my Q tank. But yes, all the fish that > > > > were new were added to the > > > > > > 125 gallon tank (not all at the same time, in a > > > > little over a weeks time > > > > > > frame I added the new fish). But whatever the > > > > problem is... it's only > > > > > > affecting my gill breathing fish. I don't know if > > > > my botia kubotai are > > > > > > surface breathers or not but they are very active > > > > and happy just like > > > > > > normal, so it's not affecting them either. They > > > > are also a scaleless > > > > > > fish, so they are more susceptible to things like > > > > ich. The 125 gallon > > > > > > may not be my Q tank, but it's as close as I can > > > > get to one, as that's > > > > > > where I typically put new fish and then move them > > > > if needed to my other > > > > > > tanks later. > > > > > > I'm thinking I removed too many plants last > > > > night, got too much into > > > > > > cleaning mode I guess. I do know that whatever > > > > happened happened over > > > > > > night and through the early morning. I'm guessing > > > > a CO2 build up from > > > > > > the new fish and then the loss of plants caused > > > > the CO2 to not get used > > > > > > up from the plants as fast as it normally would. > > > > > > How fast do fish die from CO2? Anyone know? LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/3/2010 4:20 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BUT---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > You Did Not put any of the new fish just > > > > bought, in any other tanks > > > > > > > did you? Unless I missed that part, all went > > > > into the 125? May I > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > they WERE NOT quarantined or is this your > > > > QT? A cycled tank does not > > > > > > > mean it cannot be contaminated by something, > > > > usually quite the > > > > > > > contrary! A good healthy tank is generally a > > > > good candidate for some > > > > > > > mysterious aliment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Questions about > > > > fish deaths > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 3:41 > > > > PM > > > > > > > > Okay so I lost about 10 fish > > > > > > > > this morning. I did a water change and > > > > > > > > used my water conditioner that I always > > > > use. I removed a > > > > > > > > lot of plant > > > > > > > > matter though (trimmed plants); is it > > > > possible that I may > > > > > > > > have removed > > > > > > > > too much and that would cause fish > > > > deaths? > > > > > > > > This is my 125 gallon tank that has > > > > been running for over a > > > > > > > > year now, so > > > > > > > > I know it's fully cycled and all that. > > > > I did water changes > > > > > > > > in my 55 > > > > > > > > gallon upstairs and had NO fish deaths, > > > > so I don't think it > > > > > > > > was the > > > > > > > > water change that my water company made > > > > (using chloramines > > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > just chlorine). I use stress coat for > > > > my water conditioner. > > > > > > > > I did add > > > > > > > > new fish earlier this week (lost some > > > > of those last night > > > > > > > > too). > > > > > > > > I lost a very hardy fish though which > > > > is why I'm slightly > > > > > > > > concerned as > > > > > > > > to the cause. My Severum died this > > > > morning, all the fish > > > > > > > > were gasping at > > > > > > > > the surface which made me wonder if it > > > > was an oxygen > > > > > > > > problem in the > > > > > > > > water. I turned my power heads more > > > > towards the surface to > > > > > > > > cause more > > > > > > > > surface agitation as well. > > > > > > > > My test kit is old and I'm not sure if > > > > it's still in good > > > > > > > > condition > > > > > > > > (need to get a new one, this test kit > > > > is now over a year > > > > > > > > old I think), > > > > > > > > so I didn't bother using it to test the > > > > tank with. Honestly > > > > > > > > I hate all > > > > > > > > these little bottles all over the > > > > place, I lose them or > > > > > > > > knock them on > > > > > > > > the floor way too often, not to mention > > > > the glass tubes, > > > > > > > > LOL. I'm > > > > > > > > surprised I haven't broken any of the > > > > test vials yet. I > > > > > > > > want an electric > > > > > > > > test kit that tests all the water > > > > parameters, LOL. > > > > > > > > I'm going out to the fish store today > > > > to see if they will > > > > > > > > replace the > > > > > > > > new fish I lost. I'm a little bummed at > > > > the loss of so many > > > > > > > > fish, from > > > > > > > > what I could tell it was mostly guppies > > > > and platties that I > > > > > > > > lost. Lost 2 > > > > > > > > of my giant danio's that I just got, > > > > and 1 of the upside > > > > > > > > down catfish > > > > > > > > that I got, and my Severum and all the > > > > guppies and > > > > > > > > platties. I hope I > > > > > > > > didn't lose more as I can't tell > > > > because it's a heavily > > > > > > > > planted tank. > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure I lost the paradise > > > > gourami that I bought > > > > > > > > too, but I > > > > > > > > don't know since I haven't seen it in > > > > the tank. > > > > > > > > What a crappy day. I watched the tank > > > > for over a half hour > > > > > > > > last night > > > > > > > > after I finished my water changes and > > > > filter cleanings, the > > > > > > > > fish were > > > > > > > > all very happy and looked just fine, > > > > whatever caused their > > > > > > > > deaths didn't > > > > > > > > happen until this morning when the > > > > lights came back on. > > > > > > > > Hubby said my > > > > > > > > severum was up at the surface when he > > > > came home for lunch > > > > > > > > at about 10:30 > > > > > > > > am, when I went down at 11am to get > > > > coffee the severum was > > > > > > > > on the bottom > > > > > > > > of the tank dead... Died that quickly. > > > > The lights come on > > > > > > > > at 8:30am. > > > > > > > > I'm going to check the fish store for a > > > > new test kit but I > > > > > > > > doubt they > > > > > > > > have anything but the dip strips... I > > > > can get those to test > > > > > > > > with if you > > > > > > > > guys want numbers, but I'm pretty sure > > > > the tank isn't > > > > > > > > cycling or > > > > > > > > anything odd. It's typically my most > > > > stable tank, most of > > > > > > > > my oldest fish > > > > > > > > were in that tank :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > > > is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was > > > > re: old subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > > > of unsubscribing, > > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > > > "Edit My > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > receive the digest, > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > > > > email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option > > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the > > > > group and post > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to > > > > receive individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49178	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Slight emergency question:)

I have been trying to breed licorice gouramis for months now, and tonight I see my first baby in a cave!!! I'm so excited I can barely hold the flashlight to view the little guy. He's in there with his dad. My question is, should I be feeding him while he's in the cave and if so, how? It has to be infusoria sized - I have some infusoria made and also some vinegar eels. But I can't really access the cave in such a way to shoot food into the cave. Should I just put infusoria and vinegar eels in the tank water and hope for the best? Thank you all... Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49179	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Slight emergency question:)

Do you have a turkey baster or something similar that you can use to squirt the food near the cave? If not I would just add it as near by as you can, some should float that way. Amber On 9/4/2010 6:48 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I have been trying to breed licorice gouramis for months now, and > tonight I see my first baby in a cave!!! > > I'm so excited I can barely hold the flashlight to view the little > guy. He's in there with his dad. > > My question is, should I be feeding him while he's in the cave and if > so, how? It has to be infusoria sized - I have some infusoria made > and also some vinegar eels. But I can't really access the cave in > such a way to shoot food into the cave. Should I just put infusoria > and vinegar eels in the tank water and hope for the best? > > Thank you all... > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49180	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Slight emergency question:)

I know this sounds ridiculous, but do you think I should keep the lights on overnight so the baby(ies) can see to eat? It's so dark in there. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Sep 4, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > Do you have a turkey baster or something similar that you can use to > squirt the food near the cave? > If not I would just add it as near by as you can, some should float > that > way. > > Amber > > On 9/4/2010 6:48 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: >> >> I have been trying to breed licorice gouramis for months now, and >> tonight I see my first baby in a cave!!! >> >> I'm so excited I can barely hold the flashlight to view the little >> guy. He's in there with his dad. >> >> My question is, should I be feeding him while he's in the cave and if >> so, how? It has to be infusoria sized - I have some infusoria made >> and also some vinegar eels. But I can't really access the cave in >> such a way to shoot food into the cave. Should I just put infusoria >> and vinegar eels in the tank water and hope for the best? >> >> Thank you all... >> >> Lainey >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > ((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > ´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e- > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49181	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/4/2010
Subject: Re: Slight emergency question:)

Do you not have night lights on the tank? I'm assuming no since you're asking. You can always put a light on near the tank but not actually shining into the tank, that will keep enough room light so that it's enough for the babies to see by. I do this for my angelfish tank, there is a light shining through the background that just barely lights the background up with a soft glow. I just use a regular incandescent bulb or one of the CFL bulbs that fit into an incandescent light socket works great too. Amber On 9/4/2010 6:53 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > I know this sounds ridiculous, but do you think I should keep the > lights on overnight so the baby(ies) can see to eat? It's so dark in > there. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Sep 4, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > Do you have a turkey baster or something similar that you can use to > > squirt the food near the cave? > > If not I would just add it as near by as you can, some should float > > that > > way. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/4/2010 6:48 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > >> > >> I have been trying to breed licorice gouramis for months now, and > >> tonight I see my first baby in a cave!!! > >> > >> I'm so excited I can barely hold the flashlight to view the little > >> guy. He's in there with his dad. > >> > >> My question is, should I be feeding him while he's in the cave and if > >> so, how? It has to be infusoria sized - I have some infusoria made > >> and also some vinegar eels. But I can't really access the cave in > >> such a way to shoot food into the cave. Should I just put infusoria > >> and vinegar eels in the tank water and hope for the best? > >> > >> Thank you all... > >> > >> Lainey > >> http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..>< > > ((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><· > > ´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option where you will still be able to read messages on the group > > and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e- > > mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49182	From: oplc_faceter	Date: 9/7/2010
Subject: Tannins, Black Water, pH...

Greetings fish keepers, My wife and I are establishing a 55 gallon freshwater tank that in which we'd like to try keeping some angelfish. Unfortunately our tap water comes from an aquifer in central Illinois where the bedrock is limestone/dolomite. Our water is alkaline with an out of the faucet pH of about 8.2, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH (~50 ppm) and a carbonate hardness of about 13 degrees KH (~230 ppm). I've home-brewed a recirculating "black water" peat moss filter to pre-treat water we'll be using for water changes on the angelfish tank. The water coming out of this filter tests at a pH of 6 (or lower). The peat moss treatment doesn't seem to be affecting the general hardness measurably, but it is lowering the carbonate hardness to about 3 degrees KH. So it appears a mixture of our tap water and the peat moss treated water should be viable to provide the angelfish with slightly acidic and softer water. A preliminary test using 50% tap water and 50% peat filtered water measured a pH of about 6.8, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH, and a carbonate hardness of about 7 degrees KH. We set up the tank with tap water and I've started doing 5 gallon water changes using peat moss filtered "black water". The pH and carbonate hardness are dropping, although not as fast as I expected. The tannins introduced by the peat moss filter are significantly staining the water. Unfortunately my wife finds the appearance of "black water" highly objectionable. She calls it "pee water". I've read that activated carbon can be used to remove tannin staining and clarify "black water". I think I may already be seeing some overnight clarifying effect from the activated carbon in the cartridges in the two Aqua-Tech 30-60 power filters we have running on the tank. If activated carbon does remove the tannin staining, I could build an activated carbon filter to "unblacken" the "black water" produced by the peat moss filter before it gets added to the tank. However, I'm not entirely clear on the chemistry involved and the relationship of the tannins causing the water staining to the acidifying effect of peat moss filtering. If the stain causing tannins are removed from "black water" by activated carbon or some other method, will the pH and/or carbonate hardness increase as a result? If so, we may just be spinning our wheels using activated carbon to remove the stain. I'm hoping that some fish keepers with more "black water" experience than myself can address the relationships between tannins, water staining and pH/hardness. I'm somewhat out of my element with "black water" as my previous aquarium experience is centered primarily on African cichlids. I'm also wondering how alkaline and hard water can be and still be viable to sustain angelfish. My wife really has her heart set on angelfish and I want to accommodate her with a tank she'll enjoy. Thanks in advance for any help and advice, Bob and Karen Edinburg, Illinos

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49183	From: Aaron Martin	Date: 9/7/2010
Subject: {Off Topic} Migration to NEW Yahoo! Groups Begins

From: GroupManagersForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 4:47 AM   FROM THE Y!GROUPS TEAM BLOG: http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/?p=722 --------------------------------- It's finally time to share the start of our makeover with you! Starting today in the US version of Yahoo! Groups, we're releasing the first of several updates. One place to do it all: Stay up-to-date and never a miss a beat with the new homepage. Simplified posting: Easily post messages and photos to your group. Keep up with the conversation: Read and respond to entire conversations effortlessly. Intuitive, faster photo sharing: Share, upload, and view tons of photos in a snap. Instantly get in touch: Chat with fellow group members without leaving your group. (18 and older only) You can learn more about these changes here. You'll notice that some areas still look the same. We've tackled the most popular "rooms" first and will be remodeling the others in the coming months. If you haven't seen the changes yet, don't worry – we are slowly rolling it out and they'll be available in your group soon. If you use a local version (non-U.S.) version of Groups, the same remodel will be available to you within the next few weeks. You might notice that your Group might switch between versions as we complete all of the group migrations. Stay tuned to the blog for the latest news as we continue our renovation. And we're eager to hear your feedback, both on the suggestions board and here on the blog. Thank again for your continued support! The Yahoo! Groups team --------------------------------------- .   ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. stop by and see ~ membership is Free! http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((><

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49184	From: Ray	Date: 9/7/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...

Hi Bob and Karen, Welcome to the Group. Concerning Angelfish, unless you plan on breeding them, there's no need to go all through making peat water and mixing it with your tap water. Angelfish will adapt and live in water even higher than yours in pH and KH if their acclimated to the water slowly. Since they're in water quite a bit different now, you'll have to re-adjust their water slowly until it's back at tap water parameters -- over the course of a number of your next PWC's (partial water changes). There's a hobbyist I know, on another Yahoo group, who has had Angels for years in a pH of 8.5 and as hard as a rock, with a high KH as well. The fish have even bred but the eggs have never hatched as a result of the high conductivity. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "oplc_faceter" <yahoogroups@...> wrote: > > Greetings fish keepers, > > My wife and I are establishing a 55 gallon freshwater tank that in which we'd like to try keeping some angelfish. Unfortunately our tap water comes from an aquifer in central Illinois where the bedrock is limestone/dolomite. Our water is alkaline with an out of the faucet pH of about 8.2, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH (~50 ppm) and a carbonate hardness of about 13 degrees KH (~230 ppm). > > I've home-brewed a recirculating "black water" peat moss filter to pre-treat water we'll be using for water changes on the angelfish tank. The water coming out of this filter tests at a pH of 6 (or lower). The peat moss treatment doesn't seem to be affecting the general hardness measurably, but it is lowering the carbonate hardness to about 3 degrees KH. So it appears a mixture of our tap water and the peat moss treated water should be viable to provide the angelfish with slightly acidic and softer water. A preliminary test using 50% tap water and 50% peat filtered water measured a pH of about 6.8, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH, and a carbonate hardness of about 7 degrees KH. > > We set up the tank with tap water and I've started doing 5 gallon water changes using peat moss filtered "black water". The pH and carbonate hardness are dropping, although not as fast as I expected. The tannins introduced by the peat moss filter are significantly staining the water. Unfortunately my wife finds the appearance of "black water" highly objectionable. She calls it "pee water". > > I've read that activated carbon can be used to remove tannin staining and clarify "black water". I think I may already be seeing some overnight clarifying effect from the activated carbon in the cartridges in the two Aqua-Tech 30-60 power filters we have running on the tank. If activated carbon does remove the tannin staining, I could build an activated carbon filter to "unblacken" the "black water" produced by the peat moss filter before it gets added to the tank. > > However, I'm not entirely clear on the chemistry involved and the relationship of the tannins causing the water staining to the acidifying effect of peat moss filtering. If the stain causing tannins are removed from "black water" by activated carbon or some other method, will the pH and/or carbonate hardness increase as a result? If so, we may just be spinning our wheels using activated carbon to remove the stain. > > I'm hoping that some fish keepers with more "black water" experience than myself can address the relationships between tannins, water staining and pH/hardness. I'm somewhat out of my element with "black water" as my previous aquarium experience is centered primarily on African cichlids. > > I'm also wondering how alkaline and hard water can be and still be viable to sustain angelfish. My wife really has her heart set on angelfish and I want to accommodate her with a tank she'll enjoy. > > Thanks in advance for any help and advice, > > Bob and Karen > Edinburg, Illinos >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49185	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/7/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...

Bob and Karen, Properly acclimated, your angel fish will live in your hard, basic water (alkaline is really a misnomer, and actually refers to hardness). The fish may not live as long, and they may not breed, or have very large broods if they do breed. A 55 would be a good sized tank for a pair of full grown angles (6-9" SL, 9-12" high from tip of dorsal to tip of anal).with, perhaps a pair or trio of larger livebearers, and a wise choice of a pleco type catfish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of oplc_faceter Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 2:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tannins, Black Water, pH... Greetings fish keepers, My wife and I are establishing a 55 gallon freshwater tank that in which we'd like to try keeping some angelfish. Unfortunately our tap water comes from an aquifer in central Illinois where the bedrock is limestone/dolomite. Our water is alkaline with an out of the faucet pH of about 8.2, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH (~50 ppm) and a carbonate hardness of about 13 degrees KH (~230 ppm). I've home-brewed a recirculating "black water" peat moss filter to pre-treat water we'll be using for water changes on the angelfish tank. The water coming out of this filter tests at a pH of 6 (or lower). The peat moss treatment doesn't seem to be affecting the general hardness measurably, but it is lowering the carbonate hardness to about 3 degrees KH. So it appears a mixture of our tap water and the peat moss treated water should be viable to provide the angelfish with slightly acidic and softer water. A preliminary test using 50% tap water and 50% peat filtered water measured a pH of about 6.8, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH, and a carbonate hardness of about 7 degrees KH. We set up the tank with tap water and I've started doing 5 gallon water changes using peat moss filtered "black water". The pH and carbonate hardness are dropping, although not as fast as I expected. The tannins introduced by the peat moss filter are significantly staining the water. Unfortunately my wife finds the appearance of "black water" highly objectionable. She calls it "pee water". I've read that activated carbon can be used to remove tannin staining and clarify "black water". I think I may already be seeing some overnight clarifying effect from the activated carbon in the cartridges in the two Aqua-Tech 30-60 power filters we have running on the tank. If activated carbon does remove the tannin staining, I could build an activated carbon filter to "unblacken" the "black water" produced by the peat moss filter before it gets added to the tank. However, I'm not entirely clear on the chemistry involved and the relationship of the tannins causing the water staining to the acidifying effect of peat moss filtering. If the stain causing tannins are removed from "black water" by activated carbon or some other method, will the pH and/or carbonate hardness increase as a result? If so, we may just be spinning our wheels using activated carbon to remove the stain. I'm hoping that some fish keepers with more "black water" experience than myself can address the relationships between tannins, water staining and pH/hardness. I'm somewhat out of my element with "black water" as my previous aquarium experience is centered primarily on African cichlids. I'm also wondering how alkaline and hard water can be and still be viable to sustain angelfish. My wife really has her heart set on angelfish and I want to accommodate her with a tank she'll enjoy. Thanks in advance for any help and advice, Bob and Karen Edinburg, Illinos

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49186	From: greychildren	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Firecons

For the ones interested in Hybrids..and Baby update here is a video for your enjoyment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1g7iYzfUk

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49187	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

Very nice.  Question?  I must have missed one of your past postings?   Hybrids?  Hybrids of what please?   Bill --- On Wed, 9/8/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> wrote: From: greychildren <greychildren@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Firecons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 6:22 AM For the ones interested in Hybrids..and Baby update here is a video for your enjoyment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1g7iYzfUk ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49188	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

Bill   Male pink Convict + Female Firemouth cichilds. I remember you were interested in them but last time your looked at them they were tiny..lol --- On Wed, 9/8/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 9:14 AM   Very nice.  Question?  I must have missed one of your past postings?   Hybrids?  Hybrids of what please?   Bill --- On Wed, 9/8/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> wrote: From: greychildren <greychildren@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Firecons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 6:22 AM For the ones interested in Hybrids..and Baby update here is a video for your enjoyment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1g7iYzfUk ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49189	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

Thank you! Either a bad memory here or too many groups! I remember now but also, on the video just posted, how old are they? They look good. Bill --- On Wed, 9/8/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 10:45 AM > Bill >   > Male pink Convict + Female Firemouth cichilds. I remember > you were interested in them but last time your looked at > them they were tiny..lol > > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 9:14 AM > > >   > > > > Very nice.  Question?  I must have missed one of your > past postings? >   > Hybrids?  Hybrids of what please? >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > From: greychildren <greychildren@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 6:22 AM > > For the ones interested in Hybrids..and Baby update here is > a video for your enjoyment. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1g7iYzfUk > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49190	From: barb_okla@att.net	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...

What I did on moving from having RO/DI water to NO RO water to regular tap, with tap paramiters just like yours, high Ph, gh/kh out the roof!! I just acclimated them into this water when I got them here and their 35gal Hex set back up... I did add in their water from the container, a 25qt? storage container.. They are now in their 35 gal Hex for 3 weeks now and doing fine.. I also have 2 sets of Kribs, 2 albino cories/bristle nose plecos too. they are all doing fine and eating great.. I have LIVE Vels plants in their too!! I see however, the Kribs not spawning at all in this water. HUMMM.. As I am moving some big double tanks, I really do not have the extra tanks for fry right now anyway. but I see the hard water COULD be the problem.. I have other south americans, blue eyed cutteri, but they were never in the RO water so they are doing fine.. My angels are 4 Platinum, very nice. I wil post some pics later.. As said, if U do not want to breed them, they they wil do fine.. IF U want to go through the hassel of raising FRY, then U need to READ up on what U are going to go through. U wil need another tank.. On your return water, run the carbon in a filter and TEST the Ph/hardness again daily to see if it changes any. That is the only way to see if any changes are taking place as far as Ph/GH/KH are concerned. U need to get the KH down under the GH or the Ph wil crash later.. As far as I know using carbon, it should ONLY take out the color, not change the paramiters of the water. that takes other chemicals to do that.. IF U want to not go through this, invest in a RO filtering unit. An house RO unit wil do the same and NOT cost as much. That is what I am going to get.. FYI.. Hope this helps U some.. Barb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Bob and Karen, Welcome to the Group. Concerning Angelfish, unless you plan on breeding them, there's no need to go all through making peat water and mixing it with your tap water. Angelfish will adapt and live in water even higher than yours in pH and KH if their acclimated to the water slowly. Since they're in water quite a bit different now, you'll have to re-adjust their water slowly until it's back at tap water parameters -- over the course of a number of your next PWC's (partial water changes). There's a hobbyist I know, on another Yahoo group, who has had Angels for years in a pH of 8.5 and as hard as a rock, with a high KH as well. The fish have even bred but the eggs have never hatched as a result of the high conductivity. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "oplc_faceter" <yahoogroups@> wrote: > > > > Greetings fish keepers, > > > > My wife and I are establishing a 55 gallon freshwater tank that in which we'd like to try keeping some angelfish. Unfortunately our tap water comes from an aquifer in central Illinois where the bedrock is limestone/dolomite. Our water is alkaline with an out of the faucet pH of about 8.2, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH (~50 ppm) and a carbonate hardness of about 13 degrees KH (~230 ppm). > > > > I've home-brewed a recirculating "black water" peat moss filter to pre-treat water we'll be using for water changes on the angelfish tank. The water coming out of this filter tests at a pH of 6 (or lower). The peat moss treatment doesn't seem to be affecting the general hardness measurably, but it is lowering the carbonate hardness to about 3 degrees KH. So it appears a mixture of our tap water and the peat moss treated water should be viable to provide the angelfish with slightly acidic and softer water. A preliminary test using 50% tap water and 50% peat filtered water measured a pH of about 6.8, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH, and a carbonate hardness of about 7 degrees KH. > > > > We set up the tank with tap water and I've started doing 5 gallon water changes using peat moss filtered "black water". The pH and carbonate hardness are dropping, although not as fast as I expected. The tannins introduced by the peat moss filter are significantly staining the water. Unfortunately my wife finds the appearance of "black water" highly objectionable. She calls it "pee water". > > > > I've read that activated carbon can be used to remove tannin staining and clarify "black water". I think I may already be seeing some overnight clarifying effect from the activated carbon in the cartridges in the two Aqua-Tech 30-60 power filters we have running on the tank. If activated carbon does remove the tannin staining, I could build an activated carbon filter to "unblacken" the "black water" produced by the peat moss filter before it gets added to the tank. > > > > However, I'm not entirely clear on the chemistry involved and the relationship of the tannins causing the water staining to the acidifying effect of peat moss filtering. If the stain causing tannins are removed from "black water" by activated carbon or some other method, will the pH and/or carbonate hardness increase as a result? If so, we may just be spinning our wheels using activated carbon to remove the stain. > > > > I'm hoping that some fish keepers with more "black water" experience than myself can address the relationships between tannins, water staining and pH/hardness. I'm somewhat out of my element with "black water" as my previous aquarium experience is centered primarily on African cichlids. > > > > I'm also wondering how alkaline and hard water can be and still be viable to sustain angelfish. My wife really has her heart set on angelfish and I want to accommodate her with a tank she'll enjoy. > > > > Thanks in advance for any help and advice, > > > > Bob and Karen > > Edinburg, Illinos > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49191	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

3 to 4 motnhs old im running out of space already giving out about tweenty of them --- On Wed, 9/8/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 11:26 AM   Thank you! Either a bad memory here or too many groups! I remember now but also, on the video just posted, how old are they? They look good. Bill --- On Wed, 9/8/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 10:45 AM > Bill >   > Male pink Convict + Female Firemouth cichilds. I remember > you were interested in them but last time your looked at > them they were tiny..lol > > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 9:14 AM > > >   > > > > Very nice.  Question?  I must have missed one of your > past postings? >   > Hybrids?  Hybrids of what please? >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > From: greychildren <greychildren@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 6:22 AM > > For the ones interested in Hybrids..and Baby update here is > a video for your enjoyment. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1g7iYzfUk > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49192	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

Bill   I have another worry i was told that ciclihd males release a growth hormone when there done growing causing growth stunning on the rest of the males in the tank. --- On Wed, 9/8/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 11:26 AM   Thank you! Either a bad memory here or too many groups! I remember now but also, on the video just posted, how old are they? They look good. Bill --- On Wed, 9/8/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 10:45 AM > Bill >   > Male pink Convict + Female Firemouth cichilds. I remember > you were interested in them but last time your looked at > them they were tiny..lol > > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 9:14 AM > > >   > > > > Very nice.  Question?  I must have missed one of your > past postings? >   > Hybrids?  Hybrids of what please? >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > From: greychildren <greychildren@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 6:22 AM > > For the ones interested in Hybrids..and Baby update here is > a video for your enjoyment. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1g7iYzfUk > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49193	From: john Lewis	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

Hello:    Good video, nice healthy babies.  Thanx for sharing.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: greychildren <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 6:22:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Firecons   For the ones interested in Hybrids..and Baby update here is a video for your enjoyment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1g7iYzfUk [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49194	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

I'm not sure how busy Ray Wetzel from this group is today but I think he may add comment to this shortly.  Take it easy for now and I would not believe to much until he has had a chance to respond here.   Ray is very knowledgeable about Chiclids, even hybrids or crossed breeding, having many years in the hobby.  I would trust his judgment and heed his advise he's been doing this a long time.   Bill --- On Wed, 9/8/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 11:45 AM > Bill > ﾂ� > Iﾂ�have another worry i was told that ciclihd males > release a growthﾂ�hormone when there done growing > causing growthﾂ�stunning on the rest ofﾂ�the males > in the tank. > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 11:26 AM > > > ﾂ� > > > > Thank you! Either a bad memory here or too many groups! > I remember now but also, on the video just posted, how old > are they? They look good. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> > wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 10:45 AM > > Bill > > ﾃつ� > > Male pink Convict + Female Firemouth cichilds. I > remember > > you were interested in them but last time your looked > at > > them they were tiny..lol > > > > > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 9:14 AM > > > > > > ﾃつ� > > > > > > > > Very nice.ﾃつ� Question?ﾃつ� I must have > missed one of your > > past postings? > > ﾃつ� > > Hybrids?ﾃつ� Hybrids of what please? > > ﾃつ� > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, greychildren <greychildren@...> > > wrote: > > > > From: greychildren <greychildren@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Firecons > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 6:22 AM > > > > For the ones interested in Hybrids..and Baby update > here is > > a video for your enjoyment. > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1g7iYzfUk > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.><((((ﾃつｺ>.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ><((((ﾃつｺ> > > > ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. > , > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..><((((ﾃつｺ> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <ﾃつｺ((((><.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. > > , > > > .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..<ﾃつｺ((((><ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.ﾃつ� > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ﾂ� ﾂ� ﾂ� > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.><((((ﾂｺ>.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ><((((ﾂｺ> > > ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. , > .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..><((((ﾂｺ> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <ﾂｺ((((><.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. > > , > .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.ﾂ� > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts > at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ﾂ� ﾂ� AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸｸ.><((((ｺ>.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸｸ.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸ><((((ｺ> > ｸ.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸ. , > .ｷｴｯ`ｷ..><((((ｺ> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <ｺ((((><.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸｸ.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸ<ｺ((((><ｸ.ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸ. > , .ｷｴｯ`ｷ..<ｺ((((><ｷｴｯ`ｷ.ｸｸ. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49195	From: Sam Palermo	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Bloated Gold fish in pond

Hello Fish Persons, I have had a pond for about 17 years and this year I observed a Gold Fish that looks like a goldfish with a tennis ball inside. It is still swimming around and feeding. I wonder that if there is anything to be done to correct this condition other than Fish surgery which is probably an impossibility. If this just a blockage- I initially though it was having babies. Any advise? Sam, Chicago area [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49196	From: William M	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

It is not just the grown males that give out hormones that inhibit the growth but most if not all fish will give out growth inhibiting hormones. this is just another reason why water changes are important to crowning fish to their maximum size in aquariums or other bodies of water. You have probably seen goldfish living(?) in small tanks and not getting very large. This is because of these growth inhibiting hormones. It does not matter if it is a hybrid or not they all give off this hormone. Personally I would not sell or give any of these fish away (because they are hybrids) unless the people know that they are hybrids and do not try to breed them. There are enough full species cichlids (as well as others fishes) that you can find one (or more) to suit your tanks. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > I'm not sure how busy Ray Wetzel from this group is today but I think he may add > comment to this shortly.  Take it easy for now and I would not believe to much until he > has had a chance to respond here. >   > Ray is very knowledgeable about Chiclids, even hybrids or crossed breeding, having > many years in the hobby.  I would trust his judgment and heed his advise he's been doing this a long time. >   > Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49197	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

thank you john --- On Wed, 9/8/10, john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> wrote: From: john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Firecons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 12:05 PM         Hello:    Good video, nice healthy babies.  Thanx for sharing.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: greychildren <greychildren@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 6:22:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Firecons   For the ones interested in Hybrids..and Baby update here is a video for your enjoyment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1g7iYzfUk [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49198	From: Ray	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...

\\Steve//, Couldn't help but notice, your mentioning in your reference to basic water, that you state that the term "alkaline" is a misnomer for it. Not sure why you even brought up this term, although I did use it in my reply in this same thread a few hours before you posted -- but I don't know whether you caught it there. In any case, as you may recall, we've all discussed this term and the very similar term, "alkalinity," many times in the past -- each term having very different meanings. I know that you've stated this same thing concerning "alkaline" several times before, but I'm proposing that you may just be confusing these two terms again, as has been done before by many. Perhaps I could have used the term, "basic," in my post, which may have been less confusing to the uninitiated here -- as I maintain they both mean the same (and can be used interchangeably). But I guess I must have just assumed that most of the members have seen all the past posts on this issue, defining these terms' usages, and thought they would have been familiar with them by now -- but I guess they could have forgotten by this time. If your full intention however, was to state that "alkaline" is a misnomer for basic, I regret that I feel I must differ from you on this, even as I usually support and recognize your knowledge store in aquarium matters. For what I feel is for the benefit of the reading members, I hold that "alkaline" is associated with pH, while "alkalinity" is associated with Hardness -- just as you've also introduced the term here -- more specifically, Temporary Hardness (KH - buffering capacity - Carbonate Hardness). The two terms appear very similar but have vastly different meanings. Again, I still regret having to dispute the matter, but would find the need to only if this is your position, for what I feel is clarification to the members. Getting back to past discussions on these two terms, I have seen you taking a similar stance in the past, although I still don't know if you had just inadvertantly replaced one term for the other in those replies. To help in directing you to those posts, as a refresher, I noticed your similar content in, I believe, Message # 28944 if I'm not mistaken and also -- I think - Message # 27546. As I mentioned, we've all (Lenny, you, I and others) discussed this before with the members over the years, and I browsed through some 50 message I came across in the archives (there may be more, but I hadn't come across them). I've gleaned some excerpts from them, going back chronologically, and while I tried not to use anything out of context I've attempted to pull what was relevant and leave the extraneous matter behind as some posts were very lengthy. I'm hoping this dialog will dispel any misinterpretations of these terms. Any remarks I'm making following your messages that I've found are written below the messages I'm referring to. Leading with your Message # 28955, on August 4, 2008 -- "Alkalinity is a measurement of the buffering capacity of water or the capacity of bases to neutralize acids. When it is used in conjunction with water it refers to the capacity the water has to resist a change in the pH." I'll go along with this description of "alkalinity," even while you haven't described "alkaline" here. Added to this general subject (not all in the same thread), I note in your Message # 28615, on July 10, 2008, you saying -- "KH measures the alkalinity of water. Don't get this confused with pH, where most people use alkaline to denote water with a high pH." As you hadn't followed up in this with anything to the contrary, or suggested that most people should not use "alkaline" when denoting water with a high pH, it does appear to me that you're condoning this term's usage in this aspect, or I would have expected you not to bring this term up at all -- and may even have expect an additional statement here describing both terms as being similar, if this was your purpose in binging up "alkaline," but I didn't see anything further. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here, but I don't get anything else out of it other than it appears you're going along with most people when they denote water with a high pH as being "alkaline." I'll move to your Message # 28155, on June 2, 2008, where you stated -- "Now here comes the hard part to understand, mainly because of the use and misuse of the term. That term is alkalinity. Alkalinity is not a term to be used when referring to pH. It is misused when you refer to a high pH level as being alkaline. It really is more base. Alkalinity is a measurement of the buffering capacity of the water." \\Steve//, I'll of course certainly go along with your description in the above term of "alkalinity" as not being a term to be used when referring to pH, and is a measurement of the buffering capacity, just as you stated. But you have not given the description for "alkaline" here, which is another term used when talking about water parameters and an entirely different term. I DO NOTE THOUGH -- that you do indeed refer here to a high level of pH as being ALKALINE. On April 29, 2008, Lenny points out -- in his Message # 27542, that -- "Alkaline and acid are the two terms used to indicate pH levels above and below 7.0 (which is neutral). I think even better terms would be acid or base." I can't argue with Lenny here, and fully support everything he states, including that "alkaline" is one of the terms used to indicate a pH level. A better term could be base (actually, "basic" would even be more fitting -- there is a difference), but there's no reason why "alkaline" should not be perfectly acceptable. Our own Aaron (our Group Site Owner) stated on August 23, 2007 in his Message # 23671 -- "So i bought a bunch of test kits and additives and tried to 'Manipulate' the Water parameters to fit what I thought it should be, the more I messed with it the worse it got, now I want to believe 'less is more' and just keep it as simple as possible without being irresponsible, so I figured I would stick to the R/O water because of all the chemicals in the tap including chloramine and the tap is really hard and alkaline (about 8+ pH)." Noticing Aaron uses "alkaline" to denote pH ! If he uses it, it's good 'nough for me (LOL). Clinching my use of "alkaline" for referring to pH though, is your post of January 21, 2007, as your Message # 20479, in which you stated -- "Looking at the most recent water quality reports (2005) available on the web site, and the water in NYC looks to be very good. The water is slighty alkaline, on average, coming into the system, but has low alkalinity, which means that playing with the pH could lead to a pH crash pretty quickly." I note HERE TOO, that you use two terms, one (ALKALINE) obviously in referring to pH, and the other (ALKALINITY) in referring to buffering capacity -- as noted by your warning of not to play with the pH. Topping all of this off, I noted on November 23, 2004 that you stated in your Message # 7029 -- "It is not the softness of the water that makes the pH unstable, it is the buffering capacity of the water that does. Water can be very soft, yet have a high pH, while conversely, water can be very hard and have a low pH. The buffering capacity of the water is called alkalinity (no relation to the alkaline we use to refer to water that is over 7 pH . . . )" I sure go along with everything you said here, as I see by this it's the term "alkaline" that YOU ("we," as in you statement) use to refer to water with a pH over 7.0. As you're including yourself here, I have to go along with the notion that "alkaline" refers to a pH (above neutral), just as you stated it. Who am I to argue about this with you, when you said the same thing as I already did < G >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Bob and Karen, > > Properly acclimated, your angel fish will live in your hard, basic water > (alkaline is really a misnomer, and actually refers to hardness). The fish > may not live as long, and they may not breed, or have very large broods if > they do breed. > > A 55 would be a good sized tank for a pair of full grown angles (6-9" SL, > 9-12" high from tip of dorsal to tip of anal).with, perhaps a pair or trio > of larger livebearers, and a wise choice of a pleco type catfish. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of oplc_faceter > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 2:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tannins, Black Water, pH... > > Greetings fish keepers, > > My wife and I are establishing a 55 gallon freshwater tank that in which > we'd like to try keeping some angelfish. Unfortunately our tap water comes > from an aquifer in central Illinois where the bedrock is limestone/dolomite. > Our water is alkaline with an out of the faucet pH of about 8.2, a general > hardness of about 3 degrees GH (~50 ppm) and a carbonate hardness of about > 13 degrees KH (~230 ppm). > > I've home-brewed a recirculating "black water" peat moss filter to pre-treat > water we'll be using for water changes on the angelfish tank. The water > coming out of this filter tests at a pH of 6 (or lower). The peat moss > treatment doesn't seem to be affecting the general hardness measurably, but > it is lowering the carbonate hardness to about 3 degrees KH. So it appears a > mixture of our tap water and the peat moss treated water should be viable to > provide the angelfish with slightly acidic and softer water. A preliminary > test using 50% tap water and 50% peat filtered water measured a pH of about > 6.8, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH, and a carbonate hardness of > about 7 degrees KH. > > We set up the tank with tap water and I've started doing 5 gallon water > changes using peat moss filtered "black water". The pH and carbonate > hardness are dropping, although not as fast as I expected. The tannins > introduced by the peat moss filter are significantly staining the water. > Unfortunately my wife finds the appearance of "black water" highly > objectionable. She calls it "pee water". > > I've read that activated carbon can be used to remove tannin staining and > clarify "black water". I think I may already be seeing some overnight > clarifying effect from the activated carbon in the cartridges in the two > Aqua-Tech 30-60 power filters we have running on the tank. If activated > carbon does remove the tannin staining, I could build an activated carbon > filter to "unblacken" the "black water" produced by the peat moss filter > before it gets added to the tank. > > However, I'm not entirely clear on the chemistry involved and the > relationship of the tannins causing the water staining to the acidifying > effect of peat moss filtering. If the stain causing tannins are removed from > "black water" by activated carbon or some other method, will the pH and/or > carbonate hardness increase as a result? If so, we may just be spinning our > wheels using activated carbon to remove the stain. > > I'm hoping that some fish keepers with more "black water" experience than > myself can address the relationships between tannins, water staining and > pH/hardness. I'm somewhat out of my element with "black water" as my > previous aquarium experience is centered primarily on African cichlids. > > I'm also wondering how alkaline and hard water can be and still be viable to > sustain angelfish. My wife really has her heart set on angelfish and I want > to accommodate her with a tank she'll enjoy. > > Thanks in advance for any help and advice, > > Bob and Karen > Edinburg, Illinos >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49199	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...

Ray, No one is perfect <g>. I do fall into the trap myself, hearing and reading it so often, even from people who should know better, like myself. Even though it is confusing to use with pH, I fear it may be more confusing to many not to use the term alkaline with reference to a high pH. I learned a long time ago in a science class that something with a high pH (more than 7.0) is a base, and anything with a low pH is an acid. For some reason acid has stuck in the hobby, but base (or other forms with base as a root) has not. I did see your message later, for some reason when I sorted by subject, your message was not shown with the original message, and I did see it later last night. I did note, when I snuck a peek at my messages while at work today (it has been slow this week) that Bob and Karen had left another message, but I apparently deleted it, since I do not see it among the 200+ in my Inbox tonight. I'll have to look for it later, since I did want to write a reply to them. Also, if you did not know already, now you know why those Mid-Westerners like to keep rift lake cichlids. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 5:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH... \\Steve//, Couldn't help but notice, your mentioning in your reference to basic water, that you state that the term "alkaline" is a misnomer for it. Not sure why you even brought up this term, although I did use it in my reply in this same thread a few hours before you posted -- but I don't know whether you caught it there. In any case, as you may recall, we've all discussed this term and the very similar term, "alkalinity," many times in the past -- each term having very different meanings. I know that you've stated this same thing concerning "alkaline" several times before, but I'm proposing that you may just be confusing these two terms again, as has been done before by many. Perhaps I could have used the term, "basic," in my post, which may have been less confusing to the uninitiated here -- as I maintain they both mean the same (and can be used interchangeably). But I guess I must have just assumed that most of the members have seen all the past posts on this issue, defining these terms' usages, and thought they would have been familiar with them by now -- but I guess they could have forgotten by this time. If your full intention however, was to state that "alkaline" is a misnomer for basic, I regret that I feel I must differ from you on this, even as I usually support and recognize your knowledge store in aquarium matters. For what I feel is for the benefit of the reading members, I hold that "alkaline" is associated with pH, while "alkalinity" is associated with Hardness -- just as you've also introduced the term here -- more specifically, Temporary Hardness (KH - buffering capacity - Carbonate Hardness). The two terms appear very similar but have vastly different meanings. Again, I still regret having to dispute the matter, but would find the need to only if this is your position, for what I feel is clarification to the members. Getting back to past discussions on these two terms, I have seen you taking a similar stance in the past, although I still don't know if you had just inadvertantly replaced one term for the other in those replies. To help in directing you to those posts, as a refresher, I noticed your similar content in, I believe, Message # 28944 if I'm not mistaken and also -- I think - Message # 27546. As I mentioned, we've all (Lenny, you, I and others) discussed this before with the members over the years, and I browsed through some 50 message I came across in the archives (there may be more, but I hadn't come across them). I've gleaned some excerpts from them, going back chronologically, and while I tried not to use anything out of context I've attempted to pull what was relevant and leave the extraneous matter behind as some posts were very lengthy. I'm hoping this dialog will dispel any misinterpretations of these terms. Any remarks I'm making following your messages that I've found are written below the messages I'm referring to. Leading with your Message # 28955, on August 4, 2008 -- "Alkalinity is a measurement of the buffering capacity of water or the capacity of bases to neutralize acids. When it is used in conjunction with water it refers to the capacity the water has to resist a change in the pH." I'll go along with this description of "alkalinity," even while you haven't described "alkaline" here. Added to this general subject (not all in the same thread), I note in your Message # 28615, on July 10, 2008, you saying -- "KH measures the alkalinity of water. Don't get this confused with pH, where most people use alkaline to denote water with a high pH." As you hadn't followed up in this with anything to the contrary, or suggested that most people should not use "alkaline" when denoting water with a high pH, it does appear to me that you're condoning this term's usage in this aspect, or I would have expected you not to bring this term up at all -- and may even have expect an additional statement here describing both terms as being similar, if this was your purpose in binging up "alkaline," but I didn't see anything further. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here, but I don't get anything else out of it other than it appears you're going along with most people when they denote water with a high pH as being "alkaline." I'll move to your Message # 28155, on June 2, 2008, where you stated -- "Now here comes the hard part to understand, mainly because of the use and misuse of the term. That term is alkalinity. Alkalinity is not a term to be used when referring to pH. It is misused when you refer to a high pH level as being alkaline. It really is more base. Alkalinity is a measurement of the buffering capacity of the water." \\Steve//, I'll of course certainly go along with your description in the above term of "alkalinity" as not being a term to be used when referring to pH, and is a measurement of the buffering capacity, just as you stated. But you have not given the description for "alkaline" here, which is another term used when talking about water parameters and an entirely different term. I DO NOTE THOUGH -- that you do indeed refer here to a high level of pH as being ALKALINE. On April 29, 2008, Lenny points out -- in his Message # 27542, that -- "Alkaline and acid are the two terms used to indicate pH levels above and below 7.0 (which is neutral). I think even better terms would be acid or base." I can't argue with Lenny here, and fully support everything he states, including that "alkaline" is one of the terms used to indicate a pH level. A better term could be base (actually, "basic" would even be more fitting -- there is a difference), but there's no reason why "alkaline" should not be perfectly acceptable. Our own Aaron (our Group Site Owner) stated on August 23, 2007 in his Message # 23671 -- "So i bought a bunch of test kits and additives and tried to 'Manipulate' the Water parameters to fit what I thought it should be, the more I messed with it the worse it got, now I want to believe 'less is more' and just keep it as simple as possible without being irresponsible, so I figured I would stick to the R/O water because of all the chemicals in the tap including chloramine and the tap is really hard and alkaline (about 8+ pH)." Noticing Aaron uses "alkaline" to denote pH ! If he uses it, it's good 'nough for me (LOL). Clinching my use of "alkaline" for referring to pH though, is your post of January 21, 2007, as your Message # 20479, in which you stated -- "Looking at the most recent water quality reports (2005) available on the web site, and the water in NYC looks to be very good. The water is slighty alkaline, on average, coming into the system, but has low alkalinity, which means that playing with the pH could lead to a pH crash pretty quickly." I note HERE TOO, that you use two terms, one (ALKALINE) obviously in referring to pH, and the other (ALKALINITY) in referring to buffering capacity -- as noted by your warning of not to play with the pH. Topping all of this off, I noted on November 23, 2004 that you stated in your Message # 7029 -- "It is not the softness of the water that makes the pH unstable, it is the buffering capacity of the water that does. Water can be very soft, yet have a high pH, while conversely, water can be very hard and have a low pH. The buffering capacity of the water is called alkalinity (no relation to the alkaline we use to refer to water that is over 7 pH . . . )" I sure go along with everything you said here, as I see by this it's the term "alkaline" that YOU ("we," as in you statement) use to refer to water with a pH over 7.0. As you're including yourself here, I have to go along with the notion that "alkaline" refers to a pH (above neutral), just as you stated it. Who am I to argue about this with you, when you said the same thing as I already did < G >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Bob and Karen, > > Properly acclimated, your angel fish will live in your hard, basic water > (alkaline is really a misnomer, and actually refers to hardness). The fish > may not live as long, and they may not breed, or have very large broods if > they do breed. > > A 55 would be a good sized tank for a pair of full grown angles (6-9" SL, > 9-12" high from tip of dorsal to tip of anal).with, perhaps a pair or trio > of larger livebearers, and a wise choice of a pleco type catfish. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of oplc_faceter > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 2:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tannins, Black Water, pH... > > Greetings fish keepers, > > My wife and I are establishing a 55 gallon freshwater tank that in which > we'd like to try keeping some angelfish. Unfortunately our tap water comes > from an aquifer in central Illinois where the bedrock is limestone/dolomite. > Our water is alkaline with an out of the faucet pH of about 8.2, a general > hardness of about 3 degrees GH (~50 ppm) and a carbonate hardness of about > 13 degrees KH (~230 ppm). > > I've home-brewed a recirculating "black water" peat moss filter to pre-treat > water we'll be using for water changes on the angelfish tank. The water > coming out of this filter tests at a pH of 6 (or lower). The peat moss > treatment doesn't seem to be affecting the general hardness measurably, but > it is lowering the carbonate hardness to about 3 degrees KH. So it appears a > mixture of our tap water and the peat moss treated water should be viable to > provide the angelfish with slightly acidic and softer water. A preliminary > test using 50% tap water and 50% peat filtered water measured a pH of about > 6.8, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH, and a carbonate hardness of > about 7 degrees KH. > > We set up the tank with tap water and I've started doing 5 gallon water > changes using peat moss filtered "black water". The pH and carbonate > hardness are dropping, although not as fast as I expected. The tannins > introduced by the peat moss filter are significantly staining the water. > Unfortunately my wife finds the appearance of "black water" highly > objectionable. She calls it "pee water". > > I've read that activated carbon can be used to remove tannin staining and > clarify "black water". I think I may already be seeing some overnight > clarifying effect from the activated carbon in the cartridges in the two > Aqua-Tech 30-60 power filters we have running on the tank. If activated > carbon does remove the tannin staining, I could build an activated carbon > filter to "unblacken" the "black water" produced by the peat moss filter > before it gets added to the tank. > > However, I'm not entirely clear on the chemistry involved and the > relationship of the tannins causing the water staining to the acidifying > effect of peat moss filtering. If the stain causing tannins are removed from > "black water" by activated carbon or some other method, will the pH and/or > carbonate hardness increase as a result? If so, we may just be spinning our > wheels using activated carbon to remove the stain. > > I'm hoping that some fish keepers with more "black water" experience than > myself can address the relationships between tannins, water staining and > pH/hardness. I'm somewhat out of my element with "black water" as my > previous aquarium experience is centered primarily on African cichlids. > > I'm also wondering how alkaline and hard water can be and still be viable to > sustain angelfish. My wife really has her heart set on angelfish and I want > to accommodate her with a tank she'll enjoy. > > Thanks in advance for any help and advice, > > Bob and Karen > Edinburg, Illinos >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49200	From: Ray	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

Yes Bill, William is quite correct, and while Jaiko has the gist of the matter, there were a few things not told to him. As William states, ALL fish (that I know of) give off growth inhibiting hormones (or pheromones, as they're also referred to -- even though this term is also widely associated with animal sex stimulants, but not restricted to that purpose). All fish includes Tetras, Barbs, Livebearers, Cichlids and ANY other kind of fish -- including Game Fish -- males and females. This is yet one more reason to ensure that adequate PWC's are done, with all fish in all tanks -- and especially those more crowded tanks that one uses for rearing large spawns, whose owner hadn't realized the rate of growth many fish have and the subsequent crowding that can result in short time. Despite what Jaiko was told, these hormones are not released just when the fish stop growing but are being produced constantly from the time they become free--swimming. This secretion never stops being produced. You can now see why it pays to do 50% PWC's rather than 25% PWC when a tank is fully stocked -- if one's water source will allow for it. Large PWC's will immensely help promote growth in more sparsely stocked tanks -- AND will ensure much more even and consistent growth among all the juveniles being reared in a tabk. There are too many reports by breeders always telling of inconsistent growth in their juvies, with a small percentage of larger ones, mostly mediums (still, of varying sizes) and then a small percentage of small ones which never seem to catch up with the rest. While some of this disparity in size may be due to genetics, as same-species organisms may not always grow to the same size, MUCH of this size difference is due directly to insufficient space and the build up of growth inhibiting hormones -- often, even if not always, in addition to nitrogenous waste build ups. All fishes can benefit from larger water changes, even single specimens in a tank, as it's hormone build ups can stunt itself, or at the very least, hold back its growth. This is the difference between a 14" Oscar and an 18" Oscar when it ceases to grow anymore. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > It is not just the grown males that give out hormones that inhibit the growth but most if not all fish will give out growth inhibiting hormones. this is just another reason why water changes are important to crowning fish to their maximum size in aquariums or other bodies of water. You have probably seen goldfish living(?) in small tanks and not getting very large. This is because of these growth inhibiting hormones. It does not matter if it is a hybrid or not they all give off this hormone. > Personally I would not sell or give any of these fish away (because they are hybrids) unless the people know that they are hybrids and do not try to breed them. There are enough full species cichlids (as well as others fishes) that you can find one (or more) to suit your tanks. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > I'm not sure how busy Ray Wetzel from this group is today but I think he may add > > comment to this shortly. Take it easy for now and I would not believe to much until he > > has had a chance to respond here. > >  > > Ray is very knowledgeable about Chiclids, even hybrids or crossed breeding, having > > many years in the hobby. I would trust his judgment and heed his advise he's been doing this a long time. > >  > > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49201	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Circus fish act inhumane: watchdog

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/circus-fish-act-inhumane-watchdog-20100908-150hh.html http://tinyurl.com/34sbpgn Circus fish act inhumane: watchdog Lema Samandar September 8, 2010 - 8:44PM A Russian circus forced to cancel a performance in which a woman swallows a live fish and regurgitates it is angling to revive the act. But without the tiddlers. The Great Moscow Circus, performing in Miranda, in Sydney's south, dropped the act on Monday after the NSW Government informed management it breached the Exhibited Animals Protection Act. Advertisement: Story continues below General manager Greg Hall said the so-called "fountain act" won't appear until further notice, and certainly not with fish. "(Live fish) have only been in the circus for about four or five weeks," he told AAP on Wednesday. "Live fish won't be used in the act (next time)," he added, but wouldn't say what would be used as a substitute for the fish. Mr Hall insisted that such acts were performed in circuses around the world. But Industry and Investment NSW said it had received a complaint. "Circuses operating in NSW must comply with prescribed standards for the welfare of animals," a department spokeswoman said in a statement. Animals Australia executive director Glenys Oogjes said scientific research showed fish were capable of suffering and were, therefore, protected under the Act. "Circuses continue to claim that performing animal acts are educational," Ms Oogjes said. "Far from educational, this was an inhumane and foolish act which reflected badly on the Moscow Circus." The circus, which has been touring Australia for 23 months, will move from Miranda to Rosebay next week. It will finish its tour of Sydney in November. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49202	From: Ray	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH...

\\Steve//, You're quite right, no one is perfect. I'll be the first one to admit I'm not perfect, nor do I pretend to know everything. It doesn't matter how knowledgeable someone is, when one one can know everything even about one subject like our fishes. Anyone who says or implies they know everything on fish is either a liar or a fool (or perhaps both). I will admit those two terms can be confusing, and it's easy to fall into the trap you've made for yourself. Glad to see you recognized the difference between them. "Your a better man that I, Gunga Din." It doesn't look like you've missed anything of Bob and Karen's messages. There was one other message (# 49190) in this same thread, posted by Barb Smithwick -- as she related to our two new members of her methods of maintenance and success with keeping her Angels. She has 4 nice Platinum Angels which I approved 5 photos of for her that went into the photo section. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > No one is perfect <g>. I do fall into the trap myself, hearing and reading > it so often, even from people who should know better, like myself. Even > though it is confusing to use with pH, I fear it may be more confusing to > many not to use the term alkaline with reference to a high pH. I learned a > long time ago in a science class that something with a high pH (more than > 7.0) is a base, and anything with a low pH is an acid. For some reason acid > has stuck in the hobby, but base (or other forms with base as a root) has > not. > > I did see your message later, for some reason when I sorted by subject, your > message was not shown with the original message, and I did see it later last > night. > > I did note, when I snuck a peek at my messages while at work today (it has > been slow this week) that Bob and Karen had left another message, but I > apparently deleted it, since I do not see it among the 200+ in my Inbox > tonight. I'll have to look for it later, since I did want to write a reply > to them. > > Also, if you did not know already, now you know why those Mid-Westerners > like to keep rift lake cichlids. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 5:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tannins, Black Water, pH... > > > > \\Steve//, Couldn't help but notice, your mentioning in your reference to > basic water, that you state that the term "alkaline" is a misnomer for it. > Not sure why you even brought up this term, although I did use it in my > reply in this same thread a few hours before you posted -- but I don't know > whether you caught it there. In any case, as you may recall, we've all > discussed this term and the very similar term, "alkalinity," many times in > the past -- each term having very different meanings. I know that you've > stated this same thing concerning "alkaline" several times before, but I'm > proposing that you may just be confusing these two terms again, as has been > done before by many. > > Perhaps I could have used the term, "basic," in my post, which may have been > less confusing to the uninitiated here -- as I maintain they both mean the > same (and can be used interchangeably). But I guess I must have just > assumed that most of the members have seen all the past posts on this issue, > defining these terms' usages, and thought they would have been familiar with > them by now -- but I guess they could have forgotten by this time. > > If your full intention however, was to state that "alkaline" is a misnomer > for basic, I regret that I feel I must differ from you on this, even as I > usually support and recognize your knowledge store in aquarium matters. For > what I feel is for the benefit of the reading members, I hold that > "alkaline" is associated with pH, while "alkalinity" is associated with > Hardness -- just as you've also introduced the term here -- more > specifically, Temporary Hardness (KH - buffering capacity - Carbonate > Hardness). The two terms appear very similar but have vastly different > meanings. > > Again, I still regret having to dispute the matter, but would find the need > to only if this is your position, for what I feel is clarification to the > members. Getting back to past discussions on these two terms, I have seen > you taking a similar stance in the past, although I still don't know if you > had just inadvertantly replaced one term for the other in those replies. To > help in directing you to those posts, as a refresher, I noticed your similar > content in, I believe, Message # 28944 if I'm not mistaken and also -- I > think - Message # 27546. > > As I mentioned, we've all (Lenny, you, I and others) discussed this before > with the members over the years, and I browsed through some 50 message I > came across in the archives (there may be more, but I hadn't come across > them). I've gleaned some excerpts from them, going back chronologically, > and while I tried not to use anything out of context I've attempted to pull > what was relevant and leave the extraneous matter behind as some posts were > very lengthy. I'm hoping this dialog will dispel any misinterpretations of > these terms. Any remarks I'm making following your messages that I've found > are written below the messages I'm referring to. > > Leading with your Message # 28955, on August 4, 2008 -- "Alkalinity is a > measurement of the buffering capacity of water or the capacity of bases to > neutralize acids. > When it is used in conjunction with water it refers to the capacity the > water has to resist a change in the pH." > > I'll go along with this description of "alkalinity," even while you haven't > described "alkaline" here. > > Added to this general subject (not all in the same thread), I note in your > Message # 28615, on July 10, 2008, you saying -- "KH measures the alkalinity > of water. Don't get this confused with pH, where most people use alkaline > to denote water with a high pH." > > As you hadn't followed up in this with anything to the contrary, or > suggested that most people should not use "alkaline" when denoting water > with a high pH, it does appear to me that you're condoning this term's usage > in this aspect, or I would have expected you not to bring this term up at > all -- and may even have expect an additional statement here describing both > terms as being similar, if this was your purpose in binging up "alkaline," > but I didn't see anything further. I'm not trying to put words in your > mouth here, but I don't get anything else out of it other than it appears > you're going along with most people when they denote water with a high pH > as being "alkaline." > > I'll move to your Message # 28155, on June 2, 2008, where you stated -- "Now > here comes the hard part to understand, mainly because of the use and misuse > of the term. That term is alkalinity. Alkalinity is not a term to be used > when referring to pH. It is misused when you refer to a high pH level as > being alkaline. It really is more base. Alkalinity is a measurement of the > buffering capacity of the water." > > \\Steve//, I'll of course certainly go along with your description in the > above term of "alkalinity" as not being a term to be used when referring to > pH, and is a measurement of the buffering capacity, just as you stated. But > you have not given the description for "alkaline" here, which is another > term used when talking about water parameters and an entirely different > term. I DO NOTE THOUGH -- that you do indeed refer here to a high level of > pH as being ALKALINE. > > On April 29, 2008, Lenny points out -- in his Message # 27542, that -- > "Alkaline and acid are the two terms used to indicate pH levels above and > below 7.0 (which is neutral). I think even better terms would be acid or > base." > > I can't argue with Lenny here, and fully support everything he states, > including that "alkaline" is one of the terms used to indicate a pH level. > A better term could be base (actually, "basic" would even be more fitting -- > there is a difference), but there's no reason why "alkaline" should not be > perfectly acceptable. > > Our own Aaron (our Group Site Owner) stated on August 23, 2007 in his > Message # 23671 -- "So i bought a bunch of test kits and additives and tried > to 'Manipulate' the Water parameters to fit what I thought it should be, the > more I messed with it the worse it got, now I want to believe 'less is more' > and just keep it as simple as possible without being irresponsible, so I > figured I would stick to the R/O water because of all the chemicals in the > tap including chloramine and the tap is really hard and alkaline (about 8+ > pH)." > > Noticing Aaron uses "alkaline" to denote pH ! If he uses it, it's good > 'nough for me (LOL). > > Clinching my use of "alkaline" for referring to pH though, is your post of > January 21, 2007, as your Message # 20479, in which you stated -- "Looking > at the most recent water quality reports (2005) available on the web site, > and the water in NYC looks to be very good. The water is slighty alkaline, > on average, coming into the system, but has low alkalinity, which means that > playing with the pH could lead to a pH crash pretty quickly." > > I note HERE TOO, that you use two terms, one (ALKALINE) obviously in > referring to pH, and the other (ALKALINITY) in referring to buffering > capacity -- as noted by your warning of not to play with the pH. > > Topping all of this off, I noted on November 23, 2004 that you stated in > your Message # 7029 -- "It is not the softness of the water that makes the > pH unstable, it is the buffering capacity of the water that does. Water can > be very soft, yet have a high pH, while conversely, water can be very hard > and have a low pH. The buffering capacity of the water is called alkalinity > (no relation to the alkaline we use to refer to water that is over 7 pH . . > . )" > > I sure go along with everything you said here, as I see by this it's the > term "alkaline" that YOU ("we," as in you statement) use to refer to water > with a pH over 7.0. As you're including yourself here, I have to go along > with the notion that "alkaline" refers to a pH (above neutral), just as you > stated it. Who am I to argue about this with you, when you said the same > thing as I already did < G >. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Bob and Karen, > > > > Properly acclimated, your angel fish will live in your hard, basic water > > (alkaline is really a misnomer, and actually refers to hardness). The fish > > may not live as long, and they may not breed, or have very large broods if > > they do breed. > > > > A 55 would be a good sized tank for a pair of full grown angles (6-9" SL, > > 9-12" high from tip of dorsal to tip of anal).with, perhaps a pair or trio > > of larger livebearers, and a wise choice of a pleco type catfish. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of oplc_faceter > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 2:11 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tannins, Black Water, pH... > > > > Greetings fish keepers, > > > > My wife and I are establishing a 55 gallon freshwater tank that in which > > we'd like to try keeping some angelfish. Unfortunately our tap water comes > > from an aquifer in central Illinois where the bedrock is > limestone/dolomite. > > Our water is alkaline with an out of the faucet pH of about 8.2, a general > > hardness of about 3 degrees GH (~50 ppm) and a carbonate hardness of about > > 13 degrees KH (~230 ppm). > > > > I've home-brewed a recirculating "black water" peat moss filter to > pre-treat > > water we'll be using for water changes on the angelfish tank. The water > > coming out of this filter tests at a pH of 6 (or lower). The peat moss > > treatment doesn't seem to be affecting the general hardness measurably, > but > > it is lowering the carbonate hardness to about 3 degrees KH. So it appears > a > > mixture of our tap water and the peat moss treated water should be viable > to > > provide the angelfish with slightly acidic and softer water. A preliminary > > test using 50% tap water and 50% peat filtered water measured a pH of > about > > 6.8, a general hardness of about 3 degrees GH, and a carbonate hardness of > > about 7 degrees KH. > > > > We set up the tank with tap water and I've started doing 5 gallon water > > changes using peat moss filtered "black water". The pH and carbonate > > hardness are dropping, although not as fast as I expected. The tannins > > introduced by the peat moss filter are significantly staining the water. > > Unfortunately my wife finds the appearance of "black water" highly > > objectionable. She calls it "pee water". > > > > I've read that activated carbon can be used to remove tannin staining and > > clarify "black water". I think I may already be seeing some overnight > > clarifying effect from the activated carbon in the cartridges in the two > > Aqua-Tech 30-60 power filters we have running on the tank. If activated > > carbon does remove the tannin staining, I could build an activated carbon > > filter to "unblacken" the "black water" produced by the peat moss filter > > before it gets added to the tank. > > > > However, I'm not entirely clear on the chemistry involved and the > > relationship of the tannins causing the water staining to the acidifying > > effect of peat moss filtering. If the stain causing tannins are removed > from > > "black water" by activated carbon or some other method, will the pH and/or > > carbonate hardness increase as a result? If so, we may just be spinning > our > > wheels using activated carbon to remove the stain. > > > > I'm hoping that some fish keepers with more "black water" experience than > > myself can address the relationships between tannins, water staining and > > pH/hardness. I'm somewhat out of my element with "black water" as my > > previous aquarium experience is centered primarily on African cichlids. > > > > I'm also wondering how alkaline and hard water can be and still be viable > to > > sustain angelfish. My wife really has her heart set on angelfish and I > want > > to accommodate her with a tank she'll enjoy. > > > > Thanks in advance for any help and advice, > > > > Bob and Karen > > Edinburg, Illinos > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49203	From: jaiko	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

will a 50% wtc stuns the fish?  specially me were my ph in the tap water is about 8.5 --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Firecons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 8:09 PM   Yes Bill, William is quite correct, and while Jaiko has the gist of the matter, there were a few things not told to him. As William states, ALL fish (that I know of) give off growth inhibiting hormones (or pheromones, as they're also referred to -- even though this term is also widely associated with animal sex stimulants, but not restricted to that purpose). All fish includes Tetras, Barbs, Livebearers, Cichlids and ANY other kind of fish -- including Game Fish -- males and females. This is yet one more reason to ensure that adequate PWC's are done, with all fish in all tanks -- and especially those more crowded tanks that one uses for rearing large spawns, whose owner hadn't realized the rate of growth many fish have and the subsequent crowding that can result in short time. Despite what Jaiko was told, these hormones are not released just when the fish stop growing but are being produced constantly from the time they become free--swimming. This secretion never stops being produced. You can now see why it pays to do 50% PWC's rather than 25% PWC when a tank is fully stocked -- if one's water source will allow for it. Large PWC's will immensely help promote growth in more sparsely stocked tanks -- AND will ensure much more even and consistent growth among all the juveniles being reared in a tabk. There are too many reports by breeders always telling of inconsistent growth in their juvies, with a small percentage of larger ones, mostly mediums (still, of varying sizes) and then a small percentage of small ones which never seem to catch up with the rest. While some of this disparity in size may be due to genetics, as same-species organisms may not always grow to the same size, MUCH of this size difference is due directly to insufficient space and the build up of growth inhibiting hormones -- often, even if not always, in addition to nitrogenous waste build ups. All fishes can benefit from larger water changes, even single specimens in a tank, as it's hormone build ups can stunt itself, or at the very least, hold back its growth. This is the difference between a 14" Oscar and an 18" Oscar when it ceases to grow anymore. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > It is not just the grown males that give out hormones that inhibit the growth but most if not all fish will give out growth inhibiting hormones. this is just another reason why water changes are important to crowning fish to their maximum size in aquariums or other bodies of water. You have probably seen goldfish living(?) in small tanks and not getting very large. This is because of these growth inhibiting hormones. It does not matter if it is a hybrid or not they all give off this hormone. > Personally I would not sell or give any of these fish away (because they are hybrids) unless the people know that they are hybrids and do not try to breed them. There are enough full species cichlids (as well as others fishes) that you can find one (or more) to suit your tanks. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > I'm not sure how busy Ray Wetzel from this group is today but I think he may add > > comment to this shortly. Take it easy for now and I would not believe to much until he > > has had a chance to respond here. > >  > > Ray is very knowledgeable about Chiclids, even hybrids or crossed breeding, having > > many years in the hobby. I would trust his judgment and heed his advise he's been doing this a long time. > >  > > Bill > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49204	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/8/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

Changing various amounts of tank water has two basic provisos.   First, the new water you are changing should be of the same pH as the tank its going into and it should if your doing your PWC's properly.   Second, that water should also be the same temperature.  Failing any other problems, you're good to go.   This is why so many of the "authors" here forever and a day try to get folks to understand the use of a good aquarium water test kit.  Run a basic line on your water source and then go and find tropical fish that match you're water parameters.  You don't do the opposite, try and make the water parameters match the fish!  You'll drive yourself crazy and also most probably lose a lot of fish needlessly.   If your saying that you have a SOURCE water with a pH of 8.5, and your using that water to do your PWC's every week, then we must assume that YOUR TANK pH is 8.5.  If it is not, then you must clarify this to us.  If your tank pH is only 7.0 and you do a 50% WC using water that is 8.5, I can pretty well guarantee your fish will not survive it.   Changing 50% of a tanks water, under most condistions should not really be a problem BUT if the pH and water temperature are way out of the range of the tank, there will be a problem.  What Ray is saying in the message below takes this into account. If the water tests' do not match in range you cannot change this much water. That's the whole point, they should match you're source. If theye don't there is a problem. Think of it this way. Changing the water in an aquarium is the very same thing as you taking a few breaths of good fresh clean mountain air.   Bill --- On Wed, 9/8/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: From: jaiko <greychildren@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Firecons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 11:03 PM will a 50% wtc stuns the fish?  specially me were my ph in the tap water is about 8.5 --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Firecons To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 8:09 PM                           Yes Bill,  William is quite correct, and while Jaiko has the gist of the matter, there were a few things not told to him.  As William states, ALL fish (that I know of) give off growth inhibiting hormones                  (or pheromones, as they're also referred to -- even though this term is also widely associated with animal sex stimulants, but not restricted to that purpose).  All fish includes Tetras, Barbs, Livebearers, Cichlids and ANY other kind of fish -- including Game Fish -- males and females. This is yet one more reason to ensure that adequate PWC's are done,  with all fish in all tanks -- and especially those more crowded tanks that one uses for rearing large spawns, whose owner hadn't realized the rate of growth many fish have and the subsequent crowding that can result in short time.  Despite what Jaiko was told, these hormones are not released just when the fish stop growing but are being produced constantly from the time they become free--swimming.  This secretion never stops being produced.  You can now see why it pays to do 50% PWC's rather than 25% PWC when a tank is fully stocked -- if one's water source will allow for it.  Large PWC's will immensely help promote growth in more sparsely stocked tanks -- AND will ensure much more even and consistent growth among all the juveniles being reared in a tabk.  There are too many reports by breeders always telling of inconsistent growth in their juvies, with a small percentage of larger ones, mostly mediums (still, of varying sizes) and then a small percentage of small ones which never seem to catch up with the rest.  While some of this disparity in size may be due to genetics, as same-species organisms may not always grow to the same size, MUCH of this size difference is due directly to insufficient space and the build up of growth inhibiting hormones -- often, even if not always, in addition to nitrogenous waste build ups. All fishes can benefit from larger water changes, even single specimens in a tank, as it's hormone build ups can stunt itself, or at the very least, hold back its growth.  This is the difference between a 14" Oscar and an 18" Oscar when it ceases to grow anymore.   Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > >      It is not just the grown males that give out hormones that inhibit the growth but most if not all fish will give out growth inhibiting hormones. this is just another reason why water changes are important to crowning fish to their maximum size in aquariums or other bodies of water. You have probably seen goldfish living(?) in small tanks and not getting very large. This is because of these growth inhibiting hormones. It does not matter if it is a hybrid or not they all give off this hormone. >      Personally I would not sell or give any of these fish away (because they are hybrids) unless the people know that they are hybrids and do not try to breed them. There are enough full species cichlids (as well as others fishes) that you can find one (or more) to suit your tanks.    > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > I'm not sure how busy Ray Wetzel from this group is today but I think he may add > > comment to this shortly.  Take it easy for now and I would not believe to much until he > > has had a chance to respond here. > >  > > Ray is very knowledgeable about Chiclids, even hybrids or crossed breeding, having > > many years in the hobby.  I would trust his judgment and heed his advise he's been doing this a long time. > >  > > Bill >                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49205	From: Ray	Date: 9/9/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

Jaiko, 50% PWC's will stunt fish when your situation requires that you do 75% PWC's. While 75% PWC's may sustain fish, where it's needed, if you require such large PWC's, you are WAY overcrowded. You may DO PWC's of 50%, 75% or even 90% where your tap water is pristine enough and compatible enough with your tank water to promote good fish health, but such large changes should never be done immediately if your source water's pH, GH and KH do not match these same parameters as your tank water. Assuming that you use your tap water as you only source to maintain your tank regularly, then your GH should always match. It is also assumed (possibly prematurely here) that as long as you are regularly doing adequate PWC's right now, in consideration with your present bioload, that your pH (and therefor, your KH) are remaining very near these same parameters of your tap water -- in which case, unless you have very high heavy metals, ammonia or other contaminents in your tap water that would preclude using larger amounts of it at any one time, you may perform 95% PWC's if you care to -- provided all parameters match at the outset. Large PWC's, such as the 50% that you mention, performed to a tank that is normally/regularly maintained (perhaps now being at 30%) so as to adequately keep your parameters such as to adequately and properly maintain fish at their required parameters, is maintaining those parameters very near those of your tap and has been previously kept at water change rates anywhere below this new 50% proposed PWC rate will never stunt your fish -- they have only to gain from such an exchange rate. If, on the other hand, your tank is crowded with such a bioload that between PWC's, the natural (and expected) effects of your nitrogen cycle act to drop your pH below 0.2 of the level of your tap water (with also, the accompanied reduction of your KH at this same time), you would first need to make increasingly larger PWC's from that which you are now doing to have your tank water parameters match your tap water more closely before you could do 50% PWC's. In checking back through you past posts in this Subject, I don't see you mentioning what you are maintaining your tank water's pH at, nor do I see how large of PWC's you are making now, nor how frequently. The more water you can change out with each PWC, the better any fish will grow. Just as nitrate will always keep being produced and build up unless you remove some, so will Growth Inhibiting Hormones. And even while nitrate levels will rarely ever be at Zero, neither will GIH's. For this purpose alone, while "adequate" (25% to 33%) PWC's will keep both of these levels at a minimum in a properly stocked tank (yet always at some level), regular larger (50% -- or more) PWC's will reduce these GIH's to practically near Zero. The less GIH's in the water, the faster and more uniformly the fish will grow. Think of your fish in a river, possibly contained within a rectangular framework covered with netting to confine them -- as the water is constantly flowing past them, none of the adverse parameters we need be concerned with in the aquarium ever effects these fish as they get a constant 100% water change every second. If we could keep our fish in the home aquarium under similar conditions, there would be no problem with either their health or their growth, or any concern about any of the GIH or organic waste issues. The more water you can change, while matching you tank and tap parameters, the better. This is why it's always recommended to use your tap water whenever you can and to keep your tank's parameters matching your tap water -- besides, being so much easier. BTW, I usually make 90% PWC's each time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > > will a 50% wtc stuns the fish? >  specially me were my ph in the tap water is about 8.5 > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 8:09 PM > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Bill, William is quite correct, and while Jaiko has the gist of the matter, there were a few things not told to him. As William states, ALL fish (that I know of) give off growth inhibiting hormones (or pheromones, as they're also referred to -- even though this term is also widely associated with animal sex stimulants, but not restricted to that purpose). All fish includes Tetras, Barbs, Livebearers, Cichlids and ANY other kind of fish -- including Game Fish -- males and females. > > > > This is yet one more reason to ensure that adequate PWC's are done, with all fish in all tanks -- and especially those more crowded tanks that one uses for rearing large spawns, whose owner hadn't realized the rate of growth many fish have and the subsequent crowding that can result in short time. Despite what Jaiko was told, these hormones are not released just when the fish stop growing but are being produced constantly from the time they become free--swimming. This secretion never stops being produced. You can now see why it pays to do 50% PWC's rather than 25% PWC when a tank is fully stocked -- if one's water source will allow for it. > > > > Large PWC's will immensely help promote growth in more sparsely stocked tanks -- AND will ensure much more even and consistent growth among all the juveniles being reared in a tabk. There are too many reports by breeders always telling of inconsistent growth in their juvies, with a small percentage of larger ones, mostly mediums (still, of varying sizes) and then a small percentage of small ones which never seem to catch up with the rest. While some of this disparity in size may be due to genetics, as same-species organisms may not always grow to the same size, MUCH of this size difference is due directly to insufficient space and the build up of growth inhibiting hormones -- often, even if not always, in addition to nitrogenous waste build ups. > > > > All fishes can benefit from larger water changes, even single specimens in a tank, as it's hormone build ups can stunt itself, or at the very least, hold back its growth. This is the difference between a 14" Oscar and an 18" Oscar when it ceases to grow anymore. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@> wrote: > > > > > > It is not just the grown males that give out hormones that inhibit the growth but most if not all fish will give out growth inhibiting hormones. this is just another reason why water changes are important to crowning fish to their maximum size in aquariums or other bodies of water. You have probably seen goldfish living(?) in small tanks and not getting very large. This is because of these growth inhibiting hormones. It does not matter if it is a hybrid or not they all give off this hormone. > > > Personally I would not sell or give any of these fish away (because they are hybrids) unless the people know that they are hybrids and do not try to breed them. There are enough full species cichlids (as well as others fishes) that you can find one (or more) to suit your tanks. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how busy Ray Wetzel from this group is today but I think he may add > > > > comment to this shortly. Take it easy for now and I would not believe to much until he > > > > has had a chance to respond here. > > > >  > > > > Ray is very knowledgeable about Chiclids, even hybrids or crossed breeding, having > > > > many years in the hobby. I would trust his judgment and heed his advise he's been doing this a long time. > > > >  > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49206	From: William M	Date: 9/9/2010
Subject: Re: Firecons

Another thing to consider is that some water companies will add chemicals to make the water more basic (to prevent corrosion of the water pipes) and when the water is exposed to air, it will turn more acid. You should take tap water and test it right out of the tap and also after a day or two sitting in a clean container. You might be surprised at how much of a difference there is in the pH after sitting and allowing it to aerate. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Changing various amounts of tank water has two basic provisos. >   > First, the new water you are changing should be of the same pH as the tank its going into and it should if your doing your PWC's properly. >   > Second, that water should also be the same temperature.  Failing any other problems, you're good to go. >   > This is why so many of the "authors" here forever and a day try to get folks to understand the use of a good aquarium water test kit.  Run a basic line on your water source and then go and find tropical fish that match you're water parameters.  You don't do the opposite, try and make the water parameters match the fish!  You'll drive yourself crazy and also most probably lose a lot of fish needlessly. >   > If your saying that you have a SOURCE water with a pH of 8.5, and your using that water to do your PWC's every week, then we must assume that YOUR TANK pH is 8.5.  If it is not, then you must clarify this to us.  If your tank pH is only 7.0 and you do a 50% WC using water that is 8.5, I can pretty well guarantee your fish will not survive it. >   > Changing 50% of a tanks water, under most condistions should not really be a problem BUT if the pH and water temperature are way out of the range of the tank, there will be a problem.  What Ray is saying in the message below takes this into account. If the water tests' do not match in range you cannot change this much water. That's the whole point, they should match you're source. If theye don't there is a problem. Think of it this way. Changing the water in an aquarium is the very same thing as you taking a few breaths of good fresh clean mountain air. >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, jaiko <greychildren@...> wrote: > > > From: jaiko <greychildren@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 11:03 PM > > > will a 50% wtc stuns the fish? >  specially me were my ph in the tap water is about 8.5 > > --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Firecons > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 8:09 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > >   > > >     >       >       >       > > > > Yes Bill,  William is quite correct, and while Jaiko has the gist of the matter, there were a few things not told to him.  As William states, ALL fish (that I know of) give off growth inhibiting hormones                  (or pheromones, as they're also referred to -- even though this term is also widely associated with animal sex stimulants, but not restricted to that purpose).  All fish includes Tetras, Barbs, Livebearers, Cichlids and ANY other kind of fish -- including Game Fish -- males and females. > > > > This is yet one more reason to ensure that adequate PWC's are done,  with all fish in all tanks -- and especially those more crowded tanks that one uses for rearing large spawns, whose owner hadn't realized the rate of growth many fish have and the subsequent crowding that can result in short time.  Despite what Jaiko was told, these hormones are not released just when the fish stop growing but are being produced constantly from the time they become free--swimming.  This secretion never stops being produced.  You can now see why it pays to do 50% PWC's rather than 25% PWC when a tank is fully stocked -- if one's water source will allow for it.  > > > > Large PWC's will immensely help promote growth in more sparsely stocked tanks -- AND will ensure much more even and consistent growth among all the juveniles being reared in a tabk.  There are too many reports by breeders always telling of inconsistent growth in their juvies, with a small percentage of larger ones, mostly mediums (still, of varying sizes) and then a small percentage of small ones which never seem to catch up with the rest.  While some of this disparity in size may be due to genetics, as same-species organisms may not always grow to the same size, MUCH of this size difference is due directly to insufficient space and the build up of growth inhibiting hormones -- often, even if not always, in addition to nitrogenous waste build ups. > > > > All fishes can benefit from larger water changes, even single specimens in a tank, as it's hormone build ups can stunt itself, or at the very least, hold back its growth.  This is the difference between a 14" Oscar and an 18" Oscar when it ceases to grow anymore.   Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@> wrote: > > > > > >      It is not just the grown males that give out hormones that inhibit the growth but most if not all fish will give out growth inhibiting hormones. this is just another reason why water changes are important to crowning fish to their maximum size in aquariums or other bodies of water. You have probably seen goldfish living(?) in small tanks and not getting very large. This is because of these growth inhibiting hormones. It does not matter if it is a hybrid or not they all give off this hormone. > > >      Personally I would not sell or give any of these fish away (because they are hybrids) unless the people know that they are hybrids and do not try to breed them. There are enough full species cichlids (as well as others fishes) that you can find one (or more) to suit your tanks.    > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how busy Ray Wetzel from this group is today but I think he may add > > > > comment to this shortly.  Take it easy for now and I would not believe to much until he > > > > has had a chance to respond here. > > > >  > > > > Ray is very knowledgeable about Chiclids, even hybrids or crossed breeding, having > > > > many years in the hobby.  I would trust his judgment and heed his advise he's been doing this a long time. > > > >  > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > >     >       > >     >     > > > > > > >   > > > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49207	From: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/10/2010
Subject: Preview the improved Yahoo! Groups

This is the first Group I have seen with the New format. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/COUSTEAU_Commemorative/ Welcome to the improved Yahoo! Groups! We are upgrading Yahoo! Groups and are bursting with excitement to share our progress with you. It's still us - just better! Never miss a beat with the newly redesigned homepage Simplified tools to keep up with group conversations Share, upload, and view tons of photos in a snap Instantly get in touch with group chat  Check it Out     Learn More  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/overview   About This Group  Join Group  Upon his death on June 25, 1997, Jacques-Yves Cousteau known simply as "the Captain", will always be remembered worldwide for the mystery and beauty of our "water planet" he brought into our lives. I had the distinct honor of meeting him , his entire family and the crew of the "Alcyone" at Chicago's Shedd Aquarium in June of 1984. For millions of people who see the ocean only through the porthole of television, the voice of the sea had a soft French accent. Cousteau's 60-year odyssey with the sea, much of it on his famous boat the "Calypso" and later the "Alcyone" was more than a great adventure. He co-invented the aqualung, developed a one-person, jet-propelled submarine and helped start the first manned undersea human habitat. "When you dive, you begin to feel that you're an angel" the environmentalist and scuba pioneer once said. But the bespectacled, wiry Cousteau, often wearing his trademark red wool cap, became a household name, especially through his hugely popular television series "The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau". Cousteau liked to call himself an "oceanographic technician". He was also a romantic who once said that for him, water was the ultimate symbol of love. "The reason why I love the sea, I cannot explain" a chuckling Cousteau once said. "There is never a bad dive session. There is always something new to learn and see" he said. After a lifetime of invention, exploration and storytelling, Cousteau said not long before he died that he was proudest of helping to save Alaska, the Antarctic, the Amazon basin and of helping awaken the awareness all over the world. "All these things have been hard won and we did it and I'm proud of it." Your reflective moment to remember "the Captain" and his extraordinary legacy, truly gives the "COUSTEAU Memorial" site merit and worth. Gregory R. Mann, Ph.D. {ret.} "robsonbight" Oceanic Marine Biology Lead Adminstrator ( grm.phd@... ) Basics Founded:Jul 31, 2001 Category:Oceanography Members:3034 Language:English Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. Welcome to the improved Yahoo! Groups! We are upgrading Yahoo! Groups and are bursting with excitement to share our progress with you. It's still us - just better! Never miss a beat with the newly redesigned homepage Simplified tools to keep up with group conversations Share, upload, and view tons of photos in a snap Instantly get in touch with group chat  Check it Out     Learn More

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49208	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/11/2010
Subject: NZ: Quake: Hero saved his fish after 'tidal waves' in tanks

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/canterbury-earthquake/4120170/Quake-Hero-saved-his-fish-after-tidal-waves-in-tanks http://tinyurl.com/2av6n8u Quake: Hero saved his fish after 'tidal waves' in tanks By IAN STEWARD - Sunday Star Times Last updated 05:00 12/09/2010 Twenty minutes after his chimney came crashing through his ceiling, Dave Bradshaw wasn't picking up bricks - he was throwing rare fish back into an aquarium. The operations manager at Southern Encounter Aquarium and Kiwi House, Bradford's first thought after the big shake was the safety of his Cathedral Square tourist attraction. He arrived 20 minutes later, in the pitch darkness, and found "tidal waves" in the 85,000-litre and 21,000-litre tanks. About a third of the water, and many of the fish, had spilled on to the floor. Bradford worked feverishly picking up the dying fish - some up to 30cm long - and throwing them back into the tanks. All except five survived but about 15,000 litres of water had to be mopped up. Orana Wildlife Trust chief executive Lynne Anderson, who oversees the aquarium, said "if it wasn't for the heroic actions of Dave Bradshaw we wouldn't have had much to reopen with." Among those saved was an exotic porcupine fish, a crowd-pleasing favourite that looks like a Japanese cartoon of a puffer fish. Bradshaw said he arrived so quickly because there was a fear that the quake could have broken a water pipe. If it had, all the water from the tanks could have dropped into the basement. Fortunately the pipes were sound and Bradshaw was in time to rescue the stranded fish. But why was his first thought not his stricken house? "It's my job," he said. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49209	From: rachaelsimone30	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: hello everyone.. Please read..

Hello everyone. I joined this group because Im in desperate need of some advice. I have a 55 gallon fish aquarium with serveral fish. We have had the same fish for over 2 years and never had a problem until recently. It started with the big goldfish. he started getting these big white bumps (looked like pimples) it is on the fins and body. Then my tiger barbs have it also and it looks kind of like ick on them, but their color is really dull now. it favors a fungus and I have treated it as a fungus serveral times and it gpes away but comes back about 2 weeks after treated, Now every fish is diseased and i dont know what to do. I will post pics asap. The tank has been treated for ick, and fungus. I dont know whats going on but we have lost 4 fish already. Some of the fish look like ick, others look like fungus and funk. Please help me. I have had these fish for years.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49210	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

>Hello everyone. I joined this group because Im >in desperate need of some advice. I have a 55 >gallon fish aquarium with serveral fish. We have >had the same fish for over 2 years and never had >a problem until recently. It started with the >big goldfish. he started getting these big white >bumps (looked like pimples) it is on the fins >and body. Then my tiger barbs have it also and >it looks kind of like ick on them, but their >color is really dull now. it favors a fungus and >I have treated it as a fungus serveral times and >it gpes away but comes back about 2 weeks after >treated, Now every fish is diseased and i dont >know what to do. I will post pics asap. The tank >has been treated for ick, and fungus. I dont >know whats going on but we have lost 4 fish >already. Some of the fish look like ick, others >look like fungus and funk. Please help me. I >have had these fish for years. How much water do you change and how often? Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49211	From: Ricardo Estrada	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

If it's Ick, raising the temp gradually to 83 degrees (F) will get rid of it, Ick vanishes at anything over 82 degrees.                      Ricardo --- On Wed, 9/15/10, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: From: Charles Harrison <charles@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hello everyone.. Please read.. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 3:17 PM   >Hello everyone. I joined this group because Im >in desperate need of some advice. I have a 55 >gallon fish aquarium with serveral fish. We have >had the same fish for over 2 years and never had >a problem until recently. It started with the >big goldfish. he started getting these big white >bumps (looked like pimples) it is on the fins >and body. Then my tiger barbs have it also and >it looks kind of like ick on them, but their >color is really dull now. it favors a fungus and >I have treated it as a fungus serveral times and >it gpes away but comes back about 2 weeks after >treated, Now every fish is diseased and i dont >know what to do. I will post pics asap. The tank >has been treated for ick, and fungus. I dont >know whats going on but we have lost 4 fish >already. Some of the fish look like ick, others >look like fungus and funk. Please help me. I >have had these fish for years. How much water do you change and how often? Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49212	From: rachaelsimone30	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Hello, I change the water approx every 10 days or so, and do a partial water change of 25%. When I do that I also clean the gravel, andd the water conditioner to the water before I add it back to the tank. On the goldfish it looks kind of like white raised areas (bumps) no uniformed pattern, kind of wart like but not round. they have no certain shape. On the other fish there color is dull and looks like some of the skin maybe shedding a little, and 2 of my tetras have spots whick looks like ick on the fins, but the bodies look kind of iredesent and kind of cottony. i have treated it for ick and fungus. The fungus meds get rid of it for about a week but comes right back. Treeated it 4 times for fungus and 3 times for ick. Temp is raised to 83 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > >Hello everyone. I joined this group because Im > >in desperate need of some advice. I have a 55 > >gallon fish aquarium with serveral fish. We have > >had the same fish for over 2 years and never had > >a problem until recently. It started with the > >big goldfish. he started getting these big white > >bumps (looked like pimples) it is on the fins > >and body. Then my tiger barbs have it also and > >it looks kind of like ick on them, but their > >color is really dull now. it favors a fungus and > >I have treated it as a fungus serveral times and > >it gpes away but comes back about 2 weeks after > >treated, Now every fish is diseased and i dont > >know what to do. I will post pics asap. The tank > >has been treated for ick, and fungus. I dont > >know whats going on but we have lost 4 fish > >already. Some of the fish look like ick, others > >look like fungus and funk. Please help me. I > >have had these fish for years. > > > How much water do you change and how often? > > Charles H > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49213	From: William M	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Just because the dots disapear, does not mean that the ick has gone away too. You need to treat for several days or even weeks to get rid of ick. When the white spots drop off of the fish they will settle in the gravel and multiply to hundreds or thousands of small swimming parasites that will look for host fish to grab hold of. It is during this free swimming stage that they can be killed with meds. One thing that you can do to make the process faster is to increase the temp of the tank up to 86 slowly. Also make sure to circulate the water to give more oxygen to the remaining fish. The ick cannot survive these temps plus the meds. Just like when you are sick, the doctors tells you to take the ten day supply even if you are feeling better. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachaelsimone30" <rachaelsimone30@...> wrote: > > > Hello, I change the water approx every 10 days or so, and do a partial water change of 25%. When I do that I also clean the gravel, andd the water conditioner to the water before I add it back to the tank. On the goldfish it looks kind of like white raised areas (bumps) no uniformed pattern, kind of wart like but not round. they have no certain shape. On the other fish there color is dull and looks like some of the skin maybe shedding a little, and 2 of my tetras have spots whick looks like ick on the fins, but the bodies look kind of iredesent and kind of cottony. i have treated it for ick and fungus. The fungus meds get rid of it for about a week but comes right back. Treeated it 4 times for fungus and 3 times for ick. Temp is raised to 83 > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > > > > >Hello everyone. I joined this group because Im > > >in desperate need of some advice. I have a 55 > > >gallon fish aquarium with serveral fish. We have > > >had the same fish for over 2 years and never had > > >a problem until recently. It started with the > > >big goldfish. he started getting these big white > > >bumps (looked like pimples) it is on the fins > > >and body. Then my tiger barbs have it also and > > >it looks kind of like ick on them, but their > > >color is really dull now. it favors a fungus and > > >I have treated it as a fungus serveral times and > > >it gpes away but comes back about 2 weeks after > > >treated, Now every fish is diseased and i dont > > >know what to do. I will post pics asap. The tank > > >has been treated for ick, and fungus. I dont > > >know whats going on but we have lost 4 fish > > >already. Some of the fish look like ick, others > > >look like fungus and funk. Please help me. I > > >have had these fish for years. > > > > > > How much water do you change and how often? > > > > Charles H > > > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > -- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49214	From: Rachael M	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

thank you so much for the feedback. The goldfish does not look like ick, it looks more like warts that are not round and do not have a definate shape. Almost like pimples that line his back, on his fins, it looks like thick pimples that are hard. It is very strange. But the other fish looks like ick and their skin is sloughing off, some of them look dull in color and really irredecent.  Since this has been going on i have lost about 5 fish in the last 2 months. The fungus meds get rid of it but comes right back. I cant not get a good pic or i would post one. ________________________________ From: William M <dreammaker2623@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 5:32:47 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hello everyone.. Please read..   Just because the dots disapear, does not mean that the ick has gone away too. You need to treat for several days or even weeks to get rid of ick. When the white spots drop off of the fish they will settle in the gravel and multiply to hundreds or thousands of small swimming parasites that will look for host fish to grab hold of. It is during this free swimming stage that they can be killed with meds. One thing that you can do to make the process faster is to increase the temp of the tank up to 86 slowly. Also make sure to circulate the water to give more oxygen to the remaining fish. The ick cannot survive these temps plus the meds. Just like when you are sick, the doctors tells you to take the ten day supply even if you are feeling better. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachaelsimone30" <rachaelsimone30@...> wrote: > > > Hello, I change the water approx every 10 days or so, and do a partial water >change of 25%. When I do that I also clean the gravel, andd the water >conditioner to the water before I add it back to the tank. On the goldfish it >looks kind of like white raised areas (bumps) no uniformed pattern, kind of wart >like but not round. they have no certain shape. On the other fish there color is >dull and looks like some of the skin maybe shedding a little, and 2 of my tetras >have spots whick looks like ick on the fins, but the bodies look kind of >iredesent and kind of cottony. i have treated it for ick and fungus. The fungus >meds get rid of it for about a week but comes right back. Treeated it 4 times >for fungus and 3 times for ick. Temp is raised to 83 > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > > > > >Hello everyone. I joined this group because Im > > >in desperate need of some advice. I have a 55 > > >gallon fish aquarium with serveral fish. We have > > >had the same fish for over 2 years and never had > > >a problem until recently. It started with the > > >big goldfish. he started getting these big white > > >bumps (looked like pimples) it is on the fins > > >and body. Then my tiger barbs have it also and > > >it looks kind of like ick on them, but their > > >color is really dull now. it favors a fungus and > > >I have treated it as a fungus serveral times and > > >it gpes away but comes back about 2 weeks after > > >treated, Now every fish is diseased and i dont > > >know what to do. I will post pics asap. The tank > > >has been treated for ick, and fungus. I dont > > >know whats going on but we have lost 4 fish > > >already. Some of the fish look like ick, others > > >look like fungus and funk. Please help me. I > > >have had these fish for years. > > > > > > How much water do you change and how often? > > > > Charles H > > > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > -- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49215	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

It doesn't sound like he is just fighting Ick. There are lumps/bumps not just white spots. It sounds like he has treated for Ick enough to kill it off. I'm for a deeper water change and get the water to a pH above 7. No water conditions were given but I'll bet the color is yellow. Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49216	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

I googled pimples on fish and there were results, not going to repeat them as I cannot validate the information but look around a bit. You might also try www Koivet.com for answers as they discuss treating goldfish as well as Koi. -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: Charles Harrison <charles@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Sep 15, 2010 4:36 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hello everyone.. Please read.. It doesn't sound like he is just fighting Ick. There are lumps/bumps not just white spots. It sounds like he has treated for Ick enough to kill it off. I'm for a deeper water change and get the water to a pH above 7. No water conditions were given but I'll bet the color is yellow. Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49217	From: Ray	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Rachel, From what I've been reading, it appears that some members are forgetting you have a goldfish when they recommend raising the temperature. I doubt if a goldfish would take kindly to 83 o, and especially not at 86 o. By your description, I too doubt that these raised areas on the goldfish is Ich, even though it still may be harboring some. While goldfish and tropical fish should not be mixed, for the reason that their requirements are different, we can't concern ourselves with this error in judgment right now since they're already mixed in the same tank. To properly treat both the goldfish and the tropical fish, if there is any way you could isolate the goldfish to its own hospital tank, I'd highly recommend it. I cannot say exactly what its malady is though, but a bacterial problem would seem to be one very distinct possibility. As for the tropical fish, raising the temperature is the best thing you can do for them, although increased aeration should be employed at this same time. Ich will not seccumb to 83 o; if anything, this temperature would make it more virulent as it increases its metabolism and its life-cycle. The fact that you have medication in the tank (if you are still using a medication) may help weaken it, but as you haven't stated exactly how you're treating for this Ich, it's difficult to say just how effective your medication is. Actually, for treating Ich, you do not need medication as raising the temperature to 86 o will render the Ich unable to reproduce above this temperature, and its life-cycle will end. To this, 1 Tablespoon of Kosher salt per 5 gallons should also be used. As for some of your fish dying off during the last few weeks while you were medicating for Ich, some of these loses could be directly attributed to the medication -- depending upon the fish and what you used for them. There are some species that just cannot tolerate certain Ich medications, the ones most commonly sold to treat this disease. Among them, to name a few, are Cory Catfish, Tetras and Loaches. Since your fish also seem to have a bacterial skin infection, I'd suggest using a good broad-spectrum antibiotic such as Furan II, which BTW, also is quite effective against Fungus. This would be a good choice to treat the goldfish with also, in a separate tank, in efforts to treat against an external bacterial infection. If you have any other medications in the tank, they should be removed with carbon in you filter. As for treating Ich -- whether with medications or with heat -- the treatment should continue until at least 48 hours after seeing the last signs of Ich on your fish, as there will be latent Ich spores in your gravel waiting to break out and reinfect your fish if the treatment is discontinued prematurely. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Rachael M <rachaelsimone30@...> wrote: > > thank you so much for the feedback. The goldfish does not look like ick, it > looks more like warts that are not round and do not have a definate shape. > Almost like pimples that line his back, on his fins, it looks like thick pimples > that are hard. It is very strange. But the other fish looks like ick and their > skin is sloughing off, some of them look dull in color and really irredecent. > >  Since this has been going on i have lost about 5 fish in the last 2 months. The > fungus meds get rid of it but comes right back. I cant not get a good pic or i > would post one. > > > > ________________________________ > From: William M <dreammaker2623@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 5:32:47 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hello everyone.. Please read.. > >  > Just because the dots disapear, does not mean that the ick has gone away too. > You need to treat for several days or even weeks to get rid of ick. When the > white spots drop off of the fish they will settle in the gravel and multiply to > hundreds or thousands of small swimming parasites that will look for host fish > to grab hold of. It is during this free swimming stage that they can be killed > with meds. One thing that you can do to make the process faster is to increase > the temp of the tank up to 86 slowly. Also make sure to circulate the water to > give more oxygen to the remaining fish. The ick cannot survive these temps plus > the meds. Just like when you are sick, the doctors tells you to take the ten day > supply even if you are feeling better. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachaelsimone30" <rachaelsimone30@> > wrote: > > > > > > Hello, I change the water approx every 10 days or so, and do a partial water > >change of 25%. When I do that I also clean the gravel, andd the water > >conditioner to the water before I add it back to the tank. On the goldfish it > >looks kind of like white raised areas (bumps) no uniformed pattern, kind of wart > >like but not round. they have no certain shape. On the other fish there color is > >dull and looks like some of the skin maybe shedding a little, and 2 of my tetras > >have spots whick looks like ick on the fins, but the bodies look kind of > >iredesent and kind of cottony. i have treated it for ick and fungus. The fungus > >meds get rid of it for about a week but comes right back. Treeated it 4 times > >for fungus and 3 times for ick. Temp is raised to 83 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > >Hello everyone. I joined this group because Im > > > >in desperate need of some advice. I have a 55 > > > >gallon fish aquarium with serveral fish. We have > > > >had the same fish for over 2 years and never had > > > >a problem until recently. It started with the > > > >big goldfish. he started getting these big white > > > >bumps (looked like pimples) it is on the fins > > > >and body. Then my tiger barbs have it also and > > > >it looks kind of like ick on them, but their > > > >color is really dull now. it favors a fungus and > > > >I have treated it as a fungus serveral times and > > > >it gpes away but comes back about 2 weeks after > > > >treated, Now every fish is diseased and i dont > > > >know what to do. I will post pics asap. The tank > > > >has been treated for ick, and fungus. I dont > > > >know whats going on but we have lost 4 fish > > > >already. Some of the fish look like ick, others > > > >look like fungus and funk. Please help me. I > > > >have had these fish for years. > > > > > > > > > How much water do you change and how often? > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > -- > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49218	From: Ray	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Charles, A reminder, of the recommendation to do a PWC (partial water change) before treating for any disease, for those not that familiar with medicating fishes, is sound advice but not in the proportions you're suggesting. If, by chance, the test results of this water for pH were yellow, it would indicate a pH of 6.0. To change the water from pH 6.0 to pH 7.0 "or above," would induce pH shock in these fish, causing them a good deal of stress -- possibly enough stress in their present weakened state to put them over the edge, killing them. While we don't even know what the pH is, acidic water is no more conducive to the promotion of Ich than is basic water. I fail to see your reasoning for wanting to suddenly have these fish in basic water when Ich will strike and continue its manifestation in any pH. I believe it's agreed, that these lumps are not Ich, although the exact nature of this infection remains to be seen. One possible cause, as I've already mentioned, is an external bacteria infection, and I might remind you that in general, most bacteria do not fair as well in acid water, as they do in basic water. Therefore, it would be preferable to keep the fish at a pH below 7.0, if only for this reason. A smaller PWC, of perhaps 25% -- to no more than 33% at this time -- would be favorable (provided the water is already in this range), as opposed to it being over 7.0. Any small PWC's such as what was just mentioned, would help eliminate a portion of the nitrate build up, which ideally should be kept below 40 ppm for a more stress-free environnment. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > It doesn't sound like he is just fighting Ick. > There are lumps/bumps not just white spots. > It sounds like he has treated for Ick enough to kill it off. > I'm for a deeper water change and get the water to a pH above 7. > No water conditions were given but I'll bet the color is yellow. > > Charles H > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49219	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Where to start? First, you do not give us any water parameters. We really need to know those to even really start to help you diagnose the problem. These would include: Temperature; ammonia; nitrite; nitrate; and pH. We also need to know all the fish in your tank, and their sizes. This is important, because, without the sizes, I'll tell you right off that your tank is overcrowded. The two goldfish really need all 55 gallons of your tank. If they are really small, you may be able to get away with more fish, but that would not be for long. With the fish load, especially with goldfish in the mix, you probably should be doing two water changes a week, not one about every 10 days. I'd be willing to bet that you have an elevated ammonia level, some nitrites, and a high level of nitrate. This is why we really need to know your test results. One must also question your choice of fish. Goldfish should not be kept with fish from the tropics. Goldfish are a temperate water fish and really do much better at room temperature or below 72°F. You mentioned tiger barbs as a fish in the tank with your goldfish. They do better at temperatures in the mid 70's. You allude to other fish, but we do not know what they are. For now, test your water. Use a good kit with fresh liquid or powdered reagents. API makes a decent master kit at a relatively inexpensive price. After the water tests, do a 50% water change using a water conditioner suitable for your water, if it has chlorine or chloramines added. Send us the results of the tests and a list of the fish in your tank along with a description of their conditions (include the ones that have died). Lower the water temperature to the low to mid 70's. Take several days to do this if you need to drop the temperature more than a couple of degrees. The fish are probably stressed enough already to risk making a rapid change in temperature. Nothing is coming to my mind about what the problem is with your fish right now, with the wart like growths you describe. Ray may have a better idea. I believe he is more familiar with goldfish, and I am sure he will chime in when he gets here. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rachaelsimone30 Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hello everyone.. Please read.. Hello everyone. I joined this group because Im in desperate need of some advice. I have a 55 gallon fish aquarium with serveral fish. We have had the same fish for over 2 years and never had a problem until recently. It started with the big goldfish. he started getting these big white bumps (looked like pimples) it is on the fins and body. Then my tiger barbs have it also and it looks kind of like ick on them, but their color is really dull now. it favors a fungus and I have treated it as a fungus serveral times and it gpes away but comes back about 2 weeks after treated, Now every fish is diseased and i dont know what to do. I will post pics asap. The tank has been treated for ick, and fungus. I dont know whats going on but we have lost 4 fish already. Some of the fish look like ick, others look like fungus and funk. Please help me. I have had these fish for years.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49220	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

>Charles, A reminder, of the recommendation to >do a PWC (partial water change) before treating >for any disease, for those not that familiar >with medicating fishes, is sound advice but not >in the proportions you're suggesting. If, by >chance, the test results of this water for pH >were yellow, it would indicate a pH of 6.0. To >change the water from pH 6.0 to pH 7.0 "or >above," would induce pH shock in these fish, >causing them a good deal of stress -- possibly >enough stress in their present weakened state to >put them over the edge, killing them. > >While we don't even know what the pH is, acidic >water is no more conducive to the promotion of >Ich than is basic water. I fail to see your >reasoning for wanting to suddenly have these >fish in basic water when Ich will strike and >continue its manifestation in any pH. I believe >it's agreed, that these lumps are not Ich, >although the exact nature of this infection >remains to be seen. One possible cause, as I've >already mentioned, is an external bacteria >infection, and I might remind you that in >general, most bacteria do not fair as well in >acid water, as they do in basic water. >Therefore, it would be preferable to keep the >fish at a pH below 7.0, if only for this reason. >A smaller PWC, of perhaps 25% -- to no more than >33% at this time -- would be favorable (provided >the water is already in this range), as opposed >to it being over 7.0. Any small PWC's such as >what was just mentioned, would help eliminate a >portion of the nitrate build up, which ideally >should be kept below 40 ppm for a more >stress-free environnment. Ray It is my interest to reduce the likely hood there is Nitrite levels above liveable levels for the majority of the inhabitants of the glass cage. I can't diagnose the real problem/disease or parasite without a lot more information. Fresh water can't hurt anything any more than a good heavy rain will do in the wild. It is not Nitrates that bother the fish, it's NitrIES and low pH or Ammonia or Ammonium at high pHs. A good water change may take away a lot of built up compounds unknown as well as removing anything problematic unknown. So, we need pictures and water chemistry report from the aquarists. -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49221	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/15/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

>Where to start? First, you do not give us any water parameters. We really >need to know those to even really start to help you diagnose the problem. >These would include: Temperature; ammonia; nitrite; nitrate; and pH. We also >need to know all the fish in your tank, and their sizes. This is important, >because, without the sizes, I'll tell you right off that your tank is >overcrowded. The two goldfish really need all 55 gallons of your tank. If >they are really small, you may be able to get away with more fish, but that would not be for long. I agree with Steve, Goldfish don't belong with the forest fishes. & We need more data. I wish I had been a part of this forum some time ago, this sounds like real challenging fun! Let's save some Aquarists!! and their Fishes!!! Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Levamisole HCl lives here. Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49222	From: Ray	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Charles, I understand your purpose of reducing all of the possible contaminant levels, which PWC's will of course do, and while we don't know yet what the ammonia and nitrite levels are (they may be at zero, where they should be), even despite the somewhat less frequent PWCing regimen here that we would encourage, here will always be a build up of nitrate as the natural result of nitrification. Please do not say that nitrates will not bother fish -- AS THEY MOST CERTAINLY WILL, when they reach excessive levels. We strive to keep the nitrate level below 40 ppm -- the closer to zero, the better -(even though that can seldom be achieved as this product is continually being produced with little else to remove it save for any aquatic plants which may otherwise be using some). As for Rachel's ammonia and nitrite levels, while they may be in line with what we'd hope for, we cannot assume that they are. Here, we really need the results of these tests, in numbers, to enable us to proceed much further, but in attempting to address these issues at this time I believe it to be prudent to at least act in the proper direction, as I've outlined previously. To advance any further, and which may well be crucial to the ultimate diagnosis and treatment, we need the test results of all the water parameters, just as \\Steve// pointed out. Not knowing even the pH of this water at this time, we can only recommend performing a more moderate, yet still beneficial PWC. For that matter, we don't even know the parameters of Rachel's tap water, more specifically its pH and KH -- which would dictate how large of a difference any PWC would impose on her aquarium water's present pH. It's for that reason, I would even hesitate making 50% PWC's without yet knowing her tank water's parameters and how much her tap water's parameters would change her present parameters -- although it's safe to say that at least a 1/3rd change of water would certainly be safe (and needed before medicinal treatment to ensure or at least improve the quality of the water). If the parameters indicate that more water can safely be changed, I too would recommend a lsrger PWC (and more frequent PWC's from here on). Then too, with having the results of the parameter levels, they may show that larger PWC's are not necessary. To change out sufficient water as to make this tank's water alkaline (basic), when it might now be acidic -- and without even knowing all of the parameters yet -- is rather foolhardy to say the least, even if the fish may be able to withstand the shock (which I see as doubtful). Just as you've already alluded to, Ammonia at a high pH will "bother" the fish (as you put it), and may be downright lethal to them, if not already, toxic. I'm sorry to have to say that such a drastic move in pH, especially without knowing any other of the parameters, could only be viewed as not being entirely responsible fish keeping -- and view just the same even if all other parameters, besides a potentially large shift in pH, were at the their acceptable levels. Please know, with exception only of those fish requiring high pH levels (such as Rift Lake Cichlids, as an example), that low pH -- within reason (and I'm not referring to a pH of 4.5!) -- will not "bother" most tropical fishes. Most fishes will adjust to small pH changes towards either range, especially when the change is done more slowly -- as would be seen as part of nitrification, only if insufficient PWC's were performed. There are still a number of certain species though, that would thrive much better in alkaline (basic) water, more specifically most of the Livebearers for instance, although they can easily tolerate a pH of 6.8 or so when the water is otherwise pristine and free of organic waste products. As for your remark concerning, "Change as much water as often as you can," I go along with you 100% on this, but before being able to change larger quantities, your tank water's parameters must be brought in line with the parameters of your tap water to enable you to change out any copious amounts without inducing stress. Yes, a good water change will remove a good portion of any built up compounds, known or unknown, as well as a good portion of anything problematic and causing stress to the fish -- but, before doing so, any water changes must be done in amounts that we can be assured will not cause any further stress on the fish, keeping their water parameters within the range that will not promote pH shock or osmotic pressure issues. When these parameters are unknown, as they are here, we can't afford to err outside of being cautious. Ray -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > It is my interest to reduce the likely hood there > is Nitrite levels above livable levels for the > majority of the inhabitants of the glass cage. I > can't diagnose the real problem/disease or > parasite without a lot more information. Fresh > water can't hurt anything any more than a good > heavy rain will do in the wild. It is not > Nitrates that bother the fish, it's NitrITES and > low pH or Ammonia or Ammonium at high pHs. > > A good water change may take away a lot of built > up compounds unknown as well as removing anything > problematic unknown. > > So, we need pictures and water chemistry report from the aquarists. > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49223	From: suemfrancis	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Goldfish care in winter

Hi I have 4000+ litre pond which I constructed a few months ago - with a depth of 1 metre. The water testing shows it has probably cycled and I am running a filter (which cant be used once the tempertature drops below 0). I have 5no. 2" goldfish and 2no. 2" shubumkins. A few marginal plants which are just beginning to establish. My question is: Should I feed at all in the winter once the temperature drops below 0 - if so how often? Bearing in mind the fact that the pond isnt properly established yet. And what do others recommend for stopping the ponding completely icing over? Thank you for help Sue Francis Surrey, England

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49224	From: William M	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish care in winter

Some experts say to stop feeding once the water temp drops to below 50 degrees F. Others put the cup off temp at 40 degrees F. That being said, I would not feed once the water temp ;drops below 45 and stays that low (or lower) for more than 3 or 4 days. Another thing consider is the type of food that you feed during the cooler temp, it should be more in the line of something that contains wheat germ that is more digestible during the cooler temps. If you do feed when the temps are really cool (below 40 ) then the food will not be digested and bacteria may kill the fish from the inside. As far as keeping the ice from completely freezing over, there are are floating heaters that will keep an area open around the heater. You might also consider a submersible pump to keep the water moving at the bottom of the pond to mix with the open water around the heater. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "suemfrancis" <peterelectrician@...> wrote: > > Hi > > I have 4000+ litre pond which I constructed a few months ago - with a depth of 1 metre. The water testing shows it has probably cycled and I am running a filter (which cant be used once the tempertature drops below 0). I have 5no. 2" goldfish and 2no. 2" shubumkins. A few marginal plants which are just beginning to establish. > > My question is: > Should I feed at all in the winter once the temperature drops below 0 - if so how often? Bearing in mind the fact that the pond isnt properly established yet. And what do others recommend for stopping the ponding completely icing over? > > Thank you for help > > Sue Francis > Surrey, England >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49225	From: barbokla	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Goldfish are aceptable to bumps, mostly caused by bad water conditions, YOUR FILTER being a host here.. They are parasites not fungus. The problem is they bury into the fishes skin and are hard to treat. U can do some DESAFIN and treat the tank. This is a parasite/bacterial GOLDIFSH only medication. So U need to remove the others to another tank.. This is a concentrated pond medication.. With the fish U have right now, U can do Aquarium Prazil PRO and not remove the others.. Clout is another good INTERNAL/external paraisite medication but is really strong.. I caution using that but it works.. U are treating for ICH but is it ICH??? Looks like someone sprinkled salt on them. Starts in the fins and spreads to the body in days.. Can cause death in a week or less. Using Aquarium SALT at normal dose here keeps them off your fish AND keeping your temp at a steady tempeture.. Goldfish like COLDER water under 74F,, so really, U need to not have them in with the others. This could cause the probs U are having now. My 5 goldfish are now in a 55gal as I moved them 90 miles away from a 100 gal pond to NEW water, higher in GH/KH and they are doing fine.. I am treating them and my fancy split long tail for red streaks in her fins with Melafix.. After 5 days the streaks are almost gone.. BUT this is not what your goldfish has, so please get the RIGHT meds and U wil see inprovment.. U need a internal parasite medication. U are best to treat her in a seperate tank with STRONG meds. KEEP The temp DOWN to normal house temps if U can keep her/him alone while treating.. I had a female shubunkin at 6yr old with that prob, bumps came up and I didnt' get to her in time, she is now gone.. It happens.. Hope this helps U.. Barb --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachaelsimone30" <rachaelsimone30@...> wrote: > > Hello everyone. I joined this group because Im in desperate need of some advice. I have a 55 gallon fish aquarium with serveral fish. We have had the same fish for over 2 years and never had a problem until recently. It started with the big goldfish. he started getting these big white bumps (looked like pimples) it is on the fins and body. Then my tiger barbs have it also and it looks kind of like ick on them, but their color is really dull now. it favors a fungus and I have treated it as a fungus serveral times and it gpes away but comes back about 2 weeks after treated, Now every fish is diseased and i dont know what to do. I will post pics asap. The tank has been treated for ick, and fungus. I dont know whats going on but we have lost 4 fish already. Some of the fish look like ick, others look like fungus and funk. Please help me. I have had these fish for years. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49226	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Thus far I have to also agree with what Steve posted, but I would like to add one thing that hasn't been focused on yet. The "lumps" on the goldfish appear to be tumors, which is not uncommon in fancy goldfish that are in less than ideal water quality. High nitrates for an extended period of time contribute to this, as does malnutrition, inappropriate temp for a long time, and sometimes bacteria. As Steve explained, we need to know those test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, and temp. Those are extremely important. To elaborate on what some of the others were saying, not all meds are safe for all species of fish, and unfortunately you will not find warnings for this on the medication packaging. I think Ray has good advice about the likeliness of a bacterial infection having taken hold with your tropical fish, as this fits the description of your problem... however, many medications can have an adverse effect on the fish if the water quality is not in good standing. Any ammonia or nitrite, and high nitrate (over 40) can cause these adverse reactions, and it can also cause medications to be ineffective. It would really help for us to know what the active ingredients are in the medications you have attempted to use, along with the fish species descriptions & populations descriptions that Steve has asked for. To act on this situation without that information is potentially lethal to the remaining fish. There are also many medications that cannot be mixed, so knowing how you have gone about treating these sick fish thus far would also be a huge help. Can you include tank sizes when you list population, so we know how many of what kind of fish are in each sized tank. And... lastly, I have to echo the advice about not keeping goldfish with tropical fish. The environment they need is completely different than that of the tropicals, not to mention how large the goldfish get and how dirty they are. Goldfish produce very heavy amounts of waste and should be cleaned more often than most other fish species. 25% every 10 days or so is not appropriate for 2 fancy goldfish in a 55 gallon tank. It is very likely that your goldfish are ready for a larger tank... they should be if they are at least 2 yrs old. Fancy goldfish, when healthy, average 7 - 9 inches in length at full grown, and this should happen within about the first 3 yrs. Knowing how large your fish are(and how old they are) tells us alot about their health. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > >Where to start? First, you do not give us any water parameters. We really > >need to know those to even really start to help you diagnose the problem. > >These would include: Temperature; ammonia; nitrite; nitrate; and pH. We also > >need to know all the fish in your tank, and their sizes. This is important, > >because, without the sizes, I'll tell you right off that your tank is > >overcrowded. The two goldfish really need all 55 gallons of your tank. If > >they are really small, you may be able to get away with more fish, but that > would not be for long. > > > I agree with Steve, Goldfish don't belong with the forest fishes. > > & > > We need more data. > > I wish I had been a part of this forum some time > ago, this sounds like real challenging fun! > > Let's save some Aquarists!! and their Fishes!!! > > Charles H > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Levamisole HCl lives here. > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49227	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/16/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish care in winter

Sue, Stop feeding when the water reaches 50°F, about 10°C. The digestive system will shut down as the temperature drops, but it will not stop the fish from feeding. Over the winter the food will rot in their system, ultimately ending in the death of the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of suemfrancis Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish care in winter Hi I have 4000+ litre pond which I constructed a few months ago - with a depth of 1 metre. The water testing shows it has probably cycled and I am running a filter (which cant be used once the tempertature drops below 0). I have 5no. 2" goldfish and 2no. 2" shubumkins. A few marginal plants which are just beginning to establish. My question is: Should I feed at all in the winter once the temperature drops below 0 - if so how often? Bearing in mind the fact that the pond isnt properly established yet. And what do others recommend for stopping the ponding completely icing over? Thank you for help Sue Francis Surrey, England ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49228	From: suemfrancis	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: Yellow Guppy

Hi Could anyone answer this query. I had two male bright yellow guppies (Bright yellow tale bottom half of body yellow and rest silver), I lost one and bought a replacement. This fish had a black on the top of its head but the original one had no sign of any black on the head. When I queried this with the fish shop, I was told that these yellow guppies all get black heads in time. When I looked in another shop many of their guppies had black heads when six months earlier they didnt. Would this just be the breeding rather than the age of the guppy. Three months down the line I lost this black headed guppy but still have the original one minus the black head - I was wondering if the black head was just its colouration and had no bearing on his age? Also do others successfully keep male guppies with no female? Thank you Sue Francis Surrey, England

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49229	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update

Catfish Convention News. Held, this year, in Fairfax, VA. \\Steve// From: Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:33 AM To: Subject: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update Hello Conventioneers! Field Trips are selling out! Right now our field trip to the zoo and D.C. National Aquarium on Friday is our most popular trip. This trip will take participants to the National Zoo where they can tour the Amazonia Exhibit, which features a ray tank, and another tank of 27,000 gallons which holds the arapaima, pacu, red-tailed cats, and other fish of the Amazon. Amazonia offers a rain-forest walk with over 350 plants native to that region of the world. Further along the zoo path you will find the Invertebrate House with more aquariums featuring crabs, cuttlefish, corals, and other inverts. Later in the trip participants will go to the D.C. National Aquarium downtown for a tour of the nation's oldest aquarium. Housed in the basement of the Commerce Building and built in 1932, the aquarium offers many tanks featuring colorful displays. For more information on the National Zoo go to: http://nationalzoo.si.edu/ For more information on the National Aquarium go to: http://www.nationalaquarium.org/index.html Our other trips will take convention participants to local fish stores, and on a collecting trip. At the last convention in 2008, I was the host for the local fish tour and we had a really good time. This time we will re-visit Discus Hans, Exotic Aquatics, and House of Tropicals -- all up near Baltimore. These stores offer the very best fish in the Washington metro area and are bringing in special stock for the shopping trip. For more information on stores visit: http://discushans.wordpress.com/ http://www.houseoftropicals.net/ http://www.exoticaquatics.com/ Bob Bock and Josh Weigert will take another trip out to the wilds of Virginia for a collecting trip as well. I've been to the location and had a terrific day collecting fish. It was idyllic and only the second time I had been wild collecting. We caught a lot that day and you will too! Be sure to sign up for your field trip today. Bus seats are going fast! We will increase the size of the bus, given enough sign-ups, but we need to get a bottom line on numbers soon! You can register for any of the field trips at: http://catfish2010.com/test/fieldtrips.php BIG NEWS: We have nearly all the vendor tables sold and we are still 34 days out from the show! Look for your favorite vendors in the vendor room, across from the ballroom at the hotel. We will host the following vendors at AACC10: Finley Aquatic Books Kingfish Services Margarita Tours Pleco Caves South Central Cichlids Tony Orso USA Xtreme Aquatic Foods Baylees Fishies Ken's Fish Amazon Tropicals In other news, we still have advertising opportunities in the Convention Show program. A business-card sized ad goes for $25, half page goes for $50 and a full page is only $80! Get you name out in front of a targeted audience with an ad in the program today. Please email me at: gardengirl7@... if you are interested in an ad. We can even help you with a design! We also have openings for sponsorship of the fish show: Best of Catfish Show $150 Best of All Freshwater Species Show $150 People's Choice Award $150 Best of Class $50 per class Please let me know if you or your company would like to sponsor any class in the show. Tee-shirt orders are flowing in. If you forgot to order yours just go to the website at www.catfish2010.com! <http://www.catfish2010.com%21%C2%A0> ; Deadlines for Tee-Shirts is October 5th! Pre-registration for the Sunday all-day Auction will begin October 2nd. Stay tuned for more information on the Sunday auction in future emails! As always, if you have any questions, or need any help with getting to the convention, please let me know. Only 34 more days! Sherry Mitchell Co-Chair, All-Aquarium Catfish Convention 2010 President, Potomac Valley Aquarium Society PVAS ~ Since 1960, Transforming the hobby one tank at a time....... AACC10 ~ Where all the Cool Cats will be....... www.pvas.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49230	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Okay, Rachael, We all read your ordeal with the mixed tank and bumps and ich, etc. Have offered some ideas. So, How are the fish doing now and what if anything has changed. I am missing the Rest of the Story . . . Charles H >Charles, I understand your purpose of reducing >all of the possible contaminant levels, which >PWC's will of course do, and while we don't know >yet what the ammonia and nitrite levels are >(they may be at zero, where they should be), >even despite the somewhat less frequent PWCing >regimen here that we would encourage, here will >always be a build up of nitrate as the natural >result of nitrification. Please do not say that >nitrates will not bother fish -- AS THEY MOST >CERTAINLY WILL, when they reach excessive >levels. We strive to keep the nitrate level >below 40 ppm -- the closer to zero, the better >-(even though that can seldom be achieved as >this product is continually being produced with >little else to remove it save for any aquatic >plants which may otherwise be using some). > >As for Rachel's ammonia and nitrite levels, >while they may be in line with what we'd hope >for, we cannot assume that they are. Here, we >really need the results of these tests, in >numbers, to enable us to proceed much further, >but in attempting to address these issues at >this time I believe it to be prudent to at least >act in the proper direction, as I've outlined >previously. To advance any further, and which >may well be crucial to the ultimate diagnosis >and treatment, we need the test results of all >the water parameters, just as \\Steve// pointed >out. > >Not knowing even the pH of this water at this >time, we can only recommend performing a more >moderate, yet still beneficial PWC. For that >matter, we don't even know the parameters of >Rachel's tap water, more specifically its pH and >KH -- which would dictate how large of a >difference any PWC would impose on her aquarium >water's present pH. It's for that reason, I >would even hesitate making 50% PWC's without yet >knowing her tank water's parameters and how much >her tap water's parameters would change her >present parameters -- although it's safe to say >that at least a 1/3rd change of water would >certainly be safe (and needed before medicinal >treatment to ensure or at least improve the >quality of the water). If the parameters >indicate that more water can safely be changed, >I too would recommend a lsrger PWC (and more >frequent PWC's from here on). Then too, with >having the results of the parameter levels, they >may show that larger PWC's are not necessary. > >To change out sufficient water as to make this >tank's water alkaline (basic), when it might now >be acidic -- and without even knowing all of the >parameters yet -- is rather foolhardy to say the >least, even if the fish may be able to withstand >the shock (which I see as doubtful). Just as >you've already alluded to, Ammonia at a high pH >will "bother" the fish (as you put it), and may >be downright lethal to them, if not already, >toxic. I'm sorry to have to say that such a >drastic move in pH, especially without knowing >any other of the parameters, could only be >viewed as not being entirely responsible fish >keeping -- and view just the same even if all >other parameters, besides a potentially large >shift in pH, were at the their acceptable >levels. Please know, with exception only of >those fish requiring high pH levels (such as >Rift Lake Cichlids, as an example), that low pH >-- within reason (and I'm not referring to a pH >of 4.5!) -- will not "bother" most tropical >fishes. Most fishes will adjust to small pH >changes towards either range, especially when >the change is done more slowly -- as would be >seen as part of nitrification, only if >insufficient PWC's were performed. There are >still a number of certain species though, that >would thrive much better in alkaline (basic) >water, more specifically most of the Livebearers >for instance, although they can easily tolerate >a pH of 6.8 or so when the water is otherwise >pristine and free of organic waste products. > >As for your remark concerning, "Change as much >water as often as you can," I go along with you >100% on this, but before being able to change >larger quantities, your tank water's parameters >must be brought in line with the parameters of >your tap water to enable you to change out any >copious amounts without inducing stress. Yes, a >good water change will remove a good portion of >any built up compounds, known or unknown, as >well as a good portion of anything problematic >and causing stress to the fish -- but, before >doing so, any water changes must be done in >amounts that we can be assured will not cause >any further stress on the fish, keeping their >water parameters within the range that will not >promote pH shock or osmotic pressure issues. >When these parameters are unknown, as they are >here, we can't afford to err outside of being >cautious. Ray > > > > >-- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: >> >> It is my interest to reduce the likely hood there >> is Nitrite levels above livable levels for the >> majority of the inhabitants of the glass cage. I >> can't diagnose the real problem/disease or >> parasite without a lot more information. Fresh >> water can't hurt anything any more than a good >> heavy rain will do in the wild. It is not >> Nitrates that bother the fish, it's NitrITES and >> low pH or Ammonia or Ammonium at high pHs. >> >> A good water change may take away a lot of built >> up compounds unknown as well as removing anything >> problematic unknown. >> >> So, we need pictures and water chemistry report from the aquarists. >> >> -- >> }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ >> Change as much water as often as you can! >> Charles Harrison in St Louis >> http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49231	From: rachaelsimone30	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

Hi everyone, I want to thank each and everyone of you for your suggestions. I have moved the goldfish into a temp aquarium, and I'm treating the 55 gallon for ick. All the fish are still alive and seem to be doing okay. They are no worse. For the person who asked what kind of fish I have, I have a pleco, 2 dojos, 2 tiger barbs, 2 gouramies, 3 flame tetras, some sort of tetra that is pink, and some other kind of little fish. All are smaller fish except the pleco (he is 8 years old), and the goldfish. The man at the petstore told us that if we got a goldfish that our snail problem would go away, so thats how we ended up with him. And the little snails all got ate. Now we are stuck with this big goldfish.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49232	From: pam andress	Date: 9/17/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update

You just had to remind me that I'm going to be missing a GREAT time didn't you! I wish I lived closer so I could go. Now I'm going to go have a good cry. Pam Catfish Convention News. Held, this year, in Fairfax, VA. \\Steve// From: Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:33 AM To: Subject: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update Hello Conventioneers! Field Trips are selling out! Right now our field trip to the zoo and D.C. National Aquarium on Friday is our most popular trip. This trip will take participants to the National Zoo where they can tour the Amazonia Exhibit, which features a ray tank, and another tank of 27,000 gallons which holds the arapaima, pacu, red-tailed cats, and other fish of the Amazon. Amazonia offers a rain-forest walk with over 350 plants native to that region of the world. Further along the zoo path you will find the Invertebrate House with more aquariums featuring crabs, cuttlefish, corals, and other inverts. Later in the trip participants will go to the D.C. National Aquarium downtown for a tour of the nation's oldest aquarium. Housed in the basement of the Commerce Building and built in 1932, the aquarium offers many tanks featuring colorful displays. For more information on the National Zoo go to: http://nationalzoo.si.edu/ For more information on the National Aquarium go to: http://www.nationalaquarium.org/index.html Our other trips will take convention participants to local fish stores, and on a collecting trip. At the last convention in 2008, I was the host for the local fish tour and we had a really good time. This time we will re-visit Discus Hans, Exotic Aquatics, and House of Tropicals -- all up near Baltimore. These stores offer the very best fish in the Washington metro area and are bringing in special stock for the shopping trip. For more information on stores visit: http://discushans.wordpress.com/ http://www.houseoftropicals.net/ http://www.exoticaquatics.com/ Bob Bock and Josh Weigert will take another trip out to the wilds of Virginia for a collecting trip as well. I've been to the location and had a terrific day collecting fish. It was idyllic and only the second time I had been wild collecting. We caught a lot that day and you will too! Be sure to sign up for your field trip today. Bus seats are going fast! We will increase the size of the bus, given enough sign-ups, but we need to get a bottom line on numbers soon! You can register for any of the field trips at: http://catfish2010.com/test/fieldtrips.php BIG NEWS: We have nearly all the vendor tables sold and we are still 34 days out from the show! Look for your favorite vendors in the vendor room, across from the ballroom at the hotel. We will host the following vendors at AACC10: Finley Aquatic Books Kingfish Services Margarita Tours Pleco Caves South Central Cichlids Tony Orso USA Xtreme Aquatic Foods Baylees Fishies Ken's Fish Amazon Tropicals In other news, we still have advertising opportunities in the Convention Show program. A business-card sized ad goes for $25, half page goes for $50 and a full page is only $80! Get you name out in front of a targeted audience with an ad in the program today. Please email me at: gardengirl7@... if you are interested in an ad. We can even help you with a design! We also have openings for sponsorship of the fish show: Best of Catfish Show $150 Best of All Freshwater Species Show $150 People's Choice Award $150 Best of Class $50 per class Please let me know if you or your company would like to sponsor any class in the show. Tee-shirt orders are flowing in. If you forgot to order yours just go to the website at www.catfish2010.com! <http://www.catfish2010.com%21%C2%A0> ; Deadlines for Tee-Shirts is October 5th! Pre-registration for the Sunday all-day Auction will begin October 2nd. Stay tuned for more information on the Sunday auction in future emails! As always, if you have any questions, or need any help with getting to the convention, please let me know. Only 34 more days! Sherry Mitchell Co-Chair, All-Aquarium Catfish Convention 2010 President, Potomac Valley Aquarium Society PVAS ~ Since 1960, Transforming the hobby one tank at a time....... AACC10 ~ Where all the Cool Cats will be....... www.pvas.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49233	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update

So how was it? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 1:03 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update You just had to remind me that I'm going to be missing a GREAT time didn't you! I wish I lived closer so I could go. Now I'm going to go have a good cry. Pam Catfish Convention News. Held, this year, in Fairfax, VA. \\Steve// From: Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:33 AM To: Subject: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update Hello Conventioneers! Field Trips are selling out! Right now our field trip to the zoo and D.C. National Aquarium on Friday is our most popular trip. This trip will take participants to the National Zoo where they can tour the Amazonia Exhibit, which features a ray tank, and another tank of 27,000 gallons which holds the arapaima, pacu, red-tailed cats, and other fish of the Amazon. Amazonia offers a rain-forest walk with over 350 plants native to that region of the world. Further along the zoo path you will find the Invertebrate House with more aquariums featuring crabs, cuttlefish, corals, and other inverts. Later in the trip participants will go to the D.C. National Aquarium downtown for a tour of the nation's oldest aquarium. Housed in the basement of the Commerce Building and built in 1932, the aquarium offers many tanks featuring colorful displays. For more information on the National Zoo go to: http://nationalzoo.si.edu/ For more information on the National Aquarium go to: http://www.nationalaquarium.org/index.html Our other trips will take convention participants to local fish stores, and on a collecting trip. At the last convention in 2008, I was the host for the local fish tour and we had a really good time. This time we will re-visit Discus Hans, Exotic Aquatics, and House of Tropicals -- all up near Baltimore. These stores offer the very best fish in the Washington metro area and are bringing in special stock for the shopping trip. For more information on stores visit: http://discushans.wordpress.com/ http://www.houseoftropicals.net/ http://www.exoticaquatics.com/ Bob Bock and Josh Weigert will take another trip out to the wilds of Virginia for a collecting trip as well. I've been to the location and had a terrific day collecting fish. It was idyllic and only the second time I had been wild collecting. We caught a lot that day and you will too! Be sure to sign up for your field trip today. Bus seats are going fast! We will increase the size of the bus, given enough sign-ups, but we need to get a bottom line on numbers soon! You can register for any of the field trips at: http://catfish2010.com/test/fieldtrips.php BIG NEWS: We have nearly all the vendor tables sold and we are still 34 days out from the show! Look for your favorite vendors in the vendor room, across from the ballroom at the hotel. We will host the following vendors at AACC10: Finley Aquatic Books Kingfish Services Margarita Tours Pleco Caves South Central Cichlids Tony Orso USA Xtreme Aquatic Foods Baylees Fishies Ken's Fish Amazon Tropicals In other news, we still have advertising opportunities in the Convention Show program. A business-card sized ad goes for $25, half page goes for $50 and a full page is only $80! Get you name out in front of a targeted audience with an ad in the program today. Please email me at: gardengirl7@... if you are interested in an ad. We can even help you with a design! We also have openings for sponsorship of the fish show: Best of Catfish Show $150 Best of All Freshwater Species Show $150 People's Choice Award $150 Best of Class $50 per class Please let me know if you or your company would like to sponsor any class in the show. Tee-shirt orders are flowing in. If you forgot to order yours just go to the website at www.catfish2010.com! <http://www.catfish2010.com%21%C2%A0> ; Deadlines for Tee-Shirts is October 5th! Pre-registration for the Sunday all-day Auction will begin October 2nd. Stay tuned for more information on the Sunday auction in future emails! As always, if you have any questions, or need any help with getting to the convention, please let me know. Only 34 more days! Sherry Mitchell Co-Chair, All-Aquarium Catfish Convention 2010 President, Potomac Valley Aquarium Society PVAS ~ Since 1960, Transforming the hobby one tank at a time....... AACC10 ~ Where all the Cool Cats will be....... www.pvas.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49234	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update

Pam, Don't feel bad. I live less than 30 minutes away, and I'll be lucky if I can spend some time there on the Saturday of the convention.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 1:03 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update You just had to remind me that I'm going to be missing a GREAT time didn't you! I wish I lived closer so I could go. Now I'm going to go have a good cry. Pam Catfish Convention News. Held, this year, in Fairfax, VA. \\Steve// From: Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:33 AM To: Subject: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update Hello Conventioneers! Field Trips are selling out! Right now our field trip to the zoo and D.C. National Aquarium on Friday is our most popular trip. This trip will take participants to the National Zoo where they can tour the Amazonia Exhibit, which features a ray tank, and another tank of 27,000 gallons which holds the arapaima, pacu, red-tailed cats, and other fish of the Amazon. Amazonia offers a rain-forest walk with over 350 plants native to that region of the world. Further along the zoo path you will find the Invertebrate House with more aquariums featuring crabs, cuttlefish, corals, and other inverts. Later in the trip participants will go to the D.C. National Aquarium downtown for a tour of the nation's oldest aquarium. Housed in the basement of the Commerce Building and built in 1932, the aquarium offers many tanks featuring colorful displays. For more information on the National Zoo go to: http://nationalzoo.si.edu/ For more information on the National Aquarium go to: http://www.nationalaquarium.org/index.html Our other trips will take convention participants to local fish stores, and on a collecting trip. At the last convention in 2008, I was the host for the local fish tour and we had a really good time. This time we will re-visit Discus Hans, Exotic Aquatics, and House of Tropicals -- all up near Baltimore. These stores offer the very best fish in the Washington metro area and are bringing in special stock for the shopping trip. For more information on stores visit: http://discushans.wordpress.com/ http://www.houseoftropicals.net/ http://www.exoticaquatics.com/ Bob Bock and Josh Weigert will take another trip out to the wilds of Virginia for a collecting trip as well. I've been to the location and had a terrific day collecting fish. It was idyllic and only the second time I had been wild collecting. We caught a lot that day and you will too! Be sure to sign up for your field trip today. Bus seats are going fast! We will increase the size of the bus, given enough sign-ups, but we need to get a bottom line on numbers soon! You can register for any of the field trips at: http://catfish2010.com/test/fieldtrips.php BIG NEWS: We have nearly all the vendor tables sold and we are still 34 days out from the show! Look for your favorite vendors in the vendor room, across from the ballroom at the hotel. We will host the following vendors at AACC10: Finley Aquatic Books Kingfish Services Margarita Tours Pleco Caves South Central Cichlids Tony Orso USA Xtreme Aquatic Foods Baylees Fishies Ken's Fish Amazon Tropicals In other news, we still have advertising opportunities in the Convention Show program. A business-card sized ad goes for $25, half page goes for $50 and a full page is only $80! Get you name out in front of a targeted audience with an ad in the program today. Please email me at: gardengirl7@... if you are interested in an ad. We can even help you with a design! We also have openings for sponsorship of the fish show: Best of Catfish Show $150 Best of All Freshwater Species Show $150 People's Choice Award $150 Best of Class $50 per class Please let me know if you or your company would like to sponsor any class in the show. Tee-shirt orders are flowing in. If you forgot to order yours just go to the website at www.catfish2010.com! <http://www.catfish2010.com%21%C2%A0> ; Deadlines for Tee-Shirts is October 5th! Pre-registration for the Sunday all-day Auction will begin October 2nd. Stay tuned for more information on the Sunday auction in future emails! As always, if you have any questions, or need any help with getting to the convention, please let me know. Only 34 more days! Sherry Mitchell Co-Chair, All-Aquarium Catfish Convention 2010 President, Potomac Valley Aquarium Society PVAS ~ Since 1960, Transforming the hobby one tank at a time....... AACC10 ~ Where all the Cool Cats will be....... www.pvas.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49235	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update

Donna, It hasn't happened yet. However, if you would like a blow by blow, I can make something up for you right now. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 7:27 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update So how was it? -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 1:03 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update You just had to remind me that I'm going to be missing a GREAT time didn't you! I wish I lived closer so I could go. Now I'm going to go have a good cry. Pam Catfish Convention News. Held, this year, in Fairfax, VA. \\Steve// From: Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 11:33 AM To: Subject: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update Hello Conventioneers! Field Trips are selling out! Right now our field trip to the zoo and D.C. National Aquarium on Friday is our most popular trip. This trip will take participants to the National Zoo where they can tour the Amazonia Exhibit, which features a ray tank, and another tank of 27,000 gallons which holds the arapaima, pacu, red-tailed cats, and other fish of the Amazon. Amazonia offers a rain-forest walk with over 350 plants native to that region of the world. Further along the zoo path you will find the Invertebrate House with more aquariums featuring crabs, cuttlefish, corals, and other inverts. Later in the trip participants will go to the D.C. National Aquarium downtown for a tour of the nation's oldest aquarium. Housed in the basement of the Commerce Building and built in 1932, the aquarium offers many tanks featuring colorful displays. For more information on the National Zoo go to: http://nationalzoo.si.edu/ For more information on the National Aquarium go to: http://www.nationalaquarium.org/index.html Our other trips will take convention participants to local fish stores, and on a collecting trip. At the last convention in 2008, I was the host for the local fish tour and we had a really good time. This time we will re-visit Discus Hans, Exotic Aquatics, and House of Tropicals -- all up near Baltimore. These stores offer the very best fish in the Washington metro area and are bringing in special stock for the shopping trip. For more information on stores visit: http://discushans.wordpress.com/ http://www.houseoftropicals.net/ http://www.exoticaquatics.com/ Bob Bock and Josh Weigert will take another trip out to the wilds of Virginia for a collecting trip as well. I've been to the location and had a terrific day collecting fish. It was idyllic and only the second time I had been wild collecting. We caught a lot that day and you will too! Be sure to sign up for your field trip today. Bus seats are going fast! We will increase the size of the bus, given enough sign-ups, but we need to get a bottom line on numbers soon! You can register for any of the field trips at: http://catfish2010.com/test/fieldtrips.php BIG NEWS: We have nearly all the vendor tables sold and we are still 34 days out from the show! Look for your favorite vendors in the vendor room, across from the ballroom at the hotel. We will host the following vendors at AACC10: Finley Aquatic Books Kingfish Services Margarita Tours Pleco Caves South Central Cichlids Tony Orso USA Xtreme Aquatic Foods Baylees Fishies Ken's Fish Amazon Tropicals In other news, we still have advertising opportunities in the Convention Show program. A business-card sized ad goes for $25, half page goes for $50 and a full page is only $80! Get you name out in front of a targeted audience with an ad in the program today. Please email me at: gardengirl7@... if you are interested in an ad. We can even help you with a design! We also have openings for sponsorship of the fish show: Best of Catfish Show $150 Best of All Freshwater Species Show $150 People's Choice Award $150 Best of Class $50 per class Please let me know if you or your company would like to sponsor any class in the show. Tee-shirt orders are flowing in. If you forgot to order yours just go to the website at www.catfish2010.com! <http://www.catfish2010.com%21%C2%A0> ; Deadlines for Tee-Shirts is October 5th! Pre-registration for the Sunday all-day Auction will begin October 2nd. Stay tuned for more information on the Sunday auction in future emails! As always, if you have any questions, or need any help with getting to the convention, please let me know. Only 34 more days! Sherry Mitchell Co-Chair, All-Aquarium Catfish Convention 2010 President, Potomac Valley Aquarium Society PVAS ~ Since 1960, Transforming the hobby one tank at a time....... AACC10 ~ Where all the Cool Cats will be....... www.pvas.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49236	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: VA: Smuggled Snails: Another Strange Find by U.S. Customs

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/weird/Smuggled-Snails-Another-Strange-Find-by-US-Customs.html?__source=Newsletter-Daily&em=146915490;jif=146915490104697;dcove=r; http://tinyurl.com/22v2m4v Smuggled Snails: Another Strange Find by U.S. Customs Snail-Smuggling Traveler Stopped at Dulles Updated 6:06 PM EDT, Fri, Sep 10, 2010 More now in our continuing series on strange stuff people try to sneak through customs. It was Labor Day weekend at Washington Dulles International Airport. U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents were bemused by the belongings of a traveler arriving from Ghana. The West African man possessed a package containing 14 Giant African Land Snails. It's not clear what he planned to do with them. Some people keep them as pets, but the snails are illegal in the United States because they are invasive crop-killing pests and prodigious reproducers. LOOK The contraband snails were each about the size of a child's fist, although they can grow as large as eight inches long and four inches tall. The traveler was not penalized but the snails were destroyed because they were considered a threat. Fan, Follow and Text: Get the latest from NBCWashington.com anytime, anywhere. First Published: Sep 9, 2010 12:16 PM EDT \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49237	From: athreya	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Gold fishes & Mollies ?

Hi, I had query on how Goldfishes and Mollies would do together in a pond of 50 gallons. Regards, Athreya

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49238	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: Gold fishes & Mollies ?

Athrey, They will not. Goldfish are a freshwater, temperate fish, mollies are a tropical freshwater/brackish water fish. Goldfish will not enjoy temperatures much over 70°F and mollies will not enjoy temperatures much below 75°F. 50 gallons of water is enough for one goldfish, and maybe a smaller companion such as several white cloud mountain fish. Depending on the species f molly, you can have 10-15 of them in the same amount of water, and still have room for some fry, which will inevitably come. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of athreya Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? Hi, I had query on how Goldfishes and Mollies would do together in a pond of 50 gallons. Regards, Athreya

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49239	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: Gold fishes & Mollies ?

My goldfish ate the minnows I put in for the turtles to eat. My guess is they would also have eaten Mollies! ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, September 18, 2010 12:41:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? Athrey, They will not. Goldfish are a freshwater, temperate fish, mollies are a tropical freshwater/brackish water fish. Goldfish will not enjoy temperatures much over 70°F and mollies will not enjoy temperatures much below 75°F. 50 gallons of water is enough for one goldfish, and maybe a smaller companion such as several white cloud mountain fish. Depending on the species f molly, you can have 10-15 of them in the same amount of water, and still have room for some fry, which will inevitably come. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of athreya Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? Hi, I had query on how Goldfishes and Mollies would do together in a pond of 50 gallons. Regards, Athreya ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49240	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: Gold fishes & Mollies ?

Laurie, While it is not unheard of, goldfish, in my experience, seldom eat other fish. In any case, most mollies are large enough not to be considered a snack for the goldfish, except, maybe, the very largest goldfish, and a rather young, still growing molly. And a quick apology the Athreya for the misspelling. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 3:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? My goldfish ate the minnows I put in for the turtles to eat. My guess is they would also have eaten Mollies! ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, September 18, 2010 12:41:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? Athrey, They will not. Goldfish are a freshwater, temperate fish, mollies are a tropical freshwater/brackish water fish. Goldfish will not enjoy temperatures much over 70°F and mollies will not enjoy temperatures much below 75°F. 50 gallons of water is enough for one goldfish, and maybe a smaller companion such as several white cloud mountain fish. Depending on the species f molly, you can have 10-15 of them in the same amount of water, and still have room for some fry, which will inevitably come. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of athreya Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? Hi, I had query on how Goldfishes and Mollies would do together in a pond of 50 gallons. Regards, Athreya ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49241	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: Gold fishes & Mollies ?

Yeah, I was rather surprised myself. There is 1 carp mixed in with the goldies, perhaps it was the instigator. These were feeder goldfish that were to fast for the turtles. We are intending to move them to their own tank when time allows. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, September 18, 2010 3:32:14 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? Laurie, While it is not unheard of, goldfish, in my experience, seldom eat other fish. In any case, most mollies are large enough not to be considered a snack for the goldfish, except, maybe, the very largest goldfish, and a rather young, still growing molly. And a quick apology the Athreya for the misspelling. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 3:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? My goldfish ate the minnows I put in for the turtles to eat. My guess is they would also have eaten Mollies! ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, September 18, 2010 12:41:17 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? Athrey, They will not. Goldfish are a freshwater, temperate fish, mollies are a tropical freshwater/brackish water fish. Goldfish will not enjoy temperatures much over 70°F and mollies will not enjoy temperatures much below 75°F. 50 gallons of water is enough for one goldfish, and maybe a smaller companion such as several white cloud mountain fish. Depending on the species f molly, you can have 10-15 of them in the same amount of water, and still have room for some fry, which will inevitably come. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of athreya Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Gold fishes & Mollies ? Hi, I had query on how Goldfishes and Mollies would do together in a pond of 50 gallons. Regards, Athreya ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49242	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Japan's Frozen Aquarium

http://www.gearfuse.com/japans-frozen-aquarium/ Next time you happen to be in Japan, you may want to plan for some time to go to this aquarium. Japan's Kori no Suizokukan, located in Kesennuma, Miyagi Prefecture houses a collection of 450 specimens of 80 or so different species of marine wildlife captured at a nearby port. But there's one major difference that separates this aquarium from any other - all of the wildlife is frozen in massive blocks of ice. A flash freezing technique is used to keep the specimens in optimal conditions at all times. Spectators are limited to only a few minutes of viewing because of the -20 Celsius temperatures inside of the aquarium's depths. All attendees must wear a special suit made for preventing exposure. Without the suits, most visitors would experience severe pain within minutes. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49243	From: pam andress	Date: 9/18/2010
Subject: Re: FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update

WHAT! I would make time to go to that if I lived that close. I love my kittyfish and would love to be able to go to this convention. Shame on you Steve! ;) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: steve@... Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 08:36:11 -0400 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update Pam, Don't feel bad. I live less than 30 minutes away, and I'll be lucky if I can spend some time there on the Saturday of the convention.. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pam andress Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 1:03 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] FW: 9/17/10 -- Catfish Convention Update You just had to remind me that I'm going to be missing a GREAT time didn't you! I wish I lived closer so I could go. Now I'm going to go have a good cry. Pam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49244	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/23/2010
Subject: Article on Axelrod

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1077179/1/index.htm http://tinyurl.com/2cfz6jm The links above should bring you to an article about Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod that appeared, of all places, in the May 3, 1965 issue of Sports Illustrated. Some people have reported problems with the original link given (on another list) so, if you have a problem, just place the word axelrod in the search box, and the article comes up as the first link on the third page of results. Be aware that much of the article is based on what Axelrod claims and had said, and, as such, is largely based on "facts" that are not real. Despite his personal failings, Axelrod was a major force in the hobby for many years and was the founder of TFH, which is now owned by another company and still publishes TFH magazine and many books on fish and other animal care. During his time in the limelight, his business dealings were fraught with various chicanery and outright deceit. Any stories that are told about him that came from him can be considered to be, at least, inflated, if not out and out lies. However, the article is still interesting reading. Since his retirement, Axelrod has spent time in a federal prison, I believe it was on tax fraud charges, barely escaped another conviction for defrauding the NJ Symphony, and is now living in Switzerland as he is a virtual outcast in this country. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49245	From: Wendie	Date: 9/23/2010
Subject: Re: Article on Axelrod

Brings back memories. I met with him back in the early '60's as he offered me a job. I met him, his wife, and several VIP's working on the magazine. He had a beautiful 6 foot tank directly across from his desk in the office which I'd love to have even now. I got to tour his entire plant - which is basically what it was - and saw the operations first hand. I was to assist and then take over the Q & A section of TFH. I was young, nervous, and just wasn't into fooling with the taxes. Yes, even then he wanted to bypass paying state taxes and set up a false residence for me in New Jersey. I respected him so, but found it kind of a downer when he came up with that. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Article on Axelrod http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1077179/1/index.htm http://tinyurl.com/2cfz6jm The links above should bring you to an article about Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod that appeared, of all places, in the May 3, 1965 issue of Sports Illustrated. Some people have reported problems with the original link given (on another list) so, if you have a problem, just place the word axelrod in the search box, and the article comes up as the first link on the third page of results. Be aware that much of the article is based on what Axelrod claims and had said, and, as such, is largely based on "facts" that are not real. Despite his personal failings, Axelrod was a major force in the hobby for many years and was the founder of TFH, which is now owned by another company and still publishes TFH magazine and many books on fish and other animal care. During his time in the limelight, his business dealings were fraught with various chicanery and outright deceit. Any stories that are told about him that came from him can be considered to be, at least, inflated, if not out and out lies. However, the article is still interesting reading. Since his retirement, Axelrod has spent time in a federal prison, I believe it was on tax fraud charges, barely escaped another conviction for defrauding the NJ Symphony, and is now living in Switzerland as he is a virtual outcast in this country. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49246	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/23/2010
Subject: Re: Article on Axelrod

Wendie, How's Peter? (Sorry, couldn't resist.) To give you a little more perspective on Herbie's latest travails, go here: http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/a/herbert_r_ax elrod/index.html http://tinyurl.com/2a24em8 This gives a listing of articles that appeared in the New York Times. [Free registration is required to access the site.] You seem to have been around for a while, so you may be interested in another list here on Yahoo!, the Aquarium Hobby Historical Society which can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety/. You'll need a Yahoo! ID to access it fully, which is what you will want to do after joining it, and look at the last week's, or a bit more, messages. Should prove to be interesting to you, I think. If you just want to subscribe, then you can just send an e-mail to AquariumHobbyHistoricalSociety-subscribe@yahoogroups.com If you look at the monthly message tallies, you'll note that the traffic ebbs and flows, so it should not be too hard to keep up with. Once you start reading, you may notice a number of familiar names on the list, and you may actually know some of them. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendie Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 8:41 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Article on Axelrod Brings back memories. I met with him back in the early '60's as he offered me a job. I met him, his wife, and several VIP's working on the magazine. He had a beautiful 6 foot tank directly across from his desk in the office which I'd love to have even now. I got to tour his entire plant - which is basically what it was - and saw the operations first hand. I was to assist and then take over the Q & A section of TFH. I was young, nervous, and just wasn't into fooling with the taxes. Yes, even then he wanted to bypass paying state taxes and set up a false residence for me in New Jersey. I respected him so, but found it kind of a downer when he came up with that. Wendie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 6:50 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Article on Axelrod http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1077179/1/index.h tm http://tinyurl.com/2cfz6jm The links above should bring you to an article about Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod that appeared, of all places, in the May 3, 1965 issue of Sports Illustrated. Some people have reported problems with the original link given (on another list) so, if you have a problem, just place the word axelrod in the search box, and the article comes up as the first link on the third page of results. Be aware that much of the article is based on what Axelrod claims and had said, and, as such, is largely based on "facts" that are not real. Despite his personal failings, Axelrod was a major force in the hobby for many years and was the founder of TFH, which is now owned by another company and still publishes TFH magazine and many books on fish and other animal care. During his time in the limelight, his business dealings were fraught with various chicanery and outright deceit. Any stories that are told about him that came from him can be considered to be, at least, inflated, if not out and out lies. However, the article is still interesting reading. Since his retirement, Axelrod has spent time in a federal prison, I believe it was on tax fraud charges, barely escaped another conviction for defrauding the NJ Symphony, and is now living in Switzerland as he is a virtual outcast in this country. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49247	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: More on Axelrod

Here is an article published 4/25/2004 in the Star-Ledger out of New Jersey that outlines some of Axelrod's excursions from the truth. http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/starledger/alifeofmoneyandmyths.htm http://tinyurl.com/ybey9nz \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49248	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod

Hi \\Steve//   As always, your postings are always welcomed and read here with interest, but this last offering with that link is a masterpiece!   I happened to be one of those people who grew up with fish from the 1950's until now.  I can remember my Mom and the neighbor lady buying these books and relishing this man's every word.  Later on hearing and reading bits and pieces through the years, I now realize that this man was not the person people believed him to be.    However, it was not until you posted this link with the mention of other “notables” in the hobby that I now realize that my Mom and others were not the only victims of this gentlemen’s chicanery!  I came away from this link plus the recent postings on other groups wondering just what, if anything, did this man actually contribute to our hobby?   Bill     --- On Fri, 9/24/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, September 24, 2010, 8:00 AM Here is an article published 4/25/2004 in the Star-Ledger out of New Jersey that outlines some of Axelrod's excursions from the truth. http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/starledger/alifeofmoneyandmyths.htm http://tinyurl.com/ybey9nz \\Steve// ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49249	From: john Lewis	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod

Hello Steve:    Thanx for finding the article.  What a contrast to the SI article.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 8:00:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod   Here is an article published 4/25/2004 in the Star-Ledger out of New Jersey that outlines some of Axelrod's excursions from the truth. http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/starledger/alifeofmoneyandmyths.htm http://tinyurl.com/ybey9nz \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49251	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod

Villandra, Having read both articles I am a bit confused at how you came to the conclusion of "right wing politics list?". As someone who abhors the current two party system I tend to not follow either party so I come away confused by your statement. I do not wish to draw this conversation out but felt I needed to reply to your comment. I see nothing wrong with either posted article as it does relate to aquatic life. Sincerely, -Mike G, a moderator. -----Original Message----- From: tiggernut24@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Sep 24, 2010 9:44 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Is this suddenly the right wing politics list? If so, I'm leaving, because I sure ain't right wing. Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "john Lewis" <creatureproductions@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Hello Steve: Thanx for finding the article. What a contrast to the SI article. Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 8:00:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Here is an article published 4/25/2004 in the Star-Ledger out of New Jersey that outlines some of Axelrod's excursions from the truth. http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/starledger/alifeofmoneyandmyths.htm http://tinyurl.com/ybey9nz \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49253	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod

Spawn, The first article, the one from SI, and not the swimsuit issue <g>, was basically someone putting down the words spoken by Axelrod. This one, was written from facts unearthed during investigation by the authorities, and filled out by other research. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 11:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Hello Steve: Thanx for finding the article. What a contrast to the SI article. Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 8:00:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Here is an article published 4/25/2004 in the Star-Ledger out of New Jersey that outlines some of Axelrod's excursions from the truth. http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/starledger/alifeofmoneyandmyths.htm http://tinyurl.com/ybey9nz \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49254	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod

Villandra, What on earth is right wing about this topic? The man we are talking about was a force in the hobby, and also a liar, cheat, swindler, you name it. All of this is documented, should one wish to do the research. I have not seen anything yet that could be classified as right-wing. Maybe you can point that out to me. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tiggernut24@... Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Is this suddenly the right wing politics list? If so, I'm leaving, because I sure ain't right wing. Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "john Lewis" <creatureproductions@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Hello Steve: Thanx for finding the article. What a contrast to the SI article. Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 8:00:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Here is an article published 4/25/2004 in the Star-Ledger out of New Jersey that outlines some of Axelrod's excursions from the truth. http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/starledger/alifeofmoneyandmyths.htm http://tinyurl.com/ybey9nz \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49255	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod

Bill, Despite his being a legend in his own mind, and making others think he was, Axelrod did quite a bit for the hobby. The biggest area of his contribution was his publishing of the magazine TFH and all the books on fish. The fact that most of his books were quite reasonably priced so much so that as a kid I could save up enough money to buy them in a very short amount of time. He was also a great story teller, though, as it turned out, many of his stories were just that, stories. He, more or less, filled the gap as Innes was stepping back. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bill 1433 Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:40 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Hi \\Steve// As always, your postings are always welcomed and read here with interest, but this last offering with that link is a masterpiece! I happened to be one of those people who grew up with fish from the 1950's until now. I can remember my Mom and the neighbor lady buying these books and relishing this man's every word. Later on hearing and reading bits and pieces through the years, I now realize that this man was not the person people believed him to be. However, it was not until you posted this link with the mention of other “notables” in the hobby that I now realize that my Mom and others were not the only victims of this gentlemen’s chicanery! I came away from this link plus the recent postings on other groups wondering just what, if anything, did this man actually contribute to our hobby? Bill --- On Fri, 9/24/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, September 24, 2010, 8:00 AM Here is an article published 4/25/2004 in the Star-Ledger out of New Jersey that outlines some of Axelrod's excursions from the truth. http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/starledger/alifeofmoneyandmyths.htm http://tinyurl.com/ybey9nz \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49256	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Axelrod and no it is not politics.

Apparently a member thought that Herbert Axelrod was in the presidential administration. There is an Axelrod in the administration however that person was never mentioned in the article and had the article been read, either one, it would have been very apparent it was not pertaining to politics. Folks, please read before replying :) -Mike G.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49257	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod

Force in the hobby? I thought you were talking about our President's right hand man! Oh well - back to job hunting. Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Villandra, What on earth is right wing about this topic? The man we are talking about was a force in the hobby, and also a liar, cheat, swindler, you name it. All of this is documented, should one wish to do the research. I have not seen anything yet that could be classified as right-wing. Maybe you can point that out to me. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tiggernut24@... Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 12:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Is this suddenly the right wing politics list? If so, I'm leaving, because I sure ain't right wing. Yours, Villandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "john Lewis" <creatureproductions@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Hello Steve: Thanx for finding the article. What a contrast to the SI article. Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 8:00:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Here is an article published 4/25/2004 in the Star-Ledger out of New Jersey that outlines some of Axelrod's excursions from the truth. http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/starledger/alifeofmoneyandmyths.htm http://tinyurl.com/ybey9nz \\Steve// ------------------------------------ AquaticLife A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. `..><((((>.`..`.><((((> .`.. , .`..><((((> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <((((><.`..`.<((((><.`.. , .`..<((((><`.. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49258	From: john Lewis	Date: 9/24/2010
Subject: Re: More on Axelrod

Hello Steve Yep, I'm on the same page. � I'm just surprised a journalist didn't do some quick fact checking though I guess there was no reason for him to do so. � I'll tell you what though, this has been a very eye opening experience. Thanx! Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 6:58:29 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod   Spawn, The first article, the one from SI, and not the swimsuit issue <g>, was basically someone putting down the words spoken by Axelrod. This one, was written from facts unearthed during investigation by the authorities, and filled out by other research. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 11:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Hello Steve: Thanx for finding the article. What a contrast to the SI article. Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 8:00:13 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] More on Axelrod Here is an article published 4/25/2004 in the Star-Ledger out of New Jersey that outlines some of Axelrod's excursions from the truth. http://www.fritz-reuter.com/articles/starledger/alifeofmoneyandmyths.htm http://tinyurl.com/ybey9nz \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49259	From: shrlycat	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and

My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate) contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49260	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

Perhaps a "cousin" to the convict like a Honduran Redpoint, or archocentrus Cutteri, or a Nanoluteus? More color, similar behavior and size. I think if Donna reads this she can correct me on the names and give a better description of this group of fishes. Sam Borstein gave an excellent talk on these fish last month at my local Cichlid club, but I neglected to take notes. -MIke G -----Original Message----- From: shrlycat <shrlycat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 6:55 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and one plec. My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate) contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49261	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: FL: Cash prizes for catching lionfish

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3216&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=September_17_2010_b&utm_term=Cash_prizes_for_catching_lionfish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/28mrttc Cash prizes for catching lionfish Cash prizes for catching lionfish Copyright (c) Nick Hobgood, Creative Commons People in Florida Keys have come up with a novel way of tackling the problem of invasive species. Last week saw the first of three 'derbies' where the aim is to catch as many Indo-Pacific lionfish Pterois volitans/miles as possible. Over 100 divers gathered at the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary in teams to collect nearly 550 of the lionfish for a top prize of $1000. Two more competitions will be held in October and November. This type of event is proving increasingly more popular way to control this species, with facebook pages devoted to the derbies, websites and even forums dedicated to the events. Often the competitors will eat the fish afterwards. Environmental experts are extremely concerned about the impact of the lionfish on the native ecosystem as these fish are extremely fecund with one female producing 15,000 eggs from a single mating and up to three matings a month. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49262	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

Me? I only do African Rift Lakes. There aren't any of those that will fit the requirements here. Maybe Ray will have an idea. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deenerz@... Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 4:00 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and one plec. Perhaps a "cousin" to the convict like a Honduran Redpoint, or archocentrus Cutteri, or a Nanoluteus? More color, similar behavior and size. I think if Donna reads this she can correct me on the names and give a better description of this group of fishes. Sam Borstein gave an excellent talk on these fish last month at my local Cichlid club, but I neglected to take notes. -MIke G -----Original Message----- From: shrlycat <shrlycat@... <mailto:shrlycat%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 6:55 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and one plec. My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate) contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49263	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

How about an angelfish, betta, not large, I know, but gorgeous, another single convict, gold severum, discus, ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: "Deenerz@..." <Deenerz@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, September 25, 2010 1:00:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and one plec. Perhaps a "cousin" to the convict like a Honduran Redpoint, or archocentrus Cutteri, or a Nanoluteus? More color, similar behavior and size. I think if Donna reads this she can correct me on the names and give a better description of this group of fishes. Sam Borstein gave an excellent talk on these fish last month at my local Cichlid club, but I neglected to take notes. -MIke G -----Original Message----- From: shrlycat <shrlycat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2010 6:55 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and one plec. My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate) contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49264	From: shrlycat	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

I was thinking that a smaller fish might be better and could add at least two of them, but would like to have larger and more colorful than the platies and zebra tetras in the tank, so I'm thinking 2" to 3"; I've done some goggling and found possibilities such as: long-fin red minor serpae tetra(I have two of these in a smaller tank); redeye tetra; killifish (clown, golden lyretail, chocolate); bleeding heart tetra, max. length 3" (I really liked the looks of this guy, too.) I'll check out the ones you've suggested. Thanks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo wrote: > > How about an angelfish, betta, not large, I know, but gorgeous, another single > convict, gold severum, discus, > > > ~ Laurie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49265	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 9/25/2010
Subject: Just thought I'd let you folks know

Ok, so I'm really late in posting this. I've just been really busy with getting ready to come back to school and then really busy with classes. Anyway, at the beginning of August, while my and I were on vacation, Pisces the betta passed away. He had been looking a bit off for a few months, so I think it was just too much for him to have his bowl moved over to the neighbor's place so that he could be taken care of while I was gone. Thanks to everyone who advised me as to how to care for him while he was with me. I'll miss him...he was a really good fish. My sister has since taken over the bowl: she cleaned it up and put in a new live plant, three fancy guppies (all males, since a 4 gallon bowl is way too small for a breeding colony), and two ghost shrimp. She did lots of research and figured out that a few male guppies can coexist peacefully (I'm thinking it's like a bachelor pad, LOL) and lead good lives in a bowl. When I finish my degree and am settled into a job and a moderately pet-friendly apartment (the landlord has to be ok with caged reptiles since I have a corn snake whom I refuse to abandon at my parents' house any longer than it takes me to finish school, and I figure if the landlord is ok with caged reptiles fish will be fine too) I will probably get a 10 to 20 gallon aquarium starter kit and set myself up with some community fish. Actually, my favorite fish are black moor goldfish, but those would require at least a 20 gallon according to all the sources I've seen. (I've heard that goldfish are so messy that the normal rule for how many fish to put in a tank doesn't apply, that you need at least ten gallons of water per goldfish. True?) And not all apartments will allow larger than a 15 gallon aquarium because they're afraid of things busting. Anyway, look for me again sometime in the next few years, because when I'm setting up my first aquarium I'll need massive help. Thanks again to everyone who advised me for the time I had Pisces in my care. -Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49266	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/26/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

I have a flame paradise gourami in my 125 gallon tank, they stay smallish (bigger than the platty but not much bigger), he's a little territorial and charges at fish that are in his way, but he never causes any harm to them (just chasing them). He is a big fry eater and keeps my platty population in check though. You might consider a gourami of some type. There are also south american cichlids that are not as aggressive as the rest (such as convicts, they're usually VERY aggressive fish, mine almost killed my oscar years ago). Such as Ram's for example, but the rams can be hard to keep if you don't have the right water conditions. Is your pleco a "common" pleco that gets HUGE? If so I'd consider getting one of the smaller pleco's that stay under 5 inches, such as the clown pleco or the bushy/bristle nose pleco's. I have the BN pleco's myself and I think they're great. Amber On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 5:55 PM, shrlycat <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. > > He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch > of platies and one plec. > > I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his > being alone (no other males or female mate) contributed to his death.) > > So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. > > I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. > > Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will > do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help > reduce the platy population. > > > -- Do not regret the things you've done, but those you did not do. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49267	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/26/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

Also don't get a severum of any kind, they are non aggressive compared to other cichlids BUT they are way too big of a fish for your 40 gallon tank. I had to upgrade to a 125 gallon tank for my severum, and the poor thing died a few weeks ago (my fault but now I know what I did wrong). Also keep an eye on the descriptions of the fish you are looking at, a lot of the ones you were suggesting (serpae, and bleeding hearts for example) require a school to stay happy and they will become more aggressive and temperamental without their school for company. On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...>wrote: > I have a flame paradise gourami in my 125 gallon tank, they stay smallish > (bigger than the platty but not much bigger), he's a little territorial and > charges at fish that are in his way, but he never causes any harm to them > (just chasing them). He is a big fry eater and keeps my platty population in > check though. You might consider a gourami of some type. There are also > south american cichlids that are not as aggressive as the rest of cichlids > (convicts are usually VERY aggressive fish, mine almost killed my oscar > years ago). Such as Ram's for example, but the rams can be hard to keep if > you don't have the right water conditions. > > Is your pleco a "common" pleco that gets HUGE? If so I'd consider getting > one of the smaller pleco's that stay under 5 inches, such as the clown pleco > or the bushy/bristle nose pleco's. I have the BN pleco's myself and I think > they're great. > > Amber > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 5:55 PM, shrlycat <shrlycat@...> wrote: > >> >> >> My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. >> >> He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a >> bunch of platies and one plec. >> >> I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his >> being alone (no other males or female mate) contributed to his death.) >> >> So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. >> >> I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. >> >> Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that >> will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might >> help reduce the platy population. >> >> >> > > > > -- > Do not regret the things you've done, but those you did not do. > -- Do not regret the things you've done, but those you did not do. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49268	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/26/2010
Subject: Re: Just thought I'd let you folks know

You're right that the normal "rules" don't apply for goldfish, but they actually require 30 gallons or more for most goldfish. If you get something smaller than that then you'll have to do more than regular water changes and gravel cleanings (like twice a week or more depending on the size of the tank). If you're getting a 10-20 gallon I'd not recommend a goldfish myself, unless you're up to the extra work at keeping their tank clean. Stick to fish that don't grow more than 2 inches long at max full growth and only get 5-10 (depending on the tank size you pick) fish max and you would be at about the same bioload as that one goldfish, LOL. Amber On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Katherine Whitney <kl_whitney@...>wrote: > > > Ok, so I'm really late in posting this. I've just been really busy with > getting ready to come back to school and then really busy with classes. > Anyway, at the beginning of August, while my and I were on vacation, Pisces > the betta passed away. He had been looking a bit off for a few months, so I > think it was just too much for him to have his bowl moved over to the > neighbor's place so that he could be taken care of while I was gone. Thanks > to everyone who advised me as to how to care for him while he was with me. > I'll miss him...he was a really good fish. > My sister has since taken over the bowl: she cleaned it up and put in a new > live plant, three fancy guppies (all males, since a 4 gallon bowl is way too > small for a breeding colony), and two ghost shrimp. She did lots of research > and figured out that a few male guppies can coexist peacefully (I'm thinking > it's like a bachelor pad, LOL) and lead good lives in a bowl. > When I finish my degree and am settled into a job and a moderately > pet-friendly apartment (the landlord has to be ok with caged reptiles since > I have a corn snake whom I refuse to abandon at my parents' house any longer > than it takes me to finish school, and I figure if the landlord is ok with > caged reptiles fish will be fine too) I will probably get a 10 to 20 gallon > aquarium starter kit and set myself up with some community fish. Actually, > my favorite fish are black moor goldfish, but those would require at least a > 20 gallon according to all the sources I've seen. (I've heard that goldfish > are so messy that the normal rule for how many fish to put in a tank doesn't > apply, that you need at least ten gallons of water per goldfish. True?) And > not all apartments will allow larger than a 15 gallon aquarium because > they're afraid of things busting. > Anyway, look for me again sometime in the next few years, because when I'm > setting up my first aquarium I'll need massive help. > Thanks again to everyone who advised me for the time I had Pisces in my > care. > -Kathy > > > -- Do not regret the things you've done, but those you did not do. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49269	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 9/26/2010
Subject: Wood eating catfish, Amazon river

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/09/photogalleries/100921-new-species-science-armored-wood-eating-catfish-amazon-pictures/?source=link_fb09262010catfish

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49270	From: helenwatson39	Date: 9/27/2010
Subject: for sale large plec

Sadly due to tank trouble i need to rehome my large PLEC it is about 12inches long nose to tail it needs a large tank mine is 4ft. I am in South Yorkshire will send more info if anyone is interested. thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49271	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/28/2010
Subject: Re: hello everyone.. Please read..

I would recommend definitely cleaning your tank and filter more often than every 10 days if you are planning on keeping all these fish and the goldfish together. That pleco and the goldfish are your highest bioload, I would also recommend seeing if the pet/fish store will exchange the pleco for a baby one, or one that does not grow over 5 inches, that will help lower your bioload, but I would wait until you get the fish healthy of course. Do you have a smaller tank that you could move all the little fish into and just keep the goldfish and pleco in the 55 gallon? You could possibly get away with a 20-30 gallon tank for all those smaller fish. With such big fish they are producing a lot of waste and since you're only doing water changes and cleanings approximately every 10 days; the waste is building up in the tank. For lack of a better description; your fish are swimming in their own poo. I would recommend water changes/gravel+filter cleanings twice a week. We never did get any water parameters from you (such as pH, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates), and those would be very helpful to have for us to properly help you. Some problems can be very easy to figure out if we have all the info we need. Right now it's a guessing game, as I'm sure you could tell from all the different responses you have gotten. Hope the fish all pull through for you. Amber On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 7:54 PM, rachaelsimone30 <rachaelsimone30@...>wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > I want to thank each and everyone of you for your suggestions. > > I have moved the goldfish into a temp aquarium, and I'm treating the 55 > gallon for ick. > > All the fish are still alive and seem to be doing okay. > > They are no worse. > > For the person who asked what kind of fish I have, I have a pleco, 2 dojos, > 2 tiger barbs, 2 gouramies, 3 flame tetras, some sort of tetra that is pink, > and some other kind of little fish. > > All are smaller fish except the pleco (he is 8 years old), and the > goldfish. > > The man at the petstore told us that if we got a goldfish that our snail > problem would go away, so thats how we ended up with him. And the little > snails all got ate. Now we are stuck with this big goldfish. > > > -- Do not regret the things you've done, but those you did not do. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49272	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/28/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Guppy

This black head sounds like coloring to me, no bearing on age really, but fish do change color as they get older; often getting their full adult coloring (which will often be different than the juvenile coloring). Also it is fine to keep all male guppies with no females, they will be fine without a female. Amber On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:37 AM, suemfrancis <peterelectrician@... > wrote: > > > Hi > > Could anyone answer this query. I had two male bright yellow guppies > (Bright yellow tale bottom half of body yellow and rest silver), I lost one > and bought a replacement. This fish had a black on the top of its head but > the original one had no sign of any black on the head. > > When I queried this with the fish shop, I was told that these yellow > guppies all get black heads in time. When I looked in another shop many of > their guppies had black heads when six months earlier they didnt. Would this > just be the breeding rather than the age of the guppy. Three months down the > line I lost this black headed guppy but still have the original one minus > the black head - I was wondering if the black head was just its colouration > and had no bearing on > his age? > > Also do others successfully keep male guppies with no female? > > Thank you > > Sue Francis > Surrey, England > > > -- Do not regret the things you've done, but those you did not do. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49273	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 9/28/2010
Subject: (no subject)

Hello,  My name is Denise and I am new to the group.  I currently work at Petsmart in the Petcare department.  I am a retired primate keeper, so fish are relatively new to me.  As the store "go to" person for fish advice, I am interested in all topics and look forward to being a part of AquaticLife.  "I feel more comfortable with gorillas than people. I can anticipate what a gorilla's going to do, and they're purely motivated."    Dian Fossey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49274	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/28/2010
Subject: Re: Pet shop worker

This is the GREATEST!! A real time Petsmart employee asking for professional advice!! You can make such a Great difference in the hobby! Imagine water changes, Bacteria/Protozoa tank cycling before adding fish Compatibility of species and families Water Changes and cleaning Balanced life forms in given volumes of glass cages Simple treatment of Parasites I hope Dian you can grow from this group! The ordinary customer just wants a positive result from their purchase of cages and live stock. I for one am here to help! Charles Harrison, Ph D in St Louis, MO >Hello, My name is Denise and I am new to the >group. I currently work at Petsmart in the >Petcare department. I am a retired primate >keeper, so fish are relatively new to me. As >the store "go to" person for fish advice, I am >interested in all topics and look forward to >being a part of AquaticLife. > >"I feel more comfortable with gorillas than >people. I can anticipate what a gorilla's going >to do, and they're purely motivated." Dian >Fossey -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49276	From: Aaron	Date: 9/29/2010
Subject: LFS Employees (Unite! I know you're out there)

Hello Denise, I too worked at a Big Chain PetC0mpany. (sorry, don't want to say the store name, but it isn't a typ0) I didn't set out looking for a job as I was already busy with my career. However, I was getting a lot of different (i.e. bad) advice from each person at that store. I said out loud to a friend "I can do a better job than that." And not to sound too cocky, I did (shortly thereafter) - despite the obvious that I must not of known much considering I had been asking several of them for advice and help. Lets just say that using a Wet Dry Vac must not have been what they meant when they told me I needed to Vacuum the gravel (about as close as they ever came to giving good advice.) However, they clearly were not on any kind of commission or they could have spared me a lot of grief by selling me a Python No Spill Clean and Fill or even just a Standard Type Gravel Vac or at least showing me what they were actually talking about. So anyway, the guy in the Sears Hardware Department was sorta at a loss for words when I told him I needed a large capacity Wet/Dry so I could clean my fish tank. Disclaimer: (as seen on TV) - Please don't try this at home. (or anywhere else for that matter) I hadn't completely finished turning it on before I instantly realized it was a very bad idea and could not unplug the thing fast enough. It was like the Twilight Zone (nothing to do with vampires) meets David Copperfield - as nearly the entire contents of the aquarium suddenly vanished and simultaneously reappeared, rather violently, all over the ceiling and walls before settling somewhat apprehensively into the carpet. It's been a long slow learning curve (more like a zig-zag actually) and I'm still slowly figuring it out. Sad to say, they have apparently given up completely on the Aquatics Department and have been ripping out rows of aquariums gradually at that same location. The Salt water tanks and half of the remaining Fresh water Section have been boarded up all year. There were, years ago, several more rows, each about 3 tanks high about 3 across back-to-back, maybe as many as 54, but they were removed before I worked there. They said there are now plans to put a grooming section in that space. It very quickly became obvious why each person was giving such completely different and mostly incorrect advice. There was no training other than how to operate the cash register. That's when I started looking online for help. I joined the 2 "largest" Aquarium groups (at that time), but never got a response to any of my questions. So, I said to myself, "I can do a better job than that." - and that folks is the nutshell (or nut-job, either way) version of how this group got started almost 10 years ago (originally it was Named ~ "Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium" - I wanted a group specific to what I was dealing with as the other 2 "big" groups were more general and I thought maybe that is why I was not getting a reply). Oh yeah, that first Aquarium, it wasn't even mine. My Brother bought a 55g Kit from WallyMart for my Mother as a birthday present when I was living in Tucson AZ. I moved back to California about a month later and it was clear she could not figure out how to take care of it so I said "I can do a better job than that." And I'm proud to say I did, just not right away, or the right way right away either, learning zig-zag remember. So, the point of my story, or at least the point I wanted to make before I got distracted by my story – Welcome to the Group, I am very glad you are here. Thank you for joining and introducing yourself. Hopefully more LFS Employees will be motivated to take a pro-active approach and educate themselves so that they can provide a better public service by giving informed and accurate advice. I have learned a lot by going to several of the Local Fish Clubs & Aquarium Societies, most meet monthly and it is a great way to learn from other people who are passionate about the hobby. Keep us posted, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Monroe <kprdenise@...> wrote: > > Hello, My name is Denise and I am new to the group. I currently work at Petsmart in the Petcare department. I am a retired primate keeper, so fish are relatively new to me. As the store "go to" person for fish advice, I am interested in all topics and look forward to being a part of AquaticLife. > > "I feel more comfortable with gorillas than people. I can anticipate what a gorilla's going to do, and they're purely motivated." Dian Fossey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49277	From: shrlycat	Date: 9/30/2010
Subject: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and

My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49278	From: Ray	Date: 10/1/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group about a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you were not satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made a suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. It's a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49279	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 10/1/2010
Subject: Re: LFS Employees (Unite! I know you're out there)

Aaron, Thanks for the hilarious story!  I must admit that there is very little training in our store, and employees are pretty much thrown out there.  I am fortunate to work with a team that has advanced degrees, or experience, and really care about the animals that we sell.  We want the owners to succeed with their pets, and really try to educate, using our store pet care forms, and our own experience.  This combined with self education has helped us be a better department in my opinion.  Unfortunately, it is not like that in every store, but we can only do our best.  Customers do expect us to be experts, so we try our best, and I look forward to being a part of your group.  Thanks, Denise "I feel more comfortable with gorillas than people. I can anticipate what a gorilla's going to do, and they're purely motivated."    Dian Fossey --- On Wed, 9/29/10, Aaron <aaron102272@...> wrote: From: Aaron <aaron102272@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] LFS Employees (Unite! I know you're out there) To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 3:55 AM   Hello Denise, I too worked at a Big Chain PetC0mpany. (sorry, don't want to say the store name, but it isn't a typ0) I didn't set out looking for a job as I was already busy with my career. However, I was getting a lot of different (i.e. bad) advice from each person at that store. I said out loud to a friend "I can do a better job than that." And not to sound too cocky, I did (shortly thereafter) - despite the obvious that I must not of known much considering I had been asking several of them for advice and help. Lets just say that using a Wet Dry Vac must not have been what they meant when they told me I needed to Vacuum the gravel (about as close as they ever came to giving good advice.) However, they clearly were not on any kind of commission or they could have spared me a lot of grief by selling me a Python No Spill Clean and Fill or even just a Standard Type Gravel Vac or at least showing me what they were actually talking about. So anyway, the guy in the Sears Hardware Department was sorta at a loss for words when I told him I needed a large capacity Wet/Dry so I could clean my fish tank. Disclaimer: (as seen on TV) - Please don't try this at home. (or anywhere else for that matter) I hadn't completely finished turning it on before I instantly realized it was a very bad idea and could not unplug the thing fast enough. It was like the Twilight Zone (nothing to do with vampires) meets David Copperfield - as nearly the entire contents of the aquarium suddenly vanished and simultaneously reappeared, rather violently, all over the ceiling and walls before settling somewhat apprehensively into the carpet. It's been a long slow learning curve (more like a zig-zag actually) and I'm still slowly figuring it out. Sad to say, they have apparently given up completely on the Aquatics Department and have been ripping out rows of aquariums gradually at that same location. The Salt water tanks and half of the remaining Fresh water Section have been boarded up all year. There were, years ago, several more rows, each about 3 tanks high about 3 across back-to-back, maybe as many as 54, but they were removed before I worked there. They said there are now plans to put a grooming section in that space. It very quickly became obvious why each person was giving such completely different and mostly incorrect advice. There was no training other than how to operate the cash register. That's when I started looking online for help. I joined the 2 "largest" Aquarium groups (at that time), but never got a response to any of my questions. So, I said to myself, "I can do a better job than that." - and that folks is the nutshell (or nut-job, either way) version of how this group got started almost 10 years ago (originally it was Named ~ "Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium" - I wanted a group specific to what I was dealing with as the other 2 "big" groups were more general and I thought maybe that is why I was not getting a reply). Oh yeah, that first Aquarium, it wasn't even mine. My Brother bought a 55g Kit from WallyMart for my Mother as a birthday present when I was living in Tucson AZ. I moved back to California about a month later and it was clear she could not figure out how to take care of it so I said "I can do a better job than that." And I'm proud to say I did, just not right away, or the right way right away either, learning zig-zag remember. So, the point of my story, or at least the point I wanted to make before I got distracted by my story – Welcome to the Group, I am very glad you are here. Thank you for joining and introducing yourself. Hopefully more LFS Employees will be motivated to take a pro-active approach and educate themselves so that they can provide a better public service by giving informed and accurate advice. I have learned a lot by going to several of the Local Fish Clubs & Aquarium Societies, most meet monthly and it is a great way to learn from other people who are passionate about the hobby. Keep us posted, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Monroe <kprdenise@...> wrote: > > Hello, My name is Denise and I am new to the group. I currently work at Petsmart in the Petcare department. I am a retired primate keeper, so fish are relatively new to me. As the store "go to" person for fish advice, I am interested in all topics and look forward to being a part of AquaticLife. > > "I feel more comfortable with gorillas than people. I can anticipate what a gorilla's going to do, and they're purely motivated." Dian Fossey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49280	From: shrlycat	Date: 10/1/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

Ray: I'm not sure what you mean about posting to the "other" group. I know it took days for my post to show here and I may have (not sure) posted it to one of the non-Yahoo message boards I belong to. I didn't know it was a practice of this group to post about one's decisions, progress, or non-progress. It isn't an issue of not being satisfied with the suggestions; I haven't had time to research them. I like to do research to get as much info as I can before committing to a pet (of any species). I appreciate your suggestion; sounds good. When I finally decide and get a couple of new ones, I'll post about it. Thanks. Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group about a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you were not satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made a suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. It's a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49281	From: Ray	Date: 10/1/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

Shirley, Okay, in re-checking, I see you did not post this on any other group but instead I must have assumed so because it just wouldn't seem to make any sense to post virtually the exact same question to this group again when you already posted this same question here almost a week ago -- and received numerous answers. Perhaps those answers weren't to your liking though, but then you could have just come out and stated that. I'm sure no one here would mind, and they'd probably even offer you other suggestions. You first posted this question here on September 25 at 4:22 PM (as message # 40259). Then, right after that, our Moderator -- Mike (Deenerz) -- replied back to you with a suuggestion (his message # 49260). Not long after that-- at 4:27 PM (message # 262), Donna Ransome replied back to you with another suggestion. Then, at 5:14PM (message # 49263), Laurie replied with even more suggestions. At 9:30 PM (message # 40264), YOU even replied back! The next day (9/26) at 12:32 PM (message # 49266) our Moderator -- Amber -- replied to you with a suggestion. She also sent you a follow-up message (# 49267) at 12:41 PM. So, you've received a number of suggestions to your post and even replied back. You're certainly welcome to ask the same question again, but it just seemed very odd since you hadn't mentioned your dissatisfaction nor your acknowledgment to most of these responders that they even replied to you or any reply back to them why they're suggestions wouldn't work for you. I don't know when or on which occasion your post took days to show here, abd I regret you had that experience, but even if you also posted to one of the non-Yahoo message boards it would seem best to follow any replies from anywhere, and consider (or at least acknowledge) them as being received. You're welcome to post any message in response to these suggestions if they wouldn't work for you, and perhaps you may even get other suggestions from these same members for you to consider (or research) instead of jumping from one forum to the next without considering the replies -- or instead of coming back asking the same question on the same forum nearly a week later to the same people who already gave you answers -- and who might be waiting to hear back from you concerning their suggestion. It's like we're being left up in the air, only to see you ask the same question again as though you never received the earlier suggestions, or just completely disregarded them without any say so in return. We'll be looking forward to which fish you decide on. In the meantime, happy researching. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > Ray: I'm not sure what you mean about posting to the "other" group. I know it took days for my post to show here and I may have (not sure) posted it to one of the non-Yahoo message boards I belong to. I didn't know it was a practice of this group to post about one's decisions, progress, or non-progress. It isn't an issue of not being satisfied with the suggestions; I haven't had time to research them. I like to do research to get as much info as I can before committing to a pet (of any species). I appreciate your suggestion; sounds good. When I finally decide and get a couple of new ones, I'll post about it. Thanks. > > Shirley > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group about a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you were not satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made a suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. It's a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49282	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

It appears that Yahoo continues to have problems with posting a messages in a timely fashion to its lists. Today, I noticed a couple of messages I had posted to other lists have finally shown up a week after sending them. My wife has seen several in other lists, not from her but from other list members that were sent in the same timeframe as those I had sent. One thing to keep in mind, always, is that e-mail is a "best effort" service, and offers no guarantee of delivery within a timeframe, or, even, delivery at all. That it works as well as it does is one of today's technological miracles. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shrlycat Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and one ple Ray: I'm not sure what you mean about posting to the "other" group. I know it took days for my post to show here and I may have (not sure) posted it to one of the non-Yahoo message boards I belong to. I didn't know it was a practice of this group to post about one's decisions, progress, or non-progress. It isn't an issue of not being satisfied with the suggestions; I haven't had time to research them. I like to do research to get as much info as I can before committing to a pet (of any species). I appreciate your suggestion; sounds good. When I finally decide and get a couple of new ones, I'll post about it. Thanks. Shirley --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group about a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you were not satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made a suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. It's a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49283	From: shrlycat	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

Ray, I can only reiterate what I said in my previous post -- I hadn't decided about which species to get and wanted to research them. Tell me if I'm supposed to keep everyone in this group informed of my actions, progress, or non-progress regarding my initial post. Not posting doesn't mean I don't take suggestions seriously -- it means I haven't decided. Please, Ray, I don't want to antagonize you or anyone here, but if I'm violating any rules for this group, instead of keeping track of when and how many times I've posted, just tell me what I'm supposed to do. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Shirley, Okay, in re-checking, I see you did not post this on any other group but instead I must have assumed so because it just wouldn't seem to make any sense to post virtually the exact same question to this group again when you already posted this same question here almost a week ago -- and received numerous answers. Perhaps those answers weren't to your liking though, but then you could have just come out and stated that. I'm sure no one here would mind, and they'd probably even offer you other suggestions. > > You first posted this question here on September 25 at 4:22 PM (as message # 40259). Then, right after that, our Moderator -- Mike (Deenerz) -- replied back to you with a suuggestion (his message # 49260). Not long after that-- at 4:27 PM (message # 262), Donna Ransome replied back to you with another suggestion. Then, at 5:14PM (message # 49263), Laurie replied with even more suggestions. At 9:30 PM (message # 40264), YOU even replied back! The next day (9/26) at 12:32 PM (message # 49266) our Moderator -- Amber -- replied to you with a suggestion. She also sent you a follow-up message (# 49267) at 12:41 PM. So, you've received a number of suggestions to your post and even replied back. > > You're certainly welcome to ask the same question again, but it just seemed very odd since you hadn't mentioned your dissatisfaction nor your acknowledgment to most of these responders that they even replied to you or any reply back to them why they're suggestions wouldn't work for you. I don't know when or on which occasion your post took days to show here, abd I regret you had that experience, but even if you also posted to one of the non-Yahoo message boards it would seem best to follow any replies from anywhere, and consider (or at least acknowledge) them as being received. > > You're welcome to post any message in response to these suggestions if they wouldn't work for you, and perhaps you may even get other suggestions from these same members for you to consider (or research) instead of jumping from one forum to the next without considering the replies -- or instead of coming back asking the same question on the same forum nearly a week later to the same people who already gave you answers -- and who might be waiting to hear back from you concerning their suggestion. It's like we're being left up in the air, only to see you ask the same question again as though you never received the earlier suggestions, or just completely disregarded them without any say so in return. We'll be looking forward to which fish you decide on. In the meantime, happy researching. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > Ray: I'm not sure what you mean about posting to the "other" group. I know it took days for my post to show here and I may have (not sure) posted it to one of the non-Yahoo message boards I belong to. I didn't know it was a practice of this group to post about one's decisions, progress, or non-progress. It isn't an issue of not being satisfied with the suggestions; I haven't had time to research them. I like to do research to get as much info as I can before committing to a pet (of any species). I appreciate your suggestion; sounds good. When I finally decide and get a couple of new ones, I'll post about it. Thanks. > > > > Shirley > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group about a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you were not satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made a suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. It's a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > > > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49284	From: shrlycat	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

Steve, thank you. I'm glad someone in this group doesn't think I'm rude and disrespectful. Perhaps you can tell me - is it the practice of this group to post updates on one's initial post? Can't quite figure out what Ray thinks I should have done or should be doing. Color me confused. Shirl --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > It appears that Yahoo continues to have problems with posting a messages in > a timely fashion to its lists. Today, I noticed a couple of messages I had > posted to other lists have finally shown up a week after sending them. My > wife has seen several in other lists, not from her but from other list > members that were sent in the same timeframe as those I had sent. > > One thing to keep in mind, always, is that e-mail is a "best effort" > service, and offers no guarantee of delivery within a timeframe, or, even, > delivery at all. That it works as well as it does is one of today's > technological miracles. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of shrlycat > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with > lots of platies and one ple > > Ray: I'm not sure what you mean about posting to the "other" group. I know > it took days for my post to show here and I may have (not sure) posted it to > one of the non-Yahoo message boards I belong to. I didn't know it was a > practice of this group to post about one's decisions, progress, or > non-progress. It isn't an issue of not being satisfied with the suggestions; > I haven't had time to research them. I like to do research to get as much > info as I can before committing to a pet (of any species). I appreciate your > suggestion; sounds good. When I finally decide and get a couple of new ones, > I'll post about it. Thanks. > > Shirley > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group about > a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you were not > satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made a > suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. > Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but > instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even > perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you > don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is > peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. > It's a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my > 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was > very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being > alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there > are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid > helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly > large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not > terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49285	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

I think it was just odd to see the post twice. Maybe it’s part of the problems the Yahoo groups are having. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shrlycat Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 11:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and one ple Ray, I can only reiterate what I said in my previous post -- I hadn't decided about which species to get and wanted to research them. Tell me if I'm supposed to keep everyone in this group informed of my actions, progress, or non-progress regarding my initial post. Not posting doesn't mean I don't take suggestions seriously -- it means I haven't decided. Please, Ray, I don't want to antagonize you or anyone here, but if I'm violating any rules for this group, instead of keeping track of when and how many times I've posted, just tell me what I'm supposed to do. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Shirley, Okay, in re-checking, I see you did not post this on any other group but instead I must have assumed so because it just wouldn't seem to make any sense to post virtually the exact same question to this group again when you already posted this same question here almost a week ago -- and received numerous answers. Perhaps those answers weren't to your liking though, but then you could have just come out and stated that. I'm sure no one here would mind, and they'd probably even offer you other suggestions. > > You first posted this question here on September 25 at 4:22 PM (as message # 40259). Then, right after that, our Moderator -- Mike (Deenerz) -- replied back to you with a suuggestion (his message # 49260). Not long after that-- at 4:27 PM (message # 262), Donna Ransome replied back to you with another suggestion. Then, at 5:14PM (message # 49263), Laurie replied with even more suggestions. At 9:30 PM (message # 40264), YOU even replied back! The next day (9/26) at 12:32 PM (message # 49266) our Moderator -- Amber -- replied to you with a suggestion. She also sent you a follow-up message (# 49267) at 12:41 PM. So, you've received a number of suggestions to your post and even replied back. > > You're certainly welcome to ask the same question again, but it just seemed very odd since you hadn't mentioned your dissatisfaction nor your acknowledgment to most of these responders that they even replied to you or any reply back to them why they're suggestions wouldn't work for you. I don't know when or on which occasion your post took days to show here, abd I regret you had that experience, but even if you also posted to one of the non-Yahoo message boards it would seem best to follow any replies from anywhere, and consider (or at least acknowledge) them as being received. > > You're welcome to post any message in response to these suggestions if they wouldn't work for you, and perhaps you may even get other suggestions from these same members for you to consider (or research) instead of jumping from one forum to the next without considering the replies -- or instead of coming back asking the same question on the same forum nearly a week later to the same people who already gave you answers -- and who might be waiting to hear back from you concerning their suggestion. It's like we're being left up in the air, only to see you ask the same question again as though you never received the earlier suggestions, or just completely disregarded them without any say so in return. We'll be looking forward to which fish you decide on. In the meantime, happy researching. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > Ray: I'm not sure what you mean about posting to the "other" group. I know it took days for my post to show here and I may have (not sure) posted it to one of the non-Yahoo message boards I belong to. I didn't know it was a practice of this group to post about one's decisions, progress, or non-progress. It isn't an issue of not being satisfied with the suggestions; I haven't had time to research them. I like to do research to get as much info as I can before committing to a pet (of any species). I appreciate your suggestion; sounds good. When I finally decide and get a couple of new ones, I'll post about it. Thanks. > > > > Shirley > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group about a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you were not satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made a suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. It's a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > > > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49286	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

Shirley, Seems there is some miscommunication going on. All Ray was trying to do was to make sure you had received the various responses that had been posted to the group. In the past we have had post/responses that never reach the intended recipient or the group as a whole. You are right, you do not need to acknowledge or tell us if you like what suggestions are been provided. However it would let us know if maybe we are on the right track; more suggestions were needed or if what you had was good enough. We certainly understand your wish to research those suggestions; just wanted to make sure we were answering your query. Alex Semper Fi Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry� -----Original Message----- From: "shrlycat" <shrlycat@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 03:07:25 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and one ple Ray, I can only reiterate what I said in my previous post -- I hadn't decided about which species to get and wanted to research them. Tell me if I'm supposed to keep everyone in this group informed of my actions, progress, or non-progress regarding my initial post. Not posting doesn't mean I don't take suggestions seriously -- it means I haven't decided. Please, Ray, I don't want to antagonize you or anyone here, but if I'm violating any rules for this group, instead of keeping track of when and how many times I've posted, just tell me what I'm supposed to do. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Shirley, Okay, in re-checking, I see you did not post this on any other group but instead I must have assumed so because it just wouldn't seem to make any sense to post virtually the exact same question to this group again when you already posted this same question here almost a week ago -- and received numerous answers. Perhaps those answers weren't to your liking though, but then you could have just come out and stated that. I'm sure no one here would mind, and they'd probably even offer you other suggestions. > > You first posted this question here on September 25 at 4:22 PM (as message # 40259). Then, right after that, our Moderator -- Mike (Deenerz) -- replied back to you with a suuggestion (his message # 49260). Not long after that-- at 4:27 PM (message # 262), Donna Ransome replied back to you with another suggestion. Then, at 5:14PM (message # 49263), Laurie replied with even more suggestions. At 9:30 PM (message # 40264), YOU even replied back! The next day (9/26) at 12:32 PM (message # 49266) our Moderator -- Amber -- replied to you with a suggestion. She also sent you a follow-up message (# 49267) at 12:41 PM. So, you've received a number of suggestions to your post and even replied back. > > You're certainly welcome to ask the same question again, but it just seemed very odd since you hadn't mentioned your dissatisfaction nor your acknowledgment to most of these responders that they even replied to you or any reply back to them why they're suggestions wouldn't work for you. I don't know when or on which occasion your post took days to show here, abd I regret you had that experience, but even if you also posted to one of the non-Yahoo message boards it would seem best to follow any replies from anywhere, and consider (or at least acknowledge) them as being received. > > You're welcome to post any message in response to these suggestions if they wouldn't work for you, and perhaps you may even get other suggestions from these same members for you to consider (or research) instead of jumping from one forum to the next without considering the replies -- or instead of coming back asking the same question on the same forum nearly a week later to the same people who already gave you answers -- and who might be waiting to hear back from you concerning their suggestion. It's like we're being left up in the air, only to see you ask the same question again as though you never received the earlier suggestions, or just completely disregarded them without any say so in return. We'll be looking forward to which fish you decide on. In the meantime, happy researching. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > Ray: I'm not sure what you mean about posting to the "other" group. I know it took days for my post to show here and I may have (not sure) posted it to one of the non-Yahoo message boards I belong to. I didn't know it was a practice of this group to post about one's decisions, progress, or non-progress. It isn't an issue of not being satisfied with the suggestions; I haven't had time to research them. I like to do research to get as much info as I can before committing to a pet (of any species). I appreciate your suggestion; sounds good. When I finally decide and get a couple of new ones, I'll post about it. Thanks. > > > > Shirley > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group about a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you were not satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made a suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. It's a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > > > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49287	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

I think what got ray a bit upset is that here you are back again with the same question that you had asked a while back. Frankly it struck me a curious also. But normally one would offer at least a brief acknowledgement of the messages received in replies, whether it is singly or in general. I t may have been a nice gesture to say "Thanks guys. I'm off to research these suggestions to see which best suits me.", or something along those lines. Then, at sometime in the future you could, if you wish, come back with something like, "Some time ago I asked about getting a fish to replace the convict that had passed in my 40 gallon tank. The chiclet fish that someone here had mentioned has filled the bill admirably. . . . .", and so on and so forth. People do like to be recognized for their efforts, even if it is obliquely. Now, as for your replacement fish, I've recently seen a number of Central/South American cichlids mentioned in the literature I've been perusing that may be good replacements for you. So, while you are doing your research, hopefully using reliable sources, you may want to take a look at fish in those groups. Some of them are very colorful when compared to a convict. Please do forgive me for not going to look them up for you, but I have a number of things to get through today, including some outdoor work I've been putting off (and I am hoping the rain starts before I get outside today <g>. I've been slaughtered with e-mail this week, and I am just about caught up. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of shrlycat Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 11:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies and one ple Steve, thank you. I'm glad someone in this group doesn't think I'm rude and disrespectful. Perhaps you can tell me - is it the practice of this group to post updates on one's initial post? Can't quite figure out what Ray thinks I should have done or should be doing. Color me confused. Shirl --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > It appears that Yahoo continues to have problems with posting a messages in > a timely fashion to its lists. Today, I noticed a couple of messages I had > posted to other lists have finally shown up a week after sending them. My > wife has seen several in other lists, not from her but from other list > members that were sent in the same timeframe as those I had sent. > > One thing to keep in mind, always, is that e-mail is a "best effort" > service, and offers no guarantee of delivery within a timeframe, or, even, > delivery at all. That it works as well as it does is one of today's > technological miracles. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of shrlycat > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with > lots of platies and one ple > > Ray: I'm not sure what you mean about posting to the "other" group. I know > it took days for my post to show here and I may have (not sure) posted it to > one of the non-Yahoo message boards I belong to. I didn't know it was a > practice of this group to post about one's decisions, progress, or > non-progress. It isn't an issue of not being satisfied with the suggestions; > I haven't had time to research them. I like to do research to get as much > info as I can before committing to a pet (of any species). I appreciate your > suggestion; sounds good. When I finally decide and get a couple of new ones, > I'll post about it. Thanks. > > Shirley > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group about > a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you were not > satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made a > suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. > Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but > instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even > perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you > don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is > peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. > It's a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my > 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was > very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being > alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there > are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid > helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly > large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not > terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49288	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/3/2010
Subject: Thieves Steal Fish From Waikiki Aquarium

http://www.kitv.com/news/25198919/detail.html Thieves Steal Fish From Waikiki Aquarium Popular Moi Taken From Outdoor Tank POSTED: 11:44 am HST September 28, 2010 UPDATED: 9:21 pm HST September 28, 2010 HONOLULU -- Thieves stole 15 moi from a fish tank at the Waikiki Aquarium over the weekend, aquarium officials said. The thieves broke into the aquarium after closing and took 15 of 21 fish in the outdoor circular tank sometime between Friday night and Saturday morning, officials said. The thieves appeared to have jumped over a chain-link fence, cut a hole in the tank's netting and scooped out the fish with their own net, Waikiki Aquarium officials said. "It looks like they threw the moi out, they lay on the ground there and they put them in the bag," Waikiki Aquarium Director Andrew Rossiter said. "There were scales and blood there. There were two dead moi left there in the morning that they missed." Workers found two dead moi on the ground. The Pacific threadfin is found only in Hawaiian waters and was considered a fish for royalty, the aquarium said. Waikiki Aquarium officials estimated the loss at $1,500. Rossiter said Anuenue Fisheries donated 21 moi to the aquarium a few years ago. They were once used for breeding. For that reason, Rossiter said he would not recommend eating the fish. He said they were never meant for human consumption. "I would guess that they've been treated probably with hormones and probably with medication because they're adult fish and they were for breeding," he said. The fish were also tagged. Rossiter hopes fish vendors will be on the lookout and avoid purchasing the stolen moi. "There should be a warning to not buy any suspect foods that come from unauthorized sources, for sure," Rossiter said. The Waikiki Aquarium asked that anyone with information about the theft call the Honolulu Police Department. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49289	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/3/2010
Subject: Re: Recommend a fish for a 40-gallon freshwater with lots of platies

She posted to this group Ray, I was one of the people who responded to her. I was wondering why she never answered anyone's posts. Amber On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:40 PM, shrlycat <shrlycat@...> wrote: > > > Ray: I'm not sure what you mean about posting to the "other" group. I know > it took days for my post to show here and I may have (not sure) posted it to > one of the non-Yahoo message boards I belong to. I didn't know it was a > practice of this group to post about one's decisions, progress, or > non-progress. It isn't an issue of not being satisfied with the suggestions; > I haven't had time to research them. I like to do research to get as much > info as I can before committing to a pet (of any species). I appreciate your > suggestion; sounds good. When I finally decide and get a couple of new ones, > I'll post about it. Thanks. > > Shirley > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ray" > <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I noticed you posted the same identical message to the "other" Group > about a week ago or so, and noticed a number of replies. Apparently, you > were not satisfied with those suggestions, which is fine. I would have made > a suggestion then, but I thought you might have taken one already offered. > Now, as you hadn't asked about recommending a fairly large Cichlid, but > instead a "large fish," I'm assuming you're open to any suggestions -- even > perhaps not necessarily another Cichlid to replace that one. I note you > don't want anything too large, so I'd suggest a Pearl Gourami -- which is > peaceful and which will take care of any possible Platy overpopulation. It's > a very attractive fish too, and doesn't need to be kept in schools. Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > "shrlycat" <shrlycat@> wrote: > > > > > > My 6-year-old cichlid convict died today. He was the only cichlid in my > 40-gallon freshwater tank, along with a bunch of platies and one plec. I was > very attached to him and sad about his death. (I've wondered if his being > alone (no other males or female mate)contributed to his death.) So now there > are only a bunch of platies and one, fully grown plec. I figure the cichlid > helped in keeping the platy population in check. Can you recommend a fairly > large fish (well, larger than a platy) that will do well by itself, and not > terrorize the platies and plec, and might help reduce the platy population. > > > > > > > > -- Do not regret the things you've done, but those you did not do. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49290	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/4/2010
Subject: FW: 4th Annual WWKC Virtual Koi & Goldfish Show

\\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:26 PM To: Subject: 4th Annual WWKC Virtual Koi & Goldfish Show The WWKC and Koiphen are pleased to be hosting the 4th Annual WWKC Virtual Koi & Goldfish Show. Entries into this years show must be entered at our site http://www.wwkcinternetkoishow.com/ on or before 11:59PM EST on October 6th. We hope that you will help us to make this a real success by entering and participating in all of the activities that are planned. Thank you, The WWKC Events Committee

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49291	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: NEC News and Events

NEC News and Events NEC Convention March 25-27, 2011 The 36th Annual NEC Convention will be held the last weekend in March 2011 at the Crowne Plaza Hotel in Cromwell, CT. We look forward to presenting another memorable event for NEC members and all fish-keepers to attend! Mark your calendars and we hope to see you at one of the top fish conventions in the country. Please watch the NEC Newsletter and www.northeastcouncil.org/convention for updates. ANNUAL CONVENTION LOGO CONTEST This year's theme, "100 Years of Advances in the Hobby". Create a fishy design for the convention that incorporates this year's theme. Artist must be a member of an NEC club; Entry must be original artwork. (Never used before); Entry must be submitted by the artist. Please send a non-signed copy. Your signature can be added after the voting; Please submit a color version. Four color maximum please. Black outlining also counts as one color. Please avoid shading as it will not reproduce as you intend it to on the T-shirts. The winning logo will appear on the Website, the cover of the Annual Convention Program, the Registration Flier, and Convention T-shirts. Part or all of the logo may be used on the registration button and it may be modified to fit the button. The winner will receive a free registration for the 36th Annual Convention, a free convention T-shirt and a free banquet ticket (all nontransferable). The deadline is 11:59pm November 25, 2010. All entries must be received via email by Doug Patac, dpatac@..., by this date/time and the subject of the email must be "NEC Logo Entry." You will receive a reply stating that your entry was received - if you do not receive a reply, it is your responsibility to send the email again and call 802 753-7269 within the next 24 hours to ensure it was received. Late entries can NOT be accepted. Please email dbanks@... or call with questions (802) 372-8716. See your club's NEC Delegate for more info! Good Luck!! \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49292	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: North Jersey Aquarium Society Aquatic Weekend 2010

North Jersey Aquarium Society Aquatic Weekend 2010 Friday, Saturday, Sunday October 15-17, 2010 Lyndhurst Elks Club, 251 Park Avenue, Lyndhurst, NJ 07071 Show setup Friday 6 pm-9 pm Show Judging & Viewing Saturday 9 am-8 pm Auction Registration Sunday 9 am Auction Starts @ noon until all items auctioned For more information visit www.njas.net or call our hotline 732-541-1392 or Kevin Carr 201-724-9460 This year NJAS is hosting the Philadelphia Area Betta Society's (PABS) 12th IBC International Show, October 15 & 16 Show setup Friday 9 am Show Judging & Viewing on Saturday Auction on Saturday @ 6 pm For additional information on Betta Show, contact Clayton Crawford 908-674-0557 or email claycrawford56@... \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49293	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Danbury Area Aquarium Society 25th Auction Fall 2010

Danbury Area Aquarium Society 25th AUCTION Fall 2010! Sunday, October 24, 2010 FISH, AQUARIUM EQUIPMENT, RELATED DRY GOODS To be held at: Carmel Firehouse 94 Gleneida Avenue (corner of Route 52 & Vick Drive) Carmel, NY 10512 Food & Refreshments will be available Auction Hours: Registration 8:30 am to 11:!5 am Viewing of Goods 10:00 am to 11:!5 am Auction 11:30 am to 5 pm Raffle 50/50 For additional Information , please call: Rich Litsky (845) 228-0372 Joe Masi (845) 896-4793 Email: daas@... \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49294	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Boston Aquarium Society Annual Auction

Boston Aquarium Society ANNUAL AUCTION Sunday October 31, 2010 Knights of Columbus Hall, 11 Sanborn Street, Reading, MA 01867 Item Registration begins at 10:30 am Bidding starts at 12:00 noon 60/40 split in favor of vendor Maximum 15 lots per person Save time! Get your Vendor Registration Form online! For a link to directions via Google Maps Visit www.bostonaquariumsociety.org Public transportation: Knights of Columbus Hall is located near the MBTA Commuter Rail Rare Fish, Aquatic Plants, Equipment Everyone is Welcome! Free Admission! \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49295	From: mae746	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Cuban tree frog

Hi! I am looking for a home for a Cuban tree frog. I found him in my front yard. He's been inside now for about a month and has been doing well. He's been eating tons of crickets (I can't even keep count anymore!) but I'm just not a frog person. I don't have the heart to kill him though, and because he's so bad for our ecosystem, he can't live outside either. If you can help, please contact me! Thanks :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49296	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Considering a new canister filter for purchase

Has anyone out there purchased a UTC 3200 Canister filter (with or without the UV sterilizer)? The filter is made by Via Aqua. Here is a link: http://www.amazon.com/UTC-3200-Canister-Filter-Sterilizer/dp/B001XRQZVW I'm considering the model that doesn't have UV, but I figure they're both going to have the same features otherwise. Anyone have any thoughts about this filter? I like my Rena XP4s but the replacement canisters are nearly as much as a whole new filter and that's just ridiculous! Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49297	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2010
Subject: Aquarium Test Kits Article

I got this page from one of my Google Alerts. It is found on a really strange site for such an article, and is sandwiched between "How to Prevent Metabolic Syndrome," and "Cool Fasting Blood Test Images." I would have left some comments about the article, if I could have, but it said that comments were closed, which, since there were no comments, means that comments are not permitted. That being the case, I'll be more generous, and allow others to comment on this article here and see if others picked up on what I saw and considered to be worthy of comment or in desperate need of correction. The link to the article is http://lower-my-cholesterol.net/56041/aquarium-test-kits-what-they-are-used-for-and-the-order-of-importance-for-water-parameters-in-freshwater-and-saltwater-aquariums/ http://tinyurl.com/232tpd7 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49298	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2010
Subject: New study into fish schooling behaviour

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3247&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_8_2010&utm_term=New_study_into_fish_schooling_behaviour&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/24znvdm New study into fish schooling behaviour Copyright (c) Thinkstock What is the ideal shape to assume for a school of fish? This was the question that Andrew Brierley and Martin Cox of the University of St Andrews tried to answer in their study, which is to be published in a forthcoming issue of the journal Current Biology. The authors used multibeam sonar to examine the three-dimensional sizes and shapes of more than 1000 schools of Antarctic krill (Euphausia superba), as well as more than 900 schools of five different species of sardines and anchovies worldwide. They found that the ideal shape of the schools of krill and clupeid fishes were largely identical - in the form of an irregular crystal (a shape the authors described as a 'multifaceted lozenge'). The assumption of a common shape for schooling organisms living in habitats as diverse as the polar seas and the tropics suggested that a set of identical factors were involved. The authors found that the schools always maintained a fixed surface area:volume ratio. Using a series of computer models, the authors calculated that the optimal shape and packing density of the school is determined largely by a model in which the individuals in the school juggle for access to oxygen-rich water and the exposure to predation. Each individual is safest in the centre of the school and at the highest risk of predation at the edges of the school. However, the water in the centre of the school is poorest in oxygen, while that at the edge of the school is richest. The shape of the school observed provides individual members of the school with an optimal trade-off between predator avoidance and oxygen acquisition. For more information, see the paper: Brierley, AS and MJ Cox (2010) Shapes of krill swarms and fish schools emerge as aggregation members avoid predators and access oxygen. Current Biology doi:10.1016/j.cub.2010.08.041 Published: Dr Heok Hee Ng Sunday 3 October 2010, 11:15 am \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49299	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/9/2010
Subject: African butterflyfish hides genetic surprise

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3253&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_8_2010&utm_term=African_butterflyfish_hides_genetic_surprise&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2fqjhu4 African butterflyfish hides genetic surprise Copyright (c) Toniher, Creative Commons A team of scientists have discovered that African butterflyfish, (Pantodon buchholzi) from the two wild populations may look the same, but genetically they differ more than Chimpanzees and humans. The scientists, including the Natural History Museum's Sebastien Lavoue, found huge differences of up to 15% in the mitochondrial genome between fish from the Congo and Niger populations. Typically mitochondrial genome differences between specimens of one species are between 2% and 3%. A difference of 15% is what you might expect to find within an entire family of fish species. It was particularly unexpected as there had been no reports of morphological variation since the species was first described to science in 1876. Using the latest techniques to estimate when this genetic divergence began the team discovered that the separation of the two groups had occurred over 57 million years ago, yet despite this huge span of time and major climatic changes to the fish's habitat, the physical features of the butterflyfish had remained unchanged. This means the fish could be considered 'living fossils', a term used for species that have remained unchanged for millions of years. Other examples of this include coelacanths and lampreys. Lavoue hopes to further study the fish to discover just why they have stayed the way they have for so long. The two populations are now so different genetically that they may no longer be able to breed with one another, which could mean they are now in fact two cryptic species. To ascertain this, further study of their differences behaviourally and genetically is required. The African butterflyfish is a popular 'oddball' addition to many aquariums. In the wild it lives in the calm waters of rainforest rivers, creeks and swamps. Growing to around 15cm/6", it swims just below the surface where it feeds on insects, small invertebrates and fish. Published: Bob Mehen Wednesday 6 October 2010, 2:56 pm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49300	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/10/2010
Subject: New species of pike cichlid described

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3244&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_8_2010&utm_term=New_species_of_pike_cichlid_described&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/27ehqfx New species of pike cichlid described Copyright © Neotropical Ichthyology, Creative Commons Scientists from Argentina and the Czech Republic have described a new species of pike cichlid from the Paraná River drainage in Argentina. Jorge Casciotta and coauthors name the new cichlid Crenicichla ypo after the Mbya Guaraní word that means “water dweller” in the most recent issue of the journal Neotropical Ichthyology. The new species is easily recognisable by the presence of 6–8 irregular blotches along the upper lateral line, the absence of scattered dark spots on flanks, the low number (47-55) of E1 scales, and a slightly protruding lower jaw. Females have a distinctive coloration of the dorsal fin, with a wide black longitudinal stripe on the edge with an equally wide red stripe below it. The fish was caught in a moderately fast-flowing habitat with aquatic macrophytes and a substrate of mud, sand or rock. For more information, see the paper: Casciotta, J, A Almirón, L Piálek, S Gómez and O Říčan (2010) Crenicichla ypo (Teleostei: Cichlidae), a new species from the middle Paraná basin in Misiones, Argentina. Neotropical Ichthyology 8, pp. 643–648. Published: Dr Heok Hee Ng Sunday 3 October 2010, 10:35 am \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49301	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/10/2010
Subject: New Cichlid Tank Coming Together

Thought I'd share in case we have any other African Rift cichlid-keeper-members. 75G all-male planted tank. Set up to happen in next week or two. Here is the initial stocklist: Neritina reclivata 'Olive Nerite' Astatotilapia latifasciata Lake Kyoga 'Zebra' Protomelas marginatus 'Turquoise' Tramitichromis Intermedius Placidochromis electra Likoma 'Deep Water' Copadichromis chrysonotus Mumbo 'White Blaze' Copadichromis trewavasae Likoma 'Ivoryhead Mloto' Aulonocara Stuartgranti (Flametail Mdoka) Aulonocara Stuartgranti Maleri Altolamprologus calvus Kapampa 'Ink Fin' Neolamprologus Tretocephalus Neolamprologus Leleupi (breeding group of 6) Caeruleus labidochromis (breeding group of 6) Plants will include java fern rooted on the in-tank 3D background, as well as Echinodorus Red Rubin, Bacopa monnieri, Vallisneria contortionist and some others to be determined. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49302	From: Neal Robbins	Date: 10/10/2010
Subject: Link to Dinosaur Group

This is the link to the new dinosaur group that I formed. Anyone in AquaticLife or FossilFish is welcome to join it. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dinosaurs-and-Other-Mesozoic-Creatures/     Neal Robbins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49303	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Bettas in the Poconos?

Hello fellow fish-friends. My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while. I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta. I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad. Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage. And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. But I digress... Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49304	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?

Hi Kai!   Nice to hear from you.  If all else fails, may I suggest Aqua Bid?   In shopping you've probably noticed, if they look bad in one store, they look bad in all 5 of them.  Why?   They all use the same supplier?  Could be!  Better to try something off the radar, namely a trip to Allentown or Philly.  In order to make an upcoming purchase easier on both you and the fish may I also recommend the use of a 5-gallon bucket with a good tight fitting lid.  Take as much water as you can carry home from the store, it makes it easier on both the fish and you and the extra amount of water gives you a bit of grace with the travel time.   Bill --- On Mon, 10/11/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Bettas in the Poconos? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 11, 2010, 12:51 PM Hello fellow fish-friends. My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while.  I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta.  I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad.  Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage.  And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. But I digress... Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? ~Kai ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49305	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?

Hi Bill! Thanks for your reply. Aqua Bid has tempted me in the past but the $25-35 shipping always puts me off. I'd rather find a local breeder and put that $$ toward a better fish than pay for delivery. Ya know what I mean? I don't need or want a "show quality" fish -- but I'm very disappointed at the poor quality of fish that are available locally. It's like they bred all the runts instead of keeping the better fry for themselves as breeding stock. It makes no sense to me. With all the knowledge about Betta genetics, you'd think the overall quality of commercially available fish would be IMPROVING. If anything, it's getting worse. ONE of my local shops uses a "different" supplier -- probably a local breeder. They have half a dozen halfway decent royal blue veiltails right now -- obviously brothers. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict when they'll get GOOD fish there. It's usually shortly after I've bought a fish that I've "settled" for either there or elsewhere. Philly is way too far for me but Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton or Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are places that I don't mind going -- especially if I can combine the trip with other errands. In fact, I'll be in the Allentown/Bethlehem area on the 15th. Speak up now if anyone knows someone who might have a Betta for me. :o) I prefer a crowntail but I'm open-minded -- especially if it's something "unusual." Sweet and Sour keeps looking at the empty tank next to him. I think he's sad too. ~Kai > Bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Kai! >   > Nice to hear from you.  If all else fails, may I suggest Aqua Bid? >   > In shopping you've probably noticed, if they look bad in one store, they look bad in all 5 of them.  Why? >   > They all use the same supplier?  Could be!  Better to try something off the radar, namely a trip to Allentown or Philly.  In order to make an upcoming purchase easier on both you and the fish may I also recommend the use of a 5-gallon bucket with a good tight fitting lid.  Take as much water as you can carry home from the store, it makes it easier on both the fish and you and the extra amount of water gives you a bit of grace with the travel time. >   > Bill > > Kai wrote: > > Hello fellow fish-friends. > > My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while.  I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. > > Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta.  I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad.  Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage.  And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. > > But I digress... > Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49306	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?

I cannot find the Philadelphia Area Betta Society sites any longer, so I do not know what kind of shape they are in. Bucks County AS is another place you can check at the club there if it is within driving range. This would be assuming my geography is decent and you are actually in NE PA. You could always check out Aquabid. If you happen to be a member of the IBC, they offer a buy/sell option as well as all kinds of other stuff related to bettas. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Bettas in the Poconos? Hello fellow fish-friends. My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while. I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta. I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad. Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage. And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. But I digress... Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49307	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?

Kai, I do know somebody in that part of the state that just happens to be into fish. Let me e-mail him and see if he knows anyone into bettas in that area. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 2:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bettas in the Poconos? Hi Bill! Thanks for your reply. Aqua Bid has tempted me in the past but the $25-35 shipping always puts me off. I'd rather find a local breeder and put that $$ toward a better fish than pay for delivery. Ya know what I mean? I don't need or want a "show quality" fish -- but I'm very disappointed at the poor quality of fish that are available locally. It's like they bred all the runts instead of keeping the better fry for themselves as breeding stock. It makes no sense to me. With all the knowledge about Betta genetics, you'd think the overall quality of commercially available fish would be IMPROVING. If anything, it's getting worse. ONE of my local shops uses a "different" supplier -- probably a local breeder. They have half a dozen halfway decent royal blue veiltails right now -- obviously brothers. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict when they'll get GOOD fish there. It's usually shortly after I've bought a fish that I've "settled" for either there or elsewhere. Philly is way too far for me but Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton or Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are places that I don't mind going -- especially if I can combine the trip with other errands. In fact, I'll be in the Allentown/Bethlehem area on the 15th. Speak up now if anyone knows someone who might have a Betta for me. :o) I prefer a crowntail but I'm open-minded -- especially if it's something "unusual." Sweet and Sour keeps looking at the empty tank next to him. I think he's sad too. ~Kai > Bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Kai! >   > Nice to hear from you.  If all else fails, may I suggest Aqua Bid? >   > In shopping you've probably noticed, if they look bad in one store, they look bad in all 5 of them.  Why? >   > They all use the same supplier?  Could be!  Better to try something off the radar, namely a trip to Allentown or Philly.  In order to make an upcoming purchase easier on both you and the fish may I also recommend the use of a 5-gallon bucket with a good tight fitting lid.  Take as much water as you can carry home from the store, it makes it easier on both the fish and you and the extra amount of water gives you a bit of grace with the travel time. >   > Bill > > Kai wrote: > > Hello fellow fish-friends. > > My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while.  I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. > > Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta.  I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad.  Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage.  And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. > > But I digress... > Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49308	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?

I understand what you're saying Kai but sometimes you can run into a private breeder who is willing to both sell and share on Aqua Bid!  I met a very nice couple from New York when trying to work with German Blue Rams last year.   Many times these type of sellers are just as interested in selling their fish as they are to provide good homes and care of their animals and want other hobbyist to succeed as much or as well as they have done.  As for postage? There was none!  It turns out they would run part of the Interstate down toward customers in Allentown and Philly areas.  I would met them at the juction and swap the fish there.  It never hurts to check.  Remember, they don't know you need the fish until you tell them!   If Betta's are you're thing I would highly suggest some detective work on you're part to try and locate some Betta Clubs in you're area or at the very least a fish club. People in these clubs are always willing to help.  If they don't have exactly what you need, chances are they just might know someone who does.   Bill --- On Mon, 10/11/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bettas in the Poconos? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 11, 2010, 2:45 PM Hi Bill!  Thanks for your reply. Aqua Bid has tempted me in the past but the $25-35 shipping always puts me off.  I'd rather find a local breeder and put that $$ toward a better fish than pay for delivery.  Ya know what I mean? I don't need or want a "show quality" fish -- but I'm very disappointed at the poor quality of fish that are available locally.  It's like they bred all the runts instead of keeping the better fry for themselves as breeding stock.  It makes no sense to me.  With all the knowledge about Betta genetics, you'd think the overall quality of commercially available fish would be IMPROVING.  If anything, it's getting worse. ONE of my local shops uses a "different" supplier -- probably a local breeder.  They have half a dozen halfway decent royal blue veiltails right now -- obviously brothers. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict when they'll get GOOD fish there.  It's usually shortly after I've bought a fish that I've "settled" for either there or elsewhere. Philly is way too far for me but Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton or Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are places that I don't mind going -- especially if I can combine the trip with other errands. In fact, I'll be in the Allentown/Bethlehem area on the 15th.  Speak up now if anyone knows someone who might have a Betta for me.  :o)  I prefer a crowntail but I'm open-minded -- especially if it's something "unusual." Sweet and Sour keeps looking at the empty tank next to him.  I think he's sad too. ~Kai > Bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Kai! >   > Nice to hear from you.  If all else fails, may I suggest Aqua Bid? >   > In shopping you've probably noticed, if they look bad in one store, they look bad in all 5 of them.  Why? >   > They all use the same supplier?  Could be!  Better to try something off the radar, namely a trip to Allentown or Philly.  In order to make an upcoming purchase easier on both you and the fish may I also recommend the use of a 5-gallon bucket with a good tight fitting lid.  Take as much water as you can carry home from the store, it makes it easier on both the fish and you and the extra amount of water gives you a bit of grace with the travel time. >   > Bill > > Kai wrote: > > Hello fellow fish-friends. > > My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while.  I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. > > Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta.  I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad.  Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage.  And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. > > But I digress... > Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? > ~Kai > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49309	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?

Well, that's why I asked here... hoping someone knows someone who knows someone else who lives near me. I'm not a breeder. I/we just keep 3 at a time as beautiful pets. I have two tanks up here on my computer desk and another downstairs on Mom's kitchen table. It seem that people sell either near-show quality fish or pet shop stock with badly managed genetics. I'd be happy with something in between. (Where are THOSE fish???) As I said, I'm partial to crowntails but I'm open minded -- especially if it's something "unusual." :o) ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > I understand what you're saying Kai but sometimes you can run into a private breeder who is willing to both sell and share on Aqua Bid!  I met a very nice couple from New York when trying to work with German Blue Rams last year. >   > Many times these type of sellers are just as interested in selling their fish as they are to provide good homes and care of their animals and want other hobbyist to succeed as much or as well as they have done.  As for postage? There was none!  It turns out they would run part of the Interstate down toward customers in Allentown and Philly areas.  I would met them at the junction and swap the fish there.  It never hurts to check.  Remember, they don't know you need the fish until you tell them! >   > If Betta's are you're thing I would highly suggest some detective work on you're part to try and locate some Betta Clubs in you're area or at the very least a fish club. People in these clubs are always willing to help.  If they don't have exactly what you need, chances are they just might know someone who does. >   > Bill > > > Kai wrote: > > Hi Bill!  Thanks for your reply. > > Aqua Bid has tempted me in the past but the $25-35 shipping always puts me off.  I'd rather find a local breeder and put that $$ toward a better fish than pay for delivery.  Ya know what I mean? > > I don't need or want a "show quality" fish -- but I'm very disappointed at the poor quality of fish that are available locally.  It's like they bred all the runts instead of keeping the better fry for themselves as breeding stock.  It makes no sense to me.  With all the knowledge about Betta genetics, you'd think the overall quality of commercially available fish would be IMPROVING.  If anything, it's getting worse. > > ONE of my local shops uses a "different" supplier -- probably a local breeder.  They have half a dozen halfway decent royal blue veiltails right now -- obviously brothers. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict when they'll get GOOD fish there.  It's usually shortly after I've bought a fish that I've "settled" for either there or elsewhere. > > Philly is way too far for me but Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton or Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are places that I don't mind going -- especially if I can combine the trip with other errands. > > In fact, I'll be in the Allentown/Bethlehem area on the 15th.  Speak up now if anyone knows someone who might have a Betta for me.  :o)  I prefer a crowntail but I'm open-minded -- especially if it's something "unusual." > > Sweet and Sour keeps looking at the empty tank next to him.  I think he's sad too. > ~Kai > > > > > Bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Kai! > >   > > Nice to hear from you.  If all else fails, may I suggest Aqua Bid? > >   > > In shopping you've probably noticed, if they look bad in one store, they look bad in all 5 of them.  Why? > >   > > They all use the same supplier?  Could be!  Better to try something off the radar, namely a trip to Allentown or Philly.  In order to make an upcoming purchase easier on both you and the fish may I also recommend the use of a 5-gallon bucket with a good tight fitting lid.  Take as much water as you can carry home from the store, it makes it easier on both the fish and you and the extra amount of water gives you a bit of grace with the travel time. > >   > > Bill > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Hello fellow fish-friends. > > > > My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while.  I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. > > > > Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta.  I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad.  Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage.  And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. > > > > But I digress... > > Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49310	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?

Thanks, Steve! I've got my fingers crossed for good news. As I just told Bill, I'm just a Betta enthusiast, not a breeder. And have read up enough about them to appreciate "better" fish than those I've found at my local pet shops. They're all large chains and don't know if they share distributors but wow, those are some SCRAGGLY specimens! =8oO ~Kai > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > Kai, > > I do know somebody in that part of the state that just happens to be into fish. Let me e-mail him and see if he knows anyone into bettas in that area. > > \\Steve// > > > Kai wrote: > > Hi Bill! Thanks for your reply. > > Aqua Bid has tempted me in the past but the $25-35 shipping always puts me > off. I'd rather find a local breeder and put that $$ toward a better fish > than pay for delivery. Ya know what I mean? > > I don't need or want a "show quality" fish -- but I'm very disappointed at the poor quality of fish that are available locally. It's like they bred all the runts instead of keeping the better fry for themselves as breeding stock. It makes no sense to me. With all the knowledge about Betta genetics, you'd think the overall quality of commercially available fish would be IMPROVING. If anything, it's getting worse. > > ONE of my local shops uses a "different" supplier -- probably a local breeder. They have half a dozen halfway decent royal blue veiltails right now -- obviously brothers. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict when they'll get GOOD fish there. It's usually shortly after I've bought a fish that I've "settled" for either there or elsewhere. > > Philly is way too far for me but Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton or Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are places that I don't mind going -- especially if I can combine the trip with other errands. > > In fact, I'll be in the Allentown/Bethlehem area on the 15th. Speak up now if anyone knows someone who might have a Betta for me. :o) I prefer a crowntail but I'm open-minded -- especially if it's something "unusual." > > Sweet and Sour keeps looking at the empty tank next to him. I think he's sad too. > ~Kai > > > > > Bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Kai! > >   > > Nice to hear from you.  If all else fails, may I suggest Aqua Bid? > >   > > In shopping you've probably noticed, if they look bad in one store, they look bad in all 5 of them.  Why? > >   > > They all use the same supplier?  Could be!  Better to try something off the radar, namely a trip to Allentown or Philly.  In order to make an upcoming purchase easier on both you and the fish may I also recommend the use of a 5-gallon bucket with a good tight fitting lid.  Take as much water as you can carry home from the store, it makes it easier on both the fish and you and the extra amount of water gives you a bit of grace with the travel time. > >   > > Bill > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Hello fellow fish-friends. > > > > My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while.  I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. > > > > Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta.  I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad.  Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage.  And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. > > > > But I digress... > > Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? > > ~Kai > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49311	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/11/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?

You have raised one interesting point Kai.  Since joining here I have often wondered myself?  How many people on this list are from Pennsylvania?  Anyone care to check in?   I just checked on group, we currently have 2480 members.  Not counting Kai and I, there has to be more than two of us from PA?   Bill --- On Mon, 10/11/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bettas in the Poconos? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 11, 2010, 8:37 PM Well, that's why I asked here... hoping someone knows someone who knows someone else who lives near me. I'm not a breeder.  I/we just keep 3 at a time as beautiful pets.  I have two tanks up here on my computer desk and another downstairs on Mom's kitchen table. It seem that people sell either near-show quality fish or pet shop stock with badly managed genetics.  I'd be happy with something in between.  (Where are THOSE fish???) As I said, I'm partial to crowntails but I'm open minded -- especially if it's something "unusual."  :o) ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > I understand what you're saying Kai but sometimes you can run into a private breeder who is willing to both sell and share on Aqua Bid!  I met a very nice couple from New York when trying to work with German Blue Rams last year. >   > Many times these type of sellers are just as interested in selling their fish as they are to provide good homes and care of their animals and want other hobbyist to succeed as much or as well as they have done.  As for postage?  There was none!  It turns out they would run part of the Interstate down toward customers in Allentown and Philly areas.  I would met them at the junction and swap the fish there.  It never hurts to check.  Remember, they don't know you need the fish until you tell them! >   > If Betta's are you're thing I would highly suggest some detective work on you're part to try and locate some Betta Clubs in you're area or at the very least a fish club.  People in these clubs are always willing to help.  If they don't have exactly what you need, chances are they just might know someone who does. >   > Bill > > > Kai wrote: > > Hi Bill!  Thanks for your reply. > > Aqua Bid has tempted me in the past but the $25-35 shipping always puts me off.  I'd rather find a local breeder and put that $$ toward a better fish than pay for delivery.  Ya know what I mean? > > I don't need or want a "show quality" fish -- but I'm very disappointed at the poor quality of fish that are available locally.  It's like they bred all the runts instead of keeping the better fry for themselves as breeding stock.  It makes no sense to me.  With all the knowledge about Betta genetics, you'd think the overall quality of commercially available fish would be IMPROVING.  If anything, it's getting worse. > > ONE of my local shops uses a "different" supplier -- probably a local breeder.  They have half a dozen halfway decent royal blue veiltails right now -- obviously brothers. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict when they'll get GOOD fish there.  It's usually shortly after I've bought a fish that I've "settled" for either there or elsewhere. > > Philly is way too far for me but Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton or Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are places that I don't mind going -- especially if I can combine the trip with other errands. > > In fact, I'll be in the Allentown/Bethlehem area on the 15th.  Speak up now if anyone knows someone who might have a Betta for me.  :o)  I prefer a crowntail but I'm open-minded -- especially if it's something "unusual." > > Sweet and Sour keeps looking at the empty tank next to him.  I think he's sad too. > ~Kai > > > > > Bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Kai! > >   > > Nice to hear from you.  If all else fails, may I suggest Aqua Bid? > >   > > In shopping you've probably noticed, if they look bad in one store, they look bad in all 5 of them.  Why? > >   > > They all use the same supplier?  Could be!  Better to try something off the radar, namely a trip to Allentown or Philly.  In order to make an upcoming purchase easier on both you and the fish may I also recommend the use of a 5-gallon bucket with a good tight fitting lid.  Take as much water as you can carry home from the store, it makes it easier on both the fish and you and the extra amount of water gives you a bit of grace with the travel time. > >   > > Bill > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Hello fellow fish-friends. > > > > My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while.  I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. > > > > Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta.  I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad.  Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage.  And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. > > > > But I digress... > > Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? > > ~Kai > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49312	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 10/12/2010
Subject: Re: Bettas in the Poconos?

I am living in Bellefonte, Pa. That is 12 milessouth of state college which is in the middle ofthe state. PSU. "Hugging is the ideal gift. Great for any occasion, fun to give and receive, shows you care, comes with it's own wrapping and, of course, is fully returnable. Hugging is practically perfect. No batteries to wear out, inflation-proof, nonfattening, no monthly payments, theft-proof and nontaxable." --- On Mon, 10/11/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Bettas in the Poconos? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 11, 2010, 10:18 PM   You have raised one interesting point Kai.  Since joining here I have often wondered myself?  How many people on this list are from Pennsylvania?  Anyone care to check in?   I just checked on group, we currently have 2480 members.  Not counting Kai and I, there has to be more than two of us from PA?   Bill --- On Mon, 10/11/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Bettas in the Poconos? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 11, 2010, 8:37 PM Well, that's why I asked here... hoping someone knows someone who knows someone else who lives near me. I'm not a breeder.  I/we just keep 3 at a time as beautiful pets.  I have two tanks up here on my computer desk and another downstairs on Mom's kitchen table. It seem that people sell either near-show quality fish or pet shop stock with badly managed genetics.  I'd be happy with something in between.  (Where are THOSE fish???) As I said, I'm partial to crowntails but I'm open minded -- especially if it's something "unusual."  :o) ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > I understand what you're saying Kai but sometimes you can run into a private breeder who is willing to both sell and share on Aqua Bid!  I met a very nice couple from New York when trying to work with German Blue Rams last year. >   > Many times these type of sellers are just as interested in selling their fish as they are to provide good homes and care of their animals and want other hobbyist to succeed as much or as well as they have done.  As for postage?  There was none!  It turns out they would run part of the Interstate down toward customers in Allentown and Philly areas.  I would met them at the junction and swap the fish there.  It never hurts to check.  Remember, they don't know you need the fish until you tell them! >   > If Betta's are you're thing I would highly suggest some detective work on you're part to try and locate some Betta Clubs in you're area or at the very least a fish club.  People in these clubs are always willing to help.  If they don't have exactly what you need, chances are they just might know someone who does. >   > Bill > > > Kai wrote: > > Hi Bill!  Thanks for your reply. > > Aqua Bid has tempted me in the past but the $25-35 shipping always puts me off.  I'd rather find a local breeder and put that $$ toward a better fish than pay for delivery.  Ya know what I mean? > > I don't need or want a "show quality" fish -- but I'm very disappointed at the poor quality of fish that are available locally.  It's like they bred all the runts instead of keeping the better fry for themselves as breeding stock.  It makes no sense to me.  With all the knowledge about Betta genetics, you'd think the overall quality of commercially available fish would be IMPROVING.  If anything, it's getting worse. > > ONE of my local shops uses a "different" supplier -- probably a local breeder.  They have half a dozen halfway decent royal blue veiltails right now -- obviously brothers. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict when they'll get GOOD fish there.  It's usually shortly after I've bought a fish that I've "settled" for either there or elsewhere. > > Philly is way too far for me but Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton or Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are places that I don't mind going -- especially if I can combine the trip with other errands. > > In fact, I'll be in the Allentown/Bethlehem area on the 15th.  Speak up now if anyone knows someone who might have a Betta for me.  :o)  I prefer a crowntail but I'm open-minded -- especially if it's something "unusual." > > Sweet and Sour keeps looking at the empty tank next to him.  I think he's sad too. > ~Kai > > > > > Bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Kai! > >   > > Nice to hear from you.  If all else fails, may I suggest Aqua Bid? > >   > > In shopping you've probably noticed, if they look bad in one store, they look bad in all 5 of them.  Why? > >   > > They all use the same supplier?  Could be!  Better to try something off the radar, namely a trip to Allentown or Philly.  In order to make an upcoming purchase easier on both you and the fish may I also recommend the use of a 5-gallon bucket with a good tight fitting lid.  Take as much water as you can carry home from the store, it makes it easier on both the fish and you and the extra amount of water gives you a bit of grace with the travel time. > >   > > Bill > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Hello fellow fish-friends. > > > > My tanks are doing well so you haven't heard from me for a while.  I lurk occasionally and smile to see so many familiar names. > > > > Chow Mein, my beautiful triple-double crowntail went to fishie heaven the other day and I'd love to replace him with something "better" than a pet store Betta.  I've been to 4-5 of them in the last day or two and the selection has been sad.  Scruffy, scrawny, washed out colors, lousy finnage.  And for the prices they're commanding, they really should be much NICER fish. > > > > But I digress... > > Are there any Betta breeders in or near the Poconos of Pennsylvania? > > ~Kai > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49313	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/12/2010
Subject: Not So Purple After All

There's a "better" aquarium store in town and since I was going to be in the area, I stopped in. And there he was... a PURPLE Betta! Not great but decent-for-pet-store fins, with just a hint of combtail sawtooth on their edges. So I bought him and brought him home, very excited about his color. And ya know what... it was all an illusion. It was their lights. Now that he's in my tank with my desk light for illumination, he's blue. Maybe a slight tinge of purple but nothing like how he looked under their lights. Oh well. But I'm not dissatisfied with my el-cheapo fishie. Sweet and Sour gave him the once over, then went back to moping. "That's not my old buddy, Chow Mein..." A little while later, he has perked up and is happy for his new neighbor. I think his name is going to be Moo Shoo. Long story short... even though I've replaced the Betta I lost, I still wouldn't mind making a connection with a breeder (etc) for next time. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49314	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/12/2010
Subject: Re: Not So Purple After All

Kai, Glad you now have a new fish. I did get a reply from my friend, and he does not know of any in his area. He blames it on the fact that there are no clubs in the area, but he is also a big cichlid guy (mostly Central American and northern South America). He would be widely recognized if I posted his name, as he has been published widely in the slicks as well as writing a number of papers for scientific journals. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Not So Purple After All There's a "better" aquarium store in town and since I was going to be in the area, I stopped in. And there he was... a PURPLE Betta! Not great but decent-for-pet-store fins, with just a hint of combtail sawtooth on their edges. So I bought him and brought him home, very excited about his color. And ya know what... it was all an illusion. It was their lights. Now that he's in my tank with my desk light for illumination, he's blue. Maybe a slight tinge of purple but nothing like how he looked under their lights. Oh well. But I'm not dissatisfied with my el-cheapo fishie. Sweet and Sour gave him the once over, then went back to moping. "That's not my old buddy, Chow Mein..." A little while later, he has perked up and is happy for his new neighbor. I think his name is going to be Moo Shoo. Long story short... even though I've replaced the Betta I lost, I still wouldn't mind making a connection with a breeder (etc) for next time. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49315	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not So Purple After All

Thanks for your efforts, Steve. Moo Shu is a little more purple in today's sunlight but still not nearly as purple as he looked in the store. And to my camera, he is cobalt blue (no flash) with a reddish head. I still wonder where the "in between" Bettas are sold. There is such a WIIIIDE quality gap between the fancy ones found online and the ill-bred ones found at pet shops. I realize that most are sold as "disposable" pets to Moms with little kids -- and that many don't survive very long. But surely there are many others like me who know how to care for them and who have read up about them enough to recognize and want BETTER quality Bettas. As I said before, there is certainly enough information about their genetics that the quality of commercial stock should be much higher than it is. ~Kai stepping off my soap box and ending my rant > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > Kai, > > Glad you now have a new fish. I did get a reply from my friend, and he does not know of any in his area. He blames it on the fact that there are no clubs in the area, but he is also a big cichlid guy (mostly Central American and northern South America). He would be widely recognized if I posted his name, as he has been published widely in the slicks as well as writing a number of papers for scientific journals. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > There's a "better" aquarium store in town and since I was going to be in the area, I stopped in. And there he was... a PURPLE Betta! Not great but decent-for-pet-store fins, with just a hint of combtail sawtooth on their edges. > > So I bought him and brought him home, very excited about his color. > > And ya know what... it was all an illusion. It was their lights. Now that he's in my tank with my desk light for illumination, he's blue. Maybe a slight tinge of purple but nothing like how he looked under their lights. > > Oh well. But I'm not dissatisfied with my el-cheapo fishie. > > Sweet and Sour gave him the once over, then went back to moping. "That's not my old buddy, Chow Mein..." A little while later, he has perked up and is happy for his new neighbor. > > I think his name is going to be Moo Shoo. > > Long story short... even though I've replaced the Betta I lost, I still wouldn't mind making a connection with a breeder (etc) for next time. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49316	From: haecklers	Date: 10/13/2010
Subject: New Member

Hi Everybody! I'm homeschooling my kids and we're living through some biology lessons that are getting out of control - LOL! We have around 11 "tanks" - some are pretty small tho. The largest is a 55 gallon that is home to 3 mbuna cichlids - melanochromis auratus; 5 tinfoil barbs, 2 bala sharks, 6 zebra danios, and a bristlenose pleco. Plants are marimos, elodea, anubis, and java fern, with various mosses. When the tinfoil barbs get too big we'll move them and the other fish and make it a species tank for the cichlids we're hoping will breed. Next largest is a 30 gallon high that has 9 juvenile convicts, 4 guppies, a ghost shrimp, and a bristlenose. Plants there are elodea, marimos, cabomba, and some moss. It's getting a large tree stump (cedar) but the stump still floats a little so it's in a tub outside. It is well-aged, been dead about 10 years. We want to breed one pair of the convicts, the largest now is about 1 3/4 inches, most of the females are just over an inch. They sure are pretty fish, with all the colors of the rainbow on them - the larger males have red in their tails with black outlines and the females tend more toward orange, yellow, and green, with blue when the light hits them right. The females are just starting to get the orange/yellow sparkly scales on their sides. The newest is a 20 gallon planted tank with soil under sand (a la Diana Walstad) that is temporary home to too many guppies, plus a female betta who is getting fat, two pearl gouramis, and a bristlenose pleco. Plants so far are 3 different kinds of crypts that I'm waiting to fill out some, a lotus I need to figure out how to overwinter, and marimos. Another 20 gallon has 11 baby angelfish (koi X Platinum) that we want to breed when they grow up (one pair from them), a male betta, 5 guppies, a bristlenose, 2 ghost shrimp, and soon 6 pepper cories. Plants in there are mostly cabomba and elodea, some moss and marimos, duckweed, and a piece of lotus. The guppies are growing out to a good size for the pet store (but the colors (orange and black with luminescent sides of blue/green) match the angelfish so it makes a beautiful display!) The angelfish were pre-dime size when we got them, now only 2 weeks later some are approaching nickel-size. I'm really astounded at how fast they grow! I have two 10-gallon tanks, one with a regular crayfish and one with two marmokrebs (self-cloning). The regular cray is living with a batch of guppy fry. They mostly seem too smart to get caught. He has a bunch of elodea he loves to munch on - enough it can grow to keep up with his appetite. Another 10-gallon has 4 Jack Dempsey fry we got for .50 each (they are so cute!) and 2 large tadpoles. It has various floating plants, and some rocks over a sand substrate. We were just going to raise them up to 2-3 inches then sell them but I've been hearing so many good things about them that maybe we'll get another big tank and keep one or two. The 5-gallon is the cherry shrimp tank - home to about 12 at the moment, along with another tadpole, a bristlenose, and 3 kuhli loaches that weren't doing well in the angelfish tank (lost 2 of the original batch). Lots of plants but since nothing in there eats snails they don't look very good. I have a 2-gallon hex that is home to my cleaning crew of 3 ghost shrimp. I put dirty plants in there and they clean off the hair algae and brown stuff. I'm hoping they breed but so far no luck, I think it's too cool. It has Christmas moss, vallisneria, and various other plants. We just bought a glass fishbowl that holds 5 gallons (for $12!) that will be home to one of our bettas; the other two live in 2-gallon bowls with plants and seem happy enough. I just did the math and that's 12, I guess. There are also golden clams spread out in different tanks. They keep the water clean but live under the substrate so you never see them.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49317	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not So Purple After All

Those fish that are not up to the standards of the breeder may well be going to feed a carnivorous fish or two he may be keeping, may be given to friends, euthanized, or sold off to local fish club members. Maybe some are even sold or traded at a LFS to help him offset costs. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not So Purple After All Thanks for your efforts, Steve. Moo Shu is a little more purple in today's sunlight but still not nearly as purple as he looked in the store. And to my camera, he is cobalt blue (no flash) with a reddish head. I still wonder where the "in between" Bettas are sold. There is such a WIIIIDE quality gap between the fancy ones found online and the ill-bred ones found at pet shops. I realize that most are sold as "disposable" pets to Moms with little kids -- and that many don't survive very long. But surely there are many others like me who know how to care for them and who have read up about them enough to recognize and want BETTER quality Bettas. As I said before, there is certainly enough information about their genetics that the quality of commercial stock should be much higher than it is. ~Kai stepping off my soap box and ending my rant > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > Kai, > > Glad you now have a new fish. I did get a reply from my friend, and he does not know of any in his area. He blames it on the fact that there are no clubs in the area, but he is also a big cichlid guy (mostly Central American and northern South America). He would be widely recognized if I posted his name, as he has been published widely in the slicks as well as writing a number of papers for scientific journals. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > There's a "better" aquarium store in town and since I was going to be in the area, I stopped in. And there he was... a PURPLE Betta! Not great but decent-for-pet-store fins, with just a hint of combtail sawtooth on their edges. > > So I bought him and brought him home, very excited about his color. > > And ya know what... it was all an illusion. It was their lights. Now that he's in my tank with my desk light for illumination, he's blue. Maybe a slight tinge of purple but nothing like how he looked under their lights. > > Oh well. But I'm not dissatisfied with my el-cheapo fishie. > > Sweet and Sour gave him the once over, then went back to moping. "That's not my old buddy, Chow Mein..." A little while later, he has perked up and is happy for his new neighbor. > > I think his name is going to be Moo Shoo. > > Long story short... even though I've replaced the Betta I lost, I still wouldn't mind making a connection with a breeder (etc) for next time. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49318	From: haecklers	Date: 10/13/2010
Subject: Re: Not So Purple After All

I have a bronze betta that looks really green in the sunlight. Under a 10,000 K light she looks deep blue. Maybe try changing your lightbulb. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Thanks for your efforts, Steve. > > Moo Shu is a little more purple in today's sunlight but still not nearly as purple as he looked in the store. And to my camera, he is cobalt blue (no flash) with a reddish head. > > I still wonder where the "in between" Bettas are sold. There is such a WIIIIDE quality gap between the fancy ones found online and the ill-bred ones found at pet shops. I realize that most are sold as "disposable" pets to Moms with little kids -- and that many don't survive very long. But surely there are many others like me who know how to care for them and who have read up about them enough to recognize and want BETTER quality Bettas. As I said before, there is certainly enough information about their genetics that the quality of commercial stock should be much higher than it is. > ~Kai > stepping off my soap box and ending my rant > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > Kai, > > > > Glad you now have a new fish. I did get a reply from my friend, and he does not know of any in his area. He blames it on the fact that there are no clubs in the area, but he is also a big cichlid guy (mostly Central American and northern South America). He would be widely recognized if I posted his name, as he has been published widely in the slicks as well as writing a number of papers for scientific journals. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > There's a "better" aquarium store in town and since I was going to be in the area, I stopped in. And there he was... a PURPLE Betta! Not great but decent-for-pet-store fins, with just a hint of combtail sawtooth on their edges. > > > > So I bought him and brought him home, very excited about his color. > > > > And ya know what... it was all an illusion. It was their lights. Now that he's in my tank with my desk light for illumination, he's blue. Maybe a slight tinge of purple but nothing like how he looked under their lights. > > > > Oh well. But I'm not dissatisfied with my el-cheapo fishie. > > > > Sweet and Sour gave him the once over, then went back to moping. "That's not my old buddy, Chow Mein..." A little while later, he has perked up and is happy for his new neighbor. > > > > I think his name is going to be Moo Shoo. > > > > Long story short... even though I've replaced the Betta I lost, I still wouldn't mind making a connection with a breeder (etc) for next time. > > ~Kai > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49319	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/16/2010
Subject: Census of Marine Life Completed

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3262&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_14_2010&utm_term=Census_of_Marine_Life_completed&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/27uxt4y Census of Marine Life completed Copyright (c) Thinkstock The long-awaited release of the first ever Census of Marine Life took place last week. At a Press conference at the Royal Institution the results of the 10 year long study which has involved 2,700 scientists from 80 nations were revealed. The study which has involved over 540 expeditions and 9,000 days at sea has been marked by the release of three landmark books, maps, films, websites, databases and a highlight summary. Over the decade more than 2,600 academic papers were published - one, on average, every 1.5 days. The team presented an unprecedented picture of the diversity, distribution, and abundance of all kinds of marine life in Planet Ocean - from microbes to whales, from the icy poles to the warm tropics, from tidal near shores to the deepest dark depths. Part of the study includes a database of ocean diversity known as the Ocean Biogeographic Information System (OBIS), which includes locations and identities of nearly 30 million observations of 120,000 species. Ian Poiner, chair of the Census Steering Committee said: "This cooperative international 21st century voyage has systematically defined for the first time both the known and the vast unknown, unexplored ocean." According to Dr. Poiner, the beauty, wonder, and importance of marine life are hard to overstate. "All surface life depends on life inside and beneath the oceans. Sea life provides half of our oxygen and a lot of our food and regulates climate. We are all citizens of the sea. And while much remains unknown, including at least 750,000 undiscovered species and their roles, we are better acquainted now with our fellow travelers and their vast habitat on this globe." The study will be used as a baseline for future work on the biodiversity of the ocean. PFK was lucky enough to be invited to attend the press conference for the launch of COML and will be reporting further in the magazine in future. Published: Nicolette Craig Monday 11 October 2010, 4:43 pm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49320	From: Linda Spaulding	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: Hello

Hello, I just joined this group. It looks like a lot of activity. I have two Betta's. One is Tatoo because he is light and has a square tatoo type marking on his side. This one does not take sunlight well, as he tries to hide under rocks at the very bottom if he is out in the sun too long. I keep my Betta's in glass two gallon bowls decorated with lots of color and lots of places for them to rest a bit during the day.  These two are males with long fins, and they do not blow bubbles much. Which is fine with me, but I find it a curiousity, because others I have had blew big bubble nests. The Blue one is simply named Blue.  So, there is my fishy story for today. Hope to learn a lot and hear about others adventures with their fish. LinS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49321	From: Bren Linny	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: im new what a perfect group

Hello, nice to have found such a comprehensive group. I should fit right in! I have outdoor ponds and indoor ponds, tanks and experience with just about every freshwater aquatic creature there is. I even had a marine tank for a while with varied life. I currently keep goldfish and plants in ponds and tanks. I have all my pond plants in a heated very well lit basement that i have turned into an oasis. Some are in the heated goldfish ponds with aquarium plants. My bog/marginals are in a heated pond with its own light set up. I can spend alot of time enjoying the atmosphere down there! Thanks again, bren

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49322	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: Re: Hello

LinS, Welcome to the list. It happens to be pretty quiet around here for now (thank goodness, because a couple of other lists I'm on have really gotten hot lately). Ever kept any other fish? Ever thought about breeding them? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda Spaulding Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hello Hello, I just joined this group. It looks like a lot of activity. I have two Betta's. One is Tatoo because he is light and has a square tatoo type marking on his side. This one does not take sunlight well, as he tries to hide under rocks at the very bottom if he is out in the sun too long. I keep my Betta's in glass two gallon bowls decorated with lots of color and lots of places for them to rest a bit during the day.  These two are males with long fins, and they do not blow bubbles much. Which is fine with me, but I find it a curiousity, because others I have had blew big bubble nests. The Blue one is simply named Blue.  So, there is my fishy story for today. Hope to learn a lot and hear about others adventures with their fish. LinS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49323	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: Re: im new what a perfect group

Bren, Welcome to the list.! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bren Linny Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:12 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] im new what a perfect group Hello, nice to have found such a comprehensive group. I should fit right in! I have outdoor ponds and indoor ponds, tanks and experience with just about every freshwater aquatic creature there is. I even had a marine tank for a while with varied life. I currently keep goldfish and plants in ponds and tanks. I have all my pond plants in a heated very well lit basement that i have turned into an oasis. Some are in the heated goldfish ponds with aquarium plants. My bog/marginals are in a heated pond with its own light set up. I can spend alot of time enjoying the atmosphere down there! Thanks again, bren

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49324	From: john Lewis	Date: 10/18/2010
Subject: Re: im new what a perfect group

Hello:    Welcome to the group!    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: Bren Linny <safirezprincess@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, October 18, 2010 7:11:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] im new what a perfect group   Hello, nice to have found such a comprehensive group. I should fit right in! I have outdoor ponds and indoor ponds, tanks and experience with just about every freshwater aquatic creature there is. I even had a marine tank for a while with varied life. I currently keep goldfish and plants in ponds and tanks. I have all my pond plants in a heated very well lit basement that i have turned into an oasis. Some are in the heated goldfish ponds with aquarium plants. My bog/marginals are in a heated pond with its own light set up. I can spend alot of time enjoying the atmosphere down there! Thanks again, bren [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49325	From: Leeann	Date: 10/19/2010
Subject: new member intro to group

Hello All, I am in the process of setting up a 20 gallon freshwater community tank. I used to keep a few tanks when I was a kid, but haven't done this in years...so, I'd consider myself a beginner. We live in southern Orange County, CA. If you happen to know of any incredible fish stores, please pass along your recommendations. While the tank is settling in, I have been planning. Here is what I came up with: 7 Rummy Nose Tetra - smaller bleheri species 3 male fancy guppies 4 dwarf corydoras - hastatus or habrosus 1 German Blue Ram What do you think? Too many for a 20 gal? Some have suggested the number of fish is too high, yet a nifty online tool I found which claims to be conservative didn't think so. I've read that Rams are not aggressive other than when there aren't enough hiding spaces or they are breeding. Is this true? I'm looking for a peaceful community...can't even take it when guppies get pushy with each other. If you think the Ram would be aggressive, I'd love suggestions for some other beauty that would take the Ram's place. Nice to meet you all and thanks in advance for any help you can give! Leeann

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49326	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/19/2010
Subject: Re: new member intro to group

Leeann, Overcrowded? Possibly. One needs to consider the full grown size of the fish when determining the capacity of the tank, and that not only considers the length of the fish, but the girth as well. While most fish can adapt to nearly all water conditions, the blue ram is one that will not do well when kept outside its requirements of very soft water with a low pH. In the wild, they have been found in waters approaching a pH of 4.0.The guppies will prefer a pH of more than 7.0, and hard water. The tetras and corys will prefer water that is somewhat soft and acidic. You really should know your water parameters before you start choosing fish, and get fish that suit your water. It is not recommended that you try to change the water parameters to fit the fish, especially to get it down toward the lower end of the scale, as it will often lead to grief and a tank that is not successful. Once you know the water parameters, you can look for fish that will be comfortable with your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leeann Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 3:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new member intro to group Hello All, I am in the process of setting up a 20 gallon freshwater community tank. I used to keep a few tanks when I was a kid, but haven't done this in years...so, I'd consider myself a beginner. We live in southern Orange County, CA. If you happen to know of any incredible fish stores, please pass along your recommendations. While the tank is settling in, I have been planning. Here is what I came up with: 7 Rummy Nose Tetra - smaller bleheri species 3 male fancy guppies 4 dwarf corydoras - hastatus or habrosus 1 German Blue Ram What do you think? Too many for a 20 gal? Some have suggested the number of fish is too high, yet a nifty online tool I found which claims to be conservative didn't think so. I've read that Rams are not aggressive other than when there aren't enough hiding spaces or they are breeding. Is this true? I'm looking for a peaceful community...can't even take it when guppies get pushy with each other. If you think the Ram would be aggressive, I'd love suggestions for some other beauty that would take the Ram's place. Nice to meet you all and thanks in advance for any help you can give! Leeann ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49327	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/19/2010
Subject: Re: new member intro to group

One thing to add here Leeann, is when Steve is talking to you about water parameters, this also includes "water temperature".  The German Blue Ram likes soft, warm water.  Warm to the tune of 82 to 84 degrees.  This would not match well with some of the other fish on your list.   Bill --- On Tue, 10/19/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new member intro to group To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 6:55 AM Leeann, Overcrowded? Possibly. One needs to consider the full grown size of the fish when determining the capacity of the tank, and that not only considers the length of the fish, but the girth as well. While most fish can adapt to nearly all water conditions, the blue ram is one that will not do well when kept outside its requirements of very soft water with a low pH. In the wild, they have been found in waters approaching a pH of 4.0.The guppies will prefer a pH of more than 7.0, and hard water. The tetras and corys will prefer water that is somewhat soft and acidic. You really should know your water parameters before you start choosing fish, and get fish that suit your water. It is not recommended that you try to change the water parameters to fit the fish, especially to get it down toward the lower end of the scale, as it will often lead to grief and a tank that is not successful. Once you know the water parameters, you can look for fish that will be comfortable with your water. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leeann Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 3:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new member intro to group Hello All, I am in the process of setting up a 20 gallon freshwater community tank.  I used to keep a few tanks when I was a kid, but haven't done this in years...so, I'd consider myself a beginner. We live in southern Orange County, CA.  If you happen to know of any incredible fish stores, please pass along your recommendations. While the tank is settling in, I have been planning.  Here is what I came up with: 7 Rummy Nose Tetra - smaller bleheri species 3 male fancy guppies 4 dwarf corydoras - hastatus or habrosus 1 German Blue Ram What do you think?  Too many for a 20 gal?  Some have suggested the number of fish is too high, yet a nifty online tool I found which claims to be conservative didn't think so. I've read that Rams are not aggressive other than when there aren't enough hiding spaces or they are breeding.  Is this true?  I'm looking for a peaceful community...can't even take it when guppies get pushy with each other.  If you think the Ram would be aggressive, I'd love suggestions for some other beauty that would take the Ram's place. Nice to meet you all and thanks in advance for any help you can give! Leeann  ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49328	From: LindaS	Date: 10/20/2010
Subject: Thanks for the welcome

Thanks for the welcome. I feel a little underfished here, with my two small Betta's and in bowls. I envy the outdoor pond, that would be great, but I am a multi pet family, and I live in the high desert of CA. I think it could never happen here. I've had tanks long ago, mostly for my son. I will never forget that we got a shark fish (Pretty new on the market at the time) and it disappeared. We never found it anywhere. But, it was a neat fish while we had it. Hubby is an occasional scubba diver, so, he gets to see all kinds of aqudic wonders. Brings some treasures up from the bottom of the ocean once in awile. I wish someone would develop a small plastic heated tank for the Betta's (divided). They are fighting fish, so, they have to be alone, but you always feel sorry for them. Especially when I had the ones that blew the bubble nests. Yes. I have looked into breeding, and it looks like fun, but also very time consuming. I've heard the old scenereo about buying one Betta fish, and winding up thousands of dollars later with all this equipment and features. So, I just like the calming fish, and keep mine simple. We wondered how they exist in the wild if they fight. They live in rice patties and like to hide under the greanery. Sometimes I will take lettuce (Organic) or even a small pice of bamboo plant and put it in for them to rest on. It lasts a long time, maybe 3-4 weeks. Enjoy fishen' today! LinS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49329	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/20/2010
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome

Google "betta barracks" to find the sort of setup you are thinking about, though the individual betta's space may not be what you imagine. Generally, in this sort of situation, the room is kept at a high temperature, and that is how the water is heated. If you want a pond, simply add a conservatory to your house large enough to include a pond. There are some examples of that near here, on the east coast, and Longwood gardens in PA immediately jump to mind. Of course this conservatory is a building unto itself, and larger than the normal house, actually probably all the houses, on an average residential block, but it can be accomplished on a smaller scale than that. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LindaS Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 3:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thanks for the welcome Thanks for the welcome. I feel a little underfished here, with my two small Betta's and in bowls. I envy the outdoor pond, that would be great, but I am a multi pet family, and I live in the high desert of CA. I think it could never happen here. I've had tanks long ago, mostly for my son. I will never forget that we got a shark fish (Pretty new on the market at the time) and it disappeared. We never found it anywhere. But, it was a neat fish while we had it. Hubby is an occasional scubba diver, so, he gets to see all kinds of aqudic wonders. Brings some treasures up from the bottom of the ocean once in awile. I wish someone would develop a small plastic heated tank for the Betta's (divided). They are fighting fish, so, they have to be alone, but you always feel sorry for them. Especially when I had the ones that blew the bubble nests. Yes. I have looked into breeding, and it looks like fun, but also very time consuming. I've heard the old scenereo about buying one Betta fish, and winding up thousands of dollars later with all this equipment and features. So, I just like the calming fish, and keep mine simple. We wondered how they exist in the wild if they fight. They live in rice patties and like to hide under the greanery. Sometimes I will take lettuce (Organic) or even a small pice of bamboo plant and put it in for them to rest on. It lasts a long time, maybe 3-4 weeks. Enjoy fishen' today! LinS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49330	From: haecklers	Date: 10/21/2010
Subject: Re: Thanks for the welcome

We had a "pond" from one of those 20 gallon round tubs with handles they used to sell for $5 (up to around $7 lately). We filled it with water and let it sit for a few weeks, then added some feeder goldfish. They really thrived in there. The next year we got more adventurous and put some guppies in with the goldfish for the summer. Their colors got a lot brighter and they were the most active, alert ones! This last summer we put out female betta fish (on sale for $1 each), guppies, feeder fish, tadpoles, convicts, ghost shrimp, golden clams, pond snails and a bristlenose catfish in 3 separate containers. None of them died, except when temperatures got too hot for them on the blacktop driveway we lost one betta and some of the guppies - but then I found out you can add ice to cool the water. But considering how many fish die the first week they come from the pet store (and we picked some sick looking fish after awhile to see if we could save them with our sun-and-algae therapy - it worked!), we really lost very few fish, even including the overheating. You do have to cycle the "ponds" and it helps to put in some duckweed or other floating plants to consume the ammonia the fish generate. But ours had no pump or aerator - nothing but container, water, and plants. Now we're getting some breeding fish to have babies next summer to try to grow out outdoors. We may even have a cherry shrimp tub and see how many we have by the end of the summer. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "LindaS" <maxinatrillion@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the welcome. I feel a little underfished here, with my two small Betta's and in bowls. I envy the outdoor pond, that would be great, but I am a multi pet family, and I live in the high desert of CA. I think it could never happen here. > I've had tanks long ago, mostly for my son. I will never forget that we got a shark fish (Pretty new on the market at the time) and it disappeared. We never found it anywhere. But, it was a neat fish while we had it. > Hubby is an occasional scubba diver, so, he gets to see all kinds of aqudic wonders. Brings some treasures up from the bottom of the ocean once in awile. > I wish someone would develop a small plastic heated tank for the Betta's (divided). They are fighting fish, so, they have to be alone, but you always feel sorry for them. Especially when I had the ones that blew the bubble nests. > Yes. I have looked into breeding, and it looks like fun, but also very time consuming. I've heard the old scenereo about buying one Betta fish, and winding up thousands of dollars later with all this equipment and features. So, I just like the calming fish, and keep mine simple. > We wondered how they exist in the wild if they fight. They live in rice patties and like to hide under the greanery. Sometimes I will take lettuce (Organic) or even a small pice of bamboo plant and put it in for them to rest on. It lasts a long time, maybe 3-4 weeks. > Enjoy fishen' today! > LinS >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49331	From: LindaS	Date: 10/22/2010
Subject: pond with multiple fish

That sounds really interesting, is it that deep barrel type? Or more flat and spread out. Did the Betta get along in the bigger area and not fight? I'm curious about that. I knew right away what you were talking about the water gets hot when I put them outside. I paniced one day, thinging I was boiling my fish and brought them in and put cold water in. I don't like to use chemicals and naturally declorinate the water if I can. Thanks for the info, and make me feel welcome. Linda S

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49332	From: haecklers	Date: 10/24/2010
Subject: Re: pond with multiple fish

Yes, it's the shape of those half-barrels they sell for ridiculous prices. I only had one betta in the barrel. We started out with two females but they fought and one hid all the time so we took her out. She was in with 3 feeder goldfish and some guppy fry that I wanted to grow out. The goldfish will eat the very small guppy fry but after a couple of weeks they're too big for the goldfish to think of as food. If you put feeder guppies outdoors (when it gets warmer) they really get nice colors as they mature. For tanks crowded with plants, I think there is nothing prettier than male feeder guppies. Their sides shine rainbows of color as they move under the light. The manager of the local fish store happily takes as many as I bring in - and sells them as fancy guppies! :) Every spring we start checking the feeder goldfish at the different stores looking for pretty ones that need rescuing. They can handle fairly cold temperatures if they're used to it and in good health, so they go in first to start the "ponds" cycling again. In the fall I had been moving them in with my tropical fish but they don't do well for me indoors, so this year I put an ad on craigslist and found them a home in a 100 gallon tank with some other goldfish (and met a neat fish person!) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "LindaS" <maxinatrillion@...> wrote: > > That sounds really interesting, is it that deep barrel type? Or more flat and spread out. Did the Betta get along in the bigger area and not fight? I'm curious about that. > I knew right away what you were talking about the water gets hot when I put them outside. I paniced one day, thinging I was boiling my fish and brought them in and put cold water in. I don't like to use chemicals and naturally declorinate the water if I can. > Thanks for the info, and make me feel welcome. > Linda S >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49333	From: haecklers	Date: 10/24/2010
Subject: What to do with late-maturing froglets?

I let the kids take 3 tiny tadpoles home from a stream. Instead of growing legs and becoming tiny frogs, they grew to 3" long then started on the legs. It's getting progressively colder outside, and they still have their full tails. We were just going to enjoy seeing them grow up then let them go but now I'm afraid it's too late in the year and they'll die in the cold! We have a habitat set up with an anole, and a whole cricket farm to feed the lizard from. It wouldn't be hard to start a fruit fly colony to feed the froglets while they are small until they are big enough to eat the crickets and keep them through the winter. Does anyone have any ideas what would be the best thing to do? They are big enough I don't think the anole would try to eat them. She mostly just sits under her lamps now that it's colder (winter resting period).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49334	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 10/24/2010
Subject: Re: What to do with late-maturing froglets?

They sound like bullfrog tadpoles based on the size and slowness to develop. When they become frogs - a 2 year period, they will eat crickets, other frogs, anything that moves - including your anole. Not sure how cold it gets where you are. In California they can over winter outdoors. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: haecklers <haecklers@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, October 24, 2010 6:29:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] What to do with late-maturing froglets? I let the kids take 3 tiny tadpoles home from a stream. Instead of growing legs and becoming tiny frogs, they grew to 3" long then started on the legs. It's getting progressively colder outside, and they still have their full tails. We were just going to enjoy seeing them grow up then let them go but now I'm afraid it's too late in the year and they'll die in the cold! We have a habitat set up with an anole, and a whole cricket farm to feed the lizard from. It wouldn't be hard to start a fruit fly colony to feed the froglets while they are small until they are big enough to eat the crickets and keep them through the winter. Does anyone have any ideas what would be the best thing to do? They are big enough I don't think the anole would try to eat them. She mostly just sits under her lamps now that it's colder (winter resting period). ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49335	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Completely Different Frog Questions

Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail recently passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just misses the companionship. Really! "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what if I got her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail was a bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as snails? Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? (I've never had a frog before...) ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49336	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The only one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a betta would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an inch and a half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta in a 10 gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the surface to get air. They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, but I did lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a body, either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the dead body). DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, but they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank that will fit in their mouth. Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african clawed frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed frogs are very aggressive. Amber On 10/25/2010 5:43 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail recently passed. > The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just misses the > companionship. Really! > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what if I got her > Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail was a bit > of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as snails? Can > the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? (I've never > had a frog before...) > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49337	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Thanks, Amber! :o) I'm pretty sure Mom's tank is a 2.5g bow. It's "just a bowl" with no aeration and only natural/room light. Nothing electrical (no more outlets available.) I made a clear plexi lid for it (yes, with an air/food hole) instead of the opaque monstrosity it came with. There is a table lamp nearby for light. There is a live potted (in a glass) amazon sword but no substrate in the tank itself. What does the DAF eat? Leftover Betta food? (Cos Mom overfeeds him terribly.) Algae disks? And will he be as "dirty" as the snail? ~Kai > Amber Berglund wrote: > > How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The only one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a betta would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an inch and a half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta in a 10 gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the surface to get air. > They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, but I did lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a body, either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the dead body). > DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, but they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank that will fit in their mouth. > Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african clawed frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed frogs are very aggressive. > > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail recently passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just misses the companionship. Really! > > > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what if I got her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail was a bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as snails? Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? (I've never had a frog before...) > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49338	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: What to do with late-maturing froglets?

Until they are fully developed adult frogs, tadpoles eat mostly algae. The other thing to be careful of is the habitat with your anole... not only will the frogs likely try to eat her when they're adults, but the environments they need are quite different. Adding a tadpole to a situation where you are running a heat lamp for the anole is not a real good idea. Tadpoles are usually pretty sturdy, but they have their limits. Keeping the water temp at a safe level and keeping enough in there to avoid evaporation real fast will not be an easy job. How big of a tank is it that you are planning to use? Is it possible to put the tadpoles into a tank of their own? Tadpoles are also quite dirty, so expect to do lots of water changes. (they put out a high amount of waste) Be sure whatever tank they are in is sealed well. Frogs can be great escape artists once they completely lose their tails and are not confined to the water anymore. Once they are fully morphed they also get quite noisy, especially at night. You are right to assume that it is too late in the year (if you're in a cold climate) to let the tadpoles go back to the wild. They have not had time to prepare for winter and would likely die or become food for another animal that is getting ready for winter. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > I let the kids take 3 tiny tadpoles home from a stream. Instead of growing legs and becoming tiny frogs, they grew to 3" long then started on the legs. It's getting progressively colder outside, and they still have their full tails. > > We were just going to enjoy seeing them grow up then let them go but now I'm afraid it's too late in the year and they'll die in the cold! > > We have a habitat set up with an anole, and a whole cricket farm to feed the lizard from. It wouldn't be hard to start a fruit fly colony to feed the froglets while they are small until they are big enough to eat the crickets and keep them through the winter. > > Does anyone have any ideas what would be the best thing to do? They are big enough I don't think the anole would try to eat them. She mostly just sits under her lamps now that it's colder (winter resting period). >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49339	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Mine seems to prefer carnivore sinking pellets (or something meaty), but they will eat leftover betta food too. They are not very dirty that I can tell, in fact I have NEVER seen my DAF even poop, LOL. I'm sure it does, but it seems to prefer privacy when it goes ;) LOL. The DAF's seem to be more of a "I'll eat what I can find, when I get around to finding it" type of critter. Mine will stay inactive sitting on a plant for quite awhile then suddenly go looking for food or go up for air. They do more sitting around than swimming, but they give the betta something to display for now and then ;). My betta would leave my DAF alone most of the time, except when he actually noticed the frog was there, then he'd go up and display for him a little then swim off. Otherwise they ignore each other most of the time. It adds a little activity to your betta tank at least. I'm not sure how much room DAF's require, I will do a quick google search. Looks like 1 gallon per frog minimum, so you should be okay with 1 frog and a betta in your 2.5 gallon bowl. Temp range is 75-82F and pH of 6.5-7.5. I kept my frog in a 10 gallon unheated tank for over a year with room temps around 75-78F, so you should be fine as long as it's near 75F. Here is a cut and paste from the wikipedia on african frogs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dwarf_frog): ADF's (or also known as DAF's) are compatible with most bottom feeders and algae eaters. Respectful tropical fish can also be used as tank mates although aggressive fish will often fight or injure the frogs. As African dwarf frogs are slow eaters it is not uncommon for tank-mates to eat all the food while the frogs go hungry. If this becomes a problem, methods of delivering the food directly to the bottom of the tank (such as with a turkey baster) should be employed to ensure the frogs are adequately fed. African dwarf frogs do not have teeth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth>, so they swallow their food whole. Common foods include blood worms <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_worm>, brine shrimp, water fleas <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_flea> (daphnia), shrimp <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrimp>, and various brands of commercial frog food. These frogs will also eat mosquito <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito> larvae <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva>, black worms <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_worm>, guppy fry, glassworms, tadpole bites, reptomin, gammarus, dried krill, baby shrimp, frozen beefheart, small fish, and small earthworms <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworm>. On rare occasions these frogs will eat water snails <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail> and brittle shells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seashell>. African dwarf frogs are bottom-feeders <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom-feeder> and are rarely seen eating at the surface of the water. Care should be taken when handling African Dwarf frogs, especially when considering them as a pet for young children. These frogs should never be held outside the tank, both for the safety of the frog and as they may be carriers for Salmonella. (end quote) Hope that helps :) Amber On 10/25/2010 7:16 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Thanks, Amber! :o) > > I'm pretty sure Mom's tank is a 2.5g bow. It's "just a bowl" with no > aeration and only natural/room light. Nothing electrical (no more > outlets available.) I made a clear plexi lid for it (yes, with an > air/food hole) instead of the opaque monstrosity it came with. There > is a table lamp nearby for light. There is a live potted (in a glass) > amazon sword but no substrate in the tank itself. > > What does the DAF eat? Leftover Betta food? (Cos Mom overfeeds him > terribly.) Algae disks? And will he be as "dirty" as the snail? > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The only > one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a betta > would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an inch and a > half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta in a 10 > gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the surface to > get air. > > They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, but I did > lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a body, > either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the dead body). > > DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, but > they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank that > will fit in their mouth. > > Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african clawed > frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed frogs are > very aggressive. > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail recently > passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just > misses the companionship. Really! > > > > > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what if I got > her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail was a > bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as snails? > Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? (I've > never had a frog before...) > > > ~Kai > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49340	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: What to do with late-maturing froglets?

A coworker of mine raised bull frog tadpoles up to adult frogs and also states they are VERY dirty animals. He cannot release them into the wild here as we do not have a population of bull frogs in the wild here, hopefully other school children's parents are just as responsible, as I would hate to have them released into the wild here and cause issues with the rest of our wildlife like the stupid tree frogs have (people released those years ago and now they're eating other critters out of house and home). And here they have RATS outlawed as pets (unless you have an albino rat, that's the only color allowed, LOL), yet they let people have frogs as pets and they end up released into the wild, silly laws. My coworker keeps trying to give me his frogs, and I keep saying NO! LOL. You could probably find a cheap 10 gallon tank, people sometimes give them away (they're so common it's hard to sell them for very much money). They also have them at Wal-Mart (it comes with a filter and light/hood as well) for pretty cheap (I think it was about 25 dollars here, but it was on sale when I bought it), if you're not planning on keeping the frogs past next spring you could probably get away with a 10 gallon with water changes/filter cleanings every few days (try not to wait more than a week at most between water changes and filter cleanings) to keep the water from getting too dirty. Amber On 10/25/2010 12:47 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Until they are fully developed adult frogs, tadpoles eat mostly algae. > The other thing to be careful of is the habitat with your anole... not > only will the frogs likely try to eat her when they're adults, but the > environments they need are quite different. Adding a tadpole to a > situation where you are running a heat lamp for the anole is not a > real good idea. Tadpoles are usually pretty sturdy, but they have > their limits. Keeping the water temp at a safe level and keeping > enough in there to avoid evaporation real fast will not be an easy job. > How big of a tank is it that you are planning to use? Is it possible > to put the tadpoles into a tank of their own? Tadpoles are also quite > dirty, so expect to do lots of water changes. (they put out a high > amount of waste) Be sure whatever tank they are in is sealed well. > Frogs can be great escape artists once they completely lose their > tails and are not confined to the water anymore. Once they are fully > morphed they also get quite noisy, especially at night. > > You are right to assume that it is too late in the year (if you're in > a cold climate) to let the tadpoles go back to the wild. They have not > had time to prepare for winter and would likely die or become food for > another animal that is getting ready for winter. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > > > I let the kids take 3 tiny tadpoles home from a stream. Instead of > growing legs and becoming tiny frogs, they grew to 3" long then > started on the legs. It's getting progressively colder outside, and > they still have their full tails. > > > > We were just going to enjoy seeing them grow up then let them go but > now I'm afraid it's too late in the year and they'll die in the cold! > > > > We have a habitat set up with an anole, and a whole cricket farm to > feed the lizard from. It wouldn't be hard to start a fruit fly colony > to feed the froglets while they are small until they are big enough to > eat the crickets and keep them through the winter. > > > > Does anyone have any ideas what would be the best thing to do? They > are big enough I don't think the anole would try to eat them. She > mostly just sits under her lamps now that it's colder (winter resting > period). > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49341	From: Bren Linny	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions/dwarf a.frogs

Omg-stop! Now y'all have done it! All this talk of tadpoles and frogs started it, but daf- now i have to start another tank and keep the cute little pets again. I wish the petstore were open right now! A few years back i had a highly planted tank with various snails, guppies and daf's that was a lot of fun. Two of the female guppies were perpetually pregnant and the last surviving frog seemed to only eat fry. I ended up breeding some unique guppies, too. I put alot of daphnea in there for snacks for everyone, which improved the colors of the guppies and helped filter the water. I have extra cycled filter medium, a new tank & an abundance of goldfish fry + live cycling bacteria to add to the new filter- pet store here i come! bren

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49342	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Wow, that was a lot of info, Amber! Thanks! I spoke with Mom and she said she likes the idea of another snail better, even if they do dirty up the tank. She is worried that her Betta will be too much of a bully (he is pretty macho) for a frog. "At least the snail has a shell for protection." Bren is dashing off to the pet shop for frogs. And I'll dash off for another snail. ~Kai > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Mine seems to prefer carnivore sinking pellets (or something meaty), but they will eat leftover betta food too. They are not very dirty that I can tell, in fact I have NEVER seen my DAF even poop, LOL. I'm sure it does, but it seems to prefer privacy when it goes ;) LOL. The DAF's seem to be more of a "I'll eat what I can find, when I get around to finding it" type of critter. Mine will stay inactive sitting on a plant for quite awhile then suddenly go looking for food or go up for air. They do more sitting around than swimming, but they give the betta something to display for now and then ;). My betta would leave my DAF alone most of the time, except when he actually noticed the frog was there, then he'd go up and display for him a little then swim off. Otherwise they ignore each other most of the time. It adds a little activity to your betta tank at least. > > I'm not sure how much room DAF's require, I will do a quick google search. Looks like 1 gallon per frog minimum, so you should be okay with 1 frog and a betta in your 2.5 gallon bowl. Temp range is 75-82F and pH of 6.5-7.5. I kept my frog in a 10 gallon unheated tank for over a year with room temps around 75-78F, so you should be fine as long as it's near 75F. > > Here is a cut and paste from the wikipedia on african frogs > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dwarf_frog): > > ADF's (or also known as DAF's) are compatible with most bottom feeders and algae eaters. Respectful tropical fish can also be used as tank mates although aggressive fish will often fight or injure the frogs. As African dwarf frogs are slow eaters it is not uncommon for tank-mates to eat all the food while the frogs go hungry. If this becomes a problem, methods of delivering the food directly to the bottom of the tank (such as with a turkey baster) should be employed to ensure the frogs are adequately fed. > > African dwarf frogs do not have teeth <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth>, so they swallow their food whole. > Common foods include blood worms <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_worm>, brine shrimp, water fleas <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_flea> (daphnia), shrimp <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrimp>, and various brands of commercial frog food. These frogs will also eat mosquito <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito> larvae <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva>, black worms <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_worm>, guppy fry, glassworms, tadpole bites, reptomin, gammarus, dried krill, baby shrimp, frozen beefheart, small fish, and small earthworms <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworm>. On rare occasions these frogs will eat water snails <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail> and brittle shells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seashell>. African dwarf frogs are bottom-feeders <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom-feeder> and are rarely seen eating at the surface of the water. > > Care should be taken when handling African Dwarf frogs, especially when considering them as a pet for young children. These frogs should never be held outside the tank, both for the safety of the frog and as they may be carriers for Salmonella. (end quote) > > Hope that helps :) > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Thanks, Amber! :o) > > > > I'm pretty sure Mom's tank is a 2.5g bow. It's "just a bowl" with no aeration and only natural/room light. Nothing electrical (no more outlets available.) I made a clear plexi lid for it (yes, with an air/food hole) instead of the opaque monstrosity it came with. There is a table lamp nearby for light. There is a live potted (in a glass) amazon sword but no substrate in the tank itself. > > > > What does the DAF eat? Leftover Betta food? (Cos Mom overfeeds him terribly.) Algae disks? And will he be as "dirty" as the snail? > > ~Kai > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The only one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a betta would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an inch and a half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta in a 10 gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the surface to get air. > > > They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, but I did lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a body, either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the dead body). > > > DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, but they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank that will fit in their mouth. > > > Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african clawed frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed frogs are very aggressive. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail recently passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just misses the companionship. Really! > > > > > > > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what if I got her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail was a bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as snails? Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? (I've never had a frog before...) > > > > ~Kai > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49343	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/25/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

I'm going to get a few more DAF/ADF's this weekend myself, I think my solo one would like some frog-mates. I may get another betta for the tank or not, I haven't decided yet. I suppose it will depend on if they have any pretty crowntail bettas out at the LFS. Amber On 10/25/2010 5:27 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Wow, that was a lot of info, Amber! Thanks! > > I spoke with Mom and she said she likes the idea of another snail > better, even if they do dirty up the tank. She is worried that her > Betta will be too much of a bully (he is pretty macho) for a frog. "At > least the snail has a shell for protection." > > Bren is dashing off to the pet shop for frogs. And I'll dash off for > another snail. > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Mine seems to prefer carnivore sinking pellets (or something meaty), > but they will eat leftover betta food too. They are not very dirty > that I can tell, in fact I have NEVER seen my DAF even poop, LOL. I'm > sure it does, but it seems to prefer privacy when it goes ;) LOL. The > DAF's seem to be more of a "I'll eat what I can find, when I get > around to finding it" type of critter. Mine will stay inactive sitting > on a plant for quite awhile then suddenly go looking for food or go up > for air. They do more sitting around than swimming, but they give the > betta something to display for now and then ;). My betta would leave > my DAF alone most of the time, except when he actually noticed the > frog was there, then he'd go up and display for him a little then swim > off. Otherwise they ignore each other most of the time. It adds a > little activity to your betta tank at least. > > > > I'm not sure how much room DAF's require, I will do a quick google > search. Looks like 1 gallon per frog minimum, so you should be okay > with 1 frog and a betta in your 2.5 gallon bowl. Temp range is 75-82F > and pH of 6.5-7.5. I kept my frog in a 10 gallon unheated tank for > over a year with room temps around 75-78F, so you should be fine as > long as it's near 75F. > > > > Here is a cut and paste from the wikipedia on african frogs > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dwarf_frog): > > > > ADF's (or also known as DAF's) are compatible with most bottom > feeders and algae eaters. Respectful tropical fish can also be used as > tank mates although aggressive fish will often fight or injure the > frogs. As African dwarf frogs are slow eaters it is not uncommon for > tank-mates to eat all the food while the frogs go hungry. If this > becomes a problem, methods of delivering the food directly to the > bottom of the tank (such as with a turkey baster) should be employed > to ensure the frogs are adequately fed. > > > > African dwarf frogs do not have teeth > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth>, so they swallow their food whole. > > Common foods include blood worms > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_worm>, brine shrimp, water fleas > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_flea> (daphnia), shrimp > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrimp>, and various brands of > commercial frog food. These frogs will also eat mosquito > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito> larvae > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva>, black worms > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_worm>, guppy fry, glassworms, > tadpole bites, reptomin, gammarus, dried krill, baby shrimp, frozen > beefheart, small fish, and small earthworms > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworm>. On rare occasions these > frogs will eat water snails <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail> and > brittle shells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seashell>. African dwarf > frogs are bottom-feeders <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom-feeder> > and are rarely seen eating at the surface of the water. > > > > Care should be taken when handling African Dwarf frogs, especially > when considering them as a pet for young children. These frogs should > never be held outside the tank, both for the safety of the frog and as > they may be carriers for Salmonella. (end quote) > > > > Hope that helps :) > > Amber > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, Amber! :o) > > > > > > I'm pretty sure Mom's tank is a 2.5g bow. It's "just a bowl" with > no aeration and only natural/room light. Nothing electrical (no more > outlets available.) I made a clear plexi lid for it (yes, with an > air/food hole) instead of the opaque monstrosity it came with. There > is a table lamp nearby for light. There is a live potted (in a glass) > amazon sword but no substrate in the tank itself. > > > > > > What does the DAF eat? Leftover Betta food? (Cos Mom overfeeds him > terribly.) Algae disks? And will he be as "dirty" as the snail? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The > only one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a > betta would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an inch > and a half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta > in a 10 gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the > surface to get air. > > > > They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, but I > did lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a > body, either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the dead > body). > > > > DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, > but they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank > that will fit in their mouth. > > > > Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african > clawed frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed > frogs are very aggressive. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail recently > passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just > misses the companionship. Really! > > > > > > > > > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what if I > got her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail > was a bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as > snails? Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? > (I've never had a frog before...) > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49344	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/26/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. ~Kai > Amber Berglund wrote: > > I'm going to get a few more DAF/ADF's this weekend myself, I think my solo one would like some frog-mates. I may get another betta for the tank or not, I haven't decided yet. I suppose it will depend on if they have any pretty crowntail bettas out at the LFS. > > Amber > > On 10/25/2010 5:27 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Wow, that was a lot of info, Amber! Thanks! > > > > I spoke with Mom and she said she likes the idea of another snail > > better, even if they do dirty up the tank. She is worried that her > > Betta will be too much of a bully (he is pretty macho) for a frog. "At > > least the snail has a shell for protection." > > > > Bren is dashing off to the pet shop for frogs. And I'll dash off for > > another snail. > > ~Kai > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Mine seems to prefer carnivore sinking pellets (or something meaty), > > but they will eat leftover betta food too. They are not very dirty > > that I can tell, in fact I have NEVER seen my DAF even poop, LOL. I'm > > sure it does, but it seems to prefer privacy when it goes ;) LOL. The > > DAF's seem to be more of a "I'll eat what I can find, when I get > > around to finding it" type of critter. Mine will stay inactive sitting > > on a plant for quite awhile then suddenly go looking for food or go up > > for air. They do more sitting around than swimming, but they give the > > betta something to display for now and then ;). My betta would leave > > my DAF alone most of the time, except when he actually noticed the > > frog was there, then he'd go up and display for him a little then swim > > off. Otherwise they ignore each other most of the time. It adds a > > little activity to your betta tank at least. > > > > > > I'm not sure how much room DAF's require, I will do a quick google > > search. Looks like 1 gallon per frog minimum, so you should be okay > > with 1 frog and a betta in your 2.5 gallon bowl. Temp range is 75-82F > > and pH of 6.5-7.5. I kept my frog in a 10 gallon unheated tank for > > over a year with room temps around 75-78F, so you should be fine as > > long as it's near 75F. > > > > > > Here is a cut and paste from the wikipedia on african frogs > > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dwarf_frog): > > > > > > ADF's (or also known as DAF's) are compatible with most bottom > > feeders and algae eaters. Respectful tropical fish can also be used as > > tank mates although aggressive fish will often fight or injure the > > frogs. As African dwarf frogs are slow eaters it is not uncommon for > > tank-mates to eat all the food while the frogs go hungry. If this > > becomes a problem, methods of delivering the food directly to the > > bottom of the tank (such as with a turkey baster) should be employed > > to ensure the frogs are adequately fed. > > > > > > African dwarf frogs do not have teeth > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth>, so they swallow their food whole. > > > Common foods include blood worms > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_worm>, brine shrimp, water fleas > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_flea> (daphnia), shrimp > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrimp>, and various brands of > > commercial frog food. These frogs will also eat mosquito > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito> larvae > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva>, black worms > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_worm>, guppy fry, glassworms, > > tadpole bites, reptomin, gammarus, dried krill, baby shrimp, frozen > > beefheart, small fish, and small earthworms > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworm>. On rare occasions these > > frogs will eat water snails <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail> and > > brittle shells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seashell>. African dwarf > > frogs are bottom-feeders <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom-feeder> > > and are rarely seen eating at the surface of the water. > > > > > > Care should be taken when handling African Dwarf frogs, especially > > when considering them as a pet for young children. These frogs should > > never be held outside the tank, both for the safety of the frog and as > > they may be carriers for Salmonella. (end quote) > > > > > > Hope that helps :) > > > Amber > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber! :o) > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure Mom's tank is a 2.5g bow. It's "just a bowl" with > > no aeration and only natural/room light. Nothing electrical (no more > > outlets available.) I made a clear plexi lid for it (yes, with an > > air/food hole) instead of the opaque monstrosity it came with. There > > is a table lamp nearby for light. There is a live potted (in a glass) > > amazon sword but no substrate in the tank itself. > > > > > > > > What does the DAF eat? Leftover Betta food? (Cos Mom overfeeds him > > terribly.) Algae disks? And will he be as "dirty" as the snail? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The > > only one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a > > betta would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an inch > > and a half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta > > in a 10 gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the > > surface to get air. > > > > > They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, but I > > did lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a > > body, either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the dead > > body). > > > > > DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, > > but they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank > > that will fit in their mouth. > > > > > Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african > > clawed frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed > > frogs are very aggressive. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail recently > > passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just > > misses the companionship. Really! > > > > > > > > > > > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what if I > > got her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail > > was a bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as > > snails? Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? > > (I've never had a frog before...) > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49345	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Well at least you know what happened to your betta, LOL. I came back from being away from home for 6 days and my betta was MIA. When I asked hubby what happened to the betta; he said, "It's gone?" LOL. Amber On 10/26/2010 6:49 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed > to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was > too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed > Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish > themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- > especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally > who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai > breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I'm going to get a few more DAF/ADF's this weekend myself, I think > my solo one would like some frog-mates. I may get another betta for > the tank or not, I haven't decided yet. I suppose it will depend on if > they have any pretty crowntail bettas out at the LFS. > > > > Amber > > > > On 10/25/2010 5:27 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > Wow, that was a lot of info, Amber! Thanks! > > > > > > I spoke with Mom and she said she likes the idea of another snail > > > better, even if they do dirty up the tank. She is worried that her > > > Betta will be too much of a bully (he is pretty macho) for a frog. > "At > > > least the snail has a shell for protection." > > > > > > Bren is dashing off to the pet shop for frogs. And I'll dash off for > > > another snail. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > Mine seems to prefer carnivore sinking pellets (or something > meaty), > > > but they will eat leftover betta food too. They are not very dirty > > > that I can tell, in fact I have NEVER seen my DAF even poop, LOL. I'm > > > sure it does, but it seems to prefer privacy when it goes ;) LOL. The > > > DAF's seem to be more of a "I'll eat what I can find, when I get > > > around to finding it" type of critter. Mine will stay inactive > sitting > > > on a plant for quite awhile then suddenly go looking for food or > go up > > > for air. They do more sitting around than swimming, but they give the > > > betta something to display for now and then ;). My betta would leave > > > my DAF alone most of the time, except when he actually noticed the > > > frog was there, then he'd go up and display for him a little then > swim > > > off. Otherwise they ignore each other most of the time. It adds a > > > little activity to your betta tank at least. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how much room DAF's require, I will do a quick google > > > search. Looks like 1 gallon per frog minimum, so you should be okay > > > with 1 frog and a betta in your 2.5 gallon bowl. Temp range is 75-82F > > > and pH of 6.5-7.5. I kept my frog in a 10 gallon unheated tank for > > > over a year with room temps around 75-78F, so you should be fine as > > > long as it's near 75F. > > > > > > > > Here is a cut and paste from the wikipedia on african frogs > > > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dwarf_frog): > > > > > > > > ADF's (or also known as DAF's) are compatible with most bottom > > > feeders and algae eaters. Respectful tropical fish can also be > used as > > > tank mates although aggressive fish will often fight or injure the > > > frogs. As African dwarf frogs are slow eaters it is not uncommon for > > > tank-mates to eat all the food while the frogs go hungry. If this > > > becomes a problem, methods of delivering the food directly to the > > > bottom of the tank (such as with a turkey baster) should be employed > > > to ensure the frogs are adequately fed. > > > > > > > > African dwarf frogs do not have teeth > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth>, so they swallow their food > whole. > > > > Common foods include blood worms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_worm>, brine shrimp, water fleas > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_flea> (daphnia), shrimp > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrimp>, and various brands of > > > commercial frog food. These frogs will also eat mosquito > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito> larvae > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva>, black worms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_worm>, guppy fry, glassworms, > > > tadpole bites, reptomin, gammarus, dried krill, baby shrimp, frozen > > > beefheart, small fish, and small earthworms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworm>. On rare occasions these > > > frogs will eat water snails <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail> and > > > brittle shells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seashell>. African dwarf > > > frogs are bottom-feeders <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom-feeder> > > > and are rarely seen eating at the surface of the water. > > > > > > > > Care should be taken when handling African Dwarf frogs, especially > > > when considering them as a pet for young children. These frogs should > > > never be held outside the tank, both for the safety of the frog > and as > > > they may be carriers for Salmonella. (end quote) > > > > > > > > Hope that helps :) > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber! :o) > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure Mom's tank is a 2.5g bow. It's "just a bowl" with > > > no aeration and only natural/room light. Nothing electrical (no more > > > outlets available.) I made a clear plexi lid for it (yes, with an > > > air/food hole) instead of the opaque monstrosity it came with. There > > > is a table lamp nearby for light. There is a live potted (in a glass) > > > amazon sword but no substrate in the tank itself. > > > > > > > > > > What does the DAF eat? Leftover Betta food? (Cos Mom overfeeds > him > > > terribly.) Algae disks? And will he be as "dirty" as the snail? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The > > > only one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a > > > betta would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an > inch > > > and a half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta > > > in a 10 gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the > > > surface to get air. > > > > > > They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, > but I > > > did lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a > > > body, either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the > dead > > > body). > > > > > > DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, > > > but they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank > > > that will fit in their mouth. > > > > > > Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african > > > clawed frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed > > > frogs are very aggressive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail > recently > > > passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just > > > misses the companionship. Really! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what > if I > > > got her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail > > > was a bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as > > > snails? Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? > > > (I've never had a frog before...) > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49346	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/26/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Oh and I forgot to say something. The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. Amber On 10/26/2010 6:49 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed > to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was > too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed > Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish > themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- > especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally > who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai > breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I'm going to get a few more DAF/ADF's this weekend myself, I think > my solo one would like some frog-mates. I may get another betta for > the tank or not, I haven't decided yet. I suppose it will depend on if > they have any pretty crowntail bettas out at the LFS. > > > > Amber > > > > On 10/25/2010 5:27 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > Wow, that was a lot of info, Amber! Thanks! > > > > > > I spoke with Mom and she said she likes the idea of another snail > > > better, even if they do dirty up the tank. She is worried that her > > > Betta will be too much of a bully (he is pretty macho) for a frog. > "At > > > least the snail has a shell for protection." > > > > > > Bren is dashing off to the pet shop for frogs. And I'll dash off for > > > another snail. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > Mine seems to prefer carnivore sinking pellets (or something > meaty), > > > but they will eat leftover betta food too. They are not very dirty > > > that I can tell, in fact I have NEVER seen my DAF even poop, LOL. I'm > > > sure it does, but it seems to prefer privacy when it goes ;) LOL. The > > > DAF's seem to be more of a "I'll eat what I can find, when I get > > > around to finding it" type of critter. Mine will stay inactive > sitting > > > on a plant for quite awhile then suddenly go looking for food or > go up > > > for air. They do more sitting around than swimming, but they give the > > > betta something to display for now and then ;). My betta would leave > > > my DAF alone most of the time, except when he actually noticed the > > > frog was there, then he'd go up and display for him a little then > swim > > > off. Otherwise they ignore each other most of the time. It adds a > > > little activity to your betta tank at least. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how much room DAF's require, I will do a quick google > > > search. Looks like 1 gallon per frog minimum, so you should be okay > > > with 1 frog and a betta in your 2.5 gallon bowl. Temp range is 75-82F > > > and pH of 6.5-7.5. I kept my frog in a 10 gallon unheated tank for > > > over a year with room temps around 75-78F, so you should be fine as > > > long as it's near 75F. > > > > > > > > Here is a cut and paste from the wikipedia on african frogs > > > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dwarf_frog): > > > > > > > > ADF's (or also known as DAF's) are compatible with most bottom > > > feeders and algae eaters. Respectful tropical fish can also be > used as > > > tank mates although aggressive fish will often fight or injure the > > > frogs. As African dwarf frogs are slow eaters it is not uncommon for > > > tank-mates to eat all the food while the frogs go hungry. If this > > > becomes a problem, methods of delivering the food directly to the > > > bottom of the tank (such as with a turkey baster) should be employed > > > to ensure the frogs are adequately fed. > > > > > > > > African dwarf frogs do not have teeth > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth>, so they swallow their food > whole. > > > > Common foods include blood worms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_worm>, brine shrimp, water fleas > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_flea> (daphnia), shrimp > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrimp>, and various brands of > > > commercial frog food. These frogs will also eat mosquito > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito> larvae > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva>, black worms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_worm>, guppy fry, glassworms, > > > tadpole bites, reptomin, gammarus, dried krill, baby shrimp, frozen > > > beefheart, small fish, and small earthworms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworm>. On rare occasions these > > > frogs will eat water snails <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail> and > > > brittle shells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seashell>. African dwarf > > > frogs are bottom-feeders <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom-feeder> > > > and are rarely seen eating at the surface of the water. > > > > > > > > Care should be taken when handling African Dwarf frogs, especially > > > when considering them as a pet for young children. These frogs should > > > never be held outside the tank, both for the safety of the frog > and as > > > they may be carriers for Salmonella. (end quote) > > > > > > > > Hope that helps :) > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber! :o) > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure Mom's tank is a 2.5g bow. It's "just a bowl" with > > > no aeration and only natural/room light. Nothing electrical (no more > > > outlets available.) I made a clear plexi lid for it (yes, with an > > > air/food hole) instead of the opaque monstrosity it came with. There > > > is a table lamp nearby for light. There is a live potted (in a glass) > > > amazon sword but no substrate in the tank itself. > > > > > > > > > > What does the DAF eat? Leftover Betta food? (Cos Mom overfeeds > him > > > terribly.) Algae disks? And will he be as "dirty" as the snail? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The > > > only one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a > > > betta would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an > inch > > > and a half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta > > > in a 10 gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the > > > surface to get air. > > > > > > They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, > but I > > > did lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a > > > body, either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the > dead > > > body). > > > > > > DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, > > > but they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank > > > that will fit in their mouth. > > > > > > Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african > > > clawed frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed > > > frogs are very aggressive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail > recently > > > passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just > > > misses the companionship. Really! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what > if I > > > got her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail > > > was a bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as > > > snails? Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? > > > (I've never had a frog before...) > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49347	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Hi Amber, I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:37 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions Oh and I forgot to say something. The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. Amber On 10/26/2010 6:49 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed > to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was > too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed > Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish > themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- > especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally > who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai > breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I'm going to get a few more DAF/ADF's this weekend myself, I think > my solo one would like some frog-mates. I may get another betta for > the tank or not, I haven't decided yet. I suppose it will depend on if > they have any pretty crowntail bettas out at the LFS. > > > > Amber > > > > On 10/25/2010 5:27 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > Wow, that was a lot of info, Amber! Thanks! > > > > > > I spoke with Mom and she said she likes the idea of another snail > > > better, even if they do dirty up the tank. She is worried that her > > > Betta will be too much of a bully (he is pretty macho) for a frog. > "At > > > least the snail has a shell for protection." > > > > > > Bren is dashing off to the pet shop for frogs. And I'll dash off for > > > another snail. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > Mine seems to prefer carnivore sinking pellets (or something > meaty), > > > but they will eat leftover betta food too. They are not very dirty > > > that I can tell, in fact I have NEVER seen my DAF even poop, LOL. I'm > > > sure it does, but it seems to prefer privacy when it goes ;) LOL. The > > > DAF's seem to be more of a "I'll eat what I can find, when I get > > > around to finding it" type of critter. Mine will stay inactive > sitting > > > on a plant for quite awhile then suddenly go looking for food or > go up > > > for air. They do more sitting around than swimming, but they give the > > > betta something to display for now and then ;). My betta would leave > > > my DAF alone most of the time, except when he actually noticed the > > > frog was there, then he'd go up and display for him a little then > swim > > > off. Otherwise they ignore each other most of the time. It adds a > > > little activity to your betta tank at least. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how much room DAF's require, I will do a quick google > > > search. Looks like 1 gallon per frog minimum, so you should be okay > > > with 1 frog and a betta in your 2.5 gallon bowl. Temp range is 75-82F > > > and pH of 6.5-7.5. I kept my frog in a 10 gallon unheated tank for > > > over a year with room temps around 75-78F, so you should be fine as > > > long as it's near 75F. > > > > > > > > Here is a cut and paste from the wikipedia on african frogs > > > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dwarf_frog): > > > > > > > > ADF's (or also known as DAF's) are compatible with most bottom > > > feeders and algae eaters. Respectful tropical fish can also be > used as > > > tank mates although aggressive fish will often fight or injure the > > > frogs. As African dwarf frogs are slow eaters it is not uncommon for > > > tank-mates to eat all the food while the frogs go hungry. If this > > > becomes a problem, methods of delivering the food directly to the > > > bottom of the tank (such as with a turkey baster) should be employed > > > to ensure the frogs are adequately fed. > > > > > > > > African dwarf frogs do not have teeth > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth>, so they swallow their food > whole. > > > > Common foods include blood worms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_worm>, brine shrimp, water fleas > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_flea> (daphnia), shrimp > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrimp>, and various brands of > > > commercial frog food. These frogs will also eat mosquito > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito> larvae > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva>, black worms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_worm>, guppy fry, glassworms, > > > tadpole bites, reptomin, gammarus, dried krill, baby shrimp, frozen > > > beefheart, small fish, and small earthworms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworm>. On rare occasions these > > > frogs will eat water snails <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail> and > > > brittle shells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seashell>. African dwarf > > > frogs are bottom-feeders <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom-feeder> > > > and are rarely seen eating at the surface of the water. > > > > > > > > Care should be taken when handling African Dwarf frogs, especially > > > when considering them as a pet for young children. These frogs should > > > never be held outside the tank, both for the safety of the frog > and as > > > they may be carriers for Salmonella. (end quote) > > > > > > > > Hope that helps :) > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber! :o) > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure Mom's tank is a 2.5g bow. It's "just a bowl" with > > > no aeration and only natural/room light. Nothing electrical (no more > > > outlets available.) I made a clear plexi lid for it (yes, with an > > > air/food hole) instead of the opaque monstrosity it came with. There > > > is a table lamp nearby for light. There is a live potted (in a glass) > > > amazon sword but no substrate in the tank itself. > > > > > > > > > > What does the DAF eat? Leftover Betta food? (Cos Mom overfeeds > him > > > terribly.) Algae disks? And will he be as "dirty" as the snail? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The > > > only one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a > > > betta would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an > inch > > > and a half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta > > > in a 10 gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the > > > surface to get air. > > > > > > They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, > but I > > > did lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a > > > body, either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the > dead > > > body). > > > > > > DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, > > > but they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank > > > that will fit in their mouth. > > > > > > Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african > > > clawed frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed > > > frogs are very aggressive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail > recently > > > passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just > > > misses the companionship. Really! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what > if I > > > got her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail > > > was a bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as > > > snails? Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? > > > (I've never had a frog before...) > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49348	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. ~Kai > Mike wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > -Mike > > > Amber wrote > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > ~Kai > > SNIPPED

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49349	From: William M	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > ~Kai > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > ~Kai > > > > > SNIPPED >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49350	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Kai, I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:46 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. ~Kai > Mike wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > -Mike > > > Amber wrote > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > ~Kai > > SNIPPED

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49351	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Mike and William M, I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts. I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns. So they have their markets. But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them. I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. I'm not a breeder. I don't show them. But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. ~Kai > Mike wrote: > > Kai, > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > -Mike > > > William M wrote: > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > ~Kai > > > Mike wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > ~Kai > > > > > SNIPPED >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49352	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

"I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. ~Kai"   Hi Kai------------Not A Breeder?  Well why not!  It's very obvious that you enjoy these fish and also enjoy keeping them.  Next logical step?  Why not bred your own? You know how to care for them and it sure sounds like you know proper quality fish when you see them??????????????????????????    What's the hold up?  Time to get busy girl!   Good hearing from you again,   Bill --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 3:13 PM Mike and William M, I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts.  I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns.  So they have their markets. But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them.  I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. ~Kai > Mike wrote: > > Kai, > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow".  I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > -Mike > > > William M wrote: > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > -----Original Message----- > > Kai wrote: > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > ~Kai > > > Mike wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > ~Kai > > > > > SNIPPED > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49353	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

If I still lived in/near a big city, I probably would. I doubt there are many like me here in the boonies -- so there wouldn't be enough demand to pay off. Nearly all of the IBC chapters within a 100 mile radius of me have folded. And to become yet another seller on Aquabid... I'm sure I'm not the only one who refuses to pay that kind of $$ for shipping -- and has issues with traumatizing the fish during transport. ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > "I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > ~Kai" >   > Hi Kai------------Not A Breeder?  Well why not!  It's very obvious that you enjoy these fish and also enjoy keeping them.  Next logical step?  Why not bred your own? > You know how to care for them and it sure sounds like you know proper quality fish when you see them??????????????????????????  >   > What's the hold up?  Time to get busy girl! >   > Good hearing from you again, >   > Bill > > Kai wrote: > > Mike and William M, > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts.  I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns.  So they have their markets. > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them.  I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. > > I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > ~Kai > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > Kai, > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow".  I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > ~Kai > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49354	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

I just thought you should know that an aggressive tank cleaning will not cause a betta to get dropsy. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > ~Kai > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > I'm going to get a few more DAF/ADF's this weekend myself, I think my solo one would like some frog-mates. I may get another betta for the tank or not, I haven't decided yet. I suppose it will depend on if they have any pretty crowntail bettas out at the LFS. > > > > Amber > > > > On 10/25/2010 5:27 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > Wow, that was a lot of info, Amber! Thanks! > > > > > > I spoke with Mom and she said she likes the idea of another snail > > > better, even if they do dirty up the tank. She is worried that her > > > Betta will be too much of a bully (he is pretty macho) for a frog. "At > > > least the snail has a shell for protection." > > > > > > Bren is dashing off to the pet shop for frogs. And I'll dash off for > > > another snail. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > Mine seems to prefer carnivore sinking pellets (or something meaty), > > > but they will eat leftover betta food too. They are not very dirty > > > that I can tell, in fact I have NEVER seen my DAF even poop, LOL. I'm > > > sure it does, but it seems to prefer privacy when it goes ;) LOL. The > > > DAF's seem to be more of a "I'll eat what I can find, when I get > > > around to finding it" type of critter. Mine will stay inactive sitting > > > on a plant for quite awhile then suddenly go looking for food or go up > > > for air. They do more sitting around than swimming, but they give the > > > betta something to display for now and then ;). My betta would leave > > > my DAF alone most of the time, except when he actually noticed the > > > frog was there, then he'd go up and display for him a little then swim > > > off. Otherwise they ignore each other most of the time. It adds a > > > little activity to your betta tank at least. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure how much room DAF's require, I will do a quick google > > > search. Looks like 1 gallon per frog minimum, so you should be okay > > > with 1 frog and a betta in your 2.5 gallon bowl. Temp range is 75-82F > > > and pH of 6.5-7.5. I kept my frog in a 10 gallon unheated tank for > > > over a year with room temps around 75-78F, so you should be fine as > > > long as it's near 75F. > > > > > > > > Here is a cut and paste from the wikipedia on african frogs > > > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_dwarf_frog): > > > > > > > > ADF's (or also known as DAF's) are compatible with most bottom > > > feeders and algae eaters. Respectful tropical fish can also be used as > > > tank mates although aggressive fish will often fight or injure the > > > frogs. As African dwarf frogs are slow eaters it is not uncommon for > > > tank-mates to eat all the food while the frogs go hungry. If this > > > becomes a problem, methods of delivering the food directly to the > > > bottom of the tank (such as with a turkey baster) should be employed > > > to ensure the frogs are adequately fed. > > > > > > > > African dwarf frogs do not have teeth > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth>, so they swallow their food whole. > > > > Common foods include blood worms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_worm>, brine shrimp, water fleas > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_flea> (daphnia), shrimp > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrimp>, and various brands of > > > commercial frog food. These frogs will also eat mosquito > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito> larvae > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larva>, black worms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_worm>, guppy fry, glassworms, > > > tadpole bites, reptomin, gammarus, dried krill, baby shrimp, frozen > > > beefheart, small fish, and small earthworms > > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthworm>. On rare occasions these > > > frogs will eat water snails <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail> and > > > brittle shells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seashell>. African dwarf > > > frogs are bottom-feeders <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom-feeder> > > > and are rarely seen eating at the surface of the water. > > > > > > > > Care should be taken when handling African Dwarf frogs, especially > > > when considering them as a pet for young children. These frogs should > > > never be held outside the tank, both for the safety of the frog and as > > > they may be carriers for Salmonella. (end quote) > > > > > > > > Hope that helps :) > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Amber! :o) > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure Mom's tank is a 2.5g bow. It's "just a bowl" with > > > no aeration and only natural/room light. Nothing electrical (no more > > > outlets available.) I made a clear plexi lid for it (yes, with an > > > air/food hole) instead of the opaque monstrosity it came with. There > > > is a table lamp nearby for light. There is a live potted (in a glass) > > > amazon sword but no substrate in the tank itself. > > > > > > > > > > What does the DAF eat? Leftover Betta food? (Cos Mom overfeeds him > > > terribly.) Algae disks? And will he be as "dirty" as the snail? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How big of a container will you be putting the frog into? The > > > only one off the top of my head that would fit into a bowl with a > > > betta would be the DAF (dwarf african frog), they get to about an inch > > > and a half in size when they are mature. I have kept a DAF and betta > > > in a 10 gallon tank together successfully. The DAF will go to the > > > surface to get air. > > > > > > They are easy to care for, I've had no issues with my DAF, but I > > > did lose my betta last month when I went out of town (never found a > > > body, either the betta jumped out of the tank or the frog ate the dead > > > body). > > > > > > DAF's are not aggressive so you can keep them with fish safely, > > > but they will eat "leftovers" if they find a dead fish in your tank > > > that will fit in their mouth. > > > > > > Make sure you get the dwarf african frog, and not the african > > > clawed frog, there is a big size difference and the african clawed > > > frogs are very aggressive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mom's Betta had a snail for a companion but the snail recently > > > passed. The Betta has been moping. Physically, he's fine. He just > > > misses the companionship. Really! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Haecklers" questions about frogs got me thinking... what if I > > > got her Betta a FROG buddy instead of another snail? (Cos the snail > > > was a bit of an Oscar Madison tank-mate.) Are frogs as "dirty" as > > > snails? Can the two coexist well? Does the frog have special needs? > > > (I've never had a frog before...) > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49355	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

You're points are well taken BUT_------------------------------------------------- Consider yourself?  How else are you going to have good quality and healthily fish?  Now how do I know all of that?   Sitting down here in the same boat only I'm working with Angelfish.  Now who has good quality Angelfish around here? No-body --------------------------yet?  We're workin' on it! And how knows?  There may be some folks just like you who would like some Betta's but don't!  Why?  There ain't none around! Think about it.  Breeders are a different lot than regular hobbyist and they do it for different reasons, some are not just profit but rather the love of a certain type of fish.  Just ask Ray Wetzel on this group and his Angelfish and he's been doing it for years.   Bill   --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:21 PM If I still lived in/near a big city, I probably would.  I doubt there are many like me here in the boonies -- so there wouldn't be enough demand to pay off.  Nearly all of the IBC chapters within a 100 mile radius of me have folded.  And to become yet another seller on Aquabid...  I'm sure I'm not the only one who refuses to pay that kind of $$ for shipping -- and has issues with traumatizing the fish during transport. ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > "I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > ~Kai" >   > Hi Kai------------Not A Breeder?  Well why not!  It's very obvious that you enjoy these fish and also enjoy keeping them.  Next logical step?  Why not bred your own? > You know how to care for them and it sure sounds like you know proper quality fish when you see them??????????????????????????  >   > What's the hold up?  Time to get busy girl! >   > Good hearing from you again, >   > Bill > > Kai wrote: > > Mike and William M, > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts.  I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns.  So they have their markets. > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them.  I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. > > I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > ~Kai > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > Kai, > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow".  I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > ~Kai > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49356	From: haecklers	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions - bettas

Around here (Southeastern PA) the chain pet stores have had some gorgeous bettas. They don't seem to feed them, and if you buy some and then get them on live or frozen food you'll get to see them color up and grow an extra 1/4" or more on their fins. Some of ours have doubled in size. It's not always the breeding that makes them look so bad, just the conditions! They are cold, hungry, bored, and living in their own filth. But you could try putting a "want ad" on craigslist asking for some betta fry to raise, if there is a local breeder they may contact you. I got some really nice bristlenose catfish that way. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Mike and William M, > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts. I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns. So they have their markets. > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them. I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. > > I'm not a breeder. I don't show them. But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > ~Kai > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > Kai, > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > ~Kai > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49357	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

It was the coup de gras in a long string of errors that caused it. > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" wrote: > > I just thought you should know that an aggressive tank cleaning will not cause a betta to get dropsy. > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > SNIPPED

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49358	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

So what do you propose I do with all those fry? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > You're points are well taken BUT_------------------------------------------------- > Consider yourself?  How else are you going to have good > quality and healthily fish?  Now how do I know all of that? >   > Sitting down here in the same boat only I'm working with > Angelfish.  Now who has good quality Angelfish around here? > No-body --------------------------yet?  We're workin' on it! > > And how knows?  There may be some folks just like you who > would like some Betta's but don't!  Why?  There ain't none around! > Think about it.  Breeders are a different lot than regular hobbyist and > they do it for different reasons, some are not just profit but rather the > love of a certain type of fish.  Just ask Ray Wetzel on this group and his > Angelfish and he's been doing it for years. >   > Bill >   > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:21 PM > > > If I still lived in/near a big city, I probably would.  I doubt there are many like me here in the boonies -- so there wouldn't be enough demand to pay off.  Nearly all of the IBC chapters within a 100 mile radius of me have folded.  And to become yet another seller on Aquabid...  I'm sure I'm not the only one who refuses to pay that kind of $$ for shipping -- and has issues with traumatizing the fish during transport. > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > "I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > ~Kai" > >   > > Hi Kai------------Not A Breeder?  Well why not!  It's very obvious that you enjoy these fish and also enjoy keeping them.  Next logical step?  Why not bred your own? > > You know how to care for them and it sure sounds like you know proper quality fish when you see them??????????????????????????  > >   > > What's the hold up?  Time to get busy girl! > >   > > Good hearing from you again, > >   > > Bill > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Mike and William M, > > > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts.  I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns.  So they have their markets. > > > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them.  I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. > > > > I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow".  I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49359	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions - bettas

Bad conditions are another opera altogether. I'm talking about bad breeding. They really could and should be BETTER fish. There are no local breeders. And if I were to pay to have a fish shipped, I'd spring the extra pesos for a really good (not quite show quality) fish. Here in Northeastern PA, the area is called Poco-tucky for a reason. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > Around here (Southeastern PA) the chain pet stores have had some gorgeous bettas. They don't seem to feed them, and if you buy some and then get them on live or frozen food you'll get to see them color up and grow an extra 1/4" or more on their fins. Some of ours have doubled in size. > > It's not always the breeding that makes them look so bad, just the conditions! They are cold, hungry, bored, and living in their own filth. > > But you could try putting a "want ad" on craigslist asking for some betta fry to raise, if there is a local breeder they may contact you. I got some really nice bristlenose catfish that way. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Mike and William M, > > > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts. I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns. So they have their markets. > > > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them. I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. > > > > I'm not a breeder. I don't show them. But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49360	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

A cull fish. Some thing that will take care of unhealthy or unwanted fry. One medium to large cichlid can usually do the task. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 2:24 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions So what do you propose I do with all those fry? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > You're points are well taken BUT_------------------------------------------------- > Consider yourself?  How else are you going to have good > quality and healthily fish?  Now how do I know all of that? >   > Sitting down here in the same boat only I'm working with > Angelfish.  Now who has good quality Angelfish around here? > No-body --------------------------yet?  We're workin' on it! > > And how knows?  There may be some folks just like you who > would like some Betta's but don't!  Why?  There ain't none around! > Think about it.  Breeders are a different lot than regular hobbyist and > they do it for different reasons, some are not just profit but rather the > love of a certain type of fish.  Just ask Ray Wetzel on this group and his > Angelfish and he's been doing it for years. >   > Bill >   > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:21 PM > > > If I still lived in/near a big city, I probably would.  I doubt there are many like me here in the boonies -- so there wouldn't be enough demand to pay off.  Nearly all of the IBC chapters within a 100 mile radius of me have folded.  And to become yet another seller on Aquabid...  I'm sure I'm not the only one who refuses to pay that kind of $$ for shipping -- and has issues with traumatizing the fish during transport. > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > "I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > ~Kai" > >   > > Hi Kai------------Not A Breeder?  Well why not!  It's very obvious that you enjoy these fish and also enjoy keeping them.  Next logical step?  Why not bred your own? > > You know how to care for them and it sure sounds like you know proper quality fish when you see them??????????????????????????  > >   > > What's the hold up?  Time to get busy girl! > >   > > Good hearing from you again, > >   > > Bill > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Mike and William M, > > > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts.  I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns.  So they have their markets. > > > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them.  I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. > > > > I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow".  I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49361	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Now Kai,   You heard what Mike just told you:  "A cull fish. Some thing that will take care of unhealthy or unwanted fry. One medium to large cichlid can usually do the task.  -Mike"   What Mike is trying to say or teach you is this.  In breeding fish, it's the same as with anything else, nobody hits a home run each and every time.  Mis-shaped bodies, missing scales or gills plates, deformed fins, you name it.  These are all things that you must learn to spot and so remove.  Although some may say that Mikes method is crude, it is the truth nonetheless and done quite often.   Usually by a hobbyist who has one, especially if they have been in the hobby a while, fish that is a size!  Colors beyond belief and unfortunately a temper and personality toward other fish not to be believed either, it has become a true pet to him.  Still the hobbyist loves the fish, has even gone as far as to give him his own tank, and so guess who gets any unwanted fry?  BINGO!   Just try, and above all else, give yourself a chance.  You may find that you not only may have a knack for breeding these fish but may also find yet another facet of the hobby that you will enjoy even more that just keeping fish themselves.   Bill --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 5:24 PM So what do you propose I do with all those fry? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > You're points are well taken BUT_------------------------------------------------- > Consider yourself?  How else are you going to have good > quality and healthily fish?  Now how do I know all of that? >   > Sitting down here in the same boat only I'm working with > Angelfish.  Now who has good quality Angelfish around here? > No-body --------------------------yet?  We're workin' on it! > > And how knows?  There may be some folks just like you who > would like some Betta's but don't!  Why?  There ain't none around! > Think about it.  Breeders are a different lot than regular hobbyist and > they do it for different reasons, some are not just profit but rather the > love of a certain type of fish.  Just ask Ray Wetzel on this group and his > Angelfish and he's been doing it for years. >   > Bill >   > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:21 PM > > > If I still lived in/near a big city, I probably would.  I doubt there are many like me here in the boonies -- so there wouldn't be enough demand to pay off.  Nearly all of the IBC chapters within a 100 mile radius of me have folded.  And to become yet another seller on Aquabid...  I'm sure I'm not the only one who refuses to pay that kind of $$ for shipping -- and has issues with traumatizing the fish during transport. > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > "I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > ~Kai" > >   > > Hi Kai------------Not A Breeder?  Well why not!  It's very obvious that you enjoy these fish and also enjoy keeping them.  Next logical step?  Why not bred your own? > > You know how to care for them and it sure sounds like you know proper quality fish when you see them??????????????????????????  > >   > > What's the hold up?  Time to get busy girl! > >   > > Good hearing from you again, > >   > > Bill > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Mike and William M, > > > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts.  I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns.  So they have their markets. > > > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them.  I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. > > > > I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow".  I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49362	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Kai, We do not see a lot of fish through retail channels for a few reasons. One is that Americans are cheap, they do not want to pay the price that some Europeans will as well as Asians. Those areas get the good fish. There are also a lot of fish that do make it into the country, but never make it to the retailers, and it is not because they are dying from the handling and stress of shipment or some disease along the way. You also have distribution patterns to deal with as well. The "good" fish that may be more expensive will go to places where they sell. Another factor that has come into play is the big box pet stores. Decisions on purchasing are not made by the local stores (at one time they did have some local autonomy in choosing fish, but that now seems to be gone) but they are made by some corporate toady who may not know anything about fish or the real market, just so long as they sell. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 11:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. ~Kai > Mike wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > -Mike > > > Amber wrote > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > ~Kai > > SNIPPED

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49363	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Thanks, everyone, but I DO NOT want to breed fish. All I said was that the selection here is crappy and that there are no local breeders. Therefore I cannot get a "good" fish without having it shipped to me, something I'd rather not put a fish through. I lamented that I "can't" get good fish and remarked that fish quality -- even through (maybe especially through) big box pet shops could and should be better. That's all. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Now Kai, >   > You heard what Mike just told you:  "A cull fish. Some thing that will take care of unhealthy or unwanted fry. One medium to large cichlid can usually do the task.  -Mike" >   > What Mike is trying to say or teach you is this.  In breeding fish, it's the same as with anything else, nobody hits a home run each and every time.  Mis-shaped bodies, missing scales or gills plates, deformed fins, you name it.  These are all things that you must learn to spot and so remove.  Although some may say that Mikes method is crude, it is the truth nonetheless and done quite often. >   > Usually by a hobbyist who has one, especially if they have been in the hobby a while, fish that is a size!  Colors beyond belief and unfortunately a temper and personality toward other fish not to be believed either, it has become a true pet to him.  Still the hobbyist loves the fish, has even gone as far as to give him his own tank, and so guess who gets any unwanted fry?  BINGO! >   > Just try, and above all else, give yourself a chance.  You may find that you not only may have a knack for breeding these fish but may also find yet another facet of the hobby that you will enjoy even more that just keeping fish themselves. >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 5:24 PM > > > So what do you propose I do with all those fry? > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > You're points are well taken BUT_------------------------------------------------- > > Consider yourself?  How else are you going to have good > > quality and healthily fish?  Now how do I know all of that? > >   > > Sitting down here in the same boat only I'm working with > > Angelfish.  Now who has good quality Angelfish around here? > > No-body --------------------------yet?  We're workin' on it! > > > > And how knows?  There may be some folks just like you who > > would like some Betta's but don't!  Why?  There ain't none around! > > Think about it.  Breeders are a different lot than regular hobbyist and > > they do it for different reasons, some are not just profit but rather the > > love of a certain type of fish.  Just ask Ray Wetzel on this group and his > > Angelfish and he's been doing it for years. > >   > > Bill > >   > > > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:21 PM > > > > > > If I still lived in/near a big city, I probably would.  I doubt there are many like me here in the boonies -- so there wouldn't be enough demand to pay off.  Nearly all of the IBC chapters within a 100 mile radius of me have folded.  And to become yet another seller on Aquabid...  I'm sure I'm not the only one who refuses to pay that kind of $$ for shipping -- and has issues with traumatizing the fish during transport. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > "I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > > ~Kai" > > >   > > > Hi Kai------------Not A Breeder?  Well why not!  It's very obvious that you enjoy these fish and also enjoy keeping them.  Next logical step?  Why not bred your own? > > > You know how to care for them and it sure sounds like you know proper quality fish when you see them??????????????????????????  > > >   > > > What's the hold up?  Time to get busy girl! > > >   > > > Good hearing from you again, > > >   > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Mike and William M, > > > > > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts.  I understand that most are bought by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns.  So they have their markets. > > > > > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for them.  I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS quality. > > > > > > I'm not a breeder.  I don't show them.  But as Amber said, the selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, not so "wow".  I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better colors, better fins, better patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49364	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Just be prepared to get rid of excess fry. My mystery snails only breed in ONE of my tanks... so therefor there's a boatload of them in just that tank. It's pretty much just for my snails. I love mystery snails though, so I find it hard to cull them. Therefor I have a friend come over who takes all my adult mystery snails (after several have laid new eggs), and he cooks and eats them. Win/win situation for everyone. I don't have to kill them myself and he gets a free dinner, LOL. The hard part is knowing you're killing them if you feed them to another fish/person, once you get over that part the rest is easy. Amber On 10/27/2010 3:13 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > Now Kai, > > You heard what Mike just told you: "A cull fish. Some thing that will > take care of unhealthy or unwanted fry. One medium to large cichlid > can usually do the task. -Mike" > > What Mike is trying to say or teach you is this. In breeding fish, > it's the same as with anything else, nobody hits a home run each and > every time. Mis-shaped bodies, missing scales or gills plates, > deformed fins, you name it. These are all things that you must learn > to spot and so remove. Although some may say that Mikes method is > crude, it is the truth nonetheless and done quite often. > > Usually by a hobbyist who has one, especially if they have been in the > hobby a while, fish that is a size! Colors beyond belief and > unfortunately a temper and personality toward other fish not to be > believed either, it has become a true pet to him. Still the hobbyist > loves the fish, has even gone as far as to give him his own tank, and > so guess who gets any unwanted fry? BINGO! > > Just try, and above all else, give yourself a chance. You may find > that you not only may have a knack for breeding these fish but may > also find yet another facet of the hobby that you will enjoy even more > that just keeping fish themselves. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@... > <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 5:24 PM > > So what do you propose I do with all those fry? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > You're points are well taken > BUT_------------------------------------------------- > > Consider yourself? How else are you going to have good > > quality and healthily fish? Now how do I know all of that? > > > > Sitting down here in the same boat only I'm working with > > Angelfish. Now who has good quality Angelfish around here? > > No-body --------------------------yet? We're workin' on it! > > > > And how knows? There may be some folks just like you who > > would like some Betta's but don't! Why? There ain't none around! > > Think about it. Breeders are a different lot than regular hobbyist and > > they do it for different reasons, some are not just profit but > rather the > > love of a certain type of fish. Just ask Ray Wetzel on this group > and his > > Angelfish and he's been doing it for years. > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:21 PM > > > > > > If I still lived in/near a big city, I probably would. I doubt there > are many like me here in the boonies -- so there wouldn't be enough > demand to pay off. Nearly all of the IBC chapters within a 100 mile > radius of me have folded. And to become yet another seller on > Aquabid... I'm sure I'm not the only one who refuses to pay that kind > of $$ for shipping -- and has issues with traumatizing the fish during > transport. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > "I'm not a breeder. I don't show them. But as Amber said, the > selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > > ~Kai" > > > > > > Hi Kai------------Not A Breeder? Well why not! It's very obvious > that you enjoy these fish and also enjoy keeping them. Next logical > step? Why not bred your own? > > > You know how to care for them and it sure sounds like you know > proper quality fish when you see them?????????????????????????? > > > > > > What's the hold up? Time to get busy girl! > > > > > > Good hearing from you again, > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Mike and William M, > > > > > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the LFSs > have the same ill-bred mutts. I understand that most are bought by > Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to > ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns. So they have > their markets. > > > > > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and > appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra > bucks for them. I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer > better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that > aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS > quality. > > > > > > I'm not a breeder. I don't show them. But as Amber said, the > selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting > their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them > from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so > pretty ones, not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need > to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet > grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade > Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. > There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant > selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and > raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the > money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either > located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from > there are noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better > patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled > lace. OMG, gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from > Fantastic Four. And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my > breath away. (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to > breed.) > > > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming > from "over there." > > > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's > available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results > in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial > breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the > Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some > outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are > gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything > I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel > betta's, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning > that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and > Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while > the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the > shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I > know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US > and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are > spectacular. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49365	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Are people actually seeing these wow bettas from Thailand or are we all going by the photos? I have been told by importers that there is no end of dirty dealing that goes on with these Thai exporters and that the pictures do not represent the fish that are actually sent. I have heard multiple horror stories along these lines. If people are actually seeing great imported stock, that's one thing, but to go by the photos, I think that's another thing entirely. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 27, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Deenerz@... wrote: > Kai, > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their > Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the > same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, > not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for > it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:46 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located > in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are > noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. > There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, > gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. > And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I > understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from > "over there." > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and > (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a > couple > of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply > LFSs don't have better quality fish. > ~Kai > > > Mike wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta > breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish > the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and > I am > often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever > seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, > LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I > *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour > developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish > themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- > especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally > who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai > breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are > spectacular. > > > ~Kai > > > > > SNIPPED > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49366	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Well I can agree with you there (about quality at LFS). My LFS gets their bettas from one shipper, and they don't get to pick what they get. I usually go in and ask the employee what betta's appear the most active/healthy and she will point out those ones to me. That's the best I get unless I order 1 betta off of aquabid, LOL. I've been drooling over some of the Thai ones myself, and I'm not hesitant at all to spend 15-20 dollars for a good looking/gorgeous betta, I just wonder how much the shipping would be and if it'd be worth it in the long run. Maybe I'll start breeding betta's for my LFS ;) If I do start breeding them I'm gonna need some sort of divided tank for them after they grow up. I'm also gonna have to do some more research on their breeding habits, LOL. Shipping fish is not too stressful, it's the acclimating from the bag water parameters to your tank's parameters that's the most stressful part. The bag water slowly changes in pH and such, so the fish have time to acclimate to the water. I have not lost one single fish to shipping, but I've lost a few to acclimating too fast, something I learned the hard way last year (don't be in a hurry, if you don't have several hours to spend on acclimating them properly then leave the fish in the box/bags/sealed until you do). I'll let you know if I ever start breeding Betta's Kai :) Though it might be cheaper to get them from a breeder closer to you than I am (Alaska), LOL. Amber On 10/27/2010 4:52 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Thanks, everyone, but I DO NOT want to breed fish. > > All I said was that the selection here is crappy and that there are no > local breeders. Therefore I cannot get a "good" fish without having it > shipped to me, something I'd rather not put a fish through. > > I lamented that I "can't" get good fish and remarked that fish quality > -- even through (maybe especially through) big box pet shops could and > should be better. That's all. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > Now Kai, > > > > You heard what Mike just told you: "A cull fish. Some thing that > will take care of unhealthy or unwanted fry. One medium to large > cichlid can usually do the task. -Mike" > > > > What Mike is trying to say or teach you is this. In breeding fish, > it's the same as with anything else, nobody hits a home run each and > every time. Mis-shaped bodies, missing scales or gills plates, > deformed fins, you name it. These are all things that you must learn > to spot and so remove. Although some may say that Mikes method is > crude, it is the truth nonetheless and done quite often. > > > > Usually by a hobbyist who has one, especially if they have been in > the hobby a while, fish that is a size! Colors beyond belief and > unfortunately a temper and personality toward other fish not to be > believed either, it has become a true pet to him. Still the hobbyist > loves the fish, has even gone as far as to give him his own tank, and > so guess who gets any unwanted fry? BINGO! > > > > Just try, and above all else, give yourself a chance. You may find > that you not only may have a knack for breeding these fish but may > also find yet another facet of the hobby that you will enjoy even more > that just keeping fish themselves. > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 5:24 PM > > > > > > So what do you propose I do with all those fry? > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > You're points are well taken > BUT_------------------------------------------------- > > > Consider yourself? How else are you going to have good > > > quality and healthily fish? Now how do I know all of that? > > > > > > Sitting down here in the same boat only I'm working with > > > Angelfish. Now who has good quality Angelfish around here? > > > No-body --------------------------yet? We're workin' on it! > > > > > > And how knows? There may be some folks just like you who > > > would like some Betta's but don't! Why? There ain't none around! > > > Think about it. Breeders are a different lot than regular hobbyist and > > > they do it for different reasons, some are not just profit but > rather the > > > love of a certain type of fish. Just ask Ray Wetzel on this group > and his > > > Angelfish and he's been doing it for years. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:21 PM > > > > > > > > > If I still lived in/near a big city, I probably would. I doubt > there are many like me here in the boonies -- so there wouldn't be > enough demand to pay off. Nearly all of the IBC chapters within a 100 > mile radius of me have folded. And to become yet another seller on > Aquabid... I'm sure I'm not the only one who refuses to pay that kind > of $$ for shipping -- and has issues with traumatizing the fish during > transport. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > "I'm not a breeder. I don't show them. But as Amber said, the > selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > > > ~Kai" > > > > > > > > Hi Kai------------Not A Breeder? Well why not! It's very obvious > that you enjoy these fish and also enjoy keeping them. Next logical > step? Why not bred your own? > > > > You know how to care for them and it sure sounds like you know > proper quality fish when you see them?????????????????????????? > > > > > > > > What's the hold up? Time to get busy girl! > > > > > > > > Good hearing from you again, > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Mike and William M, > > > > > > > > I'm not looking to pay $3 for show quality Bettas but all the > LFSs have the same ill-bred mutts. I understand that most are bought > by Moms for little kids -- and that many of them don't survive due to > ignorance about their care and abuse by the young'uns. So they have > their markets. > > > > > > > > But I'm sure there are many others like me who recognize and > appreciate BETTER Bettas -- and who wouldn't mind paying a few extra > bucks for them. I would gladly up that to $7-8-9 if they would offer > better quality -- for example the less expensive ones on Aquabid that > aren't good enough to be shown or bred, but still much better than LFS > quality. > > > > > > > > I'm not a breeder. I don't show them. But as Amber said, the > selection from LFSs really is BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting > their Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them > from the same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so > pretty ones, not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need > to pay for it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William M wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In my opinion, the breeders of Bettas will sell their "pet > grade" Bettas to pet shops or wholesalers and then take the show grade > Bettas to sell at higher prices or even to keep for future breeding. > There are not many show quality Bettas out of each spawning to warrant > selling them at pet shop prices. It is labor intensive to breed and > raise many spawns of Bettas and they are trying to recoup some of the > money so that they can keep breeding show quality Bettas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either > located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from > there are noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better > patterns. There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled > lace. OMG, gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from > Fantastic Four. And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my > breath away. (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to > breed.) > > > > > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor > coming from "over there." > > > > > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's > available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results > in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial > breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the > Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some > outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are > gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything > I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel > betta's, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning > that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and > Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while > the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the > shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I > know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US > and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are > spectacular. > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49367	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

All I want is a purple betta and I'll be happy, LOL. I don't care where it comes from ;) And I've never seen a Thai betta in person, only photos, so I can't judge how they look in person. Amber On 10/27/2010 4:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Are people actually seeing these wow bettas from Thailand or are we > all going by the photos? I have been told by importers that there is > no end of dirty dealing that goes on with these Thai exporters and > that the pictures do not represent the fish that are actually sent. I > have heard multiple horror stories along these lines. > > If people are actually seeing great imported stock, that's one thing, > but to go by the photos, I think that's another thing entirely. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 27, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Deenerz@... > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > Kai, > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their > > Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the > > same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, > > not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for > > it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > -Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:46 am > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located > > in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are > > noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. > > There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, > > gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. > > And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I > > understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from > > "over there." > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and > > (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a > > couple > > of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply > > LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > ~Kai > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta > > breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish > > the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and > > I am > > often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever > > seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, > > LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I > > *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour > > developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish > > themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- > > especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally > > who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai > > breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are > > spectacular. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49368	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Amber - I don't want to make you sad, but I have a purple betta! Lord Jeffrey:) I think he cost three dollars at one of my LFS. Nothing Thai about the little guy, but he sure is a looker. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > All I want is a purple betta and I'll be happy, LOL. I don't care > where > it comes from ;) > And I've never seen a Thai betta in person, only photos, so I can't > judge how they look in person. > > Amber > > On 10/27/2010 4:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > Are people actually seeing these wow bettas from Thailand or are we > > all going by the photos? I have been told by importers that there is > > no end of dirty dealing that goes on with these Thai exporters and > > that the pictures do not represent the fish that are actually > sent. I > > have heard multiple horror stories along these lines. > > > > If people are actually seeing great imported stock, that's one > thing, > > but to go by the photos, I think that's another thing entirely. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 27, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Deenerz@... > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their > > > Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them > from the > > > same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty > ones, > > > not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay > for > > > it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:46 am > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either > located > > > in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from > there are > > > noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. > > > There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. > OMG, > > > gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic > Four. > > > And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. > (If I > > > understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming > from > > > "over there." > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's > available and > > > (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a > > > couple > > > of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that > supply > > > LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the > Betta > > > breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some > outstanding fish > > > the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and > > > I am > > > often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything > I've ever > > > seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel > betta's, > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning > that I > > > *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour > > > developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while > the fish > > > themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the > shipping -- > > > especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know > locally > > > who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US > and Thai > > > breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are > > > spectacular. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49369	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Well you suck, LOL. I had one 2 years ago that had purple on him, he developed dropsy and died though, nothing I did seemed to help him :( I was really bummed when I lost him. If I ever find male and female betta's with purple (even just a smidge) at my LFS, I'm so buying them ;) There are some pretty ones on aquabid that have purple but they're from Thai sellers and I don't want to buy from overseas. I was considering contacting www.petzonesd.com (they are in california), they state they have a great selection of bettas (and other tropical fish). I'm curious if they have any purple crown tails. (I might settle for another type like the deltas/super deltas, but I really like the crown tails best). I plan on checking my LFS this weekend before I make any decisions on having one shipped in. If I order from someone it's going to be a place that has other fish available so I can combine the fish order and pay only one shipping cost. Amber On 10/27/2010 5:14 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > Amber - > > I don't want to make you sad, but I have a purple betta! Lord Jeffrey:) > > I think he cost three dollars at one of my LFS. Nothing Thai about > the little guy, but he sure is a looker. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Amber Berglund wrote: > > > All I want is a purple betta and I'll be happy, LOL. I don't care > > where > > it comes from ;) > > And I've never seen a Thai betta in person, only photos, so I can't > > judge how they look in person. > > > > Amber > > > > On 10/27/2010 4:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > > > Are people actually seeing these wow bettas from Thailand or are we > > > all going by the photos? I have been told by importers that there is > > > no end of dirty dealing that goes on with these Thai exporters and > > > that the pictures do not represent the fish that are actually > > sent. I > > > have heard multiple horror stories along these lines. > > > > > > If people are actually seeing great imported stock, that's one > > thing, > > > but to go by the photos, I think that's another thing entirely. > > > > > > Lainey > > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > > > On Oct 27, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Deenerz@... > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> > > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their > > > > Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them > > from the > > > > same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty > > ones, > > > > not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay > > for > > > > it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com> > <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:46 am > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either > > located > > > > in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from > > there are > > > > noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. > > > > There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. > > OMG, > > > > gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic > > Four. > > > > And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. > > (If I > > > > understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming > > from > > > > "over there." > > > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's > > available and > > > > (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a > > > > couple > > > > of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that > > supply > > > > LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the > > Betta > > > > breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some > > outstanding fish > > > > the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and > > > > I am > > > > often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything > > I've ever > > > > seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel > > betta's, > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning > > that I > > > > *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour > > > > developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while > > the fish > > > > themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the > > shipping -- > > > > especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know > > locally > > > > who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US > > and Thai > > > > breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are > > > > spectacular. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49370	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/27/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Hi Kai,   Never worked with Betta's but my Mom did as well as the neighbor lady next door to us.  Of course, this took place back in the 1950's. I enjoyed your last paragraph:   "And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish".   But I can tell you this from working many years with Discus, you don't really believe it's all that easy________do you? <g>   Bill --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 11:46 AM I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better colors, better fins, better patterns.  There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." ~Kai > Mike wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > -Mike > > > Amber wrote > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > ~Kai > > SNIPPED ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49371	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Contact this guy and ask if he has others: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/closed.cgi?view_closed_item&fwbettasct1287541958 ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > All I want is a purple betta and I'll be happy, LOL. I don't care where > it comes from ;) > And I've never seen a Thai betta in person, only photos, so I can't > judge how they look in person. > > Amber > > On 10/27/2010 4:59 PM, Lainey Alexander wrote: > > > > Are people actually seeing these wow bettas from Thailand or are we > > all going by the photos? I have been told by importers that there is > > no end of dirty dealing that goes on with these Thai exporters and > > that the pictures do not represent the fish that are actually sent. I > > have heard multiple horror stories along these lines. > > > > If people are actually seeing great imported stock, that's one thing, > > but to go by the photos, I think that's another thing entirely. > > > > Lainey > > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > > > On Oct 27, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Deenerz@... > > <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > I have been to the wholesalers and many of them are getting their > > > Bettas from "over there". So we are essentially getting them from the > > > same source just the wholesalers are getting the not so pretty ones, > > > not so "wow". I guess to get the wow factor ones we need to pay for > > > it, not the usually 3 buck bettas. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <mailto:kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:46 am > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located > > > in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are > > > noticeably better. Better colors, better fins, better patterns. > > > There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace. OMG, > > > gorgeous. Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four. > > > And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away. (If I > > > understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > > > Those from US breeders are nice. But lack the WOW factor coming from > > > "over there." > > > > > > And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and > > > (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a > > > couple > > > of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply > > > LFSs don't have better quality fish. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta > > > breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish > > > the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and > > > I am > > > often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever > > > seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and > > > embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I > > > *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour > > > developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish > > > themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- > > > especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally > > > who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai > > > breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are > > > spectacular. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49372	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Depends what you're starting with, Bill. Of course $3 LFS stock will not magically produce show quality fish in a couple of generations. But indiscriminate breeding will not improve the situation. If I were a commercial breeder, a small investment in better breeding stock would yield me higher quality fish for which I could charge a higher price. The overhead is the same whether I'm raising crappy fish or better ones, so why wouldn't I want to try to create higher priced better ones? It's obvious that the commercial breeders that supply the LFSs don't even try... ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Hi Kai, >   > Never worked with Betta's but my Mom did as well as > the neighbor lady next door to us.  Of course, this took place back > in the 1950's. I enjoyed your last paragraph: >   > "And with all the information about Betta genetics that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't have better quality fish". >   > But I can tell you this from working many years with Discus, you don't really believe it's all that easy________do you? <g> >   > Bill > > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 11:46 AM > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better colors, better fins, better patterns.  There's one on there now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid black is VERY hard to breed.) > > Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW factor coming from "over there." > > ~Kai > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > ~Kai > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49373	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

You are very right but then consider also the "Y" of it.  You just named the recognized problem and also a cure.  Now "Y" isn't it done?   Money out lay for sure, extra work too BUT, maybe also lack of demand!  If they can, and obviously do, get away with selling junk, why spend the extra time and money if the people will buy what you have, never mind the condition of it!   In this day and age, no one can stay in business for too long without tuning a profit.  If their sales were to drop, they would do something and in a hurry!   Bill --- On Thu, 10/28/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 9:29 AM > Depends what you're starting with, > Bill.  Of course $3 LFS stock will not magically > produce show quality fish in a couple of generations.  > But indiscriminate breeding will not improve the situation. > > If I were a commercial breeder, a small investment in > better breeding stock would yield me higher quality fish for > which I could charge a higher price.  The overhead is > the same whether I'm raising crappy fish or better ones, so > why wouldn't I want to try to create higher priced better > ones?  It's obvious that the commercial breeders that > supply the LFSs don't even try... > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Kai, > >   > > Never worked with Betta's but my Mom did as well as > > the neighbor lady next door to us.  Of course, this > took place back > > in the 1950's.  I enjoyed your last paragraph: > >   > > "And with all the information about Betta genetics > that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to > get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't > understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't > have better quality fish". > >   > > But I can tell you this from working many years with > Discus, you don't really believe it's all that > easy________do you? <g> > >   > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 10/27/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > wrote: > > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog > Questions > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 11:46 AM > > > > > > I've been drooling on aquabid lately and those that > are either located in southeast Asia or say that they have > been imported from there are noticeably better.  Better > colors, better fins, better patterns.  There's one on there > now with fins that look like ruffled lace.  OMG, > gorgeous.  Another's scales look like The Thing from > Fantastic Four.  And there's a velvet black crowntail that > takes my breath away.  (If I understand correctly, solid > black is VERY hard to breed.) > > > > Those from US breeders are nice.  But lack the WOW > factor coming from "over there." > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Mike wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > I am not knocking anything coming in from > Thailand, but the Betta breeders in my local clubs have been > bringing in some outstanding fish the last couple years. The > usual "ho hum" females are gorgeous and I am often tempted > to buy a bunch of them for a planted tank. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote > > > > > > Oh and I forgot to say something. > > > The Thai bred fish are so spectacular compared to > anything I've ever seen in my LFS. I think we're getting > bottom of the barrel betta's, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Sigh, crowntails. I love crowntails. > > > > > > > > I'm in the market for one myself cos (I'm > heartbroken and embarrassed to admit this) I killed mine > with a tank cleaning that I *KNEW* was too aggressive but I > did it anyway. Poor Sweet and Sour developed Dropsy as a > result. I'm still kicking myself. > > > > > > > > I'm drooling at fancy ones from breeders > online and while the fish themselves aren't too expensive, I > just refuse to pay the shipping -- especially for just one > fish. Too bad I'm the only one I know locally who keeps > Bettas or we could combine an order. > > > > > > > > And is it just me or is the quality > difference between US and Thai breeders significant? US fish > are very nice but Thai fish are spectacular. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & > ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49374	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

I am originally from the NYC metro area -- the land of retail! When we moved here to the boonies, shopping was sparse. The only all-purpose department store was chock full of crappy merchandise. I needed a new pair of shoes and their selection was almost all made of "Manmade Materials" for $15-ish. I reminisced about "back home" and how several shoe store chains had nothing but leather shoes -- prix fixe at $19.99. I would gladly have paid an extra few bucks for leather. (And did my shopping when I'd go back home to visit friends/family.) Apparently others thought the same because those $15-ish plastic shoes languished on their shelves. They'd eventually get marked down and marked down and marked down until they became worth their price at $5-ish a pair. What did the store manager deduce? Not that customers would pay more for better quality -- but that they wanted cheap crappy $5 plastic shoes. So that's what they stocked. Cheaper, crappier shoes -- not better quality that customers wanted. I think the same has happened with Bettas. Customers are willing to pay $3 at their LFS because that's all the fish are worth. It's not what customers want but it's all they've got. ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > You are very right but then consider also the "Y" of it.  You just > named the recognized problem and also a cure.  Now "Y" isn't it > done? >   > Money out lay for sure, extra work too BUT, maybe also lack of > demand!  If they can, and obviously do, get away with selling junk, > why spend the extra time and money if the people will buy what you > have, never mind the condition of it! >   > In this day and age, no one can stay in business for too long > without tuning a profit.  If their sales were to drop, they would > do something and in a hurry! >   > Bill > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Depends what you're starting with, > > Bill.  Of course $3 LFS stock will not magically > > produce show quality fish in a couple of generations.  > > But indiscriminate breeding will not improve the situation. > > > > If I were a commercial breeder, a small investment in > > better breeding stock would yield me higher quality fish for > > which I could charge a higher price.  The overhead is > > the same whether I'm raising crappy fish or better ones, so > > why wouldn't I want to try to create higher priced better > > ones?  It's obvious that the commercial breeders that > > supply the LFSs don't even try... > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Kai, > > >   > > > Never worked with Betta's but my Mom did as well as > > > the neighbor lady next door to us.  Of course, this > > took place back > > > in the 1950's.  I enjoyed your last paragraph: > > >   > > > "And with all the information about Betta genetics > > that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to > > get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't > > understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't > > have better quality fish". > > >   > > > But I can tell you this from working many years with > > Discus, you don't really believe it's all that > > easy________do you? <g> > > >   > > > Bill > > > > > > SNIPPED

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49375	From: William M	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

It could also be that that is all that the wholesaler is offering. There may mot be the demand of the higher quality fish that the discriminating customer wants. Most customers think that the $3 Bettas are really good and they do not wish to pay anything more for a "disposable fish". ?Supp;;y and demand dictates that the wholesaler gets in the cheapest fish as possible to have the highest profit possible. For the few discriminating customers that want quality fish, it may not be worth it to bring in just a few of the better quality fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I am originally from the NYC metro area -- the land of retail! When we moved here to the boonies, shopping was sparse. The only all-purpose department store was chock full of crappy merchandise. I needed a new pair of shoes and their selection was almost all made of "Manmade Materials" for $15-ish. I reminisced about "back home" and how several shoe store chains had nothing but leather shoes -- prix fixe at $19.99. I would gladly have paid an extra few bucks for leather. (And did my shopping when I'd go back home to visit friends/family.) > > Apparently others thought the same because those $15-ish plastic shoes languished on their shelves. They'd eventually get marked down and marked down and marked down until they became worth their price at $5-ish a pair. > > What did the store manager deduce? Not that customers would pay more for better quality -- but that they wanted cheap crappy $5 plastic shoes. So that's what they stocked. Cheaper, crappier shoes -- not better quality that customers wanted. > > I think the same has happened with Bettas. Customers are willing to pay $3 at their LFS because that's all the fish are worth. It's not what customers want but it's all they've got. > ~Kai > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > You are very right but then consider also the "Y" of it.  You just > > named the recognized problem and also a cure.  Now "Y" isn't it > > done? > >   > > Money out lay for sure, extra work too BUT, maybe also lack of > > demand!  If they can, and obviously do, get away with selling junk, > > why spend the extra time and money if the people will buy what you > > have, never mind the condition of it! > >   > > In this day and age, no one can stay in business for too long > > without tuning a profit.  If their sales were to drop, they would > > do something and in a hurry! > >   > > Bill > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Depends what you're starting with, > > > Bill.  Of course $3 LFS stock will not magically > > > produce show quality fish in a couple of generations.  > > > But indiscriminate breeding will not improve the situation. > > > > > > If I were a commercial breeder, a small investment in > > > better breeding stock would yield me higher quality fish for > > > which I could charge a higher price.  The overhead is > > > the same whether I'm raising crappy fish or better ones, so > > > why wouldn't I want to try to create higher priced better > > > ones?  It's obvious that the commercial breeders that > > > supply the LFSs don't even try... > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Kai, > > > >   > > > > Never worked with Betta's but my Mom did as well as > > > > the neighbor lady next door to us.  Of course, this > > > took place back > > > > in the 1950's.  I enjoyed your last paragraph: > > > >   > > > > "And with all the information about Betta genetics > > > that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to > > > get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't > > > understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't > > > have better quality fish". > > > >   > > > > But I can tell you this from working many years with > > > Discus, you don't really believe it's all that > > > easy________do you? <g> > > > >   > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49376	From: john Lewis	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

Hello:    I think the real problem is that the stores carry what they know they can sell and Thirty to fifty dollar plus Bettas would probably sit in most stores.  It's also a matter of availability.  For the most part stores buy from farms and maybe supplement 5% or so from customer's spawns.  The farms usually stay away from high priced fish that might sit.  When you add all that together you get a reality of why high priced, line-bred fish rarely hit the stores.    One other thing also contributes is that fish breeders sell to everyone at basically the same price so how can a store buy from them and have to charge even more for a fish than the breeder gets for the same animal.  It's a vicious cycle.  The icing on the cake is that many of the breeders don't contact stores to offer young fish anyway.  They sell them online, word-of-mouth, and through other channels, bypassing the LFS altogether.  Bottom line; if one wants top quality like bred fish, find a breeder.  Otherwise, buy the nicest $3.00 fish you can find and create your own lines, eventually producing a nice lineage yourself.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 10:30:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions   I am originally from the NYC metro area -- the land of retail! When we moved here to the boonies, shopping was sparse. The only all-purpose department store was chock full of crappy merchandise. I needed a new pair of shoes and their selection was almost all made of "Manmade Materials" for $15-ish. I reminisced about "back home" and how several shoe store chains had nothing but leather shoes -- prix fixe at $19.99. I would gladly have paid an extra few bucks for leather. (And did my shopping when I'd go back home to visit friends/family.) Apparently others thought the same because those $15-ish plastic shoes languished on their shelves. They'd eventually get marked down and marked down and marked down until they became worth their price at $5-ish a pair. What did the store manager deduce? Not that customers would pay more for better quality -- but that they wanted cheap crappy $5 plastic shoes. So that's what they stocked. Cheaper, crappier shoes -- not better quality that customers wanted. I think the same has happened with Bettas. Customers are willing to pay $3 at their LFS because that's all the fish are worth. It's not what customers want but it's all they've got. ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > You are very right but then consider also the "Y" of it.  You just > named the recognized problem and also a cure.  Now "Y" isn't it > done? >   > Money out lay for sure, extra work too BUT, maybe also lack of > demand!  If they can, and obviously do, get away with selling junk, > why spend the extra time and money if the people will buy what you > have, never mind the condition of it! >   > In this day and age, no one can stay in business for too long > without tuning a profit.  If their sales were to drop, they would > do something and in a hurry! >   > Bill > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Depends what you're starting with, > > Bill.  Of course $3 LFS stock will not magically > > produce show quality fish in a couple of generations.  > > But indiscriminate breeding will not improve the situation. > > > > If I were a commercial breeder, a small investment in > > better breeding stock would yield me higher quality fish for > > which I could charge a higher price.  The overhead is > > the same whether I'm raising crappy fish or better ones, so > > why wouldn't I want to try to create higher priced better > > ones?  It's obvious that the commercial breeders that > > supply the LFSs don't even try... > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Kai, > > >   > > > Never worked with Betta's but my Mom did as well as > > > the neighbor lady next door to us.  Of course, this > > took place back > > > in the 1950's.  I enjoyed your last paragraph: > > >   > > > "And with all the information about Betta genetics > > that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to > > get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't > > understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't > > have better quality fish". > > >   > > > But I can tell you this from working many years with > > Discus, you don't really believe it's all that > > easy________do you? <g> > > >   > > > Bill > > > > > > SNIPPED [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49377	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

As I originally said, I'm not looking for breeder or near-show quality fish that would command $30-50. Looking on Aquabid, there are plenty of really nice Bettas in the under $15 range that I would rather pay in person at my LFS than add $35 shipping and torture the fish in transit. As I keep repeating, it looks like commercial breeders aren't even trying to produce half-way decent Bettas. There is no reason for ALL of the LFS stock to be of such POOR quality. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> wrote: > >        Hello: >    I think the real problem is that the stores carry what they know they can > sell and Thirty to fifty dollar plus Bettas would probably sit in most stores.  > It's also a matter of availability.  For the most part stores buy from farms and > maybe supplement 5% or so from customer's spawns.  The farms usually stay away > from high priced fish that might sit.  When you add all that together you get a > reality of why high priced, line-bred fish rarely hit the stores. >    One other thing also contributes is that fish breeders sell to everyone at > basically the same price so how can a store buy from them and have to charge > even more for a fish than the breeder gets for the same animal.  It's a vicious > cycle.  The icing on the cake is that many of the breeders don't contact stores > to offer young fish anyway.  They sell them online, word-of-mouth, and through > other channels, bypassing the LFS altogether.  Bottom line; if one wants top > quality like bred fish, find a breeder.  Otherwise, buy the nicest $3.00 fish > you can find and create your own lines, eventually producing a nice lineage > yourself. >    Have a Great Day!!! >    Spawn > > > > > ________________________________ > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 10:30:14 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > >   > I am originally from the NYC metro area -- the land of retail! When we moved > here to the boonies, shopping was sparse. The only all-purpose department store > was chock full of crappy merchandise. I needed a new pair of shoes and their > selection was almost all made of "Manmade Materials" for $15-ish. I reminisced > about "back home" and how several shoe store chains had nothing but leather > shoes -- prix fixe at $19.99. I would gladly have paid an extra few bucks for > leather. (And did my shopping when I'd go back home to visit friends/family.) > > Apparently others thought the same because those $15-ish plastic shoes > languished on their shelves. They'd eventually get marked down and marked down > and marked down until they became worth their price at $5-ish a pair. > > What did the store manager deduce? Not that customers would pay more for better > quality -- but that they wanted cheap crappy $5 plastic shoes. So that's what > they stocked. Cheaper, crappier shoes -- not better quality that customers > wanted. > > I think the same has happened with Bettas. Customers are willing to pay $3 at > their LFS because that's all the fish are worth. It's not what customers want > but it's all they've got. > ~Kai > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > You are very right but then consider also the "Y" of it.  You just > > named the recognized problem and also a cure.  Now "Y" isn't it > > done? > >   > > Money out lay for sure, extra work too BUT, maybe also lack of > > demand!  If they can, and obviously do, get away with selling junk, > > why spend the extra time and money if the people will buy what you > > have, never mind the condition of it! > >   > > In this day and age, no one can stay in business for too long > > without tuning a profit.  If their sales were to drop, they would > > do something and in a hurry! > >   > > Bill > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Depends what you're starting with, > > > Bill.  Of course $3 LFS stock will not magically > > > produce show quality fish in a couple of generations.  > > > But indiscriminate breeding will not improve the situation. > > > > > > If I were a commercial breeder, a small investment in > > > better breeding stock would yield me higher quality fish for > > > which I could charge a higher price.  The overhead is > > > the same whether I'm raising crappy fish or better ones, so > > > why wouldn't I want to try to create higher priced better > > > ones?  It's obvious that the commercial breeders that > > > supply the LFSs don't even try... > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Kai, > > > >   > > > > Never worked with Betta's but my Mom did as well as > > > > the neighbor lady next door to us.  Of course, this > > > took place back > > > > in the 1950's.  I enjoyed your last paragraph: > > > >   > > > > "And with all the information about Betta genetics > > > that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to > > > get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't > > > understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't > > > have better quality fish". > > > >   > > > > But I can tell you this from working many years with > > > Discus, you don't really believe it's all that > > > easy________do you? <g> > > > >   > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49378	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Completely Different Frog Questions

I've gotten a hold of a breeder for betta's (they imported from thailand and already acclimated them he kept a few to breed them, and is selling the rest), I have at least 1 (purple!) betta picked out, I'm negotiating a 2nd one (I'm not sure hubby will pay $40 for him, but he sure is gorgeous!), and fortunately for me he is willing to ship on my fedex account number so my shipping shouldn't be more than 25-30 dollars. I don't mind having fish shipped in myself, but I fully understand why you don't want to do it. The only reason why I'm not so hesitant is because I've had good success getting the fish here alive and healthy in just 1 day transit time, and I know I'm getting a good quality fish, unlike my LFS (half the time their fish are sick with something, but at least they refuse to sell the sick fish until their healthy!). Good luck on your search Kai, if I get to breeding these giant bettas in the future I'll let you know when I have babies :) And I'll post lots of pics, LOL. Now I just need to find some giant females to go with these giant males. I've picked out a purple halfmoon plakat, and a red/blue halfmoon plakat (the $40 one), he unfortunately already sold his 2 giant females and is keeping the other 2 for himself. These guys are 3 times bigger than normal sized betta's, can't wait to see them in person, they look gorgeous in pictures. Amber On 10/28/2010 2:00 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > As I originally said, I'm not looking for breeder or near-show quality > fish that would command $30-50. Looking on Aquabid, there are plenty > of really nice Bettas in the under $15 range that I would rather pay > in person at my LFS than add $35 shipping and torture the fish in transit. > > As I keep repeating, it looks like commercial breeders aren't even > trying to produce half-way decent Bettas. There is no reason for ALL > of the LFS stock to be of such POOR quality. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, john Lewis > <creatureproductions@...> wrote: > > > >       Hello: > >   I think the real problem is that the stores carry what they know > they can > > sell and Thirty to fifty dollar plus Bettas would probably sit in > most stores. > > It's also a matter of availability. For the most part stores buy > from farms and > > maybe supplement 5% or so from customer's spawns. The farms usually > stay away > > from high priced fish that might sit. When you add all that > together you get a > > reality of why high priced, line-bred fish rarely hit the stores. > >   One other thing also contributes is that fish breeders sell to > everyone at > > basically the same price so how can a store buy from them and have > to charge > > even more for a fish than the breeder gets for the same animal. > It's a vicious > > cycle. The icing on the cake is that many of the breeders don't > contact stores > > to offer young fish anyway. They sell them online, word-of-mouth, > and through > > other channels, bypassing the LFS altogether. Bottom line; if one > wants top > > quality like bred fish, find a breeder. Otherwise, buy the nicest > $3.00 fish > > you can find and create your own lines, eventually producing a nice > lineage > > yourself. > >   Have a Great Day!!! > >   Spawn > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 10:30:14 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Completely Different Frog Questions > > > >  > > I am originally from the NYC metro area -- the land of retail! When > we moved > > here to the boonies, shopping was sparse. The only all-purpose > department store > > was chock full of crappy merchandise. I needed a new pair of shoes > and their > > selection was almost all made of "Manmade Materials" for $15-ish. I > reminisced > > about "back home" and how several shoe store chains had nothing but > leather > > shoes -- prix fixe at $19.99. I would gladly have paid an extra few > bucks for > > leather. (And did my shopping when I'd go back home to visit > friends/family.) > > > > Apparently others thought the same because those $15-ish plastic shoes > > languished on their shelves. They'd eventually get marked down and > marked down > > and marked down until they became worth their price at $5-ish a pair. > > > > What did the store manager deduce? Not that customers would pay more > for better > > quality -- but that they wanted cheap crappy $5 plastic shoes. So > that's what > > they stocked. Cheaper, crappier shoes -- not better quality that > customers > > wanted. > > > > I think the same has happened with Bettas. Customers are willing to > pay $3 at > > their LFS because that's all the fish are worth. It's not what > customers want > > but it's all they've got. > > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > You are very right but then consider also the "Y" of it. You just > > > named the recognized problem and also a cure. Now "Y" isn't it > > > done? > > >  > > > Money out lay for sure, extra work too BUT, maybe also lack of > > > demand! If they can, and obviously do, get away with selling junk, > > > why spend the extra time and money if the people will buy what you > > > have, never mind the condition of it! > > >  > > > In this day and age, no one can stay in business for too long > > > without tuning a profit. If their sales were to drop, they would > > > do something and in a hurry! > > >  > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Depends what you're starting with, > > > > Bill. Of course $3 LFS stock will not magically > > > > produce show quality fish in a couple of generations. > > > > But indiscriminate breeding will not improve the situation. > > > > > > > > If I were a commercial breeder, a small investment in > > > > better breeding stock would yield me higher quality fish for > > > > which I could charge a higher price. The overhead is > > > > the same whether I'm raising crappy fish or better ones, so > > > > why wouldn't I want to try to create higher priced better > > > > ones? It's obvious that the commercial breeders that > > > > supply the LFSs don't even try... > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kai, > > > > >  > > > > > Never worked with Betta's but my Mom did as well as > > > > > the neighbor lady next door to us. Of course, this > > > > took place back > > > > > in the 1950's. I enjoyed your last paragraph: > > > > >  > > > > > "And with all the information about Betta genetics > > > > that's available and (so I've been told) how easy it is to > > > > get good results in just a couple of generations, I don't > > > > understand why commercial breeders that supply LFSs don't > > > > have better quality fish". > > > > >  > > > > > But I can tell you this from working many years with > > > > Discus, you don't really believe it's all that > > > > easy________do you? <g> > > > > >  > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49379	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Breeder for etta's ?

Sorry folks!  I decided to start a new thread for this as I think it a valuable subject for all on group!   First of all, since I have never owned any Betta's but have stopped many times to just enjoy their beauty, I have some questions about them myself.   First, and I think the most important, just how many babies or fry will you get or expect to raise from a Betta's spawn?  Are they usually good parents to their fry?  Lot's of experience with Chiclids but they have larger spawn's, I do believe.   Anyone care to offer more comments on this subject?    Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49380	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/28/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?

Mis-spelling in Title-------sorry! Bill --- On Thu, 10/28/10, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeder for etta's ? > To: "AquaticLife" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 11:03 PM > Sorry folks!  I decided to start a > new thread for this as I think it > a valuable subject for all on group! >   > First of all, since I have never owned any Betta's but have > stopped > many times to just enjoy their beauty, I have some > questions about them myself. >   > First, and I think the most important, just how many babies > or fry will you get > or expect to raise from a Betta's spawn?  Are they usually > good parents to their > fry?  Lot's of experience with Chiclids but they have > larger spawn's, I do believe. >   > Anyone care to offer more comments on this subject?  >   > Bill > > >       > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49381	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?

Bill; Back in the day ( over 20 years ago) I tried my hand at breeding bettas and paradise fish (I refuse to call them gouramies). I recall betta fry were hard to raise, not because of their diminutive size, but because the little buggers were constantly fighting and sparring. Dad made a commendable job of keeping them in the bubble nest. And as soon as they started swimming and were big enough for brine shrimp the had to be separated, or the smaller fry were killed in the melee. Turkey basters are wonderful things to capture them with. My best success was breeding them in a 5 gallon aquarium with pea soup green water in a shaded porch during the summer. Mosquitoes kept volunteering their eggs and the water was dark enough for the female to hide. At one point I remember the female was tending a loaded bubble nest on one end and the male another at the opposite corner. Elodea was the only plant I used, no gravel. And I had buckets of mosquito larvae under trees to keep a constant supply of live food for the adults. Once separated the fry were hard to raise, mainly because I think they didnt like the lack of stimulus they got from the sparring, and would go off feed. If put in a 10 gallon aquarium under similar conditions as their birth tank only 3-4 would make it; they took care of their own culls. Survival of the meanest, if you will. At some point they would call a truce and no longer fight; they established a "pecking order" and would be good as a group. Which is why nowdays I keep a group in a 30 gallon, heavily planted. Right now I'm down to 3, but I want to add a crown betta, as soon as I have time to supervise that addition. Enid Sorry folks! I decided to start a new thread for this as I think it a valuable subject for all on group! First of all, since I have never owned any Betta's but have stopped many times to just enjoy their beauty, I have some questions about them myself. First, and I think the most important, just how many babies or fry will you get or expect to raise from a Betta's spawn? Are they usually good parents to their fry? Lot's of experience with Chiclids but they have larger spawn's, I do believe. Anyone care to offer more comments on this subject? Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49382	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?

http://www.flippersandfins.net/bettabreedingarticle.htm claims 471 (How did they count them all?) from the first attempt. But Enid didn't have such success so I guess it varies wildly. I guess it's a mix of luck and experience. ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Sorry folks!  I decided to start a new thread for this as I think it a valuable subject for all on group! >   > First of all, since I have never owned any Betta's but have stopped many times to just enjoy their beauty, I have some questions about them myself. >   > First, and I think the most important, just how many babies or fry will you get or expect to raise from a Betta's spawn?  Are they usually good parents to their fry?  Lot's of experience with Chiclids but they have larger spawn's, I do believe. >   > Anyone care to offer more comments on this subject?  >   > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49383	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Our Growing Betta Families

Oooooh, congratulations on finding fish that you are happy with, Amber! I hope you find mates for your new studs. Poking around on Aquabid, I could easily spend the (HA!) family fortune on the beautiful fish they offer for sale. I'd buy them all if I could. My Moo Shu looked purple in the store but here under my desk lamp's light is more of a light indigo or dark periwinkle. Definitely a lot more blue than purple. And in just a couple of weeks, his fins have grown to reveal that he is a spade tail -- a tail shape that faded away about 10 years ago so he's a bit of a throw-back. Spare Rib is my latest addition to replace Sweet and Sour. His fins are red and his body is a pale pinkish purple. I think some breeders are calling it "orchid." He has great color, but lousy fins. Raggedy. I always say it but I never actually do it... "Next fish" I'll bite the bullet and pay for shipping to get a GOOD Betta. Yeah, right. Sure I will. I'm glad you're living my dream, Amber! GO FOR IT!!! ~Kai > Amber wrote: > > I've gotten a hold of a breeder for betta's (they imported from thailand and already acclimated them he kept a few to breed them, and is selling the rest), I have at least 1 (purple!) betta picked out, I'm negotiating a 2nd one (I'm not sure hubby will pay $40 for him, but he sure is gorgeous!), and fortunately for me he is willing to ship on my fedex account number so my shipping shouldn't be more than 25-30 dollars. I don't mind having fish shipped in myself, but I fully understand why you don't want to do it. The only reason why I'm not so hesitant is because I've had good success getting the fish here alive and healthy in just 1 day transit time, and I know I'm getting a good quality fish, unlike my LFS (half the time their fish are sick with something, but at least they refuse to sell the sick fish until their healthy!). > Good luck on your search Kai, if I get to breeding these giant bettas in the future I'll let you know when I have babies :) And I'll post lots of pics, LOL. Now I just need to find some giant females to go with these giant males. > I've picked out a purple halfmoon plakat, and a red/blue halfmoon plakat (the $40 one), he unfortunately already sold his 2 giant females and is keeping the other 2 for himself. These guys are 3 times bigger than normal sized betta's, can't wait to see them in person, they look gorgeous in pictures. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49384	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?

To count a large volume of fish take a photo. Then take your time counting the fish. Less frustrating than trying to track them all zipping about. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2010 5:36 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breeder for Betta's ? http://www.flippersandfins.net/bettabreedingarticle.htm claims 471 (How did they count them all?) from the first attempt. But Enid didn't have such success so I guess it varies wildly. I guess it's a mix of luck and experience. ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Sorry folks!  I decided to start a new thread for this as I think it a valuable subject for all on group! >   > First of all, since I have never owned any Betta's but have stopped many times to just enjoy their beauty, I have some questions about them myself. >   > First, and I think the most important, just how many babies or fry will you get or expect to raise from a Betta's spawn?  Are they usually good parents to their fry?  Lot's of experience with Chiclids but they have larger spawn's, I do believe. >   > Anyone care to offer more comments on this subject?  >   > Bill >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49385	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?

My breeding experiences differ from those already mentioned. I spent about 6 yrs focused on betta breeding, starting simple with cheap fish I could afford, eventually working my way up closer to show quality as money allowed for it. I also have spent many yrs doing extensive research on betta splendens, from breeding to health issues. What got me started was seeing the number of unhealthy bettas coming into our store from the wholesalers and local breeders alike. As much as I love breeding these fish, time and space play a huge part, and I no longer have either available. One key to fry survival is the ability to separate them as young as possible, before the fighting begins. My ex hated my bettas because they were on every flat surface of my house for a long long time. I kept my fry in jars or bowls, each had its own. They were cleaned every day, fed 2 - 3 times/day according to age, and when I eventually had too many at a time I would take them to work and offer them to the store. Lack of an outlet for them became an issue later on, which also contributed to my stopping the breeding of them. Our store buys them wholesale, seldom from private breeders due to expense and lack of sales of the more expensive fish. The store always tries to keep a wide variety in quality, fin style, color, etc., however, the more expensive, "better" fish always sat on the shelf for such a long time that some would eventually die of old age (yes, we're talking a couple of yrs!). The staff was always fond of the store "pets" as we liked to think of them, but the store lost a lot of money on those fish. In order to sell them we had to make some kind of profit on them, so as was already pointed out, when people can get them for wholesale price somewhere else, why pay more? Besides the wholesale cost to us, there was also the expense of caring for them while they were in the store. Water, heat, food, and medications from time to time, it all costs money. It also costs the store money to pay someone to take care of them all on a daily basis. When a fish is in the store for a month vs a few days, the expense to the store increases quick, and drastically... which drives up the prices on the fish. There were many customers who would stop and admire the better quality fish, but it became common to hear the parents telling the kids "those are great, but you need to find one for under $5" or you'd hear the adults talk to each other and make comments like, "oh, I wish I could afford something like that, but not for a fish that only lives a few yrs" and just as often we'd hear comments about how people actually preferred the standard cheap $3 and $4 bettas. Over the years, the decision was made to scale back to stocking only the standard cheap bettas, it was business smart. From time to time we would get a request for a better quality fish, and if enough requests came within a given week, the boss would order 1 small shipment of them... but even on those occasions, there is a minimum order the store has to put in for them and we never sold all of what we ordered, which cost us money. It simply wasn't worth it. When I would take my fry to work, even the good quality fish, the boss would explain to me that they weren't worth much to him because people seemed to prefer the standard fish. If he couldn't sell my fish for the same low price, he didn't have space for them. I was usually lucky to get 35 cents each for them that way, but it was the only way I could get rid of a lot at once to make room for a new spawn. In response to Bill's questions, my spawns averaged 75 - 100 fry at a time, sometimes up to 150 at a time, depending on the parent fish. Most of the males were good parents, females tended to try to eat the eggs and newly hatched fry, so were removed as soon as the eggs were all in the nest. A few spawns had fathers who just decided one day to munch them all down while I was at work, but that was not typical. The hardest part I found in the 6 yrs or so that I bred and raised them, was finding enough space in the house to keep the fry separated at a young enough age and keeping up with the daily schedule it took to keep them clean and healthy all the time. The daily water changes were 100%, which actually made things a little easier. I had a bucket system worked out, similar to what we did at the store. It saved as much time as could be and still kept the fish in perfect condition, but none the less, it was for sure very time consuming. My few attempts (after listening to suggestions by local breeders) at keeping them all together in larger tanks were all disastrous. I would come home from work to find 1/4 of my population gone each day until only a few were left. Those were usually fish I kept for breeding because there was no money to be made in selling just a few. As for the bettas coming from Thailand via internet/Aquabid... I have never personally ordered anything. One of my coworkers tried hard to get a hold of a few show bettas via Aquabid, but all he ever ended up with was dead fish arriving at his doorstep. I watched him spend paycheck after paycheck, trying with different sellers, all from Thailand. After a few months of this and being too broke to do it again, he gave up. After watching his ordeal, I didn't even bother to try. Another coworker tried and received a fish that looked nothing like the photograph in the ad online, and ended up paying $40 for a fish that was lower quality than the $4 fish at the store where we worked. Again, I decided it wasn't worth wasting my money. The biggest reason most of the good quality fish are found online is because the stores have no market for them. Its as simple as supply and demand, and the almighty dollar that today, is hard to come by. If anyone else has questions about the pet store end of this discussion, please feel free to ask. After having worked in various stores since I was a kid, I have plenty of insight to share. Before I end my post, I do wish to mention that someone (I forget who it was, sorry) did make the ultimate point in an early post before Bill started this new thread. When people are willing to buy sick and less than quality fish, the store has no reason to change their practices. I have heard so many people talk about how they "rescued" the sick fish from the store, but without realizing it, all they really did was contribute to the problem. A store will only do what it absolutely has to for a fish to sell it as quick as possible. Its all about money. If people are spending it, then why change what obviously works? If customers were to stop buying sick fish, not just bettas but any species, and demand better quality in the fish... a store would have 2 choices. 1. stop selling that species of fish due to the money they lose on them, or 2. change their practices so they are offering only healthy animals. Choice # 3 would be to go out of business and lose everything. The stores don't allow their employees to be up front and blunt with customers about these things, its not good for sales. Because I am no longer working for a store, I am free to fill people in, but as often as I do that, it never seems to make much difference. I am often told that it is people's responsibility to rescue the sick ones, its not right to refuse them... but if a long term solution is to be found, we need to learn to sacrifice a few for the sake of the rest. Customers actually control the pet industry, but few people realize it. The owners of these pet stores can be heard together sometimes talking about how there is a sucker born every minute... how sad but how true that is. It gives these owners the freedom to do as they please and answer to nobody. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Enid Rodriguez <gwydryn2000@...> wrote: > > Bill; > Back in the day ( over 20 years ago) I tried my hand at breeding bettas and > paradise fish (I refuse to call them gouramies). I recall betta fry were hard to > raise, not because of their diminutive size, but because the little buggers were > constantly fighting and sparring. Dad made a commendable job of keeping them in > the bubble nest. And as soon as they started swimming and were big enough for > brine shrimp the had to be separated, or the smaller fry were killed in the > melee. Turkey basters are wonderful things to capture them with. > My best success was breeding them in a 5 gallon aquarium with pea soup green > water in a shaded porch during the summer. Mosquitoes kept volunteering their > eggs and the water was dark enough for the female to hide. At one point I > remember the female was tending a loaded bubble nest on one end and the male > another at the opposite corner. Elodea was the only plant I used, no gravel. And > I had buckets of mosquito larvae under trees to keep a constant supply of live > food for the adults. > Once separated the fry were hard to raise, mainly because I think they didnt > like the lack of stimulus they got from the sparring, and would go off feed. If > put in a 10 gallon aquarium under similar conditions as their birth tank only > 3-4 would make it; they took care of their own culls. Survival of the meanest, > if you will. At some point they would call a truce and no longer fight; they > established a "pecking order" and would be good as a group. Which is why nowdays > I keep a group in a 30 gallon, heavily planted. Right now I'm down to 3, but I > want to add a crown betta, as soon as I have time to supervise that addition. > Enid > > > > Sorry folks! I decided to start a new thread for this as I think it > a valuable subject for all on group! > > First of all, since I have never owned any Betta's but have stopped > many times to just enjoy their beauty, I have some questions about them myself. > > First, and I think the most important, just how many babies or fry will you get > or expect to raise from a Betta's spawn? Are they usually good parents to their > fry? Lot's of experience with Chiclids but they have larger spawn's, I do > believe. > > Anyone care to offer more comments on this subject? > > Bill > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49386	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?

Hi Dawn! Thanks so much for your mail as well as the length of it. I know you’re busy and time is limited, so I especially appreciate your response. Although I know that you met what you wrote as informative and on a serious note, I trust you can forgive an old friend here from having a few chuckles at your expense! You see that although I have heard of separating sexes in fish, I had no idea that the action needed to be such a pronounced manner in raising and caring for Beta’s. With this thought in mind, so too came a sudden picture of you and hubby at home stepping every whicha-way trying to avoid knocking over Beta bowls and jars that now occupied every flat surface in your home! The sad or more serious part of your mail, was of course, the trying to “market” the fish and the response you were given to do so. I can now more fully understand what Kai was trying to explain or describe to me. From the sounds of your mail, you went through all of that and more and also it seems, without much encouragement to continue either. More’s the pity. But I do understand. I would NOT be such a customer! Back in the day, it was not uncommon for Bill to pay-----_____-well let’s just say a lot for a certain Discus he had his eye on. But then, much like you, it all came full circle. One evening as I was doing the endless water changes that you know about doing, my wife suddenly asked me “Do you really believe that the people that buy you’re fish give them the same care you do”? Suddenly I realized that most probably, most of the fish I sold over the past year were already dead. Either from lack of care or general ignorance as too how to care for the fish properly. That was my last spawn. I never raised any fry after that and still haven’t. But there is one part that does haunt, it is the desire to do it all over again. Of course, at this point in my life, and my wife also now knowing what she knows and has learned about the Tropical Fish Hobby, I say my chances for remaining with you folks would be “if-fy” at best.! <g> Happy Halloween! Bill --- On Fri, 10/29/10, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breeder for Betta's ? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 5:01 PM > > > My breeding experiences differ from those already > mentioned.  I spent about 6 yrs focused on betta > breeding, starting simple with cheap fish I could afford, > eventually working my way up closer to show quality as money > allowed for it.  I also have spent many yrs doing > extensive research on betta splendens, from breeding to > health issues.  What got me started was seeing the > number of unhealthy bettas coming into our store from the > wholesalers and local breeders alike. > > As much as I love breeding these fish, time and space play > a huge part, and I no longer have either available.  > One key to fry survival is the ability to separate them as > young as possible, before the fighting begins.  My ex > hated my bettas because they were on every flat surface of > my house for a long long time.  I kept my fry in jars > or bowls, each had its own.  They were cleaned every > day, fed 2 - 3 times/day according to age, and when I > eventually had too many at a time I would take them to work > and offer them to the store.  > > Lack of an outlet for them became an issue later on, which > also contributed to my stopping the breeding of them.  > Our store buys them wholesale, seldom from private breeders > due to expense and lack of sales of the more expensive > fish.  The store always tries to keep a wide variety in > quality, fin style, color, etc., however, the more > expensive, "better" fish always sat on the shelf for such a > long time that some would eventually die of old age (yes, > we're talking a couple of yrs!).  The staff was always > fond of the store "pets" as we liked to think of them, but > the store lost a lot of money on those fish.  In order > to sell them we had to make some kind of profit on them, so > as was already pointed out, when people can get them for > wholesale price somewhere else, why pay more?  Besides > the wholesale cost to us, there was also the expense of > caring for them while they were in the store.  Water, > heat, food, and medications from time to time, it all costs > money.  It also costs the store money to pay someone to > take care of them all on a daily basis.  When a fish is > in the store for a month vs a few days, the expense to the > store increases quick, and drastically... which drives up > the prices on the fish.  > > There were many customers who would stop and admire the > better quality fish, but it became common to hear the > parents telling the kids "those are great, but you need to > find one for under $5" or you'd hear the adults talk to each > other and make comments like, "oh, I wish I could afford > something like that, but not for a fish that only lives a > few yrs" and just as often we'd hear comments about how > people actually preferred the standard cheap $3 and $4 > bettas.  Over the years, the decision was made to scale > back to stocking only the standard cheap bettas, it was > business smart.  > > From time to time we would get a request for a better > quality fish, and if enough requests came within a given > week, the boss would order 1 small shipment of them... but > even on those occasions, there is a minimum order the store > has to put in for them and we never sold all of what we > ordered, which cost us money.  It simply wasn't worth > it. > > When I would take my fry to work, even the good quality > fish, the boss would explain to me that they weren't worth > much to him because people seemed to prefer the standard > fish.  If he couldn't sell my fish for the same low > price, he didn't have space for them.  I was usually > lucky to get 35 cents each for them that way, but it was the > only way I could get rid of a lot at once to make room for a > new spawn.  > > In response to Bill's questions, my spawns averaged 75 - > 100 fry at a time, sometimes up to 150 at a time, depending > on the parent fish.  Most of the males were good > parents, females tended to try to eat the eggs and newly > hatched fry, so were removed as soon as the eggs were all in > the nest.  A few spawns had fathers who just decided > one day to munch them all down while I was at work, but that > was not typical.  > > The hardest part I found in the 6 yrs or so that I bred and > raised them, was finding enough space in the house to keep > the fry separated at a young enough age and keeping up with > the daily schedule it took to keep them clean and healthy > all the time.  The daily water changes were 100%, which > actually made things a little easier.  I had a bucket > system worked out, similar to what we did at the > store.  It saved as much time as could be and still > kept the fish in perfect condition, but none the less, it > was for sure very time consuming.  > > My few attempts (after listening to suggestions by local > breeders) at keeping them all together in larger tanks were > all disastrous.  I would come home from work to find > 1/4 of my population gone each day until only a few were > left.  Those were usually fish I kept for breeding > because there was no money to be made in selling just a > few.  > > As for the bettas coming from Thailand via > internet/Aquabid... I have never personally ordered > anything.  One of my coworkers tried hard to get a hold > of a few show bettas via Aquabid, but all he ever ended up > with was dead fish arriving at his doorstep.  I watched > him spend paycheck after paycheck, trying with different > sellers, all from Thailand.  After a few months of this > and being too broke to do it again, he gave up.  After > watching his ordeal, I didn't even bother to try.  > Another coworker tried and received a fish that looked > nothing like the photograph in the ad online, and ended up > paying $40 for a fish that was lower quality than the $4 > fish at the store where we worked.  Again, I decided it > wasn't worth wasting my money.  > > The biggest reason most of the good quality fish are found > online is because the stores have no market for them.  > Its as simple as supply and demand, and the almighty dollar > that today, is hard to come by.    > > If anyone else has questions about the pet store end of > this discussion, please feel free to ask.  After having > worked in various stores since I was a kid, I have plenty of > insight to share.  Before I end my post, I do wish to > mention that someone (I forget who it was, sorry) did make > the ultimate point in an early post before Bill started this > new thread.  When people are willing to buy sick and > less than quality fish, the store has no reason to change > their practices.  I have heard so many people talk > about how they "rescued" the sick fish from the store, but > without realizing it, all they really did was contribute to > the problem.  A store will only do what it absolutely > has to for a fish to sell it as quick as possible.  Its > all about money.  If people are spending it, then why > change what obviously works?  If customers were to stop > buying sick fish, not just bettas but any species, and > demand better quality in the fish... a store would have 2 > choices.  1. stop selling that species of fish due to > the money they lose on them, or 2. change their practices so > they are offering only healthy animals.  Choice # 3 > would be to go out of business and lose everything. > > The stores don't allow their employees to be up front and > blunt with customers about these things, its not good for > sales.  Because I am no longer working for a store, I > am free to fill people in, but as often as I do that, it > never seems to make much difference.  I am often told > that it is people's responsibility to rescue the sick ones, > its not right to refuse them... but if a long term solution > is to be found, we need to learn to sacrifice a few for the > sake of the rest.  Customers actually control the pet > industry, but few people realize it.  The owners of > these pet stores can be heard together sometimes talking > about how there is a sucker born every minute... how sad but > how true that is.  It gives these owners the freedom to > do as they please and answer to nobody. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > Enid Rodriguez <gwydryn2000@...> wrote: > > > > Bill; > > Back in the day ( over 20 years ago) I tried my hand > at breeding bettas and > > paradise fish (I refuse to call them gouramies). I > recall betta fry were hard to > > raise, not because of their diminutive size, but > because the little buggers were > > constantly fighting and sparring. Dad made a > commendable job of keeping them in > > the bubble nest. And as soon as they started swimming > and were big enough for > > brine shrimp the had to be separated, or the smaller > fry were killed in the > > melee. Turkey basters are wonderful things to capture > them with. > > My best success was breeding them in a 5 gallon > aquarium with pea soup green > > water in a shaded porch during the summer. Mosquitoes > kept volunteering their > > eggs and the water was dark enough for the female to > hide. At one point I > > remember the female was tending a loaded bubble nest > on one end and the male > > another at the opposite corner. Elodea was the only > plant I used, no gravel. And > > I had buckets of mosquito larvae under trees to keep a > constant supply of live > > food for the adults. > > Once separated the fry were hard to raise, mainly > because I think they didnt > > like the lack of stimulus they got from the sparring, > and would go off feed. If > > put in a 10 gallon aquarium under similar conditions > as their birth tank only > > 3-4 would make it; they took care of their own culls. > Survival of the meanest, > > if you will. At some point they would call a truce and > no longer fight; they > > established a "pecking order" and would be good as a > group. Which is why nowdays > > I keep a group in a 30 gallon, heavily planted. Right > now I'm down to 3, but I > > want to add a crown betta, as soon as I have time to > supervise that addition. > > Enid > > > > > >    > > Sorry folks!  I decided to start a new thread for > this as I think it > > a valuable subject for all on group! > >  > > First of all, since I have never owned any Betta's but > have stopped > > many times to just enjoy their beauty, I have some > questions about them myself. > >  > > First, and I think the most important, just how many > babies or fry will you get > > or expect to raise from a Betta's spawn?  Are > they usually good parents to their > > fry?  Lot's of experience with Chiclids but they > have larger spawn's, I do > > believe. > >  > > Anyone care to offer more comments on this > subject?  > >  > > Bill > > > > > >  > > > > > >        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49387	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

I'm getting both of the males (one is a reddish/purple), the 2nd has several colors (mostly blue, with some light blue striping in his fins/tail and some red on his fins closest to his body, he looks gorgeous, can't wait to see these 2 giants in person). Both are nearly 3 inches long including fins, and they're about 6 months old, so they still have some growing to do I think (at least in the fins they do). They are both giant 1/2 moon plakats. I'm also getting 3 "regular" females, he didn't tell me the fin types but he's only charging me $1 each for the females so it's still a great deal. He currently has fry he's raising and they will be ready in 6 months, in case you happen to go searching aquabid later next year :) He is in Louisiana, can't remember where you're at off the top of my head, but I think you're somewhere on the east coast-ish. Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. Not sure if the females will be big enough to breed with the males, will find out later I suppose ;) I wonder if hubby will let me have little betta bowls all over the house? LOL. Amber On 10/29/2010 9:31 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Oooooh, congratulations on finding fish that you are happy with, > Amber! I hope you find mates for your new studs. > > Poking around on Aquabid, I could easily spend the (HA!) family > fortune on the beautiful fish they offer for sale. I'd buy them all if > I could. > > My Moo Shu looked purple in the store but here under my desk lamp's > light is more of a light indigo or dark periwinkle. Definitely a lot > more blue than purple. And in just a couple of weeks, his fins have > grown to reveal that he is a spade tail -- a tail shape that faded > away about 10 years ago so he's a bit of a throw-back. > > Spare Rib is my latest addition to replace Sweet and Sour. His fins > are red and his body is a pale pinkish purple. I think some breeders > are calling it "orchid." He has great color, but lousy fins. Raggedy. > > I always say it but I never actually do it... "Next fish" I'll bite > the bullet and pay for shipping to get a GOOD Betta. Yeah, right. Sure > I will. I'm glad you're living my dream, Amber! GO FOR IT!!! > ~Kai > > > Amber wrote: > > > > I've gotten a hold of a breeder for betta's (they imported from > thailand and already acclimated them he kept a few to breed them, and > is selling the rest), I have at least 1 (purple!) betta picked out, > I'm negotiating a 2nd one (I'm not sure hubby will pay $40 for him, > but he sure is gorgeous!), and fortunately for me he is willing to > ship on my fedex account number so my shipping shouldn't be more than > 25-30 dollars. I don't mind having fish shipped in myself, but I fully > understand why you don't want to do it. The only reason why I'm not so > hesitant is because I've had good success getting the fish here alive > and healthy in just 1 day transit time, and I know I'm getting a good > quality fish, unlike my LFS (half the time their fish are sick with > something, but at least they refuse to sell the sick fish until their > healthy!). > > Good luck on your search Kai, if I get to breeding these giant > bettas in the future I'll let you know when I have babies :) And I'll > post lots of pics, LOL. Now I just need to find some giant females to > go with these giant males. > > I've picked out a purple halfmoon plakat, and a red/blue halfmoon > plakat (the $40 one), he unfortunately already sold his 2 giant > females and is keeping the other 2 for himself. These guys are 3 times > bigger than normal sized betta's, can't wait to see them in person, > they look gorgeous in pictures. > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49388	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/29/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Hi Amber, "I wonder if hubby will let me have little betta bowls all over the house"? Might be an idea to contact Dawn from here? Sounds as though she might have some around because of her past mail, she might have really been into this at one time? Bill --- On Fri, 10/29/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Our Growing Betta Families > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 10:35 PM > I'm getting both of the males (one is > a reddish/purple), the 2nd has > several colors (mostly blue, with some light blue striping > in his > fins/tail and some red on his fins closest to his body, he > looks > gorgeous, can't wait to see these 2 giants in person). Both > are nearly 3 > inches long including fins, and they're about 6 months old, > so they > still have some growing to do I think (at least in the fins > they do). > They are both giant 1/2 moon plakats. I'm also getting 3 > "regular" > females, he didn't tell me the fin types but he's only > charging me $1 > each for the females so it's still a great deal. He > currently has fry > he's raising and they will be ready in 6 months, in case > you happen to > go searching aquabid later next year :) He is in Louisiana, > can't > remember where you're at off the top of my head, but I > think you're > somewhere on the east coast-ish. > Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming > pets. > Not sure if the females will be big enough to breed with > the males, will > find out later I suppose ;) I wonder if hubby will let me > have little > betta bowls all over the house? LOL. > > Amber > > On 10/29/2010 9:31 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Oooooh, congratulations on finding fish that you are > happy with, > > Amber! I hope you find mates for your new studs. > > > > Poking around on Aquabid, I could easily spend the > (HA!) family > > fortune on the beautiful fish they offer for sale. I'd > buy them all if > > I could. > > > > My Moo Shu looked purple in the store but here under > my desk lamp's > > light is more of a light indigo or dark periwinkle. > Definitely a lot > > more blue than purple. And in just a couple of weeks, > his fins have > > grown to reveal that he is a spade tail -- a tail > shape that faded > > away about 10 years ago so he's a bit of a > throw-back. > > > > Spare Rib is my latest addition to replace Sweet and > Sour. His fins > > are red and his body is a pale pinkish purple. I think > some breeders > > are calling it "orchid." He has great color, but lousy > fins. Raggedy. > > > > I always say it but I never actually do it... "Next > fish" I'll bite > > the bullet and pay for shipping to get a GOOD Betta. > Yeah, right. Sure > > I will. I'm glad you're living my dream, Amber! GO FOR > IT!!! > > ~Kai > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > > > > I've gotten a hold of a breeder for betta's (they > imported from > > thailand and already acclimated them he kept a few to > breed them, and > > is selling the rest), I have at least 1 (purple!) > betta picked out, > > I'm negotiating a 2nd one (I'm not sure hubby will pay > $40 for him, > > but he sure is gorgeous!), and fortunately for me he > is willing to > > ship on my fedex account number so my shipping > shouldn't be more than > > 25-30 dollars. I don't mind having fish shipped in > myself, but I fully > > understand why you don't want to do it. The only > reason why I'm not so > > hesitant is because I've had good success getting the > fish here alive > > and healthy in just 1 day transit time, and I know I'm > getting a good > > quality fish, unlike my LFS (half the time their fish > are sick with > > something, but at least they refuse to sell the sick > fish until their > > healthy!). > > > Good luck on your search Kai, if I get to > breeding these giant > > bettas in the future I'll let you know when I have > babies :) And I'll > > post lots of pics, LOL. Now I just need to find some > giant females to > > go with these giant males. > > > I've picked out a purple halfmoon plakat, and a > red/blue halfmoon > > plakat (the $40 one), he unfortunately already sold > his 2 giant > > females and is keeping the other 2 for himself. These > guys are 3 times > > bigger than normal sized betta's, can't wait to see > them in person, > > they look gorgeous in pictures. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49389	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?

Holy cow, Dawn, that was a heckuva comprehensive reply! It was good to hear the perspective from the other side of the counter. And it was eye-opening in a lot of ways. As for Aquabid/internet... Let me remind everyone that we customers cannot buy directly from Thailand or anywhere else overseas. The fish have to come through a trans-shipper, a licensed importer, who then forwards the purchase to the customer. It adds to the cost and to the time and to the trauma. *IF* I were to buy online, it would be from a US breeder -- bonus points for being nearby to minimize shipping time. [Or ideally, close enough to shop in person.] I imagine it's true that some sellers pull the bait-and-switch, picturing the best sire and then sending the runt of the litter. A scrupulous seller will post photos of the actual fish. Dawn also mentioned sick fish. That's another opera altogether. I'm talking strictly about breeding. While there will always be a market for cheap "disposable" fish, I still say that the bar should be raised. The overall quality of pet shop Bettas could and should be much better. ~Kai > > Dawn wrote: > > My breeding experiences differ from those already mentioned. I spent about 6 yrs focused on betta breeding, starting simple with cheap fish I could afford, eventually working my way up closer to show quality as money allowed for it. I also have spent many yrs doing extensive research on betta splendens, from breeding to health issues. What got me started was seeing the number of unhealthy bettas coming into our store from the wholesalers and local breeders alike. > > As much as I love breeding these fish, time and space play a huge part, and I no longer have either available. One key to fry survival is the ability to separate them as young as possible, before the fighting begins. My ex hated my bettas because they were on every flat surface of my house for a long long time. I kept my fry in jars or bowls, each had its own. They were cleaned every day, fed 2 - 3 times/day according to age, and when I eventually had too many at a time I would take them to work and offer them to the store. > > Lack of an outlet for them became an issue later on, which also contributed to my stopping the breeding of them. Our store buys them wholesale, seldom from private breeders due to expense and lack of sales of the more expensive fish. The store always tries to keep a wide variety in quality, fin style, color, etc., however, the more expensive, "better" fish always sat on the shelf for such a long time that some would eventually die of old age (yes, we're talking a couple of yrs!). The staff was always fond of the store "pets" as we liked to think of them, but the store lost a lot of money on those fish. In order to sell them we had to make some kind of profit on them, so as was already pointed out, when people can get them for wholesale price somewhere else, why pay more? Besides the wholesale cost to us, there was also the expense of caring for them while they were in the store. Water, heat, food, and medications from time to time, it all costs money. It also costs the store money to pay someone to take care of them all on a daily basis. When a fish is in the store for a month vs a few days, the expense to the store increases quick, and drastically... which drives up the prices on the fish. > > There were many customers who would stop and admire the better quality fish, but it became common to hear the parents telling the kids "those are great, but you need to find one for under $5" or you'd hear the adults talk to each other and make comments like, "oh, I wish I could afford something like that, but not for a fish that only lives a few yrs" and just as often we'd hear comments about how people actually preferred the standard cheap $3 and $4 bettas. Over the years, the decision was made to scale back to stocking only the standard cheap bettas, it was business smart. > > From time to time we would get a request for a better quality fish, and if enough requests came within a given week, the boss would order 1 small shipment of them... but even on those occasions, there is a minimum order the store has to put in for them and we never sold all of what we ordered, which cost us money. It simply wasn't worth it. > > When I would take my fry to work, even the good quality fish, the boss would explain to me that they weren't worth much to him because people seemed to prefer the standard fish. If he couldn't sell my fish for the same low price, he didn't have space for them. I was usually lucky to get 35 cents each for them that way, but it was the only way I could get rid of a lot at once to make room for a new spawn. > > In response to Bill's questions, my spawns averaged 75 - 100 fry at a time, sometimes up to 150 at a time, depending on the parent fish. Most of the males were good parents, females tended to try to eat the eggs and newly hatched fry, so were removed as soon as the eggs were all in the nest. A few spawns had fathers who just decided one day to munch them all down while I was at work, but that was not typical. > > The hardest part I found in the 6 yrs or so that I bred and raised them, was finding enough space in the house to keep the fry separated at a young enough age and keeping up with the daily schedule it took to keep them clean and healthy all the time. The daily water changes were 100%, which actually made things a little easier. I had a bucket system worked out, similar to what we did at the store. It saved as much time as could be and still kept the fish in perfect condition, but none the less, it was for sure very time consuming. > > My few attempts (after listening to suggestions by local breeders) at keeping them all together in larger tanks were all disastrous. I would come home from work to find 1/4 of my population gone each day until only a few were left. Those were usually fish I kept for breeding because there was no money to be made in selling just a few. > > As for the bettas coming from Thailand via internet/Aquabid... I have never personally ordered anything. One of my coworkers tried hard to get a hold of a few show bettas via Aquabid, but all he ever ended up with was dead fish arriving at his doorstep. I watched him spend paycheck after paycheck, trying with different sellers, all from Thailand. After a few months of this and being too broke to do it again, he gave up. After watching his ordeal, I didn't even bother to try. Another coworker tried and received a fish that looked nothing like the photograph in the ad online, and ended up paying $40 for a fish that was lower quality than the $4 fish at the store where we worked. Again, I decided it wasn't worth wasting my money. > > The biggest reason most of the good quality fish are found online is because the stores have no market for them. Its as simple as supply and demand, and the almighty dollar that today, is hard to come by. > > If anyone else has questions about the pet store end of this discussion, please feel free to ask. After having worked in various stores since I was a kid, I have plenty of insight to share. Before I end my post, I do wish to mention that someone (I forget who it was, sorry) did make the ultimate point in an early post before Bill started this new thread. When people are willing to buy sick and less than quality fish, the store has no reason to change their practices. I have heard so many people talk about how they "rescued" the sick fish from the store, but without realizing it, all they really did was contribute to the problem. A store will only do what it absolutely has to for a fish to sell it as quick as possible. Its all about money. If people are spending it, then why change what obviously works? If customers were to stop buying sick fish, not just bettas but any species, and demand better quality in the fish... a store would have 2 choices. 1. stop selling that species of fish due to the money they lose on them, or 2. change their practices so they are offering only healthy animals. Choice # 3 would be to go out of business and lose everything. > > The stores don't allow their employees to be up front and blunt with customers about these things, its not good for sales. Because I am no longer working for a store, I am free to fill people in, but as often as I do that, it never seems to make much difference. I am often told that it is people's responsibility to rescue the sick ones, its not right to refuse them... but if a long term solution is to be found, we need to learn to sacrifice a few for the sake of the rest. Customers actually control the pet industry, but few people realize it. The owners of these pet stores can be heard together sometimes talking about how there is a sucker born every minute... how sad but how true that is. It gives these owners the freedom to do as they please and answer to nobody. > > Dawn > > SNIPPED

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49390	From: haecklers	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?

Thanks for that link - that is fantastic! It helped me realize my female betta in the guppy tank isn't getting obesely fat like I had thought, she's full of eggs and ready for Mr. Betta to give her the squeeze! Now I just have to condition one of my males and get them a 10-gallon tank and another air pump and sponge filter and heater and start moving fish all around and find a surface area that doesn't already have fish tanks... The good news is I already have a variety of live foods for them - microworms, etc. She is a bronze female with that nice iridescence so the light shines off of her green, blue, or purple. We have a typical red/blue male - mostly red with blue highlights, and one of those deep orange males. Which do you folks think would be the better match? I'm leaning toward the orange, but if we used the red/blue one maybe we'd get a more varied spawn? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > http://www.flippersandfins.net/bettabreedingarticle.htm claims 471 (How did they count them all?) from the first attempt. But Enid didn't have such success so I guess it varies wildly. I guess it's a mix of luck and experience. > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Sorry folks!  I decided to start a new thread for this as I think it a valuable subject for all on group! > >   > > First of all, since I have never owned any Betta's but have stopped many times to just enjoy their beauty, I have some questions about them myself. > >   > > First, and I think the most important, just how many babies or fry will you get or expect to raise from a Betta's spawn?  Are they usually good parents to their fry?  Lot's of experience with Chiclids but they have larger spawn's, I do believe. > >   > > Anyone care to offer more comments on this subject?  > >   > > Bill > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49391	From: kuradi8	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeder for Betta's ?

Whoever has the better fins. I'm more impressed by good fins than by color. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > Thanks for that link - that is fantastic! > > It helped me realize my female betta in the guppy tank isn't getting obesely fat like I had thought, she's full of eggs and ready for Mr. Betta to give her the squeeze! Now I just have to condition one of my males and get them a 10-gallon tank and another air pump and sponge filter and heater and start moving fish all around and find a surface area that doesn't already have fish tanks... > > The good news is I already have a variety of live foods for them - microworms, etc. > > She is a bronze female with that nice iridescence so the light shines off of her green, blue, or purple. We have a typical red/blue male - mostly red with blue highlights, and one of those deep orange males. Which do you folks think would be the better match? I'm leaning toward the orange, but if we used the red/blue one maybe we'd get a more varied spawn? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > http://www.flippersandfins.net/bettabreedingarticle.htm claims 471 (How did they count them all?) from the first attempt. But Enid didn't have such success so I guess it varies wildly. I guess it's a mix of luck and experience. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Sorry folks!  I decided to start a new thread for this as I think it a valuable subject for all on group! > > >   > > > First of all, since I have never owned any Betta's but have stopped many times to just enjoy their beauty, I have some questions about them myself. > > >   > > > First, and I think the most important, just how many babies or fry will you get or expect to raise from a Betta's spawn?  Are they usually good parents to their fry?  Lot's of experience with Chiclids but they have larger spawn's, I do believe. > > >   > > > Anyone care to offer more comments on this subject?  > > >   > > > Bill > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49392	From: LindaS	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas

Hi Bill, they are not like guppies or anything like that. I will tell you my one experience I had with an experiment, and I did it badly. I had a beautiful male and he kept making the biggest bubble nests I ever saw. So, I got a female, I put a bridge in the bottom of the bowl first, because I read where the female needs a place to hide. They both seemed very docile. So, in a week or so of the bowls being side by side, I decided to put her in with my beautiful male. She instantly, I mean, didn't take a second, because I had my net in there to protect him if something happened, and I didn't have time to do a thing, rushed to him and bit his side fin off. She attacked him instantly. I got her out of there so fast. He lived about a week and died. I let her live her life out, but didn't like her much. If you go on u-tube you can see how they are bred. It takes a lot. You have to separate out the fry, the male takes care of them until they are big enough to separate out. Why not pick one up and just enjoy? I have mine in a 2-3 gallon glass bowl, which I got at a thrift and was really one of those made for candles. I have to clean the bowl out once a week, and just feed twice a day. They are easy keepers, but have to be on their own. They cost next to nothing. I like to declorinate the water naturally, by leaving it in a bucket for over 24 hours, but if I need to change it before that, I use the liquid declorination stuff they have. I can make the water warm for them with that too in the winter. Well, you asked. I know there is a way, but it takes a lot of patience. Get a Betta! Let him out of his cage! LinS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49393	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: BAS Auction

October 31 the Boston Aquarium Society is holding its Annual Auction. Those of you who live within driving distance may want to take advantage of this opportunity to, perhaps, get some fish that you may have not seen around for a while, or ever, through retail channels. Item registration begins at 10:30 AM, bidding starts at 12:00 PM. Cash or checks only please Save time, get your Vendor Registration Form online and fill it out before Location: Knights of Columbus Hall 11 Sanborn Street Reading, MA 01867 www.bostonaquariumsociety.org For directions \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49394	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: NEC Convention Info--Mark Your Calendars

The annual NEC Convention (god, how I hate that appellation--I think the original name was better--Winter Weekend Workshop) is coming up March 25-27, 20011. Mark your calendars! It will be held, again, at the Crowne Plaza Hotel in Cromwell, CT Speakers confirmed (so far): Ad Konigs-Riftlake Cichlids; Mike Hellweg-The TFH Breeder's Competition; Ted Judy-TBA; Eric Bodrock-Breeding Oddball Catfish; and Andy Rhyne-The Cutting Edge of Marine Aquaculture, with more to be announced. More information will be passed along as it becomes available. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49395	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Tropical Fish Club of Burlington (VT)

Tropical Fish Club of Burlington At the VFW Hall 176 Winooski Avenue Burlington, VT Sunday, November 7, 2010 Auction starts at 12:00 noon Get there early to view the auction items For Information & Rules go to www.tfcb.org Or contact David Banks at: dbanks@... \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49396	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: East Coast Cichlids (NJ) Auction

East Coast Cichlids Fall Auction '10 Lyndhurst Elks Club 251 Park Avenue Lyndhurst, NJ 07071 Sunday, November 7, 2010 Registration: 9 am-11 am Auction: 12:00 pm Food available at the auction Go to the website for additional information about East Coast Cichlids www.eastcoastcichlids.org \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49397	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

There is an interesting article in this month's Pioneer Valley Aquarium Society's newsletter. Unfortunately, it is not yet available at their site ( www.pvas.net ) yet, and it may be a few months before it is. If you wish a copy of the newsletter, contact me off list, and I will send you a PDF of it. I'll not accept any requests from the list. Use the subject "PVAS Newsletter Request" so it does not anguish in my mailbox until I happen to get around to reading it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LindaS Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 1:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas Hi Bill, they are not like guppies or anything like that. I will tell you my one experience I had with an experiment, and I did it badly. I had a beautiful male and he kept making the biggest bubble nests I ever saw. So, I got a female, I put a bridge in the bottom of the bowl first, because I read where the female needs a place to hide. They both seemed very docile. So, in a week or so of the bowls being side by side, I decided to put her in with my beautiful male. She instantly, I mean, didn't take a second, because I had my net in there to protect him if something happened, and I didn't have time to do a thing, rushed to him and bit his side fin off. She attacked him instantly. I got her out of there so fast. He lived about a week and died. I let her live her life out, but didn't like her much. If you go on u-tube you can see how they are bred. It takes a lot. You have to separate out the fry, the male takes care of them until they are big enough to separate out. Why not pick one up and just enjoy? I have mine in a 2-3 gallon glass bowl, which I got at a thrift and was really one of those made for candles. I have to clean the bowl out once a week, and just feed twice a day. They are easy keepers, but have to be on their own. They cost next to nothing. I like to declorinate the water naturally, by leaving it in a bucket for over 24 hours, but if I need to change it before that, I use the liquid declorination stuff they have. I can make the water warm for them with that too in the winter. Well, you asked. I know there is a way, but it takes a lot of patience. Get a Betta! Let him out of his cage! LinS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49398	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

Hi Linda,   Thanks for sharing.  Your story is the exact opposite of what I thought.  Any riping, tearing or other damage, I thought would all be inflected by the male.   As for me and Betta's?  Sorry, just too small.  My last efforts were all with Discus but back then I did have some larger fish, Oscars Pacu's.  One thing about big fish, once you have them, live with the potential damage they can possibly do, they are hard to forget. Back in those days I was much younger so those big PWC's and other tank maintenance did not mean so much.  Today we are a bit calmer and are currently working with Angelfish and maybe try German Blue Rams again.   Bill --- On Sat, 10/30/10, LindaS <maxinatrillion@...> wrote: > From: LindaS <maxinatrillion@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, October 30, 2010, 1:55 PM > Hi Bill, they are not like guppies or > anything like that. I will tell you my one experience I had > with an experiment, and I did it badly. > I had a beautiful male and he kept making the biggest > bubble nests I ever saw. So, I got a female, I put a bridge > in the bottom of the bowl first, because I read where the > female needs a place to hide.  > They both seemed very docile. So, in a week or so of the > bowls being side by side, I decided to put her in with my > beautiful male. She instantly, I mean, didn't take a second, > because I had my net in there to protect him if something > happened, and I didn't have time to do a thing, rushed to > him and bit his side fin off.  She attacked him > instantly.  I got her out of there so fast. He lived > about a week and died. I let her live her life out, but > didn't like her much. > If you go on u-tube you can see how they are bred. It takes > a lot. You have to separate out the fry, the male takes care > of them until they are big enough to separate out. > Why not pick one up and just enjoy? I have mine in a 2-3 > gallon glass bowl, which I got at a thrift and was really > one of those made for candles. I have to clean the bowl out > once a week, and just feed twice a day. They are easy > keepers, but have to be on their own. They cost next to > nothing. I like to declorinate the water naturally, by > leaving it in a bucket for over 24 hours, but if I need to > change it before that, I use the liquid declorination stuff > they have. I can make the water warm for them with that too > in the winter. > Well, you asked.  I know there is a way, but it takes > a lot of patience. > Get a Betta! Let him out of his cage! > LinS > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49399	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Taxonomic Database Online

For those of you who may have an interest in this sort of stuff or know what the word taxonomic means, there is a government taxonomic database on line that lets your search through any of the five kingdoms that exist, or all of them by any word, common names, and scientific names. It is kind of cool, giving the current scientific name, and a note as to whether it is valid or not. For instance, looking up _Ctenops nobilis_ shows that it is a valid name, whereas _Microctenopoma ansorgii_ is shown not to be valid. The latter is a relatively new genus name for fish that have been carved out of the Ctenopoma genus. There are also references given for each fish. I found it notable that the Baensch Aquarium Atlas was included in several that I looked up. If you are a resident of Canada, the United States, or Mexico, put your tax dollars to work and use this database. If you are a resident of another country, hey go ahead and use it too. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49400	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: East Coast Cichlids (NJ) Auction

I'll be at that one. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 3:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] East Coast Cichlids (NJ) Auction East Coast Cichlids Fall Auction '10 Lyndhurst Elks Club 251 Park Avenue Lyndhurst, NJ 07071 Sunday, November 7, 2010 Registration: 9 am-11 am Auction: 12:00 pm Food available at the auction Go to the website for additional information about East Coast Cichlids www.eastcoastcichlids.org \\Steve// [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49401	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/30/2010
Subject: Re: Taxonomic Database Online

I probably should have included the link to that database. You'll find it at: http://www.itis.gov/ \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 6:23 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Taxonomic Database Online For those of you who may have an interest in this sort of stuff or know what the word taxonomic means, there is a government taxonomic database on line that lets your search through any of the five kingdoms that exist, or all of them by any word, common names, and scientific names. It is kind of cool, giving the current scientific name, and a note as to whether it is valid or not. For instance, looking up _Ctenops nobilis_ shows that it is a valid name, whereas _Microctenopoma ansorgii_ is shown not to be valid. The latter is a relatively new genus name for fish that have been carved out of the Ctenopoma genus. There are also references given for each fish. I found it notable that the Baensch Aquarium Atlas was included in several that I looked up. If you are a resident of Canada, the United States, or Mexico, put your tax dollars to work and use this database. If you are a resident of another country, hey go ahead and use it too. \\Steve// ------------------------------------ AquaticLife 7 A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49402	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3305&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_29_2010&utm_term=The_worlds_top_10_Halloween_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2628dv7 \\Steve// Happy Halloween!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49403	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

I noticed this huge bump on the side of my albino cat fish today and I was talked to someone and they said it might be a tumor. So I wanted to know. Do fish get cancerous tumors and if this is should I take her out? I want to post a few pics but I don't know how to.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49404	From: john Lewis	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish

Hello Steve:    Thanx for the list but they left out a few key species;    The Bleeding Heart Tetra, Ghost Shrimp, Decorator Crabs, Hatchet fish, Clown Knife Fish, Brown Ghost Fish, Halloween Crabs, The ever infamous...Red Devil, and one little bird to watch over them all; The Cut-Throat Finch.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 6:10:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish   http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3305&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_29_2010&utm_term=The_worlds_top_10_Halloween_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2628dv7 \\Steve// Happy Halloween! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49405	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Yes, fish can and do get cancer. However, is what you are seeing a cancer? That is a tough call. It may just be a cyst that has developed, or is developing. To post a photo, go to the group site (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife/ ) and on the left side there is a menu. Just click on Photos, and follow the instructions. The photo may help in a diagnosis, but you should also provide us with your water parameters (temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and the results of any other tests you do), the side of the tank, the population of the tank and any other things you feel may be of help to us. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of camdogkingsfan Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. I noticed this huge bump on the side of my albino cat fish today and I was talked to someone and they said it might be a tumor. So I wanted to know. Do fish get cancerous tumors and if this is should I take her out? I want to post a few pics but I don't know how to.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49406	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish

You only need two more aquatic creatures to reach your 10. Come on, you can do it! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 11:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish Hello Steve: Thanx for the list but they left out a few key species; The Bleeding Heart Tetra, Ghost Shrimp, Decorator Crabs, Hatchet fish, Clown Knife Fish, Brown Ghost Fish, Halloween Crabs, The ever infamous...Red Devil, and one little bird to watch over them all; The Cut-Throat Finch. Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 6:10:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3305&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_29_2010&utm_term=The_worlds_top_10_Halloween_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2628dv7 \\Steve// Happy Halloween!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49407	From: LindaS	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas

To add to the story Bill, yes. I was very surprized. I put her in the bowl he was familiar with and I was on guard for her safety really. But, she just dived right to him and tore his side fin(I don't know what that's called, a gill?) It was immediate, and the poor guy didn't know she was even there probably. What I should have done was put her in a clear plastic floating bowl of some kind, and let them get to see each other a couple of times. Hindsight is 50/50. I like them because I don't need an aquarium with them. Just like to watch them, it's relaxing. You are right, in a big container, sometimes they hide in the folage, and you can't see them. My light one, I have to jiggle the bowl sometimes to see if he's still there. Angel fish are really pretty too. I don't know the other. I'll look it up. Linda

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49408	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

Are you certain that the female was actually a female? There are several bettas without the long, gorgeous flowing fins that are quite aggressive. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: LindaS <maxinatrillion@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 12:16:45 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas To add to the story Bill, yes. I was very surprized. I put her in the bowl he was familiar with and I was on guard for her safety really. But, she just dived right to him and tore his side fin(I don't know what that's called, a gill?) It was immediate, and the poor guy didn't know she was even there probably. What I should have done was put her in a clear plastic floating bowl of some kind, and let them get to see each other a couple of times. Hindsight is 50/50. I like them because I don't need an aquarium with them. Just like to watch them, it's relaxing. You are right, in a big container, sometimes they hide in the folage, and you can't see them. My light one, I have to jiggle the bowl sometimes to see if he's still there. Angel fish are really pretty too. I don't know the other. I'll look it up. Linda ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49409	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish

Frankenfish aka Flowerhorns! -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:31 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish You only need two more aquatic creatures to reach your 10. Come on, you can do it! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 11:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish Hello Steve: Thanx for the list but they left out a few key species; The Bleeding Heart Tetra, Ghost Shrimp, Decorator Crabs, Hatchet fish, Clown Knife Fish, Brown Ghost Fish, Halloween Crabs, The ever infamous...Red Devil, and one little bird to watch over them all; The Cut-Throat Finch. Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 6:10:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3305&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_29_2010&utm_term=The_worlds_top_10_Halloween_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2628dv7 \\Steve// Happy Halloween!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49410	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Well I tried to update two pics but I keep getting a An unknown error occurred on the Yahoo! Groups server. So I got at least one up. I will try the basic upload to see if that helps. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Yes, fish can and do get cancer. However, is what you are seeing a cancer? > That is a tough call. It may just be a cyst that has developed, or is > developing. > > To post a photo, go to the group site > (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife/ ) and on the left side > there is a menu. Just click on Photos, and follow the instructions. > > The photo may help in a diagnosis, but you should also provide us with your > water parameters (temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and the > results of any other tests you do), the side of the tank, the population of > the tank and any other things you feel may be of help to us. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > I noticed this huge bump on the side of my albino cat fish today and I was > talked to someone and they said it might be a tumor. So I wanted to know. > Do fish get cancerous tumors and if this is should I take her out? I want > to post a few pics but I don't know how to. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49411	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

All thirteen of your photos are up there. Got to photos and click on view all photos and you will see them. You might want to reduce the number by deleting some of them. From what I see, this looks more like a sac filled with a fluid. Is that an accurate description? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of camdogkingsfan Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. Well I tried to update two pics but I keep getting a An unknown error occurred on the Yahoo! Groups server. So I got at least one up. I will try the basic upload to see if that helps. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Yes, fish can and do get cancer. However, is what you are seeing a cancer? > That is a tough call. It may just be a cyst that has developed, or is > developing. > > To post a photo, go to the group site > (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife/ ) and on the left side > there is a menu. Just click on Photos, and follow the instructions. > > The photo may help in a diagnosis, but you should also provide us with your > water parameters (temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and the > results of any other tests you do), the side of the tank, the population of > the tank and any other things you feel may be of help to us. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > I noticed this huge bump on the side of my albino cat fish today and I was > talked to someone and they said it might be a tumor. So I wanted to know. > Do fish get cancerous tumors and if this is should I take her out? I want > to post a few pics but I don't know how to. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49412	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Sorry guys. Yahoo said there was an error so I kept trying. I deleted most of them. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > All thirteen of your photos are up there. Got to photos and click on view > all photos and you will see them. You might want to reduce the number by > deleting some of them. > > From what I see, this looks more like a sac filled with a fluid. Is that an > accurate description? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > Well I tried to update two pics but I keep getting a An unknown error > occurred on the Yahoo! Groups server. So I got at least one up. I will try > the basic upload to see if that helps. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Yes, fish can and do get cancer. However, is what you are seeing a cancer? > > That is a tough call. It may just be a cyst that has developed, or is > > developing. > > > > To post a photo, go to the group site > > (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife/ ) and on the left side > > there is a menu. Just click on Photos, and follow the instructions. > > > > The photo may help in a diagnosis, but you should also provide us with > your > > water parameters (temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and the > > results of any other tests you do), the side of the tank, the population > of > > the tank and any other things you feel may be of help to us. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > > > I noticed this huge bump on the side of my albino cat fish today and I was > > talked to someone and they said it might be a tumor. So I wanted to know. > > Do fish get cancerous tumors and if this is should I take her out? I want > > to post a few pics but I don't know how to. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49413	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Well I have noticed that she hasn't moved much from the corner of the tank. I fed my fish this morning and she didn't move. I hope she will be okay. You think it will go away? Will it pop? Should I take her out and get rid of her? Not sure what I should do. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > All thirteen of your photos are up there. Got to photos and click on view > all photos and you will see them. You might want to reduce the number by > deleting some of them. > > From what I see, this looks more like a sac filled with a fluid. Is that an > accurate description? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:47 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > Well I tried to update two pics but I keep getting a An unknown error > occurred on the Yahoo! Groups server. So I got at least one up. I will try > the basic upload to see if that helps. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Yes, fish can and do get cancer. However, is what you are seeing a cancer? > > That is a tough call. It may just be a cyst that has developed, or is > > developing. > > > > To post a photo, go to the group site > > (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife/ ) and on the left side > > there is a menu. Just click on Photos, and follow the instructions. > > > > The photo may help in a diagnosis, but you should also provide us with > your > > water parameters (temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and the > > results of any other tests you do), the side of the tank, the population > of > > the tank and any other things you feel may be of help to us. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > > > I noticed this huge bump on the side of my albino cat fish today and I was > > talked to someone and they said it might be a tumor. So I wanted to know. > > Do fish get cancerous tumors and if this is should I take her out? I want > > to post a few pics but I don't know how to. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49414	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Well I have noticed that she hasn't moved much from the corner of the tank. I fed my fish this morning and she didn't move. I hope she will be okay. You think it will go away? Will it pop? Should I take her out and get rid of her? Not sure what I should do. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "camdogkingsfan" <camdog@...> wrote: > > Sorry guys. Yahoo said there was an error so I kept trying. I deleted most of them. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > All thirteen of your photos are up there. Got to photos and click on view > > all photos and you will see them. You might want to reduce the number by > > deleting some of them. > > > > From what I see, this looks more like a sac filled with a fluid. Is that an > > accurate description? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:47 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > > > Well I tried to update two pics but I keep getting a An unknown error > > occurred on the Yahoo! Groups server. So I got at least one up. I will try > > the basic upload to see if that helps. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, fish can and do get cancer. However, is what you are seeing a cancer? > > > That is a tough call. It may just be a cyst that has developed, or is > > > developing. > > > > > > To post a photo, go to the group site > > > (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/aquaticlife/ ) and on the left side > > > there is a menu. Just click on Photos, and follow the instructions. > > > > > > The photo may help in a diagnosis, but you should also provide us with > > your > > > water parameters (temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and the > > > results of any other tests you do), the side of the tank, the population > > of > > > the tank and any other things you feel may be of help to us. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 1:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > > > > > I noticed this huge bump on the side of my albino cat fish today and I was > > > talked to someone and they said it might be a tumor. So I wanted to know. > > > Do fish get cancerous tumors and if this is should I take her out? I want > > > to post a few pics but I don't know how to. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49415	From: Inkmaker	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Is that a worm inside the bump? It could be an emerging Nematode from a cyst that has been there for weeks. Best to isolate the fish for the best of the others. If it is a Nematode there could be several repercussions. Isolation is best. Then you don't have to wory about the rest of the fish in the tank. Charles H

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49416	From: bill 1433	Date: 10/31/2010
Subject: AZOO-----Heaters

A problem here has caused me to look for a new heater and I'm wondering if anyone has experience with AZOO? Looking at the latest Fosters and Smith Catalog at item # CD-35084 on page 39, Azoo Titanium Electronic Heater # 300W, on sale now at $35.99. Does anyone have experience with this company and their products? Any help? Bill

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49417	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Not sure if it a worm. It looks more like a vain on it. I put her in a flooding breeder in the tank and watch her for a couple of days. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Inkmaker" <charles@...> wrote: > > > Is that a worm inside the bump? > It could be an emerging Nematode from a cyst that has been there for weeks. > Best to isolate the fish for the best of the others. If it is a Nematode there could be several repercussions. Isolation is best. Then you don't have to wory about the rest of the fish in the tank. > > Charles H >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49418	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

We still need tank parameters before we can properly try to help you diagnose what the bump is on your cory catfish. Such as size of tank, how often you clean (and how you clean the tank/filters), pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates. All of these can help narrow down what the problem might be. Amber On 10/31/2010 10:36 PM, camdogkingsfan wrote: > > Not sure if it a worm. It looks more like a vain on it. I put her in a > flooding breeder in the tank and watch her for a couple of days. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Inkmaker" <charles@...> wrote: > > > > > > Is that a worm inside the bump? > > It could be an emerging Nematode from a cyst that has been there for > weeks. > > Best to isolate the fish for the best of the others. If it is a > Nematode there could be several repercussions. Isolation is best. Then > you don't have to wory about the rest of the fish in the tank. > > > > Charles H > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49419	From: haecklers	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

How do you tell a female betta from a short-finned male? By the way she gets fat with eggs if you feed her a lot? Males get the potbelly when they stuff themselves, but the female full of eggs gets bigger and rounder, right? Asking because we have a female with really pretty long fins, and she flares her cheek flaps like a male. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > Are you certain that the female was actually a female? There are several bettas > without the long, gorgeous flowing fins that are quite aggressive. > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: LindaS <maxinatrillion@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 12:16:45 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas > > To add to the story Bill, yes. I was very surprized. I put her in the bowl he > was familiar with and I was on guard for her safety really. But, she just dived > right to him and tore his side fin(I don't know what that's called, a gill?) It > was immediate, and the poor guy didn't know she was even there probably. What I > should have done was put her in a clear plastic floating bowl of some kind, and > let them get to see each other a couple of times. Hindsight is 50/50. I like > them because I don't need an aquarium with them. Just like to watch them, it's > relaxing. You are right, in a big container, sometimes they hide in the folage, > and you can't see them. My light one, I have to jiggle the bowl sometimes to see > if he's still there. > Angel fish are really pretty too. I don't know the other. I'll look it up. > Linda > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49420	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

That I cannot say, other than the females that I have had develop an "egg tube" which looks like a little white dot or tiny tube in the anal area. The males do not have it. I am no expert on different bettas, but I am on a list where several members raise the different types. I have also been to local small fish stores owned by Vietnamese families and they have the type that look like females, but are actually aggressive males. I asked once if they were all females, as all of the bowls on the counter looked as though they held females only. The owner told me that they were males, the kind that they fight - I guess like cock-fighting. Needless to say, I did not support that store any longer. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: haecklers <haecklers@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 7:54:57 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breeding Bettas How do you tell a female betta from a short-finned male? By the way she gets fat with eggs if you feed her a lot? Males get the potbelly when they stuff themselves, but the female full of eggs gets bigger and rounder, right? Asking because we have a female with really pretty long fins, and she flares her cheek flaps like a male. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > Are you certain that the female was actually a female? There are several >bettas > without the long, gorgeous flowing fins that are quite aggressive. > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: LindaS <maxinatrillion@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 12:16:45 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas > > To add to the story Bill, yes. I was very surprized. I put her in the bowl he > was familiar with and I was on guard for her safety really. But, she just >dived > > right to him and tore his side fin(I don't know what that's called, a gill?) It > > was immediate, and the poor guy didn't know she was even there probably. What I > > should have done was put her in a clear plastic floating bowl of some kind, and > > let them get to see each other a couple of times. Hindsight is 50/50. I like > them because I don't need an aquarium with them. Just like to watch them, it's > relaxing. You are right, in a big container, sometimes they hide in the folage, > > and you can't see them. My light one, I have to jiggle the bowl sometimes to >see > > if he's still there. > Angel fish are really pretty too. I don't know the other. I'll look it up. > Linda > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE >-> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual >e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49421	From: cameu vidan	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Introduction to Characins

Most aquarists have owned some sort of characin at some time. Nearly all of the fish labeled as "tetras" fall into the characin family. It is believed that between 1500 to 2000 species of characins exist. They can be found throughout South and Central America, as well as southern Texas and much of Africa. They are arguably the most popular type of fish in the aquarium hobby. Physical Characteristics of CharacinsMost characins possess teeth and are carnivorous, but there are many that are also omnivorous and herbivorous. They also possess a distinctive adipose fin along the tail before the dorsal fin. However, characins and tetras lack barbels or whiskers, as well as hard spines in the dorsal and anal fins. Special care should be made to place aquariums containing characins in quiet, low-traffic environments. Characins are capable of hearing high-frequency sounds because they possess a small chain of bones that connects their air bladder to the inner ear. As a result they are very sensitive to movement and sound, and can be easily stressed by disturbances. Characins are usually schooling fish, preferring large groups. They possess special pheromones in their skin cells. When a fish is injured, pheromones are released into the water, sending a chemical alarm to other fish in the school. Tetras and other characins range widely in size, from half an inch to over five feet in length! Research should be conducted for any characin the aquarist plans on obtaining, and a suitably large aquarium should be provided for the respective species. General Care and Needs of Tetra Fish and Other CharacinsCharacins are primary-division freshwater fish, meaning the entire history of their evolution took place in freshwater. In contrast, the ancestors of secondary-division freshwater fish evolved from a marine environment. Because characin and tetras are primary-division fish and not secondary, the aquarist must exercise caution when adding salt to the water. Characin diets vary greatly, and the aquarist should take care to research and obtain the proper food for each species. When in doubt, provide a healthy and varied diet. Flake food, small pellets, and algae wafers are readily available, but also make an effort to include live foods such as blood worms, brine shrimp, and small fish. As with all fish, one of the critical keys to success in rearing is good water quality. If the characin in question has any special needs or water parameters, make sure they are met. Frequent, small water changes of 25-30 percent at least once a week are recommended. Not only will clean water improve fish health and reduce the risk of disease, but it will better simulate the fish’s natural environment by continually providing fresh water. This can also be key in stimulating tetras or characins to breed, often by simulating seasonal rainfall. Adequate filtration, water aeration, and heating are also a component. Tetras can often be hardy fish, but if their basic water parameters aren’t met, they can be difficult to keep alive. Characins and tetras are beautiful and eye-catching fish. With proper research and care, they can be housed in all manner of freshwater aquariums. Challenging and alluring, all aquarists should try their hand at raising characins. Source: Smith, Mark. Tetras and Other Characins. 2002. Copyright Aaron Guzman. Contact the author to obtain permission for republication. Credit : Introduction to Characins http://www.suite101.com/content/inroduction-to-characins-a229493#ixzz142vPGLEA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49422	From: LindaS	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas

I couldn't be certain it was a female. It's fins were slight on the bottom and not colorful at all, I'm thinking gray, it was a while ago. She was marked and sold as female. Don't know how else to determine but from that. The amazing thing was when she charged she was in a new place. The fish she charged was in his home. You would have thought he would have been the one integrated enough to attack, if there was going to be an attack at all. I thought their eyesight was supposed to be very short. I don't believe that anymore, they will follow your finger on the bowl. It was just a strange, upsetting experience.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49423	From: elijah258@sbcglobal.net	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: breeding pygmy gourami

how do you sex a pygmy gourami i want to breed them in a ten gallon i have five and i am not sure

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49424	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

Linda, I put a known female in a tank with a male and she went after him straight away. The best defense is a good offense? -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: LindaS <maxinatrillion@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:35 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas I couldn't be certain it was a female. It's fins were slight on the bottom and not colorful at all, I'm thinking gray, it was a while ago. She was marked and sold as female. Don't know how else to determine but from that. The amazing thing was when she charged she was in a new place. The fish she charged was in his home. You would have thought he would have been the one integrated enough to attack, if there was going to be an attack at all. I thought their eyesight was supposed to be very short. I don't believe that anymore, they will follow your finger on the bowl. It was just a strange, upsetting experience.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49425	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: breeding pygmy gourami

Can you upload some photos? -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: elijah258@... <elijah258@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Nov 1, 2010 10:38 am Subject: [AquaticLife] breeding pygmy gourami how do you sex a pygmy gourami i want to breed them in a ten gallon i have five and i am not sure

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49426	From: ScottW	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Little tiny white worms

I don't know where these things are coming from but I particularly notice them after water changes. They swim near the top and sort of swim vertically. My fish just seem to eat them, especially the angels. I have noticed them in all my tanks though. I have seen them in all my tanks but now I just see them in one of my peacock cichlid tanks. Let me tell you about my tanks: 55g peacock cichlids, rainbow, catfish 35g 4 angels, 3 pictus 29g 4 1.5" peacock cichlids 10g 7 apple snails, 2 platy 10g Puffer and betta (strange combo but working for now) (Using other ten to breed snails for Puffer) 10g 3 fiddler crabs (1F, 2M) guppies galore Thanks in advance for the help. Really just curious as to what those little white worms are. Scott

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49427	From: Mike	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Strawberry crab - a new species of crab

Marine biologists from the National Taiwan Ocean University discovered a new species of crab off the southern Taiwanese coast. With a bright red shell covered with small white spots, the crab resembles a large strawberry. Scientists at the University say that the newly discovered species is similar to the previously discovered Neoliomera pubescens http://ecolocalizer.com/tag/neoliomera-pubescens/ , which is native to the waters near Hawaii, Polynesia and Mauritius –but has a broader (1 inch), clam-shaped shell that makes it a distinct new species. http://e-fishingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/strawberry-crab1.jpg Professor Ho Ping-ho of the National Taiwan Ocean University http://english.ntou.edu.tw/ said he made the discovery while carrying out research on the environmental impact of a shipwreck last year on the beaches of southern Kenting National Park, known for its rich marine life. Crabs are omnivores feeding primarily on algae. There are more than 5,000 known species in the world. Amazing Fishing News http://www.e-fishingnews.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Edited by Moderator

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49428	From: Jonathan Deitner	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms

They are probably planaria worms. I have them right now in one of my tanks. They are pretty much harmless, though I think it is possible to get them in fishes gills. I am not sure how to get rid of them though, maybe try more water changes with a gravel siphon, since that's where they hang out alot. On Nov 1, 2010, at 2:39 PM, "ScottW" <kissinmera@...> wrote: > I don't know where these things are coming from but I particularly > notice them after water changes. They swim near the top and sort of > swim vertically. My fish just seem to eat them, especially the > angels. I have noticed them in all my tanks though. I have seen them > in all my tanks but now I just see them in one of my peacock cichlid > tanks. Let me tell you about my tanks: > > 55g > peacock cichlids, rainbow, catfish > > 35g > 4 angels, 3 pictus > > 29g > 4 1.5" peacock cichlids > > 10g > 7 apple snails, 2 platy > > 10g > Puffer and betta (strange combo but working for now) > (Using other ten to breed snails for Puffer) > > 10g > 3 fiddler crabs (1F, 2M) > guppies galore > > Thanks in advance for the help. Really just curious as to what those > little white worms are. > > Scott > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49429	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

From what I have read the ones with the name "Plakat" are the aggressive shorter finned males. I got 2 of them on the way, LOL. They are still colorful, but they have shorter fins, which means they don't get "weighed down" by the long fins like the fancier looking ones do, that's the main reason they are more aggressive. Amber On 11/1/2010 7:15 AM, Laurie Alaimo wrote: > > That I cannot say, other than the females that I have had develop an > "egg tube" > which looks like a little white dot or tiny tube in the anal area. The > males do > not have it. > > I am no expert on different bettas, but I am on a list where several > members > raise the different types. I have also been to local small fish stores > owned by > Vietnamese families and they have the type that look like females, but > are > actually aggressive males. I asked once if they were all females, as > all of the > bowls on the counter looked as though they held females only. The > owner told me > that they were males, the kind that they fight - I guess like > cock-fighting. > Needless to say, I did not support that store any longer. > > ~ Laurie > > ________________________________ > From: haecklers <haecklers@... <mailto:haecklers%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 7:54:57 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breeding Bettas > > How do you tell a female betta from a short-finned male? By the way > she gets > fat with eggs if you feed her a lot? Males get the potbelly when they > stuff > themselves, but the female full of eggs gets bigger and rounder, right? > > Asking because we have a female with really pretty long fins, and she > flares her > cheek flaps like a male. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Laurie Alaimo > <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > > > Are you certain that the female was actually a female? There are > several > >bettas > > without the long, gorgeous flowing fins that are quite aggressive. > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: LindaS <maxinatrillion@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 12:16:45 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas > > > > To add to the story Bill, yes. I was very surprized. I put her in > the bowl he > > was familiar with and I was on guard for her safety really. But, she > just > >dived > > > > right to him and tore his side fin(I don't know what that's called, > a gill?) It > > > > was immediate, and the poor guy didn't know she was even there > probably. What I > > > > should have done was put her in a clear plastic floating bowl of > some kind, and > > > > let them get to see each other a couple of times. Hindsight is > 50/50. I like > > them because I don't need an aquarium with them. Just like to watch > them, it's > > > relaxing. You are right, in a big container, sometimes they hide in > the folage, > > > > and you can't see them. My light one, I have to jiggle the bowl > sometimes to > >see > > > > if he's still there. > > Angel fish are really pretty too. I don't know the other. I'll look > it up. > > Linda > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE > >-> > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the home > > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > >e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49430	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms

If you don't do really good gravel cleanings (especially if it's a planted tank) you will often get planaria (they are flat like worms, and tend to move around like inch worms do, I have never seen mine swimming, but that doesn't mean that they don't do it while I"m not looking, LOL). How often do you gravel clean your tanks and how well do you do it? I have them in my mystery snail breeding tank because the tank is so heavily planted and it's hard to clean the gravel really well with plants growing in it. Amber On 11/1/2010 10:39 AM, ScottW wrote: > > I don't know where these things are coming from but I particularly > notice them after water changes. They swim near the top and sort of > swim vertically. My fish just seem to eat them, especially the angels. > I have noticed them in all my tanks though. I have seen them in all my > tanks but now I just see them in one of my peacock cichlid tanks. Let > me tell you about my tanks: > > 55g > peacock cichlids, rainbow, catfish > > 35g > 4 angels, 3 pictus > > 29g > 4 1.5" peacock cichlids > > 10g > 7 apple snails, 2 platy > > 10g > Puffer and betta (strange combo but working for now) > (Using other ten to breed snails for Puffer) > > 10g > 3 fiddler crabs (1F, 2M) > guppies galore > > Thanks in advance for the help. Really just curious as to what those > little white worms are. > > Scott > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49431	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

It could have been one of the wild type betta's, and possibly a male that was mismarked by the pet store employee's. The wild types are not as easy to tell apart the gender's as the fancier fin types. I will link a picture of the 2 plakat males I have on the way, to show how much shorter their fins are compared to the longer finned fancy males. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/558170660/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/558170660/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc If the link breaks you can find the photo's here (just sort by "last modified and they will be first) under Amber's 55 Gallon tank in the group photo's section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Amber On 11/1/2010 9:35 AM, LindaS wrote: > > I couldn't be certain it was a female. It's fins were slight on the > bottom and not colorful at all, I'm thinking gray, it was a while ago. > She was marked and sold as female. Don't know how else to determine > but from that. > The amazing thing was when she charged she was in a new place. The > fish she charged was in his home. You would have thought he would have > been the one integrated enough to attack, if there was going to be an > attack at all. I thought their eyesight was supposed to be very short. > I don't believe that anymore, they will follow your finger on the bowl. > It was just a strange, upsetting experience. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49432	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

that is one absolutely gorgeous purple betta!!!! now, please, do not tempt me anymore with these beautiful things, Amber. I.must.not.succumb.to.aquabid, Enid ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 5:14:54 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas It could have been one of the wild type betta's, and possibly a male that was mismarked by the pet store employee's. The wild types are not as easy to tell apart the gender's as the fancier fin types. I will link a picture of the 2 plakat males I have on the way, to show how much shorter their fins are compared to the longer finned fancy males. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/558170660/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/558170660/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc If the link breaks you can find the photo's here (just sort by "last modified and they will be first) under Amber's 55 Gallon tank in the group photo's section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Amber On 11/1/2010 9:35 AM, LindaS wrote: > > I couldn't be certain it was a female. It's fins were slight on the > bottom and not colorful at all, I'm thinking gray, it was a while ago. > She was marked and sold as female. Don't know how else to determine > but from that. > The amazing thing was when she charged she was in a new place. The > fish she charged was in his home. You would have thought he would have > been the one integrated enough to attack, if there was going to be an > attack at all. I thought their eyesight was supposed to be very short. > I don't believe that anymore, they will follow your finger on the bowl. > It was just a strange, upsetting experience. > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49433	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

Short finned males are plakat bettas. This is the type usually used for fighting. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 11:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Breeding Bettas That I cannot say, other than the females that I have had develop an "egg tube" which looks like a little white dot or tiny tube in the anal area. The males do not have it. I am no expert on different bettas, but I am on a list where several members raise the different types. I have also been to local small fish stores owned by Vietnamese families and they have the type that look like females, but are actually aggressive males. I asked once if they were all females, as all of the bowls on the counter looked as though they held females only. The owner told me that they were males, the kind that they fight - I guess like cock-fighting. Needless to say, I did not support that store any longer. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: haecklers <haecklers@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 7:54:57 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breeding Bettas How do you tell a female betta from a short-finned male? By the way she gets fat with eggs if you feed her a lot? Males get the potbelly when they stuff themselves, but the female full of eggs gets bigger and rounder, right? Asking because we have a female with really pretty long fins, and she flares her cheek flaps like a male. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > Are you certain that the female was actually a female? There are several >bettas > without the long, gorgeous flowing fins that are quite aggressive. > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: LindaS <maxinatrillion@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 12:16:45 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas > > To add to the story Bill, yes. I was very surprized. I put her in the bowl he > was familiar with and I was on guard for her safety really. But, she just >dived > > right to him and tore his side fin(I don't know what that's called, a gill?) It > > was immediate, and the poor guy didn't know she was even there probably. What I > > should have done was put her in a clear plastic floating bowl of some kind, and > > let them get to see each other a couple of times. Hindsight is 50/50. I like > them because I don't need an aquarium with them. Just like to watch them, it's > relaxing. You are right, in a big container, sometimes they hide in the folage, > > and you can't see them. My light one, I have to jiggle the bowl sometimes to >see > > if he's still there. > Angel fish are really pretty too. I don't know the other. I'll look it up. > Linda > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49434	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

That's why I bought him (because he's purple), LOL. I picked out the 2nd one (blue/red with stripes) when he was offered (since the shipping would be the same). The shipper is also sending me 4 females for only 3 dollars, so I'm getting 7 betta's from him. I think the females are mostly all red, the photo's of mom/dad were pretty. Both were regular sized betta's so the females are all regular sized as well. I'm not sure how that will work for breeding, the males are already around 3 inches long with their fins included. I've considered breeding them, but I have more research to do before I decide. I'd need more shelves so I could put little betta cups all over the house, LOL. Just what hubby wants to see I'm sure ;) Amber On 11/1/2010 2:37 PM, Enid Rodriguez wrote: > > that is one absolutely gorgeous purple betta!!!! now, please, do not > tempt me > anymore with these beautiful things, Amber. I.must.not.succumb.to.aquabid, > Enid > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 5:14:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas > > It could have been one of the wild type betta's, and possibly a male > that was mismarked by the pet store employee's. The wild types are not > as easy to tell apart the gender's as the fancier fin types. > I will link a picture of the 2 plakat males I have on the way, to show > how much shorter their fins are compared to the longer finned fancy males. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/558170660/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/558170660/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/558170660/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/558170660/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> > > If the link breaks you can find the photo's here (just sort by "last > modified and they will be first) under Amber's 55 Gallon tank in the > group photo's section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/list?mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> > > Amber > > On 11/1/2010 9:35 AM, LindaS wrote: > > > > I couldn't be certain it was a female. It's fins were slight on the > > bottom and not colorful at all, I'm thinking gray, it was a while ago. > > She was marked and sold as female. Don't know how else to determine > > but from that. > > The amazing thing was when she charged she was in a new place. The > > fish she charged was in his home. You would have thought he would have > > been the one integrated enough to attack, if there was going to be an > > attack at all. I thought their eyesight was supposed to be very short. > > I don't believe that anymore, they will follow your finger on the bowl. > > It was just a strange, upsetting experience. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49435	From: camdogkingsfan	Date: 11/1/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Well my tank size is 50 gallons, I cleaned it about 5 weeks ago, I have Marineland Emperor power filer, and I don't know the ammonia, PH, nitrares, or nitite in my tank cause I never test them. I know that may seem like a problem but I have had my tank and fish for several years and never had to test the water. I hope this helps. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > We still need tank parameters before we can properly try to help you > diagnose what the bump is on your cory catfish. Such as size of tank, > how often you clean (and how you clean the tank/filters), pH, ammonia, > nitrite, and nitrates. All of these can help narrow down what the > problem might be. > > Amber > > On 10/31/2010 10:36 PM, camdogkingsfan wrote: > > > > Not sure if it a worm. It looks more like a vain on it. I put her in a > > flooding breeder in the tank and watch her for a couple of days. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Inkmaker" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is that a worm inside the bump? > > > It could be an emerging Nematode from a cyst that has been there for > > weeks. > > > Best to isolate the fish for the best of the others. If it is a > > Nematode there could be several repercussions. Isolation is best. Then > > you don't have to wory about the rest of the fish in the tank. > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49436	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Water testing is important. Two measures are for compounds that are toxic to fish. When a tank is first established, daily testing is needed until readings stabilize. pH can be anywhere is a wide range, but is important as it will determine the fish you can successfully keep, though most fish can adjust to a wide range of pH, but they will not necessarily do well if the pH is out of their normal range. As the tank becomes stabilized, water testing still needs to be checked on a regular basis, as frequently as weekly, or infrequently as monthly. Ammonia is toxic to fish. A small amount will not out and out kill your fish, but it does place them under stress, which opens them to disease, and possibly disease. Ammonia should test a 0. Nitrites are also toxic to fish. It should also test at 0. Nitrates are not so toxic. It is the last step, in aquariums, of the biological cycle. In a high enough concentration, it will affect your fish adversely. It can be controlled by the use of plants and regular weekly, or more frequent, water changes. The lower the better. Get yourself a master test kit. Let us know what the measurements are. You may actually be OK, but I would suspect that you will need to make some adjustments. Any changes will need to be made slowly so as not to be made slowly to prevent stressing the fish any more than they already may be. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of camdogkingsfan Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 1:21 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. Well my tank size is 50 gallons, I cleaned it about 5 weeks ago, I have Marineland Emperor power filer, and I don't know the ammonia, PH, nitrares, or nitite in my tank cause I never test them. I know that may seem like a problem but I have had my tank and fish for several years and never had to test the water. I hope this helps. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > We still need tank parameters before we can properly try to help you > diagnose what the bump is on your cory catfish. Such as size of tank, > how often you clean (and how you clean the tank/filters), pH, ammonia, > nitrite, and nitrates. All of these can help narrow down what the > problem might be. > > Amber > > On 10/31/2010 10:36 PM, camdogkingsfan wrote: > > > > Not sure if it a worm. It looks more like a vain on it. I put her in a > > flooding breeder in the tank and watch her for a couple of days. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Inkmaker" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is that a worm inside the bump? > > > It could be an emerging Nematode from a cyst that has been there for > > weeks. > > > Best to isolate the fish for the best of the others. If it is a > > Nematode there could be several repercussions. Isolation is best. Then > > you don't have to wory about the rest of the fish in the tank. > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49437	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish

Hello Steve: Okay...Challenge on. Dragonfish, and the Dinosaur Eel (long finned polpterids). That should do it. For an alternate I might add the Clown trigger or the Elephant nose fish. I can see it all now; Hurry, nurry...step right up ladies and gentlemen and see the amazing fish with the nose of an elephant. No this is not trickery, just of nature's oddest couplings. Happy post HALLOWEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have a Great day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 2:31:11 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish   You only need two more aquatic creatures to reach your 10. Come on, you can do it! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 11:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish Hello Steve: Thanx for the list but they left out a few key species; The Bleeding Heart Tetra, Ghost Shrimp, Decorator Crabs, Hatchet fish, Clown Knife Fish, Brown Ghost Fish, Halloween Crabs, The ever infamous...Red Devil, and one little bird to watch over them all; The Cut-Throat Finch. Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 6:10:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3305&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_29_2010&utm_term=The_worlds_top_10_Halloween_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2628dv7 \\Steve// Happy Halloween! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49438	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Gosh Steve, I think you needed more coffee before you wrote this ;) Just a couple typos that are confusing, LOL. Also I'd have to guess that once every 5 week or more cleanings isn't enough unless it's a very lightly stocked tank (which is unlikely but possible). If I waited that long my fish would start to die off, LOL. Amber On 11/2/2010 1:59 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Water testing is important. Two measures are for compounds that are > toxic to > fish. When a tank is first established, daily testing is needed until > readings stabilize. pH can be anywhere is a wide range, but is > important as > it will determine the fish you can successfully keep, though most fish can > adjust to a wide range of pH, but they will not necessarily do well if the > pH is out of their normal range. As the tank becomes stabilized, water > testing still needs to be checked on a regular basis, as frequently as > weekly, or infrequently as monthly. > > Ammonia is toxic to fish. A small amount will not out and out kill your > fish, but it does place them under stress, which opens them to > disease, and > possibly disease. Ammonia should test a 0. Nitrites are also toxic to > fish. > It should also test at 0. Nitrates are not so toxic. It is the last > step, in > aquariums, of the biological cycle. In a high enough concentration, it > will > affect your fish adversely. It can be controlled by the use of plants and > regular weekly, or more frequent, water changes. The lower the better. > > Get yourself a master test kit. Let us know what the measurements are. You > may actually be OK, but I would suspect that you will need to make some > adjustments. Any changes will need to be made slowly so as not to be made > slowly to prevent stressing the fish any more than they already may be. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 1:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > Well my tank size is 50 gallons, I cleaned it about 5 weeks ago, I have > Marineland Emperor power filer, and I don't know the ammonia, PH, > nitrares, > or nitite in my tank cause I never test them. I know that may seem like a > problem but I have had my tank and fish for several years and never had to > test the water. I hope this helps. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > We still need tank parameters before we can properly try to help you > > diagnose what the bump is on your cory catfish. Such as size of tank, > > how often you clean (and how you clean the tank/filters), pH, ammonia, > > nitrite, and nitrates. All of these can help narrow down what the > > problem might be. > > > > Amber > > > > On 10/31/2010 10:36 PM, camdogkingsfan wrote: > > > > > > Not sure if it a worm. It looks more like a vain on it. I put her > in a > > > flooding breeder in the tank and watch her for a couple of days. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Inkmaker" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that a worm inside the bump? > > > > It could be an emerging Nematode from a cyst that has been there > for > > > weeks. > > > > Best to isolate the fish for the best of the others. If it is a > > > Nematode there could be several repercussions. Isolation is best. > Then > > > you don't have to wory about the rest of the fish in the tank. > > > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49439	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

I think you should name the purple one Prince (after the artist formerly known as...) because one of his most famous outfits is purple with ruffles, much like your fish. And the other can be Elvis for his blue suede shoes. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I'm getting both of the males (one is a reddish/purple), the 2nd has > several colors (mostly blue, with some light blue striping in his > fins/tail and some red on his fins closest to his body, he looks > gorgeous, can't wait to see these 2 giants in person). Both are nearly 3 > inches long including fins, and they're about 6 months old, so they > still have some growing to do I think (at least in the fins they do). > They are both giant 1/2 moon plakats. I'm also getting 3 "regular" > females, he didn't tell me the fin types but he's only charging me $1 > each for the females so it's still a great deal. He currently has fry > he's raising and they will be ready in 6 months, in case you happen to > go searching aquabid later next year :) He is in Louisiana, can't > remember where you're at off the top of my head, but I think you're > somewhere on the east coast-ish. > Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. > Not sure if the females will be big enough to breed with the males, will > find out later I suppose ;) I wonder if hubby will let me have little > betta bowls all over the house? LOL. > > Amber > > On 10/29/2010 9:31 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Oooooh, congratulations on finding fish that you are happy with, > > Amber! I hope you find mates for your new studs. > > > > Poking around on Aquabid, I could easily spend the (HA!) family > > fortune on the beautiful fish they offer for sale. I'd buy them all if > > I could. > > > > My Moo Shu looked purple in the store but here under my desk lamp's > > light is more of a light indigo or dark periwinkle. Definitely a lot > > more blue than purple. And in just a couple of weeks, his fins have > > grown to reveal that he is a spade tail -- a tail shape that faded > > away about 10 years ago so he's a bit of a throw-back. > > > > Spare Rib is my latest addition to replace Sweet and Sour. His fins > > are red and his body is a pale pinkish purple. I think some breeders > > are calling it "orchid." He has great color, but lousy fins. Raggedy. > > > > I always say it but I never actually do it... "Next fish" I'll bite > > the bullet and pay for shipping to get a GOOD Betta. Yeah, right. Sure > > I will. I'm glad you're living my dream, Amber! GO FOR IT!!! > > ~Kai > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > > > > I've gotten a hold of a breeder for betta's (they imported from > > thailand and already acclimated them he kept a few to breed them, and > > is selling the rest), I have at least 1 (purple!) betta picked out, > > I'm negotiating a 2nd one (I'm not sure hubby will pay $40 for him, > > but he sure is gorgeous!), and fortunately for me he is willing to > > ship on my fedex account number so my shipping shouldn't be more than > > 25-30 dollars. I don't mind having fish shipped in myself, but I fully > > understand why you don't want to do it. The only reason why I'm not so > > hesitant is because I've had good success getting the fish here alive > > and healthy in just 1 day transit time, and I know I'm getting a good > > quality fish, unlike my LFS (half the time their fish are sick with > > something, but at least they refuse to sell the sick fish until their > > healthy!). > > > Good luck on your search Kai, if I get to breeding these giant > > bettas in the future I'll let you know when I have babies :) And I'll > > post lots of pics, LOL. Now I just need to find some giant females to > > go with these giant males. > > > I've picked out a purple halfmoon plakat, and a red/blue halfmoon > > plakat (the $40 one), he unfortunately already sold his 2 giant > > females and is keeping the other 2 for himself. These guys are 3 times > > bigger than normal sized betta's, can't wait to see them in person, > > they look gorgeous in pictures. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49440	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Thanks :) I love the name choices. Did you check out the pics of them in the other betta thread? I posted links yesterday. The shipper is sending them out today, so I should get them tomorrow (weather permitting). The purple one pulled a suicide attempt while the shipper was trying to bag him yesterday, so we decided to wait a day to see how he was doing from the jump onto the floor before sending him out. Darn fish don't like to cooperate when you're trying to move them out of their tank ;) LOL. Amber On 11/2/2010 6:56 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > I think you should name the purple one Prince (after the artist > formerly known as...) because one of his most famous outfits is purple > with ruffles, much like your fish. And the other can be Elvis for his > blue suede shoes. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I'm getting both of the males (one is a reddish/purple), the 2nd has > > several colors (mostly blue, with some light blue striping in his > > fins/tail and some red on his fins closest to his body, he looks > > gorgeous, can't wait to see these 2 giants in person). Both are > nearly 3 > > inches long including fins, and they're about 6 months old, so they > > still have some growing to do I think (at least in the fins they do). > > They are both giant 1/2 moon plakats. I'm also getting 3 "regular" > > females, he didn't tell me the fin types but he's only charging me $1 > > each for the females so it's still a great deal. He currently has fry > > he's raising and they will be ready in 6 months, in case you happen to > > go searching aquabid later next year :) He is in Louisiana, can't > > remember where you're at off the top of my head, but I think you're > > somewhere on the east coast-ish. > > Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. > > Not sure if the females will be big enough to breed with the males, > will > > find out later I suppose ;) I wonder if hubby will let me have little > > betta bowls all over the house? LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > On 10/29/2010 9:31 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > Oooooh, congratulations on finding fish that you are happy with, > > > Amber! I hope you find mates for your new studs. > > > > > > Poking around on Aquabid, I could easily spend the (HA!) family > > > fortune on the beautiful fish they offer for sale. I'd buy them > all if > > > I could. > > > > > > My Moo Shu looked purple in the store but here under my desk lamp's > > > light is more of a light indigo or dark periwinkle. Definitely a lot > > > more blue than purple. And in just a couple of weeks, his fins have > > > grown to reveal that he is a spade tail -- a tail shape that faded > > > away about 10 years ago so he's a bit of a throw-back. > > > > > > Spare Rib is my latest addition to replace Sweet and Sour. His fins > > > are red and his body is a pale pinkish purple. I think some breeders > > > are calling it "orchid." He has great color, but lousy fins. Raggedy. > > > > > > I always say it but I never actually do it... "Next fish" I'll bite > > > the bullet and pay for shipping to get a GOOD Betta. Yeah, right. > Sure > > > I will. I'm glad you're living my dream, Amber! GO FOR IT!!! > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > > > > > > I've gotten a hold of a breeder for betta's (they imported from > > > thailand and already acclimated them he kept a few to breed them, and > > > is selling the rest), I have at least 1 (purple!) betta picked out, > > > I'm negotiating a 2nd one (I'm not sure hubby will pay $40 for him, > > > but he sure is gorgeous!), and fortunately for me he is willing to > > > ship on my fedex account number so my shipping shouldn't be more than > > > 25-30 dollars. I don't mind having fish shipped in myself, but I > fully > > > understand why you don't want to do it. The only reason why I'm > not so > > > hesitant is because I've had good success getting the fish here alive > > > and healthy in just 1 day transit time, and I know I'm getting a good > > > quality fish, unlike my LFS (half the time their fish are sick with > > > something, but at least they refuse to sell the sick fish until their > > > healthy!). > > > > Good luck on your search Kai, if I get to breeding these giant > > > bettas in the future I'll let you know when I have babies :) And I'll > > > post lots of pics, LOL. Now I just need to find some giant females to > > > go with these giant males. > > > > I've picked out a purple halfmoon plakat, and a red/blue halfmoon > > > plakat (the $40 one), he unfortunately already sold his 2 giant > > > females and is keeping the other 2 for himself. These guys are 3 > times > > > bigger than normal sized betta's, can't wait to see them in person, > > > they look gorgeous in pictures. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49441	From: Walden	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

A female will have a white spot on its anus. This is often called the egg spot. With experience you can also tell from the shape of the head. If you shine a light through the fish you can see the ovaries which will be a triangle shaped area. Wally --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > How do you tell a female betta from a short-finned male? By the way she gets fat with eggs if you feed her a lot? Males get the potbelly when they stuff themselves, but the female full of eggs gets bigger and rounder, right? > > Asking because we have a female with really pretty long fins, and she flares her cheek flaps like a male. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > Are you certain that the female was actually a female? There are several bettas > > without the long, gorgeous flowing fins that are quite aggressive. > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: LindaS <maxinatrillion@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 12:16:45 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Bettas > > > > To add to the story Bill, yes. I was very surprized. I put her in the bowl he > > was familiar with and I was on guard for her safety really. But, she just dived > > right to him and tore his side fin(I don't know what that's called, a gill?) It > > was immediate, and the poor guy didn't know she was even there probably. What I > > should have done was put her in a clear plastic floating bowl of some kind, and > > let them get to see each other a couple of times. Hindsight is 50/50. I like > > them because I don't need an aquarium with them. Just like to watch them, it's > > relaxing. You are right, in a big container, sometimes they hide in the folage, > > and you can't see them. My light one, I have to jiggle the bowl sometimes to see > > if he's still there. > > Angel fish are really pretty too. I don't know the other. I'll look it up. > > Linda > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49442	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish

Or Parrot Fish and those radioactive Danios (lol). ________________________________ From: "Deenerz@..." <Deenerz@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 6:02:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish   Frankenfish aka Flowerhorns! -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, Oct 31, 2010 11:31 am Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish You only need two more aquatic creatures to reach your 10. Come on, you can do it! \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john Lewis Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 11:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish Hello Steve: Thanx for the list but they left out a few key species; The Bleeding Heart Tetra, Ghost Shrimp, Decorator Crabs, Hatchet fish, Clown Knife Fish, Brown Ghost Fish, Halloween Crabs, The ever infamous...Red Devil, and one little bird to watch over them all; The Cut-Throat Finch. Have a Great Day!!! Spawn ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 6:10:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] The World's Top 10 Halloween Fish http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3305&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=October_29_2010&utm_term=The_worlds_top_10_Halloween_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2628dv7 \\Steve// Happy Halloween! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49443	From: ScottW	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms

Thanks for all the comments. Looks like I need to do PWC and more thoroughly. The worms are harmless :). So far they have not caused any problems. Scott --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > If you don't do really good gravel cleanings (especially if it's a > planted tank) you will often get planaria (they are flat like worms, and > tend to move around like inch worms do, I have never seen mine swimming, > but that doesn't mean that they don't do it while I"m not looking, LOL). > How often do you gravel clean your tanks and how well do you do it? I > have them in my mystery snail breeding tank because the tank is so > heavily planted and it's hard to clean the gravel really well with > plants growing in it. > > Amber > > On 11/1/2010 10:39 AM, ScottW wrote: > > > > I don't know where these things are coming from but I particularly > > notice them after water changes. They swim near the top and sort of > > swim vertically. My fish just seem to eat them, especially the angels. > > I have noticed them in all my tanks though. I have seen them in all my > > tanks but now I just see them in one of my peacock cichlid tanks. Let > > me tell you about my tanks: > > > > 55g > > peacock cichlids, rainbow, catfish > > > > 35g > > 4 angels, 3 pictus > > > > 29g > > 4 1.5" peacock cichlids > > > > 10g > > 7 apple snails, 2 platy > > > > 10g > > Puffer and betta (strange combo but working for now) > > (Using other ten to breed snails for Puffer) > > > > 10g > > 3 fiddler crabs (1F, 2M) > > guppies galore > > > > Thanks in advance for the help. Really just curious as to what those > > little white worms are. > > > > Scott > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49444	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Oh, I hope Prince will be OK. Yes, they're gorgeous. Be sure to post lots of pictures of them once they're home. :o) I keep promising myself that I'll get GOOD Bettas "next time." Maybe next time I actually will. ~Kai > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Thanks :) I love the name choices. Did you check out the pics of them in the other betta thread? I posted links yesterday. > The shipper is sending them out today, so I should get them tomorrow (weather permitting). The purple one pulled a suicide attempt while the shipper was trying to bag him yesterday, so we decided to wait a day to see how he was doing from the jump onto the floor before sending him out. Darn fish don't like to cooperate when you're trying to move them out of their tank ;) LOL. > > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I think you should name the purple one Prince (after the artist formerly known as...) because one of his most famous outfits is purple with ruffles, much like your fish. And the other can be Elvis for his blue suede shoes. > > ~Kai > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > SNIPPED > > > Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. > > > SNIPPED

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49445	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

Amber, I am not seeing any typos in there, just some strange sentence construction, likely when I was paying attention to the morning news, and wondering how it is to live in darkness all day, as the period you are moving inexorably toward at this time of year. Important points: 1. One needs to test water parameters regularly. 2. Water changes need to be done on a weekly, or more frequent, basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 10:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. Gosh Steve, I think you needed more coffee before you wrote this ;) Just a couple typos that are confusing, LOL. Also I'd have to guess that once every 5 week or more cleanings isn't enough unless it's a very lightly stocked tank (which is unlikely but possible). If I waited that long my fish would start to die off, LOL. Amber On 11/2/2010 1:59 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Water testing is important. Two measures are for compounds that are > toxic to > fish. When a tank is first established, daily testing is needed until > readings stabilize. pH can be anywhere is a wide range, but is > important as > it will determine the fish you can successfully keep, though most fish can > adjust to a wide range of pH, but they will not necessarily do well if the > pH is out of their normal range. As the tank becomes stabilized, water > testing still needs to be checked on a regular basis, as frequently as > weekly, or infrequently as monthly. > > Ammonia is toxic to fish. A small amount will not out and out kill your > fish, but it does place them under stress, which opens them to > disease, and > possibly disease. Ammonia should test a 0. Nitrites are also toxic to > fish. > It should also test at 0. Nitrates are not so toxic. It is the last > step, in > aquariums, of the biological cycle. In a high enough concentration, it > will > affect your fish adversely. It can be controlled by the use of plants and > regular weekly, or more frequent, water changes. The lower the better. > > Get yourself a master test kit. Let us know what the measurements are. You > may actually be OK, but I would suspect that you will need to make some > adjustments. Any changes will need to be made slowly so as not to be made > slowly to prevent stressing the fish any more than they already may be. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 1:21 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > Well my tank size is 50 gallons, I cleaned it about 5 weeks ago, I have > Marineland Emperor power filer, and I don't know the ammonia, PH, > nitrares, > or nitite in my tank cause I never test them. I know that may seem like a > problem but I have had my tank and fish for several years and never had to > test the water. I hope this helps. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > We still need tank parameters before we can properly try to help you > > diagnose what the bump is on your cory catfish. Such as size of tank, > > how often you clean (and how you clean the tank/filters), pH, ammonia, > > nitrite, and nitrates. All of these can help narrow down what the > > problem might be. > > > > Amber > > > > On 10/31/2010 10:36 PM, camdogkingsfan wrote: > > > > > > Not sure if it a worm. It looks more like a vain on it. I put her > in a > > > flooding breeder in the tank and watch her for a couple of days. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Inkmaker" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that a worm inside the bump? > > > > It could be an emerging Nematode from a cyst that has been there > for > > > weeks. > > > > Best to isolate the fish for the best of the others. If it is a > > > Nematode there could be several repercussions. Isolation is best. > Then > > > you don't have to wory about the rest of the fish in the tank. > > > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49446	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

It's not darkness all day, but it's close to it ;) We get sunrise around 8 am and sunset around 4-5pm. And more than half the spring/fall/winter is raining so it's overcast and there's not much sun to be seen through all the cloud cover. Just got done with my weekly cleaning's myself. I admit I don't test my water parameters on a regular basis, but I did go out and buy a new API master test kit so I can start doing my water tests again. Thanks for the clarification ;) Amber On 11/2/2010 7:08 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > I am not seeing any typos in there, just some strange sentence > construction, > likely when I was paying attention to the morning news, and wondering > how it > is to live in darkness all day, as the period you are moving inexorably > toward at this time of year. > > Important points: > 1. One needs to test water parameters regularly. > 2. Water changes need to be done on a weekly, or more frequent, > basis. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 10:36 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > Gosh Steve, I think you needed more coffee before you wrote this ;) Just > a couple typos that are confusing, LOL. > > Also I'd have to guess that once every 5 week or more cleanings isn't > enough unless it's a very lightly stocked tank (which is unlikely but > possible). If I waited that long my fish would start to die off, LOL. > > Amber > > On 11/2/2010 1:59 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Water testing is important. Two measures are for compounds that are > > toxic to > > fish. When a tank is first established, daily testing is needed until > > readings stabilize. pH can be anywhere is a wide range, but is > > important as > > it will determine the fish you can successfully keep, though most > fish can > > adjust to a wide range of pH, but they will not necessarily do well > if the > > pH is out of their normal range. As the tank becomes stabilized, water > > testing still needs to be checked on a regular basis, as frequently as > > weekly, or infrequently as monthly. > > > > Ammonia is toxic to fish. A small amount will not out and out kill your > > fish, but it does place them under stress, which opens them to > > disease, and > > possibly disease. Ammonia should test a 0. Nitrites are also toxic to > > fish. > > It should also test at 0. Nitrates are not so toxic. It is the last > > step, in > > aquariums, of the biological cycle. In a high enough concentration, it > > will > > affect your fish adversely. It can be controlled by the use of > plants and > > regular weekly, or more frequent, water changes. The lower the better. > > > > Get yourself a master test kit. Let us know what the measurements > are. You > > may actually be OK, but I would suspect that you will need to make some > > adjustments. Any changes will need to be made slowly so as not to be > made > > slowly to prevent stressing the fish any more than they already may be. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of camdogkingsfan > > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 1:21 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish. > > > > Well my tank size is 50 gallons, I cleaned it about 5 weeks ago, I have > > Marineland Emperor power filer, and I don't know the ammonia, PH, > > nitrares, > > or nitite in my tank cause I never test them. I know that may seem > like a > > problem but I have had my tank and fish for several years and never > had to > > test the water. I hope this helps. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > We still need tank parameters before we can properly try to help you > > > diagnose what the bump is on your cory catfish. Such as size of tank, > > > how often you clean (and how you clean the tank/filters), pH, ammonia, > > > nitrite, and nitrates. All of these can help narrow down what the > > > problem might be. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 10/31/2010 10:36 PM, camdogkingsfan wrote: > > > > > > > > Not sure if it a worm. It looks more like a vain on it. I put her > > in a > > > > flooding breeder in the tank and watch her for a couple of days. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Inkmaker" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that a worm inside the bump? > > > > > It could be an emerging Nematode from a cyst that has been there > > for > > > > weeks. > > > > > Best to isolate the fish for the best of the others. If it is a > > > > Nematode there could be several repercussions. Isolation is best. > > Then > > > > you don't have to wory about the rest of the fish in the tank. > > > > > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49447	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

The seller said Prince was acting just like normal, so he shipped them all out today. I'm a tad worried that they'll get too warm, he put 6 heat packs in the box, LOL. I'm going to open it up as soon as I get it tomorrow and check the temps and if I don't have too much work tomorrow I can take a longer lunch to acclimate them, otherwise I'll have to leave them in their bags until I get off of work around 4-5pm. But my house temps are 76-78 so they would be fine since they can breathe air. Should I leave the bags sealed or transfer them to large bowls until I get home? I'm not sure I can find lids for all the bowls and I would worry that the cats might jump onto a counter and play with the fish. I've never caught them on the counter but you never know what they're doing when you're not home! Amber On 11/2/2010 12:38 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Oh, I hope Prince will be OK. Yes, they're gorgeous. Be sure to post > lots of pictures of them once they're home. :o) > > I keep promising myself that I'll get GOOD Bettas "next time." Maybe > next time I actually will. > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Thanks :) I love the name choices. Did you check out the pics of > them in the other betta thread? I posted links yesterday. > > The shipper is sending them out today, so I should get them tomorrow > (weather permitting). The purple one pulled a suicide attempt while > the shipper was trying to bag him yesterday, so we decided to wait a > day to see how he was doing from the jump onto the floor before > sending him out. Darn fish don't like to cooperate when you're trying > to move them out of their tank ;) LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I think you should name the purple one Prince (after the artist > formerly known as...) because one of his most famous outfits is purple > with ruffles, much like your fish. And the other can be Elvis for his > blue suede shoes. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > > SNIPPED > > > > Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. > > > > SNIPPED > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49448	From: LindaS	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas

Thanks Amber, that is a pretty fish. The ones we have in this area don't have the trifold fins. They have one long curtain type fin. Those are the males. I had a really pretty one that was all white with blue fins. Don't see them anymore. The one I had that was so nice and would have probably been a good breeder, with the right person/place, he was a crown fish. With curly ends and flared a little more. Your fish are gorgeous. I am glad to know I'm not the only one that did that. You always hear about the males attacking and that's what I was prepared for. The 'Blind Side' got me. LindaS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49449	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/2/2010
Subject: Birthday Reminder

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Thursday November 4, 2010 Time:   All Day Repeats:   This event repeats every year. Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Yahoo! Greetings:   Send a Yahoo! Greeting Yahoo! Shopping:   Browse Yahoo! Shopping Gift Guide   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49450	From: Ray	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Amber, With cats around, and with your not being there, anything can happen. As long as the bag water looks fairly clear, the fish should be alright until you get off from work later today -- especially if the bags haven't collapsed to the point of having little air. If you have the time to open the bags, but no time to acclimate them, do so and give them a fresh supply of air then tie up the bags again until you get home from work. For any bags in which the water appears even the slightest cloudy, I'd attend to it ASAP, putting the fish in a bowl if you can find a lid, and giving them at least a PWC until you have more time later to attend to them. Wow, with your house temp where it is, you could almost breed Discus -- without even needing a heater < g >. Yes, I'd say that 6 heat packs is overkill to say the least. The shipper must think you're up at Barrow or Prudhoe Bay. I seem to remember your saying you lived in Ketchican. If so, your weather lately is better than what I've been having down here near New York City (but in NJ), where I had 29 o last night (28 o the night before) and expect only 46 o today (48 o yesterday) with full sun. I notice you had 46 o last night and it will be 51 o today, but with rain; that's not too bad -- and certainly doesn't require 6 heat packs. Yes, check those fish as soon as they come in, for their temperature. BTW, your daylight hours in the winter aren't very much shorter than what I get around here, if what you're saying is fairly accurate. At the Winter Solstice (December 21), the shortest daylight hour day of the year, the sun rises here at 7:17 AM EDT and sets at 4:32 PM EDT, a period of 9 hours and 15 minutes of actual sun -- without the pre-dawn and the dusk light. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > The seller said Prince was acting just like normal, so he shipped them > all out today. > I'm a tad worried that they'll get too warm, he put 6 heat packs in the > box, LOL. I'm going to open it up as soon as I get it tomorrow and check > the temps and if I don't have too much work tomorrow I can take a longer > lunch to acclimate them, otherwise I'll have to leave them in their bags > until I get off of work around 4-5pm. But my house temps are 76-78 so > they would be fine since they can breathe air. > Should I leave the bags sealed or transfer them to large bowls until I > get home? I'm not sure I can find lids for all the bowls and I would > worry that the cats might jump onto a counter and play with the fish. > I've never caught them on the counter but you never know what they're > doing when you're not home! > > Amber > > On 11/2/2010 12:38 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Oh, I hope Prince will be OK. Yes, they're gorgeous. Be sure to post > > lots of pictures of them once they're home. :o) > > > > I keep promising myself that I'll get GOOD Bettas "next time." Maybe > > next time I actually will. > > ~Kai > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > Thanks :) I love the name choices. Did you check out the pics of > > them in the other betta thread? I posted links yesterday. > > > The shipper is sending them out today, so I should get them tomorrow > > (weather permitting). The purple one pulled a suicide attempt while > > the shipper was trying to bag him yesterday, so we decided to wait a > > day to see how he was doing from the jump onto the floor before > > sending him out. Darn fish don't like to cooperate when you're trying > > to move them out of their tank ;) LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I think you should name the purple one Prince (after the artist > > formerly known as...) because one of his most famous outfits is purple > > with ruffles, much like your fish. And the other can be Elvis for his > > blue suede shoes. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49451	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Thanks Ray, I will check the bags for cloudiness as well as the temps. I'm sure I can find a few bowls to transfer them to if need be. I had thought about getting discus a year or so ago, but they're so expensive at my LFS when they get them in. I didn't want to spend so much on a fish that I may or may not kill (I was still learning the ropes a year or so ago). Our temps have been in the upper 40's this week, last week it dropped down a bit and we had black ice and cars in the ditches. I'm hoping we get rain for awhile longer (I'll take rain instead of ice any day). I can't remember exactly how short our shortest day of the year is... but I think we get around 6-7 hours of light that day (at least, maybe more). Our problem is that it's so overcast from all of the rain that you can't really see the sun even when it's shining ;) Amber On 11/3/2010 4:01 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > Amber, With cats around, and with your not being there, anything can > happen. As long as the bag water looks fairly clear, the fish should > be alright until you get off from work later today -- especially if > the bags haven't collapsed to the point of having little air. If you > have the time to open the bags, but no time to acclimate them, do so > and give them a fresh supply of air then tie up the bags again until > you get home from work. For any bags in which the water appears even > the slightest cloudy, I'd attend to it ASAP, putting the fish in a > bowl if you can find a lid, and giving them at least a PWC until you > have more time later to attend to them. > > Wow, with your house temp where it is, you could almost breed Discus > -- without even needing a heater < g >. Yes, I'd say that 6 heat packs > is overkill to say the least. The shipper must think you're up at > Barrow or Prudhoe Bay. I seem to remember your saying you lived in > Ketchican. If so, your weather lately is better than what I've been > having down here near New York City (but in NJ), where I had 29 o last > night (28 o the night before) and expect only 46 o today (48 o > yesterday) with full sun. I notice you had 46 o last night and it will > be 51 o today, but with rain; that's not too bad -- and certainly > doesn't require 6 heat packs. Yes, check those fish as soon as they > come in, for their temperature. > > BTW, your daylight hours in the winter aren't very much shorter than > what I get around here, if what you're saying is fairly accurate. At > the Winter Solstice (December 21), the shortest daylight hour day of > the year, the sun rises here at 7:17 AM EDT and sets at 4:32 PM EDT, a > period of 9 hours and 15 minutes of actual sun -- without the pre-dawn > and the dusk light. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > The seller said Prince was acting just like normal, so he shipped them > > all out today. > > I'm a tad worried that they'll get too warm, he put 6 heat packs in the > > box, LOL. I'm going to open it up as soon as I get it tomorrow and > check > > the temps and if I don't have too much work tomorrow I can take a > longer > > lunch to acclimate them, otherwise I'll have to leave them in their > bags > > until I get off of work around 4-5pm. But my house temps are 76-78 so > > they would be fine since they can breathe air. > > Should I leave the bags sealed or transfer them to large bowls until I > > get home? I'm not sure I can find lids for all the bowls and I would > > worry that the cats might jump onto a counter and play with the fish. > > I've never caught them on the counter but you never know what they're > > doing when you're not home! > > > > Amber > > > > On 11/2/2010 12:38 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > Oh, I hope Prince will be OK. Yes, they're gorgeous. Be sure to post > > > lots of pictures of them once they're home. :o) > > > > > > I keep promising myself that I'll get GOOD Bettas "next time." Maybe > > > next time I actually will. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks :) I love the name choices. Did you check out the pics of > > > them in the other betta thread? I posted links yesterday. > > > > The shipper is sending them out today, so I should get them > tomorrow > > > (weather permitting). The purple one pulled a suicide attempt while > > > the shipper was trying to bag him yesterday, so we decided to wait a > > > day to see how he was doing from the jump onto the floor before > > > sending him out. Darn fish don't like to cooperate when you're trying > > > to move them out of their tank ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think you should name the purple one Prince (after the artist > > > formerly known as...) because one of his most famous outfits is > purple > > > with ruffles, much like your fish. And the other can be Elvis for his > > > blue suede shoes. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49452	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

And remember one thing________you don't have to shove rain!   Bill --- On Wed, 11/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Our Growing Betta Families To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 10:43 AM Thanks Ray, I will check the bags for cloudiness as well as the temps. I'm sure I can find a few bowls to transfer them to if need be. I had thought about getting discus a year or so ago, but they're so expensive at my LFS when they get them in. I didn't want to spend so much on a fish that I may or may not kill (I was still learning the ropes a year or so ago). Our temps have been in the upper 40's this week, last week it dropped down a bit and we had black ice and cars in the ditches. I'm hoping we get rain for awhile longer (I'll take rain instead of ice any day). I can't remember exactly how short our shortest day of the year is... but I think we get around 6-7 hours of light that day (at least, maybe more). Our problem is that it's so overcast from all of the rain that you can't really see the sun even when it's shining ;) Amber On 11/3/2010 4:01 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > Amber, With cats around, and with your not being there, anything can > happen. As long as the bag water looks fairly clear, the fish should > be alright until you get off from work later today -- especially if > the bags haven't collapsed to the point of having little air. If you > have the time to open the bags, but no time to acclimate them, do so > and give them a fresh supply of air then tie up the bags again until > you get home from work. For any bags in which the water appears even > the slightest cloudy, I'd attend to it ASAP, putting the fish in a > bowl if you can find a lid, and giving them at least a PWC until you > have more time later to attend to them. > > Wow, with your house temp where it is, you could almost breed Discus > -- without even needing a heater < g >. Yes, I'd say that 6 heat packs > is overkill to say the least. The shipper must think you're up at > Barrow or Prudhoe Bay. I seem to remember your saying you lived in > Ketchican. If so, your weather lately is better than what I've been > having down here near New York City (but in NJ), where I had 29 o last > night (28 o the night before) and expect only 46 o today (48 o > yesterday) with full sun. I notice you had 46 o last night and it will > be 51 o today, but with rain; that's not too bad -- and certainly > doesn't require 6 heat packs. Yes, check those fish as soon as they > come in, for their temperature. > > BTW, your daylight hours in the winter aren't very much shorter than > what I get around here, if what you're saying is fairly accurate. At > the Winter Solstice (December 21), the shortest daylight hour day of > the year, the sun rises here at 7:17 AM EDT and sets at 4:32 PM EDT, a > period of 9 hours and 15 minutes of actual sun -- without the pre-dawn > and the dusk light. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > The seller said Prince was acting just like normal, so he shipped them > > all out today. > > I'm a tad worried that they'll get too warm, he put 6 heat packs in the > > box, LOL. I'm going to open it up as soon as I get it tomorrow and > check > > the temps and if I don't have too much work tomorrow I can take a > longer > > lunch to acclimate them, otherwise I'll have to leave them in their > bags > > until I get off of work around 4-5pm. But my house temps are 76-78 so > > they would be fine since they can breathe air. > > Should I leave the bags sealed or transfer them to large bowls until I > > get home? I'm not sure I can find lids for all the bowls and I would > > worry that the cats might jump onto a counter and play with the fish. > > I've never caught them on the counter but you never know what they're > > doing when you're not home! > > > > Amber > > > > On 11/2/2010 12:38 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > Oh, I hope Prince will be OK. Yes, they're gorgeous. Be sure to post > > > lots of pictures of them once they're home. :o) > > > > > > I keep promising myself that I'll get GOOD Bettas "next time." Maybe > > > next time I actually will. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks :) I love the name choices. Did you check out the pics of > > > them in the other betta thread? I posted links yesterday. > > > > The shipper is sending them out today, so I should get them > tomorrow > > > (weather permitting). The purple one pulled a suicide attempt while > > > the shipper was trying to bag him yesterday, so we decided to wait a > > > day to see how he was doing from the jump onto the floor before > > > sending him out. Darn fish don't like to cooperate when you're trying > > > to move them out of their tank ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think you should name the purple one Prince (after the artist > > > formerly known as...) because one of his most famous outfits is > purple > > > with ruffles, much like your fish. And the other can be Elvis for his > > > blue suede shoes. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49453	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

We're expecting flurries this weekend. Might whiten the ground. Winters are long and dreary here. As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if you have rambunctious kids, their running around could stress the fish to death. I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a regular basis but I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them successfully. My two favorites are the Fire Dragons (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > And remember one thing________you don't have to shove rain! >   > Bill > > --- On Wed, 11/3/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Our Growing Betta Families > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > Thanks Ray, I will check the bags for cloudiness as well as the temps. > I'm sure I can find a few bowls to transfer them to if need be. > > I had thought about getting discus a year or so ago, but they're so > expensive at my LFS when they get them in. I didn't want to spend so > much on a fish that I may or may not kill (I was still learning the > ropes a year or so ago). > > Our temps have been in the upper 40's this week, last week it dropped > down a bit and we had black ice and cars in the ditches. I'm hoping we > get rain for awhile longer (I'll take rain instead of ice any day). I > can't remember exactly how short our shortest day of the year is... but > I think we get around 6-7 hours of light that day (at least, maybe > more). Our problem is that it's so overcast from all of the rain that > you can't really see the sun even when it's shining ;) > > Amber > > On 11/3/2010 4:01 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, With cats around, and with your not being there, anything can > > happen. As long as the bag water looks fairly clear, the fish should > > be alright until you get off from work later today -- especially if > > the bags haven't collapsed to the point of having little air. If you > > have the time to open the bags, but no time to acclimate them, do so > > and give them a fresh supply of air then tie up the bags again until > > you get home from work. For any bags in which the water appears even > > the slightest cloudy, I'd attend to it ASAP, putting the fish in a > > bowl if you can find a lid, and giving them at least a PWC until you > > have more time later to attend to them. > > > > Wow, with your house temp where it is, you could almost breed Discus > > -- without even needing a heater < g >. Yes, I'd say that 6 heat packs > > is overkill to say the least. The shipper must think you're up at > > Barrow or Prudhoe Bay. I seem to remember your saying you lived in > > Ketchican. If so, your weather lately is better than what I've been > > having down here near New York City (but in NJ), where I had 29 o last > > night (28 o the night before) and expect only 46 o today (48 o > > yesterday) with full sun. I notice you had 46 o last night and it will > > be 51 o today, but with rain; that's not too bad -- and certainly > > doesn't require 6 heat packs. Yes, check those fish as soon as they > > come in, for their temperature. > > > > BTW, your daylight hours in the winter aren't very much shorter than > > what I get around here, if what you're saying is fairly accurate. At > > the Winter Solstice (December 21), the shortest daylight hour day of > > the year, the sun rises here at 7:17 AM EDT and sets at 4:32 PM EDT, a > > period of 9 hours and 15 minutes of actual sun -- without the pre-dawn > > and the dusk light. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > The seller said Prince was acting just like normal, so he shipped them > > > all out today. > > > I'm a tad worried that they'll get too warm, he put 6 heat packs in the > > > box, LOL. I'm going to open it up as soon as I get it tomorrow and > > check > > > the temps and if I don't have too much work tomorrow I can take a > > longer > > > lunch to acclimate them, otherwise I'll have to leave them in their > > bags > > > until I get off of work around 4-5pm. But my house temps are 76-78 so > > > they would be fine since they can breathe air. > > > Should I leave the bags sealed or transfer them to large bowls until I > > > get home? I'm not sure I can find lids for all the bowls and I would > > > worry that the cats might jump onto a counter and play with the fish. > > > I've never caught them on the counter but you never know what they're > > > doing when you're not home! > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 11/2/2010 12:38 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > > > Oh, I hope Prince will be OK. Yes, they're gorgeous. Be sure to post > > > > lots of pictures of them once they're home. :o) > > > > > > > > I keep promising myself that I'll get GOOD Bettas "next time." Maybe > > > > next time I actually will. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks :) I love the name choices. Did you check out the pics of > > > > them in the other betta thread? I posted links yesterday. > > > > > The shipper is sending them out today, so I should get them > > tomorrow > > > > (weather permitting). The purple one pulled a suicide attempt while > > > > the shipper was trying to bag him yesterday, so we decided to wait a > > > > day to see how he was doing from the jump onto the floor before > > > > sending him out. Darn fish don't like to cooperate when you're trying > > > > to move them out of their tank ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should name the purple one Prince (after the artist > > > > formerly known as...) because one of his most famous outfits is > > purple > > > > with ruffles, much like your fish. And the other can be Elvis for his > > > > blue suede shoes. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > Now I gotta come up with some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49454	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Kai, Kai, Kai! I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them successfully”. REALLY! Now who IS a good enough keeper? You only need 4 things, and in this order. A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus likes heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last and the very most important thing, the desire to keep them! That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. Buy 3 or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed them well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, the Discus does not like a dirty house. Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you do have to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so far. Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop ill’s and infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as after they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson or better advice than any of us can ever give you. Bill --- On Wed, 11/3/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Our Growing Betta Families > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 11:36 AM > We're expecting flurries this > weekend.  Might whiten the ground.  Winters are > long and dreary here. > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > stress the fish to death. > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a regular basis but > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > successfully.  My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > And remember one thing________you don't have to shove > rain! > >   > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 11/3/10, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Our Growing Betta > Families > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2010, 10:43 AM > > > > > > Thanks Ray, I will check the bags for cloudiness as > well as the temps. > > I'm sure I can find a few bowls to transfer them to if > need be. > > > > I had thought about getting discus a year or so ago, > but they're so > > expensive at my LFS when they get them in. I didn't > want to spend so > > much on a fish that I may or may not kill (I was still > learning the > > ropes a year or so ago). > > > > Our temps have been in the upper 40's this week, last > week it dropped > > down a bit and we had black ice and cars in the > ditches. I'm hoping we > > get rain for awhile longer (I'll take rain instead of > ice any day). I > > can't remember exactly how short our shortest day of > the year is... but > > I think we get around 6-7 hours of light that day (at > least, maybe > > more). Our problem is that it's so overcast from all > of the rain that > > you can't really see the sun even when it's shining > ;) > > > > Amber > > > > On 11/3/2010 4:01 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, With cats around, and with your not being > there, anything can > > > happen. As long as the bag water looks fairly > clear, the fish should > > > be alright until you get off from work later > today -- especially if > > > the bags haven't collapsed to the point of having > little air. If you > > > have the time to open the bags, but no time to > acclimate them, do so > > > and give them a fresh supply of air then tie up > the bags again until > > > you get home from work. For any bags in which the > water appears even > > > the slightest cloudy, I'd attend to it ASAP, > putting the fish in a > > > bowl if you can find a lid, and giving them at > least a PWC until you > > > have more time later to attend to them. > > > > > > Wow, with your house temp where it is, you could > almost breed Discus > > > -- without even needing a heater < g >. > Yes, I'd say that 6 heat packs > > > is overkill to say the least. The shipper must > think you're up at > > > Barrow or Prudhoe Bay. I seem to remember your > saying you lived in > > > Ketchican. If so, your weather lately is better > than what I've been > > > having down here near New York City (but in NJ), > where I had 29 o last > > > night (28 o the night before) and expect only 46 > o today (48 o > > > yesterday) with full sun. I notice you had 46 o > last night and it will > > > be 51 o today, but with rain; that's not too bad > -- and certainly > > > doesn't require 6 heat packs. Yes, check those > fish as soon as they > > > come in, for their temperature. > > > > > > BTW, your daylight hours in the winter aren't > very much shorter than > > > what I get around here, if what you're saying is > fairly accurate. At > > > the Winter Solstice (December 21), the shortest > daylight hour day of > > > the year, the sun rises here at 7:17 AM EDT and > sets at 4:32 PM EDT, a > > > period of 9 hours and 15 minutes of actual sun -- > without the pre-dawn > > > and the dusk light. Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The seller said Prince was acting just like > normal, so he shipped them > > > > all out today. > > > > I'm a tad worried that they'll get too warm, > he put 6 heat packs in the > > > > box, LOL. I'm going to open it up as soon as > I get it tomorrow and > > > check > > > > the temps and if I don't have too much work > tomorrow I can take a > > > longer > > > > lunch to acclimate them, otherwise I'll have > to leave them in their > > > bags > > > > until I get off of work around 4-5pm. But my > house temps are 76-78 so > > > > they would be fine since they can breathe > air. > > > > Should I leave the bags sealed or transfer > them to large bowls until I > > > > get home? I'm not sure I can find lids for > all the bowls and I would > > > > worry that the cats might jump onto a > counter and play with the fish. > > > > I've never caught them on the counter but > you never know what they're > > > > doing when you're not home! > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 11/2/2010 12:38 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Oh, I hope Prince will be OK. Yes, > they're gorgeous. Be sure to post > > > > > lots of pictures of them once they're > home. :o) > > > > > > > > > > I keep promising myself that I'll get > GOOD Bettas "next time." Maybe > > > > > next time I actually will. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks :) I love the name choices. > Did you check out the pics of > > > > > them in the other betta thread? I > posted links yesterday. > > > > > > The shipper is sending them out > today, so I should get them > > > tomorrow > > > > > (weather permitting). The purple one > pulled a suicide attempt while > > > > > the shipper was trying to bag him > yesterday, so we decided to wait a > > > > > day to see how he was doing from the > jump onto the floor before > > > > > sending him out. Darn fish don't like > to cooperate when you're trying > > > > > to move them out of their tank ;) LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should name the > purple one Prince (after the artist > > > > > formerly known as...) because one of > his most famous outfits is > > > purple > > > > > with ruffles, much like your fish. And > the other can be Elvis for his > > > > > blue suede shoes. > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber wrote: > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > Now I gotta come up with > some names, LOL. I suck at naming pets. > > > > > > > > SNIPPED > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & > ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49455	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Fortunately, I have very HARDY fish in my 55g that survive my frequent neglect and occasional mis-steps in their care. Considering their life spans, it'll be 5-10 years before my fishie friends find their way to fishie heaven. I don't think I'll replace as I go along. Once this batch is gone, then I'll try "other" fish. Discus are definitely on the list -- though I think they'd be too persnickety for me to keep successfully. African cichlids are also on my list. I love bright Yellow Labs. I think they're so cheerful. And I'm also drawn to Black Moors. Yeah, goldfish. I don't know which of them I'll choose. Obviously, I can't mix and match. :oP ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Kai, Kai, Kai! > > I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them successfully”. REALLY! > > Now who IS a good enough keeper? > > You only need 4 things, and in this order. > > A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus likes > heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last and the > very most important thing, the desire to keep them! > > That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. Buy 3 or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed them well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, the Discus does not like a dirty house. > > Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you do have > to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so far. Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop ill’s and infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as after they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. > > The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! > What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson > or better advice than any of us can ever give you. > > Bill > > > Kai wrote: > > > > We're expecting flurries this > > weekend.  Might whiten the ground.  Winters are > > long and dreary here. > > > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > > stress the fish to death. > > > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a regular basis but > > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > > successfully.  My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > > ~Kai > > > > SNIPPEROO!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49456	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Yeah I think I'd probably kill discus too, during the summer my water changes don't always happen once a week, sometimes they can go up to 2 weeks (I know it's bad, but after working 12 hours at FedEx I just don't want to do anything but eat and sleep). My betta's all arrived today, unfortunately Prince didn't live through the shipment. Elvis looks good though (which is good since he was $40 just for him, LOL). I'm sad that my favorite one didn't survive though. I don't know if it was the drop on the floor or the really warm box during shipment that did it. The heat packs weren't separated from the bags so some of the fish were probably roasting on their heat packs on the way here. When the box first arrived I removed 3 heatpacks because it was very warm inside the box. I wasn't able to examine all the fish but I noticed the females were alive at the time, Elvis looks like he's been dead for hours though, he's already starting to biodegrade in his bag of water, probably died yesterday or last night. Amber On 11/3/2010 9:59 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Fortunately, I have very HARDY fish in my 55g that survive my frequent > neglect and occasional mis-steps in their care. Considering their life > spans, it'll be 5-10 years before my fishie friends find their way to > fishie heaven. I don't think I'll replace as I go along. > > Once this batch is gone, then I'll try "other" fish. > > Discus are definitely on the list -- though I think they'd be too > persnickety for me to keep successfully. > > African cichlids are also on my list. I love bright Yellow Labs. I > think they're so cheerful. > > And I'm also drawn to Black Moors. Yeah, goldfish. > > I don't know which of them I'll choose. Obviously, I can't mix and > match. :oP > ~Kai > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Kai, Kai, Kai! > > > > I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to > keep them successfully�. REALLY! > > > > Now who IS a good enough keeper? > > > > You only need 4 things, and in this order. > > > > A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus likes > > heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last > and the > > very most important thing, the desire to keep them! > > > > That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. Buy 3 > or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed them > well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, the > Discus does not like a dirty house. > > > > Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you do have > > to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so far. > Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop ill’s and > infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as after > they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. > > > > The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! > > What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson > > or better advice than any of us can ever give you. > > > > Bill > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > We're expecting flurries this > > > weekend. Might whiten the ground. Winters are > > > long and dreary here. > > > > > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > > > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > > > stress the fish to death. > > > > > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a regular > basis but > > > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > > > successfully. My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > > > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > SNIPPEROO!!! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49457	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Oh, Amber! I'm so sorry that Prince didn't survive the trip. He was the reason you bought from that seller and your favorite right from the start. Considering that the seller admitted to dropping him, he really should have given you a similar freebie. I think Discus would survive a lot longer in your care than mine. :o) ~Kai > Amber Berglund wrote: > > Yeah I think I'd probably kill discus too, during the summer my water changes don't always happen once a week, sometimes they can go up to 2 weeks (I know it's bad, but after working 12 hours at FedEx I just don't want to do anything but eat and sleep). > My betta's all arrived today, unfortunately Prince didn't live through the shipment. Elvis looks good though (which is good since he was $40 just for him, LOL). I'm sad that my favorite one didn't survive though. > I don't know if it was the drop on the floor or the really warm box during shipment that did it. The heat packs weren't separated from the bags so some of the fish were probably roasting on their heat packs on the way here. > When the box first arrived I removed 3 heatpacks because it was very warm inside the box. I wasn't able to examine all the fish but I noticed the females were alive at the time, Elvis looks like he's been dead for hours though, he's already starting to biodegrade in his bag of water, probably died yesterday or last night. > > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Fortunately, I have very HARDY fish in my 55g that survive my frequent neglect and occasional mis-steps in their care. Considering their life spans, it'll be 5-10 years before my fishie friends find their way to fishie heaven. I don't think I'll replace as I go along. > > > > Once this batch is gone, then I'll try "other" fish. > > > > Discus are definitely on the list -- though I think they'd be too persnickety for me to keep successfully. > > > > African cichlids are also on my list. I love bright Yellow Labs. I think they're so cheerful. > > > > And I'm also drawn to Black Moors. Yeah, goldfish. > > > > I don't know which of them I'll choose. Obviously, I can't mix and match. :oP > > ~Kai > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Kai, Kai, Kai! > > > > > > I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to > > keep them successfully”. REALLY! > > > > > > Now who IS a good enough keeper? > > > > > > You only need 4 things, and in this order. > > > > > > A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus likes > > > heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last > > and the > > > very most important thing, the desire to keep them! > > > > > > That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. Buy 3 > > or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed them > > well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, the > > Discus does not like a dirty house. > > > > > > Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you do have > > > to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so far. > > Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop ill’s and > > infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as after > > they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. > > > > > > The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! > > > What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson > > > or better advice than any of us can ever give you. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > We're expecting flurries this > > > > weekend. Might whiten the ground. Winters are > > > > long and dreary here. > > > > > > > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > > > > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > > > > stress the fish to death. > > > > > > > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a regular > > basis but > > > > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > > > > successfully. My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > > > > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPEROO!!! > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49458	From: haecklers	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

OOH! Mind if I jump in? I've been drooling over daffodil brichardi, and would also like to have a tank of bolivian rams. Amber, I'm really sorry about Prince! :( It's worse when they have a name, isn't it? When our much-anticipated baby angelfish arrived, I told my daughter to open the bags and let them out (after floating them) - I was in the hospital with dh. When I got home I counted them and realized there was one missing - it was still in the bag, and dead by then. So much worse-feeling when it seems avoidable! She's only 10, but I guess it was a mistake anyone could have made, she was probably distracted by her dad going to the ER that morning, like I was. We released our egg-filled betta female with the male today. They don't seem to know what to do. So many times they get close - she went under the nest in submissive pose several times, but he seemed flustered, then bit her instead of wrapping her. One time he embraced the heater instead of her - LOL! He's not really chasing her and there are a lot of hiding places, so we're going to let them go until morning, since a lot of fish like to spawn at dawn's first light. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Fortunately, I have very HARDY fish in my 55g that survive my frequent neglect and occasional mis-steps in their care. Considering their life spans, it'll be 5-10 years before my fishie friends find their way to fishie heaven. I don't think I'll replace as I go along. > > Once this batch is gone, then I'll try "other" fish. > > Discus are definitely on the list -- though I think they'd be too persnickety for me to keep successfully. > > African cichlids are also on my list. I love bright Yellow Labs. I think they're so cheerful. > > And I'm also drawn to Black Moors. Yeah, goldfish. > > I don't know which of them I'll choose. Obviously, I can't mix and match. :oP > ~Kai > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Kai, Kai, Kai! > > > > I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them successfully”. REALLY! > > > > Now who IS a good enough keeper? > > > > You only need 4 things, and in this order. > > > > A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus likes > > heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last and the > > very most important thing, the desire to keep them! > > > > That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. Buy 3 or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed them well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, the Discus does not like a dirty house. > > > > Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you do have > > to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so far. Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop ill’s and infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as after they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. > > > > The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! > > What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson > > or better advice than any of us can ever give you. > > > > Bill > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > We're expecting flurries this > > > weekend.  Might whiten the ground.  Winters are > > > long and dreary here. > > > > > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > > > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > > > stress the fish to death. > > > > > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a regular basis but > > > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > > > successfully.  My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > > > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > SNIPPEROO!!! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49459	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Yeah I was a little sad that he didn't make it. The seller unfortunately didn't have any others available to replace him with (at least not a purple one). He was very quick to give me a refund for the betta that didn't survive though. Elvis is doing great though, searching his tank for hidden enemies ;) LOL. He's definitely a big guy compared to my last male betta (a crown tail), he seems to be enjoying his 10 gallon tank. The 4 girls were previously together in a 225 gallon tank (at the seller's), so they're still all together in my 125 gallon tank. The first thing they starting doing was chasing all the guppy/platty fry, so that should keep them busy. The females have pale pink/whittish bodies with dark red fins, very pretty. I will try to get photos when everyone settles down a bit. Amber On 11/3/2010 3:37 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Oh, Amber! I'm so sorry that Prince didn't survive the trip. He was > the reason you bought from that seller and your favorite right from > the start. > > Considering that the seller admitted to dropping him, he really should > have given you a similar freebie. > > I think Discus would survive a lot longer in your care than mine. :o) > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > Yeah I think I'd probably kill discus too, during the summer my > water changes don't always happen once a week, sometimes they can go > up to 2 weeks (I know it's bad, but after working 12 hours at FedEx I > just don't want to do anything but eat and sleep). > > My betta's all arrived today, unfortunately Prince didn't live > through the shipment. Elvis looks good though (which is good since he > was $40 just for him, LOL). I'm sad that my favorite one didn't > survive though. > > I don't know if it was the drop on the floor or the really warm box > during shipment that did it. The heat packs weren't separated from the > bags so some of the fish were probably roasting on their heat packs on > the way here. > > When the box first arrived I removed 3 heatpacks because it was very > warm inside the box. I wasn't able to examine all the fish but I > noticed the females were alive at the time, Elvis looks like he's been > dead for hours though, he's already starting to biodegrade in his bag > of water, probably died yesterday or last night. > > > > Amber > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Fortunately, I have very HARDY fish in my 55g that survive my > frequent neglect and occasional mis-steps in their care. Considering > their life spans, it'll be 5-10 years before my fishie friends find > their way to fishie heaven. I don't think I'll replace as I go along. > > > > > > Once this batch is gone, then I'll try "other" fish. > > > > > > Discus are definitely on the list -- though I think they'd be too > persnickety for me to keep successfully. > > > > > > African cichlids are also on my list. I love bright Yellow Labs. I > think they're so cheerful. > > > > > > And I'm also drawn to Black Moors. Yeah, goldfish. > > > > > > I don't know which of them I'll choose. Obviously, I can't mix and > match. :oP > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai, Kai, Kai! > > > > > > > > I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to > > > keep them successfully�. REALLY! > > > > > > > > Now who IS a good enough keeper? > > > > > > > > You only need 4 things, and in this order. > > > > > > > > A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus likes > > > > heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last > > > and the > > > > very most important thing, the desire to keep them! > > > > > > > > That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. > Buy 3 > > > or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed > them > > > well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, the > > > Discus does not like a dirty house. > > > > > > > > Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you > do have > > > > to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so far. > > > Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop ill’s and > > > infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as after > > > they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. > > > > > > > > The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! > > > > What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson > > > > or better advice than any of us can ever give you. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We're expecting flurries this > > > > > weekend. Might whiten the ground. Winters are > > > > > long and dreary here. > > > > > > > > > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > > > > > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > > > > > stress the fish to death. > > > > > > > > > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a > regular > > > basis but > > > > > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > > > > > successfully. My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > > > > > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPEROO!!! > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49460	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Let me know how it goes with your male/female betta breeding, I'm curious about it :) I would like to breed the male I got later (Elvis), but not sure if the females (regular sized) will be big enough to breed with him. I may have to get a giant sized female sometime later. The seller that I got these from has fry growing up, he is going to let me know when they are big enough to ship, perhaps he might have a purple male since the purple one I was getting is the father of all these fry *crosses fingers* Amber On 11/3/2010 4:21 PM, haecklers wrote: > > OOH! Mind if I jump in? I've been drooling over daffodil brichardi, > and would also like to have a tank of bolivian rams. > > Amber, I'm really sorry about Prince! :( It's worse when they have a > name, isn't it? > > When our much-anticipated baby angelfish arrived, I told my daughter > to open the bags and let them out (after floating them) - I was in the > hospital with dh. When I got home I counted them and realized there > was one missing - it was still in the bag, and dead by then. So much > worse-feeling when it seems avoidable! She's only 10, but I guess it > was a mistake anyone could have made, she was probably distracted by > her dad going to the ER that morning, like I was. > > We released our egg-filled betta female with the male today. They > don't seem to know what to do. So many times they get close - she went > under the nest in submissive pose several times, but he seemed > flustered, then bit her instead of wrapping her. One time he embraced > the heater instead of her - LOL! He's not really chasing her and there > are a lot of hiding places, so we're going to let them go until > morning, since a lot of fish like to spawn at dawn's first light. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > > Fortunately, I have very HARDY fish in my 55g that survive my > frequent neglect and occasional mis-steps in their care. Considering > their life spans, it'll be 5-10 years before my fishie friends find > their way to fishie heaven. I don't think I'll replace as I go along. > > > > Once this batch is gone, then I'll try "other" fish. > > > > Discus are definitely on the list -- though I think they'd be too > persnickety for me to keep successfully. > > > > African cichlids are also on my list. I love bright Yellow Labs. I > think they're so cheerful. > > > > And I'm also drawn to Black Moors. Yeah, goldfish. > > > > I don't know which of them I'll choose. Obviously, I can't mix and > match. :oP > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Kai, Kai, Kai! > > > > > > I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to > keep them successfully�. REALLY! > > > > > > Now who IS a good enough keeper? > > > > > > You only need 4 things, and in this order. > > > > > > A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus likes > > > heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last > and the > > > very most important thing, the desire to keep them! > > > > > > That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. Buy > 3 or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed > them well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, > the Discus does not like a dirty house. > > > > > > Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you do have > > > to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so > far. Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop ill’s > and infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as > after they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. > > > > > > The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! > > > What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson > > > or better advice than any of us can ever give you. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > We're expecting flurries this > > > > weekend. Might whiten the ground. Winters are > > > > long and dreary here. > > > > > > > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > > > > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > > > > stress the fish to death. > > > > > > > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a > regular basis but > > > > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > > > > successfully. My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > > > > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPEROO!!! > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49461	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be more in there somewhere. I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have more babies that survive the next time around. I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of one of the babies. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49462	From: pam andress	Date: 11/3/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Congratulations! Now get him a cone! :) Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 18:00:57 -0800 Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be more in there somewhere. I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have more babies that survive the next time around. I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of one of the babies. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49463	From: Bren Linny	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

congrats on the finbabies Amber. I am always excited about new life in my tanks or ponds, even baby snails. Have fun watching them grow. Do they require any special food when they are babies? Are they in danger of being eaten? bren On Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 10:00 PM EDT Amber Berglund wrote: >So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after >feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger >than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW >bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any >others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be >more in there somewhere. >I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and >a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his >nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone >in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have >more babies that survive the next time around. >I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of >one of the babies. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > >Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49464	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

They are bigger than the rest of my guppy/platty fry in the tank, so I think they'll be safe from being eaten. I'm not sure if they require any special foods. I've been feeding the tank a few times a day just to make sure they find food if they need it. I don't have any large fish in the tank anymore, so there's nothing in there that should try to eat it. Amber On 11/4/2010 2:34 AM, Bren Linny wrote: > > congrats on the finbabies Amber. I am always excited about new life in > my tanks or ponds, even baby snails. Have fun watching them grow. Do > they require any special food when they are babies? Are they in danger > of being eaten? > bren > > On Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 10:00 PM EDT Amber Berglund wrote: > > >So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after > >feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger > >than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW > >bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any > >others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be > >more in there somewhere. > >I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and > >a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his > >nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone > >in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have > >more babies that survive the next time around. > >I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of > >one of the babies. > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> > > > >Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49465	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: Big bump on the side of my Albino catfish.

What ever happen to the bump? the fish? Charles H -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49466	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms

>Thanks for all the comments. Looks like I need >to do PWC and more thoroughly. The worms are >harmless :). So far they have not caused any >problems. > >Scott The worms are harmless and food for the fishes BUT they are a sign of a much greater problem, pollution. There is excess food, fish waste and plant waste present in the tank with a hardy population of these free living worms. The septic tank your fish are living in needs to be flushed a lot more often. Gravel vacuums are great and do a lot of good but just changing a major amount of water once a week to 10 days is even better. The worms come to the surface because you change their living conditions with the water changes, they want to get away from the fresh water. Planaria are 1/2 to 3/4 inch long brown to red Flat worms. They glide on a skin covered with velvety hairs which are constantly moving causing a turbulent water flow beneath them. They belong to a class of animals called Turbulent-arians or more correctly Turbellarias. They don't squirm or swim in that sense and they are not white. Take away from this, you need to work your way up to at least 50% water change once a week. Flush the toilet more often. It will keep the chemistry more stable and make everything more healthy. If you fertilize the plants by additions to the water column, you need to do a much greater change to return the chemistry back to the starting point Nature doesn't scrub the rocks, she just changes the water over and over and over . . . }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: >> >> If you don't do really good gravel cleanings (especially if it's a >> planted tank) you will often get planaria (they are flat like worms, and >> tend to move around like inch worms do, I have never seen mine swimming, >> but that doesn't mean that they don't do it while I"m not looking, LOL). >> How often do you gravel clean your tanks and how well do you do it? I >> have them in my mystery snail breeding tank because the tank is so >> heavily planted and it's hard to clean the gravel really well with >> plants growing in it. >> >> Amber >> >> On 11/1/2010 10:39 AM, ScottW wrote: >> > >> > I don't know where these things are coming from but I particularly >> > notice them after water changes. They swim near the top and sort of >> > swim vertically. My fish just seem to eat them, especially the angels. >> > I have noticed them in all my tanks though. I have seen them in all my >> > tanks but now I just see them in one of my peacock cichlid tanks. Let >> > me tell you about my tanks: >> > > > 55g -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49467	From: haecklers	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

They're breeding now. She didn't seem very afraid of him, but was staying out of his way. We decided to leave them together overnight and see what happened in the morning - I read a lot of fish like to spawn at first light. They did start spawning, or trying to. It's taken them all day to figure it out. Now it's 1:00 pm and they've got the hang of it. We were afraid she was eating the eggs, but I think she's been helping him pick them up and put them in the nest. My biggest worry now is the catalpa leaf that he built his nest under - the ones I put in the other tanks on the same day are all sinking! I'm afraid it's his bubbles keeping the leaf afloat, and I worry the leaf will get heavier and crush the bubble nest. I'm thinking of trying to wedge a piece of styrofoam under it to help keep it up. I ran out last night and got two more fish tanks from Craigslist for raising up the fry in. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Let me know how it goes with your male/female betta breeding, I'm > curious about it :) > I would like to breed the male I got later (Elvis), but not sure if the > females (regular sized) will be big enough to breed with him. I may have > to get a giant sized female sometime later. > The seller that I got these from has fry growing up, he is going to let > me know when they are big enough to ship, perhaps he might have a purple > male since the purple one I was getting is the father of all these fry > *crosses fingers* > > Amber > > On 11/3/2010 4:21 PM, haecklers wrote: > > > > OOH! Mind if I jump in? I've been drooling over daffodil brichardi, > > and would also like to have a tank of bolivian rams. > > > > Amber, I'm really sorry about Prince! :( It's worse when they have a > > name, isn't it? > > > > When our much-anticipated baby angelfish arrived, I told my daughter > > to open the bags and let them out (after floating them) - I was in the > > hospital with dh. When I got home I counted them and realized there > > was one missing - it was still in the bag, and dead by then. So much > > worse-feeling when it seems avoidable! She's only 10, but I guess it > > was a mistake anyone could have made, she was probably distracted by > > her dad going to the ER that morning, like I was. > > > > We released our egg-filled betta female with the male today. They > > don't seem to know what to do. So many times they get close - she went > > under the nest in submissive pose several times, but he seemed > > flustered, then bit her instead of wrapping her. One time he embraced > > the heater instead of her - LOL! He's not really chasing her and there > > are a lot of hiding places, so we're going to let them go until > > morning, since a lot of fish like to spawn at dawn's first light. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > Fortunately, I have very HARDY fish in my 55g that survive my > > frequent neglect and occasional mis-steps in their care. Considering > > their life spans, it'll be 5-10 years before my fishie friends find > > their way to fishie heaven. I don't think I'll replace as I go along. > > > > > > Once this batch is gone, then I'll try "other" fish. > > > > > > Discus are definitely on the list -- though I think they'd be too > > persnickety for me to keep successfully. > > > > > > African cichlids are also on my list. I love bright Yellow Labs. I > > think they're so cheerful. > > > > > > And I'm also drawn to Black Moors. Yeah, goldfish. > > > > > > I don't know which of them I'll choose. Obviously, I can't mix and > > match. :oP > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai, Kai, Kai! > > > > > > > > I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to > > keep them successfully”. REALLY! > > > > > > > > Now who IS a good enough keeper? > > > > > > > > You only need 4 things, and in this order. > > > > > > > > A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus likes > > > > heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last > > and the > > > > very most important thing, the desire to keep them! > > > > > > > > That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. Buy > > 3 or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed > > them well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, > > the Discus does not like a dirty house. > > > > > > > > Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you do have > > > > to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so > > far. Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop ill’s > > and infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as > > after they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. > > > > > > > > The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! > > > > What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson > > > > or better advice than any of us can ever give you. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We're expecting flurries this > > > > > weekend. Might whiten the ground. Winters are > > > > > long and dreary here. > > > > > > > > > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > > > > > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > > > > > stress the fish to death. > > > > > > > > > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a > > regular basis but > > > > > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > > > > > successfully. My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > > > > > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPEROO!!! > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49468	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Gourami spawning advice??

I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too soon? Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of snails. Are they all ok to stay? Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when spawning.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49469	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/4/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

I have 4 females together in my 125 gallon tank, and my giant sized male by himself in a 10 gallon tank. I may or may not try to breed one of the females to him later next year. Right now they're still fairly small (not full grown yet), so that option is out, considering he's 3 times bigger than they are, LOL. But giant sized bettas can grow up to 6 inches (from what I've read on them), so he's going to keep growing too, and he's only halfway there. Amber On 11/4/2010 9:14 AM, haecklers wrote: > > They're breeding now. She didn't seem very afraid of him, but was > staying out of his way. We decided to leave them together overnight > and see what happened in the morning - I read a lot of fish like to > spawn at first light. They did start spawning, or trying to. It's > taken them all day to figure it out. Now it's 1:00 pm and they've got > the hang of it. We were afraid she was eating the eggs, but I think > she's been helping him pick them up and put them in the nest. > > My biggest worry now is the catalpa leaf that he built his nest under > - the ones I put in the other tanks on the same day are all sinking! > I'm afraid it's his bubbles keeping the leaf afloat, and I worry the > leaf will get heavier and crush the bubble nest. I'm thinking of > trying to wedge a piece of styrofoam under it to help keep it up. > > I ran out last night and got two more fish tanks from Craigslist for > raising up the fry in. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Let me know how it goes with your male/female betta breeding, I'm > > curious about it :) > > I would like to breed the male I got later (Elvis), but not sure if the > > females (regular sized) will be big enough to breed with him. I may > have > > to get a giant sized female sometime later. > > The seller that I got these from has fry growing up, he is going to let > > me know when they are big enough to ship, perhaps he might have a > purple > > male since the purple one I was getting is the father of all these fry > > *crosses fingers* > > > > Amber > > > > On 11/3/2010 4:21 PM, haecklers wrote: > > > > > > OOH! Mind if I jump in? I've been drooling over daffodil brichardi, > > > and would also like to have a tank of bolivian rams. > > > > > > Amber, I'm really sorry about Prince! :( It's worse when they have a > > > name, isn't it? > > > > > > When our much-anticipated baby angelfish arrived, I told my daughter > > > to open the bags and let them out (after floating them) - I was in > the > > > hospital with dh. When I got home I counted them and realized there > > > was one missing - it was still in the bag, and dead by then. So much > > > worse-feeling when it seems avoidable! She's only 10, but I guess it > > > was a mistake anyone could have made, she was probably distracted by > > > her dad going to the ER that morning, like I was. > > > > > > We released our egg-filled betta female with the male today. They > > > don't seem to know what to do. So many times they get close - she > went > > > under the nest in submissive pose several times, but he seemed > > > flustered, then bit her instead of wrapping her. One time he embraced > > > the heater instead of her - LOL! He's not really chasing her and > there > > > are a lot of hiding places, so we're going to let them go until > > > morning, since a lot of fish like to spawn at dawn's first light. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Fortunately, I have very HARDY fish in my 55g that survive my > > > frequent neglect and occasional mis-steps in their care. Considering > > > their life spans, it'll be 5-10 years before my fishie friends find > > > their way to fishie heaven. I don't think I'll replace as I go along. > > > > > > > > Once this batch is gone, then I'll try "other" fish. > > > > > > > > Discus are definitely on the list -- though I think they'd be too > > > persnickety for me to keep successfully. > > > > > > > > African cichlids are also on my list. I love bright Yellow Labs. I > > > think they're so cheerful. > > > > > > > > And I'm also drawn to Black Moors. Yeah, goldfish. > > > > > > > > I don't know which of them I'll choose. Obviously, I can't mix and > > > match. :oP > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Kai, Kai, Kai! > > > > > > > > > > I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to > > > keep them successfully�. REALLY! > > > > > > > > > > Now who IS a good enough keeper? > > > > > > > > > > You only need 4 things, and in this order. > > > > > > > > > > A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus > likes > > > > > heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last > > > and the > > > > > very most important thing, the desire to keep them! > > > > > > > > > > That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. > Buy > > > 3 or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed > > > them well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, > > > the Discus does not like a dirty house. > > > > > > > > > > Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you > do have > > > > > to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so > > > far. Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop > ill’s > > > and infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as > > > after they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. > > > > > > > > > > The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! > > > > > What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson > > > > > or better advice than any of us can ever give you. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > We're expecting flurries this > > > > > > weekend. Might whiten the ground. Winters are > > > > > > long and dreary here. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > > > > > > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > > > > > > stress the fish to death. > > > > > > > > > > > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a > > > regular basis but > > > > > > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > > > > > > successfully. My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > > > > > > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPEROO!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49470	From: Ray	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

Sometimes it will take a while before newly breeding Bettas get the hang of just how to go about spawning. Most often, the females will devour the eggs at any opprtunity, but occasionally they will help the male in retrieving and placing the eggs it the nest. One of the best items you can use to help support a male Betta's bubble nest is a styrofoam coffee cup cut in half from top to bottom and floated on the surface in a half-arc over his nest -- rather than just a (square?) piece of styrofoam -- if that's what you had it mind. Usually, even before a male starts building his nest, if a half-coffee cup is first introduced he will choose that as his site and build his nest under it as a preferred site. It helps prevent the nest from breaking down. To try to place anything between the nest and the leaf now may cause eggs to fall from the nest though. Yes, remove the female as soon as you can this morning, as spawning should have been completed yesterday and as she's of no further help at this time (but may possibly be seen by the male as a danger to the developing fry) the male may decide to chase and bite her to get her out of the area. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > They're breeding now. She didn't seem very afraid of him, but was staying out of his way. We decided to leave them together overnight and see what happened in the morning - I read a lot of fish like to spawn at first light. They did start spawning, or trying to. It's taken them all day to figure it out. Now it's 1:00 pm and they've got the hang of it. We were afraid she was eating the eggs, but I think she's been helping him pick them up and put them in the nest. > > My biggest worry now is the catalpa leaf that he built his nest under - the ones I put in the other tanks on the same day are all sinking! I'm afraid it's his bubbles keeping the leaf afloat, and I worry the leaf will get heavier and crush the bubble nest. I'm thinking of trying to wedge a piece of styrofoam under it to help keep it up. > > I ran out last night and got two more fish tanks from Craigslist for raising up the fry in. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > Let me know how it goes with your male/female betta breeding, I'm > > curious about it :) > > I would like to breed the male I got later (Elvis), but not sure if the > > females (regular sized) will be big enough to breed with him. I may have > > to get a giant sized female sometime later. > > The seller that I got these from has fry growing up, he is going to let > > me know when they are big enough to ship, perhaps he might have a purple > > male since the purple one I was getting is the father of all these fry > > *crosses fingers* > > > > Amber > > > > On 11/3/2010 4:21 PM, haecklers wrote: > > > > > > OOH! Mind if I jump in? I've been drooling over daffodil brichardi, > > > and would also like to have a tank of bolivian rams. > > > > > > Amber, I'm really sorry about Prince! :( It's worse when they have a > > > name, isn't it? > > > > > > When our much-anticipated baby angelfish arrived, I told my daughter > > > to open the bags and let them out (after floating them) - I was in the > > > hospital with dh. When I got home I counted them and realized there > > > was one missing - it was still in the bag, and dead by then. So much > > > worse-feeling when it seems avoidable! She's only 10, but I guess it > > > was a mistake anyone could have made, she was probably distracted by > > > her dad going to the ER that morning, like I was. > > > > > > We released our egg-filled betta female with the male today. They > > > don't seem to know what to do. So many times they get close - she went > > > under the nest in submissive pose several times, but he seemed > > > flustered, then bit her instead of wrapping her. One time he embraced > > > the heater instead of her - LOL! He's not really chasing her and there > > > are a lot of hiding places, so we're going to let them go until > > > morning, since a lot of fish like to spawn at dawn's first light. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Fortunately, I have very HARDY fish in my 55g that survive my > > > frequent neglect and occasional mis-steps in their care. Considering > > > their life spans, it'll be 5-10 years before my fishie friends find > > > their way to fishie heaven. I don't think I'll replace as I go along. > > > > > > > > Once this batch is gone, then I'll try "other" fish. > > > > > > > > Discus are definitely on the list -- though I think they'd be too > > > persnickety for me to keep successfully. > > > > > > > > African cichlids are also on my list. I love bright Yellow Labs. I > > > think they're so cheerful. > > > > > > > > And I'm also drawn to Black Moors. Yeah, goldfish. > > > > > > > > I don't know which of them I'll choose. Obviously, I can't mix and > > > match. :oP > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Kai, Kai, Kai! > > > > > > > > > > I’m surprised at you! “I am not a good enough fish keeper to > > > keep them successfully”. REALLY! > > > > > > > > > > Now who IS a good enough keeper? > > > > > > > > > > You only need 4 things, and in this order. > > > > > > > > > > A tank at least 55-gallon, next a very good heater (the Discus likes > > > > > heat, a lot of it,84 degrees), next the fish themselves, and last > > > and the > > > > > very most important thing, the desire to keep them! > > > > > > > > > > That’s it! All other things will fall into these categories. Buy > > > 3 or 4 and up to 6 if you can, no other tank-mates are needed. Feed > > > them well, no junky food, good stuff. Watch them and do your PWC’s, > > > the Discus does not like a dirty house. > > > > > > > > > > Believe it or not, the Discus is not that hard to keep but you do have > > > > > to apply all the basic aquarium rules that you have learned so > > > far. Clean tanks and clean water are a must. They will develop ill’s > > > and infections if you don’t. A sick Discus is cause for tears as > > > after they are weakened by something, they seldom return to top form. > > > > > > > > > > The very hardest part? Trying! My advice? Go for it! > > > > > What you will learn by caring for them is a greater lesson > > > > > or better advice than any of us can ever give you. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > We're expecting flurries this > > > > > > weekend. Might whiten the ground. Winters are > > > > > > long and dreary here. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for discus, they require METICULOUSLY CLEAN water and if > > > > > > you have rambunctious kids, their running around could > > > > > > stress the fish to death. > > > > > > > > > > > > I drool at discus at http://www.somethingsphishy.com/ on a > > > regular basis but > > > > > > I know that I am not a good enough fish keeper to keep them > > > > > > successfully. My two favorites are the Fire Dragons > > > > > > (on sale) and the Yellow Siams (not listed today.) > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SNIPPEROO!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49471	From: Ray	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

I'd like to give you some help here with some of your questions, but your narrative seems a bit confusing -- unless I missed something previously posted -- but your last post before your prior one dealing with breeding your Bettas only discussed how to tell the sexes of the Bettas and about your "long-fin" female Betta. I do notice you removed the spawning female to a tank of her own -- good move -- but where does Priya come in to this picture? What species and sex is Priya? I guess I'll intersperse some additional questions between yours, as not knowing exactly what you're referring to, I can't give you an answer unless I fully understand your statements. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ReBorn_Again" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? With your question of "how protective the parents are of their babies," what parents are you talking about? If you're talking about your male Pearl Gourami (?), they are like most other Anabantid male parent in that they are protective of their offspring only up to the point of their hatching. Beyond much further than that, they will soon loss their protective instinct and shortly after the fry's free-swimming stage the male may just as soon decide to eat any of them that he can. Whether to move Priya into his tank would depend on whether he is protecting a nest of eggs or fry at this time -- and/or, if Priya is large enough not to be eaten itself even if the male Pearl Gourami isn't even protecting a nest at this time. If he is protecting a nest, no other fish should be in with him. Is Priya a female Pearl Gourami, and a daughter of this male (you haven't explained that here, but your last sentence above seems to possibly indicate that). If so, then she's should be safe as long as she's not small enough to be eaten or harassed, and if he's not guarding a nest. > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too soon? This is where the question of adding Priya to the male Pearl Gourami's tank becomes quite "ify," if as you suggest, he and a female mate may have just spawned -- even though you're not really sure. If the female mate is no longer looking as though she's fat with eggs, the odds are they have spawned, especially since she is now being chased away from the spawning site and in a very rough manner. If he hasn't yet built a nest though -- as you seem to indicate, but leave questionable -- or if he was/is just starting to build the nest, they may well not have spawned yet if she still appears at least somewhat fat. A few questions here would be; how long has the male been in this tank? How long has he been building his nest? How long has the female been in this tank with him? How were they behaving during the time they've both been set up in this tank? Are you sure the female was ripe with eggs before you removed her? Since you're not sure of many things here, and since he's aggressive with his mate, this would not be a good time to add Priya. Observe what happens within the next two days and see if in fact any prospective fry hatch in his nest -- which will be seen as very tiny slivers of tails vibrating in the nest, and his retrieval of them as they drop out of the nest. If after several days you do not see any free-swimming fry, you'll know they have not spawned. Before adding the female (mate) back to his tank, condition her up well first, with the best foods you can offer her, before placing her back with the male. At this time his nest should be well formed. I don't know what size tank you're using, but I've always found the best approach was to use a clear divider, having her on one side and him on the other, since having her in view will keep his interest in nest building up -- and you'll see a change in her behavior of wanting to get to the male's side of the tank when she's ready to spawn. > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of snails. Are they all ok to stay? Who are "they"? Are you talking about the pair of Pearl Gourami's here? You're not very clear. If so, as I previously stated -- if you intend to breed and RAISE any Peaerl Gouramis, they should ideally have NO other tankmates, except for snails. All other fish, besides the female Pearl Gourami (if she's ready to spawn) will be in danger of attack, and/or, these other fish (except for the baby Bristlenose) including the female Betta and Endler's Livebearers will try to eat any eggs or fry that they can. The Kuh;i Loaches may be too busy burrowing in the gravel to even notice, but still, the fry could be in danger long-term as they're being raised. > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when spawning. Yes, Pearl Gourami's are about the least aggressive of any of them. You may want to get a good book on them if you're looking for more in-depth info on breeding them. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49472	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

Ray, Thanks for trying to help. Priya is an adult female betta fish. I got the gouramis to be part of an attractive planted community tank, having read that they are shy and gentle fish. The male is a bit pushy with the others but hasn't seemed to have harmed any of them, with the exception of the female pearl gourami who is now missing scales (two of them). She doesn't appear to be afraid of him, but is staying away from his nest, which I only noticed yesterday afternoon among the floating duckweed. It looks like random bubbles all over the place, with a small area that is more solid bubbles. I've only had the female gourami for about 2 weeks; I've had the male for only 3 weeks. I thought he was only a juvenile and thought it would be neat to breed them when they were bigger, which I thought would be months from now. From the beginning he has tried to dominate her, often escorting her to one corner where he seems to want her to stay. He colored up to very bright colors - deep orange on his belly and blue on his tail (I thought it was the good food! - LOL) The female never seemed that afraid of him and would come out of her corner whenever he wasn't looking and swim around. The day before this all happened with him building the nest I found, they were acting scared and every time I looked they were both hiding on the bottom. They didn't even come out to eat that day. I hadn't cleaned the tank or done anything unusual. The one female Endler's guppy in that tank is huge and gives birth to around 50+ fry at a time. I can't seem to catch her without risking destroying my tank but I want fish in there that will eat most of her fry since it's too many for me to raise, so that was the job of the gouramis and the betta. That's how the female betta (Kalpana) got accidentally conditioned so she was really full of eggs, so we bred her with one of our males (the one with the best fins, per the advice here). The gourami tank is a heavily planted 20-gallon tank. Are you saying that pearl gourami should only be kept separated males from females unless you want them to breed? A lot of sources say to keep them in groups of 5. If I do nothing, will the fry just get eaten, by the male gourami and the other fish? If/when I see tails, should I move the whole nest to a rearing tank? If I leave the male and female together will they continue to spawn frequently so that no other fish can live with them? The guppies are a strange case. I have 7 in with a pair of spawning convicts and tho the pair chases the remaining convict and forces him into hiding, they leave the guppies alone! I have guppies in with my Jack Dempsey fry, too; the JD's are 1 1/4 inches and they leave the guppies alone (once the JD's realized they aren't fast enough to eat them). None of my guppies eat their own babies, and I wonder (guess I'll find out!) if they'll eat the fry of other fish or not. The guppies have been selectively bred (by living with predators) to be almost impossible to catch, so I'm kind of stuck with them now, short of removing all my plants and emptying the tanks. The juveniles can be tricked with food to come out and be caught but the old females are very very smart to me and my tricks. You know, they store sperm for 6 months so you can't even stop them from having babies! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > I'd like to give you some help here with some of your questions, but your narrative seems a bit confusing -- unless I missed something previously posted -- but your last post before your prior one dealing with breeding your Bettas only discussed how to tell the sexes of the Bettas and about your "long-fin" female Betta. I do notice you removed the spawning female to a tank of her own -- good move -- but where does Priya come in to this picture? What species and sex is Priya? > > I guess I'll intersperse some additional questions between yours, as not knowing exactly what you're referring to, I can't give you an answer unless I fully understand your statements. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ReBorn_Again" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > With your question of "how protective the parents are of their babies," what parents are you talking about? If you're talking about your male Pearl Gourami (?), they are like most other Anabantid male parent in that they are protective of their offspring only up to the point of their hatching. Beyond much further than that, they will soon loss their protective instinct and shortly after the fry's free-swimming stage the male may just as soon decide to eat any of them that he can. Whether to move Priya into his tank would depend on whether he is protecting a nest of eggs or fry at this time -- and/or, if Priya is large enough not to be eaten itself even if the male Pearl Gourami isn't even protecting a nest at this time. If he is protecting a nest, no other fish should be in with him. Is Priya a female Pearl Gourami, and a daughter of this male (you haven't explained that here, but your last sentence above seems to possibly indicate that). If so, then she's should be safe as long as she's not small enough to be eaten or harassed, and if he's not guarding a nest. > > > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too soon? > > This is where the question of adding Priya to the male Pearl Gourami's tank becomes quite "ify," if as you suggest, he and a female mate may have just spawned -- even though you're not really sure. If the female mate is no longer looking as though she's fat with eggs, the odds are they have spawned, especially since she is now being chased away from the spawning site and in a very rough manner. If he hasn't yet built a nest though -- as you seem to indicate, but leave questionable -- or if he was/is just starting to build the nest, they may well not have spawned yet if she still appears at least somewhat fat. > > A few questions here would be; how long has the male been in this tank? How long has he been building his nest? How long has the female been in this tank with him? How were they behaving during the time they've both been set up in this tank? Are you sure the female was ripe with eggs before you removed her? Since you're not sure of many things here, and since he's aggressive with his mate, this would not be a good time to add Priya. > Observe what happens within the next two days and see if in fact any prospective fry hatch in his nest -- which will be seen as very tiny slivers of tails vibrating in the nest, and his retrieval of them as they drop out of the nest. If after several days you do not see any free-swimming fry, you'll know they have not spawned. > > Before adding the female (mate) back to his tank, condition her up well first, with the best foods you can offer her, before placing her back with the male. At this time his nest should be well formed. I don't know what size tank you're using, but I've always found the best approach was to use a clear divider, having her on one side and him on the other, since having her in view will keep his interest in nest building up -- and you'll see a change in her behavior of wanting to get to the male's side of the tank when she's ready to spawn. > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > Who are "they"? Are you talking about the pair of Pearl Gourami's here? You're not very clear. If so, as I previously stated -- if you intend to breed and RAISE any Peaerl Gouramis, they should ideally have NO other tankmates, except for snails. All other fish, besides the female Pearl Gourami (if she's ready to spawn) will be in danger of attack, and/or, these other fish (except for the baby Bristlenose) including the female Betta and Endler's Livebearers will try to eat any eggs or fry that they can. The Kuh;i Loaches may be too busy burrowing in the gravel to even notice, but still, the fry could be in danger long-term as they're being raised. > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when spawning. > > Yes, Pearl Gourami's are about the least aggressive of any of them. You may want to get a good book on them if you're looking for more in-depth info on breeding them. Ray > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49473	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

Love is in the air here too. I got Mom's Betta a couple of snails to keep him company after his last snail went over the rainbow. They are a couple and spend a good long time making whoopee nearly every day. ~Kai > "ReBorn_Again" wrote: > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too soon? > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when spawning. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49474	From: Ray	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

Reborn, You may observe your Pearl Gourami's as being a bit pushy (mainly towards smaller fishes, if they are), but these Gourami's are one of the least (or THE least) aggressive Gourami in the hobby. As with any of them, they can be at least somewhat territorial at times. Note, that these and other Gourami's don't build as large of a nest as do Bettas, so don't look for a nest that size. They'll still build something respectable though. No, I'm not saying that the male Pearl Gourami's should be kept separate from the females unless you want them to breed, as they'll coexist fairly peacefully (at least most of the time, with possible occasional minor skirmishes -- as you've just seen). What I'm saying is that when you seriously intend to breed these fish, it's best to condition the female up, away from the male so as to build her up properly, before reintroducing her to him. In this way, you not only will be assured of a successful spawning, but there will be little if any aggression taking place -- as being quite ready, she will be the most willing to cooperate with the male giving him no cause to get aggressive. Having had the female for only two weeks, it would not be likely that she was fully conditioned for spawning, but if properly fed prior to you buying her thuis would still be possible (but not all that probable when fed on meager flakes in a fish store). Your best bet is to feed them both on more nutritious foods such as live blackworms, frozen bloodworms, frozen mosquito larvae and frozen mysis shrimp (or frozen gut-loaded [with spirolina] Brine Shrimp). Yes, if you do nothing, the fry will get eaten within the first week of their free-swimming, by the male and any other fish looking to be opportunists. Ideally, the pair should be set up in their own tank for breeding, but I can understand you situation with having the other fishes in there with them, and all the plants prevent you from removing them. You could consider transferring the Gourami's to another tank, since you just got a couple from Craig's list. I'll assume they're large enough for breeding since you were intending to use them for raising the fry anyway, and you can't do that in a small tank. If you leave the male and female together, they can occasionally breed -- just as you would expect any other of your fish to breed, but they'll only do so when they both are adequately conditioned. Of the pair, the male will most often be in a breeding mood as this occurs, and will be seen building a nest at that time. Higher temperatures will induce him to build nests and to be "in the mood." Keeping the temperature somewhat below their preferred level for spawning should normally reduce his tendancy for wanting to spawn -- and will reduce any aggression he may have, no matter how little he has of it right now. While your Guppies may not eat their own fry, since Gourami fry are about a tenth of the size of Guppy fry during their first week, there's every possiblity that they'll see them as as easy meal. Since you've bred Bettas, you know the size of their fry. Pearl Gourami fry are no bigger. If you do decide to move the pair to another tank, make sure that you also move a good amount of plants as they use this matter to help build their nests. Moving the whole nest -- once you're assured there are fry in it, by observing their tails hanging down from it (much like Betta fry), is quite unorthodox and something I've never heard of -- only because there's usually no necessity for it -- but if that's the only option then yes go right ahead and do that. You can transfer the nest by using a large bowl to submerge and slowly come up under it, retaining the nest in the bowl full of water. Then just transfer it to another than OF SIMILAR WATER at THE SAME TEMPERATURE. Transfer it to as large of a tank as you can as you'll be rearing the fry in this tank and will have the best chance of doing so in as large a tank as you can afford them. Make sure to transfer them only to a tank with a depth of no more than 4" of water until they can free-swim. With not having the male with them to retrieve them as they fall to the bottom, which some will, you don't want them falling to any large depth. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ReBorn_Again" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Thanks for trying to help. > > Priya is an adult female betta fish. > > I got the gouramis to be part of an attractive planted community tank, having read that they are shy and gentle fish. The male is a bit pushy with the others but hasn't seemed to have harmed any of them, with the exception of the female pearl gourami who is now missing scales (two of them). She doesn't appear to be afraid of him, but is staying away from his nest, which I only noticed yesterday afternoon among the floating duckweed. It looks like random bubbles all over the place, with a small area that is more solid bubbles. > > I've only had the female gourami for about 2 weeks; I've had the male for only 3 weeks. I thought he was only a juvenile and thought it would be neat to breed them when they were bigger, which I thought would be months from now. From the beginning he has tried to dominate her, often escorting her to one corner where he seems to want her to stay. He colored up to very bright colors - deep orange on his belly and blue on his tail (I thought it was the good food! - LOL) The female never seemed that afraid of him and would come out of her corner whenever he wasn't looking and swim around. The day before this all happened with him building the nest I found, they were acting scared and every time I looked they were both hiding on the bottom. They didn't even come out to eat that day. I hadn't cleaned the tank or done anything unusual. > > The one female Endler's guppy in that tank is huge and gives birth to around 50+ fry at a time. I can't seem to catch her without risking destroying my tank but I want fish in there that will eat most of her fry since it's too many for me to raise, so that was the job of the gouramis and the betta. That's how the female betta (Kalpana) got accidentally conditioned so she was really full of eggs, so we bred her with one of our males (the one with the best fins, per the advice here). > > The gourami tank is a heavily planted 20-gallon tank. > > Are you saying that pearl gourami should only be kept separated males from females unless you want them to breed? A lot of sources say to keep them in groups of 5. > > If I do nothing, will the fry just get eaten, by the male gourami and the other fish? If/when I see tails, should I move the whole nest to a rearing tank? > > If I leave the male and female together will they continue to spawn frequently so that no other fish can live with them? > > The guppies are a strange case. I have 7 in with a pair of spawning convicts and tho the pair chases the remaining convict and forces him into hiding, they leave the guppies alone! I have guppies in with my Jack Dempsey fry, too; the JD's are 1 1/4 inches and they leave the guppies alone (once the JD's realized they aren't fast enough to eat them). None of my guppies eat their own babies, and I wonder (guess I'll find out!) if they'll eat the fry of other fish or not. > > The guppies have been selectively bred (by living with predators) to be almost impossible to catch, so I'm kind of stuck with them now, short of removing all my plants and emptying the tanks. The juveniles can be tricked with food to come out and be caught but the old females are very very smart to me and my tricks. You know, they store sperm for 6 months so you can't even stop them from having babies! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'd like to give you some help here with some of your questions, but your narrative seems a bit confusing -- unless I missed something previously posted -- but your last post before your prior one dealing with breeding your Bettas only discussed how to tell the sexes of the Bettas and about your "long-fin" female Betta. I do notice you removed the spawning female to a tank of her own -- good move -- but where does Priya come in to this picture? What species and sex is Priya? > > > > I guess I'll intersperse some additional questions between yours, as not knowing exactly what you're referring to, I can't give you an answer unless I fully understand your statements. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ReBorn_Again" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > > > With your question of "how protective the parents are of their babies," what parents are you talking about? If you're talking about your male Pearl Gourami (?), they are like most other Anabantid male parent in that they are protective of their offspring only up to the point of their hatching. Beyond much further than that, they will soon loss their protective instinct and shortly after the fry's free-swimming stage the male may just as soon decide to eat any of them that he can. Whether to move Priya into his tank would depend on whether he is protecting a nest of eggs or fry at this time -- and/or, if Priya is large enough not to be eaten itself even if the male Pearl Gourami isn't even protecting a nest at this time. If he is protecting a nest, no other fish should be in with him. Is Priya a female Pearl Gourami, and a daughter of this male (you haven't explained that here, but your last sentence above seems to possibly indicate that). If so, then she's should be safe as long as she's not small enough to be eaten or harassed, and if he's not guarding a nest. > > > > > > > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too soon? > > > > This is where the question of adding Priya to the male Pearl Gourami's tank becomes quite "ify," if as you suggest, he and a female mate may have just spawned -- even though you're not really sure. If the female mate is no longer looking as though she's fat with eggs, the odds are they have spawned, especially since she is now being chased away from the spawning site and in a very rough manner. If he hasn't yet built a nest though -- as you seem to indicate, but leave questionable -- or if he was/is just starting to build the nest, they may well not have spawned yet if she still appears at least somewhat fat. > > > > A few questions here would be; how long has the male been in this tank? How long has he been building his nest? How long has the female been in this tank with him? How were they behaving during the time they've both been set up in this tank? Are you sure the female was ripe with eggs before you removed her? Since you're not sure of many things here, and since he's aggressive with his mate, this would not be a good time to add Priya. > > Observe what happens within the next two days and see if in fact any prospective fry hatch in his nest -- which will be seen as very tiny slivers of tails vibrating in the nest, and his retrieval of them as they drop out of the nest. If after several days you do not see any free-swimming fry, you'll know they have not spawned. > > > > Before adding the female (mate) back to his tank, condition her up well first, with the best foods you can offer her, before placing her back with the male. At this time his nest should be well formed. I don't know what size tank you're using, but I've always found the best approach was to use a clear divider, having her on one side and him on the other, since having her in view will keep his interest in nest building up -- and you'll see a change in her behavior of wanting to get to the male's side of the tank when she's ready to spawn. > > > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > > > Who are "they"? Are you talking about the pair of Pearl Gourami's here? You're not very clear. If so, as I previously stated -- if you intend to breed and RAISE any Peaerl Gouramis, they should ideally have NO other tankmates, except for snails. All other fish, besides the female Pearl Gourami (if she's ready to spawn) will be in danger of attack, and/or, these other fish (except for the baby Bristlenose) including the female Betta and Endler's Livebearers will try to eat any eggs or fry that they can. The Kuh;i Loaches may be too busy burrowing in the gravel to even notice, but still, the fry could be in danger long-term as they're being raised. > > > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when spawning. > > > > Yes, Pearl Gourami's are about the least aggressive of any of them. You may want to get a good book on them if you're looking for more in-depth info on breeding them. Ray > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49475	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

We noticed nerite snail eggs all over the rocks in one tank. Unfortunately they're from the freebies they threw in, plain black ones not the pretty striped zebra ones. I've yet to see them mate but maybe they prefer the dark? Sadly, (but I'm feeling less overwhelmed now) the gourami nest was gone this morning. The male gourami has nipped the female betta's fins and I think she is the culprit. But at least all the fish are able to swim in the whole tank again and the gouramis are getting along with each other again! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Love is in the air here too. I got Mom's Betta a couple of snails to keep him company after his last snail went over the rainbow. They are a couple and spend a good long time making whoopee nearly every day. > ~Kai > > > > > "ReBorn_Again" wrote: > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too soon? > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when spawning. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49476	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

Thank you again! :) I've got a tank of baby angelfish I got on aquabid, and after reading up on them and seeing how important the fat-soluble vitamins are, I switched them to frozen food (1 meal a day), but to keep the food from going bad, once a cube is thawed I've been going around to all the tanks giving the fish a bit of it, so they're getting a lot of good food - I got the variety pack so it's bloodworms, daphnia, brine shrimp, krill, etc. I got high-quality algae wafers (with beets, carrots, spirulina, etc.) for the bristlenose catfish when I found out they're a rare kind, to get them in breeding condition. The fish all like them too (even the dog does, it ate the whole first package when I left it in reach one time). I'm hoping the really good food helps the guppy fry grow faster so I can move them on out (to the pet store). We cross-bred some Endlers (feeder guppies) with fancy guppies to get the snakeskin look but then I found out as the first batches of fry grew up that they were orange tiger endlers, which is cooler, imho! Now we want to move out the crossbred ones and continue breeding the orange tigers. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Reborn, You may observe your Pearl Gourami's as being a bit pushy (mainly towards smaller fishes, if they are), but these Gourami's are one of the least (or THE least) aggressive Gourami in the hobby. As with any of them, they can be at least somewhat territorial at times. Note, that these and other Gourami's don't build as large of a nest as do Bettas, so don't look for a nest that size. They'll still build something respectable though. > > No, I'm not saying that the male Pearl Gourami's should be kept separate from the females unless you want them to breed, as they'll coexist fairly peacefully (at least most of the time, with possible occasional minor skirmishes -- as you've just seen). What I'm saying is that when you seriously intend to breed these fish, it's best to condition the female up, away from the male so as to build her up properly, before reintroducing her to him. In this way, you not only will be assured of a successful spawning, but there will be little if any aggression taking place -- as being quite ready, she will be the most willing to cooperate with the male giving him no cause to get aggressive. > > Having had the female for only two weeks, it would not be likely that she was fully conditioned for spawning, but if properly fed prior to you buying her thuis would still be possible (but not all that probable when fed on meager flakes in a fish store). Your best bet is to feed them both on more nutritious foods such as live blackworms, frozen bloodworms, frozen mosquito larvae and frozen mysis shrimp (or frozen gut-loaded [with spirolina] Brine Shrimp). > > Yes, if you do nothing, the fry will get eaten within the first week of their free-swimming, by the male and any other fish looking to be opportunists. Ideally, the pair should be set up in their own tank for breeding, but I can understand you situation with having the other fishes in there with them, and all the plants prevent you from removing them. You could consider transferring the Gourami's to another tank, since you just got a couple from Craig's list. I'll assume they're large enough for breeding since you were intending to use them for raising the fry anyway, and you can't do that in a small tank. > > If you leave the male and female together, they can occasionally breed -- just as you would expect any other of your fish to breed, but they'll only do so when they both are adequately conditioned. Of the pair, the male will most often be in a breeding mood as this occurs, and will be seen building a nest at that time. Higher temperatures will induce him to build nests and to be "in the mood." Keeping the temperature somewhat below their preferred level for spawning should normally reduce his tendancy for wanting to spawn -- and will reduce any aggression he may have, no matter how little he has of it right now. > > While your Guppies may not eat their own fry, since Gourami fry are about a tenth of the size of Guppy fry during their first week, there's every possiblity that they'll see them as as easy meal. Since you've bred Bettas, you know the size of their fry. Pearl Gourami fry are no bigger. > > If you do decide to move the pair to another tank, make sure that you also move a good amount of plants as they use this matter to help build their nests. Moving the whole nest -- once you're assured there are fry in it, by observing their tails hanging down from it (much like Betta fry), is quite unorthodox and something I've never heard of -- only because there's usually no necessity for it -- but if that's the only option then yes go right ahead and do that. You can transfer the nest by using a large bowl to submerge and slowly come up under it, retaining the nest in the bowl full of water. Then just transfer it to another than OF SIMILAR WATER at THE SAME TEMPERATURE. Transfer it to as large of a tank as you can as you'll be rearing the fry in this tank and will have the best chance of doing so in as large a tank as you can afford them. Make sure to transfer them only to a tank with a depth of no more than 4" of water until they can free-swim. With not having the male with them to retrieve them as they fall to the bottom, which some will, you don't want them falling to any large depth. Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49477	From: LindaS	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Breeding Bettas

I'll be excited to learn how the breeding episodes turn out. When the male bit the female. Where did he bite? I thought you couldn't have heaters or filters with Betta's. I'm pretty sure you can't have filters when fry are in their bubble nests. If there are heaters you can have, are these aquarium heaters? Or do they make them for a large straight bowl? LindaS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49478	From: ReBorn_Again	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Bettas

You can have sponge filters with fry. That's what a lot of professional breeders use. If you keep one running in another tank, it gets filled with the denitrifying bacteria, so you can put it in the spawning tank to keep the water very clean, then you don't need to starve the parents to keep the water clean. I heard they need the water pretty warm, close to 80F to spawn, so I thought a heater was necessary. Priya, our female who just spawned, was bitten several times on the fins. Her bottom fin was shredded and her tail had a chunk out of it. She seems fine in her bowl now - she's swimming around, eating like a pig. So far no sign of fin rot or any baddies. She doesn't look much worse than when I tried to put her with Kalpana, another female betta, in the 20 gallon tank and they got into it. Priya really beat up on Kalpana when they were together without taking any damage herself, so I was a little surprised that she didn't bite the male (Krishna) at all. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "LindaS" <maxinatrillion@...> wrote: > > I'll be excited to learn how the breeding episodes turn out. When the male bit the female. Where did he bite? > I thought you couldn't have heaters or filters with Betta's. I'm pretty sure you can't have filters when fry are in their bubble nests. > If there are heaters you can have, are these aquarium heaters? Or do they make them for a large straight bowl? > LindaS >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49479	From: Majd Nazari	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

________________________________ From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, November 5, 2010 5:43:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? Love is in the air here too.  I got Mom's Betta a couple of snails to keep him company after his last snail went over the rainbow.  They are a couple and spend a good long time making whoopee nearly every day. ~Kai > "ReBorn_Again" wrote: > > I guess love is in the air here!  Now the male pearl gourami is making a bubble >nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank.  We had put the >female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to recover >instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put Priya, the one >who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > So 2 questions:  First, should I move Priya?  I'd really like to keep the baby >gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways.  I don't know how >protective the parents are of their babies.  I'm sure Priya would try to eat >some.  Would she get hurt by the dad? > > Second question:  He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of the tank >too.  So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest or if they >already spawned.  She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she doesn't look as >fat.  Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only build it right when >they spawn?  There is a lot of duckweed floating where he chose to build it, and >some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, so I could have not noticed >it.  I did notice that yesterday they were acting weird - hiding a lot and not >too interested in eating.  She has a bite mark on her side, some scales >missing.  Should I move her too, or would it be too soon? > > Their tankmates are:  the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby bristlenose >(about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of snails.  Are they all >ok to stay? > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how gouramis >behave when they are spawning and raising their family?  I've heard the pearl >ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when spawning. > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49480	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Little tiny white worms

While I agree that more gravel vacs and water changes need to be done to fix this situation, I cannot agree with "the more the better" idea that has been expressed here. Changing too much at a time will drastically alter water chemistry, quickly, which can be deadly to the fish. Frequent small changes are much safer and healthier than infrequent large changes. No aquarium should warrant a 50% change at a time. More than 30% at a time is considered excessive and dangerous. In a situation such as this, water testing is a must to determine how much change needs to take place overall, and then a plan to clean it up gradually should be set into place and followed. Initially, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH should be tested in the tank before any new changes are made. Before a water change, pH of the tap water or source water should also be tested to be sure it matches that in the tank. If the pH differs by too much (more than .3) then the amount of water changed each time should be minimal (10%) and frequent (daily) so that the pH is not being altered drastically. To not pay attention to that could result in pH shock, which can be instantly deadly. Beyond the initial clean up or beginning of clean up, pH should be tested in both tank and tap before each water change until the tank is in a stable and healthy condition... and then periodically throughout the year, especially at season change or during drastic weather changes. pH in our tap water and well water will change during the course of year, and this applies to anyone, anywhere. The only way to know where its at and how much it will affect your tank is to test it alongside of testing the tank water. Please don't do drastic, large water changes to quickly "fix" this type of problem. If the problem is as has been assumed in this thread, then it should show up in the water testing. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > >Thanks for all the comments. Looks like I need > >to do PWC and more thoroughly. The worms are > >harmless :). So far they have not caused any > >problems. > > > >Scott > The worms are harmless and food for the > fishes BUT they are a sign of a much greater > problem, pollution. There is excess food, fish > waste and plant waste present in the tank with a > hardy population of these free living worms. The > septic tank your fish are living in needs to be > flushed a lot more often. Gravel vacuums are > great and do a lot of good but just changing a > major amount of water once a week to 10 days is > even better. > The worms come to the surface because you change > their living conditions with the water changes, > they want to get away from the fresh water. > Planaria are 1/2 to 3/4 inch long brown to red > Flat worms. They glide on a skin covered with > velvety hairs which are constantly moving causing > a turbulent water flow beneath them. They belong > to a class of animals called Turbulent-arians or > more correctly Turbellarias. They don't squirm > or swim in that sense and they are not white. > > Take away from this, you need to work your way up > to at least 50% water change once a week. Flush > the toilet more often. It will keep the chemistry > more stable and make everything more healthy. If > you fertilize the plants by additions to the > water column, you need to do a much greater > change to return the chemistry back to the > starting point > > Nature doesn't scrub the rocks, she just changes > the water over and over and over . . . > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > >> > >> If you don't do really good gravel cleanings (especially if it's a > >> planted tank) you will often get planaria (they are flat like worms, and > >> tend to move around like inch worms do, I have never seen mine swimming, > >> but that doesn't mean that they don't do it while I"m not looking, LOL). > >> How often do you gravel clean your tanks and how well do you do it? I > >> have them in my mystery snail breeding tank because the tank is so > >> heavily planted and it's hard to clean the gravel really well with > >> plants growing in it. > >> > >> Amber > >> > >> On 11/1/2010 10:39 AM, ScottW wrote: > >> > > >> > I don't know where these things are coming from but I particularly > >> > notice them after water changes. They swim near the top and sort of > >> > swim vertically. My fish just seem to eat them, especially the angels. > >> > I have noticed them in all my tanks though. I have seen them in all my > >> > tanks but now I just see them in one of my peacock cichlid tanks. Let > >> > me tell you about my tanks: > >> > > > > 55g > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49481	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

Nerites lay eggs in freshwater tanks, but the young do not survive. They need brackish water to raise young, and maybe some other requirements. I’ve asked around but never found anyone who has been successful breeding them in captivity. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ReBorn_Again Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? We noticed nerite snail eggs all over the rocks in one tank. Unfortunately they're from the freebies they threw in, plain black ones not the pretty striped zebra ones. I've yet to see them mate but maybe they prefer the dark? Sadly, (but I'm feeling less overwhelmed now) the gourami nest was gone this morning. The male gourami has nipped the female betta's fins and I think she is the culprit. But at least all the fish are able to swim in the whole tank again and the gouramis are getting along with each other again! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Love is in the air here too. I got Mom's Betta a couple of snails to keep him company after his last snail went over the rainbow. They are a couple and spend a good long time making whoopee nearly every day. > ~Kai > > > > > "ReBorn_Again" wrote: > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too soon? > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when spawning. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49482	From: haecklers	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

I read online a pretty good description of how to do it - you remove the eggs to a gallon container of ocean water, and keep it in a lot of light so infusoria grows. The eggs are good for about a month and can take that long to hatch. Keep the baby snails in salt water for several weeks. When they're pea-sized, start changing out some of the salt water for fresh water, like an eye dropper full at a time, twice a day. When they're fully in fresh water they can be put in freshwater tanks. One nerite breeder has worked with the olive ones to get them to breed successfully in freshwater, and no saltwater or brackish water is needed for them. I don't know how to get that kind, tho, and I like the zebra ones. The kids and I are planning on driving to the shore to get real ocean water (several gallons) to raise our nerites in. I'm thinking of just keeping it outside in a bucket until it's needed, marking where to refill it as it evaporates. I don't think it will freeze due to the salt content. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Nerites lay eggs in freshwater tanks, but the young do not survive. They > need brackish water to raise young, and maybe some other requirements. I've > asked around but never found anyone who has been successful breeding them in > captivity. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ReBorn_Again > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > > > > > We noticed nerite snail eggs all over the rocks in one tank. Unfortunately > they're from the freebies they threw in, plain black ones not the pretty > striped zebra ones. I've yet to see them mate but maybe they prefer the > dark? > > Sadly, (but I'm feeling less overwhelmed now) the gourami nest was gone this > morning. The male gourami has nipped the female betta's fins and I think she > is the culprit. But at least all the fish are able to swim in the whole tank > again and the gouramis are getting along with each other again! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Love is in the air here too. I got Mom's Betta a couple of snails to keep > him company after his last snail went over the rainbow. They are a couple > and spend a good long time making whoopee nearly every day. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > "ReBorn_Again" wrote: > > > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a > bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had > put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to > recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put > Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the > baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't > know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would > try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of > the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest > or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she > doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only > build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he > chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, > so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting > weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark > on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too > soon? > > > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby > bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of > snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how > gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard > the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when > spawning. > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49483	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Nerite Snails

Let us know how it comes out. One of the advantages of nerites is they DO NOT reproduce in fresh water. It would be nice to be able to have a separate brackish tank when you need a new batch however. I love the zebras, but their life span is only about one year. I have some zebras older than that, but not many. Trying the olives now to see if they live longer. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of haecklers Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? I read online a pretty good description of how to do it - you remove the eggs to a gallon container of ocean water, and keep it in a lot of light so infusoria grows. The eggs are good for about a month and can take that long to hatch. Keep the baby snails in salt water for several weeks. When they're pea-sized, start changing out some of the salt water for fresh water, like an eye dropper full at a time, twice a day. When they're fully in fresh water they can be put in freshwater tanks. One nerite breeder has worked with the olive ones to get them to breed successfully in freshwater, and no saltwater or brackish water is needed for them. I don't know how to get that kind, tho, and I like the zebra ones. The kids and I are planning on driving to the shore to get real ocean water (several gallons) to raise our nerites in. I'm thinking of just keeping it outside in a bucket until it's needed, marking where to refill it as it evaporates. I don't think it will freeze due to the salt content. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Nerites lay eggs in freshwater tanks, but the young do not survive. They > need brackish water to raise young, and maybe some other requirements. I've > asked around but never found anyone who has been successful breeding them in > captivity. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of ReBorn_Again > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:16 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > > > > > We noticed nerite snail eggs all over the rocks in one tank. Unfortunately > they're from the freebies they threw in, plain black ones not the pretty > striped zebra ones. I've yet to see them mate but maybe they prefer the > dark? > > Sadly, (but I'm feeling less overwhelmed now) the gourami nest was gone this > morning. The male gourami has nipped the female betta's fins and I think she > is the culprit. But at least all the fish are able to swim in the whole tank > again and the gouramis are getting along with each other again! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Love is in the air here too. I got Mom's Betta a couple of snails to keep > him company after his last snail went over the rainbow. They are a couple > and spend a good long time making whoopee nearly every day. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > "ReBorn_Again" wrote: > > > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a > bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had > put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to > recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put > Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the > baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't > know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would > try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of > the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest > or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she > doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only > build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he > chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, > so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting > weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark > on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too > soon? > > > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby > bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of > snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how > gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard > the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when > spawning. > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49484	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/5/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

Yet another bit by the "peaceful" gourami myth. Very few gouramis are actually peaceful, and those are ones you do not often see in the trade. The "saving grace", if you want to call it that, is that their aggression is mostly directed at conspecifics (those of the same species). Only occasionally do they do more than just chase other species. If the gouramis are not properly housed, they will have, generally, a less aggressive personality, thus, lending credence to this myth. This revelation came to me mumblety-mumble years ago when I was transitioning from high school into college. While in school, I could not keep anything but a small tank in my prison cell sized room at school, so I maintained a small 5 1/2 gallon tank at school. (I got my large tank fix at home on various weekends that were maintained by my father.) This tank came along with me to college. The residents were a pair of dwarf gouramis, a few zebra fish and some sort of small scavenger fish that I do not recall at the moment. My thoughts went something like this. I couldn't have a bare tank, and rock work would take up too much room, but I had to do something to protect the gouramis from the wild swimming of the zebras. Flashing into my head came the idea of plants. I stuffed the tank with live plants, leaving a swimming area for the fish to swim unimpeded. It took me a bit to get the mixture of plants correct, growing, but not too fast, and stuff that may, possibly, not outgrow the tank. I don't remember the mix, since those notes have long been lost, but it worked. What a change overcame my little dwarfs. At first, I hardly saw them, suiting their advertised general timid behavior, and how they acted in a fairly bare tank. When the plants had been finalized, a great change came over them. When the male came out, he would chase everyone back into the plants and have the whole swimming area to himself. When the female came out, she was a bit more tolerant of the other fish, but not by much. When they both came out, the male would do the chasing, and also include the female in his targets. I never did see a successful spawn by them in that tank, but I really did not expect to for the size of the tank and the number of fish in it. It was a good tank, lasting me all through college and twice yearly trips home at Christmas (3-4 weeks) and for the summer. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ReBorn_Again Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? Ray, Thanks for trying to help. Priya is an adult female betta fish. I got the gouramis to be part of an attractive planted community tank, having read that they are shy and gentle fish. The male is a bit pushy with the others but hasn't seemed to have harmed any of them, with the exception of the female pearl gourami who is now missing scales (two of them). She doesn't appear to be afraid of him, but is staying away from his nest, which I only noticed yesterday afternoon among the floating duckweed. It looks like random bubbles all over the place, with a small area that is more solid bubbles. I've only had the female gourami for about 2 weeks; I've had the male for only 3 weeks. I thought he was only a juvenile and thought it would be neat to breed them when they were bigger, which I thought would be months from now. From the beginning he has tried to dominate her, often escorting her to one corner where he seems to want her to stay. He colored up to very bright colors - deep orange on his belly and blue on his tail (I thought it was the good food! - LOL) The female never seemed that afraid of him and would come out of her corner whenever he wasn't looking and swim around. The day before this all happened with him building the nest I found, they were acting scared and every time I looked they were both hiding on the bottom. They didn't even come out to eat that day. I hadn't cleaned the tank or done anything unusual. The one female Endler's guppy in that tank is huge and gives birth to around 50+ fry at a time. I can't seem to catch her without risking destroying my tank but I want fish in there that will eat most of her fry since it's too many for me to raise, so that was the job of the gouramis and the betta. That's how the female betta (Kalpana) got accidentally conditioned so she was really full of eggs, so we bred her with one of our males (the one with the best fins, per the advice here). The gourami tank is a heavily planted 20-gallon tank. Are you saying that pearl gourami should only be kept separated males from females unless you want them to breed? A lot of sources say to keep them in groups of 5. If I do nothing, will the fry just get eaten, by the male gourami and the other fish? If/when I see tails, should I move the whole nest to a rearing tank? If I leave the male and female together will they continue to spawn frequently so that no other fish can live with them? The guppies are a strange case. I have 7 in with a pair of spawning convicts and tho the pair chases the remaining convict and forces him into hiding, they leave the guppies alone! I have guppies in with my Jack Dempsey fry, too; the JD's are 1 1/4 inches and they leave the guppies alone (once the JD's realized they aren't fast enough to eat them). None of my guppies eat their own babies, and I wonder (guess I'll find out!) if they'll eat the fry of other fish or not. The guppies have been selectively bred (by living with predators) to be almost impossible to catch, so I'm kind of stuck with them now, short of removing all my plants and emptying the tanks. The juveniles can be tricked with food to come out and be caught but the old females are very very smart to me and my tricks. You know, they store sperm for 6 months so you can't even stop them from having babies! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > I'd like to give you some help here with some of your questions, but your narrative seems a bit confusing -- unless I missed something previously posted -- but your last post before your prior one dealing with breeding your Bettas only discussed how to tell the sexes of the Bettas and about your "long-fin" female Betta. I do notice you removed the spawning female to a tank of her own -- good move -- but where does Priya come in to this picture? What species and sex is Priya? > > I guess I'll intersperse some additional questions between yours, as not knowing exactly what you're referring to, I can't give you an answer unless I fully understand your statements. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ReBorn_Again" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > With your question of "how protective the parents are of their babies," what parents are you talking about? If you're talking about your male Pearl Gourami (?), they are like most other Anabantid male parent in that they are protective of their offspring only up to the point of their hatching. Beyond much further than that, they will soon loss their protective instinct and shortly after the fry's free-swimming stage the male may just as soon decide to eat any of them that he can. Whether to move Priya into his tank would depend on whether he is protecting a nest of eggs or fry at this time -- and/or, if Priya is large enough not to be eaten itself even if the male Pearl Gourami isn't even protecting a nest at this time. If he is protecting a nest, no other fish should be in with him. Is Priya a female Pearl Gourami, and a daughter of this male (you haven't explained that here, but your last sentence above seems to possibly indicate that). If so, then she's should be safe as long as she's not small enough to be eaten or harassed, and if he's not guarding a nest. > > > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or would it be too soon? > > This is where the question of adding Priya to the male Pearl Gourami's tank becomes quite "ify," if as you suggest, he and a female mate may have just spawned -- even though you're not really sure. If the female mate is no longer looking as though she's fat with eggs, the odds are they have spawned, especially since she is now being chased away from the spawning site and in a very rough manner. If he hasn't yet built a nest though -- as you seem to indicate, but leave questionable -- or if he was/is just starting to build the nest, they may well not have spawned yet if she still appears at least somewhat fat. > > A few questions here would be; how long has the male been in this tank? How long has he been building his nest? How long has the female been in this tank with him? How were they behaving during the time they've both been set up in this tank? Are you sure the female was ripe with eggs before you removed her? Since you're not sure of many things here, and since he's aggressive with his mate, this would not be a good time to add Priya. > Observe what happens within the next two days and see if in fact any prospective fry hatch in his nest -- which will be seen as very tiny slivers of tails vibrating in the nest, and his retrieval of them as they drop out of the nest. If after several days you do not see any free-swimming fry, you'll know they have not spawned. > > Before adding the female (mate) back to his tank, condition her up well first, with the best foods you can offer her, before placing her back with the male. At this time his nest should be well formed. I don't know what size tank you're using, but I've always found the best approach was to use a clear divider, having her on one side and him on the other, since having her in view will keep his interest in nest building up -- and you'll see a change in her behavior of wanting to get to the male's side of the tank when she's ready to spawn. > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > Who are "they"? Are you talking about the pair of Pearl Gourami's here? You're not very clear. If so, as I previously stated -- if you intend to breed and RAISE any Peaerl Gouramis, they should ideally have NO other tankmates, except for snails. All other fish, besides the female Pearl Gourami (if she's ready to spawn) will be in danger of attack, and/or, these other fish (except for the baby Bristlenose) including the female Betta and Endler's Livebearers will try to eat any eggs or fry that they can. The Kuh;i Loaches may be too busy burrowing in the gravel to even notice, but still, the fry could be in danger long-term as they're being raised. > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when spawning. > > Yes, Pearl Gourami's are about the least aggressive of any of them. You may want to get a good book on them if you're looking for more in-depth info on breeding them. Ray > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49485	From: Ray	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

\\Steve//, I'm not very sure (I tend to doubt) that the "peaceful" gourami is a myth, although I will eagerly admit that lately I see reports of aggression of even from what were notoriously extremely peaceful gourami's, even the Dwarf (Colisa lalia) Gourami. Perhaps this is due to some recent genetic factor being accidentally established in them as they're bred in the Far East. When I first started reading of this behavior on this and other lists, in this species a couple of years ago, I found it very hard to believe -- and still do, as any kind of typical behavior in this fish. Pearl Gourami's are, and have been know for "eons" in the hobby, to be nearly equally as peaceful. When breeding both of these Anabantids during those many years I was also breeding Bettas, I've never observed any sort of aggression in either of these two species. I don't really know what you mean by these species needing to be "properly housed," but perhaps a smaller than adequate tank may be able to lead to some aggression when there's no room for any kind of territoriality to exist. If this is your meaning of their needing proper housing, in that they should not be kept in any numbers in small 5 gallon tanks, I fully agree with you, as you would probably even get on your wife's nerves if having to live together in a closet < g >, although I'm not even sure if you're referring to the size tank. A bare tank is asking for trouble almost even with all but the mildest of fish, as all's they'd have to focus on all day would be each other -- especially so in a small tank where they can't get out of each others' face. For any kind of a more tranquil setting, even lending to less potential aggression from any fish having the possibility to display it, a planted tank goes a long ways in encouraging more peaceful behavior in the majority of our aquarium fishes. While there's no need for a jungle of plants, an average setting of several plants in the aquascape is adequate. I used to breed my Dwarf Gourami's in 10 gallon tanks (and Pearl Gourami's in 15 gallon tanks), with several types of plants -- including some that could be used by them, as being essential to nest building of these species -- and which they'd bite off as needed; the bunch plants (Cabomba and Myriophyllum) being so used. While I've bred them for years -- those days one could readily find females being sold in the LFS along with the males -- I can't say that I ever encountered aggressive behavior in these species, which all the more puzzled me as I started reading of this more deviant (in my estimation) conduct the past few years. As with many more advanced fishes though, and as is typically seen among Cichlids, individual behavior can vary immensely within the confines of that species' known behavior, and/or from the normal behavior of the average fish of the species -- and this can include gourami's as being that diverse in their conduct and mannerisms towards their conspecifics. I offer that this more aggressive behavior, if it does occur in these gourami's, is a result of atypical (not characteristic) demeanor -- perhaps as being incidental with the genetics of the imported populations. I'd have to offer too, that the smaller (dwarf) Honey Gourami -- Colisa Chunna -- is not in my estimation seen to be aggressive either. We do know that others (Blue Gourami's, as an example) of the clan can be absolute terrors though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Yet another bit by the "peaceful" gourami myth. Very few gouramis are > actually peaceful, and those are ones you do not often see in the trade. The > "saving grace", if you want to call it that, is that their aggression is > mostly directed at conspecifics (those of the same species). Only > occasionally do they do more than just chase other species. > > If the gouramis are not properly housed, they will have, generally, a less > aggressive personality, thus, lending credence to this myth. This revelation > came to me mumblety-mumble years ago when I was transitioning from high > school into college. While in school, I could not keep anything but a small > tank in my prison cell sized room at school, so I maintained a small 5 1/2 > gallon tank at school. (I got my large tank fix at home on various weekends > that were maintained by my father.) This tank came along with me to college. > The residents were a pair of dwarf gouramis, a few zebra fish and some sort > of small scavenger fish that I do not recall at the moment. > > My thoughts went something like this. I couldn't have a bare tank, and rock > work would take up too much room, but I had to do something to protect the > gouramis from the wild swimming of the zebras. Flashing into my head came > the idea of plants. I stuffed the tank with live plants, leaving a swimming > area for the fish to swim unimpeded. It took me a bit to get the mixture of > plants correct, growing, but not too fast, and stuff that may, possibly, not > outgrow the tank. I don't remember the mix, since those notes have long been > lost, but it worked. > > What a change overcame my little dwarfs. At first, I hardly saw them, > suiting their advertised general timid behavior, and how they acted in a > fairly bare tank. When the plants had been finalized, a great change came > over them. When the male came out, he would chase everyone back into the > plants and have the whole swimming area to himself. When the female came > out, she was a bit more tolerant of the other fish, but not by much. When > they both came out, the male would do the chasing, and also include the > female in his targets. > > I never did see a successful spawn by them in that tank, but I really did > not expect to for the size of the tank and the number of fish in it. It was > a good tank, lasting me all through college and twice yearly trips home at > Christmas (3-4 weeks) and for the summer. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ReBorn_Again > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > Ray, > > Thanks for trying to help. > > Priya is an adult female betta fish. > > I got the gouramis to be part of an attractive planted community tank, > having read that they are shy and gentle fish. The male is a bit pushy with > the others but hasn't seemed to have harmed any of them, with the exception > of the female pearl gourami who is now missing scales (two of them). She > doesn't appear to be afraid of him, but is staying away from his nest, which > I only noticed yesterday afternoon among the floating duckweed. It looks > like random bubbles all over the place, with a small area that is more solid > bubbles. > > I've only had the female gourami for about 2 weeks; I've had the male for > only 3 weeks. I thought he was only a juvenile and thought it would be neat > to breed them when they were bigger, which I thought would be months from > now. From the beginning he has tried to dominate her, often escorting her > to one corner where he seems to want her to stay. He colored up to very > bright colors - deep orange on his belly and blue on his tail (I thought it > was the good food! - LOL) The female never seemed that afraid of him and > would come out of her corner whenever he wasn't looking and swim around. > The day before this all happened with him building the nest I found, they > were acting scared and every time I looked they were both hiding on the > bottom. They didn't even come out to eat that day. I hadn't cleaned the > tank or done anything unusual. > > The one female Endler's guppy in that tank is huge and gives birth to around > 50+ fry at a time. I can't seem to catch her without risking destroying my > tank but I want fish in there that will eat most of her fry since it's too > many for me to raise, so that was the job of the gouramis and the betta. > That's how the female betta (Kalpana) got accidentally conditioned so she > was really full of eggs, so we bred her with one of our males (the one with > the best fins, per the advice here). > > The gourami tank is a heavily planted 20-gallon tank. > > Are you saying that pearl gourami should only be kept separated males from > females unless you want them to breed? A lot of sources say to keep them in > groups of 5. > > If I do nothing, will the fry just get eaten, by the male gourami and the > other fish? If/when I see tails, should I move the whole nest to a rearing > tank? > > If I leave the male and female together will they continue to spawn > frequently so that no other fish can live with them? > > The guppies are a strange case. I have 7 in with a pair of spawning > convicts and tho the pair chases the remaining convict and forces him into > hiding, they leave the guppies alone! I have guppies in with my Jack > Dempsey fry, too; the JD's are 1 1/4 inches and they leave the guppies alone > (once the JD's realized they aren't fast enough to eat them). None of my > guppies eat their own babies, and I wonder (guess I'll find out!) if they'll > eat the fry of other fish or not. > > The guppies have been selectively bred (by living with predators) to be > almost impossible to catch, so I'm kind of stuck with them now, short of > removing all my plants and emptying the tanks. The juveniles can be tricked > with food to come out and be caught but the old females are very very smart > to me and my tricks. You know, they store sperm for 6 months so you can't > even stop them from having babies! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'd like to give you some help here with some of your questions, but your > narrative seems a bit confusing -- unless I missed something previously > posted -- but your last post before your prior one dealing with breeding > your Bettas only discussed how to tell the sexes of the Bettas and about > your "long-fin" female Betta. I do notice you removed the spawning female > to a tank of her own -- good move -- but where does Priya come in to this > picture? What species and sex is Priya? > > > > I guess I'll intersperse some additional questions between yours, as not > knowing exactly what you're referring to, I can't give you an answer unless > I fully understand your statements. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ReBorn_Again" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a > bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had > put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to > recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put > Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep > the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I > don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya > would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > > > With your question of "how protective the parents are of their babies," > what parents are you talking about? If you're talking about your male Pearl > Gourami (?), they are like most other Anabantid male parent in that they are > protective of their offspring only up to the point of their hatching. > Beyond much further than that, they will soon loss their protective instinct > and shortly after the fry's free-swimming stage the male may just as soon > decide to eat any of them that he can. Whether to move Priya into his tank > would depend on whether he is protecting a nest of eggs or fry at this time > -- and/or, if Priya is large enough not to be eaten itself even if the male > Pearl Gourami isn't even protecting a nest at this time. If he is > protecting a nest, no other fish should be in with him. Is Priya a female > Pearl Gourami, and a daughter of this male (you haven't explained that here, > but your last sentence above seems to possibly indicate that). If so, then > she's should be safe as long as she's not small enough to be eaten or > harassed, and if he's not guarding a nest. > > > > > > > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of > the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble > nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she > doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only > build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where > he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I > expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they > were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has > a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or > would it be too soon? > > > > This is where the question of adding Priya to the male Pearl Gourami's > tank becomes quite "ify," if as you suggest, he and a female mate may have > just spawned -- even though you're not really sure. If the female mate is > no longer looking as though she's fat with eggs, the odds are they have > spawned, especially since she is now being chased away from the spawning > site and in a very rough manner. If he hasn't yet built a nest though -- as > you seem to indicate, but leave questionable -- or if he was/is just > starting to build the nest, they may well not have spawned yet if she still > appears at least somewhat fat. > > > > A few questions here would be; how long has the male been in this tank? > How long has he been building his nest? How long has the female been in > this tank with him? How were they behaving during the time they've both > been set up in this tank? Are you sure the female was ripe with eggs before > you removed her? Since you're not sure of many things here, and since he's > aggressive with his mate, this would not be a good time to add Priya. > > Observe what happens within the next two days and see if in fact any > prospective fry hatch in his nest -- which will be seen as very tiny slivers > of tails vibrating in the nest, and his retrieval of them as they drop out > of the nest. If after several days you do not see any free-swimming fry, > you'll know they have not spawned. > > > > Before adding the female (mate) back to his tank, condition her up well > first, with the best foods you can offer her, before placing her back with > the male. At this time his nest should be well formed. I don't know what > size tank you're using, but I've always found the best approach was to use a > clear divider, having her on one side and him on the other, since having her > in view will keep his interest in nest building up -- and you'll see a > change in her behavior of wanting to get to the male's side of the tank when > she's ready to spawn. > > > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby > bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of > snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > > > Who are "they"? Are you talking about the pair of Pearl Gourami's here? > You're not very clear. If so, as I previously stated -- if you intend to > breed and RAISE any Peaerl Gouramis, they should ideally have NO other > tankmates, except for snails. All other fish, besides the female Pearl > Gourami (if she's ready to spawn) will be in danger of attack, and/or, these > other fish (except for the baby Bristlenose) including the female Betta and > Endler's Livebearers will try to eat any eggs or fry that they can. The > Kuh;i Loaches may be too busy burrowing in the gravel to even notice, but > still, the fry could be in danger long-term as they're being raised. > > > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how > gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard > the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when > spawning. > > > > Yes, Pearl Gourami's are about the least aggressive of any of them. You > may want to get a good book on them if you're looking for more in-depth info > on breeding them. Ray > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49486	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly

This is mainly directed to Amber, but I thought most of you might get a kick out of it. It was sent to me as an attachment, but I've stuck it on the web, since an attachment will not come through with the settings here, so you need to click on this link to see it: http://www.landoctor.com/amber/fedexcastaway.wmv \\Steve// FedEx Answers The Question You probably remember the movie "Castaway," where Tom Hanks played a FedEx employee whose plane crashed and left him stranded for years on a remote island where he fought the elements to survive and struggled to hold onto his sanity by talking to volleyball he named " Wilson ." Do you remember the FedEx box that survived the plane crash, and which Hanks was compelled to deliver? Did you wonder what was in that FedEx Box? Well, here is a FedEx commercial that answers the question! Now we know! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49487	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly

Congrat's \\Steve//!   This one's a killer!    Bill --- On Sat, 11/6/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 10:52 AM This is mainly directed to Amber, but I thought most of you might get a kick out of it. It was sent to me as an attachment, but I've stuck it on the web, since an attachment will not come through with the settings here, so you need to click on this link to see it: http://www.landoctor.com/amber/fedexcastaway.wmv \\Steve// FedEx Answers The Question You probably remember the movie "Castaway," where Tom Hanks played a FedEx employee whose plane crashed and left him stranded for years on a remote island where he fought the elements to survive and struggled to hold onto his sanity by talking to volleyball he named " Wilson ."  Do you remember the FedEx box that survived the plane crash, and which Hanks was compelled to deliver?  Did you wonder what was in that FedEx Box? Well, here is a FedEx commercial that answers the question!  Now we know! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49488	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly

Steve, THAT WAS AWESOME!!!!! From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly This is mainly directed to Amber, but I thought most of you might get a kick out of it. It was sent to me as an attachment, but I've stuck it on the web, since an attachment will not come through with the settings here, so you need to click on this link to see it: http://www.landoctor.com/amber/fedexcastaway.wmv \\Steve// <file:///\\Steve\> FedEx Answers The Question You probably remember the movie "Castaway," where Tom Hanks played a FedEx employee whose plane crashed and left him stranded for years on a remote island where he fought the elements to survive and struggled to hold onto his sanity by talking to volleyball he named " Wilson ." Do you remember the FedEx box that survived the plane crash, and which Hanks was compelled to deliver? Did you wonder what was in that FedEx Box? Well, here is a FedEx commercial that answers the question! Now we know! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49489	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

Ray, Though I first observed this behavior in a 5 1/2 gallon tank way back when "Honky Tonk Women" was a hit, Grace Slick was singing about a White Rabbit (which is obviously referenced when Neo is told to follow the white rabbit) and the druggies were grooving on "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict", the behavior held true in larger tanks as well one I had gotten out of school and was able to devote more room to fishkeeping. In a relatively bare tank with few hiding spots, dwarf gouramis were very timid. In a similar tank with lots of cover to dive into, they had completely changed personalities and often became the kings of the tank. Since then, I have noted similar personality changes in other supposedly peaceful gouramis as well, though I never did do much work with pearls. You seem to be equating crowding with aggression, and I did not note that, which is often a typical scenario, with the dwarfs in a small tank with other fish. I probably would have kept honeys, if I could have found them, as they are a smaller fish. As for the properly housed, many gouramis are found in areas of slow moving waters, including swamps, with plants. Properly housed is recreating their natural environment. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? \\Steve//, I'm not very sure (I tend to doubt) that the "peaceful" gourami is a myth, although I will eagerly admit that lately I see reports of aggression of even from what were notoriously extremely peaceful gourami's, even the Dwarf (Colisa lalia) Gourami. Perhaps this is due to some recent genetic factor being accidentally established in them as they're bred in the Far East. When I first started reading of this behavior on this and other lists, in this species a couple of years ago, I found it very hard to believe -- and still do, as any kind of typical behavior in this fish. Pearl Gourami's are, and have been know for "eons" in the hobby, to be nearly equally as peaceful. When breeding both of these Anabantids during those many years I was also breeding Bettas, I've never observed any sort of aggression in either of these two species. I don't really know what you mean by these species needing to be "properly housed," but perhaps a smaller than adequate tank may be able to lead to some aggression when there's no room for any kind of territoriality to exist. If this is your meaning of their needing proper housing, in that they should not be kept in any numbers in small 5 gallon tanks, I fully agree with you, as you would probably even get on your wife's nerves if having to live together in a closet < g >, although I'm not even sure if you're referring to the size tank. A bare tank is asking for trouble almost even with all but the mildest of fish, as all's they'd have to focus on all day would be each other -- especially so in a small tank where they can't get out of each others' face. For any kind of a more tranquil setting, even lending to less potential aggression from any fish having the possibility to display it, a planted tank goes a long ways in encouraging more peaceful behavior in the majority of our aquarium fishes. While there's no need for a jungle of plants, an average setting of several plants in the aquascape is adequate. I used to breed my Dwarf Gourami's in 10 gallon tanks (and Pearl Gourami's in 15 gallon tanks), with several types of plants -- including some that could be used by them, as being essential to nest building of these species -- and which they'd bite off as needed; the bunch plants (Cabomba and Myriophyllum) being so used. While I've bred them for years -- those days one could readily find females being sold in the LFS along with the males -- I can't say that I ever encountered aggressive behavior in these species, which all the more puzzled me as I started reading of this more deviant (in my estimation) conduct the past few years. As with many more advanced fishes though, and as is typically seen among Cichlids, individual behavior can vary immensely within the confines of that species' known behavior, and/or from the normal behavior of the average fish of the species -- and this can include gourami's as being that diverse in their conduct and mannerisms towards their conspecifics. I offer that this more aggressive behavior, if it does occur in these gourami's, is a result of atypical (not characteristic) demeanor -- perhaps as being incidental with the genetics of the imported populations. I'd have to offer too, that the smaller (dwarf) Honey Gourami -- Colisa Chunna -- is not in my estimation seen to be aggressive either. We do know that others (Blue Gourami's, as an example) of the clan can be absolute terrors though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Yet another bit by the "peaceful" gourami myth. Very few gouramis are > actually peaceful, and those are ones you do not often see in the trade. The > "saving grace", if you want to call it that, is that their aggression is > mostly directed at conspecifics (those of the same species). Only > occasionally do they do more than just chase other species. > > If the gouramis are not properly housed, they will have, generally, a less > aggressive personality, thus, lending credence to this myth. This revelation > came to me mumblety-mumble years ago when I was transitioning from high > school into college. While in school, I could not keep anything but a small > tank in my prison cell sized room at school, so I maintained a small 5 1/2 > gallon tank at school. (I got my large tank fix at home on various weekends > that were maintained by my father.) This tank came along with me to college. > The residents were a pair of dwarf gouramis, a few zebra fish and some sort > of small scavenger fish that I do not recall at the moment. > > My thoughts went something like this. I couldn't have a bare tank, and rock > work would take up too much room, but I had to do something to protect the > gouramis from the wild swimming of the zebras. Flashing into my head came > the idea of plants. I stuffed the tank with live plants, leaving a swimming > area for the fish to swim unimpeded. It took me a bit to get the mixture of > plants correct, growing, but not too fast, and stuff that may, possibly, not > outgrow the tank. I don't remember the mix, since those notes have long been > lost, but it worked. > > What a change overcame my little dwarfs. At first, I hardly saw them, > suiting their advertised general timid behavior, and how they acted in a > fairly bare tank. When the plants had been finalized, a great change came > over them. When the male came out, he would chase everyone back into the > plants and have the whole swimming area to himself. When the female came > out, she was a bit more tolerant of the other fish, but not by much. When > they both came out, the male would do the chasing, and also include the > female in his targets. > > I never did see a successful spawn by them in that tank, but I really did > not expect to for the size of the tank and the number of fish in it. It was > a good tank, lasting me all through college and twice yearly trips home at > Christmas (3-4 weeks) and for the summer. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of ReBorn_Again > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > Ray, > > Thanks for trying to help. > > Priya is an adult female betta fish. > > I got the gouramis to be part of an attractive planted community tank, > having read that they are shy and gentle fish. The male is a bit pushy with > the others but hasn't seemed to have harmed any of them, with the exception > of the female pearl gourami who is now missing scales (two of them). She > doesn't appear to be afraid of him, but is staying away from his nest, which > I only noticed yesterday afternoon among the floating duckweed. It looks > like random bubbles all over the place, with a small area that is more solid > bubbles. > > I've only had the female gourami for about 2 weeks; I've had the male for > only 3 weeks. I thought he was only a juvenile and thought it would be neat > to breed them when they were bigger, which I thought would be months from > now. From the beginning he has tried to dominate her, often escorting her > to one corner where he seems to want her to stay. He colored up to very > bright colors - deep orange on his belly and blue on his tail (I thought it > was the good food! - LOL) The female never seemed that afraid of him and > would come out of her corner whenever he wasn't looking and swim around. > The day before this all happened with him building the nest I found, they > were acting scared and every time I looked they were both hiding on the > bottom. They didn't even come out to eat that day. I hadn't cleaned the > tank or done anything unusual. > > The one female Endler's guppy in that tank is huge and gives birth to around > 50+ fry at a time. I can't seem to catch her without risking destroying my > tank but I want fish in there that will eat most of her fry since it's too > many for me to raise, so that was the job of the gouramis and the betta. > That's how the female betta (Kalpana) got accidentally conditioned so she > was really full of eggs, so we bred her with one of our males (the one with > the best fins, per the advice here). > > The gourami tank is a heavily planted 20-gallon tank. > > Are you saying that pearl gourami should only be kept separated males from > females unless you want them to breed? A lot of sources say to keep them in > groups of 5. > > If I do nothing, will the fry just get eaten, by the male gourami and the > other fish? If/when I see tails, should I move the whole nest to a rearing > tank? > > If I leave the male and female together will they continue to spawn > frequently so that no other fish can live with them? > > The guppies are a strange case. I have 7 in with a pair of spawning > convicts and tho the pair chases the remaining convict and forces him into > hiding, they leave the guppies alone! I have guppies in with my Jack > Dempsey fry, too; the JD's are 1 1/4 inches and they leave the guppies alone > (once the JD's realized they aren't fast enough to eat them). None of my > guppies eat their own babies, and I wonder (guess I'll find out!) if they'll > eat the fry of other fish or not. > > The guppies have been selectively bred (by living with predators) to be > almost impossible to catch, so I'm kind of stuck with them now, short of > removing all my plants and emptying the tanks. The juveniles can be tricked > with food to come out and be caught but the old females are very very smart > to me and my tricks. You know, they store sperm for 6 months so you can't > even stop them from having babies! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'd like to give you some help here with some of your questions, but your > narrative seems a bit confusing -- unless I missed something previously > posted -- but your last post before your prior one dealing with breeding > your Bettas only discussed how to tell the sexes of the Bettas and about > your "long-fin" female Betta. I do notice you removed the spawning female > to a tank of her own -- good move -- but where does Priya come in to this > picture? What species and sex is Priya? > > > > I guess I'll intersperse some additional questions between yours, as not > knowing exactly what you're referring to, I can't give you an answer unless > I fully understand your statements. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ReBorn_Again" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making a > bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We had > put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to > recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put > Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep > the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I > don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya > would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > > > With your question of "how protective the parents are of their babies," > what parents are you talking about? If you're talking about your male Pearl > Gourami (?), they are like most other Anabantid male parent in that they are > protective of their offspring only up to the point of their hatching. > Beyond much further than that, they will soon loss their protective instinct > and shortly after the fry's free-swimming stage the male may just as soon > decide to eat any of them that he can. Whether to move Priya into his tank > would depend on whether he is protecting a nest of eggs or fry at this time > -- and/or, if Priya is large enough not to be eaten itself even if the male > Pearl Gourami isn't even protecting a nest at this time. If he is > protecting a nest, no other fish should be in with him. Is Priya a female > Pearl Gourami, and a daughter of this male (you haven't explained that here, > but your last sentence above seems to possibly indicate that). If so, then > she's should be safe as long as she's not small enough to be eaten or > harassed, and if he's not guarding a nest. > > > > > > > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of > the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble > nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon she > doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they only > build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where > he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I > expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday they > were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She has > a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or > would it be too soon? > > > > This is where the question of adding Priya to the male Pearl Gourami's > tank becomes quite "ify," if as you suggest, he and a female mate may have > just spawned -- even though you're not really sure. If the female mate is > no longer looking as though she's fat with eggs, the odds are they have > spawned, especially since she is now being chased away from the spawning > site and in a very rough manner. If he hasn't yet built a nest though -- as > you seem to indicate, but leave questionable -- or if he was/is just > starting to build the nest, they may well not have spawned yet if she still > appears at least somewhat fat. > > > > A few questions here would be; how long has the male been in this tank? > How long has he been building his nest? How long has the female been in > this tank with him? How were they behaving during the time they've both > been set up in this tank? Are you sure the female was ripe with eggs before > you removed her? Since you're not sure of many things here, and since he's > aggressive with his mate, this would not be a good time to add Priya. > > Observe what happens within the next two days and see if in fact any > prospective fry hatch in his nest -- which will be seen as very tiny slivers > of tails vibrating in the nest, and his retrieval of them as they drop out > of the nest. If after several days you do not see any free-swimming fry, > you'll know they have not spawned. > > > > Before adding the female (mate) back to his tank, condition her up well > first, with the best foods you can offer her, before placing her back with > the male. At this time his nest should be well formed. I don't know what > size tank you're using, but I've always found the best approach was to use a > clear divider, having her on one side and him on the other, since having her > in view will keep his interest in nest building up -- and you'll see a > change in her behavior of wanting to get to the male's side of the tank when > she's ready to spawn. > > > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby > bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of > snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > > > Who are "they"? Are you talking about the pair of Pearl Gourami's here? > You're not very clear. If so, as I previously stated -- if you intend to > breed and RAISE any Peaerl Gouramis, they should ideally have NO other > tankmates, except for snails. All other fish, besides the female Pearl > Gourami (if she's ready to spawn) will be in danger of attack, and/or, these > other fish (except for the baby Bristlenose) including the female Betta and > Endler's Livebearers will try to eat any eggs or fry that they can. The > Kuh;i Loaches may be too busy burrowing in the gravel to even notice, but > still, the fry could be in danger long-term as they're being raised. > > > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how > gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've heard > the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when > spawning. > > > > Yes, Pearl Gourami's are about the least aggressive of any of them. You > may want to get a good book on them if you're looking for more in-depth info > on breeding them. Ray > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49490	From: Ray	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

\\Steve//, You're going back a few years < g >; the Stones brought "Honky Tonk Women" out in 1969, and Grace Slick wrote and first recorded "White Rabbit" (as a single) when she was with The Great Society even a few years before that (in 1966), before she joined Jefferson Airplane in '67. She then included it on an album of theirs (Jefferson Airplane) that year. I brought up aggression in these gourami's as being equated with smaller tanks, only as a possibility in your scenario with the 5 1/2 gallon tank, not actually knowing where you were going with it. Wasn't saying necessarily that they were aggressive. I'm not refuting what you've experienced with these fish, as you obviously saw what you saw. But I am questioning these fishes' reputation as a whole and am starting to think they're getting a bad rap. My experiences with these species goes back even further, during the decade of the 1950's into the early '60's, when my observations never saw anything in these fishes to believe they would behave aggressively. While, as I said, I read occasional reports of this aggression more recently, I also hear reports from hobbyists I know personally in which they describe the fish as getting along with the rest of their stock famously, and without incident. With your observations, I'm now leaning strongly towards that possibility I brought up about their personalities and demeanor varying from individual to individual, and have to wonder which behavior is more the norm (even if they might be capable of showing aggression). Thanks for bring back some musical memories -- "oldies but goodies", though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Though I first observed this behavior in a 5 1/2 gallon tank way back when > "Honky Tonk Women" was a hit, Grace Slick was singing about a White Rabbit > (which is obviously referenced when Neo is told to follow the white rabbit) > and the druggies were grooving on "Several Species of Small Furry Animals > Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict", the behavior held > true in larger tanks as well one I had gotten out of school and was able to > devote more room to fishkeeping. In a relatively bare tank with few hiding > spots, dwarf gouramis were very timid. In a similar tank with lots of cover > to dive into, they had completely changed personalities and often became the > kings of the tank. > > Since then, I have noted similar personality changes in other supposedly > peaceful gouramis as well, though I never did do much work with pearls. > > You seem to be equating crowding with aggression, and I did not note that, > which is often a typical scenario, with the dwarfs in a small tank with > other fish. I probably would have kept honeys, if I could have found them, > as they are a smaller fish. > > As for the properly housed, many gouramis are found in areas of slow moving > waters, including swamps, with plants. Properly housed is recreating their > natural environment. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > > > \\Steve//, I'm not very sure (I tend to doubt) that the "peaceful" gourami > is a myth, although I will eagerly admit that lately I see reports of > aggression of even from what were notoriously extremely peaceful gourami's, > even the Dwarf (Colisa lalia) Gourami. Perhaps this is due to some recent > genetic factor being accidentally established in them as they're bred in the > Far East. > > When I first started reading of this behavior on this and other lists, in > this species a couple of years ago, I found it very hard to believe -- and > still do, as any kind of typical behavior in this fish. Pearl Gourami's > are, and have been know for "eons" in the hobby, to be nearly equally as > peaceful. When breeding both of these Anabantids during those many years I > was also breeding Bettas, I've never observed any sort of aggression in > either of these two species. > > I don't really know what you mean by these species needing to be "properly > housed," but perhaps a smaller than adequate tank may be able to lead to > some aggression when there's no room for any kind of territoriality to > exist. If this is your meaning of their needing proper housing, in that > they should not be kept in any numbers in small 5 gallon tanks, I fully > agree with you, as you would probably even get on your wife's nerves if > having to live together in a closet < g >, although I'm not even sure if > you're referring to the size tank. A bare tank is asking for trouble almost > even with all but the mildest of fish, as all's they'd have to focus on all > day would be each other -- especially so in a small tank where they can't > get out of each others' face. > > For any kind of a more tranquil setting, even lending to less potential > aggression from any fish having the possibility to display it, a planted > tank goes a long ways in encouraging more peaceful behavior in the majority > of our aquarium fishes. While there's no need for a jungle of plants, an > average setting of several plants in the aquascape is adequate. I used to > breed my Dwarf Gourami's in 10 gallon tanks (and Pearl Gourami's in 15 > gallon tanks), with several types of plants -- including some that could be > used by them, as being essential to nest building of these species -- and > which they'd bite off as needed; the bunch plants (Cabomba and Myriophyllum) > being so used. While I've bred them for years -- those days one could > readily find females being sold in the LFS along with the males -- I can't > say that I ever encountered aggressive behavior in these species, which all > the more puzzled me as I started reading of this more deviant (in my > estimation) conduct the past few years. > > As with many more advanced fishes though, and as is typically seen among > Cichlids, individual behavior can vary immensely within the confines of that > species' known behavior, and/or from the normal behavior of the average fish > of the species -- and this can include gourami's as being that diverse in > their conduct and mannerisms towards their conspecifics. I offer that this > more aggressive behavior, if it does occur in these gourami's, is a result > of atypical (not characteristic) demeanor -- perhaps as being incidental > with the genetics of the imported populations. I'd have to offer too, that > the smaller (dwarf) Honey Gourami -- Colisa Chunna -- is not in my > estimation seen to be aggressive either. We do know that others (Blue > Gourami's, as an example) of the clan can be absolute terrors though. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Yet another bit by the "peaceful" gourami myth. Very few gouramis are > > actually peaceful, and those are ones you do not often see in the trade. > The > > "saving grace", if you want to call it that, is that their aggression is > > mostly directed at conspecifics (those of the same species). Only > > occasionally do they do more than just chase other species. > > > > If the gouramis are not properly housed, they will have, generally, a less > > aggressive personality, thus, lending credence to this myth. This > revelation > > came to me mumblety-mumble years ago when I was transitioning from high > > school into college. While in school, I could not keep anything but a > small > > tank in my prison cell sized room at school, so I maintained a small 5 1/2 > > gallon tank at school. (I got my large tank fix at home on various > weekends > > that were maintained by my father.) This tank came along with me to > college. > > The residents were a pair of dwarf gouramis, a few zebra fish and some > sort > > of small scavenger fish that I do not recall at the moment. > > > > My thoughts went something like this. I couldn't have a bare tank, and > rock > > work would take up too much room, but I had to do something to protect the > > gouramis from the wild swimming of the zebras. Flashing into my head came > > the idea of plants. I stuffed the tank with live plants, leaving a > swimming > > area for the fish to swim unimpeded. It took me a bit to get the mixture > of > > plants correct, growing, but not too fast, and stuff that may, possibly, > not > > outgrow the tank. I don't remember the mix, since those notes have long > been > > lost, but it worked. > > > > What a change overcame my little dwarfs. At first, I hardly saw them, > > suiting their advertised general timid behavior, and how they acted in a > > fairly bare tank. When the plants had been finalized, a great change came > > over them. When the male came out, he would chase everyone back into the > > plants and have the whole swimming area to himself. When the female came > > out, she was a bit more tolerant of the other fish, but not by much. When > > they both came out, the male would do the chasing, and also include the > > female in his targets. > > > > I never did see a successful spawn by them in that tank, but I really did > > not expect to for the size of the tank and the number of fish in it. It > was > > a good tank, lasting me all through college and twice yearly trips home at > > Christmas (3-4 weeks) and for the summer. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of ReBorn_Again > > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:55 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > > > Ray, > > > > Thanks for trying to help. > > > > Priya is an adult female betta fish. > > > > I got the gouramis to be part of an attractive planted community tank, > > having read that they are shy and gentle fish. The male is a bit pushy > with > > the others but hasn't seemed to have harmed any of them, with the > exception > > of the female pearl gourami who is now missing scales (two of them). She > > doesn't appear to be afraid of him, but is staying away from his nest, > which > > I only noticed yesterday afternoon among the floating duckweed. It looks > > like random bubbles all over the place, with a small area that is more > solid > > bubbles. > > > > I've only had the female gourami for about 2 weeks; I've had the male for > > only 3 weeks. I thought he was only a juvenile and thought it would be > neat > > to breed them when they were bigger, which I thought would be months from > > now. From the beginning he has tried to dominate her, often escorting her > > to one corner where he seems to want her to stay. He colored up to very > > bright colors - deep orange on his belly and blue on his tail (I thought > it > > was the good food! - LOL) The female never seemed that afraid of him and > > would come out of her corner whenever he wasn't looking and swim around. > > The day before this all happened with him building the nest I found, they > > were acting scared and every time I looked they were both hiding on the > > bottom. They didn't even come out to eat that day. I hadn't cleaned the > > tank or done anything unusual. > > > > The one female Endler's guppy in that tank is huge and gives birth to > around > > 50+ fry at a time. I can't seem to catch her without risking destroying > my > > tank but I want fish in there that will eat most of her fry since it's > too > > many for me to raise, so that was the job of the gouramis and the betta. > > That's how the female betta (Kalpana) got accidentally conditioned so she > > was really full of eggs, so we bred her with one of our males (the one > with > > the best fins, per the advice here). > > > > The gourami tank is a heavily planted 20-gallon tank. > > > > Are you saying that pearl gourami should only be kept separated males from > > females unless you want them to breed? A lot of sources say to keep them > in > > groups of 5. > > > > If I do nothing, will the fry just get eaten, by the male gourami and the > > other fish? If/when I see tails, should I move the whole nest to a > rearing > > tank? > > > > If I leave the male and female together will they continue to spawn > > frequently so that no other fish can live with them? > > > > The guppies are a strange case. I have 7 in with a pair of spawning > > convicts and tho the pair chases the remaining convict and forces him into > > hiding, they leave the guppies alone! I have guppies in with my Jack > > Dempsey fry, too; the JD's are 1 1/4 inches and they leave the guppies > alone > > (once the JD's realized they aren't fast enough to eat them). None of my > > guppies eat their own babies, and I wonder (guess I'll find out!) if > they'll > > eat the fry of other fish or not. > > > > The guppies have been selectively bred (by living with predators) to be > > almost impossible to catch, so I'm kind of stuck with them now, short of > > removing all my plants and emptying the tanks. The juveniles can be > tricked > > with food to come out and be caught but the old females are very very > smart > > to me and my tricks. You know, they store sperm for 6 months so you can't > > even stop them from having babies! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to give you some help here with some of your questions, but > your > > narrative seems a bit confusing -- unless I missed something previously > > posted -- but your last post before your prior one dealing with breeding > > your Bettas only discussed how to tell the sexes of the Bettas and about > > your "long-fin" female Betta. I do notice you removed the spawning female > > to a tank of her own -- good move -- but where does Priya come in to this > > picture? What species and sex is Priya? > > > > > > I guess I'll intersperse some additional questions between yours, as not > > knowing exactly what you're referring to, I can't give you an answer > unless > > I fully understand your statements. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ReBorn_Again" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making > a > > bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We > had > > put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to > > recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put > > Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep > > the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I > > don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya > > would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > > > > > With your question of "how protective the parents are of their babies," > > what parents are you talking about? If you're talking about your male > Pearl > > Gourami (?), they are like most other Anabantid male parent in that they > are > > protective of their offspring only up to the point of their hatching. > > Beyond much further than that, they will soon loss their protective > instinct > > and shortly after the fry's free-swimming stage the male may just as soon > > decide to eat any of them that he can. Whether to move Priya into his > tank > > would depend on whether he is protecting a nest of eggs or fry at this > time > > -- and/or, if Priya is large enough not to be eaten itself even if the > male > > Pearl Gourami isn't even protecting a nest at this time. If he is > > protecting a nest, no other fish should be in with him. Is Priya a female > > Pearl Gourami, and a daughter of this male (you haven't explained that > here, > > but your last sentence above seems to possibly indicate that). If so, > then > > she's should be safe as long as she's not small enough to be eaten or > > harassed, and if he's not guarding a nest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of > > the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble > > nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon > she > > doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they > only > > build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where > > he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I > > expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday > they > > were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She > has > > a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or > > would it be too soon? > > > > > > This is where the question of adding Priya to the male Pearl Gourami's > > tank becomes quite "ify," if as you suggest, he and a female mate may have > > just spawned -- even though you're not really sure. If the female mate is > > no longer looking as though she's fat with eggs, the odds are they have > > spawned, especially since she is now being chased away from the spawning > > site and in a very rough manner. If he hasn't yet built a nest though -- > as > > you seem to indicate, but leave questionable -- or if he was/is just > > starting to build the nest, they may well not have spawned yet if she > still > > appears at least somewhat fat. > > > > > > A few questions here would be; how long has the male been in this tank? > > How long has he been building his nest? How long has the female been in > > this tank with him? How were they behaving during the time they've both > > been set up in this tank? Are you sure the female was ripe with eggs > before > > you removed her? Since you're not sure of many things here, and since > he's > > aggressive with his mate, this would not be a good time to add Priya. > > > Observe what happens within the next two days and see if in fact any > > prospective fry hatch in his nest -- which will be seen as very tiny > slivers > > of tails vibrating in the nest, and his retrieval of them as they drop out > > of the nest. If after several days you do not see any free-swimming fry, > > you'll know they have not spawned. > > > > > > Before adding the female (mate) back to his tank, condition her up well > > first, with the best foods you can offer her, before placing her back with > > the male. At this time his nest should be well formed. I don't know what > > size tank you're using, but I've always found the best approach was to use > a > > clear divider, having her on one side and him on the other, since having > her > > in view will keep his interest in nest building up -- and you'll see a > > change in her behavior of wanting to get to the male's side of the tank > when > > she's ready to spawn. > > > > > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby > > bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of > > snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > > > > > Who are "they"? Are you talking about the pair of Pearl Gourami's here? > > You're not very clear. If so, as I previously stated -- if you intend to > > breed and RAISE any Peaerl Gouramis, they should ideally have NO other > > tankmates, except for snails. All other fish, besides the female Pearl > > Gourami (if she's ready to spawn) will be in danger of attack, and/or, > these > > other fish (except for the baby Bristlenose) including the female Betta > and > > Endler's Livebearers will try to eat any eggs or fry that they can. The > > Kuh;i Loaches may be too busy burrowing in the gravel to even notice, but > > still, the fry could be in danger long-term as they're being raised. > > > > > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how > > gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've > heard > > the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when > > spawning. > > > > > > Yes, Pearl Gourami's are about the least aggressive of any of them. You > > may want to get a good book on them if you're looking for more in-depth > info > > on breeding them. Ray > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49491	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

Ray, Yes, that is my experience, and, while I never did a rigorously controlled "scientific" experiment along those lines, it seemed to hold fairly consistently along those lines. Remember, I said the tanks were heavily planted. This means that the fish could hide and not be seen beyond the outer plants. If they were in a tank where they could not hide, a sparsely planted tank, say, they would be their "normal" timid selves that most people will see when kept in a sparsely decorated tank. I noticed that you skipped over the Pink Floyd reference, perhaps a bit too obscure for many. I can through in a couple of other songs that were quite popular with certain segments of the population, like "Heroin" and "Two Hangmen" neither of which received much in the way of national airplay, though one may be recognizable within the Midwest as it was a regional hit. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 12:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? \\Steve//, You're going back a few years < g >; the Stones brought "Honky Tonk Women" out in 1969, and Grace Slick wrote and first recorded "White Rabbit" (as a single) when she was with The Great Society even a few years before that (in 1966), before she joined Jefferson Airplane in '67. She then included it on an album of theirs (Jefferson Airplane) that year. I brought up aggression in these gourami's as being equated with smaller tanks, only as a possibility in your scenario with the 5 1/2 gallon tank, not actually knowing where you were going with it. Wasn't saying necessarily that they were aggressive. I'm not refuting what you've experienced with these fish, as you obviously saw what you saw. But I am questioning these fishes' reputation as a whole and am starting to think they're getting a bad rap. My experiences with these species goes back even further, during the decade of the 1950's into the early '60's, when my observations never saw anything in these fishes to believe they would behave aggressively. While, as I said, I read occasional reports of this aggression more recently, I also hear reports from hobbyists I know personally in which they describe the fish as getting along with the rest of their stock famously, and without incident. With your observations, I'm now leaning strongly towards that possibility I brought up about their personalities and demeanor varying from individual to individual, and have to wonder which behavior is more the norm (even if they might be capable of showing aggression). Thanks for bring back some musical memories -- "oldies but goodies", though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Though I first observed this behavior in a 5 1/2 gallon tank way back when > "Honky Tonk Women" was a hit, Grace Slick was singing about a White Rabbit > (which is obviously referenced when Neo is told to follow the white rabbit) > and the druggies were grooving on "Several Species of Small Furry Animals > Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict", the behavior held > true in larger tanks as well one I had gotten out of school and was able to > devote more room to fishkeeping. In a relatively bare tank with few hiding > spots, dwarf gouramis were very timid. In a similar tank with lots of cover > to dive into, they had completely changed personalities and often became the > kings of the tank. > > Since then, I have noted similar personality changes in other supposedly > peaceful gouramis as well, though I never did do much work with pearls. > > You seem to be equating crowding with aggression, and I did not note that, > which is often a typical scenario, with the dwarfs in a small tank with > other fish. I probably would have kept honeys, if I could have found them, > as they are a smaller fish. > > As for the properly housed, many gouramis are found in areas of slow moving > waters, including swamps, with plants. Properly housed is recreating their > natural environment. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > > > \\Steve//, I'm not very sure (I tend to doubt) that the "peaceful" gourami > is a myth, although I will eagerly admit that lately I see reports of > aggression of even from what were notoriously extremely peaceful gourami's, > even the Dwarf (Colisa lalia) Gourami. Perhaps this is due to some recent > genetic factor being accidentally established in them as they're bred in the > Far East. > > When I first started reading of this behavior on this and other lists, in > this species a couple of years ago, I found it very hard to believe -- and > still do, as any kind of typical behavior in this fish. Pearl Gourami's > are, and have been know for "eons" in the hobby, to be nearly equally as > peaceful. When breeding both of these Anabantids during those many years I > was also breeding Bettas, I've never observed any sort of aggression in > either of these two species. > > I don't really know what you mean by these species needing to be "properly > housed," but perhaps a smaller than adequate tank may be able to lead to > some aggression when there's no room for any kind of territoriality to > exist. If this is your meaning of their needing proper housing, in that > they should not be kept in any numbers in small 5 gallon tanks, I fully > agree with you, as you would probably even get on your wife's nerves if > having to live together in a closet < g >, although I'm not even sure if > you're referring to the size tank. A bare tank is asking for trouble almost > even with all but the mildest of fish, as all's they'd have to focus on all > day would be each other -- especially so in a small tank where they can't > get out of each others' face. > > For any kind of a more tranquil setting, even lending to less potential > aggression from any fish having the possibility to display it, a planted > tank goes a long ways in encouraging more peaceful behavior in the majority > of our aquarium fishes. While there's no need for a jungle of plants, an > average setting of several plants in the aquascape is adequate. I used to > breed my Dwarf Gourami's in 10 gallon tanks (and Pearl Gourami's in 15 > gallon tanks), with several types of plants -- including some that could be > used by them, as being essential to nest building of these species -- and > which they'd bite off as needed; the bunch plants (Cabomba and Myriophyllum) > being so used. While I've bred them for years -- those days one could > readily find females being sold in the LFS along with the males -- I can't > say that I ever encountered aggressive behavior in these species, which all > the more puzzled me as I started reading of this more deviant (in my > estimation) conduct the past few years. > > As with many more advanced fishes though, and as is typically seen among > Cichlids, individual behavior can vary immensely within the confines of that > species' known behavior, and/or from the normal behavior of the average fish > of the species -- and this can include gourami's as being that diverse in > their conduct and mannerisms towards their conspecifics. I offer that this > more aggressive behavior, if it does occur in these gourami's, is a result > of atypical (not characteristic) demeanor -- perhaps as being incidental > with the genetics of the imported populations. I'd have to offer too, that > the smaller (dwarf) Honey Gourami -- Colisa Chunna -- is not in my > estimation seen to be aggressive either. We do know that others (Blue > Gourami's, as an example) of the clan can be absolute terrors though. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Yet another bit by the "peaceful" gourami myth. Very few gouramis are > > actually peaceful, and those are ones you do not often see in the trade. > The > > "saving grace", if you want to call it that, is that their aggression is > > mostly directed at conspecifics (those of the same species). Only > > occasionally do they do more than just chase other species. > > > > If the gouramis are not properly housed, they will have, generally, a less > > aggressive personality, thus, lending credence to this myth. This > revelation > > came to me mumblety-mumble years ago when I was transitioning from high > > school into college. While in school, I could not keep anything but a > small > > tank in my prison cell sized room at school, so I maintained a small 5 1/2 > > gallon tank at school. (I got my large tank fix at home on various > weekends > > that were maintained by my father.) This tank came along with me to > college. > > The residents were a pair of dwarf gouramis, a few zebra fish and some > sort > > of small scavenger fish that I do not recall at the moment. > > > > My thoughts went something like this. I couldn't have a bare tank, and > rock > > work would take up too much room, but I had to do something to protect the > > gouramis from the wild swimming of the zebras. Flashing into my head came > > the idea of plants. I stuffed the tank with live plants, leaving a > swimming > > area for the fish to swim unimpeded. It took me a bit to get the mixture > of > > plants correct, growing, but not too fast, and stuff that may, possibly, > not > > outgrow the tank. I don't remember the mix, since those notes have long > been > > lost, but it worked. > > > > What a change overcame my little dwarfs. At first, I hardly saw them, > > suiting their advertised general timid behavior, and how they acted in a > > fairly bare tank. When the plants had been finalized, a great change came > > over them. When the male came out, he would chase everyone back into the > > plants and have the whole swimming area to himself. When the female came > > out, she was a bit more tolerant of the other fish, but not by much. When > > they both came out, the male would do the chasing, and also include the > > female in his targets. > > > > I never did see a successful spawn by them in that tank, but I really did > > not expect to for the size of the tank and the number of fish in it. It > was > > a good tank, lasting me all through college and twice yearly trips home at > > Christmas (3-4 weeks) and for the summer. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -------------------------<snip>--------------------

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49492	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Very cute! Congrats on the babies. Can I ask a question, how do you do so well with your plants. I bought a light that is in the spectrum for plants and for some reason I just have no luck with them, do you use CO2? Jennifer ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 9:00:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be more in there somewhere. I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have more babies that survive the next time around. I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of one of the babies. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49493	From: Ray	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

\\Steve//, Interesting! While I can't say that I had any of my gourami tanks heavily planted, I have had both the Dwarf Gourami and the Pearl Gourami in community settings at various time, with fairly moderate aquascaping of plants -- and still, without incident even among conspecifics. Seems the jungle planting would then tend to bring out their aggressive nature, from what you're saying. One needs only to avoid planting very heavily then, to avoid their Dr Jekyl side, I take it. Since you mention Pink Floyd, I did certainly enjoy them. Most memorable was their "Dark Side of the Moon" which came out in 1973 (still have the album -- vinyl of course). Who can forget their "Money" ?, and then there was "The Wall," "On the Run" and "Wish You Were Here." Another group I enjoyed from back then was Lynyrd Skynyrd (I'm sure Lenny must have enjoyed them!). I particularly liked their (Sweet Home Alabama" but then, who wouldn't? Then, there was "I Ain't the One," "Free Birds" and "Double Trouble," etc. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Yes, that is my experience, and, while I never did a rigorously controlled > "scientific" experiment along those lines, it seemed to hold fairly > consistently along those lines. Remember, I said the tanks were heavily > planted. This means that the fish could hide and not be seen beyond the > outer plants. If they were in a tank where they could not hide, a sparsely > planted tank, say, they would be their "normal" timid selves that most > people will see when kept in a sparsely decorated tank. > > I noticed that you skipped over the Pink Floyd reference, perhaps a bit too > obscure for many. I can through in a couple of other songs that were quite > popular with certain segments of the population, like "Heroin" and "Two > Hangmen" neither of which received much in the way of national airplay, > though one may be recognizable within the Midwest as it was a regional hit. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 12:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > > > \\Steve//, You're going back a few years < g >; the Stones brought "Honky > Tonk Women" out in 1969, and Grace Slick wrote and first recorded "White > Rabbit" (as a single) when she was with The Great Society even a few years > before that (in 1966), before she joined Jefferson Airplane in '67. She > then included it on an album of theirs (Jefferson Airplane) that year. > > I brought up aggression in these gourami's as being equated with smaller > tanks, only as a possibility in your scenario with the 5 1/2 gallon tank, > not actually knowing where you were going with it. Wasn't saying > necessarily that they were aggressive. > > I'm not refuting what you've experienced with these fish, as you obviously > saw what you saw. But I am questioning these fishes' reputation as a whole > and am starting to think they're getting a bad rap. My experiences with > these species goes back even further, during the decade of the 1950's into > the early '60's, when my observations never saw anything in these fishes to > believe they would behave aggressively. While, as I said, I read occasional > reports of this aggression more recently, I also hear reports from hobbyists > I know personally in which they describe the fish as getting along with the > rest of their stock famously, and without incident. > > With your observations, I'm now leaning strongly towards that possibility I > brought up about their personalities and demeanor varying from individual to > individual, and have to wonder which behavior is more the norm (even if they > might be capable of showing aggression). > > Thanks for bring back some musical memories -- "oldies but goodies", though. > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > Though I first observed this behavior in a 5 1/2 gallon tank way back when > > "Honky Tonk Women" was a hit, Grace Slick was singing about a White Rabbit > > (which is obviously referenced when Neo is told to follow the white > rabbit) > > and the druggies were grooving on "Several Species of Small Furry Animals > > Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict", the behavior held > > true in larger tanks as well one I had gotten out of school and was able > to > > devote more room to fishkeeping. In a relatively bare tank with few hiding > > spots, dwarf gouramis were very timid. In a similar tank with lots of > cover > > to dive into, they had completely changed personalities and often became > the > > kings of the tank. > > > > Since then, I have noted similar personality changes in other supposedly > > peaceful gouramis as well, though I never did do much work with pearls. > > > > You seem to be equating crowding with aggression, and I did not note that, > > which is often a typical scenario, with the dwarfs in a small tank with > > other fish. I probably would have kept honeys, if I could have found them, > > as they are a smaller fish. > > > > As for the properly housed, many gouramis are found in areas of slow > moving > > waters, including swamps, with plants. Properly housed is recreating their > > natural environment. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Ray > > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:29 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > > > > > > > \\Steve//, I'm not very sure (I tend to doubt) that the "peaceful" > gourami > > is a myth, although I will eagerly admit that lately I see reports of > > aggression of even from what were notoriously extremely peaceful > gourami's, > > even the Dwarf (Colisa lalia) Gourami. Perhaps this is due to some recent > > genetic factor being accidentally established in them as they're bred in > the > > Far East. > > > > When I first started reading of this behavior on this and other lists, in > > this species a couple of years ago, I found it very hard to believe -- and > > still do, as any kind of typical behavior in this fish. Pearl Gourami's > > are, and have been know for "eons" in the hobby, to be nearly equally as > > peaceful. When breeding both of these Anabantids during those many years > I > > was also breeding Bettas, I've never observed any sort of aggression in > > either of these two species. > > > > I don't really know what you mean by these species needing to be "properly > > housed," but perhaps a smaller than adequate tank may be able to lead to > > some aggression when there's no room for any kind of territoriality to > > exist. If this is your meaning of their needing proper housing, in that > > they should not be kept in any numbers in small 5 gallon tanks, I fully > > agree with you, as you would probably even get on your wife's nerves if > > having to live together in a closet < g >, although I'm not even sure if > > you're referring to the size tank. A bare tank is asking for trouble > almost > > even with all but the mildest of fish, as all's they'd have to focus on > all > > day would be each other -- especially so in a small tank where they can't > > get out of each others' face. > > > > For any kind of a more tranquil setting, even lending to less potential > > aggression from any fish having the possibility to display it, a planted > > tank goes a long ways in encouraging more peaceful behavior in the > majority > > of our aquarium fishes. While there's no need for a jungle of plants, an > > average setting of several plants in the aquascape is adequate. I used to > > breed my Dwarf Gourami's in 10 gallon tanks (and Pearl Gourami's in 15 > > gallon tanks), with several types of plants -- including some that could > be > > used by them, as being essential to nest building of these species -- and > > which they'd bite off as needed; the bunch plants (Cabomba and > Myriophyllum) > > being so used. While I've bred them for years -- those days one could > > readily find females being sold in the LFS along with the males -- I can't > > say that I ever encountered aggressive behavior in these species, which > all > > the more puzzled me as I started reading of this more deviant (in my > > estimation) conduct the past few years. > > > > As with many more advanced fishes though, and as is typically seen among > > Cichlids, individual behavior can vary immensely within the confines of > that > > species' known behavior, and/or from the normal behavior of the average > fish > > of the species -- and this can include gourami's as being that diverse in > > their conduct and mannerisms towards their conspecifics. I offer that > this > > more aggressive behavior, if it does occur in these gourami's, is a result > > of atypical (not characteristic) demeanor -- perhaps as being incidental > > with the genetics of the imported populations. I'd have to offer too, > that > > the smaller (dwarf) Honey Gourami -- Colisa Chunna -- is not in my > > estimation seen to be aggressive either. We do know that others (Blue > > Gourami's, as an example) of the clan can be absolute terrors though. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > > > Yet another bit by the "peaceful" gourami myth. Very few gouramis are > > > actually peaceful, and those are ones you do not often see in the trade. > > The > > > "saving grace", if you want to call it that, is that their aggression is > > > mostly directed at conspecifics (those of the same species). Only > > > occasionally do they do more than just chase other species. > > > > > > If the gouramis are not properly housed, they will have, generally, a > less > > > aggressive personality, thus, lending credence to this myth. This > > revelation > > > came to me mumblety-mumble years ago when I was transitioning from high > > > school into college. While in school, I could not keep anything but a > > small > > > tank in my prison cell sized room at school, so I maintained a small 5 > 1/2 > > > gallon tank at school. (I got my large tank fix at home on various > > weekends > > > that were maintained by my father.) This tank came along with me to > > college. > > > The residents were a pair of dwarf gouramis, a few zebra fish and some > > sort > > > of small scavenger fish that I do not recall at the moment. > > > > > > My thoughts went something like this. I couldn't have a bare tank, and > > rock > > > work would take up too much room, but I had to do something to protect > the > > > gouramis from the wild swimming of the zebras. Flashing into my head > came > > > the idea of plants. I stuffed the tank with live plants, leaving a > > swimming > > > area for the fish to swim unimpeded. It took me a bit to get the mixture > > of > > > plants correct, growing, but not too fast, and stuff that may, possibly, > > not > > > outgrow the tank. I don't remember the mix, since those notes have long > > been > > > lost, but it worked. > > > > > > What a change overcame my little dwarfs. At first, I hardly saw them, > > > suiting their advertised general timid behavior, and how they acted in a > > > fairly bare tank. When the plants had been finalized, a great change > came > > > over them. When the male came out, he would chase everyone back into the > > > plants and have the whole swimming area to himself. When the female came > > > out, she was a bit more tolerant of the other fish, but not by much. > When > > > they both came out, the male would do the chasing, and also include the > > > female in his targets. > > > > > > I never did see a successful spawn by them in that tank, but I really > did > > > not expect to for the size of the tank and the number of fish in it. It > > was > > > a good tank, lasting me all through college and twice yearly trips home > at > > > Christmas (3-4 weeks) and for the summer. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -------------------------<snip>-------------------- >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49494	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

I have Walstad setup tanks, which means they have organic soil under the gravel (about an inch and a half of soil and about the same depth of gravel), then I plant the tank heavily and add light. Easy setup, it just limits how well you can gravel vacuum when you clean the tank (as you'll suck up the soil if you're not careful). If you're interested in this setup yourself I can give you a link with instructions on how to setup a Walstad tank. Amber On 11/6/2010 12:33 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > > Very cute! Congrats on the babies. Can I ask a question, how do you do > so well > with your plants. I bought a light that is in the spectrum for plants > and for > some reason I just have no luck with them, do you use CO2? > Jennifer > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 9:00:57 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after > feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger > than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW > bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any > others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be > more in there somewhere. > I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and > a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his > nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone > in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have > more babies that survive the next time around. > I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of > one of the babies. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49495	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Oh my yes please share! What lighting do you use? I am researching to set up my 55 gallon and want it planted. Jennifer ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 4:29:00 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies I have Walstad setup tanks, which means they have organic soil under the gravel (about an inch and a half of soil and about the same depth of gravel), then I plant the tank heavily and add light. Easy setup, it just limits how well you can gravel vacuum when you clean the tank (as you'll suck up the soil if you're not careful). If you're interested in this setup yourself I can give you a link with instructions on how to setup a Walstad tank. Amber On 11/6/2010 12:33 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > > Very cute! Congrats on the babies. Can I ask a question, how do you do > so well > with your plants. I bought a light that is in the spectrum for plants > and for > some reason I just have no luck with them, do you use CO2? > Jennifer > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 9:00:57 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after > feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger > than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW > bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any > others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be > more in there somewhere. > I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and > a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his > nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone > in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have > more babies that survive the next time around. > I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of > one of the babies. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc >c > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> >> > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49496	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

I use CFL bulbs on most of my tanks, you don't need high lighting for this type of setup though, I use fluorescent bulbs (the setup you get from Wal-Mart if you get their 55 gallon tank setup) on my Angelfish tank, and the plants are doing just fine. So if you don't want to do a lot of work I suggest getting low light plants or at most plants that require medium lighting. High light plants require more co2 than fish provide, and they will require a little more care and work to get the bright red/pink type colors to come out. I tried some high light plants in the past but they dwindled and died without extra co2. I like Walstad setups because you can get nice healthy looking plants but you don't need to do a lot of work to get them (such as co2). Here is a link to step by step instructions on setting up a Walstad tank. One key thing to remember is let the soil air out and breath, this way it will naturally outgass any excess ammonia, etc. Before putting it in the tank, adding water/gravel. Also don't buy all the fish the same day you do this setup, as sometimes the soil will add a lot of tannins to the water column and make it look cloudy/brown. Sometimes it will take a few hours or even a day or two to clean out the brown tint to the water with a good filter going. Sometimes your soil will be cleaner too and might not cloud up the water, just depends. I used Black Gold soil for my tanks and it didn't cloud up the water too much. Amber On 11/6/2010 1:32 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > > Oh my yes please share! What lighting do you use? I am researching to > set up my > 55 gallon and want it planted. > Jennifer > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 4:29:00 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > I have Walstad setup tanks, which means they have organic soil under the > gravel (about an inch and a half of soil and about the same depth of > gravel), then I plant the tank heavily and add light. Easy setup, it > just limits how well you can gravel vacuum when you clean the tank (as > you'll suck up the soil if you're not careful). If you're interested in > this setup yourself I can give you a link with instructions on how to > setup a Walstad tank. > > Amber > > On 11/6/2010 12:33 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > > > > Very cute! Congrats on the babies. Can I ask a question, how do you do > > so well > > with your plants. I bought a light that is in the spectrum for plants > > and for > > some reason I just have no luck with them, do you use CO2? > > Jennifer > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 9:00:57 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > > > So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after > > feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger > > than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW > > bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any > > others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be > > more in there somewhere. > > I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and > > a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his > > nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone > > in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have > > more babies that survive the next time around. > > I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of > > one of the babies. > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> > >c > > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc>> > >> > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49497	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Lol, oops I forgot to include the link for instructions I think. http://thegab.org/Plants/setting-up-a-walstad-natural-planted-tank.html Amber On 11/6/2010 1:32 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > > Oh my yes please share! What lighting do you use? I am researching to > set up my > 55 gallon and want it planted. > Jennifer > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 4:29:00 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > I have Walstad setup tanks, which means they have organic soil under the > gravel (about an inch and a half of soil and about the same depth of > gravel), then I plant the tank heavily and add light. Easy setup, it > just limits how well you can gravel vacuum when you clean the tank (as > you'll suck up the soil if you're not careful). If you're interested in > this setup yourself I can give you a link with instructions on how to > setup a Walstad tank. > > Amber > > On 11/6/2010 12:33 PM, Jennifer Pare wrote: > > > > Very cute! Congrats on the babies. Can I ask a question, how do you do > > so well > > with your plants. I bought a light that is in the spectrum for plants > > and for > > some reason I just have no luck with them, do you use CO2? > > Jennifer > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 9:00:57 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > > > So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after > > feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger > > than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW > > bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any > > others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be > > more in there somewhere. > > I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and > > a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his > > nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone > > in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have > > more babies that survive the next time around. > > I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of > > one of the babies. > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc> > >c > > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc>> > >> > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49498	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: OT: Way OT, Saturday Silly

Thanks, Steve, I got a good giggle out of the video. Amber On 11/6/2010 6:52 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > This is mainly directed to Amber, but I thought most of you might get > a kick > out of it. It was sent to me as an attachment, but I've stuck it on > the web, > since an attachment will not come through with the settings here, so you > need to click on this link to see it: > http://www.landoctor.com/amber/fedexcastaway.wmv > > \\Steve// > > FedEx Answers The Question > > You probably remember the movie "Castaway," where Tom Hanks played a FedEx > employee whose plane crashed and left him stranded for years on a remote > island where he fought the elements to survive and struggled to hold onto > his sanity by talking to volleyball he named " Wilson ." Do you remember > the FedEx box that survived the plane crash, and which Hanks was compelled > to deliver? Did you wonder what was in that FedEx Box? Well, here is a > FedEx commercial that answers the question! Now we know! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49499	From: Bren Linny	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy!now Bren is gonna be a mom too!

after your posting about the baby pleco i saw my lfs had a sale on guppies. I got a pretty couple, but to my delight the female was already pregnant! She is in the last stages of the pregnancy, too, so i check on her everytime i go near the tank. All the years i've kept aquatic pets has not jaded me. It is wonderful to see those tiny balls unfurl and swim for cover during a live birth! I cant wait, i only hope it doesnt happen while i am asleep Bren

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49500	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/6/2010
Subject: Re: Our Growing Betta Families

I picked out a male betta at the LFS today, and another female. The male is very pretty (he has regular long fins, the crowntails were rather sad looking so I didn't get one), this male has a tie dye look to him. He's tri-color. a pinkish red, and it looks almost purple in some lights, a light blue and white, and a darker blue. He has splotches of color all over, very neat looking. I'm waiting for him to calm down and sit still in his bowl before I take a picture of him. The female I got is white body with light blue fins, she looks similar to the females I just recently got, except they have dark red fins with white bodies. I'm putting this female in a different tank than the others, and the male has his own little bowl next to my desk lamp by my computer. I gave him a few plants (a crypt, some floating hornwort and wisteria, and another plant that I have forgotten the name of), most of the little plants are floating for now because they're too small to plant. I left him plenty of surface room to come up for air. He's still busy exploring all the plants. I need to find a little cave or something for him to hide in, if I can find something small enough. Otherwise I'll just plant the plants when they're big enough, that'll give him hiding places too. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49501	From: Majd Nazari	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

________________________________ From: Bren Linny <safirezprincess@...> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 2:04:19 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies congrats on the finbabies Amber.  I am always excited about new life in my tanks or ponds, even baby snails.  Have fun watching them grow.  Do they require any special food when they are babies?  Are they in danger of being eaten? bren On Wed Nov 3rd, 2010 10:00 PM EDT Amber Berglund wrote: >So while watching my new female betta's in my 125 gallon tank (after >feeding them when I got home), I noticed a small pleco (not much bigger >than my guppy fry), on the side of the glass. So apparently I have NEW >bristle nose pleco babies. Looks like it's a brown one, I didn't see any >others, but the tank is so heavily planted that I'm sure there has to be >more in there somewhere. >I have 2 adult females (well older juviniles around 3 inches long), and >a large albino male that's full grown with nice long bristles on his >nose. Apparently he's a good daddy. I don't even having a breeding cone >in the tank, so perhaps I should buy him one and add it, LOL. Might have >more babies that survive the next time around. >I'm uploading photo's as I type, so I'll include a link of a photo of >one of the babies. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1283655335/pic/738704467/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > > >Amber       ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49502	From: haecklers	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Different plants need different levels of light. Research the plants you're wanting before buying them to see if your light will be adequate! Those betta bulbs they sell are usually apongetons, they do well in normal aquarium lighting, as do most crypts, java ferns, and java moss. Vallisneria is another one that can do well in lower light. It looks like tall grass. By "normal light" I mean a one fluorescent bulb hood, the people who are really into planted tanks can get fixtures with 2 or more bulbs to get the higher level of light the more unusual plants need. Two more things to look into are the kind of water they like (soft or hard) and the temperature they prefer - some plants turn brown or melt to mush if you keep them too far from the right temperature. The plants I mentioned above aren't picky about the water, tho crypts do "melt" if their new home has different water than what they were used to, but then they'll grow new leaves again and look great (so don't throw them away!). If you're getting plants, you may want to look into something to keep them clean as well. Nerite snails clean the brown gunk (diatoms) off the plants without eating them. A few other kinds of snails will, too. Or you can go with shrimp or bristlenose catfish to keep them clean. My plants in the shrimp tanks are sparkling clean, but the ones where the shrimp population is lower do get the brown coating after awhile. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have Walstad setup tanks, which means they have organic soil under the > gravel (about an inch and a half of soil and about the same depth of > gravel), then I plant the tank heavily and add light. Easy setup, it > just limits how well you can gravel vacuum when you clean the tank (as > you'll suck up the soil if you're not careful). If you're interested in > this setup yourself I can give you a link with instructions on how to > setup a Walstad tank. > > Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49503	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

I think the biggest problem I have been having with my 40 tall tank is that it's too tall for the light to reach the bottom. I changed the spectrum of the bulb but I'm thinking I may need to increase the wattage? Or introduce a second light maybe? Not sure, it's just outside the range of sunlight form the window (which last time I had a tank set up by the window it got such an aweful algea bloom it killed everything off in the tank). I have lost 3 of the 4 plants in the tank and have one left. I'd have to look it up again, but it turned brown and now has a bunch of different newer shorter blades in the middle so I think it's trying to come back. I currently have one zebra nerite snail in there and am looking into getting more when I switch everyone over to the 55 gallon. My other question is, do I have to do soil under gravel on the bottom or could I just go with a bunch of clay pots filled with plants? Suggestions? Jennifer ________________________________ From: haecklers <haecklers@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 7:57:19 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies Different plants need different levels of light. Research the plants you're wanting before buying them to see if your light will be adequate! Those betta bulbs they sell are usually apongetons, they do well in normal aquarium lighting, as do most crypts, java ferns, and java moss. Vallisneria is another one that can do well in lower light. It looks like tall grass. By "normal light" I mean a one fluorescent bulb hood, the people who are really into planted tanks can get fixtures with 2 or more bulbs to get the higher level of light the more unusual plants need. Two more things to look into are the kind of water they like (soft or hard) and the temperature they prefer - some plants turn brown or melt to mush if you keep them too far from the right temperature. The plants I mentioned above aren't picky about the water, tho crypts do "melt" if their new home has different water than what they were used to, but then they'll grow new leaves again and look great (so don't throw them away!). If you're getting plants, you may want to look into something to keep them clean as well. Nerite snails clean the brown gunk (diatoms) off the plants without eating them. A few other kinds of snails will, too. Or you can go with shrimp or bristlenose catfish to keep them clean. My plants in the shrimp tanks are sparkling clean, but the ones where the shrimp population is lower do get the brown coating after awhile. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have Walstad setup tanks, which means they have organic soil under the > gravel (about an inch and a half of soil and about the same depth of > gravel), then I plant the tank heavily and add light. Easy setup, it > just limits how well you can gravel vacuum when you clean the tank (as > you'll suck up the soil if you're not careful). If you're interested in > this setup yourself I can give you a link with instructions on how to > setup a Walstad tank. > > Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49504	From: Jason	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Discus Eggs

Hello Everyone, I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. Thanks Jay

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49505	From: Ray	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Jay, Is there a reason why you state that your male Discus has failed to fertilize the eggs twice? If it is just that the eggs didn't hatch, this is not necessarily a fault of the male's, in believing he did not fertilize the eggs. What are your water parameters, and in particular, what is your KH and your GH? Do you know what your water's TDS and conductivity is? Discus eggs do not develop properly, most often failing to hatch, if the water is much over 4 dGH (preferably nearer 3 dGh to 3.5 dGH, depending on your TDS -- Total Dissolved Solids; all other salts) with a similarly low KH of low carbonates. Your water needs to be not much more than 90 microseimens of conductivity to enable hatching of the eggs. If your water is not within the above parameters, I'd suggest you get an R/O unit to cut your tap water with it until it's within reach of these numbers -- but slowly, as too fast of a transition can promote osmotic pressure issues in the fish if converted too fast. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@...> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. > > Thanks > Jay >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49506	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Jay, Are you sure you have a male and a female and not two females? Sometimes, if you do have a male and a female, it may take a few times, when they are young, to get the hang of what they are doing. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Discus Eggs Hello Everyone, I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. Thanks Jay

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49507	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

You need a good substrate made for planted tanks. Just plain gravel does not give satisfactory results. A cheap one is Turface, which is made for baseball fields. It's hard to find though, but if you do some research, you should be able to find it. Other options are Aquasoil, Fluorite, and there are more - just do a google search. That will improve your chances of your plants surviving. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 9:10:04 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies I think the biggest problem I have been having with my 40 tall tank is that it's too tall for the light to reach the bottom. I changed the spectrum of the bulb but I'm thinking I may need to increase the wattage? Or introduce a second light maybe? Not sure, it's just outside the range of sunlight form the window (which last time I had a tank set up by the window it got such an aweful algea bloom it killed everything off in the tank). I have lost 3 of the 4 plants in the tank and have one left. I'd have to look it up again, but it turned brown and now has a bunch of different newer shorter blades in the middle so I think it's trying to come back. I currently have one zebra nerite snail in there and am looking into getting more when I switch everyone over to the 55 gallon. My other question is, do I have to do soil under gravel on the bottom or could I just go with a bunch of clay pots filled with plants? Suggestions? Jennifer ________________________________ From: haecklers <haecklers@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 7:57:19 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies Different plants need different levels of light. Research the plants you're wanting before buying them to see if your light will be adequate! Those betta bulbs they sell are usually apongetons, they do well in normal aquarium lighting, as do most crypts, java ferns, and java moss. Vallisneria is another one that can do well in lower light. It looks like tall grass. By "normal light" I mean a one fluorescent bulb hood, the people who are really into planted tanks can get fixtures with 2 or more bulbs to get the higher level of light the more unusual plants need. Two more things to look into are the kind of water they like (soft or hard) and the temperature they prefer - some plants turn brown or melt to mush if you keep them too far from the right temperature. The plants I mentioned above aren't picky about the water, tho crypts do "melt" if their new home has different water than what they were used to, but then they'll grow new leaves again and look great (so don't throw them away!). If you're getting plants, you may want to look into something to keep them clean as well. Nerite snails clean the brown gunk (diatoms) off the plants without eating them. A few other kinds of snails will, too. Or you can go with shrimp or bristlenose catfish to keep them clean. My plants in the shrimp tanks are sparkling clean, but the ones where the shrimp population is lower do get the brown coating after awhile. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have Walstad setup tanks, which means they have organic soil under the > gravel (about an inch and a half of soil and about the same depth of > gravel), then I plant the tank heavily and add light. Easy setup, it > just limits how well you can gravel vacuum when you clean the tank (as > you'll suck up the soil if you're not careful). If you're interested in > this setup yourself I can give you a link with instructions on how to > setup a Walstad tank. > > Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49508	From: Jason	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Ray, I just happened to look and some of the eggs actually have hatched and are wigglers (there about 30 or so)_. The parents had actually moved them to a different part of the filter that I did not notice. Now I need to read up on what to do now. Do I need to feed the wiglers? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Jay, Is there a reason why you state that your male Discus has failed to fertilize the eggs twice? If it is just that the eggs didn't hatch, this is not necessarily a fault of the male's, in believing he did not fertilize the eggs. What are your water parameters, and in particular, what is your KH and your GH? Do you know what your water's TDS and conductivity is? > > Discus eggs do not develop properly, most often failing to hatch, if the water is much over 4 dGH (preferably nearer 3 dGh to 3.5 dGH, depending on your TDS -- Total Dissolved Solids; all other salts) with a similarly low KH of low carbonates. Your water needs to be not much more than 90 microseimens of conductivity to enable hatching of the eggs. > > If your water is not within the above parameters, I'd suggest you get an R/O unit to cut your tap water with it until it's within reach of these numbers -- but slowly, as too fast of a transition can promote osmotic pressure issues in the fish if converted too fast. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@> wrote: > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. > > > > Thanks > > Jay > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49509	From: William M	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Another thing that might be the problem is there might be too much water flow and washing the males sperm away from the eggs before they get fertilized. Is the female putting the eggs near the filter or near an air stone. This might be a problem that can be fixed by making sure that the discus cannot lay the eggs near the filter or air stone. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Jay, Is there a reason why you state that your male Discus has failed to fertilize the eggs twice? If it is just that the eggs didn't hatch, this is not necessarily a fault of the male's, in believing he did not fertilize the eggs. What are your water parameters, and in particular, what is your KH and your GH? Do you know what your water's TDS and conductivity is? > > Discus eggs do not develop properly, most often failing to hatch, if the water is much over 4 dGH (preferably nearer 3 dGh to 3.5 dGH, depending on your TDS -- Total Dissolved Solids; all other salts) with a similarly low KH of low carbonates. Your water needs to be not much more than 90 microseimens of conductivity to enable hatching of the eggs. > > If your water is not within the above parameters, I'd suggest you get an R/O unit to cut your tap water with it until it's within reach of these numbers -- but slowly, as too fast of a transition can promote osmotic pressure issues in the fish if converted too fast. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@> wrote: > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. > > > > Thanks > > Jay > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49510	From: William M	Date: 11/7/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Are they laying the eggs where the water flow is carrying the sperm away from the eggs before the sperm can fertilize the eggs? Such places would be under the filter, near an air bubbler or in the stream of a power head. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Jay, > > Are you sure you have a male and a female and not two females? > > Sometimes, if you do have a male and a female, it may take a few times, when > they are young, to get the hang of what they are doing. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jason > Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 7:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Discus Eggs > > Hello Everyone, > > I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have > failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that > can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. > > Thanks > Jay >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49511	From: haecklers	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

I've used soil from the yard (the lower the humus the better because it tends to rot underwater), and I've read you can use the clay kitty litter. The clay holds minerals and releases them to the plants, it also chelates harmful metals from the water and breaks down some toxic compounds, so would make the tank healthier for the fish. You need to cover it with about an inch of sand to prevent it from clouding the water. But you don't need to buy the expensive sand from the fish store, you can use playsand sold for kids' sandboxes. Just wash it first by spraying it with water and pouring the water off several times until the water stops clouding up. It can take a day or a week for the aquarium water to clear when you do it this way but then you have a good substrate that will last many years. - Renate --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > You need a good substrate made for planted tanks. Just plain gravel does not > give satisfactory results. A cheap one is Turface, which is made for baseball > fields. It's hard to find though, but if you do some research, you should be > able to find it. Other options are Aquasoil, Fluorite, and there are more - > just do a google search. That will improve your chances of your plants > surviving. > > ~ Laurie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49512	From: haecklers	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Wow, that is so cool! The discus feed the babies with their slime coating, so you get to just sit back and enjoy! Congrats on your new "family"! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I just happened to look and some of the eggs actually have hatched and are wigglers (there about 30 or so)_. The parents had actually moved them to a different part of the filter that I did not notice. > > Now I need to read up on what to do now. Do I need to feed the wiglers? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Jay, Is there a reason why you state that your male Discus has failed to fertilize the eggs twice? If it is just that the eggs didn't hatch, this is not necessarily a fault of the male's, in believing he did not fertilize the eggs. What are your water parameters, and in particular, what is your KH and your GH? Do you know what your water's TDS and conductivity is? > > > > Discus eggs do not develop properly, most often failing to hatch, if the water is much over 4 dGH (preferably nearer 3 dGh to 3.5 dGH, depending on your TDS -- Total Dissolved Solids; all other salts) with a similarly low KH of low carbonates. Your water needs to be not much more than 90 microseimens of conductivity to enable hatching of the eggs. > > > > If your water is not within the above parameters, I'd suggest you get an R/O unit to cut your tap water with it until it's within reach of these numbers -- but slowly, as too fast of a transition can promote osmotic pressure issues in the fish if converted too fast. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Jay > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49513	From: Jason	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

I know at some point, I will have to start to feed them. From what I have read evrybody seems to feed the fry baby brine shrimp. Does anybody know a good alternative to this? As I don't have access to the baby brine shrimp. Thanks --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I just happened to look and some of the eggs actually have hatched and are wigglers (there about 30 or so)_. The parents had actually moved them to a different part of the filter that I did not notice. > > Now I need to read up on what to do now. Do I need to feed the wiglers? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Jay, Is there a reason why you state that your male Discus has failed to fertilize the eggs twice? If it is just that the eggs didn't hatch, this is not necessarily a fault of the male's, in believing he did not fertilize the eggs. What are your water parameters, and in particular, what is your KH and your GH? Do you know what your water's TDS and conductivity is? > > > > Discus eggs do not develop properly, most often failing to hatch, if the water is much over 4 dGH (preferably nearer 3 dGh to 3.5 dGH, depending on your TDS -- Total Dissolved Solids; all other salts) with a similarly low KH of low carbonates. Your water needs to be not much more than 90 microseimens of conductivity to enable hatching of the eggs. > > > > If your water is not within the above parameters, I'd suggest you get an R/O unit to cut your tap water with it until it's within reach of these numbers -- but slowly, as too fast of a transition can promote osmotic pressure issues in the fish if converted too fast. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Jay > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49514	From: Jason	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Hopefully everything will go good. I wish I could be at home and not at work --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > Wow, that is so cool! > > The discus feed the babies with their slime coating, so you get to just sit back and enjoy! Congrats on your new "family"! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > I just happened to look and some of the eggs actually have hatched and are wigglers (there about 30 or so)_. The parents had actually moved them to a different part of the filter that I did not notice. > > > > Now I need to read up on what to do now. Do I need to feed the wiglers? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Jay, Is there a reason why you state that your male Discus has failed to fertilize the eggs twice? If it is just that the eggs didn't hatch, this is not necessarily a fault of the male's, in believing he did not fertilize the eggs. What are your water parameters, and in particular, what is your KH and your GH? Do you know what your water's TDS and conductivity is? > > > > > > Discus eggs do not develop properly, most often failing to hatch, if the water is much over 4 dGH (preferably nearer 3 dGh to 3.5 dGH, depending on your TDS -- Total Dissolved Solids; all other salts) with a similarly low KH of low carbonates. Your water needs to be not much more than 90 microseimens of conductivity to enable hatching of the eggs. > > > > > > If your water is not within the above parameters, I'd suggest you get an R/O unit to cut your tap water with it until it's within reach of these numbers -- but slowly, as too fast of a transition can promote osmotic pressure issues in the fish if converted too fast. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > > > I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Jay > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49515	From: haecklers	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/breeding/discus.php looks like a good article. If you don't want to hatch brine shrimp, another first food is boiled egg yolk. The quality of the eggs is important, and if you can get "real" eggs from someone who keeps them loose in their yard that is the best - the yolk should be a very deep orange. You'd crumble a tiny bit of the yolk and either put it in the water or mix it with water and use a dropper to add some to the tank. Keep the rest refrigerated and do a new one every few days. I've got cultures of vinegar eels and microworms for my fry. They're pretty easy to maintain and use. Vinegar eels are easier to grow but microworms are easier to harvest. With my angelfish, I'm thinking a lot about a cleaning crew for their frequent feedings. I have a variety of snails, some small guppies, shrimp and some cories to clean up what the baby fish miss. Kuhli loaches would be good, too. Since water quality is so important with discus, cleaning up uneaten food should be a high priority once you start feeding the babies. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@...> wrote: > > Hopefully everything will go good. I wish I could be at home and not at work > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > Wow, that is so cool! > > > > The discus feed the babies with their slime coating, so you get to just sit back and enjoy! Congrats on your new "family"! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > I just happened to look and some of the eggs actually have hatched and are wigglers (there about 30 or so)_. The parents had actually moved them to a different part of the filter that I did not notice. > > > > > > Now I need to read up on what to do now. Do I need to feed the wiglers? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jay, Is there a reason why you state that your male Discus has failed to fertilize the eggs twice? If it is just that the eggs didn't hatch, this is not necessarily a fault of the male's, in believing he did not fertilize the eggs. What are your water parameters, and in particular, what is your KH and your GH? Do you know what your water's TDS and conductivity is? > > > > > > > > Discus eggs do not develop properly, most often failing to hatch, if the water is much over 4 dGH (preferably nearer 3 dGh to 3.5 dGH, depending on your TDS -- Total Dissolved Solids; all other salts) with a similarly low KH of low carbonates. Your water needs to be not much more than 90 microseimens of conductivity to enable hatching of the eggs. > > > > > > > > If your water is not within the above parameters, I'd suggest you get an R/O unit to cut your tap water with it until it's within reach of these numbers -- but slowly, as too fast of a transition can promote osmotic pressure issues in the fish if converted too fast. Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > > > > > I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Jay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49516	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/8/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Actually, the kitty litter is dolomite, and you just want it plain. Watch for any deodorizers that may be added to it, as they may be toxic to the fish. You most certainly not want to use the clumping kind of kitty litter. It will clump in the litter box, but when I've seen it submerged in water, it tends to dissolve, which will lead to a cloudiness in the tank. One might also want to consider the use of oyster shell, should they live far enough from the city to have a Farmers' Coop or feed store nearby. It is sold for use with chickens and some other birds, and is inexpensive in this type of store. It will help maintain the pH and add hardness to the water, so you will have to experiment with it. However, a bag of it could last you many years, depending on how much you need to use on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of haecklers Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 6:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies I've used soil from the yard (the lower the humus the better because it tends to rot underwater), and I've read you can use the clay kitty litter. The clay holds minerals and releases them to the plants, it also chelates harmful metals from the water and breaks down some toxic compounds, so would make the tank healthier for the fish. You need to cover it with about an inch of sand to prevent it from clouding the water. But you don't need to buy the expensive sand from the fish store, you can use playsand sold for kids' sandboxes. Just wash it first by spraying it with water and pouring the water off several times until the water stops clouding up. It can take a day or a week for the aquarium water to clear when you do it this way but then you have a good substrate that will last many years. - Renate --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > You need a good substrate made for planted tanks. Just plain gravel does not > give satisfactory results. A cheap one is Turface, which is made for baseball > fields. It's hard to find though, but if you do some research, you should be > able to find it. Other options are Aquasoil, Fluorite, and there are more - > just do a google search. That will improve your chances of your plants > surviving. > > ~ Laurie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49517	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: New betta, sharing pictures

This last weekend I bought a new betta (male veil tail I think it's called... regular long fins). He has very pretty coloring though, so I don't mind his not-so-fancy fins. He's very happy in his new larger home (it's a large glass bowl). He's happy building a bubble nest every day and exploring his bowl. http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/5160177135/ Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49518	From: Ray	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Jay, Glad to hear you have some 30 or so wrigglers, at least it shows you have a pair (male & female) and that the male is fertile. As you may be aware, 30 is not a lot when considering how many they normally have on the average, but there's no need to complain as it's a start. As both \\Steve// and Bill M bought up though, there are a number of things that can go wrong even if one thinks they have a pair. There may be times when two females will pair up, as occasionally happens with other Cichlids, more so with Angelfish rather than others. The spawning site situated near too strong of a current can wash the male's milt away without your realizing what's happeningm resulting in unfertilized eggs. I'm not meaning to rehash these points, as the guys already pointed them out and while I had it in mind to advise you of these things, by far the more probable cause for undeveloping eggs is adverse water conditions, unsuited for proper Discus egg development. Apparently, your fortunate enough to have water of parameters within the requirements of hatching Discus eggs. Still, with only 30 eggs hatching, there still is some kind of a problem there, going on. While it may just be that your male wasn't diligent enough in fertilizing the eggs, being new to this procedure of spawning, you'll need to be aware of physical conditions in the tank, like the filter return flow being located too close to the spawning site. So, welcome to the world of rearing Discus (hopefully). Before going further though. please know that new Discus pairs are notorious for eating their eggs and/or their fry, at any stage although if this happens they should spawn again very soon -- like within another 8 or 10 days. If you're lucky enough that they don't eat them, you should be prepared to start feeding the fry after 4 days of them free-swimming. While the fry will start feeding from the parents' slime coat as soon as they're free-swimming, ideally -- and for the best growth of the fry -- you should supplement their feeding off the parents' sides with other nutritious foods. You can't allow the fry to feed off the parents' sides indefinitely, as after 4 or 5 weeks of this, the parents will look as though their fins are being chewed off. I fail to see how newly hatched brine shrimp could not be available to you, when all's you have to do is hatch it. And, all's you have to do to hatch brine shrimp is to add a portion of shrimp eggs to a 2-liter or gallon jar of aerating water to which you add 6 tablespoons of salt per gallon -- and they'll do the rest, hatching out in 24 to 30 hours depending upon the room temperature. Nothing could be easier. I doubt this is too much work for anyone wanting to raise Discus; you only get out of something what you put into it (can't expect them to be raised by throwing a pinch of flakes food to them a few times a day), as it's not quite that simple; if you think it is perhaps you can't want to raise Discus badly enough to be willing to put some work into them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > I just happened to look and some of the eggs actually have hatched and are wigglers (there about 30 or so)_. The parents had actually moved them to a different part of the filter that I did not notice. > > Now I need to read up on what to do now. Do I need to feed the wiglers? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Jay, Is there a reason why you state that your male Discus has failed to fertilize the eggs twice? If it is just that the eggs didn't hatch, this is not necessarily a fault of the male's, in believing he did not fertilize the eggs. What are your water parameters, and in particular, what is your KH and your GH? Do you know what your water's TDS and conductivity is? > > > > Discus eggs do not develop properly, most often failing to hatch, if the water is much over 4 dGH (preferably nearer 3 dGh to 3.5 dGH, depending on your TDS -- Total Dissolved Solids; all other salts) with a similarly low KH of low carbonates. Your water needs to be not much more than 90 microseimens of conductivity to enable hatching of the eggs. > > > > If your water is not within the above parameters, I'd suggest you get an R/O unit to cut your tap water with it until it's within reach of these numbers -- but slowly, as too fast of a transition can promote osmotic pressure issues in the fish if converted too fast. Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jayjuhl@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > I have a pair of Discus fish that have layed eggs twice now, and they have failed to be fertilized by the male twice. Are there any tips or ideas that can help get these eggs fertilized? Any sduggestions would be welcomed. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Jay > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49519	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Well gosh apparently I have more BN pleco babies in my 55 gallon too! I was watching the male albino BN swat at the mystery snails in his breeding cone (he really doesn't like them in there, LOL), when I noticed smaller movement and realized he has a bunch of growing babies in his breeding cone with him. They're all about 1/4 of an inch long, and mostly appear to be brown BN pleco's. I can't tell how many he has but at least 6 were out near the opening of the cone, so I could see them really well. I also noticed that some of them are smaller than others, so he has different ages of babies, or is that normal for BN pleco's? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49520	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Or in my case have a person give you all their crushed coral sand (from a saltwater fish tank), after they got rid of all their fish. I'm gonna have a lifetime supply at the rate I'm going through it, LOL. I leave it in a garbage can outside out of the rain, so it's easy enough to get to, but not taking up space inside the house. It was enough crushed coral for a 125 gallon tank, so it nearly filled a 7 gallon-ish sized garbage can. I use little bags of crushed coral in my filters to help keep my pH stable. I also have it mixed in with the soil in my Angelfish tank, I haven't noticed if it works as well mixed in the soil compared to the filter, but I notice that it slowly dissolves when it's in the filter. Amber On 11/8/2010 3:43 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Actually, the kitty litter is dolomite, and you just want it plain. Watch > for any deodorizers that may be added to it, as they may be toxic to the > fish. You most certainly not want to use the clumping kind of kitty > litter. > It will clump in the litter box, but when I've seen it submerged in water, > it tends to dissolve, which will lead to a cloudiness in the tank. > > One might also want to consider the use of oyster shell, should they live > far enough from the city to have a Farmers' Coop or feed store nearby. > It is > sold for use with chickens and some other birds, and is inexpensive in > this > type of store. It will help maintain the pH and add hardness to the water, > so you will have to experiment with it. However, a bag of it could > last you > many years, depending on how much you need to use on a regular basis. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of haecklers > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 6:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > I've used soil from the yard (the lower the humus the better because it > tends to rot underwater), and I've read you can use the clay kitty litter. > The clay holds minerals and releases them to the plants, it also chelates > harmful metals from the water and breaks down some toxic compounds, so > would > make the tank healthier for the fish. You need to cover it with about an > inch of sand to prevent it from clouding the water. But you don't need to > buy the expensive sand from the fish store, you can use playsand sold for > kids' sandboxes. Just wash it first by spraying it with water and pouring > the water off several times until the water stops clouding up. It can take > a day or a week for the aquarium water to clear when you do it this > way but > then you have a good substrate that will last many years. > > - Renate > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Laurie Alaimo > <environmom95112@...> > wrote: > > > > You need a good substrate made for planted tanks. Just plain gravel does > not > > give satisfactory results. A cheap one is Turface, which is made for > baseball > > fields. It's hard to find though, but if you do some research, you > should > be > > able to find it. Other options are Aquasoil, Fluorite, and there are > more > - > > just do a google search. That will improve your chances of your plants > > surviving. > > > > ~ Laurie > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49521	From: haecklers	Date: 11/9/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Is it really that easy? I thought they had to be heated to 80F and they had to be in an inverted bottle (so then how do you keep it from falling over?) Then they have to be siphoned off a certain way so you don't get shells, right? And rinsed? And new batches started every day so you need two or three going at once? Then vacuuming the tank after each feeding because once they die they rot quickly and foul the water? (I'm not being sarcastic, maybe the instructions I read were needlessly complicated!) We keep our house low 60's and I thought that would be too cool to be able to hatch brine shrimp eggs this time of year. How many fry are a normal number in a spawn of discus, for their first successful hatch? How big of a tank do you need to grow them out, if you manage to keep most of them alive? I mean, of course they stay with their parents at first, but after a month or so when you remove them to prevent the parents from being "overgrazed", what size tank would be needed, assuming they all make it? Would he have to start it now (soon?) so it is cycled and stable by then? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > I fail to see how newly hatched brine shrimp could not be available to you, when all's you have to do is hatch it. And, all's you have to do to hatch brine shrimp is to add a portion of shrimp eggs to a 2-liter or gallon jar of aerating water to which you add 6 tablespoons of salt per gallon -- and they'll do the rest, hatching out in 24 to 30 hours depending upon the room temperature. Nothing could be easier. > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49522	From: Ray	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Well, it is that easy, but after reading your response, maybe mot that easy in your case. Seriously (?), you guys keep the house in the low 60's? What are you, a bunch of polar bears < g >? I would eventually catch pneumonia at some part of the Winter if I were to try to keep my place that cold -- and have to keep three jogging outfits on up until that time so as not to feel completely frozen. They make home furnaces for a reason, and while we can try to be conservative, I don't want to die trying (LOL). Anyway, by room temperature, I meant at least in the low 70's -- perhaps even up to 74 -- as a minimum. There are a good number of people that keep their homes at 74 -- I even know some on this group. I keep my home at 72 in the Winter, but I'm not saying that, that would be ideal to hatch brine shrimp, although it would work -- but it would work in that although it would take longer and you may not get as large of a hatch. Best scenario would be if you had your own fish room, which I realize you don't, but you would then probably be maintaining the room at least at 76 -- 78 as this would be more economical, rather than heating each individual tank. Brine shrimp eggs hatch best at 78 o -- 80 o, but will hatch at somewhat lower temperatures -- my reason for stating the difference from 24 hours up to 30 hours, as cooler temperatures increases the required hatching time. In your case, temperatures in the low 60's would preclude your being able to hatch shrimp eggs at room temperature, but you could use a small aquarium heater. If you couldn't find anything adaptable to whatever shrimp hatching containers you might use, you could set up an old 10 gallon tank -- with heater -- to partially immerse your hatching containers in, to keep them at the required temperature. An even easier way to maintain the temperature is to place a light bulb near the hatching container, but you'd need to experiment a bit to find the right wattage of bulb and the distance needed to place it near the container, to keep the temperature near 78 to 80. With the temperature issue now addressed and out of the way, we can turn our attention to the hatching containers, their position and anything else needing to be looked at. Simply put, no -- you don't need inverted bottles. Some hobbyist do use inverted 2 liter bottles with the bottoms cut off (as now the bottom becomes the top). Besides the thin flexible plastic hatching cones available in LFS's, there is also a rigid plastic hatcher similar to the 2 liter bottle, which even comes with a valve on the "bottom" (the neck of the bottle) to drain the shrimp with. As I stated though, you don't need an inverted bottle of any type. I've been using one gallon (clear glass) jars since the middle of the last century to hatch out brine shrimp. Either way -- inverted 2 liter bottle or gallon glass jar -- you'll need to build a small wooden rack to hold them; nothing elaborate, just a supported shelf (perhaps having just a length of wood or heavy plastic (depending on whether or not you'd use it partially immersed in a heated fish tank), etc., shelving as the bottom, with two ends to support the shelf that's going to be holding the bottles or jars -- an easy 20 minute project in all). In the top shelf, you would only have to cut a hole (or a number of holes, depending on the number of containers to be used) slightly smaller in diameter than the bottle or jar. This will adequately hold your bottle(s) or jar(s). With jars, they will need to be tipped on an angle in their shelf holes to allow for one deepest point where the airstone is situated. As the tumbling shrimp sink down into this deepest section, the airstone will continuously recirculate them. You may siphon them off, after shuuting off the air or removing the airstone, and allowing the shrimp to settle and the empty egg shells to float. The few unhatched eggs will fall to the very bottom. The newly hatched shrimp will gather just above the bottom, but if using a light bulb, they will gather at the point closest to it as they're attracted to light. Besides siphoning (or opening the bottom valve in some commercially offered hatchers) ypu could just use a turkey baster to remove the shrimp. There are some hobbyists who insist it's imperative to rinse the shrimp, but after draining through a fine weave brine shrimp net (or a man's muslin handerchief) any remaining salt happening to be in the minute amount of water clinging to the shrimp is absolutely miniscule and couldn't amount to any more than a few grains even after several months of feeding shrimp to a rearing tank -- while making partial water changes to the tank after a couple of weeks, removing most of it anyway. There is probably more salts n your tap water than there would still be on drained brine shrimp. Yes, new batches of BBS (baby brine shrimp) need to be started periodically. I start new batches each morning -- but, you can store any unused BBS in a small tupperware tray in the refrigerator to be used for several days, allowing you to only hatch them as needed, as you start running out of the ones being stored. If depending only on hatched shrimp remaining at 80 o, they should be fed to your Discus fry preferably only up to about 6 hours after the shimp have hatched as that's when their the most nutritious. Just as fish fry have yolk sacks at first, so do BBS -- which makes them especially more nutritious during these first 6 hours. In your case, you need only to remove the light bulb away from th hatcher (or turn it off), allowing the hatcher water to rop to 62 o, which will greatly slow up their metabolism to the point that they'll still be as nutritious 24 hours later -- so you have an advantage there. As for vacuuming the tank after each feeding, if not feeding properly (if overfeeding) you will have to do this with any food you give your fry. One advantage with BBS is that it will stay alive at least for a few hours, giving the fry time to eat it. An airstone in the fry tank is advised to keep the BBS suspended and in motion, and in front of the fry's noses. As with any other foods, you will very soon learn just how much BBS to feed the fry. You could also use snails or a few small Cory's to keep the bottom clean. You will shortly need to make PWC's (partial water changes) anyway, after a short while, just as you do with your regular tanks -- being even more important to do with growing fish since you need not only to keep their nitrate at a minimum, but you want to ensure the removal of as much growth inhibiting hormone products that they constantly give off, as you possibly can. Normally, Discus fry can easily number a couple of hundred on average, once the pair gets established and accustomed with spawning. For a young pair starting out, an average would perhaps be at least 125 or so. There are too many variables entering into this, not the least of which being what (and how well) the pair was being fed and conditioned just prior to spawning. As for a good size grow-out tank for your fry, it would be assumed that you intend to only grow them up to half-dollar size before you sold them, in which case your 30 fry could use at least a 50 gallon tank, when ensuring employing at least weekly PWC of at least 33%. Of course, a 75 (or even a 90) would do even better, but I'm assuming you like to know the least expensive way. If you ensure selling them off at a quarter size, a 30 gallon tank would suffice. These tank quanities would be bare minimum -- with your assurance to do PWC as frequently as even twice a week, as you observe their growth. Tank size of course has a lot to do with fish growth (or NOT, if crowded) but frequent PWC's has an equally important impact on the growth of fish. Even in the least adequate size tank, more PWC's will see to the fish growth even if it's not always the best solution. The better solution would be to give them a 120 gallon tank, but by your additional work in doing PWC's, it's not completely necessary. You just need to be prepared to do more work in PWCing if you want to keep the expenditure of a larger tank more reasonable. As for starting such a larger tank soon, well it can take up to 6 weeks to cycle a tank -- and you should be moving the fry out of the parents' tank by at least 5 weeks, tops! (you're behind schedule). . . . and that's only if you prefer to keep the fry with the parents even this long. Since, as long as the fry reach the stage where they can take other foods, besides the parents' mucous coating, there's really no need to keep the fry with the parents any longer than this time. There are good product (and junk products as well), out there in your LFS like Dr Tim's One and Only, if you want to have a tank cycled and useable within 24 hours -- but since 30 fry will have essentially no impact on waste issues at this first week stage, they can be transferred to a newly set up tank immediately. Actually,a cycled filter put into a fry tank at this time would lose all its bacteria from lack of sufficient food (ammonia, etc.) -- it will very gradually cycle with each day, as the fry continue to gradually grow with each day -- with absolutely no adversity to the fry. At five weeks of age, you will need a cycled tank, but only equal to their bioload, which still won't be very much at that stage. As I mentioned before, Discus fry will be able to accept newly hatched BBS after the fourth day of their feeding from the parents. They can be removed from the parents anytime after this period, as long as they're seen eating the BBS you're offering them. There's often a distinct advantage in this, as the arents may decide at any time to eat their offspring -- which can even happen as soon as when they're ready to spawn again, to make sure the present fry don't eat the newest ones that will be hatching. I remove my Discus fry on the 5th day -- always have! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > Is it really that easy? I thought they had to be heated to 80F and they had to be in an inverted bottle (so then how do you keep it from falling over?) Then they have to be siphoned off a certain way so you don't get shells, right? And rinsed? And new batches started every day so you need two or three going at once? Then vacuuming the tank after each feeding because once they die they rot quickly and foul the water? > > (I'm not being sarcastic, maybe the instructions I read were needlessly complicated!) We keep our house low 60's and I thought that would be too cool to be able to hatch brine shrimp eggs this time of year. > > How many fry are a normal number in a spawn of discus, for their first successful hatch? How big of a tank do you need to grow them out, if you manage to keep most of them alive? I mean, of course they stay with their parents at first, but after a month or so when you remove them to prevent the parents from being "overgrazed", what size tank would be needed, assuming they all make it? Would he have to start it now (soon?) so it is cycled and stable by then? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > I fail to see how newly hatched brine shrimp could not be available to you, when all's you have to do is hatch it. And, all's you have to do to hatch brine shrimp is to add a portion of shrimp eggs to a 2-liter or gallon jar of aerating water to which you add 6 tablespoons of salt per gallon -- and they'll do the rest, hatching out in 24 to 30 hours depending upon the room temperature. Nothing could be easier. > > > Ray >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49523	From: Am	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: want to buy newts in malaysia

im looking for somebody who wants 2 sell a fire belly newts in malaysia... im dying to buy more of these cute little creature.... plz any one?????

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49524	From: haecklers	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: Discus Eggs

Thank you so much! I saved that for later! I'm homeschooling my daughter and one of her goals is to raise discus, so we've been researching it and getting our feet wet with other kinds of fish. This will be really useful!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49525	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Do I need to be feeding my young BN pleco's anything special? I feed a mixture of sinking algae wafers, shrimp pellets, and omega one fish flakes. And when I make more of my "jello food" (the last batch didn't get enough pectin in it and it's the texture of toothpaste, LOL), I also feed that every couple of days. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49526	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Zuchini is a favorite when I was raising them. Also some wood in the tank for them doen't hurt. I think Sweet potato was also devoured rapidly when I put it in the tank. -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:21 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies Do I need to be feeding my young BN pleco's anything special? I feed a mixture of sinking algae wafers, shrimp pellets, and omega one fish flakes. And when I make more of my "jello food" (the last batch didn't get enough pectin in it and it's the texture of toothpaste, LOL), I also feed that every couple of days. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49527	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

Do I need to blanch the zucchini and sweet potato or can they go in uncooked? Amber On 11/10/2010 2:33 PM, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Zuchini is a favorite when I was raising them. Also some wood in the > tank for them doen't hurt. > I think Sweet potato was also devoured rapidly when I put it in the > tank. > > -Mike G > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:21 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > Do I need to be feeding my young BN pleco's anything special? > I feed a mixture of sinking algae wafers, shrimp pellets, and omega one > fish flakes. And when I make more of my "jello food" (the last batch > didn't get enough pectin in it and it's the texture of toothpaste, > LOL), > I also feed that every couple of days. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49528	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

I used to put the the zuchini in unblanched but if I recall correctly I would blanch(microwave) the sweet potato a little bit. Depending on how many babies, juveniles, or adults I would put in a slice, or a half of a zuchini. Or cut it in half and put both halves in and they would devour it. This in addition to the algae wafers and New Life Spectrum 1mm pellets. When they start eating like this make sure you keep up on the water changes and filter cleaning! To answer another question you posted prior to this one. I used to have multiple generations of babies in with the parents and they just kept cranking out the babies. -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:20 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies Do I need to blanch the zucchini and sweet potato or can they go in uncooked? Amber On 11/10/2010 2:33 PM, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Zuchini is a favorite when I was raising them. Also some wood in the > tank for them doen't hurt. > I think Sweet potato was also devoured rapidly when I put it in the > tank. > > -Mike G > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>>; > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; > Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:21 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > Do I need to be feeding my young BN pleco's anything special? > I feed a mixture of sinking algae wafers, shrimp pellets, and omega one > fish flakes. And when I make more of my "jello food" (the last batch > didn't get enough pectin in it and it's the texture of toothpaste, > LOL), > I also feed that every couple of days. > > Amber > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49529	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/10/2010
Subject: Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies

My female pleco was hiding for a couple of days, hopefully that's normal after breeding. I already have wood in the tank, and I've been doing a water change every day, just cleaned the filter last night too, was going to wait a couple days and clean it again. Amber On 11/10/2010 5:27 PM, Deenerz@... wrote: > > I used to put the the zuchini in unblanched but if I recall correctly I > would blanch(microwave) the sweet potato a little bit. > > Depending on how many babies, juveniles, or adults I would put in a > slice, or a half of a zuchini. Or cut it in half and put both halves in > and they would devour it. This in addition to the algae wafers and New > Life Spectrum 1mm pellets. When they start eating like this make sure > you keep up on the water changes and filter cleaning! > > To answer another question you posted prior to this one. I used to have > multiple generations of babies in with the parents and they just kept > cranking out the babies. > > -Mike G > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:20 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > Do I need to blanch the zucchini and sweet potato or can they go in > uncooked? > > Amber > > On 11/10/2010 2:33 PM, Deenerz@... <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com> wrote: > > > > Zuchini is a favorite when I was raising them. Also some wood in the > > tank for them doen't hurt. > > I think Sweet potato was also devoured rapidly when I put it in the > > tank. > > > > -Mike G > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>>; > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>; > > Sent: Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:21 pm > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I'm a new fishie mommy! BN pleco babies > > > > Do I need to be feeding my young BN pleco's anything special? > > I feed a mixture of sinking algae wafers, shrimp pellets, and omega > one > > fish flakes. And when I make more of my "jello food" (the last batch > > didn't get enough pectin in it and it's the texture of toothpaste, > > LOL), > > I also feed that every couple of days. > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49530	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: OT: Before You Go

The elderly parking lot attendant wasn't in a good mood! Neither was Sam Bierstock. It was around 1 a.m., and Bierstock, a Delray Beach, FL, eye doctor, business consultant, corporate speaker and musician, was bone tired after appearing at an event. He pulled up in his car, and the parking attendant began to speak. "I took two bullets for this country and look what I'm doing," he said bitterly At first, Bierstock didn't know what to say to the World War II veteran. But he rolled down his window and told the man, "Really, from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you." Then the old soldier began to cry. "That really got to me," Bierstock says. Cut to today. Bierstock, 58, and John Melnick, 54, of Pompano Beach - a member of Bierstock's band, Dr. Sam and the Managed Care Band - have written a song inspired by that old soldier in the airport parking lot. The mournful "Before You Go" does more than salute those who fought in WWII. It encourages people to go out of their way to thank the aging warriors before they die. "If we had lost that particular war, our whole way of life would have been shot," says Bierstock, who plays harmonica. "The WW II soldiers are now dying at the rate of about 2,000 every day. I thought we needed to thank them." The song is striking a chord. Within four days of Bierstock placing it on the Web, the song and accompanying photo essay have bounced around nine countries, producing tears and heartfelt thanks from veterans, their sons and daughters and grandchildren. "It made me cry," wrote one veteran's son. Another sent an e-mail saying that only after his father consumed several glasses of wine would he discuss " the unspeakable horrors" he and other soldiers had witnessed in places such as Anzio , Iwo Jima, Bataan and Omaha Beach . "I can never thank them enough," the son wrote. "Thank you for thinking about them." Bierstock and Melnick thought about shipping it off to a professional singer, maybe a Lee Greenwood type, but because time was running out for so many veterans, they decided it was best to release it quickly, for free, on the Web. They've sent the song to Sen. John McCain and others in Washington. They hope every veteran in America gets a chance to hear it. CLICK THE LINK BELOW TO HEAR THE SONG AND SEE THE PICTURES: http://www.managedmusic.com/Music/PlayBeforeYouGo.php \\Steve// Thank you Veterans, and Happy Veterans Day!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49531	From: jason graves	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: Growing a Blue Lotus indoors

Hey all, Im growing a Blue Lotus water plant from a kit! I got it through http://thebluelotus.webs.com Anyone done this? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49532	From: haecklers	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner

They seem to have had a rough trip through the postal service. But I don't know if they are sick or just scared. I have 5 of them, about 1" long. They're mostly black (I read that is stress?) and they all crowd together with their faces in the corner of the tank. I had them in a new tank but worried some bacteria or something was making the water bad so I moved them with the other JD's which are the same size, thinking that maybe seeing them swimming and eating would make the new ones feel safer. If they got sick from their time in the mail, I'd rather catch it early and save them, but I don't want to medicate them unnecessarily. I need advice from people who know Jack Dempseys and how they behave. They do eat, and I don't see anything on their skin. Gills look normal, too. One is holding one fin clamped to its body, but I think I may have injured it catching it in my net when I moved it from one tank to the other. These are my Blue Gene Jack Dempseys and I want to raise up a pair of them to breed, so I don't want to use any antibiotics that could make them sterile - an angelfish breeder told me some medications do that.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49533	From: duffy928542002	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: Fish that eat livebearer babies

I have a 75 gallon fresh water tank. The last time I set it up I had some mollies and swordtails and other livebearers besides some egg layers. In a few months the swordtails and mollies had grown from a handful to a bushelful. I got two angels in hopes they'd eat the new kids that came along and they probably did some but not enough. THen I moved. Now I've just set it up again and I just have my zebras while the tank goes through it's first month of operation. I really like swordtails and mollies, but angels (and I thought of a red-tail shark but not sure they eat babies) - both grow bigger than I like. I like small fish, 2 or 3" but I'll go to 4" if I can get one that will keep the population down. Any suggestions? Thanks alot.Rick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49534	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies

You can always sell the offspring on aquabid. -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: duffy928542002 <duffy928542002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 4:52 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish that eat livebearer babies I have a 75 gallon fresh water tank. The last time I set it up I had some mollies and swordtails and other livebearers besides some egg layers. In a few months the swordtails and mollies had grown from a handful to a bushelful. I got two angels in hopes they'd eat the new kids that came along and they probably did some but not enough. THen I moved. Now I've just set it up again and I just have my zebras while the tank goes through it's first month of operation. I really like swordtails and mollies, but angels (and I thought of a red-tail shark but not sure they eat babies) - both grow bigger than I like. I like small fish, 2 or 3" but I'll go to 4" if I can get one that will keep the population down. Any suggestions? Thanks alot.Rick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49535	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/11/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies

You can get a gourami or even a betta, they will both very happily eat my guppy/platty fry, not sure about the others, as I don't have any swordtails or molly fry in my tanks. Amber On 11/11/2010 3:52 PM, duffy928542002 wrote: > > > I have a 75 gallon fresh water tank. The last time I set it up I had > some mollies and swordtails and other livebearers besides some egg > layers. In a few months the swordtails and mollies had grown from a > handful to a bushelful. I got two angels in hopes they'd eat the new > kids that came along and they probably did some but not enough. THen I > moved. > Now I've just set it up again and I just have my zebras while the tank > goes through it's first month of operation. I really like swordtails > and mollies, but angels (and I thought of a red-tail shark but not > sure they eat babies) - both grow bigger than I like. I like small > fish, 2 or 3" but I'll go to 4" if I can get one that will keep the > population down. Any suggestions? Thanks alot.Rick > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49536	From: suemfrancis	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: larch needles in pond

My 4 month old 5,000/6,000 litre pond is under attack by larch needles. I am removing as many as I can with a net but the surrounding trees (quite some distance away) still have loads to drop. Does anyone know how harmful these could be to the fish (5 small goldfish 2 small shubumkins?) I have a small filter running which I am planning to continue throughout the winter but the large filter (more suited to the size of the pond) can only be operated in temperatures above 10degC. and as the temperatures were dropping below this a few weeks ago, I packed it away for the winter. I have a net across the pond which is catching most of the larger leaves but the larch needles are so fine they just fall straight through it. Sue Francis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49537	From: haecklers	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies

If you get a single convict, it won't breed so may not get territorial, but it will eat babies. If they've been kept in poor quality water and crowded conditions then that will stunt their growth, so they may top out at around 3-4", especially a female (you can spot them - more rounded and no pointy tips on the fins). The larger the predator you have the longer they'll be able to eat babies. My betta and gouramis pretty much give up on the guppies once they're about a week old - by then they're too alert and quick to catch. With spawns from mature females numbering in the 60's that still leaves a lot. I've got two pearl gouramis and a betta in with my guppies and am still over-run with them. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "duffy928542002" <duffy928542002@...> wrote: > > > I have a 75 gallon fresh water tank. The last time I set it up I had some mollies and swordtails and other livebearers besides some egg layers. In a few months the swordtails and mollies had grown from a handful to a bushelful. I got two angels in hopes they'd eat the new kids that came along and they probably did some but not enough. THen I moved. > Now I've just set it up again and I just have my zebras while the tank goes through it's first month of operation. I really like swordtails and mollies, but angels (and I thought of a red-tail shark but not sure they eat babies) - both grow bigger than I like. I like small fish, 2 or 3" but I'll go to 4" if I can get one that will keep the population down. Any suggestions? Thanks alot.Rick >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49538	From: Bren Linny	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies

african dwarf frogs eat baby fish, and actually thrive on a diet of live food. They are easy to care for, produce little waste and live peacefully with community fish. They would prefer a plant, rock or ornament of some sort to hide by to feel most comfortable but you will soon find your fry population greatly diminished. And they are a nice little addition to an aquarium living completely underwater only coming up for a quick gulp of air once in a while. bren On Thu Nov 11th, 2010 7:52 PM EST duffy928542002 wrote: > >I have a 75 gallon fresh water tank. The last time I set it up I had some mollies and swordtails and other livebearers besides some egg layers. In a few months the swordtails and mollies had grown from a handful to a bushelful. I got two angels in hopes they'd eat the new kids that came along and they probably did some but not enough. THen I moved. >Now I've just set it up again and I just have my zebras while the tank goes through it's first month of operation. I really like swordtails and mollies, but angels (and I thought of a red-tail shark but not sure they eat babies) - both grow bigger than I like. I like small fish, 2 or 3" but I'll go to 4" if I can get one that will keep the population down. Any suggestions? Thanks alot.Rick >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49539	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies

The easiest way to control population is to limit the number of female mollys and swordtails that go into the tank, or to keep all males to start with. If the tank is well decorated there is nothing wrong with keeping all male mollys and swordtails together, I have done it many times over the years. Remember that each female can produce 30 - 50+ fry every 30 days. Thats a lot of fry to eat if you have a lot of females. Other ideas for you... when you know you are expecting fry back off your feeding schedule to every other day so the fish in the tank have an appetite for fry. Mollys and swordtails will eat their own fry if they are hungry. Thinning out decorations and plants when fry are born also helps the adult fish find them easier to eat them. Other small fish that are compatible with mollys and swordtails that will help to eat the fry... cherry barbs, gold barbs, neon dwarf rainbows, red & blue columbian tetras, diamond tetras, dwarf gourami (I would only keep 1 male or a pair in the tank rather than multiples males of these), leopard danios, head and tail light tetras, black skirt & white skirt tetras... and the list goes on. Let me know if you need more suggestions beyond these, I will gladly list more for you. Hope this helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "duffy928542002" <duffy928542002@...> wrote: > > > I have a 75 gallon fresh water tank. The last time I set it up I had some mollies and swordtails and other livebearers besides some egg layers. In a few months the swordtails and mollies had grown from a handful to a bushelful. I got two angels in hopes they'd eat the new kids that came along and they probably did some but not enough. THen I moved. > Now I've just set it up again and I just have my zebras while the tank goes through it's first month of operation. I really like swordtails and mollies, but angels (and I thought of a red-tail shark but not sure they eat babies) - both grow bigger than I like. I like small fish, 2 or 3" but I'll go to 4" if I can get one that will keep the population down. Any suggestions? Thanks alot.Rick >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49540	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner

What you are describing sounds like extreme stress rather than illness. I would add more decor to the tank so it is densely decorated until they are settled in and better adjusted to their new environment. As they get larger they will dig up plants and rearrange the tank to their liking, but by then they should be settled in enough for you to rework the decor situation if needed. Also, avoid quick movement around the tank, avoid moving them again (chasing, catching, and moving to new environment will all add stress) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > They seem to have had a rough trip through the postal service. But I don't know if they are sick or just scared. I have 5 of them, about 1" long. They're mostly black (I read that is stress?) and they all crowd together with their faces in the corner of the tank. I had them in a new tank but worried some bacteria or something was making the water bad so I moved them with the other JD's which are the same size, thinking that maybe seeing them swimming and eating would make the new ones feel safer. > > If they got sick from their time in the mail, I'd rather catch it early and save them, but I don't want to medicate them unnecessarily. I need advice from people who know Jack Dempseys and how they behave. They do eat, and I don't see anything on their skin. Gills look normal, too. One is holding one fin clamped to its body, but I think I may have injured it catching it in my net when I moved it from one tank to the other. > > These are my Blue Gene Jack Dempseys and I want to raise up a pair of them to breed, so I don't want to use any antibiotics that could make them sterile - an angelfish breeder told me some medications do that. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49541	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Growing a Blue Lotus indoors

I did start a blue lotus from seed, which I got from ebay for something like 5 seeds for $9. My fault, I let them sit in the jar for way too long after they sprouted, but I have no doubt they would have done well. I have grown pink lotus from seed with no problems. (about 5 seeds for $6). I have never completely grown them inside though so I don't know how they would fair, I think not too well for it must be impossible to give them enough light. You have to file a spot in the hard shell or it will take forever. then you can just sprout them in a jar of water, like a peanut butter jar, mayonaise jar, whatever. After that, I put them in a shallow pond outside and they thrived. Next year I will try blue lotus and yellow lotus again, with the thought of putting them in the pond. I am interested to see how they do inside, and wish you the best of luck. I hope they do thrive indoors for you. I had thought about growing them up in a 10 gallon aquarium, but still I suspect they might get too big to stay inside and the lighting may be a problem. Maybe I'm wrong though. Betti ----- Original Message ----- From: jason graves Date: Thursday, November 11, 2010 5:24 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Growing a Blue Lotus indoors To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Hey all, Im growing a Blue Lotus water plant from a kit! I got > it through > http://thebluelotus.webs.com > Anyone done this? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49542	From: haecklers	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner

Thanks Dawn! I got some Maracyn 2 just in case they got fin rot, but didn't use it, tho I did give them a dose of Prazi, just in case. They were holding their fins all clamped this morning. Now they seem a lot better - they're swimming around more, but still don't seem to be acting normal. I realized after I put them with my regular JD's that I may have made a terrible mistake - they're all the same size and if the new ones stop being pale/black and dull then I won't be able to tell them apart! But the ones I've had longer are fatter. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > What you are describing sounds like extreme stress rather than illness. I would add more decor to the tank so it is densely decorated until they are settled in and better adjusted to their new environment. As they get larger they will dig up plants and rearrange the tank to their liking, but by then they should be settled in enough for you to rework the decor situation if needed. Also, avoid quick movement around the tank, avoid moving them again (chasing, catching, and moving to new environment will all add stress) > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > They seem to have had a rough trip through the postal service. But I don't know if they are sick or just scared. I have 5 of them, about 1" long. They're mostly black (I read that is stress?) and they all crowd together with their faces in the corner of the tank. I had them in a new tank but worried some bacteria or something was making the water bad so I moved them with the other JD's which are the same size, thinking that maybe seeing them swimming and eating would make the new ones feel safer. > > > > If they got sick from their time in the mail, I'd rather catch it early and save them, but I don't want to medicate them unnecessarily. I need advice from people who know Jack Dempseys and how they behave. They do eat, and I don't see anything on their skin. Gills look normal, too. One is holding one fin clamped to its body, but I think I may have injured it catching it in my net when I moved it from one tank to the other. > > > > These are my Blue Gene Jack Dempseys and I want to raise up a pair of them to breed, so I don't want to use any antibiotics that could make them sterile - an angelfish breeder told me some medications do that. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49543	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner

I do not have first hand knowledge but have heard that the "blue gene" Dempsey's are more docile. They may not fare well long term with normalls if this is true. Something else to consider. You did not quarantine and put them with your other fish. This could be bad for all the fish in the tank. I am guilty of doing this and losing a perfectly healthy tank of fish to an unknown illness. -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: haecklers <haecklers@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Nov 12, 2010 6:51 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner Thanks Dawn! I got some Maracyn 2 just in case they got fin rot, but didn't use it, tho I did give them a dose of Prazi, just in case. They were holding their fins all clamped this morning. Now they seem a lot better - they're swimming around more, but still don't seem to be acting normal. I realized after I put them with my regular JD's that I may have made a terrible mistake - they're all the same size and if the new ones stop being pale/black and dull then I won't be able to tell them apart! But the ones I've had longer are fatter. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > What you are describing sounds like extreme stress rather than illness. I would add more decor to the tank so it is densely decorated until they are settled in and better adjusted to their new environment. As they get larger they will dig up plants and rearrange the tank to their liking, but by then they should be settled in enough for you to rework the decor situation if needed. Also, avoid quick movement around the tank, avoid moving them again (chasing, catching, and moving to new environment will all add stress) > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > They seem to have had a rough trip through the postal service. But I don't know if they are sick or just scared. I have 5 of them, about 1" long. They're mostly black (I read that is stress?) and they all crowd together with their faces in the corner of the tank. I had them in a new tank but worried some bacteria or something was making the water bad so I moved them with the other JD's which are the same size, thinking that maybe seeing them swimming and eating would make the new ones feel safer. > > > > If they got sick from their time in the mail, I'd rather catch it early and save them, but I don't want to medicate them unnecessarily. I need advice from people who know Jack Dempseys and how they behave. They do eat, and I don't see anything on their skin. Gills look normal, too. One is holding one fin clamped to its body, but I think I may have injured it catching it in my net when I moved it from one tank to the other. > > > > These are my Blue Gene Jack Dempseys and I want to raise up a pair of them to breed, so I don't want to use any antibiotics that could make them sterile - an angelfish breeder told me some medications do that. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49544	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 11/12/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies

Several mid to large size Killifish do a great job of keeping the live bearer population under control. Riv. cylindraceous has given me a good control. Blue Gularis -( Fundulopanchax sjostedti) are excellent controllers, they take out the Cichlid fry as well! They are beautiful fish and uncommonly interesting. -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49545	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: larch needles in pond

Sue, I cannot say that I am familiar with larch and their needles, but, if they are going right through your current netting, you need a finer mesh net over your pond. You will need to remove the needles, but how urgent that need is depends on how cold the water will get. One idea to help you collect the needles is to set up a gentle current to push the needles to an area of the pond where you will be able to easily scoop out a large quantity of the needles on a regular basis. Another thought may be to pray for rain, do a rain dance, so rain comes to knock most of the needles off the trees and have them fall to the ground in the area of the trees <G>. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of suemfrancis Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 10:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] larch needles in pond My 4 month old 5,000/6,000 litre pond is under attack by larch needles. I am removing as many as I can with a net but the surrounding trees (quite some distance away) still have loads to drop. Does anyone know how harmful these could be to the fish (5 small goldfish 2 small shubumkins?) I have a small filter running which I am planning to continue throughout the winter but the large filter (more suited to the size of the pond) can only be operated in temperatures above 10degC. and as the temperatures were dropping below this a few weeks ago, I packed it away for the winter. I have a net across the pond which is catching most of the larger leaves but the larch needles are so fine they just fall straight through it. Sue Francis

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49546	From: haecklers	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: New Jack Dempseys all huddled in corner

At the time I moved them I was really worried that my speed cycle of the new tank wasn't working and there was too much bacteria in there. I was aware of the risks of not quarantining new fish, tho, and had my fingers crossed! Thankfully, they all seem pretty good today (4 days later!). For the first time they're swimming around, exploring their environment, and tasting stuff. They still don't have normal coloring, but I'm pretty sure they'll make it now. Meanwhile, I did a 50% water change in the speed cycled tank and the two test guppies I put in there are looking better too. They had clamped their fins pretty tightly yesterday, so although there was no ammonia/nitrate/nitrite, there was something wrong with the water. Even the duckweed plants I put in there were dropping roots like crazy. The test I used tests for chlorine too, and that was zero, I'm not sure what could be wrong, must be the substrate I used, or the aged water I brought in from outside (I did let it warm up to offgas). Weird. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > I do not have first hand knowledge but have heard that the "blue gene" > Dempsey's are more docile. They may not fare well long term with > normalls if this is true. > > Something else to consider. You did not quarantine and put them with > your other fish. This could be bad for all the fish in the tank. I am > guilty of doing this and losing a perfectly healthy tank of fish to an > unknown illness. > > -Mike G

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49547	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: larch needles in pond

Larch Tamarack (Larix laricina) is a form of pine tree. The needles should not be harmful to the fish except for the risk of overwhelming organic buildup in the water over time as the needles break down. If you are removing most of them there should be no harm to the fish. Comets and shubunkin goldfish are pretty hearty fish. My suggestion would be to scoop out as many as you can now (as you have been doing) and then come spring, do a nice cleaning on the pond again to help remove excess organic buildup, along with reinstalling your filter. I would not worry too much about it. Python Products makes a pond vac that works very well at removing such debris. If you're interested I can find a link to it online for you. I know the owner of Python Products, so I have tested/used the pond vac a number of times over the years (often to demonstrate its use to customers) and can say first hand they work very well and are worth the investment for anyone with a large pond that collects pine needles, leaves, etc. over the course of the year. Hope this helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "suemfrancis" <peterelectrician@...> wrote: > > > My 4 month old 5,000/6,000 litre pond is under attack by larch needles. > I am removing as many as I can with a net but the surrounding trees (quite some distance away) still have loads to drop. Does anyone know how harmful these could be to the fish (5 small goldfish 2 small shubumkins?) I have a small filter running which I am planning to continue throughout the winter but the large filter (more suited to the size of the pond) can only be operated in temperatures above 10degC. and as the temperatures were dropping below this a few weeks ago, I packed it away for the winter. > > I have a net across the pond which is catching most of the larger leaves but the larch needles are so fine they just fall straight through it. > > Sue Francis >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49548	From: Rick Duffy	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies

Thank you all for your suggestions.   Rick --- On Fri, 11/12/10, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 12, 2010, 3:51 PM   The easiest way to control population is to limit the number of female mollys and swordtails that go into the tank, or to keep all males to start with. If the tank is well decorated there is nothing wrong with keeping all male mollys and swordtails together, I have done it many times over the years. Remember that each female can produce 30 - 50+ fry every 30 days. Thats a lot of fry to eat if you have a lot of females. Other ideas for you... when you know you are expecting fry back off your feeding schedule to every other day so the fish in the tank have an appetite for fry. Mollys and swordtails will eat their own fry if they are hungry. Thinning out decorations and plants when fry are born also helps the adult fish find them easier to eat them. Other small fish that are compatible with mollys and swordtails that will help to eat the fry... cherry barbs, gold barbs, neon dwarf rainbows, red & blue columbian tetras, diamond tetras, dwarf gourami (I would only keep 1 male or a pair in the tank rather than multiples males of these), leopard danios, head and tail light tetras, black skirt & white skirt tetras... and the list goes on. Let me know if you need more suggestions beyond these, I will gladly list more for you. Hope this helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "duffy928542002" <duffy928542002@...> wrote: > > > I have a 75 gallon fresh water tank. The last time I set it up I had some mollies and swordtails and other livebearers besides some egg layers. In a few months the swordtails and mollies had grown from a handful to a bushelful. I got two angels in hopes they'd eat the new kids that came along and they probably did some but not enough. THen I moved. > Now I've just set it up again and I just have my zebras while the tank goes through it's first month of operation. I really like swordtails and mollies, but angels (and I thought of a red-tail shark but not sure they eat babies) - both grow bigger than I like. I like small fish, 2 or 3" but I'll go to 4" if I can get one that will keep the population down. Any suggestions? Thanks alot.Rick > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49549	From: Teddy Tolley	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: fry control

I feel your pain my friend. My convicts just bred and there are so many fry! They guard them so well that I removed the parents to another tank so that the other inhabitants could thin down the population. Best of luck to you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49550	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies

When I had an over population of guppies, I went with a bumble bee catfish. Doesn't get very large and is nocturnal so hides all day. Jennifer ________________________________ From: Charles Harrison <charles@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, November 12, 2010 9:32:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish that eat livebearer babies Several mid to large size Killifish do a great job of keeping the live bearer population under control. Riv. cylindraceous has given me a good control. Blue Gularis -( Fundulopanchax sjostedti) are excellent controllers, they take out the Cichlid fry as well! They are beautiful fish and uncommonly interesting. -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49551	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Lighting

Hello everyone; So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. My fish stock is 1 Common Pleco 9 Guppie 7 Neon Tetra 1 Unknown type Neon 1 X Pristilla Tetra 5 Danio 5 Long Fin Danio 11 Platies I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a $200 or less. My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying something different if I want to plant some more) Water pH @ 7.6 Ammo @ 0 Nitrites @ 0 Nitrates @ 10 kH @ 6 gH @ 9 Thanks for any suggestions.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49552	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting

You need to look at 2-3 watts per gallon. Probably the least expensive way to achieve this is with compact fluorescents. LEDs would be a thought, but they would probably exceed your budget, and I've not seen any articles about how well they actually work--just the advertisements, which, as we all know may be a bit overblown. Lighting is just one part of growing plants. Just like fish, you need to pick plants that will like your water parameters. Different plants do best in different strengths of light. You may decide to get really into plants, with the fish becoming secondary. On the other hand, you could just muddle through the whole thing like most of us. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting Hello everyone; So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. My fish stock is 1 Common Pleco 9 Guppie 7 Neon Tetra 1 Unknown type Neon 1 X Pristilla Tetra 5 Danio 5 Long Fin Danio 11 Platies I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a $200 or less. My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying something different if I want to plant some more) Water pH @ 7.6 Ammo @ 0 Nitrites @ 0 Nitrates @ 10 kH @ 6 gH @ 9 Thanks for any suggestions.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49553	From: AMejia1976@hotmail.com	Date: 11/13/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12109&ref=6054&subref=AA&cmpid=E-_-TR-_-FTAFP-_-PRDT This is one I was looking at. From the config it seems like something to fill my need. While cost is a bit higher it does seem decent given that it does come w 2 bulbs (each is like $54). Only drawback could be spending $100 per year to replace the bulbs vs the $30 I spend now w regular fluorescent. Has anyone used/tried this? Alex Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry� -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 22:47:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lighting You need to look at 2-3 watts per gallon. Probably the least expensive way to achieve this is with compact fluorescents. LEDs would be a thought, but they would probably exceed your budget, and I've not seen any articles about how well they actually work--just the advertisements, which, as we all know may be a bit overblown. Lighting is just one part of growing plants. Just like fish, you need to pick plants that will like your water parameters. Different plants do best in different strengths of light. You may decide to get really into plants, with the fish becoming secondary. On the other hand, you could just muddle through the whole thing like most of us. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting Hello everyone; So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. My fish stock is 1 Common Pleco 9 Guppie 7 Neon Tetra 1 Unknown type Neon 1 X Pristilla Tetra 5 Danio 5 Long Fin Danio 11 Platies I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a $200 or less. My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying something different if I want to plant some more) Water pH @ 7.6 Ammo @ 0 Nitrites @ 0 Nitrates @ 10 kH @ 6 gH @ 9 Thanks for any suggestions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49554	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting

It does not come in 48". This is the one I just bought after much shopping around. I want 2 watts/gallon so I use only three of the lights. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+1 3822+16771&pcatid=16771 Note you will want to replace any actinic bulbs as they don't provide the correct spectrum for plants. The fixture in the link comes with 2 6700K (good) and two actinic. So I also bought one additional 6700K bulb. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AMejia1976@... Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 11:50 PM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Lighting http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12109& ref=6054&subref=AA&cmpid=E-_-TR-_-FTAFP-_-PRDT This is one I was looking at. From the config it seems like something to fill my need. While cost is a bit higher it does seem decent given that it does come w 2 bulbs (each is like $54). Only drawback could be spending $100 per year to replace the bulbs vs the $30 I spend now w regular fluorescent. Has anyone used/tried this? Alex Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 22:47:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lighting You need to look at 2-3 watts per gallon. Probably the least expensive way to achieve this is with compact fluorescents. LEDs would be a thought, but they would probably exceed your budget, and I've not seen any articles about how well they actually work--just the advertisements, which, as we all know may be a bit overblown. Lighting is just one part of growing plants. Just like fish, you need to pick plants that will like your water parameters. Different plants do best in different strengths of light. You may decide to get really into plants, with the fish becoming secondary. On the other hand, you could just muddle through the whole thing like most of us. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting Hello everyone; So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. My fish stock is 1 Common Pleco 9 Guppie 7 Neon Tetra 1 Unknown type Neon 1 X Pristilla Tetra 5 Danio 5 Long Fin Danio 11 Platies I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a $200 or less. My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying something different if I want to plant some more) Water pH @ 7.6 Ammo @ 0 Nitrites @ 0 Nitrates @ 10 kH @ 6 gH @ 9 Thanks for any suggestions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49555	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Weird Fish of the Week

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3356&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=November_12_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_of_the_week&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/38ql8pz [Photo at site.] Home > Blog > Staff blogs Weird fish of the week Our new series kicks off with a bizarre-looking group of marine fish: the stargazers. The stargazers belong to the family Uranoscopidae. Distribution is the Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific. These weird-looking marine fish have a particularly startling appearance when viewed from above, as their features look almost skull-like. This is due to the fact that these fish have eyes situated at the top of their large head and a big, upward-facing mouth. They use their pectoral fins as shovels in order to bury themselves in the substrate, so that only the top of the fish tends to be visible. This habit of sitting camouflaged on the bottom looking upward, has led to their common name of stargazers. Some of these fish are venomous, having large spines behind the gill cover. Astroscopus species can also deliver an electric shock of up to 50 volts, so they definitely need handling with care, if at all. Astroscopus are also equipped with internal nostrils so they can bring in water through their nostrils to breathe, rather than through their mouths. Some species are 'lie-in-wait' predators, whereas others have a worm-like lure with which to attract dinner. They range in size from around 45cm-90cm/18-36", depending on species. The Giant stargazer, Kathetostoma giganteum, is the largest species. Published: Practical Fishkeeping Friday 12 November 2010, 12:30 pm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49556	From: suemfrancis	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: larch needles in pond

Thanks Dawn Have found the link for Python Products and would cerainly seem like a good investments. Sue --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Larch Tamarack (Larix laricina) is a form of pine tree. The needles should not be harmful to the fish except for the risk of overwhelming organic buildup in the water over time as the needles break down. If you are removing most of them there should be no harm to the fish. Comets and shubunkin goldfish are pretty hearty fish. My suggestion would be to scoop out as many as you can now (as you have been doing) and then come spring, do a nice cleaning on the pond again to help remove excess organic buildup, along with reinstalling your filter. I would not worry too much about it. Python Products makes a pond vac that works very well at removing such debris. If you're interested I can find a link to it online for you. I know the owner of Python Products, so I have tested/used the pond vac a number of times over the years (often to demonstrate its use to customers) and can say first hand they work very well and are worth the investment for anyone with a large pond that collects pine needles, leaves, etc. over the course of the year. > > Hope this helps. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "suemfrancis" <peterelectrician@> wrote: > > > > > > My 4 month old 5,000/6,000 litre pond is under attack by larch needles. > > I am removing as many as I can with a net but the surrounding trees (quite some distance away) still have loads to drop. Does anyone know how harmful these could be to the fish (5 small goldfish 2 small shubumkins?) I have a small filter running which I am planning to continue throughout the winter but the large filter (more suited to the size of the pond) can only be operated in temperatures above 10degC. and as the temperatures were dropping below this a few weeks ago, I packed it away for the winter. > > > > I have a net across the pond which is catching most of the larger leaves but the larch needles are so fine they just fall straight through it. > > > > Sue Francis > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49557	From: haecklers	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting

You don't really need to spend much on lights to grow nice plants. Some apongetons and most of the crypts do well in lower lighting. There are so many kinds of crypts you could almost have a crypt-only tank that would still be exciting. Vallisneria is a tall-growing grass-like plant that should do well also. I got my crypts from Sweet Aquatics and was really happy with the shopping experience - they tell you the needs of the plants and how hard they are to grow. They also almost always include extra plants. Many of the fancier plants also need a CO2 system. So far I'm staying away from those. Did you know the bulbs need to be replaced every 6 months? After that amount of time the bulb has deteriorated to the point that it is giving off a different color of light. The yellower shades of light (from older bulbs and cheaper ones) promote the growth of algae, while the more blue end of the spectrum promotes the growth of plants. The blue gets lost as it goes through water, too, so the plants closest to the surface get more of the blue light. There's a scale they mark on the package that is the color of light the new bulbs give off. It is usually a number in the 1000's with a K behind it. For plants, don't even consider going under 5000K, but 6000K is better. Many of the "daylight" bulbs sold are around 5000K - 6000K. I replaced the bulbs in my 55 gallon with regular ones from the hardware store I got for around $3 each and they seem to be doing the job. As far as substrate, if you were going to empty the tank and start over I'd say go with soil or clay kitty litter - cheaper and just as good. But you have a lot of fish and a nice budget. Fluorite and Laterite are clay pellet products that won't cloud the water if you add them (wash them first, tho!) There are a few others. Rooted plants will need something like that to flourish, tho java fern and mosses won't. If you have sand or gravel substrate now, what I'd do is put a layer of the Fluorite or whatever you choose on top then use a gravel vacuum to mix them. Fish are much more attractive when they are swimming through plants, imho! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Mejia <AMejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants > I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 > Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece > of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at > the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. > > My fish stock is > 1 Common Pleco > 9 Guppie > 7 Neon Tetra > 1 Unknown type Neon > 1 X Pristilla Tetra > 5 Danio > 5 Long Fin Danio > 11 Platies > > I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try > other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a > $200 or less. > > My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying > something different if I want to plant some more) > > Water > pH @ 7.6 > Ammo @ 0 > Nitrites @ 0 > Nitrates @ 10 > kH @ 6 > gH @ 9 > > Thanks for any suggestions. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49558	From: larisha_allen	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: New to the group

Hi everyone my name is Rish I just joined the group, I love having several sources of information for my tanks. I worked in a pet store for about 2 years, we had a whole room dedicated to freshwater fish so I spent many many hours cleaning, caring,feeding and learning about several types of fish.Ive had fish tanks for as long as I can remember, as of now I have a 55 gallon assorted cichlid tank just the typical Mbuna species. Im currently looking into starting a 39 gallon saltwater tank just reading and getting as much info as I can before I jump in.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49559	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting

Presumably your existing light fixture contains 2 tubes side by side, each tube 30 inches in length? Rather than full length (48-inch) tubes? If the tank is a standard 75g at 4 feet length, 48-inch tubes would be best for thorough light dispersal. I would recommend a regular T8 fixture with dual tubes or one T5 tube fixture; the two types are not interchangeable. In T5 you can get HO (high output) tubes that equal approximately 1.5 T8 tubes. But this would be more than adequate for the vast majority of plants. I have two 48-inch tubes over my 70g, 90g and 5-foot 115g and for more than 15 years have grown plants with no difficulty. As for tubes, the best are full spectrum or daylight with a Kelvin rating around 6500K. You can buy expensive "aquarium" tubes from a fish store like the Life-Glo 2 or ZooMed's Ultra Sun. But the much less expensive daylight tubes made by GE, Sylvania or Phillips available from hardware stores are just as good. I have both. The colour spectrum is the important thing, around 6500K is close to mid-day sun and provides the blue and red that aquatic plants need most, plus green to balance for a true colour rendition of fish and plants. Keeping the light intensity minimum, just sufficient for the plants, will help a lot to prevent algae issues as it is easier to balance the light with nutrients. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Mejia <AMejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants > I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 > Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece > of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at > the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. > > My fish stock is > 1 Common Pleco > 9 Guppie > 7 Neon Tetra > 1 Unknown type Neon > 1 X Pristilla Tetra > 5 Danio > 5 Long Fin Danio > 11 Platies > > I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try > other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a > $200 or less. > > My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying > something different if I want to plant some more) > > Water > pH @ 7.6 > Ammo @ 0 > Nitrites @ 0 > Nitrates @ 10 > kH @ 6 > gH @ 9 > > Thanks for any suggestions. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49560	From: harry perry	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting/Low light plant list.

http://tinyurl.com/38g97oa The link was so long Yahoo would do a real good job on it so I used Tiny Url. instead. These plants will do well with regular lighting. Harry --- On Sun, 11/14/10, amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> wrote: From: amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Lighting To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 14, 2010, 12:27 PM   Presumably your existing light fixture contains 2 tubes side by side, each tube 30 inches in length? Rather than full length (48-inch) tubes? If the tank is a standard 75g at 4 feet length, 48-inch tubes would be best for thorough light dispersal. I would recommend a regular T8 fixture with dual tubes or one T5 tube fixture; the two types are not interchangeable. In T5 you can get HO (high output) tubes that equal approximately 1.5 T8 tubes. But this would be more than adequate for the vast majority of plants. I have two 48-inch tubes over my 70g, 90g and 5-foot 115g and for more than 15 years have grown plants with no difficulty. As for tubes, the best are full spectrum or daylight with a Kelvin rating around 6500K. You can buy expensive "aquarium" tubes from a fish store like the Life-Glo 2 or ZooMed's Ultra Sun. But the much less expensive daylight tubes made by GE, Sylvania or Phillips available from hardware stores are just as good. I have both. The colour spectrum is the important thing, around 6500K is close to mid-day sun and provides the blue and red that aquatic plants need most, plus green to balance for a true colour rendition of fish and plants. Keeping the light intensity minimum, just sufficient for the plants, will help a lot to prevent algae issues as it is easier to balance the light with nutrients. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Mejia <AMejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello everyone; > > So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants > I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 > Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece > of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at > the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. > > My fish stock is > 1 Common Pleco > 9 Guppie > 7 Neon Tetra > 1 Unknown type Neon > 1 X Pristilla Tetra > 5 Danio > 5 Long Fin Danio > 11 Platies > > I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try > other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a > $200 or less. > > My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying > something different if I want to plant some more) > > Water > pH @ 7.6 > Ammo @ 0 > Nitrites @ 0 > Nitrates @ 10 > kH @ 6 > gH @ 9 > > Thanks for any suggestions. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49561	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting

I knew I was forgetting something on my original post. Tank is actually: Width: 36" (91.44cm) Height: 25" (63.5cm) Depth: 18" (45.72cm) Tank's volume is approximately 16,200.0 cubic inches or 70.1 U.S. gallons, which is approximately 272.8 liters. Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting Hello everyone; So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. My fish stock is 1 Common Pleco 9 Guppie 7 Neon Tetra 1 Unknown type Neon 1 X Pristilla Tetra 5 Danio 5 Long Fin Danio 11 Platies I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a $200 or less. My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying something different if I want to plant some more) Water pH @ 7.6 Ammo @ 0 Nitrites @ 0 Nitrates @ 10 kH @ 6 gH @ 9 Thanks for any suggestions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49562	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting

You have a 70 Tall, then. The dimensions are more properly stated 36"L x 25"W x 18"D. It would, indeed, be a strange looking tank at 36" W x 25" H x 18" D. Perhaps something designed by Dali and Escher working together to design a tank. We should start talking in lumens rather than watts when speaking of bulbs for plants. Not all bulbs of a given wattage give out the same number of lumens as other bulbs of that wattage. Plants depend on a certain amount of light of a certain kind to do well. Watts does not measure the amount of light, but the amount of electricity used by the bulb. A 1 watt LED can put out as much light as a 60 watt incandescent. The average LED of last year would have an output of 47-54 lumens per watt. Compare that with a 60 watt incandescent bulb whose output is 14 lumens per watt at the start of its life. This year, the efficiency of an LED is over 60 lumens per watt, though you can also get them with much higher lumens per watt, up to 300, and there are LED's under development that put out much more in the way of lumens per watt. The link below will give you access to an Energy Department report on replacing fluorescents with LED bulbs. The data was collected in 2009, and the report was published in May of this year. http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/led-t8-flouresc ent-replacement.pdf http://tinyurl.com/26gc78z \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 1:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lighting I knew I was forgetting something on my original post. Tank is actually: Width: 36" (91.44cm) Height: 25" (63.5cm) Depth: 18" (45.72cm) Tank's volume is approximately 16,200.0 cubic inches or 70.1 U.S. gallons, which is approximately 272.8 liters. Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting Hello everyone; So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. My fish stock is 1 Common Pleco 9 Guppie 7 Neon Tetra 1 Unknown type Neon 1 X Pristilla Tetra 5 Danio 5 Long Fin Danio 11 Platies I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a $200 or less. My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying something different if I want to plant some more) Water pH @ 7.6 Ammo @ 0 Nitrites @ 0 Nitrates @ 10 kH @ 6 gH @ 9 Thanks for any suggestions.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49563	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Weird Fish of the Week

Yesterday I picked up three danios from Walmart. That's where I'm having the best luck getting full colored traditional striped danios that live. In the tank with them and some bigger fish, was a STRAAAAAAAAAAANGE fish. LOOOOOOOOOOONG, pink, with fifty million feet - I think. The sales people enjoyed teasing it, because it was trying to get them. Yours, Villandra Thorsdottir Austin, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 8:27 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Weird Fish of the Week http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3356&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=November_12_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_of_the_week&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/38ql8pz [Photo at site.] Home > Blog > Staff blogs Weird fish of the week Our new series kicks off with a bizarre-looking group of marine fish: the stargazers. The stargazers belong to the family Uranoscopidae. Distribution is the Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific. These weird-looking marine fish have a particularly startling appearance when viewed from above, as their features look almost skull-like. This is due to the fact that these fish have eyes situated at the top of their large head and a big, upward-facing mouth. They use their pectoral fins as shovels in order to bury themselves in the substrate, so that only the top of the fish tends to be visible. This habit of sitting camouflaged on the bottom looking upward, has led to their common name of stargazers. Some of these fish are venomous, having large spines behind the gill cover. Astroscopus species can also deliver an electric shock of up to 50 volts, so they definitely need handling with care, if at all. Astroscopus are also equipped with internal nostrils so they can bring in water through their nostrils to breathe, rather than through their mouths. Some species are 'lie-in-wait' predators, whereas others have a worm-like lure with which to attract dinner. They range in size from around 45cm-90cm/18-36", depending on species. The Giant stargazer, Kathetostoma giganteum, is the largest species. Published: Practical Fishkeeping Friday 12 November 2010, 12:30 pm \\Steve// ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49564	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 11/14/2010
Subject: Re: Lighting

Tank is Left to right is 36 inches Front to back is 18 inches To to bottom is 25 inches I hate measurements. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lighting You have a 70 Tall, then. The dimensions are more properly stated 36"L x 25"W x 18"D. It would, indeed, be a strange looking tank at 36" W x 25" H x 18" D. Perhaps something designed by Dali and Escher working together to design a tank. We should start talking in lumens rather than watts when speaking of bulbs for plants. Not all bulbs of a given wattage give out the same number of lumens as other bulbs of that wattage. Plants depend on a certain amount of light of a certain kind to do well. Watts does not measure the amount of light, but the amount of electricity used by the bulb. A 1 watt LED can put out as much light as a 60 watt incandescent. The average LED of last year would have an output of 47-54 lumens per watt. Compare that with a 60 watt incandescent bulb whose output is 14 lumens per watt at the start of its life. This year, the efficiency of an LED is over 60 lumens per watt, though you can also get them with much higher lumens per watt, up to 300, and there are LED's under development that put out much more in the way of lumens per watt. The link below will give you access to an Energy Department report on replacing fluorescents with LED bulbs. The data was collected in 2009, and the report was published in May of this year. http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/led-t8-flouresc ent-replacement.pdf http://tinyurl.com/26gc78z \\Steve// <file:///\\Steve\> -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 1:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Lighting I knew I was forgetting something on my original post. Tank is actually: Width: 36" (91.44cm) Height: 25" (63.5cm) Depth: 18" (45.72cm) Tank's volume is approximately 16,200.0 cubic inches or 70.1 U.S. gallons, which is approximately 272.8 liters. Alex From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Alex Mejia Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 7:47 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Lighting Hello everyone; So after a year of getting to know my tank, water chemistry and inhabitants I have decided to star to experiment with some live plants. So far I had 3 Java Fern, 1 Dwarf Sagittaria, 1 large piece of Mopani and a smaller piece of Mopani. The plants seems to be growing; especially the one all the way at the top of the Mopani however I only have 2 25 watt fluorescent bulbs. My fish stock is 1 Common Pleco 9 Guppie 7 Neon Tetra 1 Unknown type Neon 1 X Pristilla Tetra 5 Danio 5 Long Fin Danio 11 Platies I'm now looking to get some new lighting that would maybe allow me to try other plants. Any suggestions that won't empty my pockets? I am looking at a $200 or less. My tank is 75 gallon with gravel substrate (though I know I should be trying something different if I want to plant some more) Water pH @ 7.6 Ammo @ 0 Nitrites @ 0 Nitrates @ 10 kH @ 6 gH @ 9 Thanks for any suggestions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49565	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2010
Subject: Re: Weird Fish of the Week

Thanks for the new wallpaper on my computer Steve. I can hardly wait for my girlfriend to see it when she wakes up :) -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Nov 14, 2010 6:27 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Weird Fish of the Week http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3356&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=November_12_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_of_the_week&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/38ql8pz [Photo at site.] Home > Blog > Staff blogs Weird fish of the week Our new series kicks off with a bizarre-looking group of marine fish: the stargazers. The stargazers belong to the family Uranoscopidae. Distribution is the Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific. These weird-looking marine fish have a particularly startling appearance when viewed from above, as their features look almost skull-like. This is due to the fact that these fish have eyes situated at the top of their large head and a big, upward-facing mouth. They use their pectoral fins as shovels in order to bury themselves in the substrate, so that only the top of the fish tends to be visible. This habit of sitting camouflaged on the bottom looking upward, has led to their common name of stargazers. Some of these fish are venomous, having large spines behind the gill cover. Astroscopus species can also deliver an electric shock of up to 50 volts, so they definitely need handling with care, if at all. Astroscopus are also equipped with internal nostrils so they can bring in water through their nostrils to breathe, rather than through their mouths. Some species are 'lie-in-wait' predators, whereas others have a worm-like lure with which to attract dinner. They range in size from around 45cm-90cm/18-36", depending on species. The Giant stargazer, Kathetostoma giganteum, is the largest species. Published: Practical Fishkeeping Friday 12 November 2010, 12:30 pm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49566	From: haecklers	Date: 11/16/2010
Subject: Bristlenose v/s Cherry Shrimp

I've been thinking there aren't as many cherry shrimp in my shrimp tank as there should be. Today I found one of my berried females dead next to the green bean I'd given my albino bristlenose catfish. Do you think they got in a fight over food and it accidentally killed her? Do bristlenose catfish ever eat cherry shrimp? They've been together since the bristlenose was a baby, but it's pretty big now - about 3". It's mouth is more than big enough to swallow a cherry shrimp whole, if they do that kind of thing. I tested the water and no nitrates/nitrites, good parameters. There is a bit of mulm on the bottom - I've been putting off vacuuming since there were so many babies down there and I didn't want to suck them up.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49567	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/16/2010
Subject: Re: New to the group

Hello:    Welcome to the group!!!    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: larisha_allen <larisha_allen@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, November 14, 2010 10:21:24 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] New to the group   Hi everyone my name is Rish I just joined the group, I love having several sources of information for my tanks. I worked in a pet store for about 2 years, we had a whole room dedicated to freshwater fish so I spent many many hours cleaning, caring,feeding and learning about several types of fish.Ive had fish tanks for as long as I can remember, as of now I have a 55 gallon assorted cichlid tank just the typical Mbuna species. Im currently looking into starting a 39 gallon saltwater tank just reading and getting as much info as I can before I jump in. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49568	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Annual November Woes

This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after their routine water change yesterday. The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent it next year? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49569	From: haecklers	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

This time of year our water used to get smelly - bacteria bloom in the hot water tank (we finally figured out what it was and turned up the temperature to prevent it). The water department person said it could be from all the leaves falling. I guess the water carries soluble nutrients from the rotting leaves into the drinking water and that feeds the bacteria. I don't know how the water gets into your well, but maybe even trickling through the earth it can still carry nutrients. Interesting, now that you say that, my duckweed in my tanks is really doing well just now. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after their routine water change yesterday. > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent it next year? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49570	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Annual November Woes This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after their routine water change yesterday. The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent it next year? ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49571	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Re: Gourami spawning advice??

Hello:    I know it's late but never too late for Gouramis and good music.  To go along with "Several Species..." hpw about "Be Careful With That Axe Eugene," and "D.O.A."    I was wondering if maybe some of the erratic behaviour assigned to some individual Gouramis as being brought about through too much inbreeding of some lines.    Food for thought.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 12:54:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice??   \\Steve//, You're going back a few years < g >; the Stones brought "Honky Tonk Women" out in 1969, and Grace Slick wrote and first recorded "White Rabbit" (as a single) when she was with The Great Society even a few years before that (in 1966), before she joined Jefferson Airplane in '67. She then included it on an album of theirs (Jefferson Airplane) that year. I brought up aggression in these gourami's as being equated with smaller tanks, only as a possibility in your scenario with the 5 1/2 gallon tank, not actually knowing where you were going with it. Wasn't saying necessarily that they were aggressive. I'm not refuting what you've experienced with these fish, as you obviously saw what you saw. But I am questioning these fishes' reputation as a whole and am starting to think they're getting a bad rap. My experiences with these species goes back even further, during the decade of the 1950's into the early '60's, when my observations never saw anything in these fishes to believe they would behave aggressively. While, as I said, I read occasional reports of this aggression more recently, I also hear reports from hobbyists I know personally in which they describe the fish as getting along with the rest of their stock famously, and without incident. With your observations, I'm now leaning strongly towards that possibility I brought up about their personalities and demeanor varying from individual to individual, and have to wonder which behavior is more the norm (even if they might be capable of showing aggression). Thanks for bring back some musical memories -- "oldies but goodies", though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > Though I first observed this behavior in a 5 1/2 gallon tank way back when > "Honky Tonk Women" was a hit, Grace Slick was singing about a White Rabbit > (which is obviously referenced when Neo is told to follow the white rabbit) > and the druggies were grooving on "Several Species of Small Furry Animals > Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict", the behavior held > true in larger tanks as well one I had gotten out of school and was able to > devote more room to fishkeeping. In a relatively bare tank with few hiding > spots, dwarf gouramis were very timid. In a similar tank with lots of cover > to dive into, they had completely changed personalities and often became the > kings of the tank. > > Since then, I have noted similar personality changes in other supposedly > peaceful gouramis as well, though I never did do much work with pearls. > > You seem to be equating crowding with aggression, and I did not note that, > which is often a typical scenario, with the dwarfs in a small tank with > other fish. I probably would have kept honeys, if I could have found them, > as they are a smaller fish. > > As for the properly housed, many gouramis are found in areas of slow moving > waters, including swamps, with plants. Properly housed is recreating their > natural environment. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > > > \\Steve//, I'm not very sure (I tend to doubt) that the "peaceful" gourami > is a myth, although I will eagerly admit that lately I see reports of > aggression of even from what were notoriously extremely peaceful gourami's, > even the Dwarf (Colisa lalia) Gourami. Perhaps this is due to some recent > genetic factor being accidentally established in them as they're bred in the > Far East. > > When I first started reading of this behavior on this and other lists, in > this species a couple of years ago, I found it very hard to believe -- and > still do, as any kind of typical behavior in this fish. Pearl Gourami's > are, and have been know for "eons" in the hobby, to be nearly equally as > peaceful. When breeding both of these Anabantids during those many years I > was also breeding Bettas, I've never observed any sort of aggression in > either of these two species. > > I don't really know what you mean by these species needing to be "properly > housed," but perhaps a smaller than adequate tank may be able to lead to > some aggression when there's no room for any kind of territoriality to > exist. If this is your meaning of their needing proper housing, in that > they should not be kept in any numbers in small 5 gallon tanks, I fully > agree with you, as you would probably even get on your wife's nerves if > having to live together in a closet < g >, although I'm not even sure if > you're referring to the size tank. A bare tank is asking for trouble almost > even with all but the mildest of fish, as all's they'd have to focus on all > day would be each other -- especially so in a small tank where they can't > get out of each others' face. > > For any kind of a more tranquil setting, even lending to less potential > aggression from any fish having the possibility to display it, a planted > tank goes a long ways in encouraging more peaceful behavior in the majority > of our aquarium fishes. While there's no need for a jungle of plants, an > average setting of several plants in the aquascape is adequate. I used to > breed my Dwarf Gourami's in 10 gallon tanks (and Pearl Gourami's in 15 > gallon tanks), with several types of plants -- including some that could be > used by them, as being essential to nest building of these species -- and > which they'd bite off as needed; the bunch plants (Cabomba and Myriophyllum) > being so used. While I've bred them for years -- those days one could > readily find females being sold in the LFS along with the males -- I can't > say that I ever encountered aggressive behavior in these species, which all > the more puzzled me as I started reading of this more deviant (in my > estimation) conduct the past few years. > > As with many more advanced fishes though, and as is typically seen among > Cichlids, individual behavior can vary immensely within the confines of that > species' known behavior, and/or from the normal behavior of the average fish > of the species -- and this can include gourami's as being that diverse in > their conduct and mannerisms towards their conspecifics. I offer that this > more aggressive behavior, if it does occur in these gourami's, is a result > of atypical (not characteristic) demeanor -- perhaps as being incidental > with the genetics of the imported populations. I'd have to offer too, that > the smaller (dwarf) Honey Gourami -- Colisa Chunna -- is not in my > estimation seen to be aggressive either. We do know that others (Blue > Gourami's, as an example) of the clan can be absolute terrors though. Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@> wrote: > > > > Yet another bit by the "peaceful" gourami myth. Very few gouramis are > > actually peaceful, and those are ones you do not often see in the trade. > The > > "saving grace", if you want to call it that, is that their aggression is > > mostly directed at conspecifics (those of the same species). Only > > occasionally do they do more than just chase other species. > > > > If the gouramis are not properly housed, they will have, generally, a less > > aggressive personality, thus, lending credence to this myth. This > revelation > > came to me mumblety-mumble years ago when I was transitioning from high > > school into college. While in school, I could not keep anything but a > small > > tank in my prison cell sized room at school, so I maintained a small 5 1/2 > > gallon tank at school. (I got my large tank fix at home on various > weekends > > that were maintained by my father.) This tank came along with me to > college. > > The residents were a pair of dwarf gouramis, a few zebra fish and some > sort > > of small scavenger fish that I do not recall at the moment. > > > > My thoughts went something like this. I couldn't have a bare tank, and > rock > > work would take up too much room, but I had to do something to protect the > > gouramis from the wild swimming of the zebras. Flashing into my head came > > the idea of plants. I stuffed the tank with live plants, leaving a > swimming > > area for the fish to swim unimpeded. It took me a bit to get the mixture > of > > plants correct, growing, but not too fast, and stuff that may, possibly, > not > > outgrow the tank. I don't remember the mix, since those notes have long > been > > lost, but it worked. > > > > What a change overcame my little dwarfs. At first, I hardly saw them, > > suiting their advertised general timid behavior, and how they acted in a > > fairly bare tank. When the plants had been finalized, a great change came > > over them. When the male came out, he would chase everyone back into the > > plants and have the whole swimming area to himself. When the female came > > out, she was a bit more tolerant of the other fish, but not by much. When > > they both came out, the male would do the chasing, and also include the > > female in his targets. > > > > I never did see a successful spawn by them in that tank, but I really did > > not expect to for the size of the tank and the number of fish in it. It > was > > a good tank, lasting me all through college and twice yearly trips home at > > Christmas (3-4 weeks) and for the summer. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of ReBorn_Again > > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:55 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Gourami spawning advice?? > > > > Ray, > > > > Thanks for trying to help. > > > > Priya is an adult female betta fish. > > > > I got the gouramis to be part of an attractive planted community tank, > > having read that they are shy and gentle fish. The male is a bit pushy > with > > the others but hasn't seemed to have harmed any of them, with the > exception > > of the female pearl gourami who is now missing scales (two of them). She > > doesn't appear to be afraid of him, but is staying away from his nest, > which > > I only noticed yesterday afternoon among the floating duckweed. It looks > > like random bubbles all over the place, with a small area that is more > solid > > bubbles. > > > > I've only had the female gourami for about 2 weeks; I've had the male for > > only 3 weeks. I thought he was only a juvenile and thought it would be > neat > > to breed them when they were bigger, which I thought would be months from > > now. From the beginning he has tried to dominate her, often escorting her > > to one corner where he seems to want her to stay. He colored up to very > > bright colors - deep orange on his belly and blue on his tail (I thought > it > > was the good food! - LOL) The female never seemed that afraid of him and > > would come out of her corner whenever he wasn't looking and swim around. > > The day before this all happened with him building the nest I found, they > > were acting scared and every time I looked they were both hiding on the > > bottom. They didn't even come out to eat that day. I hadn't cleaned the > > tank or done anything unusual. > > > > The one female Endler's guppy in that tank is huge and gives birth to > around > > 50+ fry at a time. I can't seem to catch her without risking destroying > my > > tank but I want fish in there that will eat most of her fry since it's > too > > many for me to raise, so that was the job of the gouramis and the betta. > > That's how the female betta (Kalpana) got accidentally conditioned so she > > was really full of eggs, so we bred her with one of our males (the one > with > > the best fins, per the advice here). > > > > The gourami tank is a heavily planted 20-gallon tank. > > > > Are you saying that pearl gourami should only be kept separated males from > > females unless you want them to breed? A lot of sources say to keep them > in > > groups of 5. > > > > If I do nothing, will the fry just get eaten, by the male gourami and the > > other fish? If/when I see tails, should I move the whole nest to a > rearing > > tank? > > > > If I leave the male and female together will they continue to spawn > > frequently so that no other fish can live with them? > > > > The guppies are a strange case. I have 7 in with a pair of spawning > > convicts and tho the pair chases the remaining convict and forces him into > > hiding, they leave the guppies alone! I have guppies in with my Jack > > Dempsey fry, too; the JD's are 1 1/4 inches and they leave the guppies > alone > > (once the JD's realized they aren't fast enough to eat them). None of my > > guppies eat their own babies, and I wonder (guess I'll find out!) if > they'll > > eat the fry of other fish or not. > > > > The guppies have been selectively bred (by living with predators) to be > > almost impossible to catch, so I'm kind of stuck with them now, short of > > removing all my plants and emptying the tanks. The juveniles can be > tricked > > with food to come out and be caught but the old females are very very > smart > > to me and my tricks. You know, they store sperm for 6 months so you can't > > even stop them from having babies! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to give you some help here with some of your questions, but > your > > narrative seems a bit confusing -- unless I missed something previously > > posted -- but your last post before your prior one dealing with breeding > > your Bettas only discussed how to tell the sexes of the Bettas and about > > your "long-fin" female Betta. I do notice you removed the spawning female > > to a tank of her own -- good move -- but where does Priya come in to this > > picture? What species and sex is Priya? > > > > > > I guess I'll intersperse some additional questions between yours, as not > > knowing exactly what you're referring to, I can't give you an answer > unless > > I fully understand your statements. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ReBorn_Again" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I guess love is in the air here! Now the male pearl gourami is making > a > > bubble nest and chasing all the fish to the other side of the tank. We > had > > put the female betta who just spawned today in the 5-gallon heated bowl to > > recover instead of back in the gourami tank where she had been, and put > > Priya, the one who had been in the 5-gallon bowl into the gourami tank. > > > > > > > > So 2 questions: First, should I move Priya? I'd really like to keep > > the baby gouramis, I think they're cool fish and I wanted more anyways. I > > don't know how protective the parents are of their babies. I'm sure Priya > > would try to eat some. Would she get hurt by the dad? > > > > > > With your question of "how protective the parents are of their babies," > > what parents are you talking about? If you're talking about your male > Pearl > > Gourami (?), they are like most other Anabantid male parent in that they > are > > protective of their offspring only up to the point of their hatching. > > Beyond much further than that, they will soon loss their protective > instinct > > and shortly after the fry's free-swimming stage the male may just as soon > > decide to eat any of them that he can. Whether to move Priya into his > tank > > would depend on whether he is protecting a nest of eggs or fry at this > time > > -- and/or, if Priya is large enough not to be eaten itself even if the > male > > Pearl Gourami isn't even protecting a nest at this time. If he is > > protecting a nest, no other fish should be in with him. Is Priya a female > > Pearl Gourami, and a daughter of this male (you haven't explained that > here, > > but your last sentence above seems to possibly indicate that). If so, > then > > she's should be safe as long as she's not small enough to be eaten or > > harassed, and if he's not guarding a nest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second question: He's chasing the female gourami to the other side of > > the tank too. So I'm not sure if he's just starting to build the bubble > > nest or if they already spawned. She was fat with eggs, this afternoon > she > > doesn't look as fat. Could I have missed the nest yesterday or do they > only > > build it right when they spawn? There is a lot of duckweed floating where > > he chose to build it, and some lotus leaves, and it's smaller than I > > expected, so I could have not noticed it. I did notice that yesterday > they > > were acting weird - hiding a lot and not too interested in eating. She > has > > a bite mark on her side, some scales missing. Should I move her too, or > > would it be too soon? > > > > > > This is where the question of adding Priya to the male Pearl Gourami's > > tank becomes quite "ify," if as you suggest, he and a female mate may have > > just spawned -- even though you're not really sure. If the female mate is > > no longer looking as though she's fat with eggs, the odds are they have > > spawned, especially since she is now being chased away from the spawning > > site and in a very rough manner. If he hasn't yet built a nest though -- > as > > you seem to indicate, but leave questionable -- or if he was/is just > > starting to build the nest, they may well not have spawned yet if she > still > > appears at least somewhat fat. > > > > > > A few questions here would be; how long has the male been in this tank? > > How long has he been building his nest? How long has the female been in > > this tank with him? How were they behaving during the time they've both > > been set up in this tank? Are you sure the female was ripe with eggs > before > > you removed her? Since you're not sure of many things here, and since > he's > > aggressive with his mate, this would not be a good time to add Priya. > > > Observe what happens within the next two days and see if in fact any > > prospective fry hatch in his nest -- which will be seen as very tiny > slivers > > of tails vibrating in the nest, and his retrieval of them as they drop out > > of the nest. If after several days you do not see any free-swimming fry, > > you'll know they have not spawned. > > > > > > Before adding the female (mate) back to his tank, condition her up well > > first, with the best foods you can offer her, before placing her back with > > the male. At this time his nest should be well formed. I don't know what > > size tank you're using, but I've always found the best approach was to use > a > > clear divider, having her on one side and him on the other, since having > her > > in view will keep his interest in nest building up -- and you'll see a > > change in her behavior of wanting to get to the male's side of the tank > when > > she's ready to spawn. > > > > > > > > Their tankmates are: the female betta, Endler's guppies, a baby > > bristlenose (about 1.5 inches), two 3-4" kuhli loaches, and a bunch of > > snails. Are they all ok to stay? > > > > > > Who are "they"? Are you talking about the pair of Pearl Gourami's here? > > You're not very clear. If so, as I previously stated -- if you intend to > > breed and RAISE any Peaerl Gouramis, they should ideally have NO other > > tankmates, except for snails. All other fish, besides the female Pearl > > Gourami (if she's ready to spawn) will be in danger of attack, and/or, > these > > other fish (except for the baby Bristlenose) including the female Betta > and > > Endler's Livebearers will try to eat any eggs or fry that they can. The > > Kuh;i Loaches may be too busy burrowing in the gravel to even notice, but > > still, the fry could be in danger long-term as they're being raised. > > > > > > > > Any links to good articles (like that betta breeding one) on how > > gouramis behave when they are spawning and raising their family? I've > heard > > the pearl ones are the most gentle, but they can still be a problem when > > spawning. > > > > > > Yes, Pearl Gourami's are about the least aggressive of any of them. You > > may want to get a good book on them if you're looking for more in-depth > info > > on breeding them. Ray > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49572	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: BN Pleco babies

I got some okay pictures of some of the BN pleco babies in the cone. I'm working on getting hubby to hold the flashlight for me again, while I take the pictures, LOL. There are at least a dozen babies, some of them are already exploring the rest of the tank. I also have a few albino aeneus cory babies, some are tiny and newly hatched. The cory's seem to like all the water changes I've been doing because of the pleco babies, and have also been laying eggs at least once a week. http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/5185986769/#/photos/spamber/5185986769/lightbox/ Some babies are around the outside of the cone and just under the entrance of it. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49573	From: pam andress	Date: 11/17/2010
Subject: Re: BN Pleco babies

I bet everyone likes those water changes. You are very good at taking pics. and you have your husband trained very well. ;) Pam I got some okay pictures of some of the BN pleco babies in the cone. I'm working on getting hubby to hold the flashlight for me again, while I take the pictures, LOL. There are at least a dozen babies, some of them are already exploring the rest of the tank. I also have a few albino aeneus cory babies, some are tiny and newly hatched. The cory's seem to like all the water changes I've been doing because of the pleco babies, and have also been laying eggs at least once a week. http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/5185986769/#/photos/spamber/5185986769/lightbox/ Some babies are around the outside of the cone and just under the entrance of it. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49574	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Wow, I think you might be on to something. We are lakefront (I would call it a pond, not a lake) so surely some of the bio-decay finds its way into our ground-water. And while it doesn't seem to affect us, it blooms in my tank every November. By December, the decay is over and the cold has killed any microbes. ~Kai > "haecklers" wrote: > > This time of year our water used to get smelly - bacteria bloom in the hot water tank (we finally figured out what it was and turned up the temperature to prevent it). The water department person said it could be from all the leaves falling. I guess the water carries soluble nutrients from the rotting leaves into the drinking water and that feeds the bacteria. I don't know how the water gets into your well, but maybe even trickling through the earth it can still carry nutrients. > > Interesting, now that you say that, my duckweed in my tanks is really doing well just now. > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after their routine water change yesterday. > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent it next year? > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49575	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. ~Kai > Steve Szabo wrote: > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after their routine water change yesterday. > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent it next year? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49576	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Your problem is actually quite common in climates where fall and winter bring major changes in weather, especially if you are using well water. There are a great many things that alter water chemistry at various times of the year... drought, excess rain/flooding, etc. If you live in an agricultural area then you also need to consider fertilizers that the farmers spread in the fields after the summer/fall harvest in preparation for winter and the coming spring planting season. Run off from those fields will affect well water and the area affected can be quite wide range. As was already mentioned, the ability to test for all of these things can get quite expensive and usually must be done by a lab. There are various solutions, the first already suggested as saving water before you expect these changes... but if this lasts through the entire fall/winter season, that may be a bit impractical, especially for a larger tank. You can also cut the water with bottled water, RO water, DI water, but watch for pH shifts if you do this and make the changes gradual. It may take some time and experimenting to find just the right ratio to work for you and your fish. As was already mentioned, the white cloudy would indicate a bacterial bloom, but the green pea soup you mentioned is an algae bloom. As bacteria kill various things in the water they create waste, which in turn feeds algae. This can be drastic and happen quickly. One other solution that would help would be to prefilter the water in a separate container such as a rubbermaid container or plastic garbage container, and run a chunk of polyfilter in that filter. Give the water a couple of days to filter this way before using it in your tank. Polyfilter typically pulls out everything unwanted and will help to purify the water, thus preventing all of those excess nutrients from feeding an algae bloom, and also removing anything the bacteria may feed on... and it will remove the excess waste from the bacteria as it dies off, too. This might be a little more costly than some other options to keep you in ample supply of polyfilter to get through the season, but it would be a lot less likely to drastically alter your water chemistry in the tank when it is added. If you attempt the prefilter with polyfilter be sure not to run polyfilter more than a few days on any given water supply you plan to add to the tank. Polyfilter, when left in too long, can over filter the water, thus removing important minerals the fish need for proper growth and organ function. As this happens the pH of the water can drop drastically and suddenly. Polyfilter is a temporary fix for any aquarium situation for this reason, but short term, there is no other media that can match its ability. A limit of a couple of days use on fresh water before going into the tank would avoid that complication. Best of luck to you!! Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after their routine water change yesterday. > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent it next year? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49577	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: BN Pleco babies

LOL, thanks Pam, I won't tell him (hubby) that though ;) Amber On 11/17/2010 9:29 PM, pam andress wrote: > I bet everyone likes those water changes. You are very good at taking pics. and you have your husband trained very well. ;) > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got some okay pictures of some of the BN pleco babies in the cone. I'm > > working on getting hubby to hold the flashlight for me again, while I > > take the pictures, LOL. > > There are at least a dozen babies, some of them are already exploring > > the rest of the tank. > > I also have a few albino aeneus cory babies, some are tiny and newly > > hatched. The cory's seem to like all the water changes I've been doing > > because of the pleco babies, and have also been laying eggs at least > > once a week. > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/spamber/5185986769/#/photos/spamber/5185986769/lightbox/ > > > > Some babies are around the outside of the cone and just under the > > entrance of it. > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience& ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply& if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)"<- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49578	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 6:44 AM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Your problem is actually quite common in climates where fall and winter bring major changes in weather, especially if you are using well water.  There are a great many things that alter water chemistry at various times of the year... drought, excess rain/flooding, etc.  If you live in an agricultural area then you also need to consider fertilizers that the farmers spread in the fields after the summer/fall harvest in preparation for winter and the coming spring planting season.  Run off from those fields will affect well water and the area affected can be quite wide range. I thought I might comment on this as this last response is coming close to outright hysteria. If your well is so shallow that agricultural practices directly influence you - - your well is too shallow. If you are drawing surface water - - that is really not much of a well and I would be looking to develop a good water source. Recommended practice here is that under about 50 feet of depth (there is some variation depending upon exact location) you are essentially using surface water (and its assorted ills). It may be called a ´well'´ but it is not really sub-surface water (which is what a well is supposed to be!). Then there is the way a well is accessed that can cause problems (topography etc). So blaming your area farmers for your difficulties is like blaming the birds that fly overhead for the same things - - there may be some connection but there isn´t much! There is much more risk from your septic system, your lawn (and the herbicides you use) and your vehicles (drips/spills/emissions). Many areas in Alberta use surface ponds (usually called dugouts) for water as sub-surface water is not very accessible or is of very low quantity. Every fall and spring there is an inversion of the water in such a system so I am quite aware of these difficulties - - but in a true well - - that´s quite a stretch! Darald

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49579	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/18/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Kai, OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your neighbors have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:13 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. ~Kai > Steve Szabo wrote: > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after their routine water change yesterday. > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent it next year? > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49580	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food but they're not particularly hungry. My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with "bad" well water... ~Kai > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > Kai, > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your neighbors > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > ~Kai > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kai > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent > it next year? > > ~Kai > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49581	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated fish may excrete more waste material. In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will also remove the residual medications. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food but they're not particularly hungry. > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with "bad" well water... > ~Kai > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > Kai, > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your neighbors > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kai > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Kai > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent > > it next year? > > > ~Kai > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49582	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Yes, double dose then regular -- as they recommend. :o) I have some Stress-Zyme in the cabinet. Will that do? And I assume I should begin the pro-biotics after the course of antibiotics? And no, I hadn't been monitoring these past couple of days but I will start now. Thanks! ~Kai > "Ray" wrote: > > Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated fish may excrete more waste material. > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will also remove the residual medications. > > Ray > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with "bad" well water... > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your neighbors > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Kai > > > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on > > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual > > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent > > > it next year? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49583	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Hey Ray, Thanks for the tip to monitor the water parameters. In 3 days the pH went from neutral to frighteningly acidic. I jumped right on that. Ammonia is up a little so I'll keep an eye on it before I react. Thanks again, ~Kai > Ray wrote: > > Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated fish may excrete more waste material. > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will also remove the residual medications. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with "bad" well water... > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your neighbors > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Kai > > > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on > > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual > > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent > > > it next year? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49584	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

I was thinking more along the lines of a product such as "Dr Tim's One and Only," even though it may be a bit more expensive. Stress-Zyme is said to be a biological filter additive having live bacteria, but you couldn't prove it by me. If this is all that's available to you though, you may try using it with continued close monitoring of your parameters, to be able to make additional PWC's should it become necessary. While I'm not saying specifically, that activated carbon will removed all the adverse contaminants in your "bad" well water, its purpose in filtering is to remove impurities so I would definitely give it a try. If you could pre-filter your water through carbon before it gets to your aquarium, so much the better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Yes, double dose then regular -- as they recommend. :o) > > I have some Stress-Zyme in the cabinet. Will that do? And I assume I should begin the pro-biotics after the course of antibiotics? > > And no, I hadn't been monitoring these past couple of days but I will start now. > > Thanks! > ~Kai > > > > > "Ray" wrote: > > > > Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated fish may excrete more waste material. > > > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will also remove the residual medications. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with "bad" well water... > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your neighbors > > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a > > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about > > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for > > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information > > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial > > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit > > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes > > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if > > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice > > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be > > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of > > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do > > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, > > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks > > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm > > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like > > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on > > > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after > > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual > > > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent > > > > it next year? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49585	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Stress-Zyme doesn't have the right bacteria to help boost your filter, but I don't think it would really hurt if you used it. It may not help at all though. The only one I know that's proven to have the right bacteria is Dr Tim's one and only. There's another product out there (I forget the name, shame on me, LOL), switched owners and I don't know if they changed anything in the ingredients... I'm guessing someone can help with the name of this other nitrifying bacteria product.... I hope so at least ;) LOL. Are you able to mix your water with RO or DI water? I think I saw someone else suggest this too. You'll have to be careful not to mix too much with your water, as it doesn't have any of the beneficial stuff in it like natural water does. You can also use all RO water and use a product such as Kent's RO Right, which adds the trace minerals and such back into the water, since RO removes these trace elements. Amber On 11/19/2010 5:51 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Yes, double dose then regular -- as they recommend. :o) > > I have some Stress-Zyme in the cabinet. Will that do? And I assume I > should begin the pro-biotics after the course of antibiotics? > > And no, I hadn't been monitoring these past couple of days but I will > start now. > > Thanks! > ~Kai > > > "Ray" wrote: > > > > Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a > double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other > thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an > adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the > recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to > the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. > Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated > fish may excrete more waste material. > > > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water > when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to > temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will > also remove the residual medications. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open > wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially > because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an > extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will be > treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The > Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese > Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past > middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food > but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their > antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial > water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with > "bad" well water... > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your > neighbors > > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would > call it a > > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources > at about > > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not > paying for > > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the > information > > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to > a bacterial > > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for > testing. Let it sit > > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note > any changes > > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see > what, if > > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough > to notice > > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any > difference could be > > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a > couple of > > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition > that we do > > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us > to measure, > > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. > It looks > > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change > bucket. I'm > > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae > killer like > > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're > "rubbing" on > > > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with > Maracyn-2 after > > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an > annual > > > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any > different...) > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I > might prevent > > > > it next year? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49586	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Would using a product such as zeolite (zeovit, zeobak, and zeofood are other products, but use all seem to use zeoliths to filter out stuff such as nitrate and phosphates) work better than carbon? Seems it would be worth a try to get some and prefilter the well water, and see if it removes enough so it's not green water anymore. Amber On 11/19/2010 8:29 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > I was thinking more along the lines of a product such as "Dr Tim's One > and Only," even though it may be a bit more expensive. Stress-Zyme is > said to be a biological filter additive having live bacteria, but you > couldn't prove it by me. If this is all that's available to you > though, you may try using it with continued close monitoring of your > parameters, to be able to make additional PWC's should it become > necessary. While I'm not saying specifically, that activated carbon > will removed all the adverse contaminants in your "bad" well water, > its purpose in filtering is to remove impurities so I would definitely > give it a try. If you could pre-filter your water through carbon > before it gets to your aquarium, so much the better. Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > > Yes, double dose then regular -- as they recommend. :o) > > > > I have some Stress-Zyme in the cabinet. Will that do? And I assume I > should begin the pro-biotics after the course of antibiotics? > > > > And no, I hadn't been monitoring these past couple of days but I > will start now. > > > > Thanks! > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > "Ray" wrote: > > > > > > Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a > double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other > thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an > adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the > recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to > the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > > > > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. > Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated > fish may excrete more waste material. > > > > > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water > when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to > temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will > also remove the residual medications. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open > wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially > because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an > extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will > be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The > Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese > Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past > middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food > but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their > antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial > water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with > "bad" well water... > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of > your neighbors > > > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would > call it a > > > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water > sources at about > > > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are > not paying for > > > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, > the information > > > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed > to a bacterial > > > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for > testing. Let it sit > > > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to > note any changes > > > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see > what, if > > > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough > to notice > > > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any > difference could be > > > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a > couple of > > > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition > that we do > > > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for > us to measure, > > > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last > week. It looks > > > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change > bucket. I'm > > > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > > > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae > killer like > > > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like > usual. > > > > > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're > "rubbing" on > > > > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with > Maracyn-2 after > > > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes > an annual > > > > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any > different...) > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I > might prevent > > > > > it next year? > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49587	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Kai, A slight acidic condition is nothing to be concerned about, although it does show an increase in biological filtration activity and its resultant increase in nitrate content accompanied by that product's added nitric acid influence. While I don't really know what you mean by "frighteningly," (you may be alarmed for no good reason), if the pH drop has been drastic -- to the point of dropping from your normal neutral 7.0, down to pH 6.4 (or lower?) -- it has done so over the period of several days during your treatment. You should not take drastic measures in reversing this pH drop abruptly, but bring it up more slowly to give the fish time to adjust to this change. Your PWC's you have planned should help in reducing this acidity especially if it is near neutral or above -- and if you KH is at least at a moderate level-- and may be all that's necessary to bring your pH back up to neutral more naturally after your ridding the tank of excess waste products in the water. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Hey Ray, > > Thanks for the tip to monitor the water parameters. In 3 days the pH went from neutral to frighteningly acidic. I jumped right on that. Ammonia is up a little so I'll keep an eye on it before I react. > > Thanks again, > ~Kai > > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated fish may excrete more waste material. > > > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will also remove the residual medications. > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with "bad" well water... > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your neighbors > > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a > > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about > > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for > > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information > > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial > > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit > > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes > > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if > > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice > > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be > > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of > > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do > > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, > > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks > > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm > > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like > > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on > > > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after > > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual > > > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent > > > > it next year? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49588	From: vickie	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: new over the side filter won't work

It's aFluval c3 Hang on Tank Five Stage Power Filter. I just got a used 30 gal. tank a month ago, so when I got stuff for it (2 weeks ago) I got a new filter. It worked fine until I cleaned it. Now it sucks water partway up the tube and that's it. I know it has to be level, and have tried MANY different positions. I stuck a small brush in the top of the motor to see if there was debris in there, but it seems good. The lower tube is clear. Can anyone help me fix it? Thanks in advance, Vickie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49589	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: new over the side filter won't work

Just get a jug of water and prefil the filter and keep pouring water in it until it comes up the tube, bren Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: vickie <nightowl10@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:47:55 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new over the side filter won't work It's aFluval c3 Hang on Tank Five Stage Power Filter. I just got a used 30 gal. tank a month ago, so when I got stuff for it (2 weeks ago) I got a new filter. It worked fine until I cleaned it. Now it sucks water partway up the tube and that's it. I know it has to be level, and have tried MANY different positions. I stuck a small brush in the top of the motor to see if there was debris in there, but it seems good. The lower tube is clear. Can anyone help me fix it? Thanks in advance, Vickie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49590	From: vickie	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: new over the side filter won't work

Thank you SO much! Worked like a charm!!!! I thought I broke something cleaning it, lol On 11/19/2010 1:56 PM, safirezprincess@... wrote: > > Just get a jug of water and prefil the filter and keep pouring water > in it until it comes up the tube, bren > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: vickie <nightowl10@... > <mailto:nightowl10%40columbus.rr.com>> > Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:47:55 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] new over the side filter won't work > > It's aFluval c3 Hang on Tank Five Stage Power Filter. I just got a used > 30 gal. tank a month ago, so when I got stuff for it (2 weeks ago) I got > a new filter. It worked fine until I cleaned it. Now it sucks water > partway up the tube and that's it. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49591	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

The water was neutral after the cleaning on the 16th. 3 days later, it had dropped to 6.0. Yes, really! Bright yellow in the test tube -- not even a hint of green. I'm inching it back up slowly. I'm in a little bit of a pickle. Tank conditions say I need to do more frequent PWCs in the near future. But my tap water might be the root of my problems. Buying bottled water is out of the question. Tomorrow evening will be the last dose of antibiotics. What do you think of this plan? I'll give it a day or two to do the last of its thing, then PWC on Monday and hope it doesn't reintroduce too much new bacteria. ~Kai > > Ray wrote: > > Kai, > > A slight acidic condition is nothing to be concerned about, although it does show an increase in biological filtration activity and its resultant increase in nitrate content accompanied by that product's added nitric acid influence. While I don't really know what you mean by "frighteningly," (you may be alarmed for no good reason), if the pH drop has been drastic -- to the point of dropping from your normal neutral 7.0, down to pH 6.4 (or lower?) -- it has done so over the period of several days during your treatment. You should not take drastic measures in reversing this pH drop abruptly, but bring it up more slowly to give the fish time to adjust to this change. Your PWC's you have planned should help in reducing this acidity especially if it is near neutral or above -- and if you KH is at least at a moderate level-- and may be all that's necessary to bring your pH back up to neutral more naturally after your ridding the tank of excess waste products in the water. > > Ray > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Hey Ray, > > > > Thanks for the tip to monitor the water parameters. In 3 days the pH went from neutral to frighteningly acidic. I jumped right on that. Ammonia is up a little so I'll keep an eye on it before I react. > > > > Thanks again, > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > > > Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > > > > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated fish may excrete more waste material. > > > > > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will also remove the residual medications. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with "bad" well water... > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your neighbors > > > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a > > > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about > > > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for > > > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information > > > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial > > > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit > > > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes > > > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if > > > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice > > > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be > > > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of > > > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do > > > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, > > > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. It looks > > > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket. I'm > > > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > > > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like > > > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on > > > > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after > > > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual > > > > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent > > > > > it next year? > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49592	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

The other product is BioSpira, also developed by Dr. Timothy Hovanec -- same as with Dr. Tim's One & Only -- but was originally produced by Dr. Hovanec when he was associated with Marineland. The latter product is more recent, produced by Dr. Honanec since his going on his own. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Stress-Zyme doesn't have the right bacteria to help boost your filter, > but I don't think it would really hurt if you used it. It may not help > at all though. > The only one I know that's proven to have the right bacteria is Dr Tim's > one and only. There's another product out there (I forget the name, > shame on me, LOL), switched owners and I don't know if they changed > anything in the ingredients... I'm guessing someone can help with the > name of this other nitrifying bacteria product.... I hope so at least ;) > LOL. > Are you able to mix your water with RO or DI water? I think I saw > someone else suggest this too. You'll have to be careful not to mix too > much with your water, as it doesn't have any of the beneficial stuff in > it like natural water does. You can also use all RO water and use a > product such as Kent's RO Right, which adds the trace minerals and such > back into the water, since RO removes these trace elements. > > Amber > > On 11/19/2010 5:51 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Yes, double dose then regular -- as they recommend. :o) > > > > I have some Stress-Zyme in the cabinet. Will that do? And I assume I > > should begin the pro-biotics after the course of antibiotics? > > > > And no, I hadn't been monitoring these past couple of days but I will > > start now. > > > > Thanks! > > ~Kai > > > > > "Ray" wrote: > > > > > > Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a > > double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other > > thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an > > adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the > > recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to > > the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > > > > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. > > Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated > > fish may excrete more waste material. > > > > > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water > > when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to > > temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will > > also remove the residual medications. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open > > wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially > > because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an > > extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will be > > treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The > > Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese > > Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past > > middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food > > but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their > > antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial > > water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with > > "bad" well water... > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your > > neighbors > > > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would > > call it a > > > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources > > at about > > > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not > > paying for > > > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the > > information > > > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to > > a bacterial > > > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for > > testing. Let it sit > > > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note > > any changes > > > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see > > what, if > > > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough > > to notice > > > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any > > difference could be > > > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a > > couple of > > > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition > > that we do > > > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us > > to measure, > > > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week. > > It looks > > > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change > > bucket. I'm > > > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > > > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae > > killer like > > > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're > > "rubbing" on > > > > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with > > Maracyn-2 after > > > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an > > annual > > > > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any > > different...) > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I > > might prevent > > > > > it next year? > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49593	From: bill 1433	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Remember one thing, you can't actually measure bacteria, unless you have the use of a microscope, a PWC with bad or high water readinags could really upset the apple cart.    I would check BOTH the water going into the tank and the water in the tank BEFORE you change it, if the difference is great enough, you may want to back up a bit.    Maybe I missed the past posting, how much water are we talking about and in what size tank?  Also I do know that just a while ago you were given excellent information about a product called the Poly Filter. This does work and I have used it here with my well water under similar conditions.  Leave us not forget that this is only a temporary cure, as already mentioned.  In the long run problems such as this require more equipment and planning out.  This is especially true if this is an annual or recurring type of problem with your water.     Bill --- On Fri, 11/19/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 3:20 PM The water was neutral after the cleaning on the 16th.  3 days later, it had dropped to 6.0.  Yes, really!  Bright yellow in the test tube -- not even a hint of green.  I'm inching it back up slowly. I'm in a little bit of a pickle.  Tank conditions say I need to do more frequent PWCs in the near future.  But my tap water might be the root of my problems.  Buying bottled water is out of the question. Tomorrow evening will be the last dose of antibiotics.  What do you think of this plan?  I'll give it a day or two to do the last of its thing, then PWC on Monday and hope it doesn't reintroduce too much new bacteria. ~Kai > > Ray wrote: > > Kai, > > A slight acidic condition is nothing to be concerned about, although it does show an increase in biological filtration activity and its resultant increase in nitrate content accompanied by that product's added nitric acid influence.  While I don't really know what you mean by "frighteningly," (you may be alarmed for no good reason), if the pH drop has been drastic -- to the point of dropping from your normal neutral 7.0, down to pH 6.4 (or lower?) -- it has done so over the period of several days during your treatment.  You should not take drastic measures in reversing this pH drop abruptly, but bring it up more slowly to give the fish time to adjust to this change.  Your PWC's you have planned should help in reducing this acidity especially if it is near neutral or above -- and if you KH is at least at a moderate level-- and may be all that's necessary to bring your pH back up to neutral more naturally after your ridding the tank of excess waste products in the water. > > Ray > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Hey Ray, > > > > Thanks for the tip to monitor the water parameters.  In 3 days the pH went from neutral to frighteningly acidic.  I jumped right on that.  Ammonia is up a little so I'll keep an eye on it before I react. > > > > Thanks again, > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > > > Kai,  As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?).  One other thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > > > > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment.  Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated fish may excrete more waste material.  > > > > > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will also remove the residual medications. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is.  None of us have open wells.  I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially because it's an annual event.  I don't know if it matters but we had an extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy."  This evening will be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2.  The water is still cloudy.  The Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot.  She's cruising past middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK.  I've offered them a little food but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their antibiotic treatment the same day.  When should I do my next partial water change?  Especially since I might be replacing treated water with "bad" well water... > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of your neighbors > > > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > We have our own well.  And we are lake-front -- though I would call it a > > > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water sources at about > > > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are not paying for > > > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, the information > > > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed to a bacterial > > > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for testing. Let it sit > > > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to note any changes > > > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see what, if > > > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough to notice > > > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any difference could be > > > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a couple of > > > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition that we do > > > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for us to measure, > > > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing changes.  Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last week.  It looks > > > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change bucket.  I'm > > > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon.  It's usually pea soup by > > > > > Thanksgiving.  And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae killer like > > > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up.  Back to crystal clear like usual. > > > > > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're "rubbing" on > > > > > the decor.  Septicemia?  I think so.  Started treatment with Maracyn-2 after > > > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes an annual > > > > > algae/bacteria bloom.  (Doesn't smell, look or taste any different...) > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I might prevent > > > > > it next year? > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49594	From: Ray	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

While Zeolite will remove nitrite, and PhosZorb will remove phosphate -- which will help get rid of any possible excesses of these unwanted agricultural run off compounds, my purpose in recommending the use of activated carbon is to remove any unknown "nasties" that are contributing in promoting this "earthy odor," and which appear to have some connection with the water quality at this time of year. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Would using a product such as zeolite (zeovit, zeobak, and zeofood are > other products, but use all seem to use zeoliths to filter out stuff > such as nitrate and phosphates) work better than carbon? Seems it would > be worth a try to get some and prefilter the well water, and see if it > removes enough so it's not green water anymore. > > Amber > > On 11/19/2010 8:29 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > I was thinking more along the lines of a product such as "Dr Tim's One > > and Only," even though it may be a bit more expensive. Stress-Zyme is > > said to be a biological filter additive having live bacteria, but you > > couldn't prove it by me. If this is all that's available to you > > though, you may try using it with continued close monitoring of your > > parameters, to be able to make additional PWC's should it become > > necessary. While I'm not saying specifically, that activated carbon > > will removed all the adverse contaminants in your "bad" well water, > > its purpose in filtering is to remove impurities so I would definitely > > give it a try. If you could pre-filter your water through carbon > > before it gets to your aquarium, so much the better. Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, double dose then regular -- as they recommend. :o) > > > > > > I have some Stress-Zyme in the cabinet. Will that do? And I assume I > > should begin the pro-biotics after the course of antibiotics? > > > > > > And no, I hadn't been monitoring these past couple of days but I > > will start now. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Ray" wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai, As for your treatment with Maracyn Two, I presume you used a > > double-dose fro the first treatment, as they recommend (?). One other > > thing, while Mardel states that none onf their medications have an > > adverse effect on nitrifying bacteria -- apparently even when the > > recommended double-dose is used -- they do recommend to add a boost to > > the biological filter afterwards, with the use of a bacterial additive. > > > > > > > > Have you been monitoring your water parameters during treatment. > > Madel again recommends this practice for their reasoning that treated > > fish may excrete more waste material. > > > > > > > > In an effort to remove as much impurities in this new "bad" water > > when doing your PWC at the end of treatment, it should be helpful to > > temporarily load your filter down with activated carbon, which will > > also remove the residual medications. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Shame on me, I don't know how deep it is. None of us have open > > wells. I suspect it has something to do with the lake -- especially > > because it's an annual event. I don't know if it matters but we had an > > extra-abundant crop of lake weed this year. > > > > > > > > > > Sniffing at my tank, it smells very "earthy." This evening will > > be treatment 4 (out of 5) of Maracyn-2. The water is still cloudy. The > > Tinfoils are still blotchy and poor Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese > > Upside Down Catfish) is huffing and puffing a lot. She's cruising past > > middle-aged so I hope she'll be OK. I've offered them a little food > > but they're not particularly hungry. > > > > > > > > > > My last tank maintenance was on the 16th and I began their > > antibiotic treatment the same day. When should I do my next partial > > water change? Especially since I might be replacing treated water with > > "bad" well water... > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, a well. Is it a deep or shallow well? Do you, or any of > > your neighbors > > > > > > have an open well? Do you have any knowledge of the aquifer? > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > We have our own well. And we are lake-front -- though I would > > call it a > > > > > > pond -- so a seasonal bacterial bloom is quite possible. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does your municipal water supply company change water > > sources at about > > > > > > this time every year? Perhaps for a short period? If you are > > not paying for > > > > > > your water (included in rent), then check out the web site, > > the information > > > > > > should be available there. The milky color can be attributed > > to a bacterial > > > > > > bloom, perhaps from pipes that have not been used for a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try setting aside a sample of fresh, treated water for > > testing. Let it sit > > > > > > for the duration between water changes and test it then to > > note any changes > > > > > > from it fresh from the addition of your water treatment to see > > what, if > > > > > > anything, has changed. The difference may not really be enough > > to notice > > > > > > once the new water has mixed with the tank water, or any > > difference could be > > > > > > attributed to a normal fluctuation, but is close enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My bet is that the source has changed, perhaps for just a > > couple of > > > > > > months, and the new water has a different chemical composition > > that we do > > > > > > not measure for--normally no need to--or is too expensive for > > us to measure, > > > > > > but can, and do, make a difference for the animals and plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This happens every November and I can't figure out how or why... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My fish get sick and the water gets cloudy, then pea soup green. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing changes. Not food, not maintenance, not anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water in my 55g started getting a little cloudy last > > week. It looks > > > > > > milky, hazy to the eye but greenish in my white water-change > > bucket. I'm > > > > > > sure that it's going to turn green soon. It's usually pea soup by > > > > > > Thanksgiving. And by Christmas, whether or not I use any algae > > killer like > > > > > > Acurel-F, it will have cleared up. Back to crystal clear like > > usual. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As every year, the tinfoils have red splotches and they're > > "rubbing" on > > > > > > the decor. Septicemia? I think so. Started treatment with > > Maracyn-2 after > > > > > > their routine water change yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 3 tests I have -- pH, nitrite and ammonia -- are all good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I can GUESS is that our well water undergoes > > an annual > > > > > > algae/bacteria bloom. (Doesn't smell, look or taste any > > different...) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any theories on why this happens and how I > > might prevent > > > > > > it next year? > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49595	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/19/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

I was not "blaming" anyone for anything, simply pointing out that these things do affect well water... at least in the agricultural area I live in. Well depths vary around the world, but anything that seeps into the ground can affect the water supply, even at 50 ft down. In the area where I live the well water chemistry changes every fall and every spring during the time the fields are fertilized and for a number of weeks after. There is nothing hysterical about it, it is common knowledge around here that this happens, especially if there is a lot of rain during that time. Municipal water supply also has a change in water chemistry at these times of the year due to the change in chemicals the city uses based on weather and season. Again, this varies around the world, different areas use different chemicals and at different amounts over the course of a year based on location and conditions, and even laws that require such things. Our local and state laws require municipalities to use a certain amount of chemicals that the government has deemed "safe" to kill bacteria and other nasties that get into the water supply from pollution, drought, floods, and yes, even farming practices etc. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor@...> wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 6:44 AM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your problem is actually quite common in climates where fall and winter bring major changes in weather, especially if you are using well water.  There are a great many things that alter water chemistry at various times of the year... drought, excess rain/flooding, etc.  If you live in an agricultural area then you also need to consider fertilizers that the farmers spread in the fields after the summer/fall harvest in preparation for winter and the coming spring planting season.  Run off from those fields will affect well water and the area affected can be quite wide range. > > I thought I might comment on this as this last response is coming > close to outright hysteria. > > If your well is so shallow that agricultural practices directly > influence you - - your well is too shallow. If you are drawing surface > water - - that is really not much of a well and I would be looking to > develop a good water source. Recommended practice here is that under > about 50 feet of depth (there is some variation depending upon exact > location) you are essentially using surface water (and its assorted > ills). It may be called a ´well'´ but it is not really sub-surface > water (which is what a well is supposed to be!). > > Then there is the way a well is accessed that can cause problems > (topography etc). > > So blaming your area farmers for your difficulties is like blaming the > birds that fly overhead for the same things - - there may be some > connection but there isn´t much! There is much more risk from your > septic system, your lawn (and the herbicides you use) and your > vehicles (drips/spills/emissions). > > Many areas in Alberta use surface ponds (usually called dugouts) for > water as sub-surface water is not very accessible or is of very low > quantity. > > Every fall and spring there is an inversion of the water in such a > system so I am quite aware of these difficulties - - but in a true > well - - that´s quite a stretch! > > Darald >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49596	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/20/2010
Subject: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium

This article is pretty sparse on information that you will really need, so just use it as a guideline, if you are interested in this kind of tank, and do your research before starting to put such a tank together. Then, you can tell us all about it! http://www.ehow.com/how_7506886_make-jellyfish-mood-aquarium.html http://tinyurl.com/2d4jrfd How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium By Jennifer Leighton, eHow Contributor updated: November 16, 2010 Jellyfish exist in over 200 varieties and are found in both saltwater and freshwater environments. Jellyfish exist in a variety of colors ranging from the palest of translucent whites to more vivid blue and pink hues. An experienced aquarist can create a jellyfish mood aquarium with a variety of jellyfish types of colors in their own home. However, jellyfish can be challenging to care for, so a jellyfish mood aquarium should be created with care and attention to detail. Difficulty: Challenging Instructions Things You'll Need: * Kriesel tank * Protein skimmer * Tank lighting * Saltwater or saltwater kit * Cycle starter kit 1. Purchase an appropriate tank. Jellyfish tanks are circular aquariums (kriesels) or custom-designed circular aquariums. A traditional rectangular tank does not provide the constant circular current flow that jellyfish need to stay suspended in the water. Doctors Foster and Smith's Live Aquaria website suggest a minimum tank size of 30 gallons. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49597	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/20/2010
Subject: Weird fish of the week: Two-headed arowana

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3381&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=November_19_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_of_the_week:_Two-headed_arowana&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2dehvb5 Weird fish of the week: Two-headed arowana This week's weird fish must surely go down in history as one of fishkeeping's most hideous 'creations'. First viewed by Practical Fishkeeping at Aquarama 2007 in Singapore, this poor Asian arowana, Scleropages formosus, hatched with two heads. If this ever happens in the wild the fry will not survive, yet with fry being artifically reared from eggs and fry that are hand stripped, this is not only a more common occurrence - it also means that the normally ill-fated fish can and do survive. --------<Continued at link w/picture>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49598	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2010
Subject: Strange new seahorse has no dorsal fin

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3368&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=November_19_2010&utm_term=Strange_new_seahorse_has_no_dorsal_fin&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/22t5ttt Strange new seahorse has no dorsal fin Copyright (c) Ralph Foster and Martin Gomon A unique new species of seahorse, Hippocampus paradoxus, has been described from Australia. It differs from all other known seahorses by having no dorsal fin. Instead it has a series of fleshy, fin-like lobes along the dorsal midline of the body and tail. Only one specimen, a female, is known. The fish was collected as long ago as 1995, by scientists researching bryozoans, and had lain in a museum collection ever since, until discovered recently by seahorse specialists examining the collection. The specimen was collected to the south west of Esperance in Western Australia, on the extreme western edge of the Great Australian Bight. Because it was collected during scientific research, some details are available of the site: a coarse substrate of calcareous sand populated by a varied mix of bryozoans, including Adeona, a number of bushy flexible species (Family Catenicellidae), "lace corals" (Phidoloporidae), and a number of sponges. The site lies on the midcontinental shelf at a depth of 102 metres, and is one of numerous "islands" of sponges and bryozoans found on the expanses of rippled sand created by wave action. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49599	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/21/2010
Subject: Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium

I just read the article from the link listed here and found it to be VERY misleading. The article makes it sound as if a person can just set everything up and add animals the same day... which would bring dead animals and a huge mess. There is no mention that not all jellyfish species are suited for aquarium life, no mention of feeding the jellyfish, and I'm not sure what was meant by a skimmer removing too much from the water...??? that actually made me laugh. I could go on and thoroughly pick this article apart, but that seems a waste of time. What's most important is that for anyone reading this article, please know... keeping jellyfish (of a suitable species) is not as easy as that article makes it appear. They are a lot of work and even zoos and public aquariums have difficulty in keeping most species alive for any amount of time. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > This article is pretty sparse on information that you will really need, so just use it as a guideline, if you are interested in this kind of tank, and do your research before starting to put such a tank together. Then, you can tell us all about it! > > http://www.ehow.com/how_7506886_make-jellyfish-mood-aquarium.html > http://tinyurl.com/2d4jrfd > > How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium > By Jennifer Leighton, eHow Contributor > updated: November 16, 2010 > > Jellyfish exist in over 200 varieties and are found in both saltwater and freshwater environments. > > Jellyfish exist in a variety of colors ranging from the palest of translucent whites to more vivid blue and pink hues. An experienced aquarist can create a jellyfish mood aquarium with a variety of jellyfish types of colors in their own home. However, jellyfish can be challenging to care for, so a jellyfish mood aquarium should be created with care and attention to detail. > > Difficulty: Challenging > > Instructions > > Things You'll Need: > > * Kriesel tank > * Protein skimmer > * Tank lighting > * Saltwater or saltwater kit > * Cycle starter kit > > 1. Purchase an appropriate tank. Jellyfish tanks are circular aquariums (kriesels) or custom-designed circular aquariums. A traditional rectangular tank does not provide the constant circular current flow that jellyfish need to stay suspended in the water. Doctors Foster and Smith's Live Aquaria website suggest a minimum tank size of 30 gallons. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49600	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/21/2010
Subject: Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium

Hence the warning I gave before giving the link. Before you start anything in this hobby, research, research, research. If you don't understand something ask questions until you find an answer. Then proceed. Dawn, did you also flag the article? (Not thinking that it would be taken down.) \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dawnshungryeyes4u2c Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium I just read the article from the link listed here and found it to be VERY misleading. The article makes it sound as if a person can just set everything up and add animals the same day... which would bring dead animals and a huge mess. There is no mention that not all jellyfish species are suited for aquarium life, no mention of feeding the jellyfish, and I'm not sure what was meant by a skimmer removing too much from the water...??? that actually made me laugh. I could go on and thoroughly pick this article apart, but that seems a waste of time. What's most important is that for anyone reading this article, please know... keeping jellyfish (of a suitable species) is not as easy as that article makes it appear. They are a lot of work and even zoos and public aquariums have difficulty in keeping most species alive for any amount of time. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: > > This article is pretty sparse on information that you will really need, so just use it as a guideline, if you are interested in this kind of tank, and do your research before starting to put such a tank together. Then, you can tell us all about it! > > http://www.ehow.com/how_7506886_make-jellyfish-mood-aquarium.html > http://tinyurl.com/2d4jrfd > > How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium > By Jennifer Leighton, eHow Contributor > updated: November 16, 2010 > > Jellyfish exist in over 200 varieties and are found in both saltwater and freshwater environments. > > Jellyfish exist in a variety of colors ranging from the palest of translucent whites to more vivid blue and pink hues. An experienced aquarist can create a jellyfish mood aquarium with a variety of jellyfish types of colors in their own home. However, jellyfish can be challenging to care for, so a jellyfish mood aquarium should be created with care and attention to detail. > > Difficulty: Challenging > > Instructions > > Things You'll Need: > > * Kriesel tank > * Protein skimmer > * Tank lighting > * Saltwater or saltwater kit > * Cycle starter kit > > 1. Purchase an appropriate tank. Jellyfish tanks are circular aquariums (kriesels) or custom-designed circular aquariums. A traditional rectangular tank does not provide the constant circular current flow that jellyfish need to stay suspended in the water. Doctors Foster and Smith's Live Aquaria website suggest a minimum tank size of 30 gallons. > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > \\Steve// >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49601	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium

*WE* know that fish are not instant pets -- that we can't just fill a tank with water and toss fish in to live happily ever after. Fortunately, the article rates jellyfish-keeping as "challenging" but there will still be some who will try blindly and fail. Just think of all the thousands who do the same with (shudder) plunking a goldfish in a bowl for Junior. Theoretically and hopefully, the salesperson at the LFS will question what the customer intends to do and advise him properly as to how to proceed successfully instead of just "making the sale." Someone (here?) sagely said, "In order to be a keeper of fish, you must first be a keeper of water." Wise words. And then there's a whole lot more to it than we ever imagined. ~Kai > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > Hence the warning I gave before giving the link. Before you start anything in this hobby, research, research, research. If you don't understand something ask questions until you find an answer. Then proceed. > > Dawn, did you also flag the article? (Not thinking that it would be taken down.) > > \\Steve// > > > Dawn wrote: > > I just read the article from the link listed here and found it to be VERY misleading. The article makes it sound as if a person can just set everything up and add animals the same day... which would bring dead animals and a huge mess. There is no mention that not all jellyfish species are suited for aquarium life, no mention of feeding the jellyfish, and I'm not sure what was meant by a skimmer removing too much from the water...??? that actually made me laugh. > > I could go on and thoroughly pick this article apart, but that seems a waste of time. What's most important is that for anyone reading this article, please know... keeping jellyfish (of a suitable species) is not as easy as that article makes it appear. They are a lot of work and even zoos and public aquariums have difficulty in keeping most species alive for any amount of time. > > Dawn > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > This article is pretty sparse on information that you will really need, so just use it as a guideline, if you are interested in this kind of tank, and do your research before starting to put such a tank together. Then, you can tell us all about it! > > > > http://www.ehow.com/how_7506886_make-jellyfish-mood-aquarium.html > > http://tinyurl.com/2d4jrfd > > > > How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium > > By Jennifer Leighton, eHow Contributor > > updated: November 16, 2010 > > > > Jellyfish exist in over 200 varieties and are found in both saltwater and freshwater environments. > > > > Jellyfish exist in a variety of colors ranging from the palest of translucent whites to more vivid blue and pink hues. An experienced aquarist can create a jellyfish mood aquarium with a variety of jellyfish types of colors in their own home. However, jellyfish can be challenging to care for, so a jellyfish mood aquarium should be created with care and attention to detail. > > > > Difficulty: Challenging > > > > Instructions > > > > Things You'll Need: > > > > * Kriesel tank > > * Protein skimmer > > * Tank lighting > > * Saltwater or saltwater kit > > * Cycle starter kit > > > > 1. Purchase an appropriate tank. Jellyfish tanks are circular aquariums (kriesels) or custom-designed circular aquariums. A traditional rectangular tank does not provide the constant circular current flow that jellyfish need to stay suspended in the water. Doctors Foster and Smith's Live Aquaria website suggest a minimum tank size of 30 gallons. > > > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49602	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

An Update: Nessie the Tank Monster (Burmese Upside Down Catfish) seemed to be in quite a bit of distress on Saturday so I pushed the PWC that I'd planned for Monday up to that evening. Good thing I did. Things improved greatly. That implies that whatever was going on in my well has subsided. Nessie is much better and so are the Tinfoils. Even though they are still blotchy, they are not as lethargic as they were and they have eaten -- albeit sparsely. (I haven't offered them much either.) The water is still cloudy, but I think that's residual milkiness. I don't want to put fresh carbon yet -- in case I need to re-medicate with antibiotics. You betcha I'll be keeping an eye on the parameters and adjusting accordingly. With Thanksgiving approaching, I'd like to say that I'm very grateful for all the open-hearted advice and support here on this Group. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and expertise. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49603	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions

Hey All!! I just joined this group today... hoping that there are some active members... Anyways, I've had fishtanks (fresh and saltwater) for about 10 years now on and off. Currently I'm converting a 46 gallon bowfront tank from an unplanted community tank to a more speciallized, fully planted tank. I have had several different planted tanks but most of my tanks have been 10gallons and at one point had a 30 gallon with a breeding pair of Convict Cichlids in it (not real planted though!!). I'd like to set it up as I have with several of my 10gallon tanks and only have a light and probably a heater in it. I have successfully had several 10gallon tanks like that but I don't even know if its possible to do this with a 46gallon. Hopefully I can though! Currently there is a clown barb and a scissortail rasbora in the tank (the only survivors of a fairly massive tank overhaul - plastic-y coating on the top of the water for some reason). I also recently purchased some Java Moss and a nice Java Fern (about three inches long) and have both of them stuck in/around two nice big pieces of driftwood. I also replaced the light bulb in the tank with bulbs specifically for a planted aquarium. Now, I know that I'll probably have to wait for a little while before I add fish or plan to run a filter for a little while but my big question is, should I pull the undergravel filter that is there and replace it with a hang-on-the-back type filter (I have one in storage) or can I leave the undergravel filter? The biggest reason that I want to have NO filter is that it is my mom's tank and the powerheads are going bad (starting to rattle). I personally prefer hang on the back filters but whatever... I'm thinking that once I get the tank settled I'll put in 2-3 schools of small fish (tetras, danios, etc) and get around 2 dozen total fish in there along with some snails. I'll also be adding more plants (Najas guadalupensis - Guppy Grass) and some taller stuff as I find it. Anyone see any problems with what I'm thinking of?? Any suggestions, additions, "ain't gonna works" etc?? Suggestions on types of fish?? I'm probably going to get 3-4 small Cory cats for my bottom feeders along with the snails... Thanks for any tips and sorry this is so long!! Lauren [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49604	From: john Lewis	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions

Hello:� � Welcome to the group.� There are lots of very Knowledgeable people here and posting is quite active. � Have a Great Day!!! � Spawn ________________________________ From: Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 2:19:40 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New Member, Intro and a couple Questions � Hey All!! I just joined this group today... hoping that there are some active members... Anyways, I've had fishtanks (fresh and saltwater) for about 10 years now on and off. Currently I'm converting a 46 gallon bowfront tank from an unplanted community tank to a more speciallized, fully planted tank. I have had several different planted tanks but most of my tanks have been 10 gallons and at one point had a 30 gallon with a breeding pair of Convict Cichlids in it (not real planted though!!). I'd like to set it up as I have with several of my 10 gallon tanks and only have a light and probably a heater in it. I have successfully had several 10gallon tanks like that but I don't even know if its possible to do this with a 46 gallon. Hopefully I can though! Currently there is a clown barb and a scissortail rasbora in the tank (the only survivors of a fairly massive tank overhaul - plastic-y coating on the top of the water for some reason). I also recently purchased some Java Moss and a nice Java Fern (about three inches long) and have both of them stuck in/around two nice big pieces of driftwood. I also replaced the light bulb in the tank with bulbs specifically for a planted aquarium. Now, I know that I'll probably have to wait for a little while before I add fish or plan to run a filter for a little while but my big question is, should I pull the undergravel filter that is there and replace it with a hang-on-the-back type filter (I have one in storage) or can I leave the undergravel filter? The biggest reason that I want to have NO filter is that it is my mom's tank and the powerheads are going bad (starting to rattle). I personally prefer hang on the back filters but whatever... I'm thinking that once I get the tank settled I'll put in 2-3 schools of small fish (tetras, danios, etc) and get around 2 dozen total fish in there along with some snails. I'll also be adding more plants (Najas guadalupensis - Guppy Grass) and some taller stuff as I find it. Anyone see any problems with what I'm thinking of?? Any suggestions, additions, "ain't gonna works" etc?? Suggestions on types of fish?? I'm probably going to get 3-4 small Cory cats for my bottom feeders along with the snails... Thanks for any tips and sorry this is so long!! Lauren [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49605	From: Bren Linny	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions

Lauren welcome! This is a group with a fair amount of activity and always a response. I like all your tanks and ideas. You remind me of what my house was like about 5 yrs ago. It looked like a fish store in here. To do a filterless tank you would need a large tank, Floating surface plants,midwater column plants and planted in the gravel ones. Even if you had all kinds of plants w/ snails,algae eaters,and bottom feeders, there is a lot of waste produced even by a small school of fish. Be sure to start with a well cycled tank and get a test kit for ammonia nitrates,etc. I did a "filterless" tank once with a nice amount of gravel that was well cycled and had a bubbler stick under the gravel, but only kept 2-3 small fish in it and had golden asian clams in it keeping the water clear. There were a gazillion snails and glass shrimp eating all the waste and scant leftovers of the food I supplied. Plan on a lot of pwc to keep the parameters in healthy range. Have fun and keep us posted Bren On Mon Nov 22nd, 2010 2:19 PM EST Lauren Moore wrote: >Hey All!! I just joined this group today... hoping that there are some >active members... > >Anyways, I've had fishtanks (fresh and saltwater) for about 10 years now on >and off. Currently I'm converting a 46 gallon bowfront tank from an >unplanted community tank to a more speciallized, fully planted tank. I have >had several different planted tanks but most of my tanks have been 10gallons >and at one point had a 30 gallon with a breeding pair of Convict Cichlids in >it (not real planted though!!). > >I'd like to set it up as I have with several of my 10gallon tanks and only >have a light and probably a heater in it. I have successfully had several >10gallon tanks like that but I don't even know if its possible to do this >with a 46gallon. Hopefully I can though! > >Currently there is a clown barb and a scissortail rasbora in the tank (the >only survivors of a fairly massive tank overhaul - plastic-y coating on the >top of the water for some reason). I also recently purchased some Java Moss >and a nice Java Fern (about three inches long) and have both of them stuck >in/around two nice big pieces of driftwood. I also replaced the light bulb >in the tank with bulbs specifically for a planted aquarium. > >Now, I know that I'll probably have to wait for a little while before I add >fish or plan to run a filter for a little while but my big question is, >should I pull the undergravel filter that is there and replace it with a >hang-on-the-back type filter (I have one in storage) or can I leave the >undergravel filter? The biggest reason that I want to have NO filter is that >it is my mom's tank and the powerheads are going bad (starting to rattle). >I personally prefer hang on the back filters but whatever... > >I'm thinking that once I get the tank settled I'll put in 2-3 schools of >small fish (tetras, danios, etc) and get around 2 dozen total fish in there >along with some snails. I'll also be adding more plants (Najas guadalupensis >- Guppy Grass) and some taller stuff as I find it. > >Anyone see any problems with what I'm thinking of?? Any suggestions, >additions, "ain't gonna works" etc?? Suggestions on types of fish?? I'm >probably going to get 3-4 small Cory cats for my bottom feeders along with >the snails... > >Thanks for any tips and sorry this is so long!! > >Lauren > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49606	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium

Just the cost of the tank and equipment should be enough to make most people think twice about plunging in. I do not know what the market price is on jellyfish, but, I would suspect that that would enough to also make a person take pause. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 8:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium *WE* know that fish are not instant pets -- that we can't just fill a tank with water and toss fish in to live happily ever after. Fortunately, the article rates jellyfish-keeping as "challenging" but there will still be some who will try blindly and fail. Just think of all the thousands who do the same with (shudder) plunking a goldfish in a bowl for Junior. Theoretically and hopefully, the salesperson at the LFS will question what the customer intends to do and advise him properly as to how to proceed successfully instead of just "making the sale." Someone (here?) sagely said, "In order to be a keeper of fish, you must first be a keeper of water." Wise words. And then there's a whole lot more to it than we ever imagined. ~Kai > "Steve Szabo" wrote: > > Hence the warning I gave before giving the link. Before you start anything in this hobby, research, research, research. If you don't understand something ask questions until you find an answer. Then proceed. > > Dawn, did you also flag the article? (Not thinking that it would be taken down.) > > \\Steve// > > > Dawn wrote: > > I just read the article from the link listed here and found it to be VERY misleading. The article makes it sound as if a person can just set everything up and add animals the same day... which would bring dead animals and a huge mess. There is no mention that not all jellyfish species are suited for aquarium life, no mention of feeding the jellyfish, and I'm not sure what was meant by a skimmer removing too much from the water...??? that actually made me laugh. > > I could go on and thoroughly pick this article apart, but that seems a waste of time. What's most important is that for anyone reading this article, please know... keeping jellyfish (of a suitable species) is not as easy as that article makes it appear. They are a lot of work and even zoos and public aquariums have difficulty in keeping most species alive for any amount of time. > > Dawn > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > This article is pretty sparse on information that you will really need, so just use it as a guideline, if you are interested in this kind of tank, and do your research before starting to put such a tank together. Then, you can tell us all about it! > > > > http://www.ehow.com/how_7506886_make-jellyfish-mood-aquarium.html > > http://tinyurl.com/2d4jrfd > > > > How to Make a Jellyfish Mood Aquarium > > By Jennifer Leighton, eHow Contributor > > updated: November 16, 2010 > > > > Jellyfish exist in over 200 varieties and are found in both saltwater and freshwater environments. > > > > Jellyfish exist in a variety of colors ranging from the palest of translucent whites to more vivid blue and pink hues. An experienced aquarist can create a jellyfish mood aquarium with a variety of jellyfish types of colors in their own home. However, jellyfish can be challenging to care for, so a jellyfish mood aquarium should be created with care and attention to detail. > > > > Difficulty: Challenging > > > > Instructions > > > > Things You'll Need: > > > > * Kriesel tank > > * Protein skimmer > > * Tank lighting > > * Saltwater or saltwater kit > > * Cycle starter kit > > > > 1. Purchase an appropriate tank. Jellyfish tanks are circular aquariums (kriesels) or custom-designed circular aquariums. A traditional rectangular tank does not provide the constant circular current flow that jellyfish need to stay suspended in the water. Doctors Foster and Smith's Live Aquaria website suggest a minimum tank size of 30 gallons. > > > > --------<Continued at link>-------- > > > > \\Steve// > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49607	From: haecklers	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions

Are you sure the powerhead isn't just dirty? Mine sounds like that when it gets a bit of sand in it. Then I have to take it apart and clean out all the parts. For the schooling fish, friends say that neon tetras aren't so great - they tend to hide in the plants and you never see them. Rummynose tetras are awesome, tho. If you want a real planted tank, you need some sort of substrate to feed the roots, like fluorite, laterite, or clay covered with sand (if you can empty the tank to get it in). Other options for keeping the floor clean are the smaller loaches or shrimp, which are pretty interesting in the tank. I have a variety of crypts now that I just love, and also apongetons I got as part of a "betta bulbs" set. They've grown huge and are blooming right now. These all grow well in limited light and no CO2 system. Have you read Diana Walstad's book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium"? Great stuff! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > Hey All!! I just joined this group today... hoping that there are some > active members... > > Anyways, I've had fishtanks (fresh and saltwater) for about 10 years now on > and off. Currently I'm converting a 46 gallon bowfront tank from an > unplanted community tank to a more speciallized, fully planted tank. I have > had several different planted tanks but most of my tanks have been 10gallons > and at one point had a 30 gallon with a breeding pair of Convict Cichlids in > it (not real planted though!!). > > I'd like to set it up as I have with several of my 10gallon tanks and only > have a light and probably a heater in it. I have successfully had several > 10gallon tanks like that but I don't even know if its possible to do this > with a 46gallon. Hopefully I can though! > > Currently there is a clown barb and a scissortail rasbora in the tank (the > only survivors of a fairly massive tank overhaul - plastic-y coating on the > top of the water for some reason). I also recently purchased some Java Moss > and a nice Java Fern (about three inches long) and have both of them stuck > in/around two nice big pieces of driftwood. I also replaced the light bulb > in the tank with bulbs specifically for a planted aquarium. > > Now, I know that I'll probably have to wait for a little while before I add > fish or plan to run a filter for a little while but my big question is, > should I pull the undergravel filter that is there and replace it with a > hang-on-the-back type filter (I have one in storage) or can I leave the > undergravel filter? The biggest reason that I want to have NO filter is that > it is my mom's tank and the powerheads are going bad (starting to rattle). > I personally prefer hang on the back filters but whatever... > > I'm thinking that once I get the tank settled I'll put in 2-3 schools of > small fish (tetras, danios, etc) and get around 2 dozen total fish in there > along with some snails. I'll also be adding more plants (Najas guadalupensis > - Guppy Grass) and some taller stuff as I find it. > > Anyone see any problems with what I'm thinking of?? Any suggestions, > additions, "ain't gonna works" etc?? Suggestions on types of fish?? I'm > probably going to get 3-4 small Cory cats for my bottom feeders along with > the snails... > > Thanks for any tips and sorry this is so long!! > > Lauren > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49608	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions

Hmmm... Sooo assume I keep the filter... better to have undergravel or hang on the back? I've attempted to google pros and cons of each but haven't really come up with a whole lot... I'll keep looking though... Thanks!! Looking forward to getting to know ya'all!!! Lauren On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Bren Linny <safirezprincess@...>wrote: > > > Lauren welcome! This is a group with a fair amount of activity and always a > response. I like all your tanks and ideas. > You remind me of what my house was like about 5 yrs ago. It looked like a > fish store in here. > To do a filterless tank you would need a large tank, > Floating surface plants,midwater column plants and planted in the gravel > ones. Even if you had all kinds of plants w/ snails,algae eaters,and bottom > feeders, there is a lot of waste produced even by a small school of fish. Be > sure to start with a well cycled tank and get a test kit for ammonia > nitrates,etc. > I did a "filterless" tank once with a nice amount of gravel that was well > cycled and had a bubbler stick under the gravel, but only kept 2-3 small > fish in it and had golden asian clams in it keeping the water clear. There > were a gazillion snails and glass shrimp eating all the waste and scant > leftovers of the food I supplied. Plan on a lot of pwc to keep the > parameters in healthy range. Have fun and keep us posted > Bren > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49609	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions

I will look into that book as well as different substrates... I'll look into taking apart the powerheads as well... Lauren On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 7:21 PM, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: > > > Are you sure the powerhead isn't just dirty? Mine sounds like that when it > gets a bit of sand in it. Then I have to take it apart and clean out all the > parts. > > For the schooling fish, friends say that neon tetras aren't so great - they > tend to hide in the plants and you never see them. Rummynose tetras are > awesome, tho. > > If you want a real planted tank, you need some sort of substrate to feed > the roots, like fluorite, laterite, or clay covered with sand (if you can > empty the tank to get it in). > > Other options for keeping the floor clean are the smaller loaches or > shrimp, which are pretty interesting in the tank. > > I have a variety of crypts now that I just love, and also apongetons I got > as part of a "betta bulbs" set. They've grown huge and are blooming right > now. These all grow well in limited light and no CO2 system. > > Have you read Diana Walstad's book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium"? Great > stuff! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49610	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/22/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions

Since you seem to be more comfortable with an external filter, and the power heads may be failing, go with the external. Nobody's going to shoot you or hold a gun to your head until you decide to stay with an UGF. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lauren Moore Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 7:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New Member, Intro and a couple Questions Hmmm... Sooo assume I keep the filter... better to have undergravel or hang on the back? I've attempted to google pros and cons of each but haven't really come up with a whole lot... I'll keep looking though... Thanks!! Looking forward to getting to know ya'all!!! Lauren On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Bren Linny <safirezprincess@...>wrote: > > > Lauren welcome! This is a group with a fair amount of activity and always a > response. I like all your tanks and ideas. > You remind me of what my house was like about 5 yrs ago. It looked like a > fish store in here. > To do a filterless tank you would need a large tank, > Floating surface plants,midwater column plants and planted in the gravel > ones. Even if you had all kinds of plants w/ snails,algae eaters,and bottom > feeders, there is a lot of waste produced even by a small school of fish. Be > sure to start with a well cycled tank and get a test kit for ammonia > nitrates,etc. > I did a "filterless" tank once with a nice amount of gravel that was well > cycled and had a bubbler stick under the gravel, but only kept 2-3 small > fish in it and had golden asian clams in it keeping the water clear. There > were a gazillion snails and glass shrimp eating all the waste and scant > leftovers of the food I supplied. Plan on a lot of pwc to keep the > parameters in healthy range. Have fun and keep us posted > Bren >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49611	From: haecklers	Date: 11/23/2010
Subject: Re: New Member, Intro and a couple Questions

A lot of the planted aquarium stuff I've read says you don't want to go with undergravel with plants. The roots jam it up and you can't clean it out without messing up the plants. I have sponge filters and love them, also one of those over the side/waterfall types, it's ok. I had to put a sponge on the intake to prevent it sucking up the fry in that tank, so I guess it's functioning as a sponge filter too! LOL! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > Hmmm... Sooo assume I keep the filter... better to have undergravel or hang > on the back? I've attempted to google pros and cons of each but haven't > really come up with a whole lot... I'll keep looking though... > > Thanks!! Looking forward to getting to know ya'all!!! > > Lauren > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Bren Linny <safirezprincess@...>wrote: > > > > > > > Lauren welcome! This is a group with a fair amount of activity and always a > > response. I like all your tanks and ideas. > > You remind me of what my house was like about 5 yrs ago. It looked like a > > fish store in here. > > To do a filterless tank you would need a large tank, > > Floating surface plants,midwater column plants and planted in the gravel > > ones. Even if you had all kinds of plants w/ snails,algae eaters,and bottom > > feeders, there is a lot of waste produced even by a small school of fish. Be > > sure to start with a well cycled tank and get a test kit for ammonia > > nitrates,etc. > > I did a "filterless" tank once with a nice amount of gravel that was well > > cycled and had a bubbler stick under the gravel, but only kept 2-3 small > > fish in it and had golden asian clams in it keeping the water clear. There > > were a gazillion snails and glass shrimp eating all the waste and scant > > leftovers of the food I supplied. Plan on a lot of pwc to keep the > > parameters in healthy range. Have fun and keep us posted > > Bren > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49612	From: Noura	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: AquaClear replacement question

Hi everyone, After a long waiting, I got the Aquaclear 30 HOB filter from the US for my 20g community tank (hopefully will become a 25-30g next year), a friend who was visiting got it for me. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the voltage difference between my country and the US, it's 220 V here. So the filter worked for a few minutes then became dead L Any suggestion about the best way to get a motor unit replacement (cheap and fast)? A friend of mine is going to USA in a few days, don't know to which state she's going. And, do you suggest to get any other replacement parts, parts that usually get worn out easily in this particular filter model? I already got a pack of sponge replacement with the filter (3 pcs). I also got the API freshwater master test kit, so I'm somehow on board now! Thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49613	From: Ray	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question

Hi Noura, Sorry to hear you burnt out your filter motor, but I'm glad to see you were able to get this filter through a friend who was visiting you. The easiest way to obtain replacement parts for these filters here in the States is by having your friend order them from a reputable local fish store when she gets back here. They'll then send for and get these parts in stock for her, or they may be able to get them right from their local dry goods wholesaler. She may be required to give a down payment/deposit on the parts as a show of good faith that she'll pick them up when they come in. One other way would be to oder them from a reputable on-line (internet) aquarium supplier such as Drs Foster & Smith, but then, there is a US $8.99 shipping charge for them to send them to your friend. Your friend would have to compare the prices that the local fish store would charge against the prices of Drs Foster & Smith + their shipping charge to see what's more reasonable. You would need the Motor (Hagen Part # A-16000) for your Model 30/150 (Drs. Foster & Smith price -- US $16.99). Other parts that you may want to consider, while you're ordering are: (1) An Impeller (Hagen Part # A-632) for Pump Model 30/150 (Drs Foster & Smith price -- US $10.49) and (2) possibly a Filter Extension Tube for a taller tank, for your Model 30/150 (if you don't already have one); Hagen Part # 625 -- (Drs Foster & Smith price -- US $3.99). As these three parts would total US $31.97 (from Drs Foster & Smith) without the shipping charge, you may want to buy the entire filter to replace yours, whivch Drs Foster & Smith charges US $33.99 for (+ shipping charge -- to anywhere within the States). This way you would even have an extra filter box, and you could use your present Aquaclear 30 for other replacement parts. OR, just order the motor, at US $16.99 (about half the cost of a new filter). I'm surprised that you were able to plug this into your electrical outlet, using the filters plug. Usually, different electrical current outlets are different which would have normally prevented such an accident. I don't knows how your electric wiring to your house is configured, but most houses here in the States get 220 volts -- as two individual 110 volt wires -- to their main electrical/circuit breaker boxes, wehere it is split up into 110 volts unless an appliance (like an electrical clothes dryer or stove) requires the full 220 volts. You may want to have an electrician run just one of your 110 volt lines to near your aquarium, if it's being delivered the same as it is in the Staes, so that you can use these US made aquarium accessories. Ray elivered right to their electrical fuse boxes where it i ---In AquaticLife, n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > After a long waiting, I got the Aquaclear 30 HOB filter from the US for my > 20g community tank (hopefully will become a 25-30g next year), a friend who > was visiting got it for me. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the voltage > difference between my country and the US, it's 220 V here. So the filter > worked for a few minutes then became dead L > > > > Any suggestion about the best way to get a motor unit replacement (cheap and > fast)? A friend of mine is going to USA in a few days, don't know to which > state she's going. > > And, do you suggest to get any other replacement parts, parts that usually > get worn out easily in this particular filter model? I already got a pack of > sponge replacement with the filter (3 pcs). > > > > I also got the API freshwater master test kit, so I'm somehow on board now! > > > > Thanks, > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49614	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question

Noura, It seems that Hagen does not have the equivalent filter in a 220V model for you. What you need to do is to have your friend pick up a new motor for you, part # A-16000, and a power converter. For a 220V to 120V unit, I saw a low price of $8 on line in a quick search. You should probably do your own research on this, and find a model that can handle several items, should you again find yourself having a 120V part in your 220V country. Your friend may have to do a bit of searching, no matter where she is, to find the proper converter for you. This is not an item that is carried in your local neighborhood hardware or electrical supply store here. A larger computer store may be a good place to start looking. If she is going to have a stable address while she is here, you may be able to order it online, and have it delivered to her address here for you so she can bring it back to you. Just watch, as I am sure you are aware, the shipping charges, which often negate any savings from buying online. Thanks for the interesting diversion this morning, and now it is time to tune into the parade, which seems to get worse each year. I just wish they would show the parade and not take all the side trips with all the celebrities that just "happen" to be there. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 4:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] AquaClear replacement question Hi everyone, After a long waiting, I got the Aquaclear 30 HOB filter from the US for my 20g community tank (hopefully will become a 25-30g next year), a friend who was visiting got it for me. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the voltage difference between my country and the US, it's 220 V here. So the filter worked for a few minutes then became dead L Any suggestion about the best way to get a motor unit replacement (cheap and fast)? A friend of mine is going to USA in a few days, don't know to which state she's going. And, do you suggest to get any other replacement parts, parts that usually get worn out easily in this particular filter model? I already got a pack of sponge replacement with the filter (3 pcs). I also got the API freshwater master test kit, so I'm somehow on board now! Thanks, Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49615	From: Ray	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

[:)] Wishing All Of You A Very Happy Thanksgiving Ray [:)] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49616	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Breeding Cichlids?

Hey All!! I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd like to breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are small enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a filter, heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes through the window but no direct light). I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are small enough to breed in a 10g. Thanks for any input!! Lauren [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49617	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

Hi Lauren, Ten gallons is definitely on the small side. Look in to some shell dwellers. Neloamprologus similis, multifasciatus, Stappersi(meleagris), Brevis. Or Ocellatus. A pair of Pelvicachromis maybe? Apistogrammas, a pair of German Rams perhaps. Lenny if he is still around has a recipe for ten gallon tank inhabitants. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Nov 25, 2010 2:06 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Cichlids? Hey All!! I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd like to breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are small enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a filter, heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes through the window but no direct light). I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are small enough to breed in a 10g. Thanks for any input!! Lauren [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49618	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question

My husband had the same issue to deal with when he lived in Australia yrs ago. He said to let you know that you can go to a local hardware store and find a power converter, 220 to 110 voltage, which should avoid that from happening again. The Aquaclear filters are designed to be run on 110 voltage. The other part(s) you may want to invest in extras for that filter would be a spare impeller or 2. Over time they wear, get mucked up, and the shaft inside can bend. Spare impellers is something I always try to keep on hand for any filter I run. They are not overly expensive but having a spare on hand can save a lot of hassle when the time comes you need one. If you have hard water it is a good idea to remove the impeller regularly (I try to do it monthly or more) to clean it manually to avoid mineral deposit build up, which will quickly destroy an impeller. (I use a toothbrush to clean mine, but it should be a new, unused toothbrush that is only used for fish related cleaning) Out of curiosity I neglected to maintain 1 of my impellers for one of my Aqueon HOB filters, and within 3 months it was garbage due to the amount of build up that just does not come off. I have very hard water where I live, pH from the tap runs about 8.5 most of the year, sometimes going as high as 8.7. Even without the real hard water, an impeller should still be removed and cleaned at least a few times/yr. Hope that helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > After a long waiting, I got the Aquaclear 30 HOB filter from the US for my > 20g community tank (hopefully will become a 25-30g next year), a friend who > was visiting got it for me. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the voltage > difference between my country and the US, it's 220 V here. So the filter > worked for a few minutes then became dead L > > > > Any suggestion about the best way to get a motor unit replacement (cheap and > fast)? A friend of mine is going to USA in a few days, don't know to which > state she's going. > > And, do you suggest to get any other replacement parts, parts that usually > get worn out easily in this particular filter model? I already got a pack of > sponge replacement with the filter (3 pcs). > > > > I also got the API freshwater master test kit, so I'm somehow on board now! > > > > Thanks, > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49619	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question

Yes I also have to pull the impellers out of my HOB filters and clean them every few months. But it's not from hard water deposits, it's from the plant debris that build up on the outside of the impeller. It's a slow buildup, and I can usually tell when the impeller needs cleaned as it starts slowing down on how much water gets pushed through and into the tank. I've never replaced the sponge on my aquaclear filter, I just make sure to clean it really well during filter cleanings. It's about a year old now and is still very sturdy (not decaying from use, etc), so I think the sponge can last for quite awhile if you take care of it. I've not had to replace any parts on my aquaclear in the last year, it's been going strong since I bought it. If you plan on keeping small fish or possibly breeding (guppy's etc), I would recommend you pick up some wire mesh (such as the kind that you can buy for covering your windows around your house to keep bugs out). Use it to wrap around the intake on your aquaclear and this will help keep you from sucking up babies/fry. I use zipties to hold the mesh onto my filter, but I imagine you could use some bendable wire (just make sure to not have any sharp points sticking out where fish could stab themselves on). Don't use cotton as it decays over time in the water. Amber On 11/25/2010 1:56 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > My husband had the same issue to deal with when he lived in Australia > yrs ago. He said to let you know that you can go to a local hardware > store and find a power converter, 220 to 110 voltage, which should > avoid that from happening again. The Aquaclear filters are designed to > be run on 110 voltage. > The other part(s) you may want to invest in extras for that filter > would be a spare impeller or 2. Over time they wear, get mucked up, > and the shaft inside can bend. Spare impellers is something I always > try to keep on hand for any filter I run. They are not overly > expensive but having a spare on hand can save a lot of hassle when the > time comes you need one. If you have hard water it is a good idea to > remove the impeller regularly (I try to do it monthly or more) to > clean it manually to avoid mineral deposit build up, which will > quickly destroy an impeller. (I use a toothbrush to clean mine, but it > should be a new, unused toothbrush that is only used for fish related > cleaning) Out of curiosity I neglected to maintain 1 of my impellers > for one of my Aqueon HOB filters, and within 3 months it was garbage > due to the amount of build up that just does not come off. I have very > hard water where I live, pH from the tap runs about 8.5 most of the > year, sometimes going as high as 8.7. Even without the real hard > water, an impeller should still be removed and cleaned at least a few > times/yr. > > Hope that helps. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > After a long waiting, I got the Aquaclear 30 HOB filter from the US > for my > > 20g community tank (hopefully will become a 25-30g next year), a > friend who > > was visiting got it for me. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the voltage > > difference between my country and the US, it's 220 V here. So the filter > > worked for a few minutes then became dead L > > > > > > > > Any suggestion about the best way to get a motor unit replacement > (cheap and > > fast)? A friend of mine is going to USA in a few days, don't know to > which > > state she's going. > > > > And, do you suggest to get any other replacement parts, parts that > usually > > get worn out easily in this particular filter model? I already got a > pack of > > sponge replacement with the filter (3 pcs). > > > > > > > > I also got the API freshwater master test kit, so I'm somehow on > board now! > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Noura > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49620	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

Shellies from Lake Tanganyika.brevis would be best for a 10G, the other shellies like a larger tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lauren Moore Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 5:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Breeding Cichlids? Hey All!! I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd like to breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are small enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a filter, heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes through the window but no direct light). I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are small enough to breed in a 10g. Thanks for any input!! Lauren [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49621	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

Hmmm, I'll look into those... I know a 10 is small but its the only thing I've got currently... Lauren On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...>wrote: > > > Shellies from Lake Tanganyika.brevis would be best for a 10G, the other > shellies like a larger tank. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49622	From: jaiko	Date: 11/25/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

hi you can always try apistograms dwarf south Americana cichilds --- On Thu, 11/25/10, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: From: Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Breeding Cichlids? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 25, 2010, 10:29 PM   Hmmm, I'll look into those... I know a 10 is small but its the only thing I've got currently... Lauren On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...>wrote: > > > Shellies from Lake Tanganyika.brevis would be best for a 10G, the other > shellies like a larger tank. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49623	From: Ray	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

Hi Lauren, As noted, there have been a number of good suggestions to your question of what Cichlids can be bred in a 10 gallon tank, but there have also been replies of questionable results. One thing that hasn't been brought out is your preference, if any, of New World vs Old World Cichlids -- which could also have more specific remarks as answer -- unless it really doesn't matter to you. An example of an ideal candidate for breeding in a 10 gallon tank, and being a New World Cichlid, would be the Keyhole Cichlid from South America. It's extremely peaceful -- a temperament which you will need in such smaller confines -- and doesn't get more than 3" long. Noticed, Apistogrammas were mentioned, and while their size would fit such a small tank, in general, these species have a rather loose pair bond and rather different rearing behavior of the fry from most other substrate spawners. Once the female is coaxed inside the cave you've provided, and the pair has spawned, many of these species' females will banish the male to as far to the end of the earth as possible, as they prefer to raise the fry on their own. In the confines of a 10 gallon tank, the end of the male's earth is encountered all too quickly at one of the tank's end glasses so he unfortunately can't escape the aggressions of the female at this time and may wind up pretty torn torn up or worse. For this reason, I could not recommend them for a 10 gallon tank. Other suggestions would be to set the tank up with a see-through divider of plastic "egg-crate" material that one uses for fluorescent ceiling fixtures, and put a pair a any of the smaller mouthbrooding Haplochromines in the tank -- the male on one side and the female on the other. When the female is sufficiently conditioned, you would remove the divider to observe the spawning, and replace it immediately afterwards. At no time should th pair be ledft unattended this way though, as after spawning the male will persist in breeding while the female has already expelled all her eggs and is finished spawning. The male's attentions can get very aggressive at this time. When only pairs are available and/or, when only a smaller tank is available, this is one of the most successful methods of breeding the smaller mouthbrooders. To clarify though, this would not be suitable for most Malawi or Tanganyika mouthbrooders, for the beginner hobbyist, but would work out much better with Egyptian Mouthbooders or one of the smaller Lake Victoria Haplochromines provided undivided attention is given to the pair once the divider is removed. As several Lake Tanganyika substrate spawning Cichlids have already been properly mentioned, I'd like to add a Cichlid known as the "Princess of Burundi" (Neolamprologus brichardi), which has a fry rearing technique similar to its distantly related Julidochromis species in that as it rears subsequent generations of fry, the older siblings tend to take care of the their younger brothers and sisters in helping defend them. While "Julies" require larger tanks, if only as room to pair up, N. brichardi are more accomodating in the size of their housing as well as being more tolerant of conspecifics during pair bonding and are ideal for your size tank. You will need to remove a portion of the the larger fry as the pair continue to spawn for you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > Hey All!! > > I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd like to > breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are small > enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a filter, > heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes through the > window but no direct light). > > I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are small > enough to breed in a 10g. > > Thanks for any input!! > > Lauren > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49624	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

Hmm, OK. I don't particularly care what type of fish they are, I've bred guppies, rosy barbs and convict cichlids and I'm looking for something a little different, preferably with some color... I'll start looking up the different types that were listed here.... Thanks for the info everyone! Lauren On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > Hi Lauren, > > As noted, there have been a number of good suggestions to your question of > what Cichlids can be bred in a 10 gallon tank, but there have also been > replies of questionable results. One thing that hasn't been brought out is > your preference, if any, of New World vs Old World Cichlids -- which could > also have more specific remarks as answer -- unless it really doesn't matter > to you. > > An example of an ideal candidate for breeding in a 10 gallon tank, and > being a New World Cichlid, would be the Keyhole Cichlid from South America. > It's extremely peaceful -- a temperament which you will need in such smaller > confines -- and doesn't get more than 3" long. > > Noticed, Apistogrammas were mentioned, and while their size would fit such > a small tank, in general, these species have a rather loose pair bond and > rather different rearing behavior of the fry from most other substrate > spawners. Once the female is coaxed inside the cave you've provided, and the > pair has spawned, many of these species' females will banish the male to as > far to the end of the earth as possible, as they prefer to raise the fry on > their own. In the confines of a 10 gallon tank, the end of the male's earth > is encountered all too quickly at one of the tank's end glasses so he > unfortunately can't escape the aggressions of the female at this time and > may wind up pretty torn torn up or worse. For this reason, I could not > recommend them for a 10 gallon tank. > > Other suggestions would be to set the tank up with a see-through divider of > plastic "egg-crate" material that one uses for fluorescent ceiling fixtures, > and put a pair a any of the smaller mouthbrooding Haplochromines in the tank > -- the male on one side and the female on the other. When the female is > sufficiently conditioned, you would remove the divider to observe the > spawning, and replace it immediately afterwards. At no time should th pair > be ledft unattended this way though, as after spawning the male will persist > in breeding while the female has already expelled all her eggs and is > finished spawning. The male's attentions can get very aggressive at this > time. When only pairs are available and/or, when only a smaller tank is > available, this is one of the most successful methods of breeding the > smaller mouthbrooders. To clarify though, this would not be suitable for > most Malawi or Tanganyika mouthbrooders, for the beginner hobbyist, but > would work out much better with Egyptian Mouthbooders or one of the smaller > Lake Victoria Haplochromines provided undivided attention is given to the > pair once the divider is removed. > > As several Lake Tanganyika substrate spawning Cichlids have already been > properly mentioned, I'd like to add a Cichlid known as the "Princess of > Burundi" (Neolamprologus brichardi), which has a fry rearing technique > similar to its distantly related Julidochromis species in that as it rears > subsequent generations of fry, the older siblings tend to take care of the > their younger brothers and sisters in helping defend them. While "Julies" > require larger tanks, if only as room to pair up, N. brichardi are more > accomodating in the size of their housing as well as being more tolerant of > conspecifics during pair bonding and are ideal for your size tank. You will > need to remove a portion of the the larger fry as the pair continue to spawn > for you. > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49625	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

I would not suggest dwarf cichlids for breeding in a 10 gallon. Not only do they need space, but once you have fry in the tank, water quality would be quite difficult to keep up with, not to mention space issues as the fry grow so quickly. This applies to apistos and rams, and yes, I have bred both over the yrs. Something I noticed in your post that hasn't been mentioned yet... you said you only have one 10 gallon tank to work with... if you plan to breed, where do you hope to keep the fry until they are large enough to rehome? Regardless of how small the species of fish you decide to work with, please remember that the fry grow quickly and will need a place to go. 10 gallons is not going to be near enough room for a full spawn of any species of fish, including guppies, for longer than maybe a couple of weeks. A suggestion for you: If you really want to breed "something", why not ghost shrimp or cherry shrimp? These are easy to breed, could easily be done in a 10 gallon, and would avoid all of the issues I just mentioned. While I prefer the larger tanks for breeding even the shrimp, I have done it in 10 gallons successfully many times. You would still need to rehome the excess shrimp eventually, but it would buy you a lot more time before this would need to be done and a number of generations are possible to keep long term in such confined quarters without issues. If the ghost shrimp idea appeals to you, be careful how many females you add to a tank of that size, you'd want to stick to 1 or 2 females and finish off with multiple males. Female ghost shrimp are larger than the males and can be a lot more aggressive if carrying eggs and feeling crowded. (This is not the case with cherry shrimp) BTW, firemouth cichlids get WAY too big to even live in a 10 gallon tank much less breed in one. Hope this helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > Hey All!! > > I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd like to > breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are small > enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a filter, > heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes through the > window but no direct light). > > I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are small > enough to breed in a 10g. > > Thanks for any input!! > > Lauren > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49626	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

I contemplated shrimps... even had a few at one point but didn't have real good luck with them.... The ghost shrimp I'd love to try to breed but didn't think you could... did a little research on that at one point... I do have a couple of different 10gallon tanks that I could use... Maybe I'll rethink and work on a very planted tank with cherry shrimp... Lauren On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 1:21 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > I would not suggest dwarf cichlids for breeding in a 10 gallon. Not only do > they need space, but once you have fry in the tank, water quality would be > quite difficult to keep up with, not to mention space issues as the fry grow > so quickly. This applies to apistos and rams, and yes, I have bred both over > the yrs. > > Something I noticed in your post that hasn't been mentioned yet... you said > you only have one 10 gallon tank to work with... if you plan to breed, where > do you hope to keep the fry until they are large enough to rehome? > Regardless of how small the species of fish you decide to work with, please > remember that the fry grow quickly and will need a place to go. 10 gallons > is not going to be near enough room for a full spawn of any species of fish, > including guppies, for longer than maybe a couple of weeks. > > A suggestion for you: If you really want to breed "something", why not > ghost shrimp or cherry shrimp? These are easy to breed, could easily be done > in a 10 gallon, and would avoid all of the issues I just mentioned. While I > prefer the larger tanks for breeding even the shrimp, I have done it in 10 > gallons successfully many times. You would still need to rehome the excess > shrimp eventually, but it would buy you a lot more time before this would > need to be done and a number of generations are possible to keep long term > in such confined quarters without issues. > > If the ghost shrimp idea appeals to you, be careful how many females you > add to a tank of that size, you'd want to stick to 1 or 2 females and finish > off with multiple males. Female ghost shrimp are larger than the males and > can be a lot more aggressive if carrying eggs and feeling crowded. (This is > not the case with cherry shrimp) > > BTW, firemouth cichlids get WAY too big to even live in a 10 gallon tank > much less breed in one. > > Hope this helps. > > Dawn > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lauren > Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > > > Hey All!! > > > > I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd like to > > breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are > small > > enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a filter, > > heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes through > the > > window but no direct light). > > > > I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are > small > > enough to breed in a 10g. > > > > Thanks for any input!! > > > > Lauren > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49627	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

Ray, I had been thinking _Julidochromis_ spp. myself, but I could not remember what size tank I had used for them. After a great deal of thought, I had them in a 20L.Started with a number, went down to a pair, and then several generations from that pair. I'd scoop out a bunch every so often to take to an auction, otherwise the population became self limiting. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Breeding Cichlids? Hi Lauren, As noted, there have been a number of good suggestions to your question of what Cichlids can be bred in a 10 gallon tank, but there have also been replies of questionable results. One thing that hasn't been brought out is your preference, if any, of New World vs Old World Cichlids -- which could also have more specific remarks as answer -- unless it really doesn't matter to you. An example of an ideal candidate for breeding in a 10 gallon tank, and being a New World Cichlid, would be the Keyhole Cichlid from South America. It's extremely peaceful -- a temperament which you will need in such smaller confines -- and doesn't get more than 3" long. Noticed, Apistogrammas were mentioned, and while their size would fit such a small tank, in general, these species have a rather loose pair bond and rather different rearing behavior of the fry from most other substrate spawners. Once the female is coaxed inside the cave you've provided, and the pair has spawned, many of these species' females will banish the male to as far to the end of the earth as possible, as they prefer to raise the fry on their own. In the confines of a 10 gallon tank, the end of the male's earth is encountered all too quickly at one of the tank's end glasses so he unfortunately can't escape the aggressions of the female at this time and may wind up pretty torn torn up or worse. For this reason, I could not recommend them for a 10 gallon tank. Other suggestions would be to set the tank up with a see-through divider of plastic "egg-crate" material that one uses for fluorescent ceiling fixtures, and put a pair a any of the smaller mouthbrooding Haplochromines in the tank -- the male on one side and the female on the other. When the female is sufficiently conditioned, you would remove the divider to observe the spawning, and replace it immediately afterwards. At no time should th pair be ledft unattended this way though, as after spawning the male will persist in breeding while the female has already expelled all her eggs and is finished spawning. The male's attentions can get very aggressive at this time. When only pairs are available and/or, when only a smaller tank is available, this is one of the most successful methods of breeding the smaller mouthbrooders. To clarify though, this would not be suitable for most Malawi or Tanganyika mouthbrooders, for the beginner hobbyist, but would work out much better with Egyptian Mouthbooders or one of the smaller Lake Victoria Haplochromines provided undivided attention is given to the pair once the divider is removed. As several Lake Tanganyika substrate spawning Cichlids have already been properly mentioned, I'd like to add a Cichlid known as the "Princess of Burundi" (Neolamprologus brichardi), which has a fry rearing technique similar to its distantly related Julidochromis species in that as it rears subsequent generations of fry, the older siblings tend to take care of the their younger brothers and sisters in helping defend them. While "Julies" require larger tanks, if only as room to pair up, N. brichardi are more accomodating in the size of their housing as well as being more tolerant of conspecifics during pair bonding and are ideal for your size tank. You will need to remove a portion of the the larger fry as the pair continue to spawn for you. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > Hey All!! > > I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd like to > breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are small > enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a filter, > heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes through the > window but no direct light). > > I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are small > enough to breed in a 10g. > > Thanks for any input!! > > Lauren > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49628	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: What's so special about the Mangrove killifish?

I have been fascinated by these fish for years, but have never kept any. You'll not find these fish in stores, but you should be able to find someone who is offering them in a private sale. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3383&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=November_26_2010&utm_term=Whats_so_special_about_the_Mangrove_killifish?&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2d2kce4 What's so special about the Mangrove killifish? Copyright (c) University of Guelph Actually, rather a lot! This little fish can spend more than two months living out of water. And, as Andy Turko of the University of Guelph explains, that's not the only thing that makes the Mangrove killifish unique. Despite their relatively drab appearance, Mangrove killifish, Kryptolebias marmoratus (Poey), have been the subject of a flurry of research due to their unique life history. They are amphibious fish, able to spend time in water or in moist habitats on land. This behaviour requires a range of adaptations which are just beginning to be understood. Mangrove killifish live in brackish mangrove forests of the tropical west-Atlantic. While a rich ecosystem including hundreds of fish species, exists around the coastal margins of mangrove forests, the harsh environment further inland limits the fish fauna to only a few species. Here, fishes occupy small pockets of water such as burrows excavated by land crabs. Conditions in these burrows fluctuate with tides, weather, and seasons, but the habitat can be generally typified by low dissolved oxygen and the presence of hydrogen sulphide from rotting mangrove leaves. However, 26 killifish have been found in one burrow. Besides being able to tolerate poor water conditions, how can a fish occupy this niche? One solution is to become amphibious. Many cues cause killifish to leave the water, or emerse. High levels of hydrogen sulphide, low dissolved oxygen, aggression from other fish, hunger, and drought have been suggested as triggers for emersion. On land, Mangrove killifish move by flipping about seemingly at random, much like typical non-amphibious fishes when out of water. However, Mangrove killifish are capable of directional movement and can even hunt termites on land. These foraging trips are short, but during the dry season killifish can remain out of water for over 66 days. During these periods, killifish seek refuge in leaf litter or inside insect tunnels within rotting logs. The ability to survive out of water for such durations has required the evolution of some unique physiological traits. The gills of fish are the most important site for interactions with the external environment. Gills are the site of oxygen uptake, waste excretion, and salt regulation. But what if gills become non-functional? Mangrove killifish stop ventilating their gills while out of water, and after one week on land the gills are physically modified in a way that likely prevents damage but also reduces functionality. The skin takes on the functions of the gills. Dense networks of blood vessels just below the surface of the skin receive increased blood flow during emersion, allowing oxygen uptake to occur here rather than at the gills. The skin also becomes the predominant site of excretion of the metabolic waste product ammonia. Mangrove killifish excrete ammonia through the skin as a gas. Mangrove killifish are the only known self-fertilising hermaphroditic vertebrates. This means most adults possess ovaries and testes, and are capable of internal fertilisation. However, some populations are known to contain males. These males reproduce sexually with hermaphrodites, increasing population level genetic variation. This strategy, known as androdioecy, may provide a "best of both worlds" system well suited to highly variable environments. Newly "discovered" burrows can be rapidly populated by a single fish, while genetic variation allowing future evolution is maintained by males. Researchers around the world are studying the Mangrove killifish, and many questions remain. From physiology to behaviour, genetics to ecology, biologists of every discipline are beginning to understand the survival strategies of this superficially mundane fish. Published: Andy Turko Monday 22 November 2010, 10:35 am \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49629	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Weird fish of the week: Lumpsucker

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3401&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=November_26_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_of_the_week:_Lumpsucker&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/23rn435 Weird fish of the week: Lumpsucker Copyright (c) Haplochromis, Creative Commons Let's face it, a fish with a common name like "Lumpsucker", and a scientific one of Cyclopterus lumpus, was never likely to be a looker or a streamlined cruiser of the world's oceans, but nevertheless this odd looking UK native is a fascinating fish. Scorpaeniformes from the family Cyclopteridae, they get their common and scientific names from their ability to stick to more or less whatever they're resting on with their specially modified pelvic fins (Cyclopteridae derives from kyklos, meaning 'circle' and 'pteryx' meaning 'fin' in Greek). Their modified fins allow these poor swimmers that have no swimbladder to anchor themselves in place. Their chunky, rounded body is covered in spiny tubercles which act as both protection and camouflage. They can also inflate themselves with water or air in a way similar to the puffer fishes as a further defensive measure. Their other common name of 'hen fish' relates to the male's good parenting skills. After the female has laid eggs he will stick around (literally!) next to them, guarding them against predators until they hatch after around six weeks, all this time without eating. They are themselves fished commercially for their roe which is a popular food especially in Scandinavia and is also sold elsewhere as a more affordable alternative to caviar. Growing to around 50cm/20in maximum, the females are usually a drab grey colour, while the males are a brownish red, but colour up to a more vibrant orange while breeding. Why not check out the other Weird fish of the week features? Two-headed arowana Stargazers Published: Bob Mehen Friday 26 November 2010, 10:18 am \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49630	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

If you want help with the ghost shrimp breeding please just let me know, I would be more than happy to help you. It is really rather easy to do. I've been breeding ghost shrimp for almost 20 yrs on and off now and never had an issue. The biggest trick is setting up the right environment in the tank. Java moss works the best. I'm not sure where you are, but I do have excess java moss, I'm sure if you needed some we could work something out easy enough. I have had ghost shrimp breeding in a 10 gallon for the past 4 yrs, my last female just died recently, she was almost 3 yrs old. I bred them as feeders for my cichlids until I needed the tank for other things... then it was just a matter of separating male/female out of the breeding tank and feeding off the excess shrimps. Her spawns were pretty regular and she only tolerated 1 other adult female in the same tank with her... so in a 10 gallon production rate was rather low. When I was using a 55 gallon tank to breed them yrs ago I was getting hundreds of them each month. One thing that I don't think a lot of people are aware of with the ghosties is that the females get quite territorial when they are spawning. That is honestly the hardest part of breeding them. Feeding is easy, flake food works best. Clean water is important, but if they are the only animals in the tank then water quality isn't really an issue either (unless you over feed). The java moss takes care of most of the nutrient level on its own, so even basic maintenance is low end. When there were fry in the 10 gallon I did a 15% water change every 2 wks, nothing more was needed. I also have lots of cherry shrimp if you decide that is something you want to do... and again, depending on where you are, if you want some I'm sure we can work something out. At this time of year the shrimp would need to be overnighted, but I have many yrs of experience shipping and packing... and even in winter months, survival rate has never been an issue. Just let me know... Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > I contemplated shrimps... even had a few at one point but didn't have real > good luck with them.... The ghost shrimp I'd love to try to breed but didn't > think you could... did a little research on that at one point... > > I do have a couple of different 10gallon tanks that I could use... Maybe > I'll rethink and work on a very planted tank with cherry shrimp... > > Lauren > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 1:21 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < > dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I would not suggest dwarf cichlids for breeding in a 10 gallon. Not only do > > they need space, but once you have fry in the tank, water quality would be > > quite difficult to keep up with, not to mention space issues as the fry grow > > so quickly. This applies to apistos and rams, and yes, I have bred both over > > the yrs. > > > > Something I noticed in your post that hasn't been mentioned yet... you said > > you only have one 10 gallon tank to work with... if you plan to breed, where > > do you hope to keep the fry until they are large enough to rehome? > > Regardless of how small the species of fish you decide to work with, please > > remember that the fry grow quickly and will need a place to go. 10 gallons > > is not going to be near enough room for a full spawn of any species of fish, > > including guppies, for longer than maybe a couple of weeks. > > > > A suggestion for you: If you really want to breed "something", why not > > ghost shrimp or cherry shrimp? These are easy to breed, could easily be done > > in a 10 gallon, and would avoid all of the issues I just mentioned. While I > > prefer the larger tanks for breeding even the shrimp, I have done it in 10 > > gallons successfully many times. You would still need to rehome the excess > > shrimp eventually, but it would buy you a lot more time before this would > > need to be done and a number of generations are possible to keep long term > > in such confined quarters without issues. > > > > If the ghost shrimp idea appeals to you, be careful how many females you > > add to a tank of that size, you'd want to stick to 1 or 2 females and finish > > off with multiple males. Female ghost shrimp are larger than the males and > > can be a lot more aggressive if carrying eggs and feeling crowded. (This is > > not the case with cherry shrimp) > > > > BTW, firemouth cichlids get WAY too big to even live in a 10 gallon tank > > much less breed in one. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lauren > > Moore <crested.tern.09@> wrote: > > > > > > Hey All!! > > > > > > I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd like to > > > breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are > > small > > > enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a filter, > > > heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes through > > the > > > window but no direct light). > > > > > > I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are > > small > > > enough to breed in a 10g. > > > > > > Thanks for any input!! > > > > > > Lauren > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49631	From: Noura	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question

Hi, Thanks for all the responsed to help me with the filter problem. My friend will be in Memphis, I check for Aquaclear filters in Petsmart, and they have them. So I'll ask her to get me a whole new filter (less than $8 cheaper than getting the motor unit+shipping and handling). But what I want to make sure of, is whether this filter accepts to be connected to a converter or not. I'll try to ask about this here, but if you guys have certain info that will be great too. Thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49632	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

Do you know what your pH is in your tanks? or your tapwater baseline pH? This will determine if you will have problems breeding shrimp, as they do not like low pH water, they prefer a pH of higher than 7 typically (there might be a few species that don't mind lower pH but I can't think of any off the top of my head). Amber On 11/26/2010 9:39 AM, Lauren Moore wrote: > > I contemplated shrimps... even had a few at one point but didn't have real > good luck with them.... The ghost shrimp I'd love to try to breed but > didn't > think you could... did a little research on that at one point... > > I do have a couple of different 10gallon tanks that I could use... Maybe > I'll rethink and work on a very planted tank with cherry shrimp... > > Lauren > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 1:21 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < > dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > I would not suggest dwarf cichlids for breeding in a 10 gallon. Not > only do > > they need space, but once you have fry in the tank, water quality > would be > > quite difficult to keep up with, not to mention space issues as the > fry grow > > so quickly. This applies to apistos and rams, and yes, I have bred > both over > > the yrs. > > > > Something I noticed in your post that hasn't been mentioned yet... > you said > > you only have one 10 gallon tank to work with... if you plan to > breed, where > > do you hope to keep the fry until they are large enough to rehome? > > Regardless of how small the species of fish you decide to work with, > please > > remember that the fry grow quickly and will need a place to go. 10 > gallons > > is not going to be near enough room for a full spawn of any species > of fish, > > including guppies, for longer than maybe a couple of weeks. > > > > A suggestion for you: If you really want to breed "something", why not > > ghost shrimp or cherry shrimp? These are easy to breed, could easily > be done > > in a 10 gallon, and would avoid all of the issues I just mentioned. > While I > > prefer the larger tanks for breeding even the shrimp, I have done it > in 10 > > gallons successfully many times. You would still need to rehome the > excess > > shrimp eventually, but it would buy you a lot more time before this > would > > need to be done and a number of generations are possible to keep > long term > > in such confined quarters without issues. > > > > If the ghost shrimp idea appeals to you, be careful how many females you > > add to a tank of that size, you'd want to stick to 1 or 2 females > and finish > > off with multiple males. Female ghost shrimp are larger than the > males and > > can be a lot more aggressive if carrying eggs and feeling crowded. > (This is > > not the case with cherry shrimp) > > > > BTW, firemouth cichlids get WAY too big to even live in a 10 gallon tank > > much less breed in one. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lauren > > Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hey All!! > > > > > > I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd > like to > > > breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are > > small > > > enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a filter, > > > heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes > through > > the > > > window but no direct light). > > > > > > I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are > > small > > > enough to breed in a 10g. > > > > > > Thanks for any input!! > > > > > > Lauren > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49633	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

I'll check on that as well... I'm not at home right now (out of town for Thanksgiving) but when I do get home I'll be doing water changes in a couple different tanks so I'll check that and do some more research on different species and water quality and stuff... Thanks for all the ideas guys and gals! Lauren On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...>wrote: > Do you know what your pH is in your tanks? or your tapwater baseline pH? > This will determine if you will have problems breeding shrimp, as they > do not like low pH water, they prefer a pH of higher than 7 typically > (there might be a few species that don't mind lower pH but I can't think > of any off the top of my head). > > Amber > > On 11/26/2010 9:39 AM, Lauren Moore wrote: > > > > I contemplated shrimps... even had a few at one point but didn't have > real > > good luck with them.... The ghost shrimp I'd love to try to breed but > > didn't > > think you could... did a little research on that at one point... > > > > I do have a couple of different 10gallon tanks that I could use... Maybe > > I'll rethink and work on a very planted tank with cherry shrimp... > > > > Lauren > > > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 1:21 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < > > dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com<dawnshungryeyes4u2c%2540yahoo.com>>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I would not suggest dwarf cichlids for breeding in a 10 gallon. Not > > only do > > > they need space, but once you have fry in the tank, water quality > > would be > > > quite difficult to keep up with, not to mention space issues as the > > fry grow > > > so quickly. This applies to apistos and rams, and yes, I have bred > > both over > > > the yrs. > > > > > > Something I noticed in your post that hasn't been mentioned yet... > > you said > > > you only have one 10 gallon tank to work with... if you plan to > > breed, where > > > do you hope to keep the fry until they are large enough to rehome? > > > Regardless of how small the species of fish you decide to work with, > > please > > > remember that the fry grow quickly and will need a place to go. 10 > > gallons > > > is not going to be near enough room for a full spawn of any species > > of fish, > > > including guppies, for longer than maybe a couple of weeks. > > > > > > A suggestion for you: If you really want to breed "something", why not > > > ghost shrimp or cherry shrimp? These are easy to breed, could easily > > be done > > > in a 10 gallon, and would avoid all of the issues I just mentioned. > > While I > > > prefer the larger tanks for breeding even the shrimp, I have done it > > in 10 > > > gallons successfully many times. You would still need to rehome the > > excess > > > shrimp eventually, but it would buy you a lot more time before this > > would > > > need to be done and a number of generations are possible to keep > > long term > > > in such confined quarters without issues. > > > > > > If the ghost shrimp idea appeals to you, be careful how many females > you > > > add to a tank of that size, you'd want to stick to 1 or 2 females > > and finish > > > off with multiple males. Female ghost shrimp are larger than the > > males and > > > can be a lot more aggressive if carrying eggs and feeling crowded. > > (This is > > > not the case with cherry shrimp) > > > > > > BTW, firemouth cichlids get WAY too big to even live in a 10 gallon > tank > > > much less breed in one. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%2540yahoogroups.com>> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lauren > > > Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey All!! > > > > > > > > I've got a 10 gallon tank that isn't currently being used and I'd > > like to > > > > breed something in it... Considering cichlids but not sure if any are > > > small > > > > enough to make that possible in a 10 gallon tank!! I do have a > filter, > > > > heater and working on a light (it has a lot of light that comes > > through > > > the > > > > window but no direct light). > > > > > > > > I really like rams and firemouths but not sure if either of them are > > > small > > > > enough to breed in a 10g. > > > > > > > > Thanks for any input!! > > > > > > > > Lauren > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49634	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/26/2010
Subject: Re: AquaClear replacement question

Noura, The power converter should have the correct female receptacle for the plug to match its output. It should also have to correct plug for the outlet in your wall. You'll need a NEMA 1-15R (two wire, not grounded) or 5-15R (3 wire grounded) for the output of the converter, and, after doing some research via Google, thinking that you are in Syria, a "Type C " European CEE 7/16 Europlug or "Type L " Italian CEI 23-16/VII depending on whether you have a 2 or three prong outlet. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 5:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: AquaClear replacement question Hi, Thanks for all the responsed to help me with the filter problem. My friend will be in Memphis, I check for Aquaclear filters in Petsmart, and they have them. So I'll ask her to get me a whole new filter (less than $8 cheaper than getting the motor unit+shipping and handling). But what I want to make sure of, is whether this filter accepts to be connected to a converter or not. I'll try to ask about this here, but if you guys have certain info that will be great too. Thanks, Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49635	From: Noura	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Yellow Lab investigation!

Hi, My Yellow Labs look mature enough to breed, and with the absense of their previous aggressive tank mates-the Kenyis- the 3 (3"sized) Labs are out and about peacefully in their tank, with no other fish. So I used the venting method to see what they are, and found out that I probably have all females, although one of them is significantly larger than the other two, an has quite dark black stripes on "her" fins, the other two have light or none dark fin stripes. All three have large pink vents , about 3 times larger than the anus. Can a female have very dark fin stripes? And if I want to get them a male, what should I look for in order to increase my changes of buying a male, assuming that the seller won't let me "vent" them before buying?! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49636	From: kuradi8	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!

I love Yellow Labs. Their bright yellow color is so cheerful! I think they're going to be my next tankful of fish -- not that I'm looking forward to the demise of those I have now. I always thought that the ones with the black edge on the dorsal fin were males and the ones without were females. I'm interested in the other replies to learn more, myself. ~Kai > Noura wrote: > > Hi, > > My Yellow Labs look mature enough to breed, and with the absense of their previous aggressive tank mates-the Kenyis- the 3 (3"sized) Labs are out and about peacefully in their tank, with no other fish. > > So I used the venting method to see what they are, and found out that I probably have all females, although one of them is significantly larger than the other two, an has quite dark black stripes on "her" fins, the other two have light or none dark fin stripes. All three have large pink vents , about 3 times larger than the anus. > > Can a female have very dark fin stripes? And if I want to get them a male, what should I look for in order to increase my changes of buying a male, assuming that the seller won't let me "vent" them before buying?! > > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49637	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!

Yes females can have very dark fin stripes. And there is really no way to ID a male lab without venting. What we usually do is buy 6-8 unsexed juveniles, grow them out, keep a male and return the rest. But as I recall you have tank space issues. Maybe a local club or fellow hobbyist? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 9:32 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Yellow Lab investigation! Hi, My Yellow Labs look mature enough to breed, and with the absense of their previous aggressive tank mates-the Kenyis- the 3 (3"sized) Labs are out and about peacefully in their tank, with no other fish. So I used the venting method to see what they are, and found out that I probably have all females, although one of them is significantly larger than the other two, an has quite dark black stripes on "her" fins, the other two have light or none dark fin stripes. All three have large pink vents , about 3 times larger than the anus. Can a female have very dark fin stripes? And if I want to get them a male, what should I look for in order to increase my changes of buying a male, assuming that the seller won't let me "vent" them before buying?! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49638	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!

Yellow labs without the black edge on the dorsal fin are hybrids, LOL. Even if very faint, the black dorsal stripe is present on a pure labidochromis caeruleus. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation! I love Yellow Labs. Their bright yellow color is so cheerful! I think they're going to be my next tankful of fish -- not that I'm looking forward to the demise of those I have now. I always thought that the ones with the black edge on the dorsal fin were males and the ones without were females. I'm interested in the other replies to learn more, myself. ~Kai > Noura wrote: > > Hi, > > My Yellow Labs look mature enough to breed, and with the absense of their previous aggressive tank mates-the Kenyis- the 3 (3"sized) Labs are out and about peacefully in their tank, with no other fish. > > So I used the venting method to see what they are, and found out that I probably have all females, although one of them is significantly larger than the other two, an has quite dark black stripes on "her" fins, the other two have light or none dark fin stripes. All three have large pink vents , about 3 times larger than the anus. > > Can a female have very dark fin stripes? And if I want to get them a male, what should I look for in order to increase my changes of buying a male, assuming that the seller won't let me "vent" them before buying?! > > Noura > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49639	From: Patrizia	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: information fish reptiles and amphibians owners

Dear All, Hi! I am Patrizia, an Italian Veterinarian, and I am currently studying at a MSc on Clinical Animal Behaviour at the University of Lincoln (UK). Me and my group at the moment are running a survey on pets owners. We believe that results will be very helpful to have valid scientific results and know more about our animals. We are particularly interest at reptiles and amphibians at the moment, so if you own one (or maybe more) of these fantastic animals you can be interest in participating to our survey. Should you like to get involved could you please send me an email so that I can send you our questionnaire (it is very short and we do not need personal data) to fill and send back to me.Your help will give us many important information on these wonderful animals, that could be very useful in the future also for other people that would keep them in the best way. So many thanks for your help! Cheers, Patrizia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49640	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Breeding Cichlids?

\\Steve//, Yeah, a 20L is about right for a pair of Julies -- and then, only after they've already paired up. I recall I used the same size tanks when I first started to maintain them. While you may get an occasion couple of these fish that are a bit mellower than the rest (if you're lucky), and which can be put right in a 20L from the start already as a pair, they're better off being paired up first in a larger tank before placing them in these smaller tanks as pairs, so that they don't wind up killing each other. A 30 Breeder tank (or even a 40 Breeder) would not be too large for half a dozen of these small fish, just to give them enough room to be able to cope with each other while pairing up. Some many years back, several friends of mine from the North Jersey area set up their hatchery as partners, selling under their "Tropiquatics" name, and raising Rift Lake Cichlids. One of the fish groups they handled were the different Julies, and a few of the 4' x 8' X 2' (approx. 475 gallons) plywood tanks they made were used just for breeding Julies -- but they used several pairs in each tank. As they also bred a species of Mouthbrooders in each of these tanks too, all the extra space between islands of rocks that the Julie pairs occupied did not go to waste, nor did the two feet of mid-water column that the Julies only used a portion of. These tanks worked out real well for the Julies. If you can supply any of the Cichlids with enough room, you can more easily succeed with them. There are guys out there breeding Boulengerochromis, but I'd hate to pay their food bill <G>. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49641	From: Noura	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!UPDATE

I just came from the pet store, I luckily found a tankful of Yellow Labs. I bought two 2". They're still floating in the bag inside the tank, but one of them is already making battles with the old 3" "black finned" fish! They're both reaching each other's mouths THROUGH THE BAG, almost puncturing it, I can't imagine what they will do when there isn't a physical barrier between the two anymore. The two that I just bought are 2", one of them is yellow with some light gray coloration, withought dark stripes. The other has black and wide fin stripes, and he also has a black chin and abdomen. None of my previous Labs is darkly colored like that. They're fighting for 30 minutes now, on both sides of the bag. Don't know what to do to avoid a massacre if I release that new "apparently male" in the cichlid tank. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation! Yellow labs without the black edge on the dorsal fin are hybrids, LOL. Even if very faint, the black dorsal stripe is present on a pure labidochromis caeruleus. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation! I love Yellow Labs. Their bright yellow color is so cheerful! I think they're going to be my next tankful of fish -- not that I'm looking forward to the demise of those I have now. I always thought that the ones with the black edge on the dorsal fin were males and the ones without were females. I'm interested in the other replies to learn more, myself. ~Kai > Noura wrote: > > Hi, > > My Yellow Labs look mature enough to breed, and with the absense of their previous aggressive tank mates-the Kenyis- the 3 (3"sized) Labs are out and about peacefully in their tank, with no other fish. > > So I used the venting method to see what they are, and found out that I probably have all females, although one of them is significantly larger than the other two, an has quite dark black stripes on "her" fins, the other two have light or none dark fin stripes. All three have large pink vents , about 3 times larger than the anus. > > Can a female have very dark fin stripes? And if I want to get them a male, what should I look for in order to increase my changes of buying a male, assuming that the seller won't let me "vent" them before buying?! > > Noura > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49642	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!UPDATE

Noura, It is probably too late for you now, but you should wait until evening, rearrange the tank, then add the new fish. All the old territory markers will be gone, and everyone will be too busy establishing new ones that they should not bother the new fish very much. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 3:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation!UPDATE I just came from the pet store, I luckily found a tankful of Yellow Labs. I bought two 2". They're still floating in the bag inside the tank, but one of them is already making battles with the old 3" "black finned" fish! They're both reaching each other's mouths THROUGH THE BAG, almost puncturing it, I can't imagine what they will do when there isn't a physical barrier between the two anymore. The two that I just bought are 2", one of them is yellow with some light gray coloration, withought dark stripes. The other has black and wide fin stripes, and he also has a black chin and abdomen. None of my previous Labs is darkly colored like that. They're fighting for 30 minutes now, on both sides of the bag. Don't know what to do to avoid a massacre if I release that new "apparently male" in the cichlid tank. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation! Yellow labs without the black edge on the dorsal fin are hybrids, LOL. Even if very faint, the black dorsal stripe is present on a pure labidochromis caeruleus. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation! I love Yellow Labs. Their bright yellow color is so cheerful! I think they're going to be my next tankful of fish -- not that I'm looking forward to the demise of those I have now. I always thought that the ones with the black edge on the dorsal fin were males and the ones without were females. I'm interested in the other replies to learn more, myself. ~Kai > Noura wrote: > > Hi, > > My Yellow Labs look mature enough to breed, and with the absense of their previous aggressive tank mates-the Kenyis- the 3 (3"sized) Labs are out and about peacefully in their tank, with no other fish. > > So I used the venting method to see what they are, and found out that I probably have all females, although one of them is significantly larger than the other two, an has quite dark black stripes on "her" fins, the other two have light or none dark fin stripes. All three have large pink vents , about 3 times larger than the anus. > > Can a female have very dark fin stripes? And if I want to get them a male, what should I look for in order to increase my changes of buying a male, assuming that the seller won't let me "vent" them before buying?! > > Noura >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49643	From: Peter Ballantyne	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: honey gourami

I have an established 16 gallon bow front tank.  Five green neon tetras, 6 mountain minnows.  I recently bought three Honey Gouramis.  They didn't look like they were eating.  They got in on the feeding frenzy with the other fish but food would just go by thier mouths.  Two died.  The remaining one lived for three weeks.  This one picked at and ate surface stuff in the tank.  I tried frozen Daphne, blood worms, a minute part of an algae wafer, ground up.  The remaining survivor would eat a tiny bit of these each time I put it in.  That one died last night.  Does anyone have any idea what might have gone wrong? Thanks    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49644	From: haecklers	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: honey gourami

Intestinal parasites?? My gourami (pearls) feed most actively in the early morning. I can watch them as the sky is just beginning to light up, chasing the baby guppies around. It's probably too late now to say try feeding them then, tho. My best guess is they were dying when you got them, and it wasn't your fault - they may have just been beyond helping. Remember, they get shipped through the mail, often crowded in with maybe low oxygen and accumulating fish waste, not to mention possible temperature extremes and maybe even irradiation by the postal service, or being shaken or dropped. Then some pet stores put them in tanks with a lot of salt added, which can cause osmotic stress on their cells, then if you put them in water different from the pet store - different pH, mineral make-up, etc. that is yet another stress. I'm treating most of my tanks now for camallanus worms, and before I gave them the medication, I treated them with Epsom - soaked food for 3 days to rid them of other parasites, to make it easier for them to eliminate the camallanus. I was really surprised at how many they had. The fat bellies I thought was from them stuffing themselves with the good food I give them shrank down to normal size and the poos were enormous. Oddly (to me!) the aquabid fish I got didn't have the parasites, but the pet store ones almost all did. The pet stores make it seem like you should leave all breeding to the "professionals", but the fish I got from amateurs were very healthy in comparison. The instructions I found said to use one level tablespoon of Epsom Salt for 2 cups of water to make the soak, then soak any food you give them in some of that for 3-5 minutes first. The epsom salt draws moisture into their intestines to help them pass the feces, and many types of worms come out just from 3 days of that - feeding soaked foods (freeze-dried or frozen is best) 3 times a day. This is a very safe treatment and won't harm the filter, the nitrogen cycle, plants, or the fish. Of course, the fish have to be eating in the first place to do this. There are other instructions out there to make a dip of Epsom salt water, but I don't like netting and chasing sick fish, so I haven't tried that one. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Ballantyne <p.ballantyne7@...> wrote: > > I have an established 16 gallon bow front tank.  Five green neon tetras, 6 mountain minnows.  I recently bought three Honey Gouramis.  They didn't look like they were eating.  They got in on the feeding frenzy with the other fish but food would just go by thier mouths.  Two died.  The remaining one lived for three weeks.  This one picked at and ate surface stuff in the tank.  I tried frozen Daphne, blood worms, a minute part of an algae wafer, ground up.  The remaining survivor would eat a tiny bit of these each time I put it in.  That one died last night.  Does anyone have any idea what might have gone wrong? Thanks    > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49645	From: Noura	Date: 11/27/2010
Subject: Re: Yellow Lab investigation!UPDATE

OK, will do the decoration make-over now although it's morning, I'll change the PVC cave's place, move the rock cave, and maybe add a new large rock too. I've released the new fish last night (9 hours ago), and they went to hide immediately , so they only spent the night so far. Now there's some tension in the tank, but not the massacre I expected! Is it possible that these two fighters are both males? Could I be mistaken with identifying a male who's vent looks about 3 times larger than its anus? I'm talking about the old 3" fish. And in this case, considering that all 3 fish seemed to be of the same sex, could they ALL be males? I'm really eager to breed this interesting mouthbrooder, all I've successfully bred in the past were livebearers and Angelfish (whom I couldn't take care of their few hatching fry). Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 3:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation!UPDATE Noura, It is probably too late for you now, but you should wait until evening, rearrange the tank, then add the new fish. All the old territory markers will be gone, and everyone will be too busy establishing new ones that they should not bother the new fish very much. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 3:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation!UPDATE I just came from the pet store, I luckily found a tankful of Yellow Labs. I bought two 2". They're still floating in the bag inside the tank, but one of them is already making battles with the old 3" "black finned" fish! They're both reaching each other's mouths THROUGH THE BAG, almost puncturing it, I can't imagine what they will do when there isn't a physical barrier between the two anymore. The two that I just bought are 2", one of them is yellow with some light gray coloration, withought dark stripes. The other has black and wide fin stripes, and he also has a black chin and abdomen. None of my previous Labs is darkly colored like that. They're fighting for 30 minutes now, on both sides of the bag. Don't know what to do to avoid a massacre if I release that new "apparently male" in the cichlid tank. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation! Yellow labs without the black edge on the dorsal fin are hybrids, LOL. Even if very faint, the black dorsal stripe is present on a pure labidochromis caeruleus. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 12:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Lab investigation! I love Yellow Labs. Their bright yellow color is so cheerful! I think they're going to be my next tankful of fish -- not that I'm looking forward to the demise of those I have now. I always thought that the ones with the black edge on the dorsal fin were males and the ones without were females. I'm interested in the other replies to learn more, myself. ~Kai > Noura wrote: > > Hi, > > My Yellow Labs look mature enough to breed, and with the absense of their previous aggressive tank mates-the Kenyis- the 3 (3"sized) Labs are out and about peacefully in their tank, with no other fish. > > So I used the venting method to see what they are, and found out that I probably have all females, although one of them is significantly larger than the other two, an has quite dark black stripes on "her" fins, the other two have light or none dark fin stripes. All three have large pink vents , about 3 times larger than the anus. > > Can a female have very dark fin stripes? And if I want to get them a male, what should I look for in order to increase my changes of buying a male, assuming that the seller won't let me "vent" them before buying?! > > Noura > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49646	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/29/2010
Subject: New file uploaded to AquaticLife

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AquaticLife group. File : /QuestionnairePets.doc Uploaded by : aquaticlifegroup <aquaticlifegroup@...> Description : the questionnaire from Message #49639 about a survey on pets owners, send completed forms to ~ pat.kiki.maya@... You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/QuestionnairePets.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, aquaticlifegroup <aquaticlifegroup@...>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49647	From: Aquatic Life Group Owner	Date: 11/29/2010
Subject: Re: Questionnaire for Pets’ Owners

The Survey has been uploaded to the Groups File section ~ http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wJXzTBkNE9_Y3VYBGscwinNaFXOM3M8z5pABU9bPORzWQyTmh-owIYzYTESU28Jt2W-j3TSlTUitZPKtBnnl/QuestionnairePets.doc if the above link breaks, you can find the File "QuestionnairePets.doc" at the bottom of ~ http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrizia <pat.kiki.maya@...> wrote: > > Dear All, > > Hi! I am Patrizia, an Italian Veterinarian, and I am currently studying at a > MSc on Clinical Animal Behaviour at the University of Lincoln (UK). Me and > my group at the moment are running a survey on pets owners. We believe that > results will be very helpful to have valid scientific results and know more > about our animals. We are particularly interest at reptiles and amphibians > at the moment, so if you own one (or maybe more) of these fantastic animals > you can be interest in participating to our survey. Should you like to get > involved could you please send me an email so that I can send you our > questionnaire (it is very short and we do not need personal data) to fill > and send back to me.Your help will give us many important information on > these wonderful animals, that could be very useful in the future also for > other people that would keep them in the best way. So many thanks for your > help! > > Cheers, > > Patrizia > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49648	From: Mike	Date: 11/29/2010
Subject: Giant Goldfish – real or fake ?

A giant goldfish was apparently caught at a lake in France but now some are calling the story a fake, though marine experts say that a fish that size and color is very possible. <http://> Photoshop <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop> magic but it is real, Fisherman Raphael Biagini caught a huge Goldfish <http://e-fishingnews.com/interesting/657> in France where the fish are very popular. The fish is orange in color and looks like a giant goldfish which weighs 30 pounds. Photo is several months old but it is getting popular now through an article from U.K's Daily Mail <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html> .Giant Goldfish – real or fake ? <http://e-fishingnews.com/amazing/1280> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49649	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/29/2010
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Giant Goldfish - real or fake ?

First, for those looking for the daily Mail link, try this one: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1309880/Fisherman-Raphael- Biagini-catches-massive-30lbs-goldfish.html http://tinyurl.com/36qqt9b Second, what we see here is not a goldfish, note the barbels, but probably a golden carp. Carp can grow to 48" and weigh about 90 lbs. This article, if not the original, is certainly closer to it than the Daily Mail piece. http://www.colinmaire.net/carpes-records-monde/carpe-miroir-600-kgs-lac-curt ons-rainbow-lake-lac-prive-martin-locke/ http://tinyurl.com/29sbux3 \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 8:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Giant Goldfish – real or fake ? A giant goldfish was apparently caught at a lake in France but now some are calling the story a fake, though marine experts say that a fish that size and color is very possible. <http://> Photoshop <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop> magic but it is real, Fisherman Raphael Biagini caught a huge Goldfish <http://e-fishingnews.com/interesting/657> in France where the fish are very popular. The fish is orange in color and looks like a giant goldfish which weighs 30 pounds. Photo is several months old but it is getting popular now through an article from U.K's Daily Mail <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html> .Giant Goldfish – real or fake ? <http://e-fishingnews.com/amazing/1280> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49650	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/30/2010
Subject: Re: Giant Goldfish - real or fake ?

I agree with you Steve. That does appear to be a carp, and it could very well be the real thing. The term "goldfish" seems to be used quite loosely by the press, and there is a very distinct difference between a carp and a goldfish. If someone is seeking the relationship between the 2, they would be considered cousins... but they are definitely different species. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > First, for those looking for the daily Mail link, try this one: > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1309880/Fisherman-Raphael- > Biagini-catches-massive-30lbs-goldfish.html > http://tinyurl.com/36qqt9b > > Second, what we see here is not a goldfish, note the barbels, but probably a > golden carp. Carp can grow to 48" and weigh about 90 lbs. > > This article, if not the original, is certainly closer to it than the Daily > Mail piece. > http://www.colinmaire.net/carpes-records-monde/carpe-miroir-600-kgs-lac-curt > ons-rainbow-lake-lac-prive-martin-locke/ > http://tinyurl.com/29sbux3 > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 8:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Giant Goldfish – real or fake ? > > A giant goldfish was apparently caught at a lake in France but now some > are calling the story a fake, though marine experts say that a fish > that size and color is very possible. <http://> Photoshop > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop> magic but it is real, > Fisherman Raphael Biagini caught a huge Goldfish > <http://e-fishingnews.com/interesting/657> in France where the fish > are very popular. The fish is orange in color and looks like a giant > goldfish which weighs 30 pounds. Photo is several months old but it is > getting popular now through an article from U.K's Daily Mail > <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html> .Giant Goldfish – real > or fake ? <http://e-fishingnews.com/amazing/1280> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49651	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 11/30/2010
Subject: Re: Giant Goldfish - real or fake ?

Judging from the B&W photos in the French report, I'd judge the coloration in the photo shown in the Daily Mail report introduced before publication. One may put forth the proposition that they could not call it a goldfish without the colorization of the fish. Even though the French publication's photos are B&W, I'd judge the coloration to be more of that of a carp. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dawnshungryeyes4u2c Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Giant Goldfish - real or fake ? I agree with you Steve. That does appear to be a carp, and it could very well be the real thing. The term "goldfish" seems to be used quite loosely by the press, and there is a very distinct difference between a carp and a goldfish. If someone is seeking the relationship between the 2, they would be considered cousins... but they are definitely different species. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > First, for those looking for the daily Mail link, try this one: > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1309880/Fisherman-Raphael- > Biagini-catches-massive-30lbs-goldfish.html > http://tinyurl.com/36qqt9b > > Second, what we see here is not a goldfish, note the barbels, but probably a > golden carp. Carp can grow to 48" and weigh about 90 lbs. > > This article, if not the original, is certainly closer to it than the Daily > Mail piece. > http://www.colinmaire.net/carpes-records-monde/carpe-miroir-600-kgs-lac-curt > ons-rainbow-lake-lac-prive-martin-locke/ > http://tinyurl.com/29sbux3 > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 8:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Giant Goldfish - real or fake ? > > A giant goldfish was apparently caught at a lake in France but now some > are calling the story a fake, though marine experts say that a fish > that size and color is very possible. <http://> Photoshop > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop> magic but it is real, > Fisherman Raphael Biagini caught a huge Goldfish > <http://e-fishingnews.com/interesting/657> in France where the fish > are very popular. The fish is orange in color and looks like a giant > goldfish which weighs 30 pounds. Photo is several months old but it is > getting popular now through an article from U.K's Daily Mail > <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html> .Giant Goldfish - real > or fake ? <http://e-fishingnews.com/amazing/1280> > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49652	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Rant du Jour

As many of you know, I keep a few Bettas and am always disappointed at the ill-bred ones I find at LFS. I drool at AquaBid but can't justify the cost of shipping, especially if I only want ONE fish to replace one I've lost. Well, imagine my delight when someone from only about 40 miles away (and I have plans to be in his neck of the woods TWICE this week) posted some Bettas for sale on there a few days ago. No exaggeration, I was happy-dancing here at my computer! He has females for sale on AquaBid. Not being a breeder, I'm not interested in females, so I emailed and asked if he had males. His replies were kinda monosyllabic -- maybe using a phone instead of a computer. And he eventually sent me photos of the two males he had for sale. My heart sank. They are two that I recognize as having been on AquaBid from other sellers. (If they had been his listings, I would have noticed because he's local.) He wanted $35 plus shipping (apparently he didn't remember that I'm local) apiece -- though I doubt he paid more than $20/ea for them. Had he bought them and been unhappy with them? Had he bought and bred them? (Nah, not enough time...) Or was he trying to SCAM me? So I told him that I recognized them as other people's fish. "Do you have fish of your own?" He replied [sic] "Ya i do have my own fish" And that was it -- no offer to sell them. Is he simply a bad salesman? Or is he a scammer? Gut feeling says that I shouldn't trust him. Bummer. I still want to get a good Betta. But not from him. Oh, I'm SOOOOOO disappointed. I FINALLY found a local breeder and he turned out to be someone I don't care to do business with. Sigh, ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49653	From: judith	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: new memeber

Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks. I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had. I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail. I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them. So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there. He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it. There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies. So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank. Now he resides with the comet gold fish. The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection. I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt. He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked! I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped. I was so glad when the betta lived. He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice. 2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second. I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one. He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49654	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

Judy welcome Sounds like you have a nice little fish family. And baby fish are always fun. I have baby guppies and goldfish right now. And dwarf frogs and tiny clams and lots of different goldfish in tanks and ponds. Plus 3 dogs so my family calls it the zoo! If you have any questions just ask Bren Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "judith" <jkw1860@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 22:15:09 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks. I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had. I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail. I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them. So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there. He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it. There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies. So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank. Now he resides with the comet gold fish. The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection. I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt. He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked! I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped. I was so glad when the betta lived. He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice. 2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second. I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one. He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49655	From: haecklers	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour

I'd say trust your gut instinct if you get a vibe, but I wouldn't bad-mouth anyone without more proof than a gut feeling. RE: quality bettas - have you been in PetCo lately? They've got rosetails, coppers, all kinds of the fancy ones, the highest are only around $15. Check them well to be sure they aren't sick, tho, as I don't know how well they take care of them. And some are very small, hopefully just young and not runts or stunted. My daughter saw a gorgeous male in a PetCo earlier this week - butterfly, rosetail, platinum and red. He kept sinking face-down in his little cup and seemed to be lacking vitality. She went to the store manager and asked if she could take him home and try to nurture him back to health. The manager said he was a beautiful fish and she'd noticed that morning he looked in a bad way so she gave him to my daughter. When we got him home I saw he was breathing really hard. I had some Prazi on hand and put a little of it in, just in case he had gill flukes. I did it as a bath in the container we bought him in, then poured off the water and put him in a 5-gallon bowl. About an hour later he was the most active of all our fish, exploring everything and has shown no signs of any ill-health since then. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > As many of you know, I keep a few Bettas and am always disappointed at the ill-bred ones I find at LFS. I drool at AquaBid but can't justify the cost of shipping, especially if I only want ONE fish to replace one I've lost. Well, imagine my delight when someone from only about 40 miles away (and I have plans to be in his neck of the woods TWICE this week) posted some Bettas for sale on there a few days ago. No exaggeration, I was happy-dancing here at my computer! He has females for sale on AquaBid. Not being a breeder, I'm not interested in females, so I emailed and asked if he had males. His replies were kinda monosyllabic -- maybe using a phone instead of a computer. And he eventually sent me photos of the two males he had for sale. > > My heart sank. > > They are two that I recognize as having been on AquaBid from other sellers. (If they had been his listings, I would have noticed because he's local.) He wanted $35 plus shipping (apparently he didn't remember that I'm local) apiece -- though I doubt he paid more than $20/ea for them. Had he bought them and been unhappy with them? Had he bought and bred them? (Nah, not enough time...) Or was he trying to SCAM me? So I told him that I recognized them as other people's fish. "Do you have fish of your own?" He replied [sic] "Ya i do have my own fish" > > And that was it -- no offer to sell them. Is he simply a bad salesman? Or is he a scammer? Gut feeling says that I shouldn't trust him. Bummer. I still want to get a good Betta. But not from him. > > Oh, I'm SOOOOOO disappointed. I FINALLY found a local breeder and he turned out to be someone I don't care to do business with. > > Sigh, > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49656	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

Judy, Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to have the rams breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a couple of comments to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank is not large enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A goldfish requires at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in less water when they are young and small, but they should be growing quickly at this time in their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. Comets, in particular need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty fish. In other words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger volume of water helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous about your water changes and filter maintenance. Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The ram is a tropical fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for this are legion, but a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different temperature ranges, disease organisms that are not normally fatal to one can be fatal to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the temperate fish requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher temperature may not allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since they need very soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to nitrogenous wastes than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality that is different from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in this regard. I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams. This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure others will, be glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I have given here, as well as delving further into other topics about your fish and tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks. I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had. I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail. I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them. So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there. He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it. There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies. So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank. Now he resides with the comet gold fish. The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection. I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt. He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked! I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped. I was so glad when the betta lived. He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice. 2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second. I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one. He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49657	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour

It's possible that he was buying them for a lower price and reselling them to make money. Or perhaps he was considering breeding them and changed his mind. I would trust your instinct though and not buy from him, unless he actually responds and clarifies why he is reselling the fish. Amber On 12/1/2010 11:01 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > As many of you know, I keep a few Bettas and am always disappointed at > the ill-bred ones I find at LFS. I drool at AquaBid but can't justify > the cost of shipping, especially if I only want ONE fish to replace > one I've lost. Well, imagine my delight when someone from only about > 40 miles away (and I have plans to be in his neck of the woods TWICE > this week) posted some Bettas for sale on there a few days ago. No > exaggeration, I was happy-dancing here at my computer! He has females > for sale on AquaBid. Not being a breeder, I'm not interested in > females, so I emailed and asked if he had males. His replies were > kinda monosyllabic -- maybe using a phone instead of a computer. And > he eventually sent me photos of the two males he had for sale. > > My heart sank. > > They are two that I recognize as having been on AquaBid from other > sellers. (If they had been his listings, I would have noticed because > he's local.) He wanted $35 plus shipping (apparently he didn't > remember that I'm local) apiece -- though I doubt he paid more than > $20/ea for them. Had he bought them and been unhappy with them? Had he > bought and bred them? (Nah, not enough time...) Or was he trying to > SCAM me? So I told him that I recognized them as other people's fish. > "Do you have fish of your own?" He replied [sic] "Ya i do have my own > fish" > > And that was it -- no offer to sell them. Is he simply a bad salesman? > Or is he a scammer? Gut feeling says that I shouldn't trust him. > Bummer. I still want to get a good Betta. But not from him. > > Oh, I'm SOOOOOO disappointed. I FINALLY found a local breeder and he > turned out to be someone I don't care to do business with. > > Sigh, > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49658	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/1/2010
Subject: Lumen output question for lighting

So I'm looking to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs in my 10 gallon hood with a CFL alternative. According to my research online I need to get a 5 watt CFL to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs. There are two bulbs in the hood. The CFL 5 watt bulbs are candelabra/decor bulbs and I think they should fit in the hood (if anyone knows for sure that would be great to know!). They are 3000 kelvin, is this going to affect plants too badly? I don't know if I can find a full spectrum candelabra 5 watt CFL, but I will keep looking online. The CFL bulbs output 200 lumens. would 200 lumens x 2 be sufficient light output for a 10 gallon? I don't know if I could put higher wattage bulbs in the hood without causing problems (I don't know how many watts the ballast can handle, or if it even has one). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49659	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting

Hi Amber, How many lumens are/were the 15 watt incandescent bulbs producing/rated for, and at what kelvin temperature? If that system was creating the desired results, replacing it with a different system with as similar as possible lumens & kelvin would obviously be the best solution. Make sure the CFL you are considering using are safe for use around water and/or are protected from moisture as the base contains circuits and components that could fail from the continued exposure to the damp environment. Did you find any LED bulbs that might work? Since this is for a planted tank, 3,000k is really low and will produce a visibly yellowish light. 6500 degrees Kelvin is the most common I've used, however I have successfully kept plants with bulbs that have a color temperature as low as 5,000k and as high as 10,000k. I use a 36 watt CF in my 10 gallon, but that required a retro fit with a kit I bought about 8 years ago from ~ http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm ~ I believe it was well worth the investment, but if considering it - look into a T-5 system as well. Hope that helps, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > So I'm looking to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs in my 10 gallon > hood with a CFL alternative. According to my research online I need to > get a 5 watt CFL to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs. There are > two bulbs in the hood. The CFL 5 watt bulbs are candelabra/decor bulbs > and I think they should fit in the hood (if anyone knows for sure that > would be great to know!). > They are 3000 kelvin, is this going to affect plants too badly? I don't > know if I can find a full spectrum candelabra 5 watt CFL, but I will > keep looking online. The CFL bulbs output 200 lumens. would 200 lumens x > 2 be sufficient light output for a 10 gallon? I don't know if I could > put higher wattage bulbs in the hood without causing problems (I don't > know how many watts the ballast can handle, or if it even has one). > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49660	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

Hi Judy!   Welcome!  Just to add to \\Steve's// posting.  On the Rams?  They love heat! If you would like to keep them happy, a tank at 82 to 84 degrees is advisable. Obviously at this temperature, you should double check on the other tank mates as to their temperature requirements, not all will fit in this higher range.   "I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams".  \\Steve// is just kidding honest!  <G> Enjoy the Rams, they are great fish!   Bill On Wed, 12/1/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 PM Judy, Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to have the rams breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a couple of comments to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank is not large enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A goldfish requires at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in less water when they are young and small, but they should be growing quickly at this time in their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. Comets, in particular need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty fish. In other words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger volume of water helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous about your water changes and filter maintenance. Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The ram is a tropical fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for this are legion, but a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different temperature ranges,  disease organisms that are not normally fatal to one can be fatal to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the temperate fish requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher temperature may not allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since they need very soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to nitrogenous wastes than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality that is different from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in this regard. I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams. This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure others will, be glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I have given here, as well as delving further into other topics about your fish and tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks.  I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had.  I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail.  I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them.  So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there.  He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it.  There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies.  So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank.  Now he resides with the comet gold fish.  The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection.  I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt.  He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked!  I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped.  I was so glad when the betta lived.  He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice.  2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second.  I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one.  He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49661	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour

I just wanted to tell you what happened and how disappointed I was. If he comes off poorly, it's because his communication wasn't very confidence-inspiring and therefore I chose not to do business with him. Your mileage may vary. I suspect that the overall quality of Bettas would be better if I were in a more urban area. I don't imagine that folks here in the boonies realize how "fancy" Bettas can be -- or that their quality should be better. It hurts my heart that Bettas are "disposable" pets around here. And therefore we get those from the bottom of the breeding barrel. We have ONE good LFS who makes an effort to carry higher quality fish of all kinds. They say that they "hand pick" their Bettas from their supplier instead of just buying them in bulk. Unfortunately, they don't know how to recognize "better" ones (yet?) Or maybe that's the best that their supplier has in their price (low) range. But I appreciate their efforts and shop there first. "Someday" I'll get "good" Bettas from a breeder. We occasionally pass through NYC and there are several breeders in the metro-area who advertise on AquaBid -- not much of a detour to get to many of them. Or I'll combine a shipped order with friends and split the postage with them. Who knows? Maybe I'll even set up a breeding station and grow my own. ;oP ~Kai > "haecklers" wrote: > > I'd say trust your gut instinct if you get a vibe, but I wouldn't bad-mouth anyone without more proof than a gut feeling. > > RE: quality bettas - have you been in PetCo lately? They've got rosetails, coppers, all kinds of the fancy ones, the highest are only around $15. Check them well to be sure they aren't sick, tho, as I don't know how well they take care of them. And some are very small, hopefully just young and not runts or stunted. > > My daughter saw a gorgeous male in a PetCo earlier this week - butterfly, rosetail, platinum and red. He kept sinking face-down in his little cup and seemed to be lacking vitality. She went to the store manager and asked if she could take him home and try to nurture him back to health. The manager said he was a beautiful fish and she'd noticed that morning he looked in a bad way so she gave him to my daughter. When we got him home I saw he was breathing really hard. I had some Prazi on hand and put a little of it in, just in case he had gill flukes. I did it as a bath in the container we bought him in, then poured off the water and put him in a 5-gallon bowl. About an hour later he was the most active of all our fish, exploring everything and has shown no signs of any ill-health since then. > > > Kai wrote: > > > > As many of you know, I keep a few Bettas and am always disappointed at the ill-bred ones I find at LFS. I drool at AquaBid but can't justify the cost of shipping, especially if I only want ONE fish to replace one I've lost. Well, imagine my delight when someone from only about 40 miles away (and I have plans to be in his neck of the woods TWICE this week) posted some Bettas for sale on there a few days ago. No exaggeration, I was happy-dancing here at my computer! He has females for sale on AquaBid. Not being a breeder, I'm not interested in females, so I emailed and asked if he had males. His replies were kinda monosyllabic -- maybe using a phone instead of a computer. And he eventually sent me photos of the two males he had for sale. > > > > My heart sank. > > > > They are two that I recognize as having been on AquaBid from other sellers. (If they had been his listings, I would have noticed because he's local.) He wanted $35 plus shipping (apparently he didn't remember that I'm local) apiece -- though I doubt he paid more than $20/ea for them. Had he bought them and been unhappy with them? Had he bought and bred them? (Nah, not enough time...) Or was he trying to SCAM me? So I told him that I recognized them as other people's fish. "Do you have fish of your own?" He replied [sic] "Ya i do have my own fish" > > > > And that was it -- no offer to sell them. Is he simply a bad salesman? Or is he a scammer? Gut feeling says that I shouldn't trust him. Bummer. I still want to get a good Betta. But not from him. > > > > Oh, I'm SOOOOOO disappointed. I FINALLY found a local breeder and he turned out to be someone I don't care to do business with. > > > > Sigh, > > ~Kai > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49662	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour

This is hard for me to phrase to get my point across... I thought it was a little brazen that he would try to re-sell me fish from AquaBid at a higher price than he probably paid when I had contacted him through AquaBid and therefore was familiar with AquaBid fish and their comparable prices. Ya know what I mean??? He has many females on AquaBid -- so where are their brothers? If they are his own fish, are they sold already? Or is he simply not a good enough salesman to think to offer any of them to me? As I said, I'm so disappointed that when I finally found a LOCAL breeder/distributor, he turned out to be someone I don't want to do business with. :o( ~Kai > Amber Berglund wrote: > > It's possible that he was buying them for a lower price and reselling them to make money. Or perhaps he was considering breeding them and changed his mind. > I would trust your instinct though and not buy from him, unless he actually responds and clarifies why he is reselling the fish. > > Amber > > > Kai wrote: > > > > As many of you know, I keep a few Bettas and am always disappointed at the ill-bred ones I find at LFS. I drool at AquaBid but can't justify the cost of shipping, especially if I only want ONE fish to replace one I've lost. Well, imagine my delight when someone from only about 40 miles away (and I have plans to be in his neck of the woods TWICE this week) posted some Bettas for sale on there a few days ago. No exaggeration, I was happy-dancing here at my computer! He has females for sale on AquaBid. Not being a breeder, I'm not interested in females, so I emailed and asked if he had males. His replies were kinda monosyllabic -- maybe using a phone instead of a computer. And he eventually sent me photos of the two males he had for sale. > > > > My heart sank. > > > > They are two that I recognize as having been on AquaBid from other sellers. (If they had been his listings, I would have noticed because he's local.) He wanted $35 plus shipping (apparently he didn't remember that I'm local) apiece -- though I doubt he paid more than $20/ea for them. Had he bought them and been unhappy with them? Had he bought and bred them? (Nah, not enough time...) Or was he trying to SCAM me? So I told him that I recognized them as other people's fish. "Do you have fish of your own?" He replied [sic] "Ya i do have my own fish" > > > > And that was it -- no offer to sell them. Is he simply a bad salesman? Or is he a scammer? Gut feeling says that I shouldn't trust him. Bummer. I still want to get a good Betta. But not from him. > > > > Oh, I'm SOOOOOO disappointed. I FINALLY found a local breeder and he turned out to be someone I don't care to do business with. > > > > Sigh, > > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49663	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting

A bulb with such a low Kelvin as 3000 will "work" but algae will likely be more problematic as the plants will be struggling. A natural daylight or full spectrum around 6500K is much better. I have two 10w GE daylight 6500K CF bulbs over my 20g, and I have used these over my 10g too, and they are fine. You will need to get the narrow ones to fit the 10g hood. A 5w bulb provided it is the same (6500K) might be sufficient (2 of them) if you can find them; I could only get the "warm white" 5w (the 3000K) and found them inadequate. I buy mine from the hardware/home improvement stores. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > So I'm looking to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs in my 10 gallon > hood with a CFL alternative. According to my research online I need to > get a 5 watt CFL to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs. There are > two bulbs in the hood. The CFL 5 watt bulbs are candelabra/decor bulbs > and I think they should fit in the hood (if anyone knows for sure that > would be great to know!). > They are 3000 kelvin, is this going to affect plants too badly? I don't > know if I can find a full spectrum candelabra 5 watt CFL, but I will > keep looking online. The CFL bulbs output 200 lumens. would 200 lumens x > 2 be sufficient light output for a 10 gallon? I don't know if I could > put higher wattage bulbs in the hood without causing problems (I don't > know how many watts the ballast can handle, or if it even has one). > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49664	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting

Please correct me if I'm wrong but that Kelvin number doesn't indicate how bright or strong the light is. It represents its color temperature. Higher numbers are closer to the blue ("cool") end of the color spectrum. Lower numbers are "warmer" red/yellow tones. While higher wattage usually corresponds with brighter output, it is actually higher power consumption. Incandescent lights put out quite a bit of heat. Ever touch a HOT light bulb??? On the other hand, those fluorescents stay relatively cool. And the amount of heat that LEDs emit is negligible. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > A bulb with such a low Kelvin as 3000 will "work" but algae will likely be more problematic as the plants will be struggling. A natural daylight or full spectrum around 6500K is much better. I have two 10w GE daylight 6500K CF bulbs over my 20g, and I have used these over my 10g too, and they are fine. You will need to get the narrow ones to fit the 10g hood. A 5w bulb provided it is the same (6500K) might be sufficient (2 of them) if you can find them; I could only get the "warm white" 5w (the 3000K) and found them inadequate. I buy mine from the hardware/home improvement stores. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > So I'm looking to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs in my 10 gallon > > hood with a CFL alternative. According to my research online I need to > > get a 5 watt CFL to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs. There are > > two bulbs in the hood. The CFL 5 watt bulbs are candelabra/decor bulbs > > and I think they should fit in the hood (if anyone knows for sure that > > would be great to know!). > > They are 3000 kelvin, is this going to affect plants too badly? I don't > > know if I can find a full spectrum candelabra 5 watt CFL, but I will > > keep looking online. The CFL bulbs output 200 lumens. would 200 lumens x > > 2 be sufficient light output for a 10 gallon? I don't know if I could > > put higher wattage bulbs in the hood without causing problems (I don't > > know how many watts the ballast can handle, or if it even has one). > > > > Amber > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49665	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Where Do You Plug it In?

Check out what an aquarium in Japan is using to power their Christmas Tree lights! http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101201/od_nm/us_japan_eel ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49666	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

Hi Bill and everyone else who took the time to read my post! Thank you! I keep all my tanks at 80 to 82 degrees. Do you think that is what made some of my fish die? None of them died right away except one gold fish. The others took months and some I had over a year. The goldfish were tiny when I got them. I got them for 13 cents each. I am going to build them a pond this spring. Someone said they have them in the horse trough too. I wonder about this because my trough is filled up from a faucet. I haven't asked if they treat the water at all. My trough is only 100 gal. Anyway I would rather have a pond! Also I think my apple snail had babies too. Can't tell yet as they are quite small. But I didn't have any snails until I got the apple snails. One died about 2 months after I got them so I only have one left. I have pictures of my fish and would like to post them as soon as I figure it out. Cheers Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry� smartphone -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:43:29 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Judy! � Welcome!� Just to add to \\Steve's// posting.� On the Rams?� They love heat! If you would like to keep them happy, a tank at 82 to 84 degrees is advisable. Obviously at this temperature, you should double check on the other tank mates as to their temperature requirements, not all will fit in this higher range. � "I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams".� \\Steve// is just kidding honest!� <G> Enjoy the Rams, they are great fish! � Bill On Wed, 12/1/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 PM Judy, Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to have the rams breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a couple of comments to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank is not large enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A goldfish requires at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in less water when they are young and small, but they should be growing quickly at this time in their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. Comets, in particular need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty fish. In other words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger volume of water helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous about your water changes and filter maintenance. Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The ram is a tropical fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for this are legion, but a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different temperature ranges,� disease organisms that are not normally fatal to one can be fatal to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the temperate fish requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher temperature may not allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since they need very soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to nitrogenous wastes than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality that is different from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in this regard. I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams. This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure others will, be glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I have given here, as well as delving further into other topics about your fish and tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks.� I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had.� I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail.� I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them.� So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there.� He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it.� There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies.� So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank.� Now he resides with the comet gold fish.� The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection.� I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt.� He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked!� I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped.� I was so glad when the betta lived.� He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice.� 2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second.� I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one.� He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy ------------------------------------ AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.� Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49667	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

Hi Judy, I can’t remember about all the fish you wrote about but some may be out of this temp range. Goldfish of course, do not need a heated tank at all. This being the case you need to do more reading-up on what you have. Most folks will tell you that a Tropical Fish Aquarium needs to be heated but there are limits. If you operate on the high end of this scale you are risking the over-all well being of the fish. High temps result in “pushing the metabolism of the fish shorting their life spans if done over all periods of time. Sometimes for the sake of medicating the fish for certain types of illness, high temps are used as well as an incentive to get fish to eat but too much will knock a tank out of balance, create other problems will other types of fish in the tank, if in a community situation, and if you have live plants, many cannot stand high temperatures either. Goggle search each fish type that you have and see what their requirements are. Finally, on the issue of higher temperatures, if you have a tank at 80 or 82 degrees, one thing everyone will tell you: Tanks at higher temps cannot safely hold as many fish as one in the 76 to 77 degree range! Why? At higher temps there is less oxygen in their water. Bill --- On Thu, 12/2/10, jkw1860@... <jkw1860@...> wrote: > From: jkw1860@... <jkw1860@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new memeber > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 2, 2010, 2:54 PM > Hi Bill and everyone else who took > the time to read my post!  Thank you! > I keep all my tanks at 80 to 82 degrees. Do you think that > is what made some of my fish die? None of them died right > away except one gold fish. The others took months and some I > had over a year. > The goldfish were tiny when I got them. I got them for 13 > cents each. I am going to build them a pond this spring. > Someone said they have them in the horse trough too. I > wonder about this because my trough is filled up from a > faucet. I haven't asked if they treat the water at all. My > trough is only 100 gal. Anyway I would rather have a > pond!  > Also I think my apple snail had babies too. Can't tell yet > as they are quite small. But I didn't have any snails until > I got the apple snails. One died about 2 months after I got > them so I only have one left. I have pictures of my fish and > would like to post them as soon as I figure it out. > Cheers > Judy  > Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone > > -----Original Message----- > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:43:29 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber > > Hi Judy! >   > Welcome!  Just to add to \\Steve's// posting.  On the > Rams?  They love heat! > If you would like to keep them happy, a tank at 82 to 84 > degrees is advisable. > Obviously at this temperature, you should double check on > the other tank mates as to their temperature requirements, > not all will fit in this higher range. >   > "I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is > cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams".  > \\Steve// is just kidding honest!  <G>  Enjoy > the Rams, they are great fish! >   > Bill > > > > On Wed, 12/1/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> > wrote: > > > From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 PM > > > Judy, > > Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to > have the rams > breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a > couple of comments > to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank > is not large > enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A > goldfish requires > at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in > less water when > they are young and small, but they should be growing > quickly at this time in > their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. > Comets, in particular > need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty > fish. In other > words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger > volume of water > helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous > about your water > changes and filter maintenance. > > Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The > ram is a tropical > fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for > this are legion, but > a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different > temperature > ranges,  disease organisms that are not normally fatal to > one can be fatal > to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the > temperate fish > requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher > temperature may not > allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since > they need very > soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to > nitrogenous wastes > than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality > that is different > from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in > this regard. > > I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is > cursing you out for > you apparent success with your rams. > > This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure > others will, be > glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I > have given here, > as well as delving further into other topics about your > fish and tanks. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of judith > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber > > Hi all, > I am new and I have 3 tanks.  I had a tank several years > ago, but my husband > and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in > there and it killed > everything I had.  I gave up when we moved from Texas to > Oklahoma. > Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank > and at present I > have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold > barbs, 2 orange > neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their > babies, and an apple > snail.  I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him > in there too, but > when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them.  So > I got a 2.5 > gallon tank and he lives in there.  He is the only > original fish I have > left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet > gold fish to > help cycle it.  There are 3 left. > When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish > store and saw they > had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have > babies.  So I brought > her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and > they picked on > the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I > thought he would die, > so I moved him over to the betta tank.  Now he resides > with the comet gold > fish.  The reason is because it was difficult keeping the > little tank clean > with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial > infection.  I removed > the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he > came in and then > I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything > then I filled it > back up and put him back in there and added salt.  He > started getting > better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his > head was not getting > better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it > worked!  I have tried > to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and > I also tried to > save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but > nothing helped.  I > was so glad when the betta lived.  He is healthy and happy > in his little > tank now. > My rams had babies twice.  2 survived from the first > batch, and 3 from the > second.  I have given away the first two to a friend and > they are thriving > in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another > friend shortly and > I am keeping the other one.  He (or she) is smaller than > the other two. > Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and > my husband could > care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He > is a dog person. > :) > Thanks for reading! > Judy > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >       > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49668	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting

The bulbs are not labeled in any way, so I honestly don't have a clue what Kelvin range or lumens they produce. The box the bulbs come in only say 15 watt clear bulb (I think they're incandescent from how they look and how quickly they burn out). The lighting is barely sufficient for the plants I have in there though, they want a little more light than they are getting. That's why I was considering replacing them with CFL bulbs (that and the CFL bulbs last a lot longer than incandescent bulbs, I have to replace the current bulbs every few months right now). The light looks a more orange color, so it's a full spectrum type of incandescent from the looks of it, but like I said the boxes aren't very well labeled for the bulbs so I can't be sure what Kelvin range they really are. I was considering the full spectrum CFL bulbs that are designed for small spaces like caldelabra's, and you can get ones with the medium sized base so it will fit in the current sockets in the hood. The hood also has plastic covers over the bulbs, so they won't get splashed or rusty from water. I found some small 5-9 watt CFL bulbs that are small enough that they should fit in the space in the hood, just want to make sure that the hood can power the bulbs properly and not cause damage. If the hood currently runs 2 x 15 watt bulbs, then I should theoretically be able to replace them with (up to) 2 x 15 watt CFL bulbs, correct?? Amber On 12/1/2010 11:56 PM, ryf_raph wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > How many lumens are/were the 15 watt incandescent bulbs > producing/rated for, and at what kelvin temperature? > > If that system was creating the desired results, replacing it with a > different system with as similar as possible lumens & kelvin would > obviously be the best solution. > > Make sure the CFL you are considering using are safe for use around > water and/or are protected from moisture as the base contains circuits > and components that could fail from the continued exposure to the damp > environment. > > Did you find any LED bulbs that might work? > > Since this is for a planted tank, 3,000k is really low and will > produce a visibly yellowish light. 6500 degrees Kelvin is the most > common I've used, however I have successfully kept plants with bulbs > that have a color temperature as low as 5,000k and as high as 10,000k. > > I use a 36 watt CF in my 10 gallon, but that required a retro fit with > a kit I bought about 8 years ago from ~ > > http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm > > ~ I believe it was well worth the investment, but if considering it - > look into a T-5 system as well. > > Hope that helps, > Aaron > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > So I'm looking to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs in my 10 > gallon > > hood with a CFL alternative. According to my research online I need to > > get a 5 watt CFL to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs. There are > > two bulbs in the hood. The CFL 5 watt bulbs are candelabra/decor bulbs > > and I think they should fit in the hood (if anyone knows for sure that > > would be great to know!). > > They are 3000 kelvin, is this going to affect plants too badly? I don't > > know if I can find a full spectrum candelabra 5 watt CFL, but I will > > keep looking online. The CFL bulbs output 200 lumens. would 200 > lumens x > > 2 be sufficient light output for a 10 gallon? > > I don't know if I could > > put higher wattage bulbs in the hood without causing problems (I don't > > know how many watts the ballast can handle, or if it even has one). > > > > Amber > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49669	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting

You are correct Kai, the Kelvin range is just the color spectrum (as OUR eyes see it so honestly it's a variable number since it could be rated the same kelvin as another bulb but the color could look differently between the two bulbs). Watts is just the power consumed to run the bulb, and Lumens is the actual amount of light the bulb produces. So lumens is what we should actually be looking at (as well as the proper kelvin range for plants, which is 5000-7000 kelvin for most plants). I found some 5500K ultra mini and also candelabra bulbs that come with a medium socket attachment so that I can screw them into the medium sockets in the hood, but I'm not sure if they produce enough lumens for the plants or if I should go with a higher wattage CFL bulb instead (typically the higher the wattage used the more lumens the light can produce, but that isn't always the case in every light bulb). Another important number is the CRI #. The higher the number the less wasted light there is in the bulb (I think... honestly I researched this all over a year ago and it's all a little fuzzy now, if I'm wrong someone feel free to correct me on the CRI rating definition). CFL bulbs can also get pretty hot to the touch, I've tried to unscrew one that had been on for an hour or two and found it too hot to touch and had to turn it off for a few minutes. Amber On 12/2/2010 7:09 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Please correct me if I'm wrong but that Kelvin number doesn't indicate > how bright or strong the light is. It represents its color > temperature. Higher numbers are closer to the blue ("cool") end of the > color spectrum. Lower numbers are "warmer" red/yellow tones. > > While higher wattage usually corresponds with brighter output, it is > actually higher power consumption. > > Incandescent lights put out quite a bit of heat. Ever touch a HOT > light bulb??? On the other hand, those fluorescents stay relatively > cool. And the amount of heat that LEDs emit is negligible. > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> > wrote: > > > > A bulb with such a low Kelvin as 3000 will "work" but algae will > likely be more problematic as the plants will be struggling. A natural > daylight or full spectrum around 6500K is much better. I have two 10w > GE daylight 6500K CF bulbs over my 20g, and I have used these over my > 10g too, and they are fine. You will need to get the narrow ones to > fit the 10g hood. A 5w bulb provided it is the same (6500K) might be > sufficient (2 of them) if you can find them; I could only get the > "warm white" 5w (the 3000K) and found them inadequate. I buy mine from > the hardware/home improvement stores. > > > > Byron. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > wrote: > > > > > > So I'm looking to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs in my 10 > gallon > > > hood with a CFL alternative. According to my research online I > need to > > > get a 5 watt CFL to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs. There are > > > two bulbs in the hood. The CFL 5 watt bulbs are candelabra/decor > bulbs > > > and I think they should fit in the hood (if anyone knows for sure > that > > > would be great to know!). > > > They are 3000 kelvin, is this going to affect plants too badly? I > don't > > > know if I can find a full spectrum candelabra 5 watt CFL, but I will > > > keep looking online. The CFL bulbs output 200 lumens. would 200 > lumens x > > > 2 be sufficient light output for a 10 gallon? I don't know if I could > > > put higher wattage bulbs in the hood without causing problems (I > don't > > > know how many watts the ballast can handle, or if it even has one). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49670	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour

I don't blame you. I'd be dissapointed as well. Amber On 12/2/2010 6:32 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > This is hard for me to phrase to get my point across... > > I thought it was a little brazen that he would try to re-sell me fish > from AquaBid at a higher price than he probably paid when I had > contacted him through AquaBid and therefore was familiar with AquaBid > fish and their comparable prices. > > Ya know what I mean??? > > He has many females on AquaBid -- so where are their brothers? > > If they are his own fish, are they sold already? Or is he simply not a > good enough salesman to think to offer any of them to me? > > As I said, I'm so disappointed that when I finally found a LOCAL > breeder/distributor, he turned out to be someone I don't want to do > business with. :o( > ~Kai > > > Amber Berglund wrote: > > > > It's possible that he was buying them for a lower price and > reselling them to make money. Or perhaps he was considering breeding > them and changed his mind. > > I would trust your instinct though and not buy from him, unless he > actually responds and clarifies why he is reselling the fish. > > > > Amber > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > As many of you know, I keep a few Bettas and am always > disappointed at the ill-bred ones I find at LFS. I drool at AquaBid > but can't justify the cost of shipping, especially if I only want ONE > fish to replace one I've lost. Well, imagine my delight when someone > from only about 40 miles away (and I have plans to be in his neck of > the woods TWICE this week) posted some Bettas for sale on there a few > days ago. No exaggeration, I was happy-dancing here at my computer! He > has females for sale on AquaBid. Not being a breeder, I'm not > interested in females, so I emailed and asked if he had males. His > replies were kinda monosyllabic -- maybe using a phone instead of a > computer. And he eventually sent me photos of the two males he had for > sale. > > > > > > My heart sank. > > > > > > They are two that I recognize as having been on AquaBid from other > sellers. (If they had been his listings, I would have noticed because > he's local.) He wanted $35 plus shipping (apparently he didn't > remember that I'm local) apiece -- though I doubt he paid more than > $20/ea for them. Had he bought them and been unhappy with them? Had he > bought and bred them? (Nah, not enough time...) Or was he trying to > SCAM me? So I told him that I recognized them as other people's fish. > "Do you have fish of your own?" He replied [sic] "Ya i do have my own > fish" > > > > > > And that was it -- no offer to sell them. Is he simply a bad > salesman? Or is he a scammer? Gut feeling says that I shouldn't trust > him. Bummer. I still want to get a good Betta. But not from him. > > > > > > Oh, I'm SOOOOOO disappointed. I FINALLY found a local breeder and > he turned out to be someone I don't care to do business with. > > > > > > Sigh, > > > ~Kai > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49671	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

Apple snails lay their eggs outside the water, they will take a lot of time and energy to crawl up the side of the tank and out of the water just to lay their little pink egg batch. If you never noticed a large pink blob around the edge of your tank or on the side of a HOB (hang on back) filter then you are probably noticing pest/pond snails such as Ramshorn snails (they have a similar shape to apple snails but they don't have a "trap door" that closes and seals their shell closed behind them). Amber On 12/2/2010 10:54 AM, jkw1860@... wrote: > Hi Bill and everyone else who took the time to read my post! Thank you! > > I keep all my tanks at 80 to 82 degrees. Do you think that is what made some of my fish die? None of them died right away except one gold fish. The others took months and some I had over a year. > > The goldfish were tiny when I got them. I got them for 13 cents each. I am going to build them a pond this spring. Someone said they have them in the horse trough too. I wonder about this because my trough is filled up from a faucet. I haven't asked if they treat the water at all. My trough is only 100 gal. Anyway I would rather have a pond! > > Also I think my apple snail had babies too. Can't tell yet as they are quite small. But I didn't have any snails until I got the apple snails. One died about 2 months after I got them so I only have one left. I have pictures of my fish and would like to post them as soon as I figure it out. > > Cheers > > Judy > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bill 1433<warrenprint@...> > > Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:43:29 > > To:<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber > > > > Hi Judy! > > > > Welcome! Just to add to \\Steve's// posting. On the Rams? They love heat! > > If you would like to keep them happy, a tank at 82 to 84 degrees is advisable. > > Obviously at this temperature, you should double check on the other tank mates as to their temperature requirements, not all will fit in this higher range. > > > > "I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams". \\Steve// is just kidding honest!<G> Enjoy the Rams, they are great fish! > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > On Wed, 12/1/10, Steve Szabo<steve@...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Steve Szabo<steve@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 PM > > > > > > Judy, > > > > Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to have the rams > > breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a couple of comments > > to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank is not large > > enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A goldfish requires > > at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in less water when > > they are young and small, but they should be growing quickly at this time in > > their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. Comets, in particular > > need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty fish. In other > > words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger volume of water > > helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous about your water > > changes and filter maintenance. > > > > Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The ram is a tropical > > fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for this are legion, but > > a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different temperature > > ranges, disease organisms that are not normally fatal to one can be fatal > > to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the temperate fish > > requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher temperature may not > > allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since they need very > > soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to nitrogenous wastes > > than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality that is different > > from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in this regard. > > > > I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for > > you apparent success with your rams. > > > > This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure others will, be > > glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I have given here, > > as well as delving further into other topics about your fish and tanks. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of judith > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber > > > > Hi all, > > I am new and I have 3 tanks. I had a tank several years ago, but my husband > > and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed > > everything I had. I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. > > Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I > > have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange > > neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple > > snail. I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but > > when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them. So I got a 2.5 > > gallon tank and he lives in there. He is the only original fish I have > > left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to > > help cycle it. There are 3 left. > > When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they > > had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies. So I brought > > her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on > > the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, > > so I moved him over to the betta tank. Now he resides with the comet gold > > fish. The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean > > with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection. I removed > > the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then > > I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it > > back up and put him back in there and added salt. He started getting > > better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting > > better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked! I have tried > > to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to > > save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped. I > > was so glad when the betta lived. He is healthy and happy in his little > > tank now. > > My rams had babies twice. 2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the > > second. I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving > > in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and > > I am keeping the other one. He (or she) is smaller than the other two. > > Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could > > care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. > > :) > > Thanks for reading! > > Judy > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience& ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply& if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)"<- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience& ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply& if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)"<- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49672	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

I'm bren, the resident goldfish freak. 80 is too hot for a goldfish. They would be so happy in your trough, even better a pretty pond. You could put them in the trough first then transfer them later. Use dechlorinator for the water. In a trough or pond leave at least 10 gallons or more per fish and get very good filtration. You'll need it because you'll be surprised how big they get in a pond. I had a 16 inch shubunkin (blue and pink calico goldfish). Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: jkw1860@... Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 19:54:07 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Bill and everyone else who took the time to read my post! Thank you! I keep all my tanks at 80 to 82 degrees. Do you think that is what made some of my fish die? None of them died right away except one gold fish. The others took months and some I had over a year. The goldfish were tiny when I got them. I got them for 13 cents each. I am going to build them a pond this spring. Someone said they have them in the horse trough too. I wonder about this because my trough is filled up from a faucet. I haven't asked if they treat the water at all. My trough is only 100 gal. Anyway I would rather have a pond! Also I think my apple snail had babies too. Can't tell yet as they are quite small. But I didn't have any snails until I got the apple snails. One died about 2 months after I got them so I only have one left. I have pictures of my fish and would like to post them as soon as I figure it out. Cheers Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:43:29 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Judy!   Welcome!  Just to add to \\Steve's// posting.  On the Rams?  They love heat! If you would like to keep them happy, a tank at 82 to 84 degrees is advisable. Obviously at this temperature, you should double check on the other tank mates as to their temperature requirements, not all will fit in this higher range.   "I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams".  \\Steve// is just kidding honest!  <G> Enjoy the Rams, they are great fish!   Bill On Wed, 12/1/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 PM Judy, Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to have the rams breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a couple of comments to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank is not large enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A goldfish requires at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in less water when they are young and small, but they should be growing quickly at this time in their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. Comets, in particular need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty fish. In other words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger volume of water helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous about your water changes and filter maintenance. Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The ram is a tropical fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for this are legion, but a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different temperature ranges,  disease organisms that are not normally fatal to one can be fatal to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the temperate fish requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher temperature may not allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since they need very soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to nitrogenous wastes than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality that is different from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in this regard. I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams. This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure others will, be glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I have given here, as well as delving further into other topics about your fish and tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks.  I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had.  I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail.  I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them.  So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there.  He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it.  There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies.  So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank.  Now he resides with the comet gold fish.  The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection.  I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt.  He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked!  I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped.  I was so glad when the betta lived.  He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice.  2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second.  I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one.  He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49673	From: haecklers	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour

I wonder if he is a re-seller. Some of the pet stores that sell on aquabid are pretty open that they are selling animals they get in lots from Thailand or somewhere. I bet you could get a good deal on a lot of female bettas since mostly there is only a market for the males. I'm not sure what we're going to do with all of our female bettas from our latest spawn! If there are 160 and half are female, that's 80 female bettas we need to find homes for! I was thinking of offering them on aquabid for like $0.25 each or something if people would take a lot of them. It looks like a lot of the females come out plain brown/striped (from pictures I've seen online). Do they just cull them and only keep the attractive ones? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > This is hard for me to phrase to get my point across... > > I thought it was a little brazen that he would try to re-sell me fish from AquaBid at a higher price than he probably paid when I had contacted him through AquaBid and therefore was familiar with AquaBid fish and their comparable prices. > > Ya know what I mean??? > > He has many females on AquaBid -- so where are their brothers? > > If they are his own fish, are they sold already? Or is he simply not a good enough salesman to think to offer any of them to me? > > As I said, I'm so disappointed that when I finally found a LOCAL breeder/distributor, he turned out to be someone I don't want to do business with. :o( > ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49674	From: llmdolphin	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank

In a matter of a few hours, my tank developed this kelly green stuff all over my big rock, the live plants and it is spreading throughout the gravel. Its also on the glass and even on the hood where water splashes up from my filter. Any ideas? Any suggestions? Thanks, Laura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49675	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank

Kelly green fibers? Or blue green sheets, maybe even gelatinous looking? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of llmdolphin Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 7:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank In a matter of a few hours, my tank developed this kelly green stuff all over my big rock, the live plants and it is spreading throughout the gravel. Its also on the glass and even on the hood where water splashes up from my filter. Any ideas? Any suggestions? Thanks, Laura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49676	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

Judy, You may have guessed that you just might have your tank temperature set a bit too high. Out of the collection of fish you have, the only ones who would be comfortable in that range, the rams and the betta. The goldfish are really uncomfortable in that range. Room temperature is more than enough for them, but they might even like it lower than that. I am not familiar with the orange neon tetra, but doing a bit of looking, are they not a variety of the von rio tetra? Most plecos prefer lower temps, in the low 70°F range, but not all. The barbs would do best in the mid 70°F range. I also looked for a simple chart to show you some dissolved oxygen (DO) saturation points, but did not see any that would be easily understood. So, you will just have to believe us when we say the DO saturation points decrease as the water gets warmer. The goldfish you lost may have been the result of the temperature and a lack of oxygen available in the water, but it could have easily been done in by about a thousand other things. The price point you mention suggests that the goldfish were being sold as feeders. As such, they are not given the best of care during their short (because they get eaten) life spans, and there is a higher loss ratio with the feeders. As was mentioned, the higher temperatures do reduce the lifespan of fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jkw1860@... Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Bill and everyone else who took the time to read my post! Thank you! I keep all my tanks at 80 to 82 degrees. Do you think that is what made some of my fish die? None of them died right away except one gold fish. The others took months and some I had over a year. The goldfish were tiny when I got them. I got them for 13 cents each. I am going to build them a pond this spring. Someone said they have them in the horse trough too. I wonder about this because my trough is filled up from a faucet. I haven't asked if they treat the water at all. My trough is only 100 gal. Anyway I would rather have a pond! Also I think my apple snail had babies too. Can't tell yet as they are quite small. But I didn't have any snails until I got the apple snails. One died about 2 months after I got them so I only have one left. I have pictures of my fish and would like to post them as soon as I figure it out. Cheers Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:43:29 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Judy!   Welcome!  Just to add to \\Steve's// posting.  On the Rams?  They love heat! If you would like to keep them happy, a tank at 82 to 84 degrees is advisable. Obviously at this temperature, you should double check on the other tank mates as to their temperature requirements, not all will fit in this higher range.   "I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams".  \\Steve// is just kidding honest!  <G> Enjoy the Rams, they are great fish!   Bill On Wed, 12/1/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 PM Judy, Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to have the rams breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a couple of comments to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank is not large enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A goldfish requires at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in less water when they are young and small, but they should be growing quickly at this time in their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. Comets, in particular need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty fish. In other words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger volume of water helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous about your water changes and filter maintenance. Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The ram is a tropical fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for this are legion, but a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different temperature ranges,  disease organisms that are not normally fatal to one can be fatal to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the temperate fish requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher temperature may not allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since they need very soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to nitrogenous wastes than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality that is different from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in this regard. I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams. This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure others will, be glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I have given here, as well as delving further into other topics about your fish and tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks.  I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had.  I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail.  I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them.  So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there.  He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it.  There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies.  So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank.  Now he resides with the comet gold fish.  The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection.  I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt.  He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked!  I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped.  I was so glad when the betta lived.  He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice.  2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second.  I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one.  He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49677	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/2/2010
Subject: Re: Rant du Jour

Yes it's common for breeders to cull the fish that aren't healthy/bad fins or just don't have the coloring they are looking for (if they get a lot of babies and they're all ugly it's going to be a hard time getting rid of all those babies when they get older). It's better to cull it young if the fish isn't going to live a very long life because it can't swim properly (due to misshapen fins etc), or it's just not a very healthy fish. Or if the breeder knows they aren't going to be able to get rid of a bunch of (in this case female betta's) fish and would run out of room trying to grow them all up. I considered breeding my 2 male bettas to the 5 females I have, but I don't know what I would do with 200+ babies all in cups around my house! My hubby would kill me, LOL. Amber On 12/2/2010 11:57 AM, haecklers wrote: > > I wonder if he is a re-seller. Some of the pet stores that sell on > aquabid are pretty open that they are selling animals they get in lots > from Thailand or somewhere. I bet you could get a good deal on a lot > of female bettas since mostly there is only a market for the males. > > I'm not sure what we're going to do with all of our female bettas from > our latest spawn! If there are 160 and half are female, that's 80 > female bettas we need to find homes for! I was thinking of offering > them on aquabid for like $0.25 each or something if people would take > a lot of them. > > It looks like a lot of the females come out plain brown/striped (from > pictures I've seen online). Do they just cull them and only keep the > attractive ones? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > > This is hard for me to phrase to get my point across... > > > > I thought it was a little brazen that he would try to re-sell me > fish from AquaBid at a higher price than he probably paid when I had > contacted him through AquaBid and therefore was familiar with AquaBid > fish and their comparable prices. > > > > Ya know what I mean??? > > > > He has many females on AquaBid -- so where are their brothers? > > > > If they are his own fish, are they sold already? Or is he simply not > a good enough salesman to think to offer any of them to me? > > > > As I said, I'm so disappointed that when I finally found a LOCAL > breeder/distributor, he turned out to be someone I don't want to do > business with. :o( > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49678	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: Lumen output question for lighting

That is all correct. Plants need red and blue light for photosynthesis, so a light high in red (3000K) but with very little blue will not be as good as one that is more balanced (around 6500K which is close to mid-day sun). Algae can make use of any light, so when the plants cannot fully use the light being provided, algae takes advantage. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Please correct me if I'm wrong but that Kelvin number doesn't indicate how bright or strong the light is. It represents its color temperature. Higher numbers are closer to the blue ("cool") end of the color spectrum. Lower numbers are "warmer" red/yellow tones. > > While higher wattage usually corresponds with brighter output, it is actually higher power consumption. > > Incandescent lights put out quite a bit of heat. Ever touch a HOT light bulb??? On the other hand, those fluorescents stay relatively cool. And the amount of heat that LEDs emit is negligible. > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > A bulb with such a low Kelvin as 3000 will "work" but algae will likely be more problematic as the plants will be struggling. A natural daylight or full spectrum around 6500K is much better. I have two 10w GE daylight 6500K CF bulbs over my 20g, and I have used these over my 10g too, and they are fine. You will need to get the narrow ones to fit the 10g hood. A 5w bulb provided it is the same (6500K) might be sufficient (2 of them) if you can find them; I could only get the "warm white" 5w (the 3000K) and found them inadequate. I buy mine from the hardware/home improvement stores. > > > > Byron. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > So I'm looking to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs in my 10 gallon > > > hood with a CFL alternative. According to my research online I need to > > > get a 5 watt CFL to replace the 15 watt incandescent bulbs. There are > > > two bulbs in the hood. The CFL 5 watt bulbs are candelabra/decor bulbs > > > and I think they should fit in the hood (if anyone knows for sure that > > > would be great to know!). > > > They are 3000 kelvin, is this going to affect plants too badly? I don't > > > know if I can find a full spectrum candelabra 5 watt CFL, but I will > > > keep looking online. The CFL bulbs output 200 lumens. would 200 lumens x > > > 2 be sufficient light output for a 10 gallon? I don't know if I could > > > put higher wattage bulbs in the hood without causing problems (I don't > > > know how many watts the ballast can handle, or if it even has one). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49679	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

I have a heater in my trough for the winter but it only keeps the water warm enough not to freeze. Will the gold fish be ok? How would I go about transferring them? I don't know how to put a filter system on my trough. If it is something that would be conspicuous then it wouldn't work because one of my horses is very curious and would pick whatever I use to pieces! The gold fish are only 3 and they are about an inch long now. I could move my ram back in with my betta and turn the gold fish temp down. I read about the comet on line (don't remember where) and it said they do fine in higher temps. But if it is stressing them I will turn the heater down. I live in NE OK and it gets pretty cold in the winter. Would I need a pond heater for them? Also my community tank is 79 degrees. Thank you Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone -----Original Message----- From: safirezprincess@... Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 20:53:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new memeber I'm bren, the resident goldfish freak. 80 is too hot for a goldfish. They would be so happy in your trough, even better a pretty pond. You could put them in the trough first then transfer them later. Use dechlorinator for the water. In a trough or pond leave at least 10 gallons or more per fish and get very good filtration. You'll need it because you'll be surprised how big they get in a pond. I had a 16 inch shubunkin (blue and pink calico goldfish). Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: jkw1860@... Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 19:54:07 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Bill and everyone else who took the time to read my post! Thank you! I keep all my tanks at 80 to 82 degrees. Do you think that is what made some of my fish die? None of them died right away except one gold fish. The others took months and some I had over a year. The goldfish were tiny when I got them. I got them for 13 cents each. I am going to build them a pond this spring. Someone said they have them in the horse trough too. I wonder about this because my trough is filled up from a faucet. I haven't asked if they treat the water at all. My trough is only 100 gal. Anyway I would rather have a pond! Also I think my apple snail had babies too. Can't tell yet as they are quite small. But I didn't have any snails until I got the apple snails. One died about 2 months after I got them so I only have one left. I have pictures of my fish and would like to post them as soon as I figure it out. Cheers Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:43:29 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Judy!   Welcome!  Just to add to \\Steve's// posting.  On the Rams?  They love heat! If you would like to keep them happy, a tank at 82 to 84 degrees is advisable. Obviously at this temperature, you should double check on the other tank mates as to their temperature requirements, not all will fit in this higher range.   "I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams".  \\Steve// is just kidding honest!  <G> Enjoy the Rams, they are great fish!   Bill On Wed, 12/1/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 PM Judy, Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to have the rams breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a couple of comments to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank is not large enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A goldfish requires at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in less water when they are young and small, but they should be growing quickly at this time in their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. Comets, in particular need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty fish. In other words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger volume of water helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous about your water changes and filter maintenance. Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The ram is a tropical fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for this are legion, but a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different temperature ranges,  disease organisms that are not normally fatal to one can be fatal to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the temperate fish requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher temperature may not allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since they need very soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to nitrogenous wastes than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality that is different from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in this regard. I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams. This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure others will, be glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I have given here, as well as delving further into other topics about your fish and tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks.  I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had.  I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail.  I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them.  So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there.  He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it.  There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies.  So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank.  Now he resides with the comet gold fish.  The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection.  I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt.  He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked!  I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped.  I was so glad when the betta lived.  He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice.  2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second.  I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one.  He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49680	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

I will lower my community tank to 78? And remove the ram from the gold fish tank. I think I will just turn the comets heater off. My comets are so pretty. The liveliest one is white with an orange head. I knew they were feeders when I got them. I just thought they were pretty. I have had them for 4 months now. I think I will leave them in the tank until this spring when we will build them a pond. Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry� smartphone -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 22:24:45 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber Judy, You may have guessed that you just might have your tank temperature set a bit too high. Out of the collection of fish you have, the only ones who would be comfortable in that range, the rams and the betta. The goldfish are really uncomfortable in that range. Room temperature is more than enough for them, but they might even like it lower than that. I am not familiar with the orange neon tetra, but doing a bit of looking, are they not a variety of the von rio tetra? Most plecos prefer lower temps, in the low 70�F range, but not all. The barbs would do best in the mid 70�F range. I also looked for a simple chart to show you some dissolved oxygen (DO) saturation points, but did not see any that would be easily understood. So, you will just have to believe us when we say the DO saturation points decrease as the water gets warmer. The goldfish you lost may have been the result of the temperature and a lack of oxygen available in the water, but it could have easily been done in by about a thousand other things. The price point you mention suggests that the goldfish were being sold as feeders. As such, they are not given the best of care during their short (because they get eaten) life spans, and there is a higher loss ratio with the feeders. As was mentioned, the higher temperatures do reduce the lifespan of fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jkw1860@... Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 2:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Bill and everyone else who took the time to read my post! Thank you! I keep all my tanks at 80 to 82 degrees. Do you think that is what made some of my fish die? None of them died right away except one gold fish. The others took months and some I had over a year. The goldfish were tiny when I got them. I got them for 13 cents each. I am going to build them a pond this spring. Someone said they have them in the horse trough too. I wonder about this because my trough is filled up from a faucet. I haven't asked if they treat the water at all. My trough is only 100 gal. Anyway I would rather have a pond! Also I think my apple snail had babies too. Can't tell yet as they are quite small. But I didn't have any snails until I got the apple snails. One died about 2 months after I got them so I only have one left. I have pictures of my fish and would like to post them as soon as I figure it out. Cheers Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry� smartphone -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:43:29 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Judy! � Welcome!� Just to add to \\Steve's// posting.� On the Rams?� They love heat! If you would like to keep them happy, a tank at 82 to 84 degrees is advisable. Obviously at this temperature, you should double check on the other tank mates as to their temperature requirements, not all will fit in this higher range. � "I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams".� \\Steve// is just kidding honest!� <G> Enjoy the Rams, they are great fish! � Bill On Wed, 12/1/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 PM Judy, Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to have the rams breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a couple of comments to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank is not large enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A goldfish requires at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in less water when they are young and small, but they should be growing quickly at this time in their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. Comets, in particular need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty fish. In other words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger volume of water helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous about your water changes and filter maintenance. Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The ram is a tropical fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for this are legion, but a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different temperature ranges,� disease organisms that are not normally fatal to one can be fatal to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the temperate fish requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher temperature may not allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since they need very soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to nitrogenous wastes than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality that is different from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in this regard. I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams. This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure others will, be glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I have given here, as well as delving further into other topics about your fish and tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks.� I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had.� I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail.� I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them.� So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there.� He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it.� There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies.� So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank.� Now he resides with the comet gold fish.� The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection.� I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt.� He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked!� I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped.� I was so glad when the betta lived.� He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice.� 2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second.� I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one.� He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy ------------------------------------ AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.� Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49681	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

Just keeping the water from freezing is more than enough for the goldfish. For a filter, you probably want to look at a large sponge filter. To transfer the fish, I'd get a large container, a plastic bucket would be good, put enough tank water in it for the fish, add the fish, haul it to the trough, and start a slow drip with the trough water to slowly acclimate the fish to the new water environment. When the bucket is nearly full, net out the fish into the trough, or just pour the whole shebang into the trough. Fancy goldfish do better in warmer water than their ancestors, the common goldfish. By definition, the comet is a fancy goldfish since they are thinner and more streamlined than the common goldfish, and the tail is longer and pointed. It is a very active fish, and does need swimming room. Since it is only one step removed from the original, and it is so active, the warmer water may actually be detrimental to it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jkw1860@... Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 2:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new memeber I have a heater in my trough for the winter but it only keeps the water warm enough not to freeze. Will the gold fish be ok? How would I go about transferring them? I don't know how to put a filter system on my trough. If it is something that would be conspicuous then it wouldn't work because one of my horses is very curious and would pick whatever I use to pieces! The gold fish are only 3 and they are about an inch long now. I could move my ram back in with my betta and turn the gold fish temp down. I read about the comet on line (don't remember where) and it said they do fine in higher temps. But if it is stressing them I will turn the heater down. I live in NE OK and it gets pretty cold in the winter. Would I need a pond heater for them? Also my community tank is 79 degrees. Thank you Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone -----Original Message----- From: safirezprincess@... Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 20:53:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new memeber I'm bren, the resident goldfish freak. 80 is too hot for a goldfish. They would be so happy in your trough, even better a pretty pond. You could put them in the trough first then transfer them later. Use dechlorinator for the water. In a trough or pond leave at least 10 gallons or more per fish and get very good filtration. You'll need it because you'll be surprised how big they get in a pond. I had a 16 inch shubunkin (blue and pink calico goldfish). Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: jkw1860@... Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 19:54:07 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Bill and everyone else who took the time to read my post! Thank you! I keep all my tanks at 80 to 82 degrees. Do you think that is what made some of my fish die? None of them died right away except one gold fish. The others took months and some I had over a year. The goldfish were tiny when I got them. I got them for 13 cents each. I am going to build them a pond this spring. Someone said they have them in the horse trough too. I wonder about this because my trough is filled up from a faucet. I haven't asked if they treat the water at all. My trough is only 100 gal. Anyway I would rather have a pond! Also I think my apple snail had babies too. Can't tell yet as they are quite small. But I didn't have any snails until I got the apple snails. One died about 2 months after I got them so I only have one left. I have pictures of my fish and would like to post them as soon as I figure it out. Cheers Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone -----Original Message----- From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 05:43:29 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi Judy!   Welcome!  Just to add to \\Steve's// posting.  On the Rams?  They love heat! If you would like to keep them happy, a tank at 82 to 84 degrees is advisable. Obviously at this temperature, you should double check on the other tank mates as to their temperature requirements, not all will fit in this higher range.   "I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams".  \\Steve// is just kidding honest!  <G> Enjoy the Rams, they are great fish!   Bill On Wed, 12/1/10, Steve Szabo <steve@...> wrote: From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] new memeber To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:21 PM Judy, Welcome to the list. You must be doing something right to have the rams breed, particularly in a community. However, I do have a couple of comments to make, in particular your goldfish tank. A 20 gallon tank is not large enough for one goldfish, never mind the three you have. A goldfish requires at least 30 gallons of water. Sure, you can keep them in less water when they are young and small, but they should be growing quickly at this time in their lives, and should exceed 12" when fully grown. Comets, in particular need lots of room to swim. Goldfish are also known as dirty fish. In other words, they produce a lot of waste and ammonia. The larger volume of water helps to dilute this, but you still need to be assiduous about your water changes and filter maintenance. Tropical fish should not be mixed with temperate fish. The ram is a tropical fish. Your goldfish are temperate fish. The reasons for this are legion, but a few are that the two types of fish have vastly different temperature ranges,  disease organisms that are not normally fatal to one can be fatal to the other. Oxygen requirements are different, with the temperate fish requiring more oxygen available in the water than higher temperature may not allow. And so on. A ram is particularly problematic since they need very soft, acid water to do well and are more sensitive to nitrogenous wastes than most fish. While many fish can adapt to water quality that is different from that they come from, rams are particularly finicky in this regard. I am sure that Bill, our resident wannabe ram keeper, is cursing you out for you apparent success with your rams. This is pretty general in nature, and I will, as I am sure others will, be glad to discuss any of these issues with more detail than I have given here, as well as delving further into other topics about your fish and tanks. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judith Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] new memeber Hi all, I am new and I have 3 tanks.  I had a tank several years ago, but my husband and boys brought a fish from a creek home and put it in there and it killed everything I had.  I gave up when we moved from Texas to Oklahoma. Well I got a tank 2 years ago, a 26 gallon bow front tank and at present I have a rubber lipped placo, a striped algae eater, 2 gold barbs, 2 orange neon tetras, 2 bolivian ram cichlids with 3 of their babies, and an apple snail.  I got a Betta for one of my first fish and had him in there too, but when I got the rams, he became aggresive towards them.  So I got a 2.5 gallon tank and he lives in there.  He is the only original fish I have left. I got a 20 gal. tank this summer and I bought 4 comet gold fish to help cycle it.  There are 3 left. When I got my rams I got 2 males, then I went to the fish store and saw they had a female, and I thought it would be cool to have babies.  So I brought her home and she immediatly paired with my bigger male, and they picked on the smaller one so much that he had turned pale and I thought he would die, so I moved him over to the betta tank.  Now he resides with the comet gold fish.  The reason is because it was difficult keeping the little tank clean with 2 fish in there and so the betta got a bacterial infection.  I removed the ram to the 20 gal, and put the betta back in the cup he came in and then I dumped all his water and washed the gravel and everything then I filled it back up and put him back in there and added salt.  He started getting better, but his eye was popped out and that side of his head was not getting better, so I bought some medicated food for him and it worked!  I have tried to save a guppy that got a growth and she died anyway, and I also tried to save a cory cat that started listing to starboard, but nothing helped.  I was so glad when the betta lived.  He is healthy and happy in his little tank now. My rams had babies twice.  2 survived from the first batch, and 3 from the second.  I have given away the first two to a friend and they are thriving in her 55 gal. 2 of the second batch are going to another friend shortly and I am keeping the other one.  He (or she) is smaller than the other two. Sorry it is so long, but I like talking about my fish and my husband could care less about them! ( he is the same about my horses) He is a dog person. :) Thanks for reading! Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49682	From: llmdolphin	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank

Its not gelatinous. Its like individual dots all over the place. ALso, it appears that some of those are growing into "bush-like" things and are a darker green. I have lost a couple of fish and snails so dont know if its due to this "stuff" or to some inbalance in my tank. Laura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Kelly green fibers? Or blue green sheets, maybe even gelatinous looking? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of llmdolphin > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 7:20 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank > > > > > > In a matter of a few hours, my tank developed this kelly green stuff all > over my big rock, the live plants and it is spreading throughout the gravel. > Its also on the glass and even on the hood where water splashes up from my > filter. > > Any ideas? Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > Laura > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49683	From: William M	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: new memeber

I built a goldfish pond filter by using a kitty litter box (new and not used) put a submersible pump (I used a sump pump) in and then covered it with aquarium gravel with the discharge going to a water fall (but you could skip this) and then covered the gravel with foam that was inert. The foam will act as a mechanical and biological filter (you will need to rinse it at intervals when it starts to get clogged up) and the gravel also acts as a biological filter. You will still need to do water changes. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, jkw1860@... wrote: > > I have a heater in my trough for the winter but it only keeps the water warm enough not to freeze. Will the gold fish be ok? How would I go about transferring them? I don't know how to put a filter system on my trough. If it is something that would be conspicuous then it wouldn't work because one of my horses is very curious and would pick whatever I use to pieces! The gold fish are only 3 and they are about an inch long now. I could move my ram back in with my betta and turn the gold fish temp down. I read about the comet on line (don't remember where) and it said they do fine in higher temps. But if it is stressing them I will turn the heater down. I live in NE OK and it gets pretty cold in the winter. Would I need a pond heater for them? > Also my community tank is 79 degrees. > Thank you > Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49684	From: llmdolphin	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank/pics posted

I posted an album with three pics of the "green stuff". Its hard to tell really what it looks like but everything green is not supposed to be there. The blurry stuff is where it is on the glass and then you can see it on the rocks, gravel and plants. :0( Laura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "llmdolphin" <lauralmetz@...> wrote: > > > Its not gelatinous. Its like individual dots all over the place. ALso, it appears that some of those are growing into "bush-like" things and are a darker green. I have lost a couple of fish and snails so dont know if its due to this "stuff" or to some inbalance in my tank. > > Laura > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > Kelly green fibers? Or blue green sheets, maybe even gelatinous looking? > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of llmdolphin > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 7:20 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank > > > > > > > > > > > > In a matter of a few hours, my tank developed this kelly green stuff all > > over my big rock, the live plants and it is spreading throughout the gravel. > > Its also on the glass and even on the hood where water splashes up from my > > filter. > > > > Any ideas? Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks, > > Laura > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > I

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49685	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/3/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank/pics posted

Laura - That looks a lot like cyanobacteria to me - see here for images: http://www.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=aquarium% 20cyanobacteria% 20photo&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1277&bih= 887 When I get cyanobacteria I use 2ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per gallon tank water and I shut off my filters for an hour to protect the biofilter. Usually I have to repeat this once per day a few times to completely get rid of it. It will come back, though, if the underlying problem is not resolved. In my case it has always been a case of a biofilter that is not completely intact or mature. To cure this, I use Seachem Stability or there are other biofilter bacteria products like Tetra Safe Start and Dr Tim's One and Only. The cyano goes away once the biofilter is fully established. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 4, 2010, at 12:24 AM, llmdolphin wrote: > > I posted an album with three pics of the "green stuff". Its hard to > tell really what it looks like but everything green is not supposed > to be there. The blurry stuff is where it is on the glass and then > you can see it on the rocks, gravel and plants. > > :0( > > Laura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "llmdolphin" <lauralmetz@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Its not gelatinous. Its like individual dots all over the place. > ALso, it appears that some of those are growing into "bush-like" > things and are a darker green. I have lost a couple of fish and > snails so dont know if its due to this "stuff" or to some inbalance > in my tank. > > > > Laura > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > > > Kelly green fibers? Or blue green sheets, maybe even gelatinous > looking? > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of llmdolphin > > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 7:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New..question about kelly green algae/ > stuff in tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a matter of a few hours, my tank developed this kelly green > stuff all > > > over my big rock, the live plants and it is spreading > throughout the gravel. > > > Its also on the glass and even on the hood where water splashes > up from my > > > filter. > > > > > > Any ideas? Any suggestions? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > I > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49686	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank/pics posted

I get cyanobacteria when the plants are not doing well (not enough fertilizer). The plants leak fluid that the cyanobacteria consume. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lainey Alexander Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 1:42 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank/pics posted Laura - That looks a lot like cyanobacteria to me - see here for images: http://www.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=aquarium% 20cyanobacteria% 20photo&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1277&bih= 887 When I get cyanobacteria I use 2ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per gallon tank water and I shut off my filters for an hour to protect the biofilter. Usually I have to repeat this once per day a few times to completely get rid of it. It will come back, though, if the underlying problem is not resolved. In my case it has always been a case of a biofilter that is not completely intact or mature. To cure this, I use Seachem Stability or there are other biofilter bacteria products like Tetra Safe Start and Dr Tim's One and Only. The cyano goes away once the biofilter is fully established. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 4, 2010, at 12:24 AM, llmdolphin wrote: > > I posted an album with three pics of the "green stuff". Its hard to > tell really what it looks like but everything green is not supposed > to be there. The blurry stuff is where it is on the glass and then > you can see it on the rocks, gravel and plants. > > :0( > > Laura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "llmdolphin" <lauralmetz@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Its not gelatinous. Its like individual dots all over the place. > ALso, it appears that some of those are growing into "bush-like" > things and are a darker green. I have lost a couple of fish and > snails so dont know if its due to this "stuff" or to some inbalance > in my tank. > > > > Laura > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > > > Kelly green fibers? Or blue green sheets, maybe even gelatinous > looking? > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of llmdolphin > > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 7:20 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New..question about kelly green algae/ > stuff in tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a matter of a few hours, my tank developed this kelly green > stuff all > > > over my big rock, the live plants and it is spreading > throughout the gravel. > > > Its also on the glass and even on the hood where water splashes > up from my > > > filter. > > > > > > Any ideas? Any suggestions? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > I > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49687	From: llmdolphin	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Re: New..question about kelly green algae/stuff in tank/pics posted

I think you must be exactly right. I did very recently(prob within a week of this problem showing up) get a new biofilter so that is probably the problem. I will do as you suggest. Thank you so much for taking the time to look at my pics an help me. I am headed out to the stores today and will stop by the pet store and look into getting one of these products. I have peroxide here so will start that now. Thank you again! Laura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Laura - > > That looks a lot like cyanobacteria to me - see here for images: > http://www.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=aquarium% > 20cyanobacteria% > 20photo&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1277&bih= > 887 > > When I get cyanobacteria I use 2ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per gallon > tank water and I shut off my filters for an hour to protect the > biofilter. Usually I have to repeat this once per day a few times to > completely get rid of it. > > It will come back, though, if the underlying problem is not resolved. > In my case it has always been a case of a biofilter that is not > completely intact or mature. To cure this, I use Seachem Stability or > there are other biofilter bacteria products like Tetra Safe Start and > Dr Tim's One and Only. > > The cyano goes away once the biofilter is fully established. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 4, 2010, at 12:24 AM, llmdolphin wrote: > > > > > I posted an album with three pics of the "green stuff". Its hard to > > tell really what it looks like but everything green is not supposed > > to be there. The blurry stuff is where it is on the glass and then > > you can see it on the rocks, gravel and plants. > > > > :0( > > > > Laura > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "llmdolphin" <lauralmetz@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Its not gelatinous. Its like individual dots all over the place. > > ALso, it appears that some of those are growing into "bush-like" > > things and are a darker green. I have lost a couple of fish and > > snails so dont know if its due to this "stuff" or to some inbalance > > in my tank. > > > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Kelly green fibers? Or blue green sheets, maybe even gelatinous > > looking? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of llmdolphin > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 7:20 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New..question about kelly green algae/ > > stuff in tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a matter of a few hours, my tank developed this kelly green > > stuff all > > > > over my big rock, the live plants and it is spreading > > throughout the gravel. > > > > Its also on the glass and even on the hood where water splashes > > up from my > > > > filter. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49688	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Holidays In Japan

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3418&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_2_2010&utm_term=Christmas_lights_-_powered_by_an_Electric_eel!&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/295p65v Christmas lights - powered by an Electric eel! Copyright (c) Thinkstock For five years in a row, a Japanese aquarium has put up a shocking display for Christmas. The Enoshima Aquarium in Kamakura, just south of Tokyo, has been using an Electric eel (Electrophorus electricus) to light up a Christmas tree during the holiday season. Two aluminum panels in the tank serve as electrodes, causing a two-metre tall Christmas tree to light up in intermittent flashes whenever the eel moves. Check out the video below: This year, the eel is joined by a robotic Santa Claus, who is activated to sing and dance whenever visitors stomp on an electric floor pad (the pad also helps light up the tree). According to Kazuhiko Minawa, a member of the aquarium's public relations team that designed and built the display: "We first decided to get an electric eel to light up a Christmas tree and its top ornament using its electricity. As electric eels use their muscles when generating a charge, we also thought to get humans to use their muscles to light up parts of the tree". The display was put up by the aquarium to encourage ecological sensitivity among its visitors. Published: Heok Hee Ng Thursday 2 December 2010, 10:25 am [see video at link.] \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49689	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Weird Fish of the Week

Weird fish of the week: Ocean sunfish This week's weird fish is another species that can be found swimming off UK shores. The Ocean sunfish, Mola mola, is weird in so many ways... On first inspection, the fish looks more like half a fish, as it appears to be little more than a head with stiff, pointed dorsal and ventral fins attached. Instead of a true tail fin, the sunfish has a structure known as a 'clavus' formed from elements of the dorsal and anal fins. This 'pseudo-tail' is of little use for propulsion, so the sunfish relies on moving its enlarged dorsal and ventral fins in a characteristic 'sculling' motion to get around, in a way similar to triggerfish to which they are related, both being from the order Tetradontiformes. Sunfish are also the world's heaviest bony fish, with specimens weighing up to 2300kg (5100lb), measuring 3.3m (10.8ft) long and 4.2m(14ft) from dorsal to ventral fin tip recorded. The fishes' huge size is achievable by a skeleton made largely from cartilaginous tissues which are lighter than bone, despite its bony fish ancestry. Its scientific name comes from the Latin for 'millstone', alluding to its rounded, flattened shape and grey coloration, while its common name comes from its habit of appearing to sunbathe on the sea's surface. It is speculated that this behaviour serves the dual purpose of allowing the fish to warm itself in cooler waters, as well as attracting sea birds that remove parasites from its skin. Little is known of their reproduction, but females can produce over 300 million eggs at a time - more than any other known vertebrate. They feed largely on jellyfish, but will also eat squid, crustaceans, small fish, eel grass and salps (a type of free swimming tunicate). Published: Bob Mehen Thursday 2 December 2010, 10:16 am \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49690	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/4/2010
Subject: Re: Weird Fish of the Week

You guys may want to know the link to the weird fish. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3416&utm_source=PFK_ne wsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_2_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_o f_the_week:_Ocean_sunfish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2bw9dgw \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 12:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Weird Fish of the Week Weird fish of the week: Ocean sunfish This week's weird fish is another species that can be found swimming off UK shores. The Ocean sunfish, Mola mola, is weird in so many ways... On first inspection, the fish looks more like half a fish, as it appears to be little more than a head with stiff, pointed dorsal and ventral fins attached. Instead of a true tail fin, the sunfish has a structure known as a 'clavus' formed from elements of the dorsal and anal fins. This 'pseudo-tail' is of little use for propulsion, so the sunfish relies on moving its enlarged dorsal and ventral fins in a characteristic 'sculling' motion to get around, in a way similar to triggerfish to which they are related, both being from the order Tetradontiformes. Sunfish are also the world's heaviest bony fish, with specimens weighing up to 2300kg (5100lb), measuring 3.3m (10.8ft) long and 4.2m(14ft) from dorsal to ventral fin tip recorded. The fishes' huge size is achievable by a skeleton made largely from cartilaginous tissues which are lighter than bone, despite its bony fish ancestry. Its scientific name comes from the Latin for 'millstone', alluding to its rounded, flattened shape and grey coloration, while its common name comes from its habit of appearing to sunbathe on the sea's surface. It is speculated that this behaviour serves the dual purpose of allowing the fish to warm itself in cooler waters, as well as attracting sea birds that remove parasites from its skin. Little is known of their reproduction, but females can produce over 300 million eggs at a time - more than any other known vertebrate. They feed largely on jellyfish, but will also eat squid, crustaceans, small fish, eel grass and salps (a type of free swimming tunicate). Published: Bob Mehen Thursday 2 December 2010, 10:16 am \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49691	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Meet Our Scientist: Mike Henley, Coral Whisperer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znY4QvXhxu8 Smithsonian scientist Mike Henley explains his coral research. \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49692	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Two For Christmas

Merry Christmas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6t9ptmcb9Y Goldy The Goldfish in "Merry Christmas To You ! ! !" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip8VtEoaOXE \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49693	From: Amy Monroe	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Goldfish With Tumors

I have had goldfish before but these are my first as an adult. I have a stunted koi (given to me by my brother-in-law), a black moor, 3 fantail goldfish and a pleco in a 29 gallon tank. I just found out that's not enough room for them to grow and I plan to move the 3 fantails as soon as I get another tank set up, I've only had them since July or August. Yesterday I noticed that my calico fantail has a tumor. I've been reading and I understand that it's common and incurable. :( I was just wondering if anyone knows how to tell if it's cancer or not. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49694	From: Amy Monroe	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish With Tumors

And just so everyone knows, I would have never intentionally overcrowded my fish and I had nothing to do with the koi being stunted. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Amy Monroe" <amyfayemonroe@...> wrote: > > I have had goldfish before but these are my first as an adult. I have a stunted koi (given to me by my brother-in-law), a black moor, 3 fantail goldfish and a pleco in a 29 gallon tank. I just found out that's not enough room for them to grow and I plan to move the 3 fantails as soon as I get another tank set up, I've only had them since July or August. > > Yesterday I noticed that my calico fantail has a tumor. I've been reading and I understand that it's common and incurable. :( I was just wondering if anyone knows how to tell if it's cancer or not. Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49695	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/5/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish With Tumors

I'm sorry, but I cannot answer your question about your calico. However, I did want to mention that the koi is actually a pond fish, and have been bred to be viewed from the top. If you are not planning on building an outdoor pond, you can have a small one indoors. You can get one of those fiberglass ponds at your garden center and build a nice frame to surround and hold it, or you can use the cheapest kiddie pool you can find. The cheap ones do not contain the various *cides that are found in the more expensive ones and are generally harmful to the fish. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amy Monroe Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 6:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish With Tumors I have had goldfish before but these are my first as an adult. I have a stunted koi (given to me by my brother-in-law), a black moor, 3 fantail goldfish and a pleco in a 29 gallon tank. I just found out that's not enough room for them to grow and I plan to move the 3 fantails as soon as I get another tank set up, I've only had them since July or August. Yesterday I noticed that my calico fantail has a tumor. I've been reading and I understand that it's common and incurable. :( I was just wondering if anyone knows how to tell if it's cancer or not. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49696	From: haecklers	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish With Tumors

Goldfish food can contain some of the cheapest ingredients - due to the industry thinking of them as "cheap" fish, I guess, and because the large ones eat so much. There is a lot of evidence that fish oil prevents cancer and that fish oil/omega 3 oil (can be from flax) is a part of some fairly successful alternative cancer "cures" - like the Budwig Diet, for instance. It might be worth it in the future if you are really attached you your fish to make an effort to give them healthier fats, like from brine shrimp, live worms (grindal worms aren't hard to raise), and frozen foods. Another cancer preventative/remedy is vitamin b-17. This occurs naturally in watercress and some other plants. Goldfish are big plant eaters but the "plant" in their foods is often waste from the soy oil manufacturing and other waste carbs, that don't have the nutrients of live green plants. So you can supplement with blanched zucchini, or better yet have a small tank where you grow duckweed and other aquatic plants and feed them to your goldfish several times a week. It may not be cancer - some parasites go into the skin and make a cyst there while they mature, then they burrow out and the cyst goes away. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Amy Monroe" <amyfayemonroe@...> wrote: > > I have had goldfish before but these are my first as an adult. I have a stunted koi (given to me by my brother-in-law), a black moor, 3 fantail goldfish and a pleco in a 29 gallon tank. I just found out that's not enough room for them to grow and I plan to move the 3 fantails as soon as I get another tank set up, I've only had them since July or August. > > Yesterday I noticed that my calico fantail has a tumor. I've been reading and I understand that it's common and incurable. :( I was just wondering if anyone knows how to tell if it's cancer or not. Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49697	From: Dawn Moneyhan	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Tumors

In answer to your question about the fish with the tumor(s)... the only way to know if its malignant or benign would be to have a tissue sample taken and put under a microscope.  Unfortunately there are not a lot of vets who work on fish and if you can find one, the expense is more than most people can afford. The good news is that with a proper sized tank, very clean water, and healthy food, the tumors, if benign, can go away.  I know this because I have worked with goldfish with tumors extensively over the years and have accomplished some amazing things.  I adopted an orphan ryukin that had been in a very crowded & dirty tank its first 2 yrs.  The fish's growth was severely stunted and it was blind in both eyes and covered in tumors by the time I got to it.  It took about 6 months or so, but eventually all of the tumors went away on their own, the only thing I was not able to do was restore the fish's eye sight or repair the internal damage that was caused by the stunting and bad conditions it had been in.  The fish only lived about 4 years after I brought it home.  The necropsy showed the extensive internal damage, so i was very surprised it lived as long as it did.  That was the worst situation I have had with goldfish tumors. Tips to help if the tumors are benign... get the fish into a very large tank (the bigger the better) alone if possible, so other fish are not picking at the tumors or causing it stress.  Daily 25% - 30% water changes will keep the water quality clean enough to help the fish's body recover and heal (as much as possible) as long as you don't overfeed.   Wide range of healthy food that is vegetable based is extremely important.  Duck weed and anacharis are great food options, along with algae sheets (be sure its not marine algae or meant for marine fish) and goldfish pellets make for a good, well rounded diet.  Temp kept in the 60's range is most effective.  65 - 68 degrees Fahrenheit is best for helping this sort of problem, and lots of aeration.  If you want to offer more details about the fish there may be more I can suggest.  I would need to know the approximate age of the fish, size of the fish, and current diet and expected tank size of the new tank, at very least.  And, lastly, just so you are forewarned... fan tail goldfish grow very large.  Average size for a healthy adult is 7 - 9 inches in length and as big around as a standard softball.  Even a stunted fish can grow to full potential size, (if there is not extensive internal damage).  I have one now that has done just that.  Freddy was about 3 inches when I brought him home about 5 yrs ago, and at that time he was about 2 - 3 yrs old.  I had my doubts he would grow normally due to the condition he was in and conditions he came from.  Once in a large tank alone with clean water, healthy food and a lot of love, he began to grow quickly and is now, 5 yrs later, at a healthy 9 inches in length.  He is being moved from his current 120 gallon tank to a 215 gallon within the next couple of weeks because the 120 is just not big enough to handle his waste output any longer.  He is the only fish in the tank and his water temp averages 50 - 60 degrees year round.  I hope that offers you some hope and prepares you for what is yet to come with your own goldfish.  (In case you're wondering, Freddy is a ryukin/oranda mix)  I would be happy to post a photo of him if you're interested, just ask. The suggestions given to you about the koi were good ones, and I will agree with all that was said. I hope this helps. Dawn  Dawn Moneyhan Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist To learn more about me go to http://www.helium.com/users/449334 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49698	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Juvenile Albino aeneus cory

I noticed today that one of my baby albino aeneus cory's has not grown a tail fin. It has what looks like the start of the fin (has the shape of a fin at least), but it never finished growing. Is this normal in batches of fry to have fin problems? Should I euthanize him or keep him? He seems to get around okay, just has to try a bit harder than the other babies do. He's almost 3/4 of an inch long now. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49699	From: Amy Monroe	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Tumors

Thank you Dawn. I bought the 3 fantails over the summer from a pet store, of course had I known then what I know now I wouldn't have. The more I read on the subject the more disgusted I am. I'm just shocked that people have been keeping goldfish like this for years, it's just plain evil. I don't really think I have the money to provide for these fish the life they deserve. I did change 1/3 of their water last night and plan to do that every couple days from now on, even though their water didn't appear to dirty. Do tropical fish also have the same issues with stunting? I ask because I also have a 55 gallon tropical tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Moneyhan <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > In answer to your question about the fish with the tumor(s)... the only way to know if its malignant or benign would be to have a tissue sample taken and put under a microscope.  Unfortunately there are not a lot of vets who work on fish and if you can find one, the expense is more than most people can afford. > > The good news is that with a proper sized tank, very clean water, and healthy food, the tumors, if benign, can go away.  I know this because I have worked with goldfish with tumors extensively over the years and have accomplished some amazing things.  I adopted an orphan ryukin that had been in a very crowded & dirty tank its first 2 yrs.  The fish's growth was severely stunted and it was blind in both eyes and covered in tumors by the time I got to it.  It took about 6 months or so, but eventually all of the tumors went away on their own, the only thing I was not able to do was restore the fish's eye sight or repair the internal damage that was caused by the stunting and bad conditions it had been in.  The fish only lived about 4 years after I brought it home.  The necropsy showed the extensive internal damage, so i was very surprised it lived as long as it did.  That was the worst situation I have had with goldfish tumors. > > Tips to help if the tumors are benign... get the fish into a very large tank (the bigger the better) alone if possible, so other fish are not picking at the tumors or causing it stress.  Daily 25% - 30% water changes will keep the water quality clean enough to help the fish's body recover and heal (as much as possible) as long as you don't overfeed.   Wide range of healthy food that is vegetable based is extremely important.  Duck weed and anacharis are great food options, along with algae sheets (be sure its not marine algae or meant for marine fish) and goldfish pellets make for a good, well rounded diet.  Temp kept in the 60's range is most effective.  65 - 68 degrees Fahrenheit is best for helping this sort of problem, and lots of aeration.  > > If you want to offer more details about the fish there may be more I can suggest.  I would need to know the approximate age of the fish, size of the fish, and current diet and expected tank size of the new tank, at very least.  > > And, lastly, just so you are forewarned... fan tail goldfish grow very large.  Average size for a healthy adult is 7 - 9 inches in length and as big around as a standard softball.  Even a stunted fish can grow to full potential size, (if there is not extensive internal damage).  I have one now that has done just that.  Freddy was about 3 inches when I brought him home about 5 yrs ago, and at that time he was about 2 - 3 yrs old.  I had my doubts he would grow normally due to the condition he was in and conditions he came from.  Once in a large tank alone with clean water, healthy food and a lot of love, he began to grow quickly and is now, 5 yrs later, at a healthy 9 inches in length.  He is being moved from his current 120 gallon tank to a 215 gallon within the next couple of weeks because the 120 is just not big enough to handle his waste output any longer.  He is the only fish in the tank and his water temp averages 50 - 60 degrees year > round.  I hope that offers you some hope and prepares you for what is yet to come with your own goldfish.  (In case you're wondering, Freddy is a ryukin/oranda mix)  I would be happy to post a photo of him if you're interested, just ask. > > The suggestions given to you about the koi were good ones, and I will agree with all that was said. > > I hope this helps. > > Dawn  > > > > Dawn Moneyhan > Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist > To learn more about me go to > http://www.helium.com/users/449334 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49700	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/6/2010
Subject: Re: Goldfish with Tumors

Amy, You ask if tropical fish have the same issues with stunting. They do. Especially with the larger species. The old saw of one inch of fish per gallon of water is pretty much a non-starter. More than length goes into the amount of water needed per fish. Back in the mid-'80's a fellow by the name of Steve Meyers wrote a serried of articles that appeared in Aquarium Fish Magazine about this. While his articles were aimed at koi keepers, it has been found to be true for many fish. His method takes the mass of the fish, and calculates the amount of ammonia the fish is likely to produce. It also takes into account the efficiency of your biological filter. There is quite a bit of calculation involved. (What can you expect from an MIT professor?) Most tanks I see in the homes of normal hobbyists are overcrowded, but they do have a good degree of success because their tanks are over filtered, they end up with a good mix of fish, and they are scrupulous at cleaning the tank because they think that anything less than crystal clear water is cause for alarm. Also, most of the fish they keep are relatively small fish. Also, fish are generally a lot more adaptable than we think, though there are species that are troublesome because they are not so adaptable as others. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amy Monroe Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 9:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Goldfish with Tumors Thank you Dawn. I bought the 3 fantails over the summer from a pet store, of course had I known then what I know now I wouldn't have. The more I read on the subject the more disgusted I am. I'm just shocked that people have been keeping goldfish like this for years, it's just plain evil. I don't really think I have the money to provide for these fish the life they deserve. I did change 1/3 of their water last night and plan to do that every couple days from now on, even though their water didn't appear to dirty. Do tropical fish also have the same issues with stunting? I ask because I also have a 55 gallon tropical tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Moneyhan <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > In answer to your question about the fish with the tumor(s)... the only way to know if its malignant or benign would be to have a tissue sample taken and put under a microscope.  Unfortunately there are not a lot of vets who work on fish and if you can find one, the expense is more than most people can afford. > > The good news is that with a proper sized tank, very clean water, and healthy food, the tumors, if benign, can go away.  I know this because I have worked with goldfish with tumors extensively over the years and have accomplished some amazing things.  I adopted an orphan ryukin that had been in a very crowded & dirty tank its first 2 yrs.  The fish's growth was severely stunted and it was blind in both eyes and covered in tumors by the time I got to it.  It took about 6 months or so, but eventually all of the tumors went away on their own, the only thing I was not able to do was restore the fish's eye sight or repair the internal damage that was caused by the stunting and bad conditions it had been in.  The fish only lived about 4 years after I brought it home.  The necropsy showed the extensive internal damage, so i was very surprised it lived as long as it did.  That was the worst situation I have had with goldfish tumors. > > Tips to help if the tumors are benign... get the fish into a very large tank (the bigger the better) alone if possible, so other fish are not picking at the tumors or causing it stress.  Daily 25% - 30% water changes will keep the water quality clean enough to help the fish's body recover and heal (as much as possible) as long as you don't overfeed.   Wide range of healthy food that is vegetable based is extremely important.  Duck weed and anacharis are great food options, along with algae sheets (be sure its not marine algae or meant for marine fish) and goldfish pellets make for a good, well rounded diet.  Temp kept in the 60's range is most effective.  65 - 68 degrees Fahrenheit is best for helping this sort of problem, and lots of aeration.  > > If you want to offer more details about the fish there may be more I can suggest.  I would need to know the approximate age of the fish, size of the fish, and current diet and expected tank size of the new tank, at very least.  > > And, lastly, just so you are forewarned... fan tail goldfish grow very large.  Average size for a healthy adult is 7 - 9 inches in length and as big around as a standard softball.  Even a stunted fish can grow to full potential size, (if there is not extensive internal damage).  I have one now that has done just that.  Freddy was about 3 inches when I brought him home about 5 yrs ago, and at that time he was about 2 - 3 yrs old.  I had my doubts he would grow normally due to the condition he was in and conditions he came from.  Once in a large tank alone with clean water, healthy food and a lot of love, he began to grow quickly and is now, 5 yrs later, at a healthy 9 inches in length.  He is being moved from his current 120 gallon tank to a 215 gallon within the next couple of weeks because the 120 is just not big enough to handle his waste output any longer.  He is the only fish in the tank and his water temp averages 50 - 60 degrees year > round.  I hope that offers you some hope and prepares you for what is yet to come with your own goldfish.  (In case you're wondering, Freddy is a ryukin/oranda mix)  I would be happy to post a photo of him if you're interested, just ask. > > The suggestions given to you about the koi were good ones, and I will agree with all that was said. > > I hope this helps. > > Dawn  > > > > Dawn Moneyhan > Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist > To learn more about me go to > http://www.helium.com/users/449334 >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49701	From: mister_red	Date: 12/10/2010
Subject: gold mystery snail ?????s

i bought 1 the other day just 2 try it out i put it in with 2 ADF's and he hasnt come out yet i guess he did last night because he was moved unless frogs did it r they more active at night or wht my ph is 7.2 and i have a airrock and used spring water i read u can add a seashell 2 water 2 help out with snail is tht true my only concern is the snail afraid 2 come out becuz of frogs or water probs. any advice wood be appreciated thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49702	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Another Update: They're "better" but not good. The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49703	From: haecklers	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

What I've been doing lately to reduce the need for medications is lower the water level to half-full before medicating the fish. I use sponge filters so I can keep them in but some medications say to remove the filters before using anyway. Just remember to move the heater if you are using one, or it can break when you re-fill the tank. I hear you about the clouding - I had to do as close to 100% water change as I could on most of my tanks after dosing them with levamisole for camallanus. When I re-filled them the water got cloudy in some and in others the nitrates got high or the fish got bacterial infections. I think here the problem may be people fertilizing their lawns for the fall. I'm going to try to reduce my water changes and keep more floating plants (duckweed) in the tanks to use up the nutrients. The tanks that have a lot of duckweed are not suffering, it's the ones where the fish eat the duckeweed I'm having trouble with (and tinfoil barbs go into a FEEDING FRENZY over duckweed). For my tank that has tinfoil barbs, I put a plant to root in the water intake for the filter. One thing you can *try* in your tinfoil barb tank is to get a piece of sugar cane (if you know anywhere that sells it). It roots in water so you can put it in a bucket of water and see if you can get it to root. Then you can keep that part in your fish tank with the top sticking out one of those pop-outs for filters, etc. in the hood. Plant roots really suck up a lot of nutrients like ammonia, nitrates, potassium and phosphates that would otherwise feed bacteria and algae. The sugar cane would be tall enough to stick out the top, allowing it to get plenty of carbon dioxide for fast growth. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Another Update: > > They're "better" but not good. > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49704	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Re: gold mystery snail ?????s

It might take him a few days to get used to his new environment. I have adf too and they won't mess with eachother. One thing you need to do for your snail is feed him. He needs a cuttlebone and foods like spinache that are high in calcium. I'm not good with numbers but the ph of mystery snails needs to be in a certain range for their shells to grow smooth. You might be fine but you could google it. Be sure to seal the top of the aquarium as these snails are escape artists. Have fun. Bren Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "mister_red" <mister_red28@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 05:02:57 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] gold mystery snail ?????s i bought 1 the other day just 2 try it out i put it in with 2 ADF's and he hasnt come out yet i guess he did last night because he was moved unless frogs did it r they more active at night or wht my ph is 7.2 and i have a airrock and used spring water i read u can add a seashell 2 water 2 help out with snail is tht true my only concern is the snail afraid 2 come out becuz of frogs or water probs. any advice wood be appreciated thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49705	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Weird Fish of the Week: Giant oarfish

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3441&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_10_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_of_the_week:_Giant_oarfish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2enezgk Weird fish of the week: Giant oarfish This week's fish is in equal parts weird, spectacular and enigmatic. The Giant oarfish, Regalecus glesne, is surely one of the strangest yet most beautiful fish of the world's oceans. Growing up to 17m/56ft in length, they are the longest bony fish in the world - but very little is known about these rarely seen giants. Generally only observed close to the surface when dead or dying, their enormous, scale-less, metallic silver and black striped body in combination with a bizarre red dorsal fin and 'crest' are believed to have accounted for many historic sightings of "sea serpents". Their common name of "oarfish" is thought to be derived from their long, flattened body or the erroneous belief that in the absence of a significant caudal fin that they "rowed" themselves with their pectorals. In fact they have been filmed swimming using an undulating motion of their enormously long dorsal fin which has around 400 fin rays. Their other common name of "King of the Herrings" comes from fishermen sighting them near shoals of the fish which they believed were being led by the giant - it's scientific name also alludes to this, Regalecus being derived from the Latin 'regalis' meaning royal. They feed largely by straining zooplankton for euphausiid crustaceans (commonly known as krill), but also take small fish, squid and jellyfish. Distributed worldwide in tropical and temperate oceans, living largely in the mesopelagic zone between 200 and 1000 metres down, they are occasionally caught commercially but are of little value due to the gelatinous consistency of their flesh. Published: Bob Mehen Thursday 9 December 2010, 3:09 pm [Photos, pictures, and video available at link.] \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49706	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/11/2010
Subject: Caught on camera: The moment a shop tank bursts

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3435&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_10_2010&utm_term=Caught_on_camera:_The_moment_a_shop_tank_bursts&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/27v7aoq [Please view in IE to see video on site.] Caught on camera: The moment a shop tank bursts Copyright (c) Iowa Pet foods and Aquatics The security cameras at a US aquatic shop caught the moment that a huge aquarium burst, emptying around 1250 gal. of water all over the floor. Iowa Pet Foods and Aquatics, in West Des Moines, were greeted by 5cm/2" of standing water after the fish tank collapsed last Thursday. Luckily there was no livestock in the aquarium at the time and no one was injured. Check out the video below. Published: Practical Fishkeeping Wednesday 8 December 2010, 3:04 pm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49707	From: mister_red	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: snail worries.....

i had my snail since thurs i got at petsmart it is a gold mystery. i put in with 2 adf's in a 1 1/2 gal tank i havent seen any movement wht so ever but the 'door" is shut and he doesnt stink but i noticed when i rolled him over tonight he has a white film coming from its entrance dont kno wht it is is he dead or hibernating? thr is good news tho i was looking at tank this morning and discovered i have a baby snail he was crawling around hes real small but can c his shell and antennae he gets around pretty good so it shouldnt b my water cause he seems ok so i guess i got a dead snail when i purshased im taking back mon but wood still lik 2 kno whats wrong with him 1st

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49708	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Lowering the water to half sounds like a good idea though it would seem very crowded. But if it saves me $$$, I'm a happy camper. I've been doing 2-(big)-bucket changes every few days to keep cloudy-ness/milky-ness under control. The aggressive ones have been 5-buckets. This year, the water has not turned to pea soup as in other years. But the fish are just as sick as previous years -- and seems like for longer. The tinfoils have DEVOURED every live plant I've tried to put into the tank. I don't think any plant stands a chance with these guys. But I'll give it a try. Duckweed is easy to get. I don't know about sugar cane. Thanks for the good advice. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > What I've been doing lately to reduce the need for medications is lower the water level to half-full before medicating the fish. I use sponge filters so I can keep them in but some medications say to remove the filters before using anyway. Just remember to move the heater if you are using one, or it can break when you re-fill the tank. > > I hear you about the clouding - I had to do as close to 100% water change as I could on most of my tanks after dosing them with levamisole for camallanus. When I re-filled them the water got cloudy in some and in others the nitrates got high or the fish got bacterial infections. I think here the problem may be people fertilizing their lawns for the fall. > > I'm going to try to reduce my water changes and keep more floating plants (duckweed) in the tanks to use up the nutrients. The tanks that have a lot of duckweed are not suffering, it's the ones where the fish eat the duckweed I'm having trouble with (and tinfoil barbs go into a FEEDING FRENZY over duckweed). > > For my tank that has tinfoil barbs, I put a plant to root in the water intake for the filter. > > One thing you can *try* in your tinfoil barb tank is to get a piece of sugar cane (if you know anywhere that sells it). It roots in water so you can put it in a bucket of water and see if you can get it to root. Then you can keep that part in your fish tank with the top sticking out one of those pop-outs for filters, etc. in the hood. Plant roots really suck up a lot of nutrients like ammonia, nitrates, potassium and phosphates that would otherwise feed bacteria and algae. The sugar cane would be tall enough to stick out the top, allowing it to get plenty of carbon dioxide for fast growth. > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Another Update: > > > > They're "better" but not good. > > > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > > ~Kai > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49709	From: Elijah Salazar	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: snail worries

hi i breed mystery snails it may seem that your nitrates or nitrites are high if you could test your water for nitrates or nitrites possibly it could be the frog they can be a little feisty thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49710	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: snail worries.....

You can "test" a mystery snail to see if it is still alive or not, but don't do it in the tank or over the tank water just in case it isn't (you don't want dead snail matter in your tank if it can be avoided, its very messy and will cause a large amount of waste). Lift the snail out of the water gently, turn it over to expose the "trap door" or foot of the snail. With your finger, press lightly on that hard trap door. If you feel any resistance, the snail is still alive and should be put back into the tank. If there is no resistance or fluid & matter ooze out, this is a sure sign your snail is dead and should be disposed of away from the tank. For future reference, a mystery snail grows too large for a 1 1/2 gallon tank. If this snail is still alive you will want to find it a larger tank to accommodate its waste and rapid growth. 1 mystery snail should have at least 15 - 20 gallons of water and plenty of food. Most mystery snails will thrive on a large assortment of live plants. Bunch plants such as wisteria, ludwigias, and anacharis tend to be their favorites and they will strip the leaves off quickly as they feed. If using spinach be sure the snail eats all of it within a short time or remove the rest so it doesn't pollute the tank water. Leaf lettuce can also be used for mystery snails, as well as fish foods (pellet and flake foods are usually accepted). Best of luck to you. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mister_red" <mister_red28@...> wrote: > > i had my snail since thurs i got at petsmart it is a gold mystery. i put in with 2 adf's in a 1 1/2 gal tank i havent seen any movement wht so ever but the > 'door" is shut and he doesnt stink but i noticed when i rolled him over tonight he has a white film coming from its entrance dont kno wht it is is he dead or hibernating? thr is good news tho i was looking at tank this morning and discovered i have a baby snail he was crawling around hes real small but can c his shell and antennae he gets around pretty good so it shouldnt b my water cause he seems ok so i guess i got a dead snail when i purshased im taking back mon but wood still lik 2 kno whats wrong with him 1st >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49711	From: Ray	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Kai, In trying to follow up here, while also replying to your post (#49708) of today -- 12/12 -- I don't see a continuation in this same thread which would fill in many different facts that are no longer available in this latest version. I do recall you've had this same problem in the past and I even believe you may have fairly recently posted on it, but as I don't have a Subject line for it, that makes it harder to search for to bring back up any further information. One major item of info I would like to know is what size tank are you talikng about, that requires you to spend this much on medication? Aside from the fact that you could lower your water level, as has been pointed out, to enable you to use less medication in the same tank, with your spending $20 per course for Maracyn II -- or $100 every November to treat your fish -- it might appear that you don't mind paying top=dollar for your meds instead of seeking out more reasonable prices. Now, it always pays to support your mom & pop LFS whenever you can, as he will always give you his knowledgeable advice whenever you run into a problem, but there are extenuating circumstances when it comes to breaking your budget. Unless you have some aversion to having supplies shipped to you, why wouldn't you buy your medication from one of the reputable on-line supply houses, like Drs Foster & Smith -- who charge only $12.69 for 24 packets of Maracyn II -- enough to treat 240 gallons of water. If you buy two such containers of medication, this will treat 480 gallons of water. I would think this would be plnety, unless you're talking about a 100 gallon tank. AND, I believe that Drs Foster & Smith do not charge for shipping medications. As for trying to locate sugar cane -- forget it! Just use what many aquarists have used sine the middle of the last century, to use up any excess nitrogenous wastes -- the household plant -- IVY !!! Yes -- IVY. you can drape this from tank to tank having its roots dangled down into the water column -- it does a great job. After a while, you can even start giving some of this Ivy away to your neighbors! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Another Update: > > They're "better" but not good. > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49712	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Ray, The full thread seems to be clickable at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/49711 Now I know to order from: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4842 $15 per course plus $9 shipping. Thanks! That's only $69 per year. I was paying $20 per course plus shipping or appx $22-23 plus tax at my LFS. Worked out about the same. Two double-courses per year = 4 x appx $25 = close to $100. 24 packets of Maracyn II "does but doesn't" treat 240 gallons of water. It is 5-day single-course for a 55g tank. Dosing Instructions "First day, add 2 packets per 10 gallons of water. On the second through fifth day, add 1 packet per 10 gallons of water. Repeat this 5 day treatment only once if needed." That's 8 packets on the first day and 4 packets each for the next 4 days. I need to give my fish a double-course (as the directions say might be necessary.) And then I usually have to give them a 2nd double-course a couple of weeks later. ~Kai > > Ray wrote: > > Kai, > > In trying to follow up here, while also replying to your post (#49708) of today -- 12/12 -- I don't see a continuation in this same thread which would fill in many different facts that are no longer available in this latest version. I do recall you've had this same problem in the past and I even believe you may have fairly recently posted on it, but as I don't have a Subject line for it, that makes it harder to search for to bring back up any further information. > > One major item of info I would like to know is what size tank are you talikng about, that requires you to spend this much on medication? Aside from the fact that you could lower your water level, as has been pointed out, to enable you to use less medication in the same tank, with your spending $20 per course for Maracyn II -- or $100 every November to treat your fish -- it might appear that you don't mind paying top=dollar for your meds instead of seeking out more reasonable prices. > > Now, it always pays to support your mom & pop LFS whenever you can, as he will always give you his knowledgeable advice whenever you run into a problem, but there are extenuating circumstances when it comes to breaking your budget. > > Unless you have some aversion to having supplies shipped to you, why wouldn't you buy your medication from one of the reputable on-line supply houses, like Drs Foster & Smith -- who charge only $12.69 for 24 packets of Maracyn II -- enough to treat 240 gallons of water. If you buy two such containers of medication, this will treat 480 gallons of water. I would think this would be plnety, unless you're talking about a 100 gallon tank. AND, I believe that Drs Foster & Smith do not charge for shipping medications. > > As for trying to locate sugar cane -- forget it! Just use what many aquarists have used sine the middle of the last century, to use up any excess nitrogenous wastes -- the household plant -- IVY !!! Yes -- IVY. you can drape this from tank to tank having its roots dangled down into the water column -- it does a great job. After a while, you can even start giving some of this Ivy away to your neighbors! Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Another Update: > > > > They're "better" but not good. > > > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > > ~Kai > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49713	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Philodendrons are also good plants for sucking up excess nitrates. I would suspect that any robust growing plants are candidates for this, but keep in mind it should be a plant that does not mind getting its feet wet. This was the first I had ever heard of using sugar cane for this purpose. I cannot say whether it would work or not as advertised. I suspect that anyone who lives in a major metropolitan area that has a high percentage or Hispanics in the population would not have a problem finding sugar cane in the grocery store. Several, but not all, in this area carry it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 7:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes Kai, In trying to follow up here, while also replying to your post (#49708) of today -- 12/12 -- I don't see a continuation in this same thread which would fill in many different facts that are no longer available in this latest version. I do recall you've had this same problem in the past and I even believe you may have fairly recently posted on it, but as I don't have a Subject line for it, that makes it harder to search for to bring back up any further information. One major item of info I would like to know is what size tank are you talikng about, that requires you to spend this much on medication? Aside from the fact that you could lower your water level, as has been pointed out, to enable you to use less medication in the same tank, with your spending $20 per course for Maracyn II -- or $100 every November to treat your fish -- it might appear that you don't mind paying top=dollar for your meds instead of seeking out more reasonable prices. Now, it always pays to support your mom & pop LFS whenever you can, as he will always give you his knowledgeable advice whenever you run into a problem, but there are extenuating circumstances when it comes to breaking your budget. Unless you have some aversion to having supplies shipped to you, why wouldn't you buy your medication from one of the reputable on-line supply houses, like Drs Foster & Smith -- who charge only $12.69 for 24 packets of Maracyn II -- enough to treat 240 gallons of water. If you buy two such containers of medication, this will treat 480 gallons of water. I would think this would be plnety, unless you're talking about a 100 gallon tank. AND, I believe that Drs Foster & Smith do not charge for shipping medications. As for trying to locate sugar cane -- forget it! Just use what many aquarists have used sine the middle of the last century, to use up any excess nitrogenous wastes -- the household plant -- IVY !!! Yes -- IVY. you can drape this from tank to tank having its roots dangled down into the water column -- it does a great job. After a while, you can even start giving some of this Ivy away to your neighbors! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Another Update: > > They're "better" but not good. > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49714	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 12/12/2010
Subject: A New Book : Fauna Emiratus - Part One (November 2010).

Fauna Emiratus - Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates between 2004 - 2009. (ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4). By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. Fauna Emiratus - Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates between 2004 - 2009. Fauna Emiratus - Teil Eins. Zoologische Studien in die Vereinigten Arabischen Emirate zwischen 2004 - 2009. By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. (ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4). First Edition : November 2010. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm Selbstverlag / Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. P.O. Box 37038, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Uhlandstraße 6, D-66271 Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Literaturangaben. - Parallelsacht. in arab. Schr. – Text teilw. dt., teilw. engl., teilw. arab. - Teilw. in arab. Schr. Dr. Norman Ali B. Khalaf, 2010, ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4, Gebunden Hardback. 1. Auflage / First Edition: 350 Seiten / Pages. zahlr. schwarz-weiß Abbildungen - Format: 30 x 21,5 cm, Gewicht: 1.100 gram. Preis: 50,00 Euro. Erste Auflage / First Edition . November 2010 ISBN 978 – 9948 – 15 – 462 - 4 Alle Rechte vorbehalten / All Rights Reserved Copyright © 2010 by Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. Website of the Book: Fauna Emiratus – Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates between 2004 – 2009 (ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4): http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm E-mails: jaffacity@... & jaffa@... English / German Cover: The Whale Shark "Sammy" at the Palm Jumeirah Atlantis Hotel Aquarium, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Photo by Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, February 2010. Arabic Cover: An Arabian Leopard at the Breeding Centre for Endangered Arabian Wildlife, Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Photo by "Oryx", 2005. Cover Design / Umschlaggestaltung: Ola Mostafa Khalaf. Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Printed and bound in Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Preface : Given that the United Arab Emirates is primarily desert-land, the vegetation of the land is according to the terrain. So two categories of flora are to be found thriving on the land; one of these is the desert type that blossoms to life after the land receives rainfall, and the other is that which is capable of sustaining itself without much water. The second type depends on the salt in the ground, and include swam plants. So there are wild desert flowers, wild date palms, shrubs and grasses. The inventory of the fauna of the land is large, though not as diverse. There is the Jerboa, wildcat, fox, lynx, jackal, wolf, gazelle, hare, hedgehogs and mongoose. As far as avian fauna is concerned, there is some 250 species existent in the United Arab Emirates. The names of the birds which comprise the population are, harriers , kites, waders, buzzards, ospreys, eagles, terns, falcons, gulls, owls, flamingos and houbara – just to name a few. My first published scientific article goes back to January 1980, when I was still a student in the Zoology Department at Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. The article was about "The Colouration of Animals". Since that time, I had published many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, and established my own Palestinian Biological Bulletin. In July 1983, "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" was created. It was the First Palestinian Scientific Journal Worldwide (ISSN 0178 – 6288). Till now 96 "Gazelle" Issues were published. After moving with my family to the United Arab Emirates in 2004, I published my first scientific article about Emirati fauna in August 2004 and it was entitled "The Reptiles in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre in the Sharjah Desert Park, United Arab Emirates". Finally, and after more than 30 years in Zoological research and studies, in many Arabic and European countries, and after publishing many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, especially the "Gazelle Bulletin", and after publishing many articles in the Gazelle Bulletin Web Site, since 2001 under (www.gazelle.8m.net), and after publishing most of my articles on the internet under (www.webs.com), and after publishing my six books: "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983-2004" in July 2004, and my second book (Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2005) in August 2005, and my third book (Mammalia Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2006) in July 2006, and my fourth book (Felidae Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2007) in July 2007, and my fifth book (Carnivora Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 2005-2008) in September 2008, and my sixth book (Fauna Palaestina - Part One. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983-2006) in September 2009; I finally decided to publish a new scientific book containing all my "Emirati" research and articles which were published between 2004 - 2009. It is hard to be optimistic about the future of Wildlife in the Emirates. But recent years have shown the development of official and public interest, and efforts to conserve the Emirati Fauna. I hope that I can participate with my new book to our knowledge about "Fauna Emiratus", and to help and to be part in protecting the endangered Emirati and Arabian Fauna. Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. Al Nahda Suburb, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. 5th November 2010 (The 12th Birthday of my daughter Nora). Contents of the Book : English / German Articles : 1. Preface. 2. About the Author : A Palestinian Zoologist. 3. Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf). 4. The Arabian Freshwater Fishes in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. 5. A Bryde's Whale (Balaenoptera edeni) Stranding on Al Mamzar Beach, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. 6. The Arabian Amphibians in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. 7. Der Karakal oder Wüstenluchs (Caracal caracal, von Schreber 1776). 8. A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. 9. Royal Bengal Tigers (Panthera tigris tigris Linnaeus, 1758) at Dubailand Headquarters, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. 10. Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009: A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. 11. Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009: A New Mozambique Tilapia Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. 12. Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) at Sharjah Aquarium, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates 13. Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) Records from the United Arab Emirates between 1989 – 2009. 14. Der Jemen-Waran (Varanus yemenensis, Böhme, Joger und Schätti 1989) im Arabische Wildlife Centre, Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. 15. The Yemen Monitor (Varanus yemenensis, Böhme, Joger und Schätti 1989) at the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. 16. An ancient Arabian Ostrich (Struthio camelus syriacus) egg-shell from the Village of Qidfa', Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. 17. The Red-Necked Ostrich (Struthio camelus camelus Linnaeus, 1758) at Dubai Zoo, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Arabic Articles : 18. The Emirati Blind Cave Fish (Wikipedia – Arabic). 19. The Discovery of a new fish subspecies in Fujairah's Wadi Al Wurayah (Al Bayan Newspaper). 20. A Blind Cave Fish in Fujairah (Al-Bia Wal-Tanmia: Environment & Development Magazine). 21. The Emirati Tilapia Fish (Wikipedia – Arabic). 22. The Discovery of a second new fish in Fujairah (Al Bayan Newspaper). 23. Behavioural Observations on the Arabian Leopard (Panthera pardus nimr, Hemprich & Ehrenberg 1833) in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. 24. A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). 25. The Sumpters (Animals) of the Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him. 26. The Arabian Carnivores in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert Park, United Arab Emirates. 27. The Mammals in Dubai Zoo, Dubai City, United Arab Emirates. 28. The Reptiles in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre in the Sharjah Desert Park, United Arab Emirates. 29. Muqadimet Al-Kitab (Arabic Preface). 30. Book Contents (Arabic Section). About the Author : A Palestinian Zoologist : Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa is a Palestinian/German Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist. Born in Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany in 1962. Finished School in Kuwait. Studied Zoology, Geology and Ecology for the Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees at the Universities of Kuwait, Durham (England) and Ashwood (USA). Specialised in Animal Behaviour and Ecology. Done a lot of work and research in the Universities of Kuwait, Durham and Saarbrücken; and in the Zoos, Wild Parks and Field Studies in Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, England, Scotland, Jersey Island, France, Austria, Switzerland and Germany. He is the author and publisher of "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin", the first Palestinian scientific journal worldwide (since 1983); and the author of six books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin (2004), Aquatica Arabica (2005), Mammalia Arabica (2006), Felidae Arabica (2007), Carnivora Arabica (2008), Fauna Palaestina – Part One (2009) & Fauna Emiratus – Part One (2010). He discovered and scientifically named four new animal subspecies. Two Palestinian mammal subspecies from the Gaza Strip: The Gaza or Palestine House Mouse (Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007) and the Palestine Golden Jackal (Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008); and two Emirati freshwater fish subspecies: The Emirati or Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009) and the Emirati or Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009) from the Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. He is working now as a free scientific researcher and publisher in the United Arab Emirates. He is married to Ola Khalaf and has one daughter, Nora (12 Years). Copyright : Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa © 2010. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49715	From: Aquatic Life Group Owner	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: A New Book : Fauna Emiratus - Part One (November 2010).

Very interesting, Thank you for Sharing I found this website about one of the fish you discovered ~ http://emirati-tilapia.webs.com/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf" <jaffacity@...> wrote: > > Fauna Emiratus - Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates > between 2004 - 2009. (ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4). > By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. > > Fauna Emiratus - Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates > between 2004 - 2009. > > Fauna Emiratus - Teil Eins. Zoologische Studien in die Vereinigten Arabischen > Emirate zwischen 2004 - 2009. > > By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. > > (ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4). > > First Edition : November 2010. > > http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm > > > > Selbstverlag / Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. P.O. Box > 37038, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Uhlandstraße 6, D-66271 > Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. > > Literaturangaben. - Parallelsacht. in arab. Schr. – Text teilw. dt., teilw. > engl., teilw. arab. - Teilw. in arab. Schr. > > Dr. Norman Ali B. Khalaf, 2010, ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4, Gebunden Hardback. > > 1. Auflage / First Edition: 350 Seiten / Pages. zahlr. schwarz-weiß Abbildungen > - Format: 30 x 21,5 cm, Gewicht: 1.100 gram. Preis: 50,00 Euro. > > Erste Auflage / First Edition . November 2010 > > ISBN 978 – 9948 – 15 – 462 - 4 > > Alle Rechte vorbehalten / All Rights Reserved > > Copyright © 2010 by Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dubai and Sharjah, > United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. > > Website of the Book: Fauna Emiratus – Part One. Zoological Studies in the United > Arab Emirates between 2004 – 2009 (ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4): > > http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm > > E-mails: jaffacity@... & jaffa@... > > English / German Cover: The Whale Shark "Sammy" at the Palm Jumeirah Atlantis > Hotel Aquarium, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Photo by Dr. Norman Ali Bassam > Khalaf-von Jaffa, February 2010. > > Arabic Cover: An Arabian Leopard at the Breeding Centre for Endangered Arabian > Wildlife, Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Photo by "Oryx", 2005. > > Cover Design / Umschlaggestaltung: Ola Mostafa Khalaf. Dubai, United Arab > Emirates. > > Printed and bound in Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. > > > > Preface : > > Given that the United Arab Emirates is primarily desert-land, the vegetation of > the land is according to the terrain. So two categories of flora are to be found > thriving on the land; one of these is the desert type that blossoms to life > after the land receives rainfall, and the other is that which is capable of > sustaining itself without much water. The second type depends on the salt in the > ground, and include swam plants. So there are wild desert flowers, wild date > palms, shrubs and grasses. The inventory of the fauna of the land is large, > though not as diverse. There is the Jerboa, wildcat, fox, lynx, jackal, wolf, > gazelle, hare, hedgehogs and mongoose. As far as avian fauna is concerned, there > is some 250 species existent in the United Arab Emirates. The names of the birds > which comprise the population are, harriers , kites, waders, buzzards, ospreys, > eagles, terns, falcons, gulls, owls, flamingos and houbara – just to name a few. > > My first published scientific article goes back to January 1980, when I was > still a student in the Zoology Department at Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. > The article was about "The Colouration of Animals". > > Since that time, I had published many scientific articles in different > scientific books, magazines and bulletins, and established my own Palestinian > Biological Bulletin. In July 1983, "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological > Bulletin" was created. It was the First Palestinian Scientific Journal Worldwide > (ISSN 0178 – 6288). Till now 96 "Gazelle" Issues were published. > > After moving with my family to the United Arab Emirates in 2004, I published my > first scientific article about Emirati fauna in August 2004 and it was entitled > "The Reptiles in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre in the Sharjah Desert Park, United > Arab Emirates". > > Finally, and after more than 30 years in Zoological research and studies, in > many Arabic and European countries, and after publishing many scientific > articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, especially the > "Gazelle Bulletin", and after publishing many articles in the Gazelle Bulletin > Web Site, since 2001 under (www.gazelle.8m.net), and after publishing most of my > articles on the internet under (www.webs.com), and after publishing my six > books: "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in > Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983-2004" in July 2004, and my second book > (Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe > between 1980-2005) in August 2005, and my third book (Mammalia Arabica. A > Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2006) in July > 2006, and my fourth book (Felidae Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, > Arabia and Europe between 1980-2007) in July 2007, and my fifth book (Carnivora > Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 2005-2008) > in September 2008, and my sixth book (Fauna Palaestina - Part One. A Zoological > Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983-2006) in September 2009; I > finally decided to publish a new scientific book containing all my "Emirati" > research and articles which were published between 2004 - 2009. > > It is hard to be optimistic about the future of Wildlife in the Emirates. But > recent years have shown the development of official and public interest, and > efforts to conserve the Emirati Fauna. > > > I hope that I can participate with my new book to our knowledge about "Fauna > Emiratus", and to help and to be part in protecting the endangered Emirati and > Arabian Fauna. > > Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. > > Al Nahda Suburb, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. > > 5th November 2010 (The 12th Birthday of my daughter Nora). > > > > Contents of the Book : > > English / German Articles : > > 1. Preface. > > 2. About the Author : A Palestinian Zoologist. > > 3. Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus > coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian > Gulf). > > 4. The Arabian Freshwater Fishes in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert > Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. > > 5. A Bryde's Whale (Balaenoptera edeni) Stranding on Al Mamzar Beach, Dubai, > United Arab Emirates. > > 6. The Arabian Amphibians in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Desert Park, Sharjah, > United Arab Emirates. > > 7. Der Karakal oder Wüstenluchs (Caracal caracal, von Schreber 1776). > > 8. A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of > Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. > > 9. Royal Bengal Tigers (Panthera tigris tigris Linnaeus, 1758) at Dubailand > Headquarters, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. > > 10. Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009: A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies > from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. > > 11. Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009: A New Mozambique Tilapia > Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab > Emirates. > > 12. Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) at Sharjah > Aquarium, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates > > 13. Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) Records from the United Arab > Emirates between 1989 – 2009. > > 14. Der Jemen-Waran (Varanus yemenensis, Böhme, Joger und Schätti 1989) im > Arabische Wildlife Centre, Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. > > 15. The Yemen Monitor (Varanus yemenensis, Böhme, Joger und Schätti 1989) at the > Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. > > 16. An ancient Arabian Ostrich (Struthio camelus syriacus) egg-shell from the > Village of Qidfa', Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. > > 17. The Red-Necked Ostrich (Struthio camelus camelus Linnaeus, 1758) at Dubai > Zoo, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. > > > Arabic Articles : > > 18. The Emirati Blind Cave Fish (Wikipedia – Arabic). > > 19. The Discovery of a new fish subspecies in Fujairah's Wadi Al Wurayah (Al > Bayan Newspaper). > > 20. A Blind Cave Fish in Fujairah (Al-Bia Wal-Tanmia: Environment & Development > Magazine). > > 21. The Emirati Tilapia Fish (Wikipedia – Arabic). > > 22. The Discovery of a second new fish in Fujairah (Al Bayan Newspaper). > > 23. Behavioural Observations on the Arabian Leopard (Panthera pardus nimr, > Hemprich & Ehrenberg 1833) in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Desert Park, > Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. > > 24. A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) > (1938-2006). > > 25. The Sumpters (Animals) of the Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him. > > 26. The Arabian Carnivores in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert Park, > United Arab Emirates. > > 27. The Mammals in Dubai Zoo, Dubai City, United Arab Emirates. > > 28. The Reptiles in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre in the Sharjah Desert Park, > United Arab Emirates. > > 29. Muqadimet Al-Kitab (Arabic Preface). > > 30. Book Contents (Arabic Section). > > > > About the Author : A Palestinian Zoologist : > > Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa is a > Palestinian/German Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist. Born in Saarbrücken, > Saarland, Germany in 1962. Finished School in Kuwait. Studied Zoology, Geology > and Ecology for the Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees at the Universities > of Kuwait, Durham (England) and Ashwood (USA). Specialised in Animal Behaviour > and Ecology. Done a lot of work and research in the Universities of Kuwait, > Durham and Saarbrücken; and in the Zoos, Wild Parks and Field Studies in > Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates, > Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Holland, > Belgium, Luxembourg, England, Scotland, Jersey Island, France, Austria, > Switzerland and Germany. > > He is the author and publisher of "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological > Bulletin", the first Palestinian scientific journal worldwide (since 1983); and > the author of six books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin (2004), > Aquatica Arabica (2005), Mammalia Arabica (2006), Felidae Arabica (2007), > Carnivora Arabica (2008), Fauna Palaestina – Part One (2009) & Fauna Emiratus – > Part One (2010). > > He discovered and scientifically named four new animal subspecies. Two > Palestinian mammal subspecies from the Gaza Strip: The Gaza or Palestine House > Mouse (Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007) and the Palestine Golden Jackal > (Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008); and two Emirati freshwater fish > subspecies: The Emirati or Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae > wurayahi Khalaf, 2009) and the Emirati or Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia (Oreochromis > mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009) from the Emirate of Fujairah, United > Arab Emirates. > > He is working now as a free scientific researcher and publisher in the United > Arab Emirates. He is married to Ola Khalaf and has one daughter, Nora (12 > Years). > > > Copyright : Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa © > 2010. > > > http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49716	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: A New Book : Fauna Emiratus - Part One (November 2010).

beautiful fish, although I am prejudiced; I always kept tilapia mozambica (now oreochromis mosambica) as aquarium fish, the thought of eating the available hybrids in the market is not appealing to me. It would be nice if this new subspecies would become available in the trade. Enid ________________________________ From: Aquatic Life Group Owner <aquaticlifegroup@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 3:53:35 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: A New Book : Fauna Emiratus - Part One (November 2010). Very interesting, Thank you for Sharing I found this website about one of the fish you discovered ~ http://emirati-tilapia.webs.com/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf" <jaffacity@...> wrote: > > Fauna Emiratus - Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates > between 2004 - 2009. (ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4). > By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. > > Fauna Emiratus - Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates > between 2004 - 2009. > > Fauna Emiratus - Teil Eins. Zoologische Studien in die Vereinigten Arabischen > Emirate zwischen 2004 - 2009. > > By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. > > (ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4). > > First Edition : November 2010. > > http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm > > > > Selbstverlag / Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. P.O. Box > 37038, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Uhlandstraße 6, D-66271 > Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. > > Literaturangaben. - Parallelsacht. in arab. Schr. – Text teilw. dt., teilw. > engl., teilw. arab. - Teilw. in arab. Schr. > > Dr. Norman Ali B. Khalaf, 2010, ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4, Gebunden Hardback. > > 1. Auflage / First Edition: 350 Seiten / Pages. zahlr. schwarz-weiß Abbildungen > - Format: 30 x 21,5 cm, Gewicht: 1.100 gram. Preis: 50,00 Euro. > > Erste Auflage / First Edition . November 2010 > > ISBN 978 – 9948 – 15 – 462 - 4 > > Alle Rechte vorbehalten / All Rights Reserved > > Copyright © 2010 by Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dubai and Sharjah, > United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. > > Website of the Book: Fauna Emiratus – Part One. Zoological Studies in the >United > Arab Emirates between 2004 – 2009 (ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4): > > http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm > > E-mails: jaffacity@... & jaffa@... > > English / German Cover: The Whale Shark "Sammy" at the Palm Jumeirah Atlantis > Hotel Aquarium, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Photo by Dr. Norman Ali Bassam > Khalaf-von Jaffa, February 2010. > > Arabic Cover: An Arabian Leopard at the Breeding Centre for Endangered Arabian > Wildlife, Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Photo by "Oryx", 2005. > > Cover Design / Umschlaggestaltung: Ola Mostafa Khalaf. Dubai, United Arab > Emirates. > > Printed and bound in Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. > > > > Preface : > > Given that the United Arab Emirates is primarily desert-land, the vegetation of > the land is according to the terrain. So two categories of flora are to be >found > thriving on the land; one of these is the desert type that blossoms to life > after the land receives rainfall, and the other is that which is capable of > sustaining itself without much water. The second type depends on the salt in >the > ground, and include swam plants. So there are wild desert flowers, wild date > palms, shrubs and grasses. The inventory of the fauna of the land is large, > though not as diverse. There is the Jerboa, wildcat, fox, lynx, jackal, wolf, > gazelle, hare, hedgehogs and mongoose. As far as avian fauna is concerned, >there > is some 250 species existent in the United Arab Emirates. The names of the >birds > which comprise the population are, harriers , kites, waders, buzzards, ospreys, > eagles, terns, falcons, gulls, owls, flamingos and houbara – just to name a >few. > > My first published scientific article goes back to January 1980, when I was > still a student in the Zoology Department at Kuwait University, State of >Kuwait. > The article was about "The Colouration of Animals". > > Since that time, I had published many scientific articles in different > scientific books, magazines and bulletins, and established my own Palestinian > Biological Bulletin. In July 1983, "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological > Bulletin" was created. It was the First Palestinian Scientific Journal >Worldwide > (ISSN 0178 – 6288). Till now 96 "Gazelle" Issues were published. > > After moving with my family to the United Arab Emirates in 2004, I published my > first scientific article about Emirati fauna in August 2004 and it was entitled > "The Reptiles in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre in the Sharjah Desert Park, >United > Arab Emirates". > > Finally, and after more than 30 years in Zoological research and studies, in > many Arabic and European countries, and after publishing many scientific > articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, especially the > "Gazelle Bulletin", and after publishing many articles in the Gazelle Bulletin > Web Site, since 2001 under (www.gazelle.8m.net), and after publishing most of >my > articles on the internet under (www.webs.com), and after publishing my six > books: "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in > Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983-2004" in July 2004, and my second >book > (Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and >Europe > between 1980-2005) in August 2005, and my third book (Mammalia Arabica. A > Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2006) in July > 2006, and my fourth book (Felidae Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, > Arabia and Europe between 1980-2007) in July 2007, and my fifth book (Carnivora > Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between >2005-2008) > in September 2008, and my sixth book (Fauna Palaestina - Part One. A Zoological > Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983-2006) in September 2009; I > finally decided to publish a new scientific book containing all my "Emirati" > research and articles which were published between 2004 - 2009. > > It is hard to be optimistic about the future of Wildlife in the Emirates. But > recent years have shown the development of official and public interest, and > efforts to conserve the Emirati Fauna. > > > I hope that I can participate with my new book to our knowledge about "Fauna > Emiratus", and to help and to be part in protecting the endangered Emirati and > Arabian Fauna. > > Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. > > Al Nahda Suburb, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. > > 5th November 2010 (The 12th Birthday of my daughter Nora). > > > > Contents of the Book : > > English / German Articles : > > 1. Preface. > > 2. About the Author : A Palestinian Zoologist. > > 3. Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus > coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates >(Arabian > Gulf). > > 4. The Arabian Freshwater Fishes in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah >Desert > Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. > > 5. A Bryde's Whale (Balaenoptera edeni) Stranding on Al Mamzar Beach, Dubai, > United Arab Emirates. > > 6. The Arabian Amphibians in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Desert Park, >Sharjah, > United Arab Emirates. > > 7. Der Karakal oder Wüstenluchs (Caracal caracal, von Schreber 1776). > > 8. A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of > Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. > > 9. Royal Bengal Tigers (Panthera tigris tigris Linnaeus, 1758) at Dubailand > Headquarters, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. > > 10. Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009: A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies > from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. > > 11. Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009: A New Mozambique >Tilapia > Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab > Emirates. > > 12. Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) at Sharjah > Aquarium, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates > > 13. Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) Records from the United Arab > Emirates between 1989 – 2009. > > 14. Der Jemen-Waran (Varanus yemenensis, Böhme, Joger und Schätti 1989) im > Arabische Wildlife Centre, Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. > > 15. The Yemen Monitor (Varanus yemenensis, Böhme, Joger und Schätti 1989) at >the > Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. > > 16. An ancient Arabian Ostrich (Struthio camelus syriacus) egg-shell from the > Village of Qidfa', Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. > > 17. The Red-Necked Ostrich (Struthio camelus camelus Linnaeus, 1758) at Dubai > Zoo, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. > > > Arabic Articles : > > 18. The Emirati Blind Cave Fish (Wikipedia – Arabic). > > 19. The Discovery of a new fish subspecies in Fujairah's Wadi Al Wurayah (Al > Bayan Newspaper). > > 20. A Blind Cave Fish in Fujairah (Al-Bia Wal-Tanmia: Environment & Development > Magazine). > > 21. The Emirati Tilapia Fish (Wikipedia – Arabic). > > 22. The Discovery of a second new fish in Fujairah (Al Bayan Newspaper). > > 23. Behavioural Observations on the Arabian Leopard (Panthera pardus nimr, > Hemprich & Ehrenberg 1833) in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Desert Park, > Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. > > 24. A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) > (1938-2006). > > 25. The Sumpters (Animals) of the Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him. > > 26. The Arabian Carnivores in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert >Park, > United Arab Emirates. > > 27. The Mammals in Dubai Zoo, Dubai City, United Arab Emirates. > > 28. The Reptiles in the Arabia's Wildlife Centre in the Sharjah Desert Park, > United Arab Emirates. > > 29. Muqadimet Al-Kitab (Arabic Preface). > > 30. Book Contents (Arabic Section). > > > > About the Author : A Palestinian Zoologist : > > Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa is a > Palestinian/German Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist. Born in Saarbrücken, > Saarland, Germany in 1962. Finished School in Kuwait. Studied Zoology, Geology > and Ecology for the Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees at the Universities > of Kuwait, Durham (England) and Ashwood (USA). Specialised in Animal Behaviour > and Ecology. Done a lot of work and research in the Universities of Kuwait, > Durham and Saarbrücken; and in the Zoos, Wild Parks and Field Studies in > Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, >Emirates, > Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Holland, > Belgium, Luxembourg, England, Scotland, Jersey Island, France, Austria, > Switzerland and Germany. > > He is the author and publisher of "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological > Bulletin", the first Palestinian scientific journal worldwide (since 1983); and > the author of six books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin (2004), > Aquatica Arabica (2005), Mammalia Arabica (2006), Felidae Arabica (2007), > Carnivora Arabica (2008), Fauna Palaestina – Part One (2009) & Fauna Emiratus – > Part One (2010). > > He discovered and scientifically named four new animal subspecies. Two > Palestinian mammal subspecies from the Gaza Strip: The Gaza or Palestine House > Mouse (Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007) and the Palestine Golden Jackal > (Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008); and two Emirati freshwater fish > subspecies: The Emirati or Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae > wurayahi Khalaf, 2009) and the Emirati or Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia (Oreochromis > mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009) from the Emirate of Fujairah, United > Arab Emirates. > > He is working now as a free scientific researcher and publisher in the United > Arab Emirates. He is married to Ola Khalaf and has one daughter, Nora (12 > Years). > > > Copyright : Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa © > 2010. > > > http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49717	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Tomato plants are also nitrogen fiends and you can probably grow them from seeds. All you need is to squeeze a ripe tomato, wash the seeds thoroughly ( all the gel removed) start the seeds in a warm place ( like your kitchen) and then transfer them to the filter, as sugested for the sugar cane. I have used them before in floating islands in my pond, work fantastically. Enid ________________________________ From: Steve Szabo <steve@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 10:11:46 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes Philodendrons are also good plants for sucking up excess nitrates. I would suspect that any robust growing plants are candidates for this, but keep in mind it should be a plant that does not mind getting its feet wet. This was the first I had ever heard of using sugar cane for this purpose. I cannot say whether it would work or not as advertised. I suspect that anyone who lives in a major metropolitan area that has a high percentage or Hispanics in the population would not have a problem finding sugar cane in the grocery store. Several, but not all, in this area carry it. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 7:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes Kai, In trying to follow up here, while also replying to your post (#49708) of today -- 12/12 -- I don't see a continuation in this same thread which would fill in many different facts that are no longer available in this latest version. I do recall you've had this same problem in the past and I even believe you may have fairly recently posted on it, but as I don't have a Subject line for it, that makes it harder to search for to bring back up any further information. One major item of info I would like to know is what size tank are you talikng about, that requires you to spend this much on medication? Aside from the fact that you could lower your water level, as has been pointed out, to enable you to use less medication in the same tank, with your spending $20 per course for Maracyn II -- or $100 every November to treat your fish -- it might appear that you don't mind paying top=dollar for your meds instead of seeking out more reasonable prices. Now, it always pays to support your mom & pop LFS whenever you can, as he will always give you his knowledgeable advice whenever you run into a problem, but there are extenuating circumstances when it comes to breaking your budget. Unless you have some aversion to having supplies shipped to you, why wouldn't you buy your medication from one of the reputable on-line supply houses, like Drs Foster & Smith -- who charge only $12.69 for 24 packets of Maracyn II -- enough to treat 240 gallons of water. If you buy two such containers of medication, this will treat 480 gallons of water. I would think this would be plnety, unless you're talking about a 100 gallon tank. AND, I believe that Drs Foster & Smith do not charge for shipping medications. As for trying to locate sugar cane -- forget it! Just use what many aquarists have used sine the middle of the last century, to use up any excess nitrogenous wastes -- the household plant -- IVY !!! Yes -- IVY. you can drape this from tank to tank having its roots dangled down into the water column -- it does a great job. After a while, you can even start giving some of this Ivy away to your neighbors! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Another Update: > > They're "better" but not good. > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > ~Kai > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49718	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... tomato plants in my HOB filters... Ummmmmmmm.............. ~Kai > Enid Rodriguez wrote: > > Tomato plants are also nitrogen fiends and you can probably grow them from seeds. All you need is to squeeze a ripe tomato, wash the seeds thoroughly ( all the gel removed) start the seeds in a warm place ( like your kitchen) and then transfer them to the filter, as sugested for the sugar cane. I have used them before in floating islands in my pond, work fantastically. > Enid > > > > ________________________________ > From: Steve Szabo > > Philodendrons are also good plants for sucking up excess nitrates. I would suspect that any robust growing plants are candidates for this, but keep in mind it should be a plant that does not mind getting its feet wet. > > This was the first I had ever heard of using sugar cane for this purpose. I cannot say whether it would work or not as advertised. I suspect that anyone who lives in a major metropolitan area that has a high percentage or Hispanics in the population would not have a problem finding sugar cane in the grocery store. Several, but not all, in this area carry it. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray > > Kai, > > In trying to follow up here, while also replying to your post (#49708) of today -- 12/12 -- I don't see a continuation in this same thread which would fill in many different facts that are no longer available in this latest version. I do recall you've had this same problem in the past and I even believe you may have fairly recently posted on it, but as I don't have a Subject line for it, that makes it harder to search for to bring back up any further information. > > One major item of info I would like to know is what size tank are you talikng about, that requires you to spend this much on medication? Aside from the fact that you could lower your water level, as has been pointed out, to enable you to use less medication in the same tank, with your spending $20 per course for Maracyn II -- or $100 every November to treat your fish -- it might appear that you don't mind paying top=dollar for your meds instead of seeking out more reasonable prices. > > Now, it always pays to support your mom & pop LFS whenever you can, as he will always give you his knowledgeable advice whenever you run into a problem, but there are extenuating circumstances when it comes to breaking your budget. > > Unless you have some aversion to having supplies shipped to you, why wouldn't you buy your medication from one of the reputable on-line supply houses, like Drs Foster & Smith -- who charge only $12.69 for 24 packets of Maracyn II -- enough to treat 240 gallons of water. If you buy two such containers of medication, this will treat 480 gallons of water. I would think this would be plnety, unless you're talking about a 100 gallon tank. AND, I believe that Drs Foster & Smith do not charge for shipping medications. > > As for trying to locate sugar cane -- forget it! Just use what many aquarists have used sine the middle of the last century, to use up any excess nitrogenous wastes -- the household plant -- IVY !!! Yes -- IVY. you can drape this from tank to tank having its roots dangled down into the water column -- it does a great job. After a while, you can even start giving some of this Ivy away to your neighbors! Ray > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Another Update: > > > > They're "better" but not good. > > > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49719	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

I'd suggest getting something that doesn't get big ;) Some tomato plants can get pretty big, and need a lot of light. So if you don't keep your tanks near a window that may not work for you at all. I would go with Steve's suggestion of Ivy rather than tomato plants. Or you could get some hornwort, it's an aquatic plant that usually eats up nitrates pretty good too. You could also plant a bamboo plant in your HOB and have it sticking up out the top of it too, they don't mind having wet roots (actually prefer it), but make sure it's not too deep of water or the stem can start to rot. Amber On 12/13/2010 12:53 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... tomato plants in my HOB filters... > Ummmmmmmm.............. > ~Kai > > > Enid Rodriguez wrote: > > > > Tomato plants are also nitrogen fiends and you can probably grow > them from seeds. All you need is to squeeze a ripe tomato, wash the > seeds thoroughly ( all the gel removed) start the seeds in a warm > place ( like your kitchen) and then transfer them to the filter, as > sugested for the sugar cane. I have used them before in floating > islands in my pond, work fantastically. > > Enid > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Steve Szabo > > > > Philodendrons are also good plants for sucking up excess nitrates. I > would suspect that any robust growing plants are candidates for this, > but keep in mind it should be a plant that does not mind getting its > feet wet. > > > > This was the first I had ever heard of using sugar cane for this > purpose. I cannot say whether it would work or not as advertised. I > suspect that anyone who lives in a major metropolitan area that has a > high percentage or Hispanics in the population would not have a > problem finding sugar cane in the grocery store. Several, but not all, > in this area carry it. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ray > > > > Kai, > > > > In trying to follow up here, while also replying to your post > (#49708) of today -- 12/12 -- I don't see a continuation in this same > thread which would fill in many different facts that are no longer > available in this latest version. I do recall you've had this same > problem in the past and I even believe you may have fairly recently > posted on it, but as I don't have a Subject line for it, that makes it > harder to search for to bring back up any further information. > > > > One major item of info I would like to know is what size tank are > you talikng about, that requires you to spend this much on medication? > Aside from the fact that you could lower your water level, as has been > pointed out, to enable you to use less medication in the same tank, > with your spending $20 per course for Maracyn II -- or $100 every > November to treat your fish -- it might appear that you don't mind > paying top=dollar for your meds instead of seeking out more reasonable > prices. > > > > Now, it always pays to support your mom & pop LFS whenever you can, > as he will always give you his knowledgeable advice whenever you run > into a problem, but there are extenuating circumstances when it comes > to breaking your budget. > > > > Unless you have some aversion to having supplies shipped to you, why > wouldn't you buy your medication from one of the reputable on-line > supply houses, like Drs Foster & Smith -- who charge only $12.69 for > 24 packets of Maracyn II -- enough to treat 240 gallons of water. If > you buy two such containers of medication, this will treat 480 gallons > of water. I would think this would be plnety, unless you're talking > about a 100 gallon tank. AND, I believe that Drs Foster & Smith do not > charge for shipping medications. > > > > As for trying to locate sugar cane -- forget it! Just use what many > aquarists have used sine the middle of the last century, to use up any > excess nitrogenous wastes -- the household plant -- IVY !!! Yes -- > IVY. you can drape this from tank to tank having its roots dangled > down into the water column -- it does a great job. After a while, you > can even start giving some of this Ivy away to your neighbors! Ray > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Another Update: > > > > > > They're "better" but not good. > > > > > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st > and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the > 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC > on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed > to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as > the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > > > > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of > Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent > but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of > $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > > > > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate > fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > > > ~Kai > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49720	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/13/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

I have pothos in mine and it grows like it is in a jungle...the main stem on one of the plants is almost 2 inches thick... -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 21:18 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes I'd suggest getting something that doesn't get big ;) Some tomato plants can get pretty big, and need a lot of light. So if you don't keep your tanks near a window that may not work for you at all. I would go with Steve's suggestion of Ivy rather than tomato plants. Or you could get some hornwort, it's an aquatic plant that usually eats up nitrates pretty good too. You could also plant a bamboo plant in your HOB and have it sticking up out the top of it too, they don't mind having wet roots (actually prefer it), but make sure it's not too deep of water or the stem can start to rot. Amber On 12/13/2010 12:53 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... tomato plants in my HOB filters... > Ummmmmmmm.............. > ~Kai > > > Enid Rodriguez wrote: > > > > Tomato plants are also nitrogen fiends and you can probably grow > them from seeds. All you need is to squeeze a ripe tomato, wash the > seeds thoroughly ( all the gel removed) start the seeds in a warm > place ( like your kitchen) and then transfer them to the filter, as > sugested for the sugar cane. I have used them before in floating > islands in my pond, work fantastically. > > Enid > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Steve Szabo > > > > Philodendrons are also good plants for sucking up excess nitrates. I > would suspect that any robust growing plants are candidates for this, > but keep in mind it should be a plant that does not mind getting its > feet wet. > > > > This was the first I had ever heard of using sugar cane for this > purpose. I cannot say whether it would work or not as advertised. I > suspect that anyone who lives in a major metropolitan area that has a > high percentage or Hispanics in the population would not have a > problem finding sugar cane in the grocery store. Several, but not all, > in this area carry it. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ray > > > > Kai, > > > > In trying to follow up here, while also replying to your post > (#49708) of today -- 12/12 -- I don't see a continuation in this same > thread which would fill in many different facts that are no longer > available in this latest version. I do recall you've had this same > problem in the past and I even believe you may have fairly recently > posted on it, but as I don't have a Subject line for it, that makes it > harder to search for to bring back up any further information. > > > > One major item of info I would like to know is what size tank are > you talikng about, that requires you to spend this much on medication? > Aside from the fact that you could lower your water level, as has been > pointed out, to enable you to use less medication in the same tank, > with your spending $20 per course for Maracyn II -- or $100 every > November to treat your fish -- it might appear that you don't mind > paying top=dollar for your meds instead of seeking out more reasonable > prices. > > > > Now, it always pays to support your mom & pop LFS whenever you can, > as he will always give you his knowledgeable advice whenever you run > into a problem, but there are extenuating circumstances when it comes > to breaking your budget. > > > > Unless you have some aversion to having supplies shipped to you, why > wouldn't you buy your medication from one of the reputable on-line > supply houses, like Drs Foster & Smith -- who charge only $12.69 for > 24 packets of Maracyn II -- enough to treat 240 gallons of water. If > you buy two such containers of medication, this will treat 480 gallons > of water. I would think this would be plnety, unless you're talking > about a 100 gallon tank. AND, I believe that Drs Foster & Smith do not > charge for shipping medications. > > > > As for trying to locate sugar cane -- forget it! Just use what many > aquarists have used sine the middle of the last century, to use up any > excess nitrogenous wastes -- the household plant -- IVY !!! Yes -- > IVY. you can drape this from tank to tank having its roots dangled > down into the water column -- it does a great job. After a while, you > can even start giving some of this Ivy away to your neighbors! Ray > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Another Update: > > > > > > They're "better" but not good. > > > > > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st > and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the > 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC > on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed > to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as > the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > > > > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of > Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent > but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of > $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > > > > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate > fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > > > ~Kai > > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49721	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

LOL! Fishtanks and sunlight. Perfect together. :oP --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I'd suggest getting something that doesn't get big ;) Some tomato plants > can get pretty big, and need a lot of light. So if you don't keep your > tanks near a window that may not work for you at all. I would go with > Steve's suggestion of Ivy rather than tomato plants. Or you could get > some hornwort, it's an aquatic plant that usually eats up nitrates > pretty good too. You could also plant a bamboo plant in your HOB and > have it sticking up out the top of it too, they don't mind having wet > roots (actually prefer it), but make sure it's not too deep of water or > the stem can start to rot. > > Amber > > On 12/13/2010 12:53 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... tomato plants in my HOB filters... > > Ummmmmmmm.............. > > ~Kai > > > > > Enid Rodriguez wrote: > > > > > > Tomato plants are also nitrogen fiends and you can probably grow > > them from seeds. All you need is to squeeze a ripe tomato, wash the > > seeds thoroughly ( all the gel removed) start the seeds in a warm > > place ( like your kitchen) and then transfer them to the filter, as > > sugested for the sugar cane. I have used them before in floating > > islands in my pond, work fantastically. > > > Enid > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Steve Szabo > > > > > > Philodendrons are also good plants for sucking up excess nitrates. I > > would suspect that any robust growing plants are candidates for this, > > but keep in mind it should be a plant that does not mind getting its > > feet wet. > > > > > > This was the first I had ever heard of using sugar cane for this > > purpose. I cannot say whether it would work or not as advertised. I > > suspect that anyone who lives in a major metropolitan area that has a > > high percentage or Hispanics in the population would not have a > > problem finding sugar cane in the grocery store. Several, but not all, > > in this area carry it. > > > > > > \\Steve// > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ray > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > In trying to follow up here, while also replying to your post > > (#49708) of today -- 12/12 -- I don't see a continuation in this same > > thread which would fill in many different facts that are no longer > > available in this latest version. I do recall you've had this same > > problem in the past and I even believe you may have fairly recently > > posted on it, but as I don't have a Subject line for it, that makes it > > harder to search for to bring back up any further information. > > > > > > One major item of info I would like to know is what size tank are > > you talikng about, that requires you to spend this much on medication? > > Aside from the fact that you could lower your water level, as has been > > pointed out, to enable you to use less medication in the same tank, > > with your spending $20 per course for Maracyn II -- or $100 every > > November to treat your fish -- it might appear that you don't mind > > paying top=dollar for your meds instead of seeking out more reasonable > > prices. > > > > > > Now, it always pays to support your mom & pop LFS whenever you can, > > as he will always give you his knowledgeable advice whenever you run > > into a problem, but there are extenuating circumstances when it comes > > to breaking your budget. > > > > > > Unless you have some aversion to having supplies shipped to you, why > > wouldn't you buy your medication from one of the reputable on-line > > supply houses, like Drs Foster & Smith -- who charge only $12.69 for > > 24 packets of Maracyn II -- enough to treat 240 gallons of water. If > > you buy two such containers of medication, this will treat 480 gallons > > of water. I would think this would be plnety, unless you're talking > > about a 100 gallon tank. AND, I believe that Drs Foster & Smith do not > > charge for shipping medications. > > > > > > As for trying to locate sugar cane -- forget it! Just use what many > > aquarists have used sine the middle of the last century, to use up any > > excess nitrogenous wastes -- the household plant -- IVY !!! Yes -- > > IVY. you can drape this from tank to tank having its roots dangled > > down into the water column -- it does a great job. After a while, you > > can even start giving some of this Ivy away to your neighbors! Ray > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Another Update: > > > > > > > > They're "better" but not good. > > > > > > > > The tinfoils got worse so I did another aggressive PWC on the 1st > > and started a new course of antibiotics, which they finished on the > > 8th. By then, the water was extra milky again. Another aggressive PWC > > on the 9th. The water is residually milky and the antibiotics seemed > > to have helped. They're better but not well. Their appetite worsens as > > the water quality does so they were a "little" hungry after the PWC. > > > > > > > > I'm not looking forward to paying $20+ per additional course of > > Maracyn-2. I asked my Dr for a prescription for the human equivalent > > but he wouldn't do it. Too bad. It would be a $15 copay instead of > > $40+ online or $50 at my LFS for a double-course. > > > > > > > > It kills me. $100 (two double-courses) every November to medicate > > fish that I originally only paid about $35 for. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49722	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

Here's what the tank looks like today -- right AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view The water is still very milky. But the tinfoils are getting better. Not quite as splotchy as they were last week before their 2nd course of antibiotics. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49723	From: haecklers	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

I think they may be overcrowded. Tinfoil barbs are messy fish. I'm not doubting your water problems, but with that much fish waste being added to the water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the water quality good. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > The water is still very milky. But the tinfoils are getting better. Not quite as splotchy as they were last week before their 2nd course of antibiotics. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49724	From: harry perry	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes aren't going to help here. These fish will continuously come down with different ailments. ICH is next. You need to cut down the population quickly. More tanks or give the fish away or sell back to your LFS. If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will do it for you, the hard way. Harry --- On Tue, 12/14/10, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: From: haecklers <haecklers@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 4:55 PM   I think they may be overcrowded. Tinfoil barbs are messy fish. I'm not doubting your water problems, but with that much fish waste being added to the water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the water quality good. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > The water is still very milky. But the tinfoils are getting better. Not quite as splotchy as they were last week before their 2nd course of antibiotics. > ~Kai > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49725	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded. They have been this big and this crowded for years. They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the year. The water problems occur every November. We think it has to do with our well water. ~Kai > harry perry wrote: > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes aren't going to help here. > > These fish will continuously come down with different ailments. ICH is next. > > You need to cut down the population quickly. More tanks or give the fish away or sell back to your LFS. > > If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will do it for you, the hard way. > > Harry > > haecklers wrote: > > I think they may be overcrowded. Tinfoil barbs are messy fish. I'm not doubting your water problems, but with that much fish waste being added to the water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the water quality good. > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > The water is still very milky. But the tinfoils are getting better. Not quite as splotchy as they were last week before their 2nd course of antibiotics. > > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49726	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Harry is right. You are going to lose those fish if you don't do something fast. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:21:38 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes aren't going to help here. These fish will continuously come down with different ailments. ICH is next. You need to cut down the population quickly. More tanks or give the fish away or sell back to your LFS. If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will do it for you, the hard way. Harry --- On Tue, 12/14/10, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: From: haecklers <haecklers@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 4:55 PM  I think they may be overcrowded. Tinfoil barbs are messy fish. I'm not doubting your water problems, but with that much fish waste being added to the water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the water quality good. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view >w > > The water is still very milky. But the tinfoils are getting better. Not quite >as splotchy as they were last week before their 2nd course of antibiotics. > ~Kai > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49727	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Kai, Maybe you could use all of the money you spend on antibiotics every November to buy them a bigger tank ;) Check Craigslist.org for deals ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:55:32 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded. They have been this big and this crowded for years. They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the year. The water problems occur every November. We think it has to do with our well water. ~Kai > harry perry wrote: > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes aren't going to help here. > > These fish will continuously come down with different ailments. ICH is next. > > You need to cut down the population quickly. More tanks or give the fish away >or sell back to your LFS. > > If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will do it for you, the hard >way. > > Harry > > haecklers wrote: > > I think they may be overcrowded. Tinfoil barbs are messy fish. I'm not >doubting your water problems, but with that much fish waste being added to the >water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the water quality good. > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > The water is still very milky. But the tinfoils are getting better. Not >quite as splotchy as they were last week before their 2nd course of antibiotics. > > ~Kai > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49728	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Kai,   Harry is very, very right on this!  With the water quality as it is, I can't count the number you have but no matter.  If this is a 55, you can have one, if it's a 75 you can two-----but nothing else.   Axiom?  Big fish=Big mess.  PWC?  A lot, often, and vacuuming a must. But they are great swimmer's and fun to watch but they need room, a lot of it!   Bill --- On Tue, 12/14/10, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 5:21 PM This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes aren't going to help here. These fish will continuously come down with different ailments. ICH is next. You need to cut down the population quickly. More tanks or give the fish away or sell back to your LFS. If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will do it for you, the hard way. Harry --- On Tue, 12/14/10, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: From: haecklers <haecklers@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 4:55 PM                           I think they may be overcrowded.  Tinfoil barbs are messy fish.  I'm not doubting your water problems, but with that much fish waste being added to the water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the water quality good. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > The water is still very milky.  But the tinfoils are getting better.  Not quite as splotchy as they were last week before their 2nd course of antibiotics. > ~Kai >                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49729	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Kai? A bigger tank? 100 to 125 at least! Better? A 240! They'll love ya forever! Bill --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 5:59 PM > Kai, > > Maybe you could use all of the money you spend on > antibiotics every November to > buy them a bigger tank ;)  Check Craigslist.org for > deals > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:55:32 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big > Problem > > Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded.  They have been > this big and this crowded > for years. > > They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the year. > > The water problems occur every November.  We think it > has to do with our well > water. > ~Kai > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes > aren't going to help here. > > > > These fish will continuously come down with different > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > You need to cut down the population quickly. More > tanks or give the fish away > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will > do it for you, the hard > >way. > > > > Harry > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > >   > > I think they may be overcrowded.  Tinfoil barbs > are messy fish.  I'm not > >doubting your water problems, but with that much fish > waste being added to the > >water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  Kai wrote: > > > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > The water is still very milky.  But the > tinfoils are getting better.  Not > >quite as splotchy as they were last week before their > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home > page.  > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > >       > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49730	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes

I have to agree with everyone that the tank is drastically over crowded, but I'm not about to lecture you, since everyone has already done it ;). Other than that the white cloudiness definitely looks like a bacterial bloom (such as a high ammonia/etc and the nitrifying bacteria is suspended in the water column eating the excess waste, which is why it looks cloudy). I've had my water do this to me once before, but it was caused from accidentally cleaning my filter too well and killing off my good bacteria in the filter, so the left over bacteria in my gravel/decorations became suspended in the water column trying to use up the excess nutrients. I also have one overcrowded tank (55 gallon) because of all my mystery snails and guppy population, so I do PWC's every few days and try to clean the filter twice a week to make up for the overcrowding. I do occasionally move my guppies down to the 125 gallon tank, but until I get ALL of them down there they just repopulate. My mystery snails seem to die off when I keep them in any other tank but the 55 gallon, so I gave up trying to relocate them to the bigger tank downstairs. They "hibernate" when the nitrates get too high, so I can easily tell how high my nitrates are by how active the mystery snails are, and I quickly do a PWC if they're not very active. Amber On 12/14/2010 11:16 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > The water is still very milky. But the tinfoils are getting better. > Not quite as splotchy as they were last week before their 2nd course > of antibiotics. > ~Kai > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49731	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

And you can all pitch in to buy me the bigger house to put it in. :oP ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > Kai? > > A bigger tank? 100 to 125 at least! Better? A 240! > They'll love ya forever! > > Bill > > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 5:59 PM > > Kai, > > > > Maybe you could use all of the money you spend on > > antibiotics every November to > > buy them a bigger tank ;)  Check Craigslist.org for > > deals > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:55:32 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big > > Problem > > > > Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded.  They have been > > this big and this crowded > > for years. > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the year. > > > > The water problems occur every November.  We think it > > has to do with our well > > water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > These fish will continuously come down with different > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > You need to cut down the population quickly. More > > tanks or give the fish away > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will > > do it for you, the hard > > >way. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > >   > > > I think they may be overcrowded.  Tinfoil barbs > > are messy fish.  I'm not > > >doubting your water problems, but with that much fish > > waste being added to the > > >water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very milky.  But the > > tinfoils are getting better.  Not > > >quite as splotchy as they were last week before their > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home > > page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49732	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

I sure know how that feels! My 3 bedroom condo barely seems big enough for me and my hubby and all the fish tanks, and he already said I can't have any more fish tanks. Amber On 12/14/2010 3:50 PM, kuradi8 wrote: > > And you can all pitch in to buy me the bigger house to put it in. > :oP > ~Kai > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > Kai? > > > > A bigger tank? 100 to 125 at least! Better? A 240! > > They'll love ya forever! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > > > > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 5:59 PM > > > Kai, > > > > > > Maybe you could use all of the money you spend on > > > antibiotics every November to > > > buy them a bigger tank ;) Check Craigslist.org for > > > deals > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:55:32 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big > > > Problem > > > > > > Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded. They have been > > > this big and this crowded > > > for years. > > > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the year. > > > > > > The water problems occur every November. We think it > > > has to do with our well > > > water. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes > > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > > > These fish will continuously come down with different > > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > > > You need to cut down the population quickly. More > > > tanks or give the fish away > > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > > > If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will > > > do it for you, the hard > > > >way. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I think they may be overcrowded. Tinfoil barbs > > > are messy fish. I'm not > > > >doubting your water problems, but with that much fish > > > waste being added to the > > > >water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the > > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right > > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very milky. But the > > > tinfoils are getting better. Not > > > >quite as splotchy as they were last week before their > > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49733	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/14/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Now Kai, If I hit the Lottery, your first on the list! <G> Bill --- On Tue, 12/14/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 7:50 PM > And you can all pitch in to buy me > the bigger house to put it in. > :oP > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > > Kai? > > > > A bigger tank?  100 to 125 at least!  > Better?  A 240! > > They'll love ya forever! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo > <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > > > > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November > Woes/Big Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 5:59 PM > > > Kai, > > > > > > Maybe you could use all of the money you spend > on > > > antibiotics every November to > > > buy them a bigger tank ;)  Check Craigslist.org > for > > > deals > > > > > >  ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:55:32 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November > Woes/Big > > > Problem > > > > > > Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded.  They have > been > > > this big and this crowded > > > for years. > > > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the > year. > > > > > > The water problems occur every November.  We > think it > > > has to do with our well > > > water. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water > changes > > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > > > These fish will continuously come down with > different > > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > > > You need to cut down the population quickly. > More > > > tanks or give the fish away > > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > > > If you don't cut back the population soon, > nature will > > > do it for you, the hard > > > >way. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > > > >   > > > > I think they may be overcrowded.  Tinfoil > barbs > > > are messy fish.  I'm not > > > >doubting your water problems, but with that > much fish > > > waste being added to the > > > >water it seems like it would be really hard > to keep the > > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today > -- right > > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very milky.  But > the > > > tinfoils are getting better.  Not > > > >quite as splotchy as they were last week > before their > > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience > & ask > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My > > > Membership" on the home > > > page.  > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > > will still be able to read messages on the group > and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience > & ask > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it > when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the > TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE > -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this > matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, > instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery > option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be > able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49734	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Thanks, Bill! I've got that in writing with lots of witnesses! :oP ~Kai > bill 1433 wrote: > > Now Kai, > > If I hit the Lottery, your first on the list! <G> > > Bill > > > Kai wrote: > > > > And you can all pitch in to buy me > > the bigger house to put it in. > > :oP > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Kai? > > > > > > A bigger tank?  100 to 125 at least!  > > Better?  A 240! > > > They'll love ya forever! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > From: Laurie Alaimo > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > Maybe you could use all of the money you spend > > on > > > > antibiotics every November to > > > > buy them a bigger tank ;)  Check Craigslist.org > > for > > > > deals > > > > > > > >  ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded.  They have > > been > > > > this big and this crowded > > > > for years. > > > > > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the > > year. > > > > > > > > The water problems occur every November.  We > > think it > > > > has to do with our well > > > > water. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water > > changes > > > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > > > > > These fish will continuously come down with > > different > > > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > > > > > You need to cut down the population quickly. > > More > > > > tanks or give the fish away > > > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > > > > > If you don't cut back the population soon, > > nature will > > > > do it for you, the hard > > > > >way. > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > I think they may be overcrowded.  Tinfoil > > barbs > > > > are messy fish.  I'm not > > > > >doubting your water problems, but with that > > much fish > > > > waste being added to the > > > > >water it seems like it would be really hard > > to keep the > > > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today > > -- right > > > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > > > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very milky.  But > > the > > > > tinfoils are getting better.  Not > > > > >quite as splotchy as they were last week > > before their > > > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49735	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

At the risk of being slightly rude I have to comment here... When people buy pets it then becomes their responsibility to properly care for those pets. If the care needs exceed what the person can accommodate then it becomes their responsibility to rehome those animals somewhere they can be properly provided for. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, its what we do about those mistakes that matters most. To suggest that others pitch in to pay for a new house to properly accommodate fish you can no longer properly provide for, even in a joking manner, is not funny or very nice. There were many honest comments made on this post based on something that can't be denied.. those fish are way too big for the tank they are in. In all honesty, what is seen in that photo is animal abuse. If that were a dog or cat it would become a legal issue in most states. You stated that they are happy/healthy 11 months out of the year, but I don't see how that could be possible. There is a lot of internal damage that is done by keeping them in conditions such as this, and no I am not referring to the bacterial bloom. If the fish were healthy they would have continued to grow until they physically couldn't fit into that tank. The fact that they haven't is a clear indication they are not healthy. I apologize to all who feel my post is over the line, but I am being honest, just as others have done here. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > And you can all pitch in to buy me the bigger house to put it in. > :oP > ~Kai > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > Kai? > > > > A bigger tank? 100 to 125 at least! Better? A 240! > > They'll love ya forever! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 5:59 PM > > > Kai, > > > > > > Maybe you could use all of the money you spend on > > > antibiotics every November to > > > buy them a bigger tank ;)  Check Craigslist.org for > > > deals > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:55:32 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big > > > Problem > > > > > > Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded.  They have been > > > this big and this crowded > > > for years. > > > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the year. > > > > > > The water problems occur every November.  We think it > > > has to do with our well > > > water. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes > > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > > > These fish will continuously come down with different > > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > > > You need to cut down the population quickly. More > > > tanks or give the fish away > > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > > > If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will > > > do it for you, the hard > > > >way. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > > > >   > > > > I think they may be overcrowded.  Tinfoil barbs > > > are messy fish.  I'm not > > > >doubting your water problems, but with that much fish > > > waste being added to the > > > >water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the > > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right > > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very milky.  But the > > > tinfoils are getting better.  Not > > > >quite as splotchy as they were last week before their > > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home > > > page.  > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49736	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Your comments are well taken, Dawn. My fish are healthy and lively and seemingly happy 11 months out of the year. My point (which everyone, including myself, has gotten away from) is that something presumably external happens to the water, and therefore them, every November. If it were JUST overcrowding, they'd be sick all the time -- not just every year from Thanksgiving to Christmas. ~Kai > Dawn wrote: > > At the risk of being slightly rude I have to comment here... > When people buy pets it then becomes their responsibility to properly care for those pets. If the care needs exceed what the person can accommodate then it becomes their responsibility to rehome those animals somewhere they can be properly provided for. > Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, its what we do about those mistakes that matters most. To suggest that others pitch in to pay for a new house to properly accommodate fish you can no longer properly provide for, even in a joking manner, is not funny or very nice. There were many honest comments made on this post based on something that can't be denied.. those fish are way too big for the tank they are in. In all honesty, what is seen in that photo is animal abuse. If that were a dog or cat it would become a legal issue in most states. > You stated that they are happy/healthy 11 months out of the year, but I don't see how that could be possible. There is a lot of internal damage that is done by keeping them in conditions such as this, and no I am not referring to the bacterial bloom. If the fish were healthy they would have continued to grow until they physically couldn't fit into that tank. The fact that they haven't is a clear indication they are not healthy. > > I apologize to all who feel my post is over the line, but I am being honest, just as others have done here. > > Dawn > > > Kai wrote: > > > > And you can all pitch in to buy me the bigger house to put it in. > > :oP > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Kai? > > > > > > A bigger tank? 100 to 125 at least! Better? A 240! > > > They'll love ya forever! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 5:59 PM > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > Maybe you could use all of the money you spend on > > > > antibiotics every November to > > > > buy them a bigger tank ;)  Check Craigslist.org for > > > > deals > > > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:55:32 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big > > > > Problem > > > > > > > > Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded.  They have been > > > > this big and this crowded > > > > for years. > > > > > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the year. > > > > > > > > The water problems occur every November.  We think it > > > > has to do with our well > > > > water. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes > > > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > > > > > These fish will continuously come down with different > > > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > > > > > You need to cut down the population quickly. More > > > > tanks or give the fish away > > > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > > > > > If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will > > > > do it for you, the hard > > > > >way. > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > I think they may be overcrowded.  Tinfoil barbs > > > > are messy fish.  I'm not > > > > >doubting your water problems, but with that much fish > > > > waste being added to the > > > > >water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the > > > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right > > > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > > > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very milky.  But the > > > > tinfoils are getting better.  Not > > > > >quite as splotchy as they were last week before their > > > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the > > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can > > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home > > > > page.  > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49737	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Could it be a change in light? Are they near a window or something? I've never had a tank get milky like that personally but it's possible that if the light source changed enough that you could end up with a bacterial bloom... That could/would make the water milky... Perhaps (not bashing your fish-keeping, just thinking out loud), you lessen the frequency of your water changes near the beginning of November? You mention that it starts near Thanksgiving... perhaps a busy schedule means less time for the fish? I know it does at my house!! that would give the bacteria more time to populate and possibly take over the tank creating the milky water and increases the chance for disease and general poor health of the fish... another possibility... if you are gone over Thanksgiving and have someone else come in to feed the fish are they getting too much food and not enough water changes? Finally, do you have a water test-kit to test a bunch of parameters? Not a dip-stick but a real test kit? I used that on my fiance's mother's tank because she started having algal blooms every fall and couldn't figure out why (like PEA-GREEN water!!) and we found out that the nitrates and nitrites were high and due to the season more light came in through the window they were near and caused the algae to thrive... Might be something that simple... Just a few thoughts... Hope something helps. Lauren [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49738	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Light might be a culprit, Lauren. In November, the leaves are off the trees and the big south-facing window gets hit with direct light. Direct sunlight doesn't hit the tank but the living room (tank is in the dining room) gets quite bright. But with medications, chemicals and lots of PWC, the water clears up around Christmas. We joke that it's our annual "Christmas Miracle." By then and throughout January, February and March, there's snow on the ground and light reflects from all directions, including the north-facing sliding glass door in the dining room. Those are brighter months than Thanksgiving through Christmas. Could it be the *beginning* of the bright season that spurs the bloom? As suggested here, I think the biggest reason has something to do with our well water. I keep the same PWC schedule year-round -- except when they're sick, and then it's every few days, as needed. We are very close to a lake/pond, and the theory is that the fall bio-decay (lake-weed, swamp growth, fallen leaves, etc) somehow seeps into our well water and bacteria blooms in time for their November water changes. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to affect us, but the poor fish..... ~Kai > Lauren Moore wrote: > > Could it be a change in light? Are they near a window or something? I've never had a tank get milky like that personally but it's possible that if the light source changed enough that you could end up with a bacterial bloom... That could/would make the water milky... > > Perhaps (not bashing your fish-keeping, just thinking out loud), you lessen the frequency of your water changes near the beginning of November? You mention that it starts near Thanksgiving... perhaps a busy schedule means less time for the fish? I know it does at my house!! that would give the bacteria more time to populate and possibly take over the tank creating the milky water and increases the chance for disease and general poor health of the fish... > > another possibility... if you are gone over Thanksgiving and have someone else come in to feed the fish are they getting too much food and not enough water changes? > > Finally, do you have a water test-kit to test a bunch of parameters? Not a dip-stick but a real test kit? I used that on my fiance's mother's tank because she started having algal blooms every fall and couldn't figure out why (like PEA-GREEN water!!) and we found out that the nitrates and nitrites were high and due to the season more light came in through the window they were near and caused the algae to thrive... Might be something that simple... > > Just a few thoughts... Hope something helps. > > Lauren >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49739	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Hi Kai,   Everyone seems to be telling you to check your water and their right, but I would also offer this.   Check both!  Check not only the tank but also the water BEFORE you put it in there or the source water.  I have well water here also and it does change.  From living in this area I can tell you that I’ve learned, the deeper the well, the less change.  Wells in the 75 to 150 range are subject to many ground water influences but at 200 or 300 feet deep, not near as much.   Most folks on group use the API Master Test kit that sells for around $25.00 dollars and worth every penny.  You might also get a GH/KH kit for hardness values.  Here at my home I hardly have any hardness to the water but I have a pH of 5.5 to 5.8 constant.  It makes buying new fish from tanks kept at neutral conditions a real challenge!   Bill --- On Wed, 12/15/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 2:45 PM Your comments are well taken, Dawn. My fish are healthy and lively and seemingly happy 11 months out of the year. My point (which everyone, including myself, has gotten away from) is that something presumably external happens to the water, and therefore them, every November. If it were JUST overcrowding, they'd be sick all the time -- not just every year from Thanksgiving to Christmas. ~Kai > Dawn wrote: > > At the risk of being slightly rude I have to comment here... > When people buy pets it then becomes their responsibility to properly care for those pets.  If the care needs exceed what the person can accommodate then it becomes their responsibility to rehome those animals somewhere they can be properly provided for.  > Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, its what we do about those mistakes that matters most.  To suggest that others pitch in to pay for a new house to properly accommodate fish you can no longer properly provide for, even in a joking manner, is not funny or very nice.  There were many honest comments made on this post based on something that can't be denied.. those fish are way too big for the tank they are in.  In all honesty, what is seen in that photo is animal abuse.  If that were a dog or cat it would become a legal issue in most states. > You stated that they are happy/healthy 11 months out of the year, but I don't see how that could be possible.  There is a lot of internal damage that is done by keeping them in conditions such as this, and no I am not referring to the bacterial bloom.  If the fish were healthy they would have continued to grow until they physically couldn't fit into that tank.  The fact that they haven't is a clear indication they are not healthy. > > I apologize to all who feel my post is over the line, but I am being honest, just as others have done here. > > Dawn > > > Kai wrote: > > > > And you can all pitch in to buy me the bigger house to put it in. > > :oP > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > Kai? > > > > > > A bigger tank?  100 to 125 at least!  Better?  A 240! > > > They'll love ya forever! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > > > > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 5:59 PM > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > Maybe you could use all of the money you spend on > > > > antibiotics every November to > > > > buy them a bigger tank ;)  Check Craigslist.org for > > > > deals > > > > > > > >  ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:55:32 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big > > > > Problem > > > > > > > > Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded.  They have been > > > > this big and this crowded > > > > for years. > > > > > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the year. > > > > > > > > The water problems occur every November.  We think it > > > > has to do with our well > > > > water. > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes > > > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > > > > > These fish will continuously come down with different > > > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > > > > > You need to cut down the population quickly. More > > > > tanks or give the fish away > > > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > > > > > If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will > > > > do it for you, the hard > > > > >way. > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > I think they may be overcrowded.  Tinfoil barbs > > > > are messy fish.  I'm not > > > > >doubting your water problems, but with that much fish > > > > waste being added to the > > > > >water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the > > > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right > > > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > > > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very milky.  But the > > > > tinfoils are getting better.  Not > > > > >quite as splotchy as they were last week before their > > > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the > > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can > > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home > > > > page.  > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49740	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Thats a good point Bill... I didn't mention that, but I also check my source water every once in a while and it does change periodically. Lauren On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:27 PM, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Hi Kai, > > Everyone seems to be telling you to check your water > and their right, but I would also offer this. > > Check both! Check not only the tank but also the water > BEFORE you put it in there or the source water. I have well water > here also and it does change. From living in this area I can tell you that > I’ve learned, the deeper the well, the less change. Wells in the > 75 to 150 range are subject to many ground water influences but at 200 or > 300 feet deep, not near as much. > > Most folks on group use the API Master Test kit that sells for around > $25.00 dollars and worth every penny. You might also get a GH/KH kit > for hardness values. Here at my home I hardly have any hardness to > the water but I have a pH of 5.5 to 5.8 constant. It makes buying new fish > from tanks kept at neutral conditions a real challenge! > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 12/15/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > wrote: > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 2:45 PM > > Your comments are well taken, Dawn. > > My fish are healthy and lively and seemingly happy 11 months out of the > year. > > My point (which everyone, including myself, has gotten away from) is that > something presumably external happens to the water, and therefore them, > every November. > > If it were JUST overcrowding, they'd be sick all the time -- not just every > year from Thanksgiving to Christmas. > ~Kai > > > Dawn wrote: > > > > At the risk of being slightly rude I have to comment here... > > When people buy pets it then becomes their responsibility to properly > care for those pets. If the care needs exceed what the person can > accommodate then it becomes their responsibility to rehome those animals > somewhere they can be properly provided for. > > Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, its what we do about those mistakes > that matters most. To suggest that others pitch in to pay for a new house > to properly accommodate fish you can no longer properly provide for, even in > a joking manner, is not funny or very nice. There were many honest comments > made on this post based on something that can't be denied.. those fish are > way too big for the tank they are in. In all honesty, what is seen in that > photo is animal abuse. If that were a dog or cat it would become a legal > issue in most states. > > You stated that they are happy/healthy 11 months out of the year, but I > don't see how that could be possible. There is a lot of internal damage > that is done by keeping them in conditions such as this, and no I am not > referring to the bacterial bloom. If the fish were healthy they would have > continued to grow until they physically couldn't fit into that tank. The > fact that they haven't is a clear indication they are not healthy. > > > > I apologize to all who feel my post is over the line, but I am being > honest, just as others have done here. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > And you can all pitch in to buy me the bigger house to put it in. > > > :oP > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai? > > > > > > > > A bigger tank? 100 to 125 at least! Better? A 240! > > > > They'll love ya forever! > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 5:59 PM > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you could use all of the money you spend on > > > > > antibiotics every November to > > > > > buy them a bigger tank ;) Check Craigslist.org for > > > > > deals > > > > > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 2:55:32 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big > > > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I know the tank is overcrowded. They have been > > > > > this big and this crowded > > > > > for years. > > > > > > > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 months out of the year. > > > > > > > > > > The water problems occur every November. We think it > > > > > has to do with our well > > > > > water. > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > This tank is seriously overcrowded. Water changes > > > > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > > > > > > > These fish will continuously come down with different > > > > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to cut down the population quickly. More > > > > > tanks or give the fish away > > > > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't cut back the population soon, nature will > > > > > do it for you, the hard > > > > > >way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they may be overcrowded. Tinfoil barbs > > > > > are messy fish. I'm not > > > > > >doubting your water problems, but with that much fish > > > > > waste being added to the > > > > > >water it seems like it would be really hard to keep the > > > > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank looks like today -- right > > > > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very milky. But the > > > > > tinfoils are getting better. Not > > > > > >quite as splotchy as they were last week before their > > > > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > NOT important to the > > > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can > > > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > > Membership" on the home > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > > > > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single > email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on > the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49741	From: bill 1433	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Again Lauren, how deep is the well? Don't forget to check hardness values. Bill --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > From: Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 7:33 PM > Thats a good point Bill... I didn't > mention that, but I also check my source > water every once in a while and it does change > periodically. > > Lauren > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:27 PM, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Kai, > > > > Everyone seems to be telling you to check your water > > and their right, but I would also offer this. > > > > Check both!  Check not only the tank but also the > water > > BEFORE you put it in there or the source water.  > I have well water > > here also and it does change.  From living in > this area I can tell you that > > I’ve learned, the deeper the well, the less > change.  Wells in the > > 75 to 150 range are subject to many ground water > influences but at 200 or > > 300 feet deep, not near as much. > > > > Most folks on group use the API Master Test kit that > sells for around > > $25.00 dollars and worth every penny.  You might > also get a GH/KH kit > > for hardness values.  Here at my home I hardly > have any hardness to > > the water but I have a pH of 5.5 to 5.8 > constant.  It makes buying new fish > > from tanks kept at neutral conditions a real > challenge! > > > > Bill > > > > --- On Wed, 12/15/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@... > <kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > wrote: > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... > <kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big > Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 2:45 PM > > > > Your comments are well taken, Dawn. > > > > My fish are healthy and lively and seemingly happy 11 > months out of the > > year. > > > > My point (which everyone, including myself, has gotten > away from) is that > > something presumably external happens to the water, > and therefore them, > > every November. > > > > If it were JUST overcrowding, they'd be sick all the > time -- not just every > > year from Thanksgiving to Christmas. > > ~Kai > > > > > Dawn wrote: > > > > > > At the risk of being slightly rude I have to > comment here... > > > When people buy pets it then becomes their > responsibility to properly > > care for those pets.  If the care needs exceed > what the person can > > accommodate then it becomes their responsibility to > rehome those animals > > somewhere they can be properly provided for. > > > Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, its what we do > about those mistakes > > that matters most.  To suggest that others pitch > in to pay for a new house > > to properly accommodate fish you can no longer > properly provide for, even in > > a joking manner, is not funny or very nice.  > There were many honest comments > > made on this post based on something that can't be > denied.. those fish are > > way too big for the tank they are in.  In all > honesty, what is seen in that > > photo is animal abuse.  If that were a dog or cat > it would become a legal > > issue in most states. > > > You stated that they are happy/healthy 11 months > out of the year, but I > > don't see how that could be possible.  There is a > lot of internal damage > > that is done by keeping them in conditions such as > this, and no I am not > > referring to the bacterial bloom.  If the fish > were healthy they would have > > continued to grow until they physically couldn't fit > into that tank.  The > > fact that they haven't is a clear indication they are > not healthy. > > > > > > I apologize to all who feel my post is over the > line, but I am being > > honest, just as others have done here. > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > And you can all pitch in to buy me the > bigger house to put it in. > > > > :oP > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Kai? > > > > > > > > > > A bigger tank?  100 to 125 at > least!  Better?  A 240! > > > > > They'll love ya forever! > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo > <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: Laurie Alaimo > <environmom95112@> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > Annual November Woes/Big Problem > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, > 5:59 PM > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you could use all of the > money you spend on > > > > > > antibiotics every November to > > > > > > buy them a bigger tank ;)  > Check Craigslist.org for > > > > > > deals > > > > > > > > > > > >  ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@> > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 > 2:55:32 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual > November Woes/Big > > > > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I know the tank is > overcrowded.  They have been > > > > > > this big and this crowded > > > > > > for years. > > > > > > > > > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 > months out of the year. > > > > > > > > > > > > The water problems occur every > November.  We think it > > > > > > has to do with our well > > > > > > water. > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This tank is seriously > overcrowded. Water changes > > > > > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These fish will continuously > come down with different > > > > > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to cut down the > population quickly. More > > > > > > tanks or give the fish away > > > > > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't cut back the > population soon, nature will > > > > > > do it for you, the hard > > > > > > >way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they may be > overcrowded.  Tinfoil barbs > > > > > > are messy fish.  I'm not > > > > > > >doubting your water problems, > but with that much fish > > > > > > waste being added to the > > > > > > >water it seems like it would > be really hard to keep the > > > > > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank > looks like today -- right > > > > > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very > milky.  But the > > > > > > tinfoils are getting better.  > Not > > > > > > >quite as splotchy as they were > last week before their > > > > > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to > share experience & ask > > > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > NOT important to the > > > > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of the original message > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups emails, instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can > > > > > > change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My > > > > > > Membership" on the home > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > you > > > > > > will still be able to read > messages on the group and post > > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to > share experience & ask > > > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > EVERYTHING below it when > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & > if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > groups emails, instead of > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > delivery option by > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" > on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to > > > > > > read messages on the group and > post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & > ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to > receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time > in a single > > email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for > the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > messages on > > the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to > receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49742	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Not sure how deep my well is... I haven't had a problem with my tanks in over a year... haven't really added new fish though either! On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:56 PM, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > > > Again Lauren, how deep is the well? Don't forget to check > hardness values. > > Bill > > --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...<crested.tern.09%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > From: Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...<crested.tern.09%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 7:33 PM > > > Thats a good point Bill... I didn't > > mention that, but I also check my source > > water every once in a while and it does change > > periodically. > > > > Lauren > > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:27 PM, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...<warrenprint%40yahoo.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kai, > > > > > > Everyone seems to be telling you to check your water > > > and their right, but I would also offer this. > > > > > > Check both! Check not only the tank but also the > > water > > > BEFORE you put it in there or the source water. > > I have well water > > > here also and it does change. From living in > > this area I can tell you that > > > I’ve learned, the deeper the well, the less > > > change. Wells in the > > > 75 to 150 range are subject to many ground water > > influences but at 200 or > > > 300 feet deep, not near as much. > > > > > > Most folks on group use the API Master Test kit that > > sells for around > > > $25.00 dollars and worth every penny. You might > > also get a GH/KH kit > > > for hardness values. Here at my home I hardly > > have any hardness to > > > the water but I have a pH of 5.5 to 5.8 > > constant. It makes buying new fish > > > from tanks kept at neutral conditions a real > > challenge! > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/15/10, kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <kuradi8%40yahoo.com> > > <kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@... <kuradi8%40yahoo.com> > > <kuradi8%40yahoo.com>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual November Woes/Big > > Problem > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 2:45 PM > > > > > > Your comments are well taken, Dawn. > > > > > > My fish are healthy and lively and seemingly happy 11 > > months out of the > > > year. > > > > > > My point (which everyone, including myself, has gotten > > away from) is that > > > something presumably external happens to the water, > > and therefore them, > > > every November. > > > > > > If it were JUST overcrowding, they'd be sick all the > > time -- not just every > > > year from Thanksgiving to Christmas. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Dawn wrote: > > > > > > > > At the risk of being slightly rude I have to > > comment here... > > > > When people buy pets it then becomes their > > responsibility to properly > > > care for those pets. If the care needs exceed > > what the person can > > > accommodate then it becomes their responsibility to > > rehome those animals > > > somewhere they can be properly provided for. > > > > Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, its what we do > > about those mistakes > > > that matters most. To suggest that others pitch > > in to pay for a new house > > > to properly accommodate fish you can no longer > > properly provide for, even in > > > a joking manner, is not funny or very nice. > > There were many honest comments > > > made on this post based on something that can't be > > denied.. those fish are > > > way too big for the tank they are in. In all > > honesty, what is seen in that > > > photo is animal abuse. If that were a dog or cat > > it would become a legal > > > issue in most states. > > > > You stated that they are happy/healthy 11 months > > out of the year, but I > > > don't see how that could be possible. There is a > > lot of internal damage > > > that is done by keeping them in conditions such as > > this, and no I am not > > > referring to the bacterial bloom. If the fish > > were healthy they would have > > > continued to grow until they physically couldn't fit > > into that tank. The > > > fact that they haven't is a clear indication they are > > not healthy. > > > > > > > > I apologize to all who feel my post is over the > > line, but I am being > > > honest, just as others have done here. > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > And you can all pitch in to buy me the > > bigger house to put it in. > > > > > :oP > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > bill 1433 <warrenprint@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai? > > > > > > > > > > > > A bigger tank? 100 to 125 at > > least! Better? A 240! > > > > > > They'll love ya forever! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Laurie Alaimo > > <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Laurie Alaimo > > <environmom95112@> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: > > Annual November Woes/Big Problem > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, > > 5:59 PM > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you could use all of the > > money you spend on > > > > > > > antibiotics every November to > > > > > > > buy them a bigger tank ;) > > Check Craigslist.org for > > > > > > > deals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > From: kuradi8 <kuradi8@> > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 > > 2:55:32 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Annual > > November Woes/Big > > > > > > > Problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I know the tank is > > overcrowded. They have been > > > > > > > this big and this crowded > > > > > > > for years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are happy and healthy 11 > > months out of the year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water problems occur every > > November. We think it > > > > > > > has to do with our well > > > > > > > water. > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > harry perry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This tank is seriously > > overcrowded. Water changes > > > > > > > aren't going to help here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These fish will continuously > > come down with different > > > > > > > ailments. ICH is next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to cut down the > > population quickly. More > > > > > > > tanks or give the fish away > > > > > > > >or sell back to your LFS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't cut back the > > population soon, nature will > > > > > > > do it for you, the hard > > > > > > > >way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > haecklers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they may be > > overcrowded. Tinfoil barbs > > > > > > > are messy fish. I'm not > > > > > > > >doubting your water problems, > > but with that much fish > > > > > > > waste being added to the > > > > > > > >water it seems like it would > > be really hard to keep the > > > > > > > water quality good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what the tank > > looks like today -- right > > > > > > > AFTER a 3-bucket PWC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1062797703/pic/1771383038/view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water is still very > > milky. But the > > > > > > > tinfoils are getting better. > > Not > > > > > > > >quite as splotchy as they were > > last week before their > > > > > > > 2nd course of antibiotics. > > > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to > > > share experience & ask > > > > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING below it when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the > > > > > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > > of the original message > > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > > HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups emails, instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can > > > > > > > change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My > > > > > > > Membership" on the home > > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > > > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time > > in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where > > you > > > > > > > will still be able to read > > messages on the group and post > > > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message > > have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to > > > share experience & ask > > > > > > > ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and > > EVERYTHING below it when > > > > > > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, > > DELETE all TEXT that is > > > > > > > NOT important to the reply & > > if CHANGING the TOPIC of > > > > > > > the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > > > > > > > subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > > > > > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your > > HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the > > groups emails, instead of > > > > > > > unsubscribing, you can change your > > delivery option by > > > > > > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" > > on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a > > > > > > > time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > for the No E-Mail option where you > > will still be able to > > > > > > > read messages on the group and > > post replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com<AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > <AquaticLife-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & > > > ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > > is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" > > <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > > of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit > > My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com>to > > > receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time > > in a single > > > email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>for > > > the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > > messages on > > > the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com<aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com>to > > > receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49743	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

That's a possibility... I must have missed that you have a well... We also do and I know that our water is quite hard without the softener... It is quite possible that the beginning of the bright light triggers something and then you get it under control with the frequent water changes... I wonder what would happen if you started doing water changes twice as often for a week or two before November... just thinking that if it IS bacterial blooms then cutting the bacteria level down lower could help prevent (lessen) the effect of the bloom..... Lauren On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:21 PM, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > Light might be a culprit, Lauren. In November, the leaves are off the trees > and the big south-facing window gets hit with direct light. Direct sunlight > doesn't hit the tank but the living room (tank is in the dining room) gets > quite bright. > > But with medications, chemicals and lots of PWC, the water clears up around > Christmas. We joke that it's our annual "Christmas Miracle." By then and > throughout January, February and March, there's snow on the ground and light > reflects from all directions, including the north-facing sliding glass door > in the dining room. Those are brighter months than Thanksgiving through > Christmas. > > Could it be the *beginning* of the bright season that spurs the bloom? > > As suggested here, I think the biggest reason has something to do with our > well water. I keep the same PWC schedule year-round -- except when they're > sick, and then it's every few days, as needed. We are very close to a > lake/pond, and the theory is that the fall bio-decay (lake-weed, swamp > growth, fallen leaves, etc) somehow seeps into our well water and bacteria > blooms in time for their November water changes. Fortunately, it doesn't > seem to affect us, but the poor fish..... > ~Kai > > > > Lauren Moore wrote: > > > > Could it be a change in light? Are they near a window or something? I've > never had a tank get milky like that personally but it's possible that if > the light source changed enough that you could end up with a bacterial > bloom... That could/would make the water milky... > > > > Perhaps (not bashing your fish-keeping, just thinking out loud), you > lessen the frequency of your water changes near the beginning of November? > You mention that it starts near Thanksgiving... perhaps a busy schedule > means less time for the fish? I know it does at my house!! that would give > the bacteria more time to populate and possibly take over the tank creating > the milky water and increases the chance for disease and general poor health > of the fish... > > > > another possibility... if you are gone over Thanksgiving and have someone > else come in to feed the fish are they getting too much food and not enough > water changes? > > > > Finally, do you have a water test-kit to test a bunch of parameters? Not > a dip-stick but a real test kit? I used that on my fiance's mother's tank > because she started having algal blooms every fall and couldn't figure out > why (like PEA-GREEN water!!) and we found out that the nitrates and nitrites > were high and due to the season more light came in through the window they > were near and caused the algae to thrive... Might be something that > simple... > > > > Just a few thoughts... Hope something helps. > > > > Lauren > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49744	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/15/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

If the problem is coming from the well water wouldn't it make sense that more water changes would worsen the problem? Have you tested the tap water before putting it into the tank at that time of year? ( just before through when the changes start to happen) If I was dealing with this problem my first sets of testing wouldn't be the tank as much as the well water, before the changes happen and then regularly during the course of the changes happening, and I would be documenting it all to compare to testing after the Christmas clear up as well. Quite often when there is a bacteria bloom ammonia and/or nitrite will fluctuate, and as the nitrite comes down, the bloom disappears. Have you tried switching over to bottled or RO water during the weeks this is due to start? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lauren Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > That's a possibility... I must have missed that you have a well... We also > do and I know that our water is quite hard without the softener... It is > quite possible that the beginning of the bright light triggers something and > then you get it under control with the frequent water changes... > > I wonder what would happen if you started doing water changes twice as often > for a week or two before November... just thinking that if it IS bacterial > blooms then cutting the bacteria level down lower could help prevent > (lessen) the effect of the bloom..... > > Lauren > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:21 PM, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Light might be a culprit, Lauren. In November, the leaves are off the trees > > and the big south-facing window gets hit with direct light. Direct sunlight > > doesn't hit the tank but the living room (tank is in the dining room) gets > > quite bright. > > > > But with medications, chemicals and lots of PWC, the water clears up around > > Christmas. We joke that it's our annual "Christmas Miracle." By then and > > throughout January, February and March, there's snow on the ground and light > > reflects from all directions, including the north-facing sliding glass door > > in the dining room. Those are brighter months than Thanksgiving through > > Christmas. > > > > Could it be the *beginning* of the bright season that spurs the bloom? > > > > As suggested here, I think the biggest reason has something to do with our > > well water. I keep the same PWC schedule year-round -- except when they're > > sick, and then it's every few days, as needed. We are very close to a > > lake/pond, and the theory is that the fall bio-decay (lake-weed, swamp > > growth, fallen leaves, etc) somehow seeps into our well water and bacteria > > blooms in time for their November water changes. Fortunately, it doesn't > > seem to affect us, but the poor fish..... > > ~Kai > > > > > > > Lauren Moore wrote: > > > > > > Could it be a change in light? Are they near a window or something? I've > > never had a tank get milky like that personally but it's possible that if > > the light source changed enough that you could end up with a bacterial > > bloom... That could/would make the water milky... > > > > > > Perhaps (not bashing your fish-keeping, just thinking out loud), you > > lessen the frequency of your water changes near the beginning of November? > > You mention that it starts near Thanksgiving... perhaps a busy schedule > > means less time for the fish? I know it does at my house!! that would give > > the bacteria more time to populate and possibly take over the tank creating > > the milky water and increases the chance for disease and general poor health > > of the fish... > > > > > > another possibility... if you are gone over Thanksgiving and have someone > > else come in to feed the fish are they getting too much food and not enough > > water changes? > > > > > > Finally, do you have a water test-kit to test a bunch of parameters? Not > > a dip-stick but a real test kit? I used that on my fiance's mother's tank > > because she started having algal blooms every fall and couldn't figure out > > why (like PEA-GREEN water!!) and we found out that the nitrates and nitrites > > were high and due to the season more light came in through the window they > > were near and caused the algae to thrive... Might be something that > > simple... > > > > > > Just a few thoughts... Hope something helps. > > > > > > Lauren > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49745	From: Lauren Moore	Date: 12/16/2010
Subject: Re: Annual November Woes/Big Problem

Sorry, I guess I was confusing... I meant that if it was a light problem that was causing it then more frequent water changes may help... If it's a source water problem then yes, that would probably mean more water changes would be worse. Lauren On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:09 AM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > If the problem is coming from the well water wouldn't it make sense that > more water changes would worsen the problem? Have you tested the tap water > before putting it into the tank at that time of year? ( just before through > when the changes start to happen) If I was dealing with this problem my > first sets of testing wouldn't be the tank as much as the well water, before > the changes happen and then regularly during the course of the changes > happening, and I would be documenting it all to compare to testing after the > Christmas clear up as well. > Quite often when there is a bacteria bloom ammonia and/or nitrite will > fluctuate, and as the nitrite comes down, the bloom disappears. > > Have you tried switching over to bottled or RO water during the weeks this > is due to start? > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Lauren > Moore <crested.tern.09@...> wrote: > > > > That's a possibility... I must have missed that you have a well... We > also > > do and I know that our water is quite hard without the softener... It is > > quite possible that the beginning of the bright light triggers something > and > > then you get it under control with the frequent water changes... > > > > I wonder what would happen if you started doing water changes twice as > often > > for a week or two before November... just thinking that if it IS > bacterial > > blooms then cutting the bacteria level down lower could help prevent > > (lessen) the effect of the bloom..... > > > > Lauren > > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:21 PM, kuradi8 <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Light might be a culprit, Lauren. In November, the leaves are off the > trees > > > and the big south-facing window gets hit with direct light. Direct > sunlight > > > doesn't hit the tank but the living room (tank is in the dining room) > gets > > > quite bright. > > > > > > But with medications, chemicals and lots of PWC, the water clears up > around > > > Christmas. We joke that it's our annual "Christmas Miracle." By then > and > > > throughout January, February and March, there's snow on the ground and > light > > > reflects from all directions, including the north-facing sliding glass > door > > > in the dining room. Those are brighter months than Thanksgiving through > > > Christmas. > > > > > > Could it be the *beginning* of the bright season that spurs the bloom? > > > > > > As suggested here, I think the biggest reason has something to do with > our > > > well water. I keep the same PWC schedule year-round -- except when > they're > > > sick, and then it's every few days, as needed. We are very close to a > > > lake/pond, and the theory is that the fall bio-decay (lake-weed, swamp > > > growth, fallen leaves, etc) somehow seeps into our well water and > bacteria > > > blooms in time for their November water changes. Fortunately, it > doesn't > > > seem to affect us, but the poor fish..... > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > Lauren Moore wrote: > > > > > > > > Could it be a change in light? Are they near a window or something? > I've > > > never had a tank get milky like that personally but it's possible that > if > > > the light source changed enough that you could end up with a bacterial > > > bloom... That could/would make the water milky... > > > > > > > > Perhaps (not bashing your fish-keeping, just thinking out loud), you > > > lessen the frequency of your water changes near the beginning of > November? > > > You mention that it starts near Thanksgiving... perhaps a busy schedule > > > means less time for the fish? I know it does at my house!! that would > give > > > the bacteria more time to populate and possibly take over the tank > creating > > > the milky water and increases the chance for disease and general poor > health > > > of the fish... > > > > > > > > another possibility... if you are gone over Thanksgiving and have > someone > > > else come in to feed the fish are they getting too much food and not > enough > > > water changes? > > > > > > > > Finally, do you have a water test-kit to test a bunch of parameters? > Not > > > a dip-stick but a real test kit? I used that on my fiance's mother's > tank > > > because she started having algal blooms every fall and couldn't figure > out > > > why (like PEA-GREEN water!!) and we found out that the nitrates and > nitrites > > > were high and due to the season more light came in through the window > they > > > were near and caused the algae to thrive... Might be something that > > > simple... > > > > > > > > Just a few thoughts... Hope something helps. > > > > > > > > Lauren > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49746	From: feddersenmark	Date: 12/16/2010
Subject: New member intro & water softener?s

Folks, I just joined this group and feel I should tell you a little about myself before I start asking questions. I have been keeping tropical freshwater fish and plants for just over 50 years. At one point I was in the retail fish business in a shop with over 150 tanks, 400 varieties of fish and 40 varieties of plants. I am mostly interested in S. American species (dwarf cichlids, angels, tetras, etc.). Plants are a passion and I am always looking for quality suppliers and different species. Currently, I have only two tanks...a 180gal and a 75gal. I have no more room and I do not I want any more tanks. I'm retired and these two tanks keep me busy. Both tanks are 100% R.O. with a ph of about 6.9. I do weekly 20% water changes, adding back trace elements and minerals and fertilization. Natural river gravel substrate with laterite added is used. Florescent strip lights with ZooMed 5000K, 5500K, and 6500K bulbs glowing for 10 hours a day and CO2 injection insures that the plants thrive and need to be pruned almost weekly. My first question has to do with water chemistry. We are on a private well with very hard water. My current water softener crapped out several years ago and I need to do something for the sake of the household appliances. I would like to try one of the salt free softeners, possibly the EasyWater product, but would like to hear some comments on their performance. It will be installed upstream of the R.O. unit and I would like to know if there will be any adverse effect on my R.O. water. I would think not... it should improve the performance of the R.O. unit in my mind, but I don't know. Anybody out there have any input or other suggestions on water softener brands or type? Thanks in advance. Mark Feddersen Denver, Iowa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49747	From: Ray	Date: 12/17/2010
Subject: Re: New member intro & water softener?s

Hi Mark, Welcome to the Group, and I look forward to your input. Hopefully, wee can fill you in on the questions you may be posing also. You're in good company here, as a number of the members here have similar experience to yours in tropical fish, in keeping them for 40, 50 and 60+ years, and having been in either/and the retail, wholesale, importing and breeding avenues of them in the hobby and industry. Now, getting to your question at hand, as you're probably aware, there are several salt-free water "softener" units on the market, with EasyWater being just one (but a good one) of them -- if this fits your purpose. Other manufacturers you may want to look into are; Pelican (with their NaturSoft), GMX and Next Filtration Technologies, Inc. (with their brandname, Green Wave/USwatersystems), using "Next Scale Stop" media. By comparison, Next Filtration Technologies is the most effective unit, being 80% efficient. It should be noted that none of them using this technology is 100% efficient. I'm not sure how much you actually know about these units, but to fill you (or others) in on how they work, their main purpose is to prevent scale build-up (in pipes, etc.), which they do fairly effectively. Most of them work on an electronic or electro-magnetic principle as they "condition" the water by preventing it, via this process, from sticking to any surface. They are not designed to actually soften water, nor do they remove any of the hardening minerals such as Calcium or Magnesium. They do save on water heater replacements, though, as a result of their process. They will still leave a calcium build up in showers, however, since these minerals remain in the water. Too, EasyWater -- which you have suggested as purchasing -- does not soften water either, but conditions it with using Radio Frequency (RF) in preventing scale. Along with this scale-prevention benefit, you will notice the "slick feel" of the water that normally accompanies soft water; this is again due to these units' conditioning processes. One notably more efficient "water softener" unit is Template Assisted Crystalization, which is closer to 100% efficient in using a process called MAT (Matrix Enabled Particulization), although it too does not actually soften water as in removing calcium or magnesium. Instead, it converts the dissolved calcium and magnesium into microscopic crystals -- which again, saves on water heater replacements. As for how any of these units would effect your R/O unit, I don't see a detriment, but then too I don't see any particular benefit as the minerals are not actually removed from the water. Getting to your use of 100% R/O water though, while this practice may seem beneficial to you for those soft-water-loving South American fishes you're most interested in, such water having the extreme of little dissolved minerals has an adverse effect on the fishes long term. Even these species of fishes enjoying (preferring) soft water should never be maintained in purely mineral-free water as this will eventually have a damaging effect on them with its negative osmotic pressure. As it's said in the physical sciences; "nature abhors a vacuum." Where their is an absence of any substance, and wherever there is an abundance of any substance -- if there is ever a "pathway" to balance these two extremes out, to moderate them more equally, nature will ALWAYS take advantage of it. With near-zero minerals in the R/O water you are using, this near-complete absence of any osmotic pressure (normally due to dissolved minerals) will, in acting on the fishes' bloodstream through the fishes' gills, will in time leach out the calcium in the skeletal structure of these fish. For this same reason, pure R/O water will prevent a normal rate of growth in fishes. It's always adviseable to mix a portion of your tap water with your R/O water when using these units. Depending on the degrees of your GH (and KH), these values will indicate what percentage of tap water would be adequate to mix with your R/O water in creating your desired parameters. Also, with your pure R/O water having no KH, there is no buffering capacity in your water to prevent a sudden crash of your pH, if for some reason either your nitric acid (as a normal result of nitrification) or your free hydrogen ions increase unexpectedly. I understand that you may have been keeping these parameters, even perhaps for many years, and that the hobbyist should follow a path of what works best for them (what works for one does not necessarily work for others), within the confines of proper aquarium maintenance, but pure mineral-free water is a dangerous fence on which to balance since it's too easy (having nothing to support it) for this balance to fall off. You're maintaining your fishes in an unnecessarily potentially dangerous situation which cannot be easily corrected should something drastic occur to your water, and which can occur much more easily with such water. Best of luck, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "feddersenmark" <feddersenmark@...> wrote: > > Folks, > > I just joined this group and feel I should tell you a little about myself before I start asking questions. > > I have been keeping tropical freshwater fish and plants for just over 50 years. At one point I was in the retail fish business in a shop with over 150 tanks, 400 varieties of fish and 40 varieties of plants. > > I am mostly interested in S. American species (dwarf cichlids, angels, tetras, etc.). > > Plants are a passion and I am always looking for quality suppliers and different species. > > Currently, I have only two tanks...a 180gal and a 75gal. I have no more room and I do not I want any more tanks. I'm retired and these two tanks keep me busy. Both tanks are 100% R.O. with a ph of about 6.9. I do weekly 20% water changes, adding back trace elements and minerals and fertilization. Natural river gravel substrate with laterite added is used. Florescent strip lights with ZooMed 5000K, 5500K, and 6500K bulbs glowing for 10 hours a day and CO2 injection insures that the plants thrive and need to be pruned almost weekly. > > My first question has to do with water chemistry. We are on a private well with very hard water. My current water softener crapped out several years ago and I need to do something for the sake of the household appliances. I would like to try one of the salt free softeners, possibly the EasyWater product, but would like to hear some comments on their performance. It will be installed upstream of the R.O. unit and I would like to know if there will be any adverse effect on my R.O. water. I would think not... it should improve the performance of the R.O. unit in my mind, but I don't know. > > Anybody out there have any input or other suggestions on water softener brands or type? > > Thanks in advance. > Mark Feddersen > Denver, Iowa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49748	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/17/2010
Subject: Re: New member intro & water softener?s

Hi Mark - I have a similar situation with extrememly hard well water. I tried a salt-free softener - I can't remember what it was called (actually there were two different ones that I tried) and it was a disaster. My water was still so hard that I could not shower with it because my skin would itch unbearably afterwards. Apparently the ones I tried rearranged the calcium ions such that they did not stick to and corrode the pipes, but they did not remove the hardness minerals the way salt does. I settled on a potassium chloride softener and then use an RO after that. It works very well. I am not sure if you can use a non-salt one with RO, I think it might blow out the RO membrane if I remember correctly (you can ask any of the RO manufacturers). One word of warning: my tap water with the potassium chloride softened water kills all plants and invertebrates. I have compared notes with others and this seems to be a common result. I think the sodium chloride softeners are also problematic, though maybe not as bad. Plant folks with experience say you can't use softened water for planted FW tanks. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 16, 2010, at 10:42 PM, feddersenmark wrote: > Folks, > > I just joined this group and feel I should tell you a little about > myself before I start asking questions. > > I have been keeping tropical freshwater fish and plants for just > over 50 years. At one point I was in the retail fish business in a > shop with over 150 tanks, 400 varieties of fish and 40 varieties of > plants. > > I am mostly interested in S. American species (dwarf cichlids, > angels, tetras, etc.). > > Plants are a passion and I am always looking for quality suppliers > and different species. > > Currently, I have only two tanks...a 180gal and a 75gal. I have no > more room and I do not I want any more tanks. I'm retired and these > two tanks keep me busy. Both tanks are 100% R.O. with a ph of about > 6.9. I do weekly 20% water changes, adding back trace elements and > minerals and fertilization. Natural river gravel substrate with > laterite added is used. Florescent strip lights with ZooMed 5000K, > 5500K, and 6500K bulbs glowing for 10 hours a day and CO2 injection > insures that the plants thrive and need to be pruned almost weekly. > > My first question has to do with water chemistry. We are on a > private well with very hard water. My current water softener > crapped out several years ago and I need to do something for the > sake of the household appliances. I would like to try one of the > salt free softeners, possibly the EasyWater product, but would like > to hear some comments on their performance. It will be installed > upstream of the R.O. unit and I would like to know if there will be > any adverse effect on my R.O. water. I would think not... it should > improve the performance of the R.O. unit in my mind, but I don't know. > > Anybody out there have any input or other suggestions on water > softener brands or type? > > Thanks in advance. > Mark Feddersen > Denver, Iowa > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49749	From: feddersenmark	Date: 12/17/2010
Subject: Re: New member intro & water softener?s

Ray and Lainey, Thank you for your informative replies. I was aware of how the salt-free softeners worked, but needed a first person testimonial. I think what I have decided to do is add a salt type softener downstream of my RO unit so nothing will change as far as my RO water is concerned. It has given me satisfactory results for about 7 years and I see no need to change anything. Ray, as I stated in my post, I add back minerals and trace elements to my RO water, so it is not purely mineral-free. In the 180, I have a pair of P. kribensis guarding fry, another pair with eggs and a pair of wild P. scalare preparing to spawn, so all seems well. There is a fine line when injecting CO2 in RO water between the amount of minerals needed to buffer wide swings of pH and reaping the benefits of the CO2 for plants. So far, I have been able to find that balance. Lainey, you are correct that salt softened water is bad for plants, but I am not sure if a pass through the RO unit would rectify that. I'm not going to take any chances. My plants are thriving and I see no need to make any changes in my water chemistry. Thanks. Mark Feddersen --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lainey Alexander <lainealex@...> wrote: > > Hi Mark - > > I have a similar situation with extrememly hard well water. I tried a > salt-free softener - I can't remember what it was called (actually > there were two different ones that I tried) and it was a disaster. My > water was still so hard that I could not shower with it because my > skin would itch unbearably afterwards. Apparently the ones I tried > rearranged the calcium ions such that they did not stick to and > corrode the pipes, but they did not remove the hardness minerals the > way salt does. > > I settled on a potassium chloride softener and then use an RO after > that. It works very well. I am not sure if you can use a non-salt one > with RO, I think it might blow out the RO membrane if I remember > correctly (you can ask any of the RO manufacturers). > > One word of warning: my tap water with the potassium chloride > softened water kills all plants and invertebrates. I have compared > notes with others and this seems to be a common result. I think the > sodium chloride softeners are also problematic, though maybe not as > bad. Plant folks with experience say you can't use softened water for > planted FW tanks. > > Lainey > http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com > > On Dec 16, 2010, at 10:42 PM, feddersenmark wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I just joined this group and feel I should tell you a little about > > myself before I start asking questions. > > > > I have been keeping tropical freshwater fish and plants for just > > over 50 years. At one point I was in the retail fish business in a > > shop with over 150 tanks, 400 varieties of fish and 40 varieties of > > plants. > > > > I am mostly interested in S. American species (dwarf cichlids, > > angels, tetras, etc.). > > > > Plants are a passion and I am always looking for quality suppliers > > and different species. > > > > Currently, I have only two tanks...a 180gal and a 75gal. I have no > > more room and I do not I want any more tanks. I'm retired and these > > two tanks keep me busy. Both tanks are 100% R.O. with a ph of about > > 6.9. I do weekly 20% water changes, adding back trace elements and > > minerals and fertilization. Natural river gravel substrate with > > laterite added is used. Florescent strip lights with ZooMed 5000K, > > 5500K, and 6500K bulbs glowing for 10 hours a day and CO2 injection > > insures that the plants thrive and need to be pruned almost weekly. > > > > My first question has to do with water chemistry. We are on a > > private well with very hard water. My current water softener > > crapped out several years ago and I need to do something for the > > sake of the household appliances. I would like to try one of the > > salt free softeners, possibly the EasyWater product, but would like > > to hear some comments on their performance. It will be installed > > upstream of the R.O. unit and I would like to know if there will be > > any adverse effect on my R.O. water. I would think not... it should > > improve the performance of the R.O. unit in my mind, but I don't know. > > > > Anybody out there have any input or other suggestions on water > > softener brands or type? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > Mark Feddersen > > Denver, Iowa > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49750	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Desktop Wallpaper: The Spectacle of Underwater Photography

Some of you may have an interest in changing your wallpaper from time to time. Here are a number of photos with a fishy theme that you may wish to use. http://content.techrepublic.com.com/2346-12843_11-489833-1.html?tag=content;leftCol http://tinyurl.com/2ast56n \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49751	From: Lainey Alexander	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Re: New member intro & water softener?s

Hi Mark - Yes, passing soft water through an RO does work well, that is what I do - and then add the GH boosters back in. Lainey http://www.grasslandsgouldians.com On Dec 17, 2010, at 11:17 PM, feddersenmark wrote: > Lainey, you are correct that salt softened water is bad for plants, > but I am not sure if a pass through the RO unit would rectify that. > I'm not going to take any chances. My plants are thriving and I see > no need to make any changes in my water chemistry. Thanks. Mark > Feddersen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49752	From: Aaron Martin	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails

Hi Amber, What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 marbled crays in there as well and they constantly rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering removing all the gravel and putting it into a different tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? What do you feed them? Thanks, Aaron  ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. stop by and see ~ membership is Free! http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@...> Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time frame though). They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do this. I no longer do this though as the darn things will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched recently. Amber On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: yes i am the guy in San Jose  it takes about sixty days  i don't know about the females you should try to have a male just in case but i believe that you don't need a male they will be Born the size of a millimeter  From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> To: Elijah Salazar <elijah258@...> Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM Subject: breeding mystery snails Hi Elijah, I believe your the guy I bought some from in San Jose. After they lay their eggs, how long before they hatch? Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no males? Thanks, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Elijah Salazar <elijah258@...> wrote: > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > you could test your water for nitrates or nitrites > possibly it could be the frog they can be a little feisty > thanks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49753	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails

I have a walstad setup in all of my tanks (so there is soil under my gravel, and all the tanks are heavily planted). So I don't do a lot of gravel cleaning in my tanks, but I do at least once a month go through with a screen on the end of my gravel vac/python cleaner and clean up anything on the surface of the gravel that fits through the net on the end of the tube. I use the mesh you can get for do it yourself window screens for your home, and use a zip tie to secure the net around the end of the tube. This way I don't suck up any fry/snails. Aren't craw-fish aggressive? For some reason I thought they were. I don't know if mystery snails would be a good tank mate to craw-fish if they're aggressive. Amber On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > Hi Amber, > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the moisture in > so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One of the clusters hatched > recently, and when I vacuumed the gravel I got a bunch of baby snails > in the tube. I am thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them > on accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 marbled crays > in there as well and they constantly rearrange the gravel when they > burrow. I was considering removing all the gravel and putting it into > a different tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > What do you feed them? > > Thanks, > Aaron > > /><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > / > /got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > / > AquaticLife**~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > / > stop by and see ~ membership isFree! > > /_http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife_ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife> > / > / > /<º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((></ > > > --- On *Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund /<arberglund@...>/* wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@...> > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a male somewhat > recently. They can carry the eggs and not lay them for awhile (I'm > not sure of the time frame though). > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of sea salt) > when they first hatch out of the pink egg batch. More of them will > hatch if you keep the egg bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I > will do is fold a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way it doesn't > touch the egg batch but it keeps the area directly in front of the > eggs moist and humid. I've had over 100 babies hatch out of the > eggs when I do this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, maybe more. And > I have some that have just hatched recently. > > Amber > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: >> yes i am the guy in San Jose >> it takes about sixty days >> i don't know about the females you should try to have a male just >> in case but i believe that you don't need a male they will be >> Born the size of a millimeter >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" >> </mc/compose?to=AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> >> <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> >> </mc/compose?to=AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> >> *To:* Elijah Salazar <elijah258@...> >> </mc/compose?to=elijah258@...> >> *Sent:* Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM >> *Subject:* breeding mystery snails >> >> Hi Elijah, >> >> I believe your the guy I bought some from in San Jose. >> >> After they lay their eggs, how long before they hatch? >> >> Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no males? >> >> Thanks, >> Aaron >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>, Elijah Salazar >> <elijah258@...> </mc/compose?to=elijah258@...> wrote: >> > >> > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem that your nitrates or >> nitrites are high if >> > you could test your water for nitrates or nitrites >> > possibly it could be the frog they can be a little feisty >> > thanks >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49754	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/18/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails

Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I need a better flavor of tums ;) I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the package calls for). Amber On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > Hi Amber, > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the moisture in > so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One of the clusters hatched > recently, and when I vacuumed the gravel I got a bunch of baby snails > in the tube. I am thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them > on accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 marbled crays > in there as well and they constantly rearrange the gravel when they > burrow. I was considering removing all the gravel and putting it into > a different tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > What do you feed them? > > Thanks, > Aaron > > /><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > / > /got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > / > AquaticLife**~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > / > stop by and see ~ membership isFree! > > /_http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife_ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife> > / > / > /<º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((></ > > > --- On *Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund /<arberglund@...>/* wrote: > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@...> > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a male somewhat > recently. They can carry the eggs and not lay them for awhile (I'm > not sure of the time frame though). > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of sea salt) > when they first hatch out of the pink egg batch. More of them will > hatch if you keep the egg bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I > will do is fold a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way it doesn't > touch the egg batch but it keeps the area directly in front of the > eggs moist and humid. I've had over 100 babies hatch out of the > eggs when I do this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, maybe more. And > I have some that have just hatched recently. > > Amber > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: >> yes i am the guy in San Jose >> it takes about sixty days >> i don't know about the females you should try to have a male just >> in case but i believe that you don't need a male they will be >> Born the size of a millimeter >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" >> </mc/compose?to=AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> >> <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> >> </mc/compose?to=AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> >> *To:* Elijah Salazar <elijah258@...> >> </mc/compose?to=elijah258@...> >> *Sent:* Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM >> *Subject:* breeding mystery snails >> >> Hi Elijah, >> >> I believe your the guy I bought some from in San Jose. >> >> After they lay their eggs, how long before they hatch? >> >> Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no males? >> >> Thanks, >> Aaron >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> </mc/compose?to=AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>, Elijah Salazar >> <elijah258@...> </mc/compose?to=elijah258@...> wrote: >> > >> > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem that your nitrates or >> nitrites are high if >> > you could test your water for nitrates or nitrites >> > possibly it could be the frog they can be a little feisty >> > thanks >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49755	From: William M	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails

I find that my marbled crawfish are not too aggressive toward fish but they do eat snails. The baby mystery snails would be a favorite for them. They do not bother the plants too much except for Java moss which they love. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever I > feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They don't seem > to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I need a better > flavor of tums ;) > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last batch > didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on finding the > right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix vegetables and > various seafood into a blender with some brewer's yeast and garlic > (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). Then I mix this with > gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if you try this out make sure > you double the amount of gelatin than the package calls for). > > Amber > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the moisture in > > so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One of the clusters hatched > > recently, and when I vacuumed the gravel I got a bunch of baby snails > > in the tube. I am thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them > > on accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 marbled crays > > in there as well and they constantly rearrange the gravel when they > > burrow. I was considering removing all the gravel and putting it into > > a different tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > > > /><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > / > > /got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > / > > AquaticLife**~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > / > > stop by and see ~ membership isFree! > > > > /_http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife_ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife> > > / > > / > > /<º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((></ > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund /<arberglund@...>/* wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@...> > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a male somewhat > > recently. They can carry the eggs and not lay them for awhile (I'm > > not sure of the time frame though). > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of sea salt) > > when they first hatch out of the pink egg batch. More of them will > > hatch if you keep the egg bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I > > will do is fold a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way it doesn't > > touch the egg batch but it keeps the area directly in front of the > > eggs moist and humid. I've had over 100 babies hatch out of the > > eggs when I do this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, maybe more. And > > I have some that have just hatched recently. > > > > Amber > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > >> yes i am the guy in San Jose > >> it takes about sixty days > >> i don't know about the females you should try to have a male just > >> in case but i believe that you don't need a male they will be > >> Born the size of a millimeter > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> *From:* "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" > >> </mc/compose?to=AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> > >> <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> > >> </mc/compose?to=AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> > >> *To:* Elijah Salazar <elijah258@...> > >> </mc/compose?to=elijah258@...> > >> *Sent:* Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > >> *Subject:* breeding mystery snails > >> > >> Hi Elijah, > >> > >> I believe your the guy I bought some from in San Jose. > >> > >> After they lay their eggs, how long before they hatch? > >> > >> Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no males? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Aaron > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> </mc/compose?to=AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>, Elijah Salazar > >> <elijah258@> </mc/compose?to=elijah258@> wrote: > >> > > >> > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem that your nitrates or > >> nitrites are high if > >> > you could test your water for nitrates or nitrites > >> > possibly it could be the frog they can be a little feisty > >> > thanks > >> > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49756	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails

You have marmokrebs too? Where do you keep them? Mine's eggs just hatched and we're finding the babies on the walls of the tank sometimes now. I have some really nice planted tanks and those are the only ones that don't contain fish that would eat the little crayfish. I thought it would be fun to put in a few small marmokrebs when they get too big for the betta to eat but worried they'd mow down all the plants. What do you feed yours? I put a couple of guppies in with mine and the marmokrebs seem to get along fine just eating food the guppies miss and the algae that grows. They seem impossibly low-maintenance so I worry I'm neglecting them. Our other crayfish eats the elodea plants in his tank and snails and seems fine just on those two things. Both tanks also have duckweed and I've got no way of knowing if they climb the filter and eat that as well. These seem to me like perfect "biosphere" type creatures if that's all they need! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > I find that my marbled crawfish are not too aggressive toward fish but they do eat snails. The baby mystery snails would be a favorite for them. They do not bother the plants too much except for Java moss which they love.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49757	From: Melani	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: (new here ) kribensis questions

Hi does anyone know anything about kribensis. I have four kribensis. A albino and three regs. I would like to breed them but the albino male ( I am sure on the sexs ) Doesn't like the female who is obbsesed with him. I have a pair who i am sure are a pair. I am going to move them to a diffrent tank alone to try to breed them tommorow. Any tips on breeding whould be good. I have no idea what to do. The four are fighting terribly but i can't move the pair until tommorow. The four are lip locking even. help and tips would be grately appreciated. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49758	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Weird Fish of the Week: Tripod Fish

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3456&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_17_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_of_the_week:_Tripod_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2fqaue6 Weird fish of the week: Tripod fish This week's weird fish is another from the depths of the world's oceans. Bathypterois grallator, commonly known as the Tripod fish, is a true oddity. Usually found at depths of between 750 and 4700m, they get their name from the way they hunt. The fish uses greatly elongated pelvic and lower caudal fin rays to stand raised on the sea bed like a tripod. Once settled it turns its head into the direction of water movement and waits motionless in the dark until it detects potential prey items using its extended pectoral fins, which it holds out above its head like antenna. These fins then direct the food towards its huge mouth. This method of hunting is extremely low in energy use and ideal for a predator living in the virtual desert of the deep ocean. Living in perpetual darkness, the fish's eyes have disappeared almost completely. Its scientific name is derived from the Greek, 'bathy' from bathus meaning deep and 'pterois' meaning feathery (Pterois is also a genus of marine fish that includes the lionfish, Pterois volitans which also has feathery fins), while 'grallator' means stilt walker. Growing to around 30cm/12in, their specialised fins are almost three times that length. Tripod fish are synchronous hermaphrodites, being able to produce both sperm and eggs, another adaptation to living a solitary existence in such a sparsely populated environment. If two fish do meet they will breed, but they are capable of producing offspring by themselves. Tripod fish are widely distributed throughout most of the world's deep oceans. Why not check out the other Weird fish of the week features? Lumpsucker Ocean sunfish Two-headed arowana Stargazers Giant oarfish Published: Bob Mehen Wednesday 15 December 2010, 8:53 pm \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49759	From: Aaron Martin	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails

Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other Minerals? Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. Somebody mentioned Spinach, is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? I will be removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to themselves. So do you use just plain Gelatin? I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, but I have not seen them do so yet. A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. Thanks again, Aaron  ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. stop by and see ~ membership is Free! http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@...> Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I need a better flavor of tums ;) I do usually have  a homemade food that I feed them, but the last batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the package calls for). Amber On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: Hi Amber, What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 marbled crays in there as well and they constantly rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering removing all the gravel and putting it into a different tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? What do you feed them? Thanks, Aaron   ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. stop by and see ~ membership is Free! http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@...> Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time frame though). They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do this. I no longer do this though as the darn things will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched recently. Amber On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: yes i am the guy in San Jose  it takes about sixty days  i don't know about the females you should try to have a male just in case but i believe that you don't need a male they will be Born the size of a millimeter  From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> To: Elijah Salazar <elijah258@...> Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM Subject: breeding mystery snails Hi Elijah, I believe your the guy I bought some from in San Jose. After they lay their eggs, how long before they hatch? Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no males? Thanks, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Elijah Salazar <elijah258@...> wrote: > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > you could test your water for nitrates or nitrites > possibly it could be the frog they can be a little feisty > thanks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49760	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs

These are new to me. I have 4 in 3 tanks, 2 together and 2 separate. 1 had dark colored eggs, but they are all gone now with no signs of hatching. Will they eat there own eggs? I feed them 3 different kinds of Algae Wafers and Carnivore Pellets. What else wood be good food for them? Thanks, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > You have marmokrebs too? Where do you keep them? Mine's eggs just hatched and we're finding the babies on the walls of the tank sometimes now. I have some really nice planted tanks and those are the only ones that don't contain fish that would eat the little crayfish. I thought it would be fun to put in a few small marmokrebs when they get too big for the betta to eat but worried they'd mow down all the plants. > > What do you feed yours? I put a couple of guppies in with mine and the marmokrebs seem to get along fine just eating food the guppies miss and the algae that grows. They seem impossibly low-maintenance so I worry I'm neglecting them. Our other crayfish eats the elodea plants in his tank and snails and seems fine just on those two things. Both tanks also have duckweed and I've got no way of knowing if they climb the filter and eat that as well. > > These seem to me like perfect "biosphere" type creatures if that's all they need! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@> wrote: > > > > I find that my marbled crawfish are not too aggressive toward fish but they do eat snails. The baby mystery snails would be a favorite for them. They do not bother the plants too much except for Java moss which they love. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49761	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails

Speaking of snails anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don’t mind having them, but they are taking over a bit I am in need of some natural population control. ;-) Eric From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Martin Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 To: arberglund@... Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other Minerals? Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. Somebody mentioned Spinach, is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? I will be removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to themselves. So do you use just plain Gelatin? I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, but I have not seen them do so yet. A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. Thanks again, Aaron ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. stop by and see ~ membership is Free! http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I need a better flavor of tums ;) I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the package calls for). Amber On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: Hi Amber, What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 marbled crays in there as well and they constantly rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering removing all the gravel and putting it into a different tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? What do you feed them? Thanks, Aaron ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. stop by and see ~ membership is Free! http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@... <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time frame though). They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do this. I no longer do this though as the darn things will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched recently. Amber On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: yes i am the guy in San Jose it takes about sixty days i don't know about the females you should try to have a male just in case but i believe that you don't need a male they will be Born the size of a millimeter From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > To: Elijah Salazar <elijah258@... <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM Subject: breeding mystery snails Hi Elijah, I believe your the guy I bought some from in San Jose. After they lay their eggs, how long before they hatch? Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no males? Thanks, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Elijah Salazar <elijah258@...> wrote: > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > you could test your water for nitrates or nitrites > possibly it could be the frog they can be a little feisty > thanks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49762	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish

I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot shrimp that would likely get eaten too. Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Speaking of snails anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit I am in need of some > natural population control. ;-) > > > > Eric > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > To: arberglund@... > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > Minerals? > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > I will be > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > themselves. > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > Thanks again, > Aaron > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > package calls for). > > Amber > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > Hi Amber, > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > What do you feed them? > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > got > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > got a Group for you! > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > Fish Group. > > stop by and see ~ > membership is > Free! > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@... > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > frame though). > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > recently. > > Amber > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > it takes about sixty days > i don't know about the females you should try > to have a male just in case but i believe that > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > of a millimeter > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > To: > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@... <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > Sent: > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > Subject: > breeding mystery snails > > Hi Elijah, > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > San Jose. > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > they hatch? > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > males? > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > wrote: > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > nitrites > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > a little feisty > > > thanks > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49763	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Help xtra pregnant guppy

My gawd my guppy who already had one batch of fry has been getting bigger and bigger. I have had guppies that birthed two dozen fry in one day and they weren't this big. She could have 30 or 40 in there. She looks so uncomfortable but is still eating, pooing and active. She does not have dropsy or any pineconing but I am seriously afraid her fins/skin won't stretch any further. As in, she will tear somewhere. I've been on fry watch for 3 days now and am very concerned. Should I try putting her in a tank with epsom salts to reduce swelling and induce labor? If I put her in a breeding box is she more likely to start having them or does she need to swim around to get it started? Please get back to me Bren Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49764	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish

I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food supports a larger snail population. After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is healthier. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot shrimp that would likely get eaten too. Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > natural population control. ;-) > > > > Eric > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > To: arberglund@... > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > Minerals? > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > I will be > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > themselves. > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > Thanks again, > Aaron > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > package calls for). > > Amber > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > Hi Amber, > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > What do you feed them? > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > got > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > got a Group for you! > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > Fish Group. > > stop by and see ~ > membership is > Free! > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@... > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > frame though). > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > recently. > > Amber > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > it takes about sixty days > i don't know about the females you should try > to have a male just in case but i believe that > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > of a millimeter > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > To: > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@... <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > Sent: > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > Subject: > breeding mystery snails > > Hi Elijah, > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > San Jose. > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > they hatch? > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > males? > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > wrote: > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > nitrites > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > a little feisty > > > thanks > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49765	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs

I bet you've got babies and they're hiding somewhere. I read they don't eat each other, especially if you are feeding them. They probably only come out at night. Last night I found one standing on the wall of the tank, motionless. Later it was gone and I couldn't find it. I found my baby marmokrebs by accident when I was vacuuming the substrate. One was swimming in the bucket and I thankfully noticed it before I dumped it. It was about 1/2" long and really hard to see - kind of a grey color that blended in with the mulm. I think most are hiding in the substrate, because I've only seen one other one, but she must have had at least 30 eggs on her. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ryf_raph" <aaron102272@...> wrote: > > These are new to me. > > I have 4 in 3 tanks, 2 together and 2 separate. > > 1 had dark colored eggs, but they are all gone now with no signs of hatching. > > Will they eat there own eggs? > > I feed them 3 different kinds of Algae Wafers and Carnivore Pellets. > > What else wood be good food for them? > > Thanks, > Aaron > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > You have marmokrebs too? Where do you keep them? Mine's eggs just hatched and we're finding the babies on the walls of the tank sometimes now. I have some really nice planted tanks and those are the only ones that don't contain fish that would eat the little crayfish. I thought it would be fun to put in a few small marmokrebs when they get too big for the betta to eat but worried they'd mow down all the plants. > > > > What do you feed yours? I put a couple of guppies in with mine and the marmokrebs seem to get along fine just eating food the guppies miss and the algae that grows. They seem impossibly low-maintenance so I worry I'm neglecting them. Our other crayfish eats the elodea plants in his tank and snails and seems fine just on those two things. Both tanks also have duckweed and I've got no way of knowing if they climb the filter and eat that as well. > > > > These seem to me like perfect "biosphere" type creatures if that's all they need! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@> wrote: > > > > > > I find that my marbled crawfish are not too aggressive toward fish but they do eat snails. The baby mystery snails would be a favorite for them. They do not bother the plants too much except for Java moss which they love. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49766	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish

There are a kind of snail called "assassin snails" that look like the Malaysian Trumpet Snails and eat other snails. I read about a snail trap where you stuff a lettuce leaf in a small jar, submerge it, and in the morning remove the leaf and all the snails on it. It doesn't get rid of all of them but is supposed to really help thin the population. My shrimp tank is over-run with snails, too, but the cichlids and crayfish love to eat them. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ryf_raph" <aaron102272@...> wrote: > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49767	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: Help xtra pregnant guppy

I have a mature Endler's guppy (they're smaller than regular guppies) and she pops out around 60 fry at a time now. They do start to look uncomfortable toward the end. Their vent area gets kind of squared off before they give birth. She may have parasites besides, that will make their bellies swell. You can try making an Epsom Salt solution - 1 tablespoon of Epsom Salt in 500 ml of water and use a little to soak her food for 3 feedings/day for 3 days and if she has worms you'll see her passing long, stringy poops then look thinner. I just treated my guppies for worms and they're a LOT thinner now! They got so many worms they quit breeding for awhile! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, safirezprincess@... wrote: > > My gawd my guppy who already had one batch of fry has been getting bigger and bigger. I have had guppies that birthed two dozen fry in one day and they weren't this big. She could have 30 or 40 in there. She looks so uncomfortable but is still eating, pooing and active. She does not have dropsy or any pineconing but I am seriously afraid her fins/skin won't stretch any further. As in, she will tear somewhere. I've been on fry watch for 3 days now and am very concerned. Should I try putting her in a tank with epsom salts to reduce swelling and induce labor? If I put her in a breeding box is she more likely to start having them or does she need to swim around to get it started? Please get back to me > Bren > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49768	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs

One thing I forgot to add - my 3 albino cory cats continuously browse the plants for what I believe to be snail eggs. There are no shrimp in that tank, and I do not know if the cory's would eat shrimp, but they seem to help with the snail population. Now for my question: is it possible to have fish eggs hatch in a tank with snails? The above mentioned cory cats recently began laying eggs - twice so far - and each time, snails ate them. This is a moderately planted tank, and most of the eggs that were visible were out of the anglefishes reach, but those darned snails got them. Is the only way to save the eggs to move the corys to a snail-free tank? ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:30:17 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food supports a larger snail population. After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is healthier. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot shrimp that would likely get eaten too. Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > natural population control. ;-) > > > > Eric > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > To: arberglund@... > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > Minerals? > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > I will be > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > themselves. > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > Thanks again, > Aaron > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > package calls for). > > Amber > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > Hi Amber, > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > What do you feed them? > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > got > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > got a Group for you! > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > Fish Group. > > stop by and see ~ > membership is > Free! > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@... > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > frame though). > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > recently. > > Amber > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > it takes about sixty days > i don't know about the females you should try > to have a male just in case but i believe that > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > of a millimeter > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > To: > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@... <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > Sent: > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > Subject: > breeding mystery snails > > Hi Elijah, > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > San Jose. > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > they hatch? > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > males? > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > wrote: > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > nitrites > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > a little feisty > > > thanks > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49769	From: Laurie Alaimo	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs

I have some regular crayfish in the turtle tank. I love them and would love to have a few marmokrebs. Where can I find them? One of my crayfish had eggs so I put her in her own 10 gallon tank. That tank is now inhabited by at least 40 1 inch babies. They are so cute! The eat regular fish food flakes, crab bites, sinking pellets, carnivore bites, spinach, broccoli, green beans, left-over chicken or turkey - in other words, almost anything. I have also seen them eating snails, and yes, the do like the plants. The only plants I have in there are anacharis and hornwort, some frogbit and duckweed - they eat all of the them. My intention was to raise them to feed to the turtles, but my oh my, I cannot do it! They are just too cute. Not sure what I will do with them. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: haecklers <haecklers@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:29:52 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding marmokrebs I bet you've got babies and they're hiding somewhere. I read they don't eat each other, especially if you are feeding them. They probably only come out at night. Last night I found one standing on the wall of the tank, motionless. Later it was gone and I couldn't find it. I found my baby marmokrebs by accident when I was vacuuming the substrate. One was swimming in the bucket and I thankfully noticed it before I dumped it. It was about 1/2" long and really hard to see - kind of a grey color that blended in with the mulm. I think most are hiding in the substrate, because I've only seen one other one, but she must have had at least 30 eggs on her. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ryf_raph" <aaron102272@...> wrote: > > These are new to me. > > I have 4 in 3 tanks, 2 together and 2 separate. > > 1 had dark colored eggs, but they are all gone now with no signs of hatching. > > Will they eat there own eggs? > > I feed them 3 different kinds of Algae Wafers and Carnivore Pellets. > > What else wood be good food for them? > > Thanks, > Aaron > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > You have marmokrebs too? Where do you keep them? Mine's eggs just hatched >and we're finding the babies on the walls of the tank sometimes now. I have >some really nice planted tanks and those are the only ones that don't contain >fish that would eat the little crayfish. I thought it would be fun to put in a >few small marmokrebs when they get too big for the betta to eat but worried >they'd mow down all the plants. > > > > What do you feed yours? I put a couple of guppies in with mine and the >marmokrebs seem to get along fine just eating food the guppies miss and the >algae that grows. They seem impossibly low-maintenance so I worry I'm >neglecting them. Our other crayfish eats the elodea plants in his tank and >snails and seems fine just on those two things. Both tanks also have duckweed >and I've got no way of knowing if they climb the filter and eat that as well. > > > > These seem to me like perfect "biosphere" type creatures if that's all they >need! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@> wrote: > > > > > > I find that my marbled crawfish are not too aggressive toward fish but they >do eat snails. The baby mystery snails would be a favorite for them. They do not >bother the plants too much except for Java moss which they love. > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49770	From: haecklers	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs

I got mine on aquabid. I've seen another kind on aquabid - a dwarf crayfish that only grows to the size of a small shrimp. They're bright orange and very cool looking, but cost around $95 each! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > I have some regular crayfish in the turtle tank. I love them and would love to > have a few marmokrebs. Where can I find them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49771	From: Aquatic Life Group Owner	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal

I feed the fish in the 55gal tank sparingly 3 or 4 times each week. They get Live food too, some of which survive to be eaten another day. The pest snails (pond & ramshorn) seem to just eat the plants all the time. It puts unsightly holes all over the plants, then the plants "bleed" oxygen bubbles. Plus they lay eggs all over everything. I also have Olive & Zebra Nerite Snails that I like because they do not appear to be eating the plants and their eggs supposedly only hatch in salt or brackish water (unfortunately, as I would like to encourage them to breed as they are rather expensive and the "Zebra" pattern is nice). I also have a lot of MTS that burrow in the substrate. I like them too, I understand they are Live Bearers - hence no unsightly eggs. I just want to eliminate the pest like Pond and Ramshorn without killing the Apple/Mytery, MTS & Nerite Snails or any Shrimp/Crawfish. So I get that copper is out. If I were to remove all the plants (temporarily to treat them) - What could I dip them in to kill the eggs? thanks, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food supports a larger snail population. > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is healthier. > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > To: arberglund@ > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > Minerals? > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > I will be > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > > themselves. > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > Thanks again, > > Aaron > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@ > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@ <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > package calls for). > > > > Amber > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Aaron > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > got > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > got a Group for you! > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > Fish Group. > > > > stop by and see ~ > > membership is > > Free! > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@ > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > frame though). > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > recently. > > > > Amber > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > it takes about sixty days > > i don't know about the females you should try > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > of a millimeter > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > To: > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@ <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > Sent: > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > Subject: > > breeding mystery snails > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > San Jose. > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > they hatch? > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > males? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Aaron > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > nitrites > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > a little feisty > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49772	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding marmokrebs

I am in the San Francisco Bay Area, I got mine from a Craigslist ad, also the local Fish Clubs had some at the auctions. If your near here, I have a couple extras. I got interested in these after raising (unintentionally) a bunch of Regular Red Common Crawfish I got for a few cents each from a Grocery Store to feed to my Giant Australian Red Claw Yabbie. They were showing eggs within a few days so I put each into a separate tank and ended up with a couple hundred little ones. I gave several dozen, about a week old, to a friend and most of his turned blue, then they bred all blue babies, but he neglected his tank and almost all died. What would cause them to turn blue? Thanks, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > I have some regular crayfish in the turtle tank. I love them and would love to > have a few marmokrebs. Where can I find them? > > > One of my crayfish had eggs so I put her in her own 10 gallon tank. That tank > is now inhabited by at least 40 1 inch babies. They are so cute! The eat > regular fish food flakes, crab bites, sinking pellets, carnivore bites, spinach, > broccoli, green beans, left-over chicken or turkey - in other words, almost > anything. I have also seen them eating snails, and yes, the do like the > plants. The only plants I have in there are anacharis and hornwort, some > frogbit and duckweed - they eat all of the them. > > My intention was to raise them to feed to the turtles, but my oh my, I cannot do > it! They are just too cute. Not sure what I will do with them. > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: haecklers <haecklers@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:29:52 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding marmokrebs > > I bet you've got babies and they're hiding somewhere. I read they don't eat > each other, especially if you are feeding them. They probably only come out at > night. Last night I found one standing on the wall of the tank, motionless. > Later it was gone and I couldn't find it. > > I found my baby marmokrebs by accident when I was vacuuming the substrate. One > was swimming in the bucket and I thankfully noticed it before I dumped it. It > was about 1/2" long and really hard to see - kind of a grey color that blended > in with the mulm. I think most are hiding in the substrate, because I've only > seen one other one, but she must have had at least 30 eggs on her. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ryf_raph" <aaron102272@> wrote: > > > > These are new to me. > > > > I have 4 in 3 tanks, 2 together and 2 separate. > > > > 1 had dark colored eggs, but they are all gone now with no signs of hatching. > > > > Will they eat there own eggs? > > > > I feed them 3 different kinds of Algae Wafers and Carnivore Pellets. > > > > What else wood be good food for them? > > > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > You have marmokrebs too? Where do you keep them? Mine's eggs just hatched > >and we're finding the babies on the walls of the tank sometimes now. I have > >some really nice planted tanks and those are the only ones that don't contain > >fish that would eat the little crayfish. I thought it would be fun to put in a > >few small marmokrebs when they get too big for the betta to eat but worried > >they'd mow down all the plants. > > > > > > What do you feed yours? I put a couple of guppies in with mine and the > >marmokrebs seem to get along fine just eating food the guppies miss and the > >algae that grows. They seem impossibly low-maintenance so I worry I'm > >neglecting them. Our other crayfish eats the elodea plants in his tank and > >snails and seems fine just on those two things. Both tanks also have duckweed > >and I've got no way of knowing if they climb the filter and eat that as well. > > > > > > These seem to me like perfect "biosphere" type creatures if that's all they > >need! > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I find that my marbled crawfish are not too aggressive toward fish but they > >do eat snails. The baby mystery snails would be a favorite for them. They do not > >bother the plants too much except for Java moss which they love.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49773	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs

I have 4 corys and a lot of snail eggs and the shrimp count seems to be growing slowly. I have not yet observed them eating either. My tetras are spawning regularly, only the "Black Neons" have ever hatched and even then rarely at that. I have a can of NutriDiet Cyprinus carpio eggs, the fish do not seem to be interested in those, but they will chase the females around as if waiting for them to scatter eggs, do not know if that is part of the mating process or if they are just hungry. If you have another tank, it would be worth trying to see if the corys eggs hatched without any snails. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > One thing I forgot to add - my 3 albino cory cats continuously browse the plants for what I believe to be snail eggs. There are no shrimp in that tank, and I do not know if the cory's would eat shrimp, but they seem to help with the snail population. > > > Now for my question: is it possible to have fish eggs hatch in a tank with snails? The above mentioned cory cats recently began laying eggs - twice so far - and each time, snails ate them. This is a moderately planted tank, and most of the eggs that were visible were out of the anglefishes reach, but those darned snails got them. > > Is the only way to save the eggs to move the corys to a snail-free tank? > > ~ Laurie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49774	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: orange dwarf cray

Another must have" to add to my Christmas Wish List, is there such thing as too old to sit on Santa's lap? http://www.planetinverts.com/Cambarellus%20patzcuarensis.html --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > I got mine on aquabid. > > I've seen another kind on aquabid - a dwarf crayfish that only grows to the size of a small shrimp. They're bright orange and very cool looking, but cost around $95 each! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > I have some regular crayfish in the turtle tank. I love them and would love to > > have a few marmokrebs. Where can I find them? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49775	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1043672893/pic/list I've uploaded pictures of a snail laying eggs, I took video too, but it is very similar to just staring at the still photos, plus it seems Yahoo has not figured out a way to upload videos directly to the group

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49776	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: ID Requests

Please Help Identify these fish, thanks http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/944856827/pic/list it appears to be some sort of catfish, about 2 inches long and maybe 1/2 inch wide, it has been hiding in a cave ever since I took these photos, now i only see its wiskers when I place food at the cave entrance

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49777	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ID Requests

Bumblebee catfish it looks like to me. Jennifer ________________________________ From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 11:08:32 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] ID Requests Please Help Identify these fish, thanks http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/944856827/pic/list it appears to be some sort of catfish, about 2 inches long and maybe 1/2 inch wide, it has been hiding in a cave ever since I took these photos, now i only see its wiskers when I place food at the cave entrance [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49778	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/19/2010
Subject: Re: ID Requests

Thanks Jennifer, Bumblebee catfish it is. There is another fish in the bag with it, I just uploaded the pic "DSCI4906_edited" that needs an ID --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Bumblebee catfish it looks like to me. > Jennifer > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 11:08:32 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] ID Requests > > > Please Help Identify these fish, thanks > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/944856827/pic/list > > it appears to be some sort of catfish, about 2 inches long and maybe 1/2 inch > wide, it has been hiding in a cave ever since I took these photos, now i only > see its wiskers when I place food at the cave entrance > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49779	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish

Tried that…the wife, who does the feeding, has to do it her way…so the over feeding will continue… Luckily I am over filtering, plus I have a pothos jungle in the wells of my hob filters, so the water stays pretty clean. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Alaimo Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 17:30 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food supports a larger snail population. After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is healthier. ~ Laurie ________________________________ From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot shrimp that would likely get eaten too. Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > natural population control. ;-) > > > > Eric > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > To: arberglund@... > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > Minerals? > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > I will be > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > themselves. > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > Thanks again, > Aaron > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > package calls for). > > Amber > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > Hi Amber, > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > What do you feed them? > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > got > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > got a Group for you! > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > Fish Group. > > stop by and see ~ > membership is > Free! > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@... > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > frame though). > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > recently. > > Amber > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > it takes about sixty days > i don't know about the females you should try > to have a male just in case but i believe that > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > of a millimeter > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > To: > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@... <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > Sent: > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > Subject: > breeding mystery snails > > Hi Elijah, > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > San Jose. > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > they hatch? > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > males? > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > wrote: > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > nitrites > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > a little feisty > > > thanks > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49780	From: john Lewis	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ID Requests

Hello:    I'm sure the answer is already given but that looks like a Bumblebee cat to me.  These guys are very secretive and even after long periods of residence they still are rarely seen in a tank.  It's just neat to know they are there and growing as each time they are seen they usually look larger and fatter.  I like them a lot.  They are really neat little catfish.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 12:08:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] ID Requests   Please Help Identify these fish, thanks http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/944856827/pic/list it appears to be some sort of catfish, about 2 inches long and maybe 1/2 inch wide, it has been hiding in a cave ever since I took these photos, now i only see its wiskers when I place food at the cave entrance [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49781	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal

For me they are not really pests…I like the snails…just don’t need the hundreds that I have…I was just wondering if there are any fish that might eat them so I can keep them under control a bit…they need some predators. :-D From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aquatic Life Group Owner Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 20:34 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pest snail removal I feed the fish in the 55gal tank sparingly 3 or 4 times each week. They get Live food too, some of which survive to be eaten another day. The pest snails (pond & ramshorn) seem to just eat the plants all the time. It puts unsightly holes all over the plants, then the plants "bleed" oxygen bubbles. Plus they lay eggs all over everything. I also have Olive & Zebra Nerite Snails that I like because they do not appear to be eating the plants and their eggs supposedly only hatch in salt or brackish water (unfortunately, as I would like to encourage them to breed as they are rather expensive and the "Zebra" pattern is nice). I also have a lot of MTS that burrow in the substrate. I like them too, I understand they are Live Bearers - hence no unsightly eggs. I just want to eliminate the pest like Pond and Ramshorn without killing the Apple/Mytery, MTS & Nerite Snails or any Shrimp/Crawfish. So I get that copper is out. If I were to remove all the plants (temporarily to treat them) - What could I dip them in to kill the eggs? thanks, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food supports a larger snail population. > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is healthier. > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > To: arberglund@ > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > Minerals? > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > I will be > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > > themselves. > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > Thanks again, > > Aaron > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@ > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@ <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > package calls for). > > > > Amber > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Aaron > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > got > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > got a Group for you! > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > Fish Group. > > > > stop by and see ~ > > membership is > > Free! > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@ > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > frame though). > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > recently. > > > > Amber > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > it takes about sixty days > > i don't know about the females you should try > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > of a millimeter > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > To: > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@ <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > Sent: > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > Subject: > > breeding mystery snails > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > San Jose. > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > they hatch? > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > males? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Aaron > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > nitrites > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > a little feisty > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > page. > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49782	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs

My cory's have managed to have a few fry survive through all my mystery snails, so yes it's possible, but i have heavily planted tanks. Amber On 12/19/2010 2:42 PM, Laurie Alaimo wrote: > > One thing I forgot to add - my 3 albino cory cats continuously browse > the plants > for what I believe to be snail eggs. There are no shrimp in that tank, > and I do > not know if the cory's would eat shrimp, but they seem to help with > the snail > population. > > Now for my question: is it possible to have fish eggs hatch in a tank > with > snails? The above mentioned cory cats recently began laying eggs - > twice so far > - and each time, snails ate them. This is a moderately planted tank, > and most > of the eggs that were visible were out of the anglefishes reach, but > those > darned snails got them. > > Is the only way to save the eggs to move the corys to a snail-free tank? > > ~ Laurie > > ________________________________ > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@... > <mailto:environmom95112%40yahoo.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:30:17 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most > repeated was > that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food > supports > a larger snail population. > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding > less and > > see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is > healthier. > > ~ Laurie > > ________________________________ > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have > a lot > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still > way too > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I > don't > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > To: arberglund@... > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > Minerals? > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > I will be > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom > Eclipse 12 to > > themselves. > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating > plants, > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also > treated > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > Thanks again, > > Aaron > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > package calls for). > > > > Amber > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Aaron > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > got > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > got a Group for you! > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > Fish Group. > > > > stop by and see ~ > > membership is > > Free! > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@... > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > frame though). > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > recently. > > > > Amber > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > it takes about sixty days > > i don't know about the females you should try > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > of a millimeter > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > To: > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@... <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > Sent: > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > Subject: > > breeding mystery snails > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > San Jose. > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > they hatch? > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > males? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Aaron > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > nitrites > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > a little feisty > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49783	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal

You can get yoyo loaches, or a similar type of loach. Basically anything with a long slender body and pointy snout. Try to get the ones that don't get more than 5-6 inches long at most, as they will outgrow most tanks pretty fast. I have 4 loaches in my 125 gallon tank (for the life of me I can't think of their names, it'll come to me later I'm sure ;) LOL). I love how active they are, and want to get more kinds of loaches that eat snails. I'd like to get some yoyo loaches for sure. They don't seem to eat my adult MTS, but I've seen them occasionally pick at a baby one. They prefer the ramshorn snails. Amber On 12/19/2010 5:34 PM, Aquatic Life Group Owner wrote: > > I feed the fish in the 55gal tank sparingly 3 or 4 times each week. > They get Live food too, some of which survive to be eaten another day. > > The pest snails (pond & ramshorn) seem to just eat the plants all the > time. It puts unsightly holes all over the plants, then the plants > "bleed" oxygen bubbles. Plus they lay eggs all over everything. > > I also have Olive & Zebra Nerite Snails that I like because they do > not appear to be eating the plants and their eggs supposedly only > hatch in salt or brackish water (unfortunately, as I would like to > encourage them to breed as they are rather expensive and the "Zebra" > pattern is nice). > > I also have a lot of MTS that burrow in the substrate. I like them > too, I understand they are Live Bearers - hence no unsightly eggs. > > I just want to eliminate the pest like Pond and Ramshorn without > killing the Apple/Mytery, MTS & Nerite Snails or any Shrimp/Crawfish. > So I get that copper is out. > > If I were to remove all the plants (temporarily to treat them) - > > What could I dip them in to kill the eggs? > > thanks, > Aaron > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Laurie Alaimo > <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most > repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All > the extra food supports a larger snail population. > > > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try > feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is > that my water is healthier. > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I > have a lot > > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are > still way too > > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? > I don't > > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of > some > > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > > To: arberglund@ > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > > Minerals? > > > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > > I will be > > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom > Eclipse 12 to > > > themselves. > > > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating > plants, > > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it > would > > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also > treated > > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > > Thanks again, > > > Aaron > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@ > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@ <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > > package calls for). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > got > > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > > got a Group for you! > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > > Fish Group. > > > > > > stop by and see ~ > > > membership is > > > Free! > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@ > > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > > frame though). > > > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > > recently. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > > it takes about sixty days > > > i don't know about the females you should try > > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > > of a millimeter > > > > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > To: > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@ <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > Sent: > > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > > > Subject: > > > breeding mystery snails > > > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > > San Jose. > > > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > > they hatch? > > > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > > males? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > > nitrites > > > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > > a little feisty > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the home > > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49784	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal

It would help a lot if we knew what fish are currently in your tank and how big your tank is? There are a number of snail predators, but they don't mix well with all other species and some have more space requirements than others. Most botia loaches are good at helping with rams horn snail control, but keep in mind that if there are other species of snails in the tank, they also may become food for a predator that feeds on snails. Some fish are not as fussy about what species of snails they are feasting on. In regards to the comments about assassin snails helping with population control... I have 5 assassin snails I added to a 10 gallon tank that was full of rams horn and MTS snails, and now 2 months later and I can't see any difference in the rams horn or MTS snail population. While I have witnessed the assassins feeding on the others, the rate at which they do so is not as fast as the reproduction of an already large population of the other species of snails in the tank. The assassins are cool snails, but I would not rely on them for population control unless you add A LOT of the assassins. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > For me they are not really pests…I like the snails…just don’t need the hundreds that I have…I was just wondering if there are any fish that might eat them so I can keep them under control a bit…they need some predators. :-D > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aquatic Life Group Owner > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 20:34 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pest snail removal > > > > > > I feed the fish in the 55gal tank sparingly 3 or 4 times each week. They get Live food too, some of which survive to be eaten another day. > > The pest snails (pond & ramshorn) seem to just eat the plants all the time. It puts unsightly holes all over the plants, then the plants "bleed" oxygen bubbles. Plus they lay eggs all over everything. > > I also have Olive & Zebra Nerite Snails that I like because they do not appear to be eating the plants and their eggs supposedly only hatch in salt or brackish water (unfortunately, as I would like to encourage them to breed as they are rather expensive and the "Zebra" pattern is nice). > > I also have a lot of MTS that burrow in the substrate. I like them too, I understand they are Live Bearers - hence no unsightly eggs. > > I just want to eliminate the pest like Pond and Ramshorn without killing the Apple/Mytery, MTS & Nerite Snails or any Shrimp/Crawfish. So I get that copper is out. > > If I were to remove all the plants (temporarily to treat them) - > > What could I dip them in to kill the eggs? > > thanks, > Aaron > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food supports a larger snail population. > > > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is healthier. > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot > > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too > > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > > To: arberglund@ > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > > Minerals? > > > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > > I will be > > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > > > themselves. > > > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > > Thanks again, > > > Aaron > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@ > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@ <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > > package calls for). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > got > > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > > got a Group for you! > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > > Fish Group. > > > > > > stop by and see ~ > > > membership is > > > Free! > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@ > > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > > frame though). > > > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > > recently. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > > it takes about sixty days > > > i don't know about the females you should try > > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > > of a millimeter > > > > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > To: > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@ <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > Sent: > > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > > > Subject: > > > breeding mystery snails > > > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > > San Jose. > > > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > > they hatch? > > > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > > males? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > > nitrites > > > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > > a little feisty > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49785	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs

I agree, it is possible, but it will depend on how large the tank is, how well planted, but also how many snails are present. When my angels lay eggs they often lose entire spawns to the rams horn and MTS snails within 24 hrs. The only thing that tends to help is for me to manually remove any snails I see on a daily basis to keep the population of the snails under control. For fish that scatter eggs on the substrate, such as corys, this can prove much more difficult, especially if there are MTS in the tank, as they tend to spend most of their time in/on the substrate. With plants that serve as ground cover, such as java moss... this will increase the difficulty in saving the eggs from the snails. If you desire cory fry it would be a better idea to move the spawning corys to a tank without snails. The success rate will be much higher with a lot less work on your part. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > My cory's have managed to have a few fry survive through all my mystery > snails, so yes it's possible, but i have heavily planted tanks. > > Amber > > On 12/19/2010 2:42 PM, Laurie Alaimo wrote: > > > > One thing I forgot to add - my 3 albino cory cats continuously browse > > the plants > > for what I believe to be snail eggs. There are no shrimp in that tank, > > and I do > > not know if the cory's would eat shrimp, but they seem to help with > > the snail > > population. > > > > Now for my question: is it possible to have fish eggs hatch in a tank > > with > > snails? The above mentioned cory cats recently began laying eggs - > > twice so far > > - and each time, snails ate them. This is a moderately planted tank, > > and most > > of the eggs that were visible were out of the anglefishes reach, but > > those > > darned snails got them. > > > > Is the only way to save the eggs to move the corys to a snail-free tank? > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@... > > <mailto:environmom95112%40yahoo.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:30:17 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most > > repeated was > > that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food > > supports > > a larger snail population. > > > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding > > less and > > > > see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is > > healthier. > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > ________________________________ > > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have > > a lot > > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still > > way too > > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I > > don't > > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > > To: arberglund@ > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > > Minerals? > > > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > > I will be > > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom > > Eclipse 12 to > > > themselves. > > > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating > > plants, > > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also > > treated > > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > > Thanks again, > > > Aaron > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@ > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@ <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > > package calls for). > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > got > > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > > got a Group for you! > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > > Fish Group. > > > > > > stop by and see ~ > > > membership is > > > Free! > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@ > > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > > frame though). > > > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > > recently. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > > it takes about sixty days > > > i don't know about the females you should try > > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > > of a millimeter > > > > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > To: > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@ <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > Sent: > > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > > > Subject: > > > breeding mystery snails > > > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > > San Jose. > > > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > > they hatch? > > > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > > males? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > > nitrites > > > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > > a little feisty > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home > > page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49786	From: haecklers	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal

I read that potassium permanganate will kill snails at a lower dose than it kills fish and doesn't harm plants. You'd need to look it up to find the right dose. I found instructions for breeding the nerites - you get something they've laid eggs on and put it in brackish/salt water for a month for them to hatch. Once they're growing well you very gradually change the water over to freshwater. We're trying it with some in our brine shrimp bowl. But evidently you need a male and a female for fertile eggs, if you only have females they'll still lay eggs but they won't hatch. Someone told me that. BTW, this is a great resource about snails: http://www.fishpondinfo.com/snail.htm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Aquatic Life Group Owner" <aquaticlifegroup@...> wrote: > > I feed the fish in the 55gal tank sparingly 3 or 4 times each week. They get Live food too, some of which survive to be eaten another day. > > The pest snails (pond & ramshorn) seem to just eat the plants all the time. It puts unsightly holes all over the plants, then the plants "bleed" oxygen bubbles. Plus they lay eggs all over everything. > > I also have Olive & Zebra Nerite Snails that I like because they do not appear to be eating the plants and their eggs supposedly only hatch in salt or brackish water (unfortunately, as I would like to encourage them to breed as they are rather expensive and the "Zebra" pattern is nice). > > I also have a lot of MTS that burrow in the substrate. I like them too, I understand they are Live Bearers - hence no unsightly eggs. > > I just want to eliminate the pest like Pond and Ramshorn without killing the Apple/Mytery, MTS & Nerite Snails or any Shrimp/Crawfish. So I get that copper is out. > > If I were to remove all the plants (temporarily to treat them) - > > What could I dip them in to kill the eggs? > > > thanks, > Aaron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49787	From: haecklers	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: blue marmokrebs

The marmokreb I bought was blue. The guy I got it from said he kept it with white substrate and very low light. She stayed blue for months, through several moults, but now she's almost regular color. I have the white substrate, but am using lights to grow plants for them to eat. I heard you can also get them to turn more red by changing the substrate color - they try to match it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "ryf_raph" <aaron102272@...> wrote: > > What would cause them to turn blue? > > Thanks, > Aaron

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49788	From: William M	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal

Asassin snails will eat the same foods as the regualr snails do but if you cut down on the feedings, the assassin snails will eat the regular snails. They do not reproduce very fast, about three eggs a month and you need both males and females to have babies. I had put them in a ten gallon tank that was heavily "infested" with rams horn and MTS snails. I put 6 in and within a month I started to have to import snails from other tanks to feed these assassin snails. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > It would help a lot if we knew what fish are currently in your tank and how big your tank is? There are a number of snail predators, but they don't mix well with all other species and some have more space requirements than others. Most botia loaches are good at helping with rams horn snail control, but keep in mind that if there are other species of snails in the tank, they also may become food for a predator that feeds on snails. Some fish are not as fussy about what species of snails they are feasting on. > > In regards to the comments about assassin snails helping with population control... I have 5 assassin snails I added to a 10 gallon tank that was full of rams horn and MTS snails, and now 2 months later and I can't see any difference in the rams horn or MTS snail population. While I have witnessed the assassins feeding on the others, the rate at which they do so is not as fast as the reproduction of an already large population of the other species of snails in the tank. The assassins are cool snails, but I would not rely on them for population control unless you add A LOT of the assassins. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > For me they are not really pests…I like the snails…just don’t need the hundreds that I have…I was just wondering if there are any fish that might eat them so I can keep them under control a bit…they need some predators. :-D > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aquatic Life Group Owner > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 20:34 > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pest snail removal > > > > > > > > > > > > I feed the fish in the 55gal tank sparingly 3 or 4 times each week. They get Live food too, some of which survive to be eaten another day. > > > > The pest snails (pond & ramshorn) seem to just eat the plants all the time. It puts unsightly holes all over the plants, then the plants "bleed" oxygen bubbles. Plus they lay eggs all over everything. > > > > I also have Olive & Zebra Nerite Snails that I like because they do not appear to be eating the plants and their eggs supposedly only hatch in salt or brackish water (unfortunately, as I would like to encourage them to breed as they are rather expensive and the "Zebra" pattern is nice). > > > > I also have a lot of MTS that burrow in the substrate. I like them too, I understand they are Live Bearers - hence no unsightly eggs. > > > > I just want to eliminate the pest like Pond and Ramshorn without killing the Apple/Mytery, MTS & Nerite Snails or any Shrimp/Crawfish. So I get that copper is out. > > > > If I were to remove all the plants (temporarily to treat them) - > > > > What could I dip them in to kill the eggs? > > > > thanks, > > Aaron > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food supports a larger snail population. > > > > > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is healthier. > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > > > > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot > > > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > > > > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > > > > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too > > > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > > > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > > > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > > > To: arberglund@ > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > > > Minerals? > > > > > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > > > I will be > > > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > > > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > > > > themselves. > > > > > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > > > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > > > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > > > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@ > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@ <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > > > package calls for). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > > > got > > > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > > > got a Group for you! > > > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > > > Fish Group. > > > > > > > > stop by and see ~ > > > > membership is > > > > Free! > > > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@ > > > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > > > frame though). > > > > > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > > > recently. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > > > it takes about sixty days > > > > i don't know about the females you should try > > > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > > > of a millimeter > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@ <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > > > San Jose. > > > > > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > > > they hatch? > > > > > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > > > males? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > > > nitrites > > > > > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > > > a little feisty > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49789	From: Jennifer Pare	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ID Requests

I can't see very well but it looks like it might be a bleeding heart tetra. ________________________________ From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 11:28:06 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ID Requests Thanks Jennifer, Bumblebee catfish it is. There is another fish in the bag with it, I just uploaded the pic "DSCI4906_edited" that needs an ID --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Pare <blazecrazerat@...> wrote: > > Bumblebee catfish it looks like to me. > Jennifer > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 11:08:32 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] ID Requests > > > Please Help Identify these fish, thanks > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/944856827/pic/list > > it appears to be some sort of catfish, about 2 inches long and maybe 1/2 inch > wide, it has been hiding in a cave ever since I took these photos, now i only > see its wiskers when I place food at the cave entrance > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49790	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal

The American wild Darters all love snails and can eliminate them form any size tank in weeks. So you could go collecting and enjoy some native fishes. Flubendazole kills snails, even the MTS snails with their tight trap door.You know the ones which get into the filtration apparatus and stop up the impellers and mechanical parts - hat it when that happens! One removes the snails they want to keep to another tank and then doses with Flubendazole and after you remove the dead shells, change out the water and put the desired snails back in the tank. Flubendazole doesn't affect fish or plants. It adds no color to the plastic parts and is just a really great compound. It might do the fish good eliminating any internal parasites in the process. Charles H -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49791	From: Bren Linny	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: Help xtra pregnant guppy

Thank you for your advice. I was in bed when I read your reply and this morning there are some fry! I'm so relieved she has started. I was comforted to know you have a smaller fish that can hold sixty, wow! I did take a real good look at her yesterday and she seemed squared off and the “birth canal“ looked kind of big. She is not like my other guppies. They would stop eating and hover under some plants when they were ready for birth. This one is swimming all over nibbling at everything. I might name her porky or something, lol. I hope she goes back to normal when she is done. If not, I will feed her the epsom salts recipe you gave me and see if she has worms. Thanks again for your speedy reply. I love my little aquapets and was truely worried. Thanks,Bren

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49792	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: ramshorn snail eating fish, AND snails eating fish eggs

My cory's stick their eggs to the sides of the tank, and rarely plants. I think the only reason why my fry have survived (and that's not many, only 3-5 fry seem to survive out of all the eggs they lay), is because it's a very densely planted tank (55 gallon). I have lots of mystery snails and a breeding pair of pleco's in the tank as well, and both enjoy eating the eggs that the cory's lay. Amber On 12/20/2010 2:56 AM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > I agree, it is possible, but it will depend on how large the tank is, > how well planted, but also how many snails are present. > > When my angels lay eggs they often lose entire spawns to the rams horn > and MTS snails within 24 hrs. The only thing that tends to help is for > me to manually remove any snails I see on a daily basis to keep the > population of the snails under control. For fish that scatter eggs on > the substrate, such as corys, this can prove much more difficult, > especially if there are MTS in the tank, as they tend to spend most of > their time in/on the substrate. With plants that serve as ground > cover, such as java moss... this will increase the difficulty in > saving the eggs from the snails. > > If you desire cory fry it would be a better idea to move the spawning > corys to a tank without snails. The success rate will be much higher > with a lot less work on your part. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > My cory's have managed to have a few fry survive through all my mystery > > snails, so yes it's possible, but i have heavily planted tanks. > > > > Amber > > > > On 12/19/2010 2:42 PM, Laurie Alaimo wrote: > > > > > > One thing I forgot to add - my 3 albino cory cats continuously browse > > > the plants > > > for what I believe to be snail eggs. There are no shrimp in that > tank, > > > and I do > > > not know if the cory's would eat shrimp, but they seem to help with > > > the snail > > > population. > > > > > > Now for my question: is it possible to have fish eggs hatch in a tank > > > with > > > snails? The above mentioned cory cats recently began laying eggs - > > > twice so far > > > - and each time, snails ate them. This is a moderately planted tank, > > > and most > > > of the eggs that were visible were out of the anglefishes reach, but > > > those > > > darned snails got them. > > > > > > Is the only way to save the eggs to move the corys to a snail-free > tank? > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@... > > > <mailto:environmom95112%40yahoo.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:30:17 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > > > > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most > > > repeated was > > > that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food > > > supports > > > a larger snail population. > > > > > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try > feeding > > > less and > > > > > > see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is > > > healthier. > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@... <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com>> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > > > > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I > have > > > a lot > > > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > > > > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > > > > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still > > > way too > > > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes > ramshorns? I > > > don't > > > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in > need of some > > > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > > > To: arberglund@ > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > > > Minerals? > > > > > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > > > I will be > > > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 > gallon > > > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom > > > Eclipse 12 to > > > > themselves. > > > > > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating > > > plants, > > > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and > it would > > > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also > > > treated > > > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@ > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@ <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > > > package calls for). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > > > got > > > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > > > got a Group for you! > > > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > > > Fish Group. > > > > > > > > stop by and see ~ > > > > membership is > > > > Free! > > > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@ > > > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > > > frame though). > > > > > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > > > recently. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > > > it takes about sixty days > > > > i don't know about the females you should try > > > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > > > of a millimeter > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@ <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > > > San Jose. > > > > > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > > > they hatch? > > > > > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > > > males? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > > > nitrites > > > > > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > > > a little feisty > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT LINE -> > > > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > > > you can > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > > home > > > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > > > you can > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > > home > > > page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49793	From: haecklers	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: Help xtra pregnant guppy

You're welcome and I'm glad she had her babies. They say they stop eating but I've seen some pop out a fry while they are chewing, so I guess not all guppies got that message! Here's another thing to watch for - the males are especially attracted to the females right around the time they give birth - the gals can store sperm and re-fertilize themselves, but just after they've given birth there's a window of opportunity for the males to get their sperm in the prime location to be used next or something like that. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bren Linny <safirezprincess@...> wrote: > > Thank you for your advice. I was in bed when I read your reply and this morning there are some fry! I'm so relieved she has started. I was comforted to know you have a smaller fish that can hold sixty, wow! I did take a real good look at her yesterday and she seemed squared off and the “birth canal“ looked kind of big. She is not like my other guppies. They would stop eating and hover under some plants when they were ready for birth. This one is swimming all over nibbling at everything. I might name her porky or something, lol. I hope she goes back to normal when she is done. If not, I will feed her the epsom salts recipe you gave me and see if she has worms. Thanks again for your speedy reply. I love my little aquapets and was truely worried. Thanks,Bren >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49794	From: Bren Linny	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: Help xtra pregnant guppy

Lol, I thought the male was trying to eat her babies as they were born! I kept trying to distract him but he wouldn't leave her alone. Now I know what he was up to. I'm glad he was giving her sperm because she is blue and he is tourqoise so I will have some beautiful babies. Thanks for all your input. Bren On Mon Dec 20th, 2010 3:47 PM EST haecklers wrote: >You're welcome and I'm glad she had her babies. > >They say they stop eating but I've seen some pop out a fry while they are chewing, so I guess not all guppies got that message! > >Here's another thing to watch for - the males are especially attracted to the females right around the time they give birth - the gals can store sperm and re-fertilize themselves, but just after they've given birth there's a window of opportunity for the males to get their sperm in the prime location to be used next or something like that. > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bren Linny <safirezprincess@...> wrote: >> >> Thank you for your advice. I was in bed when I read your reply and this morning there are some fry! I'm so relieved she has started. I was comforted to know you have a smaller fish that can hold sixty, wow! I did take a real good look at her yesterday and she seemed squared off and the “birth canal“ looked kind of big. She is not like my other guppies. They would stop eating and hover under some plants when they were ready for birth. This one is swimming all over nibbling at everything. I might name her porky or something, lol. I hope she goes back to normal when she is done. If not, I will feed her the epsom salts recipe you gave me and see if she has worms. Thanks again for your speedy reply. I love my little aquapets and was truely worried. Thanks,Bren >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49795	From: teddy.tolley	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: parrotfish

My two parrotfish are trying to breed. They lay copious amounts of eggs but like I have read online, they seem to be infertile. Is there any hope for these guys? If not...what type of fish could be introduced that could successfully breed with them? any suggestions? Thanks all. teddy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49796	From: William M	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: parrotfish

If they are infertile then no fish can breed successfully with them. You need two fertile fish to have young fish unless it is the killifish that self fertilizes itself. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "teddy.tolley" <teddy.tolley@...> wrote: > > My two parrotfish are trying to breed. They lay copious amounts of eggs but like I have read online, they seem to be infertile. Is there any hope for these guys? If not...what type of fish could be introduced that could successfully breed with them? any suggestions? Thanks all. > > teddy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49797	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: parrotfish

Teddy, I need to preface this with I am against hybridizing cichlids. If you are interested in breeding cichlids there are literally hundreds of different kinds to breed in your home tank. Whatever you decide to breed try to make sure that you have a place for the offspring. A tank of a hundred plus fish with no future is kind of depressing after the initial joy wears off. Then you need to learn to cull or have someone else do that for you. The hybrids you have that are called parrot fish come from species that breed a LARGE volume of fry and you would probably become overwhelmed with a lot of fry if they did succesfully breed for you. Hybrid fry are hard to unload as well. I am fortunate to have 4 aquarium societies within driving distance that I could potentially sell or donate fry to. I recently discovered that some fry I picked up 6 weeks ago may be hybridized and after watching them grow it is tough to think about culling them but I know that it is the correct thing to do. I need to find one of my buddies with a large pike or large cichlid to take care of it as I no longer keep any fish for culling fry. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: teddy.tolley <teddy.tolley@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, Dec 20, 2010 2:19 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] parrotfish My two parrotfish are trying to breed. They lay copious amounts of eggs but like I have read online, they seem to be infertile. Is there any hope for these guys? If not...what type of fish could be introduced that could successfully breed with them? any suggestions? Thanks all. teddy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49798	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: parrotfish

Teddy, Like Mike, I am not a big fan of hybridized fish and certainly no fan of propagating them and spreading them further around. There are enough fish available out there that are not hybridized to fulfill anyone's concept of beautiful fish. First, you need to determine if you actually have a pair, and not just two females. If you have two females, they may try, but it will never work. If you do have a pair, male/female, it may take them a few spawns to get everything figured out, and eventually you will have a viable spawn. Should this happen you, need to be ready for it since there are likely to be a large number of fry, as Mike outlines in his reply. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of teddy.tolley Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 5:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] parrotfish My two parrotfish are trying to breed. They lay copious amounts of eggs but like I have read online, they seem to be infertile. Is there any hope for these guys? If not...what type of fish could be introduced that could successfully breed with them? any suggestions? Thanks all. teddy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49799	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 12/20/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal

Do they wear little ninja costumes? Heheheh I have never heard of assassin snails. Would they go after mystery snails or just the ramshorns? From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William M Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 07:58 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pest snail removal Asassin snails will eat the same foods as the regualr snails do but if you cut down on the feedings, the assassin snails will eat the regular snails. They do not reproduce very fast, about three eggs a month and you need both males and females to have babies. I had put them in a ten gallon tank that was heavily "infested" with rams horn and MTS snails. I put 6 in and within a month I started to have to import snails from other tanks to feed these assassin snails. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > It would help a lot if we knew what fish are currently in your tank and how big your tank is? There are a number of snail predators, but they don't mix well with all other species and some have more space requirements than others. Most botia loaches are good at helping with rams horn snail control, but keep in mind that if there are other species of snails in the tank, they also may become food for a predator that feeds on snails. Some fish are not as fussy about what species of snails they are feasting on. > > In regards to the comments about assassin snails helping with population control... I have 5 assassin snails I added to a 10 gallon tank that was full of rams horn and MTS snails, and now 2 months later and I can't see any difference in the rams horn or MTS snail population. While I have witnessed the assassins feeding on the others, the rate at which they do so is not as fast as the reproduction of an already large population of the other species of snails in the tank. The assassins are cool snails, but I would not rely on them for population control unless you add A LOT of the assassins. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > For me they are not really pests…I like the snails…just don’t need the hundreds that I have…I was just wondering if there are any fish that might eat them so I can keep them under control a bit…they need some predators. :-D > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Aquatic Life Group Owner > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 20:34 > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pest snail removal > > > > > > > > > > > > I feed the fish in the 55gal tank sparingly 3 or 4 times each week. They get Live food too, some of which survive to be eaten another day. > > > > The pest snails (pond & ramshorn) seem to just eat the plants all the time. It puts unsightly holes all over the plants, then the plants "bleed" oxygen bubbles. Plus they lay eggs all over everything. > > > > I also have Olive & Zebra Nerite Snails that I like because they do not appear to be eating the plants and their eggs supposedly only hatch in salt or brackish water (unfortunately, as I would like to encourage them to breed as they are rather expensive and the "Zebra" pattern is nice). > > > > I also have a lot of MTS that burrow in the substrate. I like them too, I understand they are Live Bearers - hence no unsightly eggs. > > > > I just want to eliminate the pest like Pond and Ramshorn without killing the Apple/Mytery, MTS & Nerite Snails or any Shrimp/Crawfish. So I get that copper is out. > > > > If I were to remove all the plants (temporarily to treat them) - > > > > What could I dip them in to kill the eggs? > > > > thanks, > > Aaron > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food supports a larger snail population. > > > > > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is healthier. > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > > > > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot > > > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > > > > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > > > > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too > > > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > > > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > > > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > > > To: arberglund@ > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > > > Minerals? > > > > > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > > > I will be > > > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > > > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > > > > themselves. > > > > > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > > > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > > > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > > > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@ > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@ <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > > > package calls for). > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > > > got > > > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > > > got a Group for you! > > > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > > > Fish Group. > > > > > > > > stop by and see ~ > > > > membership is > > > > Free! > > > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@ > > > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > > > frame though). > > > > > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > > > recently. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > > > it takes about sixty days > > > > i don't know about the females you should try > > > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > > > of a millimeter > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@ <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > > > San Jose. > > > > > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > > > they hatch? > > > > > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > > > males? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > > > nitrites > > > > > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > > > a little feisty > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > > page. > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49800	From: Ray	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: parrotfish

Teddy, I realize there are beginner hobbyists who enjoy keeping these hybridized Cichlids and who have not yet experienced the personal satisfaction of breeding, raising and perpetuating a true, natural Cichlid species which has evolved to this point in time over the eons, through diversities, until it has reached the state of development it is now in. While I'm not attempting to discourage you from maintaining these types of hybrid fish, even while some of our newer fish fans may view these fish as being "cute" in some sadistic way < g >, the breeding of these fish should really not be encouraged as they really serve no purpose in trying to continue these "Frankenfish" -- which I feel I have to describe them as, since they're an animal unnaturally made up from a combination of genes of various unrelated species. By "serving no purpose," I am meaning that we are not continuing a species if we were to breed them, and they are not serving the best interests of any of the individual species that go into their make-up. Just as Mike and \\Steve// have expressed, I too am not a big fan of hybrid fish, especially since there are so many naturally beautiful fish with which to choose from, just as the species they are. If we are all to keep tropical fish in captivity, as we've been doing now for about the last 120 years or so as a hobby, the least these species deserve is for us to perpetuate them as they are, if we are going to continue them by breeding them. Most often, and for the very reason that they are hybrids, they are usually infertile -- which indicates first of all that the man-made genetic make up of them is not inducive to be readily combined, as opposed to a natural species. While there are occasional instances where some fertility exists in a pair of hybrids that have bonded and spawned, and which produce viable fry, these hybrids have limited acceptance as far as buyers for them, and the majority of them are not easy to get rid of. If you were to succeed in breeding and raising them, you would very soon run out of tank space as you would not be able to find a ready market for the majority of them. After the initial "thrill" of breeding them, as they continued to grow, crowd you tanks, become stunted and ill because of excessive crowding (unless you intend to devote several 220 gallon tanks to them), they will eventually start dying off on you after your initial few sales of the more fortunate ones. I'd truly recommend your continuing to just watch these fish if that's your enjoyment, and to looking into purchasing a species of your choice which you can breed and readily market, increasing the advancement of the hobby. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "teddy.tolley" <teddy.tolley@...> wrote: > > My two parrotfish are trying to breed. They lay copious amounts of eggs but like I have read online, they seem to be infertile. Is there any hope for these guys? If not...what type of fish could be introduced that could successfully breed with them? any suggestions? Thanks all. > > teddy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49801	From: Teddy Tolley	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: parrotfish breeding

hey all, Thanks for all the responses. I didn't get the Parrot Fish with the intention of breeding them. I didn't even know they were of differing sex. lol. I also had no ide a they were hybrid fish until my wife looked them up online...she adores them and they are her fish. I just get so sad watching them guard their eggs and being such great parents when I know that the eggs will be infertile. Of course everything y'all said is correct, the abnormal shape that my wife finds so cute is said to be a hinderance to the fish...but they make her happy...and therefore I get to have a big tank. lol What I really want to breed are rams. I plan one day to set up a Ram tank, but I want to take my time and do it right. Has anyone ever had Rams? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49802	From: judith	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: My Betta is sick?

My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or get better. What do I do? Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49803	From: haecklers	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: pest snail removal

According to this article they only eat snails smaller than themselves, but will also eat fish eggs and the non-swimming fry that have just hatched. It says they can live peacefully with larger snails like nerites, so I guess full-grown ramshorns should be ok with them, but they won't be reproducing very fast with them around. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_4/clea.html (you have to scroll to near the bottom to see the bit about them eating other snails) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Roberts" <woad@...> wrote: > > Do they wear little ninja costumes? Heheheh > > > > I have never heard of assassin snails. Would they go after mystery snails or just the ramshorns? > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William M > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 07:58 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pest snail removal > > > > > > Asassin snails will eat the same foods as the regualr snails do but if you cut down on the feedings, the assassin snails will eat the regular snails. They do not reproduce very fast, about three eggs a month and you need both males and females to have babies. I had put them in a ten gallon tank that was heavily "infested" with rams horn and MTS snails. I put 6 in and within a month I started to have to import snails from other tanks to feed these assassin snails. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > It would help a lot if we knew what fish are currently in your tank and how big your tank is? There are a number of snail predators, but they don't mix well with all other species and some have more space requirements than others. Most botia loaches are good at helping with rams horn snail control, but keep in mind that if there are other species of snails in the tank, they also may become food for a predator that feeds on snails. Some fish are not as fussy about what species of snails they are feasting on. > > > > In regards to the comments about assassin snails helping with population control... I have 5 assassin snails I added to a 10 gallon tank that was full of rams horn and MTS snails, and now 2 months later and I can't see any difference in the rams horn or MTS snail population. While I have witnessed the assassins feeding on the others, the rate at which they do so is not as fast as the reproduction of an already large population of the other species of snails in the tank. The assassins are cool snails, but I would not rely on them for population control unless you add A LOT of the assassins. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > > > For me they are not really pests…I like the snails…just don’t need the hundreds that I have…I was just wondering if there are any fish that might eat them so I can keep them under control a bit…they need some predators. :-D > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Aquatic Life Group Owner > > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 20:34 > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: pest snail removal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feed the fish in the 55gal tank sparingly 3 or 4 times each week. They get Live food too, some of which survive to be eaten another day. > > > > > > The pest snails (pond & ramshorn) seem to just eat the plants all the time. It puts unsightly holes all over the plants, then the plants "bleed" oxygen bubbles. Plus they lay eggs all over everything. > > > > > > I also have Olive & Zebra Nerite Snails that I like because they do not appear to be eating the plants and their eggs supposedly only hatch in salt or brackish water (unfortunately, as I would like to encourage them to breed as they are rather expensive and the "Zebra" pattern is nice). > > > > > > I also have a lot of MTS that burrow in the substrate. I like them too, I understand they are Live Bearers - hence no unsightly eggs. > > > > > > I just want to eliminate the pest like Pond and Ramshorn without killing the Apple/Mytery, MTS & Nerite Snails or any Shrimp/Crawfish. So I get that copper is out. > > > > > > If I were to remove all the plants (temporarily to treat them) - > > > > > > What could I dip them in to kill the eggs? > > > > > > thanks, > > > Aaron > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Laurie Alaimo <environmom95112@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I asked about an over population of snails too. The response most repeated was that I was probably feeding my fish too much food. All the extra food supports a larger snail population. > > > > > > > > After heeding the advice, my snail population did go down! Try feeding less and see what happens. Another benefit of this practice is that my water is healthier. > > > > > > > > ~ Laurie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: ryf_raph <aaron102272@> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 3:07:24 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ramshorn snail eating fish > > > > > > > > I've heard that puffers are good for getting rid of snails, but I have a lot > > > > shrimp that would likely get eaten too. > > > > > > > > Are Clown or other Loaches safe with shrimp? > > > > > > > > I've been removing or crushing the snails by hand but there are still way too > > > > many of them. Cooper not an option either with the shrimp? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Eric Roberts" <woad@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Speaking of snails…anyone know of a loach that likes ramshorns? I don't > > > > > mind having them, but they are taking over a bit…I am in need of some > > > > > natural population control. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > > > > > Behalf Of Aaron Martin > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 16:43 > > > > > To: arberglund@ > > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Amber, that mesh on the intake is a great idea. > > > > > > > > > > Tuna flavored Tums, yum. Extra strength or regular? > > > > > (Why don't they make Tums in food flavors like Taco flavored Tums?) > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried cuttle-bone or Crushed Coral to add Calcium and other > > > > > Minerals? > > > > > > > > > > Does the Water need to be Hard? What is a good GH level? > > > > > > > > > > So I'm guessing kids don't ask you for Jello for dessert. > > > > > > > > > > Somebody mentioned Spinach, > > > > > is frozen ok or does it need to be fresh? How about Kale? > > > > > I will be > > > > > removing all the gravel & craw-fish and putting it into the 15 gallon > > > > > tank I cleaned out today so the Snails will have a bare bottom Eclipse 12 to > > > > > themselves. > > > > > > > > > > So do you use just plain Gelatin? > > > > > > > > > > I was hoping the snails would eat the plant trimmings and floating plants, > > > > > but I have not seen them do so yet. > > > > > > > > > > A few years ago I had an Apple snail in my 55g Planted Tank and it would > > > > > suck in the Duck weed from the surface like a vacuum, but it also treated > > > > > the entire tank like a Vegas style buffet. > > > > > Thanks again, > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a Group for you! > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > > > > > > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is Free! > > > > > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Amber Berglund <i><arberglund@ > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > To: "Aaron Martin" <aaron102272@ <mailto:aaron102272%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > Cc: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 11:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > Oh sorry forgot to say what I feed them. They get a mix of whatever > > > > > I feed the fish, and I occasionally feed tums for calcium. They > > > > > don't seem to enjoy the tums terribly, but they do eat it. Perhaps I > > > > > need a better flavor of tums ;) > > > > > > > > > > I do usually have a homemade food that I feed them, but the last > > > > > batch didn't turn out, and I had to throw it out. I'm working on > > > > > finding the right kind of gelatin this time around ;) I usually mix > > > > > vegetables and various seafood into a blender with some brewer's > > > > > yeast and garlic (makes it more attractive flavor wise to the fish). > > > > > Then I mix this with gelatin and put in the fridge to solidify (if > > > > > you try this out make sure you double the amount of gelatin than the > > > > > package calls for). > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 12/18/2010 10:09 PM, Aaron Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > What kind of substrate do you have in your snail tank? > > > > > > > > > > I have a few Snails in a Eclipse System 12, it keeps the > > > > > moisture in so the eggs on the ceiling do not dry out. One > > > > > of the clusters hatched recently, and when I vacuumed the > > > > > gravel I got a bunch of baby snails in the tube. I am > > > > > thinking that it is probably too easy too crush them on > > > > > accident when cleaning the gravel. Also there are 2 > > > > > marbled crays in there as well and they constantly > > > > > rearrange the gravel when they burrow. I was considering > > > > > removing all the gravel and putting it into a different > > > > > tank with the craw-fish. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > What do you feed them? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><((((º>·´¯`·.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> > > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've > > > > > got a Group for you! > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! > > > > > Fish Group. > > > > > > > > > > stop by and see ~ > > > > > membership is > > > > > Free! > > > > > > > > > > http://Pets.Groups.Yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > > > > > <º((((><·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.<º((((><.·´¯`·.<º((((>< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/17/10, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > To: "Elijah Salazar" <elijah258@ > > > > > <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 2010, 7:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > Females can still lay eggs if they have mated with a > > > > > male somewhat recently. They can carry the eggs and > > > > > not lay them for awhile (I'm not sure of the time > > > > > frame though). > > > > > > > > > > They look like large pieces of salt (about the size of > > > > > sea salt) when they first hatch out of the pink egg > > > > > batch. More of them will hatch if you keep the egg > > > > > bunch humid/moist, but not wet. What I will do is fold > > > > > a paper towel over the edge of the tank and let it > > > > > dangle in the water so it absorbs the water, this way > > > > > it doesn't touch the egg batch but it keeps the area > > > > > directly in front of the eggs moist and humid. I've > > > > > had over 100 babies hatch out of the eggs when I do > > > > > this. I no longer do this though as the darn things > > > > > will breed me out of house and home if I do, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Right now I have upwards of 30-40 mystery snails, > > > > > maybe more. And I have some that have just hatched > > > > > recently. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 12/17/2010 9:04 AM, Elijah Salazar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes i am the guy in San Jose > > > > > it takes about sixty days > > > > > i don't know about the females you should try > > > > > to have a male just in case but i believe that > > > > > you don't need a male they will be Born the size > > > > > of a millimeter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > > > <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife-owner%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@ <mailto:elijah258%40sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: > > > > > Thu, December 16, 2010 10:12:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > > > > breeding mystery snails > > > > > > > > > > Hi Elijah, > > > > > > > > > > I believe your the guy I bought some from in > > > > > San Jose. > > > > > > > > > > After they lay their eggs, how long before > > > > > they hatch? > > > > > > > > > > Will the Females lay eggs even if their are no > > > > > males? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > Elijah Salazar <elijah258@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi i breed mystery snails it may seem > > > > > that your nitrates or nitrites are high if > > > > > > > > > > > you could test your water for nitrates or > > > > > nitrites > > > > > > > > > > > possibly it could be the frog they can be > > > > > a little feisty > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have > > > > > been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the > > > > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> > > > > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can > > > > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home > > > > page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you > > > > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49804	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? Anything like that? I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. Amber On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > > My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > get better. What do I do? > Judy > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49805	From: haecklers	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Is he breathing hard? I lost a few to gill flukes or something. When my daughter got her free "rescue" dying betta from the pet store we dosed him with Prazi and there were flukes and they fell off and he was a new fish - it was almost instant. I had another one I lost to breathing problems and I think that may have been what it was. I don't know how they pick these things up but maybe they're always there but they live with them until something stressed them then the parasites kind of take over. If he's not eating that is a really bad sign. You could try throwing some broad-spectrum antibiotic at it, like Maracyn, to see if it helps, but sometimes drugs throw off their balance and can make things worse. I wouldn't even add salt, it stresses them. Prazi is a pretty safe drug, tho, and very low toxicity and it gets rid of most parasites, external and a lot of internal as well. Maybe he's just old, tho. They *can* live up to 5 years, but a lot of them only live 2 and if you've had him for 2 and he was 6 months old already, then that could be all it is. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "judith" <jkw1860@...> wrote: > > My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or get better. What do I do? > Judy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49806	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

>Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? >Anything like that? >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water and just plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It may be too late for the fish but it is a good time to learn about the septic tank nature of our fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and protozoa present on a large surface area in the tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in check but by themselves only water changes really make the difference. The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh and the fish can do their best. Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and find a way to change their water as much as often as you can. >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > >Amber > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: >> >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or >> get better. What do I do? >> Judy > -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49807	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of my tanks get about 30% water changes. Amber On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49808	From: Ray	Date: 12/21/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

It appears that Amber is saying essentially the same thing -- in so many words -- when we consider her entire statement (continued at the bottom of the foregoing post/reply), in which she states that 100% of the water should not be changed out if the new water's pH and temperature are different -- leaving us with the then given correct assumption that, aside from these caveats, that it's perfectly acceptable to do 100% water changes at any other time. If the source water has a different pH (by more than 0.2) or temperature (by more than a couple of degrees), complete changes of water SHOULD NOT be undertaken as it can cause undue stress on the fish. Only if the parameters match up fairly closely, should complete water changes be considered. Unless there's a change in the source water, which can happen upon occasion for a number of reasons (not the least being periods of drought or of torrential precipitation), the occurance of matching water parameters between the tank and the source will always continue when the hobbyist endeavors to employ a regimen of adequate water changing (by frequency, by volume or both) which ensures these close matches. When such a regimen is not continued, or not employed to start with, the inadequate amounts of water changing at these times will see increasing changes of the pH, and the KH -- with a build up of nitrous/nitric acid, as hydrogen ions (H+) and nitrate ions (NO3) -- as the effects of the natural process of nitrification are allowed to build up unheeded and without interference/correction. At this time, and until the parameters match up again with increased maintenance, only smaller but more frequent PWC's should be done until the correction (matching of tap and tank water parameters) can be restored. Complete water changes can then be the routine at these times then, if the hobby so prefers, which will be beneficial to the fish in ridding their environment of organic wastes and growth inhibiting hormones. As this tank water will contain very little amounts of DOC's (dissolved organic solids) at any one time, there may be too few nutrients present to support populations of nitrifying bacteria, but when rearing fish in smaller containers not having the benefit of this filtration or the physical abilities to supply it, this is the best method in ensuring the fish's best water quality. Where practical, larger applications of this maintenance method cannot be equaled, as there's nothing better for fish than constant fresh water. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49809	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I change at least 75%...why get all that apparatus out without taking full advantage. Matching parameters is essential of course, but I would match them for a 30% change as well. This is a good reason to keep fish that are happy with your unaltered water...makes water changes easier and safer. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of my tanks get about 30% water changes. Amber On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49810	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Amber, Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some people will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of water was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, they took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they kept me supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are other fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with them. I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus because I seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies offered on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of my tanks get about 30% water changes. Amber On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49811	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I keep juli’s and also calvus and cyprochromis, two other Tanganyikan cichlids that have a reputation of being sensitive to water changes. My julidochromis are marlieri from Gombe, commonly sold as transcriptus. I have never had the issue. I do have well water and no need for dechlor. That is the only thing I can think of that could be giving me a unique advantage. I have had an issue with water changes a cyp fry. Lost a batch due to a water change one time. 10% daily is a good regimen as well, it is what the hatcheries I have visited use. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Amber, Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some people will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of water was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, they took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they kept me supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are other fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with them. I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus because I seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies offered on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of my tanks get about 30% water changes. Amber On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49812	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I did not have a problem with water changes with _J. marlieri_, but did for _J. transcriptus_. The transcriptus were from an impeccable source, so I doubt if they were marlieri. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I keep juli’s and also calvus and cyprochromis, two other Tanganyikan cichlids that have a reputation of being sensitive to water changes. My julidochromis are marlieri from Gombe, commonly sold as transcriptus. I have never had the issue. I do have well water and no need for dechlor. That is the only thing I can think of that could be giving me a unique advantage. I have had an issue with water changes a cyp fry. Lost a batch due to a water change one time. 10% daily is a good regimen as well, it is what the hatcheries I have visited use. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Amber, Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some people will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of water was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, they took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they kept me supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are other fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with them. I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus because I seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies offered on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of my tanks get about 30% water changes. Amber On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49813	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Shanghai: Santa is Now Swimming With the Fishes

Another mob hit or a show? You decide. http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_china/2010-12-20/826038405562.html http://tinyurl.com/2bh7tzj \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49814	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: Fish Sensitive to Water Changes

It’s one of those situations (transcriptus ==> marlieri) where the classification was changed along the way. Just fish from the Gombe collection point I believe. On some of the cichlid discussion boards, the calvus are the most commonly discussed as sensitive to water changes. Some even use water from another tank fresh but not directly from the tap for their water changes. I have not experienced this I do at least 75% and 90% on occasion. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I did not have a problem with water changes with _J. marlieri_, but did for _J. transcriptus_. The transcriptus were from an impeccable source, so I doubt if they were marlieri. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I keep juli’s and also calvus and cyprochromis, two other Tanganyikan cichlids that have a reputation of being sensitive to water changes. My julidochromis are marlieri from Gombe, commonly sold as transcriptus. I have never had the issue. I do have well water and no need for dechlor. That is the only thing I can think of that could be giving me a unique advantage. I have had an issue with water changes a cyp fry. Lost a batch due to a water change one time. 10% daily is a good regimen as well, it is what the hatcheries I have visited use. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Amber, Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some people will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of water was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, they took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they kept me supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are other fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with them. I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus because I seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies offered on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of my tanks get about 30% water changes. Amber On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49815	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I wasn't saying not to do 100% water changes, I was saying it's dangerous to suggest someone do one if they don't know the person's water parameters closely match the tank water parameters. I'd hate to have someone lose their fish because of something I suggested they do. I keep betta's myself, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change out their whole bowl at once, it causes stress on the fish to scoop them out and move them so I would prefer just to siphon off 10-20% and refill it, it's much less stressful to the little guy, especially if they're in a small bowl/container. Amber On 12/22/2010 1:59 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. > Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some > people > will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. > > Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change > even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a > drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of > water > was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, > they > took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they > kept me > supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are > other > fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with > them. > I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus > because I > seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies > offered > on a regular basis. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? > > Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank > and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these > regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same > parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water > change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to > lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, > larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. > The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 > gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I > know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and > that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight > from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and > that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of > my tanks get about 30% water changes. > > Amber > > On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine > cone? > > >Anything like that? > > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even > betta's, > > > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > > check but by themselves only water changes really > > make the difference. > > > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > > and the fish can do their best. > > > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > > find a way to change their water as much as often > > as you can. > > > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much > than > > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > > > >Amber > > > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > > >> > > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes > occasional > > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some > anti-bacterial > > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not > worsen or > > >> get better. What do I do? > > >> Judy > > > > > -- > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49816	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I think most people with bettas tend to keep them in rather small containers without filtration, and change all of the water at once. I kept mine in a gallon and a half container, and changed it all at once. It was the only way to really get the poop out of the bottom, and that problem only got worse with gravel in the bottom. But I occasionally ran into trouble with the fish going into shock. I actually had the betta in a cup while I cleaned its container, so I carefully acclimated it to the new water. Yours, Villandra Thorsdottir Austin, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I did not have a problem with water changes with _J. marlieri_, but did for _J. transcriptus_. The transcriptus were from an impeccable source, so I doubt if they were marlieri. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I keep juli's and also calvus and cyprochromis, two other Tanganyikan cichlids that have a reputation of being sensitive to water changes. My julidochromis are marlieri from Gombe, commonly sold as transcriptus. I have never had the issue. I do have well water and no need for dechlor. That is the only thing I can think of that could be giving me a unique advantage. I have had an issue with water changes a cyp fry. Lost a batch due to a water change one time. 10% daily is a good regimen as well, it is what the hatcheries I have visited use. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Amber, Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some people will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of water was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, they took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they kept me supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are other fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with them. I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus because I seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies offered on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of my tanks get about 30% water changes. Amber On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49817	From: haecklers	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

It does depend on your water source. If it is stable, then fine but here on public water they like to "shock" the pipes by adding tons more chemicals some days than others, and sometimes get bright ideas like adding 150 ppm calcium chloride to prevent pipe erosion from all the fluroide they're adding (btw, did you know the fluoride they add is from smokestack scrubbers - it's pollution and contaminated with radon, arsenic and other lovelies!) For my betta fry I'm only using the filtered water - activated alumina and .5 micron carbon block. That seems to be keeping it stable enough for them. From the public water we get bacteria blooms if we change too much at once. I had to do 90% water changes after the Levamisole treatment (thanks Charles!) and a lot of the fish got sick from the bacteria that bloomed from all the fertilizer run-off or something in the water. The angelfish tank is still white and cloudy. Now they're saying on the news they're finding hexavalent chromium (carcinogen) in the water near here, a few years ago it was some solvent used in airline fuel (caused auto-immune disease). If you set up a Walstad tank, with clay, plants, wood, etc. and let them detox the water, one must be careful about continuing to add new toxins to the water these things have purified. After awhile they'll have become saturated and not be able to further detox all that stuff out. Just my 2 cent's. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49818	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick?

Yup. I have trouble with ph issues on the Austin city water system. They take liquid limestone, and treat it to remove the limestone and protect the pipes, and we end up with water with a ph of 10.0. I have to bubble air through it before I use it in the fish tank, which neither my housemates nor my landlord fully understand. Add that water too rapidly and I find danios dead of shock. Yours, Villandra Thorsdottir Austin, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:28 AM Subject: [Bulk] RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I keep juli's and also calvus and cyprochromis, two other Tanganyikan cichlids that have a reputation of being sensitive to water changes. My julidochromis are marlieri from Gombe, commonly sold as transcriptus. I have never had the issue. I do have well water and no need for dechlor. That is the only thing I can think of that could be giving me a unique advantage. I have had an issue with water changes a cyp fry. Lost a batch due to a water change one time. 10% daily is a good regimen as well, it is what the hatcheries I have visited use. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Amber, Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some people will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of water was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, they took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they kept me supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are other fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with them. I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus because I seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies offered on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of my tanks get about 30% water changes. Amber On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49819	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Well my betta just expired. I kept him in a 2.5 gal tank with a filter and heater to keep his water at 82. Even had a led night light. Just one tiny blue bulb. He had plants and a floating log he loved to get in. The plants are plastic cause I tend to have problems with plants. My 26 gal had plants but somehow got black hair algae. So the only real plants I have are a moss ball and a banana plant. They are the only plants that continue to grow and thrive. I would change about a gal of the betta water every 4 days. Mainly because in the winter there is a lot more evaporation from my tanks with the heater going. Maybe he was just old. I had him for a little over two years. Oct. Was two years. I vacuumed the gravel with every water change. But when he started to lay around that's when I dumped all the water and cleaned the gravel and added the salt. Just a teaspoon. I already miss the little dude. Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry� smartphone -----Original Message----- From: <tiggernut24@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 08:15:27 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I think most people with bettas tend to keep them in rather small containers without filtration, and change all of the water at once. I kept mine in a gallon and a half container, and changed it all at once. It was the only way to really get the poop out of the bottom, and that problem only got worse with gravel in the bottom. But I occasionally ran into trouble with the fish going into shock. I actually had the betta in a cup while I cleaned its container, so I carefully acclimated it to the new water. Yours, Villandra Thorsdottir Austin, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:48 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I did not have a problem with water changes with _J. marlieri_, but did for _J. transcriptus_. The transcriptus were from an impeccable source, so I doubt if they were marlieri. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I keep juli's and also calvus and cyprochromis, two other Tanganyikan cichlids that have a reputation of being sensitive to water changes. My julidochromis are marlieri from Gombe, commonly sold as transcriptus. I have never had the issue. I do have well water and no need for dechlor. That is the only thing I can think of that could be giving me a unique advantage. I have had an issue with water changes a cyp fry. Lost a batch due to a water change one time. 10% daily is a good regimen as well, it is what the hatcheries I have visited use. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Szabo Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Amber, Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some people will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of water was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, they took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they kept me supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are other fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with them. I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus because I seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies offered on a regular basis. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of my tanks get about 30% water changes. Amber On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{�> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{�> }}<{{{�> > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49820	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I have one of my betta's (giant betta) in a 10 gallon tank with a DAF (dwarf african frog), and I have a 2nd male betta (normal long finned type) in a clear gallon+ cookie jar. I still only do PWC's and don't fully drain the jar, when I remove the betta and put him in a cup to give him a bigger jar he spazzed out and was very upset, so I try not to have to remove him for water changes to minimize his stress. I use a long piece of airline tubing to clean the bottom of the jar/gravel from debris, but I keep live plants in the tank as well. I like live plants and have them in all of my tanks, even my smallest one (the jar). Amber On 12/22/2010 5:15 AM, tiggernut24@... wrote: > > I think most people with bettas tend to keep them in rather small > containers > without filtration, and change all of the water at once. I kept mine in a > gallon and a half container, and changed it all at once. It was the only > way to really get the poop out of the bottom, and that problem only got > worse with gravel in the bottom. But I occasionally ran into trouble with > the fish going into shock. I actually had the betta in a cup while I > cleaned its container, so I carefully acclimated it to the new water. > > Yours, > Villandra Thorsdottir > Austin, Texas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Szabo" <steve@... > <mailto:steve%40familyszabo.com>> > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? > > I did not have a problem with water changes with _J. marlieri_, but > did for > _J. transcriptus_. The transcriptus were from an impeccable source, so I > doubt if they were marlieri. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:29 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? > > I keep juli's and also calvus and cyprochromis, two other Tanganyikan > cichlids that have a reputation of being sensitive to water changes. My > julidochromis are marlieri from Gombe, commonly sold as transcriptus. I > have never had the issue. I do have well water and no need for dechlor. > That is the only thing I can think of that could be giving me a unique > advantage. > > I have had an issue with water changes a cyp fry. Lost a batch due to a > water change one time. > > 10% daily is a good regimen as well, it is what the hatcheries I have > visited use. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? > > Amber, > > Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. > Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some > people > will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. > > Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change > even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a > drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of > water > was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, > they > took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they > kept me > supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are > other > fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with > them. > I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus > because I > seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies > offered > on a regular basis. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? > > Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank > and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these > regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same > parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water > change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to > lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, > larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. > The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 > gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I > know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and > that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight > from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and > that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of > my tanks get about 30% water changes. > > Amber > > On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine > cone? > > >Anything like that? > > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even > betta's, > > > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > > check but by themselves only water changes really > > make the difference. > > > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > > and the fish can do their best. > > > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > > find a way to change their water as much as often > > as you can. > > > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much > than > > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > > > >Amber > > > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > > >> > > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes > occasional > > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some > anti-bacterial > > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not > worsen or > > >> get better. What do I do? > > >> Judy > > > > > -- > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49821	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I'll say it again. Read: The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. Someone said that changing out the water removes the good Bacteria and Protozoa that maintains the Nitrogen cycle. That is just somebody's wild guess. The Bacteria and Protozoa that affect the nitrogen cycle lives on the surfaces of the stuff inside the tank. What are all those Bio-balls in the filters for anyway? Why would we want huge surface areas for our drip filtration system? That's where the bugs live. Think about it Nature changes the water in rivers moment by moment but She doesn't scrub the rocks, sticks, plant roots, etc. As a glass cage goes through its life, it accumulates stuff dissolved in the water. Chemist call this total dissolved solids. Some of it is organic (non-conductive) and some of it is inorganic (conductive). As we feed the fish they excrete and eliminate what we feed them into the water. Some of that dissolves some doesn't and falls to the bottom of the cage. If there is gravel or stuff on the bottom of the cage, some of the digested food may be eaten by the Protozoa and Bacteria present in the gravel. These bugs also excrete and eliminate just like the fish do but their products are almost always soluble in the water. So the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) build up. The process is the life in the Glass Cage. If one takes out 20 or 10% of the water and replaces it then 80 - 90 % of the TDS remains behind. The build up continues and the small % of removal doesn't touch the gross amount that only a complete water change can bring about. The same thing about the next small water change, and the next, etc. The TDS grows to an equilibrium level that is way above what was there to begin with. The fish become accustom to the pollution until something dies, a plant, a fish or what ever and the scale is tipped and Ammonium and/or Nitrites skyrocket. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water and just plain pollution. Sorry about your loss. Read over the above explanation of why deep frequent water changes are really important. Figure a way you can have change water Chlorine free and about the same temperature, pH and dissolved solids ready to do 80 to 90% water changes every 7 to 10 days. The fish's health and the health of the tank will show for your efforts. Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water and just plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It may be too late for the fish but it is a good time to learn about the septic tank nature of our fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and protozoa present on a large surface area in the tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in check but by themselves only water changes really make the difference. The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh and the fish can do their best. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49822	From: jkw1860@yahoo.com	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

How do you make sure the dissolved solids are the same? I always use water treatment to remove chlorine and also it has aloe vera in it for slime coat. I always make sure the water is the same temp as my tank water. I have a thermometer I use every time I change water or add water when there is evaporation. Also the ph should be close if I get the water from the same source every time? I have test strips because someone recommended them and out of curiosity I checked my tap water and it shows a neutral ph. My water is a little hard; it is hard to tell what the parameters are, exactly, with the strips. I guess now that the little dude is gone I will scrub his little tank and just use it for a hospital tank which is why I had it to begin with. I only transferred him to it because he was wreaking havoc with my rams. He lived in the tank for about a year with another small ram. It was because of having two fish in there he got the pop eye and I realized I couldn't keep the tank clean enough with the two in there even though the "rule of thumb" about how many inches of fish to a tank was kept. If I get another betta I will keep him in a five gallon tank. Thank you all for the insights into fish keeping. I joined this group because I really don't have any friends that know a whole lot even though they keep fish. Judy Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry� smartphone -----Original Message----- From: Charles Harrison <charles@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:58:24 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I'll say it again. Read: The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. Someone said that changing out the water removes the good Bacteria and Protozoa that maintains the Nitrogen cycle. That is just somebody's wild guess. The Bacteria and Protozoa that affect the nitrogen cycle lives on the surfaces of the stuff inside the tank. What are all those Bio-balls in the filters for anyway? Why would we want huge surface areas for our drip filtration system? That's where the bugs live. Think about it Nature changes the water in rivers moment by moment but She doesn't scrub the rocks, sticks, plant roots, etc. As a glass cage goes through its life, it accumulates stuff dissolved in the water. Chemist call this total dissolved solids. Some of it is organic (non-conductive) and some of it is inorganic (conductive). As we feed the fish they excrete and eliminate what we feed them into the water. Some of that dissolves some doesn't and falls to the bottom of the cage. If there is gravel or stuff on the bottom of the cage, some of the digested food may be eaten by the Protozoa and Bacteria present in the gravel. These bugs also excrete and eliminate just like the fish do but their products are almost always soluble in the water. So the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) build up. The process is the life in the Glass Cage. If one takes out 20 or 10% of the water and replaces it then 80 - 90 % of the TDS remains behind. The build up continues and the small % of removal doesn't touch the gross amount that only a complete water change can bring about. The same thing about the next small water change, and the next, etc. The TDS grows to an equilibrium level that is way above what was there to begin with. The fish become accustom to the pollution until something dies, a plant, a fish or what ever and the scale is tipped and Ammonium and/or Nitrites skyrocket. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water and just plain pollution. Sorry about your loss. Read over the above explanation of why deep frequent water changes are really important. Figure a way you can have change water Chlorine free and about the same temperature, pH and dissolved solids ready to do 80 to 90% water changes every 7 to 10 days. The fish's health and the health of the tank will show for your efforts. Charles H }}<{{{�> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{�> }}<{{{�> Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water and just plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It may be too late for the fish but it is a good time to learn about the septic tank nature of our fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and protozoa present on a large surface area in the tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in check but by themselves only water changes really make the difference. The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh and the fish can do their best. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49823	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

>How do you make sure the dissolved solids are the same? If the water is changed often like 7 to 10 days and it comes from the source, the solids should be the same. >I always use water treatment to remove chlorine >and also it has aloe vera in it for slime coat. >I always make sure the water is the same temp as >my tank water. I have a thermometer I use every >time I change water or add water when there is >evaporation. That's good and important, probably more so than any thing else but consistency. When the water has evaporated enough that you are noticing it, it needs to be changed. Adding more water on top of evaporated water increased the TDS unnecessarily. Then when you go in for a change you are changing more than you expect. >Also the pH should be close if I get the water >from the same source every time? I have test >strips because someone recommended them and out >of curiosity I checked my tap water and it shows >a neutral ph. My water is a little hard; it is >hard to tell what the parameters are, exactly, >with the strips. Throw those strips away. The liquid test kits are the only way to be sure of your measurements. Again consistency is important. If you are on a well, then consistency is a norm. If you use water from a city water system then you are at their mercy. Usually there isn't much change, but I aerate my dechlorinated tap water to get the pH down with the CO2 in the air. I watch the pH and Chlorine. You might think about using a 5 gallon bucket to hold your change water. Keeping the temperature just right might be a problem. I have a fish room that stays the same temperature all year long along with a 55 gallon drum I fill 3 to 4 times a week to use for changing my tanks. > >I guess now that the little dude is gone I will >scrub his little tank and just use it for a >hospital tank which is why I had it to begin >with. I only transferred him to it because he >was wreaking havoc with my rams. He lived in >the tank for about a year with another small >ram. It was because of having two fish in there >he got the pop eye and I realized I couldn't >keep the tank clean enough with the two in there >even though the "rule of thumb" about how many >inches of fish to a tank was kept. > >If I get another betta I will keep him in a five gallon tank. Good idea. Charles H > >Thank you all for the insights into fish >keeping. I joined this group because I really >don't have any friends that know a whole lot >even though they keep fish. > >Judy -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49824	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Amber, I think that Charles made it very clear that the water parameters must match when doing the 100% change. When raising bettas in small containers, as most breeders do, it is imperative to do 100% water changes on a frequent basis. Your 10-20% changes may not be sufficient, not for the things we can measure for , but the compounds we do not or cannot measure. When is the last time you checked your water for DOC's (Dissolved Organic Carbon or Compounds)? \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? I wasn't saying not to do 100% water changes, I was saying it's dangerous to suggest someone do one if they don't know the person's water parameters closely match the tank water parameters. I'd hate to have someone lose their fish because of something I suggested they do. I keep betta's myself, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change out their whole bowl at once, it causes stress on the fish to scoop them out and move them so I would prefer just to siphon off 10-20% and refill it, it's much less stressful to the little guy, especially if they're in a small bowl/container. Amber On 12/22/2010 1:59 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. > Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some > people > will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. > > Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you change > even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up with a > drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of > water > was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, > they > took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they > kept me > supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are > other > fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with > them. > I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus > because I > seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies > offered > on a regular basis. > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? > > Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank > and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these > regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same > parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water > change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to > lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, > larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. > The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 > gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I > know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and > that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight > from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and > that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of > my tanks get about 30% water changes. > > Amber > > On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine > cone? > > >Anything like that? > > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even > betta's, > > > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > > check but by themselves only water changes really > > make the difference. > > > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > > and the fish can do their best. > > > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > > find a way to change their water as much as often > > as you can. > > > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much > than > > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > > > >Amber > > > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > > >> > > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes > occasional > > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some > anti-bacterial > > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not > worsen or > > >> get better. What do I do? > > >> Judy > > > > > -- > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49825	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I do not know where you are getting you information, but the fluoride you describe would not be approved for public consumption It is not the fluoride that eats the pipes, but the acidity of the water, whether a natural acidity of the water or as a result of the treatment process. The compound used is to raise the pH of the water without otherwise changing its chemistry, and also has the benefit of coating the pipes in the process. The addition of this compound is not a haphazard thing, but a calculation of a certain amount based on the raw water measurements. In a municipal system the water qualities that we measure can vary from day to day based more on the water source being used rather than the treatments made at the water treatment plant. River water is not the same as reservoir water, which is not the same as well water. Around here, the water can come from a river or a reservoir, each with its own properties. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of haecklers Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Betta is sick? It does depend on your water source. If it is stable, then fine but here on public water they like to "shock" the pipes by adding tons more chemicals some days than others, and sometimes get bright ideas like adding 150 ppm calcium chloride to prevent pipe erosion from all the fluroide they're adding (btw, did you know the fluoride they add is from smokestack scrubbers - it's pollution and contaminated with radon, arsenic and other lovelies!) For my betta fry I'm only using the filtered water - activated alumina and .5 micron carbon block. That seems to be keeping it stable enough for them. From the public water we get bacteria blooms if we change too much at once. I had to do 90% water changes after the Levamisole treatment (thanks Charles!) and a lot of the fish got sick from the bacteria that bloomed from all the fertilizer run-off or something in the water. The angelfish tank is still white and cloudy. Now they're saying on the news they're finding hexavalent chromium (carcinogen) in the water near here, a few years ago it was some solvent used in airline fuel (caused auto-immune disease). If you set up a Walstad tank, with clay, plants, wood, etc. and let them detox the water, one must be careful about continuing to add new toxins to the water these things have purified. After awhile they'll have become saturated and not be able to further detox all that stuff out. Just my 2 cent's. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine cone? > >Anything like that? > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even betta's, > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > find a way to change their water as much as often > as you can. > > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much than > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be careful > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > >Amber > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > >> > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes occasional > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and added > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some anti-bacterial > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang leaves will > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will wake up > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not worsen or > >> get better. What do I do? > >> Judy > > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49826	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I give up. AGAIN I wasn't saying NOT to do 100% water changes, you just shouldn't suggest someone do one without knowing that they CHECK their water parameters regularly and know that they very closely match what the tank water parameters are BEFORE suggesting someone do a 100% water change, it's just too dangerous to suggest without knowing anything except the fish is sick. I'll go back to being quiet and stop trying to help if someone's just going to argue and say the same thing I've already said but still suggest someone keep doing 100% water changes with no information before hand. Amber On 12/22/2010 6:37 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > Amber, > > I think that Charles made it very clear that the water parameters must > match > when doing the 100% change. When raising bettas in small containers, > as most > breeders do, it is imperative to do 100% water changes on a frequent > basis. > Your 10-20% changes may not be sufficient, not for the things we can > measure > for , but the compounds we do not or cannot measure. When is the last time > you checked your water for DOC's (Dissolved Organic Carbon or Compounds)? > > \\Steve// > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:56 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? > > I wasn't saying not to do 100% water changes, I was saying it's > dangerous to suggest someone do one if they don't know the person's > water parameters closely match the tank water parameters. I'd hate to > have someone lose their fish because of something I suggested they do. > I keep betta's myself, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change out > their whole bowl at once, it causes stress on the fish to scoop them out > and move them so I would prefer just to siphon off 10-20% and refill it, > it's much less stressful to the little guy, especially if they're in a > small bowl/container. > > Amber > > On 12/22/2010 1:59 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: > > > > Amber, > > > > Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. > > Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some > > people > > will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. > > > > Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you > change > > even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some > > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up > with a > > drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of > > water > > was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, > > they > > took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they > > kept me > > supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are > > other > > fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with > > them. > > I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus > > because I > > seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies > > offered > > on a regular basis. > > > > \\Steve// > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? > > > > Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their tank > > and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these > > regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same > > parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large water > > change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to > > lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, > > larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. > > The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 > > gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I > > know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and > > that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight > > from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and > > that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest of > > my tanks get about 30% water changes. > > > > Amber > > > > On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: > > > > > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine > > cone? > > > >Anything like that? > > > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even > > betta's, > > > > > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > > > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > > > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > > > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > > > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > > > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > > > > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > > > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > > > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > > > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > > > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > > > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > > > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > > > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > > > check but by themselves only water changes really > > > make the difference. > > > > > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > > > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > > > and the fish can do their best. > > > > > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to > > > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and > > > find a way to change their water as much as often > > > as you can. > > > > > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much > > than > > > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be > careful > > > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the > > > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at once. > > > > > > > >Amber > > > > > > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: > > > >> > > > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes > > occasional > > > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like this > > > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and > added > > > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I have > > > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I cured > > > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some > > anti-bacterial > > > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water > > > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang > leaves will > > > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will > wake up > > > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not > > worsen or > > > >> get better. What do I do? > > > >> Judy > > > > > > > -- > > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49827	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

> >It does depend on your water source. If it is stable, then fine but here on >public water they like to "shock" the pipes by adding tons more chemicals >some days than others, and sometimes get bright ideas like adding 150 ppm >calcium chloride to prevent pipe erosion from all the fluroide they're >adding (btw, did you know the fluoride they add is from smokestack scrubbers >- it's pollution and contaminated with radon, arsenic and other lovelies!) > >For my betta fry I'm only using the filtered water - activated alumina and >.5 micron carbon block. That seems to be keeping it stable enough for them. > >>From the public water we get bacteria blooms if we change too much at once. >I had to do 90% water changes after the Levamisole treatment (thanks >Charles!) and a lot of the fish got sick from the bacteria that bloomed from >all the fertilizer run-off or something in the water. The angelfish tank is >still white and cloudy. If it is white and cloudy, it's the Calcium Carbonate precipitating due the changes in water temperature and the pressure release from taking it out of the pipes. Lots of chemistry changes when we add our modifiers to the tap water. Among them is the temperature difference and the partial pressure of the various gases used to treat the incoming water. Give the tank some time to adjust. I have taken samples from dozens of tanks with this immediate cloudy water from a water change and every time I found Calcium Carbonate present in the fine particulates. Centrifuged samples don't show bacteria, just inorganic chalk. Charles H Take the rest of your argument to a court and hire an environmental chemist(s). You will lose your paints. Fluoride that the Dental Association adds doesn't react chemically with Copper or Iron pipes. Change as much water as often as you can! > > >Just my 2 cent's. -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49828	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/22/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Amber, If we could get the general aquarists to understand that their glass cages are really just septic tanks in which their fish live and they need to flush the toilet as often as they can, we wouldn't have this argument about equals. If one has a huge leak and needs to replace the fish into a tank with water like the water the fish came from, where will one find the yellow water to replace the old water with? Nature changes her water moment by moment - what do we do? We need your voice not your silence - help us all . . . Charles H >I give up. >AGAIN I wasn't saying NOT to do 100% water changes, you just shouldn't >suggest someone do one without knowing that they CHECK their water >parameters regularly and know that they very closely match what the tank >water parameters are BEFORE suggesting someone do a 100% water change, >it's just too dangerous to suggest without knowing anything except the >fish is sick. >I'll go back to being quiet and stop trying to help if someone's just >going to argue and say the same thing I've already said but still >suggest someone keep doing 100% water changes with no information before >hand. > Amber -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49829	From: Ray	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Charles, I haven't yet read of anyone stating the changing out water remove the good Bacteria (and Protozoa?) that maintains the Nitrogen Cycle -- unless I missed it. If, by chance though, you're referring to my statement when I said, concerning aquariums receiving frequent complete water changes, that since this tank's water will obviously contain perpetually very little amounts of DOS (Dissolved Organic Solids) at any one time, there may be too few nutrients (read: DOC's -- dissolved organic carbons/compounds) in the form of organic waste products present to support populations of nitrifying bacteria. In other words, with perpetually little (or none) amounts of ammonia ever being present (and then also, little to no amounts of nitrite available not having been broken down due from ammonia due to the latter compound's absence), that the circumstances of no organic waste products being available as nutrients for these Bacteria would keep these populations at a very minimum -- NOT that changing out the water would either physically remove them nor eliminate them in any other manner. The more pristine conditions though, would extremely curtail the beneficial bacteria's multiplication in a way that it would severely limit these Bacteria's populations, having been starved out of more populous numbers of them -- especially when these 100% water changes (complete removal of original water) are accompanied (of necessity) in the process of complete water removal, by the complete removal of undissolved organic waste products -- leaving a complete absence of these types of nutrients. Granted, these autotrophic aerobic nitrifying Bacteria inhabit every bit of solid surface area within the water column, and especially so within such apparati as filters where more copius amounts of oxygen-rich water continually flow by them. Still, their life requirements are such that they need at least a minimum amount of nutrients to sustain them and even more nutrients to promote their multiplication. In nature, while there is seldom a build up of nutrients in any one given quantity of river water flowing past any one given point, any nutrients passing that point are in addition to any previous ones, are infinite as a result of being constant and offer additional nutrition for the resident nitrifying bacteria as a result of the water's enduring flow -- even while this bacteria too is kept at low population since these nutrient levels are never much more than minimal. On the other hand, the enclosed aquarium having a near zero amount of organic waste nutrition for these Bacteria to subsist on as the tank experiences 100% water changes, have a finite amount of any such nutrients present if the Bacteria are fortunate (except perhaps for any small amount of organic waste being given of by fish in between the 100% water changes -- which may amount to extremely little, depending on the frequency of these water changes. Nature doesn't scrub the rocks, but nature ensures to keep these bacteria in exceedingly small numbers -- compared to such larger populations as to what's found in the home aquarium's filter when more nutrients are added to an enclosed environment daily. Nature never "overfeeds," nor does nature stock itself to the limits of it's environment. Nature never generates an abundance of any types of nutrition -- even the nutrition (as organic waste matter) required for nitrifying Bacteria, when considering there is never any occasion for a central location of any build-up. Ray --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > I'll say it again. > Read: > The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Someone said that changing out the water removes > the good Bacteria and Protozoa that maintains the > Nitrogen cycle. That is just somebody's wild > guess. The Bacteria and Protozoa that affect the > nitrogen cycle lives on the surfaces of the stuff > inside the tank. What are all those Bio-balls in > the filters for anyway? Why would we want huge > surface areas for our drip filtration system? > That's where the bugs live. Think about it Nature > changes the water in rivers moment by moment but > She doesn't scrub the rocks, sticks, plant roots, > etc. > > > As a glass cage goes through its life, it > accumulates stuff dissolved in the water. Chemist > call this total dissolved solids. Some of it is > organic (non-conductive) and some of it is > inorganic (conductive). As we feed the fish they > excrete and eliminate what we feed them into the > water. Some of that dissolves some doesn't and > falls to the bottom of the cage. If there is > gravel or stuff on the bottom of the cage, some > of the digested food may be eaten by the Protozoa > and Bacteria present in the gravel. These bugs > also excrete and eliminate just like the fish do > but their products are almost always soluble in > the water. So the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) > build up. The process is the life in the Glass > Cage. > > If one takes out 20 or 10% of the water and > replaces it then 80 - 90 % of the TDS remains > behind. The build up continues and the small % of > removal doesn't touch the gross amount that only > a complete water change can bring about. The same > thing about the next small water change, and the > next, etc. The TDS grows to an equilibrium level > that is way above what was there to begin with. > The fish become accustom to the pollution until > something dies, a plant, a fish or what ever and > the scale is tipped and Ammonium and/or Nitrites > skyrocket. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial > boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water > and just plain pollution. > > Sorry about your loss. > > Read over the above explanation of why deep > frequent water changes are really important. > Figure a way you can have change water Chlorine > free and about the same temperature, pH and > dissolved solids ready to do 80 to 90% water > changes every 7 to 10 days. The fish's health and > the health of the tank will show for your efforts. > > Charles H > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49830	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Ray, This is one of those old wife's tales that rears up every once in a while. I know that this has come up on this list previously, but I am not about to search for it--I'm running behind schedule and I have a very full day at work today--no early leaving for me. I hear it every one in a while brought up in other venues as well, particularly if there are novices about. I have no doubt that there are probably nitrifying bacteria removed with every water change, but that there are none that live strictly as free floating bacteria--they are just looking for a place to attach themselves to. Any loss of bacteria through a water change should not affect the effect of the others who are left behind on surfaces in the aquarium. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 5:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Betta is sick? Charles, I haven't yet read of anyone stating the changing out water remove the good Bacteria (and Protozoa?) that maintains the Nitrogen Cycle -- unless I missed it. If, by chance though, you're referring to my statement when I said, concerning aquariums receiving frequent complete water changes, that since this tank's water will obviously contain perpetually very little amounts of DOS (Dissolved Organic Solids) at any one time, there may be too few nutrients (read: DOC's -- dissolved organic carbons/compounds) in the form of organic waste products present to support populations of nitrifying bacteria. In other words, with perpetually little (or none) amounts of ammonia ever being present (and then also, little to no amounts of nitrite available not having been broken down due from ammonia due to the latter compound's absence), that the circumstances of no organic waste products being available as nutrients for these Bacteria would keep these populations at a very minimum -- NOT that changing out the water would either physically remove them nor eliminate them in any other manner. The more pristine conditions though, would extremely curtail the beneficial bacteria's multiplication in a way that it would severely limit these Bacteria's populations, having been starved out of more populous numbers of them -- especially when these 100% water changes (complete removal of original water) are accompanied (of necessity) in the process of complete water removal, by the complete removal of undissolved organic waste products -- leaving a complete absence of these types of nutrients. Granted, these autotrophic aerobic nitrifying Bacteria inhabit every bit of solid surface area within the water column, and especially so within such apparati as filters where more copius amounts of oxygen-rich water continually flow by them. Still, their life requirements are such that they need at least a minimum amount of nutrients to sustain them and even more nutrients to promote their multiplication. In nature, while there is seldom a build up of nutrients in any one given quantity of river water flowing past any one given point, any nutrients passing that point are in addition to any previous ones, are infinite as a result of being constant and offer additional nutrition for the resident nitrifying bacteria as a result of the water's enduring flow -- even while this bacteria too is kept at low population since these nutrient levels are never much more than minimal. On the other hand, the enclosed aquarium having a near zero amount of organic waste nutrition for these Bacteria to subsist on as the tank experiences 100% water changes, have a finite amount of any such nutrients present if the Bacteria are fortunate (except perhaps for any small amount of organic waste being given of by fish in between the 100% water changes -- which may amount to extremely little, depending on the frequency of these water changes. Nature doesn't scrub the rocks, but nature ensures to keep these bacteria in exceedingly small numbers -- compared to such larger populations as to what's found in the home aquarium's filter when more nutrients are added to an enclosed environment daily. Nature never "overfeeds," nor does nature stock itself to the limits of it's environment. Nature never generates an abundance of any types of nutrition -- even the nutrition (as organic waste matter) required for nitrifying Bacteria, when considering there is never any occasion for a central location of any build-up. Ray --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > I'll say it again. > Read: > The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Someone said that changing out the water removes > the good Bacteria and Protozoa that maintains the > Nitrogen cycle. That is just somebody's wild > guess. The Bacteria and Protozoa that affect the > nitrogen cycle lives on the surfaces of the stuff > inside the tank. What are all those Bio-balls in > the filters for anyway? Why would we want huge > surface areas for our drip filtration system? > That's where the bugs live. Think about it Nature > changes the water in rivers moment by moment but > She doesn't scrub the rocks, sticks, plant roots, > etc. > > > As a glass cage goes through its life, it > accumulates stuff dissolved in the water. Chemist > call this total dissolved solids. Some of it is > organic (non-conductive) and some of it is > inorganic (conductive). As we feed the fish they > excrete and eliminate what we feed them into the > water. Some of that dissolves some doesn't and > falls to the bottom of the cage. If there is > gravel or stuff on the bottom of the cage, some > of the digested food may be eaten by the Protozoa > and Bacteria present in the gravel. These bugs > also excrete and eliminate just like the fish do > but their products are almost always soluble in > the water. So the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) > build up. The process is the life in the Glass > Cage. > > If one takes out 20 or 10% of the water and > replaces it then 80 - 90 % of the TDS remains > behind. The build up continues and the small % of > removal doesn't touch the gross amount that only > a complete water change can bring about. The same > thing about the next small water change, and the > next, etc. The TDS grows to an equilibrium level > that is way above what was there to begin with. > The fish become accustom to the pollution until > something dies, a plant, a fish or what ever and > the scale is tipped and Ammonium and/or Nitrites > skyrocket. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial > boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water > and just plain pollution. > > Sorry about your loss. > > Read over the above explanation of why deep > frequent water changes are really important. > Figure a way you can have change water Chlorine > free and about the same temperature, pH and > dissolved solids ready to do 80 to 90% water > changes every 7 to 10 days. The fish's health and > the health of the tank will show for your efforts. > > Charles H > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49831	From: Ray	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

\\Steve//, I'm posting this with the understanding that you won't see it until you get back from work (enjoy your day). I don't know if you're replying to anything I've said -- or as a general message of what some others have said) as old wive's tales) -- which could ne connected with something I've said, but if you're responding directly to what I've written below, I'm afraid you've entirely missed my point. But I don't consider you as misreading someone's message, unless you briefed over it too fast -- or perhaps you're adding the Charles' point of some people believing such wives' tales. Anyway, as for the removal of nitrifying bacteria with water changes, may I go on record in stating that I'VE never said that, although obviously there will always be a token few Nitrosomas and Nitrobacters that are temporarily residing in the water column at any moment -- which is how they can eventually spread to all solid surfaces in the tank. If there are any incidental nitrifying bacteria in the water column at the time of the water change, and get removed as a consequence of the change, their loss is very minimal as -- as we both know -- for all intents and purposes, these bacteria mostly colonize onto the physical solids in the tank, i.e., the inside glass, the gravel, any plants and/or ornaments, the rocks and the filter media including the filter's inside surfaces and any hoses. For this reason, they will not be removed via water changes, even if those water changes are 100%. Ongoing complete water changes though, will ensure the elimination of all but a trace of the organic waste products, both from the water column and from the aquarium's bottom or substrate, rendering the aquarium relatively free of these needed nutrients that these nitrifying bacteria need to use for their life processes. Such a minimum amount of these nutrients being available for these bacteria will be counter-productive in maintaining any kind of large populations of these bacteria, certainly curtailing their multiplication since they'll be starved of their food. You're quite correct -- any loss of free-floating bacteria removed with water changes will not affect the effect of others, most of which are left behind as attached to the aquarium's innere surfaces. But, if 100% water changes are regularly done as the norm, and done with enough frequency so as to maintain the water column at all time as being free from any contaminents (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc.), which is this method's purpose, there will be too little of these organic waste nutrients ever left behind for the development of any large bacteria populations. They simply will not thrive, and at best, they may just barely survive in limited numbers. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > This is one of those old wife's tales that rears up every once in a while. I > know that this has come up on this list previously, but I am not about to > search for it--I'm running behind schedule and I have a very full day at > work today--no early leaving for me. I hear it every one in a while brought > up in other venues as well, particularly if there are novices about. > > I have no doubt that there are probably nitrifying bacteria removed with > every water change, but that there are none that live strictly as free > floating bacteria--they are just looking for a place to attach themselves > to. Any loss of bacteria through a water change should not affect the effect > of the others who are left behind on surfaces in the aquarium. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 5:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Betta is sick? > > > Charles, > > I haven't yet read of anyone stating the changing out water remove > the good Bacteria (and Protozoa?) that maintains the Nitrogen Cycle -- > unless I missed it. If, by chance though, you're referring to my statement > when I said, concerning aquariums receiving frequent complete water changes, > that since this tank's water will obviously > contain perpetually very little amounts of DOS (Dissolved Organic Solids) at > any one time, there may be too few nutrients (read: DOC's -- dissolved > organic carbons/compounds) in the form of organic waste products present to > support populations of nitrifying bacteria. In other words, with > perpetually little (or none) amounts of ammonia ever being present (and then > also, little to no amounts of nitrite available not having been broken down > due from ammonia due to the latter compound's absence), that the > circumstances of no organic waste products being available as nutrients for > these Bacteria would keep these populations at a very minimum -- NOT that > changing out the water would either physically remove them nor eliminate > them in any other manner. The more pristine conditions though, would > extremely curtail the beneficial bacteria's multiplication in a way that it > would severely limit these Bacteria's populations, having been starved out > of more populous numbers of them -- especially when these 100% water changes > (complete removal of original water) are accompanied (of necessity) in the > process of complete water removal, by the complete removal of undissolved > organic waste products -- leaving a complete absence of these types of > nutrients. > > Granted, these autotrophic aerobic nitrifying Bacteria inhabit every bit of > solid surface area within the water column, and especially so within such > apparati as filters where more copius amounts of oxygen-rich water > continually flow by them. Still, their life requirements are such that they > need at least a minimum amount of nutrients to sustain them and even more > nutrients to promote their multiplication. > > In nature, while there is seldom a build up of nutrients in any one given > quantity of river water flowing past any one given point, any nutrients > passing that point are in addition to any previous ones, are infinite as a > result of being constant and offer additional nutrition for the resident > nitrifying bacteria as a result of the water's enduring flow -- even while > this bacteria too is kept at low population since these nutrient levels are > never much more than minimal. On the other hand, the enclosed aquarium > having a near zero amount of organic waste nutrition for these Bacteria to > subsist on as the tank experiences 100% water changes, have a finite amount > of any such nutrients present if the Bacteria are fortunate (except perhaps > for any small amount of organic waste being given of by fish in between the > 100% water changes -- which may amount to extremely little, depending on the > frequency of these water changes. Nature doesn't scrub the rocks, but > nature ensures to keep these bacteria in exceedingly small numbers -- > compared to such larger populations as to what's found in the home > aquarium's filter when more nutrients are added to an enclosed environment > daily. Nature never "overfeeds," nor does nature stock itself to the limits > of it's environment. Nature never generates an abundance of any types of > nutrition -- even the nutrition (as organic waste matter) required for > nitrifying Bacteria, when considering there is never any occasion for a > central location of any build-up. > > Ray > > > > --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > > > > I'll say it again. > > Read: > > The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > > > Someone said that changing out the water removes > > the good Bacteria and Protozoa that maintains the > > Nitrogen cycle. That is just somebody's wild > > guess. The Bacteria and Protozoa that affect the > > nitrogen cycle lives on the surfaces of the stuff > > inside the tank. What are all those Bio-balls in > > the filters for anyway? Why would we want huge > > surface areas for our drip filtration system? > > That's where the bugs live. Think about it Nature > > changes the water in rivers moment by moment but > > She doesn't scrub the rocks, sticks, plant roots, > > etc. > > > > > > As a glass cage goes through its life, it > > accumulates stuff dissolved in the water. Chemist > > call this total dissolved solids. Some of it is > > organic (non-conductive) and some of it is > > inorganic (conductive). As we feed the fish they > > excrete and eliminate what we feed them into the > > water. Some of that dissolves some doesn't and > > falls to the bottom of the cage. If there is > > gravel or stuff on the bottom of the cage, some > > of the digested food may be eaten by the Protozoa > > and Bacteria present in the gravel. These bugs > > also excrete and eliminate just like the fish do > > but their products are almost always soluble in > > the water. So the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) > > build up. The process is the life in the Glass > > Cage. > > > > If one takes out 20 or 10% of the water and > > replaces it then 80 - 90 % of the TDS remains > > behind. The build up continues and the small % of > > removal doesn't touch the gross amount that only > > a complete water change can bring about. The same > > thing about the next small water change, and the > > next, etc. The TDS grows to an equilibrium level > > that is way above what was there to begin with. > > The fish become accustom to the pollution until > > something dies, a plant, a fish or what ever and > > the scale is tipped and Ammonium and/or Nitrites > > skyrocket. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial > > boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water > > and just plain pollution. > > > > Sorry about your loss. > > > > Read over the above explanation of why deep > > frequent water changes are really important. > > Figure a way you can have change water Chlorine > > free and about the same temperature, pH and > > dissolved solids ready to do 80 to 90% water > > changes every 7 to 10 days. The fish's health and > > the health of the tank will show for your efforts. > > > > Charles H > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > > check but by themselves only water changes really > > make the difference. > > > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > > and the fish can do their best. > > -- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49832	From: Ray	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Judy, I'd just like to say how sorry I am for the loss of your Betta. We get attached to our fish and the longer we have them, the greater is our pain when losing them. Perhaps a newly purchased one, at your earliest convenience, may help replace some of that loss. Bettas are known to be prone to contracting Pop-Eye, but then, many of them are kept in too-small of containers, with too-infrequent PWC's. With addressing your question pertaining to the dissolved solids -- and I'm sure you're referring to the TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) that were mentioned in the previous post to which you replied to -- you don't want to match the ones that have built up in your aquarium, hopefully with an equal amount of them in your tap water (at least, not the Dissolved Organic Solids portion of them). There will always be a certain amount of other, non-organic solids that will be present in your tap water, and subsequentaly, in your aquarium water such as the mineral content -- which you have relatively little control over -- and which, unless they're excessive, you needn't be concerned about, and these would be the various hardening and non-hardening salts (calcium carbonate, magnesium sulfate, etc. You can keep these at a minimum, as closely matching those of your tap water by not allowing too much evaporation of your tank water with additions of new water as replacement for this missing water, as this will only tend to concentrate the TDS. Your frequent, large PWC's will keep any such build up of these TDS's at a minimum, ensuring they're fairly closely matched -- tap water to tank water. As I believe has already been mentioned, get away from using test strips as they can be highly inaccurate. Get yourself a set of liquid test kits (most economically in one master test kit); Aquarium Pharmaceuticals offers a good, easily-read one. You may even find that in fact your pH may not be neutral at all (it would not surprise me), but as long as both tap & tank water match, and as long as it's not towards the extremes from neutral your fish should be fine. Just as it's hard to tell you hardness from the test strips, so is getting accurate readings of other parameters with them. Unless your water is extremely hard though, it too should be of little concern. A liquid hardness (GH) test kit will tell you more accurately, your deghrees of hardness -- although it's not a major parameter you need to know in general maintenance. You do need test kits for ammonia, nitrite and to a lessor degree, nitrate, but all three need to be kept an eye on. The 5 gallon tank you have in mind would be great for a Betta (or any other single fish of similiar size you planned to keep). While it may be even a bit larger than what is actually needed, you can never go wrong when supply more than adequate space (and water volume) for any fish. The more room you give them, the better they'll thrive and the easier it is to maintain. Just make sure to do ample PWC's next time to avoid the build-up of any impurities -- which will then stay closer to the parameters of you tap water. On the aloe vera, not only do you not need to continually add it (as fish have been building their own slime coats since they first evolved), but the addition of these unnecessary contaminents have the potential of also coating any surface on the fish -- including its gills, which is always best to avoid. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, jkw1860@... wrote: > > How do you make sure the dissolved solids are the same? I always use water treatment to remove chlorine and also it has aloe vera in it for slime coat. I always make sure the water is the same temp as my tank water. I have a thermometer I use every time I change water or add water when there is evaporation. Also the ph should be close if I get the water from the same source every time? I have test strips because someone recommended them and out of curiosity I checked my tap water and it shows a neutral ph. My water is a little hard; it is hard to tell what the parameters are, exactly, with the strips. > I guess now that the little dude is gone I will scrub his little tank and just use it for a hospital tank which is why I had it to begin with. I only transferred him to it because he was wreaking havoc with my rams. He lived in the tank for about a year with another small ram. It was because of having two fish in there he got the pop eye and I realized I couldn't keep the tank clean enough with the two in there even though the "rule of thumb" about how many inches of fish to a tank was kept. > If I get another betta I will keep him in a five gallon tank. > Thank you all for the insights into fish keeping. I joined this group because I really don't have any friends that know a whole lot even though they keep fish. > Judy > Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Harrison <charles@...> > Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 13:58:24 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? > > I'll say it again. > Read: > The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Someone said that changing out the water removes > the good Bacteria and Protozoa that maintains the > Nitrogen cycle. That is just somebody's wild > guess. The Bacteria and Protozoa that affect the > nitrogen cycle lives on the surfaces of the stuff > inside the tank. What are all those Bio-balls in > the filters for anyway? Why would we want huge > surface areas for our drip filtration system? > That's where the bugs live. Think about it Nature > changes the water in rivers moment by moment but > She doesn't scrub the rocks, sticks, plant roots, > etc. > > > As a glass cage goes through its life, it > accumulates stuff dissolved in the water. Chemist > call this total dissolved solids. Some of it is > organic (non-conductive) and some of it is > inorganic (conductive). As we feed the fish they > excrete and eliminate what we feed them into the > water. Some of that dissolves some doesn't and > falls to the bottom of the cage. If there is > gravel or stuff on the bottom of the cage, some > of the digested food may be eaten by the Protozoa > and Bacteria present in the gravel. These bugs > also excrete and eliminate just like the fish do > but their products are almost always soluble in > the water. So the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) > build up. The process is the life in the Glass > Cage. > > If one takes out 20 or 10% of the water and > replaces it then 80 - 90 % of the TDS remains > behind. The build up continues and the small % of > removal doesn't touch the gross amount that only > a complete water change can bring about. The same > thing about the next small water change, and the > next, etc. The TDS grows to an equilibrium level > that is way above what was there to begin with. > The fish become accustom to the pollution until > something dies, a plant, a fish or what ever and > the scale is tipped and Ammonium and/or Nitrites > skyrocket. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial > boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water > and just plain pollution. > > Sorry about your loss. > > Read over the above explanation of why deep > frequent water changes are really important. > Figure a way you can have change water Chlorine > free and about the same temperature, pH and > dissolved solids ready to do 80 to 90% water > changes every 7 to 10 days. The fish's health and > the health of the tank will show for your efforts. > > Charles H > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > check but by themselves only water changes really > make the difference. > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > and the fish can do their best. > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49833	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Renamed: Vacuuming

Here's a suggestion: Using a rubber band, secure a siphon (I used a length of air line hose) to something like a long chopstick and vacuum the poop off the bottom. That way, the water changes "from the bottom, up" instead of "from the top, down." I also find that gravel is difficult in a "small" desktop tank so I don't have any in my Betta tanks. Mine are also appx 1.5g each and Mom's is a 2.5g. Each also has a potted plant. I used a plastic party cup, filled it with substrate, planted an Amazon Sword in each and topped it with a handful of gravel to keep the fine stuff in place. ~Kai > Villandra wrote: > > I kept mine in a gallon and a half container, and changed it all at once. It was the only way to really get the poop out of the bottom, and that problem only got worse with gravel in the bottom. > > SNIPPED

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49834	From: tiggernut24@yahoo.com	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I found it important to match the parameters as well as possible, and acclimate the beta to the new water. If you put the beta into a smaller container while you change its water, you can easily put in a little of the new water at a time. Yours, Villandra Thorsdottir Austin, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? >I give up. > AGAIN I wasn't saying NOT to do 100% water changes, you just shouldn't > suggest someone do one without knowing that they CHECK their water > parameters regularly and know that they very closely match what the tank > water parameters are BEFORE suggesting someone do a 100% water change, > it's just too dangerous to suggest without knowing anything except the > fish is sick. > I'll go back to being quiet and stop trying to help if someone's just > going to argue and say the same thing I've already said but still > suggest someone keep doing 100% water changes with no information before > hand. > > Amber > > On 12/22/2010 6:37 PM, Steve Szabo wrote: >> >> Amber, >> >> I think that Charles made it very clear that the water parameters must >> match >> when doing the 100% change. When raising bettas in small containers, >> as most >> breeders do, it is imperative to do 100% water changes on a frequent >> basis. >> Your 10-20% changes may not be sufficient, not for the things we can >> measure >> for , but the compounds we do not or cannot measure. When is the last >> time >> you checked your water for DOC's (Dissolved Organic Carbon or Compounds)? >> >> \\Steve// >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:56 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? >> >> I wasn't saying not to do 100% water changes, I was saying it's >> dangerous to suggest someone do one if they don't know the person's >> water parameters closely match the tank water parameters. I'd hate to >> have someone lose their fish because of something I suggested they do. >> I keep betta's myself, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change out >> their whole bowl at once, it causes stress on the fish to scoop them out >> and move them so I would prefer just to siphon off 10-20% and refill it, >> it's much less stressful to the little guy, especially if they're in a >> small bowl/container. >> >> Amber >> >> On 12/22/2010 1:59 AM, Steve Szabo wrote: >> > >> > Amber, >> > >> > Changing 100% is common practice with betta breeders and some others. >> > Charles tells how it needs to be done as well. I also know that some >> > people >> > will regularly do something like 90% water changes for large cichlids. >> > >> > Then, on the other hand, there are fish that have a problem if you >> change >> > even 10% of the water on a regular basis. I had that problem with some >> > _Julidochromis transcriptus_ I kept years and years ago. I came up >> with a >> > drip system where the water was added constantly as the same amount of >> > water >> > was siphoned off. If I would so much as dare do a water change of 10%, >> > they >> > took a turn for the worse. Once I came up with the drip system, they >> > kept me >> > supplied with fry for many years. I would also suspect that there are >> > other >> > fish that need to be treated like this in order to be successful with >> > them. >> > I would suspect that this may still be the case with transcriptus >> > because I >> > seldom see them offered for sale, where as I often see others julies >> > offered >> > on a regular basis. >> > >> > \\Steve// >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On >> > Behalf Of Amber Berglund >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 2:03 AM >> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Betta is sick? >> > >> > Telling someone to do 100% water changes without knowing what their >> > tank >> > and baseline tap water parameters are or if the person tests these >> > regularly to know if they fluctuate or if their tank has the exact same >> > parameters as their tap water can be dangerous. Doing such a large >> > water >> > change without knowing if it's safe or not could cause the person to >> > lose all their fish. IF all water parameters are the same, then yes, >> > larger water changes CAN be fairly safe to do. >> > The only tank I have done a 100% water change on in my home is a 10 >> > gallon with plants and a few mystery snails in it, and only because I >> > know that my water parameters do not fluctuate throughout the year and >> > that my tank parameters are nearly identical to my tap water straight >> > from the tap. I still keep my regular water changes to 50% max, and >> > that's only on my overstocked mystery snail tank/guppy tank, the rest >> > of >> > my tanks get about 30% water changes. >> > >> > Amber >> > >> > On 12/21/2010 7:13 PM, Charles Harrison wrote: >> > > >> > > >Does your betta look any different? Bloated, fuzzy, or like a pine >> > cone? >> > > >Anything like that? >> > > >I don't recommend changing 100% of the water for any tank, even >> > betta's, >> > > >> > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of >> > > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 >> > > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - >> > > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The >> > > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same >> > > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. >> > > >> > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It >> > > points to excess nutrients in the water and just >> > > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It >> > > may be too late for the fish but it is a good >> > > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our >> > > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and >> > > protozoa present on a large surface area in the >> > > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in >> > > check but by themselves only water changes really >> > > make the difference. >> > > >> > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of >> > > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh >> > > and the fish can do their best. >> > > >> > > Seriously, Popeye is nothing but a response to >> > > pollution. Clean things up for the next fish and >> > > find a way to change their water as much as often >> > > as you can. >> > > >> > > >if the pH or temperature of the new water are different by too much >> > than >> > > >the old tank water it can cause stress and health issues. So be >> careful >> > > >how much you change. If you want to do more water changes during the >> > > >week just change less water more often, rather than 100% all at >> > > >once. >> > > > >> > > >Amber >> > > > >> > > >On 12/21/2010 10:02 AM, judith wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> My betta is just laying on the bottom of his tank and takes >> > occasional >> > > >> forrays to the top for air, but will not eat. He has been like >> > > >> this >> > > >> for a week with no changes. I tried changing all his water and >> added >> > > >> salt and tried to entice him with his bloodworms, but no go. I >> > > >> have >> > > >> had him for 2 years. He was sick a couple of months ago but I >> > > >> cured >> > > >> his pop-eye with more and bigger water changes and some >> > anti-bacterial >> > > >> food. I have continued with the more frequent and bigger water >> > > >> changes, could this be the problem? Do you think Ketapang >> leaves will >> > > >> help him? Is he depressed? I am worried every morning I will >> wake up >> > > >> and he will be dead. But he isn't and his condition does not >> > worsen or >> > > >> get better. What do I do? >> > > >> Judy >> > > > >> > > -- >> > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ >> > > Change as much water as often as you can! >> > > Charles Harrison in St Louis >> > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ >> > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49835	From: William M	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Over in Asia and other places where they have a steady supply of cheap (or free) and good water quality, , they do a complete water change daily so that they do not even use filters. In the process of having great water quality the fish do not built up a resistance to diseases and when they are bought for home aquariums, they often die of diseases that are in the aquariums that they are put in.They are able to grow them fast and in good color but when the fish are put into less than good quality water they have a lowered resistance to any diseases. I am in particular talking about discus that do not naturally have a resistance to many diseases because of the water that they live in does not harbor many disease causing bacteria or other organisms. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > \\Steve//, > > I'm posting this with the understanding that you won't see it until you get back from work (enjoy your day). I don't know if you're replying to anything I've said -- or as a general message of what some others have said) as old wive's tales) -- which could ne connected with something I've said, but if you're responding directly to what I've written below, I'm afraid you've entirely missed my point. But I don't consider you as misreading someone's message, unless you briefed over it too fast -- or perhaps you're adding the Charles' point of some people believing such wives' tales. > > Anyway, as for the removal of nitrifying bacteria with water changes, may I go on record in stating that I'VE never said that, although obviously there will always be a token few Nitrosomas and Nitrobacters that are temporarily residing in the water column at any moment -- which is how they can eventually spread to all solid surfaces in the tank. If there are any incidental nitrifying bacteria in the water column at the time of the water change, and get removed as a consequence of the change, their loss is very minimal as -- as we both know -- for all intents and purposes, these bacteria mostly colonize onto the physical solids in the tank, i.e., the inside glass, the gravel, any plants and/or ornaments, the rocks and the filter media including the filter's inside surfaces and any hoses. > > For this reason, they will not be removed via water changes, even if those water changes are 100%. Ongoing complete water changes though, will ensure the elimination of all but a trace of the organic waste products, both from the water column and from the aquarium's bottom or substrate, rendering the aquarium relatively free of these needed nutrients that these nitrifying bacteria need to use for their life processes. Such a minimum amount of these nutrients being available for these bacteria will be counter-productive in maintaining any kind of large populations of these bacteria, certainly curtailing their multiplication since they'll be starved of their food. > > You're quite correct -- any loss of free-floating bacteria removed with water changes will not affect the effect of others, most of which are left behind as attached to the aquarium's innere surfaces. But, if 100% water changes are regularly done as the norm, and done with enough frequency so as to maintain the water column at all time as being free from any contaminents (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc.), which is this method's purpose, there will be too little of these organic waste nutrients ever left behind for the development of any large bacteria populations. They simply will not thrive, and at best, they may just barely survive in limited numbers. > > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49836	From: Ray	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: Renamed: Vacuuming

Kai, There's no need to use a chopstick and a length of flexible air line hose, when hard/rigid clear plastic air line hose is available. It's slightly smaller in diameter than flexible airline and can be inserted into it -- so all's you need a a length of this at least as high as the tank, with your regular air line running from it's top to a bucket. It's MUCH MUCH easier to use in syphoning of the bottom of a small tank than it is trying to use flexible air line, and it does away with having to use a chopstick and tying flexible air line to it. It comes in either a 30" length or a 36" length, I forget which. I still have one new piece that I haven't cut yet, so I'll get a measurement on it. I use them, cut to my needed size, for keeping the airstones at the bottom of gallon brine shrimp hatching jars and just clip it to the mouth of the jar with a clothes pin. Ray > > Here's a suggestion: Using a rubber band, secure a siphon (I used a length of air line hose) to something like a long chopstick and vacuum the poop off the bottom. That way, the water changes "from the bottom, up" instead of "from the top, down." > > I also find that gravel is difficult in a "small" desktop tank so I don't have any in my Betta tanks. Mine are also appx 1.5g each and Mom's is a 2.5g. Each also has a potted plant. I used a plastic party cup, filled it with substrate, planted an Amazon Sword in each and topped it with a handful of gravel to keep the fine stuff in place. > ~Kai > > > > > Villandra wrote: > > > > I kept mine in a gallon and a half container, and changed it all at once. It was the only way to really get the poop out of the bottom, and that problem only got worse with gravel in the bottom. > > > > SNIPPED >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49837	From: haecklers	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

I've done a lot of research on fluoride (aside from fish keeping). The fluoride most often used is hydrofluorosilicic acid. It is extremely corrosive and adds greatly to the need for maintenance and number of leaks in underground supply pipes, along with equipment failure. And it is, indeed, a byproduct of several industries and they harvest it from their smokestacks. Pharmaceutical grade fluoride would be far too expensive to use in such a widespread application. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I do not know where you are getting you information, but the fluoride you > describe would not be approved for public consumption > > It is not the fluoride that eats the pipes, but the acidity of the water, > whether a natural acidity of the water or as a result of the treatment > process. The compound used is to raise the pH of the water without otherwise > changing its chemistry, and also has the benefit of coating the pipes in the > process. The addition of this compound is not a haphazard thing, but a > calculation of a certain amount based on the raw water measurements. > > In a municipal system the water qualities that we measure can vary from day > to day based more on the water source being used rather than the treatments > made at the water treatment plant. River water is not the same as reservoir > water, which is not the same as well water. Around here, the water can come > from a river or a reservoir, each with its own properties. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49838	From: haecklers	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Thanks, interesting! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > > > >It does depend on your water source. If it is stable, then fine but here on > >public water they like to "shock" the pipes by adding tons more chemicals > >some days than others, and sometimes get bright ideas like adding 150 ppm > >calcium chloride to prevent pipe erosion from all the fluroide they're > >adding (btw, did you know the fluoride they add is from smokestack scrubbers > >- it's pollution and contaminated with radon, arsenic and other lovelies!) > > > >For my betta fry I'm only using the filtered water - activated alumina and > >.5 micron carbon block. That seems to be keeping it stable enough for them. > > > >>From the public water we get bacteria blooms if we change too much at once. > >I had to do 90% water changes after the Levamisole treatment (thanks > >Charles!) and a lot of the fish got sick from the bacteria that bloomed from > >all the fertilizer run-off or something in the water. The angelfish tank is > >still white and cloudy. > > If it is white and cloudy, it's the Calcium > Carbonate precipitating due the changes in water > temperature and the pressure release from taking > it out of the pipes. Lots of chemistry changes > when we add our modifiers to the tap water. Among > them is the temperature difference and the > partial pressure of the various gases used to > treat the incoming water. > > Give the tank some time to adjust. I have taken > samples from dozens of tanks with this immediate > cloudy water from a water change and every time I > found Calcium Carbonate present in the fine > particulates. Centrifuged samples don't show > bacteria, just inorganic chalk. > > Charles H > > > > Take the rest of your argument to a court and > hire an environmental chemist(s). You will lose > your paints. Fluoride that the Dental Association > adds doesn't react chemically with Copper or Iron > pipes. > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > > > > >Just my 2 cent's. > > -- > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49839	From: haecklers	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Water and fry question

I'm totally new at raising betta fry. Right now they're between .5" and .75", a little small for their age but only about a week behind I guess. I've got over 150 in a 10-gallon tank that is probably filled to around 8 gallons. I've read they keep the stocking levels high on fry tanks to make sure all the food gets eaten. What do you fry-raising experts think about when I should divide them up into two tanks? I think they're starting to look a little crowded, but all the food is devoured quickly with none left to rot this way. I have some nerite snails in there who clean up the bottom, too. I'm thinking of putting all the really large ones in a separate tank first, because they're more willing to swim to the food to eat it. Plus I want to keep them out as potential breeders for an F2 spawn. I'm doing 30% water changes every other day and feeding microworms, Walter worms, BBS, Golden Pearls (not their favorite!) and First Bites (only a little). Mostly I'm feeding live right now, but trying to get them to accept the others in case the day comes I don't have enough live foods for them. I have a Grindal worm culture going, but not harvestable yet, and am starting another brine shrimp hatchery and about 1 new micro/Walter worm culture a day and having trouble keeping up with their appetites! Nobody ever told me the tiny baby fish would have such huge appetites so quickly! And as a beginner I didn't expect to have so many my first try. I guess even at .5", 150 is way high stocking for a 10 gallon tank, huh? That's like 7.5 inches of fish per gallon (if it were filled).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49840	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

From "Water Fluoridation: A Manual for Engineers and Technicians" http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/drinkingwater/Documents/Fluoridation/CDC-Fluo ridationManual-1986.pdf http://tinyurl.com/25834dk "Sodium fluoride (NaF) is a white, odorless material available either as a powder or in the form of crystals of various sizes. It is a salt that in the past was manufactured by adding sulfuric acid to fluorspar and then neutralizing the mixture with sodium carbonate. In 1983 and 1984, the chemical industry changed the way they manufactured sodium fluoride. It is now produced by neutralizing hydrofluosilicic acid with caustic soda (NaOH). . . ." And ". . . The pH (hydrogen ion concentration) of a sodium fluoride solution varies with the type and amount of impurities, but solutions prepared from the usual grades of sodium fluoride exhibit a nearly neutral pH (approximately 7.6). . . . Approximately 19 pounds of sodium fluoride will add 1 ppm of fluoride to 1 million gallons of water." The hydrofluosilicic acid is a base ingredient in make one of the fluorides that is commonly used in fluoridating water. The end product is 97-98% pure and has a pH on the base side of neutral pH. Also, so little is used, it does not affect the pH of water to a normally measured amount. The impurities one may find in the end product are water, free acid or alkali, sodium silicofluoride, sulfites, and iron. Hydrofluosilicic acid is, indeed a by-product of a manufacturing process, specifically the grinding of phosphorus rock that is then treated with sulfuric acid which forms a gas. The gas, reacting with water, forms hydrofluosilicic acid. This is then neutralized with sodium carbonate producing sodium silicofluoride, which has a pH of 3.0-4.0. Using 14 pounds to a million gallons of water produces a 1 ppm solution. Again, this is not enough to noticeably change the pH of the water. I can go on, but this should suffice to say that I do not see the validity of the point you are trying to make. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of haecklers Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Betta is sick? I've done a lot of research on fluoride (aside from fish keeping). The fluoride most often used is hydrofluorosilicic acid. It is extremely corrosive and adds greatly to the need for maintenance and number of leaks in underground supply pipes, along with equipment failure. And it is, indeed, a byproduct of several industries and they harvest it from their smokestacks. Pharmaceutical grade fluoride would be far too expensive to use in such a widespread application. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > I do not know where you are getting you information, but the fluoride you > describe would not be approved for public consumption > > It is not the fluoride that eats the pipes, but the acidity of the water, > whether a natural acidity of the water or as a result of the treatment > process. The compound used is to raise the pH of the water without otherwise > changing its chemistry, and also has the benefit of coating the pipes in the > process. The addition of this compound is not a haphazard thing, but a > calculation of a certain amount based on the raw water measurements. > > In a municipal system the water qualities that we measure can vary from day > to day based more on the water source being used rather than the treatments > made at the water treatment plant. River water is not the same as reservoir > water, which is not the same as well water. Around here, the water can come > from a river or a reservoir, each with its own properties. > > \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49841	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: My Betta is sick?

Ray, Sorry, I got sidetracked by haecklers' post in this thread and needed to do some research. When you said that you had not seen anything written about removing the nitrifying bacteria, I presumes that you were talking about something written in text, an article or a book somewhere. I had never seen that either, and was merely pointing out the fallacy of that statement (removing the bacteria). Rereading your post, it also occurs to me that you mean, in all likelihood, reading something in this thread to that topic. I think you know that I would not castigate you without good reason <g>, and in doing so would fully cite why. Since this notion goes around from time to time, I think we can spend some time quashing it. Merry Christmas! To you and your family. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Betta is sick? \\Steve//, I'm posting this with the understanding that you won't see it until you get back from work (enjoy your day). I don't know if you're replying to anything I've said -- or as a general message of what some others have said) as old wive's tales) -- which could ne connected with something I've said, but if you're responding directly to what I've written below, I'm afraid you've entirely missed my point. But I don't consider you as misreading someone's message, unless you briefed over it too fast -- or perhaps you're adding the Charles' point of some people believing such wives' tales. Anyway, as for the removal of nitrifying bacteria with water changes, may I go on record in stating that I'VE never said that, although obviously there will always be a token few Nitrosomas and Nitrobacters that are temporarily residing in the water column at any moment -- which is how they can eventually spread to all solid surfaces in the tank. If there are any incidental nitrifying bacteria in the water column at the time of the water change, and get removed as a consequence of the change, their loss is very minimal as -- as we both know -- for all intents and purposes, these bacteria mostly colonize onto the physical solids in the tank, i.e., the inside glass, the gravel, any plants and/or ornaments, the rocks and the filter media including the filter's inside surfaces and any hoses. For this reason, they will not be removed via water changes, even if those water changes are 100%. Ongoing complete water changes though, will ensure the elimination of all but a trace of the organic waste products, both from the water column and from the aquarium's bottom or substrate, rendering the aquarium relatively free of these needed nutrients that these nitrifying bacteria need to use for their life processes. Such a minimum amount of these nutrients being available for these bacteria will be counter-productive in maintaining any kind of large populations of these bacteria, certainly curtailing their multiplication since they'll be starved of their food. You're quite correct -- any loss of free-floating bacteria removed with water changes will not affect the effect of others, most of which are left behind as attached to the aquarium's innere surfaces. But, if 100% water changes are regularly done as the norm, and done with enough frequency so as to maintain the water column at all time as being free from any contaminents (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc.), which is this method's purpose, there will be too little of these organic waste nutrients ever left behind for the development of any large bacteria populations. They simply will not thrive, and at best, they may just barely survive in limited numbers. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo" <steve@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > This is one of those old wife's tales that rears up every once in a while. I > know that this has come up on this list previously, but I am not about to > search for it--I'm running behind schedule and I have a very full day at > work today--no early leaving for me. I hear it every one in a while brought > up in other venues as well, particularly if there are novices about. > > I have no doubt that there are probably nitrifying bacteria removed with > every water change, but that there are none that live strictly as free > floating bacteria--they are just looking for a place to attach themselves > to. Any loss of bacteria through a water change should not affect the effect > of the others who are left behind on surfaces in the aquarium. > > \\Steve// > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 5:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: My Betta is sick? > > > Charles, > > I haven't yet read of anyone stating the changing out water remove > the good Bacteria (and Protozoa?) that maintains the Nitrogen Cycle -- > unless I missed it. If, by chance though, you're referring to my statement > when I said, concerning aquariums receiving frequent complete water changes, > that since this tank's water will obviously > contain perpetually very little amounts of DOS (Dissolved Organic Solids) at > any one time, there may be too few nutrients (read: DOC's -- dissolved > organic carbons/compounds) in the form of organic waste products present to > support populations of nitrifying bacteria. In other words, with > perpetually little (or none) amounts of ammonia ever being present (and then > also, little to no amounts of nitrite available not having been broken down > due from ammonia due to the latter compound's absence), that the > circumstances of no organic waste products being available as nutrients for > these Bacteria would keep these populations at a very minimum -- NOT that > changing out the water would either physically remove them nor eliminate > them in any other manner. The more pristine conditions though, would > extremely curtail the beneficial bacteria's multiplication in a way that it > would severely limit these Bacteria's populations, having been starved out > of more populous numbers of them -- especially when these 100% water changes > (complete removal of original water) are accompanied (of necessity) in the > process of complete water removal, by the complete removal of undissolved > organic waste products -- leaving a complete absence of these types of > nutrients. > > Granted, these autotrophic aerobic nitrifying Bacteria inhabit every bit of > solid surface area within the water column, and especially so within such > apparati as filters where more copius amounts of oxygen-rich water > continually flow by them. Still, their life requirements are such that they > need at least a minimum amount of nutrients to sustain them and even more > nutrients to promote their multiplication. > > In nature, while there is seldom a build up of nutrients in any one given > quantity of river water flowing past any one given point, any nutrients > passing that point are in addition to any previous ones, are infinite as a > result of being constant and offer additional nutrition for the resident > nitrifying bacteria as a result of the water's enduring flow -- even while > this bacteria too is kept at low population since these nutrient levels are > never much more than minimal. On the other hand, the enclosed aquarium > having a near zero amount of organic waste nutrition for these Bacteria to > subsist on as the tank experiences 100% water changes, have a finite amount > of any such nutrients present if the Bacteria are fortunate (except perhaps > for any small amount of organic waste being given of by fish in between the > 100% water changes -- which may amount to extremely little, depending on the > frequency of these water changes. Nature doesn't scrub the rocks, but > nature ensures to keep these bacteria in exceedingly small numbers -- > compared to such larger populations as to what's found in the home > aquarium's filter when more nutrients are added to an enclosed environment > daily. Nature never "overfeeds," nor does nature stock itself to the limits > of it's environment. Nature never generates an abundance of any types of > nutrition -- even the nutrition (as organic waste matter) required for > nitrifying Bacteria, when considering there is never any occasion for a > central location of any build-up. > > Ray > > > > --- AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > > > > I'll say it again. > > Read: > > The temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > > > Someone said that changing out the water removes > > the good Bacteria and Protozoa that maintains the > > Nitrogen cycle. That is just somebody's wild > > guess. The Bacteria and Protozoa that affect the > > nitrogen cycle lives on the surfaces of the stuff > > inside the tank. What are all those Bio-balls in > > the filters for anyway? Why would we want huge > > surface areas for our drip filtration system? > > That's where the bugs live. Think about it Nature > > changes the water in rivers moment by moment but > > She doesn't scrub the rocks, sticks, plant roots, > > etc. > > > > > > As a glass cage goes through its life, it > > accumulates stuff dissolved in the water. Chemist > > call this total dissolved solids. Some of it is > > organic (non-conductive) and some of it is > > inorganic (conductive). As we feed the fish they > > excrete and eliminate what we feed them into the > > water. Some of that dissolves some doesn't and > > falls to the bottom of the cage. If there is > > gravel or stuff on the bottom of the cage, some > > of the digested food may be eaten by the Protozoa > > and Bacteria present in the gravel. These bugs > > also excrete and eliminate just like the fish do > > but their products are almost always soluble in > > the water. So the Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) > > build up. The process is the life in the Glass > > Cage. > > > > If one takes out 20 or 10% of the water and > > replaces it then 80 - 90 % of the TDS remains > > behind. The build up continues and the small % of > > removal doesn't touch the gross amount that only > > a complete water change can bring about. The same > > thing about the next small water change, and the > > next, etc. The TDS grows to an equilibrium level > > that is way above what was there to begin with. > > The fish become accustom to the pollution until > > something dies, a plant, a fish or what ever and > > the scale is tipped and Ammonium and/or Nitrites > > skyrocket. Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial > > boom. It points to excess nutrients in the water > > and just plain pollution. > > > > Sorry about your loss. > > > > Read over the above explanation of why deep > > frequent water changes are really important. > > Figure a way you can have change water Chlorine > > free and about the same temperature, pH and > > dissolved solids ready to do 80 to 90% water > > changes every 7 to 10 days. The fish's health and > > the health of the tank will show for your efforts. > > > > Charles H > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > > > Well, I certainly do. I changed dozens of > > liter glass Coke bottles every other day for 12 > > years raising classic Bettas in the '70's - > > '80's. I still do for my Killifish. The > > temperature and water chemistry MUST be the same > > and nothing but flushing the toilet happens. > > > > Pop eye is due to a serious bacterial boom. It > > points to excess nutrients in the water and just > > plain pollution. The tank needs to be cleaned. It > > may be too late for the fish but it is a good > > time to learn about the septic tank nature of our > > fish tanks. There needs to be good bacteria and > > protozoa present on a large surface area in the > > tank to help keep the Ammonia and Nitrites in > > check but by themselves only water changes really > > make the difference. > > > > The most prolific breeders change enormous %'s of > > their tank water. Keep the water clean and fresh > > and the fish can do their best. > > -- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49842	From: kuradi8	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: Renamed: Vacuuming

Cool! I didn't know such a thing existed. I've never seen hard plastic air line hose. That's why I cobbled my siphon together out of things I had around the house. ~Kai > > Ray wrote: > > Kai, > > There's no need to use a chopstick and a length of flexible air line hose, when hard/rigid clear plastic air line hose is available. It's slightly smaller in diameter than flexible airline and can be inserted into it -- so all's you need a a length of this at least as high as the tank, with your regular air line running from it's top to a bucket. It's MUCH MUCH easier to use in syphoning of the bottom of a small tank than it is trying to use flexible air line, and it does away with having to use a chopstick and tying flexible air line to it. It comes in either a 30" length or a 36" length, I forget which. I still have one new piece that I haven't cut yet, so I'll get a measurement on it. I use them, cut to my needed size, for keeping the airstones at the bottom of gallon brine shrimp hatching jars and just clip it to the mouth of the jar with a clothes pin. > > Ray > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Here's a suggestion: Using a rubber band, secure a siphon (I used a length of air line hose) to something like a long chopstick and vacuum the poop off the bottom. That way, the water changes "from the bottom, up" instead of "from the top, down." > > > > I also find that gravel is difficult in a "small" desktop tank so I don't have any in my Betta tanks. Mine are also appx 1.5g each and Mom's is a 2.5g. Each also has a potted plant. I used a plastic party cup, filled it with substrate, planted an Amazon Sword in each and topped it with a handful of gravel to keep the fine stuff in place. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Villandra wrote: > > > > > > I kept mine in a gallon and a half container, and changed it all at once. It was the only way to really get the poop out of the bottom, and that problem only got worse with gravel in the bottom. > > > > > > SNIPPED > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49843	From: ryf_raph	Date: 12/23/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

Hi Laurie, Local club meetings & auctions are great places to get Live plants at a bargain, plus they are almost guaranteed to be true Aquatic plants. I have a lot of extra plants too, if interested. You can use Flourite by itself, but it should work just as well mixed into your gravel. I believe Laterite can also be used alone, but is more commonly put on the bottom, hence the Brand name "First Layer", but I have some mixed in to my substrate. I have Eco Complete as my main substrate, but it is about 7 years old so I mixed Flourite in with it recently. If your Filter is a Canister, that will help minimize CO2 loss. H.O.T. types tend to disturb the surface too much, causing an increased loss of CO2. Bio-Wheels are great (I've met Dr.Tim @ SVAS & PCCA Meetings - he is the Inventor) but forget about trying to inject CO2 with a BioWheel. A great Alternative to CO2 is Flourish Excel (it works with CO2 as well), Tom Barr in Sacramento (the Plant Guru) makes his own and sells it for $20/gallon at the local meetings around the Bay Area. Also check out SFBAAPS @ http://www.sfbaaps.org/ they hold meetings in different cities at members homes and usually have a lot of Free plants. I used DIY COR for several years very successfully. I use two 3-Liter bottles with Sugar/Yeast/Water mix and a small power head as a diffuser. Hope that helps, Aaron --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "environmom95112" <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > Hi there, > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 cardinals and a glass cat. > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted tank to be successful. > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49844	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/24/2010
Subject: Re: Newbie questions on planted tanks

I just had one thing I wanted to add. Glass cat's are a schooling fish, and if you don't have minimum of 3 of them in a tank they will slowly wither and die, they require other glass cats for them to thrive. Also I have Walstad setup tanks (soil under my gravel) and my plants do wonderful (they grow too well, I have to trim them every week or they take over!). Amber On 12/23/2010 9:13 PM, ryf_raph wrote: > > Hi Laurie, > > Local club meetings & auctions are great places to get Live plants at > a bargain, plus they are almost guaranteed to be true Aquatic plants. > > I have a lot of extra plants too, if interested. > > You can use Flourite by itself, but it should work just as well mixed > into your gravel. I believe Laterite can also be used alone, but is > more commonly put on the bottom, hence the Brand name "First Layer", > but I have some mixed in to my substrate. > > I have Eco Complete as my main substrate, but it is about 7 years old > so I mixed Flourite in with it recently. > > If your Filter is a Canister, that will help minimize CO2 loss. > H.O.T. types tend to disturb the surface too much, causing an > increased loss of CO2. Bio-Wheels are great (I've met Dr.Tim @ SVAS & > PCCA Meetings - he is the Inventor) but forget about trying to inject > CO2 with a BioWheel. > > A great Alternative to CO2 is Flourish Excel (it works with CO2 as > well), Tom Barr in Sacramento (the Plant Guru) makes his own and sells > it for $20/gallon at the local meetings around the Bay Area. > > Also check out SFBAAPS @ http://www.sfbaaps.org/ they hold meetings in > different cities at members homes and usually have a lot of Free plants. > > I used DIY COR for several years very successfully. I use two 3-Liter > bottles with Sugar/Yeast/Water mix and a small power head as a diffuser. > > Hope that helps, > Aaron > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "environmom95112" > <environmom95112@...> wrote: > > > > Hi there, > > I'm a newbie to planted tanks, but have raised fish for over 30 years. > > > > I have been doing some research and am somewhat confused. Here's my > set-up: 20 gallon tank which has been set up for a couple years. It > has about 2 inches of black gravel, a piece of driftwood, and a few > plants. Filter is fluval, and lighting is power compact, single bulb. > > > > I just went crazy yesterday and bought 9 plants, and now I want them > to thrive! I know I did it backwards;) Should have prepared FIRST, but > it was a total impulse buy. Oh, and the fish have dwindled to 2 > cardinals and a glass cat. > > > > Here are my questions: Is there a difference between laterite and > flourite? I had used laterite many years ago and my plants did not do > well. I found a site that said to use Seachem Flourite, but does not > say to add gravel. Should I not use gravel? > > > > Is it necessary to buy an expensive CO2 system? I would rather not > spend my kids' college money on a fish tank, but I want my planted > tank to be successful. > > > > Where can one buy plants less expensively than the local fish store? > I paid 5 dollars a piece! > > > > Being unemployed has it's benefits - it has given me a break to > renew my hobbies, but now I really have to stick to a budget! > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49845	From: Ray	Date: 12/24/2010
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings

A Merry Christmas to All and to ALL a Good Night ! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49846	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: OT: How Reindeer Fly (BBC)

Merry Christmas to all! From an impeccable source, the BBC, comes this video explaining flying reindeer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkCS9ePWuLU \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49847	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Merry Christmas to all!

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3465&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_23_2010&utm_term=10_festive_fish_for_Christmas&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/3a8594g [Pictures at link] 10 festive fish for Christmas 10 festive fish for Christmas Copyright (c) David Burdick, Creative Commons With Christmas almost upon us once again, I felt a trawl through appropriately named fish might be in order - if nothing else it will be more interesting than the Queen's speech, and hopefully almost as amusing as the jokes in a Christmas cracker. Snowflake moray eel To kick things off, and help set the wintry scene, how about Echidna nebulosa, the Snowflake moray eel? This wonderful marine looks very dashing in what looks much like the same pattern used on the novelty socks I got last year. Thanks mum. Lionfish, copyright (c) Brian Gratwicke, Creative Commons Turkey fish, Pterois volitans More often called Lionfish, I think it's other more seasonally appropriate epithet of Turkey fish is more suited. Just don't try stuffing one with sage and onion, they won't like it and they're venomous. Apologies to the vegetarians among us - I couldn't find a nut roast fish anywhere. Thorny tinselfish, copyright (c) NOAA, Creative Commons Thorny tinselfish In an attempt to add a little sparkle to our festive scene, how about Grammicolepis brachiusculus? Known as the Thorny tinselfish, this shiny glittering beauty will really help dress the tree in the absence of bauble fish, (I did consider barbel but that's a bad pun too far even for me). Christmas tree worm, copyright (c) Nick Hobgood, Creative Commons Christmas tree worm The problem with trees is that they can be hard to come by in an ocean environment. Norway spruce just doesn't thrive when immersed in saltwater and I think those plastic ones are a bit tacky to be honest, so how about Spirobrancheus giganteus, the Christmas tree worm? OK, so it's not a fish, but it's available in a range of cheerful colours, it shouldn't drop needles all over the floor and best of all it won't end up sitting at the end of your garden until eventually you decide to set fire to it the following November under the feeble excuse it's bonfire night. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49848	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Weird fish of the week: Kroyer's deep-sea angler fish

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3472&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_23_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_of_the_week:_Kroyers_deep-sea_angler_fish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/3y62unm [Pictures available at link] Weird fish of the week: Kroyer's deep-sea angler fish There seem to be few fish from the ocean's depths that don't fit the 'weird fish' epithet and Kroyer's deep-sea angler fish, Ceratias holboelli, certainly shows no sign of bucking the trend. Also given the common name of 'sea-devils', these abyssal oddballs look rather like an under-inflated balloon after a fight with a porcupine. Seemingly made up largely of a huge, gaping mouth filled with equally enormous dentition they spend their time lurking in the deep sea, living up to their angler moniker by attracting unfortunate prey towards their cavernous gape with the help of a bioluminescent lure on the end of a stalk attached to their head. The scientific name Ceratias comes from this lure, being derived from the Greek word 'keras' meaning horn. If the fish isn't weird enough just to look at, it has an even stranger reproductive strategy that it shares with some other angler species. There is a huge difference in size between male and female Ceratias holboelii, females are the largest of their family, growing up to 120cm/4ft while the males seldom exceed 15cm/6in. This discrepancy in size is largely because the males do not feed in the same way as their larger mates. They are in fact parasitic upon the females, and are only free swimming for as long as it takes to find a suitable host using powerful olfactory organs to hunt them via a trail of pheromones before they starve. Once attached to the female, the male releases an enzyme that helps fuse them together, slowly losing his digestive system, then brain, heart and eyes until he is little more than a pair of gonads ready to supply sperm in response to hormonal changes in the females bloodstream which he is now permanently attached to. More than one male can become attached to a female in this way, meaning she has a selection of mates at hand whenever she is ready to spawn. Why not check out the other Weird fish of the week features? Tripod fish Lumpsucker Ocean sunfish Two-headed arowana Stargazers Giant oarfish Published: Bob Mehen Thursday 23 December 2010, 9:42 am \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49849	From: john Lewis	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Re: Season's Greetings

Hello:    Back at Ya!!!    Have a safe and Wonderful Holiday!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, December 24, 2010 11:59:45 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Season's Greetings   A Merry Christmas to All and to ALL a Good Night ! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49850	From: anniegurl66	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: hi!!

hi, i'm annie, new to this group. i have a question. i bought 2 female betas that were in the same tank at petsmart. they have lived together since before i got them in july. well just recently, one was starting to nip at the other, taking some of her fins off. i have them separated, and was wondering..do fins grow back on betas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49851	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Re: hi!!

There is a reason why bettas (notice the double T) are also known as Siamese Fighting Fish. As a species, they are very pugnacious with conspecifics (other fish of the same species). It is true that the males, in particular, are known for this behavior, but it has not completely bypassed the females of the species. The only option you have now is to separate the two fish by placing one in a separate tank either by itself or with other fish. The fins should grow back, unless they have been chewed down to the body. Fish do not behave the same in a shop tank as they do in a home tank. In your case, there was a thankful of females that were disrupted on a regular basis when one of them was sold. The fish do not have a chance to set an order of dominance or have a real chance to start fighting as there are no real markers to establish a territory. \\Steve// -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anniegurl66 Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2010 6:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hi!! hi, i'm annie, new to this group. i have a question. i bought 2 female betas that were in the same tank at petsmart. they have lived together since before i got them in july. well just recently, one was starting to nip at the other, taking some of her fins off. i have them separated, and was wondering..do fins grow back on betas?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49852	From: safirezprincess@yahoo.com	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Re: hi!!

Welcome. The fins will grow back but you should do extra pwc and be prepared to medicate if she gets an infection. I little salt in the water eouldnt hurt either imo. Bren Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "anniegurl66" <anniegurl66@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 11:24:49 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] hi!! hi, i'm annie, new to this group. i have a question. i bought 2 female betas that were in the same tank at petsmart. they have lived together since before i got them in july. well just recently, one was starting to nip at the other, taking some of her fins off. i have them separated, and was wondering..do fins grow back on betas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49853	From: haecklers	Date: 12/25/2010
Subject: Re: hi!!

What I'm seeing with my bettas is that if the fin is just torn it heals within a few days, but if some of the rays have been removed (like a more serious bite) they'll heal much more slowly, weeks if it is a large chunk, rather than days if it is just a tear. None of mine have ever gotten fin rot or had any complications from these injuries (they were being bitten by a large guppy - I couldn't figure out where the injuries were coming from!) Just make sure your water quality stays good, don't overfeed, and live/frozen/freeze-dried foods may help. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, safirezprincess@... wrote: > > Welcome. The fins will grow back but you should do extra pwc and be prepared to medicate if she gets an infection. I little salt in the water eouldnt hurt either imo. Bren > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "anniegurl66" <anniegurl66@...> > Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 11:24:49 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] hi!! > > hi, i'm annie, new to this group. i have a question. i bought 2 female betas that were in the same tank at petsmart. they have lived together since before i got them in july. well just recently, one was starting to nip at the other, taking some of her fins off. i have them separated, and was wondering..do fins grow back on betas? > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49854	From: r22scaife@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2010
Subject: Re: Weird fish of the week: Kroyer's deep-sea angler fish

This was very informative. Thanks! !! Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android phone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49855	From: Noura	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: New Snail

Hi, I just purchased a snail, I don't know what species, it's 2" bright yellow. I'm planning on putting it in the African cichlids tank, where no pleco neither buttom feeders survived before. Do I need to quarantine it first? If yes, for how long? I'm currently acclimating it in a floating plastic bag. Waiting for your replies, thanks! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49856	From: Noura	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: Re: [*** SPAM ***] RE: New Snail

Another question to be added: How do you tell if your snail is an Apple snail or Mystery snail? From: Noura [mailto:n-taweel@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:12 PM To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com' Subject: New Snail Hi, I just purchased a snail, I don't know what species, it's 2" bright yellow. I'm planning on putting it in the African cichlids tank, where no pleco neither buttom feeders survived before. Do I need to quarantine it first? If yes, for how long? I'm currently acclimating it in a floating plastic bag. Waiting for your replies, thanks! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49857	From: anniegurl66	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: hi

hi everyone, i'm annie and new to this group. i have a 10 gallon tank, and soon will be getting a 29 gallon. i love my lil ones, they make me laugh when they play with the air bubbles, and relax me when i'm stressed out. my dream fish is the elephant nose, and hopefully i will be getting one. i've read about them, and have done my research, but i was wondering if anyone here has one or had one who can give me any helpful tips on this amazing animal. thank you, annie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49858	From: john Lewis	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: Re: hi

Hello Annie:    Welcome to the group.  You will find top-notch info in here for sure.  As far as Elephant-Nose Fish (Gnathonemus petersii) goes they are really interesting fish but can be extremely shy.  You need to make sure they have lots of hiding places and maybe even create a darker swimming area where they feel secure.  I achieved this by making a driftwood partial barrier with several tall plants between the front and back part of the tank.  It worked out well and the Elephant nose spent lots of time back there though occasionally it came out front where I could easily watch it feel around the ground with it's electrically enhanced "nose" (actually an extended lower lip) to scare up live tubifex worms and bloodworms.  They certainly are worth the extra work in setting the proper environment.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: anniegurl66 <anniegurl66@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, December 28, 2010 8:37:05 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] hi   hi everyone, i'm annie and new to this group. i have a 10 gallon tank, and soon will be getting a 29 gallon. i love my lil ones, they make me laugh when they play with the air bubbles, and relax me when i'm stressed out. my dream fish is the elephant nose, and hopefully i will be getting one. i've read about them, and have done my research, but i was wondering if anyone here has one or had one who can give me any helpful tips on this amazing animal. thank you, annie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49859	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/28/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail

Snails usually don't survive well in African cichlid tanks. They eat pond snails and ramshorns by the dozens. They killed my zebra nerites in a matter of months. I no longer put snails in mbuna tanks. What do survive are bristlenose plecos about 60% of the time and synodontis. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New Snail Hi, I just purchased a snail, I don't know what species, it's 2" bright yellow. I'm planning on putting it in the African cichlids tank, where no pleco neither buttom feeders survived before. Do I need to quarantine it first? If yes, for how long? I'm currently acclimating it in a floating plastic bag. Waiting for your replies, thanks! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49860	From: Noura	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail

-Does make any difference if my A.Cichlids are the "peaceful" Yellow Labs? -Can this snail reproduce if there are no other snails with it? "it's either an apple or mystery snail, I don't know the difference" -If the Labs started attacking, is it safe for live plants to put the snail in a planted tank? Thanks for your help Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Snails usually don't survive well in African cichlid tanks. They eat pond > snails and ramshorns by the dozens. They killed my zebra nerites in a > matter of months. I no longer put snails in mbuna tanks. > > > > What do survive are bristlenose plecos about 60% of the time and synodontis. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Snail > > > > > > Hi, > > I just purchased a snail, I don't know what species, it's 2" bright yellow. > I'm planning on putting it in the African cichlids tank, where no pleco > neither buttom feeders survived before. Do I need to quarantine it first? If > yes, for how long? I'm currently acclimating it in a floating plastic bag. > Waiting for your replies, thanks! > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49861	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail

It’s not aggression, it’s curiousity. They are attracted to the antennae and eye stalks. Once those are nipped off the snail does not do well. They also continuously knocked my nerites off the glass/rocks and onto their backs. They do not turn over well and need to feed constantly. I’d come home every night and flip them back but eventually they did not make it. I don’t know anything about the larger snails regarding reproduction or plant-eating. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 2:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Snail -Does make any difference if my A.Cichlids are the "peaceful" Yellow Labs? -Can this snail reproduce if there are no other snails with it? "it's either an apple or mystery snail, I don't know the difference" -If the Labs started attacking, is it safe for live plants to put the snail in a planted tank? Thanks for your help Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Snails usually don't survive well in African cichlid tanks. They eat pond > snails and ramshorns by the dozens. They killed my zebra nerites in a > matter of months. I no longer put snails in mbuna tanks. > > > > What do survive are bristlenose plecos about 60% of the time and synodontis. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:12 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Snail > > > > > > Hi, > > I just purchased a snail, I don't know what species, it's 2" bright yellow. > I'm planning on putting it in the African cichlids tank, where no pleco > neither buttom feeders survived before. Do I need to quarantine it first? If > yes, for how long? I'm currently acclimating it in a floating plastic bag. > Waiting for your replies, thanks! > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49862	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail

Mystery snails are just a form of apple snails (there are several types of apple snails). A good site for information on all types of Apple snails is: http://www.applesnail.net/ That site should help you find out exactly what type of apple snail you have. It sounds like it's possibly a mystery snail (they are the most colorful of all the apple snails, coming in many colors). I also don't think the snail will survive, often their antennae are mistaken for a worm and they get eaten by other fish, then if the fish thinks it's tasty it'll keep trying to eat the snail, the snail may eventually give up if it's harassed for too long. Amber On 12/28/2010 10:44 PM, Noura wrote: > > > -Does make any difference if my A.Cichlids are the "peaceful" Yellow > Labs? > > -Can this snail reproduce if there are no other snails with it? "it's > either an apple or mystery snail, I don't know the difference" > > -If the Labs started attacking, is it safe for live plants to put the > snail in a planted tank? > > Thanks for your help > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > wrote: > > > > Snails usually don't survive well in African cichlid tanks. They eat > pond > > snails and ramshorns by the dozens. They killed my zebra nerites in a > > matter of months. I no longer put snails in mbuna tanks. > > > > > > > > What do survive are bristlenose plecos about 60% of the time and > synodontis. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:12 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Snail > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I just purchased a snail, I don't know what species, it's 2" bright > yellow. > > I'm planning on putting it in the African cichlids tank, where no pleco > > neither buttom feeders survived before. Do I need to quarantine it > first? If > > yes, for how long? I'm currently acclimating it in a floating > plastic bag. > > Waiting for your replies, thanks! > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49863	From: haecklers	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail

I'm trying MTS snails (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) in my cichlid tank. Since they hide in the substrate during the day and come out at night to eat the algae off the walls (or stay in the substrate eating mulm) I'm hopeful that they'll reproduce to large numbers before the cichlids know they are there. The cichlids do sift the sand looking for edibles, but only in a few areas at a time so I really hope the MTS I put in there make it! I had a nerite in there for awhile but it was always trying to escape. It would stay above the water line during the day and go down at night to clean the walls. After awhile it disappeared so I think is probably dried out under some furniture somewhere. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > It's not aggression, it's curiousity. They are attracted to the antennae > and eye stalks. Once those are nipped off the snail does not do well. They > also continuously knocked my nerites off the glass/rocks and onto their > backs. They do not turn over well and need to feed constantly. I'd come > home every night and flip them back but eventually they did not make it. > > > > I don't know anything about the larger snails regarding reproduction or > plant-eating. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 2:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New Snail > > > > > > > -Does make any difference if my A.Cichlids are the "peaceful" Yellow Labs? > > -Can this snail reproduce if there are no other snails with it? "it's either > an apple or mystery snail, I don't know the difference" > > -If the Labs started attacking, is it safe for live plants to put the snail > in a planted tank? > > Thanks for your help > Noura > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > Snails usually don't survive well in African cichlid tanks. They eat pond > > snails and ramshorns by the dozens. They killed my zebra nerites in a > > matter of months. I no longer put snails in mbuna tanks. > > > > > > > > What do survive are bristlenose plecos about 60% of the time and > synodontis. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:12 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Snail > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I just purchased a snail, I don't know what species, it's 2" bright > yellow. > > I'm planning on putting it in the African cichlids tank, where no pleco > > neither buttom feeders survived before. Do I need to quarantine it first? > If > > yes, for how long? I'm currently acclimating it in a floating plastic bag. > > Waiting for your replies, thanks! > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49864	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/29/2010
Subject: LED Pricing Lower?

It looks like the pricing of LED lights is coming down. Here are some I have seen in their print catalog, but also appear online. This first shows a 20% discount from the catalog. (I am sure that Amber is going to grab some of this stuff up what with Alaska now in their 6 month long night.) It is a 8.5" wand for accent lighting in the aquarium and is available in four colors. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19788&prodid=39592&catid=1477 http://tinyurl.com/2cbf93r Next we have the Ario, which has several models with the Ario1 for 1-13 gallon tanks, up to the Ario 4 which is said to be suitable for tanks from 40-80 gallons This page shows the Ario 2/3 available at the same discount as listed in the catalog. Colors available are green, blue, red, and, on a few models, a color mix, or moonlight. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578%203669%2012911%2012216&pcatid=12216&ProdTab=2 http://tinyurl.com/26c2xn2 \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49865	From: Noura	Date: 12/30/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail

I was wondering why do I see more empty MTS shells in the cichlids tank more than any of my other tanks, now I know why! The MTS in my tanks do reproduce well, and I like them. There were just a dozen of them in the cichlids tank (with 4 yellow labs) and they became much more in a few months, so I do think you'll have a reasonable number of survivors. Noura <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/49863;_ylc=X3oDMTJybDU1bm g5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzQ5OD YzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyOTM3MDczNDE-> Re: New Snail Posted by: "haecklers" <mailto:haecklers@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20New%20Snail> haecklers@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/haecklers> haecklers Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:25 am (PST) I'm trying MTS snails (Malaysian Trumpet Snails) in my cichlid tank. Since they hide in the substrate during the day and come out at night to eat the algae off the walls (or stay in the substrate eating mulm) I'm hopeful that they'll reproduce to large numbers before the cichlids know they are there. The cichlids do sift the sand looking for edibles, but only in a few areas at a time so I really hope the MTS I put in there make it! I had a nerite in there for awhile but it was always trying to escape. It would stay above the water line during the day and go down at night to clean the walls. After awhile it disappeared so I think is probably dried out under some furniture somewhere. --- In <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > It's not aggression, it's curiousity. They are attracted to the antennae > and eye stalks. Once those are nipped off the snail does not do well. They > also continuously knocked my nerites off the glass/rocks and onto their > backs. They do not turn over well and need to feed constantly. I'd come > home every night and flip them back but eventually they did not make it. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49866	From: Noura	Date: 12/30/2010
Subject: Re: New Snail

Ok , then I'll move it to the community tank, I think it will have a much better chance there (Tetras, clown loaches, Pleco) Thanks Noura <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/49862;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYjc3Zm pqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzQ5OD YyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyOTM3MDczNDE-> Re: New Snail Posted by: "Amber Berglund" arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20New%20Snail> barnsten <http://profiles.yahoo.com/barnsten> Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:43 am (PST) Mystery snails are just a form of apple snails (there are several types of apple snails). A good site for information on all types of Apple snails is: http://www.applesnail.net/ That site should help you find out exactly what type of apple snail you have. It sounds like it's possibly a mystery snail (they are the most colorful of all the apple snails, coming in many colors). I also don't think the snail will survive, often their antennae are mistaken for a worm and they get eaten by other fish, then if the fish thinks it's tasty it'll keep trying to eat the snail, the snail may eventually give up if it's harassed for too long. Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49867	From: LindaS	Date: 12/30/2010
Subject: Snails

I was thinking about putting a snail in my Betta's bowl for company. Why do we always think they need company? Anyway, a friend told me she got a snail for her aquarium, and it killed all the fish within a week. It had a disease of some sort I guess. So, I don't know what the answer is. Thanks to the person who said the antena might be taken for worms. I had no intent of torturing the poor creature. My Betta will be a lone Betta. LOL! LinS

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49868	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2010
Subject: Snail lights up to deter predators

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3487&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_30_2010&utm_term=Snail_lights_up_to_deter_predators&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2b9tbvz Snail lights up to deter predators Snail lights up to deter predators Copyright (c) Scripps Institution of Oceanography, UC San Diego Some marine snails glow to scare off predators, but few do it more effectively than Hinea brasiliana (which belong to a group of snails commonly known as clusterwinks). This snail's remarkable capability to amplify and scatter light throughout its shell, an otherwise opaque object, has become the subject a study to be published in a forthcoming issue of the Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences. In this study, authors Dimitri Deheyn and Nerida Wilson collected live snails from Australia and analysed the spectral properties of the bioluminescence in both snails from which the shells had been cut away, as well as from those with intact shells (although they had to drill holes in the shells to chemically stimulate the snails to glow). They also analysed the shells for their light transmission and diffusion capacities. Lastly,they experimentally assessed the conditions under which the snails could be mechanically stimulated to glow by introducing other organisms (amphipods, prawns, poychaete worms and other snails) into the same covered petri dish where live, freshly collected snails had been placed, and recording the light production patterns produced by the snails. The authors found that the shells were able to transmit 0.6% of blue-green light (the snails bioluminesce with a greenish light). Although this seems like a very small amount, it is unexpectedly high for such a relatively thick material (it is eight times higher than equivalent standard diffuser reference material). The authors also found that the shell was able to amplify and diffuse the light in such a manner that blue-green light from a discrete source was propagated homogenously through the entire shell, generating an illuminated diffuse area more than 10 times greater in comparison to standard diffuser material. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49869	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2010
Subject: Inspirational aquariums: Iwagumi set-up

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3484&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_30_2010&utm_term=Inspirational_aquariums:_Iwagumi_set-up&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/28xxqcv Inspirational aquariums: Iwagumi set-up This is a style now easily achievable by all hobbyists, and few planted tanks can surpass the classic Japanese concept for impact. An underwater garden, the Iwagumi aquascape is all about rock formation which should be designed and in place before the tank is filled with water. Invest in proper lighting, fertilisers and CO2 and this 100cm/40" tank could look a part of Japan, but right in your own living room. What you will need 100 x 45 x 45cm/40 x 18 x 18" open top tank and cabinet £400 (approx. $625 US) 100cm/40", four T5 luminaire £350 (approx. $547 US) Inline heater £40 (approx. $62.50 US) External filter £90 (approx. $140.50 US) Pressurised CO2 system £150 (approx. $234.00 US) Glass diffuser, drop checker, filter inlet and outlet £80 (approx. $125.00 US) Soil substrate £50 (approx. $78.00 US) Dragon stone rocks £50 (approx. $78.00 US) Fertilisers £20 (approx. $31.00 US) Plants £50 (approx. $78.00 US) Total: Expect to pay £1,280 (approx. $1998.00 US) [NOTE: Prices were converted from GBP to USD at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ then rounded off. Currency rates vary from day to day, and during the day, so all conversions are approximate. Pricing of needed equipment, plants and other things will vary depending on your source and tax rate. scs] This item first appeared in the June 2010 issue of Practical Fishkeeping magazine. It may not be reproduced without written permission. Published: Practical Fishkeeping Friday 24 December 2010, 10:40 am \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49870	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2010
Subject: Weird fish of the week: Halimeda ghost pipefish

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3488&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=December_30_2010&utm_term=Weird_fish_of_the_week:_Halimeda_ghost_pipefish&utm_content=html http://tinyurl.com/2e4eltr Weird fish of the week: Halimeda ghost pipefish Cryptic camouflage is often the reason for fish looking 'weird', especially when they are removed from the habitat they are evolved to blend into. Take the Halimeda ghost pipefish, Solenostomus halimeda, as a case in point. In an aquarium devoid of the algae it takes the second part of its scientific name from, this fish stands out like Whale shark in a Biorb, but in among a growth of cactus algae it is a near perfect match and extremely hard to spot. Its disguise is so precise that it even mimics the white calcareous dead patches on the plant as well as filamentous algae strands sometimes found growing on the Halimeda algae itself! From the order Syngnathiformes, these strange looking fish are relatives of the seahorses and pipefish and share many similar characteristics - an elongated head, (which in this fish is over half its total length), hardened bony body and generally un-fishlike appearance. They spend most of their lives hidden within large growths of their algal namesake, sucking up any suitably sized passing copepods. Growing to little more than 5cm/2in, the mothers are good parents, carrying fertilised eggs between their pelvic fins that are modified to form a brood pouch until they are ready to hatch. The newly hatched fry are themselves camouflaged to blend in with their algal nursery, with extended dorsal filaments and a more transparent body to blend in with some of the other algae living alongside the Halimeda. --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 49871	From: Steve Szabo	Date: 12/31/2010
Subject: How to Crochet a Coral Reef

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/How-to-Crochet-a-Coral-Reef.html http://tinyurl.com/2667odl How to Crochet a Coral Reef How to Crochet a Coral Reef A ball of yarn-and the work of more than 800 people-could go a long way toward saving endangered sea life * By Jess Righthand * Smithsonian magazine, December 2010 Margaret Wertheim talks about how math and climate change inspired her to start the Hyperbolic Crochet Coral Reef project The Natural History Museum's Baird Auditorium showcases scientists and performers from around the world. One day it might be a lecture on evolution, the next a Puerto Rican dance recital. On this particular rainy fall afternoon, however, the auditorium is quiet-though not for lack of activity. More than 100 women, from young girls to grandmothers, are deftly manipulating crochet hooks, winding together brightly colored yarn, lanyard string, old curtain tassels, plastic bags and even unwound audiocassette tape. As the forms begin to take shape, they reveal frilly, crenulated structures that will be displayed alongside the "Hyperbolic Crochet Coral Reef" exhibit, now on view in Natural History's Sant Ocean Hall. "We started off with something very simple, and then we started deviating, morphing the code," says exhibit director Margaret Wertheim, 52, about the coral reef, as she watches the crocheters from the stage. Wertheim, an Australian-born science journalist, first began crocheting with her artist sister Christine in 2003 to try her hand at modeling hyperbolic space-the mind-bending geometry discovered by mathematicians in the early 19th century. Whereas conventional geometry describes shapes on a flat plane, hyperbolic geometry is set on a curved surface-creating configurations that defy the mathematical theorems discovered by Euclid some 2,000 years ago. Variations of hyperbolic space can be found in nature (the wavy edges of sea kelp, for example), but mathematicians scratched their heads trying to find a simple way to fabricate a physical model. Finally, in 1997, mathematician Daina Taimina realized that the crochet stitch that women have used for centuries to create ruffled garments represents this complex geometry. Having grown up in Queensland, where the Great Barrier Reef lies offshore, the Wertheim sisters were astonished to learn that their crocheted models looked a lot like another example of hyperbolic geometry in nature. "We had them sitting on our coffee table," says Wertheim, "and we looked at them and said, 'Oh my gosh, they look like a coral reef. We could crochet a coral reef.'" The exhibit first appeared at Pittsburgh's Andy Warhol Museum in 2007. And wherever it goes, Wertheim encourages the local community to create its own reef. Among the contributors are churches, synagogues, schools, retirement homes, charities and even government agencies. [Be sure to also watch the video.] --------<Continued at link>-------- \\Steve//